# Anyone else think mapmyride is awful?



## takl23 (Jul 22, 2007)

My 15 mile easy spin turned into a 35 mile-ride-for-my-life-in-the-dark sprint home. I mapped the ride, followed the directions and got hopelessly lost and almost got hit by a car. I'm less than thrilled right now.

Tim


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## wetpaint (Oct 12, 2008)

If you click at intersections, the route sheet will give you bad directions, you have to click far enough away from them so that the software knows you don't intend to turn there, and always double check the cue sheet before leaving.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

takl23 said:


> My 15 mile easy spin turned into a 35 mile-ride-for-my-life-in-the-dark sprint home. I mapped the ride, followed the directions and got hopelessly lost and almost got hit by a car. I'm less than thrilled right now.
> 
> Tim




so you getting lost and almost getting hit by a car is the program's fault???


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## takl23 (Jul 22, 2007)

FatTireFred said:


> so you getting lost and almost getting hit by a car is the program's fault???


If I hadn't gotten lost due to the program, I wouldn't have been on the road I was on hence I wouldn't have had a near collision.


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## kfurrow (May 1, 2004)

takl23 said:


> My 15 mile easy spin turned into a 35 mile-ride-for-my-life-in-the-dark sprint home. I mapped the ride, followed the directions and got hopelessly lost and almost got hit by a car. I'm less than thrilled right now.
> 
> Tim


Carry a map with you (and not just turn-by-turn directions) if you're venturing into a new area. You never know when you'll need to get innovative with a route to get around a closed road or whatever.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

yes, I think mapmyride is awful

slow, buggy, poor interface, too many ads even though I pay $5/month. 

but... it's better than the competition.


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## paulrad9 (Sep 25, 2005)

never mind


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

MapMyRide has issues. The cue sheet is often wrong, telling you to take a left, say, when you really are supposed to take a right. 

You *always* have to review/edit the cue sheet for errors, and bring a 'real' map too. But it is nice for things like knowing the exact distance, and elevation changes (though it won't do a good job of pointing out the short, steep sections, since it slices up the route into a fairly limited number of sections and averages those. One of the rides I mapped has a short, steep 19% section that MMR shows as a 3%, since it gets averaged in with a lot of shallow stuff around it. Kinda lame).

It's an interesting program but definitely has its limits, is pretty buggy, and the ads are annoying as hell. Did I miss anything?
.


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## mondayC (May 22, 2008)

MMR is terrible at elevation change % on rides over 1 mile.
Also, I freaking hate the ads right on the corner of the map. As soon as you move them out of screen, a new one pops up! Arrgh!


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## raymond7204 (Sep 22, 2008)

I have limited experience with MapMyRide...specifically since the battery has always died before my ride is finished. Is there a way to conserve battery power when using this program?


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## Asherc (Feb 16, 2009)

I much prefer ridewithgps.com. Much better than MapMyRide, and without the goddamn ads right on the maps.


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## 180 (Jan 10, 2009)

I think you gotta be careful with any of the mapping systems out there. Mapquest led me on countless adventures. If you can, drive the route before you head out and try to ride with someone, especially if heading into unfamiliar territory. You never know when there may be construction or some interference withthe route. It was a bold attempt, I admire your drive to find new routes all on yer own.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

Map my ride is fine for uploading gps rides (.gpx files) to take a look at your route and house it. But their algorythm or whatever is totally wrong on elevation gains.

They admitted this during their le Tour contest. Basically, a bunch of contestants weren't getting credit for elevation gains. so, the contest skewed heavily to people in mountainous regions. As the program would record elevation gains over long stretches. But it wouldn't record gains over shorter hills. 

Total suckage. Part of the contest was to try and match that day's particular stage in le Tour. 

Example: I could ride around the hills in SW Mizzurah and gain 1600 or more feet, but MMR would only record around 500 or so feet of gain.


Their solution was for those of us not living near mountains, "go find some longer hills to ride. good luck" LOL. priceless.

I like to upload my rides to google earth, now.


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## HebrewHammer (Oct 13, 2008)

I don't feel like I can bash it too much because it is free. There are some interesting tools on it. I guess. All in all its a piece of crap.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

Other than for poaching someone else's ride, MMR is completely worthless. Even doing that, I usually snag a map and rebuild it in something useful, like bikeroutetoaster.


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## brentley (Jul 20, 2008)

I have never really gotten MMR to properly work on any of my 4 computers with a variety of browers, so whenever I get the give us money email I just delete it. 

Great concept just super poor execution. And I would speculate that my issues with map my ride have to do with my anti-advertisting software.


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## murbike (Jan 22, 2004)

I only use MMR to record the rides I've gone on, or rides I plan to take.

Who created your route?
Did you check it out before you rode it so that you have a general idea of where it goes, what the terrain is, and ways to get back to the start?

The program didn't get you lost, you did.


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## seeborough (Feb 3, 2004)

takl23 said:


> My 15 mile easy spin turned into a 35 mile-ride-for-my-life-in-the-dark sprint home. I mapped the ride, followed the directions and got hopelessly lost and almost got hit by a car. I'm less than thrilled right now.
> 
> Tim


I read old 20th century paper maps and am not too proud to ask for directions. I don't get lost. 

And yes, MapMyRide _is_ awful.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Try bikely.com. It's similar, free and far less annoying to use. You still might get hopelessly lost and almost hit by a car, but that's your fault. No software is going to prevent that.


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## GerryR (Sep 3, 2008)

I sometimes use it, but mostly just to see about how far it is from "A" to "B". So far I've found 7 roads in MMR that don't actually exist. It is also not very good with place names. It shows a "Boulder River" east of here(Billings, MT) that is actually the Bighorn River.


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## Zipp0 (Aug 19, 2008)

I must be weird. I just point my front wheel in a direction and see what comes. When I get tired, I head back in the direction that I came from (directly or indirectly). I have established several nice short/med/long loops this way, and have yet to get "lost" for more than 20 minutes or so.

I guess maybe I am just lucky to have lots of PA farmland within a couple miles of the driveway.


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## cullenking (Jun 12, 2009)

*MMR does have competition...*

I am one of the founders of http://ridewithgps.com and saw some traffic coming into the site from this thread. Just wanted to jump in and talk about a few points, and let everyone know there is good competition, and it comes from a couple of cool dudes who have the same frustrations you all have.

