# KMC vs. Shimano Chains? learn me sumtin'



## TricrossRich

Both of my road bikes are due for new chains this winter and I'm trying to figure out what to get? On one bike, I've got a full DA9000 groups with chain. ON the other bike, I've got a mix of Ultegra 6800/105 5800 stuff and the stock KMC X11 chain that the bike came with. 

It is my understanding that the KMC X11L is equal to Ultegra while X11SL is equal to DA, is that true?

Is there a reason to go with Shimano over KMC? The KMC has quick link, correct... which makes things a little easier should there be a need to fix on the road, right?


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## DaveT

Both excellent chains. I have a tendency to use the least expensive KMC chains, they perform well. I think the main difference in both brands is the more expensive chains are lighter and 'prettier'.

You can use the KMC quick link on Shimano chains easily.


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## Jay Strongbow

TricrossRich said:


> Both of my road bikes are due for new chains this winter and I'm trying to figure out what to get? On one bike, I've got a full DA9000 groups with chain. ON the other bike, I've got a mix of Ultegra 6800/105 5800 stuff and the stock KMC X11 chain that the bike came with.
> 
> It is my understanding that the KMC X11L is equal to Ultegra while X11SL is equal to DA, is that true?
> 
> Is there a reason to go with Shimano over KMC? The KMC has quick link, correct... *which makes things a little easier should there be a need to fix on the road, right*?


No, not right. If you break a chain on the road your fix options are the same regardless of who makes the chain and if it was sold with a quick link or a pin. In other words you can use a quick link on a shimano chain. But come to think of it I'm not sure if pins are available for KMC, Sram and others or if shimano pins would work. So maybe shimano offers more fix options.

If you believe what shimano says, which I do, there is a reason to go with their chains over KMC and that is that a pin works better than a quick link. Granted they are few and far between but I've heard of people having problems with quick links. Pins are flawless.


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## Oxtox

I've gotten superb service life from the KMC chains I've used.


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## DaveT

8


Jay Strongbow said:


> No, not right. If you break a chain on the road your fix options are the same regardless of who makes the chain and if it was sold with a quick link or a pin. In other words you can use a quick link on a shimano chain. But come to think of it I'm not sure if pins are available for KMC, Sram and others or if shimano pins would work. So maybe shimano offers more fix options.
> 
> If you believe what shimano says, which I do, there is a reason to go with their chains over KMC and that is that a pin works better than a quick link. Granted they are few and far between but I've heard of people having problems with quick links. *Pins are flawless.*


...when properly installed.


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## MMsRepBike

I've had bad luck with KMC chains, I've broken two of them out on the road. I usually don't run a chain past 3000 miles either so it's not from using it too long. I do shift a lot, probably much more than most, but I'm not sure that really matters much. Both that broke were the most expensive gold ones. Last one I broke was several thousand miles ago when I switched back to Shimano chains. I'm using the older 6800 and 9000 and the newer HG600 and HG700 currently. I don't notice any difference between them personally I just know I've never broken a Shimano chain. I don't mind using pins, I could use the quick links if I wanted but I prefer to follow the instructions, I have no issues with the pins if they're installed correctly. I bring a quick link with me in my saddle bag and will use it if I break one out on the road.


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## mfdemicco

I like to take my chain off to clean it. Chain pins defeat that purpose.


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## Blue CheeseHead

I prefer a quick link for chain/drive train cleaning. The new 11 speed KMC quick links say one use only. YBN makes a reusable 11 speed link and it works fine on either Shimano or KMC chains.

KMC seems to have changed their design for the 11 speed to be similar to a SRAM 10 speed power link that is best serviced with a link tool. I have re-used an 11 speed KMC link with no issues. I did really like the 10 speed KMC links that could be installed and removed with your fingers.


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## spdntrxi

I'm also happy with my KMC SL11 chain.. and am currently reusing a link as well with no issues.


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## TricrossRich

Seems to really be a toss up, with peoples opinions being based solely on experience. It seems like the products are fairly similar with no consistent leader, but maybe differences based on how people are using/caring for the chain.

I ended up going with the KMC X11SL. The SL was basically the same price as the L on amazon and was $8 more than Ultegra, but had free shipping (prime member). Normally, I'd buy these from my LBS, but my sister gave me an Amazon gift card for Christmas, so I had to find something I needed.


