# Opinions on Boyd Vitesse/Altamont vs. custom wheel



## DavyJ (Jan 23, 2014)

Hey guys, so I'm in the market for some new wheels and, after extensive research, have narrowed it down to these wheels:

- 2013 Boyd Vitesse- 28 depth, 23 width, 20/24 w/CX-Ray spoke, 1550g @ $550

- Boyd Altamont (new Vitesse)- 30mm depth, 24mm width, 20/24 w/ CX-Ray spoke, 1541g @ $650

- Custom Set- Pacenti SL23 (26mm depth, 24mm width), DT Swiss 350 road hub, 28/28 Sapim Laser spokes, 1568g, $578

I would love to hear what anyone has to say about any of the part or wheel listed above and your opinions! Personally, I really like the wideness of the Boyd hubs for added stiffness but the easy maintenance and abundance of replacement parts for the DT 350's is also appealing. On the Boyd's, I also like the lower spoke count (as the 350's only come as 28h) but I know a higher spoke count will lead to a more durable and stiffer wheel. FWIW I am 135lbs and do a little of everything, long solo riding, group riding, and racing. Looking for the wheel that will just be a good all around wheel (isn't that what everybody wants). Thanks!


----------



## aruizdelhoyo (Jul 9, 2012)

hello,

im also in the market for a new set of wheels but don't want to spend too much. i went to bikehubstore.com was able to put together a nice set for about $230. Now I just need to wait till they come in and take them to my LBS so they can put them together since i'm not very experienced on how to do it.

check them out, you might find something you like, lighter and at a good price.


----------



## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

I don't have any experience with Boyd wheels but hear good things about them.
I think the Pacenti SL23 is probably the best rim out there.
At your weight you could easily go 20F/24R.
For a budget build you could go with BHS hubs.
If you want higher quality hubs you could go with White Industries T11 which are a great value.


----------



## DavyJ (Jan 23, 2014)

Interesting, thank you. The only thing is that, if I wanted to go for a higher quality hub, I'd probably have to downgrade the rim in order to stay at or around my target budget of $600. That interesting though that you think the Pacenti SL23 is one of the best out there. I would like to get them but 28F/28R seems really high. If you had to choose one of the options I posted, which one would you choose and why?


----------



## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Why are you looking to upgrade? What do your top three picks offers that you current wheels don't?


----------



## pushstart (Feb 5, 2012)

Agreed that at your weight 20/24 sounds like it would probably suffice -- even with shallower rims. The SL23 rims are available with other drillings, so I don't see any reason to think you have to stick with 28h. And the 350 hubs may be good but BHS hubs are lighter, cheaper, and seem to hold up very well. Or other hubs mentioned like WI. Or Novatec with EZO bearings.

If I was building a rim-brake wheelset, I would do the SL23 20/24 with Laser spokes to BHS hubs, probably one of the wide front hubs and SL210 rear (or even UL190). Relatively economical wheelset and quite light.


----------



## DavyJ (Jan 23, 2014)

Well, weight it a big factor but also bearings. My current hubs are no-names that came stock on the bike and they have, I guess, free ball bearing? Not cartridge bearings. I've been having trouble with noises coming from the rear hub over the past couple of months and have been overhauling the hub at least once a month, which has been very time consuming. The races are becoming very worn and same with the bearings even with all the maintenance. I got a bike mechanic to look at the races and he said I had another year left at max so I figured, it be good to go ahead and invest in new wheels and use the old ones on the trainer.


----------



## pushstart (Feb 5, 2012)

BHS hubs use Enduro stainless steel cartridge bearings. They are easily replaceable, though I haven't had to do it yet. My commuter BHS-hub wheels probably have about 8k miles on them now. Those are actually disc hubs which get a lot of all-weather abuse, but I would expect similar -- or better -- performance from the road hubs.


----------



## DavyJ (Jan 23, 2014)

Huh, I'll have to look more into those hubs. The reason I would go with 28 is that that is the only configuration 350's come with. Now, I'm a relative noob at wheel configurations so, what is the advantage of going wide in the front? I really appreciate you're input and I'll definitely look more into your suggestion but if you had to, which wheelset would you pick from the original choices?


