# Recommended Chiain oil that won't harm Carbon Fiber wheels?



## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

Was just wondering, is there any chain lube that is safe for carbon fiber wheels? The one I have has discolored my decals and is there any way to clean the decals without having to replace them?


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Not the lube*



jwk said:


> Was just wondering, is there any chain lube that is safe for carbon fiber wheels? The one I have has discolored my decals and is there any way to clean the decals without having to replace them?


It's very unlikely it was the lube specifically, but the contaminated lube is very black due to finely ground metal and other junk. The lube simply served to carry the color into your decals. The lube is not harming the CF wheels at all. Soap and water would be the first step to clean your decals. If that doesn't work, something like odorless mineral spirits on a Q-tip would be worth a try. You have to make sure the solvent only gets on the discolored spots because it can dissolve the adhesive and remove the decal from the wheel.


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## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

Kerry Irons said:


> It's very unlikely it was the lube specifically, but the contaminated lube is very black due to finely ground metal and other junk. The lube simply served to carry the color into your decals. The lube is not harming the CF wheels at all. Soap and water would be the first step to clean your decals. If that doesn't work, something like odorless mineral spirits on a Q-tip would be worth a try. You have to make sure the solvent only gets on the discolored spots because it can dissolve the adhesive and remove the decal from the wheel.


Hey Kerry, wow good call. The lube was black and had a shotgun splatter pattern. The lube I used is T9 and says, "contains Patrolium dissilutes" so that was why I was concerned it could harm the carbon part. but I guess maybe I should switch to chain wax


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## flatsix911 (Jun 28, 2009)

Tri-Flow :thumbsup:


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

jwk said:


> Hey Kerry, wow good call. The lube was black and had a shotgun splatter pattern. The lube I used is T9 and says, "contains Patrolium dissilutes" so that was why I was concerned it could harm the carbon part. but I guess maybe I should switch to *chain wax*


nooooooooooooo...wax is for candles. you want chain 'lube', not wax.


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## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> nooooooooooooo...wax is for candles. you want chain 'lube', not wax.


I was going to use my motorcycle chain wax on my bicycle chain. I think possibly the splatter I am getting is not from the T9 lube but could be the fact I used a degreaser on my sprocket cassette and that is flinging onto my wheels. I know the degreaser I use is safe for carbon but can discolor decals


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

jwk said:


> I was going to use my motorcycle chain wax on my bicycle chain. I think possibly the splatter I am getting is not from the T9 lube but could be the fact I used a degreaser on my sprocket cassette and that is flinging onto my wheels. I know the degreaser I use is safe for carbon but can discolor decals


you're riding a bicycle, not a motorcycle. use BICYCLE lubricant, or make your own from OMS and motor oil. moto chain wax/lube is designed w/ much higher temperatures and harsher conditions in mind. please, don't use that stuff on your bike. and if you do, don't EVER bring it in to my shop when it needs a thorough cleaning.


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## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> you're riding a bicycle, not a motorcycle. use BICYCLE lubricant, or make your own from OMS and motor oil. moto chain wax/lube is designed w/ much higher temperatures and harsher conditions in mind. please, don't use that stuff on your bike. and if you do, don't EVER bring it in to my shop when it needs a thorough cleaning.


Good point and I will be sure not to use that. By the way, I saw someone with the same SRAM S80's like mine. I was amazed how strong those wheels are. He said he hit two huge potholes where it blew out both tires but the wheels were still true. I thought carbon fiber aluminum clinchers were wimpy wheels but evidently I was wrong. Well I am going to use the T9 lube I have that is designed for bikes but again, worried that the petrolian dissilutes can harm my carbon fiber.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

T-9 works okay on chains, but it wasn't "designed for bikes." Boeing developed it as a protectant/lubricant for corrosion-prone environments. To me, it's a little gloppy and sticky to be ideal. Seems to attract more dirt than some lubes.

How will you ride when your beautiful wheels are dirty? Seems like it would break your spirit entirely.


