# So Cervelo and Garmin are parting ways with slipstream?



## fireplug (Nov 19, 2008)

I have heard the rumors for a while that Cannondale was going to replace Cervelo for 2015 on the Garmin/Slipstream team. It has been confirmed that by Cervelo that both sides [Garmin and Cervelo] have chosen "not to exercise its renewal options for 2015." With that, one can only assume this leaves the Cannondale merger to happen.

The part that I must have missed was Vaughters saying that Garmin will not continue as a title sponsor. Any idea what Garmin is going to do? Title sponsor with another team? Smaller sponsorship role with Slipstream-Cannondale?


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

I've heard from the Argon-18 people that they're bidding for the Sharp team pretty hard. Not sure if they can win against Cannondale but they're trying. Sharp will probably remain and become the major sponsor but that team is all kinds of uncertain right now.


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## PaxRomana (Jan 16, 2012)

Garmin is one iPhone app away from disaster.


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## Z6_esb (Feb 16, 2012)

PaxRomana said:


> Garmin is one iPhone app away from disaster.


You mean financially? Aren't their GPS products the standard or am I behind the times?


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

I thought Garmin would be staying as a smaller sponsor, just not as a title sponsor?


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Dan Gerous said:


> I thought Garmin would be staying as a smaller sponsor, just not as a title sponsor?


That's my understanding as well. I am pretty sure that I read that in the article annoucing the split. 

Vaughters confirms sponsorship change for 2015 | Cyclingnews.com


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

PaxRomana said:


> Garmin is one iPhone app away from disaster.


 The GPS chips in a Garmin are higher quality then the ones in phones.. otherwise I agree with you... Better GPS chips can be added to phones for more $$$ though. I have an EDGE 1000 which is getting about as large as I want a computer.. I certainly would not want a Samsung Note3 off the front of my bike.


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## SNS1938 (Aug 9, 2013)

PaxRomana said:


> Garmin is one iPhone app away from disaster.


Agreed. And for in-car GPS, soon enough all car radios will have GPS (or bluetooth and people will just use their cellphones through the radio). I have a 705, and the main reasons I use it sometimes over the iPhone strava app, are: 1) longer battery life (which phones are catching up on) and 2) it uploads automatically to strava.

Garmin need some innovation (their power pedals might help a while, but they'll not carry the cycling business) if they're going to be around in the future.


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## ti-triodes (Aug 14, 2006)

I'm actually surprised Sharp is possibly going to be the major sponsor. Their financial picture is absolutely dire.


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## Rokh On (Oct 30, 2011)

One app away from disaster? Interesting. Of late I was beginning to believe their undoing would be related to switching from MapSource to BaseCamp.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

PaxRomana said:


> Garmin is one iPhone app away from disaster.


This! Apps could do the Garmin what cell phone cameras did to cameras.

My Blackberry has an app that is just as good as Garmin. The clock is ticking.


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## jajichan (Jul 9, 2014)

SNS1938 said:


> Garmin need some innovation (their power pedals might help a while, but they'll not carry the cycling business) if they're going to be around in the future.


Their pedals are a disaster. When your protour team doesn't even use them on the world's biggest stage and instead blatantly uses a direct competitor, there are some serious issues.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

^ Agreed, I could not believe they had a rider using an SRM. Could also not believe the team allowed it.


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## SNS1938 (Aug 9, 2013)

jajichan said:


> Their pedals are a disaster. When your protour team doesn't even use them on the world's biggest stage and instead blatantly uses a direct competitor, there are some serious issues.


Oh, I didnt know that, I'd just assumed they worked. I have a high impression of Garmin as a good technology company ... so figured they'd work.

Yeah, so cars will have build in GPS as standard (like CD players) or bluetooth and people use their cellphones (like the current move to not even put CD players in cars, and just let people plug their phones in and play mp3's).

Bikes ... it's going to be a hard sell, 'hey, pay us $200-800 for a bike computer that does what an a free app does' ... 

I hope they've got a good chief technology officer or similar to focus the engineers onto something new


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## Z6_esb (Feb 16, 2012)

I thought the riders who wore non-Look pedal systems used something else and those who could use them do?


