# Clipless Pedal and Ankle Pain



## kontradictions (Jan 23, 2012)

Hi guys, I recently started using my Shinamo 105 pedals and it's causing excruciating pain in my ankle so much so that I'm having a hard time walking. I've tried turning the tension to the lowest, adjusting my seat height for the added height of the cleat, and playing around with the cleat position on the shoe so my feet sit comfortably when I'm clipped in.

After reading around a bit, I learned that a set of pedals with a bit more float is usually recommended to those with knee problems. I was wondering if something with more float would also be beneficial to my ankle. 

Thank you so much in advance for your time.


----------



## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

What was your pedal/shoe setup and experience prior to going to the 1015 pedals and how did that work for you? What's different between your prior setup and the new setup?


----------



## kontradictions (Jan 23, 2012)

looigi said:


> What was your pedal/shoe setup and experience prior to going to the 1015 pedals and how did that work for you? What's different between your prior setup and the new setup?


Thank you for the response. 

The 105s are my first clipless setup.


----------



## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Hey, good. What were you riding before that and how much were you riding? Sounds like you were riding flat pedals. Was that with or without toe clips? What kind of shoes were you using?

When riding with flat pedals, were your toes pointed inward (pigeon toed), straight ahead or outward (duck foot)? What part of your foot did you use on the pedals, toes, ball of the foot, instep?

Do you tend to tilt you sole outward or inward (valgus/varus)?

Basically, if using clipless is positioning your feet differently that what you're used to it could lead to problems, and/or take a while to accommodate to.


----------



## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Sounds like you need to set your cleats up differently. My initial thought, judging by your pain, is that you have them too far forward and (possibly) too far in towards your instep. Sit on the edge of a table and check out your natural angle of dangle to determine the direction of the cleat in order to get the correct shoe position relative to straight ahead. Each foot may be different.

There are lots of articles around on how to adjust cleats.


----------



## kontradictions (Jan 23, 2012)

looigi said:


> Hey, good. What were you riding before that and how much were you riding? Sounds like you were riding flat pedals. Was that with or without toe clips? What kind of shoes were you using?
> 
> When riding with flat pedals, were your toes pointed inward (pigeon toed), straight ahead or outward (duck foot)? What part of your foot did you use on the pedals, toes, ball of the foot, instep?
> 
> ...


I ride 13 miles on a daily basis using flat pedals and running shoes :blush2:

I think I'm slightly pigeon toed while riding but I do move my feet around a lot when pedaling with the pedal between the ball of my feet and instep.


albert owen said:


> Sounds like you need to set your cleats up differently. My initial thought, judging by your pain, is that you have them too far forward and (possibly) too far in towards your instep. Sit on the edge of a table and check out your natural angle of dangle to determine the direction of the cleat in order to get the correct shoe position relative to straight ahead. Each foot may be different.
> 
> There are lots of articles around on how to adjust cleats.


Gotcha. Thank you 

Thank you guys for the advice, it was really helpful. Once my ankle starts feeling better, I'll try and tweak my cleats again.


----------



## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

This may be completely wrong from a pro fitter's viewpoint, so keep in mind it's just my personal suggestion. You mentioned raising seat to compensate for cleat stack height. In the past when resuming cycling after a long absence, I remember my ankles hurt and I felt like I had the seat a bit too high and/or too far back. So I gradually lowered it and moved forward (to just slightly behind KOPS). My subjective feeling is I'm doing less ankling now, which personally feels better to me. Again I'm not a racer, more of a moderate speed rider, so I'm definitely not generating max power: I'm going for comfort on medium-distance recreational outings.


----------



## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

OK. Here's my SWAG (I am not a physiologist, therapist, doctor, or "pro fitter" (whatever that is)). With the clipless setup you have, you're trying to roll your ankle outward which would stress and cause pain on front outside portion of the ankle. This could be caused by the cleat (foot) angle, Q factor (essentially the width of your stance on the bike) and or pedaling style, perhaps influenced by weak VMOs. I prescribe setting the cleat angle so that you're slightly toe out, perhaps increasing Q factor, and an exercise program to strengthen your VMOs. 

