# Moon saddle?



## alee100 (Nov 24, 2007)

Has anybody tried the Moon Saddle? 
http://www.moonsaddle.com/
My wife and I just got a tandem. Took it for our first ride, about 16 miles, and the only problem was with her seat comfort level. I was wondering if this saddle is worth looking into.
She has never been much of a biker, this was probably her first ride in 10 years, and her longest ever. I told her that everybody has some discomfort at first, but if I can reduce or eliminate that I think we are much more likely to stick with tandem riding. She was wearing decent bike shorts, and her position looked pretty good to me and a more experienced cyclist riding with us.
And yes, I know that no "serious" rider would use that saddle, so if you want to make condescending comments about me or the saddle, feel free, just don't get upset when I won't play.
Thanks.


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## SleeveleSS (Jun 3, 2007)

Well, bike shorts aren't designed to work with this kind of saddle, so I would think at least some of its advantage would be negated by that fact. I would recommend getting a women's specific traditional saddle and then just work her up to more mileage. She'll get used to it, especially if you go slow. 
I had to work my way back into my saddle after being off the bike for a while. It just comes with time and mileage.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

*Some thoughts.*

The problem with radically different saddle designs is that they generally solve one problem by introducing another. Because it hasn't got a nose, the Moon Saddle saddle certainly eliminates pressure on the perineum. But saddles like these introduce two new problems. They interfere with the downward motion of thighs while pedaling, and they cause the rider to constantly slide forward. The Moon Saddle attempts to eliminate the thigh interference problem by angling the seating surface down at the front—but this makes forward-sliding problem even worse. Almost certainly, a rider will have to constantly push back with her arms and hands to stay on the Moon Saddle.

In the 1970's, a guy named Dan Henry came out with a similar design called "The Bummer." It's no longer available, but some people are still making their own Bummer from old bars, stems and some canvas. Like the Moon Saddle, it completely eliminates pressure on the perineum, but also suffers from the two defects described above.

I agree with SleeveleSS' advice. The 16-miler was much too long—a number of shorter rides on a decent standard saddle which is perfectly adjusted will most likely solve the problem. The notion that a beginner can get on a bike and cycle in total comfort for more than a few miles is more of a marketing tool than reality.


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## Scot_Gore (Jan 25, 2002)

I was on a 200K Brevet where on rider had a similar saddle. He beat me in. Not exactly like the one you reference. It was a little more substantial in seat surface. 

He got some friendly and familiar ribbing from friends and the saddle was by no means new. I imagine it's what he had grown used to.

Scot


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

*Second the "overdid it" comments*

16 miles is an awfully long way for someone's first ride in 10 years, especially on a tandem, where she likely never stood up. That's a long time in the saddle for an untrained bum. If I took two months off the bike, and then went for a 16-mile ride where I never got out of the saddle, I'd be a little sore, even on a saddle that I know works well for me. I'd suggest you take al least a week recovery break, then start with some short rides -- like 5-6 miles, every other day. 

The "moon" saddle looks like a poor design to me, but maybe it would work for some people. It looks to me like it would seriously interfere with the operation of the glutes, making for a whole different kind of soreness.


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

No idea on the "moom" saddle. 

as a beginner your gut reaction will be to put on a really thick saddle for comfort, don't do it. Let the rider get fitted on a specialized saddle. Take her to a shop and try a bunch of saddles.


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## Treker (Nov 7, 2007)

As pointed out, there have been similar saddle designs in the past that attempt to get rid of the nose of a saddle to reduce pressure on the perineum. While successful at that one point, they do introduce other problems, as also pointed out. 

One problem not yet mentioned by other posters is changes in bike handling. Without a nose on a saddle it can be more difficult to brace yourself left to right on the bike. You may not be aware of it when you ride, but you do brace yourself on the nose of the saddle with the insides of your thighs. 

I remember reading somewhere (sorry, I don't have a reference, but it may have been here on RBR or one of the bike fitting web sites) that some that have tried this type of saddle (without a nose) have been known to more easily loose balance while riding. Maybe this is something that could be overcome with practice, but according to what I read it is rather disorienting when first tried. Maybe your wife would not have this problem since she is not a dedicated rider to begin with and the fact that she is on the back of a tandem, but it may be something to think about. I'll try looking for the reference, and will post it here if I can locate it.

