# OLN (VS) coverage being dropped...



## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

I find it kind of funny how many people on this board are jumping to the conclusion that OLN will be dropping the TDF coverage next year because of the Landis doping allegation.

The reality is if there are people watching it, they will show it. If people watch it, companies will advertise on it. I noticed way more commercials than last year. Heck, I remember when every freaking commercial was a Lincoln Navigator commercial.

The numbers were not that bad this year for a non network station, especially one with OLN's stature. In fact they were pretty equal to what Hockey is getting these days, and they will continue to cover that sport.

Essentially, OLN won't drop the coverage due to drug allegations or the sports inherent doping problems, they will drop it because of lack of viewers. Now if people stop watching cycling because of the doping problems, that's a different problem.


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## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

*I think you're right*



Wookiebiker said:


> I find it kind of funny how many people on this board are jumping to the conclusion that OLN will be dropping the TDF coverage next year because of the Landis doping allegation.
> 
> The reality is if there are people watching it, they will show it. If people watch it, companies will advertise on it. I noticed way more commercials than last year. Heck, I remember when every freaking commercial was a Lincoln Navigator commercial.
> 
> ...


And I think viewership will decline markedly for a couple of reasons. First the post Lance era is upon us which leads into the Second reason which is, no new American champion to take up the reigns and keep Joe Public interested IF Landis is stripped and banned for two (plus two) years. And I also think there will be less viewership from hard core pro cycling fans as well. I may watch some coverage next year, but I just can't at the moment see myself investing as much time as I did this year. Who knows, maybe by next July I'll have forgotten it all and get caught up in it just because it's on. But I don't think so...my interest in pro cycling has been on the decline in recent years anyway due to the constant doping problem being so public. Who really knows...we'll have to wait and see.


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## Allez Rouge (Jan 1, 1970)

*Isn't it the other way around?*



Wookiebiker said:


> If people watch it, companies will advertise on it.


I think the way this works is, if companies advertise on it, people will get an opportunity to watch it. If no advertisers can be found to underwrite the production costs, we'll get another hockey game, or still more cowboys being bucked off still more bulls.

One would hope that EVERY potential advertiser won't withdraw its support, worldwide, but I cannot help but think that if Landis' win is rescinded, that's not going to be good for Tour coverage here in the US, where cycling is a fringe sport at best. I don't think it's at all out of the question that no major corporation would touch the sport next year (as a TV advertiser, I mean), which means OLN/Versus would have to rope in a whole slew of minor sponsors to pay the bills. I'm not at all confident that would or could happen.

EDIT: One other element, though ... if OLN/Versus is already under contract to broadcast Le Tour next year, and their lawyers haven't given them a workable escape clause, they might have to show the thing even if there are no advertisers to be found.


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## bikejr (Jul 30, 2004)

I'm beginning to think the only people that really care if people use performance enhancements are the hard core types like you would find in a cycling forum.. 

The average Joe just doesn't care. Not that the average Joe is probably watching the TDF to any degree. 

Pro sports have become so tainted of late, people either are long gone or just really don't care anymore and just want to be entertained.

If find myself in the latter category and am not afraid to admit it. I can say unless I just totally lose interest in cycling I will be there next year watching every bit as much as I have since I got into cycling back in the mid 90's.


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## 53T (Jul 20, 2002)

Right, and the networks are dropping baseball.


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

bikejr said:


> I'm beginning to think the only people that really care if people use performance enhancements are the hard core types like you would find in a cycling forum..
> 
> The average Joe just doesn't care. Not that the average Joe is probably watching the TDF to any degree.
> 
> ...


What will diminish my interest is the fear I will get excited and enjoy watching someone put in a great performance and win the race only to be later told he really wasn't the winner weeks or months later.

But I will get over it. I still think Pantani was the real winner in the 1999 Giro and don't watch the stages after he got booted, Heras won the Vuelta 4 times, Basso won this year's Giro, and Floyd won the Tour (though Floyd has a bit of an asterisk to me because some of the other dopers weren't allowed to start).


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## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

*Not the same*



53T said:


> Right, and the networks are dropping baseball.


