# Froome



## AdamM

Not intending to discuss theories about why, that's probably better hashed out on another forum, but can anyone remember a ProTour rider showing such a dramatic improvement in the span of a couple years? 

Ok junior results, but nothing major - resume about what you'd expect from guys on conti teams, pack fodder ProTour, goes to the Vuelta 2011 as a water carrier. Now out climbs the best Spanish climbing specialists, comes a few ticks away from beating the most powerful rouleur in the TDF in an big watt TT. Can anyone remember another rider that's shown such improvement in a short time? I can't.


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## Local Hero

In before the move.


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## Creakyknees

it's the high cadence.


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## jsedlak

This will get it towed quickly, but Lance Armstrong.


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## LostViking

I refuse to be drawn in by negativity - Froome is just a great natural talent!


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## MTBer1st

I think its the oval chainrings.


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## culdeus

I thought it was the extended warm downs


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## DonDenver

MTBer1st said:


> I think its the oval chainrings.


^this (and a clever way to mute the inference in the OP)

Wondering however; what, when and how UCI will get involved with the oval akin to golf mucking with the long putter and "anchoring" advantage.


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## Salsa_Lover

I'm sorry that you can't dream big. I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles


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## asciibaron

"Spanish Beef has been a part of my diet, you should try some tonight"


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## AJL

It's the psychological conditioning and training at high altitude. Hmm, didn't Floyd Landis go from domestique to (ex) Tour winner?


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## spookyload

View attachment 283898


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## AdamM

Just to follow up, if we set aside the why and how, most top riders that everyone can follow as they come up the ranks - even Armstrong you could say showed to be an exceptional talent in tri's at a young age, then proved to be a winning masher style rider early on - others like Evans, Contador, Tee Jay and say Porte have long history of winning results up the ladder. Froome's performance so far is as dominating as I've ever seen in a stage race and if he can keep this up may be as good of grand tour racer as we'll ever see in our lifetimes. I just can't think of another instance where in a year and half a guy goes from relative obscurity to the best in the world?


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## sdeeer

Froome is like Vroom...

With a name like that, you have to go fast! He has a 'big engine'


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## robdamanii

Marginal gains.


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## JasonB176

It's all about the bike.


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## ColoradoMike

AdamM said:


> Not intending to discuss theories about why, that's probably better hashed out on another forum, but can anyone remember a ProTour rider showing such a dramatic improvement in the span of a couple years?
> 
> Ok junior results, but nothing major - resume about what you'd expect from guys on conti teams, pack fodder ProTour, goes to the Vuelta 2011 as a water carrier. Now out climbs the best Spanish climbing specialists, comes a few ticks away from beating the most powerful rouleur in the TDF in an big watt TT. Can anyone remember another rider that's shown such improvement in a short time? I can't.


I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking the same thing. Froome's domination of the entire field reminds me of Landis. I almost felt like Team Sky and Froome purposely slowed at the end of the TT to try and not stir up this kind of controversy. 



Creakyknees said:


> it's the high cadence.


Yeah that's what they always said about Lance and we know how that went...


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## r1lee

professional cycling is for entertainment, if you just keep it at that it's fun to watch.

The whole Peloton is doped to the gills...


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## Marc

It's the fishnet jerseys


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## gofast2wheeler

Watching last years Tour, Froome should have won over Wiggins if he was unleashed. Except for TT last year Froome was definitely better in the mountains. I am sure he is being tested constantly. Personally I would not insult the efforts and sacrifices he has made to get to this point. He is just a good all round rider on one of the best funded teams that pulls all the stops for the competitive edge come race day.


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## Ventruck

it must be the bike


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## tlg

Marc said:


> It's the fishnet jerseys


I'm on with this. It's gotta be. No other equipment has really changed since last year. But mesh... sheesh, that's like 1/2 the weight! 
I'm getting out the hole punch tonight and mesh-er-izing my jersey's.



gofast2wheeler said:


> I am sure he is being tested constantly.


Wasn't Armstrong? Just say'n.


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## AdamM

I can't remember anyone prior to last year even mentioning Froome as a potential contender for anything. If some cycling journo had him on a list as a future TDF winner even two years ago it would be remarkable. Now he's on track to dominate the TDF, without even being much more than a footnote prior to the 2011 Vuelta. Interesting stuff.


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## stevesbike

Actually, I think his development is entirely predictable - he didn't grow up in a country rich in cycliing and didn't really make the transition to full-time racing until 2008 (in 2007 he still was attending university part time). 

2007 - he wins a stage of Giro delle Regioni, a U23 event that was won by Rui Costa. On stage 5, Froome drops Cyril Gautier, who was a top young French rider and soloes in to win. That was a sign to everyone that there was something there - it certainly impressed the reporters covering it.

2008. He turns pro full time, rides a heavy spring campaign then the Tour. On stage 17, the Queen stage, he makes the cut in a small select group (after many top GC contenders get dropped) and is in select climbing company: results over the second last climb of the stage:

Col de la Croix de Fer (HC), 156.0 km
1 Peter Velits (Svk) Team Milram 20 pts
2 Bernhard Kohl (Aut) Gerolsteiner 18
3 Kurt-Asle Arvesen (Nor) Team CSC - Saxo Bank 16
4 Andy Schleck (Lux) Team CSC - Saxo Bank 14
5 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Team Garmin-Chipotle p/b H30 12
6 Frank Schleck (Lux) Team CSC - Saxo Bank 10
7 Christopher Froome (Ken) Barloworld 8
8 David Moncoutié (Fra) Cofidis - Le Crédit par Téléphone 7
9 Kim Kirchen (Lux) Team Columbia 6
10 Carlos Sastre Candil (Spa) Team CSC - Saxo Bank 

He cracks on Alpe D'huez (reports he did not eat enough) but ends up 31st. 

So, a guy who as a neo-pro on a small team with an unusual background shows some flashes of promise. Put him on a top team, develop him properly (figure out the bilharzia ) etc. 

It seems unreasonable to suppose he'd have the typical trajectory of someone from France or even the US, who comes up through the normal ranks.


