# Cracked Infinito frame



## adjtogo

I was out riding my 2011 Bianchi Infinito today and I heard a cracking sound from the back of the bike. I was just riding on a smooth paved road going 20 mph about 10 miles into the ride. I wasn't quite sure what happened or where the noise came from, so I kept on riding. A short time later, I noticed my gears were changing by themselves without me hitting the shifting lever. I knew the gears were working well as I just had a new chain and cables put on last week, and just had the bike in the LBS yesterday to tweak the gears as the cables loosened up. So, at first, I was thinking the rear derailer had a problem and tried to shift into different gears to see if that made a difference in the slippage. Nope. Kept doing it no matter what cog it was on. I finally decided to just pedal easy the rest of the way home, all along hearing a creaking or cracking type of sound. After I got home, I cleaned the sweat off my bike and got to the right rear seatstay and noticed, at first, what I thought was a chip in the paint. Upon further inspection, I could feel there was a definite separation. I immediately took it to the LBS where I bought the bike from just over a year ago and the mechanic inspected the bike along with another fellow rider in the shop. Both confirmed it was a definite crack and that the seatstay was flexible, which was causing the gears to change on their own as it flexed when I was riding. The mechanic immediately called the owner at the other shop. He was going to inspect the bike and let me know what the status is. Fortunately, I was told Bianchi's customer service will go out of their way to help out if the frame is cracked and will replace it without a problem. I didn't hit any bumps nor hit any potholes. I was just riding my normal route with freshly paved roads. Hope to hear something Saturday or Monday about whether they'll replace the frame. 

Anyone else ever experience a cracked frame while riding a carbon fiber bike?


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## bottecchia_eja

adjtogo said:


> I was out riding my 2011 Bianchi Infinito today and I heard a cracking sound from the back of the bike. I was just riding on a smooth paved road going 20 mph about 10 miles into the ride. I wasn't quite sure what happened or where the noise came from, so I kept on riding. A short time later, I noticed my gears were changing by themselves without me hitting the shifting lever. I knew the gears were working well as I just had a new chain and cables put on last week, and just had the bike in the LBS yesterday to tweak the gears as the cables loosened up. So, at first, I was thinking the rear derailer had a problem and tried to shift into different gears to see if that made a difference in the slippage. Nope. Kept doing it no matter what cog it was on. I finally decided to just pedal easy the rest of the way home, all along hearing a creaking or cracking type of sound. After I got home, I cleaned the sweat off my bike and got to the right rear seatstay and noticed, at first, what I thought was a chip in the paint. Upon further inspection, I could feel there was a definite separation. I immediately took it to the LBS where I bought the bike from just over a year ago and the mechanic inspected the bike along with another fellow rider in the shop. Both confirmed it was a definite crack and that the seatstay was flexible, which was causing the gears to change on their own as it flexed when I was riding. The mechanic immediately called the owner at the other shop. He was going to inspect the bike and let me know what the status is. Fortunately, I was told Bianchi's customer service will go out of their way to help out if the frame is cracked and will replace it without a problem. I didn't hit any bumps nor hit any potholes. I was just riding my normal route with freshly paved roads. Hope to hear something Saturday or Monday about whether they'll replace the frame.
> 
> Anyone else ever experience a cracked frame while riding a carbon fiber bike?


Oh man, I feel your pain. 

The good news is that your bike is under warranty and that Bianchi is pretty good about honoring its warranty.

If for some reason you have problems with Bianchi, the good news remains that most carbon frames can be repaired.

Check this out:

Carbon Repair Service | Calfee Design

Good luck and please keep us posted.


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## adjtogo

Yeah, when I heard a cracking sound and vibration later on, I dedided to check out all the bolts on the seatpost, handlebars, and stm. They were all tight. It wasn't until I cleaned the bike that I found the crack. That was the furthest thing from my mind. I'm waiting to hear from the LBS owner today. I might see if I can trade up to the Oltre frame and pay the difference.


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## Kodi Crescent

I feel for you too. I have a 2012 Infinito that's only been on its maiden voyage. This is my worst fear, as my closest Bianchi dealer is over 2 hours away. I wish you the best of luck in getting it dealt with.


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## adjtogo

Kodi Crescent said:


> I feel for you too. I have a 2012 Infinito that's only been on its maiden voyage. This is my worst fear, as my closest Bianchi dealer is over 2 hours away. I wish you the best of luck in getting it dealt with.


Just got word from the LBS owner. Frame is deefinitely cracked. They have to take pictures and send them to Bianchi USA on Monday. They will more than likely replace it with the same frameset. If they ar out of th celeste/white color for the 2011 Ultegra, then Black/white is the color for 2012 Ultegra. That's good for me.


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## Kodi Crescent

I got a 2012 celeste/white in Ultegra. _eja got one, too. Insist on that for the time and trouble.

The 2012 celeste is a pearl celeste, and is quite beautiful. Insist on it!


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## bottecchia_eja

Kodi Crescent said:


> I got a 2012 celeste/white in Ultegra. _eja got one, too. Insist on that for the time and trouble.
> 
> The 2012 celeste is a pearl celeste, and is quite beautiful. Insist on it!


I second that. The 2012 Infinito has more Celeste than the 20111 did. It looks very nice (if I may say so myself).

Insist on it. :thumbsup:


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## jeffbook

Good to hear that your likely to get a new frame. Exactly where along the seatstay did the crack occur, near the brake at the junction of the monotube or down close to the dropout?


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## adjtogo

The crack occurred on the monotube down closer to the rear cassette, approximately 5" above that. Wierd. I'm very lucky that the whole thing didn't disintegrate when it happened and very lucky I didn't fall off the bike when it happened. Now, I can tell you guys this, if you ever experience a crack in the carbon while riding, and you don't know it's cracked like in my case, your whole bike is subject to making all kinds of noises in different places, from the stem, handlebars, seatpost, and front fork. I just thought something was loose and needed to be tightened. Had I known I had the break when it happened, I would have abandoned the ride and called my wife to pick me up. But, because I didn't know, I kept on going, all along thinking it was the gears. And lastly, I also noticed that when I was pedaling, that the chain would rub on the front derailer when I had the right pedal in the top position and pushing downward on it. The crack and felxibility in the seatstay explains why the chain was rubbing on the derailer and why the gears would suddenly change by themselves. 

I have not had a good past couple of months since May 25th. First, I had a stent put in the LAD artery, AKA the widowmaker. Took a few weeks to recover from that. Then, on my Sempre, the front derailer froze up and wouldn't shift. I had that replaced not once, but twice under warranty. The second time, I paid the $20 difference to have it upgraded to an Ultegra derailer.

Then in the summer, I noticed the heat was affecting me when I was riding. With some extensive sweating, I had some very bad skin irritation in the netherlands, even though I was using Bag Balm. A few spots were so severe, that it caused skin sores. After visiting my doctor, I was told it was a side effect from the Lisinopril, Metrolol, and Plavix I'm on. I also developed ED too with the meds, but he wasn't exactly sure if that's what casued it. He was more convinced it was from riding. My blood and skin thinned out and was more prone to brusiing and rashes as well as having the heat affect me. So, my doctor told me to stop riding for over a month, which I did.

When I finally got back to riding, I bought a new Selle Italia Gel seat with the cutout to alleviate pressure down below. 

And now the break in the frame. 

What's next?


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## Kodi Crescent

I'm sorry to hear of your troubles. I hope things get better for you.


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## spade2you

How did it crack? My '07 C2C has been through a lot, including a race crash and the frame is still in great shape.


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## qatarbhoy

Hey ADJ, sorry to hear of your various woes. I hope the health issues/front der/cracked frame completes the trio and it's trouble-free living and riding from now on! :thumbsup:


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## adjtogo

spade2you said:


> How did it crack? My '07 C2C has been through a lot, including a race crash and the frame is still in great shape.


I was just pedaling normally and went to shift to a lower gear when I sped up and I heard a cracking or thumping type of sound, like something came loose or broke. It jarred the whole bike. There wasn't any road debris so I know I didn't hit anything. The roads were freshly paved, so I know I didn't hit a "road snake" or pothole. It was after that noise is when I noticed the gears shifting by itself and the front chain hitting the derailer when I had the right pedal going from top to bottom. 

I know the Infinito hasn't been out that long, maybe a few years at the most. I bought mine in September, 2011. I don't know if it's from faulty design of the rear seat stays or not. That seat stay has a funny shape to it. As someone said earlier, it could be a manufacturing defect in the carbon. I don't know. I just know it's cracked, which has been verified by the LBS owner. 

I could have never imagined this could happen so soon. It's my worst nightmare. 

I'll see what my options are hopefully later today when the LBS sends pics to Bianchi USA.


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## bottecchia_eja

adjtogo said:


> I was just pedaling normally and went to shift to a lower gear when I sped up and I heard a cracking or thumping type of sound, like something came loose or broke. It jarred the whole bike. There wasn't any road debris so I know I didn't hit anything. The roads were freshly paved, so I know I didn't hit a "road snake" or pothole. It was after that noise is when I noticed the gears shifting by itself and the front chain hitting the derailer when I had the right pedal going from top to bottom.
> 
> I know the Infinito hasn't been out that long, maybe a few years at the most. I bought mine in September, 2011. I don't know if it's from faulty design of the rear seat stays or not. That seat stay has a funny shape to it. As someone said earlier, it could be a manufacturing defect in the carbon. I don't know. I just know it's cracked, which has been verified by the LBS owner.
> 
> I could have never imagined this could happen so soon. It's my worst nightmare.
> 
> I'll see what my options are hopefully later today when the LBS sends pics to Bianchi USA.


First, sorry to hear about your health issues. I've been there myself and I can say that riding my bike has been a lifesaver. In fact I bought the Infinito (and the goodies I have been getting for her - wait till you guys see the Campy gruppo - to reward myself for a full year of good health).

So keep on riding you won't regret it. :thumbsup:

Carbon frames, like any other manufactured product, is subject to occassional failures. The Infinito frame has been proven in races in Europe, so the design is probably not an issue.

You probably just got the one that had a manufacturing defect. Now go and buy a lottery ticket, you are long overdue. 

Speaking of things breaking yesterday during my 60 mile ride my eyeglasses broke. The left side of the frame broke off and the left lens popped off. I am as blind as the proverbial bat, so I need glaases to see in the worst possible way.

There was no one home I could call for a "rescue" so I had to soldier on.

I had to do the rest of the ride - about 25 miles - with only my right lens. Everything looked as if I was looking at the world through the bottom of a broken bottle. Let me tell you, going fast downhill without any depth perception is an oddly eery feeling.

Now I have one more thing to add to my saddle bag - pair of spare eyeglasses. :idea:

Let us know how Bianchi treats you, all of us Bianchi owners want to know.


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## qatarbhoy

Someone posted a similar story of a chainstay simply cracking/snapping earlier in the year - also on a practically new bicycle. IIRC Bianchi replaced it without any hassles.


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## kbwh

Sorry to learn about your mishaps, adjtogo.


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## adjtogo

Still no news yet. Talked to the LBS yesterday, and they took pictures and sent them in to Bianchi, but I haven't heard anything back yet. Hopefully today.

With the cracked frame, I know they're going to have to strip everything off of it. My wheels have been turning the past few days and I'm trying to decide what to do.

Options:

1. Put the same Ultegra 6700 components on the new frame. That would save money, but is it what I really want to do? Don't know.

2. Put the Ultegra components on my 105 equipped 2011 Bianchi Sempre and sell the 105 set on ebay. My intention all along when I bought the Sempre was to change out the group set within a year to Ultegra. I bought the 105 equipped bike because I liked the color better than the Blue Bianchi Sempre equipped with Ultegra.

3. Bite the bullet and go Campy on the Infinito. PBK had some good deals on full Campy group sets. I know I'd have to change hubs, but maybe I'll change wheels too. This is the most expensive option, but am considering it, if it makes a difference.


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## kbwh

if you go for Campagnolo, go no lower than Chorus, at least for the shifters: You want the Ultrashift 3 down 5 up ergonomics. Ultrashift is what really makes Campagnolo ergonomics superior to SRAM and Shimano. 
For the rest of the group Athena will do, but if you want to improve one more get the Chorus Ultratorque crank for serviceability. 
Lots of good deals on Campagnolo wheels now. The Zonda is a particularly good buy.


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## adjtogo

PBK has the Super Record as a complete group for like $1500 after discounts are applied. I was really thinking to go this route. Then I looked at the Campy Shamal wheels. Might do that too. Might just sell the Sempre to pay for the upgraded group set and wheels for the Infinito too. Haven't really made up my mind yet.


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## jeffbook

Ok, I 'll play dumb. Who is PBK? I am alsways looking for new sources for parts and stuff.


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## adjtogo

Cycling Clothing Gear Accessories, Cycling Team Kits, Pro Bike Kit


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## adhumston

www probikekit.com/us/ Sorry, can't post links yet. 

OP, good luck on getting your frame issue resolved... I'm following along to see what happens as I've been considering a Bianchi myself.


