# Has anyone tried the new Michelin Pro 4's?



## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

I've just order a pair of the service course (standard ones) about 200g. 
I wanted something that felt like my soft Vittoria's (actually Mavic K10 tyres that are just re-badged) but were as durable as my GP4000's, on paper these seemed like a good compromise between the two? 

The GP4000's I feel are the best all rounder, but riding the softer tyres was really nice, until you get cuts and flats that is...


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## shokhead (Dec 17, 2002)

I was checking out the MICHELIN®PRO4 Endurance and GP4000 S.


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## parity (Feb 28, 2006)

A good combination is to ride a nice supple tire on the front and one that is more puncture resistant on the back. The difference maybe 20-30 grams. But you may be pulled over by the style police.


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## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

parity said:


> A good combination is to ride a nice supple tire on the front and one that is more puncture resistant on the back. The difference maybe 20-30 grams. But you may be pulled over by the style police.


That is exactly what I'm doing at the moment, after 2 different flats in 2 days I put an old GP4000s on the back and left the front. On the old rear there are cuts that go all the way through the tyre belt to about 1-2mm cuts inside.


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## shokhead (Dec 17, 2002)

How are those GP4000S?


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## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

shokhead said:


> How are those GP4000S?


In my opinion the GP4000s are the go to tyres full stop. That said they are not a perfect 10 in every area, I believe they are the best compromise in every area.

The upsides of the GP4000s in my mind are;
Puncture/cut resistance, I have ridden thousands of k's of multiple sets of these and have NEVER had a flat, that is riding through city, country and everything in between. Also worth noting is that all of that riding was done with conti race supersonic 50g tubes, so all in all making a very light setup. 
Grip, they have been very predictable and confident, no complaints.
Rolling resistance, I think they are fine, but have no idea how people gauge this with any meaning.

The downsides;
They could be lighter, conti claim 205g per 23mm tyre, in fact they weigh in closer to 230g each. 
They ride a little harsh, the compound however grippy does seem fairly hard and you do notice this when riding softer tyres, it makes for a bumpier harsher ride on rough roads, but as above I believe this is the compromise for cut/puncture resistance.

So, why am I trying anything else? because the Conti's have such good puncture protection and I have never flatted one, I think that in that area I could trade a little protection for ride quality and weight, The Vittoria's are too soft, great feel but a blade of grass seems to cut these tyres! not a good trade there, I'm hoping that the Michelin Pro 4's fit somewhere in between, I know that they will not be as cut/puncture resistant as the conti's but I'm hoping they are only a little worse and that the upside of a softer tyre will be nice if they have just enough puncture protection to keep me happy. 

I am trying to find the line between puncture protection and ride quality/weight maybe these are it, maybe not, if not it's back to the GP4000s. for what its worth I'll also run the heavier (75g vs 50g) latex michelin tubes that will supposedly be slightly more puncture resistant than my conti tubes, given the claimed weights it will pretty much even out to my conti setup.


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## shokhead (Dec 17, 2002)

You know 25 grams is less then an ounce, right?


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## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

shokhead said:


> You know 25 grams is less then an ounce, right?


You crazy Americans with your ounces...


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## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

Ride Update: Tyres arrived, no problem to mount by hand no levers required. Very simply my impressions are as follows;
1. They ride is smoother than the GP4000s (could be the latex tube but I think more the tyre)
2. They definitely have more grip than the GP4000s, they feel very confident the best I've tried so far.
3. They are more nimble, this might be due to the more pointy profile of the tyre.
4. They are quicker, climbing they have a little less rolling resistance, but it's tough to notice, where I did notice was at speeds over 50km/h, where I'd be pushing to hit 50km/h I was able to hit 55km/h with what felt was the same effort. 

I haven't ridden long enough to test durability (no punctures or cuts yet) so I can't comment and that is obviously an area where the GP4000s excel. Also longevity, no idea yet. 

In conclusion, if the puncture resistance is acceptable these are definitely better than the GP4000s, I'll have to report back on that! Touch wood..


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## shokhead (Dec 17, 2002)

Keep us updated.


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## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

shokhead said:


> Keep us updated.


