# One more thread about Contador's attack



## llama31 (Jan 13, 2006)

Brunyeel seemed a little displeased with Conti's tactics in his post-stage interview. Lance decided to "bite his tongue" but who cares what he thinks because he was out of it anyway.

I think the bottom line is that Contador could have harmed his own cause with that attack. It's almost always better to have a teammate with you than not. And since he didn't really need time on the Schlecks, he ended up isolating himself. Even if he had discussed it with Kloden, it was dumb. Suppose the Schlecks decided to repeatedly attack him in the final 3 km, then he'd have to burn some energy covering each move. It's not clear Kloden could have hleped but his presence would have made a difference.

In the end, it probably helped, because Conti got pulled to the finish by the Schlecks and put more time on Wiggins. But I don't think he could have expected that.

So the bottom line is, how much leeway does he deserve? Certainly no one would have b&tched if lance did the same in his last few years. He was the boss. Is Contador at that point?


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## seeborough (Feb 3, 2004)

As much as I dislike Armstrong at times - I do not recall him attacking a teammate with a shot a the final podium.
The attack might have brought Contador some time, but it cost him Kloeden. 

On the Ventoux, this might turn out to have been a bad trade.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Since Contador hasn't won too many stages of the race, wonder why he just let Frank have the finish. I thought gifting of stages was so 90's. He clearly was the freshest of the finishers. I can see Andy doing it for all the work his brother has, but why let a rival have a stage win?


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## seeborough (Feb 3, 2004)

No time bonuses - so, why not? He might need some new friends...


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

seeborough said:


> As much as I dislike Armstrong at times - I do not recall him attacking a teammate with a shot a the final podium.
> The attack might have brought Contador some time, but it cost him Kloeden.
> 
> On the Ventoux, this might turn out to have been a bad trade.


He never did, because when Heras and Rubiera, etc. took him up climbs, he left them by the side of the road in a pile of ashes, so he never had teammates with GC podium hopes.

This year is different because Astana has played it coy from the beginning and also because Kloeden and Armstrong are much stronger than LA's teammates were overall.

Edit: not disparaging Armstrong here. I just don't recall him ever having a teammate with GC hopes - and USPS and Disco had their climbers bury themselves riding tempo before they peeled off, so they weren't podium candidates


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## Harold Snepsts (Apr 26, 2009)

The thing is, Contador did not open up some huge gap with a sustained attack. It was a sudden acceleration that put his teammate into difficulty. I don't see how it put any more significant time into Wiggins than he would have if they'd all stayed together on the climb.

And I'm not a huge fan of some of the things Armstrong has done in his career, but he is a good tactician. I don't remember him ever making such a poorly executed (assuming it was intentional) attack that only caused him to drop his teammate.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

The glory of winning a stage might be nice. Giving a win aways is cowardly.


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## footballcat (Jul 8, 2004)

astana just ended there hopes 

remember there is a massive climb saturday, and kloden and armstrong will get dropped by the same guys that dropped them today


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

Harold Snepsts said:


> The thing is, Contador did not open up some huge gap with a sustained attack. It was a sudden acceleration that put his teammate into difficulty. I don't see how it put any more significant time into Wiggins than he would have if they'd all stayed together on the climb.
> 
> And I'm not a huge fan of some of the things Armstrong has done in his career, but he is a good tactician. I don't remember him ever making such a poorly executed (assuming it was intentional) attack that only caused him to drop his teammate.


I don't think there is any debate about who the better tactitian is between LA and AC.

If anything, LA has shown that he has lost none of his tactical smarts in the time off by the way he rode today and yesterday, sucking wheel long enough to kill the GC threats, then jumping to take back some time for himself. It's really been something to see.


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## Gripped (Nov 27, 2002)

spookyload said:


> Since Contador hasn't won too many stages of the race, wonder why he just let Frank have the finish. I thought gifting of stages was so 90's. He clearly was the freshest of the finishers. I can see Andy doing it for all the work his brother has, but why let a rival have a stage win?


The Schlecks would have attacked and countered to get the stage win anyway. However, that would have reduced the time differences to the chasers -- most notably Wiggins. By coming to an agreement that all three could live with, they were able to maximize their time margins.


