# I keep busting wheelsets. rant.



## Hooben (Aug 22, 2004)

I've been riding bikes since way back in the 1980's and let me say that I am so tired of buying wheelsets. I weigh in at 210 lbs and use my carbon fiber bicycle for club riding, some sprinting, climbing, and fun rides. 
I've gone through Neuvation M28's (the rear wheel tacoed on me while riding 16mph on flats), Mavic CXP22's (the rim cracked a hole near the eyelet), and the latest is the Mavic Ksyrium Equipe (developed hairline cracks in 5 eyelets). I may add that at least Neuvation replaced the wheels for free.

My next purchase looks to be the Pure commuter wheelset with 32 holes triple cross spokes front and rear. I'm so sick of replacing wheels and loosing out on riding time. The Pure commuter is found at Bicycle Wheel Warehouse. Rant over.
Pure Commuter + Shimano hubs


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## twinkles (Apr 23, 2007)

You might want to consider picking up a cheap wheel truing stand, tensiometer, and spoke wrench. The key to spoke, rim, and nipple longevity is having correct spoke tension. Even if you aren't going to build your own wheels, you can go over your wheels to get them in optimal condition and if you break a spoke, you can replace it with ease.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

Hooben said:


> I've been riding bikes since way back in the 1980's and let me say that I am so tired of buying wheelsets. I weigh in at 210 lbs and use my carbon fiber bicycle for club riding, some sprinting, climbing, and fun rides.
> I've gone through Neuvation M28's (the rear wheel tacoed on me while riding 16mph on flats), Mavic CXP22's (the rim cracked a hole near the eyelet), and the latest is the Mavic Ksyrium Equipe (developed hairline cracks in 5 eyelets). I may add that at least Neuvation replaced the wheels for free.
> 
> My next purchase looks to be the Pure commuter wheelset with 32 holes triple cross spokes front and rear. I'm so sick of replacing wheels and loosing out on riding time. The Pure commuter is found at Bicycle Wheel Warehouse. Rant over.


If you had this number of wheel problems over 10,000 miles that would be pretty bad. If you had them over 100,000 miles it would be more than reasonable (though not great). You can build a very nice, reasonably light, high performance, and durable wheel with a number of different rims and 32 spokes.


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

So you weigh 210 lbs. and you're complaining as if it's the equipment's fault? I'm not gonna tell you to lose weight; for all I know you could be a lean 210.

I AM gonna tell you that you're asking high performance wheels to support unreasonable loads.

I'm gonna hazard a guess that the majority of your problems are with rear wheels. The first thing you need to do is run away from the minimal spoke designs and stick with MAYBE 32H, quite possibly 36H wheels.

Next, you need to use rims with offset spoke beds like the Velocity Synergy OC or A23 OC. By reducing the difference in tension between the drive side and non-drive side spokes you substantially reduce lopsided torque loads on the rim and increase wheel life. I've built them for friends and myself and can see the difference in wheel life.

An alternative to using the OC rims is to have a custom frame built with wider, 135mm rear hub spacing, which produces the same result while using more common, non-OC rims. My commuter frame is built this way.

Next, you CAN'T ride 23mm tires. As far as I'm concerned, even 25mm tires are too small. The tire's volume, IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE CORRECT TIRE PRESSURE, will increase wheel life considerably. Increasing the tire pressure on a 23mm tire to protect the wheel against your 210 lb. mass only transfers more force from bumps and potholes into the wheels. You want the tire's volume to absorb the impact and it can't do that while inflated to silly pressures to support your weight.

Honestly, I'd tell you to ride a minimum 26mm tire and a 28 would be better. And these larger tires would hardly be a handicap in your competitive rides. You're already hauling around 210 lbs. which is probably 40-50 lbs. more than most other cyclists. An extra pound or less of larger tires isn't going to make or break your rides.

But, you're gonna say those tire sized won't fit your bike, right? That merely means you're riding the wrong bike for your size. So if you want to continue to ride road racing style frames, you're going to have to work within the tire width limitations that go with such frames and the resultant poor wheel life or seek out another type of road bike.

My next suggestion would be to get a custom road bike built around normal reach sidepull brakes to accommodate the wider tires I recommended above. One such frame is the Hampsten Strada Bianca. Here's an excellent article that explains the Strada Bianca can still ride fast.

If you're on a budget, my next suggestion would be the Gunnar Sport.