Will do, so far if you can't already tell I'm very impressed with these tyres :thumbsup:


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Data?*



sp3000 said:


> Ride Update: Tyres arrived, no problem to mount by hand no levers required. Very simply my impressions are as follows;
> 1. They ride is smoother than the GP4000s (could be the latex tube but I think more the tyre)
> 2. They definitely have more grip than the GP4000s, they feel very confident the best I've tried so far.
> 3. They are more nimble, this might be due to the more pointy profile of the tyre.
> 4. They are quicker, climbing they have a little less rolling resistance, but it's tough to notice, where I did notice was at speeds over 50km/h, where I'd be pushing to hit 50km/h I was able to hit 55km/h with what felt was the same effort.


2 how can you tell they have more grip? Are you taking turns at such lean angles and speeds that you regularly experience slip? If not, what are your metrics for "more grip"?

4 what does your stopwatch say? "Feeling faster" and "what felt the same" are pretty much useless. Where were you hitting 50 and 55 km/hr? On the flats that would require 30% more power - there is no way that could be coming from the difference between these tires.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Kerry Irons said:


> 2 how can you tell they have more grip? Are you taking turns at such lean angles and speeds that you regularly experience slip? If not, what are your metrics for "more grip"?
> 
> 4 what does your stopwatch say? "Feeling faster" and "what felt the same" are pretty much useless. Where were you hitting 50 and 55 km/hr? On the flats that would require 30% more power - there is no way that could be coming from the difference between these tires.


Why does everyone on these forums expect people who post reviews for stuff to own a power meter and a wind tunnel?


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## pdh777 (Oct 7, 2005)

Be interested to hear your long term report on the Pro 4's. I really liked the road feel of the Pro 3's -liked them better than the Victoria's CX' Kevlars - unfortunately durability left something to be desired.
I do use the Michelin Krylions on one bike and also like the road feel - durability seems to be fine at about 1,000 miles - they do come in at 235 grams, but this weight doesn't bother me in the least.


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## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

Kerry Irons said:


> 2 how can you tell they have more grip? Are you taking turns at such lean angles and speeds that you regularly experience slip? If not, what are your metrics for "more grip"?
> 
> 4 what does your stopwatch say? "Feeling faster" and "what felt the same" are pretty much useless. Where were you hitting 50 and 55 km/hr? On the flats that would require 30% more power - there is no way that could be coming from the difference between these tires.


Thanks for the post, might want to get a dictionary out and look up the word "impression" next time though...


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## Surestick Malone (Jan 11, 2003)

sp3000 said:


> Thanks for the post, might want to get a dictionary out and look up the word "impression" next time though...


You do have to admit that saying they have more grip if he never took them to the limit is kind of ridiculous though, don't you?
How can you have the "impression" they have more grip if you never actually rode them hard enough to tell (and how often do any of us regularly slide our tires in turns)? 
That said, this is the internet...


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## carlosflanders (Nov 23, 2008)

Surestick Malone said:


> You do have to admit that saying they have more grip if he never took them to the limit is kind of ridiculous though, don't you?
> How can you have the "impression" they have more grip if you never actually rode them hard enough to tell (and how often do any of us regularly slide our tires in turns)?
> That said, this is the internet...


Totally disagree. Tires give a lot of feedback. Riders are very sensitive to the ease with which they can take a corner, or do a curvy descent.

I can take 5 psi out and take a tighter line through a high speed crit corner that I wasn't able to do with higher pressure. Similarly, I can take that corner faster with a 25 mm versus a 23 mm. I love PR3s, but for a rainy crit I'll go for contis - a lot less rear wheel slip, and I've slid my rear wheel may times in the rain.


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## Surestick Malone (Jan 11, 2003)

carlosflanders said:


> Totally disagree. Tires give a lot of feedback. Riders are very sensitive to the ease with which they can take a corner, or do a curvy descent.
> 
> I can take 5 psi out and take a tighter line through a high speed crit corner that I wasn't able to do with higher pressure. Similarly, I can take that corner faster with a 25 mm versus a 23 mm. I love PR3s, but for a rainy crit I'll go for contis - a lot less rear wheel slip, and I've slid my rear wheel may times in the rain.


