# Dogma f8 - ride review



## iridepinarello

So I got my Dogma F8 built up today (with Dura Ace DI2) and went for an initial spin.

Upfront Disclosure... As a lifelong Pinarello fan, take my review with a grain of salt 

First off, I've owned a Pinarello F2, F3, original Prince, most recent Prince, Dogma, Dogma 2, and now currently own a Dogma 65.1 Think2 along with the new F8, and a Scott Foil Premium.

I'm going to do a far more detailed review once I've done more rides, on more terrain, and on several different wheels, but here's my initial notes:

- My 54cm bike fully built with Dura Ace Di2, speedplay Zero pedals, and my Campy Hyperon Tubulars weighed only 14.10 lbs. When I also tested with my handbuilt HED Belgium Tubulars with Campy Hubs laced 32 3-cross, it weighed 15.20 (from what I recall). Either way, the bike is light.

- My initial reaction when I started riding it was... "holy crap, this is fantastic". The geometry feels exactly like my Think2, but the F8 is way more of a race feeling bike. The mechanic who built the bike and did the initial test ride commented... "damn, this thing is seriously nice".

- Cornering was simply great. You can really blast into a corner with total confidence. There's no slipping feeling or sensation. It completely grips the corner flawlessly.

- It's NOT a harsh ride at all. I thought it would be much more than it is. That said, it's not as forgiving as any of the other Dogma's I've had, but very comfortable nonetheless. I'd have no concerns doing a long ride on it. In fact, this weekend I'll do a 3 hour test ride one day and a 4 the next just to see what it's like on a long ride.

All in all, the bike is exceeding my expectations so far. It's downright great (IMHO).

Sincerely,

A self admitted Pinarello fan


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## Cinelli 82220

Thanks for that!


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## spdntrxi

my eyes my eyes.. I so didn't need to read that... makes me want.


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## Donn12

let us know what specifically feels better for the 65.1 and for the F8. are they on a 2 year cycle? I sure would hate to semi retire my 65.1 and get a F8 then lust after the F9 two years from now!


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## iridepinarello

I'll do that once I have more time on the bike, but regardless of what you'll get, you lust for the "F9" when it comes out. Remember, the # of bikes you need is equal to n + 1


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## antihero77

Great now I'm going to pine over this bike. I need to see the colours offered in person before I commit. But this bike is def coming home with me this year the problem is once you ride a pinarello it's hard to not want to get the new one.


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## iridepinarello

"the problem is once you ride a pinarello it's hard to not want to get the new one." So well said and so true. They just ride different from other brands.


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## config

Pics please.


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## MMsRepBike

antihero77 said:


> Great now I'm going to pine over this bike. I need to see the colours offered in person before I commit. But this bike is def coming home with me this year the problem is once you ride a pinarello it's hard to not want to get the new one.


Probably going to have to wait. Our shop got in our frames yesterday but only one color was available to us. We were told we would have to wait until probably August or September at least to get other colors. We do have one myway on order already though, mainly white. Hopefully I'm there when it arrives so I can take some pics of it.


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## antihero77

MMsRepBike said:


> Probably going to have to wait. Our shop got in our frames yesterday but only one color was available to us. We were told we would have to wait until probably August or September at least to get other colors. We do have one myway on order already though, mainly white. Hopefully I'm there when it arrives so I can take some pics of it.


Please take some pics. 
The Titan and bob are looking real nice. I just wished that bikes would come with zero logos or branding.


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## iridepinarello

Here you go... 

I rode it again this AM for about 2 hours. The bike is unreal. It's so solid and comfortable, not to mention FAST! It's agile beyond belief, but not twitchy or flimsy. Unreal bike.


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## goodboyr

Climbs like a mountain goat on cocaine, descends like a greased eel, ...............


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## Rokh On

:yesnod: Very nice.


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## antihero77

I noticed in the geometry that they raised the head tubes a fair bit compared to the dogma2


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## iridepinarello

Yes, I think so. From what I can tell, it's about 5mm higher. I used 5mm less stack on my F8 compared to my Think2


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## Barts27

Great bike that is growing on me. I love my 65.1 because it is so Italian. The F8 looks sexy and fast, but different. I love the fork but I am not fond off the seatstays. I looks too much like a BMC.
Good luck with your F8! :thumbsup:


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## Donn12

I am waiting to see the other colors...mine has a shiny coat over the carbon weave and looks slightly too flashy ...and I love it. Hate to get the current colorway (which looks great is maybe less italian) only to lust after the other red/black version when it is released later this year.


