# Decisions.. What Specialized to choose?



## five5 (Jun 20, 2012)

Hey All!

Getting back into the game... been biking for a long time, have moved between BMX, Road, and MTB for years. I love bikes, I've got damn near 20 of them now, but sold my 04 S Works E5 some years back to upgrade my MTB...

Well, time to get back on the road, looking to get a new bike.

As I mentioned, I had an 04 SWorks E5, full Dura Ace, w/ Mavic Ksyrium Elite rims.. Well, older, kids, responsibilities, and other hobbies are going to keep things a little more humble... for now anyway. Haha! 

So, here's what I'm looking at... I'm giving myself around a $3000 budget... not set in stone, but I'd like to stay around there.

1. 1 of 2 Tarmac Elites... One with SRAM components (Apex/Rival), or the Shimano components (105)

Either of these two, I'd probably upgrade wheels right away, and get rid of the Fulcrum 6's. I've always liked the Mavic Ksyrium, and my LBS has them on sale. With the wheel addition, should put me right around my $3000 budget. Probably upgrade seat as well. Not feelin' the cranks on either.

<a href="https://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g192/morr5/?action=view&current=TarmacEliteShimano.png" target="_blank"><img src="https://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g192/morr5/TarmacEliteShimano.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="https://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g192/morr5/?action=view&current=ShimanoEliteSRAM-1.png" target="_blank"><img src="https://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g192/morr5/ShimanoEliteSRAM-1.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

2. Tarmac Comp - This one has 105/Ultegra, so a little bit nicer component package, and FSA carbon cranks, which I like a lot. This one is at the top of my range ($3000), so I would be stuck with the DT Swiss 3.0... whatever the hell those are. LOL

<a href="https://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g192/morr5/?action=view&current=TarmacCompFSA.png" target="_blank"><img src="https://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g192/morr5/TarmacCompFSA.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

3. Allez Evo Elite - Ok, so go Aluminum, SRAM Rival equiped.. FSA SL-K Carbon Cranks.. at $1800, I could upgrade wheels, and put some carbon bars, stem, seat post, upgrade seat... Could have a nice Aluminum Rocket! Still be under budget.

<a href="https://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g192/morr5/?action=view&current=AllezEvoFSA.png" target="_blank"><img src="https://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g192/morr5/AllezEvoFSA.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

So, more background... With my E5 Aluminum back in 04, I had a great system of paved paths that stretched for dozens of miles. I could easily get 40 miles on smooth paved paths.

Now, I'll be on the road... so that's why I'm liking the idea of carbon. Does the carbon really dampen road vibes enough to make it worth the upgrade? Or does the carbon stem, bars, seatpost, fork enough?

I'm liking that all would be under 18lbs right off the bat... I know that's not extrordinary.. but hell, that Allez is under 18lbs stock, which is pretty awesome.

Anyway, if anyone has experience with any of these, thoughts on my upgrades, or any insight that might help, please chime in. I'm open to whatever! 

Thanks!


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

go test ride them

while you're at it, look at the equivalent Secteur & Roubaix version also


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

Don't know what size you're looking for but...

Specialized S Works Tarmac | eBay


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## five5 (Jun 20, 2012)

Thanks guys, I did test quite a few bikes... narrowed down to the Tarmac/Allez style/geometry.

I have seen some nice deals on eBay, but I like the idea of service, and I've got a pretty good relationship with LBS, and they are pretty good to me.

I'm still deciding whether I'm a 54, or 56... not sure which feels best, and maybe making some adjustments with stem, etc... not sure yet. I'm 5'10", with about a 32" inseam. Pretty long reach, but terrible flexibility.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Terrible flexibility should put you on a Roubaix but I see you are bound and determined to hurt yourself and ride a racing geometry. ; ) 
If off smooth roads, I say a carbon Tarmac and for a taller head tube a 56. Good luck


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## five5 (Jun 20, 2012)

Thanks,

Anybody have any thoughts or opinions on the scenarios above?


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

five5 said:


> Thanks guys, I did test quite a few bikes... narrowed down to the Tarmac/Allez style/geometry.
> 
> I have seen some nice deals on eBay, but I like the idea of service, and I've got a pretty good relationship with LBS, and they are pretty good to me.
> 
> I'm still deciding whether I'm a 54, or 56... not sure which feels best, and maybe making some adjustments with stem, etc... not sure yet. I'm 5'10", with about a 32" inseam. Pretty long reach, but terrible flexibility.


Terrible flexibility is as in the back? Hips?