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## BuenosAires (Apr 3, 2004)

footballcat said:


> astana just ended there hopes
> 
> remember there is a massive climb saturday, and kloden and armstrong will get dropped by the same guys that dropped them today


I guess you forgot about the TT tomorrow where said guys will gain minutes on the Schleck's.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

I really don't see why all the fuss over Cont's move. Not the smartest most defnitely, but I'm postivie it wasn't motivated in trying to bury one of his teammates and lone compadre on the climb.. It could be one part "_I want to bury the Schlecks like I bury everyone,_" and one part, "I need to put time on Wiggins".

Perhaps he thought Kloden could hang? If Kloden could've hung and matched Cont, or bridged past the Schlecks should they be unable to latch on, then it would've played out well. But I haven't seen the stage yet so I don't have a good idea as to what went down.

What I'd like to hear (I've been working all day) is his reasoning. Anyone know the scoop?

And I have no idea why peeps here are in a dither as to his gifting the stage win, if indeed that was the case. It happens a lot in the Tdf as much as it doesn't, it seems. One guy does all the work and the "sportsmanlike" thing to do is not attack him on the line.

Just mah .02.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

seeborough said:


> As much as I dislike Armstrong at times - I do not recall him attacking a teammate with a shot a the final podium.
> The attack might have brought Contador some time, but it cost him Kloeden.
> 
> On the Ventoux, this might turn out to have been a bad trade.


None of Armstrong's teammates were in a position for the podium. It was all for one.

Lance is having a hard time with not being the "one".


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## llama31 (Jan 13, 2006)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> I really don't see why all the fuss over Cont's move. Not the smartest most defnitely, but I'm postivie it wasn't motivated in trying to bury one of his teammates and lone compadre on the climb.. It could be one part "_I want to bury the Schlecks like I bury everyone,_" and one part, "I need to put time on Wiggins".
> 
> Perhaps he thought Kloden could hang? If Kloden could've hung and matched Cont, or bridged past the Schlecks should they be unable to latch on, then it would've played out well. But I haven't seen the stage yet so I don't have a good idea as to what went down.
> 
> ...


Actually, I agree. I don't believe he was trying harm Kloden of LA's chance at the podium. I think he just wasn't thinking. He's obviously a fierce competitor and I think he probably wanted to "bury" the Schlecks as you said and couldn't resist. My theory is that then JB yelled in his ear to stop. From what I saw, his accleration worked quite well in that he had gapped the Schlecks by a decent distance. They may have caught him on the descent, but maybe not.


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## C6Rider (Nov 15, 2008)

I think that any time gained in the ITT will be lost on the climb to Ventoux


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## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

FondriestFan said:


> None of Armstrong's teammates were in a position for the podium. It was all for one.
> 
> Lance is having a hard time with not being the "one".


This is true. But I still think that Contador's attack didn't make much sense. I doubt there was anything malicious in it, though. He thought he might be able to distance the Schlecks. He couldn't. Don't think he gained anything by it either. I don't see Wiggins as a threat to Contador winning, but Wiggins was and is a threat to Astana's hopes at more than one rider on the podium. The biggest beneficiary of the attack was A. Shleck. No, he isn't that good at the time trial, but now he has a fairly substantial cushion.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

It was less than a 200 meter effort for god's sake.

Klodin and he talked about it, Klodin said go & I'll go with you. Klodin couldn't go. When Conti realized it he backed off. It was a momentary thing.

What he did next was tacticially sound.

He won't do the same thing again when he is 32.:blush2: 

Much todo about nothing IMO.

In the end, the schecks burned more matches than anyone going into a key ITT and 3 days before ventoux & wiggins lost time to everyone.

Sets up a great ITT and Ventoux stage.

Len


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

Contador is a powerful and dangerous athlete. He is not a very smart tactician, however. I don't think he was "trying" to harm Kloden; I think he was just being stupid. He is obviously a very, very emotional rider, and sometimes that gets the best of him. I think sometimes he just "goes" and doesn't think about what he is doing. Sometimes that helps him and sometimes it is counterproductive. 

