# Cheap Commuter Experiment



## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

I need/want a new bike for commuting to work and JRA. I originally intended to go build up the steel frame from Ribble (their Reynolds 525 Audax frame). The only drawback to this plan was that they required you to buy their fork as well (their fork isn't bad but there's others out there just as good for less). I came across this frame while shopping for other stuff,
Amazon.com : CFG Cycle Force Cro-mo Road Frame, 58cm/X-Large, Black : Sports & Outdoors
and figured to give it a shot, since for less than $100 if it doesn't work out it'll be a cheap lesson.

I received the frame today, and I'm pleasantly surprised. The welds aren't super pretty, but I've seen worse on big name brand bikes. I don't own a scale but I'm guestimating the weight between 5-7 pounds. The head tube and bottom bracket shell are both faced and chased and ready for building. The rear triangle has clearance for a 42mm tire (I was shocked at just how much clearance there is), the only limiting factor there will be the brake caliper, not the frame. THe seat tube will take a 27.2mm post without any slop. The frame even has bosses for downtube shifters for those who want a more classic look.

I'll be building this frame up with Microshift 2x10 speed STI and derailleurs, FSA headset,IRD square taper BB, Sugino XD2 compact crank (I'll be replacing the 50T with a 46T), 12-28 Tiagra cassette, and Diacomp brake calipers (temporary). I've got a set of cheap wheels that'll do for now, and I'll be using 28mm or 32mm tires. I'm still waiting for my fork to arrive (4130 steel, chromed, 43mm rake)

This isn't a racing bike and should not be confused with one. I'm hoping this will turn out a nice riding commuter. Pictures will come soon.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Well, my fork came in, and the FSA headset installed with no hitches. Bottom bracket installed easily once I remembered which direction the threads go. The Diacomp brake calipers are a hair short (they can work but there's no adjustment room), so I'm gonna wait for the budget to allow buying a more appropriate set. Gotta pick up a bunch of little stuff I don't have any extras of in the parts box (crank bolts, seat post binder, etc..), and get some bar tape. It'll be a couple of weeks before I get everything done, but so far it looks like this experiment will be fairly decent.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

This is a labor of love. Definitely a test in patience but once complete, you will have that warm fuzzy feeling of a DIY that will make you love riding your bike all that more. And the best thing is it's not costing you much except time.

Best of luck!


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Thanks. As for what it'll be like once finished, it'll be something similar to the Motobecane Gran Premio, except without any of the decals, and a chrome steel fork (check it out at BD's site for the visual concept). Best part is that if at some point I decide to get a "good" frame, everything should swap straight across.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Got a new set of Miche mid-reach calipers on the way, along with some various small parts. Once they arrive the bike will be ride-able, although not complete aesthetically. That'll have to wait until I get the fit dialed in, then I can buy the correct length stem in chrome/polished aluminum and get the 46T chain ring.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Got the Miche calipers and replaced the pivot bolt to fit the fork (see Caliper Pivot Bolt Replacement thread in Components/Wrenching forum). I had to order crank fixing bolts for the IRD BB I installed. I've loose fitted the crank arms onto the BB with the bolts in (not torqued yet), so I could put the front derailleur and braze-on mounting clamp on at the right height. Only needed to use a couple of rubber shim strips (from old clamp on reflectors) to get a proper fit to the seat tube (glad I didn't waste the money for Shimano's aluminum shims). Brain farted and never bought downtube cable stops for the shifter bosses, so still gotta wait before cabling.
The Miche calipers have clearance for 45mm tires :shocked:, so while I'll eventually go to 28mm tires, I think I'll give the 45mm I have in the shed a try for a start. Steel frame with 45's? Should ride real smooth. I'm hoping I can have her ready in another week or so if work schedule allows me time to get to the LBS for the last parts I need to finish.


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## Whacked (Feb 14, 2011)

I havent used cable crimps in years. Coat the end in superglue. Keeps the strands from unraveling.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

I've used super glue before, when I didn't have any ferrules.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Got the last of the parts either on order or on the way, so I'll be set soon. Among other things are a set of Wellgo W-41's. Chose them for the SPD compatibility, and cost (@ $22). Also a set of Vee Rubber 28mm tires. I've used some on my mtb, and they've held up outstandingly. Pictures will be posted upon completion.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

All cabled up now. Rear shifting is actuating within 1/4 turn of the cranks, still working on smoothing out front shifting (it's shifting, just not to my standard....yet). Just waiting for my tires and pedals, and wrap the bars, and this'll be done.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Here's a couple pictures of the bike on the stand. Only things left are the pedals and tires, both of which I should have in a couple days.
































Didn't bother with the normal posing conventions (chain on big/small, crank in line with down tube, in front of the white garage door), since she isn't complete yet.


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## Dresden (May 26, 2009)

Looks good. I bet it rides nicely.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Dresden said:


> Looks good. I bet it rides nicely.


I bet it will ride better with pedals and tires. 

Nice project.


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## Dresden (May 26, 2009)

I was intending to be predictive, but you do have a point.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Well, pedals just showed up a half hour ago (during supper no less), so just waiting on tires. The Wellgo's are smaller than I expected, so I may wind up swapping them out for the A530's I have on my other bike.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

What is your total cost when all's said and done?


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Frame = $94
Fork = $45
Bars =$14
Stem =$16
Headset = $22
Seatpost = $16
Bottom Bracket = $24
Crank Bolts =$6
Crankset = $35
Brakes+Pivot bolt = $40
Pedals = $22
Wheels (2011) = $99
Shifters+Derailleurs ([email protected]) = $170
Cassette+chain = $25
Saddle = $10
Small parts (misc) = $25
Tires (both) = $32

Total = $695 (+/-)

I had some of the parts (like the wheels and shift kit) before I started the project. I spent more than was strictly necessary on a few parts (like the seat post and stem) for the look I wanted, and because I didn't think some stuff through (like the downtube cable guides). I could have knocked off maybe $50 on buy deals had I thought it all through before starting. Kinda happy on the outcome though, compared to BikesDirect Gran Premio, mine's $5 cheaper and almost no logos at all (the few there are are small and non-obnoxious).


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

My tires finally came in, so of course I forgot that my wheels need a longer stem than my other bike wheels (33mm stems barely clear the rim). So gotta get tubes before I can ride her for real.


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## CliffordK (Jun 6, 2014)

Your bike is looking nice.

It is amazing how quickly the "little things" add up. It looks like you did well with your parts purchases, and still have a $700 bicycle.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Sad part is I still could have done it cheaper and faster. I didn't buy anything used, all new parts except for what I already had. There's still a couple of bikes out there of similar build that are the same or cheaper. But at least this one's mine.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Now I have to add $19 for a 46T chainring I just ordered. Was hoping my LBS would have one (they're pretty good at having what I need), but nope, so Ribble gets the cash. 46/34 x 12-28 will be plenty for my riding needs. Someday I might toss the 50T back on, then again, maybe not.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Spent today dialing in fit and fine tuning, and learned you can't assume that what works on paper will work for real. Mounted the tires and realized that the way I had shimmed the FD clamp will interfere with the rear wheel. Had to rework the shims in the clamp so all the shim material is in front of the seat tube. Doing that caused me to have to completely reset the FD, which for me has always been a PITA. Feeling joyous knowing I'm gonna do it again when the 46T ring gets here (insert sarcastic voice tone here).

Wound up having to use a double seat post clamp like this (except in black);







I use one on my MTN bike as well, didn't expect to need it here since the fit of the post in the frame was so tight. At least with it there, that post won't slip at all. Ever.

The Vee Rubber tires (Roundner 28mm, 72 TPI, wire bead) mounted up real easy (once I had them in the right direction), no levers needed, and seated into the rims with no hassles at all. Inflated to @ 90 psi for now and felt decent on a quick shake down ride (less than 3 miles as the thunder was rumbling).

Having had mostly heavy bikes most of my life, this is the first light (to me) bike I'll be riding on a regular basis, feels a little weird. I'm guessing it's around 22-23#'s -/+ 1 or 2, and it accelerated fast. A lot faster than I expected, even with the less than great wheels (gonna have to overhaul the hubs soon).


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

O.k. here she is, built up and ready for duty. Only thing missing is the 46T big ring, I expect it next week but visually there's almost mo difference.

































The rack is a Carradice Bagman 2 with the quick release clamp, an outstanding piece of gear. If you don't like backpacks but still need to take a bag, this is an excellent alternative. The lights are MagicShine Mj-816 and MJ-818 respectively. Also great pieces of gear that have given a couple years of service with zero hassles.