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## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

JCavilia said:


> T-9 works okay on chains, but it wasn't "designed for bikes." Boeing developed it as a protectant/lubricant for corrosion-prone environments. To me, it's a little gloppy and sticky to be ideal. Seems to attract more dirt than some lubes.
> 
> How will you ride when your beautiful wheels are dirty? Seems like it would break your spirit entirely.


Nah, not too worried about that. Running marathons is my passion, not because I like running as I really hate it, but the only reason I am competing in marathons is for the competition and being able to show off. But my real enjoyment is biking and that is a lot more appealing than running which I find a bore but in a group it is fun.


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## savagemann (Dec 17, 2011)

If you're getting chain lube splattered on your rear wheel i would say you are over lubing, and or not wiping the excess lube off well enough.


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## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

savagemann said:


> If you're getting chain lube splattered on your rear wheel i would say you are over lubing, and or not wiping the excess lube off well enough.


Come to think of it, I think it is the degreaser I used to clean my cassette.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Wipe it*



jwk said:


> Come to think of it, I think it is the degreaser I used to clean my cassette.


It doesn't make any difference whether it was the degreaser or lube, you need to wipe it clean and let it dry before you ride. If you got the mess during the cleaning process, then try to be neater and maybe drape a rag over the decals on the rim.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

If you're getting chain lube on your wheel you are doing it wrong. Drape a rag over the wheel when you are lubing. You do not want to get chain lube on the brake track, it will contaminate your brake pads. Once you're done lubing the chain, wipe the excess off so it won't fling off on the wheel (and bike and your butt).

Motorcycle chain lube is designed to be sticky so it won't fly off the chain at speed. Motorcycle chains go a lot faster than bicycle chains. Dirt motorcycle chain lube is less sticky but it's still stickier than bicycle chain lube.


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## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> you're riding a bicycle, not a motorcycle. use BICYCLE lubricant, or make your own from OMS and motor oil. moto chain wax/lube is designed w/ much higher temperatures and harsher conditions in mind. please, don't use that stuff on your bike. and if you do, don't EVER bring it in to my shop when it needs a thorough cleaning.


hey CX, I have a question to ask you. I have been getting a lot of knee pain, not right after I ride but seems delayed like 4 hours later. I just watched a clip on sizing and evidently my hips were rocking to some degree from seat being too high. I lowered it to have the proper 15 degrees bend in knee. Do you think hips rocking caused my knees to ache? It was swollen from the hard peddling


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

jwk said:


> hey CX, I have a question to ask you. I have been getting a lot of knee pain, not right after I ride but seems delayed like 4 hours later. I just watched a clip on sizing and evidently my hips were rocking to some degree from seat being too high. I lowered it to have the proper 15 degrees bend in knee. Do you think hips rocking caused my knees to ache? It was swollen from the hard peddling


that could have caused the pain. i'd recommend finding someone close to you that has experience fitting cyclists and talk to them. but yes...too much leg extension can cause joint pain. maybe some of the more experienced fitter-types on here will chime in w/ their feeling on this as well.


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## agm2 (Sep 18, 2008)

savagemann said:


> If you're getting chain lube splattered on your rear wheel i would say you are over lubing, and or not wiping the excess lube off well enough.


I'm pretty sure this is it. Even, with using the degreaser there should never be enough lube on a chain to "fling" it onto the wheel.


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## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> that could have caused the pain. i'd recommend finding someone close to you that has experience fitting cyclists and talk to them. but yes...too much leg extension can cause joint pain. maybe some of the more experienced fitter-types on here will chime in w/ their feeling on this as well.


I will definitely give that a try. Either that or I will forever have to peddle in a low gear looking fast but going slow.