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## colnagoG60 (Jun 27, 2013)

SNS1938 said:


> Oh, I didnt know that, I'd just assumed they worked. I have a high impression of Garmin as a good technology company ... so figured they'd work.
> 
> Yeah, so cars will have build in GPS as standard (like CD players) or bluetooth and people use their cellphones (like the current move to not even put CD players in cars, and just let people plug their phones in and play mp3's).
> 
> ...


Meh, I'm sure it'll change for the masses, but I'll still prefer a dedicated device. I currently have a Garmin 510, but the Magellan 505 will be my next computer:

 Mio Cyclo 505 HC Track Navigation: http://youtu.be/113ShEVpQfc


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## OldChipper (May 15, 2011)

colnagoG60 said:


> Meh, I'm sure it'll change for the masses, but I'll still prefer a dedicated device. [/URL]


This. Cell phone GPS sucks too much battery power and the chip isn't as reliable. Wouldn't you feel pretty stupid if you had to call for a ride and your phone was dead because you were using it as a cycle computer? Also, I like my phone inside it's nice plastic bag in my back jersey pocket, not strapped to my bars and exposed to the elements. I assume that like me, everyone else likes to see their speed, distance, % grade, power etc. *while* they're riding???


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

OldChipper said:


> This. Cell phone GPS sucks too much battery power and the chip isn't as reliable. Wouldn't you feel pretty stupid if you had to call for a ride and your phone was dead because you were using it as a cycle computer? Also, I like my phone inside it's nice plastic bag in my back jersey pocket, not strapped to my bars and exposed to the elements. I assume that like me, everyone else likes to see their speed, distance, % grade, power etc. *while* they're riding???


You could just always carry an extra battery? I do use a Garmin but I do not find it more accurate than my GS5.


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## colnagoG60 (Jun 27, 2013)

Its not the GPS as much as its the screen being "on" which is the largest battery drain. I have Map My Ride running, for 4+hrs, and it only drops my Galaxy S4's (also in a plastic bag in my back jersey pocket...lesson learned after getting caught in a thunder storm) battery 15% or so. Also have to worry if the area where one is riding, that the map is already cached, because if you lose cell signal, you may get some of the ride info dropped, or if relying on turn-by-turn, one may be "a55-out" and get lost.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

I agree. Dedicated device is the way to go (for dedicated riders).
Mounting of iPhone and battery life is among issues to consider, plus durability in bad weather condition, screen visibility, form factor etc.
Garmin 500 has about 1/3 battery capacity of iPhone but can last for 19 hours, while iPhone can barely handle 5 hour rides.

I think Garmin has the market cornered for now - no app from iPhone will make much of a difference right now. Of course this could change.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

I can't be bothered with this Garmin business.

I'm still reeling over the loss of 7-Eleven.


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## badge118 (Dec 26, 2002)

PaxRomana said:


> Garmin is one iPhone app away from disaster.


The GPS in cell phones...basically...well suck. It's wonderful when you are responding to a 911 call that used phase 2 (read GPS) to identify the location and you get "in a 1000 meter radius of location X".

Its one of the reasons they recommend you keep your cellphones WiFi on for more precise navigation...the phones will use public WiFi spots to help neaten things up. That doesn't work too well in rural areas though.

Also Garmin simply has faster turn around time. Now GPS and GLONAS in their devices...Galileo will be next.

Cellphones are great for navigation in Urban areas where you have the back up WiFi signals and stuff. Go out trekking in the woods, on your boat, or even country rambling on your bike...not so much.


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## badge118 (Dec 26, 2002)

SNS1938 said:


> Agreed. And for in-car GPS, soon enough all car radios will have GPS (or bluetooth and people will just use their cellphones through the radio). I have a 705, and the main reasons I use it sometimes over the iPhone strava app, are: 1) longer battery life (which phones are catching up on) and 2) it uploads automatically to strava.
> 
> Garmin need some innovation (their power pedals might help a while, but they'll not carry the cycling business) if they're going to be around in the future.


They have it. First if you are lucky to live in suburban, urbanville yeah cellphones work, if you want that monster on your bike. Battery life though...don't be GPSing on a phone with the screen on for more that say 3 hours without extra power...don't be riding in genuine rural areas. Don't be Mountain biking in real MTB areas (think Jim Thorpe vs Wissahickon park). They have lost share yeah but it is not doom and gloom.

