# Pinarello Dogma F8 frame cracks



## DogmaF8 (Jul 22, 2015)

Wondering if anybody with an authentic Pinarello Dogma F8 has experience any cracks in the frame? At least two areas to look are the bottom of the seat stay and the bottom side of the down tube. If you notice any fine white lines that appear to be scratches, I would like to hear from you.
Regards,


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## gabriel94565 (Apr 27, 2014)

it sounds to me like it could possibly just be a paint issue due to the compliance of the frame. if there wasn't a flex additive added to the paint or clearcoat on the frame, it can begin to crack as the frame flexes.


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## DogmaF8 (Jul 22, 2015)

Love my Pinarello's also have a 60.1 which has been great but I have had two issues with my F8 frame. The first on the bottom of the right seat stay. Pinarello replaced the frame without any questions and I appreciate that, but I never got a follow up after the frame was sent back and x-rayed. If this was a problem area it would be nice to know it was addressed. The most recent crack is under the bottom of the down tube. Thought initially the white line was part of the decal but further inspection shows a crack. Currently waiting for word back from Pinarello on this one.


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## PinarelloF8 (Feb 11, 2016)

I got a crack at the bottom of the right seat stay after 6 month - approx 4000 km. During a training there was a short stop and immediately afterwards the bike felt heavy and unresponsive. 
I couldn't find the reason at first but after 5 km I stopped to investigate thoroughly and found a crack. When handing the bike in at the dealer they found more cracks higher up on the seat stay. 
I waited 4 months where the frame was sent to the distributor and Italy before I got a new frame - apparently more due to the long waiting time than recognising that there maybe were an issue with the strength of the seat stay (or just a bad day at work for a taiwanese blue collar worker). 
Anyway - I was happy to get a new frame and hope the workers had a better day at work when making the new frame.


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## DogmaF8 (Jul 22, 2015)

I have since cracked a second frame! This time in the middle of the down tube. Crack measured about 6" in length. Only noticed it while cleaning the bike. This time around it took Pinnarello about 2 months to replace it. So I'm on my third F8 frame. The only feeling of comfort I'm getting that this frame MIGHT be better, is it's of the second batch released. Both of the first frames were the first batch release were black in color. The only color offered at the time. The latest bike is red.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

are these dogmas made of paper?


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## DogmaF8 (Jul 22, 2015)

There is obviously a problem with the first batch of F8 frames. I was told my bike was released at the same time as the team bikes. I'm sure the teams experienced problems as well but we would never know. I think one of the reasons you don't hear much about it is because Pinnarello is replacing the frames. It would be nice if you got some feedback from the company stating changes have been made or some manufacturing issues were detected but nothing. I was told my frames would be X rayed and I would be given a report of what was found but nothing. At the end of the day we want our frames replaced and the company is doing that, so it's water under the bridge for most.
I hope my new frame is solid but I won't know for sure until the Spring when I get off my rain bike (Seattle weather).


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

You have a lot more patience than I would in this situation. This is unsat for a $5K frame. Maybe pick up a inexpensive steel bike that you can ride for the months waiting on the next replacement


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

DaveG said:


> This is unsat for a $5K frame.


Paying over $1,200 for a Chinese frameset like a Pinarello is just crazy. You can get a hand made Time for less. Chinese aren't known for their quality control. Get a Giant if you want an Asian frame. BTW. . Sucks about the cracks. Hopefully they warranty it.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Dogmas are made in Taiwan, not China. And there's a big difference between China and Taiwan. And at this point, I even dare to say that for carbon fiber bicycles, nobody does it better than the Taiwanese, not even boutique shops, and certainly not after you factor in cost. But every now and then, anyone will run into QC issues if they're producing enough products. If any American or European produces in the quantity like the Taiwanese do, then they too will run into more QC issues.

I have not heard much about F8s having issues with cracking. Maybe the OP just got a bad batch. It happens.

For pricing, I know in Asia, one can get an F8 for under $4000, easily. Apparently, taxes in Asia is lower than in the EU and North America. Virtually every mass produced highend frame that is sold in EU and North America can be had at a lower price if you buy in Asia. Europeans and Americans are really getting reamed with taxes. But that's how it is.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

you just don't hear a lot of stories about pinarellos with cracks. sounds very odd.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Notvintage said:


> Chinese aren't known for their quality control.


That's an overgeneralization from our resident Sinophobe. 

The major brands that build bikes in China and Taiwan have excellent quality control.



aclinjury said:


> Dogmas are made in Taiwan, not China. And there's a big difference between China and Taiwan.


