# Is this a chick thing or is it just me?



## chatterbox (Nov 19, 2006)

I do most of my riding on my commute, and my husband has been trying to get me into clipless pedals, largely so that I can be comfortable enough in them to mountainbike with him. Also because he's convinced that platforms suck. I've been riding platforms for 8 months quite comfortably. 

My problem is this:
When I'm clipped in, my left leg doesn't feel right. It feels as if it is being gently twisted. If I wiggle around enough to get it lined up comfortably, I end up clipping out. It also feels about as efficient as walking in heels (which I don't do.) When I ride platforms I keep the pedal under the ball of my foot, not the center, but clipped in felt even further up than that, as if I was riding on tiptoe. I did not enjoy the experience at all.

How much of this is an adjustment issue, how much of this is I'm crazy, and does any of this have to do with hip width to knee width ratio?

thanks...


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

chatterbox said:


> I do most of my riding on my commute, and my husband has been trying to get me into clipless pedals, largely so that I can be comfortable enough in them to mountainbike with him. Also because he's convinced that platforms suck. I've been riding platforms for 8 months quite comfortably.
> 
> My problem is this:
> When I'm clipped in, my left leg doesn't feel right. It feels as if it is being gently twisted. If I wiggle around enough to get it lined up comfortably, I end up clipping out. It also feels about as efficient as walking in heels (which I don't do.) When I ride platforms I keep the pedal under the ball of my foot, not the center, but clipped in felt even further up than that, as if I was riding on tiptoe. I did not enjoy the experience at all.
> ...


get speedplays.


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## collinsc (Feb 3, 2004)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> get speedplays.


Stupid answer.

Take the time to adjust everything. Different pedals have different adjustment ranges, different feels, and different action.

You didn't say what sort of clipless you were using.


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## chatterbox (Nov 19, 2006)

collinsc said:


> Stupid answer.
> 
> Take the time to adjust everything. Different pedals have different adjustment ranges, different feels, and different action.
> 
> You didn't say what sort of clipless you were using.


speedplay I think. The pedals are Mallets by crank brothers. I'm not sure how to adjust these so that they don't pull at my knee. And would the feeling of being on tiptoe mean that they're somehow too far forward? And should I crosspost this to general or somewhere else?


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## Rollo Tommassi (Feb 5, 2004)

*???*



chatterbox said:


> speedplay I think. The pedals are Mallets by crank brothers.


Speedplay and Crank Bros are not compatible.

Cleat alignment does sound too far forward, and you should be able to angle the cleat to 'toe in' or 'toe out' to accomodate your leg motion. A minor adjustment can make a world of difference.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

It's an adjustment issue.

Because a clipless pedal system locks your foot on in a fixed position, the cleat on the bottom of the shoe needs to be positioned very carefully.

Here's how I do it. First, I place the cleat so that the ball of my foot is over the pedal axle. I generally just guess. Hold the shoes up with the cleats and heels touching to make sure that both are set to the same position. It's ok to set the cleats so that the pedal axle is a little bit back on your foot (towards the arch) but I wouldn't move it forward past the spot where the ball of your foot is over the pedal axle.

Now, set the foot angle. Clip in and ride a bit (I use a trainer but you can do it on the road too, just bring the appropriate tool for the cleat bolts). If you want to move your heels in from where the cleat position puts them, then you need to rotate the cleats in. Keep at it until you have the cleats positioned so that your legs feel completely natural when you pedal.
You may find that you want to rotate one foot differently than the other. That's ok, not everyone is exactly symmetrical.


Once you are happy with where your cleats are, make sure the bolts are tight and take a magic marker and outline the cleats on the sole. That way if they slip, you can put them back to the right spot.


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## Sashana (Dec 19, 2007)

I gave clip-ins a 3 month try and hated them. I was going to give them another try but then I read what Grant had to say on rivbike.com. What he says convinced me to just stay with my platforms. While platforms aren't right for everyone, neither are clip-ins. IMO. I mtb just fine with my platforms as well.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Sashana


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Chatter, are these your pedals?


.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

the problem sounds like a "float" issue.....which is the amount of "twist" your foot can make. Watch your feet carefully when you walk up a set of stairs...whichever way your toes point when walking up stairs is the direction and angle you should try to strive for in the cleat and pedal adjustment. Otherwise it can put a LOT of strain on , your joints in the knee, ankle and foot. Stairs reasonably approximate the action of pedaling without the bike or pedals.

If I am not mistaken spd pedals generally have more float.


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## KayTee (Jun 24, 2006)

Touch0Gray said:


> If I am not mistaken spd pedals generally have more float.


