# Take a closer look at Cavendish today...



## ColoColo (Jun 1, 2009)

Take a closer look at how Farrar won today and what really happened. Cavendish goes on the sprint but stays next to Goss, notice that he keeps looking to the left... Well to his left was Goss. Goss looks at Cav, shakes head like saying "I'm done, I tried but I can't", Cav goes all out but goes a little too late to catch Farrar. And Farrar wins.

Now, I'm happy for him to have won the final stage, (I just bought an F5) but I'd prefer if he'd won not because Cavendish wanted to give a chance to his teammate to win the stage as a way to say "thanks for all the effort" but for him to actually beat Cavendish. I just hate his "cockiness".


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## Ray_from_SA (Jun 15, 2005)

Apparently, Cav had a broken spoke on his rear wheel.

The real thing to do would be to take a closer look at Cav's back wheel to see if there is a broken spoke.


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## tethernaut (Dec 11, 2008)

According to a story on Cycling News, Cavendish is saying that he didn't win the sprint because he'd broken a spoke. And he's whining that Farrar hasn't declared to the media "I only won because of Cav's broken spoke."


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## mtberv (Sep 29, 2005)

Farrar has nothing on Cavendish. Sorry to spoil your party.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Wait, I'm mixed up.

Was Cavendish 1st loser because Goss was too slow or because he(Cav) had a broken spoke?


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Cav is whining again. What else is new.


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## culdeus (May 5, 2005)

I think cav was trying to leadout knowing his spoke was gone. Just none of his leadout men had enough to beat farrar even with cav as a leadout.


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

Cav didn't win because of that, Tyler didn't win the other day because of this. Five years from now, that big pretty trophy will be sitting on Tyler's mantle. That's what matters.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

He broke a spoke and had the rim hitting the pads. He said he was doing 800 watts the last 400m because he knew he needed top four placing to win the points. Bad luck. Look at the sprints Cav won. Tyler isn't even in the same class of sprinting when Cav is on. How many stages did he beat Cav in at Le Tour? I think Cav was angy with Farrars statement:



> “Even after Mark Cavendish’s two stage wins, I’ve kept confidence in my capacities of beating him by the end of the Vuelta. That’s part of sprinting, to always believe in yourself,” Farrar said


Making it sound like he beat him on skill, not a mechanical.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

I watched the Univ Sports video again. After they cross the line Cav freewheels for a bit. Doesn't look like he is experiencing any brake rub problems.

A great sprint win for Farrar.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Not a given that there will be brake rub when freewheeling. 800 W (Boy says so...) does stress a rear wheel ever so slightly.


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## estone2 (Sep 25, 2005)

kbwh said:


> 800 W (Boy says so...)


800w for 400m isn't at all unrealistic or bizarre for him to climb. Hell, I can do that and I'm an awful Cat3 sprinter.


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## ColoColo (Jun 1, 2009)

*I didn't know I had one.*

Thanks for the info.


mtberv said:


> Farrar has nothing on Cavendish. Sorry to spoil your party.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

mtberv said:


> Farrar has nothing on Cavendish. Sorry to spoil your party.


Except class, tact and maturity.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

spookyload said:


> He broke a spoke and had the rim hitting the pads. He said he was doing 800 watts the last 400m because he knew he needed top four placing to win the points. Bad luck. Look at the sprints Cav won. Tyler isn't even in the same class of sprinting when Cav is on. How many stages did he beat Cav in at Le Tour? I think Cav was angy with Farrars statement:
> 
> 
> 
> Making it sound like he beat him on skill, not a mechanical.


Shall we all announce any and all mechanicals we have at the end of each race and declare that with out them so so and so would not have won. Actually Tyler has beat Cav heads up a couple of times so hes in the same class just Cav in usually the faster one. Cav is not in the same class as Tyler as far as class.


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## Doolab (Feb 13, 2008)

I watched the video again after reading this thread. It seems Cavendish was trying to give one to Goss, and Tyler did out sprint him at the line. 

