# Look 585/595 demand



## mungoman58

Hi all,

What is it about the 585/595 that people find so appealing to the point that they would rather purchase a NOS 585/595 over a 586/695? It's not often you find enthusiasts of a particular brand who have next to no interest in upgrading to the latest and greatest. Are these bike comparable to the latest and greatest or is it more about traditional looks and construction. I'm intrigued to the point of nearly wanting to join the club....


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## audiojan

The 595 is a very comfortable, yet stiff bike. You can ride centuries on it, but you can also contest the town line sprint with it (and win it!). I have both a 586 and a 595, and they are both good in their own rights, but I think I would still give the slight edge to the 595.

The 695 is really a 595, but taken to the next level. The Zed crank is amazing (I have that on my 596Tri), super light, but also the stiffest crank on the market, just zero flex!. The C-stem makes the front end even a bit stiffer than the 595 (which just makes it track even better, not that the 595 was poor). Given the price difference between a NOS 595 (about $2k-2.5) and the 695, you basically get very close to the performance, but at a fraction of the cost.


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## axel23

The 585 I have strikes a better balance between stiffness and comfort than any bike I've owned (and that's a large number). Mine weights 14 1/2 lbs without any especially exotic equipment.

Talking with Look reps, they view newer models as more aggressive (i.e., stiffer and with more race-oriented geometry). The older 585 is an odd blend of traditional lugged frame design with advanced carbon fiber construction. Somehow, it works flawlessly.


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## robdamanii

The 585/595 just has a superbly tuned ride. It is a little more "noodly" than todays monocoque carbon frames, but I find that to be appealing: it rewards a refined pedal stroke and finesse riding style as opposed to the brute force approach.

Plus the lugged construction is just magnificent.


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## RK250

Interesting timing of your question. My 595 is on its way back to Look for a repair to the clearcoat. Look couldn't tell me exactly what they were going to offer as a solution to my issue but given a choice on taking a new 586 or get my 595 repaired, I think I want my 595.
I've had many bikes including 585. They are proven, quality riding machines. Nothing crazy special, they just ride really well. As Tom Kellogg once said "When it's right, it's right."
Merlin...hmm..I still have a Merlin Ti mtb. they're pretty nice too!


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## axel23

robdamanii said:


> The 585/595 just has a superbly tuned ride. It is a little more "noodly" than todays monocoque carbon frames, but I find that to be appealing: it rewards a refined pedal stroke and finesse riding style as opposed to the brute force approach.
> 
> Plus the lugged construction is just magnificent.


I agree with your comment about build quality, but "noodly" is not a word I'd ever use about the 585, even compared to current monocoque frames. I think the ability to absorb road vibration is a more telling indicator. It's just not seen as an important factor in current frames. Maybe that's a function of frame design (wheelbase, chain stay length, BB height) or maybe it's inherent to the monocoque fab - but in any case, it's noticeable. So maybe we're saying the same thing, but expressing it differently.


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## robdamanii

axel23 said:


> I agree with your comment about build quality, but "noodly" is not a word I'd ever use about the 585, even compared to current monocoque frames. I think the ability to absorb road vibration is a more telling indicator. It's just not seen as an important factor in current frames. Maybe that's a function of frame design (wheelbase, chain stay length, BB height) or maybe it's inherent to the monocoque fab - but in any case, it's noticeable. So maybe we're saying the same thing, but expressing it differently.


We're saying the same thing, I just couldn't come up with the right words. Thanks for articulating it better than I was able to.


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## maximum7

> The 585/595 just has a superbly tuned ride. It is a little more "noodly" than todays monocoque carbon frames, but I find that to be appealing: it rewards a refined pedal stroke and finesse riding style as opposed to the brute force approach.


Maybe I am just a lightweight, but I don't find anything in common with those comments. 
I doubt I have a refined stroke, but mine handles everything I can put into it. If it's "noodly", I can't tell. 
Some days I feel embarrassed that I ride one, because I don't think I can do the bike justice as a rider. 

From Bike Radar,
Pro Bike: Thor Hushovd's Paris-Roubaix Look 585 - BikeRadar




> The morning of the 2008 Paris-Roubaix brought surprisingly pleasant conditions and so the specially dedicated mud machines often used for the Hell of the North weren’t entirely necessary.
> 
> Even so, Thor Hushovd set off from Compiègne aboard a Look 585 Origin instead of his usual 595.
> 
> According to head mechanic Pascal Ridel, the swap wasn’t made for any durability or strength reasons; it was strictly a question of comfort. “It’s a little smoother than the 595,” he said.


If it's good enough for him....


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## robdamanii

maximum7 said:


> Maybe I am just a lightweight, but I don't find anything in common with those comments.
> I doubt I have a refined stroke, but mine handles everything I can put into it. If it's "noodly", I can't tell.
> Some days I feel embarrassed that I ride one, because I don't think I can do the bike justice as a rider.
> 
> From Bike Radar,
> Pro Bike: Thor Hushovd's Paris-Roubaix Look 585 - BikeRadar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it's good enough for him....


See my post right above yours...


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## maximum7

I did. That's why I posted mine.


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## lemonlime

robdamanii said:


> The 585/595 just has a superbly tuned ride. It is a little more "noodly" than todays monocoque carbon frames, but I find that to be appealing: it rewards a refined pedal stroke and finesse riding style as opposed to the brute force approach.
> 
> Plus the lugged construction is just magnificent.


^This. So much of this.


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## varian72

Few bike models other than Colnagos (c40, c50) seem generate the same lament for their discontinuance.

I'm actively looking for the best condition 585 I can find smacking myself in the head for not ponying up for one in the first place. I can't tell if Wilier has actually replaced the Cento1 with the SR and Zero series, but if so I wonder if the same crowd will be looking for old Cento1s.

I have no interest in any current Look model.


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## twiggy73

I have a 585 one of the last made 

And I will never get rid of it. i recently did a 145mile ride and do a few rides of such distance every year and it never beats me up at all! i got off the bike after 9hrs 15 min in the saddle with no back pain or any kind of pain that would suggest the bike had beat me up! 
the tube and lug construction has always allowed them the abiltiy to tune the bike perfectly as it allows each tube to be individually made, achieving the best balanced alround frame as found in the colnago and the look 585 and 595 
I am hopeing one day they will go back for a limited run and realise just how popular they really are and start making them again! 

I am interested in test riding a 675 but have not seen one in the shops yet here in aus!! 

if you can get your hands on one go for it !!!! 
Twiggy


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## maximum7

A guy in town had a 2009 585 Origin listed for months on Craigslist. It was a 51cm. Set up very nice. 
Saw it on there for months. Last price was 1900.00. 
I wish I could have bought it.


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## tranzformer

I have both a 585 and a 595 Ultra. I have no interest in any of the current Look frames. I will not sell or trade my 585/595 in for anything. It will be a sad day when they eventually die. By far the nicest Look frames I have ridden. I don't have extensive time on the 695, but from the limited time I have had, I would rather be on my 585 or my 595. No questions. Not to mention, I love the way lugged frames ride and the classic look of them.





audiojan said:


> The Zed crank is amazing (I have that on my 596Tri), super light, but also the stiffest crank on the market, just zero flex!.


Actually Cannondale Hollowgram has that honor of being the stiffest crank available.


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## lambdamaster

I personally find the 695 to be a little ugly with the humped top tube. The lack of crank power meter options is also an issue.










Love the lugs.

P.S. if anyone is looking for a 51cm 585, shoot me a PM


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## edk

@lambdamaster: Very, very nice!


