# Colnago C59 vs Parlee Z5 SLi



## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

*Colnago C59 vs Parlee Z5 SLi - (Parlee wins this time)*

Against my better judgment, I am throwing this out for opinions and comments...

I am in the process of choosing between a C59 and a Z5 SLi. Have had a demo ride on a C50 and will also do a demo ride on a Z5 SL. Can anyone that has appropriate experience give more detailed riding impressions between the two? I'm not racing, just an old guy with an itch for something new and expensive and less common (and perhaps more money than sense). Currently very comfortable on a 2011 Tarmac Pro SL3 Dura Ace at about 15.7 pounds,but ultra light is not a goal. Just want to get a sense if there are any positive traits with the C59 I'd be giving up. Bike will be built with Dura Ace Di2.

Off topic and humorous comments will be accepted and evaluated at face value...


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

The C59 and Z5SLi have different geometry and angles. Which one fits best?


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

Should you need warranty support, you'll have a much easier time with an American based company such as Parlee. Note: I'm not saying the Parlee is American BUILT, just that they're American BASED.

Compare the warranties of the Parlee vs. the Colnago. For what it's worth, try calling Parlee and discussing their warranty with them. Then try calling Colnago or, to be a little bit fair, try calling the importer.

The warranty is just as important as the product.


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

Peter P - agree that Parlee has the better warranty. And I'm aware that the Z5 is produced in Asia.

dcgriz - although geometries are different, either one will be able to fit me, I'm okay with either from that perspective. am looking for more qualitative aspects to base my decision on.


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## chuckice (Aug 25, 2004)

One is Colnago...the other is who cares.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

Colnago handling is what pushes it over the top over any other bike! Go C59!


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

carlislegeorge said:


> ...just an old guy with an itch for something new and expensive and less common...


There's a lot of that going around lately.


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## turbogrover (Jan 1, 2006)

This is pretty nice....:thumbsup:


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## ghostryder (Dec 28, 2009)

chuckice said:


> One is Colnago...the other is who cares.


Exactly what he said.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

carlislegeorge said:


> ........just an old guy with an itch for something new and expensive and less common....


Which is the truth for most but few have the [email protected] to publicly admit it. 

I am also looking into these two but will not be able to comment on ride impressions before mid of April. It took 7 months to arrange for a C59 demo ride with the size I would be interested at. Until then expectations could be derived from the published geometries and discussions like this realizing that the variables at hand are too many to form anything else other than expectations. 

For my size, I expect the Z5SLi to be overall somewhat more comfortable but a bit less agile. I think both bikes fall within the neutral-handling range but at different sides of the spectrum. The expectations on the C59 is to shine at the descents IF its set up properly with the rider's weight distribution assuming it is ridden fast enough to make the artistry work. At normal recreational speeds I expect both to be quite comparable. 

The HT length is drastically different between all three bikes with the C59 the shortest by about 1.5 cm. The SL3 has the tallest HT of all. You did not indicate specifics on your current setup but typically you don't want stems pointing to the sky or a stack of spacers taller than 2 - 2.5cm at the most. You may want to check that closely as it could potentially affect comfort and handling.

At the end of the day after all is said and done, the decision might be based on which color looks the best and that's all right as look is one of the bike's purposes.


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## AnthonyL88 (Oct 9, 2007)

I would choose the Colnago C59

Colnago C59 Italia Review - BikeRadar


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

chuckice said:


> One is Colnago...the other is who cares.


+1 

and about fit, Colnago produces 22 different standard sizes + custom option so fit would not be a problem here


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

Parlee has long had a sterling reputation for geometry. The two are more alike than different in that regard. Acting like Parlee is some newcomer is bizzare. And Parlee certainly has a better reputation for quality than Colnago over the years, as well as a real warranty.

Just curious - why the stock Z5 over a custom Z2/Z3? I believe either will be cheaper than a stock C59, and have those gorgeous and functional Ti dropouts plus custom paint.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

You could get a Crumpton built to fit you for around the same money. If I was an older guy with an itch to spend money, I would get a stainless Firefly, but I'm just an old guy.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

Kontact said:


> Just curious - why the stock Z5 over a custom Z2/Z3? I believe either will be cheaper than a stock C59, and have those gorgeous and functional Ti dropouts plus custom paint.


