# 2018 UCI World Championships



## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

It looks like the competition started off with a bit of a surprise in the women's TTT. Kind of hoping BMC can pull off the final big win as a team on the men's TTT side. Rohan Dennis and Dumoulin are my favorites for the men's ITT. Nibali, Kwiatkowski, and Alaphillippe are my favorites for the men's road race. We'll see though. 

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/uci-road-world-championships-2018/womens-team-time-trial/results/


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Your picks plus I'd add Castroviejo for the men's ITT.

Nibali has said he's given leadership of the Italian team to Moscon.

This is the year Valverde will finally get the gold medal to give him a complete set of medals and that elusive rainbow jersey.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

I think Alaphillipe takes the win on Sunday. I'm pegging Dennis in the ITT today.


The racing so far, has been great. The U23 Men's TT was pretty awesome with Berg demonstrating that he's got huge talent with a repeat. He'll be a contender with the big boys as he grows. I think he did well in TOC when he got a chance to race against the WT guys. The Juniors TT's were both pretty good as well.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

TricrossRich said:


> I think Alaphillipe takes the win on Sunday. I'm pegging Dennis in the ITT today.
> 
> 
> The racing so far, has been great. The U23 Men's TT was pretty awesome with Berg demonstrating that he's got huge talent with a repeat. He'll be a contender with the big boys as he grows. I think he did well in TOC when he got a chance to race against the WT guys. The Juniors TT's were both pretty good as well.


Everything I am seeing is saying that Dennis or Dumoulin are most likely to win it. That kind of makes me feel like someone else will sneak in there and surprise both of them though (Kung, Campenaerts, van Emden, Tony Martin, etc.). We'll see, but the course does seem to suite Dennis with that nasty climb. Watching now.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Great racing today from so many guys. You are batting 100% so far. It was fun to see TVG and Rosskopf give it a real go as well.


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## AlanE (Jan 22, 2002)

I enjoyed the feature on Hamish Bond (rower turned cyclist) since rowing is my other sport. He finished 25th overall.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

Rashadabd said:


> Great racing today from so many guys. You are batting 100% so far. It was fun to see TVG and Rosskopf give it a real go as well.


The climb was wicked... I didn't realize just how bad it was until the motorbike basically followed Kung up the whole time and he was crawling. It was painful watching him bleed time on that climb. I thought Tom D would have more today. I knew this course wasn't going to be a good one for straight up power guys like Tony Martin or Ryan Mullen, but the long flat in the beginning still required lots of steam. I'm wondering if he's perhaps shed too much power to improve his GC hopes and wasn't quite there on that section. He seemed to be equal on the climb section to Dennis, but was down early and didn't pull anything back. I was impressed by Campanaerts. He's really shown some stuff in the last year and half. I thought that Kwiato might do pretty well, but I think he also gave up some on the flat section.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

I thought Dennis might win this and the top were basically what was expected in one order or another. Campanaerts was impressive. I was also impressed with how well Oliveira of Movistar did. One other note, Castroviejo said after the ITT that was the best watts he's ever put out in an ITT for that length of time and he finished 6th.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

KoroninK said:


> I thought Dennis might win this and the top were basically what was expected in one order or another. Campanaerts was impressive. I was also impressed with how well Oliveira of Movistar did. One other note, Castroviejo said after the ITT that was the best watts he's ever put out in an ITT for that length of time and he finished 6th.


Kwiato posted the same thing yesterday... best power he's done for a TT that long. 52Km with that climb is really brutal. I've done 40k twice and both experiences, I would classify as the most painful riding experiences I've had... your body is just wasted after a maximum effort for an hour.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

TricrossRich said:


> Kwiato posted the same thing yesterday... best power he's done for a TT that long. 52Km with that climb is really brutal. I've done 40k twice and both experiences, I would classify as the most painful riding experiences I've had... your body is just wasted after a maximum effort for an hour.


