# Peter Sagan Thread



## BacDoc

This rider deserves his own thread! Think he is riding well, giving 100% and going for it whenever he can. Guy never complains, only has positive things to say about fans and other riders.

Yesterday's stage saw him bumping shoulders and jockeying for position and today's stage had him going balls out on the descent to try for the win.

I love this kind of attitude - after 2nd place today he says "I'm really glad because I was going for 2nd place! No, I'm joking!" Then he says he was really going for the win, "Even if it meant dying". Watching the descent, you gotta agree. When asked why he was riding so aggressively he says "Because I have big balls!"

Check out the pic in this link as he crosses the finish line, calves, quads and arms, the guy is the strongest fittest rider in the peloton IMO. Really adds some panache to any race he is in.

Sagan second again after hair-raising descent - VeloNews.com


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## robt57

I liked how he kicked the MC that got too close. Although the team mechanic got the GM relegated for the day for the water bottle toss. Which was a nice drop pitch right over the plate too! 


I fond the most amazing thing is that he is and gets talked about like a seasoned pro.. hard to keep in mind he is still young enough to wear a white jersey... But appears to like the green one better.


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## PBL450

He's a ton of fun to watch race! And a smile for everyone! At 6'0" and 163lbs he's done for the Alps. But he is a great rider to root for! I've been doing a lot of that. He has a kind of charming and charismatic personality for such a young guy and I think it's because he just plain loves riding his bike!


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## Skewer

I have a man crush on Sagan.


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## JCavilia

How about that descent chase today? That was some wild stuff.


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## atpjunkie

I'm definitely a fan. He's been the only decent drama the tour has had. Frigging going for the win every GD Day. I hope he wins on the Champs, because that is all he has a shot at at this juncture. Owns the Green Jersey, races hard day after day. Hope he gets a classic soon.


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## brianmcg

I'm a big fan. And my wife likes watching him, even though she could care less about bike racing. At least that was until she heard him talk. She said he sounds like a muppet. LOL.


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## robt57

brianmcg said:


> I'm a big fan. And my wife likes watching him, even though she could care less about bike racing. At least that was until she heard him talk. She said he sounds like a muppet. LOL.


Queue her up a Cadel Evans Interview.


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## eugenetsang

Sagan is a breath of fresh air for the sport. His quirky and loose personality is fun to watch during pre-race/post race interviews. Didn't he grab the podium girl's behind one year??! Not saying it was right, but shoot... It was definitely a memorable moment haha (I think he was reprimanded by the officials for his lack of better judgment). He tells it as it is... Like today, he told the world that he has "big balls!". 

Who says that!!?!? Peter Sagan! thats who! haha.


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## Horze

It's still difficult to accept how clumsy PS looks on the bike.

PS. This is not a pun.


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## BacDoc

Horze said:


> It's still difficult to accept how clumsy PS looks on the bike.
> 
> PS. This is not a pun.


Sagan looks clumsy on a bike? Think you got your riders mixed up!

Watching that descent to the finish - incredible bike handling! 

Think Quintana Froome or Tommy Voekler look better? I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder!


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## BacDoc

I only wish I could look this clumsy


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## looigi

BacDoc said:


> I only wish I could look this clumsy


While the photo shows well developed and defined musculature, whether he is clumsy or not cannot be inferred from the pic. That said, I believe he has amply demonstrated his skill and grace on the bike in many other situations.


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## ibericb

He surely doesn't look clumsy on a bike to me. To me he looks powerful, confident, in control, and extremely skilled. If that's clumsy, I would welcome being called such.


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## love4himies

JCavilia said:


> How about that descent chase today? That was some wild stuff.


I was holding my breath the whole way down and hoping his mom wasn't watching it. What a great cyclist who I have more respect for than the yellow jersey wearer. Sucks he can't seem to get a stage win, maybe fate is holding out for the win in Paris.


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## love4himies

eugenetsang said:


> Sagan is a breath of fresh air for the sport. His quirky and loose personality is fun to watch during pre-race/post race interviews. Didn't he grab the podium girl's behind one year??! Not saying it was right, but shoot... It was definitely a memorable moment haha (I think he was reprimanded by the officials for his lack of better judgment). He tells it as it is... Like today, he told the world that he has "big balls!".
> 
> Who says that!!?!? Peter Sagan! thats who! haha.


Yes he did and some people made way too much out of it (the only one that should have would be the young lady). He was a very young European (20 or 21???).


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## Oxy

Skewer said:


> I have a man crush on Sagan.


thanks for being the first to admit how we all feel.


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## love4himies

Horze said:


> It's still difficult to accept how clumsy PS looks on the bike.
> 
> PS. This is not a pun.


Clumsy???? not sure how you view him as clumsy on the bike.


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## Tig

Horze said:


> It's still difficult to accept how clumsy PS looks on the bike.
> 
> PS. This is not a pun.


Prepare to eat those words! 

How many pro's could recover like this after losing the front wheel?














Slide for the photographers


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## tlg

He's definitely a breath of fresh air. I don't think at this point it really matters if he wins a stage. He's in the mix every day and the most talked about rider. He's an advertisers dream. Oleg should be loving him right now and giving him a bonus.
Then on top of all that, he's playing domestique and fetching water bottles for team mates.

Oh... and definitely clumsy on a bike.


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## cgyacht

As a newb to riding and a first time watcher of the Tour all the way through, I have to say that this guy Peter Sagan is hands down the most fun thing to watch so far. I think this is great and it really adds some excitement and draws people into watching who in other circumstances could care less.

My wife has tolerated me coming home every night and sitting through the entire race on TIVO. However over the past days even she is waiting on the edge of her seat and cheering for him to take a win.

I am looking forward to hopefully watching some epic climbing and attacks in the Alps. And We will be rooting for Sagan to take the win in Paris!


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## phoehn9111

Oleg Tinkov better keep his mouth shut. If this isn't
a good enough effort for him, I don't know what would
suffice. Forget about stage wins, there is a body of work
here that is awe inspiring. Chutzpa, verve, grit, style
etc, etc, what we riders love. And God Almighty,
watching his pedalling style, the brutal force and
the way he ankles through. Definitely not a typical
pro racer.


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## 32and3cross

love4himies said:


> Yes he did and some people made way too much out of it (the only one that should have would be the young lady). He was a very young European (20 or 21???).


Nope, he got what he deserved. And as far as laying off on the woman involved, she could not really speak out during the incident and leaving her on her own afterward is one of the reasons sexism is still going strong. Which is why lots of people spoke up and made it clear that that kind of **** is not acceptable.


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## Skewer

He actually needs to do bench presses to balance out the rest of his muscle defintion and tan that area. When he has his jersey zipped down to get ventilation, he's got a bird chest like a little boy and it's pale as a ghost.

There's only one rider that could come in hot in a tight turn inside line and make it stick like Thomas - Barguil crash scene, and that is Sagan, just call him The Doctor, the Valentino Rossi of road biking.


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## robdamanii

I must be one of the few that finds him to be an ass. Entertaining to watch in terms of his aggressive racing, but I can't stand his antics otherwise. Enough with the stupid wheelies and tricks. Go win a stage and stop acting like a child.


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## Horze

PS looks clumsy certainly going uphill and on the flats.
Most people look sprightly going downhill as it is.


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## CBus660R

32and3cross said:


> Nope, he got what he deserved. And as far as laying off on the woman involved, she could not really speak out during the incident and leaving her on her own afterward is one of the reasons sexism is still going strong. Which is why lots of people spoke up and made it clear that that kind of **** is not acceptable.


Lighten up Francis. It's not like he grabbed some random woman's butt while walking down the street or was in a business environment where he was harassing a co-worker. If we really want to talk about the whole sexism issue, then the promoters need to cut out the podium girls, and the women who trade their looks for $$$ by taking the job of podium girls need to stop it too. If you want to be offended, be offended that there were trophy girls at the Women's Soccer World Cup. That is a WTF moment right there!


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## Corey213

BacDoc said:


> I only wish I could look this clumsy


Peter explaining the chest pound in here. Makes me enjoy how much fun they are having. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMSBhxhjpFU


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## Notvintage

I must be in the minority, as I think he's a clown.


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## Tig

Wow there sure are a lot of A.R.P.'s in here.
Time to pass around a big mug of Lighten The EFF Up Coffee...


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## 32and3cross

CBus660R said:


> Lighten up Francis. It's not like he grabbed some random woman's butt while walking down the street or was in a business environment where he was harassing a co-worker. If we really want to talk about the whole sexism issue, then the promoters need to cut out the podium girls, and the women who trade their looks for $$$ by taking the job of podium girls need to stop it too. If you want to be offended, be offended that there were trophy girls at the Women's Soccer World Cup. That is a WTF moment right there!


I am offended by trophy girls and umbrella girls etc.

And it was harassment in a "business environment where he was harassing a co-worker" She worked for the race. Her job was to show VIPs around and do podium presentations, she was not there a a sexual object to grabbed by anyone who wanted too. She also did not have the recourse to turn around a slap him (even tho he deserved it).

Your "lighten up" attitude is why sexism continues on. Are racial jokes ok with you as well because their just jokes right?


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## CBus660R

32and3cross said:


> I am offended by trophy girls and umbrella girls etc.
> 
> And it was harassment in a "business environment where he was harassing a co-worker" She worked for the race. Her job was to show VIPs around and do podium presentations, she was not there a a sexual object to grabbed by anyone who wanted too. She also did not have the recourse to turn around a slap him (even tho he deserved it).
> 
> Your "lighten up" attitude is why sexism continues on. Are racial jokes ok with you as well because their just jokes right?


