# 585/Lightweights



## CFBlue (Jun 28, 1999)

My new 585 with DA10 and Lightweights. It's....light.

CC


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## ico (Feb 6, 2005)

*Beautifull*

When I see this bike, I can't wait for my 585 to come  Same color as yours, also with DA, ksyrium, only I ordered a look crabon crankset. What is the size of your frame? Some review perhaps? 

regards


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## ico (Feb 6, 2005)

ico said:


> When I see this bike, I can't wait for my 585 to come  Same color as yours, also with DA, ksyrium, only I ordered a look crabon crankset. What is the size of your frame? Some review perhaps?
> 
> Quoting myself .-), but I've seen your post on colnago section of yours c50 and c40 (great bikes): Since I had the privilige to ride c40 and then at the end of 2004 I ordered c50, but due the problem with colnago dealer I was forced to switch on some other manufactor, then I choose look 585. I would appriciate if you could give some comparation between c40-c50 and 585, I belive you ride all of them  In your opinion, do you think c50 is better bike then 585 ?
> 
> regards


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## peterpen (May 5, 2004)

Hot damn! That is some seriously sweet looking machine. Full-on 'modern' style build, all the way to the Zero Gravity's. Except the Italian shallow drops, I guess, but bars are really about what feels good. What did the scale say? I'm guessing that if you had to deal with the UCI, you'd be putting ice in the seat tube to make it legal.
Top notch build!


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## CFBlue (Jun 28, 1999)

Peterpen - scale says 14.2lbs/6.45kg. In race guise, with heavier skewers, maybe a porky saddle like a Turbomatic, it should be just over 6.8kg  

ico - the comparison is something like this; I love my C40 because it's been through more crap with me than any other bike and got me my best race placing last year ( a lowly seventh  ). It's not the lightest, the stiffest or the most comfortable frame in the world, but it is pretty good at all three and undeniably a classic racing frame.

The C50 is a bit lighter, a bit stiffer and a bit more 'lively'. It addresses what was one of the C40's chief failings in that it has a 1 and 1/8 fork, which makes the whole front end of the bike stiffer and more responsive. It feels quite a lot lighter and faster than the 40.

Importantly, both the 40 and the 50 share the same basic geometry, although the 50 has a slightly taller head tube (by 7mm). They both have a slightly slacker (71 degree) fork rake, a very slightly steeper (74 degree) seat tube angle and (I think) a slightly longer wheelbase than many frames. This gives them a lot of stability at speed, and makes them very good bikes to go downhill on. The phrase "descends like it's on rails" has been used...

The geometry of the 585, while not as tight as it could be, is a bit tighter, so it seems to steer into turns more quickly, but it feels slightly more jittery at speed and on descents. For me (at 62kg) it feels stiff - stiffer than my 40, perhaps the same as the 50. I was surprised by how comfortable it was, although this is not a big priority for me. I've only ridden the 585 for about an hour with Lightweights, so it's not easy to make more detailed comparisons, but so far I'd rather ride the 585 uphill, the 40 or 50 downhill, and in between would depend on how long the race and how tight the turns...

CC


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

Unbelievable! I could stare at that bike for hours. The carbon patterns hypnotize me.

What are those wheels weigh and how do they ride? Are they tubulars? I'm going to try Reynolds Cirro KOMs but they are tubular wheels and that's like a foreign language to me.

francois


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## 52-16SS (Dec 16, 2002)

francois said:


> Unbelievable! I could stare at that bike for hours. The carbon patterns hypnotize me.
> 
> What are those wheels weigh and how do they ride? Are they tubulars? I'm going to try Reynolds Cirro KOMs but they are tubular wheels and that's like a foreign language to me.
> 
> francois


 Francois,

I just tried the tubi thing for the firts time, I used Tufo tires with tufo extreme tape....EZ, EZ, EZ. Give it a try!

SS


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

52-16SS said:


> Francois,
> 
> I just tried the tubi thing for the firts time, I used Tufo tires with tufo extreme tape....EZ, EZ, EZ. Give it a try!
> 
> SS



Good, good. Now what about the rest of it? How do they ride? More comfortable? Faster? Let us know as you discover more.

thanks,
francois


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## 52-16SS (Dec 16, 2002)

francois said:


> Good, good. Now what about the rest of it? How do they ride? More comfortable? Faster? Let us know as you discover more.
> 
> thanks,
> francois


 The wheels I bought are the Cane Creek Aros, which has the Zipp 404 rim. I only have one ride on them so far, but my first impressions are that they are stiff, they felt a little harsh but that is most likely due to me inflating them to 160psi. I could feel a distinct added push when the wind came from the right angle. Acceleration felt faster as well.

btw go to http://www.tufo.com/index.php?lg=en&co=instrukce#Instr6
and watch the videos, only additional advice is to make sure that you pre-strecth the tires.

