# European bike manufacturers, are there any left?



## K-M-I (Jan 21, 2007)

Hello everyone
I'm looking for european bicycle manufacturers, which are OEM bike suppliers. I realize thar majority of OEM production takes place in Asia, but there are some facilities left in Europe, or not ? I've heard that some Asian manufacturers want to move to Europe, to avoid anti-dumping regulations of EU parlament. I'll be grateful for any information (websites, etc.).


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## flyboy50 (Mar 13, 2007)

Look and Orbea are french, not sure if they are manufactured in france.


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

flyboy50 said:


> Look and Orbea are french, not sure if they are manufactured in france.


"..Orbea...french..." The Spanish are going to be surprised to hear this. - TF


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

no, none... trek owns everything


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## The Walrus (Apr 2, 2000)

As far as I know, Bianchi still makes all their Reparto Corse frames in Italy.


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## CoLiKe20 (Jan 30, 2006)

Colnago still makes their bikes in Europe.


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## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

Majority--- when you add in all the cheap x-mart bikes, heavyweight commuters, kids bikes, etc.... there are still plenty of bikes made in Europe.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

Time and Cyfac are manufactured in France. The small British builders do their building in Blighty. In addition to the Italian makers mentioned above (and remember, most of the Colnago line is still made in Cambiago), SOMEC remains Italian made. Marschall is made in Germany. As far as I know, Tune components are made in Germany, too. Don't be brainwashed into thinking that every bicycle in the world comes out of a single factory in Asia, and that they are all identical except for the paint.


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## sbindra (Oct 18, 2004)

Look (France)
Time (France & Tunisia)
Orbea (Spain)
Ridley (Belgium)
Merckx (Belgium)
Colnago (Italy)
Pinarello (Italy)
Bianchi (Italy)
Lapierre (France)
DeRosa (Italy)

That's just a sample. There are alot of smaller manufacturers still in Europe. Most of the European companies are making their less expensive models in Asia.


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## Mark McM (Jun 18, 2005)

*Taiwanese Colnagos*



CoLiKe20 said:


> Colnago still makes their bikes in Europe.


Except the ones they make in Taiwan.

"Colnago Joins the A-Team

Just back from the Taiwan bicycle show, we asked Colnago about his decision to join the Taiwan sourcing consortium controlled by Giant Bicycles called the A-Team. Colnago has become a A-Team sponsor member, joining Specialized and Trek. Colnago told us right off the bat, "we will source several mid-range models for 2006 in Taiwan. The rest of our production will remain Made In Italy and will always remain as Made In Italy. But we see that the the world of bicycles is changing. Thanks to our collaboration with A-Team, now we can obtain high-quality competitively priced bicycles that can bear the Colnago name."



http://www.cyclingnews.com/sponsors/italia/2005/colnago.php


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## estone2 (Sep 25, 2005)

Mark McM said:


> Except the ones they make in Taiwan.
> 
> "Colnago Joins the A-Team
> 
> ...


Only the CLX.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2006/features/antipasto


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

DeRosa


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## Uprwstsdr (Jul 17, 2002)

sbindra said:


> Ridley (Belgium)
> 
> 
> I believe Ridley's are designed in Belgium but manufactured in Taiwan.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Gios is made in Italy still, I believe.

http://www.gios.it/2005/eng/prima.php?page=carbonlite-bike


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## orbit (Feb 7, 2007)

My understanding is that the Colnago alloy-carbon Arte is also made in Taiwan along with the CLX.

I think there are some definate grey areas over the “Made in Italy “ claim that some Italian manufactuers make. (Bike products as well as other manufactured products such as furniture and lighting). I have been told that according to Italian legislation, only 20% of the production process needs to have been undertaken in Italy for the manufacturer to be able to state their product is “Made in Italy”. I have heard a lot of talk about Bianchi in this area, and Pinarello to a lesser extent.


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## thebadger (Jul 27, 2002)

Scapin perhaps.


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

Tomassini, too.


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

sbindra said:


> Look (France)
> Time (France & Tunisia)


Look (France & Tunisia)
Time (France)


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## Guest (May 10, 2007)

ewitz said:


> Look (France & Tunisia)
> Time (France)



sbindra was correct.


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## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

TurboTurtle said:


> "..Orbea...french..." The Spanish are going to be surprised to hear this. - TF


almost as much as the basques are going to be surprised about it. :wink:


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## sbindra (Oct 18, 2004)

toomanybikes said:


> sbindra was correct.


Does Look do some of its manufacturing in Algeria?


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

toomanybikes said:


> sbindra was correct.


