# "Campy-Snob" Cause or Effect?



## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

Just had another very bad experiences @ an LBS. I needed a _specific_ cable for my Campy levers. The woman there tried to convince me that their Shimano cable would work _perfectly_ with my Campy system. Of course I knew better (from personal experience). To prove a point, I guess, I bought the cable, went home, got the cable I was replacing w/ a _clearly_ different sized head, brought it back and tried to reason with her. Of course there was no reasoning with her as she had 20 years experience @ the bike shop and _never ever_ had _any issue whatsover_ with using a Shimano cable head in Campy levers. It only made me even more angry.

Basic lesson I'm sure anyone whose ever tried to reason with Shimano-folks about compatibility has learned: They don't know Campagnolo.

I guess their lack of understanding perhaps requires Campy owners to know and understand their equipment better than Shimano owners. A Shimano owner can walk basically into any LBS and can expect to find _something_ that can easily resolve any issue they have. If they don't know much about bikes, no problem, the person behind the counter can more than likely diagose/fix anything without the bike owner having to put any thought into the process. Perhaps the LBS employee feels intimidated when someone shows up and actually knows more about their bike than the employee, I dunno. Perhaps they automatically think the bike owner is a total snob when they try to explain something to the LBS employee that said employee _just doesn't get_ or _just doesn't want to hear_, and the bike owner subsequently gets pissed-off or irritated.

So: *Are Campy-Owners considered "Campy-Snobs" because they own Campy, or are they percieved as being "Campy-Snobs" because they [tend to] know thier stuff a little more than they typical bike owner?*

This thread is to address this issue, as well as to share your pain/frustration w/ LBSs that can drive you to the point of going Postal.


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## RoadBikeVirgin (Nov 21, 2008)

I've never owned Campy, but you touched on why I own a Shimano-quipped bike and a SRAM-equipped bike, but not Campy. And why I won't try Campy. I'm not even slightly mechanically inclined, and the LBS hates working on Campy. Maybe if more bikes offered Campy equipped bikes, it would force the shops to actually learn how to work on Campy, and people would be more receptive to giving it a shot?

I hate to discount Campy, as I've heard TERRIFIC reviews of their higher end lines, but if my LBS doesn't want to work on it...

And If I have to wait for them to order even basic parts like cables, etc...

I can understand your frustration in this matter. It definitely seems like shop workers aren't incredibly inclined to admit they don't know everything about everything. I've had several experiences where I came in prepared, doing tons of research, and the info I had that didn't mix with their opinions... yeah, don't get me started  

Hang in there!


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

In my opinion, the Campagnolo company is more than a little responsible for their situation. Back in ancient days, Campy was essentially the only component company that made true high quality components. They had the market to themselves. 

Then, as it happened in practically every industry, the Japanese bicycle industry got their act together, offering fine components at better prices. Call it pride, haughtiness, simple ineptness or a no-win situation against a rapacious, determined foe, Campy was unable to maintain its market position against the newcomers. Campy became marginalized, at least in the United States.

Anyway, be all that as it may, I'm glad I live in a major city. Maybe only one in ten bicycle stores can serve my Campy needs, but that still leaves me a good twenty or so bicycle stores to choose from.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

Mapei said:


> Anyway, be all that as it may, I'm glad I live in a major city. Maybe only one in ten bicycle stores can serve my Campy needs, but that still leaves me a good twenty or so bicycle stores to choose from.


Yup...living in Boulder it's pretty easy to find a person who knows Campy--plus my components rarely to never need servicing. They just work. Routine things like derailler adjustments and cable replacements are something everyone should know how to do anyway. It's not rocket science.


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

Mapei said:


> Anyway, be all that as it may, I'm glad I live in a major city. Maybe only one in ten bicycle stores can serve my Campy needs, but that still leaves me a good twenty or so bicycle stores to choose from.


Ironically, I live in Brooklyn, and in my neighborhood, the only LBS known to have a fair stock of Campy parts/spares absolutly sucks (no names mentioned, if you live in the area you probably have a pretty good idea of who they are).


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> Yup...living in Boulder it's pretty easy to find a person who knows Campy--plus my components rarely to never need servicing. They just work. Routine things like derailler adjustments and cable replacements are something everyone should know how to do anyway. It's not rocket science.


My stuff generally never needs servicing, either (except for the 09 Centaur Shifters I'm using w/ older rear derailleur---but that's another story). I just always get the LBS-"Campy-Experience" when it's time to replace the cables/brake pads/etc...


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## J24 (Oct 8, 2003)

Once went to check out a newly opened shop. The bikes were mostly Shimano and few SRAM equiped, except for a customer's new red, black and white Pinarello Prince with Record 10.
When I said it was a great looking bike, one of the employees said yeah it was.... but the components were crap because they didn't have a brake release, he was only a little embarrassed when I showed him where it was,


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

I work on my own stuff, too. None of my 4 bikes were bought whole; they're all built up from frames. Campagnolo was the thing to have in the old days back when all I could afford was a set of downtube gear levers. Now that's all I use - with the exception of a sugino crankset on the fixie. The fixie is a conversion; used to be a gios megalite with all veloce. One of these days I may spring for a record pista crank, but then I'd have to go to an 1/8th inch chain. I love the way it looks and the way it's made. It is just plain elegant, great machining and design. Campy stuff is easy to work on, never breaks, and help is available either in the excellent little booklets, or on the internet. My two geared bikes are chorus and chorus/centaur/record mix; the single speed is centaur crank, brakes and a chorus front wheel. I would not let an LBS touch them. and if it's Italian, it's the best..


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

We're a Campy shop. The owner, me, and one of our employees have Campy on at least one of our bikes. We have a Record 11 gruppo in the case, but no Shimano. We carry genuine Campy cable sets (which are, of course, overpriced) as well as Clark's cables - which have the smaller heads to fit in Campy Ergos. I believe SRAM cables fit as well, and we have those also.

I've run into the "no brake release" thing before as well. I took the time to explain that Campy focuses on racing, and as such, the Campy system is much better for that. If a spoke breaks or a wheel gets massively out of true in a race, you only need to move your finger on the lever and hit the brake release, versus reaching down to the brake on a Shimano/SRAM system to open the brake to stop the pads from dragging.

The shop I worked for previously is a Shimano shop, but the head mechanic uses Campy only on his own bikes.

So, there are at least 2 shops in Indy where Campy is Spoken.


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

Actually the best LBS I've dealt with personally was a bike shop in Richmond VA. They were perfectly comfortable with my Campy needs . I think at least two of a staff of three ran Campy and would always have some bikes built w/ it, and they had a pretty safe inventory of basic Campy maintainance parts (i.e. cables w/ & w/o housings, brake pads etc...).

What I really appreciated most about them wasn't so much that they had Campy & were comfortable/familiar w/ it, but that the would _actually listen_ to what I had to say, no matter how unusual it would sound. Maybe it was because they were comfortable w/ Campy, maybe they just focused on providing good service, or perhaps it was a combination of the two??


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

Most bikes are OEM with shimano or sram so campy knowledgeable shops are rare. I am fortunate to have a LBS about 20 miles away that stocks campy parts and cables but nothing 11 speed yet. I have my own tools and workstand and keep a supply of cables, chains, and cassettes on hand for 9,10, and 11 speed (commuter, spare road, Pego) . I am fairly certain I have the only campy 11 chain tool in the county.

I don't know how old you are, but there was a time when shimano only sold complete groups to bike manufacturers. If you bought a shimano XT equipped MTB, it was all XT including brakes, bottom bracket, and hubs. It was all or nothing and then shimano was involved in an anti-trust action and that's why you can now buy a bike with a shimano drivetrain, FSA cranks, and tektro brakes. For campy, you bought a grouppo with everything including hubs and a LBS built it up including lacing the wheels to some wolber rims with Barum tubulars.


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

*Those must have been the days.*

I'll PM you my age :wink5: Old enough to be an adult and to realize kids now days are completley out of control, disrespectful & spoiled rotten. :frown2: , young enought to not have 20 years experience with pretty much anything  

I've been _seriously_ cycling for only last 6 years or so. Even as little as six years ago when I started looking for my first "proper" road bike, I was perplexed (in a scratch-your-head kind of way) at how bike were sold completely off the shelf. Since that time it's only gotten worse. I remember back then researching all the differences between the groups: Shimano's Tiagra, 105, Ultegra, Dura Ace; Campag's Veloce, Chorus & Record (almost NO mention of Centaur). I researched the wheels, tires, saddles, seatposts, handlebars, handlebar tape!!! Then I'd go to the LBS and felt like I had to "settle" for what they had on the shelf, or what the bike manufacturer could "put together".

