# Pitbull pedal packaging design



## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Quick question for everyone. This is our first design for our packaging. It's recycled cardboard and simple black and white identification labeling. Keeps it simple and inexpensive. Thumbs up or thumbs down? Or if anyone has any constructive suggestions we are open to that as well.


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## BubbaGump (Feb 17, 2015)

I feel like we've been through this before, and no, you are not open to constructive criticism. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

meh. bland and uninteresting, but most people probably don't buy hardware based on the aesthetics of packaging.

the dog looks demonic...


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

Someone's been using Pitbull pedal already. This picture was taken over the weekend.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

It's a fine design for your product. Good graphic for your design, bringing to mind "strong grip".

A red box would pop more on screen, and in a display case. I would think red is not meaningfully more expensive, and will still work with the black and white design you have for the labels.

Make sure your liability insurance is paid up, and your business is set up in a way that shields you from personal liability. A new pedal will be open to consumer lawsuits in a way pedals that are established products are not. That spindle puts a hole in someone in a way that no other pedal on the market would have, you'll have some 'splaining to do.

I do suggest that you have someone put a thousand miles on the pedal with your final cleat design. More would be better, more people, more miles. Because a few bad reviews early on for wearing out quickly will kill your sales. Such as they might be.

Although I think your pedal design is crap to the point I would short your business if I could, I might be wrong, and I do hope you find success. Or at least don't lose your shirt.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> I do suggest that you have someone put a thousand miles on the pedal with your final cleat design.


Highly UN-likely

Three weeks ago...


Pitbull Pedal said:


> Some good news, I just stopped by our local bike shop and I do believe that I have one of the employees to make a non-biased video with us on Sunday at some point. If all goes well we will be able to share the video early in the week.


Still nothing. You'd think it'd be easy to find a highly experienced rider to test out a new product. But I guess it's easier just to work on pretty packaging.


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## xxl (Mar 19, 2002)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> It's a fine design for your product. Good graphic for your design, bringing to mind "strong grip".
> 
> A red box would pop more on screen, and in a display case. I would think red is not meaningfully more expensive, and will still work with the black and white design you have for the labels....


Going with that, how about incorporating a depiction of dog's teeth biting down on the sides of the box?--reinforces the whole "pitbull mouth" idea.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

xxl said:


> Going with that, how about incorporating a depiction of dog's teeth biting down on the sides of the box?--reinforces the whole "pitbull mouth" idea.


Nice idea, but the more complicated the label the easier it is to screw up application. Crooked or wrinkled labels create a very bad product impression before even seeing the product.



tlg said:


> Highly UN-likely
> 
> Three weeks ago...
> 
> ...


It would be EASY to set up a test by the RBR staff, or other road bike websites. Contact them, send them the pedal. One would think that someone with full confidence would go that route, right?

Magazines too, but the lead time there is huge for publication. I'd go online, and to places more active than RBR, tbh.


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## BCSaltchucker (Jul 20, 2011)

packaging is such a waste of resources. I curse all those manufacturers that don't just drop their items in a ziplock with a sticker on it. So I end up with mountains of packaging I have to haul to the dump just so they can have their little 'marketing coup / unboxing experience.' I just want the product to be inherently great, not presented to me with excessive trees cut down and blister plastics. 

Meanwhile econazis are freaking out over pllastic grocery bags which are instead infinitely useful, minimal and multi reusable - it's all wrong. We should instead be furious at the excessive packaging industry, like the box for these Spambull pedals


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## azpeterb (Jun 1, 2006)

If you did a solid black design, you could say it's "none more black". Worked for Spinal Tap.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

BCSaltchucker said:


> packaging is such a waste of resources. I curse all those manufacturers that don't just drop their items in a ziplock with a sticker on it.


I am with you in general. 

But stocking things in baggies in the back room would be a PITA, because baggies don't stack. A small box made from recycled material and sealed with stickers is a pretty good option, as far as these things go.


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## BCSaltchucker (Jul 20, 2011)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> I am with you in general.
> 
> But stocking things in baggies in the back room would be a PITA, because baggies don't stack. A small box made from recycled material and sealed with stickers is a pretty good option, as far as these things go.


countless products are stocked and displayed on horiz rods, packed inside bags with the little cardboard stapled to the top - see any bike shop, candy store, auto parts, etc.

Cardboard recycling isn't nearly efficient as it is assumed to be. Using recycled paper uses 40% less than using virgin wood pulp, but you're still using 60% as much energy and a certain amount of virgin forest wood too. Not that I am a keen environmentalist but I dislike having to handle all the cardboard at my end as a consumer and small biz owner.


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## dir-t (Oct 14, 2005)

The last time I bought brake pads from my LBS they just handed them to me. "We buy these in bulk for repairs". I thought that was pretty cool.

The more I hear about microplastics and their associated issues the better I become at remembering my reusable fabric shopping bags.


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

I dunno....a picture of a rabid dog biting down isn't the graphic that would make me buy a pedal that's supposed to clamp to my foot. Have you considered calling them "Bear Trap Pedals" instead?

_..plus les choses changent....._


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

dir-t said:


> The last time I bought brake pads from my LBS they just handed them to me. "We buy these in bulk for repairs". I thought that was pretty cool.
> 
> The more I hear about microplastics and their associated issues the better I become at remembering my reusable fabric shopping bags.


We have cut our single use plastics to near zero. Packaging remains a struggle. We have cut it by half easily but we still buy more things than I’d like packed in plastic in some way. Re-usable plastics are far more eco-friendly than single use paper. 

As for the packaging for Pitbull Pedals I don’t much care and I don’t think that look will help or hurt potential sales. The product itself will attend to that. I am not a fan of using this forum to promote products or for retail sales by merchants. Having opinions and discussions and debate about products? Oh absolutely, that’s what we are here for! But trolling to get exposure is bad form.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

BCSaltchucker said:


> countless products are stocked and displayed on horiz rods, packed inside bags with the little cardboard stapled to the top - see any bike shop, candy store, auto parts, etc.
> 
> Cardboard recycling isn't nearly efficient as it is assumed to be. Using recycled paper uses 40% less than using virgin wood pulp, but you're still using 60% as much energy and a certain amount of virgin forest wood too. Not that I am a keen environmentalist but I dislike having to handle all the cardboard at my end as a consumer and small biz owner.


I have seen some back rooms at LBSs, and I have yet to see one that has rods for storage. Not saying they don't exist, just that every one I have seen is shelves and aisles, often with the shelves accessible from either side. The bagged items in the back are in boxes on those shelves, often boxes they were shipped in. 

Now, what happens if someone ships the pedals in a bag? To a retail customer? Lots more packaging, a box and filler to keep things from moving during shipping. Shipping pre-boxed pedals requires less additional packaging for shipping at the retail level.

Bagged pedals would also bang against each other during shipping (if they were literally bagged wth no other material), leading to returns for "scratched" finishes, if not actual chips or other damage during shipping. You know people would do that, heck I might wonder if they were returned and resold if I saw scratched up product. What's the eco cost of such returns? Not zero.

I did not say the packaging was great, just pretty good as far as these things go. I've seen worse.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

Deleted.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

BubbaGump said:


> I feel like we've been through this before, and no, you are not open to constructive criticism.


I really do feel that we are but I cannot change the entire design because of a few peoples thoughts.



Oxtox said:


> meh. bland and uninteresting, but most people probably don't buy hardware based on the aesthetics of packaging.
> the dog looks demonic...


We feel that our product has been simplified so much and is so easy to use we are sticking with the same theory on the packaging to keep costs as low as we possibly can. We are trying to use recycled materials in the boxing. I do not feel the dog is demonic looking, its smiling when I look at the picture.




bvber said:


> Someone's been using Pitbull pedal already. This picture was taken over the weekend.


Hysterical. I love it.



QuiQuaeQuod said:


> It's a fine design for your product. Good graphic for your design, bringing to mind "strong grip".
> A red box would pop more on screen, and in a display case. I would think red is not meaningfully more expensive, and will still work with the black and white design you have for the labels.
> Make sure your liability insurance is paid up, and your business is set up in a way that shields you from personal liability. A new pedal will be open to consumer lawsuits in a way pedals that are established products are not. That spindle puts a hole in someone in a way that no other pedal on the market would have, you'll have some 'splaining to do.
> I do suggest that you have someone put a thousand miles on the pedal with your final cleat design. More would be better, more people, more miles. Because a few bad reviews early on for wearing out quickly will kill your sales. Such as they might be.
> Although I think your pedal design is crap to the point I would short your business if I could, I might be wrong, and I do hope you find success. Or at least don't lose your shirt.


I appreciate the thoughts on colors, I'm going to get my graphics guy to change the coloring on the boxes over to red to see what it looks like. When we get into the legal stuff I'm going straight to Morgan & Morgan and asking for details on writing up liability issues.



tlg said:


> Highly UN-likely
> 
> Three weeks ago...
> 
> ...


We did find a local rider, his name is Ian. He had a medical emergency in his family and we haven't been able to reschedule yet. It did kind of get past me.




xxl said:


> Going with that, how about incorporating a depiction of dog's teeth biting down on the sides of the box?--reinforces the whole "pitbull mouth" idea.


That is a good idea, lets see if anyone else agrees with your thought. We're just trying to keep it simple.



QuiQuaeQuod said:


> Nice idea, but the more complicated the label the easier it is to screw up application. Crooked or wrinkled labels create a very bad product impression before even seeing the product.
> It would be EASY to set up a test by the RBR staff, or other road bike websites. Contact them, send them the pedal. One would think that someone with full confidence would go that route, right?
> Magazines too, but the lead time there is huge for publication. I'd go online, and to places more active than RBR, tbh.


I'm not sure if you've seen on the website but we did get a review from Gear Junkie. Once we have a small quantity of pedals made in the initial run we are going to be sending out pedals to people throughout the country. I expect only good reviews as they do work exactly as I have said.



BCSaltchucker said:


> packaging is such a waste of resources. I curse all those manufacturers that don't just drop their items in a ziplock with a sticker on it. So I end up with mountains of packaging I have to haul to the dump just so they can have their little 'marketing coup / unboxing experience.' I just want the product to be inherently great, not presented to me with excessive trees cut down and blister plastics.
> Meanwhile econazis are freaking out over pllastic grocery bags which are instead infinitely useful, minimal and multi reusable - it's all wrong. We should instead be furious at the excessive packaging industry, like the box for these Spambull pedals


We agree that is why we're trying to keep it simple.




azpeterb said:


> If you did a solid black design, you could say it's "none more black". Worked for Spinal Tap.


I've not seen the movie.



dir-t said:


> The last time I bought brake pads from my LBS they just handed them to me. "We buy these in bulk for repairs". I thought that was pretty cool.
> The more I hear about microplastics and their associated issues the better I become at remembering my reusable fabric shopping bags.


We are going to make every effort to use recycled materials



No Time Toulouse said:


> I dunno....a picture of a rabid dog biting down isn't the graphic that would make me buy a pedal that's supposed to clamp to my foot. Have you considered calling them "Bear Trap Pedals" instead?
> _..plus les choses changent....._


We didn't put any foam around its mouth so hopefully nobody else would think that way. Also we will be giving away a handheld display to any stores that would accept the product so people could work the mechanism by hand and see the quality of the system.




PBL450 said:


> We have cut our single use plastics to near zero. Packaging remains a struggle. We have cut it by half easily but we still buy more things than I’d like packed in plastic in some way. Re-usable plastics are far more eco-friendly than single use paper.
> As for the packaging for Pitbull Pedals I don’t much care and I don’t think that look will help or hurt potential sales. The product itself will attend to that. I am not a fan of using this forum to promote products or for retail sales by merchants. Having opinions and discussions and debate about products? Oh absolutely, that’s what we are here for! But trolling to get exposure is bad form.


This is totally just having an open discussion with a group of people that I do not know. Just looking for input positive/negative and I try to respond to the best of my ability.




QuiQuaeQuod said:


> I have seen some back rooms at LBSs, and I have yet to see one that has rods for storage. Not saying they don't exist, just that every one I have seen is shelves and aisles, often with the shelves accessible from either side. The bagged items in the back are in boxes on those shelves, often boxes they were shipped in.
> Now, what happens if someone ships the pedals in a bag? To a retail customer? Lots more packaging, a box and filler to keep things from moving during shipping. Shipping pre-boxed pedals requires less additional packaging for shipping at the retail level.
> 
> Bagged pedals would also bang against each other during shipping (if they were literally bagged wth no other material), leading to returns for "scratched" finishes, if not actual chips or other damage during shipping. You know people would do that, heck I might wonder if they were returned and resold if I saw scratched up product. What's the eco cost of such returns? Not zero.
> I did not say the packaging was great, just pretty good as far as these things go. I've seen worse.


I'm choosing to take that as its an OK on the packaging.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I really do feel that we are but I cannot change the entire design because of a few peoples thoughts.


A 'few'? lolololol You can't be serious. 




> We did find a local rider, his name is Ian. He had a medical emergency in his family and we haven't been able to reschedule yet. It did kind of get past me.


And you couldn't find anyone else


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> A 'few'? lolololol You can't be serious.
> And you couldn't find anyone else


I do mean a few peoples thoughts as we are basically only conversing with 10 or 20 people here I'm assuming. Many others could be watching. Also like I had said that I had it lined up for Ian to ride with the pedal and when that didn't work out we have just been moving forward with everything else such as manufacturing/boxes/etc. Finding another rider just got lost in the scheme of things.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Also here are some pictures of pedals that are similar to ours, that I think that everyone has been talking about. In our opinion they are all flawed and over engineered. Even their written reviews had issues. We have worked the bugs out of our pedal and there is nothing to line up. Your foot just slides forward and your clip automatically engages. We did not use any of these ideas when we were developing our own. Ours is completely unique in every way.


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

The packing isn't bad. It actually seems (hard to judge - materials, weight, etc. in a pic) a bit of a mismatch with the rest of brand identity. 

As has been noted a few times, the rest of the brand is just bad - the name, the logo, really everything. But, you've ignore that feedback too. 

Your product's claimed point-of-difference is quickness/speed of entry and easy of entry. Your claimed brand benefit is that riders, particularly new riders, will not be left by the group, won't be stressed out about clipping in in time, etc. And, you've chosen a ferocious pitbull with sharp teeth to embody the brand attributes and allay those fears. Nice work. 

Given the degree to which you ignore any and all feedback, I think @PBL450 nailed it... your posts are simply for exposure/SEO. And... I just helped kick the can down the road... damn it.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

OldZaskar said:


> The packing isn't bad. It actually seems (hard to judge - materials, weight, etc. in a pic) a bit of a mismatch with the rest of brand identity.
> As has been noted a few times, the rest of the brand is just bad - the name, the logo, really everything. But, you've ignore that feedback too.
> Your product's claimed point-of-difference is quickness/speed of entry and easy of entry. Your claimed brand benefit is that riders, particularly new riders, will not be left by the group, won't be stressed out about clipping in in time, etc. And, you've chosen a ferocious pitbull with sharp teeth to embody the brand attributes and allay those fears. Nice work.
> Given the degree to which you ignore any and all feedback, I think @PBL450 nailed it... your posts are simply for exposure/SEO. And... I just helped kick the can down the road... damn it.


Unfortunately you are out of your freaking mind. I have not approached this that way ever. Also I have never responded to anyone this way before. You are just completely way off base. Maybe you think of pit bulls or dogs in general as just angry beasts. We do not. Actually our graphic is smiling, maybe you just have not noticed it. I do appreciate what everyone has said, but just because I have not taken 10 to 15 peoples ideas and changed the entire packaging/product you should not be holding that against me. We do know how well the product works and we plan to be extremely competitive in pricing, if not the lowest of all.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Maybe you think of pit bulls or dogs in general as just angry beasts.


There is no question among sane people that pit bulls have the most ferocious bite. Proven in multiple studies. It's not even debatable. 
Dog Bite Study: Injuries from pit bull bites most frequent, most severe
Central Texas Pediatric Study: Pit Bulls Inflicted the Highest Prevalence and Severity of Dog Bite Injuries 



> Actually our graphic is smiling, maybe you just have not noticed it.


Smiling? Meh that's debatable. Not sure I see that. But... the teeth are very sharp. Just as OldZaskar stated. 
You seem soooo concerned about the 'ferocious' image of pit bulls. Yet you make the teeth all pointy, which is not at all what their teeth actually look like.



> I do appreciate what everyone has said, but just because I have not taken 10 to 15 peoples ideas and changed the entire packaging/product you should not be holding that against me.


Has there been anyone on this (or the other forum) that said you have a good idea/design?


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Unfortunately you are out of your freaking mind. I have not approached this that way ever. Also I have never responded to anyone this way before. You are just completely way off base. Maybe you think of pit bulls or dogs in general as just angry beasts. We do not. Actually our graphic is smiling, maybe you just have not noticed it. I do appreciate what everyone has said, but just because I have not taken 10 to 15 peoples ideas and changed the entire packaging/product you should not be holding that against me. We do know how well the product works and we plan to be extremely competitive in pricing, if not the lowest of all.


Yeah, it's just me. Pretty much everyone else thinks of pitbulls as cuddly little pups. I guess, when you Google "most hated", "most ferocious", "most dangerous" + "dogs", we should be seeing Golden Retrievers, Labrador Retrievers... and not your smiling puppy. 










For the record, this whole dynamic is damn entertaining. I've written questionnaires, moderated and watched consumer focus groups for Jeep, Nestle, Visa - scores of large CPG companies... interviewed product developers, CMOs and CEOs as we developed brands... I have yet to see anyone ignore feedback to the extent you do. It past confusing and sailed beyond funny about 10 pages ago. Keep going. It's a great break from work and I'm getting lots of funny quotes for talks/lectures.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Unfortunately you are out of your freaking mind. I have not approached this that way ever. Also I have never responded to anyone this way before. You are just completely way off base. Maybe you think of pit bulls or dogs in general as just angry beasts. We do not. Actually our graphic is smiling, maybe you just have not noticed it.


What planet do you live on? Justified or not, a pit bull is the stereotype of a vicious dog. You may be in love with the Pitbull name, but OldZaskar is spot on with his assessment. Your branding does not convey, in any way, the purported advantage of these pedals. There will not be one potential customer who thinks "Wow, Pitbull Pedals. I bet they're quick and easy to use!"


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> There is no question among sane people that pit bulls have the most ferocious bite. Proven in multiple studies. It's not even debatable.
> Dog Bite Study: Injuries from pit bull bites most frequent, most severe
> Central Texas Pediatric Study: Pit Bulls Inflicted the Highest Prevalence and Severity of Dog Bite Injuries
> 
> ...


I can definitely see the smiling in the face, if not maybe we can emphasize it more. Also maybe we can round off the teeth a little bit if it really is offending people. The whole point is that the cleat holds the pedal, no more no less.




OldZaskar said:


> Yeah, it's just me. Pretty much everyone else thinks of pitbulls as cuddly little pups. I guess, when you Google "most hated", "most ferocious", "most dangerous" + "dogs", we should be seeing Golden Retrievers, Labrador Retrievers... and not your smiling puppy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We've changed the whole design of the cleat based off of information gained from feedback from here and other sites. Right now our graphics guy is going to be sending me a color change on the boxes to see what red looks like based off of another post in this thread.


I'm editing this post, because as soon as I posted it my graphics guy had emailed me the new box.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I can definitely see the smiling in the face, if not maybe we can emphasize it more. Also maybe we can round off the teeth a little bit if it really is offending people. The whole point is that the cleat holds the pedal, no more no less.


Offended? WTF? No one gives a $#it. If you want to make the teeth more ferocious than they really are.. go for it. But then don't go pretending pit bulls are gentle beasts.

Personally... I think your logo looks amateurish. And love the irony of a pedal that's supposed to be easy for beginners to use but is represented by a dog well known for having a grip that won't ever let go, even if you hit it with a baseball bat. :thumbsup:


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## jonel33 (Aug 15, 2008)

I'm curious as to why so much effort is put forth to try and convince "10 or 20 individuals" that this pedal design is just about the best. Would so few have a great impact on the future of this pedal? I do think there is more here than just asking for opinions. Just my thoughts. And I think I have read enough on Pitbull Pedals. Time to move on.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> Offended? WTF? No one gives a $#it. If you want to make the teeth more ferocious than they really are.. go for it. But then don't go pretending pit bulls are gentle beasts.
> 
> Personally... I think your logo looks amateurish. And love the irony of a pedal that's supposed to be easy for beginners to use but is represented by a dog well known for having a grip that won't ever let go, even if you hit it with a baseball bat. :thumbsup:


I value your opinion.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

tlg said:


> Personally... I think your logo looks amateurish.


So, it's very much on brand. :wink5:


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

jonel33 said:


> I'm curious as to why so much effort is put forth to try and convince "10 or 20 individuals" that this pedal design is just about the best. Would so few have a great impact on the future of this pedal? I do think there is more here than just asking for opinions. Just my thoughts. And I think I have read enough on Pitbull Pedals. Time to move on.


Well then please do not read any more of my posts if they upset you in any way. But feel free to respond if you would like.



QuiQuaeQuod said:


> So, it's very much on brand. :wink5:


Obviously that is your opinion but we are just trying to keep everything as simple as possible. There are only a few moving parts on the pedal system and trying to make the box and instructions the least complicated as possible in order to keep our costs as low as possible. The box should not sell the product, the quality of the pedal should sell itself.

Again we are not trying to dominate the pedal industry. We have just come up with what we think is a great idea and are just moving forward with it.


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## chad.trent (Apr 4, 2016)

As someone who has worked in the packaging design industry for many years, I'm trying to figure out what I'm looking at. Is this a sleeve that goes over another inner box? 

I also would like to see the inside of the box with the pedals in it.


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## BubbaGump (Feb 17, 2015)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> The box should not sell the product, the quality of the pedal should sell itself.


This right here is what is going to kill your product. You are a no name competing against giants like Look, Time, Shimano, and Speedplay. Your packaging fail to really show your product, when I see Pitbull I immediately think of an aggressively designed flat pedal, and, in general, your packaging is just easy to look past. Nothing about it grabs your attention. It looks like the old, generic, black and white boxes. 

You should really look at hiring a reputable marketing firm to design your logo and packaging for you. Rushing to market in this current state is foolish. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Obviously that is your opinion but we are just trying to keep everything as simple as possible.


That's not my opinion of your product, that's my opinion of your actions on this board to date in toto. Amateur. A pro would have ignored that bait, especially as it was not directed at them. If I hired someone to get feedback on a product, and they generated what you have generated here, I would fire them for being unprofessional. Simple as that.

Even if I thought your product good (which I don't), I would expect you to fail based on your writing here, your responses to others, your seeming need to keep conflicts going, etc. 

My opinion, sure. But negative opinions of your product and behavior are pretty common on this board. Your supporters and defenders are few and far between. Your actions play a large part in that.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Chimpanzees have deadly bites. Maybe call the pedals ChimpChomps, to avoid the whole offputting pitbull thing.

Snapping turtles also have a strong bite, and are known to not let go of your toe unless you cut off their heads. So how about TurtleToeSnappers?


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

OldZaskar said:


> ......
> For the record, this whole dynamic is damn entertaining. I've written questionnaires, moderated and watched consumer focus groups for Jeep, Nestle, Visa - scores of large CPG companies... interviewed product developers, CMOs and CEOs as we developed brands... I have yet to see anyone ignore feedback to the extent you do. It past confusing and sailed beyond funny about 10 pages ago. Keep going. It's a great break from work and I'm getting lots of funny quotes for talks/lectures.


That's because you are looking at this as a logical business decision. It's not. I figured out weeks ago that this isn't "business" at all, it's actually a form of "performance art". The poster is trolling us for responses to his character, who he has developed as commentary on narcissistic blowhards in society in general, perhaps even about Donald Trump in particular. It's so subtle that I didn't catch caricature at first.....

OK, now that the cat is out of the bag, time to move this thread to the 'politics only forum'.....


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

I am probably one of the few people here that like the logo. Granted I think the product is of minimal value for me and am not about to try it, the minimalist logo matches the concept of the product. And we use far too much plastic, so I like the cardboard box which even if not recycled, is biodegradable. 

On pit bulls, all of the ones I have met have been gentle lovable dogs. They do have a bad reputation as they, as well as most terriers, were bred to have strong jaws in order to be rodent killers in the early days. Some people have trained to be vicious killers. I, for one, am more afraid of other terriers more so than pit bulls.

However, imagine a Labrador retriever logo or for that matter, some other silly friendly puppy. Do you really think that would sell regardless of the product? ut: Pit bulls have the image of toughness even if not vicious. I'd rather have a tough pedal than a silly, stupid pedal. :idea:


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tomato coupe said:


> What planet do you live on? Justified or not, a pit bull is the stereotype of a vicious dog. You may be in love with the Pitbull name, but OldZaskar is spot on with his assessment. Your branding does not convey, in any way, the purported advantage of these pedals. There will not be one potential customer who thinks "Wow, Pitbull Pedals. I bet they're quick and easy to use!"


Again this is just your opinion and if you don't have anything more to add positively, please don't add anymore to this thread and let it die out when it does.





chad.trent said:


> As someone who has worked in the packaging design industry for many years, I'm trying to figure out what I'm looking at. Is this a sleeve that goes over another inner box?
> 
> I also would like to see the inside of the box with the pedals in it.


We're trying to spend the least on hype/decoration and let the pedals speak for themselves. We have a display cleat mounted to a lacquered piece of wood that would go in the stores that would accept our product. Hopefully they would have a box open in their display case also.




BubbaGump said:


> This right here is what is going to kill your product. You are a no name competing against giants like Look, Time, Shimano, and Speedplay. Your packaging fail to really show your product, when I see Pitbull I immediately think of an aggressively designed flat pedal, and, in general, your packaging is just easy to look past. Nothing about it grabs your attention. It looks like the old, generic, black and white boxes.
> 
> You should really look at hiring a reputable marketing firm to design your logo and packaging for you. Rushing to market in this current state is foolish.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


I do not feel this product will be bought on a whim, I think that a person would be going to a bike store to look for pedals and would see our display/open box and choose to buy our pedal over a different one. Maybe that is a whim.




QuiQuaeQuod said:


> That's not my opinion of your product, that's my opinion of your actions on this board to date in toto. Amateur. A pro would have ignored that bait, especially as it was not directed at them. If I hired someone to get feedback on a product, and they generated what you have generated here, I would fire them for being unprofessional. Simple as that.
> 
> Even if I thought your product good (which I don't), I would expect you to fail based on your writing here, your responses to others, your seeming need to keep conflicts going, etc.
> 
> My opinion, sure. But negative opinions of your product and behavior are pretty common on this board. Your supporters and defenders are few and far between. Your actions play a large part in that.


You have spoken your peace and I accept that, goodbye.



SPlKE said:


> Chimpanzees have deadly bites. Maybe call the pedals ChimpChomps, to avoid the whole offputting pitbull thing.
> 
> Snapping turtles also have a strong bite, and are known to not let go of your toe unless you cut off their heads. So how about TurtleToeSnappers?


Truthfully we never gave it any consideration that our dog was vicious. In our drawing it appears to be smiling as it is holding our pedal. People will see what they want to see.




No Time Toulouse said:


> That's because you are looking at this as a logical business decision. It's not. I figured out weeks ago that this isn't "business" at all, it's actually a form of "performance art". The poster is trolling us for responses to his character, who he has developed as commentary on narcissistic blowhards in society in general, perhaps even about Donald Trump in particular. It's so subtle that I didn't catch caricature at first.....
> 
> OK, now that the cat is out of the bag, time to move this thread to the 'politics only forum'.....


You are speaking over my head. It is true that we are just two amateurs trying to create something, no more or less. We are not trying to revolutionize the pedal industry we are just trying to get a small piece of the pie.



Lombard said:


> I am probably one of the few people here that like the logo. Granted I think the product is of minimal value for me and am not about to try it, the minimalist logo matches the concept of the product. And we use far too much plastic, so I like the cardboard box which even if not recycled, is biodegradable.
> 
> On pit bulls, all of the ones I have met have been gentle lovable dogs. They do have a bad reputation as they, as well as most terriers, were bred to have strong jaws in order to be rodent killers in the early days. Some people have trained to be vicious killers. I, for one, am more afraid of other terriers more so than pit bulls.
> 
> However, imagine a Labrador retriever logo or for that matter, some other silly friendly puppy. Do you really think that would sell regardless of the product? ut: Pit bulls have the image of toughness even if not vicious. I'd rather have a tough pedal than a silly, stupid pedal. :idea:


Time will tell.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

I talked to the graphics guy and he took the sharp teeth away from our pit bull. What do you think? I think it looks silly. Also another poster had written asking for a red box, which I had the graphics guy whip up. I actually think that the red one looks pretty good.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I talked to the graphics guy and he took the sharp teeth away from our pit bull. What do you think? I think it looks silly.


 The teeth proportions are off a bit. But I think it looks better. It looks more like a substantial grip as opposed to super pointy teeth that look like they'll break off.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Also another poster had written asking for a red box, which I had the graphics guy whip up. I actually think that the red one looks pretty good.


Correction, I did not ASK for red. 

I SUGGESTED red.

