# Carbon vs alloy handlebar



## wchevron (Sep 14, 2014)

Looking to replace my handlebar. Is it worth upgrading to a carbon one. If so, what's the difference between the two?


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

wchevron said:


> Looking to replace my handlebar. Is it worth upgrading to a carbon one. If so, what's the difference between the two?


Carbon is slightly lighter and some say it will dampen road vibrations. The lighter is not much and I have never been able to tell any one component dampens vibrations more than another with the exception being tires. 
Carbon also has failure concerns. If you crash and they survive you may have issues, if they get crushed by a ham fisted wrench, you have problems. 
IMHO, they are not worth it. If you are willing to accept some risks, go for it. For most people that are bling and they have no issues. Others will justify the cash outlay by singing praises about comfort. To each their own.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

tihsepa said:


> Carbon is slightly lighter and some say it will dampen road vibrations. The lighter is not much and I have never been able to tell any one component dampens vibrations more than another with the exception being tires.
> Carbon also has failure concerns. If you crash and they survive you may have issues, if they get crushed by a ham fisted wrench, you have problems.
> IMHO, they are not worth it. If you are willing to accept some risks, go for it. For most people that are bling and they have no issues. Others will justify the cash outlay by singing praises about comfort. To each their own.


well you may have issues with an alloy handlebar after a crash as well. Ham fisted wrenches can destroy many a material as well. 
There's some flexibility with the design of carbon bars not possible with alloys, that would be the main difference. Whether one wants that is another issue.


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## JustTooBig (Aug 11, 2005)

the most comfortable bars I own are carbon, but it's not due to any 'dampening' properties, they have a nice flat top section that fits my hands perfectly. But you might be able to find that in an alloy bar too, IDK.

The ROI isn't great for carbon bars, in my opinion. They add some bling factor, but pretty marginal gains. But if you have the budget for them, go for it...


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Also you should not use aero bars with carbon. So if that is a consideration stick with alloy. Carbon came with my bike but if I was to replace again, I would go alloy.


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

I purchased an expensive carbon bar because I read that it dampens vibration. Never noticed a difference other than it looks fancy.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

NJBiker72 said:


> Also you should not use aero bars with carbon. .


Why not?


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Carbon composites let manufactures do some things with shape and parts integration that can't be done readily with alloy. But as the one who's going to ride with them, find the handlebars that fit and work for you, considering shape, weight, or whatever else is important for you. Whether they are alloy or carbon won't make much difference, other than possibly the price tag.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

ibericb said:


> Why not?


The general consensus seems to be that the clamping down on the carbon creates pressure points which may lead to a weakness or breakpoint in the carbon handlebar. 

I tried them for a couple weeks until a friend and mechanic advised against it. Then searched here and elsewhere for an opinion. 

Even if an old wife's tale, it is not worth the risk.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Get the shape and measurments you want and don't worry about what it's made of. It doesn't matter. If you have a certain budget that'll probably make the decision for you to get alloy.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

The dampening I got when I switched from alloy to Easton CF bars was astounding.

During my first ride with the Easton bars, _I kept checking my front tire, seriously thinking it was going flat_.

I wrapped my CF bars with fizik microtex tape with gel pads. I stopped wearing gloves shortly thereafter and have never gone back to wearing gloves. Don't need em.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

NJBiker72 said:


> Also you should not use aero bars with carbon.





NJBiker72 said:


> The general consensus seems to be that the clamping down on the carbon creates pressure points which may lead to a weakness or breakpoint in the carbon handlebar.
> 
> I tried them for a couple weeks until a friend and mechanic advised against it.


Hmmmm.....
FSA K-Force Compact - FSA
The K-Force Compact uses the same materials and construction as the New Ergo, with unidirectional carbon fiber reinforced with Kevlar. The shape is our newest compact design, with a shallow drop, short reach and slight outward flare on the drops. The top section features an extra-wide bulge extending either side of the stem, ideal *for mounting clip-on aero bars *or other accessories. Clamp areas have additional reinforcement and a textured finish to avoid slip. 

I'd be leery of putting them on just any carbon bar, but you can't rule out all carbon bars.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

NJBiker72 said:


> The general consensus seems to be that the clamping down on the carbon creates pressure points which may lead to a weakness or breakpoint in the carbon handlebar.
> 
> I tried them for a couple weeks until a friend and mechanic advised against it. Then searched here and elsewhere for an opinion.
> 
> Even if an old wife's tale, it is not worth the risk.


I would say that consensus was founded on errors made by folks clamping on aero extensions on carbon bars that weren't reinforced for the extensions. There is nothing inherently wrong or inherently weaker in a carbon fiber composite other than what it was designed for. If you want carbon fiber aero bars, for whatever reason, then buy carbon fiber aero bars - they are no weaker or more failure prone if they are properly designed and installed. If you want to add aero extensions to existing carbon handlebars, just be sure they were designed for it, with adequate reinforcement.

From FSA:
*Can I put aero extensions on my carbon road handlebars?*_
Late model K-force and SL-K handlebars have reinforced areas that will accept aero extensions. Never mount an accessory or aero extension on any tapered section of the handlebar. It is recommended to remove any sharp edges on the aero extension clamp area, and use Dynamic Carbon installation compound between the handlebar and extension clamps. When tightening the extensions to the handlebar, use the minimum amount of torque necessary to secure the bars; generally 7-9Nm depending on extension brand and bolt diameter. The K-wing and Plasma handlebars do not accept aero extensions.
_

If there is a weakness in carbon composite handlebars (or seatposts, or any part) it is that they are not terribly forgiving when it comes to excessive clamping force. That means they are prone to being damaged by the hamfisted who ignore tightening torque specs. But when used consistent with their design, and installed properly, there is no inherent weakness or issue with carbon composite handlebars, seatposts, etc.


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## phoehn9111 (May 11, 2005)

Ditto the Easton EC90 bars are worlds better than the aluminum I was
using before. Just as important, however, is settling on the style you
are best with. I like standard bars, shallow drop. Previously used aero
flat tops. Also using Fizik tape but no gel pads. Like to preserve the
tactile feel so the Microtek is the perfect compromise between too
thick and too thin. Of course you have to be careful torquing. But
they have a wonderful feel out of the saddle. Stiff but somehow compliant.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

One mans anecdotal experience: I use the same size 3T ergosum bar in alloy and carbon. One on the CX bike and one on the road. I have switched and put the alloy on the road for a while. 

Weight: Close depending on your definition of close. 240g v. 200g. 

Feel: A very subtle different at best but, honestly after I get past the end of my driveway I forget about it. 

Stiffness: Both plenty stiff so not an issue but, I honestly can't tell any difference. 

Torque issues: They make torque wrenches for this. You can easily over torque both aluminum and carbon. Some carbon bars have an alloy sleeve inside the carbon tube at the clamp area so...Not sure about 3T. 

Overall performance: No noticeable difference.

Bottom line for me...reach, drop, width and THEN price is the determining factor on a bar purchase. The only reason I have different bars is I have enough disposable income to try different stuff. If I even hesitated to buy something like a bar due to price it's not worth it.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

woodys737 said:


> One mans anecdotal experience: I use the same size 3T ergosum bar in alloy and carbon. One on the CX bike and one on the road. I have switched and put the alloy on the road for a while.
> 
> ...
> 
> Bottom line for me...reach, drop, width and THEN price is the determining factor on a bar purchase. The only reason I have different bars is I have enough disposable income to try different stuff. If I even hesitated to buy something like a bar due to price it's not worth it.


Nice! Finally, an apples to apples comparison.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

tlg said:


> Hmmmm.....
> FSA K-Force Compact - FSA
> The K-Force Compact uses the same materials and construction as the New Ergo, with unidirectional carbon fiber reinforced with Kevlar. The shape is our newest compact design, with a shallow drop, short reach and slight outward flare on the drops. The top section features an extra-wide bulge extending either side of the stem, ideal *for mounting clip-on aero bars *or other accessories. Clamp areas have additional reinforcement and a textured finish to avoid slip.
> 
> I'd be leery of putting them on just any carbon bar, but you can't rule out all carbon bars.


Fair point, the mechanic did tell me some could supposedly use them, not mine. But he also seemed a little skeptical of them. Alloy there is really no concern and my guess is that the carbon ones that can handle it will likely be heavier, so you would lose some of the benefit. Just a guess.


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## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

SPlKE said:


> The dampening I got when I switched from alloy to Easton CF bars was astounding.
> 
> During my first ride with the Easton bars, _I kept checking my front tire, seriously thinking it was going flat_.
> 
> I wrapped my CF bars with fizik microtex tape with gel pads. I stopped wearing gloves shortly thereafter and have never gone back to wearing gloves. Don't need em.


Maybe it's the bar tape and the gel pads; not the bar. Why do the pros prefer aluminum bars? Why does my steel bike ride more comfortable than my carbon bike? Maybe there's a princess and the pea effect going on here.


