# Steel frame suggestions



## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

I have come into a little bit of money and am considering a custom steel frame. I want a lugged steel frame and steel fork. Something that reflects craftsmanship and is as much art as it is functional. I am thinking fancy lugs, perhaps chromed or stainless. I am a 50 year old recreational rider so performance is not my top concern. I’d prefer something compliant with predictable, stable handling. I am not concerned about weight. I would probably build it up with Athena or Chorus and as many non-carbon parts as possible. I am looking for suggestions of a builder that is within driving distance and has experience with making great frames like I described. I am about 10 miles east of Philadelphia. I am also not opposed to a steel “off the rack” frame that meets the criteria. Thanks for any suggestions


----------



## eflayer2 (Feb 15, 2002)

i would guess you know these guys seem to have a great reputation. why look any further?

Ultralite-Classic Road


----------



## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Tom Kellogg at Spectrum is in PA. I hear there's a significant wait for one of his bikes. 

Spectrum Cycles | The Perfect Bike Does Not Exist Until We Build it for You.

Those frames Bilenky makes are nice too. 

For a classic look, Campy Athena looks nice, but get the Chorus shifters. Even though you can get Athena shifters in silver, they don't work as well and aren't ultrashift.


----------



## rider9 (May 27, 2011)

Dave Anderson - He primarily works with steel. he can do lugged and fancy lugs at that. Here is his web site: ANDERSON CUSTOM BICYCLES - Bicycles built by hand for YOU, not the masses

Never mind, he is in Minnesota. You did say driving distance.


----------



## rider9 (May 27, 2011)

pmf said:


> Tom Kellogg at Spectrum is in PA. I hear there's a significant wait for one of his bikes.
> 
> Spectrum Cycles | The Perfect Bike Does Not Exist Until We Build it for You.
> 
> ...


Athena has Ultrashift. I just ordered an Athena group.


----------



## Fred 853 (Jul 25, 2012)

Waterford will build you a frame with custom geometry, and the company has some beautiful polished stainless steel lugs available. 
See Neuvo-Coco Custom Lugs








Trophy Bike Shop in Philadelphia is a Waterford dealer and can measure you for a custom frame.
OUR BRANDS | Trophy Bikes

You might also try Oswald Cycle Works in Mansfield, PA
Oswald Cycle Works...local bicycle shop and custom bicycle frames handmade by Tom Oswald
https://www.oswaldcycleworks.com/thohead.jpg
https://www.oswaldcycleworks.com/mjolbothead.jpg
https://www.oswaldcycleworks.com/jschstem.jpg


----------



## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

I was in pretty much your position five years ago when I decided to get a custom lugged steel bike as a retirement gift to myself. Reynolds had just come out with the 953 stainless tubeset, and after reading the blogs of some early adopting 953 framebuilders like Bob Brown, I set my sights on a stainless frame knowing there would be a price premium.

Waterford is in Wisconsin, but there is a large dealer network with experienced fitters who are graduates of the Waterford Fitmaster fitting school, so being within driving distance of Waterford shouldn't matter as Fred 853 says. I've been riding my bike for five years, with three S.F. to L.A. (545 miles in 7 days) AIDS/LifeCycle rides under my belt, and I'm still on my honeymoon with the bike. At the ripe young age of 70, I'll be doing the ride again this coming June.

Scooper's 953 Waterford RS-22


----------



## azpeterb (Jun 1, 2006)

Last year I also came into some money...paid off some bills, put some into savings, but then treated myself to the Italian dream bike that I've been lusting for ever since I was a teen in the 80's. I ordered the frame from Pelizzoli, the owner being the founder of the famed Ciocc line back in the 70's, and then built it up with Campy Chorus components after the frame arrived from Italy. It has the features that you mentioned....some chrome, excellent lugwork, hand crafted steel frame, that unmistakeable Italian flair, and I love it....I just love this bike! The frame was a steal last year too, just about $1000 for the frame and delivery, but I think their prices may have gone up a bit more recently. Anyway, here's a pic of the same frame and color that I have, the Corsa GP:

View attachment 272611


EDIT: I just noticed that you are looking for something within driving distance, and obviously Italy doesn't fit the bill. But if you got measured you could always send the specs to Pelizzoli and they would build the frame. They also have stock sizes, which is the route I went....those aren't as costly as the custom jobs. All I can say is the ride is plush, really the most comfortable ride I've ever had. And that's with a steel fork, not carbon.


