# Real Classy, Cavendish



## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

I didn't get the whole interview after yesterday's sprint.... but he blames his team and lead out and disses another rider who beat him?... A great rider who actually tried all the way to the line. Back when Mark C. first hit the news as a big deal sprinter, I wrote his whanking off to just being a brash kid with fast legs...but now he should know a little better, eh? 
He may be a nice guy in person, but he comes across as a spoiled brat when he opens his mouth in the press...
I don't think Fabian even had a rider up there to help him and he still beat that clown who got dragged all the way to the line by his team, then couldn't be bothered to pedal the last few meters on his own when he saw he was not going to win....poor show, dude...Bet your team didn't care for you blaming them...even if they weren't 100% perfect that time, these guy's busted ass for you...


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## TheSingleGuy (Feb 20, 2009)

And Faboo beat him staying seated in that sprint. And rode 58km today with broken vertebrae. Legend.

Cav is a douchetard not worth talking about, IMO.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Gnarly 928 said:


> I didn't get the whole interview after yesterday's sprint.... but he blames his team and lead out and disses another rider who beat him?... A great rider who actually tried all the way to the line. Back when Mark C. first hit the news as a big deal sprinter, I wrote his whanking off to just being a brash kid with fast legs...but now he should know a little better, eh?
> He may be a nice guy in person, but he comes across as a spoiled brat when he opens his mouth in the press...
> I don't think Fabian even had a rider up there to help him and he still beat that clown who got dragged all the way to the line by his team, then couldn't be bothered to pedal the last few meters on his own when he saw he was not going to win....poor show, dude...Bet your team didn't care for you blaming them...even if they weren't 100% perfect that time, these guy's busted ass for you...


Agreed. I used to like him when he first came on the scene but now, he comes off as a petulant crybaby.


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## joeinchi (Sep 24, 2010)

Yeah ... he definitely gets whiney after a loss :cryin: but I think this might be overblown. 

Cav may have criticized his teammate THIS TIME but he typically refers to Mark Renshaw as the best lead out man in the world. They were teammates at HTC from 2009-11 and reunited last year. In this year's Tour of CA, where Cav won multiple stages, he routinely shared credit with Renshaw.

And besides, I prefer the honesty and passion. It makes for a much more colorful peloton. Just look at Peter Sagan--I barely recognize him. What happened to the "Tourminator?" They either muzzled him or coached him on media relations. Snore 


_EDIT - Renshaw's Reaction:

“I started the leadout a bit early. It was a slow finish, not at high speed,” said Renshaw. “Definitely he had to go a bit early, especially with Greipel and Sagan in the wheel like that.

“It’s a mistake. We’ve won a lot together but it’s a bitter pill to swallow when we messed up like that.”

Mark Cavendish: Renshaw went too early and left me hanging - Cycling Weekly_


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Anyone want to list the top sprinters who were "nice guys"?


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

joeinchi said:


> Yeah ... he definitely gets whiney after a loss :cryin: but I think this might be overblown.
> 
> Cav may have criticized his teammate THIS TIME but he typically refers to Mark Renshaw as the best lead out man in the world. They were teammates at HTC from 2009-11 and reunited last year. In this year's Tour of CA, where Cav won multiple stages, he routinely shared credit with Renshaw.
> 
> ...


Nice to see Renshaw confirm what looked to be obvious from the footage--that they started a little bit too early. Also, the Eurosport commentators said there was a bit of a headwind and that might have factored into it...

Cav has done this before--you can see him take his foot off the gas when he knows he is not going to win. It may even be involuntary--sprinters are not normal riders...


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## joeinchi (Sep 24, 2010)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> Anyone want to list the top sprinters who were "nice guys"?


Sprinters? How many top riders are really that nice?


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

TheSingleGuy said:


> And Faboo beat him staying seated in that sprint. And rode 58km today with broken vertebrae. Legend.


This^. Legend. Hardman barely says it. Amazing.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

il sogno said:


> Agreed. I used to like him when he first came on the scene but now, he comes off as a petulant crybaby.


In just about any field, you get a pass for being a complete jagoff so long as you are brilliant at what you do... Cease having overwhelming superiority over your competition, and the tolerance for said goes way down


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

joeinchi said:


> Sprinters? How many top riders are really that nice?


Zable...

But we are not even talking nice per se as much a professional. Cav was to blame for both the loss AND flicking Tony for the jersey. He could have own that rather than whinge but he did not.


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## joeinchi (Sep 24, 2010)

***SPOILER ALERT WRT TODAY'S ACTION***

Cav is pulling hard for Tony today. Perhaps TM's last, best chance of wearing yellow this year.

