# Bonds walks...



## lastchild (Jul 4, 2009)

Judge gives Bonds house arrest, then delays it - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

Well that was certainly worth it now wasn't it.
Chew on that, Dr.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

On the surface, at least, thats a bad sign for any Armstrong conviction.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

The Armstrong case and the Bonds case have nothing in common. 

Armstrong is the *target* of the investigation. Bonds was just a witness who chose to lie and obstruct. He was lucky to have a witness be willing to go to jail for him.....who is going to go to jail for Armstrong? At this point the Feds have more witnesses then they need. 

Bonds spent $15 million on his defense, He is a convicted felon, his legacy is destroyed.


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## rcharrette (Mar 27, 2007)

*Well*

I do believe it goes to show that the vast majority of the US population and the media could give to $hit'$ less about doping in sport's, IMO


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

$50 million in taxpayer money wasted so Barry can spend a month in his mansion. Of course this affects the prosecution in Armstrong's case, you better believe they are going to have to re-evaluate the value of pursuing Armstrong seeing as his legal team is likely to be just as brazen as Bonds'.


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## jms (Jan 9, 2008)

*I Disagree*



DrSmile said:


> $50 million in taxpayer money wasted so Barry can spend a month in his mansion. Of course this affects the prosecution in Armstrong's case, you better believe they are going to have to re-evaluate the value of pursuing Armstrong seeing as his legal team is likely to be just as brazen as Bonds'.


I disagree. The focus of the case wasn't Barry Bonds. There were more people involved and convicted of crimes in the Balco investigation than just Barry Bonds. 

And if you look ever so slightly beyond the surface, you might notice that because of that Balco investigation the entire culture of major league baseball is changing too: the current MVP, Ryan Braun [?] has just been nailed for doping by MLB, and that's not something that would have happen prior to Balco.


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## lastchild (Jul 4, 2009)

rcharrette said:


> I do believe it goes to show that the vast majority of the US population and the media could give to $hit'$ less about doping in sport's, IMO


Except, of course, for this weasel Falsetti and his self-loathing gang of 'in-the-know' cockroaches.
What a miserable sad vulgar little man you are.

I can't wait till Armstrong walks and I can tear you a new a-hole from here to timbuktu.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

DrSmile said:


> $50 million in taxpayer money wasted so Barry can spend a month in his mansion. Of course this affects the prosecution in Armstrong's case, you better believe they are going to have to re-evaluate the value of pursuing Armstrong seeing as his legal team is likely to be just as brazen as Bonds'.


They did not spend $50 million on the Bonds case. That figure was invented by Bond's legal team and represents the inflated cost associated with the entire BALCO investigation. That investigation. resulted in 13 convictions and the dismantling of a global PED network. 

The Bonds and Armstrong cases have nothing in common. Armstrong, and his buddies, are targets of the investigation. Bonds was just a witness who chose to lie and obstruct justice. His obstruction resulted in increased time and costs for the investigation. 

While some my not have a problem with somebody lying to the Fed's just because they are rich and famous the fact is Bonds spent 8 years of his life, $15 million, and is now a convicted felon. Hopefully others will see this waste and tell the truth to the Feds instead lying


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

lastchild said:


> Except, of course, for this weasel Falsetti and his self-loathing gang of 'in-the-know' cockroaches.
> What a miserable sad vulgar little man you are.
> 
> I can't wait till Armstrong walks and I can tear you a new a-hole from here to timbuktu.


As the myth crumbles it appears some are having trouble dealing with the grief. 

1. Denial and Isolation
*2. Anger*
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance

It appears one has moved from Denial to Anger

It is not my fault Armstrong is going to prison.


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

"His ticket to baseball’s Hall of Fame is in doubt." I certainly hope so.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Light sentence for Barry Bonds raises questions about government's years-long investigation - ESPN




> The investigation into Bonds and BALCO, the lab that produced and sold undetectable designer steroids, is* the most important investigation ever undertaken into the use of performance-enhancing drugs*. More than a dozen BALCO officials, scientists, coaches and athletes were convicted of felonies. The investigation prompted action in the Congress and ignited major changes in Major League Baseball's approach to these issues.
> 
> Home confinement for Bonds is not an accurate measure of the impact of the investigation. The real measure of the government's prodigious effort is its enormous impact on the sports industry and on the use of these drugs.





