# Can I live with Veloce shifters, or should I get Chorus



## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I am building a bike to keep at my in-laws in Florida. I'll probably ride this bike 2 to 3 weeks out of the year, so it won't be much. That is why I am building it up with an old CAAD 5 frame I got off ebay and Veloce. For the amount I am going to ride it, should I pay the extra money for the Chorus shifters/levers?

I currently have 3 bikes with Record shifters on them, and love them all. I'm just wondering if it will be that disappointing to have Veloce shifters. Then again, for $100 I could just ebay them and upgrade later.


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## lsnfa (Oct 22, 2003)

fabsroman said:


> I am building a bike to keep at my in-laws in Florida. I'll probably ride this bike 2 to 3 weeks out of the year, so it won't be much. That is why I am building it up with an old CAAD 5 frame I got off ebay and Veloce. For the amount I am going to ride it, should I pay the extra money for the Chorus shifters/levers?
> 
> I currently have 3 bikes with Record shifters on them, and love them all. I'm just wondering if it will be that disappointing to have Veloce shifters. Then again, for $100 I could just ebay them and upgrade later.


I think you are kinda answering your own question... I doubt that you'd be disappointed with Veloce. I have a few record bikes and a few chorus bike and also a veloce one. Veloce works perfectly fine. Just not as nicely as Record. You'll be able to appreciate the record when you get back and when you are in Florida you'll appreciate how nicely inexpensive veloce actually works. There is joy in appreciating expensive things that works as they should and there is joy in appreciating inexpensive stuff that works beautifully beyond your expectation.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Thanks.

I just went ahead and bought the Veloce levers. Now, I am debating what wheelset to get. I run tubulars on all my other bikes, but I don't know what I want to do with this bike. I was thinking about just buying a set of cheap Campy clinchers, but I'll hold off and debate it some more.


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## winmac (Sep 30, 2007)

i am thinking of building a campy bike but i was wondering what the difference is between Veloce & Centaur shifters?

also what would be the best mix of campy parts?

i thought Centaur was supposed to be the happy medium?

thanks


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I think Centaur used to be the happy medium of shifters and it used to allow multiple shifts, but that isn't the case anymore. The happy medium between Record, which allows multiple shifts and uses bearings inside, and the lowly Mirage which only allows single shifts and uses slides/shims instead of bearings, is now Chorus. If you want multiple shifts and bearings for as cheap as possible, I think you have to go with Chorus.

I'm almost finished building my CAAD5 with Veloce, and aesthetically there doesn't seem to be much difference. Weight wise, the bike is a lot heavier than my Bianchi FG Lite with Record components and Zipp 202 wheel, but the CAAD5 has Campy Veloce and Campy Khamsin wheels, none of which is known to be light weight.

At the end of the day, the mix of components you use will depend on what you are looking for. If you are looking for value, get Veloce or Centaur. If you are looking for light weight and don't care about price, get Record or Chorus. If you want the best shifting possible, get Record or Chorus shifters and derailleurs. Unless weight is a concern, you could just use the Veloce crank, and it is available in silver or black. Everything depends on what your goals are for a bike build.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

fabsroman said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I just went ahead and bought the Veloce levers. Now, I am debating what wheelset to get. I run tubulars on all my other bikes, but I don't know what I want to do with this bike. I was thinking about just buying a set of cheap Campy clinchers, but I'll hold off and debate it some more.


For an aluminum frame I would go with tubulars. The ride is a little more comfortable. 

I rode tubulars on my Colnago Dream for the first 7 years. I switched to clinchers last summer and am really feeling it in my bones. The combination of the aluminum frame and the clinchers = ouch!


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

I have 06 Centaur can cannot complain.


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## winmac (Sep 30, 2007)

so is Centaur basically Veloce with a little carbon in the mix?

in which case i may as well go with Veloce.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I ended up buying the Campy Khamsin clinchers. This bike is going to be kept in Tampa, Florida at my in-laws for the 2 to 3 weeks a year that I am out there visiting. The roads are pretty nice, so I'm not too worried about the ride quality of the wheels.

