# Continental 4000s vs 4000 chili



## 95624 (Oct 23, 2007)

Has anyone had experience with the Conti 4000 tires that use the chili compound to compare to the 4000s which is also chili? PBK has the 4000 with chili for $33 and the 4000s for $36. It seems like they are the same tire except for the printing on them. If so, I might as well save the $3.


----------



## PigmyRacer (Oct 3, 2007)

The difference pretty much amounts to $3


----------



## studiddy (Sep 27, 2005)

The s ones are better. Adding letters to names always makes them better. I ordered some of the s version from pbk a few days ago, and honestly have no way to justify spending the extra $6, except to say I was hoping newer = better. Lame.


----------



## Rubber Lizard (May 10, 2007)

The black chili rubber compound is some newer better faster whatever rubber that probably won't make any noticeable difference to anyone but their testing machines. Is black chili faster and grippier and more durable? Yes, it probably is. Could any human tell the difference between the compounds in a blind test? Nope.


----------



## ciclisto (Nov 8, 2005)

s= chili=nano=better -don't you know?


----------



## BluRooster (Sep 11, 2006)

I had the 4000s and I like the Michelin Pro 3 better. Seems like a smoother ride. 4000s blew a sidewall after 100 miles or so...


----------



## NCRoadBeginner (Oct 8, 2005)

Recently blew a sidewall also at roughly 100 miles on a 4000s... sounds like maybe they might have a quality problem...


----------



## 11.4 (Mar 2, 2008)

Lots of riders on the new 4000S tires and no more reports of problems than there were before. The rubber does have greater adherence and maintains traction farther into an angle which helps both on wet roads and on turns. This and the lower rolling resistance are probably the most noticeable characteristic of the new tires. If you ride in a straight line the traction won't show up but if you ride faster, take turns faster, and ride on slick roads and don't want to be completely paranoid about turns or slick spots, these are good tires for that. My own experience has been that they are very cut resistant and have so far been absolutely flat-free. We have half a dozen team riders on them as training wheels without a single flat or ruined tire so far -- a total of perhaps 13,000 miles.


----------



## ciclisto (Nov 8, 2005)

funny I quit riding 4000's because the sidewalls would deteriorate before the thread I just though I had a bad pair.......so much for them. I use Vittoria cx evo, very nice and cheap from Probike,$36.00


----------



## nor_cal_rider (Dec 18, 2006)

I put a set of the 4000s on my Madone about 1000 miles ago. So far no problems. Had Bonte RXL's before and like the Conti's better - so far. Time will tell, as I got around 2000 miles on the RXL's - hopefully these will also hold up, because I *THINK* they ride a little softer. If I have problems - I'll get some Pro3's next.


----------



## JM714 (Jan 22, 2004)

I have been running the GP 4000 and 4000s' . I am 6'5" 215 lbs. and I only have one flat in over 3k miles. I run them at 120 psi and the flat was from a piece of glass that made it through the vectran breaker. I can't tell a difference in performance between the two. I have had no sidewall issues. In between sets of the Conti's I ran a set of Schwalbe Ultremos. They have the vectran breaker also. Much more comfortable tire, but seemed to wear quicker and it got sliced up more.


----------



## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Conti 4000 durability*



NCRoadBeginner said:


> Recently blew a sidewall also at roughly 100 miles on a 4000s... sounds like maybe they might have a quality problem...


Uh, no. A bunch of people I ride with use them with no problems. I typically get 3,000-3,500 miles on a rear (I weigh 175 lb) and have had no problems either.


----------



## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

I have 3000 miles on my 4000S and they are still going strong.
I had no flats either. The rear one will need to be replaced within next 1000 miles or so but the front one looks great. 
I also have the Pro 3 Race and I can't really tell much difference between the two....


----------



## bobsmargs (Aug 13, 2004)

I've run through quite a few of these this season:

2 4000S's destroyed by sidewall cuts from hitting small rocks on separate occasions. These were "race only" tires that had less than 100 miles and still looked brand new.
The last of these died today 15 miles into a 60 mile road race.

1 4000 'black chili' destroyed by sidewall cut from hitting a small rock, still looks brand new.

1 4000 'black chili' destroyed by hitting a nail, which would have destroyed any tire.

Out of curiosity, I went through my "I really should recycle these tires" pile from the past 2 years and found:

4 'regular' 4000's that were worn past the wear marks with no signs of sidewall damage.

6 4-season's that were worn flat. some of these have non-fatal sidewall damage where the duraskin strings ripped, but I did not flat.

Now I'm not sure if it is my riding, the crap on the roads or the tires that have changed, but I have 1 GP4000S left. I am not going to be riding on it any more.


----------



## 95624 (Oct 23, 2007)

*Thanks for the replies*

Especially the detailed reply from bobsmargs. My brother in law was making fun of me last week about sweating the $3 and I explained that if the tire gets a bad cut, the lower price lessens the blow. I reminded him about that when he was struggling to make a boot for his new Hutchinson tire, that had a bad cut on it, with only 50 miles on it. I mostly ride on a bike path, so I hope to be less of a victim to cuts. What really concerns me about the better chili compound is the nanoparticles, but I will start a new thread for that.