I plan on changing out the jockey wheels later (maybe red) for aluminum, for a bit of bling. Gotta work on my bar wrapping skills as well but it'll do for now.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

46T ring finally showed up, got hung up in customs. Think I'll hold off for now, I'm gonna give the 50T ring a month or two or riding to see if it'll be worth the swap. Gonna overhaul the hubs in a couple of weeks. Wheels feel smooth, but haven't been serviced in quite some time even though they've been sitting in the parts bin. I've got about 100 miles on her since finishing and riding the same routes as my other bike, this one is MUCH faster (25 mile loop completed consistently 10-15 minutes sooner). Only true issue is getting shifter housing to optimal length (still trimming 1-2 cm at a time). I could have gotten it figured out far sooner, but it gives me something to tinker with.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Update. I swapped the rear derailleur from the longer cage to a short cage MS Centos. Might just be my imagination but the shifts feel a little more crisp. Also changed from the included shift cables to Ultegra shift cables and housing. Between the two changes, the shifting action is as close to perfect as I've ever felt on any bike (not that I have such vast riding experience). I also added a second layer of bar tape on the tops, which made a significant improvement in hand comfort to the point that I stopped wearing padded gloves. I also had swapped the stem for a shorter one (80mm), now I don't feel like I'm reaching too far. Amazing what 20mm can do.

Had one flat on the rear since building the bike, an obvious puncture from a nail, but the Vee Rubber tires continue to perform well for me. Also had to replace the MagicShine headlight, but after almost 3 years I got my money's worth. Bought a $20 Solar Storm X2 light head, and it's getting the job done. I might not bother buying another MagicShine light head because the Solar Storm is performing so well. A great flood pattern and nice side spread even on the lowest setting.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Update

It appears that the CFG cro-mo frame I bought off Amazon is now being sold by Nashbar under their own name. Can't be 100% sure without seeing one in person, but the pictures show an identical (to me at least) frame. All measurements and size increments are the same as well. At $100 it's still a good deal.


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## Aladin (Oct 5, 2014)

Did same with a Nashbar al frame 3 yrs back.. employing mostly NOS (wear items) and used parts. Dimension steel fork 1" using reduction cups.. bike road super-- 8/16 speed flat bar. Paint, welds and fits were spot on. Came in at $345.. which I easily retrieved when it left... sans that fork which now resides on my 60cm Reynolds 853 Peleton. 

In Nash frame one gets a bargain.


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## AlexCad5 (Jan 2, 2005)

junior1210 said:


> I came across this frame while shopping for other stuff,
> Amazon.com : CFG Cycle Force Cro-mo Road Frame, 58cm/X-Large, Black : Sports & Outdoors
> and figured to give it a shot, since for less than $100 if it doesn't work out it'll be a cheap lesson.


Did you check out that geometry before you put down your $79 - a truly remarkable price! AND free shipping.

On the "54" it has a 58cm top tube, and a 74.5 degree seat tube. That is seriously stretched out!


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

I'm inclined to believe that the person who put the details on Amazon don't understand what those details actually mean, thus putting the wrong details there. If you look at all the frame sizes, the top tube length only varies by at most 3cm between the 50cm frame and the 60cm frame. There's no way anybody could ride a 50cm frame with a 57cm top tube without arms like a gorilla. I worked with the theory that the frame size is akin to the top tube size, thus ordering a 58cm frame. I'm currently using an 80mm stem, so I might have done as well with the 56cm and used a 120mm stem. In any case though, I'm very happy with the frame and the way it has performed for me to this point. For a steel budget build, I don't know that you could do better than this frame.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

You've really inspired me with this build. I too need a commuter bike that I can throw on CalTrain and not worry too much about the odd scratch. Simply plunking down some cash for what they advertise as "commuter" bikes just didn't seem too exciting.

My frame is expected on Monday. I've just finished ordering most of the parts I need - like yours, mine will have a lot of "bin" parts and end up with quite a mish-mash of stuff, but I'll try to make it work. For example, my son just got a power meter crank set-up, so his old Dura Ace crank is up for grabs - grabbed it. I had a spare Shimano bottom bracket left over from something - can't remember...The handle bar is a Pro Vibe with a Pro Vibe stem that's probably too long, the wheels will be either Fulcrum Racing 7, or Campagnolo Zonda's - our current training wheels. Got a good deal on some Ultegra shifters, so FD and RD will be Ultegra as well. Had to order a seat post, but have a couple spare saddles. One of them should work. I have some 25mm Gatorskins - I'll try those first, but may go wider if road conditions are really bad.

The ride is 1.5 miles on one end of the train ride and about 4 miles on the other, and I start in earnest in January. Meanwhile I'm really looking forward to the build of this "Frankensteed". I realize it will not be the cheapest thing around, but I'm doing this mainly for the fun of it and still keep the investment to something more reasonable.

Thanks for all your helpful notes and thorough build description. I'll try to document mine as I go along as well - maybe I should start a new thread...


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Throw it on here if you want, since it's the same frame, variations in execution will add to the knowledge base. As far as tire size goes, there's room for CX tires if you want 'em. I'm using a 28mm tire that actually measures 29.7mm at ~80psi on a 20mm rim, front and rear. The only problem you might have is mounting the front derailleur. The seat tube takes a 31.8mm clamp for the post, but for the derailleur clamp, it was smaller (28.5mm IIRC), so be prepared to add shims.

Good luck, I look forward to seeing how you build her up.:thumbsup:


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

Thanks for the heads-up on that one. I see you used rubber shims to get yours to fit - any issues with the derailleur wiggling? I ordered the hard shims from Shimano - hopefully I'll get it to fit considering the issues you had with tire clearance. Another issue for me might be brakes. I have spare set of Shimano 105 brakes that have been gathering dust, but I wonder if the reach will be long enough. The front should be OK, I am getting a (cheap) carbon road fork, but I'm wondering about the rear. 

Anyway, more on all this as the parts start trickling in...


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

No problems with movement, but I'm keeping an eye on it. Also some of my issues came from jury rigging a solution. Your 105s should be OK. I used mid-reach brakes since the fork needed them, IIRC the rear was fine.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

So here we go - frame arrived today (as did a few other bits). Wanted to document the packaging. As you mentioned in a previous post, this fame is now sold by Nashbar. I ordered from Amazon, but one of the the labels on the outside of the outside box as well as the only label on the inside box clearly identified this as a Nashbar item.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

As you mentioned, the frame is actually not bad at all. I added a few pieces I had in hand, and while I was messing with the bottom bracket, the UPS man came and brought a few other things - seat post, down tube cable stops, head set, and some ferrules I had ordered.

The only problem I encountered putting it all on was that the right hand side boss for the cable stop had not been threaded all that well, and it took a bit of chamfering out the very end before I could thread a screw into it. Probably OK as is, but I'll take it all out again and add some Loctite to make sure I don't lose these. In hindsight it would have been better to chase the thread with a proper M5x2.5 thread cutting tool, but I don't have one handy and hey - it's a commuter...


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

I'll add a few pictures of the bottom bracket and my son's used but usable crank set, as well as the temporary seat post (no seat post clamp yet) and the saddle I plan to use. I also added a picture of the rear brake installed - I just wanted to see if everything sort of lines up, and it looks very promising so far. More on this as more pieces trickle in. Next challenge is the head set. I have a bearing press, but it's not quite long enough to do both sides of this head tube all at once. I could probably do it one side at a time, or I could finally break down and buy a proper headset press. I'll think about this....probably not the last bike I ever build...


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Looking good so far. A Dura-Ace crank might be better than the frame deserves though. Instead of a 'proper' headset press, I used a large C clamp (16" IIRC) and a small bubble level. The level might have been overkill, but ensured I pressed in the cups evenly. Best part was I know I'll have a use for the clamp for other projects, where as the press is pretty much bike exclusive. Then again a threaded rod, 4 bolts, 2 large body work washers can make a workable press also.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

Yes, I have one of those bolt gizmos, problem is, it's just a little too short. It was good enough for the BB30 bearings on the G5 I built a couple years ago, but this head tube is just about 15mm too tall. I don't have a C clamp that's large enough either. I guess X-mas is coming, and while this year the goose might not be getting fat, a new tool might be just what would look good under the tree.

I hear you about the DA overkill, but you don't look a gift horse in the BB...Free and already here beats out "matched" and "politically correct" any day - LOL!

I'm hoping some more bits will show up today. Can't wait to try the FD mount/tire clearance situation...just checked the tracking and most things are "in transit"...


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

Well the only useful (or not) thing that came today is a seat post clamp, and now I know why you had to get the Gorilla Park one. This thing (31.8mm) even completely closed down will not hold the seat post. A shim of some sort around the seat post might be a temporary solution, but sine I don't have most of the other bits yet anyway, I'll wait until the double clamp arrives...


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

On mine, the post collar I originally used would tighten down, but it would slip a hair at a time ( 1/4 inch every so often). A week later it would be too low for comfort, so I used the Gorilla Park clamp since I had it in the parts bin (almost forgotten). It was a plus that it isn't a quick release (to keep the jerks from messing with my saddle). Maybe some carbon paste (instead of grease) would stop the slip?