Excellent point.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

lots of generalizations, such as ignoring whether Pinarello opted for in-house testing at the firm contracted to build or went with an independent lab. i'm guessing Pinarello did the latter.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Notvintage said:


> Paying over $1,200 for a Chinese frameset like a Pinarello is just crazy. You can get a hand made Time for less. Chinese aren't known for their quality control. Get a Giant if you want an Asian frame. BTW. . Sucks about the cracks. Hopefully they warranty it.


I'm not sure which side of the equation I find more humorous. The reliance on stereotypes to determine everything from China sucks or the one that assumes things from France don't.

Dude, if you're going to shoot from the hip and base your comments on stereotypes you might want to do a little looking into the history and perception of French manufacturing.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

My view of China is that these are large factories and small independent factories. The culture of bike building in China is not remotely comparable to what you find in the U.S., U.K. or italy with small frame builders.


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

Trek_5200 said:


> you just don't hear a lot of stories about pinarellos with cracks. sounds very odd.


That could simply be that there are not that many of them compared to Treks, Spesh and Dales.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

DaveG said:


> That could simply be that there are not that many of them compared to Treks, Spesh and Dales.


I actually know of a couple cases (not trying to imply that's anything but an anecdote). In both cases it was a mid tier model that got replaced no questions asked and quickly with a Dogma. So naturally you're not going to hear from these guys complaining.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

I imagine there are plenty of Pinarello (and other brands) frames that are replaced under warranty, and the owners never broadcast the process on the internet.

Really, if you have a frame under warranty and it's replaced by the manufacturer, then why the need to publish in a discussion forum?


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

tvad said:


> I imagine there are plenty of Pinarello (and other brands) frames that are replaced under warranty, and the owners never broadcast the process on the internet.
> 
> Really, if you have a frame under warranty and it's replaced by the manufacturer, then why the need to publish in a discussion forum?


If would much rather have a frame that doesn't break than relying on customer service to continually replace busted frames. Perhaps one reason is that when people spend thousands of dollars on a high-end frame and it breaks they don't want to admit it. I believe that is called post-purchase rationalization


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

aclinjury said:


> are these dogmas made of paper?


Yes, they are made from cotton fiber paper to be exact. Approximately $5,500 worth of it.



Notvintage said:


> Paying over $1,200 for a Chinese frameset like a Pinarello is just crazy. You can get a hand made Time for less.


Frames coming out of China/Taiwan are hand made as well. All bikes frames are hand made. The one that wasn't (BMC Impec) is now dead.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

deleted


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

tvad said:


> Lots of hyperbole in this post..._"continually replace"_..._"and it breaks"_.
> 
> Some of what owners complain of carbon breaks is simple cracking in the material that is used to smooth over joinery. Think of Spackle as a metaphor. These aren't structural issues with the frames, but nervous owners think they are. Cervelo had a problem like this back in 2010-2011 where cracks were showing at the bottom bracket on some of their frames. Many of the cracks weren't structural, but rather cosmetic. I was told this by the owner of Spyder Composites who repaired one of these cosmetic cracks on my 2010 Cervelo R3. He told me it was fairly common.
> 
> I don't think not posting about warranty replacements on the internet has anything to do with not wanting to admit a flaw on a frame. I think it's just people who don't spend any time posting on the internet for any reason.


The OP said he's on his 3rd frame in less than a year. If the manufacturer replaced them I think its safe to assume it was not cosmetic. Hopefully Pinarello resolves this issue and the OP gets a frame that lasts for as long as he wants


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

DaveG said:


> The OP said he's on his 3rd frame in less than a year. If the manufacturer replaced them I think its safe to assume it was not cosmetic. Hopefully Pinarello resolves this issue and the OP gets a frame that lasts for as long as he wants


You're right. I skipped all the posts in between. My apologies.


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

aclinjury said:


> Dogmas are made in Taiwan, not China. And there's a big difference between China and Taiwan.


Yes, there is a 1,300 mile difference.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

"Made in Taiwan" is often not that as well, they're often finished there, you know the tricks. Cambodia, Vietnam, China, the Taiwanese are no strangers to outsourcing themselves, they're not dumb.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Notvintage said:


> Yes, there is a 1,300 mile difference.


sounds like ignorance but whatever it's the internet


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## PinarelloF10 (Jan 29, 2018)

Hallo, I just got a fine white lines and a crack in the frame of my new F10 bike after less then 4 weeks... I just notice it while cleaning my bike after a standard road ride, no accident or fall. it is down on the back of seat tube (behind the wheel) in the middle between the top and down tubes.
The response I got so far from Pinarello that its not under warranty!!! (its my first Pinarello so Im not femiliar with their service)
Does yours cracks were around the same location ? does it happen with no special event ?


