# Dogma 2... Special.. Very...



## vboy19 (Mar 24, 2008)

If you build it.. it will come... More pictures to follow... it's heave because of the battery.. Thanks again to Winter Park Cycles, Carbon Lord (helping me out in a pinch) and Fairwheel Bikes.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

You should post this in the Campagnolo forum, they'll go nuts! 

Clavicula crank.? Whoooooo


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## bernardez (Mar 2, 2007)

*What's the rest of the build?*

Sub-14# with cages and EPS! More pics?


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

That...is...sick.

Very nice, man!


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## vboy19 (Mar 24, 2008)

can't seem to upload the pics using Flickr URL, goodness.


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## antihero77 (Jul 26, 2011)

What do u have on that bike to have such a low weight?


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## vboy19 (Mar 24, 2008)

This is what I have that makes it so light .. Special thanks to Ward Bates and his team at Winter Park Cycles and Jason Woznick at Fairwheel bikes.. more to follow/in depth review.. Just need to find a third party that will make a lighter batter


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## supraholic (Oct 10, 2010)

I really hope you race this rig like a bat out of hell


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Do you notice any difference with the Nokon housing?

Which wheels do you prefer, the Enve or Zipp?


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## antihero77 (Jul 26, 2011)

You bought the dogma special edition very nice. Picking up my doggie next week will post pics


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## antihero77 (Jul 26, 2011)

Hey vboy looks like u got the eps after all. Nice build


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## Naixed (Apr 10, 2012)

I love how this bike isn't so gaudy with all those goddamned stickers and crazy colorways allowing all passerbys know what you ride. Keeping it low key but at the same time exudes serious business! If you don't mind me asking how much for a setup like yours?


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## vboy19 (Mar 24, 2008)

Thanks for all the comments.. So finally had some time to write a review and answer the some questions(***DISCLAIMER... sorry for the grammar mistakes, didn't have time to fully check everything, I wanted to post as soon as I could.) 

Frame: Last year I bought the dogma 60.1 it was white and wasn't really expecting to buy the Dogma 2. Is there a difference? The bike is slightly lighter not noticeably, the ride quality is still smooth and amazing. What I notice the most is the wiliness of the bike to corner more (I know sounds strange). As all of you are aware they integrated the fork with the frame better. The design looks better and more fluid. I think the fairing while being aerodynamic added weight to the front end, making the bike turn in quicker on the corners. 

Build: I picked some of the lightest parts to help offset the weight of the battery and electrical wiring from the new EPS system. Unfortunately, the weight of the battery and wiring brings the build weight to the same weight of my prior Dogma. If I used the cable system on the Dogma 2 the weight would be around 13.6 pounds. I know not much of a difference but when you are picking lightweight parts everything counts  I think the only way to get the bike lighter is going down routes that make it a little less ride-able or hard to service locally (i.e. Ax lightness, veloflex tubulars, Dash hubs, etc.). 

Alligator I-links: I used these for the brake housing, and the only difference from the Campy setup is that the brake feel is a little more on the firm side. There is less modulation and I think this is probably due to a slightly smaller housing diameter. The Cables are great so far, but we will see issues with longer term use.


Wheels: Same wheels as last year, had the decals changed on the ENVE 1.45 tubulars. I use the 202's more for my every day wheels, they are a little less stiff then the ENVE wheels. Both sets are really amazing, I had Fairwheel bikes build me custom sets of wheels, the 202's are 98 grams lighter than OEM, built with sapim spokes and extralite hubs. The Enve's weigh 970 grams built with extralight hubs and sapim spokes. The ENVE are 20/24 setup and are very stiff and strong. I used both sets around Chicago and they have been able to withstand the crappy roads within the city. 

Campy EPS: I didn't really know what to expect with the groupset, and in fact before I purchased it I wasn't really sold on the idea of electronic systems. I have ridden Dura Ace/ Sram Red,and my Dogma last year had the Campy SR TI system. Ever since I switched over to Campy last year, I didn't think there was a better group set out there. I think many riders will have their opinions on the greatest groupo. Campy's cable system is super fast and allows you to shift through most/if not all the cogs with two clicks of the shifter. Before I received my new bike this year, I was already doubting the electrical system, I read some of early tests and thought it was going to be slower. 

All I have to say is that I WAS WRONG (I know I am a Campy user so you may think my opinion is skewed)... The shifts are very fast, and extremely precise, and remember I am using a THM Clavicula Crank w/ Praxis Chain rings and a KCNC chain, so you would think there is a lot of variability with in terms of issues with the system. Early ride reports from cyclingnews.com, velonews and other journal sources indicated that there was a tendency at times where the rider can press the shift buttons with no response, and I do agree that can happen (very rare). I think the issue has to do with the rider getting used to the limited throw of the shift buttons when compared to the cable system. If you don't make proper contact at times you can see where the system might replicate this problem. Ride reports indicate that the there is a lag with the multishift. Yes I can confirm that, but it's not really noticeable. I think for that millisecond in lag, there is no way that any rider on any cable system can dump 11 gears that quickly. Remember, on the SR TI cable system, I think, takes 2 throws of the shifter to get all the way through the cassette, on the electrical system it only takes a press of the button. When is the multishit most noticeable, when you are pulling up to a stop light with less than a foot to stop and you forgot to get out of your hardest gear, just press the button and within your last pedal stroke you are at better gear when the light turns green. Of course there are other applications, but this one is one of my favorites . If you have the money to upgrade, I would say go for it, the weight penalty of the electrical system is nothing when you feel how quiet and smooth the shifting is. 