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

On this one it slips more than a hair at a time. Tightened all the way you can still turn the seat by hand quite easily. I haven't tried to push down on it too hard, butI imagine it would just simply slip down into the tube with any weight on it at all. I looked at the top of the seat tube and it looks like it is actually fluted outward at the top. Might have happened while they were cutting the relief slot in the back. So now what happens is the clamp pushes the flute back to its original shape, but the contact area between the top of the seat tube and the seat post is still confined to mostly the front of the seat tube. The Gorilla Park clamp will probably work just fine as it has two separate clamping areas, one for the seat post and one for the tube. Should be here in a few days...

Meanwhile I'm trying to decide which wheels I'm going to use on this. I have two sets that are 11 speed compatible, a set of Campagnolo Zonda's (yes 11 sp Shimano free hub), and a set of Fulcrum 7's. My son is currently using the Campy's on his bike as his training wheels. Maybe I'll mount the rear wheel (no fork yet) and just see how it looks. And maybe some more pieces will show up today...


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Go for the Campy's.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

*[First Major Glitch*: So tonight I encountered the first major glitch with the frame. Just to see how things would line up, I mounted a wheel and noticed two things: The first is that the spacing for the rear axle is really not quite 130mm, but maybe 2 or 3 mm less. Had to kind of force the wheel in there, but it went relatively OK (it's steel and flexes nicely). Secondly, as you saw in one of my prior pictures, I had already installed the rear brake. Well lo and behold, the brake rubs on the tire! Turns out the hole for the brake bolt in the connector part of the seat stays is not tangential to the wheel at that point, but slanted back a couple of degrees (maybe three or four?) causing the brake calipers to rub on the top of the tire. Loosening the bolt (or the nut rather) makes the wheel spin more easily, but as soon as I tighten it, it rubs. I enclose a couple of pix to illustrate. Not sure how I'm going to get around this one. A couple of things come to mind. One is to insert a long(ish) threaded steel rod, tighten it from both sides with nuts and washers, and try to simply bend the beast into submission. Problem there is that the connecting piece is rather short, and it might really compromise the welds on both sides. Last thing I need is losing a brake on my way down the hill to the train station. Second option is to take somewhat thicker washer and grind a taper on it, so that it just compensates. That might take care of the brake caliper assembly, but then what about the nut on the inside pushing against only part of the inside hole enlargement? Perhaps OK if I don't over tighten it? Last option is to declare the frame "defective" and send it back, but I'm not sure I would get anything better in exchange, at least not anytime soon. So what do you think?


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

Personally, I would opt for sending it back with detailed explanation on the defect and ask them to check the exchange one for such defect before shipping it out (if you are going for the exchange).

I've bought 2 bike frames from Nashbar and they are good about return & exchange.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

Yes, this one was through Amazon, and they've always been good about return/exchange as well. I'm just wondering if they have any way to check - seems these things come boxed up from China through Nashbar and on to an Amazon distribution center. I somehow doubt that there are people anywhere in this chain that have a clue about a bike build...

On the other hand, you're right - they sold it, it doesn't work as intended/advertised - they should at least replace it. What do I do if the replacement has the same defect? I need a ride by January...


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

OK, so I just created my return label on line - easy. They say a replacement order has been created. I have until January 16 to return the old frame. I think I'll wait until the new one gets here before sending this one back - it could be the better one of the two!

A little more waiting to see if this can really work. Glad that junior had a good experience (as had some others buying the frame through Nashbar), but hey, for 80 bucks its worth messing about a little if it can result in a usable ride. More as it unfolds....


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

I agree with sending it back. I didn't have anything like that with my frame. The only thing that came even close to being a problem was paint being a little sloppy near threaded bits (like the BB shell). It might be worth taking another shot, simply because the frame is so inexpensive, but you might want to think about getting it from Nashbar. I would think that they'd insist on a certain level of QC since their name is on it, and they've got a good reputation on selling frames.

If these frames don't work for you, I'd look at Ribble's 525 Audax frame. That was my original intent until I stumbled across these. Also Origin8 does a steel CX frame that could work for you (@ $300 IIRC).


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

I'm sure there are alternatives that could work. Perhaps a little more expensive, but still more reasonable than buying a complete bike. The bits and pieces (and tools!) I've gathered and am still expecting should all transfer to a different frame - for the most part anyway. Well, they say a replacement is on its way. Waiting until Monday....

Maybe I'll tackle a fixie next - doesn't everyone need one of those?


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Experiment? I think it's a great idea for a commuter bike, no experimentation needed! Nice parts selection, low cost yet effective. 

The biggest concern you'll have with any commuter bike no matter of cost is flats, get a set of nice flat resistant tires like Specialized Armadillo All Condition, or Conti Gatorskin Hardshell (not the Gatorskin without the Hardshell ending) along with a Panaracer FlatAway liner in the rear tire (rear because most flats occur there and it takes longer to repair on the road).


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

Well, judging from my experience with this frame, it does seem to be a bit of an experiment. The replacement frame will be here Monday, and then we'll see if this was a fluke or not. Keeping my fingers crossed....


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

*Replacement frame!*

Well, miracles do happen, and the replacement frame showed up today! Didn't have too much time to play with it, but I did determine that there is no problem with the rear brake on this one.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

I was also able to determine that there is no problem with tire clearance between the rear wheel and the FD with the shim (only used the front portion of the two-piece metal shim).

And for good measure, I pressed in the cups for the headset, put in the bottom bracket and mounted the crank. Only problem now is that I still don't have the shifters (on their way from the UK), and that I've discovered that there was no top bearing cover included in the headset (or perhaps I mislaid it somewhere), but a new one is on its way and should be here Monday.

No work on this tomorrow - I'll be on a team ride with my son's bike team, but back at it Monday after work.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

Oh, one more thing - I mounted the rear derailleur, but before I did, I checked the alignment (I have one of those tools), and it was substantially off. I bent it back (thank goodness for steel frames!) the best I could, and it should now be just fine. With the medium cage derailleur that I'm using, this is quite an important step. No pictures of that - sorry...


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

A bent hanger happens to everybody, so I wouldn't count that one. Glad that the replacement frame was up to scratch. My problem with shimming the FD, was that I had put the shims around the seat tube equally, instead of up front like you show on yours. I had room to spin the wheel freely, but I had maybe 2-3mm of space between the tire and the clamp. After remounting and readjusting I have as much room as you do now.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

Not too much new today, I had expected some more bits. The only things I did today was install some better cable stops (Origin8) and install a temporary fix for the seat post clamp issue - ugly as he.. but it works...


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

It never occoured to me to try using a clamp like that. How well does it work? It is ugly, but might be a plausible emergency stopgap option.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

I don't know how it would hold up under actual riding conditions, but at least here in the shop it holds well enough for me to adjust seat position, angle, etc. without slipping. Everything else I tried so far (Gorilla clamp is at the post office), doesn't hold even under stationary use. I'm 6'1'' and 185 lbs. Hoping to get the clamp and the shifters today, so I can finally get this thing to the testing stage. We've had beautiful weather the last few days.

Merry Christmas!


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

The Gorilla clamp will do the job. I'm @240 at 6'2", and it doesn't slip. Ever. Got one on my 29er as well.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

Two additions that showed up Christmas eve - the gorilla park seat post clamp, and the new Cane Creek headset. Both installed without a hitch and seem to be working great.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

I'm eager to see the complete bike. I've been contemplating a carbon/alloy fork to swap out from the steel. It'll be nice to have a good idea of what she'd look like before tossing another $100 into the mix.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

Well, here are a couple pix as she is so far. No shifters yet, so major work yet to be done. The tires are the 25 mm Gatorskins that have been on these wheels for a while. I have some 28's I want to put on later today. The pedals are left over from one of our road bikes, but I'm re-thinking the entire pedal/shoe/clip issue. I may opt for something standard SPD compatible as well, so I could perhaps get away with not changing shoes when I arrive at work.

I'm also re-thingking the geometry a bit. Right now the setup is pretty slammed, following my road bike pattern, but I may flip the stem and get a bit more upright for commuting purposes. Once the shifters get here, I'll have a better idea of what it feels like.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

eschummer said:


> I may opt for something standard SPD compatible as well, so I could perhaps get away with not changing shoes when I arrive at work.


You may want to look into spd & platform combo pedals. Nashbar, Performance and Wellgo have those models at good price.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

Thanks for the tip. I think junior used Wellgo's as well in the initial build..Now to find some decent looking SPD compatible shoes...


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

eschummer said:


> Thanks for the tip. I think junior used Wellgo's as well in the initial build..Now to find some decent looking SPD compatible shoes...


Although from 2012, this may give you some ideas on pedals that can go both ways.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

So a couple of updates from today. First I have a couple of pix of a cute gizmo that Santa dropped into a spare sock. The butter b1 chain keeper replaces the rear wheel to hold the chain in place while the wheel is off. You can spin the cranks, inspect things, work on stuff, etc. without worrying about the chain chewing on your lovely carbon frame clear coat . Oh wait! This one's cheap steel, so why give a sh..,? Well, since its already in the toolbox to keep the other bike looking good, why not? 

