# Bought a Dean 853 steel bike--anyone know much about them???



## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

Another Budget Buy©--and hurt frame (crushed seat tube opening).

(I have a 1" carbon fork that I hope will fit--seller was not very responsive to emails so it is a bit of a blind purchase.)

I know Dean as a titanium frame maker and for their mountain bikes--I was surprised to see this listing.

I found mention of a Dean "Carducci" frame on that defunct Bike Pro website:


> '97 Dean "Carducci" Road frame - Made of Reynolds 853 steel tubing - tradional styling with external cable routing - twin bottle braze-ons and has a pump nib on back of head tube. Comes in 6 sizes, 50cm - 52cm - 54cm- - 56cm - 58cm - 60cm Available in painted grey with pearlescent Blue or Black Chrome $ 949.99


There are a couple of sale threads on Paceline but not much chatter about the bikes themselves, and a couple of postings on other sites of pictures, but I didn't find any original catalog pages or any other information

Unless the original paint was done by Spectrum (possible) this may be a repaint.

Anyone know about these frames?


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## davcruz (Oct 9, 2007)

With the exception of hearing of them I know nothing about the brand, however that is a very nice looking frame. How easy is it going to be to repair it?


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## Gregory Taylor (Mar 29, 2002)

paredown said:


> Another Budget Buy©--and hurt frame (crushed seat tube opening).
> 
> (I have a 1" carbon fork that I hope will fit--seller was not very responsive to emails so it is a bit of a blind purchase.)
> 
> ...


Back in 2002, I owned one for about a day.

RoadBike Review's Forum Archives

I ordered the frame (baby blue) and build kit (Campy 10 speed, a mix of Record and Chorus) from Dean, built it up, and got hit by a car on the very first ride. Yours looks a LOT like my old one - especially the aero shaped down tube, so I suspect that they may be sisters. Mine was NOT a Carducci, and for some reason I seeme to remember that the Carducci was all round-tube. 

The bike was pretty nice. I seem to remember the frame was built from Columbus Ultrafoco tubing and painted by Spectrum from new. Mine, I think, was upgraded to carbon seat stays (Columbus Carve), but I won't swear to it. I also seem to remember that the fork was inch and an eighth. It was a Reynolds, with a carbon steerer. 

[EDIT: I seem to remember that there was a choice between Foco and Ultrafoco on the tubing. If there was, I suspect that I went Foco because of cost and the fact that I am heavier than the waifs that ride Ultrafoco bikes...]

Dean did steel bikes for only a short bit. They spun it off into another brand - Ionic - and then I think it disappeared. 

Oh, I took the insurance money from the accident and bought a Dean ti Frame, which I still own. The guys at Dean, hearing my tale of woe, gave me a break on the price. It is a GREAT bike. My old frame was sent back to Dean, where I understand it went up on the shop wall for a while. And I got a good story out of it, which was eventually published in an anthlogy of cycling stories called "Traffic Life" - a quirky little book that has completely fallen through the cracks even though it contains stories by noted Sci Fi writers Ray Bradbury and Harlan Ellison and drawings (Car Toons) by Andy Singer. 

Traffic Life - pages 14, 15:Greg Taylor: Touched by an Angel? Nope---Whacked by a Hatchback (1)


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

Gregory Taylor said:


> Back in 2002, I owned one for about a day.
> 
> RoadBike Review's Forum Archives
> 
> ...


Thanks Greg--and the story is an absolute treat. Didn't know that you were published, although given the quality of some of the stories you have posted over the years, I am not surprised.

The listing advertised it as 853--but your thread spoke of Foco/UltraFoco--so unless there is a sticker that I can't see on the pictures, I suppose it could be either. The Paceline ones were listed as 853 FWIW. Not that I care too much about what tubing it is...


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

davcruz said:


> ...How easy is it going to be to repair it?


Ah, the hard question. 

There is a technique that does not involve large hammers, so I will try that first--and if that doesn't work, you can sometimes use a shaped dowel from the top. The important thing is to go slow so that you do not crack the tube.

I'll post pictures when I get the frame and start work.


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## Gregory Taylor (Mar 29, 2002)

Well, who knows what it is at this point! If you are curious, you could call Dean Bikes or send them an email and give them the serial number - I'll bet they will have a record of what tubing the bike was built with. 

