# Large 2014 S-Works Tarmac or 2015 Expert



## NickD (May 11, 2015)

Seeking advice for another first world problem purchasing choice. This inquiry is primarily aimed at taller folks who would ride (or have tested) either a 58 or 61 Tarmac. I am looking at either a new 58 cm Expert (fact 10 carbon), with the improved big frame handling, or buying a lightly used 58 2014 SL4 S-Works (fact 11) from the Bay with better parts. If this was the common 54 or 56 cm sizes, the S-Works would be the clearer choice but most reviewers feel the new Tarmacs are certainly improved in the larger sizes, mainly for descending. This is not an exact apples to apples as we looking at the improved rider engineering of the 2015 models versus the slightly better/lighter/stiffer fact 11 carbon of the 2014 S-Works.

Here are some pros and cons as I see it:
2015 Expert
Pros: Full frame and parts warranty, one shop willing to do free required (for me) longer stem swap (two surprisingly declined this request when paying list price!), more robust/heavy but less troublesome Fulcrum 4 wheels; recent introduction of nice gloss red color with stealth graphics (no matte black for this traditionalist). Shop support and ready to ride.
Cons: Lesser components especially FSA crank, bit heavier and likely a bit less shock absorbent. Finicky new seatpost height adjustment clamp. Ultegra components good but not Dura Ace. Almost 10% WA sales tax with no discounts found.

2014 SL4 S-Works
Pros: Best fact 11 tubing, full 9000 mechanical Dura Ace components including crank (and some type bb adaptor), very light aluminum wheels, nice white-based limited edition color scheme (although almost too bling). Possibly more compliant and shock absorbent front end. Standard seatpost adjustment bolt/clamp. No tax. Depending on price negotiations, almost same as Expert $4K+tax.
Cons: No warranties. Likely a bit less crisp descending. Some unknown chainring sizing, thus probable new rings purchase (seller not answer/understand my clear questions about chainrings and bb adaptor specifics). Seller has limited history. Will need to buy new longer stem, possibly handlebars (like 'em wide) and chainrings. Longer stem might require some recabling. Almost too light (for my size) Fulcrum 1 wheels so limited use. Not much sales protection/sight unseen although some paypal protection.

Note that I am 190 cm, 182 lbs., coming from slightly too large 61 x 61 (c to c) traditional 853 steel bike with long Boonen-like reach. I have modified my seat height lower over the years of this ownership and likely shrunk a bit although I am still fairly flexible and favor an aggressive fairly stretched out position. The 61 Tarmac is just too big and I was able to finally test a 58 Tarmac Sport (fact 8 with cheap heavy parts) where the shop mounted a 13 stem. I might need a 14. Even though more seat to bar drop it felt pretty good and just need to get used to different feel. This was purely a sizing test ride as the machine way below what I will be buying. Two quick and dirty fit sessions suggested reducing reach now that I no longer race, although still some amount of chain gang riding. So at the upper ending of fitting a 58. 40+ years of riding and occasional position tweaks. The 61 only has 0.7 cm more reach and lower trail just to give more stack/seat height. I live in a PNW hilly area.

I am still expanding my search for a shop with an Expert or Pro available in 58 cm to test. And hoping I get lucky seeing an older S-Works to try but unlikely. I am also waiting for a shop to build up a 60 cm BMC SLR02 to try. Or maybe just wait until summer to see what the 2016 Cannondale SuperSix Evo will be like. The current one does not do much for me. I am looking for a Porsche 911 at Subaru prices thus no 2015 S-Works.

Has anyone been on one of the bigger SL4 S-Works and a 2015 Pro/Expert to report their comparative experiences? Other related purchasing thoughts are welcome.

Grazie (for the next 3 weeks we are all Italian).


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## vertr (Aug 22, 2006)

If you aren't racing I wouldn't worry about the '14 S-works for descending. I doubt you would notice much of a difference. That said, I looked at the ebay listing and it seems a little sketchy. I'd be wary of buying a frame from someone with only 2 feedback ratings. 

