# Did I make a mistake going with CF?



## cinaibur (Apr 26, 2011)

My first road bike just showed up to my house yesterday. I am an avid XC mountain biker who rides 5-7 days a week who is in fairly good shape. My current weight is slightly higher than I would like but even when my bf gets down to around 13% I'm still around 210lbs. I bought a carbon fiber road bike so that I could train hard and push myself to bettering my mountain biking. I'm starting to wonder after reading around if I made a mistake buying a carbon bike since I weigh so much. Am I going to destroy this thing? I am not heavy in the saddle. I tend to spend a lot of time out of the saddle and avoid potholes like the plague. Am I just worrying or did I really make a mistake?


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

It depends how light and thin the tubes are......like it would with any other frame material.


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## cinaibur (Apr 26, 2011)

17.4lbs and tires are 700x23


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

What bike? Does the manufacturer have a weight limit on the frame?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

The most reliable answer to your question is to go to the source. Contact the manufacturer and ask if there are any weight limits on their CF frames. Specifically your model, because depending on a number of factors their limits may vary by model.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

cinaibur said:


> Am I just worrying or did I really make a mistake?


While there are carbon frames that I would not recommend for a heavier rider, the majority of them are fine for your weight. Check with the maker, as said.

There's a great deal of confusion about carbon durability because carbon is more easily damaged than metal by an _external _force. Examples are a a chain dropping on a chainstay, a sharp-edged object hitting the frame, or overtightening clamps. Because of that sensitivity to external forces, many people will tell you that carbon is "weak" all across the board. Nothing could be further from the truth. If designed and manufactured properly, carbon is extremely strong. Keep things from hitting or scratching your frame and you'll be fine if the frame's weight limit (if there even is one) accomodates your weight.


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## cinaibur (Apr 26, 2011)

Alright. I will check with the manufacturer. Thanks guys.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

You should really consider running 25's or 28's if you can fit them. They'll support your weight much better, will probably roll just as fast or faster and will be much more comfortable for you.


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## cinaibur (Apr 26, 2011)

I have contacted the manufacturer and I am going for a bike fit after work. Hopefully he will be able to shed some light on this situation and perhaps even set me up with some 25's or 28's


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

cinaibur said:


> I have contacted the manufacturer and I am going for a bike fit after work. Hopefully he will be able to shed some light on this situation and perhaps even set me up with some 25's or 28's


Going to a slightly wider tire is a fine idea, but just a FYI... it won't change the weight limits on your frame (if in fact there are any).


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## cinaibur (Apr 26, 2011)

Well the manufacturer said I'm fine. The bike shop said I was cool. Mechanic weights about the same as me and rides 23's so I'm not going to wider tires just yet. I got a nice professional fit today. Went out for my first ride on my first road bike and I snapped the chain causing the rear to jump and get caught in my wheel. Taking back to the shop tomorrow to see how much damage I did. Seems I'm off to a great start...


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

cinaibur said:


> Well the manufacturer said I'm fine. The bike shop said I was cool. Mechanic weights about the same as me and rides 23's so I'm not going to wider tires just yet. I got a nice professional fit today. Went out for my first ride on my first road bike and I snapped the chain causing the rear to jump and get caught in my wheel. Taking back to the shop tomorrow to see how much damage I did. Seems I'm off to a great start...


Glad you're within the manufacturer's weight limits. Most that I've seen top out at around 225 lbs., but better safe than sorry.

Speaking of sorry, tough break with that chain (pun intended). Hopefully there wasn't any damage done to the chainstays in the process.


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## cinaibur (Apr 26, 2011)

Yea. I'm hopeful. Looks like it only bent the replaceable mount. The cage looks fine. We'll see...


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## cinaibur (Apr 26, 2011)

Dropped the bike back off at the store today. Rear derailleur is fine. They are having a hanger shipped over night. Somehow I managed to ravage a ultegra chain within a quarter mile. Might have to replace it too.


