# USADA shows up at a Florida CX race



## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Strange.

Florida Cyclocross » USADA Police Report At Florida MTB Race


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## mariomal99 (Mar 4, 2012)

They looking for Lance lol


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## vagabondcyclist (Apr 2, 2011)

What's strange is a race promoter who when approached by a recognized governing body gives those folks static. I don't know the race promoter, but he's never heard of USADA? His first response is to call the police (who sound out of their league)? 

You race, you race promote, you follow the rules. Period. Does the same race promoter demand to take a picture of a unknown USACycling official and then call the police?

Again, what's strange is a race promoter doubting someone with ID from USADA. If I were with USADA and a race promoter, coach, racer, etc. starts giving me static, tries to delay me, etc. I'm getting suspicious. Requiring or expecting USADA to announce its intention to be at an event is a bit like calling the crooks to let them know that the police will be serving a search warrant in a week's time. 

Sure it's a state event, but if that event leads to series points that could be applied to a state championship then those champions end up at national championship events, by which time doping controls start to be a bit moot.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

vagabondcyclist said:


> What's strange is a race promoter who when approached by a recognized governing body gives those folks static. I don't know the race promoter, but he's never heard of USADA? His first response is to call the police (who sound out of their league)?
> 
> You race, you race promote, you follow the rules. Period. Does the same race promoter demand to take a picture of a unknown USACycling official and then call the police?
> 
> ...



From reading the report (what I could at least) the race promoter has valid points.

1. They didn't notify him they were coming before hand, so technically they could have been anybody with a badge made on a printer...not very hard to do.

2. I wouldn't allow blood to be drawn without a trained/licensed phlebotomist...way too much liability involved there for him. Not only that, they would need a sanitary place to conduct the blood draws if they were doing it...which didn't appear to be the case.

From the sound of it...the promoter did the correct thing by calling the police…again CYA! Maybe in the future the USADA will actually follow some sort of procedure. Just showing up at a race for the fun of it to test some cyclists isn't really the way to conduct business.

Had it been me, I don’t think I would have allowed any racer to be tested, voluntarily or not. Again, the liability aspect is way to big. If it turned out they were people posing as USADA officials and I allowed it to happen, it would be my butt on the line as well as my families and future races.

There is a reason you plan these things out…so everybody is on the same page. The racers don’t need to know about it before hand, but the promoters do.

Nothing like putting fuel to the fire toward the fact the USADA is run in a haphazard manner :idea:


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

if it's a USAC sanctioned race... the promoter get a metric crap-ton of paperwork from USAC prior to the race... why isn't / wasn't there a simple notice "hey, USADA might show up, here's the procedure"?


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

There is a lot missing from this 

No, they do not have to notify the promoter before hand. If you signed for a USAC license they can show up any time and test you

They were not blood testing, they were testing Urine. They were clear on this, besides it is almost unheard of for there to be blood testing AFTER a race. It is almost always done in the morning. Why did the promoter start ranting about blood when there were no blood testing requested?

The promoter got on a megaphone and during the race told rider to ignore the testers. 

The testers were there to test one guy. It was a target test. Nice of the promoter to obstruct the testing. Classy


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Wookiebiker said:


> From reading the report (what I could at least) the race promoter has valid points.
> 
> 1. They didn't notify him they were coming before hand, so technically they could have been anybody with a badge made on a printer...not very hard to do.
> 
> ...


There was no blood test requested. 

There is zero liability to the promoter, all the athletes had consented in writing to USADA testing. They have to in order to get a license

there is zero evidence of USADA behaving haphazardly......but it does appear that someone was trying to interfere with target testing


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## vagabondcyclist (Apr 2, 2011)

Ummm...you really expect the anti-doping agency to let promoters, racers, teams, etc. know that anti-doping inspectors might show up? For doping controls to work they have to "just show up" sometimes. It's kind of like a snap inspection. 

Just listen to what you are saying. Really listen to yourselves. 

You take the word of the officials that they are who they say they are without trying to intimidate them by asking to take pictures of their ID or calling the police on them. What the promoter did was tantamount to obstruction.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

Creakyknees said:


> why isn't / wasn't there a simple notice "hey, USADA might show up, here's the procedure"?


Without knowing much about the relationship of USADA to promoters, but knowing something about USADA and athletes, I don't see what authority the promoter had to insert himself in the process between USADA and the license holders. As explained, every USAC license has a statement that the athlete has consented to testing by USADA. The relationship is between those two; the promoter has no standing to interfere.


