# First bike



## Weizilla (Jun 16, 2011)

I'm going to be getting my first real bike but I'm pretty unsure about what to get. 

I'll mainly be using it for fitness and a triathlon but I'm thinking maybe some biking in cold weather too. I live in Chicago so no hills here but I wouldn't mind taking nice long leisurely rides. I haven't bike at all since I was a kid, much less road bike so I'm completely not used to the road bike position and seats. Therefore, at the point, I'm more about the comfort and distance than speed and performance. I'm in fairly decent shape and weigh 155 lb at 5'5". I've been told that I have a long torso.

My budget is $1200-$1300 as I'm hoping to stay around $1500 after other things like petals, shorts, shoes and helmet. I know that I want either Shimano 105 or SRAM Apex parts, with more of a preference on SRAM. 

I'm still looking at bikes but these stick out in my mind.
Specialized Secteur Elite Apex (haven't tested)
Jamis Ventura Race

I tested a Bianchi Nirone 7 but it seems too racy for me. I tested a Giant 1.5 too but for some reason, it just didn't stick in my mind. 

From the bikes that I've tested, there was only a carbon bike from Specialized that felt really smooth, everything else felt kind of bumpy. However, it could just be the carbon material talking. I want to test the Secteur but my LBS is out of my side and has been saying they'll get it in for the last 2 weeks without results. 

After going to a custom LBS, the owner said I should take a look at cyclo cross bikes. When he talked about how versatile they are (and from what I read on this forum after), I was hooked. He's building me a bike quote tomorrow with a Surly Cross Check frame (steel), SRAM Apex parts and Fulcrum Racing 5 tires for around $1400. The only thing is, there's only 4 of the frames left until a new shipment at the end of August so if I hesitate too long, I'd have to wait until the end of August or get a different bike. Plus for $1400, it seems like if I spend a little more, I could get a full carbon race bike. 

I really want to get a bike soon as I'm sick of waiting but I also don't want to rush. Is the Surly Crossfit bike a good deal? Should I research more cyclo bikes or go back to race bikes? I've only done research on road bikes so I don't know anything about cyclo bikes. I could also wait for the 2012 Specialized bikes too or look at their cyclo lineup. So many options


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## jpaschal01 (Jul 20, 2011)

I just got a Felt Z85. The felt Z series is kinda what you have described, except it is a road bike; not a cyclocross bike. The Z line from Felt has a little more upright riding position, geared towards longer rides; less aggressive rides. I am loving mine. It is also right in the price range you are looking at and has full Shimano 105 set-up.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Not to be critical, but there are two things I don't understand. First, if your terrain is primarily flat, why are you leaning toward Apex. Its claim to fame is that the gearing is wide, accommodating hilly terrain. The downside is that there are gaps in the gearing, which can be annoying to riders that like to keep a rhythm (or cadence). Seems to me that you'll be getting the disadvantages without reaping the benefits of the wider gearing. 

Second, if your intended uses are fitness and tri, assuming you'll be riding on paved roads, I don't see the need for a CX bike. Your emphasis on comfort and distance (as opposed to speed/ performance) can easily be attained with bikes like the Spec Secteur, Giant Defy, Felt Z series, and many other so called 'endurance' bikes.

If I'm on track here, my suggestion is to visit a few shops, discuss you intended uses and price range, and test ride some endurance (or relaxed geo) bikes like those listed above.


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## flatsix911 (Jun 28, 2009)

Take a look online for the best value ... no tax or shipping :thumbsup:

*2011 Motobecane Century Comp $1195*
Full Carbon Frame, SRAM Apex, Ritchey Bar, Stem, FSA Carbon Post

https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/images/cent_comp_apex_xi_600.jpg


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

flatsix911 said:


> Take a look online for the best value ... no tax or shipping :thumbsup:


Best value? That's arguable, IMHO. Along with no tax or no shipping, you get no sizing or fit assistance and a number of potential hidden costs in assembly, tuning and fit. And if you guess wrong on sizing, you DO pay _return_ shipping (or keep an ill fitting bike).


