# What is the difference between Masters Divisions vs CAT's?



## Rugergundog (Apr 2, 2011)

Im 37 racing CAT5 right now and really looking forward to moving out to CAT4.

What just browsing some race results and realized there is a Masters 35+

Can anyone explain the criteria and or differences of moving into Masters vs CAT4. Obviously i understand the age part of it; but ability wise how is one measured a "masters"

Thanks


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

I've raced 5s, 4's, Masters 4-5, Cat 3s, and Masters 1-2-3. 

IMO. Masters Cat 4-5 is a little easier than the 4's. High end power is a little lower, but the Masters are better racers. More team and race tactics, and safer. 

The Masters 1-2-3 is MUCH harder than the 3's. They have more powerful engines and tactically, they know what to do to obliterate the peleton.


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

According to USA Cycling (for the road) non-pros who are racing age 30 or older are masters. Promoters typically tailor "masters" races to be narrower than that, by designating an age range (e.g., 35+), and often by designating particular racing categories (e.g., 35+ 1/2/3). You need to look at the flyer/web for any given race to know what's being offered, but you may find depending on where you live that 35+ 4/5 is a common option. "Usually" 1/2/3 races together in the younger masters fields (e.g., 35+). If you do see a 35+ 1/2/3/4 race, keep in mind that you'd be racing against cat 1 racers who aren't all that old; they are not only more experienced, they're much faster than the 4s of any age. In my district, it seems like (to generalize) masters 3s can enjoy racing masters 1/2/3 crits or flat, easy road races, but get crushed in hilly or windy road races.

Edited to add: So to make it clear, everyone has a racing category AND is in an "age" group, whether it's juniors, elite (19-29 plus 30+ racers disqualified from being masters because, for example, they're racing as pros) or masters.


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## Rugergundog (Apr 2, 2011)

So let me get this straight.......as a 37 year old CAT4 racer I could also opt enter into Masters divisions as long as its designated Masters 1,2,3,...down to 4.??

I would NOT be elligible to enter a Masters 1-3....right?


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

Rugergundog said:


> as a 37 year old CAT4 racer, I would NOT be elligible to enter a Masters 1-3....right?


Correct.


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## tsunayoshi (Dec 3, 2009)

I'm also 37, and am waiting to get my 4 so I can race in the Masters classes...guys our age are less likely to do stupid things on the road since we don't heal quite as fast as those spring chickens, plus we all have to work on Monday.

However, the 4/5 masters in our area are pretty damn fast, a good chunk of them probably qualify for Cat 3 upgrades but stick in the 4's until they are forced.


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## Speedi Pig (Apr 18, 2004)

It obviously depends on who shows up, but many masters races are harder than cat. 3. These guys are fit, fast, and mean (at least on the bike). A lot of the strongest guy here are 45+ and still competitive in P12.

Many have been riding and racing bikes for 15 to 20 years so they know right where the ragged edge on bike handling is. Granted, they tend not to take as many risks in races (wives, kids, jobs, mortgages, etc.), but are you comfortable out on the ragged edge with them?


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## the_doctor (Dec 27, 2008)

Speedi Pig said:


> It obviously depends on who shows up, but many masters races are harder than cat. 3. These guys are fit, fast, and mean (at least on the bike). A lot of the strongest guy here are 45+ and still competitive in P12.
> 
> Many have been riding and racing bikes for 15 to 20 years so they know right where the ragged edge on bike handling is. Granted, they tend not to take as many risks in races (wives, kids, jobs, mortgages, etc.), but are you comfortable out on the ragged edge with them?


The M35+ or M45+ fields seem to be the more exciting fields to watch around here. They have former pros with national titles in those fields. Super strong 1,2's seem to succeed in riding both the M35 and M45 fields at the various races.


Bill


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## Rugergundog (Apr 2, 2011)

thanks for the feedback. I ask as the CAT4 races are HUGE in my area while the masters fields are not quite so jammed full.

Im 37 with only one summer of riding under my belt, old dude getting into this late in the game. While im confident of a move to CAT4 i would like to move to CAT3 one day...but we will have to wait and see if i can pull that one off.