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## bballr4567

stevesbike said:


> Actually, I think his development is entirely predictable - he didn't grow up in a country rich in cycliing and didn't really make the transition to full-time racing until 2008 (in 2007 he still was attending university part time).
> 
> 2007 - he wins a stage of Giro delle Regioni, a U23 event that was won by Rui Costa. On stage 5, Froome drops Cyril Gautier, who was a top young French rider and soloes in to win. That was a sign to everyone that there was something there - it certainly impressed the reporters covering it.
> 
> 2008. He turns pro full time, rides a heavy spring campaign then the Tour. On stage 17, the Queen stage, he makes the cut in a small select group (after many top GC contenders get dropped) and is in select climbing company: results over the second last climb of the stage:
> 
> Col de la Croix de Fer (HC), 156.0 km
> 1 Peter Velits (Svk) Team Milram 20 pts
> 2 Bernhard Kohl (Aut) Gerolsteiner 18
> 3 Kurt-Asle Arvesen (Nor) Team CSC - Saxo Bank 16
> 4 Andy Schleck (Lux) Team CSC - Saxo Bank 14
> 5 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Team Garmin-Chipotle p/b H30 12
> 6 Frank Schleck (Lux) Team CSC - Saxo Bank 10
> 7 Christopher Froome (Ken) Barloworld 8
> 8 David Moncoutié (Fra) Cofidis - Le Crédit par Téléphone 7
> 9 Kim Kirchen (Lux) Team Columbia 6
> 10 Carlos Sastre Candil (Spa) Team CSC - Saxo Bank
> 
> He cracks on Alpe D'huez (reports he did not eat enough) but ends up 31st.
> 
> So, a guy who as a neo-pro on a small team with an unusual background shows some flashes of promise. Put him on a top team, develop him properly (figure out the bilharzia ) etc.
> 
> It seems unreasonable to suppose he'd have the typical trajectory of someone from France or even the US, who comes up through the normal ranks.


Great digging for sure!


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## foto

Old people winning races? They must be doping! Look at their history!

Young people winning races? They must be doping! They came out of nowhere!

Rider showing consistent form year after year? Not natural!

Rider showing consistent improvement year after year? Can't be done without juice!

Rider declining? Must be scared of getting busted!

seriously do you guys even ride?


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## foto

Personally, I can't wait for Quintana to become a team leader.


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## regnaD kciN

Salsa_Lover said:


> I'm sorry that you can't dream big. I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles


Foul! I already used that quote in a previous Froome thread yesterday.


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## Rekless1

I heard he switched to ultra light skewers.


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## Cableguy

I think a lot of people who are defending Froome are focused more on the fact he's winning... it's not the fact that he's winning. It's *how* he's winning... and he's winning by leaps and bounds. For example last year in the stage 19 TT, he and Wiggins finished a 1 minute+ ahead of *everyone* else... then you have everyone else behind them seconds apart. And this pattern repeats, a lot.


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## 55x11

Oh yes, stage 5 of Giro delle Regioni the much anticipated battle against famous Cyril Gautier. It was EPIC!
I am sure everyone remembers that! 

From past experience, anyone who can win stage 5 of Giro delle Regioni, especially against someone as good as Cyril Gautier, typically goes on to dominate the Tour De France 5 years later.


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## atpjunkie

bballr4567 said:


> Great digging for sure!


and don't forget his super dom performance at the vuelta where he most likely could have won


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## spookyload

AdamM said:


> Just to follow up, if we set aside the why and how, most top riders that everyone can follow as they come up the ranks - even Armstrong you could say showed to be an exceptional talent in tri's at a young age, then proved to be a winning masher style rider early on - others like Evans, Contador, Tee Jay and say Porte have long history of winning results up the ladder. Froome's performance so far is as dominating as I've ever seen in a stage race and if he can keep this up may be as good of grand tour racer as we'll ever see in our lifetimes. I just can't think of another instance where in a year and half a guy goes from relative obscurity to the best in the world?


Not sure Porte really has a history of winning. He could win local races in Australia till 2009 sometimes if it was flat. 10th at Tour of Langkawi isn't exactly strong results. He moves to Saxo Bank in 2009 and makes a huge improvement in climbing in less than a year as Saxo and the rest of the peloton were drug riddled. 2012 he moves to Sky and becomes a climbing monster and over night success. From marginal dometique to super climber domestique. Whatever Froome is on you will find Porte on too. Same for Uran and every other super star they have pumped out. Mick Rogers was a leadout man for god sakes. He goes to Sky and out climbs Evans the same year at the Tour. He is off sky and is back to mediocre again. Hmm.


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## regnaD kciN

This article is well worth reading:

http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/biking/Analysing-Froomes-Performance.html


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## stevesbike

guess you've never heard of context. 



55x11 said:


> Oh yes, stage 5 of Giro delle Regioni the much anticipated battle against famous Cyril Gautier. It was EPIC!
> I am sure everyone remembers that!
> 
> From past experience, anyone who can win stage 5 of Giro delle Regioni, especially against someone as good as Cyril Gautier, typically goes on to dominate the Tour De France 5 years later.


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## grandprix

stevesbike said:


> Actually, I think his development is entirely predictable ...
> 
> So, a guy who as a neo-pro on a small team with an unusual background shows some flashes of promise. Put him on a top team, develop him properly (figure out the bilharzia ) etc.


What is often lost in the hysteria over doping is the actual difference it makes. I don't think anyone would disagree that Froome is a talented rider, I tried to make that point in a thread about his ITT performance.

But he made a rather dramatic improvement exactly after he joined Sky. He went from contending in smaller races or individual climbs, as you list, to dominating the premier grand tour in the sport. I contend that he would have done this last year if his team had given him a green light. 

I don't find the difference to be credibly associated with a top team having access to better bikes or legal training methods. I might believe that money spent on wind tunnel testing would turn a prospect into a winner in TT but I don't buy there being any difficult to employ or expensive method that will do that same thing for climbing. There are teams contending in smaller races that can't even afford enough trainers to warm up their whole team, and they aren't getting crushed by well financed teams who are just hiring better coaches. 

Financing a broad doping program is quite expensive, if the financial revelations about Armstrong/Ferrari are accurate. That isn't even a full view, just the logistics of concealing and transporting blood and drugs is enough to put it out of reach for smaller operations, at least on a team wide scale. 

That isn't to say that smaller teams don't dope, just that they don't do it as comprehensively or as well. Ricardo Riccó and Vancansoleil for example. 

So I think in Froome we are seeing a very talented rider who happens to respond abnormally well to PEDs who is riding for a team that can afford to manage a broad PED program. Similar for Porte and Wiggins and several other of their tour squad. Every explanation for his performance so far offered is exactly along the lines of past excuses for past transformations that was later proven to be, at best, just another minor factor behind doping.


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## tkjohnson21

That was an interesting article, definitely makes you think twice about him being "clean"


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## phoehn9111

Anyone else notice the way he constantly rolls his head up and back?
This is part of a self-hypnosis cycle that constantly updates and blocks
a contiguous experience of discomfort, i.e., making it possible to extend
the endurance platform.