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## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

CW Wrench, I have a question for you. I wanted to get the Vision Tech Trimax semi intergrated aerobars but having never done this, was told I would have to replace my shifters, cables, and brake levers. The thought of replacing cables is not so difficult I think but getting and adjusting the derailers would be so hard if not impossible for me. How hard is it to do this? What about stem length and stuff like that?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

normally you'd want to pm a member for something like this, or start another thread. now we're going to talk about aerobars and fitting advice on a thread originally started about chain lube. 
you have a road bike, yeah? why do you want to try and turn into something it isn't by putting aerobars on it? if you want to have aerobars like the trimax, get a tt/tri frame to mount them on. i have no idea about what stem length you'd use, being that a) i've never met you nor seen what you look like (height, leg length, femur length, flexibility, etc, etc, etc) b) i have no idea what bike you're on nor what length and rise the stem you have on currently. 
there are dozens of places to look for directions on adjusting derailleurs and the like. but...you really need to think about this before you go buying aerobars for a regular road bike. there are significant geometry differences between road and tt/tri bikes, it's not just the fact that they have aero tubing shapes and aerobars.


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## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> normally you'd want to pm a member for something like this, or start another thread. now we're going to talk about aerobars and fitting advice on a thread originally started about chain lube.
> you have a road bike, yeah? why do you want to try and turn into something it isn't by putting aerobars on it? if you want to have aerobars like the trimax, get a tt/tri frame to mount them on. i have no idea about what stem length you'd use, being that a) i've never met you nor seen what you look like (height, leg length, femur length, flexibility, etc, etc, etc) b) i have no idea what bike you're on nor what length and rise the stem you have on currently.
> there are dozens of places to look for directions on adjusting derailleurs and the like. but...you really need to think about this before you go buying aerobars for a regular road bike. there are significant geometry differences between road and tt/tri bikes, it's not just the fact that they have aero tubing shapes and aerobars.


Well the one thing I did notice, by me moving my saddle all the way forward, my knees no longer hurt but moved my seat forward because they sad with clip on aerobars, you should move your seat forward. But my handling now seems weird as it no longer handles as well as it used to. I dropped my stem further down by flipping the stem washers. I am 5'10" tall but am afraid if I get these integrated aerobars, could it further move my weight forward? I would think not because I already have clipons. I should have gotton the speed concept by Trek but heard that bike has problems. what if I were to cut the bars just below the drop? I never use the lower drops so if I cut that, won't I then become a little more aerodynamic and lose some grams from cutting the bar drops just right below the brakes?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

oh man...the force is strong in this one. you have a ROAD bike. leave it alone. if you want to ride around in aerobars all the time, get a TIME TRIAL bike. you just said yourself when you moved the saddle forward the handling went out the window...don't make it worse by doing anything else. and for godsakes, don't cut the drops off of your road bars...that just looks stupid.
i've built more than a few speed concepts, and i don't have a clue what 'problems' you're talking about.


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## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> oh man...the force is strong in this one. you have a ROAD bike. leave it alone. if you want to ride around in aerobars all the time, get a TIME TRIAL bike. you just said yourself when you moved the saddle forward the handling went out the window...don't make it worse by doing anything else. and for godsakes, don't cut the drops off of your road bars...that just looks stupid.
> i've built more than a few speed concepts, and i don't have a clue what 'problems' you're talking about.


Yeah I think you are right. Cutting the bars will look tacky. The speed concept, heard the binder on seat fails and seat falls on first bump. The aluminum version is so heavy


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## marckap (Apr 12, 2008)

I use rock and roll gold lube exclusively on all of my bikes,no issues.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

I hope this guy doesn't get any chain lube on his aero bars. that will be one heck of a thread.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

JWK,

Move the decals to your aerobars?


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

*Tacko Bell*



jwk said:


> Yeah I think you are right. Cutting the bars will look tacky. The speed concept, heard the binder on seat fails and seat falls on first bump. The aluminum version is so heavy


Unlike this beauty, complete with bell:


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## reality_V2 (Jul 20, 2010)

tihsepa said:


> JWK,
> 
> Move the decals to your aerobars?


