# My road bike fitting session in review



## jfd986 (Jul 17, 2011)

I was gonna ask more people about which fitter to choose and where to go, but the cycling club memberships were closed until Jan, and they sometimes skip morning rides because of weather, and I don't have any riding partners, so I just checked on some forums and called the places and ended up going to La Bicicletta. The fitter's name is Heath, and he used to race road, but only did a handful of tri events and not competitively as far as I know.

I'm gonna try to keep this as unbiased as possible, and then open it up to commentary.

I showed up 15 minutes early to suit up and whatnot, it's snowing in Toronto so I couldn't show up in shorts. Heath put the bike in a trainer and asked me a few basic questions, and I opened with whichever problems I was having with the bike (hands hurt after hard braking for a while on the hoods with lobsters, neck and shoulder soreness after 2+ hours some days, saddle soreness after 3 hours of riding) and then Heath got me into the saddle and I started pedalling. He noticed I was bouncing in the saddle and that I was too stretched out on the bike, and immediately suggested I might need a new seat. Then I asked him how much a new seat would cost, and while he was sitting me down on a gel pad to measure how far apart my sit bones were, he told me that a new seat would cost between 150-200 dollars. After he measured the width of the sit bones (there were calipers on the same unit as the gel pad and he moved them to dial in the width to match the imprints), he measured my seat and said that it was the right width.

So now he said he had to explore other options. He got me to keep pedalling and then stopped my feet at 3 o clock, and noticed that I didn't quite have adequate KOP. He noticed this by measuring with a spirit level for his vertical. Then he went off to find a zero-offset seat post, and returned 10 minutes later to find a used carbon seatpost from his spin bike. 

free shipping 100% original BONTRAGER RACE X LITE carbon fibre seatpost,bike seatposts 31.6*350mm-in Bicycle Seat Post from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com

It wasn't exactly like this, but it was similar.

So he put it on, and my position improved considerably. Then he said that the next major improvement he would want to make would be to switch out my handlebars for smaller, compact handlebars. He suggested the FSA wing pro compact handlebars, 42 cm center to center of bar ends. He quoted $150, possibly including labour.

He adjusted my cleats by getting me to stand naturally and arranging the cleats according to how I was standing. Fore-aft alignment was based on the "new-neutral" paradigm, which I forgot the explanation of and have to look up.

He remarked that I have a nice high cadence (90-110), apparently I was spinning and ankling the whole time he was watching. He remarked that I probably get up hills well, and I told him my technique had been beaten into me from advice online.

He didn't insist on the handlebar swap out because he felt that the seat post swap out would be a big enough change to increase my performance and start engaging my core more on the bike, so as is my muscles would have enough to get used to. He did recommend I change the handlebars out sooner rather than later though, and advised against buying used.

He did not want to size me for a frame that I would later buy and build, because he said that fit is dynamic, and that I should get used to the changes in optimization of my current fit that he had made, if not the handlebar change as well, before I seek out a frame to build up. He said that, though road biking is a game of diminishing returns in terms of improvements, I am still very much new to the sport that the changes he had suggested would make considerable improvements and change my force distribution, power , and muscle growth as well.

The fitting hour cost 60+ tax, the seat post cost 30. 101.70, and he called it 100 even.

So what do you guys think?


-----------------------------------------

I liked the fitting session a lot. His name is Heath, he works at La Bicycletta, and I recommend him without reservation to any new cyclist.

I was thinking of getting the FSA Omega compact handlebars instead of the Wing Pro, because the Omega compacts are $34.24 as seen below. If anyone can find a better price than this for 42 cm, PLEASE let me know I'd greatly appreciate it. 

Amazon.com: FSA Omega Compact Handlebar: Sports & Outdoors


----------



## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

La Bicycletta's reputation spreads to this side of the lake, so I think you done good with your choice.

The fitting session sounds pretty typical for a first time paid fit. The price is very good. On my side of the lake they start at US$100 per hour.

The strategy of modest changes over time is a good one. Starting with the saddle/BB relationship change is the right place. 

Heath put it more succinctly than I did in the other thread, about fit being dynamic. It will change over time. So wait until you're ready to order before getting measured for a new frame.

It also bodes well for a long-term thing that he didn't insist on fitting new bars today. He's thinking he wants to do right by you rather than grab all the cash he can get now. 

Bars are also a personal preference thing in shape as well as width. Although they're out of fashion and harder than hen's teeth to find in a 40cm, I really like early 2000s anatomic bars. 

I've also learned that I don't care for the current trend of short and shallow bars, also known as "compact". I like to drop when I get into the drops, and I like longer ramps, so I adjust the reach with the stem, not the bars. So think about your bars, how you use them, and what feels right and what doesn't before shopping for them. Lotsa guys like compact bars. Maybe you will too.

I've come to like narrower bars too. I've been trading down from 42 to 40cm width.

Finally, I was thinking about you and what I said in your other thread about the costs of parts replacement in fittings. After the fact I realized it could come off as @$$holeish and elitist. That's not the way I meant it. 

What I was meaning was that stems are cheap compared to repetitive-motion-injuries. Fittings are supposed to prevent RSIs. Also, if your goal remains racing, one of the golden rules is that sooner or later, you will crash. So don't race anything you can't afford to replace. Next to a whole bike, stems are also really cheap.

Hope I didn't leave a bad impression with that other post, and if I did, I hope this helps clear it up.

And I'm glad things seem to have gone well today.


----------



## DS1239622 (Mar 21, 2007)

Bruce, where did you have your fitting done this side of the lake? I'm in Rochester myself. I had a quick fitting done years ago when I bought my road bike. I was a total noob at the time and my fit was a very upright beginner position. Since then my fitness and strength has improved a lot and I've made a myriad of adjustments myself over the years towards a more aggressive position. I don't suffer from any pain or soreness issues but I'm thinking it might be time to have a professional check my fit in light of my new riding style and goals. Any recommendations?


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Well, seeing as the fitter was with you, working one on one with you and I'm reading your experiences at my computer, I tend to withhold second guessing, barring them straying too far from what I refer to as best practices. I see no evidence of that here.

That said, I'm not a fan of no-setback posts and see them as compromises employed when a bikes geo isn't ideal for the riders anatomy, so I'd be curious on Heath's 'take' on that. Not knowing your initial set up, it's just a guess, but I suspect your frame is on the large side for you. Or (at minimum) you need a somewhat steeper ST angle. Bottom line (and my impression) is that the fitter did what he saw as necessary to get you in a good f/r position on that frame. 