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## OscarTheGreat

*F8 & 25mm Tyres*



iridepinarello said:


> Here you go...
> 
> I rode it again this AM for about 2 hours. The bike is unreal. It's so solid and comfortable, not to mention FAST! It's agile beyond belief, but not twitchy or flimsy. Unreal bike.
> 
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> Hi guys,
> About to collect my F8. Is it true its not 25mm compatible due to clearance?


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## antihero77

OscarTheGreat said:


> iridepinarello said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go...
> 
> I rode it again this AM for about 2 hours. The bike is unreal. It's so solid and comfortable, not to mention FAST! It's agile beyond belief, but not twitchy or flimsy. Unreal bike.
> 
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> Hi guys,
> About to collect my F8. Is it true its not 25mm compatible due to clearance?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure it can take 25 as sky rides the new wide dura ace wheels
Click to expand...


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## PinarelloRider

Does anyone have an answer on the clearance question? I'm a Clyde and have become very used to the ride of the 25mm Ardennes. Planned on moving these wheels over to my planned F8 this Fall. Thanks.


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## Donn12

can anyone compare the 65.1 to the f8...specifically does the f8 feel as solid? is it as smooth? when i bought the 65.1 I wanted a cervelo R5 but it felt brittle. I don't think I would want the F8 unless it felt just as smooth stiff and solid. I could never break the R5 but it felt Like I could.


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## OscarTheGreat

The clearance is fine for 25mm. I'm running Bora2 w conti comps 25mm.
It's very close shave. It's actually more to do with the Campy callipers than the frame itself. I believe Shimano clearance is a little more generous.


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## PinarelloRider

Thanks Oscar. I talked to my LBS and they confirmed I won't have an issue, even with Campy Record.


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## antihero77

im surprised that they never did a direct mount brake.


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## Cinelli 82220

A couple of bikes at the Tour have direct mounts front and back.
By "back" I mean on the seat stays where regular brakes go.
Pinarello probably did not want to do direct mount because only Shimano had direct mount when F8 was launched. Campagnolo have now copied the Shimano design so Pinarello may have direct mounts soon.


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## antihero77

spoke to my rep at pin. Said they never did direct mount brakes bc campy and sram dont have one just shimano.


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## Cinelli 82220

Tell your rep when Pina adds direct mounts I will buy one.


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## antihero77

that will be when campy and sram make one


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## Cinelli 82220

Europcar has Campagnolo ones at le Tour. 

Colnago and a few others had braze-on centre bolts back in the 70s. They are on some of his frame blueprints in his museum. Mechanics had to bend the springs to adjust them, so they didn't last long. The modern designs should be more practical.


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## antihero77

prob see it on the f9 then


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## crewman

One of the reason it does not have direct mount is because the bike was developed specifically for team SKY. The reason for the rear brake not being under the stays is team Sky did not like the problems of servicing. If you look at the rearstay junction at the top by the seat tube you will notice a small bumpout on the left side. Its there specifically for the Shimano rear brake. Its an aerodynamic detail to allow for less turbulence across the brake pull arm. 

I talked to the lead Jaguar engineer at the unveiling. The guy was giddy about how well they did on the aero improvements on the bike.


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## Donn12

I dint know what direct mount brake were before I read this....I don't think they are a must have but they do sound good


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## MMsRepBike

antihero77 said:


> spoke to my rep at pin. Said they never did direct mount brakes bc campy and sram dont have one just shimano.


That's because Shimano invented the direct mount brake. Trek was the first company to adopt the technology, Pinarello is slow to the game. It's a fairly new technology and requires quite a bit of retooling and re-design for bike companies. 

Similar to when Shimano invented the front derailleur or the rear derailleur. It takes time for companies to adopt the technology, fabricate and tool for it.

Trek bikes professionally are primarily not Shimano bikes, only one of their teams rides Shimano. So saying that Pina won't make a direct mount frame just because there isn't brakes yet from SRAM or Campy is nonsense if you ask me. I think Pina is just slow to the game and were already too far along with their 2015 lineup designs when the direct brake thing hit.


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## CLTracer

Another review by a Florida Dealer:
http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Pinarello-Dogma-F8-Review.html?soid=1102908923027&aid=BeM2jzUIRnc


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## merckxman

What do you mean by this? A particular version of the rear/front der? Certainly Shimano didn't invent them.


MMsRepBike said:


> Similar to when Shimano invented the front derailleur or the rear derailleur.


