# Colnago CX-1



## Firefly55

So what are the thoughts on the new CX-1 due out in November?


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## Firefly55

http://www.colnago.com/revolution/index-eng.html


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## iyeoh

Hopefully its not another Taiwanese bike. Otherwise, you might as well buy a high end Giant, which is still half the price and is a higher quality frame.


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## fabsroman

My money would be on this being another Taiwanese bike that is going to replace the CLX and the Cristallo. The Cristallo has already been discontinued, and I am going to bet that the CLX will be discontinued this year too. All this CX-1 does is change the top tube on the CLX to a straight top tube and change the rear triangle a little. From what I have read, the reason why the Cristallo was discontinued before the end of the year was because it was difficult for Colnago to make monocoque frames in Italy. So, I doubt they will be making the monocoque CX-1 in Italy. Plus, it only comes in three paint schemes, none of which really look that good. So, I am going out on a limb and saying that the CX-1 will be made in Taiwan.


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## Bianchi67

Looks like a cross between the Cristallo and CLX.

Note that it has an integrated headset.


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## fabsroman

Yep, I noticed that it has an integrated headset. They make it seem as though it is something proprietary to Colnago, but I wonder if that is true. Seems like Colnago is changing up its views on a lot of things (e.g., Taiwanese made bikes, integrated headsets, lots of paint schemes, intricate paint schemes). Now, they are going to have to change up their view on prices. I can buy an Arte frame on ebay for $600 which is extremely similar to a Dream frame, but the Dream frame costs between $2,000 and $2,500, which is close to 4 times more than the Arte.


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## bertoni

*colnago cx-1*

See link below for an article in Cycling Weekly;

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/tech/NEW_COLNAGO_CX1_RACE_FRAME_article_256191.html

According to the article, layup of the monocoque will be done in Taiwan,with final assembly of the frames done in Italy. The rear triangle is a more traditional lugged frame configuration like the C50 or Extreme Power, while the front triangle seems like the evolution of the Cristallo or CLX. The headset is referred to in the Colnago website as "semi-integrated", implying that it is easier to disassemble than a fully integrated type.

It will be interesting to see a full road test, as well as final pricing. Some of us will probably see this as inevitable in the face of current trends and the related costs of fabrication. In the meantime I will continue to ride the wheels off my C40 until there is more in-depth information available about this model.


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## fabsroman

Gotta say I told you so on it being made in Taiwan. The fact that they want 2,500 pounds, or $5,000, for this Taiwanese made frame is utterly amazing. You can rest assured that I will not be buying one.


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## bertoni

*colnago cx-1*

I have to admit that I am not initially impressed with this offering. It will be interesting to see if it is embraced by the pro teams. For all of those who have complained about the weight of the C50; this one might be the answer to that concern.


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## Monty Dog

Plenty of people pay the same money for a Chinese-built Cervelo or Scott


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## fabsroman

Yes, but the Chinese built Cervelo and Scott do not have 75 years of history of being built in Italy. I compare it to Ferraris being built in Japan. For some reason, a Ferrari made in Japan just wouldn't feel like the same car that it currently is. Honestly, I put a ding in my Arte and could almost care less. Then, I had the chain come off my Cristallo and chip a bit of clear coat off and I almost cried right there on the side of the road. I have since repaired it, and am thinking about getting the spot professionally repaired later, but thought better of it and will wait until I get more chips in the frame.


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## fabsroman

I would seriously doubt that the monocoque CX-1 frame will be an answer to the C50's weight. I mean it will probably be lighter than the C50, but I think my Cristallo is too. Somehow, I haven't ridden a C50 yet so I cannot compare its comfort to that of my Cristallo (I'm trying to resolve that problem this winter), but from what I have read the C50 is much more comfortable than my Cristallo and it probably will be the same when the C50 is compared to the CX-1.


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## bertoni

*colnago cx-1*

With a claimed weight of 1010 g, that would be a significant weight savings over a C50 or Extreme Power. At least they plan to do final assembly and quality control in Italy. It would have been a lot cheaper to let Giant build the entire frame in Taiwan. I am willing to give Colnago the benefit of the doubt on this one, at least until someone has actually rode it.


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## fabsroman

At $5,000, I think I will doubt it until I hear otherwise from people. For that kind of money, I don't give anybody the benefit of the doubt. I'll assume that 1,010 grams is just for the frame, and doesn't include the fork, which is a pretty light frame. My Cristallo frame weighed 1,300 grams and the fork was just under 500 grams.


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## BikeNerd2453

fabsroman said:


> Yes, but the Chinese built Cervelo and Scott do not have 75 years of history of being built in Italy. I compare it to Ferraris being built in Japan. For some reason, a Ferrari made in Japan just wouldn't feel like the same car that it currently is. Honestly, I put a ding in my Arte and could almost care less. Then, I had the chain come off my Cristallo and chip a bit of clear coat off and I almost cried right there on the side of the road. I have since repaired it, and am thinking about getting the spot professionally repaired later, but thought better of it and will wait until I get more chips in the frame.


What about Pinarellos?
Prince is $5,000...


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## fabsroman

Are Pinarellos built in Taiwan? I haven't really looked into them yet since I only have Colnagos and a Bianchi. Don't get me wrong, I don't think there is anything wrong with Taiwanese frames. In fact, I own two Arte's and race on them. However, if these companies are going to head to Taiwan for the huge savings on building bikes, I completely expect to receive a part of the savings if I will be throwing my love and the history of the brand away. The reason I race on the Artes is because I can break that frame in half, throw it in a dumpster, and not even shed a tear.


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## BikeNerd2453

fabsroman said:


> Are Pinarellos built in Taiwan? I haven't really looked into them yet since I only have Colnagos and a Bianchi. Don't get me wrong, I don't think there is anything wrong with Taiwanese frames. In fact, I own two Arte's and race on them. However, if these companies are going to head to Taiwan for the huge savings on building bikes, I completely expect to receive a part of the savings if I will be throwing my love and the history of the brand away. The reason I race on the Artes is because I can break that frame in half, throw it in a dumpster, and not even shed a tear.


$5,000 Prince is made in China, or at least Taiwan. Cervelos are made in China.
Not saying it's the same thing as a bike made in Italy, just saying that these companies do need to branch out, especially with the Dollar-Euro exchange rate. Expect pricing on everything to go up 15-20% though, carbon, rubber, components, etc, for 2009. So that's part of the pricing too.


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## Richieg

I did see on a British cycling web site the CX1 will be made in Asia with some "assembly" done in Italy. The price is 2500 pounds. Not sure what the price will be in America. The Asian CLX isn't selling all that great, so makes you wonder how this frame can sell for this kind of money?


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## fabsroman

Time will tell, but I can tell you that I have absolutely no interest in that frame for $5,000. I'll buy a top of the line Bianchi before I spend $5,000 on the CX-1. Make that 2 new Bianchis for that kind of money.


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## corky

I think we should all getused to the idea of all Carbon Fibre bikes being made at least 'laid up' in China/Taiwan/Indonesia etc.

Economically it makes sense and as more and more manufacturers go down that road the rest will follow, they can't afford not to. There will be some exceptions but they will be the v.small makers who will charge a large premium for Us/Euro construction.

just my tuppance halfpenny.....


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## fabsroman

I have two of the Artes that were made in Taiwan, but I paid around $600 for the aluminum frames, not $5,000. AT $5,000, what portion of the manufacturing savings is being passed along to the consumer. Same thing goes for Pinarello. These bike companies are getting almost as bad as the oil companies, but at least there is still a lot of competition among the bike companies. If I don't want to pay $5,000 for a Taiwanese built Colnago, I can buy a Giant or other similar bike instead.


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## corky

why should any manufacturing savings be passed on to the consumer?

Business is Business (especially global)


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## Richieg

Colnago has their "loyal following" that demands "100% made in Italy" If they start building all their frames in Asia, the following might as well buy a Giant or any other Asian frame for much less. I must admit the carbon built by ATR in Italy is quite stunning. My friend has a new Ferrari 599 with ATR carbon bits on the interior. It's like none other that I've seen. It's fantastic looking stuff.


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## Sablotny

*I concur*

with the general sentiment of the thread. Call me vain, or just stupid, but I paid the extra dough for an Italian Colnago. Its what I wanted. My Dream HX was spec'd to come with a Taiwanese CLX fork, so I paid extra to get an Italian Star fork as well. For all I know, my frame & fork may have come from Taiwan and been spray painted with the words "Made in Italy." Quality-wise, I bet there's no difference between the two origins. But for me, Colnagos are about Italy. Scotts, Cervelos and the like are more about cutting edge technical prowess (the C50 was not going to win any weight weenie wars) and maybe that's what Ernesto is after with the CX-1. As drool-worthy as the CX-1 appears to be, I wouldn't pay that kind of money for a Taiwanese Colnago. Pinarellos have lost their magic for me as well. Next time I go looking for a frame that's hand crafted by artisans, I'll be shopping in my own neighborhood: Sycip, Soulcraft, Kimo Tanaka...


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## JLane

*Will buyers accept it?*

Colnago is trying to have it both ways - 

The cost effective all-Taiwan CLX has not set the world on fire (remember Competitive Cyclist buying up all the leftover 07's from Veltec and blowing them out this past spring)

The all-Italian frames are getting dreadfully expensive.

So, build all the pieces in Taiwan; glue the chain and seatstays into the sockets and paint them in Italy (This is conjecture on my part) and hope enough folks don't care. 

It's obvious what this group thinks (which I agree with as well) - the question is how will the masses vote with their $?

We'll see.


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## fabsroman

That is a pretty good question. I still see a lot of guys riding Pinarellos, so they must not mind the fact that they are built in Asia. However, I also tend to think that the guys riding Pinarellos are somewhat different than the Colnago crowd. Almost all of the guys I have seen on Pinarellos are the racers types and the younger people. Of course, that is just what I have seen in my limited area.

As far as the savings being passed along to the consumer, that was what Colnago did with the CLX and the Arte. The CLX was pretty much a Cristallo for $1,000 less, and the Arte is exactly like a Dream HX for over a $1,000 less. The only reason I bought 2 Artes is because they each cost me $600 instead of $2,000 a piece like the Dream HX, and because I know I'll be racing them and probably destroying them in the process.


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## Sablotny

*Maybe we can look to Pinarello*

Another brand in the same niche. I lusted for one after seeing Ullrich race his. I dug the carbon stays before they were a pedestrian marketing requirement for nearly every frame. Magnesium tubing- zowie. And some cool paint. But now that they're coming out of Asia, the mystique is busted for me. Wonder where their sales are.


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## bertoni

I understand the allure that the made in Italy Colnago's create; I own one of them myself. But this frame isn't even out on the market yet; I don't understand how you decide the relative worth of something before anyone has even had a chance to ride it. If this bike can compete with Pinarello and other frames made in Asia, I think it could be very successful. I also think Colnago will continue to make the more "traditional" models in Italy for the purists that can afford to buy them.


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## Sablotny

*Not dissin' the frame at all*

I think the CX-1 will be very cool. My problem is that this seems to be a big change in direction for Colnago, producing their highest end racing bike in Asia (BTW, gluing up components in Italy doesn't count for me). If you can get a Cervelo R3 or Scott Addict for $3,000 or less, I can't see the reason for an Asian Colnago at $5K.

But that's just me.


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## bertoni

I guess time and the market will tell how it will compete with some of the other makes. I am not so sure there will be much price difference between it and Cervelo, Scott, or even comparable Giant, Specialized or Trek models. I have looked at Cervelo's lately and they have been in the 4 to 5k range as well, depending on buildout. 

According to another article, this project is being spearheaded by Ernesto's son-in-law, who is concerned about the company's image being too conservative for the younger riders. There is always the risk of losing who and what you are when a new direction is being set. It will be very interesting to see where they go from here.


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## corky

I think a lot hangs on wether there is much take-up in the peloton, maybe Colnago sponsored teams will be 'forced' to adopt it, if so I can see it being more successful than the CLX or Cristallo. Everyone wants to be a 'Pro' eh?


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## Bianchi67

Landbouwkrediet pro team races on the CLX now.


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## fabsroman

How many of the younger riders can afford a $5,000 frame? We are talking about $5,000 for the frame, and not an entire bike, when we are talking about the CX-1, correct? If it is $5,000 for the entire bike, then I might be able to swallow it for a Taiwan made frame.

My hang up is that the CX-1, a Taiwanese built frame that is built for less cost than an Italian frame, costs just as much, if not more, than the top of the line Italian built Colnago frame.

