# Levi



## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

Will NEVER make the podium.




oh. wait. it appears he's in 3rd on the GC.



HEY. WAIT. WHERE'D ALL THE HATERS GO? i miss them.





Chicken got plucked.



Attack Monkey got slung.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

Heh, it took Astana getting pulled out and the current MJ to get fired, but yea, looks like he'll podium.

Kinda like Julich's 3rd in 1998 eh?


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

Those sound like excuses to me or whining. What a bunch of wheel"suckers".


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## asciibaron (Aug 11, 2006)

i bet Levi doesn't make the poodium - the Tour has plenty of time for more scandal


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

asciibaron said:


> i bet Levi doesn't make the poodium - the Tour has plenty of time for more scandal


LOLOL


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## Hollywood (Jan 16, 2003)

I wanna see a fat, drunk Ulrich come flying out of a side street, helmetless and shirtless and laughing with a beer in one hand, trying to *derby* the GC.

Phil and Paul: "Is that.......Jan Ulrich? My god, he's riding like a man possessed......by beer!"

well, I can dream.


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## MellowDramatic (Jun 8, 2006)

Hollywood said:


> I wanna see a fat, drunk Ulrich come flying out of a side street, helmetless and shirtless and laughing with a beer in one hand, trying to *derby* the GC.
> 
> Phil and Paul: "Is that.......Jan Ulrich? My god, he's riding like a man possessed......by beer!"
> 
> well, I can dream.


I would like that, although I'm really not sure anything would surprise me in this tour.


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## ClimbElYunque (Jun 21, 2005)

Einstruzende said:


> Heh, it took Astana getting pulled out and the current MJ to get fired, but yea, looks like he'll podium.
> 
> Kinda like Julich's 3rd in 1998 eh?



Anyway, Wim Vansevenant (Bel) Predictor - Lotto 
will win the race now,


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Einstruzende said:


> Heh, it took Astana getting pulled out and the current MJ to get fired, but yea, looks like he'll podium.
> 
> Kinda like Julich's 3rd in 1998 eh?


Normally I really like your posts/agree with you but, uh-uh. Even if MJ, Cofidis, Astana, bobana fofana and whoever else hadn't been pulled. More than likely he'd still be in contention for at least the third podium spot today. He got where he is w/those guys IN the race. 

Give him his props! Dude's got class.


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## krankenstein (Sep 12, 2006)

teh moreon,
Yes here is your chance to gloat. I didn't forsee kloden getting boot via Vino. And chicken getting the boot from his team. But then again I don't think anyone saw this coming. I was one of the ones who didn't think Levi can do it by merely riding conservatively, without taking risks. And if either of those two are still in it, I still don't. Nevertheless facts are facts, and Levi is poise to be on the podium. So bravo teh moreon, go ahead yell "I told you so!" at the top of your lungs. 

But let me ask you this, Is it worth it? To have all that has ocurred, happened to our beloved sport, to have not just one but three scandels occur in the space of just two days. A bit of a pyrrhic victory, don't you think? I understand as well as anyone the joys of winning a sporting arguement amongst friends or with strangers, but if you can take joy from this... well then you can have it.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

krankenstein said:


> teh moreon,
> Yes here is your chance to gloat. I didn't forsee kloden getting boot via Vino. And chicken getting the boot from his team. But then again I don't think anyone saw this coming. I was one of the ones who didn't think Levi can do it by merely riding conservatively, without taking risks. And if either of those two are still in it, I still don't. Nevertheless facts are facts, and Levi is poise to be on the podium. So bravo teh moreon, go ahead yell "I told you so!" at the top of your lungs.
> 
> But let me ask you this, Is it worth it? To have all that has ocurred, happened to our beloved sport, to have not just one but three scandels occur in the space of just two days. A bit of a pyrrhic victory, don't you think? I understand as well as anyone the joys of winning a sporting arguement amongst friends or with strangers, but if you can take joy from this... well then you can have it.



Depends on how you look at it.

