# I need something dependable . . very dependable.



## europeorbust (Feb 12, 2005)

So . . a buddy and I are planning an extended tour of Europe starting about june 1st and we're not planning on comming back until at least september. Considering that neither of us has the slightest bit of experience with anything this major, we could sure use some advice from someone who isn't selling something.

The two most suggested touring specific bikes under $1500 in my shopping experiences are gonna be the Trek520 and the CannondaleT2000. The Cannondale's just a generally stronger component setup especially after we replace the crank with something on the ultegra line for a low low granny gear (how low should I go? 22?), but the Trek has a steel frame.

Does steel matter or should I trust my local Cannondale dealer that they produced a smooth Aluminum frame?

Has anyone done a tour of this distance? Any suggestions on other brands?

Any helpful advice on parts that are easy to replace throughout europe? My Cannondale guy tells me that 90% of what's on the T2000 I should have no problem having replaced or serviced, but does anyone have any specific advice on bits to avoid?

Thanks for any kind of help. I sure could use it.


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## MikeBiker (Mar 9, 2003)

Europe has lots of bike shops and mechanics. If anything breaks, I'm sure someone could get a replacement part installed.

Most items that break do so early on. Whichever bike you get, make sure to get 500 miles or so on it before the trip. That way any cable stretch can be adjusted for. The only parts that I can think of taking would be tubes and chain pins/links.


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## jumpstumper (Aug 17, 2004)

I like the Specialized touring bikes, but the Trek and Cannondale are great too. 

What breaks most often on a bike? Not the frame, so doesn't really matter if its steel or aluminium, or whatever - whatever feels best, get it! The only thing I've ever broke in extended rides/tours would be spokes and of course flats. Get bullitproof wheels like the Mavic Open Pro, and make sure you take extra spokes and a spoke wrench. Learn how to true a wheel in the field. If you break a derailleur or a brake, you can still ride until you can get it fixed. Take a chain tool as well...


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## The Walrus (Apr 2, 2000)

*Trek and Cannondale are the two most common makes I encounter...*

...when I'm touring. (FWIW, my usual rig is an ancient Novara (REI) Randonee that keeps chugging along, but I've used a Bianchi Axis when towing a B.O.B. trailer. If there's an REI store near you, you should check out the current Randonee.) I'm not sure what gearing the Trek and Cannondale come with, but if they have the road triple (52/42/30) as I suspect they do, you'll want to replace it to get some real-world gearing. The number of veteran tourists I've seen pushing those big gears is less than a dozen. Sugino makes a triple that comes with 46/36/24 rings that'll give you as much top end as you can use while lugging 40-50 pounds of gear and still get you over the mountains. Check it out: http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/cranks_bbs_c-rings/12067.html.

I can't think of too many other makes that fit into your budget constraints, except maybe Fuji or Bianchi (the Volpe). Don't let someone sell you a sport tourer or a road bike that happens to have rack mounts. Unless you're expecting to do credit card touring (for 3+ months?), get a proper touring bike.


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## diatribe (Jun 7, 2004)

Hello,

I can't help with the bike gear help, however Rick Steve's packing light tips could help you figure out what you'll need for everything else. 

http://www.transitionsabroad.com/publications/magazine/0211/ricksteves_packlighttravelhappy.shtml

There's another thread, I think in General Discussion, that links to a site about a guy doing a "round the world" bike tour. You might be able to get some additional hints about what to use/take.

Good Luck,
diatribe


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## Spinfinity (Feb 3, 2004)

*What we have here is touring snobbery.*



The Walrus said:


> ...
> IDon't let someone sell you a sport tourer or a road bike that happens to have rack mounts. Unless you're expecting to do credit card touring (for 3+ months?), get a proper touring bike.


Kind of like the racers who think nobody will be content riding anyything other than a sub 16 pound race bike with a short wheel base and a really big drop from the seat to the handle bars. Sport touring bikes work fine as long as the chain stay is long enough to keep the panniers clear of your heels. I've lived off one for 4 months without it any problems with the frame or components. 

As for gears, get what you need to ride where you're going. A fit, young rider could tour in Florida with nothing easier than a 39x24. For me, riding up a mountain in an easier gear than 30x32 would be less efficient than getting off and walking, YMMV.


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## Potential Roadkill (Jan 27, 2005)

*Get set up for the area you're going to tour*



europeorbust said:


> So . . a buddy and I are planning an extended tour of Europe starting about june 1st and we're not planning on comming back until at least september. Considering that neither of us has the slightest bit of experience with anything this major, we could sure use some advice from someone who isn't selling something.
> 
> The two most suggested touring specific bikes under $1500 in my shopping experiences are gonna be the Trek520 and the CannondaleT2000. The Cannondale's just a generally stronger component setup especially after we replace the crank with something on the ultegra line for a low low granny gear (how low should I go? 22?), but the Trek has a steel frame.
> 
> ...


