# Zipp 404 vs. Zipp 808



## mudphalt (Sep 21, 2008)

Hi , just wondering what would be the pros and cons between the two wheel sizes. I'm looking at the clinchers with alum braking surface.. I know the 404's are lighter, but ???? What else should I consider in these.. also considering the Spinergy pbo wheels.. I rode a set of 808's and was impressed with their ride and performance, but dont know if I need such a hi profile ???? Thanks


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## Guest (Aug 20, 2009)

How often are you planning on riding them and what the terrain/wind like where you live?

Generally if I was going to ride them all the time, climb much or it was pretty windy I'd go for the 404's. The 808 is a nice wheel but I wouldn't want to roll around on them all the time.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

Any chance you want to go with something other than Zipp?
They are not nearly as nice as other wheels in their price range.


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## mudphalt (Sep 21, 2008)

Well I rode the 808's and they felt great ??? Wind is not usually too bad , heavy residential area, so tons of houses and trees... But I do want to use them regularly hence the alum brakeing surface.. I would also like to be able to race them in addition to training a bit with them.. So Maybe the 404's would be the better choice.. but in that case how about the spinergy pbo ""s... they are less than half the price and seem to offer all the same thing s ?? The zipps are out of my range right now, but I would start working toward s them, the spinergy's I could swing now via the almighty plastic .. LOL... What other options might I look at ??


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## C6Rider (Nov 15, 2008)

Check out Easton EC 90 Aero wheels. I was looking at Zipp 404s, but settled on the Eastons. For $1000 and 1335 grams, I thought they were a better deal.


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## mudphalt (Sep 21, 2008)

The only issues I have with that is that its' only tublular and it has a carbon braking surface.. I need.. the aluminum braking surface for durability and road worthyness, lots of pot holes and glass, etc...  So that leaves me with the spinergy or the zipps at this point.. I was originally thinking of just going with the DT swiss rr1.2 aero wheels, but dont know how much of a diff that will make over my mon chasserals. ??


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## footballcat (Jul 8, 2004)

you can get edge's


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2009)

mudphalt said:


> The only issues I have with that is that its' only tublular and it has a carbon braking surface.. I need.. the aluminum braking surface for durability and road worthyness, lots of pot holes and glass, etc... So that leaves me with the spinergy or the zipps at this point.. I was originally thinking of just going with the DT swiss rr1.2 aero wheels, but dont know how much of a diff that will make over my mon chasserals. ??



I wouldn't rule out some of the all carbon wheels, including clinchers, based on braking surface wear. And I'd put a set of Edge handbuilts up against Zipps any day with regards to durability.


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## mudphalt (Sep 21, 2008)

arent the full carbons suceptible to cracking when hitting pot holes and such ?? I know they are lighter , but I dont have the money to be replacing these often, I'll buy one set every 200 years if i' m lucky.. LOL..


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2009)

I don't think the Edge rims would be any more susceptible to that than the alloy/carbon zipps, maybe less so. In the past on other brands as people were just starting to make and learning to make carbon clinchers it was more of an issue.


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## mudphalt (Sep 21, 2008)

well then what about stopping power, From what I've read and heard the full carbon braking surface is not that great , and breaking performance is way better with the alum surface ?


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

mudphalt said:


> arent the full carbons suceptible to cracking when hitting pot holes and such ?? I know they are lighter , but I dont have the money to be replacing these often, I'll buy one set every 200 years if i' m lucky.. LOL..


\
Full carbon Zipps are prone to cracking. I weigh 190 and I built myself a nice set of Edge 68 clinchers. I have destroyed many wheels... Rolf Vigors, multiple Mavic Ksyriums, and Cosmic Carbones. The 68s are the stiffest and strongest wheels that I have ever owned. I have yet to put a wrench to the since the build. That is pretty impressive considering that I can trash just about anything. I have a couple of buddies in town that are starting to make carbon saddles and rims... Guess who they put on them for strength testing.

Edge rims light years ahead of Zipps in terms of technology being employed. 
Their rims are rated to higher tensions than Zipps. They build laterally stiffer because of it.
They cast their spoke holes in order to keep the flow of carbon continuous.
They use internal instead of external nips in order to reduce the size of spoke holes that hurt a rim's integrity.
They autoclave their carbon which uses less glue and more carbon. In order to stay competitive Zipp sands their rims down so much that they tend to crack.
Alloy clinchers being stronger than carbon ones is a myth made up by companies that do not want to spend the money developing a very advanced technology.


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## mudphalt (Sep 21, 2008)

My dealer said he will give me a trade up for the oem wheels from my new ride. So i'll see what that brings


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

mudphalt said:


> well then what about stopping power, From what I've read and heard the full carbon braking surface is not that great , and breaking performance is way better with the alum surface ?


With yellows its pretty damn good. I ride in the mountains of Boulder in all conditions and they work fine, I even use Reynolds pads. There is a noticeable difference in performance but its in no way the disparity that was present 5 years ago.


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## mudphalt (Sep 21, 2008)

Are there ever any specials on edge wheels ?? or even zipps ??


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## mudphalt (Sep 21, 2008)

Ohh and what about comfort.. the zipp 808 I rode was silky smooth and in addition to being super responsive also was comfy for such a stiff wheel.. How does the edge compare for all day comfort.. And now back to braking, how well does the carbon wear compared to the aluminum ??? carbon is probably harder than alum ?? I need to look long term with this investment..


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

Good luck finding specials on Edge they are in pretty high demand. It will also be difficult to find good deals on them because they are geared toward builders. Most of us adhere strictly to standard pricing and tend not to try and undercut each other for fear of being dropped by manufacturers. You may be able to find some good deals on Zipps.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

A wheel built specifically with the rider in mind will outperform a standard wheel made to appeal to everyone. 
Warning I am about to give an example.

If a rider calls me about building some 45mm Edges and weighs 140lbs I am going to lace them near the lower end of their recommended tension. 100kg in the front, 120kg DS in the rear.

If I receive the same call from a guy who weighs 200 lbs I will not only increase the spoke count but lace the rims at the higher end of their recommended tension. 130kg in front, 140kg DS in the rear.

The wheel with more spokes will be laterally stiffer and stronger. It will also ride harsher than the wheel built for a lighter rider. That being said a guy holding an extra 60lbs is not going to feel road noise as much because he is going to flex his frame, wheels, fork, and bars more than his lighter counterpart. 

Every good builder... Like the ones that post along side me on this forum use very similar techniques to the ones described.


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