# The dopers you know



## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Another amature cyclist that just couldn't resist cheating to win.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/us-masters-champion-suspended-for-steroid

I must say having raced aginst Pete most of the 09 season this affects me in so much as I actually would have finished higher in the money in a few races that he either won or placed in including one that my team mate would have won and I finsihed 4th in. He basicly beat the snot out of both of us in a break, I remember riding in that break on his wheel going just as hard as when I was pulling - like LT+ alot. I think in reality Pete was natually a better cyclist than I was and could have beaten me with out cheating which makes him an even sadder figure. 

The annoying thing about him was that he was so arrogent about how much stronger than you he was, pointing out how he would play with people in races before finally breaking away to win solo. He even went so far as to point out how much faster his time was at the state TT in his blog even tho he actually finished second in his age group and I had won mine. All in all that attitude just makes me wonder how could you take such pleasure in gloating knowing it was all based on a lie?


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

Inside the rough, tough exterior of a guy like that lives a very frightened, small, and douchey child.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

What a scumbag.


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## thighmaster (Feb 2, 2006)

Funny, all the ones I know are masters racers. No wonder I keep my steady progress dwon the ladder.


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## Gatorback (Jul 11, 2009)

pretender said:


> Inside the rough, tough exterior of a guy like that lives a very frightened, small, and douchey child.



You got it, and I would say "insecurity" is another good word. Belittling your fellow competitors seems wrong at any level of sport. That goes beyond cheating and shows some real underlying personality issues. 

Sometimes I feel bad for people like that--I always wonder what it is from someone's background that caused them to be that way. We should all remember to teach the importance of sportsmanship to young athletes.


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## peter584 (Aug 17, 2008)

All he has to do is turn someone else in and you'll be racing him again shortly.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

peter584 said:


> All he has to do is turn someone else in and you'll be racing him again shortly.



If he had someone to turn in that was worthwhile and he was willing to pay back the money he took of me and the other people he raced aginst Im not so sure I would have an issue with that.But somehow I doubt he is the kind of guy that could take racing without his edge.


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## Tight Nipples (Feb 18, 2011)

Maybe this is just a witch hunt. What if what I hear about rampant doping in the masters is actually be true? Would that make it an "even playing field." And if so the only question remaining is whether you can say about this guy, "He's done a lot of good for a lot of people." Right?


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Tight Nipples said:


> And if so the only question remaining is whether you can say about this guy, "He's done a lot of good for a lot of people." Right?



Not really in this context the fact that he has or has not "done people alot of good" dosen't apply. I don't really care about him beyond my interactions racing with him, I have no desire to see him lose anything other than his results and his right to race.

Course I would like the extra prize money and I would have liked to enjoy having my team mate win that race because we both worked really hard to make and drive the break. Im sure the guys he beat at nationals would have liked to wear their jerseys for a year. These are not major things really but he did deprive people of things.


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## tbgtbg (Mar 13, 2009)

pretender said:


> Inside the rough, tough exterior of a guy like that lives a very frightened, small, and douchey child.


Nah, a person like that rationalizes all his actions, believing he is doing nothing wrong. Doesn't make him any less a scumbag though....


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## Gatorback (Jul 11, 2009)

I did a google search on the drug at issue, as identified in the velonews article, and the third result was the following site:

http://www.steroid.com/Masteron.php

This looks to be not only a site selling steroids, but also how to instructions. 

Are steroids without a prescription really that easy to acquire? You can get them mail order with your credit card? 

It seems hard to believe a business could so blatantly flaunt the law and not get shut down.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

Well this just supports what I've been observing for the past few years in the masters. 

When i turned 35 I was kind of excited to start racing the masters, now that I'm 37 I look around at every race and know that there's too many guys that have too much money to spend on these PED and they'll do whatever it takes to win contests. 

I'm convinced that the masters might be as bad as the pros right now only because there's no real testing, there's no budget for testing. I've never seen a winner get called out for testing at any of my races.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Gatorback said:


> I did a google search on the drug at issue, as identified in the velonews article, and the third result was the following site:
> 
> http://www.steroid.com/Masteron.php
> 
> ...


Is pot easy to obtain? How about crack? Cocaine?

If you want to get steroids, you can get them.

Where is the company set up? Who hosts the website? Are they shipping them from overseas? If so, will they get caught in customs? This doesn't really seem that hard to believe. Obtaining steroids and other PEDS in the US isn't really that hard.

Meanwhile, I am disappointed that Pete would do something like this, but I am not shocked by it at all. For some reason, it seems like the best riders are always the ones that do it. Pete was in my area for quite a while and I only interacted with him via e-mail and through a couple of his friends. Never really had the pleasure, or displeasure, of racing against him because I was just getting back into racing as he was leaving for NC.

Arrogance is a real turn off. Hopefully, this experience will be somewhat humbling for him, especially since he is a coach.