Also I think people here are myopic. Garmin has seen what you all see and so is marketing much for heavily to sportsmen, boaters, have diversified by buying companies that sell GPS for Fido. Also you mentioned car infotainment systems? Garmin jumped in, has Suzuki on lockdown as the exclusive provider for them and has other car companies in the pipe line.

They are doing pretty much what people say they should be doing, people just don't know they are doing it.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

badge118 said:


> The GPS in cell phones...basically...well suck. It's wonderful when you are responding to a 911 call that used phase 2 (read GPS) to identify the location and you get "in a 1000 meter radius of location X".
> 
> Its one of the reasons they recommend you keep your cellphones WiFi on for more precise navigation...the phones will use public WiFi spots to help neaten things up. That doesn't work too well in rural areas though.
> 
> ...


When I used my android GPS, I regularly rode across lakes and even parts of the ocean. And through corn fields. :lol:


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## badge118 (Dec 26, 2002)

mpre53 said:


> When I used my android GPS, I regularly rode across lakes and even parts of the ocean. And through corn fields. :lol:


Yes I'm talking to early about accuracy I am not exaggerating when I say that on a 911 call a cell phone GPS can have such an issue that it has an accuracy of plus or minus 1000 meters. Now for some applications that is fine you're in the middle of the ocean who cares if you're on the cruise ship and you have a 1000 meter radius for other people accuracy is important so it all has to do with the use of your tool. For me accuracy in many circumstances is vitally important.


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## jjcools (Jun 28, 2011)

Yeah, a dedicated device is great for the constant monitoring and battery life. Also, with phones getting larger it almost helps Garmin...


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

It appears Garmin is staying with the team, but Sharp is not.

Garmin-Sharp set to reveal its new structure and title sponsors in August | Cyclingnews.com



> Ellis would not comment on the speculation that the team would merge with a segment of the current Cannondale team with the American bike brand rumoured to become the team’s title sponsor. However it is known that Sharp will cease sponsorship at the end of the year although Garmin will have a financial investment within the team.


However, I really don't get why Cervelo would want to go the MTN Qhubeka rather than Garmin. 



> Cervelo’s contract with the team runs out at the end of this year with the Canadian manufacturer linking up with the MTN team for 2015.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

love4himies said:


> However, I really don't get why Cervelo would want to go the MTN Qhubeka rather than Garmin.


Why do you assume it was their choice?


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

OldChipper said:


> This. Cell phone GPS sucks too much battery power and the chip isn't as reliable.


I use my phone in a ziploc in my back pocket with the screen off. After a four hour ride, battery goes down to about 70% (losing 30% of its power). I think that's plenty of power. 

Also, I ride with several guys that use Garmins and then post to Strava. At the end of our rides, our results may be off by a couple of tenths of a mile and maybe a tenth of an avg MPH, but it's pretty damned close and well within a margin of error. Not sure what you mean by "unreliable".



> I assume that like me, everyone else likes to see their speed, distance, % grade, power etc. *while* they're riding???


Actually, no. I own a cheap Cateye for this purpose but took it off of my bike year ago. I much prefer riding without any data.

IMO, the ultimate solution is Android Wear for this. The Rflkt is the right idea I think a standards-based solution like Wear is going to be the best. There's going to be a wide variety of Android Wear stuff by Christmas or certainly this time next year.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

asgelle said:


> Why do you assume it was their choice?


Good point. I had assumed with all the issues of teams finding sponsors, that a team would keep one rather than go out looking for a different one.


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## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

I hope the rumor of Sagan going to Tinkoff is not true and he stays with Cannondale. Peter, Talansky and Cannondale together would would wrap up all my rooting interests in one tidy package.


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## wanton007 (Mar 9, 2011)

I'll stick to my dedicated Garmin edge for a number of reasons:
1) battery life on phone 
2) leaving phone exposed on the bike to the elements (recently crashed and I'm pretty certain my phone would have bitten it) but the Garmin was okay. 
3) Garmin more accurate that my phone - did a ride with both the Edge and phone app (Strava) and went after a targetted segment. Got the KOM on my phone but not on the Garmin Edge. 27 seconds on phone vs 30 seconds on the Edge over a 300 meter sprint.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

Tinkoff pretty much confirmed that they have Sagan when interviewed on NBC Sports. He said they will be highly competitive not just for yellow but also for green jersey next year. Who else would he be talking about?