OK next to the tires. I got a pair of 28mm Continental touring tires thinking they would be better for rough pavement one might encounter on a typical commute run. Good tread, nice thick (and heavy!) wall construction, puncture resistance up the gazoo..

Well, try to get those suckers mounted! Holy crap! I've been mounting regular clincher tires by hand pretty much my entire adult cycling life (almost six years!) - my own as well as other peoples', such as on group rides. Never had such a struggle. Busted two perfectly good Park Tool tire levers trying to get that rear tire on! Finally got it on, and happy to report (whew!) that there is no problem with clearance anywhere. Haven't mounted the front yet, need a couple hours break before I try that again! Although I suspect the front might go a little easier (lower rim height). I'll let you know whenI get to that point....


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

eschummer said:


> Thanks for the tip. I think junior used Wellgo's as well in the initial build..Now to find some decent looking SPD compatible shoes...


My original pedals were Wellgo W-41's (SPD road pedals), but felt a little too small so I swapped to Shimano A530s. I'm using Giro Republic shoes. These shoes are the cat's @ss. Feel great, look awesome (in an old school, real shoe way), and very walkable. Kinda irritated that they now are available in true leather and not just in simulated leather. I still like mine, but would have coughed up for a real leather shoe had they been around.

I like that B1 keeper. I would have used it for sure had I had one when doing my build. The only other advice for your build is to use cheap housing when initially setting up the cabling. It took several trims to get it right, and they (housing) got a little chewed by the time they were optimal length. I had planned to swap to decent cable/housing anyway (Ultegra cables/housing), but using the cheap stuff for the set-up was a good thing.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

Somehow in the back of my mind I had these A530's stored away as well, and just last night ordered a pair through Amazon. Thanks for confirming! 

I have been looking at all sort of shoes, Giro Republic's among them, also the new Specialized Cadet's seem pretty interesting, but nobody around here has my size in stock yet so I could go and try them on.

I hear you on the cabling. I like to leave enough slack in front so that I can change my mind about the stem and spacer height if necessary. This one might have near the maximum on the initial build, and I can then trim to what I finally end up with. I'm kind of anal about the look being close to symmetrical from the front. I also like to use the California cross and not have double housing bends in the cockpit area. Alas - no shifters yet, so this will have to wait...


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

So, after getting the from tire on - much easier than the back, although I used some help with talcum powder on the inner tube and the inside of the tire (and all over me!).

Anyway, end result is here as she stands today. Yet to come are the shifters with all the cabling. A lot of work, although I've been known to completely re-cable a bike in under 2 hours. Not quite a fair comparison because there are simply lengths of housing to copy and install.

Just for kicks I also included a picture of our current stable, from right to left, my son's Leopard DC1, my trusty Holland Exogrid, the current WIP, and the two ladies' bikes, the last one being rented out regularly on "Spinlister"...


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Looking good. I think you're gonna enjoy that frame as much as I enjoy mine.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

She's done! Happy New Year!


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## IAmHolland (Jun 8, 2012)

junior1210 said:


> Update
> 
> It appears that the CFG cro-mo frame I bought off Amazon is now being sold by Nashbar under their own name. Can't be 100% sure without seeing one in person, but the pictures show an identical (to me at least) frame. All measurements and size increments are the same as well. At $100 it's still a good deal.


I bought the Nashbar cro-mo CX frame to build as a commuter, and it looks similar to the CFG CX frame on Amazon. That said, it's not what I expected. It's a mix of HiTen and not 100% cro-mo. The 54cm frame weighs 7lbs by itself, and would weigh more than the 1990 Rockhopper I am currently using. I was severely disappointed in the advertising, but it was cheap and not worth returning for a huge loss on shipping both ways and sales tax. I'm not going to build it, as a true cro-mo frame and fork is not much more expensive, and lighter even if it's not butted.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

eschummer said:


> She's done! Happy New Year!


Congrats! That is one expensive looking commuter bike. BTW, I have the exact same seat post on my commuter (CX) bike.


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## aa.mclaren (Jun 25, 2008)

Interesting thread. I note that you are having a bit of an ordeal getting the Continental tires on those Campagnolo wheels, that's always one of the tighter combinations out there (I have had far better luck with Vredestein, Vittoria and Hutchinson). Michelins can also be a tight fit though I hear Schwalbe tires are reasonably easy to insall as well. I would recommend getting a VAR tire-jack style lever if you want to have an easier time with the Contis or any other tight fitting tire of your preference:

VAR Tyre Levers RP-42500 - £7.50

Works like a charm. Happy New Year!


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

eschummer said:


> She's done! Happy New Year!


Beautifully and well done!

Happy New Year.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

That's a durn good job there. With the 'murdered' look, it doesn't seem like it's a low dollar steel frame. I think you're gonna get a lot of good miles on her, and get some good mileage out from 'my cheap steel' story too.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

IAmHolland said:


> I bought the Nashbar cro-mo CX frame to build as a commuter, and it looks similar to the CFG CX frame on Amazon. That said, it's not what I expected. It's a mix of HiTen and not 100% cro-mo. The 54cm frame weighs 7lbs by itself, and would weigh more than the 1990 Rockhopper I am currently using. I was severely disappointed in the advertising, but it was cheap and not worth returning for a huge loss on shipping both ways and sales tax. I'm not going to build it, as a true cro-mo frame and fork is not much more expensive, and lighter even if it's not butted.


It looked like they had also co-opted the cx frame and the touring frame as well. The cx frame, from all accounts, was a total flop. I guess they didn't do a good job of building them and were crap. I hadn't seen any reviews on the touring frame at all. The road frame, as you can see, is a viable option (although not perfect) for a low budget bike. Like I stated in my original post, I built a bike for commuting and JRA. She's not a race bike and shouldn't be confused for one. Lighter can be better, but the little extra weight doesn't hurt me at all, and I'd say that anybody seriously considering this frame isn't concerned about getting the lightest frame.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

Thanks for that ip! Looks like it would work just fine. I got something else in the meantime which some might find useful. It's a tire lever that somewhat resembles whet they use for automobile tires. If it doesn't break, it should do quite well.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

So here we are, New Year's day, and out for the first ride. A quick 30 km shake-down ride on roads I know quite well. I haven't bought any spd style shoes yet, and just went riding with in adidas running shoes. I haven't been on a bike with disconnected feet in such a long time, it took a bit of getting used to (you don't have to unclip to put your foot down!).

First of all, this thing is certainly no lightweight, but not as massive as I had feared. All-up weight, including lights, Garmin, and bottle holder is right at 24 pounds. 

Riding it, it feels a little on the heavy side when trying to accelerate, but once you get going it is as smooth as it gets. I love the way it handles rough pavement! It handles well through turns, and overall seems very well balanced. I adjusted the critical measurements to be identical to my "good" bike (or as close as I could get them), and it feels very comfortable to ride in all hand positions. It doesn't climb quite as well as my other bike, but one wouldn't expect that. I haven't tried any serious climbs yet, but the few I would have to do every day coming home it handles nicely. 

Someone mentioned that the end result is probably not really cheap, but after today I can say that this thing easily rivals some quite expensive bikes. Except for the aspect of climbing and accelerating spontaneously, it is as much fun to ride as my mega$ custom built Holland. I haven't added up all the cost yet, but will do so by the end of the day and post, so you can get an idea.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

OK, so I added it all up, and all told I stuck more than $ 770 into this thing, and many of the bits I already had, so the cost of those is not really accounted for. But I also enjoyed building it, and best of all, I really enjoy riding it. Shifting is buttery smooth, and it does everything I would expect from it.

There are a few areas where I splurged and could have saved significantly. For example, I popped for a $56 Cane Creek headset - a much cheaper one would have done the job as well. But I had trouble with the $15 FSA I had at first, wanted to return it, and they just gave me my money back without wanting the headset returned. Another "splurge" was adopting my son's Dura Ace crank set - the consequence of that then led me down the path of Ultegra 11 speed everything else. I splurged on really good lights - Blackburn re-chargable front and back. Again something less than the $75 I spent would have done.

At the end of the day I have something I'm really happy with, something I want to ride and not just have around for a rainy day. And something I don't feel bad about putting on a crowded commuter train.....


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

That's what I'm talking about, a bike(frame) you can ride and enjoy, but aren't fretting over a scratch and what not. You can buy such bikes, but I'm glad I built mine.


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## gandude (Jan 9, 2015)

Thanks to the OP,

You have inspired me to go ahead and build my 1st bike. Posts to follow.

FYI the same frame is available on Amazon for ~$44 in 56cm.

-Glen


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

junior1210 said:


> Got a new set of Miche mid-reach calipers on the way,


Are they just rebranded Tektro?


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

gandude said:


> Thanks to the OP,
> 
> You have inspired me to go ahead and build my 1st bike. Posts to follow.
> 
> ...


Not surprised. Now that I've bought and built mine, the price drops by half. Happens every time.:cryin:



cs1 said:


> Are they just rebranded Tektro?


