# AToC



## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

So after Monday's Stage 2 Time Trial, this thing kind of seems all wrapped up. Wigan pretty much crushed everyone's hopes. There are some climbs left, but even if someone drops Wigan, I doubt that he or they will be able to put enough time in him to overcome this deficit.

If there is any ***** in Sky's armor, then it's the youngish team surrounding Sir Bradley, with the exception of Danny Pate. But really, I can't see them messing this one up. This was one of Wigan's big goals for the year and he is prepared.

BMC easily had the worst day. Phinney couldn't even get second place. Their "GC Contender" Stetina was really more of a pretender. He's now placed 42nd, and the third highest placed ride on his own team.

Maybe someone like Garmin will send a couple guys on a long range break like they have done in the past, but if there is any racing for GC left, then the rest of the field needs to get creative and aggressive.

I will say this, while I am certain nobody expected the winner of Stage 2 to win by 44s and basically put a minute plus into the next realistic GC guys, but given that the time gaps on the mountain stages in this race never seem to be all that great, is it reasonable to question the judgement of placing the TT on Stage 2?


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## Rokh On (Oct 30, 2011)

Phinney missed 2nd by what? .08? Is it that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things? 

I do agree, advantage Wiggins. Sky was smart. They've been there training for a couple of weeks.

As far as Stentina goes, it was documented by local media he was worried about being 2 minutes back after stage 2.


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

Wow. I stand somewhat corrected. That's a pleasantly surprising ride by the winner today.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

yup, after today's stage, dennis still has a chance of taking the overall. garmin now have to share the work however, which should present a better opportunity for the supporting cast to protect wiggo. it's time for the SKY young'ins to step up.


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## Rokh On (Oct 30, 2011)

dnice said:


> it's time for the SKY young'ins to step up.


??? I thought they did a good job yesterday.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

Rokh On said:


> ??? I thought they did a good job yesterday.


None of them could stay with Wiggo on the climb.
It was a great race though, the climb up Mt. Diablo was fantastic!


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Wiggo was doing for all the other contenders what another SKY rider should have been doing for him.


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## Rokh On (Oct 30, 2011)

I thought maybe Edmondson or Earle may have led him out a bit longer on the climb but I certainly didn't expect them to be there long. Not at the pace they were going.


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## SlowJoeCrow (Sep 3, 2009)

Stage 3's finish seemed to show Wiggins' limits and Garmin's successful tactics. I think Froome might have survived Acevedo's attack, where Wiggins faded leaving a clear run for Dennis to take 20 seconds.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

looigi said:


> Wiggo was doing for all the other contenders what another SKY rider should have been doing for him.


Too bad by then the rest of Sky had already **** the bed and dropped off. I guess Wiggo doesn't have any support when things get steep.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

looigi said:


> Wiggo was doing for all the other contenders what another SKY rider should have been doing for him.


that's how i saw it as well.


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## 4Crawler (Jul 13, 2011)

I guess Giant-Shimano has some on-bike cameras at the race, one was on Degenkolb's bike on stage 1:


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

very impressive victory today by phinney. massive, massive effort justly rewarded.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Damn that was a great stage finish


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Im gonna have to eat my words about ToC - Between the breakaway sticking yesterday and Phinney's massive ride today its has been quite and exciting race. Add to that the GC battle is looking good.


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## Redley78 (Dec 4, 2013)

I am a little late to this thread, but i am surprised Wiggins led the group up Mt Diablo.
Why would he do such a thing? He could sit 1 or 2 wheels back and just wait for attacks. In the end, he suffered from his own pride by leading the group til the end, then when there was an attack, he could do nothing about it cuz he was already gassed from pulling everyone up the hill. 
Very stupid IMO of sky or Wiggins...whoever made that decision. 
However, this decision will make todays (stage 6) a very good one. 
I suspect he will not make the same mistake and never take the lead (do the work).


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

It's kinda damned if you do and damned if you don't. There was only one or two halfhearted attacks he had to chase because he set such a blistering pace. Had he gone slower, he'd likely would have had to chase down a bunch of attacks from different riders wearing himself out doing that. It's tough to know which would have worked out better in the end.

