# Some questions about the 2012 Roubaix



## mrkartoom (Oct 25, 2012)

I'm looking for my first road bike and have a couple newb questions about the Roubaix's. I was in a LBS today asking about the version with the 105 group, which would be about the extent of my budget for a new bike if going by 2013 list pricing. The salesperson I spoke with confirmed the Roubaix would be a great bike for my purposes and then started talking about SL2, SL3 and SL4 frames, and the 2012 models they have in stock. I've been looking at the Specialized current website and only see references to SL4 frames, which I've discovered via another thread here equates to one of their FACT 10 or 11 frame builds. The salesperson then mentioned I could get a 2012 with Ultegra group for around $2500, which is the list price for a 2013 Roubaix Elite w/105. I tried to check on the Specialized archive site for the 2012 model he may have been talking about and see if that would be a good deal, but there is no pricing listed there.

One question I have is would this be a good deal for a 2012? Also would it make sense for someone like me who will be doing mainly recreational riding with lots of climbing and elevation changes to opt for Ultegra over the 105 version? I understand Ultegra is lighter, but I'm not sure about durability or available gearing options for climbing of one group vs the other.

Thanks for any feedback.


----------



## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

you'd be better with the SRAM Apex groupset, as it would come with the compact crank with 11-32t cassette configuration aka WiFLi


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

A couple of thoughts...

Find out the exact 2012 model the LBS is offering for $2500. The reason I say this is because the Comp is a mix of 105 and Ultegra and listed for $3300, while the Expert is full Ultegra and listed for $3900. I suspect it's the former, so the $2500 represents a decent discount, but IMO the specs aren't going to get you much over the 2013 (105) model that MSRP's for $2500.

Re: the groupsets and climbing, that's really a non-issue. Far more important than the minor finish/ weight differences between groupsets is the gearing, which (ideally) matches the riders fitness and terrain. 

Re: the SRAM Apex group mentioned, while I agree that it has a broader (gearing) capability than some other groupsets, it's nothing that Shimano's 10 speed Tiagra can't match, so an alternative to consider if you opt for a 2013 model.


----------



## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

Tiagra 4600 is 30t compatible (I don't think it was used by Specialized much in 2012).... but... somehow, maybe in the dropout design, the 2013 has a 105 rear derailleur with a Tiagra 11-32t cassette (according to the specialized mobile website).... so it may have a 5700A (105 rear derailleur)


----------



## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

I believe this is the 2012 Roubaix that lists for $3300. I actually think $2500 is a heck of a deal for that bike. You could probably upgrade the brakes and front derailleur for around $100-150 on ebay or CL if you want a "full" Ultegra setup (cassettes and chains don't matter in my book.) But yeah, Ultegra is officially rated for a 28 tooth low gear but you can usually safely go 1-2 teeth past that with Shimano derailleurs.

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/archive/2012/roubaix/roubaixcompcompact#specs


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

tednugent said:


> Tiagra 4600 is 30t compatible (I don't think it was used by Specialized much in 2012).... but... somehow, maybe in the dropout design, the 2013 has a 105 rear derailleur with a Tiagra 11-32t cassette (according to the specialized mobile website).... so it may have a 5700A (105 rear derailleur)


Both (current) Tiagra and 105 RD's have a max cog capacity of 30T, but as your comment re: the use of a 32T cassette attests, Shimano specs are very conservative.

BTW, total tooth capacity changes with RD cage lengths (SS/ GS), not max cog capacity. 

http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t...0A/SI-5XN0A-001-Eng_v1_m56577569830746860.pdf


----------



## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

Get an SL4, its the best they have to offer.
Don't buy yesterday's groceries.


----------



## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> Both (current) Tiagra and 105 RD's have a max cog capacity of 30T, but as your comment re: the use of a 32T cassette attests, Shimano specs are very conservative.


I'm willing to bet in an OEM application like the Roubaix they spec'd the mid-cage 105 derailleur rated for a 32T cassette. Given how close that model is in price to the Apex equipped Roubaix I'm betting it's no coincidence that they wanted a wide range cassette for those who prefer Shimano to SRAM. I'm actually very seriously considering purchasing that very 2013 Roubaix model.