I'm of an opposing opinion re: compact bars, finding them very user friendly for the majority of recreational cyclists (meaning, of average flexibility). Because of their relatively shallow drop and short reach, they allow for a moderate stem angle/ spacer set up, following that riders are more apt to use all available bar positions. My favorites were Specialized Expert ergo's, but Ritchey Logic ll Pros are a close second. 

Ritchey Logic - Road - Bars - Pro Logic II

Re: cleat set up, I don't think we pedal like we stand or walk, so I'd initially go with a neutral left/ right position (utilizing float) and fore/ aft set so that the ball of foot is slightly forward of the pedal spindle. But if this fitters method works for you, that's all that matters. Either way, it's an initial position that can be changed as saddle time builds.

Agree with fit being dynamic, evolving and just about everything else you've mentioned. Re: the saddle, there's more to the right fit than getting the sit bones measured and accommodated, because saddle shape/ contours/ padding/ fit and form all play a role, but you'll have time to sort that out.


----------



## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

DS1239622 said:


> I'm in Rochester myself. < snip > Any recommendations?


I've used two shops, and two fitters at each shop. I've had good and not so good experiences at each shop. 

At Full Moon Vista Bike & Sport in the South Wedge, the owner, Scott, most recently helped me tremendously when I took in all four of my bikes. I had one (see below) that was really good, and the other three were all over the place. I was able to explain what I liked and disliked about each one (primarily how each engaged or failed to engage different muscle groups) and reach a new position that really seemed to click. Then, despite wildly different frame geometries, we got my contact points in the same position on each bike. 

Scott also was the first person to ever tell me I need orthotic insoles in my shoes, even my regular shoes. No one in 55 years ever told me that the reason I walk funny (and pedal funny) was because I needed orthotics. My whole posture--both on and off the bike--has improved.

I've also used Park Ave Bike Shop's main store at Monroe and Clover. Ask for Andy there, he's also the owner. Andy gave me my first really good fitting on my Litespeed. A year later, that fitting, tweaked just a little (remember, fitting is dynamic), formed the basis for the four bike marathon session I had at FMV. I'd have gone back to Andy, but I live in the city and don't own a car. It was easier to haul bikes over to FMV strapped to my backpack.

Previously at each shop, I'd been fitted by someone else (in each case they no longer work there), who had a different communicating style from me and we really talked at cross-purposes. While close enough, and not injury producing, I wasn't satisfied in either case. What I learned was that personal communications style really matters.

Also, it's hard getting an appointment with the owners, since they have so many other responsibilities in their shops. But both these guys have been fitting folks for decades, and for me, it was worth the wait and additional expense to get an appointment with them.


----------



## jfd986 (Jul 17, 2011)

I think I needed to hear what you said on the other thread, because those who followed me when I was repairing my first road bike would have noticed that I am always reluctant to spend money, and it would have obviously been necessary to spend money here if it means keeping me ergonomic on the road. It's not like I'm ordering zipps or anything. I have to learn that, sometimes, I need to spend money when it counts, and cycling is one of those sports where there can be a great deal of initial "when it counts" expenditure. If someone wants to play soccer or basketball, court shoes and cleats, shin pads, cup, they only cost so much, but in cycling your bike is essential gear, and everybody doesn't always start out with the gear that's right for them.

That's clearly what happened with me here, but I don't regret anything I've done thus far, because if I went to la bicicletta and tried to buy a bike there in the first place, I would have ended up not buying anything because the prices would have scared me away. I'm fine throwing $30 here and there at this bike if it means it will avoid sports injury, and I'm fine buying a new saddle as long as there's a measurable benefit to it. I just cringe when I hear these things up front because, once I hear about one expenditure that could come up, I'm not sure how much more I'd need to spend on within the fitting session. Thankfully it was just the seat post, and then potentially new handlebars (which I'll likely be ordering shortly). Interestingly enough, Heath said that a shorter stem would not be a good idea because apparently, as far as he saw it, my stem was already quite short (90 mm).

PJ do you think the saddle properties of which you spoke and the anatomy of the rider would be explored in more detail in a pro fit? ($100/hour, minimum 2 hours, they call it a 2D fit at La Bicicletta. There's also a 3D fit, where they start by putting you on a massage table and checking all your ranges of motion, maybe that's where the whole anatomy thing comes into play more for them. That fit takes 3.5-4.5 hours). I agree that he looked mainly at front/rear positioning, and that the bike possibly is large for me, but I think Heath was trying to work with whatever he could, because he knew I wasn't going to kijiji this bike and buy another one off him. Also, say this bike does run large for me, who's to say my ideal frame sizing won't change when my riding posture and muscles engaged change as a result of this fit? I understand that I likely won't "grow into" this frame, it's unreasonable and naive to believe that, but I think what he said made sense in terms of waiting until I have a few thousand more miles down and have dialed in more before deciding to go after the specific triangle to buy and build up. Along those lines, it may be premature for him to tell me just how too-big this frame is for me, since according to him I haven't really rode in it yet.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

jfd986 said:


> PJ do you think the saddle properties of which you spoke and the anatomy of the rider would be explored in more detail in a pro fit? ($100/hour, minimum 2 hours, they call it a 2D fit at La Bicicletta. There's also a 3D fit, where they start by putting you on a massage table and checking all your ranges of motion, maybe that's where the whole anatomy thing comes into play more for them. That fit takes 3.5-4.5 hours). I agree that he looked mainly at front/rear positioning, and that the bike possibly is large for me, but I think Heath was trying to work with whatever he could, because he knew I wasn't going to kijiji this bike and buy another one off him. Also, say this bike does run large for me, who's to say my ideal frame sizing won't change when my riding posture and muscles engaged change as a result of this fit? I understand that I likely won't "grow into" this frame, it's unreasonable and naive to believe that, but I think what he said made sense in terms of waiting until I have a few thousand more miles down and have dialed in more before deciding to go after the specific triangle to buy and build up. Along those lines, it may be premature for him to tell me just how too-big this frame is for me, since according to him I haven't really rode in it yet.


To a large extent, you (and Heath) have answered your questions. 

Your fit _will_ evolve, but you won't 'grow into' your current frame - specifically, your femurs won't grow making the no-setback post unnecessary. So, I agree with Heath that you aren't ready for that 'perfect' frame just yet, because your body hasn't fully acclimated to road riding. With more saddle time, increased fitness and (possibly) as your style of riding evolves, you'll learn more about what you want in that next bike.

BTW, your mention of a 90mm stem affirms by belief that 1) your frame is a tad large for you and 2) Heath employed the no-setback post to compromise (minimally and correctly) for that.

As far as a pro fit addressing a riders femur length and STA requirements, it would, but you don't need a pro fit to make those determinations. A standard fitting (which I think is basically what you just got - albeit, a good one) can do the same. 

