# article: can your pedalling technique make you a more efficient rider?



## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

"Suffice to say there is no evidence that these methods produce any significant improvements in efficiency over the normal, simple method of simply concentrating on the ‘press-down’ phase of each pedal revolution(1). The best riders push down harder than the slower riders and therefore go faster – it’s as simple as that!

Rule #1: push the pedals and don’t over-analyse any special foot action"

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/cyc...chnique-make-you-a-more-efficient-rider-42241


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## nayr497 (Nov 8, 2008)

I'm glad to see/read this! I think you can get too uptight about stuff and overthink it. I'll concentrate on my pedal stroke sometimes, but most of the time I'm just out riding, not thinking too much.

One thing that I was able to fix with a little focus though was keeping my knees in - my left one would kick out on each stroke.

And if you watch the pros, everyone is a bit different. Some guys bob on their bike. Some guys weave side to side a bit, Some are stone still. 

Whatever works!


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Creakyknees said:


> "Suffice to say there is no evidence that these methods produce any significant improvements in efficiency over the normal, simple method of simply concentrating on the ‘press-down’ phase of each pedal revolution(1). The best riders push down harder than the slower riders and therefore go faster – it’s as simple as that!
> 
> Rule #1: push the pedals and don’t over-analyse any special foot action"
> 
> http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/cyc...chnique-make-you-a-more-efficient-rider-42241



I'll disagree (but will read the article later). I think Graeme Street has some good drills. 

I'm sure everyone is different and there are tradeoffs, as we are all pretty much built/wired differently, and learn differently.

But I believe, getting the upstroke in properly to unload the pedal is a good start. And then other drills can help more. 


Graeme Street even likes the non-circular rings and believes in them and was even selling them.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

bas said:


> I'll disagree (but will read the article later). I think Graeme Street has some good drills.
> 
> I'm sure everyone is different and there are tradeoffs, as we are all pretty much built/wired differently, and learn differently.
> 
> ...


I read his stuff too. Generally agree with his approach. I don't see a conflict w the conclusions of the article.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Not news, not definitive, still laden with opinion, and will not end the controversy, which is eternal. But interesting, I guess.

There is a secret pedaling technique which can make every rider more efficient, but Jacques Anquetil is dead and didn't reveal it to anyone.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

JCavilia said:


> Not news, not definitive, still laden with opinion, and will not end the controversy, which is eternal. But interesting, I guess.
> 
> There is a secret pedaling technique which can make every rider more efficient, but Jacques Anquetil is dead and didn't reveal it to anyone.


hmm..interesting.. I never saw a video of him riding. I will have to hit you tube.


http://www.cyclingforums.com/archive/index.php/t-46848.html

If you can get a hold of some of the old Tour de France videos or of some old classics videos you will see that even the top level pros have differences in pedalling styles. *Jacques Anquetil used a pedalling style that no one has used since that I know of, toes pointed down all the time. *While Merckx and other classics riders would pedal "squares" while aggressively attacking. And, in our own time, Lance Armstrong pedals very smoothly and at a very high cadence even when climbing.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

*Anquetil*

I kind of put that in as a joke, and an example of the wild theories that are often raised on this subject. I have seen the question discussed at length, and quite vociferously.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Secrets*



JCavilia said:


> There is a secret pedaling technique which can make every rider more efficient, but Jacques Anquetil is dead and didn't reveal it to anyone.


Apparently you've never heard of Noel Crowley. He has shown up on various forums over the years claiming to indeed being on the verge of mastering the Anquetil technique. The ultimate bike forum troll!


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

Kerry Irons said:


> Apparently you've never heard of Noel Crowley. He has shown up on various forums over the years claiming to indeed being on the verge of mastering the Anquetil technique. The ultimate bike forum troll!


He's still about  

When you use power as your reference for performance, you quickly learn that most of this "technique" stuff that's bandied about is just a ruse. 

1. Get a good position on the bike (including proper cleat placement for you)
2. Focus on getting the power down and don't "think" about pedaling.
3. It's all about the down stroke.