----------



## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

the regular 5700 iirc has a max tooth capacity of 28T, unless you get the 5700A (30T)

yes, chain wrap capacity is dependent on GS or SS version


----------



## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

tednugent said:


> the regular 5700 iirc has a max tooth capacity of 28T, unless you get the 5700A (30T)


The 2012+ 105 rear derailleur is rated for 30T and the mid-cage version is rated for 32T. I presume in response to SRAM Apex. Shimano still haven't bothered to update their site though.


----------



## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

length of cage doesn't change the total chain wrap capacity for 5700*A* and 4600

SS = 34T (ie double or compact)
GS = 39T (triple)

consequent the largest rear cog allows for 25t to 30t range... so a 11-23t cassette is not ideal


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Dunbar said:


> I'm willing to bet in an OEM application like the Roubaix *they spec'd the mid-cage 105 derailleur rated for a 32T cassette*. Given how close that model is in price to the Apex equipped Roubaix I'm betting it's no coincidence that they wanted a wide range cassette for those who prefer Shimano to SRAM. I'm actually very seriously considering purchasing that very 2013 Roubaix model.


You're confusing things. There is no Shimano RD rated at 32T max cog. As Ted mentioned, depending on model, either 28 or 30T, but you can run 32T on one rated for 30T. 

SS or GS (short/ mid) cage don't matter for cog capacity. That only affects total tooth capacity.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

tednugent said:


> length of cage doesn't change the total chain wrap capacity for 5700*A* and 4600
> 
> SS = 34T (ie double or compact)
> GS = 39T (triple)
> ...


I wasn't clear on that and went back and edited my previous post, changing 'model' to 'cage lengths', but cage length _does_ change total tooth capacity (34 versus 39).


----------



## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

yeah, I screwed up also

length of cage only changes the max chain wrap capacity, it does not change the max cog it can handle


----------



## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

Guys, the latest 105 is now rated for 30T SS and 32T GS. I have no idea why Shimano still hasn't updated their website. The 2013 Sora is now STI, with no more thumb shifters, but you wouldn't know that from their website.

_"• Shimano 105 – now includes 10-speed rear derailleurs supporting 30T compatibility (short cage) and 32T cassettes (mid cage)._"

http://www.roadbikeaction.com/Lates...Shimno-News-More-Di2-Electronic-Shifting.html


----------



## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

RBA is wrong.

I have the technical spec sheet from Shimano which came with my 2013 cannondale CAADX Tiagra (4600) which I can take a pic of tomorrow

that is where I am quoting from


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

tednugent said:


> RBA is wrong.


I agree. The mechanics of how RD's work hasn't changed, so cage length isn't going to affect max cog capacity.

I think they may be being misled by the fact that some OE drivetrains are equipped with 32T cogs, which we've already covered.


----------



## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

Sigh...the info came from a Shimano press release...you can find it all over the internet. The 105 info on Shimano's North American website is for the 2011 model year. I test rode a 2013 Roubaix with the 2013 Sora and can personally attest to the fact that the thumb shifters are gone...


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Dunbar said:


> Sigh...the info came from a Shimano press release...you can find it all over the internet. The 105 info on Shimano's North American website is for the 2011 model year. I test rode a 2013 Roubaix with the 2013 Sora and can personally attest to the fact that the thumb shifters are gone...


The info below is more current, and doesn't support your (or RBA) claims.

http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t...0A/SI-5XN0A-001-Eng_v1_m56577569830746860.pdf

If you can locate the press release, please post it, but even if it mirrors what RBA has published, that doesn't mean it's accurate.


----------



## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> The info below is more current, and doesn't support your (or RBA) claims.
> 
> http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t...0A/SI-5XN0A-001-Eng_v1_m56577569830746860.pdf


The date on the bottom right corner of that document says it's from January of 2011.


----------



## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

Dunbar said:


> Sigh...the info came from a Shimano press release...you can find it all over the internet. The 105 info on Shimano's North American website is for the 2011 model year. I test rode a 2013 Roubaix with the 2013 Sora and can personally attest to the fact that the thumb shifters are gone...


press release: post a link to shimano's website that has the press release that details what RBA is stating

we are not talking about the Sora in the first replace. plus it is now a 9-speed instead of 8-speed. some trickle down technology from the old Tiagra 4500


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Dunbar said:


> The date on the bottom right corner of that document says it's from January of 2011.


Good catch (and good eyes), but I'll stand by my previous posts till someone provides _reliable_ documentation to the contrary.


----------



## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

oh by the way, the 8-speed shifter on the old Sora *are* STI shifters.


