# Crotch numbness



## Joemero

Without going into too many details, after a 41m ride yesterday I got home and noticed my "area" was quite numb, and even as of this morning it's still noticeably numb. This has not happened to me before since I started riding since July. I've increased my pace and endurance quite a bit, but also switched saddles recently from a stock Bontrager on my Trek 2.1 to a Selle Italia SLR Kit Carbon without cutout. I wonder of it's the saddle....is this something your body gets used to? Any way to prevent this? I plan on going on longer and longer rides. Also, I use Pearl Izumi shorts with a pretty good chamois.


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## MR_GRUMPY

a) Ride more
b) Stand more often
c) Ride more


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## Andrea138

My S.O. was having issues with long rides & numbness- especially if the rides involved some climbing. He switched to the Selle SMP Glider and hasn't had numbness since. They are expensive saddles, but the resale for them on EBAY is great, so if it doesn't work out, you won't be stuck with a useless $220 saddle.


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## Salsa_Lover

You need a cutout saddle.

I'll share my story with you.

I have been riding for around a decade now, allways used a fizik pavé, didn't had numbness but I did have seat pain and disconfort. I chose to "man-up" and stand the pain like a real man.

About at the same time I started riding more often ( 4 times per week minimum ), I had also a very active sexual life with different partners. So I got an STD. It was treated and supposedly was healed.

But after that I started noticing constant soreness and an itchy sensation on my sex, sometimes I felt like a soft pain that kicked me, It was not hard, but you could just noticed like a pin or some soft electric shock inside.

I went to the doctor many times during that period, he told me allways that I was healthy, But that those were probably side effects of that STD, so I insisted that he made more tests to see if I had probably another different one, with no success, all tests were negative, I was in perfect health, but the annoyances continued, my doctor simply assumed that I was probably hypochondriac and told me not to worry about, and time went on.

One year I could not do much cycling because of work issues and so, and then I started again to do it, my sex started to go numb while riding and then after those same pains that I described were more intense, toghether with a general sickness feeling.

I went to an Urologist and he made tests and found out that I had a chronic prostatitis, very probably caused by the saddle and my stubborness of keep riding no matter the pain and discomfort.

I had that for many years and simply it went to a higher level after I stopped riding, so probably my resistance to the pain and such lowered and when I started again the affliction was more intense.

He ordered me to stop cycling, until I recovered. I did so and missed the full 2007 season.

And all that time I was thinking all that annoyances were related to that old and healed STD, and it was because of my saddle.

After that, when I was "healed" ( because you probably never heal from a chronic prostatitis, it just annoys you less ). I got me the best saddle on the market for this. Selle Italia SLC.

I've been riding all this 2008, many times per week ( 4 or 5 ) and long rides and clibms. 

No numbness, no pain, no prostatitis. 

In conclusion, get yourself controlled by an urologyst, get a cutout saddle and keep riding safe.


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## Joemero

> After that, when I was "healed" ( because you probably never heal from a chronic prostatitis, it just annoys you less ). I got me the best saddle on the market for this. Selle Italia SLC.


Do you have the kit carbonio version of the SLC? or the gel flow?


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## Salsa_Lover

I have the SLC Kit Carbonio Gel Flow.

The saddle is expensive but it is really great, It has minimal gel padding, just on the areas around the cutout, and a thin layer on the seatbone area. It seem to mold to your ass, it gets more and more comfortable with the time.

I just can't ride anything without a cutout, I put a selle Italia XO transam on my commuter bike and it is fine for short commuting in the city, but once I tried to commute on a non cutout saddle and my prostate didn't like it.

I have an SLR Gel Flow on my Cross bike, but I'll change it for an SLC as soon as I can get a discounted one, however my cross rides are shorter and less demanding as I am off the saddle often and there is much less climbing.

I tried the SMP but I didn't liked the nose pointing down and also the cutout is too wide.

The SLC has the perfect cutout shape, keeping the racing saddle size weight and feel.

I also became aware of all this and then conciously I place myself in the right position over my seatbones on the saddle, specially when you need or have to have preassure on the saddle, like when climbing seated for example.

this is the one


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## Kerry Irons

*Or not*



Salsa_Lover said:


> You need a cutout saddle.


Plenty of people find that cutout saddles either do no good or actually cause more problems. Just because it works for one person does NOT mean that it will work for others.

There are 5 factors in preventing numbness and pain:

1) saddle adjustment - tilt angle is very important

2) sitting properly - a lot of people ride too far forward on the saddle. Your "sit bones" should be perched on the rear, wide part of the saddle

3) standing up - you should never let things go numb or get painful. At the first sign of any lack of feeling or pain, pedal standing up for a short distance and repeat as necessary to bring the feeling back and prevent further numbness

4) easing up - you want to lift your butt off the saddle any time you are going to hit a bump or sharp edge. It's easier on your anatomy, your wheels, your tires, and the rest of your bike.

5) saddle - there are some people who can ride most any saddle if it is properly adjusted (see #1) and there are some people who have problems with nearly any saddle. It's hard to predict which type you are. Work on 1-3 and if that doesn't help, THEN consider a new saddle.

