# Shimano Ultegra 52-34 combination and 50-34



## coresare (Aug 20, 2013)

Made a video of how a Shimano Ultegra 6800 52-34 chainset works with a 11-28 cassette. The rear derailleur is a short cage.

The video starts off just shifting up and back down in small ring then big ring to demonstrate how far the derailleur moves. The second half is shifting the front chainring back and forth with the chain in the middle of the cassette, then the high gear, and then the low gear.

https://youtu.be/KR5PuMblY6w

The video below was the original compact 50-34 setup if you want to compare how that performs.

https://youtu.be/V4OiDMkK11A


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

coresare said:


> Made a video of how a Shimano Ultegra 6800 52-34 chainset works with a 11-28 cassette. The rear derailleur is a short cage.
> 
> The video starts off just shifting up and back down in small ring then big ring to demonstrate how far the derailleur moves. The second half is shifting the front chainring back and forth with the chain in the middle of the cassette, then the high gear, and then the low gear.
> 
> ...



Interesting video... what are your thoughts when using it, in terms of smoothness on the road, under load?


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## coresare (Aug 20, 2013)

Asking for trouble if shifting under load. It has a higher chance of dancing on top of the teeth when going from small to big and may fall off the outside or inside. I have only had a chance to pedal lightly around my neighborhood. I will report back after some actual rides, but I definitely need to ease up on the pedal when shifting.

When riding big big there is a little more noise since there is more tension on the chain, but I will be avoiding that combination.

But if you aren't cross chaining much, then it feels the same while pedaling.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

My concern about this setup would be the 18-tooth difference between large and small rings. This would make chain drop more likely.


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## Roland44 (Mar 21, 2013)

coresare said:


> Made a video of how a Shimano Ultegra 6800 52-34 chainset works with a 11-28 cassette. The rear derailleur is a short cage.


Great video, thanks for sharing!


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## coresare (Aug 20, 2013)

I had a chance to finally ride this setup. I will be returning to the compact setup. The slight decrease in shifting performance and gain in top end speed wasnt worth it. Does it work? Yes.. does it work decently well? Yes.. but definitely not as flawless as the recommended sizes.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

There are very very few situations where one would want a 52-11, so now u know.


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## coresare (Aug 20, 2013)

There are many times you would want a 52-11.. hammering it down any type of descent..


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

coresare said:


> There are many times you would want a 52-11.. hammering it down any type of descent..


Well, maybe down a false flat with a tail wind, and you'd still be working your ass off. 50-11 is a really big gear. How often do you use it?

On a real downhill, once rider gets up to 30 mph, he'll keep gaining speed by tucking in on the handlebars and stem, and getting aero. That'll increase speed another couple of mph a heck of a lot easier than pedaling. In fact the pedaling movements interrupt the air flow around the bike and rider and slow him down. Think like a bird or fish. That's how they do it.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Fredrico said:


> Well, maybe down a false flat with a tail wind, and you'd still be working your ass off. 50-11 is a really big gear. How often do you use it?
> 
> On a real downhill, once rider gets up to 30 mph, he'll keep gaining speed by tucking in on the handlebars and stem, and getting aero. That'll increase speed another couple of mph a heck of a lot easier than pedaling. In fact the pedaling movements interrupt the air flow around the bike and rider and slow him down. Think like a bird or fish. That's how they do it.


Easier but not faster - at least in my experience, maybe you are talking steeper grades that I am - I've always found pedaling until I hit 120ish cadence in top gear is faster downhill, that will get me close to 45mph max.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

There really is not much change, 1.6mph @ 120rpm, so I don't see any reason to make a change from standard 50. Now if your going for the land speed record, I would reconsider the whole gearing situation.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

On any straight, no-wind, 4-5% downhill most folks will be faster with a 52- 11. Most of us can spin-out on that type of descent but will coast far slower than our spin-out speed.

Further, riding at spin-out cadence only works for a short period of time. If I could practically ride with a 65 tooth on straight 7% downhills I would because a more sustainable cadence would take me to terminal velocity for that gradient faster and more comfortably.