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## aclinjury

regnaD kciN said:


> This article is well worth reading:
> 
> Can we Trust the Peloton? | Biking Fitness Plans and Advice | OutsideOnline.com


Good read!


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## aclinjury

First of all I'm going to say that Froome is at the very mininum "suspusicous".
The article above did a great job with the numbers.
And many of you already chime in, and I'm sure if anyone has frequented the Doping Forum, you're probably be suspicious too. A lot of this has been discussed, over and over.

But just going by my personal experience in sport, no doubt in my mind that he's taking PEDs. I've been involved in track and field since 7th grade, thru highschool, then through college. Although I was never at division I collge level, but I know a little bit about the progression of human performance. Usually when an athlete is "naturally gifted", he shows talents very early on, for guys it's around the junior years about 14-15 years old, then then he'll improve quickly through highschool. By early twenties, he's already knocking on top pros, and by mid-20, he become one of the tops of top pros. But the improvement would at some point level out around 25ish, and then even starts to decline; you'd be lucky to hold a high platuea. 

I see this a lot in college track, swiming, basketball, and football. Though I didn't play those sports, but I followed them in college. Soccer is another area that this also holds true. Simply put, when there is natural talent, it comes early in the junior years, and then continues to pile on fast until early 20s, then probably peak around mid- to late 20s. This is the case for many sports requiring stamina and power. 

But in cycling, the "talents" seem to not follow this pattern of human physiology. Why are there so many cases of "cyling talents" developing suddenly and dramatically at a later age,, but showed almost no talent indicative of the latter years when they were juniors? This is the suspicous part. Why weren't we seeing talents piling on when they were younger? You put this fact with the fact that cycling is a dirty sport,.. well... I'll just let the believers believe in miracles. I ain't.


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## LostViking

aclinjury said:


> First of all I'm going to say that Froome is at the very mininum "suspusicous".
> The article above did a great job with the numbers.
> And many of you already chime in, and I'm sure if anyone has frequented the Doping Forum, you're probably be suspicious too. A lot of this has been discussed, over and over.
> 
> But just going by my personal experience in sport, no doubt in my mind that he's taking PEDs. I've been involved in track and field since 7th grade, thru highschool, then through college. Although I was never at division I collge level, but I know a little bit about the progression of human performance. Usually when an athlete is "naturally gifted", he shows talents very early on, for guys it's around the junior years about 14-15 years old, then then he'll improve quickly through highschool. By early twenties, he's already knocking on top pros, and by mid-20, he become one of the tops of top pros. But the improvement would at some point level out around 25ish, and then even starts to decline; you'd be lucky to hold a high platuea.
> 
> I see this a lot in college track, swiming, basketball, and football. Though I didn't play those sports, but I followed them in college. Soccer is another area that this also holds true. Simply put, when there is natural talent, it comes early in the junior years, and then continues to pile on fast until early 20s, then probably peak around mid- to late 20s. This is the case for many sports requiring stamina and power.
> 
> But in cycling, the "talents" seem to not follow this pattern of human physiology. Why are there so many cases of "cyling talents" developing suddenly and dramatically at a later age,, but showed almost no talent indicative of the latter years when they were juniors? This is the suspicous part. Why weren't we seeing talents piling on when they were younger? You put this fact with the fact that cycling is a dirty sport,.. well... I'll just let the believers believe in miracles. I ain't.


Agreed...and surprized this thread has not been moved!


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## bballr4567

aclinjury said:


> First of all I'm going to say that Froome is at the very mininum "suspusicous".
> The article above did a great job with the numbers.
> And many of you already chime in, and I'm sure if anyone has frequented the Doping Forum, you're probably be suspicious too. A lot of this has been discussed, over and over.
> 
> But just going by my personal experience in sport, no doubt in my mind that he's taking PEDs. I've been involved in track and field since 7th grade, thru highschool, then through college. Although I was never at division I collge level, but I know a little bit about the progression of human performance. Usually when an athlete is "naturally gifted", he shows talents very early on, for guys it's around the junior years about 14-15 years old, then then he'll improve quickly through highschool. By early twenties, he's already knocking on top pros, and by mid-20, he become one of the tops of top pros. But the improvement would at some point level out around 25ish, and then even starts to decline; you'd be lucky to hold a high platuea.
> 
> I see this a lot in college track, swiming, basketball, and football. Though I didn't play those sports, but I followed them in college. Soccer is another area that this also holds true. Simply put, when there is natural talent, it comes early in the junior years, and then continues to pile on fast until early 20s, then probably peak around mid- to late 20s. This is the case for many sports requiring stamina and power.
> 
> But in cycling, the "talents" seem to not follow this pattern of human physiology. Why are there so many cases of "cyling talents" developing suddenly and dramatically at a later age,, but showed almost no talent indicative of the latter years when they were juniors? This is the suspicous part. Why weren't we seeing talents piling on when they were younger? You put this fact with the fact that cycling is a dirty sport,.. well... I'll just let the believers believe in miracles. I ain't.


Well, you can look at other sports that show this late blooming effect as well. Tim Duncan never touched a basketball until he was in High School. There are quite a few others as well. Froome didnt have any cycling experience but he was on the bike since he was 12 and turned pro when he was 22 and was already known as a climber (just look at his ITT results as well and you can see that he always excelled at them as well) then so after 6 years of pro-development why is it surprising that he is preforming now? He is 28. 


I think a ton of it has to do with the ability to accept pain. When you are younger you want to give up and often do. Yet, after years of riding you learn to ride with the pain. Some of the best riders in my area are in their late 20s and early 30s.


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## foto

foto said:


> Personally, I can't wait for Quintana to become a team leader.


Wow, "Ask and you shall receive!" What a stage!


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## Art853

Froome isn't improving. Everyone else is just going slower.


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## ColoradoMike

Is Froome really this good?! He dominated the ITT and now out climbs the entire field after the dramatic flat-stage mix-up with Contador where he was chasing the entire time to minimize the time gap.

Someone on here said pro cycling is about entertainment but what's entertaining about the race being over so soon?


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## DonDenver

900 or some near number of pro level riders. 198 @ the tour. Froome looks like he's racing with moon gravity. I'd like to cheer that gap...but I can't...I've been there before.


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## PMacAZ

r1lee said:


> professional cycling is for entertainment, if you just keep it at that it's fun to watch.
> 
> 
> The whole Peloton is doped to the gills...


/\ This /\


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## dwt

regnaD kciN said:


> This article is well worth reading:
> 
> http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/biking/Analysing-Froomes-Performance.html


That pretty much settles it AFAIC. Doped or not (and I say obviously doped) UK Postal was BORING last year and is equally BORING this year. God am I sick of superhuman total domination of TdF. I can watch WWE with equal edge of my seat excitement. Who has been scripted to be untouchable dominant rider today?