Pro fits (IMO) really prove their value when someone has unique fit issues that are causing some discomfort, and remedies elude the cyclist and/ or other fitters. These can be due to a riders proportions, flexibility (or lack thereof), pedaling deficiencies caused by LLD/ injuries, the need for shims, orthotics, wedges (among others). And sometimes, they identify issues we don't know exist. So while not everyone _needs_ a pro fit, most (IMO) _could_ benefit from them. 

You could inquire about it, but your use of the terms 2D and 3D leads me to think the pro fit that shop offers is Specialized BG FIT. If so, it generally gets good reps, but (aligned with what Heath has offered) I'd hold off on that till you build some saddle time/ fitness.

Lastly, re: your comments on financial expenditures, two things to keep in mind that may help you pick and choose what to buy... 1) what does this purchase 'get' me in the way of comfort/ efficiency, and 2) can it be moved to my next bike. A positive response to one or both of those questions (sometimes) makes the purchase a little more palatable.


----------



## jfd986 (Jul 17, 2011)

What are LLD and STA?

I thought the idea was to keep both bikes because you needed one as a beater or something, or to sell one bike to be able to pay for the next bike. I was actually soon the exact opposite thing you were doing, I was multiplying the cost of an item by 2! Haha

I don't really know how it normally works though, because I've only ever had two bikes and the first one was wicked old (COMPARATIVELY). Even though I did manage to sell it for 200 in Toronto, nothing, maybe the seat if need be and I didn't need to, was transferable. Maybe the jagwire cable, and that's unreasonable even for me I think, plus the cable lengths would be different haha.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

jfd986 said:


> What are LLD and STA?


LLD = leg length discrepancy
STA = Seat tube angle 



jfd986 said:


> I thought the idea was to keep both bikes because you needed one as a beater or something, or to sell one bike to be able to pay for the next bike. I was actually soon the exact opposite thing you were doing, I was multiplying the cost of an item by 2! Haha
> 
> *I don't really know how it normally works *though, because I've only ever had two bikes and the first one was wicked old (COMPARATIVELY). Even though I did manage to sell it for 200 in Toronto, nothing, maybe the seat if need be and I didn't need to, was transferable. Maybe the jagwire cable, and that's unreasonable even for me I think, plus the cable lengths would be different haha.


IME, there is no 'normal' way this works, so "all of the above" _plus some_ may be the way it works for you. I tend to keep my bikes awhile and am fairly particular about upgrading, yet (somehow) my basement now resembles a small LBS, with spare frames, forks, saddles, stems, wheelsets and other assorted 'stuff' lying around. 

Best you can do is use my two prerequisites and hope for the best. But yes, it's safe to say if you stay with this, you'll accumulate spare parts along the way.


----------



## perpetuum_mobile (Nov 30, 2012)

I agree on compact bars. It is a good idea. A lot of people I see only ride with hands on hoods because they can not tolerate a huge drop. For an average cycling enthusiast compact bars will make the drop position comfortable or at last sustainable for 1-2 hour rides.

You don't need to spend a lot. You can find nice aluminum bars for $20-30.


----------



## jfd986 (Jul 17, 2011)

perpetuum_mobile said:


> You can find nice aluminum bars for $20-30.


Where? I can't find them online, the cheapest I could find was for $35 on Amazon. 
can you link me something?


----------



## Newnan3 (Jul 8, 2011)

I have ergo bars because thats what came with my bike. If I wasnt so lazy about having to switch all the stuff over and re-wrap the bars I'd get compact bars. 

Im relatively flexible but I think compacts would be more suitable for me ....


----------



## perpetuum_mobile (Nov 30, 2012)

jfd986 said:


> Where? I can't find them online, the cheapest I could find was for $35 on Amazon.
> can you link me something?


Try fleabay. This is what I found in quick search:

New Scott Pilot Pro Road Bars 42 cm Compact Curve | eBay

I have very nice Avenir 200 series bars that I bought from Amazon. I like the flat tops a lot and they were about $35. Avenir is not a very fancy brand, but once you wrap them with tape it does not matter.


----------



## perpetuum_mobile (Nov 30, 2012)

Here is some nice info on bar geometry: Road Drop Bar Geometry : La Rueda Tropical


----------



## perpetuum_mobile (Nov 30, 2012)

Sorry for the spam but those Avenir bars does not really fit under "compact" category. However, they are very comfortable.

See the link above, there is a very good comparison between various bars!


----------



## jfd986 (Jul 17, 2011)

Went with the fsa omega compacts off amazon, turned out shipping to canada was just another 2 dollars. Didn't wanna pick up white bar tape but I think it matches the white frame and black hoods black seat post black stem so would appreciate cleaning tips for bar tape (outside of soft warm cloth)


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

jfd986 said:


> Went with the fsa omega compacts off amazon, turned out shipping to canada was just another 2 dollars. Didn't wanna pick up white bar tape but I think it matches the white frame and black hoods black seat post black stem so would *appreciate cleaning tips for bar tape* (outside of soft warm cloth)


The _type_ of tape you opt for will (to a point) dictate how often and which cleaner/ method works best. 

Here's a thread on the topic, along with my recommendation for _type_. 
How to keep white handlebar tape clean? - Page 2

Specialized Bicycle Components


----------



## jfd986 (Jul 17, 2011)

After reading that thread, I have decided to go with black tape. It will never need cleaning, and when it gets dirty, I will never need consoling.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

jfd986 said:


> ... I have decided to go with black tape.


:thumbsup:

The closest I'll come to adding 'color' is to go with the black/ white tape pictured in the link I provided earlier. That particular synthetic cleans up pretty well with warm water and a little dish washing liquid on a towel.


----------



## jfd986 (Jul 17, 2011)

Okay so my legs were getting a bit sore prematurely after riding in my new fit, and when I went back to Heath I learned two things:

1) Adjusting to the new fit is going to take time, 

And something that someone mentioned on here before:

2) I should be going a lot easier than I currently am

To determine that my fit was indeed correct, Heath pointed a tripod-mounted laser at my leg. Not sure what he was testing, but it turned out to be fine. He said that, after a few thousand kilometers, if I still had trouble with the legs or the saddle after switching out the handlebars (which should be arriving around January 21st), then the next (and, fit-wise, the last) thing for him to experiment with would be changing the saddle. Which leads me to my next question.

The saddle, is not .... level. Facing the cockpit from in front of the bike and looking directly at the saddle, one can tell that one side of the saddle droops slightly compared to the other side. This has nothing to do with rail alignment, as the saddle is appropriately installed in the seat post. Is this something I should endeavor to correct immediately? Because it's not directly causing any current issues now that the bike has been adjusted and the seatpost has been switched out to fit. I was thinking of calling the bike store and asking them if they would order a new saddle under warranty, has anyone done that or tried that? On my test ride the other day, I did not have any problems with the fit. Today I felt a bit uncomfortable, but I was missing a layer in -8 (Celsius) so that may have contributed to my discomfort. Also, I was told that muscular discomfort is expected, and my discomfort was not perineal so I think it might have to do with my legs and core having to work differently.