My First bike was a Shimano 105 9 speed triple. My next (and current) two bike were completley bespoke, down to the inner tubes. One of which I built completely by myself--save for building the wheels, both I generally maintain on my own. I think there's something special to having a bike that is completly yours, that's as individual as you. Built with your ideas, your choice of gearing, choice of saddle, tires, handlebars, with your likes, _without_ your _dislikes_, and all the little details that make what you ride different from _anything else_ found anywhere.

I can understand why the industry has gone toward "mass produced complete bikes"/"cookie cutter bikes". It's cheaper for the manufacturer, less small-parts inventory for the retailer, and easier to obtain so-called "instant gratification". 

But perhaps that's why people who sacrafice the extra time & effort into building thier own bike come across snobbish (?), if your going to build you own bike, you _have to_ put the time & research into what you're doing and why you're doing it. They put the blood, sweat & tears into learning their bikes, and plenty of lessons the hard way in the process, and don't want to be given some generic-off-the-shelf response to a concern, or given a BS & incorrect explanation as to why their wrong. And perhaps people who build thier own bikes tend (emphasis on _tend to_, not _always_) to gravitate toward Campy for various reasons, thus cosidered as being "Campy-Snobs".

I honestly do consider Campagnolo to be more of a long-term investment. Parts are designed to be _repaired_ and not _replaced_, and those who appreciate a higher level of customization may be willing to make such an investment of their equipment. Of course there's plenty of people who appreciate a higher level of customization and like Shimano, but it _seems_ the tendancy is that Campy owner's tend to fall into that category. Conversly, there's plenty of Campy riders who don't know a thing about their bikes, either.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

My first road bike was a Mercian 531c KOM with Nuevo Record with a six speed freewheel. It had 42/52 chainrings and I believe a 13-24 freewheel. The brakes were mostly to slow you down since they really had no stopping power and the drivetrain was standard campy friction "overshift and back" but you got used to it. Shimano came out with SIS and when Raleigh introduced a 753 with Dura Ace 8 (downtube) I bought one. I eventually upgraded to STI in 1993 and exclusively rode shimano eight speed until 1999. Feeling the need to go to nine speed plus purchasing a Merckx MXL, I decided to go back to campy. I put chorus 9 on Eddy with a Record crankset because they were nicer looking. I eventually upgraded to ten speed in 2003 and stayed that way until earlier this year when I bought a chorus 11 drivetrain with a record crankset. I still use Mavic SSC brakes. I still have the Mercian and Merckx but my main rides are my Gunnar commuter and Pegoretti BLE. 

I don't know if it is snobbish or just a decision understanding the consequences of being locked in to campy.


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

bigbill said:


> I don't know if it is snobbish or just a decision understanding the consequences of being locked in to campy.


I totally agree with this statement. I am by no means a snob. I bought/invested into Campy understanding the consequences. I just don't like being looked at like I am a snob by the person behind the counter at the LBS, perhaps in part because they don't understand what I'm trying to explain to them (i.e. finding a compatible shift cable) or they think I'm rich because I ride Campy (I'm broke as glass, I just know where to look for their stuff at a price I can afford ).

And yes, I do believe part of the consequence of having Campy is having to learn to do perform some [minimal] maintainance, but it's all been worth it!!!


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Ferraris are not for Everyman, either ;-)


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*solution...*

You should have ground or filed down the cable head so it would work and never go back there. That's my approach. I buy a couple of water bottles every year from my LBS. Nothing more.

Even if the LBS had Campy parts, they'd probably cost 50% more than online. Even US online stores are still charging ridiculous prices for most 2009 parts. I'm now buying online from the UK.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

bigbill said:


> I am fairly certain I have the only campy 11 chain tool in the county.


Hah, not true! I got one, too! 

P.S.: Oops, I saw you said "county", not "country" (where are my glasses when I need them?)...


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

J24 said:


> Once went to check out a newly opened shop. The bikes were mostly Shimano and few SRAM equiped, except for a customer's new red, black and white Pinarello Prince with Record 10.
> When I said it was a great looking bike, one of the employees said yeah it was.... but the components were crap because they didn't have a brake release, he was only a little embarrassed when I showed him where it was,


I remember being embarrased myself when I had to ask where the brake release was on a Shimano bike I got for my wife. I was looking at the lever like I would with Campy.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

C-40 said:


> You should have ground or filed down the cable head so it would work and never go back there. That's my approach. I buy a couple of water bottles every year from my LBS. Nothing more.
> 
> Even if the LBS had Campy parts, they'd probably cost 50% more than online. Even US online stores are still charging ridiculous prices for most 2009 parts. I'm now buying online from the UK.


When I lived in Va Beach, the "sponsor" shop offered to sell me a Centaur 10 speed cassette for only $165. That was with my discount. I do my own wrenching so with few exceptions, I buy online.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

C-40 said:


> Even if the LBS had Campy parts, they'd probably cost 50% more than online. Even US online stores are still charging ridiculous prices for most 2009 parts. I'm now buying online from the UK.


You might want to check out LickBike in Chicago. They have a price match gurarantee that I believe includes prices from Europe. Official Camapgnolo dealer, too, so full warranty, and good service. For example, they currently offer the full Super Record group for $1888.88. Chorus is $1244.88. 

I'm not in any way related to the store or any of its employees, I might add...


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

I've been pretty much resigned to getting my components out of Europe for the last 2 or 3 years. It kinda sucks, but that's how it is when you can get fresh-out-of-the-unopened-box components shipped to you for significantly cheaper than what it goes for _wholesale_ here in the States.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

C-40 said:


> You should have ground or filed down the cable head so it would work and never go back there. That's my approach. I buy a couple of water bottles every year from my LBS. Nothing more.
> 
> Even if the LBS had Campy parts, they'd probably cost 50% more than online. *Even US online stores are still charging ridiculous prices for most 2009 parts.* I'm now buying online from the UK.


Is it really "ridiculous" when our cost on those parts is close to the retail at PBK? The prices themselves are ridiculous, but what we are charging is not. We have no choice.

But thanks for supporting another country's economy when ours is doing so well.....


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Pirx said:


> You might want to check out LickBike in Chicago. *They have a price match gurarantee that I believe includes prices from Europe.* Official Camapgnolo dealer, too, so full warranty, and good service. For example, they currently offer the full Super Record group for $1888.88. Chorus is $1244.88.
> 
> I'm not in any way related to the store or any of its employees, I might add...



We guarantee the lowest price on every item we sell. In the event that you find a lower advertised price, we will match the price and give you 11% of the difference.
You must request a price match over the phone at the time of purchase and we will confirm the advertised price. Items eligible for our low price guarantee must be advertised on a shop's main web site (no Amazon, EBay, etc.) and must be exactly the same as specified in their advertisement. It must be in stock, in original packaging and from the current model year. This offer does not apply to bonus or free offers, generic (percentage) discounts, closeouts, or discontinued items.
We reserve the right to limit quantities, check if their items are in stock or deny a price match. *We will match prices from any USA based bicycle company, provided they have a phone number, a physical (brick-and-mortar) address, and factory authorization to sell the parts to be matched.* All products sold by Lickton's/lickbike.com carry their full factory warranty.


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

PlatyPius said:


> Is it really "ridiculous" when our cost on those parts is close to the retail at PBK? The prices themselves are ridiculous, but what we are charging is not. We have no choice.


And that's why I go to the LBS when I can. I understand that you _have to_ charge more for Campy, and have little to show for profits in the process. I don't know all the numbers/math/business of it, but the wholesalers are killing the LBS on the Campy front IMO. (Same goes for Sidi, Giordanna & other European manufacturers).

But [somewhat] going back to the original thread, that's why I go to LBS where I can. I don't mind going to the LBS to get things like cables, brake pads, snacks, and giving them a chance to fix some service issues (even though I generally know how to do most on my own).

