# Joe Papp fallout



## thighmaster (Feb 2, 2006)

Read Velo news on a new positve. How did this high level master get caught? The wind blew in some info, but folks, don't use your name and address to have dope mailed to your home. If your on Papps list that way, you're busted. For the hundreds who didn't use such info you get to still race against them. Oh and let me guess, anything he says will be sour grapes for getting caught cause there are only a few cheaters. Hahahahahaha


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Duane "Dewey" Dickey has been doping for about 15 years, and everyone who raced against him knew it. He got popped in Guatemala in 2001 for phentermine, boldenone and nandrolone. At 41 years old, he would win really hard pro races right after winning the masters 30+ races.

---He sure didn't hide it well.

The shitty part is that he has had a (benign) brain tumor and suffered a lot of other medical illnesses/surgeries that have nearly killed him. My question is if it was at all related to the doping.

ed. wow.


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## cyclesport45 (Dec 10, 2007)

Uhhhh, dopers suck?


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## thighmaster (Feb 2, 2006)

The Papp connection is what they used against him. Some bigger fish will tumble soon.


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## eyebob (Feb 3, 2004)

*Here's the link to the story*

What I found interesting was that dating back to 2007 he would have to forfeit any medals, point and prizes. So who goes after him for the prize money he may have collected? Where does that money go to?




Duane Dickey gets lifetime ban
By VeloNews.com • Updated: Sep 10th 2010 2:00 PM EDT 

The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency announced Friday American cyclist Duane Dickey of Cokato, Minnesota, has accepted a lifetime suspension after a second anti-doping rule violation based on his use and possession of synthetic erythropoietin (EPO) as well as his refusal to submit to sample collection.

(Related: Dickey’s recent results on USA Cycling’s web site)

EPO, used to stimulate red blood cell production is among a class of Peptide Hormones, Growth Factors and Related Substances under the World Anti-Doping Code (“Code”) and the World Anti-Doping Agency Prohibited List. Dickey also was charged with a violation of the Code for refusing to provide a sample when notified. The 41-year-old Dickey was alleged to have declined to cooperate with USADA out-of-competition testing on May 11, 2010.

Dickey’s lifetime period of ineligibility began on September 1, 2010, the day he accepted the sanction. Additionally, Dickey is disqualified from all competitive results achieved on and subsequent to April 2, 2007, the date he first committed the anti-doping rule violations, including forfeiture of any medals, points and prizes.

Dickey had previously received a one-year suspension in 2002 after testing positive for the prohibited substances phentermine, boldenone and nandrolone in a sample taken from him at the 2001 Tour of Guatemala.


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## thighmaster (Feb 2, 2006)

He owes me a few bucks here and there. Wonder who initiates the process if they went back to each event and sent him a bill or would each person get some. Given his financials I wouldn't hold out hope for a payday. I also don't know how this system works as it's not done in a court and the drugs are not on a schedule like cocaine etc. What about all the non punished yellow line violations and those taking cough syrup who would test positve (albeit silly) and of course the other guys also on the prize list who didn't get caught. We judge cheating on the perceived unfairness, but cheating is still cheating and given your last dying gasp to hang on just for an extra second of better air, most of us have crossed the yellow line. Did you ever come clean at the end? Get's kind of grey sometimes if you throw out the yabutts.


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## Barry Muzzin (Sep 18, 2006)

*More to Come...*

15-25 masters, elites, and pros.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/09/news/sources-anti-doping-authorities-preparing-cases-against-up-to-two-dozen-domestic-racers_140460


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

*Hmmmm which one (maybe two?) is it*

" Papp has been active on Twitter. On August 19, following stage 2 of the Tour of Utah, Papp wrote, “Jonathan Mccarty, don’t worry, you were really 5th today in Utah. Or at least you will be.”

McCarty had finished sixth on that stage, behind Levi Leipheimer, Francisco Mancebo, Ian Boswell, Darren Lill and Phil Zajicek.
"


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## thighmaster (Feb 2, 2006)

The reason I had the drop on this info is I know one of the 25. I knew since I posted the "I'm so naive" thread. There may be more coming out on 5 more (not sure if included in the 25) who bought way more than an individual could use and are therefore thought of as trafficers. The number is low because this is the group who were traceable. Just think how many more are among us. One supplier, 25 not savy enough and this doesn't even touch the barrel. I want to punch this guy and protect him. I was so shocked I just couldn't beleive a guy I know is on the list. 