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## Kodi Crescent

I follow that link, and what's on the first page? A red and black Garmin Edge 500. Bottechia, I've found your next accessory!


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## dharrison

A Bianchi deserves Campy.


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## bottecchia_eja

Kodi Crescent said:


> I follow that link, and what's on the first page? A red and black Garmin Edge 500. Bottechia, I've found your next accessory!


You are a very evil man.   

As soon as they get a Celeste Garmin500, I am dumping my old one...:thumbsup:


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## nobars

Wow, bad luck.


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## adjtogo

Bad luck and still more bad luck. Today is day five after the crack was discovered. Still no word from Bianchi USA neither. I was told by my LBS that they sent in pics through email and had to fill out a packet. I was told the Bianchi USA rep was at Interbike in Vegas last week and was busy taking orders for new bikes now, plus getting caught up on regular business. Hope to hear something before Friday. Good thing I own a Bianchi Sempre I can ride until I get another Infinito.


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## bottecchia_eja

adjtogo said:


> Bad luck and still more bad luck. Today is day five after the crack was discovered. Still no word from Bianchi USA neither. I was told by my LBS that they sent in pics through email and had to fill out a packet. I was told the Bianchi USA rep was at Interbike in Vegas last week and was busy taking orders for new bikes now, plus getting caught up on regular business. Hope to hear something before Friday. Good thing I own a Bianchi Sempre I can ride until I get another Infinito.


Arg...I am impatient when it comes to certain things. The wait to get a decision would drive me up a wall :mad2:

Hang in there man..we are with you. :thumbsup:


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## qatarbhoy

adjtogo said:


> Bad luck and still more bad luck.... Good thing I own a Bianchi Sempre I can ride until I get another Infinito.


You see, you emphasise all your bad luck only to drop this in as if it's a mere bagatelle! Let me know if you have any more spare Bianchis cluttering up your home!


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## speedracers4

You don't happen to have pictures of the crack do you? Just curious on how it look.


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## imitsus

you ll have to see the bright side of the crack, .... you ll have a new bike soon.

Yesterday, I went on a bianchisti who has a 6 months old sempre with a crack at the chainstay, left side, 1 cm from the axle.

He would get a new frame on warranty, but there was an option from the dealer to buy a new Oltre frameset for just 900 euros plus .....:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:

I m soo jealous


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## adjtogo

I'm actually still in the waiting game yet. The Bianchi rep is traveling and had to contact someone higher than himself for review. The LBS sent pics into the rep and he has seen the crack. Hopefully, I'll hear something soon and I'll have options too.


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## stickboybike

Check back with the shop weekly with regards to your warranty being processed. What state do you live in?


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## adjtogo

I live in Florida. I've been calling the LBS once a day for the past week. The last update I received was that the Bianchi rep needed more pics, which the LBS sent them on Thursday afternoon. The Bianchi rep said he has to meet with three other Bianchi reps to make a decision. Clearly, I did not do anything to cause a crack or damage. I was just riding on the road like I usually do. If they think I caused the damage on purpose or with neglect, that would be like shooting myself in the foot after spending $3500 for a bike that I treasure.


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## imitsus

Okay!!!!

Yesterday I was on my lbs trying to fix my mtb when a guy with an infinito came telling that he was hearing a noise from the center of the bike. While waiting and as infinito owner myself, I suggested him to take it for a ride just to see how a 100mm stem is compared to my 110mm stem (both 59 frames). I did 1 km and returned. 
"- well??? did you hear the noise?",
"- Yeah, must be a loosened bb... or a crack !." I joked 

He looked at me with a strange look and started ispecting the bike. When he turned upside down , there it was.... a crack just below BB to the joint of chainstays. 


THis was a 6 months old frame, mine is 18 months. Dont know if I m waiting for my crack to come soon....


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## adjtogo

Sorry to hear about the crack. There are at least three Infinito bikes I know of now that have cracked frames in various places. That kind of tells me it's a design flaw or a defect in manufacturing. Either way, I'm not happy with the crack so soon and the way Bianchi is dragging their feet. It's been nearly two full weeks and the LBS just got authorization to send the frame back to Bianchi USA in Ohio. Now Bianchi wants to inspect the frame in person as the pics weren't disclosing enough info for them. Bianchi may not even have the frame until Friday or Monday, further delaying their decision. I don't know what they are going to do at this point but I don't think I want another Infinito frame, if they even offer me anything at all.


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## mness

Bummer. When I had a cracked Gary Fisher, a Trek rep visited the shop and authorized the replacement. But Trek's much bigger than Bianchi.


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## kbwh

This thread made me inspect my Infinito. Safe and sound, but if it should crack I'll get a Celeste bike again.


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## imitsus

kbwh said:


> This thread made me inspect my Infinito. Safe and sound, but if it should crack I'll get a Celeste bike again.


sure. I would consider an upgrade to oltre. The sempre friend upgraded to oltre (full black).

Now he is on a trip where he has to upgrade many parts (including legs):aureola:


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## kbwh

imitsus said:


> friend upgraded to oltre (*full black*).


Slap him.


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## imitsus

kbwh said:


> slap him. :d


:d
:d
:d
:d
:d


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## adjtogo

Here it is two weeks from the day that I discovered the frame had a crack in it...and no word from Bianchi yet. The last I talked to the LBS was on Monday and they just got authorization from Bianchi USA to RMA it back to them in Ohio. The LBS was supposed to send it out on Tuesday. I figured 3 days shipping time, which means the frame should be there sometime Friday. Now, I don't know if Bianchi will look at it today, but my patience is starting to run out. Two weeks!!! WTF, over!!!


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## Kodi Crescent

imitsus said:


> Okay!!!!
> 
> Yesterday I was on my lbs trying to fix my mtb when a guy with an infinito came telling that he was hearing a noise from the center of the bike. While waiting and as infinito owner myself, I suggested him to take it for a ride just to see how a 100mm stem is compared to my 110mm stem (both 59 frames). I did 1 km and returned.
> "- well??? did you hear the noise?",
> "- Yeah, must be a loosened bb... or a crack !." I joked
> 
> He looked at me with a strange look and started ispecting the bike. When he turned upside down , there it was.... a crack just below BB to the joint of chainstays.
> 
> 
> THis was a 6 months old frame, mine is 18 months. Dont know if I m waiting for my crack to come soon....


2011 bike?

I was riding the other day and kept hearing a "noise". It's a brand new bike. I just took the seat and seatpost apart to grease it and apply carbon paste, but now I'll go check! (I hope it was just seat creak).


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## jj1960

Total BS, my 05 Luna frame developed two cracks in the seat tube. Brought it to my LBS that sold it to me and had an offer from Bianchi USA for a discount on an Infinito or Sempre frame that afternoon. Doesn't make sense that they would drag their feet over a frame under warannty. Sorry to hear about your situation, hope it's resolved soon.


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## adjtogo

Here's the latest update as of Saturday afternoon. The LBS shipped the bike and Bianchi has received it. The LBS called and left a voice mail on Friday with Bianchi. I was told the day my frame cracked, Interbike was still going on in Vegas. The following week, the Bianchi reps were traveling. Last week, I was told they needed more pics and to send the bike back. Now, I've heard that the Bianchi reps were busy taking new orders with all LBS owners to fulfill orders after Interbike. Next I heard it takes three reps to look at the bike and make a decision. Then I heard they were hopefully going to give me an answer on Monday. I can understand being busy and trying to meet sales goals, but this is just taking way too long!! 

I don't know about you, but I believe in customer service first by taking care of current problems with existing customers, especially since it won't take but a few minutes to look at the bike to see the crack and make a decision. I'm hoping they do something positive and give me options. At this point, after reading more posts from other cycling chat boards and finding mor Infinito owners with cracks in varios places, I don't really want another Infinito. I hope they do decide to replace the frame, but offer me options for uogrades. But, to tell you the truth, I'm not holding my breath for anything.


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## qatarbhoy

adjtogo said:


> I don't know about you, but I believe in customer service first by taking care of current problems with existing customers, especially since it won't take but a few minutes to look at the bike to see the crack and make a decision.


Agreed, and they're more likely to get new customers if people see that the customer service post-sale is right.


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## Kodi Crescent

I'm really sorry to hear this.  Hopefully it gets resolved in an acceptable manner.


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## bottecchia_eja

adjtogo said:


> Here's the latest update as of Saturday afternoon. The LBS shipped the bike and Bianchi has received it. The LBS called and left a voice mail on Friday with Bianchi. I was told the day my frame cracked, Interbike was still going on in Vegas. The following week, the Bianchi reps were traveling. Last week, I was told they needed more pics and to send the bike back. Now, I've heard that the Bianchi reps were busy taking new orders with all LBS owners to fulfill orders after Interbike. Next I heard it takes three reps to look at the bike and make a decision. Then I heard they were hopefully going to give me an answer on Monday. I can understand being busy and trying to meet sales goals, but this is just taking way too long!!
> 
> I don't know about you, but I believe in customer service first by taking care of current problems with existing customers, especially since it won't take but a few minutes to look at the bike to see the crack and make a decision. I'm hoping they do something positive and give me options. At this point, after reading more posts from other cycling chat boards and finding mor Infinito owners with cracks in varios places, I don't really want another Infinito. I hope they do decide to replace the frame, but offer me options for uogrades. But, to tell you the truth, I'm not holding my breath for anything.


I feel your pain. I am horribly impatient and it would drive me up a wall to have to wait this long to get a resolution.

Bianchi USA is a small outfit. Its HQ is located in Hayward California. Yesterday I met a couple of the reps who were attending the Orange County (California) Bianchi Gran Fondo. (It was a fun ride!).

I mentioned to them that I had heard about problems with Infinito frames cracking at the chainstays. They were sales rep and had not heard of the issue. They mentioned a couple of things though, they said that the Infinito was tested by an Italian racing team before it was released and they had not problems. They also showed me that the Oltre's chainstays are even thinner than the Infinitos and had not problem reported. Finally, they added Bianchi really goes out of its way to honor warranty claims (though their delay in your case is inexcusable).

I told them that they HAD better take care of their warranty claims or else there was going to be a backlash, somethign they don't need at a time when Bianchi is trying to establish a beachhead in the USA. 

Let's hope that they do right by you. If not, you can always get a lawyer who specializes in consumer law.

BTW, for whatever it is worth - I have a tad over 1200 miles on my Infinito and I havenot had any problems with it. I am not exactly a lightweight guy and some of the roads here are pretty rough, so the bike gets a good "work out." I guess my point is: don't give up on the Infinito - not just yet!


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## imitsus

In my opinion, you should cool down and wait. Your frame has 5 years warranty. Okay, they didnt check-answer it in 2 weeks time but for me this is no big deal. You dont want to know how long it took to get a replacement frame for my yeti back here in greece. I even had to pay taxes!!!!!

And there is no infinito issue, is just the percentage of frames that WILL fail because of statistical issues. You had bad luck, but on the other hand you ll get a new frame....

Be patient! Ciao


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## todayilearned

adjtogo said:


> *I don't know about you, but I believe in customer service first by taking care of current problems with existing customers*, especially since it won't take but a few minutes to look at the bike to see the crack and make a decision.


Sounds like the product of correct logic.


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## Kodi Crescent

I know it's inconvenient, but these guys are right. You need to be patient. I'd be upset too, but you are kind of at their mercy at this point.


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## adjtogo

I know I need t be more patient and am at the mercy of Bianchi right now. However, I am hoping the issue is resolved today...


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## bottecchia_eja

adjtogo said:


> I know I need t be more patient and am at the mercy of Bianchi right now. However, I am hoping the issue is resolved today...


Any (good) news? I am hoping for a favorable (and quick) resolution of your cracked frame problem. :thumbsup:


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## qatarbhoy

All this waiting must totally suck. 

I found what looked like a hairline crack under the clearcoat in the carbon seatstay of my Trek a couple of weeks back. Even though I live in the Middle East my LBS got a reply from Wisconsin PDQ and I am now simply sitting back waiting for the replacement frameset to arrive. (A 2.3 in place of my 2.1 - although tbh I think the frames are identical! Only the component spec differs, and of course my old groupset will be swapped over.) 

At this point Bianchi can have no excuse for further delay.


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## adjtogo

The latest news I received was last night, exactly three weeks after the frame was discovered cracked. The bike has been shipped back to the Bianchi rep in Ohio and Bianchi has received it, but no decision has been made. I was also told the Bianchi rep was going to be visiting the LBS on Tuesday but the LBS was unsure if he was bringing a frame with him or not. 

To me, it's absolutely bad customer service to take this long.


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## qatarbhoy

Indeed, one would expect them to be cyclists and to know the pain of being without one's bicycle.


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## Kodi Crescent

Any update on this?


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## qatarbhoy

Bianchi Customer Service Dept.:


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## adjtogo

I still haven't heard a thing, and here it is, Saturday, October 22nd. During the past week, the Bianchi rep visited both locations of the bike shop, once on Tuesday and once on Thursday. I called every day this past week and the LBS told me they still did not have an answer. The latest news was that the bike is in the corporate office in Ohio and was going to get x-rays, but no determination has been made yet.