I'm really looking forward to seeing how things play out today.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

Great race this year, surprise break away win, freaking amazing solo win by Phinney (what a motor on that kid!). Really looking forward to today's climb of Mountain High :thumbsup:


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## bayAreaDude (Apr 13, 2012)

I'm also really liking Van De Velde's comments, for the most part. He shares current details and I enjoy his perspective being so fresh out of the peloton.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

I've only just gotten interested in the sport and this has been my first real taste of a stage race... I'm hoping this doesn't spoil me because each day has been pretty exciting, except for the TT.

Totally impressed with Phinney's ride yesterday the definition of the Never Give Up attitude... he just kept driving.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Redley78 said:


> I am a little late to this thread, but i am surprised Wiggins led the group up Mt Diablo.
> Why would he do such a thing? He could sit 1 or 2 wheels back and just wait for attacks. In the end, he suffered from his own pride by leading the group til the end, then when there was an attack, he could do nothing about it cuz he was already gassed from pulling everyone up the hill.
> Very stupid IMO of sky or Wiggins...whoever made that decision.
> However, this decision will make todays (stage 6) a very good one.
> I suspect he will not make the same mistake and never take the lead (do the work).



Wiggo is best when he can ride a steady hard tempo, in the case of Diablo he was hoping the tempo he could ride would be hard enough that no one would be able to jump away. If he sat back behind the guys that climb better (more explosive climbers) he would have to respond to attack after attack which he can't do and once they figure out its hard for you that exactly what they do - attack make you chase ease up, attack again repeat til the tempo rider blows. 

If you go back and watch him in the tour he won that is exactly what he did - had Froome and his team set the exact tempo that he wanted so that he only had to respond to one or two surges.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

32and3cross said:


> Wiggo is best when he can ride a steady hard tempo, in the case of Diablo he was hoping the tempo he could ride would be hard enough that no one would be able to jump away. If he sat back behind the guys that climb better (more explosive climbers) he would have to respond to attack after attack which he can't do and once they figure out its hard for you that exactly what they do - attack make you chase ease up, attack again repeat til the tempo rider blows.
> 
> If you go back and watch him in the tour he won that is exactly what he did - had Froome and his team set the exact tempo that he wanted so that he only had to respond to one or two surges.


Exactly. Diablo at the end ramps up and helps these more explosive climbers on the steeper grades where Wiggins isn't great. When he's climbing he's basically time trialing.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

One interesting thing about the race so far for me is that breakaways keep making it to the finish (something you don't see very often). I am trying to figure out whether it's because you have so many younger, less experienced rides doing major work on the front of the peloton or because Sky doesn't have it's strongest team there or that the breakaways are just that good.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

Rashadabd said:


> One interesting thing about the race so far for me is that breakaways keep making it to the finish (something you don't see very often). I am trying to figure out whether it's because you have so many younger, less experienced rides doing major work on the front of the peloton or because Sky doesn't have it's strongest team there or that the breakaways are just that good.


Agreed... I think the teams at TOC aren't quite as experienced or deep, as a whole... so the breaks are having more success than they typically do at some of the other big races.. whatever the reason, it is making for some exciting races. I was really hoping that Dennis would make a move that would stick on Wiggo, but oh well.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Rashadabd said:


> One interesting thing about the race so far for me is that breakaways keep making it to the finish (something you don't see very often). I am trying to figure out whether it's because you have so many younger, less experienced rides doing major work on the front of the peloton or because Sky doesn't have it's strongest team there or that the breakaways are just that good.


For Stage 4 Sky didn't really care about the chase because those guys aren't GC threats. It was a sprinters stage and Giant-Shimano, OPQS, and Cannondale royally screwed that one up. It has been unusually windy up here in NorCal this year and they underestimated what the tail wind would be.


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

bayAreaDude said:


> I'm also really liking Van De Velde's comments, for the most part. He shares current details and I enjoy his perspective being so fresh out of the peloton.


Ditto. He's not as smooth as Daniel Lloyd but he will get there.