----------



## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

Those lugs are awesome! It says they are available painted. I can't imagine why anyone would want to do that.


----------



## slitespd (Nov 2, 2004)

View attachment 272616
There are so many possibilities that your mind might get boggled!! Here's one more to help add clarity to your decision. I recently built up a Colnago Master x-Light and am thrilled with the outcome and ride. I went Campagnolo Athena 11 speed because I too did not want carbon fiber on this bike. 
Whatever you do, enjoy the experience and then the ride. Happy New Year


----------



## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

my thought with driving distance was to interact with any builder. Going custom was more about getting the right lugs, color, etc, not as much about geometry. I have been riding and tweaking my fit a long time and I have had no problem getting the fit I need on stock sizes. How did you find out about this builder?


----------



## PSC (Mar 10, 2004)

I now live in Seattle, but grew up in the Tri-State area. My vote would be for Tom Kellog(Spectum cyles). Growing up racing there in the early 80's, his frames were top notch, and his ability to fit you to a frame is second to none. I have seriously considered going back East to "the Barn" and have him fit me up for a frame. With this type of purchase don't worry about how long it will take to get, as it is a once in a lifetime purchase(unless it's a Sach with a 7 year wait). Good luck and I do envy you.


----------



## Fred 853 (Jul 25, 2012)

They say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but some people have to be blind to paint over gorgeous stainless steel lugwork.

In case you were interested in how I found out about Tom Oswald, it was through seeing some pictures of his bikes being shown at the North American Handmade Bicycle Show: 
CC Bicycle Gallery: Paul Germain's Oswald Sport Tourer
www.cyclingnews.com - the world centre of cycling
www.cyclingnews.com - the world centre of cycling
www.cyclingnews.com - the world centre of cycling
www.cyclingnews.com - the world centre of cycling
I later checked out his web site and liked the looks of his bike frames.

Also, in regard to Waterford lugs - www.cyclingnews.com - the world centre of cycling


----------



## suhacycles (Jan 1, 2010)

Check out Engin Cycles in Philly or Bishop Bikes in Baltimore... nice stuff...


----------



## Fred 853 (Jul 25, 2012)

You may want to consider some other Italian builders - Cinelli, De Rosa, and Tommasini:

Cinelli Supercorsa 
https://www.cinelli.it/site/index.p...b=3&product_id=174&flypage=cinelliflypage.tpl
(All of the colors and sizes shown on the Cinelli web site can be ordered through a local Cinelli dealer working with the North American distributor.)
Tailwind Bicycles - Schwenksville PA - Cannondale - Scott - Jamis - Redline - Torker Cinelli dealer in Schwenksville, PA








De Rosa Nuovo Classico
::: De Rosa ::: NUOVO CLASSICO
DeRosa De Rosa dealer in Lancaster, PA








Tommasini Sintesi
Steel frame sintesi TOMMASINI bikes
Tommasini Tommasini dealer in Lancaster, PA








Or a classic English custom builder - Mercian:
Mercian Cycles - Custom Cycle Frames & Cycle Shop
I bought a custom frame from Mercian last year, and pictures of my green bike can be seen on my Flickr page at Flickr: Fred 853's Photostream


----------



## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

rider9 said:


> Athena has Ultrashift. I just ordered an Athena group.


Nope, not since 2011. The newer Athena has PowerShift, not UltraShift. 

Groupsets - ATHENA - Campagnolo - The official Campagnolo web site - Bicycle Parts and Components Cycling
http://www.campagnolo.com/repository/documenti/en/Compatibility_table.pdf

That said, many have reported success running UltraShift shifters with Athena PowerShift RD.


----------



## Gerald Chan (Dec 16, 2012)

Look up kbedfordcustoms.com/ he was formerly the lead framebuilder at Serotta for 20 years. He builds custom frames in Ti, steel, both lugged and TIG air-hardeded and in mixed Ti/CF. 
His wait time is approx 8 wks. 
You should also look up the NAHBS at 2013.handmadebicycleshow.com/ for all the guys working in my favorite bicycle frame material. 
Good luck!


