# Tarmac or Venge?



## Bjorn

Tarmac Pro SL 4 or Venge Pro, what would you choose?

Can't decide between the Venge and Tarmac. I think that the Tarmac would probably be lighter and snappier than the Venge. But the Venge is probably faster... 

Which one would you choose and why? 

Bjorn


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## ukbloke

Tarmac - I appreciate the extra comfort on long rides, and the incremental performance when climbing. I also think the Tarmac looks classier. The aero benefits from the Venge would help on flat time-trials and top-end sprinting, but neither of those are priorities to me. If you choose the Venge for aero reasons, you really need to be running carbon wheels too (which I don't for other reasons) and optimize your body position for aero.


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## RkFast

Bjorn said:


> Tarmac Pro SL 4 or Venge Pro, what would you choose?
> 
> Can't decide between the Venge and Tarmac. I think that the Tarmac would probably be lighter and snappier than the Venge. But the Venge is probably faster...
> 
> Which one would you choose and why?
> 
> Bjorn


You answered your own question. You want a flat out speed machine or a lighter more nimble (or "snappier") bike?


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## PJ352

Bjorn said:


> Tarmac Pro SL 4 or Venge Pro, what would you choose?
> 
> Can't decide between the Venge and Tarmac. I think that the Tarmac would probably be lighter and snappier than the Venge. But the Venge is probably faster...
> 
> Which one would you choose and why?
> 
> Bjorn


I'd choose Tarmac because:
1) it's cheaper, but performs on a par (at least with me as the 'motor').
2) it looks better (IMO) 

and...
the aero advantages of the Venge are:
1) miniscule
2) irrelevant to me because of riding style.


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## Bjorn

I'm leaning towards the Tarmac. It sure looks better than the Venge, and it probably is more all- round than the Venge. 

I've got a Sram Red groupset in store for the bike. So the Tarmac could end up being pretty light if I get pair of nice wheels to go with it. 

How big is the difference in weight between the Tarmac and Venge? 

The SL 4 Pro is supposed to be stiffer and lighter than last years S-Works Tarmac, is this correct?


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## shokhead

Peloton


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## dcorn

I just analyzed them both in person. I definitely think you could get a Tarmac a bit lighter, but damnit I just love the look of the Venge. I have a Cervelo S1 now, so I'm slightly partial to the aero frame already. 

I'm planning on getting a Venge with Ultegra Di2 at the beginning of the '12 season.


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## Optimus

Another vote for the Tarmac!!!


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## hd tech

I think you should ride both bikes before you make your decision. I have a Tarmac and a Venge and they do not handle the same. The Tarmac is a smoother ride but the Venge is a faster bike. I would take my Tarmac on a long ride like a cenury, but I would take the Venge on a fast group ride or race.


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## mpower13

Venge for me as it can do EVERYTHING right for me. I use it to climb one of the stiffest hill in my area which a road bike normally wouldn't and it climbs like a goat . On flat, it is real fast and comfortable :thumbsup:.


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## RkFast

mpower13 said:


> Venge for me as it can do EVERYTHING right for me. I use it to climb one of the stiffest hill in my area which a road bike normally wouldn't and it climbs like a goat . On flat, it is real fast and comfortable :thumbsup:.


Is it laterally stiff, yet vertically compliant?


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## PJ352

hd tech said:


> I think you should ride both bikes before you make your decision.


Definitely.


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## tiflow_21

Tarmac. I just made the decision and went with a tarmac sl4 pro over the venge pro. However, I haven't received the tarmac yet since specialized bikes are perpetually backordered. 

I'm 6'5" and the venge being aero likely wouldn't help me much as my body is more of an aero drag than any bike frame will ever be. I didn't like the fact that the venge ride characteristics were de-optimized to enhance aerodynamics. If they could make the venge ride as well as a tarmac, but still be aero it would've been more of a consideration. I do fast group rides, but don't race so I'm not concerned about gaining a few tenths of a second here or there. I'd rather work on getting stronger/faster vs depending on a bike's aero advantage to shave a few tenths of a second here or there.


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## Johnnyc2

*Tarmac option*

Went through the same Venge vs Tarmac process and chose Tarmac. Very happy, the Tarmac is a great ride. Our roads in New Zealand are coarser chip so slightly rougher ride. The reports from blogs that Venge was not as compliant/comfortable on longer rides helped me opt for the comfort of the Tarmac.

Decision was based around - If I'm in a bunch (which most rides/races present) there will be lesser gain from aero (than solo riding would present) and it is unlikely to be the bikes fault if i got dropped from bunch, therefore the hill climbs and comfort became the 2x main decison factors.

Good luck with your choice.


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## ShaneW

I have an S-Works Venge and just bought an SL4 Pro. They are actually noticeably different rides. If I have going on a ride with more than a few Cat3 climbs I will absolutely take the SL4, if its a longer and flatter type ride with a few smaller hills along the way its time for the Venge. The Venge is faster on the flatter stuff, especially if its windy. Once you hit about 17mph I can start to feel that I am putting out more watts on the SL4 (I also have a powermeter so this is proveable data). 

I am lucky to be able to have both but I would say that the terrain where I ride, if I could only have one I would probably take the Tarmac. That said, I prefer actually riding the Venge. I do have the Zipp404 Firecrest wheels btw and will switch them between bikes depending on road & weather conditions. They make a difference too on the faster stuff.

-S


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## biobanker

As much as I adore by SWorks SL2 Tarmac, Id take the Venge just because its the cool kid on the block and I think that it would be more fun to ride. I cant imagine that you would be unhappy with either choice though.


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## RaGzMaN

This morning I spent a few hours on both the Venge and an SL4.

Im in the same position, Venge or Tarmac? 

For me my ride is really a mixed bag of long fast flats, sprints but with multiple 7 to 10 minute dig climbs @ around 7% av with some 12% bits in there and a cat2 20 to 25 minute climb not too far away which I try and get to as much as I can. Im around 175 lbs so the extra weight of the Venge really dosnt mean a thing to me. I can confirm that the rides are different. I was skeptical about how much id notice but yes, they are different. I can't truly compare like for like as the Venge was a 56 and the Tarmac was a 58 so take my opinions how you will.

I road the Venge first so ill start with that. The first thing I can say about the Venge is that this thing is aggressive. From the position you are put in to the feel to how you want to ride it. I was comfortable. You really feel the road, you feel every bump and know exactly what the bike is doing. Some people might describe this as comfort and others as feedback and I think its important to know if thats something that you want or not. I was comfortable, very, I didn't find it uncomfortable by any means, what I did feel however was everything underneath me, you just feel the road more. For me, I don't mind that but can see that some people might not be the biggest fans of such feedback. On longer rides of say 80 to 120 miles id love to how how things feel then. 

The first time I really registered this was when I gave it some beans up a short hill (1 minute or so) gave it a good sprint all out, the roads were not exactly smooth by any means id like to point out. First thing going through my mind was holy $hit this is stiff, I felt like I wanted to keep sprinting keep pushing and keep going where normally I would want to sit down and so I did keep going. Great power transfer with what felt like zero loss straight from me to the ground (I'm also a power meter user for what its worth), second thing I thought was is that my bottle launching out of the cage and exploding on the road, ah yes, feedback........

