# New Jersey hills 2009



## Ken Roberts

Finally made it up Fiddlers first time this year - (accompanied part of the way by two little dogs yapping).

Started by parking over near Asbury and "warming up" on Ludlow Station + Iron Bridge - (both roads in good shape, except Ludlow had a little mud flowed onto it from the side in the midst of the steep section). 
But those climbs are steep enough so that I first did some "warmups for the warmups" nearby on Buttermilk Bridge (climbed both sides, some erosion of the road surface) and also the county road next west from Buttermilk (better surface, more sustained climbing than Buttermilk, also more motor traffic).

Three laps of Roxburg Hill and Fiddlers Elbow -- so I felt rewarded for having backed off last week when I felt a funny pain during warmup and did not try it even once. Did lots of pedaling standing (not my usual style on lesser hills). After surviving the first time, I went a little faster the second time, and the third time I tried to go even harder standing pedaling up the "wall" -- and pulled my right foot out of the pedal.

Surface in good shape, though the asphalt tends have coarser stone in the steeper sections -- more rolling resistance, requires more strength, just what we want from a great test-piece (Right?)

*animals*: 

* deer standing off road on Buttermilk Bridge

* full-grown fox in the middle of the road in a steep section of Iron Bridge -- (So then a woman driving an SUV pulls alongside while I'm sweating climbing thru the steeps and doing my best to just stay in control -- and tells me she thinks the fox is sick, has been acting strange).

* two little dogs at the base of the "wall" on Fiddlers Elbow. Came out to yap at me all three times climbing up. No contact with me, no biting, no running in front of my wheel - (maybe in future workous on Fiddlers I will come to think of them as like some of the over-eager fans along the roads of the Tour de France.)
This could be a good reason not to ride _down_ Fiddlers, since one of those dogs getting under a wheel could easily take you down. Or at least climb up it first, in hope of getting a better idea of where those dogs are most likely to come onto the road. (And those are not the only dogs I have ever seen loose on the main Fiddlers hill, though I haven't seen others out recently.)

Ken


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## merckxman

So, after warming up on Buttermilk and then climbing Ludlow AND Iron Bridge you rode to harmony and did Fidler's 3 times? If I understood correctly all I can say are a very strong and one hell of a climber. 



Ken Roberts said:


> Finally made it up Fiddlers first time this year - (accompanied part of the way by two little dogs yapping).
> 
> Started by parking over near Asbury and "warming up" on Ludlow Station + Iron Bridge - (both roads in good shape, except Ludlow had a little mud flowed onto it from the side in the midst of the steep section).
> But those climbs are steep enough so that I first did some "warmups for the warmups" nearby on Buttermilk Bridge (climbed both sides, some erosion of the road surface) and also the county road next west from Buttermilk (better surface, more sustained climbing than Buttermilk, also more motor traffic).
> 
> Three laps of Roxburg Hill and Fiddlers Elbow -- so I felt rewarded for having backed off last week when I felt a funny pain during warmup and did not try it even once. Did lots of pedaling standing (not my usual style on lesser hills). After surviving the first time, I went a little faster the second time, and the third time I tried to go even harder standing pedaling up the "wall" -- and pulled my right foot out of the pedal.
> 
> Surface in good shape, though the asphalt tends have coarser stone in the steeper sections -- more rolling resistance, requires more strength, just what we want from a great test-piece (Right?)
> 
> *animals*:
> 
> * deer standing off road on Buttermilk Bridge
> 
> * full-grown fox in the middle of the road in a steep section of Iron Bridge -- (So then a woman driving an SUV pulls alongside while I'm sweating climbing thru the steeps and doing my best to just stay in control -- and tells me she thinks the fox is sick, has been acting strange).
> 
> * two little dogs at the base of the "wall" on Fiddlers Elbow. Came out to yap at me all three times climbing up. No contact with me, no biting, no running in front of my wheel - (maybe in future workous on Fiddlers I will come to think of them as like some of the over-eager fans along the roads of the Tour de France.)
> This could be a good reason not to ride _down_ Fiddlers, since one of those dogs getting under a wheel could easily take you down. Or at least climb up it first, in hope of getting a better idea of where those dogs are most likely to come onto the road. (And those are not the only dogs I have ever seen loose on the main Fiddlers hill, though I haven't seen others out recently.)
> 
> Ken


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## Ken Roberts

Thanks, but actually I think it's just that I've gotten very good at climbing _slow_.