If you look at it as the best riders didn't end the tour and he ended up on the podium by default then it's somewhat of a hollow victory.

However, if you look at it as they were dopers and shouldn't have been there in the first place, then he deserves it and should celebrate his accomplishment.

Personally, I don't think Vino, Kloden (yes, I think he was a bad as Vino, and Levi was ahead of him before the team dropped out) or Rasmussen should have been there in the first place. It might have changed race tactics and he still might not have ended up there, but the point is he still deserves all the platitudes he gets for finishing on the podium (assuming he has a good ITT).

Personally, I think it's a great placing for Levi and he deserves it. He has ridden a smart race, will likely finish on the podium and deserves a lot of credit despite his detractors. As little as I think anybody is clean in the Peloton, I think he might be one of the few top riders that is clean. For once, maybe a nice guy will do well.

As far as Rasmussen goes, he might not have actually failed a test, but he has a lot of explaining to do and he was acting like a complete jerk today on the ride up the last climb. Personally, I'm glad he's gone. 

Vino was just stupid, has no ability to actually use good tactics over the course of a 3 week race so he was never going to be on the podium anyway. 

Kloden had a shot, but the team didn't support him from the beginning and he lost time because he was told to support Vino instead.

So regardless, I think Levi deserved to be on the podium.


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## krankenstein (Sep 12, 2006)

Wookiebiker,
You misunderstand me, I am not saying that I feel the dopers are more deserving, or that they should not have been ejected. I just meant that the whole thing is such a sorry state of affairs, that these little internet pi$$ing contest between sports fans, seem to me a little besides the point.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

krankenstein said:


> Wookiebiker,
> You misunderstand me, I am not saying that I feel the dopers are more deserving, or that they should not have been ejected. I just meant that the whole thing is such a sorry state of affairs, that these little internet pi$$ing contest between sports fans, seem to me a little besides the point.


Maybe, but I too share "teh moreon's" laughter at those that supported the dopers early on because of their "stellar" efforts throughout the Tour. Call it what you will I guess.

However there was lots of smoke around both Rasmussen and Vino but they had a huge support base that bashed Levi for being: boring, non attacking, wheel sucking, average, a "super domesitque", etc.

Then all that support goes out the window because of the doping that eventually turns up. However, had those same riders not been caught, they would have thrown it in Levi's face for not attacking, not working hard enough, being a "super domestique", etc. and not thought twice about it even though their "favorite" riders were really doping.

As I stated earlier this week/past weekend....People want to support exciting riders, not good riders. They want super human efforts and will support those that show that ability. The problem is, those turn out to be the dopers. That's why you see the NFL, Baseball, etc. turn a blind eye to the PED problems in their leagues. People want to see those types of efforts and live in their special little world and believe they are not doping.

Of course, now that we have had our laugh Levi will turn up a positive test.....:mad2: Murphy's law at it's best....:thumbsup:


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

joehartley said:


> I would like that, although I'm really not sure anything would surprise me in this tour.


Michael Schumacher riding a bike on the next TT stage and winning it?


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

krankenstein said:


> teh moreon,
> Yes here is your chance to gloat. I didn't forsee kloden getting boot via Vino. And chicken getting the boot from his team. But then again I don't think anyone saw this coming. I was one of the ones who didn't think Levi can do it by merely riding conservatively, without taking risks. And if either of those two are still in it, I still don't. Nevertheless facts are facts, and Levi is poise to be on the podium. So bravo teh moreon, go ahead yell "I told you so!" at the top of your lungs.
> 
> But let me ask you this, Is it worth it? To have all that has ocurred, happened to our beloved sport, to have not just one but three scandels occur in the space of just two days. A bit of a pyrrhic victory, don't you think? I understand as well as anyone the joys of winning a sporting arguement amongst friends or with strangers, but if you can take joy from this... well then you can have it.


I did get to gloat and it felt good. My guy is at least looking at a podium spot if all goes well. 
Doping blows chunks for sure. But it at least the initiative is working. It has exposed the cheaters and burned away their false results. Almighty, I hope LL doesn't dope (yes it gnaws at me a little). But I doubt it. His results don't show him to be a doper (no Superman comebacks after losing a leg). 
The fact of the matter is this for me. LL is being rewarded for being the rider he is. He really does have class. He supports his team fully.


