# Ultegra 6800 11-Speed...it's here!



## krtassoc

GetAttac_zps180f0a63.jpg Photo by Ritxis | Photobucket

Shimano Launch New 11-Speed Ultegra - Triathlon Plus | TriRadar.com


----------



## CAADEL

Great. 10 speed Ultegra 6700 will be cheaper and I can upgrade without breaking the bank! 

OK, seriously I never needed more that 2x10 speeds. I don't get this craze for 2x11 speeds.


----------



## Sven_Nijs

Nice. Looks like my wife's new bike will have 6870 then....


----------



## ukbloke

Nice scoop - thanks for the links!


----------



## krtassoc

https://fstatic1.mtb-news.de/f/1j/u0/1ju03bw16xck/large_shimano_ultegra_2014_9100.jpg?0


----------



## krtassoc

Album ZZ_Fotos für Artikel - Fotoalbum auf MTB-News.de


----------



## PlatyPius

CAADEL said:


> Great. 10 speed Ultegra 6700 will be cheaper and I can upgrade without breaking the bank!
> 
> OK, seriously I never needed more that 2x10 speeds. I don't get this craze for 2x11 speeds.


You mean 11 speed like Campy has had for years?

Someone has said "I don't see the need for..." since 5 speed changed to 6 speed. Still just as silly.


----------



## Maximus_XXIV

That is why the UCI is so awesome! They try to contain technological advancement so we can ride the same bikes forever.


----------



## CAADEL

PlatyPius said:


> *You mean 11 speed like Campy has had for years?*
> 
> Someone has said "I don't see the need for..." since 5 speed changed to 6 speed. Still just as silly.


Yes like Campy has had for years. 

I have a 50-34 and a 10-speed 12-23 cassette, so no gaps between gear ratios. I can climb up to 15-17% hills and go downhill faster than 35mph. So what am I missing? Certainly not another gear.


I'm not talking about 8 or 9 speed cassettes. I'm specifically talking about 10 speed cassettes. If you are fat enough to need a 22/36 gear ratio to go uphill, then no 11-speed or 12-speed of infinite-speed cassettes will make you better and faster. But it is silly for anyone to think so.
Anyway, it's your money and you spend it as you like. Corporations always need money to invest and innovate. Please help them while I'll be riding my 2x10-speed bike. Thanks!


----------



## PlatyPius

CAADEL said:


> Yes like Campy has had for years.
> 
> I have a 50-34 and a 10-speed 12-23 cassette, so no gaps between gear ratios. I can climb up to 15-17% hills and go downhill faster than 35mph. So what am I missing? Certainly not another gear.
> 
> 
> I'm not talking about 8 or 9 speed cassettes. I'm specifically talking about 10 speed cassettes. *If you are fat enough to need a 22/36 gear ratio to go uphill, then no 11-speed or 12-speed of infinite-speed cassettes will make you better and faster.* But it is silly for anyone to think so.
> Anyway, it's your money and you spend it as you like. Corporations always need money to invest and innovate. Please help them while I'll be riding my 2x10-speed bike. Thanks!


As a matter of fact, I AM "fat" enough to need something other than an 11-23 to climb hills. My Campy-equipped Cyfac with 12-29 11 speed helps me do that. I don't give a crap about "better and faster", I care about having logical steps between gears which is even more important with a wide-range cassette.


----------



## CAADEL

PlatyPius said:


> As a matter of fact, I AM "fat" enough to need something other than an 11-23 to climb hills. My Campy-equipped Cyfac with 12-29 11 speed helps me do that. I don't give a crap about "better and faster", I care about having logical steps between gears which is even more important with a wide-range cassette.


I guess wide range 11-speed cassettes are for fat people! :lol: 
Thankfully I'm not in your shoes to need 12-29. Great! I can save some money! :smilewinkgrin:


----------



## ukbloke

CAADEL said:


> 10-speed 12-23 cassette, so no gaps between gear ratios.


You actually need 12 speeds for this statement to be true. You'll probably get the option to upgrade to that in about 2020.


----------



## krtassoc

More photos/Info!