Not to mention that Froome has zero charisma. Looks like Chris Horner, except he has all of the dope, but none of the telegenics.


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## albert owen

This is Armstrong's poisonous legacy:
Our sport has been so tainted by years of lies we can't celebrate a fabulous performance............. just in case..........


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## burgrat

albert owen said:


> This is Armstrong's poisonous legacy:
> Our sport has been so tainted by years of lies we can't celebrate a fabulous performance............. just in case..........


Sad, but true.


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## Creakyknees

He was born at altitude, in Kenya. (According to Phil and Paul). 

So that's why he's comfortable doing repeated 1200 watt sprints (seated) up the Ventoux after over 100 miles in the heat and hills.


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## harlond

dwt said:


> That pretty much settles it AFAIC.


The author of that article claims only that his analysis supports healthy skepticism, not that it settles anything. That follows a very lengthy list of caveats.


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## tazzmacd

foto said:


> Old people winning races? They must be doping! Look at their history!
> 
> Young people winning races? They must be doping! They came out of nowhere!
> 
> Rider showing consistent form year after year? Not natural!
> 
> Rider showing consistent improvement year after year? Can't be done without juice!
> 
> Rider declining? Must be scared of getting busted!
> 
> seriously do you guys even ride?


You forgot the most important one, wait he rides better then I do he has to juice!


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## Cableguy

Creakyknees said:


> He was born at altitude, in Kenya. (According to Phil and Paul).
> 
> So that's why he's comfortable doing repeated 1200 watt sprints (seated) up the Ventoux after over 100 miles in the heat and hills.


Is that number legit or are you just guessing? I'm curious what Froome was doing during those accelerations, but I would guess more like 600-800w


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## atpjunkie

the worst part is he is so gawd awful looking while riding. He doesn't look good riding, he looks like a tall emaciated Voekler thrashing about his machine. He is just hard to watch


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## AJL

atpjunkie said:


> the worst part is he is so gawd awful looking while riding. He doesn't look good riding, he looks like a tall emaciated Voekler thrashing about his machine. He is just hard to watch


Agreed. My wife, who's interest in the TdF exists only because it typically makes me a bit happier for 3 weeks out of the year, told me that the 'Froome guy looks weird the way his arms kinda stick out.' :lol:


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## Cyclin Dan

atpjunkie said:


> the worst part is he is so gawd awful looking while riding. He doesn't look good riding, he looks like a tall emaciated Voekler thrashing about his machine. He is just hard to watch


So true. He looks so awkward, it's actually comical.


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## pedalruns

atpjunkie said:


> the worst part is he is so gawd awful looking while riding. He doesn't look good riding, he looks like a tall emaciated Voekler thrashing about his machine. He is just hard to watch


yes.. very wierd movements, his head and whole body.. It is like he has Tourette syndrome while he is pedaling... Has he always looked like that?


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## dwt

harlond said:


> The author of that article claims only that his analysis supports healthy skepticism, not that it settles anything. That follows a very lengthy list of caveats.


If the performance is "not natural" it's not natural. He's doped and so was Sir Wiggins and UK Postal is a disgrace and painful to watch. They shamelessly run up the score sucking all drama and suspense from the race. Poor Richie Porte had take one for the Team, lose time and GC position, in a pathetic ploy to show that the team is human. Bollocks. 

This sport is still a friggin joke and hasn't changed one iota after Lance's debacle. But then so is Olympic sprinting:

http://m.newyorker.com/online/blogs...tyson-gay-runnings-latest-doping-scandal.html

One difference is how a guy with balls responds when he get busted, from Tyson Gay:



> I don’t have a sabotage story. I don’t have any lies. I don’t have anything to say to make this seem like it was a mistake or it was on USADA’s hands, someone playing games. I don’t have any of those stories.


He could have added: "just trying to keep the playing field level" and nobody would hold it against him. 

No cyclist has ever been so candid.


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## ColoradoMike

Creakyknees said:


> He was born at altitude, in Kenya. (According to Phil and Paul).
> 
> So that's why he's comfortable doing repeated 1200 watt sprints (seated) up the Ventoux after over 100 miles in the heat and hills.


*facepalm* I'm so tired of Phil and Paul defending Froome's honor. The guy is a cheat and they know it. I ride almost everyday at 6,000 feet and this is where I grew up. Wow, I must be one of the best climbers on this forum!


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## Cableguy

ColoradoMike said:


> *facepalm* I'm so tired of Phil and Paul defending Froome's honor. The guy is a cheat and they know it. I ride almost everyday at 6,000 feet and this is where I grew up. Wow, I must be one of the best climbers on this forum!


Sorry, I was born at 6,001 feet... I'm better


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## Spunner

*"He's not human" my wife said*

 and I was reminded of this


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## tlg

AJL said:


> Agreed. My wife, who's interest in the TdF exists only because it typically makes me a bit happier for 3 weeks out of the year, told me that the 'Froome guy looks weird the way his arms kinda stick out.' :lol:


He sticks his arms out to slow him down. If he tucked them in, he'd go faster. He's trying to make it no so obvious. 
He doesn't want us pondering why he's 8min ahead.


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## AJL

tlg said:


> He sticks his arms out to slow him down. If he tucked them in, he'd go faster. He's trying to make it no so obvious.
> He doesn't want us pondering why he's 8min ahead.


LOL :lol:


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## poppy

I love cycling, im sure every one here loves cycling as well.
We all got disapointed time after time and most of us became cinical (rialistic baybe..), I see it as two options to give up on cycling on not to give up and i choose not to.
I would look at any great preformance on this mountain, or this time trial and see the gratness and nothing ales.
I think his two stage wins especially on Ventoux as classic historical event and i wish to see many more.
And hope everyone will be able to except Froome as the great champion he is.


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## regnaD kciN

albert owen said:


> This is Armstrong's poisonous legacy:
> Our sport has been so tainted by years of lies we can't celebrate a fabulous performance............. just in case..........


Not just Armstrong -- we had the Festina scandal, etc, before Lance ever provided his first "miracle."


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## Skewer

Froome dominates US Pro Challenge next month.