Perhaps if Campy rethought their U.S. distribution more LBSs may be more open to making a greater investment in Campy, and then some of the employees may not look at Campy-owners as being so "high-maintainance".


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## cotocalicyclist (Feb 18, 2006)

PlatyPius said:


> Is it really "ridiculous" when our cost on those parts is close to the retail at PBK? The prices themselves are ridiculous, but what we are charging is not. We have no choice.
> 
> But thanks for supporting another country's economy when ours is doing so well.....



I too buy my parts overseas and install them myself. I wish I could buy from my local shop and support them, but the price gap is HUGE. I have always been perplexed as to why prices are so much higher here (even on some US made parts). PlatyPius, can you please give an explanation why you get charged so much for your inventory? I would think dealers would be petty upset at this since clearly a lot of the higher end bike stuff is being bought online from overseas now. Thanks.


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

I total agreed with JP Campy got to do some thing to protect US dealers otherwise they will not pushing Campy products by going with other MFG.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

cotocalicyclist said:


> I too buy my parts overseas and install them myself. I wish I could buy from my local shop and support them, but the price gap is HUGE. I have always been perplexed as to why prices are so much higher here (even on some US made parts). PlatyPius, can you please give an explanation why you get charged so much for your inventory? I would think dealers would be petty upset at this since clearly a lot of the higher end bike stuff is being bought online from overseas now. Thanks.


#1, currently, is the fact that the dollar is crap.
#2 is proximity. England is pretty damn close to Italy. Less shipping, less customs issues.
#3 is the layers of distributors.

I don't know for sure, but I would bet that there is a US importer of Campy stuff. The importer sells to the distributors (QBP, J&B, Ochsner, etc) who then sell to us (LBS).

As you probably know, the normal margin on parts/accessories in a bike shop is 50%. (In other words, that seat bag you paid $12.99 for cost us $6.50.) I don't like it, but that's the way it has to be for a shop to stay open. Yes, if we could sell more volume we could charge less. The local market is only so big, though, so it isn't really possible.

Major components/groups don't fall into that 50% margin scheme, though. The price would be ungodly, and the parts are expensive enough that we can charge a lower markup and still make enough money to stay alive. Normal margin on a gruppo or individual drivetrain component is 35-40%; sometimes lower. Yes, it makes us cringe to charge what needs to be charged on some parts.

Considering that almost no one goes into a bike shop and just buys a Record 11 group, you should also consider that you are probably going to get it installed for free. That's $60 labour or so, not including the $150 Campy11 chain tool that you need for the new chains.

So, picking a random online seller of Chorus 11 (that's in the US), we come up with Reparto Corse. They are having a sale on the group at the moment for $1449.95, down from $1799.95. $1799.95 is high, and I wonder if they ever charged that much. $1449.95 is a pretty good price. They could go lower, though.

Cost (for us) on a Chorus 11 group a few weeks ago was $999.99. I just checked today, and it's now $1029.

Strolling over to PBK, they are currently on sale, also. They're charging $1361.58 for a Chorus 11 gruppo. So you see that, with a little persuation, your local LBS could probably match PBK's price or come close. (I reckon the exchange rate has changed again) Figure $1400 even for the gruppo and installation. This depends, of course, on what distributors they use. My price quote is from Ochsner, which tends to have the lowest prices on Campy.

This obviously wasn't a good example. I'm used to seeing PBK selling items for less than we can buy them for - especially Shimano stuff. I guess Campy is expensive everywhere, eh?


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## cotocalicyclist (Feb 18, 2006)

Thanks for the information. I am certainly no businessman, but it seems like the layers of distribution are a little more cumbersome than they need to be. I guess this is mostly Campy's fault. If they opened a US arm of the company to import and distribute I wonder if they could keep the cost down and garner a larger share of the market.

Anyway, I will try to talk with my LBS first in the future to see what is possible. I realize you guys are in a tough spot.


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## brewster (Jun 15, 2004)

The two "big box" LBS stores in my little town don't like that I buy parts online and avoid them, but you know, every time I've asked the price to buy something through them it's astronomical. Even laughable. If I mention a Campy part, they just kind of look at me with a blank expression as if I'm speaking a foreign language. Since I have all my own tools and do all my own work all I need are the parts. They refuse to match the prices of the major catalogs. I don't feel guilty because I'm supporting somebody elses LBS in another town. Each "catalog" I buy from has real stores just like them. If my LBS would make an attempt to win my business, I'd buy from them, but they both seem content selling $400 bikes to newbies to ride the trail once a year. I'm suppose to pay more locally because why? 

brewster


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## daveloving (Jan 5, 2009)

+1 I feel like my LBS 's are Excel Sports and Branford Bike.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

brewster said:


> The two "big box" LBS stores in my little town don't like that I buy parts online and avoid them, but you know, every time I've asked the price to buy something through them it's astronomical. Even laughable. If I mention a Campy part, they just kind of look at me with a blank expression as if I'm speaking a foreign language. Since I have all my own tools and do all my own work all I need are the parts. They refuse to match the prices of the major catalogs. I don't feel guilty because I'm supporting somebody elses LBS in another town. Each "catalog" I buy from has real stores just like them. If my LBS would make an attempt to win my business, I'd buy from them, but they both seem content selling $400 bikes to newbies to ride the trail once a year. *I'm suppose to pay more locally because why?*
> 
> brewster


It, of course, depends on your local shop.

I've been trying everything I possibly can to get customers to come in and keep coming in. We're doing pretty good so far; we're at double the gross receipts of the shop under it's former owner at this time last year.

One of the things that we do is sponsor the Indy Cycling MeetUp group. ( http://www.meetup.com/IndyCycling/ ). We have rides that leave from our shop 5-6 days per week. I also organise a ride from my house (60 miles away, in the boonies) on Sundays. Meetup members get a discount, classes on stuff like changing flats, specials of the month, and such.

We also sponsor several racers, the local Team in Training, and a Little 500 team. Other things we do include: random cookouts at the shop, lots of random freebies, express service for commuters, pick-up and delivery, and other things I can't think of now. lol

Our staff covers the entire range, so nothing is "foreign" to us. The owner is obsessed with vintage BMX bikes as well as current stuff. He caters to the triathlete crowd, and is also a MTB freak.

Me, I'm a MTB guy, a 650B guy, and a road guy. I love touring bikes, randonneuses, vintage bikes, Campy and SRAM (to a degree). I'm all about steel and titanium.

Charles is a former racer and a Campy freak. He has an uncle with a garage full of Bridgestones...some of them still in the box. I'm still waiting for one of them.  

Jim, our newest employee, is a touring guy. I hired him 2 days after he returned from Colorado. He's been into cycling forever, doesn't drive a car, and is great with customers. He also leads some of the group rides. He's a Rohloff guy. He likes Campy too, though. He's also a steel guy.

We try to price our merchandise as low as possible while still allowing us enough of a profit to keep us open. We don't carry much in the high-end component department, simply because everyone IS buying online. We have a Record 11 group, a few Red cassettes, an FSA brake set, an Origin-8 lightweight brake set, a Centaur crank, and a ton of Rival cassettes. We don't carry much more than that. I wish we could, but the market just isn't there.

What we do offer is service. I realize that many people (here, at least) work on their own stuff. For those who don't, we've worked hard to have 1-2 day turn-around on repairs, and we have the lowest price on tune-ups and overhauls in Indy. We also do a lot of freebies. People come in off of the Monon Trail several times a day with some little problem or another. We fix it and send them on their way. No charge. 

That's why you should buy from your LBS. Or at least, from us. :thumbsup:


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*I know...*



Pirx said:


> You might want to check out LickBike in Chicago. They have a price match gurarantee that I believe includes prices from Europe. Official Camapgnolo dealer, too, so full warranty, and good service. For example, they currently offer the full Super Record group for $1888.88. Chorus is $1244.88.
> 
> I'm not in any way related to the store or any of its employees, I might add...


I've ordered from Lickton's before, but I'd be amazed if they would match UK prices, if they were much lower. The exchange rates were so low when I bought my 11 speed parts early this year that they were below US wholesale prices. The exchange rates aren't so good now.

Their Chorus group price is good, but the other groups are cheaper in the UK and the individual parts are quite a bit cheaper, even with the currently poor exchange rate. There are few bargains from US based sellers.


