# Difficulty reaching brakes in drops



## jumpin_joe (Jul 26, 2004)

I have to strain to reach my brakes and even shift, while riding in the drops. I don't have small hands, so I'm a bit confused. Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone out there can suggest a quality bar that might put the brakes/shifters in a closer position. DEDA claims that the Newton brings the controls 13mm closer. Does anyone have a better suggestion? Thanks, in advance, for all constructive ideas.

Joe


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## srf (Jun 28, 2004)

Maybe the levers are located a little too high on the bar?


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

jumpin_joe said:


> I have to strain to reach my brakes and even shift, while riding in the drops. I don't have small hands, so I'm a bit confused. Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone out there can suggest a quality bar that might put the brakes/shifters in a closer position. DEDA claims that the Newton brings the controls 13mm closer. Does anyone have a better suggestion? Thanks, in advance, for all constructive ideas.
> 
> Joe


I (and others) have measured many bars and none move the levers closer. If you don't have small hands, then something is wrong.

TF


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## rjcamsr (Mar 3, 2004)

The brakes may be located too high on the bars. Or the bars may be rotated up, causing the brakes to be difficult to reach in the drops.


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## bimini (Jul 2, 2003)

*Could be how you are riding in the drops*

To make full use of the drops your hands are not on the very end of the bars, but on the bars where it is starting to turn upward or even in the middle of this curve. The goal is to get your forearms level with the road and your head and back as low as possible with the road to minimize drag. I don't think anyone can reach the brakes while holding onto the end of the drops. This positon is used when you are relaxing a bit or sometimes in sprinting. I always move my hands forward into the curve when things start to get intense and when brakes may be needed.



rjcamsr said:


> The brakes may be located too high on the bars. Or the bars may be rotated up, causing the brakes to be difficult to reach in the drops.


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## temoore (Mar 9, 2004)

Many bars have a defined area for being in the drops that is angled for comfort. I ride w/ 3TTT More bars, and I can reach the brakes w/ small hands when in the drops. I have the levers up a little higher than many would so that my wrists are not bent when on the hoods, and I can still reach the levers in the drops. See attached photo.
If braking is your main concern, you can also help the situation out by making sure the brake cable is looser rather than tight. By this I mean that you loosen it so you have to pull lever closer to bar to engage brakes. After discussion w/ several, I prefer more play in the cable than I used to. I find that it is easire to use the brakes when in the drops, and also I find that if I need to apply the brakes quickly, I am less likely to lock the rear wheel when I have more play. This is obviously a subjective choice, however.


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## Cory (Jan 29, 2004)

*Usually solve that by moving the levers a bit.*

A couple of other posts have alluded to this, but here's a specific recommendation: Untape the bars and slide your levers up and down until you find a comfortable spot. You might also check the angle of the bars themselves. For a starting position, try rotating them until the drop portion, the part that points back, aims at your rear brake. Depending on the bars, that should make the upper part, from the bend to the levers, nearly horizontal. Adjust from there until it's comfortable, then move the levers until you can reach them. Works for my wife, who's 5'1" and has hands the size of Barbie's.


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

temoore said:


> Many bars have a defined area for being in the drops that is angled for comfort. I ride w/ 3TTT More bars, and I can reach the brakes w/ small hands when in the drops. I have the levers up a little higher than many would so that my wrists are not bent when on the hoods, and I can still reach the levers in the drops. See attached photo.
> If braking is your main concern, you can also help the situation out by making sure the brake cable is looser rather than tight. By this I mean that you loosen it so you have to pull lever closer to bar to engage brakes. After discussion w/ several, I prefer more play in the cable than I used to. I find that it is easire to use the brakes when in the drops, and also I find that if I need to apply the brakes quickly, I am less likely to lock the rear wheel when I have more play. This is obviously a subjective choice, however.



I can't find their site. Do they have one similar in aluminum? 77mm is 3mm les than any I have measured, but 3mm isn't much.

TF


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## jumpin_joe (Jul 26, 2004)

*Still not adding up...*

Like I said, I don't have overly small hands (wear a medium glove). I have already tried adjusting where I mount the controls. I have been able to get it into a position where I can reach more comfortably in the drops, but it feels AWEFUL when riding on the hoods. I know that there are wedges that actually bring the brake levers in closer to the bar with shimano, but I ride campy and have not heard of any similar gadgets. I've spoken with several bike shops and they have always said that my only option is to purchase different bars. I know that there job is to sell me things, which is why I'm posing this question here on this forum. This being said, none of the suggestions I've read thus far have done the trick. Am I really stuck with changing bars? If so, what is this I have read about all bars having the same reach regardless of manufacturer claims?