The Z3i semi-custom is the same $ as the C59. It's geometry is more aggressive than the Z5's and comes with choice of tubes in addition to choices in HT height. Fancy paint is not included but Colnago does no longer offer the paint jobs that set it apart on the looks department either, so it evens out.
What the Colnago has over the Parlee is the heritage of the eras past and the aura of the artisan ( I think they made a mistake when they decided to start painting them like the rest) and maybe the effect of sponsorship if anybody cares about it.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

dcgriz said:


> The Z3i semi-custom is the same $ as the C59. It's geometry is more aggressive than the Z5's and comes with choice of tubes in addition to choices in HT height. Fancy paint is not included but Colnago does no longer offer the paint jobs that set it apart on the looks department either, so it evens out.
> What the Colnago has over the Parlee is the heritage of the eras past and the aura of the artisan ( I think they made a mistake when they decided to start painting them like the rest) and maybe the effect of sponsorship if anybody cares about it.


There is considerably more handwork that goes into a US made Parlee than the C-59, and no history of widespread frame failures.

We sell both at the shop, but I'm not going to give the modern Colnago credit for anything beyond geometry and ride. The C-59 is a nice frame, but it takes them about 15 minutes to assemble them from bins of stock tubes and lugs, and they are still using aluminum dropouts.

If we were comparing a lot of different bikes, the C-59 would be a standout. However, Parlee is an incredible company who makes one of the very highest quality bespoke carbon frames in existence. I would strongly urge you to look at a Z3 with the Enve fork.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

Kontact said:


> . I would strongly urge you to look at a Z3 with the Enve fork.


About a $1000 difference between the two Parlees but it may be money well spent if the SL tubing is not your thing.
What do you think about the PF30 vs. the English? Any creaking, clicking noises develop down the line from what you see at the shop?


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

dcgriz said:


> About a $1000 difference between the two Parlees but it may be money well spent if the SL tubing is not your thing.
> What do you think about the PF30 vs. the English? Any creaking, clicking noises develop down the line from what you see at the shop?


$1000 more than the Asian Parlee, but about the same as the stock C-59, right?

Parlee makes their own high quality PF30 adapter - seems pretty nice so far. But if you have a group in mind that uses English, I'd lean that way in a custom Parlee. BB30/PF30 are only really worthwhile if you are using real BB30 cranks, like Force or Red offerings. The Rotor 3D+ and the like are a joke. I don't know what's going to be available in 5 years, but English is a good bet. BB/PF30 seems like the second best bet.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

Kontact said:


> $1000 more than the Asian Parlee, but about the same as the stock C-59, right?


That's right.




Kontact said:


> Parlee makes their own high quality PF30 adapter - seems pretty nice so far. But if you have a group in mind that uses English, I'd lean that way in a custom Parlee. BB30/PF30 are only really worthwhile if you are using real BB30 cranks, like Force or Red offerings. The Rotor 3D+ and the like are a joke. I don't know what's going to be available in 5 years, but English is a good bet. BB/PF30 seems like the second best bet.


Thanks. I do find myself going back to the Durace cranks. I never had any problem with either them or the threaded English. 
I can't say the same about the Specialized BB30 and the house brand crank.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

bigbill said:


> You could get a Crumpton built to fit you for around the same money. If I was an older guy with an itch to spend money, I would get a stainless Firefly, but I'm just an old guy.


C'mon Bill, you are a senior naval officer! You make the big bucks! :thumbsup:

If I had to pick between a Crumpton SL/Corsa, a Parlee Z1/Z3 SL, or a C59, I don't think I could make the choice. Can't go wrong with any of the three. Although, I've seen some Parlees with some funky geo numbers- 74 and 74.5 degree HT angles on a few Z1s and Z3s. I'm sure Parlee adjusts the fork trail to compensate for the steeper HT angle so that the net effect is hardly noticeable. One Crumpton I saw had the exact same numbers as a 55 Colnago. On V-salon, I asked Nick about that particular frame and he basically said it was an exact copy- "custom" to achieve the correct "centering" of the client. The C59, I hope doesn't have differences in geometry compared to its predecessors. The C40/C50/Extremes achieved handling nirvana IMHO. 

Aim high! Go navy!


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

If I was going custom (more or less), it would likely be standard geometry Cyfac Absolu. But likely won't.

With regard to Colnago versus Parlee, I can get a little discount from either of the LBS involved. So...Here's part 2 of the question...if you could buy the C59 at the same price as the Z5 SLi, comparably built...then which would you pick?


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

carlislegeorge said:


> If I was going custom (more or less), it would likely be standard geometry Cyfac Absolu. But I can get a little discount from either of the LBS involved. So...Here's part 2 of the question...if you could the C59 at the same price as the Z5 SLi, comparably built...then which would you pick?


I've ridden many Cyfac bikes (Nerv, Nerv carbon, Gothica's lugged version, Zona, Infini, Absolu) and have had some saddle time on Parlee bikes (Z3, Z5) courtesy of very generous friends. The ride characteristic of Cyfac carbon frames and Parlee carbon frames are very different. I highly recommend that you test ride both if at all possible to make sure that you like what you are getting. 

