# Did anyone here grab this?



## JohnnyChance (Dec 13, 2006)

http://cgi.ebay.com/DeRosa-Primato-...66:2|39:1|72:1205|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50

If so, congrats, and if so, youre a jerk for outbidding me (or i'm the jerk for not having a larger bike budget.)


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## zmudshark (Jan 28, 2007)

There will be others. I was watching, and tossed in a low bid a couple days ago, but couldn't justify an aggressive bid. I already have this:









And This:









And this:


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## gomango (Aug 30, 2006)

Thought about it, and tried my best to talk a riding buddy into it. Not the right time for us. 
I'm finishing up my Merckx while I'm laid up, and I already have a De Rosa waiting in Bolzano when we arrive in August. Not to mention building wheels for my wife's Primato.
By the way Zmudshark, those are really exceptional bikes you have there! Feel free to post them often!


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

If you keep posting that picture, you are going to force me to give up my Japanese fetish and buy a De Rosa....I love that bike


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## gomango (Aug 30, 2006)

Dave, you'll never regret buying a De Rosa. A Primato is a great place to start, although my first was a Professional SLX. Great riding, great looking, classy, timeless, tradition, they have it all!


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

I hear you....Honestly, I've never had a thing for Italian bikes except De Rosa...They have always appealed to me.,,,,


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## JohnnyChance (Dec 13, 2006)

I'm more of a 54cm anyway. Oh well. 



zmudshark said:


> There will be others. I was watching, and tossed in a low bid a couple days ago, but couldn't justify an aggressive bid.


I noticed your fleet when checking out the De Rosa forum, very nice.

This is my first foray into high end steel bikes. Was this price high/low/avg for a Primato of this yr/condition?

I dont need anything right away, I can wait for the right frame at a reasonable price. What other frames would be considered comparable to the Primato? Is Columbus EL the premier tubeset of this generation?


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## zmudshark (Jan 28, 2007)

JohnnyChance said:


> I'm more of a 54cm anyway. Oh well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd say the price was in the ball park for a Primato. The chrome lugs are a nice touch, though I've heard anecdotal reports that Ugo did not like chrome of his bikes. 

Toomanybikes has nearly identical one to the auction bike.

One could make an argument that EL-OS was the premier tubing of the era, and perhaps the best steel tubing made, ever. The ride quality is superb.

I consider the Primato to be the embodiment of the best design by the best builder. I'm biased, and it's just my own opinion. There are many nice bikes out there, but for my riding style, I've yet to find anything as pleasant as a De Rosa.


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## zmudshark (Jan 28, 2007)

PS--- Anyone in Toronto?
http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/bik/1232422576.html

There are a couple of what appear to be good CL deals here:
http://www.jaxed.com/cgi-bin/mash.cgi?cat=cpbike&itm=de+rosa&loc=&fil=&ys=&ye=&submit=++++go++++


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## gomango (Aug 30, 2006)

Saw that Toronto ad yesterday. LOL. I can only hope that isn't my future when my wife grows tired of my routine!


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## JohnnyChance (Dec 13, 2006)

Nashville:

http://nashville.en.craigslist.org/bik/1231281516.html


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## JohnnyChance (Dec 13, 2006)

zmudshark said:


> I'd say the price was in the ball park for a Primato. The chrome lugs are a nice touch, though I've heard anecdotal reports that Ugo did not like chrome of his bikes.
> 
> Toomanybikes has nearly identical one to the auction bike.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I'm biased too. :thumbsup: 

I would prefer a Primato, but if a MXL or something else with MAX or EL/EL-OS tubing in my size were to pop up...how could I say no?


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## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

Dave Hickey said:


> I hear you....Honestly, I've never had a thing for Italian bikes except De Rosa...They have always appealed to me.,,,,


 Zmud is your size, Dave. When he is in a good mood (twice since I have known him), he is very generous. I bought a pair of nice sandals that he was selling on EBAY as I was leaving AZ. WHen I returned, the sandals were there in my garage, with a second set of sandals and 2 cd's of music-that's pretty typical. Actually, I am not sure if he is generous or just desperate for friends.

Either way, ask him to give you one, you never know, do you feel lucky?

b21


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2009)

Whoever the seller of that bike is, he's nuts if he thinks TSX is even in the same ballpark as EL.

TSX, in my opinion, simply has too damn much of the helical reinforcement and longer buts and the result is a bike that in my experience will rattle your filling loose.

Now Genius on the other hand ................


edit - oh yeah, I like this bike!!


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## zmudshark (Jan 28, 2007)

Okay, a few clarifications.