On the other hand, he has gotten very upset in the past about his teammates (Leipheimer) finishing too close to him in the GC. He doesn't like that.


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## unai (Oct 10, 2003)

oarsman said:


> This is true. But I still think that Contador's attack didn't make much sense. I doubt there was anything malicious in it, though. He thought he might be able to distance the Schlecks. He couldn't. Don't think he gained anything by it either. I don't see Wiggins as a threat to Contador winning, but Wiggins was and is a threat to Astana's hopes at more than one rider on the podium. The biggest beneficiary of the attack was A. Shleck. No, he isn't that good at the time trial, but now he has a fairly substantial cushion.



In my opinion it made a lot of sense if your main enemy is in your team.


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

Look people, Kloden would've been dropped anyway so any argument is fruitless. He was obviously in very bad condition by that point, maybe didn't eat enough or some physical thing was going on. Even that long downhill recovery didn't do anything for him as he was gapped big time when Nibali did his weak sprint at the finish.


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## stefang31 (Jul 21, 2009)

*nope*



spookyload said:


> The glory of winning a stage might be nice. Giving a win aways is cowardly.



You are wrong, dead wrong, Armstrong was very obviously not giving everything, his role was to stick with Wiggins, with Wiggins out you will see Armstrong take his place on the podium, this is clear. 

This message was an intended reply to the quote above this one where the author says Armstrong will be dropped just like he was today.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

llama31 said:


> Brunyeel seemed a little displeased with Conti's tactics in his post-stage interview. Lance decided to "bite his tongue" but who cares what he thinks because he was out of it anyway.


The text, in case someone hasn't seen it:
http://tour-de-france.velonews.com/article/95685/

My guess is he's just a self-centered hammerhead that's young enough to believe himself invincible, and too shortsighted to remember that there are races beyond the end of the week.


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

My question is where was the team car? Why wasn't it following the yellow jersey?


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

danl1 said:


> The text, in case someone hasn't seen it:
> http://tour-de-france.velonews.com/article/95685/
> 
> My guess is he's just a self-centered hammerhead that's young enough to believe himself invincible, and too shortsighted to remember that there are races beyond the end of the week.


Sort of reminds one of another young brash champion called Armstrong.

Well except for the fact that at age 26 Contador has already won all 3 Grand Tours.

And there are no races beyond the end of this week for him until the Vuelta or so.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

FondriestFan said:


> Sort of reminds one of another young brash champion called Armstrong.
> 
> Well except for the fact that at age 26 Contador has already won all 3 Grand Tours.
> 
> And there are no races beyond the end of this week for him until the Vuelta or so.


That's the kind of small-minded thought I'm talking about. He's significantly hurt his chances of assembling a winning team around him. His future won't be bright with Vino, and he's not bright enough to hang with JB... He's setting himself up to pull a Cadel - the best rider not on a team. He is brash enough to think that someone that knows nothing about cycling will build a successful team around him - but with actions like this, they'll have a hell of a time attracting the help he'll need to look as good as he does with Astana. 

That might be okay for a season or so, but if he wants to be a legend, he's going to need to mature and understand that even the leader of a team is still a member of the team. 

Armstrong never stiffed his teammates in this style. I think it was unintentional, but it was still a bad move. A better tactical mind wouldn't have made the mistake. 

To the extent it is like Lance, it's like the pre-cancer Lance... A gifted rider destined to win some races, but not a champion. Conti has some growing up to do.

He didn't do anything to meaningfully improve his odds today - he didn't put time into the Schlecks, and didn't need to put it into WIggins. Unless he happens to suck up the TT, which odds he increased by burning matches that he didn't need to today.


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## stefang31 (Jul 21, 2009)

amen to that *danl1*


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## NextTime (Oct 13, 2007)

It's really interesting to see the difference of opinion on the efficacy of Contador's attack. It's clear to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was counterproductive to the team (Kloden in particular), and that he personally gained nothing by it.

He knew full well that his attack may put Kloden into difficulty. At best, he was simply indifferent to his team's interests, at worst, well you know where I'm headed with that. 