You seem to have a problem with changing what happens to fit the narrative you want to exist.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Lombard said:


> I am probably one of the few people here that like the logo.


Burn the witch!!


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

Can numbers have opinions?


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

OldZaskar said:


> Can numbers have opinions?


Nope. And the numbers are so vastly overwhelming. 

More than 50% of all pit bulls in the USA are up for sale or adoption. (Merritt Clifton, 2019 Dog Breed Survey.) 
Most of the pit bulls offered for sale or adoption have been given up by their former owners. (Merritt Clifton, "Rescued" pit bulls now outnumber pit puppies.)
Between 19% and 32% of all dogs taken to shelters are pit bulls. (Emily Weiss, Rising from the Pitt [19%]; Merritt Clifton, "Rescued" pit bulls now outnumber pit puppies [32%].)
Pit bulls remain in shelters approximately three times as long as other breeds. 
Forty percent of pit bulls in shelters are euthanized every year. (Emily Weiss, Rising from the Pitt, ASPCAPro, https://www.aspcapro.org/blog/2017/05/19/rising-pit).

Pit bulls bite more humans than other breeds
From February 2013 to present, Animal control and health departments in 19 U.S. states report that pit bulls are leading all breeds in biting incidents. The studies are summarized and linked at Dogsbite.org, Pit Bulls Lead "Bite" Counts Across U.S. Cities and Counties, http://blog.dogsbite.org/2009/07/pit-bulls-lead-bite-counts-across-us.html.

In the 10 years from 2009 to 2018, pit bulls killed or maimed 3,569 people in the USA and Canada. (Merritt Clifton, Dog Attack Deaths & Maimings, U.S. & Canada, 1982-2018 Log.) 
They killed over 80% of all Americans who are killed by dogs. (Colleen Lynn, 2015 U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities, at http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2015.php.) 
In the 13-year period from 2005 to 2017, pit bulls killed 283 Americans. (Colleen Lynn, 12-Year U.S. Dog Bite Fatality Chart and Colleen Lynn, 2017 U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities.) 
In 2018, pit bulls killed 25 of the 34 Americans who died because of a dog attack. Eighteen of the pit bull victims were the pit bull's owner, a family member of the pit bull's owner, or a baby (not a member of the family) that the pit bull owner was watching. It can be safely assumed that pit bulls usually bite the same type of person they usually kill, namely their owners and the owner's family. 

Pit bull bites are more deadly than those of other breeds
Studies by health care providers establish that pit bull attacks are associated with higher median Injury Severity Scale scores, a higher number of hospital admissions, higher hospital charges, and a higher risk of death. (Bini, John K. MD; Cohn, Stephen M. MD; Acosta, Shirley M. RN, BSN; McFarland, Marilyn J. RN, MS; Muir, Mark T. MD; Michalek, Joel E. PhD, Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs, Annals of Surgery: April 2011, vol. 253, iss. 4, pp. 791–797, cited at http://journals.lww.com/annalsofsur..._Mauling,_and_Maiming_by_Vicious_Dogs.23.aspx.) 

The most recent study of dog bites, authored entirely by physicians, concludes that injuries from pit bulls are both more frequent and more severe. (Essig Jr., Garth F., et al., Dog Bite Injuries to the Face: Is There Risk with Breed Ownership? A Systematic Review with Meta-Analysis, Int. J. of Ped. Otorhinolaryngology 117 (2019) 192-188; accessed 3/25/2019 at https://bit.ly/2HShg80.)

Pit bull owners are more likely to be irresponsible
In nearly all of the cases in which Attorney Kenneth M. Phillips has been consulted, where a pit bull killed a person, the pit bull owners had no insurance and therefore the victim's family received no justice in the form of compensation.

Published, peer-reviewed studies in authoritative journals of psychology and forensic science establish that pit bulls owners as a whole -- statistically -- are more likely to be socially deviant, engage in crimes involving children, domestic violence, alchohol abuse, and violent crimes against other persons. (Jaclyn E. Barnes, Barbara W. Boat, Frank W. Putnam, Harold F. Dates, and Andrew R. Mahlman, Ownership of High-Risk ("Vicious") Dogs As a Marker for Deviant Behaviors

Pit bulls kill their owners, family members and babies more than half the time
Of the 31 Americans killed by dogs in 2016, 23 were killed by pitbulls and their mixes, and 12 of those 23 victims were either the owner of the pitbull (4) or a member of the pitbull owner's family (8). (See details given by Colleen Lynn, http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2016.php.) 

In 2017, of the 39 Americans killed by dogs, 29 were killed by pitbulls and their mixes, and 18 of those 29 victims were either the owner of the pitbull or a family member (including a relative). (See Colleen Lynn, https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2017.php.)

In 2018, 34 Americans were killed by dogs, 25 of the killer dogs were pit bulls, and 16 of the 25 pit bulls killed their owner or the owner's family member; the victims of two other fatal pit bull attacks were babies not a member of the pit bull owner's family that the pit bull owners were watching. (Phillips, Kenneth, Pit Bull Killings - 2018, https://bit.ly/2Wubi1j.)

Pit bulls also have been known to eat their owners. In 2019, when the police went in search for Freddie Mack (57, Johnson County), they could not find him, but they found bits of his bones and clothes in the excrement of his 15 pit bulls. (Sheriff: Missing North Texas man was eaten by his own dogs, Fox4News.com, July 10, 2019, https://bit.ly/2YR4BrD.)

Females are the most frequent victims in fatal pit bull attacks
In 2018, 25 Americans were killed by pit bulls, and 19 of them were female adults or female children. (Phillips, Kenneth, Pit Bull Killings - 2018, https://bit.ly/2Wubi1j.)

Pit bulls kill more children than any other breed of dog
In 2017, dogs killed 15 children out of the 39 total human fatalities. Pit bulls kllled 8 of the 15 youths. (See Colleen Lynn, https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2017.php.)

In 2018, dogs again killed 15 children, and pit bulls killed at least 9 of those 15 ("at least" because the authorities have concealed the breed of one of the dogs that killed a child.) (See Colleen Lynn, 2018 Dog Bite Fatalities and Phillips, Kenneth, Pit Bull Killings - 2018, https://bit.ly/2Wubi1j.) 

Pit bulls are the No. 1 canine killers of other people's pets and animals
In 2017, pit bulls killed 13,000 dogs, 5,000 cats and 20,000 horses and other farm animals. (See Merritt Clifton, 'Pit Bull Roulette' killed 38,000 other animals in 2017.) Having destroyed more than 90% of other animals killed by dogs, the breed became the number one killer of other people's pets, horses and farm animals. 

Pit bulls engage in home invasions more often than any other dog
Approximately once per month during 2015, 2016 and 2017, a pit bull has entered the home of a person not its owner for the purpose of killing or injuring people or pets. In addition to homes, the invaded premises have included apartments, schools and even a police station. There were 16 such incidents in 2015, 17 in 2016, and 11 in 2017, with the first recorded one in 1912. (See Safety Before Pit Bulldogs, Extreme Attacks: List of Invasion Attacks by Pit Bulls, at Safety Before Pit Bulldogs: Extreme Attacks: List of Invasion Attacks by Pit Bulls.) 

Pit bull attacks (deaths and disfigurements) are on the rise
Fatal and disfiguring attacks by pit bulls have risen 830% since 2007. (Merritt Clifton, Record 33 fatal pit bull attacks & 459 disfigurements in 2015, at http://www.animals24-7.org/2016/01/04/record-33-fatal-pit-bull-attacks-459-disfigurements-in-2015/)

The pit bull attack cover-up is on the rise
The authorities either unwittingly or purposely are engaging in a cover-up pertaining to pit bull violence. In the three decades from 1982 t0 2013, only 45 canine homicides or disfigurements were by dogs of an unidentified breed, but in 2014 there were 36 and in 2015 there were 78. (Merritt Clifton, Record 33 fatal pit bull attacks & 459 disfigurements in 2015, at http://www.animals24-7.org/2016/01/04/record-33-fatal-pit-bull-attacks-459-disfigurements-in-2015/) 

Breeding pit bulls adds to the pit bull problem
Over 40% of the USA's pit bulls are homeless, according to the latest survey (Merritt Clifton, 2018 Dog Breed Survey: At Least 41% of U.S. Pit Bull Population Are Seeking Homes, at https://www.animals24-7.org/2018/06...of-u-s-pit-bull-population-are-seeking-homes/). The percent of homeless pit bulls is probably over 50% because rescues and shelters falsely advertise two out of ten pit bulls as being some other breed. This means half or nearly half of the nation's pit bulls are seeking homes. Breeding pit bulls potentially adds to that number.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> This is our first design for our packaging. It's recycled cardboard and simple black and white identification labeling. Keeps it simple and inexpensive. Thumbs up or thumbs down? Or if anyone has any constructive suggestions we are open to that as well.





tomato coupe said:


> Your branding does not convey, in any way, the purported advantage of these pedals.





Pitbull Pedal said:


> Again this is just your opinion and if you don't have anything more to add positively, please don't add anymore to this thread and let it die out when it does.


BubbaGump was clearly correct in post #2:



BubbaGump said:


> I feel like we've been through this before, and no, you are not open to constructive criticism.


If you don't want opinions, don't start a thread asking for opinions.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

OldZaskar said:


> Can numbers have opinions?


As a long time dog owner I think the problem lies much more in bad owners than bad dog breeds. Bad owners probably have a self selection thing going on when they pick out a particular dog. Pit bulls are just more likely to get a bad owner than the other way around is my guess. Teach/encourage a dog to be mean and aggressive and that's what you get.


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

pmf said:


> As a long time dog owner I think the problem lies much more in bad owners than bad dog breeds. Bad owners probably have a self selection thing going on when they pick out a particular dog. Pit bulls are just more likely to get a bad owner than the other way around is my guess. Teach/encourage a dog to be mean and aggressive and that's what you get.


No doubt. But... it doesn't matter. The point of a brand asset - name, logo, color, imagery, etc. is to make a connection, establish an association... You know - Mustang = free spirit, speed; Amazon - discovery, limitless; Google - enormous... Some are a bit abstract - Nike - not many consumers knew that Nike was the Goddess of Victory... Some are very abstract - Who knew (or cared) that Starbuck was the firstmate on the Pequod... Ahab's boat... from Moby Dick. 

But abstract is better than negative, like a the pit bull. Ask a 1,000 consumers - consumers of cycling products, not cigarettes, the National Enquirer and lottery tickets - and you'll hear "dangerous", "vicious", "attacks", "white trash", "wannabe gangsters... actual gangsters" "trailer parks"... You won't hear "safer", "quicker", "easier" 

But, as Mr. Pitbull said... that's my opinion.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

OldZaskar said:


> No doubt. But... it doesn't matter. The point of a brand asset - name, logo, color, imagery, etc. is to make a connection, establish an association... You know - Mustang = free spirit, speed; Amazon - discovery, limitless; Google - enormous... Some are a bit abstract - Nike - not many consumers knew that Nike was the Goddess of Victory... Some are very abstract - Who knew (or cared) that Starbuck was the firstmate on the Pequod... Ahab's boat... from Moby Dick.
> 
> But abstract is better than negative, like a the pit bull. Ask a 1,000 consumers - consumers of cycling products, not cigarettes, the National Enquirer and lottery tickets - and you'll hear "dangerous", "vicious", "attacks", "white trash", "wannabe gangsters... actual gangsters" "trailer parks"... You won't hear "safer", "quicker", "easier"
> 
> But, as Mr. Pitbull said... that's my opinion.


Is the random pit bull out there that you encounter on the street more likely to bite you than other dog breeds. Probably so given the types of people who own them. But if you control for that, the breed itself is probably no more dangerous than any other. 

I agree that its a silly name for a bike accessory. It has connotations of a pedal that just won't let go. As in what happens at a stop sign.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

pmf said:


> Is the random pit bull out there that you encounter on the street more likely to bite you than other dog breeds. Probably so given the types of people who own them. But if you control for that, the breed itself is probably no more dangerous than any other.


If you assume BREEDERS have been breeding for aggression, think fighting dogs, there might be more to it.

I don't think pits are inherently a bad breed, since they were known as "nanny dogs" back in the day. Protective, but safe around kids. 

Today is not then. And reality is irrelevant, pits have a bad reputation, and so a lot of people will start with a negative association. it's a stupid name for that reason for any product, unless it is something like MMA gloves.

Given the choice of name, the graphic works well.

I wonder what the board would say about naming a pedal "frogs".


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## xxl (Mar 19, 2002)

Originally Posted by *xxl*  
Going with that, how about incorporating a depiction of dog's teeth biting down on the sides of the box?--reinforces the whole "pitbull mouth" idea.

Re simplicity, having dog teeth on the sides needn't drive up costs appreciably--the labels can still be B&W.

Getting the label on straight will be important no matter what's on the label. My conception of it was that the sides would be the only visual reference to a dog (subtle, and possibly less likely to evoke images of "rabid" dogs ), and you'd also have the more valuable label real estate on the top of the package for your brand, logo, etc.


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> ..
> 
> We're trying ....
> You are speaking over my head. It is true that we are just two amateurs trying to create something, no more or less. We are not trying to revolutionize the pedal industry we are just trying to get a small piece of the pie.
> ...


Wow, you're really good at 'staying in character'! I almost believe that you actually are a narcissistic [email protected]$$......


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Lombard said:


> I am probably one of the few people here that like the logo. Granted I think the product is of minimal value for me and am not about to try it, the minimalist logo matches the concept of the product. And we use far too much plastic, so I like the cardboard box which even if not recycled, is biodegradable.
> 
> On pit bulls, all of the ones I have met have been gentle lovable dogs. They do have a bad reputation as they, as well as most terriers, were bred to have strong jaws in order to be rodent killers in the early days. Some people have trained to be vicious killers. I, for one, am more afraid of other terriers more so than pit bulls.
> 
> However, imagine a Labrador retriever logo or for that matter, some other silly friendly puppy. Do you really think that would sell regardless of the product? ut: Pit bulls have the image of toughness even if not vicious. I'd rather have a tough pedal than a silly, stupid pedal. :idea:


According to the CDC, dog attacks that require medical attention are a breed specific problem. Pit Bulls are the overwhelming culprit. They kill people. Few other dogs are cited in these incidents. The CDC estimates 9/10 Pitt type dogs are safe. That number is insane. Would you buy a handgun that is probable to blow of your arm 1 in 10 times?


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I talked to the graphics guy and he took the sharp teeth away from our pit bull. What do you think? I think it looks silly. Also another poster had written asking for a red box, which I had the graphics guy whip up. I actually think that the red one looks pretty good.


I like this one better (human front teeth) than the previous ( fake pointy teeth).

Better yet, do one with realistic looking dog teeth.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

PBL450 said:


> According to the CDC, dog attacks that require medical attention are a breed specific problem. Pit Bulls are the overwhelming culprit. They kill people. Few other dogs are cited in these incidents. The CDC estimates 9/10 Pitt type dogs are safe. That number is insane. Would you buy a handgun that is probable to blow of your arm 1 in 10 times?


Bad analogy. My point is that pit bulls are not vicious unless they are trained to be vicious. Any dog can be dangerous under the wrong cercumstsnces.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Since you're going to be paying for the second color, red, use it to make your logo more visually arresting... use the red ink as blood dripping from the dog's mouth where it is clenched on the pedal.


PS: The human teeth are dumb. If you're committed to the name pitbull, don't halfass it.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Lombard said:


> Bad analogy. My point is that pit bulls are not vicious unless they are trained to be vicious. Any dog can be dangerous under the wrong cercumstsnces.


It doesn't take long for a breeder to cull the nice dogs and breed the aggressive ones through many generations. How many generations in 10-20 years? Breeders say that 30-50 years is what it takes to produce a new BREED, so 10-20 can produce a LOT of change.

Not all breeders do this of course, but you likely won't know if a particular pit has that history or not.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

SPlKE said:


> Since you're going to be paying for the second color, red, use it to make your logo more visually arresting...


Bloody! Heh.

The box color is determined by what material you buy. The label is printed. Printing a second color generally adds to the cost compared to one color printing. Looking at a sample of a whopping one source, two color adds 25-40% to the cost depending on order size (for 500 and 10,000 order labels, small square ones).

Still, that's not going to be a lot of money total, likely less than $100 difference for 10,000 labels. Pennies matter though, for a new business, so even small cost differences should be considered.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

PBL450 said:


> According to the CDC, dog attacks that require medical attention are a breed specific problem. Pit Bulls are the overwhelming culprit. They kill people. Few other dogs are cited in these incidents. The CDC estimates 9/10 Pitt type dogs are safe. That number is insane. Would you buy a handgun that is probable to blow of your arm 1 in 10 times?


What this says to me is one in ten Pitt owners are the problem, blame the owner\trainer not the dog.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

velodog said:


> What this says to me is one in ten Pitt owners are the problem, *blame the owner\trainer not the dog.*


Bingo!!!!! Any dog can become vicious and dangerous if mistreated.

BTW, it should be noted for the box design that pit bull is two words, not one. It's pit bull, not pitbull.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> The teeth proportions are off a bit. But I think it looks better. It looks more like a substantial grip as opposed to super pointy teeth that look like they'll break off.


Sounds like you may be right, I just don't think that it looks like the teeth of a dog anymore.




QuiQuaeQuod said:


> Correction, I did not ASK for red.
> 
> I SUGGESTED red.
> 
> You seem to have a problem with changing what happens to fit the narrative you want to exist.


Be real, I thought I was doing the right thing and I actually do like the red box. Lighten up




OldZaskar said:


> Can numbers have opinions?


Ok




tlg said:


> Nope. And the numbers are so vastly overwhelming.
> 
> More than 50% of all pit bulls in the USA are up for sale or adoption. (Merritt Clifton, 2019 Dog Breed Survey.)
> Most of the pit bulls offered for sale or adoption have been given up by their former owners. (Merritt Clifton, "Rescued" pit bulls now outnumber pit puppies.)
> ...


It appears you've done your homework, this is just a pedal with a picture on it though.




tomato coupe said:


> BubbaGump was clearly correct in post #2:
> If you don't want opinions, don't start a thread asking for opinions.


I've used multiple opinions and listened to every one of them. I've tried to respond to the best of my ability.




OldZaskar said:


> No doubt. But... it doesn't matter. The point of a brand asset - name, logo, color, imagery, etc. is to make a connection, establish an association... You know - Mustang = free spirit, speed; Amazon - discovery, limitless; Google - enormous... Some are a bit abstract - Nike - not many consumers knew that Nike was the Goddess of Victory... Some are very abstract - Who knew (or cared) that Starbuck was the firstmate on the Pequod... Ahab's boat... from Moby Dick.
> 
> But abstract is better than negative, like a the pit bull. Ask a 1,000 consumers - consumers of cycling products, not cigarettes, the National Enquirer and lottery tickets - and you'll hear "dangerous", "vicious", "attacks", "white trash", "wannabe gangsters... actual gangsters" "trailer parks"... You won't hear "safer", "quicker", "easier"
> 
> But, as Mr. Pitbull said... that's my opinion.


Are intention was a dog biting down on the pedal. That particular dog just came to mind, it never dawned on us that people would think so badly of this particular breed when it involves a bike pedal.




pmf said:


> Is the random pit bull out there that you encounter on the street more likely to bite you than other dog breeds. Probably so given the types of people who own them. But if you control for that, the breed itself is probably no more dangerous than any other.
> 
> I agree that its a silly name for a bike accessory. It has connotations of a pedal that just won't let go. As in what happens at a stop sign.


Maybe you did not see that the pedal does release with the same turn of the heel as with any other road bike pedal. It will only come out when you want it to.




xxl said:


> Originally Posted by *xxl*
> Going with that, how about incorporating a depiction of dog's teeth biting down on the sides of the box?--reinforces the whole "pitbull mouth" idea.
> 
> Re simplicity, having dog teeth on the sides needn't drive up costs appreciably--the labels can still be B&W.
> ...


That is an idea, thank you for it.




No Time Toulouse said:


> Wow, you're really good at 'staying in character'! I almost believe that you actually are a narcissistic [email protected]$$......


I'm only going to respond to you with saying goodbye, as you are out of touch.





Lombard said:


> I like this one better (human front teeth) than the previous ( fake pointy teeth).
> 
> Better yet, do one with realistic looking dog teeth.


We'll keep refining the design before it goes to print.




SPlKE said:


> Since you're going to be paying for the second color, red, use it to make your logo more visually arresting... use the red ink as blood dripping from the dog's mouth where it is clenched on the pedal.
> 
> 
> PS: The human teeth are dumb. If you're committed to the name pitbull, don't halfass it.


We just had the human teeth drawn up as just to show what some of the other forum members had suggested/requested. I did not particularly like it either.




QuiQuaeQuod said:


> Bloody! Heh.
> 
> The box color is determined by what material you buy. The label is printed. Printing a second color generally adds to the cost compared to one color printing. Looking at a sample of a whopping one source, two color adds 25-40% to the cost depending on order size (for 500 and 10,000 order labels, small square ones).
> 
> Still, that's not going to be a lot of money total, likely less than $100 difference for 10,000 labels. Pennies matter though, for a new business, so even small cost differences should be considered.


I agree, we are doing the best that we can. I did like the red box with the black and white label that someone had mentioned.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Sounds like you may be right, I just don't think that it looks like the teeth of a dog anymore.


They didn't look like dog teeth before. NO dog has pointy teeth like that.




> It appears you've done your homework, this is just a pedal with a picture on it though.


Yes I've been following the 'myth' of the cute lovable mild mannered pit bull for a long time. Reasonable people and parents with dead and mauled children know otherwise.


----------



## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Be real, I thought I was doing the right thing and I actually do like the red box. Lighten up


The verb "ask" has deferential connotations in a way "suggest" does not. Casting others into a deferential position is a power play. If my pointing that out offends you, fine with me.

I suggest you consider how others will take your words, and consider them seriously. That does not mean you will agree with how they take your words, but you should recognize that you have managed to alienate many here with your words, and your response to their words multiple times.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Lombard said:


> Bingo!!!!! Any dog can become vicious and dangerous.


I fixed it for you. This is a vastly more truthful statement. Many factors will effect canine behavior, training and handling included, but they are from single source determinants. Genetics, health and disease status and many more factors are in play. The fact that our own CDC is telling us that dog attacks are a breed specific problem is really telling. It says Pit and bull type dogs are vastly more dangerous than all other breeds combined by a factor of nearly 10. That’s just data. Trying to presume poor handling as causal of a magnitude different than all other dogs is a fools assumption. They could be abused at double the rate and not even come close to explaining the data. I have a friend who runs a **** hound rescue and every one of his dogs has abused and has been trained to be exceedingly violent. Not a single dog has an aggression or violence problem. We may not always like what data says but that has no impact on the data.


----------



## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

How about a compromise... a disclaimer on the packaging.

*CAUTION:* Pit bulls are statistically implicated in more dog attacks than other breeds. Please be very careful when encountering an actual pit bull. In fact, avoid these dogs unless you know the dog personally. Even then, be super careful. Pit Bull Pedals in no way advocates actual pit bull biting for attaching your shoes to our pedals. No dogs were harmed in designing, manufacturing and selling Pit Bull Pedals. Compared to the cleats you already use, these pedals are fail. Use your head. Don't buy these pedals.


----------



## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

PBL450 said:


> I fixed it for you. This is a vastly more truthful statement. Many factors will effect canine behavior, training and handling included, but they are from single source determinants. Genetics, health and disease status and many more factors are in play. The fact that our own CDC is telling us that dog attacks are a breed specific problem is really telling. It says Pit and bull type dogs are vastly more dangerous than all other breeds combined by a factor of nearly 10. That’s just data. Trying to presume poor handling as causal of a magnitude different than all other dogs is a fools assumption. They could be abused at double the rate and not even come close to explaining the data. I have a friend who runs a **** hound rescue and every one of his dogs has abused and has been trained to be exceedingly violent. Not a single dog has an aggression or violence problem. We may not always like what data says but that has no impact on the data.


The REAL problem with the pitbull breed is that there is that they are used as an assault weapon by a segment of our society who aren't allowed to have any other types of assault weapons....


----------



## craiger_ny (Jun 24, 2014)

SPlKE said:


> How about a compromise... a disclaimer on the packaging.
> 
> *CAUTION:* Pit bulls are statistically implicated in more dog attacks than other breeds. Please be very careful when encountering an actual pit bull. In fact, avoid these dogs unless you know the dog personally. Even then, be super careful. Pit Bull Pedals in no way advocates actual pit bull biting for attaching your shoes to our pedals. No dogs were harmed in designing, manufacturing and selling Pit Bull Pedals. Compared to the cleats you already use, these pedals are fail. Use your head. Don't buy these pedals.


I'm more of a visual kind of person, like the depiction of a baby about to drown crossed out on the side of plastic buckets. Perhaps a stick drawing with a child's head being crushed in the mouth of a pitbull crossed out would be more universally understandable.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

craiger_ny said:


> I'm more of a visual kind of person, like the depiction of a baby about to drown crossed out on the side of plastic buckets. Perhaps a stick drawing with a child's head being crushed in the mouth of a pitbull crossed out would be more universally understandable.


Thinking of the international and illiterate audience. I like the cut of your jib. It's like Ikea instructions. 

And next to the graphic you suggested... another graphic showing the same child-killing, head-chomping dog... but clenched onto a bike pedal, with a big green check mark next to the graphic.

I'm extremely tempted to fire up my photoshop and make these graphics.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

my anecdotal evidence that pits are sketchy AF as pets...a former girlfriend has two of them, both are pound rescues. 

altho one was usually docile and friendly, once while playing with it, it grabbed my forearm in its mouth, induced very painful pressure, and refused to release it for well over a minute. 

the other is the most psychotic animal I've ever been around. I didn't like being anywhere near this walking hand grenade. if you made even casual, brief eye contact with it, it laid its ears back and growled. I never attempted to pet or play with this scary, hostile beast. 

these dogs would occasionally, for no apparent reason, go from resting peacefully to attacking each other and engage in flesh-ripping combat. wtf?

and for the record, these unpredictable dogs are one reason I no longer see their owner. seriously disliked being around them. would NEVER consider owning one.

so, yeah...the whole pitbull logo is a turn-off for me.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

A home on one of my cycling routes has three Pitt Bulls in the yard, and they are the least likely dogs to create a commotion to my presence.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> They didn't look like dog teeth before. NO dog has pointy teeth like that.
> 
> 
> Yes I've been following the 'myth' of the cute lovable mild mannered pit bull for a long time. Reasonable people and parents with dead and mauled children know otherwise.


With what so many people have said about the teeth, we may decide to blunt them just a bit.




QuiQuaeQuod said:


> The verb "ask" has deferential connotations in a way "suggest" does not. Casting others into a deferential position is a power play. If my pointing that out offends you, fine with me.
> 
> I suggest you consider how others will take your words, and consider them seriously. That does not mean you will agree with how they take your words, but you should recognize that you have managed to alienate many here with your words, and your response to their words multiple times.


You must of done a lot better in English class than I did, I'm just a guy with an idea. I build cabinets for a living.




PBL450 said:


> I fixed it for you. This is a vastly more truthful statement. Many factors will effect canine behavior, training and handling included, but they are from single source determinants. Genetics, health and disease status and many more factors are in play. The fact that our own CDC is telling us that dog attacks are a breed specific problem is really telling. It says Pit and bull type dogs are vastly more dangerous than all other breeds combined by a factor of nearly 10. That’s just data. Trying to presume poor handling as causal of a magnitude different than all other dogs is a fools assumption. They could be abused at double the rate and not even come close to explaining the data. I have a friend who runs a **** hound rescue and every one of his dogs has abused and has been trained to be exceedingly violent. Not a single dog has an aggression or violence problem. We may not always like what data says but that has no impact on the data.


I know that we are talking about actual pit bulls, but I'm trying to steer away from dog facts and back to the pedal.




SPlKE said:


> How about a compromise... a disclaimer on the packaging.
> 
> *CAUTION:* Pit bulls are statistically implicated in more dog attacks than other breeds. Please be very careful when encountering an actual pit bull. In fact, avoid these dogs unless you know the dog personally. Even then, be super careful. Pit Bull Pedals in no way advocates actual pit bull biting for attaching your shoes to our pedals. No dogs were harmed in designing, manufacturing and selling Pit Bull Pedals. Compared to the cleats you already use, these pedals are fail. Use your head. Don't buy these pedals.


That is your opinion




No Time Toulouse said:


> The REAL problem with the pitbull breed is that there is that they are used as an assault weapon by a segment of our society who aren't allowed to have any other types of assault weapons....


What?



craiger_ny said:


> I'm more of a visual kind of person, like the depiction of a baby about to drown crossed out on the side of plastic buckets. Perhaps a stick drawing with a child's head being crushed in the mouth of a pitbull crossed out would be more universally understandable.


Just dogs dogs dogs




Oxtox said:


> my anecdotal evidence that pits are sketchy AF as pets...a former girlfriend has two of them, both are pound rescues.
> 
> altho one was usually docile and friendly, once while playing with it, it grabbed my forearm in its mouth, induced very painful pressure, and refused to release it for well over a minute.
> 
> ...


Ok




velodog said:


> A home on one of my cycling routes has three Pitt Bulls in the yard, and they are the least likely dogs to create a commotion to my presence.


