# training advice



## smbrum (Jul 9, 2008)

any training advice for a 35 year old rec rider who wants to do his new ride justice in 09. Here are the facts: Been riding 4 years and during the season I usually get 100-115 miles in per week. Terrain is flat to rolling hills. Rarely do we have a ride that is a lot of climbing. Normally for 30 miles its under 2k ft of climbing. I have decent power in a sprint or short out of the saddle burst up a climb but stamina is poor and always has been. Best 10 mile TT last year on flat route was 23.5mph. 

I know my base is pathetic and I am looking for some winter tips to aid in base building and preperation for a better TT this year. I havent done any formal racing just because I have been embarrassed by my performance in club rides. I can stay with the front pack on most days but It takes everything I have and I am in the red zone (190-200 heart rate) to keep pace. if the ride goes above 30 miles I have a hard time keeping up...just nothing left,

How many hours per week should I be riding and how many times? Do I need to ride to HR and if so what should that be, Nutritional tips to keep from getting dead legs is also welcome.


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## bill (Feb 5, 2004)

one thing I think a lot of rec riders underestimate is that . . . as the man said, it hurts. it never stops hurting. you just go faster. 
how many hours and how to spread out those hours is pretty personal. basically you need to train what you want to do, and you need to rest in between. I think it's safe to say that few racers ride fewer than about 7 hours/week, probably over 5 days.


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## M__E (Apr 21, 2006)

you mentioned stamina as the limiting factor in th 10 mile TT?
No it doesnt even come into it stamina is built up in base rides (winter but not necessarily) and involves LSD long slow distance ride of 2.5hrs+ all the way up to 6hrs+...but it stops where your longest race stops so if that a 3hr race then the max base you need is 4hrs (or even 3).

Hours per week is a red herring, yes its a factor, but what your LONGEST ride is a week is a much better indicator of base. 7 days of 1hr is nowhere near as good as a few 2-3hr rides.
Intensity is a much better indicator of fitness not hrs in the saddle, Quality not Quantity (unless your enroled for a few Grand Tour?)


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## bill (Feb 5, 2004)

with all respect, I think you are missing the OP's point.
"stamina" is his word for endurance. well, there is endurance at x level of effort, and endurance at x plus level of effort, etc., etc. If you can generate 1500 watts in a 5 second burst but really need to generate 1100 watts for 15 seconds or whatever, then your problem is endurance of a different sort than anything you could hope to develop doing 5 or 4 or 3 or even 1 or 2 hour rides at one pace. endurance is not one thing (although aerobic endurance has been linked, I believe, to the ability to recover after more intense efforts). He needs to extend the amount of time he can spend at his goal 10 min TT effort. which is, indeed, a form of endurance.
For building endurance at any level of effort, long slow distance I think is largely discredited. If you have to build up to six hour races, then by all means. But if your events are 2-3 hours, then you don't train up to them by doing long slow anything. Long steady, on the other hand, where you are training your aerobic system in a way that stresses it (much closer to threshold or to your goal level of intensity for that length of effort), then you're getting somewhere. 
I understand that you've said some of this -- maybe most of it -- in different ways. I'm just trying to clarify and expand.


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## M__E (Apr 21, 2006)

bill said:


> with all respect, I think you are missing the OP's point....
> ......I understand that you've said some of this -- maybe most of it -- in different ways. I'm just trying to clarify and expand.


Fair enough, but TBH theres no way to condense years of reading, hear say, proven methods ect and trial and error into a few posts for a noobie here, it would just have him coming back with more questions and well other experienced posters ('expanses' like your post) and Id be here all year trying to explain, and for that I want consultancy fees. There is 3 main ways to go about 'training properly' . They can be mutually exclusive or a mix and understanding of thye 3 approaches is best.

1 Get a coach who understands you needs and can make the most o=efficient use of your time - client input? almost zero...just feedback not much thinking needed.

2 Get a book on coaching methods or web sites (not RBR forums) real 'scientificy' articles from acclaimed coaches, Carmichael, Ferrari ect ect
and gradually build up your knowledge (you basically turn yourself into the coach over the course of your years cycling.