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## Cinelli 82220

MMsRepBike said:


> It's a fairly new technology and requires quite a bit of retooling and re-design for bike companies


Peugot were using direct mount Mafac brakes in the 1970s.

It would not be hard to add the mounts. But it would render the frame un-salable to Campagnolo or SRAM users.


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## satcomjets

*One of the most dissappointing frames I have ridden yet*

I have been in the bike trade for sometime - I am a cat 1 racer and a bike tester for some bike manufacturers. I purchased one of these frames from a shop in France where I live - its a shop which sponsors my team so I received a stunning deal. My requirements were; aero but not at the compromise of practicality (brakes next to BB shells), specificities on geometry and obviously some aesthetic ticks in the box. 

The Pin won over the Propel, new Foil, Tarmac and some other choices. 

I am taking it back to the dealer tomorrow, I have had incredible headset issues - apparently a known issue, and under load 380watts+ the flex in the frame combined with the lack of clearance in the rear stays is unforgivable. I have put nearly 2000km into my pin in 6 weeks - no racing - I am not racing this season - and I have never wanted or willed a bike to deliver to be so let down. 

It's not a great bike and I can understand why BC moved away from them to Cervelo. 

I have done most of my formative racing on a Venge. Which performed much better albeit I prefer the lower Geom of the Pin. 

If you are a lighter rider and don't produce big watts then it could work for you, on the upside the handling is very stable and accurate no fall away at the HT under speedy descents. The bottom bracket and rear triangle is of an immense disappointment. Avoid at all costs if you are in powerful 75kg + cat and for the love of god Pinarello sort the headset out!


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## Barts27

Sorry but I can't believe your story. The F8 is a great bike and I can't imagine that team sky would use a faulty product because they can ride every bike they want.
You are the first that is disappointed about the F8 so I assume that you have a faulty bike or your local bike shop made mistakes. I ride the Dogma 65.1 myself next to my Tarmac S-works sl4 and I really love the Dogma. I also realy love my S-works but the ride quality of the Dogma is special.
The 65.1 is simmilar to the F8 I suppose so I think that your comment on the F8 is really strange and If your test bike had some problems, you can't say the F8 is a bad bike. 
It is possible that you don't like the Dogma F8 but maybe you should check out another F8 and check out the setup of the bike and make another test ride.


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## satcomjets

Barts27 said:


> Sorry but I can't believe your story. The F8 is a great bike and I can't imagine that team sky would use a faulty product because then can ride every bike they want.
> You are the first that is disappointed about the F8 so I assume that you have a faulty bike or your local bike shop made mistakes. I ride the Dogma 65.1 myself next to my Tarmac S-works sl4 and I really love the Dogma. I also realy love my S-works but the ride quality of the Dogma is special.


\
Barts I fail to see why you don't believe but that's your call. British Cycling used to use Pinarello now they use Cervelo. I can verify my power data and I can show photos of my bike if need be. I am only recanting my experience and knowledge I have no reason to anything other than straight with my findings. If you are a light rider making climbers watts then I can see how you would love the bike, but if like me you are 191cm 83/4kgs and making big watts then this isn't the best bike in my experience. The clearance with a 25c tyre is not great in any circumstance and the torsional rigidity isn't as strong as I expected and not in the same cat as an SL4 or Venge. 

What are your experiences/height/power outputs?


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## Barts27

I am a strong sprinter. I am 90kg and 187cm. I have no problems with the Dogma 65.1. so that's why I am surprised by your opinion. I have ridden the Schwalbe One 25mm in the 65.1 and this didn't give any problems when the road was dry. In the wet some road dirt got in the way with the brakes so clearance wasn't that good. I use the Vittoria 24mm tires now and that works great. 
I used the Lightweight Meilenstein clinchers in my Dogma and some Bora tubes. 
Are you sure that the frame is the problem and not the wheels on the F8 you rode?

I am don't know my power outputs but I can sprint flat out above 60km/u. 

The reason why BC went to Cervelo has nothing to do with Pinarello but with money. Cervelo gave a better deal I suppose. If the Dogma F8 was not a good bike I am sure that team sky would race the 65.1.


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## satcomjets

Barts - tried with three wheelsets - a set of brand New Trek Aeolous 5's, and in this case yes I would concur that the issue was the wheels. Arguably the worst wheels I have ever used and needn't be as bad really let down by the Bontrager/DT hubs - I used them once gave them back - I used to work with Trek. The none drive-side bearing cover on the Aeolus is enormous taking up real-estate that could of been used for making the wheel stiffer. Too many companies are heavily focused on Aero in the wheelset business and forgoe data on torsional rigidity - you can have the most aero wheel in the world however if it contorts under power all that aero prowess is for nothing - rant over that's one for another time. 