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## chudak (Jul 28, 2012)

tihsepa said:


> Carbon is slightly lighter and some say it will dampen road vibrations. The lighter is not much and I have never been able to tell any one component dampens vibrations more than another with the exception being tires.
> Carbon also has failure concerns. If you crash and they survive you may have issues, if they get crushed by a ham fisted wrench, you have problems.
> IMHO, they are not worth it. If you are willing to accept some risks, go for it. For most people that are bling and they have no issues. Others will justify the cash outlay by singing praises about comfort. To each their own.


I just upgraded the gruppo on my bike and got a new cockpit as well. I steered clear of CF and got AL for the reasons above. I'm a big guy so the weight savings mean nothing. I'd rather have something a little more 'robust'.


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

The dampening effect is marketing BS.


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

I took a quick look at Ritchey bars since that is the brand I use. My alloy bars were $90.00 and the lightest compact alloy bar that Ritchey has. He also has carbon bars that shave off an ounce of weight and a pound of weight from your wallet. I do not know about the comfort thing since I have not owned carbon bars but I can say I have never had comfort problems on a bike so it's not an area I worry about. 
So from my take on it I would say it depends on you. Are you looking for a weighing bike, a riding bike. Do you perform at a high level and have 23 pages of KOM's like a Continental Team Pro that trains in our area or do you go for a bike ride after work like most of us.


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

Carbon looks WAY better! Don't waste your time with anything else. The most important factor (I'm amazed it hasn't been addressed already) is BLING! If you don't impress your friends with an expensive handlebar, you're a Fred.


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## Cooper1960 (Oct 14, 2010)

I have carbon and alloy both, two different brands and two different bikes. The carbon does feel a tad better with muting road vibration, but not much. The one thing I don't like about my carbon bars is I feel them flex on hard standing climbs.

So for me carbon bars are a "been there tried that", I will probably never buy another set, not worth the extra money in my mind.


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## Love Commander (Aug 20, 2009)

wchevron said:


> If so, what's the difference between the two?


IME, the biggest and most noticeable difference between the two is one is made out of carbon fiber while the other is made out of aluminum...


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

tihsepa said:


> Carbon is slightly lighter and* some say it will dampen road vibrations. *The lighter is not much and I have never been able to tell any one component dampens vibrations more than another with the exception being tires.
> _*Carbon also has failure concerns.*_ If you crash and they survive you may have issues, if they get crushed by a ham fisted wrench, you have problems.
> IMHO, they are not worth it. If you are willing to accept some risks, go for it. For most people that are bling and they have no issues. Others will justify the cash outlay by singing praises about comfort. To each their own.


I among those "some." They do dampen the road vibe. I also agree the tire is a big help too.

Some carbon bars dampen the vibe better than others. Easton EC70, EC90, and Thomson KFC One, do a nice job of dampening. The FSA K-Wing, not so much. However the K-wing is still better than any FSA or Easton Al bar by A LOT.

I run the Thomson KFC One with a 25 mm Vittoria Open Corsa EVO.

As for the failure concerns,
You should have a torque wrench and know how to properly install the bars. 

Also for carbon bars, stay away from FSA stems. For what ever reason, the two FSA stems I have used were a tad small in the clamping area. The made a clamp mark in the FSA K-Wing and Easton bars. (yes, I installed them properly) . My Thomson x2 and Bonti stems did not make those marks in either bar.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

jlandry said:


> The dampening effect is marketing BS.


Incorrect...........
You must have ridden a crappy carbon bar. Or, you run 28mm tires at 80 psi


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

Love Commander said:


> IME, the biggest and most noticeable difference between the two is one is made out of carbon fiber while the other is made out of aluminum...





jspharmd said:


> Carbon looks WAY better! Don't waste your time with anything else. The most important factor (I'm amazed it hasn't been addressed already) is BLING! If you don't impress your friends with an expensive handlebar, you're a Fred.


I'm Fred an damn proud of it. I won't do the mirror thing. I'll wear a visor, mismatched kit and other thing to.

I usually impress my friends with fixing their bike or blasting DH. It's just cheaper.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

Now, if you went on about ceramic bearings, then I'd be with you. 

Are ceramic bearings better than steel bearings??????



ziscwg said:


> Incorrect...........
> You must have ridden a crappy carbon bar. Or, you run 28mm tires at 80 psi





jlandry said:


> The dampening effect is marketing BS.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

I don't seem to experience 'vibration' or other comfort issues. so, never saw a need for the expense of carbon bars.

the alloys I have look nice, work fine, don't cost much.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

ziscwg said:


> Incorrect...........
> You must have ridden a crappy carbon bar. Or, you run 28mm tires at 80 psi



Agree with this appraisal. Most of my bikes, the frame subdues 'buzz' and my choice of rims, tires, and pressures make for no appreciable difference in feel at the bars. In fact I prefer AL over carbon bars for a few reasons, what those reasons are, or I think they are is probably moot. Although the cost comparison is fairly straight forward.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

Oxtox said:


> I don't seem to experience 'vibration' or other comfort issues. so, never saw a need for the expense of carbon bars.
> 
> the alloys I have look nice, work fine, don't cost much.


That is possible as your roads might be nice. We have a lot of chip seal here and it creates a subtle, but annoying buzz.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

jspharmd said:


> If you don't impress your friends with an expensive handlebar, you're a Fred.


See, and I suggest you drop them like bad habits on your steel handle bar bike that weighs 25 lb to impress them.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

mfdemicco said:


> Maybe it's the bar tape and the gel pads; not the bar. Why do the pros prefer aluminum bars? Why does my steel bike ride more comfortable than my carbon bike? Maybe there's a princess and the pea effect going on here.


I used the same tape & gel setup on my cinelli bars.

The EC90s dampen road vibrations on my bike a lot compared to the cinelli aluminum bars I took off.

The difference in dampening road vibrations was dramatic on my bike. . Believe it or not. I don't care.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

jlandry said:


> The dampening effect is marketing BS.


In fact, it's all wet! 

CF does *damp* vibration, but how much and if it's in frequencies that are important to humans depends on a lot of factors. I did not notice a significant difference when I went to CF bars. I do notice a difference between CF and aluminium forks.

The shapes that can be made in aluminium are more limited than what can be done in CF. So you can get a more ergonomic bar (assuming the designers ideas of ergonomic match yours). 

Aluminium bars do break. They are more suceptible to fatigue cracking and corrosion than CF is. Either one can break in a crash.

CF bars can be made lighter than aluminium bars. But unlless you go with expensive weight weenie stuff the difference is in the 20-40g range.


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

ziscwg said:


> Incorrect...........
> You must have ridden a crappy carbon bar. Or, you run 28mm tires at 80 psi


I went from a crappy $20 Cdale aluminum bar to a $200 Carbon FSA K-Wing and was highly disappointed.


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

robt57 said:


> See, and I suggest you drop them like bad habits on your steel handle bar bike that weighs 25 lb to impress them.


Seeing as I don't have the top of the line bikes, I try to impress by dropping my cyclist friends. Unfortunately, I'm not that fast either...so they keep catching back up.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

jlandry said:


> I went from a crappy $20 Cdale aluminum bar to a $200 Carbon FSA K-Wing and was highly disappointed.


I have ridden the K-wing and liked it. However, as you have found out, it's probably the roughest of the carbon bars I have ridden. 

That being said, if someone was going to give me a bar of my choice, I'd probably go with the kWing. It was not the smoothest riding, but I was always comfortable with it. The other bars I have used I have had to compromise.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

jlandry said:


> I went from a crappy $20 Cdale aluminum bar to a $200 Carbon FSA K-Wing and was highly disappointed.



I feel two carbon Easton bars I have VS the sale AL bars I put on the few better bikes I have yield negligible benefit.

I will say the like the Easton bar shapes. But I paid 100.00 for the better/newer set, and average 25.00 for the on sale AL bars that are maybe 1/8 lb heavier most. 4/1 ratio for the bars...


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

ziscwg said:


> I run the Thomson KFC One...


Thomson Carbon Road bars are my favorite bars of all time. Love 'em.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

ziscwg said:


> That is possible as your roads might be nice. We have a lot of chip seal here and it creates a subtle, but annoying buzz.


nah, we have chip seal too...still don't suffer any significant discomfort.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

wchevron said:


> Looking to replace my handlebar. Is it worth upgrading to a carbon one. If so, what's the difference between the two?


 I have a 3-T on both my Trek and Colnago. On one I went Aluminum the other Carbon. Doesn't much matter. The weight penalty is small and the money savings substantial. The answer might depend on finances, whether its a dream bike or if you think you might crash at some point.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

My aluminum bar has that feature.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Trek_5200 said:


> I have a 3-T on both my Trek and Colnago. On one I went Aluminum the other Carbon. Doesn't much matter. The weight penalty is small and the money savings substantial. The answer might depend on finances, whether its a dream bike or if you think you might crash at some point.


"Might crash"??? 