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

When you buy the bike you have to quickly register it with them on their website to have the proper warranty.

Show us pictures of the white lines so we can help.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

MMsRepBike said:


> When you buy the bike you have to quickly register it with them on their website to have the proper warranty.
> 
> Show us pictures of the white lines so we can help.


what if you don't have internet? no proper warranty then? and if so, do pinarello sellers post a sign warning potential buyers of this? Very odd policy IMO


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## PinarelloF10 (Jan 29, 2018)

MMsRepBike said:


> When you buy the bike you have to quickly register it with them on their website to have the proper warranty.
> 
> Show us pictures of the white lines so we can help.


I did register the bike, but they claim it's not under their warranty. They have some kind of crash replacement program to buy a new one discounted...
attached two pictures of the white line on the side and the crack behind the wheel.
As mentioned it is after about 4 weeks of riding with no special event...


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

I maybe see what they're saying. Maybe saying it's been caused by some sort of accident, maybe without you knowing.

Maybe the bike was on top of a car and the seat hit something when you were going under, something like that.

To me the damage looks very severe and I would not ride that bike. It needs to be properly repaired before being ridden safely again.

It's possible that it's just the outer layers that have been damaged but I'd get it checked out by a professional personally.


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## PinarelloF10 (Jan 29, 2018)

MMsRepBike said:


> I maybe see what they're saying. Maybe saying it's been caused by some sort of accident, maybe without you knowing.
> 
> Maybe the bike was on top of a car and the seat hit something when you were going under, something like that.
> 
> ...


I understand what you are saying but I take the bike only safely in the car and the location of the crack is very weird, behind the wheel, while all the rest around is clean from any damage...I don't expected that in this level of frame something like a stone from the road, as one suggested, will cause such a damage. Only if there is some kind of problem with the frame. I ride bikes many years and never saw something like that. It's very frustrating and I was expected to different level of service and responsibility from company as Pinarello.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

PinarelloF10 said:


> I understand what you are saying but I take the bike only safely in the car and the location of the crack is very weird, behind the wheel, while all the rest around is clean from any damage...I don't expected that in this level of frame something like a stone from the road, as one suggested, will cause such a damage. Only if there is some kind of problem with the frame. I ride bikes many years and never saw something like that. It's very frustrating and I was expected to different level of service and responsibility from company as Pinarello.


i'm sorry man but your frame is damaged. You should be steaming thru your ears from Pina's answer. How you managed to stay civil in your posts thus far is amazing temper control. You're not the first one to have a big manufacturer brush off a damaged frame as user's accident. Damn read so many horror warranty stories from people. I'm guessing your saga with Pina will only gets worse from here on out. Bet you didn't read the fine print of the warranty huh? It's the manufacturer's discretion if a damage is their fault or user's fault. Go figure.


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## exracer (Jun 6, 2005)

This is the reason why I have never bought a carbon Pinarello. Seems like every post I've seen where someone has a problem with one of their carbon frames, their attitude seems to be "it's not us, it's you". Which leads to the question of: why offer a warranty if you are not going to honor it? Sorry about your bike. That really sucks.


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## imflyboy (Oct 31, 2018)

Hi, new user on the forum. I hate to have this as a first post but i was hoping to see if anyone had more information on 2015 F8 frame cracks. I recently found a crack on the bottom of the drive side chain stay. The bike was sent in to the Pinarello US distributor for examination. They found an additional crack on the seat stay and have denied the warranty claim saying the bike has been involved in an impact. I haven't been involved in any kind of impact and am obviously disappointed they're not covering the frame. I don't know exactly how they make this determination but you'd think anything severe enough to damage the frame would be accompanied by crushing of the resin or a rashed frame and the impact wouldn't have gone unnoticed. I bought the frame new in 2017 and I would have thought I'd get a little more use out of a high end frame like this. Anyway, I was hoping to see if anyone else has had a similar issue and how Pinarello handled the warranty claim.

Thx!


