# Newbie convert to Campy?



## RichardHead (Feb 19, 2007)

I've picked up a steel '98 Waterford R22, currently running Shimano 8-spd combo. of "tri-color" 600, Ultegra STI, DA hubs, etc.
I'd like to accumulate/update frame group to a 9 or 10 spd., using NOS/used parts. I hate the Jetsons look of the recent Shimano offerings, and prefer the more "traditional" , better looking aesthetics of the newer Campy group.

Any suggestions on what to look for in a 9 or 10 spd. Chorus/Record level group...Or better yet, what to avoid??
I'm going to keep researching through forums, to guage what others have experienced, so's not to pick up a "bargain" that's a touchy, mechanical nightmare.

Since it's close to Easter, what would Jesus do?


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## strathconaman (Jul 3, 2003)

Jesus wouldn't put carbon on his steel frame. 

That's what you are going to do if you go Chorus or Record in ten speed. They haven't made Alu chorus levers in a while. Go Centaur. Almost exactly the same as Chorus or Record but cheaper, more plentiful and you can still find it in alloy.

He probably wouldn't go 9 speed either, as parts are getting hard to find. Then again, the guy can turn water into wine...


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## RichardHead (Feb 19, 2007)

strathconaman said:


> Jesus wouldn't put carbon on his steel frame.
> 
> That's what you are going to do if you go Chorus or Record in ten speed. They haven't made Alu chorus levers in a while. Go Centaur. Almost exactly the same as Chorus or Record but cheaper, more plentiful and you can still find it in alloy.
> 
> He probably wouldn't go 9 speed either, as parts are getting hard to find. Then again, the guy can turn water into wine...


Thanks for the advice!!

Even though He bequethed a Reynolds Ouzo carbon fork on this frame, I think I'm also leaning towards the alloy look.
Perhaps I'll focus on the Centaur UT 10spd, and have a few xtra $$$ for a trim wheelset.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

RichardHead said:


> I've picked up a steel '98 Waterford R22, currently running Shimano 8-spd combo. of "tri-color" 600, Ultegra STI, DA hubs, etc.
> I'd like to accumulate/update frame group to a 9 or 10 spd., using NOS/used parts. I hate the Jetsons look of the recent Shimano offerings, and prefer the more "traditional" , better looking aesthetics of the newer Campy group.
> 
> Any suggestions on what to look for in a 9 or 10 spd. Chorus/Record level group...Or better yet, what to avoid??
> ...


Jesus would check a few things, such as whether the rear triangle
spacing is wide enough to accept 130 mm hubs. I think that all
10-sp hubs / cassettes require 130 mm. 

Sounds like a great project!


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## RichardHead (Feb 19, 2007)

Yes, plenty of checking will be in order.
Luckily, my Creator has molded me into a gear-queer, as I will also have to covet a Campy-specific tool, or three.


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## nenad (May 5, 2004)

The switch to 130mm rear spacing happened during the early '90s. I'd be very surprised if a '98 Waterford had anything but 130mm in the back.

And it is new enough to put some carbon on it. Campy came out with carbon ergo levers in '99.


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## sgt (Apr 17, 2007)

*+1 on the 10 speed*

Go Centaur or even Veloce... good stuff, comfy and the perfect gateway drug! Welcome to the dark side.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

mix of record, chorus and centaur parts - all alloy 10 spd.










the expensive bits now are the older alloy levers.

Centaur alloy F & RD are current. Centaur brakes still not too expensive and alloy cranksets v cheap.


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

bikerjulio said:


> mix of record, chorus and centaur parts - all alloy 10 spd.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks just about my size. Let me know when you get tired of it.:thumbsup:


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## RichardHead (Feb 19, 2007)

*Nice!!!*



bikerjulio said:


> mix of record, chorus and centaur parts - all alloy 10 spd.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Are the shifters Centaur Century finish?

Is there any link/resource to figure out what the cassette gearing limits are when choosing a Centaur short vs. med cage RD?
(Say I pickup a Centaur UT std. crankset, 53x39, 172.5)

...and sh*t, a 28.6 clamp FD.

Thanks for the input!!!


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## chas0039 (Jun 26, 2007)

I put together a new Waterford frame last year with a Campy drivetrain. Let me know if you are looking for anything in particular as I was able to find quite a bit of interesting Campy parts. BTW, there are still a few Centuar square BB cranks out there rather cheaply and they look beautiful with the Centuar BB. Also the Veloce old style brakes are a steal. I went with the Reynolds carbon fork that you already have and polished it off with Chris King's headset.

I'm doing the same thing this spring with a Ti frame. Enjoy the Waterford.


