# "Modernizing" a Shimano 600 groupset



## jordo_99 (Apr 15, 2011)

I just bought a used bike with Shimano 600 components (everything except brake levers) and I'm very happy with it but I'd really like to look into the idea of upgrading the index/frame shifters to "brifters" (brake + shifter).

I could care less about the front shifter but the rear one is a pain with all the hills around here.

I've done quite a bit of research and rather than try to find 7-speed STI shifters I'm thinking about swapping out the cassette with something like an 8-9 speed and then getting the appropriate STI shifter for that.

*
Anyone know if the old Shimano 600 (6400) series Rear Derailer will work with 8+ speed cassettes?*


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## 3v1lD4v3 (May 11, 2009)

> Anyone know if the old Shimano 600 (6400) series Rear Derailer will work with 8+ speed cassettes?


Yes, it will. You're going to need a new wheel and likely respacing of the frame in addition to the brifters. Don't forget a new chain.


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## jordo_99 (Apr 15, 2011)

thanks for the quick reply.

I was planning on replacing the steel frame at the same time I would be replacing the index shifting so that doesn't bother me much.


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## RussellS (Feb 1, 2010)

Rear derailleur will work fine with STI 9-10 speed. You will need the right STI and a new freehub body for the wheel. Going under the assumption its a Shimano rear hub, you cvan buy a 9-10 freehub body for $30-40 or so. Easy to swap. Then you can fit 8-9-10 cassettes onto it.

In another post you said you are replacing the frame. Why did you buy this used bike? It seems you bought it for just a few of the components. Very old components.


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## jordo_99 (Apr 15, 2011)

For $300, I wasn't going to find a better bike...I could go on about how I didn't want to spend more than that for a new bike is crappy sora components but it's pretty pointless.

The bike that's in extremely good condition for how old it is (~25 years...my age, haha) and with pretty good components for a very good price.

I basically bought this bike so that I have something with pretty decent to train with over the summer and then come winter, when I will have more money to throw around, I can start swapping out the few parts that aren't ideal (in my opinion, frame and shifters) with higher end parts and have a solid bike by the time the snow melts and hopefully have the equivalent (in quality, though used) of a $1500 bike for half the price.


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## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

RussellS said:


> Rear derailleur will work fine with STI 9-10 speed. You will need the right STI and a new freehub body for the wheel. Going under the assumption its a Shimano rear hub, you cvan buy a 9-10 freehub body for $30-40 or so. Easy to swap. Then you can fit 8-9-10 cassettes onto it.
> 
> In another post you said you are replacing the frame. Why did you buy this used bike? It seems you bought it for just a few of the components. Very old components.


Don't forget a new axle. I don't think he's gonna have enough axle sticking out from the ends of the locknuts to be safe in the frame.

While you *can* get a new FH body, its probably easier to get either a new wheel or relace a new hub into that old wheel. Reuse spokes/nipples and its fairly inexpensive. 

HTH

M


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## vladvm (May 4, 2010)

get bar-end pods for the shifters and cable stops for the downtube bosses. you then move the levers to the bar-end pods so you don't lose the indexing. they are major upgrade from downtube shifters. I commute in hilly areas and they work fine. 

You can go STI but really expensive conversion. Plus don't forget that you have to shorten the stem since STI have a bit more reach.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

MShaw said:


> Don't forget a new axle. I don't think he's gonna have enough axle sticking out from the ends of the locknuts to be safe in the frame.
> 
> While you *can* get a new FH body, its probably easier to get either a new wheel or relace a new hub into that old wheel. Reuse spokes/nipples and its fairly inexpensive.
> 
> ...


A seven speed axel is long enough. You don't need that much sticking out. I've done it, and Sheldon Brown said the same thing.

A new freehub body (or a rescued free one off an old busted Shimano hubbed wheel) will allow you to mount 7-10 speed cassettes.

I'd recommend using either 8 speed, because the cassettes and chain are cheap and plentiful, or going all the way to 10. Microshift has Shimano compatible and very nice brifters for under $150 in 8, 9 and 10. Check Nashbar for the 10s, ebay for the rest.


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## Slow Eddie (Jun 28, 2004)

Straight-up 600, or 600 Ultegra (6400 series components)? 6400 was an 8-speed group with STI levers available and 130 mm spaced hubs that should work with any Shimano-splined cassette.


