# Cannondale Supersix headset rocking when pressure applied



## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

hi,

Today I noticed on my Cannondale Supersix 105 Compact Road Bike Replica (2012) headset started to come loose when out cycling. The handlebars would slip into awkward cycling positions. It wasn't critical and I got home. I tightened it so that the handlebars didn't rotate.

The problem I am having is that there is a small rocking motion when I apply pressure on the handle bars (especially the bottom handlebars). 

I think I got the headset to stop slipping around but there is some play further back where the headset is connected to the frame (I think its called the stem cap). I have two Allen keys that fit the stem cap but its already a tight fit and I cannot get rid of the play in the headset?

Any ideas ?


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## FUFB (May 5, 2013)

aindriu80 said:


> hi,
> 
> Today I noticed on my Cannondale Supersix 105 Compact Road Bike Replica (2012) headset started to come loose when out cycling. The handlebars would slip into awkward cycling positions. It wasn't critical and I got home. I tightened it so that the handlebars didn't rotate.
> 
> ...


Let me preface by saying it's a little difficult to follow your description ... 

When you say the handlebars are rotating? Do you mean rotating about the steerer (the stem is sliding on the steerer), or along the stem (the handlebars are rotating in the stem clamp)? I'm guessing the steerer.

Are you saying the fork has play (up/down movement)? Is there play where the fork meets the headtube? If so, you need to loosen the stem bolts (on the steerer), then tighten the top cap until all play is gone in the fork, and then re-torque the stem bolts (alternating, and to proper torque specs).


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

The allen bolt on your stem cap is what sets your bearing preload. Loosen the two stem bolts, tighten the stem cap bolt until there is no more play in your headset (hold your front brake on and try rocking headset back and forth). Don't tighten so much that your headset is binding. Tighten and torque the two stem bolts and you're good to go.


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## FUFB (May 5, 2013)

Here's a decent video of basic integrated headset tightening. He doesn't use a torque wrench, which I would advise against, especially if you have a carbon steerer.


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## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

If I grab the handle bars in the lower grip position while standing next to the bike I can lift the handlebars up slightly. 

I can see the play at the stem of the top cap where there is a piece of plastic funnel shaped. The only thing that can be touched around is stem cap but its already tight. 

From what I can read I have to loosen with the bigger Allen key then tighten with the smaller allen key (the inside part of the stem) ?


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## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

I am just watching the video. Yeah its the exact problem I am having at moment


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## FUFB (May 5, 2013)

aindriu80 said:


> If I grab the handle bars in the lower grip position while standing next to the bike I can lift the handlebars up slightly.
> 
> I can see the play at the stem of the top cap where there is a piece of plastic funnel shaped. The only thing that can be touched around is stem cap but its already tight.
> 
> From what I can read I have to loosen with the bigger Allen key then tighten with the smaller allen key (the inside part of the stem) ?


Wait, you aren't loosening the compression plug of a carbon steerer, are you? When you say "inside of stem", are you putting your allen through the top of of the top cap (a hole shaped like an allen wrench), and then trying to loosen/tighten a smaller bolt inside?


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## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

I haven't done anything yet. I am just figuring out what I can do about it


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## FUFB (May 5, 2013)

aindriu80 said:


> I haven't done anything yet. I am just figuring out what I can do about it


I'm assuming you have a carbon steerer? I don't know the SystemSix headset, or what you're using, but if it's similar to the CAAD10, there's a compression plug that expands within the steerer, and the bolt that expands/contracts this plug is visible through the hex wrench hole in the top cap. Do not mess with this compression plug bolt. To adjust the top cap, use the larger allen in the top cap hole.


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## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

The bike in the video is different to mine. If I copy that guy it only makes the headset crooked. I think I have to do work with the stem cap


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## FUFB (May 5, 2013)

aindriu80 said:


> The bike in the video is different to mine. If I copy that guy it only makes the headset crooked. I think I have to do work with the stem cap


Sorry, I didn't look closely enough. That is not an integrated headset in the video. I searched too quickly. Let me find a better video.


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## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

Yes its a full carbon bike.

I may have to go to the LBS and have them take a look at it but don't want to pay the cash. I have a spare stem cap that I bought but didn't use. The two allen keys fit and you can see how it expands inside. I guess that would stop the movement but I am unsure about even touching it.


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## FUFB (May 5, 2013)

aindriu80 said:


> Yes its a full carbon bike.
> 
> I may have to go to the LBS and have them take a look at it but don't want to pay the cash. I have a spare stem cap that I bought but didn't use. The two allen keys fit and you can see how it expands inside. I guess that would stop the movement but I am unsure about even touching it.