Most of us crash at some point. A negative of the sport. That said a handlebar is not that expensive to replace.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

NJBiker72 said:


> "Might crash"???
> 
> Most of us crash at some point. A negative of the sport. That said a handlebar is not that expensive to replace.


Except that a carbon handlebar may shatter and you can't finish the ride or get back home, an aluminum one would more likely be usable for the remainder of the ride.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Trek_5200 said:


> Except that a carbon handlebar may shatter and you can't finish the ride or get back home, an aluminum one would more likely be usable for the remainder of the ride.


True. And riding home after a crash is something we all take pride in. Wife loves it when I walk in early dripping blood all over.


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

NJBiker72 said:


> "Might crash"???
> 
> Most of us crash at some point. A negative of the sport. That said a handlebar is not that expensive to replace.


Expensive is relative. I wouldn't want to replace $350 handlebars. That would be expensive to me.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Trek_5200 said:


> Except that a carbon handlebar may shatter and you can't finish the ride or get back home, an aluminum one would more likely be usable for the remainder of the ride.


If it is a modern carbon composite vs. a fairly standard alloy comparison, typically the carbon composite will withstand a significantly greater force before damage than the alloy. Of course there are exceptions for things like extreme lightweight bars, but there are reinforced bars as well. If you crash the bike badly enough to destroy a carbon composite handlebar, you probably also have other serious damage that would challenge the ability to ride the bike.

For typical road bike use I wouldn't base my handlebar buying decision on imagined or suspected crash worthiness. If you're a using it in racing then it probably is a valid concern, and should be approached with data, and certainly cost consideration.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Trek_5200 said:


> Except that a carbon handlebar may shatter and you can't finish the ride or get back home, an aluminum one would more likely be usable for the remainder of the ride.


not shatter. asplode.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

jspharmd said:


> Expensive is relative. I wouldn't want to replace $350 handlebars. That would be expensive to me.


Sure, but compared to the remainder of the $5,000 bike? If you have carbon handlebars, you are probably not riding entry level.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Trek_5200 said:


> Except that a carbon handlebar may shatter and you can't finish the ride or get back home, an aluminum one would more likely be usable for the remainder of the ride.


It really depends on how the crash evolves, but, from all the crashes I've experienced and seen lately the bars (carbon) will more than likely swing around and crush the top tube while staying intact. Aluminum will do the same thing. Just stating that a carbon bar when it violently comes in contact with the top tube will usually win. 

So, to me, if you are worried about the cost of crashing, a steel or aluminum frame is a more rational buy. Of the 40 races I did last season I saw quite a few crashes. I can not recall any bars that were shattered but many top tubes looked like they were hit by a hammer. Here is a pic of mine after a crash in late 2012...


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

woodys737 said:


> It really depends on how the crash evolves, but, from all the crashes I've experienced and seen lately the bars (carbon) will more than likely swing around and crush the top tube while staying intact. Aluminum will do the same thing. Just stating that a carbon bar when it violently comes in contact with the top tube will usually win.
> 
> So, to me, if you are worried about the cost of crashing, a steel or aluminum frame is a more rational buy. Of the 40 races I did last season I saw quite a few crashes. I can not recall any bars that were shattered but many top tubes looked like they were hit by a hammer. Here is a pic of mine after a crash in late 2012...
> View attachment 303100


^^^ Good assessment.

Here's the inside story on the choice in the pro peleton. 

According to FSA from their testing of impact strength on carbon vs. Al, no difference. However, a point that comes out several times it is that it is more difficult to detect marginal damage to carbon handlebars than Al. I believe the key point is the statement near the end, "_Although traditions without any kind of scientific fact are dying out in cycling, they still are there, and that includes aluminum handlebars. It's pretty much folklore now that aluminum bars are safer than carbon in the pro peleton_".


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

ibericb said:


> ^^^ Good assessment.
> 
> Here's the inside story on the choice in the pro peleton.
> 
> According to FSA from their testing of impact strength on carbon vs. Al, no difference. However, a point that comes out several times it is that it is more difficult to detect marginal damage to carbon handlebars than Al. I believe the key point is the statement near the end, "_Although traditions without any kind of scientific fact are dying out in cycling, they still are there, and that includes aluminum handlebars. It's pretty much folklore now that aluminum bars are safer than carbon in the pro peleton_".


What I found interesting was the comment about using Al bars to add weight to meet the UCI weight limits. As bikes get lighter and lighter, they have to add weight back somewhere. Rather than adding lead slugs, it makes sense to use a heavier stronger handlebar/stem.

However, if the weight limits were to get lowered, I don't believe for an instant that the entire peleton wouldn't switch to carbon bars.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

ibericb said:


> ^^^ Good assessment.
> 
> Here's the inside story on the choice in the pro peleton.
> 
> According to FSA from their testing of impact strength on carbon vs. Al, no difference. However, a point that comes out several times it is that it is more difficult to detect marginal damage to carbon handlebars than Al. I believe the key point is the statement near the end, "_Although traditions without any kind of scientific fact are dying out in cycling, they still are there, and that includes aluminum handlebars. It's pretty much folklore now that aluminum bars are safer than carbon in the pro peleton_".


To be fair, all the frames including mine were carbon. I suppose steel or aluminum could be dented in a manner that could rapidly increase failure. The only bar that has failed on me was a thin walled relatively light aluminum mountain bar. Luckily I was going slow over a technical section when the bar failed right next to the clamp. Clearly, I over torqued it. But, when it failed it pretty much melted away like a hot knife through butter. Never again did I feel the need to save weight with something as important as a bar. And I now torque to specs


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

tlg said:


> What I found interesting was the comment about using Al bars to add weight to meet the UCI weight limits. As bikes get lighter and lighter, they have to add weight back somewhere. Rather than adding lead slugs, it makes sense to use a heavier stronger handlebar/stem.
> 
> However, if the weight limits were to get lowered, I don't believe for an instant that the entire peleton wouldn't switch to carbon bars.


Yeah, I found that aspect interesting too.

It would be interesting to know how many are stuck in the too light trap, needing to put weight on to make the lower limit. But on crash worthiness, I think the point about "if you're riding a carbon frame with carbon fork and carbon wheels, then it seems a bit stupid to not use carbon bars ..." is valid. If you crash a carbon bike with enough impact to raised the question about the bars, then you probably need to be worried about the rest of the bike as well.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

ibericb said:


> Yeah, I found that aspect interesting too.
> 
> It would be interesting to know how many are stuck in the too light trap, needing to put weight on to make the lower limit. But on crash worthiness, I think the point about "if you're riding a carbon frame with carbon fork and carbon wheels, then it seems a bit stupid to not use carbon bars ..." is valid. If you crash a carbon bike with enough impact to raised the question about the bars, then you probably need to be worried about the rest of the bike as well.


I'd also like to know how many pros actually ride a bike after it's crashed. If they crash, the bike gets swapped during the race. Does it get retired afterwards or "refurbished" and put back in rotation?
I'm only speculating, but I'd imagine it gets sent back to the mfg for evaluation and replaced with a new one. I can't imagine they'd take the risk of it failing during a race. It wouldn't be good advertising if on live TV a handlebar broke while someone was JRA.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

woodys737 said:


> It really depends on how the crash evolves, but, from all the crashes I've experienced and seen lately the bars (carbon) will more than likely swing around and crush the top tube while staying intact.
> View attachment 303100


Lower your bars so that doesn't happen.


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## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

I was on a bike tour where someone had their Al bars crack and break about 1 inch from the stem. He said it was a fatigue failure on a bar with a lot of miles. Lucky he didn't crash, but his tour was done. Carbon bars have practically an infinite fatigue life. That said, if there were some performance advantage, all pros would use carbon. I can't justify spending so much more for a carbon bar.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

tlg said:


> I'd also like to know how many pros actually ride a bike after it's crashed. If they crash, the bike gets swapped during the race. Does it get retired afterwards or "refurbished" and put back in rotation?


Just a SWAG, but it probably depends on the severity of the crash.

Frankly, I don't really much care how those issues are dealt with in those kinds of races. Their bikes basically get stripped down and largely rebuilt after every race - every component gets cleaned, inspected, adjusted, lubed or replaced. I don't do that, but then my success doesn't depend on the bike between my legs.

What I do find insightful from the pro racing scene is the proving ground element. What works, what doesn't, why, and the basis for various choices. A point worth remembering is that most of their equipment and gear is supplied by sponsors, so they have a different perspective on risk. For them it's about the risk of not being competitive. That's not even in my equation.


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## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

When I switched bar sizes, I went from an Easton EC90 to an aluminum ZIPP bar. I went to an aluminum bar to test if I would like using a narrower bar. I liked the bar enough that I didn't bother to go with another carbon bar. I could not tell the difference.

When it comes to impacts on a carbon bar...its hit or miss.