From another thread

'With the exception of the 2007 555, all LOOK frames are made in Tunisia. A few years ago we built a factory there to produce our frames exclusively. The production manager is French and has been with LOOK for 10-15 years. After being built in the Tunisian factory, all of the bikes go to France for painting and finishing.

[email protected]'

'Time frames are made in France, in two small factories southeast of Lyon near the Alps. They weave their own carbon fiber sheets from threads sourced from Germany.'


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## Rainier (Aug 6, 2006)

*Casati & Ciocc*

Casati and Ciocc are still made in Italy. Smaller brands that get almost no play in the states, but are amazing bikes nevertheless.


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## Team Murray (Jul 17, 2007)

*Made in Taiwan*

People,
Do not believe everything you hear or see. I was taken on a tour of the Taiwan bicycle manufacturing capability back in 2004. A friend wanted me to help him source carbon bikes in Taiwan. The host of my tour was Pacific Bicycles, one of the older OEM manufacturers in Taiwan. Pacific bicyles OEMs for Supergo and is the largest consumer of Shimano groups. They also OEM for Banshee, On-One, a British fixed gear bike company, and Birdy, a German folding bike company.

He provided me pricing on Al lugged carbon frames with a fork, $350 per set with any fork (Columbus, Reynolds, Easton, etc.).

I toured 4 factories all making bikes that were "Made in the USA" or "Made in Italy". I told him I wanted to see the most advanced carbon frame I knew of at the time, BMC. I saw them make the Tour bikes for Tyler and Phonak. Anyone want to guess what the cost is on a BMC SLT-01 is? I also saw the prototype for the Canondale 6.8, the one Simoni rode to win the Giro. (Made in USA?). THey also manufactured for Rotwild and Stevens of Germany. The most entertaining was the QC guy writes his numbers and initials like a European. Other models made in Taiwan/China include: Pinarello monocoque frames, Bianchi RC, Ridley, etc. In the case of Ridley, they manufacture frames in Asia and paint them in Belgium.

THe Italian manufacturers tried a slur campaign a few years back. They said that the frames were made by child laborers. Where in fact, they are made by skilled metal and composite experts. The Italians said the Asian labor did not know what they were doing. Ever wonder why the old steel bikes had horizontal dropouts. It was because the "experienced" builders could braze or mitre exactly. They were their to make up for the tolerance stack up. The fact is the brazer, welder, or composite person in Asia is making/working with many more units than his European counterpart. So for example, his experience with Scandium welding is much greater.

In today's world you can outsource most anything, as long as you maintain controls. Ritchey, Trek, and SPecialized are the kings of Asian made components. Last I checked, there were several Tour teams using Ritchey components and Specialized bikes. Tom Ritchey has made numerous innovations to facilitate the manufacture of his bikes and components. I think he came up with the cap-end style vertical dropout. It's much faster and more accurate when brazing or welding a steel bike.

In short, just because a bike is made in Asia does not mean it is a lesser bike than one made in Europe or the US. Giant use to OEM for Specialized and Trek. Over ten years ago, the founder wanted to brand his own label so he began sponsoring the Tour team, ONCE. Since then Giant has been making world class racing bikes and brought us the innovation we called the compact frame. 

FSA is an Taiwanese brand that basically created the 3rd party crank and handlebar market. (By the way, what ever happened to Cinelli handlebars. They use to be the handlebar market leader in the 80's.) Today, it seems like half the tour teams ride FSA cranks, bars, and stems.

Prologo is the high end brand for Velo Saddles. It has been positioned as a european saddle. It sponsors, Milram, CSC, and Tinkoff.

Today, I ride a frame made by Carbotec and market under the Vellum name. It is a very nice carbon monocoque that is smooth, light and not too expensive. It does not have a huge marketing budget behind it. But I don't need that. By the way, it is also sold under the Raleigh label.

I have heard many arguments to buy a Calfee, a Parlee, or a Serotta cause they are great bikes and handmade in the US. I have several Serottas, including a Team Murray. They ride great but I just don't want to spend >$5000 on just the frame. I am lucky, I can ride a stock geometry. But If I could not, I would buy a custom frame and look into a Calfee, Parlee, or another Serotta. (BTW, I am still looking for a pristine steel De Rosa to rebuild because of the heritage and workmanship.)

Bottom line, in today's world, people are outsourcing. Manufacturers are knowledgable and very capable. Manufacturers are moving from OEMs to ODMs. Where its designed, and how its psoitioned in the market can be spearated from where it is made and still yield a superior product.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

sbindra said:


> Pinarello (Italy)


Taiwan and painted in Italy.