I've just practiced lots pedaling at a very low cadence, like 32 rpm.

I don't think it's about overall strong riding, just lots of focus on one special kind -- and patience.

Whenever I meet other riders on a serious climb, they're faster than me. Well, one time out of ten maybe, I actually find someone on a hill who's slower than me. And I do like that.

Ken


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## NJcycler

Ken Roberts said:


> Thanks, but actually I think it's just that I've gotten very good at climbing _slow_.
> 
> I've just practiced lots pedaling at a very low cadence, like 32 rpm.
> 
> I don't think it's about overall strong riding, just lots of focus on one special kind -- and patience.
> 
> Whenever I meet other riders on a serious climb, they're faster than me. Well, one time out of ten maybe, I actually find someone on a hill who's slower than me. And I do like that.
> 
> Ken


That is one thing in climbing i do not have is patience. i buzz up the climb as fast as i can to get it over with. good tip on riding them slow. it most likely will reduce the pain factor.


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## Ken Roberts

NJcycler said:


> That is one thing in climbing i do not have is patience. i buzz up the climb as fast as i can to get it over with.


I suspect that's because it's more fun to climb hard and "conquer" the hill. And for racing (and lots of group riding) it's important to be able to ride stronger up a hill, so you don't get dropped and lose the drafting advantage on gentle sections that follow.



> Good tip on riding them slow


I'm pretty convinced that there's not much advantage in _consciously thinking_ about riding slow. What really matters is: 
(a) the unconscious neuro-muscular control module in your brain gets comfortable with _feeling_ and handling slow pushing up a steep hill; 
(b) it learns new balance + recovery moves for slowness; 
(c) your muscles develop specific fibers to enable them to pedal slower.

So the main thing your conscious mind can do is to put your unconscious neural controller and your muscles into safe _practice situations_ where they can develop better to handle slowness.



> it most likely will reduce the pain factor.


Not necessarily.
The fundamental problem with pedaling slower up a steep hill is that the mass of my body and my bike slow down more during the "dead spot" in the pedaling cycle -- because there's a little more time spent in the "dead spot" phase. So just after each "dead spot", for an instant my muscles are required to push with higher force intensity, to get my mass moving up the hill again at a reasonable speed. (Higher force intensity in that instant than if I were pedaling up the same hill in the same gear at a higher cadence frequency).

HIgher peak force intensity tends to engage "Fast Glycolytive" muscle fibers, which generate their power only anaerobically (and they tend to run out of locally-stored carbohydrate fuel), so if I require those fibers to keep doing that up a long hill, then they become depleted and obstructed by anaerobic products - - > pain.
And it takes those fibers like hours to "recharge", so they're not going to be able to help much on the _next_ steep hill that same day.

So I need to develop (1) my unconscious neuro-muscular control module so that it learns not to fire those muscle fibers during my low-frequency pedaling; and (2) my muscles to develop more and stronger "Slow Oxidative" fibers, so muscles can deliver the higher force intensity without needing the assistance of anaerobic FG fibers.

The drawback of that training approach is that the specialized development for slow-frequency pedaling up steep hills isn't good for much else in bicycling.

So then why do I do it that way?
First because when Sharon + I ride on our tandem, she likes doing long hilly rides, and we always end up pedaling slow up hills. Second because getting strong at lower-frequency leg-pushes is good training for my winter sport. 
I actually own a bike with lower gearing which would make it easier to handle steep hills, but I don't use it.

Ken


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## NJcycler

*Glenwood Mountain Road*

Did a 54 mile loop today and hit the western side of Glenwood Mountain Road. Really enjoyed the climb. I didn't see one car going my direction. The eastern side looks easier because it is so much shorter. Hit some nice speed on the downhill. Reward for the climb. Then headed Rt 565 towards Sussex. Just a pretty area. Funny how easy the hills on 565 were after Glenwood.
http://www.mapmyride.com/route/us/nj/sparta/664124681686614984


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## Ken Roberts

Yes, the usual quietness of Glenwood Mt Rd up in Sussex county is in impt part of what gets me back there again. And the descent of the east side.
I wish the west side were more interesting, but it has enough variety in steepness to do it for me.

Ken


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## Ken Roberts

*brake redundancy going down steep hills*

I ride down lots of steep hills, so I got thinking, What would happen to me if my front brake cable broke?

So I tried riding down steeper hills, testing to see if only my rear brake could stop me.