----------



## DBtheCyclist (Oct 4, 2004)

*4000 and 4000s, no probs for me*

I have been riding on GP 3000, then 4000, then 4000 w/black chili, and now 4000s (also w/chili, yes, a few bucks more but I like the appearance of the tire's lettering better on my bike), for many many years. Other than an occassional flat (only one on my last 3 (I think 3, maybe only 2 sets, can't remember) sets of 4000s, a small wire got through the belt), I haven't had any problems. Did use a Michelin tire, can't remember which, for a few years, many years ago, but Conti's for many years now. In fact, in 40,000+ miles of riding (all but one year (Rhode Island) in the Kansas City metro, almost all riding on the Kansas side), I have never had a sidewall blow out, or cut, on any tire. I am fortunate to be able to ride on pretty good, pretty clean, roads. I am 6'3" and have weighed between 190 and 215 over that time (almost 20 years). 

I find it curious to read about some posters that have suffered cuts on Conti tires, and some of which comment they will go to Michilen Pro3 Race tires -- I seem to have read on a post in this forum, recently, that many users of those tires have been suffering cuts on sidewalls. Probably just a consequence of the roads and road debris various riders have to endure.

Back to the Conti's, can I tell a diff between the 4000, 4000 w/chili, and 4000s w/chili, probably not, I just usually ride the latest / greatest Conti (also rode Attack/Force for a while too) that is offered, and they have all been great tires for me. I usually get only 2000+/- miles out of a set, I just figure that is the way it goes, being a bigger rider. Compared to gas costs for my car, not much to pay, really, in perspective to life and cars and my bikes.

Doug


----------



## otoman (Mar 8, 2004)

There is not much difference b/c all Contis suck. The old ones had stronger (but less compliant) sidewalls. Of course the rolling resitance was horrible b/c of that and the low TPI fabric used in the casing. Of course Conti claimed fanstastically high TPI's (~450!) by multiplying the low TPI of the casing x the number of plies. Also, you didn't want to use them in the rain and actually have to take a turn.
The newer ones, as is posted above, have weak sidewalls (similar to the original Michelin Pro Races, IMHO). Grip is probably improved with the new compound.
Do yourself a favor and get Pro3 Races, Vittoria Evo's or Veloflex Pave.


----------



## DBtheCyclist (Oct 4, 2004)

*I was condsidering Pro 3 Race tires, however.........*



otoman said:


> There is not much difference b/c all Contis suck. The old ones had stronger (but less compliant) sidewalls. Of course the rolling resitance was horrible b/c of that and the low TPI fabric used in the casing. Of course Conti claimed fanstastically high TPI's (~450!) by multiplying the low TPI of the casing x the number of plies. Also, you didn't want to use them in the rain and actually have to take a turn.
> The newer ones, as is posted above, have weak sidewalls (similar to the original Michelin Pro Races, IMHO). Grip is probably improved with the new compound.
> Do yourself a favor and get Pro3 Races, Vittoria Evo's or Veloflex Pave.


I read a post here (can probably find the thread if you search for Pro3), that cited many riders with problems with their Pro3 Race tires -- many of the posters were suffering cuts. The opinion ouf of that thread was that the Pro3 Race tires are just that, "race" tires, and don't expect them to hold up in general road use. They are sticky, corner great, but won't last (at least that was my interpretation of the many posts that comprised that thread).

So, it would seem, that the best tire to use depends greatly on what you want to use it for, the roads on which you ride, and the size rider you are. Personally, I am a 200+ pound recreational rider, like to ride hard, but also like to ride a good tire that doesn't flat often and holds up well. Conti's have always been that for me, I would hardly say they "suck", nor do many of my riding pals who ride on them as well. They have been great tires for anyone that I personally know to have tried them.

Doug


----------



## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

One more datapoint ... I had a sidewall cut and blow-out on a front-wheel using GP4000/chilli with at most 200 miles on them. Unfortunately this was at 30mph on a descent into a corner and the outcome was fairly predictable. The road was pretty clean and I wasn't able to identify any debris that caused this, but the cut was definitely the cause of my crash.

I realize that tires/tubes are prone to occasional failure and that one cut is statistically insignificant. However, I'm not riding these tires again. I was able to take them back to the store, and get a full refund on both of them (great service!). That doesn't make up for the road rash, evening in the trauma centre and the rest of the damage to the bikes. The best thing to come out of it was the help that I got from passing cyclists to get me patched up and rolling again.


----------



## 95624 (Oct 23, 2007)

DBtheCyclist,

I enjoyed your posts because I am the same size. The Attack/Force tires that came with my bike have given me great service. The tires have a nice ride because of the "soft" sidewall. I rode a soft back tire for a few miles recently to get to a better place to change the tube. Coming around a few slight curves in the road, I thought I was going to hit the rim. I have decided that these better performing tires are scary when they go flat and I need to be careful.