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## mmoose (Apr 2, 2004)

A guess, promoter of any sanctioned event must agree to usada showing up and doing their job. 

Promoter does have a point about "how can I make sure that these are legit guys". There should be some protocol either ahead of time or day of for a promoter to verify. But USADA should be able to show up without advertising ahead of time...even to the promoter.

Blood draw...from the way I read the report, the USADA guys told the LEO that they were there only for urine, not blood draw. Blood would required a licensed phlebotomist, which they did not have with them. 

So my takeaway...usada might need a better way to confirm agents to promoters for surprise visits. But the promoter comes off as an a$$hat to me.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Creakyknees said:


> Strange.
> 
> Florida Cyclocross » USADA Police Report At Florida MTB Race


nOOB question:

Did they call local LE because the racing officials were treating it as a general disturbance?


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> There was no blood test requested.
> 
> There is zero liability to the promoter, all the athletes had consented in writing to USADA testing. They have to in order to get a license
> 
> there is zero evidence of USADA behaving haphazardly......but it does appear that someone was trying to interfere with target testing


There is a "Ton" of liability to the promoter.

The simple fact is anybody could print off a USADA badge, put their picture and try and pass it off as a USADA official. There are crazy people out there doing strange/crazy/dangerous things and in this day in age...I follow the deadfast rule of "Trust Nobody".

The badge could say "Secret Service", "FBI", "CIA" and I'm still calling the police to let them verify the badges.

If they turned out to be some idiots with printed off badges...it's the promoters responsiblity for not stoping them from testing. Without pictures, how would you identify them? 

Quite simply the way they went about it is a law suit waiting to happen...if this is the way the USADA operates, I can see law suits down the line as they have no real official legal jurisdiction other than being part of a racing organization.

Racing in Oregon, I don't ever deal with the USADA since we have our own racing organization here...so I don't see how they operate on a regular basis. 

However, if this is how they do it, they need to re-think their process. The race promoter should always be notified that they are coming, who is coming and when they will be there, etc. If the promoter wants to be able to promote USADA sanctioned races then it's their responsiblity not to tell others that the USADA will be there for testing...thus tipping off racers to be tested.

Again...I have problems with the process of which they go about their testing, not the testing it's self. The USADA appears to have problems with "Process" and that's what is getting them in trouble these days...not the testing it's self.

I'm all for drug testing, but it has to be done in a professional manner...this doesn't sound the case and I'm all for the promoter covering his ***!


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

Wookiebiker said:


> If they turned out to be some idiots with printed off badges...it's the promoters responsiblity for not stoping them from testing.


Again, why? The relationship is between USADA and the license holder. Where does the promoter enter into the equation?

Once again the mis-information, spin machine cranks itself up.


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## vagabondcyclist (Apr 2, 2011)

Wookiebiker said:


> There is a "Ton" of liability to the promoter.
> 
> The simple fact is anybody could print off a USADA badge, put their picture and try and pass it off as a USADA official. There are crazy people out there doing strange/crazy/dangerous things and in this day in age...I follow the deadfast rule of "Trust Nobody".
> 
> !


If Dave Berger is as a professional race promoter he should know what a USADA ID looks like. Any race promoter should. 

Maybe USADA needs to provide a procedure for IDing testers--some kind of outreach to make sure promoters know that USADA may show up, what kind of ID the testers will carry, maybe provide a hotline to verify testers ID's etc, but right now, someone one shows up with USADA ID the promoter shouldn't obstruct the tester. 

And Wookie, if you race, the USACycling officials and race promoter take your word for it that you are who your license says you are, no?


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Lets hope this jacktard gets his race canceled.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Wookiebiker said:


> There is a "Ton" of liability to the promoter.
> 
> The simple fact is anybody could print off a USADA badge, put their picture and try and pass it off as a USADA official. There are crazy people out there doing strange/crazy/dangerous things and in this day in age...I follow the deadfast rule of "Trust Nobody".
> 
> ...


Really?

How did they know the policeman was real? He could have been a space alien with a fake badge....could have been, you never know :idea:


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

vagabondcyclist said:


> If Dave Berger is as a professional race promoter he should know what a USADA ID looks like. Any race promoter should.


