# Disc Brake Danger in the Peloton



## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

> My shoe was cut to pieces. That’s definitely a disc brake that has done that.
> 
> It’s gone straight through the shoe into my foot. It’s lucky that’s not my leg to be honest. If anything I’ve come off lucky there, if that’d been my leg it would have cut straight through it, for sure. You’ve seen my shoe – it’s gone straight through that.
> 
> ...


Doull claims Kittel's 'lethal' disc brake bike almost caused serious injury | Cyclingnews.com


I'm sure this was another chainring though right?

Nothing to see here.


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## 202cycle (Sep 13, 2011)

My question is, How do you get your left foot into a turning brake rotor?


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

In a crash.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

That's definitely not good if it happened as described (and I can't see why he would lie about it). This one might force the UCI's and manfacturers' hands. I like disc brake technology personally, but they should do whatever they need to to make it safe for races before allowing them to be used there. The one question I keep having though is why haven't we seen anything like this in cyclocross or XCO MTB racing, where crashes and pileups are just as prevalent (if not more so)??? It just seems weird for it to suddenly start happening in road racing, but nowhere else.


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## Cartoscro (Sep 10, 2012)

Rashadabd said:


> That's definitely not good if it happened as described (and I can't see why he would lie about it). This one might force the UCI's and manfacturers' hands. I like disc brake technology personally, but they should do whatever they need to to make it safe for races before allowing them to be used there. The one question I keep having though is why haven't we seen anything like this in cyclocross or XCO MTB racing, where crashes and pileups are just as prevalent (if not more so). It just seems weird for it to suddenly just start happening in road racing.


If it's as easy as they make it sound in this video to be injured by sharp spinning objects, you would think all those spinning spokes and chainrings would have taken off some extremities by now. No doubt that cut happened during the crash, but I really have a hard time believing it was Kittel's disc. The brown scrape going in the same direction makes me think it was something on the ground that did it.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

I slid off the saddle and took a top tube to the giblets once. I think we need to get rid of top tubes, too...


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Rashadabd said:


> That's definitely not good if it happened as described (and I can't see why he would lie about it). This one might force the UCI's and manfacturers' hands. I like disc brake technology personally, but they should do whatever they need to to make it safe for races before allowing them to be used there. The one question I keep having though is why haven't we seen anything like this in cyclocross or XCO MTB racing, where crashes and pileups are just as prevalent (if not more so). It just seems weird for it to suddenly just start happening in road racing.


Having a field of 200 soft pedaling and not racing for 5 hours only to dash to the line with 10k to go....is a uniquely road race thing AFAIK.

Maybe if the road racers actually raced like they are paid to...pile ups would be fewer and less risky, instead of the wheel sucking we see day in and out. Oh, and viewership might go up as would sponsors.


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## dcorn (Sep 1, 2011)

I think it's time to simulate this situation in the lab to see if that is even possible. A rounded disc brake rotor somehow sliced a perfect cut through this guy's shoe leather? I have an old pair of shoes laying around, maybe I'll try it myself. 

Based on the other large rip in his sock which clearly wasn't caused by the brake rotor, I'm guessing he hit his foot during the crash and it messed his shoe/sock all up. 

And yes, dudes crash and get their gear messed up all the time. Now every time they crash, they are all of a sudden being injured by this one new piece of technology? Sure.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Marc said:


> Having a field of 200 soft pedaling and not racing for 5 hours only to dash to the line with 10k to go....is a uniquely road race thing AFAIK.
> 
> Maybe if the road racers actually raced like they are paid to...pile ups would be fewer and less risky, instead of the wheel sucking we see day in and out. Oh, and viewership might go up as would sponsors.


I don't see how what you described has anything to do with how disc brakes complicate the situation. They are pretty much going flat out for the entire hour in cyclocross and XCO races. They slide down muddy descents and roll down hills, crashing into each other, barriers, and the ground in the process. I have even seen racers in those two disciplines get their bikes, bodies, and/or equipment tangled up, but I haven't heard of anything like this and that just doesn't make sense to me for some reason. If it is a problem, it should be a problem everywhere in my mind. 