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## Sonomasnap (Feb 10, 2010)

A few things. You might Cat up to Cat3 but don't be so sure. Depending on where you race and the field sizes it is no easy thing. I would say that guys that start at your age or older only 20% ever Cat up beyond 4.

Regarding masters, in most areas you have to be a Cat4 or higher. The races are full of Cat1/2/3 and ex Pro. Very strong fields. 50+ guys that will eat your lunch. Don't take anything for granted.


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## cropduster (May 10, 2011)

your chances of winning a cat 4 race are much higher than a masters race because masters are typically a lot faster and a lot smarter hence they know how to use tactics to defeat people who are not as savvy and shed those who are not in good form early on in a race.


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## AdamM (Jul 9, 2008)

> I ask as the CAT4 races are HUGE in my area while the masters fields are not quite so jammed full


Esp in crits, the smaller field size typically makes for a much faster race. Almost no pedal-brake-pedal through the corners.


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## baldmanrunning (Aug 12, 2008)

Okay, so not to hijack the thread from the OP, but here's my situation:

I have my first stage race coming up this weekend. I'm registered as a Cat 5 (35+). They're only splitting the Cat 5 field into age groups if there are more than 50 per UCA rules, which state that your Cat 5 field can't exceed 50. If there's less than 50 Cat 5s, they'll all be together.

That said, there's also a Masters 35+ 1/2/3 and a Masters 35+ 4/5. I was thinking about switching to the Masters 35+ 4/5 group. The road race is one lap longer (3 vs 4 of a 9 mile loop) and the crit is 10 minutes longer (30 vs 40 minutes) for the Masters. What would YOU do?

By the way, I'm 36 (37 on Saturday!) and have raced a few D flite Crits, and done pretty well.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

baldmanrunning said:


> Okay, so not to hijack the thread from the OP, but here's my situation:
> 
> I have my first stage race coming up this weekend. I'm registered as a Cat 5 (35+). They're only splitting the Cat 5 field into age groups if there are more than 50 per UCA rules, which state that your Cat 5 field can't exceed 50. If there's less than 50 Cat 5s, they'll all be together.
> 
> ...


Worked my from a 5 to a 2 and have raced a lot of masters races. Comparing masters to cat 5 I'd say race masters as you can count it toward your cat 4 experience and the race should be a bit less squirrelly. The only aspect about the masters 35+ fields is they can sometimes be small but that is totally regional. If it is a small field there's a better chance the stronger guys will be able to break which can be a bummer unless you are in the break.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

baldmanrunning said:


> Okay, so not to hijack the thread from the OP, but here's my situation:
> 
> I have my first stage race coming up this weekend. I'm registered as a Cat 5 (35+). They're only splitting the Cat 5 field into age groups if there are more than 50 per UCA rules, which state that your Cat 5 field can't exceed 50. If there's less than 50 Cat 5s, they'll all be together.
> 
> ...


In your situation I'd race the Masters 35+ 4/5 race instead of the Cat 5 race. There will likely be a smaller field, the racing will be a bit safer and the competition "Should" be a little closer. In the CAT 5 field there is always a separation between the top 5-10 guys and the rest of the field, where that doesn't happen as much in a masters 4/5 race.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

One other things. In our area (Mid-Atlantic), you do not gain upgrade points by racing Masters races. So if you are say a Cat.3 trying to upgrade to Cat.2, and race only Masters field races, you'll gain no upgrade points.


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

nightfend said:


> One other things. In our area (Mid-Atlantic), you do not gain upgrade points by racing Masters races. So if you are say a Cat.3 trying to upgrade to Cat.2, and race only Masters field races, you'll gain no upgrade points.


Are you sure? It doesn't seem to say so at the MABRA site, which refers one to USA Cycling. USA Cycling's rules only explicitly say that there is a limit (10 points) as to how many points can be counted for the 2-->1 upgrade.


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## fast ferd (Jan 30, 2009)

Tons of fast masters racers here in SouthernCal. Some will race their 45+ category in the morning and come back a couple hours later for the 35+. I get dropped in masters; never in Cat 4/5. And you rarely see sketchy riding in masters, from my experience at least. Pick your poison.


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