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## Weizilla (Jun 16, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> Not to be critical, but there are two things I don't understand. First, if your terrain is primarily flat, why are you leaning toward Apex. Its claim to fame is that the gearing is wide, accommodating hilly terrain. The downside is that there are gaps in the gearing, which can be annoying to riders that like to keep a rhythm (or cadence). Seems to me that you'll be getting the disadvantages without reaping the benefits of the wider gearing.
> 
> Second, if your intended uses are fitness and tri, assuming you'll be riding on paved roads, I don't see the need for a CX bike. Your emphasis on comfort and distance (as opposed to speed/ performance) can easily be attained with bikes like the Spec Secteur, Giant Defy, Felt Z series, and many other so called 'endurance' bikes.
> 
> If I'm on track here, my suggestion is to visit a few shops, discuss you intended uses and price range, and test ride some endurance (or relaxed geo) bikes like those listed above.


I'm leaning towards the Apex because I like the clicky shifters more than the 105s. I kind of assumed the gearings is similar enough to the 105s. 

That's what I was thinking at first. But the LBS guy said with a CX bike, you can do so much more with the frame such as throwing bigger tires to ride in the winter, etc. Right now, I'm thinking fitness and tri but the thing is, since I don't ride bikes now, I don't really know if I'll want to use this bike for other things in the future. I guess I'm thinking a CX bike would help hedge against any random ideas.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Weizilla said:


> I'm leaning towards the Apex because I like the clicky shifters more than the 105s. I kind of assumed the gearings is similar enough to the 105s.
> 
> That's what I was thinking at first. But the LBS guy said with a CX bike, you can do so much more with the frame such as throwing bigger tires to ride in the winter, etc. Right now, I'm thinking fitness and tri but the thing is, since I don't ride bikes now, I don't really know if I'll want to use this bike for other things in the future. I guess I'm thinking a CX bike would help hedge against any random ideas.


Don't get me wrong, I like CX bikes and they do expand potential uses somewhat, but (unless you're a braver rider than I) I don't see you out on snowy, icy roads during Chicago winters, and even CX bikes have their limits on tires size. You can probably run 28's on a bike like the Secteur (double check that with your LBS, if interested), but yes, I can't argue that a CX bike holds the edge on gravel/ salted roads. You just have to decide if that's the type of bike you also want to ride when conditions improve. Swapping tires to better match those conditions is one option.

Re: SRAM versus Shimano, it's obviously your money and your call on the components, but IMO choosing the shifting method over what could be less than optimal gearing equates to questionable criteria. Then again, I'm sure if the OE gearing didn't suite you it could be changed, albeit at an added cost.


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## Weizilla (Jun 16, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> Don't get me wrong, I like CX bikes and they do expand potential uses somewhat, but (unless you're a braver rider than I) I don't see you out on snowy, icy roads during Chicago winters, and even CX bikes have their limits on tires size. You can probably run 28's on a bike like the Secteur (double check that with your LBS, if interested), but yes, I can't argue that a CX bike holds the edge on gravel/ salted roads. You just have to decide if that's the type of bike you also want to ride when conditions improve. Swapping tires to better match those conditions is one option.
> 
> Re: SRAM versus Shimano, it's obviously your money and your call on the components, but IMO choosing the shifting method over what could be less than optimal gearing equates to questionable criteria. Then again, I'm sure if the OE gearing didn't suite you it could be changed, albeit at an added cost.


Hmmm good point. I'll look at the Secteur and road bikes again. I also like the mount points of the Surly Cross Check but then again, who knows if I would ever use them. 

When I did the research, there was mentioning of gearings but it was all over my head. The only thing I kind of understood was the compact instead of triple. But I mainly just picked up that a lot of people said SRAM and Shimano were similar enough to where it came down to personal preference. However, I'll take a look at them again as now I'm leaning towards the 105s because of the gearings.


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## Weizilla (Jun 16, 2011)

I looked on SRAM's website and they have different cassettes. Obviously, if I get a complete bike, I would get whatever it comes with at first but the CX bike is a custom bike (and the shop seems happy to customize builds) so wouldn't the gearing be similar or same if I get them to swap out the cassette?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Weizilla said:


> Hmmm good point. I'll look at the Secteur and road bikes again. I also like the mount points of the Surly Cross Check but then again, who knows if I would ever use them.


Right. This is why I always say the two main criteria for choosing a bike are intended uses and fit. Even if those uses extend to two or three (or more) areas, pinning down primary use(s) will help in determining which bike is best (as in, makes the smallest compromise in what you'll do the most).