No point in going further. Your opinion is made up, as is mine. 

BTW, with regards to race jokes. I have a good friend who is of a different race and we'll trade em back and forth and get a good laugh out of it.

I find that it's important to not be so serious 100% of the time. Emotional stress has a big negative affect on one's health.


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## eugenetsang

phoehn9111 said:


> Oleg Tinkov better keep his mouth shut. If this isn't
> a good enough effort for him, I don't know what would
> suffice....


At first, I understand why Tinkov was all PO'd of Sagan. Paying him that FAT check.... just to finish in 2nd place... Its as if the Yankees boss paying all the big name players to lose in the post season. Simply unacceptable in professional sports.

But I realized that all of Sagan's previous 2nd place finishes, it looks like as if he simply ran out of gas. Maybe it was his own doing... Always finishing 1/2 a wheel to full wheel short. Or he starts his sprint to the finish a few seconds too late. And Greipel looks strong. Dominated the last 1000 feet and took all wins. 

But yesterday's 2nd place finish wasn't really his fault. Or maybe it was. Maybe Sagan's initial attack pissed off his opponents.. Or maybe they were scared and knew that if Grepeil isn't there to contend for the win that day, Sagan would take home his first stage win of the TdF. 

Sagan didn't have any of his teammates for his lead out. He was left out to dry and had to convince his opponents to team up with him so they can chase down Plaza. But the chase group wasn't having it... So Sagan had to do all the work solo..

Had Sagan known that the chase group was going to leave him out to dry.... I'm sure Sagan would had tried to drop the group earlier and attempted to cut off some time from Plaza... But I'm sure Sagan was assuming the chase group would be willing to help out... Instead, Sagan had to do more talking than actually chasing down the leader... Allowing Plaza to pull away...

At the end... Sagan finished in 2nd, 30 secs behind Plaza. Doing work all by himself! That's amazing if you ask me. I hope Tinkov can appreciate what Sagan can do (solo). If his lead out was there, the win was definitely his!


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## 32and3cross

CBus660R said:


> No point in going further. Your opinion is made up, as is mine.
> 
> BTW, with regards to race jokes. I have a good friend who is of a different race and we'll trade em back and forth and get a good laugh out of it.
> 
> I find that it's important to not be so serious 100% of the time. Emotional stress has a big negative affect on one's health.


Not point in going further,... and yet you keep right on going.

The difference in you and your friend is you have an understanding that works for you great. 

Thats not what the case was with Sagan, he sexually harassed someone at work. There was no understanding no permission and it was unacceptable.

This doesn't emotionally stress me out.


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## ibericb

If Tinkoff is PO'ed, then he needs to direct his team to support Sagan, which they haven't yet done, much at all. 

Barring a catastrophe or unforeseen shakeup. Sagan will give him the green jersey this TdF, which goes to the overall points leader, the second most coveted ranking after overall time (yellow). What's Contador given him in this TdF so far? His best stage finish thus far has been 8th, he's in 5th overall for time, 32nd in points, and that's with the full support of the rest of the Tinkoff team to support Conti in every stage.

It looks to me like Tinkoff, maybe with good reason, bet on the wrong horse this TdF.


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## Wesquire

phoehn9111 said:


> Oleg Tinkov better keep his mouth shut. If this isn't
> a good enough effort for him, I don't know what would
> suffice. Forget about stage wins, there is a body of work
> here that is awe inspiring. Chutzpa, verve, grit, style
> etc, etc, what we riders love. And God Almighty,
> watching his pedalling style, the brutal force and
> the way he ankles through. Definitely not a typical
> pro racer.


Can you explain what you mean?


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## Wesquire

32and3cross said:


> Nope, he got what he deserved. And as far as laying off on the woman involved, she could not really speak out during the incident and leaving her on her own afterward is one of the reasons sexism is still going strong. Which is why lots of people spoke up and made it clear that that kind of **** is not acceptable.


You know, I go back and forth on this one. It wasn't a normal situation. I mean, yeah it is not very okay to touch someone's butt that doesn't want you to touch it...but it was for jest. I don't think it is a sexism thing, more of a not knowing boundaries thing. Not that it makes it okay, but Sagan's culture growing up could have been pretty indifferent about things like this.


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## BacDoc

Wesquire said:


> Can you explain what you mean?


Think he means that more people see the brand "Tinkoff" with Sagan's performance over the course of this season. Sure, cycle enthusiasts know the stats but performing well and keeping the name/team in the spotlight has to be worth a lot.

I heard the Burger King photo bomb of the horse owner who won the triple crown cost 3 million, and at the time they paid it wasn't even a sure thing.


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## robt57

Agree, some team support so PG does not HAVE to take those kinds of risks down a descent that probably need to be taken out of the race IMO.

But Oleg can't be unhappy when Sagan get that jersey more camera time than even the yellow jersey....


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## Wesquire

BacDoc said:


> Think he means that more people see the brand "Tinkoff" with Sagan's performance over the course of this season. Sure, cycle enthusiasts know the stats but performing well and keeping the name/team in the spotlight has to be worth a lot.
> 
> I heard the Burger King photo bomb of the horse owner who won the triple crown cost 3 million, and at the time they paid it wasn't even a sure thing.


Sorry, I meant about the pedaling style.


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## Clipped_in

ibericb said:


> If Tinkoff is PO'ed, then he needs to direct his team to support Sagan, which they haven't yet done, much at all.


Agreed. It seems to me the only lead-out he gets is from his competitors. No wonder he can't quite pull out a win. Working so hard for his team, day after day, and yet still consistently being in the mix at the line is an amazing demonstration of endurance.


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## robt57

Notvintage said:


> I must be in the minority, as I think he's a clown.



Which makes me wonder what your criteria is for non clowns. A rider with PGs Skills and power that is still white jerseyable that seems to have the green jersey tattooed onto him.

If you mean his antics, wheelies etc., camera candy, I can see that. But I bet Oleg loves that ****....


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## tlg

eugenetsang said:


> At first, I understand why Tinkov was all PO'd of Sagan. Paying him that FAT check.... just to finish in 2nd place... Its as if the Yankees boss paying all the big name players to lose in the post season. Simply unacceptable in professional sports.
> 
> But I realized that all of Sagan's previous 2nd place finishes, it looks like as if he simply ran out of gas. Maybe it was his own doing... Always finishing 1/2 a wheel to full wheel short. Or he starts his sprint to the finish a few seconds too late. And Greipel looks strong. Dominated the last 1000 feet and took all wins.
> 
> But yesterday's 2nd place finish wasn't really his fault. Or maybe it was. Maybe Sagan's initial attack pissed off his opponents.. Or maybe they were scared and knew that if Grepeil isn't there to contend for the win that day, Sagan would take home his first stage win of the TdF.
> 
> Sagan didn't have any of his teammates for his lead out. He was left out to dry and had to convince his opponents to team up with him so they can chase down Plaza. But the chase group wasn't having it... So Sagan had to do all the work solo..
> 
> Had Sagan known that the chase group was going to leave him out to dry.... I'm sure Sagan would had tried to drop the group earlier and attempted to cut off some time from Plaza... But I'm sure Sagan was assuming the chase group would be willing to help out... Instead, Sagan had to do more talking than actually chasing down the leader... Allowing Plaza to pull away...
> 
> At the end... Sagan finished in 2nd, 30 secs behind Plaza. Doing work all by himself! That's amazing if you ask me. I hope Tinkov can appreciate what Sagan can do (solo). If his lead out was there, the win was definitely his!


Tinkov isn't upset with Sagan's TdF performance. His comments were from back in May about Sagan's poor performance in the spring classics.


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## BCSaltchucker

Clipped_in said:


> Agreed. It seems to me the only lead-out he gets is from his competitors. No wonder he can't quite pull out a win. Working so hard for his team, day after day, and yet still consistently being in the mix at the line is an amazing demonstration of endurance.


gotta wonder about the Cipo style leadout trains lately. This year they've been largely a bust. Mostly opportunists latching onto the right wheel are taking the sprints. Greipel amazing at it (because Kittel is awol, LOL). Cav only won this Tour when he went wheel sucking too, no train.


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## den bakker

CBus660R said:


> No point in going further. Your opinion is made up, as is mine.


it will probably change once a few guys have pinched your ass in public.


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## Skewer

You take that back. He is no clown. Women want to be with him and men want to be like him.


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## ibericb

den bakker said:


> it will probably change once a few guys have pinched your ass in public.


Can I sign-up to have the podium girls pinch my ass? Public would be fine with me.


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## den bakker

ibericb said:


> Can I sign-up to have the podium girls pinch my ass? Public would be fine with me.


not like you can choose place or person buddy. you'll get what you get. and you better lighten up, it's just in jest.


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## eugenetsang

tlg said:


> Tinkov isn't upset with Sagan's TdF performance. His comments were from back in May about Sagan's poor performance in the spring classics.


Correct. But I'm sure Tinkov expected Sagan to win a few stages in this year's TdF. Not placing 2nd all the time. The TdF is the Super Bowl of cycling. I'm sure he's thrilled that Sagan is leading the Green Jersey classification. But he's also probably not too thrilled with Sagan not winning any stages yet... Good thing the Tour isn't over yet. Sagan still has hope.