They are probably well trained.




With all of this conversation, if the shoe was on your foot, what would you people have chosen for a name to help to insure sales? We already have the egg beater, the lollipop, OMG.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

shoulda gone with Python Pedal...

snakes are way more cuddly than pit bulls.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

LokkJaww

KingKlench

EzEngage

SnapPedals

SnapDragon Pedals


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## threebikes (Feb 1, 2009)

Anyone else think their next thread be begging for marketing advice?


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Oxtox said:


> shoulda gone with Python Pedal...
> 
> snakes are way more cuddly than pit bulls.


Not a bad name. I actually do think that name sounds pretty good.




SPlKE said:


> LokkJaww
> 
> KingKlench
> 
> ...


Fairly good, I think the previous comment with Python Pedal is my favorite suggestion so far. Not sure though.




threebikes said:


> Anyone else think their next thread be begging for marketing advice?


There is no begging of any sort, there is just an open discussion and having fun. Some people just take things over the top.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

SnapDragon

FTW


Aww, look at that face.









"I'd never ever crush a child's skull in my jaws! ...unlike some creatures."


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

No Time Toulouse said:


> The REAL problem with the pitbull breed is that there is that they are used as an assault weapon by a segment of our society who aren't allowed to have any other types of assault weapons....


I hear that... but I doubt it could explain the data.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

No Time Toulouse said:


> The REAL problem with the pitbull breed is that there is that they are used as an assault weapon by a segment of our society who *aren't allowed to have any other types of assault weapons....*


You don't actually think that makes any difference to them do you? You can't think the law prevents that segment from getting their hands on firearms do you?


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Anyone want to make bets how long it takes before the mods move this thread over to P.O.?


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

cxwrench said:


> You don't actually think that makes any difference to them do you? You can't think the law prevents that segment from getting their hands on firearms do you?


You can walk down any street with a pitbull on a leash. Even a felon can do this without being stopped. Walking down the street with an AK-47 would get you stopped in no time at all.


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## xxl (Mar 19, 2002)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> ...
> 
> You must of done a lot better in English class than I did....
> 
> ...


----------



## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

No Time Toulouse said:


> You can walk down any street with a pitbull on a leash. Even a felon can do this without being stopped. Walking down the street with an AK-47 would get you stopped in no time at all.


Actually, I think more states have open carry laws than don’t... And, the problem with Pits is that they aren’t necessarily reliable in the capacity you reference, more so, they are like carrying around a hand grenade without a pin in it.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

xxl said:


> Pitbull Pedal said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Lets try and keep all the political stuff out, if anyone else has anything to say that is constructive I will respond. Enjoy the week.


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## chad.trent (Apr 4, 2016)

I just see so many ways that the packaging price is going to go way up with this design. So many ways to make it more affordable. But I guess they are set on that design.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

chad.trent said:


> I just see so many ways that the packaging price is going to go way up with this design. So many ways to make it more affordable. But I guess they are set on that design.



I'm not really sure what you are saying. We've only had 1 attempt at a design and the only change we've tried is switching the box color to red which I do actually like.


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## chad.trent (Apr 4, 2016)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I'm not really sure what you are saying. We've only had 1 attempt at a design and the only change we've tried is switching the box color to red which I do actually like.



I'm talking about the package itself. Is it folding carton? Corrugated? Is there a label on the outside? What does the inside look like?


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## xxl (Mar 19, 2002)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Just doing the best I can with what I have to work with.


Then I suggest you focus on that, instead of engaging in pointless reprimanding and debate with someone who gave you the honest advice you sought, and who "must've done a lot better in English class than [you] did."


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

chad.trent said:


> I'm talking about the package itself. Is it folding carton? Corrugated? Is there a label on the outside? What does the inside look like?


It is just a standard cardboard box with a cigar lid and it is a label that goes on top and wraps around the front and bottom which seals the lid. Inside will just be minimal as we are trying to promote the entire pedal as minimalist but perfectly functional.




xxl said:


> Then I suggest you focus on that, instead of engaging in pointless reprimanding and debate with someone who gave you the honest advice you sought, and who "must've done a lot better in English class than [you] did."


Everything is ok on my end.


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## chad.trent (Apr 4, 2016)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> It is just a standard cardboard box with a cigar lid and it is a label that goes on top and wraps around the front and bottom which seals the lid. Inside will just be minimal as we are trying to promote the entire pedal as minimalist but perfectly functional.


I know elsewhere you mentioned keeping costs down. The label will double your costs. Plus introduce a lot more labor as it can't be applied during the production process, and will have to be applied once the pedals are in the box and is closed up. You also need to think about the pedals being in a store. If they can't be opened and looked at before purchase people are going to be very reluctant to buy them.

A cigar lid indicates no tabs to hold the lid shut. This is a very poor design. It will create nothing but headaches. Also, the inside of the box being "minimal" doesn't say much. There will need to be some way to keep the pedals/cleats/etc from moving around. It can be done with corrugated or foam or other options. But it does need to be taken into account. Both methods have their advantages and drawbacks.

Have you worked with a packaging designer or just had your graphics guy come up with a box?


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

chad.trent said:


> I know elsewhere you mentioned keeping costs down. The label will double your costs. Plus introduce a lot more labor as it can't be applied during the production process, and will have to be applied once the pedals are in the box and is closed up. You also need to think about the pedals being in a store. If they can't be opened and looked at before purchase people are going to be very reluctant to buy them.
> 
> A cigar lid indicates no tabs to hold the lid shut. This is a very poor design. It will create nothing but headaches. Also, the inside of the box being "minimal" doesn't say much. There will need to be some way to keep the pedals/cleats/etc from moving around. It can be done with corrugated or foam or other options. But it does need to be taken into account. Both methods have their advantages and drawbacks.
> 
> Have you worked with a packaging designer or just had your graphics guy come up with a box?



Thanks, we have basically just been working with our graphics designer to come up with an idea for the box and label. We will be boxing them ourselves in the beginning with family members to see if we can get it to take off. There will be foam inside to hold the pedals and since our package has multiple sets of cleats that come standard with ours they will be in a small clear bag. 

I'm hoping a store would have one box open for display and we are making a handheld display for a customer to operate the pedals by hand to see how they function.


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## chad.trent (Apr 4, 2016)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Thanks, we have basically just been working with our graphics designer to come up with an idea for the box and label. We will be boxing them ourselves in the beginning with family members to see if we can get it to take off. There will be foam inside to hold the pedals and since our package has multiple sets of cleats that come standard with ours they will be in a small clear bag.
> 
> I'm hoping a store would have one box open for display and we are making a handheld display for a customer to operate the pedals by hand to see how they function.



Cut foam inside is also very expensive. You can make the supports out of corrugated without any separate pieces. By far the most economical and environmentally friendly. You can also print the boxes instead of a label, which will again save you a lot of money. You are already paying to print it black or red or whatever color you want. You can't print barcodes in red, so if you wanted a red box you would still need a black barcode or a barcode sticker. But it would still be a lot cheaper and a lot less labor intensive than trying to line up a label by hand and get it adhered properly.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Thank you for all this info, I will be taking it all into consideration. I consider your comments to be helpful, and like we had mentioned earlier we are going to be sending out roughly 100 boxes of pedals for people that have had helpful suggestions. If you would like we would send you a set as we will be going back through all the prior pages and pulling out select people.


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## chad.trent (Apr 4, 2016)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Thank you for all this info, I will be taking it all into consideration. I consider your comments to be helpful, and like we had mentioned earlier we are going to be sending out roughly 100 boxes of pedals for people that have had helpful suggestions. If you would like we would send you a set as we will be going back through all the prior pages and pulling out select people.



I'll give them a shot. If you want to have your designer contact me I can steer him in the right direction. 120 boxes is not too small of an order to get custom boxes made. We have done orders of less than 20. Obviously the price per piece will go up but it should still be a lot more affordable.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

We'll keep everything in mind as we get closer. We haven't received our first production shipment of pedals yet. The mold is completed for the cleat though.


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> We'll keep everything in mind as we get closer. We haven't received our first production shipment of pedals yet. The mold is completed for the cleat though.


Ummmm...I thought the cleat was an assembly of a CNC'd piece of 6061 Aluminum and a piece of spring steel. Where did the mold come in? Are you casting metal, or molding plastic?


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I know that we are talking about actual pit bulls, but I'm trying to steer away from dog facts and back to the pedal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> We'll keep everything in mind as we get closer. We haven't received our first production shipment of pedals yet. The mold is completed for the cleat though.


Has your one test cyclist completed testing? I hope your test cyclists put in at least 20 miles on these pedals before you put them out in the world. You'll need to cite that kind of exhaustive testing as evidence in court if a lawsuit arises from used of your pedals.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> ...we are making a handheld display for a customer to operate the pedals by hand to see how they function.


Try it by hand.

Or just contemplate the difference between leg strength + body weight versus hand strength.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> Try it by hand.
> 
> Or just contemplate the difference between leg strength + body weight versus hand strength.


Yes, good point. Handling the product may be useless as there is no connection to the products application. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

PBL450 said:


> Yes, good point. Handling the product may be useless as there is no connection to the products application.


Anyone who has tried to click in/out by hand, especially when the pedal is not mounted, knows how hard it is. Many have never done that. It's not that there is no connection to the application so much as the attempt to work things by hand is likely to drive people away from the product.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> Anyone who has tried to click in/out by hand, especially when the pedal is not mounted, knows how hard it is. Many have never done that. It's not that there is no connection to the application so much as the attempt to work things by hand is likely to drive people away from the product.


I have, it’s hard. My point being that handling the product has no practical resemblance to using the product which is done with feet and legs which are far stronger. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

PBL450 said:


> I have, it’s hard.


So hard that it makes one wonder if the thing is broken.


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## BubbaGump (Feb 17, 2015)

SPlKE said:


> Has your one test cyclist completed testing? I hope your test cyclists put in at least 20 miles on these pedals before you put them out in the world. You'll need to cite that kind of exhaustive testing as evidence in court if a lawsuit arises from used of your pedals.


We're talking about Roger. Have you seen the video? The man's not human!!!! 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

BubbaGump said:


> We're talking about Roger.


No, we're talking about the 'racer guy' from his LBS that was supposedly going to test the pedals.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

No Time Toulouse said:


> Ummmm...I thought the cleat was an assembly of a CNC'd piece of 6061 Aluminum and a piece of spring steel. Where did the mold come in? Are you casting metal, or molding plastic?


To get the price down dramatically we are going to make the cleat with glass filled nylon. Right now we're waiting for a final pricing to come in for titanium pedals.




PBL450 said:


> Pitbull Pedal said:
> 
> 
> > I know that we are talking about actual pit bulls, but I'm trying to steer away from dog facts and back to the pedal.
> ...


----------



## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> No, we're talking about the 'racer guy' from his LBS that was supposedly going to test the pedals.


Yes that is Ian. I really don't know why he hasn't found the time to do the simple test for us. But it does look like everyone wants more testing with more people and we're planning to give away so many sets of pedals we should have a lot of reviews at some point. I'm going to go back and see if Ian will do this simple test for us.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> To get the price down dramatically we are going to make the cleat with glass filled nylon. Right now we're waiting for a final pricing to come in for titanium pedals.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


You JUST changed your cleat design, so unless I have missed something, you have ridden ZERO miles on the current design.

Flat out saying things that are not true is not a good look.


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## BubbaGump (Feb 17, 2015)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> If a person was to check out the website and do some research they could find out very easily that the product has been well tested.


What about independent lab testing? You need to know the breaking point of your axle, stress on the bearings, etc. Actual pedal designers spend big money on this kind of analysis before even thinking about manufacturing. A couple of guys on a bike ride is not "well tested". For your sake, I hope you have a LLC setup and a significant amount of liability insurance. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Yes that is Ian. I really don't know why he hasn't found the time to do the simple test for us.


And of course... you've not managed to find anyone else in all these weeks. But you're obsessed with the looks of your packaging. 
Your priorities are out of wack.



QuiQuaeQuod said:


> You JUST changed your cleat design, so unless I have missed something, you have ridden ZERO miles on the current design.


Bingo. It's like the cart is in front of the horse.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

BubbaGump said:


> What about independent lab testing? You need to know the breaking point of your axle, stress on the bearings, etc. Actual pedal designers spend big money on this kind of analysis before even thinking about manufacturing. A couple of guys on a bike ride is not "well tested".


Ha! It's much more important to worry about what the logo looks like and packaging color!


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## BubbaGump (Feb 17, 2015)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> You JUST changed your cleat design, so unless I have missed something, you have ridden ZERO miles on the current design.


That'd be why he's including three sets of cleats with each set of pedals. He's not confident of their durability. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Thanks, we have ridden with these pedals for years and for thousands of miles with no problems at all. We will go to a legal source and get proper paperwork written up before anything goes on the market. Wish us luck.


Good luck.

You mentioned that your law firm is Morgan & Morgan. From the incessant, annoying ads on TV in my town, they appear to be a bunch of sleazy ambulance chasers. 

You might want to seek out a law firm that does something other that find ways to sue people and companies for frivolous and questionable personal injury claims. 

A attorney that 100% specializes in patents and trademarks is advisable as well, separate and apart from your liability attorney.


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> xxl said:
> 
> 
> > Just doing the best I can with what I have to work with.
> ...


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Thanks, we have ridden with these pedals for years and for thousands of miles with no problems at all.


Huh? That's impossible. Your mold isn't completed, thus you have zero miles on the cleat that you intend to use.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> You JUST changed your cleat design, so unless I have missed something, you have ridden ZERO miles on the current design.
> 
> Flat out saying things that are not true is not a good look.


I think maybe something has been missed along the way. We have been riding with the cleat machined out of a block of glass filled nylon and have had no issues. We do feel that it will be even stronger when all of the fibers line up in the molding process.




BubbaGump said:


> What about independent lab testing? You need to know the breaking point of your axle, stress on the bearings, etc. Actual pedal designers spend big money on this kind of analysis before even thinking about manufacturing. A couple of guys on a bike ride is not "well tested". For your sake, I hope you have a LLC setup and a significant amount of liability insurance.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


We have actually used the axle out of an existing pedal, that we had purchased and disassembled that has been on the market for years and shown no issues.




tlg said:


> And of course... you've not managed to find anyone else in all these weeks. But you're obsessed with the looks of your packaging.
> Your priorities are out of wack.
> 
> Bingo. It's like the cart is in front of the horse.


Thanks for the thoughts. In my humblest of opinions, with all the riding and testing we have done with the pedal, and I am a 200+lbs rider we are extremely confident in what we have as there has been zero failures. I wouldn't say that I'm obsessed with the packaging whatsoever I have just asked for other peoples opinions on it.

My priorities are not out of whack. We have so much going on I have just not gone out after more A+ riders to prove what I already know to be true. They will be coming though.




tlg said:


> Ha! It's much more important to worry about what the logo looks like and packaging color!


Like I had said above we have been riding with these for years and I'm 100% confident in what we have constructed.





BubbaGump said:


> That'd be why he's including three sets of cleats with each set of pedals. He's not confident of their durability.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


I'm extremely confident in the durability. It is just that you cannot believe how inexpensive they are to produce and what the other bike pedal companies are charging. We can just afford to put in extras at no cost to make our pedal extremely cost effective.




SPlKE said:


> Good luck.
> 
> You mentioned that your law firm is Morgan & Morgan. From the incessant, annoying ads on TV in my town, they appear to be a bunch of sleazy ambulance chasers.
> 
> ...


We do have a patent attorney already and we will be going to a liability attorney before we print any packaging or labels to make sure that our words on the packaging will protect us legally.





tlg said:


> Huh? That's impossible. Your mold isn't completed, thus you have zero miles on the cleat that you intend to use.


I had said to someone above we have been riding with machined glass filled nylon cleats for a long time now checking their wear and durability. We have had no issues with strength.


----------



## chad.trent (Apr 4, 2016)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> We do have a patent attorney already and we will be going to a liability attorney before we print any packaging or labels to make sure that our words on the packaging will protect us legally.


Speaking as someone who has filed and been awarded many patents, I will just say that I hope you filed a provisional patent before putting your product out there for everyone to see. If not your patent can't be enforced as you made the concept public domain without protection.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I had said to someone above we have been riding with machined glass filled nylon cleats for a long time now checking their wear and durability. We have had no issues with strength.


So as I said... you have ZERO miles on a molded cleat.


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## BubbaGump (Feb 17, 2015)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> We have actually used the axle out of an existing pedal, that we had purchased and disassembled that has been on the market for years and shown no issues.


While obviously ethically questionable, wouldn't there be some legal issues here? 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I think maybe something has been missed along the way. We have been riding with the cleat machined out of a block of glass filled nylon and have had no issues. We do feel that it will be even stronger when all of the fibers line up in the molding process.



Oh, if you FEEL that it must be so.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> We do have a patent attorney already and we will be going to a liability attorney before we print any packaging or labels to make sure that our words on the packaging will protect us legally.


Words on a package only go so far in protecting you. 

You can disclaim liability and responsibility all day long. 

But when you're defending yourself against a lawsuit by a customer who has been injured or killed, the words on your package won't release you from complaints of negligence, etc, and your disclaimers and warnings may actually be the rope that hangs you.

Also, does your patent attorney know that you disassembled another pedal, and reverse-engineered and/or copied it, and actually used part of the pedal in the creation of your pedal?


PS: Are you for real, or is this an elaborate ruse?


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I think maybe something has been missed along the way. We have been riding with the cleat machined out of a block of glass filled nylon and have had no issues. We do feel that it will be even stronger when all of the fibers line up in the molding process.


What are the mechanical properties of 'machined' glass filled nylon vs 'molded' glass filled nylon?




SPlKE said:


> But when you're defending yourself against a lawsuit by a customer who has been injured or killed, the words on your package won't release you from complaints of negligence, etc, and your disclaimers and warnings may actually be the rope that hangs you.


Were it to come to a lawsuit, the injury attorney would undoubtedly find this website as part of their investigation. They would see all the warnings brought up and the subsequent dismissal of concern by Pitbull. 

Would easily raise the bar from simple negligence to gross negligence.

But hey!... they got the teeth designed for the logo.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

tlg said:


> What are the mechanical properties of 'machined' glass filled nylon vs 'molded' glass filled nylon?
> 
> 
> Were it to come to a lawsuit, the injury attorney would undoubtedly find this website as part of their investigation. They would see all the warnings brought up and the subsequent dismissal of concern by Pitbull.
> ...


Speaking of which... 

Just in time for Pitbull Pedal's holiday marketing campaign! ...a pit bull just killed a 4 year old in Detroit. Right up until the dog killed the little boy and seriously injured his mom yesterday, it was described as never before having shown signs of aggression.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

SPlKE said:


> Just in time for Pitbull Pedal's holiday marketing campaign! ...a pit bull just killed a 4 year old in Detroit. Right up until the dog killed the little boy and seriously injured his mom yesterday, it was described as never before having shown signs of aggression.


this breed has a srsly negative rep for a reason.

wonder how many other products use them as a mascot...?

quick google search shows a motorcycle stand...don't see much else.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

SPlKE said:


> Speaking of which...
> 
> Just in time for Pitbull Pedal's holiday marketing campaign! ...a pit bull just killed a 4 year old in Detroit. Right up until the dog killed the little boy and seriously injured his mom yesterday, it was described as never before having shown signs of aggression.


Spike, you clearly missed it... We work for him. Don’t go taking a thread in a direction the OP doesn’t want, he is clear that is not OK. You, wait, WE need to know our place and keep things on track for the OPs original intent. What that is, I’m not sure. Perhaps a planned loss for tax purposes since the critique here has been not only brutal but very thoughtful and content sound. I can’t get my head around a retail troll taking such a beating and coming back again and again and again. Based on the behavior in these threads I wouldn’t use this product on a freaking bet. The OP seems to think safety questions have been addressed that are, as shown in the text, not even close to tested for the first time even!!!! Caveat emptor? 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

chad.trent said:


> Speaking as someone who has filed and been awarded many patents, I will just say that I hope you filed a provisional patent before putting your product out there for everyone to see. If not your patent can't be enforced as you made the concept public domain without protection.


We have actually 2 patents registered. Thanks




tlg said:


> So as I said... you have ZERO miles on a molded cleat.


Correct, we have zero on the molded cleat. But we have many miles on cleats that are also glass filled nylon, which are obviously weaker than a injection molded cleat with the fibers being more in line.



BubbaGump said:


> While obviously ethically questionable, wouldn't there be some legal issues here?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Absolutely not, it is just an axle. I would think that a patent ran out on an axle a hundred years ago. We just wanted to know right off the bat that we had plenty of strength.




QuiQuaeQuod said:


> Oh, if you FEEL that it must be so.


Please



SPlKE said:


> Words on a package only go so far in protecting you.
> 
> You can disclaim liability and responsibility all day long.
> 
> ...


Some of these responses are killing me. The only thing that we used was an axle, that again a patent would of run out 100 years ago. We just wanted to start with something proven to be strong enough to carry the weight.

As far as the words on the packaging, we will get someone smarter than I to help us with our legal obligations.

For real, and we're getting close.




tlg said:


> What are the mechanical properties of 'machined' glass filled nylon vs 'molded' glass filled nylon?
> 
> 
> Were it to come to a lawsuit, the injury attorney would undoubtedly find this website as part of their investigation. They would see all the warnings brought up and the subsequent dismissal of concern by Pitbull.
> ...


This is just your opinion obviously. Just about all of the cleats are injection molded, so I guess you have the same opinion of every molded cleat?

I'm not trying to convey dismissal of concern, before anything is actually sent from us into the world we will cross all t's and dot all i's legally.




SPlKE said:


> Speaking of which...
> 
> Just in time for Pitbull Pedal's holiday marketing campaign! ...a pit bull just killed a 4 year old in Detroit. Right up until the dog killed the little boy and seriously injured his mom yesterday, it was described as never before having shown signs of aggression.


It is still an animal, it went rogue. What can I say? 



Oxtox said:


> this breed has a srsly negative rep for a reason.
> 
> wonder how many other products use them as a mascot...?
> 
> quick google search shows a motorcycle stand...don't see much else.


Oh well, hopefully if we continue to use it everything will still work out.


----------



## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Just in time for Halloween we have gotten our first sample run of the cleat. It still has to go into the secondary mold to mold on the softer material for nonslip and sound deadening. Also there is a small red reflective tape that goes on the back of each cleat for safety concerns.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Correct, we have zero on the molded cleat. But we have many miles on cleats that are also glass filled nylon, which are obviously weaker than a injection molded cleat with the fibers being more in line.


No it's not obvious. Fibers don't miraculously line up in a mold, of varying shapes and thicknesses, where you may necessarily need them. Parts may be stronger, others may be weaker.

I ask again... What are the mechanical properties of 'machined' glass filled nylon vs 'molded' glass filled nylon? 




> This is just your opinion obviously. Just about all of the cleats are injection molded, so I guess you have the same opinion of every molded cleat?


This is just asinine. Your cleats don't operate just like all other cleats. 
Using your reasoning, all cleats hold like a pitpull... cause they're injection molded. 
I doubt other pedal manufacturers went straight to sales and production with their molded cleats prior to testing them. If they did, then I'd have the same opinion.

You're a fool if you just assume the fit, form, function, tolerances, and strength of a molded part is identical to a machined part.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Another person that is out there that is just wrong. I've spent thousands on facebook ads/etc around the country. *I'm just on this forum having fun with the interesting discussions.*


I find it perplexing how much time you have to "have fun with interesting discussions" on a forum. Time you could be using to develop and improve a product you intend to sell.

As TLG implied, you changed the product, you need to go back to square one on testing the product before it would be wise to sell it.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> No it's not obvious. Fibers don't miraculously line up in a mold, of varying shapes and thicknesses, where you may necessarily need them. Parts may be stronger, others may be weaker.
> 
> I ask again... What are the mechanical properties of 'machined' glass filled nylon vs 'molded' glass filled nylon?
> 
> ...


'
Thanks for your input and thoughts. But we have been riding with them for a long time, under a lot of stressful situations and before they actually go to market we will of finished further testing. But we are 100% confident in the strength of them.




Lombard said:


> I find it perplexing how much time you have to "have fun with interesting discussions" on a forum. Time you could be using to develop and improve a product you intend to sell.
> 
> As TLC implied, you changed the product, you need to go back to square one on testing the product before it would be wise to sell it.


Seems like a lot of people have a lot of extra time as well as their responses are seemingly instant. I own my own company and am free to do what I want to do.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Seems like a lot of people have a lot of extra time as well as their responses are seemingly instant.


I can't speak for others here other than some are retired and aren't trying to start up a company and sell a product.



Pitbull Pedal said:


> I own my own company and am free to do what I want to do.


Great entrepreneurial spirit! :thumbsup:


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Lombard said:


> I can't speak for others here other than some are retired and aren't trying to start up a company and sell a product.
> 
> Great entrepreneurial spirit! :thumbsup:


Thanks

Also the kickstarter went live today, we've sold a whopping 2 pedals so far & someone has donated a dollar. Life is good


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## xxl (Mar 19, 2002)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> ...we have been riding with them for a long time...
> 
> Correct, we have zero [miles] on the molded cleat.


OK.

I'm curious; what's the name of your own company?


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

xxl said:


> I'm curious; what's the name of your own company?


It's on Google


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## trailflow (Sep 7, 2014)

Do you have a plan B if the Kickstarter does not reach it's target ? Will the pedals still be made and sold ?

I have my doubts your kickstarter will reach it's target. You have IMO priced your pledges too low. You are looking to need to get 700 backers (give or take) in the 31 days. And your are expecting every backer to be based in the USA and offer no overseas shipping. Road cycling is more popular in the UK/Europe than the US. 

You havn't done much publicity on any of the major road cycling related review sites/blogs like Bikeradar.com, Bikerumor.com or Road.cc to name some. Gearjunkie is not a cycling website. 

Relying on a few forum posts. RBR is a ghost town and fb i dont think will bring enough exposure. Traffic to your KS page will be slow. 

Question. How can you offer free delivery on 700+/- packages ? Won't it eat a huge chunk out of the $35,000 ? I think this is a mistake to offer this. Anybody who can afford $50 can also afford to pay $10 shipping.

You are taking a risk getting the full pedals assembled overseas. Which i guess is in China. There is a real possibility your pedals will be copied and sold on sites like Aliexpress in next to no time. I've seen it happen with the Spurcycle Bell, Knog Oi Bell and the Rinsten Spring. Patents don't mean s**t in China.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

trailflow said:


> Do you have a plan B if the Kickstarter does not reach it's target ? Will the pedals still be made and sold ?
> 
> I have my doubts your kickstarter will reach it's target. You have IMO priced your pledges too low. You are looking to need to get 700 backers (give or take) in the 31 days. And your are expecting every backer to be based in the USA and offer no overseas shipping. Road cycling is more popular in the UK/Europe than the US.
> 
> ...


We are definitely going to produce the pedals and send at least 100 boxes out across the country for free to hopefully get 100 thumbs up on the units. We also hope to sell them online on our website/amazon/etc.

As far as our pricing I agree 100%, I think that with us trying to make it so reasonable people think that they must be junk. We have made a change to the kickstarter and web page as of today.

Unfortunately GearJunkie is the one that we went with. Once we have our first production run we will be sending full units to many people for their evaluation/approvals as everything that we have stated is true to the best of our knowledge.

Again you are correct about the shipping, we were just hoping to hit our goal with a price that was so good that it would be too good to pass up. We may of shot ourselves in the foot and people think that it is a low quality product, which it is not.

We do understand that, unfortunately our patent is only for the US and we are not trying to get rich off of this item. There should be plenty of sales in the US if we can get it rolling.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> As far as our pricing I agree 100%, I think that with us trying to make it so reasonable people think that they must be junk. We have made a change to the kickstarter and web page as of today.


So, to counteract the perception of them being junk, you are now claiming (on Kickstarter) that the current price is actually discounted 50-75% from the "normal" selling price. Congratulations, you've just adopted one of the tried-and-true tactics of sketchy marketing.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> As far as our pricing I agree 100%, I think that with us trying to make it so reasonable people think that they must be junk. We have made a change to the kickstarter and web page as of today.


OMG. If they are reasonable people, there may be a reason they think they're junk. Reasonable people would see through your 'marketing'.

Quite odd that rather than getting real world proof that your pedal isn't junk, you just use marketing tactics.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

To Pitbull guy:

Be sure to use the following phrases in your marketing materials:

Act Now!

Limited Time Offer!

As Seen on TV!

Special Offer!

Revolutionary New Product!

New and Improved!


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

SPlKE said:


> To Pitbull guy:
> 
> Be sure to use the following phrases in your marketing materials:


----------



## craiger_ny (Jun 24, 2014)

But wait there's more!

You get not one, but two pedals!


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

craiger_ny said:


> But wait there's more!
> 
> You get not one, but two pedals!


