# Looking to get my first "real" bike



## Wyldfyre911 (Jul 28, 2015)

I have been looking at 3 different options for bikes. Please help!

Choice 1: 
Kestrel Evoke 3.0 Carbon Road Bikes 
Full Shimano 105 5800 22 Speed

Choice 2: Interval Carbon Elite

Choice 3: 2015 Wilier GTS (Red/Black) with 11-speed Ultegra 

I am looking for more of an endurance bike. I get 40% off of Diamondback and 30% off Wilier prices through work

Please let me know if anyone needs extra info.


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## Shuffleman (Sep 4, 2013)

Your choices:
Kestrel Evoke
DB Interval Carbon Elite
Wilier GTS

These are some interesting choices. They are all good bikes but I am not sure what the DB is doing in there with the Evoke or GTS as it is a flat bar road bike.
The Wilier and the Evoke are similar in that they are more of a race oriented geometry. This begs to question:
What is your intended use? Style of riding? These are pretty important things for us to know in order to assist you better. Have you ridden any of them yet? If you have ridden the Evoke and the Wilier and like them both than I personally would go with the Wilier. That is a gorgeous bike. I have no experience with that Kestrel but I have some with the GTS. It is a great bike.
Can you also get discounts on the Izoard? You may want to look at that and the GTS. The Izoard has more of an endurance geometry. It may be good to compare and contrast the 2.


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## obed (Jan 12, 2014)

just out of curiosity,what makes you think you want more of an endurance geometry?
nothing wrong with that at all, I love my Domane. It is just that I know folks who thought that is what they wanted from reading reviews and folks on line, but when they actually test rode them, they chose something else...
I would suggest actually riding a few and get the one that actually feels best to you... and get a fit.


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## Wyldfyre911 (Jul 28, 2015)

Shuffleman said:


> Your choices:
> Kestrel Evoke
> DB Interval Carbon Elite
> Wilier GTS
> ...


Well I am 6' and about 217 (still working on losing more weight)
I use a bike now that has flat handlebars with bar ends. I enjoy hilly courses with just pavement. Regretfully in Green Bay WI there is limited options when it comes to local dealers. The closest thing I was able to ride was a Specialized bike (no discounts). As far as discounts go its just Wilier and DB. 

Thank you so much for your help!!


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## Wyldfyre911 (Jul 28, 2015)

Well I am hoping to get a bike that further distance with good hill (pavement) climbing ability. 

Side note - Is it typical from going to the flat handle to the under/curved handle (not sure what they are called) to be twitchy or real sensitive to movement because of the closer proximity to the center of the bike?


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

Wyldfyre911 said:


> II get 40% off of Diamondback and 30% off Wilier prices through work.



40% off on wilier and DB? DB Podium VITESSE is pretty good. Bike retails over $4k.

In any case. Using the 40% off as leverage.... You have tons of options. Pending your budget.


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## Wyldfyre911 (Jul 28, 2015)

Well 40% on DB and 30% On Wilier. My actual budget is about $1200


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

Wyldfyre911 said:


> Well 40% on DB and 30% On Wilier. My actual budget is about $1200


this is how I see it... Cycling as a hobby can be super expensive. Using myself as an example, I've made tons of mistakes when I first got into the hobby. I ended up having/selling 3 bicycles, before keeping something I was "happy" with (because we all know, year after year... Something better will be out. And also keeping up with the Jones').

Think long and hard with the type of "riding" you will get yourself into. Whether it be cruising around the block on a weekly basis, or riding 30+ miles with climbs and etc... That will all dictate what type of bicycle you will end up buying. Not to mention the other complicated things, such as groupsets and etc.

When I got into the hobby... I didn't think nor did I have the luxury of having someone teach me the little things of "cycling". I ended up buy a "bike" that i thought would work... It did. But only for me to out grow it 6 months later. It happened to me 3 times total. I bought bikes that didn't fit my regiment.... and ended up selling them (for a loss) so i can finally have a bike that fits my "needs".

I guess what I am trying to say is... Think long and hard with your goals and objectives. Buy once and even spend a little more than your budget allows that fit your goals...

Otherwise, like myself, you could potentially lose out of a decent amount of money by buying bikes that dont fit your needs....

If i had known earlier... I would have gone all in with my first bike... Buy a higher end bike with everything that i wanted (from factory) and call it a day... Instead, it was trial and error... i wasted more money than I really should have...