SS


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## CFBlue (Jun 28, 1999)

francois - 

Lightweight wheels are made in Germany by Dierl and Obermayer (although they were bought out last year by a firm named Carbonsports). They are only made in a tubular version. The hub flange, spokes and rim are 'baked' into a single carbon/epoxy structure which is what gives them their incredible stiffness. 

Riis (96), Ullrich (97,03,04), and Armstrong (01,02) have all ridden them in the TdeF, to name a few. The 'standard' versions weigh between 1100 and 1200 grammes depending on the number of spokes on the front wheel (you can choose from 12, 16, or 20 spokes).

I usually race on tubular wheels because they feel better, roll a little better, tend to be lighter (no separate inner tube or clincher wall on the wheel) and also seem more puncture resistant than clinchers.

CC


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## jun1662 (Dec 15, 2004)

*Whewww!*



Ce Cinquanta said:


> My new 585 with DA10 and Lightweights. It's....light.
> 
> CC


CC,

That is definitely one mean looking machine! wonder how it rides, Any reviews? Pls share your opinion on descent, I'm interested in its handling, is it stable? compared to your 2 colnagos are there any weak points. . .  

Thanks...


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## henry (Mar 17, 2004)

*confidence downhill ?*



Ce Cinquanta said:


> Peterpen - scale says 14.2lbs/6.45kg. In race guise, with heavier skewers, maybe a porky saddle like a Turbomatic, it should be just over 6.8kg
> 
> ico - the comparison is something like this; I love my C40 because it's been through more crap with me than any other bike and got me my best race placing last year ( a lowly seventh  ). It's not the lightest, the stiffest or the most comfortable frame in the world, but it is pretty good at all three and undeniably a classic racing frame.
> 
> ...


Am waiting my 585 frame due april... appreciate info you have already posted and I and others similarly awaiting new LOOKs would really appreciate further reports from you... Interesting to hear that you found the 585 more "jittery" than your C50... what do you think in its design differs from the C50 to cause this .. and is it as prenounced to the point that you wouldnt feel completely safe at downhill racing speeds on the 585 compared to the Colnago C50?


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## CFBlue (Jun 28, 1999)

henry and jun1662 - 

'Jittery' is perhaps the wrong word. The point is that the steering feels quicker and perhaps more precise than the C50. It's also not that the 585 feels bad or difficult to control on the few serious descents it's been down so far; it's just that it's not quite as rock-stable as the C50 - the best descending frame I've ever ridden.

I deliberately went for the 585 knowing it's steering would be quicker, because many of the courses I race on are circuits with tight turns which the longer geometry of the 40 and 50 is not ideal for. 

CC


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## henry (Mar 17, 2004)

*all round bike + Lightweight wheel question*

Gotcha !... like many I'm always after that perfect machine for all occasions which at top level frames territory is a fairly finite thing. I've never ridden a C50 but have been riding my 381i for the last 2 seasons which with its adjustable wheelbase is probably similarly rock solid downhill (certainly I have found it so) but was also after something with quicker handling and lighter but most importantly just as safe in all aspects as the 381...

A question about your Lightweights.. I havnt ridden tubs but regarding these particular wheels arnt you worried about possible cracking of carbon rims should you have a blow out?. I know that we all take risks on any bike regardless of the type of wheels we use but I've always wondered how safe those Lightweights were especially the carbon spokes!.. surely it would be easy to snap them in your fingers unlike steel ones??!


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

*Congratulations!*

Signore Cinquanta,

You didn't buy a *second* pair of Lightweight wheels, did you ?!? Its hard to keep up with your inventory of thoroughbreds  

At 14.2 lbs/6.45 kg, that Look is extremely light. Plus, you haven't even gone full blown on weight weenie stuff (besides the wheels and zero gravities) . Change to more even carbon knick knacks (bars, bottle cages, etc.) and an unrealistically light carbon saddle, and I am sure you can get down to below 13.5 lbs/ 6.13 kg. 

I am surprised that you believe the C50 is lighter. From looking at the various web sites, my assumptions were that the 585 is the champ at light weight. Anyway, I have been trying to make a decision between several top bikes, including the C50 (HM), 585, DeRosa King (Xlight) and the Fondriest Top Carbon (talk about overpriced!), and that decision seems impossible! I am also a fan of Campagnolo components, and therefore the decision between Lightweights and Boras (which are slightly cheaper) is also difficult.

In any event, congratulations! What great taste!


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

Oh yeah. Would anyone think a Look bike would look weird with Campagnolo components? I know it would be like putting Campagnolo on Lance's Madone. Unusual perhaps, but would it be sacrilege?


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## peterpen (May 5, 2004)

Campy and Look is fine by me - but then I'm looking at my new 481 w/Record bits so I'm somewhat biased. Hear's a taste. Will post full pics for the style mavens to tear apart after I get it all dialed.