Valley Dr, then Warrenville Rd on one day (with dry road surface).
Worked OK, rear brake only not as fast as front brake only (which I also tried). Warrenville (sections around 13% grade) took some getting used to with that grooved surface now this year, but I could make four hard stops with my rear brake.(first time I've seen a deer on Valley Dr -- too bad because I'd wish to feel free to take that descent faster)​Then out west in the Mt Musconetcong + Montana area on a dry day:
Ludlow Station Rd + Iron Bridge Rd (sections 15-16%) 
Fiddlers Elbow (section over 20% grade)
Again I could make multiple hard stops using my rear brake only, and again definitely not as quick a stop as with my front brake.

When I go down a steep hill, I usually move my hips back behind the seat, so I can make a sudden hard stop with my front brake without getting thrown forward. And I guess having my weight back over the rear wheel also helps in stops with my rear brake.

I think doing focused practice with each single brake helped improve my confidence and feel for hard braking.

Now that I've tested the redundancy of my brakes, I'm back to thinking that the big risk to worry about (on a dry day) is unexpected moves by deer, dogs, groundhogs. 

Ken


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## Ken Roberts

*Sussex county old + new*

I tried some different climbs in Sussex county: Holland Mountain Rd (south of Stockholm) and Crigger Rd (west of Beemerville). Both had interesting variations in steepness, and made me wish they were overall longer. I'd do one of them again if it was near some other good steep climbs, but it's not.

Breakneck -- the "full" climb has gotten a little taller with new paving on the side roads at the top. I finished with Right on Tahama, Right on Abricada, Right on Accomac and a last Left to the top of the asphalt. I do love the main climb -- sustained yet varying, intimidating in steepness around curves + motor traffic. I did it three times.

Bears on the Hidden Valley climb (ski resort by Breakneck Rd + Vernon) -- three of them crossed the road ahead of me while I was climbing. I stopped and waited. The two smaller ones did a little wrestling match in the middle of the road, then finished crossing, and one climbed a tree next to the road. I rode past them. Didn't see them when I was coming back down.

Kain Rd (up in New York off rt 17A) -- Lots of fresh gravel. Good for our long-term riding, but I decided to wait at least a month before trying it this year.
I think it's an "honorary" New Jersey climb. Since it's steepness is in the same league with the great NJ climbs, and the steep climbs near to it are in New Jersey.

Ken


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## NJcycler

*holland mountain*

Ken,
I see you did Holland Mountain and updated your web site numbers. Glad to see my cycling computer is not that far off from your numbers. good to know. Holland Mountain is part of a few loops I do so depending on where I go there are other climbs out along the way. all my rides start at my house and end at my house.  
I can do Glen Road to Holland Mountain. Up Rt 515 over to Lounsberry Hollow to Glenwood Mountain. Combine them all and you have a very nice loop.


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## Ken Roberts

Yes that's a nice set of hills if you have it so convenient that you can ride it from you house.

But if you're going to drive to Sussex county from somewhere else, then I think you get you get a much higher percentage of steep climbing sections for the distance ridden, by cutting out Holland Mountain Rd, and doing something more like on this 
map of steep hills around Vernon

Ken


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## Ken Roberts

beyond "Hiller Than" -- I rode a longer sequence of steep climbs in west NJ around Washington + Phillipsburg.

There's lots more info and links to some 
detailed route maps on Bikely.com which could be used to generate GPS tracks and cue sheets.

It includes more _steep_ climbing (in sections averaging over 12% grade) than I've done before: about 6000 vertical feet. I haven't heard of any other place in the world where I could do this much climbing over 12% grade, on public asphalt roads, without repeating any uphill section.

The total climbing (including less steep) was about 15400 vertical feet, more than I've ever done before (? or ever again ?). It includes 7 out of the 10 toughest climbs in New Jersey (or 14 out of 21). That sequence has so much more steep climbing than the Hillier Than Thou event that I'm calling it "Beyond Hillier Than".

The route maps can also be used to make shorter sequences of climbs, totalling like 10500 feet or 13000 vertical feet. 

The riding is not only challenging, but also varied and pretty and interesting, with much on quiet roads. Even if I never again do all of at once, I'll be doing lots of parts of it.

