# Jamaica Olympic track team



## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Am I the only one suspicious of the sudden rise of numerous Jamaican track stars with little experience?


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## dclee (Nov 16, 2004)

Prior to the last two or so years, the times in the 100 metre were getting much slower after the Balco case and a rash of drug suspensions. Running under 10 seconds was becoming rare even at many championship events. The times by the Jamaicans, as well as the number of athletes doing amazing, suggest that systematic doping is being used. Sweeping the medals in the female 100 and having 3 runners in the male 100 final is pretty unprecendented for a small island nation.

Since out of competition testing is up to individual countries to conduct, I imagine that they are using all the typical drugs - epo, hgh, test, etc. during out of competition periods and cleaning up for competition. I severly doubt Jamaica is conducting a stringent OOC testing regime - if they even have one. One of the things noted about Asafa Powell, after he burst onto the scene, was that he did not travel much to compete preferring to stay and train in Jamaica. This tatic was also used by the three greek sprinters who were suspended in the past four years, basically not running internationally at all and then hitting big events and winning.


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

Pablo said:


> Am I the only one suspicious of the sudden rise of numerous Jamaican track stars with little experience?


Part of me hopes that Usain Bolt literally shatters the 200m record (maybe under 19sec) just so that he makes it so ridiculous that someone amongst the powers that be, IOC or IAAF, takes notice and maybe just maybe does something. 
IMO even the 100m record (9.69sec) is ridiculously low. He even put on the breaks after 80m.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

MG537 said:


> Part of me hopes that Usain Bolt literally shatters the 200m record (maybe under 19sec) just so that he makes it so ridiculous that someone amongst the powers that be, IOC or IAAF, takes notice and maybe just maybe does something.
> IMO even the 100m record (9.69sec) is ridiculously low. He even put on the breaks after 80m.


Spoiler: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/21/sports/olympics/21bolt.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

MG537 said:


> Part of me hopes that Usain Bolt literally shatters the 200m record (maybe under 19sec) just so that he makes it so ridiculous that someone amongst the powers that be, IOC or IAAF, takes notice and maybe just maybe does something.
> IMO even the 100m record (9.69sec) is ridiculously low. He even put on the breaks after 80m.


I would say a 19.3 flat is pretty close to blowing it away. It's not an obliteration of the record, but even the best sprinters in the world (well former best sprinters) didn't think he would break the 200 meter record...yet, there it is!

All the signs are there, the question is whether he will turn up a positive or not. Im sure the innocent until proven guilty will chime in soon.


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## jupiterrn (Sep 22, 2006)

Yeah they must be doping. Who ever heard of an island nation sponsoring a bobsled team. NO PROBLEM, COOL RUNNING.


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## I am The Edge (Jul 27, 2004)

Pablo said:


> Am I the only one suspicious of the sudden rise of numerous Jamaican track stars with little experience?



no you're not the only one. complete and utter bullsh*t that they are pulling off.

nobody blows the 100m world record out of the water while coasting the last 20m to which he would have been sub 9.6 if he would have ran through the finish. ridiculous.


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## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

Pablo said:


> Am I the only one suspicious of the sudden rise of numerous Jamaican track stars with little experience?


While I am suspicious, I wouldn't call it a "sudden rise". Jamaica has produced great sprinters for years. In the past, many emigrated (eg Donavan Bailey to Canada) and many more were recruited by the big American schools. What has changed is that a lot are staying home now. Jamaica has a comprehensive school system that identifies potential star sprinters and sprinting really is the national sport.

Still 9.69 while letting up in the last 10 meters and 19.30 against the wind are rather impressive.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

oarsman said:


> While I am suspicious, I wouldn't call it a "sudden rise". Jamaica has produced great sprinters for years. In the past, many emigrated (eg Donavan Bailey to Canada) and many more were recruited by the big American schools. What has changed is that a lot are staying home now. Jamaica has a comprehensive school system that identifies potential star sprinters and sprinting really is the national sport.
> 
> Still 9.69 while letting up in the last 10 meters and 19.30 against the wind are rather impressive.


