# Bruyneel & Astana?



## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

from cyclingnews this morning...
"There are some news agencies speculating that Johan Bruyneel could lead Team Astana for 2008 and beyond. The Belgian will end his duties at the end the year when Discovery Channel ceases as a team, while at Astana there have been rumours of Team Manager Marc Biver leaving. A communication regarding the Swiss is expected September 5."

he'll fit right in!


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

blackhat said:


> from cyclingnews this morning...
> "There are some news agencies speculating that Johan Bruyneel could lead Team Astana for 2008 and beyond. The Belgian will end his duties at the end the year when Discovery Channel ceases as a team, while at Astana there have been rumours of Team Manager Marc Biver leaving. A communication regarding the Swiss is expected September 5."
> 
> he'll fit right in!


Is today April 1? I had to double check the article to make sure that this was not an April Fool's joke.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Bruyneel "First things first. I'll need the riders to move to Gerona, I have someone in Valencia that I need to introduce. No more problems."


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

blackhat said:


> from cyclingnews this morning...
> "There are some news agencies speculating that Johan Bruyneel could lead Team Astana for 2008 and beyond. The Belgian will end his duties at the end the year when Discovery Channel ceases as a team, while at Astana there have been rumours of Team Manager Marc Biver leaving. A communication regarding the Swiss is expected September 5."
> 
> he'll fit right in!


lance's old bodyguard is there...time to get back together.


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

*confirmed!*

from VN's vuelta coverage:

<b>4:41 PM Bruyneel
It looks like Johan Bruyneel’s planned retirement could be a short one.

The Belgian sport director of Discovery Channel is in talks with the troubled Astana team to take over as general manager just weeks after announcing he would retire from cycling at the end of the 2007 season.

Bruyneel confirmed he’s been contacted by officials from the Astana team to join the Kazakhstan-sponsored squad for the 2008 season and beyond.

“It’s true I’ve had conversations with them but I’ve just returned from vacations and I haven’t had a chance to fully consider it,” Bruyneel told journalists ahead of Saturday’s start of the Vuelta.


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## Lumbergh (Aug 19, 2005)

now perhaps Astana's riders can dope without getting caught - the Jedi Master will learn them well...


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Whatever. He's a colorful character, great strategist, and I'd like to see him stay in the game. Whether or not he's "actively involved" in riders' doping careers, or just "winks and looks the other way" or neither, is speculation. 

He's too darned young to retire anyway.


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## Lumbergh (Aug 19, 2005)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Whatever. He's a colorful character, great strategist, and I'd like to see him stay in the game. Whether or not he's "actively involved" in riders' doping careers, or just "winks and looks the other way" or neither, is speculation.
> 
> He's too darned young to retire anyway.


That's true though his associations with Saiz at Once, Dr Ferrari, and lots of his ex-riders caught doping is too much to overlook IMHO.

Whatever - like a cucaracha, Bruneel will live to fight another day. Let's see if he can win clean


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Lumbergh said:


> That's true though his associations with Saiz at Once, Dr Ferrari, and lots of his ex-riders caught doping is too much to overlook IMHO.


Lots of ex-riders caught? I can only think of three.


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## Lumbergh (Aug 19, 2005)

So if three is not a lot, what counts as a lot of riders getting busted? Seems like it only took 1 rider to get Cofidis tossed out of Le Tour, as well as Astana. For those teams, sounds like ONE rider was a lot...

Point is, unless the Team managers are forced to suffer for doping, it won't end. Period.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Lumbergh said:


> So if three is not a lot, what counts as a lot of riders getting busted? Seems like it only took 1 rider to get Cofidis tossed out of Le Tour, as well as Astana. For those teams, sounds like ONE rider was a lot...
> 
> Point is, unless the Team managers are forced to suffer for doping, it won't end. Period.


First of all, we're talking about EX-riders getting busted over the length of Bruyneel's career as a DS. There have been a lot of ex-riders since he started in 1998, and only three have been busted. One ex-rider was busted while subsequently riding for Saiz, which seems silly to pin on Bruyneel. Two or three, it's a very small percentage, and hardly indicative of a pattern. 

Because we're talking about EX-riders, your post makes no sense in context. Moreni's positive got his current team Cofidis tossed from the Tour, but his previous team, Quickstep, wasn't affected. Astana was kicked out because their active rider was busted. No one considered kicking out T-Mobile because Vino used to ride for them.


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## Lumbergh (Aug 19, 2005)

Because we're talking about the definition of A LOT, my post made perfect sense. (Let's not forget the two ex riders who admitted to doping (three if you count Lance's 96 alleged confession). To say that they only started doping AFTER leaving one of his teams seems a little naive to me.)

But I digress.

Compared to what? What about DS's who never had a rider busted for doping (ex or otherwise). Compared to that, 3-5 sounds like a lot to me.

Ask Cofidis how much A LOT of busted riders is. Like I said, it only took one to end their tour.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Lumbergh said:


> What about DS's who never had a rider busted for doping (ex or otherwise). Compared to that, 3-5 sounds like a lot to me.


Can you name a top-level DS in the same era as Bruyneel who has never had a rider or ex-rider busted (or confessed) for doping? I can't. And that's my point. It's a useless statistic that gets far too much credit.


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## harlond (May 30, 2005)

mohair_chair said:


> It's a useless statistic that gets far too much credit.


+1, although the use of an association that has ENDED as evidence of guilt is an excellent use of guilt by association, if you like that sort of thing.

