# Lightest "modern" steel cross frame???



## Erik_A (Sep 14, 2008)

*Lightweight "modern" steel cross frame???*

Does anyone have recommendations for a fairly lightweight "modern" steel cross frame, that comes stock with a 60cm top-tube? I have given up on looking for a carbon frame that fits, and since I am 220 lbs - it wouldn't matter much anyway!


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## roseyscot (Jan 30, 2005)

talk to Mike Zanconato. Custom TIG welded steel. He can obviously make you something that fits. I'm 6'1" and mine rides like a dream. With an Enve front fork and a Chorus/Centaur build, it is right at 17.5 lbs.

Zanconato-splash


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## Erik_A (Sep 14, 2008)

Interesting... I have loved my 63cm 1995 Bianchi Veloce road bike with Dedacciai Zero Uno tubing which rides great for my size - but is not exceptionally light. "Deddi Zero Uno - Heavier gauge set designed for exceptionally sturdy frames. Large selection of round tubes." - I guess, I want a well crafted steel frame that is lighter than a Surly Cross Check. Being almost 40 yrs old - I appreciate the "give" of steel over aluminum; but I could be wrong - especially for a race bike.



> At your weight the last thing I'd want from a steel bike is low weight. You'll need something strong. If you want strong and light steel is probably your worst choice in frame material. Have you tried any modern aluminum frames? I have two scandium bikes that blow away my previous steel frames. They're much lighter and stiffer and have a smoother ride.
> If you really want steel and have the bucks any custom builder could build you something "light" but I bet they try to steer you away from that idea.


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## Erik_A (Sep 14, 2008)

Has anyone raced a Masi CX or a 2009-2011Trek Gary/ Fisher - Presidio or Erwin framesets - they seem to be decent steel frames for someone my weight.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

Erik_A said:


> Has anyone raced a Masi CX or a 2009-2011Trek Gary/ Fisher - Presidio or Erwin framesets - they seem to be decent steel frames for someone my weight.


masi CX is a tank. similar to a surly.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

at your size you don't want to go too light
if you are trying to save $ call Curtlo otherwise Zanconato, Soulcraft, Sycip will all set you up


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## Erik_A (Sep 14, 2008)

The Civilian Vive Le Roi looks like the best option so far:
Cyclocross - Civilian - Civilian
Review of Civilian Vive Le Roi Cyclocross Bike - Competitive Cyclist


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

Gunnar? Priced between the Taiwan boat anchors and the $$$$ custom jobs. 

http://gunnarbikes.com/site/bikes/cross-hairs/


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## NextTime (Oct 13, 2007)

Google "Ritchey Swiss Cross".


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Swiss Cross = awesome bike*



NextTime said:


> Google "Ritchey Swiss Cross".


but I don't think they make one big enough


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## sonic_W (Sep 2, 2008)

speedvagen for custom, fixie inc makes one too


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## gordy748 (Feb 11, 2007)

Branford Bikes in Seattle has a Pegoretti Duende CX bike on sale, it's pretty big too.


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## Erik_A (Sep 14, 2008)

Well, I switched gears trying to justify a higher end/ or custom (Reynolds 853 ect) steel frame vs a 4130 (welded in Taiwan) frame that wouldn't be much better than the Cross Check that I just sold.

I went ahead and bought a NOS: 60cm 2009 Cannondale CAAD9 CX9 cyclocross frame. The geometry is exactly what I would have ordered custom: a 600mm top-tube and 200mm head-tube. I will install a All-City Nature Boy steel fork instead of carbon due to my heavy 220 lb body weight. Many have mentioned that the CAAD9 have a great ride quality, so I can't wait to find out. 

I am fairly confident that other than carbon, this is the lightest frame that would safely hold up to my weight.


2009 - 60cm - CAAD9 GEOMETRY:

Horizontal Top Tube 600mm
Seat Tube Angle 73 deg
Head Tube Angle 73 deg
Chainstay Length 432mm
BB Height 290mm
Wheelbase 1057mm
Trail 59mm
Standover Height 876mm
Head Tube Length 200mm

Thanks again guys for all of your advice - it came down to the geometry and the fact that I couldn't afford to get what I want in a steel frame presently. Eventually, I may sell all of my bikes and get a custom frame and just use different wheelsets for cross and road. Someday...

The Gunnar was the closest geometry and steel quality, but I got the C-dale for less than 1/2 (almost 1/3) the cost - and honestly that helped sway the decision. I have heard that the C-dale CAAD9 with the wishbone rear-end makes for a fairly forgiving/ but stiff ride - not quite steel smooth though.

