# Help me build my winter commuter



## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Anyone in the PacNW knows we've gotten a snow-and-ice storm early this year, record lows, chaos on the roads, etc. My caliper-brake, 25c commuter ain't cutting it for the foulest of weather - specifically the ice and snow.

Want to help me decide on what I need? I mostly am curious about your strategies with tire pressure, brake selection, etc.

Challenges of the commute, which I do most days when it is not icy:
25 miles, one way.
10 miles of flat MUT. Rest on roads. 2 noteworthy hills -- and no way around a 12% climb and descent, for a short section.

I don't have a bike that can deal with these conditions now.

So, let's talk about some of the details, like:

Do I need a "mountain bike," like a hardtail 29er, or a "dual sport hybrid?" Will a touring bike be sufficient? 

Suggestions for tire width for dealing with dicey traction situation, considering the distance. 35mm road enough? Do I need a 2.1 mountain? Etc, etc.

Studded tires -- They say they "really work." I got a pair, but they don't fit my current bike. Will I be impressed?

What works for you?

Discuss.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

Argentius said:


> ....What works for you?....


Retiring and wintering in Florida works pretty well for us!  

To really answer your question I suggest a stable of bikes. Your regular commuter with widish tires and full fenders, a race bike for fine days and a MTB with studded tires for ice and snow. Big lights on everything.

Oh ya, then sell the car.

BTW I understand Raleigh makes fine bikes........


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## rcnute (Dec 21, 2004)

I think a touring or cross bike that will take 35mm tires with fenders or studded tires without fenders (for the La Nina winter) would be fine. My 650b x 42mm tires work okay for most conditions. Tire pressure is about 50psi. 

Now I want an old MTB for an "ice bike."


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

BTW2 If you spend the winter riding a MTB with studded tires every day you are going to be crazy strong in the spring.

BTW3 studded tires rule the ice. :thumbsup:


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## KWL (Jan 31, 2005)

MB1 said:


> BTW3 studded tires rule the ice. :thumbsup:


 And sometimes the ice still wins. But I wouldn't do without my studded tires in the winter.


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## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

This is a fairly mild winter day for me. Three inches of wet snow that night. Temp was in the upper 20s that morning. We'd recently had a thaw so what's on the ground isn't particularly impressive. Through January and February we get an inch a day, with a snowstorm (6"-8") once a week, with temps in the teens throughout.

I don't really care for mountain bikes. It's just a a personal preference--I like my drop bars and STI too much. (I can't imagine a 25 mile commute on an MTB.)

My bike is an '06 Trek Portland. I'm beginning the fourth winter on this bike. There isn't anything I'd change. If you prefer road over MTB, then any frame that will fit 35mm with full fenders will do just fine. 

The tires are Nokian Hakkapeliitta W106 in 700x35. Schwalbe Marathon Winter are also a good choice. The differences between them being that the Nokians are better in deeper snow and have more rolling resistance. The Schwalbes have less rolling resistance and are better on plain ice. (The Nokians are no slouches on ice either, BTW.) Here we have more snow than ice, so I chose the Nokians.

If you ride roads, 35mm is sufficient. You want to be able to sink through the snow to the pavement. Thinner tires allow that. Fat tires ride on top of the snow, which is fine off-road and perhaps preferable there. But in traffic, you don't want to grip the snow because it will move under the tire--generally sideways. You want to grip _through_ the snow to the pavement.

As for ice, studs are a must. Cheap tires with plain steel studs are about worthless, since the studs wear out in a month or less. Spend the long buck up front for carbide and they'll last for years. Starting my fifth winter on mine and near as I can tell, I have at least twice that left.

I've found the disk brakes to be very, very nice since they're far less prone to clogging up with snow. They stop the same no matter what the conditions. Plus, that first winter I wore out the braking surface on that set of (cheap) wheels. No such problem with disks.

I also consider a triple a must in the snow. When it gets really dicey, it's easier for me to keep my balance and to be able to react quickly if I can spin with light pressure on the pedals at a cadence of 95 or higher. The lower gears let me do that. In the three seasons I prefer a standard double with 12-23. When the snows go on, I ride a triple with a 12-27. Makes it easier to spin those 875 gram tires too.