On a side note, I'm sure the Boss isn't too happy with Contador either...


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## Wesquire

eugenetsang said:


> Correct. But I'm sure Tinkov expected Sagan to win a few stages in this year's TdF. Not placing 2nd all the time. The TdF is the Super Bowl of cycling. I'm sure he's thrilled that Sagan is leading the Green Jersey classification. But he's also probably not too thrilled with Sagan not winning any stages yet... Good thing the Tour isn't over yet. Sagan still has hope.
> 
> On a side note, I'm sure the Boss isn't too happy with Contador either...


If he wants Sagan to win stages, he needs to give him some help. Sagan is doing it all solo.


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## robt57

eugenetsang said:


> I'm sure Tinkov expected Sagan to win a few stages in this year's TdF. Not placing 2nd all the time.



Well Oleg has to decide to tell the guys [one maybe] to give PG some support and not ALL his team keep baby sitting only Bert perhaps...

Like to Cav win a stage without Renshaw once in a while. Like to see him win one with Renshaw anymore...


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## Wesquire

robt57 said:


> Well Oleg has to decide to tell the guys [one maybe] to give PG some support and not ALL his team keep baby sitting only Bert perhaps...
> 
> Like to Cav win a stage without Renshaw once in a while. Like to see him win one with Renshaw anymore...


Why do you call him PG?


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## taodemon

Sagan has been the most entertaining part of this tour. The GC competition has been pretty lame so far with nibbles attack being about as exciting as it got all tour.

Lead out trains have been pretty useless this tour it seems as the sprint wins have all come from wheelsucking the leadout sprinter.


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## eugenetsang

Peter Sagan. aka P.G.


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## eugenetsang

Wesquire said:


> If he wants Sagan to win stages, he needs to give him some help. Sagan is doing it all solo.


At this point, I have more RESPECT for placing 2nd without much help...

But I see the team supporting Contador. He's only 4+ mins back. It'll be great if he could close the gap and race for yellow.


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## tlg

eugenetsang said:


> Peter Sagan. aka P.G.


Uhhh that would be P.S.


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## eugenetsang

whoops. thats what i meant lol. Maybe it was selective reading. and my mind magically corrected it to PS lol


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## Rich Gibson

32and3cross said:


> I am offended by trophy girls and umbrella girls etc.
> 
> And it was harassment in a "business environment where he was harassing a co-worker" She worked for the race. Her job was to show VIPs around and do podium presentations, she was not there a a sexual object to grabbed by anyone who wanted too. She also did not have the recourse to turn around a slap him (even tho he deserved it).
> 
> Your "lighten up" attitude is why sexism continues on. Are racial jokes ok with you as well because their just jokes right?


Hmm....I wonder how long until someone confirms Godwin's law?

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=godwins law

Rich


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## Rich Gibson

So much discussion of racing and stage winning and so little understanding of cyclists strengths and weaknesses. Sagan doesn't have the engine to go against the top sprinters or climbers. He may never win a tour stage again because the peloton knows how to choke him off. Last year many realized they could counter his tactics by drafting his lead and coming around him at the finish letting him do all the work. Last year he was mightily frustrated. When a puncheur would take off if he tried to catch him the others would tail in behind and use less energy. That's why he had to wait on the last climb yesterday and then try to catchup on the descent. He was damned if he did (try to catch the lead and use the energy) and damned if he didn't (and let the lead get too far ahead)

He will have to live with being in the top five at the finish and letting the sprinters kill off each other and wind up standing there with the most points at the end. Expecting him to win sprint stages is unrealistic.

Rich


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## eugenetsang

Rich Gibson said:


> So much discussion of racing and stage winning and so little understanding of cyclists strengths and weaknesses. Sagan doesn't have the engine to go against the top sprinters or climbers. He may never win a tour stage again because the peloton knows how to choke him off. Last year many realized they could counter his tactics by drafting his lead and coming around him at the finish letting him do all the work. Last year he was mightily frustrated. When a puncheur would take off if he tried to catch him the others would tail in behind and use less energy. That's why he had to wait on the last climb yesterday and then try to catchup on the descent. He was damned if he did (try to catch the lead and use the energy) and damned if he didn't (and let the lead get too far ahead)
> 
> He will have to live with being in the top five at the finish and letting the sprinters kill off each other and wind up standing there with the most points at the end. Expecting him to win sprint stages is unrealistic.
> 
> Rich



IMO, Sagan definitely has the power and skill to sprint with the best. But his team's strategy and tactics are not on his side right now. The team's priority right now is to look out for Contador, since he's only 4+ min behind in the GC. After all, its all about finishing in Yellow at the end of the tour right?

If the team director/owner wanted Sagan to compete for the win (for example: yesterday's stage), they would have sent the rest of the team to support Sagan and left Contador to dry.

Instead, the team's overall mission was to keep Contador as close to the front of the overall GC as possible. Hence, sending the rest of the teammates to support Contador. And Sagan had to fight for the win all by himself...

We know Sagan's strength isn't climbing. So we won't expect him to be in front of the leaders during those stages. But he strength is definitely flat stages and sprinting. Hence why he is the overall points leader and wearing the Green Jersey.

I guess what we are all agreeing with (or most of us at least) is that if the Tinkov/director wanted to help Sagan win some stages, they would have send some support. Instead, Contador is still the go to man for this year's TdF mission.


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## Rich Gibson

eugenetsang said:


> IMO, Sagan definitely has the power and skill to sprint with the best. But his team's strategy and tactics are not on his side right now. The team's priority right now is to look out for Contador, since he's only 4+ min behind in the GC. After all, its all about finishing in Yellow at the end of the tour right?
> 
> If the team director/owner wanted Sagan to compete for the win (for example: yesterday's stage), they would have sent the rest of the team to support Sagan and left Contador to dry.
> 
> Instead, the team's overall mission was to keep Contador as close to the front of the overall GC as possible. Hence, sending the rest of the teammates to support Contador. And Sagan had to fight for the win all by himself...
> 
> We know Sagan's strength isn't climbing. So we won't expect him to be in front of the leaders during those stages. But he strength is definitely flat stages and sprinting. Hence why he is the overall points leader and wearing the Green Jersey.
> 
> I guess what we are all agreeing with (or most of us at least) is that if the Tinkov/director wanted to help Sagan win some stages, they would have send some support. Instead, Contador is still the go to man for this year's TdF mission.


I agree with all your premise except Sagan's speed. He doesn't have and never will have the high end to match the current top sprinters. Once in a while, of course but not consistently. I do agree about support though. In the final sprint he is a known free wheeler because of his bike handling skills so a lead out team like CAV would never work with him. However consider if he had two or three fellow climbers on that last climb he might have been able to keep the eventual winner within reach. The two leads could turn themselves inside out to keep him close.

Instead Tinkhoff puts his money on the wrong horse. Contador is a spent round because of the Giro. Tinkhoff seems to have unreasonable expectations about the capabilities of his team. Maybe if he wasn't a rider himself and such a 'manly' man? He needs to buy more good legs to pull Contador AND Sagan up the hills.

Rich


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## eugenetsang

Rich Gibson said:


> I agree with all your premise except Sagan's speed. He doesn't have and never will have the high end to match the current top sprinters. Once in a while, of course but not consistently. I do agree about support though. In the final sprint he is a known free wheeler because of his bike handling skills so a lead out team like CAV would never work with him. However consider if he had two or three fellow climbers on that last climb he might have been able to keep the eventual winner within reach. The two leads could turn themselves inside out to keep him close.
> 
> Instead Tinkhoff puts his money on the wrong horse. Contador is a spent round because of the Giro. Tinkhoff seems to have unreasonable expectations about the capabilities of his team. Maybe if he wasn't a rider himself and such a 'manly' man? He needs to buy more good legs to pull Contador AND Sagan up the hills.
> 
> Rich


100% agreed! Bossman needs re-evaluate his team and what his overall objectives are. Every team owner wants to wear the yellow... But right now, Tinkov has 2 horses that could potentially win a stage and another that can wear the yellow.. 

But the team is in a catch 22 proposition... They could help Sagan win a few stages. But that would mean Contador and the yellow jersey will be sacrificed. The team can help Contador, but that would mean Sagan will have to win the stages all by himself...

oh... The... Drama.. Of the TdF!


----------



## Oxtox

Rich Gibson said:


> Sagan doesn't have the engine to go against the top sprinters or climbers. He may never win a tour stage again...


hmmm, not sure I'd wager any real money on that prediction. guy has a lengthy career ahead of him...


----------



## Wesquire

Rich Gibson said:


> I agree with all your premise except Sagan's speed. He doesn't have and never will have the high end to match the current top sprinters. Once in a while, of course but not consistently. I do agree about support though. In the final sprint he is a known free wheeler because of his bike handling skills so a lead out team like CAV would never work with him. However consider if he had two or three fellow climbers on that last climb he might have been able to keep the eventual winner within reach. The two leads could turn themselves inside out to keep him close.
> 
> Instead Tinkhoff puts his money on the wrong horse. Contador is a spent round because of the Giro. Tinkhoff seems to have unreasonable expectations about the capabilities of his team. Maybe if he wasn't a rider himself and such a 'manly' man? He needs to buy more good legs to pull Contador AND Sagan up the hills.
> 
> Rich


He isn't a pure sprinter. Everyone knows the completely flat stages don't suit him best. Where he shines is being able to be at the front and out-sprint everyone still there on the harder stages. He has actually closed the gap a good bit. He has been right there with Greipel on true sprints.
Watch Sagan here: https://youtu.be/5ZR84CaWLrE
If he was in a better position when starting the sprint, he would have won. He was going just as fast, and closing faster, MUCH faster than Greipel.


