# Trouble at Astana!



## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Uh, oh. Virtually the entire Astana team is trying to pull Vino back after that crash.
Man, this could be a turning point in the race. I hope this isn't going to be a problem. It would be a shame for the favorite to lose time because of a relatively minor crash.

CSC and Leaky Gas driving it.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

FondriestFan said:


> Uh, oh. Virtually the entire Astana team is trying to pull Vino back after that crash.
> Man, this could be a turning point in the race. I hope this isn't going to be a problem. It would be a shame for the favorite to lose time because of a relatively minor crash.
> 
> CSC and Leaky Gas driving it.



Kloden went down earlier too.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

bas said:


> Kloden went down earlier too.


Kloden and Vino are both back there losing time at the moment.....

http://live.cyclingnews.com/?id=latest


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## StormShadow (Feb 27, 2005)

I hope they lose a big chunk of time. Not because I dont like Astana but because it will force them to actually do something to get the time back. It will make future stages more interesting.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

Looks like Kloden is toast. Vino chasing by himself now, I wonder if he will get docked time for drafting the team car and all the pushes they are giving him?


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

StormShadow said:


> I hope they lose a big chunk of time. Not because I dont like Astana but because it will force them to actually do something to get the time back. It will make future stages more interesting.


This stage sounds like a great one (a complete suprise)...

I can't wait to watch it tonight!!!


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## StormShadow (Feb 27, 2005)

It sounds like the roads are tight and he may not have any other choice. 

I don't know. I am just reading updates and not watching tv.)


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## zeytin (May 15, 2004)

[email protected] he really worked hard to get back up. Cracked the whole team. That plus minute+ is really going to hurt him.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Kloden was in the main field, not chasing. Where are you guys getting that Kloden was chasing with Vino?


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## StormShadow (Feb 27, 2005)

FondriestFan said:


> Kloden was in the main field, not chasing. Where are you guys getting that Kloden was chasing with Vino?


Cycling News:

17:03 CEST 157.5km/25km to go
Crash! More bad luck for Andreas Klöden and Alexandre Vinokourov (Astana) - they've gone down in a turn!

17:06 CEST 
7 men are back with Vino and Klöden, with Kashechkin staying in the peloton... Astana is passing a Predictor-Lotto rider as they head back toward the bunch.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Wrong:

0km - Alexandre Vinokourov rolls across the line 1'20" behind!! That's a huge blow for him. Make no mistake, he will still be favourite for victory with the bookies, but he is now almost two minutes behind his team-mate Andreas Kloeden.

23km - A six-man Astana train has dropped back to help Vino back to the peloton. If you need help, there's no stronger team than Astana to get you moving.

27km - Vino has fallen!!! Antonio Colom stops to help him, but Vino is furious!!! The race favourite will have to time-trial his way back to the peloton.





StormShadow said:


> Cycling News:
> 
> 17:03 CEST 157.5km/25km to go
> Crash! More bad luck for Andreas Klöden and Alexandre Vinokourov (Astana) - they've gone down in a turn!
> ...


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

this reads like an exciting stage. man, i am pulling for vino in this tour. i would really like to see the attacker win this tour. 

cant wait to watch tonight.

on a side note, cancellara attacked near the end? that dude is awesome in yellow! usually we see the yellow tucked away somewhere safe. it is great seeing it up front fighting it out.


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## StormShadow (Feb 27, 2005)

Yeah I see that too.

When the action heats up the typed updates are all over the place from site to site.


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## SlowPokey (Jul 18, 2002)

Did cancellara keep the yellow? Or did he lose time due to running off the road on the descent?


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

weltyed said:


> this reads like an exciting stage. man, i am pulling for vino in this tour. i would really like to see the attacker win this tour.
> 
> cant wait to watch tonight.
> 
> on a side note, cancellara attacked near the end? that dude is awesome in yellow! usually we see the yellow tucked away somewhere safe. it is great seeing it up front fighting it out.



Cancellara is exciting, to be sure.

But I have to know, which is it? Was Kloeden with vino 1:20 down or not? Figures the day I don't watch we have this issue. I was following Cyclingnews' coverage and it's very hard to figure out. They make it sound like he was with Vino. I hope not, because he was (still is) my pick for the win.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Kloden managed to rejoin the main field even tho he did crash with Vino he was up faster and rolling.

Cancellera kept yellow

Zable too green


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## tom_o (May 6, 2004)

From cyclingnews:

General classification after stage 5

1 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Team CSC 28.56
*2 Andreas Klöden (Ger) Astana 0.33*
3 Filippo Pozzato (Ita) Liquigas 0.35
4 David Millar (GBr) Saunier Duval - Prodir 0.41
5 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 0.43
6 Vladimir Gusev (Rus) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 0.45
7 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Caisse d'Epargne 0.46
8 Mikel Astarloza Chaurreau (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 0.49
9 Thomas Dekker (Ned) Rabobank 0.51

Looks like Kloden wasn't back w/ Vino.