For all my bikes at home I have tubulars, with the exception of my MTB. I haven't ridden clinchers on the road for over 20 years.

I have the following sets of tubulars:

1) Zipp 404
2) Zipp 303
3) Zipp 202
4) Campy Eurus
5) Campy Record Strada rims on 2007 Campy Record hubs 36 hole.
6) Campy Victory Strada rims on 1985 Super Record hubs 36 hole.
7) Campy Record Crono rims on 1989 C Record hubs 28 hole.

I'm about to build a 32 hole set of Campy Record Strada rims on 2008 Record hubs, 32 hole 2 cross front and back with bladed spokes, and I am going to build a set of Campy Record Crono rims on Tune hubs, 28 hole, laced radial up front and 2x in the rear with bladed spokes.

The thing is, I couldn't bear parting with a set of my tubulars and leaving them in Florida, and I am using a Veloce cassette on this bike and didn't want to screw up any of these nice hubs. I'll let you know how it goes when I ride it down there in May.

I put the tires and tubes on the Khamsin wheels last night, and that wasn't a fun experience. Ended up pinching one of the tubes, so that pissed me off. Luckily, I had bought a spare tube. Then, I pulled the patch kit out of the MTB saddle bag to find that the rubber cement was all dried up. I HATE CLINCHERS, but hopefully they will be good enough for 3 weeks out of the year.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

That is the case for the new levers. I think the 2007 levers might be the last time they made them like the Chorus and Record levers. Do a search for it on the board. I remember reading a couple of threads about it, but I just don't remember what year the cutoff was. The 2006 Centaur levers are a lot more like Record and Chorus than the 2008 ones.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

fabsroman said:


> I have the following sets of tubulars:
> 
> 1) Zipp 404
> 2) Zipp 303
> ...


That's quite a quiver, but I guess you need that may to avoid having to chnage tublars. Zing!


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

fabsroman said:


> That is the case for the new levers. I think the 2007 levers might be the last time they made them like the Chorus and Record levers. Do a search for it on the board. I remember reading a couple of threads about it, but I just don't remember what year the cutoff was. The 2006 Centaur levers are a lot more like Record and Chorus than the 2008 ones.


I think the cutoff was 2006.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Good zing. The reason why I need a quiver of wheels is because I have a stable of bikes. Not including the CAAD5 that is headed to Florida, I have the following:

Colnago Cristallo - 2007 Campy Record
Colnago Arte - 2007 Campy Record
Colnago Oval Krono - 2007 Campy Record
Bianchi FG Lite - 2008 Campy Record
Mino Denti - 1985 Super Record

7 sets of wheels for 5 bikes isn't too bad. LOL

The Bianchi is the only one currently set up with cabon pads, so it is the only one I am using the Zipp wheels on. The wheels with the older style hubs are used on the Mino Denti because it only has a 6 speed freewheel. Next on the list is a C50, but I've run out of room in my garage so it will have to wait until we get a house.

By the way, I would rather change out a tubular than fix a flat on a clincher any day of the week, and twice on Sunday. I hate tire levers and I hate patch kits. LOL


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

fabsroman said:


> Good zing. The reason why I need a quiver of wheels is because I have a stable of bikes. Not including the CAAD5 that is headed to Florida, I have the following:
> 
> Colnago Cristallo - 2007 Campy Record
> Colnago Arte - 2007 Campy Record
> ...


I'm in awe, and jealous, of that line up. 

Maybe you have different kinds of flats on the East Coast. Here, I just find the torn, pop out the tube to the extent needed to apply some glue and a patch, put it back on and pump it up. Done and done.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

"Maybe you have different kinds of flats on the East Coast."

When I read that, I thought how can we have different flats here. Flat road is flat road. Then I read the rest of the paragraph.

I have yet to ge a flat from a thorn. For the most part, my flats are either from hitting large potholes or glass. We tend to have a lot of glass in the road from auto accidents and idiots throwing bottles out their window. Glass is sometimes hard to spot in a tire, especially if it is really small.

