# Hincapie admits to doping



## amicus (Mar 2, 2007)

As reported in the Velonews

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...doping-giving-information-on-armstrong_256599


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## talentous (Oct 17, 2005)

wow!....


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

Hincapie and "Big George" are the same guy. Fyi...


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

Chit just got real.


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## FR hokeypokey (Apr 12, 2010)

Certainly not surprising. But my question is why was he not suspended?

Article states he was talking to the USADA three yeas ago. Why was he allowed to continue to race since then? Why was he in the TdF this year? Where is the discussion of stripping him of his wins during that time?

He states he has been riding clean for the past six years. Prove it. If he was a key player in the most sophisticated drug scandal in cycling, why are we to believe he did not continue using to extend his career. He did seem to perform at a high level for such an older rider. Shouldn't that create suspicion?


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## viciouscycle (Aug 22, 2009)

Now when will all his wins be stripped from the record? Or is it that if you confess all is forgiven?


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

viciouscycle said:


> Now when will all his wins be stripped from the record? Or is it that if you confess all is forgiven?


so none of his results have been stripped already?


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

den bakker said:


> so none of his results have been stripped already?


Six Former Armstrong USPS Teammates Receive Bans From USADA | Cyclingnews.com

_Hincapie accepted a suspension from September 1 and *disqualification from results from May 31, 2004 to July 31, 2006.*_


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## BlackIce619 (Sep 14, 2012)

Wow. So who has been a champ and been clean? I think the more USADA digs, the more they will find. 

Lance did just recently win the SUPERFROG Triatholon here in San Diego the other day. 

September 30, 2012 / 7:00 AM
1.2 mile swim/ 56 mile bike/ 13.1 mile run

Although winning 1st place by about 5-6 minutes, he is still a animal!!!


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## TerminatorX91 (Mar 27, 2011)

What's surprising to me that some people seem so surprised.


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## JChasse (Sep 16, 2005)

TerminatorX91 said:


> What's surprising to me that some people seem so surprised.


Exactly.


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## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

BlackIce619 said:


> Wow. So who has been a champ and been clean? I think the more USADA digs, the more they will find.
> 
> Lance did just recently win the SUPERFROG Triatholon here in San Diego the other day.
> 
> ...


Still doping. 

One of the USADA's documents has an email conversation between Ferrari's go-between (his son) and Armstrong discussing what it would take to win Kona. He was planning with Ferrari for triathlon as soon as he washed out of the 2010 Tour de France.


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## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

George is one of my favorite riders... now he's retired. 

http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/Hincapie,+George+Affidavit.pdf - Original

After reading this... there is no Hincapie Gran Fondo in SC for me.


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## AtomicMoose (Aug 15, 2012)

Reading about George is probably one of the most disappointing things about this whole LA deal.

I'm not so naive as to think it could never have happened, but its still sad/disappointing to hear.


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## Downshifter (May 30, 2011)

I read George's full statement issued Wednesday. As much as I detest the doping that took place, I still respect George as a rider and a man. He did not make the right choice, but he is handling it well at this point. He appears deeply and sincerely apologetic, including to his fans.


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

_ He appears deeply and sincerely apologetic, including to his fans._

You mean his future Hincapie Sport's customers, right? There is still an almighty dollar to be made!


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## FR hokeypokey (Apr 12, 2010)

Downshifter said:


> I read George's full statement issued Wednesday. As much as I detest the doping that took place, I still respect George as a rider and a man. He did not make the right choice, but he is handling it well at this point. He appears deeply and sincerely apologetic, including to his fans.


So if Armstrong issued a sincerely apologetic statement today, could you still respect the rider for making a bad choice?


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## Downshifter (May 30, 2011)

FR hokeypokey said:


> So if Armstrong issued a sincerely apologetic statement today, could you still respect the rider for making a bad choice?


You mean, if Lance was not Lance?

Sometimes people make mistakes--even good people. I see a huge difference between Lance and George--Lance's master-minding doping by all around him, his culture of denial, etc.; and the way George is handling things now. You may choose to lump the two of them together, but I do not.


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## goloso (Feb 4, 2004)

FR hokeypokey said:


> So if Armstrong issued a sincerely apologetic statement today, could you still respect the rider for making a bad choice?


For the doping? No. To me that is the least of his crimes. If he personally and publicly apologized to the dozens of people he intimidated and tried to destroy, showed some real remorse and attempted to make things right with them and the sport I would forgive him immediately.

So far he has shown no signs of being capable of this.


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## viciouscycle (Aug 22, 2009)

These are all grown men capable of making their own decisions. They could have all "confessed" at any time and sunk Lance but they choose not to. Instead they kept quiet, rode the gravy train and cashed the checks and prayed this day never would happen. If LA is stripped of his titles, every single rider that took drugs should get the same treatment. No one held them down and forced an IV in their arms.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

trailrunner68 said:


> Still doping.
> 
> One of the USADA's documents has an email conversation between Ferrari's go-between (his son) and Armstrong discussing what it would take to win Kona. He was planning with Ferrari for triathlon as soon as he washed out of the 2010 Tour de France.