First off, as a developer of a mapping program I want to make clear that making an accurate map and cue sheet 100% of the time is impossible. If you expectations are perfection, then expect to be disappointed. Google/Yahoo/OpenStreetMap/MapQuest all are missing roads, indicate pavement where there is no pavement, mess up one way streets etc. They offer maps of the ENTIRE world; that's a tall tall order.

However, with that being said there are several things that can be done in regards to cue sheet creation in order to ensure accuracy. Right now ridewithgps has pretty crappy cue sheet support, however we are working hard on a redesign (two weeks or so out) that completely revamps every corner of the site, with a bunch of focus on making the route planner/cue sheet generator top notch. A simple thing to do to help you see whether your cue sheet is decent or not, is show a marker on the map at every cue sheet direction point. A cursory glance at the map shows that yes, at that intersection there is a direction point.

Of course, after creating a cue sheet (since we are relying on google for the base directions), it is up to the mapper to look at every point and make sure Google isn't steering you off a cliff. I know it is a pain to run around and go to a seperate screen, without seeing a map, to validate the cue sheet. That is why in this redesign, we have the cue sheet and the map side by side, with interaction between the two. This allows you to easily double check the cue sheet is correct.

Also, when printing a cue sheet and map, sometimes you want to see zoomed in sections of the map as well as the whole map. For example, a 60 mile ride printed on a map might not show any of the lower level streets/intersections that you will need to know about. However, if you could easily customize the printed map by selectively adding smaller maps that show zoomed in segments (odd intersections and the like), you could avoid some of the hassle. "bear right through intersection" doesn't mean much when it is 6 streets coming into one spot! I personally want to see a zoomed picture of that intersection, so I know what the hell "bear right" means! This is something we are playing with after the initial redesign is launched. Expect to see that feature down the road.

Creakyknees: yes, paying for a service to still see ads is pretty obscene. ridewithgps aims to be a payed service, however we will always maintain free accounts. Ad revenue is hard to monetize right now (you need a large amount of traffic to generate decent income), however subscriptions aren't. As a result, we will not show any ads on payed accounts (when we have payed accounts!), and will be very very hesitant to drop ads even on free accounts. Only way I can see that happening is if no one signs up for payed accounts and we need to pay our hosting fees! Considering we have received a decent amount of donations however, I don't see this as a problem.

JohnHenry: elevation gain and loss can be very inaccurate if the problem is approached in a simple manner. The naive way to calc elevation gain is to look at the elevation difference between each point in the route: if the difference is positive, add it to the total gain, otherwise add to the total loss. However, elevation data sources (your garmin log file, the USGS elevation data we use) fluctuate up and down, so this leads to erroneous addition to total gain/loss figures. I spent a couple days working on this problem with ridewithgps, and came up with a very satisfactory solution. Basically, I used some advanced signal processing techniques on the elevation data, and now ridewithgps shows very close to what my garmin 305 displays as gain/loss. I am in the habit of recording my Garmin's displayed figures in the description of a logged ride I took. Here is an example from my (holy hell it was hot) ride yesterday:

http://ridewithgps.com/trips/1140

That ride was a killer, my body is not used to exertion in 102 degree heat. Had a hell of a time keeping the heart below 180bpm even on the flats! Mouse over the elevation profile to see the numbers at any specific point on the map.

To finish this long ramble, Zack (other founder) and I love seeing this sort of discussion. Knowing the deficiencies of not just our software, but the competitors as well, allows us to craft a program that addresses all the legitimate issues users have with these services. Since we are not a large corporation, we are able to quickly adapt to fix these issues. We don't need to talk to the analysts who need approval from management in order to implement a fix or new feature. You bring up the issue, we solve it plain and simple. Keep up the discussion!


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## EurotrashGLi (Jul 5, 2006)

Stop living in the stone age and purchase a Garmin Edge. The combination of my Edge 705 and www.mapmyride.com has been nothing short of awesome for me. I've mapped probably 50+ routes with it now, and when I upload them to my Garmin I've never missed a turn.

Cue sheets? Ha! What are those!?!?


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

Is this the iphone app, or for something else? My iphone version only records and shows me a mini-map of where I've been.


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## Dklein (Nov 25, 2008)

I use a Polar cs300 and a Garmin 76cx. The gps is a marine based unit but has elevation and full color navigator as well. So I just upload my data to the Polar site and get numbers.

You... CulllenKing, are merging not only map, elevation but also HR, cadence and so on.

How are you doing this??? Please don't tell me I need another $2k in equipment.

Cool site to BTW.


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## cullenking (Jun 12, 2009)

DKlein: the map/elevation stuff requires, obviously, no extra equipment. The HR and cadence stuff does, however. There are some bike computers on the market, notably the Gamin 305/605/705 that have wireless heart rate and cadence sensors. So, for every point the GPS unit logs, it also logs your heart rate and cadence. This, unfortunately, does mean you need to purchase extra equipment. However, these devices (especially the 305 series since the 605/705 have been out) are getting much cheaper! $250 TOPS is what you need, and if you find a good deal, that 250 gets you the newer units.

As a stopgap, you can manually enter in your max/min heart rate for a recorded ride, straight from your polar. Additionally, there may be a way to merge the UI so you can upload both the GPS log file and the polar log file separately, and have the metrics display. However, you won't be able to mouse around the map/graph and see the heart rate at any point, since the number of logged points will be different, and there is no way to reconcile them.


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## seeborough (Feb 3, 2004)

You boys crack me up! Here I am on my bike, trying my hardest to get away from anything remotely resembling a computer and you all carry every piece of electronic recording, guiding or communication equipment you can. Then you get home, back behind your keypad, and memorize your ride in zeros and ones. 

What irony.


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## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

Creakyknees said:


> yes, I think mapmyride is awful
> 
> slow, buggy, poor interface, too many ads even though I pay $5/month.
> 
> but... it's better than the competition.


That's about right. I've tried a whole bunch of similar sites but none is perfect. MMR is the lesser of all evils.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

I use toporoute and export it onto my Delorme... free and works great. It's mounted on my travel bike.