Cyclinside.com - Ultegra 2014 va a 11V e imita il fratello maggiore


----------



## vhk30

Giro D'Italia 2010: Stage 16 Results | Cyclingnews.com

"I took it easy when it wasn't steep and I sprinted when it was hard," Garzelli said. "For the gravelled road the smallest possible gear: 34x29.  When I saw my time at the finish, one minute behind Pellizotti's two years ago, I thought I had done really well. Maybe the GC contenders have started too strong on the Passo Furcia."


----------



## SystemShock

Nice thread, krtassoc. I started a similar one in Components/Wrenching, unaware 'til now of yours. 

Props on your Googling skillz. :thumbsup:


----------



## SystemShock

PlatyPius said:


> You mean 11 speed like Campy has had for years?
> 
> Someone has said "I don't see the need for..." since 5 speed changed to 6 speed. Still just as silly.


True dat. But thing is, there DOES come a point of diminishing (and eventually no) returns. You see it coming, I'm sure.

Are we there yet with 11-speed? I dunno. Feels like we're getting close though. 

I guess with mega-range cassettes becoming newly popular for road-riding (11-32 and the like), and also the traditional issues of some ppl 'wanting it all' (i.e. "I gots to have an 11t, and an 18t, and oh yeah, some really low gears for climbing... on a DOUBLE"), one could make an argument that we're not there yet.

What's the limit? Well, racers and racer-wannabees often insist they don't need anything beyond an 11-23 (even though some guys in the Giro use 34x29 and the like in the mountains), so I guess you could have a 13-speed straight-block. Beyond that, it'd just be extra weight and unused/almost-never-used extra cogs.

Of course, there'll always be some nimrod out there who'll want an 11-36 with small jumps throughout... what would that look like? 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25-28-32-36... 15-speed. Wheee.

A light/cheap/reliable CVT system can't come soon enough.


----------



## SystemShock

vhk30 said:


> Giro D'Italia 2010: Stage 16 Results | Cyclingnews.com
> 
> "I took it easy when it wasn't steep and I sprinted when it was hard," Garzelli said. "For the gravelled road the smallest possible gear: 34x29.  When I saw my time at the finish, one minute behind Pellizotti's two years ago, I thought I had done really well. Maybe the GC contenders have started too strong on the Passo Furcia."



Giro mountain stage TT winner using 34x29? Kinda blows up this statement :wink5::




CAADEL said:


> I guess wide range 11-speed cassettes are for fat people! :lol:


----------



## Cinelli 82220

I'm surprised this is announced on a Tri website but there's nothing on cyclingnews or velonews.


----------



## ukbloke

The mainstream outlets are likely under a press embargo. i.e. they've seen the new stuff, written it up but waiting for the official launch date. They won't get early access if they mess with the Shimano machine. Other, less official, sites have probably jumped the gun.


----------



## CAADEL

CAADEL said:


> I have a 50-34 and a 10-speed 12-23 cassette, so no gaps between gear ratios. *I can climb up to 15-17% hills* ...





SystemShock said:


> Giro mountain stage TT winner using 34x29? Kinda blows up this statement :wink5::


I don't think so:



[url=http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/giro-ditalia-2010/stage-16/results said:


> [/url]]
> The key to performing well in today's stage was consistency; as riders faced 12.9km of climbing at an average gradient of 8.2 percent that *maxed out at a ridiculously steep 24 percent*


How often in your life do you climb 24% hills? I guess if and ever am going to go to the steepest Italian slope there is for the Giro, I'll have to buy this uber-cool 11-speed gruppo and have 28t or 29t to climb unrealistic 24% grades. 


But I agree for the need of a super light *CVT* for road bikes. That would be a revolutionary piece I'd love to buy.


----------



## SystemShock

CAADEL said:


> How often in your life do you climb 24% hills? I guess if and ever am going to go to the steepest Italian slope there is for the Giro, I'll have to buy this uber-cool 11-speed gruppo and have 28t or 29t to climb unrealistic 24% grades.


Yah, but by the same token, how often in your life do you have the power-to-weight ratio and VO2 max of a Giro mountain TT stage winner?

Hint: You don't.

So, it's far from crazy that someone, even a non-fat someone, would go get a wide-range cassette for their local steeps, even if they don't quite measure 24%.

And FYI, the Sierra Nevadas aren't too far from where I live, and there are significant stretches of 20% over there. There's also a climb right here in the Bay Area (Bohlman-on-Orbit) that has a max grade of 22%.