Most likely your safest move is to take it to the shop. This is definitely true if you don't own a torque wrench.

Is the compression plug actually loose inside the steerer? Who tuned this headset last?


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## FUFB (May 5, 2013)

Take a look at this diagram; it will help you visualize what is going on:

View attachment 280298


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## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

When I got the bike new I assembled it out of a box. In the beginning I had a sore neck (and still do sometimes) so I tried to loosen the stem cap and raise the headset . It was awkward and I gave up on raising it and thought I put it back the way I got it. 

Its only today that under close examination that I noticed the play. The roads have been poor. Maybe the play has been there for a while or not I can't tell.


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## FUFB (May 5, 2013)

aindriu80 said:


> When I got the bike new I assembled it out of a box. In the beginning I had a sore neck (and still do sometimes) so I tried to loosen the stem cap and raise the headset . It was awkward and I gave up on raising it and thought I put it back the way I got it.
> 
> Its only today that under close examination that I noticed the play. The roads have been poor. Maybe the play has been there for a while or not I can't tell.


You didn't answer if the compression plug is loose.

Frankly, I don't understand how you assembled a (carbon) bike from scratch, but don't understand how to adjust/tighten the headset?? Did you use a torque wrench? Did you cut the steerer yourself? When you raised the stem, how much steerer was left in the stem? So many questions. I think you should take a picture of the headset area and post it.


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## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

FUFB said:


> You didn't answer if the compression plug is loose.
> 
> Frankly, I don't understand how you assembled a (carbon) bike from scratch, but don't understand how to adjust/tighten the headset?? Did you use a torque wrench? Did you cut the steerer yourself? When you raised the stem, how much steerer was left in the stem? So many questions. I think you should take a picture of the headset area and post it.


No the compression plug is not loose. I find it a bit confusing as it is tight when I used both Allen Keys on it but there is still play in the headset.

I had no problem putting the bike together. There was only a few big parts that came in the box to be assembled. The Allen keys felt right when applying pressure and I had it together without any hassle. 

I only used Allen keys and no wrench of any kind.

I didn't want to mess around with the headset too much when I couldn't raise it easy. Maybe I might have introduced the play in the headset myself when attempting to raise the headset's height. I'm not sure if it will do the bike any damage.

I will have to go to the LBS Tuesday.


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## FUFB (May 5, 2013)

aindriu80 said:


> No the compression plug is not loose. I find it a bit confusing as it is tight when I used both Allen Keys on it but there is still play in the headset.
> 
> I had no problem putting the bike together. There was only a few big parts that came in the box to be assembled. The Allen keys felt right when applying pressure and I had it together without any hassle.
> 
> ...


A torque wrench is used in combination with a number of interfaces (sockets), including allen keys. It helps ensure you don't apply too much stress to bolts, steerers, the frame, etc. This is especially important for carbon. For instance, see the torque spec below on the compression plug? 6.8Nm. If you over-torque that bolt, you can expand it and crack your carbon steerer. Likewise, if you apply too much torque to your stem steerer bolts, you can also crack the steerer. And it doesn't take much ... they are typically speced for 5Nm.

Just curious ... how exactly did you raise your stem? You were provided spacers? And by how much? There are a number of issues here. Potentially too many spacers under the stem can cause issues for carbon steerers. You may have also had limited contact between the stem and the steerer by raising it too high. I'm just guessing because I don't know how high you tried to raise it. Ideally, the steerer should be about 2-3mm below the top of the stem, with NO spacers on top of the stem (this is a Cannondale specific thing with the top cap).


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## FUFB (May 5, 2013)

aindriu80 said:


> No the compression plug is not loose. I find it a bit confusing as it is tight when I used both Allen Keys on it but there is still play in the headset.


You need to clarify. When you say you "use both Allen keys" ... both on what? The top cap is only one allen bolt. If the compression plug is tight, and properly positioned, you should be able to loosen the two stem bolts (around the steerer), tighten down the top cap with the ONE allen wrench, and then re-tighten the stem bolts (with a torque wrench). If the top cap is not pulling the headset tight, then most likely either your compression plug is loose (you say it's not), OR you have the compression plug positioned too high (so the top cap is running into the plug when tightened), OR your steerer is too high in the stem (closer than say 1-2mm below the top of the stem) and the top cap is hitting the top of the steerer.