I bet that you can fix the seat tube fairly easily. The frame most likely has a separate seat tube collar, which should make things a tad simpler. The paint might take a hit, however. If it is air hardened Reynolds, I wouldn't put a torch on it. Instead, might try using an undersized seat post to tease open the seat tube, and then slide in a correct size seat post - a nice cheap steel or aluminum one filled with sand and plugged - as a dolly for some very light hammer work. Or you probably have an even better idea on how to do it....


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Hang on kids...... A steel jewelers mandrel (for sizing rings) might just be the tool you need. What is theid of the tube? (pm me.... I might be able to help you out here) A size 15 ring is about 23.9 mm which is as big as I have but there are bigger available.


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## Gregory Taylor (Mar 29, 2002)

Following up on TOG's brain storm, they do make seat post mandrels specifically for sizing seatposts. Not cheap - the one made by Stein runs about $70. A decent shop should have one, if you don't.

Being a practical and cheap sort, I like to try and find ways to fix things with crap that I can pick up at the hardware store. How about this - use a rubber expansion plug to get the top of the seat tube where it was crushed by the clamp back to somewhere near round? Get one slightly smaller than the inner diameter of the tube, slip it in, and then crank down on it...carefully...to uncrimp things. My guess is that the tubing is pretty thin and should move easily as the rubber expands. To help with the shape and to make sure that the mouth of the seat tube does not become bell-mouthed, I would get a nice, wide external seatpost clamp (i.e., one that fits the frame - you'll need one anyway) and place it over the opening, with the binder bolt loosely set to limit the expansion of the tube. This way, the clamp acts as a limiter (i.e., the mouth of the tube doesn't expand too far) and it helps to shape the tube. (If it were me, I would put the clamp on backwards, i.e. with the clamp opening 180 degrees from the slot in the seat tube). To finish it up, I would still get a cheap seatpost, fill it with sand, and LIGHTLY remove any remaining creases with a hard plastic mallet. Or you could just cover things up with the seat post clamp. 

Just a thought. [NOTE: I've not tried this. It just sounded good after my second cup of coffee this morning. ]

Or, the Dean website says that they do repairs. Maybe talk to them to see what they would charge to un-crimp the seat tube mouth.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

a steel ring mandrel is about 35 bucks in the size 10 to 25 size, solid steel...I can PM a link if you are interested. Not sure the general public can purchase from them but I can.










in the trade we call them "livestock mandrels"

This one is a 16 to 24, and is only 30 but they have the 10 to 25


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

I have one of these too:

Kagan Ring Sizer | eBay

which would work


OR you could make something like this!










which, btw, could easily be made out of wood


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

Wow--between the two of you, you're going to get this solved for me!

The technique I have read about would be to use a conventional handlebar stem with an expander plug--insert, tighten, loosen, insert again etc as you work your way around the dent. But this might only work with 1" tubing so I'm not sure if it will work here.

As with Greg's idea of the expansion plug, it puts the force under the collapsed part, and prevents any tendency of the 'ears' of the seatpost slot to collapse in. Expansion plug may be the way to go if I can size appropriately.

(I like the idea of having the collar loosely in place, however I tackle the dented area...)

There are also Carbide burrs available to clean up afterwards, although I might have trouble finding the proper metric size--might need a frame shop with a tool set to run their reamer through if it needs it.

Not sure yet what the tubing size is--probably 31.8 (OD) and 27.2 seatpost, but I need to check first.

The ring resizer idea would work much like the expander plug of the handlebar clamp or expansion plug, but I like that a version could be made that would give you some more control.

Edit to add: back to work on the renovation--outlets and switch covers for first part...


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## Gregory Taylor (Mar 29, 2002)

One more post and then I will be quiet (fat 'effing chance!)

- The idea of using an old quill stem to open up the mouth of the tube is pretty clever. I had not heard of that - learn something new every day! 

- I'd be very careful with the carbide burrs and the reamers. The metal in any bike tubing is pretty thin, and you aren't going want to do more than than slightly shave the inside of the tubing. 'Tis better to move the metal back to its proper place than to remove it. A framebuilder will probably have a Chadwick adjustable reamer, but if you need that you are in trouble. For just generally cleaning up a seat tube, I use a brake cylinder hone that goes on the end of a drill. It will polish out burrs, etc., and clean things up nicely. A Pep Boys special!

OEM Brake Cylinder Hone (3/4?? to 2-1/2??) | Product Details | Pep Boys

- One thought, if things go badly, just open up the mouth to the point where you can fit a sleeve into the seat tube and run a smaller seat post. Just a thought.