His excuse is the same "There is no way I can train this hard and be beaten so bad, there is no way those guys are clean, I guess I need to partake as well. 

Maybe he'll come clean and who here will blast him for "sour grapes". His comment to me was it's rampant and actually a joke how much stuff is being used. Lifetime or two years, that part I don't know. But for the hundreds not caught, you race among them.

I say thanks to all those working hard to end this stuff.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Looks like Papp was a dealer. Wonder if these disclosures were part of the plea deal? If so, nice job by the ADA.



> Earlier this year Papp, 35, pleaded guilty in a Pennsylvania federal court to conspiracy to distribute human growth hormone and recombinant erythropoietin imported from China. Agents from the Drug Enforcement Administration were involved in Papp’s case.
> 
> Assistant U.S. Attorney Mary McKeen Houghton told The Associated Press in February that Papp had earned more than $80,000 selling the drugs from September 2006 to September 2007 to 187 customers, including cyclists and other athletes, for performance enhancement.
> 
> The customers were not identified in court, and Houghton, Papp and his attorney, William Ward, declined to comment on terms of the plea agreement, which the court sealed — sometimes an indication that a defendant is cooperating with investigators.


187 customers!


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## thighmaster (Feb 2, 2006)

He got it from somewhere in Asia. So yes a dealer, but there are more, and then there are more not connected to Papp. Geez, feel like I might end up in cement shoes if I don't guard my words.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

I will be interested to see the Masters names. . .


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

thighmaster said:


> The reason I had the drop on this info is I know one of the 25. I knew since I posted the "I'm so naive" thread. There may be more coming out on 5 more (not sure if included in the 25) who bought way more than an individual could use and are therefore thought of as trafficers. The number is low because this is the group who were traceable. Just think how many more are among us. One supplier, 25 not savy enough and this doesn't even touch the barrel. I want to punch this guy and protect him. I was so shocked I just couldn't beleive a guy I know is on the list.
> 
> His excuse is the same "There is no way I can train this hard and be beaten so bad, there is no way those guys are clean, I guess I need to partake as well.
> 
> ...


And yet…I get told by some of the long time posters that they have lost respect for me because of what I said in the "I'm so naive" thread....LOL :idea: 

People have no clue about how much stuff is being used, even in the amateur ranks. Either that or they are just unwilling to admit it. 

As far as the Masters level...well, lets just say that there is a lot more than people are willing to admit :mad2: Much of their stuff is gained legally though through their own doctor…how many riders are out there getting hormone treatment when they don’t really need it? Nothing like getting your health insurance to actually pay for your PED usage :thumbsup:


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## epic (Apr 16, 2005)

Can I just ask you guys a stupid question? Isn't doping really expensive? We've all seen Tyler Hamilton's doping bill from the fax.

Why the F would a Master's racer spend all that money on doping? There's no chance of a lucrative ProTour contract, sponsorships or big prize money. I always figured with no reward for doping, nobody at that level would want to assume the risk or even pay the bills to do it.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

epic said:


> Can I just ask you guys a stupid question? Isn't doping really expensive? We've all seen Tyler Hamilton's doping bill from the fax.
> 
> Why the F would a Master's racer spend all that money on doping? There's no chance of a lucrative ProTour contract, sponsorships or big prize money. I always figured with no reward for doping, nobody at that level would want to assume the risk or even pay the bills to do it.


Is it more or less expensive than getting a new set of carbon wheels?

Plus, the Tyler Hamilton bill was for high-end doping. The price tag automatically limits entry. It's the low-end stuff that is far more common, and if the sport can't keep a lid on it, what will happen to cycling? Not all PEDs are the same. 

In recreational drugs terms, I guess Hamilton was snorting pure cocaine, and Papp was pushing crack cocaine. Which one devastates entire neighborhoods and cities and communities?


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## Dwaynebarry (Mar 16, 2004)

orange_julius said:


> Plus, the Tyler Hamilton bill was for high-end doping.


Yea, an amateur can probably get 90+% of the performance gains possible by simply using EPO. Hamilton's program was so sophisticated because of the blood doping and the need to avoid EPO detection and stay under the 50% hct. limit, none of which would concern an amateur. Not to mention he was paying for Fuentes' expertise in avoiding detection.