Again, it all comes down to history for me. Why not have the Tour de France in Taiwan too. Just find a couple good mountain ranges in Asia, and it is the same race isn't it? Why does it matter where in the world the roads are located that the race is run on? As long as the race is just as hard in Taiwan as it is in France, it will be exactly the same thing. The other example, Ferraris being made anywhere else other than Italy, has already been used above.


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## corky

true..... but they are hardly Rabbobank or Milram or even Navigares(sp?) are they?


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## optimieron

I don't think that the premium teams will ever ride this new bike - there are the C50s and Extreme-C and Extreme Powers for that. 

Just as a side note - I rode a premium Cervelo last year as a loaner from my LBS while I waited from my Extreme-C. It was more expensive than my Colnago and if indeed it was fabricated in Asian, then why in the hell would I ride it. True it had a different ride - not to my liking - but why would I buy a product made from a region of the world where the cost of labour (which makes up a fair amount of the price of a carbon bike) is a much smaller proportion of the cost of the total bike for the manufacturer? True, Cervelo might be bleeding edge in terms of their technology ideals but I still have a problem with this. 

Michael


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## bwhite_4

optimieron said:


> I don't think that the premium teams will ever ride this new bike - there are the C50s and Extreme-C and Extreme Powers for that.


A Rabobank rider is riding the CX-1 over the extreme power. I wonder if any others on the team will switch.

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/articl...ago-cx-1-17217


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## Sablotny

I think the teams would ride any bike that was just as stiff and weighed almost a pound less. Sure.


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## Tyrellcrimson

I really think you guys are overestimating the CX-1's US price point. Remember the Brits are ALWAYS overcharged for EVERYTHING. No really, Honda Civics cost almost $40K USD over there, and I'm not going to start talking about the british cost for petrol. In the end, the CX-1 will be priced to fight against the F4:13 and the ubiquitous Soloists and R3s'. It will be a little bit pricier than the CLX, making it's US price about $3,000. At this price, Colnagos' history, stable geometry, and relative uniqueness (at least compared to the Cerveloes') just might be their trump card. Now whether the CX-1 can stand up to the almighty stiffness of my - similarly priced - Ridley Noah, is another question altogether. (The Noah is a GREAT bike for us Clydesdales,)


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## Kenacycle

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2008/probikes/?id=grischa_niermann_june08


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## bertoni

This bike will probably find more acceptance within the pro teams than the public at large. If its lighter, stiffer, and faster, pro riders will use it. In fact, it seems to have been aimed at the racing market specifically, so why wouldn't they ride it? Again, nobody seems to have problems with Asian made Cervelo's, Pinarello's, etc. As far as those who will never ride an "import" Colnago, I am sure they will continue to make the traditional Colnago frames in Italy as long as there is a market for them. This latest move is a win-win for everybody.


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## KennyG

By the way, are any pros riding c50s this year? Isn't the c50 considered the "pinnacle" race bike? Every pro bike that I see on TV has the leaf shaped chain stays of the EP and EC - no c50s. Are they all riding EPs now - or ECs? I can't imagine that all those non-sprinters would ride the EP unless they are being told to by their sponsors. Just curious.


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## fabsroman

Do you think any of the pros are riding their bike of choice? They all ride what their sponsors tell them to ride, even if they personally think it might be a POS. Colnago is probably pushing the Extreme C and EP because it pushed the C50 a couple of years ago. Why not have the pro teams ride the newest frame they put out, since almost everybody now knows about the C50, and most people that wanted one already have one, with the exception of me.

Honestly, I don't rely too much on what the pros ride, because I am nowhere near a pro myself, and never intend on putting that much time in the saddle and injecting that many drugs to see if I can be. I'll take the consumers' reviews over those of the pros. Do you think any of them would bad mouth a sponsor that is paying their salary? I doubt it. Even if a sprinter thought a frame was a wet noodle, do you think he would say it was?


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## eff_dee

I wonder if Cervelo fans will claim that Mr. Colnago copied the squoval tube profile of the R3, for his new CX-1....? They look similar.


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## Cyclingisalive

The weight of the CX-1 frame is 940 grams for a 52s - price point will be in $4.300 - 4.500 range - I got the info during a presentation of the CX-1 at my local Colnago shop. And the Italian production will still be maintained - The C50 Family, Extreme C, Extreme Power, Master X Light, Dream HX - who of the Italian manufactures can present such an extensive line made in Italy?


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## Richieg

Cycling Weekly in England has the frame being made in Tawian and then "finished", etc. in Italy.


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## De Rosa UD

Cyclingisalive said:


> The weight of the CX-1 frame is 940 grams for a 52s - price point will be in $4.300 - 4.500 range - I got the info during a presentation of the CX-1 at my local Colnago shop. And the Italian production will still be maintained - The C50 Family, Extreme C, Extreme Power, Master X Light, Dream HX - who of the Italian manufactures can present such an extensive line made in Italy?


Casati, Tommasini, Somec...

Check out WR Compositi for their frame too! Cheaper and lighter than a Colnago, geometry made to measure available too.


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## ico

De Rosa UD said:


> Casati, Tommasini, Somec...
> 
> Check out WR Compositi for their frame too! Cheaper and lighter than a Colnago, geometry made to measure available too.


You can get C50,EC,EP in custom geometry from colnago, it's "only" 200 Euros more on regular price. I have both C50 and ext-C in custom tailored size.


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## De Rosa UD

Sure, I know. But than the waiting time is even longer than now. so you should bring quite a "bit" time with you when you plan to buy a special made Colnago.


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## Cyclingisalive

weight CX-1 for a 52s frame is 940 grams. Price for frame set, fork and head set: $3.500!
The CX-1 looks F....antastic....a must have. I rode a demo at my IBD...have ordered one in white!


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## fabsroman

$3,500 I can live with. When are those frames going to be available, and what are the paint options?


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## Cyclingisalive

I think 2 color options and mid November you will start seing the first CX-1 - that is my impression.....


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## Richieg

Will they be making a unpainted, all carbon model? Sometimes the colors they show at first are not the ones actually put into production.


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## De Rosa UD

This will be determined at Eurobike in about 3 weeks.


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## fabsroman

They do have a bare carbon one with red accents on their website. It is the third option. Personally, I cannot stand the white ones, but the bare carbon with red accents doesn't really do much for me either.


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## Kenacycle

Bellatisport in Switzerland is taking preorders on the CX1.. 
And they are selling it $1k less than retail for $3550. My friend just ordered one and will be available in October or November.

This frame takes a 31.6mm seatpost.


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## Cyclingisalive

So....your friend made the "right decision'!! A grey market dealer no warranty or support...and retail in the US is $3.500!!!! With full support on warranty! Way to go supporting your local bike shop! and the Seat Post is a 31.6.....is shipping included or any duty?


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## Kenacycle

Shipping is about CAD$100 insured. There is no duty on bicycle related items coming into Canada. Only 5% GST plus $5 Canadapost handling fee.

Bellatisport is an authorized dealer for Colnago. And communication with Andrea has been prompt and clear.


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## fabsroman

I bought my Cristallo from Bellatisport, which is essentially Andrea Bellati, and he was great. The frame has been great too and I saved $1,100+ on it. It was $3,600 before shipping in the US and $2,500 with shipping from Bellatisport. I'm getting ready to buy a C50 and will be ordering it from the same place.

As far as Bellatisport being a gray market dealer, I highly doubt it. He sells the full line in every color available. Here in the US, it is almost impossible to find a C50 in ST01, which is what I really want. Yeah, I can get the EP in ST01, but that isn't what I want.

When I took my Cristallo into the LBS to buy a headset from them and have them install it, I got the 30 minute lecture about buying it overseas and only getting a 1 year warranty. Guess what, the frame has already been discontinued, and if it were to break under some warranty issue, there would still be a cause of action to recover my money, and even if I couldn't recover my money, I would still be ahead $1,100 that I could use to buy a frame from a different manufacturer if Colnago gave me a hard time about warranty coverage.

Buy a couple of frames from US dealers and you could have gotten another frame for free from Maestro or Bellatisport.


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## Campag75

I find it interesting that there are quite a few posts about a frame that no one seems to know anything about. None of you who replied to the first question regarding the Colnago CX-1 knows any facts about the CX-1 nor company by which it is made. The CX-1 has nothing to do with either the Cristallo nor the CLX, other than it being a Colnago. The frame is made in Taiwan, by employees that were hand chosen by Mr. Colnago and supervised by Italian Colnago employees. It is a monocoque front triangle joined to a lugged rear, and is the lightest frame ever produced by Colnago. It will retail for $3500. An Italian frame would cost far more, and Colnago is trying to provide a cost-effective, light racing machine.
Colnagos are ridden by more Pro Tour teams than any other bike manufacturer. They are some of the best bikes in the world with more victories than any other bike brand. The CX-1 has already been race tested, replacing the Extreme C for several riders.
I suggest that before you argue a topic, you learn facts. I also suggest you ride a Colnago - you might change your tune.


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## fabsroman

I think you need to change your tune and do a little more investigating of your own. I currently have 4 Colnagos, a Cristallo, 2 Artes, and an Oval Krono.

Both the Cristallo (made in Italy) and the CLX (made in Taiwan) are monocoque frames, both have been discountinued, and now the CX-1 has appeared on the scene as Colnago's only monocoque frame. Exactly how are they not related? Yes, they aren't the same frame, but they are in the same family. By the way, the CX-1 will be made by the same hand picked Taiwanese employees that made the CLX. Also, isn't the CLX and the CX-1 kind of similar in name. Change the L to a 1, which isn't too far of a stretch, and move it to the end and add a dash. Viola, almost the same names.

Speaking of families of bikes, I associate the C50 with the Extreme C and the Extreme Power. The C50 came first and it is a lugged frame and the Extremes, also lugged frames, came after it. I'm willing to bet that the Extremes were developed off of the C50 platform and geometry.

As far as the Italian frame costing far more, that isn't true. I can get an Italian made Colnago for just a $100 more than the CX-1.


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## bertoni

I think Campag is trying to say that the the CX-1 would be more expensive if made entirely in Italy, not that all frames made in Italy will cost more than those made elsewhere. If you can't get past the fact that Colnago is making bikes overseas then don't buy them. Cervelo just brought out the new S3 frame that will sell for exactly the same as the CX-1 frame, so lets just all chill a little bit until someone actually rides one before saying that they are horribly overpriced and undeserving of the marque.


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## fabsroman

I think that a lot of the Colnago lineup is overpriced, especially in the US. $4,800 for a C50, Extreme C, or Extreme Power is nuts. So, I felt the same way for a CX-1 at $5,000. However, as noted above, it is ONLY $3,500 now, which I am okay with.

As far as being okay with a Taiwanese frame, I think I said I own 2 Arte frames, which were both made in Taiwan. However, they are almost the exact same frame as the Dream HX and they cost me $650 and $600 new on ebay instead of the $2,500 price tag for a Dream HX in the states or $1,800 for a Dream HX in Europe. So, seeing a carbon fiber made in Taiwan frame at the same price point as the lugged carbon fiber frames made in Italy kind of makes me wonder. However, I guess Colnago should charge whatever the market is willing to bear even if it means more profit for Colnago. I know I would do the same thing if I were in their shoes.


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## widespreadpanic

Just curious..... What is the price of a Colnago in Italy?
Is it any different (less or more) than other countries?

WP


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## fabsroman

If you order over the internet, you can find some pretty good deals from European retailers. Same goes for Campy. Somehow, when things make it to the US, they become extremely expensive. I told my cousin who is living in Milan that a Colnago C50 here costs $4,800 and he couldn't believe it. However, I don't know exactly what one would cost in Italy. Maybe I'll ask my cousin to get me a price for one.


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## bertoni

If you think that Colnago's are overpriced, then you probably won't be very eager to pay for 8 to 10k for any of its competitors like Specialized, Giant, Cervelo, Trek, Pinarello, etc. For the record, I bought my Colnago used because I would rather have a used Colnago than almost anything else new or used. With two kids in college bleeding me dry, I can't afford to lay down that kind of money for a new Colnago or anything else in that price range. But that doesn't mean they are overpriced in the context of rest of the marketplace.


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## Cyclingisalive

When mentioning the price difference Europe - USA, have you considered the Euro-Dollar situation, shipping cost (it does cost more to ship from Cambiago to the US than Milan-Rome) and the duty rates that US goverment imposes. Lets compare apples to apples. Finally - the cost of labor is also quite different from Italy to Asia - so an Italian made Dream HX will naturally be more expensive than the Arte made in Asia. Do you follow?


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## fabsroman

Bertoni,

I am talking about just a frame here, not an entire bike. What Giant, Specialized, Cervelo, Trek or Pinarello frames cost $8,000 to $10,000, and I'm talking about US dollars here? If those bike frames cost that much, then I think they are way overpriced.


