# Contador v Astana



## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Great Stage. The Schlecks surprised me with their strength, only Contador could live with them.

This is how I read the last 20 k:
Contador attacks and breaks Kloden on the last climb...........allows the Schlecks to come back to him...............rides to the finish encouraging the Schlecks _all the time_ to keep going faster and faster.............Result: LA and Kloden out of the Top 3.

He was rubbing salt into the wound after all the bulls**t he put up with from LA &Co.


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## paco_finn (Mar 8, 2006)

I don't understand the tactics either. I thought the idea would have been to make Andy and Frank do as much work as possible, Kloden to work up in the standings and Armstrong to jump the gap and break Wiggins. Astana 1,2,3. or at least close today and then after the time trial. I think there will be a poo pot stirring...


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

I was thinking the same thing. The only thing I can figure is he was attacking to set up a counter for Andreas. Unfortunately he dropped Andreas in the process.


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## Sasquatch (Feb 3, 2004)

check twitter. lance and levi are already stirring up the pot.

all i gotta say about this...where did "one leader, the rest ride to make him win" go? USPS-Discovery were VERY vocal about that. Apparently, it only works when Lance is the leader? Will be GREAT to see Contador kick Bruyneel and co's ass next year.


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## Cogito (Nov 7, 2005)

I disagree. Contador misread the situation and stopped as soon as Kloden was dropped. Too late, as the damage was done.
He is going to get scolded tonight. Kloden could be in second tonight if they just stayed with the Schlecks.


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## Mr Wood (Feb 23, 2006)

I've really come to hate Contador for the way he has ridden this tour. He pulled the Schlecks onto the podium ahead of his teammates. Way to reward your teammates for their hard work.


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## turbogrover (Jan 1, 2006)

albert owen said:


> Great Stage. The Schlecks surprised me with their strength, only Contador could live with them.
> 
> This is how I read the last 20 k:
> Contador attacks and breaks Kloden on the last climb...........allows the Schlecks to come back to him...............rides to the finish encouraging the Schlecks _all the time_ to keep going faster and faster.............Result: LA and Kloden out of the Top 3.
> ...


....and we can always count on you to have a bizzare opinion and spin of what would be textbook stage race strategy. ut:


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## Sasquatch (Feb 3, 2004)

Contador may be riding that way for a reason.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Contador really just comes across as a snivelling little brat, expecting this tour to be handed to him just like the 07 tour was.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

Stop the hating. We were treated to a wonderful stage and everyone gave their all.

The only miniscule knock on Contador was he did that mock attack to show the Shreks his strength. Kloden couldn't go. He was blown anyway.

It was a treat and now we actually have a race.

fc


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

paco_finn said:


> I don't understand the tactics either. I thought the idea would have been to make Andy and Frank do as much work as possible,



What I saw was LA covering frank's moves, Kloden covering andy's moves, and AC going with either's moves.

That broke down when frank jumped and left LA to suck the wheel of Wiggins. Which was totally the right thing for LA to do tactically at that moment.

The AC attack, well, he and Kloden clearly talked about things. Kloden was just unable to follow the Schleck wheels.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

turbogrover said:


> ....and we can always count on you to have a bizzare opinion and spin of what would be textbook stage race strategy. ut:


Did you watch the stage with your eyes closed?


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## llama31 (Jan 13, 2006)

It was a dumb move on Contador's part. He's was in complete control and is in control of the yellow jersey. 

But he's leaving the team and he probably is having fun showing LA, Kloden and the rest that he's way stronger than they are.


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## Sasquatch (Feb 3, 2004)

agreed. it is just sad to see so many people knocking for contador's move althought i understand astana getting mad about it because they have their own agenda which is a bit different from Contador's.


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## j3fri (Dec 31, 2006)

yeah,thx to contador,we get to see an exciting stage....

i think even if contador didnt attack,kloden might get dropped later on.... kloden cant even follow lance at the end....

no doubt conti did the damage but kloden was at his limit anyway,sooner or later he would get dropped...