Baseball doesn't suffer at the moment from the perception that it is a dirty sport through and through. And I'm not saying it isn't...just that in the public mind and amongst it's fan base it doesn't suffer at the same level as pro cycling despite all the BALCO and Barry Bonds fury. The difference also is that if some, or even a lot, of the players are juiced it doesn't as profoundly impact the final result as doping potentially can in cycling or track or nordic skiing etc. In a race, if the winner is found to have doped he is stripped of his title but that doesn't really "fix" the problem...the sporting event that was watched live, and the awards ceremony that was watched live, by millions of viewers winds up being a "sham"...at least in the sense that the winner didn't "really" win. It potentially totally destroys the integrety of what you are watching while you are watching it if every time there is a very real possiblility that the winner across the finish line and on the podium will later, in a week, or a month, or two months, be disqualified.


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## Fogdweller (Mar 26, 2004)

I think the OP brings up an interesting point though I'll offer another perspective. The recent scandle and the retirement of LA (which will be two years at next year's tour) may cause advertisers to look elsewhere to spend their dollars. Even if people are watching, cornerstone advertisers may not want to hang their image and dollars on a sport with a tarnished image and one with no American heros (by that, I mean heros for the average Joe American, not hard core fans like you and me). So, if Versus is unable to sell the ad space at a price that makes a profit, then you will see more of Fishing with Roland Smith, an no shaved legs and Phil/Paul.
When OLN aired both the Giro and the Vuelta in 03, they lost their shirts because the media buys were a third to a half of what they could sell for fishing and bull riding (the real demographic of OLN). It was a major financial blunder for OLN, one that they will not repeat. Now the big sponsor from this year's tour was a B grade, Swedish car maker who wont overspend for media again, not after what our sport has become to a marketer. What does the future hold for Versus, trying to convince a large corp to secure top dollar rates for next year's tour broadcast? I'll bet they're very nervous and weighing their options. The owner of OLN is a huge cycling fan but he wont make a media gamble again on our sport, no way. Will they air it next year? Perhaps, but not if the numbers don't work.


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

Fogdweller said:


> Now the big sponsor from this year's tour was a B grade, Swedish car maker who wont overspend for media again, not after what our sport has become to a marketer.


What? B Grade? I have a 1999 Saab 9-3 with 105k miles that has never required servicing and still rides quite nicely. Almost like it was built from jets! 

$3400 OBO


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## 867-5309 (Oct 7, 2005)

*Fine print*



JohnHemlock said:


> What? B Grade? I have a 1999 Saab 9-3 with 105k miles that has never required servicing and still rides quite nicely. Almost like it was built from jets!
> 
> $3400 OBO


In the ad, the fine print said that Saab airplanes and automobiles were no longer affiliated. So, the ads had basically no meaning.

:idea:


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## innergel (Jun 14, 2002)

I don't think anyone said they would drop cycling because of the doping scandals. I think it will be a combination of a lot of things, mostly a lack of advertisers. The dope scandals don't help at all. Advertisers who are locked in will be looking for an out clause if they can find one. A few years ago there was weekly cycling recap show on Thursday night, pro races every weekend, and full coverage of all three grand tours. Now we get Cyclism Sunday at about 4pm and the TDF. That's it and it's being cut back every year. Unfortunately the writing is on the wall for cycling coverage. The rest of the stuff didn't sell and they Board at OLN will not let that happen again, no matter what feelings the President has for cycling. Cash is king and if it doesn't generate any, it won't be shown. 

Like it or not, we are a fringe sport in America. Hunting and fishing and bull riding obviously have a bigger demographic than we do, so that's the way they are moving. It sucks, but what can you do. Just enjoy it while you've got it. You'll have to get your fix on the internet soon enough.


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## Fogdweller (Mar 26, 2004)

JohnHemlock said:


> $3400 OBO


I'll give you $1,500 and a set of Bontrager RaceXlites (shimano compat) with fresh tires, that's my final offer...


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## ari (Jan 25, 2005)

867-5309 said:


> In the ad, the fine print said that Saab airplanes and automobiles were no longer affiliated. So, the ads had basically no meaning.
> 
> :idea:


Apparently, "Saab: Made by GM" didn't do quite as well in their focus groups. 