My last two flats were on Tufo Elite Jets that weighed 150 grams. They blew out on separate occassions when I hit a pothole. I don't use them anymore. I have a slow leak in one of my training tires, a Tufo S33 with 3,000 miles on it and I have a slow leak in one of my racing tires, a Tufo S3 Lite that weighs less than 195 grams. Once I get a significant leak in a tubular, I throw it away. The slow leak in the racing tire was fixed with some Slime, and the traning tire is about to see the garbage can anyway since it has 3,000+ miles on it.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

fabsroman said:


> I have yet to ge a flat from a thorn. For the most part, my flats are either from hitting large potholes or glass. We tend to have a lot of glass in the road from auto accidents and idiots throwing bottles out their window. Glass is sometimes hard to spot in a tire, especially if it is really small.


Wow. I mean, wow. If that were the case here, I'd never have flats. I you think you run over glass, I just quickly wipe the tire with my glove and no worries. 

Goatheads are the bane of my existence. http://www.sdc.org/fattire/goatheads.html


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I would not want to have those weeds out here. However, sometimes I get flats without even knowing why I got the flat. I'm willing to bet that I pick up a small piece of glass out of nowhere and it works its way into my tire as I ride along. I never ride over a pile of glass left on the side of the road, but do you really think they get every speck of that glass up when they finally clean it. Knock on wood, I haven't had a bad flat since about this time last year. For the most part, I can usually get 3,000+ miles out of my training tubulars without a problem. I don't fix my tubulars. I just chuck them and use a new one when they get a flat. I'd be broke if I had to deal with those goatheads.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

n/m..


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

What does n/m stand for? Is that never mind?

Trust me, I did go pretty cheap on this bike. I picked up the frame for $290 on ebay, got the Veloce groupo for around $575 from pro bike kit, got the Cinelli Axis stem, Cinelli Graphis bar, and Campy Khamsin wheels for a total of $290 from Ital Techno, and I got the tires and tubes from Performance for 15% off plus 10% back in member points, so about $80. All those amounts include the shipping costs. The only thing left is a Fizik Arione saddle and Campy Chorus seatpost. If this bike costs me more than $1,500, I would be seriously surprised.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

I'm torn about the shifters for my rebuild project... It has old Shimano 600 shifters and I'm going with either Centaur or Chorus shifters (yes I'm changing everything else to Campy and using an American Classic cassette). Is the multi-gear shift and rebuild ability worth the extra $80+? I'm REALLY trying to do it cheap, I've been picking up the sales in the Hotdeals section, so far I got the Centaur crank for $100 and the Centaur brakes for $33, it would be awesome to get a deal on the brifters and dérailleurs too!


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I went with Veloce shifters, so it doesn't get much cheaper than that. I thought about putting Mirage on this CAAD5, but then decided against it. If the shifters ever go bad, I'd replace them instead of rebuilding them for what they cost.


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

winmac said:


> also what would be the best mix of campy parts?


This is what I plan to get for my De Rosa 

*Shifters: Record* - I belive that Record/Chorus are better than other groupos and Record cost only 15€ more than Chorus, so I'll pay extra for Record name on it 
*Crankset: Chorus* - Record cranks are just notorious expensive and only 30g lighter than Chorus. Centaur rings don't look as good as Chorus...so I'll go with Chorus on this part
*Brakes: Record * - Only reason for choosing Record brakes is that only them come in black
*Front and rear derailleur: Centaur* - Derailleurs are stupid, they all work the same so I'll go with Centaur on this one. Also I don't like carbon and Ti cages on Record/Chorus. I could even go with Veloce here, but Centaur look better and are not expensive.
*Sprockets: Veloce* - There is nothing wrong with Veloce sprockets and they are not connected like Record/Chorus so I can make sprocket combos as I wish...I like 11-21 for flat and 11-29 for hard climbs (like Stelvio, Mortirolo...)
*Chain: SRAM* - I can't live without PowerLink


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Brakes: Veloce come in black, but they weight a ton.