Of course if you are very new to cycling then it takes a little time to feel "smooth" but don't confuse smooth with thoughts of "pedaling in circles" or "scraping mud", or "pulling up" or thinking that one-legged pedaling will help etc etc. 

The focus should always be on developing a powerful down stroke with the neuromuscular coordination to turn those firing units on/off at the right times so that you can also do that at a high pedaling rate. That's what smoothness is.


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## bmxhacksaw (Mar 26, 2008)

In the words of those wise sages En Vogue - _Free you mind and the rest will follow_


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## Terex (Jan 3, 2005)

bas said:


> *Jacques Anquetil used a pedalling style that no one has used since that I know of, toes pointed down all the time. *.


Although hardly an Anquetil, a riding buddy of mine does pretty much the same thing. He rides a much bigger frame than would seem to fit him. He's a very fine rider and a knowledgeable mechanic. He's the only one I've ever observed riding that way.

I ride with my saddle just a little too low due to some knee problems developed when I've raised my saddle.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Kerry Irons said:


> Apparently you've never heard of Noel Crowley. He has shown up on various forums over the years claiming to indeed being on the verge of mastering the Anquetil technique. The ultimate bike forum troll!


I have read Noel's posts many times. That's what I was referring to, but I made it a bit too obscure. I needed the conspiratorial tone and raising of the eyebrows to convey the atmosphere, but I haven't figured out how to do those in a web posting.


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## oroy38 (Apr 27, 2010)

nayr497 said:


> One thing that I was able to fix with a little focus though was keeping my knees in - my left one would kick out on each stroke.


There's an interesting article on velonews.com that addresses pelvic asymmetry and how it affects the tracking of knees throughout the pedal stroke. The gist of it is that because of the way our bodies are built, right knees generally track inwards, while left knees track slightly outwards.

If your knee was tracking more than "slightly" outwards, I would guess it was more an issue of pedal spindle length, in which case seeing a fitter and having them analyze your stroke would be beneficial, especially since speedplay pedals come in different spindle lengths specifically for this purpose.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Or not*



bas said:


> But I believe, getting the upstroke in properly to unload the pedal is a good start.


Sure, but the problem you have there is that lots of studies on professional riders show that they DON'T unload the pedals on the upstroke. Just saying.


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## steelbikerider (Feb 7, 2005)

Long ago Velonews had an article about an Anquetil technique that involved resting each alternate legs every tenth pedalstroke.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

steelbikerider said:


> Long ago Velonews had an article about an Anquetil technique that involved resting each alternate legs every tenth pedalstroke.


I have a video tape about Anquetil in which his masseur says that unlike other rider's backs when laying face down, Anquetil's back had "no downward curve, but was completely flat." The masseur then elevates his observation into the claim that this flat back at the face-down position on the massage table was "the real secret behind Anquetil's power." Hey—no more bizarre than resting one's legs on a numerical pattern.


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## krishna (Jan 20, 2002)

Kerry Irons said:


> Sure, but the problem you have there is that lots of studies on professional riders show that they DON'T unload the pedals on the upstroke. Just saying.


great - another belief of mine shattered... so focusing on pulling up has no impact even for hills?

-K


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## moostapha (Oct 1, 2009)

The thing about all of these studies you have to realize is that they're kind of BS. That being said, I'm a university student…so I abused my student status and actually read some of the papers cited in the OP's article (yes, I can read that data). 

They're interesting. And the OP's article seems about right on the analysis…for a journalist. 

But, they're kind of "duh" too. 

The whole "pull through the bottom," "throw your knee over the bar," stuff just sounded too much like MBA/Marketing stuff to me. I mean, I did it. I still kinda do, though not to the extremes of a lot of people…if I think enough about moving my ankle like that, I forget to actually pay attention to where I'm going or, you know, breathe. 

On the other hand, BS has it's place. If something you're doing makes you feel faster and you have data to show that it's at least not harmful…it'll probably make you faster if for no other reason than raising your pain threshold and thinking that your technique works better than someone else's. 