Or what appears to be a rear view mirror on the drops?

But on a slightly more serious note, any kind of dry (or extra dry lube) should help to reduce the amount of spitting that you seem to be having. Clean your chain (or just give it a quick wipe down) and make sure there's no excess and you should be good to go! :thumbsup:

On a completely serious note, JWK, can you please for the love of all things holy spend 30 seconds and read your posts before clicking the submit button. I know I can't be the only one on these forums that gets annoyed with all sorts of basic grammatical and spelling errors.


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## bernithebiker (Sep 26, 2011)

reality_V2 said:


> Or what appears to be a rear view mirror on the drops?
> 
> But on a slightly more serious note, any kind of dry (or extra dry lube) should help to reduce the amount of spitting that you seem to be having. Clean your chain (or just give it a quick wipe down) and make sure there's no excess and you should be good to go! :thumbsup:
> 
> On a completely serious note, JWK, can you please for the love of all things holy spend 30 seconds and read your posts before clicking the submit button. I know I can't be the only one on these forums that gets annoyed with all sorts of basic grammatical and spelling errors.


He can't answer as he's either ripping it up on his CBR or winning a marathon somewhere.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

bernithebiker said:


> He can't answer as he's either ripping it up on his CBR or winning a marathon somewhere.


That question was asked a while ago. He is already bored with his CBR and has one two marathons, bleached his wheel decals, waxed his tounge and will return shortly. It takes a while to think this crap up.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

tihsepa said:


> That question was asked a while ago. He is already bored with his CBR and has one two marathons, bleached his wheel decals, waxed his tounge and will return shortly. It takes a while to think this crap up.


cut him some slack, he's probably suffering from the effects of breathing all those 'Patrolium dissilutes'...


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

He's busy with his sweet new disc wheel build:


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## reality_V2 (Jul 20, 2010)

Dude..... if someone could make a bike that looked like that that didn't handle like complete crap I would ride it, haha.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Is this The Lounge?


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## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

Hey CXwrench, I have another question for you. My SRAM S80s have been getting very tiny small nicks and scratches from stones and other stuff. It irks me that SRAM should have painted the carbon wheel just like they apply paint to carbon frames. I mean, I only have 300 miles on them but thinking by the time I get 3000 miles, I will have so many nicks and scratches, eventually they will crack. They should have applied clearcoat or more decals to protect the bare carbon wouoldn't you think?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

jwk said:


> Hey CXwrench, I have another question for you. My SRAM S80s have been getting very tiny small nicks and scratches from stones and other stuff. It irks me that SRAM should have painted the carbon wheel just like they apply paint to carbon frames. I mean, I only have 300 miles on them but thinking by the time I get 3000 miles, I will have so many nicks and scratches, eventually they will crack. They should have applied clearcoat or more decals to protect the bare carbon wouoldn't you think?


where are you riding your bike? it's a road bike, stay on the road fer chrissakes.


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## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> where are you riding your bike? it's a road bike, stay on the road fer chrissakes.


only ride on the road. Just thought common sense would have it, if manufacturers apply paint and clearcoat to frame, they should do it to the wheels as well.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

jwk said:


> Hey CXwrench, I have another question for you. My SRAM S80s have been getting very tiny small nicks and scratches from stones and other stuff. It irks me that SRAM should have painted the carbon wheel just like they apply paint to carbon frames. I mean, I only have 300 miles on them but thinking by the time I get 3000 miles, I will have so many nicks and scratches, eventually they will crack. They should have applied clearcoat or more decals to protect the bare carbon wouoldn't you think?


Here we go.

Jwk, you got a defective set. I would get them warrantied at your lbs.

Let us know hot that goes.


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## jwk (Jun 17, 2011)

tihsepa said:


> Here we go.
> 
> Jwk, you got a defective set. I would get them warrantied at your lbs.
> 
> Let us know hot that goes.


