# Colnago Dealers (Wash DC)



## RayWhitney

All:

I am looking at Colnago v Pinarello for my next bike. My LBS is a Pinarello dealer, so no problem there. I am having difficulty locating Colnago dealers in the Washington, DC region. I actually live in Maryland, but work in the city.

Any recommendations? 

Also, does anyone "in the know" have information on distribution, etc? What is my best bet for purchase, with regard to manufacturer support? It seems that a lot of shops have dropped Colnago (or vice-versa). Any info?

Many thanks in advance!


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## fick

Give Mike at Maestro in the UK a call or drop him an email. Great guy to work with.
http://www.maestro-uk.com


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## FondriestFan

fick said:


> Give Mike at Maestro in the UK a call or drop him an email. Great guy to work with.
> http://www.maestro-uk.com



Exactly. If you want a Colnago, just call Mike.


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## 27davidson

Easy. Bicycle Pro Shop in Georgetown has been selling Colnagos and other top end road bikes for years. They're located at the Key Bridge end of M Street. They just built up a 2009 C-50 for me and did a beautiful job. I've bought other bikes from them over the years and I can't say enough about how good they are. Everyone in the store knows their stuff. Do yourself a favor and go there.


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## Colnago America

27davidson - THANK YOU for pointing in the directing of Authorized & Official Colnago Dealer and wanting to support you US based LBS.


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## boysa

Colnago America said:


> 27davidson - THANK YOU for pointing in the directing of Authorized & Official Colnago Dealer and wanting to support you US based LBS.


I'll support my "US based LBS" when they start charging prices comparable with the rest of the free world. Paying double for everything is not my idea of a good time. For the price difference between US based retailers and those overseas (authorized included!) I'd rather buy from the UK and if there's a problem, heck I can fly myself and the frame over there with the $$ I've saved.


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## fabsroman

I'll second that. I bought my Cristallo and C50 from Andrea Bellati at Bellatisport in Switzerland. Check out www.bellatisport.com If it turns out that he can no longer sell the frames over the Internet, I'll have my cousins in northern Italy buy the frames for me and ship them here.


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## fabsroman

Ray,

I was going to mention this shop down in Georgetown, but the few experiences I have had with them have all been bad ones. I took my Cristallo, the first frame I bought in 20 years, to them in early 2007 to have the headset installed and I got a song and dance about buying from overseas, even though I bought the headset from them. When I got my frame back with the headset installed, the fork had a pretty long scratch in the clear coat. I hadn't noticed it until I got home, so it was too late to complain about it. When I was leaving the shop, I had asked them to track down some spokes for me so that I could build a wheel, and they never got back to me. Then, I called them on the phone to order a nut for my Campy Record brakes because I had stripped it, and they said they would get back to me about it but never did.

For the next frame I built, a Colnago Arte, I spent $400 on the headset tools and now I don't have to go to an LBS for anything. I build my own bikes and my own wheels. If you want to look at some Colnagos, stop by my place. You can look at a C50, Cristallo, Arte, and Oval Krono. I want an EP or EPS, but that would lead to a divorce right now, plus I cannot really justify it since I never feel any of my current frames flex. I am working on the C50 build right now, but an air brush artist in Ellicott City screwed up my bars and saddle, so I am ordering new ones and setting the botched ones aside as evidence for the Court hearing. That should be a fun trial.


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## Colnago America

But you do expect that your LBS will support you when you show up with a frame purchased from a grey market dealer! I think the word for you Gentlemen to learn is loyalty - to your LBS, with the times we all are facing any action/purchase to keep US jobs, shops in busines should be done. With the new pricing that we have announced your local Colnago Dealer has become so much more competitive as there is no distributor in the middle. Please note that with each frame a Colnago branded Seat Post & Head Set has been included in the price, a step to offer added value.


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## RayWhitney

Thanks to all for your helpful and enthusiastic suggestions!

I will stop by the Georgetown shop and see what I can see, ride the bikes. As to the purchase, we will have to see what materializes...


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## Colnago America

Please ask for Noel at the Pro Shop. He is the Gentlemen you want to help you being set up on a Colnago. Thanks.


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## fabsroman

No, I do not expect my LBS to support me if I have a problem with my frame. I expect Colnago frames to be extremely good, and for the $2,500 I saved between the Cristallo and C50 frame purchases, I would just go out and buy a new frame with the money saved if Mr. Bellati cannot take care of the problem. If I had a second issue with a Colnago frame during my lifetime, that would end up being the last Colnago frame that I purchased.

What exactly is a "gray market" dealer? Are Maestro and Bellati both gray market dealers, and if so, how do they get all these Colnago frames. Is somebody sending them out the back door of the Colnago factory? I find it hard to believe that Colnago does not know about Maestro and Bellati. What I really find amazing is the level of service that I have received from Maestro and Bellati compared to my snobby LBS. Both Maestro and Bellati answer e-mails within 24 hours, and Bellati kept me appraised of the situation the entire time regarding the delivery of my frames. Bike Pro Shop in Georgetown treated me like a 2nd class citizen. Maybe, just maybe, if they had treated me well with the Cristallo, I would have thought about buying one of my 2 Artes, my Oval Krono, or my C50 from them if they were only a couple hundred dollars more expensive than Maestro or Bellati. However, treating me like crap and having much higher prices isn't going to earn my loyalty. Loyalty is a two way street. They need to earn it and they need to be loyal to me too.


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## bikesarethenewblack

RayWhitney said:


> Thanks to all for your helpful and enthusiastic suggestions!
> 
> I will stop by the Georgetown shop and see what I can see, ride the bikes. As to the purchase, we will have to see what materializes...


BTW, when you go to Pro Shop - deal with Noel. I have known him for 15 years and he is a straight up guy. Call ahead of time and make sure he is in and only deal with him. Trust me on this. Everyone else is fine, but Noel is the guy you want to deal with.


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## Colnago America

A grey market dealer - is NOT an Official & authorized Colnago dealer, they get their inventory from shops across Europe, their margins are in the 1 digit. They do not have all the inventory they claim to have - but reach out to their "shops" and that is the way they get their inventory. If Bike Pro Shop did not work with you, I agree with you - but there are other Colnago Dealers in the US that you could support. In the US & Canada only 2 shops can have web sales, R&A in NY and Wrench Science in CA. We feel very strongly about Colnago web sales.


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## 27davidson

I have never experienced anything like what you're talking about at the Pro Shop in Georgetown and I have been going there since the mid 1980's. I've bought four bikes from them - two Bianchis back in the 80's when they were selling them, a 2006 Orbea Orca and now the C-50. Personally, I would rather support a great LBS like the Pro Shop where I can go shoot the s--- with the guys who work there, even when I'm not buying anything, than save a few bucks dealing with some faceless entity on the internet.


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## Colnago America

BTW, when you go to Pro Shop - deal with Noel. I have known him for 15 years and he is a straight up guy. Call ahead of time and make sure he is in and only deal with him. Trust me on this. Everyone else is fine, but Noel is the guy you want to deal with.

THIS IS THE FEED BACK REG. BIKE PRO SHOP - From bikesarethenewblack


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## fabsroman

I definitely didn't deal with Noel on any occasion when dealing with Bike Pro Shop. Maybe that was my problem.


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## fabsroman

Then you should also feel very strongly about getting LBS's to carry Colnago's. I'm in the 20876 Zip Code and Bike Pro Shop is about a 45 minute drive for me. Who else in my area carries Colnagos? Maybe you should set up a website with a dealer locator, because trying to find a dealer that has any inventory is almost impossible. I bought my Cristallo from Bellati without every having ridden a Cristallo, or a Colnago for that matter.

I just thought about another dealer that carries Colnagos, the Bicycle Place in Silver Spring, and I saw a couple of frames at a Bike Doctor in Arnold. However, the Bicycle Place had all of two Colnagos built and neither were my size and the Bike Doctor in Arnold only had one built and 2 hanging on the wall, none of which were my size.

Now, more to the point. Are Maestro and Bellati gray market dealers? Personally, I liked the fact that I could get retro paint schemes from Maestro.

Let's also note that you represent the Colnago North America distributor, so you have a vested interest in having people buy in North America instead of from overseas.


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## fabsroman

27Davidson,

You must be rich to think that $2,500 is a "few" bucks. If you are that rich and $2,500 isn't much, you could actually hop on a plane and go and visit Mike in England and Andrea in Switzerland. People on this board have. Further, both of them have welcomed me to come and see them in their shops.

You have all of 2 posts on the board so you probably have not read all the threads/posts about the great experiences that people have had with Maestro and Bellati.

As far as the Bike Pro Shop is concerned, every experience I had with them left a bad taste in my mouth, so we will have to agree to disagree about how good they are. Who knows, maybe they thought I was a troublesome customer that wasn't worth their time. If so, it has worked out for all of us.

Another thing to note is that the C50 in ST01 wasn't available in the US from Veltec, so for me to get the paint scheme I wanted, on the frame I wanted, I had no choice but to order it from overseas, even if price were exactly the same.


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## boysa

.....


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## boysa

fabsroman said:


> Now, more to the point. Are Maestro and Bellati gray market dealers?


Still waiting for a definitive answer to this question! FWIW, I do know Slane Cycles is an authorized dealer in the UK, and their prices are ridiculously low. I haven't purchased from them myself, but have had good communication with them. 

But wait, maybe I'd rather call R&A and buy a leftover 2004 C50 for the same price as a brand new 2009 from Slane/Maestro/Bellati. :thumbsup: Are you kidding me?!? I work in retail, so don't give me this garbage about "loyalty to your LBS." As a retailer, you need to treat your customers with respect in order to get their loyalty. I don't mind spending a few extra bucks to meet with someone face-to-face, shake hands, know I can see them if I have a problem, etc., etc., but the price difference is so extreme it is really a joke. And fabsroman is correct, for the $$ we're talking about you can fly over and meet Mike from Maestro face to face... heck, even take him and his family to dinner... and still have $$ leftover!


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## FondriestFan

This "authorized dealer" stuff is bs.

Anyone who picks up the phone and talks to Mike at Maestro will be doing themselves a favor. Why buy a Colnago elsewhere? Support? Your shop will send it back to Italy anyway. If you need support, you just send it to Mke and he takes care of it.

Colnago created this mess anyway. They mismanaged the US market for years. Now, they're reaping the fruits of their own stupidity.


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## royd

After extensive research and the positive feedback from customers I purchased my bike from Mike @ Maestro. I could not find any local LBS or USA dealer to match or beat the price from Maestro! Going this route I was able to save over $2000 between the frame set and a Campy 11v group set. As Fabsroman pointed out $2000-$2500 is a lot to pay for a oneway loyalty to a local LBS.
I am all for supporting the local LBS but at what cost to my pocket book?
Colnago should re-evaluate their pricing model for the USA and find a way to be more price competitive to the UK dealers. Hopefully my next Colnago will be from my LBS.


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## 27davidson

fabsroman,

The few bucks I'm referring to is the difference between what I paid for my C-50 frame which came with a Colnago 28mm seatpost and the price I see quoted in Euros and then converted to Dollars that Maestro is quoting on their website. I paid $95 more, including the seatpost, which Maestro charges extra for. And the Pro Shop worked with me on the price of the Campy Record 11s components, Fulcrum wheels and everything else that the C-50 was built up with. I didn't have to make any long distance calls, incur any shipping costs or fly to the U.K. or Switzerland to accomplish this.


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## fabsroman

If it was $95 more, I would buy from the LBS too. Maestro and Bellati have recently raised their prices. I got my C50 in October from Bellati for $3,250 delivered to my door, but no seatpost, which was okay with me because I wanted to use a Campy post anyway.

How does $3,250 compare to what you had to pay for your C50 down in Georgetown? Send me a PM if you don't want to put it on the board. I'm just curious. Everything I saw on the internet in the US was $4,400 or more, some as high as $4,800, which I thought was insane.

By the way, did you remember to subtract the 15% VAT at Maestro when you did the calculation.

The price listed on Maestro's website today is 2,177 Euros, which converts to $2,952, and Mike charges $100 to ship the frame. So, that would be $3,052 for the frame to your door, without the seatpost. Now, if you can tell me that you paid $3,200 for that frame in Georgetown, I might actually think about giving an LBS my frame business.

Also, if you got a deal on the frame because they had to get rid of it, then that doesn't count either. I wanted the exact frame and color scheme I had in mind, and wasn't willing to settle for anything less.


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## fabsroman

When I built my Cristallo 2 years ago, I got 2007 Campy 10 speed UT, brand new and just as it was coming out, for $1,000 for an 8 piece group set from 11speed.com, which isn't around any more. Comobike.com has pretty good prices though. Like you, I saved between $2,500 and $3,000 on that build by not going through Wrench Science, Competitive Cyclist, or any LBS. That amount is almost enough for a pretty decent vacation in Italy. When I take another vacation to Italy, you can bet I will buy another frame directly from Bellati.


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## 27davidson

The C-50 frame was brand new and came from Veltec, the then distributor, meaning that it wasn't sitting in the store and had to be gotten rid of. After a consultation with the Bicycle Pro Shop staff regarding the correct frame size for me, the frame was ordered and sent to them. The cost to me, including the Colnago seatpost and the approximate 6% D.C. sales tax, was $78 higher than the last amount you mention in your post.

Remember that the economy has gone in the tank; prices on frames and components are changing weekly. What was true last October isn't now and what's true now won't be six months from now; it could be more or it could be less.