Ken


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## thegock

*Hillier*

Ken,


Are you doing Hillier on August 23rd? I think there were 230 riders last year but may be more this year. Certainly the toughest century in NJ.:cryin: 

I was descending Valley Drive on Wednesday and I saw a doe and two fawns on the left just past the stream on the bottom. I had done 10 repeats there last week which was my first set of hill repeats in preparation for the time trial. I like my chances better with a deer than a dump truck, which is what was coming up at the last left hand bend during some pre-Hillier repeats last year.

Hope to see you there.


The


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## Ken Roberts

You're likely right that it's the toughest organized century event in NJ. And it's great that it _promotes_ its hilliness, and usually includes a two or three of the best steepest hills in the state. And the less hilly sections usually go thru some of the prettiest farmland terrain in NJ.

But don't they publicly post the finishing times of the participants? I can live with the idea of most of the riders blowing past me on the first climb. What I find harder to handle is the greater number of non-participants lounging in front of their browser screens and seeing my time and saying, "I know Ken said he was slow, but I never guessed he was _that_ slow."And it doesn't make sense for _me_ to do it "just to finish", because I already rode my non-organized non-event ride which was twice as tough as Hillier Than Thou.​Also I assume it's on a weekend, and I normally ride with Sharon on the weekends, and she's not up for hills that tough.

You have fun (or whatever it is you want to get from taking on steep challenges) at Hillier Than Thou.

Ken


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## thegock

*New Hill!*

Ken,


Just found some new hills yesterday. Riding south on 202 before Far Hills, we went right on Lake Rd past Ravine Lake. At the end, instead of going left toward CocoLuxe in Gladstone we turned right on Campbell and continued on Clark to the top. 

Next time I am out there, I want to try to substitute Peachcroft for Clark because it looks steeper on the map.

It might go up for about two miles and has a ‘stair step’ character with repeated steep :cryin: then flattish sections. The total vertical feet ascended is 480 per njbikemap.com, which is quite good for central NJ and I would compare it favorably with Warrenville Rd. as a climb due to lack of traffic, two acre zoning scenery  and extra vertical feet. You can see it due east of Gladstone center in the upper right quarter of the Gladstone quad on njbikemap.com. Check it out next time you are in the ‘hood.


The


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## Ken Roberts

Yes looks like that area could use a longer climb, and your combination of Campbell + Clark by Ravine Lake has that (with a little dip in the middle). So I put it on my list for Somerset county.
When you get to check out Peachcroft, let me know, and if that seems better I'll put that on the list.

While I had the topo software running, I noticed there's a bunch of other roads in central NJ that might have steeper or longer climbs which I don't know anything about -- in the southwest corner of Morris county sort of around Flanders and Long Valley. I put a note about them under my list of Morris county climbs. 
The steeper ones were Four Bridges Rd and Drakestown Rd -- anybody know anything about those?

Ken


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## Bee-an-key

Campbell to Peachcroft I belive is tougher. Smoother road too. Try Pennbrook (Jacobs Ladder) also. Tough because of the steps make it hard to keep rhythm. The steps were to help horses carrying loads up the hill to rest. Mount Harmony is a good way down, or up for that matter, with a great switch back.


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## AlanE

*Campbell - Clark*

If you're climbing up Campbell & Clark, be sure to make the right turn onto Clark. Staying on Campbell is a dead end that takes you down a 20% grade. Climbing back up is a challenge. Of course, if it's a challenge you want, by all means go for it.


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## Ken Roberts

Toughest climb in Morris county -- found one I hadn't heard of before: 
Four Bridges Rd (north from Bartley Rd which goes southwest from Flanders) - see on map
has 250 vertical feet at steepness around 13-14% (or more)

Seemed pretty quiet road. Near some other climbs . . . connects with Drakestown Rd (2nd toughest in Morris county?) near Tinc + Naughright.
Here's my list for Morris county

Ken


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## AlanE

Check out Mt. Lebanon Road.


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## Ken Roberts

You're right, Mt Lebanon Rd needs to be taken seriously as a candidate. Now I'm not sure . . . Is Mt L only _almost_ as tough? or maybe tougher than Four Bridges? 

Somehow I lost track of the fact that Mt L is in Morris county - (I guess since it's just across the border from Hunterdon county)

Maybe I'll get a chance to measure Mt L more carefully. For now I'll say that it's at least a more interesting climb that Four Bridges.

