# Inherited a vintage Peugeot



## Jaded Grunt (Dec 18, 2009)

I inherited an old Peugeot road bike from my father in law. I know nothing about road bikes. Here's what I know about this. It's a 12 speed. It's got a Carbolite 103 frame. If I measured right it's a 56 cm frame with a 56 cm toptube. The rear derailleur is a Sachs Huret Rival. The front is a Sachs Huret. The crank is a Nervar. The brakes are Weinmann. It was puchased in the early to mid 80s. Everything mechanical is in great shape. It was barely ridden. The cassette and chainrings look brand new with no wear. It shifts flawlessly (although having the shifters on the frame is kinda annoying). The brake pads have very little wear but they're old, noisy and don't stop me quickly at all. Can these be upgraded? Would new pads do the trick? The tires are original and definitely need to be replaced but they hold air and they're getting me around for now. 

So as for my questions. First of all, how do I figure out whether or not it fits me right? I'm 5'11" with a 32" inseam. It doesn't fit me badly but it does seem a bit small. The only time it bothers me is when I'm climbing steep hills but there are a _lot_ of hills around here. I've got the seat tube adjusted past the "no further than this" line which I think is right about where I need it but the handlebars seem a bit too close. I'm thinking a longer headset will help but will any headset fit? I'd hate to go into a shop and get fitted properly when I have no intention of buying a bike. Also, when stuff breaks can it be replaced with modern parts or will I have to go out of my way to find old stuff that may or may not work? Will I have to upgrade the entire drivetrain and wheelset if something needs replaced? 

It was free so obviously it's worth riding until it starts to fall apart as long as I can get it to fit right. From what I'm told these old bikes are bomb proof so I'm not too worried about things breaking but it is an old bike so who knows. Any advice is appreciated.


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## Jaded Grunt (Dec 18, 2009)

Almost forgot the pr0n


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Jaded Grunt said:


> I inherited an old Peugeot road bike from my father in law. I know nothing about road bikes. Here's what I know about this. It's a 12 speed. It's got a Carbolite 103 frame. If I measured right it's a 56 cm frame with a 56 cm toptube. The rear derailleur is a Sachs Huret Rival. The front is a Sachs Huret. The crank is a Nervar. The brakes are Weinmann. It was puchased in the early to mid 80s. Everything mechanical is in great shape. It was barely ridden. The cassette and chainrings look brand new with no wear. It shifts flawlessly (although having the shifters on the frame is kinda annoying). The brake pads have very little wear but they're old, noisy and don't stop me quickly at all. Can these be upgraded? Would new pads do the trick? The tires are original and definitely need to be replaced but they hold air and they're getting me around for now.
> 
> So as for my questions. *First of all, how do I figure out whether or not it fits me right?* I'm 5'11" with a 32" inseam. It doesn't fit me badly but it does seem a bit small. The only time it bothers me is when I'm climbing steep hills but there are a _lot_ of hills around here. * I've got the seat tube adjusted past the "no further than this" line which I think is right about where I need it but the handlebars seem a bit too close.* I'm thinking a longer headset will help but will any headset fit? I'd hate to go into a shop and get fitted properly when I have no intention of buying a bike. Also, when stuff breaks can it be replaced with modern parts or will I have to go out of my way to find old stuff that may or may not work? Will I have to upgrade the entire drivetrain and wheelset if something needs replaced?
> 
> It was free so obviously it's worth riding until it starts to fall apart as long as I can get it to fit right. From what I'm told these old bikes are bomb proof so I'm not too worried about things breaking but it is an old bike so who knows. Any advice is appreciated.


Nice bike, but it's too small for you. I've bolded the reasons in your post. 

Taking it to a LBS for fitting assistance won't help, because you can't be correctly fitted to the wrong size bike. Determining the correct size comes first. Can you ride it safely 'as is'? Tough call, but I wouldn't do it. Better to sell it and use the money towards one that fits correctly.