That would fall under "confidence inspiring" or "better road feel" not "grip".
Until the tire slides it is gripping, unless the rider takes the tire to the point where it slides they cannot say anything about how well it grips. 
It's semantics but it is something that I see often in tire reviews and it has always bothered me.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Expectations*



deviousalex said:


> Why does everyone on these forums expect people who post reviews for stuff to own a power meter and a wind tunnel?


I don't see how you drew that conclusion from my post. The conclusion I would like you to draw from my post is that there are a lot of questionable claims on this forum and that people make bad decisions if they believe those questionable claims. Therefore, those questionable claims should be challenged. 

I don't have a power meter or a wind tunnel, but I do know how to calculate the power required to ride a bicycle (see Bicycling Science, Wilson, MIT Press or analyticcycling.com). When someone claims numbers that are grossly at variance with the real world, that needs to be challenged.


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## shokhead (Dec 17, 2002)

You mean when someone on here says they ride 50mph in the drops for 5 straight hours I shouldn't belive it?


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## mwags (Sep 22, 2011)

How about someone just answer the question. Why is this forum like this, everyone is ready to critique everything that you say. Mountain bike forums are nothing like this.


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## shokhead (Dec 17, 2002)

Been like this as long as I've been here. Gets old.


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## Chico2000 (Jul 7, 2011)

mwags said:


> How about someone just answer the question. Why is this forum like this, everyone is ready to critique everything that you say. Mountain bike forums are nothing like this.


Tend to agree with you on this. A few things I've noticed about some roadies:
-more concerned about the appearance(stuff needs to match) of their bikes compared to MTBers.

-less tolerant of cold weather. (I've read things like, "Oh, was below 45 today..riding season is over")

-more snarky and opinionated 

I have more to list but it looks like the temps are above 50 degrees now ...so I'm going out for a road ride.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Kerry Irons said:


> On the flats that would require 30% more power - there is no way that could be coming from the difference between these tires.


Agreed. The tires would need to have negative rolling resistance to achieve this feat. Kinda neat, actually, but you have to be careful to tie down your bike while not using it: It'll just roll away by itself otherwise...


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## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

mwags said:


> How about someone just answer the question. Why is this forum like this, everyone is ready to critique everything that you say. Mountain bike forums are nothing like this.


That is exactly what I was going to say, been over at MTBR for years now and the people are awesome, bend over backwards to help. I've had guys on the other side of the world get parts for me that was a struggle in Australia, they are unreal, makes for a great community. Here it seems a lot of guys need to prove how hard core they are behind a keyboard. 

I stopped replying to this thread because I was here to help out curious riders that were considering trying these tyres like I was, I just wanted to give my impressions of what they are like as this would have been all I wanted from someone else. I'm not a professional tester, I have a day job. If people don't find my thread useful or to the level of information they require that's fine, but why bother making rude posts? Maybe they have to make themselves feel superior for some reason,.. tough day?

Roadies are nothing like MTB guys, of course there are good ones but damn there sure are some D-bags... I mean jeez, god forbid you gave a nod while riding in the middle of nowhere to another roadie, what an amateur that would make you... 

If there is anyone that does feel like they care about what I have to say I'll happily continuing replying, but in this case I obviously need to make something clear to a few people (they know who they are) I will only be replying my own personal _opinions_ on how these _feel_ to me, or how cut/puncture resistant I _believe_ they are compared to others I've used. If that disclaimer dosen't work for you please feel free to .... ...


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## shokhead (Dec 17, 2002)

What size and psi are you doing?


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## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

700x23, 110 PSI


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*limits*



Kerry Irons said:


> 2 how can you tell they have more grip? Are you taking turns at such lean angles and speeds that you regularly experience slip? If not, what are your metrics for "more grip"?
> 
> 4 what does your stopwatch say? "Feeling faster" and "what felt the same" are pretty much useless. Where were you hitting 50 and 55 km/hr? On the flats that would require 30% more power - there is no way that could be coming from the difference between these tires.