The standard advice is to tip the nose down, but having discussed this topic many times, it seems that some people are not sitting properly on their saddles. You need to have a saddle and saddle position that has your sit bones on the butt of the saddle. If your saddle nose is tipped down too far, it may cause you to slide forward. If it is tipped up too far, it may be causing pressure. And if you can't get things right in between these points, it may be that you are not sitting in the right spot or that the saddle doesn't fit you. IME, the range of saddle tilt goes from "nose level" to saddle level. Nose level means that for most saddles, the butt of the saddle is elevated (this is how I ride). Saddle level means that a level placed on the saddle would have the nose and butt level, which may create a hammock effect in the middle. Your personal comfort has to rule on where to place things in this range. Also, fore/aft position can influence comfort - it is a trade between pedaling style and the how much you lean on the bars vs. sit on the saddle.


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## Joemero

> 1) saddle adjustment - tilt angle is very important


I think the nose angle on this saddle is a little higher. It's also a little harder than my previous bontrager saddle. But I've heard softer isnt always better.


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## Keeping up with Junior

*six, seven*



Kerry Irons said:


> There are 5 factors in preventing numbness and pain...


6) Fit - your overall bike fit can impact saddle comfort too. In addition to saddle height and tilt, there is fore/aft adjustment, reach and drop to the bars, cleat position...

7) Padding - Sometimes avoiding the uber light, micro saddles can help, too much paddig is bad but so is not enough padding. A good chamois in a pair of bibs that keeps it properly in place. Wide enough tires with the right PSI for your weight and roads so not every single road imperfection is felt in your crotch.


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## joker

I have a Specialized Toupe saddle with cut out area very comfortable and recommended, the cut out saddles should help with your problem .


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## talentous

*+1*



Keeping up with Junior said:


> Padding - Sometimes avoiding the uber light, micro saddles can help, too much paddig is bad but so is not enough padding. A good chamois in a pair of bibs that keeps it properly in place. Wide enough tires with the right PSI for your weight and roads so not every single road imperfection is felt in your crotch.


I was having the same numbness feeling. You shouldn't have any type of numbness first off....but if it extends way past the time you were cycling, you should see about getting better padding to protect you down there. You're cutting of circulation and I've read about some people who had permanent damage because of prolonged numbness after a ride. Get better Chamois. :thumbsup:


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## Joemero

> You're cutting of circulation and I've read about some people who had permanent damage because of prolonged numbness after a ride.


Yikes!:cryin: 
What kind of permanent damage is possible? just numbness? Impotence? I rode on 42m on Sunday and today, still a little numb, not as much as yesterday. 



> I was having the same numbness feeling. If it extends way past the time you were cycling


How long did the numbness last for you? Did you stop riding for a while? Did everything return to normal?


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## talentous

*~~~*



Joemero said:


> Yikes!:cryin:
> What kind of permanent damage is possible? just numbness? Impotence? I rode on 42m on Sunday and today, still a little numb, not as much as yesterday.
> 
> 
> How long did the numbness last for you? Did you stop riding for a while? Did everything return to normal?



When I first started riding I did a charity ride 75 miles. I stood up at times but I was overweight at the time. It lasted a couple of days.. and I was scared shitless. Look it up on in google...there many articles on it. It slowly started to come back after a week. Again this was 4 years ago when I first started riding. 

What type of shorts do you have?


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## Joemero

> What type of shorts do you have?


Pearl Izumi Quest Shorts


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## Joemero

I think the hardness of the SLR has to do with it. It is significantly harder than the stock Bontrager, and i never had any genital numbness issues with that one, only my sit bones hurt after a long ride. I'm wondering if the SLR is something my body will become accustomed to or if I'm risking permanent damage. I'm doing a 62m challenge this coming Sunday, so i'm going to install the old Bontrager just to be on the safe side.


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## cyclust

While good shorts are important for long distance comfort, I don't think they play a role in eliminating numbness. A good chamois isolates you from the friction of pedaling, but is not intended to provide padding for your butt. Saddle comfort boils down to how the saddle fits your bottom. You will be sore if no. 1. You are not used to riding a lot of miles and you suddenly do a long ride. No. 2. You do have lots of miles in and you suddenly change to a saddle with a significantly different shape than what your butt is used to. Finding the right saddle is a matter of trial and error, but keep in mind that when you try a new saddle, you must give time for your butt to get acustomed to it. [see no.2.]


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## kermit

Numbness is nothing to play with or put up with. My husband went out for a 60 miler and got numb for three days, not good. He went to a toupe and the problem is gone. Try a cutout saddle. Just my 2 cents.


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## Salsa_Lover

IMHO,

numbness is not at all a matter of "get used to it". 

If you have it is is a signal that your saddle doesn't match your anatomy or that your riding style is putting preassure on the conducts of the perineal region.

You should never "man-up", ignore it and continue riding because "you'd get used to it". 

You should stop, analize what is wrong and change it.

I agree that a non cutout saddle could work for people with an anatomy of their seat bones and a riding style that doesn't put pressure on the wrong areas.

But for others, think about people with those areas more exposed or in a less good fitness level, or wrong riding style, so then they apply more pressure in the middle of the perineal area.

I rode my old fizik pavé for years, pain and discomfort where there but I don't remember numbness.

I stopped riding for some months, because of work problems and travelling etc. 

When I restarted I wasn't in a good shape, I had to push hard to be able to do the same climbs and sprints I used to do easily before. and this put much more pressure on my saddle. I also changed shoes for more modern ones with a thinner sole but didn't adjusted the saddle height and surely this was putting more pressure there too.