That is true.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mikelohmeyer/pitbull-bike-pedal-and-cleat-system
Pledge $90 or more
2X Pitbull Bike Pedals & Cleats

Pledge $130 or more
3X Pitbull Bike Pedals & Cleats


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Obviously there are some extremely negative people in the world and I'm dealing with 2 or 3 that are at the top of the food chain. You are correct that we are no marketing geniuses and we haven't paid top dollar for professional advertisement,videos,etc. We are just 2 people that have come up with an idea for a 360 degree pedal. No more and no less. In our opinion the other attempts have failed but we feel like we have succeeded. Therefore if you don't have anything positive to say about the pedal or any genuine constructive criticism please stop commenting on this thread. I refuse to get angry and say things that I can barely hold back. I wish everyone had the same ability.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Therefore if you don't have anything positive to say about the pedal or any genuine constructive criticism please stop commenting on this thread.


FYI this is a discussion forum. You brought your product here for discussion. Nobody is here just to stroke your ego. This isn't a platform to just hock your product.

YOU are using marketing tactics to sell your product rather than the merits of your product. That is genuine constructive criticism (which you clearly don't want)


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Obviously there are some extremely negative people in the world and I'm dealing with 2 or 3 that are at the top of the food chain. You are correct that we are no marketing geniuses and we haven't paid top dollar for professional advertisement,videos,etc. We are just 2 people that have come up with an idea for a 360 degree pedal. No more and no less. In our opinion the other attempts have failed but we feel like we have succeeded. Therefore if you don't have anything positive to say about the pedal or any genuine constructive criticism please stop commenting on this thread. I refuse to get angry and say things that I can barely hold back. I wish everyone had the same ability.


You shouldn't bottle it up inside. It's not healthy to do so.

You can speak frankly and candidly with us. We're on your side. We're just giving you the business, as Wally Cleaver would say. 

You should be glad we didn't just ignore you, as we've done with so many visionaries who have posted their revolutionary bike products on this forum.

If anything, we've made you stronger! 



You're welcome.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> FYI this is a discussion forum. You brought your product here for discussion. Nobody is here just to stroke your ego. This isn't a platform to just hock your product.
> 
> YOU are using marketing tactics to sell your product rather than the merits of your product. That is genuine constructive criticism (which you clearly don't want)


I feel that I'm perfectly fine with constructive criticism, and I don't need my ego stroked. I think that when some people speak it just comes across sarcastic vs as genuine constructive criticism.




SPlKE said:


> You shouldn't bottle it up inside. It's not healthy to do so.
> 
> You can speak frankly and candidly with us. We're on your side. We're just giving you the business, as Wally Cleaver would say.
> 
> ...


This is a perfect comment, you got your point across but isn't condescending. If it is suppose to be condescending then I guess I've missed it. I appreciate what everyone has said positive and negative.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> If you don't have anything positive to say about the pedal or any genuine constructive criticism please stop commenting on this thread.


You seem to think that constructive criticism and positive feedback are synonymous. They are not.



> I refuse to get angry and say things that I can barely hold back. I wish everyone had the same ability.


You're a saint among men.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Quick question for everyone. This is our first design for our packaging. It's recycled cardboard and simple black and white identification labeling. Keeps it simple and inexpensive. Thumbs up or thumbs down? Or if anyone has any constructive suggestions we are open to that as well.


Ya Know Pitbull, if nothing else I have to admire your thick skin. You've taken a lot of abuse on this board and continued to be polite. I initially thought you were a troll. Even though I won't be riding your pedals, I wish you luck. If you have the patience to take all the [email protected] handed out here like a gentleman, you have more patience than most. Easier to criticize than contribute.


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

pmf said:


> .....If you have the patience to take all the [email protected] handed out here like a gentleman, you have more patience than most. Easier to criticize than contribute.


"Like a gentleman"????? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

pmf said:


> ... and continued to be polite.


Sure. Unless you actually pay attention.



Pitbull Pedal said:


> Obviously there are some extremely negative people in the world and I'm dealing with 2 or 3 that are at the top of the food chain.


----------



## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Obviously there are some extremely negative people in the world and I'm dealing with 2 or 3 that are at the top of the food chain. You are correct that we are no marketing geniuses and we haven't paid top dollar for professional advertisement,videos,etc. We are just 2 people that have come up with an idea for a 360 degree pedal. No more and no less. In our opinion the other attempts have failed but we feel like we have succeeded. Therefore if you don't have anything positive to say about the pedal or any genuine constructive criticism please stop commenting on this thread. I refuse to get angry and say things that I can barely hold back. I wish everyone had the same ability.


Seriously? Oh wait, I once again forgot that this whole forum thingy works for you... What a pompous ass. You are a TROLL. Accept it and it feels better. You want to hawk your product here but tell people who can post and what to post? Haha. Unbelievable. If you don’t like the comments then YOU GO AWAY! You are the retail troll! No one here needs or wants you, it is you who needs and wants us... so long as we stroke your idea? Stop. On RBR you get the salty reality. You don’t like it, you go away. Boom. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

PBL450 said:


> Seriously? Oh wait, I once again forgot that this whole forum thingy works for you... What a pompous ass. You are a TROLL. Accept it and it feels better. You want to hawk your product here but tell people who can post and what to post? Haha. Unbelievable. If you don’t like the comments then YOU GO AWAY! You are the retail troll! No one here needs or wants you, it is you who needs and wants us... so long as we stroke your idea? Stop. On RBR you get the salty reality. You don’t like it, you go away. Boom.


What he said.....

You know, this guy's bluster and clueless bravado was entertaining for a while, but now I wish he would just STFU and leave.....but he seems to be a glutton for punishment.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

SPlKE said:


> To Pitbull guy:
> 
> Be sure to use the following phrases in your marketing materials:


Due to limited inventory, we are limiting each purchaser to 5 pairs of pedals, BUT if you order before midnight tomorrow, we will let you order 8 pars of pedals!


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I feel that I'm perfectly fine with constructive criticism, and I don't need my ego stroked. I think that when some people speak it just comes across sarcastic vs as genuine constructive criticism.


Come on dude! We're just having some fun with you. Remember, this is the internet where anonymity breeds hostility. :thumbsup:


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

A couple days ago the Kickstarter had 8 backers. Today it has 7.  Losing backers... that should tell you something.

23 days to go and you need 770 more backers. 

*All or nothing. This project will only be funded if it reaches its goal by Sat, November 30 2019 10:01 AM EST.*


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

pmf said:


> Ya Know Pitbull, if nothing else I have to admire your thick skin. You've taken a lot of abuse on this board and continued to be polite. I initially thought you were a troll. Even though I won't be riding your pedals, I wish you luck. If you have the patience to take all the [email protected] handed out here like a gentleman, you have more patience than most. Easier to criticize than contribute.


Thanks, my son works with me and he was able to keep me under control better than I would've thought I would of been able to.




No Time Toulouse said:


> "Like a gentleman"????? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!![/QUO=TE]
> You don't know me at all, I try to be pleasant with everyone.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Not looking good is it?


Is it? You have less than one backer/day. You need 30+ per day. Otherwise your kickstarter fails and everyone gets their money back and you'll get nothing. (is that good?)




> Again I think that we just have them way way under priced therefore people think that there must be zero quality, where we know that they work perfect.


This is the epitome of your failure.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> Is it? You have less than one backer/day. You need 30+ per day. Otherwise your kickstarter fails and everyone gets their money back and you'll get nothing. (is that good?)
> This is the epitome of your failure.


Unfortunately we did not have unlimited resources to hire a professional marketing company and go the high end direction. It really does not matter if we achieve the goal on the kickstarter or not as the pedal is definitely coming. We will be giving away well over 100 free boxes across the country to different cycling clubs/organizations and youtubers. Only time will tell if we are failures or not. I know some other people have created pedals that are similar to ours but we do feel that we have the bugs worked out and they truly do work as easily as I am saying. Everyone should be wishing us good luck with our product, don't you think?


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I don't think that was really bad at all considering some of the things that have been said.



I agree, for that one example. But if I were to review all of your posts (still none on riding, just on your pedal btw) I bet I could find multiple "not so bad" examples where your tone was less than "polite".


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Unfortunately we did not have unlimited resources to hire a professional marketing company and go the high end direction.


Most small companies do not hire professional marketing firms. But, they also do not routinely practice deceptive advertising, as you seem to be doing with your latest "50-75% off" claim. (As you clearly stated, you added that claim to change people's perception about the value of your pedals. It has nothing to do with the actual selling price.)


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> I agree, for that one example. But if I were to review all of your posts (still none on riding, just on your pedal btw) I bet I could find multiple "not so bad" examples where your tone was less than "polite".


I'm sure I have a few as I have definitely gotten frustrated before but I do always try to stay on the lighter side.




tomato coupe said:


> Most small companies do not hire professional marketing firms. But, they also do not routinely practice deceptive advertising, as you seem to be doing with your latest "50-75% off" claim. (As you clearly stated, you added that claim to change people's perception about the value of your pedals. It has nothing to do with the actual selling price.)


Let me try and explain myself, on the kickstarter campaign we were offering a set of pedals/3 sets of cleats/ and free shipping in the US. Now if you just start pricing any of the other quality pedals on the market you would have to say that you'd be somewhere around $125. Then cleats could cost $20, so you've got another $40 in our package and it could cost $25 in shipping. Therefore I am perfectly happy with stating the large savings at buying the early bird special. There isn't anything scientific about this it is just the way we are figuring the numbers. All of this is + or -


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Let me try and explain myself, on the kickstarter campaign we were offering a set of pedals/3 sets of cleats/ and free shipping in the US. Now if you just start pricing any of the other quality pedals on the market you would have to say that you'd be somewhere around $125. Then cleats could cost $20, so you've got another $40 in our package and it could cost $25 in shipping.


Who in the world would ever pay $25 for shipping... ever! :crazy::crazy::crazy:

I can get look or shimano pedals on Amazon for under $100. Free shipping.



> Everyone should be wishing us good luck with our product, don't you think?


I think you should test your product (independent of you and Roger) before selling it to people. So no, not gonna wish you luck for not doing your due diligence.


----------



## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> Who in the world would ever pay $25 for shipping... ever! :crazy::crazy::crazy:
> 
> I can get look or shimano pedals on Amazon for under $100. Free shipping.
> 
> I think you should test your product (independent of you and Roger) before selling it to people. So no, not gonna wish you luck for not doing your due diligence.



To ship something from FL to California could easily cost $25 I would believe. If I may ask, what is the main part of this system that you don't believe works as I say it does? The cleat is extremely strong as today I actually drove over it with my van 2 times, and there was no issue with it at all. Granted I was not on concrete but I don't think I need to compare a 200lb person with a van either. As far as pedals under $100, you obviously can get pedals for cheap. Do you have extremely low end pedals on your bike? Before I switched over to the ones we make, I had some high end look pedals. They weren't titanium but they were a lot more than $100. I'm just trying to satisfy everyone, doing the best that I can.


----------



## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Not looking good is it? Actually that one backer was myself as I wanted to make sure the account was set up properly. Again *I think that we just have them way way under priced* therefore people think that there must be zero quality, where we know that they work perfect.


What is your price again? FYI, my favorite pedals are Shimano SPD mountain bike pedals which range in the $30-60 range and I get thousands of miles out of them. Yes, I know roadie pedals can cost over $100.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> The cleat is extremely strong as today I actually drove over it with my van 2 times, and there was no issue with it at all.


Interesting product testing method.


----------



## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Let me try and explain myself, on the kickstarter campaign we were offering a set of pedals/3 sets of cleats/ and free shipping in the US. Now if you just start pricing any of the other quality pedals on the market you would have to say that you'd be somewhere around $125. Then cleats could cost $20, so you've got another $40 in our package and it could cost $25 in shipping. Therefore I am perfectly happy with stating the large savings at buying the early bird special. There isn't anything scientific about this it is just the way we are figuring the numbers. All of this is + or -


In an earlier thread, I (and others) asked if you could compete with SPD-style pedals that are readily available for less than $35. You repeatedly stated that your price would be competitive with those pedals. Are you now saying that your actual price is around $145, which is not very competitive? Or, are you saying that your actual price is $45, but you are adopting the "as compares to" sketchy marketing pitch?

(And please, don't repeat the line that you are not competing with SPD-style pedals. You are targeting beginning cyclists who have trouble clipping into their pedals, and they often buy easy-to-use two-sided SPD-style pedals because they are very easy to clip into.)


----------



## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> To ship something from FL to California could easily cost $25 I would believe.


C'mon man, do a little homework. That's less than $10.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> To ship something from FL to California could easily cost $25 I would believe.


OMG you're clueless. Small box 2 day priority mail is $8 coast to coast. 




> If I may ask, what is the main part of this system that you don't believe works as I say it does?


All of it. How about that?
The burden of proof is on you, not me. Your 'word' as the salesman is meaningless to me. We all know you repeatedly refuse to do independent evaluation. So I especially don't believe anything you say.




> The cleat is extremely strong as today I actually drove over it with my van 2 times, and there was no issue with it at all.


That's great... was your foot attached? Again you throw out meaningless anecdotes. I can drive over a piece of wood with a truck. Many times. And it'll still be intact. But that doesn't mean I want a cleat made of wood.


Granted I was not on concrete but I don't think I need to compare a 200lb person with a van either. As far as pedals under $100, you obviously can get pedals for cheap. Do you have extremely low end pedals on your bike? [/QUOTE]Look and Shimano have many quality (proven) pedals for under $100. 
And your pedals aren't high end.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> As far as pedals under $100, you obviously can get pedals for cheap. Do you have extremely low end pedals on your bike?



I run shimano pd-m424s on my mtbs, because I like the large platform and that they are resin so they have a nice feel when I grind over rocks compared to metal. 

On our road bikes? Whatever mtb style spds that were on deep sale last time we needed some. Because one system for all our bikes is nice.

Cheap stuff breaks, cheap stuff works poorly sooner rather than later. SPDs? Something that works, lasts, and causes no trouble might be inexpensive, but I would not call it cheap.


----------



## ogre (Dec 16, 2005)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> The cleat is extremely strong as today I actually drove over it with my van 2 times, and there was no issue with it at all. Granted I was not on concrete but I don't think I need to compare a 200lb person with a van either.


I would think that this was you, but this was on concrete and the test failed. What did you do, drive over them on grass?


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Lombard said:


> What is your price again? FYI, my favorite pedals are Shimano SPD mountain bike pedals which range in the $30-60 range and I get thousands of miles out of them. Yes, I know roadie pedals can cost over $100.


To answer your question as honest as possible we don't have a final cost determined for retail. There are many pedals out there that work perfectly fine that are inexpensive. We feel that our pedal belongs in the high end group of road bike pedals as they are stainless steel and we believe that they work the best and the most efficiently. We just want to be on the lower end of pricing on this type of pedal.



Lombard said:


> Interesting product testing method.


I agree that it is a little primitive, but if it shows a 5,000lb van rolling over it twice with no issues it should prove that the cleat is worthy.



tomato coupe said:


> In an earlier thread, I (and others) asked if you could compete with SPD-style pedals that are readily available for less than $35. You repeatedly stated that your price would be competitive with those pedals. Are you now saying that your actual price is around $145, which is not very competitive? Or, are you saying that your actual price is $45, but you are adopting the "as compares to" sketchy marketing pitch?
> 
> (And please, don't repeat the line that you are not competing with SPD-style pedals. You are targeting beginning cyclists who have trouble clipping into their pedals, and they often buy easy-to-use two-sided SPD-style pedals because they are very easy to clip into.)


In your pricing that you are bringing up right now it appears that I did not go back through Amazon and look up a particular type of pedal. What I was trying to state is that our pedals would be competitively priced with other road bike pedals on the higher end of the scale. We definitely want to be below their pricing as ours are all quality stainless steel and the efficiency of them we think works so well.




tomato coupe said:


> C'mon man, do a little homework. That's less than $10.


Amazing you are correct on the pricing. I had just sent a few items out at a much shorter distance and it was almost $10. When I made my statement I was wrong as I had estimated my number based off of what I had sent. Also there is time involved for packaging, and delivering to the shipping company. I'm not trying to nickel and dime but there is time involved.




tlg said:


> OMG you're clueless. Small box 2 day priority mail is $8 coast to coast.
> 
> All of it. How about that?
> The burden of proof is on you, not me. Your 'word' as the salesman is meaningless to me. We all know you repeatedly refuse to do independent evaluation. So I especially don't believe anything you say.
> ...


Look and Shimano have many quality (proven) pedals for under $100. 
And your pedals aren't high end.[/QUOTE]
We covered the price above this response.

For your and everyone's benefit, I am going to pursue heavily on getting a few third party responses. They will be coming as soon as I can get them worked out.

Just trying to show the strength of the glass filled nylon, lighten up.

Ok





QuiQuaeQuod said:


> I run shimano pd-m424s on my mtbs, because I like the large platform and that they are resin so they have a nice feel when I grind over rocks compared to metal.
> 
> On our road bikes? Whatever mtb style spds that were on deep sale last time we needed some. Because one system for all our bikes is nice.
> 
> Cheap stuff breaks, cheap stuff works poorly sooner rather than later. SPDs? Something that works, lasts, and causes no trouble might be inexpensive, but I would not call it cheap.


I agree, our pedal is being sold as a road bike pedal. They have a large 2.25" wide cleat to disperse the weight over a hardened road bike shoe sole. There are no hot spots.




ogre said:


> I would think that this was you, but this was on concrete and the test failed. What did you do, drive over them on grass?


Yes we did drive it over hardened dirt and grass that is right next to the asphalt outside, I did not think that it was fair to drive over it on the road as I don't think it would justify a 200lb rider riding on their bike. I think that I will drive over it on the asphalt just to see what happens though.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I agree that it is a little primitive, but if it shows a 5,000lb van rolling over it twice with no issues it should prove that the cleat is worthy.


It shows nothing. Absolutely nothing... other than your complete inability to understand strength of materials. It's quite scary that you're 'engineering' a product with this mindset.




> We definitely want to be below their pricing as ours are all quality stainless steel and the efficiency of them we think works so well.


What is 'non-quality' stainless steel?  




> Just trying to show the strength of the glass filled nylon, lighten up.
> 
> Yes we did drive it over hardened dirt and grass that is right next to the asphalt outside, I did not think that it was fair to drive over it on the road as I don't think it would justify a 200lb rider riding on their bike. I think that I will drive over it on the asphalt just to see what happens though


STOP! Just stop. This is idiotic.


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## ROAD&DIRT (Mar 27, 2009)

The pedals remind me of a broken pair of 1970ish welgo pedals missing the big clunky rubber pieces.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

road&dirt said:


> the peddles remind me of a broken pair of 1970ish welgo peddles missing the big clunky rubber pieces.


"pedals"...


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Pit Bull Pedals peddles pedals.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

SPlKE said:


> Pit Bull Pedals peddles pedals.


And there ya have it. It was easy, right? :thumbsup:


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## ROAD&DIRT (Mar 27, 2009)

cxwrench said:


> "pedals"...


Yep, corrected...realized the misspelling as I hit post while taking business call at the same time. didn't have chance until now, thanks chief!


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

_I agree that it is a little primitive, but if it shows a 5,000lb van rolling over it twice with no issues it should prove that the cleat is worthy._

worthy of what...? 

trying to convey the 'quality' of your products in such an absurd manner is making you a laughing-stock here. is that really the desired outcome? 

one would think that you'd cut your losses and refrain from embarrassing yourself further until you have something of actual substance to present to potential buyers.

the 'aw-shucks, just having fun' routine is beyond tired and only portrays your 'company' and products as jokes to be avoided in the marketplace.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> ...2.25" wide cleat ...


Make that spindle .001 inch (thought experiment, so assume the same stiffness and that it won't break). You think the forces on the foot would be identical?

I don't.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> It shows nothing. Absolutely nothing... other than your complete inability to understand strength of materials. It's quite scary that you're 'engineering' a product with this mindset.
> 
> 
> What is 'non-quality' stainless steel?
> ...


Sorry, I just thought it was a good indicator of how strong the material is. I believe that most cleats are made of a molded plastic.




ROAD&DIRT said:


> The pedals remind me of a broken pair of 1970ish welgo pedals missing the big clunky rubber pieces.


Tried to look up what you are talking about to no luck. They do have the same feeling as some aerolite pedals I think back in the 70s, but we do the bugs worked out.



Oxtox said:


> _I agree that it is a little primitive, but if it shows a 5,000lb van rolling over it twice with no issues it should prove that the cleat is worthy._
> 
> worthy of what...?
> 
> ...


I'm glad I was able to put a smile on your face, but a simple test of a car rolling over a product should show the every day person the high strength of the plastic I would think.




QuiQuaeQuod said:


> Make that spindle .001 inch (thought experiment, so assume the same stiffness and that it won't break). You think the forces on the foot would be identical?
> 
> I don't.


Not really for sure what you are saying as I'm not an engineer, and it sounds like you may be. We just have the human weight dispersed over the spindle & 2.25" nylon cleat. This is dispersed over a road bike shoe. Again with no hot spots.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> To answer your question as honest as possible we don't have a final cost determined for retail. There are many pedals out there that work perfectly fine that are inexpensive. We feel that our pedal belongs in the high end group of road bike pedals as they are stainless steel and we believe that they work the best and the most efficiently. We just want to be on the lower end of pricing on this type of pedal.


Nice dance around my question.  OK, let me rephrase this. What did you price your pedal at that you thought was too low?



Pitbull Pedal said:


> I agree that it is a little primitive, but if it shows a 5,000lb van rolling over it twice with no issues it should prove that the cleat is worthy.


Why am I reminded of this ad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C-e96m4730



Pitbull Pedal said:


> In your pricing that you are bringing up right now it appears that I did not go back through Amazon and look up a particular type of pedal. What I was trying to state is that our pedals would be *competitively priced* ......


Why do I always hear the word "competitive" when a salesman doesn't want to reveal an actual figure?


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

_I'm glad I was able to put a smile on your face, but a simple test of a car rolling over a product should show the every day person the high strength of the plastic I would think._

it wasn't a smile, it was a smirk.

blithely ignoring critical comments about your product/business model and continuing to babble about silly 'test' results...always the mark of an astute businessman.


----------



## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Not really for sure what you are saying as I'm not an engineer, and it sounds like you may be.


I am not an engineer. But having hit things with mallets, and having hit things with chisels, and being familiar with things like Newton's Cradle, I have some idea of how sharp forces travel *through* solids, and how smaller surface area concentrates those forces compared to a larger surface area.

Also, having ridden since the days of clips (with cleats), I know that smaller contact points on the pedal are associated with foot issues for riders. It is possible you have solved this problem, but given what you think is testing, and given your words on the board, probably not.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

SPlKE said:


> Pit Bull Pedals peddles pedals.


Pit Bull Pedals peddles pedals to pedalers and pedal peddlers.


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## xxl (Mar 19, 2002)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> I am not an engineer. But having hit things with mallets, and having hit things with chisels, and being familiar with things like Newton's Cradle, I have some idea of how sharp forces travel *through* solids, and how smaller surface area concentrates those forces compared to a larger surface area....


C'mon, hoo; what would a humble cabinet-maker know about the forces applied when hitting mallets and chisels on solid surfaces?


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Lombard said:


> Nice dance around my question.  OK, let me rephrase this. What did you price your pedal at that you thought was too low?
> Why am I reminded of this ad:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C-e96m4730
> Why do I always hear the word "competitive" when a salesman doesn't want to reveal an actual figure?


For the kickstarter only it was $45. That was for a set of pedals which will be chromemoly center axle with a stainless steel outer axle, three sets of cleats, and free shipping in the U.S. Once we thought about it a little more it just seemed way too low. If cleats are $15 or $20, shipping is whatever amount and high quality material in the pedals is used with all these factors we just think that $45 is too low.

That is a hysterical ad, well done.

We have never had these for sale as far as a retail price. Unfortunately we only had them under priced for the kickstarter to make it a great deal for any potential investor.




Oxtox said:


> _I'm glad I was able to put a smile on your face, but a simple test of a car rolling over a product should show the every day person the high strength of the plastic I would think._
> 
> it wasn't a smile, it was a smirk.
> 
> blithely ignoring critical comments about your product/business model and continuing to babble about silly 'test' results...always the mark of an astute businessman.


OMG lighten up. I am a simple cabinet man that has come up with what we believe a wonderful idea on a bike pedal system. I don't have any formal degrees in marketing, we are just trying to get our point across in simple everyday terms.




QuiQuaeQuod said:


> I am not an engineer. But having hit things with mallets, and having hit things with chisels, and being familiar with things like Newton's Cradle, I have some idea of how sharp forces travel *through* solids, and how smaller surface area concentrates those forces compared to a larger surface area.
> 
> Also, having ridden since the days of clips (with cleats), I know that smaller contact points on the pedal are associated with foot issues for riders. It is possible you have solved this problem, but given what you think is testing, and given your words on the board, probably not.


I'm sorry for your last few words in your statement, we are just trying to do our best to get our point across.


----------



## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> For the kickstarter only it was $45. That was for a set of pedals which will be chromemoly center axle with a stainless steel outer axle, three sets of cleats, and free shipping in the U.S. Once we thought about it a little more it just seemed way too low. If cleats are $15 or $20, shipping is whatever amount and high quality material in the pedals is used with all these factors we just think that $45 is too low.


$45 too low? Probably. Cheapos like me are unlikely to be enticed by your product anyway. Cleats are almost always included as part of the pedals, so not really a good idea to price them separately. I certainly wouldn't price the package over $100. Maybe $60-75.



Pitbull Pedal said:


> OMG lighten up.




Come on! What do you expect from a guy with a shark as his avatar.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Lombard said:


> $45 too low? Probably. Cheapos like me are unlikely to be enticed by your product anyway. Cleats are almost always included as part of the pedals, so not really a good idea to price them separately. I certainly wouldn't price the package over $100. Maybe $60-75.
> 
> Come on! What do you expect from a guy with a shark as his avatar.


Yeah this package came with 3 sets of cleats for the kickstarter campaign only. We are definitely going to be less than $100, that is with chromemoly and stainless steel.

True, the shark is getting the same reputation as the pitbull pedals. Just a shark, just a dog. Right?


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Yeah this package came with 3 sets of cleats for the kickstarter campaign only. We are definitely going to be less than $100, that is with chromemoly and stainless steel.


I'm not sure I understand. Why 3 sets of cleats for one set of pedals?


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Lombard said:


> I'm not sure I understand. Why 3 sets of cleats for one set of pedals?


Perhaps they wear out fast.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mikelohmeyer/pitbull-bike-pedal-and-cleat-system/posts

$271 pledged of $35,000 goal
7 backers

*Funding Canceled
Funding for this project was canceled by the project creator on Nov 11 2019*


----------



## BubbaGump (Feb 17, 2015)

tlg said:


> Perhaps they wear out fast.


Well, considering he completely scrapped the design that he's rigorously tested these pedals with for a new material, he's got no idea how long they will be effective. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## xxl (Mar 19, 2002)

tlg said:


> ...
> 
> *Funding Canceled
> Funding for this project was canceled by the project creator on Nov 11 2019*



A smart move. :thumbsup:


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

tlg said:


> Perhaps they wear out fast.


Well to be fair, they are metal. Could they wear out any faster than the plastic 3-hole road cleats?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

tlg said:


> Perhaps they wear out fast.


How would anyone know after the less-than-extensive independent testing they've had done?


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Lombard said:


> Well to be fair, they are metal.


No they're not. That was the whole reason for 'driving over them'.



Pitbull Pedal said:


> I think maybe something has been missed along the way. We have been riding with the cleat machined out of a block of glass filled nylon and have had no issues. We do feel that it will be even stronger when all of the fibers line up in the molding process.





Pitbull Pedal said:


> To get the price down dramatically we are going to make the cleat with glass filled nylon.





Pitbull Pedal said:


> Just in time for Halloween we have gotten our first sample run of the cleat. It still has to go into the secondary mold to mold on the softer material for nonslip and sound deadening.





> Could they wear out any faster than the plastic 3-hole road cleats?


Yes considering the surface area you walk on is considerable smaller, the load per square inch will be much larger.


----------



## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

tlg said:


> No they're not. That was the whole reason for 'driving over them'.


Oh yeah, that's right, cost cutting. Sorry, not for me then. I only ride pedals which use metal cleats. Good ol' reliable Shimano SPD's. I wear shoes out faster than I wear cleats out.



tlg said:


> Yes considering the surface area you walk on is considerable smaller, the load per square inch will be much larger.


I can't count how many worn out plastic left road cleats riders have shown me. They wear out from clipping in and out.


----------



## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

tlg said:


> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mikelohmeyer/pitbull-bike-pedal-and-cleat-system/posts
> 
> $271 pledged of $35,000 goal
> 7 backers
> ...


And, so ends the saga......


----------



## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Lombard said:


> I'm not sure I understand. Why 3 sets of cleats for one set of pedals?


It was just as a gift to make the package even more bang for your buck.



tlg said:


> Perhaps they wear out fast.


Has nothing to do with wearing out, we were just trying to make a sweet deal for any potential backer.



tlg said:


> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mikelohmeyer/pitbull-bike-pedal-and-cleat-system/posts
> 
> $271 pledged of $35,000 goal
> 7 backers
> ...


Yeah I talked to my graphics guy yesterday and we decided to pull the kickstarter down. When we went into this venture we knew there was a 70% failure rate with kickstarter. So we tried to make the deal exceptionally good. I think that people remembered the old aerolite pedals and a couple different ones that look similar to ours that were no good as we worked out the issues in ours. With the added cleats it is like its too good to be true, so it must be junk. Oh well, we gave it a shot.