Steady state high speed this bike was also amazing. Again I felt like I wanted to keep on hammering, even when I got to a small incline I wanted to get out the saddle and push through it again and again, I constantly wanted to attack and did. 

I changed to the SL4

Other than the size difference this was a different bike immediately. Customizable differences affected me straight away like width of bars and length of stems (sl4 was wider which I didn't like) but I felt laid back, calmer, didn't feel the need to boot it everywhere, if it was a Roubaix with sl4 graphics I wouldn't have been surprised at that moment. Got to some small hills and the spring and snap people talk about I certainly experienced, as soon as you stand up on an incline there is something there that the Venge dosnt have or rather has less of as previously mentioned by others. Steady state at speed was also fun but here the Venge had the edge by quite a long way. 
I changed back to the Venge for a final time to confirm my thoughts and finish the comparison. 

My Conclusion (and ok this is exaggerated and to the extremes but you get what I'm saying)

If you are perhaps a lightweight rider (<=150/165 lbs) that might live in or go to the alps or regularly do HC, 1st or 2nd CAT climbs get the Tarmac. If you prefer a smoother ride to getting feedback from the road get the Tarmac. Its a fantastic bike and I enjoyed it a lot. 

If you are an animal, ride aggressively and like to attack your group ride, spend a lot of time on solo rides or have any interest in doing TT's without changing the bike the Venge is king. 

Maybe a lot of my experience was placebo, I can put my hands up and say I wanted to like the Venge and I did but that aside I road it hard and got on with it very well. It felt good, fast, responsive and I felt something more when I was on it than on the sl4. I also spent a lot of time looking at the rider who was riding the Venge at this point.

I love to climb and regularly seek out hills and always add them to my training loops. I also like to break away, attack and sprint. My power profile is an all rounder so that all makes sense. My riding really suits both bikes but I can't have two. 

The S-Works SL4 and the S-Works Venge are basically the same price so it does all come down to the bike. For me, the Venge just tips the scale on more levels of awesomeness, I felt different on it. At the end of the day with the numbers specialized publish on this saving or that lateral stiffness etc it comes down to how you feel and so I agree with the above, if your interested in these two bikes then ride both. 

Ill be putting my order in shortly.


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## nismo73

RaGzMaN said:


> This morning I spent a few hours on both the Venge and an SL4.


Thank you for your comprehension review of two bikes I've been thinking about... I'm now going to seek out a Venge at a lbs to test ride.


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## ukbloke

RaGzMaN said:


> This morning I spent a few hours on both the Venge and an SL4.


Indeed, thanks for the detailed post, much appreciated! Are you buying a frame or a bike? If possible, remember to post a pic when you get it.


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## rickonayeti

OK ragzman and shanew (and anyone else), got a question. I am thinking of selling my TT bike as it is a boat anchor that I hate riding, but I probably need some sort of an aero bike, since I am I cat3 who routinely takes an ass-whooping in large stage races on, mainly on the tt's. But I love to climb, and live in an area with mostly rollers or hills or more. Riding a Spec tarmac SL3 pro sram red now, but would sell it as well and use the venge for all my road endeavors (race/stage/TT). The s-works venge is actually 100gm lighter than my sl3 pro, by the way. Sound like a reasonable thing to ask of the venge, or asking too much?


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## ShaneW

Not at all - I think what you are asking of it is exactly what its built to do. I have put in many miles on both already and the Venge still amazes me sometimes. The faster you go, the faster you want to go! I have been setting PR's EVERYWHERE on this thing. That is not to say the SL4 is slow by any stretch of the imagination. Its an awesome bike too - but for the riding/racing you are doing - I think the Venge is the bike you want. The only way to know for sure it to get out on one and do some testing. I can absolutely feel that I need to put out less effort to go fast. I am not a great climber but it climbs MUCH better than my old Tarmac, although just a tad bit slower than the SL4.

Lots of hills on your ride = SL4 in my opinion, but again, the Venge will work really well too. In fact I would bet that the Venge still climbs at least as good as your SL3. I love the way the ride feels but RaGzMan is right, you feel a lot more of the road underneath you whereas the SL4 soaks that up. I have my bikes set up with the exact same components, saddle, bars etc. I do feel the Venge beats you up a little more on rough roads and Century rides, but its worth it to me. 

A few friends have ridden the Venge and they all cant believe how nice it feels and carries speed. You will not regret buying one, I have ZERO buyers remorse.


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## bernithebiker

Nice review, Ragzman. I chose the SL4 S-works over the Venge simply because I tend to ride alot of hills, and love spending time in the Alps and Pyrenees. I will be doing the Etape du Tour from Pau, (Act 2) next July on it.

I would love to have both, but as I also MTB a bit, (Scott Spark Ltd), and I have a raced up town MTB, that's not really realistic!

Just to point out though, that the geometries of the SL4 and Venge are almost PRECISELY the same. So any difference is coming from the tube shape, not geometry.


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## RaGzMaN

No problem, its a lot of $$$ to put down on a bike and I've read some confusing reports on these frames so wanted to put one out myself 



bernithebiker said:


> Just to point out though, that the geometries of the SL4 and Venge are almost PRECISELY the same. So any difference is coming from the tube shape, not geometry.


Yup totally appreciate that, didn't help that I was actually testing the venge @ 56cm with a 105mm stem and a SL4 @58cm with a 115mm stem, actually puts me at the wrong end of both bikes but like I said its customizable discrepancies given the same frame as you also pointed out. 



nismo73 said:


> Thank you for your comprehension review of two bikes I've been thinking about... I'm now going to seek out a Venge at a lbs to test ride.


Make sure that you actually ride it in your natural habitat, not on some random road outside the shop with heaps of traffic. Spend some time on them. 



ukbloke said:


> Indeed, thanks for the detailed post, much appreciated! Are you buying a frame or a bike? If possible, remember to post a pic when you get it.


I want to do a custom build, I already have some of the parts and am researching other parts so it will be a build rather than a complete stock bike. One thing I'm struggling with is its supply as Specialized are on back order on the 56 project black frameset which is a pain in the ass but I'm working on that, could be a while until its built. Ill be sure to upload some photos as and when though. 



rickonayeti said:


> OK ragzman and shanew (and anyone else), got a question. I am thinking of selling my TT bike as it is a boat anchor that I hate riding, but I probably need some sort of an aero bike, since I am I cat3 who routinely takes an ass-whooping in large stage races on, mainly on the tt's. But I love to climb, and live in an area with mostly rollers or hills or more. Riding a Spec tarmac SL3 pro sram red now, but would sell it as well and use the venge for all my road endeavors (race/stage/TT). The s-works venge is actually 100gm lighter than my sl3 pro, by the way. Sound like a reasonable thing to ask of the venge, or asking too much?


I think the Venge is absolutely perfect for this scenario. Its a bike that sort of bridges the gap between the SL(3)4 and the Shiv. If you had a road setup and a other set of wheels, aero bars etc you could throw on at a given time I think the Venge will be a perfect weapon for you. There are several triathletes already using the Venge as a bike on the World Champ circuit. 

This kind of setup is actually what I'm planning on doing. I never made the step to go for a full on time trail bike and always stuck my 808s and aero bars on my Madone for TT rides/efforts. I think the Venge will be a far better solution bridging the gap not to mention that you can mount the seat post either forwards or backwards to give you a zero degree angle or not.