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## Migen21

I've also broken a couple of KMC chains. Of course, I'm a big guy (6' 5" - 240lbs), so I put a lot of stress on a chain, especially when climbing.

I've got Ultegra 6800 chains on all three of my bikes now, and have had no issues.


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## deviousalex

Doesn't KMC manufacture chains for many other brands including Shimano?

@OP - If you break the chain, the already installed quick link isn't going to do anything. I keep a spare quick link in my saddle bag just in case.


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## cxwrench

deviousalex said:


> Doesn't KMC manufacture chains for many other brands including Shimano?
> 
> @OP - If you break the chain, the already installed quick link isn't going to do anything. I keep a spare quick link in my saddle bag just in case.


Pretty sure KMC makes the high end Shimano chains. 



To Shimano's design specs, not theirs.


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## Kerry Irons

mfdemicco said:


> I like to take my chain off to clean it. Chain pins defeat that purpose.


Your second statement is true. Your first statement defines something you like to do but that has no real value or purpose. I use quick links so I don't have to buy an expensive chain tool for 11s but there is no reason to take your chain off to clean it.


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## mfdemicco

Kerry Irons said:


> Your second statement is true. Your first statement defines something you like to do but that has no real value or purpose. I use quick links so I don't have to buy an expensive chain tool for 11s but there is no reason to take your chain off to clean it.


There is if you want clean it thoroughly.


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## Lombard

In theory, a pin is stronger than a quick link. Though a quick link is great for a roadside repair.


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## deviousalex

Lombard said:


> In theory, a pin is stronger than a quick link. Though a quick link is great for a roadside repair.


Why are these complimentary? You ping the chain when you install it and if it breaks out on the road you quick-link it. If you use a quick-link to install the chain you can't use it to repair a broken chain on the road. It's already on the chain.


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## Lombard

deviousalex said:


> Why are these complimentary? You ping the chain when you install it and if it breaks out on the road you quick-link it. If you use a quick-link to install the chain you can't use it to repair a broken chain on the road. It's already on the chain.




The quick link is the easiest repair which will get you home. Surely you can re-use it for long enough to get home, but it's not wise to leave it there. The pin is your strongest long term solution.


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## mfdemicco

Maybe it's just coincidence but the KMC chains I've used have worn out faster than Shimano.


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## ljvb

My MTB had a chain that was around 50% quick links at one point.. they work just as well as normal links


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## deviousalex

Lombard said:


> The quick link is the easiest repair which will get you home. Surely you can re-use it for long enough to get home, but it's not wise to leave it there. The pin is your strongest long term solution.


If I snap a chain on the road it's getting replaced immediately when I get home.


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## Lombard

deviousalex said:


> If I snap a chain on the road it's getting replaced immediately when I get home.




Exactly!


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## Lombard

ljvb said:


> My MTB had a chain that was around 50% quick links at one point.. they work just as well as normal links




What is that saying about the chain only being as strong as the weakest link? Therefore, in theory, 50% quick links is no weaker than one quick link.  Not a wise move. A game of Russian Roulette IMHO.


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## Migen21

ljvb said:


> My MTB had a chain that was around 50% quick links at one point.. they work just as well as normal links


So many things wrong here... I don't even know what to say.

Well, one thing is for sure. That's one expensive chain.


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## Blue CheeseHead

Lombard said:


> The quick link is the easiest repair which will get you home. Surely you can re-use it for long enough to get home, but it's not wise to leave it there. The pin is your strongest long term solution.


Re-use? If you have a quick link holding your chain together you would need a second quick link to fix the broken link unless it happened to break close enough to the existing quick link to allow for the chain to be minimally shortened.

After 10's of thousands of miles I have never had my own, or seen another rider, have a quick link fail. I have seen poorly installed friction fit pins fail.


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## trailflow

The KMC X11L is equal to Dura Ace level. 
The KMC X11SL is equal to Dura Ace level with sugar on top.

Both excellent chains. For value the X11L wins. And there is only 13 grams difference.



Jay Strongbow said:


> No, not right. If you break a chain on the road your fix options are the same regardless of who makes the chain and if it was sold with a quick link or a pin. In other words you can use a quick link on a shimano chain. *But come to think of it I'm not sure if pins are available for KMC, Sram and others or if shimano pins would work.* So maybe shimano offers more fix options.