Since you're dead set on a Tarmac/Allez geometry, imo 54 frame will would be better. 

And...well, the stem would probably have to be flipped to make you sit more upright to compensate for the flexibility issue.

One thing you may want to consider, if your LBS offers it, the full blown BG Fit (versus the usually free of charge with bike purchase basic fit) which my LBS offers it for a steep sounding price of $300. See Specialized Bicycle Components to decide if you want to pursue this option (if available)


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

five5 said:


> I'm still deciding whether I'm a 54, or 56... not sure which feels best, and maybe making some adjustments with stem, etc... not sure yet. I'm 5'10", with about a 32" inseam. Pretty long reach, but terrible flexibility.


A 54cm Roubaix sounds like it might be right down your alley. 

From a purely aesthetic perspective, a Roubaix with a longish neg. rise stem looks better than a Tarmac with a +10* stem. It looks purposeful, and leads me to believe that the owner knew exactly what he was doing when he purchased the bike.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

First, my input on the relaxed versus race geo 'argument'. If you prefer the Allez's/ Tarmacs handling and can attain a comfortable saddle to bar drop with moderate stem/ spacer setups, my advice is to stay with that decision. You're not new to cycling, have test ridden several bikes and know how you feel on them, so IMO odds are good you'd now know if relaxed geo was the better option for you.

That said, I don't see any real reason to go with aluminum. Your price range affords you (pun intended) the luxury of a 105/ Rival equipped, CF frameset with upgraded wheels, so all things considered I think you're starting out with a very nice package. 

As far as the 'value' of CF bolt-ons, my experience is that CF stems and bars offer little (if anything) beyond draining your wallet (good quality bar tape/ gel gloves will do more), and going with a CF frameset gets you the CF fork/ post. Beyond that, If you want to add a dose of comfort, experiment with tire pressures/ sizes.

Last, but not least, leave the sizing/ fit assessment to your fitter, who's working one on one with you. Not 'internet' fitters who've never seen you... on or off the bike.


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## pwork (Feb 25, 2009)

Tarmac with upgraded wheels and set of 25c tires w/ a pro fit.


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## bb1857 (May 13, 2012)

I bought a Tarmac about a month ago and knew exactly what I was doing when I bought it and asked the stem to be flipped to +10. I wanted a bike that would continue to evolve as my riding evolved and my fitness level improved. I had no desire of going out and spending a couple grand on a relaxed geo bike then taking a bath on it down the road because i wanted to get a more aggressive bike. I have ridden my Tarmac with the stem up and down now and just switched it back to up because I have a 100 mile ride this weekend. Get the bike that makes YOU happy, not the keyboard cowboys that are seemingly experts and apparently offended because a bike doesn't have a Tour de France look.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

bb1857 said:


> I bought a Tarmac about a month ago and knew exactly what I was doing when I bought it and asked the stem to be flipped to +10. I wanted a bike that would continue to evolve as my riding evolved and my fitness level improved. I had no desire of going out and spending a couple grand on a relaxed geo bike then taking a bath on it down the road because i wanted to get a more aggressive bike. I have ridden my Tarmac with the stem up and down now and just switched it back to up because I have a 100 mile ride this weekend. Get the bike that makes YOU happy, not the *keyboard cowboys *that are seemingly experts and apparently offended because a bike doesn't have a Tour de France look.


Get along little dogie.


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## FindTheRiver (May 26, 2012)

bb1857 said:


> I bought a Tarmac about a month ago and knew exactly what I was doing when I bought it and asked the stem to be flipped to +10. I wanted a bike that would continue to evolve as my riding evolved and my fitness level improved. I had no desire of going out and spending a couple grand on a relaxed geo bike then taking a bath on it down the road because i wanted to get a more aggressive bike. I have ridden my Tarmac with the stem up and down now and just switched it back to up because I have a 100 mile ride this weekend. Get the bike that makes YOU happy, not the keyboard cowboys that are seemingly experts and apparently offended because a bike doesn't have a Tour de France look.


I hear that. When I was sent home with my Allez, we had the stem "up" since they, and frankly I, didn't know how I'd be riding at first since I haven't had a road bike in a while. After 100 miles or so, I flipped the stem around (turns out I'm more agressive sooner than I thought I'd be).


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## bb1857 (May 13, 2012)

FindTheRiver said:


> I hear that. When I was sent home with my Allez, we had the stem "up" since they, and frankly I, didn't know how I'd be riding at first since I haven't had a road bike in a while. After 100 miles or so, I flipped the stem around (turns out I'm more agressive sooner than I thought I'd be).