You can go to plenty of gyms and see guys and some gals juiced out of their eyeballs with almost zero chance of ever recouping any money as a result of what they put into their body. Doping has as much to do with psychology as financial gain.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

epic said:


> Can I just ask you guys a stupid question? Isn't doping really expensive? We've all seen Tyler Hamilton's doping bill from the fax.
> 
> Why the F would a Master's racer spend all that money on doping? There's no chance of a lucrative ProTour contract, sponsorships or big prize money. I always figured with no reward for doping, nobody at that level would want to assume the risk or even pay the bills to do it.


It certainly can be...however, many Masters racers have larger discretionary income than other races, which allows them to purchase PED's.

Also figure that many Masters level racers have good health care and if you can get your doctor to write you a prescription for Testosterone replacement, the cost is reduced substantially...and that's not all to uncommon for many people these days.

For EPO and the likes...it's more expensive and harder to get, but if you have the resources can be done...but again, if you have the money  

As was stated by another poster...a years worth of doping supplies for a Masters level racer would cost about the same as a really nice set of wheels, or a new bike, which isn't out of the realm of many racers. It will be a little less for a Masters racer since they likely won't be on quite the regime as a pro racer. They also are not as likely to seek advice from a doctor or have them monitor their doping program...so less costs there as well.

Why would one do this?

Why does anybody use recreational drugs? Why do people drink Alcohol? Why do people cheat on their taxes? Why do people cheat on their spouses? The answer is different for everybody and only they can justify why the do it. However, that doesn't eliminate the fact that they are doing these things even if they are illegal, unethical or against the rules.

Never underestimate the Al Bundy's of the world trying to hold onto their high school glory :thumbsup:


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Dwaynebarry said:


> Yea, an amateur can probably get 90+% of the performance gains possible by simply using EPO. Hamilton's program was so sophisticated because of the blood doping and the need to avoid EPO detection and stay under the 50% hct. limit, none of which would concern an amateur. Not to mention he was paying for Fuentes' expertise in avoiding detection.
> 
> You can go to plenty of gyms and see guys and some gals juiced out of their eyeballs with almost zero chance of ever recouping any money as a result of what they put into their body. Doping has as much to do with psychology as financial gain.


+1 not to mention all the "anti-aging" clinics pushing HGH and Testosterone doping out there as "replacement therapy". 

Going to be interesting.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Dwaynebarry said:


> Doping has as much to do with psychology as financial gain.


Plus, the Masters racers are the ones with $$$$$. A lot of them spend lavishly on their weekend hobby. You can always 'hear' them in a race, they are the ones with the whoosh-whoosh of expensive deep-rimmed carbon wheels ;-). 

Papp was really not pushing the high-end stuff. The Cyclingnews article says he only made $80k over a year selling to 187 people. That's really not much. If you're an over-zealous Masters racer who already dropped $10k on a Lightweight wheelset, what's another $2k?


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## SickBoy (Oct 29, 2004)

thighmaster said:


> The reason I had the drop on this info is I know one of the 25. I knew since I posted the "I'm so naive" thread. There may be more coming out on 5 more (not sure if included in the 25) who bought way more than an individual could use and are therefore thought of as trafficers. The number is low because this is the group who were traceable. Just think how many more are among us. One supplier, 25 not savy enough and this doesn't even touch the barrel. I want to punch this guy and protect him. I was so shocked I just couldn't beleive a guy I know is on the list.
> 
> His excuse is the same "There is no way I can train this hard and be beaten so bad, there is no way those guys are clean, I guess I need to partake as well.
> 
> ...


So when might we see some names getting named in this? I'm also curious...

Having been a local racing against Dewey for the last 5 years since he came back from his bout with cancer, I gotta say that I didn't really suspect him. I knew about the issues with his TUE's, though getting fingered by Papp was something I didn't know about.


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

Ummm, what's the quality of Chinese EPO like? I recall Dario Frigo getting caught paying a hefty price for some saline solution in an EPO vial not that many years ago.


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## My Own Private Idaho (Aug 14, 2007)

Check out any in-flight magazine these days. If I were to have a midlife crisis it would be easier and cheaper for me to start doping and race bicycles than to buy that Corvette and get hair transplants.....