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## fabsroman

I follow completely. However, $1,200 more for a frame bought in the US versus the same frame in the Europe. Duty on a frame is 5%, so on $3,400 that would be $170. Shipping from Europe to the US is $100. So, where does the other $930 come from? Do you follow?

I also fully understand that labor in Asia is cheaper than labor in Italy, and that has been my point. Why does the CX-1 costs as much as the C50, Extreme C, and Extreme Power when the former is made in Taiwan and the others are made in Italy, especially since it isn't much different than the Cristallo, which cost $2,400 if bought in Europe, which is $1,000 less than the lugged frames built in Italy.


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## bertoni

I think it can safely be said that any of the "superbikes" that compete directly with colnagos are pricing out around 7 to 10 k built up with c record or sram gruppos. The frames are probably 3000 to 5000 as well. I should have been more specific and said complete bikes, not frames. However, the point I am trying to make is the same, new bike prices, whether frame only or complete do not vary wildly for the same quality levels between brands that much. As I have said before, I am not able or willing at this time to lay down seven or eight grand on anybody's bike right now, but I would rather spend that kind of money on a Colnago than a Specialized Tarmac or Trek Madone, both of which are in the same ballpark pricewise.


----------



## fabsroman

Agreed. The top of the line frames are all around the $4,000 to $5,000 range, with a couple of exceptions. 2 years ago when I was doing a ton of research to figure out what I was going to buy, because the C50 was out of my price range at that time, I was debating between the Orbea Orca at $2,500 and the Bianchi 928L at $1,800 for the frames. Spending $4,000 for a frame wasn't an option, and both the Orca and 928 were the flag ship frames for Orbea and Bianchi. Ultimately, I wanted a Colnago and was able to find a Cristallo for $2,400, which was in my price range, so I bought it.

Right now, I only have a 1 year old and we are trying to put as much money away for college as possible so that we won't be completely broke when she, and hopefully, her future siblings, go to college. I feel your pain with the college tuition and related bills. At least you are being smart about it and not charging an $8,000 bike on a credit card and paying for it over 10 years.


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## bertoni

The old C40 will do just fine for a few more years, and I love riding it more every day. I upgraded the saddle to Fizik Arione this summer, which has made it even more comfortable. Long live the Colnagos!


----------



## Richieg

I don't think Colnago raised the prices. I think the importer in the USA raised the prices. I guess it's due to the falling dollar. Their buying the frames from Colnago in Euros, so every time the dollar falls, it cost more to buy the same frame. I assuming this is the case. You can buy the same frames in Europe at a much lower price if you shop around. So I don't think the Colnago prices in Europe have gone up like they have in America.


----------



## Richieg

*How do you like the Cristallo?*



fabsroman said:


> Agreed. The top of the line frames are all around the $4,000 to $5,000 range, with a couple of exceptions. 2 years ago when I was doing a ton of research to figure out what I was going to buy, because the C50 was out of my price range at that time, I was debating between the Orbea Orca at $2,500 and the Bianchi 928L at $1,800 for the frames. Spending $4,000 for a frame wasn't an option, and both the Orca and 928 were the flag ship frames for Orbea and Bianchi. Ultimately, I wanted a Colnago and was able to find a Cristallo for $2,400, which was in my price range, so I bought it.
> 
> Right now, I only have a 1 year old and we are trying to put as much money away for college as possible so that we won't be completely broke when she, and hopefully, her future siblings, go to college. I feel your pain with the college tuition and related bills. At least you are being smart about it and not charging an $8,000 bike on a credit card and paying for it over 10 years.


How do you like the Cristallo? I think it's pretty much the Italian CLX? Except the CLX has a curved top tube.


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## Kenacycle

I ordered the CX1 in naked carbon lastnight. I look forward to getting it by end of Oct or sometime in Nov!


----------



## De Rosa UD

CLX production hasn't been discontinued! ;-)


----------



## eff_dee

kdub said:


> I ordered the CX1 in naked carbon lastnight. I look forward to getting it by end of Oct or sometime in Nov!


kdub,

Do you still have the R3? I'm just curious since the CX-1 and R3 have some similarities and would guess they'll perform much the same.

If I was looking at the CX-1, I'd go for the naked carbon as well. It looks awsome.


----------



## Kenacycle

eff_dee said:


> kdub,
> 
> Do you still have the R3? I'm just curious since the CX-1 and R3 have some similarities and would guess they'll perform much the same.
> 
> If I was looking at the CX-1, I'd go for the naked carbon as well. It looks awsome.



Hi,

Yes I still have the R3 and I love it. I have decided to ride the R3 year round and just ride the crap out of it. I am selling my Colnago Titanio bike which I was using as rain/winter bike.
The CX-1 will be a new project that I'll build it up slowly.


----------



## Cyclingisalive

the $930 could be Distributor & the retailer's margin and extra shipping cost within the US., all those cost passed to the us, the consumer...


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## fabsroman

The CLX was supposed to be the affordable Cristallo. Now, there is no more Cristallo. Somebody above was correct. The CLX is still being built for 2009. So, it looks like the monocoque carbon frames and the aluminum frames will be Taiwanese, and the carbon fiber lugged frames will be Italian made.

To answer your question, the Cristallo feels almost exactly like the Arte I have, and I love both of them. However, after about 40 or more miles, I can really start to feel the miles. It is a pretty stiff frame and I don't notice any flex from it. The comfort factor is the reason I am buying a C50. If that frame isn't comfortable after 40+ miles, then I give up on riding long distances.


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## fabsroman

Don't the people in Europe use distributors too? If so, then it shouldn't be that far off, and the $4,800 prices I see here don't include shipping to the consumer; however, I guess there is some shipping from Italy to the US distributor and then to the US retailer, but $930 worth. Somewhere, somebody is making a really good profit margin. Whether it is the US distributor who I haven't heard anything good about, or the US retailers, I don't know, but since most of the US retailers have the same price point, I would assume that it has to be the distributor.

Not to mention that the C50 isn't available anywhere in the US in ST01. That, in and of itself, is a tragedy.


----------



## widespreadpanic

I sent an email to several friends in Rome to check prices on a C-50.
When they respond I will post them. It might take a few days.

WP


----------



## fabsroman

I can wait a couple days, a couple weeks, and maybe even a couple of months. Let me know what you find out.


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## De Rosa UD

fabsroman said:


> Don't the people in Europe use distributors too? If so, then it shouldn't be that far off, and the $4,800 prices I see here don't include shipping to the consumer; however, I guess there is some shipping from Italy to the US distributor and then to the US retailer, but $930 worth.* Somewhere, somebody is making a really good profit margin*. Whether it is the US distributor who I haven't heard anything good about, or the US retailers, I don't know, but since most of the US retailers have the same price point, I would assume that it has to be the distributor.


Have you ever thought of the US customs do pull out a "bit" of money when the frame arrives american terretory? ;-)


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## fabsroman

Somewhere above, in the myriad of posts, I mentioned that customs was 5% in arriving at my $930 difference. It must have been the post above the one you quoted. The C50 frame in Europe is between $3,400 and $3,500, and in the US the cost is about $4,800. So, there was intially a difference of about $1,300. 5% customs on $3,500 is $175, shipping for a single frame from Europe to the US is $100. So, knock $275 off of the $1,300 difference, and that gets us to around $1,000, AFTER taking into account shipping AND customs.

To answer your question more directly, I did take into account CUSTOMS in coming up with the $930 difference. I don't know why it comes out to $1,000 now, but I am also brain dead right now from a team ride hammerfest.


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## scott73

Hi guys!

Are you sure The C50 s are completly made in Italy. I think I heard the tubes are made in the far east. But they are lugged finished in italy and then painted to call it made in italy. The reason the cx 1 are made in taiwan is because its monocoq, and all frame is made in one process. The technology are also maybe better in far east also. So its not a disadvantage. seeing forward testing the cx1. Only reason most off the pros wouldnt race it is because off no custom option.

Bianchi also get carbon frames from factory in far east, Also the tubes in alu are made in taiwan, but welded in italy. The carbon are only painted in italy. I visited the factory after being a dealer for some years, so I know.

Love to be a Colnago owner one day.


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## De Rosa UD

Official price of a C50 frameset is about 3200 EUR here. most shops sell it for 2700-2800 EUR. That is about 4050- 4200 USD. Then you add about 100 USD (sometimes a bit more) to it, then you put 5 % taxes on it (207,50 - 215 USD) so that you end up with 4375,50 - 4515 USD for a C50 shipped from a german dealer to you.
Of course the US distributeur don't buy them via german dealers but they want to earn some money to and Colnagos are hyped in the US so that prices about 4800 USD are a logical step.

@ scott73: C50 frame parts aren't made in Asia. They're made at ATR who also makes carbon parts for Ferrari. ATR isn't far away off Cambiago so they ship the single tubes and lugs to Colnago where they put the frame together, put some resin between lugs and tubes and are "backed" as a whole again. Then the frame is painted - in Italy too.
The only part that might come from Asia is the new Carbon75 fork. The old Star fork is also made in Italy.


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## Cyclingisalive

C50 IS made in Italy - 100%.


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## BikeNerd2453

De Rosa UD said:


> Official price of a C50 frameset is about 3200 EUR here. most shops sell it for 2700-2800 EUR. That is about 4050- 4200 USD. Then you add about 100 USD (sometimes a bit more) to it, then you put 5 % taxes on it (207,50 - 215 USD) so that you end up with 4375,50 - 4515 USD for a C50 shipped from a german dealer to you.
> Of course the US distributeur don't buy them via german dealers but they want to earn some money to and Colnagos are hyped in the US so that prices about 4800 USD are a logical step.
> 
> @ scott73: C50 frame parts aren't made in Asia. They're made at ATR who also makes carbon parts for Ferrari. ATR isn't far away off Cambiago so they ship the single tubes and lugs to Colnago where they put the frame together, put some resin between lugs and tubes and are "backed" as a whole again. Then the frame is painted - in Italy too.
> The only part that might come from Asia is the new Carbon75 fork. The old Star fork is also made in Italy.


So the official price is 3,200 Euro, which works out to about $5,000 USD at today's conversion rates.


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## Eric_H

*3.5 hours on CX-1 today*

I had the opportunity to ride a demo CX-1 today as a friend of mine reps Colnago in my area. It was size 54 sloping (my size perfectly), built with SRAM Red and Reynolds Attack wheels. The color was ACRD (white/carbon with red). I put in about 3.5 hours on a spirited group ride today and was able to assess the CX-1 on some short, steep climbs and some rolling terrain while hammering pretty hard.

First up visually, this frame is a lot like the Cervelo R3 with very square/rectangular tubing. The top and down tube are very shaped and change in profile from front to back. The flat sections on the dowtube where the bottle bosses are seem very thin, this is a light frame and I suspect the wall thickness is rather minimal. The pictures on the website do not do the chainstays justice, they are not leaf-shaped like the Extreme Power but very rectangular. The seatstays are sort of like the CLX, but not exactly the same. The CLX has a monostay design, and the CX-1 is kind of like a curved B-stay. I did not pull the headset apart, but the new "integrated" design looks to have cups inserted into the frame so the bearings do not sit directly on the frame. The fork is massive at the crown, I have a current Extreme Power and the CX-1 fork is much more beefy than the Carbon 75 or the older Star fork. The paint was so-so, the color scheme looks better in person than on the website pictures but this bike had quite a few chips and the paint seemed to come off in "chunks" around the dropouts. Not horrific, but not the best paint quality either. The "COLNAGO" logos are not black, they are "hollow" showing the carbon weave with clearcoat.

On the road, the CX-1 felt much like the Extreme Power. There is zero flex at the BB, and I think the front end is also a little stiffer than the EP. The oversize downtube has major contact at the headtube, plus the fork is stiffer as well and this contributes to a very solid feeling under hard cornering or out of the saddle climbing. The ride is a little more harsh than the EP, but in fairness I was not running the same wheels although I was using the same tires on the CX-1 as my EP (Vredestein). The EP just seems to have a little more shock absorption on bumps, but this is often the case for a lugged carbon frame versus monocoque. The handling was classic Colnago, kind of lazy at slower speeds but super stable at high speeds and descending.

All in all, a very nice package and for $1700 less than the EP or $2950 less than the EPS (framesets). I think almost any rider would be happy with this frame and it should be a success for Colnago. Yes, it is made outside of Italy but in today's market does it really matter? Seatpost is 31.6, front derailleur is braze-on and the BB threads are English. The seat tube on the 54 sloping measured 55.8 cm from the center of the BB to the tip-top of the seat collar so add ~1.8 cm to any frame size to get a true center-top number.

