# Chinese carbon bike failure



## williemach

Here is my experience purchasing from a manufacturer called Miracle (Shenzhen Miracle Carbon Technology Co.,Ltd). 

I worked with a vendor through Aliexpress called Miracle, which has been mentioned in this forum before. I decided to give them a try after seeing a few positive posts. I had settled on purchasing the MC098, which features disc brakes and Di2 routing. 

After building up my bike, I spent some general road riding time with it. I commuted to my work, which is about 12 miles. I had tested it for about 15 minutes in the dirt, in it's short lifetime. On roughly my tenth ride, I was in a parking lot slowing down and dismounting off the bike when I heard a crack. My initial thought was that I ran over something. When I looked down, I saw a large crack, about 1 inch long.









I double-checked their website and felt confident they would help me since this clearly appeared to be a manufacturing defect. You should be able to get off a bike without breaking it.



















Anyhow, the company Miracle had this to say after I e-mailed them and showed them the pictures:

_Dear XXXXXXX,

Thanks for your information.
I have sent the pictures of the frame for our engineers.And they analyse it,and they told me ,the crack was caused by the strong impact from outside.And the picture leave the proof of impact.
And if it is quality problem,there are only one crack line,instead of Hundreds of crack line. 

Sorry about this news.Hope you can understand ._


I have not even ridden the bike for a solid month. It's a cyclocross bike and it should be built much stronger than what I just experienced. This is the warranty they have listed on the product page:

_Warranty Policy:
We warrant our frame to be free from manufacturing defects for a period of 2 year after the original date of purchase. And we offer 2 year quality guarantee for our frames. 

However, the warranty does not cover:
Normal wear or damage or failures caused by a crash, impact,
abuse of the product, non-compliance with manufactures specifications of usage or any other fractious reasons;
When the serial number or production code has been deliberately altered, defaced or removed._


This has been my experience so far. I told Miracle I would post my experience on Roadbikereview, so here it is. I do not recommend them.


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## pete2528ca

Know what I did with my Chinese frame from Hong-Fu? Got rid of it before I rode it. Take the loss, and buy a frame from a reputable dealer. Not a criticism, just a reality.


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## crossracer

First, sorry. That sucks. 

I like how there is no indication of any impact damage on the brake line, none at all. 

It sucks that this happened to you, i hate to say it but some lessons are costly. 

Hope your new bike is awesome. 

Bill


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## mikerp

williemach said:


> Here is my experience so far working a chinese manufacturer called Miracle. I worked with a vendor through Aliexpress called Miracle, which has been mentioned in this forum before. I decided to give them a try after seeing a few positive posts. I had settled on purchasing the MC098, which features disc brakes and Di2 routing.


Sorry to hear about your issues. I'm struggling to understand why you would go with this company, as my searches don't yield any positive results, only the typical spamming from low posters saying they successfully bought something and posts where the OP didn't get a response.
Looking up the company themselves shows a small inventory and no pricing.


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## alias33

you hung all those nice parts off that pos frame, I can't say I've ever heard good things about overseas frame dealers with unknown history, chances are they won't be around within the warranty period anyways. It not that hard to start a frame company in Taiwan and did you honestly think they would stand behind their product? 

They work in pure numbers and don't care about customer service with a canned email response like that. Take you money to the locals, it might buy you more than just a frame, something like piece of mind, customer service and reliability.

On a side note the area of breakage makes me worry even more about these china frames since in a conventional alloy or 'real' carbon bike the center of the tubes are the thinnest and least vulnerable to damage from regular riding.


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## lbkwak

Di2 on that frame? :mad2:


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## duriel

Worried about concealed cables, then uses yellow brake lines?
Maybe you got the groupo cheap, get another frame and your good to go!


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## OnTheRivet

Hmmm, I'd have to see more complete pictures (how about a picture of the drive side and underneath) before I judged. That is an area on a frame that sees virtually zero forces during normal riding. The only other carbon frame I've seen broken here had fallen over and impacted a pole. FWIW, I have 3 chinese direct carbon frames that have been ridden hard with zero issues.


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## williemach

Here's a picture of the bottom of the area that cracked. I will work on getting a drive side picture on tomorrow since the frame is now stripped down. Its virtually clean and the crack does not work it's way all the way to the bottom.









It is a costly lesson, but i'm personally glad I learned it without it being a more catastrophic lesson. I've moved back to my local bike shop and had my parts moved to a reputable name. I will not make the same mistake twice. I just want my experience to speak for itself and let a potential buyer decide.


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## mikerp

You had a bad experience, there are good Chinese Direct components available (as OnTheRivet mentioned), in this case it would seem you ran into a dud. As mentioned I personally wouldn't have gone that route. Hopefully this will steer folks away.


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## tlg

williemach said:


> I double-checked their website and felt confident they would help me since this clearly appeared to be a manufacturing defect. You should be able to get off a bike without breaking it.


