# Age old question: Go free, cheap or expensive?



## Zaurusman (Feb 2, 2006)

I've been thinking about this all day long...

So I have a '93 Giant Nutra hybrid bike, cro-mo main triangle, big frame that I was fitted to 13 years ago, cantilever brakes, rapid fire shifters controlling a triple up front and 7-speed rear cassette, all low-end Shimano. Chain stay's a good 17-18 inches, plenty o' eyelets for rack, etc (in fact, test fit a rear rack and fenders w/o issue). Flat bars, a couple inches below my seat. Bicycle was $300 stock.

I want to use this short term for just group rides, now dusted off, and long term as my do-anything bike that is good for commuting should I live in such an environment, light dirt road usage and most importantly, touring - combing cycling with my love of travel. I figure I'll probably buy a dedicated road bike in a year or two, and it'll cost a lot more than any planned upgrades for this old boy and I'll use it for faster group rides, centuries, etc.

I've found two ways to go with upgrades, learning the mechanics and doing it myself:

$100: Install drop bars, get friction shifters on the downtube, and of course non-shifting brake levers for the bars.

$300: Install drop bars, replace the entire drivetrain with the good stuff -- go to Shimano 105 derailleurs, rear cassette, bottom bracket, shifters/brake levers, with Nashbar Trekking crank and rings for lower gearing and price than the 105's. If I'm going to replace the drivetrain, I'm not going with super-cheap parts.

These are both less expensive than running out and buying a touring bike, and both figures are fairly conservative new product costs. I'll probably scour eBay for the more expensive stuff but don't know exactly how much I'll save. The other option is to leave it alone, do as well as I can in flat but windy Dallas with flat bars, not learn how to disassemble and reassemble my bike (but that's hard because I've given up making autos faster ($$) and yearn for the wrench again, plus love making things better and upgrading the underdog!)

I don't have experience on a true road bike and have never ridden past 60 miles or so on a single ride, and never in a group -- I want to get active in cycling this year and need it to motivate quitting smoking. I do have plenty of experience on the bike on the road and really like it, partially because it fits pretty well and I'm used to it, partially for sentimental reasons (old friend and what not). Which biases me and shows my inexperience with even drop bars in the first place. 

So guys and gals with some experience under your belts, what do y'all recommend?


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## Steel_SSer (Jan 13, 2006)

What about borrowing $ and getting a fully built, ready to go Surly Cross-Check?

IMO, they're the best bang for the buck and this bike does many things really well - commuting, long rides, blah, blah, blah.

Have you tried the classified section of roadbikereview.com for a great used one? I think you can find them new for less than $800. I know that might seem like a lot of $, but if you justify better health, less money for commuting and smudge the math, it all makes perfectly good sense to borry $ for a decent bike. How much is it worth when you walk by it everyday as it hangs from your ceiling in the living room - or as it sits next to your bed?

That, my friend, is what they call "priceless"!

Somehow borrow some cash then find your best deal on a Cross-Check then ride, ride, ride. You'll never regret it, I promise.


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

What size are the wheels? Some of the Giant hybrids had 700C wheels, others had 26X1.38" tires which were built for classic 26" ATB wheels, 559mm.

If'n I were you, I'd go BOBish on the Nutra. Get a set of moustache bars (www.nashbar.com has them cheap), foam or cork handlebar tape (also from Nashbar), some used bar-con shifters (http://tinyurl.com/s3gqn), and a cheap pair of road brake levers (also from Nashbar). The whole set would cost you ~$100. When you were done, you'd have a really nice, comfy road bike that could keep up with all those drop-bar hooligans but which would earn double bonus style points with the hip-but-not-racy bike crowd.

Check out some nice examples of what I am talking about at http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/

Good luck!

- FBB


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## Zaurusman (Feb 2, 2006)

Wow, some of those rides look just as user-friendly as user-friendly gets - thanks! I'm not sure I want to go the mustache route when I'm a pretty traditional kinda guy and joining the drop-bar hooligans sounds all the more enticing when you phrase it that way, heh heh, but those are still really neat.

The bike has 700C wheels, and I even put 23mm Michelin Carbons on them to try out and see how it responds last weekend though I haven't had a chance to try 'em out yet.

Are downtube shifters independently adjustable? The guy I talked to online through Nashar yesterday said any of them can be used in friction mode ... can you set the front to friction and the rear to click? He only suggested that click wouldn't work on my MTB front derailleur, but would on my rear one. I'm leaning heavily towards downtube shifters now - are they okay for touring?


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

Zaurusman said:


> Are downtube shifters independently adjustable?


What kinf of derailleur/cassette do you have? You will have to match the shift levers to the rest of the drivetrain in terms of brand and no. of gears. I've never seen an indexed front DT lever. All the rear ones made since 1987 or so can be switched back and forth between friction and index mode.

