# any problems with crosswinds on the S2?



## carlflow (Jun 12, 2012)

Hello

I am considering purchasing the S2 mainly because it is the best deal for me and the R3 is out of my budget. The aerodynamics mean nothing to me.

What concerns me is the downtube as you can see. Does anyone who has the S2 have any problems because of crosswinds?


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

I ride an S3, and the crosswinds are definitely more noticeable. No worse (far better actually) than my 46mm deep wheels, but still greater than a bike with more traditional tubes. 

If the aero benefits don't mean anything to you, than I might suggest you are looking at the wrong bike. The S2 gives up a substantial amount of ride comfort for the aero benefits that it gained. What about other "non-aero" bikes in your price range? The S2 is a great aero bike, but there are better bikes if aero truly means nothing to you.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

BMC bikes and Boardman SLR bikes have a similar geometry to the R3 and are cheaper I believe. Performance Bike is running a great deal on some Fuji's right now (ridden to a win in last year's Vuelta) and Litespeed just came out with a traditional line that borrows some from the R3 as well. But if I didn't own a R3 and wanted a bike with tradtional geometry, I would look very closely at Felt (great bang for the buck in my opinion). 

If you want to stick with Cervelo, which again I completely understand as someone that rides one, I think the S2 is great bike for the price. The price on R3s might drop a little more in the next few months as well when the 2013s start to get released. I wish you the best with your choice.


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## carlflow (Jun 12, 2012)

xjbaylor said:


> I ride an S3, and the crosswinds are definitely more noticeable. No worse (far better actually) than my 46mm deep wheels, but still greater than a bike with more traditional tubes.
> 
> If the aero benefits don't mean anything to you, than I might suggest you are looking at the wrong bike. The S2 gives up a substantial amount of ride comfort for the aero benefits that it gained. What about other "non-aero" bikes in your price range? The S2 is a great aero bike, but there are better bikes if aero truly means nothing to you.


Thanks for your input. What bikes do you consider at my current price range? I am currently looking at a cannondale supersix with 105s, a Specialized tarmac compact (tiagra) and a Fuji altamira 3.0

I really dont know where to start. Other than the cervelo now which I am second guessing my second choice would be the fuji also because I am getting a massive discount on it and the fact that it starts out with 105s. I test rode it and it felt really good but not long enough to see if the geometry was right for me. Only thing holding me back is im not really sure about the ride quality of the fuji and if it is a good all around bike like the other 2 I listed.

The tarmac was my very first choice in looking for a new road bike. I had an allez for a while and loved it but had to sell it. I loved the frame and feel (other than the crappy 2300 components) so consideration for the tarmac geo was a no brainer for me. Only problem is the group is tiagra which I could really care less for, its the lowest of all the bikes. You could say I am only considering this bike for the frame and the name.

I recently ran into the supersix at my lbs. Im in between on this and was about to pull the trigger till I saw the cervelo. As with all other bikes I am beginning to have second thoughts about it. Unlike the other bikes I have had no experience with it and would be the most expensive bike if I choose to buy. I hear the supersix is a wonderful bike and is really stiff but no hands on experience.

Sorry I am everywhere with this post


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## carlflow (Jun 12, 2012)

Rashadabd said:


> BMC bikes and Boardman SLR bikes have a similar geometry to the R3 and are cheaper I believe. Performance Bike is running a great deal on some Fuji's right now (ridden to a win in last year's Vuelta) and Litespeed just came out with a traditional line that borrows some from the R3 as well. But if I didn't own a R3 and wanted a bike with tradtional geometry, I would look very closely at Felt (great bang for the buck in my opinion).
> 
> If you want to stick with Cervelo, which again I completely understand as someone that rides one, I think the S2 is great bike for the price. The price on R3s might drop a little more in the next few months as well when the 2013s start to get released. I wish you the best with your choice.


Thank you very much. I am actually considering getting a fuji but was concerned of the build quality of the bikes compared to other manufacturers. 

I will look into Felt as well.


