# Best $900 bike from BD?



## rover19

tl;dr version: what's the best BD bike around $900?

long version:

So after a great deal of research and reading on these very forums, I've decided that I'm going to order a bike from bikesdirect. I'm looking for some input on what the best value is around $900 (or if I should alter my budget). 

As a starting point - I'm not looking to buy on Craigslist or go to my LBS. If that's your only suggestion, feel free to move along. 

I have some flexibility when it comes to my budget, but this is also my first road bike - I don't want to spend a ton. I'm not necessarily looking to make the leap straight to a full carbon frame, which would put me at $1100+. Below that, it seems to me that there's a sweet spot right around $900. Several bikes look to have quality components and would allow for upgradeability down the line, with the potential to migrate parts to a carbon or titanium frame one day, if that's the route I wanted to go. 

With all that said, I think I've more or less narrowed the choices down to the following four bikes:

Motobecane Super Strada
Save up to 60% of new Shimano SRAM Apex 20 Speed Road Bikes | 2011 Motobecane Super Strada Road Bikes Sale | Save up to 60% off your next new Road Bike

Windsor Knight
Road Bikes Shimano Ultegra Road Bikes - Windsor Knight

Windsor Falkirk
Save up to 60% off new Windsor Falkirk Shimano Ultegra SL Road Bikes

Gravity Pro X
Save up to 60% off new Road Bikes - Gravity Pro X SRAM Force | Save up to 60% off new road bikes

I'd love to hear people's thoughts on what the best value is, especially when it comes to comparing components other than just shifters and derailleurs. 

Also, if there's a bike I've overlooked, I'm open to suggestions.

As for its use, I'm new to road biking, but anticipate that I'll start with rides around Central Park in NYC and do some triathlons. I'm incredibly competitive, and I'm not the type that's ever been known to run or ride leisurely; though it's my first road bike, I'm sure I'll be pushing myself from the very first ride and will eventually get more into racing. I know that these bikes differ largely in geometry, so that's obviously a factor too. 

Thanks in advance for any comments! I'm sure there are other people also struggling with the sheer number of models to choose from


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## Nigel

Check out the bikes that neuvation cycling sells. Good wheels and good frames. The complete bikes are near your price range too.


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## rover19

Nigel said:


> Check out the bikes that neuvation cycling sells. Good wheels and good frames. The complete bikes are near your price range too.


I did look at their site. Even with the 20% discount they say they have going right now, the cheapest bike is still $1,200. ($1116 + 70 for shipping to be precise).


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## flatsix911

Based on your intended usage you would be fine with any of your initial choices, however, you might considering upgrading your budget to $1,200. 
Upgrading components later can be very expensive and end result may not be cost effective. Have you considered a Tri / Road bike as an option? 

*Shimano 105 20 Speed Fuji ACR 2.0 $895*
Road Bikes - Road - Fuji ACR 2.0 Road bikes

*SRAM Apex, 2x10 speed Century Comp $1195*
SRAM Apex Carbon Road bikes - 2011 Century Comp

*Shimano 105, 20 Speed Kestrel Talon Carbon Triathlon $1,399*
Shimano 105 equipped - 2011 Kestrel Talon Triathlon Tri Bikes


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## rover19

I have thought about tri bikes, but I don't think I want to go that route just yet, as I'm not sure how often I'll be doing triathlons. I'd rather have the focus be on general riding.

That Fuji is OOS in my size. (If everything were in stock, I'd definitely be picking this one up: Road Bikes, Roadbikes -SRAM FORCE Motobecane Le Champion SL with SRAM Force Carbon Group)

As for the Century Comp, I've certainly been considering it...

I don't necessarily plan on upgrading components, which is why I was looking at Ultegra or Apex to start out with. I have to think I'd be more likely to get a carbon frame down the line or some new wheels before I ever thought about moving up a component group.


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## lardo

Kudos on recognizing that $800 to $900 range is the sweet spot for a good-quality long lasting BD bike. I bought a $400 dollar bike and ended up selling it for a lot less than that because I wanted to upgrade. Always better to put out as much money as possible.

The Gravity Pro is sold out, so that's a moot option (unless you plan on waiting for BD to restock.

IMO, the Super Strada looks the best visually, but has Apex. Nothing wrong with Apex at the mid-level; I own an Apex bike and I'm really sold on SRAM components. 

The Windsor Knight is the best deal. It has an Ultegra level drivetrain, which is a notch above Apex/105. I have the same wheels and they're very nice. The only potential issue the down tube is shaped in an oval-like fashion, but it's essentially an aesthetic opinion.


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## rover19

lardo said:


> The Windsor Knight is the best deal. It has an Ultegra level drivetrain, which is a notch above Apex/105. I have the same wheels and they're very nice. The only potential issue the down tube is shaped in an oval-like fashion, but it's essentially an aesthetic opinion.


Thanks for the response. That last part especially is the type of info I'm really looking for. Just from doing research, it's pretty easy to get a sense of 105 vs Ultegra vs Apex vs Rival (even if a lot of that is just subjective), but it's much harder to get a sense of wheels, handlebars, stems, etc...


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## getagrip

The 2012 Motobecane Sprint looks really good! I can't yet post links, but here are the specs. Please note that there are other models going for higher prices of bikes with the same name - I'm referring to the one in the "105/Apex Carbon/Ti" area for $899. Personally, I want one! 

New Semi-Compact Geometry, High Modulus CarbonFiber Mono-SeatStay, Kinesis Handmade Double-Butted 7005 Aluminum Main Frame with replaceable derailleur hanger and 2xH2O brazeons 
HT lengths 47/50/52/54/56/58/60/62/64CM=115/130/140/150/170/190/210/230/250mm

Fork
Kinesis StraightBlade 12K CARBON Fiber 1.125 inch steerer
47/50/52/54/56/58/60/62/64CM=203/218/228/238/258/278/298/318/338mm

Derailleurs
Shimano FD-4603, TIAGRA BAND-TYPE 31.8MM FOR TRIPLE front and Shimano RD-5700-L, 105,GS 10-SPEED rear for 30 speed

Shifters
Shimano ST-4600, TIAGRA STI 30 speed

Brake Calipers / Levers
TEKTRO R530 Black Polished Aluminum Dual-Pivot Calipers / Shimano ST-4600, TIAGRA STI Carbon-composite Levers

Hubs
Vuelta XRP PRO Precision sealed bearings, Black Anodized Aluminum w/QR

Rims
Vuelta XRP PRO Black Anodized Aluminum, Double wall, Aero Rim/Spokes

Crank
BottomBracket
FSA VERO TRIPLE UPDATED 50x39x30T Integrated / Cartridge BB

Cassette/Chain 
Shimano CS-4600, TIAGRA 10-SPEED 12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-28T / KMC X10SL SUPER LIGHT 10 spd

Saddle
Skye Racing Turbo with comfort slot

Seatpost
Ritchey Comp 280mmx27.2mm Aluminum

Stem Ritchey Comp Threadless Aluminum, 31.8mm clamp, 1.125 Steerer 
Handlebars
Ritchey Biomax Comp Butted Aluminum Ergo Bar, 31.8mm

Pedals
Road Clipless Pedals
Compatible with SPD bolt pattern / 2-bolt sole pattern (cleats are not shoes) 

Tires/Tubes Continental Ultra Sport, 700X23c / presta valve tubes 
Color White or Yellow 
Sizes 47cm, 50cm 52cm 54cm 56cm 58cm 60cm 62cm 64cm
Geometry Sizing Chart


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## Guest

rover19 said:


> Thanks for the response. That last part especially is the type of info I'm really looking for. Just from doing research, it's pretty easy to get a sense of 105 vs Ultegra vs Apex vs Rival (even if a lot of that is just subjective), but it's much harder to get a sense of wheels, handlebars, stems, etc...


I don't really like the aesthetics of the Gravity bike at all. IMO the Knight/Falkirk frame is the best in that respect. 

The Windsor Knight and Falkirk are essentially identical, one has a blend of Ultegra / FSA /Tektro components (Knight) the other is full SRAM Apex (Falkirk). The superstrada you linked is also full SRAM Apex. I actually like the ergonomics of the shift levers on the SRAM stuff better, but that's something where you have to try both out and decide for yourself. 

