# Rebuilding 70's? Steel frame bike, Identify? *LOTS OF PICS*



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

My wife got this bike in Canada years ago. It's been ridden quite a bit and she loves it. So while it may or may not be worth rebuilding, I'm going to do it. It will stay black frame. I've stripped it down and found some identifying marks. I'd like to know what it is if possible. 

Here are some measurements and then lots of pictures.

Bottom Bracket, 68mm English thread. Drive side reverse, non-drive regular
130mm rear drop out spacing, 700 wheels
25.8mm seat tube
30mm headset (1")
Threaded fork
Esge Kickstand mount (3311)
145mm long head tube

BCM stamped on head - BCM was BoCaMa's logo. I guess 61 is the angle of the lugs?

On to the pics










Drive train:


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

Brakes:


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

Other general pics:


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

Tear down:


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

It looks like it was maybe a clay red color before it was spray painted black. But that might just be primer too and it was actually black. Not sure. 

I'm planning on building a freewheel single speed out of it I think. Unless I can find out what it is and rebuild it to original. It's most likely French/British brand. Just guessing though.

Thanks for the help guys!


----------



## Chombi (Jun 23, 2012)

Most likely a late 70's bike boom bicycle by Raleigh as the brakes seem to indicate as Raleigh was also known to use BCM (Bocama) lugs as what's on your bike. The stamped steel dropouts and the welded on Esge sidestand bracket seems to indicate that this might have been a base model town/light tour bike. Tubing most likely seamed high tensile carbon.
It will be on the heavy side built up, but will most likely provide a very nice solid ride similar to a Peugeot UO8 or similar vintage.
BTW, the rear spacing was probably "cold set" wider to the 130mm spec to fit in the more modern wheelset that was on the bike. Original spacing might have been more like 120 or 126mm.

Chombi


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

Thanks for the info. I was thinking that the rear spacing must have been stretched. The wheel that was on it was a 135mm. I'm looking at flip flop single speed wheels and most are 120mm should I put it back? I'm a bit concerned about alignment too I guess - should I check it and how?

I thought the same thing about the sidestand bracket mount - I bet it was a lower end bike. I'd really like to figure it out though - I was hoping the serial number would help.


----------



## Chombi (Jun 23, 2012)

I don't see why you cannot cold set that frame back to 120mm as the frame is not that small, which makes it easier to do the cold set as the seat stays are long enough to take some bending. The dropouts being stamped steel will also be easier to realign if you have to as they will bend easier than forged dropouts. Just take your time if you want to do it yourself. do it gradually with a few pulls instead of trying to do it one one shot, so you do not stress the brazed joints too much. You can also have a bike shop do it for you.

Chombi


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

I'm not sure it's a Raleigh though because the serial number does not have any letters in it and it seems like they mostly have letters according to Retro Raleighs. It might be in the 1974+ range - not sure...

Determining the Age of a Raleigh

Is there any benefit from 120mm vs 130mm drop out spacing? which is more common for single speed? I wouldn't mind having a rear derailleur, but there is not a modern style mount and I really don't like how it was setup when I tore it down....it was Shimano 105 though.


----------



## Chombi (Jun 23, 2012)

I'm not an SS/FG rider, so I'm not sure, but I think that the chainline on most SS/FG bike is something similar or the same to what is used on track bikes, that is, closer to the BB shell (comapred toe derailleured bikes) with shorter BB spindles. I would think that a narrower rear spacing will place the chainline of the rear sprocket much closer to where your single speed crankset line would be then.

Chombi


----------



## bicyclerepairman (Mar 12, 2003)

That is more serial numbers that I have ever seen before on one frame. Is the fork similiarly adorned? I don't think it's a Raleigh, based on the way the seat stays are brazed to the seat lug. Maybe an entry-level 1980's French brand? Or maybe Austro-Dailmer? Some of the French bicycle companies went to English threading when they started sporting Japanese components.


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

What does the SR on the stem stand for? 