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## cyclingbrian (Jul 3, 2009)

I use a combo of Maymyride and Bike Route Toaster. I find using Bike Route Toaster much easier to use for creating routes and downloading to my 305 versus mapmyride. The cool feature of Toaster is that when creating a route it auto follow the couture of the road your are riding. On the other hand Mapmyride has a database of defined user routes which is nice for ideas but that's about it. I dislike mapmyride's screen splits when creating a route....bugs me. If Mapmyride and Toaster could combine that would be the best of all.

Never did win a prize on the virtual tour de france mapmyride promo....darn it.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

They want me to pay $2 to print out my own damn map. (I told them FU! by doing a 'print screen')

I miss RouteSlip. I tried going to routeslip once and ended up at mapmyride. I said "WTF?" Then I found out that they had bought routeslip and ruined it. [email protected]@rds.


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## cullenking (Jun 12, 2009)

platypius: yeah, it's hilarious to think someone will actually use the $2 print feature. I suppose if you offer some really cool customization of the map (select smaller maps to highlight intersections and the like) it would be worth tossing onto a premium account, but that's about it.

Here is a map image (generated on ridewithgps for any route or trip) for a ride I went on this evening in an attempt to beat the heat:










And the elevation profile with my heart rate overlayed:










The route can be viewed in full at: https://ridewithgps.com/trips/1160


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## humble (Nov 23, 2007)

I use mrr when travelling to get route ideas - but the UI sucks. Great idea very very poor execution. Their plan to get you to pay for printing is a singular - haven't run into that anywhere else - probably because it is lame. There are also way too many routes without descriptions or notes that garble up searches. Why there are so many empty routes when it's so easy to encourage and reward users to increase contribution levels. Look at a site like experts-exchange for a good example of how to encourage and reward user input. The UI for the maps is really crummy - yes the ads are annoyingly on top of the very content you came to get - wtf??!! There is not an easy way to provide feedback. The UI is very static and brittle - it is screwed up and it stays that way - you can easily get lost in clicks - there's a higher than normal learning curve - for a web utility. Usually web sites that are dynamic and continuously improving have a hovering feedback link - maybe I missed that.

To those that just do out and backs - no maps - try doing that in major metro's where you've never been and have limited free time - as compared to finding routes with notes online. It is much much safer and rewarding.

Using mrr - I've found some amazing rides - hope they get it together there...


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## Killroy (Feb 9, 2006)

I think MMR is great. Getting lost = User error?


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## golfernut78 (Mar 19, 2009)

i've been using mapmyride for the last 5 months and have been real happy with it. i think it does a solid job on the maps. yeah, its tried to follow a few roads that aren't really roads, but they are shown as roads on the map - a map that is provided to them by someone else, so thats not really mapmyride's fault. in years of using google earth, msn live, etc..... for mapping, i've determined there are a lot of short comings with the maps you find out there, thus handicapping any mapping software out there. i know the elevations that google earth calls out aren't necessarily correct, but i can sure get a good idea about how much climbing i am doing on a ride. it would be nice if mapmyride did a better job with slope percentages, but i think it does it by the entire ride and not the climb. i've map just a climb and it will say 1 percentage and then map the entire ride in which the climb is on and it will be completely different - but again, its free so i'm not going to compain.

as for cue sheets, i just right the directions down on a index card. i don't really want to carry a 8.5x11 sheet with me and dealing with it while i ride. mapmyride and others do get a little picky about where you snap and can turn you when you weren't suppouse to turn.


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## Steve D (Mar 1, 2002)

I've been using Cullen's ridewithgps.com for a while now and love it. Check it out.


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## hrumpole (Jun 17, 2008)

I haven't tried ridewith gps, but I use MMR's training log for runs, swims and bike rides. As far as rides go, I don't do cue sheets down to the tenth; what I do is just write down the turns on an index card--sometimes with approximate distances. Since the rides all start at my house for teh most part, there's not that much to remember. But I rely solely on the map; zoom in, out, etc when creating the index cards. If I'm not sure where I am, I pull over and check location on the iphone. But that's me. 

I think the service is really useful for ride ideas, and a log of swims, etc. (WHy they have so many fing sites (mapmyride, mapmytri, mapmyrun, mapmyfitness), is beyond me.


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## "Fred" (Oct 20, 2006)

I have never had any problems.


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## GearDaddy (Apr 1, 2004)

I'm not sure what you're all complaining about here. I've found that the new interface that has the "follow roads" feature when you're creating a map, and definite improvements to the speed of the site puts it over the top compared to other stuff I've used.

Now I don't really care about all the GPS stuff cuz I don't geek out on all of that, in fact I've gone the other direction and shed all computers, HRMs, and etc from my riding. I've found MMR to be really easy and quick to do a post mortem on a ride that I just did, or to recon a new route.

The one feature that I would like to see is a mapping view that better shows what is dirt road vs. pavement. The sattelite views on these sites aren't good enough to pick that out.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

cyclingbrian said:


> ...... I find using Bike Route Toaster much easier to use for creating routes and downloading to my 305 .......... Never did win a prize on the virtual tour de france mapmyride promo....darn it.


+1 on bikeroutetoaster and a Garmin Edge (705 in my case).

After creating the route, I'll enter coursepoints using Garmin's Training Center program so I can see how far it is to the next point I've picked (summit of climb, rest stop, etc).

Also never won a prize in the MMR promo!


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## golfernut78 (Mar 19, 2009)

i just recreated my afterwork ride in ridewithgps that i have in mapmyride. below are links to both rides.

http://www.mapmyride.com/ride/united-states/tx/arlington/740124870633439985

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/3630

distance wise they are the same, but there is a big difference in elevation change. on mapmyride, i have 620'-623' of elevation change where as ridewithgps the same route is 1,380' of elevation change - over twice as much. i went back and measured just one hill, that i am pretty confident is around 45'-50' with both sites and mapmyride said it was 66' and ridewithgps said 59'.

i don't believe ridewithgps is right with my ride having 1,380', i could certainly buy mapmyride being on the low side with 620'


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## cullenking (Jun 12, 2009)

golfernut78: just looked at the route on a topomap (just google maps terrain view), and started counting the gains, leaving me sure we are close to the actual gain of the ride. The topolines are increments of 50 feet for that area; when you mouse over the elevation graph, you can watch the graph correctly show the elevation for the nearest topo line. When roughly adding them up, you can see it's much greater than 600. I am pretty confident in these numbers, as I spent many days doing nothing but refine them. Additionally, when I go on rides I am now in the habit of, in the description, recording all my garmin displayed figures. This allows me to compare with ridewithgps generated figures, leading me to have a high level of confidence in our current system. If you can show me this route is definitely off, I'd love to see it. We aim to be the most accurate service available, and anything that can help us achieve that goal is appreciated.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

GearDaddy said:


> I'm not sure what you're all complaining about here. I've found that the new interface that has the "follow roads" feature when you're creating a map, and definite improvements to the speed of the site puts it over the top compared to other stuff I've used.


