# Forte Titan vs Neuvation M28



## feh (Mar 8, 2007)

I had read online that these were the same wheels; just different branding.

I was curious about the price difference, if this was true, so I emailed Neuvation. John replied that they are made in the same factory, but are "not the same wheel".

Has anybody used or seen both? What are the actual differences?

Thanks!


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## lawrence (May 17, 2005)

I have the Forte Titans and have seen the Neuvation M28 up close and though similar, not the same, no way! The Neuvation are much much better built, stronger, the material is also thicker. The Forte Titans are a week wheel. A great inexpensive wheel for light people when you get them on sale and with a discount BUT you be better off spending more money and buy the Neuvations


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

I own a set of M28 Aero's and have seen the Titans.....Definately not the same wheel.

The M28's are a good set of wheels: stiff, fairly aero, strong and hold up to a good beating. I'd take them over the Titans any day of the week.


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

lawrence said:


> The Forte Titans are a week wheel. A great inexpensive wheel for light people when you get them on sale and with a discount BUT you be better off spending more money and buy the Neuvations


I've had two sets of Titans and never had a problem with weakness. I lent one set to a friend to use for CX, and she crashed the front wheel hard enough to bend the steel fork and steel XT skewer. Total damage to the front Titan was a single bent spoke. The rim wasn't even noticeably tweaked after I disassembled what was left of the wheel.

YMMV for a budget factory wheelset in general. I've heard of some people having problems with them. But based on my experience, I don't think there is anything inherently weak about them. I would just recommend checking the tension when they are unpacked and have any problems corrected from the start -- as with any wheel.

You could spend more and get a better wheel, but you could just as easily spend more and get nothing more than a "better" label.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

I think the issue with the Titan lies in the spokes, if not the build. My problematic Titan was flexy. Decided to up the tension myself - figure I'd undergo a learning experience. It stayed true, but the wheel still had quite noticable lateral flex. Tighten things any more and the nipples would go beyond the threads and I'd strip the nipple's corners - so I doubt it was incorrect spoke length, or tension, but mere spoke quality.

I think these things are a hit-or-miss, and I got a miss. Heard something about Titans getting a bit of refinement at one point. Yeah, I should've gone back to Performance in the first place, but it was a stubborn moment.


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## feh (Mar 8, 2007)

lawrence said:


> I have the Forte Titans and have seen the Neuvation M28 up close and though similar, not the same, no way! The Neuvation are much much better built, stronger, the material is also thicker. The Forte Titans are a week wheel. A great inexpensive wheel for light people when you get them on sale and with a discount BUT you be better off spending more money and buy the Neuvations


Hmmm...the Titans are on sale for $140 for the pair. The M28s are currently $225 for a pair. 

I weigh 170 lbs...to save the $85 or not?


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## bradleybikeboy (Aug 24, 2010)

I just purchased a pair of Titans in July of 2010. So far they are very smooth and fast. I have only used them on longer rides and races, I put on my old Rolf wheels (2000) for commuting to work and most training rides. I am a 155 lb rider. From the pics the only thing I have noticed different between the Titans and the M28s is the color of the hub. M28 is silver(unpainted) and the Titan is black, but I have never seen a M28 up close, just going by the pictures. Although I have heard more good things about the M28s vs the Titans, may be worth getting them instead. Plus when you purchase the titans they do not come with rim tape so add another 8-10 bucks for that. I may end up purchasing a pair of M28's soon just so I can really compare the difference.
I probably have about 200 plus hard miles on the Titans thus far, Front wheel is still true, and the rear wheel is slightly out of true, but not noticeable while riding.


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## feh (Mar 8, 2007)

I bought the Titans and have been riding them since March. I'm very happy with them; true out of the box and still true today.


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## lawrence (May 17, 2005)

Sometimes a mass produced wheel will go out of true very quickly when you first start riding on it because it was pre-stretched or stretched not at all or not properly.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

I've owned both wheels and they are different. At a glance, they look identical but then when you look closer, you'll notice that the M28 Aeros have beefier spokes and hubs. My experience with these wheels pretty much confirmed to me that the M28 Aeros are much stronger. When I had the Titans, I started breaking spokes within three weeks of owning them. After the second spoke broke, the manager at Performance just told me to grab another wheel. In and out in less than five minutes. I liked the look of them so I looked to Neuvation for something more reliable. After the first year I started having the same problem with the M28 Aero and replacement Aero2. I noticed that with the introduction of the Aero 3, John got serious about the durability of Neuvation M28 Aeros and has had them beefed up quite a bit. Now, you can actually look at them and see the difference. I'm 215 lbs. and have had my replacement Aero 3s for over two years and have not had any problems except for one rear wheel truing due to major potholes on a route that I had taken. I thought that the wheel would've been destroyed because these were potholes that would've concerned me if I was driving over them in my van. Anyway, they have been great and they still spin extremely well after putting almost 10,000 miles on them. BTW, if you do have a problem(which I strongly doubt you will) John Neugent will fix you up right away. His customer service should be the model for every company- second to none.