Fredrico said:


> Well, maybe down a false flat with a tail wind, and you'd still be working your ass off. 50-11 is a really big gear. How often do you use it?
> 
> On a real downhill, once rider gets up to 30 mph, he'll keep gaining speed by tucking in on the handlebars and stem, and getting aero. That'll increase speed another couple of mph a heck of a lot easier than pedaling. In fact the pedaling movements interrupt the air flow around the bike and rider and slow him down. Think like a bird or fish. That's how they do it.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

Srode said:


> Easier but not faster - at least in my experience, maybe you are talking steeper grades that I am - I've always found pedaling until I hit 120ish cadence in top gear is faster downhill, that will get me close to 45mph max.


Ok, yes, a relatively shallow grade, sure, pedal away. Do a "speed interval" for the legs; loosen them up. But you won't be delivering much power, and it won't translate all that well on the flats where you might need it. 

We see TDF riders pedaling down the grades to keep their legs "supple." But they're wasting their energy if exerting much power. But ok, at a certain point, the grade becomes steep enough, gravity takes over; by now rider is probably spinning out at 40 mph, and if you can pedal 120 rpm, at 45 mph, you're right. 

So yes, I'm talking about steeper grades than you're encountering. As the grade gets steeper, there's a certain point where gravity takes over, pedaling spins out, and rider is better off tucking aero to cut through that wall of air hitting him at 35-45 mph. Also, how long can you sustain those 120 rpm descents? I always say, "Screw it," stop pedaling, and just go into the tuck, usually discovering I haven't lost any speed and can now rest the legs.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

SwiftSolo said:


> On any straight, no-wind, 4-5% downhill most folks will be faster with a 52- 11. Most of us can spin-out on that type of descent but will coast far slower than our spin-out speed.
> 
> Further, riding at spin-out cadence only works for a short period of time. If I could practically ride with a 65 tooth on straight 7% downhills I would because a more sustainable cadence would take me to terminal velocity for that gradient faster and more comfortably.


Alright, so it really depends on the grade what rider can get away with. Yep, I put on a 50 one summer. It was nice solo, but in a competitive group I kept spinning out on those 4-5% grades as the others were pulling away. The 53 developed a bit more torque on the 13 and I could punch out another couple of mph for a few seconds. Like you say, few riders can sustain above 120+ cadence for very long.

Many times, I've passed riders pedaling, me in a full tuck. Then again, they were usually pedaling 90-95 rpm, not spinning out like mad, so there's that. 

I always ask myself, "Is it worth it?" What do I get for frantically pedaling as fast as I can just to cheat out another 1 mph going 40 mph? by 25 mph, that wall of air becomes the primary resistance to forward momentum. If I can increase speed by 1 mph in a full tuck, why pedal? If the grade is steep enough, pedaling has actually slowed me down. I've experimented with this at 30-35 mph, more typical of the descent speeds attainable around here, and found my speed could drop 1 mph if I start pedaling like mad. The cost of overcoming the wall of air for that minimal gain, when I could be resting the legs, aren't worth it.

So keep those 50 t. chain rings. They'll give rider at least one more usable gear on the flats than the 52.


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## coresare (Aug 20, 2013)

People have different riding styles and different terrain. Some like to smash it with a group of friends even downhill even if it's just for a minute. Some crit racers prefer a 52. I would personally like to be closer to my average cadence than spinning out my max if able to. A 53T, 52T, and 50T exists for a reason.

I had already stated I will return to the compact 50-34 setup since the decrease in shifting performance wasn't worth the extra top end - for me.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

coresare said:


> People have different riding styles and different terrain. Some like to smash it with a group of friends even downhill even if it's just for a minute. Some crit racers prefer a 52. I would personally like to be closer to my average cadence than spinning out my max if able to. A 53T, 52T, and 50T exists for a reason.
> 
> I had already stated I will return to the compact 50-34 setup since the decrease in shifting performance wasn't worth the extra top end - for me.


Yep. And let's not forget 50-11 is about the same as 53-13. Haven't used that gear in years!


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Fredrico said:


> Like you say, few riders can sustain above 120+ cadence for very long.
> 
> I always ask myself, "Is it worth it?" What do I get for frantically pedaling as fast as I can just to cheat out another 1 mph going 40 mph?
> 
> So keep those 50 t. chain rings. They'll give rider at least one more usable gear on the flats than the 52.