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## dgeesaman (Jun 9, 2010)

Ugh, well if in doubt replace it because jammed chains tend to develop sharp spots that can scour away on the cogs and make noise in general. (Ask me how I know )

Once you do find yourself looking at tires, try the 25's. Tires are your suspension, and there is no reason big guys like us have to use the same springs as the lightweight little guys. I prefer the 25's.


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## cinaibur (Apr 26, 2011)

Yea. I felt a similar way about the chain but the shop seems to think it was just a bad link and wants to try fixing it first since I only put about a half mile on the bike so far...


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## cinaibur (Apr 26, 2011)

Yea. I felt a similar way about the chain but the shop seems to think it was just a bad link and wants to try fixing it first since I only put about a half mile on the bike so far...


Also, I bought a groupon for the bike shop that I'm going to use for a nice set of 25's.


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## onespeedbiker (May 28, 2007)

cinaibur said:


> Yea. I felt a similar way about the chain but the shop seems to think it was just a bad link and wants to try fixing it first since I only put about a half mile on the bike so far...


I'm curious what you were doing when you snapped your chain. Chains can hold up under tremendous abuse (combined weight on my tandem is 300lbs with never a breakage), so they usually fail during uphill shifting.


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## cinaibur (Apr 26, 2011)

I literally went about half a mile. I live at the bottom of a hill. Lets say about a 20 degree incline. I was about to crest the hill and had not shifted the bike at all. I heard a click like a loose BB makes on one of my mountain bikes, so I picked my weight out of the saddle a hair so I could see if I could hear another click... and Blamo...


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

cinaibur said:


> I literally went about half a mile. I live at the bottom of a hill. Lets say about a 20 degree incline. I was about to crest the hill and had not shifted the bike at all. I heard a click like a loose BB makes on one of my mountain bikes, so I picked my weight out of the saddle a hair so I could see if I could hear another click... and Blamo...


What brand/ model chain was it, and what type of connector is used? 

The reason I ask is because I'm wondering if the shop reinstalled a connecting pin. If so, chances are you'll never know.


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

When you finally do go to 25's or 28's, you'll wonder why you waited. You'll get less flats, go faster, and be more comfortable.


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## andleo (May 30, 2009)

oops.


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## Look75 (Apr 10, 2011)

cinaibur said:


> My first road bike just showed up to my house yesterday. I am an avid XC mountain biker who rides 5-7 days a week who is in fairly good shape. My current weight is slightly higher than I would like but even when my bf gets down to around 13% I'm still around 210lbs. I bought a carbon fiber road bike so that I could train hard and push myself to bettering my mountain biking. I'm starting to wonder after reading around if I made a mistake buying a carbon bike since I weigh so much. Am I going to destroy this thing? I am not heavy in the saddle. I tend to spend a lot of time out of the saddle and avoid potholes like the plague. Am I just worrying or did I really make a mistake?



Carbon is quirky.

You can jump and bump it all day long and have a great time building confidence. Suddenly, the next day, you ride over a pothole and you frame breaks. The worse part about it, is that it doesn't easily show signs of damage until it's really messed up!


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## dgeesaman (Jun 9, 2010)

Look75 said:


> Carbon is quirky.
> 
> You can jump and bump it all day long and have a great time building confidence. Suddenly, the next day, you ride over a pothole and you frame breaks. The worse part about it, is that it doesn't easily show signs of damage until it's really messed up!


I think very few riders have an experience like this.

David


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

dgeesaman said:


> I think very few riders have an experience like this.
> 
> David


I dunno—all those riders who jump and bump carbon all day long certainly could. But I've got to ask: what's "jumping and bumping" carbon?


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## Look75 (Apr 10, 2011)

wim said:


> I dunno—all those riders who jump and bump carbon all day long certainly could. But I've got to ask: what's "jumping and bumping" carbon?



Some mountain bike frames are made of carbon.


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## Look75 (Apr 10, 2011)

dgeesaman said:


> I think very few riders have an experience like this.
> 
> David



No, because most riders of carbon are very careful about the manner in which they handle their bikes.

Quite a few carbon frame bike riders have some very strange stories to tell about how their frames became damaged. Things happen to them that one knows would not happen to frames of aluminum or steel.

