# How should I turn my Puch Cavette II into a fixed gear?



## Jon Dalman (Sep 13, 2010)

Hello all, 
I recently received a 1980's Puch Cavette II from a friend for free, the frame is in really good condition but the rest of it isn't doing so well. I am aware that the Cavette wasn't one of Puch's normal high end bikes but the bike frame is my size and I love the design of it, so I've decided to turn it into a flip flop bike. I have been looking for weeks trying to figure out the best way to make the conversion. I'm trying to keep it under $200. 
First things first I need a wheelset. I would really like a 27 inch set or at least back wheel to match the front wheel. I think this will keep the bike as tall as it is which is good for me being 6'1. And it will look better because of the bigger frame, and the classic look that the bike already has. The problem is these wheels are very hard to find anywhere especially at a lower cost. I don't mind getting used equipment and or mid grade but I don't really want an old steel vintage wheel converted into a flip flop. I'd also like to find a deep v but can't find a 27' deep v anywhere. 
So what I'm asking of all of you more experienced riders is 1; Where could I find a strong light 27 inch flip flop wheel, or wheel set. and 2; Should I even bother going through the hassle of keeping the size the same. 700's are much easier to get ahold of, cheaper and offer much more variety.
Secondly (if I do decide to settle for the 700's) I think the cheapest way to do a full conversion (wheelset, crank, bracket, seatpost/saddle, stem bars, new brakes) would be to buy a used fixed gear locally and take all of the parts off and put them on my Puch frame. I would like do to this in the next couple days but I don't know 1 if i'm going to settle for 700's, and 2 if the parts of the used bike will fit my Cavette. 
So how do know what size of parts look for? 

http://nashville.craigslist.org/bik/1939451703.html
^^^^^^
Here is a bike that I thought would have nice parts for sale close by. do you think they would all fit my bike? its a dawes sst
I hope you can help me answer these question and I appreciate your time.

Jon.


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## SilverStar (Jan 21, 2008)

Most of the parts from the SST should fit that Puch frame...especially if the bottom bracket threading is the same (it almost certainly is BSC or "English" threaded).

As for wheels, find a cheap pair of 700c wheels -- 27" is SO limiting in terms of wheel and tire choices! The size really isn't that much different, either...if you were running brakes, you'd only have to lower the brake shoes 4mm to mate up with new 700c rims.


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## Jon Dalman (Sep 13, 2010)

Thank you. So do you think taking the components from the SST would be the best choice? rather then buying them separately?


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

I think you have some conflicting goals, but maybe you can work it out. You want to do it cheap, and fast, but you seem to care about style (matching wheels, deep v). Hard to reconcile all that.

I'm not advising you to do this necessarily, but I know how I'd convert that bike. I'd buy a fixed cog. Total cost of conversion: about 25 bucks. Thread off the freewheel, clean hub and cog threads very well, thread cog on very tight with plenty of blue loctite. Remove one chainring (which one depends on how you want your gearing, which you have to figure out before buying a cog, of course). Re-space rear axle to put the cog in the right place for a good chainline, then re-dish the wheel to center the rim. Dump derailleurs, shifters, cables, etc., but keep the brakes. Shorten chain, of course. Remember that your "suicide hub" could theoretically unthread (though I've never had it happen in thousands of miles), so you don't do skid-stops and other stunts -- i.e., heavy-duty braking is done with the brakes.

Next cheapest way, if you want a "real" fixed hub (track or flip-flop) is to buy a hub and re-build the rear wheel, but hub and spokes might cost more than a wheel, and would require either your own labor (time) or labor cost.

Or buy a rear wheel only, but you have to not care about having the wheels match (no style points). If I were really going cheap-but-functional, I wouldn't even care if I put a 700c wheel on the back with a 27" on the front. The difference in radius is only 4mm, so it would be unnoticeable anyway, and you could level it out by using a bigger tire in back (not a bad idea anyway).

Your aesthetic sensibilities may vary ;-)

Anyway, that's a great bike for a conversion. Have fun, whichever way you go.


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## Jon Dalman (Sep 13, 2010)

Thank you. I know it would be hard to pull of for so cheap thats why I think buying this $200 bike, and settling for 700's. will give me good looking matching parts to put on my bike. Plus the back wheel on this bike is untrue, the tires are awful, the bottom bracket is going out, the breaks stink, and the grips are awful. But if the rest of the bike was in great condition, I would go with your plan and just buy a back 27 or 700 but I'm going to need to really go through everything to make this bike desirable. I'll post pictures when its done. Thanks again.
I think i'm picking up the SST today, unless someone here knows of a better way to replace all the parts on my Puch, or knows of a major conflict when transferring Dawes parts.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

suicide hub, done.