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## Wyldfyre911 (Jul 28, 2015)

Thank you so much for the insight! You are saying what I am trying to avoid... Trying to make the most educated decision I can... 

I really would like to trim my weight down to goal and then start to enter in local small races to see how I can match in. Though my favorite type of riding is the longer rides with some nice hills to power though 

So without a website that rates all the different brands and bikes equally out there Im trying the best I can to pick the brains of those (you) I can. Again I really appreciate all your thoughts and time regarding this matter.


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

Wyldfyre911 said:


> Thank you so much for the insight! You are saying what I am trying to avoid... Trying to make the most educated decision I can...
> 
> I really would like to trim my weight down to goal and then start to enter in local small races to see how I can match in. Though my favorite type of riding is the longer rides with some nice hills to power though
> 
> So without a website that rates all the different brands and bikes equally out there Im trying the best I can to pick the brains of those (you) I can. Again I really appreciate all your thoughts and time regarding this matter.


No problem. I am (we're) here to help. If you have any questions, shoot away and I will try to help to the best that i can.

I am pretty familiar with DiamondBack. I actually had a few growing up (BMX) and I actually had one of their road bikes (Podium 1). 

When i had gotten into Road Bikes, I actually picked up DB's Podium 1. It did the job. It was a aluminum frame with a CF fork. Running entry level shimano sora stuff. It totally did the job, until i started riding with my tri athlete friends... That's when I knew i had to get something better (component-wise)... The sora just wouldn't do it when I hit the climbs. I didn't have enough, or shall i say, right amount of gears/ratios to the job done...

At 6" @ 217... You could go with a carbon frame. You're "light" enough for it. Is it mandatory for you to splurge on it? probably not. But its there if you like.

Since i ride a Specialized Tarmac... I am going to compare your scenario with what I am familiar with.

With your budget and mindset... I recommend you get the Specialized Allez Comp model. It's aluminum frame with carbon forks. Runs mostly Shimano 105s. Which is a pretty good all around groupset. And can be had for around $1600...

The frame is strong and light enough to support your weight and etc.. Also can take a beating... Unlike Carbon... Carbon is pretty fragile.... Not saying its cheaply made or it will break... But its a little more delicate than aluminum...

Either way... If you were to ask me... I'd start with a frame of your liking, whether its carbon or Aluminum... then go to the groupset... if youre going to choose Shimano stuff... I'd start at the 105's and go from there...

If you like SRAM, start at Riva.l its comparable with Apex... But a few grams lighter.... 

for under $2000.... you can have a really good aluminum bike... And also not really having to worry about upgrading in the near future.


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## Shuffleman (Sep 4, 2013)

Wyldfyre911 said:


> Well I am hoping to get a bike that further distance with good hill (pavement) climbing ability.
> 
> Side note - Is it typical from going to the flat handle to the under/curved handle (not sure what they are called) to be twitchy or real sensitive to movement because of the closer proximity to the center of the bike?


The steering on a drop bar road bike is going to be more twitchy that on a flat bar road bike. You will get used to that. 


Wyldfyre911 said:


> Well I am 6' and about 217 (still working on losing more weight)
> I use a bike now that has flat handlebars with bar ends. I enjoy hilly courses with just pavement. Regretfully in Green Bay WI there is limited options when it comes to local dealers. The closest thing I was able to ride was a Specialized bike (no discounts). As far as discounts go its just Wilier and DB.
> .
> Thank you so much for your help!!


Those are both good brands. DB is more of a big box store brand and Wilier is more of a Boutique brand. They are both very good bikes though. I love Wilier and think that DB is fine but not my taste.



Wyldfyre911 said:


> Well 40% on DB and 30% On Wilier. My actual budget is about $1200


Can you get a discount on other Wilier and DB's? If so, I would look at the following:
Wilier Izoard--More endurance oriented
Wilier GTS--More Race oriented
DB Podium
DB Century Carbon

These are 4 great bikes that cover both the race and endurance categories. Based on what you have said, I would lean towards recommending the Izoard to you but you really need to sit on each of them and test them out. I have ridden both Wiliers but never ridden the DB's. If you can score one of those for 30% off, you have landed a great bike for a great price.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

If you are looking to enter races you might want to consider a more race oriented geo. They will have you lower and more aero as opposed to a more relaxed geo that will have you sitting up more... In any event, you can race a relaxed bike and ride long and climbing routes with a race oriented bike. 