Only unless the USADA has shown them badges...and again, anybody could have one or make one on a computer and do so pretty easliy. With no notification that they were coming...they could literally be "Anybody".



> Maybe USADA needs to provide a procedure for IDing testers--some kind of outreach to make sure promoters know that USADA may show up, what kind of ID the testers will carry, maybe provide a hotline to verify testers ID's etc, but right now, someone one shows up with USADA ID the promoter shouldn't obstruct the tester.


This I do agree with and is my only real problem with this situation...There should be a proceedure in place to let the race promoter know they will be testing and who will be there. Is that so freaking hard to figure out? Really?

The promotor has to pay for the liability insurance for the race, if something happens during the race...it's the promoters responsibility, if the crap hits the fan...it's on the promoter. Not the USADA.

People seem to want the USADA to be able to function with no rules, no regulations, no proceedures...just "ANYTHING TO CATCH DOPERS....FORGET THE RIGHTS OF OTHERS". It's this mentality that destroys everything.



> And Wookie, if you race, the USACycling officials and race promoter take your word for it that you are who your license says you are, no?


I don't race under USAC rules...Again, I race in Oregon where we have our own racing organization OBRA. They used to work in conjunction with one another but USAC walked away from the table...and the word I get is they were quite arrogant about it in the process. The USAC follows their own rules, standards and ignores those of others because in their mind...they don't matter.

They need process and proceedure to go along with their rules/regulations and they need to be called out and held accountable when they don't follow them instead of be given a pass because they are trying to catch dopers.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Really?
> 
> How did they know the policeman was real? He could have been a space alien with a fake badge....could have been, you never know :idea:


The way I would know is because I would have called them and expected them to show up in official PD vehicles.

How many times a year do you hear about some guy pulling people over on the interstate and presenting himself as a police office. The individual usually has lights in an unmarked vehicle and the only way they get caught is by people calling the real police on them...or by shear luck that an actual police officer happens to be passing by at the time.

People pull fake badges all the time...it's the world we live in now. Heck, people can print off perfect replicas of money these days and the only way to tell the difference is the paper material and the security procedures in the real money.

As I said...I follow the CYA principal and trust nobody. I'll double/triple check everything and if somebody shows up unannounced, I'll check their credibility before I let them proceed with their business. Call is obstruction, call it whatever you want...but I wouldn't be the one getting sued for not pursuing their due diligence in checking who people are.

A big part of this come from my brother being an officer and telling me numerous stories of people trying to pull this type of crap off on a regular basis.


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## vagabondcyclist (Apr 2, 2011)

Wookiebiker said:


> Only unless the USADA has shown them badges...and again, anybody could have one or make one on a computer and do so pretty easliy. With no notification that they were coming...they could literally be "Anybody".
> .


If you read the police report, it is clear that the USADA officials showed the race promoter ID from USADA. At some point, all ID requires a bit of trust--the officials trust that you are who your license says you are, etc. 

Again, there is a good chance that a race promoter might be in on doping, etc--I am NOT saying that this is the case here, but it could happen and requiring USADA to let the promoter know that testing will happen is a bit like letting the criminal know in advance that the police are showing up to execute a search warrant.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

vagabondcyclist said:


> If you read the police report, it is clear that the USADA officials showed the race promoter ID from USADA. At some point, all ID requires a bit of trust--the officials trust that you are who your license says you are, etc.
> 
> Again, there is a good chance that a race promoter might be in on doping, etc--I am NOT saying that this is the case here, but it could happen and requiring USADA to let the promoter know that testing will happen is a bit like letting the criminal know in advance that the police are showing up to execute a search warrant.


I understand all of this...however, if the USADA/USAC want to have an organization, they have to trust the promoters as well. It's a two way street.

This is the reason for proceedures on when/where officials show up. Sure the promoter could be a PED supplier...Walter White has expanded his business again :thumbsup: ... but there has to be trust by the USADA that the promoter isn't going to notify racers they will be there.

This proceedure alone would have solved the problem to begin with.

Some races actually state there will be drug testing at the event (go figure :idea...I've seen it in race flyers...so this isn't exactly rocket science or state protected secrets. A little communication and notification goes a long way toward maintaining relationships. Thinking you are bigger/better than everybody else leads to a quick termination of relationships and hatred toward your organization.


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## ronderman (May 17, 2010)

I kinda-sorta call bull **** on this one. Not sure this REALLY happened - look at the source, some Flirida web site with scanned docs?!?!