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaLtZhYFIhs


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)




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## 202cycle (Sep 13, 2011)

Opus51569 said:


> I slid off the saddle and took a top tube to the giblets once. I think we need to get rid of top tubes, too...


Absolutely. I've seen a rider with a three inch gash in his neck from a brake lever. Let's get rid of those too. A friend of mine had a frame break during a crash which impaled his leg. I move for banning frames from racing. Hockey player all over the world play millions of games with razor sharp blades on their feet. From time to time, one of them gets a nasty gash from one of them. I don't see anyone calling for more dull skate blades. Bicycle road racing is one of the most potentially dangerous sports out there. Disc brakes or not won't change that one bit.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Rashadabd said:


> I don't see how what you described has anything to do with how disc brakes complicate the situation. They are pretty much going flat out for the entire hour in cyclocross and XCO races. They slide down muddy descents and roll down hills, crashing into each other, barriers, and the ground in the process. I have even seen racers in those two disciplines get their bikes, bodies, and/or equipment tangled up, but I haven't heard of anything like this and that just doesn't make sense to me for some reason. If it is a problem, it should be a problem everywhere in my mind.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Smaller fields-smaller crashes, at much lower speeds. Although granted I don't follow the XC scene.


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## dcorn (Sep 1, 2011)

Rashadabd said:


> I don't see how what you described has anything to do with how disc brakes complicate the situation. They are pretty much going flat out for the entire hour in cyclocross and XCO races. They slide down muddy descents and roll down hills, crashing into each other, barriers, and the ground in the process. I have even seen racers in those two disciplines get their bikes, bodies, and/or equipment tangled up, but I haven't heard of anything like this and that just doesn't make sense to me for some reason. If it is a problem, it should be a problem everywhere in my mind.


Plus all those crazy CX guys don't get the benefit of rounded edge rotors....


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## ChuckDiesel (Apr 16, 2011)

No way this was caused by a disc, more likely something on the metal fence he plowed into.

Did disc cut Doull? Race footage suggests it didn't | VeloNews.com


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## ChuckDiesel (Apr 16, 2011)

MMsRepBike said:


> Nothing to see here.


You got that right, just another whiny roadie jumping to conclusions when all the evidence points elsewhere. In the interview, his only reasoning for blaming the disc was the cut on the shoe and that nothing else could have caused it. I can think of dozen different ways that could happen other than a disc.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

dcorn said:


> Plus all those crazy CX guys don't get the benefit of rounded edge rotors....


Because people and bikes in CX are moving at far less than a road peloton...also the rotors are spinning at a much lower speed. People hit the ground and hard in CX because they're moving slow...but you don't see 50-80kph crashes with 20+ riders in 'cross. Of course, in 'cross people tend to be wearing clothing and shoes that are more than paper-thin (as is standard in the road scene).


Presuming for the sake of argument these cuts actually were caused by disc rotors....which it is looking like they aren't.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Marc said:


> Because people and bikes in CX are moving at far less than a road peloton...also the rotors are spinning at a much lower speed. People hit the ground and hard in CX because they're moving slow...but you don't see 50-80kph crashes with 20+ riders in 'cross. Of course, in 'cross people tend to be wearing clothing and shoes that are more than paper-thin (as is standard in the road scene).
> 
> 
> Presuming for the sake of argument these cuts actually were caused by disc rotors....which it is looking like they aren't.


I am not sure I am buying the argument that there is a racing speed where disc calipers are dangerous and a racing speed where they are not. I am open to hearing more, but I am nowhere near sold on that yet. Also, don't be fooled, they get moving in both cyclocross and XCO MTB. And how about downhill and enduro, and gravel races??? Take a look at the clips above, because the pileups can be just as big as well. It seems like either they should slice stuff open in crashes or they don't. It's also interesting that neither the cx racers, the MTB racers, nor their teams have called for a disc brake ban. Is this odd to anyone else?