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## bedazzle410 (Sep 26, 2005)

I am looking to purchase a Chorus and S record 11. I do not see any sites in Europe or UK cheaper than Lickbike site. S record 1,888.88 and chorus 1244.88. Let me know if you are aware of a better price somewhere else.
Thanks


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

PlatyPius said:


> It, of course, depends on your local shop.
> 
> I've been trying everything I possibly can to get customers to come in and keep coming in. We're doing pretty good so far; we're at double the gross receipts of the shop under it's former owner at this time last year.
> 
> ...



Licktons and BikeTiresDirect ship to FPO's. I bought lots of stuff from Lick while I was stationed in Sardinia in 2007. I'm deploying again next month but not taking a bike this time. Don't want to get sand in the gears.


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

daveloving said:


> +1 I feel like my LBS 's are Excel Sports and Branford Bike.


Excel Sports is great. I remember when I lived in Denver I drove all the way up to them a few times just to "window shop". I've also purchased from them over-the-phone after I moved back to the East Coast. I've had great experiences w/ them both in person & on the phone. 



...and, yes, they speak Campy!! :thumbsup:


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

Excel is where I have bought all my campagnolo stuff. a ton of it. I love 'em. I bought stuff at Branford when tim was there, but they are a little too pricey now.


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

Wow!! Kinda makes me wish I lived in Indy (just _a little bit_). I hope your efforts pay off, as I still truly believe that the LBS is an important part of a community (especially here in NYC where bikes are used extensively).


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

I think the LBSs that turned me off in the past where the ones who didn't buy into that thinking. It seemed like they used the 3-C's of selling:

C the bike
C the door
C ya later

Perhaps I _would've_ come across as a snob to them because _I wasn't_ an easy sale, I actually had demands--at least more demands than that guy who just left Toys-R-Us and just happened to find a bike shop on the way home. Perhaps coincientially, they were the same LBSs who didn't know jack about Campy, because, hey, they didn't have to.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Pirx said:


> You might want to check out LickBike in Chicago. They have a price match gurarantee that I believe includes prices from Europe. Official Camapgnolo dealer, too, so full warranty, and good service. For example, they currently offer the full Super Record group for $1888.88. Chorus is $1244.88.
> 
> I'm not in any way related to the store or any of its employees, I might add...


If you were affiliated with them, you would know that the price match guarantee does not apply to purchases outside the US. I tried to see if they would come close to a ProBikeKit order that I was going to make in the UK, and the owner would not budge on his online prices and said that if he tried to match the overseas prices he would go under. With that said, they seem to be the best price in the US, and my encounter with them was about 2 years ago so maybe they changed their policy.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

jpdigital said:


> I'll PM you my age :wink5: Old enough to be an adult and to realize kids now days are completley out of control, disrespectful & spoiled rotten. :frown2: , young enought to not have 20 years experience with pretty much anything
> 
> I've been _seriously_ cycling for only last 6 years or so. Even as little as six years ago when I started looking for my first "proper" road bike, I was perplexed (in a scratch-your-head kind of way) at how bike were sold completely off the shelf. Since that time it's only gotten worse. I remember back then researching all the differences between the groups: Shimano's Tiagra, 105, Ultegra, Dura Ace; Campag's Veloce, Chorus & Record (almost NO mention of Centaur). I researched the wheels, tires, saddles, seatposts, handlebars, handlebar tape!!! Then I'd go to the LBS and felt like I had to "settle" for what they had on the shelf, or what the bike manufacturer could "put together".
> 
> ...


Great post. I'm 38 and have over 20 years experience in cycling. I started out the same way that BigBill did, but with Super Record instead of the Nuovo Record. I still have that bike with the friction down tube shifters and the Super Record. It must have close to 40,000 miles on it.

I have been working on building up my C50 for the past 10 months and might just have it finished here by the end of August if Ciamillo will send me my brakes.

The last time I had a LBS work on one of my bikes was back in late 2006 when I was building up my Cristallo. I needed a headset and to have it installed, so I took the frame to a LBS. Not only did they give me lip service about buying the frame from Switzerland for $1,100 less than they would have sold it to me for, but they also scratched the clearcoat on the fork when they installed the headset. After that, I spent the money for all the Park and Chris King headset tools needed to install headsets, and I have never gone to a LBS. I buy almost everything online now.


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## Maverick (Apr 29, 2004)

bedazzle410 said:


> I am looking to purchase a Chorus and S record 11. I do not see any sites in Europe or UK cheaper than Lickbike site. S record 1,888.88 and chorus 1244.88. Let me know if you are aware of a better price somewhere else.
> Thanks


try Maestro UK, i believe their price is one of the cheapest out there.

http://www.maestro-uk.com/

do share with us your experience in dealing with Maestro should you ever get the components.

cheers.


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## Chris Keller (May 19, 2008)

I don't waste my time in shops that don't speak Campagnolo! I live in Colorado Springs so there are a few places I like to deal with. Denver and Boulder are not too far either. I guess I'm pretty lucky. 

After 17 years on Shi.... I tried Campagnolo in 2001 (Record 10spd) on my new custom ti Gangl. I will NEVER go back. (Now have SR 11spd on my 07 Look 595 Ultra).


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## brewster (Jun 15, 2004)

PlatyPius said:


> I
> That's why you should buy from your LBS. Or at least, from us. :thumbsup:


That all sounds great. A real bike shop. The way it's supposed to be. Sadly, that isn't the mindset of the two LBS's here. They have a "Best Buy" philosophy to running their business and practice the 3 C's.

brewster


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

Chris Keller said:


> I don't waste my time in shops that don't speak Campagnolo! I live in Colorado Springs so there are a few places I like to deal with. Denver and Boulder are not too far either. I guess I'm pretty lucky.


Yeah, I have a very good friend in Co. Spgs. who rides Campy. He's spoiled rotten!!! Which is good for him, because he's no gear-head. Life for him would be miserable if he lived elsewhere, needing something done on his bike he can't do and being treated like he's the scum of the earth because they have no clue about anything mechanical on his bike.


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

How about Europebikepart.com ?


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*lower at Ribble...*



bedazzle410 said:


> I am looking to purchase a Chorus and S record 11. I do not see any sites in Europe or UK cheaper than Lickbike site. S record 1,888.88 and chorus 1244.88. Let me know if you are aware of a better price somewhere else.
> Thanks



The Chrous group is about $1060, and Record about $1537, assuming a 1.66 exchange rate. In GBP, it's 638 and 927.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

fabsroman said:


> I tried to see if they would come close to a ProBikeKit order that I was going to make in the UK, and the owner would not budge on his online prices and said that if he tried to match the overseas prices he would go under.


Well, I was curious to check the claims of people saying they can get Campy stuff cheaper in the UK. Maybe it's just me, but try as I might, I could not find any place that would even get close to the prices that I quoted from Lickton's. In particular, the stuff from PBK seems a lot more expensive. 



C-40 said:


> The Chrous group is about $1060, and Record about $1537, assuming a 1.66 exchange rate. In GBP, it's 638 and 927.


Where do you get these prices???


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

$1,793 for a Super Record groupo from ComoBike.

http://www.comobike.com/ct/shop/pages/articoli.php?categoria_id=180

Plus, with ProBikeKit you have to wait until their 20% off sale to make things really worthwhile. You get 20% off and free shipping. It ends up being really good.


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

*Please look @ the OP.*



> You might want to check out.... They have a price match gurarantee that I believe includes prices from Europe. Official Camapgnolo dealer, too, so full warranty, and good service. For example, they currently offer the full Super Record group for ... Chorus is....
> 
> I'm not in any way related to the store or any of its employees, I might add...





> I am looking to purchase a Chorus and S record 11. I do not see any sites in Europe or UK cheaper than ..... S record .... and chorus .... Let me know if you are aware of a better price somewhere else.
> Thanks





> $.... for a Super Record groupo from ....





> The Chrous group is about $1060, and Record about $..., assuming a 1.66 exchange rate. In GBP, it's .... and ....


The puropose of this thread is not to comparison shop, or compare European prices to US prices, or to show where to buy the cheapest. According to the OP, the main thought was to exchange thought, ideas and feelings Campy owners have had with LBSs who are not familiar w/ Campy's products.

For comparison pricing and the like, please refer to other Threads or feel free to begin one on that topic.