Even with that said, USADA has a right to show up and test - that's the RULES folks (not the law, for any idiot still going down that path). 

Look people, they showed up to a gran fondo and popped 3 people - we have serious, serious issues in our sport. I would think we all want it cleaned up.


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## bballr4567 (Jul 17, 2012)

Wow, really going after the badges? 

Sorry, the promoter is way in the wrong here. USADA doesnt have to notify you they are coming. If they did, its like telling someone they are about to be on baitcar before they steal the car. 


Another issue I have is that the cop wont believe the people with three badges saying USADA and verifying them with the DLs but will believe some random rider about how USADA does testing? 



Very weird situation all around. USADA needs to come up with a good way to conduct testing at events and promoters need to let these guys do their job. There is nothing bad about peeing in a cup.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

ronderman said:


> I kinda-sorta call bull **** on this one. Not sure this REALLY happened - look at the source, some Flirida web site with scanned docs?!?!
> 
> Even with that said, USADA has a right to show up and test - that's the RULES folks (not the law, for any idiot still going down that path).
> 
> Look people, they showed up to a gran fondo and popped 3 people - we have serious, serious issues in our sport. I would think we all want it cleaned up.


It really did happen. I have talked to people who were there

They came to target test 2 guys and the promoter made a scene.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Wookiebiker said:


> I understand all of this...however, if the USADA/USAC want to have an organization, they have to trust the promoters as well. It's a two way street.


Trust the promoter? You mean like the guy in the report who obstructed them so they could not target test? 

The fact is if you have signed a USA license USADA can show up and ask for a sample. It is a simple as that. 

No why on earth would anyone, in fact 3 guys, fake USADA badges? They like to watch sweaty dudes pee into a cup? You should have gone with the space alien excuse, it would be more believable.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

http://www.usada.org/uploads/2012_athlete_handbook.pdf



> "USADA retains the right to test any athlete at any time and any location."





> 4) USADA shows up unannounced
> 
> USADA pays for everything


Sounds like a targeted test


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## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

Wookiebiker said:


> There should be a proceedure in place to let the race promoter know they will be testing and who will be there. Is that so freaking hard to figure out? Really?


Yes. There should be a procedure to let the race promoter know the rider who is tearing it up the local scene and lives near the promoters might be target tested. Positives are bad for business.


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## Addict07 (Jun 23, 2011)

Maybe it's different in FL, but in NC/SC, there are always several certified officials at every race...I would have thought if there was any doubt about the legitimacy of the testers, the race officials would have confirmed them and told the promoter to back off.

I can understand the stealth tactics as USADA showed up at one of our bigger races a few years ago, and once the word got out, several guys mysteriously decided that rather than race, they needed to immediately head home to mow the lawn.


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## Kliemann53 (Jun 25, 2012)

Washington state also has USAC officials at sanctioned races. USADA should list there agents on there website so promoters can verify IDs with a smart phone.I've had a USAC license for the past 5 years and never heard of the USADA until this Lance Armstrong thing hit the fan.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

We've all read about the rise of doping at the amateur level in Fla. 40 something Cat 4's hittin the sauce to get better results. 
The staff at USADA knows where doping is taking place in greater numbers. Shouldn't be a shock that they showed at this race.
It has gotten bad enough that riders in Fla started an organization funded by donations to help USADA perform more testing.

Florida Clean Ride Fund


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Doesn't USADA have a number you can call to verify that a tester is legit? That would seem to be simple- you call their 800 number: "Mr ________ says he is from the USADA for a unscheduled test, can you confirm?" Them: "Yes, we confirm" You: "Ok, thanks".


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## allison (Apr 19, 2006)

Coolhand said:


> Doesn't USADA have a number you can call to verify that a tester is legit? That would seem to be simple- you call their 800 number: "Mr ________ says he is from the USADA for a unscheduled test, can you confirm?" Them: "Yes, we confirm" You: "Ok, thanks".


This, or the tester's could/should have an official letter? And, as noted... were there no other USAC officials there that maybe could have confirmed or been involved?


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## little_shoe (Apr 18, 2008)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> If you signed for a USAC license they can show up any time and test you
> /QUOTE]
> 
> USAC does not do a good job of explaining that in their literature and their registration process. Apart from recent events in the LA vs USADA doping case, the average USAC member would have no idea who usada is or what they do or how their system is setup.
> ...