The workmanship of both are really excellent, so you can't go wrong with either. 

I haven't ridden a carbon Colnago in a very long time, so I can't comment on Colnago.


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## B2 (Mar 12, 2002)

I would think that these two frames would have quite different handling characteristics. Colnago has a long history of slack HTA and large trail frames (60mm - 65mm). Since they don't publish the HTA of the C59 I can only assume this is still the case since it really is their biggest distinguishing factor. The Parlee is more traditional in this regard having a trail in the mid 50's. 

I know the trail component is not the only factor involved and some might argue that differences in trail only create minor differences in handling, but in this case the difference in HTA (and trail) is significant enough to distinguish the handling of the two frames. Personally I prefer Colnago's geometry. In my experience, nothing descends better.


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

Kontact said:


> ....Just curious - why the stock Z5 over a custom Z2/Z3? I believe either will be cheaper than a stock C59, and have those gorgeous and functional Ti dropouts plus custom paint.


I can get some discount in either the Z5 or the C59. Not so sure about getting one if going custom. So hadn't really considered it.

I can get a better discount on the Colnago. Hence part 2 of my question...if the price for the Parlee Z5 SLi partial build is about the same as a comparable partial build on the Colnago C59, does that influence the decision? This isn't a "money no object exercise for me" and I'm eager to demo a Z5 SL next week to see if I can feel the "feel"...but I also have respect for some of the wise folks on RBR (scary thought that).


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

carlislegeorge said:


> I can get some discount in either the Z5 or the C59. Not so sure about getting one if going custom. So hadn't really considered it.
> 
> I can get a better discount on the Colnago. Hence part 2 of my question...if the price for the Parlee Z5 SLi partial build is about the same as a comparable partial build on the Colnago C59, does that influence the decision? This isn't a "money no object exercise for me" and I'm eager to demo a Z5 SL next week to see if I can feel the "feel"...but I also have respect for some of the wise folks on RBR (scary thought that).



Try setting them up with the same length stem ( no more than a size different) and handlebar height. Then take them to the same hill and see how they do on a fast decent, how they hold the line on out-of-the saddle sprint and whether either is more maneuverable than you would consider comfortable. These drills should highlight the main differences between them.
When you do that, you will become the expert on how each of these bikes wants to treat you based on what you want to do with it and how good you are doing it.


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## Lionel (Nov 22, 2004)

B2 said:


> I would think that these two frames would have quite different handling characteristics. Colnago has a long history of slack HTA and large trail frames (60mm - 65mm). Since they don't publish the HTA of the C59 I can only assume this is still the case since it really is their biggest distinguishing factor. The Parlee is more traditional in this regard having a trail in the mid 50's.


Colnago trail depends on the size as they only use 43mm offset forks. In the larger sizes their trail is pretty normal actually.


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## B2 (Mar 12, 2002)

Lionel said:


> Colnago trail depends on the size as they only use 43mm offset forks. In the larger sizes their trail is pretty normal actually.


Yes - With their consistent 43mm fork offset and a varying HTA (with size) the trail does get to be more typical at ~59cm traditional frame size and higher. I ride a 57cm frame and the trail is 64.5mm. The 59cm frame is ~58.4mm. 

Here's a 2004 geometry chart that (I think) Competitive Cyclist had at the time. Where they got the HTA's, whether or not they're accurate and whether or not the C59 has similar HTAs I don't know.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

carlislegeorge said:


> ...............I'm not racing, just an old guy with an itch for something new and expensive and less common (and perhaps more money than sense). ...


I was there a few months ago.

I found a "deal" by getting a Parlee dealer's personal bike frame as he was getting a newer model.

The model was a Z4 which is a "production model" - not made in USA.

However it rides and handles like a dream. The other thing I like is that it is very, very quiet, even on rough roads or brick. That's unlike the ti bikes I've owned and the one I still have.

If I win the big lottery, I'm getting the Z5 SLi for sure!


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

Update...finally did the demo ride on Parlee Z5 SL. Size ML with Tall headtube. Set up to the same measurements as my current size 56 Tarmac SL3. Nice long ride with twisty descents and steep not so long climbs. This is a much different feel than the Spesh SL3, or the Colnago C50 I demo-ed. Butter smooth, at times it felt like the bike disappeared under me. I could sense a slight difference in steering versus the Colnago, but still a good feeling of being "planted" and very stable. The Colnago is a very nice bike, but I didn't get the same "wow" difference that came with Parlee.