One thing a lot of people overlook when comparing BD bikes is gearing. The gearing, IMO, is best on the Knight out of these. Both have similar gearing range (same highest and lowest gears) but the Knight has a triple crank with a narrow-spread cassette (12-25). The Falkirk has a compact double and a super wide 11-32 cassette. This means bigger and, IMO, much more annoying "gaps" in the gear ratios in ranges you'd use for typical steady riding. 

check out the following links at the gear-calculator, you can input your usual riding cadence and visually see what gears correspond to what speeds:

Windsor Falkirk Gearing - gear-calculator.com
Windsor Knight Gearing - gear-calculator.com

If you find you greatly prefer the SRAM ergonomics or really don't want to have a triple crank and opt for the Falkirk, I'd recommend switching the cassette to a 12-27 right away and trying to sell the 11-32 basically unused. Keep in mind this will add some extra cost compared to the Knight. Of course even gearing is a matter of opinion, but IMO I'd rather have more finely spaced gears in ranges I use all the time than a couple seldom used gears that are extremely high or extremely low and which I could live without.


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## e-rock62

Hello, I am new here and this is my first post so be gentle! My wife and I just ordered our first road bikes from Bikes Direct. After looking at LBS's and online and trying to do as much research as we could, including reading what we could find on this forum, we decided to go with the Gravity Comp X. It has the SRAM Rival components and was $749 shipped. We were torn between the Gravity Comp X, the Gravity Liberty X, which has SRAM Apex and was $599, and the Gravity Comp 30, which has Shimano 105 components and sold for $799. After checking out the different Shimano and SRAM shifters in LBS's we decided we liked SRAM better. Most of the $1400 -$2000 bikes had SRAM Apex and to get to the Rival level it was upper $2000 to $3000. We feel pretty good about getting these bikes for $749 with such highly rated components. We will see when they get here and we have them assembled and tuned up and then ride them. Does anyone else have any experience with these Gravity Comp X bikes?


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## rover19

getagrip said:


> The 2012 Motobecane Sprint looks really good!
> ...



I have to agree with you - that's a good looking bike. If it had comparable components, I'd be all over it. I don't think I could justify stepping down to Tiagra just for that paint job though.


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## kidrick

First post for me as well, just joined up but have lurked here for a while. The Gravity X comp is on my list for my wife. I am not too keen on the XRP wheels as they are pretty heavy but BD seems to have gone for the Vuelta wheels in a big way this year. I purchased a Le Champ Ti Inferno last year and am very happy with it. I am struggling with BD bike choices this year. The Sprint tour is a nice looking bike with lighter Vuelta wheels but it comes with a triple crank and I like the Apex better as it is lighter. Hope you enjoy the bikes and would love to hear what they weigh right out of the box. Please weigh and post when you get, if you can. Thanks!


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## lardo

rover19 said:


> Thanks for the response. That last part especially is the type of info I'm really looking for. Just from doing research, it's pretty easy to get a sense of 105 vs Ultegra vs Apex vs Rival (even if a lot of that is just subjective), but it's much harder to get a sense of wheels, handlebars, stems, etc...


I believe the Windsor Knight has the same handlebars as my Ti LC. I really like them since my hands are smaller than the average male.


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## rover19

So I was just about ready to order myself a Windsor Knight, when I double checked the numbers and the geometry. Something about the numbers seems a bit ... strange. Seems like the c-c is shorter than I assumed it'd be, and the top tube is longer. 

This may be simply demonstrate my ignorance, but would someone else mind chiming in as to whether the Knight would be a decent fit? I always assumed the 58 cm frame would work, but now I'm not so sure.

Here are my measurements: https://i.imgur.com/fF6LM.jpg
And here's the Windsor chart: https://windsorbicycles.com/aluminum.htm

Thanks in advance for any help!


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## Guest

rover19 said:


> So I was just about ready to order myself a Windsor Knight, when I double checked the numbers and the geometry. Something about the numbers seems a bit ... strange. Seems like the c-c is shorter than I assumed it'd be, and the top tube is longer.
> 
> This may be simply demonstrate my ignorance, but would someone else mind chiming in as to whether the Knight would be a decent fit? I always assumed the 58 cm frame would work, but now I'm not so sure.
> 
> Here are my measurements: https://i.imgur.com/fF6LM.jpg
> And here's the Windsor chart: https://windsorbicycles.com/aluminum.htm
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help!


Effective top tube is usually considered the most important criterion for fit. Based on that I think the 56cm frame would be a better bet. 56cm top-tube is within the range recommended on your competitive cyclist calculations. 

seat-tube is not as critical (can extend post out further), nor are things like head-tube height (can run spacers to elevate bars if need be). Reach between seat and bars can be adjusted using different length stems. The top tube though is the parameter most closely related to your weight distribution between the front and rear wheels though. It's also usually easier to deal with a slightly too-small frame than a too-large frame as far as dialing in things like weight distribution between the wheels -- as running a shorter frame with longer stem will tend to be more balanced R/F weight and be less sensitive to steering input than a too-big frame with shorter stem. 

Note that many will argue the things I mentioend are themselves compromises (ie running lots of spacers, or really long or short stems etc) and may mean the bike fit is not ideal for you, but of all the parameters, having a top-tube length that is way off is the hardest to work around.


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## froze

I kind of like the Fuji they have on sale; Road Bikes - Road - Fuji ACR 2.0 Road bikes but the sizes are probably way too small. 

Then there's this: Schwinn Road Bikes, Le Tour Legacy, Reynolds 520 Chromoly steel frame road bikes

Or a cross bike in either black or white: SRAM Rival Cyclocross | Cross Bikes, Road Bikes - Motobecane Fantom Cross Pro 

Or a nice Tri bike: Save up to 60% off Triathlon Bikes - Motobecane 2011 Nemesis

Just throwing stuff out to see if something else strikes interest in you or not.


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## rover19

PhotonFreak said:


> Effective top tube is usually considered the most important criterion for fit. Based on that I think the 56cm frame would be a better bet. 56cm top-tube is within the range recommended on your competitive cyclist calculations.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input. 

Based on your comments, and after reading up on others' experiences with the Knight and sizing tips generally, I think I'm leaning towards the 56. Several people who are pretty close to my size - 6'1", 34" inseam - say that the 56 fits them well. When I last visited an LBS, the guy also said I looked like I'd be a 56. Finally, since I eventually want to do some triathlons, it seems to make sense to error on the side of smaller. 
(Quote from another forum: "Very general rule of thumb is to go down a size from your road bike size ie road 56cm tt/tri 54cm frame".)

If anyone thinks otherwise, I'd be happy to hear it. Otherwise, I'll be ordering my 56cm Knight in the morning.


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## rover19

rover19 said:


> Thanks for the input.
> 
> Based on your comments, and after reading up on others' experiences with the Knight and sizing tips generally, I think I'm leaning towards the 56. Several people who are pretty close to my size - 6'1", 34" inseam - say that the 56 fits them well. When I last visited an LBS, the guy also said I looked like I'd be a 56. Finally, since I eventually want to do some triathlons, it seems to make sense to error on the side of smaller.
> (Quote from another forum: "Very general rule of thumb is to go down a size from your road bike size ie road 56cm tt/tri 54cm frame".)
> 
> If anyone thinks otherwise, I'd be happy to hear it. Otherwise, I'll be ordering my 56cm Knight in the morning.


Then BD responded to me saying I should go with the 58... back to the uncertainty and second guessing. I'll be ordering something by the end of the day, one way or another. 

As people so love to point out on these forums, I guess this is why you shop at an LBS when you're a newbie.


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## lardo

I second the top tube comment. Standover doesn't mean much with respect to bike fit. I'd rather ride a bike that is too small than too big. I owned a 54cm Windsor Wellington (I believe it's the same frame), and it felt big for me at 5'7." My reach was too far. That's why I agree with top tube being the most important sizing reference. It's a hard reference point because newbies don't have a bike to compare with.

By the way, according to Bikedirect's Facebook page, they're increasing the Knight's price to $999.


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## rover19

lardo said:


> By the way, according to Bikedirect's Facebook page, they're increasing the Knight's price to $999.


That's what the Knight page says too. 

That's why I'm planning on ordering by the end of the day


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## rover19

Thanks to everyone for the input and advice. Just pulled the trigger on a 56cm Windsor Knight.


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## lardo

Congrats. Welcome to the world of bikes. It's addictive.


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## e-rock62

I got the Gravity Comp X's yesterday. Mine is a 58.5 cm. and my wife's is a 50 cm. I took the bikes directly the the LBS and had them put together and tuned. So, when I got them back this evening I weighed them. Of course this is with the platform pedals that came with it and the tires aired up. They came in at 22.5 lbs. I was surprised that even though my scales go the the 1/10th of a pound, both the 58.5 and the 50 came in exactly at 22.5 lbs. They are very nice looking bikes. It was dark when I got home, but I couldn't help running it up the street and back. Mind you I am switching from a cheap, heavy mountain bike with twist shifters so this bike felt awesome. I just have to get used to the SRAM Rival shifters. I will give more details after I ride more as the weather permits. So far very happy with these bikes for $750.