Aluminum is is not stronger than CF btw. They are different materials, that's all. They both work great for making bike frames and are solid. Al may fatigue eventually. But that's a different thread entirely... If you are interested in mountains of information on frame material and integrity look around the forum... You can't miss it. Look for the threads with like 3,000 replies. LOL. 

Thats is a sweet discount man! I'd be Willier all the way. Find their bike that's right for you and get fitted. Work with LBS on the purchase from the get, they should treat you well. If you can touch your toes without strain you can likely ride a more aggressive geo. I'm pretty flexible and I can't see riding sitting up if you can ride chin closer to bars. Especially if you live somewhere that will throw serious headwinds at you. 

Everyone on on this board tells you to test ride, test ride, test ride... And that great advice. But if you are very new and don't have cycling musculature, saddle time, an idea of how you will use the bike and the like, I don't think it matters as much as working with your LBS to get you onto a bike that will serve your current and longer term interests... I mean, sitting bolt upright might feel great? But if you can bend at the waist and palm the floor why would you want to ride like a sail into the wind? 

Keep us posted and good luck!


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## professionalsql (Apr 5, 2012)

Wyldfyre911 said:


> Side note - Is it typical from going to the flat handle to the under/curved handle (not sure what they are called) to be twitchy or real sensitive to movement because of the closer proximity to the center of the bike?


Yes it is both in terms of where your weight is and the flat bar is usually a bit wider where you're grabbing it (changes leverage). Unless racing, down hilling, or just trying to push it, most non-racers will tend to stay "on the hoods" a fair percentage of the time. This means the hoods of the brakes are generally between your thumb and index finger - particularly until you get more core strength built up. That will still be twitchy vs. a flat bar when you first start, but not as much so as being "on the drops". When your using your drop bars, you'll tend to have more weight at your hands, so slight adjustments tend to get magnified until you learn to adjust.


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## Wyldfyre911 (Jul 28, 2015)

Thank you for the input! That makes sense now that you mention it that way. Also thank you for the terminology  

So when I start using a drop bar bike the more I use it and build skill the easier it will be.


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## Wyldfyre911 (Jul 28, 2015)

Thank you for your insight here. Even though I am heavier 217.. I have Ehlors-Danlos Syndrome which makes me extremely flexible which is why I chose biking. Jogging and running take their toll on my knees. Since I am fairly new to the higher end bike market. I can tell you this. On my current bike I can do 20 miles in about 1.5 hours. Though on my shorter exercise routes I average about 14.5 to 15 mph on my hilly course.


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## professionalsql (Apr 5, 2012)

Wyldfyre911 said:


> So when I start using a drop bar bike the more I use it and build skill the easier it will be.


Exactly. 

You'll rarely want to be in the drops if you're going slow - such as climbing a hill, approaching a stoplight, or just puttering around - you'll sit up a little higher and ride the hoods instead.

Here's a GCN video on bar position. He conveys things pretty well - although, when moving slowly, I disagree with the drops having the most control. They definitely do at higher speeds (such as sprinting or downhilling). Also, note that the aerodynamic factor becomes much less relevant as speed decreases. Given your size, figure you can largely ignore the aero factor below 10-12ish MPH of oncoming airflow (headwind plus your moving speed).


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

Wyldfyre911 said:


> Thank you for your insight here. Even though I am heavier 217.. I have Ehlors-Danlos Syndrome which makes me extremely flexible which is why I chose biking. Jogging and running take their toll on my knees. Since I am fairly new to the higher end bike market. I can tell you this. On my current bike I can do 20 miles in about 1.5 hours. Though on my shorter exercise routes I average about 14.5 to 15 mph on my hilly course.



Like the previous poster had said. Test ride. That is the only way to know what type of bicycle will best suit your needs/fit. Then, sleep on it and let it mellow. Think about your overall goals and what you will want to achieve. 

From there, buy once... Heck, even spend a little more than your budget allows (if possible)! Because if you start with a lower end model, constantly upgrading parts could cost more than buying a bike with all the upgrades pre-installed from factory.

Anymore questions? Let us know!