Friend of mine had a 3T Ergonova Team. He tipped over and fell when a car pulled out in front of him. Everything looked ok so we rode off. A few days later while mashing...he noticed that his bar was flexing more than normal. He took off the tape to find that the bar was cracked. Where the tops transitions to the drop.

I also know a guy that crashed at a crit...smashed a lever...and the carbon bars are still being used.


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## turbogrover (Jan 1, 2006)

I have a set of weight weenie carbon bars, and I notice they flex more when I'm standing up mashing, or sprinting than the aluminum bars, or even my other set of carbon bars.
There's a lot less material there, so they're probably more prone to breaking than the heavier ones, but that would be true regardless of material choice. Any superlight part is going to compromise strength. 
I'm no longer a crit racer, so I prioritized comfort and lightweight, over rigidity and durability from crashes.

Also note,
Pro racers have no issues riding on carbon fiber cranksets. The area that receives the highest amount of rider force and power. No one ever fears of their carbon crankset asploding.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

I had similar Deda bars, one pair aluminum and then switched to carbon.
Weight difference was trivial but the carbon bars did feel better.
I currently use PRO Vibe carbon bars that are heavier than a lot of aluminum bars. They feel nice, better than identical PRO aluminum bars.
I also use carbon bars on my mountain bike. I have fallen lots and they are fine. 
If money is a factor go aluminum.
The only bars I have ever broken were the notoriously-prone-to-break Cinelli Top 64 bars. They were predrilled for internal brake cables. They had a nice blue finish, some said it was from heat treatment but may have been just colour anodising.

Regarding "what pros use", I have seen Team Sky up close lots. Some guys use alloy and some use carbon. Some switch back and forth. 
Using "the pros" as a reference when two guys on the same team riding the same race are using different bars?


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhOfdwiocYk

Contador running carbon stem and handlebar, both from FSA.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

tvad said:


> Thomson Carbon Road bars are my favorite bars of all time. Love 'em.


I'd love for them to produce a "wing" type bar like the K-Wing or the Spec Aerofly


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

ziscwg said:


> Also for carbon bars, stay away from FSA stems. For what ever reason, the two FSA stems I have used were a tad small in the clamping area. The made a clamp mark in the FSA K-Wing and Easton bars.





deviousalex said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhOfdwiocYk
> 
> Contador running carbon stem and handlebar, both from FSA.


Crap... Tinkoff-Saxo didn't get the memo. I wonder how many of their FSA bars will fail.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

tlg said:


> Crap... Tinkoff-Saxo didn't get the memo. I wonder how many of their FSA bars will fail.


They are just setting up an excuse in case their GCs drop out of a grand tour.


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

I been using a $60 generic carbon bar from ICAN in Shenzhen for about three years and 12K miles now. I think it weighed 225g if memory serves. It's very, very durable, the decorative weave is nice and I like the shape. I haven't noticed any "damping", that seems like marketing hype. This bar is extremely stiff when out of the saddle, I can say that. The clamping section of the bar is roughened epoxy which eliminates the need for grip paste and allows you to run lower torque. Honestly I think you'd have a tough time over-torquing and crushing this bar... it's pretty robust. It's as good as any other fairly nice $60 bar. Spending more than about $100 on a handlebar seems a little silly to me. I don't really care what it's made out of, I guess. What matters is shape and fit.


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## Keoki (Feb 13, 2012)

wchevron said:


> Looking to replace my handlebar. Is it worth upgrading to a carbon one. If so, what's the difference between the two?


Yes, carbon bars are awesome. Go with either the Zipp SLC2 bar or the Enve Compact Road bar.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

2 terms that just don't go together. 



turbogrover said:


> I have a set of *weight weenie* carbon bars, and I notice they flex more when I'm standing up mashing, or* sprinting* than the aluminum bars, or even my other set of carbon bars.
> There's a lot less material there, so they're probably more prone to breaking than the heavier ones, but that would be true regardless of material choice. Any superlight part is going to compromise strength.
> I'm no longer a crit racer, so I prioritized comfort and lightweight, over rigidity and durability from crashes.
> 
> ...


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

tlg said:


> Crap... Tinkoff-Saxo didn't get the memo. I wonder how many of their FSA bars will fail.


I don't know. I can only speak of the 2 FSA stems I have had. 


Contador needs to worry more about his specialized frame splitting in half from just "riding around France"


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

ziscwg said:


> Contador needs to worry more about his specialized frame splitting in half from just "riding around France"


Contador's last bike frame split in half because he hit a pothole while riding one handed and eating then hitting the deck at 45mph. It did not suddenly explode as all the carbon haters want everyone to believe.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

ziscwg said:


> I don't know. I can only speak of the 2 FSA stems I have had.
> 
> 
> Contador needs to worry more about his specialized frame splitting in half from just "riding around France"


And Peter Sagan? He'll be using them too.


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

deviousalex said:


> Contador's last bike frame split in half because he hit a pothole while riding one handed and eating then hitting the deck at 45mph. It did not suddenly explode as all the carbon haters want everyone to believe.


No. The frame Contador crashed never broke, it was the replacement frame on Astana's roof rack that broke when another team car ran into it.


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## mambo (Jul 29, 2012)

NJBiker72 said:


> Also you should not use aero bars with carbon. So if that is a consideration stick with alloy. Carbon came with my bike but if I was to replace again, I would go alloy.


This is incorrect. Some carbon bars are designed to work with aero bars. Usally this will appear in the description.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Hiro11 said:


> No. The frame Contador crashed never broke, it was the replacement frame on Astana's roof rack that broke when another team car ran into it.


^True.

A perfect example of how erroneous information gets re-enforced as fact on the internet through repeated commentary.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

If anyone is going to get a carbon bar, whatever you do, do NOT buy Chinese Ebay carbon bars. These will easily fold at the clamp! That is all I have to say regarding carbon bars.


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## mimason (Oct 7, 2006)

Im in the aluminum camp and like the PRO VIBE bars best due to geometry, fat tops and overall performance.

Im not sure if this was previously mentioned but regarding aluminum bars for safety reasons I replace them every TWO years to avoid sweat corrosion issues that could cause premature breakage. Inspecting at each handlebar tape replacement interval is also recommended. I ride 8-10k miles a years and live in a warm climate.


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## BoulderGeek (Sep 19, 2005)

I swapped out the Modolo 44cm classic aluminum bars on my Serotta for Easton EC90s. I think that it definitely made for a smoother feel. Plus, large hands with Campy's small hoods seem to magnigy vibration sensations for me, as I ride hoods 80% or more.

I liked it so much, i did the same to my scandium-framed travel bike. Might be placebo, but i prefer carbon for the human interface parts: bars, crankarms, seatpost. Ti rails on the saddle. I guess I like a cush ride on classic road bike geometry.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

The new Zipp Service Course SL bar and stem are pretty much as light as any carbon bar and stem, but without hte durability concerns + they are like half the price.

http://www.zipp.com/media/pdfs/zipp_product_service course_media_en.pdf


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Rashadabd said:


> The new Zipp Service Course SL bar and stem are pretty much *as light as any carbon bar and stem, but without hte durability concerns *+ they are like half the price.
> 
> http://www.zipp.com/media/pdfs/zipp_product_service course_media_en.pdf


I would have far greater "durability concerns" for a lightweight alloy bar than a comparable weight, well made carbon composite bar.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

I also use Easton carbon bars on my mountain bike. 

Regarding sprinting, Cavendish used a signature carbon bar that was enormously stiff and not fragile at all. 

And about the Contador bike breaking, yes that was when the Bianchi car sideswiped the Saxo car. I wonder if Bianchi paid for a replacement or if it was just accepted as "part of racing"?


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> I also use Easton carbon bars on my mountain bike.
> 
> Regarding sprinting, Cavendish used a signature carbon bar that was enormously stiff and not fragile at all.
> 
> And about the Contador bike breaking, *yes that was when the Bianchi car sideswiped the Saxo car. *I wonder if Bianchi paid for a replacement or if it was just accepted as "part of racing"?



No, that is what Specialized wants you to think happened. They paid and pressured everyone involved to sing the same story. Specialize's reach goes for beyond their lawyers and marketing muscle. I'm telling you, Spec is out to control the entire cycling world. 

Contrador's frame broke because he and Spec were testing an anti gravity enhancement to his bike. It makes the bike nearly weightless. The device malfunctioned after his crash and put to much stress on the bike. It's all at TheOnion.com


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

ziscwg said:


> Contrador's frame broke because he and Spec *were testing an anti gravity enhancement* to his bike.


Cool.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

ibericb said:


> Why not?


Clamp on aero bars can crush a carbon bar. Carbon bars must be specifically designed for clamp on aero bars.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Blue CheeseHead said:


> Clamp on aero bars can crush a carbon bar. Carbon bars must be specifically designed for clamp on aero bars.


Addressed this a week ago. Try to keep up.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

ibericb said:


> I would have far greater "durability concerns" for a lightweight alloy bar than a comparable weight, well made carbon composite bar.


