# Pro cycling is transforming from a sports competition into a credibility contest



## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

Indeed, it often seems that pro cycling is transforming from a sports competition into a credibility contest
Read more at Anti-doping: Is the cure worse than the disease? - VeloNews.com

Interesting article. Cheating is part of the sport or rather cheating is part of every sport... What do you all think?

Another interesting bit

Anti-doping enthusiasts might argue that the pro-doping culture of cycling has now been replaced by a healthier anti-doping culture. Yet, the cyclists have not really slowed down that much, competitive pressures on their bodies and minds have not been reduced, and their livelihood is still precariously dependent upon their day-to-day racing performance.

Full article


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

I was a little surprised to read a piece by a couple of academics which comes off as a basic whine fest about the injustices inflicted on poor little dopers. Any suggestions for how to effectively reform the sport? Any positive content at all? No.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

Crap article, spews lame talking points
-Armstrong witch hunt!
-why doesn't Merckx get his title stripped? (A: he never signed the WADA Code)
-Is cycling really clean today?!?

There are legit issues about the fight on doping. How to balance rights and privacy with protecting clean riders (athletes). Do ever increasing draconian punishments work? Can you have clean sports when general culture is becoming more drug soaked? Addressing corruption in governing bodies. Etc...

This article doesn't address them in a neutral way, instead relying on rhetorical flourish and setting up false comparisons.


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

I still feel like a no-holds-barred, anything-goes "unlimited" class would be pretty okay for pro cycling. Give the teams free reign; juice their balls off, have them riding crazy aerodynamic/technological bikes, and pull out all the other stops. Sure, you'd keep the traditional class with no doping/fun allowed, but at least with unlimiteds, you could let those who want to explore that realm.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

old_fuji said:


> I still feel like a no-holds-barred, anything-goes "unlimited" class would be pretty okay for pro cycling. Give the teams free reign; *juice their balls off, *have them riding crazy aerodynamic/technological bikes, and pull out all the other stops. Sure, you'd keep the traditional class with no doping/fun allowed, but at least with unlimiteds, you could let those who want to explore that realm.


Could literally happen...


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

old_fuji said:


> I still feel like a no-holds-barred, anything-goes "unlimited" class would be pretty okay for pro cycling. Give the teams free reign; juice their balls off, have them riding crazy aerodynamic/technological bikes, and pull out all the other stops. Sure, you'd keep the traditional class with no doping/fun allowed, but at least with unlimiteds, you could let those who want to explore that realm.


more or less the bend category?


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## OldChipper (May 15, 2011)

Bluenote said:


> Crap article, spews lame talking points
> -Armstrong witch hunt!
> -why doesn't Merckx get his title stripped? (A: he never signed the WADA Code)
> -Is cycling really clean today?!?
> ...


From the VeloNews introduction: "...it is often much easier today for previously fawning fans or journalists to “pile on” to Lance Armstrong and his compatriots, than it is to step back and objectively look at the underlying situation and current approaches."

Like it or not, the Lance-hunt bears many characteristics of a witch-hunt. As I've said many times before, being a witch-hunt and him being guilty are NOT mutually exclusive. He is/was guilty but could also have been unfairly singled out. As the article says, why were many given amnesty, why weren't other known modern-era dopers stripped of all their titles? Witch hunt QED. Nothing, not even USADA's "reasoned" decision, will ever convince me that all the other teams weren't doing within 90% +/- exactly what Postal etc. were doing. Doesn't make it right, just makes it real. Don't bring a knife to a gun fight.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

careful chipper you'll be accused of being a fan-boy

but your point is well put

and I bet cycling is cleaner than most pro sports where they have players unions


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## misterwaterfallin (Sep 14, 2012)

atpjunkie said:


> players unions


Bingo. Cycling has been the wild west of both drug use and drug testing. No other league in the world has used the same tools that the UCI uses IE passport ect. The riders are subject to whatever they wish, which is usually a good thing, but the NFL for example gets to bargain on their drug testing, and the limits inside those could be positives.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

More to the point, cycling has been unfairly singled out by the WADA.

None of the Jamaican track/field team was tested within 6 months of the last Olympics. No Kenyan marathoner has been tested out of competition - ever. Cyclists are tested more than the next most tested sport by several times. 