I am not saying that the geometry is better than the Gunnar though, I would likely swap the C-dale for a Gunnar if I found a 62 or 64 used! In the meantime I will likely use a FSA BB30 adaptor and convert the bottom bracket to threaded to save cost and use my existing crankset. (anyone know if the C-dale takes a 68mm or 72mm adapter? http://www.fullspeedahead.com/products/449/BB30-Threaded-Adapter-68mm )


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Erik_A said:


> Well, I switched gears trying to justify a higher end/ or custom (Reynolds 853 ect) steel frame vs a 4130 (welded in Taiwan) frame that wouldn't be much better than the Cross Check that I just sold.
> 
> I went ahead and bought a NOS: 60cm 2009 Cannondale CAAD9 CX9 cyclocross frame. The geometry is exactly what I would have ordered custom: a 600mm top-tube and 200mm head-tube. I will install a All-City Nature Boy steel fork instead of carbon due to my heavy 220 lb body weight. Many have mentioned that the CAAD9 have a great ride quality, so I can't wait to find out.
> 
> ...



That's a good looking blue  !


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## donttazmebro (Dec 26, 2007)

Copied from their site:The Rodriguez Outlaw

Rodriguez Outlaw Ultra-light Steel bike
Full bike with pedals and bottle cage is just 14.07 pounds
(With Campagnolo Super Record)


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## Mosovich (Feb 3, 2004)

*Here's my steel bike..*

My brand new Zukas I picked up today.. It's no super light, but it is very nice.. [email protected] Great guy and does beautiful work...


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## jroden (Jun 15, 2004)

your cannondale is a great bike, it's light, handles well and is plenty stiff, plus affordable. I suspect you will really like it a lot. The only issue with those bikes is they are easy to dent from the kinds of dopey crashes we do off road.


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## Erik_A (Sep 14, 2008)

Thanks man, I didn't know that (170 lb. cutoff), thanks for the info. Does this mean the Cannondale Cyclocross 5/ CAAD9, is under-designed for my weight? I don't want to snap an aluminum frame.

I came very close to pulling the trigger on a Gunnar Crosshairs, thinking that because it is steel it would hold up well to my 220 lbs. I didn't even know that the Fastlane ( http://gunnarbikes.com/site/bikes/fast-lane/ ) was a cross bike. Does Gunnar talk more about what their official weight ranges and tube material/ strengths are? I would imaging that a 68cm Crosshairs would be a bit stronger/ heavier gauge than the 54cm Crosshairs, even for racing (Have you seen a rider that weighs 170 fit on a 68cm bike?). My guess is that even for Gunnar's race bikes when they get to sizes over 60cm they beef up the tubes - I would like to find out.

Also, this makes me reconsider the Civilian Vive Le Roi because it uses 4130 steel which even though heavier than Reynolds 853/ Tange Platinum, my understanding is that it is inherently stronger. http://www.ridecvln.com/bike-types/cyclocross/

So, if I need a beefier $975 Gunnar Fastlane frame for my weight, I may just spring for a $1200 Civilian Vive Le Roi, complete.



> Most competition bike frames, regardless of material used, are designed by manufacturers for riders that are between 145 lbs and 170lbs in mind, because people that do compete in events are, on the average, around that weight range. This is one of the reasons that when a 230 lbs customer tells a serious custom wheel builder that they want him or her to build them a set of "bomb proof" light wheels that they can put on a light road or off road bike, if that wheel builder is honest, he or she will usually tell them to get their weight down to at least 170 lbs, and give them a call back. A lightweight frame will start behaving unpredictably when you start putting 200lbs or more weight on it, and even more if that bike then has to take on gravel or broken pavement. Some manufacturers have started addressing this issue with bikes that have a beefier set of top tube and down tubes. Waterford Precision Cycles, for example, also makes the Gunnar brand of bicycles, which in turn has a lineup of cyclocross frames. They have their original CX frame, the Crosshairs, with their regular OS2 Air Hardening tube set. They have their new disk based competition frame, the Hyper X. And finally they have their heavy duty frame, the Fastlane, which has a beefier sset of the OS2 Air Hardening top tubes and down tubes. Not only can they accommodate a heavier rider, they can also double as a lightweight touring machine if set up properly. The downside with the Fastlane, is that the beefier tube set make the bike a little heavier. But what you trade in weight, you gain in pure comfort enjoyment and resilience.


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## Erik_A (Sep 14, 2008)

Awesome, thanks for the confirmation on the CADD9 - I will go ahead and build it up ( I was worried since someone told me it dented easily - that it may not be stout enough for 6'-4" / 220lbs). I still plan on using the All-City Nature Boy steel fork with the frame - which is heavy in comparison to the CAAD9 - but I am OK with it, since my wheels (w/clinchers) are nothing special, and I am putting a BB30 adapter in to use standard Shimano 105 cranks. So overall it is not going to be super lightweight.