I just hope Kwiatkowski didn’t empty his tank so much that he has nothing left for Sunday. It sounds like Dumoulin might have. He referred to himself as a broken man at this point.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

My goodness Remco Evenepoel!!!! Has pro cycling seen a kid this exciting since Sagan joined Cannondale? I guess Pidcock is pretty good too, but this kid looks amazing.


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## HFroller (Aug 10, 2014)

Rashadabd said:


> My goodness Remco Evenepoel!!!!


He only started cycling in april 2017 ... Before he played football (soccer). 
I understand he's riding for Quickstep next season. He's an amazing talent, but he's still got a lot to learn. At the moment, he just rides until everybody behind him gives up or drops dead (he won the European Championship on the road with almost 10 mins.)

Won't work in the pro peloton, though. I hope he gets the time to mature and learns to lose.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Kwiatkowski may have emptied too much into the TT to be good for Sunday.

On the other hand the Spanish national men's team is currently stuck in Madrid due to the airlines having delayed a flight from Granada to Madrid and then refused to allow them to board the flight to Munic, which was still sitting there and last call for passengers was still on the board to get onto the plane. It then took the team several hours of arguing the the airline to get any flight out of Madrid, which they finally got for tomorrow morning to arrive sometime late morning early afternoon in Innsbruck. They are not happy and now have lost at least a day and a half of training instead of just a day and they don't know if they'll even be able to ride the Worlds course because of the airlines.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

HFroller said:


> He only started cycling in april 2017 ... Before he played football (soccer).
> I understand he's riding for Quickstep next season. He's an amazing talent, but he's still got a lot to learn. At the moment, he just rides until everybody behind him gives up or drops dead (he won the European Championship on the road with almost 10 mins.)
> 
> Won't work in the pro peloton, though. I hope he gets the time to mature and learns to lose.


Yeah I heard them discussing that during the race. Given the recent success Quickstep has had developing Alaphilippe, Gaviria, Jungles, Mas, Kwiatkowski, and others, I am confident they have accurately assessed where he is and will handle his development appropriately. I can’t wait to see how good he can become.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

What a great day of racing... the girl's junior race was super exciting. She won that race, took it from them. It's impressive to see the smart racing decisions and tactics from someone that only has two road races under her belt. 

Remco! Wow.. stunning victory.. staggering even. He's lived up to the hype. If Specialized made a Remco bike, I'd buy it! just insane.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

What a great cycling day! Watched Van Der Breggen kick some tail this morning (man she is ridiculous as well), went on a nice 36 mile ride after, now back home watching Jingle Cross. Cycling is good stuff man.


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## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

Going out on a limb with Roglic or a young Colombian. Not on a limb? Alaphillipe


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

upstateSC-rider said:


> Going out on a limb with Roglic or a young Colombian. Not on a limb? Alaphillipe


Roglic definitely has a chance. I am sticking with my original assessment. Alaphilippe, Kwiatkowski, or Nibali.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Make of this comment what you wish. Valverde said today that he is better rested coming into the Worlds than he has been for several years. He also has not been downplaying his chances of winning, which is unusual for him. He's actually very confident going into this race, which is also odd as we are talking about a rider who has suffered from a lack of confidence pretty much his entire career.

Also Enric Mas said today that he and Alejandro have both recovered well and are rested for the race.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Wow! Great racing by all of the guys in the front four. An incredible win by the timeless Valverde. It’s truly an amazing victory. Has anyone ever won this late in their career before? Pleasant surprise from Woods as well. Good stuff all around.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Peter Sagan = class act


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

Unbelievable


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

OMG!!!! Awesome win. Have cried tears of joy today. Also ran to the grocery store to buy a cake to celebrate! I am so happy for him. Today he cemented his legacy as well. In his comments after the race he said he still has some time left to race. Now he can retire and be at peace.

Rashadabd, yes there is one rider who won it at almost 39 years old so a few months older than Alejandro. Alejandro becomes the 2nd oldest rider to win the rainbow jersey. He also added to his record for most medals at the Worlds while completing his set along with extending the record for most years between first and most recent Worlds podium.


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## El Scorcho (Dec 14, 2005)

Valverde, you magnificent Spanish bastard! 