----------



## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

*Waterford*



Fred 853 said:


> Waterford will build you a frame with custom geometry, and the company has some beautiful polished stainless steel lugs available.
> See Neuvo-Coco Custom Lugs


I own 2 Waterfords, both purchased used. They are an excellent deal used. But if you want new they're all hand made and just as good as any custom maker. Actually some really good builders got their start there. Turn around is quick, months or less.


----------



## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

orange_julius said:


> Nope, not since 2011. The newer Athena has PowerShift, not UltraShift.
> 
> Groupsets - ATHENA - Campagnolo - The official Campagnolo web site - Bicycle Parts and Components Cycling
> http://www.campagnolo.com/repository/documenti/en/Compatibility_table.pdf
> ...


Not counting the multiple shifts, is the Ultra Shift really better than Power Shift?


----------



## Special Eyes (Feb 2, 2011)

Among the finest USA builders of frames, not to mention components, Chris King:

Cielo Cycles


----------



## GGW (Jul 13, 2008)

Cant go wrong with Hampsten

Hampsten Cycles


----------



## Eisentraut (Sep 18, 2008)

Home - Ellis Cycles: custom hand built bicycles & racks


----------



## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

The 953 frame is really nice but I had heart palpitations when I saw the price


----------



## Dereck (Jan 31, 2005)

Sorry, can't resist. If you want lugs, Hetchins in England have been out-doing everyone else when it comes to lugs since forever. Historic Hetchins, classic bicycles, vintage bicycles, collectors bicycles 
Unfortunately, they are handled in the US by 'World Class Cycles', which is up around some little town called 'New York' - where they are built is a little trip away.

The attached pictures were taken at 'Bob Jackson Cycles', also handled by World Class Cycles. BJ have been producing lugged steel frames since just after WW2 and for a while, had Hetchins' frame builders working for them after Alf Hetchins passed away. Hence they also have a very nice custom lugged frame side. I have a Bob Jackson, around six years old now, and it is a superb build and ride - though nowhere near as fast as the one I had in 1973, for some unknown reason.


----------



## jr59 (Mar 30, 2011)

Eisentraut said:


> Home - Ellis Cycles: custom hand built bicycles & racks


+1
Give Dave Wages a call. Very nice guy, who builds GREAT bikes!


----------



## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

jr59 said:


> +1
> Give Dave Wages a call. Very nice guy, who builds GREAT bikes!


+2

Dave Wages at Ellis Cycles.


----------



## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

Lots of great suggestions here. There really is a Renaissance of custom steel builders in the USA (we actualy have more than the rest of the world combined.)

Here in SoCal we have guys like Greg Townsend and David Ybarolla. Russ Denny has picked up where Dave Moulton left off the early '90's.

But I'm kind of with Scooper. A custom lugged frame from Waterford (no tig for me) would be stellar.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

You have a huge selection from which to choose from. Be careful selecting, some manufactures are not exclusive builders; Waterford is a team and no one person signs on it saying they built it like Anderson and others. Those built by well known individuals with their name on the bike will maintain it's value better, like an artist signing a painting; exception to that might be the Italian makers. There is nothing wrong with the others though.


----------



## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

froze said:


> Waterford is a team and no one person signs on it saying they built it like Anderson and others.


Partly correct. Dave Wages built my Waterford as indicated by "DW" stamped into the BB shell.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Scooper said:


> Partly correct. Dave Wages built my Waterford as indicated by "DW" stamped into the BB shell.


That's cool except it doesn't do a darn thing for the value of the bike. Now had it been painted with Dave Wages name decal'd on and a Waterford stamp instead, and Dave Wages was a renown builder, then that would be good.


----------



## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

froze said:


> That's cool except it doesn't do a darn thing for the value of the bike. Now had it been painted with Dave Wages name decal'd on and a Waterford stamp instead, and *Dave Wages was a renown builder*, then that would be good.


Uh, OK.

