# Well, it's official.... Levi is retired



## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

Leipheimer Confirms: I'm Retired | Cyclingnews.com


Seems a little sad. I liked the guy.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

thechriswebb said:


> Leipheimer Confirms: I'm Retired | Cyclingnews.com
> 
> 
> Seems a little sad. I liked the guy.


"Liked the guy"?!? How could you- he's a cheat, blah blah.
Sorry mate- I'm just preparing you for the avalanche of hate. 
I like Levi. I like Tommy D, Mick Rogers, DZ, etc...


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Yeah. Kinda sad to go out on that ignominious note. It would have been nice to see him get to ride a few more years.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

It's sad, but not unexpected.

No team wants a late 30's, admitted doper on their team who has only shown the ability to win one week stage races (the races only a few people really pay attention to since they are lead-ups to the big races) ... when they can load their team with younger "Potential" talent and build a team from that.

It's a very quiet end to a good career ... hopefully he's able to move to the next step in his life and be happy without the past getting in the way.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Wookiebiker said:


> It's sad, but not unexpected.
> 
> No team wants a late 30's, admitted doper on their team who has only shown the ability to win one week stage races (the races only a few people really pay attention to since they are lead-ups to the big races) ... when they can load their team with younger "Potential" talent and build a team from that.
> 
> It's a very quiet end to a good career ... hopefully he's able to move to the next step in his life and be happy without the past getting in the way.


I was a little surprised a smaller continental team didn't pick him up. He was indeed a good specialist at the ~1 week stage races. Not as glorious as the grand tours, but they still generate a little dough as well as points for the team. 

I am officially indifferent. I suppose that means I condone something and I might get neg repped.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

spade2you said:


> I was a little surprised a smaller continental team didn't pick him up. He was indeed a good specialist at the ~1 week stage races. Not as glorious as the grand tours, but they still generate a little dough as well as points for the team.
> 
> I am officially indifferent. I suppose that means I condone something and I might get neg repped.


You drug condoning pharmacist!!! Negative rep for you!!!! ... Just kidding 

I was a little surprised that a continental team didn't pick him up for the TOC and a few other races, but the price was probably too high and again ... the image isn't one that most small teams are willing to work with and it could negatively effect their sponsorship ... any team thinking about picking him up, I'm sure discussed it with their sponsors.

In the end ... a very good career that ends with a whimper.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

I'd guess no one picked him up because they don't believe he raced clean the last 5 years. The guy's entire pro career from his first days on Saturn involved systematic doping and he was Lance's training partner when Lance came back, a period during which Armstrong was doping (and had his results voided). Teams likely figured if Levi came back there would be a deeper look into alleged doping after 2007 and didn't need that association....


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Wookiebiker said:


> You drug condoning pharmacist!!! Negative rep for you!!!! ... Just kidding
> 
> I was a little surprised that a continental team didn't pick him up for the TOC and a few other races, but the price was probably too high and again ... the image isn't one that most small teams are willing to work with and it could negatively effect their sponsorship ... any team thinking about picking him up, I'm sure discussed it with their sponsors.
> 
> In the end ... a very good career that ends with a whimper.


Perhaps Mancebo was more budget priced? I'd like to think Levi could beat Mancebo most of the time. 

Perhaps a small team with a shot at the ToC might give him a shot. I give him maybe a 24.345% chance at unretiring for a bit.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

Awwww, my thread got moved. I should have known that would happen....

Spade, I agree that Mancebo was probably cheaper. Not to dis his team by any means but they are a lower budget squad racing with microshift bits and Levi is used to racing for podiums in Grand Tours. I hate seeing him go this way but maybe it is best for him to ride off into the sunset and focus on his granfondo and charities. 

I think the 24.345% estimate is a bit high.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Levi has had a pretty cush career since joining USPS years ago. He did major races with the proper prep. He was a protected rider since his breakout in the Vuelta in the late 90's. I don't think he would survive the tempo of a pro continental team at his age. Shitty hotels, lots of stage races, most races get zero coverage. Guys like the Jamis team don't get the same life of a UCI team. They also don't have a budget that can support Levi either. Too bad Rock Racing's team of dopers is gone. They would have picked him up.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Mancebo did alright in a GT or two.


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

Man, so the Bottle got thrown to the curb.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

spade2you said:


> Mancebo did alright in a GT or two.