I was really happy to see Bardet and Woods right there as well, strong riding all the way around.


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## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

While at work I only have access to the cyclingnews text feed and have to admit, I was seriously pulling for Tom D when it looked like he was closing in on the front group but to no avail. 
Congrats to Valverde, smart racing today.


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## The Moontrane (Nov 28, 2005)

KoroninK said:


> OMG!!!! Awesome win. Have cried tears of joy today. Also ran to the grocery store to buy a cake to celebrate! I am so happy for him. Today he cemented his legacy as well. In his comments after the race he said he still has some time left to race. Now he can retire and be at peace.
> 
> Rashadabd, yes there is one rider who won it at almost 39 years old so a few months older than Alejandro. Alejandro becomes the 2nd oldest rider to win the rainbow jersey. He also added to his record for most medals at the Worlds while completing his set along with extending the record for most years between first and most recent Worlds podium.


7, seven, SEVEN podium finishes in the RR! I hope you enjoyed the cake, my friend! 
I’m smelling another win at La Doyenne.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

An interesting take on the race. I can’t say I agree 100%, but I understand where he is coming from though. I guess my feelings are that if he’s served his ban and hasn’t failed any additional tests, he gets to race period. If he gets to race, I have no problem with him winning. 

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/10/i-wish-valverde-hadnt-won/


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## cq20 (Mar 24, 2007)

Sad day for cycling. That win is alongside Cobo’s and Horner’s at the Vuelta for me. 

As said elsewhere - Great to see some fresh blood being introduced


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## Wetworks (Aug 10, 2012)

Rashadabd said:


> An interesting take on the race. I can’t say I agree 100%, but I understand where he is coming from though. I guess my feeling is that if he’s served his ban and hasn’t failed any additional tests, he gets to race period. If he gets to race, I have no problem with him winning.
> 
> https://cyclingtips.com/2018/10/i-wish-valverde-hadnt-won/


I agree with the writer down the line. My mind was made up when he started out-sprinting some of the sprinters in other races. JMO, so don't eviscerate me for it. 



cq20 said:


> Sad day for cycling. That win is alongside Cobo’s and Horner’s at the Vuelta for me.
> 
> As said elsewhere - *Great to see some fresh blood being introduced*


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Wetworks said:


> I agree with the writer down the line. My mind was made up when he started out-sprinting some of the sprinters in other races. JMO, so don't eviscerate me for it.


Like I said, I get it and agree to some degree. I just end up in different place after reflecting about the big picture. Your feelings (and the author’s) are legitimate in my book though.


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## El Scorcho (Dec 14, 2005)

Rashadabd said:


> Like I said, I get it and agree to some degree. I just end up in different place after reflecting about the big picture. Your feelings (and the author’s) are legitimate in my book though.


I understand why some would continue to dislike him after his ban, but I'm a believer in second chances. 

I like Valverde, I like his style, he has always had a magnificent talent. One could argue that in a cleaner peloton his talent would be more pronounced.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

El Scorcho said:


> I understand why some would continue to dislike him after his ban, but I'm a believer in second chances.
> 
> I like Valverde, I like his style, he has always had a magnificent talent. One could argue that in a cleaner peloton his talent would be more pronounced.


That’s basically where I ended up as well. In the next five years or so, the last of the doping era should be retired. Hopefully the sport will have learned something by then or it might not exist as we know it today. Either way, I can’t fault what I have to accept as a clean Valverde currently for something that happened years ago absent new information suggesting he is still doping. I have a harder time with Froome and Sky right now than I do Valverde honestly.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

If we take away a dark spot in his history, the man does have amazing set of skills, dope or not. Not too many guys are like him. It's easier to dope a GC up and turn him into a podium contender than to build up a rider to be like a Valverde (or Sagan). I'm not a particular fan of Valverde myself, but I can't deny his unique skills that virtually no other guys in the pro peloton has. Is there any kind of doping program that make you both a good climber and a good sprinter at the same time? I want it.