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Coolhand said:


> Doesn't USADA have a number you can call to verify that a tester is legit? That would seem to be simple- you call their 800 number: "Mr ________ says he is from the USADA for a unscheduled test, can you confirm?" Them: "Yes, we confirm" You: "Ok, thanks".


this.

/ isn't that what I suggested way at the top of the thread?


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

little_shoe said:


> USAC does not do a good job of explaining that in their literature and their registration process. ...


it's been a few months but I seem to recall having to click-thru a very clear and specific online agreement to the effect of "yes I acknowledge" when I renewed my license. 





little_shoe said:


> Personally, I find USADA/WADA's process and system odorous...


Do you think it stinks, or do you think it's onerous?

Onerous - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary


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## Chainstay (Mar 13, 2004)

*A lot of urine going in the wrong cup*

USADA requires a few racers to pee in a cup and the race promoter and all these posters get pissy about it. It's the rules. I thought mostly we were in favour of competing inside these rules.

Attacking the bureaucracy is mostly of benefit to the dopers.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Why didn't the USAC official allow the guy to photograph his badge? Odd. 

I agree with Coolknees and Creakyhand. 

Every USAC license needs a 800 number on the back. Whenever they plan a suprise test they can man the hotline to verify the authenticity of the testers. 

"Hi, I'm so-and-so in XYZ city. There's a guy here who says he's from UCI/WADA/USADA and wants me to pee in a cup. His badge # is and his name is. Is this for real?"

It would take two minutes.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

vagabondcyclist said:


> You take the word of the officials that they are who they say they are without trying to intimidate them by asking to take pictures of their ID or calling the police on them.


I don't think taking a picture is intimidation. 

Does anyone here even know what a USADA badge looks like? 

Also, what good would an "Official Letter" do when we think people might be printing off fake badges? 

If someone can make a fake badge they can certainly make a fake letter. 



After reading the police report, I really like the racer Barbieri who cruised up and said, "Yeah, I know these guys. They're cool." Then he turned to the USADA officials and said, "You guys can test me if you want!" Hah. He just raced, he's all muddy, and he's volunteering to piss in a cup. Dude was probably half smashed from beer handups and trying to avoid the line at the outhouse.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Local Hero said:


> Why didn't the USAC official allow the guy to photograph his badge? Odd.
> 
> I agree with Coolknees and Creakyhand.
> 
> ...


That makes so much sense, it could never be implemented in a timely fashion.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

I'm fuzzy on something else. 

I completely understand not notifying the promoter. But why not notify the head official? Isn't it the official's job to make rulings on these matters? 

USADA can call the official and say, "So-and-so may show up and test some riders. I can email you a copy of his badge ID photo so you know what he looks like." 

Then the tester shows up and the official gives it a stamp of approval. After all, it seems like it should be up to the officials (not the police/sheriff) to decide these things. 

(I get it that often an individual will promote one weekend and officiate the next, but usually not the same event.)



As far as out of competition testing goes...if someone showed up at my home or office and demanded a blood sample I would tell them to pound sand. I don't give a care what my USAC license says.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

Local Hero said:


> I completely understand not notifying the promoter. But why not notify the head official? Isn't it the official's job to make rulings on these matters?


Why should the USAC officials or promoters be involved in any way? USADA operates independently of USAC or any of the other sports federations it serves. The request for testing involved only the USADA agents and the athletes. The fact that a bike race may or may not have been going on at the time is immaterial.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

asgelle said:


> Why should the USAC officials or promoters be involved in any way? USADA operates independently of USAC or any of the other sports federations it serves. The request for testing involved only the USADA agents and the athletes. The fact that a bike race may or may not have been going on at the time is immaterial.


That's a fair point. 

I suppose the answer to a) avoid this type of SNAFU and b) the testing was to be performed at the race venue, which in many ways is under the control and supervision of the promoter and officials.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

I wonder if the organizer have heard news the last month that disturbed him and made him kinda pissy towards the USADA


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

Local Hero said:


> ...b) the testing was to be performed at the race venue, which in many ways is under the control and supervision of the promoter and officials.


Really, it sounded like it was a public accommodation. And the only SANFU was the promoter inserting himself in business he had no part of.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

The promoter had an interest for the reasons mentioned above, not the least of which is his own liability. 

A better question is why the USADA goons even approached the promoter in the first place when they could have intercepted the racer(s) in the parking lot. 

