# Bahati gets crashed out, enraged, and throws his glasses in the guy's spokes



## Infini (Apr 21, 2003)

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010...tedhealthcare-crashed-me-at-dana-point_111493


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ycem7bHeGic&feature=player_embedded


It does appear obvious that the UHC rider (Jake Keough) meant to put him down, or at least force him out of the pack and contention. From the three guys interviewed, all from different teams, it sounds like maybe he had it coming? Doubt the 20 or so other guys had it coming though. 

Thoughts?


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## Infini (Apr 21, 2003)

Whoops... got beat to the punch - http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=208772


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Hard to tell from the youtube and from the live video I watched yesterday...


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## Tumbleweed (Jun 6, 2005)

Good thing Landis is (sometimes) on the team. De facto scapegoat when the sponsors become hard to reach.


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## CycloCross (Feb 26, 2004)

Good on Keough for holding his ground, I am sure Bahati was wasnt being to kind. Dont think he will mess with him again huh?


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

So he crashed and is now out a pair of glasses? 


Can't tell in the video what happened. Just saw him crash.


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

Regardless of how Bahati went down, to wait 'til the pack comes around again and then throw something at a rider is unacceptable. It's ridiculous. Afterward his attitude seemed to be "fine, suspend me." Maybe the suspension should be long enough to make him think twice next time.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

From the better reports, he was doing these insane moves to try and break into a team's train because he wanted to win badly (his team lost a ride to a training incident with a car). He caused a crash doing so. He then intentionally threw an object into the race from the sidelines and caused _another_ incident.

He is facing a LONG suspension and fine. Maybe he would be better off in the team car (after his suspension is done).


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## Infini (Apr 21, 2003)

waldo425 said:


> So he crashed and is now out a pair of glasses?
> 
> 
> Can't tell in the video what happened. Just saw him crash.


I wish the video wasn't shaky, but it is otherwise good quality. I watched the first few seconds a bunch of times. You can see the UHC-M rider veering sharply to the right until Bahati crashed.


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## MaddSkillz (Mar 13, 2007)

Infini said:


> I wish the video wasn't shaky, but it is otherwise good quality. I watched the first few seconds a bunch of times. You can see the UHC-M rider veering sharply to the right until Bahati crashed.


Yeah, and to top that off, it looks like the same UHC rider is soft-pedaling and then once he realizes the deed is done he gets out of the saddle and sprints back up to the front. It certainly does not look like any accident!


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

Tumbleweed said:


> Good thing Landis is (sometimes) on the team. De facto scapegoat when the sponsors become hard to reach.


Of course, Rahsaan controls the title sponsor . . . .


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

Another video- good view @ 1:20 in.

www.insidecyclingtv.com/videos/129/dana-point-grand-prix


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

ok, knocking down another rider is bad, mmkay?


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

Yeah, no matter how wrong it is to mess with another team's leadout train, bike-tackling is NOT OK


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## nayr497 (Nov 8, 2008)

JohnStonebarger said:


> Regardless of how Bahati went down, to wait 'til the pack comes around again and then throw something at a rider is unacceptable. It's ridiculous. Afterward his attitude seemed to be "fine, suspend me." Maybe the suspension should be long enough to make him think twice next time.


I completely agree with you! Okay, he was emotional due to the death of a teammate and that is understandable. He was also angry about going down and out of the race. 

BUT...you don't throw things from the sidelines. I've taken silly penalties on the field, but I've never thrown something from the box, bench, sidelines. That is out of line. In all sports there are limits and throwing your sunnies from the side is in fact quite ridiculous, as you write John.

And, is the resident Grammar Cop around?

A lot of folks tend to say/write "you'll crash someone," he "gets crashed out," "You'll crash the group by doing that"...is this the proper usage of crash?

I crashed.
He crashed because of heavy rain.

But...can you crash somebody else? Yeah, you can cause them to crash, but can you just plain crash them? Seems grammatically incorrect to me. I know it is likely just cycling lingo, but I am curious.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

I'll be grammar police and say that it's cycling "jargon" and therefore may be used in forms normally not accepted by the rules of grammar.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

So, Bahati is #5, the crashee. Who is the crasher? 