Almost ready to pull the trigger, you can guess my choice. However, I am starting to second guess myself on the Tall headtube, it's a 25mm difference in my size. But it's only 13mm longer then the Tarmac I've been riding, and only 4mm longer than the size 54s C59. Am pretty sure the Tall headtube contributes to the overall road feel. I just wish spending all this money would make the engine faster.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

"Set up to the same measurements as my current Tarmac SL3. *....... However, I am starting to second guess myself on the Tall headtube, "

I'm confused. If it is set up the same (for fit) and it rides that well, why would you care at all about the headtube length?
Just wondering.


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

Good point. Was just wondering if there might be a difference, hate to overlook any option. Could it get even better? But I do agree, makes sense to go with the Tall if it feels that good.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

My hunch is we will see some dramatic, yet seemingly subtle, changes in road bikes the next few years.
Look at all the Roubaix-like bikes appearing the last 10 days. Trek and BMC both have one.
Make a "comfort" style bike, make it very aero, add deep carbon rims /wheels, disc brakes of course so you can actually stop quickly, 11 (or is it 12 now) speed electronic shifting with all cables and battery integrated in the frame, and paint it any color EXCEPT red and black. That's close to the ultimate ride, right? It's only assumed the weight would be at the UCI limit.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

carlislegeorge said:


> Update...finally did the demo ride on Parlee Z5 SL. Size ML with Tall headtube. Set up to the same measurements as my current size 56 Tarmac SL3. Nice long ride with twisty descents and steep not so long climbs. This is a much different feel than the Spesh SL3, or the* Colnago C50* I demo-ed. Butter smooth, at times it felt like the bike disappeared under me. I could sense a slight difference in steering versus the Colnago, but still a good feeling of being "planted" and very stable. The Colnago is a very nice bike, but I didn't get the same "wow" difference that came with Parlee.
> 
> Almost ready to pull the trigger, you can guess my choice. However, I am starting to second guess myself on the Tall headtube, it's a 25mm difference in my size. But it's only 13mm longer then the Tarmac I've been riding, and only 4mm longer *than the size 54s C59*. Am pretty sure the Tall headtube contributes to the overall road feel. I just wish spending all this money would make the engine faster.


Now _*I *_am confused. Did you test the C50 or the C59? Thought you were choosing between the C59 and Z5. I have heard the C50 (and most Colnagos) don't provide the "Wow" effect. It's only after more time in the saddle do most people truly appreciate the nuances of Colnago handling and characteristics. I know I was like that. My first Nag was an Aluminum/Carbon Mix. I thought it was a pretty nice ride, but nothing spectacular. In fact, I was considering selling it. My Fondriest Carb Level was lighter and more nimble. My Kestrel Talon was more aero and a tad smoother. But it was only after riding the Mix for a year on the long downhills of Left Hand Canyon and Sunshine Canyon in Boulder, CO that it really hit me how incredible the handling was compared to everything else I had ridden. On the faster downhill sections, I noticed that I could really lean the bike over more without feeling skittish. I eventually bought an Extreme C and a C40 because of my revelation on the Mix. Love the Nags! LOVE! 

Sorry for the long-winded talk about my experience with Colnago. I honestly think there is nothing that handles better. But I also have a good friend who has had almost every high-end bike made (except a Crumpton), and he said that the best he ever rode was the Extreme Power. And this guy had Pinarellos (new Prince, new Dogma), Times (VXRS, VXR, RXR), Looks (595, 585 Ultra, 586), Cervelos, Specializeds, Bianchis, Treks, , Cyfac (I think), *Parlee (Z1)* and other frames (that I can't even recall). Granted he is not into steel and Ti. 

Anyhow, I am sure that the Z5 is a killer bike. I would have no problems with adding one to my stable!:thumbsup:

Good luck in your purchase.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

The Parlee sounds better suited to your riding, the tall headtube would only be an issue if you feel the front end flex, which on your size likely isn't an issue - you can test this by alternating torque on the bars to see if the front end feels wobbly - and there's the option of the same size with a shorter head tube. If the head tube tapers, then that would also help make the front end stiffer. The Colnago at 6K with a 2 year warranty is a bit crazy to me.


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

Ride-Fly said:


> Now _*I *_am confused. Did you test the C50 or the C59? Thought you were choosing between the C59 and Z5. I have heard the C50 (and most Colnagos) don't provide the "Wow" effect....


True, I haven't had the chance to demo the C59, only a C50, and I'm trying to make the purchase decision for a C59. And this is living in DC, there isn't an authorized colnago dealer with stock in the store within probably 250 miles....i don't want to wait months or fly to california to demo the C59 ...

