# Schleck "great descender"



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

I'll admit I can't keep Frank and Andy separate, but I know I've seen one of those guys go downhill and I was cringing thru every corner as he made a mess of it. And I know one of them went over a wall on a descent, which wasn't surprising because again he looked awful thru the corners.

Now I thought Andy looked really bad on one of the descents in the Alps but not so bad today, but Vinokorouv still was able to catch him and he didn't make any impression on the guys in front.

Which begs the question, when Phil says he's a great descender, is this just his typical hyperbole?


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## covenant (May 21, 2002)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Which begs the question, when Phil says he's a great descender, is this just his typical hyperbole?


Yes. I was watching an earlier stage descent on a different feed and both commentators were cringing as Andy clumsily negotiated the curves and switchbacks. Switched over the Versus and Phil was singing his praises.


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## MaddSkillz (Mar 13, 2007)

If AC beats him to the bottom, he should wait for him.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Descending in a group following 2 great descenders showing you the line is always going to put time into a solo descender, no matter how good he is.

IMO

Len


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## JacoStillLives (May 7, 2010)

MaddSkillz said:


> If AC beats him to the bottom, he should wait for him.


Thread Hijack!

lol.. been reading your other posts and i have to say i agree with you on the mech issues of AS. Everyone get's them some more serious than others like when AC busted a spoke.. that's much more serious than a chain slipping and he didn't get any help. AS should have been back on the bike in 5-7 seconds.


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

Cancellara is a great descender relative to the pro pelaton.
Schleck is a great descender relative to the majority of the rest of us.


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## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

Hyperbole. One of the EuroSport guys kept saying how he always stated in the past that Andy Schleck was a bad descender though he was showing improvement today. They came nowhere close to actually calling him a good descender.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Len J said:


> Descending in a group following 2 great descenders showing you the line is always going to put time into a solo descender, no matter how good he is.


He also took the lead at many points, but I agree with the sentiment. They were working together, Andy was working alone.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Which begs the question, when Phil says he's a great descender, is this just his typical hyperbole?


Phil was probably thinking of Charly Gaul. But he misidentifies guys a LOT.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Len J said:


> Descending in a group following 2 great descenders showing you the line is always going to put time into a solo descender, no matter how good he is.
> 
> IMO
> 
> Len


Wasn't Schleck with the Belgian guy who looked pretty poor in the corners, which explaine why one pretty good descender Vino was able to catch two mediocre, at best descenders.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

jsedlak said:


> Schleck is a great descender relative to the majority of the rest of us.


Today he didn't look half bad, but when he had to go downhill in the Alps fast he was botching corner after corner. I bet there may be a fair number of us who could give him a run for his money downhill, although he is able to get into one of those really nifty aero tucks


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Wasn't Schleck with the Belgian guy who looked pretty poor in the corners, which explaine why one pretty good descender Vino was able to catch two mediocre, at best descenders.


No, he got no help from him, he was in the front almost the entire descent.

Len


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

I seem to remember that when Bert and Andy were descinding in the Alps together with Sammy Sanchez chasing them down, they actually held him off and might have even increased their gap. And Sanchez is (again acoording to Phil) "the best descender in the peleton."

I think it's pretty true that descending in a group significantly helps in all cases, and descending alone is a hair-raising b!tch.

Am I remembering this wrong? - Stage 9


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

jptaylorsg said:


> And Sanchez is (again acoording to Phil) "the best descender in the peleton."


Yeah you would think the best descender in the peloton would by definition be able to easily open up a gap on someone like Contador who is an unremarkable descender, at least according to Phil 

I remember Sanchez doing some great descents at times, I don't remember Menchov ever going downhill spectacularly but Phil says he's one of the best too


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Yeah you would think the best descender in the peloton would by definition be able to easily open up a gap on someone like Contador who is an unremarkable descender, at least according to Phil
> 
> I remember Sanchez doing some great descents at times, I don't remember Menchov ever going downhill spectacularly but Phil says he's one of the best too


Have you ever followed a great descender down a mountain....or even someone better than you?

