# PF30 to T47 - Has anyone done it?



## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

I'm considering buying a Ti frame that's PF30, and was wondering if anyone has done the T47 conversion. From what I've read it's fairly involved and somewhat risky, as well as expensive, and I'd have to find someone willing to do it. My guess is there are no available taps to do this yourself (and I probably wouldn't want to do it anyways)?


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## Da_Reverend (Dec 9, 2015)

I am aware my reply is not precisely addressing your request but I cannot resist to ask why?

PF30 may not be the perfect BB spec but the fact that some people have issues doesn't mean it generally does not work. With a metal frame properly machined according to the specs I would try a PF30 setup rather than bothering with a risky, irreversibe and costly conversion which might not be necessary.

Regarding any noise issue with BB30/PF30: Maybe it is more important to look at the spindle / bearing (inner race) interface - rather than the frame / BB cup interface that T47BB is addressing. Bottom brackets with plastic sleeves between spindle and inner race might be the solution to many BB30/PF30 creaking issues ...


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## oberwil (Jun 18, 2005)

I don't think I would do the conversion. And I'm not sure it's possible. Here's why. The T47 is basicly a Threaded BB that takes a 30mm spindle. The concept is that PF sucks. With T47 you get the advantage of a threaded shell with the stiffer modern 30mm spindle.
Well that means you need to cut threads in a Titanium shell. That's the first difficult part. And I'm not sure there's enough metal to make threads since the shell is smooth already?? Or Am I missing anything hear??


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## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

Let me know if you find a tap. I'm looking for one. If I were you and could find a tap I'd talk the builder into doing it.


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## bdaghisallo1 (Sep 25, 2007)

I would ask this question again in six months. I think White Industries just showed an image of their first T47 taps. I wouldn't imagine there are more than a handful of taps out there.

Ask the builder of your frame or a local TI builder if you can find one in your area.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

Since you haven't bought your frame yet, why not just go threaded bb? In the Ti world its still widely supported from builders.


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## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

The advantage of T47 (BB30 or BB386 width) over BSA is if you want the narrower, lighter BB30 cranks or if you're a frame builder and want to take advantage of an 86mm wide BB shell for a massive downtube. In the case of your frame you can ignore the second one so if you want to run Shimano cranks get BSA. If you want Sram or something else available with a BB30 axle why not go with the bigger diameter, shorter, lighter axle and get the narrow version of T47?


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

Lelandjt said:


> The advantage of T47 (BB30 or BB386 width) over BSA is if you want the narrower, lighter BB30 cranks or if you're a frame builder and want to take advantage of an 86mm wide BB shell for a massive downtube. In the case of your frame you can ignore the second one so if you want to run Shimano cranks get BSA. If you want Sram or something else available with a BB30 axle why not go with the bigger diameter, shorter, lighter axle and get the narrow version of T47?



not sure what problem is being solved here, but sure....


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

The frameset I was looking at was the Litespeed G5 Gravel, which was on sale for about $1600 with the fork... I passed because of the PF30 BB, mostly because all my bikes are BSA and I really don't want to buy any more tools than necessary. If someone has suggestions for thru-axle Ti disc road frames that are BSA and support 29er wheels and in the same price range please share them!


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## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

DrSmile said:


> The frameset I was looking at was the Litespeed G5 Gravel, which was on sale for about $1600 with the fork... I passed because of the PF30 BB, mostly because all my bikes are BSA and I really don't want to buy any more tools than necessary. If someone has suggestions for thru-axle Ti disc road frames that are BSA and support 29er wheels and in the same price range please share them!


There's been enough reports of creaky PF30s that I'd get not buying a bike because of that but not buying it because of a tool? First off you don't need a tool to install a PF30. A hammer and a block of wood will do. If you want to run Shimano cranks get that Praxis thread-together BB everyone loves and if it doesn't come with a wrench buy one (probably under $25) or pay a shop to put it in.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

Great misinterpretation of my post there Einstein. I am really really starting to hate this place.


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## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

Trek_5200 said:


> not sure what problem is being solved here, but sure....


You quoted a long post and weren't very specific with your question so I'll try to cover all bases.

T47 vs Press Fit: Some people just don't want a press fit BB. T47 has all the same options of BB30/PF30/BB386/BB86 but uses threads. It does add some weight and cost so if you don't mind press fit that could still be considered better. If you think the above standards are awesome except for the press fit part T47 is for you.