On my commute route, there is an intersection with a 4 way stop. The road is *always* wet there, as run off from sprinklers puddles up before reaching a drain. So, every single time I've ridden to work, 3 days per week for 5 1/2 years, I have started out from a dead stop at this intersection. I have ridden all my road bikes to work, with all sorts of tires. I have found that there are some tires that will slip like crazy on me while accellerating, and some that don't slip. It is very consistent, too. I can definitely tell a difference between a Gatorskin and a Vittoria Open Corsa. But, I suppose that since they are breaking loose, they really are "at the limits" for that circumstance.


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## Ronman (Feb 12, 2007)

I appreciate your input on the PR 4s, SP. I'll be looking at a set when my PR3s wear out. 
And I for one do believe a tire can be analyzed and rated with something other than a calculator, spec sheet and outside a laboratory. Ridden at the limit or under certain situations a tire will definitely have characteristics that can be felt and measured at the handlebar, seat and pedals, and these characteristics are appreciated by the rider and instill confidence (or not). If someone truly believes such characteristics can only be meaured scientifically, they obviously haven't the talent or ability to ride as well as they read theory. If performance and ride characteristics could be measured entirely through scientific theory and data bases, then why do manufacturers have test riders?
There, that should p*ss a few guys off.


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## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

Ronman said:


> I appreciate your input on the PR 4s, SP. I'll be looking at a set when my PR3s wear out.
> And I for one do believe a tire can be analyzed and rated with something other than a calculator, spec sheet and outside a laboratory. Ridden at the limit or under certain situations a tire will definitely have characteristics that can be felt and measured at the handlebar, seat and pedals, and these characteristics are appreciated by the rider and instill confidence (or not). If someone truly believes such characteristics can only be meaured scientifically, they obviously haven't the talent or ability to ride as well as they read theory. If performance and ride characteristics could be measured entirely through scientific theory and data bases, then why do manufacturers have test riders?
> There, that should p*ss a few guys off.


+1:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Thanks, I'll keep you posted with further comments, so far they have still been great, no noticeable cuts or anything like that. The Latex tubes are also doing well but have a pretty consistent drop of about 20psi a day, this doesn't bother me at all as even with butyl I had maybe a 10psi a day drop so was well in the habit of a quick pump up before every ride, not to mention that also being pretty good practice as I have picked up more than one slow leak this way and been able to sort it out before getting on the road.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Not to add to the flame war, but in all these bike reviews on magazines people use the same things. They say "according to blah manufacturer frontend stiffness is increased by 3 billion % and you can definitely feel it!".
I'm waiting for all the haters on this thread to start sending hate mail to all the bike magazines.


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## Surestick Malone (Jan 11, 2003)

Ronman said:


> I appreciate your input on the PR 4s, SP. I'll be looking at a set when my PR3s wear out.
> And I for one do believe a tire can be analyzed and rated with something other than a calculator, spec sheet and outside a laboratory. Ridden at the limit or under certain situations a tire will definitely have characteristics that can be felt and measured at the handlebar, seat and pedals, and these characteristics are appreciated by the rider and instill confidence (or not). If someone truly believes such characteristics can only be meaured scientifically, they obviously haven't the talent or ability to ride as well as they read theory. If performance and ride characteristics could be measured entirely through scientific theory and data bases, then why do manufacturers have test riders?
> There, that should p*ss a few guys off.


Heh heh... I'm a bit annoyed at being tagged as one of the "haters" in this thread a few posts up when all I was doing was arguing for logic and accuracy in reviews but not by your post. 
To answer your question though, I'd imagine the test riders are there to test road feel and tire performance in real world conditions from a qualitative point of view (versus the quantitative POV the test machines will give).


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## shokhead (Dec 17, 2002)

Nothing more real world then the guy on here telling his thoughts.


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## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

shokhead said:


> Nothing more real world then the guy on here telling his thoughts.


And I'm not being paid by the company I'm reviewing! Funny how, more often than not, the winner of a "test" is announced on one page and on the next there is a full page ad for the very same brand!


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## shokhead (Dec 17, 2002)

sp3000 said:


> And I'm not being paid by the company I'm reviewing! Funny how, more often than not, the winner of a "test" is announced on one page and on the next there is a full page ad for the very same brand!


Took the words right out of my mouth.


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## hbidleman (Jan 8, 2008)

Has anyone seen the Pro Race 4 Comp listed anywhere for sale? Doesn't appear the common retailers are carrying them yet.


