# Why Do Pros Use 2 Bottle Cages?



## Lelandjt

A bottle lasts, what, an hour? Do they not have access to fresh bottles at least once an hour? Isn't an extra cage more weight and less aero? A recent bike check of a pro's aero road bike had me thinking. It's not just common, it's every bike. I've never had a second cage on a bike.


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## tlg

Lelandjt said:


> A bottle lasts, what, an hour? Do they not have access to fresh bottles at least once an hour?


No. If you're in a break away group you surely don't want to go back to a team car (if there is one). On a mountain stage you could be no where near your team car.




> Isn't an extra cage more weight and less aero? A recent bike check of a pro's aero road bike had me thinking. It's not just common, it's every bike.


If every bike has them, there's no aero penalty. Weight is irrelevant. Most riders are adding weight to meet the minimum bike weight.



> I've never had a second cage on a bike.


Wow, you must not do long rides in the heat. 
It was 95° last night and rode 45mi. One bottle would be a death sentence.


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## PJay

This is a good question.

For the most part, the answer is that some of the riders are domestiques, and need to be carrying water for the one or two riders who are identified to be shooting for something big that day, or shooting for something big, generally.

The domestiques will carry more than two bottles - they will get 4 or 5 from a team car at a time, then ride back up and distribute them to team members, incl. the favored one or two guys.

As far as an "aero" bike, I don't quite see why you would need two bottles cages for a time trial that will be under one hour. I will have to remember that when the time trials come up.


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## den bakker

PJay said:


> This is a good question.
> 
> For the most part, the answer is that some of the riders are domestiques, and need to be carrying water for the one or two riders who are identified to be shooting for something big that day, or shooting for something big, generally.
> 
> The domestiques will carry more than two bottles - they will get 4 or 5 from a team car at a time, then ride back up and distribute them to team members, incl. the favored one or two guys.
> 
> As far as an "aero" bike, I don't quite see why you would need two bottles cages for a time trial that will be under one hour. I will have to remember that when the time trials come up.


4-5 bottles? Cavendish might disagree


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## PJay

From what I could tell, it looked like Cav had two water bottle cages on the bike he rode to victory today.

I cannot figure that out. Surely he can get by with one bottle of water, and bum one off of another rider along the way as needed.

There is the weight minimum, and it seems like Cav would definitely want to add weight to stiffen he bike when the bike needs to be brought up to the minimum weight.


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## BCSaltchucker

the reality is that aerodynamics in (non time trial) road races are a trivial concern. Possibly played up merely to help sponsors sell bikes to the rest of us. One thing is for sure: hydration is a thousand times more important, and those road races are not like cat 4 40km races 

but also, if the riders are going for a sprint win, they can have all the bottles they want, as aero ain't an issue if you're sucking wheel till 200m to go. And they ditch all the bottles with a km or 3 to go anyways


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## Handbrake

BCSaltchucker said:


> the reality is that aerodynamics in (non time trial) road races are a trivial concern. Possibly played up merely to help sponsors sell bikes to the rest of us.


Same for stiffness. Cav isn't going to gain anything at all from a water bottle cage's worth of wrap on his frame.


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## den bakker

PJay said:


> From what I could tell, it looked like Cav had two water bottle cages on the bike he rode to victory today.
> 
> I cannot figure that out. Surely he can get by with one bottle of water, and bum one off of another rider along the way as needed.
> 
> There is the weight minimum, and it seems like Cav would definitely want to add weight to stiffen he bike when the bike needs to be brought up to the minimum weight.


Let me help out your memory here: You wrote: "
The domestiques will carry more than two bottles - they will get 4 or 5 from a team car at a time, then ride back up and distribute them to team members, incl. the favored one or two guys." 
That picture is of Cavendish doing team support carrying something like a dozen bottles back.


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## Migen21

Without context to go along with that picture, you have no idea what is going on and why. 

Maybe it was a day where sprinters were out of the picture, and Cav was helping out the climbers?


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## Cinelli 82220

Many riders have two different bottles, one plain water, the other for nutrition.
You often see bottles clearly labelled with the riders' names and the contents of the bottle.
And riders drop their bottles sometimes, nice to have a spare.


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## Cinelli 82220

Migen21 said:


> Maybe it was a day where sprinters were out of the picture, and Cav was helping out the climbers?


Cav did bottle duty almost every day of that Tour, he was a very hard team worker.
There are lots of pics like that on various days.


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## KoroninK

A lot of teams and riders have two bottle cages and bottles not just the domestiques. Here's a picture of Valverde that shows his bike with two bottles. As someone else said one is probably just water while the other one is mixed with nutrition/electrolights something. The first two show Valverde and one other rider each with two bottles, the 3rd picture shows 2 bottles on his bike before the start of a stage of this year's Giro.