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## BuenosAires (Apr 3, 2004)

Congrats to Levi.

He'll make the podium of the most irrelevant Tour in the last 3 decades.


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## pogie (Jul 22, 2006)

Hollywood said:


> I wanna see a fat, drunk Ulrich come flying out of a side street, helmetless and shirtless and laughing with a beer in one hand, trying to *derby* the GC.
> 
> Phil and Paul: "Is that.......Jan Ulrich? My god, he's riding like a man possessed......by beer!"
> 
> well, I can dream.


I don't laugh out loud to often, that had me almost spewing my coffee on the monitor!


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

BuenosAires said:


> Congrats to Levi.
> 
> He'll make the podium of the most irrelevant Tour in the last 3 decades.



*Please explain how it's the most irrelevant Tour in the last 3 decades?*

Because dopers were caught and they just happend to turn out to be some of the top riders? Who would have thought that  

Because people are fed up with the dopers they worship every year? If people are that emotionally invested in a sport and athletes they were setting themselves up for dissapointment. All sports have athletes that use PED's, they just haven't done the testing that cycling does.

Beacause the cycling federation and the Tour finally decided to do something about doping? It's about time....

Because tests are finally catching up the the drugs the riders use?

Because people want to watch super human performances that they no longer get to see?

Because you lost interest, it's become the most irrelevant Tour for everybody else? Think pretty high of yourself there don't you :blush2: 

Because you don't like a guy named Levi on the podium?


Again, please explain why this is the most irrelevant Tour in the last 3 decades?


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## velocipede (Feb 10, 2005)

BuenosAires said:


> Congrats to Levi.
> 
> He'll make the podium of the most irrelevant Tour in the last 3 decades.


How again is this Tour irrelevant?


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## BuenosAires (Apr 3, 2004)

Wookiebiker said:


> *Please explain how it's the most irrelevant Tour in the last 3 decades?*
> 
> Because dopers were caught and they just happend to turn out to be some of the top riders? Who would have thought that
> 
> ...


No need to get personal.

I understand the need to eliminate dopers, but they knew Ras had missed the tests prior to the beginning of the Tour. Why allow him to start at all? They waited until the deciding stage of the Tour is completed, and then remove him? It basically, renders the entire results of the Tour meaningless and irrelevant. He hasn't actually tested positive for anything. The whole timing of the thing stinks and the handling of it is completely unprofessional. It seems the attitude is that if you're winning the Tour, you must be doping.If he were 5th or 10th on GC would they have pulled him? NO! 

So tell me, how do you know anyone is clean? What about Kloden, what did he test positive for? Nothing, he's a casualty of the witchhunt. What about Contador's performance in the Mountains? Seems pretty incredible for a guy of his young age, is he clean? There is no crediblity left to the Tour, thus, in my opinion it's irrelevant.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

BuenosAires said:


> No need to get personal.
> 
> I understand the need to eliminate dopers, but they knew Ras had missed the tests prior to the beginning of the Tour. Why allow him to start at all? They waited until the deciding stage of the Tour is completed, and then remove him? It basically, renders the entire results of the Tour meaningless and irrelevant. He hasn't actually tested positive for anything. The whole timing of the thing stinks and the handling of it is completely unprofessional. It seems the attitude is that if you're winning the Tour, you must be doping.If he were 5th or 10th on GC would they have pulled him? NO!
> 
> So tell me, how do you know anyone is clean? What about Kloden, what did he test positive for? Nothing, he's a casualty of the witchhunt. What about Contador's performance in the Mountains? Seems pretty incredible for a guy of his young age, is he clean? There is no crediblity left to the Tour, thus, in my opinion it's irrelevant.



Not being personal....You made the statment that this was the most irrelevant Tour in 3 decades, mostly because Levi is now in 3rd.