After a month since the crack happened, I'm totally convinced that customer service at Bianchi sucks. I'm convinced they are concerned with only the sale of the bike, not service-after-the-sale. And which is why I am never, ever going to buy another Bianchi bike again and the exact reason why I'm putting up my Bianchi Sempre 105/mix for sale. I can't ride a bike that has piss-poor customer service. 

At this point, I know the bike has been stripped of all parts and the frame only has been shipped to Bianchi for inspection. Sometime this week, I plan on going to the LBS and picking up all my parts of the bike and moving on to either buy a frame from Giant or Specialized and proceed to build a new bike, or just sell all the parts and wheels for what I can get for them, and just get out of cycling altogether. 

Anyone interested in a Sempre 105/mix? I bought it at the end of May but didn't ride it until the middle of June. It has about 1K miles on it. Paid $2500 after adding Conti Gatorskin wheels and a new saddle. Will take $1800 OBO.


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## MerlinDS

That's why I buy trek, John Burke. Who is the pres of bianchi, no idea. It will all work out, it just might take a mth.


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## adjtogo

Well, 4 weeks is a month. Did you mean it might take another month? I'm just so tired of the waiting right now. I hope anyone thinking of buying a Bianchi will think twice. Customer service comes with pre-sales and after-sale. Apparently, they just want to sell bikes, but not take care of customers. I've already made up my mind to move beyond the Bianchi brand because I don't trust the product anymore and I certainly give customer service an F- rating.


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## spade2you

There's your dealer, the supplier, the rep, and the company. Slacking on anyone's part brings it to a grinding halt.


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## adjtogo

Well, as they say, someone dropped the ball. and it wasn't me. Somewhere in the chain, as you stated, someone isn't doing their job. There's absolutely no way it should take this long to resolve any customer service issues. I hope this is fair warning to anyone thinking of buying a Bianchi. If this is what you're going to be treated like, you're better off to buy elsewhere. I'm out $3500 right now. That's a hard pill to swallow, especially since I saved for quite a while and paid cash for the bike.


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## spade2you

Stay on them, but keep in mind, as something I've told many nurses, is that yelling doesn't make people go faster. Also keep in mind that one might quickly blame the other. When you're dealing with replacing a product of this value, very few companies will resolve it quickly since they're out the $.


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## qatarbhoy

spade2you said:


> When you're dealing with replacing a product of this value, very few companies will resolve it quickly since *you're* out the $.


FIFY. 

Poor show from Bianchi.


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## BrentWayne

*x-rays?*

"The latest news was that the bike is in the corporate office in Ohio and was going to get x-rays, but no determination has been made yet."

I know it is just me but a cracked frame IMO should really just require visually looking at it to see if it looked grossly mistreated. If yes get more info....If no send out new frame SAP. X-rays are for identifying ways to increase reliability in next year's model.  

Hopefully this will get resolved and you will get back to enjoying your bike(s). Most likely your dealer wants to get this resolved as much as you do.


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## spade2you

qatarbhoy said:


> FIFY.
> 
> Poor show from Bianchi.


Unless an extremely small company, the manufacturer does not deal with individual customers. 

I'm not absolving Bianchi, but I think this probably has something to do with the chain of command Bianchi USA and below.


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## Bizman

Sorry to hear about this Adjtogo. Originaly I was going to buy the Infinito but at the time it just didn't work out because of size and color. By the sounds of your luck with customer service I am glad I didn't buy it. I went with the Lynskey as the dealer I was dealing with for both brands said he viewed carbon bikes like a bike that wouldn't last like a Ti bike. I guess it worked out for the best as the Lynskey is working great and I don't worry about a broken frame, although I know it could happen but I think far less of a chance that Ti. 

I realize your frustration but you could get another brand of bike? It seems harsh to get out of biking if you enjoy it? You must as you had just bought 2 in the last year or so? I would probably sell the Sempre too, no sense on chancing something going wrong with it and having to deal with Bianchi customer service again. Good luck to you and keep us posted!


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## adjtogo

What frustrates me the most is I took it to the LBS on a Friday. I didn't expect to hear anything until the following Tuesday as the LBS took pics and sent it to their Bianchi rep on that following Monday. Tuesday turned into Wednesday, and so on. I figured, OK, maybe by the following Monday. Nothing. I called the LBS every single day and heard one thing after another as to what was happening. A week turned into two, then three, now over four weeks. This past week, I was the most hopeful as the Bianchi rep visited the LBS twice. Still no answer. The LBS told me it was out of their hands but have been checking in with Bianchi regularly. The lack of customer service's urgency is why I will not buy another Bianchi and why I will not recommend their brand to anyone. 

I can't blame anyone at the LBS as they've always treated me more than fair. I know they're doing what they can and must be as frustrated as I am. But, unfortunately, when it comes to buying a new bike, I might have to look elsewhere. They do sell Giant bikes, which I've owned in the past. 

A Lynsky Ti bike might be a consideration. I heard Lynsky gives a military discount.


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## spade2you

Bizman said:


> Sorry to hear about this Adjtogo. Originaly I was going to buy the Infinito but at the time it just didn't work out because of size and color. By the sounds of your luck with customer service I am glad I didn't buy it. I went with the Lynskey as the dealer I was dealing with for both brands said he viewed carbon bikes like a bike that wouldn't last like a Ti bike. I guess it worked out for the best as the Lynskey is working great and I don't worry about a broken frame, although I know it could happen but I think far less of a chance that Ti.
> 
> I realize your frustration but you could get another brand of bike? It seems harsh to get out of biking if you enjoy it? You must as you had just bought 2 in the last year or so? I would probably sell the Sempre too, no sense on chancing something going wrong with it and having to deal with Bianchi customer service again. Good luck to you and keep us posted!


Sooner or later, most companies will produce a dud frame and pull a move like this. Of all the major brands, I think I've heard of someone having a story like this.


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## crowski31

At the shop I work at here in Denver we carry Bianchi and have run across this problem many times. They usually take about 6-8 weeks to warranty products as opposed to Trek or Scott which warranty things much faster. They do stand by their product it just takes a really long time for some reason. It is a shame because they make a great product but it makes me question whether I want to get a Sempre or not because I would rather get something that would be replaced quickly if I ever had a problem with it.


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## imitsus

spade2you said:


> Unless an extremely small company, the manufacturer does not deal with individual customers.
> 
> I'm not absolving Bianchi, but I think this probably has something to do with the chain of command Bianchi USA and below.


I totally agree with that. Do you remember on this thread about 2 bikes that I know having cracks? Well, tomorrow, oltre is coming and I think this week infinito came. And we are takling about little Greece in big big eco-crisis....

You of course can blame bianchi USA....


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## adjtogo

6-8 weeks!!!! That, to me, is totally unacceptable. Since I posted this about my Infinito, I've had several emails from other Infinito and Sempre owners who had similar problems with frame cracks. Some were offered an upgrade to Oltre frames. Some were offered a new model year Infinito. Hearing these horror stories of cracks really makes me wonder if Bianchi took shortcuts in its testing phase of the frame to get it out there quickly. And whomever manufactured it for Bianchi, maybe it was their fault for shoddy work. I don't know. But I do know one thing. 6-8 weeks is a totally unacceptable time frame to get an answer. That is exreemely poor customer service. That has really made my mind up to just get rid of the Sempre, just in case something happens to that too. And if Bianchi ever resolves my cracked Infinito case, I'll be happy to sell the frame and move on to a brand that will stand by their warranty and provide much better customer service.


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## spade2you

crowski31 said:


> At the shop I work at here in Denver we carry Bianchi and have run across this problem many times. They usually take about 6-8 weeks to warranty products as opposed to Trek or Scott which warranty things much faster. They do stand by their product it just takes a really long time for some reason. It is a shame because they make a great product but it makes me question whether I want to get a Sempre or not because I would rather get something that would be replaced quickly if I ever had a problem with it.


Again, I'm hardly absolving Bianchi from this yet, but a friend of mine had a Trek. After putting it together and assembling it, he noticed a hairline crack on the seat tube. It was mostly cosmetic, but Trek would not warranty it. 

It's very easy to say that this is a Bianchi epidemic, but all companies will have a few duds and very few will be as quick to fix them as we'd like.


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## qatarbhoy

spade2you said:


> Again, I'm hardly absolving Bianchi from this yet, but a friend of mine had a Trek. After putting it together and assembling it, he noticed a hairline crack on the seat tube. It was mostly cosmetic, but Trek would not warranty it.


Don't Trek only sell assembled bikes?

My warranty frameset from Trek will probably make it from Wisconsin to the Middle East before ADJ even gets an _answer_...


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## spade2you

qatarbhoy said:


> Don't Trek only sell assembled bikes?
> 
> My warranty frameset from Trek will probably make it from Wisconsin to the Middle East before ADJ even gets an _answer_...


Trek doesn't sell just frames, but most companies ship bikes unassembled. I believe he was working part time at the bike shop and part of his discount was from putting the bike together.


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## Kodi Crescent

This may be a cultural issue. American's are fast paced. Latin-type countries...not so much. Life moves much more slowly for them. I'm not excusing the delay, I'm just saying that it may be a product of cultural differences.

And while Bianchi USA is in the USA, they still answer to the powers-that-be in Italy.


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## adjtogo

Kodi Crescent said:


> This may be a cultural issue. American's are fast paced. Latin-type countries...not so much. Life moves much more slowly for them. I'm not excusing the delay, I'm just saying that it may be a product of cultural differences.
> 
> And while Bianchi USA is in the USA, they still answer to the powers-that-be in Italy.


The last I knew, Italy wasn't a latin country.


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## kbwh

That would be the Vatican.
Seriously: Last time I checked Italian, Spanish and French were considered latin languages.


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## qatarbhoy

Surely you guys have heard of the Catholic Work Ethic?


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## Kodi Crescent

adjtogo said:


> The last I knew, Italy wasn't a latin country.


Instead of Latin countries, would you have preferred "countries with a slow, lazy, or very laid back work ethics"?


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## Sharknose

adjtogo said:


> The last I knew, Italy wasn't a latin country.


You can't get more Latin than Italy.

The Latins were a tribe of peoples living in the Latium region of south-central Italy. Latin was their language, and by conquest they 'latinized' the rest of Italy. Italy is a member of the Latin Union (Unione Latina), an organization of countries that use the Romance Languages. Italy is also part of Latin Europe - countries with a cultural heritage from the Roman empire. 

Latin-American refers to those countries in the Americas where the Romance Languages are spoken. In the US, the term is often used to mean "anybody south of the US border".


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## imitsus

Kodi Crescent said:


> Instead of Latin countries, would you have preferred "countries with a slow, lazy, or very laid back work ethics"?


Hello "fast paced" american

What do you know about "countries with a slow, lazy, or very laid back work ethics"?

Do you know anything about Italy, or Europe? 

fast paced....:idea:


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## adjtogo

All kidding aside about latin and laid back and slow, here's an update on the bike:

After 4 1/2 weeks of frustration, I decided to contact Bianchi through their online email contact form. A few days later, the actual rep from Bianchi emailed me and told me the truth, not the run-around I've been given from my LBS.

The frame didn't even arrive at Bianchi USA until 10/24. For the whole month prior to it arriving, I've been told one thing after another by the LBS like they were "tap dancing". The Bianchi rep did say he received a set of pictures during the week of 9/26 and wanted the frame for inspection because the pictures weren't conclusive. Why it took so long to get the frame to California is beyond me. I was told it was sent to Ohio by the LBS, but Bianchi USA provided me a UPS tracking number that proved otherwise. 

I spoke with the Bianchi USA rep on Thursday afternoon and he explained everything to me very thoroughly about carbon fiber bikes and how they are woven together and how no one bike will come out exactly the same as the next in production. So, where the crack happened, is not a likely place it could have happened because the seatstay has little stress on it. However, that's not to say it couldn't happen. He noticed a few scratches on the paint and where the clearcoat had rubbed off, which could mean a rock or stick might have gotten thrown up by the rear wheel and hit the stay with such force that it could have cracked it. Or the other theory was that the chain jumped off the derailer and hit the spokes and the chain could have caused the damage to the frame. I explained that I was just going through an intersection with a red light that just changed to green and was speeding up and shifted to a lower gear to gain speed. The chain shifted smoothly downward and within a few seconds after that shift is when I heard the crack and that's when I noticed the gears shifting on their own up and down, but the chain never left any of the rear cogs. After it shifted and jumped, I slowed down and headed back home, inspected the bike, and noticed the crack.

So, he set up a call tag for me to send the rear wheel, rear derailer, and chain for him to inspect. It will take 4-5 days for Fedex to get it to California from Florida. Once he gets it, he said he'd immediately inspect it. Next step, he'd have to call Bianchi in Italy to let them know his findings and get permission from them as to what to do next. He explained what is warantied and what is not. He was very thorough and honest with me. I have faith that I will be given a straight and up-front answer and not be "blown-off" or given the run-around. 