Perhaps you live in Florida or something, but in significant parts of the country, grades like that are not unheard of. 




> _But I agree for the need of a super light *CVT* for road bikes. That would be a revolutionary piece I'd love to buy._


Yes, I hope for that too. Certainly long before we get to something like 14-speed cassettes. :skep:


----------



## Maximus_XXIV

SystemShock said:


> Yes, I hope for that too. Certainly long before we get to something like 14-speed cassettes. :skep:


No, Shimano has had a 14sp patent for many, many years so we will see 14sp and then CVT.


----------



## SystemShock

Maximus_XXIV said:


> No, Shimano has had a 14sp patent for many, many years so we will see 14sp and then CVT.


Yah, I'm aware of that patent. But simply because Shimano has said patent doesn't mean that product will ever see the light of day.

Think about a scenario (probably way down the road) where a competitor has a [good] CVT system... what is Shimano going to do, try to flog 14-speed just so they can do two upgrade cycles, and then wind up watching their competitor eat their lunch? :skep:



(since we're having fun speculating on the future, I'd guesstimate the progression as this:

11-speed (now)
12-speed (Campy in 2-3 years, Shimano & SRAM in 5-6 years)
14-speed and/or CVT (over a decade away, likely)
Road goes to 135mm dropout spacing eventually, couldn't tell you when

Why no 13-speed? 'Cuz, silly as it sounds, plenty of ppl have a problem with 'unlucky numbers' like 13 (some buildings don't even have an official 13th floor) plus by the time you're getting into the teens in terms of # of cogs, even a fairly dumb consumer has to think, "Gee, I've already got 12 cogs, so what does having just one more do for me? Probably not much." 

If it were up to me, I'd stop the crazy train at 12-speed and just _wait_ for a good CVT system to come along, however long it took.) 





.


----------



## Zampano

CAADEL said:


> I don't think so:
> 
> 
> 
> How often in your life do you climb 24% hills? I guess if and ever am going to go to the steepest Italian slope there is for the Giro, I'll have to buy this uber-cool 11-speed gruppo and have 28t or 29t to climb unrealistic 24% grades.



There's one 1 mile up behind the house, 24%+ gradient, that I climb every 2-3 months. I pass the time with 17-21% grades weekly. Don't need 11sp to do it, but 11sp allows the 27t climbing cog along with smoother gear transitions than 10sp. The latter is the true utility of 11sp.


----------



## PlatyPius

Saying 11 speed shouldn't exist because *you* don't need it is like saying better, more comfortable bras shouldn't exist because *you* don't have boobs....


----------



## Sven_Nijs

WOW! What happened to the "Ultegra 6800 11-Speed..." discussion?
Seems to have become another endless/winnerless "I do/don't like more/less gears than I currently have" war..... Maybe start a new thread in General Cycling Discussion for that one?


----------



## SystemShock

Sven_Nijs said:


> WOW! What happened to the "Ultegra 6800 11-Speed..." discussion?
> Seems to have become another endless/winnerless "I do/don't like more/less gears than I currently have" war..... Maybe start a new thread in General Cycling Discussion for that one?


Every time they add a new cog, it becomes a "I do/don't need or want that" war. I think that's been doing on since 6-speed got introduced (like 40 years ago).

That's just cycling.


.


----------



## Jason303

All the details here: New Ultegra 6800: 11 Speeds, Lighter, More Ergo | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos
View attachment 279996


----------



## lemonlime

SystemShock said:


> Giro mountain stage TT winner using 34x29? Kinda blows up this statement :wink5::


Obviously, Garzelli's just a fat ass. CAADEL is waaaayyyy better.


----------



## CAADEL

lemonlime said:


> Obviously, Garzelli's just a fat ass. CAADEL is waaaayyyy better.


Exactly! At least my reading comprehension is better than yours. Read #20 http://forums.roadbikereview.com/shimano/ultegra-6800-11-speed-its-here-304268.html#post4339529


----------



## PaxRomana

Bummer. Shop does not expect it in stock until July. Looking to take advantage of the 11-32 option to put on a cross frame.


----------



## mann2

Thing is that 11 speed is here and it suddenly doesn't make any sense to get a 10 speed for the same price.