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## shokhead (Dec 17, 2002)

MICHELIN PRO4 Endurance,
MICHELIN PRO4 Service Course,
MICHELIN PRO4 Comp Service Course,
MICHELIN PRO4 Comp Limited Service Course.


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## climbinthebigring (Mar 13, 2011)

Kerry Irons said:


> 2 how can you tell they have more grip? Are you taking turns at such lean angles and speeds that you regularly experience slip? If not, what are your metrics for "more grip"?
> 
> 4 what does your stopwatch say? "Feeling faster" and "what felt the same" are pretty much useless. Where were you hitting 50 and 55 km/hr? On the flats that would require 30% more power - there is no way that could be coming from the difference between these tires.


Do you honestly think that cycling is anything but a mind game? If tires feel good to you or inspire confidence in the corner than you will go faster. Doesn't matter if they really are faster in any way. If you think they are faster you will be. 

You should pull the power meter/ garmin of your bike and just go for a ride one day. It's crazy, you won't know how fast you are going or how far you've gone or how many calories you've burned. Only downside is you can't upload your fastest time up some lame climb to try and beat all the other pro wannabe's time on strava.


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## shokhead (Dec 17, 2002)

Lot of pro wannabe's .


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Can't do it*



climbinthebigring said:


> You should pull the power meter/ garmin of your bike and just go for a ride one day. It's crazy, you won't know how fast you are going or how far you've gone or how many calories you've burned. Only downside is you can't upload your fastest time up some lame climb to try and beat all the other pro wannabe's time on strava.


Not possible. I don't ride with a power meter, a Garmin, or any kind of bike computer. The only electronics I take on a bike ride is my watch. Sorry to disappoint.


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## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

hbidleman said:


> Has anyone seen the Pro Race 4 Comp listed anywhere for sale? Doesn't appear the common retailers are carrying them yet.


Michelin Pro4 Comp Road Clincher

I've seen them here but they have always had a November available date, and are still not available, I don't think they have shipped to retailers yet only the standard ones.


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## smoo (Sep 20, 2007)

Chico2000 said:


> Tend to agree with you on this. A few things I've noticed about some roadies:





Chico2000 said:


> -less tolerant of cold weather. (I've read things like, "Oh, was below 45 today..riding season is over")


That's because we're missing that extra 10kg of subcutaneous insulation that most MTBers have.. :wink5:

Seriously, I've no objection to subjective impressions, interesting to get any feedback.

I'm waiting to hear about how the standard Pro4s compare to the Pro4 comps. Michelin rate the comps as very slightly less puncture resistant than the pro3s, although they still have the nylon band (unlike the comp limited), are 20g lighter and supposedly considerably faster and gripper.


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## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

I was really interested in trying the comps too, but as I said earlier I haven't seen them in stock anywhere! The Pro 4's though seem to be available almost everywhere online now.


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## Pitts Pilot (Dec 5, 2011)

mwags said:


> How about someone just answer the question. Why is this forum like this, everyone is ready to critique everything that you say. Mountain bike forums are nothing like this.


Totally agree with you on all three points. I've been posting here like 3 days. I try to express an opinion and end up defending myself for 5 posts from:mad2: a completely unrelated attack.


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## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

I guess that is why we have "Road Rage" but not Off-Road Rage?


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

sp3000 said:


> That is exactly what I was going to say, been over at MTBR for years now and the people are awesome, bend over backwards to help.


I tried MTBR. I left after just a few posts. I posted about my preference for hardtails for riding the terrain in Indiana (except Brown County) and how I thought the prevalence of full suspension was reducing the skills that younger MTBers have. No need to float over the saddle on a FS bike. No need for finesse....just blast through whatever. Riding a hardtail, OTOH, makes you develop skills that can be carried over to the road.

I was flamed for 20 or 30 posts, so I just left.


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## evo_test (Dec 2, 2011)

I have tried them. they are amazing.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

I just had 2 pinch flats with the Pro Race 3s on one ride yesterday. It turned out to be a tear in the sidewall. The tire has about 2,500 miles on it. I think I'm done with them after that.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

deviousalex said:


> I just had 2 pinch flats with the Pro Race 3s on one ride yesterday. It turned out to be a tear in the sidewall. The tire has about 2,500 miles on it. I think I'm done with them after that.