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Wyldfyre911 said:


> Thank you for your insight here. Even though I am heavier 217.. I have Ehlors-Danlos Syndrome which makes me extremely flexible which is why I chose biking. Jogging and running take their toll on my knees. Since I am fairly new to the higher end bike market. I can tell you this. On my current bike I can do 20 miles in about 1.5 hours. Though on my shorter exercise routes I average about 14.5 to 15 mph on my hilly course.


I'm no expert... Maybe some who are will jump on... But if you have the flexibility I'd go with the more aggressive geometry. Comfort geo is mostly about your lower back. Why sit up if you are equally comfortable lower? Then, if you start to enter races you have the bike for it with no downside on longer rides? And 30% off on a Willier is awesome!

You could get into this with SRAM Force. You will never need a single upgrade forever... 

GTR Team | Wilier Triestina S.p.a


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## Wyldfyre911 (Jul 28, 2015)

Well specifically 

Willier 30% off: 



2015 Wilier Zero9 (Fluo Yellow) with 11-speed Ultegra
2015 Wilier GTS (Red/Black) with 11-speed Ultegra
the Zero 9 is way to much out of my range at this point. The GTS is the one I was checking out.


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## Shuffleman (Sep 4, 2013)

PBL450 said:


> GTR Team | Wilier Triestina S.p.a


The GTR is awesome and the color pattern with that Green and Black is hot. The GTR is not available in the States though. Thus, it is the GTS.


Wyldfyre911 said:


> Well specifically
> 
> Willier 30% off:
> 
> ...


The Zero 9 is a fantastic bike but I did not suggest it as it was out of your stated budget. The Izoard and the GTS seem to be the most likely models for you. Let us know what you end up buying.


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## Wyldfyre911 (Jul 28, 2015)

The hardest part of trying to get these specific bikes is the fact that I have no way to test ride any of them. There isnt a single Wilier dealer in my state 
Should I rule out the flat bar Interval Elite?


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

Wyldfyre911 said:


> The hardest part of trying to get these specific bikes is the fact that I have no way to test ride any of them. There isnt a single Wilier dealer in my state
> Should I rule out the flat bar Interval Elite?


flat bar isn't a bad route to go. If you have a family and kids, its a great bike to cruise around town with. Comfortable and relax geo to keep up with the kids/fam.

But if you're looking to get into the hobby and throw in some racing, road bike with drops will be the way to go... Otherwise... buying a flat bar, guarantee you will end up with a 2nd or 3rd bike.


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## Wyldfyre911 (Jul 28, 2015)

Thanks for the Input Shuffle! I would like the GTS though Im afraid its going to be really stiff and tough for me to get used to. The reason the DB flat bar was in there. Though if what I am reading is true I should just go for the drop bar and suck it up because Ill be going to that eventually anyway.


The other 2 I was considering from DB was the 
Century 3 or Century 5
So... thats the $800 question...

Do I go with the $1800 GTS or
The Century 3/5 for 1k/1.4k respectively...
Is it worth the extra 8/400?

And secondly I guess is the brands that I am looking at decent?
I couldn't find a list of the different brands ranked out from highest quality to lowest.

:mad2:


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

Wyldfyre911 said:


> Thanks for the Input Shuffle! I would like the GTS though Im afraid its going to be really stiff and tough for me to get used to. The reason the DB flat bar was in there. Though if what I am reading is true I should just go for the drop bar and suck it up because Ill be going to that eventually anyway.
> 
> 
> The other 2 I was considering from DB was the
> ...




Not knowing your financial situation, current and future goals.... its hard to tell you which manufacture and "bicycle" to get. 

You're venturing into a hobby that is endless and the sky is the limit. The best we can do is, give you information and for you to buy a bike that fits your current needs/future needs. Hoping that you will not outgrow it in a few months and having to buy a new one... 

Its a money pit. Not to mention, not mandatory but very beneficial... You'll end up want to swap out platform pedals with clipless, shoes, jerseys, bibs, bottles, cages, computers, wheels, and countless other accessories..

You'll be investing a small fortune once you're all said and done... Heck, who am I lying to? You're never "done". You'll be always tinkering with your ride... To build it to your "perfect" specs....


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## Wyldfyre911 (Jul 28, 2015)

So I am discovering!


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

so yes. Sleep on it. Figure out what your options are and go on from there.