Really? MapMyRide's UI is often slow as hell for me, and I have a pretty fast, modern laptop (2.4GHz Core 2 Duo, 2GB of RAM).
.


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## GearDaddy (Apr 1, 2004)

SystemShock said:


> Really? MapMyRide's UI is often slow as hell for me, and I have a pretty fast, modern laptop (2.4GHz Core 2 Duo, 2GB of RAM).
> .


The responsiveness of the UI has less to do with how fast your computer is and much more to do with your Internet service and/or MMRs web servers. FWIW, I did notice that MMR was slow this afternoon from my perspective. Sometimes these sites that have all sorts references to ad related stuff get bogged down by indirect accesses to slow ad sites too, which does indeed suck. RBR is victim to that stuff too.


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## GordonH (Aug 1, 2007)

*not bad if you use a Garmin*

I also had problems with trying to use a cue sheet. The turn directions all seemed to be backwards. I started downloading the route to my Garmin 305 and it worked beautifully. Did three rides while on vacation in a totally unknown area and followed the course function on the Garmin. Worked great!


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

GearDaddy said:


> The responsiveness of the UI has less to do with how fast your computer is and much more to do with your Internet service and/or MMRs web servers. FWIW, I did notice that MMR was slow this afternoon from my perspective. Sometimes these sites that have all sorts references to ad related stuff get bogged down by indirect accesses to slow ad sites too, which does indeed suck. RBR is victim to that stuff too.


Must be the MMR servers or slow ad sites then, 'cuz my internet is Comcast cable @12.0 Mbps. Everything besides MMR is quick like a bunny.  
.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2009)

I think that MMR is generally a terrible program, and I am a premium subscriber.

FAr too much of the screen is taken up with ads and other useless add-ons that restrict the mapping portion of the screen to a small, barely useable window,

The mapping itself is OK, and distances are pretty well measured but elevation gain is off by a factor of at least 50% in every ride I have ever looked at. The numbers aren't even close.

I have been able to use it to find riding routes in areas I am travelling to, which is nice, but I have never been able to get one of those routes loaded to my GArmin.

Likewise, I have never been able to load a .gpx. .tcx file to MMR nor have I ever been able to upload directly from the Garmin.

There are so many flaws in the MMR application that it is, to me at least, useless for anything other than looking up routes that others have posted. If you do find a route, do not look at the elevation profile and put any faith at all in it.

I have gone back to Bikely, I will take a look at ridewithgps again, but the last time I tried that ( a free test account) I had a terrible time making it work with Safari.


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## golfernut78 (Mar 19, 2009)

i'm not going to say you are right or mmr is right, but when i do hill for hill comparisons, the two sites are within feet of each other. as i don't have a garmin i can't really measure anything, so for now i will just take things with a grain of salt.


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## mjengstrom (Apr 20, 2009)

FWIW, I also find discrepancies with Elevation using the various tools/websites. After my last ride using my Garmin 705, here is what I found:

Garmin after ride: 1091 ft
Garmin Connect: 1455 ft
Garmin Training Center: 1546 ft
MapMyRide: 538 ft
BikeToaster: 844 ft
RidewithGPS: 1408 ft

Based on my observations, I tend to believe RidewithGPS and the Garmin tools more than MapMyRide or BikeToaster. 

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/9999065 
http://bikeroutetoaster.com/Course.aspx?course=69964
http://ridewithgps.com/trips/1152
http://www.mapmyride.com/route/us/ma/waltham/975124896877774679


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## golfernut78 (Mar 19, 2009)

cullenking said:


> golfernut78: just looked at the route on a topomap (just google maps terrain view), and started counting the gains, leaving me sure we are close to the actual gain of the ride. The topolines are increments of 50 feet for that area; when you mouse over the elevation graph, you can watch the graph correctly show the elevation for the nearest topo line. When roughly adding them up, you can see it's much greater than 600. I am pretty confident in these numbers, as I spent many days doing nothing but refine them. Additionally, when I go on rides I am now in the habit of, in the description, recording all my garmin displayed figures. This allows me to compare with ridewithgps generated figures, leading me to have a high level of confidence in our current system. If you can show me this route is definitely off, I'd love to see it. We aim to be the most accurate service available, and anything that can help us achieve that goal is appreciated.


after playing with the site more, and mentioning the elevation comments on some local forums (dorba2.com) it seems like ridewithgps is closer to accurate on elevations than mapmyride. its pretty easy to bring routes in mapmyride over to ridewithgps. my only complaint about ridewithgps is that i would like for mile markers to appear on the route so it would be easy to compare the route with the topography. maybe this can be done and i haven't figured out how to turn it on.


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## JohnnyTooBad (Apr 5, 2004)

I use a combination of bikely and GoogleMaps. Then, I take my blackberry with me, which has GoogleMapsMobile loaded on it. I have exactly zero sense of direction, and I don't get lost anymore.


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## cullenking (Jun 12, 2009)

golfernut78: we don't currently have mile markers on the route, however there will be within the next couple weeks when we launch this redesign. However, a simple "solution" in the meantime is to mouse over the elevation profile. You'll see the point on the profile correspond to a point on the map. The profile has mileage on it, so you can see it on the map. Not ideal, but the redesign will solve this issue.


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## erleichda (Jul 30, 2009)

I've used MMR mostly, but played with motionx (great for recording routes), Trailguru, Pathtracker, GPSies.com, bikely.com and now ridewithgps.com

I find the value in MMR for recording my training and "estimating" the workout. I also find the method for searching/browsing other users routes to be superior (easier) than other sites. The deficiencies of MMR have been well described here. I do like and use the facebook/twitter connections. It has been nice when trying to get together and plan a ride with others also on FB and MMR. Also, though the total ascent seems off on MMR, the mapping of % grade is awesome.