Cheers,
Ari


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## Fredke (Dec 10, 2004)

ari said:


> Apparently, "Saab: Made by GM" didn't do quite as well in their focus groups.


These days, I thought the full tag line was "Saab: Born from Subarus. Cool yer jets!"


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## Sub (Feb 13, 2004)

The Ad did say "born from Jets" which is true, the engineers initially designed planes then turned to cars. Anywhoo, I'm hoping cycling gets going on the internet so we can pick and choose and watch whatever race we want. I would gladly pay for a subscription to do so as well. Let's just hope for a miracle that FL's tests come back clean, though from the looks of it that seems an impossibility at this point.


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

I refuse to believe that there are more people in the U.S. who will sit down and watch a rodeo, a couple guys sitting in a boat fishing, a poker tournament, or a danged bowling match before they'll watch professional cycling. Cycling suffers from the same problem as soccer or baseball: it's not really a spectator sport. It's a participant sport, and it really is only very interesting to spectators if they are, or have been, a participant on some level. In this country, baseball has been played by us, our fathers and grandfathers, and plenty of people in this country enjoy watching it despite the fact that, unlike football or basketball, it's not a made-for-TV sport. Soccer in Europe and South America is the same for them. Cycling in Europe is popular for the same reason, but, like soccer, is not yet very popular in America. But if enough people get into recreational cycling--or soccer--it eventually--over a period of decades, not months or years--will become a major U.S. sport. Given the success and marketability of guys like Lemond and Armstrong (and Landis if he's cleared), and the fact that recreational cycling is just darn fun, I think there's actually a decent chance of that happening. But it's going to take time. 

I think ESPN makes a big mistake by focusing on things like bowling, X-games and the World Series of Poker (a sport?!), leaving cycling to Versus. Cycling has tremendous room for growth in the U.S., and OLN/Versus is becoming the network associated with the sport in the minds of fans. There was bound to be a drop in viewership post-LA, but I would still wager that Versus comes out much better with advertisers for the TdF coverage than it does for its fishing and hunting shows.

If Landis is declared guilty and suspended, I don't think that effects coverage next year one bit. If anything, the scandal has perhaps made the sport more interesting in the U.S., in the short-run, than it would have been if, say, Pereiro wins the Tour and none of this happens. Next year, you'll again have an American cyclist leading the American team (and, I think, having a very good chance in the Tour, particularly if certain suspensions go down), and you'll be coming off the most exciting GT in nearly two decades. I also would not be surprised if you see more LA visibility in cycling starting next year (he'll need it to maintain his own relevancy), which will help the folks at Versus. At worst, Versus might cut back some TdF coverage (only do, say, the live coverage in the morning and the "enhanced" in the evening). But I would expect a return of Cyclism Sundays every week, and I would not be surprised if they offer daily coverage of the two other GT's or possibly live coverage of Roubaix (possibly Hincapie's last good chance...). Haven't they already committed to daily coverage of the ToCali?


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## cbbaron (Apr 18, 2003)

cyclodawg said:


> I refuse to believe that there are more people in the U.S. who will sit down and watch a rodeo, a couple guys sitting in a boat fishing, a poker tournament, or a danged bowling match before they'll watch professional cycling. Cycling suffers from the same problem as soccer or baseball: it's not really a spectator sport. It's a participant sport, and it really is only very interesting to spectators if they are, or have been, a participant on some level. In this country, baseball has been played by us, our fathers and grandfathers, and plenty of people in this country enjoy watching it despite the fact that, unlike football or basketball, it's not a made-for-TV sport. Soccer in Europe and South America is the same for them. Cycling in Europe is popular for the same reason, but, like soccer, is not yet very popular in America. But if enough people get into recreational cycling--or soccer--it eventually--over a period of decades, not months or years--will become a major U.S. sport. Given the success and marketability of guys like Lemond and Armstrong (and Landis if he's cleared), and the fact that recreational cycling is just darn fun, I think there's actually a decent chance of that happening. But it's going to take time.