Home - Ellis Cycles: custom hand built bicycles & racks

2009 NAHBS "Best Lugged Bike" Award
2010 NAHBS "Best of Show" Award
2011 NAHBS "Best Road Frame" Award
2012 "Best Steel Frame" Award

As far as value is concerned, the market determines that. I don't care what its value is, though, since I have no intention of ever selling it. It's priceless to me.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Scooper said:


> Uh, OK.
> 
> Home - Ellis Cycles: custom hand built bicycles & racks
> 
> ...


No way am I, or was I suggesting that Waterford is a subpar bike. But you and I both know that if you had bought an Ellis at the same time you bought the Waterford you could sell the Ellis today for more money. This is not to say one is better then the other, it's just to say Ellis has a more of a name in the custom world then Waterford. 

It's a lot like owning a Rivendell bike vs owning a Atlantis, both are great bikes, even Grant will tell you that the Atlantis is 98% of the bike that the Rivendell is, but the Rivendell will hold a higher value at resale time then the Atlantis...but of course the Atlantis, or the Waterford, will hold their values better then at least 99% of the bikes sold in most LBS's!! I know where I live Atlantis and Waterford will hold their value over all the bikes sold in any of the LBS in my town.


----------



## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

froze said:


> No way am I, or was I suggesting that Waterford is a subpar bike. But you and I both know that if you had bought an Ellis at the same time you bought the Waterford you could sell the Ellis today for more money. This is not to say one is better then the other, it's just to say Ellis has a more of a name in the custom world then Waterford.
> 
> It's a lot like owning a Rivendell bike vs owning a Atlantis, both are great bikes, even Grant will tell you that the Atlantis is 98% of the bike that the Rivendell is, but the Rivendell will hold a higher value at resale time then the Atlantis...but of course the Atlantis, or the Waterford, will hold their values better then at least 99% of the bikes sold in most LBS's!! I know where I live Atlantis and Waterford will hold their value over all the bikes sold in any of the LBS in my town.


OK, I get your point now.

Problem is, when I bought the Waterford in 2007 Ellis Cycles wasn't even a gleam in Dave Wages' eye.


----------



## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

froze said:


> No way am I, or was I suggesting that Waterford is a subpar bike. But you and I both know that if you had bought an Ellis at the same time you bought the Waterford you could sell the Ellis today for more money. This is not to say one is better then the other, it's just to say Ellis has a more of a name in the custom world then Waterford.
> 
> It's a lot like owning a Rivendell bike vs owning a Atlantis, both are great bikes, even Grant will tell you that the Atlantis is 98% of the bike that the Rivendell is, but the Rivendell will hold a higher value at resale time then the Atlantis...but of course the Atlantis, or the Waterford, will hold their values better then at least 99% of the bikes sold in most LBS's!! I know where I live Atlantis and Waterford will hold their value over all the bikes sold in any of the LBS in my town.


Doesn't Waterford make Rivendells now? At least they said they did on their website.


----------



## lbkwak (Feb 22, 2012)

Columbine Cycle Works

EDIT: You need to fly to CA tho.


----------



## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Does anyone really consider future resale value when they buy a bike?


----------



## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

Camilo said:


> Does anyone really consider future resale value when they buy a bike?


Not I.


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Camilo said:


> Does anyone really consider future resale value when they buy a bike?


Shux, I wouldn't buy a bike if I thought that I was gonna sell it.


----------



## lnbright (Nov 26, 2011)

Why not a Rivendell? I have a Rambouillet and a Bombadil, a great pair that compliment each other. 

Look at the A Homer Hilsen, or perhaps the Roadeo. 
The main Riv page is at rivbike .


----------



## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

I don't think anyone has mentioned Cyfac yet. I recently purchased a steel frame from them (with a CF fork, but that was my choice). And it's absolutely phenomenal. Great power transfer, handles exactly like I wanted. 

When I was talking with my dealer about it, a day later I received a call from the owner of Cyfac. Eric and I talked for quite a long time about what I was looking for and he was very confident they could deliver. He also told me about their very strong dip-tank anti-corrosion treatment. He said it's stronger than the paint and will last the lifetime of the frame. That was key for me as the bike gets ridden in the wet.