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## jordo_99 (Apr 15, 2011)

I'll probably just go with an 8-speed Cassette and brifters since this is just a training bike and I rarely use the lowest or highest gears at the moment anyways. I don't use the lowest (easy gears I think?) because it's only hilly here in the midwest...nothing incredibly tough to climp, and the highest I don't use because my legs haven't developed enough for biking yet.

Thanks a lot for the advice everyone. More advice is always welcome too if you want to add/emphasize information.


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## jordo_99 (Apr 15, 2011)

they must be the old 600's. I'm at work right now so I can't look at them but it's a 7-speed cassette and index shifters.


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## jordo_99 (Apr 15, 2011)

I'll definitely look into bar end shifters. Not quite as convenient as STI but it should help ease my nerves when shifting. It's definitely not fun trying to shift/ride one-handed while going downhill at 30MPH (not that fast, but with the crappy road maintenance here it can get pretty sketchy).


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## jordo_99 (Apr 15, 2011)

They're the older 600's. I'm at work right now so I can't look at them but I know it's a 7-speed cassette and index shifters.


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## Slow Eddie (Jun 28, 2004)

Look around for Kelly Take-Offs. They are mounts for downtube shifters that put them inboard of your brake levers, kinda where the button is on campy ergopower shifters.

Modolo also made (makes?) the Morphos brifters that had swappable innards - supposedly compatible with various iterations of shimano and campy drivetrains. You might have to do a little more research to see if they'll work with 7-spd, though.

Good hunting.


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## jordo_99 (Apr 15, 2011)

Slow Eddie said:


> Look around for Kelly Take-Offs. They are mounts for downtube shifters that put them inboard of your brake levers, kinda where the button is on campy ergopower shifters.
> 
> Modolo also made (makes?) the Morphos brifters that had swappable innards - supposedly compatible with various iterations of shimano and campy drivetrains. You might have to do a little more research to see if they'll work with 7-spd, though.
> 
> Good hunting.


Thanks for the info. I'll look into it just for the fun of it and learning.

I actually found a great deal on a Dura Ace 9-speed cassette (7700) and set of Ultegra 9-speed brifters (6510) that should work together.

Now I just need to get a chain and possibly a free hub (if I don't have one already...I didn't bother checking beforehand since it was $65) and I should be good to go.


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## impoverishedcyclist (Apr 12, 2011)

600 (6400/6401/6402) was first generation ultegra. It came in both 7 and 8 speed, the 7 speed being indexed DT shifters and 8 speed being STI shifters. If you have a 7 speed cassette you might be able to put in an 8 speed cassette depending on the freehub. In that case you would need the shifters. That being said, 600 STI shifters sell for as much as 10 speed 105 shifters so you might want to consider just going 10 speed since it won't cost that much more. You can sell the 6400 rear derailleur for enough to buy a newer derailleur as well. 

Honestly if you're planning on changing the frame, shifters, (wheel(s)?) and everything, you might as well just keep the bike as it is then save up for a fully modern bike. I've been there and done that


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## jordo_99 (Apr 15, 2011)

impoverishedcyclist said:


> 600 (6400/6401/6402) was first generation ultegra. It came in both 7 and 8 speed, the 7 speed being indexed DT shifters and 8 speed being STI shifters. If you have a 7 speed cassette you might be able to put in an 8 speed cassette depending on the freehub. In that case you would need the shifters. That being said, 600 STI shifters sell for as much as 10 speed 105 shifters so you might want to consider just going 10 speed since it won't cost that much more. You can sell the 6400 rear derailleur for enough to buy a newer derailleur as well.
> 
> Honestly if you're planning on changing the frame, shifters, (wheel(s)?) and everything, you might as well just keep the bike as it is then save up for a fully modern bike. I've been there and done that


Thanks for the advice.

I actually got a pair of Ultegra 6510 STI shifters and a dura ace 7700 cassette for $65. The shifters are banged up a bit, yet work just fine, but the cassette has no wear at all.

Now that I've got the shifter-solution I wanted I'm very happy with the bike and really don't feel the _need _to upgrade anything else. Of course, I still _want _a new frame/fork/wheelset but I'm just going to use downtime at work to browse around for deals. At that point I just won't be making an compromises (mostly money-wise) on what I'm willing to get so I'll just upgrade as the perfect item at the perfect price comes along. It will be a slow process but should be worth it.

I'll end up using all the original parts to put together a commuter bike as well.


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