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

imflyboy said:


> Hi, new user on the forum. I hate to have this as a first post but i was hoping to see if anyone had more information on 2015 F8 frame cracks. I recently found a crack on the bottom of the drive side chain stay. The bike was sent in to the Pinarello US distributor for examination. They found an additional crack on the seat stay and have denied the warranty claim saying the bike has been involved in an impact. I haven't been involved in any kind of impact and am obviously disappointed they're not covering the frame. I don't know exactly how they make this determination but you'd think anything severe enough to damage the frame would be accompanied by crushing of the resin or a rashed frame and the impact wouldn't have gone unnoticed. I bought the frame new in 2017 and I would have thought I'd get a little more use out of a high end frame like this. Anyway, I was hoping to see if anyone else has had a similar issue and how Pinarello handled the warranty claim.
> 
> Thx!


sigh... another sad story
I'm sorry but I'd be very surprised if Pina will warrant your frame based as they've have already made up their mind that it's user's crash. I'll bet those Pina guys know that a crack at the chainstay could compromise the structure of the bike leading to the ensuing crack of the seatstay too; afterall, the rear is a triangle and a break in one leg is well conceivably lead to another leg.

But here's some relatively good news. My buddy has an F8 and he got into a crash (yes, this is a legit crash) and fractured majorly the chainstay, seatstay, and part of the seattube. He sent his bike in to a local repairer (https://www.element6.us/) and they were able to repaired all cracks, repainted the repair spots (it was solid white, color may cost more), everything came out to be $600. No one could even tell the frame has been repaired, not even closely examining it with your eyes and fingers. So yes while it sucks that Pina is doing their best to skirt their warranty, your frame is easily repairable.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Of course no one ever crashes their bikes, nor does anyone ever drop anything on the bike or do anything else that might damage it. Everyone (generally) is deny, deny, deny. That said, a few will admit to something happening that isn't covered by a warranty. We only ever get one side of the story here, that the warranty has been denied. Some manufacturers will deny claims because they see tons of claims and know how damage occurs and what it looks like. Some will deny legit warranty claims. 
Without seeing your frame and the damage there is no way anyone here can offer any real advice. Damage from the outside (non-warranty) and damage that is the result of a defect of some kind generally look pretty different. Post some photos and some of us that are in the industry can have a look.


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## imflyboy (Oct 31, 2018)

Thanks for the replies. I certainly wouldn't expect any company to pay for my stupidity. I raced motorcycles for awhile and never expected Kawasaki to pay for crash damage. In fact I spent a large sum putting my bike and my body back together after crashes. The crack on the seat stay had been there for some time. It never occurred to me that it was a crack. I've had one carbon part on a motorcycle fail and the defect in the carbon wasn't visible until it cracked through the resin. It seems reasonable to me that the carbon had a defect the frame would have to carry loads in ways that it wasn't designed for. The bike has been well maintained and I'd have thought I'd have been aware of an impact severe enough to crack the carbon. Anyway, I appreciate the replies, I'm just hoping to see if I'm an outlier here.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

looking at the bottom brack cracks, I believe it could be a manufacturing defect. Unfortunately, it is extreme difficult to almost impossible to prove if a carbon part has failed to do to a crash or manufacturing defect once that carbon part has been broken up pretty bad (like your bike). If you somehow had the fore-vision that your bike was going to fail due to manufacturing defect, you could have it under an ultrasound scan and the scan would pick up voids (holes) within the carbon layers or delamination from the inside out (due to wrinkling of the carbon layers). But of course this sort preemptive scan is almost impossible for an end user to execute, and bike warranty department knows this.

If it were me, I'd demand their warranty department explain to me why they would attribute the failure to a crash. Did they tell you why they think like that? Ask the why. If they cannot explain to you, or if they explain it in an absolute way like "our frames cannot never fail like that", then they're kicking the bucket. Take them to small claim court, and they will lose. As long as there is a possibility in manufacturing defect, there is a possibility of failure. Making a carbon fiber frame is a very process-dependent construction that relies exclusively on human laying down the layers and then the ballasts. I don't even think it's possible for 1 person to make 2 carbon frames in exactly the same way due to the variation inherent in the process. Honeslty, I wish my frame would fail ala JRA style because I'm itching to take anyone to court to have them prove it to me. At the very minimum, at least in court I will at least get one of their experts to explain to me in a technical manners and not their warranty waterboy just telling me my frame fail because I crashed it (when there are no visible crash damage).

This expert explains "JRA" (just riding along) failures






Note: I assume that you're here in good faith and not trolling us for reasons/arguments to pull a dodgy on the warranty when you have crashed and not tell us about it.