I was not that impressed with SRAM Red, though this was a demo bike and I suspect a good tune-up might have made the drivetrain quieter and smoother. The rear shifting was decent and not too hard to adapt to, but compared to my usual Campy the front shifting was unimpressive. The lack of ability to trim the derailleur from small to big ring is a weakness. And the overall feeling of Red is kind of "cheap" compared to Record or Dura-Ace. The Reynolds Attack clinchers seemed to be solid wheels, they have very high spoke tension and the wheels seem laterally stiff. The braking on the carbon braking surface, even with Reynolds pads, is a little grabby and I would not want them on for a wet, twisty descent.

I was VERY impressed with the Prologo Scratch saddle. It reminds me of the Fizik Aliante but it is not quite as deep in its concavity and the edges have a little more flex under the back of the thighs. Even at a retail of $250 I am tempted to add the Prologo to my colleciton of saddles.


----------



## Kenacycle

EricH, thanks for the review.

I like to confirm the headtube length of the 54s because on the website it shows it's 179mm. If that is true that is a perferct length for me, but looking at pictures of the CX-1, it doesn't seem to have a really long headtube relative to it's size. Also the previous Colnago models headtubes aren't usually long. 

I have pre-ordered a 54s for it's shorter top tube, but most importantly because it has a 179mm headtube. If you could confirm the HS length that would be awesome

Also thanks for telling us the CX-1 BB is english threaded! It was never mentioned in the website what the threading was, and if I were to purchased a groupo for it now, I would have ordered an Italian. You've saved me from a potential problem.


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## fabsroman

All the frames made in Taiwan have English threaded BB's. The ones made in Italy have Italian threaded BB's. I made that mistake with the first Arte that I bought.


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## Eric_H

*Sorry, that ship has sailed*



kdub said:


> EricH, thanks for the review.
> 
> I like to confirm the headtube length of the 54s because on the website it shows it's 179mm. If that is true that is a perferct length for me, but looking at pictures of the CX-1, it doesn't seem to have a really long headtube relative to it's size. Also the previous Colnago models headtubes aren't usually long.
> 
> I have pre-ordered a 54s for it's shorter top tube, but most importantly because it has a 179mm headtube. If you could confirm the HS length that would be awesome
> 
> Also thanks for telling us the CX-1 BB is english threaded! It was never mentioned in the website what the threading was, and if I were to purchased a groupo for it now, I would have ordered an Italian. You've saved me from a potential problem.


The demo I was riding was returned to the rep and I think it is already boxed and on its way to Veltec for Interbike demo use, otherwise I would gladly get that number for you. Colnago is usually pretty accurate with measurements, so I would bet the headtube length is correct. The demo I rode had a conical spacer above the bearing that was ~15 mm in length. If this is added to the head tube length it is 194 mm. The non-integrated 54 sloping frames have a 165 mm headtube, then add about 30 mm for a traditional headset stack (FSA, King) and that gives 195 mm.

FWIW, I am 6' tall and the 54 sloping with a 120 stem was pretty much a perfect fit for me.


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## Muffinman

*Asian Carbon*

I am amazed that so many people are so dedicated to all Italian construction of carbon fibre frames. Italian DESIGN I can understand, but not manufacture. Taiwan in particular has some of the best facilities anywhere for production of carbon fibre and quite possibly more expertise in the fabrication of the product than do Italian manufacturers.
Would you really prefer the manufacturing quality of an Italian made Fiat or Alfa to an Asian made Lexus? 
To be honest, I would prefer to buy an Asian made frame over an Italian one any day. I ride one right now and it is brilliantly made.

Muffinman


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## fabsroman

"Would you really prefer the manufacturing quality of an Italian made Fiat or Alfa to an Asian made Lexus?"

That analogy is about the stupidest one I have seen in a while. Would you prefer an Italian made Ferrari, Lamborghini, or Maserati over an Asian made Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, or Nissan Sentra?

Name any top of the line Asian made car and compare it to a top of the line Italian car if you are going to make such an analogy. Especially since Colnago is considered the Ferrari of bikes and has collaborated with Ferrari to a degree. So, how about using that comparison against the Lexus.


----------



## Richieg

Muffinman said:


> I am amazed that so many people are so dedicated to all Italian construction of carbon fibre frames. Italian DESIGN I can understand, but not manufacture. Taiwan in particular has some of the best facilities anywhere for production of carbon fibre and quite possibly more expertise in the fabrication of the product than do Italian manufacturers.
> Would you really prefer the manufacturing quality of an Italian made Fiat or Alfa to an Asian made Lexus?
> To be honest, I would prefer to buy an Asian made frame over an Italian one any day. I ride one right now and it is brilliantly made.
> 
> Muffinman


 For the most part, Asian carbon is very good. I'm sure it's just like Italian manufacturing, some are better than others. Saying this, I doubt any Asian manufacturer is better than ATR. 

I think the bottom line is this. Most Italian bikes are made in Asia, then sent back to Italy, painted and then have "made in Italy" stamped on the bike. Ever wonder why they put this on the frame? Think about it......


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## Muffinman

It depends on what you mean by "top line" and perhaps you might check to see from whereFerrari out sources some of its carbon fibre.


----------



## fabsroman

My point is still valid. You were comparing cheap, entry level Italian cars to higher end Asian cars. If you compare the higher end cars against one another, I would have to give the edge to Italy.

Where Ferrari out sources its carbon fiber from has nothing to do with your poor analogy comparing low end Italian cars to high end Asian cars.


----------



## eff_dee

Muffinman said:


> It depends on what you mean by "top line" and perhaps you might check to see from whereFerrari out sources some of its carbon fibre.


All of Ferrari's CF comes from ATR group in Italy. Here is a list of some of their customers:

http://www.atrgroup.it/eng/clienti.htm

Note that they made the carbon chassis for Porsche's Carrera GT.


----------



## corky

Even the carbon-fibre used in the CX-1??? do they ship it to Asia for construction of the rear monocoque??


----------



## fabsroman

Corky, I believe the statement was that all of FERRARI'S carbon fiber comes from ATR, but maybe I missed something about ALL of Colnago's carbon fiber coming from ATR. I'm just going off of the post you linked your comment to.


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## MERAKMAN

Hi I know alot of Italian frame makers are still saying their frames are made in Italy but actually aren't. I have two De Rosa Teams and the one made around 2003/04 has better finished welds than the one I bought in 2007. Now maybe they just had a bad day at the office on the more recently made frame. Though it got me thinking whether, if the frames are now being made in the Far East, would this be an indication that the quality control's not quite as good than if it were made in Italy in the De Rosa factory?

This is all a theory, I maybe just putting two and two together and making 3, but what with all this talk of Far East made frames and the slightly off welds on my new De Rosa it made me think....


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## thedips

fabsroman said:


> Corky, I believe the statement was that all of FERRARI'S carbon fiber comes from ATR, but maybe I missed something about ALL of Colnago's carbon fiber coming from ATR. I'm just going off of the post you linked your comment to.


yea a rep from veltec told me that NOT all carbon is from atr... i had that mis understanding at one point...


----------



## QQUIKM3

*Need to get a clue. .*



fabsroman said:


> You can rest assured that I will not be buying one.


Giant has far more experience than Colnago in composites and are made in Taiwan. And Martec has a state of the art facility in Taiwan, and make some the best framesets in the world, moreover, Taiwan has had a serious aerospace program going for sometime giving them great experience in composites. Here's an example; I sold my 2005 Colnago C50 for a made in Taiwan Wilier Le Roi, and the Wilier is of better overall construction, and had a flawless clear-coat. My first C50 had to be sent back as the BB wasn't perpendicular. So much for Italian quality control.


----------



## Banning

*CX-1 Test Ride*

Week and half, with 6 rides and I was at the Consumer Launch of the CX-1 this Sunday in LA. Welcome to a new generation of Colnago! The bike is fantastic! Light, nimble, and a slightly more aggressive wheelbase with the classic stability of a Colnago. This is the bike for the C-50 rider that wants the club racing beast, the crit/road racing machine, or the person who wants the back up bike of the EPS. As a shop owner, the CLX is going to have a hard time finding it's spot in the lineup. I am comparing the bike to the stance of a Look 595 or a Specialized Tarmac SL2, with a little different method of achieving the same time of balance.

Stock will be in within the next three weeks and the CX-1 is still a Colnago! I going to ride one!

B


----------



## MERAKMAN

Banning said:


> Week and half, with 6 rides and I was at the Consumer Launch of the CX-1 this Sunday in LA. Welcome to a new generation of Colnago! The bike is fantastic! Light, nimble, and a slightly more aggressive wheelbase with the classic stability of a Colnago. This is the bike for the C-50 rider that wants the club racing beast, the crit/road racing machine, or the person who wants the back up bike of the EPS. As a shop owner, the CLX is going to have a hard time finding it's spot in the lineup. I am comparing the bike to the stance of a Look 595 or a Specialized Tarmac SL2, with a little different method of achieving the same time of balance.
> 
> Stock will be in within the next three weeks and the CX-1 is still a Colnago! I going to ride one!
> 
> B


Hi

Must ask, which bike do you honestly prefer; the C50 or the CX-1? I know you haven't ridden the CX-1 for that long but you must have got a pretty good idea which is the better riding bike? Or are they just as good as one another, but just different? Also, putting where they are built aside, which would you put your own money down on?


----------



## g8keyper

I'm still waiting for my CX-1 to show up, but once it's here I'll take lots of pictures and let you all know what I think about it. I can't wait for the arrival.


----------



## fabsroman

You aren't the only one waiting for a Colnago. I ordered my C50 almost a month ago, and Mr. Bellati has told me that Colnago is really slow with their stuff this year. He thinks it might be an 8 to 12 week for my frame, but I'm willing to wait. It has been so bad for him that he has actually taken the 2009 Colnago models off his website because he said he spends way too much administrative time answering e-mails from people wondering where their Colnago is. Good luck to you, and post pics when you get it. I'll do the same.


----------



## MERAKMAN

New UK Colnago prices just in!! 

C-50 Extreme Power & Extreme C: £2600 no change from last year.
EPS: £2900
CX-1 £2100. 
C50 £2300.

What do you think guys, is the CX-1 worth it now you saving a tad? It's bloody nice in the flesh btw!


----------



## bertoni

Read the review in the new issue of Bicycling. They were pretty knocked out by it.


----------



## MERAKMAN

bertoni said:


> Read the review in the new issue of Bicycling. They were pretty knocked out by it.


I'm in the UK and unfortunatly we don't get that mag here. Really lovely looking frame though and looks really hard, like it could knock out the C50 in a scrap!


----------



## bertoni

Go to the website link below and scroll down the "Watch Videos" column. There is video review of the CX-1 there.

http://www.bicycling.com/channel/0,6609,s1-1-0-0-0,00.html


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## Banning

1 bike, I would take the CX-1. I have a Look 595, so I would have to stay with my C 50. I have been playing the question between the Extreme Power and the C 50 for over a year and I love the way the C 50 sings on the road. The CX-1 is rocket ship. The C 50 is a Bentley.


----------



## MERAKMAN

Banning said:


> 1 bike, I would take the CX-1. I have a Look 595, so I would have to stay with my C 50. I have been playing the question between the Extreme Power and the C 50 for over a year and I love the way the C 50 sings on the road. The CX-1 is rocket ship. The C 50 is a Bentley.



I agree, that CX-1 looks like one stiff mother! Up close the BB is gargantium..to be honest it really is very nice and I had the other '3' babies to compare it with (just looking at), C50, Extreme C & Power. Had I had the money, I would have been torn between the Extreme Power and CX-1 and at the time, it didn't matter if the CX-1 was made on the Moon, it's just soooo sexy!!


----------



## MERAKMAN

bertoni said:


> Go to the website link below and scroll down the "Watch Videos" column. There is video review of the CX-1 there.
> 
> http://www.bicycling.com/channel/0,6609,s1-1-0-0-0,00.html



Hi Many thanks for that, I really appreciate it.