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## ChuckDiesel (Apr 16, 2011)

Can a disc slice through a shoe? Interesting video below. I have no doubt a disc would do damage to raw skin but I don't see them being anymore dangerous that all the other parts on a bike that can do damage.
Video: What can disc rotors actually cut? | VeloNews.com


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

ChuckDiesel said:


> No way this was caused by a disc, more likely something on the metal fence he plowed into.
> 
> Did disc cut Doull? Race footage suggests it didn't | VeloNews.com


And there you have it.


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## Cartoscro (Sep 10, 2012)

I just don't see rotors being able to cut like that. You would physically have to hold a shoe to the rotor for a while for it to cut all the way the way through like that. I mean even at 50mph, the rotor is not actually spinning fast enough to cut through leather like a hot knife through butter.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

You have to admit:

There's one guy in the bunch with discs. He locks handlebars with some other dude and they crash. The some other dude ends up with a very curious cut on his foot. Crazy coincidence at least, have to admit that. At least it's a little more curious than the last supposed disc brake injury.

Someone should photograph the barriers or whatever. Look for the knife.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

I've examined all of the evidence and have reached a conclusion.

The shoe was cut in the pool room by Professor Plum with a race barrier.










The damning piece of evidence is the rust stain on the shoe.

No, not the barrier next to the sitting Kittel that is being pointed to by some, that was too far ahead of the victim. The barrier in question hasn't been pointed out specifically, but it's there, back from the one being targeted some.

The location on the shoe, the side of the bike it was on... and the rust. It's the rust really that does it. The barriers were rusty, something on one probably had a sharp... very sharp edge, and boom! Conspiracy vs. disc brakes again... Classic.


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

The orange/brown scuff mark on his shoe looks suspiciously like the same colour as the rusty feet on the barrier that he hit...

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/02/owain-doull-marcel-kittel-disc-brake-crash-abu-dhabi/


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Ban rusty barrier legs!!!


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

ChuckDiesel said:


> Can a disc slice through a shoe? Interesting video below. I have no doubt a disc would do damage to raw skin but I don't see them being anymore dangerous that all the other parts on a bike that can do damage.
> Video: What can disc rotors actually cut? | VeloNews.com


Myth busted. We can end the hysteria.








TmB123 said:


> The orange/brown scuff mark on his shoe looks suspiciously like the same colour as the rusty feet on the barrier that he hit...
> 
> https://cyclingtips.com/2017/02/owain-doull-marcel-kittel-disc-brake-crash-abu-dhabi/
> 
> View attachment 318045


 Barrier legs have caused more injuries in the past year or two than discs will cause in the next millennia.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

tlg said:


> Barrier legs have caused more injuries in the past year or two than discs will cause in the next millennia.


100% this.... and not just barrier legs. All sorts of random things in the race path. IMO, that's the true danger to racing in the pro peloton; poorly organized and unsafe race courses. I think this crash was caused by the barriers... they were the wrong type and placed poorly. As the riders came around the bend, the rider that was farthest left was forced to move right to avoid the legs in his path and that pinched everyone, causing the pile up. If you look, the right side barriers are not in the street, the left side barriers, are in the street. why? They used legless barriers, but only in the last 50 m.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)




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## harryman (Nov 14, 2014)

With rounded discs, I think the only way you could get cut by one is via impact, these guys are so bony I can see that as a reasonable possibilty. All that force focused on a small edge could easily split skin, other parts of a bike would be equally as guilty. And burnt, I've burned myself a few times with hot rotors, it's no fun, but not life threatening. 

The worst cuts I've seen on bikes have been from untrimmed stem and axle bolts, which can be very nasty and slice like razors. The next worse are from poorly trimmed zipties.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

burgrat said:


> Ban rusty barrier legs!!!


Truthfully, this would be a good idea anyway.


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