----------



## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

tednugent said:


> oh by the way, the 8-speed shifter on the old Sora *are* STI shifters.


According to the official Shimano website they still use thumb shifters to this day. So there you go.

BTW, you brought up Tiagra which isn't particularly relevant to 105...


----------



## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

Dunbar said:


> According to the official Shimano website they still use thumb shifters to this day. So there you go.
> 
> BTW, you brought up Tiagra which isn't particularly relevant to 105...


you are wrong on 2 things

STI means the shifter and brake levers are integrated into a single unit, annoying thumb shifter or not

PJ mentioned Tiagra, nonetheless, 105-5600 technology trickled down to the Tiagra when it went from 4500 (9-speed) to 4600 (10-speed). it is nearly as good as the 5600. I have a 5600 bike and a 4600 bike.

likewise, the 105-5700 got some hand-me-downs from the Ultegra 6600, as the Ultegra 6700 got some hand-me-downs from Dura Ace, iirc 7800. and dura ace gets the latest and greatest shimano innovations


----------



## mrkartoom (Oct 25, 2012)

Well I seem to have stirred up a great deal of discussion here, much of which is still a bit over my head, about groups and their available gearing options. I've got a lot of learning to do, but I'm taking from all this that the more teeth I can get in the rear the better I'll be able to climb. This is I can easily understand coming from 40+ years of riding off-road motorcycles and playing with many final gearing options.

I'm taking from the rest of the discussion that there is a question about the 105 group set being able to run an 11-32 cassette? I had targeted a 105-equipped bike basically because of what I have been reading here and other sites, assuming it would provide good performance, durability and I'd be happy with it over a long period of time. It sounds like there are other options to consider. I'm sure whatever I end up with will be better on these climbs than my 25lb Trek FX with rear rack and large pack!

In the meantime I'm trying to learn about all that you guys are discussing to make a more informed decision. Thanks!


----------



## mrkartoom (Oct 25, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> A couple of thoughts...
> 
> Find out the exact 2012 model the LBS is offering for $2500. The reason I say this is because the Comp is a mix of 105 and Ultegra and listed for $3300, while the Expert is full Ultegra and listed for $3900. I suspect it's the former, so the $2500 represents a decent discount, but IMO the specs aren't going to get you much over the 2013 (105) model that MSRP's for $2500.
> 
> ...


I am going to check back in with the LBS and find out what model. I kept search the web for last year's models and pricing and I suspect it is the Comp Model. If it was an Expert that would be a significant discount. I'll confirm once I find out what model.


----------



## mrkartoom (Oct 25, 2012)

jnbrown said:


> Get an SL4, its the best they have to offer.
> Don't buy yesterday's groceries.


I'm assuming any SL4 equipped bike would be out of my $2500 budget (bike only). If there were any major upgrades or improvements for 2013 over 2012 that would change my thinking about last year's models. I have also been looking at the Felt Z series and learned in their case the new frames are worth eliminating previous model years. I'm just not sure of that is the case with the Specialized.

To be honest at my level I'm not sure I'd notice the differences yet and 'bang for the buck' will likely remain a big goal.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

mrkartoom said:


> Well I seem to have stirred up a great deal of discussion here, much of which is still a bit over my head, about groups and their available gearing options. I've got a lot of learning to do, but* I'm taking from all this that the more teeth I can get in the rear the better I'll be able to climb.* This is I can easily understand coming from 40+ years of riding off-road motorcycles and playing with many final gearing options.


That's true, but because it dictates ratios in all those rear cogs, also consider the front gearing as well, where _less_ teeth equates to lower gearing/ easier spinning. 



mrkartoom said:


> *I'm taking from the rest of the discussion that there is a question about the 105 group set being able to run an 11-32 cassette?* I had targeted a 105-equipped bike basically because of what I have been reading here and other sites, assuming it would provide good performance, durability and I'd be happy with it over a long period of time. It sounds like there are other options to consider. I'm sure whatever I end up with will be better on these climbs than my 25lb Trek FX with rear rack and large pack!
> 
> In the meantime I'm trying to learn about all that you guys are discussing to make a more informed decision. Thanks!


Re: the bold statement, no, that's not the source of discussion. There's a question on whether a couple of new model RD's have a higher max cog capacity based on cage length - GS (mid) or SS (short). 

