# Chain Maintenance to lube or not to lube?



## TonyV1 (Aug 7, 2012)

Hi,
I'm wondering about the difference between keeping my chain "clean" vs. lubricating it. I notice it gets pretty mucky/greasy sometimes, and I like to wipe it down with simple green & a soft cloth about once a week, but I don't know if I should reapply chain lube after every wipe down. Please let me know your thoughts & experience...
p.s. if the road is wet I'll do a wipe down & lube after the ride.
p.p.s. Also can you advise if I should just wipe down the outsides of the chain vs. outside, top & bottom (i.e. all of it).


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

your chain needs to be lubricated. if done properly it will never look 'oily' on the outside. there is no reason to have any lubricant on the outside/top/bottom/whatever of the chain. after you apply the lube, you pedal the crank around a few times and wipe off all the excess lube...if you don't road grit and dirt will stick to the chain increasing wear and defeating the purpose of lubricating it in the first place. your idea of lubing every few rides is fine, you could get away w/ once a week or so probably. and yes, rain requires lubrication after every ride.


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## Eretz (Jul 21, 2012)

TonyV1 said:


> Hi,
> I'm wondering about the difference between keeping my chain "clean" vs. lubricating it.


As was said by cxwrench, do both. A clean and lubed chain will operate flawlessly for a long while. With these new narrower chain systems there's a lot of stress on the rivets.

You want to do it the easy way? Competitive Cyclists sells a Parks Chain Cleaning Kit. I use this often, especially in bad weather rides. Cleans the chain very well. Once the chain is completely dry I'll use their Dumonde Bio Green. Buy yourself a Chain Wear Gauge too. The tool will take the guess work out of when to change the chain.


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## TonyV1 (Aug 7, 2012)

Thanks cxwrench. I was more wondering about cleaning between lubrication. is it ok to wipe down the chain completely with simple green and skip the lube? By top & bottom I really mean the inside of the side plates and the "rollers" or whatever the part that houses the pin is called. I'm not certain if I can get to the pin with a damp rag and remove the lube from prior application. I dont have a fancy "on the bike" chain cleaning contraption (with a solvent tank & brushes). I just would like to normally use a damp rag around the chain & run the pedals around.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I keep things simple. For general cleaning (between lubes) I floss the cassette cogs (paper towels, cloths or a rag with some lube applied will do). Using a paper towel (again, with lube applied), wrap the chain tightly in it and pedal backwards, repeating as necessary, turning the cloth/ rag/ paper towel. Done.

For lubing, I apply the lube to the rollers, let stand about an hour, then (similar to above) go back and (using paper towels) hold the chain and pedal backwards, using a different part of the rag/ paper towels, repeating until excess lube is removed. Periodically lube/ clean the RD pulleys. Done.

Unless I'm replacing the chain, I never remove it from the bike, never use those cleaning apparatus and periodically measure elongation with a ruler. Got ~4k miles out of my last (Ultegra) chain, but as always YMMV.


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

TonyV1 said:


> Thanks cxwrench. I was more wondering about cleaning between lubrication. is it ok to wipe down the chain completely with simple green and skip the lube? By top & bottom I really mean the inside of the side plates and the "rollers" or whatever the part that houses the pin is called. I'm not certain if I can get to the pin with a damp rag and remove the lube from prior application. I dont have a fancy "on the bike" chain cleaning contraption (with a solvent tank & brushes). I just would like to normally use a damp rag around the chain & run the pedals around.


If you are using a solvent you will be removing the lube that is currently on the chain so, yes, you would want to lube any time you clean it in that manner. If you want to clean it by just using a dry towel or paper towel then you can get away without reapplying lube for a few rides, the lube will have penetrated the rollers by that point.

You don't need a fancy contraption to clean your chain, and most people would recommend that you don't use one. 

Finally, how dirty your chain gets during rides can be affected greatly by the type of lube that you use and how well you clean the outside of the chain before riding. Try a lube like Rock & Roll Gold or Boeshield T-9. If used correctly both can keep a chain well lubed and very clean. The Boeshield, in my experience, needs to be used every 75-100 miles, while the R&R Gold can go much longer (in my climate and conditions.)