I'm thrilled with the bike.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

lbkwak said:


> Columbine Cycle Works
> 
> EDIT: You need to fly to CA tho.


Beautiful as those lugs are, their too feminine for my taste.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Camilo said:


> Does anyone really consider future resale value when they buy a bike?


I do. I never know when I might want to sell a bike, and if I do it's nice to have something worth a little bit more then a Walmart bike. So brands and component choice is important if you want to resell it later...at least for me even though I've never sold a bike except for one to a friend who just had to have it and I didn't really like the bike all that much.


----------



## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

why would anyone sell a bike? That just means you have less bikes.


----------



## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

Very nice. Almost too nice to ride. The first time you get a scratch must be a trying experience. Are each of those stars and such brazed on individually?


----------



## lbkwak (Feb 22, 2012)

Camilo said:


> Does anyone really consider future resale value when they buy a bike?


----------



## lbkwak (Feb 22, 2012)

DaveG said:


> Very nice. Almost too nice to ride. The first time you get a scratch must be a trying experience. Are each of those stars and such brazed on individually?


Correct.


----------



## BikesOfALesserGod (Jul 22, 2012)

DaveG said:


> I have come into a little bit of money and am considering a custom steel frame. I want a lugged steel frame and steel fork. Something that reflects craftsmanship and is as much art as it is functional. I am thinking fancy lugs, perhaps chromed or stainless. I am a 50 year old recreational rider so performance is not my top concern. I’d prefer something compliant with predictable, stable handling. I am not concerned about weight. I would probably build it up with Athena or Chorus and as many non-carbon parts as possible. I am looking for suggestions of a builder that is within driving distance and has experience with making great frames like I described. I am about 10 miles east of Philadelphia. I am also not opposed to a steel “off the rack” frame that meets the criteria. Thanks for any suggestions


Off the shelf: Torelli. It won't be as pretty as a custom but the price reflects that. Another one is Bianchi but with the caveat that it can only be in Celeste green.

Custom: Waterford. Big enough to still be around should you need services a few years from now while small enough to still have the boutique cred.


----------



## jr59 (Mar 30, 2011)

Scooper said:


> OK, I get your point now.
> 
> Problem is, when I bought the Waterford in 2007 Ellis Cycles wasn't even a gleam in Dave Wages' eye.


Not so fast my friend.
Ellis cycle was started in early 2008.

Your Waterford built by Dave Wages, was working for John Sotherland at the time.

You know, just to be correct and all!


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I don't think Torelli makes their steel lugged bikes anymore, I couldn't find it on their website, but there is another fine Italian bike called the Tommasini makes a couple of beautiful lugged frames called the Sintesi and the Tecno which is their top of the line. These have been raved about for a long time but lately their prices have gone way up to $2500 range for frame and fork; see: Tommasini USA

There's the Cinelli SuperCorsa still in production but cost about the same as the Tommasini, see: Cinelli Bicycles USA

Also don't overlook Mercian, I have one and absolutely love it. You can get a Mercian for less then the Tommasini and be every bit as good, maybe better, plus you can customize it just about anyway you want it, their very old school in their methods too which is really cool; see: Mercian Cycles - Custom Cycle Frames & Cycle Shop

Which brings me to Shamrock Cycles, a very well made bicycle made right here in America in Indiana, they too will do whatever you want and would probably cost less then the Mercian; see: hand built frames from the mountains of Indiana I've visited that Shamrock shop and they truly are legit and very nice people, they will listen to you and make and and paint your bike anyway you want without judging you for it.


----------



## BikesOfALesserGod (Jul 22, 2012)

lbkwak said:


> Columbine Cycle Works
> 
> EDIT: You need to fly to CA tho.


It would require me to sell a couple of very desirable antique revolvers, but it will be oh so worth it!


----------



## Europa (Jan 19, 2013)

Thats a really nice frame work, I love details around headset. I would prefer painted rear end tho rather tnan all crome, lugs only are ok in crome. Just my taste.


----------



## Europa (Jan 19, 2013)

Cinelli works just take my breath away, really artistic craftsmanship.