We'll need to get clarification on that, but I'll offer that most all current RD's function the same, and to my knowledge the specs relating to max cog capacity _do not_ change based on cage length - only total tooth capacity does. 

What we do know is that model RD-5700 (105) and RD-6700 (Ultegra) have a max cog capacity of 28T, but can run a 30T. RD-5700-A (105) and RD-4600 (Tiagra) have a max cog capacity of 30T, but can run a 32T. The model designations are listed on the RD's, so if there's a bike you're interested in, note the model number and you'll know what gearing options you'll have.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is shifting methods between Shimano and SRAM. The later uses what's called Double Tap, where the outer levers only operate the brakes and inner levers shift. Shimano uses the outer lever to both brake and shift (up at the front/ down at the rear) and inner levers to execute the opposite. 

Cyclists have their preferences, so my advice is to try both, then decide. Personally, all things considered, I don't think you have to go higher than Apex or Tiagra 4600 to get a groupset that'll fully meet your needs.


----------



## scottma (May 18, 2012)

If you can get a 2012 Ultegra/105 bike for $2500, that is a good deal. 

FWIW, I've seen bikes at the LBS with the new Sora and the thumb shifter is gone. A very quick Google search turned up this:
https://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/shimano-sora-and-tourney-2013-first-look-33204/

The mid-range 105 and Tiagra groups also both get new wide-ratio rear derailleurs. The 5701 (black or silver) and 4601 (silver only) rear mechs can both be used with cassettes between 11-25t and 11-32t, and come in SS and GS variants


The new nine-speed Sora 3500 group offers a wide range of gearing options, with a choice of two cassettes (12-30 or 11-30-tooth) and four chainsets – a super-compact 46/34t option for town bikes that should cross over well to cyclo-cross, plus a standard 50/34t compact, 52/39t double and 50/39/30t triple. The crank is a two-piece design with integrated bottom bracket and SG-X chainrings

The drop-bar STI levers have been improved – the downshift paddle has moved from the inside of the lever body to behind the brake lever, as on Shimano's more expensive groups


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

scottma said:


> The new nine-speed Sora 3500 group offers a wide range of gearing options... The crank is a two-piece design with integrated bottom bracket and SG-X chainrings.
> 
> The drop-bar STI levers have been improved – the downshift paddle has moved from the inside of the lever body to behind the brake lever, as on Shimano's more expensive groups


Yes, there are a few noteworthy improvements. I've test ridden the new Sora and while I think it's a (mostly ergo) improvement over the last version, IMO it's not up to the new Tiagra standard which is functionally close (if not on a par with) the previous 105 (5600).

That said, I think it (too) will meet most recreational riders needs.


----------



## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

from additional research.... there is a 5701-A that may offer that capability. it is mentioned in the shimano Japan site, but not available on the actual product info page

also, in the rumormill is a ultegra level CX rear derailleur with a 12-32t cassette


----------



## mrkartoom (Oct 25, 2012)

scottma said:


> If you can get a 2012 Ultegra/105 bike for $2500, that is a good deal. . . .


I stopped by the shop and talked to another fellow who showed me the bike they are talking about. It is actually a bike they built using an SL2 frame (58) with full-on Ultegra components (shifters, brakes, etc.). I'm thinking this would put it somewhere in the middle between last year's Comp (SL2 + mix of 105 & Ultegra) and Expert (SL3 + Ultegra) models. He seemed to think if it were to retail it would be around $3500 with the components on it. There is some sense the frame would be my size, but they'd have to see me on it. We didn't get it down to observe that yet. I'm thinking this sounds like a pretty good deal if it fits. You guys agree?

The only issue I have is the frame color (white/black). I'm rather fond of the matte carbon look, but I could live with it if they wouldn't swap it out.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

mrkartoom said:


> I stopped by the shop and talked to another fellow who showed me the bike they are talking about. It is actually a bike they built using an SL2 frame (58) with full-on Ultegra components (shifters, brakes, etc.). I'm thinking this would put it somewhere in the middle between last year's Comp (SL2 + mix of 105 & Ultegra) and Expert (SL3 + Ultegra) models. He seemed to think if it were to retail it would be around $3500 with the components on it. There is some sense the frame would be my size, but they'd have to see me on it. We didn't get it down to observe that yet. I'm thinking this sounds like a pretty good deal if it fits. You guys agree?
> 
> The only issue I have is the frame color (white/black). I'm rather fond of the matte carbon look, but I could live with it if they wouldn't swap it out.