He can be an ass--no one's denying that--but I think he can be a good pro, as well. Can't he be both?


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> Anyone want to list the top sprinters who were "nice guys"?


Sagan. Never heard of him being anything other than a cool guy.

Kittel seems like a nice guy. Nice hair too.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

aside from pinching podium girls butts, wearing questionable t-shirts and signing fan's boobs without their consent, and not really being a sprinter, then yes, Sagan is a "nice guy". Would anyone let their daughter date Sagan (I like him a lot as a rider, but come on)?


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

joeinchi said:


> Sprinters? How many top riders are really that nice?


Ryder Hesjedal. He's the nicest guy. Chris Horner was another one I met that went above what he needed to do for his fans.


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## FujiSteve (Nov 12, 2014)

joeinchi said:


> Sprinters? How many top riders are really that nice?


Tony Martin has a nice smile. Obviously I've never met him but I can't think of anyone who has a bad word to say about him.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

love4himies said:


> Ryder Hesjedal. He's the nicest guy. Chris Horner was another one I met that went above what he needed to do for his fans.


I guess it depends on perspective. According to some with internal info (Steve Tilford, for example), both Ryder and Chris have done plenty of "dick moves". Of course that is not incompatible to them saying hello to an occasional fan or signing some autographs. I hear Lance is a super-nice guy.


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## joeinchi (Sep 24, 2010)

Oh, I'm sure there ARE some very nice guys in the peloton, but those are usually the exceptions not the rule. But I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, it's the nature of the beast. AC, Nibbles even Froome and Quintana all can be cutthroat [email protected] when needed but that's a necessity not a character flaw.

And it's not just limited to cycling. Auto racing probably has the highest concentration of pricks at ANY level. Tiger, MJ, Lance, McEnroe even Tom Terrific all have an edge about them. So I don't think Cav's brash, unapologetic style is really much of an issue; he fits right in.

And what's that saying about nice guys? I think it applies to cycling.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Cav is emotional and prone to outbursts after races, but he is also very popular with his teammates by all accounts, and almost always has been. When the storm blows over he mends fences, bucks everyone up and gets ready to go after it again. If he was really such a prick, he wouldn't have been fetching water bottles for teammates last year or pulling over the cobbles for Tony Martin today (seriously, when was the last time you saw a top sprinter pull an inch in any race?), and you wouldn't have seen Wiggins in the yellow jersey leading him out on the Champs Elysees in 2012.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

jlandry said:


> Sagan. Never heard of him being anything other than a cool guy.


as long as he keeps his hands to himself at least


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

joeinchi said:


> Oh, I'm sure there ARE some very nice guys in the peloton, but those are usually the exceptions not the rule. But I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, it's the nature of the beast. AC, Nibbles even Froome and Quintana all can be cutthroat [email protected] when needed but that's a necessity not a character flaw.
> 
> And it's not just limited to cycling. Auto racing probably has the highest concentration of pricks at ANY level. Tiger, MJ, Lance, McEnroe even Tom Terrific all have an edge about them. So I don't think Cav's brash, unapologetic style is really much of an issue; he fits right in.
> 
> And what's that saying about nice guys? I think it applies to cycling.


If you go "all sports" then Wayne Gretzky is a super nice guy. You won't find a single person to say otherwise and he's the best of any athlete in any sport ever. He won plenty of Lady Bing trophies for sportsmanship. But every day, in and out of the sport... Great guy. 

In cycling, Jens.


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## ogre (Dec 16, 2005)

32and3cross said:


> Zable...


And Marcel Wust


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

real jerks in cycling (supposedly, and even more than necessary to succeed): Bouhani. Cadel Evans (yes, Cadel - this is why nobody on his team would ever give him a wheel). Of course, Lance. 
Plus guys nobody wants to sign, no matter how good they are: Di Luca, Leipheimer, Visconti, Ricco, Rebellin, Rasmussen, Sevilla, etc.


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

55x11 said:


> aside from pinching podium girls butts, wearing questionable t-shirts and signing fan's boobs without their consent, and not really being a sprinter, then yes, Sagan is a "nice guy". Would anyone let their daughter date Sagan (I like him a lot as a rider, but come on)?


Well, I'm a nice guy... and you should see me sprint to the buffet table.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

55x11 said:


> real jerks in cycling (supposedly, and even more than necessary to succeed): Bouhani. Cadel Evans (yes, Cadel - this is why nobody on his team would ever give him a wheel). Of course, Lance.
> Plus guys nobody wants to sign, no matter how good they are: Di Luca, Leipheimer, Visconti, Ricco, Rebellin, Rasmussen, Sevilla, etc.