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## ilou224

*Venge!*

Until about a month ago, I was riding a Tarmac. Due to a cracked fork and awaiting warranty confirmation from Specialized, my local Bike shop lent me a Cervello S5. I rode that and really liked it and even considered buying it. Then I had the privelage to demo a Venge Pro Dura ace. The Cervello was a noodle compared to this bike. I purchased the Venge and haven't looked back. This bike makes me want to ride. Without over analsying (which cyclists tend to do) this bike is amazing. Waaaay better than my Tarmac.


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## SpinninWheels

After riding the S-Works SL4 and the S-Works Venge I bit the bullet and bought the Venge.

Both bikes rode so well it was a hard decision, but I felt the Venge was just more engaging and made we want to 'ride' it.

So far no regrets, as others have said the bike is fast and it's not as harsh to ride as a lot of people claim. 

Had mine set up with DA Di2 and Zipp 404's FC. Great combo


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## jsedlak

Venge.

I want another one.


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## dcorn

jsedlak said:


> Venge.
> 
> I want another one.


I'll take the first one off your hands!


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## Mdrnizd

I have had both the S-Works SL4 Tarmac and the S-Works Venge and just sold my Tarmac yesterday. I love the Venge. It is not quite as snappy and not as nimble but I love it overall.


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## hd tech

I have 2600 miles on my Venge so far. I find it hard to want to ride my Tarmac so I take the Venge out unless it is raining.


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## zammmmo

Ok new to this forum and part of joining was simply to get more info on the SL4 and Venge...and oh see plenty of builds. Firstly let me say I have ridden neither. However, the Venge gives you 15-20W for free...try training to get that after you've been riding and racing for years...it's nearly impossible. Don't agree you necessarily have to have aero wheels with it - it looks better with them I do agree though. Also, I can't imagine it's vastly inferior to climb on either - hardly any weight penalty and probably very similar construction from what is at the end of the day the same company. Happy to be convinced otherwise....


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## GTR2ebike

zammmmo said:


> Ok new to this forum and part of joining was simply to get more info on the SL4 and Venge...and oh see plenty of builds. Firstly let me say I have ridden neither. However, the Venge gives you 15-20W for free...try training to get that after you've been riding and racing for years...it's nearly impossible. Don't agree you necessarily have to have aero wheels with it - it looks better with them I do agree though. Also, I can't imagine it's vastly inferior to climb on either - hardly any weight penalty and probably very similar construction from what is at the end of the day the same company. Happy to be convinced otherwise....


Compared to a SL3, not SL4.


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## zammmmo

@GTR2ebike

So does that mean some aero features have been incorporated into the SL4's design?


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## nis240sxt

I've been lucky enough to have ridden both. Just got rid of my Tarmac SL4 for a Venge. Forget the numbers, what it really comes down to is if you can feel a difference when riding the Venge. In crosswinds, in the front pulling, in the pack and solo. I definitely feel that it's a faster bike because I don't have to work as hard to maintain speed (higher the better). This savings in energy results in many things..ie not getting dropped, giving you energy for the final sprint, etc... I loved my Tarmac but with the Venge it just leaves a smile on my face every time I ride it and it makes me look forward to the next time. There's no doubt you have to fit the profile the Venge is made for. Definitely for power riders in flat windy, rolling terrain. If you're a lighter rider that mostly ride climbs, the Tarmac is the better bike for you.


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## zammmmo

nis240sxt said:


> I've been lucky enough to have ridden both. Just got rid of my Tarmac SL4 for a Venge. Forget the numbers, what it really comes down to is if you can feel a difference when riding the Venge. In crosswinds, in the front pulling, in the pack and solo. I definitely feel that it's a faster bike because I don't have to work as hard to maintain speed (higher the better). This savings in energy results in many things..ie not getting dropped, giving you energy for the final sprint, etc... I loved my Tarmac but with the Venge it just leaves a smile on my face every time I ride it and it makes me look forward to the next time. There's no doubt you have to fit the profile the Venge is made for. Definitely for power riders in flat windy, rolling terrain. If you're a lighter rider that mostly ride climbs, the Tarmac is the better bike for you.


you're selling it pretty well....just need to find the red//black/white frame now for less than £2500 or a second hand one! as an aside i notice that different countries have different colour schemes available (despite specialized being a global company) - for example australia i know have a slightly different versin of the above colour scheme that looks even better IMO - shame u cant get that version in the uk.


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## GTR2ebike

zammmmo said:


> @GTR2ebike
> 
> So does that mean some aero features have been incorporated into the SL4's design?


I have no idea.


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## freezin_is_the_reason

I'm trying to make the same decision. I'm a smaller rider that puts out less power but I live in an area that is pretty flat and windy. I like to do longer rides and appreciate the comfort of my current 2006 Tarmac. 

Based on the chart posted above, The Tarmac is would seem pretty close in performance for me as I usually average between 30-35 kph, but when you look a bit deeper the aero benefits of the Venge weigh in pretty heavily even at those relatively low speeds. At 30 kph you are only looking at a 3.4% gain in efficiancy. At 35 kph that gain jumps to 6.4%. That translates to 18.7 mph vs 19.3 mph at the low end and 21.7 vs 23.1 mph at the high end. Those are noticeable gains in velocity at the same wattage output. 

For me, based on where I live and the type of riding I normally do (long solo rides), the Venge is the better bike if my goal is going faster. The quesion is, how much am I willing to compromise comfort for the aero benefit of the Venge?

I would love to test ride one, but my LBS doesn't make a habit of keeping $6K bikes in the shop.


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## dcorn

I'd say if you like the bike that much, call around and find a shop that has a venge in stock and go ride it. I did and absolutely loved it. I ended up going with an impulse buy on a really nice SL3 Tarmac, but I still long for a Venge.


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## freezin_is_the_reason

dcorn said:


> I'd say if you like the bike that much, call around and find a shop that has a venge in stock and go ride it. I did and absolutely loved it. I ended up going with an impulse buy on a really nice SL3 Tarmac, but I still long for a Venge.


I live in ND, my next nearest specialized dealer is over 100 miles away. The third closest dealer is over 200 miles away. I severely doubt that either of them has a Venge in stock. If they do, the chances of having one in my size are slim as I seem to be about 6" shorter than the average North Dakotan.

Got my Tarmac in 2006 sight unseen without a test ride based solely on geometry numbers. Suspect I will do the same with this bike.


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## nis240sxt

I think the Venge is plenty comfortable and actually the ride i would classify as "solid, stable". I think alot of a bike's comfort has to do with the wheel/tire combo. I ride HED C2 rims (23mm wide) and run s-works turbo tires w/latex tubes @ 100psi, i weigh 180lbs and to me, it rides like silk. If you live where it's flat and windy and you do solo rides, the venge would be perfect for you.


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## Local Hero

My S-Works SL2 isn't going to last forever. Spesh gives my team a discount. Hmmmmm.


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## Scott in MD

Venge and Sl4 have identical geometry, and the Tarmac is lighter. And costs less. 

What was the question?