BubbaGump said:


> Well, considering he completely scrapped the design that he's rigorously tested these pedals with for a new material, he's got no idea how long they will be effective.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


As far as down to the day you are correct, they are a typical glass filled nylon with a yellow non slip tip across the entire surface. Basically just like all other cleats.




xxl said:


> A smart move. :thumbsup:






Lombard said:


> Well to be fair, they are metal. Could they wear out any faster than the plastic 3-hole road cleats?


Yes, on our website throughout time there were metal cleats. But the final product that we are going with is glass filled nylon. Like basically all other standard cleats



cxwrench said:


> How would anyone know after the less-than-extensive independent testing they've had done?


These cleats like I have mentioned are like any other plastic cleat. They all have about the same life expectancy.




tlg said:


> No they're not. That was the whole reason for 'driving over them'.
> 
> 
> Yes considering the surface area you walk on is considerable smaller, the load per square inch will be much larger.


The axle is riding across the 2.25" nylon cleat on top of a hardened sole road bike shoe. I think that the weight would be evenly dispersed. 



Lombard said:


> Oh yeah, that's right, cost cutting. Sorry, not for me then. I only ride pedals which use metal cleats. Good ol' reliable Shimano SPD's. I wear shoes out faster than I wear cleats out.
> 
> I can't count how many worn out plastic left road cleats riders have shown me. They wear out from clipping in and out.


The plastic cleats are meant to be an inexpensive and disposable item. But unless you are dragging your feet across the asphalt they should last for a long time.




No Time Toulouse said:


> And, so ends the saga......


The saga is just beginning. We just gave kickstarter a try knowing that there is a typical 70% failure rate on the crowdsourcing pages. So keep your keyboard handy as I'm sure there will be plenty to talk about throughout the upcoming months.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I think that people remembered the old aerolite pedals and a couple different ones that look similar to ours that were no good as we worked out the issues in ours. With the added cleats it is like its too good to be true, so it must be junk.


That's what you wish to believe. 
Or perhaps.... the people on kickstarter see the same things as the overwhelming amount of people here and other sites who have pointed out all the issues with your design. 




> These cleats like I have mentioned are like any other plastic cleat. They all have about the same life expectancy.


No they don't. And yours is not the same. The surface area which you walk on/push off with is smaller. It will wear faster. 




> The axle is riding across the 2.25" nylon cleat on top of a hardened sole road bike shoe. I think that the weight would be evenly dispersed.


You need to stop 'thinking'. This has nothing to do with the axle. As I said "_the *surface area you walk on* is considerable smaller, the load per square inch will be much larger._". This is very simple math (like 4th grade). 




> The plastic cleats are meant to be an inexpensive and disposable item. But unless you are dragging your feet across the asphalt they should last for a long time.


'Should'? Of course you have no real data. 

How does someone know when your cleat is worn and should be replaced?


----------



## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Yeah I talked to my graphics guy yesterday and we decided to pull the kickstarter down. When we went into this venture we knew there was a 70% failure rate with kickstarter. So we tried to make the deal exceptionally good. I think that people remembered the old aerolite pedals and a couple different ones that look similar to ours that were no good as we worked out the issues in ours.
> 
> With the added cleats it is like its too good to be true, so it must be junk.


You really are entirely devoid of any objectiveness about your project. The Kickstarter did not fail because people associated your pedals with Aerolites, and it didn't fail because your pedals were priced too low. It failed because people did not see any reason to buy your pedals.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> The plastic cleats are meant to be an inexpensive and disposable item. But unless you are dragging your feet across the asphalt they should last for a long time.


Define "long time". For most, plastic road cleats last a few thousand miles. Medal mountain bike cleats last longer than the shoes.



tlg said:


> How does someone know when your cleat is worn and should be replaced?


Ummm, usually when they can't clip in or worse yet, when they can't clip out.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Lombard said:


> Ummm, usually when they can't clip in or worse yet, when they can't clip out.


Better yet... when they reach the wear indicators.

I prefer not to be in the middle of a ride and find I can't clip in/out.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

tlg said:


> Better yet... when they reach the wear indicators.
> 
> I prefer not to be in the middle of a ride and find I can't clip in/out.


Sadly, many riders don't find out until they can't clip out. There have been a couple in instances where I had to help someone pull a shoe out of a pedal.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> That's what you wish to believe.
> Or perhaps.... the people on kickstarter see the same things as the overwhelming amount of people here and other sites who have pointed out all the issues with your design.
> 
> 
> ...


You can believe what you want to believe, but we have worked out the issues. That is why we're going to be sending out roughly 100 sets of pedals as samples across the country to bike shops/clubs/etc. We're actually going to give a few sets of pedals and a display free of charge to all of our local bike shops. If they sell them they keep the money themselves, if they sell them and need more we will restock what was sold and start looking for a profit.

Maybe a little bit, I cannot be for sure. Our pad runs all of the way across the 2.25", the other clip in pedals only have 3 small spots to make contact with the ground.

OMG these aren't walking shoes whatsoever. They are not intended for long walks down to the ice cream store. They are road bike shoes, you clip in and out, get out to walk minimally to get a drink from a store and clip back in. They are perfectly fine to walk in just like the video on our website.

Like in the video on the website I walked 2 consecutive miles on an abrasive concrete sidewalk. That's right, 2 MILES, and they still worked perfectly fine. I cannot say anymore than what was personally done.




tomato coupe said:


> You really are entirely devoid of any objectiveness about your project. The Kickstarter did not fail because people associated your pedals with Aerolites, and it didn't fail because your pedals were priced too low. It failed because people did not see any reason to buy your pedals.


Again, obviously the 5 or 6 extremely negative people on this forum would not be a potential buyer of our pedals. I cannot help that. I can only say that they do work exactly the way that I am saying.




Lombard said:


> Define "long time". For most, plastic road cleats last a few thousand miles. Medal mountain bike cleats last longer than the shoes.
> 
> 
> 
> Ummm, usually when they can't clip in or worse yet, when they can't clip out.


I'm only referring to when you are not on your bike. They are proven to last at least 2 miles of aggressive walking on a concrete sidewalk, I personally achieved it. That is a lot of rest stops to pick up a gatorade or a snack at a store during a group ride.

On our cleats we recommend you change the cleat when the front edge becomes fairly sharp and loses its flat area. They will still work but this would be a good point to change them.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> That is why we're going to be sending out roughly 100 sets of pedals as samples across the country to bike shops/clubs/etc. We're actually going to give a few sets of pedals and a display free of charge to all of our local bike shops. If they sell them they keep the money themselves, if they sell them and need more we will restock what was sold and start looking for a profit.


This is not a bad idea. I hope you have a means of tracking feedback (positive and negative).




> OMG these aren't walking shoes whatsoever. They are not intended for long walks down to the ice cream store. They are road bike shoes, you clip in and out, get out to walk minimally to get a drink from a store and clip back in.


Riding a bike requires walking, putting your feet down, and pushing off to start. This all wears the cleat.

I ask again, How does someone know when your cleat is worn and should be replaced?


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

Lombard said:


> For most, plastic road cleats last a few thousand miles.


not sure how you came up with this random claim.

my last pair of Look cleats lasted 19K miles...the right side was becoming difficult to use at that point, but the left side was only slightly worn.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

tomato coupe said:


> You really are entirely devoid of any objectiveness about your project. The Kickstarter did not fail because people associated your pedals with Aerolites, and it didn't fail because your pedals were priced too low. It failed because people did not see any reason to buy your pedals.





Pitbull Pedal said:


> Again, obviously the 5 or 6 extremely negative people on this forum would not be a potential buyer of our pedals. I cannot help that. I can only say that they do work exactly the way that I am saying.


You just supported my point that you have no objectivity. Your Kickstarter campaign did not fail because of Aerolite, because of the low price, or because of 5 or 6 people on this forum. It failed because people, in general, did not see value in what you were offering. You need to come to grips with that.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Oxtox said:


> not sure how you came up with this random claim.
> 
> my last pair of Look cleats lasted 19K miles...the right side was becoming difficult to use at that point, but the left side was only slightly worn.


Anecdotal, yes, but not random. What can I say, if you are good at track stands, your cleats will obviously last longer. I can assure you these people did not have anywhere near that many miles on their cleats.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Again, obviously the 5 or 6 extremely negative people on this forum would not be a potential buyer of our pedals.


Up from 2-3 a week ago.


----------



## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

Mod's can we move this to The Lounge? Clearly its run its course. 

This...










... is getting old


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> This is not a bad idea. I hope you have a means of tracking feedback (positive and negative).
> 
> 
> Riding a bike requires walking, putting your feet down, and pushing off to start. This all wears the cleat.
> ...


We hope to have something linked into our website for responses.

I don't know how you possibly push off with the cleat. When I'm starting off I prefer to have my left foot clipped in and push down on my pedal. While that happens my right foot comes straight up and clips into the right pedal. There is no movement across the pavement at all. Maybe you do something different.

I mentioned that we have a nonslip rubber bottom. Basically like other cleats are. From there it turns into the glass filled nylon. Once the front has worn throught the rubber and through the flat area of the nylon cleat, at that point we would recommend changing the cleat. It doesn't have to be changed at all, and would still have plenty of life in it. 



Oxtox said:


> not sure how you came up with this random claim.
> 
> my last pair of Look cleats lasted 19K miles...the right side was becoming difficult to use at that point, but the left side was only slightly worn.


That is an amazing amount of miles. The only thing that I can think of is when you walk you aren't walking perfectly even on each foot. Maybe one foot drags the pavement a little bit without you even being aware of it. That would wear out one faster than the other.



tomato coupe said:


> You just supported my point that you have no objectivity. Your Kickstarter campaign did not fail because of Aerolite, because of the low price, or because of 5 or 6 people on this forum. It failed because people, in general, did not see value in what you were offering. You need to come to grips with that.


That is a valuable opinion of yours, unfortunately we do believe that our pedal has a niche in the pedal industry. We know that we are the easiest and fastest to engage. If we make a titanium set, we could even be the lightest on the market.



QuiQuaeQuod said:


> Up from 2-3 a week ago.


I'm not keeping track of unhappy people. I just threw a random number out as it seems to be the same few people cannot find anything positive about the system that they have never experienced.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I don't know how you possibly push off with the cleat.


I'm continually amazed at how someone who is designing a bicycle pedal knows very little about riding bicycles.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> That is an amazing amount of miles. The only thing that I can think of is when you walk you aren't walking perfectly even on each foot. Maybe one foot drags the pavement a little bit without you even being aware of it. That would wear out one faster than the other.


not much of a mystery about the L/R wear differences. I simply don't walk anywhere on most of my rides. 

the right foot is unclipped at places that require a full stop and some amount of wear occurs when the cleat makes contact with the asphalt. the left shoe is is only clipped in/out once.


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## BubbaGump (Feb 17, 2015)

tlg said:


> I'm continually amazed at how someone who is designing a bicycle pedal knows very little about riding bicycles.


But if he actually had learned how to clip in, we never would have been blessed by this amazing design, nor his glowing personality, nor would we have ever learned of Roger. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> That is an amazing amount of miles. The only thing that I can think of is when you walk you aren't walking perfectly even on each foot. Maybe one foot drags the pavement a little bit without you even being aware of it. That would wear out one faster than the other.


From what I have seen, wear on plastic road cleats does not happen from walking anywhere near as much as from clipping in and out of the pedal.....that is unless you are a shuffler.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> I'm continually amazed at how someone who is designing a bicycle pedal knows very little about riding bicycles.


Are you serious? You cannot be. You think when he is saying push off, he's saying it with the foot that is on the ground? No way. He is saying to push off with the foot that is engaged with the clip. Then the other pedal just rotates up and you clip in. That is at least what I am seeing. That is my opinion.



Oxtox said:


> not much of a mystery about the L/R wear differences. I simply don't walk anywhere on most of my rides.
> 
> the right foot is unclipped at places that require a full stop and some amount of wear occurs when the cleat makes contact with the asphalt. the left shoe is is only clipped in/out once.


Exactly right, people don't buy these to walk in a marathon. There is so much negativity about walking in road bike shoes, it is ridiculous. Anyway for me personally when I come to a stop that I know is going to be for over 30 seconds, I unclip both feet. I understand a lot of people leave one shoe clipped in. That is just how they ride though.



BubbaGump said:


> But if he actually had learned how to clip in, we never would have been blessed by this amazing design, nor his glowing personality, nor would we have ever learned of Roger.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


See! You have a glass half full attitude, which I appreciate.



Lombard said:


> From what I have seen, wear on plastic road cleats does not happen from walking anywhere near as much as from clipping in and out of the pedal.....that is unless you are a shuffler.


In my opinion 75% wear is from walking/shuffling.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> In my opinion 75% wear is from walking/shuffling.


Can I ask what that opinion is based on? I think real world facts would disagree with your opinion.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Lombard said:


> Can I ask what that opinion is based on? I think real world facts would disagree with your opinion.


I guess I'd need to see your real world facts. I know how dense glass filled nylon is and I just cannot see it wearing anywhere near as fast by clipping as it would by walking. Especially if you shuffled at all.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I guess I'd need to see your real world facts. I know how dense glass filled nylon is and I just cannot see it wearing anywhere near as fast by clipping as it would by walking. Especially if you shuffled at all.


I don't think most people shuffle.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Are you serious? You cannot be. You think when he is saying push off, he's saying it with the foot that is on the ground? No way. He is saying to push off with the foot that is engaged with the clip. Then the other pedal just rotates up and you clip in. That is at least what I am seeing. That is my opinion.


You could just look at the video and see with your eyes that his left foot is.... pushing off. This causes increased wear (this stuff isn't rocket science) and why one side wears faster.

Seriously dude... do you even ride bikes?


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Lombard said:


> I don't think most people shuffle.


Shuffle or not, cleats are a disposable item. As long as you get adequate wear out of them they have served their purpose. Again this is my opinion.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> You could just look at the video and see with your eyes that his left foot is.... pushing off. This causes increased wear (this stuff isn't rocket science) and why one side wears faster.
> 
> Seriously dude... do you even ride bikes?


I'm staying in total control of this conversation like I always do. I ride a minimum of 75 miles a week every week, no matter what. Everyone I would have to think rides a little different. I just don't see why anyone would push off with the foot on the ground when they simply have to stand up on the foot that is clipped in, and that would accelerate you forward to simply clip in with the other foot.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I guess I'd need to see your real world facts. I know how dense glass filled nylon is and I just cannot see it wearing anywhere near as fast by clipping as it would by walking.


Showing your breadth of engineering knowledge again.

Lead has a density of 700 lbs/cu-ft. Titanium has a density of 280 lbs/cu-ft, almost 2/3rds less. Do you think the 'denser' lead will wear less than titanium?


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I'm staying in total control of this conversation like I always do.


No, you don't control this conversation. Because you don't control other people's contributions to the conversation.

You control what you say about your product and testing, you don't control how people respond.

IME, people who say they are in total control are not, or fear they are not.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> Showing your breadth of engineering knowledge again.
> 
> Lead has a density of 700 lbs/cu-ft. Titanium has a density of 280 lbs/cu-ft, almost 2/3rds less. Do you think the 'denser' lead will wear less than titanium?


I appreciate your knowledge, like I had said earlier I'm just a cabinet builder who has come up with what we think is a wonderful idea. We know how long other cleats/materials last as we have ridden with them in the past. Unfortunately that is the best that I can give you.



QuiQuaeQuod said:


> No, you don't control this conversation. Because you don't control other people's contributions to the conversation.
> 
> You control what you say about your product and testing, you don't control how people respond.
> 
> IME, people who say they are in total control are not, or fear they are not.


I don't know exactly what you are trying to say. But we have made complete design changes since we have been on this forum. The whole front of the cleat is based off of someones input and adding the large 5/8" diameter blunt end to the pedal is from a conversation on here.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I appreciate your knowledge, like I had said earlier I'm just a cabinet builder...


No one in the marketplace cares about your excuses for your ignorance. Saying that line over and over again is not helping.



Pitbull Pedal said:


> I don't know exactly what you are trying to say.


Try reading what you wrote, and then what I wrote in response. Then think about the meaning of the words as written.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Shuffle or not, cleats are a disposable item. As long as you get adequate wear out of them they have served their purpose. Again this is my opinion.


And what is your definition of "adequate wear"? How much do you think people would be willing to spend on replacement cleats every n number of miles?


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> But we have made complete design changes since we have been on this forum. The whole front of the cleat is based off of someones input and adding the large 5/8" diameter blunt end to the pedal is from a conversation on here.


That was me. You're welcome.




QuiQuaeQuod said:


> No one in the marketplace cares about your excuses for your ignorance. Saying that line over and over again is not helping.


Yea, constantly saying 'I really don't know what I'm doing, I'm just winging it' isn't going to give people confidence in your product.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

tlg said:


> Lead has a density of 700 lbs/cu-ft. Titanium has a density of 280 lbs/cu-ft, almost 2/3rds less. Do you think the 'denser' lead will wear less than titanium?


So, hardness and brittleness would be more relevant factors to the issue at hand? Color me shocked!

Not at all related, but I had a very old pair of Sidi's Dominators that I loved, my present to myself for defending my dissertation. After close to 20 years, the sole literally started to fall apart, to crumble. I can't complain, but I thought they would crack or break before they de-rezzed.

Damn fine shoes. RIP.

Back to hardness, the replacements for them had different material for the sole, noticeably harder. Which makes hike a bike over boulders not quite as easy. But they do get less chewed up, that's for sure.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> ... we do believe that our pedal has a niche in the pedal industry.


Actually, you don't have a niche. One of the problems with your business plan is you're simultaneously chasing multiple niches, while not fully satisfying the needs of any one of them. 



> If we make a titanium set, we could even be the lightest on the market.


What is the weight of the present, stainless steel pedals, including cleats?


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## trailflow (Sep 7, 2014)

Is the metal cleat going to still be available ? If you want to differentiate your pedals from others then i think it's a good idea to still make the steel cleat, at whatever expense it is, for the extra durability and longevity they should provide. So there is another advantage to your pedals on others. Solely going with plastic cleats will make your pedals not much different from the rest out there. 

I think there is demand for a steel cleat. I've been using SPD-SL and SH11 plastic cleats for the past 9 years. I got sick of them wearing out in 6 months in UK weather. And due to my location i am forced to have to put my foot down alot and ride through dirt tracks to get to good riding spots. This accelerated the wear and tear. The worst apart about it was the engagement would degrade and become worst and worst. Until the point they were dangerous. As your foot could easily slip out or not clip in fully. 

I am not a fan of plastic cleats. They are flawed in design for anything less than perfect dry weather. I'm done with buying them over and over. I think they exist to squeeze more money out of consumers. Common sense says metal is a better material for the punishment they have to endure. I have since moved over to SPD with metal cleats and they do everything right.

I havn't touched my metal cleats in a year, there is no degradation of clipping in/out. It feels the same as new. I dont think any pedal no matter how good or clever is it, could force me back to plastic cleats.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> No one in the marketplace cares about your excuses for your ignorance. Saying that line over and over again is not helping.
> 
> Try reading what you wrote, and then what I wrote in response. Then think about the meaning of the words as written.


There is no ignorance here in my opinion, as I have been riding for an extremely long time and we have done countless hours of research and testing to come up with the pedal that we have. We have worked out the bugs that others could not.

You are correct, I had misspoke when I typed that statement. I was trying only to refer to myself, to keep myself in control and not lash out strongly at other people on the forum when they make things personal. My bad.




Lombard said:


> And what is your definition of "adequate wear"? How much do you think people would be willing to spend on replacement cleats every n number of miles?


Again we haven't gotten to actual pricing on everything yet, we are still working on manufacturing at the moment. I can assure you that our cleats will be priced correctly. As far as the wear goes I don't know how many actual miles of biking you would do to accumulate 2 miles of walking on a concrete sidewalk, but that has been proven that you can with our cleats.



tlg said:


> That was me. You're welcome.
> 
> 
> Yea, constantly saying 'I really don't know what I'm doing, I'm just winging it' isn't going to give people confidence in your product.


They don't have to have any confidence in this cabinet man. What they need to do is see the final product and ride with it. Like I had said we will be sending out many boxes across the country and many bike shops will get a free inventory to start out with, if all goes well.

Thank you again for the suggestion on the blunt end. Also not that it has ever shown any signs of slipping, this would prevent a shoe from ever ever slipping off the end of the pedal in a hard sprint.



tomato coupe said:


> Actually, you don't have a niche. One of the problems with your business plan is you're simultaneously chasing multiple niches, while not fully satisfying the needs of any one of them.
> 
> 
> What is the weight of the present, stainless steel pedals, including cleats?


As of right now I'm not disclosing that information completely, it will come out later on as we have made some changes.



trailflow said:


> Is the metal cleat going to still be available ? If you want to differentiate your pedals from others then i think it's a good idea to still make the steel cleat, at whatever expense it is, for the extra durability and longevity they should provide. So there is another advantage to your pedals on others. Solely going with plastic cleats will make your pedals not much different from the rest out there.
> 
> I think there is demand for a steel cleat. I've been using SPD-SL and SH11 plastic cleats for the past 9 years. I got sick of them wearing out in 6 months in UK weather. And due to my location i am forced to have to put my foot down alot and ride through dirt tracks to get to good riding spots. This accelerated the wear and tear. The worst apart about it was the engagement would degrade and become worst and worst. Until the point they were dangerous. As your foot could easily slip out or not clip in fully.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the thought, we did feel the same way. But unfortunately we are basing our pedal as a road bike pedal. Even with the stainless steel pedal, the abrasive concrete sidewalks wear the metal down. It did take a couple years but it will wear it down. They are just so much harder to produce.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

https://youtu.be/RTdHBUDgI_4

I came across this video on GCN. They even included some of their bloopers trying to get into their pedal. I can just tell you that our pedals are much quicker and easier to use than the standard pedals used here.


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## BubbaGump (Feb 17, 2015)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> https://youtu.be/RTdHBUDgI_4
> 
> I came across this video on GCN. They even included some of their bloopers trying to get into their pedal. I can just tell you that our pedals are much quicker and easier to use than the standard pedals used here.


You should send your pedals to GCN for review. The exposure would propel your sales into the stratosphere IF they are all that you claim they are. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> They don't have to have any confidence in this cabinet man.


 If they have any sense they do. Otherwise....



> What they need to do is see the final product and ride with it. .


That is called being a guinea pig, test subject, beta tester.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Pitbull: 

How much weight and dynamic load have you put on the pedals to stress them to the point of failure? 

I ask because my greatest fear when standing while climbing a steep grade is that a pedal will break and some sharp metal will butterfly my calf like a shrimp (in addition to my top bar hammering my family jewels up into my lungs).

When I ride alone in this situation, I actually visualize how I would quickly break out and use a spare tube as a tourniquet before I lost consciousness or went into shock.

So, as a 200+ pounder who rides hard and pushes up the steepest climbs in my region, this is important to me.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

BubbaGump said:


> You should send your pedals to GCN for review. The exposure would propel your sales into the stratosphere IF they are all that you claim they are.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Thanks, we will definitely be sending a set to them and all the other testing/review companies out there once we have the full sets packaged.



tlg said:


> If they have any sense they do. Otherwise....
> 
> That is called being a guinea pig, test subject, beta tester.


Everything that I have spoken is to the best of my ability and the truth, but those are just words coming across the computer. Once we get the full product boxed, I guess you could say guinea pigs/etc will get the full box mailed to them. Hopefully we will get all good responses from them as they work like we have said, and if they do not like them they can throw them away. All of this will be done at no cost to anyone but us.


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## BubbaGump (Feb 17, 2015)

SPlKE said:


> Pitbull:
> 
> How much weight and dynamic load have you put on the pedals to stress them to the point of failure?
> 
> ...


I mean, have you seen the amount of force Roger puts through these things? 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

BubbaGump said:


> I mean, have you seen the amount of force Roger puts through these things?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Roger is a monster. But I'm monsterer.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

tomato coupe said:


> What is the weight of the present, stainless steel pedals, including cleats?





Pitbull Pedal said:


> As of right now I'm not disclosing that information completely, it will come out later on as we have made some changes.


Why not? That's one of the few bits of objective information you could actually provide, and it's trivial to measure.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tomato coupe said:


> Why not? That's one of the few bits of objective information you could actually provide, and it's trivial to measure.



I actually went to the post office to get them weighed a while back. I cannot remember what the weight was, except that the PO only weighs in oz and not grams so I didn't write it down and I do not remember what it was. But I could go back and weigh it again and convert it. Hindsight I should of written it down though.


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## Backdash (Jan 26, 2016)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I actually went to the post office to get them weighed a while back. I cannot remember what the weight was, except that the PO only weighs in oz and not grams so I didn't write it down and I do not remember what it was. But I could go back and weigh it again and convert it. Hindsight I should of written it down though.


yea go back to the post office to weigh them


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I actually went to the post office to get them weighed a while back. I cannot remember what the weight was, except that the PO only weighs in oz and not grams so I didn't write it down and I do not remember what it was. But I could go back and weigh it again and convert it. Hindsight I should of written it down though.


You need to get a scale and weigh the pedals. Weight is routinely listed in the specs of most bike components and, like it or not, it's an important factor for many cyclists.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Yeah that does seem like a good plan to get the weight. I just have to wait until we have a complete unit so I'll have the chrome moly center axles. I personally think the entire weight aspect of cycling is way over blown. Unless you are on the tour as a sponsored rider, climbing in the Alps, a few grams just don't matter. I have seen guys that were gigantic on bikes monster clydesdales that were super fast on the flats. If you took a few grams off their bike they would still not be fast in the hills. Unless you have everything perfect in biking, one item doesn't mean everything. First of all you have to be at the optimum weight for your height. That is where it starts in my mind.

Hope everyone has a great weekend


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> ... I personally think the entire weight aspect of cycling is way over blown. Unless you are on the tour as a sponsored rider, climbing in the Alps, a few grams just don't matter.


The only thing that matters is whether potential customers care about weight ... and a lot of them do.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Yeah that does seem like a good plan to get the weight. I just have to wait until we have a complete unit so I'll have the chrome moly center axles. I personally think the entire weight aspect of cycling is way over blown. Unless you are on the tour as a sponsored rider, climbing in the Alps, a few grams just don't matter. I have seen guys that were gigantic on bikes monster clydesdales that were super fast on the flats. If you took a few grams off their bike they would still not be fast in the hills. Unless you have everything perfect in biking, one item doesn't mean everything. First of all you have to be at the optimum weight for your height. That is where it starts in my mind.
> 
> Hope everyone has a great weekend


Yeah, I'll have a fabulous weekend, imagining my calf shredded to the bone by the sharp remains of a broken pitbull pedal... not unlike some of the symptoms of having been attacked by a pit bull dog.

Thanks, Pitbull.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

SPlKE said:


> Yeah, I'll have a fabulous weekend, imagining my calf shredded to the bone by the sharp remains of a broken pitbull pedal... not unlike some of the symptoms of having been attacked by a pit bull dog.
> 
> Thanks, Pitbull.


So, this is perfect... The Troll will not heed a spec of caution or advice for real. He is a narcissist. They don’t learn things in any way we understand. You’ll note the comments like, “I am in control of the thread” and “don’t get off the subject.” (Roughly paraphrased) You will notice that there are no forum posts outside the thread the narcissist created? That’s symptomatic. I started on this thread as curious as to the design and any real advantages but once it became clear the poster wasn’t capable of genuine interaction I was done with any interest in the product. This is the kind of person who puts out a product that could splay open your calf like a shrimp. And it will be anyone’s fault but his, even if he is held to account for liability by a court of law. If you back through the posts you will see a fantastic pattern of conflicting responses. You will see “it’s made of this,” and we tested this material” and “we ran it over on loose dirt” and we thoroughly tested it” but... “ we just made the new material...” cycling, at least competitively, is one of the most dangerous sports in the world, and most of us have had our incidents that reinforce that data. Why would anyone with half a functioning brain add questionable product safety to their bike? That’s insane! This dude is shot out... 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

it's beyond laughable that the OP doesn't know what his product weighs.


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## craiger_ny (Jun 24, 2014)

Don't weigh them with the same scales you use for your drugs as I suspect they are off a bit.


----------



## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Yeah that does seem like a good plan to get the weight. I just have to wait until we have a complete unit so I'll have the chrome moly center axles. I personally think the entire weight aspect of cycling is way over blown. Unless you are on the tour as a sponsored rider, climbing in the Alps, a few grams just don't matter. I have seen guys that were gigantic on bikes monster clydesdales that were super fast on the flats. If you took a few grams off their bike they would still not be fast in the hills. Unless you have everything perfect in biking, one item doesn't mean everything. First of all you have to be at the optimum weight for your height. That is where it starts in my mind.
> 
> Hope everyone has a great weekend


While I agree with you that the weight aspect of cycling is way overblown, the cold hard reality is that it is the gram counters who are the most willing to spend big bucks on components.


----------



## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Weight, schmeight. I'm not a weight weenie.

I don't care how much the pedal weighs (within reason).