The guy who said that you can find a bike shop easily in europe pretty much nailed it. At least in all of western Europe and a lot of eastern any medium sized village will have a bike shope with pretty much any replacement part you could need. 
Gearing wise, you need to look at your fitness level and the terrain you're going to be traveling, there's some pretty sizable hills over there, so I'd go with the most flexible gear ratios you can get. Enjoy your tour! I'll be moving back to Germany this summer and can't wait to get someplace where bikes have equal rights with cars...


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## Scot_Gore (Jan 25, 2002)

*Dependable....here's just the ticket*

http://www.bgcycles.com/blt.html

A Bruce Gordon BLT lands in your price range. BG main goal (more like a core value) in his designs is dependability. He uses barcons, not because he thinks they shift better, but because they last longer and can be more easily field repaired. 

He designs with the idea that you will be carrying a load. Other bikes mostly design with around the idea that you won't be carrying a load. 

His frames leave plenty of room for fenders and larger tires, something you'll likely struggle with on the other models you mention. 

A BG is not a bike that is going to stripped down and ready for Saturdays crit. It's a touring machine, it's a workhorse, not a Gazelle.

Have fun on the tour.


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## Rolando (Jan 13, 2005)

*You need low gears*

Last summer, I spent a week in the Pyrennes with two of my buddies riding every day. We did Tourmalet, Aspin, Aspet, Peysourdes and others. It was possibly the best adventure that I've ever had! However, we did it by credit card, stopping at hotels every night with no camping. We each carried about 20lbs of stuff with us in rear panniers. I was the only guy without a triple, I had the standard 52 39 and my lowest gear on the back was a 25. Take it from me. Get lower gears definitely! Going up anything with an average grade of 7% or more gets real tough. If you are going to carry camping gear, you will have to be a cycling monster to get up some of these hills and you do want to do the hills.

You are going to have a great summer bro!


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## wmango (Jan 25, 2005)

*Trek 520*

I have a Trak 520 and IMHO it's a good touring bike if it fits you well. The gearing is a little high, but all in all it's a good bike. Because mine doesn't feel right fit-wise, I'm looking at building up a Surly Long Haul Trucker for my next big tour.


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## The Walrus (Apr 2, 2000)

*Like you say, YMMV*

I got the Randonee after earlier attempts at touring on a couple of sport tourers which just couldn't handle loads at speed. I remember one particularly thrilling descent in the mountains when there was kind of a tail-wagging-the-dog shimmying, because the top tube wasn't burly enough to prevent flex in the frame. I've encountered this to varying degrees on a half-dozen bikes that I rashly loaded with several weeks' worth of gear; these bikes were great with up to 20-25 lbs, but beyond that they weren't just unpleasant, they bordered on being dangerous. I'm not saying it's impossible to have a satisfactory tour on a sport tourer, but I'd rather do a full-on tour with a full-on touring bike and think later that maybe it was more bike than I needed, than to compromise on the bike and regret it. It's not snobbery, just caution.


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## moschika (Feb 1, 2004)

Scot_Gore said:


> http://www.bgcycles.com/blt.html
> 
> A BG is not a bike that is going to stripped down and ready for Saturdays crit. It's a touring machine, it's a workhorse, not a Gazelle.
> 
> Have fun on the tour.


not mention that his bikes are of super quality. i've seen a few around here, and he's highly regarded framebuilder. just check out his "ethnically diverse robot workforce"
http://www.bgcycles.com/factory2.html


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## M.J. (Jan 28, 2004)

*what's your route?*



europeorbust said:


> So . . a buddy and I are planning an extended tour of Europe starting about june 1st and we're not planning on comming back until at least september. Considering that neither of us has the slightest bit of experience with anything this major, we could sure use some advice from someone who isn't selling something.
> 
> The two most suggested touring specific bikes under $1500 in my shopping experiences are gonna be the Trek520 and the CannondaleT2000. The Cannondale's just a generally stronger component setup especially after we replace the crank with something on the ultegra line for a low low granny gear (how low should I go? 22?), but the Trek has a steel frame.
> 
> ...


where you going ?