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## WTFcyclist

*Super Strada VS 2011 GT GTR Series 2*









2011 GT GTR Series 2 SRAM Apex Road Bike - Exclusive - Road Bikes
$899.00

This GT come with lighter wheels and Sram Apex (except brakes). But it depends on which gearing you want.


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## rover19

WTFcyclist said:


> 2011 GT GTR Series 2 SRAM Apex Road Bike - Exclusive - Road Bikes
> $899.00
> 
> This GT come with lighter wheels and Sram Apex (except brakes). But it depends on which gearing you want.


While that does appear to be a very nice bike for the money, I think it may have something to do with the fact that it's a 2011 model that's only available in small and extra small.


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## jpfirefly

My best friend just bought the 2012 Super Strada on Wednesday. When it arrives we'll post the unboxing and rate initial build quality.


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## rover19

I ended up getting the Windsor Knight. My gf got the Gravity Liberty Comp. Planning on doing a post soon as well...


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## CalgaryDave

My girlfriend, a road newbie but intermediate mountain biker, just ordered a Motobecane Grand Sprint for $1200. She's stoked, as am I. Our local terrain is hilly/mountainous so the triple crank plus relatively light wheelset were the key components for her.


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## Jetfire

I usually do singletrack riding and still will, but after my wife got a road bike I found myself falling back or going too hard and running out of energy. I just purchased the BD Gravity Comp X, I really like the SRAM gears that I have on my MTB. I look forward to getting my bike this week and sharing my experiance with you guys, hopfully I will be able to keep up with my wifes Madone


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## wooglins

If possible try to get a model that is made in Taiwan and not China. Not that the Chinesse models are bad, but the Taiwan made frames are just that much better. The Century is very good choice, and is a bike you can upgrade and grow with for quite a while.

Your price point puts you in an odd spot in-between the entry level/midrange and the beginning of the upper tier models at 1399 and up.

The other option if you live near a larger metro area is to hit craigslist. There are crazy good deals on used bike on any given day. I have seen 5k bikes go for 1k on a regular basis here in Nashville.


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## Jetfire

My plans are to upgrade things over time, I just wanted a base road bike to start with so I can get out there and see if I like road biking with the wife. I dropped my Trek Cobia MTB off last night for maitenence and tested a couple of Trek Road Bikes, I think I will enjoy the fitness of it, but will miss the in the woods feeling so I guess having the best of both worlds will be awesome. Either way I think I will enjoy the SRAM Rival gear set, but have not triend anything on the higher end of the scale. Hopfully I won't be judged by my generic bike, I suppose I could just put brewery stickers all over the logos


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## rover19

wooglins said:


> If possible try to get a model that is made in Taiwan and not China. Not that the Chinesse models are bad, but the Taiwan made frames are just that much better. The Century is very good choice, and is a bike you can upgrade and grow with for quite a while.


I ended up getting a Windsor Knight. It appears that the frame was made in Taiwan.



> The other option if you live near a larger metro area is to hit craigslist. There are crazy good deals on used bike on any given day. I have seen 5k bikes go for 1k on a regular basis here in Nashville.


I scanned Craigslist here in NYC for quite a while and I never found anything that caught my attention. Either I have no clue what I was looking at, or the deals just aren't here to be found.


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## Jetfire

I had a freind buy a bike off of craiglist only to find out later it was stolen. The crimal forged some papers that made it look like he was the original owner and my friend didnt look into it any further. So when the original owner ran into my friend on a trail he recognized his bike had the serial # and pictures of the bike in the car and called the police. My friend had to give the bike back, the owner gave my friend the $100 reward, but he was still out some money. My friend still had the address and # of the guy he bought the bike from and gave it to the police. 

So CL is a too risky for me, I'll buy new everytime


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## jpfirefly

I'd promised build pics of my friend's Super Strada. I'll post those soon, but the bike came yesterday and here is the timelapse of our build. The first ride was fantastic.

New Bike Assembly - YouTube

The only immediately obvious upgrade he needs to make is the saddle. It's really lousy.


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## wooglins

Jetfire said:


> I had a freind buy a bike off of craiglist only to find out later it was stolen. The crimal forged some papers that made it look like he was the original owner and my friend didnt look into it any further. So when the original owner ran into my friend on a trail he recognized his bike had the serial # and pictures of the bike in the car and called the police. My friend had to give the bike back, the owner gave my friend the $100 reward, but he was still out some money. My friend still had the address and # of the guy he bought the bike from and gave it to the police.
> 
> So CL is a too risky for me, I'll buy new everytime


My guess is that is rare. I will only buy from fellow riders on craigslist. If someone cant give me details about when they last rode the bike, where a part came from,etc... then I steer clear.


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## lardo

I bought a used bike off CL.

I asked for the guy's ID and wrote down his DL number, name, address and asked him to sign a statement that I was purchasing off the guy. If they're sketchy about that, then I'd steer clear of that sale and might even report it to the police.


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## froze

lardo said:


> I bought a used bike off CL.
> 
> I asked for the guy's ID and wrote down his DL number, name, address and asked him to sign a statement that I was purchasing off the guy. If they're sketchy about that, then I'd steer clear of that sale and might even report it to the police.


I've bought a couple of bikes off of CL and never asked for a written statement of sale, but then again they were older people that owned nice homes so it never worried me. If it was a younger person living in an apartment then I would probably get a written statement and ask for ID. How's that for profiling?


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## tecrose

flatsix911 said:


> Based on your intended usage you would be fine with any of your initial choices, however, you might considering upgrading your budget to $1,200.
> Upgrading components later can be very expensive and end result may not be cost effective. Have you considered a Tri / Road bike as an option?
> 
> *Shimano 105 20 Speed Fuji ACR 2.0 $895*
> 
> *SRAM Apex, 2x10 speed Century Comp $1195*
> 
> *Shimano 105, 20 Speed Kestrel Talon Carbon Triathlon $1,399*
> 
> /QUOTE]
> 
> I'm also considering the Century Comp and Kestrel Talon for my first carbon fiber road bike. I have long legs and short torso. The competitive cyclist fit gave me 51.6-53.3 top tube length and 55-59 seat tube length (c-t). I'm not sure which frame fits me better. Also which frame is arguably better quality between the too? I don't mind 105 vs. apex though. Thanks guys for your help! :thumbsup:


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## RyKnocks

I'm really interested in your girlfriends Liberty Comp. How is she liking it so far? I have this bike on my short list for my first road bike.


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## rover19

RyKnocks said:


> I'm really interested in your girlfriends Liberty Comp. How is she liking it so far? I have this bike on my short list for my first road bike.


She actually hasn't taken it out yet. She still needs to go buy some shoes...

Once she has a chance to take it for a spin, I plan on posting some pics and initial thoughts on both.


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## flatsix911

tecrose said:


> flatsix911 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Based on your intended usage you would be fine with any of your initial choices, however, you might considering upgrading your budget to $1,200.
> Upgrading components later can be very expensive and end result may not be cost effective. Have you considered a Tri / Road bike as an option?
> 
> *Shimano 105 20 Speed Fuji ACR 2.0 $895*
> 
> *SRAM Apex, 2x10 speed Century Comp $1195*
> SRAM Apex Carbon Road bikes - 2012 Motobecane Century Comp
> 
> *Shimano 105, 20 Speed Kestrel Talon Carbon Triathlon $1,399*
> Shimano 105 equipped Road Bikes, Roadbikes - 2011 Kestrel Talon Road
> 
> 
> 
> I'm also considering the Century Comp and Kestrel Talon for my first carbon fiber road bike. I have long legs and short torso. The competitive cyclist fit gave me 51.6-53.3 top tube length and 55-59 seat tube length (c-t). I'm not sure which frame fits me better. Also which frame is arguably better quality between the too? I don't mind 105 vs. apex though. Thanks guys for your help! :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Both frames would fit you well based on the CC fit guide. 
I would go with a 52cm size on the Kestrel Talon or the 53cm size on Century Comp. 
The Kestrel is a bit more aggressive than the Century. The Century is more relaxed. 
Both frames are high quality carbon - the Kestrel would be a bit stiffer and lighter.
Shimano 105 and SRAM Apex are both excellent - comes down to personal preference.