Agree about Cadel. Met him once and he was in one of his "moods". The biggest jacka$$ pro cyclist I've met.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

55x11 said:


> I guess it depends on perspective. According to some with internal info (Steve Tilford, for example), both Ryder and Chris have done plenty of "dick moves". Of course that is not incompatible to them saying hello to an occasional fan or signing some autographs. I hear Lance is a super-nice guy.


If you are talking about "dick moves", I think pretty much every pro cyclist has done that in their career. I can see the adrenaline flowing, fatigue and the drive to win affecting the manners. However, how you treat people on a day to day basis, especially those who have come to watch you and support your sport, speaks volumes to what the real person is like.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

joeinchi said:


> Oh, I'm sure there ARE some very nice guys in the peloton, ...


Yep. Some. 

I never expect it of any pro athlete, given the ego needed to get to the top levels. Individual sports are worse than team, and sprinters are about the most individualistic cyclists on teams (shoulder to shoulder, man v man and all that) Nice to see it when the rare one slips through their rise unscathed.


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## joeinchi (Sep 24, 2010)

Ah ... sharing some love. Maybe he IS a real sweetheart?


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

joeinchi said:


> Ah ... sharing some love. Maybe he IS a real sweetheart?
> 
> View attachment 307406


typical twitter congrats from a teammate. Nothing much


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

love4himies said:


> If you are talking about "dick moves", I think pretty much every pro cyclist has done that in their career. I can see the adrenaline flowing, fatigue and the drive to win affecting the manners.


Pinot had an epic one yesterday. :wink:


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

mpre53 said:


> Pinot had an epic one yesterday. :wink:


He was a dick to the poor kid wrench who gave him a shove to get him going. Personally for all his vitriol, I wouldn't even have given him a push.


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## JaeP (Mar 12, 2002)

aclinjury said:


> typical twitter congrats from a teammate. Nothing much


Well, Cav was one of the first to congradulate Tony Martin for securing the yellow jersey - with a kiss on the cheek (NTTAWWT).


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

mpre53 said:


> Pinot had an epic one yesterday. :wink:


I heard. He's not a happy camper.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Marc said:


> He was a dick to the poor kid wrench who gave him a shove to get him going. Personally for all his vitriol, I wouldn't even have given him a push.


And you would've lost your job. 

Look, this is the hardest sport in the world. The tour is 21 days of complete concentration on this event after a whole season of preparation. When something goes wrong and they're in agony from failing to hang on, it's nothing less than devastating for these guys. None of us would handle it any better.

While the outbursts are what the camera catches and repeats, 95% of the year each and every one of these guys are calm and collected. This sport at the pro level doesn't tolerate stress-prone individuals at all.

To his credit, Cav stated flatly that nothing went wrong today, Griepel simply beat him. No tantrum, just owned it.


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## dcorn (Sep 1, 2011)

I'm sure this is the first of many Cav *****ing threads lol. 

Read his books. He's an emotional guy and when the adrenaline is going, he says what he thinks. Who cares? 

The team decides what is important. If they want stage wins, then Cav is right that Martin or other teammates should have taken a longer pull so that Renshaw didn't have to pull off so soon. Cav was left with like 400m to sprint and that is wayyyyy too far for any pro to go full gas. Watching the overhead view of the finish, I kept waiting and waiting and waiting for the line and said "wow, he went way too early". But he didn't have a choice when his leadout disappeared. 

And for those saying nobody else had a leadout... they were surfing wheels, so basically taking advantage of Cav's train. And remember, when Cav was at Sky, he wasn't getting a leadout either, just doing work for Wiggins trying to win the yellow jersey. So when Cav was without a leadout and forced to surf the wheels of other teams, he still won 3 tour stages. 

As for Tony losing yellow by one second, it sucks that it worked out that way. But Cav knew he didn't have the gas to win the stage and as a team, that's what is important. Tony missing the yellow was just a terrible coincidence, which was made up for on the next stage anyway.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Gnarly 928 said:


> and disses another rider who beat him?


https://twitter.com/MarkCavendish/status/617729571878735872



> Congratulations @AndreGreipel.


What a diss!! Seriously, where do people come up with this stuff? You may not like a guy, but don't make crap up.


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## Corenfa (Jun 9, 2014)

Let's not forget, this is a competitive sport. One in which we saw a 2 minute penalty for a rival team's rider helping someone else out. 

In the grand scheme of things, cycling is a highly courteous sport. To compete at that level, sometimes you make snap decisions that become dick moves. Sometimes you have to do 2 hours of press tours after having ridden the longest stage in the tour and you get tired of answering the same questions.