Regardless of whether LA finishes on the podium, he will have earned the respect of the peleton, and his place at the start of next year's TDF. 

My two cents.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

NextTime said:


> It's really interesting to see the difference of opinion on the efficacy of Contador's attack. It's clear to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was counterproductive to the team (Kloden in particular), and that he personally gained nothing by it.
> 
> He knew full well that his attack may put Kloden into difficulty. At best, he was simply indifferent to his team's interests, at worst, well you know where I'm headed with that.
> 
> ...


come on guys - it's easy to judge the effectiveness of the strategy AFTER you see the end result on TV. But let me remind you that both of the previous moves of Contador on mountain stages were from the group that contained his teammates - Armstrong and Kloden, and even Leipheimer. Both times the moves worked and Contador put time into others - this is why he is now ahead of Schlecks. Both times the teammates were able to follow the group chasing him - at least for quite some time.

On the other hand, there were several instances where there would be an isolated small group, and he would just sit in it, the group loses steam and other riders catch them from behind and they all finish together. Like yesterday's stage.

Imagine this scenario: Conti doesn't attack, Schlecks slow down, Wiggo&Niebali group catches them - no time gained on Wiggo. Contador is blamed for not attacking.

Imagine this scenario: Conti attacks, Schlecks try to follow, Kloden comfortably sits on them as a passenger, Schlecks blow up, rested Kloden bridges to Conti on descent, they finish 1-2 on the stage. Or maybe Conti goes on to win the stage by 2 min on Schlecks who arrive with Kloden. Either way Contador is a genius.

All hypothetical of course.

So the bottom line - it's easy to criticize all AC moves that didn't work out for whatever reasons outside of AC control, and praise all AC moves that DID work.


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## B2 (Mar 12, 2002)

*Unfortunate Move by AC*



oarsman said:


> This is true. But I still think that Contador's attack didn't make much sense. I doubt there was anything malicious in it, though...... The biggest beneficiary of the attack was A. Shleck.


I would have to agree. I think AC just made a bad judgment call or maybe we should give him the benefit of doubt and chalk it up to a misunderstanding due to differences in language or ?? There are too many conspiracy theories being thrown around here.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

I just saw the stage and tried to keep an open mind. I am a Contador fan and a Lance fan.

Bottom line: bone-headed move by Conti. He thought he could do another Verbier and take the stage. But with such a long descent even had he dropped the Schlecks they probably would have caught him on the downhill, so the risk (of dropping your teammate who is vying for 2d or 3d on the podium) easily outweighs the reward (low probability of winning the stage).

Conti is 26, he still has a lot to learn (see, e.g., his 2009 Paris-Nice penultimate stage blunder). I'm sure if he could take it back he would do it in a heartbeat.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

*WHAAAaaaat!*



fornaca68 said:


> I just saw the stage and tried to keep an open mind. I am a Contador fan and a Lance fan.
> 
> Bottom line: bone-headed move by Conti. *He thought he could do another Verbier and take the stage*. But with such a long descent even had he dropped the Schlecks they probably would have caught him on the downhill, so the risk (of dropping your teammate who is vying for 2d or 3d on the podium) easily outweighs the reward (low probability of winning the stage).
> 
> Conti is 26, he still has a lot to learn (see, e.g., his 2009 Paris-Nice penultimate stage blunder). I'm sure if he could take it back he would do it in a heartbeat.



...was he thinking? I just saw the stage too. 

I cannot possibly know for sure what he had in mind, but bone-head indeed. Now I see why all the fuss.

I still say he probably wasn't trying to _ditch_ Kloden. But he did. Oooooops.  

Pretty funny. Looks like _two_ youngsters got schooled today.

In Lownjer terms...Noooobsauce. Somebody get that boy a beet.


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## omenbringer (May 15, 2006)

thechriswebb said:


> He is not a very smart tactician, however. I don't think he was "trying" to harm Kloden; I think he was just being stupid.


