# Better bike - better speed ? Cannondale



## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

hi,

I own a Cannondale Super Six 105 Carbon 2012 now for two years and think its a great bike (bar the gears). I was wondering though about improving my speed and would a better bike (namely the Cannondale SUPERSIX EVO HI-MOD DURA ACE DI2 2014 ) improve my speed on road segments ? I'm not buying anything yet but I was wondering what if any speed improvements I could gain ?


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## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

None.

Whats wrong with your gears?


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## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

brianmcg said:


> None.
> 
> Whats wrong with your gears?


There is bound to be some gain! 

The gears I have jump and skip, tightening the gear cable helps a bit but they are not silky smooth. Trying to get a gear up a hill is slow.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

You just need to have the gears adjusted (or perhaps replace worn out parts if it's the case). Then if you want to go faster, pedaling harder and faster will make much more difference than any bike will. The difference a bike makes in the speeds you can go is a tiny fraction of the difference you can make yourself by riding more and training.


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## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

Well, if you took a 30lb touring bike with downtube shifters compared to a 15lb bike with 11spd properly adjusted DI2, then yes you will see some difference.

But if you went from a properly tuned 105 bike to a DA bike, not much difference if any.

But don't let that stop you from buying a new bike if you want something nice to ride. If it was me, I would get your 105 bike tuned up properly and use if for the rain, and buy something nice like with DI2 for your sunny days.

Just my 2cents.

By the way, I checked out your strava account from the other thread and your doing everything right. Your really putting in a lot of mileage. Start riding with a team or in a group to get even faster.


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## macca33 (Oct 24, 2012)

What happens when the gears on the (admittedly) fantastic SS Evo HM go out of tune - will you then be looking for a 'better' bike???

Perhaps you'll save some cash and learn a few things if you invest some time and research tuning your bike yourself and then using the gearset as it is supposed to be used whilst riding....but, whatever floats your boat, I guess..

cheers


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

The only thing different about the Hi-Mod that MAY make you go just a hair faster is a little less weight. The Hi-Mod is so called because Cannondale uses more high modulus carbon fibers. High modulous carbon fibers are stronger and therefore, less are needed to make a strong frame. Less needed means less weight - apoproximately 2 lbs less weight than the standard mod frame. You will hardly notice a difference unless you are 1) a feather light rider or 2) a competitive racer. Your average speed may increase maybe 0.2mph overall - hardly worth a $4,000 investment unless you have money to burn and have a wicked case of the new bike bug.

About your gears, the first thing I would do is replace your cables with stainless steel cables. Most bikes come from the factory with cheaper galvanized cables which will eventually rust and as a result, develop friction inside the cable housings leading to poor shifting. Cheaper cables are also rougher out of the package which will also lead to more friction. The shifting issue you describe sounds like a classic case of ghost shifting which is most likely caused by what I just described.

Many people underestimate the importance of good quality cables. The only other thing that may cause ghost shifting are a worn out cassette. For this to be an issue, you would have to have significant mileage on your bike as in over 5K miles.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Lombard said:


> The only thing different about the Hi-Mod that MAY make you go just a hair faster is a little less weight. The Hi-Mod is so called because Cannondale uses more high modulus carbon fibers. High modulous carbon fibers are stronger and therefore, less are needed to make a strong frame. Less needed means less weight - apoproximately 2 lbs less weight than the standard mod frame. You will hardly notice a difference unless you are 1) a feather light rider or 2) a competitive racer. Your average speed may increase maybe 0.2mph overall - hardly worth a $4,000 investment unless you have money to burn and have a wicked case of the new bike bug.
> 
> About your gears, the first thing I would do is replace your cables with stainless steel cables. Most bikes come from the factory with cheaper galvanized cables which will eventually rust and as a result, develop friction inside the cable housings leading to poor shifting. Cheaper cables are also rougher out of the package which will also lead to more friction. The shifting issue you describe sounds like a classic case of ghost shifting which is most likely caused by what I just described.
> 
> Many people underestimate the importance of good quality cables. The only other thing that may cause ghost shifting are a worn out cassette. For this to be an issue, you would have to have significant mileage on your bike as in over 5K miles.