I appreciate your passion for the brand, and if I could afford a stable of high end bikes, I would definitely get one. But at the end of the day, it might not be the best fit for my current primary riding style.


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

Not that anyone gives a shite, but i ordered the Parlee, after serious deliberation. Pictures will be somewhere in the back after it gets built, or on the weightweenie forum parlee thread.

Best advice I got from thread came from Kontakt. Thanks to all for input.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

I think you'll love it. I like mine more each and every ride. 
Already planning my ultimate Parlee with electronic shifting, in about 3 more years (ha).


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## Nhat Huy (Apr 15, 2012)

Vote for Parlee.


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## santosjep (Jul 15, 2004)

*Been following this thread and held my tounge... *



carlislegeorge said:


> Not that anyone gives a shite, but i ordered the Parlee, after serious deliberation. Pictures will be somewhere in the back after it gets built, or on the weightweenie forum parlee thread.
> 
> Best advice I got from thread came from Kontakt. Thanks to all for input.


Hi! Congrats on your decision. It was a tough choice. If you haven't ridden a Parlee, the most obvious decision was the C59. In all honestly, that, the CX1 and the EPS are my favorite choices in 'Nago's line. 

Fantastic that you could get a demo ride on the Parlee. In my opinion, it's those demo rides on Parlee bikes that creates converts and fans. If I hadn't ridden a Parlee, my money would have been on the 'Nago and probably ask you to check out the EPS. I held my opinions as they might turn out to be a little biased towards Parlee. Like you, after a demo ride (35 miles), I was hooked. This was back in 2008. Your brief review of your ride earlier on this thread was very similar to what I've encountered during that Fall day I went over a Z4 for the very first time. Three and a half years later (and 3 Parlee bikes), I'm still a very big fan.

Great bike, great ride, great value.... now what? What separates Parlee Cycles from the rest of the bikes in the sea of quality high-end bikes. In my experience, their attention to customer service.... correction.... customer hapiness. I always fondly remember my first call to Parlee. 

The bike felt great but there was this slight de-lam/nick no bigger than 1/4 of a nickle on the downtube. I got the bike from my LBS that had left-over Z4's from '07 and was dropping the Parlee line in '08 (BTW, just got word from them and they are picking them up again this year). It was a great deal on a floor model. Called Parlee and a guy named Tom picked up. We talked for about 20 minutes about biking before closing into my question (nice touch. I like shop talk). At the end of the conversation, he asked me to send my Z4, within a couple of days had an answer and a resolve that was above and beyond my expectation. The fact that I'm local to MA helped (No shipping). I just picked up the frame in their shop... stayed for a couple of hours, got a tour of the facility and wished I brought with me a 12 pack. Nice bunch of people. I had support even if my LBS didn't carry Parlee anymore at that time and that for me was a big win. So, three bikes later... I still have room for a 4th Parlee.

I know people who share the same experience not only with Parlee but a few other fabricators. Seven and Cyfac are also great in the customer hapiness department from experience and genuine accounts of friends I trust. There's more out there, I feel customer support should be part of criteria for bike purchase.

Congrats again and please post a pic of your build .

Best,

Joe


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## danesta (Nov 15, 2010)

Parlee all the way


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

*Parlee Z5 SLi in Dura Ace - here it is at long last*

Took delivery last week and finally got the maiden ride in today...sublime!
Size M/L with Tall HT option.
Frame weight out of the box was 830 grams, uncut fork was 310 grams.
Many thanks to Matt at All American Bikes in Damascus, MD. 
Waiting on new Arundel Mandible cages and we're done (for now).
Anyone want to buy a nice Tarmac Project Black which is going to gather dust now?


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## lawr (Sep 5, 2007)

*geocarlislerge*



geocarlislerge said:


> Took delivery last week and finally got the maiden ride in today...sublime!
> Size M/L with Tall HT option.
> Frame weight out of the box was 830 grams, uncut fork was 310 grams.
> Many thanks to Matt at All American Bikes in Damascus, MD.
> ...


I was thinking of a Z5 same size as yours - I'll test one - just wondering - how tall you are and do you know your inseam. Nice bike, enjoy the ride. Thanks.


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

lawr said:


> I was thinking of a Z5 same size as yours - I'll test one - just wondering - how tall you are and do you know your inseam. Nice bike, enjoy the ride. Thanks.


I am just over 5'11" with a 31.5 inseam and 34.5 arms. The M/L size is perfect for me with a 110 stem.


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## jhamlin38 (Oct 29, 2005)

looks awesome. I'd prefer a seatpost with setback at the top, to keep the aesthetics simpler/cleaner. but its hard to find fault in thompson products. looks like a bike that will last and be sensational for 10 years.