Dumoulin, Woods, Bardet weren't gonna outsprint Valverde.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Yeah, guys like Alaphilippe or Kwiatkowski had to make that group for anyone to have a chance at beating him. The sprinters/cobbled classics guys can’t climb with him, so it had to be another Ardennes specialist type of guy and those dudes didn’t make the front four so game over.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Alaphilippe has a chance to out sprint Valderde. But Kwiatkowski, slim chance.

The guy just have a wicked kick for a short steep uphill sprint. It's like a 5000m runner who could also run a 100m almost as fast as the pure 100m runners. That's genetics abnormally that no amount of doping is gonna give


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

aclinjury said:


> Alaphilippe has a chance to out sprint Valderde. But Kwiatkowski, slim chance.
> 
> The guy just have a wicked kick for a short steep uphill sprint. It's like a 5000m runner who could also run a 100m almost as fast as the pure 100m runners. That's genetics abnormally that no amount of doping is gonna give


Not true at all. You must have forgot the time Kwiatkowski outsprinted both Alaphilippe and Sagan to win Milan San Remo. 

https://www.velon.cc/en/news/2017/03/milan-sanremo-race-report?mode=native


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Rashadabd said:


> Not true at all. You must have forgot the time Kwiatkowski outsprinted both Alaphilippe and Sagan to win Milan San Remo.
> 
> https://www.velon.cc/en/news/2017/03/milan-sanremo-race-report?mode=native


yes, after Sagan did the donkey's work to pull away with the other 2 riding his tail


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

aclinjury said:


> yes, after Sagan did the donkey's work to pull away with the other 2 riding his tail


Ok, believe whatever you need to. There’s this little gem too in case you want to reconsider. 

Kwiatkowski lays down Tour of Flanders marker with E3 Harelbeke victory | Cyclingnews.com

(Wrong link before).


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

aclinjury said:


> yes, after Sagan did the donkey's work to pull away with the other 2 riding his tail


There’s this as well:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...l-kwiatkowski-wins-amstel-gold-race/26029427/


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Valverde has a very unique skill set. Not one anyone else has. Sagan is the closest. When Valverde turned pro the peloton thought he was a sprinter. That's how good of a sprinter he actually is and in his younger days he did participate in field sprints much more than what he does today. At la Vuelta in 2002 when he was pulled out of the race as had been the plan from the start he made the comment, I'm coming back here next year to win it. Riders in the peloton asked his DS at the time, Isn't that a bit ambitious for a sprinter? At that point the peloton did not believe he could go after Grand Tours. He got his first Vuelta podium in 2003. He has said he has always had a good sprint, but not the sprint of a top level sprinter. He also will tell you he is not and has never been a climber, just that he loves to climb. What is boils down to is that he has the right genetics, he has gifts, he has a love and passion for the sport that at 38 is as strong as it was when he was a toddler and said he would be a pro someday. We all saw that a couple years ago when he broke down crying when he got his Tour podium. Again we saw the raw emotions when he was screaming in joy after winning the Worlds and then before the interviews before the podium ceremony when he broke down crying because he finally got the one win he desperately wanted.

His comments after show this as well. He said he still has some more time to race and that he can now be at peace when he eventually retires. Today he said he's definitely racing two more years. He said he can't wait for Lombardia so he can show off his new rainbow jersey. He said if he could find a race tomorrow or later this week he'd race with the rainbow jersey later this week.

Did he dope, didn't the entire peloton dope when he first turned pro? He's never failed an anti-doping test. His ban comes from one of the blood bags the Italian authorities got their hands on from Operation Puerto. When he was a cadet he won over 50 consecutive races. He had parents begging him to soft pedal so other kids would have a chance to win. Everyone who saw him race, raced with him or against him as a cadet and junior knew he was not just going to be a pro but that he was going to be a star.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

KoroninK said:


> Valverde has a very unique skill set. Not one anyone else has. Sagan is the closest. When Valverde turned pro the peloton thought he was a sprinter. That's how good of a sprinter he actually is and in his younger days he did participate in field sprints much more than what he does today. At la Vuelta in 2002 when he was pulled out of the race as had been the plan from the start he made the comment, I'm coming back here next year to win it. Riders in the peloton asked his DS at the time, Isn't that a bit ambitious for a sprinter? At that point the peloton did not believe he could go after Grand Tours. He got his first Vuelta podium in 2003. He has said he has always had a good sprint, but not the sprint of a top level sprinter. He also will tell you he is not and has never been a climber, just that he loves to climb. What is boils down to is that he has the right genetics, he has gifts, he has a love and passion for the sport that at 38 is as strong as it was when he was a toddler and said he would be a pro someday. We all saw that a couple years ago when he broke down crying when he got his Tour podium. Again we saw the raw emotions when he was screaming in joy after winning the Worlds and then before the interviews before the podium ceremony when he broke down crying because he finally got the one win he desperately wanted.
> 
> His comments after show this as well. He said he still has some more time to race and that he can now be at peace when he eventually retires. Today he said he's definitely racing two more years. He said he can't wait for Lombardia so he can show off his new rainbow jersey. He said if he could find a race tomorrow or later this week he'd race with the rainbow jersey later this week.
> 
> Did he dope, didn't the entire peloton dope when he first turned pro? He's never failed an anti-doping test. His ban comes from one of the blood bags the Italian authorities got their hands on from Operation Puerto. When he was a cadet he won over 50 consecutive races. He had parents begging him to soft pedal so other kids would have a chance to win. Everyone who saw him race, raced with him or against him as a cadet and junior knew he was not just going to be a pro but that he was going to be a star.


Cool, but if you check the links I provided earlier, you will see that Kwiatkowski outsprinted him in a big race too. I am really not posting these things to say Kwiato is the end all be all, even though he is one of my favorite pros, it’s really just to point out that his skill set/genetic makeup may not be as unique as you think. Pros like Valverde, Kwiatkowski, Gilbert, and Alaphilippe are are pretty similar IMO and I think their palmares confirm that. There are a few riders coming behind them like Valgren that might have similar skills as well. Sagan is a completely different kind of rider in my book. 
To each his own though.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Great race! I was rooting for Roglic or Tom D. Tom D almost got it done. Twice he showed he had no legs left after chasing down the lead group to get on. Great race by Woods and Bardet! Sagan was a class act! I think Peter will be back, maybe when we get another moderate route? He tried to lean out and target this as his primary goal, but look at the guy on the podium with the winners, he’s huge!


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

PBL450 said:


> Great race! I was rooting for Roglic or Tom D. Tom D almost got it done. Twice he showed he had no legs left after chasing down the lead group to get on. Great race by Woods and Bardet! Sagan was a class act! I think Peter will be back, maybe when we get another moderate route? He tried to lean out and target this as his primary goal, but look at the guy on the podium with the winners, he’s huge!


Roglic and Tom D were really solid choices. I personally think Roglic is there if didn’t crash and Tom D is probably in the mix if he hadn’t raced hard to podiums in two grand tours and the ITT at Worlds. Such is life as a pro bike racer though.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

I didn't mention Kwiatkowski and who has a faster sprint. Depends on the situation as they have out sprinted each other at different times. The fact still remains that when Valverde turned pro it was thought he was a sprinter and did participate in field sprints (which he occasionally still does). What sets Valverde apart from Kwiatkowski, Gilbert, and Alaphilippe is that he is a better climber and his GT and stage race results prove that. In a way Sagan is almost a mirror of Valverde. Both have a unique skill set. With Alaphilippe, he is does remind me and many others of a young Valverde and I've even seen some calling him Balaphilippe for that reason. He just isn't as good of a climber as Valverde is yet.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Rashadabd said:


> Ok, believe whatever you need to. There’s this little gem too in case you want to reconsider.
> 
> Kwiatkowski lays down Tour of Flanders marker with E3 Harelbeke victory | Cyclingnews.com
> 
> (Wrong link before).


Believe whatever I need to? No I don't need to believe any fairy tale. Your video showed that Sagan towed the other 2 to the line, but even coming to that point in the video Sagan had already been pulling them away from the chasing peloton. It's more of a case Sagan running out of gas than Kwaikowski beating him. That was the case for that race.

