# An American based Team using Cannondale, what effect will it have?



## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

I suppose it is an American based team using a product from a Canadian co. But oh well, can't have everything.

Do you think this will mean more U.S. and or Canadian cyclists will start riding Cannondale?

Where I live the roads are thick with Specialized. I mean they are everywhere. I see (1) Cannondale (usually mine) in (30) Specialized bikes.


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## 5DII (Aug 5, 2013)

what city are you in?


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Cannondale Bicycle Corporation is a U.S. corporation with it's HQ in CT. It is a subsidiary of Dorel Industries, which is Canadian.

Not sure it much matters because for all the U.S. major players the vast majority of production and assembly occurs in Asia.

Let's see - who owns 49% of Specialized?


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

In the Southwest


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

So there I was in the middle of a pack of Specialized cyclists. I knew / know more than half the guys. Someone starts slammin on Merida. And I mean they were really going after it.

One guy is the prez of a local race team. I calmly said you might want to search up who exactly owns that bike you're riding.
Actually I thought Merida had the controlling interest in Spesh. Thought Sinyard gave up control to them. I know he's still heavily involved and all.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Maybe, maybe not... Are there more groupies of the Slipstream team and of one of their riders than there was from the old Cannondale team? 

The factor that usually has the most influence on the ratio of bikes in one's area is the ratio of each brand dealers in that area... In english, it means if there are 1 Cannondale for 30 Specializeds in your area, it means there are probably 1 Cannondale dealer for 30 Specialized dealers (which might not be that far off over here, it seems every bike stores sell Specializeds and half the stores sell Treks). Note some dealers are bigger and move more bikes so... There are many reasons any of us pick one bike over another, groupie is just one minor aspect. For some, ride quality, weight, geometry, performance, price, particular specs, looks, country of origin and so on are much more important than whatever pro teams ride... but to many, what the closest dealer has and sells them is the deciding factor. Some are more picky.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

My first road bike was a 2.8 Cannondale crit frame. I liked it and stuck with the co.

Can't recall the marketing term but I know some companies of certain products try hard to be a young consumers first experience with a given product. I read that beer companies try hard to be a young drinkers 'first' beer.

Wish you hadn't mentioned 'groupies'. That young bad a** Slovak has more groupies than Elvis.....and we all know what bike he's now on. Guess I better get even more used to seeing Sinyard's red 'S' all over my home turf.


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## vanerven (Nov 4, 2008)

It's a (marketing) mistake of Cannondale to let Sagan go. The reality is of course that Mr. Tinkoff's pockets were probably a bit deeper. Nonetheless, Sagan was the perfect poster boy for Cannondale.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Paying Peter and his brother the 4.0 mil would have come back in spades. The last great marketing coup for Cannondale was when Cippo was on the bikes. 

I agree, letting Peter go was NOT a good idea.

I wonder how he's going to get along with a confirmed, no wait, a convicted doper. Peter is very outspoken about the subject.
His best quote ever was; "Losing weight always comes at the expense of something else. Look at Contador; he looks like a 10-year-old kid."

Whatever, Peter has 4 mil reasons to 'get along'.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

metoou2 said:


> Paying Peter and his brother the 4.0 mil would have come back in spades. The last great marketing coup for Cannondale was when Cippo was on the bikes.
> 
> I agree, letting Peter go was NOT a good idea.
> 
> ...


It wasn't as simple as that. The dealing with Sagan was not just between him and Cannondale, it was mostly between his agent and the manager of the italian based team (guys who are now out of jobs) and at the time the deal was done, the future of the Cannondale team wasn't certain/set in stones at all so Cannondale could not commit that kind of money and to commit to it for 3 years (that went down way before we got the news and at that time, Cannondale and Slipstream had not even thought about joining forces). Things were more clear/established at Saxo and, yeah, they were willing to pay him about as much as he wanted.

I don't think Sagan has a problem riding along with dopers, he was riding with Basso and they're friends, and the italian management of the old team had some dark clouds over their heads... of course, Saxo is loaded with dopers/former dopers with Riis, Julich, Yates, Contador, Basso, Kreuziger, Rogers... I think Sagan is just outspoken on the subject when media asks for it.