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

> You might want to check out.... They have a price match gurarantee that I believe includes prices from Europe. Official Camapgnolo dealer, too, so full warranty, and good service. For example, they currently offer the full Super Record group for ... Chorus is....
> 
> I'm not in any way related to the store or any of its employees, I might add...





> I am looking to purchase a Chorus and S record 11. I do not see any sites in Europe or UK cheaper than ..... S record .... and chorus .... Let me know if you are aware of a better price somewhere else.
> Thanks





> $.... for a Super Record groupo from ....





> The Chrous group is about $1060, and Record about $..., assuming a 1.66 exchange rate. In GBP, it's .... and ....


The puropose of this thread is not to comparison shop, or compare European prices to US prices, or to show where to buy the cheapest. According to the OP, the main thought was to exchange thought, ideas and feelings Campy owners have had with LBSs who are not familiar w/ Campy's products.

For comparison pricing and the like, please refer to other Threads or feel free to begin one on that topic.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

jpdigital said:


> The puropose of this thread is not to comparison shop, or compare European prices to US prices, or to show where to buy the cheapest. According to the OP, the main thought was to exchange thought, ideas and feelings Campy owners have had with LBSs who are not familiar w/ Campy's products.
> 
> For comparison pricing and the like, please refer to other Threads or feel free to begin one on that topic.


So, are you trying to show us what a Campy snob is like? My threads always get derailed and I could care less. Does it really matter. Then again, this post of mine isn't exactly addressing the OP either. I view threads like conversations. You might start on one subject and 30 minutes later you have gone from fine cuisine in Rome, covered 12 other topics, and ended up on American muscle cars. Who cares.


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## RoadBikeVirgin (Nov 21, 2008)

jpdigital said:


> The puropose of this thread is not to comparison shop, or compare European prices to US prices, or to show where to buy the cheapest. According to the OP, the main thought was to exchange thought, ideas and feelings Campy owners have had with LBSs who are not familiar w/ Campy's products.
> 
> For comparison pricing and the like, please refer to other Threads or feel free to begin one on that topic.


It's a bike forum. You don't honestly expect people to stay on topic, do you??


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

jpdigital said:


> Excel Sports is great. I remember when I lived in Denver I drove all the way up to them a few times just to "window shop". I've also purchased from them over-the-phone after I moved back to the East Coast. I've had great experiences w/ them both in person & on the phone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...and, yes, they speak Campy!! :thumbsup:


They may speak Campy, but their best deals have usually been on the Big S. If you want a Campy expert go to Vecchios in Boulder. No deals to be had there though, but they know Campy inside out.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

RoadBikeVirgin said:


> It's a bike forum. You don't honestly expect people to stay on topic, do you??


Exactly. If this was a tax return prep forum that I go to and I asked a specific question that required a specific answer, then I would expect it to remain on topic, and even then, sometimes it gets off topic.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

*Easy*



Pirx said:


> Well, I was curious to check the claims of people saying they can get Campy stuff cheaper in the UK. Maybe it's just me, but try as I might, I could not find any place that would even get close to the prices that I quoted from Lickton's. In particular, the stuff from PBK seems a lot more expensive.
> Where do you get these prices???


This is not hard ... 
www.ribblecycles.co.uk

Ribble has frequent 15% off sales -- one running now.

Furthermore, USA residents don't pay the UK's 15% VAT tax rate. IIRC, Ribbles displayed prices include VAT, it all gets deducted when you check out and enter your shipping address. Effectively, multiply all prices by x0.87

Specific example, Chorus-11 gruppo 

*Ribble* - http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/Groupsets.asp - GBP 750.
Deduct VAT 0.87x750 = GBP 653.
At today's exchange rate, 653 x $1.66 = $1083.
Estimated shipping $30 via Royal Mail & USPS, GRAND TOTAL $1,113.

*Lickton* (aka Lick Bike) - http://www.lickbike.com http://www.lickbike.com/productpage.aspx?PART_NUM_SUB='7181-69' - US$ 1245.
Flat rate shipping $20 , GRAND TOTAL $1,265.
plus sales tax if you live in Lickton's home state.

Still $153 cheaper at Ribble.

BTW, the mandatory Campy CN-300 11sp chain tool is US$140 at Ribble now (http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/ProductDetail.asp?ProductID=3925 ), 
but $200 at Lickton -- also factor that in.

UK Prices during Feb-May were another 12-15% cheaper, as the USD was especially weak. So while the savings aren't as large as earlier in the year, I still consider $153 groupset savings "significant". Plus $60 cheaper Campy chain tool.


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

:blush2: 

Oops!! 

I didn't really expect anything as far as staying on topic. These things do tend to get all over the place, I undersand. I'm still relativly new to starting threads (my post count can attest to that). 

Guess I was just trying to say there's lots of other threads that discuss pricing. 

The OP showed a pretty abstract/fluid/"point-of-view" kind of thought, and yes, a tax-return would require a specific answer, as opposed to asking for an opinion.

Either way, it's all good...


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

jpdigital said:


> :blush2:
> 
> Oops!!
> 
> ...


As long as we are discussing Campy and not taxes, life is good. LOL That is the way I look at it.

And yes, there are a ton of threads about the best places to get Campy, but those threads become quickly outdated as prices change among the different players and new players come along. In 2006 I was able to get a Record 10 speed group from 11speed.com for $1,000. That was awesome. The next year I bought 2 more groups from them for $1,200 each. Then, they were gone. Had to go to PBK after that, and they were pretty good with their 20% sales. Also used Ribbles. Then, along came ComoBike in the middle of last year, and they have been great with communication and issues. Bought some Record 10 speed chains from them and a Record hub over the winter.

Part of being able to get around the bike shop problem is knowing where to get the components at online. I have a couple online places for parts too. Stripped a nut for my record brakes and broke a chainring bolt. My LBS was pretty much useless on getting me a replacement part. They said they would order it and get back to me. 2 weeks later I just went online and ordered it myself and the LBS never did get back to me. I guess they aren't making enough money on a $25 brake bolt or $10 chainring bolt, of which I ended up buying 5, to justify the time spent on it. Who knows, I might have seen something in the shop I like when I went to pick up the parts.


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

*Could LBSs be doing more?*

I have to wonder how much more business LBSs could generate if they tried to make themselves more accessible to do-it-yourselfers.

Some of the things *PlatyPius* said their shop's doing are actually _great ideas_. There's always gonna be people who enjoy doing the wrenching on their own; and there's always gonna be those who don't want to/chose not to/know better than to do anything remotely mechianical on their bikes. But I think there's some in the middle who get so turned off by bad service that life's just better when they do it themselves.

Online retailers, warehouse distributors, e-bay & the like are always going to be cheaper than an LBS, and especially for Campy owners buying from Europe almost guarantees an automatic price reduction that's literally too good to pass up. And of course learning how to DIY is typically cheaper than paying someone else to turn the wrenches (at least after the initial invesment in tools is made).

There has to be a _reason_ to go to LBS, and many LBSs unfortunately give reasons _not to_ do business w/ them, especially for people familiar w/ thier bikes. Ironically, the best LBS I ever dealt w/ never gave discounts, and the owner openly admitted it. But what they did promise is _world-class service_ for the money you did spend w/ them. And that's _exactly what they delivered_

But if more LBSs put themselves out there for offering better service in: having parts in-stock; being able to have out-of-stock odered & in their shop quickly; providing better service (and part of that is admitting _ahead of time_ a particular tasks is out of thier league), would wrench-heads be more willing to at least _consider_ giving them a bit more business?


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

jpdigital said:


> I have to wonder how much more business LBSs could generate if they tried to make themselves more accessible to do-it-yourselfers.
> 
> Some of the things *PlatyPius* said their shop's doing are actually _great ideas_. There's always gonna be people who enjoy doing the wrenching on their own; and there's always gonna be those who don't want to/chose not to/know better than to do anything remotely mechianical on their bikes. But I think there's some in the middle who get so turned off by bad service that life's just better when they do it themselves.
> 
> ...