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## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

FUFB said:


> A torque wrench is used in combination with a number of interfaces (sockets), including allen keys. It helps ensure you don't apply too much stress to bolts, steerers, the frame, etc. This is especially important for carbon. For instance, see the torque spec below on the compression plug? 6.8Nm. If you over-torque that bolt, you can expand it and crack your carbon steerer. Likewise, if you apply too much torque to your stem steerer bolts, you can also crack the steerer. And it doesn't take much ... they are typically speced for 5Nm.
> 
> Just curious ... how exactly did you raise your stem? You were provided spacers? And by how much? There are a number of issues here. Potentially too many spacers under the stem can cause issues for carbon steerers. You may have also had limited contact between the stem and the steerer by raising it too high. I'm just guessing because I don't know how high you tried to raise it. Ideally, the steerer should be about 2-3mm below the top of the stem, with NO spacers on top of the stem (this is a Cannondale specific thing with the top cap).


A torque wrench is pretty handy but I didn't want to invest in one as I didn't think I would be changing the bike too much.

I don't have any spacers and never got the stem out. It looks like there is not much room for spacers though. I was more taking a look at what I could adjust that actually making the change. I think after a few turns of the allen key I got a gut feeling that it was not really designed to be adjusted that easy and I left it.

When I have my hands on the top bar I don't get a sore neck but when I have my hands on the lower bar I get a sharp pain and did want to change that but I was thinking of leaving it.


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## FUFB (May 5, 2013)

aindriu80 said:


> A torque wrench is pretty handy but I didn't want to invest in one as I didn't think I would be changing the bike too much.


One bolt too tight and you just trashed your fork - and how much was that fork? You do the math. Never mind the value of the frame.



aindriu80 said:


> I don't have any spacers and never got the stem out. It looks like there is not much room for spacers though. I was more taking a look at what I could adjust that actually making the change. I think after a few turns of the allen key I got a gut feeling that it was not really designed to be adjusted that easy and I left it.


So you never actually raised the stem? You just tried to raise it, and then gave up, never rode on it, correct?


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

OP it's really dangerous to mess with things you don't understand. And threadless headsets are about the most misunderstood system on a modern bike.

here is a video. look & learn.


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## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

FUFB said:


> One bolt too tight and you just trashed your fork - and how much was that fork? You do the math. Never mind the value of the frame.
> 
> 
> 
> So you never actually raised the stem? You just tried to raise it, and then gave up, never rode on it, correct?


I am aware of the damage you can do to a bike and never put too much pressure on any Allen Key.

No never raised the stem - I gave up. I did ride the bike though.


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## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

bikerjulio said:


> OP it's really dangerous to mess with things you don't understand. And threadless headsets are about the most misunderstood system on a modern bike.
> 
> here is a video. look & learn.


The cannondale system feels a bit awkward. The KP017 part is awkward to loosen. I will have to go to the LBS. But its not cheap each time.


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## FUFB (May 5, 2013)

aindriu80 said:


> I am aware of the damage you can do to a bike and never put too much pressure on any Allen Key.
> 
> No never raised the stem - I gave up. I did ride the bike though.


I'm assuming you had never seen that torque rating for the compression plug, correct? But let's assume you did - do you know how much "too much", and likewise "too little", is for that bolt?


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## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

FUFB said:


> I'm assuming you had never seen that torque rating for the compression plug, correct? But let's assume you did - do you know how much "too much", and likewise "too little", is for that bolt?


No I don't know how much pressure to use on the compression plug but only used hand pressure. I examined the spare I had and could see what would happen if I put too much pressure on it.


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## FUFB (May 5, 2013)

aindriu80 said:


> No I don't know how much pressure to use on the compression plug but only used hand pressure. I examined the spare I had and could see what would happen if I put too much pressure on it.


I would be willing to put $100 that you weren't within 30% of the recommended torque, in either direction, on most of your bolts. I've tested mechanics who have put together hundreds of bikes, and they have failed too (and they knew the torque they were trying to meet). Hey, it's your $1000+ bike. And, more importantly, it's your safety on the line.


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## Andrew Mc Glone (May 6, 2013)

FUFB said:


> I would be willing to put $100 that you weren't within 30% of the recommended torque, in either direction, on most of your bolts. I've tested mechanics who have put together hundreds of bikes, and they have failed too (and they knew the torque they were trying to meet). Hey, it's your $1000+ bike. And, more importantly, it's your safety on the line.


You're probably right. Not much I can do with what I have done to date though. I will have to go to the LBS tomorrow.


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

Okay, so "Aindriu80" morphed into "Andrew".


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

OP you need to loosen the stem bolts BEFORE trying to turn the top cap (KP017). The clamping pressure of the tightened stem on the steerer tube also grips the top cap .


