# Rol, Williams or Mavic Carbon Wheelset



## tk1995 (Nov 2, 2008)

I am considering a new set of carbon clinchers and have narrowed my choices down to Rol C45, Williams System 58 or Mavic Cosmic Cabone SLS. Anyone have any thoughts on or experience with these? Thanks,

Bob


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## Gaspasser1 (Jan 28, 2012)

*Carbon clinchers*

I have also been looking for new carbon clinchers. All three of the wheels you mentioned seem to be good choices. Heard good and bad about Mavic hubs.
I also looked into all three of those wheels you are looking at. I have no experience with them but thought I'd mention a couple other options that are in the same weight and price range. 
HED Jet 5 wheels are 1681 GM's and are $1189 at Arts Cyclery using their 15% off code.

Mercury M5 are on sale at Competitive Cyclist for $999 and are 1660 GM's.

Reynolds RFour are 1570 GM's and are on sale for $879 at Performance Bike.
For the price and quality I am going to give the Reynolds a shot. PB seems to have a great lifetime Guarantee if I don't like them, so I have little to lose. 

Anyway, good luck with your choice. It's a tough one. Lots of good wheels to choose from.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

The Mavic Cosmic Carbone SLS is NOT a carbon clincher. The rim is aluminum. You can search for my previous posts about Mavic wheels if you'd like to know what I think of them. The works 'overpriced, under engineered, and proprietary nonsense' will be seen many times.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

cxwrench said:


> The Mavic Cosmic Carbone SLS is NOT a carbon clincher. The rim is aluminum. You can search for my previous posts about Mavic wheels if you'd like to know what I think of them. The works 'overpriced, under engineered, and proprietary nonsense' will be seen many times.


^^^ This ^^^


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Did you consider November Rail 52 wheels? They whup the Mavics in many ways -

November Bicycles: Race smart. - Rail 52

Check the specs side by side. Check spoke availability and price for both wheelsets. If that doesn't cure you, nothing will.

Oh yeah - contact both companies and ask them what kind of after-purchase support you can expect. (If that doesn't cure you, nothing will.)


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## tk1995 (Nov 2, 2008)

Thanks for the feedback. I did see the Performance sale on the Reynolds wheels and did a little digging. What I found is that at least the rims are from 2013, which is probably why the low price. That doesn't bother me too much except if I'm going to spend them money I'd rather get the wider rims, which the 2013 ones are not. 

I guess Mavic is out. I've never heard of the November wheels but it looks like they are worth investigating. 

Bob


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

tk1995 said:


> I've never heard of the November wheels but it looks like they are worth investigating.


November Dave hangs around on this forum and answers questions.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

I've had Rail 52s for nearly two years now, and they have been outstanding wheels. For the money you'd be hard pressed to find a better carbon clincher.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

SauronHimself said:


> I've had Rail 52s for nearly two years now, and they have been outstanding wheels. For the money you'd be hard pressed to find a better carbon clincher.


With that rim, the Ti Nimbus hubs and CX-ray spokes it's a great wheel for a good price. I don't know for sure but my bet would be that the rim is made by Gigantex. The ad says "built exclusively for us by one of Taiwan's top rim makers" and AFAIK they're the best.


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## Gaspasser1 (Jan 28, 2012)

Yes, the Reynolds are only 21mm wide. Still wider than what I'm currently on though. November wheels look nice as well.


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## veloci1 (Nov 29, 2005)

Check out Boydcycling. Their wheels are customer service are top notch.


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## Gaspasser1 (Jan 28, 2012)

veloci1 said:


> Check out Boydcycling. Their wheels are customer service are top notch.


Seem very nice as well. I like the idea of the BOYD 44 but it's out of stock right now. Must be pretty popular.


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## tk1995 (Nov 2, 2008)

The Boyd and November wheels look great but for the money the Mercury wheels seem like a solid buy. Anyone have any experience on them?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

tk1995 said:


> The Boyd and November wheels look great but for the money the Mercury wheels seem like a solid buy. Anyone have any experience on them?


List us all the specs and parts sources of the wheelsets you're considering (so we don't have to do all the work) and we'll give you an opinion on what is the best buy.


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## tk1995 (Nov 2, 2008)

I'm seriously leaning toward the Mercury at this point. 

Rear Spoke Count:	24
Rear Hub:	Mercury
Brake Compatibility:	rim
Material:	carbon fiber
Rim Depth:	55 mm
Front Hub:	Mercury
Front Spoke Count:	20
Rear Weight:	876 g
Skewers:	quick-release
Complete Set Weight:	1,580 g
Front Weight:	704 g
Wheelbag:	no
Axle Type:	15 mm
Recommended Use:	cycling
Manufacturer Warranty:	2 years
Rim Width:	23.5 mm
Spokes:	Sapim CX-Ray
Actual Weight:	One Color, One Size: 1,660g

The Rail 52's are a close second:

Specs:
Rim Weight: 520g
Wheelset Weight: 1565g 
Rim brake hubs: November Nimbus Ti
Disc brake hubs: November Nimbus Ti CLD
Rim: 52mm deep, 25mm wide at brake track, 18mm inside width, UD carbon finish.
Spokes: Sapim CX-Ray, black.
Decals: November transfer decals applied on top of clear coat, bleached black.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Which model of Mercury is that? What is their hub make/source? What is their rim make/source?


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## Gaspasser1 (Jan 28, 2012)

Those are the Mercury M5. Just to clarify the weight is 1660, not 1580. I called and asked why the two different weights and the 1580 is an older model, these are 1660. Hope that helps. Good looking wheels though.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Correct me if I'm wrong here *tk* but you're comparing $2399 Mercury M5 wheels with what looks like Asian sourced hubs to November Rail 52 at $1338 with hubs made by White Industries? 