No there isn't any available. KMC and SRAM chains are designed differently and not meant to be split and reconnected with a pin otherwise they could fail. 

Quick links are not just for repairs. They are permanent. They are more versatile and simply faster to use. 

I have re-used 11spd QL's many times without issues. 

Shimano pins are very easy to lose being so tiny. And there is more room for error especially if you are trying to fix it in the dark.

And yes you will need to carry spare quick links for emergencies. I carry 2 pairs :thumbsup:


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## Jwiffle

Lombard said:


> What is that saying about the chain only being as strong as the weakest link? Therefore, in theory, 50% quick links is no weaker than one quick link.  Not a wise move. A game of Russian Roulette IMHO.


I don't remember exactly what article I read, but years ago sram said their quick links were stronger than the regular links. Every sram and kmc chain I've ever installed, I've used the provided quick link. Never once a failed quick link.


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## mfdemicco

Jwiffle said:


> I don't remember exactly what article I read, but years ago sram said their quick links were stronger than the regular links. Every sram and kmc chain I've ever installed, I've used the provided quick link. Never once a failed quick link.


I think Shimano is the only chain manufacturer that doesn't use a quick link. In my opinion, quick links are a proven method to connect a chain.


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## ljvb

Migen21 said:


> So many things wrong here... I don't even know what to say.
> 
> Well, one thing is for sure. That's one expensive chain.


Oddly enough, most of them were given to me on the trail as my chain broke during group rides. lol.. I probably used 5 of my own over a period of time. 

And honestly, it was not really close to 50%, I was being a little facetious and trying to be funny. but I did have around 10 to 15 quick links. Never broke one of those, normal chain links are the ones that kept breaking (XT range of chain)


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## Oxtox

mfdemicco said:


> I think Shimano is the only chain manufacturer that doesn't use a quick link. In my opinion, quick links are a proven method to connect a chain.


quick links work fine. ridden thousands and thousands of failure-free miles using them.

and, in 50+ years of riding, I've broken one chain (and it didn't have a QL). 

chain failure is a pretty minor worry...


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## Lombard

Oxtox said:


> chain failure is a pretty minor worry...



......unless it happens to you. I've seen people break chains on group rides, but it was usually a clyde or clydette or due to obvious chain neglect like rust.


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## bvber

Lombard said:


> but it was usually a clyde or clydette


I've seen a smaller guy (+- 160 lbs) breaking his chain before. He was riding a single speed bike and was pushing it hard at the start (out of saddle). Then I heard a "pop" and he almost crashed in the middle of a busy intersection.

BTW, where are those clydettes riding? I know a dude who likes that type...


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## Kerry Irons

mfdemicco said:


> There is if you want clean it thoroughly.


You can clean it more than adequately without ever taking it off the bike. Assuming we're talking road riding, use the following technique for successful ProLink or homebrew lube (1 part motor oil to 3-4 parts odorless mineral spirits) application and use:

1 - wipe the chain, cogs, pulleys, and chain rings clean with a rag. If there is gunk on the cogs, floss between them with a rag wet with OMS. 
2 – shift to the big ring and the smallest cog and drip on lube while pedaling slowly so that the chain just starts to drip lube. Aim the lube between the side plates and between the bushings and the side plates. 
3 - keep pedaling the cranks for a minute or so to loosen all the dirt on the chain and to get full penetration of the lube. 
4 - thoroughly wipe the chain, cogs, pulleys, and chain rings clean with a rag. 
5 - repeat steps 2-4 if the chain was really dirty 

Do this AFTER a ride, as you want to allow time for the solvent to evaporate before you head out on the road. If you do this every 300 miles or so (or when you get caught in the rain or other dirty conditions), you will not get any significant gunky buildup, and you won't have to remove the chain or the cassette to clean it , and no separate cleaning is ever required. This leaves lube on the inside parts, and wipes it off the outside parts, minimizing dirt pickup.

No lube is "perfect." A bright shiny chain that is clean to the touch but is well lubed and gives long mileage is still not possible. IMO, ProLink/home brew is the best compromise among commercial lubes. Other people have different opinions.


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## Drew Eckhardt

deviousalex said:


> Why are these complimentary? You ping the chain when you install it and if it breaks out on the road you quick-link it. If you use a quick-link to install the chain you can't use it to repair a broken chain on the road. It's already on the chain.