----------



## Fred 853 (Jul 25, 2012)

froze said:


> I don't think Torelli makes their steel lugged bikes anymore, I couldn't find it on their website, but there is another fine Italian bike called the Tommasini makes a couple of beautiful lugged frames called the Sintesi and the Tecno which is their top of the line. These have been raved about for a long time but lately their prices have gone way up to $2500 range for frame and fork; see: Tommasini USA
> 
> There's the Cinelli SuperCorsa still in production but cost about the same as the Tommasini, see: Cinelli Bicycles USA
> 
> ...


Here are some additional links to modern steel frames including a lugged steel Torelli:

http://www.torelli.com/frames/torelli/steel/delirio.html

Supercorsa (The U.S. distributor for Cinelli normally carries Supercorsa frames in Ferrari Red or Titanium Grey and only in even sizes, but he will special order any of the colors shown on the Italian Cinelli web site in any of the sizes shown, odd or even.)

::: De Rosa ::: NUOVO CLASSICO

Production and sale of Vintage Racing bike - Model San Cristobal - Ciocc

Steel frame sintesi TOMMASINI bikes

Curdomo | PELIZZOLI world

Olmo Closeouts

Master 30th | Colnago

Traditional Italian Steel bike frames from Dromarti

index

light blue-Frames - Light Blue Kings. - Product Information

Condor Classico Frameset | Condor Bikes | Condor Cycles

ZULLO BIKE - Bici da corsa su misura - Bike Factory - Made in ITALY

Construisez votre propre vélo

SF2 - Cicli FONDRIEST - Fondriest bike

Steel Road Bike Frames Made in ITALY!

Masi Bikes - Framesets

http://www.torelli.com/frames/mondonico/steel/spirit.html

Lima | Carrera

CHERUBIM STICKY?PRODUCT?CHERUBIM ?????? ?????

Raleigh Bicycles International Frameset

Stanyan Frame Set | SOMA Fabrications


Also, this web site has a nice comparison of the various brands and alloys of steel used in modern bike frames -
Strong Frames | More Stuff | Tube Descriptions


----------



## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

I actually have a Torelli now, but its a lower end TIGed steel (Zona) frame. I really want something that's a bit more of a piece of art. I understand that will raise the price significantly. Off the shelf something like the De Rosa Nuovo Classico or Tommasini Sintesi might fit the bill


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

*More Choices*

Della Santa custom built frames

DiNucci Cycles

Rene Herse Bicycles

Hampsten Cycles

FUSO Bicycles

Pedersen, The Bentley of Bicycles

Spectrum Cycles | The Perfect Bike Does Not Exist Until We Build it for You.

Lyonsport |


----------



## Fred 853 (Jul 25, 2012)

DaveG said:


> I actually have a Torelli now, but its a lower end TIGed steel (Zona) frame. I really want something that's a bit more of a piece of art. I understand that will raise the price significantly. Off the shelf something like the De Rosa Nuovo Classico or Tommasini Sintesi might fit the bill


The De Rosa Nuovo Classico is a great frame ( ::: De Rosa ::: NUOVO CLASSICO )-








London Green









Cherry (Made for Japanese market, but I have heard that De Rosa will make a Nuovo Classico in any color that they are currently using. Here is the link to the Japanese De Rosa site - DE ROSA | ???? ????????? )


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Fred 853 said:


> The De Rosa Nuovo Classico is a great frame -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Could you please post a larger picture, I'm having trouble seeing the green Nuovo Classico.


----------



## Fred 853 (Jul 25, 2012)

The picture that I originally used was too small. Then I used a copy of the same picture that may have been too large. Please let me know if it still does not look right, and I will try again.

Also, if a little fancier lugwork is desired, as mentioned previously by Froze, Mercian would be a good choice. They have a model called the Vincitore Special with classic ornate lugs ( Vincitore & Vincitore Special Frames shipped to the U.S. do not have to pay the Value Added Tax - VAT) -










Any color combination can be had from the following color chart, and Mercian will (obviously) be happy to do special color schemes - 










And, parts can be chromed as desired, and the fork can be threaded or unthreaded.


Lovely Bicycle Blog about Mercian Vincitore - Lovely Bicycle!: Mercian Vincitore: First Impressions


----------



## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

jr59 said:


> Not so fast my friend.
> Ellis cycle was started in early 2008.
> 
> Your Waterford built by Dave Wages, was working for John Sotherland at the time.
> ...


