# Sram Red 11 speed yaw front derailleur



## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

Just wondering what the difference is between the 10 and 11 speed yaw front derailleur? I'm sure the cage is narrower on the 11 speed. I wanted to order the 10 speed but the supplier I deal with only has the 11 speed in stock. 10 speed won't be in stock until later in the month.

Would the 11 speed work fine with my red 10 speed components?


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## AJ88V (Nov 14, 2012)

No problem.

The Force 11 Yaw derailleur is way cheaper ($57 on Amazon) and it's only 10 grams heavier than the Red.


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

AJ88V said:


> No problem.
> 
> The Force 11 Yaw derailleur is way cheaper ($57 on Amazon) and it's only 10 grams heavier than the Red.


Thanks for the info. Any idea what the difference is between the 10 speed and 11 speed?


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## AJ88V (Nov 14, 2012)

No differences between the 10 and 11 that I can discern. (replaced a Rival 10 FD with a Force Yaw 11)


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

The only difference appears to be that the 11 speed cage is narrower. I'm wondering if I used it on 10 speed would I potentially get chain rub with the cage being narrower or would the yaw feature take that out of play? On the other hand, would I get better shifting with a narrower cage?


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## vetboy (Oct 11, 2005)

redondoaveb said:


> The only difference appears to be that the 11 speed cage is narrower. I'm wondering if I used it on 10 speed would I potentially get chain rub with the cage being narrower or would the yaw feature take that out of play? On the other hand, would I get better shifting with a narrower cage?


How do you know that the cage is narrower? Are you guessing or have you compared both in your hands.


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

vetboy said:


> How do you know that the cage is narrower? Are you guessing or have you compared both in your hands.


Actually, I read it on Competitive Cyclist website (don't know if they're right). Other than that, I just assumed it was. Either way, I'm going to try it anyway. :thumbsup:


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## chiasticon (Aug 23, 2011)

FYI: i used this thread as proof that this would work, before trying it for myself. there's another thread on RBR too, showing a photo of their setup and stating that it indeed will work. well, it didn't for me.

the problem i was having was that i could get the shifting to work great between little and big rings and i could access all 10 rear cogs in the little ring with no derailleur rub (though the chain would rub the big ring when in little/little). when i shifted to the big ring, however, i could never get it perfect. if i set the limit screw accordingly so that i would get no rub in big/little, i'd either risk throwing the chain or the FD cage would rub against my crank arms. no amount of fiddling with the derailleur angle/height would solve this. i eventually just went back to my ultegra FD (works great; i have a force 10 FD on another bike that's perfect but this bike has never worked well with sram FD's).

i have three observations of why i may have a different experience than others:
1) my rear wheel has an 11 speed CK freehub with a spacer on the inside; maybe this is shifting the big ring/little cog combo outboard enough to cause this FD rub; it's worth noting that CK 11 speed hubs don't cause the wheels to have a different dish than 10 speed ones, they are just a mm or two wider (so for 11 speed, the extra cog is on the outside, effectively)
2) i'm using a force crankset (50/36) and the poster on the other thread was using rotor; maybe he would've gotten rub against the crank arm and FD cage if he was using force?
3) i'm using a shimano band clamp instead of a sram one (or an actual braze-on; my frame doesn't have one); it was cheaper and the wait to get it was shorter so i thought i'd try it; i later searched and found that others have said (for 10 speed red yaw) that they had the best luck with sram band-clamps.

for completeness, the rest of my drivetrain is as follows
force 2011 shifters
sram 1091r chain
force crankset with 50/36 (force) chainrings
sram 1071 cassette (11-25)
chris king 11 speed freehub


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## j.king (Mar 23, 2005)

@Chiasticon - The only thing I can think of is that since you have a 50t ring that your fd is mounted lower than mine. I'm using a 52t so the fd is a little higher but even if I put it lower I think I'd still have plenty of room. I have about 3-4mm between the fd cage and crank arm now.

Any chance you are using a BB30 crank?