LBSs could be doing a heck of a lot more to bring business into the door. I dealt with 2 of them back in 2006 when I was trying to get a headset put on my Cristallo. I initially ordered the headset from one shop, but it was over a week wait to get it in. Then, I found a Colnago dealer in downtown DC and they had the headset in stock, but it was a 2 day wait to have it installed. Anyway, I went with the latter and made the 30+ minute drive down there. The former shop was a lot more personable, and they didn't give me any crap for buying the frame from overseas since they only sold Trek, etc. and didn't carry Colnagos. Now, the Colnago shop in DC gave me a ton of crap, scratched my fork, and didn't even line up the "Chris King" logos on the top and bottom cups. After that experience, I decided that it was best to stay away from the LBS.

Over the last couple of months I have e-mailed some LBSs to see if they can order parts for me. Pretty much it has been, "Sorry, our wholesaler does not carry that part". They don't want to do anything extra to help me out. Last summer I spent $1,380 at a LBS for some Zipp rims and then needed a crash replacement done this year. The only way to do crash replacement with Zipp is through an authorized dealer. It has been 2 months since I gave them the rim. If they weren't sponsoring my team and I didn't get 15% off there, I probably would never buy another thing there. I was even contemplating the purchase of a new 2009 Zipp wheelset on ebay listed at $1,390. It was an awesome deal, but I really didn't need 2 rims or the spokes and hubs, so I decided to wait on the replacement instead.

Mention Campy and you are really screwed. I've been debating opening a shop and doing Italian bikes/components as a focus. Of course, I'd probably make more money just practicing law. LOL


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## J24 (Oct 8, 2003)

fabsroman said:


> "Sorry, our wholesaler does not carry that part". They don't want to do anything extra to help me out.


I get the same treatment, and I get the idea that the problem is the wholesaler/distributors because of cost not wanting to carry Campy parts inventory or least not nearly the same as Shimano parts.


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

*I'm starting not to feel so bad after all.*

I'd say the vast majority of my bad LBS experiences aren't about me, it's about the poor service I recieved while going there, and reflecting the attitude I was given. I guess human nature _is_ highly predictable.:wink: 

And I'd venture to say that owning Campy is gonna make a bad situation 10Xs worse. Telling someone they need something replaced requires a whole lot less thought as opposed to figuring out how to _repair_ something. And typically, the "S" is more known for having _replacable_ components as opposed to having any kind of _parts catalogue_. You've got someone behind the counter whose been conditioned into telling you everything wrong needs to _replaced_ instead of _repaired_,--and I'm pretty sure most people who've made it to this thread have experienced _that_ scenario-- then all hell breaks loose when you try to turn that thinking on its head.

Perhaps LBS could start by focusing on bringing in people who just _love bikes_. I guess the irony of that is that most of the people who do love bike avoid and/or have been pushed away from LBSs. LOL


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

J24 said:


> I get the same treatment, and I get the idea that the problem might be more with the wholesaler/distributors and their not wanting to carry Campy parts inventory or least not nearly the same as Shimano parts.


How is it that there isn't a wholesaler out there in America that can carry these parts? It seems as though there is a demand if nobody out there is carrying it. Does Campy make it too difficult?

I have found that it is pretty difficult to get components in the US from other Italian companies. A couple examples are WR Compositi, Michie, Ambrosio, and Gipiemme. I know there are even more of them out there because I was looking at almost all of them when I was trying to get some Italian parts for my C50. It is utterly impossible. If I wasn't so busy with my life right now, I would seriously think about importing all this stuff and being the Italian parts go to guy for the US with one heck of a website to order the stuff from. It is just crazy that nobody out there wants to do it, and that the manufacturers do not try to market to the US.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

fabsroman said:


> How is it that there isn't a wholesaler out there in America that can carry these parts? It seems as though there is a demand if nobody out there is carrying it. Does Campy make it too difficult?



To a degree, yes. Getting anything Campy has (for an LBS) been a massive PITA lately. 

Ochsner is the primary distributor for Campy small parts. They also repair Campy shifters for shops who don't/can't do it themselves. The problem is, not many shops deal with Ochsner, since they ONLY carry Campy.

(Yes, we have an Ochsner account.)


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## J24 (Oct 8, 2003)

PlatyPius said:


> The problem is, not many shops deal with Ochsner, since they ONLY carry Campy.
> 
> (Yes, we have an Ochsner account.)


How hard is it to get an account with a distributor like Ochsner. Even if a shop has to pay COD for the order I expect them to make the effort since its not unusual to ask a customer to make a deposit to cover it.

Around here shops act like I'm wasting thier time asking them to order anything that cost less than $200. The way I see it you want me to buy big ticket stuff in your shop then you better take care of my $50-$200 business, otherwise I'll go down the road even if its an hour or 2 drive and I've done it.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

PlatyPius said:


> To a degree, yes. Getting anything Campy has (for an LBS) been a massive PITA lately.
> 
> Ochsner is the primary distributor for Campy small parts. They also repair Campy shifters for shops who don't/can't do it themselves. The problem is, not many shops deal with Ochsner, since they ONLY carry Campy.
> 
> (Yes, we have an Ochsner account.)


Ochsner is where I got the pad holder nut and chainring bolts. They have a lot of the Campy parts, but not all of them. They are pretty good about filling orders over the web too, but I haven't needed anything from them for over a year now. That is what bugs the crap out of me. How hard would it have been for my LBS, that is a Colnago dealer and supposedly a pro shop, to order that pad holder nut. Heck, I wouldn't have cared if they wanted the money up front. When I didn't get the call back, that is when I found Ochsner.


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## ti-triodes (Aug 14, 2006)

I originally got into Campy when my LBS told me I couldn't repair some S part, I would have to replace it. As someone who loves to work on things, this seemed insane to me. I fell in LOVE with Campy when I saw the quality of the parts--the fit and finish is an absolute work of art. I still get a woodie when I look at polish of my old Record cranks! :blush2: I also love the way the parts work and feel when I'm riding.


I decided to do all of my wrenching when I switched to Campy. It wasn't because I couldn't get Campy parts, many shops here in the NYC area stock it. It was because I had to work my way through the posers, snobs and *experts* in the bike stores who made me feel like a was an idiot if I asked a question. To top it off, many times I got some work done, it was done wrong- or shoddy. As a perfectionist who loves to work on things, this drove me mad.


So for minor things i will go to my LBS, but for major stuff I go online. And for Campy, I buy from England.


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

*Amen!!*



ti-triodes said:


> It wasn't because I couldn't get Campy parts, many shops here in the NYC area stock it. It was because I had to work my way through the posers, snobs and *experts* in the bike stores who made me feel like a was an idiot if I asked a question.


That's pretty much been my experience w/ _a certain LBS_ here in Brooklyn. My last experience w/ them was my _LAST_. I'm at the point w/ them it doesn't matter if they have enought spares to rebuild my gruppo piece-by-piece. Why would I go from a shop that's Campy-clueless to walk into that?! It's really sad it has to be like that. I don't wanna get the 3rd degree over a set of brake pads or other small bits & peices.

Oh, well. At least there's a new LBS in my neighborhood. they don't exactly keep a catalogue of Campy spares, but they're awesome. I've been having issues w/ my 09 Centuar Shifters mating w/ older 10speed stuff, they tried adjusting it, looked @ it upside-down-and-backwards and was honest w/ me about the whole situation. Also if I need any spares, they're more than on it doing their best to order whatever I need.


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## ti-triodes (Aug 14, 2006)

jpdigital said:


> That's pretty much been my experience w/ _a certain LBS_ here in Brooklyn. My last experience w/ them was my _LAST_. I'm at the point w/ them it doesn't matter if they have enought spares to rebuild my gruppo piece-by-piece. Why would I go from a shop that's Campy-clueless to walk into that?! It's really sad it has to be like that. I don't wanna get the 3rd degree over a set of brake pads or other small bits & peices.
> 
> Oh, well. At least there's a new LBS in my neighborhood. they don't exactly keep a catalogue of Campy spares, but they're awesome. I've been having issues w/ my 09 Centuar Shifters mating w/ older 10speed stuff, they tried adjusting it, looked @ it upside-down-and-backwards and was honest w/ me about the whole situation. Also if I need any spares, they're more than on it doing their best to order whatever I need.



I know the store in Brooklyn you're talking about. I went there once-- that was more than enough. They acted like every customer in the store was an idiot. Who needs that crap?

Good you found a helpful shop. Unfortunately they're the exception, not the rule around here.

What's the problem with the shifters? I changed over two of my bikes with 09 Centaur with absolutely no problems.