Ditto on both. Jamaica didn't just come out of nowhere. Merlene Otte anybody? 6 out of 8 in the men's 100m final were from Caribbean nations (other two US) and I think all but one of the women's 100m final were from the US or Caribbean.

While I'm suspicious of Bolt, I'm probably even more suspicious of Jamaica's sweep of the women's 100m.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

jorgy said:


> While I'm suspicious of Bolt, I'm probably even more suspicious of Jamaica's sweep of the women's 100m.


That's what I was thinking of in particular. I watched the women's 100m final. I don't know much about Bolt or sprinting.


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## dclee (Nov 16, 2004)

They have always had solid sprinters - but nowhere near the depth, or more accurately domination, they are demonstrating currently. Jamaica has set up an anti-doping agency, but it does no testing! Jamaican athletes have only had to worry about in competition tests up to now - which would make doping very easy to get away with. 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympics/athletics/7476274.stm


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## lookrider (Dec 3, 2006)

Donald Quarrie was one of the best in the '70's. Maybe they're smoking less weed now than in the past, or maybe they're not.......Bolt was junior world champ at 15.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

dclee said:


> Jamaica has set up an anti-doping agency, but it does no testing! Jamaican athletes have only had to worry about in competition tests up to now - which would make doping very easy to get away with.


Good god. I'd have thought that WADA or the individual sports' governing bodies would REQUIRE nations that wanted to participate in the Olympics have out of competition tests.

I also don't understand the reluctance to give lifetime bans at least to the Olympics and World Championships. Apparently the Ukrainian heptathlete that tested positive had tested positive in 2006 and received a short ban, about which one of her (British) competitors complained loudly last year.


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## mh3 (Mar 8, 2006)

Obviously you can't rule out PED's in regard to exceptional race times, but it should also be mentioned that there was a viral gastroenteritis outbreak amongst the U.S. track athletes early in the games. Not saying they would have won, but it could explain the lack of placings by U.S. runners in some of the events they were expected to be more competetive in. Several of the U.S. runners looked really flat and lethargic in their opening heats, and that would be consitant with the reported bug.


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## Sojourner2005 (May 16, 2008)

*Again I say...the most suspicious althlete at these games is Michael Phelps*. If we are talking shattering records and superhuman feats of speed, strength and endurance. Usain Bolt has been on the radar for years and has followed a progression that showed that such a performance could be a possibility. I did raise an eyebrow however when I saw V. Campbell Brown (women's 200m) absolutely destroy a very good field. But, no one knows for sure until someone tests positive and no one has as yet-so they are clean, Michael Phelps included.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

Sojourner2005 said:


> *Usain Bolt has been on the radar for years and has followed a progression that showed that such a performance could be a possibility.*


*

Uh, so did Phelps. He's only 23 and this is his third Olympic games.*


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## Sojourner2005 (May 16, 2008)

Originally posted by jorgy:


> Uh, so did Phelps. He's only 23 and this is his third Olympic games


I agree, I wasn't arguing that Phelps came out of nowhere. I am arguing that if we are looking at performances that raise an eyebrow due to their absolutely mindblowing, record shattering results, then Michael Phelps' 8 record performances (7 WR, 1 OR) is the one that should be questioned. In one 25 minute span, he won a race, got his medal and got back in the pool again to qualify for another final. (Or visa versa, but the 25 minute recovery period is correct). Winning the 100 and the 200 to me, does not even compare to what he accomplished in the 8 days he competed. Mind you, I marvel at the accomplishments of both men.


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## TheDon (Feb 3, 2006)

Sojourner2005 said:


> Originally posted by jorgy:
> I agree, I wasn't arguing that Phelps came out of nowhere. I am arguing that if we are looking at performances that raise an eyebrow due to their absolutely mindblowing, record shattering results, then Michael Phelps' 8 record performances (7 WR, 1 OR) is the one that should be questioned. In one 25 minute span, he won a race, got his medal and got back in the pool again to qualify for another final. (Or visa versa, but the 25 minute recovery period is correct). Winning the 100 and the 200 to me, does not even compare to what he accomplished in the 8 days he competed. Mind you, I marvel at the accomplishments of both men.