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## bikesarethenewblack

27davidson said:


> The C-50 frame was brand new and came from Veltec, the then distributor, meaning that it wasn't sitting in the store and had to be gotten rid of. After a consultation with the Bicycle Pro Shop staff regarding the correct frame size for me, the frame was ordered and sent to them. The cost to me, including the Colnago seatpost and the approximate 6% D.C. sales tax, was $78 higher than the last amount you mention in your post.
> 
> Remember that the economy has gone in the tank; prices on frames and components are changing weekly. What was true last October isn't now and what's true now won't be six months from now; it could be more or it could be less.


I don't want to get too much in the middle of this, but I can tell you that if you buy a colnago from Noel he will work with you. I know that for a fact. The pro shop is like a lot of silly shops - you can walk in and they will give you attitude and sometimes you can walk in and get the right guy. I am telling you, though, work with Noel. In my mind an online purchase has to be, at least, 10% less. If it's not it's not worth the issue. What do I mean by that:

Generally speaking, I said generally, so please spare me other tails, a long standing LBS who has dealt for a long time with high-end brand like colnago will give you better service. Bike builds, bike tuneups, quicker service and direct warranty service. You buy online, then expect what your going to get - deal with all the issues online. Send the bike back for warranty issues and good luck getting a shop to build your bike quickly (that is if you need it). What about fit? I don't know about you, but no matter how much measuring I do I still need to try different stem lengths. If you have a bunch of stems in different lengths and geometry, good for you, but if not and you want to maybe go from a 120 to a 130 this can be done with little to no charge. Same things with cranks - I can and have gone from 175m to 177.5 on some bikes and done so with no charge. I mess around with spacers and stems and then have them cut the steerer tube. Sure, you can do it too, but if you mess up - you void the warranty and last I checked those forks retails for a lot no matter the retailer.

Just my two cents.

Lastly, let me ask, did you even really walk in there and ask? For real? Not a phone call or a look at the price or even a quick "how much is this?" But a real discussion on the bike and the price? The old - unless you ask the answer is always no - comes to mind.


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## KennyG

Here is my 2 cents worth on this topic: 

It amazes me how there can be such a huge price difference between UK and US dealers! With almost every industry going global these days, I would think that the US dealers would do whatever is needed to have more competitive pricing on Colnago frames, but there may be factors involved that I don't understand. 

I totally agree with the sentiment that we should support the US economy and the LBS whenever it makes sense to do so, but I don’t think consumers should be expected to do so blindly. I recently bought a closeout 2008 EP frame from a US mail-order co (backcountry) for under $3200 delivered. In this case, and with the price basically the same as an overseas dealer, I obviously preferred to use the US dealer (and did so). This was a lucky find though, as it was a closeout frame, and they had very limited numbers and sizes. They just happened to have the size & color I was looking for. 

This was an exception. Typically, Colnago frames from US dealers are WAY more expensive than overseas. If I were to order an EPS from a US dealer, I would pay $5500. Mike in the UK is around $3300-3400 for the same exact EPS frame/fork/headset/post after shipping. I just can't imagine how a consumer could be expected to spend an additional $2000+ just for the sake of loyalty and supporting a local shop. If the difference was a few hundred bucks - say even up to $500, then that could be a reasonable expectation for US buyers - but not when it is a $2000 up-charge! The kind of “customer service” that would be required to justify an additional $2000 spent would require loose morals and a shop pimp…

Like I said, there may be things at work in the market that I just don't understand, but if US Colnago dealers want to have the US market, they need to find a way to charge US customers close to the same amount that the rest of the world is paying for them.


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## Richieg

Colnago America said:


> But you do expect that your LBS will support you when you show up with a frame purchased from a grey market dealer! I think the word for you Gentlemen to learn is loyalty - to your LBS, with the times we all are facing any action/purchase to keep US jobs, shops in busines should be done. With the new pricing that we have announced your local Colnago Dealer has become so much more competitive as there is no distributor in the middle. Please note that with each frame a Colnago branded Seat Post & Head Set has been included in the price, a step to offer added value.


So all 2009 Colnago's are sold with a post and headset?


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## Colnago America

The difference is to be found in the exchange rate, shipping cost and the willingness to only make $100 - $200 per frame. If the US Dealer would do the same, he would be able to offer the same or even better prices.
Colango America.


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## RayWhitney

Ask a simple question...

 

This will clearly be a pursuit, and not a quick decision, so I thank you all again for the information!


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## fabsroman

27Davidson,

Was this frame just purchased recently? From what I heard, Veltec was blowing out their Colnago frames at great prices recently because they were no longer going to be the distributor. You might have been the exception to the rule. I know the prices in the Pro Shop in Georgetown in late 2006 to early 2007 when I had them put my headset in were rather insane.


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## fabsroman

It definitely shouldn't be a quick decision. When I was looking to buy my first new bike in 20 years back in 2006, it took me 6 months to figure it all out. I thought about a ton of different frames and componentry.


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## KennyG

I am going on two years now for a final decision about my dream bike, and I am still having some last minute second guessing (on frame size)! :mad2: 

For me, the thinking/obsessing is half the fun. But I am getting to the point now though where I just want to have the project done....


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## Colnago America

If there is anything we can help with - please let us know.
Colnago America


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## FondriestFan

Colnago America said:


> The difference is to be found in the exchange rate, shipping cost and the willingness to only make $100 - $200 per frame. If the US Dealer would do the same, he would be able to offer the same or even better prices.
> Colango America.



Why should they? If the LBS can make a better margin, they'll go with another brand.

The shops will make their money elsewhere. You're the ones competing for their floor space anyway.


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## Colnago America

I agree with you - why do that! Only making a few $$ pr frame! Competition is great, but lets compete on the offered product range, colors, geometry, riding quality etc. NOT on pricing.
Colnago America


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## 27davidson

fabsroman,

I bought the frame earlier this month (March '09) from the Pro Shop and they built it up.


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## FondriestFan

Colnago America said:


> I agree with you - why do that! Only making a few $$ pr frame! Competition is great, but lets compete on the offered product range, colors, geometry, riding quality etc. NOT on pricing.
> Colnago America


I don't think you agree with me, because that's not what I'm saying. And your comments about not competing on price don't make any sense. 

You can start competing on all those things once your product is free. Until it's free you have to compete on price. Your prospective customer base, for the most part, is not price inelastic. Campagnolo just found that out the hard way.

People pay a price for a certain amount of quality. I'm not criticizing your product, since I think Colnagos such as the C-50/EP/EPS are magnificent. However, the marketing acumen at Colnago is virtually nonexistent. 

Colnagos are the same price as Time, which offers a) lifetime warranty, b) an amazingly innovative product, c) perhaps the highest quality carbon in the industry.

So, don't be so quick on competing on more abstract concepts. Colnago isn't winning there either.


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## Colnago America

If TIME makes such a great product, the highest quality of carbon - explain the recall on their latest frame due to the fact that the seat mast was cracking?
Quality & price go hand in hand - my point is why compete on the price on a product (any product) that there is a demand for?


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## 27davidson

Fabsroman,

I apologize - I bought my c-50 in mid February 2009. The Bicycle Pro Shop finished building it up in March.


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## fabsroman

No need to apologize. I don't think the difference between February and March 2009 makes much of a difference. I have no idea when Veltec knew that they were getting the ax and decided to liquidate their Colnago stock, but it was somewhere around February or March. Good Colnago deals were popping up in a couple of places in the US at that time. It almost made me want to buy an EP. LOL

If the Pro Shop passed this savings on to you, that is a plus in their case. I hope Colnago frames remain at an affordable price here in the US so that I can buy from an LBS, but I doubt that will be the case. Time will tell.


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## fabsroman

There are a lot of reasons to compete on price. If there was such a high demand for Colnago, the price would be even higher. If Colnago could not produce frames fast enough to fill demand, they could increase price such that demand levels off. Competing via price takes a lot of analysis that I don't even want to get into (e.g., economies of scale, factory capacity, market share, market dominance). If I hadn't found Bellatisport and Maestro back in 2006 when I was debating which frame to buy, I probably would have gone with a Bianchi insteaad. I just couldn't swallow $3,600 for a Colnago Cristallo (i.e., my dream bike) versus $1,800 for a Bianchi 928. The Bianchi was half the price of the Colnago. When I found the Cristallo for $2,500 at Bellatisport, that made it easier to swallow.


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## FondriestFan

Colnago America said:


> If TIME makes such a great product, the highest quality of carbon - explain the recall on their latest frame due to the fact that the seat mast was cracking?
> Quality & price go hand in hand - my point is why compete on the price on a product (any product) that there is a demand for?


Time's latest frame is the RXR Ulteam. I have not seen any recalls on that.
I have not seen any recalls on the Worldstar either.
Oh, and yes, they have a LIFETIME warranty. Not two years, like Colnago. I guess they just have more confidence in their product.

What I am pointing out is that for the same price, I get Time's lifetime warranty, the stem, headset, seatpost, and bottle cage.

Oh, and did I mention a LIFETIME warranty?

Look, nobody is saying you should lower your price below what customers are willing to pay for your bikes. You should choose to sell the profit-maximizing quantity. If you are currently doing so, great! Congratulations. I wish you nothing but continued success.

However, based on what I see, US dealers are dropping Colnago left and right because, let's face it, it's just cheaper to get the frame from overseas, and quite frankly, I'd have to really want a Colnago to pay over $5k for a frame with a two-year warranty.


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## Richieg

I really don't think Colnago prices are out of line compared to other high end bikes. The EPS is actually $50 cheaper than a Prince and $500 cheaper than a Time RXR. I realize the Time has a better warranty but most will tell you their customer service in the USA really sucks..


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## Richieg

FondriestFan said:


> I don't think you agree with me, because that's not what I'm saying. And your comments about not competing on price don't make any sense.
> 
> You can start competing on all those things once your product is free. Until it's free you have to compete on price. Your prospective customer base, for the most part, is not price inelastic. Campagnolo just found that out the hard way.
> 
> People pay a price for a certain amount of quality. I'm not criticizing your product, since I think Colnagos such as the C-50/EP/EPS are magnificent. However, the marketing acumen at Colnago is virtually nonexistent.
> 
> Colnagos are the same price as Time, which offers a) lifetime warranty, b) an amazingly innovative product, c) perhaps the highest quality carbon in the industry.
> 
> So, don't be so quick on competing on more abstract concepts. Colnago isn't winning there either.


 Yea, your right about Campagnolo USA. With the Euro and pound pretty low, many went to Europe for their groups. Why pay $3300 for Super Record when you can get it for $1800 in Europe?


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## 27davidson

fabsroman,

The Bicycle Pro Shop called me in mid February to say that Veltec was liquidating their stock. They called me the same day they got word of this from Veltec. I have been a customer of theirs for years and they knew I was lusting after a Colnago so I assume that's why I got the call. That's a reason to support your favorite LBS.


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## fabsroman

That only goes to prove my point, and it might not even be Bicycle Pro Shop that is responsible for the Colnago prices being high there. If it takes a liquidation by Veltec to be able to get you to within $78 of what I pay for an overseas frame, what happens the rest of the time when I want a Colnago frame but Veltec is not having a liquidation. Also, as I noted, Veltec would not have had the C50 in ST01, which is the only color scheme I would buy it in.

Plus, how much money have I already saved by buying stuff over the internet versus my LBS?

I'm fortunate in that I do ALL of my own wrenching and wheel building, so I don't need the services of an LBS. Maybe, if I needed them to wrench on my bike, then I would be okay with paying their prices. Here is another example. Chris King headset from Bicycle Pro Shop was $150, but on e-bay I got a brand new one for $105. Doesn't sound like a big amount when it is only $45, but how about $450, or looking at it in percentages.


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## FondriestFan

Richieg said:


> I really don't think Colnago prices are out of line compared to other high end bikes. The EPS is actually $50 cheaper than a Prince and $500 cheaper than a Time RXR. I realize the Time has a better warranty but most will tell you their customer service in the USA really sucks..


But with the RXR, you get the seatpost, carbon stem, headset and bottle cage.
Plus the lifetime warranty.


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## Richieg

FondriestFan said:


> But with the RXR, you get the seatpost, carbon stem, headset and bottle cage.
> Plus the lifetime warranty.


 You get a headset and post with the EPS. Even with a nice stem and cage it's still cheaper. I don't really know about the warranty on the Time. From what I inderstand, it's hard to get Time Usa to do anything with warranty issues.


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## odeum

*i stay away*

from the door of a "lbs" and go to gvhbikes.com, then get the rest from Dom at eurobikeparts.com.
you will be self sufficient this way, don't worry about this concept of "support" you entertain.



RayWhitney said:


> All:
> 
> I am looking at Colnago v Pinarello for my next bike. My LBS is a Pinarello dealer, so no problem there. I am having difficulty locating Colnago dealers in the Washington, DC region. I actually live in Maryland, but work in the city.
> 
> Any recommendations?
> 
> Also, does anyone "in the know" have information on distribution, etc? What is my best bet for purchase, with regard to manufacturer support? It seems that a lot of shops have dropped Colnago (or vice-versa). Any info?
> 
> Many thanks in advance!


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## robert

I've bought several Colnago frames on-line (from cbike.com and competitivecyclist.com), along with a Dura Ace build kit from Colorado Cyclist, then had City Bikes in Bethesda, MD. put the bikes together.