----------



## DavyJ (Jan 23, 2014)

Interesting, I hadn't heard of them before, must not be researching hard enough. Now, I do know that Boyd also uses Enduro bearing. Thanks for your input, I really appreciate it!


----------



## pushstart (Feb 5, 2012)

Sure, from your list, I would choose the newer Boyd wheels for the extra width and depth without sacrificing weight. The advantage to wide rims is cornering traction, maybe rolling resistance and aero benefits due to tire profile (u-shape instead of lightbulb). Wide rims are great. The advantage to using a wide-geometry hub is increased bracing angle, so stiffer wheel. For a deeper rim like the Boyd that may not be as important. (Deeper=stiffer)


----------



## DavyJ (Jan 23, 2014)

Interesting, thank you very much for your input! The although the width the of new Boyd and the Pacenti are the same, like you, the depth of the Boyd as well as the wide hub really appealed to me.


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

You need some bearing knowledge. Cartridge bearings are not necessarily better than loose ball bearings. Campy and Shimano both use loose ball designs. Not much wrong with either of those hubs.


----------



## DavyJ (Jan 23, 2014)

No, yeah, I completely agree that loose ball bearings don't make hubs bad. The thing is, loose ball bearings, from my experience, are more of a hassle to maintain as everything is cakes with grease when you open the hubs up. On my current wheels, I can't get to the free hub pawls without going through the bearings, which can be a very messy process. The idea that you can just pop off the free hub and service the pawls/ratchets and just pop out the cartridge bearing and replace them without too much of a mess appeals to me.


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

That makes sense:thumbsup:


----------



## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

DavyJ said:


> Interesting, thank you. The only thing is that, if I wanted to go for a higher quality hub, I'd probably have to downgrade the rim in order to stay at or around my target budget of $600. That interesting though that you think the Pacenti SL23 is one of the best out there. I would like to get them but 28F/28R seems really high. If you had to choose one of the options I posted, which one would you choose and why?


If my budget was $600 I would go with Pacenti rims and BHS hubs.
Then I would be getting the best rims and descent lightweight hubs.
I don't personally have experience with BHS hubs but they seem to be highly regarded here so I would give them a try. You can order everything from BHS and get free shipping I think. In case you didn't know, tires can be very hard to mount on Pacenti rims and it requires tools and/ or practice to do it. Also I found Stan's yellow tape is best to use for the rim tape. You might want to use thicker spokes like Sapim race on the rear DS because there will be too much wind up using Lasers. I have used hubs with both loose and cartridge bearings dating back to 1980s Campy hubs. I prefer cartridge bearings IME they are smoother and require no maintenance other than replacement of the bearing cartridge every few years. With loose bearings once the race inside the hub is damaged they will never be smooth again. If you want go cheaper you can get the same rims used on the Boyd Vitesse wheels from BHS. It will be a tiny bit heavier and rim quality is not quite as good but I hear they are strong rims. If you want something already built then just get the Boyd's.


----------



## DavyJ (Jan 23, 2014)

jnbrown said:


> If my budget was $600 I would go with Pacenti rims and BHS hubs.
> Then I would be getting the best rims and descent lightweight hubs.
> I don't personally have experience with BHS hubs but they seem to be highly regarded here so I would give them a try. You can order everything from BHS and get free shipping I think. In case you didn't know, tires can be very hard to mount on Pacenti rims and it requires tools and/ or practice to do it. Also I found Stan's yellow tape is best to use for the rim tape. You might want to use thicker spokes like Sapim race on the rear DS because there will be too much wind up using Lasers. I have used hubs with both loose and cartridge bearings dating back to 1980s Campy hubs. I prefer cartridge bearings IME they are smoother and require no maintenance other than replacement of the bearing cartridge every few years. With loose bearings once the race inside the hub is damaged they will never be smooth again. If you want go cheaper you can get the same rims used on the Boyd Vitesse wheels from BHS. It will be a tiny bit heavier and rim quality is not quite as good but I hear they are strong rims. If you want something already built then just get the Boyd's.