Then I used a brand new set of Dura Ace C35 wheels - excellent wheelset, within 6 weeks the driveside freehub body bearings have been BBQ'd. Then the straw that broke the camels back today was in a 20min sub FTP test using an old benchmark wheel the Zipp 30 alu. In all tests the tyres were the consistent measure a Vredstien Fortezza Senso 25c. The clearance in the rear triangle is tight made all the tighter by having a lower than desired torsional rigidity.

BTW I specifically chose that array of wheels for the good spread of wheel rim depths - the Aeoulus having even fatter rim width than a 303 at 27mm if I recall correctly. The C35's more like 24mm - I may be wrong on that specific measure but I know that the three offer a good mix. 

The fact that Sky use the f8 added all the more to my disappointment - the choice of bike ridden by any pro team or rider isn't all down to money - certainly not at BC level.

I can put my headset and fork findings down to a fault - the rear of lower head of the fork has seen some significant wear actually showing signs of grated carbon when the frame was stripped - imagine my amazement. This I can forgive as a fault, however the rear triangle is simply not as good as other framesets I have tested/raced and used and a real let down! I


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## Barts27

Thanks for the feedback and your opinion on the F8. I probably have to make a test ride myself on the F8. I am wondering what the F8 owners have to say about it.
I was planning to change my 65.1 frameset for a F8, but I really like my 65.1 so I am not in a hurry. Besides that it took me a while to get used to the F8. I am not 100% fond of the aero look of the rear seatstays and the way they are placed on the seat tube. Anyway I saw some Dogma F8 bikes that looked really nice. ;-)


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## satcomjets

Here's mine








57.5, Dura Ace mechanical (didn't like the interface with Di2, chapeau Sram with Etap), ProVibe Stealth 140mm stem and stealth bars, stages PM


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## MMsRepBike

Guys...
I am a super racer.
I test bikes for manufacturers.
Guys...
I got the F8, of course for a really low price because of me, and guys...
It's a noodle.
The bottom bracket is bad.
The headset is bad.
Guys... I'm a super power sprinter, I know.
I can't believe the tour winner is a noodle guys.
Guys...
What's wrong?


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## satcomjets

Argh and up surfaces from the depths the unhealthy cynic.


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## satcomjets

The purpose of me passing my information was to provide a genuine sense of prospective not dick swing. It is all to easy when having handed over the best part of £7k to have to self justify and sell back to yourself the product that you you have bought and worked hard for. I offer my background information as it provides a back drop for my very brief overview of a bike which I have spent some time getting to know. 

I mention that I purchased my bike as I think that it is important to know for the afore mentioned reason. I am not having to ratify my purchase - I bought it from Patrick Beraud in Frejus 8 weeks ago, it is the shop that sponsors the Team I ride for, Mimosa Sprint Mandilieu. I am hands on involved in geometry and profile makeup at the moment for a leading UK Ti brand specifically there race machine and meeting it's torsional rigidity goals which we are benchmarking against Carbon with efbe. 

I offer an alternative sense of prospective on a bike which I now have extensive experience on in some of the best terrain you can ride. The difficulty with too many reviews read about the Dogma f8 or any other bike is that they are based upon singular and early 120 - 190km rides, not after an extensive period. After a single ride it's easy to bestow the virtues of a great experience. You only really get to know a bikes foibles by riding it over an extended period. Always look at reviews on the 'long term'. I have said that the torsional rigidity of the F8 was for me disappointing whilst the handling great, the clearance in the rear stays is very disappointing - you need be a cyclist of no proficiency to judge this as the camera can verify that stationary. Take it as you will. I hope that some people get some benefit from my advice - if you are sub 80k and not a large FTP watt output rider this will be a great bike, for a larger more powerful Rouleur/Sprinter it may not live up to expectations.


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## Barts27

Maybe you should try another set of tyres. Some tyres build in bigger than 25mm.