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## tofumann

Support?? What on earth do they support me in return IF i paid them few hundred of my hard-earned dollars for a Colnago? You mean the snobby machanics whom think they are fixing "space shuttles" for a living? I said that because I did get my eps from an "authorized dealer".....

It's the CULTURE of "cycling-business" in the U.S, which i have a problem with.


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## Colnago America

Snobby mechanics..NOT GOOD! I agree! When we talk about support it has multiple level to it - warranty, crash replacement, stocking levels so you can get your Colnago with a minimum of waiting time. Do not hesitate to share the name of the any Dealer that may have an "attitude" it also reflects on Colnago. Thanks. Colnago America.


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## gearguywb

Colnago America...I have seen you post a couple of different times now about the "new competitive pricing" on Colnago's. If I understand the term then we should see a decrease in pricing for the frames in the US vs overseas. Is that correct? I would love to see Colnago make the leap that it appears is needed to sell through LBS. It sounds to me, the more I read and research, that price is THE factor that are keeping sales overseas. How has Colnago America addressed the issue? Thank you in advance.


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## fabsroman

gearguywb said:


> Colnago America...I have seen you post a couple of different times now about the "new competitive pricing" on Colnago's. If I understand the term then we should see a decrease in pricing for the frames in the US vs overseas. Is that correct? I would love to see Colnago make the leap that it appears is needed to sell through LBS. It sounds to me, the more I read and research, that price is THE factor that are keeping sales overseas. How has Colnago America addressed the issue? Thank you in advance.


I think Colnago is addressing the issue overseas by raising prices overseas while Colnago America is keeping them constant in the US. Just my gut feeling.


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## Colnago America

Thank you for your email. The Colnago prices has been reduced considerably after establishing Colnago America. EPS from $6.500 to $5.500 WITH seat post included - C50 from $5.300 to $4.300 with head set & seat post included and CX-1 from $4.400 to $3.200 with seat post included. We are also bringing the frames by air, this to improve customer service ans delivery times. One thing that we do not control is the currency exchange and that does have a effect on prices. What we are hoping for and is our goal it to create loyalty towards the LBS, keep the spend Dollar here and not spend abroad and naturally to have a very strong precense on the North America market with the right partners. Best regards. Colnago AMerica.


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## dnalsaam

Colnago America said:


> Thank you for your email. The Colnago prices has been reduced considerably after establishing Colnago America. EPS from $6.500 to $5.500 WITH seat post included - C50 from $5.300 to $4.300 with head set & seat post included and CX-1 from $4.400 to $3.200 with seat post included. We are also bringing the frames by air, this to improve customer service ans delivery times. One thing that we do not control is the currency exchange and that does have a effect on prices. What we are hoping for and is our goal it to create loyalty towards the LBS, keep the spend Dollar here and not spend abroad and naturally to have a very strong precense on the North America market with the right partners. Best regards. Colnago AMerica.


Colnago America,

I know the situation that you need to deal with far better than you may even realize, but there are many things that you and Cambiago are simply not addressing. To stop sales through the grey marketers is very simple to achieve, were this a priority. Many other manufacturers have managed to do just that. You have full knowledge of where each and every one of the grey dealers are buying their frames through the serial numbers and you can effectively block every single renegade seller if you want. Nothing is being done as the Colnago family has decided that it is more beneficial to allow the sales to continue. This is their right! Even more so now that there is no longer am independent importer/wholesaler in the US.

Foreign exchange does have an effect on how your prices are situated in the market, but given that the direction of the exchange rates has not been completely one sided over the years, it is only normal that over time, different markets will benefit from fluctuations in the rates. In fact every market should at one time or another be the beneficiary of the fluctuations. Given that the US dollar has seen periods where it has seen gains in the double digits against the Euro over a very short period (less than one month), it is only normal to expect that the American market would be able to at least temporarily benefit from this short term positive disbalance; reality has however shown that even in the presence of such beneficial turn of events the best retail prices here in the US have never been close to competitive against your average European dealer. I am not comparing this to the people working on threadbare margins, but your average dealer. 

Then consider that Colnago favors many if not all of its European distributors with supply and the disbalance is increased even further. When an Italian retailer can stop by in person in Cambiago and pick up a frame from the racks that was initially destined for the US market, there is something wrong. The same when the French rep will never leave the plant in Cambiago without a load of frames in his vehicle, frames that were not pre-ordered and were initially destined to some other customer. The same where the Benelux distributor is able to acquire unpainted frames that are then painted locally and sold at often premium prices under the false impression that they have an inside track to Cambiago...

As for the prices that you list above, these are not realistic as they do not represent the prices at which they were really being sold at. You mention the C-50 as being sold at $5300 but real life numbers were always at closer to $4000 or even below (hence even below the "new" price). Likewise, I am sure that if you have studied the actual average sale price for the EPS to US consumers, you will again see that the "new" price is nothing new. As for the CX-1, to be able to reach the "new" price should not be a problem at all in that you are not dealing with any currency fluctuations as Colnago pays for them in dollars and sells them in dollars...

The true situation is dictated by simple economics. With the present company structure in Italy, Colnago will never be able to mass market product in the US. This means that it only makes sense to extract the greatest benefit from a limited market. Why sell 3000 frames per year in the US (you need to go way way back to see numbers like that!) with all the inherent hassles and challenges, when you can earn just as much money from the sale of 800 frames. There will always be the small group of die hard Colnago fans, with no real monetary worries, who will not flinch at the thought of paying full price for a "limited edition" Ferrari bike or full bore EPS with all the newest jazz. These people are more often than not, buying a reputation and lifestyle statement. For the serious fanatics, who love the Colnago dynamics and ride, let them get the price that is more in keeping with their pocketbooks by going through Bellati or Maestro. It is all good.


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## nightfend

I wonder if Colnago America considers my Colorado Cyclist 2008 Colnago Extreme to be "gray" market. I snapped up the Colnago because it cost $2600 at CC, which I thought was a good price for a carbon frame of Colnago's quality. But, to be honest, I'd never buy a Colnago for $5K. Not with a 2 year warranty.

For $5k I could get a custom built Parlee or Calfee frame.


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## Colnago America

Yes, we do consider a purchase made at Colorado Cyclist as a grey market purchase; therefore there are warranties or crash replacement. Best regards, Colnago America.


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## nightfend

That's ridiculous. I swear if I ever have a warranty issue and you guys don't take care of it, I will do my best to spread the word on how crappy your company is.


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## Colnago America

The situation is very simple - we want to protect, support the Dealer(s) that have a supporter of Colnago in the good and bad times - not only the "Dealers" that can show their support when a former distributor is blowing out their inventory, below cost.
We do support our Dealer base, even if the warranty says 2 years - I personally have approved warranties on Colnago frames that have been 5 or more years past the warranty date - all this because the Consumer purchased his Colnago from an Authorized Dealer and the Dealer has been a strong suporter for years. I think the word you are looking for is loyalty. Sincerely, Colnago America.


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## nightfend

So all of the people that bought a Colnago from a U.S. bike store named Colorado Cyclist will not be allowed warranty service because the bikes they bought are considered gray market?

You realize that nowhere was this made clear when we bought these bikes. I'd think either Colnago or Colorado Cyclist is setting itself up for a nice lawsuit over this.


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## Colnago America

We fully understand your frustration - but that is something that would need to be resolved between the former distributor and Colorado Cyclist, any warranty - We have told ALL that have called us (and there have been quite a few) asking about this situation what our take was on this. Some still did purchase and some did not, definately a personal choice. Those information's must have been related back to Colorado Cyclist (this is our estimate) from the Consumer(s). Sincerely, Colnago America.


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## corky

With all due respect... that is no way to build brand loyalty. It smacks of sour grapes and a way to get back at the dealer with the consumer as piggy iin the middle.

The higher ground and I would imagine, cheaper in the long run would be to honour warranties on frames bought from previous approved dealers. I would think that the loss of new sales, brought about by this poor decision, would easily eclipse any costs of warranty issues.

I don't think this is really getting off on the right foot, but wish Colnago America the best for the future.

I would just like to say that loyalty and respect is a 2 way street and has to be earned.


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## gearguywb

Colnago America said:


> Yes, we do consider a purchase made at Colorado Cyclist as a grey market purchase; therefore there are warranties or crash replacement. Best regards, Colnago America.


One of the craziest things I have ever heard off. As Joe Consumer, looking to drop some serious money on a Colnago...they shop around and lo and behold they check out Colorado Cyclist because they are a very large cycling store and carry the frame the consumer is craving. Short time later said great bike dies for whatever reason....Colnago America says "so sorry, you did not purchase it from an "Authorized Agent". How was the customer to know who was an authorized agent? 

Colnago America acts as if there are local Colnago Dealers around every corner. Simply not so. The majority of us are making significant purchases without ever riding and sometimes without even seeing the frame that we ar plunking down some serious cash for. That leaves no option but to purchase mail order. 

I do not get how CA expects the consumer to know who is authorized to sell their product or not. In the business world the only option that I see is to 1. Warranty all frames for the original buyer or 2. No warranty of any kind for anyone. This grey limbo land that is going on right now is a sure way to drive sales to other brands.


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## fabsroman

nightfend said:


> So all of the people that bought a Colnago from a U.S. bike store named Colorado Cyclist will not be allowed warranty service because the bikes they bought are considered gray market?
> 
> You realize that nowhere was this made clear when we bought these bikes. I'd think either Colnago or Colorado Cyclist is setting itself up for a nice lawsuit over this.


They would both end up being sued. Product defect law runs from the retailer, wholesaler, and manufacturer. Product defect law covers everybody that ever touched the frame.

All this "loyalty" talk regarding "authorized dealers" is a crock. I've bought 5 Colnagos over the past 3 years, and not a single one of them came from an "authorized dealer" that I am aware of. I spent a total of $5,700 for a Cristallo and C50 from Bellatisport and also bought 2 Arte's new off of ebay and a used Oval Krono off of ebay.

Maybe Colnago should be thinking about supporting its "loyal" customers. Without the loyal customers, I'm pretty sure there would be no "loyal" dealers since they have nobody to sell the bikes to.

What really bugs me is how do these unauthorized dealers get their hands on these frames? If Veltec was selling to unauthorized dealers against its wholesaler contract with Colnago, why didn't Colnago go to Court and get an injunction to prevent it. That wouldn't have been too hard to do. Same goes for Maestro and Bellatisport. If Colnago cannot manage its own inventory, why take it out on the consumer.

I was a loyal purchaser of Browning firearms for many years, and then one of their "authorized dealers" that I bought a $1,100 gun from back in 1991 didn't honor my warranty claim. On top of that, Browning never answered a letter I sent them. Back then, I wasn't an attorney. Regardless, I have never bought another Browning firearm since then. It has been 8 Berettas, a Benelli, and 5 Ruger rifles since then, with a couple other that have probably slipped my mind. Never went back to the "authorized" dealer either. Browning and the authorized dealer lost about $20,000+ in gun sales from me. I wouldn't hesitate to do the same thing with Colnago should I ever feel slighted.

The good thing about the internet is that news of bad experiences cant travel pretty fast, along with good news. However, people are more likely to report bad experiences than good ones.


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## fabsroman

corky said:


> I would just like to say that loyalty and respect is a 2 way street and has to be earned.


Exactly. I used to work for employers that demanded loyalty. Funny thing is that they treated their employees terribly. Even a dog stops being loyal if you continually kick him and don't feed him. Same goes for a spouse, and I can think of several other examples.


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## gearguywb

I don't understand this concept of "we will not warranty it because you bought it from x". What does it matter. Isn't it Colnago that is providing the warranty? Are they implying that these are not Colnago bikes. If you bought a new vehicle and had a warranty issue are you required to take it back to the dealer that you purchased it from? I think not.


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## Colnago America

We do warranty any frames purchased from a former Authorized Colnago Dealer - just provide a copy of the proof of purchase, the registration filled out not later than 30 day from purchase (the Colnago book that follows every Colnago) - and we will do our very best to help you or any other Colnago owner. And I agree with you a 100% loyality has to be earned - both ways - can not be expected unless you work for it.
We actually only did loose a few sales to the "none" authorized Colnago Dealers (the former distributor blow out sale) as we (Colnago America) were about $50 cheaper on the retail side - so there are absolutely no sour grapes. As said, we are trying to prove that we are loyal to the Dealers that have chosen Colnago. Safe ride. Colnago America.


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## gearguywb

So how is it that Joe Consumer that walks into a shop, or shops online, is supposed to know who an "authorized dealer" is? Since Colnago controls who they sell frames to you would think they could control this, apparently, very important aspect of their business.

Warranties are issued by the manufacture for defects, they have little to nothing to do with the local representative that they made the purchse from. Typically, as is the case in just about every bike shop, the local person is there to simply help facilitate a successful resolution, not to provide warranty themselves.


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## Colnago America

Check the Colnago America home page, all the authorized Colnago Dealer are listed there.


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## Juggler

The authorised distributor in the UK dumped a whole load of 2008 Colnago stock, which can now be bought online from Wiggle (not listed as an 'official dealer')... EP's and EC's The so called 'grey marketeer' in the UK has been selling Colnago bikes for i understand 20 yrs plus....he sells more and has more knowledge of the product than anyone else in the UK imho. 

