# Bring back the 9 speed!



## kneejerk (Feb 2, 2007)

Dear Shimano!

Please bring back the 9 speed cassette group to the high end line of road components! I find the 10 speed (and don't even think of going narrower to 11 or 12!) to be overly sensitive to the cable adjustment, wear and climate changes. The 9 speeds are so sweet at being less maintenance intensive. You know this yourself from your mountain biking testing. BTW a 10 speed 6mm chain works great on a 9 speed cassette spacing. Bring it back, okay!

I'll settle for 8 speed with 10 spacing for a stronger rear wheel (less dish).

Love,
Kneejerk


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## fast ferd (Jan 30, 2009)

Dura Ace 9 sp chainrings last forever. Not so sure about the cassettes and chains. The 8 sp group seemed pretty bullet proof. As they strive for lightness/thinness, the parts appear to wear faster, huh?


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## brentley (Jul 20, 2008)

I have Ultegra 9 on one bike and ultegra 10 and my experience with adjustment is similar, the 10 speed just goes wonky a bit faster.

That being said there are some things I love about 10 speed.

1. I hate the hoods on my 2001 Ultegra 6500 they are small I much prefer my 2008 Ultegra SL 
2. When properly adjusted the shifting on the 10 speed is just a bit smoother.


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## kneejerk (Feb 2, 2007)

brentley said:


> I have Ultegra 9 on one bike and ultegra 10 and my experience with adjustment is similar, the 10 speed just goes wonky a bit faster.
> 
> That being said there are some things I love about 10 speed.
> 
> ...


I have the Tiagra 4500 shifters (9 speed) and they have the larger hood perches you are looking for!

Switch to a 10 speed chain compatable crank set and put on a 10 speed chain and experience the smoother cassette shifting of the 10 speed drivetrain! It's the narrower chain that makes the rear shifting snick into cogs better.


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## macbugs (Jul 12, 2004)

*I agree*



brentley said:


> I have Ultegra 9 on one bike and ultegra 10 and my experience with adjustment is similar, the 10 speed just goes wonky a bit faster.
> 
> That being said there are some things I love about 10 speed.
> 
> ...



My 6500 Ultegra hoods can't hold a candle to the 105 on my cross bike.
10 speed is finicky but does shift a bit smoother.

And I hate the prices on the 10 speed stuff.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

I agree. If you actually look at the grouppos, you'll bdiscover that 8 speed was the best blend of performance and durability. 9 speed improved performce and did lose some durability (not much though). 10 speed has just gone overboard. The performance has improved a bit, but durability has fallen off severely. My chain costs more than double my old 9 speed chain did and it's recommended replacement interval is only 1/3 of my old 9 speed system's chain was. We complain, but remember that drivetrains at this caliber are designed for racers that get new bikes every season. Long-term durability is a non-issue because those riders don't keep the drivetrains that long and the masses usually buy because the drivetrains were ridden by those riders. 

I'm glad you brought up the mountain biking testing. One of my buds in the industry was telling me how these companies (Shimano included) were talking about going back to 8 speed at one time because of the durability was superior in MTB applications. 9 speed has proven itself to be quite reliable though- which is why that never happened. If a $5,000 mountain bike isn't even available with a 10 speed drivetrain yet, that should tell you something.


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## Pieter (Oct 17, 2005)

I agree too. But the funny thing is, a 10 speed chain is just a repackaged 9 speed. Same 2mm rollers, same pins. The inner cage is a fraction narrower and the outer a little more. IMHO a 10 speed chain must last as long as a 9, and in all respects can supersede a 9 to become a 'generic' 9-10 speed.

But most 10 speeds seem not to last as long as the equivalent 9. Why not?


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## kneejerk (Feb 2, 2007)

Pieter said:


> I agree too. But the funny thing is, a 10 speed chain is just a repackaged 9 speed. Same 2mm rollers, same pins. The inner cage is a fraction narrower and the outer a little more. IMHO a 10 speed chain must last as long as a 9, and in all respects can supersede a 9 to become a 'generic' 9-10 speed.
> 
> But most 10 speeds seem not to last as long as the equivalent 9. Why not?