How about the Festina affair back in 1998? How about Pantini's doping, Ullrich, Riis? All tour winners in the last decade or so that won while doping. Are those tours not irrelevant as well?

Nope, you just want to make this one irrelevant because a guy you don't like is on the podium. You are making this personal by saying it's the most irrelevant in 3 decades? It's not irrelevant, if anything it's "The Most Releveant" tour in 3 decades because the doping controls are much more strict, riders are getting caught and those on the podium are likely the cleanest in years.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

BuenosAires said:


> Congrats to Levi.
> 
> He'll make the podium of the most irrelevant Tour in the last 3 decades.


sour grapes.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

Wookiebiker said:


> Not being personal....You made the statment that this was the most irrelevant Tour in 3 decades, mostly because Levi is now in 3rd.
> 
> How about the Festina affair back in 1998? How about Pantini's doping, Ullrich, Riis? All tour winners in the last decade or so that won while doping. Are those tours not irrelevant as well?
> 
> Nope, you just want to make this one irrelevant because a guy you don't like is on the podium. You are making this personal by saying it's the most irrelevant in 3 decades? It's not irrelevant, if anything it's "The Most Releveant" tour in 3 decades because the doping controls are much more strict, riders are getting caught and those on the podium are likely the cleanest in years.


True that. Ras getting kicked is due to mounting pressure throughout le tour. Remember it was his team that took the action. He broke team rules and lied the governing agencies. The controls will only truly work if the riders are there to complete the control. They can't test for it if the rider lies about his whereabouts.


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## BuenosAires (Apr 3, 2004)

Wookiebiker said:


> Not being personal....You made the statment that this was the most irrelevant Tour in 3 decades, mostly because Levi is now in 3rd.
> 
> How about the Festina affair back in 1998? How about Pantini's doping, Ullrich, Riis? All tour winners in the last decade or so that won while doping. Are those tours not irrelevant as well?
> 
> Nope, you just want to make this one irrelevant because a guy you don't like is on the podium. You are making this personal by saying it's the most irrelevant in 3 decades? It's not irrelevant, if anything it's "The Most Releveant" tour in 3 decades because the doping controls are much more strict, riders are getting caught and those on the podium are likely the cleanest in years.


Wow, now you're twisting my words. I never said the Tour was irrelevant because Levi is in 3rd. When you wait until the Tour is basically decided and remove the leader, in my eyes that makes the results irrelevant. 


Rasmussen didn't test positive for anything. It's all speculation and politics at this point.
Kloden and the rest of Astana didn't test positive except for Vino, and Kloden was a contender for a podium spot. 

As far as the remaining candidates for the podium, how do you know they're clean?
You don't. The Tour is a complete mess.


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## BuenosAires (Apr 3, 2004)

teh moreon said:


> sour grapes.


It's not sour grapes, the Tour de France and professional cycling in general is a complete joke right now and you know it.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

BuenosAires said:


> Wow, now you're twisting my words. I never said the Tour was irrelevant because Levi is in 3rd. When you wait until the Tour is basically decided and remove the leader, in my eyes that makes the results irrelevant.
> 
> 
> Rasmussen didn't test positive for anything. It's all speculation and politics at this point.
> ...


What's speculative? I'm not twisting words. Ras got the boot because he lied. That's awfully suspicious. You know lying, right? ok. i know you do. He lied to his team and they took the right action.
Yes. Kloden was a casualty. Sucks. I like Kloden. But sometimes, that's the way the ball bounces. Just like LL on a team with a young phenom.


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## BuenosAires (Apr 3, 2004)

teh moreon said:


> What's speculative? I'm not twisting words. Ras got the boot because he lied. That's awfully suspicious. You know lying, right? ok. i know you do. He lied to his team and they took the right action.
> Yes. Kloden was a casualty. Sucks. I like Kloden. But sometimes, that's the way the ball bounces. Just like LL on a team with a young phenom.


I was replying to Wookie, who said that i claimed the Tour was irrelevant because Levi was on the podium.

