# Paris-Nice (spolier, part deux)



## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

If you haven't set your DVR to record today's stage, you should do it now. Just beautiful scenery, amazing roads.

The racing... well... let me just say, yet again, somebody needs to teach Levi how to ride a bike.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

Maybe you should call him up and offer some lessons? 

*(spoken sarcastically without malice, since one can't always tell on the internet)

And yes, the scenery is absurd.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

thechriswebb said:


> Maybe you should call him up and offer some lessons?
> 
> *(spoken sarcastically without malice, since one can't always tell on the internet)
> 
> And yes, the scenery is absurd.


"compared to his peers" seems to be a blatantly obvious prior to most statements concerning pros.......


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

den bakker said:


> "compared to his peers" seems to be a blatantly obvious prior to most statements concerning pros.......


True.

But still... I know plenty of fat non-racers who can pick a better line down a twisty descent... the man was getting gapped from his own teammates' train, fergawdsake. All he had to do was follow their line. 

And this ain't the first time. He blew a GC placing in the Giro a few years back by *****-footing the descents while the rest of the field kept going.


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## avmech (Jun 2, 2011)

Have spent a ton of time in and around the Nice area with work. True on the scenery!!!


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

ouch. thats about all i can say for levi. and tony martin. i guess there is always the tour du suisse.

well, i guess i can also that levi is procyclings version of the cubs. 

their descent reminded me of the poggio a few years ago. was it gerolsteiner (a former levi team) that kept endo-ing and hitting the walls on the way down? they blamed the tires and pressure, which may be true. i know some manufacturers demand they use new products. 
but today it seemed like either something was wrong with levis brakes or he kept looking where he didnt wanna go...

if this were le tour we would be hearing how evil it was for moviestar to keep stringing things out on the front while they tried to chase back on. im not saying they should have, but i can hear people complain about it. in my mind, moviestar did what any team would have done.


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## foofighter (Dec 19, 2008)

that last crash into the police officer wasnt entirely his fault though, he was really at a bad place in the corner when the Omega team was coming out of the blind curve and saw that. The other 2 previous crashes though i dont know what happened but it certainly frazzled him


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

foofighter said:


> that last crash into the police officer wasnt entirely his fault though, he was really at a bad place in the corner when the Omega team was coming out of the blind curve and saw that. The other 2 previous crashes though i dont know what happened but it certainly frazzled him


first he had to brake while taking off the rain jacket and it went into the wheel. Once he got rear-ended. Both descriptions from the team.


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## Gimme Shoulder (Feb 10, 2004)

Cause and effect. The third crash would not have happened were it not for the first two. That is, Levi and the team would not have been in that position otherwise. That's the problem with Levi - he keeps crashing himself into positions that seem to set up a new set of cascading events.


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## triumph.1 (Jun 21, 2011)

Arghhh, I missed the race!


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## gamara (May 20, 2002)

Gimme Shoulder said:


> Cause and effect. The third crash would not have happened were it not for the first two. That is, Levi and the team would not have been in that position otherwise. That's the problem with Levi - he keeps crashing himself into positions that seem to set up a new set of cascading events.


Wow, thats pretty harsh. The 2nd time he was in the front of the pack on the descent when someone from Euskatel crashed into him from behind & broke his bike. Then on the 3rd crash, his team was pacing him back so Levi was the last man in the line. 

Tony Martin & the guy following him barely missed the motorcycle both by unclipping one foot out & skidding barely past the motorcycle. Dries Devyn unfortunately slammed into the motorcycle with Levi slamming into him. So yeah, I guess you're right. Its all Levi's fault!


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## Sylint (Jul 27, 2009)

Creakyknees said:


> True.
> 
> But still... I know plenty of fat non-racers who can pick a better line down a twisty descent... the man was getting gapped from his own teammates' train, fergawdsake. All he had to do was follow their line.
> 
> And this ain't the first time. He blew a GC placing in the Giro a few years back by *****-footing the descents while the rest of the field kept going.



