# Motobecane Le ChampionTi, odd frame sizing?



## chas0039 (Jun 26, 2007)

I was wondering if anyone has one of these yet and can confirm that the frame sizing is odd. All the other Mercier/Motobecane frame sizes I look at are consistent but these Ti frames seem much larger than normal. As an example, the 56cm frame shows a 572mm top tube. This is the size I would expect on a 58cm bike. 

Thanks guys.


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## Oversane (Mar 31, 2007)

Maybe you can use that geo info to track down the manufacturer of the frames. In fact, that info might be found on this forum somewhere. 

As an example, one of the Moto carbon frames comes from Pedal Force. Obviously the Kestrel comes from Kestrel. 

Bike's Direct's TI frame probably comes from someone else too, though I don't know this for sure. If you could track down the actual maker of BD's TI frame, then that might give you a better understanding of why the geometry is the way it is.


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## haagar (Apr 2, 2006)

I ordered a 53cm Le Champion Ti yesterday.

One of the main reasons I wasn't afraid to buy it was because the geometry is almost exactly the same as my 53cm IRO Jamie Roy.

Bike frames for many different makes are often built by the same manufacturer. They just build them to that manufacturers specs.


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## JohnJohn301 (May 12, 2008)

Agreed! I spent most of the day yesterday looking at these frames and comparing them to many others. The sizing is odd - Being as tall as they are, I'm having a hard time pulling the trigger on one of these.

My ideal frame height is right in between the 56cm and 59cm frames. I need the TT of the 59cm but that leaves almost nothing for standover clearance for me. The 56cm would have about the same standover clearance as my mountain bike.


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## 20sMotoSpirit (May 27, 2007)

The geometry is similar to the newer Trek 2.1 2.3 series road bikes with a sloping top tube. If you run a 56cm standard geometry... its a 53 with a sloping top tube... plus to the person that needs a 59cmTT you can just adjust that with the a longer stem... 100-130mm will do just fine.


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## JohnJohn301 (May 12, 2008)

20sMotoSpirit said:


> The geometry is similar to the newer Trek 2.1 2.3 series road bikes with a sloping top tube. If you run a 56cm standard geometry... its a 53 with a sloping top tube... plus to the person that needs a 59cmTT you can just adjust that with the a longer stem... 100-130mm will do just fine.



Yeah, I'm not getting that from looking at the Trek 2.1 / 2.3 geometry. You have to go all the way to their XL-64cm to get a standover that is just barely taller than the 83.8cm of the 59cm Ti Champion SL. 

For me, to buy the 59 cm, I’d have to go up just one cm taller than I’d like. It just happens to be that one cm past the “high water mark” that I already know works for me. The 56 cm would mean a drop of 2.3cm below the frame size I already know works well for me – and I’d have to make up 12mm on the TT. 

Don’t get me wrong – I’ve spent two days measuring, comparing, evaluating and looking for a way to make this work. This is just one of those times when dropping $2k on a Internet purchase is a little harder than I prefer. 

In the end, I may pull the trigger and go for it. But if I do, you can bet that until I throw a leg over, I’ll have no peace.


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## 20sMotoSpirit (May 27, 2007)

No need to explain... you should search for my posts about the Moto LSL its took me 8 weeks of chatting before I decided to pull the trigger.

In my personal opinion on frame size.. TT is the main length... seat height can be adjusted

I would get the 56cm its a better fit from what you are saying... making up for sizing in a stem adjustment and a seat adjustment is nothing... I had a 58 Sprint and the only way it would work on me if I had the Stem flipped to the relaxed position and even then it hurt my torso in the long sprints.

Really, don't worry about it too much -


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## JohnJohn301 (May 12, 2008)

20sMoto
I think you have a good point about the sloping top tube. If this is the case it explains a lot about these frames. 
I found a pretty good example of this on the MOOTS site.

I e-mailed BD asking for a confirmation - 
Regards- 
J


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## chas0039 (Jun 26, 2007)

I saw a the same problem with a Fuji that was one of the first I saw with the sloping top tube; it is starting to make sense as the drop in the TT would result in a shorter "frame size" if you measure up to the TT as a convention frame would do, especially when the top tube measurement _does not_ slope. Once I figured that out it seems to be logical. The goofy part is that they call these compact frames when actually they are quite a bit larger if you compare frame to frame.

Thanks for the input. Nice to know it is odd for someone else. Now if I can just get over the horror stories I seem to find on cracked Ti frames and external BBs from Motobecane where they forgot to lube them. These things can happen to anyone, but I would hate to spend so much on a new set of problems I don't need. But I sure like the concept of a "forever frame".


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## JohnJohn301 (May 12, 2008)

Chas - 
Agreed - As 20sMoto pointed out, this frame has a sloping toptube and explains why just using the geometry chart, nothing was making any sense. (Admittedly, I am new to compact frame geometry) 

Here's an interesting question however - The BD web site doesn't mention "sloping top tube" or "compact" frame to tip you to the fact the sizing should be adjusted accordingly. 

The real confusion comes from using the seat tube length in the geometry without including an "effective" frame size along with it. Without anything to suggest otherwise the seat tube length is normally the frame size (except on a compact frame) 

Even the reply that I received from BD today asking specific questions (so as not to get pointed back to the generic geometry chart for the 10th time) about this frame, if it was a "compact" and if that should effect the sizing.... blah, blah, blah - received the most frustrating, generic "bicycle size is a matter of personal preference" response! 

If I was buying shoes, do you think there might be any value in knowing that the shoe I'm trying on only come in euro sizing???? WTF!

In any case - I generally think well of BikesDirect but have to admit, this past week has been full of frustration trying to get what has turned out to be some pretty basic information to explain something that was not terribly obvious (at least to me). Something that is all the more important selling over the Internet, I'd think. 

This is probably a good example of the kind of thing that gets BD into trouble. 

Are there issues with the Ti frames? I have not seen these stories. Would be interested in reading those. 
Let me know if you decide to get one of these - BTW - what's your height/weight and what size would you be buying, if one of these?


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## Lifelover (Jul 8, 2004)

One of you guys should check out the Russian made "Gary V Titanio" available at GVHbikes.com.

They have a 55 and a 57 on hand and will sell it complete with Sram Rival for $1500.


If you call or email it will be answered by the owner. It may or may not suit you needs but it's worth a look.

Good Luck!


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## chas0039 (Jun 26, 2007)

JohnJohn301 said:


> Let me know if you decide to get one of these - BTW - what's your height/weight and what size would you be buying, if one of these?


I am 6 foot 2, 32 inseam, and 185 lbs. I currently have a 58cm Mercier Corvus steel I got from BD last year and it is a pretty good fit, even though I like a taller frame. It looks like the TI frame would be almost an equal match with the 56cm frame size. The stories I read were here in some of the forums but I can't recall the exact location. The external hub problem was not a TI bike but was a AL bike from BD. The crack was on a Lightspeed about a year old.


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## chas0039 (Jun 26, 2007)

Lifelover said:


> One of you guys should check out the Russian made "Gary V Titanio" available at GVHbikes.com.
> 
> They have a 55 and a 57 on hand and will sell it complete with Sram Rival for $1500.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip. Looks interesting, but not in red. Too bad they don't seem to like black frames.


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## JohnJohn301 (May 12, 2008)

If you call or email it will be answered by the owner. It may or may not suit you needs but it's worth a look.

Good Luck![/QUOTE]

They are indeed worth a peek - that color is leaning a little to far toward the pink side of red for me however. I like the idea of an answer from THE owner. Meaningful information seems to be the real precious metal, these days. 

Thanks for look'n out.


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