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## tecrose

flatsix911 said:


> Both frames would fit you well based on the CC fit guide.
> I would go with a 52cm size on the Kestrel Talon or the 53cm size on Century Comp.
> The Kestrel is a bit more aggressive than the Century. The Century is more relaxed.
> Both frames are high quality carbon - the Kestrel would be a bit stiffer and lighter.
> Shimano 105 and SRAM Apex are both excellent - comes down to personal preference.


Thanks for the reply. The seat stay of the Kestrel is bonded to the one-piece main triangle, while the Motobecane Century Comp has a one-piece frame. Should one be concerned about the bonded seat stay regarding the strength and stiffness? Also I read about the bottom bracket cracks on the motobecane frames caused by facing the BB. I wonder if this is still an issue now. Maybe some one who owns the Century or Le Champion can chime in.


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## froze

I don't know anything about the cracking of the BB of the Motobecane in particular, but a lot of CF bikes had that issue at one time or another including numerous Treks. 

I personally like the Kestrel because the frame looks stouter then the Century Comp. Also I've never read anything bad about the Kestrel which has had that design for some time. Also the bike would be a better platform to build on at a later date as the need arises, like better wheels, better components etc. A nice set of deep aero wheels like IRD or Kinlin or Velocity would make that bike really nice for racing or just going faster, the Kinlin is the lowest cost option of the three and would cost about $475 or so for a complete wheel set. Then when components fail you can upgrade those as needed to either Sram or higher levels of Shimano stuff. Also the Kestrel looks more expensive...if that matters.

Just my opinion.


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## tecrose

Thanks flatsix911 and froze for your advice. I decided to go with the Kestrel Talon. Should be here next week. I've never had a carbon fiber bike before. Anything that I need to pay special attention to? I heard that sometimes if it accidentally falls over it could cause damage to the frame, which makes me nervous...


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## froze

tecrose said:


> Thanks flatsix911 and froze for your advice. I decided to go with the Kestrel Talon. Should be here next week. I've never had a carbon fiber bike before. Anything that I need to pay special attention to? I heard that sometimes if it accidentally falls over it could cause damage to the frame, which makes me nervous...


I've been riding bikes for over 40 years and to have a bike fall over is a rare event, the only time you would suffer damage is if the bike fell over and hit a sharp object that cut the paint and into the fiber. I knew someone who had a Trek and he parked his in the garage by leaning against a work bench, and his 5 year old daughter came in and somehow bumped the bike and it fell hitting a vice that was on the floor, the vice nicked the fibers and the bike shop totaled the frame. But that was 10 years ago, today there are places that can fix that, back then there was none, and places like Calfee can even fix certain types of broken frames. The only thing you have to be careful about is chain suck, that's where the chain falls off the inner ring gear while pedaling and the chain gouges the chain stay; but you can buy chain stay protectors to place on those areas to prevent the chain from doing that. Also if you do your own work on your bikes you have to be careful that you don't overclamp the bike stand to the seat post or you could crush it; and if you over torque a clamp like a stem around a CF handlebar you could crush the handlebar, over tighten the bolts for mounting a the water bottle cage could strip out the threads, etc. If you do your own wrenching you need to buy a inch pound torque wrench and follow factory specs for torquing whatever your working on.

Anyway read this for a lot more detail: Caring For Carbon Fiber Bicycles And Components - jimlangley.com It's a lot of reading but well worth the time.

You might want to take the bike to a LBS to have them do the set up on it, and make sure they go through the entire bike from head to toe making sure bottom bracket, headset is secure and all other components are secure, check the chain for any stiff links or pins not inserted correctly, and check the spoke tension to make sure their correct, all components are adjusted properly, etc before you ride it...just to be safe. It may cost you $75 to $100 dollars but it could save you a headache. Then after about 30 days of riding take it back in for a final after break in adjustment. Just a suggestion. I mention all of this because a poster on this forum just had a problem with a stiff chain link that grabbed the rear derailleur tearing it apart and bending his dropout, see: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/co...r-broke-whose-fault-276202-7.html#post3849440 Granted it's a rare event, but you want to eliminate rare events!!!

Congrats by the way on the purchase, that's a great looking bike at a reasonable cost, you should really like it. Let us know what your first ride impressions are.


----------



## jpfirefly

tecrose did you go with the road or tri version?


----------



## tecrose

Thanks froze for your advice! I'll read the jimlangley article on that. Also is there any online resource that I can educate my self regarding the proper assembly and setting up of the bike? I'm mechanically inclined. i service my own cars (vw and audi, you know, they are full of problems ). With some learning I can probably handle bike services.

Jpfirefly, I went with the road version.


----------



## geekycyclist

*same question?*

Ok, do not mean to hijack a thread, but I am kind off in the same position as the original poster, although 4 weeks later, and do not think a new thread is better.

I am considering the following, in order of price I guess. (Sorry no links due to post count).

i) Windsor Fens bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/fens_xi.htm
ii) Windsor Falkirk (which is now with Apex) bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/falkirk_xi_apex.htm
iii) Motobecane Super Strada (that appears on quick review to be pretty much the same as the Falkirk and may come down to looks). bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/super_strada_xii.htm
iv) Windsor Knight bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/knight_x.htm
v) 2011 Motobecane Sprint (with Ultegras) bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/sprint_x.htm

My main question is related to the drive/gears. 105 triple vs Apex double vs Ultegra triple?

Is the difference in quality/shifting between the 3, major for an athletic but not professional rider? The 34/32 gearing on the Apex seems great for making any hills easy. Will the gaps in the Apex double make a major difference in the regular riding?

Is there anything else on the 3 that justifies the $300 difference from the cheapest to the most expensive, again for the average athletic rider?

I guess what will make the difference is if your responses are overall set on a specific one. 

More information to hopefully help with educated responses:

The bike is for my girlfriend, who although overall athletic, has not had a road bike before. She rides her mountain bike occassionally, but also it is a 10 year old heavy bike, and after an injury with her knee last year, too heavy to be comfortable. 

Not sure how much she will get into riding, so do want to limit the spending amount, but from other aspect, as I expect she will like it, do not want her to outgrow it immediately either. We are in NYC as well, so although expecting she will be more occassional of a rider than me, do expect she will want to do a few 50-75 mile tours, and bound to go through some nice hills. Thus the question mark with the Apex 34/32 gear and her knee vs. the Shimano setups on the others and less gaps. 

I bought a 2011 Sprint (with Ultegras) from Bikesdirect 18 months ago, and although I have not spent as much time as I would like on it, I changing that slowly, and I absolutely have loved that bike since the moment I got it. If your responses favor both the Ultegra and the lower gears, may just shell out the $300 extra from the Fens for one for her, and get the Ultegra triple 11-28 setup, but also do not want to do it just because given the question mark of her liking riding.

Other information:

She is around 115-120 lbs, 5.3'' with a 28.5 inseam (without shoes), so was thinking for a 50mm (although will check specific geometries). 

Yes, this is for a girl that likes looks, but is also practical, so appearance may make a difference as well but as long as one is not grotesque, not that much. I am assuming that the men's vs. women's bike will not make a difference for her, but am I missing something?

Yes, I know that a lot may say go to a LBS, but given my very positive experience with BD, I would rather get her a much nicer bike for the same money. I do feel that the fit will be good and can be adjusted enough for her to be comfortable. 

Thanks beforehand for any responses.


----------



## froze

tecrose said:


> Thanks froze for your advice! I'll read the jimlangley article on that. Also is there any online resource that I can educate my self regarding the proper assembly and setting up of the bike? I'm mechanically inclined. i service my own cars (vw and audi, you know, they are full of problems ). With some learning I can probably handle bike services.
> 
> Jpfirefly, I went with the road version.


You can order the CD and a mini tool kit from Bikes Direct that shows you how to assemble the bike as well as other repair situations; see: DVD, CD and Vuelta XRP Mini Tool Kit 

And you can also review You Tube videos at: assembling a new bicycle out of the box - YouTube.