----------



## Cut.Aussie

I think this is a great announcement from shimano that I think we could all see coming - sooner or later and that's my only gripe, I though it would be another year away so 2 weeks ago I upgraded most parts of my Ultegra Di2 install with Dura Ace 9000 Di2 parts to go 11 speed at a not insignificant expense when perhaps I could have waited for 6800, oh well, at least I get to enjoy 11 speeds to today which as a very heavy rider living in hilly Sydney I really appreciate.


----------



## Sven_Nijs

Surprised we haven't had an official 6870 announcement yet...


----------



## mann2

^ couple of months after launch, most likely


----------



## Metaluna

SystemShock said:


> If it were up to me, I'd stop the crazy train at 12-speed and just _wait_ for a good CVT system to come along, however long it took.)
> .


Yeah, but is there even a clear technological path towards CVT on a bicycle? In other words, is it one of those things where people talk seriously about it, and even have some designs in mind, but we just don't quite have the tech for it yet? Or are you just assuming someone will figure something out by then?


----------



## PlatyPius

Metaluna said:


> Yeah, but is there even a clear technological path towards CVT on a bicycle? In other words, is it one of those things where people talk seriously about it, and even have some designs in mind, but we just don't quite have the tech for it yet? Or are you just assuming someone will figure something out by then?


I have a CVT hub on the rear wheel of my electric hybrid....


----------



## SystemShock

PlatyPius said:


> I have a CVT hub on the rear wheel of my electric hybrid....


Is it one of the NuVinci ones?

Understand that they're nice, but heavy, that's all...


----------



## PlatyPius

SystemShock said:


> Is it one of the NuVinci ones?
> 
> Understand that they're nice, but heavy, that's all...


It's the "light" NuVinci, but yes...it's heavy.


----------



## satanas

From: FAQ | Fallbrook Technologies Inc.

Question: How much does the NuVinci® N360™ Hub weigh?
Answer:
The N360 model weighs approximately 2450 grams. While the weight of the NuVinci rear hub may be greater than that of a rear derailleur drivetrain, multiple chain rings, a cassette and dual shifters are not required.

So how much does the "heavy" NuVinci weigh?!? (And I thought the Rohloff was heavy.) I know it's OT, but any comments on the N360 other than the weight? Thanckx!


----------



## ksauers

How much of an improvement is the 6800 over the 6700? My highend shop I is trying to sell it to me even tho I like Sram. I would settle for Rival but he says this is really good.


----------



## Sven_Nijs

ksauers said:


> How much of an improvement is the 6800 over the 6700? My highend shop I is trying to sell it to me even tho I like Sram. I would settle for Rival but he says this is really good.


I haven't seen any reviews yet but if you look at reviews for new DA 9000 vs old DA you should get a feel for what it's all about. Ultimately though, go with what you are happy with and not just what a salesman says... #demorides


----------



## ksauers

Sven_Nijs said:


> I haven't seen any reviews yet but if you look at reviews for new DA 9000 vs old DA you should get a feel for what it's all about. Ultimately though, go with what you are happy with and not just what a salesman says... #demorides



I do trust his judgement . He knows a hell of a lot more than I do. He does like Sram but he's not biased when it comes to manufacturers. The shifting is much improved he said. i played around with a Ridley that had the new 6800. Unfortunately just on the floor. He's tested a lot of new bikes already this year. He says whatever works best he's for. Of course i can't wait for some test rides.


----------



## SystemShock

satanas said:


> From: FAQ | Fallbrook Technologies Inc.
> 
> Question: How much does the NuVinci® N360™ Hub weigh?
> Answer:
> The N360 model weighs approximately 2450 grams. While the weight of the NuVinci rear hub may be greater than that of a rear derailleur drivetrain, multiple chain rings, a cassette and dual shifters are not required.
> 
> So how much does the "heavy" NuVinci weigh?!? (And I thought the Rohloff was heavy.) I know it's OT, but any comments on the N360 other than the weight? Thanckx!


I think the heavy NuVinci is about 9 lbs. :shocked:

Another prob with the NuVinci CVT is that they refuse to publish any efficiency figures, and have consistently ducked the question when asked about it. This would seem to indicate that it's not a terribly efficient drivetrain in terms of power transfer. 