I'm not saying that Cav can't be a petulant child from time to time. I'm just saying, if we were to compare the private and public lives of the heroes of our sport to that of say, football (US or Euro), basketball, baseball, our guys and gals look like friggin saints. Good athletes, with good attitudes, who work REALLY hard, and have great bonds inside and across teams. 

Nothing makes me happier than seeing competitors in the peloton chatting and laughing amongst themselves. You'd never see that in almost any other team or individual sport.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Corenfa said:


> I'm not saying that Cav can't be a petulant child from time to time. I'm just saying, if we were to compare the private and public lives of the heroes of our sport to that of say, football (US or Euro), basketball, baseball, our guys and gals look like friggin saints. Good athletes, with good attitudes, who work REALLY hard, and have great bonds inside and across teams.


+1 I can't remember the last time a pro cyclist was in the news for murdering someone.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Cav isn't badmouthing his team. He was asked what happened and gave a clear answer. His leadout left him hanging too far from the line. It's there on the video for anyone to see. His analysis is correct. 

He is famous for having a near photographic memory of dozens of major races. If you watch many of his post race interviews he gives precise descriptions, and can recall details of races from years ago. 

Do you want him to make up some fairytale to avoid hurting anyone's feelings?


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

deviousalex said:


> +1 I can't remember the last time a pro cyclist was in the news for murdering someone.


You see "Prize Fighter" Brambilla's fight during the Giro?

There's a reason why.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

dcorn said:


> I'm sure this is the first of many Cav *****ing threads lol.
> 
> Read his books. He's an emotional guy and when the adrenaline is going, he says what he thinks. Who cares?
> 
> ...


Agreed with everything. 
Except on the next stage, Mur de Huy, Cancellara didn't finish but Froome leap-frogged Martin by 1 second to take yellow. Everyone who blamed Cavendish for not delivering yellow to Martin, stopped short of blaming Martin himself for not getting yellow by riding just a little bit harder, just a second or so, up 25% gradient of Mur de Huy.

Sometimes we forget that yellow jersey is not a gift - you must work for it. It was much more fitting in the end to see Martin get it the way he did, by a courageous break, rather than having a teammate Cavendish sprinting for 3rd just so he could hand it to him.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

55x11 said:


> Except on the next stage, Mur de Huy, Cancellara didn't finish but Froome leap-frogged Martin by 1 second to take yellow. Everyone who blamed Cavendish for not delivering yellow to Martin, stopped short of blaming Martin himself for not getting yellow by riding just a little bit harder, just a second or so, up 25% gradient of Mur de Huy.
> .


The time Froome picked up over Martin came in the form of a time-bonus for finishing in 2nd place. Martin could not have finished close enough to erase that on the Muur.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

I have plenty of mixed feelings about Cav, but he is super-thankful to his teammates when they get it right... however, he is pretty dicky/outspoken when things don't go his way. Sometimes that's justified- but not always.
I still dunno WTF he was thinking when he let off and handed Cancellara the maillot jaune. (My guess? He wasn't thinking whatsoever... his training and experience teaches him to just "pull the plug" when it's obvious he won't win. But still- Martin, hello?!)



beavis1960 said:


> ...Leo Durocher said "Nice guys finish last." But then again he was the Cubs manager...


Hmm.. you might need another example- "Leo the Lip" is the 10th most succesful _ALL TIME _baseball manager. He coached some of the greatest teams ever, including the early 40's Brooklyn Dodgers, and early 50's New York Giants.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

davidka said:


> The time Froome picked up over Martin came in the form of a time-bonus for finishing in 2nd place. Martin could not have finished close enough to erase that on the Muur.


ummm... NO. 