Admittedly, I'm a skeptic, but this situation begs a few questions, like...
- why did they have an SL2 frameset available? What's the history?
- do you know for certain it's a 2012? I see only one SL2 listed for that year, and it's not a frameset.
- does it come with a full warranty _from Specialized_? 
- be careful that the LBS isn't anxious enough to sell this bike that they 'make it fit' you.

Before considering it, get these questions answered _reliably _and pin down your sizing requirements by test riding some other Roubaix's. All the newer models share the same geo, so the specific model doesn't matter. If you end up on something other than a 58, don't consider this bike.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

tednugent said:


> from additional research.... there is a 5701-A that may offer that capability. it is mentioned in the shimano Japan site, but not available on the actual product info page
> 
> also, in the rumormill is a ultegra level CX rear derailleur with a 12-32t cassette


Interesting. Thanks for posting the info. I'm sure we'll learn more with time....


----------



## mrkartoom (Oct 25, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> Admittedly, I'm a skeptic, but this situation begs a few questions, like...
> - why did they have an SL2 frameset available? What's the history?
> - do you know for certain it's a 2012? I see only one SL2 listed for that year, and it's not a frameset.
> - does it come with a full warranty _from Specialized_?
> ...


Thanks for the advice and the questions. I will certainly look to get them answered. I plan to test a couple other brands, so it will be interesting to see if there is some consistency in frame sizing between shops. I like to research things thoroughly myself and went back to the 2012 archive site trying to find that frame to make sure it appeared on some model that year. I couldn't actually find a Roubaix model listed with that paint scheme on the frame, but it sure looked like this Secteur Elite. That's obviously not an SL2 frame, so hopefully I'm just mistaken or just don't know.

My curiosity is really up now, so another visit to this LBS is in order.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

mrkartoom said:


> Thanks for the advice and the questions. I will certainly look to get them answered. *I plan to test a couple other brands, so it will be interesting to see if there is some consistency in frame sizing between shops*. I like to research things thoroughly myself and went back to the 2012 archive site trying to find that frame to make sure it appeared on some model that year. I couldn't actually find a Roubaix model listed with that paint scheme on the frame, but it sure looked like this Secteur Elite. That's obviously not an SL2 frame, so hopefully I'm just mistaken or just don't know.
> 
> My curiosity is really up now, so another visit to this LBS is in order.


Nothing wrong with test riding other makes/ models, but be aware that there are no standards for measuring to determine frame size, so don't expect that you'll take the same size Roubaix as you would in other makes/ models. 

That's why I suggested you pin down your sizing requirements testing Roubaix's - an apples to apples comparison. That way you'll know going into this SL2 situation if a 58 is really your optimal size. 

Good luck, and let us know how you make out.


----------



## mrkartoom (Oct 25, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> Nothing wrong with test riding other makes/ models, but be aware that there are no standards for measuring to determine frame size, so don't expect that you'll take the same size Roubaix as you would in other makes/ models.
> 
> That's why I suggested you pin down your sizing requirements testing Roubaix's - an apples to apples comparison. That way you'll know going into this SL2 situation if a 58 is really your optimal size.
> 
> Good luck, and let us know how you make out.


Good point. I'll try other Roubaix's when the foot is healed up to the point I can actually start test riding. For now all I can do is continue to research and learn more abut them . . . . and drool.


----------



## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

I'm dead set on the Roubaix, and know what frame size I need, so if a shop offered me that deal ($1k off MSRP w/ full Ultegra group) it would be hard to resist. I'm not very fond of last years white Roubaix frames but still that's a good enough deal I could probably look past that. BTW, Specialized didn't sell that exact spec SL2 in 2012 but $3500 retail sounds about right for that frame with a full Ultegra group. You can't really compare it price wise to an SL3 build since the (SL3) frame is/was more expensive.