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## regnaD kciN

poppy;4408223I see it as two options to give up on cycling on not to give up and i choose not to.[/QUOTE said:


> In other words, you choose to put blinders on "for the love of the game." Fine, but the problem with that approach is that sometimes (as has happened time and again over the past fifteen years) circumstances pull the blinders away whether you like it or not.
> 
> The thing is, to "give up on cycling" in the context you place it, really equates "cycling" with "professional bicycle racing" -- in other words, unless you're in the pro peloton itself, as a spectator sport. I don't do that. Even if I were convinced that the pros remained as blatantly corrupt as in the Festina-Postal era (and I tend to lean that way), it doesn't take away the slightest bit of pleasure for when I'm out doing laps of the neighborhood, or doing longer distances on weekends, or going on a group ride or organized event. I haven't attempted a century yet, but hopefully I'll do that someday, and, when I achieve that, or even a more-ambitious goal like riding STP, I won't personally give a damn about what happened in that year's TdF, or let any questions about that or any other race make me want to "give up on cycling."


----------



## atpjunkie

regnaD kciN said:


> Not just Armstrong -- we had the Festina scandal, etc, before Lance ever provided his first "miracle."


and T-Kom and Jan and Mr 60% Bjarne


----------



## AJL

atpjunkie said:


> and T-Kom and Jan and Mr 60% Bjarne


And of course Pantani and unremembered cyclists who died in their sleep and so on.
It's interesting how Indurain gets left alone.


----------



## sir duke

atpjunkie said:


> the worst part is he is so gawd awful looking while riding. He doesn't look good riding, he looks like a tall emaciated Voekler thrashing about his machine. He is just hard to watch


Yeah, he's an ugly fvcker. How dare he win anything? I heard even his mother isn't that keen on him.


----------



## SFTifoso

Judging a guy because he might be cheating is one thing, but judging people because you think they're ugly is pretty freaking sad, and says a lot about you as a human being. Are you the type who snickers when you see an overweight cyclist trying to better himself or herself?


----------



## Rokh On

Skewer said:


> Froome dominates US Pro Challenge next month.


I didn't know it was announced he is coming.


----------



## tlg

Rokh On said:


> I didn't know it was announced he is coming.


He's so dominant, he's going to win without even being there.


----------



## love4himies

whoops wrong thread.


----------



## gofast2wheeler

Who cares what you look like on a bike pedaling as long as you get to the top the fastest. Froome is an exceptional rider and Porte is an excellent teammate. They are doing what needs to be done to win the hardest race around. Give credit when credit is do and don't accuse until proven guilty. It just deminishes his accomplishments.


----------



## Cableguy

gofast2wheeler said:


> *They are doing what needs to be done to win the hardest race around.* Give credit when credit is do...


----------



## Ventruck

gofast2wheeler said:


> Who cares what you look like on a bike pedaling as long as you get to the top the fastest. Froome is an exceptional rider and Porte is an excellent teammate. They are doing what needs to be done to win the hardest race around. Give credit when credit is do and don't accuse until proven guilty. It just deminishes his accomplishments.


Yes

YES

He has a special talent that only few could harness. He's driven by hard work and adversity, and will be knighted for proving his justice. There is nothing wrong with a miracle, and the negative implications behind others' posts will not deter his rightful believers in enjoying what is a historical moment in history. A new era of cycling.


----------



## foto

I hear the tour is so hard its impossible for anyone to win it.


----------



## davidka

gofast2wheeler said:


> Give credit when credit is do and don't accuse until proven guilty.


What exactly constitutes "proof" anymore?


----------



## pedalruns

Ventruck said:


> Yes
> A new era of cycling.


Maybe a new era in gene doping.


----------



## harlond

When Lemond won the Tour in 1986, the American (what????) finished 3:10 ahead of his teammate and all-time great Hinault, 10:54 ahead of Zimmerman, 18:44 (!!!) ahead of Hampsten, and a gobsmacking 24:35 ahead of 5th-place finisher Criquelion. As I understand the logic of this thread, these results prove Lemond is a doper.


----------



## saird

Froome is a ledge.


----------



## Dan333sp

Not to be pedantic, but Armstrong wasn't the first and only doper, just the highest profile fall from grace. For most of us, suspicion and doubt at inhuman performances is a legacy of a series of earlier scandals like Festina.


----------



## captain stubbing

i get it....you are all ex-lance fanboys, he was a cancer survivor and won 7 tdfsl, and you loved and idolised him but he lied to you and broke your heart.

now if he could could cheat and lie to you, then everyone will.


----------



## Ventruck

captain stubbing said:


> i get it....you are all ex-lance fanboys, he was a cancer survivor and won 7 tdfsl, and you loved and idolised him but he lied to you and broke your heart.
> 
> now if he could could cheat and lie to you, then everyone will.


this. Lance isn't the only winning cyclist this world can produce, stop fooling yourselves haters. Froome is a miraculous talent. He overcame adversity and trained really hard, and built a team like no other to establish newfound dominance. Lance never resembled any of that. Froome can never lie.


----------



## Dan333sp

AJL said:


> And of course Pantani and unremembered cyclists who died in their sleep and so on.
> It's interesting how Indurain gets left alone.


Spanish media defend him with all they are worth. He also generally stays well out of the limelight and retired at exactly the right time to avoid getting his hands dirty.


----------



## ColoradoMike

captain stubbing said:


> i get it....you are all ex-lance fanboys, he was a cancer survivor and won 7 tdfsl, and you loved and idolised him but he lied to you and broke your heart.
> 
> now if he could could cheat and lie to you, then everyone will.


More of a Mayo/Ullrich fan myself but they were using PED's as well. What raises suspicion over Froome is he kind of came out of nowhere. He went from domestic to GC dominator in 1 year!!! What are we going to see Porte have a major break through next year?

Also, Froome's inability to crack in the mountains is kind of shady. The entire Tour he was attacked over and over again and never once had a bad day in the mountains. Even when Froome looked to be in pain, he'd counter-attack and blow past everyone like Superman. Team Sky also kept breaking the no food in the last however many kilometers to the finish rule, so who knows what was really in those food bags.


----------



## LostViking

"i get it....you are all ex-lance fanboys, he was a cancer survivor and won 7 tdfsl, and you loved and idolised him but he lied to you and broke your heart.

now if he could could cheat and lie to you, then everyone will." - Capt. Stubbing 

Conti fan-boy here Captain, and we know how that went! 

Like everyone else here, I'd like to believe the Froomie is as clean as driven snow - but it isn't just Armstrong who lied - it seems like they all did.

That taken into account, is it really so strange that people should wonder how someone who was only good a couple of year's back not only wins the Tour - but does so with a cozy 5 minute cushion?

In reality, I doubt it would matter if Froome won or anyone else did - cycling fans have become jaded and wary of all the lies - of people telling them they are clean and trustworthy, that they just have better tech or better training, etc. and then the truth comes out.