Winning the 100 and 200 in WR time with one of those WR broken against the wind should raise an eyebrow. 
WR are just not broken in the 100 at the olympics and even if they are, they aren't broken with the guy quitting with 20 m left


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

how surprising would it be: 3 of the last 5 Olympic 100 meter champions have served drug suspensions. The 4th (Maurice Greene) is up to his ears in allegations.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

lookrider said:


> Donald Quarrie was one of the best in the '70's. Maybe they're smoking less weed now than in the past, or maybe they're not.......Bolt was junior world champ at 15.


 I was just thinking that maybe the performance enhancing properties of good old Mary Jane hadn't been adequately studied. All they had to do was get them to stop laughing and start running


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## Sojourner2005 (May 16, 2008)

> Winning the 100 and 200 in WR time with one of those WR broken against the wind should raise an eyebrow.
> WR are just not broken in the 100 at the olympics and even if they are, they aren't broken with the guy quitting with 20 m left


You're right. 8 golds, 7 world records, and an OR in 8 days should go unquestioned. I'm not saying that questions can't be asked about the runner, (although I refuse to render an unequivocal judgement on anyone until there is proof) but no one is going to convince me that Phelps' performance isn't the most eyebrow raising one of the Olys. And it's not just here that he gets the pass, but in the media as a whole. Questions started about Bolt before he even won a heat. I guess Phelps' being the 'golden boy' has got to be worth something doesn't it? ...besides $50million bucks...


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## serbski (Dec 2, 2002)

Interesting article at nydailynews.com by "Mr. Balco" Victor Conte.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

TheDon said:


> Winning the 100 and 200 in WR time with one of those WR broken against the wind should raise an eyebrow.
> WR are just not broken in the 100 at the olympics and even if they are, they aren't broken with the guy quitting with 20 m left


There was a whole thread over at slowtwitch about 'Bolts greater than Phelps.' If we're going to point fingers based on the audaciousness of the performances at least some would argue (like you seemed to suggest but Sojourner2005 seems to reject) that what Bolt did was more monumental than Phelps. Ergo, Bolt deserves a great deal of scrutiny.

The utter absence of offseason out of competition testing in the Caribbean is a big red flag.


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## tron (Jul 18, 2004)

The day before Bolt broke the 200m I was hearing commentators say that Johnson's record was virtually unbeatable. Bolt breaking the 100 and 200 is like Basso's alien performance and this years KOM in the Giro. Seems to good to not be doped.


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## TheDon (Feb 3, 2006)

Sojourner2005 said:


> You're right. 8 golds, 7 world records, and an OR in 8 days should go unquestioned. I'm not saying that questions can't be asked about the runner, (although I refuse to render an unequivocal judgement on anyone until there is proof) but no one is going to convince me that Phelps' performance isn't the most eyebrow raising one of the Olys. And it's not just here that he gets the pass, but in the media as a whole. Questions started about Bolt before he even won a heat. I guess Phelps' being the 'golden boy' has got to be worth something doesn't it? ...besides $50million bucks...


Phelps would be as suspicious if it was his 5th time swimming some of those events. If you knew anything about running you would realize how amazing bolt really was.


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## steel515 (Sep 6, 2004)

so did Bolt compete internationally this season? I believe they make lots money racing in europe? were his times the best?


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## Sojourner2005 (May 16, 2008)

The Don:


> Phelps would be as suspicious if it was his 5th time swimming some of those events. If you knew anything about running you would realize how amazing bolt really was.