----------



## DBtheCyclist (Oct 4, 2004)

*If that happened to me, probably quit riding that tire as well.*



ukbloke said:


> One more datapoint ... I had a sidewall cut and blow-out on a front-wheel using GP4000/chilli with at most 200 miles on them. Unfortunately this was at 30mph on a descent into a corner and the outcome was fairly predictable. The road was pretty clean and I wasn't able to identify any debris that caused this, but the cut was definitely the cause of my crash.
> 
> I realize that tires/tubes are prone to occasional failure and that one cut is statistically insignificant. However, I'm not riding these tires again. I was able to take them back to the store, and get a full refund on both of them (great service!). That doesn't make up for the road rash, evening in the trauma centre and the rest of the damage to the bikes. The best thing to come out of it was the help that I got from passing cyclists to get me patched up and rolling again.


However, fortunately, it hasn't. Seems like you were basically OK, that is good. Perhaps whatever damaged your tire happened at some time before you actually crashed, no one will probably ever know that for sure. Perhaps whatever damaged your Conti tire would have damaged any tire, who knows ? Conti's have been good tires for me, never had sidewall failures (I am thinking probably with 10 pairs, at least, of various Grand Prix models and Attack/Force tires over the years), or any issues with cuts (thank you, Kansas, for good roads -- with little road debris as well -- I live in the Kansas City burbs, and don't ride in the inner city or anythng like that, basically 2-3 miles and I can be out of town). Might well have a lot to do with what various crap some posters just happened to ride over, the problems some have with Conti's, and that some have with Pro3 Race (check this thread http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=119838&highlight=pro3+race) tires. Here is another thread on Pro3 Race tires http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=1576923&page=2&highlight=pro3+race most of the posters here like them, but one did state he ran over someting, and rear was shot after 500 miles. My interpretation on all this, is that there is debris out there on the road that will destroy any tire, new or with many miles. Some riders are unfortunate enough to ride over it, some aren't 

Doug


----------



## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

> Seems like you were basically OK, that is good.


I'm fine, thanks, and looking forward to a very hilly century this weekend! I'm just riding a bit more conservatively on the downhills now, and sometimes it is hard to get the crash replay out of my head. The thought of a front tube/tire failure at speed scares the hell out of me now. I'm even wondering whether to fill my tubes with Stan's or similar to add a little bit of insurance.



> Perhaps whatever damaged your tire happened at some time before you actually crashed, no one will probably ever know that for sure. Perhaps whatever damaged your Conti tire would have damaged any tire, who knows ?


Yeah, who knows. It was a small cut, maybe 5mm long, perpendicular to the rim. It didn't look like there was any other impact trauma around the cut. Inflating a replacement tube inside the tire revealed the problem as the tube just started escaping through the cut. Because of that I don't think the cut was there before, though possibly some prior impact had weakened the area. My theory, and I have no absolute proof, is that the tire spontaneously cut on the descent possibly while rolling over some road feature (like a minor pot-hole) and then the tube exploded shortly thereafter like a gun-shot. As I said, just one data point, but enough to turn me away from all "high-performance race-oriented" tires completely, and not specifically just the Conti GP4000s.

So I've gone back to Conti Ultra Gatorskins with a kevlar bead which have never failed me in this way. There's a (slight) weight penalty over the GP4000s and they don't roll as nicely, though I don't push the limits in cornering anyway to benefit from a better handling tire. It seems to me that the side walls are a bit more robust so hopefully that will prevent a recurrence. By the way, I'm not a particularly heavy rider at 160 pounds.

Thanks for the reply.


----------



## bsaunder (Oct 27, 2004)

It may be placebo effect or not - I much prefer the ride of the 4000S over the 4000 bc tires - also seems to corner a good bit better.
so far the 4000S is my favorite tire. since I like the way it rides, I ride my bike more - and isn't that the true test anyways - what ever gets you to ride your bike....


----------



## DBtheCyclist (Oct 4, 2004)

*4000s better than 4000 ?*



bsaunder said:


> It may be placebo effect or not - I much prefer the ride of the 4000S over the 4000 bc tires - also seems to corner a good bit better.
> so far the 4000S is my favorite tire. since I like the way it rides, I ride my bike more - and isn't that the true test anyways - what ever gets you to ride your bike....


I honestly don't know if the latest Conti GP tire, either a new series, or the new black chili compound is perceptively better or not, that is hard for me to say. Based on their published facts, I figure it certainly shouldn't be worse, so I usually ride the latest/greatest they have to offer. I won't really consider switching to another manufacturer, unless I personally have probs, or if my riding pals do. They have been good, no let's say great, tires for me over the years. Not just one pair, probably 10 pairs or more. They just don't give me any problems at all (remember, I have been 200+/- pounds, all that time, usually inflate to 120 or a little more psi). Perhaps I just don't corner aggressively, enough to notice a difference there or perhaps to bring more grief on the sidewalls (I don't race, just a 49 year old recreational rider who likes to ride hard). Rolling reisitance, hard to really tell on that one. I have never had many flats (probably more due to the roads / debris than tires, for all riders, I believe), so hard to make a call there either. 