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## tranzformer

lambdamaster said:


> I personally find the 695 to be a little ugly with the humped top tube.
> 
> Love the lugs.


I love the lugs as well and also find the 695 ugly in comparison. I think those beliefs hold true for most 585/595 owners. Just something about the 585/595 that the newer Looks just don't have. Nothing wrong with them if they float your boat, but I would rather have a lugged Look.


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## mungoman58

Have picked up a new 2010 595 Pro Team. Been eying of a lugged bike for a while, mainly because monocoque frames are a dime a dozen and I wanted something a bit unique while not giving away anything in performance. Look forward to putting it together and getting it out on the road.


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## esldude

The 585 is certainly a good ride and looks really good. The lugged construction with such nice carbon wrap is much more appealing than monocoque. Even with equal ride quality such a frame wouldn't be a pretty as the lugged carbon. But the 585 ride is what makes it so good the nice appearance is just a bonus. 

I would be looking for nothing else except I have a frame with better fit. If anyone is looking for one, I actually have two I am about to sell. One is in basically unused perfect condition. One has some use. Size is Large. I will put up an ad for them soon.


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## tranzformer

^Such a nice looking frame. Too bad you are selling. You sure you want to? I think you might regret it one day. They sure don't make them like they use too. Well at least Parlee still makes lugged frames.

I have yet had a chance to ride a Parlee. I hear great things about them. Anyone ride a Parlee and able to compare to the 585/595?


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## OrenPerets

tranzformer said:


> I have yet had a chance to ride a Parlee. I hear great things about them. Anyone ride a Parlee and able to compare to the 585/595?


I rode a Parlee Z4 for the last two years, and have switched to 595 ultra lately.

Basically the Z4 was 90% everything the look is (smooth, stiff, lively).
the look has just a bit more refined ride (muted/smooth) while retaining the same liveliness and is every bit as stiff if not stiffer. the look steering is a bit better.
I also feel like the look is a bit more "overbuilt" for some reason. as if it is a bit more robust/strong.

Parlee is a little lighter than the 595 as a package (frame / fork / seatpost). i guess 100-150 grams. Parlee had an easton EC90 seatpost and edge 2.0 fork.

I was looking for a 595 when i found the Parlee at the right price so... had to try it.

For me, i feel like the LOOK is a bit better. i really like its smoothness.
but... that does not say the Parlee is anything less than the look.
It is, by all means, a fabulous ride.

my .02$
Oren


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## tranzformer

^ Thanks Oren. I have heard great things about the Parlee bikes, but I am impressed that you think so highly of Look to consider them on par with one another. Really speaks how great the 585/595 are.


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## OrenPerets

tranzformer said:


> ^ Thanks Oren. I have heard great things about the Parlee bikes, but I am impressed that you think so highly of Look to consider them on par with one another. Really speaks how great the 585/595 are.


With pleasure.

Mind that i rode the Z4, and not its current replacement - the Z5.
The Z5 is supposed to be a little smoother and the steering should be improved due to the tapered fork.

I think LOOK is up there with the best, including Parlee and the likes.

Oren


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## RK250

Guys, 2 weeks ago, as indicated by a previous post, my 595 went back to San Jose for an easy warranty clearcoat repair. Can you believe UPS completely destroyed my medium mint 595 Ultra? There are tire marks across the box. What sucks for me is I under insured it at $1500. The shipping for an insured amount of $2000 was $104, so I took the chance thinking "I'll be ok." After stating my case to UPS explaining that they're in the shipping business not the destruction business, I should be compensated for closer to replacement. Hmm, sorry sir, $1500 plus your $74 freight is what you're getting.
Meanwhile to the question of the Parlee: Can you believe I had interest in one prior and I felt the dimensions hit me perfectly. Well, I got a Z5 and it is great. The good news on the dollars is a shop in Ohio gave me a truly 'can't say no' deal. The Z5 isn't outrageous, but it is super light and handles so perfectly neutral. Anyone who thinks these are watered down CEO bikes, wrong. This is a race bike. 
You can't go wrong either way. There will never be any question in my mind ever concerning the ride quality of a Look. They are great bikes. The Parlee fits me a little better and it ended up costing me a bit out of pocket but I'll live. Lesson learned: insurance on shipping something is no different from insurance period. The chances of using it are low but when you need it, you'll never regret being over insured.


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## lambdamaster

RK250 said:


> Guys, 2 weeks ago, as indicated by a previous post, my 595 went back to San Jose for an easy warranty clearcoat repair. Can you believe UPS completely destroyed my medium mint 595 Ultra? There are tire marks across the box. What sucks for me is I under insured it at $1500. The shipping for an insured amount of $2000 was $104, so I took the chance thinking "I'll be ok." After stating my case to UPS explaining that they're in the shipping business not the destruction business, I should be compensated for closer to replacement. Hmm, sorry sir, $1500 plus your $74 freight is what you're getting.Lesson learned: insurance on shipping something is no different from insurance period. The chances of using it are low but when you need it, you'll never regret being over insured.



For Fedex, insurance is $1 for every $100 above the $100 free base insurance. ($19 surcharge to insure $2000) In my experience, Fedex is cheaper in general and often faster.


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## tranzformer

RK250 said:


> Guys, 2 weeks ago, as indicated by a previous post, my 595 went back to San Jose for an easy warranty clearcoat repair. Can you believe UPS completely destroyed my medium mint 595 Ultra? There are tire marks across the box. What sucks for me is I under insured it at $1500. The shipping for an insured amount of $2000 was $104, so I took the chance thinking "I'll be ok." After stating my case to UPS explaining that they're in the shipping business not the destruction business, I should be compensated for closer to replacement. Hmm, sorry sir, $1500 plus your $74 freight is what you're getting.
> Meanwhile to the question of the Parlee: Can you believe I had interest in one prior and I felt the dimensions hit me perfectly. Well, I got a Z5 and it is great. The good news on the dollars is a shop in Ohio gave me a truly 'can't say no' deal. The Z5 isn't outrageous, but it is super light and handles so perfectly neutral. Anyone who thinks these are watered down CEO bikes, wrong. This is a race bike.
> You can't go wrong either way. There will never be any question in my mind ever concerning the ride quality of a Look. They are great bikes. The Parlee fits me a little better and it ended up costing me a bit out of pocket but I'll live. Lesson learned: insurance on shipping something is no different from insurance period. The chances of using it are low but when you need it, you'll never regret being over insured.



Do you have pics of the frame? How bad was it. Might be worth sending pics to Calfee to see if he can do his magic. The 595 Ultra is too nice to lay down.


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## RK250

I do have pics on email attachments but haven't ever posted pics on RBR. So, they aren't with http.

Anyhow, I wish it could be saved. A truck ran it over and it is unfortunately destroyed.


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## tranzformer

Well that is quite unfortunate. I feel really bad for you.

If you feel like uploading pictures, you can use a site like this for free: http://imgur.com and then post from there.

Calfee does some amazing repair work. You can see some here: http://www.calfeedesign.com/repair/repair-examples-photos/ But if it is as bad as you make it to sound, then you are out of luck it seems.


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## RK250

The frame is still at Look in San Jose. I'll email my contact and ask to keep me informed of who gets the destroyed frame after UPS settles with me. A truck literally drove over the rear triangle and the seat tube, so even an extreme rebuild from Calfee would be costly. The fork though could be untouched and I have e-post assembly here at home.

Thanks for the link on uploading pics. You all are going to be amazed at the brutal damage, I'll get pics to you today.