Ken


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## thegock

Ken Roberts said:


> Yes looks like that area could use a longer climb, and your combination of Campbell + Clark by Ravine Lake has that (with a little dip in the middle). So I put it on my list for Somerset county.
> When you get to check out Peachcroft, let me know, and if that seems better I'll put that on the list.
> 
> 
> 
> Ken


Reporting back as ordered.:aureola: 

I tried the Campbell/Peachcroft combo today instead of Clark. I wasn’t too optimistic because I was riding with the strongest climber from our 50 or so regular and irregular riders and his BFF who is no slouch. Hate being DFL OTB.:cryin: Didn’t help that I had the equivalent of 108 miles in my legs the preceding 24 hours. 

You drop down about 25 feet in the first 150 yards of Peachcroft (the little dip), then the hill kicks up. And it relentlessly keeps going up for about a half a mile-like Warrenville Rd. in that respect. Much better road quality as pointed out by others than Clark and not a single car at 3pm. It seems like a better combo than Campbell/Clark with respect to the quality of the challenge. The housing stock is entertaining on both but Peachcroft is a newer street with more development. At the top, it intersects Clark.

I had descended Pennbrook (aka Jacob’s Ladder) near there about three years ago with a 16 year old mountain biker who flew off each bump about three feet in the air. Makes me queasy thinking about it with the blind curves on that hill. I’d rather climb it, thanks.


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## Ken Roberts

thegock said:


> I tried the Campbell/Peachcroft combo today instead of Clark . . .
> You drop down about 25 feet in the first 150 yards, then the hill kicks up. And it relentlessly keeps going up for about a half a mile-like Warrenville in that respect. Much better road quality as pointed out by others and not a single car at 3pm. It seems like a better combo than Campbell/Clark with respect to the quality of the challenge.


Great -- I just added it to my table for Somerset county.

Ken


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## Ken Roberts

Fiddlers Elbow got fresh gravel in the last couple of weeks -- so you might want to avoid it for a month or so until the car traffic packs it down -- unless you want to add the special challenge of skidding on loose stones to the climb (or imagine it would be even more exciting on descent).
Not sure if it was done before or after the Hillier Than Thou event -- I'm guessing after.​The new stone is pretty coarse (not surprising for such a steep hill) - so I think Fiddlers Elbow will be even harder to climb up for the next few years.

Ken


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## thegock

*Stone was put down in the seven days before 8/23/9*

That made it necessary to climb the Montana ridge up Lommasen's Glen (the back way) as Fiddlers would have been quite challenging to walk up much less spin. 

The substitute climb was quite good at 900vf on three roads. Not as steep as Fiddlers but relentless.


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## NJcycler

*Sussex county hills*

I did a 54 mile loop today that totaled 4763' accent. The most notable climbs were Holland Mountain, Lounsberry Hollow and Glenwood Mountain (East). Lounsberry Hollow is the easiest out of the 3. I have done Glenwood Mountain from the west. The east side is also a respectable, steep climb. 
I hope to do a loop next weekend that includes. Holland Mountain over to Barrett Road, Iron Mountain Road in to Wawayanda. I then want to detour back over to do Curtis Road up Hidden Valley. Then I'll scoot over and do Drew Mountain Road and head home on Rt 565.
Today was a great day. I love good loops that have some steep climbs.


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## goldsbar

Ken Roberts said:


> You're right, Mt Lebanon Rd needs to be taken seriously as a candidate. Now I'm not sure . . . Is Mt L only _almost_ as tough? or maybe tougher than Four Bridges?
> 
> Somehow I lost track of the fact that Mt L is in Morris county - (I guess since it's just across the border from Hunterdon county)
> 
> Maybe I'll get a chance to measure Mt L more carefully. For now I'll say that it's at least a more interesting climb that Four Bridges.
> 
> Ken


I'm fairly certain I've done all of the climbs on your Morris County list. Many multiple times. You're missing one of the hardest (IMHO) - Union Hill Road. I believe it's technically in Denville(?) but is not far from Morris Township/Randolph/Parsippany/Morris Plains borders. Start from Morris Plains on Grannis Ave off of Rt 202. This will eventually become a climb and turn into Old Dover Rd. The road flattens out a bit for a couple of hundred feet after you pass Greystone Psychiatric Hospital. You then have the option of a left up Union Hill Road. Very steep right from the beginning. 200-300 feet vertical total. No Fiddler's but pretty good. If you press the moderate climb on Grannis/Old Dover, you'll really hurt when you hit this.