I will say that a front blowout at speed is not something I want to think about -- I just rode the Copper Triangle ride in the Colorado Rockies, exceeded 46 mph (my riding pal, also 200+ pounds, on 4000s tires, exceeded 50 mph) on a few occassions, though not that fast in corners, I would bet I hit some at 30 or 35+. Scary thought to think of a blowout at that speed, on some fairly harrowing roads as well, cut into the sides of mountains. Had 2 descents 10 or so miles each, and another of 4 miles (twisty, prob 20-25 max mph), and another of maybe 5 or so miles, 46+ as well (seemed to be my terminal speed, in drops (didn't go crazy to get as aero as possible, 46+ was fast enough, I don't like heights, and depending on where you were on the route, you were really high above valleys and such)). Glad nothing went wrong on that ride 

Doug


----------



## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

> 'm even wondering whether to fill my tubes with Stan's or similar to add a little bit of insurance.


Sorry to hear about your crash and glad to hear you're OK. If I understand your description correctly, having sealant in that tire wouldn't have helped you at all. I've had great luck and wear with my Conti 4000's. I also very briefly inspect my tires after every ride, especially the sidewalls. For me, any questionable damage and the tire's done (I just retired a Hutchinson Fusion 2 tubelss for this reason with only 400 miles on it. It's _probably_ OK - hey Francois, you want it?  ). I'm too old to chance it.


----------



## mcneilan (Mar 25, 2006)

*Continental GP 4000S - Bead Failure, Defective Tire*

OK - It happened to me. 45 mph on a straight downhill descent and the bead separated from the tire. The bead is lying neatly in the bottom of the rim and the tire is shreaded and separated completely for about 3 inches. As stated previously in this thread...the outcome was fairly predictable. Two weeks off the bike and I am nursing lots of road rash. The tire showed abrasion at the bead all around the circumference but only on one side. This was not brake rubbing as it was below the rim wall but there is definitely something going on at the rim/tire interface. These were the hardest tire to get on the rim that I have ever had. 110PSI on a Zipp CSC rim and I weigh 190 lbs and the tires have about 175 miles on them. The rim is clean and I have run other tires with no issues. It is important to note that this same tire blew off the rim on a previous occasion on a descent but I was able to hold it and did not go down. The tire was undamaged and I attributed it to a bad install and the fact that I hade been on the brakes a lot and heated the rim (organized ride so turning it loose on the descent was not smart). I sent details and pictures and received no reply from Continental. Be warned - There is something definitely wrong with this tire.


----------



## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

mcneilan said:


> OK - It happened to me. 45 mph on a straight downhill descent and the bead separated from the tire. The bead is lying neatly in the bottom of the rim and the tire is shreaded and separated completely for about 3 inches. As stated previously in this thread...the outcome was fairly predictable. Two weeks off the bike and I am nursing lots of road rash. The tire showed abrasion at the bead all around the circumference but only on one side. This was not brake rubbing as it was below the rim wall but there is definitely something going on at the rim/tire interface. These were the hardest tire to get on the rim that I have ever had. 110PSI on a Zipp CSC rim and I weigh 190 lbs. The rim is clean and I have run other tires with no issues. It is important to note that this same tire blew off the rim on a descent but I was able to hold it and did not go down. The tire was undamaged and I attributed it to a bad install and the fact that I hade been on the brakes a lot and heated the rim (organized ride so turning it loose on the descent was not smart). I sent details and pictures and received no reply from Continental. Be warned - There is something definitely wrong with this tire.


Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Hope you recover quickly.
I have had exactly opposite expeirence as yours.
Close to 4000 miles on my latest set and no flat and not even a cut.
I weight 180lbs (+/- 5lbs) and I have abused these tires by coming down Skyline Drive and 211 off the Skyline Drive at 50 mph. I mean I beat the crap out these tires.....
I have even ridden them through little bit of fire roads and dirt roads (washed off by heavy rain).

Whatever the tire you choose, hope you have a better experience.


----------



## ciclisto (Nov 8, 2005)

my 2c these are the worst the side walls are thin I think to get the weight down , but they blow out, for the money there are way better tires for example pro race 3 had them for one year 3000 miles no problems look new.


----------



## mcneilan (Mar 25, 2006)

Cpark - I agree and the concensus is that these tires have great cut resistance and good treadlife. That is the reason I bought them. I run Conti Tubulars and love them but I honestly believe there is a quality problem with these tires that has not been addressed. There are enough cases on this forum and others to know there are some serious issues with the sidewall and particularly beads. It is clear that my problem is not isolated. At the minimum it would have been great to get some feedback and analysis from Continental.


----------



## DS1239622 (Mar 21, 2007)

Haven't tried the GP 4000 but I love my GP 4000S's. Ive got about 2000mi on the rear and there is still some tread life left. Flat resistance, and durability have been great and they are lighter and better 'feeling' (at least to me) on the road than the Michelin Krylion Carbons I was using.