Later,

Jay B.


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## tron (Jul 18, 2004)

My wife had trouble with the comfort of the seat on her bike and consequently did not want to ride. I got her the women's comfort saddle from Nashbar (comes in pimk) and she couldnt stop talking about how comfortable it was.


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## alee100 (Nov 24, 2007)

I kept asking my wife how she was doing, and she said she was fine and wanted to keep going. I probably should have turned around sooner but she said to keep going. It was a completely flat ride so it didn't take too long. Afterwards she said the discomfort was there from the start, got worse the last mile or so. I have always found it interesting how some things feel much better and others feel much worse when you know you are almost finished.
I am pretty lucky and seldom have saddle issues, so I probably discounted that issue too much.
I am going to try and go to REI or one of the bigger bike stores around and have her sit on some different saddles. 
Thanks for the responses.


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## Sashana (Dec 19, 2007)

JCavilia said:


> 16 miles is an awfully long way for someone's first ride in 10 years, especially on a tandem, where she likely never stood up. That's a long time in the saddle for an untrained bum. If I took two months off the bike, and then went for a 16-mile ride where I never got out of the saddle, I'd be a little sore, even on a saddle that I know works well for me. I'd suggest you take al least a week recovery break, then start with some short rides -- like 5-6 miles, every other day.
> 
> The "moon" saddle looks like a poor design to me, but maybe it would work for some people. It looks to me like it would seriously interfere with the operation of the glutes, making for a whole different kind of soreness.


+1
I took just a month off the bike this past winter and my butt was sore for the first few rides, on a saddle that has always been comfy. A womens specific saddle may help but really, the butt has to be broken in. (not code).

Sashana


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## majura (Apr 21, 2007)

First off, I haven't tried one.. but like all things there's a reason why the 'Moon Saddle' hasn't taken off as the preferred saddle of cyclists. Although there's no pressure when leaning forward, there'd also be no support. Try the WTB She saddles... they're not overally padded, but not spartan either- a good balance IMO. My better half loves her's. Big comfort gel saddles are only good for a quick 15min ride so I would avoid those. If you're happy to pay a little more $$ try out the Specialized range of WSD saddles.


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## nepbug (Jun 6, 2006)

never tried a noseless saddle myself, I always thought that they would transfer any pain to the wrists.

Like others suggested there are several others out there that will reduce pressure. I'd suggest Koobi, Terry of the Specialized BG saddles. I'm about to get my GF a terry to try out, they have a 30 (maybe 90) day try-out policy where you can return it if it doesn't work out or exchange it for a different model to try.


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## spyro (Aug 3, 2004)

REI is great for being able to return the saddle after 100 miles (or more) but their in stock saddle selection is pretty small, at least at most of their stores.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

Also worth thinking that not all saddle discomfort is the same. With the relative inability to prepare for bumps and being much harder to unweight over them, the tailgunner often gets the worst of the road surface on a tandem. Many tandem teams install shoch-absorbing seatposts in the rear. The captain, sitting in the middle of that LONG wheelbase and knowing well what's coming, has no such problems. 

You may just be beating her up a bit, as compared to the 'uncomfortable saddle' problems we are accustomed to on singles.


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## Leopold Porkstacker (Jul 15, 2005)

“I’m being followed by a moon saddle

Moon saddle moon saddle”

-he who stacks pork


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## I am Dirt (Jan 30, 2008)

Leopold Porkstacker said:


> “I’m being followed by a moon saddle
> 
> Moon saddle moon saddle”
> 
> -he who stacks pork


Well stated. 

I would say that the moon saddle would be perfect for mooning people while cycling... if you're into that sort of thing. 

Pete


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

Search the Team Estrogen forum about women and their saddle problems/preferences. After several hours of reading, you/she will probably have a better idea of what she'll need to try out.