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## Gregon2wheels (May 7, 2013)

Hiro11 said:


> Also, I ride with several guys that use Garmins and then post to Strava. At the end of our rides, our results may be off by a couple of tenths of a mile and maybe a tenth of an avg MPH, but it's pretty damned close and well within a margin of error. Not sure what you mean by "unreliable".


On a straight road over about 3 miles, without a lot of tree cover, my dedicated GPS, my cycle computer, my phone, and Google Maps all agree with one another to within 0.01 miles, which is accurate enough for my purposes (< 1/2 mile per 100 miles). On a mountain bike ride with switchbacks, elevation change, tree cover, the phone is TERRIBLE. I don't know if the culprit was the app (Map My Ride) or the GPS, but between the auto on-off and the slow sampling rate, the phone's displayed mileage was ~ 90% of the dedicated GPS which matches published trail lengths over multiple trails to within 1/2 mile. Hardly a perfect measurement but the phone loses 1 miles in 10 on the trail.


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## Mr645 (Jun 14, 2013)

Phones are getting better. I used a GS II for a while and it worked, but sometimes the GPS would show me cutting through a lake or something. Now I have a Galaxy S5 Active and it's water proof, battery lasts 10+ hours running Strava (Screen off). Adding Map My Ride cuts it down to about 8 hours if I use the screen just from time to time to check turns. A small external battery can easily double this time and more. I ran the phone for 32 hours on a 600k ride with an external 6600mA battery and it was almost dead at the end. The GS5a also has much better GPS sensors. If I an riding on the road with a clear view of the sky I can go back and zoom in on there route and see when I swerved out of a bike lane to go around an obstruction. If I am riding with heavy tree cover, like on a trail, it can be less accurate, perhaps get me within 20-50 feet


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

55x11 said:


> Tinkoff pretty much confirmed that they have Sagan when interviewed on NBC Sports. He said they will be highly competitive not just for yellow but also for green jersey next year. Who else would he be talking about?


From what I've read, Tinkoff will pay pretty well for Sagan, it wouldn't surprise me at all that he's signed on with Saxo. I've also read that some Cannondale riders may be headed to Garmin, so maybe the Cannondale team is dismantling???


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## ParadigmDawg (Aug 2, 2012)

I am really just confused on what I should do being a Cervelo rider. Do I learn how to cry during races or do I change brands????????????????


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## bigjohnla (Mar 29, 2010)

PaxRomana said:


> Garmin is one iPhone app away from disaster.


Yep, I can see this happening. Digtal camera killed film cameras. Cell phones are killing them. just a matter of time.


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## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

bigjohnla said:


> Yep, I can see this happening. Digtal camera killed film cameras. Cell phones are killing them. just a matter of time.


Wrong. Not everyone wants their iphone mounted to their bike.


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## badge118 (Dec 26, 2002)

bigjohnla said:


> Yep, I can see this happening. Digtal camera killed film cameras. Cell phones are killing them. just a matter of time.


And the iPhone only has a majority share in the US that is slowly eroding...the rest of the world is Samsung land AND smart phones are not ubiquitous. If these kind of devices for cycling were truly on the way out we would have new companies bringing their own GPS enabled bike comps to the table. Why get into a dying market?

The market Garmin is losing in is the car nav market...not the sporting market atm.


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## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

T K said:


> Wrong. Not everyone wants their iphone mounted to their bike.


Not everyone wants an iPhone. Speaking as a family that owns no apple devices. Beware of the sheeple.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

I like my garmin but have accepted that it is only a matter of time before some _All in One _phone replaces it. 

The smart phone technology isn't there now but it will be soon enough. Why will people keep a device on their bike when the phone they own already does everything the device does? Eventually it will happen -- future smart phones w better gps chips will do everything the garmins do. Why would people pay for redundancy? 

The only way I can see Garmins staying competitive is a price drop. The price will have to get so low (<$100?) that people will pay for the convenience of not having to put their phone in the cockpit.