I kind of like that Vino now has his back to the wall. It should encourage some, ahem, aggressive riding


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Einstruzende said:


> Cancellara is exciting, to be sure.
> 
> But I have to know, which is it? Was Kloeden with vino 1:20 down or not? Figures the day I don't watch we have this issue. I was following Cyclingnews' coverage and it's very hard to figure out. They make it sound like he was with Vino. I hope not, because he was (still is) my pick for the win.


No, Kloden was not.

Eurosport called it a lot better today.

http://eurosport.yahoo.com/070711/2/tsr1.html


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

after this saturday and sunday stages we'll see a clearer picture who's going to fall and who is going to the top. the pain is coming. one more " easy ride " and we're going to to the Alps. can't wait!!


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## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

*Cancellara is amazing*



weltyed said:


> on a side note, cancellara attacked near the end? that dude is awesome in yellow! usually we see the yellow tucked away somewhere safe. it is great seeing it up front fighting it out.


I was able to watch the whole stage this AM for a change....and when Cancellara chased Popo down those hairpins, I thought, good lord, he might do it again! But, when they both misjudged a really sharp corner, that was it [though the way he stayed more or less upright was pretty good]. He certainly spices up the race while in the Maillot Jaune. Too bad he won't be able to hold on in the mountains.


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## pedalruns (Dec 18, 2002)

Wow... what a stage, I can't wait to watch this.... I was following thru CN and it sounded like complete chaos!! 

Looks like Kloden is riding very strong.... he did crash at one point (I think) and got back to the group when it was being shattered, too bad for Vino, very bad luck... I wonder if the team leadership will be in question now?? 

And.. Zabel in green.. I think that is cool.


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## LEW 3 (Jul 12, 2002)

*Legal to draft a team car*



MB1 said:


> Looks like Kloden is toast. Vino chasing by himself now, I wonder if he will get docked time for drafting the team car and all the pushes they are giving him?


Per Phil the other night. OK after a crash to get back in the peleton.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

I never would have thought that Vino would put himself behind the 8-ball this early in this way. Wow.


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## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

StormShadow said:


> I hope they lose a big chunk of time. Not because I dont like Astana but because it will force them to actually do something to get the time back. It will make future stages more interesting.


good point!!


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Pablo said:


> I never would have thought that Vino would put himself behind the 8-ball this early in this way. Wow.


Vino didn't "put himself" behind the 8-ball.


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## Gripped (Nov 27, 2002)

VeloNews is saying that Kloden might have broken his coccyx in his crash. Bad news for him. If it is really broken (or even severely bruised), it might make riding in the mountains unbearable.

Article here: http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/details/articles/12701.0.html

There's a pic of Kloden holding his tail bone in the article.


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## MaestroXC (Sep 15, 2005)

Wow, if so, same injury as 2003 for him. That would be a major bummer.

Of course, all these guys have super low bone density from the perspiration and non-impact activity. Drink your milk, everybody!


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

you are the pun master.



MaestroXC said:


> Wow, if so, same injury as 2003 for him. That would be a major bummer.


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

LEW 3 said:


> Per Phil the other night. OK after a crash to get back in the peleton.


Not exactly legal, but the jury tends to turn a blind eye providing it's not all the rider's team car all the time.


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## Nimitz (Jul 8, 2004)

kloden went down at somewhere around the 110k mark and vino went down at the 160k mark to different crashes, kloden had alot more time to get back to the peleton he did not drop back and help vino he stayed up there with one other rider..Kashechkin or something similar.

the rest of team astana dropped back to pull vino back and killed themsleves doing it...vino came back and lost 1:20 and in the last 10k was basically alone.

good stage and fabian made me jump out of my seat when he ran off on that sharp turn.

Chad


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

FondriestFan said:


> Vino didn't "put himself" behind the 8-ball.


"The Astana team leader ripped a gaping hole in the right side of his bib shorts. His elbow, hip and knee were all badly scraped and bloody. . . . "We spoke to Vino' on the radio, but we couldn't say much," explained Astana team manager Marc Biver. . . . The real trouble for Astana came with 25km to go when Vinokourov slammed onto the road, ripping apart his bib shorts. . . . "I didn't see the crash," said Toni Colom (Astana)." http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/details/articles/12701.0.html

I guess that I was under the imnpression that he just plain crashed, in part, apparently, due to his own mistake. Did someone else crash into him? If not, it seems like his mistake helped put him in this position.


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## Sprocket - Matt (Sep 13, 2005)

Great stage, I was on the edge of the seat for the last like 20 K.
Incredible finish, I was hoping for Big George the last 5k or so too.