I feel more upright on the bike, and I feel like my legs stretch out less. I definitely did not bounce on the seat as much as I previously would, infact hardly at all.

To solve the #2 issue, I bought a Polar CS100 HRM cyclocomputer off kijiji for $30 new and unused, hopefully the thing works because my Louis Garneau DC20 just started giving me problems today. I think it may be the cold. I hope it's the cold, otherwise there's some OTHER problem that I can't anticipate. It was working indoors, but once I took the bike out it stopped registering speed. I'm hoping (albeit naively and half-jokingly) that, with a name like "Polar" , this computer won't fail on the speed readout. And when my $5 gift card for amazon comes in, I guess I'll splurge on the cadence sensor as well.


----------



## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I wasn't there, but I can't help wondering if Heath ran out of space on your current seat post before selling you a new one, and remarking that he suggested selling you a saddle before setting up the one you have correctly. Things went very much in the other order when I got fit, and I ended up only buying a stem and some insoles, beyond the fee for the fit itself.

It sounds like you may be due for a new saddle anyway. Sounds like a bent rail. FWIW, I like the Specialized Avatar, and it fits in well with their business of measuring your sit bones. However, my favorite saddle cost me $35. Just wish I had more of them - it was produced a long time ago. 

Glad you found the FSA Omega. I have that on my 'cross bike and I like it a lot. The flattened top on the Wing Pro is kind of cool too, though - have it on my road bike. I wanted to keep the round top section on the 'cross bike.

I'm a newcomer to heart rate monitors myself. I borrowed a Polar RS 300X for a couple of weeks in November to get a feel for using heart rate. I'm not sure where the research comes from - I think it's some variant of TRIMP - but Polar has a web service, polarpersonaltrainer.com, that charts training fatigue and can help to plan workouts. It seemed to match what I felt my fatigue level was well enough, and there is some empirical research behind it; I thought it was cool. So definitely check that out. Overworking is supposed to be pretty endemic to endurance athletes and those of us who enjoy thinking we are. Steady-state training feels way different from what I used to do, even when I was trying to maintain an even effort. Ask me in a few months if it's any better.


----------



## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

WRT to needing another layer at -8°C, this is the time of year when my sweat management strategy shifts from wicking it away to trying not to sweat in the first place. Getting wet in the winter is the first step towards hypothermia. 

I don't wear my HRM strap through the winter because it causes a lot of sweat underneath, no matter how cold it gets. As the sweat runs down my torso, I get chilled. Sometimes, if I was out long enough, my belly would get cold and bright red, same as my cheeks. I'm much more comfortable without it. Although Friday morning's commute into headwinds gusting to 45 MPH (72 km/h), it would have been interesting to see the number associated with the effort.


----------



## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

I think 60 bucks for such a comprehensive fitting is a great deal. Here in Kingston at Cyclepath, it's 150 bucks, at TI Cycle in Gananoque it's 400 bucks (states it's a 4.5 hour session). 

JFD & Bruce: How in the heck do you guys bike in the cold and with all the snow we've gotten?


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

jfd986 said:


> Okay so my legs were getting a bit sore prematurely after riding in my new fit, and when I went back to Heath I learned two things:
> 
> 1) Adjusting to the new fit is going to take time,
> 
> ...


Yes, your new fit/ position will take some time to get accustomed to, but that's all part of your fit (and form) evolving. Not knowing your exertion level, I can't comment on your 'going a lot easier', but if you suspect that's the case, you're probably right. Better to (sometimes) drop intensity and up duration to build endurance.

Not certain, but the laser was likely tracking your pedal stroke. 'Too much' left/ right knee motion is called excessive knee frontal plane motion and (if not corrected) can lead to knee pain.

Re: the offset saddle, pursue that with the LBS that sold you the bike. That should be considered a warranty issue. However, I'd be curious to know why Heath would experiment with a new saddle if you continued to experience leg fatigue. 

Re: the problems with your HRM, they only work when the strap picks up your heart beat and (in lieu of the gel some offer) it takes wet (or sweat) to activate it. You may experience the same with the Polar, but time will tell.


----------



## jfd986 (Jul 17, 2011)

Well La Bicicletta also offers a 3.5 hour session for more money, not sure how much more, they call it a 3D fit and it involves, among other things, putting the cyclist on a massage table and observing their range of motion.

When I sweat it doesn't chill me, but maybe that's because I have a massive $68 PVC jacket on and, though it's not anywhere near aerodynamic, it's a significant improvement over the $20 rain shell I was previously wearing (silly Target) and it turns my upper body into a furnace.

The key to penny pinching is being willing to do what the other guy won't. In this case, it's scouring the internet looking for every fitter in the area, and gambling on potentially bad fitters. For me, that's La Bicicletta and six other places (and I went for the cheapest one). For you, that's this guy:

IF THE BIKE FITS… | Rick's Bike Repair

Oh, look at that. Basic fitting $30. Huh. It's probably junk anyway, the guy works out of his garage workshop. Still, I wonder if you should check it out anyway...

1130 Greenwood Park Drive, Kingston, ON K7K 7H7, Canada 5.3 km NE
+1 613-449-8437 

Oh, what's that? The phone number and address? Where'd that come from?



You seem like you've already shelled out for a fitting, but just wanted to let you know it's the lowest I could find. It's not an LBS, and he's probably not reputable.

Rick’s Bike Repair | Kingston East News

What's this, an article about him in a local newspaper?

Don't mind me, I'm just enjoying myself. I love finding deals. i LOVE finding deals.

I don't bike IN the snow, I bike NEXT to the snow. The snow falls and they salt the roads, then I take my road bike out on the salted wet road, and it's been iceless so far. I do not ride trails when there's snow on them.

Toes are still freezing though, going for the last clipless attempt tomorrow, with chemical toe warmers, and if that works then I have more on the way. If it doesn't, switching to platforms and doing winter boots.

Allow me to quote those wiser than I. 

"If you are out riding in bad weather, you are a bada ss. Period."


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

jfd986 said:


> IF THE BIKE FITS… | Rick's Bike Repair
> 
> Oh, look at that. Basic fitting $30. Huh. It's probably junk anyway, the guy works out of his garage workshop.


I wouldn't be so sure. If Rick translates his philosophies into practices during his bike fits, they may not be so bad. At $30 for 30 minutes it won't be a pro fit (and he says so), but it may fulfill most recreational riders needs.