Have fun!


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## grisezd (Jun 2, 2004)

*Why not bar ends or bullhorns?*



fbagatelleblack said:


> What kinf of derailleur/cassette do you have? You will have to match the shift levers to the rest of the drivetrain in terms of brand and no. of gears. I've never seen an indexed front DT lever. All the rear ones made since 1987 or so can be switched back and forth between friction and index mode.
> 
> Have fun!


I converted a mountain bike to similar duty a few years ago. I found some GT-branded wide bullhorns (for mountainbikes, in short supply now probably) on clearance (probably nashbar) and mounted my mtb brake lever/shifter combo (thumbies!!), wrapped with some nice Cinelli cork for flair and rode it like the wind. Plenty of hand positions. I think I have all of $30 in the conversion. It somehow lost it's shifters and derailers and spins now just one cog, good rain bike and no more money in the hole. 

Note: please don't take my use of Nashbar's name as an endorsement. 15 days to ship two tires across Ohio my eye. From now it's LBS (hour away) or eBay for me!


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## Zaurusman (Feb 2, 2006)

You know, I could always just look a little odd and use the friggin' shifters I have already, huh? Less of a stretch than to the downtube, too - I could shift out of the saddle! Jeeze, why didn't I think of that?

What's better on a dropped bar bike -- shifters hanging from the flat, or downtube shifters? Is it easier to reach downtube shifters when in the bars?


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## beaker (Feb 2, 2005)

*DT braze ons?*

Here's the $64,000 question, can your bike use downtube shifters? 

Most hybrids don't have the required braze ons on the downtube that are necessary to mount a set of downtube shifters. 

I've seen the adapter bands on 70's era road bikes, but I'm not sure if there is an adapter band available that will work with modern DT shifters. 

If you don't have the braze ons, and definitely want to make the component upgrades, you will have to use STI or barcons.


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## Zaurusman (Feb 2, 2006)

beaker said:


> Here's the $64,000 question, can your bike use downtube shifters?
> 
> Most hybrids don't have the required braze ons on the downtube that are necessary to mount a set of downtube shifters.
> 
> ...


Nope. I assumed that because the shifters I was looking at required that I specify narrow or wide tube, they came with the clamp but maybe not. What is the downside to MTB style shifters hanging under the flat part of the bar, that road bikes came with downtube shifters instead?


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## achiral (Feb 24, 2005)

Zaurusman said:


> Nope. I assumed that because the shifters I was looking at required that I specify narrow or wide tube, they came with the clamp but maybe not. What is the downside to MTB style shifters hanging under the flat part of the bar, that road bikes came with downtube shifters instead?


Standard mountain shifters will not work on road bars. MTB bar diameter is 25.4mm (1 inch), whereas road handlebars are either 25.8 or 26.0 mm.


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

achiral said:


> Standard mountain shifters will not work on road bars. MTB bar diameter is 25.4mm (1 inch), whereas road handlebars are either 25.8 or 26.0 mm.


I bet you could use the cheap thumbies out of the Rivendell catalog. They have a flexible clamp rather than a molded piece, so you could probably absorb the extra 0.4 or 0.6mm. I've been using them for a few months and they work well.

http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/shifters_derailleurs/17097.html

- FBB


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## StageHand (Dec 27, 2002)

Zaurusman said:


> Nope. I assumed that because the shifters I was looking at required that I specify narrow or wide tube, they came with the clamp but maybe not. What is the downside to MTB style shifters hanging under the flat part of the bar, that road bikes came with downtube shifters instead?


 I would assume that that came from racing. You can shift a DT shifter without widening your position on the bike. Just a guess, and I don't much care for the answer. I've always been comfortable with DT shifting, but since it's not an option, I would go with bar-end shifters on a road drop bar with Cane Creek or Tektro brake levers. I've never used bar-ends, but at this point, it's the only thing that makes sense to me. It'll come in under $100, and you shoud be able to use them with existing derailleurs (in friction mode) if you need/want to put off other upgrades.


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## Andy M-S (Feb 3, 2004)

Zaurusman said:


> Are downtube shifters independently adjustable? The guy I talked to online through Nashar yesterday said any of them can be used in friction mode ... can you set the front to friction and the rear to click? He only suggested that click wouldn't work on my MTB front derailleur, but would on my rear one. I'm leaning heavily towards downtube shifters now - are they okay for touring?


They're great for touring, and front DT shifters are _always_ friction, and work for double and triple drivetrains equally well.

When I went back to DT a couple of years ago, I started with indexing, but fairly quickly went to friction. Simple, never needs adjustment, and if things sound noisy? A tiny tap to the shifter resolves it. But after a while, you won't need to do that because you'll make clean shifts (the brain auto-adjusts; SIS, STI, Ergo--no such luck).