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

when cyclists talk they discuss the merits and demerits of parts and gruppos; when us Campagnolo snobs talk, we discuss prices.


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

There is another thread in the Campy section explaining issues & possible fixes. Long story short: I've progressively went from so-so shifting to friction shifting. It seems like a perfect storm of:
a weak rd spring
+cable friction
+cable rubbing on shifter housing
+cable head rubbing against shifter body. 

I swear I've had every one of those issues in any combination on the setup.

When it got to the point when I was at my wits end, I didn't even bother going to _the other shop_, but I tried the "New Shop in Town", even though they weren't quite sure what the entire issue was. They were up front w/ me, listened, respected that I usually do _my own_ repairs, and took reasonable care to address it. They couldn't fix it, but they were honest about it and didn't try to BS me or tell me "my bike's not working because _I'm_ incompetent". And you know what, they now have my business. I think I finally fixed the problem tonight BTW. In fact, as I've been researching and tinkering, I've been letting them know what I've been learning along the way, and guess what: _*they've actually listened to my input & appreciated me sharing what I've learned w/them.*_


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

David Loving said:


> when cyclists talk they discuss the merits and demerits of parts and gruppos; when us Campagnolo snobs talk, we discuss prices.



Very true, actually.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

David Loving said:


> when cyclists talk they discuss the merits and demerits of parts and gruppos; when us Campagnolo snobs talk, we discuss prices.


Exactly, because we already know the merits (i.e., Campagnolo is da bomb).


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

fabsroman said:


> Ochsner is where I got the pad holder nut and chainring bolts. They have a lot of the Campy parts, but not all of them. They are pretty good about filling orders over the web too, but I haven't needed anything from them for over a year now. That is what bugs the crap out of me. How hard would it have been for my LBS, that is a Colnago dealer and supposedly a pro shop, to order that pad holder nut. Heck, I wouldn't have cared if they wanted the money up front. When I didn't get the call back, that is when I found Ochsner.


Ochsner's stock on Campy small parts is slowly running out. Lucky for our customers, I'm a packrat. There have been many times that I've sold stuff out of my personal stash that someone needed. If Ochsner doesn't have it, it's likely that Campy doesn't make it any longer. Before I tell a customer that I can't get a part though, I'll look on eBay. If I find it on eBay, I'll send the customer a link to the auction. No one should have to replace an entire unit (shifter, brake caliper, or whatever) because of one little part.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

jpdigital said:


> I've been letting them know what I've been learning along the way, and guess what: _*they've actually listened to my input & appreciated me sharing what I've learned w/them.*_


I love it when customers do this. I can't have worked on every bike component ever made, so I'm always ready to listen to "war stories" about repairs, tricks, shortcuts, etc.


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## JacksonDodge (Mar 26, 2006)

J24 said:


> Around here shops act like I'm wasting thier time asking them to order anything that cost less than $200. The way I see it you want me to buy big ticket stuff in your shop then you better take care of my $50-$200 business, otherwise I'll go down the road even if its an hour or 2 drive and I've done it.



Generally speaking, distributors have minimum order amounts that make ordering small parts/any parts piecemeal a giant PITA.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

JacksonDodge said:


> Generally speaking, distributors have minimum order amounts that make ordering small parts/any parts piecemeal a giant PITA.


Ochsner's minimum order is $100. Anything less than that, and they charge you $10.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

PlatyPius said:


> Ochsner's minimum order is $100. Anything less than that, and they charge you $10.


I think I remember that. However, when buying a part for a set of Campy Record D skeleton brakes or a Record UT Crankset, that extra $10 doesn't seem as significant as the cost of an entirely new crankset or brakeset.


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## JacksonDodge (Mar 26, 2006)

PlatyPius said:


> Ochsner's minimum order is $100. Anything less than that, and they charge you $10.


Aye. I try to always make the minimum. It's not very hard given that I've got a serious stock of small parts in my toolbox.

It happens sometimes but I try to avoid it at all costs.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

JacksonDodge said:


> Aye. I try to always make the minimum. It's not very hard given that I've got a serious stock of small parts in my toolbox.
> 
> It happens sometimes but I try to avoid it at all costs.


Considering their spoke blowout prices lately, I haven't had any trouble going over $100. I think I have enough spokes to build up 4 or 5 more 650B wheelsets. Oh, and I bought a NOS Campy 6 speed skewer, just because it was cool.


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## cbuchanan (Mar 6, 2006)

When I worked in a shop my bikes were Shimano equipped for the first few years and I honestly didn't care to change anything about that. The boss was a "Campy-Snob" and was constantly bragging about how superior his Campy was and I just let it go in one ear and out the other. At the time I saw nothing wrong with my Shimano Ultegra parts. Then the day arrived that the boss brought his bike to work and told me to take it for a spin. In all honesty, I did it just to shut him up. I was eating crow after that short ride when I saw the light and haven't owned a Shimano road bike since. I have bike equipped with Record, Chorus, and Centaur with no complaints about any of them. You don't really know how good it is until you have tasted it when it comes to Campy. 

Thankfully I can still get any Campy parts that I may need from that shop since the boss is Campy crazy. I'll take the maintenance and rebuild of a Campy part over the toss-and-replace of Shimano any day. If that makes me a "Campy-Snob" then so be it. 

As for the OP's question concerning the perceived snobbery, I would say that it is a bit of both. Anti-Campy people don;t know what they are missing but, some Campy nuts go a little far. It's best just to smile and ride.


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

cbuchanan said:


> As for the OP's question concerning the perceived snobbery, I would say that it is a bit of both. Anti-Campy people don;t know what they are missing but, some Campy nuts go a little far. It's best just to smile and ride.


Well said.


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## Karbon Kev (Sep 7, 2009)

Shiny bikes for £749 Lickbikes £717, by the time you add shipping could be shiny is a better deal. hope this helps.

http://www.shinybikes.com/product.php?productid=17754


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## vets1173 (Jul 30, 2009)

OK, I am pretty new to cycling so I am trying to learn about the different bikes/groups/etc.

From reading this thread it seems that many of you feel that Campy is simply superior to other groups. If this is the case, why are the top pro's not using it more? Top 3 in the Tour de France were all riding SRAM Red.

I have never ridden Campy so I don't know much about it, but I have ridden SRAM Red, Dura Ace, Ultegra, and 105s. I really like the Red out of those. What would Campy give me above the Red group?


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## Karbon Kev (Sep 7, 2009)

Professional riders use what they are given, whatever that might be, or whoever sponsors them. 

Campagnolo make the best quality groupsets. Period.


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

vets1173 said:


> OK, I am pretty new to cycling so I am trying to learn about the different bikes/groups/etc.
> 
> From reading this thread it seems that many of you feel that Campy is simply superior to other groups. If this is the case, why are the top pro's not using it more? Top 3 in the Tour de France were all riding SRAM Red.
> 
> I have never ridden Campy so I don't know much about it, but I have ridden SRAM Red, Dura Ace, Ultegra, and 105s. I really like the Red out of those. What would Campy give me above the Red group?



As far as what pros use, most of it comes down to what the team gives them. What the teams get depends on how much $$$ the manufacturers throw at them to use/showcase their products. So beleive it or not, most of what the pros use isn't necessarily what they chose to use.

One major advantage to using Campag is if something goes wrong, you're not gonna have to buy the entire component, they have an extensive spare parts catalogue to replace what needs replacing and nothing more. Shimano is notorious for having to fix a "small-part-fix" by replacing _the entire component_. With components like shifters & rear derailleurs it's easy to see how expensive and wasteful this gets.

As far as what Campy gives above Red-- well, my joke is that the only thing Campy people & Shimano people can agree on is SRAM:wink: . SRAM stuff IMO is pretty innovative, I've ridden it (albeit not very much, honestly), and I like it. But beyond that, I'm not familiar with all the technical aspects of SRAM to make any legitamate comparison.


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## vets1173 (Jul 30, 2009)

Karbon Kev said:


> Professional riders use what they are given, whatever that might be, or whoever sponsors them.
> 
> Campagnolo make the best quality groupsets. Period.



So you are saying that the top pros are using inferior components to some lesser teams? Maybe they should just ride Huffy bikes if they can win with inferior equipment.

And really I am hoping for more of a comparison of the Red/Campy, not just "Campy is the best".


