# Fit help



## atrocious (Nov 10, 2009)

Hi all -

I currently ride an '03 Specialized Allez Elite in a 56cm (click on geometry):
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?arc=2003&spid=20914&menuItemId=3

I have a somewhat short torso/longer legs, height is 5'10", cycling inseam is 33". I believe my LBS swapped out my stock stem for a more upright one, it says 16/8 degrees on it and appears to be flipped into an angled upward position (visually the handlebars are probably not more than 1/2" lower than my saddle).

How do I compare my current geometry to the Motobecanes - I'm specifically trying to decide between the Immortal & Century, possibly the Lechamp TI. I don't want my bars any lower than 1" below the saddle.

In the case of the Immortal, the listed 56cm size is the same as the seat tube, in the Specialized, 56cm bike size = 52cm actual length. Top tube length is similar. Am I going to be severely hunched over in an Immortal 56cm vs. my present setup because of the much longer seat tube? And does the stock stem from BD offer any rise and is it flippable?

And in the case of the Century, the 55cm listed size has a top tube of 550mm vs. my Specialized 563mm. If you go by top tube length, am I going to be more comfortable with a 55 or 58?

Thanks for any help.


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## 20sMotoSpirit (May 27, 2007)

Some questions first:

Is the stem you have a 160mm and an 8deg rise? I am sure that the stem is really an 8-16deg which is 80mm and 16deg offset. If it is 160mm long - if this is the case then you need to forget any transfer of geometry from your specialized. Stems that are a funny bit on a bike. there is a very narrow window (80-110mm) for stem length to get proper handling.

If you have a 16deg rise and if feels comfortable you need to consider a taller head tube (like the LeChamp Ti). From the way you have described your setup, it sounds like you enjoy a relaxed feel to race feel. I would go with a Century Pro if you are looking for a new bike.

Lrt me also say that if there is nothing wrong with your current frame you can always get a bike here and swap parts keeping the specialized frame but updating the equipment. I too run a Specialized frame from that era. 

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=144219&highlight=lsl+to+s-works

I purchased the LSL and moved the parts after getting the frame. Could not be happier!
If you still like your triple get the Windsor Knight and sell the frame on ebay/CL if you really don't use your triple and would like to move to a double you can get the Falkirk which has the Ultegra SL parts ( STI, rear mech, front mech)

This might be the best option if you still like your bike, but want to upgrade failing parts. 6 years is a long time for STI shifters.


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## atrocious (Nov 10, 2009)

20sMotoSpirit said:


> Some questions first:
> 
> Is the stem you have a 160mm and an 8deg rise? I am sure that the stem is really an 8-16deg which is 80mm and 16deg offset. If it is 160mm long - if this is the case then you need to forget any transfer of geometry from your specialized. Stems that are a funny bit on a bike. there is a very narrow window (80-110mm) for stem length to get proper handling.
> 
> ...


Thanks for replying, as for the stem, Specialized has some sort of adjustable mechanism (no clue how it works), apparently the numbers on there mean it's a 12 degree rise, adjustable from 8-16. See here for specs, I don't have the same exact stem:

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=41846&menuItemId=9305&eid=5135

The length appears to be either 100 or 110 from my crude measurement, it's 100mm from the bolt in the middle of the head tube cap to the gap where my handlebars are, and 110mm if you go past the gap to the end of the stem contraption holding my bars. Not sure which is the official length. Stock on my 56cm was 120mm, so I'm guessing LBS swapped out for a shorter stem (does that make sense given my shorter torso?)

Not sure what qualifies as a race vs. relaxed position given the above measurements, but I'm comfortable with it. I ride a lot (aggressively, but rarely competitive racing), often 200 miles a week, usually 90% of time with my hands on the hoods, although on 50-100 mile rides I'll use the drops occasionally to alternate my back position. I'd consider a more race-y position if it made my stroke more efficient, but if all it does is improve my aerodynamic profile I don't care about that. When I bought the bike, the LBS basically told me I'd be more comfortable and would never notice any speed degradation.

What exactly am I giving up by going with the "relaxed" Century vs the Immortal? I'm assuming the quality of the carbon frame itself is similar on the two.