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## tranzformer

I still feel bad for you. I was just thinking if your $1574 can't find you a new 595 Ultra in your size, you might want to consider Calfee and see if he can bring your old frame back to life. I have no idea if he can, only he would know. But it might be worth asking him/send some pictures to see what his thoughts are. Unless it was the Parlee Z5 you got to replace the 595 Ultra. If so disregard everything I said. 

595 Ultra is a great frame, and it is sad to hear what happened.


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## esldude

tranzformer said:


> ^Such a nice looking frame. Too bad you are selling. You sure you want to? I think you might regret it one day. They sure don't make them like they use too. Well at least Parlee still makes lugged frames.
> 
> I have yet had a chance to ride a Parlee. I hear great things about them. Anyone ride a Parlee and able to compare to the 585/595?


Oh, not too bad. I have an equally good frame that fits better. Otherwise, I would not sell it. Decided to sell some time ago, but just couldn't bring myself to do it. The ride, the quality of the frame, it is simply exceptional. 

Now if a Parlee is on par with this, I would like to have one some day.


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## CXCAT

Does anyone have a link that shows the history of the look models...lets say from 2000 to current models
thx


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## vetboy

lambdamaster said:


> I personally find the 695 to be a little ugly with the humped top tube. The lack of crank power meter options is also an issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Love the lugs.
> 
> 
> P.S. if anyone is looking for a 51cm 585, shoot me a PM


Way late to this party, but in defense of the 695, I thought I would correct an error - my crank based power meter works great on the 695 - and ugly is in the eye of the beholder.


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## robdamanii

I just REALLY hate the Look stems. Ugly beyond understanding.


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## spookyload

That's the bike I just put 78 miles on today. I have no desire to upgrade till I feel I can out perform it. That isn't happening any time soon. I built it in 2005 when Look USA warrantied my 481SL with a new 585. The 481SL was dead sexy in the Jalabert colors, but the ride was even less aggressive. My bike has had Record 10 on it since 2007 with Zero Gravity brakes and Cosmic Carbones. It hasn't had an upgrade since the Record group, and besides adding chains, has been flawless. I love this bike.


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## vetboy

robdamanii said:


> I just REALLY hate the Look stems. Ugly beyond understanding.


It's grown on me. And if you really don't like it, replace it with one you like.


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## maximum7

I was in Palm Springs last week for the first time ever with my wife and another couple. Three of us ride Looks, which is proudly my fault. 

As we were driving toward Palm Springs from Palm Desert, I spotted a bike shop with a huge LOOK banner in the window. I screamed, we turned around and I basically ran into the store. I mean we were in CA and this is where Look is thriving? so I was all set for eye candy. I walk in. There are two crappy Felt bikes and 3 used mtn bikes. NO LOOK ANYWHERE. I told the two guys behind the counter why I had come in and was told, "we only special order Look anymore.." He even offered to sell me the banner! 
When I could see through the tears, I made it to the door and left empty and forlorn. 

On a bright note there was 695 that was one of theirs behind the counter. First one I've seen in person. Was actually very cool. The tubes are bigger than I thought. The stem is chunky, but I like it. 

I hate to say it, but I think Look is either in serious trouble or on its way out of showroom floors.


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## robdamanii

maximum7 said:


> I was in Palm Springs last week for the first time ever with my wife and another couple. Three of us ride Looks, which is proudly my fault.
> 
> As we were driving toward Palm Springs from Palm Desert, I spotted a bike shop with a huge LOOK banner in the window. I screamed, we turned around and I basically ran into the store. I mean we were in CA and this is where Look is thriving? so I was all set for eye candy. I walk in. There are two crappy Felt bikes and 3 used mtn bikes. NO LOOK ANYWHERE. I told the two guys behind the counter why I had come in and was told, "we only special order Look anymore.." He even offered to sell me the banner!
> When I could see through the tears, I made it to the door and left empty and forlorn.
> 
> On a bright note there was 695 that was one of theirs behind the counter. First one I've seen in person. Was actually very cool. The tubes are bigger than I thought. The stem is chunky, but I like it.
> 
> I hate to say it, but I think Look is either in serious trouble or on its way out of showroom floors.


Funny, we've got about a dozen people riding them in my neck of the woods. 

They don't have the advertising that the big crap-factories have, so their popularity seems to rely on word of mouth more than average. 

At least, that's how it seems.


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## 1synergy

My Challenge also, I cannot find a replacement bike from my 2008 Look 585. 

I have owned many look bikes including Look 281, KX Lite, 555, and my current 2008 look 585 Ultra. At the same time owning 5x Giant TCR's (2004 Zero’s to 2011 Advance 1) for spare ride to work bikes or short 40 mile club sprints. My 585 is getting old in the tooth, clear coat is pealing off and unfortunately there has been for some time a crack in the seat down tube, where the frame has splits for the seat clap to function. No big deal, the crack is supported by the outer luge and not extending. 

Two months ago I ventured out and wrote a large $$ check for a replacement brand new 675 and at great cost also upgraded the group set with 11 Speed Dura Ace. Bike looks sexy-hot with back Dura Ace 11 group set on Black and White Frame. I spend some considerable time reading bike reviews by expert riders indicating the 675 would fly. With a non Integrated Set Pillar (ISP) frame design, a 675 bike boxed would travel well in Europe. 5 days after taking delivery of my new 675, the bike and I headed off to the French Alps to follow the tour. Unfortunately I was shocked to find the 675 bike failed to perform as promised by many experts or match the overall performance of my 585. My new now 675 sits rejected in my garage not used. 

My first ride after taking delivery proved a shocking experience. I literally got off the bike after 2 miles to check if the break pads were rubbing on wheels and or 165mm cranks had been fitted by mistake! Very noticeable, the 675 failed to perform well in straight line speed. My test ride at the bike shop was only round a car part due to running late at closing time [my big mistake]
After 3 weeks, many miles and 30,000 meters of climbing through the French Alps region and onto Switzerland the bike performance can be summarized as follows:
The 675 is a Mule. When Grinding up 11%, 15mile mountain roads the 675 really performs. I’d often surprised myself to find a spare cog or two in the rear when I normally should have been maxing out on the last 28 tooth cog. Not many riders had the opportunity to keep up or pass J. But in a straight line or on the sprint lead up to a hill my speeds were constantly 10-15% slower. I am lost for words to express “Shocked and disappointed”. I can easily spin up 25+mph for some period and keep a smile going. However, with the 675 [mule] I constantly found my self off the seat trying to spin up cadence for speed. Greatest shock in my riding life to find a bike performing so badly on straight line speed.
I am looking at the next alternative, a Look 586. BUT have also read similar disappointment feedback from 585/595 owners moving to 586. A boxed 695 ISP bike will not be accepted on the French TGV high speed trains L due to size. 

At this point I am not ready to retire from riding fast and resigning to the fact my 14 years of loyal commitment to Look Bikes may be over unless I can find an old model new 585 Ultra Medium replacement frame OR Look brings back a 585/595 into production.