Of course, neither are run-of-the-mill internally-gears hubs, but the efficiency loss for them vs conventional drivetrains isn't all that much, and plenty of ppl do use them. 

If the NuVinci drivetrains have efficiencies about on par with IG hubs, then they're probably kinda shooting themselves in the foot by refusing to talk about it... ppl will just assume that it must be worse than it probably really is.


----------



## Idsticky

so I have 6700 ultegra set up now, I want the 11-32 6800 for hill climbing. I have to buy a new 6800 cassette 11-32 ($100 on ebay), new 6800 GS derailer($100 on ebay), new 6800 chain($50 on ebay) and new 6800 11 speed right shifter($200 on ebay). Too expensive, parts on ebay call it $450 plus install $100 maybe $550-600 on cheap. What do you guys do here?


----------



## tlg

Idsticky said:


> so I have 6700 ultegra set up now, I want the 11-32 6800 for hill climbing. I have to buy a new 6800 cassette 11-32 ($100 on ebay), new 6800 GS derailer($100 on ebay), new 6800 chain($50 on ebay) and new 6800 11 speed right shifter($200 on ebay). Too expensive, parts on ebay call it $450 plus install $100 maybe $550-600 on cheap. What do you guys do here?


Get a 10sp MTB cassette, new derailleur, and new chain. 
Much cheaper.


----------



## Idsticky

whose 10sp MTB cassette, new derailleur, and new chain do you reccomend?


----------



## tlg

Idsticky said:


> whose 10sp MTB cassette, new derailleur, and new chain do you reccomend?


Try posting your question in the Components, Wrenching forum. You'll get better responses there.


----------



## Cinelli 82220

Idsticky said:


> so I have 6700 ultegra set up now, I want the 11-32 6800 for hill climbing. I have to buy a new 6800 cassette 11-32 ($100 on ebay), new 6800 GS derailer($100 on ebay), new 6800 chain($50 on ebay) and new 6800 11 speed right shifter($200 on ebay). Too expensive, parts on ebay call it $450 plus install $100 maybe $550-600 on cheap. What do you guys do here?


You will also need an 11 speed hub. 

Just sell your bike and buy a 6800 bike.


----------



## cyclesport45

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Just sell your bike and buy a 6800 bike.


Exactly. For sale; one used Ultegra 6600 bike. Archaic 10 speed cassette. Works great. Must make room for new bike that's one faster. It goes to 11.


----------



## Cinelli 82220

Or the cheaper option, buy a 6700 GS rear derailleur and larger cassette.


----------



## satanas

^ Exactly! 

Shimano offer 11-32 in Deore/SLX/XT (11,12,14,16,18,20,22,25,28,32) or SRAM have 11,12,13,15,17,19,22,25,28,32, or IRD have 11,13,15,17,19,21,23,25,28,32. Your call...

In the 2014 parts lineup document, Shimano specifically list their 11-32 cassette as an option with the GS road derailleurs and double chainrings. With a triple they say 30T is okay, but it's *possible* that 32T might work here too depending on your frame; Shimano don't say this is okay but past experience suggests they are conservative in their recommendations.


----------



## mann2

bought my 6700 in 2009 for around 782 USD. the 2013 6800 ultegra costs 598 USD here in the philippines. Add Php 500 to install. 

This pricing is crazy. Too bad i'm not in the market though.


----------



## Sven_Nijs

Mason8DF said:


> I don't get this craze for 2x11 speeds.


I know, it's only been a craze for 5 or so years. These things do take a little time to get used to....


----------



## darwinosx

I can see that you are really an amazing person. Really impressive. But some of us need higher gears for various reasons. Like two knee surgeries on one knee which requires me to spin at a high cadence even on steep hills to avoid injury. But really I think everyone on this Internet forum is very impressed with your gear ratio. Good job. Your parents must be very proud.


----------



## Sven_Nijs

darwinosx said:


> I can see that you are really an amazing person. Really impressive. But some of us need higher gears for various reasons. Like two knee surgeries on one knee which requires me to spin at a high cadence even on steep hills to avoid injury. But really I think everyone on this Internet forum is very impressed with your gear ratio. Good job. Your parents must be very proud.


I suspect this was meant to be addressed directly to CAADEL?


----------