I'm not sure of the legalities or this, but that should be immaterial, if the ordinary Joe goes into a shop or buys online a new Colnago frame, then the manufacturer should be upholding any warranty issues irrespective of where it was bought. But i think the risk is small, as i think you would know pretty quick if the frame was not as it should be.

btw i received first class service and a beautiful eps frame, built up by the man himself... no complaints.


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## Colnago America

The Wiggles frame were sold from the former distributor. Breach of contract.


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## nightfend

Well, I haven't built my Colnago Extreme Power up yet, so I don't have a warranty issue - YET.

But I did buy from a U.S. bike store (Colorado Cyclist). It was simply a closeout Colnago. So I find it fascinating that Colnago America can proclaim gray market on a legally purchased frame. This would imply that any time they begin to dislike a dealer, they can call that dealers offerings gray market and not have to support them.

I remember specifically asking Colorado Cyclist about the Colnago warranty, and they said it was 2 years. I actually thought this was pretty poor (to be honest), considering many frame manufacturers offer lifetime warranties. But to find out that Colango will not honor any warranties on bikes bought from former dealers that they don't like is ridiculous.

Definitely going to spread this news around on the Velonews and Cyclingnews forums.


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## Colnago America

We absolutely have NOTHING against Colorado Cyclist - they got an offer from the former distributor and went for it, good for them, the former distributor propably "forgot" to mention the warranty aspect to CC. If they have promised you 2 years of warranty I am sure they will fullfill their promise, via the former distributor. You have a new super Colnago frame, build the frame go riding - it will be great. Safe riding. Colnago America.


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## Juggler

So if Colnago make a duff product... Colnago will take no responsibility for this because the frame was not sold via an 'authourosed dealer'? 

Well then Colango need to work out how anyone in the world can go to www.wiiggle.co.uk
and buy an Extreme Power frame, which apparently Colnago as manufacturers of said frame do not wish to stand up if the the product is faulty...

Like i said before, i am an ordinary guy who wants to buy a bike.... Colango seem to have a politcal and sales channel issue, which you need to sort out. No idea why i should be short changed and expect less service if i buy a new Colnago bike in good faith.


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## Juggler

Sorry mis typed

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/m/cycle/7/Colnago/

My understanding is that Colnago will not honour any manufacturer warranty on these... is this correct?


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## dnalsaam

If anybody is even remotely worried about the warranty on a frame or bike purchased through Colorado Cyclist, I can assure you that Colnago does not have a hope in hell of exempting themselves from covering your bike in the exact same way that they would cover any 'official' import, sold through an authorized dealer. These bikes were imported through legitimate and official channels by an official importer and were sold legally by somebody who had officially imported the item prior to sale to the retailer Colorado Cyclist. If Colnago did not want the bikes to get in the market, all they had to do was repurchase the frames from the former distributor for at least the landed cost of the items. Apparently Colnago was not willing to take this measure as Veltec ended up needing to fire sale the items to CC at below their landed cost. With Colnago not repurchasing the items, by omission, they accepted that Veltec would liquidate them as they saw fit. For Colnago America to now state that no warranty is offered is childish and laughable. Given that so many Colnago bikes end up in the hands of lawyers, I am almost waiting to hear of the reaction that will result from the first case of a request for a warranty replacement being turned down. Luckily for Colnago America, the number of claims on their products is so limited that they will perhaps never even need to worry about the matter.

As far as the bike sold by Wiggle goes, you should be aware that all bikes and frames sold in the European Union must be accompanied by a minimum 2 year warranty. So the much vaunted 2 year Colnago warranty is actually the absolute minimum allowable in Europe. One difference is however that in Europe the retailer must cover the warranty claim to the consumer and get redress from the seller who they purchased the item from, then likewise for each person in the sales chain until you ultimately reach Colnago.


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## dnalsaam

Colnago America said:


> We do warranty any frames purchased from a former Authorized Colnago Dealer - just provide a copy of the proof of purchase, the registration filled out not later than 30 day from purchase (the Colnago book that follows every Colnago) - and we will do our very best to help you or any other Colnago owner. And I agree with you a 100% loyality has to be earned - both ways - can not be expected unless you work for it.
> We actually only did loose a few sales to the "none" authorized Colnago Dealers (the former distributor blow out sale) as we (Colnago America) were about $50 cheaper on the retail side - so there are absolutely no sour grapes. As said, we are trying to prove that we are loyal to the Dealers that have chosen Colnago. Safe ride. Colnago America.



This is total nonsense!

Colnago in Italy is fully aware that American law has clearly stated that you cannot withhold warranty coverage for a registration form that has not been filled out, or filled out after an arbitrary time period. Likewise, the consumer does not need to prove the date of purchase with a receipt. This can be established in any number of other manners. In fact it virtually falls to Colnago to prove that the item is no longer covered by a warranty, rather than the consumer needing to prove it is. Furthermore, it is the liability coverage that is far more important than the warranty coverage. Product liability goes beyond the warranty period.

I'm somewhat curious about the last paragraph above, what exactly do you mean by this? Are you stating that you did not "lose" (loose is an adjective that translates to "los" in Danish) many sales to non-authorized dealers? How did you determine this? And how do you figure that you are protecting your official dealers when you did not right off the bat remove any potential "fire sale" items from even being available? Every single sale made by an unauthorized seller is a sale that was stolen from your dealers, however one that was willingly permitted by yourselves. A sale upon which it should also be pointed out that Colnago has already earned their full mark-up on... If you truly wanted to demonstrate that you were supporting the official dealers, you would have taken part of the earnings that were previously collected by Colnago Italy for teh sale of these fire sale items and passed it on to the official dealers who have seen their existing stock be severely devalued by this price cutting (both due to the fire sale and through your claimed price drops.)


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## g8keyper

I second the dealings with Colnago Authorized Online dealers; wrechscience is awesome and will do a great job at getting you the right bike and fit. R&A same. Buy from someone who is going to give you a warranty on US Products ... it's just better in my opinion if you run into issues.


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## ADEL

*Colnago vs Pinorrelo*

this year I bought both colnago EPS ( from maestro-uk ) and also Pinorrelo prince with superrecord 11 on both. Do not ask me why I bought both, just happend !!. I should say that I like the colnago better even though the Pinorrelo is a bit flashy looking but the colnago fits better, feels right and very agressive racing bike. Give mike at maestro-uk a call he is very helpfull, professional and prompet. I can not be any happier of mike at maestro service, it is also close to $1500-2000 cheaper. Good luck


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## Scott milburn

*wayburn57*

Mike Allen at Maestro Cycles is the go. He is an independant dealer who has sold Colnago for 30 years + he's an ex-racer. I purchased my Extreme Power from him around 2 months ago....fully assembled and very competitively priced. I live in Hong Kong and everything was a breeze.....Mike is the man.


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## Colnago America

You are right..........about the Colnago fit, riding and race feel.
Best regards,
Colnago America.


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## bolt30

I posted the below on another thread and wanted to post it here as well.

I'm an American, stationed in Japan, and just bought a new EPS from a shop in Belfast Ireland. And I don't want to here any garbage about "keeping my money in the U.S." either. I've been serving my country for 20 years and bleed red, white and blue. Here's the bottom line, why the hell would I order my frame from the U.S. when I can order it from an "authorized" dealer, Slane Cycles, for $1,000 less? If a shop in the U.S. could have come even close to the same price I paid from Slane Cycles I would have bought it from the U.S. shop. But I'm no millionaire and a grand is a lot of money. Bottom line is this is the modern day economy and the world of commerce is very, very small thanks to the internet. You want my money in the U.S.? Easy, match the prices that the same frame can be found elsewhere for FAR less. And yes, I did save that much after shipping. Oh, and an EPS frame in Tokyo? The equivalent of about $6,100 :yikes: 

This whole issue of warranty is bad PR for Colnago, in my opinion. Bottom line is this--do you stand behind the product you make or not. What difference does it make who bought what where? Does Colnago, as a company, stand behind their product or not? This whole issue of who bought what where is a joke. I am a huge fan of Patagonia clothing. Why? Their warranty: "We guarantee everything we make. If you are not satisfied with one of our products at the time you receive it, or if one of our products does not perform to your satisfaction, return it to the store you bought it from or to Patagonia for a repair, replacement or refund. Damage due to wear and tear will be repaired at a reasonable charge." How awesome is that? You want die-hard brand loyalty? Easy, stand die-hard behind your brand. A company's warranty speaks volumes about them.

I bought my EPS despite the weak warranty. I started my search for a new bike not committed to any one brand. I bought the EPS because it was the nicest riding frame I tried and fit the best. I think Colnago handles their brand horribly. They are lucky they build nice bikes. Imagine what would be possible if they handled the brand properly and had a real warranty, which they stood behind. Just look at their current website. You still can't get parts of it in English, like the page to register a new frame, and no forum for proud owners to get together. Really things that are considered standard these days. Compare that to Cervelo's website and you will see there is no comparison. Not really acceptable for a company in this day and age.

Again, they are lucky they have built up a ton of good will by building outstanding bikes. But someone in Campiago better start asking how long that good will is going to last.

As for the bike? It's an amazing piece of work, no doubt. I have about 500 miles on it and it is by far the nicest bike I have ever ridden.

By the way, for anyone interested, my experience with Slane Cycles was outstanding. Great prices, communication, knowledge, and damn friendly guys that will talk to you forever on the phone and answer any questions. I bought the frame and Record group from them and saved at least $2,000. Again, that savings includes shipping, exchange rates, etc.


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## MG Racing

I have bought a lot of Colnago bikes through the years. I probably bought 3 when Trialtir was the importer, 2 from Veltec, and 4 or 5 from Mike at Maestro. Rather than playing all these games about authorized or un-authorized dealers, I am just going to get my bikes from Mike. I currently am getting a new one in the works. His policy is simple, if there is a problem, he will take care of it, end of story. To make it a sweeter deal, he is significantly cheaper than the US prices. 

If you want a Colnago go to http://www.maestro-uk.com and send Mike an email. If needed, he can help with sizing or recommending the best frame for your needs. You will get a response the next day and get a great bike at a great price, with perfect customer service. 

Hey Colnago America, if you want my business, match Mike’s price and treat me as good as he does. Until that happens, I can’t justify giving you my business.


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## robert

I live in upper NW D.C. While I like window shopping at the Bike Pro Shop, I have bought my Colnago framesets on line in the winter time (when the are on sale) and had City Bikes assemble them.


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## koyaanisqatsi

*boysa, it's the exchange rate*



boysa said:


> I'll support my "US based LBS" when they start charging prices comparable with the rest of the free world. Paying double for everything is not my idea of a good time. For the price difference between US based retailers and those overseas (authorized included!) I'd rather buy from the UK and if there's a problem, heck I can fly myself and the frame over there with the $$ I've saved.


The dollar is weak right now, esp. compared to the Euro. So imports are expensive. The good side is that U.S. exports are relatively strong. But that doesn't help you when you want to buy a European bike at a LBS in the U.S.


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## koyaanisqatsi

*Colnago's attitudes*



nightfend said:


> Well, I haven't built my Colnago Extreme Power up yet, so I don't have a warranty issue - YET.
> 
> But I did buy from a U.S. bike store (Colorado Cyclist). It was simply a closeout Colnago. So I find it fascinating that Colnago America can proclaim gray market on a legally purchased frame. This would imply that any time they begin to dislike a dealer, they can call that dealers offerings gray market and not have to support them.
> 
> I remember specifically asking Colorado Cyclist about the Colnago warranty, and they said it was 2 years. I actually thought this was pretty poor (to be honest), considering many frame manufacturers offer lifetime warranties. But to find out that Colango will not honor any warranties on bikes bought from former dealers that they don't like is ridiculous.
> 
> Definitely going to spread this news around on the Velonews and Cyclingnews forums.


nightfend, you will find that most of Colnago's business practices are "questionable". The more stones you turn over, the more slimy things you find. And I keep hearing about retailers dropping Colnagos. That's why I jumped to Pinarello. Rather than purchase an EPS, I purchased a Dogma. The Colnago frame warranty is only two years, and the Pinarello frame warranty is only two years. Two years is a very short warranty period and does not inspire confidence in these frames.

A couple years ago I twice warned a fairly large company about their business practices. I told them that their business practices were driving not only me, but many others I knew to shop elsewhere. Now, that company is in bankruptcy and all their stores will be closed and/or sold to someone else. But the company is dead. Colnago deserves the same fate.

k.


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## ghostryder

ADEL said:


> this year I bought both colnago EPS ( from maestro-uk ) and also Pinorrelo prince with superrecord 11 on both. Do not ask me why I bought both, just happend !!. I should say that I like the colnago better even though the Pinorrelo is a bit flashy looking but the colnago fits better, feels right and very agressive racing bike. Give mike at maestro-uk a call he is very helpfull, professional and prompet. I can not be any happier of mike at maestro service, it is also close to $1500-2000 cheaper. Good luck



I am also deciding between the two. Can you, maybe do a little review.


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## 27davidson

ghostryder said:


> I am also deciding between the two. Can you, maybe do a little review.


If you are thinking about buying a Colnago in the U.S. from a LBS, maybe you should hold off for a while or better yet, go with the Pinarello. Without going into a long explanation at the moment, in a nutshell Colnago is offering horrendous customer service (or no customer service) for those who have warranty issues with their frames. More about this later in a separate thread.


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## ghostryder

Thank you. I am leaning that way.