> *His sentence is not the result of any failures by federal agents and prosecutors*.
> 
> There is no doubt that Bonds used steroids, and there is no doubt that he lied to the grand jury about his use. The problem that led to the conviction on only one count and a deadlocked jury on three counts of perjury was not the quality of the work of the agents and prosecutors. The problem was the refusal of Bonds' personal trainer, Greg Anderson, to testify against him.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Moderators Note*



lastchild said:


> Except, of course, for this weasel Falsetti and his self-loathing gang of 'in-the-know' cockroaches.
> What a miserable sad vulgar little man you are.
> 
> I can't wait till Armstrong walks and I can tear you a new a-hole from here to timbuktu.


And that's a weeks posting vacation.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

DrSmile said:


> $50 million in taxpayer money wasted so Barry can spend a month in his mansion. Of course this affects the prosecution in Armstrong's case, you better believe they are going to have to re-evaluate the value of pursuing Armstrong seeing as his legal team is likely to be just as brazen as Bonds'.


Agree. Complete waste of time and money grandstanding. Ditto with the whole Clemens thing.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

NJBiker72 said:


> Agree. Complete waste of time and money grandstanding. Ditto with the whole Clemens thing.


The Feds were investigating BALCO, a company making and trafficking in PED's. They came to Barry and told him he was not a target, they gave him immunity, He chose to lie and impede the investigation. He then got his buddy Greg Anderson to do the same. 

Does the law not apply to all rich people, or just the rich people who can hit a baseball? Do rich people get a pass on all crime?


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> The Feds were investigating BALCO, a company making and trafficking in PED's. They came to Barry and told him he was not a target, they gave him immunity, He chose to lie and impede the investigation. He then got his buddy Greg Anderson to do the same.
> 
> Does the law not apply to all rich people, or just the rich people who can hit a baseball? Do rich people get a pass on all crime?


If Bonds was not famous the government would have never wasted our money on the witch hunt.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

NJBiker72 said:


> If Bonds was not famous the government would have never wasted our money on the witch hunt.


Nope, Obstruction of justice charges are common when someone does what Bonds did. It did not help him that his buddy Greg Anderson chose prison instead of testifying. The smear campaign against Novtizky also did not help. 

If you are angry about wasting money you should direct your anger at Bonds. If he and Anderson had told the truth it would have saved millions of $$


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Nope, Obstruction of justice charges are common when someone does what Bonds did. It did not help him that his buddy Greg Anderson chose prison instead of testifying. The smear campaign against Novtizky also did not help.
> 
> If you are angry about wasting money you should direct your anger at Bonds. If he and Anderson had told the truth it would have saved millions of $$


Really. Name someone that the government wasted as much on as they did pursuing the tramped up charges against Bonds.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

NJBiker72 said:


> Really. Name someone that the government wasted as much on as they did pursuing the tramped up charges against Bonds.


"Tramped up"? You do not think Barry lied? Really? 

The only reason he is not in Jail is because his buddy Greg Anderson refused to testify.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> "Tramped up"? You do not think Barry lied? Really?
> 
> The only reason he is not in Jail is because his buddy Greg Anderson refused to testify.


Apparently the jury wasn't so sure. The whole thing was a giant publicity stunt.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

NJBiker72 said:


> Apparently the jury wasn't so sure. The whole thing was a giant publicity stunt.


Yes they were. They convicted him. On the other charge they voted 11-1 to convict but one unstable juror held out. 

Do you really think that Bonds did not lie? Is it because he is rich or because he hits a ball good?


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## Chris-X (Aug 4, 2011)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> As the myth crumbles it appears some are having trouble dealing with the grief.
> 
> 1. Denial and Isolation
> *2. Anger*
> ...


Well, I wouldn't say fault but....:lol:


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Yes they were. They convicted him. On the other charge they voted 11-1 to convict but one unstable juror held out.
> 
> Do you really think that Bonds did not lie? Is it because he is rich or because he hits a ball good?


Frankly I don't care. But easy publicity for politicians.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

NJBiker72 said:


> Frankly I don't care. But easy publicity for politicians.


Really? Which politician used the Bonds case for publicity?


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Really? Which politician used the Bonds case for publicity?


Guess you didn't watch the silly Congressional hearings


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

NJBiker72 said:


> Guess you didn't watch the silly Congressional hearings


Guess you did not watch them either. 