The use for 53/11 gearing is pretty limited for me admittedly. We have a couple of downhill sprints to city limit signs on group weekend rides that tall gearing makes the difference on - I don't need to spin for long finish first or second (mostly first) - 6 or 7 seconds at 120 rpm making 600 to 700 watts and I'm not getting passed often. 

53 front ring with close spacing on an 11/23 cassette gives plenty of gears for all of my rides around here. Going to areas with lots of climbing I'd much prefer the compact.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

Srode said:


> The use for 53/11 gearing is pretty limited for me admittedly. We have a couple of downhill sprints to city limit signs on group weekend rides that tall gearing makes the difference on - I don't need to spin for long finish first or second (mostly first) - 6 or 7 seconds at 120 rpm making 600 to 700 watts and I'm not getting passed often.
> 
> 53 front ring with close spacing on an 11/23 cassette gives plenty of gears for all of my rides around here. Going to areas with lots of climbing I'd much prefer the compact.


Awesome! That's how its done. Kudos! :thumbsup:

Would also guess you've got a 39 inner ring on there. 39-23 will handle anything most places, even those mountain passes out west.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

The other orifice Fredrico! I know it's confusing.


Fredrico said:


> 39-23 will handle anything most places, even those mountain passes out west.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

SwiftSolo said:


> The other orifice Fredrico! I know it's confusing.


Now that was uncalled for. :nono: 39-23 will get a fit 160 pound rider on an 18 pound bike up a mountain just fine. I've done it in 44-23. So there. The grades in the Rockies aren't that steep.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

And we all know that once you've done one mountain, you can do all mountains!

At least give the other orifice a try.

Incidentally, the "Rockies" are only one of several mountain ranges "out west".


Fredrico said:


> Now that was uncalled for. :nono: 39-23 will get a fit 160 pound rider on an 18 pound bike up a mountain just fine. I've done it in 44-23. So there. The grades in the Rockies aren't that steep.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

Fredrico said:


> Now that was uncalled for. :nono: 39-23 will get a fit 160 pound rider on an 18 pound bike up a mountain just fine. I've done it in 44-23. So there. The grades in the Rockies aren't that steep.


I think there's something to this, for sure... To give a little back-story. I am from NJ. I weigh 165 pounds and my FTP usually ranges from about 270-305, depending on y current level of training. I'm not a pure climber (weigh too much) but usually climb pretty good because I'm a decent TT rider. 

I went out to Boulder earlier in the year and got to ride with several locals. We did Left-Hand Canyon, Lee Hill, Flagstaff Canyon and the Morgul-Bismark Wall among other locations. Prior to doing the Morgul-Bismark Wall, a few of the locals were really talking it up... "Oh man, we gotta take you up the wall." Etc. When we got there, in my head, I was thinking, "this is a wall? it's just a bump." After my trip I realized that the guys in Colorado have a much different concept when it comes to climbing. The climbs I did were all pretty long, gradual climbs. The Morgul-Bismark wall was probably the shortest/steepest climb I did at 1.3 miles and it hit 10-12% in the last kick up to the top. Contrasting that to Left-Hand Canyon, which is 16.5 miles and averages 4% and you can see the difference. That being said... nothing I saw in Boulder even remotely resembles the climbing I do back home. All of the stuff we climb at home is short and steep. Most of my local climbs are 1-1.5 miles and average 8-10%. There are a few bigger climbs in the 4-5 mile range and it is not uncommon to see grades max out at over 20%. Last week, I found a new climb about an hour's ride away from me and it hit 25%. I'm not saying one kind of climb is better or more difficult than another, but I definitely don't think anyone would find it easy, getting up a 20%+ grade on a 39 tooth chain ring. It's also not easy grinding out a 16+ mile climb that tops out over 9000'. There are different types of rides, different types of climbs and different tools to tackle them... using either, doesn't make you any more or less tough, it simply makes you faster or slower.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

I would like to see that 16 mile 9000' climb done in a 39-23. Let me know when you plan on doing it, I'll be there.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

duriel said:


> I would like to see that 16 mile 9000' climb done in a 39-23. Let me know when you plan on doing it, I'll be there.