3 Listen to what club mates and what people on RBR say in forums, but I wouldnt recommend taking too much training advice here, most people are not 'well read' on the subject and offer conflicting advice, I can only speak for myself when I say I trust what I say, but no one is else can know that so..but if its one thing I am its Un biast, but you understand that discussing things here in the forums is limited, I say to all noobes be carefull who you listen to for yer advice, get enough understanding so that you can suss out people who are talking passed on crap, and those that actually do know what they are talkin about, thats how I started years ago, and thats how Ill carry on, Im in the stage of passing that info back to noobes now but if people start nit picking about stuff and just trolling I wont bother, as I not really into doing this :mad2: if they dont listen or just snipe about oh you said this that way or not, everything in contextual, you can really confuse noobes real quick by giving them too much info too soon., and more experienced riders stepping in and questioning the help doesnt help anyone...especially the noobie who asked the question..and it just confuses them more.

I mean quite frankly I dont really care if they listen to me or not, but Ill say this much, if I had of known years ago what I know now I would have done things ALOT differently, Im just giving them the benefits of my experience, and if you dont want it fine carry on training like you do or whatever.

TO THE OP: Just get a coach or be prepared for a long and conflicting arguement with whoever about why you train the way you do (not how but eveyone always get caught up on the 'why' and if you can make it cast iron solid for them to have no arguement then the 'why' will keep coming...just do it!


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## smbrum (Jul 9, 2008)

thanks for the responses...so, if most of my rides are under 40 miles (couple hours long) then my winter base training should also be at that time? If so, do I need to be training to heart rate right now and making sure that the intensity is in a specific zone or should I be riding hard for an hour or so 4 days/week?


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## M__E (Apr 21, 2006)

smbrum said:


> thanks for the responses...so, if most of my rides are under 40 miles (couple hours long) then my winter base training should also be at that time? If so, do I need to be training to heart rate right now and making sure that the intensity is in a specific zone or should I be riding hard for an hour or so 4 days/week?


well if your base is up to where you want it then yes. you want those base rides to be close to a tempo pace (can hold a conversation...gradually out of breath...light panting) 

then after winter you want to start introducing intensity into your workouts gradually depending on what you want to improve, sprinting, recovery, climbing, ME ect.

Take the winter as an opportunity to read up on the training you should be doing...a good start is the Lance Armstrong pERFORMANCE Programme, by his coach. and other sources I mentioned.


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## bill (Feb 5, 2004)

look at it this way -- say you have one candle to burn a week. the size of the candle is defined by your available time and your overall conditioning. some people have more time to burn the candle than they have conditioning, in which case they can improve by spending more time conditioning. others have time as their limiter. their candle isn't getting bigger.
and then this -- you can burn up your candle with lots of hours riding or with intensity. they sort of are exclusive, or, more accurately, inversely related. you'll never get to sprint intensity if all you do is go around for hours every day at a laughing pace, but you can't go three hours at a sprint pace, obviously.
so you have to budget. volume vs. intensity. 
the theory of periodization is that you don't really need to develop the high intensity efforts in the winter, so it's a good time to build up your laughing pace miles, so that when you do need to pour on the intensity, you can rely on what you did in February to carry over into July. this is base.
the problem with this is that your bank account of base doesn't really last that long. and you do lose your ability to hit the high notes that you have to fight back for. and some of the higher intensity stuff does indeed help your aerobic capacity.
I think most athletes aren't kicking back as much as they used to. the average weekend warrior may train differently in the winter, but the most successful don't abandon all intensity.


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## M__E (Apr 21, 2006)

touche - but again I keep saying this..the advice given is always given as personal advice to the person in question, if it was me what I do is
Oct comes Rec/Transition to gym introduced
Nov Gym with 70-80% rides, w/ gym 2-3 days wk (ME building)
Dec Gym+ rides 70-80% w/ power workouts inc (Pwrstarts ect/hill accel)
Jan Gym+rides 70-80%+ w/power workouts inc
Feb On Bike transfer phase - no gym - MTV's
Mar Climbing 70-80 cad @threshold pace
April more of similar..but longer intrvls/40k TT pace
May
June
July Peaking time - lasts long time -cause I dug a deep foundation

dont be a mad march hare...the season is long and painfull.


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

M__E said:


> touche - but again I keep saying this..the advice given is always given as personal advice to the person in question, if it was me what I do is
> Oct comes Rec/Transition to gym introduced
> Nov Gym with 70-80% rides, w/ gym 2-3 days wk (ME building)
> Dec Gym+ rides 70-80% w/ power workouts inc (Pwrstarts ect/hill accel)
> ...


And if it were me, I would tell you to skip the gym in favor of the bike. But, to each his own.


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## M__E (Apr 21, 2006)

iliveonnitro said:


> And if it were me, I would tell you to skip the gym in favor of the bike. But, to each his own.


yep, but you wouldnt say that if you saw the winters here


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