Thanks for looking at this guys, I hope I can figure it out one day.


----------



## bicyclerepairman (Mar 12, 2003)

Sakae Ringyo


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

Quick reading tells me that that would make the bike later 70's or even early 80's when the Sakae Ringyo stuff was being made?


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

Also, before I get this frame powder coated, should I take of the kick stand mount and the cable stays? I'm most likely going to run it SS with just a front brake. If I add a rear, I might use some neat chrome cable clamps instead.


----------



## Chombi (Jun 23, 2012)

RedAggie03 said:


> Quick reading tells me that that would make the bike later 70's or even early 80's when the Sakae Ringyo stuff was being made?


Agree with the late 70's age on this bike because of the details on the frame.....but who knows what is original on the bike at this point as it's kind of a mishmash of different brands of components on it. The Esge stand bracketseems to confirm that it's a Euro brand bike (Austro Daimler being another possibility), but as noted, many brands form many countries had this type of bike in their model lineups.

Chombi


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

It looks like a really close match to the Austro Daimler Vent Noir II from the late 70's is a pretty close match. They even use an all number serial number which I haven't found any of the other brands doing like the Raleigh.

The only thing that doesn't match really are the rear drop-outs not having a derailleur hanger and the top tube has braze on's for the cables where the pictures I've seen have the metal clamps.

What else is similar to an A-D so I can keep looking at other brands?


----------



## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

here's a 1972 Raleigh. Originally 5 speed cluster with Nuevo Record [safely stored away] and turned into a single speed. I did not paint it because I like the old patina. The frame and fork are all 531. I had posted some of this elsewhere, but the single speed photos are new.
The project just fit the thread topic so well, I could not resist!

the frame









old TA crankset









It went through a short fixed gear stage. The aero wheels came with it (a gift) and have Phil Wood hubs









with 170 crank arms I went SS - here's the head tube badge and the weinmanns that came with it.









The rear weinmanns and Brooks saddle and bag









I was lucky that I had parts just laying around that I could use on my nephew's gift-frame. I even had the tektro levers, brake shoes and cables and housing.









Rides great -


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

^^ My god. That's beautiful. That's what I had in mind for mine. Black with dished black wheels, front brake only, and SS. LOVE IT!!!

Can you share some specs in the equipment you used? specifically, wheels, hubs, crank? I'm trying to get the drive line figured out, but my LBS doesn't really deal in SS bikes so I'm having to figure it all out. I think I'm going to keep the front all original like yours. What brakes/pads are you using in the front?


----------



## BryanSayer (Sep 22, 2009)

Have you checked the threads, particularly the BB? If the threads are French, that would narrow it down.

Check the Barnett's manuals for chain alignment. If you can't find a set, send me a PM and I'll look it up.


----------



## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

Thanks. I tried to stay true to the Raleigh aura. The wheels came with the bike, so I do not know the particulars. The deep aero rims are a bit of a braking hassle - the rear brake grabs, but I'll wear that down soon enough -- but they look soo good to me that they are staying. These are the first Phil hubs for me. They are high flange front. The back hub is SS/Fixed. Shimano freewheel. I may spring for a White Industries but I'm holding out. The weinmann 610 centerpulls work fine. When it was set up fixed I used just one front brake but went to frnt+rear with SS. The crankset came with the bike, too. I didn't want to pay $50+ for the tool to remove it, so it and the bottom bracket stayed as is. It's a vintage low cost TA. It's easy to approximate one it off e-Bay. The stem is a Nitto Technomic but I cut it down some to fit the Raleigh head tube - that was a super hassle. I had to 're-engineer' the innards of the head tube to use the stem. The bars came with the bike, too. I used Tektro brake levers I already had, rubber track grips for the drops and cotton bar tape. In all, I bought the track grips at Harris Cyclery, and a diacompe center cable bracket for the rear center pull. Everything else either came with the bike ( in a box) or I had it laying about the bike barn. What a great nephew I have!