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## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

The day I roll up to the start line of a crit and everyone has smart phones mounted to their bikes will be the day I hang up my bibs. But, that's not going to happen so I'll keep riding using my "cycling" computer. I'd hate to see more crashes due to texting while racing.


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## badge118 (Dec 26, 2002)

Local Hero said:


> I like my garmin but have accepted that it is only a matter of time before some _All in One _phone replaces it.
> 
> The smart phone technology isn't there now but it will be soon enough. Why will people keep a device on their bike when the phone they own already does everything the device does? Eventually it will happen -- future smart phones w better gps chips will do everything the garmins do. Why would people pay for redundancy?
> 
> The only way I can see Garmins staying competitive is a price drop. The price will have to get so low (<$100?) that people will pay for the convenience of not having to put their phone in the cockpit.


A few reasons. 1 size...2 weather...3 crashes/bikes falling over etc...4 theft (stopping at the cafe) 5 the more functions you put into a phone the more battery it needs. 

Now at some point, in a number of years, the first 3 reasons many be dealt with for your "average" cell phone but they are a ways off yet imo. Even then you will still have a place for the devices for sometime for the real techie crowd (read power meters lovers). For the smart phone to totally do away with these devices you would need Garmin, SRM, Powertap etc to convert to making apps...companies like Polar to do away with proprietary protocols (they have their own GPS enabled bike computer coming out) etc.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Those are good points. 

#1 is a preference. I like a smaller device but some like huge 810s (which are the size of my cell phone). 

But I think reasons 2 & 3 could be dealt with soon enough, my friend's galaxy is water and shock resistant. That said, phones are currently fragile. I've seen too many cracked screens to mention. I don't see reason 4 being a big hurdle -- who goes anywhere (even into a café) without their phone? And 5 is a technological/engineering hurdle, much like the limitations on cell phone gps. 

#s 2,3 and 5 are current issues that could be overcome. If they are fixed -- if smart phones become more weather resistant, shock resistant, and have better GPS/battery abilities, could you see them displacing garmins?


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

FWIW, I've had ~ dozen Garmin GPSs (bike, car, boat, aircraft) and the GPS in my cellphone beats them all in speed and accuracy (except for boat differential GPS), receiving both GPS and GLONASS satellites (like some of the newest Edge units). My phone also talks ANT+ and BTLE. The only thing better about an Edge is the battery life. In all other respects they suck compared to the phone.


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## bigjohnla (Mar 29, 2010)

T K said:


> Wrong. Not everyone wants their iphone mounted to their bike.


I didn't say I wanted Garmin to go away. I don't particularly care to have my phone on the bars either. I have a Garmin 200 it works great and I have no intention of switching to an Iphone app. Might upgrade to a better garmin. But, I was just don't see dedicated GPS units hanging in there. No matter how dedicated some users are, they have to sell more products all the time to make money. A really bang up phone designed for cycling would be a hit and would hurt Garmin. Heck I know some folks are using them now.


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## emsf5 (Jun 2, 2008)

Cervelo opted out because Slipstream and co. Asked for $20 million along with frames. Way more than they were willing to pay. MQ not being world tour gives them less of a financial commitment.


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## badge118 (Dec 26, 2002)

looigi said:


> FWIW, I've had ~ dozen Garmin GPSs (bike, car, boat, aircraft) and the GPS in my cellphone beats them all in speed and accuracy (except for boat differential GPS), receiving both GPS and GLONASS satellites (like some of the newest Edge units). My phone also talks ANT+ and BTLE. The only thing better about an Edge is the battery life. In all other respects they suck compared to the phone.


Yes my phone has ANT but without the right app getting something from an ANT power meter would be difficult at best. That is why I said that for the high end athlete it would take the power meter companies to go from making their own head units (in the case of Polar proprietary transmission protocols) to allow cell phones to do a complete take over.

Also have to done a ride in "no mans land" for lack of a better term. Cell Phone GPS is not based entirely on the GPS chips. They also double and triple check via cell tower and Wi-Fi (which is why many phones will ask you to turn on Wi-Fi if you have it off for better accuracy). If you have roaming blocked (as many do) and you enter your providers "no mans land" and have no nearby WiFi you will see accuracy drop.

Now your phone with GPS and GLONASS won't have as big an issue because of having access to two different systems. I think your phone is the exception and not the rule in this particular case though.