----------



## deviousalex

BacDoc said:


> I only wish I could look this clumsy


If any other rider had muscles that big and could stay in contention on medium sized climbs this thread would quickly be referred to the other forum that starts with a D.


----------



## Wesquire

Oxtox said:


> hmmm, not sure I'd wager any real money on that prediction. guy has a lengthy career ahead of him...


I'd wager just about everything that he will win plenty more stages if he stays healthy.


----------



## Cinelli 82220

He has a nice twitter page: https://twitter.com/petosagan?lang=en

His fan club sure has a nice bus.


----------



## Wesquire

deviousalex said:


> If any other rider had muscles that big and could stay in contention on medium sized climbs this thread would quickly be referred to the other forum that starts with a D.


Yep, those massive 14" arms.


----------



## BacDoc

For the Col de Manse stage, I think Tinkoff blew it strategically. All the GC guys stayed together and even Paul Sherwin called it a stage of 2 races (one for the stage win and the second for the GC standings) before it even began. With a rest day coming, Tinkoff should have had 2-3 riders helping Sagan in the break and up the final climb so he could be in lead or very close before the descent.

Alberto is smart and he could have just stayed close to Froome or TJ as their team did the work and all indicators had the group just playing it safe.

Sagan pulled the whole time up the Col by himself, if he had help the team could have burned bullets but he would have better position and everybody could recover on rest day.

Isn't hindsight wonderful?


----------



## den bakker

BacDoc said:


> For the Col de Manse stage, I think Tinkoff blew it strategically. All the GC guys stayed together and even Paul Sherwin called it a stage of 2 races (one for the stage win and the second for the GC standings) before it even began. With a rest day coming, Tinkoff should have had 2-3 riders helping Sagan in the break and up the final climb so he could be in lead or very close before the descent.


yeah sure. the peleton will just sit back and watch half of tinkoff go up the road. lol. Why exactly would any other team a) put riders in that team time trial and b) allow it to happen in the first place?


----------



## BacDoc

den bakker said:


> yeah sure. the peleton will just sit back and watch half of tinkoff go up the road. lol. Why exactly would any other team a) put riders in that team time trial and b) allow it to happen in the first place?


You really think the GC teams would chase Sagan and 2 other Tinkoff riders in a break? Sagans group had what, 40-50 minute lead? Maybe, but it clearly looked like the GC guys and teams were just playing it safe. Anyway, I'm no race expert just my opinion. I think if he had some help result would be different and no real harm to Contador.


----------



## den bakker

BacDoc said:


> You really think the GC teams would chase Sagan and 2 other Tinkoff riders in a break?


where did I say that? how about the dozen other teams with no real stakes in the GC but chasing stage victories? "oh well let's just give this one up at 2pm and call it a day"? Such a lopsided break would be a disaster for them.

edit: my bad. I used "GC" in previous post which was a brain fart. it was all the teams only for stage victories.


----------



## BacDoc

Still think the more riders in the break the better for Sagan. As I said before I'm no expert on racing, but it looked like Sagan drug the whole break up the Col.

Even without my armchair quarterbacking, the break up the Col and the descent to finish was a delite to watch. I watched it 3 times! Kudos to stage winner and the guy who tried to stay on Sagans wheel down the road to finish. Also props to G man for getting on his bike after the crash. All rode a fantastic race but Peter stole the show IMO.


----------



## atpjunkie

Tinkoff had a quote where he said he felt bad for Peter. That so much effort deserved a stage win. Oleg was very sympathetic and supportive. As for total speed, I think it was Griepels 2nd stage win. Sagan came from way back and damn near passed him (he wound up second). Had he been on the Gorilla's wheel and not 4 lengths back he would have gone by.


----------



## ozzybmx

Sagan has been a breath of fresh air and a delight to watch. He has made what would have been a pretty boring TDF "so far" worth watching. He's a young rider with plenty of time to improve and its been a gem to watch him chase down climber breaks with legs that size ! Like a gorilla in a tree with spider monkeys... It's like... you're not meant to be climbing mountains that fast... you are a sprinter. Awesome veiwing.


----------



## Gnarly 928

I didn't read all these posts...But I think Sagan is putting Tinkof on...sandbagging him...after Tinkof mouthed of about paying such a big contract price for someone who has not been worth it, essentially calling Sagan a waste of his money........Sagan has the the money now, Tinkof bad-mouths him. so Sagan is letting off the gas...Looks to me like he's going to be worth a lot to someone else's team after the big mouth Tinkoff is done with him...Or..he could just go ride for fun...he doesn't ever need to work again with that kinda contract...


----------



## robt57

Because there probably is no performance clause or anything in the contract....

As to sandbagging, what are the odds a young pro rider would be passive aggressive. Not sure Oleg's was the best approach, having 2 son myself...


----------



## coleman22

i think tinkoff is stubbornly sticking with their "we are here for alberto" mantra a bit too much. its not like 1 extra rider on that team helping sagan will negatively affect contador. that notion is a load of crap. if sagan had even the slightest bit of support he probably would have won a stage by now. i honestly think he needs some help with strategy out there to be honest and aside from being able to conserve some energy, having a teammate there may help him with his decisions. he should have never let anybody get away up the col de manse. if he goes over first the race is over.


----------



## ziscwg

PBL450 said:


> He's a ton of fun to watch race! And a smile for everyone! At 6'0" and 163lbs he's done for the Alps. But he is a great rider to root for! I've been doing a lot of that. He has a kind of charming and charismatic personality for such a young guy and I think it's because he just plain loves riding his bike!


It's interesting as the point of sponsorship is to the get eyeballs on the company name. Yet, he hasn't won, but there is constant coverage of him. His sponsor should be saying, "I don't care if you win the stage if you get 40% of the airtime"


----------



## ziscwg

32and3cross said:


> Nope, he got what he deserved. And as far as laying off on the woman involved, she could not really speak out during the incident and leaving her on her own afterward is one of the reasons sexism is still going strong. Which is why lots of people spoke up and made it clear that that kind of **** is not acceptable.


Yet, those podium girls at every race are not sexism..............

They are eye candy and they know it. Booth babes at trades shows know they are there to get male eyeballs. 

Peter was out of line, but at what point are the podium girls kissing the winner out of line.


----------



## ziscwg

robdamanii said:


> I must be one of the few that finds him to be an ass. Entertaining to watch in terms of his aggressive racing, but I can't stand his antics otherwise. Enough with the stupid wheelies and tricks. Go win a stage and stop acting like a child.


OK, he can be Andre Greipel now. He's won 3, but gets no coverage and is entertaining for 10 seconds when he sprints.

Racing will die without sponsors. Sponsors want eyeballs. PS gets the eyeballs. He's certainly not the traditional "ho hum" boring road racer. Maybe that's because he's a mtn biker...........Mtb riders like to show off a little and do kickouts with air and have fun. Since they removed the jumps from the TDF, PS is just improvising.


----------



## atpjunkie

goes on break today, gets Sprit points, sit up and waits so he can guide Alberto down a very nasty descent
Alberto crashes, Sagan gives him his bike. Sagan starts descending on Alberto's busted up bike, team car comes along to offer a bike change, he waves them to take care of Alberto first.

Awesome team mate, awesome team leader


----------



## den bakker

ziscwg said:


> Peter was out of line, but at what point are the podium girls kissing the winner out of line.


ehm at the point of "consent"? one is part of the agreement the other not.


----------



## coleman22

den bakker said:


> ehm at the point of "consent"? one is part of the agreement the other not.



this is such a tired topic of discussion. honestly, he grabbed a hot girl's ass,she probably liked it!


----------



## love4himies

ziscwg said:


> Yet, those podium girls at every race are not sexism..............
> 
> They are eye candy and they know it. Booth babes at trades shows know they are there to get male eyeballs.
> 
> Peter was out of line, but at what point are the podium girls kissing the winner out of line.


Yup, they are. They know they are beautiful and they want to show it off otherwise they wouldn't be models/podium girls. Personally I don't find it sexist to have podium girls. It's no different than the models working for the Oscars or The Price is Right. Also, I don't think kissing on the cheek is seen as an "invasion of personal space" as it is here in America. It's the way many greet their friends.

As I said before, the only people who should have been uptight about it was the model and his team manager (or maybe even his mother), and if she was, she should have lodged a complaint. There are much worse things that can happen to you than to have the side of your bum pinched by a very young man.


----------



## den bakker

coleman22 said:


> this is such a tired topic of discussion. honestly, he grabbed a hot girl's ass,she probably liked it!


Podium girl Maja Leye says she fought to keep calm as Peter Sagan pinched her behind | road.cc


----------



## love4himies

den bakker said:


> Podium girl Maja Leye says she fought to keep calm as Peter Sagan pinched her behind | road.cc


From your link:



> While certainly not condoning Sagan’s behaviour, Leye, whose day job is working in the general secretariat of the Flanders Classics organisation, added that she had accepted his apology for the incident, with the newspaper saying that she will protect her rear in future.
> 
> Sagan has said that he will keep his hands to himself in future,


There you go, they have worked it out and have moved on.