As far as I know, Miche makes their own stuff. They are very similar to Tektro, but even if they were the same, I still would have bought the Miche's. Why? A 30% cost difference everywhere I looked. I needed the cost savings to cover the cost of modifying the pivot bolt on the front brake. I still find it hard to believe how much 1 bolt can cost ($11-$30 depending on the vendor). The Miche's have performed perfectly up to this point, and meshed well with the MicroShift levers. Modulation has been as nice as I could ask for, with 0 hassles in set up or adjustment after set up. Should I need to buy another set, they'll be at the top of my list.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

Still a small part of the overall cost...I'm happy with mine..


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## gandude (Jan 9, 2015)

Well, don't have the frame yet but ordered most of the parts.

Shimano 105 groupset 5800 black
Chrome CroMo Nashbar fork 1 1/8"
FSA Orbit MX headset (is this correct for a road bike?)

...Having a problem typing here on both computers -slow keyboard response. I will try later.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

You should be able to use any 1 1/8" traditional headset.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

I started off with an FSA and ended up using a Cane Creek. Both fit just fine, but the CC is a better quality head set. Nothing against FSA' s in general - I use lots of FSA stuff - just that particular example.....


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## gandude (Jan 9, 2015)

Started the build on the bike. A few problems though.

1) the mounting bolt on the rear brake caliper is not long enough, 105 5800. Can this be swapped? It seems to be aligned with wheel though.

2) rear cassette mount on wheel will not hold all 11 cogs, just 10. Forte wheels from performance bike. What would a decent wheelset be that will work?

3) what can I use to set the crown race on the fork? the cups went in with no trouble.

4) I am 6'. Will this 56cm frame be big enough for me? ...It looks too small.

5) this forum is hard to post on. it randomly misses keys I type in 50% of the time!

Thank you for the help!

-Glen


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## gandude (Jan 9, 2015)

Duh, don't have a brake problem. I found the nut! Scratch #1 above.

But...does the aluminum washer go between the caliper and frame?


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

Yes, the washer goes between the caliper and the frame.

To your other points: I'm also 6'0" and have the 58 and it is just right for me, but mostly because I need the long top tube. As it is, I still have a 140 mm stem. You might be OK with the 56 if you can make the saddle height work and don't have orangutang arms like mine.

Don't know what to say about typing on here. Seems to work OK for me, with the occasional spell-check glitch..

Good luck!

The wheels - I feel into the same trap - bought a set of 2013 Bontrager wheels on CG, and they tuned out to only take a 10 speed cassette. If you don't already have all the 11 speed stuff (sounds like you may have bought all 5800?) 10 speed is just fine. If not, a usable set of 11 speed wheels (new) will still set you back $ 2 - 300.

Crown races can be set with a piece of pvc pipe of the right diameter. An end cap helps so you can whack your happier against something.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

gandude said:


> Started the build on the bike. A few problems though.
> 
> 1) the mounting bolt on the rear brake caliper is not long enough, 105 5800. Can this be swapped? It seems to be aligned with wheel though.
> 
> ...


1) I know you said you fixed the problem but check out this thread. Works for front and rear brakes, and is good to know. http://forums.roadbikereview.com/co...ke-caliper-pivot-bolt-replacement-327860.html

2) Gonna need more info before giving a good answer to that question, but check out Bicycle Wheel Warehouse or Velomine for decent wheels at a reasonable price. Might also want to research if you can just swap the cassette body on your wheels before buying a new set.

3) PVC or a copper pipe of correct diameter will work, or a punch and deadfall hammer will work but is much harder. The hammer and punch method takes patience and you gotta be real careful to tap gently so as not to mar the race or your fork.

4) I'm 6'1" and have a 58cm frame, but I'm using an 80mm stem. You can use a 56cm frame, you'll likely need to use a longer stem (say 120-140mm) and you'll have a good bit of seat post exposed. At worst, you may need an offset seat post to get the correct position over your pedals, which should (but no promises) keep your stem from being too long.

5) The only problems I have on this forum are my own terrible typing and spelling skills.


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## gandude (Jan 9, 2015)

Thank you Junior1210 !, and
Thank you Eschummer !

Ordered Shimano Ultegra 6800 wheels. (I need to take cheap out of this thread!)

Thank you, you two.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

What I don't understand is why the Shimano (105) WHR501-30-S wheels are more aero than the Ultegra WH6800 wheels? I would think Ultegra design would be more aero and lighter which in the weight department Ultegra is the lighter of the two by about 200 grams per wheel, (but I'm sure most of that weight is the fact that the 105 rs30s series is 30 mm vs only 24 mm for the Ultegra in rim height).


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## aa.mclaren (Jun 25, 2008)

gandude said:


> Thank you Junior1210 !, and
> Thank you Eschummer !
> 
> Ordered Shimano Ultegra 6800 wheels. (I need to take cheap out of this thread!)
> ...


Excellent choice, you can run tubeless. That IMO will make your "cheap' ride into something that effectively feels like something costing twice as much or more, and perform almost as well, too. To say nothing of pothole proofing your commuting experience, if you use the tire sealant as well. Could prevent a few pinch flats during the year on your way to and from work, totally worth it.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

gandude said:


> Thank you Junior1210 !, and
> Thank you Eschummer !
> 
> Ordered Shimano Ultegra 6800 wheels. (I need to take cheap out of this thread!)
> ...


You're welcome. Cheap is a relative word. For me it's sub $800, others it's sub $1200, and still others it's sub $3000. Whatever works for you is the correct answer. Don't forget the pictures when it's done!


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## gandude (Jan 9, 2015)

Getting close. Waiting on wheels, spacers, tools, frame saver spray. Have the headset installed. Used a 1.25" PVC pipe w/cap to pound crown race on fork.

frame, 56cm CycleForceGroup CroMo Road Frame black 49.62


fork, Nashbar CroMo chrome
bar tape, Nashbar white 56.56


headset, FSA Orbit-MX black w/white label
stem, DEDA Quatro 2 white/black
seatpost, FSA Gravity Gap white w/black label
groupset, Shimano 105 5800 black
handlebar, FSA Wing white w/black label 542.93


seat, Oval 300 black w/white stripes (have this)


cables, Jagwire Road Pro white
front deraileur hanger, black
seatpost clamp, Sunlite 30mm black 52.00


wheels, Shimano Ultegra 6800 black
tires, 23mm Vitoro white tread/black case
tubes, 302.84 


cable stops, Origin8 black 10.45

pedals, need to purchase


spacers, carbon fiber (4) 5,10,15,20mm 6.35


1020.75 total for bike


BikeHand tool set, YC-748 56.22


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

That's definitely in the ballpark. I'm considering buying a new wheelset, which would put me in the same range as yours.

Keep an eye on your seat binder, as both of ours had slippage problems. Not saying you'll need a double clamp, but you might need a shim or something.


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## gandude (Jan 9, 2015)

Do you think I should have gotten a carbon fork? EShummer did this. I am re-thinking it????

What are the +- of this?


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

I'm using a cro-moly fork (not Nashbar's but similar) and it works fine. I've toyed with the idea of a carbon fork, but only because I've never had one. I'm told it reduces road vibration, and it just might. Larger tires (like 28s or 32s) will also reduce road vibrations since you have lower pressures. Double wrapping your bars will dampen perceived vibrations also.
I'd build what you've got and try it for a month or two before swapping out anything. If the steel fork is harsh, I'd still swap tires to larger before swapping forks, if only since it's less expensive (2 tires @ $40 vs $110+ for a fork).


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## gandude (Jan 9, 2015)

Thought the build would have started by now, but still waiting on wheels from Merlincycles. The headset spacers are not square either. see pics.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

I'm not sure the carbon fork makes a huge difference. I thought most of the "comfort" came from the larger tires and lower pressure...but then the only other material I can compare it to is aluminum - I never had a steel fork.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

gandude said:


> The headset spacers are not square either. see pics.


That's terrible. Where did you get those?


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## gandude (Jan 9, 2015)

*Bought headset spaces on Ebay*



myhui said:


> That's terrible. Where did you get those?


Bought them on EBay. 5,10,15,20 mm 4pc set. $6.35. -only good one was the 5mm.

Went to LBS yesterday, and got 3 10mm AL spacers. Painted them white.


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## SwimCycle09 (Apr 22, 2014)

Junior, eschummer or anyone else that has experience with frame. Can you comment on the geometry/sizing? The geometry listed on Nashbar's site for this frame seems ridiculous. I even emailed them awhile back and asked about it and their response was it was true to the chart they had posted. 

Nashbar Cro-mo Road Frame

How can that possibly be? There is no way someone created a similar sized top tube and exact same head tube length for 6 frame sizes with seat tubes varying in length by 10cm from smallest to largest...anyway I would be interested to hear some real world feedback on the geometry with these frames from those who have built one.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

I posted on that before (page 2, IIRC). The TT and HT angles are correct but the TT lengths are corresponding with frame size.