Huh, that;s very interesting, thank you! Now, two quick questions, I have heard some rim tape doesn't fit such a wide rim such as the Pacenti's, is it from your experience that Stan's yellow tape fits these rims? Also, what you cause wind up in the spokes and if you think a Laser would have windup, does that also mean that CX-Ray's would also have wind up given that they are pretty much the same spoke?


----------



## DavyJ (Jan 23, 2014)

pushstart said:


> If I was building a rim-brake wheelset, I would do the SL23 20/24 with Laser spokes to BHS hubs, probably one of the wide front hubs and SL210 rear (or even UL190). Relatively economical wheelset and quite light.


Now you really got me looking at the BHS hubs! Now, since BHS hubs are much cheaper the the DT-Swiss I was looking at, out of all the BHS hubs, which do you thing would be optimal? It seems like for the rear hubs, the main difference between the two you mentioned, the SL210 and UL190, is weight. Is there any other key feature I should be looking a between the two? And for front hubs, what would you recommend? It looks like the SLF85W and the SLF71W are popular (SLF78W being discontinued) and the main difference again is weight but also number of bearings, 2 vs. 4. What are your thoughts?


----------



## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

DavyJ said:


> Huh, that;s very interesting, thank you! Now, two quick questions, I have heard some rim tape doesn't fit such a wide rim such as the Pacenti's, is it from your experience that Stan's yellow tape fits these rims? Also, what you cause wind up in the spokes and if you think a Laser would have windup, does that also mean that CX-Ray's would also have wind up given that they are pretty much the same spoke?


Stan's 21 mm tape fits them perfectly. Since the drive side spokes have higher tension, typically 120 kg the thinner spokes have a tendency to wind up torsionally when tensioning the wheel. Also thicker spokes add some stiffness. CX Rays don't have this problem because they are bladed and you can use a special slotted tool to keep them from twisting when building the wheel.


----------



## DavyJ (Jan 23, 2014)

Ahh gotcha, thank you very much for the info! If I was able to, would you recommend using CX-Rays over the thicker ones like the Races?


----------



## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

DavyJ said:


> Ahh gotcha, thank you very much for the info! If I was able to, would you recommend using CX-Rays over the thicker ones like the Races?


I have used lots of CX Rays in the past. On my last build I went with DT Aerolites (similar to CX Rays) on the front. On the rear I used DT Comps (Sapim Race) on the DS and. DT Revs (Sapim Laser) on the NDS. I went with non bladed spokes on the rear to save some money and I am not sure the aero benefit is as much as it is on the front. I also wanted to use thicker spokes on the DS. These wheels are noticeably stiffer than my previous wheels. Not sure if it is the rim, spokes or a combination. I went with DT spokes because personally I think they make a better spoke, but tons of people use Sapim and they are easy to get.


----------



## DavyJ (Jan 23, 2014)

Interesting, thank you very much!


----------



## DavyJ (Jan 23, 2014)

Would anybody be able to compare the different components of the wheels such as Boyd hubs vs. BHS hubs vs. DT 350's? What about rims also, Boyd rims vs. Pacenti SL23?


----------



## pushstart (Feb 5, 2012)

Yeah, there will be no measurable aero benefit to using bladed spokes (CX Ray) on any of the wheels you mention. (November bicycles did some aero comparison of their 30mm alloy wheels with bladed vs round spokes awhile back and concluded there was no reason to use aero spokes on those wheels.) Maybe a tiny benefit if you are doing 40+mm deep wheels, but even still, the reason to go with aero spokes is more aesthetics and easy building (no windup issues). I do like CX Rays for the ease of building, but they are a lot more expensive. And there's nothing that prevents one from using Lasers on a rear DS; I have done it for one wheelset. Yes, you do have to be careful to unwind the spokes while building, but if you choose a good wheelbuilder this shouldn't be a problem. And check the wheels (or bring them back to the builder for checking) after a couple hundred miles so that any slackening due to unwinding can be fixed. I would just do Lasers all around since they are stronger spokes, but you could do Sapim Race too if you were ok adding a little weight and wanted a little more stiffness from the rear wheel. Or if you were ordering them from afar and didn't have a great deal confidence in the builder. Personally, I would either use a "stock" wheelset from folks like Boyd or November -- who have a great reputation -- or a well-reputed builder site if you want to spec your own parts. Otherwise do the building locally, so you can get support for the wheels without having to ship them.