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

it wasn't a dumb move, it was an idiotic one. Served no purpose, not even for himself. Hoping he'll have a bad time trial and lose some time.


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## turbogrover (Jan 1, 2006)

paco_finn said:


> I don't understand the tactics either. I thought the idea would have been to make Andy and Frank do as much work as possible, Kloden to work up in the standings and Armstrong to jump the gap and break Wiggins. Astana 1,2,3. or at least close today and then after the time trial. I think there will be a poo pot stirring...


What's not to understand? Conti rode to defend the jersey. He may have been stronger than the Schlecks, but he rode hard enough to stay with them, and put time into his closest rivals at the same time. He'll distance himself from the Schlecks on the TT stage, and solidify his Tour victory. It's not up to Contador to put LA and Kloden on the podium. It's their job to put Conti on the top of the podium.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

stevesbike said:


> Hoping he'll have a bad time trial and lose some time.


All that time he spent riding behind the two Schlecks was saving his legs for the time trial.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

turbogrover said:


> What's not to understand? Conti rode to defend the jersey. He may have been stronger than the Schlecks, but he rode hard enough to stay with them, and put time into his closest rivals at the same time. He'll distance himself from the Schlecks on the TT stage, and solidify his Tour victory. It's not up to Contador to put LA and Kloden on the podium. It's their job to put Conti on the top of the podium.


Gets it atmo.


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## turbogrover (Jan 1, 2006)

albert owen said:


> Did you watch the stage with your eyes closed?


Yes. Your interpretations are consistently in left field. Don't feel insulted by this. It always gives me a chuckle.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

It was pretty clear that Contador slowed down after he saw Klöden dropped when the attack took place. The plan was definitely to get Klöden to follow him and perhaps drop the brothers and then TT away on the descent.

But, that really, really cracked Klöden so the plan changed. Armstrong was swapping roles with Klöden to cover the attacks and then he got distanced when Frank attacked. So he was tactically smart and required to mark Bradley instead. 

Contador himself said in the interview now that he is upset Klöden didn't manage to follow and was bummed so he didn't make any more of an effort. He asked Andreas if he was able to go and he thought he could but unfortunately, he didn't. 

Contador WANTED Klöden to win the stage actually. That was the plan.

So enough of the conspiracy theories. Nuff said.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*geez louise*

let's see
Frank 64% of the pull on final climb
Andy 36% of the pull 
Contador 0%
WTF was he supposed to do more? grab a seat post or jersey and make them drag him?

Conti clearly was discussing stuff w/Kloden
and when he saw Andreas pop he let up
it was 2K from the top, he probably was hoping to pop one or the other Schleck and Andreas who'd been sitting on all day could come with them, gain some time and maybe get the stage
the only failure was Kloden's legs
hell LA caught him and Andreas couldn't hang on to LA and Nibali

sometimes I wonder if we're watching the same race


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

Sasquatch said:


> check twitter. lance and levi are already stirring up the pot.


I'm glad that AC lets his legs do the talking.


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## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

pretender said:


> He tried to gap the Schlecks, but realized he couldn't, at least without burning a lot of tomorrow's matches. So he let them set pace, and put time into his other rivals.


Therefore, this was a dumb tactical move by AC. He didn't gauge the race well. He didn't gauge his opponents well and it ended up hurting the team and not helping him.


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## TmaxR (Aug 31, 2008)

uzziefly said:


> Contador WANTED Klöden to win the stage actually. That was the plan.


Turned out to be not such a good plan, the way it was executed. If the idea was to have Klöden win the stage, it seems to me he could have continued to sit on the Schlecks, then lead Andreas out for the sprint, if he was still there at the end. As it was, Contador's move blew Klöden up and he couldn't recover.