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## twiggy73

1synergy said:


> My Challenge also, I cannot find a replacement bike from my 2008 Look 585.
> 
> I have owned many look bikes including Look 281, KX Lite, 555, and my current 2008 look 585 Ultra. At the same time owning 5x Giant TCR's (2004 Zero’s to 2011 Advance 1) for spare ride to work bikes or short 40 mile club sprints. My 585 is getting old in the tooth, clear coat is pealing off and unfortunately there has been for some time a crack in the seat down tube, where the frame has splits for the seat clap to function. No big deal, the crack is supported by the outer luge and not extending.
> 
> Two months ago I ventured out and wrote a large $$ check for a replacement brand new 675 and at great cost also upgraded the group set with 11 Speed Dura Ace. Bike looks sexy-hot with back Dura Ace 11 group set on Black and White Frame. I spend some considerable time reading bike reviews by expert riders indicating the 675 would fly. With a non Integrated Set Pillar (ISP) frame design, a 675 bike boxed would travel well in Europe. 5 days after taking delivery of my new 675, the bike and I headed off to the French Alps to follow the tour. Unfortunately I was shocked to find the 675 bike failed to perform as promised by many experts or match the overall performance of my 585. My new now 675 sits rejected in my garage not used.
> 
> My first ride after taking delivery proved a shocking experience. I literally got off the bike after 2 miles to check if the break pads were rubbing on wheels and or 165mm cranks had been fitted by mistake! Very noticeable, the 675 failed to perform well in straight line speed. My test ride at the bike shop was only round a car part due to running late at closing time [my big mistake]
> After 3 weeks, many miles and 30,000 meters of climbing through the French Alps region and onto Switzerland the bike performance can be summarized as follows:
> The 675 is a Mule. When Grinding up 11%, 15mile mountain roads the 675 really performs. I’d often surprised myself to find a spare cog or two in the rear when I normally should have been maxing out on the last 28 tooth cog. Not many riders had the opportunity to keep up or pass J. But in a straight line or on the sprint lead up to a hill my speeds were constantly 10-15% slower. I am lost for words to express “Shocked and disappointed”. I can easily spin up 25+mph for some period and keep a smile going. However, with the 675 [mule] I constantly found my self off the seat trying to spin up cadence for speed. Greatest shock in my riding lifetime to find a bike performing so badly on straight line speed.
> I am looking at the next alternative, a Look 586. BUT have also read similar disappointment feedback from 585/595 owners moving to 586. A boxed 695 ISP bike will not be accepted on the French TGV high speed trains L due to size.
> 
> At this point I am not ready to retire from riding fast and resigning to the fact my 14 years of loyal commitment to Look Bikes may be over unless I can find an old model new 585 Ultra Medium replacement frame OR Look brings back a 585/595 into production.


Have you considered having your 585 repaired and re sprayed could be more cost effective and will keep it on the road for many more years to come 
Twiggy


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## kramnnim

I rarely ride my 585 since buying a 586. Love both, but the 586 has the better group/wheels, and the 585 is now a backup/rain bike.


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## tranzformer

Unfortunately in a day and age of world wide economic depression/recession and companies trying to keep up with inflation by nickeling and diming on warranty issues or stock build options, we won't see a resurgence of the 585 or 595 imo. I wish that wasn't the case. But lugged frames are expensive to build when they can build a mold frame in Asia for a fraction of the cost.


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## maximum7

kramnnim said:


> I rarely ride my 585 since buying a 586. Love both, but the 586 has the better group/wheels, and the 585 is now a backup/rain bike.


So would you ride the 585 if it had the better components?


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## maximum7

Look needs to eliminate either the 566 or the 675. After the above review and the published reviews, they seem like they are serving the same roles. 
The 586 seems like it has never been able to fill the 585/595 role. 
The 695 is out of $$$ for most and too proprietary. 

Look needs to just make a great basic frame without being a "module" or proprietary parts. 

Both the 566 and 586 are missing from Look France website, so maybe something is up. 

BTW, where has Justin been?


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## hawker12

I hate to be a jerk here and no offense to anyone...but as a long time rider but new to the world of LOOK, I have to say that following the progrression of frames and the numbering system...is mind boggling. I can see there is a "system" here but none the less unless you are a student in the world of LOOK, it can be a might confusing.


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## edk

hawker12 said:


> I hate to be a jerk here and no offense to anyone...but as a long time rider but new to the world of LOOK, I have to say that following the progrression of frames and the numbering system...is mind boggling. I can see there is a "system" here but none the less unless you are a student in the world of LOOK, it can be a might confusing.


Look XYZ

X = generation: 1 - 6, 6 is latest
Y = within it's generation ranking from basic model to most sophisticated: 1 - 9
Z = reference to type material/construction, for example 1 = carbon with alu lugs, 2= Titanium, 3 = Aluminium, 5 = carbon with carbon lugs, 6= time trail/monobloque carbon.


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## hawker12

edk said:


> Look XYZ
> 
> X = generation: 1 - 6, 6 is latest
> Y = within it's generation ranking from basic model to most sophisticated: 1 - 9
> Z = reference to type material/construction, for example 1 = carbon with alu lugs, 2= Titanium, 3 = Aluminium, 5 = carbon with carbon lugs, 6= time trail/monobloque carbon.


Many thanks. Now I'll put together a spread sheet.


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## vetboy

edk said:


> Look XYZ
> 
> X = generation: 1 - 6, 6 is latest
> Y = within it's generation ranking from basic model to most sophisticated: 1 - 9
> Z = reference to type material/construction, for example 1 = carbon with alu lugs, 2= Titanium, 3 = Aluminium, 5 = carbon with carbon lugs, 6= time trail/monobloque carbon.


But my 695 has no lugs?


----------



## robdamanii

And where is the "7" for the 675?


----------



## justin.

tranzformer said:


> Unfortunately in a day and age of world wide economic depression/recession and companies trying to keep up with inflation by nickeling and diming on warranty issues or stock build options, we won't see a resurgence of the 585 or 595 imo. I wish that wasn't the case. But lugged frames are expensive to build when they can build a mold frame in Asia for a fraction of the cost.


I have expressed to LCI that there is a still strong following for the 595/585 frames, and would they consider putting those back into a limited production run with updates (internal cable routing/Di2 compatible). I really do not see it happening, but I tried. 

I really do not think we "nickel and dime" on our warranty either. As for LOOK USA, I feel we are pretty accommodating on both frame and pedal warranty issues. 

We do make our own molds. And those molds are in our own LOOK factory, with LOOK employee's building LOOK frames. Our monocoque frames take a long, long time to make. Its not really any easier or more difficult than the lugged frames. Its more of a progression forward with technology and ride quality.


----------



## justin.

maximum7 said:


> Look needs to eliminate either the 566 or the 675. After the above review and the published reviews, they seem like they are serving the same roles.


Eh, sort of. The front end of the 675 is much more responsive than the 566. The 675 is more of the Grand Fondo/Classics type of bike. I'm told that Cofidis will be riding the 675 in events such as Paris Roubaix. 



maximum7 said:


> The 695 is out of $$$ for most and too proprietary.


Well, thats the idea, but the only things you are sort of forced to use are the forks and seat post, in one form or another. There is an adaptor for the BB to run whatever cranks you wish, and you can use any 1 1/18" stem you want. Its no secret, Cofidis has used SRM's and aluminum stems from time to time. 



maximum7 said:


> Look needs to just make a great basic frame without being a "module" or proprietary parts.


You never know whats around the corner?



maximum7 said:


> BTW, where has Justin been?


Interbike prep, Interbike, Interbike recovery. Sorry, it takes a lot out of me.