You may refuse to believe it but I think you may be wrong. 
The problem with cycling on TV is not the lack of cyclist, there are plenty of them in the US, but the lack of cyclists that have competed in cycling. Professional baseball and soccer are competitions just like the recreational games just with better athletes. Recreational competitiors can relate to thier professional counterparts. However competion road cycling is very different from riding by yourself for exercise or enjoying a recreational tour. Most cyclists do not understand the strageties and teams in pro cycling. Combine that with a sport that is pretty boring most of the time with just a few very exciting minutes and you have something that is hard to market to a TV audience. I really enjoy watching cycling on TV but I still find myself watching a Tivoed copy of the program and fast forwarding through much of each stage.

Craig

PS. I cycle every day but I have never competed in a cycling race.


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

cbbaron said:


> You may refuse to believe it but I think you may be wrong.
> The problem with cycling on TV is not the lack of cyclist, there are plenty of them in the US, but the lack of cyclists that have competed in cycling. Professional baseball and soccer are competitions just like the recreational games just with better athletes. Recreational competitiors can relate to thier professional counterparts. However competion road cycling is very different from riding by yourself for exercise or enjoying a recreational tour. Most cyclists do not understand the strageties and teams in pro cycling. Combine that with a sport that is pretty boring most of the time with just a few very exciting minutes and you have something that is hard to market to a TV audience. I really enjoy watching cycling on TV but I still find myself watching a Tivoed copy of the program and fast forwarding through much of each stage.


It seems like if one had to compete like a professional cyclist in order to understand and enjoy professional cycling and its strategy, there would be almost no cycling fans. Quite a few amateur riders in the U.S. compete, mostly in crit-style races. But very, very few are on professional-style teams where you have a leader and domestiques working against other teams with leaders and domestiques. That might happen occasionally at the Cat-1 or Cat-2 level, but most amateurs never get that far. 

Personally, I think that all you have to do to understand and appreciate professional cycling is go on semi-intense group rides with pacelines once or twice a week. You understand quickly why drafting is important, how difficult it can be to attack a group moving fast, and other basics of cycling strategy. Good group rides often end up in a competitive sprint at the end of the day anyway.

Cycling strategy is not rocket science, either. As Sherwin says, in the end it really is all about suffering and courage. You can understand those things, even if you don't race and even if you don't ride in groups, and if you understand those things, you'll appreciate the sport on the professional level.


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## cbbaron (Apr 18, 2003)

cyclodawg said:


> It seems like if one had to compete like a professional cyclist in order to understand and enjoy professional cycling and its strategy, there would be almost no cycling fans. Quite a few amateur riders in the U.S. compete, mostly in crit-style races. But very, very few are on professional-style teams where you have a leader and domestiques working against other teams with leaders and domestiques. That might happen occasionally at the Cat-1 or Cat-2 level, but most amateurs never get that far.
> 
> Personally, I think that all you have to do to understand and appreciate professional cycling is go on semi-intense group rides with pacelines once or twice a week. You understand quickly why drafting is important, how difficult it can be to attack a group moving fast, and other basics of cycling strategy. Good group rides often end up in a competitive sprint at the end of the day anyway.
> 
> Cycling strategy is not rocket science, either. As Sherwin says, in the end it really is all about suffering and courage. You can understand those things, even if you don't race and even if you don't ride in groups, and if you understand those things, you'll appreciate the sport on the professional level.


I'm not saying you can't understand it just that it is not intutitive to the average viewer. I have never competed in cycling but I really enjoy watching it. However for viewers in the US that do not have first hand expereince in cycle racing and do not have a history of watching this type of racing, marketing a cycle race on TV is difficult. Most viewers do not understand it. It takes some time to understand and appreciate the effort and strageties that go into a race. The coverage OLN has provided of the TDF I'm sure has increased the number of fans, I know I'm one that has been added in the last few years, but it is still going to be a small market. 
I'm just pointing out that there are plenty of cyclists in this nation but very few who can appreciate a race from experience. Baseball, soccer and even bowling have many more fans that have competed which is why thier market maybe larger despite being no more fun to watch.
Craig


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## mtbcraig (Jul 28, 2006)

" Heck, I remember when every freaking commercial was a Lincoln Navigator commercial. "

Do you mean the one where they played "Home on the Range" in Italian, or the older one with Mr. Scruff playing "Get A Move on"? I don't know about you, but in August I was thinking I could put my bikes in the back of that huge car. Then in Sept I was thinking I have lost it!