----------



## DavyJ (Jan 23, 2014)

Ahh, thanks for the spoke info. And about getting the wheels built, I'm a relative noob to all this stuff so it is a little overwhelming to me. I had someone offer to build a set of wheel for me from a reputable online store but that's the pair I would need to go 28F/28R in order to stay under budget. As for ordering parts from a store like BHS, although their prices are good, going through and trying to make sure I have all the right sized parts and everything is a bit overwhelming for me. Also, I don't really know of any reputable wheel builders around me that I could give the parts to for them to build or go to get a wheelset built. Boyd definitely appeals to me because, although it can't spec the parts, it will be already built by quality builders. Now, I must ask, who would you consider as a well-reputable builder site?


----------



## coachboyd (Jan 13, 2008)

A couple quick things on this. Lasers are not stronger than CX Rays. They are the same exact spoke except the CX Ray is flattened. This actually helps with the fatigue life and the CX Ray spokes have the highest fatigue rating out of any spoke on the market, which is why we use them in addition to the light weight, aero properties, and the way they make building up the wheels a lot easier because you don't have to worry about spoke wind up.

With the hubs, we wanted the focus on hub stability and making sure that there was no long end cap on the hub. We want the bearings to be as far out as possible on the axle, not towards the middle which usually places the bearing directly under a flange. 
I wrote a little blog about hub stability, as I feel like it's very overlooked in hub decisions. Boyd Cycling: Hub Stability


----------



## DavyJ (Jan 23, 2014)

Interesting, thank you for pointing out that info about the spokes as well as the improved hub design. However, although the wider and more stable hub appeals to me, a big question I have is durability of the hub and ease of maintenance and accessibility to replacement parts. What are you comments on that?


----------



## pushstart (Feb 5, 2012)

Yeah, to be clear, I meant that Lasers were stronger than Race; I realize they are not stronger than CX Ray -- but thanks for clarifying that point.

@DavJ, I don't have advice on custom builders. I build my own wheels; I started doing because I had some bad experiences with factory wheels and then with over-the-internet custom builds (and because I wanted to learn how). For your case, I would recommend you go with Boyd (or November or Williams) which offer great alloy wheelset options at good prices. The deeper rims will be stiffer than the SL23 and may provide some small aero benefit. Sounds like width-wise they are all loosely equivalent, so that shouldn't be a factor.


----------



## DavyJ (Jan 23, 2014)

Alright, thank you very much for your thoughts and opinions on this, I really appreciate it!


----------



## coachboyd (Jan 13, 2008)

DavyJ said:


> Interesting, thank you for pointing out that info about the spokes as well as the improved hub design. However, although the wider and more stable hub appeals to me, a big question I have is durability of the hub and ease of maintenance and accessibility to replacement parts. What are you comments on that?


We are using standard size bearings (6902 and 6802). The hub is very easy to work on and complete disassembly and reassembly can be done with two 5mm allen wrenches and a 22mm cone wrench. I think since we introduced this hub in early 2013 I've needed to warranty and replaced one rear hub (problem with the pawls). So far no warranties have been needed with the front hubs.

If you needed end caps, pawls, or freehub bodies, then those are proprietary to our hubs and you would have to get that through us (which is fairly common for hub parts).


----------



## DavyJ (Jan 23, 2014)

Okay, interesting. Thank you very much for that info!


----------



## DavyJ (Jan 23, 2014)

Real fast, going back to a custom wheelset, what are your thoughts on Novatech hubs? I found a custom wheelset with Pacenti SL23, Sapim CX-Ray spokes, and Novatech A291SB front and F482SB rear. It's a fair amount than going with WI T11's but still has good spokes and rims. Do Novatech's hold up well and what are some pros and cons of them? Also, what do you think of those models specifically? Sorry for asking so many questions, I just want to make a well informed decision.


----------



## plankspanker (Sep 12, 2010)

Has anyone has gotten their Boyd Altamont's yet?


----------



## coachboyd (Jan 13, 2008)

plankspanker said:


> Has anyone has gotten their Boyd Altamont's yet?


