# Giant Propel vs. Specialized Venge vs. Trek Madone



## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

I want to get an aero race bike. Budget is $4,500-$5,000. I want disc brakes. I'm fine with a mechanical drivetrain, I would prefer electronic but it's tough in this price range. I have dealers for all brands in my area but I'd prefer to go with a local dealer of Specialized and Giant as I like their service.

Three 2019 models I'm primarily considering:
Giant Propel Advanced 1 Disc ( https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/bikes-propel-advanced-disc )
Specialized Venge Expert Disc ( https://www.specialized.com/us/en/venge-expert-disc/p/128980 )
Trek Madone SL 6 ( https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...-sl/madone-sl-6/p/24165/?colorCode=black_grey )

I think I prefer the Propel as I honestly like the looks better (lol). These are all similar builds so I'm splitting hairs.

Other options I should consider?


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## kevina6 (Apr 10, 2017)

Madone every day. 


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Madone >> Propel >>>>>> Venge
I'd go with Madone


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm kind of with you guys on the Madone. Objectively, it might be the best bike here.

Two problems:
1. Rim brakes. As I said above, I prefer discs.
2. I really despise (a word I don't use lightly) my local Trek dealer. I'd have to go somewhere else to buy.

Also, I would have agreed with you guys about the undesirability of the Venge last year when Specialized was deep into their proprietary nonsense BS. However, the 2019 Venge is a much more straight forward and practical affair.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Hiro11 said:


> I'm kind of with you guys on the Madone. Objectively, it's the best bike here.
> 
> Two problems:
> 1. Rim brakes. As I said above, I prefer discs.
> 2. I really despise (a word I don't use lightly) my local Trek dealer. I'd have to go somewhere else to buy.


Well, you put it on the list......

(My vote is the Madone also)


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## kevina6 (Apr 10, 2017)

Hiro11 said:


> I'm kind of with you guys on the Madone. Objectively, it's the best bike here.
> 
> Two problems:
> 1. Rim brakes. As I said above, I prefer discs.
> ...


Madone is now available with discs. 


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

kevina6 said:


> Madone is now available with discs.


Cheapest disc option as far as I can tell is $6,300 (the SLR 6 Disc). Out of my budget and frankly kind of insane that this is Trek's lowest priced aero disc road bike. 

Also, it looks like the 2019 non-disc Madone is using Trek's kooky proprietary "aero" rim brakes, which I know to be not great. Not a deal killer, but I prefer discs for several reasons I won't outline here.

Upsides for the Madone: great build, almost certainly the most compliant ride.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Rim vs disc, that's your call.

But as far as Trek's rim brakes go, they work just fine, not as great as Shimano, but they are fine. I know plenty of guys who descend on legit mountains with 8-10% gradient with them just fine


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

*Not a Chance*

Boring vs Boring vs Boring. LOL None of those get my pulse up. Now a Time Scylon? Definitely.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Notvintage said:


> Boring vs Boring vs Boring. LOL None of those get my pulse up. Now a Time Scylon? Definitely.


The OP appears to be limiting himself to buying from LBS. When you do that, your options are mostly the mass market brands. I agree with your boring comment completely.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

Notvintage said:


> Boring vs Boring vs Boring. LOL None of those get my pulse up. Now a Time Scylon? Definitely.


+2 on the boring comment.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Notvintage said:


> Boring vs Boring vs Boring. LOL None of those get my pulse up. Now a Time Scylon? Definitely.


other than Time being a less seen label, what is unique about the Scylon compared to the other bikes mentioned in here, from an aero perspective (since aero is the OP's top criteria)?


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

What about the Cannondale System Six?


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

Notvintage said:


> Boring vs Boring vs Boring. LOL None of those get my pulse up. Now a Time Scylon? Definitely.


Yeah, the "Activ" version is $4,200 for the frameset alone. Might as well recommend a Pinarello F10. Not going to happen. Guys, please read my post before responding.

I'm not willing to buy somewhat obscure European brands online for what is a significant amount of money for me. I also highly doubt that "non-boring" options are better in any material way.


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

frdfandc said:


> What about the Cannondale System Six?


Great option but I don't trust Cannondale bottom bracket setups. This is based on everyone I've ever ridden with who has a Cannondale with a press fit BB has had problems. In fairness, Treks aren't much better, in my experience.


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## kevina6 (Apr 10, 2017)

Hiro11 said:


> Great option but I don't trust Cannondale bottom bracket setups. This is based on everyone I've ever ridden with who has a Cannondale with a press fit BB has had problems. In fairness, Treks aren't much better, in my experience.


I’ve had my Madone for over 18 months. I live in Ireland where we get our fair amount of wet weather and have only replaced the BB once in that time. 

My choice out of what you said would still be the Madone. I would only replace mine with another one that’s how much I like it. 

The rim brakes are more than adequate and that’s using full carbon wheels. Have ridden it on long wet descents here and kind dry descents in Mallorca and have always been able to stop in time. 


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

Hiro11 said:


> Great option but I don't trust Cannondale bottom bracket setups. This is based on everyone I've ever ridden with who has a Cannondale with a press fit BB has had problems. In fairness, Treks aren't much better, in my experience.