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

Success! Got my 11 speed FD installed and all is well. Set up was tricky. A lot of trial and error. No chain rub on small/small. A little bit on big/big but I can trim that out. Precise shifting especially going from the small to big ring. 

The worst part was one of my bottle cage bosses was in the way of my clamp on mount. The bolt was corroded in the boss. Took me about a half hour and a pair on vise grips to get the damn bolt out. :mad2:

2011 shifters
2011 rear derailleur
2011 Red compact crank w/ Praxis rings
2013 Red front derailleur
KMC X10 SL chain


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## j.king (Mar 23, 2005)

Awesome!

Pictures??


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## chiasticon (Aug 23, 2011)

j.king said:


> Any chance you are using a BB30 crank?


yep. NAILED IT. first try :thumbsup:

q-factor is less with BB30 so that's prolly the problem.


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

j.king said:


> Awesome!
> 
> Pictures??


I'd like to post pictures but it's not letting me add attachments. I'm not sure why, never had this problem before.


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## j.king (Mar 23, 2005)

I had the same problem...I thought it was me or my computer. I hope they fix it.


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## j.king (Mar 23, 2005)

chiasticon said:


> yep. NAILED IT. first try :thumbsup:
> 
> q-factor is less with BB30 so that's prolly the problem.


Bummer...wel at least you know what the issue is now. I was using a shimano fd with my force shifters as well and it worked great but for me it rubbed on the last three gears on the cassette when in the little ring. That's what made me want to try the yaw fd.


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## chiasticon (Aug 23, 2011)

j.king said:


> Bummer...wel at least you know what the issue is now. I was using a shimano fd with my force shifters as well and it worked great but for me it rubbed on the last three gears on the cassette when in the little ring. That's what made me want to try the yaw fd.


i got sick of the same issue you described above when using an ultegra FD so on a rainy day i thought i'd give it another shot, with ample patience (beer) and a willingness to persevere until failure is the only option. i'm happy to report that i did eventually get it working :thumbsup:

it was difficult, and there's probably only about .5mm of clearance between the FD's outer cage and the inside of the crank arm. but it works, and shifts beautifully with only minimal rubbing of the chain against the inside of the large chainring when in little/little. i may try throwing a plastic spacer or two on the drive side of the crankset the next time i need to clean/regrease it, just so see if i can get more clearance between crank arm and FD. but it seems that's largely a mental thing as i've not seen/felt any rubbing between the two so far.


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## j.king (Mar 23, 2005)

Awesome! Glad you got it to work! Pictures??


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## AJ88V (Nov 14, 2012)

redondoaveb said:


> Success! Got my 11 speed FD installed and all is well. Set up was tricky. A lot of trial and error. No chain rub on small/small. A little bit on big/big but I can trim that out. Precise shifting especially going from the small to big ring.


I too found the Force Yaw 22 FD a little finicky to set up on my 10 speed setup. Thought I had it perfect, but then decided I had to do just that one little last adjustment because the cage was a tiny bit high, cable tension wasn't right and then, wahhh, back to step one. Once you change the setting of the small chainring screw, the marks on the front for chain alignment are no longer valid.

SRAM has a video on YouTube that is essential viewing to set up the Yaw derailleur. There are two versions. You want the later/revised video. And if you screw up like I did, watch the video posted by Glory Cycles with the penny trick. Works like a charm. The Yaw FD is actually quite easy to set up. You just have to do it a couple times. LOL!

*I measured the inner dimension of the cage for the Force22 Yaw FD and it absolutely is smaller than the ID of the cage on my Rival 10 speed FD.* Forget the dimensions, but it is smaller. I do have the tiniest bit of scrape when in the big/big combo. Nothing that won't go away with the "trim" click on the Force front shifter, but that defeats the purpose of the Yaw derailleur. 

My plan is to install an 11-speed chain (probably Shimano Dura Ace or 105, according to tests I have read). The 11 speed chain is slightly narrower in outside dimension. It's also more flexible in twist, which some reviewers say makes it quieter and shift better. 