Sorry for the tough love, but I feel it's the truth and the best solution.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Couldn't have said it better Peter, excellent advice! :thumbsup:


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## Carverbiker (Mar 6, 2013)

As a clyde myself (slightly heavier) I can say that I generally do not have problems with wheels, however I regularly put them in a truing stand to make sure they are evenly tensioned and ride nothing but 28c GP 4seasons inflated to 85-95 rear and 80-90 front. My everyday wheels are 32h front and rear although I do ride dura ace c24 and c50 which are 16/20h and have held up well over two years of riding. 

I grind up plenty of hills at low rpm and sprint at 1300 watts so I do not baby them, but I do ride light when going over bumps. My everyday wheels are velocity a23's 32h laced to powertap hubs, I think the 23mm rims make the 28c tires corner better and the lower pressure cushions both the ride and the rims.

Unfortunately, wheels do take more of a beating from clydes, but I believe a bit of preventative care and good equipment choices goes a long way to preventing catastrophic failure.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Best piece of advice I've read around here in a long time. No punches pulled nor should they have been. Everyone over 180lbs should read this.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

I'm currently 235 (fat) and I regularly ride on three different wheelsets, Cosmic Carbones, Campy Zonda, and 3X32 open pros on Chorus hubs. No issues. The Zondas are six years old and have never needed truing, just a bearing adjustment on the rear hub. Carbones are battle wheels, maybe one of the best production wheels ever. They are heavy by today's standards. 3X32, can't go wrong. I run 25mm tires on the rear and a 23mm on the front due to fork clearance. Most of my weight is on the rear wheel. Light wheels need not apply.


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## Hooben (Aug 22, 2004)

Thanks guys, so I'll sell my carbon bike and buy the Hampsten and ride on size 28 tires. Better yet, I think I'll go ride my cruiser bike around the park. Guess I don't have to be a part of this forum anymore. 

Hey everyone, take care.... you wont see me around here anymore.:thumbsup:


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Hooben said:


> Thanks guys, so I'll sell my carbon bike and buy the Hampsten and ride on size 28 tires. Better yet, I think I'll go ride my cruiser bike around the park. Guess I don't have to be a part of this forum anymore.
> 
> Hey everyone, take care.... you wont see me around here anymore.:thumbsup:


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Hooben said:


> Thanks guys, so I'll sell my carbon bike and buy the Hampsten and ride on size 28 tires. Better yet, I think I'll go ride my cruiser bike around the park. Guess I don't have to be a part of this forum anymore.
> 
> Hey everyone, take care.... you wont see me around here anymore.:thumbsup:


Wow, are you really that butthurt from getting the best advice i've ever seen on this forum? You should be thanking Peter for his post.


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## allenpg (Sep 13, 2006)

Have you talked to a pro wheel builder? They can help recommend the right rim, spokes, etc. based on your body, how you ride, etc. I know a few guys that race at your size and swear by the Hed Clydesdale builds. One of the guys had the nickname of the "Bike Destroyer" since he's broken just about every part of his bike.

BTW, have you gotten quotes/advice from wheelbuilder.com, zencyclery.com, ergottwheels.com, etc.?

Good luck and hope you find a wheelset that works for you!


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Peter P. said:


> So you weigh 210 lbs. and you're complaining as if it's the equipment's fault? I'm not gonna tell you to lose weight; for all I know you could be a lean 210.
> 
> I AM gonna tell you that you're asking high performance wheels to support unreasonable loads.
> 
> ...



Good post. :thumbsup:

Unfortunately, "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Peter P. again."


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## changingleaf (Aug 20, 2009)

None of the wheels you listed are particularly higher end. Some of the parts are light and there's usually not as much quality control in that price range.

You're a perfect candidate for a custom wheelset. Built for you. Ride the wheels you want to ride.

I agree with others posters that you and the life of your wheels will benefit from a little larger tires.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Mike T. said:


> Best piece of advice I've read around here in a long time. No punches pulled nor should they have been. *Everyone over 180lbs should read this*.


Some of that advice is going to come as a shock to Cancellara, Boonen and Greipel. Although they don't have the power or ride as hard as most of us so maybe that's how they'd gotten away with it.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Jay Strongbow said:


> Some of that advice is going to come as a shock to Cancellara, Boonen and Greipel. Although they don't have the power or ride as hard as most of us so maybe that's how they'd gotten away with it.


I wonder how long a set of wheels lasts them. I notice they always have following cars (with spare wheels!) - even, many times, in training. I'll bet they wouldn't have to walk home from a training ride. I wonder how many of their own sets of wheels they buy. I wonder if any minuscule gain from low-spoke wheels means more to them than us average joe riders.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Mike T. said:


> I wonder how long a set of wheels lasts them. I notice they always have following cars (with spare wheels!) - even, many times, in training. I'll bet they wouldn't have to walk home from a training ride. I wonder how many of their own sets of wheels they buy. I wonder if any minuscule gain from low-spoke wheels means more to them than us average joe riders.