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## RoadrunnerLXXI (Jun 3, 2012)

I have no problem with cross wind on my S2. 2 weeks ago I was riding on a very windy day out on the country roads with no houses or trees to block the wind. I didn't notice the wind pushing on the bike. The bike is very stable at high speed for me.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

No problem, lots of folks helped me out when I was looking (and very confused for months), so I owe to help others I believe. Here's what Bike Radar and Bicycling thought of the Fuji-

Fuji Altamira 3.0 Review - BikeRadar

Gear and Bike Reviews: The Fuji Altamira 1.0 Review at Bicycling.com

Felt's I can speak of fist hand since I owned one before my Cervelo. Really fun bikes to ride and they have two series to consider: the more agressive racier F Series and the more comfort oriented Z Series. I really think you get a lot of bike for your money with Felt and they seem like they are into customer service. One of the key members of their staff (Dave) regularly contributes to the Felt forum on this webage (nice guy btw). Teams Argos Shimano and Exergy ride thier bikes in the pro peleton (both ride the F Series) and a number of pro triathletes ride thier time trial bikes. USA - Felt Bicycles Glad I could help!


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

You can't go wrong with Cannondale or Specialized, both very good companies and their bikes get very positive reviews. I wouldn't make a choice based on components either. They are easy and common to change as you upgrade your bike and you can usually find them at discount rates used or when new sets come out annually. 

Finally test ride the bikes that interest (it sounds like you are doing this already--this is a huge help). Maybe even ride some of the same ones twice as you narrow down your options. All of these bikes are great and what I realized over six month new bike choice saga was that it totally comes down to preference. I would begin by doing an honest assesstment of the kind of rides you plan on doing (crit races, gran fondos, weekend group rides, triathlons or lots of climbing etc). I would determine whether weight or aerodynamics will be more important to you, comfort or speed, etc. After I narrowed my list down based on all of that, there are two things I would consider (for what they are worth): I would both pick the bike that I was going to look at and want to ride it frequently and, more importantly, in my humble opinion, I would pick the bike that was comfortable enough for me to ride for mutliple hours at a time. Take care and I wish you well with your choice.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

And to be completely transparent, after completing the process myself, I ended up with a Cervelo R3 and felt it was worth the extra money, but different strokes for different folks.


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

RoadrunnerLXXI said:


> I have no problem with cross wind on my S2. 2 weeks ago I was riding on a very windy day out on the country roads with no houses or trees to block the wind. I didn't notice the wind pushing on the bike. The bike is very stable at high speed for me.


You may not have noticed it yet, but if you have experience on a lot of different bikes, in a lot of different conditions, I could promise that you would notice it. Not saying it would be a deal killer (it isn't for me) but it is a very real downside to riding an aero bike with such elongated tubes.


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

carlflow said:


> Thanks for your input. What bikes do you consider at my current price range? I am currently looking at a cannondale supersix with 105s, a Specialized tarmac compact (tiagra) and a Fuji altamira 3.0


I was going to list some alternatives in my initial post, but figured I would put that out first to see if you would even consider options other than Cervelo. 

If you want the most bike you can get for your money, AND you are ok with a racy position (slightly more aggressive than the S2) I would recommend the Cannondale CAAD10. As far as I am concerned the CAAD10 Rival with an upgraded wheelset is the best budget race bike in the world. HOWEVER, *you need to ride it first to decide if you like it*. It is an aluminum bike but I found that it rides better than the S2 in my opinion, and is every bit as fast. I would honestly take one over the S2, it is that good. 

The Fuji Altamira, especially with Performance's discounts, is a very good deal. Again, a good wheelset would really make it shine, but that can be dealt with down the road once you really get to know the bike and how you use it. 

The top of the line Tarmac's are great bikes, but at the lower end they are not great deals in my opinion. Good bikes, but not necessarily for the price. 

The Supersix is good, but I think the value proposition of the CAAD10 supersedes the improvements made by the Supersix....until you get the the Supersix Evo...but that is a whole new class of bike, with the frame priced higher than a S2 Ultegra.