To clarify... it topped out at 9000'. It started at 5000'+ (whatever boulder is) and I was using a 50-34 crankset and 11-28. I'm not positive what gearing I used on Lefthand Canyon. I'm certain on was on the 34 tooth ring for most of it and was somewhere in the 19-23 range, not on the 28. The two locals I was with were on Standard chainrings as was a friend of mine from NJ.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

duriel said:


> I would like to see that 16 mile 9000' climb done in a 39-23. Let me know when you plan on doing it, I'll be there.


I did Lefthand Canyon with a regular crank years ago. I believe I had a 12-25 cassette (maybe 8 or 9 speed). The last couple of switchbacks were a little rough into Ward but really the climb was way easier than say riding up 119 to Nederland, which I did with the same gearing and almost didn't make it. Every time I've gone back I've ridden compact (usually 48/34).

I agree that here in the NYC burbs the climbs may be shorter, but they're definitely steeper.

The only place I've found long AND crazy steep climbs is Hawaii (try Kaloko Drive on the Big Island, the last 7 miles are miles of hell!)


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

SwiftSolo said:


> And we all know that once you've done one mountain, you can do all mountains!
> 
> At least give the other orifice a try.
> 
> Incidentally, the "Rockies" are only one of several mountain ranges "out west".


They're all a piece of cake. They're much newer than the roads in the Italian mountains, so are graded less steep! :yesnod: No problem in 42-28, for sure.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

DrSmile said:


> I did Lefthand Canyon with a regular crank years ago. I believe I had a 12-25 cassette (maybe 8 or 9 speed). The last couple of switchbacks were a little rough into Ward but really the climb was way easier than say riding up 119 to Nederland, which I did with the same gearing and almost didn't make it. Every time I've gone back I've ridden compact (usually 48/34).
> 
> I agree that here in the NYC burbs the climbs may be shorter, but they're definitely steeper.
> 
> The only place I've found long AND crazy steep climbs is Hawaii (try Kaloko Drive on the Big Island, the last 7 miles are miles of hell!)


Same down here in Vuginny, none much over a mile but a couple of degrees steeper than Angeles Crest or Hollywood Hills. 

The Rockies are a newer geological event. They come off a plateau already a mile above sea level. East coast mountains are older and have had more time to erode. The climbs out of the Potomac River are steeper and more gut wrenching than the ones out in LA. Hollywood Hills came close, though. And I'm told the Rockies are a piece of cake until right up at the top. Why do mountains always get steeper at the tops? :wink:


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## riccardo123 (May 29, 2014)

OK, I'll bite. 50-11 is NOT the same as 53-13. It's between 53-12 and 53-11.


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

A compact and 11/32 is a very common gearing set up around here. Most people are buying all around style bikes and they come that way. Road, Gravel rides. Anyway we are all just ordinary cyclists. I'm ordinary and 68y/o. This year I rode 4000 miles with an average of 42 feet per mile climbing. I am going to ride in the rain today because it's super windy. I love cycling in a super windy situation. The head wind demoralizes you and the tail wind excites you all in a single ride. I have fenders on my all around bike.

edit:

Fun ride. The tail wind back home was a blast. I earned it going out however.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

riccardo123 said:


> OK, I'll bite. 50-11 is NOT the same as 53-13. It's between 53-12 and 53-11.


Better yet! Now that's two or three gears I'll never use!


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

riccardo123 said:


> OK, I'll bite. 50-11 is NOT the same as 53-13. It's between 53-12 and 53-11.


In fact 53x13 is still a shorter gear than 50x12, which is why I ride compact with cassettes starting with the 12 cog, plus I get a 16 and/or 18!


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

DrSmile said:


> In fact 53x13 is stiller a shorter gear than 50x12, which is why I ride compact with cassettes starting with the 12 cog, plus I get a 16 and/or 18!


Yep, much rather have the 16 than the 11.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

redondoaveb said:


> Yep, much rather have the 16 than the 11.


Definitely! Why are 16 cogs so rare? The skip from 15 to 17 is a bit much at the speeds rider is going in that gear range.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

Mine are faster, they all go to.....11!


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

duriel said:


> Mine are faster, they all go to.....11!


Hot cha! Do you ever use that gear on a flat? Be honest!


