# Shimano RS10 Durability: Non-existent



## altaylor (Dec 19, 2008)

After putting a whole 800k on the RS10 that came stock on my bike (Spec. Tarmac Expert), I took the wheel off to clean it last night, and noted that the rim is cracked around the nipples at all bar one spoke hole on the drive side. There is no indication of any damage on the off-side.

Has this happened to anyone else? I'm intending to put in a warranty claim on the bugger - I went nearly 10000k on my previous pair of Easton Circuits until I snapped a spoke (waiting for them to be repaired too...) with nary a prob. They only had to be re-trued once.

FYI I'm about 200cm/100kg but I'd reason that if Specialized are going to spec wheels on a XXL frame that they bill as raceable, they should be speccing wheels that are suitable for the sort of person that's going to ride the bike and might conceivably produce a little bit of power.

I've been doing a bit of reading up (I've taken about fifteen years out of cycling geekdom) and it seems that this sort of low-spoke wheel don't have the best of reputations. So why are they being specced?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

altaylor said:


> RS10 that came stock on my bike (Spec. Tarmac Expert)........I'm about 200cm/100kg.
> I've been doing a bit of reading up (I've taken about fifteen years out of cycling geekdom) and it seems that this sort of low-spoke wheel don't have the best of reputations. So why are they being specced?


You don't wanna hear my real opinion on low cost low spoke wheels. You're 220lbs and do a fair amount of riding. In my opinion you need a good quality set of basic 32 spoke wheels. From  Bicycle Wheel Warehouse you can get a nice set of Open Pro/Ultegra wheels for $240 or a set with Dura-Ace hubs for $399. I've got both. A bargain for bombproof wheels.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*A question for the ages*



altaylor said:


> I've been doing a bit of reading up (I've taken about fifteen years out of cycling geekdom) and it seems that this sort of low-spoke wheel don't have the best of reputations. So why are they being specced?


Because we buy them? That's like asking why politicians are such #@$&*. Because we elect them. It's a regular rant of mine, but these wheels don't offer any significant performance advantage, cost a lot more than they should, and are expensive to maintain. Me, I'll stick with the 32 spoke hand builts. They are NOT holding me back!


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## gonococcus (Nov 21, 2008)

I'm really glad to have survived with just some abrasions.


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

There should be a sticky called "Steer Clear of Cheap Shimano Wheels". All the cheap models they've made just plain suck.


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## schimanski (Jan 11, 2002)

gonococcus said:


> I'm really glad to have survived with just some abrasions.


How did that happen?  

Only yesterday and I was considering RS20's. Thought they'd be a durable good enough looking basic wheelset for a little rougher riding that all the Mavic's I've owned seem not to be able put up with. Seeing the remains of that wheel and reading this thread maybe I'll look into some 28 and 32 spoked pairs instead.


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## gonococcus (Nov 21, 2008)

schimanski said:


> How did that happen?


Sounds crazy but I was just accelerating after a turn on straight road. No potholes, no road debris. 5 spokes pulled out of the rims, probably because of poor design:



















The flanges of the nipples are even thinner than those on conventional 32H wheels, and we're talking about a 16H wheel here where the tension through the spokes is higher.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

A local guy cracks his rear Shimano rim on a yearly basis. Shimano keeps giving him a new one, so he hasn't felt the urge to buy something else. I tell him there is ebay... and then get something that will hold up.


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

Brrrr...that gives me chills to see that...


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## Quixote (Aug 26, 2008)

Yikes! And here I thought the RS-10 would be a good replacement for my bombproof Bontrager Selects.


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

It's not even necessarily a problem with heavy rider/cheap Shimano wheels. I weigh all of 140 lbs and cracked the rear rim of my WH-R600's. These were "Ultegra level" wheels. Didn't bother me that much since I had 8000+ miles on them. This "issue" was supposedly addressed when they were eventually released as Ultegra wheels. But it looks like the ol' trickle down made it into their less expensive wheels, in a bad way.

I really like Dura Ace wheels (two of my three bikes have them) but would not recommend the lower models except for the most casual riding situations. I still use my cracked WH-R600 on my trainer.


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

altaylor said:


> FYI I'm about 200cm/100kg but I'd reason that if Specialized are going to spec wheels on a XXL frame that they bill as raceable, they should be speccing wheels that are suitable for the sort of person that's going to ride the bike and might conceivably produce a little bit of power.