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## TonyV1 (Aug 7, 2012)

Perfect!
I get it ....I'll stay away from the simple green till I'm ready to relube & use the clean (or damp with lube) paper towel/rag approach in between. It's amazing how "black" the chain can get seeming to end up like light grease. I use the Finish Line's Dry Lubricant With Teflon 
Thanks all.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

xjbaylor said:


> The Boeshield, in my experience, needs to be used every 75-100 miles, while the R&R Gold can go much longer (in my climate and conditions.)


I've previously used Tri-flow and Pedro's and was re-lubing fairly frequently...sometimes as often as 50 miles.

recently switched to Chain-L and the lube interval is now every 750-1000 miles.

chain stays cleaner too. I wipe it down every other ride or so and very little gunk comes off on the rag.

the driveline feels 'buttery' smooth. like the product a lot.

solvent never touches my chain. ever.


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## Eretz (Jul 21, 2012)

TonyV1 said:


> Perfect!
> I get it ....I'll stay away from the simple green till I'm ready to relube & use the clean (or damp with lube) paper towel/rag approach in between. It's amazing how "black" the chain can get seeming to end up like light grease. I use the Finish Line's Dry Lubricant With Teflon
> Thanks all.


If you're applying a lot of lubricant on the chain it will *attract* dirt and grime as well. Here's Chain-L that Oxtox was discussing above. Look at the reviews. Maybe this is your issue from the get-go, having too much lube on the chain attracting road grime.



CHAIN-L said:


> Chain-L Lube Lube Reviews
> 
> Product Description
> Three most important requirements of a chain lubricant:
> ...


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

Just because it is clean doesn't mean it doesn't need lube.

Ask your wife.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Chain-L also discussed here on RBR. http://forums.roadbikereview.com/components-wrenching/chain-l-lube-review-finally-281627-2.html

I highly recommend it. Far less maintenance/lubing/cleaning. Quieter and lasts longer than anything I've ever used.


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## slow.climber (Nov 25, 2010)

That's a great tool for removing grit from the chain but it has a down side. It's pretty much impossible to keep the cleaning fluid from getting to the freebub's interface with the body of the hub.

The nylon bushing on Ksyrium wheels is a notorious both for losing its lube and picking up grit. I'm talking about the white nylon thing,

kysrium freehub bushing - Google Search

http://www.pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/FAIL-056.html

So be prepared to pull your freehub off and relube it regularly.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*No cleaning!*



Eretz said:


> As was said by cxwrench, do both. A clean and lubed chain will operate flawlessly for a long while. With these new narrower chain systems there's a lot of stress on the rivets.
> 
> You want to do it the easy way? Competitive Cyclists sells a Parks Chain Cleaning Kit. I use this often, especially in bad weather rides. Cleans the chain very well. Once the chain is completely dry I'll use their [Dumonde Bio Green. Buy yourself a Chain Wear Gauge too. The tool will take the guess work out of when to change the chain.


Assuming we're talking road riding, use the following technique for successful ProLink or homebrew lube (1 part motor oil to 3-4 parts odorless mineral spirits) application and use:

1 - wipe the chain, cogs, pulleys, and chain rings clean with a rag. If there is gunk on the cogs, floss between them with a rag wet with OMS. 
2 – shift to the big ring and the smallest cog and drip on lube while pedaling slowly so that the chain just starts to drip lube. Aim the lube between the side plates and between the bushings and the side plates. 
3 - keep pedaling the cranks for a minute or so to loosen all the dirt on the chain and to get full penetration of the lube. 
4 - thoroughly wipe the chain, cogs, pulleys, and chain rings clean with a rag. 
5 - repeat steps 2-4 if the chain was really dirty 

Do this AFTER a ride, as you want to allow time for the solvent to evaporate before you head out on the road. If you do this every 300 miles or so (or when you get caught in the rain or other dirty conditions), you will not get any significant gunky buildup, and you won't have to remove the chain or the cassette to clean it. This leaves lube on the inside parts, and wipes it off the outside parts, minimizing dirt pickup.