I have a 2015 CAAD10 with DA9000 (purchased 2/15), a 2016 Super Six Evo Hi Mod 2 (purchased 9/16) and am currently having a CAAD12 Black Inc frameset built up with DA9100. My 2015 CAAD10 and 2016 EVO use the Hollowgram SiSL2 BB30 press fit bottom brackets and to be honest, they have been very reliable. The CAAD10 has 27K miles on it and the EVO just a little under 14K miles. I just had the BB bearings replaced on the CAAD10 in Feb of this year for the first time (after numerous training miles, commuter miles and crit races). The reason for that was because I pressure washed the bike at the car wash when I was washing my car...dumb mistake. Other than that, it was buttery smooth before. The EVO. The mass majority of Cannondale BB30s I've heard of with creaking issues have been the 105 models- which come equipped with the FSA bottom bracket. Rarely have I heard of the Cannondale bottom brackets on the higher end models having the creaking noises.....Now that I have said that, my new CAAD12 build will creak once it's done. (SIGH)


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

I think you miss the point. What they mean is that you picked the typical Big Three. Those companies are common because of their business practices. Look at shops that sell them. They are almost always exclusively selling that brands product. Those manufacturers tell shops what to carry, so you never get any options outside those brands. Bike shops have always been about offering different options form different manufacturers, but Not Trek, Specialized, or Giant retailers. Because of this, most cyclists, don't see beyond those companies. There are other options out there from brands like Felt, Scott, BMC, Canyon, Bianchi, etc. They are pretty much all on par with one another. You just mentioned the most heavily marketed ones... the ones dishing out the most Kool-Aid. They make great bikes, but so does everyone else. As for cost, Trek and Specialized wouldn't be a consideration since they are couple of the most overpriced for what you get (someone has to pay for their marketing budgets). If you're in an area where those are your only options, I understand, but just know that the only things that making one better than the other is how well one brand fits you and how well you like the aesthetics. Sorry for no paragraphs. I'm typing this from my cell phone...Good luck.


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks for the thoughtful post, please see my responses.


terbennett said:


> I think you miss the point. What they mean is that you picked the typical Big Three. Those companies are common because of their business practices. Look at shops that sell them. They are almost always exclusively selling that brands product. Those manufacturers tell shops what to carry, so you never get any options outside those brands. Bike shops have always been about offering different options form different manufacturers, but Not Trek, Specialized, or Giant retailers. Because of this, most cyclists, don't see beyond those companies.


It's also possible that these three particular models are simply the best options. All three are highly regarded.


> There are other options out there from brands like Felt, Scott, BMC, Canyon, Bianchi, etc. They are pretty much all on par with one another. You just mentioned the most heavily marketed ones... the ones dishing out the most Kool-Aid.


Not sure about this. I've demoed a current model Venge, Tarmac and TCR. All were fantastic bikes. "Kool Aid" seem harsh.


> As for cost, Trek and Specialized wouldn't be a consideration since they are couple of the most overpriced for what you get (someone has to pay for their marketing budgets).


Hard to argue with this point. Trek's pricing is a bit wacky these days. This is another reason I'm leaning towards the Giant. Giant's carbon manufacturing quality is also industry leading if Leuscher Teknik is anything to go by.


> If you're in an area where those are your only options, I understand,


Nope, as I hinted in my original post, I live in a major city and have some truly excellent LBSs in my local area. I picked the Venge and Propel because I really like the local shop that sells those brands. I also really like the '19 Venge and Propel, which helps. I picked the Madone because it seems to be the most highly regarded aero bike today. maybe that's because Trek paid for good reviews, who knows. All I know if my friends who have the '18 Madone love it.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Also made by Giant. Even though I'm not a connoisseur of Taiwanese plastic, I'd take it over a Trek or Specialized. No one really needs disc brakes. It's just the newest BS "improvement" the bike industry is shoving down out throats. I don't work for Excel.

https://www.excelsports.com/main.as...ycle+2018&vendorCode=PINAREL&major=1&minor=35


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

pmf said:


> Also made by Giant. Even though I'm not a connoisseur of Taiwanese plastic, I'd take it over a Trek or Specialized. No one really needs disc brakes. It's just the newest BS "improvement" the bike industry is shoving down out throats. I don't work for Excel.
> 
> https://www.excelsports.com/main.as...ycle+2018&vendorCode=PINAREL&major=1&minor=35


Thanks for the suggestion. A local shop has a few of these in stock, I might go check it out.


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

Hiro11 said:


> Yeah, the "Activ" version is $4,200 for the frameset alone. Might as well recommend a Pinarello F10. Not going to happen. Guys, please read my post before responding.


F10 is a cheap, over-hyped, overpriced, Taiwanese open mold frame. Wouldn't recommend it. o-kay, back on topic. . .


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

The Madone is the most elegantly integrated with smooth lines.. of all the aero frames out there. No other aero frames can come close to the elegance of the Madone right now. And to top it off, it is also possibly the most comfy of the aero frames out there too to to its flexy seatpost. If anything, it's all the other aero frames that look like each other.