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## koyaanisqatsi

*Go for the Pinarello*



ghostryder said:


> Thank you. I am leaning that way.


I was seriously looking at the 2010 Colnago EPS...even had an order placed. But after getting the run-around on what colors are available and from whom, an issue that Colnago failed to resolve, I decided on the 2010 Pinarello Dogma 60.1. I just didn't like how Colnago was doing business. I've emailed Colnago America and they have not had the courtesy to respond.


----------



## Jbartmc

*Give Details if you have them*



27davidson said:


> If you are thinking about buying a Colnago in the U.S. from a LBS, maybe you should hold off for a while or better yet, go with the Pinarello. Without going into a long explanation at the moment, in a nutshell Colnago is offering horrendous customer service (or no customer service) for those who have warranty issues with their frames. More about this later in a separate thread.


If you have details give them. More later is nothing short of a teaser without anything to back it up. Otherwise, anyone should just ride the bike before buying to make the best choice.


----------



## ghostryder

koyaanisqatsi said:


> I was seriously looking at the 2010 Colnago EPS...even had an order placed. But after getting the run-around on what colors are available and from whom, an issue that Colnago failed to resolve, I decided on the 2010 Pinarello Dogma 60.1. I just didn't like how Colnago was doing business. I've emailed Colnago America and they have not had the courtesy to respond.


How does the dogma ride. Is it the bike everyone says?


----------



## koyaanisqatsi

*ghostryder: Can't answer the question.*



ghostryder said:


> How does the dogma ride. Is it the bike everyone says?


I've only recently ordered it, with a ship date of 2/19/2010. Wrench Science will probably ship sooner. But I live in western NY State and the weather doesn't permit bike riding until April or even latter in the year. I probably shouldn't have moved back here, but here I am.

In the Pinarello forums, you can find some posts by riders with some time on the Dogma. Try the " DOGMA 60.1 vs PRINCE - FULL REVIEW" thread. They all like it, to varying degrees. But opinions vary. In the Pinarello forums, dissent is allowed. While no one has said the Dogma 60.1 is not a very good bike, some question its superiority over the Prince. There is no consensus yet...so few have experience with the Dogma. Like the EPS, it's hard to find reviews for it. You can find an Editor's Review, as well as one rider's review at Bicycling Magazine @ http://www.bicycling.com/gear/detail/0,7989,s1-16-156-2500-0,00.html

But the Pinarello folks are not like the Colnago snobs in this forum...you'll get an honest opinion from most folk in the Pinarello forums and you won't get flamed fo criticizing Colnago. I dumped the Colnago EPS because of their business practices...if enough people did as I did, Colnago would straighten themselves out and fly right. I have an almost local bke shop that sells Colnagos, but they aren't listed as an authorized dealer at the Colnago web site. They are a reputable bike shop, but Colnago says they don't honor warranties from "grey market" bike shops. 

After I get my 2010 Dogma 60.1 and spend some time on it, I'll write my own review oriented towards hardcore recreational riders, which is how I see myself. I'm not a racer. I may do some club riding and centuries next summer. We'll see.

If you are a real traditionalist, you may be better off on a high-end steel frame bike with the best available components. Waterford, Cinelli, Pegoretti, and try the people at http://www.smartcycles.com/ for many others. Titanium (light and unbreakable), there is Litespeed and Lynskey among others. An LBS can custom fit the frame for you and Lynskey will manufacture that frame and paint it in just about any color and paint scheme you can imagine (any many you can't). Magnesium, Paketa. I'm a bit confused by the jump to carbon frames, but I've become part of that herd.

Good luck,
k.


----------



## fabsroman

koyaanisqatsi said:


> I've only recently ordered it, with a ship date of 2/19/2010. Wrench Science will probably ship sooner. But I live in western NY State and the weather doesn't permit bike riding until April or even latter in the year. I probably shouldn't have moved back here, but here I am.
> 
> In the Pinarello forums, you can find some posts by riders with some time on the Dogma. Try the " DOGMA 60.1 vs PRINCE - FULL REVIEW" thread. They all like it, to varying degrees. But opinions vary. In the Pinarello forums, dissent is allowed. While no one has said the Dogma 60.1 is not a very good bike, some question its superiority over the Prince. There is no consensus yet...so few have experience with the Dogma. Like the EPS, it's hard to find reviews for it. You can find an Editor's Review, as well as one rider's review at Bicycling Magazine @ http://www.bicycling.com/gear/detail/0,7989,s1-16-156-2500-0,00.html
> 
> But the Pinarello folks are not like the Colnago snobs in this forum...you'll get an honest opinion from most folk in the Pinarello forums and you won't get flamed fo criticizing Colnago. I dumped the Colnago EPS because of their business practices...if enough people did as I did, Colnago would straighten themselves out and fly right. I have an almost local bke shop that sells Colnagos, but they aren't listed as an authorized dealer at the Colnago web site. They are a reputable bike shop, but Colnago says they don't honor warranties from "grey market" bike shops.
> 
> After I get my 2010 Dogma 60.1 and spend some time on it, I'll write my own review oriented towards hardcore recreational riders, which is how I see myself. I'm not a racer. I may do some club riding and centuries next summer. We'll see.
> 
> If you are a real traditionalist, you may be better off on a high-end steel frame bike with the best available components. Waterford, Cinelli, Pegoretti, and try the people at http://www.smartcycles.com/ for many others. Titanium (light and unbreakable), there is Litespeed and Lynskey among others. An LBS can custom fit the frame for you and Lynskey will manufacture that frame and paint it in just about any color and paint scheme you can imagine (any many you can't). Magnesium, Paketa. I'm a bit confused by the jump to carbon frames, but I've become part of that herd.
> 
> Good luck,
> k.


Speaking of steel, I am looking at a Tommasini Tecno in Italian colors in lieu of the Colnago Master X Light in Saronni. It is a tough decision, especially since Tommasini still makes all their frames in Italy, it is $600 cheaper, and they offer a myriad of paint schemes/colors.


----------



## koyaanisqatsi

*Tommasini*



fabsroman said:


> Speaking of steel, I am looking at a Tommasini Tecno in Italian colors in lieu of the Colnago Master X Light in Saronni. It is a tough decision, especially since Tommasini still makes all their frames in Italy, it is $600 cheaper, and they offer a myriad of paint schemes/colors.


Tommasini carries a full line of frames/materials. The Tecno has the nice clean, traditional lines of steel frame bikes. I'm not sure where you'd get one in the U.S. There must be a retailer for them someplace, but a quick search reveals none.

Thinking of bikes with the snow flying and the temperatures not leaving the teens tomorrow. Something wrong with me. I should be worrying about my water pipes freezing.


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## jjmstang

The US importer of Tommasini is in Lancaster, PA.

http://www.redroseimports.com/


-John


----------



## koyaanisqatsi

*Yeah, I saw that...*



jjmstang said:


> The US importer of Tommasini is in Lancaster, PA.
> 
> http://www.redroseimports.com/
> 
> 
> -John



at the Tommasini Web site but did not follow up. Are they a retailer as well? I suppose I could check that out for myself, and if they are not, they can certainly point me to a retailer.

Thanks,
k.


----------



## fabsroman

koyaanisqatsi said:


> Tommasini carries a full line of frames/materials. The Tecno has the nice clean, traditional lines of steel frame bikes. I'm not sure where you'd get one in the U.S. There must be a retailer for them someplace, but a quick search reveals none.
> 
> Thinking of bikes with the snow flying and the temperatures not leaving the teens tomorrow. Something wrong with me. I should be worrying about my water pipes freezing.


Red Rose Imports in PA, not too far from me in Maryland and pretty close to some of the races I do, is the importer for Tommasini. It has chromed lugs on the headtube, which looks pretty nice.

Heck, I have been in Florida for a week now with a bike at my disposal and have not ridden a single mile because I have either been sick or the weather has been crappy. Even brought down a nice set of tubular wheels to use on my bike down here and it isn't going to happen since we are leaving tomorrow. Such is life I guess.


----------



## koyaanisqatsi

*Lancaster, PA*



fabsroman said:


> Red Rose Imports in PA, not too far from me in Maryland and pretty close to some of the races I do, is the importer for Tommasini. It has chromed lugs on the headtube, which looks pretty nice.
> 
> Heck, I have been in Florida for a week now with a bike at my disposal and have not ridden a single mile because I have either been sick or the weather has been crappy. Even brought down a nice set of tubular wheels to use on my bike down here and it isn't going to happen since we are leaving tomorrow. Such is life I guess.


I've been thru Lancaster. Recall that I lived in Northern VA out towards Leesburg. I had/have friends who live about 30 mi West of Phily. Amish country, like where I live in WNY. Red Rose carries other Italian-manufactured bikes as well. Their Web site lists retailers I think...might be on closer to you. Like a shop in Falls Church, VA?

Sorry about the weather you're experiencing in FL. Most of the U.S. is having bad weather. El Nino effect I guess. Well...I'm out the door to shovel snow b4 it gets too deep. I sometimes go out in the middle of the night (1:00 to 3:00 AM) to shovel...it's so peaceful. Almost enjoyable. With the right bike, I could ride in this.

k.


----------



## iyeoh

fabsroman said:


> Speaking of steel, I am looking at a Tommasini Tecno in Italian colors in lieu of the Colnago Master X Light in Saronni. It is a tough decision, especially since Tommasini still makes all their frames in Italy, it is $600 cheaper, and they offer a myriad of paint schemes/colors.


Fabs,

My riding partner when I was in grad school in NYC rode a Tommasini Diamante EL-OS of the same exact size as me but with shorter stem, and I had prolonged use of that bike. Tommasinis are beautiful, are well made and ride like a charm. They have this relaxed smoothness that is alluring. They are, however, different from Colnagos and do not ride/feel anything like Colnagos. I'm not saying that it is a bad thing (trying to be as impartial as I can be). Just that they are different, so be advised. (you know where my biasness lie). Incidently, I didn't marry the Tommasin-riding chick.. but I married the Colnago-riding chick lol

Cheers.


----------



## 27davidson

27davidson said:


> If you are thinking about buying a Colnago in the U.S. from a LBS, maybe you should hold off for a while or better yet, go with the Pinarello. Without going into a long explanation at the moment, in a nutshell Colnago is offering horrendous customer service (or no customer service) for those who have warranty issues with their frames. More about this later in a separate thread.


I retract my previous comments about Colnago and Colnago USA. Thanks to my LBS, everything is beautiful again.


----------



## fabsroman

27davidson said:


> I retract my previous comments about Colnago and Colnago USA. Thanks to my LBS, everything is beautiful again.


So, what exactly happened? Was Colnago giving you problems about something, but your LBS was able to smooth it over? Who was the LBS? Was it one of the LBS's in Maryland/DC? Was it Bicycle Pro Shop in Georgetown? Give us at least a little bit of the info behind the statement 3 weeks ago and how it was resolved.


----------



## koyaanisqatsi

*Please explain*



27davidson said:


> I retract my previous comments about Colnago and Colnago USA. Thanks to my LBS, everything is beautiful again.


It sounds like you are thanking your LBS for making everything right. What did Colnago do to make things right? IMO, Colnago and Colnago U.S. still treat customers like a baby treats his diapers.

k.


----------



## fabsroman

koyaanisqatsi said:


> It sounds like your are thanking LBS for making everything right. What did Colnago do to make things right? IMO, Colnago and Colnago U.S. still treat customers like a baby treats his diapers.
> 
> k.


That is the same thing I took from that post. It didn't really leave me with a warm fuzzy feeling for Colnago or Colnago America.


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## Karbon Kev

27davidson, please give us details.


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## jjmstang

enquiring minds want to know


----------



## saba

I just wanted to add to this discussion as I am a new Colnago owner. I have zero experience on the warranty side but can give some insight into the purchasing of a new CX-1. The frame came from R&A cycles, due to 1.They are AUTHORIZED on Colnago USA,( it was not that hard to find that information) btw 2. The price for a 2009 CX-1 frame in many sizes and colors is as competitive as I could find globally 3. Was able to get some help on the final purchase price. The bike was paid for on Friday was in DC on Sat but not delivered till Monday. IMHO the packaging from R&A left a little to be desired resulting in the smallest of paint chips on the top tube. You would need a very thorough inspection to see it, but its there. I am not in the slightest bit concerned on that end. However, the package did come with and incomplete fork. The locking plug inside the fork was a no-show. I placed a call Monday and an email in attempt to find this part. I was assured that the part would be on its way to me, but no tracking number nor confirmation that this part will be sent has been forthcoming..that is the bummer part but it still might show.
Now onto the good stuff
I took the frame on Tuesday to the guys at The Bicycle Pro Shop with my point-man as Taylor. Today the bike is complete and built by an AUTHORIZED dealer, who went out of their way to treat me and my bike with the utmost respect and thoroughness. Every little detail was explained, discussed, and a cost effective solution was agreed upon. Today for pickup I was greeted upon entrance by Noel, Taylor, and the rest of the staff with my first name and a hello. The spirit in the shop was one of appreciation and mutual interest in my new purchase. I feel confident in reporting that if any future problems were to occur with my bike this crew would diligently support my Colnago purchase


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## 27davidson

I absolutely agree with your assessment of the Bicycle Pro Shop in Georgetown. They are the epitome of what a LBS should be - a knowledgeable, friendly sales staff and great mechanics. Everyone there and in no particular order - Taylor, Tony, Noel, Will, Colin, Tom, Luis, Bret et al and of course Serge, the owner, knows their stuff and will go out of the way to assist their customers. A lot of bike stores have come and gone in D.C. but the Pro Shop is still here. That should say it all to any prospective customers.