----------



## Mulowe

*CX 1 Test Ride*

I also was at the Colnago Consumer release ride in MDR a week ago.
For the record I do not work for Veltec or Colnago.
Wow it was a Great Event, Thank you Colnago and Veltec.
I think there were about 23 or so test riders.
First , The bikes look great. The photos on the web just dont do them justice.
They really looked quality. The design is a major deviation from traditional Colnago's but a very welcome one as well.
The test group was a mixed bunch from young to old, some racesrs but mostly weekend warriers. Many already own colnagos.
We did put the bikes through a few challenges although it was a group test ride and we tried to stay together for the two hour event.
We spun out through Santa Monica up into the hills then down a bit with a few twists and turns. There were a few chances to hammer so the bunch ramped it up nicely. I must say it was fun to see a full fleet of Colnagos flying down San Vincente.
So how did it do?
Fantastic!!! What a great bike. So you know I also have a c50 and a EP so my reference points are well know by most of you.
The CX1 is a rock solid machine that can jump very quickly, Climb without any power wasted and track very nicely in corners as well.
I would say it is as Stiff as the EP if not a little more. Makes the c50 seem a soft by comparison.
This frame is STIFF ! but the Comfort is just fine. 
So you all know , I would say my favorite Colnago of all time is the EP.
But I was so impressed with CX1 my C50 just slipped to 3rd place.
As most of you know the c50 is a classic all rounder and mine will never leave me but with the amount of climbing out here responsivness really matters. This frame responds as fast as anything I have ever ridden.
Also at the start of the ride there were allot of quite questions in the bunch about where it was made and why.
Its a fair discussion.
I love the Italian heritage and the pedigree of Colnago.
So, as we came back into Marina Del Rey people were talking about the bike and this issue. 
Most common response was "who cares, this is a great bike". "Clearly a real Colnago"
So for all of you out there rest assured if you buy a CX1 you will be very happy.


----------



## thedips

^^^^ exactly what i wanted to hear..

now i wish they would make better colors!!!


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## fabsroman

Yeah, the 2009 color schemes suck in my opinion. They don't do anything for me. When I saw them, I was able to tell my wife with confidence that she did not have to worry about me wanting another Colnago until 2010 because I couldn't stand any of the 2009 colors.


----------



## Gnarly 928

Interesting thread. I just ordered my CX-1 for a delivery date in Nov. Replacing a Ridley..

Where the carbon work is done is not nearly as important as where the bike is engineered, IMHO. Colnagos done in Asia still have all the experience of the Italian brand behind them; who mixes the epoxy and pushes it into place is not nearly as significant as who designs the angles, the proportions and the lay-up schedual and how they've decided to make the bike perform.

I've had half a dozen high end carbon bikes including Look, DeRosa King, Time, Noah, and Orbea. I've only had one Colnago..low end Dream B-stay..So I am no expert on Colnagos, but fine Euro frames are pretty familiar.

The C-50-style lugged frames are dynosaurs, like the Look 585 was/is. Stupendous Dinosaurs, but still, a "traditional method" without any justification other than..."That's how we've always done it". The lugged tube method of building with carbon is not able to fully take advantage of the material's properties. It's like putting 6 Weber carbs on a 2009 Ferrari...You would still have a really sweet ride, but why not take advantage of technological advances?

So I see the CX-1 as an evolutionary development of the Colnago brand. Going from my Look lugged carbon frame to a modern desigh like my Ridley Noah...Big improvment. And a huge savings in $..by not buying a lugged carbon frame for the name and for where it was 'supposed to be' built...

Can't wait to get onto a 'modern' Colnago..
Don Hanson


----------



## bertoni

I have been intrigued by this bike since it was announced, and am not troubled in the least that it is not manufactured in Italy. I think it will be very successful for Colnago, but I still have a soft spot for their "traditional" lugged frames. Since I don't race, comfort is a huge concern for me, and there is something just right about the ride and fit of my C40. I think it is important to note that the CX-1 is not a full monocoque frame, and I suspect this was no accident. The rear triangle lugs into the front, and should result in more vertical compliance. It will be interesting to hear more reviews as they become more available, especially from C40 and C50 owners. Congratulations on what should be a terrific bike.


----------



## Gnarly 928

My Look 585 lugged frame was one of the most comfortable performance bikes I've ever ridden. I don't think you can atribute comfort to the lugged assembly though. The Time VXR I had was a total killer on my anatomy and that was a lugged frame, too.

The idea of sticking tubes together like tinkertoys or Leggos..When the bike material option was only metal tubing, that made perfect sense. Only way you could do it, and the builders got really really good at making a light, durable ride using the method. They did all kinds of 'band-aid' engineering to make up for the drawbacks of using tubes and lugs, though. Internal ribs, double butted tube walls, hydroformed tube shapes, etc etc. All to enable them to stick the tube into the lug and not have the structure fail right at that joint, and yet have a light enough structure to be ridden fast.

Builders like Look, Colango, Time, Merlin, etc...they all carried over that same mind-set into the carbon era.."Make Carbon tubes. If you want stiff, mold in some internal ribs or make bigger diameter tubes or whatever" But they 'ignored' carbon's many advantages as a material..a few of which are: Need strength in only one load-axis? Lay in the fabric or tows properly and you have it. Have a load that changes it's direction, such as at the junction of the BB? Vary the layout of the fibers of carbon and overlap them from one "tube" to the next and you can vary the ride characteristics with out limit...(other than the ones imposed by cycling's rules makers) No "high-load" junction points where tubes must go into (or over) any lugs..

I think Colnago, Look, et al are being forced, by competition from non-traditional frame builders like Scott, BMC, Cervelo etc to move forward and get beyond the "lugged/tube" frame building method. Yes, it is still a viable method of making rider-specific frames..custom angles etc. For now..I bet there will be improvments on that front with molded frames soon enough...

Fun time to be a bike rider..Great advances are happening right now..

Don Hanson


----------



## bertoni

I would certainly agree with you that not all lugged carbon frames are created equal. Both Look and Colnago lavish far more care and attention to detail than most manufacturers on all of their frames, lugged or molded. It may be that we will look back on the C50 and the 585 as the zenith of lugged carbon frame design.


----------



## fabsroman

When I get my C50, I'll let you know how it compares to my lugless Cristallo. I really don't find the Cristallo to be much different than my aluminum Arte (i.e., a Dream HX made in Taiwan), and they are the exact same frame size with the exact same geometry and the exact same components. The C50 will be pretty much the same, but instead of a 50 sloping it will be a traditional 53 (i.e., just a tad bit smaller than the 50 sloping).


----------



## QQUIKM3

*I don't get it. .*



MERAKMAN said:


> . . .it didn't matter if the CX-1 was made on the Moon, it's just soooo sexy!!


Taiwan is VERY much more advanced than the Italians in composites. I dumped my 2005 Colnago C50 for a 2008 Wilier Le Roi that was made in. . You guessed it, Taiwan!:thumbsup:


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## fabsroman

"Very much more advanced" is VERY subjective. That is the excuse I'm going to use next after I get my C50. Honey, the carbon fiber is very much more advanced in Taiwan compared to Italy, that I should probably buy one of the carbon Taiwanese built Colnagos just to make sure. I cannot feel any flex in my Cristallo, but it does weigh 1,300 grams before adding the 500 gram Star Fork to it. It would be nice to have a sub 1,000 gram Colnago that doesn't flex at all either. Who knows, maybe in 5 years or so. Then again, I don't do a lot of mountain climb races either, so it doesn't matter that much.


----------



## Mulowe

*Cx 1*

Enjoy


----------



## Gnarly 928

*Nice!*

That red is the color I could get. Not wild about red bikes, but they do come from Italy and right next door to the Ferrari factory, so ....

I like the bike stand, too. I am going to make one for my new Colnago out of some exotic carbon-type fiber....Maybe carbon-based fibers, like laminated birds eye maple or walnut or oak... That would look real nice, front and center in my living room...

Don Hanson


----------



## fabsroman

My wife would kick me in the head if I even mentioned putting any of my Colnagos in the living room. Plus, there would be way too much traffic in the living room and somebody could damage that piece of art.


----------



## MERAKMAN

Hey Guys

What would you go for a DE ROSA Idol or the new CX-1? Thanks for your help.


----------



## eff_dee

Pez really liked the Idol. I'd guess it's a better all-rounder than the CX-1 and it's 100% made in Italy, for the sake of this thread.

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=5277


----------



## MERAKMAN

Yes!! I agree, must be one of the only frames left to be made there...


----------



## Gnarly 928

I had a DeRosa King recently. Super nice bike with traditional Italian handling and riding characterists. When you guys describe the C-50's ride, it sounds like you could substitute that DeRosa King for the bike. Beautiful detail but sloppy carbonfiber work (done in Italy, I guess). They didn't even bother to attempt to match the lay of of the fabric to the direction of the load down near the BB.

A bit too heavy for my taste, that King, and too 'sedate' in handling..But much nicer than most of the bikes I've owned as an all-rounder..Good on long rides, too.

Still waiting for my CX-1 to arrive. "Making do" with my Ridley Noah, for now...

Don Hanson


----------



## MERAKMAN

Gnarly 928 said:


> I had a DeRosa King recently. Super nice bike with traditional Italian handling and riding characterists. When you guys describe the C-50's ride, it sounds like you could substitute that DeRosa King for the bike. Beautiful detail but sloppy carbonfiber work (done in Italy, I guess). They didn't even bother to attempt to match the lay of of the fabric to the direction of the load down near the BB.
> 
> A bit too heavy for my taste, that King, and too 'sedate' in handling..But much nicer than most of the bikes I've owned as an all-rounder..Good on long rides, too.
> 
> Still waiting for my CX-1 to arrive. "Making do" with my Ridley Noah, for now...
> 
> Don Hanson


Lucky you making do with a Noah, is that the new 09 Noah btw? 

Sorry but where you say about substituting the C50 for the King I don't understand. Do you mean they are very similiar bikes to ride?

Also, how could you tell whether De Rosa had laid up the carbon fabric in the right direction? I wouldn't know if carbon was laid incorrectly just by looking at the comestic outer layer on a carbon bike, so I'm was curious how you knew this? Many thanks for your input.


----------



## bertoni

What are you building the frame up with? Can't wait to see some pics.


----------



## Gnarly 928

MERAKMAN said:


> Lucky you making do with a Noah, is that the new 09 Noah btw?
> 
> Sorry but where you say about substituting the C50 for the King I don't understand. Do you mean they are very similiar bikes to ride?
> 
> Also, how could you tell whether De Rosa had laid up the carbon fabric in the right direction? I wouldn't know if carbon was laid incorrectly just by looking at the comestic outer layer on a carbon bike, so I'm was curious how you knew this? Many thanks for your input.


 Last year's Noah. A fine bike, very good in sprints. Not a bike to be lazy with. If you ride the Noah properly it is rewarding. If you 'goof-off', like just sitting there on the saddle going downhill fast on rough pavement, it will 'remind you' to wake back up with a few hard hits to the tailbone and some bounces of the wheels..If I am going out alone on a long tempo ride, I usually grab my Ridley Damocles, which is a little more comfortable on rough pavement and allows you to relax, if you are so inclined. The trade off is that it's not so precise handling.

I've not had the pleasure of a C-50 ride, but everyone seems to use terms like "Settled, plush, predictable, and versatile" when describing how the C-50s ride is. That could describe the King's ride exactly, too. Excellent descending bike and smooooth on chip-seal..

The King I had was clear carbon finish with just a few red pinstripes and solid black color over what you would the "tube junctions" (except there aren't real tubes in the monocoque layup).
The "downtube" frame member and the top tube are pretty intricate shapes on the King. Mine, the carbon fabric was kinda skewed, not real straight. If you want maximum strength for a given amount of material, the 'tows' of the fabric should be aligned with the direction of he frame loads, not just "close". Especially on a very high dollar top of the line Italian frame. There were also 'small pieces" of fabric showing under the clear coat around my bottom bracket area. Looked to me like they just dumped in some scraps of carbon fiber, then back-filled it with some carbon/epoxy putty..Along the top tube, underneath, there was also a place where the fabric ended, then started again..Like they used two pieces of cloth rather than cutting one to fit properly. I kinda wonder what the carbon looked like under the blacked-out painted areas.

Pretty 'casual' Italian craftsmanship..Still, it rode just fine and I wish I had room and time for all the good bikes..

Don Hanson


----------



## BikeNerd2453

Gnarly 928 said:


> The King I had was clear carbon finish with just a few red pinstripes and solid black color over what you would the "tube junctions" (except there aren't real tubes in the monocoque layup).
> The "downtube" frame member and the top tube are pretty intricate shapes on the King. Mine, the carbon fabric was kinda skewed, not real straight. If you want maximum strength for a given amount of material, the 'tows' of the fabric should be aligned with the direction of he frame loads, not just "close". Especially on a very high dollar top of the line Italian frame. There were also 'small pieces" of fabric showing under the clear coat around my bottom bracket area. Looked to me like they just dumped in some scraps of carbon fiber, then back-filled it with some carbon/epoxy putty..Along the top tube, underneath, there was also a place where the fabric ended, then started again..Like they used two pieces of cloth rather than cutting one to fit properly. I kinda wonder what the carbon looked like under the blacked-out painted areas.
> 
> Pretty 'casual' Italian craftsmanship..Still, it rode just fine and I wish I had room and time for all the good bikes..
> 
> Don Hanson


The outer layer of carbon you see is almost always just a cosmetic layer, and has nothing to do with how the carbon is laid up below that. You can't really infer the layup schedule on a bike from looking at the outside of the tubes.
That said, I haven't seen your DeRosa, so I'm not saying that it wasn't done incorrectly or anything.