----------



## froze

geekycyclist said:


> Ok, do not mean to hijack a thread, but I am kind off in the same position as the original poster, although 4 weeks later, and do not think a new thread is better.
> 
> I am considering the following, in order of price I guess. (Sorry no links due to post count).
> 
> i) Windsor Fens bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/fens_xi.htm
> ii) Windsor Falkirk (which is now with Apex) bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/falkirk_xi_apex.htm
> iii) Motobecane Super Strada (that appears on quick review to be pretty much the same as the Falkirk and may come down to looks). bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/super_strada_xii.htm
> iv) Windsor Knight bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/knight_x.htm
> v) 2011 Motobecane Sprint (with Ultegras) bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/sprint_x.htm
> 
> My main question is related to the drive/gears. 105 triple vs Apex double vs Ultegra triple?
> 
> Is the difference in quality/shifting between the 3, major for an athletic but not professional rider? The 34/32 gearing on the Apex seems great for making any hills easy. Will the gaps in the Apex double make a major difference in the regular riding?
> 
> Is there anything else on the 3 that justifies the $300 difference from the cheapest to the most expensive, again for the average athletic rider?
> 
> I guess what will make the difference is if your responses are overall set on a specific one.
> 
> More information to hopefully help with educated responses:
> 
> The bike is for my girlfriend, who although overall athletic, has not had a road bike before. She rides her mountain bike occassionally, but also it is a 10 year old heavy bike, and after an injury with her knee last year, too heavy to be comfortable.
> 
> Not sure how much she will get into riding, so do want to limit the spending amount, but from other aspect, as I expect she will like it, do not want her to outgrow it immediately either. We are in NYC as well, so although expecting she will be more occassional of a rider than me, do expect she will want to do a few 50-75 mile tours, and bound to go through some nice hills. Thus the question mark with the Apex 34/32 gear and her knee vs. the Shimano setups on the others and less gaps.
> 
> I bought a 2011 Sprint (with Ultegras) from Bikesdirect 18 months ago, and although I have not spent as much time as I would like on it, I changing that slowly, and I absolutely have loved that bike since the moment I got it. If your responses favor both the Ultegra and the lower gears, may just shell out the $300 extra from the Fens for one for her, and get the Ultegra triple 11-28 setup, but also do not want to do it just because given the question mark of her liking riding.
> 
> Other information:
> 
> She is around 115-120 lbs, 5.3'' with a 28.5 inseam (without shoes), so was thinking for a 50mm (although will check specific geometries).
> 
> Yes, this is for a girl that likes looks, but is also practical, so appearance may make a difference as well but as long as one is not grotesque, not that much. I am assuming that the men's vs. women's bike will not make a difference for her, but am I missing something?
> 
> Yes, I know that a lot may say go to a LBS, but given my very positive experience with BD, I would rather get her a much nicer bike for the same money. I do feel that the fit will be good and can be adjusted enough for her to be comfortable.
> 
> Thanks beforehand for any responses.


Well first off is the frame material differences, 6061 vs 7005, 7005 is roughly about 5% to 10% stronger then 6061, I would rather have the slightly stronger frame. However there's a problem with my statement in that there are different kinds of 6061 and BD doesn't say which 6061 their using, 6061 T6 is the best of the 6061 tube sets; and 7005 has 2 different tube sets...not heated treated and heat treated, heat treated being the best of any aluminium tube set on the market and is found on high end bikes; and again BD doesn't say which theirs is. You could try e-mailing BD and find out if they know which tube sets they use. I would lean towards any bike with the 7005 tube set.

Also pay attention to the frame specs, make sure the bike you want has replaceable dropout so that in the event of an accident effecting the rear of the bike the dropouts are designed to bend and break away hopefully saving the rear stays from damage, then simply order new dropouts and away you go. So that eliminates the Windsor Knight.

I would choose SRAM Apex over Shimano 105 due to the Apex double tap system and it being able to run 11-32 cassette vs 12-28 with 105. However if your riding on flat terrain with no large hills or mountains then having a 11-32 cassette won't benefit you...but it's nice to know you have it in case you travel or move some day to a place that does have large hills or mountains.

So that leaves you with three choices, either the Windsor Falkirk, Motobecane Sprint, or the Motobecane Super Strata. All three come with the same rims and hubs so there's no advantage to any of them with that. However the Sprint comes with Ultegra which is better and lighter then the Apex and that's why it cost more money. One thing to consider though, if a Ultegra component like a brake levers/shifter breaks it will cost you over $200 to replace just one lever, whereas the Apex will cost about $125. So you have to weigh out if it's worth it to get the Ultegra over the Apex and not worry about potential replacement cost of the components.

Looks wise, that's her personal opinion mine wouldn't matter one bit. If she only weighs 115 to 120 pound range the Windsor may be too stiff, take a look at the diameter of the down tube vs the other two; also the Sprint has carbon fiber stays and forks which should make the bike more comfortable to ride then either of the two other bikes.

Now your probably more confused...sorry


----------



## TheJaymz

First Post!

To start with I would like to thank everyone for all the great advice lent to this thread. I’ve been putting in some research into buying a road bike and I pulled the trigger on a ‘Windsor Falkirk SRAM Apex’ last week. After reading all the comments I was going to go with the ‘Windsor Fens’ but BD dropped the price of the Falkirk by $100 and the full SRAM set was very appealing as opposed to the mixed SRAM set on the Fens. I believe the Falkirk should be a little lighter with the APEX components and compact crankset. I should be getting the bike by the end of this week, I’ll post an update after I get to do a little riding.

Secondly, I had a hard time as well trying to figure out which size I should order. Ordering anything online without being able to test fit is always risky but I went down to my LBS and road a friend’s bike which fit nicely. I ordered the 56cm frame, it’s identical to the bike I road and what was recommended by the LBS.

One last thing, the BD sale ends 4/15 so if you’re still on the fence about which bike to order you may want to check to see if they dropped the price on one that was just out of your original price range. 


~ J


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## froze

Congrats on the new bike. 

BD does have a CD with a mini tool designed to be able to assemble the bike, also there are You Tube videos you can watch on how to assemble a bike out of the box. However, if your new to bicycle mechanics and are not mechanically inclined you need to take the bike to an LBS and have them do the assembly, it will cost about $75 to $100 to do. When they do the assembly make sure they check the chain for any stiff links, or improperly installed link pins, and chain alignment. And have them check spoke tension on the wheels.


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## TheJaymz

Thanks froze!

I did my own assembly for the MTB I bought online then brought it to a LBS for fine tuning. Even though I still had to do further brake adjustments after I got the MTB back I'm still bringing this new bike to get tuned after my assembly and test ride. I'll still watch those youtube videos and check the chain as you suggest. I should have this bike before the weekend which should give me time to get a good ride in.

Thanks
~ J


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## froze

Factory made bikes and parts on rare occasion come screwed up out of the factory. There was one such person who was on this forum,that bought a BD bike and the chain malfunctioned causing the derailleur to break and the replaceable dropout to bend, he had ridden the bike once or twice when this event took place. BD though has great customer service and immediately sent him a new chain, derailleur, and dropout, which he took to an LBS and they installed it for a charge, I think he said $35 for labor. No component manufacture will pay for labor under the warranty provisions...not sure why. But this person had a LBS assemble the bicycle, but they failed to check the chain for irregularities, and most LBS's won't check the spoke tension either when they assemble a bike.


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## jpfirefly

2012 Super Strada

Damn I need a better camera.


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## rover19

froze said:


> Factory made bikes and parts on rare occasion come screwed up out of the factory. There was one such person who was on this forum,that bought a BD bike and the chain malfunctioned causing the derailleur to break and the replaceable dropout to bend, he had ridden the bike once or twice when this event took place. BD though has great customer service and immediately sent him a new chain, derailleur, and dropout, which he took to an LBS and they installed it for a charge, I think he said $35 for labor. No component manufacture will pay for labor under the warranty provisions...not sure why. But this person had a LBS assemble the bicycle, but they failed to check the chain for irregularities, and most LBS's won't check the spoke tension either when they assemble a bike.


Yup; that person was me. (I also started this thread, which helped me decide to buy the bike in the first place!) 

The customer service was really great in getting the parts replaced via warranty. It required no back-and-forth and shipping was quick. Local labor costs ended up costing closer to $50 though. 

I intend to do a full write-up at some point, but I basically haven't touched the bike since the chain broke. The same night I had my bike problems, I ended up spraining my ankle and haven't been out since!


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## TheJaymz

Great advice!

I did the assembly of my Falkirk but the rear derailleur seemed to be off no matter how I adjusted it. I took it the LBS and turns out it was mounted 3mm off. The shop did a full safety tune and the bike shifts super smooth now. The shop was great, they did the adjustments while I waited and only charged me $25 even though their website quotes the service as $35.

For $799.95 + $25 tune up I think I came out way ahead. The Falkirk is really responsive and feels like a really fast bike so far. I guess I'll have a better feel for the bike once I put some serious miles on it.

Thanks all!


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## froze

That Falkirk is a pretty nice looking bike, and they had it on a sale price that was lower then their normal price so you got a great deal on a nice bike. Congrats. Now ride the heck out of it!!


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## sbush85

First post!

