# Constant Cramping Problem



## b00001 (Dec 26, 2008)

Hello all! I am 37 years old, have been riding for almost 20 years. I have done lots of races, road, crit and mostly mountain. My heart, lungs, muscles are plenty strong, but I have problems (major problems) cramping. I can hammer as hard as my body can go for about 2 hours. Once I cross the 2 hour mark (sometimes only 1.5 if really hard) and I go to stand for a climb, I feel that telling little twinge in my quad. It always starts either left or right the muscle right above the knee towards the inside of the quad. 

I have tried almost every cramp product out there, I hydrate more than enough so I know it is not dehydration. I spoke to Chris Carmichael on it briefly and he said "supplements are your friend" He said it was a common problem and that I would have to find a mix that worked for me.

I know training also adapts the body to increase its lactic threshold, but there was a time I was putting in 200 miles per week for a couple months and still, during a race, a little past 2 hours, I would go to crank up a hill and BAM! I was locked up. I recently did a marathon mtn bike race and at about 25 miles in, I had to stop, fall off the bike because my legs were so locked up and lay down in the grass for about 5 mins. Cramps went away enough that I could spin easily but as soon as I tried to put some power down, I was cramped again. 

So, do I continue with the search for suppliments? I have tried everything from bananas, hydration drink mixes, magnesium, potassium supplements, hammer nutrition supplements, etc. This has been my only problem as long as I have been riding and I feel that if I could find a solution to this, I would break through this ceiling I have had over me for so long.

Any help appreciated! 
Thanks!


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

That sounds like something that's out of the realm of normal. You should go to a doc and get some bloodwork done.

Other than that, it's possible that the supplements you've tried don't contain very much of the main electrolytes you need to replace- plain old salt will do that. Try downing a salt tab or two before your next hard ride.


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## framesti (Jan 26, 2009)

I have this problem if I'm pushing 2 hard. Do you have this problem because u're pushing too hard?


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## towerscum (Mar 3, 2006)

*me too*

I will cramp if I don't train properly. I would,and still,get them on the inside of my thighs and on the top just above the knee in that large wad of muscle. On the worst of days,upper arms and lower back cry out also.What works for me is working on the early season training a little longer,base type stuff. I don't really follow a program like I should. But, it does make a differance if I keep it up during the winter and work more on the causes earlier in the season. In my case that would be hard,big gear efforts when seated. Also,I find that heavy hydration a day or two before a long ride or race doesn't cut it. I need to be watered up for a at least a week before hand. That,teamed up with all the drinks and pills work for me...most of the time. I hate cramps.


towerscum


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## function (Jun 20, 2008)

1.5-2hr and going hard seems somewhat tied to glycogen stores although i can't see the connection, but cramping is a poorly understood phenomena. How is your fueling? Have you tried eating something like an energy bar at the 1hr mark?


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## dickey (Jan 15, 2008)

Are you possibly drinking to much? This can be a problem. have yo uchanges any thing like shoes or position?


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## leon2982 (May 20, 2007)

*bio-available calcium*

Bio-available calcium pretty-much does the trick for me. If I'm going to hammer I'll take one 500mg calcium citrate the night before, one in the morning, one in the middle of the ride, and one when I get done. Has made a world of difference for me.


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## kenhoeve (Jul 10, 2007)

I would encourage you to get a physical and have bloodwork done.

Meanwhile, keep trying supplements. On super, super, hard rides I need to take a salt tablet every 1.5 hours or I will cramp. Calcium is another biggie. The other trace elements, of course.


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## b00001 (Dec 26, 2008)

This forum is awesome! Thank you folks soooo much!!!!

I had blood work done last year, Dr said everything was normal.

I know that if I have a real good base the cramping does not come as fast. The best I have been able to do base wise was right at 200 miles a week for about a month and a half. If I need more of a base than that, I am screwed. HA!

glycogen stores-I had thought of that briefly. I have tried to consume many different foods during my hard rides and races. Fig bars, power bars, cliff bars, cliff blocks, gu/gel packs even peanut butter sandwiches. None have done anything for the cramps.

Possibly drinking too much? I have thought about that one as well. For a few rides, I purposely tried not to drink as much as I normally would. No effect at all on cramps.

I know my body must be deficient in something or maybe it uses something up way faster than normal. Not sure if it is calcium. I drink tons of milk. 1.5-2 gals per week. Do you think I would need the calcium citrate drinking that much milk? I will try it!!

A long time racer friend of mine just turned me on to magnesium and Vit E tabs. I am working on that combo now. Will keep you all posted. Another friend told me about a product called Nuuns. He had similar problems and as soon as he felt that tingle, he would take a tab and it would immediately go away. I will try these as well.

Thank you all again!!!!!