I would probably be on the largest Tarmac myself and I weigh much less than 100kg. Height and weight don't necessarily correlate. If you are a big and powerful rider I think it is up to you to know what equipment is appropriate for your size and style. I don't think anyone would have suggested those wheels for you and its is pretty clear why not. I wouldn't pick them for myself at 170lbs for several reasons, but neither do I think that 60cm+ bikes should be automatically spec'd for 200lb. plus riders.

Crappy wheels, but caveat emptor.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

Another vote for 32 spoke wheels. 

32 spoke wheels with 3 cross pattern, brass nipples, strong rims, dura ace hubs, and you'll be problem free for years and years. 

Even for racing I've moved to the 32 spoke front and back 3 cross spoke patterns with dura ace hubs. The higher spoke counts while adding a little bit of weight allow you to hammer hard and corner really tight with great lateral stiffness. I've ridden wheels with 16 in the front and 18 in the back and man those felt like crap through the corners or during stand up sprints and of course all those snapped spokes and money flushed down the toilet from wheel damage.

I also recommend Bicycle Wheel Warehouse, they do a good job of building wheels at cheap prices. They give you the options you need for a good solid set of wheels.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

heathb said:


> I also recommend Bicycle Wheel Warehouse, they do a good job of building wheels at cheap prices. They give you the options you need for a good solid set of wheels.


I've got two of their wheelsets and two more in transit - one is for a lady vet road racer I mechanic for. Their prices are incredible. They put me out of the business of home wheelbuilding. No problem.

I hear Chris will be offering more options come the new year.


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## gonococcus (Nov 21, 2008)

An update regarding my catastrophic RS10 front wheel failure:
1. I've just gotten my bike back. Looks like both shifters are badly scratched, since I had hit the ground with handlebars turned fully to the right. As for my road rash, it's scabbing up nicely.

2. LBS was nice to lend me a loaner front wheel, since Shimano Singapore had been dragging their feet regarding the exchange and it wouldn't be ready any time soon.

3. Shimano Singapore had not replied to any of my emails.

4. I had called Shimano Singapore, got dumped from department to department twice, only to be told that the person in charge was not in the office. They had not called back since. You just gotta love Singaporean bureaucracy.

5. Rear wheel is now about 2mm untrue. 2 of the spokes are over-tensioned, which is peculiar.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

Mike T. said:


> I've got two of their wheelsets and two more in transit - one is for a lady vet road racer I mechanic for. Their prices are incredible. They put me out of the business of home wheelbuilding. No problem.
> 
> I hear Chris will be offering more options come the new year.


You're not kidding. It doesn't add up because you can't buy the parts for all these and he's building them pretty darn close to perfect.

He even tunes the DA hubs so they roll nice and fast straight out of the box. 

Try getting any of these things from a factory built wheel.....ain't gonna happen.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

One set of the "in transit" wheels arrived this afternoon. They're a road set (Blackset Race & BWW house brand hubs) with custom spoking - Revs on three sides and Comps on the DS rear. They weigh 1371 grams. A great set of wheels for a lady vet that I mechanic for.

http://www.bicyclewheelwarehouse.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=57

I haven't thrown them on the dial indicator wheel stand yet but they look dead true.

This lady is coming from a low-end Shimano wheelset with 20/24 spokes that weighs exactly the same as my OP/Ulteg/32h bulletproof wheels. Sheesh what a joke those low spoke Shimano wheels are. She's losing 479 grams or 17 ounces with this new BWW set..


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## gonococcus (Nov 21, 2008)

I'm still quite hesitant to go with 28H or 32H wheels because wind tunnel testing and empirical evidence have shown that the more aero your spokes and the less spokes you have, the less drag you face.

Hub friction is negligible as compared to aero drag, and weight only matters in situations where you accelerate and brake very often. On level road with no starts and stops, weight doesn't matter at all.

Just ordered a pair of Aksiums for about $280 SGD shipped, that's about 200 of your dollars. Can't really justify anything else with its amazing-for-the-price aero drag and rigidity.