I have, and just trusting that they know their lines and speeds improved my descending time.....I just followed their line.

OTOH, descending by myself aI am much more tentative, because I'm not as sure of my lines.

IME

Len


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Len J said:


> Have you ever followed a great descender down a mountain....or even someone better than you?
> 
> I have, and just trusting that they know their lines and speeds improved my descending time.....I just followed their line.



AHHHHHHHHH!!! NOOOOOOOooooooooooo! Key off the road, not the rider in front of you!

Sorry, just one of my peeves. It is easier to follow than to lead, no doubt.

Following a single rider you probably won't get in trouble and can learn a lot, but following 5 riders you might end up off the road. There is always a delay in reactions, and the further back in the line you are, the more the delays of each successive rider adds up. So follow their line, but keep your eye up the road to ANTICIPATE the line.

Also, if you are larger or smaller than the rider in front, your breaking points will be different. Small following large? No problem. Large following small? Might overcook a corner due to late breaking.

I'm guessing that is more what you actually did, btw. But a naive reader/newb cyclist reading what you wrote might try to blindly follow, and end up in a world of hurt.


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## harlond (May 30, 2005)

jptaylorsg said:


> I seem to remember that when Bert and Andy were descinding in the Alps together with Sammy Sanchez chasing them down, they actually held him off and might have even increased their gap. And Sanchez is (again acoording to Phil) "the best descender in the peleton."
> 
> I think it's pretty true that descending in a group significantly helps in all cases, and descending alone is a hair-raising b!tch.
> 
> Am I remembering this wrong? - Stage 9


Yes. Sanchez made up big time on AC and AS on the descent and reduced a minute plus gap to, I believe, 18 seconds at the bottom. At that point the road flattened and by the finish line, AC and AS had added 30-40 seconds back to their margin over Sanchez.


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## cyclejim (Mar 31, 2004)

jsedlak said:


> Cancellara is a great descender relative to the pro pelaton.
> Schleck is a great descender relative to the majority of the rest of us.


 So true!


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## yater (Nov 30, 2006)

Len J said:


> Have you ever followed a great descender down a mountain....or even someone better than you?
> 
> I have, and just trusting that they know their lines and speeds improved my descending time.....I just followed their line.
> 
> ...


Try following a guy (or a train of guys) who weigh more than you. I've been in the 53/11 and out of the saddle, downhill, and have been dropped by guys who weigh 30lbs more than me...while they were in a tuck.


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## manmachine (Jul 3, 2009)

I've said for a few years now that the Schleck's were two of the WORST bike handlers in the Pro Peleton- hands down. Although Andy is slightly better than Frank. But to my surprise, Andy has slightly improved and good for him. I think Phil is being nice though.

After last year, I remarked that if I were team manager, as part of training camp, I would spend at least 4 weeks on Mtn bikes on moderate single track descents and even have those guys go to a motocross camp for a few days, then 2 or 3 days at a motorcycle roadracing school.

It is beyond obvious that MANY pro riders have NO clue how to properly and quickly descend. But if you really understand counter steering, body positioning, braking to control your bike, and sliding a rear tire on a MTB bike at speed, you will have more control. 

Who consistently descends the best on the roads? Former/Active MTB'ers and Cyclocrossers. Why? Control, understanding, confidence.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

He can't be that bad. Sanchez is a great descender and Schleck kept within 31 seconds of them with no help. If he were "bad" he'd have lost minutes. 

Likewise, AC won Paris-Nice by defending a gap he created on a climb with a great descent. It's tough to make generalizations about rider's skills.


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

Andy doesn't seem to be a great bike handler, I agree. We saw him at one point mysteriously drop back to the team car and the camera caught him wobble and nearly falling off his bike!


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