# 2011 pinarello



## shachah7

Some new pinarellos including paris 50-1.5 can be found on link below:

http://www.riogrande.co.jp/


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## cycleboyco

*Can anyone interpret?*

Interesting - so it looks like the Paris is coming back to life as a 50HM carbon version of the Dogma? I think I read elsewhere in this forum that Pinarello or Gita is announcing the 2011 lineup on July 19th, so we don't have to wait too long to find out for sure-unless Southpark cycles would care to drop a hint.


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## OscarTheGreat

Not sure what others think but I wish Pinarello would stick with some consistency of their line-up. Whats wrong with a lineup of:

Dogma - top of the line 'untouchable' 60HM1k
KOBH - new addition, specialist bike
Prince - top of the line 'acheiveable' 50HM1k
Paris - traditional shaping 46HM3k
Quattro - new moulds/allrounder ( I like the idea of this one to replace FP3,4,5,6etc) 30HM12k
Then your entry level bikes such as FP1 & FP2 in Al/Ca mixes and components.

My fear is the Pinarello name is getting away from it's foundations and being heavily influenced by high turnover, marketing and mass production. Other than sales hunger I cant see the benefit in the flagship model of one year being leapfrogged by a previous flagship from another year. Thoughts?


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## mccia

The new Paris looks more like the Prince than the Dogma. Seatpost is not aero and the fork looks less massive. I would bet that the Dogma has another year as the top dog. Maybe the Prince will come out of production for a couple of years. I am guessing - no inside info - but that seems to be the pattern over the last several years. I think the new models are seen at the time of the Grandfondo so it should be in a couple of weeks.


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## T-Dog

mccia said:


> The new Paris looks more like the Prince than the Dogma. Seatpost is not aero and the fork looks less massive. I would bet that the Dogma has another year as the top dog. Maybe the Prince will come out of production for a couple of years. I am guessing - no inside info - but that seems to be the pattern over the last several years. I think the new models are seen at the time of the Grandfondo so it should be in a couple of weeks.



It's a bloody joke! I still haven't got my Dogma I have been waiting for on order since January. By the time I get it, it will be already old!


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## southparkcycles

I just came across this thread and link and 2011 has definitely been on my mind . US reps have not seen anything yet. 

here is the tranlsations from the Japan site

[PINARELLO 2011 information] Asymmetric Design & 30HM carbon All Round " Quattro" Appearance! Being announced as all round model which is optimum to the amateur rider combining the 30HM high modulus carbon which is optimum to Asymmetric Design and the amateur cyclist where the effectiveness is proven with DOGMA™60.1, is " Quattro" Is

[PINARELLO 2011 information] finally revival! That PARIS with DOGMA™ 60.1 proved the superiority “Asymmetric System (left and right asymmetry)” with exhibited preponderant high performance with PRINCE CARBON as a racing model, adopting the “TORAYCA® 50HM carbon”, it is appearance. 
As for KOBH 60.1, the severe course where the road of the stone pavement is repeated when north European has the feature, weather which cannot be estimated classic race/lace in order to fight, the special motorcycle becomes necessary it received request from the team, with Team SKY was developed. KOBH 60.1 is the top range model of same [pinarero] as 60t super high modulus carbon fiber which uses the Nanoalloy technology ™ which is offered from TORAYCA® and DOGMA™60.1 which adopts the [pinarero] individual EPS moulding system.


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## southparkcycles

T-Dog

I am curious what Dogma are you waiting for. There has been short term open availability on Dogmas throughout the year and there may be some open stock currently. Maybe it is just due to particular color?


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## krtassoc

Here is a 'link' to a Japanese website with 'real' pictures of the 2011 Pinarello's: https://blog-imgs-42-origin.fc2.com/k/a/m/kamihagi/pari1.jpg


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## krtassoc

oops! Try this 'link' instead: http://kamihagi.blog122.fc2.com/


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## ghostryder

I think the dogma looks much more aggresive than the paris. I even like the Opera over the paris.


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## krtassoc

More 2011 Pinarello pictures: http://www.bikefunn.com/


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## steiger1

The Quattro seems to replace the FP3, the Paris the FP7. Obviously Pinarello goes back to name their bikes, as no one understands FP .. something. Even the Alu FP1 in 2010 was the FP2 in 2009.....

The KOBH is ugly, not well balanced an totally unnecessary.

For me, the Paris, Quattro and Prince as well look all too similar and the molds are more or less the same, only the carbon fiber is different. Forget about this asymetric thing.

I agree with Oscarthegreat that a traditionally shaped, light Paris (as it was) would be highly desireable.

I love Pinarello and stille ride my 2006 (!) F4:13 and wait every year for buying a new one, but no really breakthrough is expected to come, also in terms of weight. I mean, the Dogma is really nice, but has disadvantages too.