Barry never testified, was never even called. Tom Davis thought having him there would be too much of a media circus.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

DrSmile said:


> $50 million in taxpayer money wasted so Barry can spend a month in his mansion. Of course this affects the prosecution in Armstrong's case, you better believe they are going to have to re-evaluate the value of pursuing Armstrong seeing as his legal team is likely to be just as brazen as Bonds'.


I think people took my above comments the wrong way. I'm all for going after Bonds and Armstrong. My point was that the judge needed to sentence him to some hard time, not this travesty of justice. It sets a bad precedent and that is why I think the prosecutor in Armstrong's case now has to think twice before proceeding. I realize the charge is different, but the context here is too similar for one case not to affect the other.


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## worst_shot_ever (Jul 27, 2009)

Exactly. People should be critical of the judge who sanctioned obstruction of a grand jury with a probationary sentence, not the prosecution for charging someone who thinks he is entitled to mislead the grand jury. Many others have been charged with obstruction for lying to a grand jury, some famous, most not. The legal process depends on truthful testimony when a witness is immunized. Bonds should have received a few months in jail.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

OK, let me put it this way- Bonds' reputation is shot. He won't get into the Hall of Fame, he's being written out of the record books, and his earning ability from this day forward is more or less minimal. Granted, he still has a lot of money, and if he doesn't blow it all on stupid stuff he'll live a very comfortable life.

The law doesn't allow for financial penalties that would put a dent in his fortune. The court case probably did far more damage in legal fees. He isn't being bankrupted by this one, unless he goes completely stupid.

Putting him in jail for a few months? He'd go to a minimum-security prison, and cost the taxpayers far more than he's worth. In the end, it wouldn't be a fair punishment for anything he did, he wouldn't learn anything, and he would still have his money when he got out. The only real punishment he will get is that he won't be welcomed in Cooperstown. For a guy that wrapped his whole being around baseball, maybe that's worse than jail.

He's a cheat. Everyone knows it, but few baseball fans care other than he got caught and put baseball in a bad light. Just like in football, they want to see freakish monstrosities doing impossible things. As long as the fans show no inclination to stop watching (doping actually helped MLB's bottom line significantly), the leagues will only pay lip service to clean sports.


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## Chris-X (Aug 4, 2011)

*Wishful thinking?*



Alaska Mike said:


> OK, let me put it this way- Bonds' reputation is shot. He *won't get into the Hall of Fame, he's being written out of the record books*, and his earning ability from this day forward is more or less minimal. Granted, he still has a lot of money, and if he doesn't blow it all on stupid stuff he'll live a very comfortable life.


Is he being written out of the record books? Is this conviction enough to keep him out of the HOF?


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Chris-X said:


> Is he being written out of the record books? Is this conviction enough to keep him out of the HOF?


It could be. For the HOF you need 75%, I don't think he has that....maybe in 20 years. 

As for the record books, I think there is a notation in the HOF that "These records were made in the period era" Etc.


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## Chris-X (Aug 4, 2011)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> It could be. For the HOF you need 75%, I don't think he has that....maybe in 20 years.
> 
> As for the record books, I think there is a notation in the HOF that "These records were made in the period era" Etc.


I guess it's poetic justice. Kind of crazy that the holder of 2 of the biggest records in the game won't be honored. His absence will speak volumes. 

Kind of the way another sport will be unless it is proactive regarding record holding frauds.

I love the way the players talk around the problem and many of the fans are apologists for it..


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

MLB has a long memory. Just ask Pete Rose.

HOF voters vow to stick to their convictions - New York Daily News

He may keep his records, but will likely end up with an asterix. The problem they would have with striking his name is the same one cycling faces- when the field is doped, who do you give the award to? A lot of those "never tested positive" athletes are viewed with more than a bit of suspicion.

MLB will reach the same point that cycling is at today. The dopers will figure out where the levels are for detection, and push the boundaries as much as they can without getting caught. Thats about a level a playing field as you can get today.

Now, can we do something about the NFL?


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## C6Rider (Nov 15, 2008)

*and another "sport"*

[QUOTE
Now, can we do something about the NFL?[/QUOTE]

and maybe something needs to be done with MMA.


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## a_avery007 (Jul 1, 2008)

*different case*



Alaska Mike said:


> MLB has a long memory. Just ask Pete Rose.
> 
> HOF voters vow to stick to their convictions - New York Daily News
> 
> ...


