# Microshift Arsis vs Shimano Ultegra



## arevuar

Which is better? What would you set?


----------



## tihsepa

No comparison. I have tried the Microshi?t and its more like Shimano 2300 than anything.

I ride Ultegra and 105 and its great.


----------



## brblue

*it's all in the*



arevuar said:


> Which is better? What would you set?


cables + housings, drivetrain. If these are good quality, then even Sora will work great.
No I haven't used microshift yet but i've seen how both badly adjusted ultegra 6600 and well adjusted tiagra 4400 work 

Depends on your personal preference if you'll like the external shift cables and ergonomics of the microshift levers.


----------



## Local Hero

Microshift gets a bad rap. But professional riders raced on it last year. 

Team Exergy?s Custom Felt FCs At The Amgen Tour Of California - BikeRadar

It's light and inexpensive. That said, I like prefer cables wrapped under the bars.










If I were on a budget I'd get Sram Rival.


----------



## looigi

Local Hero said:


> ...That said, I like prefer cables wrapped under the bars....


You might think it looks better, but routing the cable under the bar tape adds two relatively sharp 90 degree bends which adds cable drag and increases housing wear which then creases the need for maintenance. And replacing the housings is way more work than with the exposed housing.


----------



## Kerry Irons

looigi said:


> routing the cable under the bar tape adds two relatively sharp 90 degree bends which adds cable drag and increases housing wear which then creases the need for maintenance.


Not with Campy it doesn't


----------



## looigi

Kerry Irons said:


> Not with Campy it doesn't


How not?


----------



## davcruz

I have run Microshift Arsis (Forte carbon) 10 speed shifters for several seasons. I just moved them to wifes bike actually. They still shift just like they did when new, they have always provided smooth, accurate shifting, I like the fact that the brake lever is NOT used as a shifter (like Campy also). They are well made and very cost effective shifters and while they are louder than Shimano shifters for sure, they are not any louder than my 10 speed Campy Chorus shifters.

I have never used Shimano 2300, but I have used every other Shimano group from Sora all the way to Dura Ace and the Arsis shifters work as well as any of them and weigh less. I just put a full Shimano Ultegra 6700 group on in place of the Microshift and I already remember why I don't like the brake lever being a shifter...


----------



## pmt

The Microshift is really, really good. Shifting is dead-on perfect, the levers are not hard to disassemble, clean, lube and re-assemble. The cable pull is only slightly curved so they don't have that "head breaks off in the shifter" problem that Shimano is plagued with.

The motion and clicks don't feel as nice as Dura Ace though. They have a loud clunky click.


----------



## dnice

i bought a pair to replace my 105s, were being swapped onto another bike. after 60 miles i returned them and paid the money for the 105s.


----------



## Jesse D Smith

looigi said:


> You might think it looks better, but routing the cable under the bar tape adds two relatively sharp 90 degree bends which adds cable drag and increases housing wear which then creases the need for maintenance. And replacing the housings is way more work than with the exposed housing.


I'd agree. When Shimano went under the bar cabling for shifting, the most common thing people complained about was sluggish shifting/cable drag. There's no way you can add bends to housing and NOT increase cable drag. They did it for "clean looks" which was a nice way of saying form over function.


----------



## arevuar

As I understand it, the main problem of Microshift Arsis is the design?


----------



## James6b

I've been looking at these for a year now. Almost everyone who's tried it has been very pleased with the only complaint being the noise or heavy switch/click. Most complaints seem to be from the camp that doesn't seem to want to believe. I'll likely pickup some as it seems a good bet for my needs.


----------



## davcruz

arevuar said:


> As I understand it, the main problem of Microshift Arsis is the design?


Where did you get that understanding from? Nothing at all wrong with the design.


----------



## davcruz

dnice said:


> i bought a pair to replace my 105s, were being swapped onto another bike. after 60 miles i returned them and paid the money for the 105s.


Maybe you could explain a bit more about why you returned them? Bit open ended isn't it?


----------



## CAADEL

davcruz said:


> I like the fact that the brake lever is NOT used as a shifter (like Campy also).
> ...
> I just put a full Shimano Ultegra 6700 group on in place of the Microshift and I already remember why I don't like the brake lever being a shifter...


Just curious, why don't you like the dual control shift levers? I find it extremely useful to able to downshift while braking.

I tried SRAM for a couple of times and I hate it I had to stop braking to able to downshift or downshift before braking.


----------



## snidemcbride

Ultegra Di2 and never worry about it again. I've had such a great experience over the last 1500mi on Di2. It simply works every time with precision. No maintenance, auto trimming front derailleur, and completely waterproof. (I ride in the rain a lot and wash my bike) There is no chance of under or over shifting. Try it out before you buy anything. The BMC Roadracer SL01 is all over the internet for $3099 with Di2!