----------



## coleman22

you know how many times these girls are pursued by the riders after the race? certainly its often. most men have done a little grab assing in their younger years. not a big deal. 

why is this still being discussed as if it is?


----------



## den bakker

love4himies said:


> From your link:
> 
> 
> 
> There you go, they have worked it out and have moved on.


yes I actually read the link 
grab first on the himies family and ask for forgiveness later. got it.


----------



## ibericb

den bakker said:


> grab first on the himies family and ask for forgiveness later. got it.


It is typically much, much easier to get forgiveness than permission.


----------



## coleman22

i especially liked the part in the article that mentioned the boyfriend not being pleased cause all his buddies were texting him about it.....sloppy seconds anyone?


----------



## robdamanii

ziscwg said:


> OK, he can be Andre Greipel now. He's won 3, but gets no coverage and is entertaining for 10 seconds when he sprints.
> 
> Racing will die without sponsors. Sponsors want eyeballs. PS gets the eyeballs. He's certainly not the traditional "ho hum" boring road racer. Maybe that's because he's a mtn biker...........Mtb riders like to show off a little and do kickouts with air and have fun. Since they removed the jumps from the TDF, PS is just improvising.


He sure does get eyeballs. How do you think the sponsors liked his little podium girl grab?

He's an idiot.


----------



## love4himies

den bakker said:


> .... ask for forgiveness later. got it.


Is that the way you work?

BTW my comment was not directed at you, per se, but quoted your post only because it had the link. My point was that there is no need to get upset over the incident, the two involved have gotten over it.


----------



## den bakker

love4himies said:


> Is that the way you work?


no that was the way it worked out and you were apparently fine with it.
edited and don't quote half sentences from me again!


----------



## coleman22

^^are you honestly still bent out of shape about a rider pinching a podium girl's ass? 

its funny. it was funny when it happened and its still funny today. lighten up


----------



## PBL450

love4himies said:


> Yup, they are. They know they are beautiful and they want to show it off otherwise they wouldn't be models/podium girls. Personally I don't find it sexist to have podium girls. It's no different than the models working for the Oscars or The Price is Right. Also, I don't think kissing on the cheek is seen as an "invasion of personal space" as it is here in America. It's the way many greet their friends.
> 
> As I said before, the only people who should have been uptight about it was the model and his team manager (or maybe even his mother), and if she was, she should have lodged a complaint. There are much worse things that can happen to you than to have the side of your bum pinched by a very young man.


Yes. Women using attractiveness as an advantage in their work or as part of their work is completely their prerogative. Using your appearance, a highly valued commodity, for a source of income is a choice made by some women and a perfectly legitimate one. I have had students with Ivy League undergrad degrees and 4.0 GPAs in Grad School who were Jagermeister girls for promos on the weekends. They were serious feminists. And they made a LOT of money quickly and supported their academic pursuits off of guys wanting eye candy. Good for them. Touching them is out of bounds. Always and completely. What Sagan did was stupid, offensive and over the line. And it can NOT be defended. Those of you that think it's it's a laugh are way out of line. 

Now, he's a kid in a big world of money and girls throwing themselves at him... No excuses. He did something wrong. Really wrong. Stupid and sexist. But he doesn't seem to be a serial sexist? It seems like the "kid" learned the boundaries and respects them now. As long as he is doing that, the incident is gone and done, he learned something important (I sure hope) and is now a civil member of wider society, something few celebrities seem to be able to claim. 

He he needs to get the sh*t kicked out of him (figuratively) for something so wrong... But it's done. Leave it that way.


----------



## PBL450

Gnarly 928 said:


> I didn't read all these posts...But I think Sagan is putting Tinkof on...sandbagging him...after Tinkof mouthed of about paying such a big contract price for someone who has not been worth it, essentially calling Sagan a waste of his money........Sagan has the the money now, Tinkof bad-mouths him. so Sagan is letting off the gas...Looks to me like he's going to be worth a lot to someone else's team after the big mouth Tinkoff is done with him...Or..he could just go ride for fun...he doesn't ever need to work again with that kinda contract...


That's completely ridiculous. I won't bother to comment further, it's so ridiculous.


----------



## proclaimer888

ozzybmx said:


> Sagan has been a breath of fresh air and a delight to watch. He has made what would have been a pretty boring TDF "so far" worth watching. He's a young rider with plenty of time to improve and its been a gem to watch him chase down climber breaks with legs that size ! Like a gorilla in a tree with spider monkeys... It's like... you're not meant to be climbing mountains that fast... you are a sprinter. Awesome veiwing.


What is impressive is ya just can't count P.S out. The high stages, not a threat but otherwise, this kid is always in the mix. Impressive how many top 5 finishes this years TDF.


----------



## den bakker

coleman22 said:


> ^^are you honestly still bent out of shape about a rider pinching a podium girl's ass?
> 
> its funny. it was funny when it happened and its still funny today. lighten up


no. mostly distortion of quotes in this particular case. 
But since you brought it up. Does it matter if it's a podium girls ass? are they somehow less worthy since it has to be pointed out? Can I lighten up by pinching your ass in public? your spouse? mother? father? son? daughter? Are asses the limits for uninvited feels or can I cup some other feels on you?


----------



## coleman22

while those are interesting analogies, it doesn't sway my own personal reaction to this. i find most human drama to be interesting and humorous. those who thrust themselves into the spotlight are especially in the crosshairs of public humiliation, humor, or ridicule. sure i've been ass grabbed by those i haven't been so keen on, but ultimately i laugh it off. it's really no big deal in the big picture. try to lighten up, it really was funny. (even if it happened to my dear old mother)


----------



## BacDoc

atpjunkie said:


> goes on break today, gets Sprit points, sit up and waits so he can guide Alberto down a very nasty descent
> Alberto crashes, Sagan gives him his bike. Sagan starts descending on Alberto's busted up bike, team car comes along to offer a bike change, he waves them to take care of Alberto first.
> 
> Awesome team mate, awesome team leader


This is what I like about Sagan. Ya, he's a show off and at times a clown but a young rider who knows what to do and always there for the team.


----------



## love4himies

I love watching Peter. I think he gives the fans a wee bit of a show and he has the bike handling skills to do so.

A friend of mine had breakfast with him a few years back and thought he was quite shy. Maybe it was the language barrier or he just wanted to eat, who knows.


----------



## Tig

love4himies said:


> Is that the way you work?
> 
> BTW my comment was not directed at you, per se, but quoted your post only because it had the link. My point was that there is no need to get upset over the incident, the two involved have gotten over it.


Some people (like the poster in question) aren't happy unless they are b|tching about something. They are the ones who get the _Ignore Drama Queen_ button by quite a few forumites.
I advise you to ignore this one and move on. They will always try to bring others down to their miserable level and are not worth the time and effort.


----------



## love4himies

Tig said:


> Some people (like the poster in question) aren't happy unless they are b|tching about something. They are the ones who get the _Ignore Drama Queen_ button by quite a few forumites.
> I advise you to ignore this one and move on. They will always try to bring others down to their miserable level and are not worth the time and effort.


Thank you for the advise.


----------



## ziscwg

robdamanii said:


> He sure does get eyeballs. How do you think the sponsors liked his little podium girl grab?
> 
> He's an idiot.


One misstep in the entire length of a marathon.

Cannondale did not have ANYTHING really going for it for the past 4 years except for him. I know the Dorel CEO said something like "Bad Peter, Bad." Then, he went on to suck in as much publicity as PS would generate. 

Sure he was out of line and apologized for it. We can move on now.


----------



## Tig

ziscwg said:


> We can move on now.


_*No! *_The validation seekers are convinced there's still some horse flesh yet to be flogged.


----------



## ziscwg

Tig said:


> _*No! *_The validation seekers are convinced there's still some horse flesh yet to be flogged.


OK,
I validate all validation seekers on this thread. You were right, we were wrong.

Now can we move on about PS winning the final stage over Cav?


----------



## Tschai

ziscwg said:


> Yet, those podium girls at every race are not sexism..............
> 
> They are eye candy and they know it. Booth babes at trades shows know they are there to get male eyeballs.
> 
> Peter was out of line, but at what point are the podium girls kissing the winner out of line.


This is akin to blaming a woman for getting raped because she dressed provocatively. 

I'm very surprised and quite disappointed at the sexist comments here.


----------



## BacDoc

robdamanii said:


> He sure does get eyeballs. How do you think the sponsors liked his little podium girl grab?
> 
> He's an idiot.


When I was his age, I did way worse than an ass grab and little motivation for future employment. All I wanted to do was surf and chase girls.

At mid 20's making millions doing what he likes, free gear, traveling over the world on somebody else's dime, he's an idiot?

Wish I was that stupid!


----------



## atpjunkie

Sagan should have won most combative as well. Was in way more breaks than Bardet


----------



## 55x11

proclaimer888 said:


> What is impressive is ya just can't count P.S out. The high stages, not a threat but otherwise, this kid is always in the mix. Impressive how many top 5 finishes this years TDF.


A huge talent vs. a major disappointment. Amazing athlete vs. Hasn't delivered lately. A lot of fun to watch vs. A huge ass.

Correct answer - all of the ABOVE.


----------



## coleman22

Sagan machine gunning the crowd at the tour with his beloved trophy. Absolutely hilarious. 

Classy? Of course not.


----------



## Ventruck

As much as I like GOATador, he needs to pass the torch to Pistol Pete. He one-manned this run, and did it so selflessly.

That alpha celebration just shows how competitive he is.