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## Nielly

NJcycler said:


> I did a 54 mile loop today that totaled 4763' accent. The most notable climbs were Holland Mountain, Lounsberry Hollow and Glenwood Mountain (East). Lounsberry Hollow is the easiest out of the 3. I have done Glenwood Mountain from the west. The east side is also a respectable, steep climb.
> I hope to do a loop next weekend that includes. Holland Mountain over to Barrett Road, Iron Mountain Road in to Wawayanda. I then want to detour back over to do Curtis Road up Hidden Valley. Then I'll scoot over and do Drew Mountain Road and head home on Rt 565.
> Today was a great day. I love good loops that have some steep climbs.


Did a great ride out that way yesterday. We started in Vernon and went out towards Florida, through the "Heart of the Onion" and eventually did the climb up Glenwood (easy side apparently). Nice decent on the way down. Weather was great, alittle wind left over from Wednesday which was real noticable through the onion flats but otherwise perfect. I think we ended at about 50 miles and 4400 ft overall.


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## nickt30

*Skyline dr from the ringwood side*

This hill is long and hard. The front side from oakland is about .7 miles with about 700vertical feet. The back side from ringwood is longer and more drawn out. Either way is a great climb.

Also valhalla dr from montville to kinnelon, long hard climb, almost never ends if you include a few short down hill rollers towards the top.


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## Nielly

nickt30 said:


> This hill is long and hard. The front side from oakland is about .7 miles with about 700vertical feet. The back side from ringwood is longer and more drawn out. Either way is a great climb.
> 
> Also valhalla dr from montville to kinnelon, long hard climb, almost never ends if you include a few short down hill rollers towards the top.


I haven't been on it lately but my understanding is that they've milled sections of Skyline drive to slow the cars down. I can't imagine it would be any good on a bike.


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## Ken Roberts

Nielly said:


> I haven't been on it lately but my understanding is that they've milled sections of Skyline drive to slow the cars down. I can't imagine it would be any good on a bike.


on Warrenville Rd they milled only the _downhill_ side. So climbing up is the same as ever: steep and steeper, with lots of cars passing next to me to keep me fully focused on pedaling straight up the hill. It used to be one of my favorite downhills, no longer -- but my skills on milled asphalt are improving with practice.

Fiddlers Elbow: the new gravel seems to settling down, mostly either packed down into the roadway or swept off to the side. I guess it's been about two months.

Ken


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## Nielly

I was bummed that they had to take Fiddlers out of the Hillier as they just did the chip seal prior to the ride. My buddy ended climbing it anyway as he got lost by following some old markers. He got up the road ok but got bit by a little yappy dog in the ankle somewhere near the top for his troubles.


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## Ken Roberts

Nielly said:


> I was bummed that they had to take Fiddlers out of the Hillier as they just did the chip seal prior to the ride. My buddy ended climbing it anyway as he got lost by following some old markers. He got up the road ok but got bit by a little yappy dog in the ankle somewhere near the top for his troubles.


Last time I was there I stopped and exchanged some words about dog-chasing at a distance with a person in the driveway where a yappy dog comes out from at the base of the steepest section. The person told me I shouldn't worry about the dog chasing out into the street because he never bites.

Ken


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## Nielly

Ken Roberts said:


> Last time I was there I stopped and exchanged some words about dog-chasing at a distance with a person in the driveway where a yappy dog comes out from at the base of the steepest section. The person told me I shouldn't worry about the dog chasing out into the street because he never bites.
> 
> Ken


"I thought you said you're dog doesn't bite?"
"That's not my dog"


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## nickt30

*Milled and staying that way*



Nielly said:


> I haven't been on it lately but my understanding is that they've milled sections of Skyline drive to slow the cars down. I can't imagine it would be any good on a bike.


They milled the north side (ringwood side) and riders in the area were waiting for the repavement only to learn that it is for winter traction and will remain that way. One now needs to climb up the oakland side and turnaround when you get to the top.


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## Corsaire

One hill worth mentioning, although not as comparable to the ones here mentioned, it's a portion of Waghaw Rd. in Towaco, NJ, about 17 miles from my house. It's only about 1/2 mile but it sure feels longer, avg 12%, with pitches at 18% and 21%, and it's got a couple of turns. 
What I find most interesting on steep hills is how the mental part of the challenge (steep climb) is so important, your attitute and mental readiness makes all the difference.
I have mixed feeling about steep hills, my mind loves them, but my herniated disk on my lower back hates them.