So it is not a black and white answer here. you should analize what are you doing wrong and not just get used to it.

the SLR non cutout is a great saddle, but it is indeed hard and expect a fit rider on it. I think if you ride sitting on the wrong place on it you'd have numbness problems with it.

Also good quality shorts do a big difference to the riding comfort and the placement of your sensitive areas on the saddle too.


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## walleyeangler

Have yourself checked by a doctor just to be sure and don't think that you will get used to the numbness or that the seat will break-in. If it hurts, change it.

Prostate cancer survivor here. The Adamo got me back on the bike and I've never looked back. The cut out is perfect, the designer Steve Toll put foam where its needed and gell where it's needed. I can ride several long distance rides on consecutive days without any problem or discomfort at all.

They make several versions...a race with titanium to lighten then, a road and less expensive versions of the same design. 

http://www.blackwellresearch.com/p_seats.htm


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## Joemero

*Give up cycling?*

Well now I'm scared sh*%&less. Haven't seen Mr. Woody ever since Sunday. Got an emergency appt with my urologist and he said to stay off the bike for a couple weeks until I see him again, and put me on Cialis one-a-day (low dose) and blood thinners to see if things get better. Still feeling kind of numb although not as much as last Sunday. It's been 5-6 days now, and still got what seems like a dead u know what. I now cringe at the thought of getting back on the bike, or even when I see it. 

I feel depressed because I have been so crazy about this sport, living, breathing it, and my goal was to increase my mileage weekly and eventually try my hand at racing. I'm 36 and have never had any problems like this before, actually quite the opposite. Have any of you been through this? My feeling is that with time it will come back, but I'm afraid it will my perineum will be delicate and easier to hurt again. I'm definetaly going to try different saddles and positions, but now I don't feel that enthusiasm to ride without anandon like I was planning too. Every morning I would dream up routes to increase my mileage. I can't believe I might have to give up this sport. I told my urologist, I'm addicted to cycling, it's such a great sport, and he said..."so is sex"


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## Creakyknees

Don't give up hope. There's always recumbents.


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## Tlaloc

*Get a Saddle with a Cutout*

Numbness is caused by constriction of the nerves and blood vessels in the perineum. Most riders will never get any numbness ever again after they get a saddle with a cutout. Modern saddles are also better because one sits with his weight on his seat bones.

Get a saddle with a cutout. Adjust it correctly. You may be sitting too far forward on the saddle and putting too much pressure on your perineum. Wear shorts with good padding.

I rode for many years with old fashioned saddles and experienced varying degrees of numbness in spite of standing up to let blood return to my crotch, etc. Modern low-profile racing saddle don't look comfortable but they are. Since I got a Selle Italia SLK I've ridden thousands and thousands of miles, including multi-day tours with no discomfort at all ever.

Read the reviews here:

http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/controls/saddles/selle-italia/PRD_174277_2509crx.aspx

The reviewers address the problems you are experiencing.


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## Salsa_Lover

I wish you a fast recovery Joe,

Numbness and this temporary irritation are just symptoms, when you ride a lot on an innapropiate saddle, you are cutting the circulation of fluids through your perineal area, then your penis go numb and you were maybe also pressing the conducts in a way that swollens them and then this irrtation can take some time to go away.

I had to stop cycling for months to recover. I couldn't even do a quick commute for groceries without restarting the numbness/pain/prostatitis symptoms.

I haven't experienced impotence, but I guess it is because I stopped riding and started again after months with a cutout saddle at the right time.

Now I can again do long rides and climbs without numbness or pains other than normal fatigue at the seatbones and Mr. Happy is still as functional as ever.


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## Joemero

I wonder what benefit is from the SLK to the SLC. The SLC seems to have a larger cutout.


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## Salsa_Lover

the SLC has an stronger shell ( more carbon fiber content ) so the shape can be more extreme with a larger cutout while being still resistant and also has carbon rails. Hence the higher price.

here is the SLK compare with the SLC above










But I tell you again, there is probably no need for you to get the bigest and most expensive cutout.

I ride my cross bike during the autumn with a SLR gel flow ( small cutout ) and I have no numbness or problems either


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## Tlaloc

*Prostatitis*



Salsa_Lover said:


> I couldn't even do a quick commute for groceries without restarting the numbness/pain/prostatitis...


Although prostatitis is may be exacerbated by bicycling it's usually caused by a bacterial infection. Many men have a chronic low-level bacterial infection of the prostate. If you start to have to urinate frequently, particularly at night, or have pain behind your pubic bone, or in your bladder, you should go to a doctor. Generally this is treated with a short course of a fluoroquinolone antibiotic like Ciprofloxacin. Some men with a chronic infection require longer antibiotic treatment. As one ages, getting his prostate examined regularly and having a PSA test is a good idea because prostate cancer is so common. If it's detected early it can usually be treated successfully.


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## Joemero

> I wish you a fast recovery Joe,
> 
> Numbness and this temporary irritation are just symptoms, when you ride a lot on an innapropiate saddle, you are cutting the circulation of fluids through your perineal area, then your penis go numb and you were maybe also pressing the conducts in a way that swollens them and then this irrtation can take some time to go away.
> 
> I had to stop cycling for months to recover. I couldn't even do a quick commute for groceries without restarting the numbness/pain/prostatitis symptoms.
> 
> I haven't experienced impotence, but I guess it is because I stopped riding and started again after months with a cutout saddle at the right time.
> 
> Now I can again do long rides and climbs without numbness or pains other than normal fatigue at the seatbones and Mr. Happy is still as functional as ever.