You're really confusing me. The serial number of my bike is B07014, February 2007, and Dave described the TIG fabrication process of the seat stay treatment at the seat lug on my bike in an email to me. Was John Sotherland working at Waterford?



Dave Wages said:


> Stan,
> 
> I'm glad to hear you're enjoying the bike and that it's getting so much nice attention! That one was truly a one of a kind build. I don't remember exactly why we did this; normally on the full stainless bikes, the stays are brazed on "sidetack" style and it's much simpler. What I did was fully set up the bike in the fixture and miter the seat stays to fit against the seat lug. One of the welders then tacked the stays carefully onto the seat lug. Once they cooled down, I took the unbrazed tubes out of the fixture, the stays still tacked to the seat lug and Sean, the welder, finished fully welding them to the lug. I then ground all the excess weld that had penetrated the lug, finished the welds, and then prepped the lug for brazing. Back to the fixture and everything gets reset, fluxed and tacked. I brazed the frame, did all the finishing, alignment and then it's off to the polisher for the final buff. So, to answer your question, the stays are TIG welded to the lug, but then all the other parts are silver brazed on your frame. If we had silver brazed the stays onto the lug, what ends up happening is the silver gets undercut during the polishing process and then it can discolor over time. Really not a nice look, and possibly not as strong either.
> 
> ...


----------



## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

JoelS said:


> I don't think anyone has mentioned Cyfac yet. I recently purchased a steel frame from them (with a CF fork, but that was my choice). And it's absolutely phenomenal. Great power transfer, handles exactly like I wanted.
> 
> When I was talking with my dealer about it, a day later I received a call from the owner of Cyfac. Eric and I talked for quite a long time about what I was looking for and he was very confident they could deliver. He also told me about their very strong dip-tank anti-corrosion treatment. He said it's stronger than the paint and will last the lifetime of the frame. That was key for me as the bike gets ridden in the wet.
> 
> I'm thrilled with the bike.


I'm very happy with my Zona Cyfac. Custom geometry, custom paint, what not to like? 

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bikes-frames-forks/cyfac-classiques-special-steel-266479.html

View attachment 274252
View attachment 274253


----------



## neilthomas210 (Jan 23, 2013)

Waterford makes a great steel frame bike. Good luck in your search.


----------



## insignante (Mar 19, 2012)

Hi DaveG,

My name is George and I have a beautiful brand new (never been ridden) steel frame Italian bike called a "Chesini" You can see more at my company’s website at scappaviabicycles.com - Home 

Check out a picture of the Scappavia Road Bike and its components on my website scappaviabicycles.com - Home 

For Sale by Scappavia Bicycles Inc.
Chesini - Scappavia


Bike Price $2,642.50
Specifications
•	Frame: Columbus Tubes CROMOR, asymmetric reinforced tubes for competition frame, double butted and ovalized. Chromed Junctions 
•	Fork: Columbus Tubes.
•	Groupsets: Campagnolo Veloce 10 speeds
•	Cranksets: MICHE Sporting Doppia
•	Brakes: MICHE Performance
•	Wheels: Gipiemme
•	Handlebar: DEDA RHM01
•	Seatpost: DEDA 01
•	Stem: DEDA 01
•	Saddle: Arte Selle
•	Tire: Michelin

insignante


----------



## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

If you are locked into something within driving distance, 

- Spectrum (outside trexeltown, PA). Tom Kellogg may be one of the best fitters, bike designers and painters in the business. Does lugged steel & TI. Check out his website. Great guy too. http://spectrum-cycles.com/

- Belinkey. In Philly. Been in business for years, great guy and an artisan http://www.bilenky.com/Home.html

If you know your fit well, then the possibilities open up dramatically. I'd consider:

- Dave Kirk. Kirk cycles Bozeman Montana. I have a custom fillet brazed Kirk terra plane Fixie. He also does beautiful lugs. Check his website. Great guy to work with. http://www.kirkframeworks.com/

- Shamrock. Indianapolis. Beautiful work, IMO. http://www.lugoftheirish.com/Shamrock_Cycles/Home.html