On the bike, I'm not yet to the point I believe I can mount my iPhone and skip a computer. I don't have a garmin edge either. Display of speed, etc. and recording routes to your iPhone is problematic to say the least, as the app cannot run in the background and kills battery life. If I were to use it exclusively I'd a battery extender, but then the mounts won't work! 

I'm not sure I really need to record the whole route though, as I just plug in the route when creating it or after the ride to record what I did. I mostly use it to plan...what distance and elevation I'm looking for in a particular ride. I think ridewithgps.com may be better at this aspect given the reported accuracy of elevation. Regardless, the effort of uploading or transferring just takes me away from the fun of the ride really. 

None of the sites let you edit routes well. You need to have more robust options such as selecting and moving waypoints. On MMR, you can screw up a route in a way that cannot be easily undone without starting entirely over. The Undo or Undo last options just don't work well by themselves.

I usually write down the major turns on paper and use the iphone map as an adjunct. Great for finding water/snacks too as long as you have battery and signal. Hence, it will be a long time before I use the iphone as a dedicated cycle computer...don't want to end up batteryless. 

Should be interesting to see how all of these sites converge. I don't see better functionality at all in GPSies and their iPhone app displays the route map too small as to be remotely useful. I also think Bikely is much more difficult to browse for rides.


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## team_sheepshead (Jan 17, 2003)

cyclingbrian said:


> I use a combo of Maymyride and Bike Route Toaster. I find using Bike Route Toaster much easier to use for creating routes and downloading to my 305 versus mapmyride. The cool feature of Toaster is that when creating a route it auto follow the couture of the road your are riding. On the other hand Mapmyride has a database of defined user routes which is nice for ideas but that's about it. I dislike mapmyride's screen splits when creating a route....bugs me. If Mapmyride and Toaster could combine that would be the best of all.
> 
> Never did win a prize on the virtual tour de france mapmyride promo....darn it.


Resurrecting this thread because I just got an Edge 305 and hope to use it on my upcoming charity ride.

cyclingbrian, any tips for getting a route from Bike Route Toaster into my Edge? Here is day one of my ride: It's 142km with 927m of climbing: http://bikeroutetoaster.com/course.aspx?course=44463

And what exactly do you see on the Edge 305? If you don't have maps to look at, what's the advantage? Thanks in advance.


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## russotto (Oct 3, 2005)

I've only used mapmyride for measuring rides, not planning them. The directions it gives for the rides I put in range from wrong to in outer space somewhere, so yeah, it's pretty awful.

For planning I use paper maps, Google maps, or my encyclopaedic* knowledge of the local roads.

*That is, wide-ranging but superficial and often erroneous .


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## team_sheepshead (Jan 17, 2003)

OK, now I see some instructions from BikeRouteToaster.com (below). So I wonder: Do I have to download and run Garmin Training Center now in order to get the BikeRouteToaster file into my Edge 305??

(From BRT.com):
When you have completed the route you are creating simply enter the name of the course and click on the relevant download button. Courses can be downloaded in the following formats:
* mbcrs - Motionbased course file. Can be uploaded directly to the GPS using the motionbased agent.
* gpx - Garmin GPS file format. Can be used to import into a number of applications.
* tcx - Training Center Version 2. Can be imported into Training Center.

Garmin Communicator
Courses can be downloaded directly to a Garmin GPS by using the Garmin Communicator plugin. The Garmin Communicator plugin is a browser plugin provided by Garmin. For more details and to download/install the plugin see Garmin's web site.

Garmin Forerunner and Edge users should download in tcx format. Users of all other Garmin GPS units should use the GPX option.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

team_sheepshead said:


> .....When you have completed the route you are creating simply enter the name of the course and click on the relevant download button. Courses can be downloaded in the following formats:.
> * tcx - Training Center Version 2. Can be imported into Training Center.
> ........
> Garmin Forerunner and Edge users should download in tcx format. .


With my Edge 705. I download the tcx file and open it in Training Center to add the course points I desire (turns, landmarks, etc). After doing that, export the file so the coursepoints will be saved. File still in tcx format.

Then I just copy that file into the "Courses" folder in the Edge 705. The copy is simply a Windows file copy.

Then I follow the course going through the training screen and "do course".

Not sure about how the 305 would work.


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## T-shirt (Aug 15, 2004)

Asherc said:


> I much prefer ridewithgps.com. Much better than MapMyRide, and without the goddamn ads right on the maps.


*Wow! Thank you very much. So long, MapMyRide.*


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

Creakyknees said:


> yes, I think mapmyride is awful
> 
> slow, buggy, poor interface, too many ads even though I pay $5/month.
> 
> but... it's better than the competition.


Try www.bikeroutetoaster.com . It has no ads and no fees. You can save your routes, print out cue sheets and downloading to a Garmin is a snap.

The only downside is that there is not a way to search for public rides. You can send a link of your rides to friends, but no "public database" per se.


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## team_sheepshead (Jan 17, 2003)

Can you upload rides from Garmin device to BikeRouteToaster?


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

team_sheepshead said:


> Can you upload rides from Garmin device to BikeRouteToaster?


Yes. You have access to the tcx history file on the Garmin, right?

You can upload gpx OR tcx files.

In fact I've found some rides searching "mapmyride", downloaded their gpx file, and uploaded to bikeroutetoaster. I have edited on their site, recomputed elevation and downloaded the adjusted route/file in tcx format.


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## ph0enix (Aug 12, 2009)

iMapMyRide is absolutely horrible. I have removed removed it from my iPhone. The idea is nice but it doesn't do me any good if it's off by miles each time. My 15 mile rides show up as 18 miles. My 25 mile rides turn to 8 or 12 miles. Why even bother?


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

team_sheepshead said:


> OK, now I see some instructions from BikeRouteToaster.com (below). So I wonder: Do I have to download and run Garmin Training Center now in order to get the BikeRouteToaster file into my Edge 305??
> 
> (From BRT.com):
> When you have completed the route you are creating simply enter the name of the course and click on the relevant download button. Courses can be downloaded in the following formats:
> ...