I would never feel confident with receiving warranty from a Chinese company.



> I have sent the pictures of the frame for our engineers.And they analyse it,and they told me ,the crack was caused by the strong impact from outside.And the picture leave the proof of impact.
> And if it is quality problem,there are only one crack line,instead of Hundreds of crack line.
> 
> Sorry about this news.Hope you can understand


Nope, don't understand. There is zero evidence of a strong impact. Given the location of the crack on top of the frame, it came from an upward force on the top tube. During normal riding, the stress would be on the bottom of the tube. During braking, the stress would be on the top of the tube. Ironically, it broke while you were braking. 

IMO, the crack came from braking or a front wheel impact. Either would cause an upward crack like that. But no way of knowing if it was from something you did, or a poorly built/designed frame.


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## williemach

Here's some pictures of the drivetrain side and a macro shot.


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## mikerp

tlg said:


> Nope, don't understand. There is zero evidence of a strong impact. Given the location of the crack on top of the frame, it came from an upward force on the top tube. During normal riding, the stress would be on the bottom of the tube. During braking, the stress would be on the top of the tube. Ironically, it broke while you were braking.
> 
> IMO, the crack came from braking or a front wheel impact. Either would cause an upward crack like that. But no way of knowing if it was from something you did, or a poorly built/designed frame.


Good analysis, concur


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## PaxRomana

tlg said:


> I would never feel confident with receiving warranty from a Chinese company.
> 
> Nope, don't understand. There is zero evidence of a strong impact. Given the location of the crack on top of the frame, it came from an upward force on the top tube. During normal riding, the stress would be on the bottom of the tube. During braking, the stress would be on the top of the tube. Ironically, it broke while you were braking.
> 
> IMO, the crack came from braking or a front wheel impact. Either would cause an upward crack like that. But no way of knowing if it was from something you did, or a poorly built/designed frame.


Good analysis.

Must spread reputation around before giving it to tlg again.


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## SunnyinCO

Look for a reputable carbon repair person. Here in the Denver area there is a guy that repairs carbon bike frames and does excellent work. At least this way the frame could be used for something, like a dedicated bike for the trainer.


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## mrcreosote

Firstly, I don't condone them not honoring their warranty. 

That being said, manufacturing defects happen. It is not just the Chinese manufacturers.

Specialized announces voluntary recall of 12,000 forks - VeloNews.com

As a counterpoint I have a FM058 which I purchased nearly 2 years ago. I have had no sign of any problems. Admittedly it is a commuter bike, but it has taken the occasional hit in a pothole and survived.


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## atpjunkie

PaxRomana said:


> Good analysis.
> 
> Must spread reputation around before giving it to tlg again.


my thought as well. that is an upward buckle not a downward, impact crack.

don't buy chinese

don't buy carbon


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## atpjunkie

tlg said:


> I would never feel confident with receiving warranty from a Chinese company.
> 
> Nope, don't understand. There is zero evidence of a strong impact. Given the location of the crack on top of the frame, it came from an upward force on the top tube. During normal riding, the stress would be on the bottom of the tube. During braking, the stress would be on the top of the tube. Ironically, it broke while you were braking.
> 
> IMO, the crack came from braking or a front wheel impact. Either would cause an upward crack like that. But no way of knowing if it was from something you did, or a poorly built/designed frame.


drove it into a curb?


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## TT Max

That's why, you have to be careful ...who you buy from...should have bought a FM059...I've been riding the piss out of mine...two crashes...still going good


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## PeaBrain

You can always get the crack repaired. Geez! People spend anywhere from 3 to 10 times more on brand name frames, you know why? They are paying for a new frame up front should they ever need a warranty replacement. Why trash a Chinese made frame when you only paid maybe $600 for it? There are only a couple of factories producing carbon frames and they are in China and Taiwan. I've purchased several wheel sets and 2 frames from China and they all are great parts, they still work great. If one of these wheels or frames breaks, after the amount of use I've gotten from them, I'm not going to complain about it. I'll just go online and order up another one from China. Just to note, I bought a Scott Spark 30 MTB carbon frame (almost $2000.00) and the rear stay cracked after about 20 rides. And it couldn't be warrantied because Scott changed the stays design so I was S.O.L.


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## perpetuum_mobile

atpjunkie said:


> drove it into a curb?


That's what it looks like. You can brake a name-brand frame by driving it into a curb. A while ago there was a thread about pinarello that broke in 3 pieces while all the parts and even wheels were undamaged. The bike was real pinarello not a chinese knock off.

I don't know what happened but I am not convinced that frame was defective.


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## d2p

*maybe try....*

Amazon.com: FIBER FIX - Super Adhesive Tape: Tools & Home Improvement


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## RunninKurt

mrcreosote said:


> Firstly, I don't condone them not honoring their warranty.
> 
> That being said, manufacturing defects happen. It is not just the Chinese manufacturers.
> 
> Specialized announces voluntary recall of 12,000 forks - VeloNews.com
> 
> As a counterpoint I have a FM058 which I purchased nearly 2 years ago. I have had no sign of any problems. Admittedly it is a commuter bike, but it has taken the occasional hit in a pothole and survived.


