# Disclaimer: I am NOT a woman



## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

I am at my wits end with my daughter. I want her to be a rider too, but until I can get her on a saddle that fits and is going to be comfortable, that isn't going to happen. She is 17 and petit, however, built like a woman not a little boy. I have had her on 3 or 4 saddles and none have been comfortable for more than 20 miles. She explained where her "sitz bones" hit on the saddle I have on the bike now and I took the calipers to it and measured 118 mm. My primary question is do any of you ladies ride Brooks?....I know I do and have for over 40 years, but I understand the individual tastes in saddles. I am also not a lady and 118 mm is WAY wider than my bone structure calls for. I finally have her understanding that a cushy upohlstered saddle is not going to be comfy for the long haul. She is riding a circa 1996 Specialized Crossroads, hybrid, converted to a flat bar roadbike with an ultegra triple crankset and a 13-30 rear cassette, It has an adjustable stem and I believe we finally have the fore/aft and height dialed in perfectly on the saddle. we still need to get it to fit her tail!

Please, does any one have any suggestions as to specific saddles?
I know the drill, find a good shop with a good return/exchange policy but I need a starting point.

This is my baby and my last chance to raise up a rider.....please help me...daddy is tired of riding alone and she is good company.


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## kermit (Dec 7, 2004)

*I feel her pain*

I went through the saddle hunt also, and as a woman it is no easier than for men. I finally find the one I like in the Terry line. I got the zero X which is thin and a little flat but with a cut out. You need to find out whether she wants flat for her seat bones or padded. Make sure her shorts are good and the bike fits her well. Sometimes a small adjustment could help. All I can say is tell her you want to get her the right one and everyone has problems with saddles. Koobi also some interesting saddles. You might need to order three or four and just let her try them all. Good luck. 
If she is only complaining about her seat bones, I know some guys that actually wear two pair of shorts.


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## Rollo Tommassi (Feb 5, 2004)

*I am not a parent*

but, perhaps a cushy upholstered saddle is really what she wants. When you say 'the long haul', is 20 miles her limit or is she really wanting to up the mileage to say, 60-70?

I'd say she is a rider already, this is not something determined by mileage. 

I think it's great that you've got your daughter riding with you, so keep it fun for a young adult. Does she go with you to the LBS to pick out the saddle herself? Have her sit on saddles on bikes in the shop, or even test ride the bike with a saddle she likes. I know it can be frustrating, butt (haha) in the end it is the End that defines the means. :thumbsup:


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

She wants to be able to do long rides, that is for certain. She has been my riding partner since I had her in the rear carrier....then to the trail-a-baike. Now she is riding one of mine which is a sweet ride...The problem with a harder saddle is only the "sitz bones" so we know we need to concentrate on that style. A cushy saddle creates all kinds of other issues.
I gave her a pair of my shorts yesterday and it was better. I will get her a new pair od her own I assume womens are a bit different.

I am thinking frome her general build, that a flatter saddle is going to be it, but next week we are going in to a good LBS WITH the bike so she can try some. I was looking for a starting point. I know how dedicated I am to my Brooks saddles, but she HATES mine but they are both B-17 N which are only 177 mm wide total and that pouts her bones right over the metal frame. (rear horseshoe)
Thanks for the feedback


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## technotart (Jun 24, 2005)

I tried all manner of saddles till I found my Selle Lady. It has a wider sit bone span than many of the others, not too much squish - just a little where the sit bones hit. 

Remind her that big squishy cushy saddles will squish up into places where pressure doesn't belong and create more misery than they save on a long ride.


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## snapdragen (Jan 28, 2004)

TOG - a number of my friends have this saddle, and swear by it. 

http://www.teamestrogen.com/products.asp?pID=22573


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## technotart (Jun 24, 2005)

this was the one I was talking about...

http://www.teamestrogen.com/products.asp?pID=10885


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Snap, I like that saddle but sheesh....$160..... Gotta evaluate how much I love her....Now Selle has a Gel Flow ladies ...and a gel flow womans.....since it is my daughter...we NEED to go for LADIES...is there a difference short of the price?


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

Go to a Specialized dealer and use their sit bone measurement device (basically a memory foam pad). 118mm sounds very narrow. If her position is more upright than typical she'll need a wider saddle, because the sit bones squeeze together as you bend over. And she'll also have more of her weight on the saddle, so proper fit will be important.

If she really does have narrow sitbones she may be happier on a mens saddle. My wife now uses a men's selle SLR gel flow after going through the usual women's saddles- she doesn't have particularly narrow hips but has narrow sitbones.


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## technotart (Jun 24, 2005)

look at the selle italia web site and see if there is a difference in width - I think they also have a third womens saddle now too that is split all the wya to the back. 

Our LBS carries these, they will let you "try out' a saddle for awhile to see if you are going to like it before you make a final committment to it - I bet somewhere in your area would do the same.


