# Velocity A23 Pro Build Wheelset



## farva (Jun 24, 2005)

Wondering if anyone has tried these? Are their house brand hubs any good? Do they come in pretty close to their 1400g claimed weight? Considering either buying this complete wheelset or picking up some a23 rims & lacing up my own set with some DT hubs. Thanks for any replies


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

Link?


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## farva (Jun 24, 2005)

Velocity - Content Template


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## Sparti (May 4, 2011)

I had these built last year at Pro Wheelbuilder in Las Vegas. Have put 1,900 miles on the wheels. Love them. I am running Continental Gatorskins 25mm on my CAAD 10. The handling especially on the corners feels a lot more secure and the comfort has improved on my aluminum frame. See below a copy of my order to get an idea of the build. 

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Front Hub
VELOCITY ROAD HUB FRONT BLACK Price $53.00 Drillings 24
Axle Width QR 100mm

*No Bearing Upgrade 
Front Lacing Pattern
Lacing: Two Cross 
Front Nipple
DT SWISS RED 14G 14MM ALLOY PROLOCK HEX NIPPLE
Price $0.85 
Front Rim
VELOCITY A23 MSW BLACK 700C FRONT RIM Price $61.00 Drillings 24
Size 700c/29er
Velocity Velo Plugs for 1 wheel + 7.50 
Front Spoke
SAPIM CX RAY J BEND BLACK SPOKES
Price $3.10 
Use
Commute Fitness 
User Weight
220 
Wheel Build Weight
619.04 


Rear Wheel

Build Time
Your wheel should be ready for shipment by July 18, 2011 
Rear Hub
WHITE INDUSTRIES H3 BLACK REAR HUB Price $258.00 Drillings 28
Axle Width QR 130mm
Ti Shimano/SRAM 8,9 or 10spd
*No Bearing Upgrade
*No Skewer 
Rear Lacing Pattern
Lacing: Three Cross 
Rear Nipple
DT SWISS RED 14G 14MM ALLOY PROLOCK HEX NIPPLE
Price $0.85 
Rear Rim
VELOCITY A23 MSW BLACK 700C REAR RIM Price $61.00 Drillings 28
Size 700c/29er
Velocity Velo Plugs for 1 wheel + 7.50 
Rear Spoke
SAPIM CX RAY J BEND BLACK SPOKES
Price $3.10 
Use
Commute Fitness 
User Weight
220 
Wheel Build Weight
802.88 

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## farva (Jun 24, 2005)

thanks. How is the velocity front hub? Any comments on their rear hub? I see you opted for a white industries rear hub in the back instead (nice). 

on a side note, also wondering if these wide rims can be setup safely to run 700 x 23 tubeless tires with stans conversion kit?


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## Sparti (May 4, 2011)

The weight I believe was around 1430. Hubs so far are pretty good but have not put too many miles on the wheels. My LBS really liked the rear White Industries hub but had no comments on the Velocity.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

I have a set of Escapes on the Velocity hubs, front and rear. They are 1 of my sets of Cyclocross race wheels. They are more than fine. Not the greatest spacing in the world, compared to Shimano specific hubs, but probably not far off from the DT Swiss 240 you are looking at as an alternative. The newer hubs coming out of Taiwan for the most part are pretty high quality. Pretty sure that is where Velocity sources there stuff, just like most of the folks out there. 

As for A23 builds, if you search around and have an LBS willing to do the build for you, you can source the parts for the build for under $300 from online sources. I just did it. Probably add another $100 to have the LBS do the assembly and build. Just another option.


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## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

I bought a set of A23 Pro Builds last March. 

I have about 2,000 miles on them. (It's one of four bikes, so my miles get spread around to the other three as well.) I've been very pleased with them. The hubs at both ends roll and roll and roll… 

The freehub body is aluminum, so you'll want to be sure that you torque your cassette fully so that the gears don't dig into it. But that's true of every aluminum freehub body.

I ride these wheels on cobblestones, on dirt and gravel roads, and on the potholed pavement of my commutes. They never complain. They happily ride over everything I've thrown at them. FWIW, when I can find some, they ride nice on good pavement too. 

When I bought mine, the best price I found was at bikemania.biz. Their price is still $600 for the set. I haven't compared pricing lately.

I have Velocity hoops on two other bikes, and one of those also has Velocity hubs. All together, I have about 11,000 miles on the three wheelsets. After 2½ years, I think I'll need to true the rear on my primary commuter come spring. That's all the maintenance any of them have had.