Even then, having a 1-800-USADADCO validation hotline on the back of the USAC license would make life easier for all involved.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

Local Hero said:


> The promoter had an interest for the reasons mentioned above, not the least of which is his own liability.


Have you ever promoted a race? There are no liability issues here.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

If the premise is that these are real USADA officials then there is no liability issue. If their identity is in question and the promoter is trying to cover his own a$$ then the actions make sense. 

It would also make sense to notify an official to give them heads up on the procedure. (Even if this is not required by USADA rules&regs.)

Having an 800 verification number would make sense. 

Or a website - maybe something someone can access with a smart phone. The DCO shows up and gives a code, the person goes to the USADA page and enters the code where they can see the USADA DCO's photo and the name of the people or event listed for testing.

Again, either the phone number or the USADA website with a code would take just two minutes to verify. 

What doesn't make sense--at least not to me--is having someone show up, flash a badge (and I have no idea what that badge is supposed to look like) and demand people start giving blood or urine samples without question. 

My main point here is not against testing. I am not for doping. It is to make the entire process easier. 

On that we can agree to disagree.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

metoou2 said:


> We've all read about the rise of doping at the amateur level in Fla. 40 something Cat 4's hittin the sauce to get better results.
> The staff at USADA knows where doping is taking place in greater numbers. Shouldn't be a shock that they showed at this race.
> It has gotten bad enough that riders in Fla started an organization funded by donations to help USADA perform more testing.
> 
> Florida Clean Ride Fund


And on that note...

Rumors at Tour of the Dairyland and SpeedWeek were that numerous floridian masters are juicers.


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## wooglin (Feb 22, 2002)

I've ridden a couple of this promoters events. They're good, but not great. Very regimented with an eye towards making things go smoothly (which is good for him from a profit perspective and good for racers as well), but also not very flexible for when the unexpected occurs. I can see the promoter getting his shorts all bundled up when something happens that he's not prepared for. That's his first reaction if I recall. 

Also, FWIW, the guy is running a USA Cycling-sanctioned state championship series. The benefits to him are he can charge a premium and still get people to show up, and he gets a discount on insurance. That he then has a hissy fit when the other USA Cycling shoe drops and he gets visited by doping controls doesn't really speak very well of him IMO.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Local Hero said:


> The promoter had an interest for the reasons mentioned above, not the least of which is his own liability.
> 
> A better question is why the USADA goons even approached the promoter in the first place when they could have intercepted the racer(s) in the parking lot.
> 
> Even then, having a 1-800-USADADCO validation hotline on the back of the USAC license would make life easier for all involved.



Because their regs say they have to. The promoter however has not leg to stand of for trying to block the procedure. I sincerely hope he gets in a assload of trouble for it.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Addict07 said:


> I can understand the stealth tactics as USADA showed up at one of our bigger races a few years ago, and once the word got out, several guys mysteriously decided that rather than race, they needed to immediately head home to mow the lawn.



Heard about that incident, heard one of the guys was even all kitted up but then decided to not race.

At least they caught Cannell.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

This was a targeted test. They were there to test one specific rider. As it is not unusual for a riders to bolt as soon as they hear that there is testing. 

USADA followed the rules. They presented their identification and the response from the promoter was to do everything possible to harass and obstruct them. 

He got on his megaphone and told riders to ignore the testers
called the police
complained about blood testing when USADA made it clear that this was urine only
Had the police thinking USADA was an off shoot, fanatical, organization

In the end the guy who was the focus of the target test escaped. 

As recently as 2 days ago USAC had a document describing the process for USADA testing on their website. It clearly discussed testing with no advanced notice and that USADA would pay for this.....today the document has been taken down.


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## pianopiano (Jun 4, 2005)

*promoter = fail*



den bakker said:


> I wonder if the organizer have heard news the last month that disturbed him and made him kinda pissy towards the USADA


Apparently the promoter's not the only one who's being kinda pissy towards the USADA :thumbsup:


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## Rip Van Cycle (Jun 11, 2012)

*One word*



Doctor Falsetti said:


> Now why on earth would anyone, in fact 3 guys, fake USADA badges? They like to watch sweaty dudes pee into a cup?


Unfortunately, there is an answer to this question...

Urolagnia

c.f.: scatology


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## Chainstay (Mar 13, 2004)

*A lot of urine going in the wrong cup*

USADA requires a few racers to pee in a cup and the race promoter and many of RBR posters get all pissy about it. It's the rules. I thought mostly we were in favour of competing inside these rules.

