# DT Swiss 460 for gravel



## Gall

Hello,

I'm putting together an old cross bike to be used on the gravel roads. I'm looking at the Powertap DT swiss 460 with 24fr and 28r spoke count that have a 18mm internal rim width. 

I weigh less then 150 pounds. 

Are these decent wheels and will they hold up on the gravel roads found in Pennsylvania? Anyone have experience with the 460's? 

Thanks! 

Gall


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## Lombard

I have these R460 rims laced to Dura-Ace 9000 hubs on my road bike 24F/32R. At 180lbs., I am a bit heavier than you. I built the 32 rear because the rear chainstay clearance is tight, I wanted to use 28mm tires, so more spokes was to reduce rear wheel flex and lessen the chance of rubbing the stays on a climb.

Will they hold up on gravel roads? I would say that would depend on how harsh the gravel roads are. They weren't designed for that, but they are fairly robust as road rims go. What width tires do you plan to use?

At your weight, I am thinking you will be OK.


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## Gall

I'm thinking a set of 40mm. 

Thanks for your reply!


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## Lombard

Gall said:


> I'm thinking a set of 40mm.
> 
> Thanks for your reply!


Well 18mm is a bit narrow for 40mm tires, but there is nothing terrible about using that combo. And these days, finding anything wider with a brake track is next to impossible. HED Belgijm Plus's are wider, but also much more expensive. The R460s are a steal!

Which tires were you looking at? Right now, I'm using the Challenge Gravel Grinders in 700x38 on my gravel bike. Clement XPlor MSOs are also good - more robust, but heavier too.


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## Gall

Clement X’Plor MSO with the 120tpi casing.

What wheels do you have on your gravel bike?


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## Finx

FYI

The entire line of tires formerly licensed and sold under the Clement brand (including the X'Plor MSO) are now being sold under the Donnelly Cycling brand (skiing with some new models.

https://www.donnellycycling.com/collections


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## Lombard

Gall said:


> Clement X’Plor MSO with the 120tpi casing.
> 
> What wheels do you have on your gravel bike?


Right now, I am using WTB ST i23s which are the stock wheels that came on the bike. I will soon be building a couple of other wheel sets for this bike with WTB KOM i25s (27.5) and H Plus Son Hydras.

Keep in mind that my gravel bike has disc brakes and these are disc only rims.


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## Lombard

Finx said:


> FYI
> 
> The entire line of tires formerly licensed and sold under the Clement brand (including the X'Plor MSO) are now being sold under the Donnelly Cycling brand (skiing with some new models.
> 
> https://www.donnellycycling.com/collections


This is true that the license to use the Clement name has now expired, so they are using their own name which is Donnelly. However, there is still plenty of stock still out there with the Clement name on it.


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## mfdemicco

I'm building up a set of these now (32 spoke). They seem OK, but not finished building them. I wanted a set of tubeless wheels the same width as my Sun CR18 wheels that came on the bike (Bruce Gordon BLT) so I could interchange them without having readjust my brakes. 

I read on a forum a wheel builder complaining that the tire bead shelf where the beads sit is too narrow and the beads pop into the center channel when you remove pressure from the tire meaning you can't seat the beads and inject sealant through the stem, and he worried about burping too. Hmmm... Hope that's not true.


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## pushstart

I have the disc-brake version of these rims as a backup to my carbon wheels and they work great.

Of the handful of rims I have tried, these are probably my favorite alloy rim for gravel, when factoring in the cost.

Reasons:
- they build up really nicely.
- easy to install tires and mine (Schwalbe G-One 38/40mm or the G-One Speed 30mm) seat easily with a floor pump. In fact I seated my G-One Speed tires with a hand pump when I was on travel.
- lots of gravel and a fair bit of single-track riding, including Monster Cross race; I have a few minor dents from running pressure too low, but no burping.
- they are inexpensive enough that I am not worried about rim damage.

Mine are build 28/28 and I weigh 175lbs.

I do wish they were a tad wider, but in practice they work just fine for 40mm tires.


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## mfdemicco

I just finished building my wheels and mounted the tires. One thing I'm disappointed about with these rims is that there are no humps on the rim bed to hold the beads in place. There are no snapping sounds when the beads seat like my Shimano and Mavic tubeless rims do. When you deflate the tire the beads don't stay seated (I hear the snapping then as the beads move to the center well.) I don't recommend these rims because of this.