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## joe_blow (Jul 16, 2008)

BH are made in Spain


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## FightingIllini (Jul 26, 2007)

*Orbea*

My 2006 Orbea Vuelta says made in Spain.


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## Rubber Lizard (May 10, 2007)

Orbea and BHs are made in China, not Spain. European trade laws are rather lax and if the frame is finished or something along those lines a 'made in country x' sticker can be placed on it. The hard and fast rule is that if its a monocoque carbon frame its made in Asia. There are exceptions, but few with monocoque frames, such as some Looks and De Rosas.


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## Team Murray (Jul 17, 2007)

*More food for thought*

In the Italian shoe and apparel industry (normal fashion, not cycling) , they are trying hard to maintain the "Made in Italy" branding. They have import Chinese laborers to Italy. So the label should read, "Made in Italy...by Chinese"

In the shoe industry, the shoes are actually made in china. You just need to dig under the insole to find the made in china stamp.

Re: BH frames
There is a guy on ebay selling a generic version of the BH frame.


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

Team Murray is correct.

Unless it is a steel bike... it is likely from Taiwan. Colnago, Pinarello, Bianchi, De Rosa, Orbea... carbon or Aluminum... they are made in Taiwan. Taiwan Pride! 

We have some good work coming out of here... and more reliable than China. I hear a lot of companies are considering moving some of their carbon fabrication to China, but there are a lot of variables. Some companies in other sectors are withdrawing from China as it is a blemish on the product name.


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

FightingIllini said:


> My 2006 Orbea Vuelta says made in Spain.


Orbea's carbon frames are made by Martec in Taiwan, as are Kuota and Kestrel frames along with a lot of others. As far as I know Orbea still makes the aluminum frames in Spain.


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

Just for clarity's sake...since some people confuse Taiwanese manufactured bikes with Chinese manufactured bikes...

I think I should point out that Taiwan and China have vastly different laws and standards regulating manufacturing, environment and labor. China's regulations and standards are more lax and official corruption has hollowed out the legal enforcement of laws that protect the end user. 

Furthermore both countries have vastly different industrial histories and cultures, with Taiwan's labor and manufacturing culture heavily influenced by the Japanese following 50 years as a Japanese colony and over 100 years of industrial development independent from China (1895-Present).


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Dajianshan said:


> Team Murray is correct.
> 
> Unless it is a steel bike... it is likely from Taiwan. Colnago, Pinarello, Bianchi, De Rosa, Orbea... carbon or Aluminum... they are made in Taiwan. Taiwan Pride!


Only Colnago's lower model CF frame in made in Taiwan. Bianchi top caqtbon line is also made in Italy. Everyhting esale form Bianchi in CF or Alum in from Taiwan.

Again, Taiwan is building some of the best CF frames out there IF you go with the top 3-4 factories like Martec, Topkey and Keinesis.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Dajianshan said:


> Just for clarity's sake...since some people confuse Taiwanese manufactured bikes with Chinese manufactured bikes...
> .


Ture. But SCOTT and Cervelo and made in the same plant in Mainland China.


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## ChuckUni (Jan 2, 2003)

Team Murray said:


> In the Italian shoe and apparel industry (normal fashion, not cycling) , they are trying hard to maintain the "Made in Italy" branding. They have import Chinese laborers to Italy. So the label should read, "Made in Italy...by Chinese".


S&M (bmx bikes) had the slogan "Made in the USA.....by Mexicans."


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## Team Murray (Jul 17, 2007)

*Outsource Mfg. Roll Call*

Someone has compiled a list of the who and where made...
http://allanti.com/page.cfm?PageID=328


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## QQUIKM3 (Apr 20, 2008)

*Excellent point!*



Team Murray said:


> In short, just because a bike is made in Asia does not mean it is a lesser bike than one made in Europe or the US.


I sold my "Italian" made Colnago C50 for a 2008 Wilier Le Roi that's made by Topkey in Taiwan. Sorry to bust euro-snobs bubbles, but IMO and plenty of other people, the Taiwanese know how to work with carbon fiber better than anyone. My Wilier from my observations as an engineer, tells me it's of better construction than the Colnago was. Euro made carbon framesets are little more than an overpriced joke.


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## shorelocal (Jan 12, 2007)

Team Murray said:


> Re: BH frames
> There is a guy on ebay selling a generic version of the BH frame.