I care deeply *how much weight each pedal can take* when I have *most of my body weight on one pedal or the other*, standing, pushing hard, climbing a steep grade.

I ride Crank Bros pedals, and they provide detailed specs that let me know, clearly, that I'm too heavy for their titanium pedals, but good for their steel pedals.


Pitbull: How much total weight, pushing down under heavy load, can one of your pedal spindles handle before it fails? This is a critical factor. You don't want to even imagine the lawsuits you'll face if you don't pressure test your production pedals to failure, enough times to, with complete confidence, be able to print the rider weight limit on your pedals.

Again, I have to ask -- are you a serious entrepreneur, or is this entire thread an elaborate, ongoing trollfest?


----------



## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

SPlKE said:


> Weight, schmeight. I'm not a weight weenie.
> 
> I don't care how much the pedal weighs (within reason).
> 
> I care deeply *how much weight each pedal can take* when I have *most of my body weight on one pedal or the other*, standing, pushing hard, climbing a steep grade.


I use listed weights to AVOID light component. Which are usually more expensive as well. I don't look for the heaviest stuff of course, but the lightest options get crossed off my list.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

SPlKE said:


> I care deeply *how much weight each pedal can take* when I have *most of my body weight on one pedal or the other*, standing, pushing hard, climbing a steep grade.
> 
> Pitbull: How much total weight, pushing down under heavy load, can one of your pedal spindles handle before it fails? This is a critical factor. You don't want to even imagine the lawsuits you'll face if you don't pressure test your production pedals to failure, enough times to, with complete confidence, be able to print the rider weight limit on your pedals.
> 
> Again, I have to ask -- are you a serious entrepreneur, or is this entire thread an elaborate, ongoing trollfest?


oh come on. Lawsuit schmalsuits. 

Surely they've met all applicable test standards. ASTM, CPSC, ISO, 
AS/NZS.

Mike, Frank, and Roger are just a couple old bucks having fun. clearly their word is enough...Riding around the streets of Florida must mean their product is good. 

That's the same as ISO 4210-8:2014 right?? Who needs tests and reports when you have YouTube videos of Roger 'sprinting' and Mike walking 2 miles and driving over their stuff in a van. 

ISO 4210-8:2014
Cycles — Safety requirements for bicycles — 
Part 8: Pedal and drive system test methods
Test methods
4.1 Pedal — Static strength test
4.2 Pedal — Impact test
4.3 Pedal — Dynamic durability test


----------



## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tomato coupe said:


> The only thing that matters is whether potential customers care about weight ... and a lot of them do.


Exactly and that is why we'll be putting the final weight on the box and out once we know the final numbers. I personally do not think a few grams on your bike somewhere is going to effect anything.



SPlKE said:


> Yeah, I'll have a fabulous weekend, imagining my calf shredded to the bone by the sharp remains of a broken pitbull pedal... not unlike some of the symptoms of having been attacked by a pit bull dog.
> 
> Thanks, Pitbull.


I hope you had a better weekend than you were anticipating.



PBL450 said:


> So, this is perfect... The Troll will not heed a spec of caution or advice for real. He is a narcissist. They don’t learn things in any way we understand. You’ll note the comments like, “I am in control of the thread” and “don’t get off the subject.” (Roughly paraphrased) You will notice that there are no forum posts outside the thread the narcissist created? That’s symptomatic. I started on this thread as curious as to the design and any real advantages but once it became clear the poster wasn’t capable of genuine interaction I was done with any interest in the product. This is the kind of person who puts out a product that could splay open your calf like a shrimp. And it will be anyone’s fault but his, even if he is held to account for liability by a court of law. If you back through the posts you will see a fantastic pattern of conflicting responses. You will see “it’s made of this,” and we tested this material” and “we ran it over on loose dirt” and we thoroughly tested it” but... “ we just made the new material...” cycling, at least competitively, is one of the most dangerous sports in the world, and most of us have had our incidents that reinforce that data. Why would anyone with half a functioning brain add questionable product safety to their bike? That’s insane! This dude is shot out...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


We have already responded that I had mistype something in an earlier comment, trying to say that I'm keeping myself in control and not getting agitated by any comments. 

Obviously you will not be a purchaser of the pedal. I do not believe in any way that our pedal is going to inflict any severe wounds any more so than in any other road bike accident. You could only imagine the big ring on the crank coming down across your face as another rider rolls over you. Biking is a dangerous sport once your pace increases & you get fast. I have had 3 major wrecks on my bike. One is almost unbelievable but it is a fact, I hit a giant turtle and went sailing over the handlebars. Thank god it threw me to the right and not the left and into traffic. This was from a freaking turtle. So lighten up man.



Oxtox said:


> it's beyond laughable that the OP doesn't know what his product weighs.


We've covered this earlier, we are just now finalizing the material that we are using in the final product. Therefore it would of been impossible to come up with an accurate weight to share with the public.



craiger_ny said:


> Don't weigh them with the same scales you use for your drugs as I suspect they are off a bit.


That scale seems to always work out in my favor.



Lombard said:


> While I agree with you that the weight aspect of cycling is way overblown, the cold hard reality is that it is the gram counters who are the most willing to spend big bucks on components.


That is why we will be identifying the actual weight of the final product once we have the total package manufactured. We hope not to have these for sale for big bucks. Just a fair price for a great product.



SPlKE said:


> Weight, schmeight. I'm not a weight weenie.
> 
> I don't care how much the pedal weighs (within reason).
> 
> ...


This is not a trollfest. Thanks for your suggestions and we do plan to put all of that on the packaging. I am a 210lb rider and I beat the hell out of my pedals, with no signs of any issues. We are using some the same materials and diameters of existing pedals so we do feel like there shouldn't be any problems at all.



QuiQuaeQuod said:


> I use listed weights to AVOID light component. Which are usually more expensive as well. I don't look for the heaviest stuff of course, but the lightest options get crossed off my list.


I don't think that out of the chrome moly and stainless that we would be the lightest pedal. Should be super strong and trouble free. If there is a need to go to titanium then I do think that we could be one of the lightest pedals.



tlg said:


> oh come on. Lawsuit schmalsuits.
> 
> Surely they've met all applicable test standards. ASTM, CPSC, ISO,
> AS/NZS.
> ...


If our product assurance people want us to provide certain testing then obviously we will do what is needed. We just know in real world usage as a large rider and riding on the system for a long time, I am confident in what we have produced.


----------



## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Well if you're confident, then why should I worry?

The reason I bought the specific Crank Bros pedals I have is because on the box it said "We're confident that these pedals won't fail at the worst possible time. Trust us."


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Exactly and that is why we'll be putting the final weight on the box and out once we know the final numbers. I personally do not think a few grams on your bike somewhere is going to effect anything.


Something tells me that you haven't even weighed your prototypes. Correct?


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## BubbaGump (Feb 17, 2015)

tomato coupe said:


> Something tells me that you haven't even weighed your prototypes. Correct?


I'm betting that he has. But he's changing everything in production so now has no idea on weight, fatigue points, stress points, basically everything that's been "extensively tested" by him and his buddy riding. Lol 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> We've covered this earlier, we are just now finalizing the material that we are using in the final product. Therefore it would of been impossible to come up with an accurate weight to share with the public.


Yet again... Showing your breadth of engineering knowledge.

If I had the drawings of your parts, I could tell you the weight.... and be accurate to within a gram or two. (not rocket science)





> I am a 210lb rider and I beat the hell out of my pedals, with no signs of any issues. We are using some the same materials and diameters of existing pedals so we do feel like there shouldn't be any problems at all.
> 
> If our product assurance people want us to provide certain testing then obviously we will do what is needed. We just know in real world usage as a large rider and riding on the system for a long time, I am confident in what we have produced.


ISO 4210-8:2014 4.1 Pedal — Static strength test requires 1500N. *(That's more than your 210lbs)*

4.2 Pedal — Impact test *(will produce forces in excess of 1,000lbs)
*
4.3 Pedal — Dynamic durability test *(how many miles do you ride your bike while pushing your pedals on a 30° side angle?)*


That fact that you, or your product 'assurance people', think your pittance of 'real world' testing means anything isn't very assuring.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

*Pitbull Pedals*_ For all riders under all conditions.
Roger Tested... Roger Approved_[SUP]Ⓡ[/SUP]


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

SPlKE said:


> Well if you're confident, then why should I worry?
> 
> The reason I bought the specific Crank Bros pedals I have is because on the box it said "We're confident that these pedals won't fail at the worst possible time. Trust us."


I don't remember it saying that on the box of Egg Beaters I bought. Maybe that's why they failed at 2K miles. :idea:


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

SPlKE said:


> _Roger Tested... Roger Approved_[SUP]Ⓡ[/SUP]


He is well known, so if he approved it...


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Lombard said:


> I don't remember it saying that on the box of Egg Beaters I bought. Maybe that's why they failed at 2K miles. :idea:


You must have gotten the Olde Egge Beaters, before they had _Roger_[SUP]Ⓡ[/SUP] give them the once over.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

SPlKE said:


> Well if you're confident, then why should I worry?
> 
> The reason I bought the specific Crank Bros pedals I have is because on the box it said "We're confident that these pedals won't fail at the worst possible time. Trust us."


Since we are using the same material and diameter parts as other pedals I think that there would be less to go wrong right off the bat. But we could show one holding 250lbs and that should be sufficient for the public or you.



tomato coupe said:


> Something tells me that you haven't even weighed your prototypes. Correct?


No we had weighed them at the USPS. It was in oz and I just cannot remember what the number was. Now we are changing the inner axle material so it will be a new number again.



BubbaGump said:


> I'm betting that he has. But he's changing everything in production so now has no idea on weight, fatigue points, stress points, basically everything that's been "extensively tested" by him and his buddy riding. Lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


That was Roger that helped do some testing. It isn't like we are making these pedals out of aluminum axles, it is all durable material that is already in use today in other pedals.



tlg said:


> Yet again... Showing your breadth of engineering knowledge.
> 
> If I had the drawings of your parts, I could tell you the weight.... and be accurate to within a gram or two. (not rocket science)
> 
> ...


I wish I had your knowledge but unfortunately I do not. We have just come up with an awesome new pedal which works exactly how we are describing it. Whatever the product assurance people request we would have to comply with. That should make everything acceptable for all.



SPlKE said:


> *Pitbull Pedals*_ For all riders under all conditions.
> Roger Tested... Roger Approved_[SUP]Ⓡ[/SUP]


I think you're having as much fun with this as I am.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> No we had weighed them at the USPS. It was in oz and I just cannot remember what the number was. Now we are changing the inner axle material so it will be a new number again.


I understand. When you say "As of right now I'm not disclosing that information completely," you mean "I have no idea what these pedals weigh."


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> But we could show one holding 250lbs and that should be sufficient for the public or you.


No. No it isn't. Neither is driving over it with a van. Why do you insist on continually embarrassing you (and your business partners) with your complete ignorance?

250lbs STILL isn't equivalent to the ISO 4210-8:2014 testing standards.




> Now we are changing the inner axle material so it will be a new number again.


Yet... again... showing off your ignorance. Simply changing the material won't change the weight.
AISI 4130 Steel (Cromoly) weighs *0.284 lb/in*
AISI 1020 (basic carbon steel) weighs *0.284 lb/in³*

Virtually all steels have the exact same density. If you want less weight, you use a stronger steel and reduce the size. Simply changing the material doesn't do that. 




> Whatever the product assurance people request we would have to comply with. That should make everything acceptable for all.


Who are these "product assurance people"? Did they own the van you drove of the pedals with?

You're the owner of the business/patent. Why wouldn't you insist they test your product to industry standards?


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## BubbaGump (Feb 17, 2015)

tlg said:


> No. No it isn't. Neither is driving over it with a van. Why do you insist on continually embarrassing you (and your business partners) with your complete ignorance?
> 
> 250lbs STILL isn't equivalent to the ISO 4210-8:2014 testing standards.
> 
> ...


Here's the thing, you tested one or two sets of pedals, which you admitted earlier, that you simply tore parts from another manufacturer's pedal to build. That's what you "tested". Now you are changing the materials, I'm assuming to save you money, and are going to ship those out once they come from wherever they are being produced. China? Have you received any of these pedals yet? Chinese steel is notoriously questionable in quality from batch to batch. Chinese steel would be nowhere near the quality of American or European steel, which, is possibly what you originally used. There's way too many red flags here. You need to slow down and get independent testing done on your final product. We're mocking you mercilessly, sure. But in the long run, if you don't heed our concerns, you're going to get your ass handed to you in lawsuits. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tomato coupe said:


> I understand. When you say "As of right now I'm not disclosing that information completely," you mean "I have no idea what these pedals weigh."


OMG I did know but I do not remember the amount from the post office. No more no less.



tlg said:


> No. No it isn't. Neither is driving over it with a van. Why do you insist on continually embarrassing you (and your business partners) with your complete ignorance?
> 
> 250lbs STILL isn't equivalent to the ISO 4210-8:2014 testing standards.
> 
> ...


Like I have said we are just two guys who have come up with a new pedal. You have enlightened me right now with these particular tests. If that is what is needed, that is what we will get confirmed. I just don't know how we could fail the test based off of other products of the exact same diameter and length that are already on the market.




BubbaGump said:


> Here's the thing, you tested one or two sets of pedals, which you admitted earlier, that you simply tore parts from another manufacturer's pedal to build. That's what you "tested". Now you are changing the materials, I'm assuming to save you money, and are going to ship those out once they come from wherever they are being produced. China? Have you received any of these pedals yet? Chinese steel is notoriously questionable in quality from batch to batch. Chinese steel would be nowhere near the quality of American or European steel, which, is possibly what you originally used. There's way too many red flags here. You need to slow down and get independent testing done on your final product. We're mocking you mercilessly, sure. But in the long run, if you don't heed our concerns, you're going to get your ass handed to you in lawsuits.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Like I have just mentioned there was some particular tests that were brought up. If that is what we must do to get our product assurance certificate that is what we would do. Obviously there is a lot of people on here that are engineers and way smarter than I am. Like I have stated over and over we are just two guys who have come up with a new pedal idea. Thanks for all the info that I have learned through this forum.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I just don't know how we could fail the test based off of other products of the exact same diameter and length that are already on the market.


OMG OMG OMG

Your product isn't exactly the same. Otherwise you wouldn't have a patent. Your pedal is designed differently, manufactured differently, assembled differently. I don't know of any other pedals that are held together with an internal retaining ring (not that it's necessarily bad). But something as simple as a flawed groove could prove devastating to someone using your pedal.

You seem to have no comprehension of how testing is done or what it is for.





> If that is what we must do to get our product assurance certificate that is what we would do.


What the heck is a product assurance certificate?


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Like I have said we are just two guys who have come up with a new pedal.
> 
> Obviously there is a lot of people on here that are engineers and way smarter than I am. Like I have stated over and over we are just two guys who have come up with a new pedal idea.


Yes, obviously............ I really think you should hire some engineers and a good attorney, seriously. Otherwise, you are just wasting time and resources and risking losing your shirt.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> OMG I did know but I do not remember the amount from the post office. No more no less.


It doesn't matter if you forgot, if you never knew, or if your dog ate the paper with the number written on it. The bottom line is that you have no idea how much they weigh.


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## Backdash (Jan 26, 2016)

tomato coupe said:


> It doesn't matter if you forgot, if you never knew, or if your dog ate the paper with the number written on it. The bottom line is that you have no idea how much they weigh.


I vote for "never knew" with an addendum of "never weighed"


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> OMG OMG OMG
> 
> Your product isn't exactly the same. Otherwise you wouldn't have a patent. Your pedal is designed differently, manufactured differently, assembled differently. I don't know of any other pedals that are held together with an internal retaining ring (not that it's necessarily bad). But something as simple as a flawed groove could prove devastating to someone using your pedal.
> 
> ...


You are right, like I had said we are just a cabinet guy and machinist that have come up with a pedal. I have learned a lot on this forum. So we will cross our T's and dot our i's before our label is printed and we hit the market.



Lombard said:


> Yes, obviously............ I really think you should hire some engineers and a good attorney, seriously. Otherwise, you are just wasting time and resources and risking losing your shirt.


We will make a final decision before we release to the public. But with all of the conversations here we have gained knowledge on some of the areas that we were not familiar with.



tomato coupe said:


> It doesn't matter if you forgot, if you never knew, or if your dog ate the paper with the number written on it. The bottom line is that you have no idea how much they weigh.


At this exact minute you are correct. Actually my partner's scale was not working correctly in grams, so when we went to the post office we found out they were in oz also. We're going to purchase another small scale and weigh the product soon.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

I cannot fathom how someone that is trying to manufacture an item where weight is a concern doesn't have the ability to convert pounds/ounces to grams. Jesus H F*****g Christ on a popsicle stick...you and your partner are so underprepared for this it's ridiculous.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> I cannot fathom how someone that is trying to manufacture an item where weight is a concern doesn't have the ability to convert pounds/ounces to grams. Jesus H F*****g Christ on a popsicle stick...you and your partner are so underprepared for this it's ridiculous.


What  you can convert oz to grams 

That's so 2nd grade elementary school
teacherspayteachers.com/Product/Metric-Unit-conversion-US-Standard-conversion-Chart-243272
Grade Levels
2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th


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## BubbaGump (Feb 17, 2015)

tlg said:


> What  you can convert oz to grams
> 
> That's so 2nd grade elementary school
> teacherspayteachers.com/Product/Metric-Unit-conversion-US-Standard-conversion-Chart-243272
> ...


Honestly, you don't even have to math anymore with the internet...

https://www.google.com/search?q=oun...droid-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> ... my partner's scale was not working correctly in grams, so when we went to the post office we found out they were in oz also. We're going to purchase another small scale and weigh the product soon.


Wow. Neither of you guys can convert ounces to grams?


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Do your pedals work on 11spd bikes?


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> I cannot fathom how someone that is trying to manufacture an item where weight is a concern doesn't have the ability to convert pounds/ounces to grams. Jesus H F*****g Christ on a popsicle stick...you and your partner are so underprepared for this it's ridiculous.


But he's just a cabinet maker having some fun.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

cxwrench said:


> I cannot fathom how someone that is trying to manufacture an item where weight is a concern doesn't have the ability to convert pounds/ounces to grams. Jesus H F*****g Christ on a popsicle stick...you and your partner are so underprepared for this it's ridiculous.


Many posts ago I had said that we could of done that, but didn't decide to at the time. It was so long ago I think that that was back when we had the stainless cleats.



tlg said:


> What  you can convert oz to grams
> 
> That's so 2nd grade elementary school
> teacherspayteachers.com/Product/Metric-Unit-conversion-US-Standard-conversion-Chart-243272
> ...


As above, stainless pedals I believe at the time. Lighten up man



BubbaGump said:


> Honestly, you don't even have to math anymore with the internet...
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=oun...droid-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Thanks, we're just going to get a new scale as Frank's has broken.



tomato coupe said:


> Wow. Neither of you guys can convert ounces to grams?


Can anyone think of anything different to say?



SPlKE said:


> Do your pedals work on 11spd bikes?


Its a pedal



Lombard said:


> But he's just a cabinet maker having some fun.


Exactly


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Can anyone think of anything different to say?


There's a good reason why everyone is making essentially the same comment -- it's because everyone is shocked/appalled/frightened/amused by your latest confession.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Many posts ago I had said that we *could of* done that, but didn't decide to at the time. It was so long ago I think that that was back when we had the stainless cleats.


Could HAVE is what you're trying to make into a contraction, so it's 'could've'...never 'could of'. Jesus, did you not graduate middle school? This stuff makes you sound like uneducated hicks. Put copy w/ errors like that on your site and/or packaging and people will rip you to shreads. Again. 

If you can't figure out the math to convert ounces to grams how are people going to trust your product engineering? Oh...there isn't any.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

cxwrench said:


> Could HAVE is what you're trying to make into a contraction, so it's 'could've'...never 'could of'. Jesus, did you not graduate middle school? This stuff makes you sound like uneducated hicks. Put copy w/ errors like that on your site and/or packaging and people will rip you to shreads. Again.
> 
> If you can't figure out the math to convert ounces to grams how are people going to trust your product engineering? Oh...there isn't any.


Did I say in Post 270 that he should hire some engineers and a good attorney? I will now add a proofreader to that list.


----------



## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tomato coupe said:


> There's a good reason why everyone is making essentially the same comment -- it's because everyone is shocked/appalled/frightened/amused by your latest confession.


\

Like I had mentioned it was long ago. Lots of things are happening. It has been so long that I think when we did it we still had the stainless steel cleats. Sometimes you just have to give people a break and little up a bit, I'm just trying to be as honest as I can.



cxwrench said:


> Could HAVE is what you're trying to make into a contraction, so it's 'could've'...never 'could of'. Jesus, did you not graduate middle school? This stuff makes you sound like uneducated hicks. Put copy w/ errors like that on your site and/or packaging and people will rip you to shreads. Again.
> 
> If you can't figure out the math to convert ounces to grams how are people going to trust your product engineering? Oh...there isn't any.


I guess that's why I'm a cabinet builder and not an English teacher at Harvard. We're just answering questions as they come in, we are not trying to be perfect in our choice of words. Just trying to get the point across. BTW it appears you've spelled shreds wrong also. But I could be mistaken since I'm an uneducated hick.

We can convert it, like I have mentioned it was a long time ago and with the stainless steel cleats. Not with the new system.



Lombard said:


> Did I say in Post 270 that he should hire some engineers and a good attorney? I will now add a proofreader to that list.


Absolutely before we put anything on a label and have it printed, it will be looked at and scrutinized over and over. Only then would we actually sign off on it to print.


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## xxl (Mar 19, 2002)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> ...
> 
> I guess that's why I'm a cabinet builder and not an English teacher at Harvard....


With all due respect to cxwrench, I don't believe he's an English teacher at Harvard, either.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

The funny thing is, all the time spent he-hawing about the weight and scales, you could've just calculated it. Your CAD system can give you the volume of your spindles/axles. And your injection molder definitely knows the volume of the cleats. 
This is seriously easy information to get.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

xxl said:


> With all due respect to cxwrench, I don't believe he's an English teacher at Harvard, either.


Amazingly, I find it interesting that CX as a lowly bike mechanic and I as another lowly technical person with only an associates degree somehow manage to be able to communicate without simple spelling and grammatical errors, while others I know with masters degrees and doctorates mix up its and it's, your and you're, there, their and they're, not to mention using apostrophes on plural words. 

Oooops, was this a run on sentence??


----------



## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Lombard said:


> Did I say in Post 270 that he should hire some engineers and a good attorney? I will now add a proofreader to that list.


As long as you didn't say he "should of" hired some engineers....


----------



## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

SPlKE said:


> As long as you didn't say he "should of" hired some engineers....


It's not "should of", it's "should'of" you nit wit!


----------



## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Lombard said:


> It's not "should of", it's "should'of" you nit wit!


Your joke's are weak.

Heres how it would of been funnier:

As long as you didn't say he "should of" hired some engineer's....


----------



## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

SPlKE said:


> Your joke's are weak.





SPlKE said:


> Heres how it would of been funnier:
> 
> As long as you didn't say he "should of" hired some engineer's....




Haha!


----------



## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Like I had mentioned it was long ago...


Your partner has a scale that reads in ounces. Why don't you weigh the pedals on his scale and then spend 15 seconds converting the results to grams?



Pitbull Pedal said:


> Actually my partner's scale was not working correctly in grams, so when we went to the post office we found out they were in oz also.


----------



## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Lombard said:


> Haha!


All this mirth make's me think I should of posted a thread asking whether 145 psi is right for a road tire, but put it in the general question thread, instead of the wheel's and tire's thread.

It's about time we make CX show us even more of the tough love we crave.


----------



## ogre (Dec 16, 2005)

SPlKE said:


> All this mirth make's me think I should of posted a thread asking whether 145 psi is right for a road tire, but put it in the general question thread, instead of the wheel's and tire's thread.
> 
> It's about time we make CX show us even more of the tough love we crave.


Or ask why you’re brifter’s don’t shift right and don’t provide no additional information.


----------



## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

tomato coupe said:


> Your partner has a scale that reads in ounces. Why don't you weigh the pedals on his scale and then spend 15 seconds converting the results to grams?


It actually takes about 5 seconds:

https://www.google.com/search?q=con...1.69i57j0l5.6524j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


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## xxl (Mar 19, 2002)

Lombard said:


> It actually takes about 5 seconds:
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=con...1.69i57j0l5.6524j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


Re converting ounces to grams: It's easy. Did _none_ of you ever deal drugs?


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

xxl said:


> Re converting ounces to grams: It's easy. Did _none_ of you ever deal drugs?


Yea. But you don't need to weigh LSD


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

SPlKE said:


> All this mirth make's me think I should of posted a thread asking whether 145 psi is right for a road tire, but put it in the general question thread, instead of the wheel's and tire's thread.
> 
> It's about time we make CX show us even more of the tough love we crave.


I'm ready for y'a!


----------



## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> The funny thing is, all the time spent he-hawing about the weight and scales, you could've just calculated it. Your CAD system can give you the volume of your spindles/axles. And your injection molder definitely knows the volume of the cleats.
> This is seriously easy information to get.


You are correct in your statement, especially if you have all the right instruments to measure with. Here is the breaking news the pedals weigh 328g in chrome-moly and stainless steel. Good or bad that is what they are.



tomato coupe said:


> Your partner has a scale that reads in ounces. Why don't you weigh the pedals on his scale and then spend 15 seconds converting the results to grams?


The weight is posted in my response above yours.



xxl said:


> Re converting ounces to grams: It's easy. Did _none_ of you ever deal drugs?


Funny, a fellow cabinet builder knew the answer right away based off of that exact reason.


----------



## xxl (Mar 19, 2002)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> ...
> Funny, a fellow cabinet builder knew the answer right away based off of that exact reason.


You should make him a member of the design team.

And I have to ask: Does the pedal weight you report include the cleat?


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

xxl said:


> You should make him a member of the design team.
> 
> And I have to ask: Does the pedal weight you report include the cleat?


No it does not. As we feel the weight is on the bicycle. The cleat is fastened to you such as your shoes/kit/helmet and as your own body weight fluctuates. I would think that with the cleat, all the screws and the spring steel it would be right around 400g.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I would think that with the cleat, all the screws and the spring steel it would be right around 400g.


It is unwise to guesstimate such things when answering such questions. Just say no, but you will weigh it all later and post the answer.



Pitbull Pedal said:


> As we feel the weight is on the bicycle. The cleat is fastened to you such as your shoes/kit/helmet and as your own body weight fluctuates.


I have NO idea WTF you think that means. Or why it would be relevant to the weight of parts for your product.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> You are correct in your statement, especially if you have all the right instruments to measure with. Here is the breaking news the pedals weigh 328g in chrome-moly and stainless steel. Good or bad that is what they are.


As I pointed out, your CAD system could give you that information. 




> No it does not. As we feel the weight is on the bicycle. The cleat is fastened to you such as your shoes/kit/helmet and as your own body weight fluctuates. I would think that with the cleat, all the screws and the spring steel it would be right around 400g.


:crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:
The cleat is attached to the pedal too, which is part of the bicycle. The weight of the cleat has the same affect as the pedal.

The debate on the importance of weight aside (good or bad), at 400g for your "high end" pedal, it's just another huge mark against your product. You can get Look Keo Classics for under $50 @ 350g
SHIMANO SPD-SL PD R-540 For $25 @ 330g.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> It is unwise to guesstimate such things when answering such questions. Just say no, but you will weigh it all later and post the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> I have NO idea WTF you think that means. Or why it would be relevant to the weight of parts for your product.


Sounds like good advice, thanks.

OMG it is just my opinion that the weight on the bicycle is a critical number. Everything else has variables. Especially your body weight. I'm sure that you are keeping yourself at the perfect race weight at all times. I personally am not so a few grams if I'm wearing a jacket or I ate a couple of big macs just doesn't matter to me. Lighten up.


----------



## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> As I pointed out, your CAD system could give you that information.
> 
> 
> :crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:
> ...


Like I had said these are not high end pedals, we are claiming that they are the fastest and easiest to use. A few grams here or there in our opinion is irrelevant if you cannot get clipped in when you need to. We are not trying to take over the pedal market, we are just trying to sell a few pedals and make this venture fun.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Like I had said these are not high end pedals, we are claiming that they are the fastest and easiest to use.


You've claimed a lot of things. You've talked about crit racing and saving seconds. You've talked about how nobody on Kickstarter bought them because they were too cheap and raised the price to $100. (But great pedals can be had for under $50). You've avoided and deflected the issues of walking with your pedals.

One one hand you pretend these are pedals for noob's, and on the other hand like they're high end pedals.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

tlg said:


> You've claimed a lot of things. You've talked about crit racing and saving seconds. You've talked about how nobody on Kickstarter bought them because they were too cheap and raised the price to $100. (But great pedals can be had for under $50). You've avoided and deflected the issues of walking with your pedals.
> 
> One one hand you pretend these are pedals for noob's, and on the other hand like they're high end pedals.


And that's the beauty part: They're high end pedals but for noobs.

You have to put on your Product Marketer Cap and think like you're in the marketing department at Pitbull Pedals. That's what I do in this thread.