----------



## davcruz

CAADEL said:


> Just curious, why don't you like the dual control shift levers? I find it extremely useful to able to downshift while braking.
> 
> I tried SRAM for a couple of times and I hate it I had to stop braking to able to downshift or downshift before braking.


I just don't really care for the way the lever moves around, never have really. I do like the way the Shimano stuff shifts and how smooth it is, just not the brake lever moving around.


----------



## James6b

I'm going to hazzard a guess that most people considering the line aren't weighing Microshift vs Di2.


----------



## dnice

davcruz said:


> Maybe you could explain a bit more about why you returned them? Bit open ended isn't it?


the shift quality, small to large ring on the crank was poor, requiring long pulls and frequently a couple attempts before engaging. also the ergos when shifting in the drops were a pain.


----------



## demonrider

dnice said:


> the shift quality, small to large ring on the crank was poor, requiring long pulls and frequently a couple attempts before engaging.


And you concluded this after a 60 mile ride? 

I beg to differ; it was most likely a badly tuned setup. From my experience with microshift, the two best qualities of it are reliable and quick shifting, both front and back; even when used by a complete newbie as I was at the time. Otherwise I find the shifter somewhat clunky, the mechanism very loud and hoods kind of ugly looking. But definitely reliable and quick once tuned. 

It also keeps tuned for many months of continuous use. I still have my MS equipped bike, it's currently on the Cyclops fluid trainer and still shifts crisp and quick.


----------



## zone5

demonrider said:


> And you concluded this after a 60 mile ride?
> 
> I beg to differ; it was most likely a badly tuned setup. From my experience with microshift, the two best qualities of it are reliable and quick shifting, both front and back; even when used by a complete newbie as I was at the time. Otherwise I find the shifter somewhat clunky, the mechanism very loud and hoods kind of ugly looking. But definitely reliable and quick once tuned.
> 
> It also keeps tuned for many months of continuous use. I still have my MS equipped bike, it's currently on the Cyclops fluid trainer and still shifts crisp and quick.


Good enough on the trainer. It's probably safer on the trainer than on the road. You made a good decision!


----------



## davcruz

zone5 said:


> Good enough on the trainer. It's probably safer on the trainer than on the road. You made a good decision!


Really....statements like this just really blow my mind. Now Microshift is not safe? Open your mind a bit man!


----------



## James6b

davcruz said:


> Really....statements like this just really blow my mind. Now Microshift is not safe? Open your mind a bit man!


Dollars=Safety...it's a direct correlation.


----------



## dnice

how many miles does one need to ride to determine that ergos are a problem with any component. 100, 200, 1000? i had a selle italia saddle that would make my jewels go numb after 20 miles, switched to a specialized romin--voila no more numbnuts. same for bars: 44cm for me is too wide--i noticed this after 10 miles. 

as for the lengthy pull action on the front crank, i will acknowledge that this is more subjective, although the one review i found on these basically said the same thing. 

"Shifting to the big chainring requires quite a long sweep but it’s not a problem."

Review: Microshift Arsis Carbon 10spd groupset | road.cc | Road cycling news, Bike reviews, Commuting, Leisure riding, Sportives and more


----------



## cs1

> Review: Microshift Arsis Carbon 10spd groupset | road.cc | Road cycling news, Bike reviews, Commuting, Leisure riding, Sportives and more


I've read many of their reviews. They don't pull any punches.


----------



## Herbie

dollars =safety I don't know where you get this. dollar=weight and perhaps faster shifting The only place I have noticed shifting improvement with a more expensive group is dua ace vs 105. Have not noticed in the campy or the Sram line with the groups I have on my bikes


----------



## davcruz

dnice said:


> how many miles does one need to ride to determine that ergos are a problem with any component. 100, 200, 1000? i had a selle italia saddle that would make my jewels go numb after 20 miles, switched to a specialized romin--voila no more numbnuts. same for bars: 44cm for me is too wide--i noticed this after 10 miles.
> 
> as for the lengthy pull action on the front crank, i will acknowledge that this is more subjective, although the one review i found on these basically said the same thing.
> 
> "Shifting to the big chainring requires quite a long sweep but it’s not a problem."
> 
> Review: Microshift Arsis Carbon 10spd groupset | road.cc | Road cycling news, Bike reviews, Commuting, Leisure riding, Sportives and more


I can agree that the front derailleur throw is a tiny bit longer, but I have smaller hands (for a guy my size, 6'2") and the tiny bit more throw was never a problem for me. Up shifting from the drops also took getting used to after using Shimano for a long time, but it really is no more difficult to accomplish in my mind once you get used to the lever location. Certainly it is no more challenging than up shifting with Campy controls from the drops. Both would be a huge change from Shimano.