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## RichardHead (Feb 19, 2007)

chas0039 said:


> I put together a new Waterford frame last year with a Campy drivetrain. Let me know if you are looking for anything in particular as I was able to find quite a bit of interesting Campy parts. BTW, there are still a few Centuar square BB cranks out there rather cheaply and they look beautiful with the Centuar BB. Also the Veloce old style brakes are a steal. I went with the Reynolds carbon fork that you already have and polished it off with Chris King's headset.
> 
> I'm doing the same thing this spring with a Ti frame. Enjoy the Waterford.


Thanks, chas!!

Did you do a 10spd? Throw up some pics, if you have them.
I've got the std. King headset, but I might swap it out for the Sotto Voce-style. At this point, the UT crank set-up looks to be reasonably priced, but it depends on what I come across.
Late last night, I discovered that a 28.6 FD clamp is going to be an issue... I'll have to use a braze-on adapter, ghetto tape, or garden hose. Came across a Veloce 9spd 28.6 FD on the 'bay which might be worth picking up on the cheap.
And I have to figure out which Centaur cage to go with. Any help appreciated!!!


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## chas0039 (Jun 26, 2007)

I went with 10 speed Veloce shifters and matched it with Veloce FD and RD. For the crank I found a Centuar 39/53 silver on Ebay for $30 so I picked up some spares. Just as I was picking up parts, Campy was changing over the Centuar cassettes so I have an assortment of Veloce and Centuars with the standard 12-25 in use now. As I age, I figure to switch over to the 13-26 and then the 13-29 or some home brew version using different cogs.

I settled on the braze on version of the FD for the same reasons you are finding, a shortage of 28.6 parts. The Problem Solver adapter is a very good looking part, and it solved the problem for around $12 but I had to do considerable filing to get the inner surfaces round so I wouldn't totally crush the new paint.

I would also go with 10sp rather than 9sp; the shortage of parts will cause you some problems down the road as these frames last a long time. Ribble.com has quite a few 9 sp parts left if you choose to go that way but I would sure pick up some spares. Xenon and Mirage are already gone in 10 sp so the future of 10sp looks short as well.

As I understand it, the long RD works with all cassettes and the short version works with all but the 13-29. This kind of assumes that you stick with Campy cassettes which jump from 26 to 29 with no choices in between. There are other Campy compatible cassettes that have 26 and 27 teeth so if you ever try one of those you will have to look to someones personal experience. For my money, I would just go with the long RD if you were to go above 26 even though I am sure others have made the short version work. Why stress the parts.

I'll have to get pictures up in a few weeks and borrow a camera from work.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

RichardHead said:


> Are the shifters Centaur Century finish?
> 
> Is there any link/resource to figure out what the cassette gearing limits are when choosing a Centaur short vs. med cage RD?
> (Say I pickup a Centaur UT std. crankset, 53x39, 172.5)
> ...


Shifters are Chorus, Crankset and pedals are Record, and brakes and dérailleurs are Centaur. All natural alloy finish


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## Keeping up with Junior (Feb 27, 2003)

*Shorty*



chas0039 said:


> As I understand it, the long RD works with all cassettes and the short version works with all but the 13-29. This kind of assumes that you stick with Campy cassettes which jump from 26 to 29 with no choices in between....


Officially you can't use the short cage with a 29t but in reality as long as your chain is the correct lenght and you don't cross chain big/big you will be fine. My wife uses a short cage and her regular cassette is a 13-26. If we go hit some hard climbs she will swap it out to a 13-29 for that specific ride.


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## RichardHead (Feb 19, 2007)

*Choice getting easier*

...thanks to all for the help!!! Lots of knowledgable folks here, esp. with the historical permutations. This will help eliminate the "over-shopping" and part accumulation I've been trying to avoid. I've spent the past Fall & Winter in a feverish stripping/restoration/building parts-juggling-decision marathon, to end with a mid-80's steel Colnago, stripped and ready for 1st gen. C-Record, S, Record combo from a wrecked De Rosa, and this Waterford, which looks like it's headed for 10 spd. Centaur alloy drivetrain, skeleton brakes, maybe pedals to round it off.
Can't wait!!


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

with Centaur now you can still get all parts in alloy except levers. v reasonable pricing at Ribble. Campy no longer produce them, and they are getting hard to find & expensive. The 2009 version had shifting issues, though easily fixed. (threads here on all this). Earlier Centaur alloys up to 2006 are good. I'd avoid the quickshift version 2007-8 like the plague. earlier Chorus shifters in alloy are getting double what they were a couple of years ago.