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## dcorn

Scott in MD said:


> Venge and Sl4 have identical geometry, and the Tarmac is lighter. And costs less.
> 
> What was the question?


It's not all about weight and obviously lots of people here have money to burn haha. There are some super lightweight builds in the Venge thread. 

Really considering swapping all my parts from my SL3 Tarmac over to a Venge, maybe a used frame or something. Light is cool, but I'm just a huge fan of the aero frame.


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## Rob13

Buy both


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## young-nyc

SpinninWheels said:


> After riding the S-Works SL4 and the S-Works Venge I bit the bullet and bought the Venge.
> 
> Both bikes rode so well it was a hard decision, but I felt the Venge was just more engaging and made we want to 'ride' it.
> 
> So far no regrets, as others have said the bike is fast and it's not as harsh to ride as a lot of people claim.
> 
> Had mine set up with DA Di2 and Zipp 404's FC. Great combo



wow that's a great combo and purchase!!
was considering a venge myself, but now thinking more Tarmac since the Tarmac can climb faster than the Venge (so i've read and heard)...


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## jsedlak

young-nyc said:


> wow that's a great combo and purchase!!
> was considering a venge myself, but now thinking more Tarmac since the Tarmac can climb faster than the Venge (so i've read and heard)...


My Venge climbs just fine. I've done two hillclimb TTs with it and have placed well both times. And I am NOT a climber.


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## 1LaneLam

dcorn said:


> lots of people here have money to burn haha.


Exactly. I doubt most people who buy the Venge race anyway lol (or care about miniscule geo differences). Admittedly, the Venge is a bad-ass looking frame.


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## jsedlak

1LaneLam said:


> Exactly. I doubt most people who buy the Venge race anyway lol (or care about miniscule geo differences). Admittedly, the Venge is a bad-ass looking frame.


Not so sure about that... maybe on this board. But in the wild it seems to me like there is a decent percentage of riders in the jersey peloton riding venges compared to "weekend warrior" type riders.


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## young-nyc

jsedlak said:


> My Venge climbs just fine. I've done two hillclimb TTs with it and have placed well both times. And I am NOT a climber.


I'm sure it's a great climber, and i also love the looks of the venge, but i think compared to the tarmac, it loses out on the climbs, taking into consideration that the same rider uses these bikes.


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## jsedlak

young-nyc said:


> I'm sure it's a great climber, and i also love the looks of the venge, but i think compared to the tarmac, it loses out on the climbs, taking into consideration that the same rider uses these bikes.


It's a generalization that I have not seen backed up with any data. You could argue that the frame weights are different, but that is negligible. If you follow UCI rules, then the complete bikes have a minimum weight (that both can exceed). Perhaps you would argue the SL4 is stiffer, but Cavendish won on the Venge multiple times so that argument is fairly moot. Plus, the Venge has an aero advantage (known for SL3, to which the tube shapes of the SL4 are related), so for low grade climbs it would actually exceed the performance of the SL4 frame.

I think that most people expect the SL4 to climb better and as such have it in there heads it is true. That is important, because "confidence" is a huge factor, but it doesn't mean the Venge itself is any worse than the SL4 at climbing.


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## young-nyc

@ Jsedlak, i agree with you man. I would love to test ride one of these babies...btw have you done any endurance rides on the venge? your feedback would be great!


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## jsedlak

young-nyc said:


> @ Jsedlak, i agree with you man. I would love to test ride one of these babies...btw have you done any endurance rides on the venge? your feedback would be great!


I've done a lot of stuff on my Venge... What kind of feedback are you looking for? Where I live we have a good mix of rollers, spikey but short climbs, 1.5 mile climbs with steep sections, some flat stuff... so naturally I tend to be more of a rouleur.

Here is some of the more notable stuff I've done on it recently... let me know which one you want me to dive into. :thumbsup:

NJ State RR (44 miles, flat, 100F heat)
Tour of Flanders ITT (includes a 1mile, 600ft climb)
60mi @ 21mph, 3000ft of climbing (training for RR) long(er) but spikey climbs
40mi @ 21mph, 2300ft of climbing (training for RR) with rolling terrain
Highpoint Hillclimb (5 miles @ 6%)
GFNJ Route (8000ft+ of climbing, 118 miles total)
Tour de Lake Hopatcong (40mi, 20mph, big climb)


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## young-nyc

GFNJ route?? dang 8,000ft of climbing on the venge!!? how'd that go? and over 118miles of riding? you are nuts =)


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## jsedlak

young-nyc said:


> GFNJ route?? dang 8,000ft of climbing on the venge!!? how'd that go? and over 118miles of riding? you are nuts =)


Here is the route: Gran FondoNJ 2012 Training Route - A bike ride in Morristown, New Jersey, US
(I rode to the start and back home from the finish, totalling 118 miles)

The fondo route is a really nice route with a lot of variation in the type of riding. Flat, rolling, steep grades, low grades... it has it all. The Venge was fantastic on everything, much more comfortable than my Allez (which I have used on the route previously). 

It makes the rolling terrain flyby; there is a section of roads where you are heading out to the turn around and it was really easy to get into a groove and just average 21-23mph. By then, you're kind of wondering what pain the next couple of hours is going to bring, so being able to get comfortable and in a groove is a major relief. The bike really just wants to go faster... faster than my legs can push it.

For the climbs, there are a couple ones to make note of. Black River Rd, Rocky Run Rd, and Frog Hollow Rd. Black River Rd meanders (sp?) for a bit and then pitches right up to 13% and averages 9% for about 1-1.5 miles. It's painful to say the least. The stiffness of the Venge really comes in handy here because I'm out of the saddle in the 39x25 && 39x23 for much of it. My Madone, by comparison, had noticeable bottom bracket "sway" when climbing out of the saddle. Rocky Run Rd I never really challenged, because it comes before Frog Hollow Rd. It goes up in steps, so it's hard to get into a rythm, which I hate. Frog Hollow is a nice 3 mile climb that averages ~4% with a super steep pitch at the end. I decimate this climb, I love it. I can get into a TT position and rythm, and the Venge really likes it. On the flatter sections I'm probably hitting 25-26, on the 4% stuff I'm probably closer to 18-20. Very easy for the Venge, not so much for the rider.

I think the thing that sets the Venge apart from a "normal" bike is that when used in tandem with deep carbon rims you get a bike that is aerodynamic, super stuff, and not too harsh. I did 118mi with no back issues (and I have an aggressive fit) and that says a lot for its ability to soak up the bumps. I'm not going to suggest it is like the Roubaix, but know that it is by no means painful to ride.


----------



## young-nyc

John, 
thank you so much for your feedback,
great read!!
planning on test riding the Venge, Roubaix SL4 and the Tarmac.


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## izza

Young-nyc - spent today at a Specialized Concept Store test riding my S-Works Tarmac SL3 and store's S-Works Venge back to back. 

Blown away by Venge. 

It's widely accepted that on flats and sprints the added aero/torsional stiffness gives the Venge the edge. However, in line with John's comments I also found it was great on rolling countryside. Cornering and descending felt much more definite and less fidgety. 

No true climbs on the ride but as a larger rider the extra few grams of frame weight were not significant on any incline. Furthermore as I tired and cadence fell on some stretches coming out of the saddle gave a real burst rather than allowing me to merely maintain speed. 