----------



## love4himies

LostViking said:


> "i get it....you are all ex-lance fanboys, he was a cancer survivor and won 7 tdfsl, and you loved and idolised him but he lied to you and broke your heart.
> 
> now if he could could cheat and lie to you, then everyone will." - Capt. Stubbing
> 
> Conti fan-boy here Captain, and we know how that went!
> 
> Like everyone else here, I'd like to believe the Froomie is as clean as driven snow - but it isn't just Armstrong who lied - it seems like they all did.
> 
> That taken into account, is it really so strange that people should wonder how someone who was only good a couple of year's back not only wins the Tour - but does so with a cozy 5 minute cushion?
> 
> In reality, I doubt it would matter if Froome won or anyone else did - cycling fans have become jaded and wary of all the lies - of people telling them they are clean and trustworthy, that they just have better tech or better training, etc. and then the truth comes out.


That's how it is with me. It's not just Lance's lies, but ALL the lies and cheating.


----------



## troutmd

Pro cycling past history raises some skepticism. Unfortunately Froome's TdF domination does not lessen my concern.


----------



## atpjunkie

AJL said:


> And of course Pantani and unremembered cyclists who died in their sleep and so on.
> It's interesting how Indurain gets left alone.


Miguel was a gentleman and everyone liked him
when he retired he pretty much disappeared
people still like him

sometimes it sucks being an a hole


----------



## atpjunkie

LostViking said:


> "i get it....you are all ex-lance fanboys, he was a cancer survivor and won 7 tdfsl, and you loved and idolised him but he lied to you and broke your heart.
> 
> now if he could could cheat and lie to you, then everyone will." - Capt. Stubbing
> 
> Conti fan-boy here Captain, and we know how that went!
> 
> Like everyone else here, I'd like to believe the Froomie is as clean as driven snow - but it isn't just Armstrong who lied - it seems like they all did.
> 
> That taken into account, is it really so strange that people should wonder how someone who was only good a couple of year's back not only wins the Tour - but does so with a cozy 5 minute cushion?
> 
> In reality, I doubt it would matter if Froome won or anyone else did - cycling fans have become jaded and wary of all the lies - of people telling them they are clean and trustworthy, that they just have better tech or better training, etc. and then the truth comes out.


I'm a Domo Farm Frites Fanboi and my interest in pro cycling wanes after the second
week in April. The 10 fastest times up Alpe d'Huez all dopers (the top 5 are Pantani and Armstrong) The tour podiums from the 90s to say a year ago, dopers or guys suspected of doping. Lance lied, so did Jan, Marco, Virenque, Beloki, Vino.....
BFD. The dope that Tyler took never won him a GT, nor the dope Levi took. The dope George took never won him Roubaix or the Ronde. I don't buy the myth that some riders/ teams have better dope than the rest, there isn't a pharm company providing exclusives that they can never use as advertising. I see them as all doped, just like I see the field in an NFL game. Doesn't detract from watching for me


----------



## captain stubbing

well no not really, he started getting some very good results 2 years ago (2nd in the vuelta) at the age of 26, at an age cyclists start to mature...he's improved and now at 28 should be at his peak, which he is.

he sort of cracked on Alpe d'Huez and had to take food/drink and copped a time penalty so not sure what you call that. anyway, i don't seem to remember too many grand tour winners actually cracking....thats why they win!

did niblai crack during the giro? contador at the vuelta? wiggins or even evans at the last couple of TDFs? hell, even hesjedhl didn't crack when he won the giro.


----------



## Purt

captain stubbing said:


> i get it....you are all ex-lance fanboys, he was a cancer survivor and won 7 tdfsl, and you loved and idolised him but he lied to you and broke your heart.
> 
> now if he could could cheat and lie to you, then everyone will.


Why do brits keep pulling up this bullshit?


----------



## Local Hero

foto said:


> Old people winning races? They must be doping! Look at their history!
> 
> Young people winning races? They must be doping! They came out of nowhere!
> 
> Rider showing consistent form year after year? Not natural!
> 
> Rider showing consistent improvement year after year? Can't be done without juice!
> 
> Rider declining? Must be scared of getting busted!
> 
> seriously do you guys even ride?


I tried to make this post months ago. You did a better job than me.


----------



## captain stubbing

sorry, not a brit...not even close.

also not a sky/froome supporter either, more a ag2r mondial sort of guy.


----------



## ManBehindTheCurtain

Froomie looks really convincing when he is insisting that he is totally clean.

Almost as convincing as Ryan Braun.

But not quite.


----------



## Slartibartfast

ManBehindTheCurtain said:


> Froomie looks really convincing when he is insisting that he is totally clean.
> 
> Almost as convincing as Ryan Braun.
> 
> But not quite.


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## texasnewb

So those of you who think Froome is clean...do you think the rest of the peleton was clean? Or at least the GC contenders? If yes....I have some land I'd like to sell you. If no, you're saying a clean Froome EASILY beat several doping, talented, past champion, proven riders while riding "pan y agua". Keep in mind he gained most of his 5 min lead on the field in one climb...then sat back and simply followed any attackers up the mountains for two weeks. IMO he could have won by 10-15 min but chose not to execute any further super-human climbing attacks in order to avoid any more suspicion than what he received after decimating the field on that first big climbing stage.


----------



## dwt

Sure doping remains rampant in prof cycling. UK Postal proves that beyond a doubt . Froome and drugs can climb and ITT, but dope doesn't fix poor bike handling skills. The GC contenders who finished today's stage, doped or not, deserve props just for finishing. Nibali impressed big time


----------



## thumper8888

The only dope that would have helped him today is the eight ball of heroin he needed to get back on that bike with a broken wrist.


----------



## 32and3cross

In before the move.

Actually tho having a broken wrist makes controlling the bike pretty hard esp on a wet nervous day.


----------



## chizhang001001

dope or not i still like to see froome vs contador


----------



## poppy

*There always will be haters*, could be great Tour, its shame to see him out of the race.
Great guy and great racer

Hopefully we see him back later on this season winning the Vaulta


----------



## bigjohnla

I am wondering how badly Team SKY is regretting their decison to not have Wiggins at the Tour this year. I won't say it was predictable, but it sure seems like they put themselves in a precarious spot by going into the event with only one real GC contender. It is amazing how often decsisions like this come back to haunt you. Froome looked kind of frail after his crash at the Dauphine. Both Schleck and Froome are tall and rail thin. I am thinking that smaller but sturdier riders may have an advanatge in the "clean" cycling world of today. I do think that the GC is wide open now. Should be really entertaining.


----------



## love4himies

They do still have Porte. If he can pull off a great race, he may stay in the top 10.


----------



## rufus

Maybe if he wasn't shoe-gazing at his stem all the time, he wouldn't crash so much.