I wouldn't. I have had multiple sets of Zipp Service Course SL bars and I have dropped bikes and crashed and never had a durability problem with the bars. As noted by others above, you can't always say the same thing when it comes to the carbon bars that you may be paying double to triple for. That's just my opinion though.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Rashadabd said:


> I wouldn't. I have had multiple sets of Zipp Service Course SL bars and I have dropeed bikes and crashed and never had a durability problem with the bars. As noted by others above, you can't always say the same thing when it comes to the carbon bars that you may be paying double to triple for. That's just my opinion though.


It's a comparison, not an absolute evaluation. It's good that your Zipp bars survived well. That, however, says nothing about their relative durability. In general, well made carbon composites will take more force to damage than conventional Al alloys, and carbon composites aren't limited by fatigue as Al alloys are. By all conventional material measures, carbon composites are more durable than Al alloys n the same application. But don't take my word for it - ask Boeing.

Cost wasn't the issue in my response to your prior post..


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

ibericb said:


> It's a comparison, not an absolute evaluation. It's good that your Zipp bars survived well. That, however, says nothing about their relative durability. In general, well made carbon composites will take more force to damage than conventional Al alloys, and carbon composites aren't limited by fatigue as Al alloys are. By all conventional material measures, carbon composites are more durable than Al alloys n the same application. But don't take my word for it - ask Boeing.
> 
> Cost wasn't the issue in my response to your prior post..


Are you trolling or do you just believe everything you read and hear from marketing execs? Believe whatever you want man, you are absolutely entitled to it, but the weight of years of experience on this site alone tells me you are wrong. Do you know how many comments on this site have been made just like yours about carbon frames only to be followed by just as many comments complaining about cracks and failing in carbon frames? Too many to count buddy, too many to count. Do a search if you don't believe me. 

Now, I happen to be a fan of carbon and I prefer carbon bikes to every other material I have ridden at this point. I also really like some companies' carbon wheels (Zipp and Reynolds for instance). That being said, I just don't think the value is there for carbon bars all things considered. Handlebars get banged around too much and I have heard of too many people having issues with durability. I have never heard of a quality set of alloy bars failing unexpectedly however (especially under circumstances like the one that follows). To each his own though. 

For your consideration:

Lennard Zinn Gallery: Neutral Support and Podium Dangers at the Derby City Cup - VeloNews.com

Technical FAQ: Yes, I still race cyclocross on carbon bars - VeloNews.com


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Rashadabd said:


> Are you trolling or do you just believe everything you read and hear from marketing execs? Believe whatever you want man, you are absolutely entitled to it, but the weight of years of experience on this site alone tells me you are wrong. Do you know how many comments on this site have been made just like yours about carbon frames only to be followed by just as many comments complaining about cracks and failing in carbon frames? Too many to count buddy, too many to count. Do a search if you don't believe me.


None of the above. I do have, however, 30 years of advanced materials development experience (now retired), including many years developing advanced composites for the likes of NASA and DARPA.

Like I said, don't take my word for it - ask Boeing.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

ibericb said:


> None of the above. I do have, however, 30 years of advanced materials development experience (now retired), including many years developing advanced composites for the likes of NASA and DARPA.
> 
> Like I said, don't take my word for it - ask Boeing.


Uh huh... you and every other guy on here describing carbon as indestructible. That resume is posted on here 14 million times a day as well (again, do a search). You are all material experts and engineers of some sort that just happen to spend hours on here yapping with us hacks. Fine, that's great if you have accomplished those things. That has nothing to do with the fact that you can't refute anything I posted in my last post. We don't need to ask Boeing about Lennard Zinn's handlebars failing because a bike stand got blown over. We might want to ask ourselves whether we want to spend $300+ for a set of bars only to end up in the same situaiton, however....


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Rashadabd said:


> Uh huh... you and every other guy on here describing carbon as indestructible.


Never said any such thing. You seem to have a vivid imagination. 

I'd be the first to tell you that all materials are generally destructible. The question again was a comparison of a lightweight alloy handlebar vs. your broad generalization about carbon composite bars. I am not an advocate for either one. Both will work well as handlebar materials. But they both have their limitations. The properties of both classes of materials as they are used in contemporary handlebars are well known, including a number of measures of durability. Your broad characterization of durability is quite simply wrong.



> That resume is posted on here 14 million times a day as well (again, do a search). You are all material experts and engineers of some sort that just happen to spend hours on here yapping with us hacks. Fine, that's great if you have accomplished those things. That has nothing to do with the fact that you can't refute anything I posted in my last post. We don't need to ask Boeing about Lennard Zinn's handlebars failing because a bike stand got blown over. We might want to ask ourselves whether we want to spend $300+ for a set of bars only to end up in the same situaiton, however....


Exaggerating and ranting doesn't make your point for you.

Look, it's clear you haven't a clue about materials science or composite materials. You are free to believe whatever you wish. But I hope you appreciate that by avoiding the realities, and clinging to a number of myths, you have chosen a path of ignorance.

Since you have chosen alloy bars over carbon composite (nothing wrong with that choice) do some study on the fatigue lifetime of aluminum alloys.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

ibericb said:


> Never said any such thing. You seem to have a vivid imagination.
> 
> I'd be the first to tell you that all materials are generally destructible. The question again was a comparison of a lightweight alloy handlebar vs. your broad generalization about carbon composite bars. I am not an advocate for either one. Both will work well as handlebar materials. But they both have their limitations. The properties of both classes of materials as they are used in contemporary handlebars are well known, including a number of measures of durability. Your broad characterization of durability is quite simply wrong.
> 
> ...


You don't know what I know or what anyone else on this site does, frankly. More importantly, again, you haven't addressed anything that has been raised and simply reposted your resume indirectly. If the premise you led with is so true, then provide some evidence of these "more fragile alloy bars" failing regularly or refute what I have posted about carbon bars. If you can't, I say we drop it and let Zinn's handlebars (and others like them) speak for themselves.  Bygones....


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

For those of you that decide you do want carbon bars, these are the ones I am hearing the most positive reports on. How much is marketing hype, I don't know.

Ultimate Control: The Ritchey Cockpit ‹ Peloton


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Rashadabd said:


> For those of you that decide you do want carbon bars, these are the ones I am hearing the most positive reports on.


Thanks. Please provide links to the positive reports on these bars .


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Rashadabd said:


> You don't know what I know or what anyone else on this site does, frankly. More importantly, again, you haven't addressed anything that has been raised and simply reposted your resume indirectly. If the premise you led with is so true, then provide some evidence of these "more fragile alloy bars" failing regularly or refute what I have posted about carbon bars. If you can't, I say we drop it and let Zinn's handlebars (and others like them) speak for themselves.  Bygones....



There you go with your imagination again. I never said alloy was more fragile. I never said "failing regularly". Those are your words, not mine.

There isn't anything for me to refute, because you never presented anything factual. 

If you really want to understand the fundamentals, then do the study. The materials science is well developed, but you won't find it from Lennard Zinn. He's a great mechanic, but he's not a materials expert.


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

Here's an article from Zinn Cycles regarding metal fatigue.
Metal Fatigue | Zinn Cycles website


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

redondoaveb said:


> Here's an article from Zinn Cycles regarding metal fatigue.
> Metal Fatigue | Zinn Cycles website


What bars? The article is actually about "big riders" and the stress they can put on components. Here it is talking about metal fatigue. I am not refuting that all bars and materials are capable of failing at some point or in some circumstances, but I do take issue with this: "I would have *far greater* "durability concerns" for a lightweight alloy bar than a comparable weight, well made carbon composite bar." I would love to see some direct evidence related to bike handle bars to support it if it exists. If not, I say we drop it like I said.


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

Rashadabd said:


> What bars? The article is actually about "big riders" and the stress they can put on components. Here it is talking about metal fatigue. I am not refuting that all bars and materials are capable of failing at some point or in some circumstances, but I do take issue with this: "I would have *far greater* "durability concerns" for a lightweight alloy bar than a comparable weight, well made carbon composite bar." I would love to see some direct evidence related to bike handle bars to support it if it exists. If not, I say we drop it like I said.


What makes you think that post was directed at you? I found an article from Zinn that pertains to the thread and posted it. And I don't think this is going to get dropped because you say it should.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Again you missed the point - it was about fatigue in Al, which I suggested you appraise yourself of since you favor Al bars.

The article cited is also about material fatigue in general. Catch in the first paragraph: "_All metals other than aluminum have a “fatigue limit,” which is the stress below which failure will never occur. With aluminum, failure can occur even at very low stresses, given enough stress applications."_ It's inherent with aluminum; it's material feature that comes with aluminum.

You want to focus only handlebars? Okay, same quality of source as Zinn's columns here (emphasis added):
Ask Nick: Carbon handlebar lifespan ...