Thanks for all of the replies thus far, hopefully these ideas will help someone else out there with a similar issue. I'll keep reading in hopes of a solution that works for me...

Joe


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

jumpin_joe said:


> Like I said, I don't have overly small hands (wear a medium glove). I have already tried adjusting where I mount the controls. I have been able to get it into a position where I can reach more comfortably in the drops, but it feels AWEFUL when riding on the hoods. I know that there are wedges that actually bring the brake levers in closer to the bar with shimano, but I ride campy and have not heard of any similar gadgets. I've spoken with several bike shops and they have always said that my only option is to purchase different bars. I know that there job is to sell me things, which is why I'm posing this question here on this forum. This being said, none of the suggestions I've read thus far have done the trick. Am I really stuck with changing bars? If so, what is this I have read about all bars having the same reach regardless of manufacturer claims?
> 
> Thanks for all of the replies thus far, hopefully these ideas will help someone else out there with a similar issue. I'll keep reading in hopes of a solution that works for me...
> 
> Joe


OK, we now have information.

First - bars will not help.

Second - The problem may be that you are in the drops with your wrist bent so that if you open your hand your finger would stick out sideways. Go into the drops like you are shaking hands - keep you wrist straight. You have to work on the muscles, especially with smaller hands.

Third - Here is how to modify Campy levers for a shorter front-to-lever distance courtesy of an old C-40 post:
-------------------------------------------------------
Posted by: C-40 
Dec-09-03, 05:53 PM
"Short reach Campy brake levers..."

Since I had no luck posting the complete instructions for modifying Ergo levers to reduce their reach, I'll try again. Hopefully, all 8 steps will show up. 
I’ve got short fingers and always struggled to reach the brake levers with Campy Ergo levers. I tried several different bars, but found that none reduced the reach more than 3mm at best. I improved the situation by setting the brake cables fairly loose. This allows some movement of the lever, to get a better grasp, without creating any braking action. While this was an improvement, I found it uncomfortable to partially compress the levers for long periods as required on technical mountain descents. I’ve found a fairly easy method to solve this problem. 
The Campy levers have a lot more travel than necessary to operate the brakes. Before starting this modification, adjust the brake cables so the levers are only 1/8” to 1/4" away from the bars with the brakes fully applied. Just don’t set the cables so loose that the levers hit the bars and can’t apply full braking power! 
Campy brake levers use the quick release pin (in the lever) as a lever stop. To bring the levers closer to the bars, the area behind the pin-rest merely needs to be “built-up”. I used 5-minute epoxy glue to build up the pin-rest area on the ergo lever body. Once this modification is done the new resting position will be the same as when the levers were compressed about 1/2 inch. If you object to the “look” of the lever with the top edge slightly protruding in front of the body, then don’t consider this modification. Personally, I think most folks would have to look closely to notice the difference. For me, the improvement was well worth the effort and I don’t object to the look of the lever in the resting position. 
The required tools and materials to build-up the ergo lever body with epoxy are: 
120 grit sandpaper, miniature sanding drum 
acetone or lacquer thinner 
masking tape 
5-minute epoxy glue 
toothpicks or jewelers screwdriver (to apply epoxy) 
rags or paper towels 
small electric drill or “Dremel” tool 
single-edge razor blade, Xacto knife, or utility knife 
1. Push the brake release pin into the released position. 
2. Clean the area where the quick release pin rests with acetone to remove any dirt or grease. 
3. Place a small piece of masking tape on the brake lever to cover the area adjacent to the pin-rest, to avoid getting glue on the lever. Additional masking can be done on the lever body to prevent adhesive from contacting the lever body, if desired. 
4. Lightly sand the pin-rest area to provide a rough surface for good adhesion of the epoxy. This can be done by rolling up a small piece of 120-grit sandpaper to the approximate diameter of the pin and sanding by hand. The rolled-up sandpaper can also be placed in a drill to sand the area quickly (but gently). Those who own a Dremel tool may have a miniature sanding drum than would work even better. I also chose to drill a very shallow 1/16 inch hole in the center of the pin-rest area to create a “post” from epoxy that may improve adhesion of the built-up material. This may be overkill, but it was simple to do and only took about a minute. 
5. When all the above preparation is complete, the bike must be stood up so the pin-rest area is pointing straight up (if the ergo levers are mounted on the bike). If the bike is mounted in a workstand , this is easy. 
6. Mix a small amount of 5-minute epoxy and apply a large “drop” to the bottom of each of the pin-rest areas. Use a toothpick or jewelers screwdriver to apply the glue. Try to keep the glue away from the brake lever, but if it flows into it, don’t worry. The masking tape on the brake lever will prevent the glue from attaching to the lever. With 5-minute glue you have to work quickly or the glue will get tacky and string from the applicator, creating a mess. Do not allow glue to run onto the outside of the lever body. If it does, use a rag wetted with a small amount of acetone to wipe it off before it hardens. 
7. After the glue has hardened (at least 30 minutes) check to see if glue appears stuck to the masking tape on the brake levers, or has run into the small gap between the lever and the body. If it has, use an Xacto knife or double edge razor blade to carefully cut a gap between the lever and the body. It’s best to do this before the glue sets really hard. When this is complete, the brake lever should be free to move without disturbing the built-up epoxy on the pin-rest. 
8. After the epoxy has cured more completely (2 hours), push the brake release pin into it’s normal position and check the lever position when at rest. If enough epoxy was applied the lever should protrude in front of the lever body (where “10 SPEED” or “CARBON-BB SYSTEM” is written). Measuring from the front of the lever body to the front edge of the brake lever, the protrusion should be much more than 1/8 inch, otherwise the total travel of the brake lever will be reduced too much. This amount reduces the reach to the brake lever from the drops by about 1/2 inch. The amount of lever protrusion can be much less if a full 1/2 inch reduction in reach is not needed. I use a 1-inch diameter dowel rod as a gage to place between the bars and the shift lever. This is the absolute minimum distance that I would recommend to leave sufficient travel for proper brake operation. If too little epoxy was applied, the levers may not be as close to the bars as desired. If this is the case, repeat steps 4-7 to add thickness. If too much epoxy was applied, use the rolled sandpaper, mounted in the drill, or a miniature sanding drum in a Dremel tool, to sand away some of the epoxy. Be sure to remask the brake lever to prevent scarring the lever during the sanding process. The sanding process should be done slowly to avoid removing too much material and having to repeat steps 4-7. On the second pair that I modified, I got one side sanded to the proper depth quickly, but the other side took about 8 iterations of the sanding and checking process to get it match the other lever. It was still faster than reapplying more epoxy (steps 4-7).
-------------------------------------------------------------

