# Downtown LA ride!



## JoeDaddio (Sep 3, 2005)

Here's the thread from the lounge:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=123129

Should be good times!




joe


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## roadfix (Jun 20, 2006)

High noon at Union Station. I'll be there.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

And we're gonna eat and take pics.


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## Hollywood (Jan 16, 2003)

roadfix said:


> High noon at Union Station. I'll be there.


where is this exactly? Is there parking? Is it a safe area? We'll be done before dark, right? I'm interested but new to the downtown "scene".


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

damn you all...i wanna go.....


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## roadfix (Jun 20, 2006)

Hollywood said:


> where is this exactly? Is there parking? Is it a safe area? We'll be done before dark, right? I'm interested but new to the downtown "scene".


I think this ride is much safer than the Pho Ride that Mary's putting together that day.


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## JoeDaddio (Sep 3, 2005)

Dave Hickey said:


> damn you all...i wanna go.....



Fly out, Hickey. This time we'll actually get to talk!

Maybe not the LA ride... but I do think that you should find some kind of business reason to fly up to Nor. Cal. around April 5th 





joe


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## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

roadfix said:


> I think this ride is much safer than the Pho Ride that Mary's putting together that day.


Dude, they have disclaimers on ride-postings??? Bike Forums is the lameness.


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## roadfix (Jun 20, 2006)

DrRoebuck said:


> Dude, they have disclaimers on ride-postings??? Bike Forums is the lameness.


Ask LolaLeatherHips, it's her ride...


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## thomson (Jul 23, 2007)

DrRoebuck said:


> Dude, they have disclaimers on ride-postings??? Bike Forums is the lameness.


There has been some research done in this area. One member bought , read, and understood a book specifically on this subject area. Additionally, lawyers were consulted. Bottom line, if you organize a ride (whether a fee is charged or not), there may be some level of responsibility. The more you organize, the more responsibility there seems to be. As an example, if you provide a route slip, there may be some inference the route is free from debris, there are adequate bicycle lanes, traffic is conducive to bicycling, etc. The kicker here is these items are not necessarily decided by rational people, they may be decided by a jury. 

An example sprung this whole thing. There was an organized ride published that had a fantastic turnout. A few days after the ride, it was brought to the organizer’s attention via a series of private messages, that a rider crashed and was ignored by the ride organizer and various helpers. Further research revealed that this rider: 

Never indicated she was going to attend
Showed up at the ride start after everybody left
While passing people, never indicated she was part of the ride
Was asked by a few people after she crashed if she was OK, she indicated she was
I talked with the woman who crashed; she is quite experienced and was just out for a ride. She never came close to any indication that she held anyone else responsible for her crash. She arranged to get a ride home and she is now 100%. But, the fact remained that a person that never even talked with this woman before making her allegations, suggested a level of responsibility by the organizer. Realizing that one or more people like this could sit on a jury got some to take this a bit more seriously. 


A fictitious example, suppose someone showed up for the camera ride sporting the latest whiz-bang camera. Even shows it to some of the people and they all say, wow what a great camera. While riding, this rider attempts to take a picture and crashes. Does the organizer have any responsibility? The answer is no one knows until it goes in front of a jury. After all, the organizer inferred that taking pictures while riding is safe. The organizer even saw the camera ahead of time and give his (implied) endorsement. The organizer chose the route that presumably was safe for picture taking. No one reading this would ever dream of the organizer having any responsibility in this. But that is not who comprises the jury. 

Lawyers do not agree on the level of responsibility. They say the ultimate determination is in a court of law. 

There is a distinction made between a participant and an organizer. Co-participants have no responsibility in the above examples. Organizers _may_.

I personally will not organize a ride. I feel I have too much to risk. I think it is wonderful that people do. 

A disclaimer _probably _will relieve the responsibility. 

So, while you may think it is lame, I also think it is lame that we live in a society that is veering away from people taking responsibility for their own actions. As long as this is the case, no amount of disclaimers are lame.


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## Hollywood (Jan 16, 2003)

Joe Daddio *arranged* yesterday's ride. At one stop I paid $11 for a weak margarita. I hold him responsible.

I guess thats why I prefer loosely-organized rides ala L.A.'s Midnight Ridazz. Some rides have 1000+ riders and no one individual is really leading it. If you wreck, there's no one to hold responsible. You just probably need keener skills.


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## thomson (Jul 23, 2007)

Hollywood said:


> Joe Daddio *arranged* yesterday's ride. At one stop I paid $11 for a weak margarita. I hold him responsible.
> 
> I guess thats why I prefer loosely-organized rides ala L.A.'s Midnight Ridazz. Some rides have 1000+ riders and no one individual is really leading it. If you wreck, there's no one to hold responsible. You just probably need keener skills.


I agree with preferring the loosely-organized rides. But for those that organzie rides with route sheets and all, a disclaimer may just be necessary. Sad but true. 

Cheers


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