We had another really good Masters racer get busted in this area around 2005. I cannot remember his name at the moment. Ah, David Fuentes.

http://www.usada.org/files/active/arbitration_rulings/Fuentes%20AAA%20Decision%20&%20Award.pdf

The insane thing is that I think both Fuentes and Cannell would have been fast without the juice. That is what is really sad. They just wouldn't have been super fast all the time and they might not have won as many races, but they still would have done really well.

There was even another guy at Masters track nationals that got busted 2 or 3 years ago.

http://masterstrack.com/2009/11/2121/

You really have to stop and wonder about how many other amatuer racers are doing it that aren't racing at nationals and will never get caught as a result.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

Tight Nipples said:


> Maybe this is just a witch hunt. What if what I hear about rampant doping in the masters is actually be true? Would that make it an "even playing field." And if so the only question remaining is whether you can say about this guy, "He's done a lot of good for a lot of people." Right?


You forgot the [SARCASM] and [/SARCASM] around your post, so it may have been misinterpreted by some. Still, well-played, sir.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

Gatorback said:


> I did a google search on the drug at issue, as identified in the velonews article, and the third result was the following site:
> 
> http://www.steroid.com/Masteron.php
> 
> ...


Steroids are easier than that to get. Hang out at a real jock gym that is attached to college sports and you'll get hooked up once the locals trust you. 

As far as ordering online from foreign sources I wouldn't do that. Too much fake stuff coming out of China and India these days.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

heathb said:


> Well this just supports what I've been observing for the past few years in the masters.
> 
> When i turned 35 I was kind of excited to start racing the masters, now that I'm 37 I look around at every race and know that there's too many guys that have too much money to spend on these PED and they'll do whatever it takes to win contests.
> 
> I'm convinced that the masters might be as bad as the pros right now only because there's no real testing, there's no budget for testing. I've never seen a winner get called out for testing at any of my races.


They aren't going to get called out for testing unless it is a national level race. We brought this issue up in this area (MABRA), about collecting a couple extra bucks from each race for the year to have random testing done at two races during the year, and it was shot down because 1) it was only two races and 2) it would only test the top 3 or 5 of a certain category. Personally, I thought it was a good idea. Oh well. Maybe one day the sponsors of our sport, like the bike manufacturers, component manufacturers, etc. will pony up some money for testing to make our sport cleaner at the amateur level, where this sort of culture sets in. Right now, I cannot even bring myself to watch pro cycling on TV anymore.

I got back into racing at age 35 in 2006, and within 3 years I pretty much lost my appetite for it. The possibility of doping was one issue, along with the complete lack of respect for one another. Doping is a part of that respect. But there was so much more involved with it. The ironic thing is that it was really easy to place in the Cat 5 & 4 races. Even placed 6th in a 3/4 race with 100 riders in it. Then there were the wrecks from people that just had to push it through a corner or that had to jockey for position, for what, $50 in prize money and bragging rights? Got to see a junior in my last race get his face sliced open by a chainring and require 70 stitches. In the 3 years back racing, that was the first time I went down. We continued racing, with guys attacking off the front, while this kid was laying in the road right after turn one with a Ford Explorer parked behind him to protect him from us. Everytime we came around that corner, I was wondering who was protecting me from the Ford Explorer. I got 3rd in that race, and then that was the end of it for me. I was thinking about racing again this year, but I think this about Cannell seals the deal for me. Group rides with close friends, and that will be enough for me. Maybe when I am in my 60's and men are wiser and have something more to live for I'll get back to racing as a pass time.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

fabsroman said:


> They aren't going to get called out for testing unless it is a national level race. We brought this issue up in this area (MABRA), about collecting a couple extra bucks from each race for the year to have random testing done at two races during the year, and it was shot down because 1) it was only two races and 2) it would only test the top 3 or 5 of a certain category. Personally, I thought it was a good idea. Oh well. Maybe one day the sponsors of our sport, like the bike manufacturers, component manufacturers, etc. will pony up some money for testing to make our sport cleaner at the amateur level, where this sort of culture sets in. Right now, I cannot even bring myself to watch pro cycling on TV anymore.


The cost of a PED test is typically around $250 a pop. That's expensive to say the least for local races, but I agree the cost could be covered if they added say $5-10 to our entry fees, which I would be more than glad to pay. 

Maybe they could at least get a drug panel narrowed down to HGH, T, Steroids and call it done. That might drop the cost a bit.

Then it's just a matter of finding neutral people that have no ties to the racers who would be willing to collect chain of custody split urine samples. I can't trust our race organizers because those guys are the very people that are beer buddies with the racers that I suspect are using.