Rules and bureaucracy must go together. Attacking the bureaucracy and making it more difficult to do testing benefits the dopers.


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## OldChipper (May 15, 2011)

That's right! You all know, don't you, that USADA is a law unto itself , able to go wherever they want in pursuit of evil athletes who are all guilty until proven innocent. Why should they have to identify themselves? They dont need no stinkin' badges! It's not like they coild be some weird perverts who get off on watching someone pee in a cup. For gosh sake people, it's World Peace at stake here!!! Someone might place third in some rinky-dink local event that didn't deserve it! Then where would we be? Dogs and cats, living together... mass hysteria! [/sarcasm]

As an aside, I wonder if the reaction here would be a tad bit different if they had shown up at a Junior's race... in an old overcoat. "Excuse me Mrs. Jones, I'm going to take little Johnie over here behind the shed and watch him pee.". 

All of which is to say that, yeah, there should be some simple way, Iike the 800 number, to easily and quickly verify everything is on the up-and-up.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

OldChipper said:


> That's right! You all know, don't you, that USADA is a law unto itself , able to go wherever they want in pursuit of evil athletes who are all guilty until proven innocent. Why should they have to identify themselves? They dont need no stinkin' badges! It's not like they coild be some weird perverts who get off on watching someone pee in a cup. For gosh sake people, it's World Peace at stake here!!! Someone might place third in some rinky-dink local event that didn't deserve it! Then where would we be? Dogs and cats, living together... mass hysteria! [/sarcasm]
> 
> As an aside, I wonder if the reaction here would be a tad bit different if they had shown up at a Junior's race... in an old overcoat. "Excuse me Mrs. Jones, I'm going to take little Johnie over here behind the shed and watch him pee.".
> 
> All of which is to say that, yeah, there should be some simple way, Iike the 800 number, to easily and quickly verify everything is on the up-and-up.


Actually they are allowed to show up at any sanctioned event un-announced. If you don't like that you need to not register to race because that is exactly what you agreed too when you got a licence. Don't like it? Get the out of the sport.


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## Rip Van Cycle (Jun 11, 2012)

Coolhand said:


> Doesn't USADA have a number you can call to verify that a tester is legit? That would seem to be simple- you call their 800 number: "Mr ________ says he is from the USADA for a unscheduled test, can you confirm?" Them: "Yes, we confirm" You: "Ok, thanks".


Holy (bleep)... is this too much to ask?!?


32and3cross said:


> Actually they are allowed to show up at any sanctioned event un-announced. If you don't like that...


I think we're tacking into "straw man" territory here. I don't think anyone here said that USADA _shouldn't_ be able to conduct a urine test in an impromptu manner. Folks would just like a way to assure that the officials are who they claim they are. 

That said, how would an USADA official react if someone gave him Tuco's line from "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly?" ("I can't- with you watching me.") What's the next step, then? Cystocentesis?!


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Rip Van Cycle said:


> Holy (bleep)... is this too much to ask?!?I think we're tacking into "straw man" territory here. I don't think anyone here said that USADA _shouldn't_ be able to conduct a urine test in an impromptu manner. Folks would just like a way to assure that the officials are who they claim they are.
> 
> That said, how would an USADA official react if someone gave him Tuco's line from "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly?" ("I can't- with you watching me.") What's the next step, then? Cystocentesis?!


well the USADA did not reject any investigation to who they were from the person to be tested did they?


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Rip Van Cycle said:


> Folks would just like a way to assure that the officials are who they claim they are.


They do.....and those credentials were provided to the race organizer. He decided to ignore them and create chaos


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Rip Van Cycle said:


> Holy (bleep)... is this too much to ask?!?I think we're tacking into "straw man" territory here. I don't think anyone here said that USADA _shouldn't_ be able to conduct a urine test in an impromptu manner. Folks would just like a way to assure that the officials are who they claim they are.
> 
> That said, how would an USADA official react if someone gave him Tuco's line from "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly?" ("I can't- with you watching me.") What's the next step, then? Cystocentesis?!


The USADA officials provided creds the promoter decided to create his own set of what was acceptable which your not allowed to do.

You get to stay there til you can pee, they will wait.

I repeat, if you don't want to play by the rules you agreed to already, please get the hell out of the sport.


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