Ball sports aren't even worth discussing. Doping is necessary and encouraged. Testing is a ruse and the fans don't care as long as the show is good.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

OldChipper said:


> Nothing, not even USADA's "reasoned" decision, will ever convince me that all the other teams weren't doing within 90% +/- exactly what Postal etc. were doing.


What other teams were doing transfusions in 2000? 

What other teams had a team owner and a DS managing millions of dollars of personal funds for the head of the UCI? 

Did you think Ullrich was singled out when the UCI pursued him for 6 years after he retired, 2 CAS appeals.....at the same time they actively worked to kill the USADA investigation?


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

davidka said:


> More to the point, cycling has been unfairly singled out by the WADA.
> 
> None of the Jamaican track/field team was tested within 6 months of the last Olympics. No Kenyan marathoner has been tested out of competition - ever.


This is not WADA but the local ADA. Jamaica's is a joke. Kenya as well. USADA, UKAD, most of western Europe, test their track and field athletes often. The most tested athlete for the 1st quarter of this year by USADA was Micheal Phelps


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> This is not WADA but the local ADA. Jamaica's is a joke. Kenya as well. USADA, UKAD, most of western Europe, test their track and field athletes often. The most tested athlete for the 1st quarter of this year by USADA was Micheal Phelps


Certainly a fair point but shouldn't a nation's participation in IOC and WADA require they meet acceptable testing frequency standards? Kenya has been the dominant nation in distance running for 20+ years. If they can't test, that shouldn't be allowed into the Olympics.


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## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> The most tested athlete for the 1st quarter of this year by USADA was Micheal Phelps


Phelps would be another feather in their cap. Bet some sycophant (not right word; right idea; too tired to think of better term) would love to build their career on knocking Phelps off his podiums.


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

I enjoy professional cycling to a greater degree if I think that the riders are not doping so for me keep the testing. Refine it, improve it and develop fair and uniform penalties for those that are caught. Same for the other sports. Since the UCI was allegedly paid off to cover up a positive test for Lance I think that people in those positions should have a yearly accounting of their finances to determine if they are crooked. 

I think that the racers should have a voice in the type of testing and the sanctions handed out.


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

I read an article on Yahoo about Phelps and they said that to be re-instated he had to undergo 6 months of testing. They said it would be the same for others in his position. So I suppose he was tested a lot. However the Olympics for me will be interesting to see how Phelps makes out this time. Since I was a High School swimmer I look forward to those types of events including water polo. I would like to see more Velodrome racing but I seem to miss most of it each time around.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

davidka said:


> Certainly a fair point but shouldn't a nation's participation in IOC and WADA require they meet acceptable testing frequency standards? Kenya has been the dominant nation in distance running for 20+ years. If they can't test, that shouldn't be allowed into the Olympics.


I agree, they should not. The IOC has threatened Jamaica already with this.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

BikeLayne said:


> I read an article on Yahoo about Phelps and they said that to be re-instated he had to undergo 6 months of testing. They said it would be the same for others in his position. So I suppose he was tested a lot. However the Olympics for me will be interesting to see how Phelps makes out this time. Since I was a High School swimmer I look forward to those types of events including water polo. I would like to see more Velodrome racing but I seem to miss most of it each time around.


Actually, his undergoing testing had nothing to do with his suspension for being pictured taking bong hits. That suspension happened long before London 2012. He "retired" after those Olympics, and wasn't tested thereafter. Swimming's governing board requires that all swimmers returning to international competition after a lay-off undergo 9 months of testing before their eligibility is restored. He didn't even test positive for THC. The US swimming federation suspended him for 3 months based only on the picture. 

Also, in addition to the marijuana thing, didn't he also get arrested for DUI once? So, no surprise that he's been tested more than others. Age is also catching up to him, which might give him more of an incentive to use the real PEDs.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

mpre53 said:


> Actually, his undergoing testing had nothing to do with his suspension for being pictured taking bong hits. That suspension happened long before London 2012. He "retired" after those Olympics, and wasn't tested thereafter. Swimming's governing board requires that all swimmers returning to international competition after a lay-off undergo 9 months of testing before their eligibility is restored. He didn't even test positive for THC. The US swimming federation suspended him for 3 months based only on the picture.
> 
> Also, in addition to the marijuana thing, didn't he also get arrested for DUI once? So, no surprise that he's been tested more than others. Age is also catching up to him, which might give him more of an incentive to use the real PEDs.


why should a DUI provide more testing in a sports setting?