If it were me, I'd buy the '15 because it's the new hotness, pull the crank immediately, sell it on ebay and put an Ultegra on there. Then you've got a full group and a great looking bike. The Rocket Red Expert is way hotter than the Contador frame IMO.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Stay away from the 2014 Tarmac. The company admits it's under-engineered and can be classified as a noodle. It was only designed for a 54 or 56 and the rest of the sizes suffer.


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## vertr (Aug 22, 2006)

MMsRepBike said:


> Stay away from the 2014 Tarmac. The company admits it's under-engineered and can be classified as a noodle. It was only designed for a 54 or 56 and the rest of the sizes suffer.


The SL4 is a fine bike and Specialized has admitted nothing of the sort.


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

MMsRepBike said:


> Stay away from the 2014 Tarmac. The company admits it's under-engineered and can be classified as a noodle. It was only designed for a 54 or 56 and the rest of the sizes suffer.


You've forgot to add smileys because this is obviously a very funny statement.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Sure, they use their politically correct language but say the same thing.

"...you know, could be more responsive."

"...hey, you know, the guys riding the bigger bikes, they really need a stiffer platform... they need more responsiveness."

I have an SL4 but I ride a size 54. I wouldn't buy anything but a 54 or 56 now that the 2015 model is out that's been made properly for those other sizes. You know, like other companies have been doing for a long time.


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## 1Butcher (Mar 15, 2011)

Every older model is under engineered. That is how they get you to want the newest model.

This 'Rider Engineered' marketing scheme is just another one of those gimmicks.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

It's far from a gimmick.

How is different sized steerer tubes, different sized headset bearings, different layups, etc. a gimmick? The 2015 bikes, the smaller and larger sizes, are much different than the previous version. The 54 and 56 didn't change much at all, upgrading in those sizes might be considered a gimmick. For them just the refresh and seatpost collar changed.


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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

The real question is whether in a blind test you can tell the difference. There are studies that say you can't. That tire pressure accounts for the majority of perceived difference. So, I'm with butcher on this one. More marketing than reality.


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## vertr (Aug 22, 2006)

MMsRepBike said:


> It's far from a gimmick.
> 
> How is different sized steerer tubes, different sized headset bearings, different layups, etc. a gimmick? The 2015 bikes, the smaller and larger sizes, are much different than the previous version. The 54 and 56 didn't change much at all, upgrading in those sizes might be considered a gimmick. For them just the refresh and seatpost collar changed.


You are taking a marketing campaign too seriously. Probably stop giving people advice.


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## 1Butcher (Mar 15, 2011)

Everyone has a different opinion on how a bike feels. I would love to hear about one bike rider indicating the smaller frame rides like this and the larger frame rides like that.

Too bad a 6ft rider could not ride a 50cm frame just like a 5ft rider would have a real issue riding a 58cm frame. I would then maybe agree one person could tell the differences if that one person could ride both, but that ain't happening.

It's really a gimmick that no one can prove one way or other.


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

MMsRepBike said:


> It's far from a gimmick.



This is the kind of stuff that gives King Sinyard a boner...


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

This is not a Specialized thing. They're very late to this game. Orbea has been doing it for almost a decade. Cervelo does it and I'm sure lots of other companies do it. Engineering a large frame for a large rider is not something new and it's not a gimmick. Engineering a mid sized frame and just scaling up or down is lazy and pathetic, which is what they've always been. They're just now coming up to par. Same story as usual.


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## 1Butcher (Mar 15, 2011)

Which is why I think it is a gimmick. 

They probably already did it to a certain extent, but they ran out of excuses to buy a new bike, so now they bring up this 'rider engineered' idea. 

Now I'm not saying that the new frame is bad or that to focus more effort on that way of thinking is fautly. I just think it more marketing hype than anything else.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Okay, that's entirely possible. I wouldn't put that past them.


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