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## AZ_Mike (Sep 10, 2004)

*I am not a woman either*

Nor do I play one on tv. I do ride with my wife though. The biggest thing that helped her was a good pair of cycling shorts. What type if any of cycling shorts are you using? Her fav is the Castelli YPro but your girl may be different.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Touch0Gray said:


> Snap, I like that saddle but sheesh....$160..... Gotta evaluate how much I love her....Now Selle has a Gel Flow ladies ...and a gel flow womans.....since it is my daughter...we NEED to go for LADIES...is there a difference short of the price?


I use the Lady's Gel Flow and love it. It's worth a try.


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## snapdragen (Jan 28, 2004)

And it's on sale at Team Estrogen! See technotart's post for the url.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

I'm seeing a LOT of votes on the Ladies gel flow....'preciate the feedback....SHE will 'preciate the feedback...

btw...Steve Earle makes some pretty nice music....... (re: your sig line)


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

snapdragen said:


> And it's on sale at Team Estrogen! See technotart's post for the url.


Reading the finer print on their site...they sure have a MEDIOCRE return policy, at least in writing..."New and UNUSED condition"?.....how are you supposed to tell if a saddle fits without mounting it up and trying it? Any how, I am stopping to talk to the owner of a local shop today, he owes me one, I gave him a pair of Nike 10/2 carbon mtn bike shoes someone gave me.......that should be worth something considering they sell for 200 bucks....LOL

Not sure how much I am going to get done this week....short week at both ends for me... but thanks!


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## Keeping up with Junior (Feb 27, 2003)

*Why*



Touch0Gray said:


> Snap, I like that saddle but sheesh....$160..... Gotta evaluate how much I love her....Now Selle has a Gel Flow ladies ...and a gel flow womans.....since it is my daughter...we NEED to go for LADIES...is there a difference short of the price?


And what makes you think you need a LADIES saddle? You need a saddle that fits your daughter. 

My first advice is always get the bike fit dialed in which it sounds like you have done.

Next is shorts which you have failed to even consider. You loaned her a pair of your shorts? You need to get her some womens shorts and that in itself can be a challenge to find the right pair. 

The final step is finding a saddle that fits her body. You indicated that she is petite. My wife is petite also and has found that most womens saddles are simply too wide for her sit bones. Don't get hung up on the labels. As for my petite wife, she rides a (mens) Selle Italia Flite Gel. Appropriate padding and shaped for her body. The ladies version is too wide for my wife.


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## vonteity (Feb 13, 2005)

Keeping up with Junior said:


> And what makes you think you need a LADIES saddle? You need a saddle that fits your daughter.


I would agree on this... 118 mm does not sound like she needs a women's saddle. From what I can tell most women's saddles are 150mm and up, whereas men's saddles are generally 143mm and below, I think 130mm being about average.

The problem is probably that the saddle she is using is too wide, not too narrow.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Touch0Gray said:


> I'm seeing a LOT of votes on the Ladies gel flow....'preciate the feedback....SHE will 'preciate the feedback...
> 
> btw...Steve Earle makes some pretty nice music....... (re: your sig line)


It's Son Volt. But Steve Earle is great too.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

vonteity said:


> I would agree on this... 118 mm does not sound like she needs a women's saddle. From what I can tell most women's saddles are 150mm and up, whereas men's saddles are generally 143mm and below, I think 130mm being about average.
> 
> The problem is probably that the saddle she is using is too wide, not too narrow.


On the saddle I have on the bike now, her "sitz bones" are within 11 mm of the edge of the saddle, It is 140 mm overall which is pretty narrow. At that point on the saddle,(her contact point) it is already rolling down to the vey edge rapidly, so not only is the contact point smaller but it is pushing outwards on the bones as well.
This saddle is unquestionably too narrow. I ride a Brook B17-N which is 152 mm wide and fairly flat. My oldest ( over 20,000 miles on it in 5 years) has CLEARLY defined "dimples" from my "sitz bones" which measure about 80 mm center to center. That leaves about 20 mm to the steel "horseshoe" underneath. (36 mm to the edge)
In all this has NOTHING to do with my girls bone structure or saddle needs, only with the construction of a Brooks, properly fit......to me.
The fact that her skeletal structure is almost 30 mm wider than mine leads me to believe that she probably (and I say probably ) needs a saddle wider than mine.
BUT I am not a woman which is why I asked you folks here.....Whether she needs a womans saddle or not, she needs a different saddle than the ones we have been trying.
As for the shorts...YES...new ones of her very own are certainly necessitated here.

The Selle Italia Lady Gel Flow is 152 wide. I know the only way to do this is for her to try saddles. That is a given. What I was looking for was a starting point.Walking in toa shop and looking for saddles with no point of reference would be touhg for me. I would assume that with most saddles, the overall width is not really all usable width if you understand what I am saying. Most do roll down at the edges. For me at least that isn't a comfortable place to sit.