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## Travis (Oct 14, 2005)

a women' specific seat would help and you might also want to consider a stoker suspension seatpost which are pretty popular on tandems
thudbuster.com is one but there are several out there


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## boogerbear (Jun 15, 2008)

*moonsaddle*

too bad some just resist change or post negative judgment without actually trying something. 
1) this saddle is actually quite comfortable. The "WINGS" are soft and DO NOT PINCH the sides of your thighs or bum, but actually flex a bit.
2) is not in the way or cause pressure under thighs when pedaling, good design.
3) you do not SLIP. You can re-adjust seat pressure-points while riding by moving your bum just like a regular nose saddle. 
4) I found that when standing and leaning back on downhills, the seat actually allows you to rest you thighs on top and with a bit of practice, gives as much control as any other saddle for balance.
I ride road and mountain bikes. average pleasure ride is 20-35 miles.
As much as there are SHORT-COMINGS of any saddle type, and no one-saddle for everyone, I have found it to be comfortable and practical.
The two months I have been using it, I have never been laughed at, but received many curious inquires.
TRY IT!! you just might like it.


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## smokey422 (Feb 22, 2004)

My wife had a Terry Chubby Cheeks and is rather fond of it. Brooks makes several models of women's saddles and if you order from wallbike.com they have a 6-month trial period during which you can return the saddle for another or for a full refund.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

I want to expand on the very good post Danl1 made above. On a tandem the captains position is usually very comfy in terms of ride quality. The wheel base is so long, and the captain is suspended right in the middle. The stoker, however, is in a position much closer to a single road bike. Since tandems are built stouter, the stoker position may feel like a very non-compliant single. In other words, it might shake the fillings outta your teeth. I emphasize might. 

When riding, the stoker can't see a damm thing to the front. He/she can only see 90* to the left or right. They can't see ANY road defects e.g. holes, cracks, bumps, gravel, etc. This can be really tough on the old nether regions. Imagine riding blind and you'll get the idea. It's the captain's responsibility to keep the stoker informed well in advance. When we had our tandem and I failed to do this, I suddenly received a rather serious pinch to my bum. In all honesty...that did help me to remember. The stoker likely won't know when turns, stops, evasive maneuvers, ettc. are coming either. Yep! That's the captain's job again. A Thudbuster or other shock absorbing seatpost might be a good idea.

One other thing...since your stoker is a woman you *ARE* going to have a communication problem. Women frequently say yes when they mean no, and no when they mean yes. "How's your seat feel Hon? You doing OK?" "Yes, I'm fine." a little while later..."Is this far enough? We can go back if you're getting tired." "No. It's fine. I'm all right." Then as soon as you get home you get, "My rear end really hurts. We went too far. I haven't been riding like you y'know."

Please don't try to figure out why women do this. It's a total waste of time. Just know that it happens a lot and do your best to try to decipher what she *REALLY* means.

Good luck.


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## dburrell (Jul 13, 2008)

*I have a moonsaddle*

I agree with the post above about resisting change. I got the seat because being different or resisting change should never take precidence over health. 
I tried getting fitted and changing saddles, but found this just minimized the pain and numbness. 
I started researching on sites that stored medical journals and found that ALL noseless seats cut off arterial blood flow between 70-100 percent. This percentage seem to vary based on the rider body weight.
I made the dive and got the seat. I love it.
Imagine riding for hours with no numbness, and getting off the bike and not feeling like you have a roll of news paper between you leggs.
The new 2008 Moonsaddles have the 20 angle built into the seat. I found that 20 degrees is fine if you have an upright commuter bike or mountain bike. If you have road bike I recommend tilting the bike closer to 30 degrees. 
Oh and put the padded bike shorts in storage.
I am a larger man, 250 lbs, and ride 60 mils twice a week and 15 mountain miles once a week, with 10 or 6 mile sprints sprinkled in each week.


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## countrytoad (Aug 13, 2009)

*I have a moon saddle too*

I've been riding with a moon saddle for 5 years now. I do group rides, triathlons, and cross-country rides with it. And I get a lot of sh** from friends, but it's comfortable to ride on, and a saddle with a nose is not. I shouldn't let this out, but my friends call it The Mustache Ride.

It seems there are some misconceptions about this saddle. Two problems have been stated by people that have probably never used this saddle: that the ends get in the way and that the rider will slide forward. The rider sits on on the sit-bones, which means the rider sits on the middle of the saddle. The ends (or tips) are swept back so the thighs never come into contact with them. In fact, in my opinion, the ends or tips of the saddle are pointless. A better design would be a simple ledge to sit on. When riding I do sometimes standup and reposition myself more backward, but there is little sliding.

I've never seen anyone else with a moon saddle or any other noseless saddle. If you hate sitting on your junk (well, perineum) then it's great. I also can get into a more comfortable aero position and be comfortable there all day. The ONLY downside is the looks from other riders. Too bad cyclists can be so snobby.