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## Jon Dalman (Sep 13, 2010)

no thank you.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

Jon Dalman said:


> no thank you.




then you'd better up your budget... or just sell/shelve it and buy a complete, new or used


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## Jon Dalman (Sep 13, 2010)

I'm buying an sst fixed gear. for $200, and putting all the parts from that on my puch. does that not solve my problem?


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

Jon Dalman said:


> I'm buying an sst fixed gear. for $200, and putting all the parts from that on my puch. does that not solve my problem?




maybe, maybe not... do all the relevant spacings/diameters, threadings, etc match? the fork, hs, stem won't transfer over and if the old bars are 25.4 the new bars won't either. same goes for bb/cranks, and even sp and brake reach. methinks you'll end up munging up some parts trying to make it all work, and then putting 'em all back on the sst and riding that


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## Jon Dalman (Sep 13, 2010)

Well thats why I posted this to find out if they would fit. one dude says they would fit, and you say none of them will. so i guess i'll just try it out. it wouldnt be the worst thing in the world to "end up riding the sst" or selling it.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

Jon Dalman said:


> Well thats why I posted this to find out if they would fit. one dude says they would fit, and you say none of them will. so i guess i'll just try it out. it wouldnt be the worst thing in the world to "end up riding the sst" or selling it.




first, I don't see where anyone said they would fit ("should fit... if...") and I certainly didn't say none will fit ("maybe, maybe not"). but nobody knows what's on that old bike. take some measurements, and post up some numbers or just compare w/ the sst spec sheet. no, assuming the parts will all fit wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, but it could end up being a big waste of time and $


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Jon Dalman said:


> Thank you. I know it would be hard to pull of for so cheap thats why I think buying this $200 bike, and settling for 700's. will give me good looking matching parts to put on my bike.
> 
> Plus the back wheel on this bike is untrue, the tires are awful, the bottom bracket is going out, the breaks stink, and the grips are awful. But if the rest of the bike was in great condition, I would go with your plan and just buy a back 27 or 700 but I'm going to need to really go through everything to make this bike desirable.


Just a quick response on some of the specific things you say are wrong with the bike:

- If you don't want to go the "suicide hub" route, you need a new back wheel, so the untrueness is a moot point. Wheels can be trued, in any event, unless the rim is damaged.

- tires on old bikes are pretty much always awful. So replacement is SOP.

- Those brakes would work just fine with new and better pads. Whole lotta hard miles been ridden on brakes like that in years past.

-That kind of old-fashioned bottom bracket is a piece of cake to overhaul.

-grips can be removed, and replaced with tape of your choosing.

But your plan may work fine. It may not save you as much money as you hope, but it may work out fine. Clearly, "good looking matching parts" are more "desirable" to you than to me. Different strokes. Good luck with the project, and have fun.


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## Jon Dalman (Sep 13, 2010)

JCavilia said:


> Just a quick response on some of the specific things you say are wrong with the bike:
> 
> - If you don't want to go the "suicide hub" route, you need a new back wheel, so the untrueness is a moot point. Wheels can be trued, in any event, unless the rim is damaged.
> 
> ...


By desirable I mean fun and easy to ride, not just looks. I want different bars, a new saddle, Need a new crank for a fix, and to make it lighter, I would need a new chain, new back wheel, new tires, and I don't know how to overhaul a bracket. 
My point is that I think I will get more working parts out the SST for $200 then I would by buying parts of equal quality separately. Then what ever doesn't fit I could sell, including the frame which puts money back in my pocket to get the rest of the parts for the Puch that didn't switch over.


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## Jon Dalman (Sep 13, 2010)

I think I will get more working parts out the SST for $200 then I would by buying parts of equal quality separately. Then what ever doesn't fit I could sell, including the frame which puts money back in my pocket to get the rest of the parts for the Puch that didn't switch over.

plus can't really get ahold of a spec sheet for a 1980 cavette ii.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Jon Dalman said:
 

> By desirable I mean fun and easy to ride, not just looks. I want different bars, a new saddle, Need a new crank for a fix, and to make it lighter, I would need a new chain, new back wheel, new tires, and I don't know how to overhaul a bracket.
> My point is that I think I will get more working parts out the SST for $200 then I would by buying parts of equal quality separately. Then what ever doesn't fit I could sell, including the frame which puts money back in my pocket to get the rest of the parts for the Puch that didn't switch over.