----------



## BrunoLuong

The 595 has internal cable. The mococoque technique exists before the 585/595, such as the time trial such as 486. The I'm not sure in which sense this technology can be considered as advanced compared to lugged frame ? At least not as progress in time. It seems that the 595 are built in France, and the 695 are in Tunisia. I suspect that the monocoque is more suitable for abroad factory implementation. But it's just a guess. Best regards


----------



## robdamanii

justin. said:


> I have expressed to LCI that there is a still strong following for the 595/585 frames, and would they consider putting those back into a limited production run with updates (internal cable routing/Di2 compatible). I really do not see it happening, but I tried.
> 
> I really do not think we "nickel and dime" on our warranty either. As for LOOK USA, I feel we are pretty accommodating on both frame and pedal warranty issues.
> 
> We do make our own molds. And those molds are in our own LOOK factory, with LOOK employee's building LOOK frames. Our monocoque frames take a long, long time to make. Its not really any easier or more difficult than the lugged frames. *Its more of a progression forward with technology and ride quality.*


Not to be snarky about it, but the ride quality of the 695, 675 and 566 really doesn't hold a candle to that of the 585/595. And I'm not necessarily sure that the modular kind of concept is a progression in technology.

Either way, it's awesome that you put the bug in the ear of the bosses. I'd love to see updated colors and even a few new innovations for a new run of 585/595s.


----------



## vetboy

robdamanii said:


> Not to be snarky about it, but the ride quality of the 695, 675 and 566 really doesn't hold a candle to that of the 585/595. And I'm not necessarily sure that the modular kind of concept is a progression in technology.
> 
> Either way, it's awesome that you put the bug in the ear of the bosses. I'd love to see updated colors and even a few new innovations for a new run of 585/595s.


Never ridden a 585/595, but my 695 ride quality is waayyy better than my 481SL - seems like progress to me.


----------



## BrunoLuong

justin. said:


> Well, thats the idea, but the only things you are sort of forced to use are the forks and seat post, in one form or another. There is an adaptor for the BB to run whatever cranks you wish, and you can use any 1 1/18" stem you want. Its no secret, Cofidis has used SRM's and aluminum stems from time to time.


 It's good to know, but look website doesn't make it clear. The website presents exclusively 695 in packs form including stem and crank. I must admit that the 695 is not attractive to me as other previous generations (I'm a longtime look fan) for these reasons : - forcing the integration. Customize a bike is much more fun to me. - Couldn't find a correct fit between S size (too high head tube) and XS (too small reach). - I'm still not getting use to the esthetic of the top tube. - Not building in France. Fortunately my 595 still runs strong after 5 years. I consider to switch to Time if nothing changes, but this move will make me unhappy. Just wonder, if someone has a market share curves or sale numbers of Look brand in the last 10 year ? How is the evolution ? Bruno


----------



## justin.

BrunoLuong said:


> I must admit that the 695 is not attractive to me as other previous generations (I'm a longtime look fan) for these reasons : - forcing the integration. Customize a bike is much more fun to me. - Couldn't find a correct fit between S size (too high head tube) and XS (too small reach). - I'm still not getting use to the esthetic of the top tube. - Not building in France.


One of the things I learned over the years is that LOOK is not a marketing driven brand. Its a technology driven brand. Changes are only made if it makes sense and the end result is a better product. LOOK does not rely on marketing jargon to sell bikes or pedals. Its the innovation, and the customers that enjoy and appreciate that innovation. When I started here I enjoyed the 585 and 595, but I'd never go back after the time I've spent on a 695.

I agree that integration is scary for a lot of people. Other industry's have gone through the integration growing pains. I remember trying to sell skis with integrated riser plates. Skiers hated being forced to think a different way regarding how their bindings interacted with the flex pattern of the ski itself (not to mention how their boots fit into the equation). These opinions are not an easy thing to over come, but when different pieces of the puzzle are designed to work together seamlessly, I find the resistance to integration a little silly. Most of it seems to stem from the fear of fitment issues. If I can fit my 5 foot tall wife to a 695, anything is possible. Its going to be a ridiculously rare case that your fit is so special, that your only option is a custom built frame from Zinn/Seven/IF/etc...


----------



## BrunoLuong

Dear Justin, The problem with Integration is not technique. The drawback is it get away from industry standard. As soon as the product ends, users will have difficulty to maintain the bike he/she bought. Not mentioning customize it. What if I want a more comfortable full carbon stem? a strong sprinter who prefer a rock solid stem? Some one who like to adjust the Q factor of the crank? Someone who prefer to ride on a crank longer than the 3 lengths look offer? If the C-stem is compatible with industry standard, why don't look offer the stem alone (like pedal)? And is there any other reasons but commercial of presenting the 695 aero using helicopter? And what about a non sense video of Cofidis guys running the thing on a magnicourt car track? The Keo Blade with scarified reliability, trading a continuous for discrete spring release force is also odd. The advantage is a frank clip (a gesture that a riders do only twice during one ride) is another strange technology advance to me. Best regards, Bruno


----------



## vetboy

BrunoLuong said:


> Dear Justin, The problem with Integration is not technique. The drawback is it get away from industry standard. As soon as the product ends, users will have difficulty to maintain the bike he/she bought. Not mentioning customize it. What if I want a more comfortable full carbon stem? a strong sprinter who prefer a rock solid stem? Some one who like to adjust the Q factor of the crank? Someone who prefer to ride on a crank longer than the 3 lengths look offer? If the C-stem is compatible with industry standard, why don't look offer the stem alone (like pedal)? And is there any other reasons but commercial of presenting the 695 aero using helicopter? And what about a non sense video of Cofidis guys running the thing on a magnicourt car track? The Keo Blade with scarified reliability, trading a continuous for discrete spring release force is also odd. The advantage is a frank clip (a gesture that a riders do only twice during one ride) is another strange technology advance to me. Best regards, Bruno


Hey Bruno

Would change your opinion if I told you that you could use any stem with the 695 (you can)? Or that you can use whatever crank you want (I use a Quarq power meter on mine). It's amazing how many people have a negative opinion of the 695's "integration" without actually knowing anything about the subject. If you want "industry standard" on a 695, go ahead and put it on.

Couldn't understand what you were trying to say about the blade, but I have been using mine reliably for over three years - over 30000km and many races - no issues yet.

Sounds like you just don't like Look.

Joe


----------



## BrunoLuong

vetboy said:


> Hey Bruno Would change your opinion if I told you that you could use any stem with the 695 (you can)? Or that you can use whatever crank you want (I use a Quarq power meter on mine). It's amazing how many people have a negative opinion of the 695's "integration" without actually knowing anything about the subject. If you want "industry standard" on a 695, go ahead and put it on. Couldn't understand what you were trying to say about the blade, but I have been using mine reliably for over three years - over 30000km and many races - no issues yet. Sounds like you just don't like Look. Joe


 Joe I have look bike for more than 15 years and still riding my 595. Just go to the web site, can you find 695 alone without crank and stem? Few year backs Look offer the stem alone (the ugly thing with two rotation axis), it never pick-up on the market. Now they just force user to the C-stem. I never see anyone sale the 695 frame without stem and crank. Second. Why should I need an adaptor for the standard crank? Where is the description on Look website? How much weight it adds? Does it negate the rigidity of the bb? Have you seen any test ride of 695 without the integration? Look at the gentleman who couldn't find the moon-shape insert of his stem. I don't like such trouble happens to me when the 695 is no longer in sale. As for the blade pedal. I have read few people that has the broken pedal body. Never saw that on the steel spring. IIRC, the keo power pedal uses the steel spring. Can you explain me why they don't put the carbon blade on this >$1000 pedal? The carbon blade is pure marketing too me. The technical does not justify the carbon blade. Bruno


----------



## vetboy

BrunoLuong said:


> Joe I have look bike for more than 15 years and still riding my 595. Just go to the web site, can you find 695 alone without crank and stem? Few year backs Look offer the stem alone (the ugly thing with two rotation axis), it never pick-up on the market. Now they just force user to the C-stem. I never see anyone sale the 695 frame without stem and crank. Second. Why should I need an adaptor for the standard crank? Where is the description on Look website? How much weight it adds? Does it negate the rigidity of the bb? Have you seen any test ride of 695 without the integration? Look at the gentleman who couldn't find the moon-shape insert of his stem. I don't like such trouble happens to me when the 695 is no longer in sale. As for the blade pedal. I have read few people that has the broken pedal body. Never saw that on the steel spring. IIRC, the keo power pedal uses the steel spring. Can you explain me why they don't put the carbon blade on this >$1000 pedal? The carbon blade is pure marketing too me. The technical does not justify the carbon blade. Bruno


So you are aware that Look doesn't force the integration, but chose to characterize it that way anyway. Maybe worse than being uninformed. 