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## Ken Roberts

Sounds like it's worth knowing about for someone who lives in that area. 
I'm not near my usual topo tools, but a quick rough calculation for part of Waughaw Rd in Towaco NJ - gives me around 360 vertical feet of climbing at about 8% average steepness grade. 
That's for about 0.85 mile to the northwest from I-287, like on this map.

Is that the road you're talking about?
Not sure how to put together the idea of 18% and 21% sections with the overall 8% average -- that would be a pretty badly-designed road -- or it shows that this quick rough calculation of mine shouldn't be trusted.

Ken


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## fiddlers25

it's not long but there is a steep section that must reach 15-20% for a bit but as you observed the overall average is not outrageous because it levels off. i broke a spoke one time doing intervals on that road and it was pretty hairy having to go back down that curvy ramp.


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## Corsaire

fiddlers25 said:


> it's not long but there is a steep section that must reach 15-20% for a bit but as you observed the overall average is not outrageous because it levels off. i broke a spoke one time doing intervals on that road and it was pretty hairy having to go back down that curvy ramp.


I measured it using my Delorme Topo 5.0 about three years ago (which I can't make work now in my new computer w/ Vista) and also using my Garmin Edge 305. Both devices are not famous for accuracy, btw. But I only measured from the very start of the real steep climb which starts about 30ft (?)after Bott Lane ending right before it starts to level off, so you only measure the "real" steep part. I got, like you said, short sections between 15 - 21% specially if you take the very inside of the curves, with about 12% avg. That steep section is about 0.5 mile, not even perhaps. I've done repeats there too during the high season. I just hate that damn dog when he's unleashed, just about when you're about to take the first curve to the right, the first time he made me lose my concentration as he was running barlinkg loud towards me, and almost lost momentum....but it's a good climb, I like it.


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## DrSmile

I ride up Waghaw Rd. on a regular basis, I don't think I've ever come across another rider while riding it. Where the heck are you guys hiding? 

If you keep riding through Fayson Lakes over 23, you can ride a similar hill up Apshawa Cross Rd. which leads to Macopin into West Milford. Apshawa Cross is a nice small road that has a great initial kick to it.


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## fiddlers25

will have to check that one out. not far from there off kinnelon rd., have you tried ricker which then dead ends up sheep rock? a little sting in the tail there.

i'm not a waughaw regular, usually when i'm over there i'm going up valhalla or brookvalley. in fact since i broke that spoke i don't think i've been back to waughaw. must be overdue for a visit.


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## DrSmile

I'll have to try Ricker/Sheep Rock. Thanks for the tip! I usually don't like to ride dead ends though because invariably someone lets their dog roam about figuring no one frequents the place.


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## Corsaire

DrSmile said:


> I ride up Waghaw Rd. on a regular basis, I don't think I've ever come across another rider while riding it. Where the heck are you guys hiding?
> 
> If you keep riding through Fayson Lakes over 23, you can ride a similar hill up Apshawa Cross Rd. which leads to Macopin into West Milford. Apshawa Cross is a nice small road that has a great initial kick to it.


I've done Apshawa a couple times in the past, it's really a shorty, but yeah steep at the beguinning, but not long enough to punish you badly. Apshawa links Paterson Hamburg Tpke with Macopin. I usally come to that area via Kinnelon Road/Maple lake Rd, but many times I've been up Macopin coming from Butler.


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## fiddlers25

*waughaw report*

just did it today: 0.1 mile steep little section at the start (maybe 8-10%) then it's flat for most of the next 0.2 but starts to go up at the end then the next 0.3 is the hard part. this part averages 14% according to ridewithgps.com, it gets steeper near the end so it might get near 20% briefly. it was a little harder today, the wind blew all sorts of junk on the road. 

then about 0.4 tenths flat, then another steep little kicker in the last 0.1.

ridewithgps.com has it at 434 ft for 1.1 miles so only a 7.5% average but that can fool you because half of it is basically flat.


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## DrSmile

I hate the steep kicker at the end, I always try to get a running start and it just stops you dead by the time you get to the house on the left. I was trying to get there today, but as I live in West Orange I am way too out of shape to make it... had to turn around when I got to Lincoln Park. Still an awesome Sunday for riding!


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## EricH_NJ

A friend of mine rode Fiddlers a few weeks ago and said the surface was fine. He had plenty of time to look at it while he was walking the second half. 

Conditions on Montana are great and Harmony Brass Castle is just about perfect, making for nice smooth 45+ descents.

Oh and Ken. Thanks for all that great info on your website!


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