The bike just encourages you to push on and on.

As for comfort the Venge was actually more comfortable. That may sound wrong but it had a S-works Toupe saddle vs my Arione K:1, thicker cork bar tape with gel, Zipps rather than Mavics and wider tires. So it became clear that by putting the right levels of cockpit comfort in place, the bike can be made into as much of an sportive/all day ride as the Tarmac.


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## Wildcard

I love me Tarmac SL4 Pro and would never give her back, but having test riden the Venge on same terrain would have to say I reckon I would have choosen it over the Tarmac. That said I recent got warranty replacement of the stock Roval Fuse SL25's for Roval Rapid 45's (Same as Venge Pro) and it has lifted it to another level!!

Both are awesome bikes!!


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## izza

izza said:


> Young-nyc - spent today at a Specialized Concept Store test riding my S-Works Tarmac SL3 and store's S-Works Venge back to back.
> 
> Blown away by Venge.
> 
> It's widely accepted that on flats and sprints the added aero/torsional stiffness gives the Venge the edge. However, in line with John's comments I also found it was great on rolling countryside. Cornering and descending felt much more definite and less fidgety.
> 
> No true climbs on the ride but as a larger rider the extra few grams of frame weight were not significant on any incline. Furthermore as I tired and cadence fell on some stretches coming out of the saddle gave a real burst rather than allowing me to merely maintain speed.
> 
> The bike just encourages you to push on and on.
> 
> As for comfort the Venge was actually more comfortable. That may sound wrong but it had a S-works Toupe saddle vs my Arione K:1, thicker cork bar tape with gel, Zipps rather than Mavics and wider tires. So it became clear that by putting the right levels of cockpit comfort in place, the bike can be made into as much of an sportive/all day ride as the Tarmac.


Well that test ride cost me!!

Sold my SL3 frame within a day of getting back and deposit put down on 2013 S-works Venge frame. Colour scheme matt carbon/grey/red. Expected delivery - end of August. Can't wait!


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## young-nyc

Congrats izza! I also can't wait for my test ride!


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## william9092

Wildcard said:


> I love me Tarmac SL4 Pro and would never give her back, but having test riden the Venge on same terrain would have to say I reckon I would have choosen it over the Tarmac. That said I recent got warranty replacement of the stock Roval Fuse SL25's for Roval Rapid 45's (Same as Venge Pro) and it has lifted it to another level!!
> 
> Both are awesome bikes!!



If there are any lightwieght riders riding a venge (i.e. <150lbs), how do you rate the bike in terms of ride comfort and responsiveness in comparison to the SL4 (if you have had the privellege of comparing the 2)? And what has been your experience on the bike when the terrain tilts upwards?


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## paolosauler

Tarmac!!!


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## izza

young-nyc said:


> Congrats izza! I also can't wait for my test ride!



Frame arrived day before family holiday. Sat on beach all week wanting to get back home!!


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## young-nyc

@ izza please post pics when you are done!!! congrats...i'm jealous!!..you suck =P


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## izza

Still to upgrade my front chainset and rear mech to DA.


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## dcorn

That's a good looking bike, sorta looks like a combo of the super record and the mclaren colors.

I'll have to agree with Jsedlak though, I think it's about time to upgrade the components and wheels


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## izza

New components arrive tomorrow/Thursday. Will update the bike within the week.

Colours - poor man's Mclaren!!  No bad thing in my eyes.

Even the two rides I have done with the bike has been fantastic. First outing was actually the first time I have been on a bike for a month and with holiday extra weight (god damn those free milkshakes) and a bug I hit a wall badly and dragged my sorry frame home at an embarassing speed. Today, got out again for some dead pan flat lunchtime ride just to blow cobwebs out of tired legs. 

Even with this small sample the more I realise it was built for sprinters like Cavendish. Anything he does in a race then this bike does well. 

Fast on the flat - good
Quick to get on back of others - good
Hills - not brilliant but OK for inclines
Out of saddle to end a hill - very good
Sprint - incredible
Follow someone on flat - awesome


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## Foreigner

Hi there, first time here, just been reading so far. Sorry if my english is not good enough, it is my second language. Just wanted to tell you about my experience on the Venge, can't really comment on the Venge vs. Tarmac question because I have never ridden a Tarmac. 

Background: 40 year old male, 6´03" and 176 pounds. Have been riding all year round for the last 5 years, ice and snow in the winters. In my stable are 3 bikes: Venge Expert 2012, Crux Comp 2012 and an old Trek mtb. from last century. This summer I sold my alu Scott Speedster S40 2008 and got the Venge Expert instead. Please notice that I had no experience with higher end or carbon bikes until I got the Venge so you have to look at my experience with the Venge with that fact in mind. I have not raced a lot, only few races, but did a very long and tough race on the Scott this summer and plan on racing far more in the future. I live in a windy and somewhat hilly city. Mountains are not far away if I want to climb. This year I will ride over 3000 miles and have got 530 miles on the Venge already. My favorites are long rides on the roads, solo or with friends.

Choosing the right bike was not the easiest decision I have made. Torn between Tarmac and Roubaix at first when I thought Venge would not suit my riding. The guys at my lbs know me, my riding style and what I use my bikes for. They tried to steer me towards Venge as it would be perfect for my needs. At first I didn´t think that it would suit me, reading that it was harsh and a pure race bike, keeping in mind that I use this bike for commuting in the summer. But since I just love the look of the Venge I started to consider it as an option. I have to admit that I am kind of vain, if I am going to buy an expensive bike it must look good . . . and only good is not good enough, it must look better than that.

Long story short, I read everything I could find about the Venge so now I got torn between Venge, Tarmac and Roubaix. Unfortunately the only bike I could test was the Venge, but the short test ride did not really tell me anything. My lbs said that I would probably not be happy with the Roubaix. Finally I made the decision and got the Venge Expert. 

WOW . . . what a bike. I find it hard to believe how much better it is than my old Scott Speedster, it is light, responsive and (hold your breath) very comfortable in comparison with the Scott. If this is thought to be a harsh bike how soft is Roubaix? It must be like an old-steel-bike-soft. And I am yet to mention that this bike is fast, fast and fast. It cuts through the wind (maybe placebo) but headwind is definitely not as big issue for me now as it used to be. Hills are easier and my average speed is a lot higher. I am setting personal records all the time these days in various conditions. Funny thing, the Venge is always willing to go faster no matter the conditions (wind, hills etc.). If I can find any power in my legs to put down to the pedals the bike will simply go faster. That was not the case with the Scott, I guess I had just outgrown it. 

But if you are wondering, yes I can feel the road, this is not a plush bike but far away from being too harsh for every day use in my opinion. But you have to remember that the Scott was comfy enough for me so I guess performance is my priority. This bike is simply a joy to ride, I can almost hear it call me from the basement: Foreigner, why are you sitting in front of the computer? Let´s go out and have a long ride.

I am one happy Venge owner


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## izza

Foreigner - no problem with your english.

Me - I continue to be increasingly impressed with my Venge. Have a 140 mile ride planned for this Sunday but in terms of comfort, I've ridden 50 and 60 milers and been perfectly fine. Gel on the handlebars and padded shorts gives me a nicer cockpit than my SW SL3 tarmac.