Links are sold separately, and you can keep a spare link or two* in your saddle bag.

I buy a convenient card of 6 KMC 10CR missing links for Campagnolo C10 chains when I'm running low. The last one was $14.73 with free shipping from Amazon which is under $2.50 per link.

* In 2015 I discovered it's possible to put two loops in your chain when you have an over-shift off the big ring which corrects itself, bending two links in the process.


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## Lombard

Kerry Irons said:


> You can clean it more than adequately without ever taking it off the bike. Assuming we're talking road riding, use the following technique for successful ProLink or homebrew lube (1 part motor oil to 3-4 parts odorless mineral spirits) application and use:
> 
> 1 - wipe the chain, cogs, pulleys, and chain rings clean with a rag. If there is gunk on the cogs, floss between them with a rag wet with OMS.
> 2 – shift to the big ring and the smallest cog and drip on lube while pedaling slowly so that the chain just starts to drip lube. Aim the lube between the side plates and between the bushings and the side plates.
> 3 - keep pedaling the cranks for a minute or so to loosen all the dirt on the chain and to get full penetration of the lube.
> 4 - thoroughly wipe the chain, cogs, pulleys, and chain rings clean with a rag.
> 5 - repeat steps 2-4 if the chain was really dirty
> 
> Do this AFTER a ride, as you want to allow time for the solvent to evaporate before you head out on the road. If you do this every 300 miles or so (or when you get caught in the rain or other dirty conditions), you will not get any significant gunky buildup, and you won't have to remove the chain or the cassette to clean it , and no separate cleaning is ever required. This leaves lube on the inside parts, and wipes it off the outside parts, minimizing dirt pickup.
> 
> No lube is "perfect." A bright shiny chain that is clean to the touch but is well lubed and gives long mileage is still not possible. IMO, ProLink/home brew is the best compromise among commercial lubes. Other people have different opinions.





Ahhh, there must be more chain lube opinions here on RBR than any other topic. Your advice seems good, but your using motor oil is controversial. Sheldon Brown specifically says not to use motor oil as it contains detergents:

Chain Maintenance 

However, Mike T. on RBR uses a similar cocktail of synthetic motor oil and mineral spirits and gets 11K miles out of his chains:

Chains 

Mike T. also uses WD-40 as a cleaner before the lube process.


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## Blue CheeseHead

Lombard said:


> Sheldon Brown specifically says...





> There are several ways that people try to clean their chains. Only those which involve removing the chain from the bicycle are very satisfactory.


Chain Maintenance 

Regardless, I have found a motor oil and OMS home brew to be perfectly fine and suitable for hundreds of miles of riding without squeaking.


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## mfdemicco

Lombard said:


> Ahhh, there must be more chain lube opinions here on RBR than any other topic. Your advice seems good, but your using motor oil is controversial. Sheldon Brown specifically says not to use motor oil as it contains detergents:
> 
> Chain Maintenance
> 
> However, Mike T. on RBR uses a similar cocktail of synthetic motor oil and mineral spirits and gets 11K miles out of his chains:
> 
> Chains
> 
> Mike T. also uses WD-40 as a cleaner before the lube process.


I don't see the point of diluting motor oil with mineral spirits. Oil has no problem with penetration into the loose tolerances of a chain. 

The late Jobst Brandt said never oil a dirty chain. That moves dirt inside the chain and dirt is what causes wear. He got 10,000 miles out of a chain using 30 weight motor oil.


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## Jay Strongbow

On a site where people buy and sell $6000 frames like they're going out of style the OCD about getting a few extra miles out of a $25 part (chain) kind of cracks me up. I know I'm exaggerating and it's probably not the same people postng about high dollar that post about chain care but it still cracks me up.


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## Drew Eckhardt

Jay Strongbow said:


> On a site where people buy and sell $6000 frames like they're going out of style the OCD about getting a few extra miles out of a $25 part (chain) kind of cracks me up. I know I'm exaggerating and it's probably not the same people postng about high dollar that post about chain care but it still cracks me up.


Amortized over the time I've owned it my titanium frame cost me $4 a month, and I'll keep riding it for the forseeable future.

A $25 chain costs me $5-$6 a month. A $40 tire runs $8-$9 a month. A $4 shift cable is $2 a month.