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

I suppose the 16t cog really comes down to the terrain your riding in. On a flatland ride 1 tooth shifts would be good and in a mountain terrain I think 2+ tooth shifts are good. 

Last year I went from a 12-30 Ultegra 10 speed to a 12-32 SRAM 10 speed to help with a Cat 2 climb I was trying to get a Strava PR on. The lower gear did the job and I was successful. I have been on that cassette for going on a year but my plan is to not ride up there next year so I just put my 12-30 back on. It does not have a 16t and I do not want one. In that range when the road heads up I want to move into 2 tooth shifts. That way a double shift will give me 4 teeth which comes into play quite often. The biggest gap is from 27 to 30 tooth. 

This year instead up uphill PR's I am going to work on a more of an overall endurance and a general increase in average speed for the entire ride. The only Strava segment I am going to challenge myself with is the long ones of 10 miles or 30 miles. Basically time trial segments near my home. It's all Calif coastal mountain riding so going uphill is part of the deal. 

Anyway a 16t for me would be an irritation.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

BikeLayne said:


> I suppose the 16t cog really comes down to the terrain your riding in. On a flatland ride 1 tooth shifts would be good and in a mountain terrain I think 2+ tooth shifts are good.
> 
> Last year I went from a 12-30 Ultegra 10 speed to a 12-32 SRAM 10 speed to help with a Cat 2 climb I was trying to get a Strava PR on. The lower gear did the job and I was successful. I have been on that cassette for going on a year but my plan is to not ride up there next year so I just put my 12-30 back on. It does not have a 16t and I do not want one. In that range when the road heads up I want to move into 2 tooth shifts. That way a double shift will give me 4 teeth which comes into play quite often. The biggest gap is from 27 to 30 tooth.
> 
> ...


True, 16 is a pretty high gear for climbing, but it's just easier enough to stay on top of than the 15, that I miss it while tempoing along the flats and gently rolling terrain in NVA and ETX. But yes, in Pittsburg, PA, a low end gear would get used more.

I'd rather give up the 11 and 12 any day. Would never use anything higher than 13, even with 50/34. Never figured out why everybody looks for an 11. Few riders get strong enough to make much use of it. 

Best freewheel I ever had started with 14, 15, 16, 17. Used every gear. It was nice. Can't find any, of course.  Nobody offers them, probably because they don't meet the macho factor. 11 teeth, yeah! Kind of like these cars with speedos marked up to 140 mph. Nice conceit, but it'll never happen.


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

Fredrico said:


> True, 16 is a pretty high gear for climbing, but it's just easier enough to stay on top of than the 15, that I miss it while tempoing along the flats and gently rolling terrain in NVA and ETX. But yes, in Pittsburg, PA, a low end gear would get used more.
> 
> I'd rather give up the 11 and 12 any day. Would never use anything higher than 13, even with 50/34. Never figured out why everybody looks for an 11. Few riders get strong enough to make much use of it.
> 
> Best freewheel I ever had started with 14, 15, 16, 17. Used every gear. It was nice. Can't find any, of course.  Nobody offers them, probably because they don't meet the macho factor. 11 teeth, yeah! Kind of like these cars with speedos marked up to 140 mph. Nice conceit, but it'll never happen.


Shimano makes one, I know because I've got one.
Product: Shimano CS-6600 Wide 10-Speed Cassette


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

BikeLayne said:


> I suppose the 16t cog really comes down to the terrain your riding in. On a flatland ride 1 tooth shifts would be good and in a mountain terrain I think 2+ tooth shifts are good.
> 
> Last year I went from a 12-30 Ultegra 10 speed to a 12-32 SRAM 10 speed to help with a Cat 2 climb I was trying to get a Strava PR on. The lower gear did the job and I was successful. I have been on that cassette for going on a year but my plan is to not ride up there next year so I just put my 12-30 back on. It does not have a 16t and I do not want one. In that range when the road heads up I want to move into 2 tooth shifts. That way a double shift will give me 4 teeth which comes into play quite often. The biggest gap is from 27 to 30 tooth.
> 
> ...