2500 is pretty much at/past the lifespan of Pro 3s. 
2000 miles is more realistic.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

PlatyPius said:


> 2500 is pretty much at/past the lifespan of Pro 3s.
> 2000 miles is more realistic.


The rest of the tire looked brand new though =(.


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## Pitts Pilot (Dec 5, 2011)

Can you comment on the actual measured width? If you can't give an exact measurement, perhaps just your impression of whether it's on the narrow or wide side of 23.


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## samh (May 5, 2004)

*prorace4*

Can you compare to prorace3



sp3000 said:


> Ride Update: Tyres arrived, no problem to mount by hand no levers required. Very simply my impressions are as follows;
> 1. They ride is smoother than the GP4000s (could be the latex tube but I think more the tyre)
> 2. They definitely have more grip than the GP4000s, they feel very confident the best I've tried so far.
> 3. They are more nimble, this might be due to the more pointy profile of the tyre.
> ...


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## Chico2000 (Jul 7, 2011)

smoo said:


> That's because we're missing that extra 10kg of subcutaneous insulation that most MTBers have.. :wink5:
> .


You could be on to something there.


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## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

Pitts Pilot said:


> Can you comment on the actual measured width? If you can't give an exact measurement, perhaps just your impression of whether it's on the narrow or wide side of 23.


I'll grab a set of calipers and do this properly but, and I think I have it very close with a ruler and eye, they seem to be spot on 24mm, riding width if anything I would say "feels" on the slightly larger side of 23mm, so 24mm could be right. I will update in the next day or so.


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## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

samh said:


> Can you compare to prorace3


Sorry, I came over from Conti GP4000s. Never rode PR3 but heard good things hence me trying the 4's.


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## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

Pictures tell a thousand words...
One thing of interest is the peaked or pointy profile of the tyre, when I first got them it seemed very pointy, after a few rides this has smoothed down to a nice shape.
On a purely aesthetic note, the plain white logo on straight up black tyres looks nice.


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## MojoHamuki (Feb 20, 2009)

The 3s are sick. You have to remember its a race tire. You dont commute on these and you dont log thousands of miles. They are meant to be ridden fast and hard then quickly replaced by a new set. Just like car racing wheels


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## Pitts Pilot (Dec 5, 2011)

I'm liking the logo/look quite a bit. My bike has zero color (as it seems may be the case with yours,) so the black and white is a definite plus for me. I'm also liking the wider edge of 23, as opposed to the narrower side. I (will shortly) have 23mm HED rims and I think this tire could be a nice match. I wish the comp version was available. I prefer performance to wear - especially since the list of tires I want to try is growing fast!

thanks sp3000 for taking the time


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## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

Pitts Pilot said:


> I'm liking the logo/look quite a bit. My bike has zero color (as it seems may be the case with yours,) so the black and white is a definite plus for me. I'm also liking the wider edge of 23, as opposed to the narrower side. I (will shortly) have 23mm HED rims and I think this tire could be a nice match. I wish the comp version was available. I prefer performance to wear - especially since the list of tires I want to try is growing fast!
> 
> thanks sp3000 for taking the time


No worries:thumbsup:

I'll post a pic of the whole bike in the morning, it's a bit dark now, then you can see the colour scheme if that helps. 

I agree with wanting the comps, I'd be happy to get fewer k's out of them, I'm only a little scared if they puncture more easily. If the main difference is the wear then that's ok by me.


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## Pitts Pilot (Dec 5, 2011)

Exactly!


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## shokhead (Dec 17, 2002)

My main concern is if they puncture very easy. Riding on conti 4-season I don't get flats, ever so switching would be hard.


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## smoo (Sep 20, 2007)

There's always going to be some (inverse) compromise between puncture resistance and rolling resistance, although some tyres may have better puncture resistance given their rolling resistance.

I only get around 2 punctures a year riding Pro3s during the summer, which I can happily live with in exchange for the performance benefit. The standard Pro4s shouldn't be any worse for punctures (they're claimed by Michelin to be better), so the big question for me is weather the Pro4 comps are significantly worse. If not, I'll take the lower weight and performance benefits!