Problem Solver Seatpost Shim | Problem Solvers | Brand | www.PricePoint.com

- One last thought - Dean may have built the bike with a sleeved seat tube - i.e. the internal diameter of the seat tube is reduced by a sleeve that is pressed into the seat tube. I mention this because my ti Dean is set up this way. That may make the repair easier - just remove and replace the sleeve with a new one from Dean. Again, I don't know if your frame swings that way, but it might....


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

Gregory Taylor said:


> For just generally cleaning up a seat tube, I use a brake cylinder hone that goes on the end of a drill. It will polish out burrs, etc., and clean things up nicely. A Pep Boys special!
> 
> OEM Brake Cylinder Hone (3/4?? to 2-1/2??) | Product Details | Pep Boys
> ....


That looks like the ticket!--I found the burrs first, but was actually looking for something like this.

My machinist chops are pretty rusty, though, seeing that I haven't really done much since I used to work with my dad back in the day--and even then I was the 'gopher' not the brains of the operation..


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## Gregory Taylor (Mar 29, 2002)

It's a great little tool. Like many things in life, always use it with lots of oil. 

The only problem that you might have with the brake hone are the stones getting hung up in the seat collar slot. They make a hone that is a collection of balls - a flex hone - that should also work.

The REALLY low buck way to do it is to wrap a strip of medium grit emory cloth onto a drill bit (secure it on the bit with some duct tape) and hone away. Don't ask me how I know this...


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Gregory Taylor said:


> It's a great little tool. Like many things in life, always use it with lots of oil.
> 
> The only problem that you might have with the brake hone are the stones getting hung up in the seat collar slot. They make a hone that is a collection of balls - a flex hone - that should also work.
> 
> The REALLY low buck way to do it is to wrap a strip of medium grit emory cloth onto a drill bit (secure it on the bit with some duct tape) and hone away. Don't ask me how I know this...


'Cmon man, get a piece of mild steel rod and cut a slot on the end, put a strip of wet or dry through it and you have 2 ends spinning.... Sheesh.... They actually sell these!


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

Picked it up last night--it is a very cool, light frame.

Measurements 57 cm c-t-c seat tube; 58 cm c-t-c top tube 166 mm e-t-e head tube. Head tube is standard 1" head set so my fork should fit. 

Seat tube measures 29 mm and change so I'm assuming it is a standard 28.6 with paint--alas, I don't have a mech in stock for a no braze on frame.

Bad news is there is a slight tear where the seat tube is collapsed--so I will try opening it up and see what I have. Scooper has written about sleeving outside if necessary. There is also more rust than I expected--some starting where those lovely narrow stays join the seat tube-so powdercoat may have failed because that would have been a hard area to prep.

So I have some work cut out for me--I will build and try, and then decide if it is worth the work of a rebuild/repaint.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

paredown said:


> Picked it up last night--it is a very cool, light frame.
> 
> Measurements 57 cm c-t-c seat tube; 58 cm c-t-c top tube 166 mm e-t-e head tube. Head tube is standard 1" head set so my fork should fit.
> 
> ...


You mean 28.6mm?


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

Scooper said:


> You mean 28.6mm?


Nothing worse than a dyslexic mechanic! Especially if he's started cutting to the wrong size.

Corrected!


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Useless without pictures........ You new here?


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

Success!

Used a stem with an angled wedge. Inserted, tightened a little just past the slot, then worked my way clockwise around the opening in 22.5 increments. Did two passes, second time a little tighter.

This opened up the tube, and you can see the 27.2 is a pretty good fit. Once I could slide the seat tube in the opening, I carefully tapped on the remaining ridge with the seat tube in place and cradle block underneath and got a little more of the ridge tapped down. (On the horizontal picture the ridge starts at the bottom of the slot and goes up.)

You maybe can see the crack in the same spot-probably the first 1/4" from the bottom of the slot going up, then the ridge continues although mostly what you are seeing is discoloration.

And I think I know how this happened--the seatpost clamp that came with the frame now fits nicely on the tubing, but has a shoulder to keep it from sliding down. But the 27.2 seatpost will not fit into the opening on the top of the clamp.

So I think someone thought that it needed a smaller post (without trying a different clamp)--maybe 27.0?--and it was enough to collapse the tubing when tightened enough to keep the seatpost from sliding.