I think the point really is Mancebo is really more of a working mans pro. Speaking with his DSs this past week he is totally fin sleeping on a air mattress and using toe roller on his own legs, while Levi *might* be ok with that I kinda think he would not be willing to work at that level.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I would assume Levi socked away enough from his UCI days that he doesn't can keep a high enough price tag and not need to work like other riders.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

scumbag Levi being scumbag Lance's scumbag doping accomplice. He's probably going to milk his Gran Fondo's and continue being a scumbag to all the people he betrayed. He cheated us all, I want my money back.


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## bayAreaDude (Apr 13, 2012)

spade2you said:


> I would assume Levi socked away enough from his UCI days that he doesn't can keep a high enough price tag and not need to work like other riders.


Agreed. The money he made cheating was probably enough that competing fairly isn't something he needs to bother with anymore.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Ventruck said:


> scumbag Levi being scumbag Lance's scumbag doping accomplice. He's probably going to milk his Gran Fondo's and continue being a scumbag to all the people he betrayed. He cheated us all, I want my money back.


Does racing against Lance for a few years help?


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

spade2you said:


> Does racing against Lance for a few years help?


just means he was being a scumbag mole on other teams.

*rips off Levistrong wristband*


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

spade2you said:


> Does racing against Lance for a few years help?


though he came right back to him when he returned and hung out with the same old guys - Pepi, Hog, etc. Was Lance's training partner, clearly in the inner circle, talked about new doping products on their rides, but says he rode clean during the time. So, he's probably lying. A career-doper I wouldn't want around a bunch of young kids if I were a DS. Seems BMC has also cut ties to Hincapie and aren't even using his clothing any more. The two of them are really damaged goods.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

thechriswebb said:


> Leipheimer Confirms: I'm Retired | Cyclingnews.com
> 
> 
> Seems a little sad. I liked the guy.


Same here.


I like him as well.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

Kind of a mini-Lance minus the ego issues in his best years. Always found him boring in the Grand Tours, talked up and under performing. Still, he had more of a career than he would have clean. Seems like a nice enough guy off the bike, he got too close to The Big Man and paid the price.. .So it goes.


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## King Arthur (Nov 13, 2009)

Got to meet him once during a team presentation. Seemed like a nice enough guy, shame his career had to end this way, with a wimper.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

He made his decisions. He's paid his price. 

Much of Cycling is cynical. If they think there are wins / marketing left in someone, they'll "forgive." Or turn a blind eye. 

If they think someone is too old, too damaged or can't win without the dope - well, there's no mercy.


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

spade2you said:


> Perhaps Mancebo was more budget priced? I'd like to think Levi could beat Mancebo most of the time.
> 
> Perhaps a small team with a shot at the ToC might give him a shot. I give him maybe a 24.345% chance at unretiring for a bit.


I think it shows somewhat that things have changed a bit since Mancebo moved to the U.S.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

Bluenote said:


> He made his decisions. He's paid his price.
> 
> Much of Cycling is cynical. If they think there are wins / marketing left in someone, they'll "forgive." Or turn a blind eye.
> 
> If they think someone is too old, too damaged or can't win without the dope - well, there's no mercy.


Much? 100% of the pro game. Reading Hamilton's book ended any romantic thoughts I might still have harboured about pro cycling. Levi was done the moment he was outed in L'Affaire Lance .


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

sir duke said:


> Much? 100% of the pro game. Reading Hamilton's book ended any romantic thoughts I might still have harboured about pro cycling. Levi was done the moment he was outed in L'Affaire Lance .


100% of sport, period. Not just pro sports, either. Colleges routinely give full rides to functionally illiterate "student athletes" who don't have a snowball's chance in hell of graduating---as long as they play a revenue producing sport.

The UCI is a bunch of two bit pikers compared to the NCAA.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Aside from him being a relatively aging cyclist, I think sponsors are staying away from him to make an example of him. It's plausible that these sponsors don't want their own images tarnished and that they want to warn all current and future pro cyclists that their professional lives will not be anywhere favorable if they get caught cheating.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

SauronHimself said:


> Aside from him being a relatively aging cyclist, I think sponsors are staying away from him to make an example of him. It's plausible that these sponsors don't want their own images tarnished and that they want to warn all current and future pro cyclists that their professional lives will not be anywhere favorable if they get caught cheating.


One has to wonder why Garmin was so forgiving of their 30-somethings?


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

davidka said:


> One has to wonder why Garmin was so forgiving of their 30-somethings?


Because they all "came to Jesus" in 2006.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

davidka said:


> One has to wonder why Garmin was so forgiving of their 30-somethings?