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## vets1173 (Jul 30, 2009)

jpdigital said:


> As far as what pros use, most of it comes down to what the team gives them. What the teams get depends on how much $$$ the manufacturers throw at them to use/showcase their products. So beleive it or not, most of what the pros use isn't necessarily what they chose to use.
> 
> One major advantage to using Campag is if something goes wrong, you're not gonna have to buy the entire component, they have an extensive spare parts catalogue to replace what needs replacing and nothing more. Shimano is notorious for having to fix a "small-part-fix" by replacing _the entire component_. With components like shifters & rear derailleurs it's easy to see how expensive and wasteful this gets.
> 
> As far as what Campy gives above Red-- well, my joke is that the only thing Campy people & Shimano people can agree on is SRAM:wink: . SRAM stuff IMO is pretty innovative, I've ridden it (albeit not very much, honestly), and I like it. But beyond that, I'm not familiar with all the technical aspects of SRAM to make any legitamate comparison.



Thanks...I would really like to put a few miles on a Campy bike....but I don't know anyone using it and the LBS in the area (that I have been to) don't have any bikes with Campy installed to test.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

vets1173 said:


> So you are saying that the top pros are using inferior components to some lesser teams? Maybe they should just ride Huffy bikes if they can win with inferior equipment.
> 
> And really I am hoping for more of a comparison of the Red/Campy, not just "Campy is the best".


What he is saying is that the pros are riding whatever components provided to them by component manufacturers that help pay their salary. They are earning a living at this, and the majority of them will not be on the podium ever. They provide shelter, clothing, and food for their families by racing a bike. The money for their salaries comes from the sponsors. Do you think a bike sponsor or component sponsor just gives the team the frames or components. Liquigas switched from Bianchi to Cannondale because Cannondale was willing to provide the team with millions of dollars in cash to support the team, a portion of which would probably go to salaries.

Did you know that some pros are used almost as guinea pigs on new components that have not been completely tested on the road?

If I remember correctly, Lemond was riding a Huffy at some point in his career back in the 80's, but I'm not completely sure about it. Did a Google search. Turned out to be a Serotta badged as a Huffy:

http://forums.bicycling.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/692104717/m/3741009626


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## Karbon Kev (Sep 7, 2009)

Look for gods sake, Sram have been on the market for such a short time, can't seen them lasting anywhere as long as Campagnolo. They have been going 75 years +. Have you ridden Campag? No of course you haven't, stands to reason you haven't a clue what I'm talking about.


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

vets1173 said:


> So you are saying that the top pros are using inferior components to some lesser teams? Maybe they should just ride Huffy bikes if they can win with inferior equipment.


In some cases, yes. I'd say pros are forced to use _slightly inferior_ equipment, or equipment they might not be as comfortable using as something they may have had more choice in. Riding a Huffy is a bit of a stretch, but hey!! didn/t the 7-Eleven squad ride Huffy back in the day!?  

I think as far as equipment goes in top-level racing, it's a matter of using different techniques/methods to obtain a similar objective. Take clipless pedals, for example. There's a veriety of actuation/engagment systems, but they all try to accomplish the same thing: securly connect the shoe to the pedal.

As for the Red/Campy comparison, I would say if you leaned toward SRAM when comparing to Shimano, you'd probably lean toward Campy over Shimano. You owe it to yourself to try Campy, as the shifting will feel similar to what you had w/ SRAM. The one thing I like about Campy's new shifters (and remember, this is just _an opinion_), is that the ergonomics are _by far the most comfortable I've ever used. Period._ And I've used Shimano 9speed; Shimano 10speed; SRAM; Campy Ergopower (the previous shape); and now Campy UltraShift (09 and later). No, they don't look the best, but they _feel the best._


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## meat (Aug 10, 2006)

Relax. Look at the ownership of SRAM and their market share. Except for the Campophiles no one is picking up a new bike with out SRAM or Shimano components. Campagnolo lost their market share on new bikes in the 80's, and it is not coming back.


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## vets1173 (Jul 30, 2009)

Karbon Kev said:


> Look for gods sake, Sram have been on the market for such a short time, can't seen them lasting anywhere as long as Campagnolo. They have been going 75 years +. Have you ridden Campag? No of course you haven't, stands to reason you haven't a clue what I'm talking about.



You are right...I haven't. That's why I am asking some who have. I am hoping to get some quality opinions from a few people who have ridden Campy as well as SRAM or Shimano.

No reason to get so defensive!


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## ti-triodes (Aug 14, 2006)

meat said:


> Relax. Look at the ownership of SRAM and their market share. Except for the Campophiles no one is picking up a new bike with out SRAM or Shimano components. Campagnolo lost their market share on new bikes in the 80's, and it is not coming back.




If you look at the way Campy does business, it doesn't seem to bother them that much.

OTOH, they are alot more popular in Europe. You have to search hard to get anything below Chorus here in the States. In Europe I saw alot of people using lower end Campy groups.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

I'm a Campy guy through and through, but that doesn't mean I believe Shimano or SRAM are abjectly inferior. And in any event, if you're on a top-flight professional squad, it's rare that a malfunctioning component will cause you grief because the team car will be at your side within a few seconds to give you a replacement bicycle. Yes, every once in a while, a chain will break or a hub will destroy itself -- causing a top rider to go down. But it doesn't happen often.


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

*Here's what I CAN compare...*

Since you're looking @ a Campy thread, most posts are automatically going to be pro-Campy (sorry)  . But I'm sure when you check the Shimano & SRAM threads they'll be praising what they ride to high-heaven. So I'll try my best to give a unbiased opinion. Have a little faith in me.... 

Shimano's previous generation shifters (before the change to the cables running under the handlebar tape). They really weren't all that bad, but the shifting felt a little vanilla, I guess. The shifters felt bulky to me, and really hard at the contact points, like I was grabbing an animal bone. Campy, in comparison had shifters that just seemed to be disigned to fit into a human hand first & foremost, as opposed to primarily being designed to house all the indexing mechanicals. Another thing I liked right away with Campy was the nice positive _"clunk"_ you get when shifting, not too far off from what SRAM feels like. I guess I'd describe Shimano's shifting as feeling like shifting a manual transmission Toyota; Campy feels like shifting a manual transmission BMW.

In all honesty, the previous Campy shifters (Ergopower), would numb my hands if kept it in the same position for a loooong time, but to me it was still a lot better than Shimano's setup. SRAM's shifters are somewhat similar to the Ergopower, but a bit too much bulkier and too rigid in the hands.

I've posted all over the place that out of all the shifters I've used/tested/played with, the new Campy UltraShift setup is _by far the most comfortable shifters I've ever used._

As far as the braking, you'll read around elsewhere that Shimano may have more powerful braking, but Campy has a much higher degree of modulation. In emergency braking, Shimano can be an all-or-nothing deal, and you'll never know how close to the edge you are of locking up the brakes until it's too late, whereas Campy has better feedback when heavy on the brakes.

Another thing that turned me on to Campy was the Ultra-Torque Crank. It's a system that is much easier for a DIYer to install & uninstall, and it's STIFF!!!

Again, just an opinion, but I'd describe Shimano/SRAM as being engineered, Campangolo is _crafted._

You may want to read around and see what the SRAMheads have to say as well.


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## BryanSayer (Sep 22, 2009)

*shifting*



vets1173 said:


> And really I am hoping for more of a comparison of the Red/Campy, not just "Campy is the best".


In case no one else has pointed this out, the actual shifting varies between Campy/SRAM/Shimano.

Campy is the only one that allows multiple jumps in a single motion. SRAM uses a double tap, Shimano uses two levers.

Which one you like is a personal preference. I like the "mouse ears" on Campy, and I really like being able to shove that ear down when I come over the top of a hill.


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## nenad (May 5, 2004)

Mapei said:


> I'm a Campy guy through and through, but that doesn't mean I believe Shimano or SRAM are abjectly inferior. And in any event, if you're on a top-flight professional squad, it's rare that a malfunctioning component will cause you grief because the team car will be at your side within a few seconds to give you a replacement bicycle. Yes, every once in a while, a chain will break or a hub will destroy itself -- causing a top rider to go down. But it doesn't happen often.


But it happened to David Millar at Giro last year at the decisive moment in the stage where he looked strongest to win it, and boy was he pissed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIW1MAvyPD4

Just saying...


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