_*Q.* Nick,
What is a reasonable fatigue life for a carbon mountain bike bar and stem? I have a Ritchey WCS carbon bar and aluminum stem that are three years old and have seen a fair amount of use over three seasons. I am a skinny cross-country rider and racer, no hucking, haven’t hit anything, etc.
— Jeff Carter

*A*. Jeff,
I asked the fine people at Ritchey and Easton your question. Best to go straight to the source on these sorts of questions. Here are their replies.

*Sean Coffey of Ritchey*:
“Any well-made carbon component should be removed and inspected periodically for damage (especially after crashes, shipping or any trauma) *but barring any damage, carbon does not have a fatigue life like alloy components and does not fatigue over time.* So in theory an undamaged carbon component should hold up indefinitely under normal riding and racing circumstance. However crashes and damage from over-clamping can dramatically reduce durability.”

*Chuck Teixeira, Director of Bike Advanced Concepts Group at Easton*:
*“Carbon bars are so good in fatigue that we almost think it’s a waste of time to test them because they always pass. Carbon’s fatigue life is nearly unlimited because carbon has a very different type of structure than metals.* What fails carbon bars is compression from clamping levers, stems, constant re-adjusting and clamping or big hits/crashes. *Our lab testing has documented that carbon bars fatigue is easily five times better than aluminum. Impact strength is also better on carbon and will withstand much higher energies before breaking.* Aluminum bars start to bend at comparably low energy and do give you an idea that something is changing and that maybe its time to replace them. Any metal bar can fail unexpectedly under the correct conditions so they cannot be expected to last forever. If you’re a big hucker who never crashes or never moves anything you could easily get five years out of a carbon DH bar. If you’re a skinny, cross-country rider who travels, tweaks his position, changes parts or takes frequent little diggers you might only two years out of your bars. Sorry, nothing is black and white.”

There you have it. Assuming your bars don’t have damage from the clamping of your stem, shifters and brake levers, your bar should last you for a couple more years. Your best course of action is to pull them off every year and check them for obvious signs of over clamping._​


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

ibericb said:


> Again you missed the point - it was about fatigue in Al, which I suggested you appraise yourself of since you favor Al bars.
> 
> The article cited is also about material fatigue in general. Catch in the first paragraph: "_All metals other than aluminum have a “fatigue limit,” which is the stress below which failure will never occur. With aluminum, failure can occur even at very low stresses, given enough stress applications."_ It's inherent with aluminum; it's material feature that comes with aluminum.
> 
> ...


This does more to prove my point than undermine it. If you look at all of my posts, my point and concern has not been about natural failure or fatigue over time when it comes to carbon handlebars (which I don't think happens to many riders on either type of bars), but damage due to impact or crashes (which I feel confident is a real possibility for lots of riders). Carbon is prone to damage there and alloy bars tend to hold up significantly better in those situations in my experience. That is what led me to quesiton this statement: "I would have far greater "durability concerns" for a lightweight alloy bar than a comparable weight, well made carbon composite bar." Maybe you are talking long-term fatigue while I am talking damage from impact or a crash, etc., but I don't see how the article above supports your point. It's interesting that you stopped your bolding here: "What fails carbon bars is compression from clamping levers, stems, constant re-adjusting and clamping or big hits/crashes." This is what concerns some people about carbon bars in my opinion, particularly when they are paying significantly more. Most folks just aren't experiencing failure over time or corrosion, etc. with their alloy bars that I know of. Couple this with the fact that the weight is pretty close and carbon bars cost significantly more and that's why some of us say the value really isn't there for carbon handlebars. That's the point I was trying to make.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Rashadabd said:


> Carbon is prone to damage there and alloy bars tend to hold up significantly better in those situations in my experience.


Generally, no. Note where Teixeri (Easton rep) said just the opposite: "_Impact strength is also better on carbon and will withstand much higher energies before breaking._" That is well known -for comparable strengths in the same general shape, carbon fiber composites will generally endure greater impact without failure than Al.

The reasons carbon gets the misguided reputation you keep reciting is because they don't show their damage before failure, as Al alloys do (they get bent first). The downside of carbon bars for apparent damage tolerance is that they hide their damage well, and even though they will tolerate greater force before failure (i.e., more durable) you can get surprised where an alloy bar will tell you it's been damaged by its shape. Alloy warns you after impact, carbon doesn't. Therein lies a hidden danger that needs to be appreciated. But the material fact is carbon is more durable.



> That is what led me to quesiton this statement: "I would have far greater "durability concerns" for a lightweight alloy bar than a comparable weight, well made carbon composite bar." Maybe you are talking long-term fatigue while I am talking damage from impact or a crash, etc., but I don't see how the article above supports your point.


Actually for durability I was considering both fatigue (non-existent in carbon composites) and impact damage tolerance (superior in carbon composites, as noted above).



> It's interesting that you stopped your bolding here: "What fails carbon bars is compression from clamping levers, stems, constant re-adjusting and clamping or big hits/crashes."


I quit bolding because the immediate topic was fatigue, but I included the entire comment as it is germain to the topic

I pointed to the issue of carbon composite's susceptibility to excessive clamping forces (compression) a week ago.



> This is what concerns some people about carbon bars in my opinion, particularly when they are paying significantly more. Most folks just aren't experiencing failure over time or corrosion, etc. with their alloy bars that I know of. Couple this with the fact that the weight is pretty close and carbon bars cost significantly more and that's why some of us say the value really isn't there for carbon handlebars. That's the point I was trying to make.


Most people aren't experiencing handlebar failure for any reason, as best I know. But if you consider the various modes of failure that are known to occur (corrosion, fatigue, impact), carbon fiber would generally be the winner in each of those. The clamping force issue is a potential for abuse. The major downside of carbon fiber composites is the cost, for little real practical advantage, which is the point I made in my first post in this thread , also a week ago.


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## Sanders (May 13, 2013)

Rashadabd said:


> Carbon is prone to damage there and alloy bars tend to hold up significantly better in those situations in my experience.


I've been following this thread and wanted to get some information into the scale here.
I'm gonna link two youtube video's of some home testing carbon and steel.
Yes steel, as far as I know Al has not been tested, but from its molecular structure and knowledge of the Al material we all know Al is even softer than steel so keep that in mind.

http://youtu.be/orapDwtG0P4

http://youtu.be/PvLswIWTmmI


Carbon is a proven material not only in road racing but also high ranked car races, aviation and astronautics.
It all depends on how the carbon is built up and designed to withstand stress in a certain direction.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Carbon bars allows the sucker, err I mean buyer, to spend a lot of money for a very tiny bit of improvement. Once you get those carbon bars don't forget to get some carbon bottle cages, I hear they dampen vibration better so the bottles last longer plus as an added benefit you get to spend more money. Don't forget too that looks is worth hearing the sound all that money being sucked out of your wallet.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

froze said:


> Carbon bars allows the sucker, err I mean buyer, to spend a lot of money for a very tiny bit of improvement.


Well, thanks for that, Captain Penurious.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

froze said:


> Carbon bars allows the sucker, err I mean buyer, to spend a lot of money for a very tiny bit of improvement. Once you get those carbon bars don't forget to get some carbon bottle cages, I hear they dampen vibration better so the bottles last longer plus as an added benefit you get to spend more money. Don't forget too that looks is worth hearing the sound all that money being sucked out of your wallet.


Some people are willing to pay for for a tiny bit of improvement. After all, that is how it seems to work with just about everything. Dishwashers, component groups, cars, computers, clothing and even food. You are only a sucker if you throw money away uninformed.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

froze said:


> Carbon bars allows the sucker, err I mean buyer, to spend a lot of money for a very tiny bit of improvement. Once you get those carbon bars don't forget to get some carbon bottle cages, I hear they dampen vibration better so the bottles last longer plus as an added benefit you get to spend more money. Don't forget too that looks is worth hearing the sound all that money being sucked out of your wallet.


I like my carbon bars AND my bottle cages (they were $10/pair on eBay).

Your war on carbon has got to the point where you are insulting and condescending to point where you are assuming everyone who buys a product x is a uninformed consumer that can't make rational choices (i.e. worse than the religious fanatics that knock on people's doors). This would be the same as me implying that you can not afford carbon and are jealous. 

I like to ride equipment that is light on the upper half (I climb out of saddle generally and like the ability to easily move the top tube of the bike from side to side).

I know the risks assumed by crashing them (I've crashed one carbon bar and scraped some carbon off of it..and raced it again and again and again) and knowing I have the $$ to replace them I don't care. Is it shocking to you that people like to buy things that make them happy?

Please post a pic of your bike so we can all ridicule you for your choices. 

TL;DR Why is up to YOU to tell people where to spend their money?


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

My $70 carbon bar with integrated stem from

http://www.gotobike.com.cn/

are the best value and gives the best performance.

They are slightly flexible, so I don't need bar tape to damp vibrations.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

@Froze I also forgot to add I really like my carbon tubulars that I use for racing. They are stiff, well built wheels and they make cool swooshing sounds that make me feel like I'm going really fast. They also got me on the podium more than once by (nudged out a guy in a race with 5.5k ft of climbing by 30ft, and nudged out another sprinter by 4 inches).