Look at Harris Cyclery - Harris Cyclery-West Newton, Massachusetts Bicycle Shop A good SS/Fixed resource. I bought some wheels from them that are super - formula/harris cyclery front and a White Industries ENO rear hub, both mavic open pro rims, for my fixed gear bike. They are reliable and make good wheels.


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

BryanSayer said:


> Have you checked the threads, particularly the BB? If the threads are French, that would narrow it down.
> 
> Check the Barnett's manuals for chain alignment. If you can't find a set, send me a PM and I'll look it up.


Yes, the bottom bracket is regular English threaded. The same BB works that I used in my 2009 GF MTB, but it's 68mm instead of 73. So it threaded in all the way nicely, but stuck out when the threads bottomed out. 

I'm not sure what Barnett's manuals are - I'd appreciate any help... I was just shooting for something like 42mm alignment. I was going to get the rear wheel setup first and work my way forward. Then I can get a BB that will help align the rear since I'm doing a threaded on freewheel. 

Is that the right way to go about it?



David Loving said:


> Thanks. I tried to stay true to the Raleigh aura. The wheels came with the bike, so I do not know the particulars. The deep aero rims are a bit of a braking hassle - the rear brake grabs, but I'll wear that down soon enough -- but they look soo good to me that they are staying. These are the first Phil hubs for me. They are high flange front. The back hub is SS/Fixed. Shimano freewheel. I may spring for a White Industries but I'm holding out. The weinmann 610 centerpulls work fine. When it was set up fixed I used just one front brake but went to frnt+rear with SS. The crankset came with the bike, too. I didn't want to pay $50+ for the tool to remove it, so it and the bottom bracket stayed as is. It's a vintage low cost TA. It's easy to approximate one it off e-Bay. The stem is a Nitto Technomic but I cut it down some to fit the Raleigh head tube - that was a super hassle. I had to 're-engineer' the innards of the head tube to use the stem. The bars came with the bike, too. I used Tektro brake levers I already had, rubber track grips for the drops and cotton bar tape. In all, I bought the track grips at Harris Cyclery, and a diacompe center cable bracket for the rear center pull. Everything else either came with the bike ( in a box) or I had it laying about the bike barn. What a great nephew I have!
> 
> Look at Harris Cyclery - Harris Cyclery-West Newton, Massachusetts Bicycle Shop A good SS/Fixed resource. I bought some wheels from them that are super - formula/harris cyclery front and a White Industries ENO rear hub, both mavic open pro rims, for my fixed gear bike. They are reliable and make good wheels.


Thanks for the info and help! Why are the brakes a pain with the deep aero wheels? I like the look, but don't really want to create functional issues.


----------



## kaliayev (Dec 25, 2008)

Between the lug work,dropouts, and braze ons it looks low end. If you can weight the frame you should be able to get some idea of the quality of steel used. I'm guessing hi-ten. Not putting it down, it should make a really cool ss bike. I would not be concerned about drewing it.


----------



## Chombi (Jun 23, 2012)

Definitely not an AD Vent Noir II.
AD's Vent Noirs are considered one of their top models and will not have stamped steel dropouts.

Chombi


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

Right, I agree - the rear drop outs are cheap for sure. Maybe I'll just keep the cheap theme and clean it up and just SS it. 

Since it's going to be a heavy bike and I'm pretty big too...Cheap heavy wheels would be ok right? This bike is just going to be for riding to the bar for fun and things like that. 

Brand New Weinmann Deep V Black 36 Hole Track Fixed Gear Wheels Wheelset Formula | eBay

or should I spend more?

Mavic CXP 22 700c Black Single speed Wheels Track Bike Wheelset Formula hubs | eBay

(I have these on my fancy road bike...should I just change out the rear hub and upgrade my CF road bike wheels instead??)

Or go really fancy?