Salsa Lover,
I just got a great deal on an SLC just like yours in the pics you posted...identical! I should probably receive it by Friday, which is how long I should wait without getting on the bike anyways, so perfect timing. I will let you know how it goes. I've been tempted by the posts that say cutouts are bogus....but I cringe at the thought of anything touching my perineum. To quote Dr. Goldstein, "the safest saddle would be shaped like a toilet seat" Well I don't agree 100% with that statement, but the SLC is the closest to that statement, and I dont want to risk anything. I might also try a San Marco Concor, my LBS is offering for free to try out. I also wonder why you dont see that many pros (hardly any) riding cutouts....hmmmmmm, but Armstrong and Contador ride hours and hours on a Concor. Cadel Evans rides an Aspide (ouch), I think their fitness level has a lot to do with it too.


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## Tlaloc

The Aspide has a cutout. The Concor may have a soft strip down the middle that acts like a cutout.


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## Salsa_Lover

So Joemero,

how is it now going with the saddle ?


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## kermit

Hope things are bettter. Don't be pulled into the stereotype of what the big boys ride on, I guarantee that training saddles and racing saddles both have their place. Don't sacrifice your health for a few grams. Get comfy first then train.


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## phoehn9111

Cutouts can cause more problems than they solve. I'm sold on the new
Bontrager Inform although the Italia SLR works great too. What Mr Grumpy
said, those kinds of problems generally go away with more miles.


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## teffisk

But as many said before, not every saddle works for everyone. The much suggested Toupe made my legs tingle and go numb after about 10 miles. Find an LBS that will let you test them


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## Joemero

> So Joemero,
> 
> how is it now going with the saddle ?





> Hope things are bettter. Don't be pulled into the stereotype of what the big boys ride on, I guarantee that training saddles and racing saddles both have their place. Don't sacrifice your health for a few grams. Get comfy first then train.





> But as many said before, not every saddle works for everyone. The much suggested Toupe made my legs tingle and go numb after about 10 miles. Find an LBS that will let you test them


Thanks, everyone! Things are getting better as far as my condition, everything seems to be returning to normal after a week or so. What a relief!

As far as the Italia SLC, I received the saddle a few days ago, and have gone on a about 3, 10 mile test rides. My first impression of this saddle is that it immediately brought back memories of the SLR that started the whole perineum/numbness problem. This saddle is kind of hard like the SLR, and although it has a rather large cutout, there appears to be no benefit for me because the nose of the saddle has no cutout and is kind of convex (the opposite of a hammock) looks kind of like a little "speed bump" which seems to push up into the perineum a little. 

I'm following everyone's advice and working with my LBS. I found a new shop which is more like a "bike studio" with a local pro rider who owns it and is a real enthuisiast who likes to take people out on different level rides, and offers training & nutrition advice. He offered to let me try as many saddles as I'd like until I find the right one, and he is willing to bring in ones that he doesn't have in stock. He loaned me an older model San Marco Strada Bontrager edition. It's very similar to the Concor but has the rear "wings" cut off by the design of Keith Bontrager. The date code is '96 on this saddle, but at this point I don't care about looks or coolness at all. I just want to enjoy doing centuries whenever I want.


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## Joemero

*Update on the SLC*

Well, I thought it's best to give a saddle a decent amount of time before forming an opinion about it, so I went on a 35 mile ride last Sunday, and am glad to report that I had zero numbness with the Italia SLC. It is a little harder than what I'm used to, but I'm convinced it's worth it to give it a good month or two of evaluation. I also got numerous compliments on it's looks! :thumbsup:


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## hoehnt

I got a toupe to replace my fizik arione. At first it felt great, then it moved a bit and I didnt notice it. Next thing i knew I was in pain. I fixed the saddle and now it feels fine again. Saddle position is very important.

Weird thing is I rode on a Selle Italia Flite saddle (same saddle) for about 15 years with no problem at all.


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## bas

Salsa_Lover said:


> You need a cutout saddle.
> 
> I'll share my story with you.
> 
> I have been riding for around a decade now, allways used a fizik pavé, didn't had numbness but I did have seat pain and disconfort. I chose to "man-up" and stand the pain like a real man.
> 
> About at the same time I started riding more often ( 4 times per week minimum ), I had also a very active sexual life with different partners. So I got an STD. It was treated and supposedly was healed.
> 
> But after that I started noticing constant soreness and an itchy sensation on my sex, sometimes I felt like a soft pain that kicked me, It was not hard, but you could just noticed like a pin or some soft electric shock inside.
> 
> I went to the doctor many times during that period, he told me allways that I was healthy, But that those were probably side effects of that STD, so I insisted that he made more tests to see if I had probably another different one, with no success, all tests were negative, I was in perfect health, but the annoyances continued, my doctor simply assumed that I was probably hypochondriac and told me not to worry about, and time went on.
> 
> One year I could not do much cycling because of work issues and so, and then I started again to do it, my sex started to go numb while riding and then after those same pains that I described were more intense, toghether with a general sickness feeling.
> 
> I went to an Urologist and he made tests and found out that I had a chronic prostatitis, very probably caused by the saddle and my stubborness of keep riding no matter the pain and discomfort.
> 
> I had that for many years and simply it went to a higher level after I stopped riding, so probably my resistance to the pain and such lowered and when I started again the affliction was more intense.
> 
> He ordered me to stop cycling, until I recovered. I did so and missed the full 2007 season.
> 
> And all that time I was thinking all that annoyances were related to that old and healed STD, and it was because of my saddle.
> 
> After that, when I was "healed" ( because you probably never heal from a chronic prostatitis, it just annoys you less ). I got me the best saddle on the market for this. Selle Italia SLC.
> 
> I've been riding all this 2008, many times per week ( 4 or 5 ) and long rides and clibms.
> 
> No numbness, no pain, no prostatitis.
> 
> In conclusion, get yourself controlled by an urologyst, get a cutout saddle and keep riding safe.


