# Paris Carbon Problems



## gerard (Apr 8, 2006)

Got my Paris ready to roll i had a Dogma FP but was to harsh for me; carbon way smoother and lighter love it but for 1 thing the Carbon has gone a smoky white under the down tube I'm gutted of cause it will replaced under warranty .. Anyone else had the same problem let me no


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## foz (Sep 30, 2004)

hey gerard,

mine´s fine, but have you got any photos of the problem?

foz


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## triple b (Jan 11, 2006)

*Paris*

How old is your Paris?


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## gerard (Apr 8, 2006)

I Have Photos Of My Paris Problems Will Post Them Up Soon!!!! Bikes 2weeks Old In Anwser To Second Question...:


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## foz (Sep 30, 2004)

You're The Second Guy This Week That Types Every Word With A Capital Letter...

let's see the photos then.... I still have to take some of my new machine and put them on here. I've got a fair few miles on it now and like it more everytime I take it out. I actually took the camera on last sunday's club ride but hardly used it, and have no decent photos to put up yet. maybe this weekend...

foz


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## LJ1 (May 6, 2006)

I've seen other examples of failures in the paint of the Paris but would be interested to see your pictures...


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## gerard (Apr 8, 2006)

*Paris fault*

here is the of the Paris fault


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## foz (Sep 30, 2004)

Gerard - it's hard to see from that pic - looks like a white or grey smudge under (or in) the clear coat. or is it on top of the clearcoat? has it been like that from day 1, or has it appeared since you got the frame? you haven't had it long so have you maybe done something that could have caused it? have you cleaned it with anything other than soap and water? used any type of polish, wax, spray? have you got any more photos from other angles?

LJ1 - how does this compare to the other problems you've seen? do you have any photos to compare?

I've had my paris since the end of march, and it's fine so far, but i'm interested to know about these problems and possible causes / solutions, just in case!

foz


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## wasfast (Feb 3, 2004)

This appears to be either the decal lifting from the carbon or else the clearcoat coming loose from the decal. In either case, it's strictly cosmetic, not structural in any way.


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## LJ1 (May 6, 2006)

foz said:


> LJ1 - how does this compare to the other problems you've seen? do you have any photos to compare?
> 
> foz


Hey foz,

I've have two Paris Carbons and sold another one just a few months ago. No problems to report with mine but I was sent this picture.










Would seem in this case "gatorade" from one of the bottles has "attacked" the surface of the paint job. If it does this to paint, what the hell is it doing to your insides???


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## gerard (Apr 8, 2006)

*Better photo of Paris problem*

Foz,hope this show's more, the frame was perfect when I got it I did use a car wax but had no problems before on other carbon bikes. I reckon it's just bad luck I did notice the top lacker to be very soft ,buy the way I just read in the latest Aussy bike mag that Rochelle Gillmore had a problem with her frame it cracked along the top tube!!!! hope to hell it's not going to be problem with these frames??!!!!


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## ecardon (May 26, 2006)

*Instability Pinarello Paris FP carbon*

I have a problem with my Pinarello Paris FP Carbon
When I was on training camp in the Vogezen France, I had a unpleasant experience when going downhill.
When reaching the speed of 60 km/hr. while freewheeling the front of the bike starts to shake.
This get so worse that it is barley impossible to get the bike under control.
I know that the team Illes Balears (Valverde) don’t have this problem
Is there some one that has the same problem?

Please let me know,

Erik

[


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## gerard (Apr 8, 2006)

No don't have problem with the handling infact I love the way it rides it's the best handling bike I've owned!!!!!,just cosmetic glitch


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## LJ1 (May 6, 2006)

Erik, sometimes the bad handling of a bike can be the direct result of something the rider has done. Small mistakes going down hill at 60km/h tend to be magnified into the "shakes" you describe. Try relaxing more on the drops at these speeds and let the bike lead you rather than you lead it. Just a thought :idea:


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## foz (Sep 30, 2004)

do a search for 'shimmy'. every week someone asks about it, so there must be at least 17,563 posts on this forum alone about the subject...

FWIW, the paris carbon is the best handling bike i've ever had, and i've had a few diferent bikes over the years. hands down the best descending bike i have ever been on. 

foz


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## rodericg (Sep 26, 2006)

*Paris shimmy or death wobble*

g'day from Australia
yep, I had that shimmy thing happen to my Pinarello Paris too. Riding flat out down a long hill. Near the bottom, there was a thinning of the trees that shrouded the hill up to then. It was a real windy day and the wind gusted through the gap in the trees which hit my front wheel quite hard. That started the shimmy or death wobble as some call it. It's a reasonably universal issue on racing bikes and is to do with all kind of complex physics. It is not a fault of the bike at all. The cure is to, perversely, loosen up your grip on the bars, because when you hang on like death when it starts to wobble, you just make it worse (you actually amplify the effect). So, keep loose on the bars and beware of wind gusts! This could be a touch worse when you use wheels like mine which have wide bladed spokes (I have Kysrium ES wheels which to catch side winds a bit). I have to blog this story soon: http://homepage.mac.com/roderic.gill/thecyclingeconomist/index.html

bye for now


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## Aussie Carl (Jan 11, 2006)

I have experienced this phenomenon before as well, on a long descent that I have been down many times before without incident. I believe motorcyclists call it a 'tank slapper' where the handlebars bounce from side to side with sometimes violent consequences. This is why on larger motorbikes you may see dampers fitted to the handlebars.