So the bottom line...(ooooh...sorry) is, that there have been a LOT of suggestions to try selle italia gel flow.....and one for that gorgeous anatomica...(ya got good taste Snap). AND a recomendation of a Specialized Alias in a PM.
NOW all I need is time to go shopping with her, methinks this is NOT going to be an internet excursion.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Have you considered a woman's brooks? Wallbike has a variety:

http://www.wallbike.com/brooks/standardsaddles.html

Scroll down for the women's. The b17-s is 177 wide ($68), and the b-68s is 210 wide at $93. I've never ordered from wall, but many have and been happy with the service. Just another option, a lot of people forget Brooks does women specific stuff too.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

dr hoo said:


> Have you considered a woman's brooks? Wallbike has a variety:
> 
> http://www.wallbike.com/brooks/standardsaddles.html
> 
> Scroll down for the women's. The b17-s is 177 wide ($68), and the b-68s is 210 wide at $93. I've never ordered from wall, but many have and been happy with the service. Just another option, a lot of people forget Brooks does women specific stuff too.


Have I considered a Brook....well yeah, for myself, that is the ONLY consideration.....Wall has a great return policy too. (I am a 41 yr Brooks veteran, got my first one at 13) And how could you forget the "woman specific" Brooks....haven't you seen that ad?....


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

il sogno said:


> It's Son Volt. But Steve Earle is great too.



http://www.lyricsdownload.com/steve-earle-windfall-lyrics.html

Sorry I just assumed Steve Earle had written it.......


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Touch0Gray said:



> (I am a 41 yr Brooks veteran, got my first one at 13) And how could you forget the "woman specific" Brooks....haven't you seen that ad?....


Oh yeah, I have seen the ad.

Given you ride them, and have one for reference, you should be able to get a nice idea of what width will be needed for your daughter. Using your numbers she might fit closely on a 182. Your choices are 177 or 210. It might or might not be a good fit, but at least you have some IDEA how it would fit.

Good luck on the search.


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## madelaine (Mar 13, 2007)

*good grief, buy her a Brooks!*



Touch0Gray said:


> I
> 
> Please, does any one have any suggestions as to specific saddles?
> I know the drill, find a good shop with a good return/exchange policy but I need a starting point.
> ...



You've been riding Brooks for years but you didn't put her on one? Why not?  
I have a B67 on my Bianchi Veloce, I had one on my hybrid before that. I have one on my tandem too. If I could buy a new saddle today, I would probably get the B68 because of the rails. A lot of women have expressed displeasure with the women's specific Brooks, the regular fit ones do me just fine.
Good luck!


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## SadieKate (Feb 22, 2006)

Personally, I would get her the shorts first. Until she has those, she could go through a lot of saddles without knowing that it's really the shorts that are the primary problem.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

SadieKate said:


> Personally, I would get her the shorts first. Until she has those, she could go through a lot of saddles without knowing that it's really the shorts that are the primary problem.



Good call....will do... ordering now....


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## SadieKate (Feb 22, 2006)

No, no, no! Where do you live? Take her to a shop and let her try several pair. They all fit differently and women are far harder to fit than men. Ask the fashion industry. Ask Voler. Ask any bike clothing manufacturer. Some brands are a half or full size off from another. Chamois are shaped differently. Take her shopping!


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

that's it...I'm putting her up for adoption....this is going to get expensive...AS USUAL....I mean really, it'd be totally different if it was for ME...


ducking.........


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

that's it...I'm putting her up for adoption....this is going to get expensive...AS USUAL....I mean really, it'd be totally different if it was for ME...


ducking.........


oh yeah I live in WI, near madison...why did YOU want to take her shopping......


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## SadieKate (Feb 22, 2006)

See! Doesn't Madison have good bike shops so you'll have a good selection? Just think how expensive it will get it you have to order shorts, return shorts, and repeat until she finds the pair with just the right chamois, waistband, leg length, loose/tight leg grippers, etc., etc., etc.,

Come on, you have a daughter which makes me assume there is/was a mother somewhere. You can't be THAT ignorant of women. 

Men buy clothing off the rack without trying on the garment. Women don't. Period. Unless your daughter is one of a very tiny minority, take her shopping . . . with a budget.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

A mother?.....let me put it this way, I have a wife, and THREE daughters...a mom, 2 sisters, a mother in-law, 4 sister-in-laws....and a female dog which I promptly had spayed. 
Please do NOT assume that I begin to understand women.......

Madison has great bike shops, a lot of them.

I can't go shopping now I have a 10 hour drive tomorrow to get to Ohio and a 10 hour drive Sunday to get home and I need to squeeze a weeks work into 4 days so...this whole thing is going to have to wait until next week.


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