----------



## Gnarly 928

*Cosmetic?*



BikeNerd2453 said:


> The outer layer of carbon you see is almost always just a cosmetic layer, and has nothing to do with how the carbon is laid up below that. You can't really infer the layup schedule on a bike from looking at the outside of the tubes.
> That said, I haven't seen your DeRosa, so I'm not saying that it wasn't done incorrectly or anything.


 Isn't cosmetic supposed to look "nice"? You would think a fancy company with such a great tradition of making "fine handcrafted Italian" fremes, selling them for very top dollar and touting their exceptional finish..You'd think they would pay a little more attention to get the cosmetics right...Those in charge at DeRosa must know that a lay-up with a clearcoat finish like on the Kings, the first layer put into the mold will show, for the life of that frame, exactly how much care went into laying it all up;

Personally, I don't think any layer in a bike meant to race should be 'cosmetic'. And if it is included as a cosmetic layer, it should at least be right...not sloppy..Kinda like if Angelina Jolie put her lipstick on but missed her lips...

When you see such a casual treatment of the layer of carbon that DOES show, you gotta wonder how careful they were with everything else...Did 'Antonio' actually measure how hot the oven was? Did they stick the bikes in the autoclave and go out for Espresso? You know what I mean?

Still, a nice bike, picking Nits when I mention the carbon stuff..

Don Hanson


----------



## BikeNerd2453

Gnarly 928 said:


> Isn't cosmetic supposed to look "nice"? You would think a fancy company with such a great tradition of making "fine handcrafted Italian" fremes, selling them for very top dollar and touting their exceptional finish..You'd think they would pay a little more attention to get the cosmetics right...Those in charge at DeRosa must know that a lay-up with a clearcoat finish like on the Kings, the first layer put into the mold will show, for the life of that frame, exactly how much care went into laying it all up;
> 
> Personally, I don't think any layer in a bike meant to race should be 'cosmetic'. And if it is included as a cosmetic layer, it should at least be right...not sloppy..Kinda like if Angelina Jolie put her lipstick on but missed her lips...
> 
> When you see such a casual treatment of the layer of carbon that DOES show, you gotta wonder how careful they were with everything else...Did 'Antonio' actually measure how hot the oven was? Did they stick the bikes in the autoclave and go out for Espresso? You know what I mean?
> 
> Still, a nice bike, picking Nits when I mention the carbon stuff..
> 
> Don Hanson


Not disagreeing that it shouldn't look better, just saying that on bikes with visible weave (vs. most with the unidirectional carbon) that the outer layer doesn't have anything to do with the structure of the frame. A lot of people are ditching the outer one now, and just letting the carbon show through, but it's a choice that each company makes.
I agree with your other points though, 100%.


----------



## MERAKMAN

Guys

C50 standard or CX-1? 

Tanks..


----------



## fabsroman

It depends on what you want to use it for. I just bought a C50 because I never plan to race it and intend on doing most of my training on it. If you are willing to race a carbon fiber frame, you should probably go with the CX-1, EPS, or one of the Extremes. It just depends on what your focus is going to be. When I bought my Cristallo, I thought it was going to be my one and only bike. 5 bikes later, I probably should have started with the C50 instead of the Cristallo.


----------



## MERAKMAN

fabsroman said:


> It depends on what you want to use it for. I just bought a C50 because I never plan to race it and intend on doing most of my training on it. If you are willing to race a carbon fiber frame, you should probably go with the CX-1, EPS, or one of the Extremes. It just depends on what your focus is going to be. When I bought my Cristallo, I thought it was going to be my one and only bike. 5 bikes later, I probably should have started with the C50 instead of the Cristallo.


Thanks, the HolyGrail; a man in the know...so how does your C50 compare to everything else you've bought, sold and ridden? Congrats on a mega purchase btw!


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## fabsroman

I ordered the C50 September 9th and am still waiting on it. So, no ride reports yet. All the parts except the saddle and the bars have been sitting in my garage since August waiting for the frame.


----------



## corky

Fabs, what colour did you choose and who's supplying it? .... am thinking of a 2009 c-50 myself


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## fabsroman

I actually went with a 2008 color scheme in ST01 on a 2009 frame from Bellatisport. He took down all the Colnagos from his website because the lead time was too long and it was causing him too much of an administrative headache. I can understand what he means based upon my current wait time. Initially, he told me it could be between 6 to 8 weeks. When I saw he took Colnagos off his site, I e-mailed him and asked him about my C50, and he promised me I would be getting it, but that the wait times could be a month longer than he initially told me, and that was the reason he took Colnago off his website. People just weren't patient enough to wait for them that long. I guess he remembered how patient I was 2 years ago when I bought my Cristallo from him and waited 8 weeks for it. I'll give him until the beginning of December before I start asking where the frame is.


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## corky

interesting.... CC dropping Colnago and now Belatia..... I know Maestro have a good rep and good customer relations + they can supply any older paint, so I may go with them.

Good choice you made though and hope it works out.....let us know?


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## fabsroman

If I don't have this frame by Christmas, I'll be going with Maestro too. I think Colnago might be in for a lesson on snobbery. If I cannot buy a frame over the internet, I'm not really interested in it because I don't really like any LBS around here and only one carries Colnagos that I know about.


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## Gnarly 928

It's my understanding, from reading and from friends who are Colnago riders, the CX-1 is supposed to be a modern version of the Extreeme Power crossed with the Extreeme C (lame model name, IMHO, the Extreeme..) The owner of my LBS and a National Jersey winner who sometimes race an Extreeme Power, but he's replacing it with a CX-1 this coming season..He rode the CX-1 this fall and says it's lighter and stiffer and quicker handling.

It's his opinion that the C-50 (he is a Colnago dealer, too) is now slotting in as a very high performance club bike..that can be raced. 

This fellow is 6'2" and quite powerful. He races at 50+ but is usually in contention with NRC 2's in big stage races, finished the Everest Challenge recently 2nd, overall...He is quite a strong climber and has a national TT jersey...So I am thinking, if he's racing a CX-1 and switching over from an Extreem Power...and he can have any bike he wants, BTW, 

So a CX-1 is in my future, too. Mainly because I am a new bike addict..

Don Hanson


----------



## MERAKMAN

Gnarly 928 said:


> It's my understanding, from reading and from friends who are Colnago riders, the CX-1 is supposed to be a modern version of the Extreeme Power crossed with the Extreeme C (lame model name, IMHO, the Extreeme..) The owner of my LBS and a National Jersey winner who sometimes race an Extreeme Power, but he's replacing it with a CX-1 this coming season..He rode the CX-1 this fall and says it's lighter and stiffer and quicker handling.
> 
> It's his opinion that the C-50 (he is a Colnago dealer, too) is now slotting in as a very high performance club bike..that can be raced.
> 
> This fellow is 6'2" and quite powerful. He races at 50+ but is usually in contention with NRC 2's in big stage races, finished the Everest Challenge recently 2nd, overall...He is quite a strong climber and has a national TT jersey...So I am thinking, if he's racing a CX-1 and switching over from an Extreem Power...and he can have any bike he wants, BTW,
> 
> So a CX-1 is in my future, too. Mainly because I am a new bike addict..
> 
> 
> Ok guys, hope your sitting down as I know you love Colnagos...
> 
> De Rosa King3 or CX-1 or C50 Extreme Power or EPS..? In order of preference tanks.


----------



## eff_dee

I love the King 3. 

But I'd guess the CX-1 may be a little racier, in terms of stiffness, weight, handling...


----------



## MERAKMAN

eff_dee said:


> I love the King 3.
> 
> But I'd guess the CX-1 may be a little racier, in terms of stiffness, weight, handling...


Thanks for the reply, what do you love about the King 3? Do you have one btw, if so how does it ride?


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## eff_dee

Unfortunately, no King for me :frown5: 

My admiration is strictly looks here.

Don't forget about the new Neo Pro either. Really nice frame:


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## fabsroman

It would depend on what you are planning on doing with it. I would probably take the C50 because the only reason I ride carbon is for the comfort factor, which I am not completely sold on yet. If the C50 doesn't sell me on it, that will be the last carbon frame I buy. Anyway, all the other frames mentioned are pure carbon racing frames, and I refuse to race on carbon because I'm just not that rich and I am extremely sentimental. My wife still tells people that I almost started crying when I got home from a ride and looked over my Cristallo after a chain suck incident. I could not imagine crashing that bike in a race.

If I was daddy war bucks and had unlimited funds, I would probably race on the EPS because it is made in Italy and it is a Colnago. At 150 pounds, I seriously doubt I produce enough power to flex any frame, and I have never really noticed flex in any frame that I have owned.

I was going to say maybe the CX-1 or Extreme C for weight if I were rich, but there are hardly any races around me that have any significant climbing in them. Granted, the King3 comes in at 950 grams which is pretty light, but again, it isn't something that I would really need and it isn't a Colnago. LOL


----------



## MERAKMAN

True, but being abit vain, I really wanted a frame that the pro riders use and I don't know whether the Neo-Pro will be used in the peleton...

As you say though, very nice frames..


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## fabsroman

Why not buy something nicer than what the pros use in the peleton? I race on an Arte, and I am pretty sure that the pro riders aren't using Arte's. Meanwhile, I get tons of compliments on my Arte at races. Talk about being vain, at the last race of this year I received 2 compliments on my bike, and told my wife that I am going to buy a new racing bike the moment I stop receiving compliments on my current one.


----------



## MERAKMAN

fabsroman said:


> Why not buy something nicer than what the pros use in the peleton? I race on an Arte, and I am pretty sure that the pro riders aren't using Arte's. Meanwhile, I get tons of compliments on my Arte at races. Talk about being vain, at the last race of this year I received 2 compliments on my bike, and told my wife that I am going to buy a new racing bike the moment I stop receiving compliments on my current one.



Lol. I like where your coming from. I've been looking at the Arte, very nice frame that. I'm not that overwhelmed with this years colours though..but you don't buy a bike just for the colour I guess...


----------



## fabsroman

I buy them just for the color. That is why I bought the C50 right now. I got it in a 2008 color of ST01 because I couldn't stand any of the 2009 colors. I had initially wanted it in STIT, but then ended up liking ST01 better, so I could hold off buying it for a year. Thought I might get away with it for another year, but the 2009 schemes just suck in my opinion. I have an Arte in bare aluminum with a couple of touches of paint, and another in NS03 which matches my Cristallo in NS03.

Honestly, I like the DeRosa paint schemes a lot better than the 2009 Colnago ones.


----------



## MERAKMAN

fabsroman said:


> I buy them just for the color. That is why I bought the C50 right now. I got it in a 2008 color of ST01 because I couldn't stand any of the 2009 colors. I had initially wanted it in STIT, but then ended up liking ST01 better, so I could hold off buying it for a year. Thought I might get away with it for another year, but the 2009 schemes just suck in my opinion. I have an Arte in bare aluminum with a couple of touches of paint, and another in NS03 which matches my Cristallo in NS03.
> 
> Honestly, I like the DeRosa paint schemes a lot better than the 2009 Colnago ones.



Interesting, I really like the Colnago 2009 colours. They are using metallic paint this year. I think they are well sexy! King 3 or C50 (any version) that is the question...?


----------



## corky

I just ordered an EP in AM00 ...this is the only 2009 color I really like....can't wait!


----------



## fabsroman

By the way, I don't just buy them for the color. They obviously have to be very functional, but whether I buy one in 2007, 2008, or 2009 depends on what color schemes strike me. Everybody has different tastes when it comes to style, and there just isn't a scheme from Colnago in 2009 that suits my taste. Likewise, some people hate the PRAL scheme and I really like it. However, in carbon bikes I really prefer as clear a scheme as possible that shows off most of the carbon with just some paint accents here and there. For instance, out of the 3 CX-1 schemes, I like the AC00 scheme the best. I'm not crazy about it, but it would be the one I went with out of the 3 available on the CX-1.


----------



## MERAKMAN

corky said:


> I just ordered an EP in AM00 ...this is the only 2009 color I really like....can't wait!