Having said that, get the Giant if it's cheap.

As for the Venge. Why bother. It's not cheap, and it's not as aero, and not as elegant.


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## durianrider (Sep 26, 2009)

Get a Norco Tactic. Direct mount brakes let you run fatter rims and tires and its a very low maintainance bike compared to the others which can be a nightmare to swap out stems etc.


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## izza (Jul 25, 2012)

I’ve owned all 3 of these at different times. 

I’d go:

1. Madone
2. Venge
3. Propel. 

Reasons:

- Madone feels most comfortable on longer rides yet quite nimble when out of the saddle. The Isospeed works. 
- I prefer its looks. 
- it marginally felt the heaviest. This can be accentuated on larger frame sizes. Go for SLR or H1 fitting is possible. 
- Venge (admittedly generation 1) also was a special ride. It was supposed to be the least comfortable but with gel on the handlebars it was fine. After 70 plus miles you could feel a bit ‘beat up’ but it was completely insignificant. 
- Propel may appear as most bang for buck but never really felt special at the cafe. It was the most docile for handling. You really have to commit to corners and roundabouts. 

All the above were/are rim brake models so I would extrapolate/be concerned about:

- with extra disc weight on fork would the Propel handling be too docile?
- I haven’t kept up to date re Specialized and their non-standard parts. 
- Venge in a sprint felt the most nimble and ‘flickable’. 
- SL6 is 2018 Madone so has the old brakes. I’ve switched to a Madone SLR and rim brakes are perfectly fine. Trek have extended their warranty to 2 years on carbon wheels so no worries about delamination. 
- if you have an issue re the dealer there is the listen360. Leave Trek to sort out dealer!



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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

I'm going to go against most of the replies here and say (as I have before) that support from a good local bike shop is very important. As much as you may like the Trek bike (and it doesn't sound like it's at the top of your list anyway), if you have to deal with attitude and bad vibes every time you need it serviced, I would rule it out.

So that leaves you with the Giant Propel and the Specialized Venge. Personally, I would lean toward the Giant, but I would say test ride both and buy the one you like the feel of better and the one that fits you better. As I have said many times on these forums, there is nothing more important that a proper fit.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Lombard said:


> I'm going to go against most of the replies here and say (as I have before) that support from a good local bike shop is very important. As much as you may like the Trek bike (and it doesn't sound like it's at the top of your list anyway), if you have to deal with attitude and bad vibes every time you need it serviced, I would rule it out.


Well, other than warranty service which is likely not going to be needed, any shop can service the Trek. I would pick the bike I want and take it somewhere else for service before I chose something lesser.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Srode said:


> Well, other than warranty service which is likely not going to be needed, any shop can service the Trek. I would pick the bike I want and take it somewhere else for service before I chose something lesser.


All of these bikes are good. Personally, I would not want to reward an a-hole shop with a large bike purchase. I would rather reward the good shop, but that's just me.


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

Lombard said:


> All of these bikes are good. Personally, I would not want to reward an a-hole shop with a large bike purchase. I would rather reward the good shop, but that's just me.


I do have many Trek shops in the area, definitely going to give the Madone a try this weekend. Love the look of that bike. You're right, though. The shop that sells Specialized/Giant (and a bunch of higher-end brands) is owned by a guy I've known for years and ride with occasionally. They're also a "destination" shop known for really good service. I can do most things on a bike, but I'd rather pay a pro.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Hiro11 said:


> The shop that sells Specialized/Giant (and a bunch of higher-*Priced* brands)


Fixed it for you


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Hiro11 said:


> Great option but I don't trust Cannondale bottom bracket setups. This is based on everyone I've ever ridden with who has a Cannondale with a press fit BB has had problems. In fairness, Treks aren't much better, in my experience.


Well to be fair, all the bikes you list have press fit bottom brackets which can have the same issues. I have a 2014 Cannondale Synapse Carbon with BB30. 8,500 miles and no creaks so far - knock on carbon!


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Honest question:
Why would anyone get a Venge over a Madane? (if prices are about the same)

The Madone beats the Venger all areas that are imporant

1. better aero
2. better integration
3. better lines
4. better comfort

In essence, the Madone is faster and more comfortable. Isn't this the holy grail?

OP, go check out the Madone first. I'm not a carbon bike guy, but if there's one carbon bike I'd buy for performance, it'd be the Madone.


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## bing181 (Oct 17, 2005)

Hiro11 said:


> Yeah, the "Activ" version is $4,200 for the frameset alone. Might as well recommend a Pinarello F10. Not going to happen. Guys, please read my post before responding.


Out of what you posted, I'd also do the Madone.

But re Pinarellos, you could consider the Gan, or current version, Prince - has most of the aero properties of the F8/F10 for a fraction of the price. And according to the German Tour magazine tests, is more aero than any of the bikes you mentioned.

FWIW, the one that consistently does best on aero (Tour Magazine again) is the Canyon Aeroad, but the Gan is only slightly behind on that front, though is a better all-round bike and climber - confirmed for me by a friend who went from a club-sponsored Gan to the Canyon.


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