The good news, is that carbon is getting better. I'm certain that after this milestone era of carbon, it will eventually become the best material to use for bicycle frames.

We're NOT there yet! :wink5:


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Look75 said:


> No, because most riders of carbon are very careful about the manner in which they handle their bikes.
> 
> Quite a few carbon frame bike riders have some very strange stories to tell about how their frames became damaged. Things happen to them that one knows would not happen to frames of aluminum or steel.
> 
> ...


For the n+1^th time, shut your hole about how fragile carbon is.

Carbon bikes and wheels ride the cobbles of Paris Roubaix, the dirt and grime of the spring classics, the grand tours, the cold and rainy fall classics....they're crashed, they're abused, dropped...they survive.

Carbon is no more fragile than any other material under normal use. I ride carbon frames and wheels over dirt roads, potholes, gravel, rough roads, rain, sleet, grit...no problems. I've crashed it a couple times, and no problems.

We all get it. Whiskers1/Look75, you have some twisted agenda to promote steel bikes to everyone, even though everyone is not a touring cyclist like you are. Just shut up about how "fragile" carbon is and be happy that you have choices in steel frames.


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## rward325 (Sep 22, 2008)

Look75 said:


> No, because most riders of carbon are very careful about the manner in which they handle their bikes.
> 
> Quite a few carbon frame bike riders have some very strange stories to tell about how their frames became damaged. Things happen to them that one knows would not happen to frames of aluminum or steel.
> 
> ...


I am 5'10" 225 lbs. I ride a Look 586 and a Specialized Roubaix. I ride 4k to 6k miles annually. I have never cracked a frame by riding it! I have ridden on Chip seal, gravel, newly graded road, Over pot holes and many other objects in the road and heard that sound of gun shot as whatever it was hit my frame with no damage. 
The only time I have even seen a carbon frame broken is when a friend of mine dropped his Tarmac and had the top tube hit a metal chair perpendicular to the top tube. It cracked the top tube needless to say. Calfee repaired to as new and you can barely tell where the repair is. 

I think WE ARE THERE with carbon frames. :wink5:


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

Look75 said:


> Carbon is quirky.
> 
> You can jump and bump it all day long and have a great time building confidence. Suddenly, the next day, you ride over a pothole and you frame breaks. The worse part about it, is that it doesn't easily show signs of damage until it's really messed up!


Really? How often does this happen? 

Yes, on rare occation carbon fails, as does every other frame material.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

Look75 said:


> Some mountain bike frames are made of carbon.


Yep, I have one, as well as a carbon road bike. Neither have exploded.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*No You Did Not*

There are a few mistakes here, but they are NOT material based, lets begin shall we?

I am 6' 1.5". I statrted at 310, on a Bianchi MTB and if I recall, it was a Pregrine. Bianchi touted this as the Super Lugged line. I then put slicks on it, and eventually, rode my first century on it. I driopped alot of weight and by the time I git my brand new 1999 Bianchi Brava, I was ~195 ish, and it was also steel, but we call it chromoly so that folks who actually know steel do not cringe, MOVING ON

I have ridden carbon, I have ridden Aluminum. At my best, I probably rode abou 10 to 12 K miles a year. AND GUESS WHAT?

The deal is I will never ever be small. I will never be a mountain goat and look like I broke out of a death camp, I am big, will be, will remain so. BUT I will be under 200, and I will be in decent cycling shape and I will have fun.

SO, howe about this material thing? Well, its pretty much all BS. IF you are built like a linebacker, you do not ride a fram,e that is designed for a tiny guy who MIGHT soaking wet holding a 10lb weight weigh 165. AND you would NOT ride min spoke wheels, with light rims, in short you DO NOT ride a bike designed for tiny people on wheels to make the bike for tiny people to go fast, its stupid, and a waste of time.

HOWEVER, you can go fast, on a bike made of any material as long as the bike is DESIGNED properly. AGAIN, MATERAIL DEBATES ARE BY AND LARGE ALLLL BS. I very much enjoyed the CAAD8 I rode, it was aluminum, it rode great, and lets face it, I did have some beefier wheels put on it. I liked it, alot. BUT WAIT! It was not steel or another BS plush ride material! WHAT HAPPENED?