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## Zaurusman (Feb 2, 2006)

*Bar-end it is, then.*

Thanks for all the pointers, guys. I checked with Nashbar and, sure enough, no clamp. I could probably fit my shifters onto the bar, but it would look wrong, and be wrong. So, I'm looking at these:

Cool bar-end shifters? 

Anyone have 'em? I'm thinking those are the best long-term bet.


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

Zaurusman said:


> Thanks for all the pointers, guys. I checked with Nashbar and, sure enough, no clamp. I could probably fit my shifters onto the bar, but it would look wrong, and be wrong. So, I'm looking at these:
> 
> Cool bar-end shifters?
> 
> Anyone have 'em? I'm thinking those are the best long-term bet.


I haven't used them, but I know folks who have, and they swear by them. You won't go wrong with the "Silver" bar end shifters! And they're just so darn pretty...

- FBB


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## Zaurusman (Feb 2, 2006)

fbagatelleblack said:


> I haven't used them, but I know folks who have, and they swear by them. You won't go wrong with the "Silver" bar end shifters! And they're just so darn pretty...
> - FBB


Yeahhhhhh, that's what got me.  

Just two questions left, I think. It's a red bike, nice paint scheme on it (though obviously used -- adds character), very pretty IMHO. I'm mostly going to silver over matt black with it, though the crank has some black on it, the front ring gears are black, but the derailleurs and rear cassette and crank arms are silver. Brushed aluminum cages (grey). Bright silver aluminum seatpost. And now, bright silver barend shifters en route. Shiny aluminum brake levers. I'd love to go with a honey Brooks saddle and natural tape because it's oh so classy, but I don't think the brown would go well with the bright red - would kinda muddy the two and add a third color to confuse things if I'm picturing it correctly. Plus the red has black "string" in the paint, giving it an almost granite or igneous rock look. So I think I'm going with black tape and seat. Question is:

Go with a nice silver riser to compliment the seatpost, or play it safe with black?

And lastly, focused more on comfort than absolute die-hard aerodynamics, how much wider than my shoulders should the handlebars be?

Almost done with the planning stage.


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

Zaurusman said:


> Go with a nice silver riser to compliment the seatpost, or play it safe with black?


By "riser," do you mean stem? If so, I'd try to match your handlebars. In any case, polished, plain aluminum stem and bars are always classy looking.



Zaurusman said:


> And lastly, focused more on comfort than absolute die-hard aerodynamics, how much wider than my shoulders should the handlebars be?


I like a nice, wide bar. I do believe in any hard-and-fast rule about handlebar width vs. shoulder width, but I'd recommend going with a 46cm Rivendell Noodle, base on how happy these bars have made other people. I haven't ridden them yet, but I am seriously thinking about swapping my current bars for a set of these.

http://www.rivbike.com/html/parts_noodlebar.html

Yours,

FBB


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## Zaurusman (Feb 2, 2006)

That's nice! Yes, I'm referring to the stem. Stem, riser, yeah, what you said.


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

Zaurusman said:


> That's nice! Yes, I'm referring to the stem. Stem, riser, yeah, what you said.


"Riser" is prolly one o' dem der new fangled terms coined after Moser won his last Giro. I don't put up with that kind of slang, young feller!


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## Zaurusman (Feb 2, 2006)

fbagatelleblack said:


> "Riser" is prolly one o' dem der new fangled terms coined after Moser won his last Giro. I don't put up with that kind of slang, young feller!


Knowing me, I could have flat-out made it up trying to think up a term for the part to explain it to a bicycle shop employee 12 years ago!


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## Zaurusman (Feb 2, 2006)

And it's done! Parts on order. Blew the $100 budget all over the place, but it happens.  

Thanks to all for your advice! Here's what I've gone with:

Silver friction bar-end shifters (Rivendale)
Nitto Noodle bar (Rivendale)
Rivendale's campy-like aero brake levers

Inexpensive silver riser from Nashbar
Black cork tape from Nashbar

Might stop by the LBS to see if they have any gel strips to put under the cork before I wrap. Otherwise, I think I'm squared away for the bars swap, and soon a new impressively heavy old-school road bike it shall be. At ~$220, I hope I like it!


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## Gripped (Nov 27, 2002)

Zaurusman said:


> Might stop by the LBS to see if they have any gel strips to put under the cork before I wrap.


Some strips of old inner tube folded to a comfy thickness also work well.


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## Zaurusman (Feb 2, 2006)

I finished the bike changes this weekend and have put around 20 miles on it so far. It's a whole new bike! Still getting used to all the changes at once (back to friction shifters, drop bars, skinny high-psi tires), but it's been a good experience so far. Never had tires with 100 psi in them before, and it has so much better road feel and is much faster. Add the aero position of getting down into the drops and it's no wonder I hated a headwind so much with my flat bars! After 20 miles the friction barcon shifters are starting to become a less conscious effort. All in all, very happy with the choices I made and plan to ride it as my standard road bike for the remainder of the year, then pick up something else for group rides and centuries so I can set this aside for touring.