What a novel idea, the guy riding the bike knows what and how he wants to feel versus buying a bike to be asthectically appealing to some guy that you have as much chance of meeting in person as he has at becoming a pro cyclist! I have a little more than 300 miles on my bike now and once I am done with my first century Sunday I will flip it back down and start training my body to get used to the more aggressive position.


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## FindTheRiver (May 26, 2012)

bb1857 said:


> What a novel idea, the guy riding the bike knows what and how he wants to feel versus buying a bike to be asthectically appealing to some guy that you have as much chance of meeting in person as he has at becoming a pro cyclist! I have a little more than 300 miles on my bike now and once I am done with my first century Sunday I will flip it back down and start training my body to get used to the more aggressive position.


Yeah. When we did the initial fitting, it worked for me. Like I said, I hadn't owned a road bike in a while (though I'd been mountain biking for several years). I've always been in pretty good shape and flexible, so that combined with muscle memory took over sooner than I thought it would.


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## FindTheRiver (May 26, 2012)

This was me the day I brought it home. After flipping the stem, I've since swapped it out for a Ritchey. I'll try to remember to get a pic tomorrow.


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## five5 (Jun 20, 2012)

Interesting idea.. never thought of that. I've flipped stems on my MTB before, but didn't think about it on road.

Might be something to think about, as today, I went and rode a bunch of bikes again. Turns out, I didn't mind the Roubaix this time. I still don't like how it feels sitting upright, but in the lower position, it feels good.

After riding the Roubaix, I really felt the aggressiveness of the Tarmac. I'm going to have to ride a few times, and maybe see if they'll flip the stem on the Tarmac for me, just to see how that feels.

Either way, it was good to pump the legs a bit on these bikes.

I agree also... Carbon is a no brainer with my price range. I can get into a nice 105/Ultegra/Rival component set, w/ Carbon... I can upgrade wheels in a month or two.


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## FindTheRiver (May 26, 2012)

I plan on putting my time in on this Allez for at least three years. I'll go nuts on the next bike, but that'll be a 2016 model of whatever is out by then.


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## bb1857 (May 13, 2012)

five5- I would definitely recommend flipping the stem on the Tarmac and doing a ride on it that way. I rode the Tarmac, Roubaix, and a BH relaxed geo bike the Tarmac was just so fast and responsive and the thing climbs like a mountain goat. I have a Tarmac Expert SL3 with a standard 53/39 front chainring versus a 50/34 on the other two and I actually climbed better on the Tarmac to my surprise. If you can find a 2011 model you might get lucky and find an SL3 frame set with full Ultegra for a few hundred under your budget!


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## five5 (Jun 20, 2012)

bb1857 said:


> five5- I would definitely recommend flipping the stem on the Tarmac and doing a ride on it that way. I rode the Tarmac, Roubaix, and a BH relaxed geo bike the Tarmac was just so fast and responsive and the thing climbs like a mountain goat. I have a Tarmac Expert SL3 with a standard 53/39 front chainring versus a 50/34 on the other two and I actually climbed better on the Tarmac to my surprise. If you can find a 2011 model you might get lucky and find an SL3 frame set with full Ultegra for a few hundred under your budget!


Thanks a ton for the info.. you all are a great help!

I'm just getting back from CO, I did some MTBing out there, it was HOT! 

So, I'll be testing a Tarmac with the stem flipped this week.

Now, I have a question on the componentry..

105 vs Rival vs Ultegra vs Force?

What order to they go as far as quality? I'm feeling like it's as I've written above. I know the feel of Shimano well, I'm going to take a spin on some SRAM component Tarmac's this week.

Any input on that?

Thanks!


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

ultegra is higher than 105
force is higher than rival

SRAM vs shimano:

105 sits in between Rival and Apex
ultegra competes with force


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

five5 said:


> Thanks a ton for the info.. you all are a great help!
> 
> I'm just getting back from CO, I did some MTBing out there, it was HOT!
> 
> ...


Any SRAM versus Shimano versus Campy 'arguments' are highly subjective, but FWIW I agree with your tier placement. Dropping down one more level, Shimano's new Tiagra group competes with SRAM's Apex. 

As far as which is better between SRAM and Shimano that's also highly subjective, and I think it comes down to ergonomics and shifting methods. 

Beyond that, it doesn't matter which I prefer, it matters which you prefer. So ride (both), then decide.