----------



## jfd986 (Jul 17, 2011)

Yeah, my sense of humour doesn't translate well over the internet.

I figured he's probably at least decent at this, that's why I included his phone number, address, and an article about him. I think he's worth a shot, especially if love4himies isn't sponsored or national or some manner of professional.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

jfd986 said:


> Yeah, my sense of humour doesn't translate well over the internet.


I picked up on the 'tone' of your post. I was merely offering an opinion... :wink5:


----------



## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

love4himies said:


> Here in Kingston < snip > in Gananoque


Our summer place is just outside Westport. Perth Road is one of my favorite cycling routes.



love4himies said:


> JFD & Bruce: How in the heck do you guys bike in the cold and with all the snow we've gotten?


Maybe you didn't notice the snow in my avatar? 

Studded tires, Lake winter cycling boots, Pearl Izumi AmFib tights, wicking baselayer(s) under a cycling jacket (Endura Gridlock at this time of year), double-gloves, and either a winter beanie or balaclava under the helmet. And of course, acclimation to the cold through the autumn.


----------



## jfd986 (Jul 17, 2011)

I called the shop and they said to bring the saddle in tomorrow. They'll try to fix it (I think they'll fail) and if they can't do anything, then Garneau will either want the saddle or a picture of the saddle to send a replacement. I'm going to ask the shop for a loner saddle in the meantime if I have to send mine in, maybe they'll swing that. I've written down my fit measurements so I'll be okay fitwise if I switch out a saddle.

My new Polar HRM works, just tried it today, it's my old cycling computer that wasn't working in the cold (the wireless LG I bought used off creepslist). And it only just recently stopped working in the cold (-8 celsius and below). That one didn't have an HRM.

I didn't set anything up, so the system put me in whatever zone was automatically programmed, which was 80-160. At 160 it started beeping, so I started backing off and felt not only like I was not out of breath, but also that the bike was going incredibly slow (~16 kph) compared to what I'm used to when I'm pushing and firing on all cylinders and trying to murder myself on the hills. So either this is what base riding means and I need to stop trying to sprint to random checkpoints I've chosen on my route, or the HRM is inaccurate .... which I doubt.

The toe warmers worked for an hour, will have to see how they hold up to longer rides, will try to get the max surface area possible on the bottom of the toes next time. I'll buy boots next winter, I'm not ready for the $200 expense yet.

Now I have to get a spreadsheet out and put a training log together using a re-read of Friel, combined with a thorough read of the Polar manual. I'm going to do both of those things immediately after I stroll over to the time market tomorrow to pick up some fresh weekday hours from the local vendors. They say organic is better, but honestly I can't tell the difference.


----------



## kg4fxg (Jan 7, 2013)

This is very helpful and I hate to troll. I will be getting a fit and new bike soon. Thank you for allowing me to read.

Bill


----------



## jfd986 (Jul 17, 2011)

Oh, I know what's going on here. You can't start your own threads until you have 5 or 10 or some odd number of posts. Troll away. You know what, I'll give you an excuse. Are you looking into new or used? What are your riding goals and top 5 bikes? What have you test rode? What group / frame material ? What area are you in? Maybe we can find you a good and decently-priced fitter. Mention an area and I can almost guarantee anyone from there is going to suggest who they've used around you. It's not trolling if it's mandatory, and I've been there before.


----------



## kg4fxg (Jan 7, 2013)

Yeah, I should post more.

Started real hard on the trainer in April 2012 at 230 pounds. Today I am 148 pounds and 5'11". Oh yeah, one detail is that I am 50!

I love to be one the bike but I work too many hours. I am a CPA. It is a great stress reliever. I would be embarrassed to look at Road Bikes at 230 pounds. Now I look great in anything I wear.

Mostly been working through Spinerval DVD's. Current Bike is a Trek FX 7.9 Carbon Fiber. Trainer Kurt Kinetic.

I need a beginner bike and yes I will post in the beginner forum.

Bikes I like are Trek Madone 5.2, Specialized S-Works Roubaix SL2, Cervelo R5, Colnago. Open to others and looking. I have only rode the Madone. Looking to buy around March April. Much research to do yet. And by then I should be 140 pounds.

Bill


----------



## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

jfd986 said:


> I didn't set anything up, so the system put me in whatever zone was automatically programmed, which was 80-160. At 160 it started beeping, so I started backing off and felt not only like I was not out of breath, but also that the bike was going incredibly slow (~16 kph) compared to what I'm used to when I'm pushing and firing on all cylinders and trying to murder myself on the hills. So either this is what base riding means and I need to stop trying to sprint to random checkpoints I've chosen on my route, or the HRM is inaccurate .... which I doubt.
> 
> The toe warmers worked for an hour, will have to see how they hold up to longer rides, will try to get the max surface area possible on the bottom of the toes next time. I'll buy boots next winter, I'm not ready for the $200 expense yet.


Heart rate monitors need to be calibrated. People's heart rate zones are pretty individual. You'll like the test, though. :wink5:

Joe Friel's Blog: A Quick Guide to Setting Zones

There are some other tests out there too. They should all give results within a couple bpm of each other.

I find I feel like I'm going pretty slowly when I'm riding in zone 2. But not 16 kph slow. Depending on your training hours, mixing in some hills and some tempo intervals can be an effective way to both have a less boring training experience and make up for low volume. For people who have time, though, traditional base training still has its proponents. The patterns that I think are really bad are going out and doing structured high-intensity intervals in the middle of winter (and then burning out) and also just going out way too hard and fading over the course of a ride. This can be really apparent on the track of someone with a power meter. Since so many external factors effect speed with a bicycle, it's hard to draw anything meaningful from that. Which is too bad, power meters are expensive! An equivalent in running would be someone who starts fast and has positive splits, vs. someone who can do a series of matched or even negative splits.

I haven't tried chemical toe warmers, but I use booties when it's cold. They're a lot cheaper than buying winter cycling shoes. I don't like them that much, but I like them a lot better than cold feet.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

kg4fxg said:


> Yeah, I should post more.
> 
> Started real hard on the trainer in April 2012 at 230 pounds. Today I am 148 pounds and 5'11". Oh yeah, one detail is that I am 50!
> 
> ...


You've provided a little more info here, but I responded to your post in this thread:
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/beginners-corner/trek-madone-2-1-a-296843.html


----------



## jfd986 (Jul 17, 2011)

You didn't mention how much riding you plan to do and for what you plan to use the bike (mostly hills, rough city road or paved quiet country road, the occasional dirt, bike paths, how often etc). that usually tends to dictate what you get.