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## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

gonococcus said:


> I'm still quite hesitant to go with 28H or 32H wheels because wind tunnel testing and empirical evidence have shown that the more aero your spokes and the less spokes you have, the less drag you face.
> 
> Hub friction is negligible as compared to aero drag, and weight only matters in situations where you accelerate and brake very often. On level road with no starts and stops, weight doesn't matter at all.
> 
> Just ordered a pair of Aksiums for about $280 SGD shipped, that's about 200 of your dollars. Can't really justify anything else with its amazing-for-the-price aero drag and rigidity.


Are you racing on these wheels or JRA?

If yer JRA what difference does it make?

If yer racing, Zipps et al are a MUCH better choice than anything you've mentioned so far.

Personally? I've seen guys racing on 35 spoke wheels 'cause they didn't have time to get that broken spoke fixed before a crit... Try THAT on a low spoke-count wheel! 

At 200-ish, I ride 32 hole wheelsets almost exclusively for training. At 220, I'd go 36 in the back, 32 in the front 'just to make sure.' For racing or fast training rides I'll ride my Ritchey Pros (20/28) 'cause they're a good mix of durability and aero. I'd rather have more durable than more aero any day 'cause to finish first, first you much finish!

M


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## schimanski (Jan 11, 2002)

gonococcus said:


> I'm still quite hesitant to go with 28H or 32H wheels because wind tunnel testing and empirical evidence have shown that the more aero your spokes and the less spokes you have, the less drag you face.


If you're worried about aerodynamics, you should be averaging 22mph on your base rides to get some of the windtunnel advantages and buy at least Cosmic Carbones or Zipps. They usually don't bother mentioning under 25mph speeds in the windtunnel tests because the benefits are so small. I've raced on Ksyriums and they don't hold me back, I dislike them for other reasons. Aerodynamically K's of course are total crap and I should fall right out the back of the bunch if that was how windtunnel test numbers transfer to real life.

28 or 32 it'll be for me. I'm all excited that I can pick and choose every component on my wheels. Never such excitement when buying factory wheels.


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## palo alton (Apr 8, 2003)

*shimano rs 10 wheels*

Shimano rs 10 wheels came stock on my 2009 Specialized comp bike. I've ridden 200 miles and 2 spokes have broken. Both broke within 4 minutes of each other while on the flats. I believe there is a design problem where the spoke exits the nipple(By the rim on the 2009 wheels.) The spoke hole is not drilled at an angle, causing the spoke to bend just above the nipple to reach the hub. Both of my spokes broke where the spoke enters the nipple. On a traditional hub the spoke shoulder rests against the hub flange creating a smooth and long bend to line up the spoke to the nipple in the rim. On this wheel all that stress and bending happens just above the nipple.

Anyways, I've been a bike mechanic for 12 years and I'm disappointed with my busted wheel. This is a new wheel design (nipples by the rim) and time will tell if it will be a problem.


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## PEKKA (Sep 4, 2011)

damn i was looking at RS 20, 10, 30
but i guess i ahve to make my already strained wallet to bleed all out to replace 4 years old alex wheels.
is fulcrum racing 7 as bad as rs 10,20,30?


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## Cpk (Aug 1, 2009)

PEKKA said:


> damn i was looking at RS 20, 10, 30
> but i guess i ahve to make my already strained wallet to bleed all out to replace 4 years old alex wheels.
> is fulcrum racing 7 as bad as rs 10,20,30?


try these: Wiggle | Campagnolo Scirocco Clincher Road Bike Wheelset Performance Wheels


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## giosblue (Aug 2, 2009)

Wheels,wheels, wheels. We all want a nice light set of good looking wheels. It's the same with cars, you've just got to have "the wheels"

I'm no different, I've tried factory built wheels, they look nice, I like my bikes to look nice, who doesn't?
I personally don't think they ride as good handbuilts. though.

Mike T has it spot . *Open Pro D/A or Open Pro Ultegra*, they don't look so good a big fat Carbon frames though. I don't ride fat framed Carbon bikes so it doesn't bother be.
I keep swapping and changing and I end up putting the OP/DA's back on.
Don't get me wrong I have never had a problem with factory wheels, I've only had Mavic Ksyriums and Shimano though. If I could only have one set of wheels it would be Open Pro rims Dura Ace hubs.


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

Yay!!! Another ancient unnecessary thread bump!


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