Cool to see Zabel get in the Green again, we'll see if the German media eats him alive for it or begins to forgive him I suppose.

Cancellara, man...
CSC has his hopes and confidence up.. It's awesome to watch him right now, he knows that the alps will kill his time in the yellow jersey and he's willing to turn himself out in order to keep it for as long as he can... Coming down that mt. was beautiful... til he followed the race leader off the road for a bit. Amazing. 

Cool to see the KOM jersey go to a frenchmen I guess. Just before he'll lose it in the Alps. too bad, I like Chavanel. maybe he'll keep it for a couple more days. But I don't see it on his back at the end of the Tour.

Astana has to be triple guessing themselves for good measure now.
Vino will attack, and that's what we all expected and like about him, I guess we didn't expect him to be in a position where he HAD to attack so early in the tour.

And will we see Kloden at the start line tomorrow? broken assbone? Ouch.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Cancellara was locked on to Popo like a missile. He followed him right off the road. Fortunately, they didn't hit that wall.

Nice to see Zabel in green. It's pretty clear right now that the race is wide open. No patron, no favorites. Everyone thinks they have a shot. That's great for us cycling fans.


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## harlond (May 30, 2005)

Eurosports is reporting that Kloeden has a broken coccyx and may not start tomorrow. Now that's trouble for Astana.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

harlond said:


> Eurosports is reporting that Kloeden has a broken coccyx and may not start tomorrow. Now that's trouble for Astana.


Please don't be true! He's my pick and I think has the form to pull it off.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

man, Vino's both knees are bleeding pretty bad. if Kloeden and Vino are out, then it's Levi vs. Valverde. heck may be Rasmussen might sneak in and attack on the mountains and i doubt anyone could follow him. he does need about +3 minutes before stage 19th if he wants to wear yellow rather than strawberry jersey come Paris.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

z ken said:


> man, Vino's both knees are bleeding pretty bad. if Kloeden and Vino are out, then it's Levi vs. Valverde. heck may be Rasmussen might sneak in and attack on the mountains and i doubt anyone could follow him. he does need about +3 minutes before stage 19th if he wants to wear yellow rather than strawberry jersey come Paris.


Forget Levi, you're going to have to worry about Cadel Evans and Vladimir Karpets. Both can climb and TT really well.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Pablo said:


> I guess that I was under the imnpression that he just plain crashed, in part, apparently, due to his own mistake. Did someone else crash into him? If not, it seems like his mistake helped put him in this position.


Sounds like his chain skipped and he crashed.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

FondriestFan said:


> Cancellara was locked on to Popo like a missile. He followed him right off the road. Fortunately, they didn't hit that wall.


Lesson for any wheeled speed activity: key off the road, not the rider in front of you! Easy to say, a bit harder to do.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

Evans and karpets are great talent but their supporting casts aren't as strong as team America ( disco )


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

z ken said:


> Evans and karpets are great talent but their supporting casts aren't as strong as team America ( disco )


You're smoking weed. Caisse D'Pargne has Karpets, Pererio, and Valverde. Among others.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

i mean Evans. by the way i did pick Valverde, Vino and levi as top-3.


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## allons-y (Nov 15, 2006)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Sounds like his chain skipped and he crashed.


somewhere someone was saying he snapped his chain. i didnt see live coverage, but didnt he take someone elses bike after the crash (a teammate stopped immeadiatly or also went down)???

@zken

karpets has all the supporting cast in the world....however he isnt the gc guy. he has to be 3rd in line, if not 4th to valv, oscar, and guteriez. solid team tho.

evans has mario aerts (solid), and dario cioni (very solid) in the mtns. plus one the flats, he has guys like horner, freddy, etc to look after him earlier on. don't count him out. not the greatest support squad, but not too shabby.

disco...funny you call them team america, majority of the tour squad (7/9) are not americans, and they are one of the most international teams in the peleton. if we wanna get technical, team america = the usa national team, or if you want a team that exists on a day to day basis, the usa developmental team....id take predictor over usa developmental any day. 

there is no "team america" nor is there a team belgium or team france. the tour was stopped racing as national squads a number of years ago


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## Cervelo-er (Apr 10, 2004)

Vino's arm looked like someone took a belt sander to it...whatever happened, I don't envy the man...the bruise (hematoma for Ligget) isn't going to make a for a fun night either.

Question: Is it still blood doping if the rider crashes and actually needs to top off the fluids?


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

yes riders always go with who's willing to pay more money. if i was a pro i'll ride for my country's team (s ). since there's only one U.S pro team, it'll make my decision easy but will Y.B want me?? since i can only master 22 MPH/20miles, i guess i can only be the " 10th " best rider for team disco.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

Einstruzende said:


> Forget Levi, you're going to have to worry about Cadel Evans and Vladimir Karpets. Both can climb and TT really well.