1) I ride slightly larger than Dave Hickey, I think, but if he ever finds himself stuck in DTW or PHX, and can fit a 54-55, he's welcome to ride any of my bikes. That goes even though I'm retired Brown and I believe he's present day Purple. We can swap horror stories.

2) Barry1021 found about 5Gb of MP3's in his garage, not two CD's,and he gave me an entire Chorus/Centaur grouppo in return. Talk about a good trade(sucker) and desperate for friends. I turned him in to the RIAA.

3)Toomanybikes is spot on, as usual. EL-OS is way above TSX, which was an 'improvement' on SLX, which was just fine to begin with.

EL-OS is not the same steel formula

4) Genius is to EL-OS as TSX is to SLX. Same steel, dif reinforcements (correct me if I'm wrong, I often am), but they did the reinforcements differentially in the tubing, so it actually works.

5) You can't go wrong with either Genius or EL-OS, they had it dialed in pretty nicely at that point. Pinnacle of Nivachrom steel.

6) Neither barry1021 or toomanybikes can catch me, and I'm older than both of them.

That is all.


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## gomango (Aug 30, 2006)

Couple of thoughts about TSX tubing. I recently completed building a NOS Merckx TSX Century. What a great bike! I completed two 75 mile rides, back to back. The first day out I had some fit issues to work on and about half way through I adjusted the saddle tilt. I am glad I did as this was the beginning of a four mile spin down into the St. Croix Valley in Minnesota. Here's what I liked about the bike geometry and the tubing. This baby feels better the faster you go. Most of this stretch was between 40 and 45 miles per hour. Tight, and she wants to scream. I'm in the middle of our pack and it felt good. Again, we have completed this ride many times before and I really believe the bike is as solid at speed as my De Rosa SLX. At the end of the ride that day, I felt surprisingly fresh. The next day our terrain was varied with a solid stretch (20+miles) of rollers. The bike hung in there great. I was thrilled to say the least. So while I agree that EL-OS is the next step in the Columbus food chain, I have nothing but positive things to say about the overall ride characteristics of the Merckx w/ TSX tubing. I have a little blue De Rosa Neo Primato waiting for me in Bolzano in August. It will be fun to ride it in the Dolomites and do some real comparisons.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2009)

TSX was one of the last major versions of Cyclex tubing. The same basic tubing as Aelle, Cromor, SL and SLX.

It is marginally lighter than SLX due to thinner wall diameters in the tubing.

Where SLX had the helical reinforcements in the downtube, lower portion of the seat tube and the steer tube.

TSX added reinforcements in the top tube as well, but they ran the full length of the top tube.

My experience with TSX was that is a harsher riding tubeset than SLX.

SLX and TSX are the same steel just a different serving of it.

EL and EL/OS are Nivacrom which is a much newer alloy and produces a different bike. The EL tubeset in the same size as SLX or TSX is about 250 gms lighter.

I have had many bikes in Cyclex ( SL, SLX and TSX) I have also had a number of bikes in Nivacrom.

They have all been nice, I did not care for TSX in comparison to SLX, but that's me.


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## gomango (Aug 30, 2006)

Excellent information in this thread! You guys help school folks about the basics of the Columbus steel families. Several of my riding buddies took a frame building class from a local builder last winter. He included similar basic information, but added a caveat. Consider your audience and purpose when designing a frame. He took out a twenty year old Kvale touring frame built primarily from SLX. He asserts that the ride from this frame set would be ideally suited to many of us from an "all day" ride stand point. He might be right. I am certain that on any given day there are far too many bikes sitting in garages, including mine, that go unused and unloved. The best bike then might be the one that gets used and enjoyed. If all it takes is an EL-OS Primato, so be it. I'm all for that!


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## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

gomango said:


> Excellent information in this thread! You guys help school folks about the basics of the Columbus steel families. Several of my riding buddies took a frame building class from a local builder last winter. He included similar basic information, but added a caveat. Consider your audience and purpose when designing a frame. He took out a twenty year old Kvale touring frame built primarily from SLX. He asserts that the ride from this frame set would be ideally suited to many of us from an "all day" ride stand point. He might be right. I am certain that on any given day there are far too many bikes sitting in garages, including mine, that go unused and unloved. The best bike then might be the one that gets used and enjoyed. If all it takes is an EL-OS Primato, so be it. I'm all for that!


 SLX, Genius, EL OS, any of these in a well made frame that FITS will make the owner very happy IMO. THe quality control of the Italian manufactureres was not consistent, nor in some cases do you actually know who made the frame despite the name on it. I have a higher comfort level with De Rosa and Merckx than I do with some other large producers that you are getting what's advertised. JMO

ANd nunber 6) above is ZMud's comment is absolutely wrong. If we start at the top of a hill together, I can beat him to the bottom.