Also out of the three tires I have used in my relatively short road cycling career they were by far the easiest to install on the rim and I can do it just fine without levers.

With every single tire on the market you will read reviews by someone saying they are crap, blowout, too hard to get on, spontaneously combust, etc. From my own personal experience and from the majority of reviews on here I would say they Conti GP 4000S's are good tires. How do they compare to the GP 4000? I don't personally know but for the extremely small price difference why not just get the 4000S? If there is a performance gain, great. If not, you blew like $2. Now matching the color of your bike to the tire is one reason to get a GP 4000. Ive been eyeing the blue ones lately.


----------



## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

had a sidewall cut on a new 4000s rear, hoping the patch on the inside will hold till i can get more mileage out of them.


----------



## DeLuz (Aug 1, 2008)

I have been using a 4000s on the rear and it has been very durable and tough. No cuts and long tread wear. No sidewall issues.Rolling resistance feels low. I do find the ride to be bumpier than the Pro2 I had previously. I just borrowed a half worn out Vittoria EVO CX from a friend to try and I do like the ride much better. Since I am light and ride carefully through stuff on the road I am going see how long I can get it to last and maybe buy a new one. I guess I am not willing to sacrifice ride over durability to a point. If Conti could refine this tire further to improve the ride they would have a winner.


----------



## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

Kerry Irons said:


> Uh, no. A bunch of people I ride with use them with no problems. I typically get 3,000-3,500 miles on a rear (I weigh 175 lb) and have had no problems either.


Agreed. I know lots of people that ride them that swear by them and never have problems. However, I blew out a sidewall on my rear Conti 4000 at around 600 miles. Maybe it's a bad batch?


----------



## djg21 (Oct 25, 2003)

bsaunder said:


> It may be placebo effect or not - I much prefer the ride of the 4000S over the 4000 bc tires - also seems to corner a good bit better.
> so far the 4000S is my favorite tire. since I like the way it rides, I ride my bike more - and isn't that the true test anyways - what ever gets you to ride your bike....


Both this seasons GP 4000 (only the black ones) and GP 4000s are made with the chili compound. The only difference is the size of the logo -- the 4000s having a bigger logo on the sidewall.

IMO, the chile compound does corner better. With 120lbs and latex tubes, they ride really nicely. I ride them as everyday tires and on my race wheels, and put in 200-250 miles weekly. They are no more prone to flatting thab any other tire. In fact, I think they are less prone to flatting.


----------



## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

recently switched from Gatorskins to 4000 S...

I'm one of those that has always said there's not much difference between most tires except some wear a little better or look a little better on a given bike.

the 4000 S feel like I'm riding on glass, super smooth and fast.

is it in my mind? beats me...but I like how they ride. just ordered 3 more sets from PBK.


----------



## EverydayRide (Sep 12, 2008)

I have had issues with [2] sets of Continental GP 4000's this year. One is the Chili compound and the other is a coloured casing. 

An all black casing is a Chili Compound in the 4000 series and identical to the 40000S. The 4000S is the same compound as the 4000 [all black]. Difference are, when the 4000 comes in coloured sidewalls it no longer has the updated chili formula. As well the 4000S does not come in 700 x 25 where as the 4000 does. [If you buy the coloured side walled 4000 - they lack these new compounds.]

My issues, after 2,000 miles on the GP4000 [yellow casings] the rear tire tread separated underneath the casing itself resulting in a hop. Had to toss the tire and no replacement yellow 4000 was available on line. Therefore went out and bought a second set, GP 4000 in black sidewall with updated chili compound. Nice tire. Have had them on since 28th of July, having 600 miles on them. Noticed yesterday after the ride that the rear tire has a hop in it. Looks as if the bead is not tight on the rim, but under careful examination the bead is secured correctly, tube is not pinched and the "mounting" seems compliant. The hop is as if the sidewall is separating internally from the bead or "stretching itself" away from the bead of the construction. It's ever so slight but I'm keeping my eye on it. The tire pressure is always at 100-110 psi. These are 700 x 25's. I rotated the tire to the front, remounted and it still has that slight hop at that one section.

I'm not liking what I see, especially at $60 a piece.


----------



## EverydayRide (Sep 12, 2008)

Here are some of my pics of a failed Continental 4000 700 x 25 w/ approx 2,000 miles on it. 


Click Image To Enlarge

You'll notice the darker streak on the top portion of the tread. This is just a tar stain, it was all over the top section width of the tread. We're redoing roads here locally. I tried to clean it off but some of the tar still remained. If you look to the very side where arrows are pointing you see the separation.


Click Image To Enlarge

Inside the carcass, take note how the threads have separated. Remember too, this rear tire was a rotation from the front, had more tread then the tire rotated forward and the more "worn tire" that is on the front is perfect.


----------



## EverydayRide (Sep 12, 2008)

Click image to enlarge


Click image to enlarge


----------



## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

EverydayRide said:


> I have had issues with [2] sets of Continental GP 4000's this year. One is the Chili compound and the other is a coloured casing.
> 
> An all black casing is a Chili Compound in the 4000 series and identical to the 40000S. The 4000S is the same compound as the 4000 [all black]. Difference are, when the 4000 comes in coloured sidewalls it no longer has the updated chili formula. As well the 4000S does not come in 700 x 25 where as the 4000 does. [If you buy the coloured side walled 4000 - they lack these new compounds.]
> 
> ...