Anyway, completely happy with the Force 22 Yaw FD. Half the price of the Red 22 and only 10 grams heavier. Shifts like a dream compared to my original FD. Huge improvement!


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## chiasticon (Aug 23, 2011)

here you go!


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## damian75 (Oct 26, 2013)

One quick ? for you guys, what shifters are you using with the force 22 FD, I currently have the Red 10 speed shifters and not sure it is worth the expense if I need to replace the shifters as well. I know I would need to replace them to go to a full 22 gear setup but if all I am doing is replacing the FD. Thanks


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

damian75 said:


> One quick ? for you guys, what shifters are you using with the force 22 FD, I currently have the Red 10 speed shifters and not sure it is worth the expense if I need to replace the shifters as well. I know I would need to replace them to go to a full 22 gear setup but if all I am doing is replacing the FD. Thanks


This will tell you everything you need to know about Sram backwards compatibility, but to answer your question, your current shifters will work fine.
It works! We test SRAM Red backwards compatibility - VeloNews.com


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## j.king (Mar 23, 2005)

Force 10spd


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## AJ88V (Nov 14, 2012)

damian75 said:


> One quick ? for you guys, what shifters are you using with the force 22 FD, I currently have the Red 10 speed shifters and not sure it is worth the expense if I need to replace the shifters as well. I know I would need to replace them to go to a full 22 gear setup but if all I am doing is replacing the FD. Thanks


The Yaw22 front derailleur works fine with the SRAM 10 front shifter (mine is currently a Force 10). If you upgrade to 22, you will only need to replace the right shifter to 11 speed, the left shifter will be fine.


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## dieselcruiserhead (Aug 30, 2008)

Here is a great link that shows the Sram 22 (red and force) weights of components. Force is a lot of bang for the buck, and what I'm doing as well. The claimed weight of Force 22 cranks, for example, is more than it actually is...

SRAM 22 Unveiled: All New RED, Force 11-Speed Road Groups – Tech, Weights & First Rides!


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

chiasticon said:


> ...q-factor is less with BB30 so that's prolly the problem.


Whut?


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## Stormyghost (Oct 13, 2014)

*SRAM Red; Yaw Front Derailleur*



damian75 said:


> One quick ? for you guys, what shifters are you using with the force 22 FD, I currently have the Red 10 speed shifters and not sure it is worth the expense if I need to replace the shifters as well. I know I would need to replace them to go to a full 22 gear setup but if all I am doing is replacing the FD. Thanks



I'm a new lady here, trying to learn, so be kind guys! I have a Trek Speed Concept 7 and want to use the SRAM Red Crankset. I've done tri's for over 4 years and I am tired of being dependent upon the Trek bike store so I am learning to do things myself. From what I am reading in you posts, I can use the SRAM Red, but I might need to tweak some things. Currently, except for carbon Mavic wheels, my bike is "factory". Any advice (other than what is your posts here) is welcome for getting this new crankset to work on my bike. Thanks in advance.​


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Stormyghost said:


> I'm a new lady here, trying to learn, so be kind guys! I have a Trek Speed Concept 7 and want to use the SRAM Red Crankset. I've done tri's for over 4 years and I am tired of being dependent upon the Trek bike store so I am learning to do things myself. From what I am reading in you posts, I can use the SRAM Red, but I might need to tweak some things. Currently, except for carbon Mavic wheels, my bike is "factory". Any advice (other than what is your posts here) is welcome for getting this new crankset to work on my bike. Thanks in advance.​


As long as you have the correct bottom bracket bearings (only the non-drive side is different, and it has a steel cover rather than a bearing shield like the drive side) and a GXP crank, just install it as usual. It's about as simple as it gets. 

Just remember, don't get anything that says PF (press-fit) or BB30. ONLY GXP cranks will work. If your bike has a Shimano crank now you change the non-drive side bearing and you're good to go.


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