Cassette: Veloce is a horrible cassette for a 11-29 because those single cogs can put some pretty good gouges in a freehub when it is only a single cog because the torque from pedaling isn't spread out over two cogs of area on the freehub. I have Record or Chorus on all my bikes, and I still have indentations on my freehubs from the cogs digging in. The largest cog I have used so far is a 23 on a 39 ring. I couldn't imagine the amount of torque put on the cog with a 34 ring and a 29 cog. I bet I could leave some pretty good indentations in my freehub with that setup and a Veloce cassette. It is hard enough to get the cogs off with the indentations I currently have in the freehub.


With that said, I used a Veloce cassette on my Florida bike that will be staying at my in-laws for when we visit. My thinking is that there aren't any climbs in Florida, so I won't be torquing the freehub very much. Plus, the wheelset is a crappy Khamsin so I won't cry if I destroy the freehub completely. Last but not least, the bike will only see 2 to 3 weeks of riding a year.

Chain: Lickbike sells some quicklinks for the Campy chains. I haven't used them yet, but intend on ordering them when I finally order a set of Record hubs.


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

fabsroman said:


> Cassette: Veloce is a horrible cassette for a 11-29 because those single cogs can put some pretty good gouges in a freehub when it is only a single cog because the torque from pedaling isn't spread out over two cogs of area on the freehub. I have Record or Chorus on all my bikes, and I still have indentations on my freehubs from the cogs digging in. The largest cog I have used so far is a 23 on a 39 ring. I couldn't imagine the amount of torque put on the cog with a 34 ring and a 29 cog. I bet I could leave some pretty good indentations in my freehub with that setup and a Veloce cassette. It is hard enough to get the cogs off with the indentations I currently have in the freehub.


On Record/Chorus two cogs are connected on the same carrier, so you can't say that torque is spread on the area two cogs, it is spread over area of that carrier. Torque from two cogs is transfered by only one carrier, and if area of the Record/Chorus carrier that sits on the hub is the same as the area of the single Veloce cog, than you will end with same torque that spreads exactly like on Veloce. The fact that two cogs are connected means that torque from those two cogs will be transfered to exactly the same place on the hub, unlike on Veloce where torque from those two cogs is transfered over different areas on the hub.
I just checked Campagnolo web site and to me it looks that Record/Chorus carrier is wider than single Veloce cog which would mean that torque with Record/Chorus cogs is spread over wider area on the hub.
If Record/Chorus carrier is wider than single Veloce sprocket we can conclude:
- you will make dents with both Record/Chorus and Veloce sprockets
- Record/Chorus will make it with less force, but longer because torque from two cogs is spread on hub via one carrier.
- Veloce will make dents shorter, but with greater force because every cog sits on hub by itself

To determine which setup will make bigger dents in hub we we would have to know function that takes in consideration:
1) characteristics of all materials (cogs, carrier, hub)
2) difference in geometry of cog vs carrier
3) time you spend on each cog

Since I don't know any of those three things In the end I conclude that I can't conclude anything and that I won't bother with this. 
Will continue to use Veloce sprockets because they are cheaper and it allows me to have more setups easy. I use Veloce cogs for ages (9sp though) and I didn't notice dents on the hub that would consider me.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

That is a pretty good analysis of the entire situation. I was going to mention that the contact area on the Record/Chorus cogs is wider than the Veloce contact area of a single cog, but you covered that. My freehubs are all aluminum, specifically Zipp, Campy 2007 Record, and Tune. I notice the notches mostly in the Zipp freehub. At the end of the day, all the freehubs can be replaced. Most of my indentations are from the larger cogs (e.g., 23/21 and 19/17). Honestly, I cringe to think of what the 26 or 29 would do. I just bought an 11-25 Chorus cassette, and am somewhat scared to put it on my wheels. Luckily, when I am in shape I usually don't use the 23 or 21 to climb very much, so I'm not really killing my freehub. A quick fix would be to get out the Dremel tool and sand the notches in the freehb down. In the end, I'm going to agree with you. To figure out which one is better would take forever. Go with the Veloce.


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