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

froze said:


> Carbon bars allows the sucker, err I mean buyer, to spend a lot of money for a very tiny bit of improvement. Once you get those carbon bars don't forget to get some carbon bottle cages, I hear they dampen vibration better so the bottles last longer plus as an added benefit you get to spend more money. Don't forget too that looks is worth hearing the sound all that money being sucked out of your wallet.


11sp allows the sucker, err I mean buyer to spend a lot of money for a very tiny bit of improvement.
10sp allows the sucker, err I mean buyer to spend a lot of money for a very tiny bit of improvement.
9sp allows the sucker, err I mean buyer to spend a lot of money for a very tiny bit of improvement.
8sp allows the sucker, err I mean buyer to spend a lot of money for a very tiny bit of improvement.
7sp allows the sucker, err I mean buyer to spend a lot of money for a very tiny bit of improvement.

We're all suckers to some extent. I'm sure you're not riding a 6sp with downtube shifters.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Ti frames allow the sucker, err I mean buyer, to spend a lot of money on something they think is "unique" when really it's just two triangles welded together.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

myhui said:


> My $70 carbon bar with integrated stem from
> 
> carbon bike manufacture,bike frames,carbon rims,carbon forks,carbon bike parts,carbon disc
> 
> ...


This is exactly what I wouldn't trust, structural parts (of any material) from a random OEM factory.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

deviousalex said:


> This is exactly what I wouldn't trust, structural parts (of any material) from a random OEM factory.


I've ride it a thousand times.

Works perfectly.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

myhui said:


> I've ride it a thousand times.
> 
> Works perfectly.


Thousands of times would imply you've had this bar at least 3 years and rode it everyday.

Your bar may be fine, but it's a complete crap shoot with picking these factories.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

deviousalex said:


> Your bar may be fine, but it's a complete crap shoot with picking these factories.


Every factory is different.

I like this factory.

Their products perform.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

myhui said:


> Every factory is different.
> 
> I like this factory.
> 
> Their products perform.


Hence my point, every factory is different. Do you know whether this is an actual factory or just a reseller that consolidates products from multiple factories?

Also, no offense but I don't really trust you for product reviews.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

deviousalex said:


> Hence my point, every factory is different. Do you know whether this is an actual factory or just a reseller that consolidates products from multiple factories?
> 
> Also, no offense but I don't really trust you for product reviews.


My product reviews go counter to your publicly stated opinion.

That's so unfortunate.


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## S11loop (Dec 13, 2012)

deviousalex said:


> Ti frames allow the sucker, err I mean buyer, to spend a lot of money on something they think is "unique" when really it's just two triangles welded together.


Not to mention the tube shape all looks the same and totally boring beaten to death look. Best reply ever!


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

tvad said:


> Well, thanks for that, Captain Penurious.


Wow, did you open your thesaurus today for that one? You can call me John for short.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Tschai said:


> You are only a sucker if you throw money away uninformed.


I stand corrected, the way you put is more accurate.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

deviousalex said:


> I like my carbon bars AND my bottle cages (they were $10/pair on eBay).
> 
> Your war on carbon has got to the point where you are insulting and condescending to point where you are assuming everyone who buys a product x is a uninformed consumer that can't make rational choices (i.e. worse than the religious fanatics that knock on people's doors). This would be the same as me implying that you can not afford carbon and are jealous.
> 
> ...


All I stated was an opinion, I never said told them how to spend their money as you are implying. It may shock you that one of my bikes has carbon fiber forks, not that I had much of a choice though. Now I could take what you said to be just plain mean, but you too were just voicing an opinion, which is what these forums are all about, I bet I could go back and search through all your posts and find posts where you recommended someone to buy a certain product, in other words where to spend their money, did I attack you for doing that? no because it's just your opinion. Welcome to the world of forums. Here is one case of you doing that; see: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/deep-carbon-clinchers-under-$1000-342858.html post #7. Really? Williams? do you work for them? have stock in their company? See where I could have taken that? Same place you just did.

My "war" on carbon...HEHEHEHEHEE.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

froze said:


> All I stated was an opinion, I never said told them how to spend their money as you are implying. It may shock you that one of my bikes has carbon fiber forks, not that I had much of a choice though. Now I could take what you said to be just plain mean, but you too were just voicing an opinion, which is what these forums are all about, I bet I could go back and search through all your posts and find posts where you recommended someone to buy a certain product, in other words where to spend their money, did I attack you for doing that? no because it's just your opinion. Welcome to the world of forums. Here is one case of you doing that; see: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/deep-carbon-clinchers-under-$1000-342858.html post #7. Really? Williams? do you work for them? have stock in their company? See where I could have taken that? Same place you just did.
> 
> My "war" on carbon...HEHEHEHEHEE.


You did not state an opinion about a product, you stated that anyone who buys a carbon bar is a sucker. 

As for Williams if you look through other threads I have mentioned many products depending upon the person's needs (including alloy wheels, shocking!). At the end of the day I don't care who buys what. I have no skin in the game, I'm a software engineer that works for Cisco systems. If you see me telling people why they should buy a Nexus 9000 then you can get suspicious.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

Lance, Carbon bars... Lance, Carbon bars....


Let me think about this...


No, let me not think about this. ;O


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

deviousalex said:


> You did not state an opinion about a product, you stated that anyone who buys a carbon bar is a sucker.
> 
> As for Williams if you look through other threads I have mentioned many products depending upon the person's needs (including alloy wheels, shocking!). At the end of the day I don't care who buys what. I have no skin in the game, I'm a software engineer that works for Cisco systems. If you see me telling people why they should buy a Nexus 9000 then you can get suspicious.


Right, that's why you didn't mention any other wheel but Williams because there were none on earth that would fit what that OP wanted...next please.


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

ibericb said:


> Look, it's clear you haven't a clue about materials science or composite materials.


I have worked for the same customers you mentioned, and you're 100% right. Don't even waste time on the clueless. I bet the clown you're sparring with has never seen, nor would have a clue about an S-N Curve. LOL.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

froze said:


> Right, that's why you didn't mention any other wheel but Williams because there were none on earth that would fit what that OP wanted...next please.


Maybe you should read the whole thread. I talk about RaceRim as well as Mercury and give my experience with each of them (i.e. not much).

I may not think some of the other offerings are a good idea (i.e. Flo) but notice how I didn't call the person who suggested them a sucker.

You seem to fail to see my issue with your post. It's not that you don't like carbon handlebars (that's fine if you don't, you can have brand preferences too!), it's that you call anyone who buys the product a sucker. You're assuming that people can't make rational decisions about the parts they are purchasing and believe only marketing myths.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

froze said:


> Carbon bars allows the sucker, err I mean buyer, to spend a lot of money for a very tiny bit of improvement. Once you get those carbon bars don't forget to get some carbon bottle cages, I hear they dampen vibration better so the bottles last longer plus as an added benefit you get to spend more money. Don't forget too that looks is worth hearing the sound all that money being sucked out of your wallet.


You haven't ridden good carbon bars have you?

Or, your roads in your area are pristine and you never venture onto a dirt road to get to a nice ride.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

myhui said:


> My $70 carbon bar with integrated stem from
> 
> carbon bike manufacture,bike frames,carbon rims,carbon forks,carbon bike parts,carbon disc
> 
> ...


That is not the primary function of tape. Do a ride in humidity and 85 deg F for an hour or so. Then, sprint in the drops for 1 minute. It's kind of slippery without tape.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

Tschai said:


> Some people are willing to pay for for a tiny bit of improvement.  After all, that is how it seems to work with just about everything. Dishwashers, component groups, cars, computers, clothing and even food. You are only a sucker if you throw money away uninformed.


Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
The let him insult the WW here by saying that paying an extra $50 for saving 5 gr is stupid and they are suckers.

Here's the deal,
Whoever buys carbon, Ti, Al, whatever has to see value in it. Call me a sucker for dropping $230 on my Thomson KFC One carbon bars if you will. However, since it's my bike and I'm used to 140-160 mm of squish on my mtb, I will take anything I can get. That reduction in vibration is of big value to me on those 40+ mile rides


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## expatbrit (Oct 16, 2013)

deviousalex said:


> You did not state an opinion about a product, you stated that anyone who buys a carbon bar is a sucker.
> 
> As for Williams if you look through other threads I have mentioned many products depending upon the person's needs (including alloy wheels, shocking!). At the end of the day I don't care who buys what. I have no skin in the game, I'm a software engineer that works for Cisco systems. If you see me telling people why they should buy a Nexus 9000 then you can get suspicious.


I'd be more worried if it was ASA-CX.