No lube is "perfect." A bright shiny chain that is clean to the touch but is well lubed and gives long mileage is still not possible. IMO, ProLink/home brew is the best compromise among commercial lubes. Other people have different opinions.

And there is no point in chain wear measuring tools. You can learn all you need with a simple ruler. If the chain has elongated 1/16 inches in 12 inches original length (24 links) then it is time to replace the chain. Many "chain checker" tools give bogus results and certainly don't tell you anything you can't learn with a ruler.


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## Eretz (Jul 21, 2012)

Kerry Irons said:


> Assuming we're talking road riding, use the following technique for successful ProLink or homebrew lube (1 part motor oil to 3-4 parts odorless mineral spirits) application and use:


I've been doing between 7,000 and 10,000 miles a year here. Roads are chip seal, tarred and sand, un-shovel ready conditions and the weather suks. I would have to go through a lot of Lube and RAGS to just wipe a chain clean after some of my rides. Some instances I'll clean my chain during a spring or fall day at the office it can be so bad. I like the Parks Tool for cleaning the chain at home. To each their own.



Kerry Irons said:


> If the chain has elongated 1/16 inches in 12 inches original length (24 links) then it is time to replace the chain. Many "chain checker" tools give bogus results and certainly don't tell you anything you can't learn with a ruler.


I work in mm and cc. Rulers can be inaccurate too, how does one go about certifying a ruler's accuracy? Which side of the thick increment are we discussing. LOL. I found that Parks Tools are pretty accurate. I own a nice Gerstner and Son 40's tool box and some bi-annually certified starrett micrometers, a drawer full of sizing blocks with yearly certification and would say that the Parks Chain tool is pretty compliant. You're right, you can do a lot with a ruler as well as an adjustable wrench and hammer.

I been using Pedros Chain Lube [among others listed]. Problem with mineral spirits and a Syn-lubricant [engine oil] concoction is grouping together all those materials and devising a secure delivery and storage system. My present off the retail shelf process still gets about 2k to 3k out of a 7901 chain. I've not yet skipped a gear or ground a cog. 

Crossing fingers.

I do appreciate your input though.

Greatly.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Eretz said:


> I've been doing between 7,000 and 10,000 miles a year here. Roads are chip seal, tarred and sand, un-shovel ready conditions and the weather suks. I would have to go through a lot of Lube and RAGS to just wipe a chain clean after some of my rides. Some instances I'll clean my chain during a spring or fall day at the office it can be so bad. I like the Parks Tool for cleaning the chain at home. To each their own.
> 
> 
> I work in mm and cc. Rulers can be inaccurate too, how does one go about certifying a ruler's accuracy? Which side of the thick increment are we discussing. LOL. I found that Parks Tools are pretty accurate. I own a nice Gerstner and Son 40's tool box and some bi-annually certified starrett micrometers, a drawer full of sizing blocks with yearly certification and would say that the Parks Chain tool is pretty compliant. You're right, you can do a lot with a ruler as well as an adjustable wrench and hammer.
> ...


there are a lot of guys that swear by the oil/oms lube. it works. almost any commercially available chain lube works as long as it isn't white lightning. 

there are a lot of guys that swear you should never really 'clean' a chain thoroughly. they believe you'll remove factory grease that can't be replaced. they're probably right about that. 

i've use chains w/ factory lube left on, i've completely removed factory lube in a heated solvent tank. i've used just about every lube under the sun, including the universally cursed white lightning. at this point i'm using dumonde yellow on one bike and francis' chain-L on one bike. totally different lubricants. they both work great, they both smell funny. i like the 'gear oil' scent of the chain-L, reminds me of the gear box on my shifter kart. 

my conclusion? for me it doesn't make much if any difference in chain life. i keep them very 'clean'...i wipe them down all the time, and i think that makes more difference than anything else you can do. if you want to clean thoroughly, do it. if you want to leave factory lube on, do it. just keep the chain clean, and the cassette/rings too. lube regularly, but keep it clean. can't go wrong w/ that.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*Yep.*



tlg said:


> Chain-L also discussed here on RBR. http://forums.roadbikereview.com/components-wrenching/chain-l-lube-review-finally-281627-2.html
> 
> I highly recommend it. Far less maintenance/lubing/cleaning. Quieter and lasts longer than anything I've ever used.