Rose bet in his own sport, and on his own team.

Bonds will be a second ballot shoe in..


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

a_avery007 said:


> Rose bet in his own sport, and on his own team.
> 
> Bonds will be a second ballot shoe in..


On his team raises questions.


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## Chris-X (Aug 4, 2011)

a_avery007 said:


> Rose bet in his own sport, and on his own team.
> 
> Bonds will be a second ballot shoe in..


Rose never bet against the Reds though, did he?

I think you're right on Bonds. If he doesn't get in on the second ballot I think that's more a sign of vindictiveness by the sportswriters who are getting their revenge for Bonds being a jerk.

Bonds was a great player. Just not Hank Aarron, Willie Mays, Babe Ruth great, and he shouldn't have those records. He should barely be a 500 HR hitter.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

Mark McGwire is still waiting for even 25% of the vote after 5 years, and his battle with Sosa was arguably what rescued baseball.


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## a_avery007 (Jul 1, 2008)

*that is what*



Chris-X said:


> Rose never bet against the Reds though, did he?
> 
> I think you're right on Bonds. If he doesn't get in on the second ballot I think that's more a sign of vindictiveness by the sportswriters who are getting their revenge for Bonds being a jerk.
> 
> Bonds was a great player. Just not Hank Aarron, Willie Mays, Babe Ruth great, and he shouldn't have those records. He should barely be a 500 HR hitter.


the public thinks!
of course a gambling addict bet against his team, why do you think the older commish would never relent on his sentence??

just like why mj wanted to play crappy baseball?


he will get in...


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## tonyzackery (Jan 11, 2007)

So, if/when Armstrong is convicted of obstructing the course of justice (compelling others to lie, his own lies, bribery, etc...), how much time should he receive? 

How much time does Clemens deserve if/when he's convicted of the same offense as Bonds at his new trial? His stumblebum attorneys purposedly causing the first mistrial.


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## chickenfried (Sep 5, 2007)

I don't think Rose bet against his team. That info would've came out long ago so he'd have less sympathy from the public. Rose belongs in the HOF more than bonds.


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## tonyzackery (Jan 11, 2007)

Quite frequently people will only believe what they want.
To believe Pete Rose didn't bet against the Reds is like still believing in the Tooth Fairy.
You really can't prove there isn't really one - now can you?
So Pete lied for years and years about even betting on baseball, and now you believe him because he said he didn't bet against the Reds. Uhh, okay.

Pete belongs in the HOF more than Bonds?? Uhh, okay. And more than McGwire, Sosa, Clemens, Palmeiro, etc...And McGwire even has a job in baseball - what a royal joke! Guess his cheating has been excused to quite a considerable degree. Probably excused enough to get him in HOF before Petey.


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## a_avery007 (Jul 1, 2008)

this whole waste of taxpayers money is the total joke.

very few in society even care about this fiasco...

LA will do about 0 time...
just my lousy opinion...


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## tonyzackery (Jan 11, 2007)

^Interesting how you think you can comment for most in society in thinking that "very few" care about a cheater who's defrauded every taxpayer in the US to the tune of multi-millions of dollars. Pretty sad though, if many don't care about his filthy ways coercion and fraud.

The 'Cult of Personality' has already told us some cheaters can basically get away with murder as long as they play their public relations correctly. Never will cease to amaze me the blindeye people will turn to obvious discretions committed by individuals they an affinity for, and how they will try to destroy with all their might individuals they dislike. Further the fact that there's an obvious 800lb gorilla sitting in the room that no one wants to acknowledge.

BB not getting any time will serve LA and Roger Clemens very well.


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## a_avery007 (Jul 1, 2008)

tonyzackery said:


> ^Interesting how you think you can comment for most in society in thinking that "very few" care about a cheater who's defrauded every taxpayer in the US to the tune of multi-millions of dollars. Pretty sad though, if many don't care about his filthy ways coercion and fraud.
> 
> yeah, am pretty sad that people have been worked over in their pensions, (Energy, Airline, Telecom, and Finance Companies have been de-regulared to the point of oblivion) a la Enron, ALL the Airlines, MCI Worldcom, the global bankers have just worked over johnny world middle class, all our jobs have been shipped overseas with nary a wimper, corporations have more rights than normal citizens,the lawyers play everyone both ways, the US military has been in the middle East eating taxpayer money for over 20 years, think trillions...
> 
> doping is not even on the radar mate......