No, you do not have to download into Training Center and then go to your Edge. Here are the steps to go direct from bikeroutetoaster to your Garmin:

1.) Install Garmin Communicator Software
2.) Sign in to bikeroutetoaster
3.) Create a course or bring up a saved course.
4.) From the summary tab go to the download section
5.) Enter a short name (easier to see on your garmin screen)
6.) With your Garmin plugged in, click on download to Garmin tcx
7.) Garmin communicator will open. Click "write to device"

That's it.

One thing I have found is that the course warning points make the files too big to store for rides over 50 miles or so.

Since the 305 does not have a "map" what you see on your screen is a line that points you in the right direction and will tell you if you are off course. You can also set that screen to display other metrics such as speed and/or time as well if you like.


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## team_sheepshead (Jan 17, 2003)

Blue CheeseHead said:


> No, you do not have to download into Training Center and then go to your Edge. Here are the steps to go direct from bikeroutetoaster to your Garmin:
> 
> 1.) Install Garmin Communicator Software
> 2.) Sign in to bikeroutetoaster
> ...


Thanks very much for this. 

How do you toggle on/off Course Warning Points? On BikeRouteToaster or on the Garmin device?

Yes, I have been told that having Warning Points doubles the file size. I think it was Danl1 from RBR who told me his "draws" his turns a few hundred feet before the real-world turn so the device gives him a heads up before he must turn.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

Asherc said:


> I much prefer ridewithgps.com. Much better than MapMyRide, and without the goddamn ads right on the maps.


I think I like that better than bikeroutetoaster. Thanks


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## muscleendurance (Jan 11, 2009)

U guys actually use it to navigate 
I only ever use it to plot rides Ive already done, or laying out new cycletours and getting distance and elevation info.


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## mondayC (May 22, 2008)

Just to start, I don't own a bike computer (yet) comparing the same route between MMR and RidewithGPS shows two very different answers. MMR says I rode 25.3 miles with 445 ft elevation change, but RideW/GPS says I rode 22.4 miles with 830ft (almost twice) the elevation change. 
What is everyone's experiences with either service's accuracy?


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## bobthib (May 28, 2009)

Creakyknees said:


> yes, I think mapmyride is awful
> 
> slow, buggy, poor interface, too many ads even though I pay $5/month.
> 
> but... it's better than the competition.



RE: mapmyride, I agree. IMHO I find www.ridewithgps.com much, much better. 

The interface is more intuitive, it's free, and it is not cluttered with ads. Printing maps and or queue sheets are free, as is downloading or uploading various supported file types.

The site is the brain child to two guys who are web whizzes, and riders to boot. They are very open to user input, and changes sometimes happen overnight (not always, but sometimes) Case in point, I made a suggestion at 12:30 midnight Friday Eastern. The next morning I was showing my buddy the site after our Sat am club ride, and BINGO! there were the changes I suggested, and a message from one of the founders thanking me for the good idea! 

The only thing wrong with the site is the name. You don't need a GPS to use the site, or benefit from all it has to offer. I think it's the best! :thumbsup:


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## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

Wow.

I just tried ridewithgps.com and I'm very disappointed.

I created a simple route around my neighborhood, with plenty of turns so I could get acquainted with the routing system.

The first time I tried this, I saw the cue sheet on the left populate as I routed. When I started a new route, this longer happened. I had to reload/start over several times in order for the cue sheet to start populating as I routed.

Once I got the cue sheet to work, I noticed that almost every turn was wrong. Right turn instead of left, left turn instead of right, and so on. Ok. Whatever. I knew I'd be editing the course points to use my own nomenclature, so it wasn't a big deal.

But then I noticed that the cut sheet was still missing some of my turns. Ok. Whatever. I'd just add course points manually to fill in the blanks. 

So once I finished my route, I took at look the cue sheet. What a mess. At every turn, the program added two entries to the cue sheet: one being the L-Barrington course point that I added at the time, the other being the directional "northeast on Barrington toward Wilshire" that the program added. So for every turn in the cue sheet I had to delete one course point. Not only is this a pain, it's also very dangerous when you're talking about plotting a route on which you'll be depending when you're riding in an unfamiliar area.

Then came the turns that the cue sheet just completely missed. I'd click Add Course Point and add the point manually. Well, this worked in some cases, and in some cases not ... I would click endlessly on the blue dot at a junction but nothing would happen. I wouldn't get the the little window to name and describe my course point.

Well, suffice to say, that last "glitch" made ridewithgps 100% useless. And that's a shame, because the interface is nice (except that it always starts in the far northwest) and cullen seems to be passionate about the project.

It's no wonder I always end up back at mapmyride.

*sigh*


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## bobthib (May 28, 2009)

DrRoebuck said:


> Wow. I just tried ridewithgps.com and I'm very disappointed.


Sorry to hear about your frustrations and problems. Zack and Cullen, the 2 brains behind RWGPS, are very responsive and helpful. I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't get a PM from them. I'm sure they want to know why you had the problems you had. 

I know that they are very responsive because they got back to me when I was having problems saving a route. I was getting pretty frustrated trying to map a complex route. I was using Google Chrome. I guess trying to develop a complex app like RWGPS and have it work perfectly with every browser, and every update to every browser is really a full time job. Or does "headache" explain it better? Any way, I told them about my problem and I was able to help them track down what ever little bit of errant code was causing the problem.

I'm sure they would really like to help resolve your problem and make you a loyal RWGPS convert.


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## newmexrb1 (Aug 16, 2009)

I just saw this thread last nite and am I glad--I hated MMR and the RWGPS just rocks. Had one small problem using Google chrome where if I was looking at grade and made the wrong move, I'd get kicked out into a global view with no way back. Otherwise RWGPS rocks!


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## martinrjensen (Sep 23, 2007)

*....*

so that is the ONLY road that has the potential of a collision in your whole city? (sorry, I can't resist)


takl23 said:


> If I hadn't gotten lost due to the program, I wouldn't have been on the road I was on hence I wouldn't have had a near collision.