I figured out that while on the bike, we have these 2 round things called wheels. AND if you have wheels which are designed to be sturdy and take LOTS of weight and shocks, your ride will probably be nice IF THE BIKE FITS.

How about that? A BIKE THAT FITS. It is probably the most important factor. A BIKE THAT FITS. In fact, a bike that fits will feel great. It will NOT matter what the material is. AND I ADDITION TO FIT, is the same said bike designed for you? Did you get the sub 16 pound bike and forget that you are a hulk compared to the avearage road guy, thats really lame and a waste of time. 

SO WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF you do the following:

1)You get a bike that fits
2)You get a bike designed for you, or designed not to be the lightest 
3)Good wheels
4)You train with a goal and get fit

YOU WILL DROP most of the guys who did not follow this advice. You will be faster, you will have fun and you will start undersatnding that people who are proclaimed "material experts" are not. You will get emotional tampons who ride under 1 K a year riding expensive bikes who will barf what they remembered from a bike catalog because they dropped big bucks on a bike that probably does not fit. They are full of crap, should be avoided and then you need to find people who just like to ride. AND YOU WILL know why?

BECAUSE people who like to ride generally ride faster and better and they have fun.

ENJOY YOUR RIDE and be safe


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*Oh Bs*



Look75 said:


> No, because most riders of carbon are very careful about the manner in which they handle their bikes.
> 
> Quite a few carbon frame bike riders have some very strange stories to tell about how their frames became damaged. Things happen to them that one knows would not happen to frames of aluminum or steel.
> 
> ...


Thats lie. Thats a whopper and totally without merit. Most people who ride carbon ride just as nuts as anone else. They are not more cvareful and the club folk who have the best and new carbon frames are jerks who could not hold a paceline to ssave their life much less know how to handle a machine of any material

AND material failure happens to ALL MATERIALS. A badly designed material will fail. Carbon is Carbon. It is not quirky, it is not stiff it is not heterosexual, it is a material which will reflect the design it is used for JUST LIKE ANYTHING ELSE

AND LASTLY are you telling me you ride at the level where you can say its better? Bettr than what?


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## Look75 (Apr 10, 2011)

robdamanii said:


> For the n+1^th time, shut your hole about how fragile carbon is.
> 
> Carbon bikes and wheels ride the cobbles of Paris Roubaix, the dirt and grime of the spring classics, the grand tours, the cold and rainy fall classics....they're crashed, they're abused, dropped...they survive.
> 
> ...



Hi Rob,

You know, it's perfectly fine if you disagree with my opinion concerning the current state of carbon. After all, as an American, I will live and die for that right. As long as we're being intelligent and civil in our discourse, the experience can prove to be both enlightenting and enjoyable.

I consider the directive to* shut my hole *about the subject, as both hostile and uncivil.

Otherwise, the balance of what you've stated here while civil, was incorrect. First of all, carbon fiber frames are not built to be abused. They are impact prohibitive, not impact resistant like steel. Carbon bikes have been known to crack, just from them falling from the wind blowing them over. That's just plain quirky! This simply would not happen to either an aluminum or steel frame. With an aluminum or steel framed bike, both you and your bike can survive, without your worrying about some unseen or undetected frame damage.

Unfortunately, the previously crashed and damaged carbon frame can become a future hazard due to the fact that carbon, often doesn't display its damaged areas.

Imagine an auto mechanic who checks your car, finds a leaky brakeline and a severely cracked axle as he tells you that your car is in great condition. He then forgets to replace your engine oil that he just drained from the pan, as he sends your off on your merry way.
You drive off, feeling confident in your newly reassured vehicle. 

After a crash or any physical mishap with our bikes, the first thing that we do is check for damage. We can visually see damage on an aluminum or steel frame. Many times we can't see it on carbon fiber frames.

Carbon is not as durable as steel. There are many downhill mountain bikers who have broken carbon frames much faster than aluminum or steel.