-Llewylyn. He is on Australia. His work is amazing. The small details are incredible. He would be my first choice. http://www.llewellynbikes.com/

Zancanota cycles. Sutton, MA Awesome. http://www.zanconato.com/index.html

Beyond that check out Richard Sach's website, he has a great list of emerging builders. http://www.richardsachs.com/site/the-next-wave/

( BTW, I've done Two custom Steel (Kirk & Sachs) as well as a custom TI, Serotta) 

Maybe spend money on a plane ticket this weekend, fly out to the NAHBS in Denver this weekend. More great builders in one place than anywhere else. http://2013.handmadebicycleshow.com/2013-nahbs/info/

Len


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 8, 2013)

How about a Fondriest SF2? SF2 - Cicli FONDRIEST - Fondriest bike


----------



## DarylB (Apr 19, 2007)

Everyone is going to have their bias when it comes to who makes the best frames. All of those mentioned in this thread would be good choices. I do think you are limiting yourself too much with geography though. I understand the desire for the interaction with the builder but technology has made it possible to interact quite well with them no matter where they are.

My suggestion would be to look through the web sites and look at their bikes. There will be some that you keep going back to. Read the "about us" sections. Get a feel for who the builder is. Once you have a short list, call them. Have a conversation. Then go with the one you got the best feeling from. 

Personally, if I could afford to do a custom, it would be with Carl Strong. If I could afford two I'd get one from Dave Kirk too. For what you are looking for, I would strongly suggest you look into Kirk. Great builder and a great reputation for being great to work with.

Just some thoughts.


----------



## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

If you're into the "newer generation" of steel bike, both in terms of material and geometry, take a look at the Cinelli XCR (stainless xcr steel is the latest from Columbus).

I would classify the Cinelli XCR as the "new school" steel bike, and this will definitely be my next purchase no question about it.


----------



## jr59 (Mar 30, 2011)

Scooper said:


> You're really confusing me. The serial number of my bike is B07014, February 2007, and Dave described the TIG fabrication process of the seat stay treatment at the seat lug on my bike in an email to me. Was John Sotherland working at Waterford?


Sorry for the delay in my responce, but the answer is yes. In fact Sotherland was Dave's boss and boss of waterford at that time!


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I actually went and visited the Shamrock shop, and those people are very nice, highly knowledgeable, and extremely artistic. I think they currently offer the best deal going for a very high quality custom steel bike, and they'll do anything you want to do on your bike without criticizing you for wanting to do it or say they won't do it because it's "their" bike's reputation on the line. They have several different style of lugs they use too including the Richard Sachs French style lugs.


----------



## rgordin (Oct 22, 2010)

froze said:


> I actually went and visited the Shamrock shop, and those people are very nice, highly knowledgeable, and extremely artistic. I think they currently offer the best deal going for a very high quality custom steel bike, and they'll do anything you want to do on your bike without criticizing you for wanting to do it or say they won't do it because it's "their" bike's reputation on the line. They have several different style of lugs they use too including the Richard Sachs French style lugs.


I've looked at their site before. Based on the reviews, and the photos on the site, Shamrock looks like a company that should be on your short list.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

rgordin said:


> I've looked at their site before. Based on the reviews, and the photos on the site, Shamrock looks like a company that should be on your short list.


Most definitely. If I was in the market for custom bike that would be the only place I would consider...mostly because their only 2 hours away from my house! But also because their prices are the lowest I've found for custom lugged steel bikes. But I had my thrill with a custom bike when I got my Mercian Vincitore Special about 6 years ago, and personally see no reason to get another one. But had Shamrock been around back then I probably would have gone there.

Tim O'Donnell builds and paints the bikes, and he does a really nice job. His lug and fillet work are both outstanding as his detail to paint and graphics. And he's the nicest and most down to earth guy you'll ever meet if you get the chance.


----------



## bicyclenetcn (Feb 21, 2013)

you can try purchase by ebay. have more affordable frames.


----------



## hrdkorsocerplyr (Feb 27, 2013)

Not sure if this was mentioned before, but there is also Co-Motion out of Oregon that builds single and tandem custom steel bikes.


----------