Bjorn - as OP what did you go for?


----------



## bernithebiker

izza said:


> New components arrive tomorrow/Thursday. Will update the bike within the week.
> 
> Colours - poor man's Mclaren!!  No bad thing in my eyes.
> 
> Even the two rides I have done with the bike has been fantastic. First outing was actually the first time I have been on a bike for a month and with holiday extra weight (god damn those free milkshakes) and a bug I hit a wall badly and dragged my sorry frame home at an embarassing speed. Today, got out again for some dead pan flat lunchtime ride just to blow cobwebs out of tired legs.
> 
> Even with this small sample the more I realise it was built for sprinters like Cavendish. Anything he does in a race then this bike does well.
> 
> Fast on the flat - good
> Quick to get on back of others - good
> Hills - not brilliant but OK for inclines
> Out of saddle to end a hill - very good
> Sprint - incredible
> Follow someone on flat - awesome


Hi Izza, just curious, why do you say not brilliant on hills?
What is it specifically that holds it back on Hills?
Position? Stiffness?
Thanks!


----------



## izza

bernithebiker said:


> Hi Izza, just curious, why do you say not brilliant on hills?
> What is it specifically that holds it back on Hills?
> Position? Stiffness?
> Thanks!


Putting this in context - before the Venge I had a S-works tarmac which was a couple of hundred grams lighter than this bike. Plus, where I live we have no serious hills and definitely no mountains. So, if I break the ascent into three parts:

Start - Coming off a descent or flat, I enter inclines a touch faster. I go down the gears and try and use this initial momentum to set up a steady cadence. 
Middle - I try to keep a steady rhythm as I did on the Tarmac. The difference is subtle in that the liveliness/light feeling of the front end is reduced together with the small levels of total extra weight makes me feel (*)  that the rhythm/pedal cadence for a set gear is diminished slightly.
Top - coming over the crest, then jumping out of the saddle, the bike feels alive and eager to push forward so I feel faster exiting the incline.

For me where the parts are relatively equal in length or I can break the middle up by coming out of the saddle a few times, the Venge is fantastic. However, I suspect (no proof) that going up a Col in the Alps, etc would leave me in a position that I would want to conserve energy and stay in the saddle more. This in turn, I believe would see me fall behind a twin/ghost of myself on the Tarmac more than the final burst would allow me on the Venge to catch up.

* Let's not forget - I've only ridden the bike for 6 weeks. If an expert said it actually came down to "New Bike Syndrome" and/or the greater aero abilities of the bike egging me on to go faster on the flat thereby having less in reserves for hills, he could well be talking the truth. I can only go off how my legs feel. I have a 140 mile route planned for this Sunday, so can update after that.


----------



## bernithebiker

izza said:


> Putting this in context - before the Venge I had a S-works tarmac which was a couple of hundred grams lighter than this bike. Plus, where I live we have no serious hills and definitely no mountains. So, if I break the ascent into three parts:
> 
> Start - Coming off a descent or flat, I enter inclines a touch faster. I go down the gears and try and use this initial momentum to set up a steady cadence.
> Middle - I try to keep a steady rhythm as I did on the Tarmac. The difference is subtle in that the liveliness/light feeling of the front end is reduced together with the small levels of total extra weight makes me feel (*)  that the rhythm/pedal cadence for a set gear is diminished slightly.
> Top - coming over the crest, then jumping out of the saddle, the bike feels alive and eager to push forward so I feel faster exiting the incline.
> 
> For me where the parts are relatively equal in length or I can break the middle up by coming out of the saddle a few times, the Venge is fantastic. However, I suspect (no proof) that going up a Col in the Alps, etc would leave me in a position that I would want to conserve energy and stay in the saddle more. This in turn, I believe would see me fall behind a twin/ghost of myself on the Tarmac more than the final burst would allow me on the Venge to catch up.
> 
> * Let's not forget - I've only ridden the bike for 6 weeks. If an expert said it actually came down to "New Bike Syndrome" and/or the greater aero abilities of the bike egging me on to go faster on the flat thereby having less in reserves for hills, he could well be talking the truth. I can only go off how my legs feel. I have a 140 mile route planned for this Sunday, so can update after that.


Good answer, interesting and intelligent. (not just, WOW, my bike's fast!!!)

I did the Etape du Tour in the Pyrenees in July (202km and 5000 m of climbing) and saw quite a few SL4's but no Venges.

I would love to have both bikes but can't afford it, so as I love climbing it has to be the SL4 for me.

Happy riding!


----------



## Merc

izza said:


> Well that test ride cost me!!
> 
> Sold my SL3 frame within a day of getting back and deposit put down on 2013 S-works Venge frame. Colour scheme matt carbon/grey/red. Expected delivery - end of August. Can't wait!


Don't forget to post pics.


----------



## izza

Merc said:


> Don't forget to post pics.


I didn't

Scan up to post #63

Or here post #155 
https://forums.roadbikereview.com/specialized/photos-your-venge-268144-7.html

Or (if you're not bored yet!)


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## izza

bernithebiker said:


> Good answer, interesting and intelligent. (not just, WOW, my bike's fast!!!)
> 
> I did the Etape du Tour in the Pyrenees in July (202km and 5000 m of climbing) and saw quite a few SL4's but no Venges.
> 
> I would love to have both bikes but can't afford it, so as I love climbing it has to be the SL4 for me.
> 
> Happy riding!


Cheers.

At 190 lbs (86.4kg), I don't think I'll ever 'love' climbing!!

In terms of Tarmac v Venge, I found the former helped my weaknesses and the latter plays to my strengths. As such, like you, if I won the lottery then I'd get both but for now I really enjoy what I have.

Enjoy the hills - I'll try to draft you on the way up - by all means get the tea in from the summit cafe and then follow me on the way down!


----------



## bernithebiker

izza said:


> Cheers.
> 
> At 190 lbs (86.4kg), I don't think I'll ever 'love' climbing!!
> 
> In terms of Tarmac v Venge, I found the former helped my weaknesses and the latter plays to my strengths. As such, like you, if I won the lottery then I'd get both but for now I really enjoy what I have.
> 
> Enjoy the hills - I'll try to draft you on the way up - by all means get the tea in from the summit cafe and then follow me on the way down!


We'd make a good team! Me hiding behind you on the flat, then helping pace up the climbs. I like the weakness / strength line - I am the exact opposite to you, 63kg. But I do suffer on the flat, especially if there's a headwind.

Maybe they need to make a Varmac?


----------



## young-nyc

bernithebiker said:


> We'd make a good team! Me hiding behind you on the flat, then helping pace up the climbs. I like the weakness / strength line - I am the exact opposite to you, 63kg. But I do suffer on the flat, especially if there's a headwind.
> 
> Maybe they need to make a Varmac?


or a Tenge!


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## LouisLu

bernithebiker said:


> ...Maybe they need to make a Varmac?





young-nyc said:


> or a Tenge!


Varmac and Tenge. I like it:thumbsup:


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## izza

bernithebiker said:


> We'd make a good team! Me hiding behind you on the flat, then helping pace up the climbs. I like the weakness / strength line - I am the exact opposite to you, 63kg. But I do suffer on the flat, especially if there's a headwind.
> 
> Maybe they need to make a Varmac?