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

mpre53 said:


> Actually, his undergoing testing had nothing to do with his suspension for being pictured taking bong hits. That suspension happened long before London 2012. He "retired" after those Olympics, and wasn't tested thereafter. Swimming's governing board requires that all swimmers returning to international competition after a lay-off undergo 9 months of testing before their eligibility is restored. He didn't even test positive for THC. The US swimming federation suspended him for 3 months based only on the picture.
> 
> Also, in addition to the marijuana thing, didn't he also get arrested for DUI once? So, no surprise that he's been tested more than others. Age is also catching up to him, which might give him more of an incentive to use the real PEDs.


I was just talking about being re-instated. I did not know about a DUI. I remember when he was photographed with the bong but did not know he was in trouble for that. I just laughed at what an idiot he is to get photographed with that thing in his mouth. . But if it violates rules for international competition I would think the photo would be good enough to sanction him. However I suppose he is passing his testing these days as he is competing again and I think he is doing all right so far.

When they test athletes are they also testing them for alcohol, marijuana and that type of thing also?


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

I just saw on the news that Michael Phelps just got his 2nd DUI. Not sure how that impacts his swimming career but it sounds like he deserves harsh treatment in court. As far as I am concerned I would rather somebody else represented the USA at the next Olympics.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

BikeLayne said:


> I just saw on the news that Michael Phelps just got his 2nd DUI. Not sure how that impacts his swimming career but it sounds like he deserves harsh treatment in court. As far as I am concerned I would rather somebody else represented the USA at the next Olympics.


The previous was age 19. It's been ten years so the old arrest is pretty stale. It may not be prior-able. And right now it is just an arrest. I do not know the details but we do know there has not been a conviction.

That said,being almost thirty and landing a second DUI arrest could be indicative of a drinking problem.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Local Hero said:


> The previous was age 19. It's been ten years so the old arrest is pretty stale. It may not be prior-able. And right now it is just an arrest. I do not know the details but we do know there has not been a conviction.


Just checked Maryland law. 2nd DUI is seen as a subsequent offense if it happens within 5 years of the first. 

*To be charged with a subsequent DUI, your prior conviction must have occurred within the past five years. *Maryland DUI Second Offense


Some states (California) are less forgiving/forgetting with a 10 year SOL. 





> That said,being almost thirty and landing a second DUI arrest could be indicative of a drinking problem.


Still this.


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

Sounds like Phelps will probably be ok on the DUI thing. Just a check and an apology and off to the bar for a few beers. We will just have to wait and see what happens if anything with the Olympic committee.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

BikeLayne said:


> When they test athletes are they also testing them for alcohol, marijuana and that type of thing also?


They test for any prohibited substances. Most recreational drugs are banned. Including marijuana. Alcohol isn't, but chronic abuse of alcohol as evidenced by multiple alcohol-related brushes with the law might warrant greater scrutiny. It's not always the case that someone who abuses alcohol also may used banned recreational drugs, but it may be indicative of a general substance abuse problem.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

mpre53 said:


> They test for any prohibited substances. Most recreational drugs are banned. Including marijuana. Alcohol isn't, but chronic abuse of alcohol as evidenced by multiple alcohol-related brushes with the law might warrant greater scrutiny. It's not always the case that someone who abuses alcohol also may used banned recreational drugs, but it may be indicative of a general substance abuse problem.


it's a lot less clear than that. some recreational drugs are only banned during competition. As Tom Boonen nicely illustrated some years back. 
Same goes for weed (which has a threshold that is reasonably high by now. no pun intended.)


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## Horze (Mar 12, 2013)

Everything is a credibility contest when it comes down to it. It all tends to hinge if you're likable in the first place.
F' objectivity. There is no sanity or truth in much of anything.
People like to think that they are smart and know the ramifications of their decisions/judgements. No, they are anything but.

Come to think of it, sport is quite crudely conducted. It is considerably less objective than it's made out to be, in that there's issues with consistency. Considerable.


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