# Compound training: on-bike first then weights, or vice-versa?



## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Q: what's better: on-bike sprint workout first, then weights, they plyo? or some other sequence? 

Long backstory: lost a bunch of leg muscle mass and strength due to illness. Aerobic/threshold is still competitive but I have no sprint strength so I'm re-building.

Plan is on-bike sprint / anaerobic work, plus weights, plus plyo.

Tips? 

does sequencing matter?


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

First: Plyometrics. Done properly, they cause very little fatigue, because the physiological stress is mainly neuromuscular... meaning that they modify the way your brain/nerves/muscles work together rather than causing a physical change to the muscle itself. Also, you will see the best results from them if you are _not_ fatigued when you're doing them.

Second and third depend on your goals/priorities. 

Personally, I'd choose the bike sprint workout to be second because, like plyometrics, a workout in which you're trying to produce large amounts of force at high rates of speed is best performed when you are not fatigued. Unlike plyometrics, you're more prone to experience fatigue from a cycling workout. 
The strength training workout will likely cause some muscle damage, which would lessen your ability (albeit by a pretty small amount) to perform either plyometrics or sprints. However, if you're doing the cycling workout before the weights, you may experience some fatigue, so you may not be able to lift as much... or it may not affect your ability to lift at all... there are a lot of factors at work, so there's really only one way to find out. 

I'm a fan of complex training, which takes advantage of the physiological phenomenon of post activation potentiation. It's what's going on in your muscles when you lift something really really heavy, then, when you go to lift something light, you nearly throw it across the room. In that case, you combine your plyometric/power training and strength training. 

Example in-season workout for me:
Warm up with some light squats and 1/2 to 3/4 height vertical jumps
3-5 sets alternating the following pairs of exercises:

3-5 reps back squat (~85% 1RM)
5 vertical jumps (some w/countermovement, some from static squat position- 100% effort)

3-5 reps deadlift (~85% 1RM)
3 reps snatch (~70% 1RM) (if you don't know the Olympic lifts, just sub a different plyo)

3-5 reps 1-leg leg press (~70% 1RM, focus on pushing the plate hard/fast enough that it loses contact w/my feet)
3 reps each leg plyometric step-ups (put 1 foot on a box high enough to simulate knee/hip angle @ top position when pedaling)

Each set of the pair is done with no rest period between the two exercises. After each set of the two exercises, you want full recovery, so you rest 2-3 minutes (example- set of squats, rack weight, immediately perform vertical jumps, then take a 3 minute break before the next set of squats/vertical jumps).


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

cool thanks... I knew you'd have teh scoop.


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## tomk96 (Sep 24, 2007)

Andrea138 said:


> I'm a fan of complex training, which takes advantage of the physiological phenomenon of post activation potentiation. .



try saying that 3x fast.



if i do this, will i be able to walk?


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

I say that all the time when I lecture, so I'm pretty used to it 


...and yes.


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Quickest way to end a thread on weight training is to have Andrea respond.

Carry on?


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## tomk96 (Sep 24, 2007)

iliveonnitro said:


> Quickest way to end a thread on weight training is to have Andrea respond.
> 
> Carry on?


such a thread killer.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

dear training diary: I ended up doing the sprint workout, then meeting up w/ some clubbies, who told me one of our guys had been hit, so I went home and worked the phones.


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## muscleendurance (Jan 11, 2009)

Andrea138 said:


> I'm a fan of complex training, which takes advantage of the physiological phenomenon of post activation potentiation. .





Andrea138 said:


> I say that all the time when I lecture, so I'm pretty used to it


care to share your area of expertise? (for the board)


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

Master's degree in Health & Sport Science

Now I teach Exercise Physiology (basically, what happens in your body when you exercise) and Advanced Methods of Strength and Conditioning (applying exercise physiology to design periodized training programs for athletes)


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

and an accomplished athlete in at least 2 different sports, which she's too modest to mention.


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## muscleendurance (Jan 11, 2009)

Andrea138 said:


> Master's degree in Health & Sport Science
> 
> Now I teach Exercise Physiology (basically, what happens in your body when you exercise) and Advanced Methods of Strength and Conditioning (applying exercise physiology to design periodized training programs for athletes)


Thanks for sharing that, its nice to know 
and now I know why you kill threads like this as Nitro and others said!


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## moab63 (Aug 7, 2006)

*Andrea score's big*

nothing like books and degrees:thumbsup: and then real world experience.


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## leon2982 (May 20, 2007)

Would this be on days that you were not going to ride? Any links to good polymetrics for cyclists? Thank you.


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## wfrogge (Mar 5, 2007)

She also runs barefoot in the woods...


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

plyometrics for cyclists....

http://tinyurl.com/djdv6t


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

wfrogge said:


> She also runs barefoot in the woods...


true dat.


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