And yes, the bike did coast effortlessly after he crossed the line like the other riders around him, so that does send doubt on the brake rub thing.

As for the broken spoke bit, it may just be a story to avoid getting in trouble with his team manager when he's asked how he missed out on such an easy win. Besides, how hard is it to dismount the bike and then kick one of his own spokes to bend or break one?

Anyway, Farrar deserved this win even if it did not look too convincing as a sprint victory. Though he definitely showed more class than Cavendish's nauseating crass...


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Well, "good" to see Cav is back to normal.  

Mechanicals happen. You can't fault a competitor for your mechanical that they didn't cause. He should consider himself lucky that he placed well enough to keep the green jersey as anything lower than 5th would have given it to Tyler. 

As for Tyler. I'm pretty sure he was not aware of Cav's wheel problems. He simply did his job and got to the line first. You don't get more points for how much you beat someone in the sprint.


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## ColoColo (Jun 1, 2009)

*Thank you!*

See, everybody else seemed to have lost the whole point. Regardless of a broken spoke (which to me, seems like the perfect excuse to his sponsors) He took off when Goss looked at him. 



Doolab said:


> I watched the video again after reading this thread. It seems Cavendish was trying to give one to Goss, and Tyler did out sprint him at the line.
> 
> And yes, the bike did coast effortlessly after he crossed the line like the other riders around him, so that does send doubt on the brake rub thing.
> 
> ...


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

The bigger problem with Tyler during the Vuelta was his position entering the sprint. Over and over the guy is 5-10 spots back entering the final 500m. And its not just this Vuelta. Without Julian Dean towing his ass, Farrar can't seem to hold his spot when its go time.


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## Uprwstsdr (Jul 17, 2002)

kbiker3111 said:


> The bigger problem with Tyler during the Vuelta was his position entering the sprint. Over and over the guy is 5-10 spots back entering the final 500m. And its not just this Vuelta. Without Julian Dean towing his ass, Farrar can't seem to hold his spot when its go time.


So, what you are really saying is that it is extremely difficult to position one self properly for a sprint and a good lead out man is essential; a very difficult task that few can do with skill of Julian Dean.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Bottom Lines:

Cav had already won Green and wanted to give Goss the stage. 
After Cav, Farrar is the next best sprinter in the Peleton, so he is going to beat him every now and again.


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## chuckice (Aug 25, 2004)

This definitely should be debated for many more pages.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

0_o



Uprwstsdr said:


> it is extremely difficult to position one self properly for a sprint


Yes



> a good lead out man is essential; a very difficult task that few can do with skill of Julian Dean


No

Many sprinters have the skill to maintain position in a sprint. Theres more to being a sprinter than top speed. A lot of skill is involved. Farrar gets bumped all over the place and has to make up for it with top end speed.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Cavendish threads are my new favorites.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

albert owen said:


> Bottom Lines:
> 
> Cav had already won Green and wanted to give Goss the stage.
> After Cav, Farrar is the next best sprinter in the Peleton, so he is going to beat him every now and again.


I know he wanted to give Goss a stage, but not sure if he should do that or if the team had given him the green light on that. Definitely easier said than done given Tyler's points. I'm not saying it could not have been done, but anything less than 5th place would have given Tyler the points jersey.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Coolhand said:


> Cavendish threads are my new favorites.


I thought the banhammer had to be swung to make it a favorite?

Bottom line: Cav was beaten. Doesn't matter why, he WAS beaten.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

...wondering if Cav's wheel sponsor will now deduct one from their "races won" total... 

... and SRAM too, since if he was on Campy he could've opened the brake QR without removing his hands from the bars.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Creakyknees said:
 

> ... and SRAM too, since if he was on Campy he could've opened the brake QR without removing his hands from the bars.


LOL, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that!!


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## bruce_wayne (Apr 30, 2010)

I thought final sprint day into Madrid (or Paris) was always the key race sprinters are angling to win; one last chance to put your name, team and sponsor up front in the media spotlight. If Cav/HTC lost the sprint because Cav wanted to give Goss a shot at a victory, seems like questionable judgement IMHO. If he had a mechanical, well dems the breaks...have a late-nite drink with Andy Schlek.