----------



## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Since I built a 2012 Roubaix SL3 frameset up, I can speak to that. The retail on the Roubaix SL3 Pro frameset for 2012 was $2200...and my lbs sold me the frame just prior to Christmas of last year for a bit less than that. I figure about $2K for groupset, wheels and misc parts...maybe a bit more depending on what you choose. Ui2 add another $1K over the typlcal cost.
I couldn't ask for a better bike really...its the best bike I have owned or ridden for that matter...partly because of the outstanding geometry for me...with my long legs for my height. An important consideration is what groupset you like. I prefer the ergonomics of Campy to Dura Ace 7900...but havent' tried the new Red yet which is said to be new and improved for 2013.. Shimano's new DA 9000 is supposed to be very nice and they replicated the new hood shape of Ui2 which is said to be excellent.
Unfortunately Spesh has jacked up the price of the new Roubaix SL4 Pro frame to $2800 which is too bad. I am hard pressed to understand how the '12 bike could be improved but the '13 SL4 Roubaix is clearly redesigned with rounder tube sections and revised Zertz geometry. I bet its an incredible bike.
Good luck whatever you decide. My takeaway is...if you get a smoking deal on a 2012 Roubaix go for it. If you have a chance to ride a 2013 Roubaix for comparison this may help galvanize your decision either way.
An earlier pic of my bike below...bit different now shortened steerer, longer stem, FSA carbon seat post, longer rear derailleur loop...minor tweaks:


----------



## mrkartoom (Oct 25, 2012)

Dunbar said:


> I'm dead set on the Roubaix, and know what frame size I need, so if a shop offered me that deal ($1k off MSRP w/ full Ultegra group) it would be hard to resist. I'm not very fond of last years white Roubaix frames but still that's a good enough deal I could probably look past that. BTW, Specialized didn't sell that exact spec SL2 in 2012 but $3500 retail sounds about right for that frame with a full Ultegra group. You can't really compare it price wise to an SL3 build since the (SL3) frame is/was more expensive.


Do you happen to know which model Roubaix came with the white frame last year? Not having confirmed with the LBS yet that it is a 2012 frame (they call the bike they built a 2012) I tried to find it on the archive site, but couldn't. Perhaps they don't show all the frame color options on there, so I'm still curious if it is indeed a 2012 frame.


----------



## mrkartoom (Oct 25, 2012)

roadworthy said:


> Since I built a 2012 Roubaix SL3 frameset up, I can speak to that. The retail on the Roubaix SL3 Pro frameset for 2012 was $2200...and my lbs sold me the frame just prior to Christmas of last year for a bit less than that. I figure about $2K for groupset, wheels and misc parts...maybe a bit more depending on what you choose. Ui2 add another $1K over the typlcal cost.
> I couldn't ask for a better bike really...its the best bike I have owned or ridden for that matter...partly because of the outstanding geometry for me...with my long legs for my height. An important consideration is what groupset you like. I prefer the ergonomics of Campy to Dura Ace 7900...but havent' tried the new Red yet which is said to be new and improved for 2013.. Shimano's new DA 9000 is supposed to be very nice and they replicated the new hood shape of Ui2 which is said to be excellent.
> Unfortunately Spesh has jacked up the price of the new Roubaix SL4 Pro frame to $2800 which is too bad. I am hard pressed to understand how the '12 bike could be improved but the '13 SL4 Roubaix is clearly redesigned with rounder tube sections and revised Zertz geometry. I bet its an incredible bike.
> Good luck whatever you decide. My takeaway is...if you get a smoking deal on a 2012 Roubaix go for it. If you have a chance to ride a 2013 Roubaix for comparison this may help galvanize your decision either way.
> An earlier pic of my bike below...bit different now shortened steerer, longer stem, FSA carbon seat post, longer rear derailleur loop...minor tweaks:


Nice looking bike roadworthy. Thanks for the advice. Before I make any decision I do plan to ride the 2012 framed bike the LBS built up and a 2013. Hopefully this 2012/Ultegra build bike is still there when the doc gives me clearance to put pressure on my repaired foot again.


----------



## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

mrkartoom said:


> Do you happen to know which model Roubaix came with the white frame last year?


This is the only one I'm aware of outside of the SL3 version which I seriously doubt they'd sell to you at that price. Here's what it looks like. One of my local shops has one in stock so I've seen it in person. Here is a link to the 2011 Roubaix archive if you suspect it might be a 2011 frame.


----------



## mrkartoom (Oct 25, 2012)

Dunbar said:


> This is the only one I'm aware of outside of the SL3 version which I seriously doubt they'd sell to you at that price. Here's what it looks like. One of my local shops has one in stock so I've seen it in person. Here is a link to the 2011 Roubaix archive if you suspect it might be a 2011 frame.