I just don't know who or what to believe anymore.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

BuenosAires said:


> It's not sour grapes, the Tour de France and professional cycling in general is a complete joke right now and you know it.


I enjoy cycling as I always have done. Even if LL, was/is doping and was caught. I would find another rider to watch or another way to enjoy.
He has one of the best characters I've seen in any sport for a while. If that should ever change. Then i would move past it. My perspective. The controls are starting to take root. That helps me enjoy cycling more.

So, no, I don't know/think cycling is a joke.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

BuenosAires said:


> Wow, now you're twisting my words. I never said the Tour was irrelevant because Levi is in 3rd. When you wait until the Tour is basically decided and remove the leader, in my eyes that makes the results irrelevant.
> 
> 
> Rasmussen didn't test positive for anything. It's all speculation and politics at this point.
> ...



I'm not twisting anything. You said



> Congrats to Levi.
> 
> He'll make the podium of the most irrelevant Tour in the last 3 decades


That's a slam at Levi because you see him as a rider that shouldn't be on the podium because he's substandard in your eyes.

Again, the last 3 decades? Every Tour should be under suspicion, not just this one. They are all irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. Just look at the list of podium finishers over the last 15-20 years and how many of them have been caught doping.....It's astounding. Why are those not irrelevant? Because you say they aren't that's why :blush2: 

As far as Kloden goes....Astana was under suspicion from the start of the tour and my guess is they had systematic doping on the team. It's guilt by association. Vino tested positive for having somebody else's blood in his system. How did that get there? Did the team doctor mess up who's blood he got, while the rest of the team got their appropriate dosage and bottle/packet?

Rasmussen? He had suspicion from the start of the tour. Missing for 22 days, lied to his team about where he was, possible ties to Dr. Ferrari, the story released about his SIDI box full of doping products. Lots of smoke there and, yes, he shouldn't have been in the tour. Remember his team "Fired" him, thus removing him from the tour. The Tour didn't kick him out. If he's fired from his team he doesn't deserve to win. 

However, all of thise scandal might show the difference between somebody that does dope and somebody that doesn't and that the tour can not only be ridden without doping, but a podium spot can be achieved without it (I still have my doubts about Contador)

Face it, your original post was a slam at Levi because "You" feel he made the podium by default. The simple fact is every tour of the last 15-20 years and probably every tour since it's inception should have an asterisks next to it for all podium and jersey winners. They are all irrelevant.


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## BuenosAires (Apr 3, 2004)

Wookiebiker said:


> I'm not twisting anything. You said
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Obviously, you're not reading my posts, so i'll quit here. I said that regarding Levi because that's what the post was about. I also believe the same thing about the rest of the riders. We don't know who's doping and who is not. So, you go on believing your boy Levi is clean and everyone else is dirty. Bravo!


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

BuenosAires said:


> Obviously, you're not reading my posts, so i'll quit here. I said that regarding Levi because that's what the post was about. I also believe the same thing about the rest of the riders. We don't know who's doping and who is not. So, you go on believing your boy Levi is clean and everyone else is dirty. Bravo!


Obviously you are not reading my posts....LOL  

I originally asked you to clarify why this was the most irrelevant Tour in 3 decades, something you have yet to do, at least with any clarity.

I've also said I have my doubts about "Every" rider in the tour, but of those near the top, I would be willing to give Levi the levity considering his performance's not just during this tour but throughout his carer. I never said I thought he was clean, just that I give him somewhat the benefit of doubt.

Contador, I have serious questions about and since they are on the same team, which was also Lance's team (of which I have my doubts about also) I guess levity shouldn't be given to Levi either.

However, I do still want to know why this is the most irrelevant tour in 3 decades given it's long storied history of doping.....Care to clarify since you are quiting here?


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## leeterkel (Jul 26, 2007)

*Stones*

Doping, corrupt governing body, player haters aside.... I am a huge disco fan.... but have a huge problem with LL. Whenever it seems like it really counts in the biggest races at the most critical moments, he never seems to come up with the goods. Yes he won the Amgen, yes he looked good at TDG, but when it has really counted, two years running at the tour... He has let his team down.