Did your first doctor check your prostrate?


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## Tlaloc

bas said:


> Did your first doctor check your prostrate?


prostrate |ˈpräsˌtrāt|
adjective
lying stretched out on the ground with one's face downward.

You mean "prostate"?


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## oops

Joemero said:


> Pearl Izumi Quest Shorts



The Quest shorts are Pearls entry short in the line, the thickest pad but also the softest/spongest. Maybe consider a step up in quality shorts if your mileage is going to continue to grow. In addition to pro fit. I know I really like the Microsensors.


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## bmxhacksaw

What's the first thing you think when you see a post titled "Crotch numbness" and there is the little "photos attached" icon next to it?


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## Salsa_Lover

Joemero said:


> Well, I thought it's best to give a saddle a decent amount of time before forming an opinion about it, so I went on a 35 mile ride last Sunday, and am glad to report that I had zero numbness with the Italia SLC. It is a little harder than what I'm used to, but I'm convinced it's worth it to give it a good month or two of evaluation. I also got numerous compliments on it's looks! :thumbsup:


Good to hear Joe,

as I told you. It is a racing saddle, hard and minimalistic gel padding. But it is really good, light and keep the pressure away of your perineum, sure the pressure goes to other places, my seatbones hurt a bit after a long ride, but this is a pain that goes away soon and doesn't affect your sexual/urinary functions at all.

And it looks indeed great.


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## Salsa_Lover

bas said:


> Did your first doctor check your prostrate?


No, he just related the symptoms to the STD. I had to find by myself that the cycling style/saddle was compressing the pudendal nerves and irritating the prostate with an urologyst later on.


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## MichiganMat

I had this problem too.

Angled my very-cheap nothing-special seat more downward in the front to put more pressure on my butt-bones instead of my junk. Numbness solved.

Don't throw money at it until you adjust your setup.


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## Art853

I just skimmed the thread but most of the emphasis seems to be on the saddle. You should get a bike fit. The reach and drop to the handlebars and the height of the saddle and tilt can also affect saddle comfort.


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## ProRoad

I am a 44 year old former pro. I have been slow to urinate for many years now but no other negative recurring symptoms. :sad: 

I got lots of numbness at the track last night, luckily it went away as soon as I stopped riding. There is more sitting for longer periods, less standing at the track. 

I dont have a cutout on my track bike but I do on my road bike. Time to make that switch

thanks for this thread..



B


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## jmlapoint

IMO, if the numbness is due to the pressure from your saddle on the pudendal nerves to the 'area' ('Bicycle Seat Neuropathy'), not riding and eliminating the pressure should cause it to improve/clear up in a day or two. Returning to the same saddle setup or the same riding situation may cause it to recur. That is probably not good.

www.emedicine.com/sports/topic12.htm


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## Joemero

oops said:


> The Quest shorts are Pearls entry short in the line, the thickest pad but also the softest/spongest. Maybe consider a step up in quality shorts if your mileage is going to continue to grow. In addition to pro fit. I know I really like the Microsensors.


I never thought of this, and makes perfect sense to me. Although the numbness has gone away with the new SI SLC saddle. I think a step up in shorts will make it even more comfortable. My goal is to get in more and more miles all the time.


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## Joemero

ProRoad said:


> I am a 44 year old former pro. I have been slow to urinate for many years now but no other negative recurring symptoms. :sad:
> 
> I got lots of numbness at the track last night, luckily it went away as soon as I stopped riding. There is more sitting for longer periods, less standing at the track.
> 
> I dont have a cutout on my track bike but I do on my road bike. Time to make that switch
> 
> thanks for this thread..
> 
> 
> 
> B


I agree that this is an important thread, because for me...this issue had almost completely depleted my interest in cycling and I would look at my bike as something that was causing me harm instead of the way I used to drool over it and want to cycle every chance I got. The whole point of getting fit and healthy was also to attract the opposite sex, but what good was that if my "machinery" could possibly not work. Thank heavens all that is good now. But I got to admit it was scary there for a while.