----------



## Vibe

What an entertaining rider to watch. Definitely a fan.

Let the non-fans dwell on resolved issues from the past. As if they were saints and never made mistakes in their lives...


----------



## deviousalex

Vibe said:


> What an entertaining rider to watch. Definitely a fan.
> 
> Let the non-fans dwell on resolved issues from the past. As if they were saints and never made mistakes in their lives...


Please post this in Cavendish threads too....


----------



## tlg

55x11 said:


> A huge talent vs. a major disappointment. Amazing athlete vs. Hasn't delivered lately. A lot of fun to watch vs. A huge ass.
> 
> Correct answer - all of the ABOVE.


Major disappointment? Hasn't delivered? He did better than the team leader Contador. He saved Contador's ass by giving his bike to Contador. He was in the breakaway practically every day. He was constantly on TV (great for the team advertisers). Oh yea... he also crushed the green jersey. For the 4th year in a row.
What a way to not deliver.


----------



## Oxtox

tlg said:


> Major disappointment? Hasn't delivered? He did better than the team leader Contador. He saved Contador's ass by giving his bike to Contador. He was in the breakaway practically every day. He was constantly on TV (great for the team advertisers). Oh yea... he also crushed the green jersey. For the 4th year in a row.
> What a way to not deliver.


yeah, Sagan was such a huge no-show this year. I don't think they mentioned his name once during the coverage...

dude didn't even win the yellow jersey. 

what a loser.


----------



## 55x11

read my whole post.

But yes, not winning a single stage - now in two tours IS a major disappointment - to Sagan for sure. Especially after 6 2nd places. For a guy of his caliber, this is a problem, winning is not everything, it is THE ONLY thing. 

Being "better than Contador" is like saying that Sammy Sanchez did better than Tejay. or that Coquard did better than Rolland and Voeckler. 
Green jersey is nice, but it's a given at this point - Sagan is missing a win. and I am saying this as a fan. Same for spring classics.


----------



## tlg

55x11 said:


> read my whole post.
> 
> But yes, not winning a single stage - now in two tours IS a major disappointment - to Sagan for sure. Especially after 6 2nd places. For a guy of his caliber, this is a problem, winning is not everything, it is THE ONLY thing.
> 
> Being "better than Contador" is like saying that Sammy Sanchez did better than Tejay. or that Coquard did better than Rolland and Voeckler.
> Green jersey is nice, but it's a given at this point - Sagan is missing a win. and I am saying this as a fan. Same for spring classics.


What did Contador win? Nothing.
What did Sagan win? The green jersey.

Cavendish won 1 stage.
Do you think Cavendish was a success while Sagan was a "major" disappointment?


----------



## PBL450

tlg said:


> What did Contador win? Nothing.
> What did Sagan win? The green jersey.
> 
> Cavendish won 1 stage.
> Do you think Cavendish was a success while Sagan was a "major" disappointment?


I'd say he was "among" the most successful riders in the Tour! Sure, a stage win (or two or four like the Gorilla) would be awesome and would make his tour better, but he still had a great Tour.


----------



## Vibe

deviousalex said:


> Please post this in Cavendish threads too....


...why? I'm not a Cavendish fan.


----------



## deviousalex

Vibe said:


> ...why? I'm not a Cavendish fan.


Exactly. When people start bashing Cavendish about things in the past everyone keeps silent.


----------



## ziscwg

Tschai said:


> This is akin to blaming a woman for getting raped because she dressed provocatively.
> 
> I'm very surprised and quite disappointed at the sexist comments here.


I'm not here for my looks.


----------



## ziscwg

Oxtox said:


> yeah, Sagan was such a huge no-show this year. I don't think they mentioned his name once during the coverage...
> 
> dude didn't even win the yellow jersey.
> 
> what a loser.


I agree. If he can't win the green, yellow, polka dot, and white jersey, he needs to hang it up. 

He could have pulled it off this yr with an odd set of circumstances. Short KOM hill, win the sprint, and solid TT.


----------



## ibericb

55x11 said:


> read my whole post.
> 
> But yes, not winning a single stage - now in two tours IS a major disappointment - to Sagan for sure. Especially after 6 2nd places. For a guy of his caliber, this is a problem, winning is not everything, it is THE ONLY thing.
> 
> Being "better than Contador" is like saying that Sammy Sanchez did better than Tejay. or that Coquard did better than Rolland and Voeckler.
> Green jersey is nice, but it's a given at this point - Sagan is missing a win. and I am saying this as a fan. Same for spring classics.


Depends on how you define winning. In the TdF there are multiple wins, both stages and overall.

How many stages dd Froome win this year?

How many stages did Froome win before he took the yellow jersey to keep it for the remainder of the race?

Not everyone on a team is there to win the overall time GC, or even a stage. There are multiple roles. Sagan fulfilled his, more than adequately, which is something Contador did NOT do.

I'm sure Sagan is disappointed he didn't win a stage, and I imagine Tinkoff would have been much happier to boot. But, he ended up with a firm hold on the second highest valued overall jersey for the race, and did it the 4th year in a row. That's damned impressive.


----------



## ddave12000

ibericb said:


> I'm sure Sagan is disappointed he didn't win a stage, and I imagine Tinkoff would have been much happier to boot. But, he ended up with a firm hold on the second highest valued overall jersey for the race, and did it the 4th year in a row. That's damned impressive.


Considering Oleg basically said he was a disappointment for not winning a stage I don't think we need to imagine it. 

I also thought it was an impressive showing.


----------



## tlg

ddave12000 said:


> Considering Oleg basically said he was a disappointment for not winning a stage I don't think we need to imagine it.


What is "basically" saying it? What did he say?


----------



## ibericb

tlg said:


> What is "basically" saying it? What did he say?


A blog entry by Tinkov made yesterday. I don't know that "disappointed" is the right word, given what he had to say about Sagan.


----------



## 9W9W

Yea, he's fun to watch when he clowns himself on television but geez, what a name dropping arsehole this guy is.


----------



## msignore

I personally find him very entertaining. Yea, he shouldnt have made that grab on the podium girl, but we all make some bad choices when we are young. But whether you like him or hate him I feel that he is good for further developing the sport. I would bet that there are more neighborhood kids getting out on their bikes pretending to be sagan more than anyone else.


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## deviousalex

msignore said:


> Yea, he shouldnt have made that grab on the podium girl, but we all make some bad choices when we are young.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq8rX75IwVs

After seeing this I was not shocked about the podium grab. People pretend it's an isolated incident but I think it shows a lot about his real personality.


----------



## country cyclist

Hell, i'm in my forties and i was just out tonight pretending to be petro. Still having a little trouble with that one handed wheelie,and i did get slapped when i tried to autograph my wife's chest after a finish line sprint up the driveway.


----------



## ddave12000

ibericb said:


> A blog entry by Tinkov made yesterday. I don't know that "disappointed" is the right word, given what he had to say about Sagan.





> It was nice that Peter (Sagan) rode so well but I’ve actually got mixed emotions about his Tour de France. We all know that cycling is about winning and there’s far less value to second and third places, even if that’s something that should change. Sagan was second five times and countless times in the top five but he hasn’t won a stage. It would have been good for his morale to win. He was no doubt the strongest guy in the Tour; we saw that by his attacking to dominate the points jersey. He was also the most popular rider in the race according to the Tour statistics. That’s great from marketing point of view. I just wish he’d won at least once.


Pretty back handed compliment if you ask me.


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## ibericb

ddave12000 said:


> Pretty back handed compliment if you ask me.


He was on Sagan's case in May, for sure. Overall, I'd say he was pleased with the attention Sagan got in the TdF coupled with his dominance of the green. There was generally as much positive talk about Sagan as there was Froome, which was way more than Contador, who was generally viewed as a disappointment by the press.


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## BacDoc

deviousalex said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq8rX75IwVs
> 
> After seeing this I was not shocked about the podium grab. People pretend it's an isolated incident but I think it shows a lot about his real personality.


Exactly! He does have personality and it obviously didn't bother that girl or the guy she was with.

More Sagan personality here.

http://youtu.be/afYOn0tHIM8


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## msignore

country cyclist said:


> Hell, i'm in my forties and i was just out tonight pretending to be petro. Still having a little trouble with that one handed wheelie,and i did get slapped when i tried to autograph my wife's chest after a finish line sprint up the driveway.


Ha ha that's awesome.


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## ziscwg

ibericb said:


> He was on Sagan's case in May, for sure. Overall, I'd say he was pleased with the attention Sagan got in the TdF coupled with his dominance of the green. There was generally as much positive talk about Sagan as there was Froome, which was way more than Contador, who was generally viewed as a disappointment by the press.


I noticed he did not get on Contador's case for not winning. 

Peter won in May like Contador. Yet, Peter got his target jersey and Contador did not. So, Tinkov, has mixed feeling on PS not winning a stage?


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## ddave12000

ziscwg said:


> I noticed he did not get on Contador's case for not winning.
> 
> Peter won in May like Contador. Yet, Peter got his target jersey and Contador did not. So, Tinkov, has mixed feeling on PS not winning a stage?


Yeah, I think it's weird too.


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## bigmig19

ddave12000 said:


> Yeah, I think it's weird too.


someone may have already asked the question....what is his destiny? He's fast but not the best, he can climb a little but not great, can win stages, but what is his big picture? Isnt he basically thor hushovd/ tom boonen/ fabian cancellara (minus the TT skills) as far as his potential? Shouldnt the belgian classics, paris roubaix be a good goal for him? If not then what?