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

Sky got a lift today from some help from Giant Shimano and later BMC. 

Garmin's tactics were predictable. Was not surprised to see Tommy D in the break, and then Acevado making a run, Ben King might have been a surprise but he didn't do much for them. Dennis flat out didn't have enough to make a move at the end of the day.

Dombrowksi had a good ride I thought.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

looigi said:


> It's kinda damned if you do and damned if you don't. There was only one or two halfhearted attacks he had to chase because he set such a blistering pace. Had he gone slower, he'd likely would have had to chase down a bunch of attacks from different riders wearing himself out doing that. It's tough to know which would have worked out better in the end.
> 
> I'm really looking forward to seeing how things play out today.


Wiggo rode smart. Rode his tempo and controlled any breaks until what, the final 500 meters? He lost 4 second son GC and got 1-2 back the following day


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

very happy for today's results, in particular because young Sky did the business. chapeau to them, and what's left to say about team orica green edge right now? they are on fire!


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## TehYoyo (Sep 16, 2012)

DZfan14 said:


> Sky got a lift today from some help from Giant Shimano and later BMC.
> 
> Garmin's tactics were predictable. Was not surprised to see Tommy D in the break, and then Acevado making a run, Ben King might have been a surprise but he didn't do much for them. Dennis flat out didn't have enough to make a move at the end of the day.
> 
> Dombrowksi had a good ride I thought.


I was impressed by Joe and Adam Yates. That guy had a great win in Romandie (? or was that Turkey?) and is doing really well in ToC as well.

Not as impressed by the "GC Battle," which was essentially a time trial. Sure, Wiggo lost 20 seconds on Diablo, but c'mon. I think the race organizers could have been just a tad more creative w/ the route - the stages aren't that long and only feature 1 climb, max. Today's stage could have gone Mountain High down the back of MH and then up Mt. Baldy to the Ski Lifts. That would have busted some legs, I imagine.


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## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

Rashadabd said:


> One interesting thing about the race so far for me is that breakaways keep making it to the finish (something you don't see very often). I am trying to figure out whether it's because you have so many younger, less experienced rides doing major work on the front of the peloton or because Sky doesn't have it's strongest team there or that the breakaways are just that good.



The main reason would be no race radios. Riders have to actually think for themselves and they don't get constant updates from the manager.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

it was strange since we don't see many favorites doing it, but it made perfect sense. Wiggo does not have acceleration, but he has diesel engine. By setting a very high steady pace he discouraged any attacks. If the pace slowed down, other would jump away, and Wiggo would have to chase, and that's not something he is good at, potentially exhausting himself and losing minutes. Ideally you want your teammates to set the tempo, not do it yourself, but when you are out of teammates, you have to do the job yourself.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

My audio keeps studdering when the 3rd guy is talking... it's not phil or paul. What's going on?!


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

And here we see why Wiggo gets the big bucks. Garmin's tactics weren't surprising - they've played those cards before - but those tactics weren't going to work against Wiggans.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

TehYoyo said:


> Not as impressed by the "GC Battle," which was essentially a time trial. Sure, Wiggo lost 20 seconds on Diablo, but c'mon. I think the race organizers could have been just a tad more creative w/ the route - the stages aren't that long and only feature 1 climb, max. Today's stage could have gone Mountain High down the back of MH and then up Mt. Baldy to the Ski Lifts. That would have busted some legs, I imagine.


I don't know if ATOC is restricted by its UCI classification. Whatever the case, at 100F, the add on you suggested would have done more than busted a few legs, IMHO.


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## igotyofire (Nov 27, 2011)

Just got home from the race(stage 7), Here are some of my best photos, Caught a couple of the big names, No spoilers


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## iclypso (Jul 6, 2011)

bas said:


> My audio keeps studdering when the 3rd guy is talking... it's not phil or paul. What's going on?!


Cue rimshot. I think he'll get better. He has great insight and you and I would probably do the same faced with the knowledge that thousands of people are listening to our every word. He seems to get ahead of himself and the metaphors meld in his mouth (not in his hand?).


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