Trust me - behind me there is no headwind.


----------



## izza

izza said:


> Putting this in context - before the Venge I had a S-works tarmac which was a couple of hundred grams lighter than this bike. Plus, where I live we have no serious hills and definitely no mountains. So, if I break the ascent into three parts:
> 
> Start - Coming off a descent or flat, I enter inclines a touch faster. I go down the gears and try and use this initial momentum to set up a steady cadence.
> Middle - I try to keep a steady rhythm as I did on the Tarmac. The difference is subtle in that the liveliness/light feeling of the front end is reduced together with the small levels of total extra weight makes me feel (*)  that the rhythm/pedal cadence for a set gear is diminished slightly.
> Top - coming over the crest, then jumping out of the saddle, the bike feels alive and eager to push forward so I feel faster exiting the incline.
> 
> For me where the parts are relatively equal in length or I can break the middle up by coming out of the saddle a few times, the Venge is fantastic. However, I suspect (no proof) that going up a Col in the Alps, etc would leave me in a position that I would want to conserve energy and stay in the saddle more. This in turn, I believe would see me fall behind a twin/ghost of myself on the Tarmac more than the final burst would allow me on the Venge to catch up.
> 
> * Let's not forget - I've only ridden the bike for 6 weeks. If an expert said it actually came down to "New Bike Syndrome" and/or the greater aero abilities of the bike egging me on to go faster on the flat thereby having less in reserves for hills, he could well be talking the truth. I can only go off how my legs feel. I have a 140 mile route planned for this Sunday, so can update after that.


Update:

After 135 miles (12 to the sportive, 115 miles on the sportive, 8 back home) in one day I can confirm:

- I'm knackered. I had a sprained back last week and rode with heated back patches stuck on my lower spine and was worried that it would jar but never had a problem - even though I forgot to take my co-dydramol/diclofenac pills in case of need.
- The bike is a dream. I felt comfortable all the way round. The only area that felt a bit frayed was between my thumbs and first finger. The gel may have sorted out vibrations out for the rest of my hands but obviously, this doesn't help that one area which rests on the hoods. There was some tenderness after about 100 miles 
- The route was rolling hills all day with a high proportion of winding lanes and regular stop/starts at road junctions. The bike excels at pulling away from stand stills and descending.
- I find the bike is much better at changing speed than my Tarmac. So, whether it was on the flat or more importantly on the hills, if I'm passed by someone else I can spin up quicker and to better effect and get on their back wheel. So for all the people that say it can't climb as well as a Tarmac, I would answer "Probably true on a training ride on your own, but not true if you are climbing in a group. The Venge gives a real mental lift to the rider as you get out of the saddle and it thrusts forward to allow wheel-sucking to help you up the hill."
- Many people state the bike is not as refined and more tiring as the Tarmac. I can't agree. IF you get the cockpit comfortable then when in difficulty or feeling tired the ability to get a better rest behind others or take a breather in a group allows you to finish rides stronger.
- Never mind the bike I couldn't get near Sean Conway (Sean Conway - Home) on uphill or flat sprints. However he had done over 17,000 miles training for this 115 mile sportive. The man is (on the bike) a monster!!


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## young-nyc

Thanks for the feedback! very nice!...
This just confirms that I made a great buying decision and can't wait for my bike to come in..oh boy it's still going to be a long wait till mid-late November.


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## ajminn

izza said:


> Cheers.
> 
> At 190 lbs (86.4kg), I don't think I'll ever 'love' climbing!!
> 
> In terms of Tarmac v Venge, I found the former helped my weaknesses and the latter plays to my strengths. As such, like you, if I won the lottery then I'd get both but for now I really enjoy what I have.
> 
> Enjoy the hills - I'll try to draft you on the way up - by all means get the tea in from the summit cafe and then follow me on the way down!


Izza, do you feel that the Tarmac helped "reduce" your weaknesses more than the Venge helped "enhance" your strengths? At 6'3", 95 kg, I'm leaning more towards the Venge over the Tarmac, and if I had the money, I'd get both, but I'm thinking that no amount of bike is going to help me up the hills as much as the Venge would help me on the flats. 

Also, don't know if you answered this before, but as far as handling when descending, do you feel that the Venge is on par with the Tarmac. I've heard they have the exact same geometry, but people have also said that the Tarmac feels more on rails when descending than the Venge does. Thanks!


----------



## young-nyc

ajminn said:


> Also, don't know if you answered this before, but as far as handling when descending, do you feel that the Venge is on par with the Tarmac. I've heard they have the exact same geometry, but people have also said that the Tarmac feels more on rails when descending than the Venge does. Thanks!


From looking at this review,
it seems that the Venge descends faster than the Tarmac..Enjoy!

http://www.pelotonmagazine.com/Tested-Bikes/video/8/875/Specialized-Venge-Video-Review


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## tiflow_21

Bever66ly said:


> The Tarmac is a smoother ride but the Venge is a faster bike.


No.

The tarmac is designed to be the best performing and lightest design without compromises specialized can make.

The venge is designed to perform as best possible while aerodynamics are a much larger part of the design objective.

Two of the local racers, larger guys who do much better in flat races, were not impressed by the s-works venge. This is in the midwest where there are a lot of flats. One got rid of his mid-way through the season, the other at the end of the season. Both are planning on SL4s next year.

The venge is a very nice frameset, but not everyone is going to like it more than a tarmac.


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## dcorn

What was their reason for ditching the Venge? Was "I don't like it" the only justification?

And to counter your comments, the SL4 Tarmac was specifically designed to add compliance to a race bike while keeping it stiff in the bottom bracket. The Venge is a super stiff aero bike designed to cut the wind and transfer every ounce of power to the wheel. Technically, yes, the Tarmac is a more comfortable ride and I think everyone who rides them will tell you that. And yes, the Venge was designed to be faster because it's basically an aero version of the tarmac. 

Honestly, I love both Venge and Tarmac, but I think for some reason the Venge just looks way more mean and racy. I don't think I could find enough difference between the two to prove one is better than the other at any given thing.


----------



## izza

ajminn said:


> Izza, do you feel that the Tarmac helped "reduce" your weaknesses more than the Venge helped "enhance" your strengths? At 6'3", 95 kg, I'm leaning more towards the Venge over the Tarmac, and if I had the money, I'd get both, but I'm thinking that no amount of bike is going to help me up the hills as much as the Venge would help me on the flats.


Difficult to say but erring on the side of 'No'. I was fortunate to get the right bike for me at that specific time in my 'cycling life'. 

When I started road cycling I was over 105kg, owned a Focus Cayo and hills were real problems for me. After a year's cycling, I bought the Tarmac. Instantly, it helped me go up steep inclines where the Focus saw me zigzagging across roads forcing me to get off and walk. Even though I was going up at 3mph, the achievement raised my aspirations and I got on to doing hill repeats. In doing so, I got stronger and rapidly lost weight.

3 years later, my leg strength and weight losses have levelled off (steady at 85kg). With the Venge, I'm not suddenly being dropped by cycling friends on inclines but I do move away from them on the flats/descents. My average speeds have increased over longer rides and Strava PB's keep dropping. I can use the bike to draft and descend better to keep me fresher for the hills.