I know I got pretty frustrated in the past 4 1/2 weeks. I think anyone would have with an expensive bike. But, at least I know it's in good hands now, and in the right hands. The hardest part is the "not knowing" status and "not knowing" who is and isn't telling the truth or "getting the feeling" that I'm being given the run around. At least I know the truth now and at least I know someone at Bianchi is in contact with me directly.

As far as the LBS goes, they have always treated me good in the past. I purchased three bikes from them. In this case, I just don't think everything could have been handled better. They are still the best bike shop in the area.

And, whatever Bianchi decides to do, whether it be replacing the frame, deciding it's not covered under warranty, or whether they recommend a repair facility, I've done a lot of deep thinking. I've decided to sell the Infinito once it's put back together, and sell the Sempre and buy a titanium framed bike. After this experience, I just don't want to take a chance on it happening again. I've already inquired about the Ti frame directly from the manufacturer. Being prior military with a disability card, I'll get a 30% discount off of the frame and fork. That's the route I'm going.


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## qatarbhoy

> _The frame didn't even arrive at Bianchi USA until 10/24. _


Wow. I would have done my nut on hearing that.

I noticed a tiny line on my Trek's seatstay on 24th September and took pics, emailed them to my LBS here in the Middle East. Their rep took a look and thought it was indeed a crack in the CF. Trek agreed to warranty the frameset within days. Because I wanted to save money on the delivery cost it was shipped yesterday with the LBS's other orders. It will be brought here next weekend and built up for me. And that's for a customer in the middle of nowhere who bought a bike worth about 1/3 of the Infinito's value...


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## adjtogo

I'm not blaming the delay on Bianchi. It's not their fault. It's the lack of responsiveness and urgency on the other end. At least I'm in direct contact with Bianchi now and am sure they will treat me fairly with a sense of urgency, since I explained everything to the rep with the delays from the LBS.


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## spade2you

qatarbhoy said:


> And that's for a customer in the middle of nowhere who bought a bike worth about 1/3 of the Infinito's value...


Which is probably why Trek was so willing to part with it so quickly. When it comes to high end frames, they ALL drag their feet, even Trek.


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## qatarbhoy

spade2you said:


> Which is probably why Trek was so willing to part with it so quickly. When it comes to high end frames, they ALL drag their feet, even Trek.


Sure, 'cos the big-spending customer is the one you want to lose...


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## spade2you

qatarbhoy said:


> Sure, 'cos the big-spending customer is the one you want to lose...


Giving away a frame quickly eats the profits.


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## stickboybike

The thing to remember too is that Trek is a massive company. At least here in the US. Bianchi is super small and quantities of their bikes are super small from a production level. 

Just look at the latest recall by Trek for 27,000 of their 2012 bikes. That number is spread across roughly 7 of their models for one model year. At some point, quality has to drop in order to meet production volume. It happens with automobiles (domestic companies-the Detroit 3), bikes, etc. 

While there is a situation on this thread about a warranty going on too long, you're not seeing Bianchi having recalls of thousands of bikes like Trek and Felt (fork recall in 2011).

Good luck with the new Ti bike. Wish the Bianchi S9 Matta was still around.


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## qatarbhoy

spade2you said:


> Giving away a frame quickly eats the profits.


Carbon fibre frames cost peanuts to make. The profit margins are huge. 

Giving away a customer (like the OP, who will sell his Bianchis to go titanium) is even more costly.


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## stickboybike

Carbon bikes aren't for everyone and given this consumer's buyers remorse, may have been a Ti-guy from the get go. Not saying who's wrong or right, seen this from my shop days too.


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## spade2you

qatarbhoy said:


> Carbon fibre frames cost peanuts to make. The profit margins are huge.
> 
> Giving away a customer (like the OP, who will sell his Bianchis to go titanium) is even more costly.


We get it, Bianchi sucks and we should all get a Trek.


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## spade2you

stickboybike said:


> The thing to remember too is that Trek is a massive company. At least here in the US. Bianchi is super small and quantities of their bikes are super small from a production level.
> 
> Just look at the latest recall by Trek for 27,000 of their 2012 bikes. That number is spread across roughly 7 of their models for one model year. At some point, quality has to drop in order to meet production volume. It happens with automobiles (domestic companies-the Detroit 3), bikes, etc.
> 
> While there is a situation on this thread about a warranty going on too long, you're not seeing Bianchi having recalls of thousands of bikes like Trek and Felt (fork recall in 2011).
> 
> Good luck with the new Ti bike. Wish the Bianchi S9 Matta was still around.


I believe there were 1 or 2 928SL IASP frames in my size when I ordered it, which is why I ordered it, unfortunately.


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## stickboybike

Eh, I'm not saying Trek bikes are terrible. I wouldn't want everyone on a Bianchi either nor everyone driving an Audi or everyone using Apple products. The world needs diversity, not domination in order to evolve and flourish.


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## qatarbhoy

spade2you said:


> We get it, Bianchi sucks and we should all get a Trek.


Not at all: I would've bought a Sempre (having taken ADJ's advice re the Sempre vs Infinito) had CC not offered such great deals on BMCs. $3500 for a Sempre with Force or $3500 for a BMC RaceMachine with Red?


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## stickboybike

If the almighty dollar steers your decision=win.


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## qatarbhoy

stickboybike said:


> If the almighty dollar steers your decision=win.


Obviously there's more to it than that, but few of us don't have budgetary considerations and generally people like to get the best deal they can for their money.


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## stickboybike

Yup, generally people want the 'best deal'. 

20 years of working retail in the outdoor sports channels made me aware of that and I don't miss those days one bit.


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## jeffbook

adjtogo said:


> The frame didn't even arrive at Bianchi USA until 10/24. For the whole month prior to it arriving, I've been told one thing after another by the LBS like they were "tap dancing". The Bianchi rep did say he received a set of pictures during the week of 9/26 and wanted the frame for inspection because the pictures weren't conclusive. Why it took so long to get the frame to California is beyond me. I was told it was sent to Ohio by the LBS, but Bianchi USA provided me a UPS tracking number that proved otherwise.
> 
> I know I got pretty frustrated in the past 4 1/2 weeks. I think anyone would have with an expensive bike. But, at least I know it's in good hands now, and in the right hands. The hardest part is the "not knowing" status and "not knowing" who is and isn't telling the truth or "getting the feeling" that I'm being given the run around. At least I know the truth now and at least I know someone at Bianchi is in contact with me directly.
> 
> As far as the LBS goes, they have always treated me good in the past. I purchased three bikes from them. In this case, I just don't think everything could have been handled better. They are still the best bike shop in the area.


Well, your LBS may be the best around, but based on your comments above, it would seem that they dished some serious misinforamtion about when the frame was shipped and where it was shipped to. If this were to happen to me, I would have serious misgivings about directing any business their way in the future.

It would also appear to me, based on your post, that Bianchi is very serious about evaulating this failure in a thorough manner. As an engineer who just purchased an Infinito frame in September, I am very interested in hearing about their findings. 

Interestingly enough, I transitioned from a titanium frame to the Infinito. I did not sell my old 1992 Litespeed built LeMond Ti/3/2.5GL. I am rebuilding it into the "spare" bike over this winter.

Good luck with your Ti bike, and please keep us posted on the failure analysis of the Infinito.


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## Kodi Crescent

But sometimes the "best deal" isn't the product with the lowest price. It takes awhile to learn that.


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## qatarbhoy

I think we all know that.


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## spade2you

Kodi Crescent said:


> But sometimes the "best deal" isn't the product with the lowest price. It takes awhile to learn that.


Wrong. The Chinarello frame is made by the same peoples!!!!!!!!!


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## adjtogo

jeffbook said:


> Well, your LBS may be the best around, but based on your comments above, it would seem that they dished some serious misinforamtion about when the frame was shipped and where it was shipped to. If this were to happen to me, I would have serious misgivings about directing any business their way in the future.
> 
> It would also appear to me, based on your post, that Bianchi is very serious about evaulating this failure in a thorough manner. As an engineer who just purchased an Infinito frame in September, I am very interested in hearing about their findings.
> 
> Interestingly enough, I transitioned from a titanium frame to the Infinito. I did not sell my old 1992 Litespeed built LeMond Ti/3/2.5GL. I am rebuilding it into the "spare" bike over this winter.
> 
> Good luck with your Ti bike, and please keep us posted on the failure analysis of the Infinito.


Like I said, I've always been treated fairly by the LBS and never had any second thoughts about buying more than one Bianchi from them. But after this crack happened, it is now very clear who was delaying the process and blowing me off. At least now, I'm in direct contact with Bianchi,

And one other note, as I was talking Titanium bikes vs. carbon fiber bikes with Bianchi, the rep did tell me that the way carbon bikes are woven together, it is nearly impossible to get exact copies of each bike. Every bike may have just an ever so slight difference in the way it's woven together. Therefore, a crack that may inadvertently crack in one sopt on one carbon bike, may not crack at all on the same exact carbon fiber bike at all. He explained, at worst case, even if something got picked up by the wheel and hit the seat stay on a Ti bike, it probably wouldn't leave but a little ding, if any at all. He also said carbon can be cracked based on stress of the bike, production defect, or even if something was bluntly thrown against it. And that is the exact reason why I've decided to sell the Sempre and buy a Ti bike. Whatever the outcome is on the Infinito, whether Bianchi replaces it out of the good of their hearts, warrantied or not, repaired or not, I'm going to sell that too whenever I get it back.

I'm sure all manufacturers have defects or problems with carbon bikes from time to time, I'm sure they were all made with the best quality specifications and quality control. It's just unfortunate that mine cracked and am not sure what Bianchi is going to do once they get the real wheel, chain, and derailer. 

I should have listened to the old LBS mechanic last year before I bought the Infinito. He told me, at that time, I'd be better off with a Ti bike because they are much stronger and will last longer than a carbon bike. But I wanted to be like the big dogs in the TdF and ride carbon. Lessons learned. It's Ti for me from here on in.

So, anyone want to buy the Sempre 105 mix? It's a fantastic bike.


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## Kodi Crescent

Any updates?


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## adjtogo

Here's the latest update.

The frame has been inspected by Bianchi. They needed the rear wheel, chain, and derailer. Those were sent out on 11/1/11 and they have inspected those too. The rear wheel had a spoke slightly bent at less than 1/16th of an inch with the three spokes near the bent one had minor paint removal. The reat cassette had some minor rust and the chain had some scratches on it. Bianchi has determined that something was picked up by my wheel and caught the spoke, which caused the object to hit the frame and crack. Further, one of the wheels on the derailer is cracked. Now, mind you, going 20 mph and gaining speed, I didn't see any debris on the road, but that doesn't mean there couldn't have been something small there. The only thing I heard was the cracking noise and that's when I noticed the gears shifting on their own. So, because it was not a defect in manufacturing, Bianchi rightfully won't replace the frame at their cost.

Bianchi has given me two choices:

1. Send out the frame for repair at $500. They have already got an estmate on it from the repair company.

2. A crash replacement frame for $600.

The repair is out of the question.

So, what I'm doing now is discussing other options with Bianchi. I'm thinking total bike replacement now and using the crash assistance and applying it to a brand new bike. What model yet is to be determined. It may be another Infinito, or it may be another model, depends on how much extra it's going to cost me. 

The next step in the process is finding a bike shop in my area that they can work with on sending whatever bike I choose to build up for me. I don't really want to go back to the Bianchi shop in my area since I think that's where the initial run-around and lack of urgency started. This may take until the end of next week to find one that will accept the bike from Bianchi since there's no other Bianchi dealers within 200 miles of me. 


I know Bianchi is handling this fairly and working hard to resolve the issue. And let me add, they have been very courteous and professional about the whole thing. They have been very patient with me even though I was very frustrated to begin with when things started to get out of hand. I'm just looking forward to a resolution and getting back to riding.


----------



## Kodi Crescent

Thanks for the update.

What is a "crash replacement" frame? Is that a new frame at a special price because yours was cracked? Or is it one that was crashed, repaired, and sold like a refurbished item?


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## qatarbhoy

Crash replacement schemes usually mean you get a replacement frame at a lower price - say, 40% of normal cost.

ADJ, in your case are you getting $600 _off_ the price of a replacement frame? Or an Infinito frame for $600?


----------



## adjtogo

The "crash replacement" will be a brand new Infinito frame, not one that has been repaired nor refurbed. Bianchi was nice enough to offer that assistance to me. But like I said, I'm looking at other options for different Bianchi models right now. From what I've seen, it's probably going to be another Infinito. And since they inspected the chain, rear derailer, and wheel, all of which have minor damage that will need to be repaired, I'm opting for a complete bike rather than just the frame. I'll have to pay the difference in price, but I want to start out fresh with brand new everything. It's just a matter of how much can I afford and what group set to get within my budget. 

I'm hoping to get things resolved today. I don't have any hard feelings anymore with the LBS, who had some missteps along the way with lack of urgency and such. They probably got busy with other responsibilities. As I stated previously, they have always treated me fairly and have always been my favorite shop. It's kind of like getting mad at your wife. Something happens, words are said, then it's time to make up and move forward in a positive direction. Things happen. We're all human.