The bike you're riding is valued at 1499 Pounds Sterling and a review off bike radar says "The Trek 7.9FX is the full-carbon, money-no-object option among flat-bar road bikes. It's an expensive, lightweight, super comfortable mile eater." So maybe you're looking for a beginner drop-bar road bike, but I don't think you're any stranger to spinning, cycling, or even fitness in general. I , by comparison, have lost a paltry 18 pounds going from 160 to about 142 from September the end of December. I'm on my way down though, and I'm going to include some strength training and have already begun cleaning up the diet for the next week so I expect a sizeable ROI.

None of the bikes you named sound like beginner bikes. To me, a beginner bike is something you can walk away from when crashed, something cheap and heavy, possibly unattractive, that fits well and rides comfortably. If that's lower-end carbon fine, if that's shimano 105, so be it. But, to pick apart a couple of the bikes you mentioned...

bicyclism blog » Specialized S-Works Roubaix SL2 Review This guy spent 9500 on his Roubaix SL2.

Cervelo R5 VWD 2012 Road Bike | Bicycling Magazine

The option that comes with the SRAM red group is $6700.

To put things into perspective here, the first road bike I bought was $60, and the second road bike I bought was $660. That's the road bike I currently own, and while the frame is a tad big for me, I think it's just fine as a bike that will allow me to "grow into" performance road cycling through thousands of miles on the saddle that will let my body adjust to drop-bar aggressive riding.

When my body has adjusted, I'll go get sized for exact dimensions and then I'll buy a frame that fits me to a tee. At first I was gonna buy a steel frame and build up a commuter, but now I'm wondering why I shouldn't buy a steel frame to build up a commuter as well as an alloy or carbon frame to build up a race bike. Having just thought of that, I would say I'd only venture into a second build if I manage to sell my current bike.

If you don't wanna build a bike, you don't have to. My suggestion, though, is to go with the cheapest thing that 1) Fits you and 2) is comfortable. The difference between a Cervelo R5 and a Specialized Allez Comp. cannot be appreciated by someone who's never ridden road before, heck I've put 1100 k down and everybody on here scoffs at that. I feel that, once you gain a considerable amount of mileage and experience on a road bike, and you can TELL the difference between an entry-level and high-end road bike when riding it, THEN you're justified to upgrade.

And lastly, I don't mean to sound confrontational, but in the interests of staying objective, I wanted to add that you mustn't think I'm trying to scrape the bottom of the barrel here because I don't have the money. I start residency in June (hopefully, I hear in March) and after my 3 years are done, my starting salary will be (you're a CPA, you already know what it'll be). Money will not change my opinion on bike buying, which is based on sound advice cultivated from years of experience available on this forum. Whether or not money changes me in general, we shall see. I don't plan on it.

I hope some of this helps.


----------



## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

People buy bikes based on what they have to spend on them. kg4 started last spring. If he can afford one of the bikes in his list, why not? It's not like it's his first, even.

FWIW, at 5'8" if I never see 140 lb again, I'm okay with it. I was fast but not terribly healthy at 136. (And probably not fast on straightaways, although people hated me on climbs.) I would like to see 145 again, however.


----------



## jfd986 (Jul 17, 2011)

AndrwSwitch said:


> People buy bikes based on what they have to spend on them. kg4 started last spring. If he can afford one of the bikes in his list, why not? It's not like it's his first, even.
> 
> FWIW, at 5'8" if I never see 140 lb again, I'm okay with it. I was fast but not terribly healthy at 136. (And probably not fast on straightaways, although people hated me on climbs.) I would like to see 145 again, however.


I thought there was a difference between flat bar riding and road riding that required acclimation of certain muscle groups. I've been riding every summer since I was 16 but I've never been on a road bike until last year, it was like night and day.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Joe Friel's Blog: A Quick Guide to Setting Zones


IMO Friel is one of the best, taking a very common sense approach to training. Tons of good info at that link. Answers many of the OP's questions re: HR and base training - along with other valuable/ related info.


----------



## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

jfd986 said:


> I thought there was a difference between flat bar riding and road riding that required acclimation of certain muscle groups. I've been riding every summer since I was 16 but I've never been on a road bike until last year, it was like night and day.


With the right underlying frame size and geometry, I think people are usually fine just adjusting the bike, absent a really, really major change. kg4's loss of 90 lb might be major enough to screw up a previous bike size, but he shouldn't be losing much more weight at this point.

I could see a carbon steer tube or integrated seat post being a bad idea. But then, I think that integrated seat posts are a bad idea for anyone who pays for his own bike.

As far as different muscle groups - if I set up my mountain bike and my road bikes to be ridden athletically (and I do) there's a pretty significant difference in the position of my shoulder, and I sprint a little bit differently, but that's about it. I think there's more difference in riding position on a bike set up to be ridden with continous pedaling vs. coasting a lot than in riding position on a flat bar and drop bar bike set up to be ridden the same way. So to be fair, I do set up my mountain bike with a more upright position than my 'A' road bike or my track bike. But it's about the same as my 'cross bike and lower than my commuter.

It can be hard to come from one kind of bike and size the other one correctly. But I think that if kg4 doesn't go into this shopping trip with his Dad's incorrect (even at the time) sizing approach and gets good before-sale support, he should be fine. Basically, if he follows the advice everybody gets here - ride a bunch of bikes, try some sizes, buy his favorite. (So kg4, ride them all, try some sizes, and buy your favorite.) When I finally did it that way, I certainly did a lot better!


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

jfd986 said:


> I thought there was a difference between flat bar riding and road riding that required acclimation of certain muscle groups. I've been riding every summer since I was 16 but I've never been on a road bike until last year, it was like night and day.


FWIW I won't say I outright disagree with Andrew's response, but I do think there are enough threads here re: acclimation to road riding from both mtn bikers as well as previous hybrid riders to affirm your points. 

Geo differences aside, both riding positions and styles do vary 'some', with (at least IME) the biggest difference being noobs getting accustomed to near constant spinning - at a higher cadence. 

That said, there are also some obvious similarities, so (as stated) no outright disagreement with either mindset.


----------



## kg4fxg (Jan 7, 2013)

Thanks all for the wonderful advice. I really need to stick to the beginners forum as my knowledge is that beginner. Yes, I have rode lots of the Trek 7.9 but Road Bikes are new to me. Yes, the 7.9 is a Road Bike with straight bars.

I really need more hand positions but as the weight came off I don't have as much of a problem with my hands falling asleep.

And as JFD986 said I don't need to spend a fortune on the first bike. What I take away is visit several shops and pay for a good bike fit. Right there I might learn something well worth the money. Good luck with Residency You should be very proud of your accomplishments of which I respect very much.