As for the C50 frame warranty issues I mentioned previously, I have to thank the Bicycle Pro Shop for seeing to it that the issue was resolved; Colnago America eventually cowboyed up and did the right thing and more but it took a very long time and I'm not even sure that the delay was their fault. As for Colnago Italy, they need to realize that we, the North American riders who buy their bikes, love their Colnagos and help promote them to other riders who ask about them (which is all of the time). We do a lot of free advertising for Colnago and are willing to do so; just be there for us and quickly when we have warranty issues and your sales in North America will grow as a result.


----------



## iyeoh

saba said:


> I just wanted to add to this discussion as I am a new Colnago owner. I have zero experience on the warranty side but can give some insight into the purchasing of a new CX-1. The frame came from R&A cycles, due to 1.They are AUTHORIZED on Colnago USA,( it was not that hard to find that information) btw 2. The price for a 2009 CX-1 frame in many sizes and colors is as competitive as I could find globally 3. Was able to get some help on the final purchase price. The bike was paid for on Friday was in DC on Sat but not delivered till Monday. IMHO the packaging from R&A left a little to be desired resulting in the smallest of paint chips on the top tube. You would need a very thorough inspection to see it, but its there. I am not in the slightest bit concerned on that end. However, the package did come with and incomplete fork. The locking plug inside the fork was a no-show. I placed a call Monday and an email in attempt to find this part. I was assured that the part would be on its way to me, but no tracking number nor confirmation that this part will be sent has been forthcoming..that is the bummer part but it still might show.
> Now onto the good stuff
> I took the frame on Tuesday to the guys at The Bicycle Pro Shop with my point-man as Taylor. Today the bike is complete and built by an AUTHORIZED dealer, who went out of their way to treat me and my bike with the utmost respect and thoroughness. Every little detail was explained, discussed, and a cost effective solution was agreed upon. Today for pickup I was greeted upon entrance by Noel, Taylor, and the rest of the staff with my first name and a hello. The spirit in the shop was one of appreciation and mutual interest in my new purchase. I feel confident in reporting that if any future problems were to occur with my bike this crew would diligently support my Colnago purchase



Congratulations on your new bike!

Now for the analysis on R&A  

The frame came in a box, right? Maybe a little skimpy on the packaging materials, but you got yourself a box with a bike in it. The bike has 8 tubes put together and a fork. May be in alignment;may not be in alignment. May ride straight; may not ride straight. Who knows. You got a bike in a box.

You have to understand the New Yawk mentality. That paint chip on the top tube. That's customization! Now you know which bike is yours. Otherwise, you won't be able to tell the bikes apart!

As for the incomplete fork, they probably ripped out a lockring plug from anotherbox. Now it magically becomes the next guy's problem! Pass the buck. That's the New Yorker solution to everything! lol

Hey, you got a deal on that frame. Who knows where the frame came from or whose truck it fell out of, but it sure is cheap lol They probably threw in a whole lot of impatience, bad attitude and foul language in for free as well lol Whudda-yawant? Fuhgetboutit!  

I'm just joking. I've been buying from R&A for the last 26 years, and my last seven bikes were all built there.


----------



## saba

and the part from R&A showed up today. To quote the wife working with folks at her job in NYC "NYer are all like that, short without much of explanation but they get the job done." So have nothing but good things to say about both shops who helped me secure my bike. A dab of Testors does wonders


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## jetvagabond

I couldn't agree more with the last couple of reviews of the Bicycle Pro Shop in Georgetown. I bought a C50 from them last year and had them build it up as well. What a fantastic bike and an even more fantastic shop. They were very helpful and patient with all of my many questions and concerns. Their follow on service is truly second to none. It may be a smidgen more expensive to buy from a great local bike shop like the Pro Shop rather than from an online vendor, but you're getting so much more than just a frame and components for your money. If you're shopping for a Colnago in the DC area, do yourself a favor and drop in and say hello to the crew there.


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## Clevor

If you are DOD overseas, kudos need to be given to both R&A Cycles and Competitive Cyclist, although I think the latter no longer sells Colnagos. Both offer a 10% discount for shipments to FPO AP. I got my Deda Campione bar from CC to take a bit of hurt off the $400 list price.

10% may not sound like a lot, but on a $5,500 EPS, at least it will knock off $550 . That still won't be as cheap as what Bolt30 got his frame for, and he qualifies for the discount. I believe you can get the frame for around $3,500-$3,900 from certain vendors in Europe, last time I checked.

I got my C50 in 2005 from TotalCycling.com, for around $2,950. Maestro was a few hundred dollars more. I had no choice here since I wanted the WC scheme, and not many dealers had it. The frame was $4,000 in the U.S. at the time.

When I was living in mainland Japan, one of the LBSs there said he refuses to sell Colnagos, because he didn't like the distribution practices.

If you check the latest issue of Velonews, they have a Buying Guide issue. The 2010 EPS is listed at $6,800 list price . I think that is more so U.S. vendors can say that at $5,500, you are getting a discount off list price :ciappa:.


----------



## fabsroman

jetvagabond said:


> I couldn't agree more with the last couple of reviews of the Bicycle Pro Shop in Georgetown. I bought a C50 from them last year and had them build it up as well. What a fantastic bike and an even more fantastic shop. They were very helpful and patient with all of my many questions and concerns. Their follow on service is truly second to none. It may be a smidgen more expensive to buy from a great local bike shop like the Pro Shop rather than from an online vendor, but you're getting so much more than just a frame and components for your money. If you're shopping for a Colnago in the DC area, do yourself a favor and drop in and say hello to the crew there.


I seriously doubt it was a smidgen unless you got one of the blow out frames from the previous Colnago distributor. I want to say Veltec, but I think that was the one before this one. If I am not mistaken, they were only the distributor for a year or two an then Colnago America took over. Anyway, they let their inventory go pretty cheap in I believe the fall, and a lot of people found some pretty good deals in the US on Colnagos at that time. When I bought my first Colnago, a Cristallo, the Bicycle Pro Shop, Wrench Science, and Competitive Cyclist were selling it for $3,600, yet I got it delivered to my doorstep for $2,500. When I bought my C50, Wrench Science and Competitive Cyclist had it listed for $4,400, yet I got it delivered for somehwere around $3,200. Neither of those differences are a smidgen in my book.

Price an EPS from Bicycle Pro Shop. Let me know what you get as a result and I will do the internet research to find the cheapest, reputable price out there.


----------



## colnago italy

Clevor said:


> If you check the latest issue of Velonews, they have a Buying Guide issue. The 2010 EPS is listed at $6,800 list price . I think that is more so U.S. vendors can say that at $5,500, you are getting a discount off list price :ciappa:.



The official price for the EPS (frame, fork, headset and seatpost) is $5,500


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## JeremyP

You gotta love the price discrimination of the Colnago EPS framesets. Anyone in the know will buy it at the lowest cost (from a simple internet search - lower prices if you really search):
USD$5,500 in the US as per post above. USD$4,000 in the UK. USD$6,600 in AUS.

Regarding warranty of an international frame, it's not needed, just buy bike/race insurance. Approx USD$400 per year.


----------



## fabsroman

JeremyP said:


> You gotta love the price discrimination of the Colnago EPS framesets. Anyone in the know will buy it at the lowest cost (from a simple internet search - lower prices if you really search):
> USD$5,500 in the US as per post above. USD$4,000 in the UK. USD$6,600 in AUS.
> 
> Regarding warranty of an international frame, it's not needed, just buy bike/race insurance. Approx USD$400 per year.


Yep, the price difference is nuts.

Is that $400 per year per bike for the insurance? If so, I'd rather self insure. With 6 bikes, that would almost be a brand new frameset every 2 years at the full MSRP of some of these high end frames. In 2 years that would equal what I paid to build my entire Cristallo up with Record 10 back in early 2007.

Like I told the guy at Bicycle Pro Shop when he gave me the one year warranty for buying overseas versus a two year warranty for buying in the states. If my Cristallo has a warranty issue after the first year and cracks in half, and Colnago would not do anything for me, I would take the $1,100 I saved on buying the frame overseas and buy a new frame from a different manufacturer. Ultimately, it comes down to the level of risk that one can afford. With that said, I do not race on any of my high end frames, just the ones I can get on e-bay for less than $1,000.


----------



## JeremyP

Yes, that is per year cost. If you're going to race crits on the EPS, or go on rides where people are known to go down, I'd recommend getting it. You will know in the back of your mind if that's you ;-).

Personally, I'm not concerned that an overseas EPS or Dogma frameset will crack or break from just riding along, unless you're a big guy or total noob, like the guys with chainring marks on their calves. The same price discrimination occurs with Pinarello. It was slightly more expensive than the EPS at the cheapest place I saw it, but considering it made a round trip that was expected :-D.

Full MSRP, I'd only pay that for a custom/limited/exclusive edition colour scheme like Krakens.


----------



## Clevor

colnago italy said:


> The official price for the EPS (frame, fork, headset and seatpost) is $5,500


But from Colnago America, on this thread, a post dated 5-26-2009: 

"Thank you for your email. The Colnago prices has been reduced considerably after establishing Colnago America. EPS from $6.500 to $5.500 WITH seat post included - C50 from $5.300 to $4.300 with head set & seat post included and CX-1 from $4.400 to $3.200 with seat post included. We are also bringing the frames by air, this to improve customer service ans delivery times. One thing that we do not control is the currency exchange and that does have a effect on prices. What we are hoping for and is our goal it to create loyalty towards the LBS, keep the spend Dollar here and not spend abroad and naturally to have a very strong precense on the North America market with the right partners. Best regards. Colnago AMerica."


----------



## koyaanisqatsi

*Colnago Distribution Practices.*



Clevor said:


> <SNIP>
> 
> When I was living in mainland Japan, one of the LBSs there said he refuses to sell Colnagos, because he didn't like the distribution practices.
> 
> If you check the latest issue of Velonews, they have a Buying Guide issue. The 2010 EPS is listed at $6,800 list price . I think that is more so U.S. vendors can say that at $5,500, you are getting a discount off list price :ciappa:.


Colnago's distribution practices here in the U.S. are exactly why I went with a 2010 Pinarello Dogma 60.1 rather than the EPS that I'd already put a down payment on. I'm puzzled as to why Colnago does things the way they do...their behavior must alienate both retailers and potential customers. In any event, Colnago's behavior is not now and never will be an issue with me. Yeah...they really ticked me off.

As for the increased price of the EPS, that may very well be due to the weak $ wrt the Euro, not that I've paid much attention to recent changes in the exchange rate. Perhaps Colnago could no longer hold the $ price down...I'm just guessing. Next step for Colnago is to have their frames made in China, but they already done that in the past.


----------



## Clevor

fabsroman said:


> Like I told the guy at Bicycle Pro Shop when he gave me the one year warranty for buying overseas versus a two year warranty for buying in the states. If my Cristallo has a warranty issue after the first year and cracks in half, and Colnago would not do anything for me, I would take the $1,100 I saved on buying the frame overseas and buy a new frame from a different manufacturer. Ultimately, it comes down to the level of risk that one can afford. With that said, I do not race on any of my high end frames, just the ones I can get on e-bay for less than $1,000.


My beater, a.k.a., training bike is a Giant TCR Comp I. They have a lifetime warrantee and are so common you can take one into any LBS that sells Giants and get a warrantee claim fulfilled. It doesn't have to be the LBS you bought it.

Go on the Pinarello forum and hear about all the runaround when trying to file a warrantee claim. It's bad enough with a measly 2- year warrantee anyway. That old Dogma made of magnesium tubing? And with a two year warrantee? Wait till that anti-corrosion coating wears off and see what happens to that $5,000 frame. It will be: too bad, sooo sad.

And prices on high end frames are going up. 2-3 years ago they topped out at $4,000, now check De Rosa too, it is easily >$5,000 and according to that Velonews buyer's guide, frame prices are hitting the $6K stratosphere. This is for frames being made in the Far East (Pinarello) or using non-Italian material.

Prices in road cycling are way too high. It's the same with prices on groupsets. Building a bike for my trainer, no way I can spend less than $900 as I insist on Ultegra or Chorus (actually, make that Althena) minimum. If I went back into hot rodding, highest cost single item there might be a Vortech supercharger at around $3-4K. When I was overclocking computers, maybe a Prometaria phase change system at $2K max. Here, it's $5.5K just for a bike frame! $2.2K for a groupset. $2.5K for Boras, etc. etc.


----------



## fabsroman

Clevor said:


> My beater, a.k.a., training bike is a Giant TCR Comp I. They have a lifetime warrantee and are so common you can take one into any LBS that sells Giants and get a warrantee claim fulfilled. It doesn't have to be the LBS you bought it.
> 
> Go on the Pinarello forum and hear about all the runaround when trying to file a warrantee claim. It's bad enough with a measly 2- year warrantee anyway. That old Dogma made of magnesium tubing? And with a two year warrantee? Wait till that anti-corrosion coating wears off and see what happens to that $5,000 frame. It will be: too bad, sooo sad.
> 
> And prices on high end frames are going up. 2-3 years ago they topped out at $4,000, now check De Rosa too, it is easily >$5,000 and according to that Velonews buyer's guide, frame prices are hitting the $6K stratosphere. This is for frames being made in the Far East (Pinarello) or using non-Italian material.
> 
> Prices in road cycling are way too high. It's the same with prices on groupsets. Building a bike for my trainer, no way I can spend less than $900 as I insist on Ultegra or Chorus (actually, make that Althena) minimum. If I went back into hot rodding, highest cost single item there might be a Vortech supercharger at around $3-4K. When I was overclocking computers, maybe a Prometaria phase change system at $2K max. Here, it's $5.5K just for a bike frame! $2.2K for a groupset. $2.5K for Boras, etc. etc.