I haven't followed it much, but my general impression is he's really improved a lot since he did his first couple of tri's. Like remarkably. I think I remember he even ran a faster half ironman run just a few weeks or months after running an open half, and in far tougher conditions.

I'm sure it was just his superior work ethic and genetics kicking in.

I really think he was on target if not to win at least finish on the podium at Kona. With the testing in tri it was basically like going back to pre-2005 (or worse, I'm not even sure they have the 50% hematocrit rule) cycling world. He was going to come into it doped to the gills. Probably nice big injection of cortisone on race morning, blood as think as sludge until diluted with some saline...


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

viciouscycle said:


> These are all grown men capable of making their own decisions. They could have all "confessed" at any time and sunk Lance but they choose not to. Instead they kept quiet, rode the gravy train and cashed the checks and prayed this day never would happen. If LA is stripped of his titles, every single rider that took drugs should get the same treatment. No one held them down and forced an IV in their arms.


Nope. Levi stated that "...he is sorry he was forced to dope..."


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

It makes me laugh to read how surprised and disappointed some people are to discover Hincapie and Leipheimer were dopers. Look at it this way. Hincapie, Leipheimer, Danielson, Hamilton et al had one function as far as USPS riders in the Tour was concerned, to help get Lance into yellow and keep him there until Paris. As meticulous as Lance was in everything he did, and coupled with the knowledge that he doped, common sense would suggest that he wouldn't risk having a lieutenant and domestiques that couldn't be relied upon to protect him from attacks in the mountains by riders from other teams (who he had to assume were doping also). Simply put, Lance needed the assurance that his helpers were doped enough to fulfill their function. Zabriskie's comments about the dressing down from Lance for not sticking closely enough to Ferrari's doping schedule make total sense in this context. Why wouldn't Hincapie be off the sauce by 2006? No more Lance watching him like a hawk making sure he was on the program.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Paragraph 98 of George Hincapie's statement above:" I continue to regard Lance Armstrong as a great cyclist, and I continue to be proud to be his friend and to have raced with him for many years".

Nice sentiment by George but I wonder if Lance still considers George a friend. Lance is fast becoming a pariah, his friends are rolling over on him.

On the other hand his life isn't too miserable.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

sir duke said:


> Hincapie, Leipheimer, Danielson, Hamilton et al had one function as far as USPS riders in the Tour was concerned, to help get Lance into yellow and keep him there until Paris.


Considering Lance's ruthless persona, he likely respected those people as much as a pair of climbing wheels...tools to be used and discarded when no longer of any use.

Use 'em, abuse 'em, and lose 'em.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*he did the 56 mile bike ride*



BlackIce619 said:


> Wow. So who has been a champ and been clean? I think the more USADA digs, the more they will find.
> 
> Lance did just recently win the SUPERFROG Triatholon here in San Diego the other day.
> 
> ...


in just over 2 hrs as a 40 plus year old


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

sir duke said:


> It makes me laugh to read how surprised and disappointed some people are to discover Hincapie and Leipheimer were dopers.
> ...
> Why wouldn't Hincapie be off the sauce by 2006? No more Lance watching him like a hawk making sure he was on the program.


I'm with you that this week's revelations don't surprise me a bit.

Why would George stay on the sauce? Because he wanted to ride for himself in the 2006 Tour. Because he was riding for Contador in 2007.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

Pro Cyclist doped, tens shocked
am I surprised? nope. Was I a Hincapie fan? YUP Am I still YUP? His battles with a doped up Museeuw and company at Paris Roubaix were epic. They were / are all doped. Regardless the limit to their H Crit was 50 (unless an exemption) so whether they used EPO, CERA, Altitude, or blood doping they were all racing within the same limitations by a percent or 2. 
Armstrong had epic battles, with a doped up Ullrich, Basso, Kloden, Vino, hell everyone who stood on the podium has a doping scandal in their book, it was still great racing


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

jorgy said:


> I'm with you that this week's revelations don't surprise me a bit.
> 
> Why would George stay on the sauce? Because he wanted to ride for himself in the 2006 Tour. Because he was riding for Contador in 2007.


I don't believe George was off the sauce in 2006. Rather I'm giving his admission the benefit of the doubt. I agree with you, he still had selfish reasons to dope and he wouldn't be much use to Contador 'pan agua'. I found his admission totally self serving and disingenuous. The guy is a creep and no use to the sport.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Considering Lance's ruthless persona, he likely respected those people as much as a pair of climbing wheels...tools to be used and discarded when no longer of any use.
> 
> Use 'em, abuse 'em, and lose 'em.


That about sums it up. Use PEDs, use your team mates, use UCI, use the media, use your cancer charity as a means of deflecting flack and polishing your image, abuse all and anybody in your way.