Cav did win the green so in the end he achieved his ultimate goal; that's prolly what he was really concerned about. Hey, he proved once again he's the best so it's hard to fault him.


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## Ray_from_SA (Jun 15, 2005)

Creakyknees said:


> ...wondering if Cav's wheel sponsor will now deduct one from their "races won" total...
> 
> ... and *Shimano* too, since if he was on Campy he could've opened the brake QR without removing his hands from the bars.


FIFY

Cav is running Shimano Dura Ace.


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

bruce_wayne said:


> I thought final sprint day into Madrid (or Paris) was always the key race sprinters are angling to win; one last chance to put your name, team and sponsor up front in the media spotlight. If Cav/HTC lost the sprint because Cav wanted to give Goss a shot at a victory, seems like questionable judgement IMHO. If he had a mechanical, well dems the breaks...*have a late-nite drink with Andy Schlek*.
> 
> Cav did win the green so in the end he achieved his ultimate goal; that's prolly what he was really concerned about. Hey, he proved once again he's the best so it's hard to fault him.


Now thats funny.


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## estone2 (Sep 25, 2005)

robdamanii said:


> I thought the banhammer had to be swung to make it a favorite?
> 
> Bottom line: Cav was beaten. Doesn't matter why, he WAS beaten.


The banhammer's getting warmed up


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## nayr497 (Nov 8, 2008)

I'm happy for Farrar; that's a nice win.

I'm happy to see Cavendish win some sprints in the race and come out with the green. After watching TdF and the Vuelta it seems pretty obvious to me that this year Cavendish is a stronger sprinter (or/+ has a better team working for him) than Farrar.

I like both of them. I really don't understand all the anger towards Cavendish. Is it because he isn't American? A lot of you don't like him because he's cocky...hmm, soccer strikers, gunners in hockey, scorers in basketball...they are all generally a bit cocky.

I like watching him race and it's great to watch him sprint. I think it's pretty tough to judge a pro athlete on what they say 120 seconds after the game/sprint is over. What might you say if you were 24 years old, just won a sprint in the world's biggest bike race, and knew a lot of people liked to badmouth you?

I might come off as a bit arrogant too

Does anyone have a link to the final 10km of this stage? I missed it.


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## nayr497 (Nov 8, 2008)

And is it just me or does Farrar's sprint form look odd and quite un-aerodynamic? He sits up kind of straight and his arm stick way out.

In comparison, lil' Cav is crouched down very tight with his nose nearly on his bars. It's a wonder Farrar can beat him at all.

I do think Farrar is considerably taller and bigger than Cav though.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

I'm reading Cav's book right now, and for the last two weeks I've just been unable to finish it. I didn't really like the guy before, and nothing I've read makes me think any different of him. I was really hoping there was something there that would change my mind. 

Fast racer/huge whiner.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

jd3 said:


> Cav didn't win because of that, Tyler didn't win the other day because of this. Five years from now, that big pretty trophy will be sitting on Tyler's mantle. That's what matters.


Which trophy is that?
Let's not forget that Tyler can win a stage or two either very early or very late in the season, he has yet to win a stage when it matters (TdF, or one of the monuments). Maybe Tyler will deliver in World Champs, but as of now Cav has 15 TdF stage wins and a Milan-San Remo win, to Tyler's ZERO. And Cavendish is younger than Tyler too. Sorry, but it seems somewhat unlikely to me that "five years from now" Tyler will be remembered as the "trophy" winner compared to Cav. Unless you consider the second place trophy is "big and pretty".


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

55x11 said:


> Which trophy is that?
> Let's not forget that Tyler can win a stage or two either very early or very late in the season, he has yet to win a stage when it matters (TdF, or one of the monuments). Maybe Tyler will deliver in World Champs, but as of now Cav has 15 TdF stage wins and a Milan-San Remo win, to Tyler's ZERO. And Cavendish is younger than Tyler too. Sorry, but it seems somewhat unlikely to me that "five years from now" Tyler will be remembered as the "trophy" winner compared to Cav. Unless you consider the second place trophy is "big and pretty".