Obsessing about the consumables will impact my wallet more than riding a nice frame and Record Titanium components.


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## mfdemicco

Jay Strongbow said:


> On a site where people buy and sell $6000 frames like they're going out of style the OCD about getting a few extra miles out of a $25 part (chain) kind of cracks me up. I know I'm exaggerating and it's probably not the same people postng about high dollar that post about chain care but it still cracks me up.


On the other hand, a $6000 bike with a filthy drivetrain... What's wrong with that picture?


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## Drew Eckhardt

Oxtox said:


> quick links work fine. ridden thousands and thousands of failure-free miles using them.
> 
> and, in 50+ years of riding, I've broken one chain (and it didn't have a QL).
> 
> chain failure is a pretty minor worry...


With 8 cogs or more I've broken at least three in 19 years without shifting under load, some while weighing under 150 pounds.

That could have been due to my C8/C9 chains because Campagnolo didn't switch to flush peened rivets until moving to 10 cogs, and they stay on longer while elongating - 5000 miles to reach 1/32" at which point I replace anyways because side wear has degraded shifting.

I also bent two links when the chain came off my big ring then went back on putting two loops in itself.


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## Blue CheeseHead

mfdemicco said:


> I don't see the point of diluting motor oil with mineral spirits. Oil has no problem with penetration into the loose tolerances of a chain.
> 
> The late Jobst Brandt said never oil a dirty chain. That moves dirt inside the chain and dirt is what causes wear. He got 10,000 miles out of a chain using 30 weight motor oil.


The OMS helps to clean the dirt out and helps get the oil into all the spots. When it evaporates it leaves a thin film of oil on the parts, which tends to collect less dirt than a thick glob of oil.


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## aclinjury

I have bronken 2 Shimano chains, pins broke. One was on my mtb bike, and one was on climbing road bike. But haven't broken any quick links yet.


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## Blue CheeseHead

Damn, just broke my first chain today. Just finished a ride on the Mukluk and decided to ride through our virgin snow yard.  It broke at a standard pin. Only about 300 miles on it. Pretty sure it's a SRAM.


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## TricrossRich

OK... so i put the new chain on last night. I can feel that it has a film on it... does it need to lubed prior to use? or is the film I'm feeling, a perfectly lubed chain, ready to go?

Bike #2 gets swapped the afternoon.


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## TricrossRich

TricrossRich said:


> OK... so i put the new chain on last night. I can feel that it has a film on it... does it need to lubed prior to use? or is the film I'm feeling, a perfectly lubed chain, ready to go?
> 
> Bike #2 gets swapped the afternoon.


::edit.... just checked KMC's website and I found in the FAQ, Chains are lubed, ready to run.


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## MMsRepBike

TricrossRich said:


> ::edit.... just checked KMC's website and I found in the FAQ, Chains are lubed, ready to run.


yes, but...

I never put a chain on right out of the package, they always get soaked in mineral spirits overnight and rinsed/dried first. Why? Compatibility issues. Is that stock lube on the chain compatible with whatever you're going to put on it? What if it isn't?


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## Lombard

Blue CheeseHead said:


> Damn, just broke my first chain today. Just finished a ride on the Mukluk and decided to ride through our virgin snow yard.  It broke at a standard pin. Only about 300 miles on it. Pretty sure it's a SRAM.


Who installed that chain? I didn't think SRAM or KMC used a pin, only Shimano. My only guess is that your SRAM chain was attached using the Shimano pin. That's a definite no-no.


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## Oxtox

TricrossRich said:


> ::edit.... just checked KMC's website and I found in the FAQ, Chains are lubed, ready to run.


fwiw, Sheldon says to never remove the mfg's lube. see below...

Factory Lube

New chains come pre-lubricated with a grease-type lubricant which has been installed at the factory. This is an excellent lubricant, and has been made to permeate all of the internal interstices in the chain. This factory lube is superior to any lube that you can apply after the fact [well, unless...see below -- John Allen].

Some people make the bad mistake of deliberately removing this superior lubricant. Don't do this!

The factory lubricant all by itself is usually good for several hundred miles of service if the bike is not ridden in wet or dusty conditions. It is best not to apply any sort of lube to a new chain until it is clearly needed, because any wet lube you can apply will dilute the factory lube.