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## satcomjets

Barts - its a good call and was going to be my next exercise, I have some new spangled Spesh cotton tyres, banged them on my sons race bike at the weekend for him to test, but they came unseated at the back so I didn't want to risk it. Given the state of the rear of the fork crown the bike is going back anyways. The Vredsteins do come up big compared to a Conti, and certainly more volumeous (sp) than the Spesh turbo 24's. I'll let you know how I fair tomorrow after a visit to chez Beraud


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## satcomjets

satcomjets said:


> Barts - its a good call and was going to be my next exercise, I have some new spangled Spesh cotton tyres, banged them on my sons race bike at the weekend for him to test, but they came unseated at the back so I didn't want to risk it. Given the state of the rear of the fork crown the bike is going back anyways. The Vredsteins do come up big compared to a Conti, and certainly more volumeous (sp) than the Spesh turbo 24's. I'll let you know how I fair tomorrow after a visit to chez Beraud


OK the bike got deposited at the dealer, the 'known' issue with headsets was predominantly the 65.1 and it was a known issue as confirmed by Mr Pinarello France. My bike has been warrantied and I am going to get a new frame. It appears with the same issue.

In the rear triangle - I further tested the bike with 23c tyres and they were better but I could still under full load bring the bike to torsionally flex way too much. 

My evaluation of the bike is as follows in summary:

Good Points:
Great handling 
Aero Niceties that really work without sacrificing practicality 
Looks stunning
Headtube stiffness is ace the bike at the front end tracks really well on fast decents and out of sprint corners - especially when it is still, see below!

Bad Points
Technical issues with the headset
The front fork can catch wind deflection, especially when the wind is moderately to reasonably strong, this can be an issue on a windy decent of a col etc somethign I found myself mid turn having to adjust one too many times, the new onda fork simply isn't aero enough at some yaw angles! 
Rear tyre clearance - confirmed that a 25c tyre does not work in the rear triangle - this is a fail, a big one.

Really bad points:
The rear triangle isn't torsionally stiff enough for the high output/larger rider. This is poor. 
Also is the headset issue of the 65.1 an issue in the F8.......

Summary
Ok, look, I have never wanted to love a bike or wanted a bike to live up to the hype more than this, and it simply fell quite a long way short. Also note within yourself that a short term single day test is never enough to get to know a bike ala most magazines (no names Ben at Peleton ) Also I appreciate that having jazzed the thick end of £4k+ on a frame you will be selling it back to yourself all day long. If you are a climber or a lighter weight rider then I am sure that the handling and every other aspect of this bike will live up to your expectations. However Pinarello really haven't in the rear triangle catered for the sort of rigidity that a strong sprinter or rouleur would require - it doesn't live up to other bikes in this category, simple. The aero attacking niceties are great but if you are trying to get away to stay gone, your effort could easily get lost if you are dialling in a lot of power through via a large torso. Sorry Pinarello it's not good enough! 

My two penneth


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## mimason

thanks Andre Greipel for the review. We can rest assured knowing that this bike is not intended for gorillas. 

joke aside, i'm with you on the 25s being a close fit but I've seen wheels out of dish causing this too.

Regarding flex, Im 84kg, admittedly not a sprinter but can get in breaks and keeps some power down on the pedals and can't agree with you on the flexy rear. I feel that it's fine and feels like it stands me up out of the saddle. I ride a 54 but maybe the larger frames are not built to scale the load like my standard size.


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## satcomjets

mimason said:


> thanks Andre Greipel for the review. We can rest assured knowing that this bike is not intended for gorillas.
> 
> joke aside, i'm with you on the 25s being a close fit but I've seen wheels out of dish causing this too.
> 
> Regarding flex, Im 84kg, admittedly not a sprinter but can get in breaks and keeps some power down on the pedals and can't agree with you on the flexy rear. I feel that it's fine and feels like it stands me up out of the saddle. I ride a 54 but maybe the larger frames are not built to scale the load like my standard size.


He he I'm better looking than Griepel  

It's another slant on the other reviews being offered - hope someone finds of use. Go well.


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## MMsRepBike

Look at the noodle doing work.

Go ride your Chinese knock-off and stay off the boards.


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## satcomjets

MMsRep Bike - well done for a well constructed retort, very well thought out and put together - Viviani is a 70kg ride max. I bow to your genius. 

My Bike isn't a knock off:







Photo taken in the valley above Nice near Auron.


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## Cinelli 82220

satcomjets said:


> Argh and up surfaces from the depths the unhealthy cynic.


Another possibility is that some people disagree with you.

If I didn't like my Pina I would get something else. Talking about "dick swinging" is just insulting. I weigh over 80kg and I'm plenty strong, my primary sports are MMA and weightlifting. Dogma is fine by me.


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