/ edit: the guy diving into Bahati's arm is Keough. If it was my call, he'd be the one getting a dq, fine, maybe suspension.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

nayr497 said:


> But...can you crash somebody else? Yeah, you can cause them to crash, but can you just plain crash them? Seems grammatically incorrect to me. I know it is likely just cycling lingo, but I am curious.


The verb "to crash" is both transitive and intransitive.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Creakyknees said:


> So, Bahati is #5, the crashee. Who is the crasher?
> 
> / edit: the guy diving into Bahati's arm is Keough. If it was my call, he'd be the one getting a dq, fine, maybe suspension.


I assume followed up by a fine and suspension for Bahati for walking on the course and throwing objects into the pack. The both deserve a time out and loss of TV for the night.


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## UGASkiDawg (Jun 23, 2008)

32and3cross said:


> I assume followed up by a fine and suspension for Bahati for walking on the course and throwing objects into the pack. The both deserve a time out and loss of TV for the night.


Actually I think they should give Bahati an award for not walking out on the course with a 2x4 and whacking Keough right off his bike and proceeding to smash his face in and making sure he never rides a bike again.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

And I thought the 'ol Robbie McEwen head butt was something to behold...


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## worst_shot_ever (Jul 27, 2009)

That's ridiculous on both ends, and both need significant suspensions. Either could have caused serious injury or death.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

UGASkiDawg said:


> Actually I think they should give Bahati an award for not walking out on the course with a 2x4 and whacking Keough right off his bike and proceeding to smash his face in and making sure he never rides a bike again.


Good thing your not in charge of anything then cause that's a pretty stupid system you have there.


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## gormleyflyer2002 (Sep 12, 2005)

there has to be other ways to punish or hinder a guy from trying to get a free ride with another teams lead-out train............that could have ended much worse for many, I'm sure the guy that ate the curb is real impressed with their little pissing contest.....idiots, they both should be parked......no matter what excuse they offer.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

I think the whole problem started with Bahati trying to "win one for the Gipper". That negatively influenced his behavior in the race.

Which is not to excuse the blatant and dangerous behavior from both parties.


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

Creakyknees said:


> ok, knocking down another rider is bad, mmkay?


I need to remember to watch this video at home (because I'm blocked at work), but from that still shot I wouldn't assume that Keough caused the crash. 

Judging from Keough's angle, it's clear that either he's pushing back against something that a moment earlier had taken him way off balance or he simply has a death wish. Now... who is trying to break into whose train? 

Again, I'll remember to watch the video one of these days, but that still isn't convincing at all. I'd say just the opposite.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

JohnStonebarger said:


> I need to remember to watch this video at home (because I'm blocked at work), but from that still shot I wouldn't assume that Keough caused the crash.
> 
> Judging from Keough's angle, it's clear that either he's pushing back against something that a moment earlier had taken him way off balance or he simply has a death wish. Now... who is trying to break into whose train?
> 
> Again, I'll remember to watch the video one of these days, but that still isn't convincing at all. I'd say just the opposite.


uhhh, why write the post if you haven't seen the video?


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## gobes (Sep 12, 2006)

JohnStonebarger said:


> I need to remember to watch this video at home (because I'm blocked at work), but from that still shot I wouldn't assume that Keough caused the crash.
> 
> Judging from Keough's angle, it's clear that either he's pushing back against something that a moment earlier had taken him way off balance or he simply has a death wish. Now... who is trying to break into whose train?
> 
> Again, I'll remember to watch the video one of these days, but that still isn't convincing at all. I'd say just the opposite.


You really need to watch the video.


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## madfastride (Jun 4, 2008)

*Testimony*

I think this is a pretty good description of what happened...



> “Bahati was fighting big time,” Van Uden said. “I think he expected everyone to just give him the win for free because of what had happened with his teammate. But everyone’s still there to win the race, and no one was going to back down. Then he egged on a fight with one of the United Health guys, and it ended pretty bad for a lot of guys, including myself; ruined his own race as well.”


Via: Oregon Cycling Action


Seriously though this is like in most sports. Jake just needed to prove he's not one to be pushed around. Bahati will respect his lead out train now.


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

Creakyknees said:


> uhhh, why write the post if you haven't seen the video?