It's kind of like when I had a 2004 GMC Savana cargo van I bought brand new. It came with a 36/36,000 mile warranty. GM made me a deal when I bought the van to put an extra 6 months warranty on the vehicle to make it 42 months. At the 43rd month of ownership and just over 37,000 miles, the rear differential disintegrated as I was driving down the road. Had to get it towed to a GMC dealer. I called GMC directly and told them the problem. They got a cost estimate of $3K to repair it. They were nice enough to pay for 75% of the damage because the vehicle was barely out of warranty.


----------



## mness

How much extra for a new Infinito? Seems like if you're going to get a new Infinito frame it'd be overkill to spend much for it to be a new bike (unless they were letting you keep your old one which you could part out & sell). The damaged parts of yours are maybe $100 (replace 3 spokes, chain, derailleur pulley), and another $100 for the shop to build up the new frame. If it'd cost you like an extra $1000 for Bianchi to give you a complete Infinito over the frame it doesn't seem worth it. There's not much wrong with your existing parts.

Though it does seem like $600 for the replacement frame is a deal since the "list price" on an Infinito frameset is about $2400.


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## adjtogo

Don't know how much it's going to cost for a complete bike yet. The first step is finding a bike shop in my area , other than the one I purchased the bike at, that Bianchi can ship the bike to and have it built up. The outside sales rep is working on that. Once a bike shop accepts the bike, the next step is pricing on a complete bike.

Yes, I will get to keep all the parts, including the frame of the bike. I maay just sell the cracked frame "as is" and be very honest with the buyer and tell them how much it will cost to get repaired. I may just sell off the parts to help pay for the new bike, or I may keep them and just decide to buy a Ti framed bike down the road and use those parts to put them on. 

I just want to have resolution soon!!


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## adjtogo

There are some late breaking developments with both the LBS owner himself, and not one of his managers or employees, Bianchi, and me. Still in the early development phase though, so I won't know the exact outcome until another day or two, but things have made a turn for the better in terms of relationships and making this situation "right".

I kind of have this analogy. A husband and wife will have blissful moments and times of terrible disagreements where they are at wits end to try to resolve a problem. The husband and wife may argue over the situation at hand and disagree. In the end, the husband and wife apologize, come to an agreement, and move forward with their relationship in a positive way. 

That is kind of the way I look at the relationship I have with the LBS. They have always been my favorite LBS until this incident. They have always treated me more than fairly. I think we both realize that we butted heads, and are now ready to move forward in a positive direction. Bianchi has been the negotiator and mediator in the whole process, trying to get us to mend our differences. Let's hope everything works out in the end...and soon!!


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## stickboybike

Good analogy.


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## Hanks

*I will NEVER buy a Bianchi*

I also would never wander into your LBS (even if I knew where it was). I was recently misinformed about a purchase price by a LBS and told when I arrived to pick up the bike they had quoted me the wrong price. I YELPED my dissapointment and was contacted by the owner the very next day with an apology and an offer to make good.
What you want is as the insurance industry phrases "to be made whole" That means that they (1). replace your frame with a new one and (2) install your (don't get picky or spendy here) componentry back on the new frame.
You know what they say about "nice guys" and I can tell you are a nice guy, but they;d have to convince me that I was riding under the influence of Propofol before I'd buy into their theory that something flew into my wheel and cracked my frame. 
The tactic of delay, delay, delay is one used very effectively by lawyers and by your LBS (though they’re probably just screw-ups) and Bianchi. How much out of pocket do you really think they’d be to have just given you a new frame $200-$300 o.k lets say $500. That’s nothing to them it’s like me sending you $5 in the mail. It’s not going to change my life. O.K my theory is that the frame cracked by itself (I’d like to see a photo) from under-design on Bianchi’s part and that the flexing frame caused the derailleur to mis-shift, chipped a tooth which impacted you spokes.
I hope you have not stated to anyone “Bianchi rightfully won't replace the frame at their cost.”

This is just wrong, the whole thing the months missed riding the only thing I’d want to hear from them is “What color frame would you like”



















I say "DON'T GIVE UP THE FIGHT" If you can stand any more this late in the game 

Dude you spent the better part of $5,000 on that bike! 

Hank


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## Nickk

Hank, I'm with you. If they make a frame that is so fragile that it can't withstand it's intended use it wasn't engineered properly.


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## qatarbhoy

Hank said pretty much what I was thinking. It's true that the derailer damage could be effect rather than cause. This isn't the first we've heard of Infinitos cracking, even brand new ones.


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## spade2you

Bianchi sux.


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## Hanks

*I think we should all do something for adjtogo*

A lot of people view this forum and we should stick up for one another. I'm not savvy enough to start a survey but if someone would do that and suggest some ideas as to how we can proceed and see that justice is done on his behalf. Tomorrow I'll find out who or how we an email at Bianchi Italy and protest on his behalf. We can flood the internet Yelp, Twitter, Facebook (looking for suggestions here).

In the meantime adjtogo post some pictures on photobucket (or whatever you use) showing the structural failure of your frame, so that the photos can be linked to this site.

Still ,

Hank


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## kbwh

Smart move to throw up dust as adjtogo and his LBS are working to reconsile. Not.


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## qatarbhoy

Mm-hmm, sounds like the LBS is moving in the right direction at this point. 

ADJ, are you getting a new Infinito frame for $600 or a discount of $600 on a frame? It wasn't clear in your post (to me, anyway).


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## stickboybike

*Agree with kbwh.*

Seriously guys, this is the reason forums are the bane of every retailers existence. Senseless opinion mongering...

@spade2you- weren't you just stoked on another thread about your new Bianchi frames you just got--928SL? And now you're jumping on the bandwagon, shouting from the rear, Bianchi Sux? dude...come on.

I'm not defending either party in this warranty issue thread but the underlying theme here is, "If you spend thousands of dollars on a carbon bike, do you honestly think that spending more than, say the aluminum version buys you some sort of an insurance policy that the frame won't ever brake?" 

The anger expressed in the thread which exceeds that of the owner of the damaged frame, shows disappointment on the minds of the repliers; expectations have not been met because no one was familiar with the manufacturer's warranty policy, there for expectations were Pie In The Sky.

It's like people who can eek out a $700/month car payment on a new Volvo or Benz C-Class and feel that buying an expensive item means buy an invincible product. 

So go ahead, jump all over me about what you feel needs to be done if you ran the universe, but like all stories, there's 2 sides to it.


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## spade2you

stickboybike said:


> @spade2you- weren't you just stoked on another thread about your new Bianchi frames you just got--928SL? And now you're jumping on the bandwagon, shouting from the rear, Bianchi Sux? dude...come on.


nah, just trolling some trolls. 

Slowly putting s Sempre together. The OP should be glad he's not extremely tall like you or short like me, which would make the process take way longer.


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## kbwh

For the record: My last comment was not directed to spade2you. 
(He knew that.)


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## stickboybike

The nice thing about being tall is that when tall ppl find a bike on ebay or craiglist that I'm selling, they're willing to pay a bit more on the auction because of so few big bike choices.


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## adjtogo

qatarbhoy said:


> Mm-hmm, sounds like the LBS is moving in the right direction at this point.
> 
> ADJ, are you getting a new Infinito frame for $600 or a discount of $600 on a frame? It wasn't clear in your post (to me, anyway).


Bianchi offered two options:

1. To send the frame out to have it repaired for $500. They have already sent it out for evaluation and a cost estimate.

2. $600 for a new Infinito frame.

As I explained to the rep. at Bianchi, I am kind of skeptical of getting another Infinito or any carbon framed road bike from any other manufacturer at this point for fear the same thing may happen again. I asked if I could look at other Bianchi frames and apply the discount they are offering for the Infinito toward a different model. He told me yes. So, that is what I'm looking at doing, but haven't really chosen one specific model yet. Bianchi has a new model out this year, a 2012 Impulso, which is based on the Infinito geometry, but made out of hydroformed aluminum. I was thinking of going that route, but a review of that bike in a popular bike magazine wasn't favorable,

Impulso Ultegra | Bianchi USA

At this point, I am just ready for closure. I'm sure the LBS owner feels just as bad as I do, and we're both ready to resolve this issue. Enflaming the situation isn't going to help any. 

First, let me say that I'm very appreciative of Bianchi for offering me a new frame for $600. But as far as the assessment by Bianchi, I don't totally agree that the crack was caused by an external source. I say, if I did actually hit something and it dented the spoke, cracked the wheel on my rear derailer, cracked the rear seatstay, and scratched the chain, I would have fallen off the bike, causing further damage. But I did not fall off the bike and the only thing I heard was a crack and felt an immediate vibration right away and began noticing the chain shifting from one cassette to another by itself. 

My conscience keeps telling me to go with my gut feeling, Get the frame. Sell it. Buy a titanium bike.


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## Lhorn

I have less than 200 miles on my 2012 Infinito so I've been watching this thread. Good luck. I noticed that I've got a very tiny paint chip on my seat stay which I think happened when I ran over a piece of hard plastic that got kicked into the spokes and carried up to smack the seatstay. I guess it happens.


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## adjtogo

The tiny paint chip on my seatstay is what I noticed first after I got home from the ride. After I looked at it further and ran my finger over the stay, I could feel the crack. That's exactly why I'm reluctant to buy another carbon bike again. If anything could have possibly hit the frame on a Ti bike, a very small ding may have occurred, not a crack.


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## lamazion

For what it's worth, I've had two frames break in my years of cycling. One was steel and the other was aluminum. Both were mfg. defects. I've ridden most material types with carbon being the most common in the last 6 years. From what you described, I think you had a defective frame. Having said that, I believe many companies these days are challenging warranty claims. I also had a Specialized Roubaix frame that needed work done on an improperly mounted FD hanger. Specialized was very prompt with the repair. I have nothing but good things to say about their service.

Good luck on whatever you decide, but I wouldn't give up on carbon based on this experience.


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## spade2you

I get the impression that a few people make up their minds really quick here. 

If there's a flaw with a common carbon frame, it doesn't take long and you'll often see recall notices like Specialized and Trek have done from time to time. 

I picked up my C2C in '07 or so, which was my first road bike. I learned to use clipless pedals on it, which means I fell a few times getting the hang of them. It has spent many seasons in the trainer. Many miles on the road, some pavement nicer than others. I've even crashed it in a crit. This bike is still going strong and the only reason I'm retiring it is to upgrade to 11 speed and add a power meter.


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## qatarbhoy

> 2. $600 for a new Infinito frame. ... First, let me say that I'm very appreciative of Bianchi for offering me a new frame for $600. But as far as the assessment by Bianchi, I don't totally agree that the crack was caused by an external source.


$600 for a new frame isn't a bad offer (basically a crash replacement deal), but not if you feel the frame was faulty and should really have been warrantied. 

IMO your LBS and then Bianchi have not treated you properly; at least your LBS is trying to put that right. It's to your credit that you're being so equanimous on both counts. I hope you achieve a truly satisfying resolution, whatever you choose to do.


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## adjtogo

I've been working with Bianchi very closely all week, and I have nothing but good things to say about the way they are helping me resolve this issue. They have been amazing!!! 

Here are some choices I have:

1. Replace the frame only, as previously discussed. If I went this route, I'd need to replace the rear cassette and rear derailer wheel. Also need to get the spoke replaced and wheel trued. 

2. Infinito with Campy Athena 11 speed. 

3. Sempre with Campy Veloce 10 speed

4. Sempre with Ultegra Di2. Is this option worth the extra cost? Is the tecnnology too new? 

5. 2006 Bianchi S9 Matta Titanium framed bike. I don't know if it's frame only, or a complete build like the link I was sent shows. I'll find out on Monday. This is more than likely the route I may go, but haven't made up my mind for sure yet.

Also talked to the shop owner face-to-face yesterday and we are both ready to move forward to make things right and put our past differences behind us. I will work closely with him only at this point.


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## kbwh

Comments on 4. and 5.

4. Ultegra Di2 seems to be a more refined package than Dura-Ace Di2, which to me reeks of "Get it to the market NOW!". Ultegra Di2 is good. It's a pity that the electronic shifting specific Sempre frame only comes in black.

5. That frame is built by Lightspeed to Bianchi's specifications.


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## adjtogo

#5 is my first choice and #4 is my second choice. I'm hoping the S9 Matta is a complete bike as it shows on the link I was sent. Going Ti is what my gut feeling is telling me to do...


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## qatarbhoy

Agree with kbwh, a real shame the Sempre w/ Ultegra Di2 isn't in its proper colour. 

What are the prices they're offering these various builds for?


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## adjtogo

qatarbhoy said:


> Agree with kbwh, a real shame the Sempre w/ Ultegra Di2 isn't in its proper colour.
> 
> What are the prices they're offering these various builds for?


Prices are confidential, so I will not disclose that info.


