# How much do tires make a difference?



## innergel (Jun 14, 2002)

I have two bikes, both essentially the same, with very similar wheel sets. Both are lugged steel with 9sp Ultegra or DA groups and 32 hole 3x wheels. One is slightly heavier than the other. 

I rode them the same route on back to back nights and the heavier bike definitely feels "sluggish" compared to the other. After thinking about this the entire ride, the only thought I can come up with is that the tires on the heavier bike should be the only thing causing the different feeling. 

The heavier bike has Michelin Lithion's. The other bike has Maxxis Columbiere's. The Maxxis are noted as a race tire and the Lithion are more of a training tire. Could the tires be causing this much difference in feel? I never noticed the Lithions being particularly sluggish before, but I never had anything to compare them to either. Sluggish is a bad word but it's the only thing I can come up with to describe the different feeling. 

Am I nuts or do I need to upgrade the Lithions to something different? 

If you need more details on the bikes or wheels, I'll post it.


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2009)

I don't know what the comparison is between those two but rolling resistance does vary quite a bit between tire models, and that may be some of what you noticed.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Innergel, I suggest you do a wheel-swap on those bikes and I suggest you do it mid ride too - choose something like a 10-mile circuit, ride it on wheelset 1, go home, do the swap and ride it again on wheelset 2. Different bikes and different days make for too many variables.

I did this on our local indoor board track. I'd installed a set of tires that I bought off a friend; tires that I had high hopes for. My first hour on the track felt like I was pedaling in wet cement. Was I having a bad day or was it the tires? Coming back another day would prove nothing as there were too many variables. 

Luckily I'd brought my old tires with me to the track. In ten minutes I had them fitted and was up on the boards for another hour. The difference was like night and day. I was flying, relative to the first session. I repeated this at a later date at home on the rollers with the same results. Tire set #2 were terrible compared to my old tires.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

I'm certainly convinced that I can feel a difference in tires and how well they roll. Comfort varies so much based on pressure, but some tires sure seem more comfortable - pressure being the same.


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## The Green Hour (Jul 15, 2008)

Sometimes the state of mind and physical condition can play games with how your bike feels. The first night you may have been fresher than the second night. I notice this personally...

That said, I'm sure tires can make a big difference. Did you try swapping wheelsets?


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

All the difference.


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

innergel said:


> Am I nuts or do I need to upgrade the Lithions to something different?
> 
> If you need more details on the bikes or wheels, I'll post it.


25mm Vittoria Open C's. You will not regret it.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

ClassicSteel71 said:


> 25mm Vittoria Open C's. You will not regret it.


I received a pair last week and they're  chillin' on ice waiting for a light set of wheels to do them justice.


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

check the difference in tire weight between the two. Do they both have the same tubes? or is one a thorn resistance model? thorn resistant weigh more.


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## innergel (Jun 14, 2002)

I just checked the specs on the tires and the Maxxis are 225g, the Michelin are 230g. The Michelins are definitely listed as a sport/touring tire with long wear life, so I'm still thinking they are the culprit, even with the small weight difference. I never thought about the tubes. 

And thinking back a bit I think the heavier bike has felt a little sluggish before. I sort of chalked that up to reduced fitness on my part but that would not have been the case this week. There is no reason it should be sluggish. It's well tuned up and in good order. It has to be something with the wheels/tires/tubes. 

I'll try the mid-ride wheel swap. That's an excellent idea.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*The watch*



innergel said:


> I rode them the same route on back to back nights and the heavier bike definitely feels "sluggish" compared to the other. After thinking about this the entire ride, the only thought I can come up with is that the tires on the heavier bike should be the only thing causing the different feeling.


What does your stopwatch say? Why go on feelings when you can actually measure any differences in performance? Odds are you won't find much/any difference in actual speed compared to your feelings.


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## bikerchas55 (Aug 7, 2004)

Tires make a big difference. I find really no reason to use cheap tires. I myself use Michelin PRO3 Race and they last a season. Keep them clean, use your (gloved) hand after riding through glass, sand, etc, pump to the max before every ride and they will not flat. The feel you get from race tires is worth any longevity issue and 1 or 2 pair per season is not that expensive. Forget Maxxis and all similar crap, get a pair of Conti 4000, Michelin PRO3, Vittoria Open CX or Veloflex and start enjoying your ride instead of trying to figure out if your tires are slowing you down.


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## innergel (Jun 14, 2002)

bikerchas55 said:


> Tires make a big difference. I find really no reason to use cheap tires. I myself use Michelin PRO3 Race and they last a season. Keep them clean, use your (gloved) hand after riding through glass, sand, etc, pump to the max before every ride and they will not flat. The feel you get from race tires is worth any longevity issue and 1 or 2 pair per season is not that expensive. Forget Maxxis and all similar crap, get a pair of Conti 4000, Michelin PRO3, Vittoria Open CX or Veloflex and start enjoying your ride instead of trying to figure out if your tires are slowing you down.


I like my Maxxis tires. All 5 sets I've had. It's the Michelin's that I'm not so sure about. 

With that said, I think my next set will be Vredestein Fortezza Tricomps.


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## Oldteen (Sep 7, 2005)

bikerchas55 said:


> Tires make a big difference. I find really no reason to use cheap tires. I myself use Michelin PRO3 Race and they last a season. Keep them clean, use your (gloved) hand after riding through glass, sand, etc, pump to the max before every ride and they will not flat. The feel you get from race tires is worth any longevity issue and 1 or 2 pair per season is not that expensive. Forget Maxxis and all similar crap, get a pair of Conti 4000, Michelin PRO3, Vittoria Open CX or Veloflex and start enjoying your ride instead of trying to figure out if your tires are slowing you down.


Agree that tires make a big difference & no reason to used "cheap" tires. HOWEVER- longevity & durability are important too. I hate flats, esp in middle of long rides. I've tried ProRaces & find them a little too delicate. Nice ride/handling/rolling resistance, but I was lucky to get 2 months out of 'em. Open Corsa's are best riding clincher I've ever tried (like butta!!!), but wear quick & flat too easy. I've settled on Vittoria's Rubino Pro (Slick version rolls a bit better) as my all-around fav clincher. Decent treadlife & durability with minimal compromise in ride/handling.


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

try using Vittoria Diamante pro lights on the rear and conti supersonics on the front and 50 gram tubes and see if you don't notice a difference.


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## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

Upgrading your tires is like upgrading your ride quality. 

Put cheap Zaffiros on a $10k bike and the ride won't be any better than a $500 bike with Pro3's I assure you.


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