For the case of World RR, the gradient of the sprint was steeper. And in this case, everyone knows Valverde and Alaphillippe both have wicked kicks at the end of such steep gradient, much more than Kwiakowski does.

I was commenting these two races specifically. I did not say that Kwiakowski couldn't ever win against Sagan or Valverde or anyone in any race, as you seemed to take it. As they say, different horses for different courses.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

aclinjury said:


> Believe whatever I need to? No I don't need to believe any fairy tale. Your video showed that Sagan towed the other 2 to the line, but even coming to that point in the video Sagan had already been pulling them away from the chasing peloton. It's more of a case Sagan running out of gas than Kwaikowski beating him. That was the case for that race.
> 
> For the case of World RR, the gradient of the sprint was steeper. And in this case, everyone knows Valverde and Alaphillippe both have wicked kicks at the end of such steep gradient, much more than Kwiakowski does.
> 
> I was commenting these two races specifically. I did not say that Kwiakowski couldn't ever win against Sagan or Valverde or anyone in any race, as you seemed to take it. As they say, different horses for different courses.


I don't understand why you're insisting that the World's RR sprint was steep? The finish of that race was dead flat, you realize that, right? Don't get me wrong. I'm not denying that Valverde is good at sprinting uphill. He is, but that's not why he won the WC RR. He played it smart... he had the power at the end of the race because he waited patiently to attack. Woods put in the big dig over the top of the steep climb, Valverde stayed out the wind and did what he needed to do, to win... much in the way that Kwiato did at MSR. I'm not saying that either of them didn't deserve those wins. They played the chess match. That is bike racing.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

TricrossRich said:


> I don't understand why you're insisting that the World's RR sprint was steep? The finish of that race was dead flat, you realize that, right? Don't get me wrong. I'm not denying that Valverde is good at sprinting uphill. He is, but that's not why he won the WC RR. He played it smart... he had the power at the end of the race because he waited patiently to attack. Woods put in the big dig over the top of the steep climb, Valverde stayed out the wind and did what he needed to do, to win... much in the way that Kwiato did at MSR. I'm not saying that either of them didn't deserve those wins. They played the chess match. That is bike racing.


Exactly. He’s working really hard not to have to admit he was wrong. The point is Kwiatkowski can sprint with Valverde and Alaphilippe just fine. In fact he has beat both of them in a sprint before. End of story.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

aclinjury said:


> Believe whatever I need to? No I don't need to believe any fairy tale. Your video showed that Sagan towed the other 2 to the line, but even coming to that point in the video Sagan had already been pulling them away from the chasing peloton. It's more of a case Sagan running out of gas than Kwaikowski beating him. That was the case for that race.
> 
> For the case of World RR, the gradient of the sprint was steeper. And in this case, everyone knows Valverde and Alaphillippe both have wicked kicks at the end of such steep gradient, much more than Kwiakowski does.
> 
> I was commenting these two races specifically. I did not say that Kwiakowski couldn't ever win against Sagan or Valverde or anyone in any race, as you seemed to take it. As they say, different horses for different courses.


Not that it matters for this particular conversation, but you are wrong about Kwiatkowski's uphill kick as well.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

TricrossRich said:


> I don't understand why you're insisting that the World's RR sprint was steep? The finish of that race was dead flat, you realize that, right? Don't get me wrong. I'm not denying that Valverde is good at sprinting uphill. He is, but that's not why he won the WC RR. He played it smart... he had the power at the end of the race because he waited patiently to attack. Woods put in the big dig over the top of the steep climb, Valverde stayed out the wind and did what he needed to do, to win... much in the way that Kwiato did at MSR. I'm not saying that either of them didn't deserve those wins. They played the chess match. That is bike racing.


the climb leading into it was 28%, which took out a lot of guys. I consider the 28% as part of the equation to the sprint.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Rashadabd said:


> Not that it matters for this particular conversation, but you are wrong about Kwiatkowski's uphill kick as well.


yeah he beat a young Sagan after sitting on sagan's wheel the entire time. 