He maybe a stupid tactician (not sure I agree with that), but in terms of overall individual strategy he is a bit smarter then most seem to give him credit for. The Schlecks aren't the best Time Trialists and Lance and Kloden can get their time back, however, now Conti can ride a bit conservative (not risking a crash) and save energy for the Ventoux. That afterall is where he is going to see the most concerted attacks from the Schlecks and others. Give the man a bit of credit he does have the complete Grand Tour trophy collection.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

llama31 said:


> Actually, I agree. I don't believe he was trying harm Kloden of LA's chance at the podium. I think he just wasn't thinking. He's obviously a fierce competitor and I think he probably wanted to "bury" the Schlecks as you said and couldn't resist. My theory is that then JB yelled in his ear to stop. From what I saw, his accleration worked quite well in that he had gapped the Schlecks by a decent distance. They may have caught him on the descent, but maybe not.


After AC's last stupid move I would have expected JB to tell him to not think and instead to listen. It's going to be hard for Lance or Kloden to get real motivated to bust their ass for this guy early on Saturday. 

I predict that Friday will be more interesting for AC than almost anyone expects--especially him. It's hard to feel much loyalty for such a brash A-hole.


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## olr1 (Apr 2, 2005)

_It's hard to feel much loyalty for such a brash A-hole_.

Until you remember that he will be the highest paid cyclist in the world next year, and you might need a job...


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## loudog (Jul 22, 2008)

SwiftSolo said:


> After AC's last stupid move I would have expected JB to tell him to not think and instead to listen. It's going to be hard for Lance or Kloden to get real motivated to bust their ass for this guy early on Saturday.
> 
> I predict that Friday will be more interesting for AC than almost anyone expects--especially him. It's hard to feel much loyalty for such a brash A-hole.


a cogent reply. i agree that he isnt doing much to endear johann, lance or kloden. i think hes just pissed over all the attention paid to lance. hes leading the race and needs to get over it. he also needs to listen to brunyeel.


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## master2129 (Mar 30, 2007)

Contador proved that riding a bike and racing a bike are two separately distinct skill sets. His inexperience showed once again in this stage. First off, you have to listen to the Team Director. If he says not to attack, then you don't attack. Second, stage racing is a TEAM sport. Contador is really riding for himself. He could care less about his team mates. He's moving on to a new team next year. JB will be working for a new team. Next year Lance will be just another rival he will need to mark on every stage. 

More importantly, I was disappointed with his attitude. He muffed up today. Tactically, he played right into the hands of his enemies. He also lost the trust of his Team. Conti a Leader in my book? Not yet. He may be in Yellow right now. He may win the TDF this year. But to what expense?


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## somdoosh (Jul 21, 2008)

I agree with 55x11, it was a tactically sound decision on Contador's part that, achieved one of its secondary goals by allowing Klöden to get ahead of Wiggins. I guess it all depends on whether or not you think Wiggins or the Schleck brothers are, or were, a bigger threat to an Astana sweep.

To put it another way, if it comes down to a race at the final stage, Lance and Andreas have better chances against the Schlecks than against Wiggins.


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## M-theory (Jul 16, 2009)

Putting aside strategy for a moment, Contador's attack was simply the best 20 seconds of the entire stage. It was the seeming ease which made it so pretty. I'm a better person for having seen it...and I personally couldn't care less if Kloden couldn't keep up. That's Kloden's problem. I just wish AC had kept it up instead of slowing down for his domestique. 

It really shouldn't be AC's concern to get his teammate's on the podium. They're supposed to work for him. If he's feeing good , he should do as he pleases. I think it's despicable that JB is holding back his #1 rider so that his domestiques can get on the podium. 

Who, besides JB, really wants to see Astana 1,2,3 anyways? I I know I don't. If it should happen, I think it would be an embarrassment for this entire Tour. Forget Cavendish's 'stain', an Astana 1,2,3 would be a disgrace.


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## Sasquatch (Feb 3, 2004)

M-theory said:


> It really shouldn't be AC's concern to get his teammate's on the podium. They're supposed to work for him. If he's feeing good , he should do as he pleases. I think it's despicable that JB is holding back his #1 rider so that his domestiques can get on the podium.
> 
> .


amen to that


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Len J said:


> It was less than a 200 meter effort for god's sake.
> 
> Klodin and he talked about it, Klodin said go & I'll go with you. Klodin couldn't go. When Conti realized it he backed off. It was a momentary thing.
> 
> ...