----------



## chizhang001001

Chris Froome Looking at Stems


----------



## NJBiker72

bigjohnla said:


> I am wondering how badly Team SKY is regretting their decison to not have Wiggins at the Tour this year. I won't say it was predictable, but it sure seems like they put themselves in a precarious spot by going into the event with only one real GC contender. It is amazing how often decsisions like this come back to haunt you. Froome looked kind of frail after his crash at the Dauphine. Both Schleck and Froome are tall and rail thin. I am thinking that smaller but sturdier riders may have an advanatge in the "clean" cycling world of today. I do think that the GC is wide open now. Should be really entertaining.


I agree. Also have to say that I feel less sorry for Froome. I can't imagine he had nothing to do with excluding Wiggins.


----------



## Rich Gibson

rufus said:


> Maybe if he wasn't shoe-gazing at his stem all the time, he wouldn't crash so much.


As over simplified as your remark sounds it may be at the core of his difficulties. In the Dauphine he missed a pot hole, then yesterday he misses a crossing rider and today he runs into an unexpected road barricade. Taken individually one might dismiss your remark but when one considers the similarity of circumstances it seems plausible.

Rich


----------



## atpjunkie

rufus said:


> Maybe if he wasn't shoe-gazing at his stem all the time, he wouldn't crash so much.


but it was Wiggins who hung out with Oasis


----------



## velodog

NJBiker72 said:


> I agree. Also have to say that I feel less sorry for Froome. I can't imagine he had nothing to do with excluding Wiggins.


----------



## burgrat

Hopefully he'll be full on for the Vuelta. Contador is supposed to be there, and also Quintana. That might be a heck of a race this year.


----------



## Cinelli 82220

Rich Gibson said:


> In the Dauphine he missed a pot hole, then yesterday he misses a crossing rider and today he runs into an unexpected road barricade. Taken individually one might dismiss your remark but when one considers the similarity of circumstances it seems plausible.


Sky needs to race more and train less.

They spend too much time training in isolation, going up and down a hill in Tenerife instead of racing their opponents. Froome and Porte can't read a race if their lives depend on it, without a radio they can't find their backside.
Sky has several riders with huge talent, Thomas, Eisel and EBH, those three should be great classics riders but they get nowhere. I really think they need more racing and less hill-climbing-by-numbers.


----------



## Rich Gibson

velodog said:


> View attachment 297769


Photoshop.


----------



## pulser955

Not a Froome fan at all but It was hard to see him keep crashing. By the last one I felt really bad for the guy he just looked really hurt.


----------



## velodog

Rich Gibson said:


> Photoshop.


Well, yeah, but it's still funny.


----------



## Dunbar

velodog said:


> Well, yeah, but it's still funny.


It would be funny even without the photoshop. Wiggins relaxing on summer vacation while mayhem unfolds for Sky in the TDF.


----------



## rufus

Rich Gibson said:


> As over simplified as your remark sounds it may be at the core of his difficulties. In the Dauphine he missed a pot hole, then yesterday he misses a crossing rider and today he runs into an unexpected road barricade. Taken individually one might dismiss your remark but when one considers the similarity of circumstances it seems plausible.
> 
> Rich


It didn't cause consequences last year because he was following his riders in a train at the front of the race. Just have the wheel in front of you. But here, where he's riding in the middle of the pack on not so great roads.....................


----------



## myhui

Meanwhile, the first ever Chinese national to ride the tour is in last place.

Does he do windshield duty all out for thirty minutes for his team and then gets out of the way?


----------



## mikerp

velodog said:


> Well, yeah, but it's still funny.


I have to agree, wonder if he has nice cup of tea and some biscuits next to him.


----------



## mikerp

myhui said:


> Meanwhile, the first ever Chinese national to ride the tour is in last place.
> 
> Does he do windshield duty all out for thirty minutes for his team and then gets out of the way?


Like most new guys to an event like this he is trying to adapt, he won't make it if he is always at the back, he needs to figure out how to stick with the grupetto.


----------



## SauronHimself

mikerp said:


> I have to agree, wonder if he has nice cup of tea and some biscuits next to him.


As long as he isn't using all that spare time to play Soggy Biscuit...


----------



## rufus

mikerp said:


> Like most new guys to an event like this he is trying to adapt, he won't make it if he is always at the back, he needs to figure out how to stick with the grupetto.



He's been leading the Giant train for an hour or two at the front of the peloton pretty near every sprint stage, I'd say he's just putting in his hard effort, and then getting home however best he can.


----------



## myhui

rufus said:


> He's been leading the Giant train for an hour or two at the front of the peloton pretty near every sprint stage, I'd say he's just putting in his hard effort, and then getting home however best he can.


Is there a record of this from the race organizers? I do notice an Asian face at the front on TV sometimes.


----------



## rufus

Phil and Paul have mentioned him pretty much every day he's been on the front.


----------



## velodog

rufus said:


> He's been leading the Giant train for an hour or two at the front of the peloton pretty near every sprint stage, I'd say he's just putting in his hard effort, and then getting home however best he can.


This...

There ain't no way that Giant put the man in the Tour just so they could say, "Look at us, we got a Chinaman". He's there because he's an asset to the team.


----------



## velodog

myhui said:


> Is there a record of this from the race organizers? I do notice an Asian face at the front on TV sometimes.


So, myhui, am I to believe that that it's your feeling that Giant has him there for no other reason than to say "look at us, we got a Chinaman"?


----------



## Creakyknees

"Revealing how Froome crashed out

Horner compared Wednesday's stage on the cobbles to drag racing, revealing he was close to Chris Froome when he crashed and retired from the Tour de France.

He insisted Froome had no real fault in the crash.

"Ah man, yesterday was devastating. We went: sprint, stop, sprint, stop, sprint, stop. You hit the brakes as hard as you could and your bike is sliding in every direction. Then you have to start sprinting hard again to stay on the wheel," Horner said.

"I was right there when Froome went down. He slid about 50 yards. I'm not surprise he climbed off."

"He caught a little crack in the road. There was road furniture on the left and he got caught in the crack and it took his front wheel. It was nothing he could do about it. It wasn't about experience or lack of bike handling skills. It was just very slippery and he got caught in the gap and went down. It could have happened to any rider.""

Horner hoping to find his form at the Tour de France | Cyclingnews.com


----------



## AvantDale

velodog said:


> This...
> 
> There ain't no way that Giant put the man in the Tour just so they could say, "Look at us, we got a Chinaman". He's there because he's an asset to the team.


From Kittel's Twitter page:

"And a big compliment to @3sdevenyns & @jicheng369 for their great work in front of the bunch today & getting the breakaway back! Chapeau!!!"