Don't hesitate to look at the Cervelo RS. The geometry is very close to the R3, but with a slightly longer wheelbase. It is "missing" some items like a tapered HT and BBRight, but that last one is a plus in my book. The english threaded bottom bracket leaves you with a ton of crankset options if you decide to upgrade down the road. 

Finally, look at Felt and Boardman. You won't be able to ride a Boardman in the states, but their geometry is identical to a number of bikes available in the US, Specialized is one if I remember correctly. Felt is, in my opinion, the most underrated of the major manufacturers. If I were to buy a new race bike it would be either a CAAD10 or a Felt F-series. I like to build my own bikes, so I would just want the frame, but both offer great deals on their full builds.

Good luck, don't hesitate to ask questions either here or via PM.


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## RoadrunnerLXXI (Jun 3, 2012)

Yes, you are right on knowledgeable of all the different bikes since I have only ridden on a Trek 5200 for 4 years and test ridden a Trek Madone 4 series, Cervelo R3 and S2. I understand what you are getting at. It needs a person who have ridden multiple different bike to know the neglectable feel of the cross wind force making you work to ride in a straight line, just like driving a car.

I also think having aero-carbon wheels will have a big effect on your point also. My wheel's wall height is only 30mm, thus it most likely won't have as much of a effect compare to a 60mm aero-carbon wheel.


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## Nob (Nov 24, 2006)

> I am considering purchasing the S2 mainly because it is the best deal for me and the R3 is out of my budget. The aerodynamics mean nothing to me.
> 
> What concerns me is the downtube as you can see. Does anyone who has the S2 have any problems because of crosswinds?


My first thought is, have you tried the RS? Great bike, better price point and a hoot to ride just like the R3 is. 

I have an R3, and a S3 and earlier versions of the SLC. Yes the aero frames get blown around by cross winds. Like the aero wheels you eventually learn to live with it.

But here is a great review worth the read I think.

http://www.cervelo.com/r/Velo_News_2011-04.pdf


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

RoadrunnerLXXI said:


> I also think having aero-carbon wheels will have a big effect on your point also. My wheel's wall height is only 30mm, thus it most likely won't have as much of a effect compare to a 60mm aero-carbon wheel.


That is very true. I have 46mm deep wheels that are terrible with crosswinds, 58mm wheels that are better, and my basic training wheels that are negligibly affected by wind. I will say that the S3 with shallow training wheels beats a traditional bike with either set of aero wheels I have. It may get "pushed" a little more, but it isn't steered by the wind the way a deep wheel is.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

I don't think Cervelo is making the RS anymore, but if you can find one in your size still in inventory, I agree that it would be worth testing.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

The S3 and the S2 are two different bikes in my humble opinion btw (completely different rear ends, etc.)


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## Nob (Nov 24, 2006)

S2 and S3 are (slightly) different bikes...but not for this discussion. Both get blown around some because of the frame shape compared to the R series bikes.

????!!! :nono: 

*The RS is still a production Cervelo bike.*
Which a few pro riders and lots of normal folk prefer over the R3.

The 2012 Bike Line-up

Bikes - Squoval Road Bikes - RS - Cervélo


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

The review you posted wasn't a discussion about being blown around in the wind, but a general test and review of the R3 (which was rated highest). I was just informing him that the S2 that he is considering is not the same bike as the S3 in a number of ways. With regard to the RS, from what I hear, the RS' days are numbered and that Cervelo might be winding down production on them and that the base R3 will be the new RS in next year's line (similar to the changes that were made with the R5 last year and the S Series). Which goes back to my point, if you can find one in your size and like it, then get it now.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

The first R3 should be S3, sorry.


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## Nob (Nov 24, 2006)

Yes rated the highest of the bikes tested because it has a good aero shape very similar (just better than) the other bikes tested. In that light the S2 and S3 are very very similar. The review is a good commentary on aero bikes in general and the R3 specifically. Even if "The aerodynamics mean nothing to me." May be they are worth looking at again.