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## fronesis (Jan 22, 2014)

Everyone who trolls the China-direct thread – saying that all those frames are garbage and asking why anyone would ever buy a frame that wasn't warrantied by a big-name manufacturer – should be forced to read through threads like this first. 

It's not surprising that even the top-brand frames sometimes crack – it's the nature of the material. But if they are going to sell bikes for those prices, they ought to back up their warranty and take care of their customers.


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## imflyboy (Oct 31, 2018)

aclinjury said:


> looking at the bottom brack cracks, I believe it could be a manufacturing defect. Unfortunately, it is extreme difficult to almost impossible to prove if a carbon part has failed to do to a crash or manufacturing defect once that carbon part has been broken up pretty bad (like your bike). If you somehow had the fore-vision that your bike was going to fail due to manufacturing defect, you could have it under an ultrasound scan and the scan would pick up voids (holes) within the carbon layers or delamination from the inside out (due to wrinkling of the carbon layers). But of course this sort preemptive scan is almost impossible for an end user to execute, and bike warranty department knows this.
> 
> If it were me, I'd demand their warranty department explain to me why they would attribute the failure to a crash. Did they tell you why they think like that? Ask the why. If they cannot explain to you, or if they explain it in an absolute way like "our frames cannot never fail like that", then they're kicking the bucket. Take them to small claim court, and they will lose. As long as there is a possibility in manufacturing defect, there is a possibility of failure. Making a carbon fiber frame is a very process-dependent construction that relies exclusively on human laying down the layers and then the ballasts. I don't even think it's possible for 1 person to make 2 carbon frames in exactly the same way due to the variation inherent in the process. Honeslty, I wish my frame would fail ala JRA style because I'm itching to take anyone to court to have them prove it to me. At the very minimum, at least in court I will at least get one of their experts to explain to me in a technical manners and not their warranty waterboy just telling me my frame fail because I crashed it (when there are no visible crash damage).
> 
> ...


Thx for the reply. No bad faith here. This is the 1st issue I've had on a bicycle and I didn't know if I'm out in left field. I'm going to follow up on the warranty and in the meantime look at getting it repaired. There's a guy nearby who has been recommended. I'll try and post something once it's all settled.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

aclinjury said:


> looking at the bottom brack cracks, I believe it could be a manufacturing defect. Unfortunately, it is extreme difficult to almost impossible to prove if a carbon part has failed to do to a crash or manufacturing defect once that carbon part has been broken up pretty bad (like your bike). If you somehow had the fore-vision that your bike was going to fail due to manufacturing defect, you could have it under an ultrasound scan and the scan would pick up voids (holes) within the carbon layers or delamination from the inside out (due to wrinkling of the carbon layers). But of course this sort preemptive scan is almost impossible for an end user to execute, and bike warranty department knows this.
> 
> If it were me, I'd demand their warranty department explain to me why they would attribute the failure to a crash. Did they tell you why they think like that? Ask the why. If they cannot explain to you, or if they explain it in an absolute way like "our frames cannot never fail like that", then they're kicking the bucket. Take them to small claim court, and they will lose. As long as there is a possibility in manufacturing defect, there is a possibility of failure. Making a carbon fiber frame is a very process-dependent construction that relies exclusively on human laying down the layers and then the ballasts. I don't even think it's possible for 1 person to make 2 carbon frames in exactly the same way due to the variation inherent in the process. Honeslty, I wish my frame would fail ala JRA style because I'm itching to take anyone to court to have them prove it to me. At the very minimum, at least in court I will at least get one of their experts to explain to me in a technical manners and not their warranty waterboy just telling me my frame fail because I crashed it (when there are no visible crash damage).
> 
> ...


Interesting. I'm thinking there is also the possibility of rock/pebble strikes either from being kicked up by your own wheel or by a passing vehicle. It happens. I know the underside of my Synapse carbon fork has quite a bit of pitting on it from road debris. A larger object could conceivably cause a crack.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

fronesis said:


> Everyone who trolls the China-direct thread – saying that all those frames are garbage and asking why anyone would ever buy a frame that wasn't warrantied by a big-name manufacturer – should be forced to read through threads like this first.
> 
> It's not surprising that even the top-brand frames sometimes crack – it's the nature of the material. But if they are going to sell bikes for those prices, they ought to back up their warranty and take care of their customers.