And yes, every spring I come out stronger than the autumn before.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Bruce, thanks, that's a useful reflection. That looks different than PNW winters -- the norm will be rain, but there will be a good month where it MAY freeze over. Rarely will you get accumulation of snow more than an inch. So, it sounds like studs are important.

MB1, I thought you might weigh in. How far did you have to go, and how fast did you cover the distance on your MTB? I am no speed demon on commutes, but I'd like the 25 miles to take no more than, let's call it 2 hours, maybe 2.25. Think that's do-able? Road bike on a sunny day it is 75-90 minutes.

Lights -- yes, I had 3 x Sigma 200-rated lumen (really like 150) Karma lights, they are nice, but I just bought a Niterider Slickrock 900 (920 tested lumens.) Old tech, and heavy, but it was cheap enough. 

Both -- how is traction and stopping w/r/t descents on studs, in ice? This is something I have never done.


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## JP (Feb 8, 2005)

Argent, there is no question you want a second set of wheels with studs. They are so solid on ice, that the only problem you will have is when you stop. 

With studs, one sometimes forgets how slippery ice is, so one forgets and the foot slips when stopped..

If I were you, I would also do the dropped bar road thing. 

Why not get a Bianchi San Jose and run Paselas or hard case all year and studs when you need them.

The San Jose is such a sleeper, I know guys with custom Davidsons, Rexs and Derosas who use San Jose's for 1200K's.

Oh, and you will never convince me YOU need more than a single speed. 

One of these days, you should get a good dynohub too for the amount you use it.

You are welcome to borrow my studded bike some day if you want to try it.


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## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

Argentius said:


> That looks different than PNW winters


Oh, I don't know. I'm sure you'd recognize the leaden heavy overcast. Rochester, NY is the second-cloudiest city in the lower 48 after Seattle. See how dark in that photo above? It was mid-to-late morning.



Argentius said:


> how is traction and stopping w/r/t descents on studs, in ice?


Sit-and-spin is the method of choice when climbing. (Another reason for the triple.) This keeps your weight on the rear tire. If you stand to climb, it unweights the rear and it will lose grip--which feels a lot like snapping a chain.

Descending is best done MTB-style, with your weight off the back of the saddle. This unweights the front slightly so it's less prone to plowing.

Unweighting the front is also the technique of choice when it starts to shift side-to-side. It's better to accept a little light wander because you can maintain your intended direction easier. If you're too heavy on the front, it will follow every groove and rut.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

Argentius said:


> ....MB1, I thought you might weigh in. How far did you have to go, and how fast did you cover the distance on your MTB?


It is all about the conditions. Smooth ice was great with the studded tires and 10-12mph was no problem at all. But you get some daytime melting, runners and walkers messing up the surface, piles of snow plowed into your route and 6mph can be tough.

My shortest commute distance was 3 miles, Miss M's was 7. We rarely rode that little, 20-30 miles was more like it (riding in the snow and ice is fun!). Neither of us had jobs that we couldn't show up late if the conditions were bad (in fact in bad conditions we were usually the first in the office), I don't know how it is where you work.

Still I believe a bike with studded tires is a must for year 'round commuting. If you have lots of fender clearance to that would be a great bonus. We rode MTBs because that is what we already owned and most years we only needed the studded tires a few times. If we were somewhere that had lots of ice we might have bought something special but I am a big fan of using what you already have.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Thanks JP -- I am okay with singles - indeed I rode fixed only for a full winter training season, though my knees were upset about it -- but, I suspect that gears might be a plus for maintaining traction up my hill.

As it is, last week a couple of those "winter mix" days I had to sit-and-spin -- my typical out of the saddle, big ring climbamashing was spinning the tire too much on the broken concrete surface! 

I should be able to source studed tires fairly easily, but I do not have a frame that will accomodate them yet, so I'm working on whether this should be a road / touring frame, or an MTB. 

It sounds like the drop-bar / road might be a good way to go. I think I'll have access to both, I'll bug some people last week.

A fellow in my company mentioned to me something about wanting me to be able to continue to represent the brand over the winter riding season, and he has the power to make this happen, so, I am hopeful I'll be able to work something out soon.

