# are Revolution spokes worth extra $$? Do they last?



## fiddledoc (May 28, 2003)

I'm considering having Excel build me a set of wheels (their on-line wheelbuilding calculator is very useful). I found that if I use DT Revolution spokes with alloy nipples instead of the standard 14-15 with brass nipples, I'd save around 200 grams. It would cost $25 extra.

My question is, will these spokes hold up well? Details: I would get 28 front/32rear (both 3 cross). I weigh 170 lbs and ride 100 miles/week, often with a lot of climbing.

I don't want to trade light weight for durability (I don't race)

If you have experience with these spokes, I'd like to hear your opinion.


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## saab2000 (Mar 16, 2004)

It is my experience that they are OK on the front and probably OK on the non-drive side of the rear. My personal experience is that they are not OK on the drive side. 

Modern handbuilt wheels involve a lot of offset (dish) and the drive side is very high tension and the non drive side is far looser. 

IIRC, Excel does not sell rims with offset drilling. Velocity and Bontrager both make such rims. 

I have a wheel with the Bontrager rim and 14 guage spokes and thusfar it has proven to be pretty good. 

My personal experience tells me to avoid Revs (or their equivilant) on the drive side for sure. Durability is far more important than a bit of weight savings, IMHO. 

On the front, however, go wild. I have many 28-spoke fronts with DT revs and alloy nips and they have been trouble free for years.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Consider 15/16*

I think your 200 grams may be a little high. The data I have (from the OddsandEndos site http://oddsandendos.safeshopper.com/11/cat11.htm?118) says that 32 14/15 spokes weigh 212gm, 15/16 = 171, and Revs = 157. Brass nipples weigh 30 gm/32 and alloy nipples weigh 10 gm/32. Adding it all up, you save 150 gms going to Revs/Al but would save 82 by going to 15/16 w/brass or 122 with 15/16/Al. IME, alloy nipples are not a good choice due to durability, more difficult building, and the tendency to sieze on the spoke.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

I have 2 pairs of wheels built by Excel with Revolutions. I weigh about 20 pounds less than you do, and their recommendation was to use them everywhere except rear drive side. I went with 14/15 for those.

On a 32 spoke wheel, building drive side this way costs you a whole 28 grams - 79 grams vs. 107 for 14/15. Not much of a savings.

Other than that, good wheels, no problems.


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## Nessism (Feb 6, 2004)

I'm a big fan of 15/16's for front and non-drive side rear. They're more fault tolerant than Revolutions and only weigh a little bit more.

Ed


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## KATZRKOL (Mar 4, 2004)

*Nessism's right. ..*



Nessism said:


> I'm a big fan of 15/16's for front and non-drive side rear. They're more fault tolerant than Revolutions and only weigh a little bit more.
> Ed


I've built many excellent wheelsets, and I have concluded the following makes a light and bulletproof pair of wheels. 

Front: 2 cross, 28 hole with DT Revo spokes and aluminum nipples. 

Rear: 32 hole 3 cross, with 14/15 -Drive side and 15/16 non-drive side, brass nipples on drive-side spokes and aluminum on non-drive side.


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## PMC (Jan 29, 2004)

Excel may still have some Ritchey Aero OCR rear rims in stock which has an offset.

I had a set of Ritchey Aeros built with Kings & DT Revs 24/28 from Excel. The front was fine despite having only 24 spokes. The rear was problematic even with the offset spoke bed. It just didn't want to stay tensioned and true. They were really light and felt good to ride, I just couldn't get past the freewheeling sound the rear hub made and the issues with it coming out of true. I ended up selling them. 
I'm a bit lighter than you but not by a lot fyi.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

*I don't get the 15/16 thing?*



Kerry Irons said:


> I think your 200 grams may be a little high. The data I have (from the OddsandEndos site http://oddsandendos.safeshopper.com/11/cat11.htm?118) says that 32 14/15 spokes weigh 212gm, 15/16 = 171, and Revs = 157. Brass nipples weigh 30 gm/32 and alloy nipples weigh 10 gm/32. Adding it all up, you save 150 gms going to Revs/Al but would save 82 by going to 15/16 w/brass or 122 with 15/16/Al. IME, alloy nipples are not a good choice due to durability, more difficult building, and the tendency to sieze on the spoke.


14/17 (revo's, xl14's) put the material where it does the most good.....on the ends. More thread engagement at the nipple and more material at the j-bend for better resistance to work hardening. I think there's a reason these companies with wayyyyyyy more spoke data and engineering prowess in that area than us have designated these (14/17) as there premiere round spoke. Oh, and their lighter.


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## bimini (Jul 2, 2003)

*I agree with the heavier spokes on the drive side*

It will help keep enough stretch in the non drive side to prevent the nipples from backing off.