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## qatarbhoy

Okay, then I will assume they're offering you a really good deal. :thumbsup:


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## davidalone

As someone who has worked in bikeshops and has intimate dealings with one ( my team is sponsored by a major bike shop in the region, who are the distributors for time, look, scott, mercxx , campy, and formerly bianchi, let me say something concernign this issue:

1) concerning warranty issues, it is RARELY the manufacturers fault. single frames , even high end ones, represent tiny fractions of their profit. If any bike manufacturer is going to suffer a significant decrease in profits because of giving away a few more frames a year, then there is something majorly wrong with their business. For example. how many frames does bianchi warranty a year worldwide? I don't know. maybe less than a hundred? obviously common sense tells you that larger companies, by virtue that they are manufacturing MORE bikes, have a larger chance of getting a bad egg being missed by quality control. any engineer ( and I'm an engineergin student, btw) worth his salt will tell you that if you have more than 5% of your production run being warranntied, something is wrong with either your design/ your quality control, or manufacturing process. given that martec makes frames for many more manufacturers OTHER than bianchi and have great experience in carbon, and I don't hear of very many infinitos failing, I don't think it is a problem on these 3 fronts.

2) what bike manufacturers DO NOT NEED is a bad name. the cycling community is small- and word gets around fast. bike manufacturers in general will try to take care of you. I do know that the US companies tend to be more generous as warranties go - they'll give whole new bikes on occasions, and they will give more benefit of doubt if something looks suspicious (check out blue competition cycles for an example of superlative customer service- they are new, so they bend over backwards to keep customers happy.) but that's normal because I'll wager that their production costs and runs are much lower and larger as compared to the european marques ( afetr all thats why you bought a bianchi and not a run of the mill specialized, isn't it.) 

3) when warranties fail- the buck is USUALLY with the LBS. I have worked in bike shops before- there are very many levels of communication. you enter the bike shop, report your claim. the shop employee goes tot he emchanic, the mechanic goes to the store manager, the manager reports back to the head office... all this usually takes a day, maybe two. then word has to get back to you. Along the way, ANY ONE of these people dropping the ball can cause a huge delay. Believe it or not, you are not their only customer. the head office guy has to deal with stocktaking, incoming stock, outgoing stock, and many more important things that have MUCH more at stake than your one single bike. the store manager has dozens of bikes being serviced/ new customers to sell to, people to fit, store displays to organise, incoming stock to inventory. the mechanic, well, you all know he has lots of stuff to do everyday. it gets worse if you're warrantying obscure parts that can be easily forgotten ( say a hub, a special carbon spoke, derailleur hangers etc.) while very many of them don't intend to FORGET your case, it can be very easy to. trust me, I have done so before. it is a fantastically organised and well managed LBS that can keep track of everything ( yes, contrary to belief, LBS managers or owners arent the most organised or best business people.) 

so I'll give you a hypothetical scenario. you drop your frame off at the store. store maanger says he'll look into it. contacts office/warehouse manager, who says he'll contact local bianchi distributor.maybe he forgets for a few hours because he has several other things to do first. does it the next day bianchi distributor calls bianchi USA. bianchi rep gets call. . bianchi rep says to take some pictures/ ship it over. word takes another day or two to reach the store manager. store manager is on his off day. store manager doesn't know anything about it until employee who was around on his off day remembers two days later.... you see how it's easy for things to snowball down this line.

what a GOOD shop will do for you is remember you- and fight your case, hard. in this scenario, I'm lucky because my sponsor shop ( whcih sponsors my team- not fully, but we get very steep discounts- at near cost, i believe ) has a certain degree of power, and is the direct distributor, so it cuts down on your lines of communication. this shop has bent over backwards fighting cases for customers buying look, time etc. and retains its core of high spendin clientiele because of good service. it doesn't hurt that the store manager used to be a army sergeant amjor ( talk about organisation.) and the store owner is down at the store every odd day or so, despite having other businesses to run. 

what you should do is also cultivate a good relationship with the LBS staff, if you can do so with high ranking guys in the hierachy, even better. be patient with them. they generally like that and will be willing to work with you in future. I broke a derailleur hanger last year, they took close to 6 weeks to get me a new one- I was annoyed, but I was patient until i told them: "look theres a big race coming and I really need my A bike- you are my bike sponsor after all. I can ride my beater bike for it, but I don't really want to. what can you do for me?" . the owner promised to look into it, and eventually took a hanger of a display frame ( which means he has useless stock in his shop) for me. he was entirely not obligated to- I could have gotten it online, but I was paitent with him and we have a good relationship. he did that again for me recently- no questions aksed, so he has another useless infinito in the shop he can't sell until he gets more hangers from bianchi.

if they are taking abit long, talk to the store manager, gently remind him . check back every few days. don't kick up a fuss, bike store employees hate that. be polite. working in a bikeshop might seem great, and its fun, but the pay is **** and its a dirty job. and bike owners are the most ANAL people on the planet. many of them are college kids who like to ride bikes trying to make ends meet. if you have a good relationship with them, chances are they will forget less often, and they will sometiems be able to do a little magic for you and on your bike. ( i get to wash my bike- for free- at premises. the mechanic regularly repacks my wheel bearings and adds some motor oil ( really great)- for free.) things will move faster with them too.

3) I am an engineering student, and I disagree that carbon that breaks is carbon that is designed poorly. the general public is not very well educated about carbon products. carbon fiber, by nature, is strong. but ONLY in certain directions- which is obviously the directions which bike makes arrange for best riding characteristics. in those 'other' directions, carbon fiber is very brittle. I could take a hamer and hit your frame with 'moderate force' at the appropriate point, and it'd break. carbon fiber is very much a disposable material- crash it, it's better off that you replace it. you don't see F1 cars being built for a long lifespan, do you? 

while it is true that CF technology today is very good ( so no, don't throw away your frame if you crash it, just inspect it- carefully) , the inherent risks are there becasue of the nature of its properties. it's something you'll have to deal with if you want to ride CF bikes. Every material has it's weakness, so its probably not fair to say alu is more long-lasting thatn CF. Ti, yes. probably not alu.


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## adjtogo

davidalone,

I appreciate your thorough explanation of the workings of a bike shop. I can completely understand that they are busy and there are people involved in the chain of people leading to reporting a warranty issue both on the way to and from the manufacturer. In this particular case, I was told one thing by one person in the LBS, then another by another in the LBS. Neither of what either told me added up. After six weeks, I took it into my own hands to report it to Bianchi and follow up directly with them. That's where results started to take place. I did talk to the LBS owner face-to-face this past weekend and he agreed, there were some mishandling, but we are both ready to move forward in a positive direction and make things right. That's the important part.

Today is decision day. I've been given five choices. My #1 choice is to get the 2006 S9 Matta Titanium if it is a complete bike. That frame was made to Bianchi specs by Litespeed, a very well know titanium frame manufacturer.

But I'm also considering either the Sempre Veloce or the Infinito Athena. My struggle comes withmixed emotions as both are CF frames, and I'm afraid of breaking another one. I've ridden CF framed bikes for six years, although different models by different manufacturers. The break could have been a once in a lifetime freak thing, but it certainly has made me skeptical of getting another one. On the other hand, I loved the smoothness and flexibility of CF. I love the idea of Campy on both the Sempre and Infinito. I love the way both bikes ride, although the Infinito can be ridden more comfortably on longer rides. I liked the Sempre because it is racier and faster and had more power with the BB30, but also made me a little more uncomfortable on longer rides.

With the titanium bike, there's risks too. I've ridden aluminum bikes before and know they're very harsh on your body with vibration and bumpiness. I've never ridden a Ti framed bike before. I'm only going by what I read and what I've been told about Ti bikes. I know CF is the material of choice now. Wonder why Ti bikes have been pretty much phased out? Some are still being made, but you can't readily find them in any LBS like CF frames. 

I just hope I make a good decision...


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## Chico2000

adjtogo said:


> I know CF is the material of choice now. Wonder why Ti bikes have been pretty much phased out? Some are still being made, but you can't readily find them in any LBS like CF frames.


Some have said that it's a matter of profit margin. I don't know any facts on that.

I will say, after reading this thread, that I can't see myself ever buying a CF bike. Spending $3k or $4k on a bike, have a stick or something be kicked up by a wheel and completely ruin the frame? That's crazy.

In addition, as someone who worked at an LBS for 4 summers and winter breaks all through college, bikes get knocked over, bunnyhopped by wrenchers in the back parking lot, tools dropped on them, etc all the time. Steel, Ti, alum, frames might get a scratch or ding, but on a CF bike now you have to worry about a crack and possible frame failure while you're doing 40mph on a descent? Yikes.


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## kbwh

adjtogo said:


> I've never ridden a Ti framed bike before. I'm only going by what I read and what I've been told about Ti bikes. I know CF is the material of choice now. Wonder why Ti bikes have been pretty much phased out? Some are still being made, but you can't readily find them in any LBS like CF frames.
> 
> I just hope I make a good decision...


The Matta has a more agressive head tube angle than the Sempre in most sizes, but that doesn't tell much without knowing the fork rake. 
S9 Matta Ti/Carbon Record | Bianchi USA
Sempre Veloce | Bianchi USA

My previous Bianchi (I love my Infinito, and we show the gravel no mercy...) was a '96 Ti Megatubo, the forefather of the S9 Matta. It was a wonderful ride.


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## adjtogo

Chico2000 said:


> Some have said that it's a matter of profit margin. I don't know any facts on that.
> 
> I will say, after reading this thread, that I can't see myself ever buying a CF bike. Spending $3k or $4k on a bike, have a stick or something be kicked up by a wheel and completely ruin the frame? That's crazy.
> 
> In addition, as someone who worked at an LBS for 4 summers and winter breaks all through college, bikes get knocked over, bunnyhopped by wrenchers in the back parking lot, tools dropped on them, etc all the time. Steel, Ti, alum, frames might get a scratch or ding, but on a CF bike now you have to worry about a crack and possible frame failure while you're doing 40mph on a descent? Yikes.


And that's what my gut feeling is telling me to do, stay away from CF framed bikes. Before I found out about Bianchi having the S9 Matta Ti framed bike, I had already contacted Lynskey and got a price on an R230, plus looked into Moots, Seven, and Form Cycles, all of which make Ti framed bikes too, and all of which are out of my price point with the exception of Lynskey, who were offering a 30% military discount. 

I'm sure hoping the S9 Matta is a complete bike. If not, I may still order frame only and use the existing Ultegra 6700 parts from the old Infinito to build it up. I can put up with a ding or a scratch, but I don't think I could put up with another crack.


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## davidalone

Chico2000 said:


> Some have said that it's a matter of profit margin. I don't know any facts on that.
> 
> I will say, after reading this thread, that I can't see myself ever buying a CF bike. Spending $3k or $4k on a bike, have a stick or something be kicked up by a wheel and completely ruin the frame? That's crazy.
> 
> In addition, as someone who worked at an LBS for 4 summers and winter breaks all through college, bikes get knocked over, bunnyhopped by wrenchers in the back parking lot, tools dropped on them, etc all the time. Steel, Ti, alum, frames might get a scratch or ding, but on a CF bike now you have to worry about a crack and possible frame failure while you're doing 40mph on a descent? Yikes.


Contrary to belief, titanium is not being phased out because titanium is rare. titanium, in fact, is one of the most common materials on earth. 
What makes titanum products expensive is that the are incredibly hard to manufacture and weld. titanium in it's raw form is very reactive, so getting it out of the environment is both difficult and costly. it needs to be treated in order to get what you have in front of you ( frames, aerospace parts etc.) that is a very stable compound and lasts forever. 

also, welding titanium is incredibly difficult because of this fact. you need an inert gas environment and you need to control the environment extremely well, or your welding will be poor. few companies have the facilities to work with titanium, and skilled titanium welders ( it can be automated, but to my knowledge titanium frames are mostly welded by hand) command premium wages because of their very specialized and hard to attain skill. 
All those weird and wonderful shapes you see on mordern bikes ( aero tubing, pinarello 'waves') are also much more difficult to acheive with metals like alu and Ti.

Hence, any work that needs to be done on a titanium frame is extremely troublesome. Titanium is also heavier than CF, whcih is why you probably don't see it at the protour races.

There are now facilities in the far east that can make titanium to a good standard, so we might see titanium come back in future if the costs can be kept down. 

I wouldn't say that you have to avoid CF bikes- you just have to be more careful with them. the key thing is not the force you apply, but rather the stress ( force over area.) tool drops causing damage, highly unlikely ( unless you drop a hammer from a few storeys up!- tools dont give you enough force.). bunny hops I wouldn't be worried either- you're distributing the force over the entire bike/wheels. crashes, of course those are a cause for concern, but like I said unless it hits something in a werid way, you are usually good to go. If you ride CF, make it a point to inspect your bike regularly, especially if you ahve crashed it before. catastrophic and sudden failure is not very common with damaged CF- if you inspect it regularly you can see it coming through cracks/microfractures that should be quite visible. after all, it is a fiber- raw CF is literally like cloth- and cloth doesnt fall apart suddenly. 

the damage from branches getting kicked up into the seatstays is apparently not uncommon- I've heard of it happening a few times. recently my infinitos rear dee hanger faield while I was riding, wrencing the chain in and smashign the rear d into the road, into my spokes and into the seatstays. was initially concerned that there would be damage- there is some chipping, but from what I can see so far I'm still good except for cosmetics. of course I'm monitoring it closely though. do I have a problem with the infinito desing? not really, I love the ride. I just think their Derailleur ahngers could be built stronger, and that taking wheels out from my infinito is a pain.