TF


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## temoore (Mar 9, 2004)

TurboTurtle said:


> I can't find their site. Do they have one similar in aluminum? 77mm is 3mm les than any I have measured, but 3mm isn't much.
> 
> TF


http://www.3ttt.com/ing/fr_storia.htm
They have two sections on bars, Ergo and Road Racing. Many different selections, most w/ diagrams.


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## jumpin_joe (Jul 26, 2004)

Thanks Turbo Turtle!

Exactly the sort of mod I've been trying to find. I'll repost my experience on this thread.


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## kai-ming (Oct 3, 2002)

*Super glue*



jumpin_joe said:


> Thanks Turbo Turtle!
> 
> Exactly the sort of mod I've been trying to find. I'll repost my experience on this thread.


With the inspiration of C40, I used super glue to build up the pin rest area. I don't like the look of the lever top edge protruding too much from the front of the body. My hands are small with proportional long fingers, I only need to move the levers something like ~5mm closer to the bar. Adhersion of super glue is very strong, you have to take great care not to let it mesh up with the lever, pivot and hinges. Use a thin card to separate the lever and the body in the operation as shown in the photo. Put small drop of super glue to the area, spread the glue evenly to the area with the point of a tooth pick ( the small sharp stick we chinese like to pick our teeth ), if too much glue has been applied, use the point of dry wooden tooth picks to absorb and remove the glue. Let the glue completely dry, I would say a few hours if the glue is thick. Try and see if the build up is enough, if not, repeat the above procedure to put more layer(s) until you are satisfied. You are doing a tiny bit at a time. The result is great.