I agree, if you need a 30 or 32 for hills then the 16 is a complete waste. I'm in so. cal. and with my compact a 27 is the lowest I need to go for all hills and I still get the 16. When I did Baldy I only had my 25 on and was able to do it. Wish I would have had the 27 though.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

redondoaveb said:


> Shimano makes one, I know because I've got one.
> Product: Shimano CS-6600 Wide 10-Speed Cassette


True progress! They even have one that starts with a 15, another with a 16! Thanks for posting! I bet the bike didn't come equipped with one, though. When are mfgrs going to wise up?


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

Fredrico said:


> True progress! They even have one that starts with a 15, another with a 16! Thanks for posting! I bet the bike didn't come equipped with one, though. When are mfgrs going to wise up?


Two issues. Only good with 53/39. I didn't like it with the compact, I could spin out the 14. Other problem is it won't work on some bikes. With the larger cog on the outside, it can hit on the chain and seat stays. 
Other than that, feels like having a close ratio transmission. :thumbsup:


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

redondoaveb said:


> Two issues. Only good with 53/39. I didn't like it with the compact, I could spin out the 14. Other problem is it won't work on some bikes. With the larger cog on the outside, it can hit on the chain and seat stays.
> Other than that, feels like having a close ratio transmission. :thumbsup:


That's true. I never tried it with a 50 t. chainring. 

Also clearance between the cog and the seat stay right above the drop out might be a problem. It used to be with "ultra 7" freewheels, jamming a 7 speed into 6 speed spacing. The chain would rub on the seat stay when shifted into the last cog out.


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

After riding on the 12- 30 today I decided to go back to the 12- 32. Even though I never went lower then the 27 I decided I like the 50/28 combo on the 12-32. The 50/27 I was using today just did not feel quite right. Also the SRAM shifts a bit more crisp then the Ultegra. However not really much difference in them when you get down to it.


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

redondoaveb said:


> I agree, if you need a 30 or 32 for hills then the 16 is a complete waste. I'm in so. cal. and with my compact a 27 is the lowest I need to go for all hills and I still get the 16. When I did Baldy I only had my 25 on and was able to do it. Wish I would have had the 27 though.


What's the elevation when you do Baldy. Up this way if you ride from say Angels Camp to the summit in the Sierra's you would climb about 13,000 feet/90 miles. I cannot imagine doing that on a 25 or a 27.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

BikeLayne said:


> After riding on the 12- 30 today I decided to go back to the 12- 32. Even though I never went lower then the 27 I decided I like the 50/28 combo on the 12-32. The 50/27 I was using today just did not feel quite right. Also the SRAM shifts a bit more crisp then the Ultegra. However not really much difference in them when you get down to it.


Is that due to slightly increased cross chaining, or are both the second cog out? By the time you get up into the larger cogs, better to shift into the small ring! 50/28 is exactly the same gear as 34/19, 47.4 inches. 34/19 gives a much better chain line, will run smoother and the chain will last considerably longer. 

I know, the problem is when shifting the 16 tooth difference from large to small chain rings. Rider might want to double shift to a harder gear in back to more easily pick up the cadence. That wasn't a problem with 10 tooth differences like 52-42, so I can understand the desire to cross chain across the tighter freewheel gear ratios.


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

BikeLayne said:


> What's the elevation when you do Baldy. Up this way if you ride from say Angels Camp to the summit in the Sierra's you would climb about 13,000 feet/90 miles. I cannot imagine doing that on a 25 or a 27.


The route I did was 2700'/8 miles. It's a HC climb. I've never done 13000 ft. in one ride. Most I've done is about 7000'. I'm with you, if I were doing 13000' I'd want a lower gear too. I wouldn't want to be grinding up the steeper slopes. I was out of the saddle a lot on Baldy. Couldn't do that on a 13000' ride.


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

redondoaveb said:


> The route I did was 2700'/8 miles. It's a HC climb. I've never done 13000 ft. in one ride. Most I've done is about 7000'. I'm with you, if I were doing 13000' I'd want a lower gear too. I wouldn't want to be grinding up the steeper slopes. I was out of the saddle a lot on Baldy. Couldn't do that on a 13000' ride.