Look here and then read : aero vs weight

Engineering - Tech Presentations - Cervélo

More....here at th bottom of each page on Cervelo S series bike reviews:

Bikes - Aero Road Bikes - S2 - Cervélo

Bikes - Aero Road Bikes - S3 - Cervélo 

Any Cervelo dealer will happily order you a RS today......... 

BTW the RS has a longer wheel base among other things so it is not a detuned R3 as some might unknowningly suspect.

(ps the edit/delete buttoms were made just for those simple mistakes)


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## bayAreaDude (Apr 13, 2012)

I have an S2 and crosswinds haven't bothered me yet and I also find it to be VERY comfortable. I rode an R3 as well and didn't notice any difference in comfort. Just like you, I just happened to come across a great deal on the S2. I love this bike, I mean I absolutely love it. So comfortable and so fast. Like a rocket. It almost feels like it's not even there like some Cronenberg-esque extension of my body. Felt much faster than the R3 to me.


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## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

I went from a round tube Cannondale to the S2...and I can tell you that it does not make much of a difference. I live in a fairly windy area...and wheel choice makes more of a difference than the tubing shape. I have a pair of 56mm Easton EC90 Aero, 58mm Zipp 404 FC, and 32mm Reynolds R2. 

Using the 32mm on a windy day made the biggest difference. It felt no different on S2 vs the Cannondale. The EC90 would feel like if somebody yanked the bars on a strong gust.

The S3 rear end is mainly for compliance. Aero benefits are negligible. Cervelo says the rear is more aero...but I don't see any numbers on it.

Far as I know the RS is still in production. If your looking for a 51 or 54, they won't be available till the end of the year.


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## Matador-IV (Aug 2, 2010)

It really depends on the riders weight, compared to wind speed.

I weigh 138 lbs, and yes even "mild" crosswind was noticeable for me on the S2.


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

Matador-IV said:


> It really depends on the riders weight, compared to wind speed.
> 
> I weigh 138 lbs, and yes even "mild" crosswind was noticeable for me on the S2.


This is a good point. At 5'10" 165lbs. I still get blown around quite a bit. 

As another poster mentioned, wheels do make a bigger difference, but that doesn't negate the fact that there is a significant difference between the S2 and a traditional bike.

Whether or not that difference should steer you away is up to you, but again, if you don't want the aero benefits, why would you accept the drawbacks?


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## RoadrunnerLXXI (Jun 3, 2012)

Rider's weight could be a factor at play Matador. I only weight 20lbs more than you and I don't feel any difference on a windy day, like today.


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## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

I'm 5'8' 144lbs...and I don't get blown around anymore on my Cannondale than my S2.


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## RoadrunnerLXXI (Jun 3, 2012)

I'm 5'6" 157lbs. Don't feel the effect on bike.


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## malanb (Oct 26, 2009)

I ride in a really windy place, and yes it affects handling a lot, compared to a classic frame. I had a crash due to a cross wind gust when I was gettin some stuff out of my jersey's pocket. I weight 60 kilos. I am careful now not to take both hands of the bar on strong windy days


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## Nob (Nov 24, 2006)

I too ride in the wind and am 85 Kilos (187#). I ride differing wheels, classics, 303s 404s and 808s on occasion. For me the S2 frames is effected by the wind as much as the 303s are, not as much as the 404s. I have not crashed my aero Cervelo frames (P2 is similar as well) but I have had my attention re-focused a number of times by unexpected gusts. A crash wouldn't totally surprise me.

It has been a while but I just did a good sized climb this afternoon on my R3 with a set of Mavic Ksyrium wheels. Been riding a SLC-SL (a lwt version of the S2) with 303s or the P2c for a couple of months now. And I have to say the R3 is a truely a pleasure to ride by comparison.


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## scottzj (Oct 4, 2010)

I dont have any issues on my S2 with 38mm carbon wheels on it. I have a 58 frame and I am 6'3 at 185-190. But of course I ride my P3 too and dont really have any cross wind issues with it either.