New Velocity Deep V Singlespeed Track Fixed Gear Wheels Phil Wood Hubs All Black | eBay


----------



## Chombi (Jun 23, 2012)

I dunno, but you should maybe think twice about pouring in too much money on a heavy, low model frame like that.
I say go for the budget build and make it into your daily grinder bike....
That way too, you don't have thieves eying your bike too much whenever you park it outside....
But then the final decision is yours....

Chombi


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

I agree totally. So would the $129 wheels be ok? I mean are the spokes going to fall out and cause me to crash and die? 

I think I can clean up and re-use my stem, fork, BB, maybe my crank....But I need new wheels. The ones I have are mis-matched, FUGLY, and really heavy. Oh and they have lame gears.


----------



## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

RedAggie03 said:


> I was just shooting for something like 42mm alignment. I was going to get the rear wheel setup first and work my way forward. Then I can get a BB that will help align the rear since I'm doing a threaded on freewheel.
> 
> Is that the right way to go about it?
> 
> Thanks for the info and help! Why are the brakes a pain with the deep aero wheels? I like the look, but don't really want to create functional issues.


The aero wheels don't have a brake surface on the rims. The front wheel works OK, but the back does not - I am speculating that it is because a rear brake is new to the wheel. I am a big fan of mavic open pro rims. If I had chosen the wheels that is what I'd have gone with. Looks more retro. One of my aims was to avoid spending any money.

I have had mucho success just setting up the rear wheel and seeing how things work out. They have worked out on the fixed gear I built and on two single speeds I put together. I have been able to eye-ball the chainline. I think you're on the right track.


----------



## Chombi (Jun 23, 2012)

The bike frame is heavy to start with, so I do not see the point of putting any empahsis on getting expensive super light wheels. Go for reliability/toughness instead to match the frame. 

Chombi


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

Chombi, any suggestions? I completely agree.


----------



## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

The $145.00 Weinmann wheels look good.


----------



## Chombi (Jun 23, 2012)

David Loving said:


> The $145.00 Weinmann wheels look good.


+1^^

Chombi


----------



## Easyup (Feb 26, 2012)

Don't know about those Weinmann and they may be an exception but I have ridden rims that were not machined that required much greater lever pressure and stopping distance, neither of which is handled well by my wife or daughters.


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

That's a good point. I see machined and non-machined options. Is it just a difference in performance? Should you use special or different pads? I think I'm going to re-use the 610's that are on the bike now just with new pads.


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

The seat post hole measures at 25.8mm...seems like an odd size - is that a size that was used? I'd like to find a black seatpost in that size.


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

So here is my order for parts. I'm not happy - it's too much to spend on a crappy steel frame. I need to figure out what I can reuse and cut from this list. I was going to get the frame powder coated by a friend for $100, but I may not even do that...










Sucks.


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

I think the only things I REALLY need are the wheels, SS freewheel, and chain. I think I have some old tires and tubes I can use, I have a spare MTB seat, and I'll try to reuse the old crappy crank. I really want the new crank though but I guess I can always do that later.


----------



## velomateo (Mar 7, 2009)

You need to learn the wonders of the "donor bike". I have bought bikes from the thrift store for very cheap and gleaned a pile of good usable parts from them, to install on other projects. I once bought a bike for $5 just to get the crank set it had. I through the frame up on ebay and it sold for $80. You could buy a very nice, ridable bike for the cost of your shopping list. Your parts are out there - they're just hiding on another bike.
Good luck.


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

Well here it is! I finished it up this weekend. She needs a few tweaks still I'm sure, but it was nice to actually ride it again.

Unknown frame
40t/18t gearing
Wabi Cycles wheels
Wabi Cycles rear drop out protectors
DiaCompe / Weinmann Centerpull Brakes Polished
Bontrager MTB bar / MTB style brake lever
Thomson Elite 25.4 seat post
WTB Pure V Comp seat



















Check out that cable run! only about 4" of cable and I used this cool metal 90 degree bend from my old MTB v-brakes. It turned out pretty cool I think.









































































My custom crank...The big wheel had to go, but it is a cheap crank and all one piece...CUSTOM time!