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## PBike (Jul 6, 2007)

I am in utter disbelief. This is a thread talking of saddles and isn't anyone going to say it?

Brookes. 

Okay, sorry couldn't resist. I too believe mainly related to too much too soon. Adjustment could also play a factor in it. Shorter rides for a while until she gets used to it and be sure the bike is fitted properly and then play with saddle choices.


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## Fantino (Jul 30, 2008)

*anyone mention saddle width?*

The flat part of the saddle has to be at least as wide as the distance between your "sit bones." Those are the two bones you feel when you sit on a hard flat surface like a coffee table or wood bench (ischial tuberosities = sit bones.)

You can go to the LBS that sells Specialized & sit on a flat piece of memory foam then they measure the distance between the two dents in the foam. Or you can measure it at home. The width of the saddle's business end has more to do with comfort than the shape. 

If you want to measure at home, lay on your back with feet on the wall & knees bent 90 degrees. That posture relaxes the "sit muscles." You can then reach under with a ruler & you'll easily feel the two bony bumps.

Measure the sit bones then buy her a WS saddle (Terry or other brand) that is wide enough. . . You'll thank me later.


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## Pbnj (Jul 13, 2009)

tron said:


> I got her the women's comfort saddle from Nashbar (comes in pimk) and she couldnt stop talking about how comfortable it was.


That's because IMO women never ever complain when it's in pink


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

countrytoad said:


> I've been riding with a moon saddle for 5 years now. I do group rides, triathlons, and cross-country rides with it. And I get a lot of sh** from friends, but it's comfortable to ride on, and a saddle with a nose is not. I shouldn't let this out, but my friends call it The Mustache Ride.
> 
> It seems there are some misconceptions about this saddle. Two problems have been stated by people that have probably never used this saddle: that the ends get in the way and that the rider will slide forward. The rider sits on on the sit-bones, which means the rider sits on the middle of the saddle. The ends (or tips) are swept back so the thighs never come into contact with them. In fact, in my opinion, the ends or tips of the saddle are pointless. A better design would be a simple ledge to sit on. When riding I do sometimes standup and reposition myself more backward, but there is little sliding.
> 
> I've never seen anyone else with a moon saddle or any other noseless saddle. If you hate sitting on your junk (well, perineum) then it's great. I also can get into a more comfortable aero position and be comfortable there all day. The ONLY downside is the looks from other riders. Too bad cyclists can be so snobby.


Glad to see the thread inspired you to join the forums. Welcome (to 2009).


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

whooooaaa...i just googled it, and it's like the back half of a regular saddle! weeeeiiiirrd


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## Davidka1 (Oct 16, 2009)

Hi everyone! 

I DID BUY THAT MOON-SADDLE. I'M USING IT ABOUT A MONTH NOW.

1. The m.s. does eliminate the pressure on the perineum completely. That's a godsend salvation for me because I really suffered from the discomfort and even pain, and even worried about my health. Kudos!

2. In the beginning the ride was hard & rough, but I think I'm getting used to the hardness of the seat, and it doesn't bother me anymore. Also, thanx 2 the bike-man adjustment, I now lean forward on my hands much more than before, so I put less of the body weight on the seat. (My hands hurt a little and I don't know if it's how it's supposed 2 b, or not. Trying 2 figure out.)

3. Since I rely a lot on my hands (& feet) now, I don't feel at all that there's a problem with the control -- I control the bike with hands & feet, and the seat is there just 2 give me some little space 2 sit, so that I don't stand the whole time. It's definitely not made for sitting back and relaxing  It just helps u 2 stay connected 2 it by fixating your sit bones in those special grooves. Actually, I feel my ride lighter, loftier now than before, because I don't get "glued" 2 the seat with all my weight anymore. Also, this seat made in the way that it forces me 2 not slouch but maintain the correct "S" shape of the spine. And I don't feel tired because of this! This is important.

So, basically, I currently don't c the m.s. as "a lemon" and hope it'll stay that way 

Hope it's helpful to those of u considering buying this saddle.


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## steve m (Oct 26, 2005)

*Specialized plus Thudbuster*

We have a tandem. I got my wife fitted for a Specialized saddle, and purchased the short-travel thudbuster. We had to order the light-weight elastomer directly from Thudbuster. This has helped her comfort a lot. Previously she had the Terry Ti Butterfly saddle, with a rigid post.

