# How to pedal w/ clipless pedals



## COpedaler (Sep 9, 2009)

I have now been out on two rides with my clipless pedals. Getting use to clipping in and stepping out was easy. My question is how does one pedal? I realize the benefit is to be able to provide power on the up stroke as well as the down stoke. The problem is when I focus on "pulling up" with one leg, I forget about pushing down with the other leg. And yes I can't pat my head and rub my stomach at the same time. Should I just pedal and forget about it? I want to be more efficient with respects to pedaling. Isn't that the purpose of clipless pedals? Also, when I lift up on the up stoke, I feel my foot is pulling out of the shoe slightly. My shoe is snug on my foot. Do I just need to get use to this feeling. BTW I am using SPD pedals.

Cheers


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## tober1 (Feb 6, 2009)

I heard something recently that was pretty helpful. 
Try thinking about the cranks as a tea towel. Instead of pushing and pulling up, think about the entire stroke. Almost as though you're pulling each end away from the other to keep the towel taught. It works for me, and once you get it down you can really get a nice rhythm going. 

Furst.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

*Just pedal*



> Should I just pedal and forget about it?


You said it.

Try to move your legs in circles, and push down hard in the front. And work on pedaling at higher cadences.


> I realize the benefit is to be able to provide power on the up stroke as well as the down stoke.


A common misconception. Nobody really pulls up, except sometimes briefly at low cadences. What a good pedaler does is push down less on the upstroke, unweighting a little. Clipless pedals, like toeclips and straps, allow you to do that while still reliably keeping your foot in place on the pedals. With no attachment the foot tends to move around if you unweight, especially at high cadences.

So just pedal; try to be smooth, and work on higher cadences.


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## Jeepster82 (Mar 11, 2009)

*Pedal circles*

Yep its not really about pulling up with your foot, more like a smooth unweight of your up stroke leg. Try not to just mash one leg down and then the other. 

You want to smoothly spin the crank around in a circle. 

If its just mash down mash down it's like pedaling boxes. Others will argue that saying since its a fixed point you will alwayse be doing a circle. 

P.S. Pedal Mashing is not alwayse a bad thing.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

*Torque vs Crank Angle*

here's a chart of "applied torque to cranks" vs "crank angle" that has been periodically referenced on the forum.

source:
Determinants of elite endurance cycling performance, Coyle et al, Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise 23(93)-107, 1991

per article, data is based on _15 elite Cat 1/2 TT cyclists_.

The very best cyclists, simply "unweight" the upstroke leg, so the downstroke leg is applying its full force to keeping the bike moving forward. In fact, the highest performing cyclists (group 1) do not always fully unweight the upstroke leg -- the torque goes very slightly negative, at times.

Caveats: sample size only 15; training/racing methods have changed in the last 20 yrs.

As a beginner racer, after fatigue has set in, I still find it very hard to consistently unweight the upstroke leg ... I think it takes a lot of practice for this to become 'automatic'.

This is where a power meter might help. Heart Rate and Perceived Effort could remain the same, yet Power Meter might show different outputs depending on cycling style. But since I have not actually trained with power, take this comment with grain of salt ;-) The gifted cyclists will still prevail, without any fancy expensive instruments ;-)


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

*More ...*

My previous chart and post, is based on TT , where a constant high power output is required.

In an out-of-saddle sprint, you are pulling up hard on the upstroke leg. I would guess an attack on any terrain, would be similar ... 

But who could remember? One of my cycling partners says "I_f you can still do simple arithmetic, you're not riding hard enough!"_ 
;-)


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## roadfix (Jun 20, 2006)

Just imagine scraping your feet on a doormat at the bottom of each pedal stroke. Everyone knows how to do that. No need to pull up.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

As said above, nobody ever pulls up. I suggest that you pedal at a very slow rate - maybe 30-40 rpm. While doing this practice "wiping the mud off" as roadfix suggested. You might also try pushing your knee toward the handlebar. As you're doing this at low pedaling speeds you might find that the "pushing down" part happens automatically, or almost automatically. 

Gradually increase your pedaling speed trying to relax, yet concentrate on wiping mud and kneeing the handlebar. It's especially important, and easier to concentrate, when on hills and when accelerating. In those two situations you'll benefit from the new technique most as well.


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## COpedaler (Sep 9, 2009)

Thanks for all of the advise. This all makes much more sense now. That pulling up thing was driving me crazy. I knew I was putting too much thought into it.


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## COpedaler (Sep 9, 2009)

Several of you have stated to try pedaling at a higher cadence. What do you consider a higher cadence. I try to maintain 80 RPM.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

COpedaler said:


> Several of you have stated to try pedaling at a higher cadence. What do you consider a higher cadence. I try to maintain 80 RPM.


For a variety of reasons, cadence (or more accurately, the range a rider is in the majority of time) varies from rider to rider, so what I may consider 'higher cadence', you may not. But IME if you're maintaining a cadence of 80 or higher, you're at least avoiding undue stress on your knees. And trust me, that's one thing you want to continue to do.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

PJ352 said:


> For a variety of reasons, cadence (or more accurately, the range a rider is in the majority of time) varies from rider to rider


Absolutely. And for possible future use, keep in mind that higher and higher power outputs go together with higher and higher cadences. For example, a track sprinter putting out a mind-boggling 2000 watts of peak power does that with an equally mind-boggling cadence of 180 or so.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

wim said:


> Absolutely. And for possible future use, keep in mind that higher and higher power outputs go together with higher and higher cadences. For example, a track sprinter putting out a mind-boggling 2000 watts of peak power does that with an equally mind-boggling cadence of 180 or so.


Yup ...
*Power = Torque (force) x RPM (cadence)* ...
whether it's car engines or cyclists.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

COpedaler said:


> Several of you have stated to try pedaling at a higher cadence. What do you consider a higher cadence. I try to maintain 80 RPM.


You'll get answers all over the place ... no "absolute" correct answer.

Casual or recreational cycling, cadences are typically lower (65-75).

In a time trial, crit, or hard workout on flat-ish terrain, I am usually in the higher end of the 85-95 range. Road race varies, depending on the terrain.

On steeper hill climbs (8+ %) , many if not most cyclists have a natural tendency to pedal slower 65-75. However, I think those who have the gearing and strength to maintain 80+, tend to be stronger on climbs. 

High cadence on hills demands a strong, overall cardio/lung capability, or vO2 capability. Those who have genetically better capability and training for higher vO2, will excel at hill climbing, IMHO. Those who don't, have to grind it out with higher leg muscle strength and lower cadence. Seems to me, the high cadence & high vO2 guys have the edge on hill climbing.

Velodrome training & riding tends to demand even higher cadences: 95+


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## MCF (Oct 12, 2006)

90-100 rpm is a good goal, but above 80 is ok. I am a big guy, but tend to be able to maintain power speed much better at 95-100rpm.


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## Jeepster82 (Mar 11, 2009)

Personally I keep a cadence of around 95-105 average for the length of a ride. There are times where I slow it down. Going down hill I'll up my gear and just putt along, or when I have a wonderfull West Texas tail wind. 

I don't know if there is an Ideal cadence, but most coaches will try to get their members to up there cadence by about 5-10% a year. I think Chris Carmichael said that.


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