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## trener1

Just to add my two cents....
Much has already been said here and lots of the advice is good.
One thing that I will echo, is that the first thing to check is saddle position, a short story to illustrate this point..
This spring I got a new bike, and I new frame, and brought it to the shop to have the components swapped, told the shop owner to copy the fit and all of the measurements exactly to match the old bike, as I had it dialed exactly the way I liked it, long story short, the bike was ready on Friday afternoon, and being eager to race it right away.... I did a 75 mile race on Saturday morning without really checking everything out (I know... never try a new thing out in a race, but I trusted the shop). when I went to pee after the race it felt like needles coming through.... 
Needless to say I was scared "out of my pants". before rushing to to the ER I decided to think take a good look at the bike, and what do you know... the saddle was pointed ever so slightly upwards, and you can imagine being in a racing position for 75 miles with the saddle pointed up put lots of pressure on the area.. 
So take a good look at your overall fit and your saddle position.

As far as Saddles go, I was riding a Sella Italia with the cutout, and about 3 weeks ago it was time for a new Saddle so I decided to give the Terry Zero a try
http://www.terrybicycles.com/detail.html?item_no=21676&c=On+Sale
And I am happy to say that I was very impressed from the moment I put it on the bike.


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## acid_rider

Selle SMP Stratos or Selle SMP Evolution. It works. They also have more or less padded models which might work just as well. Expensive but worth it. All pressure is on sit-bones and nowhere else (if properly and correctly positioned).


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## California L33

trener1 said:


> Just to add my two cents....
> Much has already been said here and lots of the advice is good.
> One thing that I will echo, is that the first thing to check is saddle position, a short story to illustrate this point..
> This spring I got a new bike, and I new frame, and brought it to the shop to have the components swapped, told the shop owner to copy the fit and all of the measurements exactly to match the old bike, as I had it dialed exactly the way I liked it, long story short, the bike was ready on Friday afternoon, and being eager to race it right away.... I did a 75 mile race on Saturday morning without really checking everything out (I know... never try a new thing out in a race, but I trusted the shop). when I went to pee after the race it felt like needles coming through....
> Needless to say I was scared "out of my pants". before rushing to to the ER I decided to think take a good look at the bike, and what do you know... the saddle was pointed ever so slightly upwards, and you can imagine being in a racing position for 75 miles with the saddle pointed up put lots of pressure on the area..
> So take a good look at your overall fit and your saddle position.
> 
> As far as Saddles go, I was riding a Sella Italia with the cutout, and about 3 weeks ago it was time for a new Saddle so I decided to give the Terry Zero a try
> http://www.terrybicycles.com/detail.html?item_no=21676&c=On+Sale
> And I am happy to say that I was very impressed from the moment I put it on the bike.


I second it- very subtle differences can make big differences. I've never had crotch numbness to speak of, not when riding the bike, not when riding it on rollers, but I recently bought a trainer to give me more resistance on rain days. After 45 minutes I started to get numb. In theory there's no difference in the bike or rider position. In fact there was a difference.


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## tyro

California L33 said:


> I second it- very subtle differences can make big differences. I've never had crotch numbness to speak of, not when riding the bike, not when riding it on rollers, but I recently bought a trainer to give me more resistance on rain days. After 45 minutes I started to get numb. In theory there's no difference in the bike or rider position. In fact there was a difference.


The trainer gets me too. I usually use the double chamois for longer trainer rides...which has been every ride for me as of late!


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## Nimitz

Joe first off I wish you a speedy recovery, please keep us updated.

now to my story.

I'm 20 (will be 21 in a month!) and started riding this past August, first did solo rides under 50 miles. my first half century...numbness...like you I was numb for pretty much that entire day and part of the next day and scared shitless.

I'm riding on a Fizik Arione and the saddle is what I consider "level" I've also had it nose up, have yet to try "nose down" but that is my next move. after this I plan on trying a Specalized Toupe, and just now started looking at the SLR's and SLC's.

is numbness usually a sign of the wrong "size" saddle? as to narrow ? or is it more to do with the angle of the saddle, or possible lack of cut outs?

Chad


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## Salsa_Lover

There is a seller on ebay that has 4 SLC in stock for $139 each

I am buying one to have it as an spare in case mine breaks, it is sold out on the shops and CRC and probably if it breaks I'd have to pay full price for it ( some $220 here )

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320327038723


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## CFBlue

OMG that doesnt look vaguely phallic...no ...not at all lol







Salsa_Lover said:


> I have the SLC Kit Carbonio Gel Flow.
> 
> The saddle is expensive but it is really great, It has minimal gel padding, just on the areas around the cutout, and a thin layer on the seatbone area. It seem to mold to your ass, it gets more and more comfortable with the time.
> 
> I just can't ride anything without a cutout, I put a selle Italia XO transam on my commuter bike and it is fine for short commuting in the city, but once I tried to commute on a non cutout saddle and my prostate didn't like it.
> 
> I have an SLR Gel Flow on my Cross bike, but I'll change it for an SLC as soon as I can get a discounted one, however my cross rides are shorter and less demanding as I am off the saddle often and there is much less climbing.
> 
> I tried the SMP but I didn't liked the nose pointing down and also the cutout is too wide.
> 
> The SLC has the perfect cutout shape, keeping the racing saddle size weight and feel.
> 
> I also became aware of all this and then conciously I place myself in the right position over my seatbones on the saddle, specially when you need or have to have preassure on the saddle, like when climbing seated for example.
> 
> this is the one


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## simplyhankk

Joe, 
some of the reviews mentioned the hot spot on the sitbones these saddles give you...do you experience that?