I saw a broken Dura Ace crank once. Never saw a broken SRAM crank. So I guess Dura Ace is crap and SRAM is not. Using your pedal logic anyway. 

Admit it - for whatever reason you don't like look and chose to crap all over them here. 

Joe


----------



## robdamanii

vetboy said:


> So you are aware that Look doesn't force the integration, but chose to characterize it that way anyway. Maybe worse than being uninformed.
> 
> I saw a broken Dura Ace crank once. Never saw a broken SRAM crank. So I guess Dura Ace is crap and SRAM is not. Using your pedal logic anyway.
> 
> Admit it - for whatever reason you don't like look and chose to crap all over them here.
> 
> Joe


I'm not Bruno, but I too dislike where Look has gone. The monocoque designs are just hideous (imo anyway) and they are nothing like the fine machines they used to produce. There was something magical about the 585/595, both from a ride quality and finishing standpoint that I've never found to be true with their newer offerings.

I love my 585. I don't ever wish to retire it. But if I do, I'll be either finding a NOS 585/595 or moving to a Colnago C59 or Parlee.


----------



## vetboy

robdamanii said:


> I'm not Bruno, but I too dislike where Look has gone. The monocoque designs are just hideous (imo anyway) and they are nothing like the fine machines they used to produce. There was something magical about the 585/595, both from a ride quality and finishing standpoint that I've never found to be true with their newer offerings.
> 
> I love my 585. I don't ever wish to retire it. But if I do, I'll be either finding a NOS 585/595 or moving to a Colnago C59 or Parlee.


And that I can respect. If you don't like it, you don't like it. But what he tried to do was characterize the 695 as something it was not.


----------



## spdntrxi

the 695 is the best bike I've ridden... now I want the Aerolight.


----------



## BrunoLuong

vetboy said:


> And that I can respect. If you don't like it, you don't like it. But what he tried to do was characterize the 695 as something it was not.


 Calm down. I stand by what I wrote (and these are facts): - I went to a look dealer, they have a S-size 695 with crank and stem for ~ $4000 euros. They refuse to sale the frame alone. - When someone visit Look website, the 695 is presented in "pack" form Look Cycle - 695 Light - Cadres - Route - Monocoque design is no attractive to me (I prefer lugged one) - The toptube is ugly - The factory is in Tunisia, in France they only paint it. My 595 is entirely built in France. - 4000 euros? What justifies it? How much it costs the stem? The ZED crank? - The S-size which corresponds to 51 cm frame according to Look, is what I use up to now with many generations of lugged frame. The headtube length is 140mm, whereas my 595 (and previous) has a heattube of < 125 mm. I don't know why Look changes it, may be this is something related to the monoque design? I'm afraid I can't get my handle bar low enough. So I joint other people here : please bring back the 585/595. Otherwise I'll rather shop the Time frame. As for the reliability issue of the Keo Blade, look at the thread here : http://forums.roadbikereview.com/look/look-keo-blade-12nm-vs-16nm-290021.html Never saw something like that with the Keo standard/max. Bruno


----------



## vetboy

BrunoLuong said:


> Calm down. I stand by what I wrote (and these are facts): - I went to a look dealer, they have a S-size 695 with crank and stem for ~ $4000 euros. They refuse to sale the frame alone. - When someone visit Look website, the 695 is presented in "pack" form Look Cycle - 695 Light - Cadres - Route - Monocoque design is no attractive to me (I prefer lugged one) - The toptube is ugly - The factory is in Tunisia, in France they only paint it. My 595 is entirely built in France. - 4000 euros? What justifies it? How much it costs the stem? The ZED crank? - The S-size which corresponds to 51 cm frame according to Look, is what I use up to now with many generations of lugged frame. The headtube length is 140mm, whereas my 595 (and previous) has a heattube of < 125 mm. I don't know why Look changes it, may be this is something related to the monoque design? I'm afraid I can't get my handle bar low enough. So I joint other people here : please bring back the 585/595. Otherwise I'll rather shop the Time frame. As for the reliability issue of the Keo Blade, look at the thread here : http://forums.roadbikereview.com/look/look-keo-blade-12nm-vs-16nm-290021.html Never saw something like that with the Keo standard/max. Bruno


You tried to buy one?!?


----------



## BrunoLuong

vetboy said:


> You tried to buy one?!?


 Yes. Bruno


----------



## sp3000

I just rode an event in the most brutal conditions I have ever ridden, 37 degrees C, 75km/h head wind, 132.5km. The wind was so strong that in my group (that had been decimated already) we could only push 10-11km/h into the wind, one of the guys got blown off the road and crashed into a ditch. My 585 never let me down and after a grueling 5hrs:51min I was done. My back, neck, shoulders felt great, the fit and comfort of the 585 is second to none. 
To Justin, put me on the list of people that are prepared to pre-order a new limited production 585 frame with Di2 wiring. I will put money down upfront.


----------



## maximum7

First off, Justin I'm glad you're still here. I was worried as you hadn't been around for a while. 
I for one appreciate your insight that you give and the help you have given others. 
Thank you! 

Moving on... 
I haven't been on a 695. I haven't even been on a 586. Looks second "non-lugged" frame towards the end 58595 era. 
I will tell you I was pleasantly surprised at how good the 566 rides. It is stiff enough for me and very smooth. Better than the 555 I had which was their first new-era "non-lugged" frame. Yes, it's not the snappiest or the quickest feeling frame, but it rides darn good and it makes me wonder how much better the 695 is than my 585. 
Sure I'm pissed as hell that they don't make a 58595 equivalent, but I guess I can't pass real judgment on the 695 until I have been on one. 
I could also care less where the heck it's made. As long as it's designed by Look and is made to Look's specifications, who cares if it's made in Look's factory in Tunisia/Asia. Almost every high-end brand is doing the same thing. 

I agree that they should just offer that frame without the stem, or crank. 

I also think that they need to offer a new mid-tier bike soon. VERY SOON. 

I love that Look is an innovator. I like that they don't put out new models based on hyperbole every year. 
BUT I don't like that I can't find a Look dealer within 3 hours of me. That dealers tell me they couldn't sell them when they had them. 
That, if I could buy a 695, I would have to find a shop willing to deal with the innovations they have no training for. 
I don't like that I live in the city voted best in America for cycling and there is not a Look dealer. 
I hated the time someone in my club asked what Look was and if I got it at Performance Bike and then proceeded to talk about wanting a Pinarello they saw in a shop in town. 

In the end, it's just a bike to ride. I am lucky to have stumbled on test riding one and fortunate that I own two.


----------



## pato46

*Some info background please!*

Interesting thread here. I recently demoed a 586UD and loved the smooth ride and responsiveness but not the fit: stack is too short for my stiff back. 566 would probably fit me better but the so-so reviews of it leave me cold. I'm old, lightweight, and no racer but appreciate a good ride. 