I'm convinced that's the reason for ultra-light bottle cages…they don't affect center of gravity, they don't affect any meaningful moment of inertia, and 40g or so is insignificant compared to a 70kg (aka, 70,000g, aka 154 lbs) rider. The second (full) bottle weighs over 10 times that amount. Yet, people swear by them and spend way too much money on them (IMHO). 

I'm thankful for this article and reading the studies, though. I have problems climbing ('cuz i'm "fat" for a cyclist at 6', 190lbs…also because I'm still relatively new) and it makes me feel a lot better when my technique reverts to "press…press…press" 'cuz i'm concentrating on controlling my asthma. It also makes me feel better, 'cuz I feel like i'm the only borderline grinder left in the world…I tend not to use my small ring unless I'm in trouble going up a hill or am worried about cross-chaining. Both of those little psychological tricks will help in group rides and random exercise. 



(Full disclosure: I'm a relatively new cyclist who couldn't keep up with a lot of you…but I can do math and I have a degree in Psychology, so some of this sh*te just makes sense to me).


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

Anecdote for what it's worth:

I have been a competitive cyclist for many years. Am not a young bloke anymore so a lot of my racing is local cat 3/2 level and masters age championships.

In 2007 I made podium at masters nationals (points race) along with two guys that have world masters championships to their name. I have used power meters for many years and so have an excellent record of my individual capabilities over time.

2 weeks after that 2007 result I had training accident, resulted in below knee amputation.

Now I ride with prosthetic. I have no lower leg. I can't 'scrape mud". I can't push over top, or pull across the bottom, I can't "pull up". At least not on that side.

I got back to riding, then racing. In last 6 months I've done 20-min TT intervals at my all time personal best power. 3 months ago i set my all time best 2-hour race power. And I mean best power pre- and post- amputation.

All I am able to do is push harder and faster. But I am also a smooth pedaller.


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## DirtTurtle (Dec 21, 2007)

Get your postitioning fairly right, probably a combination of common trends but also ensuring that position is comfortable for your own riding.

After that develop you own style it has to be natural. Having said that, smoothness of pedalling does help alot and comes with time.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Hill methods*



krishna said:


> great - another belief of mine shattered... so focusing on pulling up has no impact even for hills?


At the low cadence on hills, it is possible to do this (scrape mud, lift on the upstroke). It does allow you to momentarily deliver more power, but your muscles are just not designed to do it and you can't do it for long. It also is a way to give your "regular" muscles a momentary break. In practice, a pedaling style where you have to concentrate to do it will not result in improved performance. A smooth pedaling style, which comes from a relaxed upper body and good position on the bike, will improve your energy "economy" because you won't be wasting effort thrashing the bike around, jerking on the bars, etc.


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## 3v1lD4v3 (May 11, 2009)

Kerry Irons said:


> At the low cadence on hills, it is possible to do this (scrape mud, lift on the upstroke). It does allow you to momentarily deliver more power, but your muscles are just not designed to do it and you can't do it for long. It also is a way to give your "regular" muscles a momentary break. In practice, a pedaling style where you have to concentrate to do it will not result in improved performance. A smooth pedaling style, which comes from a relaxed upper body and good position on the bike, will improve your energy "economy" because you won't be wasting effort thrashing the bike around, jerking on the bars, etc.


I don't race, but when I "sprint", I'll lift the off leg as additional power. It helps maintain the spin and gets me going faster, quicker. It's esp. helpful when I've forgotten to downshift at the light.