You realize Specialized bikes are made in Taiwan? Not exactly a great example...


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## atpjunkie

PeaBrain said:


> You can always get the crack repaired. Geez! People spend anywhere from 3 to 10 times more on brand name frames, you know why? They are paying for a new frame up front should they ever need a warranty replacement. Why trash a Chinese made frame when you only paid maybe $600 for it? There are only a couple of factories producing carbon frames and they are in China and Taiwan. I've purchased several wheel sets and 2 frames from China and they all are great parts, they still work great. If one of these wheels or frames breaks, after the amount of use I've gotten from them, I'm not going to complain about it. I'll just go online and order up another one from China. Just to note, I bought a Scott Spark 30 MTB carbon frame (almost $2000.00) and the rear stay cracked after about 20 rides. And it couldn't be warrantied because Scott changed the stays design so I was S.O.L.


spend 2-6K on a brand frame, maybe get a warranty where you pay a grand or so for a 'crash replacement'. That buys you somewhere between 5 and 10 $600 Chinese no names


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## mrcreosote

RunninKurt said:


> You realize Specialized bikes are made in Taiwan? Not exactly a great example...


One assumes Specialized have stricter QA requirements, and have contracts to enforce them. And IIRC Taiwanese manufacturers are not regarded the same as mainland Chinese manufacturers, having a greater reputation for quality.


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## multirider

I bought a Specialized Epic mtb. It started squeaking. My LBS diagnosed as a squeak in the BB. Specialized had them pop the bearings out, apply some Loctite product, and cure for 48 hours. Within a week, it was squeaking again. Specialized replaced my Epic Expert frame with a Spec Epic S-Works frame. No arguing, no problems. Not due to a crack or failure, just squeaking. Replaced it with a SIGNIFICANTLY upgraded frame to compensate me for the time it took to get it to me. During which I still had a bike to ride, it was just a Squeak Attack experience on each ride.

I had a Yeti 575 that the chainstay snapped. They Fed-Xed overnight a new rear triangle to Moab and paid Poison Spider to swap my parts over to it so my week vacation wouldn't be ruined. The front triangle developed some hairline cracks and they warrantied that as well. No arguments.

Good companies stand behind their products.


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## mtnbikefj

Not just bad experiences with Chinese companies. My Salsa Dos Niner broke (in the same spot where they all do) and Salsa was no help... in fact their crash replacement price was more than the LBS said they could sell me the frame. Up till then I was a Salsa lover (MTB, CX and road) - I sold the road bike, look everyday at the broke MTB and still ride the CX till I can find a replacement frame.... and that is a USA company.


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## PlatyPius

mtnbikefj said:


> Not just bad experiences with Chinese companies. My Salsa Dos Niner broke (in the same spot where they all do) and Salsa was no help... in fact their crash replacement price was more than the LBS said they could sell me the frame. Up till then I was a Salsa lover (MTB, CX and road) - I sold the road bike, look everyday at the broke MTB and still ride the CX till I can find a replacement frame.... and that is a USA company.


But it's not a "real" US company... it's a wholly-owned property of QBP. It's just a distributor brand these days....made in China/Taiwan like everything else.


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## mudrock

PlatyPius said:


> But it's not a "real" US company... it's a wholly-owned property of QBP. It's just a distributor brand these days....made in China/Taiwan like everything else.


All the more reason that Salsa, Surly etc. would want to protect their reputation. QBP is an ambitious company looking to increase market share.

My advice to OP:

1) Get frame repaired. Got to be cheaper than replacement. Consumers that buy direct from overseas have no leverage when things go wrong. 
2) If you want to save money, try someone like On One/Planet X/Titus. English company now in the states (they use the Titus warehouse in Portland OR). Their bikes and made in Taiwan/China. They have two models of CX carbon - the On One Dirty Disco and the Planet X Pro carbon. They both go for $800 f&f. They give it a modest markup compared to buying direct but you have more peace of mind because they want to grow their business state-side and aren't likely to screw you.

I've had a Dirty Disco for 2 years and it's been great.


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## durianrider

Defs look like a crash crack to me. No way you just riding along and that happens.

Even landing on the top tube can do that or a hard front wheel impact. Get it fixed for cheap and keep on riding it. Take out your fork and check inside the steerer with a torch.

Safe riding.


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## No Time Toulouse

durianrider said:


> Defs look like a crash crack to me. No way you just riding along and that happens.
> 
> Even landing on the top tube can do that or a hard front wheel impact. Get it fixed for cheap and keep on riding it. Take out your fork and check inside the steerer with a torch.
> 
> Safe riding.


Hey, congratulations for digging up a thread that nobody has posted on for SIX years! You win the prize for "thread dredge" of the day.


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