I'm a pretty serious runner (40-70 miles per week, marathons and beyond) looking to scale back on mileage this summer/fall, and spend more time cross-training 2-3 x per week on a solid road bike.

Looking to order from BikesDirect and have assembly done at my LBS, as well as future tune-ups. I've already been sized by a couple shops right around 56 cm for a Trek 1.2 / 1.5… I'm just looking to get better components out of the box for the same price.

My budget falls in the $800 - $1,200 range… I am prepared to swap out the saddle and pedals immediately, but would like to keep all other components "stock" for the next two or so years before I start thinking about upgrades.

I started out considering the 2012 Vent Noir, but am curious with a $1,200 ceiling if I can get more bang for my buck on frame/components.

Here's what I'm looking at right now (apparently I can't provide links since this is my first post... dang):

• 30 Spd Tiagra/105 Carbon Fork/Alum Bike Motobecane Vent Noir NEW $799

• 20 Spd SRAM Apex Full Carbon Frame/Fork Motobecane Century Comp SRAM Apex $1195

• 30 Spd Ultegra 6700 6061 Aluminum Bikes Windsor Knight SALE $999

• 30 Spd Ultegra 6700 FSA Cranks+CarbStays Motobecane Grand Sprint $1199

All advice appreciated. I'm just starting to learn about components, and how all the different names compare (e.g., Ultegra vs Apex vs Tiagra), so that's where I could use the most guidance.

Thanks!


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## froze

If you want a radical bike, BD has this on sale for $1299, yes I know it's a $100 over budget but it's a great bike and worth the extra $100, but sizes are limited; see: http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/kestrel/talon_road_bikes_105.htm It is a tri bike, but it's aero and fast, but you may not like the way the handlebars are.

The Century Comp you mentioned is a good choice too, as is this bike with Ultegra; see: http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/condor/sb_s6d.htm

You did mention in your post you were wanting to do cyclocross, yet none of the bikes you mentioned or the ones I mentioned above are intended for that purpose. If you want a cyclocross bike then perhaps take a gander at this: http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fantom_cross_pro_rival.htm Sizes are limited but white seems to have the larger selection left, but you may fit one of the black sizes left.

It's difficult for us to say that this or that bike is the best, your just going to have to choose one. I think any bike with the Sram Rival or the Shimano Ultegra or the 105 driveline is a good bet.

Keep in mind, any carbon fiber frame, or a frame with CF stays will only have a one year warranty, aluminum frame will have a 10 year warranty.


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## jazzbolicious

You need to try SRAM (apex, rival) in person to compare it to Shimano (tiagra, 105, ultegra). The shifting feel is different, as are the ergonomics.

If you're going to go Shimano, I prefer the looks of the Vent Noir, but give the Fens a look too. It's $799 and gives you 105 components over the Vent Noir's Tiagra setup. If you're going SRAM, the Condor Superbird and Motobecane Super Strada are both solid values at $899.


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## sbush85

Interesting, thanks for the info. I'm also taking a hard look at the Fantom Cross bikes -- looks like the main difference is SRAM Rival on the Pro (#2 below) vs 105/Tiagra on the Outlaw (#1 below)... also, disc brakes on the Outlaw. This may be a better choice for me than the straight road bikes because I can use for commuting to work, trips around town with rear rack (groceries/errands), road biking, and also some light trail stuff on dirt/rock paths... are the tires tough enough for this stuff?

What are the main advantages/disadvantages of each, and SRAM vs 105/Tiagra aside, which way would you guys lean on this?


(1) FANTOM CROSS OUTLAW $999

Shimano 105/Tiagra, 18Spd Cross +Disc
Cyclocross Bikes

2012 Motobecane
Fantom Cross Outlaw
SALE $999.95 (List $1999)

Carbon Fork and Aluminum Frame
Powerful Avid BB5 Disc Brakes


(2) FANTOM CROSS PRO $1,199

SRAM Rival, 20 Speed Cross Bike

2012 Motobecane
Fantom Cross PRO
with SRAM Rival
(List $2195)

NOW $1,199
Sale While Supplies Last

Carbon Fiber Cross Fork, 
FSA External Bearing Crank
Aluminum Frame+Rear Rack mounts
Custom Bar/Stem/Post, Mavic Wheels


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## jazzbolicious

I wouldn't get a 9 speed setup today if the word "upgrade" has ever entered your mind, even if it's in the long term. Have you looked at the 2012 Motobecane Fantom Cross? It's SRAM Apex, $899, and basically the same in most other respects to the two bikes you're looking at here. Disc brakes are nice, especially if you're looking for this to be a commuter/winter bike. They are certainly a bit trickier to maintain/setup IMO. The cross pro is a better bike, hands down, but really I'd set a hard budget, $300 is a big difference at this price point.

I think BD offers some great deals, but if you're not picky about brands/appearance (which I'm guessing you're not if you're looking at BD in the first place), I'd check out the closeouts from Performance Bike, Chain Reaction, and Wiggle. If you've never checked out Ribble Bikes and Planet X Bikes before, you should. They're sort of like a UK version of BD, but with the ability to completely configure a bike how you want. They sell lots of other stuff there, but their house brand bikes are great from what I've heard.


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## froze

Why not a 9 speed? because of upgrades? If you have triple front how many freaking gears does one need? 9 speed chains are a bit wider then the 10 and 11 speed chains and thus the chain will last longer. Also what is this upgrading about anyway? The most critical component to up grade is the wheels, not going from 9 to 10 speed, kind of silly to spend $500 or so for 3 more gears.

Now I have a real out of the ballpark suggestion, one I' sure you'll scream about, but what the heck, after all forums are mostly about opinions anyways. If you plan on keeping this bike for many years, then why not just go nuts and get it over with? And by nuts I mean this: Titanium Cyclocross Bicycles | Road Bikes - Motobecane Fantom Cross Team Titanium | Cross Bikes That bike is a lifetime bike, it even comes with a lifetime warranty on the frame. Yup, it's more money, but it is Titanium which makes it lighter weight and it gives you a great frame to not only keep for life but not feel bad about upgrading a worn out aluminum frame in 5 to 10 years. If you think that you may like such a bike, but the money is not there, then why not wait a few more months to save the money and then buy it? You're really only $600 higher then the Fantom Cross Pro, not really all that much more. I know it's a crazy suggestion, but it's what I would do if you were me...but you're not me, so you have to decide what's best for you.


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## jazzbolicious

Everyone has to set a budget somewhere... Of course the Cross Team Ti is a better bike... If you can afford it. As far as 9 vs 10 speed, it's a matter of longevity (your argument for the Ti) as much as it is for upgradability.

When your 9 speed components wear out, what are you going to replace them with? Shimano is dumping their support for 9 speed road components, as seen with this year's Tiagra update to 10 speed. If you go 10 speed now, every individual component can be swapped/exchanged/upgraded however you want within tiagra(2012)/105/ultegra/dura ace range. 10 speed = Flexibility for the future.


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## froze

jazzbolicious said:


> Everyone has to set a budget somewhere... Of course the Cross Team Ti is a better bike... If you can afford it. As far as 9 vs 10 speed, it's a matter of longevity (your argument for the Ti) as much as it is for upgradability.
> 
> When your 9 speed components wear out, what are you going to replace them with? Shimano is dumping their support for 9 speed road components, as seen with this year's Tiagra update to 10 speed. If you go 10 speed now, every individual component can be swapped/exchanged/upgraded however you want within tiagra(2012)/105/ultegra/dura ace range. 10 speed = Flexibility for the future.


You made a good point. But 9 speeds will always be supported to some degree. I've got older friction freewheel bikes and I can still find brand new chains and freewheels, several companies still make them, and this is 80's technology bikes. So someone will support the 9 speed as well, there's too many bikes on the market using 9 speed systems, it would be foolish to just stop all manufacturing of 9 speed products. And even in the very remote possibility they did, E-bay and online bike shops and even LBS's will have enough new in box stock on hand to last at least another 20 years. I can find NIB products for my old Suntour stuff that hasn't been made in over 20 years.

The Ti Motobecane solves this argument because it comes with a 10 speed system.


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## Jason1500

Hmm looking through BDs inventory if I had a budget of around $900 I'd be strongly considering that beautiful Schwinn Legacy steel bike with 105 components for $800 plus it gives u some breathing room in the budget to get the bike professionally setup and fitted.