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## snosaw (May 30, 2006)

As a guideline, I try to never put all of my trust into technology...i.e. a gps, a cell and/or sat phone, an avalanche transceiver, SPOT, etc. I encourage all to use technology as a tool. I believe we all still need to go out prepared. I like to have a backup. As far as MMR is concerned, the mapping software is MapQuest. Again, do not put all of your faith into technology...MQ has it's faults too. For example, my home was built in 1889 and MQ says that the location does not exist. Believe me, it does exist. 
So, use technology as a tool but always have a backup or don't go.


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## cullenking (Jun 12, 2009)

DrRoebuck: Sorry you had issues that severe, I hope I can help out.

Several people have reported issues with accuracy of the cuesheets (left instead of right sort of issues), however all three reports turned out to be the same issue. What happens is this: you are mapping a route at a certain zoom level which is far enough out to not resolve small turnarounds of the route. If you are zoomed out enough and you click on or near the intersection of two roads and then take the turn at that intersection with your next click, you may not see that the first click passed the intersection, and the route actually did a 180 and had to backtrack 10 or 20 feet to make the turn. As a result, your left turn will be marked as a right turn. All three reports of inaccuracies turned out to be this exact problem. I do not know how to mitigate this issue, except instruct users to map a ride at a zoom level that allows them to see if something like this happens. We are not creating these directions from scratch, we are merely giving you what Google gives us! If this is not the case, please send me a link to the route in question so I can check it out and determine what the issue actually is.

The second issue you mentioned with the cue sheet, the double entries, is a bit tricky. Every line segment drawn (line segment being defined by two clicks on the map), is independent as far as Google is concerned; Google doesn't know you were already on 15th street as you continue clicking along it (to them it's the first direction). Since they always return at least one direction with a request, you'll see "head east on 15th" when you are already on it. I have a couple 'intelligent' filters in there that already are trimming down these issues (they used to be much more severe), and I have just been hesitant to make them more aggressive. My worry is that making them more aggressive will trim an occasional needed note! However, I will head back into that code and see what I can do to improve this, since I am also frustrated by the issue.

Snosaw is right on the money: always double check automatic systems! Even though my car has a low/change oil light, I sure as heck check the dipstick whenever I fill up the tank. The cost of that system failing and my oil level being low can be upwards of $3k, so it's a no brainer. Same goes with these automatic directions from Google. Some direction is guaranteed to be faulty at some point or the other. My current process for drawing a route is map it out, then check each cue sheet note against the map, trimming unnecessary or adding necessary notes as I move through. This vetting process takes me about 2 minutes after drawing a route (much quicker than drawing the thing), and ensures my cuesheet is small and accurate.

I am not sure what your issues with adding a cue sheet point to the map were. If you can reproduce the issue and send me a message telling me how to do it, including what browser you are using, that would help greatly. If I can fix it for you and prevent anyone else from the frustration, I consider it a win.

On that note, please everyone, if you notice any issues send Zack, Cam or I a message, we will almost always respond within 24 hours. This project is being developed to solve your problems, so don't think it's a bother for us to add an issue to our todo list.

Finally, as of late we have been attempting to be more "consistent" with releases, so your fix/suggestion (unless it's trivial or urgent) will probably roll out with a batch of updates once a week or so. We have started a versioning and changelog system, so when the new version is released a visible number will increment in the header of the site. Clicking on that version number will bring up the changelog, which shows everything we have fixed/added in that release. This new bit of transparency should come out by the end of the week when we push the next batch of changes out. Originally we were pushing them out as quick as possible, but that becomes harder to do and coordinate amongst three people who live in two separate cities!


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## TheMarz (Jul 9, 2009)

I've been using MMR since I got my bike a month and a half ago. The ads do get in the way but I have not had a problem with the mapping feature in terms of performance. While I don't use the clue sheet but I do think it is good for keeping track of your rides month to month, in terms of distance and time.


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## westekBike (Aug 10, 2009)

The iPhone app for MMR really sucks. I do use the MMR website to find road loops in my area (lots of them) and then export them over to Everytrail where I can then import them into the Trails app. Then I start a new route in Trails and use the road loop as the template and I get a nice blue line that shows me where to go the whole ride. I love it. GPS apps for the iPhone are still far from perfect, but this is as close as it gets right now IMHO.


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## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

Cullen:

Thanks for the reply. I just drew a map and made sure not click points in intersections. I still had to delete half the redundant course points in the cue sheet. It wasn't as nerve-wracking as before, but I still think deleting course points like that creates a scenario that is ripe for user error.

I only had to add a few course points myself, and didn't have the same problem I had before.

Two thoughts:

1) It would be great if we could manually adjust where the course points fall. Reason being, when I draw GPX routes I typically put the waypoint half a block before the intersection where I'm turning, so I know ahead of time that I need to prepare (merge left, etc.). The way it is now, the course point falls on the turn itself. If I'm unfamiliar with an area, I won't know that turn is coming up. The only lead-time is the Garmin's buffer. (It doesn't help that routes/waypoints with the Edge 705 basically suck and we're forced to use courses and course points, which means I can't display the next turn on my main screen.)

2) I hadn't logged in when I just created this route. After the half hour or so that it took me, I saved the route and on the next screen was presented with the option to create a new account, or login at the top. So I logged in on the top-right but now have no way to save that route to my account. IOW, if you draw a route before you log in, you're screwed. Now I know (and will hopefully remember) to login before I start routing, but that's a glitch in the UI that needs to be fixed. IMO, of course.


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## cullenking (Jun 12, 2009)

*Fixing stuff, please love our site!*

DrRoeBuck: I went ahead and massaged the auto-trimming of those redundant points. It appears to be rock solid, and now produces much less cruft. This should make it into the next release later this week, unless we find something terribly wrong with it in the interim.

Additionally, thanks for reminding me: I intended on making it so you can add coursepoints anywhere on the route, it just got pushed to the backburner because it wasn't a clear cut problem/solution. It's a bit more problematic, but I think I know how to code it up. Issue lies in the fact that Google returns minimum amount of points possible to draw a line. So, if the road is straight, they ignore the points inbetween since they are unnecessary to draw. I like the concept of "confining" coursepoints to the route in question (rather than anywhere you click on the map), so I have to interpolate where to plunk the new point along the route. If you have any reasons to suggest the concept of placing coursepoints only along the route is faulty, I am all ears. I just like the idea of keeping things in _some_ sort of _loose_ box, as it allows a rider to expect some consistency. I'll poke at this today a bit as well and see if I can squeeze it into the next release.