 We have a similar ride difficulty just a few miles from the house. Fremont Peak which is really famous because Col Fremont was harassing Gen Santa Ana back in the day up there. Also currently an observatory is up there and you can go peek in the telescope if you want to on special occasions and such. .. However for a cyclist it's 10.5 miles and 2700 feet. Most of the climbing occurs during the second half. Anyway I could not do that on a 25t. Maybe a 27t but it would not be any fun. It's an up and back down ride. Then if you are Hungary San Juan Bautista has some great places to have lunch. Jardines has a beautiful patio and they would not care if you bikes were parked near your table. I personally hate climbing Fremont Peak (I climbed it twice last month and made a promise to myself to not go up there again) but I ride through San Juan Bautista quite often and go over to Aromas which is a beautiful country ride and with civilized hills for climbing. To Aromas and back is 40 miles and 2500 feet of climbing. But the climbing is spread around and not all in one spot. I try to do that ride once a week. My friend has done the Angels Camp to the Summit several times in the Sierra's. His Dad lives in Angles Camp so he takes his bike with him. He can ride a bike all day. I cannot.


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

BikeLayne said:


> We have a similar ride difficulty just a few miles from the house. Fremont Peak which is really famous because Col Fremont was harassing Gen Santa Ana back in the day up there. Also currently an observatory is up there and you can go peek in the telescope if you want to on special occasions and such. .. However for a cyclist it's 10.5 miles and 2700 feet. Most of the climbing occurs during the second half. Anyway I could not do that on a 25t. Maybe a 27t but it would not be any fun. It's an up and back down ride. Then if you are Hungary San Juan Bautista has some great places to have lunch. Jardines has a beautiful patio and they would not care if you bikes were parked near your table. I personally hate climbing Fremont Peak (I climbed it twice last month and made a promise to myself to not go up there again) but I ride through San Juan Bautista quite often and go over to Aromas which is a beautiful country ride and with civilized hills for climbing. To Aromas and back is 40 miles and 2500 feet of climbing. But the climbing is spread around and not all in one spot. I try to do that ride once a week. My friend has done the Angels Camp to the Summit several times in the Sierra's. His Dad lives in Angles Camp so he takes his bike with him. He can ride a bike all day. I cannot.


The pros (Ted King and Phil Gaimon) did the same ride in 37 minutes, took me an hour. Definitely wasn't any fun. We've got some nice challenging hills/mountains here but you guys have the scenery to go with it. Must be nice riding in your area. Of course, you better like hills.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

redondoaveb said:


> The route I did was 2700'/8 miles. It's a HC climb.


What is an 'HC' climb? My mt climb is 4400/12 miles, one does not worry or even think about a 16. On my ride I spend about 5% of the time @ 16mph.


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

duriel said:


> What is an 'HC' climb? My mt climb is 4400/12 miles, one does not worry or even think about a 16. On my ride I spend about 5% of the time @ 16mph.


"beyond catagory" Yeah, you definitely wouldn't need a 16 on your ride, 4400'/12 miles sounds brutal. Is there a Strava segment for that climb?


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

duriel said:


> What is an 'HC' climb? My mt climb is 4400/12 miles, one does not worry or even think about a 16. On my ride I spend about 5% of the time @ 16mph.


racing - How are the categories for climbs decided? - Bicycles Stack Exchange


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

Fredrico said:


> Is that due to slightly increased cross chaining, or are both the second cog out? By the time you get up into the larger cogs, better to shift into the small ring! 50/28 is exactly the same gear as 34/19, 47.4 inches. 34/19 gives a much better chain line, will run smoother and the chain will last considerably longer.
> 
> I know, the problem is when shifting the 16 tooth difference from large to small chain rings. Rider might want to double shift to a harder gear in back to more easily pick up the cadence. That wasn't a problem with 10 tooth differences like 52-42, so I can understand the desire to cross chain across the tighter freewheel gear ratios.



The 50/28 can be reproduced as you say but I use it on a specific smallish hill that I ride over about 4 times a week. As you come up to the hill you are moving along at a good speed in the big ring and as I work my way to the top I am shifting to lower gears. Then towards the top I grab the 28 and get out of the saddle to keep my momentum up over the crest. It's a head wind/side wind type thing. If I drop to the small ring and shift down in the back I will lose the momentum before it's done. However in general I have no issues with the 50/28 cross chain situation. I do not want to get into the 50/32 ever but if I am tired I wind up there and then bog down as I shift a bunch to get out of it. If I am trying to maintain pace with somebody and I hit the cross chain gear I will stay in it rather then get dropped. It works, it's a poor accidental choice but it happens. 