I was referring more to the part about road race frames being the wrong bike not spoke counts. I acutally seem to remember reading that Boonen used 36 spokes for one of the cobble races but don't quote me on that.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Jay Strongbow said:


> Some of that advice is going to come as a shock to Cancellara, Boonen and Greipel. Although they don't have the power or ride as hard as most of us so maybe that's how they'd gotten away with it.


They all weigh in right at 180. Not over 180. 

I'm sure they never damage wheels, break spokes, or crack spoke holes. But if they do, they'd probably complain on the interwebs about it rather than get new free wheels from their mechanics every day.


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

The guy is 210, not 600...

I had only minor truing issues with Bontrager Race Lites (and 23s) when I was 245+. The only time I broke a spoke (front) was when I dropped into a 3" pothole in NYC.


Will what you suggest work? Yes. Is it absolutely necessary as you suggest? Absolutely not.



Peter P. said:


> So you weigh 210 lbs. and you're complaining as if it's the equipment's fault? I'm not gonna tell you to lose weight; for all I know you could be a lean 210.
> 
> I AM gonna tell you that you're asking high performance wheels to support unreasonable loads.
> 
> ...


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

Mike T. said:


> I wonder how long a set of wheels lasts them. I notice they always have following cars (with spare wheels!) - even, many times, in training. I'll bet they wouldn't have to walk home from a training ride. I wonder how many of their own sets of wheels they buy. I wonder if any minuscule gain from low-spoke wheels means more to them than us average joe riders.


This is flat out wrong. Pros do many, many miles of training without a follow vehicle.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

jsedlak said:


> The guy is 210, not 600...
> 
> I had only minor truing issues with Bontrager Race Lites (and 23s) when I was 245+. The only time I broke a spoke (front) was when I dropped into a 3" pothole in NYC.
> 
> ...


Then why does he keep busting wheelsets? (3 different brands). You wouldn't propose all 3 were faulty would you?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

jsedlak said:


> This is flat out wrong. Pros do many, many miles of training without a follow vehicle.


And it's flat out right too. I've seen lots of vids of individual pros and pro teams with following car(s). I've seen vid of Lance back in Texas (back in the day) with a following car. Yeah I'm sure they do a lot of kms without a car as well.


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

tlg said:


> Then why does he keep busting wheelsets? (3 different brands). You wouldn't propose all 3 were faulty would you?


I can't say as there is not enough (read: no) background information given about the problem. My point was only to suggest that 210lbs is not enough weight to suggest it as being the entire problem. Those Mavics aren't even close to being limited to weight-weenies.



> Yeah I'm sure they do a lot of kms without a car as well.


That was my only point. I think we both agree here... time to move on.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

There are other factors, more important than rider weight, that cause wheels to break.

Consider these two riders:

Rider A - 150 lbs, masher, rides on big gears all the time, rocks the bike side to side when climbing, never unweights his weight from the bike when hitting a pothole or a bump on the road. He rides a 28 spoke hand-built wheel, 450 gr rim, 20mm tires at 120psi.

Rider B - 210 lbs, spinner, climbs with higher cadence and on the saddle, takes his weight off the saddle when its unavoidable hitting a pothole. He rides the same wheels as rider A but with 25mm tires at 110psi.

Do you think the rider A wheels will outlive the rider B wheels just because rider A is 60 lbs lighter than rider B?


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

I'm 145 lbs. I kill rear wheels. I don't mash and I hop over obstacles but I rock the bike when I stand on climbs. And I do a lot of climbing (a million feet a year) and a lot of standing. Steep climbs and low gearing put a lot of torque through the wheel.

My powertap hub is 6 years old and has been built 6 times. The builds last about 6000-7000 miles which is about 9 months. I started doing it myself. I can do as well as the LBS. I got a crank based power meter so I could build my own wheels and so I could spread the load across more than one wheel. I build training rear wheels with 28h aero rims (larger cross section makes a stiffer rim). I have been experimenting with different lacing patterns to see what works best for me.

Who uses 20mm tires these days? They suck. I run 23s at 90-100 psi.


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

I'd like to thank the 5 people that rep'd me. I don't say that to brag but to point out that when a number of people have a similar opinion, it might be more valid than we would like to believe.

I'd also like to think the OP's reply was in jest because of the emoticon.

