# American River Parkway, group rides, crashes, and liability?.....



## RedRex (Oct 24, 2004)

(crossover from gen cycling forum)

I'm curious about some of the goings-on that occur on the American River Parkway. For some reason, the Parkway is experiencing group rides at an alarming rate, and nearly every time I observe them, they are riding over the yellow line. There are near-misses and collisions quite often. The Parkway is probably one of the most dangerous places in the entire country to ride.

So take a look at my diagram. Assume that the blue and green shapes are cyclists footprints, showing (crudely) the width of their handlebar and seat. Rudimentary but you get the picture.

The blue cyclist (a) is on the right side, just barely to the right of the yellow line, cycling in the direction of the red arrow alongside.

The green arrows represent a group of cyclists riding in close proximity, moving in the direction of their red arrow, and most are on the right side of the yellow line. Because of their size, two riders (b) are over the yellow line and in the oncoming path of the blue cyclist.

If the (a) blue cyclist and the (b) green cyclist collide, what kind of liability or responsibility is assumed by both parties? Should the blue cyclist move over to his/her right to avoid the green cyclist, if possible? And what if the blue cyclist cannot move over to the right, maybe because of a runner or a piece of tree debris in his/her oncoming path. Or if the blue cyclist did not see the green cyclist in time?

If the blue cyclist and the green cyclists collide as pictured, can the green cyclist (b) claim that the blue cyclist was at fault for not moving over? Or can the blue cyclist simply claim that he/she was riding on his/her side of the path, and was struck head-on by an out-of-control cyclist?

And would it seem either party could/should pursue some kind of compensation, considering the possibility that work could be missed due to injury, with some sort of financial hardship being assumed as a result of the collision?

We often claim to be treated equally as automobiles on the road, and this scenario puzzles me. I can't help but think that the blue cyclist is the victim of another driver's negligence, and would appreciate your perspective.
Attached Images


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## grrrah (Jul 22, 2005)

I'm not familiar with the parkway, but green is at fault for crossing the double yellow.

Per the vehicle code, the blue cyclist has the right to the entire lane.

I think blue can be liable if it can be proven that they intentionally tried to hit green after seeing them on his/her side of the yellow line (for example, we are in a beater car, and we see someone doing something illegal so we hit them intentionally).


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## 95624 (Oct 23, 2007)

I have been on some of those group rides and if the person next to you starts pushing you out, there is not a lot that you can do quickly. There are a few riders that regularly ride over the line, and they are often in small groups. I have been passed by highway patrol motorcycles, on the path for a joyride, but there is not much enforcement out there. A bike bell, with a nice sound, is the best way to communicate with the people that are unaware of your presence.


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## imjps (Feb 15, 2005)

Are you kidding me? A group ride on the American River Parkway??

Lame.

How big are these group rides?


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## RedRex (Oct 24, 2004)

95624 said:


> I have been on some of those group rides and if the person next to you starts pushing you out, there is not a lot that you can do.



sure there is. Don't ride in a dangerous, irresponsible manner.


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## RedRex (Oct 24, 2004)

imjps said:


> Are you kidding me? A group ride on the American River Parkway??
> ?


it's really crazy. It's a 5pm thing in the summer.


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## imjps (Feb 15, 2005)

RedRex said:


> it's really crazy. It's a 5pm thing in the summer.


How many riders in the pack?


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## bikenerd (Jan 22, 2004)

imjps said:


> Are you kidding me? A group ride on the American River Parkway??
> Lame.
> How big are these group rides?


A number of local teams use the ARBT for weeknight training rides. It's close & convenient. My team was one of them, but we realized how sketchy it was getting and moved our hammer sessions to the Folsom South Canal. I don't think we ever had more than 20 riders at once, but I've certainly seen bigger groups.
We've done team recovery rides on the trail at 17-18 mph and that doesn't seem to be a problem, but 20 guys going 25 mph is not a good idea. And I agree that the burden of safety definitely falls on the 'fast' group, but some people once they start hammering lose all sense of that.


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## RedRex (Oct 24, 2004)

bikenerd said:


> We've done team recovery rides on the trail at 17-18 mph and that doesn't seem to be a problem,.... And I agree that the burden of safety definitely falls on the 'fast' group, but some people once they start hammering lose all sense of that.



See heres the thing: Whether a pack is recovering at 17mph or hammering at 23mph, you're still a pack. Still taking up the entire lane, still crossing the yellow line as the pack overtakes single riders. 

I've not seen an increased level of danger with faster packs. I've seen an increased level of danger with packs in general. 

It's common sense, not entitlement.


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## RedRex (Oct 24, 2004)

Very strange.


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## grrrah (Jul 22, 2005)

haha, and I thought it was a roadway... I think the same rules aply about crossing over the line. Thats lame that the race teams would use it for training, unless its part of the cool down or something. One thing that is likely is that there probably is a 15mph speed limit on the thing. Yeah, enforcement is unlikely, but enough complaints may get an officer out there once or twice.


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## imjps (Feb 15, 2005)

bikenerd said:


> A number of local teams use the ARBT for weeknight training rides. It's close & convenient. My team was one of them, but we realized how sketchy it was getting and moved our hammer sessions to the Folsom South Canal. I don't think we ever had more than 20 riders at once, but I've certainly seen bigger groups.
> We've done team recovery rides on the trail at 17-18 mph and that doesn't seem to be a problem, but 20 guys going 25 mph is not a good idea. And I agree that the burden of safety definitely falls on the 'fast' group, but some people once they start hammering lose all sense of that.


Glad your team got wise to how sketchy it was to hammer on the ARBT, and move to FSC.

I think it would be great fun riding on the ARBT in a large pack, fast or slow. But, I know it's not the smartest thing to do. I guess that's why I can't see why people think it's ok to do it.

Just my .02.

jps


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## RedRex (Oct 24, 2004)

imjps said:


> How many riders in the pack?



Prominent Sacramento LBS....46 mile group ride on the bike trail:

http://www.teamcitysac.com/TeamCity/Training/Training.html


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## singlespeed.org (Feb 14, 2006)

I think one thing needs to be covered first - what rules this would fall under. If it falls under the vehicle traffic code, then some of the comments above (such as how the person in blue has the right to the entire lane) would probably take effect. But being a path, it may not be part of the vehicle code, so not sure how this would all work out.

That's rules. Etiquette calls for all riders to stay as far right as possible, which would also apply to the guy in blue. So unless there was some over-riding reason, the guy in blue should move over to the right (such as it would be unsafe for the blue bike to be to the right). 

Of course, etiquette also falls on the red pack and they are breaching it by doing a ride like this on a narrow, but heavily used, path.

My $0.02


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