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## RichardHead (Feb 19, 2007)

*All 10 spds. not created equal*



bikerjulio said:


> with Centaur now you can still get all parts in alloy except levers. v reasonable pricing at Ribble. Campy no longer produce them, and they are getting hard to find & expensive. The 2009 version had shifting issues, though easily fixed. (threads here on all this). Earlier Centaur alloys up to 2006 are good. I'd avoid the quickshift version 2007-8 like the plague. earlier Chorus shifters in alloy are getting double what they were a couple of years ago.


OK, thanks!!

I'm starting to get a bit confused with the dates vs. the QS vs. the BB System vs. UltraShift. With Ergo liberally sprinkled in here & there. Seems like there's some compatibility issues with FD and shifters after 2006, among other things, and all 10spd components are not created equal. I'll have to step back, and try to digest this info.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*info..*

The only shifter models to avoid are the '07-'08 Centaur and lower levels. Those shifter have the cheap and limited function escape mechanism from the Xenon level.

QS is nothing but a reduction in the amount of dead travel from the left finger lever. It has no effect on what FDs the shifter can operate. 

If you step up to the new ultrashift levers in 10 speed (Centaur or Veloce), be sure to get 2010 models. Most of the '09 models have weak clicks that are far less desirable.


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## chas0039 (Jun 26, 2007)

Since Ribble has been out of the Veloce ultrashift for 2-3 months, hopefully their next batch will be 2010. Really though, other than an odd assortment of shifters post 2006, things are pretty good. Unfortunate how after all the years Campy has been making shifters, they can still screw things up. If they were cars we would probably be getting a recall.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

C-40 said:


> The only shifter models to avoid are the '07-'08 Centaur and lower levels. Those shifter have the cheap and limited function escape mechanism from the Xenon level.


c40 is the man when it comes to campy advice. now where the hell were ya when i bought the '08 centaur demo group from comp cyclist?!?!?  my biggest complaint with the shifters are the single action shifting campy went to for that year. but i got the whole group for only $500 and it was truly lightly used so it was hard to pass up.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

RichardHead said:


> OK, thanks!!
> 
> I'm starting to get a bit confused with the dates vs. the QS vs. the BB System vs. UltraShift. With Ergo liberally sprinkled in here & there. Seems like there's some compatibility issues with FD and shifters after 2006, among other things, and all 10spd components are not created equal. I'll have to step back, and try to digest this info.


C 40 is correct as always, but just to add a little:

In the earlier '00's the left shifter had "Carbon BB system" on it. Later, i'm guessing '05 or so the mech changed slightly and the left lever says "Ultra". "QS" was a feature of the left lever in '07-'08, before the complete redesign in '09.

IMO the earlier shifters have a better "action", firmer and better defined shifts. My Chorus alloys were NOS "Carbon BB system" types, and I also have both Record types to compare, as well as Centaurs.

So, if you see Alloy 10 spds with "Carbon BB system" in good shape I'd go for it. V lightly used ones do show sometimes on the Bay.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

set of decent looking Centaur alloys just went up on the Bay. 6 days to go. I know this forum doesn't like ebay links so I won't do. just search.


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## Dog Trainer (Dec 8, 2005)

This is my 98 Waterford with Chorus 10 spd. and Eurus wheels. I believe I purchased the Chorus 10 spd. and wheels in 98 or 99. Had the frame and fork repainted last year. I would prefer all alloy but I had the Chorus stuff already laying around. I was watching your bike on ebay but decided the carbon fork wasn't for me.


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## RichardHead (Feb 19, 2007)

*Very nice!!*

Hope to get mine pulled together like that. 
The black paint, hoods, carbon, in combo. with the shiny stuff works on your bike. Good balance. I might go carbon on the shifters, if the price is right.

(not sure if I got a great price on the Waterford, but the Serottas in was in line with started to get away from me. There was a CSi build that made me weep.)

Now you have me thinking that, $$ to dollar, maybe I'd be better off going Chorus square-taper crank/Chorus or Record BB, rather than Centaur UT???

(...And BTW, why no love for Athena....Is she the redheaded stepchild??)


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## RichardHead (Feb 19, 2007)

*Got it....*



bikerjulio said:


> set of decent looking Centaur alloys just went up on the Bay. 6 days to go. I know this forum doesn't like ebay links so I won't do. just search.


THANKS!!


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## RichardHead (Feb 19, 2007)

I'm not looking for the perfect situation, esp. when I'm $$dredging for bargains, but having a idea of what to avoid certainly casts a different light on a "bargain." And I can deal with the idiosyncrasies & shortcomings, as long as the components work together.

Thanks again!!


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Sell the tri-colour 600 stuff to AntonioB - he's looking for some for his Pinarello.


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## RichardHead (Feb 19, 2007)

PlatyPius said:


> Sell the tri-colour 600 stuff to AntonioB - he's looking for some for his Pinarello.


HaHa...Uhhh, seriously???

Is there a link?


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