Granted though, he was getting gaped after two wrecks. Whatever that says in it's own right of his descending skills, at that point I could understand his being somewhat cautious.


The third wreck...he was led directly into it by those aforementioned teammates. 1st fall I didn't see...2nd one it looked like he got caught outside and didn't see the turn and boom. (his fault), third I won't blame on him.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

i wouldnt say levi keeps crashing himself outta races. i would say he has had some bad luck, sometimes is poorly positioned and oftentimes just rides wheels rather than attack. but thats a lot of racers. heck, you could say the exact same of cunego.

today was bad luck. he was positioned where he needed to be, until after the second crash. and i dont know what could have been done about the third one. that corner looked pretty blind.and coming up on a previous crash and a moto? seeing that will take your eye off the line and send you straight at it. 

i will say at least he changes teams. not always for the better (gerolsteiner), but at least he makes the slide to try and be THE guy for GC. too bad it doesnt see, he can be a grand tour champion. possible contender? yes. he probably stood a chance before lance 3.0,but at that time he would have been racing for conti. unless conti was france and he was giro or vuelta.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

That motor bike was in a very bad place. He was where most riders would have taken the line around that tight bend at high speeds. This tight bend was also a blind corner. 

I'll give Levi a pass on that one. I think the race organizers should do their best to avoid things like this. Without it, I think Levi could have made it to the bunch before the finish.


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## Gimme Shoulder (Feb 10, 2004)

I never said that the second or third crash was his fault. What I do know is that Levi has a history of finding the pavement at critical times. Sometimes, it appears to be bike handling. Sometimes it just seems to be inattentiveness. I like the guy. I think he's great for cycling. He's a fellow North Cali boy, and we root for him in our household. But even my wife responds with "not again" now when he hits the ground. Today, she called him the Greg Norman of Cycling. (It wasn't always Greg's fault either).


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Gimme Shoulder said:


> I never said that the second or third crash was his fault. What I do know is that Levi has a history of finding the pavement at critical times. Sometimes, it appears to be bike handling. Sometimes it just seems to be inattentiveness. I like the guy. I think he's great for cycling. He's a fellow North Cali boy, and we root for him in our household. But even my wife responds with "not again" now when he hits the ground. Today, she called him the Greg Norman of Cycling. (It wasn't always Greg's fault either).


Any given time, any given place, crashes can and will happen. Hell, Wiggo crashed out of the TdF last year, Boonen had a very rough few years, etc. It happens.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

spade2you said:


> Any given time, any given place, crashes can and will happen. Hell, Wiggo crashed out of the TdF last year, Boonen had a very rough few years, etc. It happens.


ditto. Name a rider who never crashed. I am serious.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

55x11 said:


> ditto. Name a rider who never crashed. I am serious.


who said that? who even implied that?


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## Gimme Shoulder (Feb 10, 2004)

Boy, you guys sure read a lot into a statement that isn't there.
I never said crashes can't and don't happen at any time for any reason. I never said, or even impied, there is a single rider in the peloton that hasn't crashed in a race. What I am saying is that for a team leader, GC contender, Levi hits the deck a lot. I don't know the statistics, but I'll bet his tally is higher than other contemporary team leader. And sometimes it's because he's just not paying attention, or like Creaky said in another post, taking a bad line.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

Well, I'm a big fan of Levi and would like to see him win but I do feel like he crashes a lot. It sucks because he is tactically intelligent and fit enough to win the big races. The crashes are a little out of control sometimes.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Gimme Shoulder said:


> Boy, you guys sure read a lot into a statement that isn't there.
> I never said crashes can't and don't happen at any time for any reason. I never said, or even impied, there is a single rider in the peloton that hasn't crashed in a race. What I am saying is that for a team leader, GC contender, Levi hits the deck a lot. I don't know the statistics, but I'll bet his tally is higher than other contemporary team leader. And sometimes it's because he's just not paying attention, or like Creaky said in another post, taking a bad line.


Yes, he _seems_ prone to crashing. If you have an attention span, so do most other riders. 