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## den bakker

bigmig19 said:


> someone may have already asked the question....what is his destiny? He's fast but not the best, he can climb a little but not great, can win stages, but what is his big picture? Isnt he basically thor hushovd/ tom boonen/ fabian cancellara (minus the TT skills) as far as his potential? Shouldnt the belgian classics, paris roubaix be a good goal for him? If not then what?


he was hired for winning in the spring races.


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## ddave12000

bigmig19 said:


> someone may have already asked the question....what is his destiny? He's fast but not the best, he can climb a little but not great, can win stages, but what is his big picture? Isnt he basically thor hushovd/ tom boonen/ fabian cancellara (minus the TT skills) as far as his potential? Shouldnt the belgian classics, paris roubaix be a good goal for him? If not then what?


That sounds good, but I don't really know. He's young enough and talented enough that he could probably go one of several directions if wanted to. 

I was only commenting on his boss' seemingly less than happy comments on what I thought was a very successful TDF showing.


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## ibericb

Read this interview.


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## BacDoc

ibericb said:


> Read this interview.


Wow! Tinkoff sounds like a real dick in that one. He wants to try and reneg on the Sagan contract? In pro sports when you sign an athlete you are always taking a chance and I think it's even more the case in cycling. Contract is a contract unless there is a specific performance clause, which doesn't appear to be the case here.

Sagan sounds way more mature than Tinkoff in this one:

Sagan: I want to speak with Tinkov eye to eye | Cyclingnews.com


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## 55x11

ddave12000 said:


> Yeah, I think it's weird too.


come on. Sagan winning green was pretty much guaranteed. 
Yellow for Contador was a whole different level of competition.

Sagan NOT winning green - shocking.
Contador WINNING yellow - shocking.


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## ddave12000

55x11 said:


> come on. Sagan winning green was pretty much guaranteed.
> Yellow for Contador was a whole different level of competition.
> 
> Sagan NOT winning green - shocking.
> Contador WINNING yellow - shocking.


I wasn't really referring to Contador not winning. I was referring to Tinkoff's reaction to Sagan's race: "Let me compliment you on your race, but also let you know that you suck for not winning a stage". 

The reality is more like Tinkoff's rider dominated the coverage 2/3 of the stages and won the green despite the rules being changed specifically to make it harder for him to win it. Yeah he didn't win a stage but he still did more for his team than probably any other single rider did for theirs short of winning the yellow.


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## mpre53

Tinkoff = the George Steinbrenner of cycling.

Sagan is his Dave Winfield.


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## Clipped_in

mpre53 said:


> Tinkoff = the George Steinbrenner of cycling.


True!!! :thumbsup:


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## greatestalltime

robdamanii said:


> I must be one of the few that finds him to be an ass. Entertaining to watch in terms of his aggressive racing, but I can't stand his antics otherwise. Enough with the stupid wheelies and tricks. Go win a stage and stop acting like a child.


 I bet I know which side I'd find you on in the Politics only forum.:thumbsup:


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## MMsRepBike




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## AirForceNole

Wouldn't Michael Matthews or GVA be a good competitor for the green jersey? I dont believe either was there. Both can decently sprint, both can probably climb better then sagan, but after Cali I maybe wrong, but I wouldn't put it out if realm that they could win California as well. I do believe overall Sagan is better.


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## BacDoc

Sagan looks very strong winning yesterday's stage and coming in second today in Spain.

The most impressive thing to me was getting to that climb today, Tinkoff kept up a very fast pace at the front for a looong time. Going what, 30mph and faster, then they hit the climb at maybe 10mph? Must be quite a hit to the legs!

Valverde looked strong. Besides winning the stage he probably felt even better it was Sagan he beat.

Love those narrow, tight, twisty uphill finishes on a turn!


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## Rokh Hard

Notvintage said:


> I must be in the minority, as I think he's a clown.


im at the back of the bus with you. someone could hose him down with a bucket of humility as well.


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## ziscwg

BacDoc said:


> Sagan looks very strong winning yesterday's stage and coming in second today in Spain.


Until some motorcycle jockey took him out for showing off too much.


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## SNS1938

no new posts after yesterday?


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## Rokh Hard

SNS1938 said:


> no new posts after yesterday?



he rode a good race! and seems to gotten hold of some humility as well. good on the boy. :thumbsup:


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## BacDoc

IMO one of the best world champs ever! Very convincing win on a tough course.

Seems like he gets along well with the rest of the peleton and I never hear him complain when he loses. Even with all his showboating I think he is one of the most humble athletes especially for his age.


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## deviousalex

BacDoc said:


> Seems like he gets along well with the rest of the peleton and I never hear him complain when he loses. Even with all his showboating I think he is one of the most humble athletes especially for his age.


Maybe you should listen to some more of his post-race conferences. I remember him talking to one of the ITV4 reporters after a stage where he was coming in 2nd wheel into the last turn and crashed out. 2014 tour I think it was.

He said something to the effect of:
"See what happens? You say I'm the favorite for the stage, then I crash out."

I'm not dissing the guy for it, but I'm saying anyone that thinks people don't "complain" when they loose is living in a dream world. Half the time it's quotes taken out of context and people come across as "complainers". I was reading some various FB posts posting Sagan won and everyone was dissing other riders saying "this is a guy that doens't complain!" blah blah blah. Yeah, of course you aren't going to complain when you win.


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## BacDoc

deviousalex said:


> Maybe you should listen to some more of his post-race conferences. I remember him talking to one of the ITV4 reporters after a stage where he was coming in 2nd wheel into the last turn and crashed out. 2014 tour I think it was.
> 
> He said something to the effect of:
> "See what happens? You say I'm the favorite for the stage, then I crash out."
> 
> I'm not dissing the guy for it, but I'm saying anyone that thinks people don't "complain" when they loose is living in a dream world. Half the time it's quotes taken out of context and people come across as "complainers". I was reading some various FB posts posting Sagan won and everyone was dissing other riders saying "this is a guy that doens't complain!" blah blah blah. Yeah, of course you aren't going to complain when you win.


After all of his second place finishes this year, he never gave excuses or complained. Every time I heard him talk about giving total effort and going full gas but he usually says other rider was faster.

Many of those bunch sprints with the argy bargy going on, almost every sprinter complains someone shut the door or another rider didn't hold his line. Some are worse than soccer players feigning injury. Never heard Sagan act like that or say that. In fact when interviewed about aggressive moves in a bunch sprint he usually sounds like Spicolli "Hey bro lets party!"

On another note, just watched the last couple km and those turns he took at speed were strategically and technically perfect. Or as Sagan says " It was like boom boom boom and then I won".


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## RkFast

32and3cross said:


> Nope, he got what he deserved. And as far as laying off on the woman involved, she could not really speak out during the incident and leaving her on her own afterward is one of the reasons sexism is still going strong. Which is why lots of people spoke up and made it clear that that kind of **** is not acceptable.


Lighten up, Francis.


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## JohnStonebarger

deviousalex said:


> ...He said something to the effect of:
> "See what happens? You say I'm the favorite for the stage, then I crash out...."


That's a complaint? Sounds more like he was joking.


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## BacDoc

Classic Peter Sagan

The Winner's Podium Celebration, Elite Men's RR (2015/road-cycling-world-championships)


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## Cinelli 82220

Nice to see so many of the other riders like Boonen giving him high fives at the finish.


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## troutmd

BacDoc said:


> IMO one of the best world champs ever! Very convincing win on a tough course.
> 
> Seems like he gets along well with the rest of the peleton and I never hear him complain when he loses. Even with all his showboating I think he is one of the most humble athletes especially for his age.


Sagan is the guy we'd all like to go on a ride with --- talented with a sense of deprecating humor, and humble. Great to see him win this WC.


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## ziscwg

RkFast said:


> Lighten up, Francis.


"Any of you guys *call me Francis, and I'll kill* you"

Did anyone else notice Warren Oates died a short time after Stripes was released?

The important real question is..........Has Peter Sagan seen Stripes??? Didn't "the commandos" invade what is now Slovkia in the movie? If Peter's dad was in the military, didn't Winger call his dad a "pu$$y"?


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## mpre53

ziscwg said:


> "Any of you guys *call me Francis, and I'll kill* you"
> 
> Did anyone else notice Warren Oates died a short time after Stripes was released?
> 
> The important real question is..........Has Peter Sagan seen Stripes??? Didn't "the commandos" invade what is now Slovkia in the movie? If Peter's dad was in the military, didn't Winger call his dad a "pu$$y"?


I thought that what they invaded is now the Czech Republic, but I could be wrong---and probably am.


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## ziscwg

mpre53 said:


> I thought that what they invaded is now the Czech Republic, but I could be wrong---and probably am.


I thought czechoslovakia got broken up after the fall of hte USSR. Slovakia was one of their bigger states, I think. Someone should google that for me.

So, we just have to know if Peter Sagan is pissed at Bill Murray. He can't actually be mad at Harold Ramis, because he died. It was actually Mr Ramis that called them pus$ies


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## Special Eyes

troutmd said:


> Sagan is the guy we'd all like to go on a ride with --- talented with a sense of deprecating humor, and humble. Great to see him win this WC.


That's right. Peter is the MAN now.

The rest of you guys that are ruining this thread can shut the hell up now and go away.


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## 32and3cross

RkFast said:


> Lighten up, Francis.