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## Gatorback (Jul 11, 2009)

I'm just surprised there is essentially an online pharmacy. Obviously recreational drugs are easy to obtain, and frankly I think that will always be true as long as there is a demand for them. Law enforcement can't possibly even make a large dent it that market. And certainly you can get PEDs by talking to the right guys at a local meathead gym. But I was kind of surprised to see a sophisticated online site set up for credit card mail purchases. It seems to take the "underground" nature of the illegal drug world and make it much more open and sophisticated--and maybe more palatable for well off middle-aged dudes racing bikes.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

heathb said:


> The cost of a PED test is typically around $250 a pop. That's expensive to say the least for local races, but I agree the cost could be covered if they added say $5-10 to our entry fees, which I would be more than glad to pay.
> 
> Maybe they could at least get a drug panel narrowed down to HGH, T, Steroids and call it done. That might drop the cost a bit.
> 
> Then it's just a matter of finding neutral people that have no ties to the racers who would be willing to collect chain of custody split urine samples. I can't trust our race organizers because those guys are the very people that are beer buddies with the racers that I suspect are using.


If they don't do it at every event and only test a couple of guys randomly here and there, it wouldn't be that expensive and it might just get a lot more guys off the juice, or at least make some of the guys on the juice think twice about attacking.

Maybe just have a yellow or orange van for the testing and have it show up at a couple of races without any testing being done. See how many people DNS. Then, have it show up at a couple of races and actually do the testing. I would really love to see the DNS list when the testing van is present. I think that in itself would reveal a lot.


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

So I guess he's a lot like the motorcyclists that gun the engine and rip by me like they are proving something when they pass my human powered bike.


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## thighmaster (Feb 2, 2006)

Contador must shop there, as I see clenbuterol is on the list. Wonder if you can order it with or without beef.

Kind of scary to think what you might really be getting. I'm going with what the Gov of California used to take.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

fabsroman said:


> If they don't do it at every event and only test a couple of guys randomly here and there, it wouldn't be that expensive and it might just get a lot more guys off the juice, or at least make some of the guys on the juice think twice about attacking.
> 
> Maybe just have a yellow or orange van for the testing and have it show up at a couple of races without any testing being done. See how many people DNS. Then, have it show up at a couple of races and actually do the testing. I would really love to see the DNS list when the testing van is present. I think that in itself would reveal a lot.


That would be hilarious. Perhaps start the race up and then towards the end of the race announce over the bull horn that all racers are to report for drug testing. Watch the DNF's veer off course, run to their cars, pack their crap up quick and split.

What a dream come true this would be, but I don't think the race organizers around here would want to upset their buddies.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

heathb said:


> That would be hilarious. Perhaps start the race up and then towards the end of the race announce over the bull horn that all racers are to report for drug testing. Watch the DNF's veer off course, run to their cars, pack their crap up quick and split.
> 
> What a dream come true this would be, but I don't think the race organizers around here would want to upset their buddies.


That post was hilarious.

Yep, the problem with the racing community is that it is so small that everybody knows everybody in the area. The officials are usually racers themselves, or members of teams.

However, as advocates of this sport, we should all be advocating for a clean sport. One that I don't have to worry about letting my kids participate in. Then again, I think that would pretty much include all sports nowadays.


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## jjmstang (May 8, 2009)

fabsroman said:


> Maybe just have a yellow or orange van for the testing and have it show up at a couple of races without any testing being done. See how many people DNS. Then, have it show up at a couple of races and actually do the testing. I would really love to see the DNS list when the testing van is present. I think that in itself would reveal a lot.


This did happen in '10 or '09 down in NC I believe the state was and a very large contingent of the masters field were DNS due to the Control Van.
Some say they just want results taken away, not me. Break his effing knees and I hope the POS looses everything and ends up in jail being Bubbas beyotch.

Dopers Suck

-John

ps..Hey Fabs did that douche contact you off list about your TT helmet yet ?


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

jjmstang said:


> This did happen in '10 or '09 down in NC I believe the state was and a very large contingent of the masters field were DNS due to the Control Van.
> Some say they just want results taken away, not me. Break his effing knees and I hope the POS looses everything and ends up in jail being Bubbas beyotch.
> 
> Dopers Suck
> ...


Just utterly sad that there was a huge number of DNS at that race where the control van showed up. They should keep stats of this stuff to get an idea of just how many masters might be doping.

Nope. No contact off list yet and I really don't expect any. My e-mail and text last season asking for it back, so I could do a TT or two just to evaluate my fitness, went unanswered. He literally lived 2 miles down the road from me, maybe 3 at the most. Utterly incredible. For some reason, I always get burned when I loan things out. I learn my lesson for about 5 years, and then do it again like an idiot. Just came up with a bright idea. Collateral for the next time.