Carbon fiber technology is getting better. Until we solve the weak spot syndrome and damage verification problem, we won't be were we need to be. Were ever there's an attachment to a carbon fiber frame- That's a weak spot. Sometimes, they come with inherent weak spots via the manufacturer. Weak spots are areas where much less stress can be endured.

Aluminum is fine for certain bicycle applications. It's not good for touring in my opinion because the ride is just too stiff over ten miles or so. Steel and titanium are much more forgiving. Aluminum is ok for mountain biking too. Just expect to replace the aluminum bike frame more often than a steel framed bike.

That's just my opinion....

As an Amercan, I'm free to have one! :23: 

Have A Nice Day! :smile5:


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Look75 said:


> Hi Rob,
> 
> You know, it's perfectly fine if you disagree with my opinion concerning the current state of carbon. After all, as an American, I will live and die for that right. As long as we're being intelligent and civil in our discourse, the experience can prove to be both enlightenting and enjoyable.
> 
> ...


Your opinion is wrong. Period. And you're just not bright enough to figure that out, so let's spell it out one more time.

Aluminum and carbon are fine materials for any bike application. Carbon does not fail as often as you proclaim it, no matter how many times you yell it from the rooftops. Case in point: Tour riders crash bikes on descents, sprints, curbs, other riders...many times they pick up the bike and ride off. Very rarely do those frames ever crack in half (although hitting a traffic island certainly has provided some awesome spectacle) and very rarely is there any damage beyond a naffed up wheel or twisted up shifter lever.

These bikes have been tested and ridden under the worst conditions, by the best and strongest riders that the sport has to offer. Almost every single manufacturer in the business has put their pedigree on a carbon frame, backed it with a warranty and is willing to put their reputation on the line for it. Those companies are a hell of a lot smarter than you will ever be when it comes to frame design and materials science, and if they're willing to stake their multi-million dollar business life on it, you'd better believe they have figured out what can go wrong with carbon.

Get off your high horse. Your steel bike is fine for what you do, and it's obvious you have some kind of hidden agenda here, otherwise you would have wandered off to find another bridge to reside under. You've continuously proven that you're as sharp as a rubber ball, between claiming aluminum is dangerous for mountain bikes, the bike manfacturers are pushing aluminum and carbon solely to make more money, carbon will kill you, and a Trek hybrid is no different than a mid 80's steel racing frame.  You've shown you have no concept of how to research anything, you continuously ignore the excellent information posted by multiple well respected users on these forums, and you rely on a single outdated article by a "master frame builder" who can't even spell molybdenum and builds recumbent trikes for a living.


You're right. This is America, and you're an American (or Amercan, as you eloquently put it.) You're entitled to your opinion. I'm also entitled to point out when that opinion is not only wrong, but stupidly so. Get a grip, bud. Pull your head out of your sphincter, take off your tinfoil hat and join the land of common sense, if you can.


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## Look75 (Apr 10, 2011)

robdamanii said:


> Your opinion is wrong. Period. And you're just not bright enough to figure that out, so let's spell it out one more time.
> 
> Aluminum and carbon are fine materials for any bike application. Carbon does not fail as often as you proclaim it, no matter how many times you yell it from the rooftops. Case in point: Tour riders crash bikes on descents, sprints, curbs, other riders...many times they pick up the bike and ride off. Very rarely do those frames ever crack in half (although hitting a traffic island certainly has provided some awesome spectacle) and very rarely is there any damage beyond a naffed up wheel or twisted up shifter lever.
> 
> ...


 Rob,

You continuously hurl insults and now you're highlighting a typo just to further insult a fellow RBR member. " The statement of* " Pull your head out of your sphincter"*, was absolutely insulting and uncalled for within this civil decorum. At this time, once again, I ask you to stop.

This type of behavior is warned against by RBR administrators

Moving On.....

It is a widely known fact that where attachments are made to carbon frames, special precautions have to be taken or else breakage will occur. 
Of course carbon is very strong, but it does have its weak spots (as already stated repeatedly). However, it will never match the strength of steel or the fatigue threshold of steel (while in its current state of technological production).