First what you said makes no sense, or maybe I don't understand, what 'if this was his 5th time competing' is meant to imply. Secondly, you have no idea if I know anything about running, no idea it all. For all you know I could be Marion Jones posting from the hoose-gow. So please,come with a better argument than that. Thirdly, I have never said that Bolt's performance wasn't amazing. In fact I said in an earlier post that I marvel at both men's achievements. Obviously what Bolt did at the Olympics is amazing. BUT, it is no more amazing than Phelps' unquestioned 'all-natural' performance. Hence, the 3 consecutive SI covers, 24-7 news coverage and an unending line of businesses lining up to make him a rich, rich man, all due to his 'accomplishment'.


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## mh3 (Mar 8, 2006)

steel515 said:


> so did Bolt compete internationally this season? I believe they make lots money racing in europe? were his times the best?


He's competed in several international events over the last few years. 

 Major results back to 2005 . Click the individual events for times and who else was competing in the same event.


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## TheDon (Feb 3, 2006)

Sojourner2005 said:


> The Don:
> First what you said makes no sense, or maybe I don't understand, what 'if this was his 5th time competing' is meant to imply. Secondly, you have no idea if I know anything about running, no idea it all. For all you know I could be Marion Jones posting from the hoose-gow. So please,come with a better argument than that. Thirdly, I have never said that Bolt's performance wasn't amazing. In fact I said in an earlier post that I marvel at both men's achievements. Obviously what Bolt did at the Olympics is amazing. BUT, it is no more amazing than Phelps' unquestioned 'all-natural' performance. Hence, the 3 consecutive SI covers, 24-7 news coverage and an unending line of businesses lining up to make him a rich, rich man, all due to his 'accomplishment'.



That was bolt's fifth 100 m competition. He doesn't race the 100, he just picked it up this year.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Looks like the Jamaican track team wasn't all clean....Opps!

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/more/09/02/jamaican.track/index.html

Several look to have received HGH among other things, makes you wonder who else on the team received a little extra help along the way?


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

Shocking! I was lambasted for suggesting Doped Jamaicans on another thread. Jamaica is a tiny fraction of the size of the US, so even if they did "concentrate" on raising sprinters, the shear numbers are way out of wack. Nobody mentioned that the times of both Usain and several of the women came down in some cases by as much as .5 to 1.0 seconds in a year or two. Track at Beijing will go down as a complete farce. Track is more Doped than cycling and Jamaica essentially doesnt test. Hmm


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

Would you be suspicious if they were American?


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## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

sir duke said:


> Would you be suspicious if they were American?


i would be even more suspicious.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

sir duke said:


> Would you be suspicious if they were American?


I'm suspicious of the American swim team's performance- way, way, way too good to be true (as were most of the other swim teams, too). Either we witnessed a true miracle of talent converging at once place at one time in one sport, a once in the cosmos event, or the chemists are yet again a step ahead of the chemical detectors. I'd like to say it was the former. The cynic in me says it's almost certainly the later.


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## iamnotfilip (Jul 9, 2007)

Also did anyone see the 4x100 men's relay? Jamaicans looked like they had a 30 meter gap on the field when they crossed the line.

It truly was extraordinary.


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## scottgo (Jun 8, 2006)

I'm more suspicious of the track performances then the swimming. You have to take into account the advantage that the new swimsuits give. World records were being broken by swimmers from several different teams and if you look back at the recent results you'll see that records have been falling since speedo introduced the new technology. I find it much more suspicious that the Jamaican team dominated all other nations in the absence of any obvious explanation for the improvement


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*I have a couple friends who are pretty serious trackies*

they said"no one talkes half a second off their 100m PR without help"

they said it about Flo=Jo a decade plus ago, they are saying it now


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

scottgo said:


> I'm more suspicious of the track performances then the swimming. You have to take into account the advantage that the new swimsuits give. World records were being broken by swimmers from several different teams and if you look back at the recent results you'll see that records have been falling since speedo introduced the new technology. I find it much more suspicious that the Jamaican team dominated all other nations in the absence of any obvious explanation for the improvement


Maybe, but the hydro suits have been around for years, so I'm still a little suspicious.


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