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## jh_on_the_cape (Apr 14, 2004)

In short, I suggest the one that you purchase from an excellent dealership locally. I did this and it was VERY useful one or two times when touring. Something broke and I was having a hard time sorting out a repair. I called the bike shop at home and they shipped me what I needed express mail. I had to pay the high shipping charge, but they let me pay when I returned home because they trusted me, and I trusted that they sent the correct part quickly. It was a derailluer hanger of the replacement kind.
Make sure the wheels use regular spokes, not the newer kind with special spokes for the particular brand (bike shop should know what I am talking about).

Things I strongly suggest purchasing when you get the bike:
spokes, at least one of each length on the bike (most likely 3 different lengths). i taped them to the bike frame.
fenders
tons of zip ties and duct tape. i wrapped the ducttape on my seatpost to store it, it is sticky on the second use no problem.
get basic tools and know how to use them. many shops can help with this, or take a little course at REI or something. 
handlbar bag with map holder. much better than pulling out the map every 5 minutes.

and finally if you are both getting new bikes for the trip, consider getting the same bike so you can share spare parts and knowledge.

but really, ask around locally about a really good bike shop.


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## europeorbust (Feb 12, 2005)

*Good call*



jumpstumper said:


> What breaks most often on a bike? Not the frame, so doesn't really matter if its steel or aluminium, or whatever - whatever feels best, get it! The only thing I've ever broke in extended rides/tours would be spokes and of course flats. Get bullitproof wheels like the Mavic Open Pro, and make sure you take extra spokes and a spoke wrench. Learn how to true a wheel in the field. If you break a derailleur or a brake, you can still ride until you can get it fixed. Take a chain tool as well...


Thanks a lot for that. You're probably quite right and that was pointed out to me before (about the frame) but i guess i just needed to hear it twice for it to sink it. I think i'm leaning towards the cannondale which does come with the Mavic A719.


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## europeorbust (Feb 12, 2005)

*Thanks*

That couldn't be more helpful. I've read 20 of those things and everytime i read a new one i get excited cause theres always something i didn't know.


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## europeorbust (Feb 12, 2005)

Is the weight reduction gained by cannondale using the aluminum frame something that would fall in this category of shimmy causing aspects i should worry about?


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## europeorbust (Feb 12, 2005)

*Its doesn't matter . .*



M.J. said:


> where you going ?


and thats the beauty -

It looks like we're shooting for ridding northwest from the southern tip of italy in late may (i know a couple kids in naples) - through as much of the UK as we can get around during july and august - and then south along the coast as its getting colder and maybe out through spain. 

the details have been planned over and over again and it seems like winging it with the longest list of possible places to go is gonna be the best plan. sound like a good idea?


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## europeorbust (Feb 12, 2005)

*Brilliant!*

Thats my main beef with using the BG over the Cannondale I think. I know and trust, for some reason, a guy selling the Cannondale and you do make a very good point about how convenient it would be to have someone that accessable to call if i'm in a tight spot. 
And, I completly agree with me and the partner in crime buying the same bike - to share tools and general knowledge. we'll both purchase something in about a month and ride em as often as possible and compare notes.

thanks a lot, man


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## jh_on_the_cape (Apr 14, 2004)

europeorbust said:


> Thats my main beef with using the BG over the Cannondale I think. I know and trust, for some reason, a guy selling the Cannondale and you do make a very good point about how convenient it would be to have someone that accessable to call if i'm in a tight spot.
> And, I completly agree with me and the partner in crime buying the same bike - to share tools and general knowledge. we'll both purchase something in about a month and ride em as often as possible and compare notes.
> 
> thanks a lot, man


you are welcome. if you have time when you get back, reply to this post with some pictures as a way of 'giving back'.


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## The Walrus (Apr 2, 2000)

*Shouldn't be an issue...*

...on the touring-specific frame(s). I know people who've logged tens of thousands of miles on 'dales, so there couldn't be anything fundamentally wrong with 'em. As for a weight reduction resulting from using aluminum, I'm not sure how much of a difference that really makes by the time the bike is built up, and then loaded down with the touring gear. Since you're going to be spending months on the bike, I'd pay more attention to fit than frame material.


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## Ken2 (Jan 30, 2004)

*One more thing about wheels*

One thing no one has mentioned that is crucial: any bike you mention will have machine-built wheels whose spokes are prone to be undertensioned and/or loosen over time. I would strongly urge that you ride the bike for a few hundred miles and then take it to a trusted wheelbuilder/shop and have them retension and true everything. Better yet, have them check the spoke tension right out of the box AND again before you depart on the tour. 

The most common cause of spoke breakage is undertensioned spokes that overflex, and with loads the flexing is worse! It hardly matter how great the wheel components are if the build isn't up to snuff.


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## Scot_Gore (Jan 25, 2002)

Personally if I was a betting man and you were to ask me who would respond faster and with higher quality answers to my emergency call form the far side of planet.