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

Check your cleats. 

I was having the same problem and finally I went to adjust my cleats. I found one of the screws had fallen out and my foot position was slightly off... thus causing my QUAD to cramp. Such a little thing like cleat position had a huge impact. Since I repositioned the cleat everything has been great. I have two centuries under my belt since then and no problem.


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## b00001 (Dec 26, 2008)

Dajianshan said:


> Check your cleats.
> 
> I was having the same problem and finally I went to adjust my cleats. I found one of the screws had fallen out and my foot position was slightly off... thus causing my QUAD to cramp. Such a little thing like cleat position had a huge impact. Since I repositioned the cleat everything has been great. I have two centuries under my belt since then and no problem.


Thanks! I have done that. I moved cleats forward, back, left, right multiple times. Same with saddle-up, down, forward, back. Cranks, started 170, then 172.5 then 175 now back to 170. The 170 are def the best. The cramping is not specific to the road bike. I cramp on the Mtn bike as well. 

I hate having to take different supplements to try to find something that works, but that seems like what may be needed.


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## LCFrecrider (Jan 4, 2006)

I have the same issue, though not quite as severe. I get cramps just about every road race -- anything very hard for more than 2-3 hours with no coasting/breaks. I have tried it all -- elite, s-caps, hammer-caps, Sportenine, etc. The best I can do is start with lots of water and salts 1-2 days before the race. 

Recently, somebody mentioned calcium/magnesium to me. Currently, I am trying calcium supplements and Hammer multi-Vs which have a lot of B, E, and Mag. My blood work is normal. The calcium thing makes some sense to me because my diet includes very little dairy.

Recently, I have gotten into eating small red potatoes on the bike. They go down easy and are a high-GI source of carbs.

Good luck...


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## pdh777 (Oct 7, 2005)

How about flexability?

You can very easily cramp if your muscles are too tight


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## sokudo (Dec 22, 2007)

Add raisins, dried appricots or similar (dates, figs) in quantity to your diet. Keep on eating them while riding.
Add 1 g of Vitamin C per 0.75 liter bottle to your water.


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## kenhoeve (Jul 10, 2007)

Couple more things, keep track of your heart-rate, if it is sub-dued you are not clearing waste efficiently. This can be a sign of over-training. You could possibly need a couple months of complete rest. Rest might be the only thing you haven't tried.


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## b00001 (Dec 26, 2008)

Again, thanks all for the tips. I always include rest while training. A couple years ago, I did take 2-3 months totally off. When I began my training again and had my first race back, cramps were still prevalent.

As far as flexibility, there may be something there. I would not say I am real flexible. I cannot touch my toes although I can just about get to my ankles.

I have seen people eating raisins on rides. Unfortunately, I cannot stand their taste.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

It seems like your fitness and eating are fine. Try salt.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

Actually I'm a cramper as well. Number one suppliments don't do didly squat to keep cramps at bay, so don't waste your money chasing after the magical pill. 

You're right your base miles aren't enough, but you high intensity training probably isn't intense enough either. 

It's the really high intensity racing conditions that bring on the cramps and this is usually the result of unfit legs. Now by anyones standards you're probably in great shape. 

When I'm getting in shape for racing I average 400+ miles a week. I was averaging 80miles a day leading up to the state championships this last year and I had some nightmarish cramps the last 5 miles of the race that caused me to get dropped and take 11th place. 

The problem from what I can tell is during a really fast and furious race like the state championships or nationals everyone is knuckled down and trying to kill one another. You can't take on your carbo drinks and fuel when your in the drops for 2+ hours hammering as hard as possible. The leg muscles only store so much energy until it sends a signal that it's running low and your body decides to shut you down. 

So while I think it's a good idea to take on your vitamins, calcium, magnesium, and anything else that doesn't pose a health risk to you I also think you need to bump up your training. 

I still say if you cramp at 2 hours, you need to push past that 2 and make it 3 hours, turn 3 into 4 hours, 5 into 6 hours and you keep building. It was only when I truely pummeled my body into the ground that I broke the cramp cycle, that is until the really tough races and then I just prayed my legs will hold out. 

Some of us are cursed with cramps, some guys can ride 24 hours straight and never have a problem.

As a side note one of my friends went pro this last year and his off season training is 75 miles in the morning and 75 miles in the evening.....every single day. And he's my states champion in TT, RR, CRIT.


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## TeamCholent (Apr 20, 2005)

*I can get cramping on my inner thigh*

I have run into a similar issue. It is not an everyday event but I am aware of the onset which can usually happen during a climb (not a good time).

What I get can be called "Tailors Cramp". It affects tailors when they keep a leg bent over the opposite knee while they work.
It USUALLY affects the sartorius muscle, which is the longest muscle in the body, buried in the quad. This goes from the knee up to the hip.