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## maximum7

> My fear is the Pinarello name is getting away from it's foundations and being heavily influenced by high turnover, marketing and mass production. Other than sales hunger I cant see the benefit in the flagship model of one year being leapfrogged by a previous flagship from another year. Thoughts?


I agree and I also think it would be nice to see them offer some different geometries in their frames.


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## krtassoc

Best pictures yet of 2011 Pinarello!: http://picasaweb.google.co.jp/display.swacchi/PINARELLO2011#


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## T-Dog

southparkcycles said:


> T-Dog
> 
> I am curious what Dogma are you waiting for. There has been short term open availability on Dogmas throughout the year and there may be some open stock currently. Maybe it is just due to particular color?



The Casse DEspargne team one mate.


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## arcustic

maximum7 said:


> My fear is the Pinarello name is getting away from it's foundations and being heavily influenced by high turnover, marketing and mass production. Other than sales hunger I cant see the benefit in the flagship model of one year being leapfrogged by a previous flagship from another year. Thoughts?
> 
> I agree and I also think it would be nice to see them offer some different geometries in their frames.


I wouldn't be surpirse about them being sales hungry given the popularity of Pinarello's frame. I have seen some of our local boys, followers of Pinarello, changing their frames almost every season.


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## southparkcycles

Grand Fondo is this weekend so there may be some shots showing up and keep an eye on Pinarello Italy's site starting Mondy. It sounds as some of the US show models will be in soon and potentially some for retail before what most would consider the end of summer. It only makes sense to me that Pinarello would do the same with the Dogma as the Prince. It only makes sense to pass the technology down to different bikes. As far as asymetric frameset there's not much to make sense of. There is more torque on the drive side of the bike. It only makes sense to design the frame in a way to compensate for that force.


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## southparkcycles

wholy pics great find. I am definitely curious which models will be US bound. I doubt Opera will be imported. I saw one of the 20010 Leonardos that was a sample and it was beautiful though.


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## southparkcycles

Here is the link to the 2011 Pinarello info. There also appears to only be one page in English. It seems that all of these should be imported into the US with exception of colors but i don't believe that info will be known until later this week.

http://pinarello.com/eng/dogma_carbon_540.php


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## OscarTheGreat

southparkcycles said:


> Here is the link to the 2011 Pinarello info. There also appears to only be one page in English. It seems that all of these should be imported into the US with exception of colors but i don't believe that info will be known until later this week.
> 
> http://pinarello.com/eng/dogma_carbon_540.php


Seems the Paris is the Prince but asymetric!?
FP4 (Quattro) is FP3 but asymetric!?


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## softwaredeveloper99

*Fp Quattro*

i am considering two bikes - the FPQUATTRO and the Trek 6.2. The Trek is a nice bike, however the FPQUATTRO stands out. Love the way it looks (was interested in the fp3)
Looking for feedback on the FPQUATTRO - will be planning to do a test ride in Feb once the snow and weather gets a bit nicer


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## ENVIGADO

i got mine two weeks ago......very nice ride :thumbsup:


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## softwaredeveloper99

Looks great - how would you rate the comfort?


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## james_in_Italy

*What does FP stand for?*



steiger1 said:


> Obviously Pinarello goes back to name their bikes, as no one understands FP ...


When I picked up my FP3 at the factory in Trevisio I asked what "FP" stood for. I was told it refers to _Familia Pinarello_ at least to all except Fausto who likes to think it refers to _Fausto Pinarello_


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## james_in_Italy

*Asymmetric*



OscarTheGreat said:


> Seems the Paris is the Prince but asymetric!?
> FP4 (Quattro) is FP3 but asymetric!?


All these Pinarello models have the "Asymmetric Rear System". Since both the FP3 and Quattro use the same 30HMK carbon, where are the differences between them? Subtle changes in geometry and new graphics?
I love my FP3!


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## southparkcycles

FPQ and Paris have the same asymmetrics as the Dogma. The Prince and FP3 started the trend w/ Asymmetric chainstays. We used FP3's in our rental fleet and now have the FPQ's. There is definitely a subtle difference between the 2. I noticed better accleration thru the pedal stroke.

Here is the explanation from Pinarello about asymmetric frame design.

http://www.gitabike.com/media/pi_dogma_2010.pdf

The Idea
The behavior of a bicycle frame is strongly asymmetric. While the forces applied to the pedals are approximately equal, the offset of the chain to the right side means that the forces acting on the frame are asymmetric.