Only one shop in town (Boulder CO) carries Look, with few choices at that, so in case I run across a used one for sale on EB, CL, or RBR I'd appreciate some background info to help me evaluate likely fit and suitability from a distance.

Could you folks give me some background about:
-- Meaning of "NOS"?
-- Geometry of 585 and 595 frames, esp. size M and maybe S?
-- Differences between 585 and 595.

Thanks for all help.
Don


----------



## robdamanii

NOS = New Old Stock.

595 is an integrated seat mast version of the 585 (in very simplistic terms.)

Geometry for both can be found through google.


----------



## BrunoLuong

pato46 said:


> -- Differences between 585 and 595. Don


 Beside the integrated seatpost, the 595 has tubes with cross sections in the fancy shapes and diameters. The 585 has round tubes I believe. They have same geometry. Please contact me, I can send you a pdf files of 595 if wished. Bruno


----------



## tranzformer

justin. said:


> When I started here I enjoyed the 585 and 595, but I'd never go back after the time I've spent on a 695.


Not sure if you are toeing the company line, but I would have to say you are one of the very few I have heard ever say that. Ever. I have both a 585 and a 595. I will never ever give either one of those up. I will ride them until the carbon self destructs or something else happens to the frame. They are hands down 2 of the best frames I have ever ridden from any manufacturer and definitely the best Look has ever produced up to this point. I have spent some time riding a 695 and I'm not impressed with it. That frame doesn't hold light to the 585/595 frames in terms of comfort, ride quality or stiffness. The 695 was a large step backwards in my opinion. I use to have a local shop that carried Look products back when the 585/595 was still being produced. Now I have no Look dealer even close to me. Shop owner even said when Look went the 695 route the demand that was fairly limited but still there with the 585/595 went to basically nothing. Then eventually dropped to zero and the shop dropped Look from their lineup. 

Justin, the 585/595 were and are special. I know you realize this or else you wouldn't have contacted the mother ship Look to see if they would ever do a limited run. Just by the comments on this forum you can see the love for the 585/595. Go to some of the other big road bike forums, and that same love would be echoed there. 

I could almost guarantee that if Look brought back the 585/595 with maybe being Di2 ready/other 'modern' update that it would be very popular. If it was a limited run of 100-200 frames it would likely sell out very fast. If it was a most substantial production run I could see it equaling or exceeding the 695. 

I have zero interest in a 695 based on my experience with that bike. Bring out a new 585/595 and I would buy one of each to replace my current steeds when they need replacement. That is how good of a frame they are. 





robdamanii said:


> I'm not Bruno, but I too dislike where Look has gone. The monocoque designs are just hideous (imo anyway) and they are nothing like the fine machines they used to produce. There was something magical about the 585/595, both from a ride quality and finishing standpoint that I've never found to be true with their newer offerings.
> 
> I love my 585. I don't ever wish to retire it. But if I do, I'll be either finding a NOS 585/595 or moving to a Colnago C59 or Parlee.


I'm exactly there with you Rob. Colnago C59 or a Parlee are two of the few frames that could tempt me away from a 585/595. Unfortunately the number of NOS 585/595 is getting even smaller. 



sp3000 said:


> I just rode an event in the most brutal conditions I have ever ridden, 37 degrees C, 75km/h head wind, 132.5km. The wind was so strong that in my group (that had been decimated already) we could only push 10-11km/h into the wind, one of the guys got blown off the road and crashed into a ditch. My 585 never let me down and after a grueling 5hrs:51min I was done. My back, neck, shoulders felt great, the fit and comfort of the 585 is second to none.
> To Justin, put me on the list of people that are prepared to pre-order a new limited production 585 frame with Di2 wiring. I will put money down upfront.


This story of yours in terms of still being comfortable and not in pain after a brutal ride is echoed again and again with the 585. By far one of the greatest aspects the frame offers. 

You aren't the only one that would put money down upfront for that. :thumbsup:




robdamanii said:


> Not to be snarky about it, but the ride quality of the 695, 675 and 566 really doesn't hold a candle to that of the 585/595. And I'm not necessarily sure that the modular kind of concept is a progression in technology.


Rob, I don't think you are being snarky at all in terms of what you wrote. The 585/595 just happen to be the best frames Look ever made and the latest generation of frames have taken a step backwards. 

I also don't think the lack of love on here for the 695 is because it is modular (although that might be at play for some). I just don't think many of us like the ride of the 695 compared to the 585/595 nor think it is better.


----------



## hawker12

I thought I'd post my question here...since there seems to be so much passion. I just purchased an NOS 585 Optimum in XS size. I have not yet received it but plan on building it with Dura-Ace. If it fits and I really like it then I may consider Campy for the the first time ever. However my question for y'all is; do you have a carbon seat post recommendation? I need zero setback and have never used a carbon post, so not sure where to start?

Let me say that the info and comments I have found in this sub-forum is a major reason I ended up spending way more money than intended. There is a chance this frame may not fit me...if so, I'll be back with a for-sale offer. 

Thanks
Steve


----------



## pato46

The more love you folks show for 585/595 frames, the more envy I feel for life-changing things and events I'll forever miss -- kind of like friends talking about mind-blowing Grateful Dead shows they were at and I wasn't. (True, the Dead's music wasn't the only thing blowing minds those nights.)

But anyway:
-- Have any of you ridden the current 586 UD (with removable seat post) for comparison to the 585? Comparative impressions?
-- Have any of you ridden current models of performance/comfort ("Grand Fondo"-oriented) bikes such as Trek Domane, Giant Defy Advanced, Specialized SL4 Roubaix, Colnago CLX 3.0, etc? Comparative impressions?

For anyone with enough clout to persuade Look to build new 585 frames, I'd appreciate your adding a request to build some frames with 585 construction but taller 566 geometry for stiff-backed geezers like me.

Don


----------



## tranzformer

pato46 said:


> The more love you folks show for 585/595 frames, the more envy I feel for life-changing things and events I'll forever miss -- kind of like friends talking about mind-blowing Grateful Dead shows they were at and I wasn't. (True, the Dead's music wasn't the only thing blowing minds those nights.)
> 
> But anyway:
> -- Have any of you ridden the current 586 UD (with removable seat post) for comparison to the 585? Comparative impressions?
> -- Have any of you ridden current models of performance/comfort ("Grand Fondo"-oriented) bikes such as Trek Domane, Giant Defy Advanced, Specialized SL4 Roubaix, Colnago CLX 3.0, etc? Comparative impressions?
> 
> For anyone with enough clout to persuade Look to build new 585 frames, I'd appreciate your adding a request to build some frames with 585 construction but taller 566 geometry for stiff-backed geezers like me.
> 
> Don



I have not ridden the current 586 with the removable seat post. However I did own a 2008 586 with the ISP for a little until I sold it for a 585. The 586 was 'nice' but I thought it was lacking in BB and front end stiffness. I think the size medium frame I had came in right around 1000g, so plenty light. I just liked the 595 Ultra I had better and wanted to replace the 586 as I wasn't completely happy with it. I'm not sure how the current 586 UD with the removable seatpost compares. 

Sorry, I haven't ridden any of those frames you listed so can't help you compare them. But the new Cannondale Synapse HM carbon looks really nice. 

I haven't looked at the geometry of the 566 is a long time, but I want to say the 585 Optimum would have a very similar geometry as the Optimum had a shorter TT and a taller HT compared to the regular 585. That would probably do the trick for you.


----------



## BrunoLuong

I believe the "585 Elle" has the same geometry as "585 optimum". They must be two commercial names of the same product. Bruno


----------



## maximum7

The Elle indeed has the same geo as the 585 Optimum. Elle was the women's version.