Full Results

#	Rider Name (Country) Team	Result
1	Joaquim Rodriguez (Spa) Team Katusha	3:26:54 
2	Christopher Froome (GBr) Team Sky 
3	Alexis Vuillermoz (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale	0:00:04 
4	Daniel Martin (Irl) Cannondale-Garmin Pro Cycling Team	0:00:05 
5	Tony Gallopin (Fra) Lotto Soudal	0:00:08 
6	Tejay Van Garderen (USA) BMC Racing Team	0:00:11 
7	Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Astana Pro Team 
8	Simon Yates (GBr) Orica GreenEdge 
9	Nairo Quintana (Col) Movistar Team 
10	Bauke Mollema (Ned) Trek Factory Racing 
11	Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Movistar Team 
12	Alberto Contador (Spa) Tinkoff-Saxo	0:00:18 
13	Julian Arredondo (Col) Trek Factory Racing	0:00:19 
14	Robert Gesink (Ned) Team LottoNL-Jumbo	0:00:22 
15	Greg Van Avermaet (Bel) BMC Racing Team 
16	Jean-Christophe Peraud (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale	0:00:24 
17	Warren Barguil (Fra) Team Giant-Alpecin 
18	Julien Simon (Fra) Cofidis, Solutions Credits	0:00:28 
19	Rigoberto Uran (Col) Etixx - Quick-Step	0:00:34 
20	Pierre Rolland (Fra) Team Europcar	0:00:36 
21	Romain Bardet (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 
22	Louis Meintjes (RSA) MTN - Qhubeka 
23	Cyril Gautier (Fra) Team Europcar 
24	Ryder Hesjedal (Can) Cannondale-Garmin Pro Cycling Team	0:00:40 
25	Andrew Talansky (USA) Cannondale-Garmin Pro Cycling Team 
26	Tony Martin (Ger) Etixx - Quick-Step


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

I've read the mixed reviews for Cav here and can see both sides.

But the thing I always liked about Cav was that he shoots from the hip with his comments - I don't like it when he delivers one of those canned responses you get from the rest of the peloton. He will also trash himself when he messes up - don't hear a lot of riders doing that.

I liked him best when he was that brassy young "boy racer" who gave no quarter during interviews - that was fun! He has mellowed somewhat, but sometimes still mouths off - I hope he let's loose some more. Let the old ladies in the audience be appalled!


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## dcorn (Sep 1, 2011)

55x11 said:


> Sometimes we forget that yellow jersey is not a gift - you must work for it. It was much more fitting in the end to see Martin get it the way he did, by a courageous break, rather than having a teammate Cavendish sprinting for 3rd just so he could hand it to him.


True story. Tony earned the hell out of the yellow on that break. After about he pulled a good 100m on the field in 10 seconds, it was clear he wasn't letting anyone catch him. (Didn't he do the same thing last year on one stage?) Sucks to see him go out with an injury.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

LostViking said:


> I've read the mixed reviews for Cav here and can see both sides.
> 
> But the thing I always liked about Cav was that he shoots from the hip with his comments - I don't like it when he delivers one of those canned responses you get from the rest of the peloton. He will also trash himself when he messes up - don't hear a lot of riders doing that.
> 
> I liked him best when he was that brassy young "boy racer" who gave no quarter during interviews - that was fun! He has mellowed somewhat, but sometimes still mouths off - I hope he let's loose some more. Let the old ladies in the audience be appalled!


agreed. I would rather hear athletes be honest in interviews than give us the same all drivel "thanks to the team, to God, to country etc.".

Besides, let's be honest, Cav's leadout was quite screwed up - he was forced to lead out way way too early - and lost too stages due to bad placing. I can say it. You can say it. Bobbke and VdV DID say it. Over and over.

But Cav cannot say it?!

this is terrible PC police - unless Cav thanks his team, he cannot say anything else.
Well, I want to know what he REALLY thinks!


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## Monk (Jan 28, 2012)

Baby got his candy, waaaaahhh...


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## dcorn (Sep 1, 2011)

55x11 said:


> agreed. I would rather hear athletes be honest in interviews than give us the same all drivel "thanks to the team, to God, to country etc.".
> 
> Besides, let's be honest, Cav's leadout was quite screwed up - he was forced to lead out way way too early - and lost too stages due to bad placing. I can say it. You can say it. Bobbke and VdV DID say it. Over and over.
> 
> ...


Yup, lots of whiners here that don't like a cocky sprinter. It's not like he doesn't have a right to be cocky, the dude is good. Amazing with a good team helping him out. Still good when the team doesn't give a damn about him (Sky). 



Monk said:


> Baby got his candy, waaaaahhh...


Nice trolling bro. I guess Cav decided winning tour stages was more important than crying in his pillow about comments you guys make on the internet. 


Oh, and if you read his books, Cav is fully aware of his online haters. I think it's funny that most elite athletes are oblivious and think they are untouchable, but Cav logs onto forums to see the crap people write about him.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

dcorn said:


> Cav logs onto forums to see the crap people write about him.


Really!!!!

Cav - your my fav rider of all time!!!! Can I have a signed jersey? Please, please, please!!!!


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

I called him a wanker with a napoleon complex on his own FB page. I hope he poked around there and read that bit of info.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

9W9W said:


> I called him a wanker with a napoleon complex on his own FB page. I hope he poked around there and read that bit of info.


Napoleon was actually above average height for his day.


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