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## farva (Jun 24, 2005)

Thanks for the replies. Thinking I'll just pony up for the complete wheelset since their hubs are decent & they come with cx-ray spokes standard. Fair to say I could save a some coin by lacing up my own set with revolutions & comps instead, but I do really like the look, quality, & strength of the cx-rays. Cheers


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

Just a question for clarification. Are CX rays any stronger than Lasers/Revolutions? I know they are more aero, but they have the same gauge dimensions, so...


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## farva (Jun 24, 2005)

round vs bladed. 
x-rays do not require filing to fit thru thru a normal hub spoke hole

splitting hairs here a little - the weight of revolutions & cx-rays are about the same but cx-rays can be used on both the drive & not drive side of the rear wheel because they are stronger. Round spoked rear wheels typically use heavier (DT comps) on the drive side to balance the tension, but consequently makes for a slightly heavier wheel 

Just my personal experience, but the sapim spokes have a much softer flex when you are handling them. Not trying to start a debate on which is better, but I think they ride nicer too.

DT-Aerolites are almost identical cx-rays, but for some reason are even more expensive


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## farva (Jun 24, 2005)

sorry double post


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

farva said:


> round vs bladed.
> x-rays do not require filing to fit thru thru a normal hub spoke hole
> 
> splitting hairs here a little - the weight of revolutions & cx-rays are about the same but cx-rays can be used on both the drive & not drive side of the rear wheel because they are stronger. Round spoked rear wheels typically use heavier (DT comps) on the drive side to balance the tension, but consequently makes for a slightly heavier wheel
> ...


Not looking to debate this either, it was a straight forward question, no hidden agenda, just trying to understand. So having the ovalized cross-section makes them "stronger" because they don't flex the same in all directions? I'm still not following the "stronger" claim. Stiffer maybe because of the change in shape and the directions of stress. 

I've also seen plenty of full Rev builds DS and NDS in the rear. I guess that would be specified to a rider's needs. But I wouldn't say, based on my observations, that thin spokes always have a heavier thicker gauge spoke on the DS, so I am just trying to understand why someone would pick a particular build over another.


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## farva (Jun 24, 2005)

My apologies, I don't have the answer why they are physically stronger. Perhaps it's a combination of the material, shape, & processing they use? Maybe a metallurgy whiz can chime in... 

I'm just saying since they are stronger in tension & more ductile in compression so they can handle the loads of both sides of a rear wheel better than the a single diameter round spoke used in the same application. Could someone get away with rev's on both sides? probably depending on weight, spoke count, usage etc...Personally I agree with Sheldon brown's recommendation & use larger diameter on the DS when lacing round spokes. It just makes sense to me


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## zsir (Nov 14, 2008)

I'm about to build a set of a23's while I'd love to save money I'm going with the cx rays as opposed to the thin round spokes. the ability to control twist during the build and any subsequent adjustments that might be required the only reason.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

farva said:


> My apologies, I don't have the answer why they are physically stronger. Perhaps it's a combination of the material, shape, & processing they use? Maybe a metallurgy whiz can chime in...
> 
> I'm just saying since they are stronger in tension & more ductile in compression so they can handle the loads of both sides of a rear wheel better than the a single diameter round spoke used in the same application. Could someone get away with rev's on both sides? probably depending on weight, spoke count, usage etc...Personally I agree with Sheldon brown's recommendation & use larger diameter on the DS when lacing round spokes. It just makes sense to me


Sorry, not trying to be difficult or beat a dead horse, but where are you getting the tension and ductile compression information from? Mind sharing a link? My education and job has me using the scientist/practicioner model, so I tend not to take anything at face value.


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## NolesOrNothing (Aug 19, 2011)

195 LB rider currently in the process of an A23 build with my LBS. 24 radial front, 28 3X rear. DT Comps all around to save $ and brass nips. They will be laced to a AC Micro 58 and a AC 205. All Black components. Projected finished weight is 1500g. Seems to be a bit of a back log for the 24 hole A23 at moment leading to impatience. These will be an everyday set replacing some well used and still true 2005 Ksyrium Elites.


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## mattsavage (Apr 25, 2007)

farva said:


> on a side note, also wondering if these wide rims can be setup safely to run 700 x 23 tubeless tires with stans conversion kit?


I'm running Hutch. Intensive 25mm on my Deep V's tubeless. I know the A23's are just a bit wider, so I'm sure you'll have a nice wide profile on a 23mm tire like the Atom or Fusion. There shouldn't be any problems.