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## Lazy Spinner (Aug 30, 2009)

At the local level anywhere there are masters using DHEA, testosterone, and any number of performance enhancers available through a family physician (Woe is me! I'm 40 and I've lost my zest for life. I feel schlubby. I'm not interested in making love to my wife. Blah...blah..blah... Got something that can help a depressed middle aged guy like me?) or a strip mall supplement emporium.

In the end, it's just a bunch of selfish, insecure, and shallow man-children that can't accept aging, think their fooling Father Time, or are stoking their ego for lack of any real substance in their lives.


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## thighmaster (Feb 2, 2006)

SickBoy said:


> So when might we see some names getting named in this? I'm also curious...
> 
> Having been a local racing against Dewey for the last 5 years since he came back from his bout with cancer, I gotta say that I didn't really suspect him. I knew about the issues with his TUE's, though getting fingered by Papp was something I didn't know about.


Perhaps all 25 of the nearly 200 were dumb enough to put their name and address on the package as is the case of the one I know. These people didn't fail any administered drug test, and failing was not needed. Seriously think that even Papp was one of many suppliers, and Papp had up to 5 suppliers under him. This Chinese supplier wasn't living off of Papp alone, this is big business. This doesn't even scratch the barrel. Thus we shall dub this "PAP SMEAR"


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

In everything I've read about EPO street prices it was less expensive than I can get it through legit channels. Making 80k off that many people struck me as another indication it's a very competitive market.


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

So Jelly Belly wasn't just popping beans in their mouth.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Mootsie said:


> So Jelly Belly wasn't just popping beans in their mouth.


Apparently not: Jelly Belly Rider admist to using EPO


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Wookiebiker said:


> Apparently not: Jelly Belly Rider admist to using EPO


The part of about him having a _website_ to sell EPO was particularly funny- Joe Papp took his drug peddling seriously.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Coolhand said:


> The part of about him having a _website_ to sell EPO was particularly funny- Joe Papp took his drug peddling seriously.


It also allowed papp to stay behind teh scene apprently alot of people had no idea that they were buying from Papp to them it was just a website. Also some of these guys are just stupid using their real emails and addresses to purchase the stuff.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

32and3cross said:


> Also some of these guys are just stupid using their real emails and addresses to purchase the stuff.


It kind of makes you wonder how many out there won't get caught because they were using a false e-mail and address. Of course if they paid by credit card, they may still be able to track the individuals down by name...which could be interesting.

Of course, they could always claim they were purchasing the PED's for their wife or significant other


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## empty_set (Nov 1, 2006)

Papp is, I don't know, some kind of sideshow:

" Gnite from Denver, peeps. Remember - speed kills, EPO works, but doping isn't worth the long term negative consequences..."

via Cyclingnews

I wonder if his lawyer(s) have told him to STFU.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Papp, is a oppertunistic cheater. Its fine taht hes coming clean and in some way I hope it helps the sport but the fact remains he was a cheater and he's doing this because he has angle in it, just deCanio and Landis. 




empty_set said:


> Papp is, I don't know, some kind of sideshow:
> 
> " Gnite from Denver, peeps. Remember - speed kills, EPO works, but doping isn't worth the long term negative consequences..."
> 
> ...


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## Zampano (Aug 7, 2005)

The funny thing about Cycling News' Papp quotes is it sounds like Papp is part of the solution.


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## thighmaster (Feb 2, 2006)

I see they cleared a doper on the list. This is the problem with the Papp case, no one was actually tested. In a court of law, none of these guys would be guilty as each one could claim it was for a sick mother or whatever. So even though they could still be banned, a lawer threatening USADA got them to cave. They have to pick their battles. I read that Dewey made a full confession, this pardoned rider will still inflict the peloton. :mad2:


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

Mootsie said:


> So Jelly Belly wasn't just popping beans in their mouth.



"EPO bellies" They taste like splenda.


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## SickBoy (Oct 29, 2004)

thighmaster said:


> I see they cleared a doper on the list. This is the problem with the Papp case, no one was actually tested. In a court of law, none of these guys would be guilty as each one could claim it was for a sick mother or whatever. So even though they could still be banned, a lawer threatening USADA got them to cave. They have to pick their battles. I read that Dewey made a full confession, this pardoned rider will still inflict the peloton. :mad2:


Has anyone gotten wind of who this unnamed pro was? Supposedly he was racing in the USPRO road race in Greenville...


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