Not really. Vaughters has written at length explaining their decisions.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

Levi had a much greater career than his natural abilities and talent deserved. Hard to feel sorry for him now.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

To the haters, do you imagine being these guys or like them when you're out riding? I guess poserdom had hit you hard. You guys sound like a bunch of newbs who just started riding on the Lance wave.

I love cycling. No matter what those guys have done, they are humans. They don't dictate my love for the sport. I am 40 now and started racing when I was 14. I quit racing when I was 22 when I hit that crossroad in my 3rd year of college. Started back up 4 years ago and loving it again. If those guys are who inspire you to ride, so what? Something good came out of it. If their actions dictate your love of cycling, then you're not a cyclist; You're a guy who rides a bike. You can act, look and ride the part but if you don't have love for the sport or activity, beyond your favorite rider, you're not a cyclist.

I've kept my mouth shut for the most part about the doping stuff because anyone who really knows anything about cycling KNEW that those guys were juicing. We didn't need to get confirmation. Pro riders (like most other pro sport athletes), use some type of performance enhancing drugs. The ones not doping are the ones who aren't winning. Part of the reason I chose books over bikes when I reached that crossroads in college. 

Here's a scenario: Everyone dopes but you; Your performance is subpar. Your sponsors are looking at you, your team is looking at you.... Management is looking at you. You either get dropped, quit, or dope. Squeal? You would've looked like the guy blaming everyone else for your failures even if you were telling the truth.

I don't hate any of those guys and I don't have time to waste my energy feeling betrayed because of some romantic notion of what these riders represented. It was the money. The love died...like in every other pro sport.. And the money became more important. Nothing new. I'm not them and they aren't me. I still love cycling and nothing is gonna change that..


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

terbennett said:


> To the haters, do you imagine being these guys or like them when you're out riding? I guess poserdom had hit you hard. You guys sound like a bunch of newbs who just started riding on the Lance wave.
> 
> I love cycling. No matter what those guys have done, they are humans. They don't dictate my love for the sport. I am 40 now and started racing when I was 14. I quit racing when I was 22 when I hit that crossroad in my 3rd year of college. Started back up 4 years ago and loving it again. If those guys are who inspire you to ride, so what? Something good came out of it. If their actions dictate your love of cycling, then you're not a cyclist; You're a guy who rides a bike. You can act, look and ride the part but if you don't have love for the sport or activity, beyond your favorite rider, you're not a cyclist.
> 
> ...


Spare me, I was riding club rides long before the days of lycra and clipless pedals. In shitty weather, etc etc. The guys who didn't want to dope are human beings too, with families to support. The ones who had to walk away, like Bassons, made the hardest decisions.


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## bayAreaDude (Apr 13, 2012)

terbennett said:


> To the haters, do you imagine being these guys or like them when you're out riding? I guess poserdom had hit you hard. You guys sound like a bunch of newbs who just started riding on the Lance wave.
> 
> I love cycling. No matter what those guys have done, they are humans. They don't dictate my love for the sport. I am 40 now and started racing when I was 14. I quit racing when I was 22 when I hit that crossroad in my 3rd year of college. Started back up 4 years ago and loving it again. If those guys are who inspire you to ride, so what? Something good came out of it. If their actions dictate your love of cycling, then you're not a cyclist; You're a guy who rides a bike. You can act, look and ride the part but if you don't have love for the sport or activity, beyond your favorite rider, you're not a cyclist.
> 
> ...


Don't have to be a noob to see that dopers made careers for clean riders impossible and find nothing admirable in that selfishness. Doesn't take any time or energy to have a simple opinion. Who says you can't love cycling and dislike cheaters? Hell, who says you have to even be aware of pro cycling to love to ride your bike or call yourself a cyclist, as if there's even a difference.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

bayAreaDude said:


> Don't have to be a noob to see that dopers made careers for clean riders impossible and find nothing admirable in that selfishness. Doesn't take any time or energy to have a simple opinion. Who says you can't love cycling and dislike cheaters? Hell, who says you have to even be aware of pro cycling to love to ride your bike or call yourself a cyclist, as if there's even a difference.


Well said. I loved cycling long before I was aware of the TDF and all the rest. The omerta exists because of all the averagely talented guys who doped, took the easy option, took the money, took the adulation and said 'f*ck you, Jack' to any and all who questioned their motives. They take risks with their own health, expect family and friends to lie and abet their deceit, possibly even go to jail for them, then look you in the face and lie through their teeth. Yeah, real stand-up guys.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Do I feel sorry for him?