And down the road in a few years and more experience I will better know if that $12K bike is for me and why. 

I actually learn more here than the magazines. Yes, not everyone will agree but just reading the posts plants seeds and questions. I appreciate everyone's being friendly and civil. I was reluctant to post at first but hate to troll. At my age I have never even texted nor do I have an iPhone.

Thanks
Bill


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

kg4fxg said:


> Thanks all for the wonderful advice. I really need to stick to the beginners forum as my knowledge is that beginner. Yes, I have rode lots of the Trek 7.9 but Road Bikes are new to me. Yes, the 7.9 is a Road Bike with straight bars.
> 
> I really need more hand positions but as the weight came off I don't have as much of a problem with my hands falling asleep.
> 
> ...


You're picking up on some key points. Drop bar (road) bikes _are_ different enough from your hybrid that you'll gain some knowledge visiting some reputable shops, discussing your cycling experiences, intended uses/ goals, fitness/ flexibility and (of course) price range and see what the have to offer. 

The better shops take the time to explain the differences between race and relaxed geo (we can assist here as well), emphasize the importance of both fit and test rides and (in general) make the buying experience a pleasant one. They'll also be there for you post-purchase, for tweaks to fit, advice and warranty support (if needed).

As I and others have mentioned (and you noted), staying at the lower end of your price range for this first bike has its advantages. And as you grow with the sport, you can always use a good quality entry level bike as a trainer/ rain bike, so it's not a lost investment.


----------



## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

kg4fxg said:


> Today I am 148 pounds and 5'11". Oh yeah, one detail is that I am 50!


173 lbs., 5'-10" and 56 years here. Returned to cycling at age 49.

I skipped directly from hybrid to roadie after 9 months. Up until this past summer, my fit changed every year as my strength and flexibility improved.


----------



## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

jfd986 said:


> Well La Bicicletta also offers a 3.5 hour session for more money, not sure how much more, they call it a 3D fit and it involves, among other things, putting the cyclist on a massage table and observing their range of motion.
> 
> When I sweat it doesn't chill me, but maybe that's because I have a massive $68 PVC jacket on and, though it's not anywhere near aerodynamic, it's a significant improvement over the $20 rain shell I was previously wearing (silly Target) and it turns my upper body into a furnace.
> 
> ...


OK, I guess I'm a wimpy biker . No biking for me below 0 or after the first snowfall after they've dropped all that sand & salt. 

Thanks for that "find", I LOVE great deals too! I may give him a call.


----------



## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

jfd986 said:


> Yeah, my sense of humour doesn't translate well over the internet.
> 
> I figured he's probably at least decent at this, that's why I included his phone number, address, and an article about him. I think he's worth a shot, especially if love4himies isn't sponsored or national or some manner of professional.


In my dreams I'm a pro, but in reality I'm a 50 year old female just trying to stay in shape doing what I love to do.


----------



## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

brucew said:


> Our summer place is just outside Westport. Perth Road is one of my favorite cycling routes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We boat up the Rideau to Westport every summer. LOVE that little town. I've never biked in that area, our boat is too small to carry it. 

I can jog in any weather short of freezing rain, but I'm a fair weather biker.


----------



## AlleganyBicycleShop (Dec 21, 2012)

When you got your fit did he do a physical assessment? That is the first thing we do. Range of motion, flexibility, injuries, LLD, etc are crucial to a proper bike fit. Here at my shop in Western Ny we offer different levels of paid fits but they start with a physical assessment. 

A lot of times I can just see someone ride and notice what is generally wrong right away, but I have been doing fits for quite a few years now. Even with that I can't be 100% certain without a physical assessment.


----------



## kg4fxg (Jan 7, 2013)

Thank you for the information. I have not received a bike fit yet. I will ask about that and the charge. I don't mind paying for it.

I don't want some sales clerk to say stand over this Madone 5.2, oh yeah that is your size and out the door I go.

Not looking to buy until maybe March/April. Have lots of research to do as well as hear sales pitches.

I just want to try a Road Bike. I don't dislike the FX 7.9 but not a huge fan of straight handle bars. At 50 and 148 pounds it is mostly for enjoyment. I do workout with the FX on the trainer to Spinervals DVD. Purpose and plan with a training goal. Usually every other day - really.

And maybe a lower end Madone would be fine? I do like quality components. I live in Duluth, GA. If anyone has recommendations for bike shops here I am all ears. Also open to other brands. Beginner, so I should be able to get a starter bike for say under or at $4K? 

Thanks again 
Bill


----------



## AlleganyBicycleShop (Dec 21, 2012)

There are some great bikes at very nice prices. The Giant Defy composite is under $2k and a very comfortable ride. Besides the Giant and Trek the Cannondale synapses, specialized Roubaix and a few others would be worth checking out. I like to ride a few bikes and take notes about the pros and cons when researching a bikes. Keep us updated.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

kg4fxg said:


> And maybe a lower end Madone would be fine? I do like quality components. I live in Duluth, GA. If anyone has recommendations for bike shops here I am all ears. Also open to other brands. Beginner, so *I should be able to get a starter bike for say under or at $4K?*
> 
> Thanks again
> Bill


You could cut that budget down to 30% (~$1,200) and still get a perfectly fine entry level bike. And ~45% ($1,800) gets you a _really_ nice bike.

My advice is to visit some LBS's, discuss your intended uses/ goals, cycling experiences, your price range (see above) and see what they recommend. Ride as many as you can, both relaxed and race geo out on the roads to get a feel for the fit, ride and handling. The bike that fits and feels the best, wins.

BTW, kudos to AlleganyBicycleShop and their shops fit process, but don't expect such a comprehensive standard fitting at most shops. 

Generally speaking, measurements aren't always taken nor is flexibility tested, but that doesn't mean that the end result doesn't suite most recreational riders needs. 

Also, as you become accustomed to drop bar bikes and the more forward position, fitness/ flexibility improves and fit evolves, so no matter who does the initial fitting or how it's done, you're likely to need tweaks along the way.


----------



## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

kg4fxg said:


> Thank you for the information. I have not received a bike fit yet. I will ask about that and the charge. I don't mind paying for it.
> 
> I don't want some sales clerk to say stand over this Madone 5.2, oh yeah that is your size and out the door I go.
> 
> ...


The best research you can do is go out and get a bike and start riding it. Of course, you want to do as well as you can to start with. But I think we all experience a little "Mission creep" in our riding, discover new kinds of riding, find out that kinds of riding we thought we wanted to do aren't really attractive, whatever.

So, why wait?