Thanks for the pic. I forgot to clarify the white frame on the LBS's bike has a front downtube that is completely black on the bottom with, IIRC, white on the sides & top of it. The one in your pic and others on the 2011 site don't look to match it, so I'm still wondering what the heck it is. I'll get back to the shop sometime next week and sort it out.


----------



## mrkartoom (Oct 25, 2012)

I did confirm today that the bike the LBS built is with a 2011 SL2 Comp frame. There was some confusion between the staff, but I finally spoke with the person that knew the facts. I was told it was a frame only they got and used all Ultegra components that came from a Focus bike, which they also sell.

So the question I'd ask you guys is does the frame being a 2011 instead of a 2012 make this any less a good deal for the $2500 price tag? Considering the 2013 Roubaix SL2 Comp w/mostly Ultegra looks to retail for $3200 I'd also question whether or not a realistic list for the built bike would really be the $3500 they suggested. They did say full Ultegra on it, but I'm just taking their word at this point.


----------



## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

You can search but I don't think there's a significant difference between the 2011 and 2012 SL2 frames. The white 2012 Roubaix I linked to above listed for $3300 and had a 105 front derailleur and brakes, Ultegra everything else. I would value Ultegra brakes and front derailleur at maybe $150. I think it's still a good deal but obviously not quite as smoking as a full Ultegra 2012 SL2 build since it's now a two year old frame.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

mrkartoom said:


> I did confirm today that the bike the LBS built is with a 2011 SL2 Comp frame. There was some confusion between the staff, but I finally spoke with the person that knew the facts. I was told it was a frame only they got and used all Ultegra components that came from a Focus bike, which they also sell.
> 
> So the question I'd ask you guys is does the frame being a 2011 instead of a 2012 make this any less a good deal for the $2500 price tag? Considering the 2013 Roubaix SL2 Comp w/mostly Ultegra looks to retail for $3200 I'd also question whether or not a realistic list for the built bike would really be the $3500 they suggested. They did say full Ultegra on it, but I'm just taking their word at this point.


As I posted earlier, I'd question why the LBS had this frameset available to build and if it comes with a warranty... from Specialized. It may or may not matter, but they do keep track of serial numbers and will know this bike wasn't available as a frameset.

Also, from a resale standpoint, being a two year old bike will matter, as will the version of Ultegra used for the build (6500, 6600, 6700). Like cars, bikes tend to lose about 30% of their value the first year.. less in subsequent years. If this bike were used and being sold by a private seller, I'd estimate its value at around $2k, depending on market and region, so something to consider.

Personally, with all the questions surrounding this bike, I'd opt for the $2500 2013 Roubaix. You'll know what you're getting and IMO/E the 105 groupset isn't going to detract from your rides in any way.


----------



## mrkartoom (Oct 25, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> As I posted earlier, I'd question why the LBS had this frameset available to build and if it comes with a warranty... from Specialized. It may or may not matter, but they do keep track of serial numbers and will know this bike wasn't available as a frameset.
> 
> Also, from a resale standpoint, being a two year old bike will matter, as will the version of Ultegra used for the build (6500, 6600, 6700). Like cars, bikes tend to lose about 30% of their value the first year.. less in subsequent years. If this bike were used and being sold by a private seller, I'd estimate its value at around $2k, depending on market and region, so something to consider.
> 
> Personally, with all the questions surrounding this bike, I'd opt for the $2500 2013 Roubaix. You'll know what you're getting and IMO/E the 105 groupset isn't going to detract from your rides in any way.


I will be going back to the LBS soon to get on a trainer and do an initial fitting on a Roubaix. I plan to dig a little deeper then as to how and why the bike got built, the warranty issue, and the age/model of the group set. Since it is "as new" and there are no changes in the frame its probably worth digging a littler deeper into it. They moved it into storage for the season (small showroom and ski gear now dominates it) and I'm not even sure what wheels it has on it yet.

You're probably right I'd be just as happy with a new 105-equipped bike and I do like the idea it that everything on it would be current. I also like the paint scheme of the 2013's better and looks does play a part for me. Definitely a lot to consider here before making a decision.


----------



## mrkartoom (Oct 25, 2012)

Dunbar said:


> You can search but I don't think there's a significant difference between the 2011 and 2012 SL2 frames. The white 2012 Roubaix I linked to above listed for $3300 and had a 105 front derailleur and brakes, Ultegra everything else. I would value Ultegra brakes and front derailleur at maybe $150. I think it's still a good deal but obviously not quite as smoking as a full Ultegra 2012 SL2 build since it's now a two year old frame.