I do not believe that Levi is a bad guy so I feel a little bad that he is getting personal attacks. He stands out as a pariah when his actions were on par with cycling culture. Something seems unfair there. 

Do I feel bad that he has to retire? Not really. He continues to make a living off his pro bike career with the grand fondu. Cycling still gives back to Levi. It is more than most get. At the same time I do not feel disillusioned or anger at the state of cycling. 

Ultimately, if I rode past a lone Levi stranded on the side of the road after triple flatting and running out of tubes I would offer a tube to him as I would any other cyclist. He's just a dude.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

Local Hero said:


> Do I feel sorry for him?
> 
> I do not believe that Levi is a bad guy so I feel a little bad that he is getting personal attacks. He stands out as a pariah when his actions were on par with cycling culture. Something seems unfair there.
> 
> ...


He's just a dude, I'm just a dude, we're all just dudes. But he took the shortcuts that other dudes couldn't or wouldn't access so he could climb the dude pecking order. Surely he knew that the sport is highly and unfairly selective about who gets a lifeline after transgressing. So no, he has to take his lumps and and be grateful that he got more out of the sport than he put in. I do have some sympathy over the harassment he and his wife received after he gave his statement to USADA, apparently she got threatening messages on her cellphone.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

I'm glad to see cyclists responding. I made that choice not to go that route when I was in college. I've always loved cycling. I don't pitty any of them, but I'm not going to waste my time bashing them either. They made their beds and they must lie in them. I was a big Leipheimer fan and he screwed up. No worries. It wasn't like we didn't know he doped. I just assumed that they all do. Doping has been part of cycling for decades and it's only getting attention because the powers that be are trying to clean it up.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

I started riding bicycle when I was a kid living in Asia. We were poor. Bicycle was the main transportation. Trust me, nobody in the pro peloton inspired me to ride bicycle. Necessity was the mother.

All these cheats deserve what humanity throws at them. They knew what they were doing. They had a choice. They made their beds.

But honestly, at the end of the day, Levi probably did the right thing by cheating. Because had he not cheat, he might be working in a warehouse.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

Been racing longer than you and raced through the transition from the 80s to the 90s and so saw first hand what was going on. Your simplistic view tosses all the dopers into the same bin. Personally, I think there's a big difference between a rider who never wanted to dope so figured out how to get on a team like Garmin so they no longer had to cheat (CVV, DZ, TD) and a rider like Levi who doped his whole career and went right back to the mother ship near the end of his career and is likely lying about doping while on that team. Sounds like the sort of guy who would dope even if he didn't have to and has profited enough from cheating for his entire career. 



terbennett said:


> To the haters, do you imagine being these guys or like them when you're out riding? I guess poserdom had hit you hard. You guys sound like a bunch of newbs who just started riding on the Lance wave.
> 
> I love cycling. No matter what those guys have done, they are humans. They don't dictate my love for the sport. I am 40 now and started racing when I was 14. I quit racing when I was 22 when I hit that crossroad in my 3rd year of college. Started back up 4 years ago and loving it again. If those guys are who inspire you to ride, so what? Something good came out of it. If their actions dictate your love of cycling, then you're not a cyclist; You're a guy who rides a bike. You can act, look and ride the part but if you don't have love for the sport or activity, beyond your favorite rider, you're not a cyclist.
> 
> ...


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## King Arthur (Nov 13, 2009)

sir duke said:


> Much? 100% of the pro game. Reading Hamilton's book ended any romantic thoughts I might still have harboured about pro cycling. Levi was done the moment he was outed in L'Affaire Lance .


I too read Hamilton's and David Walsh's books. Any romantic fantasy I held concerning cycling and its riders has left me with a jaded view of all things cycling (riders, staff, directors, sponsors, etc. I lost one of my last few boyhood dreams when the house of cards built around cycling imploded with the on-going doping scandals.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

sir duke said:


> Spare me, I was riding club rides long before the days of lycra and clipless pedals. In shitty weather, etc etc. the guys who didn't want to dope are human beings too, with families to support. The ones who had to walk away, like Bassons, made the hardest decisions.