----------



## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Here is the breaking news the pedals weigh 328g in chrome-moly and stainless steel.


Is that for one pedal or for a pair?


----------



## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> You've claimed a lot of things. You've talked about crit racing and saving seconds. You've talked about how nobody on Kickstarter bought them because they were too cheap and raised the price to $100. (But great pedals can be had for under $50). You've avoided and deflected the issues of walking with your pedals.
> 
> One one hand you pretend these are pedals for noob's, and on the other hand like they're high end pedals.


Lets make this perfectly clear and let go of the last month's worth of discussions from both ends. This is what it all boils down to for us. We believe that they are the fastest pedals to engage, period. We believe that a few grams + or - will not effect anything in the real world. If you have to use a wind tunnel or computer to find an advantage or disadvantage it is ridiculous. I do believe that these are good for a new rider. I do believe that they are good for the weekend warrior. I do also believe that these pedals are good for the top riders in the country. They have not shown any signs of failure or slippage during hard hits, long rides, and many years, etc. The cleats are meant to wear out like basically all other plastic road cleats. Frank and I often joke that it sure is a good thing that I bought these S-works carbon aero bars for my venge as we are pedaling into a 20mph headwind. But the handlebars do look great.




SPlKE said:


> And that's the beauty part: They're high end pedals but for noobs.
> 
> You have to put on your Product Marketer Cap and think like you're in the marketing department at Pitbull Pedals. That's what I do in this thread.


I agree. Right now we are not trying to market anything. We have just come up with the idea and are trying to get it off the ground as we have just placed our order for the pedals to be produced. I'm really not for sure what the system will retail for once we have everything in place. Only time will tell.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

The verdict is in. I went down and talked to a friend of mine who has a new scale here in my building complex. The pedals with the cleats, spring steel, and all the screws is 406g. I was close on my guess, and there we go.


----------



## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> This is what it all boils down to for us. We believe that they are the fastest pedals to engage, period. We believe that a few grams + or - will not effect anything in the real world.


Saving a fraction of a second by clipping in faster makes a difference, but saving a fraction of a second by reducing weight doesn't?


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

the pedal market has a lot of reasonably-priced high-quality options that are going to be very difficult to compete against.

you can buy Look Keo Carbon 2 pedals all day long for under $100 that are about 150g lighter.

why would consumers opt for an unproven, unknown brand that is more expensive, heavier, and clunkier looking...?


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

tlg said:


> Yea. But you don't need to weigh LSD


Don’t drop acid. Take it pass/fail. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Oxtox said:


> the pedal market has a lot of reasonably-priced high-quality options that are going to be very difficult to compete against.
> 
> you can buy Look Keo Carbon 2 pedals all day long for under $100 that are about 150g lighter.
> 
> why would consumers opt for an unproven, unknown brand that is more expensive, heavier, and clunkier looking...?


Look Keo Blades. 235g. $60-$90.00. Comes with the consumer confidence of knowing they are designed by the best binder company on earth. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

tlg said:


> You've claimed a lot of things.


I think of it this way. He seems to be selling these like he would sell his cabinetry to customers. Who don't know the details of what makes for good cabinets. So he gives a couple of reasons for his suggestion and those sound good, so sale made.

He needs to start selling his design to other cabinet makers, who will want details, and won't just take "I feel this is the best" as an answer. To give a very extreme example to highlight how I see this and the other threads:

"Screws are really strong, that's why they are used in so many things!"

"But I can get ones joined with biscuits for the same price."

"But screws are plenty strong!!!"​
Nope. 

Screwed and glued joints are strong, but I am sure he could explain in DETAIL why that's not a good way to make cabinetry *that will last*. If he couldn't, well, would anyone with knowledge trust his work? Nope.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tomato coupe said:


> Saving a fraction of a second by clipping in faster makes a difference, but saving a fraction of a second by reducing weight doesn't?


I understand what you are saying. A fraction of a second is a fraction of a second. Ours are just much easier to clip into consistently, as there is 360 degrees of engagement. No more or less.



Oxtox said:


> the pedal market has a lot of reasonably-priced high-quality options that are going to be very difficult to compete against.
> 
> you can buy Look Keo Carbon 2 pedals all day long for under $100 that are about 150g lighter.
> 
> why would consumers opt for an unproven, unknown brand that is more expensive, heavier, and clunkier looking...?


Your opinion is that they are clunky, to us they are simple and less massive than most. We all know that a few grams of weight + or - isn't going to turn a bad rider into a good rider. We will not be more expensive for sure.



PBL450 said:


> Look Keo Blades. 235g. $60-$90.00. Comes with the consumer confidence of knowing they are designed by the best binder company on earth.
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I understand, but there are all kind of new products that come out daily. Ours is based off a very simple premise and we have shown that they work like we have said.



QuiQuaeQuod said:


> I think of it this way. He seems to be selling these like he would sell his cabinetry to customers. Who don't know the details of what makes for good cabinets. So he gives a couple of reasons for his suggestion and those sound good, so sale made.
> 
> He needs to start selling his design to other cabinet makers, who will want details, and won't just take "I feel this is the best" as an answer. To give a very extreme example to highlight how I see this and the other threads:
> "Screws are really strong, that's why they are used in so many things!"
> ...


You're overthinking this. The product isn't even completely assembled and boxed yet. We just know that what we are saying is based off of the fact that we've used this system for multiple years and they work just as we have said.


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## ROAD&DIRT (Mar 27, 2009)

I can't believe this tread is still moving... its a weak product, nobody will invest in and/or buy... end of story!


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I understand what you are saying. A fraction of a second is a fraction of a second. Ours are just much easier to clip into consistently, as there is 360 degrees of engagement. No more or less.


You're still all over the place. Back pedaling and changing your positions. All you've done since day #1 is champion how fast your pedals are. 

Right on your website:
*"Pitbull Bike Pedal is the fastest bike pedal and cleat system available. Maximize watts and get 3-4 power strokes ahead of the pack at every start!"
"World's fastest road bike pedal system"*

Now you're trying to brush all that off as if fractions of a second don't matter. :crazy::crazy::crazy:





> We will not be more expensive for sure.


B.S. $100 is wayyy more expensive. Like it or not, your pedals are low end and if they're accepted by anyone it will beginners. Entry level pedals of well known brands are $25-$50.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> You're overthinking this.


You are underthinking this.

/thinks a bit

No, sorry, that's not right. You are underthinking a lot of things. One of which is the negative impression both your product and your posts have made on a lot of people. Try thinking about that, and thinking on how you can improve on your impression management skills.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

ROAD&DIRT said:


> I can't believe this tread is still moving... its a weak product, nobody will invest in and/or buy... end of story!


I appreciate you will not be buying them, there are a lot of people in the US that I have an opportunity to do business with and you just are not one of them. Lighten up



tlg said:


> You're still all over the place. Back pedaling and changing your positions. All you've done since day #1 is champion how fast your pedals are.
> 
> Right on your website:
> *"Pitbull Bike Pedal is the fastest bike pedal and cleat system available. Maximize watts and get 3-4 power strokes ahead of the pack at every start!"
> ...


I guess that is how you are reading it. On the initial start up thread we had just said that we came up with a new pedal. Even as of right now we don't have any inventory. We're still working through everything. 5 or 6 people here think that we are some kind of marketing gurus. We are not we are just two guys who have come up with a new pedal design that has 360 degree entry. Other people have tried, we feel like we have successfully met the challenge of clipping into a round pedal. Seconds matter in multiple views. By not looking down at the pedal for a long time trying to clip in could save you being hit by a car. Just like GCN's video that I had posted, they are professionals and they even talked about how saving seconds are valuable. Fortunately my opinion agrees with them and your opinion may not. It is just the way it is.

If I could sell a set for $50 retail it would be fantastic. Sometimes things that are priced too cheap give the illusion that it is not a good product. Anyway I think that we'll be somewhere well under $100.



QuiQuaeQuod said:


> You are underthinking this.
> 
> /thinks a bit
> 
> No, sorry, that's not right. You are underthinking a lot of things. One of which is the negative impression both your product and your posts have made on a lot of people. Try thinking about that, and thinking on how you can improve on your impression management skills.


Just a humble cabinet maker and a machinist that have come up with this system. Not marketing genius, just us talking openly to a group of people. As long as they work like I am stating then everything will be fine, and they do.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I
> I guess that is how you are reading it.


B.S. When anyone reads your words, specifically the ones on your website, that's exactly what you are saying. Don't go pretending that everyone is 'misreading' you. The basis of your entire sales pitch has always been how 'fast' they are. For christ sakes you have multiple logos saying such. WORLDS fastest 
























> If I could sell a set for $50 retail it would be fantastic. Sometimes things that are priced too cheap give the illusion that it is not a good product. Anyway I think that we'll be somewhere well under $100.


You're so far removed from reality. SHIMANO SPD-SL PD R-540 are $25. Nobody thinks Shimano doesn't make a good product.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Ok, imagine you know NOTHING about these pedals.



tlg said:


>



Now, how many people who know nothing about the pedals will think that 1) that little bit of metal will hold securely, and that 2) it will last for any length of time without altering the security or feel of the connection?

Minor point, a marked up spindle is not something I would want in my marketing photo.


----------



## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Just a humble cabinet maker and .............


.......yada, yada, yada. It's just getting old already.


----------



## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I understand what you are saying. A fraction of a second is a fraction of a second. Ours are just much easier to clip into consistently, as there is 360 degrees of engagement. No more or less.


Just out of curiosity, what brand/model of pedals were you using before you made your own?


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## Bebop (Aug 16, 2014)

Looks tuff , like if I wanted a peddle I want a tuff peddle that my feet will grip to and not slide off , so yea I like it


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> B.S. When anyone reads your words, specifically the ones on your website, that's exactly what you are saying. Don't go pretending that everyone is 'misreading' you. The basis of your entire sales pitch has always been how 'fast' they are. For christ sakes you have multiple logos saying such. WORLDS fastest
> 
> 
> 
> You're so far removed from reality. SHIMANO SPD-SL PD R-540 are $25. Nobody thinks Shimano doesn't make a good product.


You are right that we are claiming that it is the fastest pedal to engage. I would have to think that just because it is a 360 degree entry that it would almost have to be. Even if you didn't really understand the mechanism on the cleat.

Then why are there so many other pedals besides those? You can buy high end pedals without a power meter for 100s of dollars. There are a huge variety and we are just hoping to fit in somewhere.



QuiQuaeQuod said:


> Ok, imagine you know NOTHING about these pedals.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Any new product that launches has to build a reputation. We know for a fact that stainless steel pedal has lasted for years. As far as if they will hold someones weight like mentioned from another person on the forum, I think that once we get our shipment in we will have multiple sets run through testing from a 3rd party. We know that they will for sure as I'm a 200+lb rider and they have shown no movement what so ever.

The spindle in the picture has just surface marks, there is nothing at all damaging to that used pedal. There are other pictures with an unused pedal.



Lombard said:


> .......yada, yada, yada. It's just getting old already.


I don't know any other way to phrase it other than that. We have just come up with a new product that has worked perfectly under all of our testing conditions. We are not the LOOK or Specialized company in wind tunnels & super computers going through simulated testing. We only know the real world actions as we have been using them for years.



tomato coupe said:


> Just out of curiosity, what brand/model of pedals were you using before you made your own?


LOOK pedals, I think they were KEO plus? The model ID has rubbed off.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> You are right that we are claiming that it is the fastest pedal to engage. I would have to think that just because it is a 360 degree entry that it would almost have to be. Even if you didn't really understand the mechanism on the cleat.


You would "think"? You've claimed they are the "Worlds fastest". So you're just guessing.




> Then why are there so many other pedals besides those? You can buy high end pedals without a power meter for 100s of dollars.


Why? You're the one trying to sell pedals and you don't know why?
High end pedals use exotic materials (carbon, Ti) to reduce weight. Functionally they're not really different. I have a set of $40 Look plastic pedals and a set of Look Carbon pedals that were a few hundred dollars. They use the exact same cleat and function identically.

Contrary to what you feel, cheap pedals aren't inferior. You've priced yourself out of the entry level market. And you're too heavy for the high end market.


----------



## ROAD&DIRT (Mar 27, 2009)

Dude, stop embarrassing your self... just take a bow and get off the stage, your done!


----------



## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> LOOK pedals, I think they were KEO plus? The model ID has rubbed off.


Have you ever used any of the (many) two-sided pedals that are presently being sold?


----------



## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Hey Pitbull Pedals, we're getting bored.

Can you launch a design for a Pitbull Seat? Ideally, this seat is A) Revolutionary, B) Allows the rider to shave a few milliseconds off mounting the bike, and C) Attaches to the rider's posterior in some novel way which changes _everything_.


----------



## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> You would "think"? You've claimed they are the "Worlds fastest". So you're just guessing.
> 
> 
> Why? You're the one trying to sell pedals and you don't know why?
> ...


I don't see how I could be wrong based off of the 360 degree engagement, but I'm open to any challenge from anyone at any time. If I lose, I'll retract the statement.

As I had stated before we haven't listed a final pricing yet. I think that once we have the final product and talk to all of the local & western central FL bike shops (as we are giving them away with a sample that you can operate by hand to show their customers how it works) they will help come up with a final number.



ROAD&DIRT said:


> Dude, stop embarrassing your self... just take a bow and get off the stage, your done!


As far as you and I are concerned, you are correct we are finished. If you don't say anything else to me, I won't say anything else to you. I'm just trying to respond to everyone who posts with the most honest answers I can.



tomato coupe said:


> Have you ever used any of the (many) two-sided pedals that are presently being sold?


Truthfully no, but I do know with a 360 degree entry that even a crank brothers pedal with 4 sided entry cannot keep up to our 360 degree entry. I'm basing this off of logic but I could be wrong.



SPlKE said:


> Hey Pitbull Pedals, we're getting bored.
> 
> Can you launch a design for a Pitbull Seat? Ideally, this seat is A) Revolutionary, B) Allows the rider to shave a few milliseconds off mounting the bike, and C) Attaches to the rider's posterior in some novel way which changes _everything_.


Funny that you may say that, but we are trying to come up with a seat idea. Not as far as time saving but just much more comfortable to my posterior


----------



## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> The spindle in the picture has just surface marks, there is nothing at all damaging to that used pedal. There are other pictures with an unused pedal.


My comment on the spindle was to your marketing choice, not functionality. Key terms in my post: marked up, marketing, photos.


----------



## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> My comment on the spindle was to your marketing choice, not functionality. Key terms in my post: marked up, marketing, photos.


Any further photos will have unused spindles. Sorry to misunderstand your comment.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I don't see how I could be wrong based off of the 360 degree engagement, but I'm open to any challenge from anyone at any time. If I lose, I'll retract the statement.


You don't see a lot of things. To make the claim of "WORLD's fastest" based only on your feeling is pretty shady.

Your spindle is 360 but your cleat isn't. Your claim is baseless. Besides, I've told you this before, as have others, I can clip in just as fast as you.


Yet another are where you've potentially opened yourself to lawsuits.
ftc.gov/news-events/media-resources/truth-advertising

When consumers see or hear an advertisement, whether it’s on the Internet, radio or television, or anywhere else, federal law says that ad must be truthful, not misleading, and, when appropriate, *backed by scientific evidence.* The Federal Trade Commission enforces these truth-in-advertising laws, and it applies the same standards no matter where an ad appears – in newspapers and magazines, online, in the mail, or on billboards or buses. The FTC looks especially closely at advertising claims that can affect consumers’ health or their pocketbooks


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

tomato coupe said:


> Have you ever used any of the (many) two-sided pedals that are presently being sold?





Pitbull Pedal said:


> Truthfully no, but I do know with a 360 degree entry that even a crank brothers pedal with 4 sided entry cannot keep up to our 360 degree entry. I'm basing this off of logic but I could be wrong.


I think that pretty much sums it up. You keep declaring your pedals are the "fastest", yet you've never even tried any quick-and-easy, two-sided pedals.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Truthfully no, but I do know with a 360 degree entry that even a *crank brothers pedal with 4 sided entry* cannot keep up to our 360 degree entry. I'm basing this off of logic but I could be wrong.


I sure hope your pedal lasts longer than Cranks Brothers Egg Beaters. I got to 2K miles when one broke.


----------



## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> You don't see a lot of things. To make the claim of "WORLD's fastest" based only on your feeling is pretty shady.
> 
> Your spindle is 360 but your cleat isn't. Your claim is baseless. Besides, I've told you this before, as have others, I can clip in just as fast as you.
> 
> ...


I personally think you are just overstating this. We could go on and on for days/weeks/months on different subjects. I think that I need to state here that in my opinion it is the fastest pedal. With 360 degree entry and the cleat has nothing but forward entry, I do believe that it is the fastest. I would challenge any other pedal to be as fast as ours. Whether that means anything or not doesn't really matter. To us being faster means you're looking at the road sooner.

Thanks



tomato coupe said:


> I think that pretty much sums it up. You keep declaring your pedals are the "fastest", yet you've never even tried any quick-and-easy, two-sided pedals.


Lets just use logic here. 360 degree entry with a straight in motion for your cleat logically has to be faster.



Lombard said:


> I sure hope your pedal lasts longer than Cranks Brothers Egg Beaters. I got to 2K miles when one broke.


I don't see that we should have a problem with the pedals. I hope that the Crank Brothers replaced your pedal.


----------



## Backdash (Jan 26, 2016)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Lets just use logic here. 360 degree entry with a straight in motion for your cleat logically has to be faster.


Not that I agree or disagree with your "logic" but lets say that your "logic" is unflawed and concluded with good reasons and critical thinking.

To say something "has to be" true because its logical is a fallacy.
If you'd like an example LMK.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I personally think you are just overstating this. We could go on and on for days/weeks/months on different subjects. I think that I need to state here* that in my opinion it is the fastest pedal. *With 360 degree entry and the cleat has nothing but forward entry,* I do believe that it is the fastest*. I would challenge any other pedal to be as fast as ours.


You are so full of it. You are advertising ON YOUR WEBSITE that it IS the "Worlds Fastest". That's not an opinion. It's a statement of 'fact'.

Opinions are not facts. Not even close. You have no clue how silly you sound saying such a thing.






> Lets just use logic here. 360 degree entry with a straight in motion for your cleat logically has to be faster.


No it doesn't. You clearly do not have a grasp of logic.
If you push straight down with your foot, it will not engage. Your foot could be too far forward or too high and miss the pedal. Thus your logic is flawed and your opinion is meaningless.



> To us being faster means you're looking at the road sooner.


I clip in without looking at the pedals. My eyes are always on the road. 
Logically... yours must me slower.


----------



## dir-t (Oct 14, 2005)

When do the mods give Pitbull Pedal its own forum?


----------



## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Lets just use logic here. 360 degree entry with a straight in motion for your cleat logically has to be faster.


My foot contacts the pedal and engages immediately upon applying pressure. Put another way, it takes me no longer to click in and ride than to ride flats. 

Logically, NOTHING can be faster.


----------



## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Lets just use logic here. 360 degree entry with a straight in motion for your cleat logically has to be faster.


Of course, that same logic leads one to the conclusion that Aerolite pedals are just as fast to clip into.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

tomato coupe said:


> Of course, that same logic leads one to the conclusion that Aerolite pedals are just as fast to clip into.


So based on his 'logic' Aerolite's pedals are THE WORLDS FASTEST.


----------



## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Backdash said:


> Not that I agree or disagree with your "logic" but lets say that your "logic" is unflawed and concluded with good reasons and critical thinking.
> 
> To say something "has to be" true because its logical is a fallacy.
> If you'd like an example LMK.


I would like an example but don't come up with something easy. Come up with something that is 100% logical and try and figure a way to make it not logical. 

The definition that I have is (of an action, development, decision, etc.) natural or sensible given the circumstances.

That is why I'm saying that with 360 degree entry, logic wins.



tlg said:


> You are so full of it. You are advertising ON YOUR WEBSITE that it IS the "Worlds Fastest". That's not an opinion. It's a statement of 'fact'.
> 
> Opinions are not facts. Not even close. You have no clue how silly you sound saying such a thing.
> 
> ...


Based on what I referred to above I'm just basing it off of the logic that a 360 degree entry would be faster than 350 degree entry. I'm really starting to have fun now.

When I say pushing your foot directly in it is toe down and heel up. Therefore it is straight in.

Impossible unless you have a 360 degree entry. Time yourself, both feet on the ground 2 pedals clipped in and moving. Do it 10 times and come up with an average time, I'll do the same if you want (no cheating)



dir-t said:


> When do the mods give Pitbull Pedal its own forum?


If you would prefer to stop posting on this thread, I promise I won't answer you. To me this is all just been really fun and interesting as I'm new to this.




QuiQuaeQuod said:


> My foot contacts the pedal and engages immediately upon applying pressure. Put another way, it takes me no longer to click in and ride than to ride flats.
> 
> Logically, NOTHING can be faster.


I agree that flats would be the quickest. We'd be #2.



tomato coupe said:


> Of course, that same logic leads one to the conclusion that Aerolite pedals are just as fast to clip into.


I would think that they could possibly be as fast, except that they didn't work.



tlg said:


> So based on his 'logic' Aerolite's pedals are THE WORLDS FASTEST.


I guess we would be tied with them. Actually I do think that we'd be faster as the aerolites you had to find a vertical entry and then go directly down. Ours is a forward entry toe down and it happens during the power stroke of your secondary foot.


----------



## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I hope that the Crank Brothers replaced your pedal.


I suppose they would have if I had pursued it with them. I was on a long ride and happened upon a bike shop 7 miles later. I got a pair of Shimano SPDs and have never looked back.

Call me once bitten, twice shy. Springs should not shear that easily.


----------



## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

I had such high hopes. This thread had made down six spots. I thought maybe... maybe you guys had finally grown tired of beating this pedal horse to death.

But nope. It's back on top... coming up on page 15 for *%#@ sake.


----------



## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

tlg said:


> So based on his 'logic' Aerolite's pedals are THE WORLDS FASTEST.


So in truth in advertising, "the world's fastest" can still be true if Pit Bull pedals are tied with Aerolite's pedals as being the fastest. This is different than if Pit Bull claimed their pedals are "faster than any other pedal in the world".

Just saying.


----------



## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

OldZaskar said:


> But nope. It's back on top... coming up on page 15 for *%#@ sake.


Depends on how you have your account set up. I have 50 posts per page, so I'm only on Page 7.


----------



## Backdash (Jan 26, 2016)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I would like an example but don't come up with something easy. Come up with something that is 100% logical and try and figure a way to make it not logical.
> 
> The definition that I have is (of an action, development, decision, etc.) natural or sensible given the circumstances.
> 
> That is why I'm saying that with 360 degree entry, logic wins.


sent you a PM response
have a look there


----------



## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I agree that flats would be the quickest. We'd be #2.


You can't agree with *something I did not say.* So to be very clear, given your issues in communicating on this board...

It takes me NO LONGER to get started with my current pedals than with flats. I clip in on the FIRST DOWNSTROKE. So for me, your pedal CANNOT be faster.

Was that simple and clear enough? Probably not.


----------



## craiger_ny (Jun 24, 2014)

Have these been tested with coaster brakes? I understand that, due to the well known inferiority of disc brakes, coaster brakes are poised to make a huge comeback. Have these been tested with a load in the reverse direction? This can make a huge difference.

Food for thought (do not actually eat).


----------



## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> You can't agree with *something I did not say.* So to be very clear, given your issues in communicating on this board...
> 
> It takes me NO LONGER to get started with my current pedals than with flats. I clip in on the FIRST DOWNSTROKE. So for me, your pedal CANNOT be faster.
> 
> Was that simple and clear enough? Probably not.


That’s applied logic. You can’t clip in faster than a pedal that doesn’t require clipping in. I initially thought the pedals might have a niche for people nervous about clipping in. Starter pedals for example. I’m scared off the idea by the owners narcissism, it absolves him of any fault if they fail, at least in his mind. I ride Keo Blades, arguably the most finicky pedal to clip into as the back of the pedal is as light as the front so they don’t always sit nose up waiting for the clip-in. Hard to explain... But it’s so easy. You know the gear you ride. It’s second nature. It did take a bit of a learning curve. I wouldn’t trade the weight advantage for the clip in convenience. I like the feel of a light weight shoe and a light weight pedal. I may be in the minority thinking the idea has some potential but this iteration is hideously ugly looking and a boat anchor for weight. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Lombard said:


> I suppose they would have if I had pursued it with them. I was on a long ride and happened upon a bike shop 7 miles later. I got a pair of Shimano SPDs and have never looked back.
> 
> Call me once bitten, twice shy. Springs should not shear that easily.


I guess I'd have to agree, but I'm sure they've gone through extensive testing like I'm going to have to do. I guess every now and then something can just go wrong.



OldZaskar said:


> I had such high hopes. This thread had made down six spots. I thought maybe... maybe you guys had finally grown tired of beating this pedal horse to death.
> 
> But nope. It's back on top... coming up on page 15 for *%#@ sake.


Maybe some of us are just having fun and not taking life too serious. We're just trying to have fun with this new project and I have learned a few valuable tips along the way.




Backdash said:


> sent you a PM response
> have a look there


I will in a moment.



QuiQuaeQuod said:


> You can't agree with *something I did not say.* So to be very clear, given your issues in communicating on this board...
> 
> It takes me NO LONGER to get started with my current pedals than with flats. I clip in on the FIRST DOWNSTROKE. So for me, your pedal CANNOT be faster.
> 
> Was that simple and clear enough? Probably not.


Probably not is right, there is no way that you can clip 2 pedals in as fast as 2 flats and be on your way. It is impossible.



craiger_ny said:


> Have these been tested with coaster brakes? I understand that, due to the well known inferiority of disc brakes, coaster brakes are poised to make a huge comeback. Have these been tested with a load in the reverse direction? This can make a huge difference.
> 
> Food for thought (do not actually eat).


I don't know what you are saying. But I'm sure its good.



PBL450 said:


> That’s applied logic. You can’t clip in faster than a pedal that doesn’t require clipping in. I initially thought the pedals might have a niche for people nervous about clipping in. Starter pedals for example. I’m scared off the idea by the owners narcissism, it absolves him of any fault if they fail, at least in his mind. I ride Keo Blades, arguably the most finicky pedal to clip into as the back of the pedal is as light as the front so they don’t always sit nose up waiting for the clip-in. Hard to explain... But it’s so easy. You know the gear you ride. It’s second nature. It did take a bit of a learning curve. I wouldn’t trade the weight advantage for the clip in convenience. I like the feel of a light weight shoe and a light weight pedal. I may be in the minority thinking the idea has some potential but this iteration is hideously ugly looking and a boat anchor for weight.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I do agree that our steel pedals are heavier than some others. They could be made from titanium and save 40-50% of the weight. If you really think those grams on your feet on a rotating axle are going to make you that much faster. We just know that they are super easy to engage and they don't slip. No more or less.


----------



## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Probably not is right, there is no way that you can clip 2 pedals in as fast as 2 flats and be on your way. It is impossible.


The only time I unclip both feet is to get off the bike. I don't even set both feet on the ground on my commute bike when it has 50lbs loaded on it. But then I am a cyclist, not sure what you are.

As for how fast I used to be able to do two pedals *when such a thing mattered to me*....






0:38-0:40 if you don't have time for the full video. Your pedal won't speed that up, not that it is designed for cross racing of course.


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

How the $*@# are you guys not sick of this topic? Let. It. Die.


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## dir-t (Oct 14, 2005)

oldzaskar said:


> how the $*@# are you guys not sick of this topic? Let. It. Die.


dude!


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> The only time I unclip both feet is to get off the bike. I don't even set both feet on the ground on my commute bike when it has 50lbs loaded on it. But then I am a cyclist, not sure what you are.
> 
> As for how fast I used to be able to do two pedals *when such a thing mattered to me*....
> 
> ...


I'm sure that they shot this in 1 take. I only unclip a single foot unless I know that I'm going to be stuck at the intersection for a long light or whatever. I'm just saying that the process of riding a bike is both feet on the ground to pedaling with both pedals and moving forward.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

OldZaskar said:


> How the $*@# are you guys not sick of this topic? Let. It. Die.


I guess you are just not having as much fun as some of us are. I never started this to make anyone upset or angry. It has just been an interesting ride.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I'm sure that they shot this in 1 take.


I'm sure they did too. It's easy to do. Go watch a cyclocross race. They all do that.




> I'm just saying that the process of riding a bike is both feet on the ground to pedaling with both pedals and moving forward.


No, that is how you start riding your bike. The process (from start to finish) does not require putting both feet on the ground. That's just silly.

I looked back at my last two rides, both had 10 stops. So 90% of the time, only one foot is on the ground.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> I'm sure they did too. It's easy to do. Go watch a cyclocross race. They all do that.
> 
> 
> No, that is how you start riding your bike. The process (from start to finish) does not require putting both feet on the ground. That's just silly.
> ...


Interesting as I have never watched cyclocross racing. But it is pretty awesome if they can clip in every time that fast while jumping onto a bike on bumpy terrain.

Silly or not you do start with both feet on the ground. Some people choose to only unclip a single pedal for short stops but I prefer to unclip both feet to stretch my legs and calves a little bit after a long segment. But that is just my preference. I am riding with the fastest bike pedal 

That worked out good for you on that ride, some people may be a little different.