Or, because it has low use, strip it down to the frame and buy a new frameset, using those parts to build it up. Depending on the new frame's specs, you'd probably need a new headset, stem and bars - everything else should swap over, but there are always some issues along the way, like rear dropout spacing.

EDIT: In your pics, the seat post is pretty low. Was the pic taken _before_ you adjusted the seat to your requirements?


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

With a bike that old the standover test might still have some meaning. If you've got about 1-3 inches from your croch it MAY be a decent fit.

Based on measurments you've given of you and the bike it sounds about right. Regardless, it boils down to you are comfortable, or not comfortable.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Hank Stamper said:


> With a bike that old the standover test might still have some meaning. If you've got about 1-3 inches from your croch it MAY be a decent fit.
> 
> Based on measurments you've given of you and the bike it sounds about right. Regardless, it boils down to you are comfortable, or not comfortable.


If the seat post has to be adjusted above the minimum insertion line to obtain the correct saddle height, the bike is too small for the OP.


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

Not necessarily, he could have the seat way to far forward.


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## Jaded Grunt (Dec 18, 2009)

The topbar is right about an inch under my crotch when I stand over it. That's the main reason why I thought it should fit me about right. Maybe I'm just not used to the drop down bars since I've always ridden mountain bikes. When I put my hands on the top of the handlebars it feels about right besides being way too narrow. 

I raised the seat about 2-3 inches from what's in the picture. I'm not even sure if it was the minimum insertion line that I was looking at. It was just an obvious, dotted line on the seatpost. It was maybe a quarter of an inch under where the seatpost is at in the picture. There was still a good 5-6 inches more seatpost under it. As I've got it set up now there's maybe 3 inches of post in the frame with maybe 5 inches out of it. 

I doubt I could get more than $100 or so for the bike. Even if I got lucky and managed to get $200 it would still hardly be a down payment on a new bike. I've been doing a bit of research and it looks like the French used a lot of weird screws and connectors so nothing else fits them. If anyone knows anything about these bikes that can confirm or deny that I'd appreciate it. I also don't really want to buy used. Used road bikes in my area are really rare and they tend to go fast. I don't want to get stuck in the same situation where I'm at now until I really know what I'm looking at.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Hank Stamper said:


> Not necessarily, he could have the seat way to far forward.


Fore /aft position is irrelevant in this instance. IF the seat post minimum insertion mark is exposed to attain proper saddle height, a bike isn't sized correctly to the rider.

That still needs to be determined here, but it's a statement of fact.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Jaded Grunt said:


> The topbar is right about an inch under my crotch when I stand over it. That's the main reason why I thought it should fit me about right. Maybe I'm just not used to the drop down bars since I've always ridden mountain bikes. When I put my hands on the top of the handlebars it feels about right besides being way too narrow.
> 
> I raised the seat about 2-3 inches from what's in the picture. *I'm not even sure if it was the minimum insertion line that I was looking at. It was just an obvious, dotted line on the seatpost.* It was maybe a quarter of an inch under where the seatpost is at in the picture. There was still a good 5-6 inches more seatpost under it. As I've got it set up now there's maybe 3 inches of post in the frame with maybe 5 inches out of it.
> 
> I doubt I could get more than $100 or so for the bike. Even if I got lucky and managed to get $200 it would still hardly be a down payment on a new bike. I've been doing a bit of research and it looks like the French used a lot of weird screws and connectors so nothing else fits them. If anyone knows anything about these bikes that can confirm or deny that I'd appreciate it. I also don't really want to buy used. Used road bikes in my area are really rare and they tend to go fast. I don't want to get stuck in the same situation where I'm at now until I really know what I'm looking at.


I think before you can formulate any kind of plan, you should try to find out where that mark is in relation to the current position. The 1" standover clearance is ok and there's always a possibility that isn't the OEM post (dunno what type bike it would be from, though), but that would be my priority.

Once that's been resolved, if you think the bike fits ok you can readjust the stem up (to a point), but there's minimum insertion lines on those as well.