The same Bassons who got in trouble last year?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

stevesbike said:


> though he came right back to him when he returned and hung out with the same old guys - Pepi, Hog, etc. Was Lance's training partner, clearly in the inner circle, talked about new doping products on their rides, but says he rode clean during the time. So, he's probably lying. A career-doper I wouldn't want around a bunch of young kids if I were a DS. Seems BMC has also cut ties to Hincapie and aren't even using his clothing any more. The two of them are really damaged goods.


It's a good thing BMC changed clothing manufacturers. Had they not, I would be questioning their dope free integrity.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Local Hero said:


> Do I feel sorry for him?
> 
> I do not believe that Levi is a bad guy so I feel a little bad that he is getting personal attacks. He stands out as a pariah when his actions were on par with cycling culture. Something seems unfair there.
> 
> ...


It's interesting how evil Levi is considered. Do we consider DiLuca as evil? Why or why not? 

It's easy to focus everything on US Postal and pretend that cycling has gotten clean. I would also probably give him and even those who neg rep me a tube.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

spade2you said:


> Do we consider DiLuca as evil?


Timely reference considering today's news!


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

burgrat said:


> Timely reference considering today's news!


Perhaps. I've made it known that I really don't put much into perception of riders' personalities. 

DiLuca is a habitual doper and even got a reduced sentence for helping the fight against doping. Levi is simply a horrible person. ?


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

spade2you said:


> The same Bassons who got in trouble last year?


Barrel, meet scraper. He missed the post-race doping test because he quit the MTB race, then forgot to report for testing. Ban reduced to 1 month on appeal.

Lousy, lying, dirty, cheat, he's no better than er, you know, wotsisname, the guy who won seven yellow shirts, uh, Lance Hamstrung..


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

sir duke said:


> Barrel, meet scraper. He missed the post-race doping test because he quit the MTB race, then forgot to report for testing. Ban reduced to 1 month on appeal.
> 
> Lousy, lying, dirty, cheat, he's no better than er, you know, wotsisname, the guy who won seven yellow shirts, uh, Lance Hamstrung..


There was also the business of riding for Festina. Oh yeah, he didn't dope and they stopped doping after the Festina Affair. My bad.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

spade2you said:


> It's interesting how evil Levi is considered. Do we consider DiLuca as evil? Why or why not?
> 
> It's easy to focus everything on US Postal and pretend that cycling has gotten clean. I would also probably give him and even those who neg rep me a tube.


Di Luca is no better in my book than Levi. He certainly gets minus points for sheer stupidity and arrogance.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

spade2you said:


> There was also the business of riding for Festina. Oh yeah, he didn't dope and they stopped doping after the Festina Affair. My bad.


Thanks for the laughs, Spade. Are you sure you're not German?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

sir duke said:


> Di Luca is no better in my book than Levi. He certainly gets minus points for sheer stupidity and arrogance.


How do we know it was arrogance and not insecurity?


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

Di Luca is a pos mainly because he had the nerve to call out racers for not being aggressive enough while he was doping. Ricco did the same thing. 



spade2you said:


> How do we know it was arrogance and not insecurity?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

stevesbike said:


> Di Luca is a pos mainly because he had the nerve to call out racers for not being aggressive enough while he was doping. Ricco did the same thing.


On the bright side, they can now hang out together and not race.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

and still dope to pick off Strava KOMs... 



spade2you said:


> On the bright side, they can now hang out together and not race.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

stevesbike said:


> and still dope to pick off Strava KOMs...


If I lived in the area, I'd get Strava and pulled by a car to force them to dope more to beat those artifical KOMs.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

His exciting and aggressive riding will be missed.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

spade2you said:


> How do we know it was arrogance and not insecurity?



Simple answer, we don't. But since he shed crocodile tears and played the contrition card to get a lesser penalty for his 2009 bust, than yes, I think arrogance is a fair assessment of his character.

Not that you care.....



> I've made it known that I really don't put much into perception of riders' personalities.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

stevesbike said:


> and still dope to pick off Strava KOMs...


Levi uses a fake name on strava and still gets hounded. 

I don't even think he's going for the KOMs. I think he's just riding hard and getting them


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

Local Hero said:


> Levi uses a fake name on strava and still gets hounded.
> 
> I don't even think he's going for the KOMs. I think he's just riding hard and getting them


Maybe he's planning to add those KOMs to his palmares, to replace the ones he got stripped of?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Local Hero said:


> Levi uses a fake name on strava and still gets hounded.
> 
> I don't even think he's going for the KOMs. I think he's just riding hard and getting them


That's hilarious. Perhaps the MAMILs are out to get him once and for all.


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