Prices in road cycling aren't too high if you just want to get something and get into the sport. I think you can find a pretty decent bike for $2,000, just like you can find a decent computer for a lesser sum than $2,000. Now, if you want the top of the line everything, then it costs more money. Yeah, buying a Vortech costs $3K to $4K, but is that really all the motor work you would do to the car and what about frame strengthening work, suspension work, and rear end work that you would need to do. Car mods for speed can get really, really expensive, especially when things break or you wreck the car. I know something about the car side of things since I own an 89 Mustang 5.0. I've always wanted to put a 4 bolt main motor in it with TFS heads and a blower. Problem is all of that runs close to $10,000 and that does not take into account better brakes at $5,000, pan hard rods, subframe connects, chassis brace in the motor compartment, or beefing up the 8.8" rear-end.

I built a 2003 Cannondale CAAD5 frame with Veloce and Centaur and some cheap clinchers for about $1,500. It gets the job done when I am in Florida visiting the in-laws.


----------



## WrenchScienceCliff

*Late Reply from Authorized Colnago Dealer*

Let's talk about Maestro, Pro Bike Kit, and other non-authorized Colnago dealers around the world.

This is a very late reply (March 3, 2010) to the original postings about Maestro, Bellati, et al, but my goal is to throw in my two cents, since the post is still being read. Clearly, I'm outnumbered by other posters here who will disagree with me.

I've admittedly mixed facts with opinions. I should acknowledge that Colnago and the Euro market have changed a bit since the original postings, but want to put some updated information from a US dealer concerned about these issues. Vested interests? Certainly.
Would love to hear some replies, but do not want to get bogged down in disrespectful or epic flaming posts, nor off-topic rants. Bottom line is this: I may disagree with some previous posters here, but I'm not here to attack anyone's character. I appreciate the same from others.


1. Colnago does not authorize any distributor to paint frames. Period. If Codagex, the Benelux distributor that sells Colnagos to Maestro et al, is painting frames, they are also voiding the warranty.
2. Colnago doesn't appreciate the reputation these shops are bringing the company around the world, i.e. the idea that all other dealers are charging more (i.e. the mandated MSRP) simply because they are "greedy." 
3. If US shops sold their Colnagos at Maestro's et al's prices, we would all go out of business because we would be losing (bleeding) money on every sale. So how do they sell so cheaply (i.e. below US wholesale cost)? I don't know. But Colnago doesn't know either...does that tell you anything?
4. If the price is too good to be true, it probably is. But if you don't believe that, I'd like to sell you a genuine Rolex watch for $300.
5. There is always a shop that can undercut the next guy's price. Really, if you're looking for discount bikes, Colnago probably isn't the right company for you.
6. What is your time worth? What is it worth to have the buying process be stress-free and even fun? To get a bike whose background you can trust? Is it worth anything to have a guaranteed fit? To have an accountable and accessible shop? To support your local economy?
7. The fact that these unauthorized shops are the bane of Colnago's existence might tell you something: they don't have a direct line on Colnagos now, and more importantly, in the future they are very unlikely to have any capacity to support a Colnago warranty.


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## jjmstang

Good post WS.

1) If these dealers are so-called un-authorized, how are they getting the frames ?
2) doesn't Colnago know where the frames are going ? I guess they don't
3) If like you say these shops are the bane of Colnagos existence, wouldn't it make sense for Colnago to shut them down ?

IMHO I think Colnago doesn't give a damn about where/how/who seals the frames as long as they are making money. They might say one thing out of the right side of thier mouth and then say another out of the left side as do alot of businesses.

Comes down to one thing :
The almighty DOLLAR/EURO/FRANC or whatever currency is being played.

Not a sermon
Just MHO is all.


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## WrenchScienceCliff

1) We don't really know how they're getting the frames, especially at such absurdly cheap prices. That is a key part of the problem and what raises the most suspicion.
2) "Law of the Free Market" in EU actually makes the label of "Authorized Dealer" not legally binding. In other words, a corner grocery store in the EU could sell Colnagos if they wanted to...and for any amount too. The result is that the distribution chain has become very hard to trace and Colnago has less quality control over which European shops can sell their products. Colnago cares very much about questions of where/how/who, my concern is that buyers looking for crazy discounts are not asking these same questions.
3) It's not easy to simply "shut them down." We'll just have to sit tight and see what happens next. I anticipate that in a few years these gray market dealers will not have any access to Colnagos and thus won't be able to support today's buyers.


----------



## Juggler

I bought my EPS from Maestro last year. 

Mike Perry personally built up the bike for me. He was very responsive on replying to my emails and queries about the bike and build. The wait for the frame was just as he predicted. 

When i had a few technical issues last year refitting the fork and stem (my fault not the bikes), he provided me with the know how i needed as soon as i contacted him. Not sure i would have got that sort of customer service from a larger or less-specialised retailer. 

So no complaints whatsoever on the bike, price or the service i received. 

Price wise I understand that Maesto get their stock from a continental Europe distributor rather than via the UK distributor and then i presume they can make their margin on the Euro/pound exchange rate and having less of a percentage mark up compared to the 'recommended price' whihc they might otherwise be obliged to charge. There is an obvious advantage for USA buyers now as the pound is weak compared to the dollar so Maestro prices probably look very competitive compared to the recommended price State side.
Anyway i notice that some so called authorised dealers are advertising discounted 2010 stock and trading over the internet, so the comparison between authorised and non-authorised is somewhat blurred.

On the warranty issue the warranty in the UK is really with the retailer and not the manufacturer. I'd be interested to know if there have ever been any issues here as i think the warranty issue which is always being raised in a slightly spurious one, as under law if the retailer supplies faulty goods, they are obliged to put them right or provide a refund. Maestro say they guarantee all their frames.

Slightly long winded response, but when (not if i hope) i buy my next Colnago, Maestro will be the first people i will call.


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## jjmstang

WS, this is not toward you, but I have a very hard time believing that Colnago doesn't know how Maestro and others are getting thier frames.
Sounds like Colnago is blowing smoke up peoples asses.
Colnago is a major manufacturer, major distributor and supplier and they can't track thier frames ?? come on....................


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## JeremyP

Considering where the serial numbers on the frames are, I doubt very much Colnago doesn't know where their frames are coming from. I know you raise the 'warranty' aspect but how many issues have popped up on a new EPS frameset? Does the US warranty provide an instant replacement? Or does it take weeks or even months to get things sorted? This kind of info would provide piece of mind to buyers when they drop USD$5.5k.


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## fabsroman

WrenchScienceCliff said:


> 1) We don't really know how they're getting the frames, especially at such absurdly cheap prices. That is a key part of the problem and what raises the most suspicion.
> 2) "Law of the Free Market" in EU actually makes the label of "Authorized Dealer" not legally binding. In other words, a corner grocery store in the EU could sell Colnagos if they wanted to...and for any amount too. The result is that the distribution chain has become very hard to trace and Colnago has less quality control over which European shops can sell their products. Colnago cares very much about questions of where/how/who, my concern is that buyers looking for crazy discounts are not asking these same questions.
> 3) It's not easy to simply "shut them down." We'll just have to sit tight and see what happens next. I anticipate that in a few years these gray market dealers will not have any access to Colnagos and thus won't be able to support today's buyers.


Good, and that is how it should be. Leupold pulled the same BS here in the US on its rifle scopes. Anybody not selling the scopes at the MSRP was black listed and they could not get any stock. Totally legal here in the US, but that is what is so great about the internet. It allows us to shop all over the world, where some laws are a little more consumer friendly. If I decide to sell Colnagos out of a shop I build in my backyard and don't have to pay rent, etc., why should I not be able to undercut the other guys that have to pay rent. Of course, I wouldn't have any staff either, so I would only be able to do a minimum number of bikes a year. This is how I have set up my law/CPA practice. I practice from home and have no staff. I pass the savings on to my clients and have work coming out my ears right now (of course, it is tax season). Why should ALL attorneys be required to charge exactly the same rates? I bet most consumers wouldn't like that.

If Colnago really wanted to figure this out, they could. They could start lawsuit after lawsuit and figure out exactly where the frames are coming from and going to.


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## fabsroman

WrenchScienceCliff said:


> Let's talk about Maestro, Pro Bike Kit, and other non-authorized Colnago dealers around the world.
> 
> This is a very late reply (March 3, 2010) to the original postings about Maestro, Bellati, et al, but my goal is to throw in my two cents, since the post is still being read. Clearly, I'm outnumbered by other posters here who will disagree with me.
> 
> I've admittedly mixed facts with opinions. I should acknowledge that Colnago and the Euro market have changed a bit since the original postings, but want to put some updated information from a US dealer concerned about these issues. Vested interests? Certainly.
> Would love to hear some replies, but do not want to get bogged down in disrespectful or epic flaming posts, nor off-topic rants. Bottom line is this: I may disagree with some previous posters here, but I'm not here to attack anyone's character. I appreciate the same from others.
> 
> 
> 1. Colnago does not authorize any distributor to paint frames. Period. If Codagex, the Benelux distributor that sells Colnagos to Maestro et al, is painting frames, they are also voiding the warranty.
> 2. Colnago doesn't appreciate the reputation these shops are bringing the company around the world, i.e. the idea that all other dealers are charging more (i.e. the mandated MSRP) simply because they are "greedy."
> 3. If US shops sold their Colnagos at Maestro's et al's prices, we would all go out of business because we would be losing (bleeding) money on every sale. So how do they sell so cheaply (i.e. below US wholesale cost)? I don't know. But Colnago doesn't know either...does that tell you anything?
> 4. If the price is too good to be true, it probably is. But if you don't believe that, I'd like to sell you a genuine Rolex watch for $300.
> 5. There is always a shop that can undercut the next guy's price. Really, if you're looking for discount bikes, Colnago probably isn't the right company for you.
> 6. What is your time worth? What is it worth to have the buying process be stress-free and even fun? To get a bike whose background you can trust? Is it worth anything to have a guaranteed fit? To have an accountable and accessible shop? To support your local economy?
> 7. The fact that these unauthorized shops are the bane of Colnago's existence might tell you something: they don't have a direct line on Colnagos now, and more importantly, in the future they are very unlikely to have any capacity to support a Colnago warranty.


This is a cut and paste from my post in PO. Figured people in this forum might want to read it too.

1) Duly noted.

2) I don't think other shops charge more because they are "greedy". I think some of them have to charge more because it costs them more to get the frame and because their rent is higher. With anything out there, there is always some wiggle room. A shop out in Wyoming would probably be making a killing selling a decked out Colnago at the same price as a shop in Manhattan.

3) Since there are a couple of retailers out there that have pretty decent deals on Colnagos, two of which I own, either Colnago is blind or dumb, maybe both. Maybe Colnago is telling some retailers one story and others a different story. I have noticed that Maestro has somewhat stopped promoting Colnago and is moving to other frames. Personally, I think it is a shame since Maestro seemed to be the best place to get a retro paint job on a Colnago. Further, the Bicycle Pro Shop installled the headset on my Cristallo, and if I hadn't told them that I bought it overseas they never would have known. Of course, as soon as I mentioned I bought it overseas I got the 10 minute lecture akin to this one.

4) A genuine Rolex watch for $300 is a little wider of a price discrepancy than a genuine Colnago Cristallo at $2,500 from overseas versus a $3,600 one from Wrench Science. That was the difference when I bought the Cristallo. The difference when I bought the C50 was $3,150 from overseas versus $4,400. Guess what, I bought a Mont Blanc watch in Italy for half of what it cost in the US. I take it to the US Mont Blanc retailer in Tysons Corner to get the battery replaced whenever it dies and they have yet to mention it is a fake. Even sent it to Mont Blanc for warranty work and they never mentioned that it was a fake. Sometimes, a good deal is just that, a good deal. Now, if you were going to tell me that I could get a brand new EPS for $500, then I would really start to wonder. I would probably wonder at anything below $3,000.

5) I look for deals whenever I buy anything, whether it is a Mont Blanc pen, Mont Blanc watch, Mustang GT, Ford F-350 Lariat Crew Cab, diamond ring and earrings for my wife, Vikiing kitchen appliances, etc. Please do not tell me that if I am looking for a deal on a frame a Colnago probably is not what I should get. I can just as easily tell you that if you are looking for my business and cannot meet or beat a competitor's price, then you truly do not want my business. To put it bluntly, I consider your #5 to be insultiing.

6) If I bought from Wrench Science online, would that even apply to me? How about for those of us that live in the middle of nowhere and have a hard time getting to an authorized Colnago dealer? Are you going to say that if we cannot afford the flight to the nearest authorized dealer that a Colnago probably isn't for us? It was almost an hour drive for me to get to the Bicycle Pro Shop in Georgetown, and even then they didn't have a vast inventory of Colnagos in several different sizes for me to test ride if I had wanted to.