But, as was the case with Garmin (and Cervélo sales increased during that time), the Slipstream team attracts different fans. They're not loaded with superstars and are almost always seen as underdogs and there is something cool to root for underdogs, when a more normal guy beats the superstars... Obviously Sagan is hard to replace, he was already known as a once-in-a-generation freak on a bike as a kid, but personally, I'm looking forward to see how new kids on the team will mature and improve. Formolo is very young and talented. Joe Dombrowski is also a guy to watch, if the health issues he had the past two years are solved, he could become a great stage racer. Matej Mohoric is also a kid full of potential... Dan Martin has won two Monuments already and should be dangerous in the Ardennes again, he should just not focus on stage race overalls, he doesn't race to protect his GC placings, doesn't race with the next stages in mind... Less stars, but still plenty to follow and root for IMO.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Don't forget about Moreno Moser. That little sprite won the Strade Bianche. And if he can live up to his family's name he might become quite the star.

O.K. Dan, here's a test of you insider knowledge, when Peter puts his name out in the open market, (I suppose when his mngr does), does he let it be known that he is a package deal? Does he say, "If you want me on the team you have to give Juraj a job as well"?


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## CoffeeBean2 (Aug 6, 2005)

Dan Gerous said:


> Maybe, maybe not... Are there more groupies of the Slipstream team and of one of their riders than there was from the old Cannondale team?
> 
> The factor that usually has the most influence on the ratio of bikes in one's area is the ratio of each brand dealers in that area... In english, it means if there are 1 Cannondale for 30 Specializeds in your area, it means there are probably 1 Cannondale dealer for 30 Specialized dealers (which might not be that far off over here, it seems every bike stores sell Specializeds and half the stores sell Treks). Note some dealers are bigger and move more bikes so... There are many reasons any of us pick one bike over another, groupie is just one minor aspect. For some, ride quality, weight, geometry, performance, price, particular specs, looks, country of origin and so on are much more important than whatever pro teams ride... but to many, what the closest dealer has and sells them is the deciding factor. Some are more picky.


That's the way Boulder is - Specialized all over the place, with Trek not far behind. You see the occasional Felt or Cannondale. With Garmin based in Boulder and switching to Cannondale, it'll be interesting to see if there is any uptick in C'dales on the road.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

metoou2 said:


> Don't forget about Moreno Moser. That little sprite won the Strade Bianche. And if he can live up to his family's name he might become quite the star.
> 
> O.K. Dan, here's a test of you insider knowledge, when Peter puts his name out in the open market, (I suppose when his mngr does), does he let it be known that he is a package deal? Does he say, "If you want me on the team you have to give Juraj a job as well"?


Yes Moreno showed glimpses of the Moser genes in his first 1.5 pro years, not sure if his slump was due to health or motivation or something... It's hard to tell for now if he'll ever be as good as people expected.

I don't know for a fact but yeah, I guess it's a given and known thing, Peter comes with Juraj. Some star riders have some comparable requests for friends or helpers they really want when they negotiate. But Juraj costs only pocket change compared to Peter or even compared to the average WorldTour level cyclist, so I doubt it's much of a deal breaker for teams, for now. If the UCI goes through with their proposed smaller teams, such arrangements might not be as easy to accept as it takes a spot on the team that could be used for a more helpful domestique or a rider that can get some results. Not so bad with the number of riders teams have now but cut 10 guys (not sure of the exact numbers) and it becomes a problem.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

CoffeeBean2 said:


> That's the way Boulder is - Specialized all over the place, with Trek not far behind. You see the occasional Felt or Cannondale. With Garmin based in Boulder and switching to Cannondale, it'll be interesting to see if there is any uptick in C'dales on the road.


Same here in southeastern Massachusetts and Cape Cod. Specialized outnumbers and other brand by at least 5:1. Trek is a very distant second, and in fact, you could declare a tie among every other brand for second. Of course, Spesh also has 5 times the number of shops. A couple used to also carry C-dale. Not anymore. Gee, I wonder why. If a Spesh shop carries a second brand, it's always a lesser known brand like Ridley or BMC.