We also use the tandem talk ipod walkie-talkie device. That is great for communication. I can tell her when to stand up and other stuff, while we listen to music in one ear.


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## Swish (Jul 31, 2004)

Davidka1 said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> I DID BUY THAT MOON-SADDLE. I'M USING IT ABOUT A MONTH NOW.
> 
> ...


Please make your product plugs a bit more subtle...the yellow thumb icon is representing a sore thumb I reckon


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## WWU (Oct 7, 2008)

Davidka1 said:


> I DID BUY THAT MOON-SADDLE. I'M USING IT ABOUT A MONTH NOW.


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## conifir (Apr 5, 2010)

*moonsaddle*

i have been using the moonsaddle for the last 4 yrs...
i have it mounted on my trek fuel mtb...
it is the cats meow...
it took a little bit to get it adjusted just right..
but i go on 60 to 80 mile rides with no problem...
i finally got my wife to try on on her trek mtb...
she loves it...
well worth the money...


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## EHietpas (Feb 9, 2012)

You realize this thread is oh.. 3 years old. Just saying... rrr:


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## zyzbot (Feb 3, 2004)

Gotta love all the single post sock puppets who joined this site just to post in this thread.


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## CheapTrek (Dec 23, 2011)

alee100 said:


> Has anybody tried the Moon Saddle?
> moonsaddle.com
> My wife and I just got a tandem. Took it for our first ride, about 16 miles, and the only problem was with her seat comfort level. I was wondering if this saddle is worth looking into.
> She has never been much of a biker, this was probably her first ride in 10 years, and her longest ever. I told her that everybody has some discomfort at first, but if I can reduce or eliminate that I think we are much more likely to stick with tandem riding. She was wearing decent bike shorts, and her position looked pretty good to me and a more experienced cyclist riding with us.
> ...


It's not the saddle that's the problem.

My friend was after me for a long time to ride with him on his tandem so we could crank it out in the pace line on our Sunday club ride. Although I did not relish the idea of staring at his posterior for 40 miles, I reluctantly agreed.

The ride started off fine and we kicked it hard on the flats. Hills were no fun but I had been forewarned about that so no shocker.

What I was not prepared for (as a guy who was riding 125 to 150 miles a week on my road bike), was for my ass to be in utter agony for the last 15 miles of the return trip.

It all boils down to the way I was positioned on the bike and I bet that's the problem you're having. When I'm on my road bike, I'm stretched out pretty far and my weight fairly evenly distributed between the handlebars, pedals, and saddle. As a stoker on a tandem however, replicating this position would have required my handlebars to be about a foot further forward which would have resulted in my head being located in the approximate region of my buddy's transverse colon. A situation neither of us were very interested in seeing come to fruition.

Not being able to be in the prone position, out over my handlebars not only transferred a great deal of that weight to my posterior but also prevented me from putting much weight on my pedals unless I was standing.


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## Sasquatch1000 (Dec 20, 2012)

CheapTrek wrote:"...As a stoker on a tandem however, replicating this position would have required my handlebars to be about a foot further forward which would have resulted in my head being located in the approximate region of my buddy's transverse colon..."​
haha, sounds like that bike frame is not large enough for you at the stoker position. I've got aerobars at the captain and stoker positions but it's a tall frame bike and my tallest stoker is 5' 10".

As for the MoonSaddles. My 'boys' love them and my stokers appreciate how kind they are to their 'girl parts.' In fact, I get a lot of women that are intrigued by the MoonSaddles and want me to take them for a ride so they can try it out. Works for me!
The stoker has a shock post in the event that I neglect to inform her about the railroad tracks that we are about to cross and I have never had a complaint from the rear admiral about saddle soreness. 

As with anything new, it took a week of tweaking technique for me to get acclimated to riding without a saddle nose between my legs but I the love the ability to ride 60+ miles in street clothing with less saddle fatigue than a 10 mile ride on Selle Gel Flite!
It's also a great compliment to riding while laying on aerobars.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

One traditional saddle that many fit women riders like is the Sella Italia Diva. My wife went through many saddle before finding this one and really liking it. 

Selle Italia :: DIVA « Selle Italia


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