DiamondBack is a good company. Especially with their Podium (road bike) stuff. Just a thought.. Since its probably easier for you to test ride it.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Wyldfyre911 said:


> The hardest part of trying to get these specific bikes is the fact that I have no way to test ride any of them. There isnt a single Wilier dealer in my state
> Should I rule out the flat bar Interval Elite?


Maybe I'm just 'particular', but IME I've NOT liked more bikes I've test ridden than I liked, so I suggest crossing any that can't be ridden off your list. 

With or without experience, you'll like riding some bikes more than others, for whatever reason. And this points up the importance of working with a reputable LBS. They listen to you like we are, guide you to some good choices (based on your input), fit you and send you off on test rides. 

Just make sure those test rides are out on the roads, and of some duration. Ideally, test ride on roads you'll ride. Then you'll know if gearing has to be changed to better suite your fitness/ terrain.

Lastly, don't fret over brands or some level of component. There are a bunch of quality bikes out there.. comparably priced. Just remember, a LBS's service/ support is worth a fair amount, with post purchase tweaks to fit, tuneups, discounts on accessories (helmets, pedals, shoes...) so, something to keep in mind.


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## Shuffleman (Sep 4, 2013)

Wyldfyre911 said:


> Thanks for the Input Shuffle! I would like the GTS though Im afraid its going to be really stiff and tough for me to get used to. The reason the DB flat bar was in there. Though if what I am reading is true I should just go for the drop bar and suck it up because Ill be going to that eventually anyway.
> 
> 
> The other 2 I was considering from DB was the
> ...


Lots to handle there. I would not go with the drop bar if you have any intention of riding for long periods of time. 
As a new rider who really does not know what type of riding they will like or style of bike they prefer, I would highly recommend the Century 3 over the Century 5 if you choose to go with DB.
If you choose to go with Wilier, than I would go with the Izoard XP 105.
My main choice would be the Izoard if you can get that with your discount. Make sure that you check on your sizing before ordering. I would think that a L would be fine for you as you are 6' tall. I am 6'02 and was sized by a LBS here for the XL. 
Once you decide between the Wilier and the DB I would recommend going to a LBS and introducing yourself. Tell them what you are buying and why. Pay them $50-$75 for a fitting up front so that they know you are serious. They should check the geometry chart out and advise the size and then when you get the bike take it to them for the final fitting. It will be money very well spent.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Shuffleman said:


> Lots to handle there. I would not go with the drop bar if you have any intention of riding for long periods of time.
> As a new rider who really does not know what type of riding they will like or style of bike they prefer, I would highly recommend the Century 3 over the Century 5 if you choose to go with DB.
> If you choose to go with Wilier, than I would go with the Izoard XP 105.
> My main choice would be the Izoard if you can get that with your discount. Make sure that you check on your sizing before ordering. I would think that a L would be fine for you as you are 6' tall. I am 6'02 and was sized by a LBS here for the XL.
> Once you decide between the Wilier and the DB I would recommend going to a LBS and introducing yourself. Tell them what you are buying and why. Pay them $50-$75 for a fitting up front so that they know you are serious. They should check the geometry chart out and advise the size and then when you get the bike take it to them for the final fitting. It will be money very well spent.


^^^This. Shuffleman may have made a typo though? I think, and maybe I'm wrong, he meant go WITH the drop bar bike? Flat bar gives you less options for hand positions which matters a lot on long rides. Plus, the drops are a great place to be in a head wind! Especially on your aggressive geo bike with your flexible self. If you go to a good LBS and tell them about this discount and be clear that you want a fit, maybe some gear, assembly... They will be cool. And you will need them. 

_*"I would not go with the drop bar if you have any intention of riding for long periods of time."


*_


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## professionalsql (Apr 5, 2012)

I have to agree with PBL on this - if you're going to be riding for longer periods of time (several hours), then you will want the drop bar bike for the flexibility in position. Flat bars are great - even for hours - if you're going to be puttering. If you want to cover ground, then you'll want the ability to shift positions to match the terrain, and the best bike for that is a "road bike" (i.e., drop bar).


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

PJ352 said:


> Maybe I'm just 'particular', but IME I've NOT liked more bikes I've test ridden than I liked, so I suggest crossing any that can't be ridden off your list.
> 
> With or without experience, you'll like riding some bikes more than others, for whatever reason. And this points up the importance of working with a reputable LBS. They listen to you like we are, guide you to some good choices (based on your input), fit you and send you off on test rides.
> 
> ...