In the end though it is size, durability, weather proofing, screen quality and battery life that are the biggest hurdles. Also trying to address battery life is creating another issue. Many of the methods of addressing display energy usage (the biggest drain for a power user) result in screens that don't do well in bright direct sunlight.

One day all of these issues will be corrected, but it will require cell phone makers to go away from where they are going. Even Apple's next phone is going to be bigger for more screen size...not Note big but bigger all the same. I don't know about you but I would rather spend the extra money and have a smaller, blue tooth enabled, more durable, longer battery life with persistent display, head unit on my bike talking to the blacked out cell phone in my pocket than the double sized, less durable, battery draining cell phone.

/shrug


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

emsf5 said:


> Cervelo opted out because Slipstream and co. Asked for $20 million along with frames. Way more than they were willing to pay. MQ not being world tour gives them less of a financial commitment.


eeks, that's a big ask. I wonder what Cannondale is doing for them, then.


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## badge118 (Dec 26, 2002)

love4himies said:


> eeks, that's a big ask. I wonder what Cannondale is doing for them, then.


Well I think Garmin expects a similar deal as to what Specialized and Merida do supply the bikes AND back up a truck full of money. Merida threw so much money at Lampre for the deal it made sense to break their contract with Wilier and pay em off.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

badge118 said:


> ...Also have to done a ride in "no mans land" for lack of a better term. Cell Phone GPS is not based entirely on the GPS chips. They also double and triple check via cell tower and Wi-Fi (which is why many phones will ask you to turn on Wi-Fi if you have it off for better accuracy). If you have roaming blocked (as many do) and you enter your providers "no mans land" and have no nearby WiFi you will see accuracy drop...


Kinda of digressing from the OP topic. Anyway... I'm not saying it isn't true, but I've never seen this with my previous iPhones or current Android phones riding in the Rockies, Sierra, etc. in areas with no cell coverage. Satellite acquisition takes seconds and position accuracy is typically 20' and better discriminating between which side of the road I'm on. Using cell towers for location predated the common adoption of GPS receivers in phone. It could still be factored in, but a good design would weigh its inclusion so as to improve rather than degrade performance, which should make it better than a GPS alone receiver.

I'm also not arguing which is better overall, Garmins Edges or phones, but rather that in my experience with both, GPS performance hasn't favored the Edges.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Well, Garmin Sharp will now be known as Team Cannondale. 

Garmin-Sharp and Cannondale join forces for 2015 | Cyclingnews.com


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

Great! Now I have to buy a new jersey.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

jlandry said:


> Great! Now I have to buy a new jersey.


Well, I've always like JV's taste, so hopefully the green argyle will be as nice as the blue. Glad I got the blue one from this year (won it from Garmin-Sharp )


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## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

love4himies said:


> Well, Garmin Sharp will now be known as Team Cannondale.
> 
> Garmin-Sharp and Cannondale join forces for 2015 | Cyclingnews.com


That's funny. Wasn't team Cannondale already known as team Cannondale?


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

T K said:


> That's funny. Wasn't team Cannondale already known as team Cannondale?


I know, I'm almost in mourning about loosing Garmin except they haven't gone anywhere.


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## Diopena1 (Jul 21, 2011)

LMAO @ Sheeple!!!!

Well, as an Apple user, I guess I'm one of them Sheep. However.... I have to admit that I work on Windows problems all day for work, OSX, iOs, just work. Microsoft has failed me a few times, and I do use them consistently for work, but my Apple products just work without fuss. 
Android... I like it, had it, but it got too buggy too soon, needed a stable platform to work with, enter the iPhone, and haven't had issues related to the software I use for work since. 
As a Computer/Gadget guy, I say use what works for you... In the end, you're the user, and whatever you buy should meet your needs.

As for Garmin.... many swear by them (they are nice), but for the price you can do better, and with the current app development trend, pretty soon smartphones will be the demise of many other pieces of personal electronic equipment out there. 

I confess!!!.... I'm an Apple, Linux, Windows user. You never know which side of the fence is greener, until you try it for yourself..... So, as a sheep, I like the grass on the apple side a little bit more 



crit_boy said:


> Not everyone wants an iPhone. Speaking as a family that owns no apple devices. Beware of the sheeple.


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