You got a typo in there, Hi-Mod wont be 2lbs lighter than a non Hi-Mod, difference is closer to 150-250gr depending on size and color. 2lbs is huge and would actually make a feelable difference on climbs... but your point is pretty spot on with the actual smaller difference, very doubtful anyone can feel the difference between a Hi-Mod and non Hi-Mod on the road.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

aindriu80 said:


> hi,
> 
> I own a Cannondale Super Six 105 Carbon 2012 now for two years and think its a great bike (bar the gears). I was wondering though about improving my speed and would a better bike (namely the Cannondale SUPERSIX EVO HI-MOD DURA ACE DI2 2014 ) improve my speed on road segments ? I'm not buying anything yet but I was wondering what if any speed improvements I could gain ?


Is spending $5000 for a slight gain in speed worth it? Maybe it is to you.

For a lot less, you can do some maintenance. Replace the cables & housing with a fresh set (and might as well get new tape). Maybe upgrade the wheelset. The Mavic Askium is a solid wheelset, but a lighter wheelset can help you with your climbs..... or a well-balanced wheelset (price vs weight vs aero vs stifness) can make the most out of your abilities.

But if you're that anxious to drop $5000 for possibly no noticeable difference in speed.... that's your call.


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## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

tednugent said:


> Is spending $5000 for a slight gain in speed worth it? Maybe it is to you.
> 
> For a lot less, you can do some maintenance. Replace the cables & housing with a fresh set (and might as well get new tape). Maybe upgrade the wheelset. The Mavic Askium is a solid wheelset, but a lighter wheelset can help you with your climbs..... or a well-balanced wheelset (price vs weight vs aero vs stifness) can make the most out of your abilities.
> 
> But if you're that anxious to drop $5000 for possibly no noticeable difference in speed.... that's your call.


Hi,

I like the look of the HiMod Evo but reading this thread has me looking at my gears not a new bike. I recently upgraded the Mavic Askium wheels that came with the bike to the next model from Mavic - the deep rim ones. I feel the bike is faster and they feel good.

I have the Shimano 105 5700 for gears that came with the bike. The next model up is Ultegra and up again is dura ace but do they operate better than the 105 ? I wouldn't say I have maxed out my current bike (in performance terms) but the gears should work better.


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## tturner (Mar 18, 2012)

"The deep rim ones".. not sure what that is, but inexpensive deep wheels are usually quite heavy. unless you only ride flats they make little sense. I will hazard a guess that those were probably a disappointing purchase for you.. maybe why you are now considering upgrading an already great bike??? 

clean and tune your 105 gearing.. 105 should work great and is light enough.. I have dura-ace 8700 (mech) and 2013 105.. I heard it said once the only difference is da has less plastic and more aluminum.. feels more crisp but shifting is great on both.

If you want an amazing ride, better use of your money would be some amazing wheels.. For rim breaks and carbon, I prefer tubular wheels.. enve 45 may be my next purchase.. but tubulars are to much of a pita for many.. so choose wisely. It is much more satisfying to have an intelligently thought out ride that is right for you than throwing money at the problem hoping it nets you some speed. imho light wheels are just more fun to ride than heavyish base level deep sections. 

Fun makes me ride, and riding makes me faster.. so spending money on parts that makes my bike more fun to ride makes me faster.. and that is how I justify it.


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## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

tturner said:


> "The deep rim ones".. not sure what that is, but inexpensive deep wheels are usually quite heavy. unless you only ride flats they make little sense. I will hazard a guess that those were probably a disappointing purchase for you.. maybe why you are now considering upgrading an already great bike???
> 
> clean and tune your 105 gearing.. 105 should work great and is light enough.. I have dura-ace 8700 (mech) and 2013 105.. I heard it said once the only difference is da has less plastic and more aluminum.. feels more crisp but shifting is great on both.
> 
> ...


I spent time checking out what wheel to get online and picked the deep rim. I had to replace spokes on my previous wheels (which were ok to a point) and finally they couldn't be fixed anymore so I went deep rim. They are meant to be stronger. I don't think they are heavier or slower but I was unwilling to spend more than the €400. I am happy with them so far. I tend to hit the wheel against things by accident and hopefully they will last.

I will try and get the LBS to tune the 105 gearing. It sounds good enough as a component so I will stick with it.