^^^Good stuff here too! Up front savings may not be worth it compared to the long term return of buying local. 

i struggle to understand the importance of the test ride... I'm not contradicting it, people say it over and over so it must be true. I bought two bikes on CL and they both fit great with a pro fitting. I mean, can't most bikes be set up to fit most any rider that is the the right size range overall? Do frames really perform drastically differently? That's what your buying when you say a bike right? Can a newb even tell?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

PBL450 said:


> i struggle to understand the importance of the test ride... I'm not contradicting it, people say it over and over so it must be true.


Maybe it's true for those saying it (like me) and not true for you. Everyone's different.



PBL450 said:


> I bought two bikes on CL and they both fit great with a pro fitting. I mean, can't most bikes be set up to fit most any rider that is the the right size range overall?


If a bike is sized correctly for a given rider, yes, the fitting will go well. Depending on how far off sizing strays, the fitting may or may not go so well. Stray far enough on sizing, and the fitter will get into *making* the bike fit, but f/r weight distribution may well be off, and that can adversely affect handling. 



PBL450 said:


> Do frames really perform drastically differently? That's what your buying when you say a bike right? Can a newb even tell?


Go ride a touring bike and a race bike back to back, and let us know if you could tell a difference in handling. They're both bikes, but pretty different types. 

And yes, I understand that my example illustrates bigger differences in geo than the OP is contemplating, but there's more to this than frames and geo... bar shape, hood ergonomics/ position, the trail on a bike (and more) enters into the equation.

You never really know until you test ride a bike, IMHO.


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## Shuffleman (Sep 4, 2013)

PBL450 said:


> ^^^This. Shuffleman may have made a typo though? I think, and maybe I'm wrong, he meant go WITH the drop bar bike? Flat bar gives you less options for hand positions which matters a lot on long rides. Plus, the drops are a great place to be in a head wind! Especially on your aggressive geo bike with your flexible self. If you go to a good LBS and tell them about this discount and be clear that you want a fit, maybe some gear, assembly... They will be cool. And you will need them.
> 
> _*"I would not go with the drop bar if you have any intention of riding for long periods of time."
> 
> ...


It was such a bad typo that I had to read your quote in bold 3 times to even see it. I must be getting old. Thanks for pointing that out as I would hate for the op to have bought a flat bar bike.
OP, there is no such thing as a list of quality bike rankings. Most name brand bikes are very good. The components are typically similar in different bikes that are in the same price range. A bike is a highly subjective thing. I love Italian and German bikes. Others love Trek, Giant, DB, Cube and etc. Wilier and DB are just as good as any brand out there. Personally, I love Wilier and would buy that. DB is just as good but it is just my preference.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

PJ352 said:


> Maybe it's true for those saying it (like me) and not true for you. Everyone's different.
> 
> 
> If a bike is sized correctly for a given rider, yes, the fitting will go well. Depending on how far off sizing strays, the fitting may or may not go so well. Stray far enough on sizing, and the fitter will get into *making* the bike fit, but f/r weight distribution may well be off, and that can adversely affect handling.
> ...


All good points. I just wonder... Partly because, as I learn more and more about the importance of fit, I have come to think the quicky fit done to the test bike for your test ride could have a huge impact on your perception of that bike? 1cm on the bar stem, 3mm on the seat tube, different pedals... What do I know, though, I've never done it. The bike that's eye-balled closest to accurate wins? 

I have 2 bikes. A CAAD 8 and a Scott Foil. They are VERY different! So I completely get your points and agree. That said, if I tested them together the CAAD 8 is very user friendly and comfy compared to the Foil. The Foil is a little twitchy. But once I got used to the Scott, it is a wonderful bike and something I look forward to riding every single day. i like the CAAD 8, but the Foil has a whole different feel. It demands more of me but delivers more to me. I'm not saying I'm faster on one or the other, it's darn close, but I'm sure glad I spent the time getting broken in on that Foil, it's a wonderful bike. Not sure I'd think that on a test ride. But I'm a new rider. That's part of my point. What do I know?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

PBL450 said:


> What do I know?


You know what you like, and since it's your money and they're your bikes, that counts for a lot.

But beyond that, you make good points as well. The thing about test rides is... we do the best we can with what we've got to work with, then go with our gut instinct. As with most things, it may take a year (or at least several hours in the saddle) to determine if the right decision was made. 