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## Crawf (Oct 21, 2010)

Have been riding on a new set I built 2 week ago; A23's, 28/32h, Laser's all round except for Race on DS with BHS hubs - 1560g, i'm 87kg. Seem great so far, have Hutchy Intensive's on them and the tyres are 23mm on my digital calipers, was a little disappointed on the tyre width actually, I was hoping for more girth.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

Crawf said:


> Have been riding on a new set I built 2 week ago; A23's, 28/32h, Laser's all round except for Race on DS with BHS hubs - 1560g, i'm 87kg. Seem great so far, have Hutchy Intensive's on them and the tyres are 23mm on my digital calipers, was a little disappointed on the tyre width actually, I was hoping for more girth.


I think a wider rim is less about girth and more about tire profile. What does the profile of the tire look like on the A23 compared to a more standard 19mm wide rim? That is where the difference will be seen (and I'm assuming felt).


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

krisdrum said:


> Sorry, not trying to be difficult or beat a dead horse, but where are you getting the tension and ductile compression information from? Mind sharing a link? My education and job has me using the scientist/practicioner model, so I tend not to take anything at face value.


The general claim of enhanced strength for the rays is that the forging process to make them oval also strengthens the spoke, as compared to the drawing that a butted spoke takes.

I won't back or deny the claim; that's just what it is.


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## farva (Jun 24, 2005)

danl1 said:


> The general claim of enhanced strength for the rays is that the forging process to make them oval also strengthens the spoke, as compared to the drawing that a butted spoke takes.
> 
> I won't back or deny the claim; that's just what it is.


- on the ductility Q (flexibility maybe the more appropriate term) 

take one round spoke & one cx-ray spoke of equal length & weight. 
put the threaded ends in a vise the same depth. 
flex the end of each spoke laterally with the same force. 
the cx-ray will deflect significantly further under the same force (without yielding)
Because they are just as strong yet more flexible is why they cost 3x as much 
...and IMO why they make a slightly better wheel. 

Just my .02


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## EMR (Apr 5, 2002)

NolesOrNothing,

I'm interested in your feedback on your custom wheel build.


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## NolesOrNothing (Aug 19, 2011)

EMR,
Thanks for you interest. The black A23s are 24 front 28 rear. I opted for Black American Classic Micro 58 front and 205 rear hubs on a very high recomendation from my LBS. I know folks on here have issues with them, but AC is located an hour from my LBS and I have a good relationship with the shop, so the expectations/ understanding is that if any issues arise they will be addressed quickly. I was also lucky in that a retired AC wheel builder did the build thru my LBS. They are laced radial front and 3X rear with black DT Comps and brass nips. Final weight is 1580 with skewers.

I'm 6' 2 " 195 on a 60- 2005 Cannondale Caad8 R1000, flat black of course. So far after 150 miles, they're great. Roll so much smoother and efficient than the 05 Mavic Ksryium Elites they replaced. 
I can roll right along with my training partner who sports Zipp 404s. They're stiff with no flex and corner great with a new set of Hutchinson Fusion 3s, 23 wide.


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## jmckee815 (Feb 3, 2012)

Just got my A23 build from Valleycyclist. Total weight 1549g I went with an all silver set up:

Front: 652g
A23 rim 24h
Velocity Race Hub
Spaim lasers
Brass nips
2x cross

Rear: 897g
A23 rim 28h
Velocity Race Hub
Spaim lasers NDS
Spaim race DS
Brass nips
2x cross

They sure look pretty. Hub is quieter than I would like, but they seem to roll smooth. I will post pics tonight. This was an upgrade over my Mavic Aksiums. I ended up fitting them with 700x23cc Vredestein Fortezza Tricomp's. Get to test them this weekend.


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## Crawf (Oct 21, 2010)

I'll throw my hat in, finished this build a couple of months ago, have been actually commuting on them for the last month, 5 days a week so they have been getting a good flogging on average surfaces. 
I thought I'd at least put a buckle in the rear wheel while commuting, but no - rock solid.

-28h, BHS 78g wide front hub, lasers, radial
-32h, BHS SL 211g rear, lasers NDS, race DS, x3.

1562g, me 85kg.


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## EMR (Apr 5, 2002)

Great info and pics!

My build will be A23's with a BHS sl wide 24h front hub, DT240 28h rear. Undecided on spokes at this point, but will probably go with DT Comp and alloy nipples.