back 5+ years ago, I used to blast the chinese aliexpress frames, saying that they are cheap and not quality and break easily. Yes, that was the case. I live part time in Asia and I know A LOT of people there riding cheap chinese frames or cheap chinese carbon components and YES I've seen many times that these frames and components have literally break apart in spectacular fashion resulting in real serious injuries. Every amateur racer in Asia knows this. Today, the chinese aliexpress stuff are better, but... they are still not at the same level as say a Giant or any of the Bigs. But in light of how arbitrary the Bigs can be toward a warranty and how the chinese frames have improved over the years, I've shifted my opinion to "it's acceptable to buy chinese" as long as you know it's a disposable part and don't expect any service at the price you're paying. But if you're planning to use a bike to race, then I still will not buy generic chinese frames and components, because I'm still seeing a lot of catastrophic failures with devastating injuries from amateur racers using these components in Asia. You're better off buying a used brand name or even aluminum.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Lombard said:


> Interesting. I'm thinking there is also the possibility of rock/pebble strikes either from being kicked up by your own wheel or by a passing vehicle. It happens. I know the underside of my Synapse carbon fork has quite a bit of pitting on it from road debris. A larger object could conceivably cause a crack.


rock strike can happen, but if a rock strike is gonna cause cracks on both chainstays, I would expect some major paint chips too. That area of the bike (bottom bracket & the immediate adjoining chainstay region) is usually layered up pretty thick with the carbon, so it would take a tremendous external rock strike to crack it like that, the sort of strike that is loud and one would definitely feel the impact resonating thru to the feet.


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## fronesis (Jan 22, 2014)

aclinjury said:


> back 5+ years ago, I used to blast the chinese aliexpress frames, saying that they are cheap and not quality and break easily. Yes, that was the case. I live part time in Asia and I know A LOT of people there riding cheap chinese frames or cheap chinese carbon components and YES I've seen many times that these frames and components have literally break apart in spectacular fashion resulting in real serious injuries. Every amateur racer in Asia knows this. Today, the chinese aliexpress stuff are better, but... they are still not at the same level as say a Giant or any of the Bigs. But in light of how arbitrary the Bigs can be toward a warranty and how the chinese frames have improved over the years, I've shifted my opinion to "it's acceptable to buy chinese" as long as you know it's a disposable part and don't expect any service at the price you're paying. But if you're planning to use a bike to race, then I still will not buy generic chinese frames and components, because I'm still seeing a lot of catastrophic failures with devastating injuries from amateur racers using these components in Asia. You're better off buying a used brand name or even aluminum.


I'm not a racer.

I would *never* buy from a random seller on alibaba. I would only buy from the large manufacturers like hongfu dengfu and flyxii.

And I agree entirely, when I buy a china-direct frameset I expect the product to be delivered to specs, and after that – no warranty or service.

That said, my wife and I have a total of about 25,000 miles on 4 different FlyXii frames. Zero problems whatsoever. 

It's your last point that will probably lead me away from china-direct in the future. Today's aluminum frames are so much lighter and more vertically compliant. Plus, on wider tires, the frame material matters even less than it did before (which was never as much as most people thought). I was all set to buy a new Trek Emonda ALR for my wife's next bike, but then Trek raised the prices by almost 20% (tariff-related, I think).


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## tabl10s (Nov 13, 2002)

I'm having a 2015 built right now. I hope no problems arise.


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## l585k (Jul 18, 2007)

*Pinarello F8 front derailleur bracket*

My F8 has a issue with the front derailleur bracket becoming loose. Can I replace the rivets or ?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

l585k said:


> My F8 has a issue with the front derailleur bracket becoming loose. Can I replace the rivets or ?


Why on earth are you posting in a years old thread about _paint_? If the derailleur mount was riveted on in the first place it can be re-riveted.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

the great thing about old threads is that sometime you get to read what you wrote years ago!!  I didn't even realize I wrote in this thread.

But now that I'm here, I'll give an update to one of my posts about my buddy's F8 repair job. It has held up GREAT! $600 bux out of pocket for him for 3 cracked spots. Not bad considering that the alternative option was to trash an F8 frame.



> My F8 has a issue with the front derailleur bracket becoming loose. Can I replace the rivets or ?


Loose rivets can be fixed. You'll probably need to bring it to a carbon repairer though. I'd imagine that the repair process will entail taking out the bracket, smooth up the existing rivit holes, and then putting in new rivets (that may have to be a tad larger since the existing rivet holes might grow just a tad larger now). This can be a simple $100 repair or $300 repair depending on if the repairer has to lay down new carbon layer (let's hope not)!


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