Craig


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## ziggurat22 (Jul 13, 2005)

I think a lot of people will be surprised just how many people don't understand how the sport works. If you poll most Americans, even cyclists who don't particularly follow professional racing, many still think that the guy who wins the TdF has to win every stage and have absolutley no clue as to where the team concept comes into play. The very fact that a vast, vast majority of people do not actually understand the sport, coupled with the fact that it is characterized as a "dirty" sport, puts cycling in a position in which it can never, ever truly succeed in America. Indeed, it took Lance Armstrong's monumental acheivement and backstory, and to a lesser extent, Greg Lemond, to even put cycling on the sporting map. If guys like that can't pull the sport firmly into the mainstream, then no one can. Indeed, most Americans do not even understand that there is even more than one important race on the professional calender. Family and many of my friends have no idea why I get so excited during the racing season. It just doesn't resonate.

This being said, I hope that OLN doesn't have to pull cycling coverage. It would be quite sad to see it go, but one can understand why it could go. However, if sources like cycling.tv can continue to provide coverage of the entire pro race calander on a pay-per-view/subscription basis for $40 a year like it does now, then that's good enough for me. It's obviously cheaper to watch races on OLN, but if that can't be, at least have a place where one can view cycling and take it from there.


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## team_sheepshead (Jan 17, 2003)

I fear the OP is right. It all comes down to advertising money, which is all based on TV ratings. This year, OLN's Tour de France ratings plummeted. Overall 0.33, down 58% from last year. Males 18-49, whom advertisers love, were 0.24, down 51%. That averages out to something like 207,000 people per broadcast. 207,000?!?! By comparison, the Wash. Redskins get 90,000 people to actually schlep to the stadium in all kinds of weather every game.

Conversely, the ratings jumped to 1.1 during the final stage into Paris, the "meaningless" stage, just because people wanted to watch Floyd win. Meanwhile, Game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals drew a 3.3 rating.

If I were running OLN, I'd pull the TV coverage and move it to the Web on a pay-to-view system...and force us to watch the damn commercials. Fire Phil and Paul and maybe hire Al and Bob to do commentary on top of the French broadcast feed from a rent-by-the-hour studio in New York.

With or without Floyd, stick a fork in it...unless Levi can muster all the prematurely bald men in the U.S. to watch him compete for GC next year.


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## mtbcraig (Jul 28, 2006)

*I don't know*

Seriously Cycling is the only sport I love. It took me a long time to find. ESPN was not enough - so thank you OLN

Now listen: How many people like / love NASCAR? Read boring..

People only like NASCAR for the crashes! Doping is crashing for the general public. There is no frickin way OLN will drop our tour. 

Now that is said, I seriously doubt the German network will really drop the Tour. Isn't publicity good for all money?

Craig


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

I'm surprised it's not been mentioned, but OLN likely made the decision to drop airing the TDF when Floyd released his hip condition. Doping or not, it's not likely he's coming back next year as a competitive player. Levi just doesn't have it in him to be a serious player and we all know Hincapie is no longer even in the equation. Thus, no Americans left to watch/route for in the Tour. Viewership will plummet in the USA; doesn't even take paying a consulting firm $10k to figure that one out.


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## mtbcraig (Jul 28, 2006)

So you are saying Team Disco with more money than God and the greatest coach in modern times hired Levi because they don't want a serious player? 

Ya viewers are with you Moab!


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## Fredke (Dec 10, 2004)

Sub said:


> The Ad did say "born from Jets" which is true, the engineers initially designed planes then turned to cars.


But the current Saab models have abandoned that heritage and are built on a Subaru chassis that has no roots in aviation.


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2006)

JohnHemlock said:


> What? B Grade? I have a 1999 Saab 9-3 with 105k miles that has never required servicing and still rides quite nicely. Almost like it was built from jets!
> 
> $3400 OBO


Well, the "B Grade Swedish Carmaker" is in fact General Motors since it owns SAAB.


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