Good call on the anonymous route issue. I should make it auto-save that to your profile if you log in after creating it; it will be in the next release. If you want, message me on the site with the route in question and I'll manually add it to your profile.


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## Lonzy (Aug 22, 2009)

Well since reading this thread a few days ago, I've more or less converted to Ridewithgps! Much nicer to use, and no ads... such a relief

Admittedly I haven't tried to input stats into Rgps like I used to do with Mapmyride (I really liked the calendar) but I'm starting to use excel anyway. I don't know what's up with the elevation differences between different sites, but as long as it's consistent then I can just see what's flatter or steeper than the last ride.

One minor minor update I'd like, is the ability to zoom using the mouse wheel (I hate to say this, but like MMR!) It's especially useful when zooming in 4-5 times... no need to reposition the box each time.

OK that made no sense.. I hope you can understand it!

Using cue sheets for the first time tomorrow - hopefully I won't have these issues with being sent the wrong way after junctions! I've triple checked...


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## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

cullenking said:


> If you have any reasons to suggest the concept of placing coursepoints only along the route is faulty, I am all ears.


Nope. Seems to be a logical restriction. I can't think of a time I've ever wanted to put a course/way point off the route.

On another note, I saved the course I made as a TCX file and copied it to my 705, but when I went to navigate the course none of the course points was there. I used the same process with bikeroutetoaster and it worked just fine. I'm going to try again to see if it's a recurring problem.

It would also be nice if the GPX file used the course points as waypoints. This is mainly because of the 705's quirkiness. For whatever reason, they've tried to make courses/course points the standard, instead of routes/waypoints. So a route is limited to one or two routes stored on the 705 at any given time, and the routes are limited to 100 waypoints. Meanwhile, I can store a ton of courses and I believe a ton of coursepoints, but the 705 limits course point names to 10 characters -- which really sucks -- and you can't display the "next" course point on any screen. I use "next" all the time to keep a lookout for the next turn. Very helpful.

Sorry for the mini-rant, but my overall point is that I'd like to use GPX routes with waypoints when possible, then use courses/course points when I need to exceed the built-in limits of the routes. When I saved my ridewithgps route as a GPX file, I didn't get any of the waypoints. Does that make sense?


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## cyclingbrian (Jul 3, 2009)

team_sheepshead said:


> Resurrecting this thread because I just got an Edge 305 and hope to use it on my upcoming charity ride.
> 
> cyclingbrian, any tips for getting a route from Bike Route Toaster into my Edge? Here is day one of my ride: It's 142km with 927m of climbing: http://bikeroutetoaster.com/course.aspx?course=44463
> 
> And what exactly do you see on the Edge 305? If you don't have maps to look at, what's the advantage? Thanks in advance.


Hi - sorry for the delay but the courses I define in Toast are exported via their tool to my 305- GPX format I believe.

If you define a course with too many points the 305 cannot handle it. Try deleting existing courses in the unit (if applicable) and try downloading again.


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## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

DrRoebuck said:


> On another note, I saved the course I made as a TCX file and copied it to my 705, but when I went to navigate the course none of the course points was there. I used the same process with bikeroutetoaster and it worked just fine. I'm going to try again to see if it's a recurring problem.


Just tried this again with a different course and had the same result. I have the course, but when I load it onto my 705 the same way I did through bikeroutetoaster, I don't get any course points.

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/7897

///And FYI, I tried converting both TCX and GPX files into other other formats on gpsies, and each time I lost all the course points I created. That tells me that there's something invalid to your TCX files. But that's a guess, because I'm definitely not an expert on GPS files.


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## Bill70J (Sep 23, 2004)

*"Personal Antivirus" virus on MMR*

FWIW, I caught the "Personal Antivirus" virus on MMR two days ago, even though I am using McAfee. I hope others using the site don't have the same problem. It took a lot of effort to get rid of it.


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## jdille1984 (May 16, 2009)

RWGPS freakin' rocks! No chance I'm ever going back to MMR. Cullen is the greatest code monkey that every lived! Keep it up!


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## ksteinhoff (Jan 7, 2009)

I don't know about "awful," but I let my subscription lapse after a couple of months. I didn't find it useful. I'm better off with Garmin's mapping programs and Google Earth.


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## cullenking (Jun 12, 2009)

DrRoebuck: Yeah I am going to add a specific CRS export option for including those course points in the output. I didn't realize the 705 needed that specific version. I will poke at that shortly (maybe tonight, maybe tomorrow). Mind being a guinea pig? I don't have a 705 myself, which is why I did not catch this issue sooner. Just a measly 305 with no turn-by-turn support


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## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

cullenking said:


> DrRoebuck: Yeah I am going to add a specific CRS export option for including those course points in the output. I didn't realize the 705 needed that specific version. I will poke at that shortly (maybe tonight, maybe tomorrow). Mind being a guinea pig? I don't have a 705 myself, which is why I did not catch this issue sooner. Just a measly 305 with no turn-by-turn support


Don't mind at all. You can PM if you want my email address and want to take this conversation offline.

Also, how hard would it be to make the elevation profile hideable? Don't know abouthers, but I like as much real estate as I can while I'm mapping.


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## cullenking (Jun 12, 2009)

Just send me your preferred email address and I'll let you know when I have something for you. I have a hard time keeping track of forum conversations, but email is more manageable. [email protected]


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## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

cullenking said:


> DrRoebuck: Yeah I am going to add a specific CRS export option for including those course points in the output. I didn't realize the 705 needed that specific version. I will poke at that shortly (maybe tonight, maybe tomorrow). Mind being a guinea pig? I don't have a 705 myself, which is why I did not catch this issue sooner. Just a measly 305 with no turn-by-turn support


I had no idea about your site till this thread. Thanks for putting it together, seems really useful.


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## MisterMike (Aug 12, 2004)

*Yes, it's awful but it's got the marketing....*

I don't have a GPS to download anything to so I use cue sheets.

Nothing I've seen comes even close to Google Maps ability to simply drag out your route. Just keep dragging...so simple. When I'm done then generate a cue sheet using this nifty little link. It's a gem http://www.the-yosts.com/googlemap_cuesheet.html follow the instructions. It even creates a snurl for your google map.


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