I'll leave it to a Peugeot aficionado to better critique your bike, but as I recall, there was nothing that unique about the builds. From your pics it looks to be a pretty standard build for that era and many components are similar to my '84 Bianchi Limited.


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## Nielly (Sep 21, 2009)

That was my first real bike, only mine was white. It has the helicomatic rear hub (an early version of a cassette hub). See if you can locate the tool that came with the bike. On the fit, since you are going to need new tires (they are the originals and from what I remember they flatted constantly even when new) take the bike down to the bike shop with the intention of havng them change the tires and give it a good once over. Mention the fit issue before you give them the bike. If they are any good they will be able to tell pretty quickly if the bike is sized properly and if there is money in it for them they probably won't mind advising you. Obviously you don't want to spend money on a bike that ultimately doesn't fit.

From the pictures it appears that the frame was too big for the previous owner. The seat is too low and too far forward and the handlebars are a litle high. You can extend the reach by moving the seat back on the rails, move the seat up and move the stem lower. It might feel strange at first but it might help with the climbing issue you experience.


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

PJ352 said:


> Fore /aft position is irrelevant in this instance. IF the seat post minimum insertion mark is exposed to attain proper saddle height, a bike isn't sized correctly to the rider.
> 
> That still needs to be determined here, but it's a statement of fact.


I don't believe you are correct. If the seat is way to far forward if shortens the reach causing the person to raise the seat tube, when potentially he/she just needed to move the seat back. Just like the seat way to far back causes the reach to lengthen. We do not know that he/she is positioned over the pedal correctly so it is not a simple statement of fact the tube being above the line means the bike is too small unless we know why it's that high.


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## Jaded Grunt (Dec 18, 2009)

My LBS is pretty good about answering questions and doing simple stuff without question. I give them enough business with my mountain bikes so they know me. I've had good luck with the tires so far but the dry rot still makes me nervous so they'll be getting switched out after christmas. 

What about the serial number? How do I use that to identify the year and model?


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## Nielly (Sep 21, 2009)

The model # is PH10LE if I remember correctly and it would date from the mid 80's. Search the retro-classic forum, a couple of weeks ago someone posted a Peugeot catalog with that bike in it.

Also based on the white tag that's still taped to the chainstay. This is just a wild guess but serial #'s typically include the date of manufacture which in this case would be '83, which seems to be about right (again, just a guess).


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

PJ352 said:


> Fore /aft position is irrelevant in this instance. IF the seat post minimum insertion mark is exposed to attain proper saddle height, a bike isn't sized correctly to the rider.
> 
> That still needs to be determined here, but it's a statement of fact.


Not a fact but a general principle. Minimum insertion marks change from seat post to seat post depending upon their overall length, tube thickness and material.

Looks like it should be okay size wise. If you need to get a longer seat post then so be it, remove this one completely so you know what you are looking at. You may need a longer stem (this type is called a quill stem), not headset, ask your LBS old guy or roadie to eyeball you on the frame and he should be able to get you set up pretty close to good. You'll be buying replacement parts from the shop so don't worry about not buying the frame from them.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Hank Stamper said:


> I don't believe you are correct. *If the seat is way to far forward if shortens the reach causing the person to raise the seat tube*, when potentially he/she just needed to move the seat back. Just like the seat way to far back causes the reach to lengthen. We do not know that he/she is positioned over the pedal correctly so it is not a simple statement of fact the tube being above the line means the bike is too small unless we know why it's that high.


Reread my last post. I said "IF the seat post minimum insertion mark is exposed *to attain proper saddle height*, a bike isn't sized correctly to the rider.

You're adding your own supposition, but as described, my statement _is_ fact.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

kiwisimon said:


> Not a fact but a general principle. *Minimum insertion marks change from seat post to seat post depending upon their overall length, tube thickness and material.*
> 
> Looks like it should be okay size wise. If you need to get a longer seat post then so be it, remove this one completely so you know what you are looking at. You may need a longer stem (this type is called a quill stem), not headset, ask your LBS old guy or roadie to eyeball you on the frame and he should be able to get you set up pretty close to good. You'll be buying replacement parts from the shop so don't worry about not buying the frame from them.