They re-confirmed it is full Ultegra brakes and all. Your estimate for the upgraded parts puts it right about what they suggest for list I guess, but then again it's a year older frame than they first suggested. Maybe the groupset is a previous version, too as PJ suggests I should verify.

I noticed the 2013 Comp lists for less than the 2012 at $3200. It still has the 105 FD but with Ultegra brakes instead. To my untrained mind it seems upgraded from the 2012, but costs less. Are prices dropping or have they just fiddled with other stuff to lower the cost? Not really relevant I guess I'm just curious.

Thanks to you guys for all the help and advice.


----------



## scottma (May 18, 2012)

An SL2 with an Ultegra group is odd, and I agree, what was the reason for this build?

New 5700 105 is slightly heavier than 6700 Ultegra, but functionally, you cant tell the difference. It works very nicely. 

The 2013 Roubaix frames are a little different. The 2 lower end ones look like SL2 frames. Above that, they are "SL2.5" until you get to the SL4 Expert level. They have the SL3 style fork and zerts, internal top tube cabling, but external downtube cabling. Frame is 8r like SL2.

I think the 105 Elite is a good way to go. You get an updated frame, new 2013 bike with better resale down the road.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

mrkartoom said:


> I noticed the 2013 Comp lists for less than the 2012 at $3200. It still has the 105 FD but with Ultegra brakes instead. To my untrained mind it seems upgraded from the 2012, but costs less. Are prices dropping or have they just fiddled with other stuff to lower the cost? Not really relevant I guess I'm just curious.


Some of the models did see a price drop in 2013, and you are correct re: the specs for the 2013 Comp. It also has a slightly different model Toupe saddle, FWIW.

JMO, but the reason could be because since the frameset is essentially carried over from 2012 to 2013, production costs drop. 

BTW, I agree with scottma re: functional differences between 105 and Ultegra. I have two Tarmacs with previous versions of both and (save for slight weight/ finish differences) they perform the same. As with most groupsets, key to good performance is proper set up/ tuning.


----------



## mrkartoom (Oct 25, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> . . . BTW, I agree with scottma re: functional differences between 105 and Ultegra. . .


Yes with that in mind getting the newer frame that scottma has described so well does sound more appealing, as well as having no questions about what I would be getting or the history if it. 



scottma said:


> The 2013 Roubaix frames are a little different. The 2 lower end ones look like SL2 frames. Above that, they are "SL2.5" until you get to the SL4 Expert level. They have the SL3 style fork and zerts, internal top tube cabling, but external downtube cabling. Frame is 8r like SL2.


Back to the website I see what you mean, and it does raise some more questions about the built bike.

The Roubaix Elite was the model I was originally interested in because of research, budget and spec, so I'm sort of back where I started.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

mrkartoom said:


> The Roubaix Elite was the model I was originally interested in because of research, budget and spec, so *I'm sort of back where I started*.


I don't think so. The "SL" designations were changes to molds (tubing shapes/ diameters), not CF grade or construction methods. I highly doubt you'd ever discern any differences between the model years in question.

IMO Specialized 'low end' CF bikes have all been well designed, well performing in recent years - mostly as a result of trickle down technology.


----------



## mrkartoom (Oct 25, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> I don't think so. The "SL" designations were changes to molds (tubing shapes/ diameters), not CF grade or construction methods.


 Good because I was confusing that. What I was trying say about being back where I started is that I was originally interested in the 2013 Roubaix Elite w/105, which you guys make an excellent case for over this built up bike from as of yet unknown origins.


----------



## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

Not an easy decision. Both are obviously good bikes. Since they are building up the 2011 frame do you know which wheels they are including?


----------



## mrkartoom (Oct 25, 2012)

Dunbar said:


> Not an easy decision. Both are obviously good bikes. Since they are building up the 2011 frame do you know which wheels they are including?


Not sure about the wheels on it yet. I only got a glance at it once from below as it was on an upper rack in the showroom. I stopped by the shop the other day to get another look at it, but they have scaled down to one rack of bikes for ski season and moved it their warehouse down the street. They will bring it out when I call to arrange a fitting, but I'm leaning towards the 2013 model at this point. I'd still like to get the whole story on this bike though out of curiosity.


----------