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## SwimCycle09 (Apr 22, 2014)

Ok, Thanks. So I am assuming then the sizes are square frames then? ie... 56 TT and 56 seat tube for a 56cm frame.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Not sure about seat tube height. I was more concerned with TT length, and went from there. As you can tell from the pics posted, both of ours with 58cm frames have a fair amount of seat post exposed, so I doubt that if you need a 56cm frame, that the frame will be too tall for you.


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## SwimCycle09 (Apr 22, 2014)

I appreciate the responses, you have been very helpful. I just threw 56 out there as an example. I am 5'8" with shorter legs and a longer torso, so I would probably go with the 52, but if that seattube is taller than published, I won't have any more standover than I do on my nice roadbike, which I would want a little more standover on a commuter bike. I agree though, that TT length is more important.


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## fixinta (Sep 24, 2014)

Sweet build! I'm working on a hybrid build for short bike camping trips. I have a BOB Yak trailer I'll be pulling with it. I started with a CL $30 Giant Yukon that was a 90-something mountain bike. Once it's all said and done, I will have my pseudo-touring bike for under $300. I'm about 90% done. Nothing quite like the satisfaction of building your own ride. Store bought is so.....boring.


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## gandude (Jan 9, 2015)

*all parts are in!*

After 3 weeks of waiting on the wheels, I can start the bike build now.

I treated the frame and fork w/antirust. FYI the antirust products are nothing more than lanolin that can be bought as leather conditioner or hand softener. 


Most of the parts have been test fitted and are good to go. I would like to say the BikeHand tool set seems to be a good value. These tools are from Taiwan, but are nicely priced. They are made of real 'tool steel' and the box is top notch.


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## gandude (Jan 9, 2015)

During assembly I have three questions,




What can I do about the interference between the front brake caliper and lower headset cup? It’s just barely touching. see pic 
Can someone point me to directions on control cable hookup and routing from the handlebars?
I found Shimano cables and housings in the lever box. The place I bought them from said they were not included, so I bought a Jagwire set. I would like to use the Jagwire because they are white. BUT would the Shimano's be better to use? 

Thank you in advance for help.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

1) I'd try an extra spacer on the brake pivot bolt (a small washer would do it), then readjust the pads.

2) IIRC, 5800 cables exit under the hoods. So from the hoods, they stay under the bar tape (both brake and shift cables), and from the tape to the a)front brake b) top bar cable guide c) down to the down tube cable stops. Some like to cross the cables at this point for their routing under the BB, I didn't.

3) Either cable set will do the job well. IME, while trying to get the housing lengths to optimum length, I had installed and removed the cables and housing so many times that they were getting a little chewed up by the time they were done. If you want to use the Jagwire in the final build, I'd use the Shimano to get it all set up and dialed in, and trimmed to length. After all is fixed and set up and routed to your satisfaction, THEN swap to the Jagwire, and keep the Shimano cables and housing as extras both for measuring replacements and for back ups.


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## gandude (Jan 9, 2015)

Thank you for the info Junior1210,


I have attached a picture of the bike tech I am familiar with. It’s a lot different than this new bike.

What are the ‘straws’ for? ... the cable ends? Which one goes where?(see pic) and where does the ball on the shifter cable end go in the lever assembly? This is a fairly complicated mess I have here!

Help!


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

You should check the Park tool site for routing through the shifters. I might figure it out if they were in front of me, but I don't want to give info I'm not sure about. My MicroShift is a little different than Shimano.

For the cable bits, the 'straws' are housing ends (trailing ends). I believe they're there to keep crap from wandering into the housing from the backside. Every time your housing ends, you'd use those ends (one on each side at the cable frame stops, and one more at the rear derailleur). The larger silver bits are for the brake housing trailing ends (at the caliper adjustment cups), and the smaller silver bits are the cable end ferrules.

For routing, check out the pictures in post #70. Though Eshummer is using Ultegra, the routing is exactly the same as for 5800. It's a much sleeker look than your Univega, but it's important to keep the cables well lubed and clean, since there's more bends and curves. Unless you enjoy wrapping bars a lot, I'd just tape your housing in place until everything was perfect. That's the one advantage of 'flying' cables, being able to swap shift cables and housing without rewrapping the bars all the time.
If you were using older STI's like 5500, or current Tiagra, Sora, Claris, or any of the MicroShift gear, you'd want to check out post #23's pics (my bike).


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## gandude (Jan 9, 2015)

*It's done!*

The bike is complete, using the pedals off the Univega till figure out what ones I should get. The shift levers were a hassle, but thanks to the Shimano website, step by step installation w/pics helped. I need to take handlebar tape wrapping 101. (It looks crappy)


Need to fine tune bits here and there but it rides nice and feels solid. A bit heavier than I thought it would be. Very precise feel to it. The frame much smaller than my too large Univega 25” frame -(it wasn’t too large in 86 when I bought it) …guess I’m shrinking!

I plan to give it a workout next weekend when my cold is gone.

Thanks for the inspiration and help along the way!


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Good job. Don't forget your bottle cages and biddons. Extra points for photos in front of a blue wall instead of a white garage door.

So we got low cost (mine), mid level (Gandude), upper mid level (Eschummer). Now we just need some one to build one up with Dura-Ace Di2 or Super Record.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Update. No major changes, and still rolling fine. Thinking about putting a wider tire on the back (30-32mm) to see how cushy a ride I can get. Also added a second tail light so that I'll have one flashing and one steady red all the time.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

junior1210 said:


> Update. No major changes, and still rolling fine. Thinking about putting a wider tire on the back (30-32mm) to see how cushy a ride I can get. Also added a second tail light so that I'll have one flashing and one steady red all the time.


The light setup is a good idea, I have 3 lights in the rear and the main one, which is the brightest, stays on steady while the other two flash.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

Now that the days are getting longer I don't worry so much about the lights, but you're right that being seen is vital...


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Most of my riding is at night so lights have always been part of my situation. I've had great luck with Magicshine until this year, when the headlight died. I got 3 years out of it so I can't complain. I had bought a Solar Storm X2 as a cheap stopgap until I bought another MS, but it's worked so well (and with the battery pack I already have), I'm using it as a full replacement.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

junior1210 said:


> Most of my riding is at night so lights have always been part of my situation. I've had great luck with Magicshine until this year, when the headlight died. I got 3 years out of it so I can't complain. I had bought a Solar Storm X2 as a cheap stopgap until I bought another MS, but it's worked so well (and with the battery pack I already have), I'm using it as a full replacement.


3 years for $120? In my opinion that is not a good life span for a light. I have a Cygolite MityCross that is going on it's 5th year and still going strong and I paid less.

If you look real carefully at the MagicShine lights you can get generic versions of the same light for no more than $50 either on Amazon or Ebay. For example here is this $129 MagicShine: MJ-816-L2 Magicshine 1800 lumen bike light | Magicshine USA And here is the Generic version for just $32: Amazon.com: Welltop® 3x CREE XM-L T6 LED Bicycle Bike HeadLamp Rechargeable 18650 Headlight Torch 5000LM 30W High Power CREE 3 Head XML 3T6 LED Bicycle Bike Light Head Lamp 2 in 1 with Bike Mount and 2 Pcs of 18650 5000 mah Rechargeable Battery (lig

Magicshine has always been relabeled generic lights to give a $40 light brand recognition and then charge at least $100 more for it.

My Magicshine lasted 2 months, so you beat me, but I couldn't get MS to warranty it under the 90 day warranty they use to have, no return e-mails after I sent the light back after 6 months never heard a word.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

I can't complain since I had gotten the headlight (MJ-816) and the taillight, and the battery pack in a package deal for $100 at the time. The only problem I ever had with it was when the center light died (the two side lights still work, but I retired it). The taillight still functions as well as day one, and the pack still holds it's charge perfectly, and works with the new unit. I've seen a few guys do better for less with generic lights, but I know one guy who got worse service from a $400 light set up.


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## gandude (Jan 9, 2015)

Well, It's time for my bike report.


The bike has been ridden for about 4 months. I had a shop do a tune on it a week after it was finished, thought it would be good to have a 2nd party safety check since this was my first build. I can say it's perfect for me. It rides great and I am extremely happy with it. Light, fast, smooth, pretty, are words to describe it. I found that the 'no-name' look is a bonus. All the bikes around have brand names stuck all over - it's cool to be the no-name guy! The Shimano 105 is faultless. Shifting is smooth and precise unlike the Sora on that crap Raleigh I bought.


I can honestly say this frame and the parts made the bike I was looking for in the shops.


Ride safe all.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

gandude said:


> Shifting is smooth and precise unlike the Sora on that crap Raleigh I bought..


I have Several Dura Ace bikes, several Ultegra, several 105 in the house. Also have a 2014 Sora group I put on my old 2006 Roubiax. My only complaint on the SORA is a little rattle in the left STI presumably the indicator window. It shifts and preforms perfectly fine. "smooth and precise" dare I say...

Why this poster's SORA was crap IMO has to do more than with SORA being crap certainly. I don't have any idea which version to which is being referred, mine is 9 speed 2014 Sora FWIW.