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## veloduffer (Aug 26, 2004)

deviousalex said:


> I just had 2 pinch flats with the Pro Race 3s on one ride yesterday. It turned out to be a tear in the sidewall. The tire has about 2,500 miles on it. I think I'm done with them after that.


I think you got your money's worth with these. You can't expect a soft performance tire to do much more than that. There's always a tradeoff between suppleness and durability.


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## Chris-X (Aug 4, 2011)

deviousalex said:


> I just had 2 pinch flats with the Pro Race 3s on one ride yesterday. It turned out to be a tear in the sidewall. The tire has about 2,500 miles on it. I think I'm done with them after that.


Are they worn down to the casing?


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Chris-X said:


> Are they worn down to the casing?


Nope, looked almost new really.


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## shokhead (Dec 17, 2002)

smoo said:


> There's always going to be some (inverse) compromise between puncture resistance and rolling resistance, although some tyres may have better puncture resistance given their rolling resistance.
> 
> I only get around 2 punctures a year riding Pro3s during the summer, which I can happily live with in exchange for the performance benefit. The standard Pro4s shouldn't be any worse for punctures (they're claimed by Michelin to be better), so the big question for me is weather the Pro4 comps are significantly worse. If not, I'll take the lower weight and performance benefits!


You don't think your performance benefits are suffering as your off your bike not riding while fixing a flat? See that's how I look at it. I'll take another 15-25 grams vs not stopping to fix a flat.


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## Pitts Pilot (Dec 5, 2011)

I don't think you can reasonably ask this tire to compete with the 4-Season on puncture resistance. If you don't mind the weight, stick with the 4-Season or perhaps the "Endurance" version of the Pro 4. The service course lines up more with the 4000s. For me, "performance benefits" are about how it feels/corners/stops and doesn't include puncture resistance. Fixing an occasional flat doesn't affect my performance because, while I love to go fast, I'm not in a hurry overall. If you race, it's a different story, but I don't. I have good flat karma even on really light tires, but I'm willing to ride them for 1,000 miles and give them to a friend or toss them out. I think too many guys ride race tires beyond their intended miles and then complain about their flats. These same makers do design tires to address that concern.


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## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

As I have said earlier and it's being brought to light now, tyre choice is all about compromise. If you have a team car with a new wheel ready to go then you can go all out and get the best performing tyre for the day knowing at worst it's a quick change over. If you are riding on your own on city streets you might want the puncture protection so you're not forever stopping to repair flats. My search is based 100% on finding a tyre that for my riding environment gives me the best performance with an acceptable level of flats (acceptable to me is not twice in two days like i had with Vittoria Evo's) however when I rode the GP4000s I almost never had flats, now while that is great and the performance of the GP is very good I think there are better performing tyres out there. Bringing this to the case in point, the Michelin Pro 4's do ride better than the GP4000s so far I have had no flats so I can conclude at the moment that the MP4's work for me given the performance/puncture compromise, I will see how the next few months go and if I still do well in the puncture department I'll be happy to push my luck with the comp version to see the trade off again, if it's not as good I'll go back to the MP4's and again if the MP4's don't work out in a few months I'll go back to the GP's. 
It's all about finding the limit of the compromise given your own riding conditions.


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## shokhead (Dec 17, 2002)

Well I'm ready to try a different tire so it's either will be the GP4000s or Michelin Pro 4's.


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## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

shokhead said:


> Well I'm ready to try a different tire so it's either will be the GP4000s or Michelin Pro 4's.


You can't go wrong with the GP4000s, I think the Pro 4's are better but too early to tell regarding flats (so far so good though).


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## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

Tyres on bike full pic as promised.


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## shokhead (Dec 17, 2002)

Nice clean looking bike.


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## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

shokhead said:


> Nice clean looking bike.


Thanks:thumbsup: I love it!


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## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

amypearson said:


> that is my question


I have been thinking about that and it only lead me to another question, why do people who want that sort of data and seem to criticise anything based on "non-scientific" views even bother to visit these forums that are full of regular people and their opinions? 
They would be better served by writing to manufactures or buying "unbiased" reviews in magazines. Either way, as their mother should have taught them "If you ain't got nothin' nice or useful to say, shut it". I actually find people's real world opinions more interesting and useful than data on a page.:thumbsup:


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## tantra (Jan 8, 2008)

What large chain ring are you running on those 7800 cranks?