I don't think they are defective as the pot marks were not there when I first got them so it seems but comparing them to the zipps, I have seen zips with several miles and not one chip, but then again they are double the price


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## Guod (Jun 9, 2011)

Contact the manufacturer and get as many SRAM S80 decals as you can, then apply them liberally to prevent any further damage.


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## jeffj (Nov 25, 2004)

qatarbhoy said:


> He's busy with his sweet new disc wheel build:


My father brought home a bike that had both wheels laced off center (not quite as off center as the one in this pic). Was a lot of fun to ride. If you rode in a straight line the up and down rhythm would stay the same, but if you zig-zagged or turned a circle or two, it would change. Total hoot to cruise the neighborhood on. It was originally built as a clown bike of some sort.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Hey CXwrench, I have a question for you. Sometimes the playing cards fall off my front fork when they hit the spokes. Do you recommend clothespins or butterfly clips to hold the cards in place?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

tvad said:


> Hey CXwrench, I have a question for you. Sometimes the playing cards fall off my front fork when they hit the spokes. Do you recommend clothespins or butterfly clips to hold the cards in place?


Obviously you should be putting them on your rear fork...I use those clips for chip bags.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

cxwrench said:


> Obviously you should be putting them on your rear fork...I use those clips for chip bags.


OK. Thanks!

Hey CXwrench, I have another question for you. Sometimes the handlebar streamers fall out and get stuck in my kickstand. Is it better to install the streamers under the grip tape, or to just hold them in place with the handlebar end plug?


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## Blackbeerthepirate (Apr 26, 2011)

Dear CXwrench

Why do they put braille dots on the keypad of the drive-up ATM?


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## Blackbeerthepirate (Apr 26, 2011)

Dear CXwrench

If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill themselves, is it considered a hostage situation?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Blackbeerthepirate said:


> Dear CXwrench
> 
> If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill themselves, is it considered a hostage situation?


This is going to require some deep thought, let me open a beers and get back to you.


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## brianb21 (Jul 21, 2010)

We need a CXwrench thread lol. I love reading your posts!


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## Blackbeerthepirate (Apr 26, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> This is going to require some deep thought, let me open a beers and get back to you.


Might want to have a few.



brianb21 said:


> We need a CXwrench thread lol. I love reading your posts!


CXwrench is pretty damn helpful and patient (okay, patient most of the time) in here. We are lucky enough to have a bunch like him around, AndrwSwitch, Kerry Irons, MikeT, looigi, PJ down in beginners and lots more that take their time to try and help out. Maybe instead of abusing them we should thank them from time to time.

.....or

Maybe we should have a "Ask CXwrench forum". That way you could just ask any dumba$$ thing you wanted to;
Dear CXwrench,
What color should I paint my house?
Why do people who know the least, know it the loudest?
Is my wife cheating on me with my girlfriend?
What does "Omaha" mean?


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Blackbeerthepirate said:


> Might want to have a few.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good idea.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

velonista said:


> [Ain't that right Mr. Science


I guess this was directed at me. 

Coupla points:

- the "results" at your link are not the results of the test you discussed, which seem to accessible only by paying Velolab. I didn't, but pretty much figured out the big points form the Velonews discussion.

-the testers admitted this was a limited test, looking at pure friction efficiency in clean newly-lubed chains. They didn't look at longevity, or susceptibility to contamination in the real world, etc.

-I am not surprised that a newly-waxed chain was very efficient. I did my chains that way, for a number of years, and it worked very well for me, when the treatment was fresh.

- I stopped doing that, for those longevity etc. reasons noted. While a newly waxed chain works well (and does not pick up dirt quickly - I liked that) the treatment doesn't last well. A couple hundred miles in perfect conditions, much less in less than perfect (one ride in the rain, basically).

_Compared to applying other lubes, it's a major PITA. As I said, I did it, a bunch. Not worth the trouble ultimately, to me.