Well done! Yes I like that colour too. More carbon than colour and nice little Italian flag bits in it. No I really like 2009 colours...


----------



## corky

yeah too much white on the rest of the schemes....


----------



## fabsroman

I am definitely not a big fan of a white paint scheme, so that limits me with the 2009 colors.


----------



## MERAKMAN

fabsroman said:


> I am definitely not a big fan of a white paint scheme, so that limits me with the 2009 colors.


I don't know about that, there's quite a few colours to choose from, most with white on, but not all over...


----------



## uscsig51

How about adding the Wilier Cento Uno to the mix? Any thoughts or comparisons between the CX-1 and Cento Uno?


----------



## MERAKMAN

Cyclingisalive said:


> The weight of the CX-1 frame is 940 grams for a 52s - price point will be in $4.300 - 4.500 range - I got the info during a presentation of the CX-1 at my local Colnago shop. And the Italian production will still be maintained - The C50 Family, Extreme C, Extreme Power, Master X Light, Dream HX - who of the Italian manufactures can present such an extensive line made in Italy?



De Rosa?:idea:


----------



## MERAKMAN

Ok lets huncker down and reflect on the CX-1 abit more..Would we, if it were made in Italy, all have big hard-ons for it and want one far more than now; knowing its made in the Far East? (sorry for the gratuitous language, just find it amusing!) I think yes. If thats the case and it rides well, aren't we being abit vain about its source of production? I mean I'm sure Mr Colnago has researched and developed his baby, as much as any other frame with his name on, in order to protect that very name's reputation...


----------



## corky

Not me...... I don't like the swoopy rear stays, I don't like any of the paint schemes and I don't like the pregnant headtube. Which is why I've oredered an EP (not an EPS).

...and yes,I believe the asian source for the front-end does de-value the frame even though it probably is as well built as an Italian. I think one of the reasons people buy a Colango is that it is Italian made.....(maybe this is not a pc view but it is mine and i'm entitled to it). If we wanted a frame sourced from Asia there are Many alternatives.

I think Ernesto is making a few (biiggish) marketing mistakes at the moment, coupled with the current economic downturn, things will be tough in the near-future.


----------



## MERAKMAN

I agree about the made in Asia issue; it may well cloud the mystic of Colnago's hertiage in some eyes. Though apart from purely cosmetic reasons, would the demand be higher for the CX-1 if it were indeed made in Italy? I still think it would. Personally I really like the look of it, it has some real presence in the flesh. I admit to being torn between the purists traditional C50 and the new boy CX-1..EP is an amazing frame, well done!


----------



## Gnarly 928

*Hearsay...*



uscsig51 said:


> How about adding the Wilier Cento Uno to the mix? Any thoughts or comparisons between the CX-1 and Cento Uno?


 Two of my teammates raced this season on Williers and are currently waiting delivery on new CX-1s, for what that is worth. They both raved about their Williers and had super results. One is our Masters team leader who is also a shop owner. He had a chance to try one at Interbike, I think..

I certainly admire his "other" Willier TT frame...Wow, that one is a knockout. He also has a C-50 EP that he raced some last season..He is not an "equipment junky" as such, but he does do whatever he can to win races...so choosing the CX-1 when he can have any bike he wants, that has to say someting about how he feels it should race..

Don Hanson


----------



## MERAKMAN

Richieg said:


> Colnago has their "loyal following" that demands "100% made in Italy" If they start building all their frames in Asia, the following might as well buy a Giant or any other Asian frame for much less. I must admit the carbon built by ATR in Italy is quite stunning. My friend has a new Ferrari 599 with ATR carbon bits on the interior. It's like none other that I've seen. It's fantastic looking stuff.


Have you seen Giants carbon recently? They are beautifully finished. Last years TCR Advanced was one of the best finished carbon frames out there and looking closely, equal to Colnago finish. I used to dislike Giants, but with the 2007/08 TCR they have moved on a great deal. I had the opportunity to test a TCR Advanced over a weekend, it was one of THE best bikes I've ridden and had the feeling of using very high tech carbon. I have ridden a C40 and it felt old compared to the TCR. Sorry! I think its no bad thing Colnago have gone to Giant for their frame manufacturing, their carbon is probably some of the best in the world. I suspect Colnago use Giant's carbon fibre in their frames, more than what we'd think too...


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## MERAKMAN

eff_dee said:


> I wonder if Cervelo fans will claim that Mr. Colnago copied the squoval tube profile of the R3, for his new CX-1....? They look similar.


The CX-1 IS Colnago's answer to the R3.....


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## Guest

I don't think the argument "made in Asia" means low quality anymore. As somebody said take a look at the new Giant bikes, Cervelo, Pinarello, Argon18. These bike are all produced by machines to exactness. Take a look at BMW's made in the USA. Do you think people say: I won't buy a BMW which is made in the US. I doubt it. Look at how beautiful and well designed (in the USA) MacBook Pro but it is manufactured in China. I'm getting a CX-1.


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## bertoni

No reason to say sorry about the C40 feeling "old"-as one of the very first all carbon racing bikes the basic design is over fifteen years old. Bikes like the new TCR Advanced should be light years ahead of the C40 in terms of technology and design. The 2009 TCR is a beautiful bike, and much improved over the previous model. And that would be frustrating to someone trying to stay on the cutting edge of bike design, but thats also what sells new bikes. As the owner of a C40 that is almost ten years old, I know it isn't the lightest, or the stiffest, or even the most comfortable frame out there anymore, but I don't really care, it still feels better than any bike I have rode. There will come a day when I replace it, but for now my only wish is that the roads were not covered in snow, ice, and dirt. Oh well, I can still look at it every day.


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## Gnarly 928

*Giant>CX-1>paint scheme>performance.*



MERAKMAN said:


> Have you seen Giants carbon recently? They are beautifully finished. Last years TCR Advanced was one of the best finished carbon frames out there and looking closely, equal to Colnago finish. I used to dislike Giants, but with the 2007/08 TCR they have moved on a great deal. I had the opportunity to test a TCR Advanced over a weekend, it was one of THE best bikes I've ridden and had the feeling of using very high tech carbon. I have ridden a C40 and it felt old compared to the TCR. Sorry! I think its no bad thing Colnago have gone to Giant for their frame manufacturing, their carbon is probably some of the best in the world. I suspect Colnago use Giant's carbon fibre in their frames, more than what we'd think too...


 Giant made some mistakes with their TCRs. They built a real 'shaker' for a few years. I have a friend who raced one. He was in a good GC position in a 3 day stage race and leading during the final RR when his Giant went into a 'death-wobble' and allowed the chase group to pass him and put him back almost a minute during a high speed descent. That sucks! Who needs a bike that lets you down like that? Work your ass off for three long hard racing days then get almost dumped because the manufacturer blew it on design. Many other racers bad-mouth the same bike for similar behavior.

Colnago has yet to make a mistake like that. That is what you pay the big bucks for when you choose a bike with a rep like Colnago, DeRosa, Look, Time, Pinarello..The C-40, after 10+ years of production led to the C-50>EP/EC> and on and on..Building on tried and true designs. With Colnago's reputation, you know you'll not be getting a bike with any faults. When it's been sucessfully raced and then put up for public sale, like Colnago is known to do, you know you're getting a very good frame.

Buying a bike for it's paint scheme? Not that important to me. The CX-1 I have coming is not one I'd have chosen, (red and white?) if I'd had the option to choose my graphics...but I'll close my eyes when I come up to it to ride, or something. I thought I'd never ride a red bike..but I have a red Ridley right now (another team bike) and it's actually grown on me...plus you don't see the paint when you are riding, you feel the bike down there and how it works, not how it looks..I thought the DeRosa Dual I have was the single ugliest paint scheme ever on a bike...but I love the bike anyhow..I had a really cool painted Trek 5900/Madone that was a total slug to ride...I called it the Truck...but it looked fast...Ugg.

Don Hanson


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## bertoni

Couldn't agree more-I have rode Trek, Specialized, etc, and cannot find anything that has the "feel" of a Colnago. Nor am I concerned that a Colnago not built in Italy will suffer in comparison to the other Italian models.


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## MERAKMAN

metanoize said:


> I don't think the argument "made in Asia" means low quality anymore. As somebody said take a look at the new Giant bikes, Cervelo, Pinarello, Argon18. These bike are all produced by machines to exactness. Take a look at BMW's made in the USA. Do you think people say: I won't buy a BMW which is made in the US. I doubt it. Look at how beautiful and well designed (in the USA) MacBook Pro but it is manufactured in China. I'm getting a CX-1.


Agreed, the quality is very good coming out of Asia. I'm torn between the CX-1 and the C50 Strada because they are so closely priced in the UK. I've always fancied a C50, its a classic machine and famous too, but the CX-1 turns me on, with its square profiles and big tubing..


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## MERAKMAN

I love the way you have descibed your feelings for the C40. I see what you mean too, other , newer designed frames may have the edge on techology and build construction, but the C40/50 still has an undeniable MAGIC! Kind of like an older Ferrari perhaps...?


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## bertoni

MERAKMAN said:


> Agreed, the quality is very good coming out of Asia. I'm torn between the CX-1 and the C50 Strada because they are so closely priced in the UK. I've always fancied a C50, its a classic machine and famous too, but the CX-1 turns me on, with its square profiles and big tubing..


I like the CX-1 also, but I would take a hard look at the new EPS as well if I was serious about a new frame. Here is a link to a review at the Societa Colnago website. I know, its a lot of money, but not a whole lot more than a CX-1.

http://www.colnago.cc/


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## MERAKMAN

bertoni said:


> I like the CX-1 also, but I would take a hard look at the new EPS as well if I was serious about a new frame. Here is a link to a review at the Societa Colnago website. I know, its a lot of money, but not a whole lot more than a CX-1.
> 
> http://www.colnago.cc/



Thanks for this Bertoni!


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## KennyG

This thread has lots of back-and-forth on the whole traditional design that works vs newer technology and design. Ernesto Colnago is (or was) known for not making changes in design unless there was a significant advantage for his customers (the cyclist). Imagine that! A very refreshing attitude in our modern business economy. It is a shame that he seems to be viewed as "behind the times" for taking this approach.

Now, on to the bikes! Is there really any advantage for the cyclist with the modern (regardless on where it is made), mass produced, monocoque, sloping carbon frame designs that comprise 90 something percent of carbon bikes made today? If I were to argue that this "modern" design is really the result of advantages that the manufacturer enjoys, could that be disputed? Newer technology does not necessarily yield a superior product for the consumer. Sometimes technology just benefits the cost ratio and efficiency of the manufacturer.

I have ridden a C-50 for almost a year now, and I can truly say that it has a much more sophisticated feel than the 2-3 “modern” monocoque carbon frames that I have ridden. The monocoque carbon frames may be slightly stiffer and lighter, but they don't have the same feel or ride quality. Unless you are a pro who needs the 5-10 second gain over a 3 mile climb that these frames would provide, the slight weight and stiffness differences are not a relevant advantage. So, my question is, to the common (non-elite pro) cyclist, what are the tangible advantages of the "newer technology" frames?


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## fabsroman

My monocoque Cristallo weighs 100 grams more than my C50, so there is no advantage in weight there. I haven't ridden the C50 yet, so maybe the Cristallo is stiffer, but I have never felt as though any frame I have ridden wasn't stiff. Might have to do with me being 150 lbs.

All of this "technology" stuff with bikes is really killing me. I think bikes are just like cars. The technology gains are really measured in decades and it is hard to justify a bike purchase or groupo purchase on technology gains every year or two. Same goes for bike wheels. My 2007 Campy Eurus tubulars weigh 300 grams more than a set of 1985 Campy Record Crono's that I can build up with 28 spokes, and how much more aerodynamic are those Eurus wheels than the old box style rims? Sometimes, you just have to sit back and wonder about all of this.