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## aptivaboy (Nov 21, 2009)

_Considering Lance's ruthless persona, he likely respected those people as much as a pair of climbing wheels...tools to be used and discarded when no longer of any use_

Great point. And, that has probably made the lot of them more likely to talk to investigators. On the other hand, look at Eddy Merckx. We all know that he doped at times, even excluding the tainted Giro doping result. However, have his former teammates ratted him out for other transgressions, real or imagined? Nope. Why not? Maybe because he hired many of them to work in his bike factory after they retired. He took care of them, and didn't drop them at the side of the road. Eddy didn't regard them as disposable cogs in the machine. Its perhaps something that Lance could look back on and ponder.


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## FR hokeypokey (Apr 12, 2010)

Interesting point about Merckx. Not sure it is entirely correct though. 

I would venture a guess that in part there is a generational difference in the keeping of the "secrets" of doping. Older generation looked at loyalty, whether misplaced or not, as an important thing. The "taking a secret to the grave" mentality is at work here. They accepted their own doping and deceit equally as bad as Merckx or any other peer. 

Today's riders are raised in a different culture. They can tell the secrets and become cult heroes. Write their books and profit from their own deceit. Point fingers, cry for forgiveness and the culture today will direct their scorn towards other areas. They consider themselves the "victims" of the doping culture and the media and fans will give them a slap on the wrist and embrace them. 

I suspect the older generation of riders is looking at these riders with disdain. 

Another way to consider it. There used to be a mentality of "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" and it was honored. Today you will find all kinds of foolishness on Youtube or Facebook. 

Different generation, different expectations.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

"Why would George stay on the sauce?"

He was a big fan of the money.
.
.
I'm sure he quit in 2006 because he knew that the statute of limitations would run out in 2012, when he confesses.
.
.
.


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## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> "Why would George stay on the sauce?"
> 
> He was a big fan of the money.
> .
> ...


He messed up then. The SOL is eight years, not six. That is why he lost all results from 2004 - 2006.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

viciouscycle said:


> These are all grown men capable of making their own decisions. They could have all "confessed" at any time and sunk Lance but they choose not to. Instead they kept quiet, rode the gravy train and cashed the checks and prayed this day never would happen. If LA is stripped of his titles, every single rider that took drugs should get the same treatment. No one held them down and forced an IV in their arms.


While I agree with you for the most part, If they stripped the titles of every racer who doped, the sport would be all but forgotten. Think of all the riders who dope but aren't at the top of the food chain and the ones that are that haven't been caught. Doping has become an integral part of pro cycling. Not a good thing but it's there. This applies to darn near every pro sport. It's just that there is more aggressive action to stop it in cycling.


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## aptivaboy (Nov 21, 2009)

Merckx did hire quite a lot of them. he gave an interview once where he said he needed or wanted to find jobs for, "the boys," meaning his former teammates at his shop. Obviously, he couldn't hire all of them, but more than a few did eventually work for Merckx post-cycling in one way or another. That showed loyalty both up and down the chain of command. Also, doping was more of a leveler back then simply designed to help riders cope with the vast distances and stress that the sport put their bodies under. It wasn't the scientifically designed program that can turn decent riders into superheroes that we see today. I suspect that the older riders keep their mouths shut because they didn't think it was all that much of a problem, unlike today. 

I do like your point about there being generational differences. A lot of the older pro baseball and football players tell about how they have trouble relating to the antics of modern players, who are often viewed as spoiled and not out for the team's success, but more for their own. There could be something there regarding Lance, as well.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Eddy's former team mates*



aptivaboy said:


> _Considering Lance's ruthless persona, he likely respected those people as much as a pair of climbing wheels...tools to be used and discarded when no longer of any use_
> 
> Great point. And, that has probably made the lot of them more likely to talk to investigators. On the other hand, look at Eddy Merckx. We all know that he doped at times, even excluding the tainted Giro doping result. However, have his former teammates ratted him out for other transgressions, real or imagined? Nope. Why not? Maybe because he hired many of them to work in his bike factory after they retired. He took care of them, and didn't drop them at the side of the road. Eddy didn't regard them as disposable cogs in the machine. Its perhaps something that Lance could look back on and ponder.


weren't put in front of a grand jury where lying can get you a prison term

eddy's former team mates weren't offered reduced punishments for their testimony

just a couple small details


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## aptivaboy (Nov 21, 2009)

Yeah, but you're missing one big detail: money. 

Most of those guys had no real futures after cycling. How much would a tell all book have been worth to them? Might they have made some more money? Yes. Did they do it? No. 

Also, many of those who are now spilling the beans have done so voluntarily, like the Andreus and Lance's former soigneur, no grand jury necessary. Lance's treatment of anyone who crosses him is legendary. That wrath is also what is likely getting to talk - why protect a total jerk?


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## dwt (Apr 2, 2002)

Then there's Chris Horner:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/10/news/horner-says-he-never-saw-doping-on-bruyneel-teams_261673

All respect for him down the toilet. How stupid does he think people are?

2011 Tour de California: 4th, CVV, doper; 3rd, Tommy D., doper; 2nd, Levi, old man and doper; 1st, Horner very old man: "dope, what dope? Never heard of it". Really? Comedy gold.


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## natedg200202 (Sep 2, 2008)

I look at George's admission as the most damning argument against Lance's 'I've never tested positive' speil. 

I wonder how many times George was tested?


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