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Weizilla said:


> I looked on SRAM's website and they have different cassettes. Obviously, if I get a complete bike, I would get whatever it comes with at first but the CX bike is a custom bike (and the shop seems happy to customize builds) so wouldn't the gearing be similar or same if I get them to swap out the cassette?


Well, even when buying a complete bike most shops will swap out stems/ cassettes for free or a nominal fee. To clarify, in your initial post you mentioned the Secteur w/ Apex versus 105, so I commented on the gaps in gearing and touched on the fact that you could swap out the cassette (at an added cost). If I misled or confused, I apologize, because given your total financial investment I don't see a cassette swap as a show stopper. And yes, when having a bike built up, the shop will just calculate the cost of the cassette you both decide on into the final price.

Given your terrain, I think either group will get you the gearing you need, but keep in mind that as you narrow the gap on the Apex cogs, you also have to consider that you're running a 52/36 crankset (as opposed to the slightly lower gearing of a 50/34 compact). Again, not a show stopper, but something to discuss with your LBS/ custom builder. 

Re: your earlier comment on personal preference of SRAM and Shimano, I generally agree, although in the case of Apex versus 105, I think 105 holds the edge on refinement. As always, YMMV.


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## Weizilla (Jun 16, 2011)

I just learned about cyclocross racing (no idea that's what these bikes were designed for) and they look really fun. I guess if I ever want to do one of those, even if I bike road most of the time, its better to start with a cyclo bike?


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## RoadChaser (Jul 29, 2011)

i love my F5, it's a perfect fit for me


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## Zombie John (Jul 25, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> Given your terrain, I think either group will get you the gearing you need, but keep in mind that as you narrow the gap on the Apex cogs, you also have to consider that you're running a 52/36 crankset (as opposed to the slightly lower gearing of a 50/34 compact). Again, not a show stopper, but something to discuss with your LBS/ custom builder.


Maybe I read this wrong but the Secteur has the 50/34 crankset, S150.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Zombie John said:


> Maybe I read this wrong but the Secteur has the 50/34 crankset, S150.


Correct, and Apex is 52/36. My point was that the OP should not ignore front gearing when deciding what might work best at the rear, so I noted the differences because both (obviously) matter.


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## Zombie John (Jul 25, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> Correct, and Apex is 52/36. My point was that the OP should not ignore front gearing when deciding what might work best at the rear, so I noted the differences because both (obviously) matter.


Ah, okay. 

You can get an Apex crank in three different variations, though, just fyi -- 52/36, 50/34, and 48/34.

http://www.sram.com/sram/road/products/sram-apex-crankset

I guess that's how I got confused. But yes, very true about considering the front gearing.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Weizilla said:


> I just learned about cyclocross racing (no idea that's what these bikes were designed for) and they look really fun. I guess if I ever want to do one of those, even if I bike road most of the time, its better to start with a cyclo bike?


Why not test ride a couple of CX bikes along with road bikes. That way, you can decide if you have a preference for one over the other. Better to know upfront than to invest in a CX build before test riding any.

But to answer your question, yes. IMO if you were to get into CX racing, it would be best to have a CX bike, even if you used it on the road as well.


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## Weizilla (Jun 16, 2011)

Custom LBS gave me a quote: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=3486941#post3486941
What do you think? Definitely going to try other cx bikes but it seems to be the cheapest with 105/apex.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Weizilla said:


> Custom LBS gave me a quote: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=3486941#post3486941
> What do you think? Definitely going to try other cx bikes but it seems to be the cheapest with 105/apex.


I think Jetmugg makes some good points. The gearing will suite you on the road, but it'll likely have to be changed for CX, and while the builders prices are fair (IMO), if you have no specific need for a specific build, price-wise you might do better with a complete bike.

One example is the Spec Tricross. I know you prefer SRAM, but the Tricross w/ Tiagra has an alu/ CF fork (as opposed to the Surly's 2.2 lb. steel fork) and has gearing more appropriate for your intended uses. Same goes for the OE tires. That's as far as I got on your bike list, so some others may offer advantages as well. 