This is his moment to prove to everyone that he has teeth, that he can throw down when it counts. Levi, if you are listening, go take that minute plus out of Cadel and prove everyone (me included) wrong!


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

krankenstein said:


> ...these little internet pi$$ing contest between sports fans, seem to me a little besides the point.


Didn't Al Gore create the internet for sports fan pi$$ing contests?


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

leeterkel said:


> Doping, corrupt governing body, player haters aside.... I am a huge disco fan.... but have a huge problem with LL. Whenever it seems like it really counts in the biggest races at the most critical moments, he never seems to come up with the goods. Yes he won the Amgen, yes he looked good at TDG, but when it has really counted, two years running at the tour... He has let his team down.
> 
> This is his moment to prove to everyone that he has teeth, that he can throw down when it counts. Levi, if you are listening, go take that minute plus out of Cadel and prove everyone (me included) wrong!


boooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnggggggggggg!
have you watched this year's tour or did you see yesterday's stage? I guess not. idjit.:devil:


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## desmo13 (Jun 28, 2006)

I guess leeterkel is right, LL let his team down. He supposed to grab AC by the spandex and drag him up the last climb.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

What will be hilarious is if Levi eventually gets busted doping. That will be utterly hilarious.

Now, I am of the club that thinks Lance was doping when he won his 7, but he never got caught. Yes, he passed all the tests that he was required to take, but does that really mean he wasn't doping.

I would love to see all these guys take a lie detector every day before they line up for the start. Then, only the really good liars, or the teams that slip the drugs to their riders somehow, will be the winners.

In the end, who knows how the Tour was affected by teams pulling out and riders testing positive. Who really knows what would have happened if Kloden had remained in the Tour, and who is to say that Kloden was doping but Levi isn't.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

fabsroman said:


> What will be hilarious is if Levi eventually gets busted doping. That will be utterly hilarious.
> 
> Now, I am of the club that thinks Lance was doping when he won his 7, but he never got caught. Yes, he passed all the tests that he was required to take, but does that really mean he wasn't doping.
> 
> ...


yeah. who's to say? certainly not you, moreon. get bent.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Yep, at least if I am going to insult somebody, I wouldn't be so stupid as to misspell moron, you moron. And I wouldn't use moreon as my screen name either, and misspell "the" to begin with. I guess I should at least hand it to you, that you have the common sense to know that you are a moron. I don't like what you have to say about certain things, but I don't insult you when I reply.

Since you are so brilliant, how exactly do you know Levi isn't doping. Better question, if you are so brilliant, why aren't you running the doping tests at the Tour, or announcing at the Tour. Yep, you picked Levi to be on the podium, now go pat yourself on the back. If that is your greatest accomplishment in life, you might want to reconsider your course.


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## ECXkid04 (Jul 21, 2004)

Give him his props! Dude's got class.[/QUOTE said:


> i like Levi. he def. has class and didnt attack Rass even after he was robbed of a stage win 2 days ago. he seems really focused to the RACE and about riding his bike. really down to earth. like him or not, he is a class-act.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I'll agree with that statement. I think most of the current Discovery team has class. In fact, I was routing for Levi at the start of the Tour. Now, I just think the Tour is a joke.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

fabsroman said:


> Yep, at least if I am going to insult somebody, I wouldn't be so stupid as to misspell moron, you moron. And I wouldn't use moreon as my screen name either, and misspell "the" to begin with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Internet fight! It appears you've not spent much time on the interwebs or on RBR to understand the spelling, home slice. 








My brilliance is only exceeded by your demonstrative mental homeliness. 








Maybe I am running the controls and you don't know it, monkey. Of course that's not true. But it could be, all the same. How do I know LL isn't doping? I don't. But his performance profile doesn't really match that of a doper. So on and so forth, there unto, read my other posts on the subject. I did pick LL for the podium. It feels good. I like it. Even small successes make me feel good. I'm not surviving on hate, such as yourself.


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