Not yet (well Bike Rumor, Road Bike Action, and some people lucky enough to live in Greenville have had a chance to test them out). The first batch of production rims will be in this week and then we'll immediately begin building them up and shipping them out. Stuff should start heading out to customers this week.


----------



## rredad (Nov 3, 2008)

I've been thru the same scenrio, I have a set ff Vitesse which I bought June 2012. They have a little over 7000 miles on them are are still perfectly true and boy do they roll. Before the Tour de Wyoming, I added a drop of oil to the pawls, since I felt the need to do something, but it wasn't needed at all. I had been researching having a wheel set built up, looking at rims, hubs etc, but when the new Boyd wheel was announced, it was exactly what I wanted, so I'm waiting on the build to be complete. I haven't used the Paceti rim and it was on my short list, but Boyd made my selection a no brainer for me.


----------



## DavyJ (Jan 23, 2014)

That's really good to here, thanks for sharing that! I think you helped make up my mind to go with Boyd's, the new altamonts are just too nice.


----------



## plankspanker (Sep 12, 2010)

Got my shipping notice today so should be rolling on some Boyd Altamont's next week. Will try to put some miles on them and post a review.


----------



## DavyJ (Jan 23, 2014)

Awesome man! Definitely post a review! I ordered mine Wednesday and I cannot wait to get them.


----------



## plankspanker (Sep 12, 2010)

*Boyd Altamont Micro Review*

*Boyd Altamont Micro Review*

*Bike*: Focus Izalco carbon, Boyd Altamont 24/28 wheelset, Conti GP-4000S II 23mm tires. Previous wheels I have owned include DT Swiss, Fulcrum 1/3/5, Mavic (many), Campy sew-ups and many sets of track and MTB wheels.

*Engine*: 225 lb fast recreational rider, @ 200 miles/week, more in summer, SoCal mostly good roads with moderate hills. 

*First Impressions*: great communications and service from Boyd, took about 2.5 weeks after I ordered them, mostly due to slow UPS ground cross country. Nice packaging, comes with good skewers and sticker. My front wheel was out of true and required some tweaking but was able to get there eventually. Rims are shiny black with etched “decals”, black spokes and are stealthy in appearance compared to wheels with stickers all over the place. 

My usual 25mm Conti GP-4000S tires when mounted on the Altamont’s were HUGE and could not fit in the fork so I had to go down to 23mm tires. The width of the rims at 24mm change the tire profile and height significantly compared to narrower rims so plan accordingly. The 23mm Conti’s fit nicely and have a seamless aero profile which I suppose is good if you care about that kind of thing. Brakes needed to be widened and pads relocated but a pretty easy process. Nice clean machining on the brake track and good stopping power on hills with no squeals. 

*Performance*: the wheels roll up to speed pretty fast and have a nice smooth feel. The hub is moderately loud when freewheeling but not to the point where it is annoying. Cornering is good although I have to disqualify myself here since I went from 25 to a different model of 23 tires and that probably accounts for more in the handling department than a change in wheels. Climbing was good; the wheels feel pretty light and stiff for clinchers and I was able to mash gears both sitting and out of the saddle and bomb up some hills seemingly faster than usual. They certainly feel faster than my last wheels and I knocked a few minutes off my usual training ride, but this could be placebo effect, different tires, who knows….

*Bottom Line*: I like these wheels a lot and would buy them again. Although I only have a few hundred miles on them, they are built well and the components are of good quality so I hope to have them for a while. I think you need a couple thousand miles in varying conditions to really tell how good a wheel is, but I am pretty happy with these so far. This is a pretty small sample size but I know people are jonesing for more info so there ya go.


----------



## DavyJ (Jan 23, 2014)

Very nice, I love the review! I got mine about a week ago but I literally just posted my review also. Given, I'm pretty new to the forums and don't know all the formalities yet but your review is much more in-depth and detailed than mine, I bet it'd fit well in my thread, Boyd Altamont Pics and Review. I have no idea if this is how the forum works or not but just on idea. One again, very nice review and the wheels sure so look good on your bike!


----------



## plankspanker (Sep 12, 2010)

Oh man, sorry - I didn't know there was another thread. Your pictures are much better than mine. :blush2:


----------