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

scottzj said:


> I dont have any issues on my S2 with 38mm carbon wheels on it. I have a 58 frame and I am 6'3 at 185-190. But of course I ride my P3 too and dont really have any cross wind issues with it either.


Your weight probably helps a lot to stabilize the bike. Also, your newest pic of your bike with the 38's convinced my to sell my Zipps (404 FC) and Reynolds (DV46C UL) and just buy a set of 38's.

Can I safely assume you are liking the wheels so far?


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## scottzj (Oct 4, 2010)

Yes I am extremely happy with the 38's. They are a tad more aero than my Reynolds 32's and not much more weight if any. I am pretty convinced that this is a good depth wheel for my area.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

That's one thing I really like about my Zipp 101s, I get enough aero benefit for my uses, but don't get blown around much. They are more than adequate in the weight department and super durable. Great all around training wheels in my opinion.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Here's a review:

http://road.cc/content/review/29012-zipp-101-wheelset


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## bayAreaDude (Apr 13, 2012)

Rashadabd said:


> That's one thing I really like about my Zipp 101s, I get enough aero benefit for my uses, but don't get blown around much. They are more than adequate in the weight department and super durable. Great all around training wheels in my opinion.


Wonder how the Zipp 101's compare to Williams 30's. Same depth and the Williams are slightly lighter and about $750 less expensive.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

I've never ridden Williams, so I really can't comment there. I got my Zipps on ebay (brand new) and ended up only paying around $350 more than Williams for a wheel I've had my eyes on for a while. Different strokes for different folks I guess, but I bought about 70% of my components on ebay (most new, except the Sram Force shifters, which looked new). I saved a ton of money and built the bike I really wanted rather than just buying what came stock from the store. It took a while and that was painful at times because I didn't have the funds to do it all at once. In the end though, I am so happy I took that route and love the finished product.


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

bayAreaDude said:


> Wonder how the Zipp 101's compare to Williams 30's. Same depth and the Williams are slightly lighter and about $750 less expensive.


The Zipps will probably have a slight benefit in the aero department due to their shape, but I emphasize that it will be slight. The main difference will likely be due to the width. Simply put, wide wheels are awesome. I have Zipp 404's and the ride and handling attributable to the wider rim is pretty awesome. Turn in is more consistent and the ride is better, largely because you can lower the pressure more without risking flats. 

If you want a really great deal look at handbuilt wheels using the Velocity A23 rim or the HED C2 (I think.) The width of the Zipp, with a price like the Williams. The Boyd Vitesse would also be a great option.


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

scottzj said:


> Yes I am extremely happy with the 38's. They are a tad more aero than my Reynolds 32's and not much more weight if any. I am pretty convinced that this is a good depth wheel for my area.


That is good to hear. What are the riding conditions like in your area? Steep long climbs, flats, rollers, etc.


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## scottzj (Oct 4, 2010)

xjbaylor said:


> That is good to hear. What are the riding conditions like in your area? Steep long climbs, flats, rollers, etc.


Its pretty much flat with small elevation changes but I dont consider it "hilly". We usually always have some sort of cross winds from 10-15mph, never fails.


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

scottzj said:


> Its pretty much flat with small elevation changes but I dont consider it "hilly". We usually always have some sort of cross winds from 10-15mph, never fails.


Sounds exactly like my part of Dallas. I typically get around 1500-2000 feet of climbing on a 100k ride, but I seek out hills. I would be fine with the 50's or even 58's, but I just tired of dealing with the crosswinds. The 38's seem like a good alternative, and the prices available right now are just unbelievable. Thanks again.


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## scottzj (Oct 4, 2010)

No prob.....funny you mention Dallas, as my wife and some friends are rolling there right now. Got a house alone and plenty of time to ride! Woohoo and team party is Sat night too.


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

scottzj said:


> No prob.....funny you mention Dallas, as my wife and some friends are rolling there right now. Got a house alone and plenty of time to ride! Woohoo and team party is Sat night too.


They came just in time as we "officially" top 100* for the first time this weekend. I can't believe we made it this long.


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