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## Blue CheeseHead

Lombard said:


> Who installed that chain? I didn't think SRAM or KMC used a pin, only Shimano. My only guess is that your SRAM chain was attached using the Shimano pin. That's a definite no-no.


Chain was original. Turns out it was a KMC and it happened to be the Missing Link that failed, but it did not fail at the one of the removable pin to plate connections. One of the plates broke on the side where the pin was pressed in. I will post a picture.

Well, I can no longer say that I have not broken a KMC chain or a missing link, I killed two birds with one stone. 

BTW, this is a 10 speed setup. Given the chain only has 300 miles on it I installed a new missing link and will give it a go. (Saddle bag has another missing link and chain tool, just in case.


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## TricrossRich

Oxtox said:


> fwiw, Sheldon says to never remove the mfg's lube. see below...
> 
> Factory Lube
> 
> New chains come pre-lubricated with a grease-type lubricant which has been installed at the factory. This is an excellent lubricant, and has been made to permeate all of the internal interstices in the chain. This factory lube is superior to any lube that you can apply after the fact [well, unless...see below -- John Allen].
> 
> Some people make the bad mistake of deliberately removing this superior lubricant. Don't do this!
> 
> The factory lubricant all by itself is usually good for several hundred miles of service if the bike is not ridden in wet or dusty conditions. It is best not to apply any sort of lube to a new chain until it is clearly needed, because any wet lube you can apply will dilute the factory lube.


No worries, I'm not removing the mfg's lube..


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## MMsRepBike

No way.

My lube is better than their lube! :incazzato:


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## bvber

If someone can get the supplier for those superior factory lube to sell some to him, he can get a good chain lube business going. Imagine the marketing line, "Same superior lube the chain factory uses..." :idea:


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## Lombard

bvber said:


> If someone can get the supplier for those superior factory lube to sell some to him, he can get a good chain lube business going. Imagine the marketing line, "Same superior lube the chain factory uses..." :idea:


All I know is that "superior factory lube" is as sticky as flypaper and is also a superior dirt magnet.


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## mfdemicco

Lombard said:


> All I know is that "superior factory lube" is as sticky as flypaper and is also a superior dirt magnet.


Agreed. That stuff is nothing but grease. I strip it off first thing by soaking the chain in mineral spirits.


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## Oxtox

mfdemicco said:


> Agreed. That stuff is nothing but grease. I strip it off first thing by soaking the chain in mineral spirits.


I wipe a new chain with a rag, put a week's worth of rides on it, and then apply my regular lube.

no issues with dirt accumulation.


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## Blue CheeseHead

Here's the broken link. (Yes, I know it's dirty, it's my fat bike)


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## Lombard

Blue CheeseHead said:


> Here's the broken link. (Yes, I know it's dirty, it's my fat bike)


Nice work! Consider it a testament of your superior leg strength.  

Or possibly, you jinxed yourself with your previous remark below:



Blue CheeseHead said:


> After 10's of thousands of miles I have never had my own, or seen another rider, have a quick link fail. I have seen poorly installed friction fit pins fail.


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## ljvb

Lombard said:


> Nice work! Consider it a testament of your superior leg strength.
> 
> Or possibly, you jinxed yourself with your previous remark below:


Or he shifted while cranking away up a hill under full power


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## marathon marke

Blue CheeseHead said:


> The OMS helps to clean the dirt out and helps get the oil into all the spots. When it evaporates it leaves a thin film of oil on the parts, which tends to collect less dirt than a thick glob of oil.


I get better results using a separate cleaner and lube. Spraying with WD-40 cleans well without stripping the chain completely. Then I apply the lube of my choice. I have few, and I don't lose any sleep if they aren't perfectly "compatible".


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## bvber

Blue CheeseHead said:


> Here's the broken link. (Yes, I know it's dirty, it's my fat bike)


The rest of the chain looks like it had its share of (ab)use. Perhaps the replacement was overdue?


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## Blue CheeseHead

bvber said:


> The rest of the chain looks like it had its share of (ab)use. Perhaps the replacement was overdue?


Only about ~300 miles, mostly off road. The pins had no discernible wear. Once cleaned it looked pretty good.


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## Lombard

Blue CheeseHead said:


> Only about ~300 miles, mostly off road. The pins had no discernible wear. Once cleaned it looked pretty good.