Many moons ago I did my engineering thesis on measuring, analysing and damping vibrations in structures (yeah, sounds exciting doesn't it kids?). 

From my recollection the wobble is an excitation due to Incident Turbulence - three different forms of this include - Galloping, Flutter and Lock-in. 

Without going into too much detail galloping instability may occur when you tilt an aerodynamically symmetrical section in a steady air flow (such as your front wheel at high speed on your descent) at the 'angle of attack'. This develops another 'lift force' due to the cross wind component. In some circumstances the action of this lift force can lead to an instability condition, resulting in large amplitude cross-wind oscillations (galloping). This occurs on systems possessing very low stiffness such as on high tension wires. 

Flutter in this case isn't relevant as it applies to sections where the motion is caused by displacement and rotation such as on bridge decks (eg the Tacoma Narrows bridge or 'Galloping Gerty'). 

Lock-in is a term used to describe the phenomenon whereby the cross-wind displacement of a section causes an increase in wake energy which in turn increases the cross-wind response of the structure. This typically happens when the turbulent air flow is operating at the same natural harmonic frequency or critical speed of the section. 

This critical speed can cause rapid oscillatory divergence or excitation ie it 'locks in' and keeps amplifying itself until it can either jump out of this natural frequency or in the worst case scenario you come off your bike and undertake a close inspection of the asphalt.

Thus ends my lecture. Hope I didn't turn you all off Engineering!:mad2:


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## elviento (Mar 24, 2002)

*Engineering is fun.*

Not turned off at all here. Based on this lecture and many other posts, it seems a variety of things contribute to high speed shimmy and a variety of things can help alieviate it. It would seem unfair to simply say, Giant (or fill in any other bike brand) has shimmy while colnago (or fill in any other brand) doesn't. In my personal experience, having box section wheels seem to help but i could also be pure coincidence...


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## chirola (Mar 16, 2006)

Hi I just bough a Pinarello F3:14 and I want to know if somebody can give me some opinions, what u guys think.


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## bjs (Nov 1, 2006)

*Pinarello carbon crankset or Dura Ace?*

Hi,
I'm going to by a Pinarello Paris FP Carbon, and would like to ask, if someone could recommend, if I should bye the Pinarello tank fullcarbon crankset (in Denmark available for + 400 Euro), or the Dura Ace crankset, the bike is delivered with?
The black Pinarello tankset is aestetical the best solution - but is it functionally better? or is it just lighter? Would I feel the difference?

I'm just starting to ride on a bike of this class - but have obvious too many money 

Bjarne Schjølin/Denmark


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## bjs (Nov 1, 2006)

*Dura Ace 7801 SL or Mavic Ksyrium SL-2/ES wheelset*

Hi,
I'm going to by a Pinarello Paris FP Carbon, and would like to ask, if someone could recommend, if I should bye the Dura Ace 7801 SL or Mavic Ksyrium SL-2/ES wheelset?

I have heard, that Dura Ace 7801 SL should be better and cheaper to repair, and are running better - and others says, that Mavic Ksyrium SL-2 (or ES) are better?

In Denmark, the prices are allmost the same.
Bjs/Denmark


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## gerard (Apr 8, 2006)

Carbon cranks look cool but the Dura Ace are abit stiffer I've got Carbon Record ( Campy) and I should warn you they cracked where you bolt the pedal to lucky they were still under warrnty as for Wheels I find the Ksyriums catch the cross winds the best Wheels over all I have used are Campy Nuetrons and I've tried heaps of wheels but the camy"s are my choise .....


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## neil (Nov 18, 2006)

I have experienced EXACTLY what the AUSSIE is talking about while riding a motorcycle (at about 120mph). Asking a local motorcycle racer yeilded the very same answer you just gave. Aerodynamic turbulance caused the "speed wobble".

just trying to give more supporting info.


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## gerard (Apr 8, 2006)

Got shot of my Paris now own a LOOK 595 ultra it is by far better then any Pinarello I've owned had a Prince-SL ,Dogma,Dogma-FP and that Paris carbon the look is lighter and handles unreal so see the light you guys


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## jhamlin38 (Oct 29, 2005)

the new dura ace crankset and bottom brackets are sensational smooth, stiff, easy install. couldn't ask for anything more. ( except carbon spider, pantographing, )


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