And if you do, hard to see how T-Mobile's Bob Stapleton isn't attracting all sorts of criticism.


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

these guys need an image consultant. its now apparently all but <a href="http://velonews.com/race/int/articles/13449.0.html">certain</a> that Bruyneel is "un-retiring" and bringing with him levi, contador and apparently most everything else that once called itself Discovery.
from velonews:<i>
The Spanish daily MARCA reported Wednesday that Contador will sign a two-year contract worth 1.5 million euros per season and bring Benjamín Noval and Sergio Paulinho with him. Other riders linked to Bruyneel's move to Astana include Janez Brajkovic, Levi Leipheimer and Tomas Vaitkus.


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## optimieron (May 27, 2007)

I am happy to see them back in the game again personally. Hopefully Bruyneel will be better in marketing Astana via good results without caught dopers than his predecessors. True, it doesn't clean up the sport by re-creating a new Discovery but I don't think that the sport will be ever be totally clean at the top level. It will be an interesting show/sport to say the least. Wonder what Klodi will think with a new boss and new teammates??


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

blackhat said:


> these guys need an image consultant.


True that. Bruynel and Disco never even seemed to try to give voice service to being clean. As for image, maybe he can clean up thos ugly jerseys and bikes.


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## optimieron (May 27, 2007)

*Doping and Team Jersey Colours*

I liked the Astana jerseys because you could spot them easily. Yes, the didn't go with much but hey they did stand out. Maybe there is a correlation between the colour of a team's jersey and the amount of doping they do or the amount of offences for doping that they receive? I think that Astana would have a high correlation for their colour (don't know how to exactly describe it) and doping. Or maybe it should be a correlation of how "loud" a jersey is and number of offences? Phonak was loud and had a high amount of caught dopers. Maybe it attracts the wrong kind of attention? Just going on a tangent here ...

Michael


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

optimieron said:


> I liked the Astana jerseys because you could spot them easily. Yes, the didn't go with much but hey they did stand out. Maybe there is a correlation between the colour of a team's jersey and the amount of doping they do or the amount of offences for doping that they receive? I think that Astana would have a high correlation for their colour (don't know how to exactly describe it) and doping. Or maybe it should be a correlation of how "loud" a jersey is and number of offences? Phonak was loud and had a high amount of caught dopers. Maybe it attracts the wrong kind of attention? Just going on a tangent here ...
> 
> Michael


Not to pop your theory, but Euskatel's doping should be off the charts and Mayo wasn't caught until he left.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

with BMC having dropped out as sponsor, what's the over/under on Bruyneel signing up Trek to keep them in the pro peloton?


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Pablo said:


> Not to pop your theory, but Euskatel's doping should be off the charts and Mayo wasn't caught until he left.


I'm pretty sure Euskatel fired their doctors a couple of years ago after they had an EPO positive. This was around the same time that riders like Zubeldia and Mayo (D. Extebarria too I believe) suddenly couldn't find form anymore. Now I think it would be pretty naive to think a Spanish team was playing on the up and up, but it seems to have taken years for Euskatel to come back to the front with riders like Sanchez.


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

stevesbike said:


> with BMC having dropped out as sponsor, what's the over/under on Bruyneel signing up Trek to keep them in the pro peloton?


Ill take the under. this was a <a href="http://trekroad.typepad.com/trekroad/2007/08/dissolved-team.html#comment-79277062">reply </a>to a comment on trek's blog after the announcement that disco was disbanding:
<b>
Scott Daubert - Trek Road Bike Brand Manager</b>

I should have been more clear in my post when I mentioned the meetings here at Trek. There will be no continuation of the Discovery/USPS program as we know it. The structure that ran that team no longer exists. As for sponsoring other programs, <b>Trek's options are many but continuing on as the sponsor of Johan's program is not one of them.</b>

August 12, 2007 at 08:38 PM


that can be read in more than one way, I guess, but I think the relationship is ovah!


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

It's always interesting when a PR type speaks in anything other than generic, vague terms...


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

blackhat said:


> Ill take the under. this was a <a href="http://trekroad.typepad.com/trekroad/2007/08/dissolved-team.html#comment-79277062">reply </a>to a comment on trek's blog after the announcement that disco was disbanding:
> <b>
> Scott Daubert - Trek Road Bike Brand Manager</b>
> 
> ...


Does anyone want to be associated with the most caught doping team in the peleton? It's not about IF they dope, it's about if they doped and got caught.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

blackhat said:


> Ill take the under. this was a <a href="http://trekroad.typepad.com/trekroad/2007/08/dissolved-team.html#comment-79277062">reply </a>to a comment on trek's blog after the announcement that disco was disbanding:
> <b>
> Scott Daubert - Trek Road Bike Brand Manager</b>
> 
> ...


Scott is a really cool guy. It has never been a secret that he and the Belgium mafia did not mesh well together. Even though he escaped his position a while back I bet he is relieved he does not have to try to figure out where Julian is hiding all the inventory anymore.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Dwayne Barry said:


> I'm pretty sure Euskatel fired their doctors a couple of years ago after they had an EPO positive. This was around the same time that riders like Zubeldia and Mayo (D. Extebarria too I believe) suddenly couldn't find form anymore. Now I think it would be pretty naive to think a Spanish team was playing on the up and up, but it seems to have taken years for Euskatel to come back to the front with riders like Sanchez.


Yeah, good analysis and Spanish cycling is pretty tainted all around. I was just noting that Euskatel is not known as one of the big doping teams--regardless of whether they should be.


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