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## jordan (Feb 2, 2002)

*Beefy spokes???*

The last time I compared the two wheels the hubs and rims were the same and the spokes were both made by Pillar in the same gauge,but the Neuvation spokes were more flattened,thus with a thinner aero section in the mid-spoke.Thus the spokes weigh the same,with the same gauge at both ends.My Titan box had Neuvation printed on it as the origin in Taiwan.There could be some difference in the build/truing or the bearings,but there is nothing "beefier"about the Neuvation.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

jordan said:


> The last time I compared the two wheels the hubs and rims were the same and the spokes were both made by Pillar in the same gauge,but the Neuvation spokes were more flattened,thus with a thinner aero section in the mid-spoke.Thus the spokes weigh the same,with the same gauge at both ends.My Titan box had Neuvation printed on it as the origin in Taiwan.There could be some difference in the build/truing or the bearings,but there is nothing "beefier"about the Neuvation.


Then you haven't compared Aero 3s and Aero 4s to the Titans. While in the past, they looked identical, the Aero3s and 4s have a different designed hub. Also, the bearings are different as well.


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*+1*



Wookiebiker said:


> I own a set of M28 Aero's and have seen the Titans.....Definately not the same wheel.
> 
> The M28's are a good set of wheels: stiff, fairly aero, strong and hold up to a good beating. I'd take them over the Titans any day of the week.


on this. I have a set of M28's on my rain bike. ZERO problems. They're strong.


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## jordan (Feb 2, 2002)

terbennett said:


> Then you haven't compared Aero 3s and Aero 4s to the Titans. While in the past, they looked identical, the Aero3s and 4s have a different designed hub. Also, the bearings are different as well.


 Yes the new hub,which appears to be still made by Formula has a more solid drive-side flange now.When and if a new batch of Titans are made I predict they will have the same hub,as the 2nd generation of Titans followed the changes in Neuvation hubs.Has anyone taken the bearings out of a Titan to verify that the bearings are different?I have had no need to pull the bearings on my Titan hubs.The Titans were comparatively more attractive about four years ago when you could get them for $80-100/pair with cheaper ship to store rates than now.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

jordan said:


> Yes the new hub,which appears to be still made by Formula has a more solid drive-side flange now.When and if a new batch of Titans are made I predict they will have the same hub,as the 2nd generation of Titans followed the changes in Neuvation hubs.Has anyone taken the bearings out of a Titan to verify that the bearings are different?I have had no need to pull the bearings on my Titan hubs.The Titans were comparatively more attractive about four years ago when you could get them for $80-100/pair with cheaper ship to store rates than now.


Okay the bearings being different is something I've heard from three different Performance Bike Shops. Also, Neuvation offers a $60 Ceramic bearing upgrade- which the Forte's don't offer.


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## intence (May 23, 2010)

It sounds like they're similar. The neuvation owners obviously won't be too happy about a far cheaper wheel being sold at performance.

If I had to guess, i'd say that perhaps they come from the same factory, but Performance uses lower specs to get them in at a certain pricepoint. For the price minus coupons and Performance points along with the performance guarantee, it's hard to go wrong. You can always return them and get the neuvations if you don't like them.


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## feh (Mar 8, 2007)

intence said:


> It sounds like they're similar. The neuvation owners obviously won't be too happy about a far cheaper wheel being sold at performance.
> 
> If I had to guess, i'd say that perhaps they come from the same factory, but Performance uses lower specs to get them in at a certain pricepoint. For the price minus coupons and Performance points along with the performance guarantee, it's hard to go wrong. You can always return them and get the neuvations if you don't like them.


I was told (can't remember if it was a Performance rep or somebody at Neuvation) that they are made at the same factory. It just seems that (at times) there are minor component differences.

I'm very happy w/ my Titans.


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