What ever you do, don't try to work through the pain. Many types of pain are a sign of something wrong and trying to work through it could lead to further or more serious injury. If it's a matter of development and physiological adaptation, plan rides that stop short of the pain developing and see if you can gradually increase the length of the ride, perhaps by 10% after 3 or 4 rides, without getting pain.


----------



## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

Bill2 said:


> So I gradually lowered it and moved forward (to just slightly behind KOPS). My subjective feeling is I'm doing less ankling now, which personally feels better to me.


 Are there books you would recommend that teaches high performance bike setup and riding position? For example, I don't know what KOPS mean, so I better read the right books first.


----------



## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

When you have "excruciating pain" in your ankle, or anywhere else, you need to be diagnosed by a Physiotherapist. You can't get a diagnosis through the internet. Not from anyone. My physiotherapist video recorded me riding on rollers and spotted a few abnormal things - and prescribed the course of treatment to correct the issues. Don't try to fix this yourself as you might take yourself in the wrong direction, waste time and make matters worse.


----------



## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Mike T. said:


> When you have "excruciating pain" in your ankle, or anywhere else, you need to be diagnosed by a Physiotherapist. ....Don't try to fix this yourself as you might take yourself in the wrong direction, waste time and make matters worse.


Spoilsport. I was hoping he'd follow my "prescription" and I'd get to see if I'm right. If he does see a physiotherapist, hopefully he'll report back so we can see how near or far off base we were.


----------



## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

looigi said:


> I was hoping he'd follow my "prescription" and I'd get to see if I'm right. If he does see a physiotherapist, hopefully he'll report back so we can see how near or far off base we were.


Why yours and not someone else's guess?


----------



## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

myhui said:


> Are there books you would recommend that teaches high performance bike setup and riding position? For example, I don't know what KOPS mean, so I better read the right books first.


KOPS is "knee over pedal spindle" and refers to positioning the saddle so that a plumb line dropped from the bony protrusion on the front of the knee hits the center of the pedal axle (cranks horizontal). KOPS is a decent starting point for saddle position with the range being +1 to -3 cm (farther forward for spinners and farther back for mashers).


----------



## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

looigi said:


> Spoilsport. I was hoping he'd follow my "prescription" and I'd get to see if I'm right. If he does see a physiotherapist, hopefully he'll report back so we can see how near or far off base we were.


Agreed- I would like to hear how the OP's problem turns out and what fixed it. Mike's absolutely right- if you continue getting excruciating pain you need to see a doctor.


----------



## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

Never heard of this. Typical problem is with knees. Agree with the suggestions of a professional bike fit and/or seeing a good physical therapist. Maybe you take a little time off the bike and see if the ankle bothers you less as well. No sense in aggravating a condition.


----------



## kontradictions (Jan 23, 2012)

Thank you so much for your help, guys. 

I went ahead and tried repositioning the cleats and it did help alleviate some of the tension in my ankle while peddling but it didn't feel right. There was still a weird pressure on my outer ankle. 

looigi hit the nail on the head on this one. I took off my pedals and threw on my flat pedals and went for a slow ride on my trainer and noticed that my feet stayed parallel to the bike on the downward stroke but naturally wanted to pivot outwards on the upward stroke. Apparently, the Shimano 105s weren't too happy with this.

I picked up some Speedplay X5s from my local bike shop today, got them installed and went for a short ride on the trainer and it felt absolutely amazing. I almost forgot that my feet were snapped onto the pedals.

Thank you so much for your concern, Mike. I really appreciate it. My initial plan was, indeed, to see a doctor if I cannot resolve the issue myself. I'm a bit of a sissy so there's no chance of me pushing myself too far. :blush2:

Again, I really appreciate all the help and insight. Thank you so much!


----------



## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

I went through the same routine you did, and I switched back to cage pedals with toe strap after a season with Speedplay.

Just a slight shift in foot position from one to the next pedal stroke really helps, and I like the added freedom of not fastening the straps too tightly so I can raise the bottom of the shoes off the pedals occasionally when I'm soft pedaling and trying to recuperate after a sprint.


----------



## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

kontradictions said:


> Thank you so much for your help, guys.
> 
> I went ahead and tried repositioning the cleats and it did help alleviate some of the tension in my ankle while peddling but it didn't feel right. There was still a weird pressure on my outer ankle.
> 
> ...


That's good news- glad to hear the new pedals fixed it. Now have fun!


----------