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## tonyzackery (Jan 11, 2007)

^ A 'cheater's apologist'. Novel idea to just put LA's fraud into world-wide context to make it seem small and inconsequential in comparison. Solves any potential cognitive dissonance one may encounter. Very novel idead indeed. Good on you. Guess you can just easy explain away why you probably cheat on your taxes too, cheat on your wife, why your kids cheat, etc...Good on you again...

Heck, unless you've murdered someone you really don't deserve any jail time. Nice, utopian thought right there. Thanks.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

a_avery007 said:


> yeah, am pretty sad that people have been worked over in their pensions, (Energy, Airline, Telecom, and Finance Companies have been de-regulared to the point of oblivion) a la Enron, ALL the Airlines, MCI Worldcom, the global bankers have just worked over johnny world middle class, all our jobs have been shipped overseas with nary a wimper, corporations have more rights than normal citizens,the lawyers play everyone both ways, the US military has been in the middle East eating taxpayer money for over 20 years, think trillions...
> 
> doping is not even on the radar mate......


How about tax evasion? Money laundering? Are these ok?


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## a_avery007 (Jul 1, 2008)

ms tony save the attacks for little girls; which of course the implication is directly stated clearly here.
your condenscension is telling, and illustrates the mentality of an internet hero...

away with you....


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

a_avery007 said:


> ms tony save the attacks for little girls; which of course the implication is directly stated clearly here.
> your condenscension is telling, and illustrates the mentality of an internet hero...
> 
> away with you....


Nice insults

At what point is it OK for the Government to investigate a crime? Is their a specific threshold? Is the threshold the same for everyone or is it higher for rich people who can hit a ball or ride a bike fast?


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## a_avery007 (Jul 1, 2008)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Nice insults
> 
> and his insulting my wife, family, me is ok.
> 
> f to u too...punk


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## tonyzackery (Jan 11, 2007)

a_avery007 said:


> ms tony save the attacks for little girls; which of course the implication is directly stated clearly here.
> your condenscension is telling, and illustrates the mentality of an internet hero...
> 
> away with you....


LOL! Pipe down, anonomous internet tough guy. You take yourself too seriously.
Try giving your ethics, or lack thereof, a little more contemplation.:wink5:


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

a_avery007 said:


> f to u too...punk


So back on topic, 

At what point is it OK for the Government to investigate a crime? Is there a specific threshold? Is the threshold the same for everyone or is it higher for rich people who can hit a ball or ride a bike fast?


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## tonyzackery (Jan 11, 2007)

I'm interested in hearing from those who've weighed in on Bonds' punishment - what does Clemens and LA deserve in the way of punishment for their transgressions if/when they're convicted (hypothetically speaking, of course).


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## Chris-X (Aug 4, 2011)

a_avery007 said:


> yeah, am pretty sad that people have been worked over in their pensions, (Energy, Airline, Telecom, and Finance Companies have been de-regulared to the point of oblivion) a la Enron, ALL the Airlines, MCI Worldcom, the global bankers have just worked over johnny world middle class, all our jobs have been shipped overseas with nary a wimper, corporations have more rights than normal citizens,the lawyers play everyone both ways, the US military has been in the middle East eating taxpayer money for over 20 years, think trillions...
> 
> doping is not even on the radar mate......


but prosecuting and sanctioning Armstrong doesn't preclude prosecuting others who are guilty of greater and lesser crimes.

You've advanced a false choice.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

tonyzackery said:


> I'm interested in hearing from those who've weighed in on Bonds' punishment - what does Clemens and LA deserve in the way of punishment for their transgressions if/when they're convicted (hypothetically speaking, of course).


I would wait until charges are filed on LA. When the mistrial was declared the Clemens case the judge said



> "If (Clemens) is convicted," Reggie Walton said, "knowing how I sentence, he goes to jail


Most took this as a message to Clemens that he should really start working on a plea deal. The Bonds case was by far the weakest because of Anderson. The Clemens case is far stronger....the Armstrong case is a slam dunk. 

Give the breadth of the Armstrong investigation the three cases have little in come with each other, besides they were all focused on athletes.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Moderators Note*

Why dont you both take some time and contemplate your actions during your posting vacations.


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