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## gandude (Jan 9, 2015)

Robt57
The Sora is a 9 speed on a bike I bought last year, new from a bike shop. I thought a flat bar was a good idea (at the time) and the bike shop didn't have a 'better' flat bar bike. The owner said he could put a flat bar on the one in the pic.


The problem may very well be the bike or other components and NOT the Sora. The bike from day 1 has had problems pedaling backwards. it's so bad that if the rear freewheel is on the 2nd big cog and the front is on the big cog and you pedal backwards 1/4 turn it jams the derailur into the spokes on the rear wheel bending spokes and trashing the derailur. Raleigh when I called said this is normal, that the chain is "cross chained, DONT DO IT". I understand what this is, however it should not result in destruction of parts. The bike guy I go to now put an alignment tool on the rear and checked everything. He said he doesn't know why it's doing it.


Anyway, I have written-off Sora and everything connected with that bike - it left a very bad taste in my mouth. Sora may be OK for some, but not for me.

BTW-the only redeeming value on that bike is the seat. It's on my new one.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

gandude said:


> Well, It's time for my bike report.
> 
> 
> The bike has been ridden for about 4 months. I had a shop do a tune on it a week after it was finished, thought it would be good to have a 2nd party safety check since this was my first build. I can say it's perfect for me. It rides great and I am extremely happy with it. Light, fast, smooth, pretty, are words to describe it. I found that the 'no-name' look is a bonus. All the bikes around have brand names stuck all over - it's cool to be the no-name guy! The Shimano 105 is faultless. Shifting is smooth and precise unlike the Sora on that crap Raleigh I bought.
> ...


Yep, it's especially fun when somebody asks if it's a ______ (insert high $$ bike name here). Low profile is the way to go.
My experience is that if a group isn't installed correct from the start, it never works right until all the problems are dealt with. If the Sora group was fitted with make do work arounds, they probably contributed to their crappy-ness. I had to finally put a 'real' shim on my front derailleur clamp, the make do it tried worked, until it didn't. The $5 I saved at the time wasn't worth the hassle in the long run.


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## gandude (Jan 9, 2015)

*How are your builds doing Junior, Eshummer?*

Hey,
Just wanted to drop a line and say how grateful I am to have found this bike thread. IMO people should assemble a bike to know the ins and outs of it all and ultimately, end up with a better match for his or her bike. Thanks to all who have helped me here!


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## Ayers Garage (Apr 15, 2015)

I been lurking on this thread a while.....










Mine is going to have a bit of a vintage flare to it. Many more pictures and details as more parts arrive.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

We'll be waiting. I'm still holding out hope for somebody to do a Campy SR or a Dura Ace Di2 build, just so we cover the whole spectrum. Hmmm, yes, with some 50mm low spoke carbon wheels, and leather saddle with matching leather bar tape. Oops, pardon my drooling, kinda wandered off there for a moment.


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## gandude (Jan 9, 2015)

*I know that box!*

LOL, I know that box! Good luck with your build. You literally have a wealth of knowledge at your fingertips here!


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## Ayers Garage (Apr 15, 2015)

Like I said earlier, I'm shooting for a bit of a vintage vibe with my build. But, budget constraints require me to use parts that I have on hand. My budget is around 200 dollars plus the frame. I have a majority of the parts needed already set aside.

In the name of the vintage vibe, today's task was to turn mundane parts into retro looking parts. I started with a Specialized compact 44cm handlebar, Specialized 110mm stem, stem spacers, and seat post.










strip off factory powdercoat and polish the al-you-men-ium pieces (said with a British accent)....










I did not bother to polish the bars in the areas that will be covered with tape. 

I wish I could have afforded nice new polished parts but I just finished up a Cannondale build last week so the money tree is cut off short. Stripping and polishing the pieces took maybe an hour so I guess it was well worth the cost savings to invest my labor.


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## Ayers Garage (Apr 15, 2015)

Seat post stripped and polished.










Also, my friend Mr Brooks has been hanging around awhile waiting on the right build.










Mr Brooks and I are good friends. We are very comfortable with each other.


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## Ayers Garage (Apr 15, 2015)

gandude said:


> Hey,
> Just wanted to drop a line and say how grateful I am to have found this bike thread. IMO people should assemble a bike to know the ins and outs of it all and ultimately, end up with a better match for his or her bike. Thanks to all who have helped me here!


Tell me about your seat post clamp. Which one did you use and has it performed okay ? I'm trying to figure out options besides spending 18 bucks and ordering the Gorilla Park one from Ti-Juan like the other two guys wound up using.

thank you...


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## gandude (Jan 9, 2015)

Sunlite Bicycle Seat Post Clamp 30mm Black | eBay

Hello AG,

The seat post clamp is a Sunlite 30mm black alloy. $5.99 w/free shipping on EBay. I weigh 210lbs (reason for getting back into bikes) and it appears to be holding well.
LOL, this is the first time I have helped someone here, YAY!
Those parts are beautiful. How did you get the powder coat off?
-Glen





Ayers Garage said:


> Tell me about your seat post clamp. Which one did you use and has it performed okay ? I'm trying to figure out options besides spending 18 bucks and ordering the Gorilla Park one from Ti-Juan like the other two guys wound up using.
> 
> thank you...


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## gandude (Jan 9, 2015)

Sunlite Seat Post Clamp 30 0 Silver | eBay

AG,
I just checked and they have one in natural aluminum.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

I had used the GP binder since I happened to have had the extra in my parts box (they had sent me two by mistake and it would have cost more to send it back than it was worth). It isn't pretty, though it does kinda fit the look of my bike, but I have the other on my hard tail 29er and it doesn't slip. Evah. Which is what I want from a post binder.

I'm liking what you're doing with your used parts. Did you clear coat them after polishing?


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## Ayers Garage (Apr 15, 2015)

gandude said:


> Sunlite Bicycle Seat Post Clamp 30mm Black | eBay
> 
> Hello AG,
> 
> ...


Glen, I have a vat of Methylene Chloride to strip powdercoat off. The bars were stubborn, I don't think it was powder. I wound up having to bead blast them to get down to bare metal. Then a quick hand sand with Scotchbrite and then polish on a buffing wheel. 



junior1210 said:


> I had used the GP binder since I happened to have had the extra in my parts box (they had sent me two by mistake and it would have cost more to send it back than it was worth). It isn't pretty, though it does kinda fit the look of my bike, but I have the other on my hard tail 29er and it doesn't slip. Evah. Which is what I want from a post binder.
> 
> I'm liking what you're doing with your used parts. Did you clear coat them after polishing?


I didn't clear the parts. I'm comfortable with them taking on a bit of patina as time goes on. 

On the subject of seat post binder, I found this one today that works pretty well (so far). Free is my favorite price. It seems exceedingly secure, not sure if it will slip or not when I put my weight down on it in anger. If it slips I'll knurl the seat post some to give it a bit Of extra traction under the clamped area.


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## Ayers Garage (Apr 15, 2015)

I've been going back and forth on fork choice. On one hand I wanted a chrome lugged steel fork from Nashbar (54 dollars) and on the other hand I wanted a carbon fork from Nashbar (99 dollars) for the one pound weight savings and ride quality improvement. 

In in the end I took this Specialized carbon fork that I already had and sanded the ugly off and painted it black to match the frame. Out of pocket cost was zero since I already had the primer and paint. 



















currently awaiting my headset from Amazon. I wanted a silver finish headset and quickly found that black is the rule for most headsets. I finally settled on a silver Origin8 brand for 27 dollars...meh.. My other brand options were pretty much all 50+ dollars.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

FWIW in the future, Ribble is pretty good on headsets. As for color (other than black), Origin8, FSA and NOS older Cane Creek are about it unless you want to start paying over $50.

Good job on the fork. I've toyed with the idea of trying a carbon fork, but my steel works. I'm inclined to think that it won't make a huge difference, but I've been wrong before.


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## Ayers Garage (Apr 15, 2015)

junior1210 said:


> FWIW in the future, Ribble is pretty good on headsets. As for color (other than black), Origin8, FSA and NOS older Cane Creek are about it unless you want to start paying over $50.
> 
> Good job on the fork. I've toyed with the idea of trying a carbon fork, but my steel works. I'm inclined to think that it won't make a huge difference, but I've been wrong before.


In the last few months I've ordered from Ribble, Wiggle, and Merlin. Them plus ProBikeKit and ChainReaction are on my list when I'm shopping for something. All I really saw in silver finish for less than 50 was a Ritchey which appeared in all pictures to have steel cups which were zinc plated. I'm hoping the Origin8 polished aluminum is good enough quality. I suspect it will be, a headset isn't really some place where I worry much about sudden and catastrophic failure. 