So if you've cycled more than a few years and are used to peloton/group riding then for the larger cyclist I would recommend the Venge. If (like a lot of guys on London roads) you've been inspired by Bradley Wiggins to have a go, I'd say get a tarmac and get some achievements under your belt.

From an enjoyment perspective - Venge all the way!!



ajminn said:


> Also, don't know if you answered this before, but as far as handling when descending, do you feel that the Venge is on par with the Tarmac. I've heard they have the exact same geometry, but people have also said that the Tarmac feels more on rails when descending than the Venge does. Thanks!


The Tarmac is more nimble - its sharper and quicker to turn. The instant you lean the bike it cornered. The Venge feels more like the front of the bike is heavier. This gives a more planted and most importantly, natural cornering feel *to me*. I look through a bend and that is where the Venge goes which has definitely boosted my confidence on descents. The caveat is that others may look through a corner differently, want a more nimble feeling or have a more subtle riding style to me. That rider would prefer the Tarmac.

As an example of how natural the Venge feels to me - on only my second ride, I was doing some through and off practice with a friend. I was on my friend's rear wheel at the time and the car in front slammed on the anchors. I swerved to avoid my friend, then swerved to avoid the car onto the the other side of the road. There was an oncoming car and I had to swerve back in to my side. In that split second, the bike went where I wanted and I never felt like I wanted to grab the brakes in a blind panic. My friend was gasping on how he nearly seen me totally destroy my brand new superbike (his words not mine). At the time, I just kept thinking that had I been on the Tarmac either me or the bike probably wouldn't be here.


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## young-nyc

great write up izza!
glad you are still with us and not pancaked by uncoming traffic 
love hearing feedback from Venge owners,
If you have any more stories to share about this bike...please do so!


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## nagge

Yes please keep us informed so we can keep our minds of the unbearable wait!


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## izza

young-nyc said:


> great write up izza!
> glad you are still with us and not pancaked by uncoming traffic
> love hearing feedback from Venge owners,
> If you have any more stories to share about this bike...please do so!





nagge said:


> Yes please keep us informed so we can keep our minds of the unbearable wait!


Cheers.

Standard training rides this weekend but October 14 is sportive with group of guys who did London 2 Paris with me in June. Let's see how I get on!


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## 1LaneLam

Nice write-up Izza. 

One thing I don't get is on how you almost wrecked your Venge, but you managed to swerved out of the way because the Venge is less nimble than the Tarmac? Are you saying if the Venge was a little more nimble like the Tarmac, you would've crashed or collided into the car?


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## young-nyc

Maybe the Tarmac is too nimble and in panic situations it would "oversteer" caused by sudden movements,
as opposed to the Venge which is a bit more planted and natural.


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## izza

1LaneLam said:


> Nice write-up Izza.
> 
> One thing I don't get is on how you almost wrecked your Venge, but you managed to swerved out of the way because the Venge is less nimble than the Tarmac? Are you saying if the Venge was a little more nimble like the Tarmac, you would've crashed or collided into the car?


As Young-nyc said, I found the Tarmac to be too sharp. I would normally find this on fast roundabouts or sharp bends on descents, where I would lean in and quite often had to straighten up momentarily, and then lean in again. I put that down to me during my ownership and thereby felt less confident to throw the bike around.

In a panic situation, I would be more nervous, turn too rapidly and be forced to correct. The Venge feels more natural to me and thus in the above incident I felt like I was in a fast, controlled slalom routine rather than an exercise in watching my life go by and endeavouring not to soil my padded bibshorts.

I do have empirical evidence (medical reports, court papers, photos, etc.) that the Focus bike is even worse in such situations - however, on the upside I can confirm the German frames do shatter very cleanly right across the top tube when they come into contact at speed with cars.:yikes:


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## ckc527

ukbloke said:


> Tarmac - I appreciate the extra comfort on long rides, and the incremental performance when climbing.


sorry got a dumb question...why would the Tarmac provide extra comfort on longer rides? Don't both bikes have exact geometry?

Thanks
ckc


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## dcorn

ckc527 said:


> sorry got a dumb question...why would the Tarmac provide extra comfort on longer rides? Don't both bikes have exact geometry?
> 
> Thanks
> ckc


Direction and type of carbon weave in the frame. SL4 tarmac is designed to be more 'vertically compliant', so it has a bit of give when going over bumps and such. Still torsionally stiff like the Venge though.


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## diegogarcia

I had a Venge earlier this year in a size 56cm which was great, but there was something about the bike that made it feel massive - too big for my inseam. Turns out it was the stand over - I hated it - a massive 13mm taller than the Tarmac SL3 I sold to fund the Venge with.

So I sold it on and bought the SL4 Tarmac which is a truly stunning bike. But, I feel I have unfinished business with the Venge so I may get a 54cm in the Spring 2013 and give it another go with a longer cockpit. I have a weird body in so much that my legs are short, body long, so really no bike is ideal aside from custom though I think I can make a 54cm sing somewhat with a good fit as I always felt like I was behind the BB on the 56cm even though I was pushing 170mm crank arms.


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## dcorn

Interesting (you sold that WC46 Venge??).

Did you get the SL4 in a 56cm or 54? I've got a 56 SL3 Tarmac and I can't help but wonder if it's actually the right size or a tad too big. I'm 5'11" or so with a 32" inseam and I feel super stretched out on my bike, even with a 100mm stem and the seat way forward. I know the Tarmac and Venge are supposed to be the same geometry, but sounds like you are saying there is a difference.

Which do you prefer (T or V) now that you have the SL4 version, standover height aside?


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## diegogarcia

dcorn said:


> Interesting (you sold that WC46 Venge??).
> 
> Did you get the SL4 in a 56cm or 54? I've got a 56 SL3 Tarmac and I can't help but wonder if it's actually the right size or a tad too big. I'm 5'11" or so with a 32" inseam and I feel super stretched out on my bike, even with a 100mm stem and the seat way forward. I know the Tarmac and Venge are supposed to be the same geometry, but sounds like you are saying there is a difference.
> 
> Which do you prefer (T or V) now that you have the SL4 version, standover height aside?


Correct. I think that stand over is the key difference in why people are finding the bikes so different. It was not good for me, due to having relatively short in-seam against overall height and *I kick myself for 'assuming' that the geo was identical as it is not*. BUT, have to say, both bikes are top drawer and hand on heart, would take both, though I don't need two top end machines. I can only rehash what others say in regards to the way the bikes climb. Tarmac slightly more lively at slower speeds, Venge has more BB grunt on the long climbs and reminds me of a Cervelo bike. 

My Tarmac is 56cm with an inline seat post. To be honest, if Specialized made a 55cm bike with a 74 degree seat tube I would be laughing. This is how my 2012 Langster rides and that is bob on for me....

I have pretty much concluded to drop some cash on a 54cm Venge for 2013 though so will update more as and when....:thumbsup:


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## young-nyc

goodluck with ur purchase 
i'm still waiting on my 2013 Venge I can't wait, but my LBS said it won't be here till January!! arghh!


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## Samu66el

I think that the Tarmac would probably be lighter and snappier than the Venge.


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## stom

I have been riding the venge for a month. Love it. It suits my strengths as a flat/hilly rider. IMO it looks better than the sl4.


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