Yep, if you're really committed to new parts, you might be making a good choice. I can't say for sure.

But I'll keep quibbling about some of your points

-you don't need a new crankset --you just need to remove a ring. Both of my fixies have road cranks with a single ring.

-overhauling a bottom bracket is less work than taking the old one off and putting a different on on, which is what you're planning to do. If you can learn to do one, you can do the other

-if you want a different shape bar, then that's what you want. I was responding to your earlier statement that it was the grips that bother you.

-old saddles often wear out, and it's understandable to want a new one. Do you have any idea whether you'll like the one on the SST?

-chains and tires wear out and require replacement. They don't have to cost much. 

The wheels are the big-ticket item. If you're committed to buying a set of wheels so they will be new, and matching, your plan might make sense, depending on the quality of the wheels you'll get with the SST. Others will have to weigh in on that. I guess the whole plan depends on the quality of the SST parts.


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## wooglin (Feb 22, 2002)

I second the suicide hub. Its a quick and dirty solution, and neither the Puch nor the Dawes is worth $200.


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## Jon Dalman (Sep 13, 2010)

but i plan on doing skids, and i've heard those are dangerous for that.
but if i did decide to go suicide,
how could i get bars, stem, grips saddle, bracket, crank, chain, new tires, for under 200?

the thread isn't, what is the cheapest way to turn my puch into a crappy fixed gear.

i want to do numerous upgrades. my budget is $200. from all of my research i've found that buying all these parts new of used would be well over 200. so its either settle for less up grades or buy a used bike.

the reason i dont want to just take a cog off of my crank is because that will leave me with go that is bigger than I want to ride. and i dont want to leave the extra cog on because thats just more weight.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Jon Dalman said:


> *but i plan on doing *skids, and i've heard those are dangerous for that. but if i did decide to go suicide, how could i get bars, stem, grips saddle, bracket, crank, chain, new tires, for under 200?
> 
> the thread isn't, what is the cheapest way to turn my puch into a crappy fixed gear.
> 
> ...


We're obviously not going to talk you out of anything, but it's fun to debate this and point out what I think are some possible flaws in your reasoning.

But first, one that you're dead right on. If you plan to do the hard-backpedaling bit, you want a proper track hub with a reverse-lockring, rather than the suicide hub. So you need a wheel. I'll give you that.

On the other hand, if all the info you have is in that Craig's listing, I don't know if any of those parts are "upgrades" in the sense of quality improvements. I don't know how worn any of the parts are. And you don't know if that saddle is any good, or if it will suit you.

As for the chainring, the gear you get depends on both the ring and the cog. So you can get whatever ratio you want. A 19-tooth cog will get you close to the 70-inch gear that most fixed riders use on the road. Maybe you mean something aesthetic by "bigger than I want to ride" -- you don't like the look of the 52-tooth ring. So you could use the other one. I use the 39 ring. With a 14 cog that gets me a nice 73-inch gear. But maybe 39 looks too small ;-)

One more point about choosing between settling for less "upgrade" and buying a used bike. Correct me if I misunderstood something, but you have a used bike. And you're proposing to "upgrade" it by transferring parts of unknown quality and wear status from another used bike. 

It might work fine. It won't be any less "crappy" than what you'd get via the other methods proposed here, just different.

You like those bullhorn bars, don't you? Personally I don't, but I understand a lot of folks do. Nothin' wrong with that.


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## wooglin (Feb 22, 2002)

Ok, then here's my advice. Buy the Dawes and ride it. At 6"1' it should fit you fine. Also, take the Puch apart completely. Every single part. Then put it back together. Then you'll have two working bikes and the knowledge to fix them both.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

Jon Dalman said:


> I think I will get more working parts out the SST for $200 then I would by buying parts of equal quality separately. Then what ever doesn't fit I could sell, including the frame which puts money back in my pocket to get the rest of the parts for the Puch that didn't switch over.
> 
> plus can't really get ahold of a spec sheet for a 1980 cavette ii.




of course there's no spec sheet on a 30 yr old bike, that's why you need to measure it... you might be in for a rude surprise, and subsequently selling lots of parts, as plenty of standards have changed over the course of 30 years


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