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## kbwh

davidalone said:


> <snip> taking wheels out from my infinito is a pain.


Running a compact, I find it easy with the chain on the big ring, but a #¤$! on the small. Up front I've filed the lawyer tabs off, of course.


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## Hanks

*adjtogo,*

whether you choose to ride TI, AL, CF or ST is up to you. But for now you need to have Bianchi replace your defective (yes defective) frame. Switching frame types now only opens the door for your LBS to cut any loss they may incur as the "middle-man". Your issue is not with them. Don't get all romantic about them, they already screwed you by dropping the ball and getting in the middle of the mud puddle you're in. I am assuming like other manufacturers, as original owner your frame has a lifetime waranty (ottherwise there is no point in pursuing this matter) If Bianchi does not step up to the plate and issue you a new frame and your LBS in an effort to keep you as a satisfied customer does not remove and replace your existing gruppo onto the new frame then I'd say "ba fungul Bianchi, and arrivederci LBS. If you are giving up on CF, sell the Bianchi (with the new frame) and change bikes.

What ever happend to "The customer is always right"

Hank :mad2:


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## stickboybike

@kbwh- I must correct you, the 90s Matta frames were the only ones that were outsourced by Litespeed. The 2007s were made in Treviglio, Italy.


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## kbwh

Thank you! I know they moved production to Litespeed when they changed the down tube from seamed "Megatubo" to tube, but do you know which year they brought it home again?


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## stickboybike

Phew, that's the million dollar question there...I think it's early 2000 they switched it back. The Ti demand was larger that what Italy could managed so that's when they called upon Litespeed.(90s)


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## adjtogo

It's finally over. Decision made. Fantastic choices given to me by Bianchi. So what did I decide? Well, let's start with what didn't work. The S9 Matta was my first choice, however, it didn't come with a seat post, and the diameter of the post size was not a normal size. It was going to be extremely difficult to find a seat post, so I scrapped that idea. Plus, the Matta had some minor scuff marks on it, and I'm very particular on appearance.

Sempre was eliminated too. Been there done that. Great bike. However, a little too aggressive for this 52 year old guy.

Then it came down to the Infinito Athena and Frame set. Hard decision. After talking to the LBS shop owner extensively over the past few days, I ultimately decided to just get a black/white Infinito frameset and replace the broken parts, and either sell it or keep it. Essentially, when it's put back together, it will be a brand new bike.

However, I was made an offer to buy a 2012 Giant Defy Advanced 1, complete with SRAM Force on it, and decided to pull the trigger. It will be here next week, and I'll be back in the saddle again!!


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## Hanks

*Well that sounds right*

Glad both Bianchi and your LBS stepped up to the plate.

Hank 

Great Looking Giant!

My brother Mitch has one and I just love it! I'm really happy for you!


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## qatarbhoy

Glad to hear it ADJ. That was quite a saga.


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## Kodi Crescent

So you bought an Infinito crash replacement frame set, and then bought the Giant? 

I'm a bit puzzled as to why you would have 2 bikes with so much overlap.


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## Chico2000

What happened to all that anti-CF banter? :mad2:
BTW, I test rode that Giant and really liked it.


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## adjtogo

Kodi Crescent said:


> So you bought an Infinito crash replacement frame set, and then bought the Giant?
> 
> I'm a bit puzzled as to why you would have 2 bikes with so much overlap.


The plan is to put the Infinito back together and sell it. I couldn't sell it broken. 

I plan on riding off into the sunset with the Giant.


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## adjtogo

Chico2000 said:


> What happened to all that anti-CF banter? :mad2:
> BTW, I test rode that Giant and really liked it.


After I started to look into Ti frames, it was going to be way out of my price range. 

Lynskey was the cheapest route, but by the time I would have bought everything to make a complete bike, it would have been over $4K, Vermoots and Seven were the most expensive. I'll have to put that on my "wish list".

I looked very carefully at the Giant CF frames. They seem to have a little more technology invested in their frames, not that Bianchi doesn't. I was made an offer I couldn't resist on the Giant, so I bought it.


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## lamazion

Wow, that Giant is a great looking bike ... congrats!


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## Kodi Crescent

I was going to get the Giant women's version (Avail) because of the more upright geometry. I seriously thought about it, but went for the Bianchi. Giant changed the geometry between 2011 and 2012. The 2011 was more upright. The Bianchi seemed to have better wheels and components for the price, so I felt it was a better value.

I had a Giant OCR which is the predecessor to the Defy Advanced. I liked it a lot, but it didn't fit. The Bianchi seems to fit, or is at least closer in fit. Plus it has more "character".


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## shokhead

Bianchi is only a 5 year warranty on carbon frames?


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## MerlinDS

shokhead said:


> Bianchi is only a 5 year warranty on carbon frames?


ONLY, wow be happy most Italian/ french companies only give 2 yrs, pin, col, look, etc, got to by American to get a good warranty


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## adjtogo

I don't know how long the warranty is, but my incident wasn't covered by their warranty. I've been told that Giant and Specialized will replace the frame, just about "no questions asked"...and almost immediately too.


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## shokhead

Well 5 is ok on non-carbon but I'd fell better with life on carbon.


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## spade2you

shokhead said:


> Well 5 is ok on non-carbon but I'd fell better with life on carbon.


I don't think anyone is likely to make that sort of an offer.


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## shokhead

Specialized, Trek, Cervelo, Giant come to mind.


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## spade2you

Are Treks good bikes?


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## shokhead

They are if your on one.. I know they are pretty good with warranties. Had one in the mid/late 90's. Cracked the frame, they offered same year bike but an ugly ass green. Told them no so they offered the next year model already out. Took it.


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## spade2you

I wish my Bianchi were as good as a Trek.


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## shokhead

I bet Bianchi wish they sold as many as Trek.


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## spade2you

It would seem to be nice, but nothing is without consequence. 

There's a certain appreciation of fine bikes by Bianchi users. Lance didn't ride one and that doesn't bother us in the least.


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## shokhead

spade2you said:


> It would seem to be nice, but nothing is without consequence.
> 
> There's a certain appreciation of fine bikes by Bianchi users. Lance didn't ride one and that doesn't bother us in the least.


That is true, very true.


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## B05

shokhead said:


> Bianchi is only a 5 year warranty on carbon frames?


BMC has 5 as well w/ crash replacement.

I believe that's fair.


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## shokhead

The crash replacement is an optional service from BMC Trading AG (hereinafter: BMC), as a result of which you shall have the one-time opportunity under the following preconditions to have your BMC 
frame replaced with a 40 % discount on the respective valid, official list price.

Guess you have to choose bewteen that or lifetime with another. BMC 40% is nice for a carbon crash.

.


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## adjtogo

I'm just glad Bianchi offered me a chance to get a brand new frame and fork for $600. That's a $1900 savings over buying a new one at retail price. The new black/white Infinito frame and fork should be here this week. The new Giant Defy Advanced 1 will be here Wednesday, and I'll pick that up on Thursday afternoon. Looks like I'll be back in the saddle by Friday.


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## Kodi Crescent

shokhead said:


> The crash replacement is an optional service from BMC Trading AG (hereinafter: BMC), as a result of which you shall have the one-time opportunity under the following preconditions to have your BMC
> frame replaced with a 40 % discount on the respective valid, official list price.
> 
> Guess you have to choose bewteen that or lifetime with another. BMC 40% is nice for a carbon crash.
> 
> .


That means you have to pay 60% to have it replaced. That's a lousy deal.


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## shokhead

Kodi Crescent said:


> That means you have to pay 60% to have it replaced. That's a lousy deal.


Well most don't offer anything for a crash so those would cost you 100%.


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## qatarbhoy

shokhead said:


> Well most don't offer anything for a crash so those would cost you 100%.


Especially after five years, with most manufacturers you're SOL long before then even if the frame goes up in flames because of a design defect.


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## shokhead

So I think if I have carbon lifetime would be a big deal. BMC would be a decision on only 5 years but a 40% for a crashed frame. After 5 years your sol but on lifetime your 8 year old frame gets replaced with a new frame or a newer frame.


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## stickboybike

You need to check the FULL details of a lifetime warranty on carbon frames. The Lifetime is for the original owner only, must have proof of purchase from an authorized dealer and the warranty is non-transferable. 

Most, not all, but most people who I'd consider to be avid riders/enthusiasts (ride 3+ days/wk on their road bike) seldom keep the same road frame/bike for more than 5 years; statistically starting with cyclist in 2005, here. They'll sell off their bike or frame for the next 'big thing' or upgrade, therefor, no warranty transfer. Observation from my bike shop days.


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## stickboybike

adjtogo- are you getting the Infinito frame, flipping it on line and rolling with the Giant?


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## shokhead

stickboybike said:


> You need to check the FULL details of a lifetime warranty on carbon frames. The Lifetime is for the original owner only, must have proof of purchase from an authorized dealer and the warranty is non-transferable.
> 
> Most, not all, but most people who I'd consider to be avid riders/enthusiasts (ride 3+ days/wk on their road bike) seldom keep the same road frame/bike for more than 5 years; statistically starting with cyclist in 2005, here. They'll sell off their bike or frame for the next 'big thing' or upgrade, therefor, no warranty transfer. Observation from my bike shop days.


I think all the warrantys I've read was just for frames, didn't single out material and the authorized dealer and the warranty is non-transferable is basic on all of them as far as I know. I guess if you don't keep it 5 years it doesn't matter. I dodn't want to spend 5k every 5 years on a bike so I keep then longer. Either way the warranty should be considered don't you think?


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## stickboybike

More on the frame, less on a bike. Maybe its the area I live in and the rate at which ppl upgrade their frames, which my described scenario applies to. The point I was trying to make is that buyers get hooked on the idea of a Lifetime Frame warranty and stop there....not knowing the full deets of said warranty. The point being, don't avoid buying your dream bike because you feel a 5 year warranty isn't up to snuff.


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## adjtogo

After much debate about to build the bike back up and keep it, ir sell it, I decided to just part ways with the frame and fork, so I just listed it on ebay. I'm sure what happened was a one time event, but I decided my best opportunity is the future with the Giant Defy Advanced 1 I purchased, and not with the Infinito. I have full confidence it will make someone a great bike. I was almost going to put it back together and sell it as a complete bike, but I think an Italian bike is complimented by Campy components, and I had Ultegra. If anyone's interested in bidding, here's the link:

2012 BIANCHI INFINITO BLACK C2C 55 CM FRAME ONLY, BRAND NEW, NEVER USED | eBay


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## illuminatironin

Hey ADJ,
Sorry to hear about your trouble. What city in FL do you live in? I am in the Orlando area and was thinking about a Bianchi but after hearing about this saga I may back off. I rode an Infinito at an LBS and it rode nice. But I was a bit put off by the carbon to AL lugs and just from sitting in the LBS the handlebar finish is cracking and the tires are dry rotting. I might be leaning now towards a Cronus or CLX 3.0. Let me know how the Giant treats you!


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## spade2you

One problem makes y'all not want a Bianchi? Weak. I've had many seasons on my three without any problems. I've even won a race or two.


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## adjtogo

I live in Pensacola, approximately 8 hours NW of Orlando. I lived in Orlando from '89-'92 when I was an Army Recruiter.

In my continuing saga with the bike situation, further developments have happened since a few weeks ago.

I paid Bianchi the crash replacement fee for a 2012 black/white Infinito frame. It arrived at my LBS yesterday. A few weeks ago, I was determined to sell the new frame and parts. I did order a Giant Defy Advanced 1 from the same LBS that sold me the Bianchi. Wouldn't you know, the bike came in this past Wednesday and the same day it came in, Giant had just issued a recall on all 2012Giant Defy and Avail bikes for having a defective front fork. Apparently, in the redesign, some forks were cracking and enough cyclists reported the problem which led Giant to recall them and issue notices to all new Defy and Avail owners to stop riding the bike to reduce the risk of injury. 

Then I decided to try my luck and ordered a 2011 Litespeed Archon 1 fully equipped with SRAM force from Road Bikes, Frames, Completes, Bicycle Parts and Bike Accessories from RealCyclist.com for $1900, regularly $4299. When I purchased it online, I was initially told it would take 1-2 days to build and ship. However, when I called them yesterday, they said they are 1-2 weeks behind as they sold a boat load of bikes at reduced prices. Now I'm debating whether I should keep or cancel the order.

In the meantime, I took all the parts and wheels that came off of the old Infinito into the LBS where my new Infinito frame was delivered to. The LBS owner looked at all the parts and it looks like it might cost no more than $100 for a rear derailer. The spoke that was bent no more than 1/16th of an inch can be straightened out and the wheel trued. So, after considering the Defy has been recalled with no date for new forks to be produced and shipped, and considering the Litepseed isn't going to be here (if I keep the order) for 2-3 more weeks, I decided to just have the new Infinito frame built back up. That is going to be my fastest way to getting back to riding. I've been off the bike since 9/23 and I just need to start pedaling again. It's killing me not to be out there pedaling!!