I love that hill and many times I will draft a much faster rider and then at the top I grab that 28 and pull out, around and ahead of the faster guy over the crest to their surprise.

The 52/42 gearing was very different when we rode like that back in the day. Not to mention when I was a young rider I could ride with a 13/24 in back. But when you dropped to the 42 is was not that huge gear dump that the compact offers now. But now I am old and it's either the compact or a triple for me. I rode the triple for a while when they called it the racing triple but went to compact about 4 years ago and prefer it. Many times shifting to the 34 is followed with 1 or 2 shifts in back depending on the situation.


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

redondoaveb said:


> The pros (Ted King and Phil Gaimon) did the same ride in 37 minutes, took me an hour. Definitely wasn't any fun. We've got some nice challenging hills/mountains here but you guys have the scenery to go with it. Must be nice riding in your area. Of course, you better like hills.


The riding here is good in that the hills in San Benito County are beautiful. Mostly Oak trees, giant ranch looking area. Low traffic, you can ride all day without a traffic signal. However we have a big wind blowing across from Monterey, Ca and it can demoralize you. An unfair lack of tail winds also as the roads seem to catch it with a head wind or side wind. The roads look like the Air Force is using them for bombing practice. A steel bike with big tires is gaining in popularity around here as they are touh enough and keep you from breaking your teeth. Also the local bike shop mechanic who is a cycling leader in the county tells everyone that. I ride steel with 25mm but may try 28mm some time. I was thinking of the Vittoria with a tread on the side and slick in the middle. We have gravel rides and that might be a good all around tire for me. 

I think the Santa Ynez area of central Calif is probably close to paradise for cycling. I am going to make it out that way for a metric century this year. My bike is a custom frame shop bike and the builder lives there and so I was around the area for 3 days because of that. My wife and I made a mini vaca and I was blown away with the rides and roads. I did not go riding however as my wife cannot be left alone in the motel. That would not make her happy at all. 

I live 3 hours from the Sierra's. The mountains are beautiful and I know little about what cycling has to offer there. We do go to Pinecrest lake a couple times a year but it's a family thing and I do not take my bike. I drove the ride from Angels Camp to the Summit before and once you get going for about an hour the traffic drops to very low and I would think it would be a great ride if you are a cyclist that can climb all day. That ride is over my 69y/o head I'm afraid. I could do half of it but I would need a ride from there either up or back down.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

BikeLayne said:


> I did not go riding however as my wife cannot be left alone in the motel.


U have a serious problem. Maybe u could get a baby sitter?


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

duriel said:


> U have a serious problem. Maybe u could get a baby sitter?


No I would not need that. We were on a mini vacation together and we wanted to do things together. However she did stay alone while I went through a 4 hour fitting session for my custom frame I was having built. Then we went down to the coast, went into all those shops in the Sweedish town (forgot the name of the town) . went to the movies and had a very nice time. 

However she or I would make a good babysitter as we have 6 grown kids, some Grand kids that we baby sit. We are both CPR certified, Advanced Coronary Life Support certified and Pediatric Advanced Life support certified. We are both RN's. I am retired now but I maintain all my certifications and license as it was very hard to achieve that (RN but the certifications are not particularly hard to achieve) and I want to keep it all active until I am 80 y/o most likely. 

Anyway I love my wife and I want to be with her when we are on vacation. Other couples are successful in their marriage also and they do things I would not do and vice versa. Everybody finds their own way with relationships. Cathy and I married young and I would marry her again in a heartbeat. The love of my life.


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## ogre (Dec 16, 2005)

BikeLayne said:


> However she did stay alone while I went through a 4 hour fitting session for my custom frame I was having built


OK, you're excused.


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

ogre said:


> OK, you're excused.


 Anyway when my wife and I go places we go to experience the trip together. I do not take a bike but this year we are going back for a century. My wife and daughter are going to do stuff and my son-in-law and I are going to ride a century. Not sure which one yet.

The L-Eroica is in that area each year but I do not have a bike that would meet the rules or the old school clothing and shoes etc. It looks fun to me however. I do not want to go on a buying spree just for a 1 day event.


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