I've probably built over 100 pairs of wheels in my 30 years of building. Am I an expert?-by no means, but my experience is reasonably deep, and I've seen "problem riders" whose equipment doesn't last long.

As was pointed out by other posters; there are people who sit on a bike like dead weight; nothing survives. Could the OP be one of them? My experience is, usually the rider themselves has no clue of how they "sit" on a bike but it's obvious to others.

Contrary to what others contend, I believe we only see a small portion of the story with regard to the wheel life of pro riders. We only see them ride 100 miles on a bike. Wheels can be examined, repaired, or tossed, daily by the mechanics. Replacing equipment for them is done without batting an eyelash, and the manufacturers would soon prefer the public not hear about products with short lifespans which is why we never get data about how long wheel X lasted under a rider.

If the OP keeps breaking wheels, we have to start looking at what the common denominator is. That's either the rest of the bike or the rider. I don't think the rest of the bike can be a contributor to poor wheel longevity.


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## Bigfred* (Jun 29, 2013)

Even before Peter's initial reply, I looked at that list of lower to mid level wheels and initially thought, "Get some good, quality training wheels."

The rims that immediately come to mind include:

DT Swiss: 585, 465 and 440 OC
HED: Belgium C2
Pacenti: SL23
Velocity: Deep V, Synergy OC

Any of those in 32h, laced up with 14/15 DB spokes and brass nipples to some Shimano cup and cone hubs or any of the well respected boutique hubs of your choice should be good for 20,000+ miles with reasonably little maintenance.

The catch will be who builds them and how good a job they do. Since doing as one poster suggested and purchasing my own tension meter, stand and wrench I've had very few issues with any of the wheels I've built for myself and when I do it's quick and easy to rectify them.

If you're unhappy with the results you've been getting from your current decissions, the obvious course is to change your approach in some way. In this case that's definately NOT going to be toward lighter, low spoke count alternatives. It should be toward some quality training rims built by yourself or an extremely competent and well regarded "wheelsmith".


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## weiwentg (Feb 3, 2004)

Hooben said:


> Thanks guys, so I'll sell my carbon bike and buy the Hampsten and ride on size 28 tires. Better yet, I think I'll go ride my cruiser bike around the park. Guess I don't have to be a part of this forum anymore.
> 
> Hey everyone, take care.... you wont see me around here anymore.:thumbsup:


It seems pretty obvious that your reply was in jest. But seriously, you are 200 lbs. 25 or 28c tires will not slow you down appreciably compared to 23s unless you are averaging 25+ mph in a time trial or off the front at 25+ mph in a road race.

I'm 120 lbs. I ride 25c tires. Everyone can. A lot of people should. And I would be surprised if your frame doesn't have sufficient clearance, unless you have something like a Cervelo S5 which has that seat tube fairing.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

I'd say the OP has justification to build custom wheels, that should be a good thing. The parts will be easier to service and swap out in the event of problems, and you'll have a wheelset unlike any other and best suited to you. Win.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Hooben said:


> Thanks guys, so I'll sell my carbon bike and buy the Hampsten and ride on size 28 tires. Better yet, I think I'll go ride my cruiser bike around the park. Guess I don't have to be a part of this forum anymore.
> 
> Hey everyone, take care.... you wont see me around here anymore.:thumbsup:


Honestly there are a lot of really obnoxious people on this forum. 

I kept busting spokes on my Specialized wheels that were rated for up to a 240 pounder. I was never over 200 on them and most recently broke one at 175 which is where I still am. 

I got a set of custom wheels built up. Have not had a problem yet. (Knock on wood). Going to pick the bike up from the original dealer for a different issue but hopefully it is all good still. 

Talk to a good wheel builder. Get something sturdy but you don't need to ride a cargo bike.


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## vagabondcyclist (Apr 2, 2011)

Peter P. said:


> Contrary to what others contend, I believe we only see a small portion of the story with regard to the wheel life of pro riders. We only see them ride 100 miles on a bike. Wheels can be examined, repaired, or tossed, daily by the mechanics. Replacing equipment for them is done without batting an eyelash, and the manufacturers would soon prefer the public not hear about products with short lifespans which is why we never get data about how long wheel X lasted under a rider.


Exactly. At the top levels and even at the national level, the amount of attention and care race equipment gets is top notch. Everything is inspected, cleaned, adjusted, and inspected again after every stage. The mechanics working at the international level are among the best the in the world. 

How many of us wash, fully inspect, adjust, and inspect again all of our components and frames after every single ride? Once a week? Take a look at the support buses and trailers that travel with pro national and international teams. 