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## wakali

Hi all, first post, couldn't start a new thread. 
I'm planning on getting a road bike from BD very soon. The Fuji SL 3.0 cought my eye. I'd like everyones opinion about it. I know it's CF so it should be light. I am however not familiar with the drivetrain that comes with it. I normally ride a mountain bike and know nothing about road bikes. I'd like a more upright position and comfortable ride. Budget is >=$1200. Questions are as follows:

1: Good? bad? drivetrain...
2: Bike geometry for comfort?
3: How do you think Fuji will stack-up to other BD bike?
4: Any bike suggestions....?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## froze

wakali said:


> Hi all, first post, couldn't start a new thread.
> I'm planning on getting a road bike from BD very soon. The Fuji SL 3.0 cought my eye. I'd like everyones opinion about it. I know it's CF so it should be light. I am however not familiar with the drivetrain that comes with it. I normally ride a mountain bike and know nothing about road bikes. I'd like a more upright position and comfortable ride. Budget is >=$1200. Questions are as follows:
> 
> 1: Good? bad? drivetrain...
> 2: Bike geometry for comfort?
> 3: How do you think Fuji will stack-up to other BD bike?
> 4: Any bike suggestions....?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


I have a problem with CF frame bicycles, but setting that personal opinion aside, I really have a major problem with cheap CF frame bicycles. Your not going to find a well constructed CF frame bike for less then 2k and then find one for a thousand that includes the components and wheels? 

And low cost CF is not light weight, a bike like that will weigh close to 21 pounds...I have steel bikes from the 80's that weigh that much!!! 

Also the reviews you may read are for the SL 3.0 PRO the one on BD site is not the Pro bike. Also Fuji is no longer Fuji, the company is only a name now.

I know your trying to find something that would fit into the CF crowd of riders you hang with or will be seen with, but sorry, but I would stay far far away from low cost CF bicycles...just an opinion.

I kind of also like the Schwinn Legacy steel bike with 105 components for $800 mentioned by Jason1800, I didn't see that bike before. This bike would last a lifetime, if cared for. It has better components and wheels then the Fuji and probably weighs the same. Read this for more info: Gear and Bike Reviews: The Le Tour Legacy Review at Bicycling.com The tires mentioned on that review are 700c x 28's, the BD bike comes with 25's which are a bit narrower and perfect for street use. It also has eyelets for either panniers or fenders which would be great for light touring or commuting in bad weather. See this from BD: Schwinn Road Bikes, Le Tour Legacy, Reynolds 520 Chromoly steel frame road bikes

This Schwinn would look really cool with a Brooks or a knockoff of Brooks leather saddle in a honey or a brown; here's a pretty good knock off: VO Saddle, Model 6 - Saddles - Components And you can get bar tape to match at the same place. These leather saddles are a tad heavy but a pleasure to sit on because they conform to your butt rather then forcing your butt to conform to it. Just an idea.

I still think you should save a bit more money and get one of the BD Motobecane TI bikes, but again that's just my opinion.

But if you need something now and want it for cheap and you don't like the steel bike idea then instead of the CF Fuji Bike Directs has this for sale too: Save up to 60% off Shimano equipped Road Bikes - Windsor Fens Shimano Equipped Bicycles Save up to 60% off List price with 105 components which would weight the same as the Fuji maybe a tad bit less.


----------



## wakali

froze said:


> And low cost CF is not light weight, a bike like that will weigh close to 21 pounds...I have steel bikes from the 80's that weigh that much!!!
> But if you need something now and want it for cheap and you don't like the steel bike idea then instead of the CF Fuji Bike Directs has this for sale too: Save up to 60% off Shimano equipped Road Bikes - Windsor Fens Shimano Equipped Bicycles Save up to 60% off List price[/url] with 105 components which would weight the same as the Fuji maybe a tad bit less.


Thank you for your advise. The Windsor also caught my eye but I was looking at the Knight. I'm assuming it's the same frmae... Is it worth the $200 for Ultegra parts and nicer wheels? Is the knight going to be comfortable ride, more upright?


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## flatsix911

The Fuji SL 3.0 it is a great deal for a Carbon bike :thumbsup: 
My answers to your questions posted in *bold* below:



wakali said:


> Hi all, first post, couldn't start a new thread.
> I'm planning on getting a road bike from BD very soon. The Fuji SL 3.0 cought my eye. I'd like everyones opinion about it. I know it's CF so it should be light. I am however not familiar with the drivetrain that comes with it. I normally ride a mountain bike and know nothing about road bikes. I'd like a more upright position and comfortable ride. Budget is >=$1200. Questions are as follows:
> 
> 1: Good? bad? drivetrain... *Good Shimano Tiagra 4500 group.(above Shimano 2300 and Sora)*
> 2: Bike geometry for comfort? *Relaxed frame geometry.*
> 3: How do you think Fuji will stack-up to other BD bike? *Mid-range in the BD bike offerings*
> 4: Any bike suggestions....? *If you want a carbon frame bike, you cannot do better for the price.*
> Thanks in advance.


*Shimano 4500 18 Speed Full Carbon Road Fuji SL 3.0 $999*
Road Bikes - Road - Fuji SL 3.0 Road bikes


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## froze

wakali said:


> Thank you for your advise. The Windsor also caught my eye but I was looking at the Knight. I'm assuming it's the same frmae... Is it worth the $200 for Ultegra parts and nicer wheels? Is the knight going to be comfortable ride, more upright?


Yup and yup. Ultegra for only $200 more is a steal because the groupset itself cost just over $600 more then 105. And yes, the more upright position is more comfy as rides get longer.


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## wakali

Thank you guys for all your inputs. These are really great advise!


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## DoorKicker

FWIW
I just bought the Motobecane Vent Noir from BD. (Can that bike even be purchesed anywhere else?)

Shipping was fast and I had the LBS assemble it. They fit me prior to ordering and I let them know I would most likely be buying from BD because of price. The guy even went online with me and helped me pick it out. Kewl I think, but I have a good relationship with this shop and have spent thousands with them on MTB's. I bought a computer and bottle cages from the LBS and will always get my bikes tuned there.

Anyway, only got 10 miles and one ride on it so far, but couldn't be happier at the moment. I did my first TRI event two weeks ago and used one of my MTB's and will never do that again. That is why I bought the road bike......

I kept going back and forth and cheaper and higher with price and the Motobecane Vent Noir just seemed like the most for the money.

If I were young and single, or atleast had no kids I could spend thousands on a road bike, but those days are long gone...and the kids are too fun anyway.

Good luck


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## coachgeorge

*Also Fuji is no longer Fuji, the company is only a name now.*



froze said:


> Also Fuji is no longer Fuji, the company is only a name now.


Just out of couriosity, why do you say "Also Fuji is no longer Fuji, the company is only a name now."? 
They sell from LBS as well as internet, support an international bike team and make very good bikes.
Granted, they probably aren't owned by the same group that owned them back in the 70's, however they are not like "Motobecane or Windsor", owned by Bikes Direct.
Understand, I am not looking to start anything, just looking to be educated.


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## froze

Fuji is a company is no longer a company, it is decal with the brand name rights owned by Advance Sports. This not uncommon, Centurion, Nishiki, Schwinn and others including Motobecane. Doesn't necessary make them bad bikes though, both Centurion an Nishiki had upper end models that could compete with the best bikes out there. There is another company that people don't realize is another example of this, it's a company that owns the rights to Schwinn called Dorel Industries, this company also owns the rights to the brand name for....Cannondale. All of Dorel bicycle brands are built by Pacific Cycle whom they also own and are known to make all the Big Box discount bikes (Walmart and the such).


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## coachgeorge

I see that they are joined by SE, Kestrel, Oval Concepts & Terry.
Not bad company.
I wonder if these are simply companies that are owned by Advanced with their own facilities or if they are all the same bikes with different stickers on them built in one facility.
I know the frames are from Taiwan.
I have seen that Fuji Frames have shown up on other MFG's bikes outside of the Advanced Stable. 

This is from the Advanced Web Site:
"Advanced Sports International (ASI) is a privately held corporation located in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania with more than 80 distributors in 50 countries. Operating in the U.S. through the specialty bicycle retailer network (SBR), ASI markets a full line of premium bicycles and now high end parts and accessories under the Fuji, Kestrel, SE, Breezer, Terry and Oval brands".

This would indicate that they do not own these brands or labels, they simply market them.