Like this? eBay Linky


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## QQUIKM3 (Apr 20, 2008)

*Exactly. .*



DIRT BOY said:


> Again, Taiwan is building some of the best CF frames out there IF you go with the top 3-4 factories like Martec, Topkey and Keinesis.


I was astounded at the attention of detail on my Topkey made Wilier Le Roi. . The paint, the clear-coating, the carbon layup. . just everything was flawless.


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## Slow Eddie (Jun 28, 2004)

Rubber Lizard said:


> ... The hard and fast rule is that if its a monocoque carbon frame its made in Asia. There are exceptions, but few with monocoque frames, such as some Looks and De Rosas.


I think Aegis frames are stil made in Maine. Not Europe, I know, but an exception to the rule.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

I think me and another poster mentioned it above in this thread, but the link fails to note that Look frames are now primarily manufactured at a Look-owned factory in Tunisia.


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## Bianchi67 (Oct 16, 2005)

This link has been posted many time before ... but still good to read if you haven't already.


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

Scott is a Giant... a Taiwanese manufacturer.


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## Rubber Lizard (May 10, 2007)

While everyone sits and claims 'bike brand A is built by this company' the sad truth is that very few people know who manufacturers a bicycle companies frames. Companies are very secretive about their suppliers so even well known industry insiders don't know who makes what. You can do quite a bit of sleuthing and inference that this frame was built say by Martec, or Giant, but the truth is you really won't find too much hard evidence of who built the frame out there. Some companies, such as Willier advertise who builds their frames and seem to take it as a source of pride as to who builds their frames overseas but most are very secretive. To make matters worse different models are often built by different companies.
So to say that all frames are built by Giant or Martec or Advanced, or something along those lines is often quite wrong but something most of us do from time to time. 
The good news for the consumer is there is massive amounts of competition between all the various bicycle factories. The various factories compete viciously amongst each other for contracts from OEMs and the end result is exceptional quality and from most manufacturers, so in the end it doesn't matter where your frame was originally made.


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## Pieter (Oct 17, 2005)

Sheesh! 

At least my Schwinn Peloton proudly says 'Made in Taiwan' near the BB. No arguments there. 
The all-carbon fork is made by Carbon Tech, frame probably also.

No arguments either about my Leader aluminum frame - selected exclusively on price back then, and it turned out to be sweet-riding, yet stiff and durable (paintwork excluded..).


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Rubber Lizard said:


> While everyone sits and claims 'bike brand A is built by this company' the sad truth is that very few people know who manufacturers a bicycle companies frames. Companies are very secretive about their suppliers so even well known industry insiders don't know who makes what. You can do quite a bit of sleuthing and inference that this frame was built say by Martec, or Giant, but the truth is you really won't find too much hard evidence of who built the frame out there. Some companies, such as Willier advertise who builds their frames and seem to take it as a source of pride as to who builds their frames overseas but most are very secretive. To make matters worse different models are often built by different companies.
> So to say that all frames are built by Giant or Martec or Advanced, or something along those lines is often quite wrong but something most of us do from time to time.
> The good news for the consumer is there is massive amounts of competition between all the various bicycle factories. The various factories compete viciously amongst each other for contracts from OEMs and the end result is exceptional quality and from most manufacturers, so in the end it doesn't matter where your frame was originally made.


Pretty true. Some models can be made by X and others by X.

As long as you know X model is coming for the top guys, you as a CF or alumim frame that is about as good as it gets.

I do know that Cervelo and SCOTT and made in the same place in China froma SCOTT enginner. I forgot the same though. These are for CF cervelo and the Addict/CR road and Scale/Genius/Ransom CF frames for SCOTT.


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## velomoto (Oct 6, 2005)

*Eastern European*

_FORT_ Made in the Czech Republic

http://www.fortframes.com/


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## QQUIKM3 (Apr 20, 2008)

*It's common knowledge. . .*



Rubber Lizard said:


> Some companies, such as Willier advertise who builds their frames and seem to take it as a source of pride as to who builds their frames overseas but most are very secretive.


That the Wilier Cento and Le Roi are made by Topkey.


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## Flat Out (Aug 9, 2007)

QQUIKM3 said:


> I sold my "Italian" made Colnago C50 for a 2008 Wilier Le Roi that's made by Topkey in Taiwan. Sorry to bust euro-snobs bubbles, but IMO and plenty of other people, the Taiwanese know how to work with carbon fiber better than anyone. My Wilier from my observations as an engineer, tells me it's of better construction than the Colnago was. Euro made carbon framesets are little more than an overpriced joke.


I have to disagree with you. I have a C50 and it's not "an overpriced joke". It was worth every cent.


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