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## Nimitz

just to update...I got my fit much better and the numbness was non exisistant on a 50mi group ride this weekend:thumbsup: :thumbsup: 

also plan on getting some Assos or Giordana Formas

Chad


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## jmlapoint

Congratulations!
Sure is nice when a plan comes together and works out.
Happy Cycling.


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## tyro

Funny you mention fit. I went in for another fitting with my PT/fitter and he raised my saddle and tilted my bars forward. After that I have not been having any numbness at all. I'm happy.


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## Nimitz

JM, Tyro most definitely a happy guy !

after hearing about this and experiencing it I think a proper fitting would help 99.99% of cyclist I'll be going for my Retul fit next month after I get some base miles on this new fit RBR/Bikeforums fit lol.

the only thing that bothered me on the 50mi ride was the actual bibs started chafing, and I had a slightly sore neck, but IMO more due to lack of neck muscles.:thumbsup: 

Chad


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## Joemero

simplyhankk said:


> Joe,
> some of the reviews mentioned the hot spot on the sitbones these saddles give you...do you experience that?


I does have a little bit of a hot spot on the sit bones, but I think that's something I can get used to....for me it's better to have that than the numbness. No more numbness for me!


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## Joemero

Salsa_Lover said:


> I have the SLC Kit Carbonio Gel Flow.
> 
> The saddle is expensive but it is really great, It has minimal gel padding, just on the areas around the cutout, and a thin layer on the seatbone area. It seem to mold to your ass, it gets more and more comfortable with the time.
> 
> I just can't ride anything without a cutout, I put a selle Italia XO transam on my commuter bike and it is fine for short commuting in the city, but once I tried to commute on a non cutout saddle and my prostate didn't like it.
> 
> I have an SLR Gel Flow on my Cross bike, but I'll change it for an SLC as soon as I can get a discounted one, however my cross rides are shorter and less demanding as I am off the saddle often and there is much less climbing.
> 
> I tried the SMP but I didn't liked the nose pointing down and also the cutout is too wide.
> 
> The SLC has the perfect cutout shape, keeping the racing saddle size weight and feel.
> 
> I also became aware of all this and then conciously I place myself in the right position over my seatbones on the saddle, specially when you need or have to have preassure on the saddle, like when climbing seated for example.
> 
> this is the one


Anyone have any issues with the back of this saddle spreading open over time?


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## simplyhankk

Joemero said:


> Anyone have any issues with the back of this saddle spreading open over time?



Actually, I think I can agree. I had the SLC saddle for about 5 months, and for the most part it was extremely comfortable, absolutely no numbness and it also allowed me to move around a bit (riding in drops, on the bars, etc.) all in all I was very happy with it. 

But then after a while (4 months?) I gradually started feeling the saddle "digging up" between my sit bones...first I thought it was time for new shorts, but that didn't solve. 

I found out that over time the slope of the 'flat' part of the saddle becomes steeper after a while, and that to me became uncomfortable. I was getting rashes, saddle sores...etc. I only weigh 140lb, so my bony @$$ might have not helped, but eventually I got rid of it.

I think if they can come up with something that connects the cutout (like specialied toupe) for rigidity to avoid the saddle spreading open overtime would be fantastic...I do love the shape of the saddle and when it was comfortable. Just my experience.


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## California L33

simplyhankk said:


> Actually, I think I can agree. I had the SLC saddle for about 5 months, and for the most part it was extremely comfortable, absolutely no numbness and it also allowed me to move around a bit (riding in drops, on the bars, etc.) all in all I was very happy with it.
> 
> But then after a while (4 months?) I gradually started feeling the saddle "digging up" between my sit bones...first I thought it was time for new shorts, but that didn't solve.
> 
> I found out that over time the slope of the 'flat' part of the saddle becomes steeper after a while, and that to me became uncomfortable. I was getting rashes, saddle sores...etc. I only weigh 140lb, so my bony @$$ might have not helped, but eventually I got rid of it.
> 
> I think if they can come up with something that connects the cutout (like specialied toupe) for rigidity to avoid the saddle spreading open overtime would be fantastic...I do love the shape of the saddle and when it was comfortable. Just my experience.


Saddle sores? A bad saddle can certainly contribute. Assos Chamois Creme before every ride will prevent them.


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## Yoyo500

*Crotch Issues*

Hey guys,
I'm just getting over a bout of prostitis and will try a Rido saddle (rear or seat is raised higher than the nose) along with a more upright handlebar angle. At the same time I'm thinking that I should be using cycling shorts with minimal to no padding to reduce pressue in the prostate area. Any comments on using non padded cycling shorts for prostate issues?
Thanks


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## Tlaloc

*Keep the Shorts*



Yoyo500 said:


> ...Any comments on using non padded cycling shorts for prostate issues?
> Thanks


My cycling shorts have padding for each cheek with less in the middle, much like a seat with a cut-out. Keep the padded shorts. See a urologist for prostate issues.


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## spade2you

Tlaloc said:


> My cycling shorts have padding for each cheek with less in the middle, much like a seat with a cut-out. Keep the padded shorts. See a urologist for prostate issues.


+1!!!!!


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## Yoyo500

Tlaloc,
I have already seen a urologist and he told me to stay off the bike. I have been off for a month and now I want to try to get all pressure off of the prostate area so I thought that too much padding in the center area might at least contribute to the irritation along with a too narrow of a saddle.