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## dnc (Feb 8, 2003)

Alex_Simmons/RST said:


> He's still about



Correct Alex, I have now perfected the technique and it is ready for demonstration with detailed explanation. His masseur got it wrong, Anquetil's pedalling strengthened his lower back and not only does it strengthen lower backs it also eliminates even the worst lower back pain when riding the bike. His mysterious additional pedal power came from knowing how to apply maximal (3 o' c equivalent) torque to the crank as it passed through the 12 o'c area of the pedalling circle. Using this special semi circular (11 to 5 o' c) style of pedalling you can apply constant max crank torque from 11 to 4 o' c without changing shoe position on pedal.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Ruh roh*



dnc said:


> Correct Alex, I have now perfected the technique and it is ready for demonstration with detailed explanation. His masseur got it wrong, Anquetil's pedalling strengthened his lower back and not only does it strengthen lower backs it also eliminates even the worst lower back pain when riding the bike. His mysterious additional pedal power came from knowing how to apply maximal (3 o' c equivalent) torque to the crank as it passed through the 12 o'c area of the pedalling circle. Using this special semi circular (11 to 5 o' c) style of pedalling you can apply constant max crank torque from 11 to 4 o' c without changing shoe position on pedal.


Pull on your boots. The sheit is getting deep.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Kerry Irons said:


> Pull on your boots. The sheit is getting deep.


Indeed. I'm amazed at his steadfastness in purveying this stuff.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Recognized*



wim said:


> Indeed. I'm amazed at his steadfastness in purveying this stuff.


You notice that he is self-aware enough to not use his name so that he doesn't get called out immediately. His nonsense is so nonsensical however that you can really pick him out of a crowd in a hurry. It seems like it's been a decade or more since he first announced that he was going to capture this breakthrough pedaling technique and yet he has never produced a shred of evidence (other than his bogus claims) that there is any improvement that results. Heck, I can claim here and now that I have found an ancient Inca pedaling style that has added 2 mph to my average speed, and none of you can disprove it!


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Kerry Irons said:


> It seems like it's been a decade or more since he first announced that he was going to capture this breakthrough pedaling technique and yet he has never produced a shred of evidence (other than his bogus claims) that there is any improvement that results.


Yes, I think Noel graced us with his first internet appearance about 10 years ago.

But you know, it wasn't that long ago when similar stuff was pronounced by coaches and fervently believed by their charges. In 1958, I was a promising (promise never fulfilled) junior on a German cycling team and was told in all seriousness that to go fast, you need to eat the meat of animals that run fast ("eat horse meat once a week"); that to _not_ drink was the way to win a race ("dryest is fastest"); and that to flagellate yoursef with birch-tree switches helped recovery after a race ("promotes waste-product removal from the blood.") So there's an honorable tradition to this stuff.


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## dnc (Feb 8, 2003)

wim said:


> Indeed. I'm amazed at his steadfastness in purveying this stuff.


 You too would be steadfast if you had sufficient commonsense to realize the distinct advantage a freely available possible 40% power increase can give in time trials. But for triathletes Kerry and his fellow cyclists would still be using unaerodynamic shoulder width hand/arm positions in time trials as they proudly clung to their traditional belief and nonsense which stated a narrow hand position restricted breathing.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

dnc said:


> You too would be steadfast if you had sufficient commonsense to realize the distinct advantage a freely available possible 40% power increase can give in time trials.


A 40% power increase by modifying pedal force vectors is just bizarre, sorry. Your theory may actually have some merit at its core. But with claims like these, you consistently and with deadly accuracy shoot it down yourself.


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## dnc (Feb 8, 2003)

wim said:


> A 40% power increase by modifying pedal force vectors is just bizarre, sorry. Your theory may actually have some merit at its core. But with claims like these, you consistently and with deadly accuracy shoot it down yourself.



That's a 20% power increase from each leg and it's all about knowing how to take full advantage of that area between 11 and 1 o'c and maximizing tangential effect between 1 and 2. Alex supplies the proof that cyclists' lower leg and foot muscles are lying idle when applying effective crank torque, he can apply the same power now as he did before his accident. My power increase is based on the important fact that pressing down on the sole of shoe is not the only way to apply maximal hip/thigh generated power to the pedal and the other way is actually more powerful as maximal crank torque is applied in a forward direction by making maximal use of the lower leg and foot muscles. My special technique simply merges both methods for the smoothest possible application of almost constant max chain drive power to the chainwheel.The only weakness is between 4 and 5 where normal tangential effect applies, Kerry says he could claim a 2 or 3 mph speed increase from his INCA style, but only if he could explain where and how in the pedalling circle that extra power for this increase was generated and applied would I accept his claim as deserving consideration. Otherwise like F Day's expensive PC claim, it would have to be dismissed as impossible.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

dnc said:


> That's a 20% power increase from each leg


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## pedalruns (Dec 18, 2002)

Alex_Simmons/RST said:


> I got back to riding, then racing. In last 6 months I've done 20-min TT intervals at my all time personal best power. 3 months ago i set my all time best 2-hour race power. And I mean best power pre- and post- amputation.
> 
> All I am able to do is push harder and faster. But I am also a smooth pedaller.



Wow, congrats on this great accomplishment!


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## aussiebullet (Sep 26, 2005)

dnc said:


> You too would be steadfast if you had sufficient commonsense to realize the distinct advantage a freely available possible 40% power increase can give in time trials. But for triathletes Kerry and his fellow cyclists would still be using unaerodynamic shoulder width hand/arm positions in time trials as they proudly clung to their traditional belief and nonsense which stated a narrow hand position restricted breathing.


LMFAO!
A 40% power increase would put me above the very best cyclists in the world at pretty much every disipline both road and track 

I'd be so fast it would be a waste of time even turning up


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## dnc (Feb 8, 2003)

aussiebullet said:


> LMFAO!
> A 40% power increase would put me above the very best cyclists in the world at pretty much every disipline both road and track



No it would not, this special technique is for only the ideal time trial courses where uninterrupted constant high gear max power output can be used, such as that TT course in India a few days ago. For road race continuous braking and accelerating circular is best and for sprinting mashing works best.


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## oroy38 (Apr 27, 2010)

I got a 400% power increase after I installed motors in my bike.

Fabian Cancellara ain't got ****.


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## aussiebullet (Sep 26, 2005)

dnc said:


> No it would not, this special technique is for only the ideal time trial courses where uninterrupted constant high gear max power output can be used, such as that TT course in India a few days ago. For road race continuous braking and accelerating circular is best and for sprinting mashing works best.


What a crock of S#IT!

NO WAY is any body going to ride at 40% above their FTP just because of the course or the gear their using.
I'm now LMFAO 40% louder


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Hoo hah!*



dnc said:


> That's a 20% power increase from each leg and it's all about knowing how to take full advantage of that area between 11 and 1 o'c and maximizing tangential effect between 1 and 2. Alex supplies the proof that cyclists' lower leg and foot muscles are lying idle when applying effective crank torque, he can apply the same power now as he did before his accident. My power increase is based on the important fact that pressing down on the sole of shoe is not the only way to apply maximal hip/thigh generated power to the pedal and the other way is actually more powerful as maximal crank torque is applied in a forward direction by making maximal use of the lower leg and foot muscles. My special technique simply merges both methods for the smoothest possible application of almost constant max chain drive power to the chainwheel.The only weakness is between 4 and 5 where normal tangential effect applies, Kerry says he could claim a 2 or 3 mph speed increase from his INCA style, but only if he could explain where and how in the pedalling circle that extra power for this increase was generated and applied would I accept his claim as deserving consideration. Otherwise like F Day's expensive PC claim, it would have to be dismissed as impossible.


Well Noel, you never cease to amaze me. A 3 mph speed increase (40% more power at 25 mph/ 40 km/hr speed). What a total crock of sheit. You were claiming similar nonsense years ago and have never produce one iota of evidence to support these totally outlandish claims. If what you are saying were true, you would have been able to publish a MAJOR scientific paper by now. Instead you conceal your name and haunt the Internet with unfiltered BS statements.

There's an old saying in science: extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. You offer only the former. Get a grip, man, get a grip. That, or get back on your meds.