Oh dang...forgot its a Froome thread...


----------



## foto

Creakyknees said:


> "Revealing how Froome crashed out
> 
> Horner compared Wednesday's stage on the cobbles to drag racing, revealing he was close to Chris Froome when he crashed and retired from the Tour de France.
> 
> He insisted Froome had no real fault in the crash.
> 
> "Ah man, yesterday was devastating. We went: sprint, stop, sprint, stop, sprint, stop. You hit the brakes as hard as you could and your bike is sliding in every direction. Then you have to start sprinting hard again to stay on the wheel," Horner said.
> 
> "I was right there when Froome went down. He slid about 50 yards. I'm not surprise he climbed off."
> 
> "He caught a little crack in the road. There was road furniture on the left and he got caught in the crack and it took his front wheel. It was nothing he could do about it. It wasn't about experience or lack of bike handling skills. It was just very slippery and he got caught in the gap and went down. It could have happened to any rider.""
> 
> Horner hoping to find his form at the Tour de France | Cyclingnews.com


Except that this doesn't happen to Boss leaders like Cadel (did I just say that?) who always stay at the front and out of trouble.


----------



## velodog

foto said:


> Except that this doesn't happen to Boss leaders like Cadel (did I just say that?) who always stay at the front and out of trouble.


Or Nibali, who was expected to lose the jersey on stage 5. But by riding smart and protected at the front, not only kept the jersey, but rode away from everyone but Boom. And there were some specialists at the party.


----------



## Creakyknees

velodog said:


> Or Nibali,


who hired JOHAN MUSEEW to teach him how to ride cobbles. 
where was Froome in March and April?


----------



## ratherBclimbing

velodog said:


> This...
> 
> There ain't no way that Giant put the man in the Tour just so they could say, "Look at us, we got a Chinaman". He's there because he's an asset to the team.


The Chinaman is not the issue here, Dude


----------



## dnice

ratherBclimbing said:


> The Chinaman is not the issue here, Dude


well done, sir! well done, indeed! Repped!:thumbsup:


----------



## aclinjury

Creakyknees said:


> "Revealing how Froome crashed out
> 
> Horner compared Wednesday's stage on the cobbles to drag racing, revealing he was close to Chris Froome when he crashed and retired from the Tour de France.
> 
> He insisted Froome had no real fault in the crash.
> 
> "Ah man, yesterday was devastating. We went: sprint, stop, sprint, stop, sprint, stop. You hit the brakes as hard as you could and your bike is sliding in every direction. Then you have to start sprinting hard again to stay on the wheel," Horner said.
> 
> "I was right there when Froome went down. He slid about 50 yards. I'm not surprise he climbed off."
> 
> "He caught a little crack in the road. There was road furniture on the left and he got caught in the crack and it took his front wheel. It was nothing he could do about it. It wasn't about experience or lack of bike handling skills. It was just very slippery and he got caught in the gap and went down. It could have happened to any rider.""
> 
> Horner hoping to find his form at the Tour de France | Cyclingnews.com


Horner is a crasher himself. Takes one to understand one. Now if Nibali says the same thing, than I would look at it differently.


----------



## ghettocop

aclinjury said:


> Horner is a crasher himself. Takes one to understand one. Now if Nibali says the same thing, than I would look at it differently.


This. Horner has a well documented propensity for crashing.


----------



## velodog

ratherBclimbing said:


> The Chinaman is not the issue here, Dude


That's right, dude. It's the ignorance of the post that I responded to, you know, the one by myhui where he seemed to question The mans capabilities.

But I guess that you didn't see that one. Maybe because he hid his racism by questioning the abilities of the Chinese national in the race.


----------



## velodog

Creakyknees said:


> who hired JOHAN MUSEEW to teach him how to ride cobbles.
> where was Froome in March and April?


Practicing riding in a small group of team mates.


----------



## ratherBclimbing

velodog said:


> That's right, dude. It's the ignorance of the post that I responded to, you know, the one by myhui where he seemed to question The mans capabilities.
> 
> But I guess that you didn't see that one. Maybe because he hid his racism by questioning the abilities of the Chinese national in the race.


You're taking all of this far too seriously. Perhaps less caffeine?

Also, Dude, Chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian-American, please.


----------



## velodog

ratherBclimbing said:


> You're taking all of this far too seriously. Perhaps less caffeine?
> 
> Also, Dude, Chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian-American, please.


Just like I thought, you see nothing but the word.


----------



## ratherBclimbing

velodog said:


> Just like I thought, you see nothing but the word.


We're talking about unchecked aggression here, dude


----------



## dnice

this thread is the gift that keeps on giving.


----------



## juno

ghettocop said:


> This. Horner has a well documented propensity for crashing.


Yeah but the dude bounces back like no ones business. After getting almost killed by that car in the tunnel in italy he is in good form at 42 and riding the wheels off a bunch of 20 somethings in the tour.


----------



## ghettocop

juno said:


> Yeah but the dude bounces back like no ones business. After getting almost killed by that car in the tunnel in italy he is in good form at 42 and riding the wheels off a bunch of 20 somethings in the tour.


Agreed.


----------



## dwt

juno said:


> Yeah but the dude bounces back like no ones business. After getting almost killed by that car in the tunnel in italy he is in good form at 42 and riding the wheels off a bunch of 20 somethings in the tour.


I like him personally and his vast knowledge of racing strategy and tactics would make him a great TV commentator or even Directeur Sportif after he finally retires. 

But not believing Lance doped. C'mon now. Also dope is the only way a 42 y/o hangs with 20 somethings 

Just sayin.


----------



## Zurichman

SFTifoso said:


> Judging a guy because he might be cheating is one thing, but judging people because you think they're ugly is pretty freaking sad, and says a lot about you as a human being. Are you the type who snickers when you see an overweight cyclist trying to better himself or herself?


No but I kind of snicker when I see them buying a $4000 + bicycle to save a couple of lbs. and $1000+ aero wheels when they would be better served losing a fee lbs. off the motor.

On another note it doesn't bother me that much that Lance doped as lots did. What bothers me is that he forced his teammates to and had so much power that he forced Trek to drop my beloved bike brand Lemond.


----------



## dwt

Zurichman said:


> On another note it doesn't bother me that much that Lance doped as lots did. What bothers me is that he forced his teammates to and had so much power that he forced Trek to drop my beloved bike brand Lemond.


Not to mention his horrible if not abusive treatment of former wife, teammates and friends. An asshat of historic proportions. He was so arrogant, he burnt all his bridges without regret, & in the process dug a deep grave in which he will lie alone


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