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## Gnarly 928

KennyG said:


> Ernesto Colnago is (or was) known for not making changes in design unless there was a significant advantage for his customers (the cyclist). Imagine that! A very refreshing attitude in our modern business economy. It is a shame that he seems to be viewed as "behind the times" for taking this approach.
> 
> Actually he's (or his company's) not changed his practices by making these current design changes. He didn't 'jump right in' and start doing molded frames until he'd determined there actually IS an advantage for his customers (the cyclists) Colnago has in fact made monocoque frames for a few years, the Ferrari 'exclusive limited addition frames.
> 
> 
> 
> Is there really any advantage for the cyclist with the modern (regardless on where it is made), mass produced, monocoque, sloping carbon frame designs that comprise 90 something percent of carbon bikes made today? If I were to argue that this "modern" design is really the result of advantages that the manufacturer enjoys, could that be disputed?
> 
> Yes it is disputed. Carbon composite structures are a relativly new development, be they bikes, airplanes, golf clubs, whatever. The advantage of carbon composite construction is that it does not have to be a bunch of smaller components assembled into a larger structure using small peices fastened (glued, riveted, welded, whatever..) It can be engineered to it's final form and function to eliminate joints. When there are no joints in a structure, it can be made more effective. Joints, lugs, welds, connections..whatever..are potential weak spots, and they are "hard-spots" in the structure's ability to flex or transmit vibration. If joints are built to be strong enough to NOT be weak spots (like double butted tubes in a metal bike) they are needlessly heavy..Very slightly, yes...but
> 
> Why give up an advantage offered by a new material by assembling a bike frame using "old" methods better suited to pipes and tubes? Colnago waited till he decided that indeed, a one peice (I know, the CX-! is a hybrid with only the front half made in a mold) frame IS an advantage for the cyclist. And for his company now, too, since that is what the Pro Peloton wanted to ride..
> 
> Newer technology does not necessarily yield a superior product for the consumer. Sometimes technology just benefits the cost ratio and efficiency of the manufacturer.
> 
> I am no marketing or production wonk but making a molded bike line and bringing acceptable and desirable frames to the market is not just a cheap way to make more money for the company. Having 'standard' frame junction lugs made and buying carbon tubes, then having a bunch of 'craftsman' in front of chopsaws and jigs gluing the peices together in various lengths..(I know, simplistic.) is actually probably almost as economical as doing the molded process overseas...
> 
> I have ridden a C-50 for almost a year now, and I can truly say that it has a much more sophisticated feel than the 2-3 “modern” monocoque carbon frames that I have ridden.
> 
> 'sophisticated feel' is pretty subjective and a matter of your perception.. As you say below, monocoque frames do feel different..a matter of taste and brand, too.
> 
> 
> The monocoque carbon frames may be slightly stiffer and lighter, but they don't have the same feel or ride quality. Unless you are a pro who needs the 5-10 second gain over a 3 mile climb that these frames would provide, the slight weight and stiffness differences are not a relevant advantage. So, my question is, to the common (non-elite pro) cyclist, what are the tangible advantages of the "newer technology" frames?


 You just wrote it (the tangible advantage) above. "slightly stiffer and lighter" and "5-10 seconds gain over a 3 mile climb" I am no pro, but 5-10 seconds might win me a club race. I see no reason to ride a 'tinker-toy" style bike (no dissrespect meant to lugged or brazed frames, it just describes how they seem to be put together in an amusing way..) if better are available. "tradition" is great, if that's what you are into. I had a 'traditional-build' carbon Look frame that I simply loved..but I probably would buy newer style mono frame now. Just like I am choosing a CX-1 over the C-50s right now...

Don Hanson


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## Gnarly 928

*whoops! sorry..*

for not proof-reading my post. the replies are interspersed with the quote except the last paragraph. 

Don Hanson


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## Jbartmc

*Tubed and lugged frames*

I have yet to ride a more modern frame, but I do enjoy (very much) my Colnago Extreme Power as well as my Trek Madone SSLx. I am not an elite rider by any stretch of the imagination. I suppose that a sloping top tube is something that does not appeal too much to me although I have ordered a new P1 Madone.


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## mj3200

*My 2 Cents And An Overdue Answer For Fabsroman*

In the picture post I recently posted my C50 and Master Xlite and was asked by Fabsroman as I had said that I had bought the C50 to see what the difference between the two closest steel and carbon bikes I could think of was. Perhaps I should be posting on the other thread, but my reply and comments seem to fit here just as well.

You can't beat the flowing lines and the integrated headset look of the most modern frames in a way, although I also love chrome forks and staya as well (I have a PDM Concorde I could post pics of if anyone is intrested). I am trying to demonstrate that I'm not stuck in one era or another.

I work very near Parker International who some of you may have dealt with in the past, and those who have will know that the have been in the business for many years and their staff's knowledge is vast. Why do I say this? It is the candid opinion of their staff that I've spoken to about this that the latest monocoque frames are too reminicent of the older aluminium frames in terms of stiffness - something that carbon was introduced to get away from. 

So back to the question that was posed by Fabsroman re the difference between the C50 and Master. There is quite a difference I suppose, but similar to the diference I felt between Reynolds 531 and 753 when I changed over umpteen years ago. So the frame is lighter, but not vastly so. It is stiffer torsionally so the stronger you are the more the benefit would be, but again not vastly so. Looks both are the same in their own way. I would have to come down in favour of the C50 if I had to give one away. There is a massive difference in cost though which most folk would have to factor in, bear in mind that new the C50 is about double the price of the Master, roughly $2000 or so. Once that's in the mix - and that is the reality - then most folk would have to really ponder whether the C50 was the better frame. I'm sure you will all have your strong opinions.

I personally am dissapointed that Colnago is going down the Far East road, and I also think that the speed with which the models are being changed at the moment is a bit of a rip-off for those who feel the need to have the very latest ride. I don't think things can change as quickly as is being made out.


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## corky

I'm more disappointed ernesto has gone down the integrated headset route, having previously stated that there was no advantage to them. I think wheels need to be stiffer before we need to worry about the headtube/set in flexy front ends. I know my rims rub the brake blocks when huffing up a hill and that's got nothing to do with the head tube area.

i'm also disappointed that there will be no colnago representation in the pro ranks for 09.

Other than that .... good luck to Colnago in 09 !


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## mj3200

*Pro Teams*

Horrified to see your comment about the lack of Colnago teams for '09. I know that Rabobank has switched to Giant, mind you so has Colnago 
;-)

I was looking briefly through the pics I took at the Giro this year. It's a much more provincial race than the tour and there were stacks of Colnagos there. The teams using them were; Tinkoff, CSF Group-Navigare and Milram without looking to deeply in to it. Saw no mention on their web sites to indicate a change of heart for next year.

They need to watch or the could go the way of Gios. From household name when sponsoring to a slack jawed stare from anyone under 35 now when they are mentioned.

Fingers crossed.


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## corky

Milram, are trying desparately to end their contract early and get out of bike racing, lack of German TV coverage to blame. In any case I think they are due to be on FOCUS(a German brand) for 09, certainly not Colnago.

Katusha(formely known as Tinkoff) will be riding Ridley in 2009

Not sure about CSF Navigares


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## fabsroman

Thanks for the response on the Master vs. C50. I started building my C50 up today, but didn't get very far.


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## Cyclingisalive

CLX is build by Giant as the only Colnago. The CX-1 is build by the same Company that Cervelo and Ridley uses. The Pinarello Team have moved ALL their production to China. So if you are looking for an Italian made frame the C50 - EXT P - EXT C - EPS - Master X Light are 100% Italian made.


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## Gnarly 928

corky said:


> I'm more disappointed ernesto has gone down the integrated headset route, having previously stated that there was no advantage to them. I think wheels need to be stiffer before we need to worry about the headtube/set in flexy front ends. I know my rims rub the brake blocks when huffing up a hill and that's got nothing to do with the head tube area.
> 
> Other than that .... good luck to Colnago in 09 !


 Sounds like you need to tighten up your spokes or perhaps look for a stiffer fork.

I recently got onto a frameset with a 'regular' headset after riding all "integrated" ones only for about a season. It really looked strange, that ring down there on the headtube. Seems to me like integrated is a cleaner look.

I have a couple of Ridleys with the 1 1/2" lower headset bearing and they are pretty solid up front. Standing and climbing, you feel very little fork flex. They run the shifter cables right through the headtube above the big bottom headset. Cool looking, but they "buzz" when you ride a chip-seal road surface and are kinda funky to set up properly.

Don Hanson


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## fabsroman

My Zipps flex and the spokes are tightened up to the recommended tension. That is one thing that I hate about those wheels. If I had it all to do over again, I would probably go with Reynolds instead, but the Zipps will work for now. I never thought I would ever see wheel flex, and thought most of the other guys were just BSing when they were talking about it. Kind of like I have never seen frame flex, but I believe others who say that have flexed their frames.

By the way, I have both integrated and non-integrated headsets and when I am riding I never notice either. Further, a clean look doesn't really mean anything if the frame/headset is trashed in 5 years. People put way too much emphasis on looks versus functionality, and I am definitely not trying to start an integrated headset debate here.


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## MERAKMAN

Cyclingisalive said:


> CLX is build by Giant as the only Colnago. The CX-1 is build by the same Company that Cervelo and Ridley uses. The Pinarello Team have moved ALL their production to China. So if you are looking for an Italian made frame the C50 - EXT P - EXT C - EPS - Master X Light are 100% Italian made.



Hi Where did your hear where the CX-1 baby is made? I'd heard that it is made by Giant from two very good sources. Do you have any knowledge on where De Rosa's are made?


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## ciclisto

*taiwan factories.*

any idea why the switch from Giant(CLX) to the other (CX-1) was this an improvement or are the asian places similar in quality.


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## bertoni

ciclisto said:


> any idea why the switch from Giant(CLX) to the other (CX-1) was this an improvement or are the asian places similar in quality.


I don't think Colnago took too kindly to being replaced by Giant for team bike on Rabobank and Milram. Its probable that it was a marriage of convenience initially that outgrew its usefulness for either of them. I would say that at this point Colnago has its own Asian contingent in place, and there is no need for them to rely on any resources from Giant.


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## Cyclingisalive

I was at a Colnago demo at Plan B in Port Orange, FL (Daytona Beach) - the Sales & Product Manager for Colnago/Veltec and during the tech presentation there was no secrecy reg. the frame production. The CX-1 & EPS demo ride was a true experience! Two different frames - but both Colnago's - I need them!

I think DeRosa does some assemly in Italy on their top frames - all tubes used on those are made in Japan.


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## MERAKMAN

bertoni said:


> I don't think Colnago took too kindly to being replaced by Giant for team bike on Rabobank and Milram. Its probable that it was a marriage of convenience initially that outgrew its usefulness for either of them. I would say that at this point Colnago has its own Asian contingent in place, and there is no need for them to rely on any resources from Giant.



I'm not sure why Colnago are not sponsoring Pro teams next year. It may be due to the fact that Colnago seem to be 'down sizing' or saving cash due to Mr Colnago's age. The whole company may be sold to Giant I've heard, who knows whats going on there! My two LBS's are sure that the CX-1 is made by Giant; though I'm not going to loose any sleep about where its made, because I'm sure its a great frame..


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## Cyclingisalive

I think that the reason for not sponsoring any Pro Tour Team is simply the money that is takes - the "take over" of the Rabobank Team has not come at a cheap price for Giant - Colnago and Rabobank have been a Team for 20 years - just look at the money Specialized is spending on the Saxo Bank & Quickstep Team - not to mention the amount of frames needed by each team.
I wonder if the Pinarello fans are discussing the Asian made Pinarello's as much as Colnago fans are discussing the 2 Asian produced Colnago's! At least we have multiple options when it comes to what you want and where it is produced - and it has never been kept a secret, Pinarello does not really stand by where they produce their frames - anything to hide?


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## mj3200

*Team Sponsorship*

Are they sposoring Landbouwkrediet next year? I know they are nothing like Rabobank, but I'd hate there to be nothing at all.


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## Cyclingisalive

Landbouwkrediet is the sponsored Colnago Team next year - on CX-1 & CLX.


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## eff_dee

CLX is kinda useless now, no? Other than an excuse to have another model in the lineup.


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## MERAKMAN

Cyclingisalive said:


> Landbouwkrediet is the sponsored Colnago Team next year - on CX-1 & CLX.



Thats good news can't wait to see the CX-1 on the road!


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## QQUIKM3

*You are correct. . .*



kdub said:


> Bellatisport is an authorized dealer for Colnago. And communication with Andrea has been prompt and clear.


I bought a C50 a few years ago from him, and recently my Wilier Le Roi, and the transaction is flawless. I'll always buy from Bellatisport on frameset buys.


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## fabsroman

I bought my Cristallo in October 2006 and my C50 in October 2008 from Bellatisport. He is great to deal with and both frames are great. Almost even bought a Colnago Active in 2006 after the Cristallo, but I found an Arte frame on ebay for $650 and went with it instead. When I get the chance to visit Italy again, you can bet that I will be swinging through Switzerland to visit Mr. Bellati.


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## bertoni

I feel kind of bad for the CLX. I have read a lot of good things about that bike, and I appreciate Colnagos attempt to make it more affordable than their other models. It probably needs to be a little cheaper yet to compete with similar bikes out there.I think they could be a great bike for someone if the price is right.


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