----------



## MrMikeM (Nov 6, 2012)

Nice job, real clean.


----------



## irishstu (Aug 5, 2010)

Very nice!


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

I don't think I ran the front brake cable correctly? Yes, no?


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

Also, what is a good brake pad to use with this setup. The amount of force required is pretty high to get them to really chomp.


----------



## Eisentraut (Sep 18, 2008)

bicyclerepairman said:


> That is more serial numbers that I have ever seen before on one frame. Is the fork similiarly adorned? I don't think it's a Raleigh, based on the way the seat stays are brazed to the seat lug. Maybe an entry-level 1980's French brand? Or maybe Austro-Dailmer? Some of the French bicycle companies went to English threading when they started sporting Japanese components.


I don't believe Austro Daimler used stamped dropouts on any of there frames unless you're refering to the Puch bikes and even those I'v


----------



## Eisentraut (Sep 18, 2008)

bicyclerepairman said:


> That is more serial numbers that I have ever seen before on one frame. Is the fork similiarly adorned? I don't think it's a Raleigh, based on the way the seat stays are brazed to the seat lug. Maybe an entry-level 1980's French brand? Or maybe Austro-Dailmer? Some of the French bicycle companies went to English threading when they started sporting Japanese components.


I don't believe Austro Daimler used stamped dropouts on any of there frames unless you're refering to the Puch bikes and even those I don't think used them.


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

I'd still love to figure out what it is, but I've pretty much given up hope. I couldn't match any of the numbers to anything.


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

I believe it might be a "SR" brand bike. I've found a few that actually match everything - lugs, seat post details, dropouts, and the original components such as the crank all match. It's the closest match I've found to date. It's not the high end semi-pro model - those had nicer lugs and a chrome chain stay.


----------



## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

That is a really nice build. I'd consider a rear brake. Beautiful bike.


----------



## GoldenR (Apr 22, 2012)

Bike came out great. Looks very similar to the bike im working on. I have the same sr headset, similar fork and lugs are close but not identicle. 









Did you use a chemical stripper or did you sand it all off? Thats my next project is a strip and repaint.


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

What bars are you running ColdenR? Looks nice. Yes, your bike does appear to be very similar. 

I used aircraft stripper and a lot of hand sanding. If I were to do it again, I'd pay to have it sandblasted and powder coated. I had a friend that would have done it for $100, but I was trying to keep the costs down.


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

I picked up some new straight bars and grips


----------



## mtnroadie (Jul 6, 2010)

Nice and stealth, good job on the restoration, I like it.

A few things I would change, just my 2 cents… you need to grow a few inches so we can see the full Thomson on that kick @$$ seat post. :thumbsup:

If you want to go full stealth, you got to get rid of the bulky blinkies and those hideous pedal light reflectors. The make really nice small ones like these

Blackburn Click Combo Light Set - Free Shipping at REI.com

Very effective and they would not detract from the bike as much.

I know you just got some new grips, but I would totally put some black Oury grips on there.


----------



## GoldenR (Apr 22, 2012)

> What bars are you running ColdenR? Looks nice. Yes, your bike does appear to be very similar. <br />
> <br />
> I used aircraft stripper and a lot of hand sanding. If I were to do it again, I'd pay to have it sandblasted and powder coated. I had a friend that would have done it for $100, but I was trying to keep the costs down.


Not sure what bars are on it, i did not find any markings, they are a lightweight aluminum though.
100 is not bad, it is lots of work to strip and sand.


----------



## RedAggie03 (Jul 11, 2011)

mtnroadie, I have Oury's on all of my other bikes and love them, but the LBS recommended these and I thought they looked pretty simple/clean. They are not foam, they are some silicon based product. They feel nice.

And yes, I really didn't want to insert the seat post that far, but I'm too short for this bike actually


----------