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

jhamlin38 said:


> looks awesome. I'd prefer a seatpost with setback at the top, to keep the aesthetics simpler/cleaner. but its hard to find fault in thompson products. looks like a bike that will last and be sensational for 10 years.


I struggled with the seat post decision myself, wanting to stay loyal to Thomson. Any recommendations besides Enve?


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## Levendis (Oct 6, 2011)

carlislegeorge,
So how is your new ride? 
It's time for me to replace my 4 year old carbon bike as well and I would be grateful if you could share your riding and ownership experience on the the Z5, in particular how it compares to your spesh project black (I assume it's an SL4 as well?) Many thanks.


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

I have a little more assessment and update back in the "other builders" forum, check the link below:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/other-builders/new-parlee-z5-sli-280497.html


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

carlislegeorge said:


> I struggled with the seat post decision myself, wanting to stay loyal to Thomson. Any recommendations besides Enve?


I own a Z5SL M/L, and went from a Thomson Masterpiece setback seatpost to an Easton EC90. It adjusts angle in a similar fashion, although it's missing the very cool hash marks of the Thomson, which made it very easy to dial in after swapping saddles.

I find the carbon Easton EC90 more comfortable than the aluminum Thomson Masterpiece.


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## MXL (Jun 26, 2012)

carlislegeorge said:


> Took delivery last week and finally got the maiden ride in today...sublime!
> Size M/L with Tall HT option.
> Frame weight out of the box was 830 grams, uncut fork was 310 grams.
> Many thanks to Matt at All American Bikes in Damascus, MD.
> ...


Nice bike! Too bad they forgot to put a little paint on that primer.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

My Z5SL
https://forums.roadbikereview.com/images/attach/jpg.gif


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

beauty! which ENVE wheelset?


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

carlislegeorge said:


> beauty! which ENVE wheelset?


Thank you.

Enve 3.4 clincher. Tune 70 Mig/170 Mag hubs.


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

I'm thinking of that exact wheelset as well. Any issue with those hubs, what was your decision process?


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

carlislegeorge said:


> I'm thinking of that exact wheelset as well. Any issue with those hubs, what was your decision process?


I was targeting a lightweight build. Received a good deal of info from Jason at Fairwheel Bikes (from whom I purchased the wheel set). Dependability of Tune vs. Alchemy seemed to be about equal according to the research and feedback I was provided. Warranty is better from Alchemy...but the hubs require special tools that might not be available at all bike shops, and Tune hubs do not.

Persuasive arguments can be made for each brand.

If reliability and dependability had priority over weight, I would have gone with Chris King R45 hubs without any hesitation.

I have Alchemy hubs on my HED Belgium wheel set, and I have had no problems in a year of riding 52 weeks/year in So California.

FWIW, I weigh ~150 lbs.


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## Jtolson80 (Sep 14, 2014)

*After owning Both, What is the Verdict?*

_Against my better judgment, I am throwing this out for opinions and comments...

_Dear Carlislegeorge, 
It appears you now own both of the bikes you were evaluating. You seem very happy with the Parlee (love how you set it up), but didn't see much feedback on the C59 purchase. I'm a few years behind you, but evaluating similar decision. 

I've been able to ride the C59, it was an awesome ride. Only hesitation is saddle to bar drop is a touch more than I'd like. I found a demo frame, so cost would be same as Parlee. Options to test the Parlee (Z5 or Altum) are looking bleak at this point.

I've already ridden and eliminated a lot of the other options out there. The Parlee appears to be my best fit without going full custom geo (shorter wheel base/taller HT).

I'm a clyde. I'll be using as RR/club ride/climbing bike. I'll be keeping my current Orbea as a winter/trainer/maybe crit bike.

Would love to hear your feedback after owning both.If I can only have 1, which would you recommend?j 
Thank you


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

Great question. To be honest, I'd most likely have the Parlee if I could only have one. In fact, I'm thinking about selling the C59 with less than 1000 miles on it, before it gets dinged up. 

But, that's just me. The Colnago is a fantastic bike, don't get me wrong. But the Z5 SLi still feels more "me" in ways that are hard to explain. Had both of them tweaked in Retul fit, and these bikes are configured exactly the same in terms of wheels, handlebar, stem, pedals. The head tube on the C59 is not short at all, don't let that worry you. If it was me, I'd have a hard time buying the Parlee without getting a good test ride, but on the other hand, every Z5 SLi owner I've talked to or read of absolutely loves theirs.