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## SwimCycle09 (Apr 22, 2014)

Same here in the Twin Cities area of MN. Its ridiculous how dominant Trek and Specialized are. They outnumber every other brand at least 4:1. Then Giant and QBP brand bikes are next most popular. The biggest chain of shops that are Specialized dealers around here, used to carry Cannondale but stopped 4-5 years ago due to supposed supply problems. When I wanted to look at Cannondales last spring It left me with literally 1 option close to where I live (which has been a great shop luckily) the other was about an hour away. Just hearing about these kind of distributions its obvious Trek, Specialized and Giant are the biggest 3 bike companies.


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## macca33 (Oct 24, 2012)

FWIW - I live in a rural area over here, with a population base of around 30,000 people. We have three shops spread between the two larger towns, carrying Cannondale, Specialized, Focus, then, Merida, Norco, LaPierre, then Giant, Felt and Fuji. We see a good spread of all these in our local bunches, as well as Cervelo, BMC and others.

Variety is the spice of life....

cheers


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

LaPierre are some sweet bikes. Can't believe I just 'said' that in a Cannondale Forum.


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## gus68 (Oct 19, 2010)

Cannondale has a strong presence in SE PA, southern Jersey. Cannondale is carried by a lot of the bigger LBS's and does a nice job getting involved with the local teams.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

You guys seem surprised by this. Trek and Specialized are the bully companies in the industry. They are the heaviest marketers in the industry too. For bike shops, if you want to carry their bikes, over 80-85% of your store has to contain their products. For Trek, that's Bontrager products; Specialized, well, they sell Specialized brand products. Shops know this is where the sales are at. Specialized is the new Trek. The true blue shops won't carry either brand because they want to give the customer a more diverse selection to choose from, and some that do carry these brands have a reputation that makes these to powerhouses give those shops what they want. Still, most Trek and Specialized shops, only carry Trek or Specialized.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

terbennett said:


> You guys seem surprised by this. Trek and Specialized are the bully companies in the industry. They are the heaviest marketers in the industry too. For bike shops, if you want to carry their bikes, over 80-85% of your store has to contain their products. For Trek, that's Bontrager products; Specialized, well, they sell Specialized brand products. Shops know this is where the sales are at. Specialized is the new Trek. The true blue shops won't carry either brand because they want to give the customer a more diverse selection to choose from, and some that do carry these brands have a reputation that makes these to powerhouses give those shops what they want. Still, most Trek and Specialized shops, only carry Trek or Specialized.


The largest LBS in the Houston area carries Trek AND Specialized, along with Surly and few others for BMX, commuter/urban, comfort, etc. If one of those won't work, they will arrange a new custom Parlee for you. They maintain a fairly large inventory of both Trek and Specialized, as well as the full line of accessories and clothing from both.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

terbennett said:


> You guys seem surprised by this. Trek and Specialized are the bully companies in the industry.


Not surprised at all. TREK started the 'concept stores' years back. And we all know Specialized will sue you for about anything if they feel infringed upon. Most veteran cyclist have read all that. 

Cannondale Reps work only for Cannondale, they aren't independent reps selling lines from J & B, Seattle Bike Supply, Hans Johnson (have ya heard of that one?) So with the green machine behind them it would seem they would get out there, bloody some knuckles and try like heck to open more Cannondale dealerships.

But yes, point taken, Sinyard has bullying down to a science. That dude can spread some hate. Ever read the letters he releases to the industry? And what a frickin hypocrite. He was slammin Dorel for selling a line of bikes (NOT Cannondale) to big box stores while conveniently forgetting he had done the same in his recent past. 

For the period when TREK's image was taking a hit due to that nasty case of 'yellow fever' they contracted from one of their disgraced former riders and when Dopadore was in 'time out' for eating some tainted beef, Cannondale should have ridden that SAGAN gravy train to the BANK! Now he is gone.................oh well.


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## Chainstay (Mar 13, 2004)

Do you mean Peter Second?


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## Horze (Mar 12, 2013)

I am frankly a little astonished that more Euro teams don't take the Cannondale brand more seriously.

I would also say Cannondale has a more unique brand ID than say some other ones out there..


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Do you live in the EU?


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