And all those flats in a race might not be flats. They might be wheel issues--broken spoke, etc. As Peter P says, it's in the manufactures' and thus the teams' interest to call such incidents flats unless is obvious that it's the wheel at fault.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

NJBiker72 said:


> Honestly there are a lot of really obnoxious people on this forum.


You should see bikeforums.net...


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## cyclintruckin (Feb 10, 2012)

I think the OP's response was kinda hasty. There are a lot of people on these forums that act like if you are over XXX amount of weight you shouldn't even be on a bike. I don't know why he could be killing so many wheels, I am 6'3" 230lbs (I would look like a stick @ 180) and ride 20f/24r wheels and have no problems. I am not saying I won't have any problems but for now so far so good until I can afford a custom set of 28f/32r


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

SystemShock said:


> You should see bikeforums.net...


Damn, maybe i should haul my obnoxious *ss over there...


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

+1... I used to ride M28s and I used to have spoke issues until I received the M28 Aero 3s. You need to visit Clydesdale forums like the one on Bikeforums.net. I'm not trying to promote them, but as a Clydesdale, you need to look to other Clydesdale for answers like this. My M28 Aero 3s haven't stranded me once in the 5 years I've owned them. Take heed to the advice about proper spoke tension. That's going to go a long way, especially with low spoke count wheels. 

You're switching to 32 spoke 3 cross. I'm pretty sure you won't have an issue with them. Many will say that they are an overkill but there is no such thing as an overkill when you're 200+ in weight. Those wheels should be fine. You'll at least be able to ride with the piece of mind that you won't be doing the walk of shame anymore.


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## flummoxer (Jul 8, 2013)

Speaking to the OP question, I've had good luck with the mavic aksiums and am in the 190 - 200 lb range, depending on time of year. Previous wheels would all break in 1-2 years, but the older aksium wheelset i have has lasted going on 7 years now with minimal trueing. 

Mavic tech docs rate it up to 220 lbs rider + gear not including bike, I put several thousand miles on it working my way back from an injury when i'd balooned up to 225. Still had no problems. Though, they rated the ksyriums to the same weight.


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## masont (Feb 6, 2010)

I, for one, am shocked that a big guy riding cheap wheels would have trouble with them.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

masont said:


> I, for one, am shocked that a big guy riding cheap wheels would have trouble with them.


210 lbs isn't all *that* big. Wheelsets shouldn't be dying under him right n' left.

Can only think there's some extenuating factors...

1) he's very powerful, and/or
2) he rides some truly sh!tty roads, and/or
3) low-spoke count wheels w/too-light rims... 'nuff said


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

I guess at 260 pounds my wheels are ticking time bombs. While riding at my highest weight of 320, I'm lucky to be around. 

Seriously though, I though the advise given was great. I have been planning to up the tire size on my wheels, which are the stock wheelset that came on my Spec. Allez. Eventually I'd like to get a new set built that I can ride on with 100% confidence. Being a super clyde mountain biker, I can certainly appreciate a high quality wheel built.


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## skitorski (Dec 4, 2012)

The OP said Neuvation replaced the wheel, but he never followed up on that. He tacoed it, how ? I am at 190lbs and have zero problems riding my 20/24s with 23mm at 110 psi.


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## Tachycardic (Mar 31, 2013)

OP said that he has been riding since the '80s and he's bought 3 wheel sets, 2 of which developed cracks near the eyelets. Am I the only one that thinks that this is par for the course? Except for the Neuvation that failed catastrophically, I would say 3 wheel sets in almost 30 years is a non-issue.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Tachycardic said:


> OP said that he has been riding since the '80s and he's bought 3 wheel sets, 2 of which developed cracks near the eyelets. Am I the only one that thinks that this is par for the course? Except for the Neuvation that failed catastrophically, I would say 3 wheel sets in almost 30 years is a non-issue.


OP said he's been riding since the '80s, but he didn't say that he'd had only 3 wheelsets in all that time. 

Don't think Neuvations or Ksyrium Equipes were around back then either.


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## Tachycardic (Mar 31, 2013)

SystemShock said:


> OP said he's been riding since the '80s, but he didn't say that he'd had only 3 wheelsets in all that time.
> 
> Don't think Neuvations or Ksyrium Equipes were around back then either.


That's fair, but he's only complaining about 3 wheel sets, which I think is totally reasonable if he's been riding since the 80s.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Tachycardic said:


> That's fair, but he's only complaining about 3 wheel sets, which I think is totally reasonable if he's been riding since the 80s.


We won't get to find out the actual timeframe for those 3 wheelsets dying (or if more died over those 30 years), due to the OP getting butthurt and leaving in a huff.


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