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## jnichols959 (Jan 22, 2004)

*bars can make a difference*

i'm guessing that the whole "bars don't make a difference" claim is based on setting the position of the bars and the position of the levers on the bars up in a "standard" way between different models of bars. while this is the only reasonable approach if your goal is to measure the reach differences between different bars, it may not be a realistic restriction and when ignored may lead to significant differences in "reach" to the levers while in the drops.

my setup and experience with two different bars is a good example. When I put on a new bar, i set up the rotation of the bar in the stem so that i'm comfortable when I'm in the drops and then I place the levers on the bar so that the angle of the levers relative to vertical is the same as it's always been for me.

one common setup is to install the bar so the bottom of the drop is parallel to the ground and then place the lever on the bar so the bottom tip of the lever is in line with a horizontal line created by the bottom of the drops. this has never worked for me, hence the strategy above.

the end result is that when going from a 2003 Ritchey WCS bar to a 2003 Deda Newton Shallow drop bar (the non-anatomic bend) the reach is noticably different. not only do i feel closer to the levers when in the drops on the deda but my hands are more comfortable in this postion on the deda.

i'm not suggesting my method will work for anyone else - or touting the deda over the ritchey for anyone but me. i'm just saying that in the real world, where bar rotation and lever position may come down to personal preference, different bars can have effectively different reaches.


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

jnichols959 said:


> i'm guessing that the whole "bars don't make a difference" claim is based on setting the position of the bars and the position of the levers on the bars up in a "standard" way between different models of bars. while this is the only reasonable approach if your goal is to measure the reach differences between different bars, it may not be a realistic restriction and when ignored may lead to significant differences in "reach" to the levers while in the drops.
> 
> my setup and experience with two different bars is a good example. When I put on a new bar, i set up the rotation of the bar in the stem so that i'm comfortable when I'm in the drops and then I place the levers on the bar so that the angle of the levers relative to vertical is the same as it's always been for me.
> 
> ...


Measure it. From the back of the drop to the front of the lever. See the illistration above. If it is significantly less than 80mm, I will order one tomorrow.

TF

TF


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## J24 (Oct 8, 2003)

*Agree with jnichols959*

Only speaking from my experience after trying 3T primas & morphes, Cinelli Giro and Modolo bars, none of which I found brought my Campy levers as close as the Deda 215 Belgian drop (non-anatomic) which I feel brings the levers closer in. 

I've also been told by some experienced racers who use campy that in addition to Dedas anatomic and non-anatomic, that the Ritchey WCS traditional bend and most of the ITM bars work better for Campy.

Their opinion is that its apparently due to a tighter radius of the bend where the top of bar transitions into drops.

Hopes this helps


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## jnichols959 (Jan 22, 2004)

TurboTurtle said:


> Measure it. From the back of the drop to the front of the lever. See the illistration above. If it is significantly less than 80mm, I will order one tomorrow.
> 
> TF
> 
> TF


I must have failed to communicate my point. The illustration for the more bar above shows the measurement from a certain point on the bar to a certain point on the lever with (as I mentioned) the bottom of the drops being level and the bottom of the lever lining up with the bottom of the drops.

My point was that the real world reach from your hand to the point at which your finger goes around the lever varies depending on how your levers are placed on the bar, the roation of the bars, the size of your hands, where your hands fit on that particular bar, which finger(s) you use to reach the bar, etc., etc.

I tried to communicate that when you use a consistent measurement (that's not necessarily related to where your hands are or where you pull on the brake lever) like you're asking me to do, there may be very little difference in reach between bars. But this is not necessarily an accurate measurement of what you'll feel as "reach" when you install the bars/levers the way you want and go out riding.

So, I have no desire to measure from the back of the bend on the bar to a point on the front of the lever such that the line of that measurement is perpindicular to the front of the lever - because that's not a meaningful measurement of reach for me. If that measurement is what works for you in predicting reach - or you just wanted to do some theoretically consistent measurement between different bars, more power to you. My point was that this type of measurement may not be a good predictor of actual reach for all people.

Cheers,
Jeff


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## jumpin_joe (Jul 26, 2004)

*Thanks again*

Thanks again gang. As always, there seem to be two ends of the spectrum regarding the bar reach debate (good thing too, as there is no such thing as a one sided debate). I was able to use the modification method outline earlier in the post, to achieve a MUCH improved lever distance. Fortunately, this was a $0 fix for me (well actually probably $0.03 for the epoxy). 

Thanks, as well, for all the advice regarding different bars. From my point of view, it seems logical that some bars would offer distinct reach advantages. We all agree that different bars put our hands/wrists in different positions. It is only logical that different bars would therefore change the angle of our hands in the drops, as a result altering the angle of your peak reach.

Bar reach debate aside, I no longer feel like I am jeopardizing my safety in the drops. I drew enormously from this thread, and that's what it's all about.

Happy trails!
Joe


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