I agree (with the bolded statement), and covered that variable stating:
_The 1" standover clearance is ok and *there's always a possibility that isn't the OEM post*._


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## Nielly (Sep 21, 2009)

Well for what it's worth the seat post and indeed the whole bike is original right down to those awful tires, probably has the original tubes in it. It still has the serial and model # sticker on it! It looks like it was purchased from the store ridden once very briefly and stuck in the back of the garage or basement. Clean it up and it should ride pretty well, nothing extraordinary but I do remember riding mine on a few century rides and it was pretty comfortable.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Nielly said:


> Well for what it's worth the seat post and indeed the whole bike is original right down to those awful tires, probably has the original tubes in it. It still has the serial and model # sticker on it! It looks like it was purchased from the store ridden once very briefly and stuck in the back of the garage or basement. Clean it up and it should ride pretty well, nothing extraordinary but I do remember riding mine on a few century rides and it was pretty comfortable.


I don't doubt you. The 'conversations' related to the post/ saddle position are IMO not specific to this bike, rather, fundamentals of fit. But it's best that the OP work with his LBS on that.

The thing that surprises me is that this bike appears to be TIG welded (or maybe fillet brazed, hard to tell), but not lugged. From my recollection most of that era were lugged. At least my Bianchi was.


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## Nielly (Sep 21, 2009)

PJ352 said:


> I don't doubt you. The 'conversations' related to the post/ saddle position are IMO not specific to this bike, rather, fundamentals of fit. But it's best that the OP work with his LBS on that.
> 
> The thing that surprises me is that this bike appears to be TIG welded (or maybe fillet brazed, hard to tell), but not lugged. From my recollection most of that era were lugged. At least my Bianchi was.


I understand I was just adding a point of info for the OP. Yeah this bike was not lugged and was defintiely not a high-end type bike. I bought mine new when I was just starting and didn't want to sink a lot of money into a sport I might not like. It could be classified as an "entry-level" serious road bike. I think I paid $200-$300 at the time.


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

i have the peugoet ou8 (models before this one) i am converting to SS.. make great donors for this purpose...

firstly, seat posts are seat posts... get a longer one... rule of thumb... a fistful below the seat clamp is a good measure, should be about an inch below the seat tube and top tube junction.... dont forget - these are steel posts, very strong (check with a magnet)...

normally 5'11" and 32" inseam puts you on a 56cm.... my roadies are all 56 and i love it... around 33.5" inseam and 5'11.5" myself.... we are both on the cusp of 54 and 56 depending on frame geometry, so the 56 is definitely not too small.


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## Jaded Grunt (Dec 18, 2009)

That's what I figured. It'll do me for now. I was doing some research but can't find the website now. It had every Peugeot catalog on it. I think I had it narrowed down to a PH10L but I can't be sure. I guess it doesn't matter. It's a hell of a lot lighter than my mountain bike. I just need to adjust everything right. It seems to be in the right range so I can't see how it won't fit right once I figure out how to dial it in.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Jaded Grunt said:


> That's what I figured. It'll do me for now. I was doing some research but can't find the website now. It had every Peugeot catalog on it. I think I had it narrowed down to a PH10L but I can't be sure. I guess it doesn't matter. It's a hell of a lot lighter than my mountain bike. I just need to adjust everything right. It seems to be in the right range so I can't see how it won't fit right once I figure out how to dial it in.


If it is in fact in the right range, then you _can_ adjust for fit, but IMO it would be best left to an LBS to determine that because this is all new to you. Once done, they can assist in the fitting process. 

If you plan on putting any appreciable miles on, getting the right fit will save you some potential pain/ discomfort - and you'll be more likely to keep riding it.