Anyway, thanks for all the advice, guys. Looks like the days of piling the miles on it are back! Wonder how long it'll take me to get back to the shape I was in when it was new...


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

Zaurusman said:


> I finished the bike changes this weekend


WE WANT PICS! WE WANT PICS!!

Glad it worked out!

- Forbes


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## Zaurusman (Feb 2, 2006)

fbagatelleblack said:


> WE WANT PICS! WE WANT PICS!!


Well, I'll have better pics this weekend maybe, but here are a couple to act as teasers of a sort.

A photo of it a year ago:











And this is me playing around with my new Nikon a couple weeks ago, experimenting. As you can see, I didn't have the brakes on yet (replaced those too).










There's still more to come for it, like a candybar bag and burrito on order from Rivendale (thanks for the introduction -- I like the way they think) and eventually a Brooks saddle and some other odds and ends as they trickle in over time.


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

Very nice! I'm looking forward to more pictures as it progresses. - FBB


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## Zaurusman (Feb 2, 2006)

*Mission Accomplished*

I'm done with this part of the build-up. I've tweaked a few things like bar wrap over the past couple weeks (Bontrager gel wrap is fantastic!), and have been riding it 10 miles a day getting back into the swing of things on lunch breaks at work pretty consistently -- only missed a couple days in the past two weeks to my work schedule/meetings and have found that taking longer lunches and staying a little later makes traffic on the way home (by car) a little more tolerable. Over the course of the rest of the year I plan to replace the crank and bottom bracket (latter has a little bit o' play to it), chain and cassette. They all saw a lot of abuse when I left it out on apartment balconies the better part of a decade. Then it's on to new touring wheels and maybe next year I'll get a dedicated road bike to only haul me around so I can finish the build into a touring rig. But that's for another day. At the moment, I'm really happy with what I've done so far!












^ I always liked the look of this thing. And that big ol' frame fits my long legs pretty well.










^ I switched to Nashbar cantilevers from my OEM Shimano's even though I could have just gotten new pads for the latter. I figured it was time for an upgrade, and am pleased with how easy it is to adjust pad alignment with the new ones.










^ A bad photo, but my Cane Creek levers. They work great with the cantilevers. Heard road levers didn't pull enough cable and that these did .. and they definitely do. Lock the rear tire in a heartbeat and set the front wheel skipping as it tries to lock too.










^ Couldn't resist a little tongue-in-cheek bling and put this carbon fiber chainstay guard from Nashbar on my probably 30+ lb steel cross bike with the big MTB pedals (which cured some foot pain I was getting).











^ And last but not least, while much has changed at the end of the day it's still my trusty ol' bike. If you ask me, an old Giant Nutra's plenty good enough for anyone!


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

*Really, really nice job!*

You did it up right, didn't you? Kudos, my cycling brother! Your bike represents everything good about the whole "restomod" movement. Practical, beautiful, I just cannot tell you how impressed I am.

Depending on the extent of slop in your current bottom bracket, you might want to consider installing an inexpensive sealed cartridge bb sooner rather than later. This is a very inexpensive part and it could add a lot to the durability and functionality of your bike. But that's just a little thing.

NICE WORK!

Forbes B-Black

PS: PLEASE submit photos of your bike to "Current Classics" section of Cyclofiend's website:

http://www.cyclofiend.com/index.html

He will like what you've done.


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## Zaurusman (Feb 2, 2006)

Wow, thanks for the high praise! I'll take my camera out on a ride this week to get some photos for his site in natural light. It's difficult to get decent photos in my apartment.

Can a bad bottom bracket damage the frame it's mounted into? I was planning on replacing the other parts along with it, doing all the work at once in late summer with all the components seating to each other. The play is noticeable when I grab the crank and push it towards and away from the frame; maybe a millimeter at the tip of it? If it can damage the frame I'll go pick up the tools I'll need and pull it out to see what width I need next weekend.


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

Zaurusman said:


> Can a bad bottom bracket damage the frame it's mounted into?


Probably not, but it's conceivable. More likely, it will self destruct at some point, leaving you stranded.

That said, it sounds likely that your current bottom bracket only needs to be overhauled and reassembled by someone who knows how to adjust a good, old-fashioned bottom bracket (unless you are the guy who posted the note on "Bicycle Restoration" about not being able to adjust it so it is not loose and does not bind). Pack it with some new grease, then find a buddy who knows how to adjust the older BB by holding the main threaded part still while tighening the lock ring.

Good luck!

- FBB


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## Steel_SSer (Jan 13, 2006)

I like it - very nice - congrats & thanks for sharing your info/photos.


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