As to the "quickie fit", that's part of weeding out the less than stellar LBS's. The better shops understand the importance of fit and longer test rides, so take longer to fit pre-test ride and encourage putting the bike(s) through their paces - out on the roads. 

There are no guarantees, but IMO this method betters the odds that a noob will make a good decision based on their needs and budget.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

PJ352 said:


> As to the "quickie fit", that's part of weeding out the less than stellar LBS's. The better shops understand the importance of fit and longer test rides, so take longer to fit pre-test ride and encourage putting the bike(s) through their paces - out on the roads.
> 
> There are no guarantees, but IMO this method betters the odds that a noob will make a good decision based on their needs and budget.


Great points!! And a compelling argument for the OP to scuttle his discounts and go with brick and mortar!


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## Wyldfyre911 (Jul 28, 2015)

Suppose its like buying a car then... all subjective like you said. One of the LBS had recommended a $1600 Trek bike though I thought with the discount that the DB or the Wilier would still be a higher component fit


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## Shuffleman (Sep 4, 2013)

Wyldfyre911 said:


> Suppose its like buying a car then... all subjective like you said. One of the LBS had recommended a $1600 Trek bike though I thought with the discount that the DB or the Wilier would still be a higher component fit


It is actually very different than buying a car. For the most part when you buy a car, they are all different. Chrysler cars have Chrysler engines. Honda has Honda engines. If you look at reliability reports Chrysler is at or near the bottom, while Honda is at or near the top. When it comes to bikes, you have mfrgs that make the frames. The frames are unique to the mfgr. The components are not and the same goes for the groupsets. When it comes to groupsets, you have 3 primary ones, Shimano, SRAMM and Campagnolo. I can take a Wilier Frame and a Trek frame and build them out with the exact same components. Cars are not done the same way. Thus, you have differences in reliability and quality of build. With a bike the variance in the quality of the build is limited to the frame only as they all have the same groupsets. We could spend all day going over components but for the most part bike companies use the products of others. For example on the Wilier GTS, it comes with a Sella Italia seat. Trek comes with a Bontrager seat. Another company may come with a Fizik seat. This is what makes bike buying more subjective. There is no Consumer Reports on the reliability of bikes like there is for cars because they are all virtually the same as far as reliability goes. Some companies may offer better support of have a larger dealer network. There are a lot of bikes that we could have recommended to you but you stated that you had a huge discount on DB or Wilier thus we stuck to those brands. If I had a 30% or 40% discount for those brands, I guarantee you that I would be riding one of them right now. If there are ten bikes from good mfgrs all equipped with Ultegra and similar specs they will be priced relatively the same. In the end, it comes down to personal preference. You will choose the one that looks the best to you or the one that has your colors. For whatever reason you give, it is just a personal preference. They are all good bikes. 
What I am trying to tell you is that you may be over thinking this entire thing. If you want a Trek, than get one. They are good bikes. If you can get Wilier or DB for such a huge discount, I think it would be crazy to look elsewhere. There is no other bike on the market that "better". Trek is simply not better than Wilier. They are different bikes and both are very nice and well made. It is your money to spend so you have to do what makes you happy. If it were my money, based on the info that you have given, I would have the Wilier Izoard or GTS in my garage.
I wish you the best of luck in whatever you do.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Wyldfyre911 said:


> Suppose its like buying a car then... all subjective like you said. One of the LBS had recommended a $1600 Trek bike though I thought with the discount that the DB or the Wilier would still be a higher component fit.


Some facets are subjective, some are more factual. 

FACT: Unless you like pain/ discomfort and the risk of possible injury, the bike *has* to fit, so make sure to get this right.

Component selection? Mostly preference and (IMO) buying into marketing hype. I ride just shy of 7k miles annually on Shimano 5600 105 - current Tiagra is probably better, but I do just fine with what I have.

BUT... my bike fits me very well, so it's comfortable to ride. 

Discounts are fine, but the support you get from reputable LBS's s worth a lot, IMHO.


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## Wyldfyre911 (Jul 28, 2015)

Thank you again everyone for your help. I'm going to see what I can do about the Wilier GTS or the Century 3 and see how they stack up! Thanks again!