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## den bakker

Migen21 said:


> Without context to go along with that picture, you have no idea what is going on and why.
> 
> Maybe it was a day where sprinters were out of the picture, and Cav was helping out the climbers?


no I know well what was going on. 
So to go back to what I responded to originally: 4-5 bottles. That is a hell of a lot more bottles than 4-5 to make Cavendish look like Ullrich in February shape. Picked up at the team car and about to be distributed to the team. Yes he was in the role of water carrier that day.


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## JSR

If the rainbow jersey tells me to take two, I'm taking two. Just sayin.


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## bvber

PJay said:


> From what I could tell, it looked like Cav had two water bottle cages on the bike he rode to victory today.
> 
> I cannot figure that out. Surely he can get by with one bottle of water, and bum one off of another rider along the way as needed.
> 
> There is the weight minimum, and it seems like Cav would definitely want to add weight to stiffen he bike when the bike needs to be brought up to the minimum weight.





Handbrake said:


> Same for stiffness. Cav isn't going to gain anything at all from a water bottle cage's worth of wrap on his frame.





den bakker said:


> 4-5 bottles? Cavendish might disagree


That's Cav 10 years after retirement.


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## dgturc83

This is an old picture, but I've noticed in this tour as well that Thomas Voeckler only uses one water bottle.


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## PJay

On two different stages, Cav wins by the tiniest of margin after riding over a hundred miles.

Watching his sprints from overhead, I cannot believe that he is nonchalant about aerodynamics and bike stiffness. I cannot believe his bike holds together.


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## Cinelli 82220

He is by no means nonchalant, he projects a casual attitude but is meticulous about his equipment and training.


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## Lelandjt

dgturc83 said:


> View attachment 315001
> 
> 
> This is an old picture, but I've noticed in this tour as well that Thomas Voeckler only uses one water bottle.


Okay, so just me and Voeckler, eh?


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## davidka

BCSaltchucker said:


> the reality is that aerodynamics in (non time trial) road races are a trivial concern. Possibly played up merely to help sponsors sell bikes to the rest of us. One thing is for sure: hydration is a thousand times more important, and those road races are not like cat 4 40km races
> 
> but also, if the riders are going for a sprint win, they can have all the bottles they want, as aero ain't an issue if you're sucking wheel till 200m to go. And they ditch all the bottles with a km or 3 to go anyways


Water and aerodynamics are separate concerns but if you think aerodynamics are trivial in any road race, you are fooling yourself. Notice all the racers sweating through their skin suits and aero helmets on these hot days. If aero didn't matter to them, surely they'd pick a more comfortable conventional kit & helmet, both of which are offered by all of the equipment makers.

Hint: While aerodynamics certainly counts at 40mph in the last 200m, what really counts is all the energy it saves over the 4-6 hours leading up to said sprint.

They carry 2x cages because it lessens the number of times they need to replenish by half, saving everyone a bunch of work.


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## KoroninK

Lelandjt said:


> Okay, so just me and Valverde eh?


LOL, not sure if you're asking for pics of anyone else or not. But this is an old picture of Contador and Valverde, and you can see both have 2 water bottles. As they both still use today.


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## Fredrico

PJay said:


> From what I could tell, it looked like Cav had two water bottle cages on the bike he rode to victory today.
> 
> I cannot figure that out. Surely he can get by with one bottle of water, and bum one off of another rider along the way as needed.
> 
> There is the weight minimum, and it seems like Cav would definitely want to add weight to stiffen he bike when the bike needs to be brought up to the minimum weight.


Well, the added weight is down near the BB. It will lower the center of gravity and stabilize the ride. John Cobb did wind tunnel tests with Lance and found the water bottle on the down tube directs the flow of air to the sides, so another water bottle on the seat tube adds insignificant wind resistance.

Also, notice how riders throw their water bottles off to the side in the last few km? That's when a few ounces of weight might make a difference.


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## Lelandjt

KoroninK said:


> LOL, not sure if you're asking for pics of anyone else or not. But this is an old picture of Contador and Valverde, and you can see both have 2 water bottles. As they both still use today.
> View attachment 315007


I meant Voeckler. That's who's in the photo I quoted.


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## Fredrico

Cinelli 82220 said:


> He is by no means nonchalant, he projects a casual attitude but is meticulous about his equipment and training.


It shows. He keeps repeating the same moves, like clockwork. He's always perfectly positioned at the front and waits until the bitter end to do his move. He never fails! What a bore. :ihih:


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## serious

Worrying about the weight and aerodynamics of a 15g bottle cage is absurd, even for the worst weight weenie out there.


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## Lallement

You mean it is not for the battery for the hidden motor?


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## Cinelli 82220

Cav ditched the Rotor cranks for Dura Ace a few days ago. He also switched from the DT hubs on his wheels to Chris King hubs. I haven't seen him use the Enve carbon hubs yet. 

He didn't like the Specialzed ones either when he was on Etixx/QS. He lost his chain in a couple of sprints on the Specialized crankset.


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## KoroninK

Lelandjt said:


> I meant Voeckler. That's who's in the photo I quoted.


 I wasn't sure if you were wanting pics of any other rider where you could see the water bottles or not. But it does seem Voeckler is one of the few who only has 1 water bottle.