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## froze

coachgeorge said:


> I see that they are joined by SE, Kestrel, Oval Concepts & Terry.
> Not bad company.
> I wonder if these are simply companies that are owned by Advanced with their own facilities or if they are all the same bikes with different stickers on them built in one facility.
> I know the frames are from Taiwan.
> I have seen that Fuji Frames have shown up on other MFG's bikes outside of the Advanced Stable.
> 
> This is from the Advanced Web Site:
> "Advanced Sports International (ASI) is a privately held corporation located in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania with more than 80 distributors in 50 countries. Operating in the U.S. through the specialty bicycle retailer network (SBR), ASI markets a full line of premium bicycles and now high end parts and accessories under the Fuji, Kestrel, SE, Breezer, Terry and Oval brands".
> 
> This would indicate that they do not own these brands or labels, they simply market them.


Some frames are from Taiwan, but the vast majority are from China. No, reread that information, Advance is the marketing company, true, but they own Pacific Cycles, it's Pacific that builds the bikes and the combination owns the these brand labels.


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## coachgeorge

What I found on line:
"With the continued rise of the yen, Fuji fell on hard times in the early 1990s. One of the last Japanese bike companies to shift production to Taiwan after the fall of the dollar, Fuji bicycles cost more in the United States than most competing brands, causing a drop in sales.[4] Fuji bicycles produced in Taiwan were not as well regarded by U.S. buyers as the Japanese-built bicycles.[5] The company eventually designed new models, taking advantage of modern improvements in materials and construction techniques, but this proved insufficient. Toshoku Ltd. filed for bankruptcy in 1997, and in 1998, Nichibei Fuji Cycle Company Ltd., Fuji America's parent company, also declared bankruptcy.

Following bankruptcy, bicycle distribution in the United States was taken over by Advanced Sports. In 1998, Jadeland Pacific, an investment group in Taiwan, acquired 83% of Advanced Sports, which had purchased the assets of Fuji America as well as the worldwide distribution rights to the Fuji bicycle brand.

In 2005, Ideal Bike Corporation, Taiwan's third-largest complete-bicycle maker, acquired 60% of Advanced Sports International Asia, which markets the Fuji brand of bicycles in Asia. Fuji bicycles are now built in Taichung, Taiwan; Dong Guan, Guangdong Province in China; and in Kutno, Poland by Ideal Bike Corporation. The brand is owned, and distributed in the United States, by Advanced Sports in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

Pacific Cycles:
"In December 2000, with new resources from the Wind Point Partners deal, Pacific Cycle acquired the bicycle division of Brunswick Corporation for $60 million, obtaining control of the Mongoose and Roadmaster brands. This also gave Pacific Cycle access to Wal-Mart, who was the second largest retailer of bikes and to whom Brunswick was the largest supplier[6]. Mongoose had maintained a strong reputation for quality and performance, particularly among younger, BMX enthusiasts. Pacific Cycle brought Mongoose into the mass-merchant channel at Wal-Mart[1].

In 2001 Pacific Cycle outbid Huffy Corp. in bankruptcy court for the purchase of the Schwinn/GT Corporation, obtaining control of the Schwinn and GT brands for $86 million[7]. In 2002 Schwinn was introduced to the mass-merchant channel at Wal-Mart, Target and Toys "R" Us[1].

On March 17, 2003 Pacific Cycle acquired InStep L.L.C. for an undisclosed price. InStep is a marketer and distributor of jogging strollers and bicycle trailers. Pacific financed the purchase through company earnings and the price was not disclosed[8].

In 2004 Pacific Cycle was acquired by Dorel Industries from Wind Point Partners for $310 million, acquiring Wind point's 43 percent stake[9]. Under Dorel's Recreational/Leisure product segment, the Pacific Cycle division (PCG internally) deals with the mass merchant and sporting goods channels while the Cycling Sports Group (CSG) division deals specifically with the Independent Bicycle Dealers (IBD) channel[10]. U.S. distribution channels include mass-market retailers such as Wal-Mart, Target, Kmart, Sears and Toys "R" Us as well as sporting goods chains such as Dick's Sporting Goods, Academy Sports, Sports Authority and, Dunham's Sports. Distribution also includes Canadian Tire in Canada.

In 2005 Pacific Cycle started importing electric scooters and marketing them under the Schwinn Motor Scooters name[1]. Sales ceased in approximately 2011.

In June 2008, for $28 million, Pacific Cycle acquired the assets of PTI Sports LLC (Protective Technologies International), a leading U.S. designer, manufacturer and distributer of bicycle parts, helmets and other accessories.[11]

In July 2009, Pacific Cycle acquired the assets of Iron Horse Bicycles and obtained control of the brand.[12]

Dorel:
"In 2004, Dorel became one of the largest marketers of recreational products in North America with its acquisition of Pacific Cycle, a leader in the design, marketing and distribution of inexpensive branded bicycles and other recreational products. In February 2008, Dorel purchased the Cannondale Bicycle Company and SUGOI Performance Apparel, furthering its goal to become a preeminent global bicycle company.

The Recreational/Leisure segment comprises three distinct operating divisions: The Cycling Sports Group (CSG) division which deals specifically with the Independent Bicycle Dealers (IBD) channel; the Pacific Cycle division which deals with the mass merchant and sporting goods channel; and the Apparel Footwear Group (AFG) which incorporates the SUGOI, Cannondale, GT, Schwinn, IronHorse and Mongoose apparel lines.

Dorel markets its Recreational/Leisure products under the Cannondale, Schwinn, GT, Mongoose, IronHorse, SUGOI, Pacific, Dyno, RoadMaster, PowerLite and InSTEP brand names."

From what I can see, Dorel owns Pacific Cycles. Pacific Cycles does not list Fuji as a brand.
Ideal Bike Corporation, from Japan, owns 60% of ASI which owns Fuji USA
Frankly, it is way to complicated. Suffice to say, I like Fuji bikes and have enjoyed them since the 80's. I owned a Cinelli Track bike "fixie" and rode it from 1972 to 1981, when I gave it back to my brother. It was the best bike I have ever rode.
Thanks for the info.
George


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## froze

It is a tad confusing, but regardless who cares? If the bike is a quality bike then who owns it or how it's owned is a non-issue. The Fuji brand still has decent bikes on markets. I too own a Fuji but it was made before the financial troubles, I have a 84 Club, it's a decent bike, it's the lightest all steel bike I own at 20.8 pounds. Yes I weighed it several times including a LBS weigh in, because the specs said 23, not sure where the 2 plus pounds went because it's bone stock except for the tires.


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## Tungty

Hope you have better luck with shipping than I did...


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## flatsix911

Another nice option for those who like Fuji frames :thumbsup:

*Shimano 105 20 Speed Full Carbon Fuji SL-1 Comp LE $1299*

Road Bikes - Road - Fuji SL 1 Road bikes


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## srocc

Rover19, how did you make out with 56 knight. I'm thinking about getting the knight and was wondering if you made the right choice on size. We have similar proportions.


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## Michael Weston

Has anyone commented on this bike? Ultegra bike for $800. Seems cheap although I know a lot of people hate BD.

http://bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/knight_x.htm


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## froze

Michael Weston said:


> Has anyone commented on this bike? Ultegra bike for $800. Seems cheap although I know a lot of people hate BD.
> 
> Road Bikes Shimano Ultegra Road Bikes - Windsor Knight


unknown Windsor Knight Road Bike Reviews

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/mo...r-knight-bikes-direct-245104.html#post3284885

Those are from owners.

By the way, a lot of people do NOT hate BD. The haters always turn out to be LBS workers or owners. If you go even here and look up various models of BD line of bikes that people bought you will find the vast, and by vast I mean 99%, majority of owners love their BD bikes. You may get some people who think you can't get a good fit mail order, but that's nonsense. BD has factory sizes just like any bike you would buy at an LBS; and about 98% of all custom built bikes are mail order without the buyer ever walking in to the shop to get fitted.


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## mk.ultra

I went with the 2013 Motobecane Super Strada to upgrade from a 1980's Raleigh Gran Sport 10-speed steel frame with all Suntour components. The difference should be immense!


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## Fireform

Michael Weston said:


> Has anyone commented on this bike? Ultegra bike for $800. Seems cheap although I know a lot of people hate BD.
> 
> http://bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/knight_x.htm


It's an ultegra bike only in the sense that the shifters and dérailleurs are ultegra. Everything else is a mish mash of lower end componentry.


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## flatsix911

Congrats on the new ride with full SRAM Apex :thumbsup:

Save up to 60% of new Shimano SRAM Apex 20 Speed Road Bikes | 2012 Motobecane Super Strada Road Bikes Sale | Save up to 60% off your next new Road Bike



mk.ultra said:


> I went with the 2013 Motobecane Super Strada to upgrade from a 1980's Raleigh Gran Sport 10-speed steel frame with all Suntour components. The difference should be immense!


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