Sorry misogynistic BS is no longer welcome. Seem like Peter was able to learn that and move on maybe you should too.


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## 32and3cross

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Nice to see so many of the other riders like Boonen giving him high fives at the finish.


That was pretty cool.

I was slightly past the 1k to go banner when Sagan came by you should see the effort he was making and to be honest I dod not think he could hold them off esp by the attack Uran launched right in front of me.


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## ibericb

32and3cross said:


> Sorry misogynistic BS is no longer welcome. Seem like Peter was able to learn that and move on maybe you should too.


Let me guess, never seen the movie _Stripes_?


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## 32and3cross

ibericb said:


> Let me guess, never seen the movie _Stripes_?


No I love Strips and quote is all the time. That does not change the fact that misogynistic actions are unwelcome.

Trying to say such actions are "just a joke" so no one can object is BS.


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## Rokh Hard

32and3cross said:


> Sorry misogynistic BS is no longer welcome. Seem like Peter was able to learn that and move on maybe you should too.



just about impossible to control that with as much test the guy is taking. :thumbsup:


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## MMsRepBike




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## BacDoc

Rokh Hard said:


> just about impossible to control that with as much test the guy is taking. :thumbsup:


At his age and all his training I'm pretty sure his levels are at the high end of the range naturally. 

There are many PED's besides Test that are probably in the "program" but that is for another forum.

For those who haven't seen it, you really have to watch the last part of the World's road race. The last descent when Sagan goes into super tuck and hits the first turn at warp speed is technical precision and absolutely no loss of speed. Bike is so leaned over at high speed, so beautiful to watch. SteephillTV has video of the last 6 km 
Last 6 Km of the Elite Men's RR (2015/road-cycling-world-championships)


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## mpre53

ziscwg said:


> I thought czechoslovakia got broken up after the fall of hte USSR. Slovakia was one of their bigger states, I think. Someone should google that for me.
> 
> View attachment 309547


It did, but I thought that Slovakia was the more eastern part of Czechoslovakia, and that the Czech part bordered West Germany. I'll have to google a map.

It was also a hell of a lot easier when all of the Balkans were Yugoslavia. :lol:


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## redcon1

Loved the solo break for the win. Hell of a race. Watched the last laps on the Governor Street climb.


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## ziscwg

32and3cross said:


> No I love Strips and quote is all the time. That does not change the fact that misogynistic actions are unwelcome.
> 
> Trying to say such actions are "just a joke" so no one can object is BS.



Well, I always put in stupid jokes. That's the fact, Jack.

It helps me cope with the boom chugaluga boom chugaluga pace I have climbing


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## Rashadabd

What Sagan did to the podium girl last year was wrong, plain and simple, but I think there is more to the kid. This article gives me hope that Peter is growing up before our eyes. Maybe it's time to forgive him for the mistakes he made as a youth just as we hope others forgive us for ours. 

Sagan announces his new-found depth with rainbow jersey win | Cyclingnews.com


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## 32and3cross

ziscwg said:


> Well, I always put in stupid jokes. That's the fact, Jack.
> 
> It helps me cope with the boom chugaluga boom chugaluga pace I have climbing


Whatever


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## MMsRepBike

Sagan shows off world champion's kit and bike | Cyclingnews.com










White shorts...










I think his sponsors could have done much better than that... I'm disappointed in them.


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## dnice

i'm cool with the bike, but what i'm wondering is how come the bands always run horizontal ACROSS the jersey? it's certainly possible to be more creative with if they were able to run the bands vertically, for example. not sure if there is a rule or trademark at play, or what...


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## 32and3cross

dnice said:


> i'm cool with the bike, but what i'm wondering is how come the bands always run horizontal ACROSS the jersey? it's certainly possible to be more creative with if they were able to run the bands vertically, for example. not sure if there is a rule or trademark at play, or what...


Its a rule, there are some specific rules from the UCI as far as prominence and placement of the bands.

I kinda like the kit, its straight forward, tho I would have only done white side panels on the shorts. The bike is ok as well but not amazing.


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## BacDoc

32and3cross said:


> The bike is ok as well but not amazing.


WHAT?

Dude! You must have some nice bikes if you think that bike is "ok"!


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## Ritsuke

MMsRepBike said:


> Sagan shows off world champion's kit and bike | Cyclingnews.com
> 
> White shorts...
> 
> I think his sponsors could have done much better than that... I'm disappointed in them.


There seems to be an UCI rule stating you can only have black shorts if the teamkit has black shorts in them. Tinkoff - Saxo doesn't therefore the white shorts. It's a pity though. The kit would look so much better with black shorts and just a small rainbox band on the legs.


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## 32and3cross

BacDoc said:


> WHAT?
> 
> Dude! You must have some nice bikes if you think that bike is "ok"!


I don't dig the paint job its ok but it doesn't move me for some reason.


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## Cinelli 82220

32and3cross said:


> I don't dig the paint job its ok but it doesn't move me for some reason.


The paint on Sagan's and Kwiatkowski's bikes was pathetic.
Spesh trying to be too artsy, a four year old doing finger painting could do better.


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## 9W9W

Cinelli 82220 said:


> The paint on Sagan's and Kwiatkowski's bikes was pathetic.
> Spesh trying to be too artsy, a four year old doing finger painting could do better.


Out of these two, Kwiatek's bike was better looking. Sagan's paint job is a freaking mess. Crosses, sparkle flake, gold, black, red...just no.


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## Rashadabd

9W9W said:


> Out of these two, Kwiatek's bike was better looking. Sagan's paint job is a freaking mess. Crosses, sparkle flake, gold, black, red...just no.


My favorite paint schemes on the recent Tarmacs are the purplish Sworks from this year, The black and yellow Nibali Sworks special edition that is still available, and the maroon and gold SWorks from last year, which was stunning in person. Everything else, I am kind of meh about. The Venge Lunchtime was a cool paint scheme as well. I actually think this year is a bad one for Specialized's design team as a whole. They were on point last year though.


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## NealH

The paint job on Sagan's Tarmac above seems a little different than on the current Sagan frame set as shown on the Specialzied website. It looks pretty good, but I tend to agree that last year's paint jobs may have been a touch more pleasing. Still, its whats under the paint that counts and from that perspective, the Tarmac is top of the shelf. A really fine bike. Even my SW SL3 of 5 years now is a really good bike - and I've ridden quite a few.


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## burgrat

I love his new "STinkoff" jersey. 


View attachment 309854


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## MMsRepBike

She could use to do some squats.


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## pedalbiker

dnice said:


> i'm cool with the bike, but what i'm wondering is how come the bands always run horizontal ACROSS the jersey? it's certainly possible to be more creative with if they were able to run the bands vertically, for example. not sure if there is a rule or trademark at play, or what...


The old world cup winner's jersey ran vertical. World champs go horizontal. 

Can't mix the two. It's cycling law.


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## Rashadabd

MMsRepBike said:


> She could use to do some squats.


I just watched this and was about to post it here. Thank you MMs. I have to admit that Mr. Sagan is growing on me big time. This started my morning off with a chuckle and when combined with his performance at last year's worlds and the things he said during the interviews that followed including statements about maturing and wanting to work even harder to be the best have really made me take a second look at him. I love that he can accomplish so much, but still has the good sense not to take himself too seriously and to play a little. His commitment to his new wife and to his teammates is a side of him that I missed in the beginning as well. Keep it going Peter, bring some llife, laughs, and passion to this sport. Lord knows we need them. 

Here's a pic of the guy in the WC jersey pulling domestique duties for his teammates. I love it:

https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/ins...2/2015/12/photos_2015_WATSON_00004378-075.jpg


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## love4himies

Is there nothing that man can't do. I watched this video earlier and thoroughly enjoyed it.


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## PBL450

MMsRepBike said:


> She could use to do some squats.


This is great! Thanks for posting MMs!! His timing is pretty good! And he looks like he is having fun! I'm a fan.


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## MMsRepBike

Opening stage at Tour de San Luis, TTT on road bikes.
They got fourth.


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## love4himies

MMsRepBike said:


> Opening stage at Tour de San Luis, TTT on road bikes.
> They got fourth.


With hairy legs. Is that going to be a new fashion statement along with the beards I wonder?


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## MMsRepBike

Not a chance. He's just flexing his rebel (lazy) muscles.


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## MMsRepBike




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## deviousalex

MMsRepBike said:


>


"This video is private". A little too viral a little to quickly? Got the TL;DW version?


----------



## MMsRepBike

deviousalex said:


> "This video is private". A little too viral a little to quickly? Got the TL;DW version?



https://www.instagram.com/p/BA0DdJfwUpw/


----------



## LostViking

Happy Birthday to the World Champ!


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## MMsRepBike

?okujúce FOTO Saganovho ?ialeného ú?esu: Peter, ?o si to so sebou spravil? | ?portky.sk


















:ihih:

Convincing work.


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## deviousalex

Peter "Two Face" Sagan? Maybe he'll shave only one leg next.


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## MMsRepBike

deviousalex said:


> Peter "Two Face" Sagan? Maybe he'll shave only one leg next.


That would actually be quite hilarious and very news worthy.


----------



## Rashadabd

It looks like the world champ is ready for the Classics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjJRhiK7Yg4&feature=youtu.be


----------



## dnice

he's not loving the Fabian Cancellara treatment (i.e, wheel suck the strongman in the break) that he's been getting from some other riders, is he?


----------