Good advice except that spds generally don't have as much lateral float as, say, Speedplays. These are often recommended for people w/knee and hip alignment issues. 

Chatter, would you consider having a customer-friendly LBS evaluate and adjust your pedals and cleat position? Good luck!


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

KayTee said:


> Good advice except that spds generally don't have as much lateral float as, say, Speedplays. These are often recommended for people w/knee and hip alignment issues.
> 
> Chatter, would you consider having a customer-friendly LBS evaluate and adjust your pedals and cleat position? Good luck!


Sorry I guess I am not understanding what you mean by lateral float.....not saying you're wrong...what I was referring to was the ability to "twist" the foot to either side without "clipping out"

my old worn spd's let me twist my foot close to 10 degrees, maybe more. Might be the wear on them...


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## KayTee (Jun 24, 2006)

Touch0Gray said:


> Sorry I guess I am not understanding what you mean by lateral float.....not saying you're wrong...what I was referring to was the ability to "twist" the foot to either side without "clipping out"
> 
> my old worn spd's let me twist my foot close to 10 degrees, maybe more. Might be the wear on them...


TOG, you understand lateral float correctly. Speedplay's literature says their X series (original style) road pedals provide 37 degrees of lateral float.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

KayTee said:


> TOG, you understand lateral float correctly. Speedplay's literature says their X series (original style) road pedals provide 37 degrees of lateral float.


wow...37 degrees...holy crap, If I turn my leg that far, I'm going to need an orthopedic surgeon...lol

That's good to know....I use spd with no problems but one of the reasons was the float issue.


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## KayTee (Jun 24, 2006)

It was my orthopedic surgeon who put me in 'em!


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

KayTee said:


> It was my orthopedic surgeon who put me in 'em!


aha....so it is a "chick" thing.....lol....cause I am not a "chick..."

I have use the "stair" thing to gauge cleat alignment for a LOT of people. it is very accurate and simple....for the best results, the leg should maintain their natural position for maximum comfort.

Chatterbox, it is possible that your cleats ARE too far forward...I started with mine directly under the ball of my foot but ended up, over the years, moving them back almost 2 cm..I can ride 50 miles without getting out of the saddle and I am probably old enough to be your........uh......dad........


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## KayTee (Jun 24, 2006)

Touch0Gray said:


> aha....so it is a "chick" thing.....lol....cause I am not a "chick..."


Hey, on behalf of us chicks I resemble that remark! :wink5: The orthopod put my (male) SO in Speedplays, too! Your "stair thing" is a nice, handy indicator though.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

KayTee said:


> Hey, on behalf of us chicks I resemble that remark! :wink5: The orthopod put my (male) SO in Speedplays, too! Your "stair thing" is a nice, handy indicator though.


I LIKE "chicks" I got 4 of my own......LOL......hmmm, that sounds bad huh?
(3 daughters and a wife) (not that I profess to understand the fairer of the species)


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

collinsc said:


> Stupid answer.
> 
> Take the time to adjust everything. Different pedals have different adjustment ranges, different feels, and different action.
> 
> You didn't say what sort of clipless you were using.


 I don't think "Get Speedplays" is a stupid answer, but it does need some explanation. The OP says she feels like her leg is being twisted by the pedal. This could be a problem with adjustment, or it could be a problem with her physiology if she's at the limits of adjustment. If it's the latter Speedplays are good because they are one of (or perhaps the only) major pedal system that doesn't have a centering spring trying to pull your leg into the center position. They really float and let your leg follow its natural path. If she's trying to get comfortable for mountain biking in clipless, she should at least consider trying the Speedplay Frogs. I use these on both road and mountain bikes- really simple with lots of non-centering float.


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

With CrankBros cleats, you can swap the cleats (L vs R) to select the amount of float. I think in this case, even the Speedplay float will not resolve the problem--since it sounds like it is a for-aft positioning problem.

If you have a bike shop that you're a regular of, they should be willing to help you for minimal cost--or you can spend $100+ and get a full-on fitting.

Here's Crank Brothers instructions for selecting amount of float:
For a 15 degree release angle (earlier release) on both feet, place the cleat with the two dots on the right shoe. For a 20 degree release angle (later release) on both feet, place the cleat with the two circles on the left shoe.

http://www.crankbrothers.com/tech_mallet.php


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## chatterbox (Nov 19, 2006)

thanks, all.

Yes, songo, those are indeed my pedals. I think that I had frogs on my roadbike years and years ago when I rode it, hence my confusion. 

Sashana, thanks for the encouragement that I might be ok hanging out with platforms. I'll give the clipless a fair shot first, though.