Not to complicate things for you, but I'd add the Jamis Nova Race to the list.
http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/thebikes/road/nova/11_novarace.html

I know you're focused on buying from an LBS for sizing/ fit assistance (smart move, IMO), but even considering those services, I suggest test riding bikes of interest before commiting to a purchase. 'On paper' specs and test rides don't always jive quite the way we'd expect them to.


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## Weizilla (Jun 16, 2011)

The Jamis bike shop by me won't get the Nova bikes in until next week but that's definitely on my list. 

I just test rode a 2011 Specialized Tricross Sport, Cruz Elite (i think) and 2012 Surly Cross Check. The Surly definitely felt the smoothest of all of them but the terrible stock seat dampened the comfort. The Tricross wasn't as smooth but only by a little bit. However, I could tell it was lighter and more twitchy (or responsive?) than the Surly, which felt a little sluggish, esp starting off and turning. The Cruz was the bumpiest of them all so I'm going to exclude that from my list. All of the bikes had cross tires instead of road tires so that's one thing that I forgot to have the LBS change for my test. 

For the Cross Check, I really hated the bar-end shifters so I'm definitely upgrading that. The sizing will be a little weird as I rode a 50 with which they said was a little too big for me. However, the next size down is a 46 which unfortunately, they didn't have any. 

The Cross Check and Tricross ended up being about the same in price because the Tricross has a $100 discount since it's the 2011 model.

$1150 stock
$1457 with Apex shifter/derailer upgrade
$1632 full Apex upgrade

The LBS also said the 2012 Tricross will be coming in soon (quoted early august) and that it's cheaper than the 2011 model by $50 so waiting for that is another possibility.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Weizilla said:


> The Cross Check and Tricross ended up being about the same in price because the Tricross has a $100 discount since it's the 2011 model.
> 
> $1150 stock
> $1457 with Apex shifter/derailer upgrade
> ...


Just a FYI, but the 2012 Tricross is on the Specialized website (see below). You may want to compare specs to the 2011 model, because it's not uncommon fo manufacturers to despec newer models to keep price increases in check. That given, it may be to your advantage to go with the 2011 model (IF you ultimately decide to go with the Tricross). 
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCMain.jsp?scid=1099


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## Weizilla (Jun 16, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> Just a FYI, but the 2012 Tricross is on the Specialized website (see below). You may want to compare specs to the 2011 model, because it's not uncommon fo manufacturers to despec newer models to keep price increases in check. That given, it may be to your advantage to go with the 2011 model (IF you ultimately decide to go with the Tricross).
> http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCMain.jsp?scid=1099


I don't know if it's common but at this LBS, if the newer model has lower drive train specs, it would actually work to my advantage. A component upgrade is a fixed price on top of the stock price, not the difference in price between the stock components and the upgrade components. However, I totally get what you're saying and will definitely confirm the changes tomorrow. Plus I don't see the 2012 Tricross Sport on the Specialized website.


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## Weizilla (Jun 16, 2011)

Just had a great idea! The plain Tricross is ~$200 cheaper than the Tricross Sport. If what my LBS said holds true for all their upgrades, then it would make way more sense for me to buy the entry level Tricross and upgrade that to full Apex instead. From the specs on the Specialized website, it seems like most things outside of the drive train are the same and since I'm upgrading the whole drive train, it wouldn't even matter. The only other diff I could see is the seat post which shouldn't be that much. Outside of my LBS having their own customizations, this seems like a better deal to me. For the 2012, the plain Tricross has alum fork instead of carbon so it won't work as well. :thumbsup:


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## UtahBloke (Aug 3, 2011)

so many brands, this is all too confusing!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Weizilla said:


> I don't know if it's common but at this LBS, if the newer model has lower drive train specs, it would actually work to my advantage. A component upgrade is a fixed price on top of the stock price, not the difference in price between the stock components and the upgrade components. However, I totally get what you're saying and will definitely confirm the changes tomorrow. Plus *I don't see the 2012 Tricross Sport on the Specialized website*.


They may not have that model in their 2012 lineup or it's not a part of their early release. Your LBS should have that info on their dealer website.