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## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

tantra said:


> What large chain ring are you running on those 7800 cranks?


It is a Shimano Yumeya 53T ring.


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## darwinosx (Oct 12, 2010)

sp3000 said:


> 700x23, 110 PSI


Last time I had Miches they were noticeably wider than Conti's. That could also account for ride differences if it is still true. I had 25's.


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## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

Measured with digital calipers on Mavic K10 (Ksyrium) rims front 19mm wide the tyre measures at it's widest point between 23.96mm and 24.07mm (at the bulge in the sidewall) and 22.12mm if measured to the grip track where it meets the side wall.

EDIT: this was all measured at 110psi


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## shokhead (Dec 17, 2002)

sp3000 said:


> Measured with digital calipers on Mavic K10 (Ksyrium) rims front 19mm wide the tyre measures at it's widest point between 23.96mm and 24.07mm (at the bulge in the sidewall) and 22.12mm if measured to the grip track where it meets the side wall.
> 
> EDIT: this was all measured at 110psi


Measured with a rider on or off the bike?


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## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

shokhead said:


> Measured with a rider on or off the bike?


Off..


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## twiggy (Mar 23, 2004)

I find it interesting that so many people talk of poor puncture resistance with PR3's... My brother works for Michelin so (b/c of his discount) we stockpile them, but there is almost no point... I run each set for at least 1.5-2 years of regular riding before I replace mine due to wear... and I kid you not - I've NEVER gotten a flat in the 5ish years I've been running the PR3s... compare that to when I bought a Cervelo with Vittorias on it and had 5 flats in my first 7 rides...


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## shokhead (Dec 17, 2002)

I have had that kind of no flat luck with 4-seasons. Lots of glass and stickers around.


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## krisv7 (Apr 28, 2011)

WOW! Awesome bike! :thumbsup:


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## darwinosx (Oct 12, 2010)

I also use Conti 4 seasons. I'm a big boy and like to ride 25's or 28's and reliability is very important to me. These tires last and last.


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## ishelton58 (Dec 17, 2011)

I just bought the Continental Grand Prix Triathalon. I've put a few miles on them and I really like them. They're so smooth feeling. I'm riding on my old inner tubes though because the ones I just bought both got pinched. They were the Specialized Turbo Tube. Too thin. Anyone got a good racing tube that aren't too expencive or thin? I do alot of time trials.


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## terminus123 (Sep 24, 2009)

any news on the Pro4 sp3000? thinking about getting the PRO4Comps


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## sp3000 (Jul 10, 2007)

terminus123 said:


> any news on the Pro4 sp3000? thinking about getting the PRO4Comps


No news is good news! 

So far they are still awesome, don't want to jinx anything...but they haven't had any issues yet. they are wearing very well and still feel great. I don't see myself ever going back to the GP's. After these wear out I will definitely try the comps (if they are out by then!) and see what their durability is like, they may be the line I've been looking for between performance and puncture resistance, if the comps puncture too easily I'll go back to the standard Pro 4's and stick with them.:thumbsup:


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

sp3000 said:


> "If you ain't got nothin' nice or useful to say, shut it". I actually find people's real world opinions more interesting and useful than data on a page.:thumbsup:


Wow... I'm sorry that Kerry had to suffer your rude inanities alone. 

You made claims that were obviously factually incorrect. Better cornering grip and 5km/hr faster. Kerry called you on them.

If you have an opinion that is fine. Do you know the difference between opinion and fact?


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## shokhead (Dec 17, 2002)

I didn't it rude at all but no shocker on this forum someone might. I wish alot more would go by "If you ain't got nothin' nice or useful to say, shut it". This forum would be a better place but I suspect you wouldn't agree with that, opinion or fact.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Kerry had a very useful thing to say... it was factually true and relevant to the topic. 

Most of what goes on in the bicycle business is hype and placebo driven... but some of us are interested in reality. You can talk about your impressions of things all day long... but if you make statements that aren't true, then it is juvenile to cop an attitude when someone points it out.


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