2014 C59 AD04 size 54s










2012 Parlee Z5 SLi (custom paint) size M/L-Tall












Jtolson80 said:


> _Against my better judgment, I am throwing this out for opinions and comments...
> 
> _Dear Carlislegeorge,
> It appears you now own both of the bikes you were evaluating. You seem very happy with the Parlee (love how you set it up), but didn't see much feedback on the C59 purchase. I'm a few years behind you, but evaluating similar decision.
> ...


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Get the Parlee with custom paint. You'll have a sweet ride that's unique on the road.


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

chuckice said:


> One is Colnago...the other is who cares.


Additionally, one is made in China for pennies on the dollar, the other in a country that makes some heirloom quality items and pays a proper living wage.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Notvintage said:


> Additionally, one is made in China for pennies on the dollar, the other in a country that makes some heirloom quality items and pays a proper living wage.


Parlee is made in China?


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Notvintage said:


> Additionally, one is made in China for pennies on the dollar, the other in a country that makes some heirloom quality items and pays a proper living wage.


The usual xenophobic BS. To begin with, the Z5Sli/C59 comparison is apples-to-oranges. If one is looking to compare flagship frames, then one must compare Parlee Z1 to Colnago C60. This is apples-to-apples. In this case, each model is a hand made lug-and-tube frame built in the USA (Parlee) or Italy (Colnago).

Colnago makes _all_ its frames in Asia _except for two_; C59 & C60. Both excellent frames, but neither custom.

Parlee makes _all_ its frames in Asia _except for it's top-of-the-line custom Z1_, which can be built to any geometry and offers an array of tubes to tune the ride.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

pmf said:


> Parlee is made in China?


Yes, except the custom Z1. Just like all the Colnago bikes except the C59 & C60.

So if you want an apples to apples Parlee to Colnago then compare the Z1 made in Massachusetts. The Z1 can be built according to your desire for specific ride quality, because Parlee offers several tube options than can stiffen or soften the ride, and affect responsiveness and liveliness of the frame.

Here's a bonus with the Parlee Asian frames: custom paint. All Parlee custom painting is done in the USA.


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

The C59/C60 is standard geometry assembled in Italy, with tubes and lugs etc. Other Colnagos are from molds and made in Asia. No big deal. He asked me, as the owner of both, what is my #1. That's what I answered.


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## Jtolson80 (Sep 14, 2014)

*Thank you*

Thank you Carlislegeorge.

The HT on the Colnago is definitely on the larger side, however the Parlee fit is just a touch better (I think). It appears the new Altum even has some additional options with the new top cap.

I know it can be hard to translate a sensation into words.
I'm trying to find something that moves effortless underneath when I'm out of the saddle climbing, that is quick/precise in the front end, stable at 50mph, but that is also stiff enough that when I throw all 200+ pounds of power into a sprint, it leaps forward.
The C59 seemed to do all of these things pretty well.
I also rode a Moots RSL, that handled/cornered even better than the C59, but not stiff enough under load.

If you think the Parlee responds as well under load and can react/corner as precisely as the C59, thats ultimately what I'm looking to hear.


To the other posters, I have a lot of faith in the LBS folks I'm working with. I believe that in the event I had an issue with either Colnago or Parlee, I'd be taken care of. To me, thats what really matters.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Parlee Warranty - Lifetime
Colnago Warranty - 3 years


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## socrates (Sep 1, 2006)

Fondriest TFZero????????


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

Jtolson80 said:


> ....If you think the Parlee responds as well under load and can react/corner as precisely as the C59, thats ultimately what I'm looking to hear....


Don't take my word for it. I do think my Parlee Z5 SLi reacts and corners very precisely, and I have no concerns going fast downhill. I'm not a lightweight either. Properly set up, they're very very very close. The nature of the Parlee ride is different in that the bike does seem to almost disappear underneath me at times, especially when I'm fresh and going uphill, but it is also "stiff" enough to feel the acceleration when force is applied just as much as the Colnago. The C59 is simply rock solid and the best example I've ever ridden of a bike that feels like its on rails no matter what. There are no weak spots, at least within my meager capacity to fully exploit the capability of either bike.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

carlislegeorge said:


> The C59 is simply rock solid and the best example I've ever ridden of a bike that feels like its on rails no matter what.


The Pinarello Dogma 2 felt that way to me. Very nice. Sluggish, though, compared to the Z5Sli which I also owned at the time.


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

tvad said:


> The Pinarello Dogma 2 felt that way to me. Very nice. Sluggish, though, compared to the Z5Sli which I also owned at the time.


did you wind up keeping either?


