# Trainer Climbing Simulation



## kmunny19 (Aug 13, 2008)

Any good advice on how to best simulate climbing, both seated and standing, while on a trainer? 

I've tried shifting to a harder gear, simulating the cadence/HR combo of my typical real life hill repeats. This seems to work OK while seated, but still doesn't feel quite right (I know, its a trainer, its not going to feel quite right.) I feel more use of my inner quad muscles than on the road, and less of my calf muscles. I know its fine to work the muscles this way, but it is not well matched to my road riding. 

As far as standing, I've had to shift to a way higher gear with a much lower cadence than I would use when standing on road, just to keep from feeling like I was shifting too much side to side on the trainer. This works my calves and core muscles similarly to on road, but again, is not matched reasonably to my on road cadence, and its tough to get my HR to a high enough level.

This is my 3rd winter on a trainer (the same one), and the second one on this bike, but the first time I've noticed this. However, I feel I'm probably just more aware of the nuances, rather than notably changing my riding style. I want to get my trainer riding to match my road, as my road riding has continually improved, both in perception, and timed event results.

Thanks.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

Did you put a riser under your front wheel to simulate a 7% 10% 12% grade?

If you do the axle to axle rise/run thing, you can get the grade you are inclined at.

I stack 2 CycleOps risers to get 12% grade on my road bike.


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## Ray_from_SA (Jun 15, 2005)

I don't see you mention what trainer you're using. Personally, I don't see how you can simulate climbing out of the saddle on your typical indoor trainer as you can't rock the bike.

Using a riser to raise the front of the bike to the desired angle for seated climbs works well but unless you have something like a Rock and Roll, you'll struggle to even get close to a out of the saddle effort.


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## DM.Aelis (Jun 19, 2007)

Can someone explain "climbing simulation" to me?

The idea of putting a block under your wheel frankly seems foolish.

Watts/kg is what matters for climbing. Threshold intervals are threshold intervals; I can't see how you would benefit from sticking your front wheel up and pretending like it is anything like really climbing.

to each his own I guess...


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

Best climbing simulation? Go outside and ride your bike! 

Failing that, what Aelis said.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

The standing thing is always a problem with a trainer. You just can't put out the same force at high cadence as you do on the road, without either damaging the bike or tipping over. The only solution I know of is to use a completely different kind of stationary trainer. I have a spin bike. I can stand up, crank up the resistance, and thrash around to my heart's content without that thing rocking in the slightest. Not everyone's cup of tea, and it doesn't perfectly duplicate the road bike position (though it's close), but I've found it a worthwhile investment.


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## Hula Hoop (Feb 4, 2009)

I'm pretty sure just changing the angle of the bike would be meaningless on
a trainer, as well as bringing into play fit issues. The static points, seat
angle, bar higth, etc would be all wrong over the long haul. I have a rock n roll,
and having the ability to rock naturally (almost) side to side helps me feel more stable
out of the saddle. But you can never fully simulate Mother Earth.


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## biketom5 (Oct 24, 2010)

Last year I purchased a Computrainer that can simulate up to 15% grades. It's absolutely not the same experience as outdoors, but you will want to stand at times!


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## PissedOffCil (Jan 3, 2008)

The point of raising the front wheel is to simulate the position you naturally adopt when climbing. When you climb a hill you will naturally adopt a different position, which in turn works different muscles (or the same muscles in a different way). You get the exact same effect by rising your front wheel, you get used to your natural climbing position and your body adapts to it.


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## kmunny19 (Aug 13, 2008)

JCavilia said:


> The standing thing is always a problem with a trainer. You just can't put out the same force at high cadence as you do on the road, without either damaging the bike or tipping over.


to a large extent this is my experience. I have looked at the rock and roll by KK and in theory it would solve my problems...to the unfortunate tune of $500 or more. I wish outdoor riding was an option, but I have pretty strict time scheduled for riding, and the gear to put on take off, prep, etc to ride in WI just doesn't leave enough actual quality ride time, in my opinion. I really don't mind being on the trainer, I just want to do it the best I can.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

What kind of trainer are you using now?

I understand the principle of raising the front wheel, but I've never felt like the muscle groups were all that different.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

Hula Hoop said:


> I'm pretty sure just changing the angle of the bike would be meaningless on a trainer, as well as bringing into play fit issues. The static points, seat angle, bar higth, etc would be all wrong over the long haul.


Actually that's the whole point. Bike fit/geometry changes when you lean it back 12%.

Does it change enough to change muscular recruitment enough to justify hill-specific trainer workouts? I think it's a function of how much you are depending on indoor training, and how soon before the target hill climb.

I get the arguments about rocking the bike, but that doesn't mean that out-of-saddle training on a stationary wouldn't help train those specific muscles (upper as well as lower body) engaged by actual out-of-saddle climbing.

There's a basic concept that the closer you can simulate outdoor riding, the better, right? Raising your front wheel is a very inexpensive way of doing that.


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## kmunny19 (Aug 13, 2008)

spade2you said:


> What kind of trainer are you using now?
> 
> I understand the principle of raising the front wheel, but I've never felt like the muscle groups were all that different.


cycleops mag. nothing fancy, probably fairly standard trainer. I've felt, when raising the front wheel, that it was pretty much the same ride but just pointed up, but the last time I tried it was more than a year ago. Perhaps I'll feel something different having had more overall time in since then.


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## PissedOffCil (Jan 3, 2008)

Raising the wheel won'T make it harder, it's only a simulation for the positioning.

Personally, on a 1UP USA, I get very realisitc feel of the road. By putting a 50/16 ratio or so I can do force workouts at 70 RPM at FTP. I suspect a lighter freeweight will not get the same feel at all.


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## redliner (Oct 21, 2004)

Buy a set of rollers, screw them to a solid base, adjust the incline to whatever steepness you want.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

DM.Aelis said:


> Can someone explain "climbing simulation" to me?
> 
> The idea of putting a block under your wheel frankly seems foolish.
> 
> ...


It's not like real climbing, but it changes the angle of you to your bike like a hill. So, you use your muscles a little differently. Now, I only have my perception and the "Climbing" DVD's from CTS to support this. If it's just a placebo affect making me think I can climb better, I'll take whatever I can get on those hills. At 20 min into an 8% grade and you are only half way, one starts looking for deer or coyotes to grab onto to help get up the hill.

If you are big out of the saddle climber, the Kurt Kenitic Rock and Roll trainer could be for you. However you have to get past the $650 price tag. At that price, a good set of rollers is a consideration too.


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## louise (May 24, 2010)

DM.Aelis said:


> Can someone explain "climbing simulation" to me?
> 
> The idea of putting a block under your wheel frankly seems foolish.
> 
> ...


You can't and it isn't.


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