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## bb1857 (May 13, 2012)

FWIW - I haven't ridden a SRAM equipped bike so I can't comment on that gear but i hear good things. My bike is full Ultegra and when i was test riding all the bikes, the Roubaix and BH bike were both 105 gruppos. The Ultegra shifted a bit more positive and quicker but only marginally. The big difference in the two from what my LBS tell me is the feel and performance after you get many miles on the bikes. The Ultegra gruppo will feel much closer to new a year later than the 105 gruppo will. I certainly can't comment on this firsthand yet as I have only had my bike for a month and a half or so. I will say that after about 450 miles it feels the day it did when I bought it!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

bb1857 said:


> FWIW - I haven't ridden a SRAM equipped bike so I can't comment on that gear but i hear good things. My bike is full Ultegra and when i was test riding all the bikes, the Roubaix and BH bike were both 105 gruppos. The Ultegra shifted a bit more positive and quicker but only marginally. *The big difference in the two from what my LBS tell me is the feel and performance after you get many miles on the bikes. The Ultegra gruppo will feel much closer to new a year later than the 105 gruppo will.* I certainly can't comment on this firsthand yet as I have only had my bike for a month and a half or so. I will say that after about 450 miles it feels the day it did when I bought it!


I have about 15k miles on my 105 equipped bike (an '08) and it shifts better now than the day I brought it home. My Ultegra equipped bike shifts very well, but the 105 always shifted a tad better. 

There are a number of reasons beyond the groupset alone that dictate how well a bike will shift (set up/ tuning, etc.) but the moral of my 'story' is to take what the guy trying to sell you something says with a grain of salt. :wink5:


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## five5 (Jun 20, 2012)

Great, thanks again!

Yes, definitely not wanting to know which is BETTER between SRAM, and Shimano... I know that is subjective, and a conversatoin I don't want to spark (I've been in many on the MTB side )

Just wanted to know what you may prefer, and why. Sometimes hearing others preferences, might fit my style, or my priority of what I like in a product.

Thanks for the info though, I definitely appreciate it!


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

bb1857 said:


> The big difference in the two from what my LBS tell me is the feel and performance after you get many miles on the bikes. The Ultegra gruppo will feel much closer to new a year later than the 105 gruppo will.


Considering you have been firing pot shots at others (myself included) for being "keyboard cowboys" who are "seemingly experts" you should probably not just be quoting what you have heard from some dude at your LBS without doing some research first.

105 is every bit as durable as Ultegra, it uses slightly heavier parts that may or may not be one generation older. The return on your dollar diminishes VERY quickly as you move from 105-->Ultegra-->Dura Ace. I currently own a Rival equipped bike and a Red equipped bike. The difference in shift quality/feel has more to do with cable routing than which group is being used. 

The biggest difference between the different groups at this level is the profit the dealer makes when he sells them.


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## SkiRacer55 (Apr 29, 2005)

*Get a Roubaix...*

...for the reasons why, see this thread:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/specialized/first-2008-roubaix-283739.html


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

five5 said:


> Great, thanks again!
> 
> Yes, definitely not wanting to know which is BETTER between SRAM, and Shimano... I know that is subjective, and a conversatoin I don't want to spark (I've been in many on the MTB side )
> 
> ...


I prefer Shimano, partly because I've used it since purchasing my Bianchi Limited (w/ Ultegra 600) back in the mid-80's, partly because I think it (generally) has a higher level of refinement/ slick feel and partly because I prefer the method of shifting. 

That said, if someone gave me a SRAM equipped bike, I'd be ok with it. They both function fine; it really comes down to (fairly minor, IMO) preferences.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

its a preference between Double Tap vs shimano.... I have never ridden SRAM or campy, so I cannot comment


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## bb1857 (May 13, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> I have about 15k miles on my 105 equipped bike (an '08) and it shifts better now than the day I brought it home. My Ultegra equipped bike shifts very well, but the 105 always shifted a tad better.
> 
> There are a number of reasons beyond the groupset alone that dictate how well a bike will shift (set up/ tuning, etc.) but the moral of my 'story' is to take what the guy trying to sell you something says with a grain of salt. :wink5:


Totally agree!! He was actually trying to sell me the 105 bike but was giving me his opinion from his experiences. That's great that you have a less expensive gruppo that performs better!! :thumbsup:


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

PJ352 said:


> I prefer Shimano, partly because I've used it since purchasing my Bianchi Limited (w/ Ultegra 600) back in the mid-80's, partly because *I think it (generally) has a higher level of refinement/ slick feel* and partly because I prefer the method of shifting.
> 
> That said, if someone gave me a SRAM equipped bike, I'd be ok with it. They both function fine; it really comes down to (fairly minor, IMO) preferences.