That should not happen in 300 miles unless you are a mega-clyde super masher.


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## Blue CheeseHead

Lombard said:


> That should not happen in 300 miles unless you are a mega-clyde super masher.


It's what happens when 215#'s tries to push a 4" tire through 6-7" of heavy virgin snow. Rookie move on my part. Luckily it was in my back yard, so the walk to the garage was not far.


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## nhluhr

cxwrench said:


> Pretty sure KMC makes the high end Shimano chains.
> 
> 
> 
> To Shimano's design specs, not theirs.


It is exactly the opposite. KMC only manufactures Shimano's low-end chains. You can see the exact models listed in KMCs own catalog at E-catalogue_Product_KMC Chain - check out page 10.

There you see all the "Licensed by Shimano" chains they make which include:

CN-4601
CN-HG73B
CN-HG53
CN-HG71
CN-HG40
CN-NX10


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## shoji.triathlon

My bike has kmc chain, and I ride almost 2000mile. But it is not stretched yet, according to checking by parktool.


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## Steve B.

Blue CheeseHead said:


> I prefer a quick link for chain/drive train cleaning. The new 11 speed KMC quick links say one use only. YBN makes a reusable 11 speed link and it works fine on either Shimano or KMC chains.
> 
> KMC seems to have changed their design for the 11 speed to be similar to a SRAM 10 speed power link that is best serviced with a link tool. I have re-used an 11 speed KMC link with no issues. I did really like the 10 speed KMC links that could be installed and removed with your fingers.


This 

The KMC 11 spd. chain is, according to KMC, not re-usable and requires a chain tool to install. I found this out while attempting to use on a Shimano 11 spd. Ultegra chain and could not install by hand. 

Thus I was not seeing any advantage over simply using the Shimano replacement pins and a chain tool I already owned.


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## Srode

Steve B. said:


> This
> 
> The KMC 11 spd. chain is, according to KMC, not re-usable and requires a chain tool to install. I found this out while attempting to use on a Shimano 11 spd. Ultegra chain and could not install by hand.


What was the problem? I've installed quite a few and never needed a tool for install, I do to take it apart though. Just put it on the top section of chain and pop the pedal with your hand and it snaps right in place.


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## Lombard

shoji.triathlon said:


> My bike has kmc chain, and I ride almost 2000mile. But it is not stretched yet, according to checking by parktool.


This is very possible. How many miles it takes a chain to wear depends on many different factors like rider weight, rider strength, riding style (whether you're a spinner or a masher), whether you ride only in dry conditions or also in rain and wet roads and dirty dusty conditions, how well you lube you chain, etc., etc.

So as you can see, the big answer to how long will your chain last is.......it depends.


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## mfdemicco

Blue CheeseHead said:


> Here's the broken link. (Yes, I know it's dirty, it's my fat bike)
> 
> View attachment 311507


I've had two KMC quick links break on me. The flange broke off one of the pins.


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## Lombard

mfdemicco said:


> I've had two KMC quick links break on me. The flange broke off one of the pins.


Maybe you're just too strong.


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## crit_boy

mfdemicco said:


> I've had two KMC quick links break on me. The flange broke off one of the pins.


http://forums.roadbikereview.com/components-wrenching/kmc-chain-missing-link-fakes-360316.html


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## mfdemicco

Blue CheeseHead said:


> Only about ~300 miles, mostly off road. The pins had no discernible wear. Once cleaned it looked pretty good.


Did that broken link come with the chain? Was it made in Taiwan or China?


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## jetdog9

So Shimano chains come with quick links now... but they are not reusable. If memory serves me correctly, neither are the KMC 11-speed missing links.

If they aren't reusable, what is the point of using them instead of a pin? With a good chain tool (heck, any chain tool) I don't find the Shimano link pins to be a hassle at all.

OK... I know people have said (even cxwrench) that quick links that say they are for one-time use can actually be reused. Has anybody ever done this and had it result in a failure here?

I've got an assortment of both but I've actually only used the pins. I just put on a new Shimano chain that came with a quick link but opted to use a pin instead since I've still got 5-6 left.