If he has so many wins, why give a rat's ass about this one?


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## HeluvaSkier (Sep 11, 2007)

nayr497 said:


> And is it just me or does Farrar's sprint form look odd and quite un-aerodynamic? He sits up kind of straight and his arm stick way out.
> 
> In comparison, lil' Cav is crouched down very tight with his nose nearly on his bars. It's a wonder Farrar can beat him at all.
> 
> I do think Farrar is considerably taller and bigger than Cav though.


Yeah, Tyler is 6' 1" I think. He's a big guy. Cavendish is a small guy (5' 6" or 5' 7" maybe?). I do agree though, that there is a huge difference between the two riders in terms of their position and movement on the bike while sprinting. Cav is always low, head down, and using his legs and body to power his sprint. Farrar (and most others) seems to be slightly more upright (head up at least), and using primarily his legs with less movement of his upper body in comparison to Cav.


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## HeluvaSkier (Sep 11, 2007)

IMO, in most interviews with Tyler after he loses races to Cav or whoever else - he is the one that sounds like a whiner... Maybe it is just because he has a whiny sounding voice, but I keep thinking back to the head-butt stage of the Tour where I thought he was going to break down crying and screaming "that's not fair!!!" He's one of the most hyped riders in the peloton that continually fails to deliver on the hype. Head-to-head Cav versus Farrar when both are in top form I'd put my money on Cav every time. Cav has a passion for winning and the ability to dig deep to do it that I have never seen from Tyler.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

HeluvaSkier said:


> IMO, in most interviews with Tyler after he loses races to Cav or whoever else - he is the one that sounds like a whiner... Maybe it is just because he has a whiny sounding voice, but I keep thinking back to the head-butt stage of the Tour where I thought he was going to break down crying and screaming "that's not fair!!!" He's one of the most hyped riders in the peloton that continually fails to deliver on the hype. Head-to-head Cav versus Farrar when both are in top form I'd put my money on Cav every time. Cav has a passion for winning and the ability to dig deep to do it that I have never seen from Tyler.


Not only was that move unfair, it was unsafe. The judges agreed. Actually, any racer who had ever been in a bunch sprint seemed to agree, too.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

My beef with Tyler is the non-stop commercials for Transitions. Enough!


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

HeluvaSkier said:


> Cav has a passion for whining and the ability to dig deep to do it .


There fixed it for you


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## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

I honestly think there is some correlation between the gene that controls the amount of fast twitch muscles you have and the gene that determines how much you whine. I see it in all sprinters, from cat 5 to Pro-tour, from 100m track runners to 50m swimmers.


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## Swish (Jul 31, 2004)

I believe it's often a part of the 'winner's mentality': the arrogance, the idea that they can't possibly fail except due to outside circumstances, this leads to making excuses and whining.

To me it seemed Cav picked to high a gear to really spin up.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

spookyload said:


> My beef with Tyler is the non-stop commercials for Transitions. Enough!


They should be happy to have sponsors. A few teams lack them and are going under for next year or their future is up in the air.


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## iktome (Aug 29, 2003)

HeluvaSkier said:


> ...He's one of the most hyped riders in the peloton that continually fails to deliver on the hype....


What does this mean? What would have have to do to live up to the "hype?" He wins grand tour stages, he wins classics, he almost won the points jersey in the Vuelta.

Being arguably the second best sprinter in the world, with the capacity to beat the "best" sprinter in the world on occasion, isn't sufficient? What kind of hype are you talking about? Last I checked, Cav' was the "fastest in the world." Maybe _he's_ the one who is failing to deliver on the hype. He actually loses to Farrar, head-to-head, on occasion. And we all know that Farrar sucks. So Cav' must suck too.

Some people around here seem to think that to be any good, you have to win every single race you enter.


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