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## gregnash (Jun 30, 2011)

Anyone else got reviews/pics of the BHS hubs on the A23s. Thinking of using these or a set of Circus Monkey HRW2's for my first ever build on A23s or something similar. These will be a super cheap/budget build so nothing more than BHS/CM hubs, A23s or similar cheap but good hoops and DT Comp spokes. I weigh 185/190 out of the shower and can be pretty hard on my equipment. These will be dual duty as commuter and CX wheels.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

I can take some pictures tonight. I just built 2 sets. 24/28 on BHS hubs and 32/32 on Shimano hubs. The 24/28s will get their first real test this Sunday as the crit season kicks off. 

I also have a pair of Major Toms (tubular version) which will be dedicated cross race wheels and will likely build another set of A23s to Shimano 32s later this year as cross pit/easily changeable tread wheels. 

The 24/28s came out nice, even despite my LBS messing up the tensioning process. They have Sapim Lasers all around, except DS, which has Sapim Races. With the hubs, I think they set me back like $260 for the parts. And that is with the more expensive thinner spokes. With standard double butted all around, you could probably get under $250.


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## gregnash (Jun 30, 2011)

I was thinking of getting the BHS as the set is about $50 cheaper than then Circus Monkeys, A23 and lace them up with white DT Comps. I weigh 185ish and figure I am pretty hard on my equipment plus with living in rocky No. NV the 32/32 should suit me well. So about $100 for hubs, cheapest I have found the A23 are $65/ea so $130 there and then the spokes which run about $.90 each... looking at closer to $300 with nipples.

Where do you guys find your stuff cheapest when building wheels up?


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

gregnash said:


> I was thinking of getting the BHS as the set is about $50 cheaper than then Circus Monkeys, A23 and lace them up with white DT Comps. I weigh 185ish and figure I am pretty hard on my equipment plus with living in rocky No. NV the 32/32 should suit me well. So about $100 for hubs, cheapest I have found the A23 are $65/ea so $130 there and then the spokes which run about $.90 each... looking at closer to $300 with nipples.
> 
> Where do you guys find your stuff cheapest when building wheels up?


Right, $100 for the BHS set.

Rims: Got mine from Universal. Closer to $60 even or less, depending on hole count

Spokes: Sapim Race (same dimensions as DT Comps) in Silver, $0.40 each, INCLUDING chromed brass nipples. From Dan's Comp. They will cut them to length for you, which is awesome. So do your calculations right. 

So even with shipping, you are still under $300 by a decent amount. 

Add some Veloplugs to the BHS or Universal order and you'll forego the need for rim tape.


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## gregnash (Jun 30, 2011)

Yeah I was just looking around and Universal seemed to be pretty mean with the price. Dont forget to add your VIP10 coupon for 10% off orders over $100, was enough to pay for cost of shipping


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

gregnash said:


> Yeah I was just looking around and Universal seemed to be pretty mean with the price. Dont forget to add your VIP10 coupon for 10% off orders over $100, was enough to pay for cost of shipping


I guess you found the Danscomp website. They are a BMX shop, so not alot of other items, but their prices on spokes are hard to compete with.


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## gregnash (Jun 30, 2011)

yeah... wow they do have good prices, how do the Sapims compare to the DT Swiss?


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

gregnash said:


> yeah... wow they do have good prices, how do the Sapims compare to the DT Swiss?


There are basically 3 high quality spoke companies. Wheelsmith, DT Swiss and Sapim. My understanding is they are all pretty comparable. 

DT Comp = Sapim Race (called just double butted on Danscomp site)
DT Revolution = Sapim Laser

I went with Lasers everywhere but the drive side, where I went with Races on the 24/28 pair. I went with Lasers all over on the 32/32 pair. We'll see how they do. Going with Races on the Major Toms and the 3rd set of A23s will have Wheelsmiths on them, because I already have the spokes in the right lengths.


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## gregnash (Jun 30, 2011)

Nice you will definitely have to post up some pics of the wheels. Like I said this will be going on a Kona Jake (red and white one) so was thinking of going with red hubs, black spokes and black rims (meh- an extra $7-$8 isn't that bad for the black ones).


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

gregnash said:


> Nice you will definitely have to post up some pics of the wheels. Like I said this will be going on a Kona Jake (red and white one) so was thinking of going with red hubs, black spokes and black rims (meh- an extra $7-$8 isn't that bad for the black ones).


The rims are black. Or are you thinking of omitting the machined brake track? You might want to re-think that, as eventually your brakes will rub through the anodizing, but not evenly. Might not look great.


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## gregnash (Jun 30, 2011)

Oh yeah I know that the rims have the machined lip that is silver.


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