And thanks for the suggestion about swapping parts, I may wind up doing that anyway, but I definitely need a second bike so I've got something to ride when one is in the shop.


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## 20sMotoSpirit (May 27, 2007)

Yes, The 100mm, 12 DEG stem would better fit some one your size. I ride a 55cm with 100mm but i have nearly 4 inch saddle/ bar drop. The bike is set up for racing and I really don't feel that difference.

The race vs. endurance position simply means that your body is not as hunched over the bike and could stay in the saddle for many more hours. That is not the only reason, but I models that have taller and steeper head tubes have longer wheel bases and are more confortable on longer rides. Specialized calls the 'Endurance road' and Trek 'Performance head tube'. From my experience, when you are in the drops or hunched over your power increases. but really its designed to give you a more compliant ride. read the endurance road section at the specialized site - One of the advantages of the specialized system is that if you want to ride an endurance bike - get your size in endurance (Roubaix) then you want a racey feel - get a tarmac. But between the models, you don't need to change the stem length or seat height - simply set up the bike one way and transfer the settings to the next bike. 

There is really no difference between the bikes you like other than the components. Really getting a ballpark size that has some play in the fit process is the best bet.
to be honest, to expect the same quality of fit out of the box is miss leading. You will have to play around with the fit between stem angles/ lengths, seat positions and STI hood position - the feel for a 9spd hood is not the same as a 10spd hood. 

Two bikes? - Since one bike is never enough! I recommend doing the swap parts for $800 and then spend 400-450 on either one of two bikes. FantomUNO or the Dawes Lightning Cross. Why? CX bikes are excellent for all weather - can be adapted to road bike status ( 700x23 tires) or turn into commuter bikes with big tires (700x32) This also eliminates th need to buy different size tubes if you stick with a common range (20-25c tubes) which I have seen fill 32c tires. What do I have? I have a nice road bike ( S-works/LSL parts) and then I have a FantomUNO - the steel frame is so nice - will outlast me! The single speed is great for school commuting. the wider tire clearance makes for very soft rides with my 30lbs of school gear. AND! the CX canti brakes allow me to use the bike as a CX bike on the weekends. Having the CX ability is nice because it scratches my dirt itch. 
Any CX bike will work, I just like the single speed for simplicity.

in the end you get all the bikes for under 1200 - you could even build an all weather CX bike with your older 9 spd parts on the Dawes bike! - that would be SWEET! 

Pic for ideas...
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=2437357#poststop

Enjoy


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## robpar (Jan 26, 2008)

atrocious said:


> Hi all -
> 
> I currently ride an '03 Specialized Allez Elite in a 56cm (click on geometry):
> http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?arc=2003&spid=20914&menuItemId=3
> ...


measure the head tube on your current bike.... send bikesdirect an email and ask what the head tubes are for each of the bikes you want. I don't think you want anything with a head tube shorter than 15-20mm from your current bike, otherwise the bars will be much lower and it gets hard to get stems that are 30 degrees or steeper. To get the higher head tube you have to get a larger frame, as long as you don't get too long of a top tube


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

atrocious said:


> Hi all -
> 
> I currently ride an '03 Specialized Allez Elite in a 56cm (click on geometry):
> http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?arc=2003&spid=20914&menuItemId=3
> ...


The stem on the Allez is 4 position adjustable. If it's flipped up and the indicators say 16/8, yours is in the 16 degree position. From your measurements, I'd say it's a 100 mm stem.

Considering you're longer legged/ shorter torso, there is some advantage going with a traditional geo (horizontal TT) as opposed to compact (sloping). The reason being you can concentrate on the effective TT without worrying about maxing out the seat post, due to a shorter seat tube length on the compact. I suspect that's how you ended up on the 56 Allez, because (given that you're running a 100 mm stem) the 54 may have fit your upper torso better.

Of the three models you mentioned, I think your size in the Immortal would be a 56, but in the Century it might be closer to the 55, and in the LeChamp, the 53 would be the better fit. I would have to look into it further, but the LeChamp (at least thus far) seems to be your best bet, geo wise. I agree with Robpar to check with BD on the HT lengths of the Immortal and Century (the LeChamp lists them) because that obviously has a bearing on saddle to bar drop. You can compensate with different angled stems, but only to a point, so more info is needed.


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