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## ph0enix (Aug 12, 2009)

aindriu80 said:


> The cannondale system feels a bit awkward. The KP017 part is awkward to loosen. I will have to go to the LBS. But its not cheap each time.


You're being penny wise and pound foolish. If you don't know how to do your own maintenance (and clearly you don't), you should pay a shop to do it. It's cheaper than replacing parts on the bike because you broke something. If you don't want to pay, learn to do it yourself, get a work stand and the tools. When going this route there is an initial investment in terms of time and $$$. 
You may think you saved money by buying the bike online (or wherever you got it) instead of a reputable shop but in the long run that's probably not the case. When you buy a bike from a shop, they will put it together for you (correctly - most of the time) and most likely make basic adjustments for you at no charge periodically for as long as you have the bike. They will also deal with the manufacturers of specific components (Shimano, FSA, etc...) for you if they fail. In many cases, manufacturers do not want to speak directly with end users. If you have a good shop, they might even give you a loaner bike and or loaner parts if your bike isn't rid-able while parts are being shipped. I had that happen last month. My SRAM crank failed and the shop negotiated a warranty replacement even though the bike's warranty period expired a while ago. On top of it, they gave me a higher end crank than my original one because they were out of the same model ...and while I waited for the new crank, they installed a loaner crank on my bike so I could keep riding until it came in. Something to think about.


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## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

ph0enix said:


> You're being penny wise and pound foolish. If you don't know how to do your own maintenance (and clearly you don't), you should pay a shop to do it. It's cheaper than replacing parts on the bike because you broke something. If you don't want to pay, learn to do it yourself, get a work stand and the tools. When going this route there is an initial investment in terms of time and $$$.
> You may think you saved money by buying the bike online (or wherever you got it) instead of a reputable shop but in the long run that's probably not the case. When you buy a bike from a shop, they will put it together for you (correctly - most of the time) and most likely make basic adjustments for you at no charge periodically for as long as you have the bike. They will also deal with the manufacturers of specific components (Shimano, FSA, etc...) for you if they fail. In many cases, manufacturers do not want to speak directly with end users. If you have a good shop, they might even give you a loaner bike and or loaner parts if your bike isn't rid-able while parts are being shipped. I had that happen last month. My SRAM crank failed and the shop negotiated a warranty replacement even though the bike's warranty period expired a while ago. On top of it, they gave me a higher end crank than my original one because they were out of the same model ...and while I waited for the new crank, they installed a loaner crank on my bike so I could keep riding until it came in. Something to think about.


I called out to the LBS this morning but he wasn't there. I have to wait until Thursday. I will pay him to fix the play in it. 

I got the bike online as I would not be able to purchase one in a shop. There was a markup of around €500 and thats outrageous for me.

You got a good deal with the crank. LBS offers to spare bike. I had to jog home last time I left my bike off (to fix the down shifting of the rear gears). Its still not working 100%.


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## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

I went to the LBS today and he tightened it up for me. He just used Allen keys and I had the right idea but wrong method. It makes a massive difference and the bike feels so much better on the road.


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## ph0enix (Aug 12, 2009)

aindriu80 said:


> I went to the LBS today and he tightened it up for me. He just used Allen keys and I had the right idea but wrong method. It makes a massive difference and the bike feels so much better on the road.


Was it expensive?
I saw the pic you posted in the picture thread. That's some serious saddle pack! I also noticed that your stem is already very high and it doesn't look like there is room for anymore spacers under it. If the bike still isn't comfortable and saddle adjustments don't help, perhaps it's not the right size or the geometry isn't suitable for you. The SuperSix is a racing machine despite it being very comfortable. It was not designed with 70 or 80mm of spacers in mind. Quite possibly a Synapse would work better for you.


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## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

ph0enix said:


> Was it expensive?
> I saw the pic you posted in the picture thread. That's some serious saddle pack! I also noticed that your stem is already very high and it doesn't look like there is room for anymore spacers under it. If the bike still isn't comfortable and saddle adjustments don't help, perhaps it's not the right size or the geometry isn't suitable for you. The SuperSix is a racing machine despite it being very comfortable. It was not designed with 70 or 80mm of spacers in mind. Quite possibly a Synapse would work better for you.



It might not look pretty but I have spare tube and rain jacket in the saddle pack and wouldn't leave home without it. I regularly do 100km cycles and it leaves me free.

I tried the saddle lower but where it is at the moment seems to work. I can reach the pedal with my heel and the extra bit of reach I get with the saddle really translates into a lot more welly on the road. 

The supersix feels like a proper machine. It was expensive for me when I saw it on a sale at €1,700 I couldn't refuse. I haven't heard much about the Synapse.


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