T47 vs BSA: BSA can't take the narrow, light BB30 cranksets. There are 30mm axle cranks available for BSA but they use normal length axles and bigger external cups to house the bigger bearings. If you wanted to find the lightest crank setup that isn't press fit T47 68mm is it.
Next, BSA limits the shell width to 68mm. BB86 and BB386 offer a lot of real estate for wide, stiff down tubes and seat tubes or widely spaced chainstays. If that is a design criteria but your marketing team is warning you of a consumer backlash against press fit than T47 86mm is the answer.

So, if you have BSA and don't mind external bearings and not being able to use BB30 cranks than T47 does nothing for you. If you have PF30 or BB30 that doesn't creak you're stoked, light + cheap =  Ignore T47.

Now to answer your question: If you want BB30 cranks, internal bearings, or a wide BB shell but NO PRESS FIT than T47 _solves your problem._
If you're a frame maker commited to BB30, PF30, or BB386 but fear a press fit boycott, threading those shells is a lot cheaper and easier than changing your frame design. _problem solved_

So T47 isn't gonna change the world but it eliminates press fit for people who don't want it but want some of the options it offers that BSA doesn't.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

DrSmile said:


> The frameset I was looking at was the Litespeed G5 Gravel, which was on sale for about $1600 with the fork... I passed because of the PF30 BB, mostly because all my bikes are BSA and I really don't want to buy any more tools than necessary. If someone has suggestions for thru-axle Ti disc road frames that are BSA and support 29er wheels and in the same price range please share them!


this thread was making sense up until this post.


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## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

DrSmile said:


> I passed because of the PF30 BB, mostly because all my bikes are BSA and I really don't want to buy any more tools.


I don't see any other way to interpret this and neither does _bikerjulio._ This is a conversation via the written word. If you are misunderstood it might be the writer's fault. Do you want to restate your post? Or just beat it since you _really really_ hate this place.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

Is it that hard to follow? The PF30 may squeak, at which point I need taps, and a T47 install tool... I'd also need tools for the bigger crank, like the Campy over-torque tool, which isn't cheap. Of course I could run a regular crank but then I'm back to just getting a BSA frame in the first place....


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

This article manages to damp down any expectation that retro threading of an existing PF30 frame will be a simple, or cheap, task. It additionally makes the point that manufacturers such as Praxis already have excellent solutions for Shimano/SRAM/Campy in a PF30 shell. T47 looks like a good solution for OEM Ti or Alloy frames using BB30 or BB386 evo cranksets. None of the carbon frame manufacturers seem interested in reintroducing alloy sleeves.



> Proponents of T47 are quick to point out that owners of problematic metal frames equipped with PF30 shells can be immediately retrofitted. By design, T47 threads can be cut directly into a PF30 shell with no additional changes – although actually doing so is easier said than done. And as any veteran shop mechanic will attest, there’s also no guarantee of success even if you do everything right.
> 
> One of t47's biggest obstacles may be that good solutions for creaky press-fit frames already exist. by threading the cups to each other, even persistently noisy frames can quiet down nicely: one of t47's biggest obstacles may be that good solutions for creaky press-fit frames already exist. by threading the cups to each other, even persistently noisy frames can quiet down nicely
> 
> ...


T47 vs press-fit bottom brackets - BikeRadar


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

I went with a Praxis system for my cross frame that came with PF30. It was easy to install (once I had the tools) and has been a set-and-forget solution. No creaking.


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## rcb78 (Jun 15, 2008)

I'm using the Torqtite BB from Enduro on my PF30 frame with a 386EVO crank and it works perfectly. Another friend is using the same setup with a BB30 crank on a steel PF30 frame, same thing, it works. On my road bike, I'm not even doing that much, I just installed the BB30 bearings the way I always do, and like all my other installs, it's quiet.
In my experience, it's rare to have a creaking BB when it's installed properly. The few that I've come across that continue to creak (actually only one in 4 years now, out of maybe a hundred or so) was resolved with a two part threaded BB like Praxis or Enduro.
I guess what I'm saying is I would never NOT buy a frame I wanted for something as simple as a BB format.


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

bikerjulio said:


> This article manages to damp down any expectation that retro threading of an existing PF30 frame will be a simple, or cheap, task. It additionally makes the point that manufacturers such as Praxis already have excellent solutions for Shimano/SRAM/Campy in a PF30 shell. T47 looks like a good solution for OEM Ti or Alloy frames using BB30 or BB386 evo cranksets. None of the carbon frame manufacturers seem interested in reintroducing alloy sleeves.
> 
> 
> 
> T47 vs press-fit bottom brackets - BikeRadar


+1 as usual.
While T47 looks like a good future option there are plenty of other options out there that will work just fine.


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