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## Blackbeerthepirate (Apr 26, 2011)

I have an FSA K wing compact, on one bike. For me, there is no noticeable difference in vibration over aluminum bars until I've ridden a couple of hours. After that, the material, different hand positions, whatever, make for a much more enjoyable ride. So, for me, the difference in price has been well worth it. And unlike many I've seen, I go ahead and wrap the tops with microtex. I'm not really clear why you wouldn't but I see a lot of that.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

Blackbeerthepirate said:


> I have an FSA K wing compact, on one bike. For me, there is no noticeable difference in vibration over aluminum bars until I've ridden a couple of hours. After that, the material, different hand positions, whatever, make for a much more enjoyable ride. So, for me, the difference in price has been well worth it. And unlike many I've seen, I go ahead and wrap the tops with microtex. I'm not really clear why you wouldn't but I see a lot of that.


One of the reasons people don't wrap the tops on wing bars is because the mfg usually make them look pretty cool. 

Also, you don't really need grip there. Usually one is just resting the hands on the tops. What are you going to do, sprint with your hands on the tops????? ahhh, No.

Also, wrapping the wing bar tops makes them rather big which makes them feel weird when have your hands on the tops in a sprint.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Have been in my share of pile ups. Somebody always looses their nerve going to the line. I'm up to (7) for the number of busted carbon bars I've seen. Have never seen a busted alloy bar.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

metoou2 said:


> Have been in my share of pile ups. Somebody always looses their nerve going to the line. I'm up to (7) for the number of busted carbon bars I've seen. Have never seen a busted alloy bar.


I was going to mention this wee bit of a problem with CF bars but I would have gotten tons of hate mail. Being around race circuit (non Pro) and riding for 40 years I've never seen a broken alloy bar either, I've seen them bend though. Supposedly we were suppose to replace the bars every 3 years but I never did and never had a problem. Alloy bars had a way of warning you too with a creaking sound, CF won't warn you. I only replace a alloy bar once after it got bent in an accident, and a second time after I got through with racing and wanted a shallower drop bar.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

It would seem like a no-brainer to use alloy bars if racing...

Otherwise...user's choice.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

froze said:


> I was going to mention this wee bit of a problem with CF bars but I would have gotten tons of hate mail. Being around race circuit (non Pro) and riding for 40 years I've never seen a broken alloy bar either, I've seen them bend though. Supposedly we were suppose to replace the bars every 3 years but I never did and never had a problem. * Alloy bars had a way of warning you too with a creaking sound, CF won't warn you*. I only replace a alloy bar once after it got bent in an accident, and a second time after I got through with racing and wanted a shallower drop bar.


Yep! And therein lies a problem for those not paying attention. Alloy bars tend to bend before they completely fail, and any bent alloy bar should be considered trashed and replaced. A decent carbon composite bar (and there are a bunch of not so decent ones out there on the cheap) will take greater force and abuse than an alloy bar before breaking. Unfortunately for those not sufficiently attentive, they also hide any weakening damage rather well until they completely fail (and can do so quite suddenly). That's why, after any cash, carbon composite bars should be suspect, and carefully inspected. 

I suspect many of the surprising carbon bar "asplosion" failures are with bars that were previously damaged, most likely in a crash or from rough handling and neglected because they weren't bent, or by a hamfisted "mechanic" who paid no attention to torque specs, and crushed the bar at the stem.

Carbon composite is both stronger and tougher, alloy is more forgiving of neglect.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

ibericb said:


> That's why, after any cash, carbon composite bars should be suspect, and carefully inspected.


This is why anytime I've had a crash with any carbon handlebars I give them a few good punches and see if they break.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

I had carbon bars on my old 2005 Orbea Onix. I liked them because they were flattened near the stem, so the added surface area greatly reduced pressure on my palms. As far as vibration dampening goes, I think it's inconsequential. You have to consider the mass of your bars in comparison to the frame, fork, and tires. Your first line of defense in absorbing vibration is the pressure and rubber softness of your tires. Your frame and fork come next. If you already have tires at an ideal pressure with a carbon frame and fork, it's unlikely carbon bars will significantly reduce vibration.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

deviousalex said:


> This is why anytime I've had a crash with any carbon handlebars I give them a few good punches and see if they break.


And if you have a carbon frame or wheels be sure and kick them a bunch of times too - they suffer the same ills. And if they don't break the first time, keep kicking.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

ibericb said:


> And if you have a carbon frame or wheels be sure and kick them a bunch of times too - they suffer the same ills. And if they don't break the first time, keep kicking.


Kick 'em when they're up, kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up, kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up, kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up, kick 'em all around


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

ibericb said:


> And if you have a carbon frame or wheels be sure and kick them a bunch of times too - they suffer the same ills. And if they don't break the first time, keep kicking.


Indeed. I keep Reynold's fork testing machine handy in my car in case of a crash.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

ibericb said:


> Yep! And therein lies a problem for those not paying attention. Alloy bars tend to bend before they completely fail, and any bent alloy bar should be considered trashed and replaced. A decent carbon composite bar (and there are a bunch of not so decent ones out there on the cheap) will take greater force and abuse than an alloy bar before breaking. Unfortunately for those not sufficiently attentive, they also hide any weakening damage rather well until they completely fail (and can do so quite suddenly).* That's why, after any cash, carbon composite bars should be suspect, and carefully inspected. *
> 
> I suspect many of the surprising carbon bar "asplosion" failures are with bars that were previously damaged, most likely in a crash or from rough handling and neglected because they weren't bent, or by a hamfisted "mechanic" who paid no attention to torque specs, and crushed the bar at the stem.
> 
> Carbon composite is both stronger and tougher, alloy is more forgiving of neglect.



One of the ways one if the Trek guys a Livestrong said he evaluates a possibly damaged carbon bar is it tap it with the handle end of a screw driver. The sound will "change" while tapping the same area. 

This is by no means fool proof, just an indicator.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

ziscwg said:


> One of the ways one if the Trek guys a Livestrong said he evaluates a possibly damaged carbon bar is it tap it with the handle end of a screw driver. The sound will "change" while tapping the same area.
> 
> This is by no means fool proof, just an indicator.


Problem with that is that if the bar had no appearances of damage the unknowing rider will believe the bar is good and off they go riding it like it's fine...until it snaps. How many people after a crash will take a screwdriver, or coin, and tap the entire frame, fork, bar, and crank arms to see if something isn't quite right when it all looks good? I believe the number would be less than 1%.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

froze said:


> Problem with that is that if the bar had no appearances of damage the unknowing rider will believe the bar is good and off they go riding it like it's fine...until it snaps. How many people after a crash will take a screwdriver, or coin, and tap the entire frame, fork, bar, and crank arms to see if something isn't quite right when it all looks good? I believe the number would be less than 1%.


To how many people does this really apply? How many with alloy bars properly inspect them for corrosion? In both It's a very, very small number. 

It's the case of carbon, it's an easy test to do - Trek recommends using a coin. If you ride with a carbon bar, or frame, crash it, and don't inspect it afterwards, then you're just playing the ignorance game.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

froze said:


> Problem with that is that if the bar had no appearances of damage the unknowing rider will believe the bar is good and off they go riding it like it's fine...until it snaps. How many people after a crash will take a screwdriver, or coin, and tap the entire frame, fork, bar, and crank arms to see if something isn't quite right when it all looks good? I believe the number would be less than 1%.


and plenty of fatigue "catastrophic" failures in any material anyway http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-009/000.html


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

den bakker said:


> and plenty of fatigue "catastrophic" failures in any material anyway http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-009/000.html


The examples given in that site are poor, the brake calipers were of low quality as were the cranks and probably the hubs, but the hubs were damaged prior to poor spoke installation you can see the damage to the spoke holes done from those attempts. One crank was of higher quality then the other. The crack in the frame was due to excessive rust. The crack in the rim was due to excessive rim wall wear from years of braking and combined with the spoke tension made the rim separate.

Please note, I'm in no way saying various materials won't fail because obviously they can and have, but with some materials you usually have a warning before it fails, like in the case of bars which was the topic of conversation.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

froze said:


> The examples given in that site are poor, the brake calipers were of low quality as were the cranks and probably the hubs, but the hubs were damaged prior to poor spoke installation you can see the damage to the spoke holes done from those attempts. One crank was of higher quality then the other. The crack in the frame was due to excessive rust. The crack in the rim was due to excessive rim wall wear from years of braking and combined with the spoke tension made the rim separate.
> 
> Please note, I'm in no way saying various materials won't fail because obviously they can and have, but with some materials you usually have a warning before it fails, like in the case of bars which was the topic of conversation.


yes we agree. with wear and tear fatigue sets in and things break. alu, carbon, wood, steel. 
when the site states "high quality component", we can take them on their word? especially concerning the cranks.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

froze said:


> ...
> but with some materials you usually have a warning before it fails, like in the case of bars which was the topic of conversation.


I would say you sometimes have warring, but not usually. In the case of bars if you crash then alloy will usually bend before they ultimately break. That's good warring. In the case of corrosion induced weakness, there usually isn't much warning - one day it just breaks, although most typically without the excitement of "asplosion".

One view would be that alloy is more forgiving for negligence and oversight than carbon fiber.


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