Paying attention is fine n' dandy, but you're dealing with 100+ mile stages for many days in a row. The mind and body get tired. This happens to all riders. Some just have this happen at bad times.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

a Chinarello wins Paris Nice


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## L_Johnny (Jul 15, 2006)

So, I was looking at today tv schedule and the race isn't on until 11pm? Wtf..


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

L_Johnny said:


> So, I was looking at today tv schedule and the race isn't on until 11pm? Wtf..


Yeah, very late showing. Better late than never, I guess.


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## Rokh On (Oct 30, 2011)

*seriously?*



Creakyknees said:


> But still... I know plenty of fat non-racers who can pick a better line down a twisty descent... the man was getting gapped from his own teammates' train, fergawdsake. All he had to do was follow their line.


I get you're making a point but I think a "fat non-racer" on that downhill on his team bike would either be a total disaster or the brakes would be worn out after about 2 miles.

On crash 3 he did follow their line and ended up in a pileup with the Gendarmerie cycle on it's side. I know Bobke said the Gendarmerie shouldn't have been there but he was only trying to protect the other down cyclists. If they took a more sweeping line and the motorcycle wasn't there they most likely would have crashed into the others that were down. Remember there was a rider still lying in the road when they piled into the motorcycle.

I feel bad for Levi. To be so close. A friend jokingly speculated maybe he should stick to CA., UT., and CO., and stay the hec away from France.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

spade2you said:


> Yes, he _seems_ prone to crashing. If you have an attention span, so do most other riders.
> 
> Paying attention is fine n' dandy, but you're dealing with 100+ mile stages for many days in a row. The mind and body get tired. This happens to all riders. Some just have this happen at bad times.


I agree. According to these forums, just in the past few years we have a long list of riders who apparently need to "learn how to handle the bike", including Jens Voight, Lance Armstrong, Mark Cavendish, Tyler Farrar, Andreas Kloden, Brad Wiggins, Frank Schleck, Andy Schleck, George Hincapie, Tom Danielson, Levi Leipheimer, Chris Horner, Michael Rasmussen, Tommy Voeckler, Michael Rogers, Ivan Basso, Damiano Cunego, Michele Scarponi, etc. etc.

Does anyone here think Jens Voight is an inexperienced and inattentive bike handler? Surely hitting the deck three times in one stage would be a good proof of that, no? (never mind one of the most dramatic crashes captured on film)


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

55x11 said:


> I agree. According to these forums, just in the past few years we have a long list of riders who apparently need to "learn how to handle the bike", including Jens Voight, Lance Armstrong, Mark Cavendish, Tyler Farrar, Andreas Kloden, Brad Wiggins, Frank Schleck, Andy Schleck, George Hincapie, Tom Danielson, Levi Leipheimer, Chris Horner, Michael Rasmussen, Tommy Voeckler, Michael Rogers, Ivan Basso, Damiano Cunego, Michele Scarponi, etc. etc.
> 
> Does anyone here think Jens Voight is an inexperienced and inattentive bike handler? Surely hitting the deck three times in one stage would be a good proof of that, no? (never mind one of the most dramatic crashes captured on film)


'Zactly! Throw in a big field with narrow roads and nobody is immune. 

Hell, I'd argue that LA's winning streak was due to his luck of not crashing. Yet, with all of that experience, his bad day in 2010 put him in more bad luck crashes in a single day than he had all other tours combined. Still, it's remarkable how lucky he was with avoiding serious crashes while Vaughters has such stark contrasting luck. If it weren't a crash, a bee sting would make his swell to like this.










..and when Jens hits the pavement, they need a road crew to repair the roads.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Nice showing by Wiggo/Sky and Vacans and Movi.
Levi was falling all over the place - reminded me of Lance's last TdF.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

spade2you said:


> 'Zactly! Throw in a big field with narrow roads and nobody is immune.
> 
> Hell, I'd argue that LA's winning streak was due to his luck of not crashing. Yet, with all of that experience, his bad day in 2010 put him in more bad luck crashes in a single day than he had all other tours combined. Still, it's remarkable how lucky he was with avoiding serious crashes while Vaughters has such stark contrasting luck. If it weren't a crash, a bee sting would make his swell to like this.
> 
> ...