As for speed -- I was one of the first to arrive today, but I took the early train, and jogged the 5 miles between the train station and the office. 5 miles of jogging in the snow with a backpack isn't something I want to make a habit of!


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## cparrish (Jun 21, 2010)

I dunno I'm out in Kirkland and just switched to my mountain bike for the week 2.3 inch kenda Nevegal in the front and 2.1 inch Panaracer fire xc in the back and its worked fine, rolls through any snow and haven't really had trouble with traction on the ice. It does add about half an hour to my normal 1.5 hour round trip commute. Its pretty rare I break it out for this though maybe 1-2 weeks of the year studs seem like overkill.


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## StageHand (Dec 27, 2002)

The Sojourn without the fenders will handle studded tires.

For the 700c studded tires, figure you need clearance for about 40mm tires, which that should have without the fenders.

If you want to build something up, the Surly Cross Check and Long Haul Trucker have clearance for 45c tires. Soma Double cross is a little smaller, but still should clear the studs (and comes disc compatible).

I have three bikes, a mountain bike, a fixed gear and a cross bike. Of the three, the cross bike is the one I commute on and change around the most. Never with studs, since I really only need them a few days a year, and if the ice is hard, usually a plain mountain bike does well enough (be careful with weight distribution, though).

Here's the question: How specific a bike do you want this to be? and for what conditions/range of conditions?


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## MTT (Oct 14, 2005)

You have gotten some good responses so far, but since I commute year round in Seattle I might as well toss my hat in the ring. For the rain I like the Schwalbe Marathon Plus tire, although the Gator Skins and Marathon Supremes are also good options (but a little less puncture resistant). No need for studded tires here (unless you are close to the mountains) as we get maybe 10 snow days in a typical year. 

As for a bike I am currently looking for a disc equipped cyclocross bike so I can run full fenders and size 35 tires in the winter. I am going to sell both my insanely fast road bike (Litespeed) and my current commuter (Specialized Tri-Cross with TRP calipers) and get one road bike with disc brakes and two sets of wheels (one with 23s and one with 35s), so I can maintain one bike instead of two. Since I don't do long road rides outside of commuting these days this will work for me, but obviously the new bike will not be nearly as fast as my LS. If I get half a day to ride I mountain bike anyway. 

Anyway for frame material I am going to go with either carbon, aluminum or titanium (depending on how much money I can get out of my two bikes). I love titanium, but I have been hearing rumors that since the UCI lifted its ban on disc brakes, all the big companies will have sweet carbon cross bikes for the 2012 season. Plenty of guys up here swear by steel, but I am not one of them. There are some interesting steel cross options, but just remember to get the inside of the frame treated in case water gets in there; which with an aluminum frame I don't have to worry about. Good luck and let us know what you get.............MTT :thumbsup:


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## edgerat (Feb 18, 2007)

Singular Peregrine, brake compatible, and will clear studded Nokians


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## Doggity (Mar 10, 2006)

Guess I'm alone in preferring a steel 1x8 29'er. That long wheel base and those big 2.1" tires just give me a very stable feel. Don't have any experience with studded tires and ice; if it's more than just ice patches, I don't ride. Wuss....have enough injuries to deal with already.


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## blakcloud (Apr 13, 2006)

Argentius said:


> A fellow in my company mentioned to me something about wanting me to be able to continue to represent the brand over the winter riding season, and he has the power to make this happen, so, I am hopeful I'll be able to work something out soon.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Argentius, I agree with the above statement. I associate you with the company you work for and I like how you don't push your brand but still let us know the good things that are happening. So I hope you were offered something interesting. Did it happen and what did you get?


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## WA/SScrossracer (Oct 4, 2010)

Another Kirkander, I rode my Kelly cross bike fixed to work and back the week of Thanksgiving in the snow-had a 39-16 gear and maxxis larsen TT cross tires, worked well-got me up Jaunita drive when they had closed the road-maybe almost 3" but 2 busses and a bunch of cars parked on the road in a steeper section of the hill. I usually use my cross check with gears though-now without snow using that with 25c road tires. Disc would be nice, but I like the bikes I have and have several wheel sets to use.


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