If Vino and Kloden are out of contention due to injuries, there are a lot of riders of similar chance for the podium/win - in addition to Valverde, Landis, Karpets and Evans you have Menchov, Kachechkin, Sastre, etc.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

perhap we should give Vino and kloeden some respect. after the nasty spills they didn't just fall and stay there. they actually TRY and make a comeback on their own while other teams turn their back on them. plus they're both still in contention. give them sometime and we'll find out if they''ll keep on fighting or fold. i think as long as Vino is -4 minutes before stage14th, he has a shot as the 3rd week are really brutal. i'm Levi and team disco fan but the tour won't be the same without Vino and Kloeden.


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## allons-y (Nov 15, 2006)

double post


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## allons-y (Nov 15, 2006)

55x11 said:


> If Vino and Kloden are out of contention due to injuries, there are a lot of riders of similar chance for the podium/win - in addition to Valverde, Landis, Karpets and Evans you have Menchov, Kachechkin, Sastre, etc.


um, not sure if you got the memo, but landis is decidely not a contender this year (seeing as he isn't in the race). 

dont count out frank schleck, oscar pererio (sp?), levi, michael rogers, and even long shots like mayo, moreau, or shumacher sneaking onto the podium (rather unlikely tho on those last 3)


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## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

*ouch*


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

allons-y said:


> um, not sure if you got the memo, but landis is decidely not a contender this year (seeing as he isn't in the race).
> 
> dont count out frank schleck, oscar pererio (sp?), levi, michael rogers, and even long shots like mayo, moreau, or shumacher sneaking onto the podium (rather unlikely tho on those last 3)


oops, obviously meant to say Levi, not Landis, doh! 

pereiro is overrated. His top finishes last two years were a result of long breakaways.
others have a reasonable shot... Kloden's and Vino's injury may have equalized the field even more.


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## zeytin (May 15, 2004)

I keep seeing mention of Vino and Kloden crashing together they didn't. In addition when Kloden went down only one rider was sent to bring him back to the front. When Vino went down some time later all but Kloeden and one other were sent back to pull him (and push him apparently) back into the race.


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## Cyclo-phile (Sep 22, 2005)

This sounds a lot like a crash I had a few weeks ago. The chain dropped off the small ring while I was standing and pedaling. My weight came down really hard on the handlebars, which then turned sharply and threw me on the pavement. I had road rash on my knee, hip, and elbow. That scenario is consistent with Vino's injuries and descriptions, he just did it going a lot faster.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

MichauxYeti said:


> This sounds a lot like a crash I had a few weeks ago. The chain dropped off the small ring while I was standing and pedaling. My weight came down really hard on the handlebars, which then turned sharply and threw me on the pavement. I had road rash on my knee, hip, and elbow. That scenario is consistent with Vino's injuries and descriptions, he just did it going a lot faster.


Anytime the resistance you're anticipating suddenly disappears under high power you're going to be lucky to save it. Gears can skip, chains snap, or even a hub can let go. IIRC, the latter is what caused Hamilton's crash in the Giro a couple of years ago. Just flat out bad luck for Vino.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

zeytin said:


> I keep seeing mention of Vino and Kloeden crashing together they didn't. In addition when Kloeden went down only one rider was sent to bring him back to the front. When Vino went down some time later all but Kloeden and one other were sent back to pull him (and push him apparently) back into the race.


I think it's because the live report on cyclingnews said Kloden crashed with Vino. I was following the text on CN until a little after that point, but then stopped so I could watch the finale on tape at home. I kept watching after the crash trying to figure out why I couldn't recognize Kloden in the Astana train trying to assist Vino until it finally became obvious that CN must have made a mistake.


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## Kestreljr (Jan 10, 2007)

z ken said:


> yes riders always go with who's willing to pay more money. if i was a pro i'll ride for my country's team (s ). since there's only one U.S pro team, it'll make my decision easy but will Y.B want me?? since i can only master 22 MPH/20miles, i guess i can only be the " 10th " best rider for team disco.


Why do you consider Disco an American Team- because Tailwind is American owned?


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## snowman3 (Jul 20, 2002)

*Did Vino finish the stage?*

I breezed over the CN coverage. All I saw was:

13:13 CEST 
Alexander Vinokourov of Astana spent five hours in the hospital yesterday evening and despite his rather severe injuries to his knees he has decided to start today. Hopefully he can make it to the finish. It'd be a pity to have to abandon the Tour after a silly crash, especially when you are the hot-on favourite.


How did he look today? still in the race?


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Man, that sign Vino just made didn't look good. He looks absolutely miserable.


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