I have had problems with AL nipples after they have been on the wheels for a few years. They tend to oxidize themselves to the spokes. When you go to adjust the spoke they are hard to break free. It is easy to crack or damage the nipples when trying to break them free. I have had AL nipples pop apart while climbing or sprinting due to this. The AL nipples are fine for light weight racing wheels but I go with the plated brass ones now on my everyday wheels.

If Excel uses spoke prep, the corrosion may not be as much of a problem. It has some anti-corrosion chemicals in it to delay the onset of corrosion. But over time I would guess that the stuff will get washed away. Racing only wheels should not see much in the way of washing or water, so the AL nipples are fine for those.


terry b said:


> I have 2 pairs of wheels built by Excel with Revolutions. I weigh about 20 pounds less than you do, and their recommendation was to use them everywhere except rear drive side. I went with 14/15 for those.
> 
> On a 32 spoke wheel, building drive side this way costs you a whole 28 grams - 79 grams vs. 107 for 14/15. Not much of a savings.
> 
> Other than that, good wheels, no problems.


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## Nessism (Feb 6, 2004)

OnTheRivet said:


> 14/17 (revo's, xl14's) put the material where it does the most good.....on the ends. More thread engagement at the nipple and more material at the j-bend for better resistance to work hardening. I think there's a reason these companies with wayyyyyyy more spoke data and engineering prowess in that area than us have designated these (14/17) as there premiere round spoke. Oh, and their lighter.



14/17's were designed for weight weenies looking to save every last gram. Yes, they build into a lightweight wheel but they are more difficult to build with, because of wind up, and the tension must be watched closely since it's more likely to yield the center section of the spoke if the tension gets too high.

For a skilled builder and lightweight rider, no problem. For a skilled builder and heavier rider willing to give up some durability, no problem. For everyone else, be careful.


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## flattire (Jan 29, 2004)

*No need to trade weight for durability*



fiddledoc said:


> I don't want to trade light weight for durability (I don't race)


I like your idea of the 28 front and 32 rear for your weight. Since you don't race (and even if you did) I would advise using 14-15 DB spokes with brass nips all around. I am not a weight weenie but I have a lot of friends that are. Alloy nipples have caused a lot of problems amongst my friends, including the nips splitting vertically, snapping off at the ends, and most commonly seizing up rendering 1-2 year old wheelsets untrueable. I myself after 23 years of riding have not experienced any of these problems. ( I have never ridden anything but traditional built wheels with brass nips.) I have also seen radially laced wheels pull the hub flange apart on a couple of occasions, so I would probably avoid that as well and I believe that voids the warranty on Campy hubs at least. 

I have purchased a set of wheels from Excel in the past and they were excellently built.


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## weiwentg (Feb 3, 2004)

Kerry Irons said:


> I think your 200 grams may be a little high. The data I have (from the OddsandEndos site http://oddsandendos.safeshopper.com/11/cat11.htm?118) says that 32 14/15 spokes weigh 212gm, 15/16 = 171, and Revs = 157. Brass nipples weigh 30 gm/32 and alloy nipples weigh 10 gm/32. Adding it all up, you save 150 gms going to Revs/Al but would save 82 by going to 15/16 w/brass or 122 with 15/16/Al. IME, alloy nipples are not a good choice due to durability, more difficult building, and the tendency to sieze on the spoke.


IME, if you get a wrench that grips the nipple on all 4 sides (eg, Delta's Spokey, which oddsandendos sells), alloy nipples are pretty OK to build up. I've rounded off dozens with a Park spoke wrench. as for durability and siezing, I have no argument, although I imagine lubing your nipples (on the wheel, of course) every year would reduce the chance of siezing. I've had brass nipples siezed to the spokes on a set of Veloce hubs/CXP21s.


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## takmanjapan (Mar 24, 2004)

*No Sweat!*

I have a set of Mavic hubs, Mavid Gel280 rims and 32 revolutions front and rear 3x with alloy nipples. Never any durability issues for me and I weigh about 80Kg (175lbs). Had them for about 3 years and never had any major truing problems or any spoke breakage. Made for a real light set of wheels'

Front: GEL280 rim, 32 spokes, Mavic 550 hub. Weight 615 grams
Rear: GEL280 rim, 32 spokes, Mavic 570/1 freehub. Weight 810 grams

TakmanJapan


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## campyhag (Feb 4, 2004)

I have those very wheels, 8000 miles later they are perfect and have never been trued. I weigh 163-167 depending on time of year and mostly sit and spin. I have used them on crappy roads in upstate n.y. I got mine from excelsports and could not be happier.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Great thread. Would read again. Would recommend to friends and family.

👍


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