BTW, 'a fistful of seat post' is far from a recommended method of sizing.


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

PJ352 said:


> BTW, 'a fistful of seat post' is far from a recommended method of sizing.


are you for real? read it again, that's for minimum insertion line, as the OP seemed unsure of where his mark was.

sizing is a different matter, for a decent guide to start from i highly recommend wrench science dot com... very good guide to go with for starters... plug in your details and it will suggest a good range for everything including seat height...

I just baulked at the idea that since the seat may have been at the minimum insertion the whole bike became too small... there are such things as longer seat posts.. Another trick is to flip the saddle clamp assembly if you're game... it will add an inch or two to the seat height... cheap and effective anyway...


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

Jaded Grunt said:


> That's what I figured. It'll do me for now. I was doing some research but can't find the website now. It had every Peugeot catalog on it.


http://cyclespeugeot.com/Catalogs.html
http://retropeugeot.com/

HTH

sizing: http://www.wrenchscience.com/ gotta sign in and register but they don't mail bomb you and its totally worth it..


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## Jaded Grunt (Dec 18, 2009)

So I guess it's an 85 PH10LE. It's got the HLE frame and a Carbolite 103 fork. I took it to the LBS last night and got it all pretty well figured out. I think it'll work for now. Thanks for all the help guys.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

wankski said:


> are you for real? read it again, that's for minimum insertion line, as the OP seemed unsure of where his mark was.
> 
> sizing is a different matter, for a decent guide to start from i highly recommend wrench science dot com... very good guide to go with for starters... plug in your details and it will suggest a good range for everything including seat height...
> 
> I just baulked at the idea that since the seat may have been at the minimum insertion the whole bike became too small... there are such things as longer seat posts.. Another trick is to flip the saddle clamp assembly if you're game... it will add an inch or two to the seat height... cheap and effective anyway...


I'm very real, I assure you, but you were less than clear in your explanation of how to ballpart the insertion line. Now that you've clarified, it makes some sense.

I don't share your confidence in the online fit calculators, but YMMV. All things considered, I think the OP would be best served visiting his LBS. Even a cursory fit would be better than our sight unseen web analysis.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Jaded Grunt said:


> So I guess it's an 85 PH10LE. It's got the HLE frame and a Carbolite 103 fork. I took it to the LBS last night and got it all pretty well figured out. I think it'll work for now. Thanks for all the help guys.


All's well that ends well. Cool bike, ride safe!! :thumbsup:


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## RHankey (Sep 7, 2007)

At 5'9" and a 32" inseam and what appears to be around a 22-23" (seat tube) frame, I'm guessing this frame is roughly the right size for you. A 1" standover would also suggest the frame is around the right size, or even a touch large.

The big problem is the current seat post and seat. Seat posts from that era were much shorter than modern posts, which after subtracting 2.5" for minimum insertion, did not leave much room for adjustment. The other thing I notice from the photo is that the post appears to offer little or no effective setback, so the seat is sitting pretty far forward.

I would absolutely suggest getting a proper fitting done for that bike as it can likely be made to fit you well. Be prepared to shell out for a new seat post and seat. You will most likely need a moderate setback post. You may have to replace the stem to adjust reach to complete the fitting, but it appears to be in the right ballpark.


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## Jaded Grunt (Dec 18, 2009)

So yeah. I love the bike but I went for a pretty long ride today and noticed that the seatpost was slipping into the frame up to about the point in the picture. I adjusted it halfway through the ride and it was back in the same spot by the time I got home. I don't want to strip the bolt or collapse the seat post from overtightening. What do I do?


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## Nielly (Sep 21, 2009)

LOL, now that you mention it, I vaguely recall having the slipping seatpost issue on mine as well. I don't remember exactly what I did but something you might try is to rough up the seatpost and inside the seattube with some sandpaper and cleaning it real well with some solvent. You just have to remember to remove it and clean it on occasion so it doesn't sieze on you.


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