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## sneyer (Jun 20, 2008)

*My 2 cents...*

As much as I love the Primato's, I've always thought that EL/OS dented a little too easy. Very seldom do you come across a Primato that doesn't have any tube damage. I agree the Genius is the better tubeset...same if not better ride quality, but a more durable tube.


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## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

sneyer said:


> As much as I love the Primato's, I've always thought that EL/OS dented a little too easy. Very seldom do you come across a Primato that doesn't have any tube damage. I agree the Genius is the better tubeset...same if not better ride quality, but a more durable tube.


well between Nickb4, zmud, toomany and me, there are at least six that are pretty sweet and dingless.......
b21


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## sneyer (Jun 20, 2008)

*Maybe I'm just bitter...*

...b/c every used on I see in my size has some damage. Don't get me wrong, these are lovely frames, but it's a tubeset that you have to take care of. 



barry1021 said:


> well between Nickb4, zmud, toomany and me, there are at least six that are pretty sweet and dingless.......
> b21


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## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

sneyer said:


> ...b/c every used on I see in my size has some damage. Don't get me wrong, these are lovely frames, but it's a tubeset that you have to take care of.


 agreed, esp relative to slx


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## boneman (Nov 26, 2001)

*Tsx*

I heartily concur on TSX. I've had a custom Marinoni and a Pinarello Gavia in TSX along with a number of other rides in SL and SLX. In short, it's a very harsh tube set. All the rides are more or less the same geometry and lugged. I ride a 50-51ctc and for that size, TXS is harsh. It is not the builder.

My ELOS and Genius rides are a completely different ballgame. My custom Chas Roberts single speed is in custom drawn Nivachrome. It's simply a different tubeset. I will never buy another TSX frame, ever. I'm still looking for my De Rosa in Genius, Neuron or ELOS. At the rate I'm going, it ain't gonna happen in my lifetime. Living offshore hasn't help the process although a kind RBR individual has volunteered to warehouse for me in my absence. Maybe there's hope after all.



toomanybikes said:


> TSX was one of the last major versions of Cyclex tubing. The same basic tubing as Aelle, Cromor, SL and SLX.
> 
> It is marginally lighter than SLX due to thinner wall diameters in the tubing.
> 
> ...


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## gomango (Aug 30, 2006)

boneman said:


> I heartily concur on TSX. I've had a custom Marinoni and a Pinarello Gavia in TSX along with a number of other rides in SL and SLX. In short, it's a very harsh tube set. All the rides are more or less the same geometry and lugged. I ride a 50-51ctc and for that size, TXS is harsh. It is not the builder.
> 
> My ELOS and Genius rides are a completely different ballgame. My custom Chas Roberts single speed is in custom drawn Nivachrome. It's simply a different tubeset. I will never buy another TSX frame, ever. I'm still looking for my De Rosa in Genius, Neuron or ELOS. At the rate I'm going, it ain't gonna happen in my lifetime. Living offshore hasn't help the process although a kind RBR individual has volunteered to warehouse for me in my absence. Maybe there's hope after all.


Hi Boneman- Love to see your bikes! Disagree on TSX though. I've got a 1991 TSX Century Merckx. It's a 57cm, and the bike absolutely sings at speed. The bike was built to be ridden hard, and I have in its short time with me. I've only had the bike on two 75 milers, so limited experience so far. I am riding with a group that is doing a 325 mile ride starting next week. Its our annual credit card ride to the BWCA and our family cabin! I'll have a pretty firm handle on this little rocket by the end of this trip. Last year I road my Colnago Master Extra Light, so that will be an additional reference point. Again, the bike seems suitable in most regards, and fairly comparable (ride quality) to my De Rosa Professional SLX.


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## boneman (Nov 26, 2001)

*Fair point*

I failed to qualify my point although I did point out my sizing and there are people who like the TSX ride but so far, no one in the under 54 size. BTW, I also ride a Master Olympic, one could argue a heavier version of the current Master Light and I don't find any issues with the ride as I do with the TSX frames I've owned. Well, it's all individual taste and that's fine too.




gomango said:


> Hi Boneman- Love to see your bikes! Disagree on TSX though. I've got a 1991 TSX Century Merckx. It's a 57cm, and the bike absolutely sings at speed. The bike was built to be ridden hard, and I have in its short time with me. I've only had the bike on two 75 milers, so limited experience so far. I am riding with a group that is doing a 325 mile ride starting next week. Its our annual credit card ride to the BWCA and our family cabin! I'll have a pretty firm handle on this little rocket by the end of this trip. Last year I road my Colnago Master Extra Light, so that will be an additional reference point. Again, the bike seems suitable in most regards, and fairly comparable (ride quality) to my De Rosa Professional SLX.


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