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## MaxKatt

Fredrico said:


> Well, the added weight is down near the BB. It will lower the center of gravity and stabilize the ride. John Cobb did wind tunnel tests with Lance and found the water bottle on the down tube directs the flow of air to the sides, so another water bottle on the seat tube adds insignificant wind resistance.
> 
> Also, notice how riders throw their water bottles off to the side in the last few km? That's when a few ounces of weight might make a difference.


Could be strategic weighting at times. Just saw some TDF trivia this week that some riders back in the day would take a water bottle as the crested a summit. Bottles actually filled with lead.


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## davidka

MaxKatt said:


> Could be strategic weighting at times. Just saw some TDF trivia this week that some riders back in the day would take a water bottle as the crested a summit. Bottles actually filled with lead.


Doubtful this is true. There would be many instances of bottle cages and bolts failing, and stories of fans finding lead-shot filled bottles on the side of the road. Your post is the first time I've ever heard of this in 30 years of following pro cycling.


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## steelbikerider

Look here with footnotes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Robic

It's an old story. I've read where riders were scrambling after a crash to get the weighted bottles back so they wouldn't be discovered.


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## Lelandjt

^Even just full of water 2 large bottles would help a spindly climber go faster on a non-technical downhill. Something I never thought of before.


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## MaxKatt

Lelandjt said:


> ^Even just full of water 2 large bottles would help a spindly climber go faster on a non-technical downhill. Something I never thought of before.


And conversely, while I've never looked for a pattern, when I see all those bottles being ejected to the side of the road...is any of that guys trying to lighten the load for a coming stretch?


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## dgturc83

MaxKatt said:


> And conversely, while I've never looked for a pattern, when I see all those bottles being ejected to the side of the road...is any of that guys trying to lighten the load for a coming stretch?


Yes if you watch a final climb or on the sprint finishes you'll notice no one is carrying any bottles. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ogre

As I recall, Michael Rasmussen in his heyday insisted on his Colnagos only having one set of water bottle bosses. A quick google of pics confirmed. Back then I think they were still unable to get below the UCI weight minimum.

View attachment 315071


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## TmB123

What has happened to the water bottle vests OGE / OBE was using over the last season or so to bring bottles from the team car? Can't remember seeing them this year, actually thought a lot of teams would have been using that idea by now.


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## Handbrake

Today's Cage Report: 

All 6 riders in the front group were equipped with 2 bottle cages. Coincidence? I think no.


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## den bakker

TmB123 said:


> What has happened to the water bottle vests OGE / OBE was using over the last season or so to bring bottles from the team car? Can't remember seeing them this year, actually thought a lot of teams would have been using that idea by now.
> 
> View attachment 315092


only 6? probably why it did not catch on. Cannot even feed the team in one go.


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## TmB123

den bakker said:


> only 6? probably why it did not catch on. Cannot even feed the team in one go.


I guess that the ease was the mechanic pre loads it and just hands it out the car. They stuffed them in the front as well. Tinkoff tried it as well


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## Lelandjt

Handbrake said:


> Today's Cage Report:
> 
> All 6 riders in the front group were equipped with 2 bottle cages. Coincidence? I think no.


No surprise considering neither Rasmussen nor Voeckler were in the group. So far in this thread those are the only two riders who have come up as preferring a single bottle. Besides me of course. I also missed the break today. Too much partying during the rest day.

Also, those bottle vests are cool. Seems like a good system.


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## velodog

11 bottles

Video: Watch rider take on 11 bottles in just 30 secs on Tour - Sticky Bottle


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## PJay

ogre said:


> As I recall, Michael Rasmussen in his heyday insisted on his Colnagos only having one set of water bottle bosses. A quick google of pics confirmed. Back then I think they were still unable to get below the UCI weight minimum.
> 
> View attachment 315071


--Not so sure - I think they have been able to get below UCI weight limit for decades.


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## MMsRepBike

Thomas Voeckler?s BH Ultralight EVO - BikeRadar












> According to Direct Energie mechanic Arnaud Labbe, there are several details specific to Voeckler. The most obvious is the installation of only one water bottle cage. Voeckler never uses two. It’s a personal preference and one that is shared by very few in the peloton.


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## velodog

"Jacques Anquetil, five-time winner of the Tour de France, used to take his water bottle out of its holder before every climb and stick it in the back pocket of his jersey. Ab Geldermans, his Dutch lieutenant, watched him do that for years, until finally he couldn't stand it any more and asked him why. And Anquetil explained.


A rider, said Anquetil, is made up of two parts, a person and a bike. The bike, of course, is the instrument the person uses to go faster, but it's weight also slows him down. That really counts when the going gets tough, and in climbing the thing is to make sure the bike is as light as possible. A good way to do that is: take the bidon out of its holder.


So, at the start of every climb, Anquetil moved his water bottle from its holder to his back pocket. Clear enough."




- Tim Krabbé. From his book, The Rider.


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