So why didn't Kwaik sit on Valverde's wheel going up that 28% in World RR and then outsprint Valverde then? Kwaik can sprint, but I'm saying his kick is not at the same level as Valverde when the going is really steep, or that there is a really steep grinder (eg, 28%) leading into a sprint. Yeah, a 28% grinder has the effect of burning your legs that you have nothing left at the line! Honestly, you don't need to show me videos of Kwai sprinting any further.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

aclinjury said:


> yeah he beat a young Sagan after sitting on sagan's wheel the entire time.
> 
> So why didn't Kwaik sit on Valverde's wheel going up that 28% in World RR and then outsprint Valverde then? Kwaik can sprint, but I'm saying his kick is not at the same level as Valverde when the going is really steep, or that there is a really steep grinder (eg, 28%) leading into a sprint. Yeah, a 28% grinder has the effect of burning your legs that you have nothing left at the line! Honestly, you don't need to show me videos of Kwai sprinting any further.


Ok, lol. I'll just accept that as acknowledging Kwiatkowski can sprint with Alaphillipe and Valverde. Being wrong about something on here doesn't make you a bad person man. It's ok really. It happens to all of us. Kwiatkowski and Sagan are the same age by the way.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

aclinjury said:


> the climb leading into it was 28%, which took out a lot of guys. I consider the 28% as part of the equation to the sprint.


Oh.. for sure, that 28% climb took a lot of guys OUT of the race, but I guarantee you that none of them would've called that race with an uphill sprint finish. That 28% climb was 4 miles from the end. It broke the race up, but it was NOT an uphill sprint. not even remotely.

As far as Valverde, Sagan, Kwiato and Alaphilipe are concerned, I'd consider them all in the same category, but at different ends of the spectrum. Sagan is nearer the sprinter end of the spectrum and Valverde/Alaphilipe are near the climber end of the spectrum. Kwiato, I think, falls somewhere in between and has been moving toward the climber end as the years have gone by.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

TricrossRich said:


> Oh.. for sure, that 28% climb took a lot of guys OUT of the race, but I guarantee you that none of them would've called that race with an uphill sprint finish. That 28% climb was 4 miles from the end. It broke the race up, but it was NOT an uphill sprint. not even remotely.
> 
> As far as Valverde, Sagan, Kwiato and Alaphilipe are concerned, I'd consider them all in the same category, but at different ends of the spectrum. Sagan is nearer the sprinter end of the spectrum and Valverde/Alaphilipe are near the climber end of the spectrum. Kwiato, I think, falls somewhere in between and has been moving toward the climber end as the years have gone by.


I think I mostly agree. I just see Sagan as a different kind of rider completely. I view him as the king of the sprinters that can climb. To me, he's cut from the same cloth as Thor Hushovd and Tom Boonen. Kristoff in his prime and Bling Matthews are other guys I would put in in this category. Despite the magnificent rides he has put in on Mt. Baldy and some other climbs, I just don't ever see Sagan really challenging for Ardennes wins for instance, but he can sprint with bunch sprinters and leave them in the dust if any climbing is involved. 

Another guy that is similar to Valverde, Kwiato, Alaphillipe, and Gilbert that I failed to mention was Simon Gerrans. I used to love watching that guy race in his prime. Hushovd too.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

Rashadabd said:


> I think I mostly agree. I just see Sagan as a different kind of rider completely. I view him as the king of the sprinters that can climb. To me, he's cut from the same cloth as Thor Hushovd and Tom Boonen. Kristoff in his prime and Bling Matthews are other guys I would put in in this category. Despite the magnificent rides he has put in on Mt. Baldy and some other climbs, I just don't ever see Sagan really challenging for Ardennes wins for instance, but he can sprint with bunch sprinters and leave them in the dust if any climbing is involved.
> 
> Another guy that is similar to Valverde, Kwiato, Alaphillipe, and Gilbert that I failed to mention was Simon Gerrans. I used to love watching that guy race in his prime. Hushovd too.


Yea... I hear you on those points. I can agree with that.


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