So now the debate is whether or not to extend the slot past the crack (perhaps drill a hole, or round out with a small round file just past the crack. It may be overkill but....
View attachment 292623

View attachment 292624


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Someone had done that with my waterford. The seat post is supposed to be 27.4 and the previous owner had use The 27.2, but it didn't crack it. I did have open it up some. The crack you have is not a serious issue,


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Btw I can't view the picture


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

Touch0Gray said:


> Btw I can't view the picture


Should be fixed now...

So, would you bother extending the slot down past the little crack?


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

what is it, about a mm?


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

Touch0Gray said:


> what is it, about a mm?


It's 3 to 4mm and a bit of a ridge where the two edges did not quite move back into place...

Ordered a Thomson clamp last night, and some English thread UT cups (have a Centaur UT with ugly decals in the parts bin--how did that happen?). Also found a Thomson 27.2 in the same place. Ordered some shims to use a 32mm Record band-on, and found a well used Centaur rear and brakes.

All I need to find is the bag with the frame cups for my old Look fork, and find some bargain shifters. I still miss the 2004 Centaurs I sold--OTOH, we were happy to be able to buy food that winter.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

drill i think

Edit : this is my waterford..


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

Did nothing on the bike yesterday, but was noodling on the interwebs last night and found out a little more about these frames.

They were built for Dean by Tom Teesdale/ TET Cycles who is still building nice bikes. 

There were at least two models--mine is called a Culebra built with 853 and (?)Zona (the shaped down tube) in 2001 and the follow on model in 2002 (which I believe to be the one that Greg had?) called the Culebra CTi that added carbon rear stays. You can see details here and here on Bikepedia.

They may also have changed the tubing offerings to Foco/Ultrafoco (as Greg remembers) since clearly Teesdale has built quite a lot with both those tube sets., although the description of the carbon-stay version--the CTi--just notes Zona tubing.

When I first hit the Teesdale site I got an older page with a sketch that looked very much like this frame, and on the same older version of his web page he notes the 'Aero downtube' under Columbus tubing as an additional $75 upcharge. But you can see in his current frames some of the same attributes--welded construction, breezer-style drop-outs and the especially the slightly dropped stay attachment at the seat tube.

And I found this picture on someone's Flickr account--and did a screen capture. (The guy stripped this paint!!! Kids!!!!)--clearly the orange color offered according to Bikepedia--and you can see the 853 sticker on the seat tube:


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

Touch0Gray said:


> drill i think
> 
> Edit : this is my waterford..


Thanks for the pic--gives me an idea of scale. I thought I would mark and centerpunch my hole location, then use double hacksaw blades to cut down to the hole, and then carefully clean everything up with some emery cloth and jeweler's file...


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

Hole drilled--853 is tough stuff.

Parts are not arriving very fast. Guy with the seatpost clamp could not find it to ship after I bought it--so reordered that. Found some slightly beat-up Centaur levers w/o hoods (have hoods in stock) but they are coming from the UK. Derailleur shim people sold me a bag of five, and then sent a single, and asked me to ship it back instead of doing a deal. So that is reordered as well. 

(I'd pick up these parts at a LBS if I had one, but the closest ones look at me blankly when I go in for my requests.)

Now I need a 32h Centaur or Chorus current gen hub at a reasonable price (another thing I used to have a spare but sold) or front wheel and I should be good to go.


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## Galligato (May 24, 2021)




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## Galligato (May 24, 2021)

Just wanted to show another survivor. Same Culebra 853 with the original Dura Ace group set, upgraded the cockpit to Dedda 35 and a Repente Comptus seat. Still have the orinal Dura Ave crankset to change back to fully vintage if needed. The wheels are original Bonyrager race lite with 25 gatorskins as Is my commute bike. Just love it and is 20 years and counting.


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

Galligato said:


> Just wanted to show another survivor. Same Culebra 853 with the original Dura Ace group set, upgraded the cockpit to Dedda 35 and a Repente Comptus seat. Still have the orinal Dura Ave crankset to change back to fully vintage if needed. The wheels are original Bonyrager race lite with 25 gatorskins as Is my commute bike. Just love it and is 20 years and counting.


Nice to see a complete one--I have not seen the yellow before. Mine is languishing in a box--I built it up and decided it was a tad to big, although it is definitely a nice riding bike.


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## BlueDean (Aug 30, 2021)

Hi guys, I recently picked up a blue 55/56cm Dean Zona with the Columbus steel and upgraded the handlebars & wheelset. Full ultegra 6500. I haven't seen much info on this bike either, does anybody know what they're selling for? (Located in Denver)


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