The fork was just an opportunity to use something laying around. I did shop heavily before making my decision and noted that the weight difference between steel and carbon blade forks is about 500 odd grams. That's about a pound. It's ridiculous to go all weight weenie on a 70 dollar clunky frame but I will take any pound loss I can get for reasonable effort. But, I'm looking to cut costs here too so I'd absolutely have gone with any steel fork I could have laid my hands on for short money.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Sorry, I should have also included SJS cycles ( SJS Cycles Online Bike Shop for Touring, Mountain & Road Bikes and Specialised Bicycle Parts ). Shipping is iffy on costs, but they have good stuff, some of which I've never found anywhere else.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

junior1210 said:


> FWIW in the future, Ribble is pretty good on headsets. As for color (other than black), Origin8, FSA and NOS older Cane Creek are about it unless you want to start paying over $50.
> 
> Good job on the fork. I've toyed with the idea of trying a carbon fork, but my steel works. I'm inclined to think that it won't make a huge difference, but I've been wrong before.


I've toyed with the idea too on one of my steel bikes but never did. It would make about a pound of weight difference and of course money, both are about the same in dampening vibration so you won't notice any advantage there. If you're not racing there is no real need to spend money on a carbon fork, maybe if you're climbing a lot of steep grades you would notice an improvement of not hauling around an extra pound of weight, but is it really necessary to that for that purpose? I don't think so.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Exactly. I'd get far more out of losing the weight (many times over) off of myself than anything I'd get from swapping the fork. Plus the cash.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

gandude said:


> if the rear freewheel is on the 2nd big cog and the front is on the big cog and you pedal backwards


Why you are doing either of those things is beyond me. Although I can't disagree it should not cause what you describe.


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## gandude (Jan 9, 2015)

*I will try to explain*



robt57 said:


> Why you are doing either of those things is beyond me. Although I can't disagree it should not cause what you describe.


Unlike a lot of bike riders, I stop at all red lights and stop signs. When the light turns green, I go. While riding, if I come up to a red light, I shift into a lower gear ratio before I stop so I can pull away when it turns green. Now that I am in this lower ratio as I stop, I need to align myself with the button to change the light. When I do this, I pedal backwards so my right foot is at 1-3 o'clock (this is where the problem happens) and ready for take off. I really don't use the front derailur at all, even climbing hills. My new bike has no problem in cross chain mode, thus no jamming. Neither does the old Univega.


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## Ayers Garage (Apr 15, 2015)

The Origin8 headset arrived yesterday. It looks quality enough to me. I used my shop press to push the upper and lower cups in at the same time to assure their parallelness (probably a made up word). The final look of polished aluminum flanked by black frame and black fork gave the detail look I was after. Then I started hanging components onto the bike. I'm using a Tiagra 4600 10 speed groupset I had here on hand from a bike I parted out recently. I think the black frame really makes the silver Tiagra stuff look pretty okay. 

































Next up I'm gonna drive the star nut down and cut the steer tube and finalize the fork installation. 

Things I still need to buy which will be a week or so till the money tree grows a bit...

-Chain. KMC will be my choice for budget considerations
-Cable set. I'm leaning towards Jagwire so I can get color choices on a budget
-One tire. I already have a 25 Gatorback brand new on hand. Will get a 28 for the rear
-A pair of tubes
-Bar wrap

So far I've very happy with the outcome and it hasn't hurt the pocketbook at all.


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## Ayers Garage (Apr 15, 2015)

I placed my last parts order needed to finish this thing. Wiggle is being a little slow at "despatching" my order. Have tires, tubes, bar tape, chain, and cable ferrules coming. Should be the last stuff I need to finish this thing.

While I'm waiting I went ahead and cut the fork and finished the stem installation. I've seen a bunch of guys get real worked up over cutting these things and a lot of guys take them to the LBS and pay someone to take a hacksaw to it for them. As long as it's not a carbon steer tube fork, not much works better than a 10 dollar tube cutter from any hardware store. I just marked it and removed fork then drove the star nut deeper into the tube and cut it just short of the mark. It took maybe 1 minute for the whole deal. 










More updates to come when Her Majesty's Royal AirMail delivers my stuff.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Cutting the steerer isn't a big deal, unless you've never do it before. Since you know how much you needed to keep, taking off the excess is nothing. The pipe cutter is exactly what is needed to do the job, and maybe some emery cloth or a file to round off the edge. The bike is shaping up nicely. I'll be interested in how you determine the needed length of cable housing when you get that far. That was by far my biggest hassle (install, adjust, uninstall, trim, repeat until satisfied, replace with final cable/housing).


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## Ayers Garage (Apr 15, 2015)

junior1210 said:


> Cutting the steerer isn't a big deal, unless you've never do it before. Since you know how much you needed to keep, taking off the excess is nothing. The pipe cutter is exactly what is needed to do the job, and maybe some emery cloth or a file to round off the edge. The bike is shaping up nicely. I'll be interested in how you determine the needed length of cable housing when you get that far. That was by far my biggest hassle (install, adjust, uninstall, trim, repeat until satisfied, replace with final cable/housing).


I've only built one bike previous to this one so I don't have any great technique figured out. I zip tied the cables to the bars then held the housing in place, adjusting it to length whist swinging the bars to and fro to assure sufficient slack, then marked the housing with masking tape for cutting. It's not concours quality beautiful but it's not distractingly long or too short. I used a Dremel to cut the housings and a plasma cutter to cut the cable (it melts the end together). 










This bike should be a lot easier to cable since the Tiagra shift cables come directly out of the sides of the brifters rather than under the tape. I'm reusing used cable and housings along with new ferrules. Should be inexpensive.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

My MicroShift are the same way (flying cables), and I was a little leery about going too short, so I wound up going the other direction. Might have been easier if the cables had been routed under the tape. On the bright side, it's a one time thing. Next time I have to replace housings, it's measure to the old and cut.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

Ayers Garage said:


> As long as it's not a carbon steer tube fork,


I've cut carbon steer tube with the same type of pipe cutter as yours, twice. It still works. :thumbsup:


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## xml-2277 (Dec 31, 2014)

what about it
Asian Cycle Express-Carbon wheels,Carbon wheelsets,29er carbon frames,carbon road bicycle wheels,carbon rims,carbon MTB bike frame-bicycle shop in ace


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

What about what? Don't see anything on there that strikes me as interesting.


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## Ayers Garage (Apr 15, 2015)

Here is my follow up of the build.

CFG (Nashbar) CroMo frame (Amazon)

Parts I already had on hand...

Tiagra groupset
Brooks saddle
Specialized seatpost, stem, handlebars
Axis wheels
Nashbar SPD pedals
Axis 1.0 brakes
Specialized carbon fork

Had to buy...

Gatorback tires and tubes
Sram 10 speed chain
Fizik handlebar tape
Bottle cages (Walmart)
Cable ferrules
Shimano cable stops for downtube
Origin8 headset























































I did order one other thing, strictly out of vanity. I personally think the Tiagra big chain ring is pure ugly...










So I ordered a 105 chain ring. Still waiting for it to arrive from Amazon. I think it's much nicer looking and was willing to spring the cash strictly for that alone.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

Ayers Garage said:


> Here is my follow up of the build.


Looks like a FC-4650 crank which is 110mm BC, is the 105 chainring 110mm or 130?


Also, please rotate the bars down so the flat parts on the drops point no lower than the brake caliper bolt...


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## Ayers Garage (Apr 15, 2015)

robt57 said:


> Looks like a FC-4650 crank which is 110mm BC, is the 105 chainring 110mm or 130?
> 
> 
> Also, please rotate the bars down so the flat parts on the drops point no lower than the brake caliper bolt...


The chainring I ordered is a 110 pattern 105 compact 50t. I believe it will be a straight swap. I used the 105 ring off my Cannondale to compare to. That last picture I posted of the 105 chainring was just a Google image grab of silver 105 chainring for illustration. Mine is in a UPS truck somewhere on the east coast currently.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

Good job. Nothing wrong with spending a little cash for aesthetics. Looks good and I hope you enjoy yours as much as I enjoy mine. For less than $100, it's a pretty good frame, and builds up into a decent bike.


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## Ayers Garage (Apr 15, 2015)

The 105 chain ring arrived today. I think it is much more pleasing to the eye and was worth the money. 

Old Tiagra ring. 










new 105 ring. 










I'm going to have to work on some fitment next. I took it on a couple of hour ride and figured out that I need the saddle further back. The Brooks won't allow any further aft adjustment. I believe I'll swap the saddle over to the same Specialized brand one I have on my Cannondale first. That looks like it will allow enough movement back to fix things, if not I'll look into offset seat posts after that.


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## junior1210 (May 2, 2013)

It is an improvement. Kalloy makes a decent set back seat post, but they tend to be a little heavy. But they are cheap.


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## gandude (Jan 9, 2015)

Round two starting... (I liked building the 1st bike during winter)

Amazon had a 58cm frame for $60, last one, so I picked it up. Going to build another one this time w/Tiagra, use the 10 speed wheels from PB originally bought for my other build. Try a Cane Creek headset, Chinese ebay integrated carbon bar/stem, Chinese ebay carbon seatpost. I the frame fits me better, I may swap the best parts to the new frame.

-Glen


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