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## Lombard

mfdemicco said:


> I just finished building my wheels and mounted the tires. One thing I'm disappointed about with these rims is that there are no humps on the rim bed to hold the beads in place. There are no snapping sounds when the beads seat like my Shimano and Mavic tubeless rims do. When you deflate the tire the beads don't stay seated (I hear the snapping then as the beads move to the center well.) I don't recommend these rims because of this.


Huh? Are we talking about the same rims, the DT R460s? The ones I have definitely have bead hooks.


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## mfdemicco

Not bead hooks, bead retention humps in the rim bed.

See this photo of another rim. 










I guess a lot of rims don't have these, but they keep the beads in place and help prevent burping. Stupid DT for not putting them in. 

Anyway, I hear no snap, snap, snap sound as the beads seat on these rims, which is not a good sign.

See this as well http://www.velonews.com/2013/06/bik...-tubeless-ceramics-for-carbon-and-more_291296


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## pushstart

You may have mentioned this above, but are you planning to run super low pressure? If not, you don't need to worry about burping.

The popping sound is unrelated to the bumps on the bead shelf. Perhaps it is related to how tight the tires are fitting, requiring pressure to snap them out of the center channel (?)

But honestly, these rims are fantastic tubeless. I ran 40-50psi with 30mm tires on these for a summer in Switzerland, riding a mixture of paved roads and gravel (with lots of "hills"), and they were brilliant.


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## mfdemicco

pushstart said:


> You may have mentioned this above, but are you planning to run super low pressure? If not, you don't need to worry about burping.
> 
> The popping sound is unrelated to the bumps on the bead shelf. Perhaps it is related to how tight the tires are fitting, requiring pressure to snap them out of the center channel (?)
> 
> But honestly, these rims are fantastic tubeless. I ran 40-50psi with 30mm tires on these for a summer in Switzerland, riding a mixture of paved roads and gravel (with lots of "hills"), and they were brilliant.


30 psi minimum on a 700x42 tire. 

I think the humps serve a safety purpose, i.e. they keep the bead in place if the tire goes flat suddenly. Could be the difference between a crash and not. I also don't like that the tire beads don't stay in place when you deflate the tire. They move into the well.


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## pushstart

mfdemicco said:


> 30 psi minimum on a 700x42 tire.
> 
> I think the humps serve a safety purpose, i.e. they keep the bead in place if the tire goes flat suddenly. Could be the difference between a crash and not. I also don't like that the tire beads don't stay in place when you deflate the tire. They move into the well.


That is certainly not a pressure I would worry about burping. I have used less than 30psi with 40mm tires (single-track) and no burping issues. (Those are also quite large tires for this rim, though in practice it works fine.) If you wanted to do 25psi on 32mm tires that would probably require a rim with very carefully designed bead interface.

Anyway, I don't think there is anything to worry about here. Lots of tires on different rims drop back into center channel when deflated, but this has no bearing on how they perform when riding. I would contend that the bumps might offer value for very low-pressure cx, but know of nothing to suggest they are safer for regular tire pressures.

Anyway, I encourage you to use the wheels (tubeless). Hopefully your experiential will be as positive as mine has been.


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## Lombard

mfdemicco said:


> Not bead hooks, bead retention humps in the rim bed.
> 
> See this photo of another rim.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess a lot of rims don't have these, but they keep the beads in place and help prevent burping. Stupid DT for not putting them in.
> 
> Anyway, I hear no snap, snap, snap sound as the beads seat on these rims, which is not a good sign.
> 
> See this as well Technical FAQ: Road tubeless, ceramics for carbon, and more | VeloNews.com


I have actually seen rims with no bead retention humps. I don't know why anybody would want that. Bizarre.


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## cyclevt

Lombard said:


> Well 18mm is a bit narrow for 40mm tires, but there is nothing terrible about using that combo. And these days, finding anything wider with a brake track is next to impossible. HED Belgijm Plus's are wider, but also much more expensive. The R460s are a steal!
> 
> Which tires were you looking at? Right now, I'm using the Challenge Gravel Grinders in 700x38 on my gravel bike. Clement XPlor MSOs are also good - more robust, but heavier too.


Had a CX bike with D460 rim brake wheels and ran everything from road tires @ 23/25mm up to tubeless CX tires @ 40mm No problems.

Just sold that bike and bought a disc bike and used that rim again (in disc form) in the rear and run a tubeless 37mm "gravel" tire with no problems..


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