So, while I wouldn't state it nearly as categorically as CXWrench did, I come out the same place, more or less: I don't wax my chains. But if somebody has the time to remove the chain every week, melt wax (be careful: if you overheat it you can get a terrible fire) and dip and soak and wipe off a hot chain and let it cool and re-install, go for it.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

velonista said:


> *WRONG!* Wax to the Max! The scientific method trumps anecdote everytime!
> 
> 
> 
> Ain't that right Mr. Science? :wink:


As if your reputation could get any worse...


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

cxwrench said:


> As if your reputation could get any worse...


I dunno which impresses me more; velonista's snappy writing style or his resurrecting a 2 year old thread...


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

velonista said:


> *WRONG
> 
> The scientific method[/URL] trumps anecdote everytime! *


*

Yeah except it was clear that those conducting the test do not understand modern lube formulations. It's quite possible that the reason all the solvent based lubes did poorly is that they only allowed the lube to dry for 30 minutes. The solvent will not have evaporated significantly in that time so those lubes were HEAVILY diluted with solvent. If they run the tests again after allowing the solvent to evaporate over night then their results will be credible.

In the mean time thanks for reviving a 2 year old thread. What do you suppose that red dot means in your reputation?*


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

> I tried to tell you earlier, Mr. Science (euphamistically, but nonetheless...) that the virtues of scientific rigor are lost on this group. There's your proof!


I guess you see something else there that I don't, but it appears to me that Kerry Irons' statement is a quite scientifically rigorous critique of the test you cited, and raises valid questions about its validity. I have been debating and discussing various issues with a number of members of "this group" for 8 or 9 years, and I find plenty of receptiveness to scientific rigor.

I have no opinion on the thread revival issue or the forum's reputation system, one way or the other. 

I do find your style of argument bizarre, defensive and frequently disingenuously ad hominem, but I'll be happy to keep debating points of interest if it can be kept civil.

I don't know yet whether I want to embrace my new nickname, but I can't say I really dislike it. I am not a scientist by training or occupation, but I suppose I am by intellectual inclination.

I have no idea how Jimi Hendrix is relevant to the discussion, but I'm a fan from way back (saw him live once).


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

velonista said:


> [Actually, that is a real question I've been meaning to ask others. What exactly DOES it mean? I sincerely and honestly don't know WHAT significance people ASSUME I give it! How am I SUPPOSED to feel about it? I genuinely don't know!
> 
> I can tell you how I ACTUALLY feel about it: the same way I feel about voodoo; or the local currency of some kooky foreign country that I have zero interest in ever visiting. That is to say, it doesn't have any "_power_" or "_value_" if you don't buy into it! Need I say more?


It means you're making an impression here. But not a favorable one. And this post is an excellent example of the impression you're making and why.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

velonista said:


> Now, please, can you explain: What is a "Circle J**k"? :wink:


http://forums.roadbikereview.com/search.php?searchid=372870


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

velonista said:


> You can't be serious! Making favorable impressions? Really? You're admitting that that's your own personal modus operandi? Hmmmmmm! OK.
> 
> Well, me? I'm a pretty self-contained kinda guy. Meaning: I don't require the approval of strangers. I don't "_long to belong_", as it were.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately for you most internet forums are a 2-way street. If you show up and offend the old timers you won't have much luck. If you show up and can refrain from p*ssing people off you'll have much better luck. 

Guess which guy you are...


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

cxwrench said:


> Unfortunately for you most internet forums are a 2-way street. If you show up and offend the old timers you won't have much luck. If you show up and can refrain from p*ssing people off you'll have much better luck.
> 
> Guess which guy you are...


Wait, be nice to people and they will help you???

OMG, how odd, never heard of such a concept.....


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2014)

velonista said:


> *WRONG!* Wax to the Max! The scientific method trumps anecdote everytime!
> 
> 
> 
> Ain't that right Mr. Science? :wink:





i use finish line ceramic wax from REI for about a year now. I like it but I have no experience with plastic bicycles so read the label before putting it on your CF.


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