Hood comfort was the same for me going from 7700 Dura Ace to Microshift 10 speed and now going to 6700 I think the hoods are very similar though the Microshift hoods seem to have a higher durometer i.e.feel harder than the 6700 hoods. Shape is very similar IMO.


----------



## davcruz

Herbie said:


> dollars =safety I don't know where you get this. dollar=weight and perhaps faster shifting The only place I have noticed shifting improvement with a more expensive group is dua ace vs 105. Have not noticed in the campy or the Sram line with the groups I have on my bikes


Herbie, I am fairly confident he was being sarcastic.


----------



## James6b

davcruz said:


> Herbie, I am fairly confident he was being sarcastic.


100%. 

I believe completely than many will never give this line a chance due to that thinking though. I do plan on checking the Arsis out for a budget rebuild of my old Trek aluminum frame. 

I still love the "just buy Di2/$3000 bike comment".


----------



## Herbie

I guess I was in a bad mood. sorry for not picking up on the intent. I'm usually better at reading intent.


----------



## zyzbot

......


----------



## Local Hero

This thread has inspired me to build a microshift rain bike.


----------



## dnice

i have small hands and probably can't use the campy either. i did like the downshift mech however, it was pretty quick.

i would think these would be better in a flat area (like where i'm at now). there's definitely a unique value proposition with the carbon vis a vis tiagra.


----------



## demonrider

dnice said:


> how many miles does one need to ride to determine that ergos are a problem with any component. 100, 200, 1000?


I wasn't referring to the ergonomics, rather the comment about shifting quality and changing between chainrings.


----------



## junior1210

Any more updates with your set ups? I'm looking at microshift as a low cost alternative to the 'Big 3'. I've seen some reviews, but real life experience trumps all.


----------



## Randy99CL

Anyone interested in MicroShift should read this thread: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/components-wrenching/microshift-my-experience-244338.html

My first posts to this forum were toward the end of that thread. It's funny that a troll was giving me crap so they banned him, deleted his posts and locked the thread.

I received my Arsis set about a month ago but because of back problems have only ridden the bike on the trainer to check my installation. They work great and feel better and shift quicker than the 2303 that was on the bike.
But I've never used Ultegra or DA or Campy so can't compare to those.

I really like the double shift levers and fixed brake lever. Work great with my small hands.

Their catalog says that the throw had been shortened by 30% on the latest model.

I bought the Arsis set (top line) with derailleurs for $260. Comes with Jagwire teflon cables too. The fit, finish and function couldn't be better.
They make lighter deraills with carbon-wrapped alloy cages but I didn't care to spend the additional $60 to save an ounce.

I'm just glad that there is less-expensive competition for the big 3. Have you ever looked at a DA or SR lever and wondered how it was worth $300+? I do understand R&D costs but these items are priced at what the market will bear, not actually reflecting what it costs to make them.


----------



## junior1210

I'm with you there. I get that the guys that race and such need precision gear, and more power to them. I don't race and don't plan to, so why would I need to blow $300+ for 1 brifter? Even while looking at Tiagra and 105 gear, it all struck me as a bit much for my needs. I just need gear that works, works consistently, as little wrenching as possible (I can do my own wrenching, but who wants to do any?), and maybe looks decent. I've been researching Microshift the last couple weeks now and the main detractors seem to be that they are a little noisy, and some of the internal parts are plastic. The vast majority of reviews all say that it does work though and that's what matters to me.


----------



## Randy99CL

I just found their brand new catalog: http://www.microshift.com.tw/pdf/microSHIFT 2013-2014.pdf

They now have 11-speed bar-end shifters and have renamed some of the lines.

I bought direct from the US distributor: Best Derailleur - Online Bike Store for Microshift Groupset Cycling Components The owner, Patrick Chen, is in California and the parts came direct from Taiwan within 7 days of my order.
He has a store on fleabay but the prices were higher than on his website when I checked.

I see the prices have gone up a bit to $290 for the Arsis group but shipping is now free. And the same group on amazon is $399, wow.


----------



## demonrider

These prices seem high, to be honest. For around $300 you are getting a pair of brifters, front/rear derailleurs and a set of shift cables. 

For $523CAD, I can order an entire Shimano 105 5700 groupset from Ribble that contains brifters, front/rear derailleurs, shift and brake cables, bottom bracket, crankset, chain, cassette and a pair of brake callipers.