I'll probably buy a Giro TT helmet this year and do a TT or two just to evaulate my own fitness and set some personal goals. There is one TT in Carlysle, PA that I really like. I cannot see me racing in pack races anytime soon because all this doping stuff makes me wonder about the results and why I even want to bother competing anymore, and then reading about all the crashing doesn't make it any better either. What sucks the most about it is that one of my siblings gave my daughter a folding chair for her last birthday, and she keeps telling me that she wants to bring it to my races so she can watch me.

Might do a ride or two with you guys down in the DC area this year.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

fabsroman said:


> Just utterly sad that there was a huge number of DNS at that race where the control van showed up. They should keep stats of this stuff to get an idea of just how many masters might be doping.
> 
> I'll probably buy a Giro TT helmet this year and do a TT or two just to evaulate my own fitness and set some personal goals. I cannot see me racing in pack races anytime soon because all this doping stuff makes me wonder about the results and why I even want to bother competing anymore, .


 You pretty much nailed my recent 'bike racing' feelings. 

Oh, BTW, just because you turn 60, don't expect everyone to automatically clean up and ride smart.. You will just get to start with the 'younger' Masters groups..and you can watch the 'weight lifter' types go skampering off the front, perhaps with a few enhanced racers from your own age category in tow. Then, you can go..."Am I really that much weaker than ______ all of a sudden, or is he/she taking something?" and of course, you will not know...

So, don the TT helmet and race the clock and your own previous times... Ignore your peers who suddenly drop a few whole minutes of their prior season's 40k TT time...They may have paid a lot of cash for those minutes...or maybe they just trained really really hard...who knows?


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## C6Rider (Nov 15, 2008)

*The fact that there is doping is sad....*

but this hits home...




fabsroman said:


> What sucks the most about it is that one of my siblings gave my daughter a folding chair for her last birthday, and she keeps telling me that she wants to bring it to my races so she can watch me.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Gnarly 928 said:


> and you can watch the 'weight lifter' types go skampering off the front, perhaps with a few enhanced racers from your own age category in tow.


Hey now...not all "Weight Lifter" types are doping...I very much fit into that category and can't lose the muscle mass regardless of what I do. I'm sure there are more than one rider that thinks I'm using some form of PED due to my size alone...but such is life  

On the bright side...I did drop below 190 pounds for the first time this season today


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Wookiebiker said:


> Hey now...not all "Weight Lifter" types are doping...I very much fit into that category and can't lose the muscle mass regardless of what I do. I'm sure there are more than one rider that thinks I'm using some form of PED due to my size alone...but such is life
> 
> On the bright side...I did drop below 190 pounds for the first time this season today


Yeah, I have been asked a couple of times if I was using dope, but never related to cycling. The last time I can remember it was the 2nd year out of college. I was working on an away audit at a southern Maryland college. We had to stay down there for 4 days out of the week and there was absolutely nothing to do down there. It was summer time and the kids had left for vacation. However, we got to use the school's gym for free. I had been big into lifting in college, but stopped while I was working two jobs and studying for the CPA exam. Anyway, I got back into it that summer. Ended up going to a CPE seminar with a bunch of my co-workers that summer and arrived ina short sleeve polo. One of my in-charge auditors from that winter asked me to talk to him in private. I thought it was going to be about work, and that is when he asked me if I was on the juice. At the time I was flattered. However, I guess I could have been insulted too. It just wasn't that hard to get ripped and muscular again with absolutely nothing to do in the evenings for 2+ months straight.

Nowadays, with cycling, if you do well, others will be questioning whether you dope. If you do poorly after training really hard, you have to sit there and scratch your head and wonder if the others are on the juice. It just sucks.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

C6Rider said:


> but this hits home...


Yep. Here are some pics from one of the last races I did in 2009. It was in April right after tax season and I had about 40 or 50 miles in at that point for the year, with no trainer work. On the way over to the race, I told my wife not to expect anything special and not to be surprised if I got dropped. Ended up getting 4th place. My teammates were even shocked. I was fried for the race the next day. June 6, 2009 was my last race. Wrecked, ended up getting 3rd, and then they redid the race. After that, I got sick with something the doctors could not figure out, but which I think was Lyme. Got some pretty good video of this race from BAS. My daughter just turned 2 and my wife was just shy of 9 months pregnant with our son. Now, my daughter has a Disney Princess folding chair like the ones in the pics, but kids size.

Just couldn't get motivated to race last year, and reading stuff like this just doesn't help with the motivation.


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## C6Rider (Nov 15, 2008)

*Thanks Fabs*



fabsroman said:


> Just couldn't get motivated to race last year, and reading stuff like this just doesn't help with the motivation.


Thanks for the post. These are stories that I like reading...considering the lack of training that you had put in, the 4th place was outstanding.


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

Tight Nipples said:


> Maybe this is just a witch hunt. What if what I hear about rampant doping in the masters is actually be true? Would that make it an "even playing field." And if so the only question remaining is whether you can say about this guy, "He's done a lot of good for a lot of people." Right?


Nice +1


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