You mentioned sizing and fit earlier... during these test rides, try to be aware of the fit and feel of the bikes, because getting the fit right is going to make a big impact on your cycling experience, especially if you have an eye towards competing. Riding in discomfort doesn't promote efficiency.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Weizilla said:


> For the 2012, the plain Tricross has alum fork instead of carbon so it won't work as well. :thumbsup:


Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but IMO a CF fork has a distinct advantage over an alu fork.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

UtahBloke said:


> so many brands, this is all too confusing!


Visits to LBS's to discuss intended uses, etc., then test ride some bikes sorts all that out... _sometimes_.


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## Weizilla (Jun 16, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but IMO a CF fork has a distinct advantage over an alu fork.


Correct, a carbon fiber fork is better than aluminum. I was talking about my plan to upgrade the lowest level bike instead of a mid level bike to save money because the only difference between them is the stock drive drain which won't matter anyways. In 2011, the plain and Sport Tricross have carbon forks but in 2012, the plain Tricross has an alum fork. So assuming the 2012 Sport version has a carbon fork, my plan won't work. However, since my LBS said the 2012 Sport is cheaper, perhaps that has an alum fork as well. 



PJ352 said:


> Visits to LBS's to discuss intended uses, etc., then test ride some bikes sorts all that out... _sometimes_.


Don't worry. At first you'll be confused, but then the names will start to sound familiar. As you test more and more bikes, they'll all blend together and when you've sorted everything out again, you'll be out a few grand instead :biggrin5:


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## brittonal (Jul 18, 2011)

I went with a 2011 Trek 2.3. I haven't picked it up yet but I hope I went with the right choice.


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## flatsix911 (Jun 28, 2009)

Weizilla said:


> Correct, a carbon fiber fork is better than aluminum. I was talking about my plan to upgrade the lowest level bike instead of a mid level bike to save money because the only difference between them is the stock drive drain which won't matter anyways. In 2011, the plain and Sport Tricross have carbon forks but in 2012, the plain Tricross has an alum fork. So assuming the 2012 Sport version has a carbon fork, my plan won't work. However, since my LBS said the 2012 Sport is cheaper, perhaps that has an alum fork as well.
> 
> Don't worry. At first you'll be confused, but then the names will start to sound familiar. As you test more and more bikes, they'll all blend together and when you've sorted everything out again, you'll be out a few grand instead :biggrin5:


Cross post from this thread ... https://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=257556

Way better deals on these complete bikes ... :thumbsup:


Carbon Fiber Cross Fork, 
FSA External Bearing Crank, 
Aluminum Frame+Rear Rack mounts, 
Custom Bar/Stem/Post, Mavic Wheels
*SRAM Rival, 20 Speed Fantom Cross PRO $999*
https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fantom_cross_pro_rival.htm









Vari-Butted Titanium 3/2.5 Frame
Carbon Fiber Cross Fork, FSA Crank
Disc Brake Tabs + Rear Rack mounts
Ritchey Bar, Stem, Disc-Ready Wheels
*SRAM Rival, 20 Speed Fantom Cross PRO Ti $1,695 *
https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fantom_cross_pro_ti_xi.htm


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## Weizilla (Jun 16, 2011)

I ended up with the Surly Cross Check from the custom LBS.

I went back to the LBS that had the Tricross and Cross Check and tested both of them again but this time with road tires. HUGE difference. The bumpyness of the road was more apparent and the performance difference was a lot less. The Cross Check felt a lot less sluggish than before on the cross tires.

In the end, it came down to price/availability. My plan was to take the entry level Tricross and upgrade it to SRAM Apex, ending up with a $1500 bike with full Apex. This would have been about the same price as the Cross Check from the custom LBS. Then I would just pick the bike I preferred.

However, the LBS only had the Tricross Sport available and with full Apex, that would be $1700. I could have waited for the 2012 entry level Tricross and upgrade that to $1500 but that only has an alum fork. This essentially made the custom LBS's Cross Check a better deal (in my mind) so I just went with that. 

Can't wait for the bike to come in and a big thanks to everyone's advice on this decision!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Weizilla said:


> I ended up with the Surly Cross Check from the custom LBS.


Congrats on your (soon to be) new bike!! It's tradition here to post pics, so pls do so when you get it, then... enjoy the ride!!


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## markvelo (Jul 1, 2011)

UtahBloke said:


> so many brands, this is all too confusing!


In that price range thinks about fit and components. You aren't going to get a drastic performance difference between frames under $1500,


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