A) My LBS
or
B) My custom bike builder

I'd have to bet on my custom bike builder (sorry LBS). 

But honestly this wouldn't be a concern of mine. If I find myself in emergency need of assistance in a foreign country, then I'm going to find help locally in the foreign country. Calling stateside at 4:00am isn't going to help me much, no matter how concerned the folks are on the other end of the line. 

And also personally, which solution is least likely to cause me to implement a contingency plan is more important to me that which solution has the better contingency plan.

2 cents

Scot


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## europeorbust (Feb 12, 2005)

you could've just saved me from being stuck in the middle of nowhere, non-english speaking country with more broken spokes than i brought spares for or know what to do with.

thanks a lot ken2

*does the quality or rather specific brand of the spoke itself matter for that weighted touring?
*do you know anything about the 'DT competition' thats stock on the cannondale?
*and (i'm assuming the most important) how do i find an expert at such things or a review of the shops work from i'll probably buy this bike?

thanks again ken2 and anyone else who want to help out.


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## damon (Dec 24, 2001)

europeorbust said:


> you could've just saved me from being stuck in the middle of nowhere, non-english speaking country with more broken spokes than i brought spares for or know what to do with.


Ok, so this may not be the most convenient reply, but if you are going to be spending that much time touring (freakin rad, by the way... i took a several month trip through alaska, canada, and down to oregon and LOVED it!), in my opinion there is one thing above all else that matters:

know how to fix *everything* on your bike.

Now, admittedly, this is more important in the middle of alaska, literally 500 miles from anyone who knows anything about anything with only 2 wheels, but this level of self-sufficiency will prevent trouble from happening. The main downside is that this is a fair bit of learning and it can take a little while to become comfortable with all mechanical aspects of your bike.

Know how to adjust headsets, hubs, true wheels (and replace spokes), quick fixes for busted chains or seats and tacoed wheels. I've seen guys spending years on beat up old junkers that just kept going because they knew how a bike was supposed to feel, and took care of something before it went bad. With only a modicum of creativity, a small handful of tools can rebuild an entire bike (should the need arise).
.........
For my tour, i rode with 4 dutch guys and we all had just regular old mountain bikes with b.o.b. trailers. Suspension forks, semi-slicks, the whole standard mtb thing. This setup worked really well for what we were doing (a lot of gravel roads). We had a couple changes of cycling clothes, a couple sets of "real" clothes, food stuff, sleeping stuff, and bike stuff. All equipment came in at just over 110lbs. By picking smart, light, and easily packed stuff, you'd be surprised at how comfortably you can live out of a small bag.

You never mentioned if you were doing a fully self-supported tour (i.e. sleeping in the wilderness), or doing the credit card tour thing... One would tend to approach them pretty differently.

As far as the spokes go, everything DT is high quality. You'll likely want the 14/15g spokes for strength, but 15/16s that are well built could be fine, too (the c-dale should have the former). To validate the quality of the wheelbuild, the shop should have something called a "Tensiometer" which gives a reading of how tight the spoke is stretched in the wheel. All spokes should be relatively even (+/- 5-10%). I would imagine any decent shop should be willing to check this for you and make sure the wheel is good before the bike goes out the door. Honestly, for sake of time and $$$, most shops just assume wheels on new bikes are good without checking them (usually OK). 

Sorry for the length ;-), and i hope you really enjoy your european tour!

-Damon


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## Chris Crash (Feb 28, 2005)

Nice plan. Not a lot of long distannce touring experience but years of long daily commutes in nasty conditions day after day. 

Advice?

Go steel - you'll appreciate the ride quality and durability that Aluminum cannot match. If your concerned with weigth you could go for Aluminum with carbon post and forks. Have a look at the Devinci Caribou or Sydney www.devinci.com. for rack/ panier compatible Carbon / Al bikes with disc brakes. Or go with a cross bike like a Jamis Nova.

Stick with traditional wheels, open pro's a good suggestion or anything with 28 /32 hole and DT quality spokes. 
Tires - very crucial IMHO. Conti Top Touring 2000, bullet proof, not too big or too slow. Get em in 28 to 38C your prefernce. Last about 6-8000Km no problem. Be surpirsed if you get one flat. decent in rain and gravel/dirt trails.


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## Thommy (Sep 23, 2003)

*C-dale, then sell*

My friend went to Europe 4 years ago on a C-dale. I personally hate their marketing tactics and think they are way gimmicky but, if you go with the C-dale you could sell that sucker over in Europe. That's what my friend did. Claims he made his investment back and then some. Or so he says.


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