The asymmetry of the Dogma 60.1 begins with the chainstays, but progresses through the
remainder of the frame as well as the fork. The right chainstay is smaller at the front end (near the bottom bracket) and grows larger towards the rear (dropout). Conversely, the left chainstay is reinforced on its front end, which is a very high-stress area, and grows thinner toward the rear. The right seatstay is larger and stronger than the left to counteract the forces acting on the bottom bracket area. The lower left of the top tube is reinforced as well and the right fork blade is noticeably larger and more angular in shape than the left. These are the regions that were determined to undergo the most stress from the asymmetrical pedaling forces and have therefore been strengthened, while other areas have been lightened. This creates a bicycle that is more “balanced” than possible with conventional techniques.


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## DiegoMontoya

southparkcycles said:


> FPQ and Paris have the same asymmetrics as the Dogma. The Prince and FP3 started the trend w/ Asymmetric chainstays. We used FP3's in our rental fleet and now have the FPQ's. There is definitely a subtle difference between the 2. I noticed better accleration thru the pedal stroke.
> 
> Here is the explanation from Pinarello about asymmetric frame design.
> 
> http://www.gitabike.com/media/pi_dogma_2010.pdf
> 
> The Idea
> The behavior of a bicycle frame is strongly asymmetric. While the forces applied to the pedals are approximately equal, the offset of the chain to the right side means that the forces acting on the frame are asymmetric.
> 
> The asymmetry of the Dogma 60.1 begins with the chainstays, but progresses through the
> remainder of the frame as well as the fork. The right chainstay is smaller at the front end (near the bottom bracket) and grows larger towards the rear (dropout). Conversely, the left chainstay is reinforced on its front end, which is a very high-stress area, and grows thinner toward the rear. The right seatstay is larger and stronger than the left to counteract the forces acting on the bottom bracket area. The lower left of the top tube is reinforced as well and the right fork blade is noticeably larger and more angular in shape than the left. These are the regions that were determined to undergo the most stress from the asymmetrical pedaling forces and have therefore been strengthened, while other areas have been lightened. This creates a bicycle that is more “balanced” than possible with conventional techniques.


I'm a Prince owner, and likely soon to be a Dogma owner, and that's a one of the biggest loads of marketing BS I've ever heard. More "balanced"? What is that even supposed to mean?

The Dogma looks awesome. That's 99.9% of the reason people buy it. The asymmetric crap is just a marketing. It's like saying the paint on the Mona Lisa is mixed with holy water. Who cares. It just looks great.


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## southparkcycles

> The asymmetric crap is just a marketing.


I would have to disagree with that. There is no doubt more force on the bike on the drive train side and asymmetry has been used in mtb frames for quite some time, especially dual suspensions (take a look almost any rear triangle or even better a bike from Pivot). I am surprised it has taken the technology so long to make it to road bikes.


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## maximum7

I'm with DiegoM on this one. 
Maybe on paper and all, but on the road, I doubt it.


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## foofighter

i have a question, i'm currently riding an FP7 in a 50 and if i move up to a dogma that has that proprietary seatpost and layback saddle design, that would pose a problem for me as I'm just right with my current reach with the stem and bar combo that came with the bike.

So would i have to go down another size to accommodate for the layback seatpost since now i may have a reach problem? Or suck it up and get a shorter stem? which would not be my first choice


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## cycleboyco

Looks like the seat tube angle is steeper (74) on the Dogma in a 50 than the FP7 (73.4), which would make your seat further back on the Dogma to be in the same position relative to the BB, if that is what you are going for. This may make the setback seatpost be OK, but it will extend your reach. Since it looks like the top tube is the same on both 50s, it will require a shorter stem to get the same reach. Don't know the exact amounts, but your thinking seems to be correct. 

I had a similar issue going from a Paris to a Prince, but the top tube was shorter on the same size Prince, so the shorter top tube canceled out pushing the seat back. Still ended up pulling the stem back a cm. 

Good Luck


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## foofighter

where did you get the 73.4 from? i pulled up the 2010 archeive geo from gita and it lists the same geo as the dogma. Looked at the 2011 geo and it's 74 for the 50

Am i looking at the right thing?

http://www.gitabike.com/cgi-bin/sho...=tmplt_geometry.htm&0=L9aoMDbAxaRM&0_option=1

http://www.pinarello.com/else/technical_data.pdf


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## cycleboyco

*I stand corrected*

Sorry - I also went to the Gita archives, but obviously was looking at the wrong numbers - when I looked again, the geometry chart is the same for the FP7, Dogma, Prince and FP3. 

That said, if the geo is the same, are you concerned about the setback seatpost because you are on a zero offset now and do not think you have enough saddle rail room to get the same saddle setback with the setback post?


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## foofighter

yes, exactly. I looked at the sloping 46.5 and the TT length is shorter 515mm vs 525 on the 50. that way i avoid having to go w/ a shorter stem...really need to sit on a 46.5 though


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