If those are Asian sourced re-labeled hubs, they usually retail for around $135 a set. The true White hubs retail for around $450. Yes I know the November Nimbus Ti hubs are cosmetically simplified White hubs and Asian sourced hubs are great for the money but here's what I don't understand, the Mercury wheels are $1000 more than the November and they have a hubset that retails for about $300 less?  What *am* I missing here?


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Mike T. said:


> What *am* I missing here?


The Mecury M5 are on sale for $1000.
Mercury Wheels M5 Clincher Wheelset | Competitive Cyclist

Personally, I'd still buy the November wheels for $338 more...because of the White Industries hubs, lighter weight, and hand build in the USA.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Ahhh, ok, I didn't see the sale price. Yep I'd go for the wheels with the best hubs too. The titanium cassette carrier is a big plus even though the Mercury hub seems to have bite-guard.


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## tk1995 (Nov 2, 2008)

That's great information and I really appreciate the input. I'm definitely more interested in the November wheels, it's pushing my budget a little more but seems like they'd be worth it. Anyone else have any experience with the wheels and/or company?


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

You should call Shaun at The Cycling House and see what the best price he can do on the HED Jet 5's without tires and tubes. I think they normally knock 15% off. That would put them at less than $1,200 shipped.


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## NolesOrNothing (Aug 19, 2011)

*November Rail 52's*



tk1995 said:


> That's great information and I really appreciate the input. I'm definitely more interested in the November wheels, it's pushing my budget a little more but seems like they'd be worth it. Anyone else have any experience with the wheels and/or company?



Purchased a set of November Rail 52's with red WI T11's and have put almost 2,500 miles on them. Took some getting used to in the wind as my prior wheels where custom built Velocity A23's. Currently ride them with Schwalbe One 23's at 95 to 100 PSI. Have a set of 25's to try when the 23's wear out. They cruise right along efficiently at speeds 23 mph plus and would probably be way more beneficial with a stronger rider aboard them. November Dave was very responsive via email prior to purchase as well as post purchase. They definitely garner looks and inspire conversation as they are rare in a plethora of Zipps in my group. And most of those Zipps have had to rebuilt due to failed hubs and spokes.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

NolesOrNothing said:


> And most of those Zipps have had to rebuilt due to failed hubs and spokes.


Most? 

Strikes me as hyperbole.

No one I know has _had_ to have Zipp wheels rebuilt due to failure of hubs or spokes. I rebuilt mine out of choice for different hubs...but the Zipp hubs didn't fail.


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## NolesOrNothing (Aug 19, 2011)

tvad said:


> Most?
> 
> Strikes me as hyperbole.
> 
> No one I know has _had_ to have Zipp wheels rebuilt due to failure of hubs or spokes. I rebuilt mine out of choice for different hubs...but the Zipp hubs didn't fail.


No BS and consider yourself and group lucky. 5 of my riding group have sent their Zipps back due to some level of failure. 3 due to cracked hub flanges and 2 due to multiple broken spokes, and both of those have been shipped back twice.


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## tk1995 (Nov 2, 2008)

I'm now down to Mercury M5s from Competitive Cyclist ($999 sale) or Rail 52s ($1385). 

The November hubs definitely seem much better but the info that I got from Mercury's customer service is reassuring too: "We design them in-house to our specifications and then have them manufactured over-seas.The hubs have 4 sealed cartridge bearings in the rear and 2 in the front. They are plenty light and durable. We used these hubs last year without any issues, even a few professional 'cross racers. The alloy cassette body has a steel "anti-bite guard" over one of the spines, so your cassette won't dig into the cassette body."

I'm planning to do something this weekend so any last minute thoughts would be great. Thank you everyone.

Bob


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

tk1995 said:


> I'm now down to Mercury M5s from Competitive Cyclist ($999 sale) or Rail 52s ($1385).
> 
> The November hubs definitely seem much better but the info that I got from Mercury's customer service is reassuring too: "We design them in-house to our specifications and then have them manufactured over-seas.The hubs have 4 sealed cartridge bearings in the rear and 2 in the front. They are plenty light and durable. We used these hubs last year without any issues, even a few professional 'cross racers. The alloy cassette body has a steel "anti-bite guard" over one of the spines, so your cassette won't dig into the cassette body."
> 
> ...


While Asian hubs are fine for the money, they can't be considered to be in the same class as the White Industry hubs of November. The cassette will not dig into the carrier of the November's as it's made from titanium.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Consider that over the next year, the November wheels, hand built in the USA using superior quality hubs, will cost you only $1.05/day more than the Mercury wheels.


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## tk1995 (Nov 2, 2008)

Well, Competitive Cyclist took another $100 off the Mercury wheels over the weekend so the decision got even harder but it came down to the hub being the core of the wheelset and after some email chatting with November Dave I decided to go with the November Rail 52s so I'll be trying them out this week and plan to share my experience. Thanks again to everyone who commented on this thread.

Bob


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## skinewmexico (Apr 19, 2010)

tk1995 said:


> Well, Competitive Cyclist took another $100 off the Mercury wheels over the weekend so the decision got even harder but it came down to the hub being the core of the wheelset and after some email chatting with November Dave I decided to go with the November Rail 52s so I'll be trying them out this week and plan to share my experience. Thanks again to everyone who commented on this thread.
> 
> Bob


I've had really good experiences with November. Did a pre-buy on their Dojo frame, and when the builder started changing specs, they cancelled and returned money promptly. Good guys there.


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