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

Kloden would've been dropped anyhow so I don't see how this makes any difference. Kloden couldn't even keep up with the last end weak sprint by Nibali and got gapped pretty badly, even after that long decent of recovery.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*lastly*

Contador would be a fool to leave whatever team evolves out of Astana
what we have seen is there are 2 teams with the tactical savvy and rider horsepower to control the TdF. That is Astana and Saxo Bank. Saxo Bank has their GC guy, what is AC gonna do? Hook up with some smaller squad with less support and one that will lose him chunks of time in a TTT?


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

TmaxR said:


> Turned out to be not such a good plan, the way it was executed. If the idea was to have Klöden win the stage, it seems to me he could have continued to sit on the Schlecks, then lead Andreas out for the sprint, if he was still there at the end. As it was, Contador's move blew Klöden up and he couldn't recover.


How in the hell was AC going to get Kloden over the line first? He was cracked! do you expect a push?

The attack was to test the Schlecks. It didn't work, he sat on. Kloden let out the drag chute.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

Spunout said:


> How in the hell was AC going to get Kloden over the line first? He was cracked! do you expect a push?
> 
> The attack was to test the Schlecks. It didn't work, he sat on. Kloden let out the drag chute.


Exactamundo!

Kloden should have coasted down the descent and waited for Lance. That would have made a positive difference.

fc


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## ibfeet (Jul 13, 2006)

All that today was job interview for when AC goes to Saxo next year......


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## AIE (Feb 2, 2004)

Astana drove a split in the peloton and left Contador flapping in the wind on Stage 2. It cost him 30 seconds on a flat stage. Contador owes them nothing.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

llama31 said:


> He had a gap on the Schlecks and was gaining. I don't think they would have caught him, at least not on the uphill. I"m not sure why he sat up but it seemed to be when he realized he'd dropped his teammate.


 I think Contador usually sits up because he's "spent" after his uphill spurts. If you watch some of his past climbs, he does those quick jumps, gets up the road and gets a good gap but then it dwindles away.

His 'attack' did nothing for his team. Not very Professional to blow away your only remaining teammate and diminish his GC standings for no reason (other than because you can and you want to make a 'statement' of some sort.)

I'd like to have seen him flat-out and watch Kloden ride right on past, maybe waving one finger at him.......

If that had been Lance doing a stunt like that, there would be a huge s--t-storm in the press and here on RBR..Of course if Lance or any other Astana mentions this lame move, they will be called "whiners, crybabies, etc" Oh well..

You gotta think the rest of his team now have reason to revile him...Bad behavior, Alberto. The guy can climb, but he's not making any Karma points with the other riders or helping his reputation in the Pro Peloton..


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

moabbiker said:


> Kloden would've been dropped anyhow so I don't see how this makes any difference. Kloden couldn't even keep up with the last end weak sprint by Nibali and got gapped pretty badly, even after that long decent of recovery.


exactly.And he was sitting in last position when he was with Schlecks.

AC tried to make a move, it didn't work, but you can't fault a rider for trying. Kloden couldn't follow the wheel, and Schlecks took advantage of it. It may have backfired, but there was no way of knowing that when AC went (how many of you would have predicted with 100% certainty that AC move wouldn't work and Kloden was going to lose contact with the group?).

In the end AC did zero work with Schlecks and held the time gap on them. If Kloden could make it back, that'd be great, but he obviously blew up and lost a lot of time - but it was only a matter of time. What do you want AC to do - sit up and wait for Kloden on the side of the road while letting Schlecks go?

But Contador put in time in Wiggins and Niebali, and he will deal with Schlecks in ITT tomorrow, as will Kloden and Armstrong. It was a good stage for Astana.


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## TmaxR (Aug 31, 2008)

To those who say Klöden was toast anyway; up until the time of Contador's attack he had been hanging on. If he had gotten over the climb in contact, he could have ridden the back of train down the hill and maybe contested the sprint. As it was, the attack caused him to blow and then the psychology of being dropped set in and he couldn't recover.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

turbogrover said:


> What's not to understand? Conti rode to defend the jersey. He may have been stronger than the Schlecks, but he rode hard enough to stay with them, and put time into his closest rivals at the same time. He'll distance himself from the Schlecks on the TT stage, and solidify his Tour victory. It's not up to Contador to put LA and Kloden on the podium. It's their job to put Conti on the top of the podium.