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## Diopena1 (Jul 21, 2011)

Now that I think of it, You had Mavic wheels, and changed to Deeper section Mavics.... Probably Cosmic elites?... They might be a little bit heavier than the Aksiums, but you'll benefit a bit of aero advantage on flats, and downhill sections. 
And I will assume a shop changed out the wheels?.... if so, did they put the required spacer behind the cassette? <- if this was not put in place, your shifting will be off. 

Other than that, Shifter cables (as mentioned earlier in the thread) make a decent difference in the shifting speed of your equipment, if setup correctly. 

I think at some point its best to learn how to wrench on our own rides.... save money, appreciate the "science" behind it, and eventually add our own touch to the tune.


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## Scott in MD (Jun 24, 2008)

You might ride 1/4 MPH faster ... Maybe. But start with a professional fit. That will make you faster. Happy trails.


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## aindriu80 (Sep 15, 2012)

Diopena1 said:


> Now that I think of it, You had Mavic wheels, and changed to Deeper section Mavics.... Probably Cosmic elites?... They might be a little bit heavier than the Aksiums, but you'll benefit a bit of aero advantage on flats, and downhill sections.
> And I will assume a shop changed out the wheels?.... if so, did they put the required spacer behind the cassette? <- if this was not put in place, your shifting will be off.
> 
> Other than that, Shifter cables (as mentioned earlier in the thread) make a decent difference in the shifting speed of your equipment, if setup correctly.
> ...


 I don't really notice the extra weight (ksyrium equipe s) and I think they operate better. For me it was a step up from what I had and wouldn't change them back, I didn't get Cosmic elite.


Yes the LBS fitted the wheels for me along with some other parts. I don't know if he put in the spacer or not but when I got the bike back off him I had a better cycle. Now the problems are starting to add up again. Today I had random gear changes at the back, front gear switched from largest gear to the smaller one even though I never touch it. 

Sometimes it feels like -after a gear change up -the teeth on the cassette don't have enough teeth to drag the chain up. But I think that is lack of tension ? Other times it does go up but rattles for a few spins before it settles. Sometimes it goes up twice instead of once. 

There are some problems down shifting but nothing like up shifting.


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## Diopena1 (Jul 21, 2011)

Definitely sounds like the Mechanic overlooked something.... take it back, and have them go over it!


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

When is the last time you have the shop go over the bike ? Skipping could cause by worn out cassette or chain?


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

Frame and groupset won't make you go faster (unless you're on a TT bike). Wheels, however, do affect your speed. As does your helmet.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Dan Gerous said:


> You got a typo in there, Hi-Mod wont be 2lbs lighter than a non Hi-Mod, difference is closer to 150-250gr depending on size and color. 2lbs is huge and would actually make a feelable difference on climbs... but your point is pretty spot on with the actual smaller difference, very doubtful anyone can feel the difference between a Hi-Mod and non Hi-Mod on the road.


But the big "71" on the seat tube will make you go faster.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

aindriu80 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I like the look of the HiMod Evo but reading this thread has me looking at my gears not a new bike. I recently upgraded the Mavic Askium wheels that came with the bike to the next model from Mavic - the deep rim ones. I feel the bike is faster and they feel good.
> 
> I have the Shimano 105 5700 for gears that came with the bike. The next model up is Ultegra and up again is dura ace but do they operate better than the 105 ? I wouldn't say I have maxed out my current bike (in performance terms) but the gears should work better.


Reducing rotating weight is the best kind of weight to reduce, so your wheel upgrade will probably be your biggest return.

As far as a higher end groupset, I would pass on that. If your shifting is not to your liking, three words: cables, cables, cables. Adjusting them properly doesn't hurt either.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Lombard said:


> Reducing rotating weight is the best kind of weight to reduce, so your wheel upgrade will probably be your biggest return.


Not necessarily. If you're riding lots of hills, starts/stops, and speed changes lighter wheels may benefit. 
But if your rides consist of long flat sections and consistent speeds, heavier wheels aren't a detriment. In fact they may be beneficial. Just like a flywheel, once in motion it takes less effort to keep in motion. Just look at deep section and TT wheels. They're not particularly light.


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## Horze (Mar 12, 2013)

Scott in MD said:


> You might ride 1/4 MPH faster ... Maybe. But start with a professional fit. That will make you faster. Happy trails.


He still has to work the fit to get the most out of it. Don't forget.


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