You pay how much??? Need to shop around...I have never paid ore than $35 for these tires...


----------



## EverydayRide (Sep 12, 2008)

cpark said:


> You pay how much??? Need to shop around...I have never paid ore than $35 for these tires...


If you order them from the UK and get charged importation tax. Give me a place that ships 4000 Continentals for $35 ea peak season and I'll order 10 tires now.


----------



## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

EverydayRide said:


> If you order them from the UK and get charged importation tax. Give me a place that ships 4000 Continentals for $35 ea peak season and I'll order 10 tires now.


Can't tell you without knowing what country you live in.


----------



## s2ktaxi (Jul 11, 2006)

i had a 4000S on a rear that lasted about 5000 mi. Then 600 mi into a recently new tire, I get a cut on the sidewall - oh well...

Have gone through 2 pairs of 4000 (non-Chili) covering about 18k miles on my other bike with no problems.

The Gp4000S does seem a bit more compliant.


----------



## EverydayRide (Sep 12, 2008)

cpark said:


> Can't tell you without knowing what country you live in.


North Eastern Seaboard, USA.


----------



## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

EverydayRide said:


> North Eastern Seaboard, USA.


Probikekit.com (they have deeper sale with no shipping time to time)
Bike24.com (price is bit higher than $35 now).
The key thing is not to wait until you need the tire, rather keep you eyes/ears open for special promotion.
Btw, that's interesting about how you had to pay the import tax.
I have ordered from total cycling, wiggles, ribble and bike24.com many times and have never paid import tax....


----------



## EverydayRide (Sep 12, 2008)

cpark said:


> Probikekit.com (they have deeper sale with no shipping time to time)
> Bike24.com (price is bit higher than $35 now).
> The key thing is not to wait until you need the tire, rather keep you eyes/ears open for special promotion.
> Btw, that's interesting about how you had to pay the import tax.
> I have ordered from total cycling, wiggles, ribble and bike24.com many times and have never paid import tax....


Here's my post from last winter purchasing the first set of Continental GP 4000's

March 03 2009. These are the yellows you see photos of above. I ordered them but was still riding through the Bontrager Selects on my Dura Ace Mavic rims. I installed the Yellow GP4000's in end April. Road them couple thousand miles and had the issue end of July. July was peak month for tire buying.

So, that's the reasoning behind peak season purchasing. Off peak GP 4000's sh*t the bed from CBO at under $29.00 ea.

If that answers your question.

My Bontragers post previous to the Continental GP 4000's.


----------



## John Martin (Aug 15, 2009)

I tried out the GP 4000s and its definitely better than the Kenda Kalientes in terms of less rolling resistance. Grip is better. However i reco conti tubes to be used with conti tires


----------



## thegock (May 16, 2006)

*Long time user*

My last Conti 4000 I replaced a week ago had 3,500 miles on it. Four months ago, I had to replace one with about 1,200 miles that caught a rock in the leftover winter gravel in NJ hills.


----------



## JSummers (Nov 21, 2008)

My son and 4000s tires he can kill them in no time side wall blow outs, Pro Race3s he has no problem with them, seem to hold up good, knock on wood. BCH Sorry english major was not my best but figured you being from WI could get my drift


----------



## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

JSummers said:


> My son and 4000s tires he can kill them in no time side wall blow outs, Pro Race3s he has a problem with them, seem to hold up good knock on wood


Is there an English translation available for this? ^^^^


----------



## JSummers (Nov 21, 2008)

*Bch*

4000s tires JUNK, Pro race3s Good IMO :thumbsup:


----------



## DBtheCyclist (Oct 4, 2004)

*Good tire, bad tire, depends greatly on what one rides over, I think*



JSummers said:


> 4000s tires JUNK, Pro race3s Good IMO :thumbsup:


I have been riding Continentals for more of my 50,000 or so lifetime miles, more than all other tires combined I am pretty sure. How many pairs, unknown, quite a few (I am 210 pounds, and get 1500-2000 out of a rear tire). Had Grand Prix, Grand Prix 3000, Attack / Force, Grand Prix 4000, Grand Prix 4000s. Would have to guess 15-20 pairs, at least. How many have I cut, or had any problem with, other than just wearing them out ? ONE tire. Went on a city ride, more crap on road than where I usually ride (out of the city), and I got a quarter inch or so cut, on a nearly new tire (GP4000S). Patched it on the inside of the tire, my LBS says it should be fine, but I haven't remounted it as yet, I will observe how it looks when I mount and inflate it (tube came out throught the cut initially). Based on what I have read on many posts here about various tires, my conclusion -- they all cut, just a matter of what one happens to have the bad fortune to ride over. Some people think one tire rides better than some other given tire -- and it will always be that way, many riders' preferences are different than other riders. But for me, GP4000S, and GP4000 (I am riding them both (wanted red on one of my bikes) have both been great tires. Can I see much difference, well, no, I don't feel much difference, but they are on different wheels too, which make a difference as well. I do wish I could get more miles out of a rear, but any / all tires have always been that way for me, being 210 pounds probably has a lot to do with it (I run them 120 pounds give or take). I will add that I will wear out 2 rears (1500-2000 miles each) before I need a front, or maybe I replace the front for every 2 rears -- usually buy 3 at a time).