This link explains and shows a good image of it.
http://anatomynotes.blogspot.com/2006/02/my-favorite-muscle.html

I do about 8000 miles a year, I can get it after or during a very hard effort or long easier ride.
The doctors and PT have suggested stretching the inner thighs.
The problem is that it is almost immpossible to isolate this ONE muscle.
Some cyclists have attributed it to fatigue of the Hip flexor, I think that's most of it. The hips do alot of work and when they give out the smaller muscles kick in.
It may also pop up if I am laying in bed with a leg in a 90 degree angle.

SOOOO, what have I found to resolve the problem? 
Well, what I do know is that it can occur during climbs, so If I feel it coming I try to stand and work it out by pushing my heel down more and spin less and go to a harder gear.
If needed I may have to unclip and walk a 20 yards then restart (I've done this perhaps 3 times in the last 2 years).
I've added more hip specific excersice in the gym and more fluids especially 24 hours before the ride.


Good Luck
Rob


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

I've had cramps my whole life not just cycling. I use to play indoor soccer a lot, sometimes as much as 6 hours a day on the weekends in highschool. 

I'd have to have my friend stop the car several times on the hour long drive back home to get out of the car to work the cramps out of my legs. 

I still sleep with an impact messager in my bed to work cramps out that start up in the middle of my sleep. 

This is why I don't think it's just related to a lack of some sort of mineral or glycogen stores being depleated, because I'm stuffing my face before I go to bed with plenty of carbs. 

I have asthma and suffered from cramps as a child, my mom use to have to tie socks around my legs at night to stop the cramps, doctors thought it could have been related to food alergies and of course I grew out of that.

Honestly cycling is the worst sport on earth for those of us that cramp. 

My advice would be to keep a journal and try everything you can think of. Drinking, eating, vitamins, minerals, and then start looking at your training, gear....ect.


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## sokudo (Dec 22, 2007)

b00001 said:


> I have seen people eating raisins on rides. Unfortunately, I cannot stand their taste.


Try a different brand or type fo raisins. I can't stand some of them either. Or, even beter, eat dried apricots instead. Figs and dates work too. They all quickly restore potassium.

While cruel, the phrase "taste or crumps" sounds about right.
Consider an experiment: when your cramps start, eat 50-100g of good dried apricots or raisins and see what happens.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

It may be what someone suggested...drinking too much. I had some cramping issues and was going into a 12hr TT, so I called the Hammer people for some suggestions. Had an interesting talk with one of them who suggested some "guidelines" after hearing all my particulars. Very much less fluid intake than I had been doing...with the reasoning being that too much fluid intake can cause your electrolyte balance to be 'diluted'.. That made a bit of sense, so I tried a few training rides where I limited my fluid to one bottle per hour and it seemed to work. One bottle and 4 endurolyte caps, with Heed as my energy source along with some Perpeteum..

During the 12 hr TT (Ring of Fire TT) it was brutally hot and I did cramp anyway at about 11 hrs with 15k ' of climbing...But I've since 'refined' my fluid intake and I can now avoid cramps and headaches for the most part.

Worth a try to look at what those Hammer folks recommend..They have some research to back up what they say. Disclaimer: Not a Hammer guy myself, but I've used their stuff with some success at the Everest Challenge and some Ultra TTs in Oregon.

Don Hanson


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## jaan_k (Apr 28, 2007)

*blood work not optimal; also look at calories*

With regards to calcium and magnesium, blood work will tell you very little. For example, regarding magnesium, serum levels typically account for only about 1% its total content in the body.....and this can vary depending upon the time of day the sample was taken or even how the blood was drawn. For a better representation of mineral content in the body I would go with a hair analysis.

That being said, I USED TO cramp big time! I tried everything...well almost. I was really becoming interested in the concept of muscle fatigue and its relation to cramping. I deduced the reason I was cramping was a lack of calories. I tried eating consistently on rides, but that helped only a little...plus I bloated easily. Spoke to Frankie Andreu (ex-US Postie) one day and he mentioned OS Performance Nutritionals. The idea was that it was a product which could deliver loads of calories at the correct osmolality (osmotic concentration) for optimal absorption. Tried it and never looked back. Hey, at 400 calories per 24 oz. water bottle, I'm certainly not lacking calories and I've NEVER felt bloated. The staff was great at answering my questions and even suggested when and how to utilize calcium and magnesium supplementation. The combo proved the answer for me. In case you're wondering, the calcium/magnesium alone was not enough to fix the cramping.

Good luck.


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## dickey (Jan 15, 2008)

there are five parts http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/11/muscle-cramps-part-1-theories-and.html


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