There is no doubt about that. I actually prefer SRAM to Shimano, but SRAM is clunky and mechanical by comparison. I prefer the shifting method (not a fan of the brake lever pivoting in multiple directions) but Shimano has a level of refinement that even Campy can't match (and I currently own a SR11 group.)

That said, I still think Rival is the best group you can buy for the money, a Rival equipped CAAD10 would be an insanely good deal for a "budget" race bike.


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## bb1857 (May 13, 2012)

xjbaylor said:


> Considering you have been firing pot shots at others (myself included) for being "keyboard cowboys" who are "seemingly experts" you should probably not just be quoting what you have heard from some dude at your LBS without doing some research first.
> 
> 105 is every bit as durable as Ultegra, it uses slightly heavier parts that may or may not be one generation older. The return on your dollar diminishes VERY quickly as you move from 105-->Ultegra-->Dura Ace. I currently own a Rival equipped bike and a Red equipped bike. The difference in shift quality/feel has more to do with cable routing than which group is being used.
> 
> The biggest difference between the different groups at this level is the profit the dealer makes when he sells them.


Right! My fault!!


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## SprinterX (May 21, 2012)

bb1857 said:


> I have a Tarmac Expert SL3 with a standard 53/39 front chainring versus a 50/34 on the other two and I actually climbed better on the Tarmac to my surprise. If you can find a 2011 model you might get lucky and find an SL3 frame set with full Ultegra for a few hundred under your budget!


That's exactly the bike I have. I had just bought a 2009 Expert when this 2011 SL3 came along. Was such a great deal I had to buy it so I sold the 09. truely a great ride and meets all my wants and needs. 

five5 - If you can scoop an SL3 for the right price it might be worth the wait.


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## OneGear (Aug 19, 2005)

since you already have 20 bikes, I'm assuming you have a lot of tools. I'd stretch your dollars by finding a nice frame on ebay and building it up from there. You'll probably pocket some cash too by buying used. Buy nice components and you can sell your frame later on and upgrade without having to bother with new components. Unless you insist on buying new.....


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## five5 (Jun 20, 2012)

OneGear said:


> since you already have 20 bikes, I'm assuming you have a lot of tools. I'd stretch your dollars by finding a nice frame on ebay and building it up from there. You'll probably pocket some cash too by buying used. Buy nice components and you can sell your frame later on and upgrade without having to bother with new components. Unless you insist on buying new.....


Good point! I do have a lot of the tools to build one, but my knowledge isn't great in the road bike world. Most of my bikes are old 80's Freestyle bikes, so a little less complicated. I've built up a few MTB's, so I think I could do it, though.

With my MTB's, usually I find a nice complete on Ebay, or CL, and then upgrade little by little. Which I still might do. 

I really don't want to wait to find the parts, and build something up... I'd like to ride here this week even.

Since I'm getting back in, and not really sure what I'm doing, I thought going new would be good, I get warranty, and usually service for a couple years.

The guys at the local shop know me pretty well, and they help me with a few things here, and there.


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## OneGear (Aug 19, 2005)

five5 said:


> Good point! I do have a lot of the tools to build one, but my knowledge isn't great in the road bike world. Most of my bikes are old 80's Freestyle bikes, so a little less complicated. I've built up a few MTB's, so I think I could do it, though.
> 
> With my MTB's, usually I find a nice complete on Ebay, or CL, and then upgrade little by little. Which I still might do.
> 
> ...


Road bikes are pretty simple, you just have to be a little more gentle with the components, don't bend anything out of shape, etc. 

My advice to new riders is always the same, i know the weather is probably nice and you want to ride tomorrow, but if you drop money you might as well spend it on something that lasts a long time, instead of having to spend more money upgrading later.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

MTB is fine for slow upgrades.... which I do to mine

road bikes...make sure you get a 10-speed.... upgrading later can be costly, where the shift/bike levers costs a lot of money


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## five5 (Jun 20, 2012)

Well, finally picked one up! Went used, and got a great deal locally! 

Bike, pedals, shoes (perfect fit), helmet... $1000. Hope I did OK! Haven't ridden much yet, need to lower the seat a bit. . Barely any miles.

<a href="https://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g192/morr5/?action=view&current=12525fc4.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g192/morr5/12525fc4.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>


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