Doug


----------



## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

JSummers said:


> 4000s tires JUNK, Pro race3s Good IMO :thumbsup:


I'm sure lots of Conti users will immediately switch brands based on this critical analysis.

sounds like a review from Mongo Bike Monthly...


----------



## JSummers (Nov 21, 2008)

3 tires in around 30 mile rides cuting side walls is much on my pocket book. I still have four 4000s on rims but now I am replacing them with Pro Race3s as they blow. my son is 160 lbs and hell on wheels, I had to have Austin from Zen build a wheel for his powertap, now the wheel stays true. He has about 500 miles on the Pro Race3s no flats no side wall blow outs so I am sticking with the Pro Races, maybe bad string of luck? but my son has not changed the way he rides. He is hard on gear. two things I am going to stick with, one Austin taking care of my wheel building and, two no more 4000s tires


----------



## JSummers (Nov 21, 2008)

Oxtox said:


> I'm sure lots of Conti users will immediately switch brands based on this critical analysis.
> 
> sounds like a review from Mongo Bike Monthly...


I could care a less if they switch brands or not. I am done spending my money on Conti


----------



## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

I have had no issues with my 4000s Contis. I have found them to wear very well. Previous to the Pro3Race, I used to ride Pro2Race. They were nice tires, but did seem to get cut up a fair amount. Pro3Race seems to start off with a bad rep so I switched from P2R to Conti and have no reason to go back. I have riden the folding Gatorskins and the 4000s and I have found both to be more durabe than the Michelins. Your mileage may vary.


----------



## DBtheCyclist (Oct 4, 2004)

*Cutting tires*



JSummers said:


> 3 tires in around 30 mile rides cuting side walls is much on my pocket book. I still have four 4000s on rims but now I am replacing them with Pro Race3s as they blow. my son is 160 lbs and hell on wheels, I had to have Austin from Zen build a wheel for his powertap, now the wheel stays true. He has about 500 miles on the Pro Race3s no flats no side wall blow outs so I am sticking with the Pro Races, maybe bad string of luck? but my son has not changed the way he rides. He is hard on gear. two things I am going to stick with, one Austin taking care of my wheel building and, two no more 4000s tires


If I had that many cut up that quick, I might be inclined to swtich also. A while back, I thought of trying a pair of Pro3 Race tires, did searching here on this forum, and found that many posters said they (Pro3 Race) cut up easily, very easily, so I never tired a pair. Maybe you will have better luck. I still say that cutting tires has a lot to do with the misfortune (bad luck) of riding over something bad. I just rode the Copper Triangle in the Colorado Rockies, picked up a quarter to half inch long piece of loose wire (bad luck -- what are the odds I even manage to run over it, let alone it somehow sticks into my tire), in my front tire, resulted in a slow leak, at 45+ mph descending from Freemont Pass. Am I blaming it on the tire - no - just bad luck.

Mostly, I ride on pretty good, clear roads, mostly outside the Kansas City (Kansas side -- Kansas has better roads than Missouri) metro area. Closing in on 50,000 miles ridden (over 20 years, 13,000+ in last 2.5 or so years), dozens of tires (early on I used Michelin, can't even remember the model - after a rash of flats, switch to Conti maybe 15 years ago, never looked back). ONE tire (the aforementioned GP4000S) in all those miles suffered a puncture due to a cut, and it wasn't the sidewall (right in middle of the contact area, with less than 100 miles). I will stick with Conti.

Doug


----------



## EverydayRide (Sep 12, 2008)

I use to ride with aluminum thin chains that drooped across the tops of each tire suspended by the brake bolts front and rear. These chain skimmers would rub/ride almost frictionless on top the tire and flick out debris before it punctured the tread. It usually takes a few rotations on a tire to have a sharp object work it's way into the tread. These chains would flick it out on first rotation.

Anyone know what I am talking about here?


----------



## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

JSummers said:


> I still have four 4000s on rims but now I am replacing them with Pro Race3s as they blow.


Can I have your old ones?

Conti 4000S (or black) are the most durable tires I've ever used... last longer than Krylions. 

Has Conti changed something?