Well, I don't know about the 9 and 10 speed chains being all that similar. One peculiar thing about the 10 speed (atleast Shimano) chains is that they start out "looser" as far as with a "wear gauge". They reach a 1.0mm wear faster due to that "looser" start. It appears that the 10 speed chain starts with "looser" rollers on the pins. I still replace my 10 speed chains when they reach 1.0mm wear (with Park CC3 wear gauge) or a little over. The specs. on the 10 speed chain suggest that the rollers are actually a little narrower than 9 speed if I recall (I haven't measured).

cheers!


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## Pieter (Oct 17, 2005)

I was comparing the Shimano 9 speed chain (HG73 style) with 10 speed Ultegra.

They differ a lot in detail. Maybe both are made by KMC.

The 9 speed resembles KMC's 9 speed 'Shimano OEM' chain.
The 10 speed is a lot like the KMC DX10.

But both run similar width, 2mm, rollers. I have disassembled and checked.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

terbennett said:


> ... If a $5,000 mountain bike isn't even available with a 10 speed drivetrain yet, that should tell you something.


Specialized has taken the past few years to refine their 29-inch-wheel designs, and the line features both hardtail and full-suspension FSR cross-country race bikes, and an aluminum Stumpjumper FSR.









*Specialized S-Works Epic 29. *Photo: Ryan Cleek

The S-Works Epic 29 is bike you’ll likely be seeing a lot of on the trail, as it combines race-oriented cross-country performance with the forgiving trail riding nature of a 29-inch-wheeled bike. *The Epic 29 will be available with SRAM’s XX group and 2x10 gearing*, plus feature a Specialized/RockShox collaboration Reba fork. The fork utilizes Specialized's tapered carbon steerer tube mounted on RockShox Reba lowers. The Epic 29 has 90-milimeters (3.1 inches) of rear wheel travel, and 100-millimeters (3.9 inches) of fork travel.


No mention of price.


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## kneejerk (Feb 2, 2007)

Dreaming of 3x8 drive trains with 30/40/50 front rings and 11-25 out back!....... come on Shimano...... pull that head out of there!


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## Fai Mao (Nov 3, 2008)

I agree about the 8 speed

I built up a new bike last year to ride back & forth and for pleasure. Because I also tour on this bike the 3rd World parts of China and Thailand I purposely built it with an 8X3 setup. There is a lot snarky remarks on forms about how a compact double eliminates the need for a triple but if you are tourist, commuter or someone with bad knees it simply isn't true. A 3X8 can give you much lower gears without sacrificing too much on the high end. I ride a 26/38/48 up front and a 12 - 28 in back. The triple gives me a much wider range of USABLE gears with fewer duplicates and is more customizable. 

Here is another advantage that never occurs to racers or riders who do not go farther than they can push the bike back to the parking lot where their SUV with a bike rack is parked. With an 8 speed system I can easily find parts in almost any corner of the world. The 8 speed with a friction option can run any rear wheel with any number of cogs. If you are touring and trash an 8 speed wheel in an area with no bike shop you can go into a Wal-Mart in a small town and buy a cheap bike for less than the cost of having a wheel repaired (even if there was bike shop to do it) You can then cut your hub from the trashed rim swap out the wheels with the Huffy, throw the rest of the huffy away and off you go. It isn't ideal but it gets you back on the road. That trick will not work with a 9 or 10 speed system.

The whole issue of the ever increasing number of rear cogs would be funny if a 10-speed cassette didn't cost nearly $100.00 USD. I don't laugh about that much money.


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## kneejerk (Feb 2, 2007)

for what it is worth, I don't think the cheap 8 speed stuff is going away, if they are smart, 

I was thinking more of creating a 3x8 with current 10 speed spacing, therefore the rear wheel would not be as dished and stronger which may allow for less spokes (although some already try that),........ the only draw back I see to my 3x8 is the minor addition to "Q factor" that exists up front compared to a double which may bother some Pro riders (which possibly could be overcome with a little more engineering into the crankset?) but doesn't bother me,


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## Fai Mao (Nov 3, 2008)

I wasn't talking about the cheap 8 speed stuff. 

My bike was all NOS top of the line 8 speed. The US cost was over $4000.00 including the shipping and airfreight. However, the ability of good 8 speed to work with cheap 8 speed is a plus if you have to replace a wheel in a small town.


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