# Cross Check Dropout Question



## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

For an upcoming enduro-CX race, I decided to convert my SS Surly Crosscheck to 9-speed. When I test rode it yesterday, I realized that if I didn't have the QR skewer clamped really freakin' tight that the rear wheel would slip forward. I didn't use a QR when it was SS, so it never occured to me that the horizontal dropouts would allow this to happen. 
I got it tight enough that it didn't budge during remainder of my test ride, but I'm still wary that it could slip out if I put a large amount of stress on the drivetrain. I looked at a lot of geared Crosscheck photos & it seems that people just use a standard QR. Anyone had issues with this? Am I just being paranoid?


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

I don't think you're being especially paranoid. I've had my rear wheel slip using alloy qr skewers with a crosscheck. It seems to hold more securely if you use a low end steel skewer.


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## bwcross (Sep 30, 2006)

A local police bike squad uses the Cross Checks, and most of the guys are 240lbs plus. If the guys forget to crank their quick releases tight, the back wheels will slip. Otherwise when adequately tightened no problems.


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## Susan Walker (Mar 21, 2008)

Can't you move it all the way fwd? Or else perhaps use inserts for some extra room for the tire.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

It's a forward-opening horizontal dropout, so forward is not such a good idea


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

Susan Walker said:


> Can't you move it all the way fwd? Or else perhaps use inserts for some extra room for the tire.


The CrossCheck has forward facing semi-horizontal drops, not track ends.

Shimano skewers should be adequate.


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## DPCX (Nov 11, 2004)

My wife has a cross check & she's had this problem as well. I think I asked this same question on here & someone advised that Shimano quick releases seem to hold better than others. We tried it & she didnt have any trouble with it again. Also, what is the rear hub spacing on the geared wheel you installed? Aren't Cross checks 135 spacing in the rear? If you have a 130 in there you would have to have it clamped down pretty tight. 

DP


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## BigDweeb (Jun 26, 2007)

I had the same problem. I switched from Bontrager quick release to Shimano and got some Monkey Nuts

http://www.surlybikes.com/spew12.html

and the problem went away.


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

AFAIK, Monkey Nuts will not work on a CrossCheck, which has totally different drops than the Karate Monkey.


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## FTM (Feb 4, 2005)

PeanutButterBreath said:


> Shimano skewers should be adequate.


Yup, that design worked fine for all the decades that those dropouts were the norm.


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

Spacing is 132.5.

Come to think of it, we had a Salsa Ti skewer on the CrossCheck for several races and no slippage (except once when I mis-installed it). Still, any old Shimano steel skewer clamped reasonably tight should do the trick.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

Glad to hear... I have one of those that I use as a trainer skewer. I'll give it a shot this afternoon.


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## dankilling (Aug 27, 2002)

I run a Bontrager skewer as well- no issues. I also have the adjustment screws in there which seems to help keep everything aligned as well but that might just be in my head.


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## BigDweeb (Jun 26, 2007)

They seem to work for me - installed backwards of course. I wanted to run with my axle in the middle of the dropouts not all the way back. I think the fact that the non-drive side was allowed to slip backwards exacerbated the slippage when applying power on the drive side. The Monkey nuts provided a hard stop for the non-drive side which I think is helping to prevent the drive side moving forward. Maybe. I am just a hack so I could be wrong. 

Anyway - the suggestion to use them came from Surly.


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## cyklopath (Feb 24, 2007)

_*Really Friggin Tight *_is a very good description of how tight it has to be......

My SSCX bike has the same config dropouts as your Surly (Campy Drops on mine) and I run an old heavy duty Shimano skewer from the junk box to be able to crank it down hard enough to prevent slipping.

Like dankilling, I use the adjusters in mine to make the wheel easy to install and align.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

I backed the adjustment screws all the way out on mine so that the axle rests against the rear of the dropout. Also makes alignment easy!


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

BigDweeb said:


> The Monkey nuts provided a hard stop for the non-drive side which I think is helping to prevent the drive side moving forward.


In this case, it would seem to me that the Monkey Nuts only replicate the function that the adjustment screws that ship with the frame provide.

If you have backward slippage that the screws can't prevent, backwards Monkey Nuts may be the solution. . .


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

http://sheldonbrown.com/skewers.html

_Quick Release skewers come in two distinct types: Enclosed cam and Exposed cam designs.
[...]
The exposed-cam skewers are generally OK for vertical dropouts in back, and for forks with "lawyer lips", but should not be relied on with horizontal dropouts or plain forks.
[...]
Good quality skewers have acorn nuts with steel serrations that can bite into the face of the dropout, so the wheel won't slip forward. Good skewers have a serrated steel surface to bear against the outside surface of the frame, but most of the "boutique" skewers have soft aluminum parts in this position, presumably to save weight.

The aluminum "teeth" are too soft to get a good grip on the dropout. Since the chain pulls on the right side of the hub, where the acorn nut commonly resides, this type of skewer is almost always unsatisfactory for use with a frame that has horizontal dropouts._


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

It's a sign, you don't need gears.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

.....


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## lousylegs (Jul 15, 2005)

Andrea138 said:


> .....


Where is this enduro-cyclocross race? Enquiring minds want to know.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Andrea138 said:


> .....


. . . so?


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

Southern Cross in Ellijay, GA.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

Pablo said:


> . . . so?


I really just want the gears more for the first 12 miles than the climb itself. I could easily find a SS gear that I could grind the whole way up, but since I'm gonna be racing ladies on geared bikes, I don't want to let them get away from me on the flat part leading up to the climb


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Andrea138 said:


> I really just want the gears more for the first 12 miles than the climb itself. I could easily find a SS gear that I could grind the whole way up, but since I'm gonna be racing ladies on geared bikes, I don't want to let them get away from me on the flat part leading up to the climb


You're a roadie, wheel suck your way to victory.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

Pablo said:


> You're a roadie, wheel suck your way to victory.


_Lebusque has reached the age of 42 without ever understanding Reilhan, for all his wheel-sucking, is more of a racer than he is, no matter how much he pulls._
Tim Krabbe, The Rider


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

I prefer to cross the line solo. I'll probably wheel suck to the climb, though


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## tomk96 (Sep 24, 2007)

Andrea138 said:


> I prefer to cross the line solo. I'll probably wheel suck to the climb, though



me too, but i don't end up on the podium. :mad2:


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