----------



## rodist (Sep 2, 2005)

I just got a set of the 4000S. Put 500 miles on them in the past 2 weeks. I don't want to like them, but I do like them. I loved pro Race 2's also. I swithed 2 years ago from the race 2's to Fortezza Tri Comp because they offered a white wall and 145 psi. Those were ok but felt slow and got very square after 1200 miles.
The GP 4000S are surprisingly smooth (I weigh 160, Ride a C-50 with Ksyrium's SL3.
Front at 105 Rear at 113 and the ride is pretty damn good. Rolling resistance is really good and grip on turns excellent. I have ridden over some neighbor crap, glass, gravel and have no visible cuts. Also did about 300 miles of northern illinois farm road chip and seal with no problems.
I can already see that the rear tire has started to wear but barely. The Front still has the excess rubber line still down the middle. I'll put 500 more on in the next 2 weeks and give a new opinion. I wanted to hate these so I would try the Open Corsa EVO for the ride and the white stripe offered. But with the durability and ride of the conti's, I may be sticking with these.


----------



## JSummers (Nov 21, 2008)

rruff said:


> Can I have your old ones?
> 
> Conti 4000S (or black) are the most durable tires I've ever used... last longer than Krylions.
> 
> Has Conti changed something?


the ones with holes in the side sure. Send me some shipping money I will send them as they fail.
he still rides on them for training races and training so far cross my fingers he has not blown one out in at least two weeks


----------



## JSummers (Nov 21, 2008)

did I say something I should not have? yes I called the tire Junk 4000s well after I have payed for 6 tires and gone thru 3 replaced 2 more I am done with them, they are a nice tire look good handle well but my son kills them for some reason. my thinking the side walls are just a tad on the thin side and then again they dont seem to flex when he is crit training, but he did say throwing the bike into a turn with the ProRace3s he feels far more stable. Sorry if I got anyone all spooled up but I think I have given them a fair shake.


----------



## Specialized6000 (Aug 22, 2009)

God, its so hard to want to buy these tires when everyone says bad things about them(not everyone but 99.99% do) its either these or PRO3Races for me, just cant decide


----------



## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

they're just tires - it's not like you're deciding to marry someone or not. Buy a pair and try them. The 4000 and PR3 are both good tires (much better than clinchers used to be). I buy either one depending on which ones are cheaper at PBK - my experience is that the PR3 have a slightly better road feel but aren't quite as durable as the 4000.


----------



## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

stevesbike said:


> they're just tires - it's not like you're deciding to marry someone or not. Buy a pair and try them. The 4000 and PR3 are both good tires (much better than clinchers used to be). I buy either one depending on which ones are cheaper at PBK - my experience is that the PR3 have a slightly better road feel but aren't quite as durable as the 4000.


Well said.
I'm sure a few bad experience is inevitable with every equipment so have an open mind regarding any of them. 
I don't know a single equipment that everyone is happy with.....
For me, I have had great experience wih 4000/4000S.
My latest rear tire finally got a tiny nick after 3500 mile.....


----------



## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

I had so many problems with GP3000 and their sidewalls that I will not even try GP4000 even if they are the best tire on the planet....which they are not 
Continental will have to make more than one excellent model to make me buy their tires again.
And what do I ride? Well there is no tire that can meet all my expectations so I decided I need two types. If I want durable tire that is not prone to flats and has good sidewalls I'll use Michelin Krylion Carbon. That is the tire I ride the most. From all high mileage durable tires I find these to ride the best and they are indeed bombproof.
But if I want fast tire with good grip that will give me uncompromising riding experience I'll use Veloflex Pave or Vittoria Open Corsa EVO cx. I prefer Pave....on good road there is nothing that rides like them. Typically I'll put them for my anual Alpine hollidays.
Oh..and I'm 188cm with 100kg so I think I'm a ood tire tester


----------



## rodist (Sep 2, 2005)

*1200 miles and still perfect*

I have put 1300 miles on this first set of 4000S. Was going to swap front and rear but there is no need for that yet. Front still has the center bead still there and the rear bead is gone but no where near worn.
I find my Nag rides the best at 118 rear / 110 front. These are pretty sure footed in the wet also. Go caught in rain and 3 weekends in a row we have been fogged in in the NW Chicago area in the morning. No slipping even on an 18% climb in Bull Valley.

I'm sold. I have ZERO cuts on these and I have ran over some glass, large gravel, miles of chip and seal, miles of chip before they have sealed and some other stuff that made noise once I ran over it and you're waitting for a flat and NOTHING.
I have also come to love JUST BLACK TIRES with a small white logo.

If you are on the fence go for it.


----------



## black_box (Jun 7, 2008)

I just ordered the 4000s, there's a "german tire sale" on at worldclasscycles, comes w/ free tubes and shipping if you buy 2.


----------



## Cracka (Jul 20, 2009)

cbf reading replies.
any black GP4000 is a GP4000S or GP4000 black chilli....Just the sidewall writing is different between the three.

Any colored GP4000 is not the same. These are average at best.

As for blind test...You can tell the difference instantly in stopping tests between the black and colored versions. No comparison.


----------



## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

Specialized6000 said:


> God, its so hard to want to buy these tires when everyone says bad things about them(not everyone but 99.99% do) its either these or PRO3Races for me, just cant decide


I think you have your %s reversed. The vast majority of reviews for Conti 4000s are very good. If you look at this thread you will see that more individuals like them than don't.


----------