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## rcekstrom

I second, saddle tilt and fit. 

STORY: I was on my trainer the other say and experienced this, I forgot to put the shim under the front tire, thus the entire bike was tilted wrong. It wasn't till I was off the trainer that I noticed the numbness. Rode yesterday and all is good.


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## sanmusa

Well, I had been off my bikes (road and mountain) for almost two years due to knee and back pain. The knee pain got fixed with shoe inserts, but the back pain kept on getting worse and worse through the two years, and after dealing with Army doctors who only gave me pills I finally got an MRI that showed a burst disc, L5-S1. This January I had a microdisectomy done and the doctor removed a part of the nucleus in my disc. After that I slowly started recovering. 

This last May my doctor cleared me to start riding a recumbent bike, so I bought a used one. The recumbent is damn comfortable, but sucks on the uphills, and my legs still don't have those "bent muscles". 

Last week I thought I might give my road bike a try, so I dusted it off, took it to a LBS and had them do a thorough once over, put a new tube, cables, true the wheels, tune up, etc. Yesterday I went for my first ride in a road bike in two years. I rode 19 miles through the rain, loved it. Hated the damn crotch pain! My back is fine, no more pain, but the crotch... damn it sucks. I was wearing my old cycling shorts, good padding, and some crotch lube. 

Today I was itching to ride again, but I decided to change the saddle on the road bike. Off came my non-cutout, thinly padded road bike seat, and I put my mountain bike saddle, with cutout and more padding on the ass part. Today I rode another 22 miles through the rain, and still I have crotch pain! The pain is not as bad as yesterday, but now my crotch is numb. 

I am thinking now of forking some money on a good saddle. Maybe a Brooks Saddle, maybe a Selle SMP. I know I gotta just get used to it, but there's got to be more comfort.


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## peterk

I use a toupe saddle and never have any problems; except for one particular ride earlier this year. I went completely numb. Now don't laugh at my solution:

Usually the little guy is placed up and a bit to the left. This particular time it was up and a bit to the right. Made the adjustment while still riding and within 15 minutes I was good. 

So, if you are usually good check out where you have it placed.

BTW, useful thread. 

Pete


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## tyro

Old thread here...

You might try the Specialized Romin saddle too. It is sort of the evolution of the Toupe BG design and has helped a lot of folks enjoy pain free cycling. They make 3 widths for different sized rear ends.

I always say people should get a fitting first. Ask the fitter to try a few saddles too. Some people say that you need a few weeks to know if the saddle will work, but sometimes you know right away when you find the right one.

Good luck!


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## SolidSnake03

Funny you mentioned the Romin, I have a Romin and actually am having some pain/discomfort problems with it. It's not so much the numbness but just overall pain and my body not feeling good. The saddle is constantly "there" and on my mind which is making my riding experience quite a bit less fun.

I'm going in for a full body fit at a local shop in a few weeks and I'll see if that helps otherwise one of the guys at the shop said they stock almost every major saddle company and have no problem letting me demo until I find one that works following the bike fit.

I figure I will get properly fit for my bike first and then see how the Romin feels, if it's still not great than I know it's the saddle itself.


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## gmleonard

Ive used the Fizik Antares Carbon 00, the Selle Italia SLR Fibra and now a Toupe Pro. The right saddle can be very hard to find and having a professional fitting can make a huge difference in your riding comfort. I loved my Fizik, but, a crash trashed it. I've only got 40 miles on the Toupe so I'm still dialing it in. Also, there is a huge difference between a $50 dollar pair of shorts and a $100 pair of shorts. I used to use PI Attacks and loved them, then I sprung for Sugoi RS and wow. Good luck with finding what works for you, the last thing you want to be nicknamed is Numb Nuts


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## SolidSnake03

I figured the fitting is probably the best first step...well that and buying a real pair of bib shorts. Been riding a pair of Gore Ozon as my first pair of actual bibs and so far they are amazing! The pad is great and the leg grippers are really nice. 

I understand that saddle is something that can take a bit of trial and error to get right which is why I'm trying to resolve all the other issues "fit/bibs" before tackling it last. If I need to try a few different saddles and spend a bit of money I don't really have that is ok since the end result is a comfortable ride which is really all I'm after.


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## voodooguy

I found the SMP evolution to be the best for me. I've tested other saddles, w/o a cutout, and have not been happy at all. Recently got me a B17 Imperial narrow for my commuter. Jury is still out because I want to be sure to give enough break in time. Feels pretty good on the sit bones, although hard. But I noticed some pain in the perineum area. It almost feels like the cut out from the leather may be rubbing against the area. BUT, I'm also thinking it may be a function of new MTB shorts that may be a bit big for me. So, we shall see. But, the SMP has been great for me.


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## duz10s

i can confirm cut out saddles dont work for everyone, I had problem of serious numbness for rides over 40km, try cut out saddle and no difference.

You need to make sure you find a saddle with the right sit bone widths and also get the angle right, its very important.


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## glorth2

Just to throw in, I was riding a Toupe, there was some numbness. Switched to the Romin, numbness still there. Switched from shorts to bib, problem solved.


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## J-HY

I have similar issues- recently switched to an ISM adamo road saddle- has helped tremendously. Have done 3 3.5 hour rides and with no real concerns. Huge improvement.


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