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

I'm very happy with the performance of my parlee z5i.. Climbing is great.. I was a little apprehensive with fast descents at first but I'm getting faster and faster..
My second ride out I was glad I was on this bike because if I had been on my usual bike I might not be posting.. Almost had a head on with an suv . Evasive maneuvers with the parlee was great. On my old bike I would have been more tempted to bomb it down this familiar road.. Would have left me going at least 5-10mph faster and no where to go with a vehicle grill looking at me.. In my side of the road


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

carlislegeorge said:


> did you wind up keeping either?


Kept the Parlee Z5Sli


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## Jtolson80 (Sep 14, 2014)

Not sure if this reply was to me or not.
TFZero geo doesn't work for me.
I need 55-56TopTube/ 180-90HT/ Reach of 385 or less, stack of 585+ (C59 is close), with a Wheelbase of sub 990
a 55 TT would allow me to run longer stem.
But finding a 55TT/185HT/sub 990 = custom. The parlee appears to be the closest


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

carlislegeorge said:


> Against my better judgment, I am throwing this out for opinions and comments...
> 
> I am in the process of choosing between a C59 and a Z5 SLi. Have had a demo ride on a C50 and will also do a demo ride on a Z5 SL. Can anyone that has appropriate experience give more detailed riding impressions between the two? I'm not racing, just an old guy with an itch for something new and expensive and less common (and perhaps more money than sense). Currently very comfortable on a 2011 Tarmac Pro SL3 Dura Ace at about 15.7 pounds,but ultra light is not a goal. Just want to get a sense if there are any positive traits with the C59 I'd be giving up. Bike will be built with Dura Ace Di2.
> 
> Off topic and humorous comments will be accepted and evaluated at face value...


Both are good bikes. The Parlee is a little lighter, the Colnago a bit more forgiving on rides and more plush. Both are capable race and century bike. Colnago's are special, and in my opinion hold their value and appeal even when not the current model. As capable as the Parlee is I don't see that being the case(also unlike the Z0, Z1 and to a lesser extent the Z3 the Z5 is a mass market bike built in Asia). While costing a bit more, I'd say go Colnago, and in fact I did.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Trek_5200 said:


> Colnago's...in my opinion hold their value and appeal even when not the current model. As capable as the Parlee is I don't see that being the case.


True. Colnago bikes hold their value far better than Parlee bikes, which lose value rapidly.

If residual value is a key factor, then Colnago is the better choice.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

A better comparison might be between the Z3 & C59. The Z3 can be ordered with English threaded bottom bracket and uses lugs. That said, the Colnago would still have the better paint scheme, but you could customize the tubing on the Z3 for your body weight and ride style.


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## Zampano (Aug 7, 2005)

C60 is available as custom.


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

Trek_5200 said:


> A better comparison might be between the Z3 & C59. The Z3 can be ordered with English threaded bottom bracket and uses lugs. That said, the Colnago would still have the better paint scheme, but you could customize the tubing on the Z3 for your body weight and ride style.


you can get a custom paint job from Parlee ( @ extra $$$/$) and they can do some pretty wild stuff. True some Parlees lose value fast or seem to loose value if you compare MSRP to used price... but I doubt people are paying MSRP on Z5's. I would love to have a Z0 personally, but would be a shame to paint those.. I considered a C60 before getting my Z5i... I'm happy with my decision thus far, not knocking the C60 is anyway.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

Zampano said:


> C60 is available as custom.


That's what they say, but I'm not sure if in practice you'd find that an easy option. They also say you can get a non-sloping C-60, but I've not heard a single bike shop carry one.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

spdntrxi said:


> you can get a custom paint job from Parlee ( @ extra $$$/$) and they can do some pretty wild stuff. True some Parlees lose value fast or seem to loose value if you compare MSRP to used price... but I doubt people are paying MSRP on Z5's. I would love to have a Z0 personally, but would be a shame to paint those.. I considered a C60 before getting my Z5i... I'm happy with my decision thus far, not knocking the C60 is anyway.


Parlee makes nice bikes and the Z5 is ending its run. There could be deals to be made. I thought about getting a Z-1, not a Z-5( I like threaded bottom bracket's) but I did not need custom. I was able to get a proper fit on my C-59 without going that route.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

spdntrxi said:


> ...I doubt people are paying MSRP on Z5's.


Maybe not, but the markup is very slim, and varies by how many frames a dealer purchases. I was surprised at low little my LBS was making on the sale.

This is a beautiful bike, IMO...









And Parlee can do anything you want, including something like this...


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

tvad said:


> Maybe not, but the markup is very slim, and varies by how many frames a dealer purchases. I was surprised at low little my LBS was making on the sale.
> 
> This is a beautiful bike, IMO...
> 
> ...


O I love that Parlee... since I sold my Look 695, I don't know what to do with my La Vie Claire clothes..


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