My husband can probably do the adjusting part for me, it will just take a few rounds, I guess. Riding home tonight I had no problems with my right leg, just my goofy left leg. 

Again, thanks for the input. I had thought that since my knee issues are related to my wide hips (the chick part) that this problem might be, too. But it would appear that I'm just temporarily maladjusted.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

^ I've got wide hips, and if I ride a float-less pedal, like you, I feel like my legs are being twisted (especially my right one). I think you'll feel more comfortable with clipless pedals if you go with some non-recentering float ones like speedplays in conjunction with going to an experienced fitter to help you get the cleats AND your bike adjusted properly. Because my hips are wide, I end up moving the cleat to the far inside of my shoes. Otherwise, my knees start to hurt.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

California L33 said:


> I don't think "Get Speedplays" is a stupid answer, but it does need some explanation. The OP says she feels like her leg is being twisted by the pedal. This could be a problem with adjustment, or it could be a problem with her physiology if she's at the limits of adjustment. If it's the latter Speedplays are good because they are one of (or perhaps the only) major pedal system that doesn't have a centering spring trying to pull your leg into the center position. They really float and let your leg follow its natural path. If she's trying to get comfortable for mountain biking in clipless, she should at least consider trying the Speedplay Frogs. I use these on both road and mountain bikes- really simple with lots of non-centering float.


yup...I don't use them personally, but the sports medicine doc in town tells people with knee tracking issues that they may help their symptoms.


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## sokudo (Dec 22, 2007)

get BeBops


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## roadfix (Jun 20, 2006)

If you continue to have problems, seeing a fitter may not be a bad idea.


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## Doggity (Mar 10, 2006)

roadfix said:


> If you continue to have problems, seeing a fitter may not be a bad idea.


Word...this is _really_ something not to be trifled with. I'm betting you have varus (feet angling outward to differing degrees). You may very well need your cleats set up differently for each leg. You don't want to get a repetitive motion injury, or iliotibial band syndrome, like I got. Have to say, my knees are happier with the platform pedals on my SS MTB, because I'm not locked in, doing the exact same motion for 50 miles. I'm shifting my stance on the pedals, I'm standing and stomping, etc etc. But if you're dialed in _right,_ ain't no reason why you shouldn't be able to ride clipless.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

One thing you might want to try is to put the platform pedals back on and ride. After a while, stare down at your feet to see the positions they've settled into. Try to duplicate those positions on the cleated pedals by adjusting the cleat around.

Also, I must tell you that I've found free-floating cleated pedals to be much more comfortable than the spring-loaded floating pedals.


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## Kawboy8 (Feb 26, 2006)

Maybe you have been using flats so long that your feet are in the wrong position and when you use clips they are forcing you to be in the correct position? Not to mention, if you concentrate on them and look for something to be wrong...you will find it. Just do what your husband says!! ; )


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## lawrence (May 17, 2005)

I use Crank Brothers Candy and Quattro pedals. Last year I tried Shimano SPD pedals for 2 weeks, riding almost every day. With those pedals I felt the same thing. My toe seemed to be locked in and it was difficult to move it. Naturally one foot wants to be straight and the other I had injured so that foot naturally wants to turn a little outward. The Crank Brothers pedals allow me that flexibility. I could do Chubby Checker's twist with my toes. I recommend those. I've never used Speedplay so I can't comment on those.


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## Mr Wood (Feb 23, 2006)

Andrea138 said:


> I've got wide hips


This is something all women should take into account. Because women have wider hips, the "Q" factor may need to be adjusted. If you can adjust the cleat to the inside of your shoe, effectively moving your feet out and more in line with your hips, that might help. You may need some pedals that are set wider apart (sorry, someone else may be able to answer what brand that might be)

So yes, it may be a "chick thing" after all.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

Mr Wood said:


> This is something all women should take into account. Because women have wider hips, the "Q" factor may need to be adjusted. If you can adjust the cleat to the inside of your shoe, effectively moving your feet out and more in line with your hips, that might help. You may need some pedals that are set wider apart (sorry, someone else may be able to answer what brand that might be)
> 
> So yes, it may be a "chick thing" after all.


They are all pretty close, so I stick to my speedplays because I love the float. If you need a wider Q factor, there are several companies that make various length pedal spindle spacers that can help out. 

Oh yeah, and just because a woman has a fat ass doesn't mean that she's got wide hips. It could very well be narrow hips covered in fat  Same thing goes the other way around- even if a woman is low in body fat, she still may have wide hips. It's all about the pelvic structure!


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