Because people seemed to be commenting on the still shot.

Why post the still shot if you didn't think it was representative?


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

gobes said:


> You really need to watch the video.


I definately will (mental note to self...).

Interesting, though, that all the first hand accounts (including "testimony" below) tell such a different story.


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## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

madfastride said:


> Jake just needed to prove he's not one to be pushed around. Bahati will respect his lead out train now.


Ahhhhhh. By deliberately taking out a rider and making half the field crash. Rule by fear is what you're saying. Mess with the bulls, get the horns so to speak. So, Line Backers should just kick Quarterbacks in the knees to prove they should be taken seriously. Pitchers should just smash the first pitch into the batters face to strike a little respect and fear into their hearts. "Terroristic Sportsmanship", great way to make a point with an opponent. I really think you're on to something there.


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## Eric_H (Feb 5, 2004)

CabDoctor said:


> Ahhhhhh. By deliberately taking out a rider and making half the field crash. Rule by fear is what you're saying. Mess with the bulls, get the horns so to speak. So, Line Backers should just kick Quarterbacks in the knees to prove they should be taken seriously. Pitchers should just smash the first pitch into the batters face to strike a little respect and fear into their hearts. "Terroristic Sportsmanship", great way to make a point with an opponent. I really think you're on to something there.


No, you are taking this the wrong way. Bahati was the aggressor initially, and Keough eventually had to stand his ground. Jake Keough is a young guy, 2nd year pro and I am sure Rashaan thought he could intimidate him off the wheel. There is way more to this story than any of the video clips have managed to show. Quotes from guys like Borrajo, Ken Hanso and Roman Van Uden who all saw the action unfold put Bahati in the wrong here.


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## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

Eric_H said:


> No, you are taking this the wrong way. Bahati was the aggressor initially, and Keough eventually had to stand his ground. Jake Keough is a young guy, 2nd year pro and I am sure Rashaan thought he could intimidate him off the wheel. There is way more to this story than any of the video clips have managed to show. Quotes from guys like Borrajo, Ken Hanso and Roman Van Uden who all saw the action unfold put Bahati in the wrong here.


I agree Bahati was the initial aggressor. But look at it this way, up until Keough swerved, no one crashed. Now, there were several options both riders had before them. They should have pursued it with the officials and had Bahati DQ'd (It wouldn't be the first time) But, now here's where I have a problem, Keough picked a course of action where, in the very best case scenario, would leave one rider on the ground bleeding. Under no circumstances should that course of action ever be taken. It doesn't matter what his reasons were. He went beyond self defense, beyond defense of the team objectives, and even went beyond reasonable offense. He swerved to make a rider crash. And that's what I have a problem with.

PS Nice defense and sound argument Eric, I like that!:thumbsup:


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## Eric_H (Feb 5, 2004)

Yeah, I just watched the clip over and over again and I do agree that despite what went on before the crash, Keough obviously chose an action here that was avoidable. I am sure after being leaned on and hacked by Bahati multiple times he simply overheated and lost his head but the final outcome was not ideal. But the term "terroristic sportsmanship" could be applied to Bahati as well.

In the end, this whole incident is so non-pro we should probably move the thread out of "Pro Cycling"


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## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

Eric_H said:


> But the term "terroristic sportsmanship" could be applied to Bahati as well.


That's a copyrighted term, my lawyers will be in contact with. Hopefully we can settle this out of court.

No, I agree thats what "actually" happened. My response with "Terroristic Sportsmanship" was in response to 



madfastride said:


> Jake just needed to prove he's not one to be pushed around. Bahati will respect his lead out train now.


Because that attitude is simply stupid and senseless in any sport. Trying to prove something is different than overacting. I honestly think Keough was overreacting. Using a term like "just needed to prove" implies that the rider evaluated the options and choose an extreme in order to make a point. Realistically I don't think either of them considered other options. BUT, if Keough had the type of attitude madfastride hinted at, a "Yeah I made you crash, learn your lesson, respect my train or I'll make you crash again," then I think he deserves a serious ban. 

I think the one that really need to apologize is Fraser, when I first met him I thought he was a d-bag, then I he started earning my respect, now he's back to being a d-bag. Not like he really cares what I think though.....


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