----------



## maximum7

dup post


----------



## BrunoLuong

maximum7 said:


> Elle was the women's version.


 "Elle" means "she".


----------



## maximum7

BrunoLuong said:


> "Elle" means "she".


You are correct sir.


----------



## crewman

I am running a Ritchey Carbon post on my 585 Optimum with no issues. They do have one with a zero offset. 
WCS Carbon 1-Bolt ? 0mm offset ? UD


----------



## hawker12

Thanks, I'll check it out. Ultimately I may stay with my Thomson Masterpiece. It is also very light and I do like he two bolt micro-adjustment.


----------



## tranzformer

There is a used 585 frameset on eBay for $750. If that is a legit posting someone is going to get a great deal. The frame has seen betters days , but not something that couldn't be fixed with a little time. The price is great if true, especially if you could drop it some more through the best offer. 

Gorgeous Handmade in France Look 585 Carbon Frameset MSRP $3 000 | eBay


----------



## crewman

I do not think this frame is an Optimum. The head tube on the optimum extends more above the top tube. Also they usually say optimum on the frame somewhere. Mine is on the top tube.


----------



## robdamanii

Looks exactly like my 585 Origin. Hmm...If I were to need a race bike....


----------



## tranzformer

robdamanii said:


> Looks exactly like my 585 Origin. Hmm...If I were to need a race bike....



Exactly. Or just as a spare/bad weather bike.


----------



## bikerjulio

After all that I just had to buy that nice looking 585 frame on the 'bay.

As though I needed another nice bike. 

Campy 10 probably, and I just built some Archetype wheels.


----------



## hawker12

No pic?


----------



## bikerjulio

hawker12 said:


> No pic?


since you asked..............


----------



## oldroadie_nc

Very nice! Congrats!!


----------



## bikerjulio

Been stuck inside for weeks so this is the result!

Been looking for one of these for a while.

I've got a new set of H+Son Archetypes I just built for something to do, Deda bar, stem and seatpost, and a Campy record 10-spd group waiting.

It's been the worst winter ever here in Toronto because of the ice everywhere. So I end up shopping.


----------



## HammerTime-TheOriginal

justin. said:


> One of the things I learned over the years is that LOOK is not a marketing driven brand. Its a technology driven brand. Changes are only made if it makes sense and the end result is a better product. LOOK does not rely on marketing jargon to sell bikes or pedals. Its the innovation, and the customers that enjoy and appreciate that innovation. ...





thien on July 23 said:


> The "kink" in the top tube is something the designers at LOOK are using in all new framesets to differentiate their brand from others. It's purely aesthetic...


thien was a Look employee.


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## sp3000

yep!


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## bikerjulio

Frame arrived and it's pretty nice.

I'd had a concern about rear tire clearance since reading some old review complaining about it.

Well the Archetype with 25mm PR's fits just fine with plenty of clearance.

Build is underway.


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## bikerjulio

Here it is. No chance to ride since we are still in the deep freeze. Wheels not ridden yet either.

2010 LOOK 585 Origin in XL size. (the last year for 585).

Wheel bits from BHS. Mixed Campy 10-speed group. Deda bar, stem and seatpost.

Worst. Winter. Ever.


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## bikerjulio

sorry, duplicate post.

some threads don't show all posts, and you have to go back and click "more posts below".

I don't understand why some threads do this and others don't.


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## tranzformer

I sure wish Look USA would listen to its customers and send word back to the mothership about bringing back lugged carbon frames. I won't ride or upgrade to any of the new Look monocoque frames. 595 and 585 for life. Hope they hold up and I don't crash them.


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## bikerjulio

Confused again by posts not showing at the bottom of this thread. 

Now that I've had a chance to ride it, I'd say it's become my joint number 1 bike. The Archetype wheels worked out very nicely too.


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## axel23

tranzformer said:


> I sure wish Look USA would listen to its customers and send word back to the mothership about bringing back lugged carbon frames. I won't ride or upgrade to any of the new Look monocoque frames. 595 and 585 for life. Hope they hold up and I don't crash them.


Definitely. Lots of support for this. And as others have pointed out, the same goes for the Colnago C40s and C50s. I guess there's something special about lugged carbon frames...


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## hawker12

Just now realized I never followed up on my above post in late 2013. I did indeed buy the XS frame in the picture and it fits me perfectly. By far the best bike I have ever owned and ridden, love it in every way. Smooth, handles great, comfortable and very light with all DA components. A joy to ride.


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## WR74

Ok, can anyone perhaps say what would be the equivalent model in the LOOK range today for the 585?
I've had mine for about 3 years now, our insurance however works on a new for old basis, so I would need to benchmark against what the equivalent LOOK model would be today and insure my bike for that replacement cost.
thanks


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## j.knight

tranzformer said:


> I sure wish Look USA would listen to its customers and send word back to the mothership about bringing back lugged carbon frames. I won't ride or upgrade to any of the new Look monocoque frames. 595 and 585 for life. Hope they hold up and I don't crash them.


These appear on ebay from time to time. Here is one with a pretty low buy it now price.


Look 595 M Carbon Fiber Frame and Fork | eBay


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## abstrack

Here's one for sale from SF Bay Area CraigsList for a medium size, black 585 frame:

Look 585 Ultra Frameset size medium

(I have no relation to seller or otherwise)


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## maximum7

Try here. No 585's but some 586's and 595's. 

You have to scroll down. 
https://www.racycles.com/outlet/road


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## 1synergy

*Love my Look 585*

Ok sounds soppy But I love love love love love absolution love my 2008 Look 585 to death. Just came back from a lovely evening ride after installing some loving 10,000km Maintenance (new chain, new cable kit, new Saddle and finally got round to replacing FAS carbon bars with correct size 42's not 44's) I've been riding her for over 6 years now. At the same time also owned and ridden a 2010 Giant SL Advance TCR, 2011 Giant TCR Advanced and tried to replace her in 2013 with a Look 675 (horrible :cryin:slow mule - road 3000km across France with it - slow) and currently have a BMC Team Machine SLR01 which just meets similar performance requirements and possible beats the look in a sprint line speed - but only just. 

I seem to bounce on the saddle riding the above bikes. First ride on the look 675 felt slow. I even stopped to check if the crank arms were incorrect size 165 not 172.5mm. Ended up ditching the frame for the BMC 

Even using heavy Mavic training wheels, My look 585 seams to just float. Up hills the tail can swing about in rhythm - making hill climbing a breeze. Along the straights, legs stoke the peddles in long swings similar rhythm motion for enjoyable straight line speed for ultra long distances. Fly’s in a sprint. The lugged 585 carbon frame with supper lite forks provides amazing confront on rough roads.

I’m not sure if I will ever be able to replace as the new monolithic carbon build frames just don’t cut it. Many be the carbon Lug Colonago C50 / C60’s will provide the same ride . Not sure? . Hitting 30,000Km on the 585 I am worried about the life span of carbon - Clear coat is coming off - A crack inside the seat down tube below the clamp split creaks a bit over bumps. Speeds down the French alps hit 80-90Km - my life depends on carbon integrity 

If anyone see's a low KM, unused, mint Black 585 Optimum size M Frame or a bike I can strip, please post a heads up. 

Roadie for 35 years, Riding Looks for 16 years now! (KX 261, KX Lite, 555, 585, 675)


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## DLB

Hello all. I'm getting off of the road and have a LOOK 585 Origin Frame for sale in the classified section. Size small (51cm). Located in North Carolina, USA.


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