----------



## junior1210

Yes but consider, that's for the top of the line, flagship model, where as 105 is lower middle of the road of the Shimano line. If one part has to be replaced, like brifters, look at the individual part cost. I'm not taking anything away from Shimano, and if you need a whole group set then, yes the cost savings are rather diminished. How often do you replace the whole group set? What about swapping from 9 to 10 speed or upgrading from Sora level? I can't help but believe that this is a viable option for lower cost projects for those of us not in competition but would like to step up a notch.


*Disclaimer - I'm fairly new to road biking and have been wrong before, even on subjects I'm very familiar with, and will likely be wrong again in the future.*


----------



## Randy99CL

demonrider said:


> For $523CAD, I can order an entire Shimano 105 5700 groupset from Ribble that contains brifters, front/rear derailleurs, shift and brake cables, bottom bracket, crankset, chain, cassette and a pair of brake callipers.


Wow, those prices at Ribble are really good, the best I've ever seen. The lowest prices I found for 105 (before I bought the MS) was $210+ for the shifters and a little over $100 for the deraills. That Ribble price is much less than adding up the individual pieces.

Arsis is their top level and the catalog has a "Shimano Reference" linking it to DA. I couldn't make that connection myself because I've never used the top Shimano pieces. There are many more reviews of MS out there and a few have said that they do shift as well as DA but I can't verify that. I imagine that comparison is a stretch but DA costs what, 4x as much?

Two levels down they have their Centos line that they reference to 105. The shifters, both deraills and cables are $200 for the set.

I like consistency between bikes so will buy the Centos 3x10 shifters for the touring bike I'll be building in the near future. I expect the levers alone to cost less than Sora and be under $150.

Obviously, I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy MS. I'm just passing along what I've learned about the components and am helping anyone who wants to consider them.
My budget is really tight so price was a huge consideration for me.

Edit: I want to add that I'm also kind of a renegade and like supporting smaller companies when I can. When I can get a product that works as well as a "name brand" for less money I'm all over it.


----------



## demonrider

The trouble with Microshift (or conversely, the best thing about it) is that their entire lineup is based on a single (solid) design that is then housed in different materials to alter it's weight and hence price. The "equivalence" with Shimano lines is solely based on weight similarities, beyond that, I wouldn't compare any line of Microshift with any Shimano line.

I guess I'm looking at Microshift from the POV of a new bike build, and not as a way to replace worn out Shimano parts for less cost. I have used Microshift exclusively for a year and found is to be a great reliable groupset with it's own unique flavour.


----------



## junior1210

That's good info Demonrider, thanks.

Has anybody seen any info on how well the brake levers work with mechanical discs? I'm weighing the pros and cons of a cyclo-x disc build vs a straight road build. I can put either to good use, and am leaning towards cyclo-x since it can be used both ways with just a swap of tires, and the more relaxed geometry of the frames.


----------



## pmt

junior1210 said:


> Has anybody seen any info on how well the brake levers work with mechanical discs?


Well, since they have the same cable pull as DA7800 et al, then they should work as well as those.


----------



## Randy99CL

demonrider said:


> The trouble with Microshift (or conversely, the best thing about it) is that their entire lineup is based on a single (solid) design that is then housed in different materials to alter it's weight and hence price.


But isn't that also true of the others (except Shimanos' low end)? They use the same basic mechanism with lighter/more expensive materials, better bushings, etc. as you go up the line?

From what I understand, all these companies patent their designs and it can be tough to make something new without stepping on the big 3s' toes.

I'm glad to hear that you like your MS stuff!


----------



## demonrider

Randy99CL said:


> But isn't that also true of the others (except Shimanos' low end)? They use the same basic mechanism with lighter/more expensive materials, better bushings, etc. as you go up the line?


The difference is that Microshift insides are almost (Arsis pulleys are not the same as the others) identical, just the casings are different. With Shimano the different lines use lighter, stronger springs in the derailleurs as you go up from the bottom; shifters are also quite different, the list keeps going.

They don't need to step on anyone's toes. There's no hope for Microshift to compete against the "big 3" head-to-head, so they should keep doing what they are doing and produce very reliable, cost effective drive train solutions based on a very solid design. On top of that they are competitive when it comes to weight. I think they could do more to market themselves, though.


----------



## jlparsons

davcruz said:


> I just don't really care for the way the lever moves around, never have really. I do like the way the Shimano stuff shifts and how smooth it is, just not the brake lever moving around.


I agree. Never got on well with that. Couple of times with wet/gloved/both hands I've grabbed for brake lever to find it move out of my grasp. Much prefer a brake lever that moves in only one direction.


----------