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## Scotland Boy (Nov 11, 2004)

*Wow*

Congratulations CC on your wonderful bike. Man that is a dream machine. You must have to get up extra early to decide which bike to ride on every day.  Nice one. Can you tell me what size frame and stem that is? Just curious.

As for Campy on Looks, I hope it's not illegal cause I have Record on my 481SL. I will post some pics when I discover how to reduce their size. Good to see you got your 481sl Peterpen. Look forward to seeing those photos.

SB


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## CFBlue (Jun 28, 1999)

Ian - No that's the same pair of Lightweights  . The C50 is slumming it with silver Ksyriums these days. I meant to say that the C50 was slightly lighter than the C40 - not lighter than the 585. It isn't.

henry - I know what you mean about the carbon/aramid spokes - that's why I have 20 on the front, as opposed to the 16 or 12 I could have had. I resisted the lure of Lightweights for some time because I just couldn't understand how they worked. But having raced these wheels (and crashed them at 35mph+), I have to say they are incredibly robust and I trust them just as much as Ksyriums.

SB - It's a 'Small' (51cm equivalent), with a 120mm stem. The dimensions are very similar to my 53cm Nags, except the TT is 0.5cm shorter.

Campy and Look fine with me too - this from the guy who puts Shimano on his Colnagos.  

My 585 is almost a replica of Valverde's bike from the later stages of last year's Vuelta - except he used ITM Sword bar/stem which I wasn't keen on. 

Many thanks to all for your kind comments. Just have to win some races on this thing now...

CC


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## henry (Mar 17, 2004)

Ce Cinquanta said:


> henry and jun1662 -
> 
> 'Jittery' is perhaps the wrong word. The point is that the steering feels quicker and perhaps more precise than the C50. It's also not that the 585 feels bad or difficult to control on the few serious descents it's been down so far; it's just that it's not quite as rock-stable as the C50 - the best descending frame I've ever ridden.
> 
> ...


Hey cinquanta!... You fancy hooking up for a 585 chain gang this season?.. am based in West London.


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## CFBlue (Jun 28, 1999)

Yo henry!

I ride with Sigma on Sunday mornings and am usually in Richmond Park on a Saturday morning if the weather's OK. Do you know about the Sigma rides? They're pretty good and a few of us usually go a bit longer and do 70-80 miles if you're up for that. We meet at 9.30am outside the shop.

Haven't taken the 585 on one of those rides yet - might feel a bit self conscious and posey  

Otherwise I will bung Cosmic Carbones on it to do some Surrey League races, maybe Hillingdon.

CC


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## henry (Mar 17, 2004)

*Shy 585 !*



Ce Cinquanta said:


> Yo henry!
> 
> I ride with Sigma on Sunday mornings and am usually in Richmond Park on a Saturday morning if the weather's OK. Do you know about the Sigma rides? They're pretty good and a few of us usually go a bit longer and do 70-80 miles if you're up for that. We meet at 9.30am outside the shop.
> 
> ...


Sorry not to get back sooner.. we've probably met at some point on the Sigma Road race!...but havnt been attending since last october when I had a fall/ R.T.A sustaining a dislocated collar bone/torn ligaments. Been back on the bike since early January and will be well up for some longer rides as long as its above 7degrees.. am recovering well and if it hadnt been so bitter recently would be out clocking more steady winter miles than I have been, ready to up the pace/endurance come spring in prep for this years Granfondos. Been spinning round the park too recently more than doing Windsor or Surrey Hill rides simply cos its been cold and its close to home!.... I'll look out for you in Richmond Park maybe tomorrow (sat 19feb).. what will you be spinning on if not the 585?


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## HazemBata (May 20, 2004)

nice bike.

i want to ask about the wheels. the only other manufacturer that uses similar spokes is topolino. the owner of a LBS says that they help dampen road buzz. what is your opinion on that statement? can you compare it to other wheels?

since i have your attention, have you ever ridden the C50, any Time frame or the Khan? I am trying to narrow down my list and could use any help you can offer.

thanks


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## CFBlue (Jun 28, 1999)

HazemBata said:


> nice bike.
> 
> i want to ask about the wheels. the only other manufacturer that uses similar spokes is topolino. the owner of a LBS says that they help dampen road buzz. what is your opinion on that statement? can you compare it to other wheels?
> 
> ...


HazemBata - 

I've only ever seen photos of Topolino wheels, but I doubt if they're made the same way as Lightweights. Do they really have aramid/kevlar spokes?. I don't detect any dampening of road buzz with the Lightweights and I don't use them if comfort is a priority - they are race wheels.

I own a C50. It is slightly heavier, but more comfortable than the 585. It would be a tough choice between them, but if I could only have one bike, it would be a C50.

CC


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## ico (Feb 6, 2005)

Ce Cinquanta said:


> I own a C50. It is slightly heavier, but more comfortable than the 585. It would be a tough choice between them, but if I could only have one bike, it would be a C50.


why, because of the comfort or there is more in favor of c50?


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