Professional riders are paid to promote cycling and bicycle industrialists. They are exciting to watch and are given the best of materials to feature in various events. However, let's not forget the many mechanical failures of carbon experienced by professional cyclists. 

When you state that I once said that Aluminum is Dangerous to mountain bikers, that's a boldfaced lie. I've never stated that aluminum was dangerous to mountain bikers. I said that about quirky carbon, not aluminum. Get your facts straight! 

-AND YES!

Carbon will kill you, if you're downhill mountain biking on a carbon frame where previous damage has gone undetected. Nobody in there right mind wants to do that! Every mountain biker is aware of this potentially happening. They just love the sport, go with their instincts and by visual inspection. Mountain bikes require much care and attention. Sometimes things that should be attended, are missed due to carbon's uncanny ability to shield its defects.
- THIS IS DANGEROUS!

IMHO the only application for carbon bike frames is racing! Nothing can beat it there!
Aluminum is also great in racing. Aluminum is also a fair material within most other apllications of cycling. However, I do feel as though the cycling market has been supersaturated with aluminum for the purpose of profit margin expansion. The same could be said of carbon. Both materials are highly over priced!

Have A Nice Day! :smile5:


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Look75 said:


> Rob,
> 
> You continuously hurl insults and now you're highlighting a typo just to further insult a fellow RBR member. " The statement of* " Pull your head out of your sphincter"*, was absolutely insulting and uncalled for within this civil decorum. At this time, once again, I ask you to stop.
> 
> ...


You either don't listen or you can't figure it out:

Carbon is not fragile. Period. This is proven by the hundreds of thousands of carbon frames on the road and trail today, with absolutely no problem. Even statistics is proving you're foolish, and that's a sad, sad thing to happen. Fatigue threshold blah blah blah....most people upgrade their frames/bikes well before they reach any fatigue limit because they want the latest and greatest...and those bikes go on second hand for years and years. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: take off your tinfoil hat. What you "feel" and what is reality are two different things. Aluminum is used because it is a more desirable material than cheap steel. Both it and carbon are more than adequate for any application.

You keep telling people that you didn't disparage any material but steel. Keep telling people that you claimed there was no difference between a hybrid and a road bike (they have the same angles, right?) Keep changing your story, maybe eventually someone will respect your asinine opinion.

One more time, since you need reinforcement: CARBON IS NOT FRAGILE. END OF DISCUSSION.


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## rward325 (Sep 22, 2008)

Look75

You continue to make references to MTB and CF. Last time I checked we were talking about Road bikes here. Go troll at MTBR if you want to bad mouth carbon fiber. I Ride Steel(Pegoretti), I ride Aluminum(Giant) and ride CF(Specialized and Look). None of them have broken in theyears i have been riding. I have crashed riding all of them and the frames have survived. If you want to discuss carbon fiber Mountain bikes breaking go somewhere else and do it. There are forums specifically for that and this isn't it.


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## Look75 (Apr 10, 2011)

rward325 said:


> I am 5'10" 225 lbs. I ride a Look 586 and a Specialized Roubaix. I ride 4k to 6k miles annually. I have never cracked a frame by riding it! I have ridden on Chip seal, gravel, newly graded road, Over pot holes and many other objects in the road and heard that sound of gun shot as whatever it was hit my frame with no damage.
> The only time I have even seen a carbon frame broken is when a friend of mine dropped his Tarmac and had the top tube hit a metal chair perpendicular to the top tube. It cracked the top tube needless to say. Calfee repaired to as new and you can barely tell where the repair is.
> 
> I think WE ARE THERE with carbon frames. :wink5:



Hey there Rward325,

Actually, your example is exactly my case in point. Your friend's carbon framed bike fell and its top tube hit sideways unto a metal chair. The top tube cracked, "needless to say" you said. 

Well that's exactly my point. It shouldn't be assumed and "needless to say", that the top tube cracked. A steel or aluminum tube would not have cracked, simply from dropping or falling. I've heard this story so many times before.