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## ROAD&DIRT (Mar 27, 2009)

tlg said:


> No, that is how you start riding your bike. The process (from start to finish) does not require putting both feet on the ground. That's just silly.
> 
> I looked back at my last two rides, both had 10 stops. So 90% of the time, only one foot is on the ground.


At every stop always one foot on the ground, even when sitting on the top tube waiting for light to change. Unless I'm getting of the bike, then two feet are needed.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> ... I prefer to unclip both feet to stretch my legs and calves a little bit after a long segment. But that is just my preference. I am riding with the fastest bike pedal


Actually, since you unclip from both pedals and tig only unclips from one, he is technically riding with the fastest bike pedal.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Some people choose to only unclip a single pedal for short stops but I prefer to unclip both feet to stretch my legs and calves a little bit after a long segment. But that is just my preference.


You need to get out more. 
I've rode with hundreds of people, of all riding abilities, and can't recall ever seeing someone unclip both feet at a stop. That's how silly it is. Your self importance of placing both feet down is not a selling point for your pedal.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

tlg said:


> I'm sure they did too. It's easy to do. Go watch a cyclocross race. They all do that.


Yes, they do. People who practice things get better at them, shockingly.

Let's just chalk this up to another case of someone claiming to be a cyclist being ignorant about the wider world of cycling. NTTAWWT, unless you are claiming to have all the answers in the face of people who have way more knowledge and experience.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Interesting as I have never watched cyclocross racing. But it is pretty awesome if they can clip in every time that fast while jumping onto a bike on bumpy terrain.
> 
> Silly or not you do start with both feet on the ground. Some people choose to only unclip a single pedal for short stops but I prefer to unclip both feet to stretch my legs and calves a little bit after a long segment. But that is just my preference. I am riding with the fastest bike pedal
> 
> That worked out good for you on that ride, some people may be a little different.


If you're going to manufacture something like a pedal you should really get out from under your rock and acquaint yourself w/ all aspects of cycling. I promise it will make your life easier at some point. If someone asks about your product and cyclocross and your answer is 'cyclocross?' you're gonna sound stupid.


----------



## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I'm just saying that the process of riding a bike is both feet on the ground to pedaling with both pedals and moving forward.


The process of riding a bike actually starts with putting on your cycling shorts, so maybe you should branch out with Pitbull Pants. If you make them bi-directional, logic says they will be the fastest shorts.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

tomato coupe said:


> The process of riding a bike actually starts with putting on your cycling shorts, so maybe you should branch out with Pitbull Pants. If you make them bi-diectional, logic says they will be the fastest shorts.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I guess I'd have to agree, but I'm sure they've gone through extensive testing like I'm going to have to do. I guess every now and then something can just go wrong.


For your sake and the sake of anybody who buys your pedals, I sure hope your "extensive testing" is better than that of Crank Brothers Egg Beaters.


----------



## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tomato coupe said:


> Actually, since you unclip from both pedals and tig only unclips from one, he is technically riding with the fastest bike pedal.


For one pedal yes



tlg said:


> You need to get out more.
> I've rode with hundreds of people, of all riding abilities, and can't recall ever seeing someone unclip both feet at a stop. That's how silly it is. Your self importance of placing both feet down is not a selling point for your pedal.


I do not put both feet on the ground at every stop. I don't think I've ever stated that I do at every stop. But if I have already been riding at a decent pace for an hour and I come to a significant stop I like to take both feet out and stretch a bit.



QuiQuaeQuod said:


> Yes, they do. People who practice things get better at them, shockingly.
> 
> Let's just chalk this up to another case of someone claiming to be a cyclist being ignorant about the wider world of cycling. NTTAWWT, unless you are claiming to have all the answers in the face of people who have way more knowledge and experience.


I would consider myself a cyclist but I'm definitely not an A rider or my next race would be the Tour-De-France. I just enjoy cycling a lot and it has changed my life. I just felt like we've come up with something that makes it easier and more enjoyable. Especially for the newbies.



cxwrench said:


> If you're going to manufacture something like a pedal you should really get out from under your rock and acquaint yourself w/ all aspects of cycling. I promise it will make your life easier at some point. If someone asks about your product and cyclocross and your answer is 'cyclocross?' you're gonna sound stupid.


I'm really just interested in road biking.



tomato coupe said:


> The process of riding a bike actually starts with putting on your cycling shorts, so maybe you should branch out with Pitbull Pants. If you make them bi-directional, logic says they will be the fastest shorts.


I'll leave the pants up to you to come up with. Good luck on your adventure.





velodog said:


>


Nice artwork I'll make a copy of it.



Lombard said:


> For your sake and the sake of anybody who buys your pedals, I sure hope your "extensive testing" is better than that of Crank Brothers Egg Beaters.


All I can say is we'll do the best we can ourselves and have them 3rd party tested. We hardly have any moving parts, I think we'll be good.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I would consider myself a cyclist but I'm definitely not an A rider or my next race would be the Tour-De-France.


Only a very tiny fraction of A-riders make the Tour de France.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I would consider myself a cyclist but I'm definitely not an A rider or my next race would be the Tour-De-France. I just enjoy cycling a lot and it has changed my life.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really just interested in road biking.


You really don't have any clue at all about racing, do you? You need to have some knowledge so you don't sound like an idiot when talking to customers/retailers/distributors. It doesn't matter that YOU are only interested in road riding. You'll get more random questions that you could ever imagine and you need to have a reasonably intelligent sound response. 
This is just another example of how under-prepared you are.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

so, I have no clue about the qualities of various woods (MDF is good, right?), doubt there's much difference in hardware options (hinges and drawer glides are all the same), and think 'dovetails' are found on birds.

thinking about opening up a high-end cabinet making shop...

thoughts?


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Lombard said:


> Only a very tiny fraction of A-riders make the Tour de France.


You are right, .0001



cxwrench said:


> You really don't have any clue at all about racing, do you? You need to have some knowledge so you don't sound like an idiot when talking to customers/retailers/distributors. It doesn't matter that YOU are only interested in road riding. You'll get more random questions that you could ever imagine and you need to have a reasonably intelligent sound response.
> This is just another example of how under-prepared you are.


No I haven't said that I was or am a racer, but I have busted many asses going across the courtney campbell bridge/bike trail.

My answer to a question that I do not know would just be that I unfortunately don't have the answer for that. This isn't a seasoned bike/pedal company, this is just a start up and we don't even have any product yet. Obviously there are people on this forum that know way more than I do about biking, which is great. I just know that I enjoy it and our pedals work just they way that I have stated.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I would consider myself a cyclist but I'm definitely not an A rider or my next race would be the Tour-De-France.


You should just stop talking about things you don't understand. 
An A rider isn't in the same league as a grand tour Pro. You wouldn't ever get selected to ride the TdF if you were just an A rider.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Oxtox said:


> so, I have no clue about the qualities of various woods (MDF is good, right?), doubt there's much difference in hardware options (hinges and drawer glides are all the same), and think 'dovetails' are found on birds.
> 
> thinking about opening up a high-end cabinet making shop...
> 
> thoughts?


Good comparison. I just have to say on my behalf that there is a lot more to building a complete kitchen or library vs having a thought of a new pedal, working out the bugs and seeing if something can start up.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Oxtox said:


> so, I have no clue about the qualities of various woods (MDF is good, right?), doubt there's much difference in hardware options (hinges and drawer glides are all the same), and think 'dovetails' are found on birds.
> 
> thinking about opening up a high-end cabinet making shop...
> 
> thoughts?


Hey I'd invest if you could design the Worlds Fastest cabinet doors . :idea:


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> You should just stop talking about things you don't understand.
> An A rider isn't in the same league as a grand tour Pro. You wouldn't ever get selected to ride the TdF if you were just an A rider.


I mistyped earlier and it lead you to believe that an A-riders next race would be the tour de france. It was obvious that I mistyped it.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I mistyped earlier and it lead you to believe that an A-riders next race would be the tour de france. It was obvious that I mistyped it.


Oh just stop. Your long history of knowing very little about the world of cycling says otherwise. 

And it's not 'obvious' it was a mistype when you specifically said "my next race". Your words were very clear.



> I would consider myself a cyclist but I'm definitely not an A rider *or my next race would be the Tour-De-France.*


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> Oh just stop. Your long history of knowing very little about the world of cycling says otherwise.
> 
> And it's not 'obvious' it was a mistype when you specifically said "my next race". Your words were very clear.


My words were very clearly mistyped. There would be no possible way for an A rider to move on to the TdF. You and I both know that, it was just a mistyping that was sent too quickly.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> My words were very clearly mistyped. There would be no possible way for an A rider to move on to the TdF. You and I both know that, it was just a mistyping that was sent too quickly.


There is no forgiveness on the internet. You make a mistake, you get trolled.


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I mistyped earlier ......


That's OK; by now we're used to that from you.


----------



## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I mistyped earlier ... It was obvious that I mistyped it.


Maybe it's not you. Maybe it's a janky keyboard. Maybe you should have *PitBullRoger*[SUP]®[/SUP] put your keyboard through his *UltimateRoger*[SUP]®[/SUP] *Super Slam-Dancin'*[SUP]®[/SUP] testing routine.


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## shermes (Jul 26, 2008)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> My words were very clearly mistyped. There would be no possible way for an A rider to move on to the TdF. You and I both know that, it was just a mistyping that was sent too quickly.


If you want to have any chance of success with your pedal you should find someone to take the shovel away from you when you start digging like this. Also go back and read the great advice people have given you with the intent to learn from it, instead of just replying to it with some sort of justification for what you're doing.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Lombard said:


> There is no forgiveness on the internet. You make a mistake, you get trolled.


I can see that. I'm not very up on this stuff like other people are. It is all still fun for me though.



No Time Toulouse said:


> That's OK; by now we're used to that from you.


Nice, at least you do understand a person can make a mistake.



SPlKE said:


> Maybe it's not you. Maybe it's a janky keyboard. Maybe you should have *PitBullRoger*[SUP]®[/SUP] put your keyboard through his *UltimateRoger*[SUP]®[/SUP] *Super Slam-Dancin'*[SUP]®[/SUP] testing routine.


Now this is really getting good. I did laugh at this.



shermes said:


> If you want to have any chance of success with your pedal you should find someone to take the shovel away from you when you start digging like this. Also go back and read the great advice people have given you with the intent to learn from it, instead of just replying to it with some sort of justification for what you're doing.


I have tried to where I can, and we have made changes along the way based off of responses here.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Not looking for a response, just trying to make an observation. Check out the video above from 3:12-6:30. Just saying!


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## BubbaGump (Feb 17, 2015)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Not looking for a response, just trying to make an observation. Check out the video above from 3:12-6:30. Just saying!


Dude. Let it go. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## chad.trent (Apr 4, 2016)

So wait... is the speed at which you clip in one of the selling points of this pedal? I'm not an expert by any means, but I've been riding clipless pedals for probably 15 years now and can only remember maybe two times it has taken me more than a half second to clip in. Both were because there was a lot of mud on my shoe on my mountain bike. I've never seen a road pedal that was hard to clip into or took over a second. And even if it took 3-4 seconds so what? Once I clip in I'm going to be riding for a few hours. So it's not like it's the pedals slowing me down.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for innovation and bringing new products to market. But if the main selling point is the speed of clipping in and out, that seems like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.


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## xxl (Mar 19, 2002)

chad.trent said:


> So wait... is the speed at which you clip in one of the selling points of this pedal? I'm not an expert by any means, but I've been riding clipless pedals for probably 15 years now and can only remember maybe two times it has taken me more than a half second to clip in. Both were because there was a lot of mud on my shoe on my mountain bike. I've never seen a road pedal that was hard to clip into or took over a second. And even if it took 3-4 seconds so what? Once I clip in I'm going to be riding for a few hours. So it's not like it's the pedals slowing me down.
> 
> Don't get me wrong. I'm all for innovation and bringing new products to market. But if the main selling point is the speed of clipping in and out, that seems like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.


Heck, it's not even clear it's a solution.


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## chad.trent (Apr 4, 2016)

xxl said:


> Heck, it's not even clear it's a solution.



That's true


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

And the conclusion is ... two-sided mountain bike pedals are easier to clip into than one-sided road pedals. We already knew that.


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## chad.trent (Apr 4, 2016)

tomato coupe said:


> And the conclusion is ... two-sided mountain bike pedals are easier to clip into than one-sided road pedals. We already knew that.



"easier" being a relative term. Neither are hard to get in or out of.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

BubbaGump said:


> Dude. Let it go.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


I was until I stumbled across the video with a professional company showing both feet on the ground and preforming their test. Just saying



chad.trent said:


> So wait... is the speed at which you clip in one of the selling points of this pedal? I'm not an expert by any means, but I've been riding clipless pedals for probably 15 years now and can only remember maybe two times it has taken me more than a half second to clip in. Both were because there was a lot of mud on my shoe on my mountain bike. I've never seen a road pedal that was hard to clip into or took over a second. And even if it took 3-4 seconds so what? Once I clip in I'm going to be riding for a few hours. So it's not like it's the pedals slowing me down.
> 
> Don't get me wrong. I'm all for innovation and bringing new products to market. But if the main selling point is the speed of clipping in and out, that seems like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.


There is a problem with clipping in, maybe you have just been one of the fortunate ones that have truly mastered it 100% of the time. Our main feature is clipping in quickly and that is not so much just to win a race but so you can look up quicker at traffic and other bikes in the group for safety reasons.



tomato coupe said:


> And the conclusion is ... two-sided mountain bike pedals are easier to clip into than one-sided road pedals. We already knew that.


Like I had mentioned that they did the test with both feet on the ground. Our pedals are faster than MTB pedals and other road bike pedals. Because of the 360 degree entry and you are into a more powerful stroke immediately as you engage.


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## chad.trent (Apr 4, 2016)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I was until I stumbled across the video with a professional company showing both feet on the ground and preforming their test. Just saying
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know. I do a lot of group rides, organized charity rides, etc. Ease and speed of clipping in and out have never seemed to be an issue.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> There is a problem with clipping in, maybe you have just been one of the fortunate ones that have truly mastered it 100% of the time. Our main feature is clipping in quickly and that is not so much just to win a race but so you can look up quicker at traffic and other bikes in the group for safety reasons.


As far as safety, can you claim that you can clip OUT faster than any other pedal? :idea:


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

chad.trent said:


> I don't know. I do a lot of group rides, organized charity rides, etc. Ease and speed of clipping in and out have never seemed to be an issue.


Sounds like you are a seasoned veteran, but lets not forget when we all first started as a newbie. I think that ours are just a better system, especially for newbies. They definitely will not hurt a veteran rider.



Lombard said:


> As far as safety, can you claim that you can clip OUT faster than any other pedal? :idea:


I would say no, we are equally as fast. The same motion is what it takes to disengage.


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## BubbaGump (Feb 17, 2015)

In a pinch, how easy is it to ride on your pedals with street shoes? Sometimes, I just ride down to the local brewery in street shoes and my spd sl pedals give me plenty of platform to stand on. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Sounds like you are a seasoned veteran, but lets not forget when we all first started as a newbie. I think that ours are just a better system, especially for newbies. They definitely will not hurt a veteran rider.


I would say that for newbies, ease of getting out is more of an issue than ease of getting in. Most newbies haven't developed the muscle memory and brain "programming" yet and don't automatically anticipate when stopping, then have an "Oh s#!t" moment before falling over. Having the "fastest pedal" clipping in won't solve this problem.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

BubbaGump said:


> In a pinch, how easy is it to ride on your pedals with street shoes? Sometimes, I just ride down to the local brewery in street shoes and my spd sl pedals give me plenty of platform to stand on.


I had a guy show up on one of my rides where he forgot his bike shoes. His pedals were Shimano SPD mountain pedals. I told him as long as he could keep up, he was welcome to ride with us. Believe it or not, he kept up with us on a 50+ mile ride in regular street shoes and SPD pedals!


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

BubbaGump said:


> In a pinch, how easy is it to ride on your pedals with street shoes? Sometimes, I just ride down to the local brewery in street shoes and my spd sl pedals give me plenty of platform to stand on.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


In this particular case you are out of luck as it is almost a theft deterrent as the spindle spins so freely it is almost impossible to speed away on this pedal. I'm not saying it is totally impossible, but it is super difficult.



Lombard said:


> I would say that for newbies, ease of getting out is more of an issue than ease of getting in. Most newbies haven't developed the muscle memory and brain "programming" yet and don't automatically anticipate when stopping, then have an "Oh s#!t" moment before falling over. Having the "fastest pedal" clipping in won't solve this problem.


Like I had said our pedal works just like all the other pedals, a simple kick out of the heel and you disengage. We have an adjustment setting on the pedal also to make it harder or easier to get out of. I have my pedals adjusted fairly hard for sprints but my partner keeps his relatively easy as he is a little older than I am but still getting after it.


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I was until I stumbled across the video with a professional company showing both feet on the ground and preforming their test. Just saying


This "two feet on the ground" stuff is irrelevant. The video doesn't change reality -- most riders start with one foot already clipped in, _especially_ if they're concerned about clipping in quickly.

(Also, if you watch the entire video, the conclusion they reach at the end is that they would still buy the single-sided road pedals, despite being able to clip into the mountain bike pedals a little bit quicker.)



> Our main feature is clipping in quickly and that is not so much just to win a race but so you can look up quicker at traffic and other bikes in the group for safety reasons.


If you're worried about clipping in quickly for safety reasons, you'd be better off starting with one foot already clipped in ... and a set of two-sided pedals.



> Our pedals are faster than MTB pedals and other road bike pedals. Because of the 360 degree entry and you are into a more powerful stroke immediately as you engage.


Let's be very clear about this: You have NOT ridden with mountain bike pedals or two-sided road pedals, so your claim is pulled out of thin air.



Pitbull Pedal said:


> I would say no, we are equally as fast. The same motion is what it takes to disengage.


Again, you've never ridden with mountain bike pedals or two-sided road pedals, so this claim is also pulled out of thin air.



Pitbull Pedal said:


> In this particular case you are out of luck as it is almost a theft deterrent as the spindle spins so freely it is almost impossible to speed away on this pedal. I'm not saying it is totally impossible, but it is super difficult.


Good sales pitch. That's a bit like arguing that a poorly-shifting derailleur deters theft because it is almost impossible to speed away without dropping a chain. 



BubbaGump said:


> Dude. Let it go.


+100


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tomato coupe said:


> This "two feet on the ground" stuff is irrelevant. The video doesn't change reality -- most riders start with one foot already clipped in, _especially_ if they're concerned about clipping in quickly.
> 
> (Also, if you watch the entire video, the conclusion they reach at the end is that they would still buy the single-sided road pedals, despite being able to clip into the mountain bike pedals a little bit quicker.)
> 
> ...


As far as 2 feet on the ground I just thought it was funny to come across a professional bike video company and they were making the point for me about having 2 feet on the ground. Just an observation on my end.

I agree, I think that road bike pedals should be for road bikes and mountain bike pedals for mountain bikes. I do no think that you need to wear road bike shoes to go to the store and buy your groceries and do a lot of walking. To simply get off and go into a coffee shop or get a Gatorade it is all the walking that should be done. Ours are just easier and quicker and I think that that is a benefit for some people.

You are correct, it is just pulled out of logic with 360 degree entry.

I see what you are trying to say but I do completely disagree. Our pedals do work perfectly but have an added feature to them as they are extremely hard to ride without the cleat.

If you prefer not to interact just simply don't respond to me or anyone else. The whole thing has just been super interesting and I have enjoyed it.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> As far as 2 feet on the ground I just thought it was funny to come across a professional bike video company and they were making the point for me about having 2 feet on the ground. Just an observation on my end.
> 
> I agree, I think that road bike pedals should be for road bikes and mountain bike pedals for mountain bikes. I do no think that you need to wear road bike shoes to go to the store and buy your groceries and do a lot of walking. To simply get off and go into a coffee shop or get a Gatorade it is all the walking that should be done. Ours are just easier and quicker and I think that that is a benefit for some people.
> 
> ...


How fast are your pedals if the cyclist tries to engage it and his\her foot is too far forward or rearward and misses the spindle?


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Our pedals ... have an added feature to them as they are extremely hard to ride without the cleat.


Did you think even think about this statement before you posted it?


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## BubbaGump (Feb 17, 2015)

tomato coupe said:


> Did you think even think about this statement before you posted it?


Has he for ANY statement he's made on this site? 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> In this particular case you are out of luck as it is almost a theft deterrent as the spindle spins so freely it is almost impossible to speed away on this pedal. I'm not saying it is totally impossible, but it is super difficult.


Ahhh, an anti-theft pedal! There you go. You should advertise this. Put these on your $10,000 bike and you don't even need to lock it! :thumbsup:


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## ogre (Dec 16, 2005)

Lombard said:


> Ahhh, an anti-theft pedal! There you go. You should advertise this. Put these on your $10,000 bike and you don't even need to lock it! :thumbsup:


Yeah, but if someone comes by with shoes with Pitbull cleats, they’ll be able to clip in ultra fast which will assist in their getaway.


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## BubbaGump (Feb 17, 2015)

ogre said:


> Yeah, but if someone comes by with shoes with Pitbull cleats, they’ll be able to clip in ultra fast which will assist in their getaway.




Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

ogre said:


> Yeah, but if someone comes by with shoes with Pitbull cleats, they’ll be able to clip in ultra fast which will assist in their getaway.


Hey, I have an idea. Make every set of Pitbull pedals have grooves in a different part of the spindle and cleats to match the grooves - a key of sorts. :idea:


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

velodog said:


> How fast are your pedals if the cyclist tries to engage it and his\her foot is too far forward or rearward and misses the spindle?


In that particular case, in my opinion, it is the simplest learning curve ever. All you do is put your toe down first and push forward. You have multiple inches that you can mess up and still clip in perfectly.



tomato coupe said:


> Did you think even think about this statement before you posted it?


Obviously to the best of my ability. I'm not the LOOK cycling company or Shiamano coming up with the perfect PR statements.



BubbaGump said:


> Has he for ANY statement he's made on this site?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Yes



Lombard said:


> Ahhh, an anti-theft pedal! There you go. You should advertise this. Put these on your $10,000 bike and you don't even need to lock it! :thumbsup:


I would still lock up my high end bike. I'm just saying if you are expecting to jump on a bike and speed off to make your getaway then you'd be in for a rude awakening.



ogre said:


> Yeah, but if someone comes by with shoes with Pitbull cleats, they’ll be able to clip in ultra fast which will assist in their getaway.


Its the perfect crime.



BubbaGump said:


> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Image did not appear.



Lombard said:


> Hey, I have an idea. Make every set of Pitbull pedals have grooves in a different part of the spindle and cleats to match the grooves - a key of sorts. :idea:


Its nice that we are all having fun with this conversation.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> In that particular case, in my opinion, it is the simplest learning curve ever. All you do is put your toe down first and push forward. You have multiple inches that you can mess up and still clip in perfectly.


That's pretty much how any road pedal works.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Its nice that we are all having fun with this conversation.


Now you're catching on! :thumbsup:


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

velodog said:


> That's pretty much how any road pedal works.


In theory I agree, but with 360 degrees of straight in entry there is nothing to orientate. That is what makes the pedal so fast and easy to operate.



Lombard said:


> Now you're catching on! :thumbsup:


:thumbsup:


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## BubbaGump (Feb 17, 2015)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> In theory I agree, but with 360 degrees of straight in entry there is nothing to orientate. That is what makes the pedal so fast and easy to operate.


With proper care and maintenance, just about every single road pedal on the market already self-orientates. My Shimanos are always facing the right way when I step on them. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> In theory I agree, but with 360 degrees of straight in entry there is nothing to orientate. That is what makes the pedal so fast and easy to operate.


Except it's not only straight in. That's a single X direction. You have an X, Y, and Z direction to orientate.


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## ncr (Apr 13, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> In theory I agree, but with 360 degrees of straight in entry there is nothing to orientate. That is what makes the pedal so fast and easy to operate.
> 
> 
> 
> :thumbsup:


 More of the POWERCRANK nonsense.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

BubbaGump said:


> With proper care and maintenance, just about every single road pedal on the market already self-orientates. My Shimanos are always facing the right way when I step on them.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


You have an awesome set of shiamanos. People all over youtube/etc talk about clipping in and the difficulties to do it. Especially when you have to do it going up hill or on a bridge. We're just offering another option just like Chevy/Ford/Buick/Etc.



tlg said:


> Except it's not only straight in. That's a single X direction. You have an X, Y, and Z direction to orientate.


I believe in CnC terms we have 2 axis. You just put your foot down and then in.



ncr said:


> More of the POWERCRANK nonsense.


There is no powercrank nonsense. As soon as I push down with my left foot (for me) the right pedal comes up and my foot drives right into the axle and I'm pushing hard with my right foot. Therefore I am ahead of all bike pedals, virtually every time. As someone could get lucky.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I believe in CnC terms we have 2 axis. You just put your foot down and then in.


I don't care what you believe. You have 3 axis of movement. Front to back. Up and down. Side to side. Hence... we live in a three dimensional world. This is undebatable. So just... stop.

Your shoe clips in pushing forward (that is ONE direction, not 360°). If you are not aligned up/down or side/side, you'll miss the spindle.


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## xxl (Mar 19, 2002)

"Orientate" might be acceptable in some circles, but "2 axis" cannot stand!

(And it's infecting other posters!  )

Or one day, we may find ourselves talking about how Pitbowl Peddles are the Phastest in the Wurld.

https://www.dailywritingtips.com/do-you-orient-yourself-or-orientate-yourself/

Difference between Axis and Axes | Axis vs Axes

cxwrench shouldn't get to have all the fun!


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

tlg said:


> Except it's not only straight in. That's a single X direction. You have an X, Y, and Z direction to orientate.


Don't let 3 dimensions get in the way of a great product!  




Pitbull Pedal said:


> You have an awesome set of shiamanos.




Shiamanos?? Don't you mean Shimanos?


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

tlg said:


> I don't care what you believe. You have 3 axis of movement. Front to back. Up and down. Side to side. Hence... we live in a three dimensional world. This is undebatable. So just... stop.
> 
> Your shoe clips in pushing forward (that is ONE direction, not 360°). If you are not aligned up/down or side/side, you'll miss the spindle.


You are forgetting the 4th dimension - time. If you don't instruct the user WHEN they can clip in, they can't clip in.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Lombard said:


> You are forgetting the 4th dimension - time. If you don't instruct the user WHEN they can clip in, they can't clip in.


You're forgetting the 5th dimension









Mr. Myxlplyx


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Did someeone say "The Fifth Dimension"?


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

velodog said:


> You're forgetting the 5th dimension
> 
> View attachment 326407
> 
> ...


There are 11 quasi-known dimensions.

Try to keep up velodawg.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

SPlKE said:


> There are 11 quasi-known dimensions.
> 
> Try to keep up velodawg.







Got it!


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> I don't care what you believe. You have 3 axis of movement. Front to back. Up and down. Side to side. Hence... we live in a three dimensional world. This is undebatable. So just... stop.
> 
> Your shoe clips in pushing forward (that is ONE direction, not 360°). If you are not aligned up/down or side/side, you'll miss the spindle.


I would believe that yiou are right. You are obviously more of an engineer type person than I am.



xxl said:


> "Orientate" might be acceptable in some circles, but "2 axis" cannot stand!
> 
> (And it's infecting other posters!  )
> 
> ...


Thanks



Lombard said:


> Don't let 3 dimensions get in the way of a great product!
> 
> Shiamanos?? Don't you mean Shimanos?


Yes, I did mean shimanos. My bad.




Lombard said:


> You are forgetting the 4th dimension - time. If you don't instruct the user WHEN they can clip in, they can't clip in.





velodog said:


> You're forgetting the 5th dimension
> 
> 
> 
> ...





velodog said:


> Did someeone say "The Fifth Dimension"?





SPlKE said:


> There are 11 quasi-known dimensions.
> 
> Try to keep up velodawg.





velodog said:


> Got it!



You guys have put some thought into this, some of it is really funny.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

Hey everyone, I think I'm going to sign off for a while. We have placed our order in China to get our sample. We have requested 10 and I have contacted a few third party testing companies to test our system. I think when I get the samples I will write another thread and we can start having some fun again. Everyone have a great Xmas or holiday, unless we get our samples before then. 

I'll respond here if if anyone has a question but I won't post anything new otherwise.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I would believe that yiou are right. You are obviously more of an engineer type person than I am.


You don't need to be an engineering type person. An elementary education should suffice.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

tlg said:


> You don't need to be an engineering type person. An elementary education should suffice.


Excuse me for trying to compliment you.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> Excuse me for trying to compliment you.


No good deed goes unpunished around here.


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## Pitbull Pedal (Feb 19, 2018)

:d !!


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## tomato coupe (Nov 8, 2009)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I'll respond here if if anyone has a question but I won't post anything new otherwise.


That didn't last long ...


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

tomato coupe said:


> That didn't last long ...


Oh, please! If only.......


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

Pitbull Pedal said:


> I'll respond here if if anyone has a question but I won't post anything new otherwise.


and I thought prayer didn't work...


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