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## Shuffleman (Sep 4, 2013)

PJ352 said:


> Some facets are subjective, some are more factual.
> 
> FACT: Unless you like pain/ discomfort and the risk of possible injury, the bike *has* to fit, so make sure to get this right.
> 
> ...


I have never disputed that a bike must fit. I would strongly recommend that you do get a fit. You can and will get great service from most LBS regardless of where you buy your bike. The OP should consult a fitter prior to buying the bike to ensure that the bike is the correct size for him. Once the bike arrives he should go back to the fitter for an actual fitting. A good shop will always support you. You do not have to buy the bike from them. You pay them for fittings and or service. A good business owner gives good service to everybody not just those that buy a bike from him. I did not buy my bike from my LBS. I consulted them on the sizing. I bought the parts and paid them to put it together and then fit me. Since then I have bought 2 mtbs from them, a few jerseys and multiple helmets. Good service pays off.


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## Wyldfyre911 (Jul 28, 2015)

Shuffleman said:


> It is actually very different than buying a car. For the most part when you buy a car, they are all different. Chrysler cars have Chrysler engines. Honda has Honda engines. If you look at reliability reports Chrysler is at or near the bottom, while Honda is at or near the top. When it comes to bikes, you have mfrgs that make the frames. The frames are unique to the mfgr. The components are not and the same goes for the groupsets. When it comes to groupsets, you have 3 primary ones, Shimano, SRAMM and Campagnolo. I can take a Wilier Frame and a Trek frame and build them out with the exact same components. Cars are not done the same way. Thus, you have differences in reliability and quality of build. With a bike the variance in the quality of the build is limited to the frame only as they all have the same groupsets. We could spend all day going over components but for the most part bike companies use the products of others. For example on the Wilier GTS, it comes with a Sella Italia seat. Trek comes with a Bontrager seat. Another company may come with a Fizik seat. This is what makes bike buying more subjective. There is no Consumer Reports on the reliability of bikes like there is for cars because they are all virtually the same as far as reliability goes. Some companies may offer better support of have a larger dealer network. There are a lot of bikes that we could have recommended to you but you stated that you had a huge discount on DB or Wilier thus we stuck to those brands. If I had a 30% or 40% discount for those brands, I guarantee you that I would be riding one of them right now. If there are ten bikes from good mfgrs all equipped with Ultegra and similar specs they will be priced relatively the same. In the end, it comes down to personal preference. You will choose the one that looks the best to you or the one that has your colors. For whatever reason you give, it is just a personal preference. They are all good bikes.
> What I am trying to tell you is that you may be over thinking this entire thing. If you want a Trek, than get one. They are good bikes. If you can get Wilier or DB for such a huge discount, I think it would be crazy to look elsewhere. There is no other bike on the market that "better". Trek is simply not better than Wilier. They are different bikes and both are very nice and well made. It is your money to spend so you have to do what makes you happy. If it were my money, based on the info that you have given, I would have the Wilier Izoard or GTS in my garage.
> I wish you the best of luck in whatever you do.


Awesome info. That is the problem I was having. I didn't know there were only 3 manufacturers of group-sets. So a TREK and a DB could technically have the same parts just different frames. So...

Its basically like Build your own Find the bike with the right price and the components that your looking for?


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## Shuffleman (Sep 4, 2013)

Wyldfyre911 said:


> Awesome info. That is the problem I was having. I didn't know there were only 3 manufacturers of group-sets. So a TREK and a DB could technically have the same parts just different frames. So...
> 
> Its basically like Build your own Find the bike with the right price and the components that your looking for?


Just go ride a couple of bikes in your price point and see which one you like the most. The frame is the most important part. You have to be comfortable on that in order to have a good experience. You have a great discount with DB and Wilier. My advise would be to pick out one that is in your price point and test it out. If your stated range is still good for you, you will be getting a great bike that will last for as long as you want to ride it.


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## fishboy316 (Feb 10, 2014)

Dude you should go and find one to ride!!! I was sold on the c-dale synapse 5 and after riding now own Cervelo S5. Completely different geo bike. I thought I wanted an endurance geo bike and found that was not the case. Fell in love with the S5 in the first mile. Have never looked back. It has a real stiff frame and it is a great hill climber. What am saying is try some bikes out and see what feels right!!! You will know when you ride the one IMHO. I rode about 20 different bikes and the S5 just said take me home! Just saying!

Bill


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