Chain L rocks! I've been using it on my commuter for a year, smooth as silk. Wipe chain once a couple of rides after application, and it'll go 500 miles before feeling "rough." ProLink lasts about 200 miles, if that.

As far a chain wear: After reading how race mechanics put on fresh chains after only 2000 miles, I've started doing that. Just put the third chain on the same cheap freewheel, and no chain skip! Now 5000 miles on that freewheel, with no appreciable wear. Looking forward to at least another 2 or 4 thousand miles. Used to destroy a cog set in about 5000 miles when neglecting to replace the chain. :frown2:

Never trusted those chain stretch measuring tools. IME, by the time the stretch is measurable, it's too late!


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## Eretz (Jul 21, 2012)

Fredrico said:


> Never trusted those chain stretch measuring tools. IME, by the time the stretch is measurable, it's too late!


Great going on the mileage each year. Refreshing to see a die-hard cyclist such as yourself.

I stick to one brand of chain and use the Parks tool prior to installation to acquire a reference point of 0 as "new." Here's an old post on some specifics, I've never used a ProGold. The beginning of FBinNY's post I don't completely agree with but the rest I do. The Park's gauge is just a Go/No-Go reference as you pick up the miles. A few posts said the Parks Tool was fairly accurate right from the get-go. I may burn through a chain in less than 1,500 miles in early spring with bad conditions [down pours] and winter sand left road sides till mid-April.

progold chain gauge accuracy [Archive] - Bike Forums



ChainTool said:


> FBinNY
> 07-12-09, 02:39 PM
> As others have pointed out, most chain checkers, including the Progold, don't distinguish between roller wear and pin wear, whereas measuring stretch with a scale measures pin wear exclusively.
> 
> ...


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## taralon (Sep 1, 2011)

My current chain has been getting standard oil with a wipe off/cleaning every week and relube. I'm tired of it being gunky all the time and having to be incredibly careful of getting nothing on the rim. As soon as I change the current chain I'm going back to teflon dry lube.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Metric*



Eretz said:


> I work in mm and cc. Rulers can be inaccurate too, how does one go about certifying a ruler's accuracy?


That's just fine, but chains are half inch pitch so you have to convert everything off that. The 1/16 inch elongation corresponds to 0.5%.

Ruler calibration? You have to be kidding. Nothing is that critcally measured. The problem with chain checkers is that they measure roller wear as well as chain elongation and they often only use 2-3 links. Measuring the full 12 inches (or longer if you like) gives a lot more accuracy and you are not confused by roller wear.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

taralon said:


> My current chain has been getting standard oil with a wipe off/cleaning every week and relube. I'm tired of it being gunky all the time and having to be incredibly careful of getting nothing on the rim. As soon as I change the current chain I'm going back to teflon dry lube.


jesus...how much 'standard oil' are you putting on? a drop/link is enough, then wipe off the excess. you should not be getting any on the rim. i don't think it's the lube, i think it's the application.


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## Eretz (Jul 21, 2012)

Kerry Irons said:


> The problem with chain checkers is that they measure roller wear as well as chain elongation and they often only use 2-3 links. Measuring the full 12 inches (or longer if you like) gives a lot more accuracy and you are not confused by roller wear.


I've read many threads on chain check tools over the years. Below is a good thread covering exactly what you just said on roller vs pin wear.

Again, appreciate your input.


Park Tools chain checker and checking chain wear generally


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Kerry Irons said:


> If there is gunk on the cogs, floss between them with a rag wet with OMS.


as an amateur tip...i keep a spool of jute in my tool box, I cut a piece, dampen it in mineral spirits and floss away.....way easier than a rag.

It really works well.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Eretz said:


> I work in mm and cc. Rulers can be inaccurate too, how does one go about certifying a ruler's accuracy? Which side of the thick increment are we discussing.


Any metal ruler or tape measure is plenty accurate. Stay away from plastic and wood. If your increment lines are that thick, you use the center.... or get a different ruler. 