> I'm bigger than you, OP, and have a Caad9 CX that I love. Exact dimensions you're looking for, great handling/performance, and not a lot of $$.
> 
> I build steel bikes and have another cross bike that I love, but the Cannondale is so damn practical and fits well so I grab it pretty frequently for dirt road rides.
> 
> PS I have no concerns about the fork strength of the stock fork, but if I did I'd slap an Enve on it and never give it another thought.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

a nice choice, and ftr I'm about 230 and have ridden light ALu frames and CF forks. Never thought I'd break either


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## Erik_A (Sep 14, 2008)

Well if Aluminum is good enough for "atpjunkie" - it is good enough for me! Cheers-



atpjunkie said:


> a nice choice, and ftr I'm about 230 and have ridden light ALu frames and CF forks. Never thought I'd break either


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## JChasse (Sep 16, 2005)

I've got a Gunnar Crosshairs and a Zanconato custom. 

If i were to buy another steel 'cross bike (I don't need to with the Zank!) it would be a Speedvagen. They are pretty light and really sexy.


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## Erik_A (Sep 14, 2008)

Cool the SV looks great - 62cm hass a 600 toptube! Too pricey for a non-pro like me though - but beautiful frame!



JChasse said:


> I've got a Gunnar Crosshairs and a Zanconato custom.
> 
> If i were to buy another steel 'cross bike (I don't need to with the Zank!) it would be a Speedvagen. They are pretty light and really sexy.


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## CapitalCrewBiker (Aug 24, 2011)

Civilian has a pretty nice Disc 1.5'' head tube 4130 Chromoly "not real steel" But they are on hucknroll for pretty good normal people pricing.


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## Erik_A (Sep 14, 2008)

CapitalCrewBiker said:


> Civilian has a pretty nice Disc 1.5'' head tube 4130 Chromoly "not real steel" But they are on hucknroll for pretty good normal people pricing.


Has anyone here bought a Civilian yet? If so - chime in on how you like it.


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## Mosovich (Feb 3, 2004)

*Wt of Zank??*



JChasse said:


> I've got a Gunnar Crosshairs and a Zanconato custom.
> 
> If i were to buy another steel 'cross bike (I don't need to with the Zank!) it would be a Speedvagen. They are pretty light and really sexy.


Just curious, what is the weight of your Zank?


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## Erik_A (Sep 14, 2008)

Received the Cannondale (CAAD9 CX9 Cyclocross 5 '09) back from the mechanics at my LBS (Joes Bike Shop - Baltimore) last week, who did an awesome job w/ the build.

I have only done 2 training rides so far, but it has a really great ride - loving it (even with the other mish-mash of parts, heavy wheels and steel front fork).


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## TXBDan (Sep 14, 2010)

220lbs isn't that heavy. You act like your 300lbs or something.


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## jroden (Jun 15, 2004)

as long as you don't bang that bike around it will be a great value for you, every single cannondale i have owned (maybe 5 total) ended up with a dent in one tube or another. generally it doesn't matter, but they are easy to ping up, the classic is the bars wheel around and whack the top tube


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## Erik_A (Sep 14, 2008)

Just thought I would post an update on my c'dale build now that it is dialed-in after a half dozen rides. I am loving it, smoothest aluminum frame that I have ridden.

*Frame*
2009 CAAD9 CX9 Cyclocross 5 
Size: 60cm
Frame Construction:	TIG-welded
Frame Tubing Material: CAAD9 Optimo Taper Butted Alloy
Fork Brand & Model: All City; Nature Boy
Fork Material: Steel

*Components*
Brakeset: Shimano CX-70 Catilevers
Shift Levers: late 1990's Campy Record Ergo – 8 speed
Front Derailleur: Shimano CX-70
Rear Derailleur: Campy Veloce
Crankset: Shimano CX-50 Compact Double, 46/36 teeth
Pedals: Crank Brothers - Eggbeaters
Bottom Bracket: Shimano 105 with a FSA BB30 adapter to English threaded
BB Shell Width: 68mm
Rear Cogs: 8-speed, 11 - 32 teeth
Seatpost: FSA Carbon, 27.2mm diameter
Saddle: Specialized Avatar Gel - 130
Handlebar: Salsa Cowbell 3 - 46cm
Bar Wrap: Salsa Gel Cork Bar Tape
Handlebar Stem: FSA

*Wheels*
Hubs	Shimano Deore
Rims	Alex DH19
Tires	700 x 35c Continental Speed King


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