Jens doesn't crash, he head-butts the Earth.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

55x11 said:


> Does anyone here think Jens Voight is an inexperienced and inattentive bike handler? Surely hitting the deck three times in one stage would be a good proof of that, no? (never mind one of the most dramatic crashes captured on film)


You have a point. Jens crashes pretty often himself but NOBODY ever hates on him.


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## gamara (May 20, 2002)

55x11 said:


> I agree. According to these forums, just in the past few years we have a long list of riders who apparently need to "learn how to handle the bike", including Jens Voight, Lance Armstrong, Mark Cavendish, Tyler Farrar, Andreas Kloden, Brad Wiggins, Frank Schleck, Andy Schleck, George Hincapie, Tom Danielson, Levi Leipheimer, Chris Horner, Michael Rasmussen, Tommy Voeckler, Michael Rogers, Ivan Basso, Damiano Cunego, Michele Scarponi, etc. etc.
> 
> Does anyone here think Jens Voight is an inexperienced and inattentive bike handler? Surely hitting the deck three times in one stage would be a good proof of that, no? (never mind one of the most dramatic crashes captured on film)


Exactly but you forgot to mention the poster boy of these forums: Christian Vande Velde

I just find it funny that a professional can be racing for so many years & have so many great results & yet people will say that that person doesn't know how to ride??? That they crash all the time?? 

Racers crash all the time. Its the nature of the sport. Look at Taylor Phinney on the last issue of Velo. You can't help but notice the large amount of scar tissue he has & this kid is only 22. 

Some days you're the hammer & others, you're the nail.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

gamara said:


> Exactly but you forgot to mention the poster boy of these forums: Christian Vande Velde


Vande Velde's 2010 TdF post crash pic was demoralizing. He still gets back on the bike, which simply defies logic.


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## Rokh On (Oct 30, 2011)

I think there may be some very disappointed people if they are depending on their DVR and only set to record the cycling event and not the next show. They will miss the ending for sure. It's 9:23 p.m. and hockey is still on. Maybe NBC forgot to switch their clocks???


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Rokh On said:


> I think there may be some very disappointed people if they are depending on their DVR and only set to record the cycling event and not the next show. They will miss the ending for sure. It's 9:23 p.m. and hockey is still on. Maybe NBC forgot to switch their clocks???


Yeah, not the kind of spoiler I wanted to hear, but same here.

Since the cat is out of the bag, when was the last time Moncoutie was in the top 10 of a time trial?!!?!!


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## L_Johnny (Jul 15, 2006)

I don't know in which time zone you guys are, but in the east coast the show didn't get under way until past 11:30. Darn hockey


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## carlosflanders (Nov 23, 2008)

55x11 said:


> Does anyone here think Jens Voight is an inexperienced and inattentive bike handler? Surely hitting the deck three times in one stage would be a good proof of that, no? (never mind one of the most dramatic crashes captured on film)


Not so much the crashes, but he does have a problem riding straight.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

Rokh On said:


> I think there may be some very disappointed people if they are depending on their DVR and only set to record the cycling event and not the next show. They will miss the ending for sure. It's 9:23 p.m. and hockey is still on. Maybe NBC forgot to switch their clocks???


 That was me! Into the last 5 riders and blink! ...."Would you like to keep this episode, or delete" comes up on my TV....Man, I hate that. 

other comment.....Bob Roll? What, he is trying to be eloquent now? A couple of his cliches were.....somewhat contrived? Phony sounding? Romney-like? Come on, Bob....stick with the rap you do well and leave the "Announcer Voice" on the broadcaster school instruction app....


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

Gnarly 928 said:


> That was me! Into the last 5 riders and blink! ...."Would you like to keep this episode, or delete" comes up on my TV....Man, I hate that.


So... did you keep the episode?!


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## Rokh On (Oct 30, 2011)

and Valverde is now back on top!


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