As far as prices are concerned, you can spend whatever you feel like in the range of $300 to $12000 and get a nice bike. People's budgets are all about their spending power, goals and priorities. That's such a big range as to be relatively useless. I think I can make a couple of assumptions about you. You're pretty well-funded. Or you wouldn't be thinking about a $4000 road bike. You're thinking about a new road bike, locally, as opposed to used or hunting it up on the 'net. You'd like some help from the shop in getting the right size.

From one of the brands I know a little better, (Felt Z85) you can get an aluminum frame/carbon fork bike with a Shimano 105 drivetrain for $1350. Most of the drivetrain should last a long time, the rims are nice, the finishing touches on the bike are nice. The parts that aren't so good... you usually get hosed on on more expensive bikes too. So I don't think you'd be missing much.

Of course as you spend more, you get into lighter and higher-status parts. In some instances, you get into higher performance parts, although IMHO these only have an effect on achievement of goals if you're riding in competition and you're already contesting sprints and primes.

If you decide you want a lighter bike just for the sake of, or higher-status parts for the same reason or to impress your friends or as a symbol of your commitment or a reward for yourself or whatever, that's fine. It does bother me a bit when people think they _need_ that stuff, but it's not like you need anybody's permission to want it. It also bothers me a bit to imagine someone waiting an extra few months or years to get a road bike because they feel they need to have all that stuff on it. There was a thread about that a few months ago. Kinda sad. I'd rather ride around on some chewed up thing from the mid '90s than wait, if that's the choice.

I like the trend toward "endurance" road bikes. It's a real pain in the butt to get decent fenders or racks onto a lot of current-model bikes sold to, let's be honest, recreational riders because they're "race" models and have tight clearances everywhere and make no allowance for some of these accessories. I don't think the actual difference in riding is particularly significant unless you're actually racing; even then, one of my teammates did fine on his 'cross bike for his first road season. But one of them lets you set it up for more comfortable riding in crappy weather or for credit card tours or very long self-supported rides.

EDIT: Oops, I had a point. I wanted to put a number on what a beginner bike might really mean. You can buy whatever you want, of course, and nobody says you need to start with a beginner bike. But this sport would really not be growing if it really took a $4000 piece of hardware.


----------



## keppler (May 25, 2007)

I had a very similar experience as jfd986 with a bike fitting with Heath. La Bic is the first store I got my fitting back in 2006 and I bought my first bike from them.

I noticed some issues with soreness/pain over the past year or so and felt it was time for a re-fit. I thought I would get the clean sheet treatment on the adjustable fit bike, instead Heath said bring your bike to be re-fit on.

I got on the bike to pedal and right away he said the seat's too far back. He moved it and it felt better, then we did a seat fit on the gel pad and discovered my sit bones need a wider seat, my current one was too narrow. 

I ended up buying a new seat, the seat post was switched to a zero setback one, the seat was moved forward more, and the stem was flipped up (although he said a 1 size shorter stem would be better). My first ride on that re-fit bike was like gaining free horespower; everything felt and moved better, speeds were quicker to build up, and finally the seat fit right. 

But I hated the flipped up stem look, so put it back. I also wondered if by moving the seat that far foward on a zero setback post, was I really in the optimum position over the crank anymore? Or was I just moved around to fit the current frame, which it seems now has a top tube that's a bit long for me?

What size would my frame be now if I had the right sized stem in the more horizontal position? The headtube would need to be taller, I could ditch the spacers I use now, the bars could be closer, the top tube would be shorter, the seat positioned better, etc.

And having ridden on various roads, all of which are getting worse each year, the thought of another carbon expensive bike didn't appeal to me. 

So now I'm going in for a clean sheet bike fit as I'm going to get a custom steel frame. I find carbon just doesn't appeal to me like it once did, nor the light weight of it, I prefer something a little more substantial to ride on, that can handle my weight (200lbs) and can last me for many years.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

keppler said:


> I had a very similar experience as jfd986 with a bike fitting with Heath. La Bic is the first store I got my fitting back in 2006 and I bought my first bike from them.
> 
> I noticed some issues with soreness/pain over the past year or so and felt it was time for a re-fit. I thought I would get the clean sheet treatment on the adjustable fit bike, instead Heath said bring your bike to be re-fit on.
> 
> ...


I'm assuming your questions are (for the most part), rhetorical, but I will say that from what you've offered, the fitter made due fitting you to a bike sized too large for you. The giveaway (to me) was the use of a zero setback post. 

As far as where your saddle is in relation to KOPS, we can only assume the post was employed to GET you to that optimal position. But that doesn't mean it's literally KOPS. For most of us, that's a starting point, adjusting fore/ aft 'some' from there according to our anatomy/ riding style.

Good luck with the fitting and custom frame. As long as you work with a knowledgeable fitter/ builder, I can think of no better way to go, budget allowing.


----------



## keppler (May 25, 2007)

PJ352 said:


> I'm assuming your questions are (for the most part), rhetorical, but I will say that from what you've offered, the fitter made due fitting you to a bike sized too large for you. The giveaway (to me) was the use of a zero setback post.
> 
> As far as where your saddle is in relation to KOPS, we can only assume the post was employed to GET you to that optimal position. But that doesn't mean it's literally KOPS. For most of us, that's a starting point, adjusting fore/ aft 'some' from there according to our anatomy/ riding style.
> 
> Good luck with the fitting and custom frame. As long as you work with a knowledgeable fitter/ builder, I can think of no better way to go, budget allowing.


It could be the frame was sized a bit big, or just that at the time of my first fit and bike I didnt' have the flexability I do now after years of riding. I've seen some new people I've introduced to riding over the years and they're quite 'stiff' on the bike.

I find now I can get 'small' and down very low in the drops, whereas before I could never attempt that, or for more than a minute. I just seem to know where I want the bars to be and how I position myself on the bike, whereas before I didn't even notice it, I just rode the bike the same way, and eventually the aches and pains came out over time.

But with the knowledge and experience I have now, it's more imperative I get the right numbers before a new steel frame is built.


----------



## keppler (May 25, 2007)

Went for a new fitting, frame size is down 1.5 cm top tube and 1 cm seat tube. Flexibility is much improved from years of riding, quads/hamstrings, lower back, and I can be down in the drops longer and more comfortably. I sent them to the steel frame builder and we're finalizing the frame design.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

keppler said:


> Went for a new fitting, frame size is down 1.5 cm top tube and 1 cm seat tube. Flexibility is much improved from years of riding, quads/hamstrings, lower back, and I can be down in the drops longer and more comfortably. I sent them to the steel frame builder and we're finalizing the frame design.


Those are huge changes in terms of bike fit, but some (I think) can be attributed to the fact that your current frame is too large for you. 

Good luck with the new frame. Always exciting going through the custom build process. I'd be interested in reading how it progresses. Maybe consider starting a thread on the topic.


----------