It's quite strange and kinda quirky to me, that your friend could have ridden that bike all day over bumps, potholes, and short curbs, without any damage at all. He could return home, have the wind blow his bike over, and then he loses the use of his bike due to a "catastrophic" event.
The wind blowing your bike over or merely dropping your bike should not be categorized as a "catastrophic" event. Dropping ones bike or mistakingly allowing it to drop, is NOT a catastrophe.

Carbon fiber technology is improving at a very rapid rate. There's no doubt that it will someday become Kingpin of all frames. :thumbsup: 

Are we there yet? 

Based upon the responses here, apparently some people think we are. I tend to doubt it. 

Only time will tell...............


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## Look75 (Apr 10, 2011)

robdamanii said:


> You either don't listen or you can't figure it out:
> 
> Carbon is not fragile. Period. This is proven by the hundreds of thousands of carbon frames on the road and trail today, with absolutely no problem. Even statistics is proving you're foolish, and that's a sad, sad thing to happen. Fatigue threshold blah blah blah....most people upgrade their frames/bikes well before they reach any fatigue limit because they want the latest and greatest...and those bikes go on second hand for years and years.
> 
> ...



I never said that carbon is fragile. I said that carbon is quirky. This fact has been true for decades. Though it appears to be less in occurence now than in earlier years. Apparently, carbon bike frames can be immensely strong for the most part, but then there's some area (usually where there's an attachment), where there's a weak spot. That does not mean that the entire frame is fragile. It just has fragile points! 

PS.

Carbon frames have a history of not being able to withstand tubular impact!


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

Look75 is wrong, and doesnt know anything about carbon fiber.

Lets move on?


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## Look75 (Apr 10, 2011)

TomH said:


> Look75 is wrong, and doesnt know anything about carbon fiber.
> 
> Lets move on?



Hello TomH,

So we all know that carbon fiber had an awful debut with its introduction to the cycle world. There were frequent reports of cracked frames and forks. I'll admit that there have been great improvements made with carbon fibers within just the past decade. However, do we really know that technology has guided us out of the woods with carbon fiber?

At what point did the bicycle industry broadcast this monumental epouch in time?

Surely with all of the money poured into technological research and development, some bicycle manufacturer would boldly proclaim:

"Gone are the reports of weak spots in carbon frames! Gone are the rumors about carbon frame explosions! With our new technology, we now have the carbon matrix that dispels these reports for good!"

This has not happened because, the industry still suffers from these experiences. To what extent, we don't know. However, there are enough warnings and precautions sent with every carbon fiber frame sent to every online purchaser concerning "catastrophic failure" because of this ominous history of weak spots inherent in carbon fiber bicycle frames.

Hey! Don't listen to me. Listen to others:

www.bustedcarbon.com

www.bustedcarbon.com/2008/10/broken-frame.html

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2010/10/matt-appleman-on-carbon-fiber.html

www.rideyourbike.com/carbonfiber.html


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Look75 said:


> I never said that carbon is fragile. I said that carbon is quirky. This fact has been true for decades. Though it appears to be less in occurence now than in earlier years. Apparently, carbon bike frames can be immensely strong for the most part, but then there's some area (usually where there's an attachment), where there's a weak spot. That does not mean that the entire frame is fragile. It just has fragile points!
> 
> PS.
> 
> Carbon frames have a history of not being able to withstand tubular impact!


You really are a dense specimen, and a troll of the worst caliber...

Go find another bridge to lurk under.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Look75 said:


> Hello TomH,
> 
> So we all know that carbon fiber had an awful debut with its introduction to the cycle world. There were frequent reports of cracked frames and forks. I'll admit that there have been great improvements made with carbon fibers within just the past decade. However, do we really know that technology has guided us out of the woods with carbon fiber?
> 
> ...


One web site and one warning? That's all you've got?

Face the fact: the industry still experiences frame failures in all materials: carbon, aluminum, steel, titanium, bamboo...they all fail. You don't hear the rest of us stupidly maligning every material out there because we have a grudge against it do we? We only malign people like you who A) refuse to listen to reason B) refuse to listen to those who are far more intelligent and C) refuse to do a little research.

In short: you're wrong. Still. Go away and troll somewhere else.