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## shokhead

Sounds like you bought a lot of bikes without riding them?


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## adjtogo

Bought two without riding them. Didn't receive either of them. I didn't see any other options that would put me back on a bike immediately, so that's why I went ahead and decided to get the new Infinito built back up. Maybe what happened before was just a feak accident and will never happen again.


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## stickboybike

illuminatironin said:


> Hey ADJ,
> Sorry to hear about your trouble. What city in FL do you live in? I am in the Orlando area and was thinking about a Bianchi but after hearing about this saga I may back off. I rode an Infinito at an LBS and it rode nice. But I was a bit put off by the carbon to AL lugs and just from sitting in the LBS the handlebar finish is cracking and the tires are dry rotting. I might be leaning now towards a Cronus or CLX 3.0. Let me know how the Giant treats you!


Carbon to AL lugs, are you referring to the bond at the seat/chain stays or the entire seat stay was carbon?


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## adjtogo

The seatstay cracked about half way down the tube, on the underside of the stay.


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## adjtogo

In my continuing saga of my bike dilemma, I ended up canceling the order for the Litespeed Archon C1. RC had a back log of 2-3 weeks before the bike could be built. Shipping was an additional 7-10 days. Then I started to read posts where the derailer hanger was defective on this bike anyway and some cyclists were paying $40-$60 for a new one.

My black/white Infinito frame came in Friday. On Saturday, I brought all the parts of my old Infinito into the LBS and had a long discussion with the LBS owner. After our talk, I decided to just put everything on the new frame and wait to make any future purchases. This will be the fastest way to get back to riding for now. I'll be going bright and early Tuesday morning for a fitting and pick it up. Hopefully, my dilemma that's been going on since 9/23 will be over.

By the way, the black/white Infinito frame looks awesome!! I like it much better than the traditional celeste/white. I think certain colors appeal to certain people. The black is two-tone. Some of the frame is painted glossy black and some is unpainted carbon-fiber weave in flat black. There are touches of celeste, which accent the bike beautifully.

I chose to put black Lizard Skin bar tape on the bike. I considered celeste, and I think that would have been an awesome accent, but I went with the stealth look instead. I can always change it out at a later date if I want to. 

Needed to buy a new rear derailer and new chain as the other one on the old Infinito bent. The rear wheel needs to have a spoke straightened out and the wheel trued, and that's it. It was the cheapest and fastest route to getting back to riding.


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## Kodi Crescent

Have you considered getting a mountain bike to supplement your biking needs?


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## adjtogo

I'm not into mountain biking. I'm strictly on-road only. I do have a Giant Cypress DX I use when my wife and I go to the beach and ride up and down the Avenidas. I could never ride on rough terrain. I leave that to the younger and braver generation.


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## qatarbhoy

> _By the way, the black/white Infinito frame looks awesome!! I like it much better than the traditional celeste/white._


You'll be hearing from kbwh shortly... 

I rode my mountain bike for a month while waiting for my replacement frame. Otherwise I would've gone absolutely nuts. I don't do anything crazy on it but I enjoy mixing things up a little between tarmac and the desert.


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## Hanks

*Bianchi's Fault?*



adjtogo said:


> Needed to buy a new rear derailer and new chain as the other one on the old Infinito bent. The rear wheel needs to have a spoke straightened out and the wheel trued, and that's it. It was the cheapest and fastest route to getting back to riding.





adjtogo said:


> Maybe what happened before was just a feak accident and will never happen again.


In your initial report, you never told us about the “bent derailleur”…maybe it was a _“freak” _accident.:aureola: 

Hank


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## kbwh

qatarbhoy said:


> You'll be hearing from kbwh shortly...


Thy Bianchi shall be Celeste.

Done.


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## spade2you

kbwh said:


> Thy Bianchi shall be Celeste.
> 
> Done.












You're telling me that you would kick this bike out of bed?


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## kbwh

*'fraid so.*

I'd tell her to leave her wheels, though. :thumbsup:


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## spade2you

Better?


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## kbwh

The more the merrier.


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## bottecchia_eja

kbwh said:


> Thy Bianchi shall be Celeste.
> 
> Done.


WOW I have been away for a while. I missed the best parts of ADJ's Infinito saga. 

Glad to see that after all the twists and turns in the story you ended up with a Bianchi Infinito. Sounds like the tale of the prodigal son.

Benvenuto amico!

But a black and white Bianchi?

Somewhere in Milan, Edoardo Bianchi is spinning in his grave!


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## adjtogo

bottecchia_eja said:


> WOW I have been away for a while. I missed the best parts of ADJ's Infinito saga.
> 
> Glad to see that after all the twists and turns in the story you ended up with a Bianchi Infinito. Sounds like the tale of the prodigal son.
> 
> Benvenuto amico!
> 
> But a black and white Bianchi?
> 
> Somewhere in Milan, Edoardo Bianchi is spinning in his grave!


I know celeste is a Bianchi national color...but I'm not in Italy...I'm in the USA where only other cyclists may know of Bianchi's celeste color. If I were a woman, I wouldn't mind a celeste and white bike. However, I am a man with a lot of American Testosterone running through my blood. Batman was my favorite comic book icon. He wears black. KISS is my all time favorite rock band. They wear black and white make up. Therefore, a black and white bike fit more into my color scheme than celeste and white. 

I sold the original Selle Italia celeste/white saddle and put a black/white Selle Italia saddle on the bike too.

Besides, I like the way Bianchi combined matte black carbon with gloss black on the frame with just a hint of celeste. That's more my manly style. Next step, I'm going to the print shop and having them print a "KISS Army" label and a "Batman" logo and am putting it on the bike.


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## bottecchia_eja

adjtogo said:


> I know celeste is a Bianchi national color...but I'm not in Italy...I'm in the USA where only other cyclists may know of Bianchi's celeste color..


Bianchi's colors have nothing to do with nationality or place of origin. Celeste green is Bianchi's official color, regardless of where you live or where you may come from. It is a matter of tradition. Whether you wish to follow tradiiton or not, that is simply a matter of aesthetics not of national origin.




adjtogo said:


> If I were a woman, I wouldn't mind a celeste and white bike. However, I am a man with a lot of American Testosterone running through my blood. ..


If your masculinity is defined by the color of your bike, you may some issues. 

I am a man and my testosterone, American or otherwise, does not come from the color of my bikes...it comes from my cojones-thank you very much.

Incidentally, I happen to like black. My Benz convertible is triple-black; black top, black exteriors and black interiors. But as far as my Bianchi is concerned, Celeste green is the onlyyyyyyyyy way I roll. :thumbsup:










Enjoy your new Infinito. You did well to pass over the Ti bike. I used to own a Litespeed Ti bike and both my Bottecchia (with Columbus SLX) and my Infinito have far livelier and more responsive frames. To me, Ti felt kinda dead. 

And before a flame war starts, that is just my experience lots of people like Ti frames.


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## qatarbhoy

Bottecchia is of course correct. A Bianchi is a great bike in any colour, but real men ride celeste (or, say, hot pink) bicycles and are _manlier_ for it. My own road bike is baby blue and orange. 

Although I love my BMC, if (when) I get another high-end bike to complement my RoadMachine, a Bianchi will be at the top of my list, and it will be celeste.


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## T K

Wow, what a read. The OP was beating the panic button like a bongo drum. I'm thinking the whole read, slow down take a breath, let it play out. After all that he's back on an Infinito. Priceless.


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## adjtogo

I respect your opinion and choice of colors, especially the kickin' Mercedes!!! Wish I had one of those!! Great looking ride, man!!


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## Lolamunky

Just wanted to comment after reading this whole thread as one long story.....I get my Bianchi's from Bike Attack in Santa Monica CA and have had NO problems with either the shop or Bianchi....in fact as a loyal customer I have got some very nice discounts which helped me buy my new 2012 OLTRE with Di2 Ultegra.

I even got a chance to meet and speak with the President of Bianchi USA and I can safely say that Bianchi as a company are interested in making every customer feel like they are important and that their happiness is paramount. If you are experiencing anything but the best from your Bianchi or the your LBS that sold it to you I promise its because you are speaking to the wrong people or the wrong shop.

As far as Infinito's go I had one for 2 years and put about 2-3K miles on it before selling it to make room for my Oltre. Never had one single problem with the bike or the components. I also have a 08 Via Nirone with about 6K miles on it and I bought it used with a few K on it to start with....same thing...no problems. 

All bikes are vulnerable to random problems and yes all CF frames can crack with some bad luck. When you ride carbon you just need to be that much more aware of the roads your traveling and look for foreign objects....this is not a bianchi thing, this is a CF cycling thing.

Glad to read everything worked out in the end


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## adjtogo

I just went to my LBS the other day and a guy was in there who had a broken clavicle and stitches on his face. I asked what happened. He told me he was riding his 11 year old Trek carbon frame and it broke in half while he was riding. He had no advanced warning of anything failing. It just happened. He had the bike with him. He was having the LBS remove the components from the broken frame and put them on a Cannondale frame. He plans on continuing riding after he heals. He's lucky though. His clavicle wasn't displaced and was just cracked in half. It could have been much worse. 

Yes, carbon frames can crack no matter how old or new they are, and no matter who manufactures them. My biggest complaint was how it was handled initially, the length of time, and outcome in the end. Three months is just way too long. It shouldn't have taken any longer than a few weeks from start until finish. As you've read through my posts, things happened on every end of the spectrum which caused the delays. In the end, I'm just glad it was resolved. Everyone is happy now. I've been riding my 2012 replacement Infinito without any complaints or problems. I'm just thankful that it is resolved and I'm back to riding.


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## Lolamunky

That story sounds terrible, but it is important to remember that carbon fiber has come a long way in 11 years. Today's CF is a whole new animal and should be a little better at avoiding catastrophic failure like that. Like your chainstay....it broke, but it didnt snap in half.....


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## Tantivious Todd

qatarbhoy said:


> Bottecchia is of course correct. A Bianchi is a great bike in any colour, but real men ride celeste (or, say, hot pink) bicycles and are _manlier_ for it. My own road bike is baby blue and orange.
> 
> Although I love my BMC, if (when) I get another high-end bike to complement my RoadMachine, a Bianchi will be at the top of my list, and it will be celeste.


Ah, yes, but BMC said that the paint scheme for that bike was inspired by this ...










An icon in motorsports and hardly feminine. Also, being a motorsports fan, your BMC is quite possibly the best looking frame I have ever seen. Wish I had one and the disks in my neck would let me ride it. As it is, I will make do with my Celeste Infinito.


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## cda 455

kbwh said:


> if you go for Campagnolo, go no lower than Chorus, at least for the shifters: You want the Ultrashift 3 down 5 up ergonomics. Ultrashift is what really makes Campagnolo ergonomics superior to SRAM and Shimano.
> For the rest of the group Athena will do, but if you want to improve one more get the Chorus Ultratorque crank for serviceability.
> Lots of good deals on Campagnolo wheels now. The Zonda is a particularly good buy.



Good Campy tips; thanks for sharing :thumbsup: !


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## cda 455

Tantivious Todd said:


> Ah, yes, but BMC said that the paint scheme for that bike was inspired by this ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An icon in motorsports and hardly feminine. Also, being a motorsports fan, your BMC is quite possibly the best looking frame I have ever seen. Wish I had one and the disks in my neck would let me ride it. As it is, I will make do with my Celeste Infinito.


Ford GT40 1969 winner of the _24 Heures du Mans_.

GT40 1075, the winningest GT40 chassis.

Driven by Jacky Ickx and Jackie Oliver


Major, major shwing :arf:  !!


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## adjtogo

I think everyone has a personal preference for color, tradition or not. In America, I bet the majority of men have a blue, red, black, or white bikes, or a combination of those colors. I know and understand Bianchi's traditional color, and I respect them and anyone who chooses to ride a celeste colored bike. After all, I did for just over a year. But, after the crack, I decided to make the personal choice and went with black for the reasons stated. Oh yeah, besides KISS and Batman wearing black, Johnny Cash was known as "The Man in Black". Darth Vader wore black too. Besides, black, psychologically, brings out the dark side, which makes one faster, doesn't it? I swear, I'm at least 2 mph faster on the black Infinito than the celeste one!!


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## qatarbhoy

Tantivious Todd said:


> Ah, yes, but BMC said that the paint scheme for that bike was inspired by this ... An icon in motorsports and hardly feminine. Also, being a motorsports fan, your BMC is quite possibly the best looking frame I have ever seen. Wish I had one and the disks in my neck would let me ride it. As it is, I will make do with my Celeste Infinito.


Oh absolutely - as a fellow motorsports fan the Gulf-inspiration made it an instant hit for me, and we clearly agree on just how gorgeous the combination is. It's a classic livery. 

On the other hand, you'll note that part of what makes the GT40 so appealing is the combination of masculine attributes (raw power, speed, aggression) and feminine ones (baby blue, curves, elegance)... Now, if you'll excuse me, I need a lie-down.


----------