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## dnc (Feb 8, 2003)

Kerry Irons said:


> Well Noel, you never cease to amaze me. A 3 mph speed increase (40% more power at 25 mph/ 40 km/hr speed). What a total crock of sheit. You were claiming similar nonsense years ago and have never produce one iota of evidence to support these totally outlandish claims. If what you are saying were true, you would have been able to publish a MAJOR scientific paper by now. Instead you conceal your name and haunt the Internet with unfiltered BS statements.
> 
> There's an old saying in science: extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. You offer only the former. Get a grip, man, get a grip. That, or get back on your meds.


 Ever since the racing bike was invented cycling "experts" have believed the dead spot area is a permanent fixture in the pedal stroke, leading some engineers to waste years of research time as they search for equipment that could compensate in some small way for the inability to apply effective crank torque in this area, only for you and others to have a laugh at their invention. Leaving the amount of possible power increase aside, that has yet to be researched because I am not interested in that information, my simple technique makes it possible for any rider to apply the same maximal torque to the crank through that entire area between 11 and 4 o'c as natural pedallers apply between 2 and 4 o'c. The important point here is not the amount of power increase but the fact that maximal torque can be applied through the dead spot area using standard 'fifties sixties' bike equipment. No extraordinary proof or scientific paper is required, only a few reliable witnesses and an accurate force/vector powermeter which should soon be available.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Deja vu*



dnc said:


> Ever since the racing bike was invented cycling "experts" have believed the dead spot area is a permanent fixture in the pedal stroke, leading some engineers to waste years of research time as they search for equipment that could compensate in some small way for the inability to apply effective crank torque in this area, only for you and others to have a laugh at their invention. Leaving the amount of possible power increase aside, that has yet to be researched because I am not interested in that information, my simple technique makes it possible for any rider to apply the same maximal torque to the crank through that entire area between 11 and 4 o'c as natural pedallers apply between 2 and 4 o'c. The important point here is not the amount of power increase but the fact that maximal torque can be applied through the dead spot area using standard 'fifties sixties' bike equipment. No extraordinary proof or scientific paper is required, only a few reliable witnesses and an accurate force/vector powermeter which should soon be available.


In other words, just as for the past 10 years or so, you have absolutely no data to support your claims, but you will any day now. What a yuck! As before, be sure to keep us posted as your breakthrough pedaling style conquers the world of flat time trials. After all, these pros have only been at it for 100 years and they and their coaches can't possibly have learned as much as you know. 

I think the oats you are feeding us have already been through the horse.


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## Zipp0 (Aug 19, 2008)

steelbikerider said:


> Long ago Velonews had an article about an Anquetil technique that involved resting each alternate legs every tenth pedalstroke.


Eddie B. endorses this idea in this book that I recently picked up:

http://www.amazon.com/Bicycle-Road-Racing-Complete-Competition/dp/0941950077

He says it is good for TT and TTT. Basically, every 5th pedal stroke you bring your left foot over the top without applying downward force to the pedals, then 5 strokes later, the right leg gets a rest. You train yourself to alternate. The theory is that each leg gets a rest 20% of the time, and that rest results in an overall increase in speed. He claims that quite a few great time trialists used this technique over the years.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

I am starting to think that simply unweighting the upstroke leg may falsely 'feel' like pulling upward, especially when fatigued or at higher powers ... anyone have additonal info on this?

Recently started riding with a Powertap wheel, and just starting to "experiment" while doing intervals on the trainer ... but no definite conclusions yet.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

EDIT - wrong thread, sorry for the necromancy.


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## serious (May 2, 2006)

Local Hero said:


> EDIT - wrong thread, sorry for the necromancy.


But it is still entertaining.


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## steelbikerider (Feb 7, 2005)

VN had an article many years ago which said the Anquetil would rest 1 leg basically letting it coast thru the motion once every 10 pedal strokes during a TT.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

serious said:


> But it is still entertaining.


I was reading the other thread and googled some things. 

Google lead me back to the 2010 thread. 

And I tried to respond to the other one. But posted in the wrong window. My internetting was off. 



What you see as entertaining is embarrasing!


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