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## Look75 (Apr 10, 2011)

robdamanii said:


> One web site and one warning? That's all you've got?
> 
> Face the fact: the industry still experiences frame failures in all materials: carbon, aluminum, steel, titanium, bamboo...they all fail. You don't hear the rest of us stupidly maligning every material out there because we have a grudge against it do we? We only malign people like you who A) refuse to listen to reason B) refuse to listen to those who are far more intelligent and C) refuse to do a little research.
> 
> In short: you're wrong. Still. Go away and troll somewhere else.



Hi there Rob,

I know Rob, the truth about carbon fibers is a painful reminder that we are only human and nothing that we can ever produce will be perfect. However, the genius about us as humans, is that we always have the potential to strive and do better. That's what technology is all about! Eventually, we will find the ultimate solution to the carbon fiber problem with bikes, just like we will find the cure for AIDS, Cancer, and the many other ills that plague society.

Have A Nice Day! :smile5: 

PS.

There's A Very Thin Line Between Love and Hate....


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Look75 said:


> Hi there Rob,
> 
> I know Rob, the truth about carbon fibers is a painful reminder that we are human and nothing that we can ever produce will be perfect. However, the genius about us as humans, is that we always have the potential to strive and do better. That's what technology is all about! Eventually, we will find the ultimate solution to the carbon fiber problem with bikes, just like we will find the cure for AIDS, Cancer, and many other ills that plague society.
> 
> ...


You're right. I love my carbon bike with full carbon tubulars, carbon bars, carbon stem, carbon saddle, carbon seatpost and carbon shifters.

I hate people like you who are clueless and don't bother to listen. Although I do love it when people like you crash your precious steel garbage and destroy it. Then I get to laugh at your foolishness.

Go troll somewhere else.


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## Look75 (Apr 10, 2011)

robdamanii said:


> You're right. I love my carbon bike with full carbon tubulars, carbon bars, carbon stem, carbon saddle, carbon seatpost and carbon shifters.
> 
> I hate people like you who are clueless and don't bother to listen. Although I do love it when people like you crash your precious steel garbage and destroy it. Then I get to laugh at your foolishness.
> 
> Go troll somewhere else.


 Hi there Rob,

My only hope is to find the truth about the bicycle industry and to shed light upon that truth, so that we can behave as a more enlightened, unified, and wiser consumer, as cyclists.

I have no latent agendas.

I am hoping that one day we will converse under the e-olive branch...

I really don't think you're that sinister and hateful of a person. :thumbsup:


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Look75 said:


> Hi there Rob,
> 
> My only hope is to find the truth about the bicycle industry and to shed light upon that truth, so that we can behave as a more enlightened, unified, and wiser consumer, as cyclists.
> 
> ...


Listen boy, I'm not you're woman, so you're not going to pull that "I have to be right" crap with me. 

You're so full of crap your eyes are brown. The bike industry is not out to get you, me or anyone else. 

You're not behaving in an enlightened, wise way. You're behaving like a petulant child who isn't getting his way because you've been consistently proven wrong.

After your misogynistic comments in your other thread, you'll be making acquaintances with my ignore list. I don't need to read garbage from the likes of you.


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## Look75 (Apr 10, 2011)

robdamanii said:


> Listen boy, I'm not you're woman, so you're not going to pull that "I have to be right" crap with me.
> 
> You're so full of crap your eyes are brown. The bike industry is not out to get you, me or anyone else.
> 
> ...


 How sad? And I thought we were going to be friends....


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

Look75 said:


> How sad? And I thought we were going to be friends....


Name one RBR member that would consider you a friend.


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## Look75 (Apr 10, 2011)

Kontact said:


> Name one RBR member that would consider you a friend.



* I got one even better...YOU name an RBR member, who would consider YOU a friend!!!*


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

Look75 said:


> * I got one even better...YOU name an RBR member, who would consider YOU a friend!!!*


Off the top of my head: Mike T., Creakyknees.The several people who thanked me quashing the nonsense you post in your various guises.

The point being, you've done nothing but annoy everyone you've come in contact with here. Congrats.


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