Indeed. 

Too much reading into too small an 'attack.' Sure it was intended to be one, but it wasn't in the end. 

And, by then, you could see the reason why he wanted to was because the brothers were already cooked. He just didn't realized a slice of German roast was served in the form of Andreas Klöden as well unfortunately.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

M-theory said:


> Putting aside strategy for a moment, Contador's attack was simply the best 20 seconds of the entire stage. It was the seeming ease which made it so pretty. I'm a better person for having seen it...and I personally couldn't care less if Kloden couldn't keep up. That's Kloden's problem. I just wish AC had kept it up instead of slowing down for his domestique.
> 
> It really shouldn't be AC's concern to get his teammate's on the podium. They're supposed to work for him. If he's feeing good , he should do as he pleases. I think it's despicable that JB is holding back his #1 rider so that his domestiques can get on the podium.
> 
> Who, besides JB, really wants to see Astana 1,2,3 anyways? I I know I don't. If it should happen, I think it would be an embarrassment for this entire Tour. Forget Cavendish's 'stain', an Astana 1,2,3 would be a disgrace.




OK but it wouldn't have been so pretty if say...Cont flatted. "Gee. I sure wish I had Kloden with me. It'd sure be nice if we could switch wheels about now. Gee. Where'd those Schleck boys go anyway?" (crickets chirping).


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## SteveDave (Sep 20, 2007)

Since when is it the team leader's responsibility to tow his domestique around and make sure he gets an easy ride to the finish?? Has everyone forgotten that AC is THE leader, not just of Astana, but the race itself. If the year was 2002 (or any other from Lance's reign) and Armstrong was in Al's position and had Heras with him in Kloden's place, do you honestly think he would have let the gas off like AC did if Heras couldn't go with him? Not a chance in hell. He would have gone on with the attack and never once looked back. All effort goes to helping the leader. Period. No one ever wondered what would have happened if Lance got a flat during one of his solo attacks. Sometimes you take risks like that in order to win. Risk nothing, win nothing. Lets quit with the double standards here where if Lance does it, it's brilliant, but if AC does it, it's a bone-head move.


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## Swish (Jul 31, 2004)

NextTime said:


> It's really interesting to see the difference of opinion on the efficacy of Contador's attack. It's clear to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was counterproductive to the team (Kloden in particular), and that he personally gained nothing by it.
> 
> He knew full well that his attack may put Kloden into difficulty. At best, he was simply indifferent to his team's interests, at worst, well you know where I'm headed with that.
> 
> ...


It didn't work because 30 secs in after his jump he got yelled back by JB, unfortunately only the Schlecks and not Kloden could get back.

It is a sad day indeed when a team captain needs to worry about the position of his support riders.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

Sasquatch said:


> amen to that


 agreed.

Another point - dropping Kloden also forced Schlecks to drive harder, since they knew he was chasing them from behind. If all four made it to the top, Schlecks could have insisted that Conti and Klodi share work, or otherwise could have slow down and screw around for who wins the stage. I am sure that's not what Contador was counting on, but it helped - by saying to Schlecks - it's two of you against me, and I don't need to gain time on Kloden, I am fine if we all slow down and wait for him - he made sure he is a real passenger in their group.

So assuming Conti cares about his TdF win more than he cares about Kloden making a podium (as it should be), he did the right thing - gain as much time on others as you can while doing the least amount of work possible. Perfect.


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## omenbringer (May 15, 2006)

SteveDave said:


> Since when is it the team leader's responsibility to tow his domestique around and make sure he gets an easy ride to the finish?? Has everyone forgotten that AC is THE leader, not just of Astana, but the race itself. If the year was 2002 (or any other from Lance's reign) and Armstrong was in Al's position and had Heras with him in Kloden's place, do you honestly think he would have let the gas off like AC did if Heras couldn't go with him? Not a chance in hell. He would have gone on with the attack and never once looked back. All effort goes to helping the leader. Period. No one ever wondered what would have happened if Lance got a flat during one of his solo attacks. Sometimes you take risks like that in order to win. Risk nothing, win nothing. Lets quit with the double standards here where if Lance does it, it's brilliant, but if AC does it, it's a bone-head move.