If you're than concerned, get a ruler that meets Fed. Spec. GGG-R-791H for accuracy.
McMaster-Carr

And if you're really really concerned, get one that has a serial number and a certificate of calibration traceable to NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology).
McMaster-Carr

Then you can use the certified ruler to check the calibration of your ruler or tape measure. Only to realize you wasted your money. I work in an ISO company and we have to calibrate our tape measures. We've never had one that was not correct... even the cheapest ones.


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## taralon (Sep 1, 2011)

And that is exactly what I am doing. Unfortunately I seem to always get a drop or two on the rim while doing the application that I don't see until the brakes start shrieking at me. Not to mention the chain gathers dust and grime quickly in the dry dusty Colorado air, plus buildup on the cogs and cranks. Dry Teflon lube? Never had a problem. Which is why I am going back. 



cxwrench said:


> jesus...how much 'standard oil' are you putting on? a drop/link is enough, then wipe off the excess. you should not be getting any on the rim. i don't think it's the lube, i think it's the application.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

taralon said:


> And that is exactly what I am doing. Unfortunately I seem to always get a drop or two on the rim while doing the application that I don't see until the brakes start shrieking at me. Not to mention the chain gathers dust and grime quickly in the dry dusty Colorado air, plus buildup on the cogs and cranks. Dry Teflon lube? Never had a problem. Which is why I am going back.


i'm not going to say you're not doing that, but you have no idea how many bikes come in to the shop i work at covered in chain lube. nearly every customer swears up and down that they use very little lube and always wipe off the excess. i can say 2 things for certain...
1) my bike never looks like that and i lube the chain once a week.
2) i'm really glad we have a heated solvent tank for cleaning drivetrain parts. 
so i won't say 'too much lube', but i'll go with 'not enough rag'. seems like a simple concept, really. if there is lube on the outside of the chain and it's getting flung on to the rim/spokes/frame/family dog, you need to do a better job wiping the chain down.


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## TonyV1 (Aug 7, 2012)

Agree. If measured too long its already too late. Regular (or routine) changing of mehanical components subject to wear like the chain is the best way to keep things running smoothly.


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## TonyV1 (Aug 7, 2012)

Taralon, Why wait for a new chain? Just clean off the regular oil with a solvent, then use the dry lube ...


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## Wetworks (Aug 10, 2012)

Reading this thread with great interest. I've learned quite a bit, but just so I am clear; barring inclement weather, how often should one oil and clean their chain? I'm only doing 75-100 miles a week, so that's not exactly a lot of wear.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

you lube your chain when it needs it. this varies w/ conditions, the type of lube, and how you apply it. once a week should be a good average for most riders. unless it rains, then every ride.


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## taralon (Sep 1, 2011)

I was waiting for a new wheelset to arrive so I could swap chain (which measured close to replacement), wheels and a different cassette all in one go. I probably should have bought a new tire and rotated the front to the rear as well, but I think I'll just ride the current rear for a while longer. It might last until the season ends, and it might not.





TonyV1 said:


> Taralon, Why wait for a new chain? Just clean off the regular oil with a solvent, then use the dry lube ...


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## SFTifoso (Aug 17, 2011)

I use Chain-L lube.

Every 600 miles I wash the chain with simple green, put in the oven to dry (when GF's not looking), put a drop of Chain-L on every link, and let it sit for an hour or so. Then I wipe the excess, put the chain back on the bike, and wipe the chain after every ride.

I have a SRAM chain BTW, which makes it easy to take it off and put it back on without tools.


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## Wetworks (Aug 10, 2012)

Today I decided to clean and oil my chain for the first time. I was given a bottle of Tri-Flow Super Soy lube by the LBS where I bought my BB9. I applied it using the supplied proboscis-like thinger while pedaling backwards. I then held a rag around the chain and again pedaled backwards. Then I (figuratively) rinsed and repeated. 

Did I miss any steps?


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## TonyV1 (Aug 7, 2012)

I'd let the lube sit for while (some folks have recomended up to an hour) before wiping down the chain. This gives the oil a better chance to flow into all of the surfaces its supposed to.


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