Well said.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

TmaxR said:


> To those who say Klöden was toast anyway; up until the time of Contador's attack he had been hanging on. If he had gotten over the climb in contact, he could have ridden the back of train down the hill and maybe contested the sprint. As it was, the attack caused him to blow and then the psychology of being dropped set in and he couldn't recover.


man, i gree with you twice in this one thread.

it all must come down to "did conti and kloden really talk about it and did kloden think he had the legs for eth attack?"


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## TmaxR (Aug 31, 2008)

weltyed said:


> man, i gree with you twice in this one thread.


Smart man! Even if you don't know where the shift key is.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

TmaxR said:


> Smart man! Even if you don't know where the shift key is.


You're both wrong.

Kloden cannot outsprint Andy Schleck. Therefore, Contador and Kloden agreed to attach them on the climb, hopefully distance them, and ride in together with AK taking the stage. Contador drove the attack, but AK overestimated his legs and cracked. 

Rather than expand on his gap, Contador immediately turned off the gas and looked for his teammate.

Contador did everything that could be expected of a teammate. You guys either didn't watch the race or weren't paying attention.


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## jpick915 (May 7, 2006)

Alex-in-Evanston said:


> Astana drove a split in the peloton and left Contador flapping in the wind on Stage 2. It cost him 30 seconds on a flat stage. Contador owes them nothing.


I am really hoping that you can find at least one more thread to post this exact same comment in before the day is over.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Conti's tactics were perfect...he knew Klodin was fried....he had a chance to break one of the schecks.

Len


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## TmaxR (Aug 31, 2008)

Len J said:


> Conti's tactics were perfect...he knew Klodin was fried....he had a chance to break one of the schecks.
> 
> Len


Then why did he let up when Klöden couldn't follow?


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## north_of_us (May 10, 2006)

Did anyone else see it before the Conti attack, Andy was leading and it looked like AC and AK where talking and Andy turned around and AK was shaking his head as to say no. I think AK did a great job with AC but didnt have the legs in the end. I also agree the attack was a test, wasnt the pistol attack, AC was probably tired himself. 

Great race to watch, can LA put some time into AC in the time trial??


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

Conty is not a team player! He shoulda pushed AK up the last 5k of the hill and then put a pump through the wheels of the Schlecks on the descent so AK could take the stage.


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## Sasquatch (Feb 3, 2004)

Alex-in-Evanston said:


> Astana drove a split in the peloton and left Contador flapping in the wind on Stage 2. It cost him 30 seconds on a flat stage. Contador owes them nothing.


HELL YEAH! you hit the nail on the head


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

TmaxR said:


> Then why did he let up when Klöden couldn't follow?


because he couldn't drop the schecks.

Why burn the match with no gain?

As it turned out, from then on the schecks did all the work the day before a key ITT............the schecks ended up burning the matches...that's 2 days in a row.

len


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Maximus_XXIV said:


> Conty is not a team player! He shoulda pushed AK up the last 5k of the hill and then put a pump through the wheels of the Schlecks on the descent so AK could take the stage.


Or attacked Frank on the winners podium WWE style and stole his winner's trophy for Kloden. _"Oh My God-- that's Conty's Music!!"_

Ratings would go through the roof. . . 

:arf:


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## Cevan (Jul 19, 2004)

Sniveling little whiners (Lance and Levi).


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

From the pavement of today's final climb. . .


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Mr Wood said:


> I've really come to hate Contador for the way he has ridden this tour. He pulled the Schlecks onto the podium ahead of his teammates. Way to reward your teammates for their hard work.


Hard work? The only hard work LA and AK have had to do this Tour is trying to keep up with Contador.


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

*spelling errror*



jpick915 said:


> I am really hoping that you can find at least one more thread to post this exact same comment in before the day is over.



just in case you missed it - that was Columbia that caused the split, not Astana. Astana didn't even go to the from until the end.


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