So true!!!


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## pchrosto (Feb 12, 2008)

SteveDave said:


> Since when is it the team leader's responsibility to tow his domestique around and make sure he gets an easy ride to the finish?? Has everyone forgotten that AC is THE leader, not just of Astana, but the race itself. If the year was 2002 (or any other from Lance's reign) and Armstrong was in Al's position and had Heras with him in Kloden's place, do you honestly think he would have let the gas off like AC did if Heras couldn't go with him? Not a chance in hell. He would have gone on with the attack and never once looked back. All effort goes to helping the leader. Period. No one ever wondered what would have happened if Lance got a flat during one of his solo attacks. Sometimes you take risks like that in order to win. Risk nothing, win nothing. Lets quit with the double standards here where if Lance does it, it's brilliant, but if AC does it, it's a bone-head move.


amen brother. ride defensively if you're tired but if you feel you can get time on your rivals take every opportunity. and i think he was being too much of a nice guy stopping his attack for kloden. you can't worry about kloden when there's still 3 days left of racing. this whole idea of an astana sweep was a bruyneel ego trip.


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## pchrosto (Feb 12, 2008)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> OK but it wouldn't have been so pretty if say...Cont flatted. "Gee. I sure wish I had Kloden with me. It'd sure be nice if we could switch wheels about now. Gee. Where'd those Schleck boys go anyway?" (crickets chirping).


the neutral vehicle was right behind as was his team car. also i don't think the schleck bros would attack during a mechanical issue, that would definitely be considered bad form. 

kloden was pretty much useless to contador at the point of the climb.


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## Circlip (Jul 26, 2005)

pchrosto said:


> this whole idea of an astana sweep was a bruyneel ego trip.


Just watch next year on Team RadioShack. This ridiculous concept of trying to put multiple riders on the podium will be long gone when Lance is the top dog on his own team again. It`ll be back to his previous modus operandi where all the other riders burn themselves up in support of LA, and then are ordered to soft pedal it to the finish as soon as they can`t help him anymore, so that they don`t waste any more matches than necessary and are ready to do it all over again the next day.

First LA and JB bastardized the whole concept of what it means to be a professional bike rider, by blowing off the entire rest of the calendar (other than for training purposes) and disrespecting the importance of any other event. Then they bastardize the tried and true concept of what the purpose is of having a team in the sport of cycling, all because it best served LA`s purposes at this time.


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## nsw2516 (Jul 21, 2009)

Circlip said:


> Just watch next year on Team RadioShack. This ridiculous concept of trying to put multiple riders on the podium will be long gone when Lance is the top dog on his own team again. It`ll be back to his previous modus operandi where all the other riders burn themselves up in support of LA, and then are ordered to soft pedal it to the finish as soon as they can`t help him anymore, so that they don`t waste any more matches than necessary and are ready to do it all over again the next day.
> 
> First LA and JB bastardized the whole concept of what it means to be a professional bike rider, by blowing off the entire rest of the calendar (other than for training purposes) and disrespecting the importance of any other event. Then they bastardize the tried and true concept of what the purpose is of having a team in the sport of cycling, all because it best served LA`s purposes at this time.



Aaah, but what exactly does it mean to be a "professional bike rider"??...you seem to be forgetting the commercial implications behind it all....


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

*selective memory*



FondriestFan said:


> None of Armstrong's teammates were in a position for the podium. It was all for one.
> 
> Lance is having a hard time with not being the "one".


Lance worked for Levi in the Giro when Levi had a shot at the podium. 
I remember Lance doing all he could to allow Roberto Heras to bridge up to him and give him a shot at a stage win. Lance was up to road from Heras and Beloki, Heras attacked Beloki, Lance waited, but Roberto couldn't get rid of Beloki. 
I remember Lance telling Floyd to use his decending skills to take a stage win while he hung back with Jan Ullrich. 
I agree Lance is _disappointed_ with not being the one, but he's openly admitting he's not the one, working for the one, and not letting it affect his decisions on the road.


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