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## Jay Strongbow

jetdog9 said:


> So Shimano chains come with quick links now... but they are not reusable. If memory serves me correctly, neither are the KMC 11-speed missing links.
> 
> If they aren't reusable, what is the point of using them instead of a pin? With a good chain tool (heck, any chain tool) I don't find the Shimano link pins to be a hassle at all.
> 
> OK... I know people have said (even cxwrench) that quick links that say they are for one-time use can actually be reused. Has anybody ever done this and had it result in a failure here?
> 
> I've got an assortment of both but I've actually only used the pins. I just put on a new Shimano chain that came with a quick link but opted to use a pin instead since I've still got 5-6 left.


If pins aren't reusable what's the point in including those instead of quick links?

I find the pins pretty easy to deal with too. But quick links are easier and more dummy proof. Why not?


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## GlobalGuy

DaveT said:


> Both excellent chains. I have a tendency to use the least expensive KMC chains, they perform well. I think the main difference in both brands is the more expensive chains are lighter and 'prettier'.
> 
> You can use the KMC quick link on Shimano chains easily.


^^^^^^
Mirrors my experience and opinion.


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## mfdemicco

Jay Strongbow said:


> If pins aren't reusable what's the point in including those instead of quick links?
> 
> I find the pins pretty easy to deal with too. But quick links are easier and more dummy proof. Why not?


YBN 11 speed quick links can be used up to 5 times.


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## BacDoc

Purely anecdotal but I think relevant.

Introduced younger friend of mine to cycling (MTB), strong ex pro football guy, highly motivated. First year of mostly XC, killer single track but no down hill/big drop stuff, he broke everything! Frame, chains, wheels etc. Raw power and youthful exuberance to the max, top twenty Strava segments based purely on fitness and power and no cycling ability. 

Eventually he learned to spin, weight/unweight along with tech skills and he got even faster. Now he is top 5/10 in Strava segments and hasn’t broken anything in past year. He always was running KMC (due to my advice gold sl by the way lol!) and hasn’t broken a chain while putting out more watts than ever. This guy is pure beast and probably still puts out as much or more hurt on bike than ever. If you want to test any component this is your guy, at 6’2” and 215lbs of solid muscle and quads like a speed skater.

My point is technical skill trumps anything and KMC makes good sh$t!


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## jlsherred1991

DaveT said:


> Both excellent chains. I have a tendency to use the least expensive KMC chains, they perform well. I think the main difference in both brands is the more expensive chains are lighter and 'prettier'.
> 
> You can use the KMC quick link on Shimano chains easily.


I have had a few bikes in the past 10 years, never used a kmc chain before, always had a shimano chain, however on using as a daily commuter to work and back, the chains life depends on the price point of the bike, for example i bought an appollo transfer from halfords they use everything shimano, i cycle about 40 miles a week and the chain is already on its way out 5 months down the line, however when i bought a gt transeo for around 450gbp from wiggle, i believe they used shimano chains too, but had no problems for about a year and id easily cycle 20 miles a day or more, i have just ordered a carrera subway all weather edition which has a kmc chain on it the x9 i believe its called, for me reliability and performance is a must as i use it for transport to work, is the kmc any better than the shimano chains, i tend to go for hybrids as they lighter and quicker, so would it be ideal to change for a shimano chain or stick with kmc


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## No Time Toulouse

jlsherred1991 said:


> I have had a few bikes in the past 10 years, never used a kmc chain before, always had a shimano chain, however on using as a daily commuter to work and back, the chains life depends on the price point of the bike, for example i bought an appollo transfer from halfords they use everything shimano, i cycle about 40 miles a week and the chain is already on its way out 5 months down the line, however when i bought a gt transeo for around 450gbp from wiggle, i believe they used shimano chains too, but had no problems for about a year and id easily cycle 20 miles a day or more, i have just ordered a carrera subway all weather edition which has a kmc chain on it the x9 i believe its called, for me reliability and performance is a must as i use it for transport to work, is the kmc any better than the shimano chains, i tend to go for hybrids as they lighter and quicker, so would it be ideal to change for a shimano chain or stick with kmc


Wow, that is the best example of a "run-on sentence" that I've ever seen!


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## Oxtox

have used KMC for the last decade. routinely get 7-10K miles of use from even the cheaper models.

fwiw, in 100K+ miles, the only chain I've ever broken was a shimano DA unit.


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## jlsherred1991

Thanks, all the bikes i have owned have used shimano before, this would be my second bike around the 450 gbp mark


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