# are aero spokes worth it?



## tattooedtriathlete (Sep 19, 2008)

Apologies in advance if this is a dumb obvious question but I was just wondering.

So if aero spokes are so aero and therefore make you faster why do i only see carbon wheels with round spokes not aero spokes? have i just not seen enough high end carbons? are aero spokes just a gimmick? and if, on a wheel build with the same hubs and rims, the aero spoke wheel weighs more, then why go for that over the lighter round spoke wheel? 

Of course, aero spokes look nice.....


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

The difference is negligible to start...and bladed (aero) spokes wind up and end up all twisted with respect to the wind anyway-so you don't really gain thing in real life.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

Opinions vary. In a straight-on test, the aero spoke does better... But a spoke seldom sees the wind from straight on. Either they're shielded by the tire/rim, or a true sidewind/tailwind means that the effective wind angle is somewhere (say 10deg.) away from head-on. 

At an angle, it's not hard for an aero spoke to be less efficient than a round one. And even at angles where there's still a net aero benefit, they can create an amount of side force that ends up creating other sources of bike drag (like tire scrub) that aren't adequately measured in wind tunnel testing. 

At least that's the argument. Very smart people who's only interest is building the fastest possible wheels come to different conclusions. Which, when you think of it, says all you really need to know. If the difference were enough to be plainly obvious, we'd not see the 'loser' in the market.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

danl1 said:


> Opinions vary. In a straight-on test, the aero spoke does better... But a spoke seldom sees the wind from straight on. Either they're shielded by the tire/rim, or a true sidewind/tailwind means that the effective wind angle is somewhere (say 10deg.) away from head-on.
> 
> At an angle, it's not hard for an aero spoke to be less efficient than a round one. And even at angles where there's still a net aero benefit, they can create an amount of side force that ends up creating other sources of bike drag (like tire scrub) that aren't adequately measured in wind tunnel testing.
> 
> At least that's the argument. Very smart people who's only interest is building the fastest possible wheels come to different conclusions. Which, when you think of it, says all you really need to know. If the difference were enough to be plainly obvious, we'd not see the 'loser' in the market.


+1. That is the arguement Easton uses for using round spokes. I bought that arguement. Some attributes of products are included not because they perform better but simply because people buy them.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

I have rims with round spokes and rims with aero spokes... I can definitively say that aero spokes.... look cooler!


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## MrTiles (Feb 28, 2005)

I'm weighing the cx-rays to the WS 2.0/1.7s now. there's a BIG price difference, that's for sure!


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

DrSmile said:


> I can definitively say that aero spokes.... look cooler!


Repeat after me:

"I was dead-drunk when I typed this."

Admission is the first step of treatment.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

I've built about 5 wheelsets with Wheelsmith AE spokes. 

They are "aero" but essentially about the size of a normal spoke if it was oval.

These wheels have always provided a nice ride.

What I really liked about using them for wheels I built, was that I could monitor any spoke windup and correct it easily.

Interesting that you ask this question about the same time as the discussion of Mavic R-Sys wheels using huge round carbon spokes. I don't see aero in their description.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

I bought bladed spokes because back in the day they were the shizzle and I wanted 'em.

Just like people buy (insert lusted-after product here) today because they are the shizzle.


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## Cygnus (Nov 26, 2004)

i ride two very different bikes, one w/ aero spokes, one w/ round spokes.

i'm noticing a pretty 'unstable' ride in heavy winds with aero spokes...to the point of slowing down on high speed downhills or crossing windy sections. 

i think the spokes are main problem. i'd give up a bit of speed for more stability.


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## daniyarm (Aug 19, 2008)

I think that aerodynamics advantage on a rotating wheel is negligible compared to the crosswind resistance. It may give you an advantage if you are a pro rider averaging 30mph, but I'd hate to battle the cross winds climbing a hill.


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

Marc said:


> Repeat after me:
> 
> "I was dead-drunk when I typed this."
> 
> Admission is the first step of treatment.


I do think bladed spokes do look cooler. That's one thing they do for a bike. Otherwise I wouldn't see so many Mavic wheels around here.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Peanya said:


> I do think bladed spokes do look cooler. That's one thing they do for a bike. Otherwise I wouldn't see so many Mavic wheels around here.



What is that saying something about opiates and masses?


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

Marc said:


> What is that saying something about opiates and masses?


Umm... they take your worries away?


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

tattooedtriathlete said:


> So if aero spokes are so aero and therefore make you faster why do i only see carbon wheels with round spokes not aero spokes? have i just not seen enough high end carbons?QUOTE]
> 
> Reynolds uses the DT Aerolite for front wheel and also for the rear NDS on all but their budget carbon wheels.
> 
> Also, the Campy Bora Ultra uses aero spoke and the Bontrager Aeolus.


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## ARP (Mar 7, 2002)

*Speaking of aero wheels/spokes*

Do they still make the wheel covers? I have a nylon wheel cover set that converts a standard wheel into a disk wheel. There is a wire hoop, covered in nylon and it has these hooks you put on every spoke at the rim edge and you fit the hoop into the hooks, instant disk wheel. Hole is cut out for the hub on each side.


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## Oldteen (Sep 7, 2005)

Most well-respected wind tunnel data (inc, testing variety of wind angles) seem to indicate a small but real advantage to bladed over round spokes, but ovalized spokes (e.g. CX-Rays) are even better with less problem in cross-winds. 
Look in the Tech section on Zipp's web site (no I do not own or have any connection to Zipp), or in testing articles at www.rouesartisenales.com, or in the (almost famous) Sep 05 Tour Magazine article on high-end aero wheels.

That said- Aero difference is a minor issue for non-racers. Advantage of the best aero wheels (best spokes AND deep profile rims) vs traditional 32 round spoke box rim wheels is perhaps 1.5-2 min in a 40kTT. Spokes alone would be a fraction of that difference. Other issues are (or should be) more important to most riders. What good is saving a minute per hour if the wheels don't have the ride/handling/reliability you want? (Bling don't count to me)

BTW- I see few recent model carbon wheels with round spokes.


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## Kristatos (Jan 10, 2008)

I am always suspicious of wind-tunnel data as it is such an artificial environment. That and if you add up all the 1 minute saving you get in a 40km TT due to spokes, skin-suit material, frame tubing cross-section, tires, blah blah blah you'd finish the time trial in 8 minutes.

All kidding aside, I have run both bladed and non, and now only build my wheels with round spokes. I never felt faster with a bladed spoke wheel but I did have a harder time keeping the bike straight in crosswinds.


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## Pieter (Oct 17, 2005)

The Aksiums that I used, made a noise like a fan at speed on any day when there was a fair amount of side-on wind. 

And even on a wind free day, descending 40mph plus they made a racket. Maybe I should have tweaked the incidence angle of each spoke like just so, eh?

Not at all sure that that is a good sign for good aerodynamics.


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