Cons of the system: 

The battery is heavy, and I am waiting for a third party to modify it. Sure everyone is going to make fun of me when they see my bike weighs 13.98 pounds, but remember, my prior dogma weighed the same and when you have a light weight bike you notice the little things. For example, I know/feel the weight at the center of the bike because the battery sits on the down tube, and no it doesn't affect the ride quality of the bike. One thing to think about with the Dogma (in my opinion) the bike feels a little heavier in the rear. I had a Madone 6.9 and one thing that was great about that bike was that it felt very light both front and rear. When you ride either versions of the Dogma they both seem to carry a little bit of the load in the rear. Why is this important? If you get a set of Zipp 404's/ 303s and are using the new EPS system then you are definitely going to feel the pull right off the gate. So when building your bike, with EPS or DI2 be mindful of the battery pack.

Campy.. once tuned the system is awesome, I haven't messed with the rider settings simply because the system works perfectly with my wheels, and most importantly my crank. I owe the guys at Winter Park Cycles for getting the system to work with the THM Crank, and I am not sure how they explained it to Campy since I wasn't using the OEM crank. If you get a THM crank (which I really recommend) just remind your dealer that there is a setting on the front der. to adjust the cage for wider crank sets.

Shifters: I think I'm still adjusting the rotation of my handle bars but I don't find the inner thumb trigger that reachable while in the Drops. This is where I think DI2 has a bigger advantage over Campy in terms of ergonomics. Shimano did well with allowing the rider to have the choice of Sprint shifters or shifters on the bar. After all, this is one of the biggest benefits of electrical systems, giving the rider more options to place the shifters where ever is more comfortable. On a side-note, does any know if you can adjust the position of the brake lever (i.e. bringing it inwards closer to the handle bar?). 

DI2 Vs. Campy EPS: I have never ridden Shimano's version, but when it came out on the market everyone was raving about it. Which one is better??? EPS.. Why?? It's lighter, and most importantly MULTI SHIFT.. I cannot tell you how amazing it is until you ride it. I will say this, Shimano's next version of DI2 will probably kick some @SS, simply because it will have multishift, have numerous positions for riders to place shifters, and will be 11-speed. Campy will have to stay ahead, but in the electronic world after multi-shift there really isn't many other places to improve groupsets. I can see the loss of the electric cables, lighter weight and faster shifting as the next biggest improvements. I know both groups EPS and DI2 are an experience in themselves, Shimano will catch up to Campy but both electric gruppos are a huge improvement over cable.

Dealers: When it came time to purchase my Dogma 60.1 last year, I visited and contacted several dealers both in the states and in Canada. Many dealers didn't allow me to custom spec my bike and most importantly weren't always giving me the best pricing. Some of them seemed more inclined to sell me on products their vendors were selling rather than even hear what I had to say in terms of the parts I wanted to place on the bike. Both Dogma's were built with the work of two amazing dealers. Ward and his team at Winter Park let me pick the parts and provided valuable feed back on aspects they thought wouldn't work but at the same time were willing to figure out a solution.

Jason at Fairwheel Bikes.. I think I probably drove the man nuts with the amount of emails on questions relating to the lightest wheel builds to educating me on hub technology. He didn't sell me the lightest items in his inventory, he helped me pick the some of the lightest and most usable products on the market. 

I don't get paid by either dealer to post here nor have I met either of them in person, all I get is a hole in my finances and an awesome bike that I am very fortunate to have. The reason I have some cool builds is because of the time and patience of these two dealer to make one cyclists dream a reality and I thought I would share their work with all of you.


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

vboy19 said:


> The battery is heavy, and I am waiting for a third party to modify it.


Remember that unlike Di2, the electronic control unit is housed with the battery...


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## vboy19 (Mar 24, 2008)

flatlander_48 said:


> Remember that unlike Di2, the electronic control unit is housed with the battery...


Yes I know .. some one will figure it out... some one.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

vboy19 said:


> Shifters: I think I'm still adjusting the rotation of my handle bars but I don't find the inner thumb trigger that reachable while in the Drops. This is where I think DI2 has a bigger advantage over Campy in terms of ergonomics. Shimano did well with allowing the rider to have the choice of Sprint shifters or shifters on the bar. After all, this is one of the biggest benefits of electrical systems, giving the rider more options to place the shifters where ever is more comfortable. On a side-note, does any know if you can adjust the position of the brake lever (i.e. bringing it inwards closer to the handle bar?).


The issue may not be the shifters but your choice of bar. Compared to a Deda RHM bend the 3T seem to cut away from the bottom of the lever very sharply thus putting your chad further back relative to the thumb button.


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