7) I will tell you the same thing I told the guy at the Bicycle Pro Shop regarding the warranty issue. If my Cristallo had snapped in half the first year I had it and Colnago would not fix it under warranty, I would take the $1,100 I saved and buy a Pinarello, De Rosa, or Bianchi. I was actually about to buy a carbon Bianchi for $1,800 when I found the Cristallo for $2,500. Same goes for the C50 that I saved around $1,250 on. Combine the two savings and that is almost a new frame, albeit only half a new frame at US retail prices.

What I find hard to believe is that Colnago doesn't know where these frames are coming from, and that it cannot put a stop to it legally. I'm pretty sure that there are Trademark and patent infringements all over the place if these frames aren't actually being built by Colnago. Even if they are leaving through the back door of the Colnago factories, they are still Colnagos. Plus, it isn't like I am buying these frames out of a van in a back alley. I am buying them off of the internet, and I am pretty sure that Colnago could figure out who the retailers are pretty easily, just as I found a couple of bargains on Colnago frames when I was in the market for them.

If a person waits long enough, there will always be a deal out there somewhere. Look at all the frames that were extremely cheap when Veltec had its blowout. Bicycle Pro Shop sold an EP to a teammate of mine for about the same thing I paid for my overseas C50, but just a little more.

Do I really have to get into the amount of money I saved on Campy groupos by ordering them through 11speed.com, ProBike Kit, etc.?

Suffice it to say that by the time I was done building my Cristallo, it came in at $3,000+ less than a comparably spec'd bike from Wrench Science and I had just over $5,000 in it. The cost at Wrench Science was over $8,000. You will have to admit that a $3,000 savings isn't something to sneeze at, regardless of whether it is a Colnago or a Ferrari being purchased. If you are sneezing at $3,000 in savings, then you have a lot more money than I do.


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## iyeoh

With all due respect...

Why is it that the authorized Colnago dealers in Singapore, Hong Kong or Taiwan are willing to sell me a genuine EPS with the same exact geometry substantially cheaper than the equivalent authorized dealer in the United States, even accounting for exchange rate differences? Why is it that they can outright laugh at you US dealers, and one of them told me that I would be a dumb-ass stupid mofo to buy from you, the US dealer?

This is cartel driven pricing. At the extreme of the competitive continuum from pure competition is the market structure which economists designate as a pure monopoly. The descriptive characteristics are as follows: 
(1) The "market" is supplied by a single distributorship. 
(2) There are no close substitutes, i.e., the product is significantly differentiated from all others {well, EPS is unique}
(3) There is the exploitation of scale economies; 
(4) a technological uniquity exists through R&D; 
(5) the two authorized US dealers are granted exclusive position through fiat.

This is the very bane of market driven competition. 

Why is it that Rolex, Piaget, Mercedes, Porsche, Ferrari (all brands which I patronize), et. al., will provide me the same level of warranty service anywhere in the world, as long as the merchandise is genuine and as long as I purchased the merchandise at an authorized dealer? Why is it that those brands will bend over backwards to please me to the fullest extent possible for a nominal fee? 

Why can't I buy a Colnago in the colors/colours that *I* the *customer* wants, instead of what Mr. Colnago thinks I may or may not be good enough to ride on? If I the American wants to paint stars and stripes on my frame, instead of tri Italian colors, why would that void my warranty? Why can't a Colnago US dealer honor a valid warranty on a Colnago legitimately bought in Asia or Europe?


----------



## Richieg

WrenchScienceCliff said:


> Let's talk about Maestro, Pro Bike Kit, and other non-authorized Colnago dealers around the world.
> 
> This is a very late reply (March 3, 2010) to the original postings about Maestro, Bellati, et al, but my goal is to throw in my two cents, since the post is still being read. Clearly, I'm outnumbered by other posters here who will disagree with me.
> 
> I've admittedly mixed facts with opinions. I should acknowledge that Colnago and the Euro market have changed a bit since the original postings, but want to put some updated information from a US dealer concerned about these issues. Vested interests? Certainly.
> Would love to hear some replies, but do not want to get bogged down in disrespectful or epic flaming posts, nor off-topic rants. Bottom line is this: I may disagree with some previous posters here, but I'm not here to attack anyone's character. I appreciate the same from others.
> 
> 
> 1. Colnago does not authorize any distributor to paint frames. Period. If Codagex, the Benelux distributor that sells Colnagos to Maestro et al, is painting frames, they are also voiding the warranty.
> 2. Colnago doesn't appreciate the reputation these shops are bringing the company around the world, i.e. the idea that all other dealers are charging more (i.e. the mandated MSRP) simply because they are "greedy."
> 3. If US shops sold their Colnagos at Maestro's et al's prices, we would all go out of business because we would be losing (bleeding) money on every sale. So how do they sell so cheaply (i.e. below US wholesale cost)? I don't know. But Colnago doesn't know either...does that tell you anything?
> 4. If the price is too good to be true, it probably is. But if you don't believe that, I'd like to sell you a genuine Rolex watch for $300.
> 5. There is always a shop that can undercut the next guy's price. Really, if you're looking for discount bikes, Colnago probably isn't the right company for you.
> 6. What is your time worth? What is it worth to have the buying process be stress-free and even fun? To get a bike whose background you can trust? Is it worth anything to have a guaranteed fit? To have an accountable and accessible shop? To support your local economy?
> 7. The fact that these unauthorized shops are the bane of Colnago's existence might tell you something: they don't have a direct line on Colnagos now, and more importantly, in the future they are very unlikely to have any capacity to support a Colnago warranty.


Maestro has been selling Colnago for how long? After all these years, Colnago can't stop the supply?


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## koyaanisqatsi

*Let's talk about Colnago!*



WrenchScienceCliff said:


> Let's talk about Maestro, Pro Bike Kit, and other non-authorized Colnago dealers around the world.


Why couldn't Wrench Science get a 2010 EPS Zabel for me? Ask Tim Medina what I had to go through. He couldn't get the Zabel for another customer as well. Tim talks to Colnago at least once per day. Yet Colnago said they would not provide the 2010 EPS Zabel to WS. That Color was available thru Pista Palace and R&A (R&A thinks they have an exclusive on the Zabel). Yes, Tim finally got Colnago to provide me a Zabel thru WS, but by then I was fed up and went with a 2010 Dogma anyway. And Tim could only get the Zabel armed with the information that I fed him.

My point is that Colnago is telling one retailer one thing and another retailer something else. This unfair to retailers and customers. So far I've restricted my comments to authorized retailers only. And given the above, why shouldn't someone go to a non-authorized Colnago retailer if that retailer can get them the bike and color scheme that they want rather than the runaround I got. Furthermore, I'd note that these non-authorized retailers are actually the greatest thing that could happen to Colnago...they'll sell the frames for Colnago, Colnago can and does deny responsibility, and Colnago doesn't have to honor these warrantees, which is going to save them a bundle. Save the casuistry for someone who does not understand "unsavory" business practices. Colnago knows exactly how unauthorized retailers get the frames...Colnago sells the frames to them, then plays games with authorized Colnago retailers. And WrenchScienceCliff, you should be pretty ticked off about Colnago's business practices because you get hurt by what Colnago is doing.

As for me, I'm happy with my Dogma purchase. I stayed with WS only because Tim Medina seemed to work hard on my behalf. But I'll never buy a Colnago frame. As a potential customer, that's the only way I have to fight back.


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## JeremyP

As mentioned, some authorised dealer prices are over 1k cheaper overseas, even more if you strike up a conversation in the local tongue. Not going to mention the exact price, but it is real good :-D. You could fly there, take a holiday, go back to the US and still be better off. I doubt any EPS have broken from 'just riding along'... This also applies to the Dogma...

What US dealers need to do is get 'special editions' in stock like Pista, when that happens, even someone like me will pay inflated prices to get one ASAP. Hey, would even consider flying over there to pick up the frame LOL.


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## iyeoh

JeremyP said:


> As mentioned, some authorised dealer prices are over 1k cheaper overseas, even more if you strike up a conversation in the local tongue. Not going to mention the exact price, but it is real good :-D. You could fly there, take a holiday, go back to the US and still be better off. I doubt any EPS have broken from 'just riding along'...


I can fly there, pick it up, stop by Hawaii for three days by the beach and fly back, and *still* be ahead in terms of the savings. {granted I can smooze in local dialect} How are they going to explain that?


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## iyeoh

jjmstang said:


> WS, this is not toward you, but I have a very hard time believing that Colnago doesn't know how Maestro and others are getting thier frames.
> Sounds like Colnago is blowing smoke up peoples asses.
> Colnago is a major manufacturer, major distributor and supplier and they can't track thier frames ?? come on....................


Sounds like the Russian arms manufacturer who doesn't understand how his weapons can find its way to the hands of both Hamas and the Mossad.


----------



## Clevor

Richieg said:


> Maestro has been selling Colnago for how long? After all these years, Colnago can't stop the supply?


+1

I mean c'mon. The situation with Maestro was clearly known five years ago. The deal with Benelux, etc. I think Colnago tried to sue him but maybe he was selling so many frames that made up for it and they figured why bother. 

The only thing I noticed at the time was other vendors in UK and Europe started selling C50s for around $3K, when the going price was $4-4.5K in the U.S. Maybe that opened up the market there.

As for you guys whining about warrantee service, go get a Giant. Lifetime warrantee. Anything wrong with the frame, take it into any shop that sells Giant and they will honor the warrantee. No song and dance routine about a $5,000 frame (I hear Pinarello owners have the same problem).

Remember the $5,000 2005 Dogma, made out of magnesium? With a measly 2-year warrantee? Imagine when that corrosion preventive coating wears off and the frame fizzles away like alka selzer if you live near the coast.


----------



## Clevor

JeremyP said:


> As mentioned, some authorised dealer prices are over 1k cheaper overseas, even more if you strike up a conversation in the local tongue. Not going to mention the exact price, but it is real good :-D. You could fly there, take a holiday, go back to the US and still be better off. I doubt any EPS have broken from 'just riding along'... This also applies to the Dogma...
> 
> What US dealers need to do is get 'special editions' in stock like Pista, when that happens, even someone like me will pay inflated prices to get one ASAP. Hey, would even consider flying over there to pick up the frame LOL.


Guys, take a look at this link:

http://tw.page.bid.yahoo.com/tw/auction/c48315283

I can't read Chinese, but it's a China Yahoo link about a guy selling 2010 EPSs. Hey, I thought that Mapei paint scheme was an exclusive of R&A Cycles! You telling me he got the frame from Brooklyn???

As the plot thickens . . .

Wow, nice paint jobs, BTW.


----------



## Richieg

Clevor said:


> Guys, take a look at this link:
> 
> http://tw.page.bid.yahoo.com/tw/auction/c48315283
> 
> I can't read Chinese, but it's a China Yahoo link about a guy selling 2010 EPSs. Hey, I thought that Mapei paint scheme was an exclusive of R&A Cycles! You telling me he got the frame from Brooklyn???
> 
> As the plot thickens . . .
> 
> Wow, nice paint jobs, BTW.


Some of the Colnago paint work is so damn ugly! By the way, wonder if those Lightweights are fake too?


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## koyaanisqatsi

In an email to me from R&A, they said they said an exclusive (for the 2010 EPS) on: Mapei, PRZA, LX10, TWBK. I believe they truly thought that at the time...maybe they still do. If Colnago wants to do business like this, I won't do business with Colnago. As I've said before, refusing to accept Colnago's business practices is the only way a customer has to fight back.


----------



## iyeoh

Clevor said:


> Guys, take a look at this link:
> 
> http://tw.page.bid.yahoo.com/tw/auction/c48315283
> 
> I can't read Chinese, but it's a China Yahoo link about a guy selling 2010 EPSs. Hey, I thought that Mapei paint scheme was an exclusive of R&A Cycles! You telling me he got the frame from Brooklyn???
> 
> As the plot thickens . . .
> 
> Wow, nice paint jobs, BTW.



That's an auction in Taiwan. He opening bid prices are shockingly cheap... reserve price not specified.... but two frames together are only slightly more expensive than what R&A is selling one frame for... tells you exactly what a rip off US prices are.

This guy is hooked up with the high end frames. Here's a Dogma 60.1 carbon he's selling.
http://tw.page.bid.yahoo.com/tw/auction/1206268865?u=super77770

He's got more EPS frames and a Master 55. All cheap as dirt. {again, this is an auction.. I've seen opening bids for Rolls Royces on Ebay for $100}

One wonders where he gets all this stuff from (obviously he's not reselling R&A frames)


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## iyeoh

koyaanisqatsi said:


> In an email to me from R&A, they said they said an exclusive (for the 2010 EPS) on: Mapei, PRZA, LX10, TWBK. I believe they truly thought that at the time...maybe they still do. If Colnago wants to do business like this, I won't do business with Colnago. As I've said before, refusing to accept Colnago's business practices is the only way a customer has to fight back.



Perhaps they do.... but such exclusive rights are meaningless in Asia... the wild west of commerce. Nobody gives a rat's about American laws in Asia.


----------



## fabsroman

iyeoh said:


> That's an auction in Taiwan. He opening bid prices are shockingly cheap... reserve price not specified.... but two frames together are only slightly more expensive than what R&A is selling one frame for... tells you exactly what a rip off US prices are.
> 
> This guy is hooked up with the high end frames. Here's a Dogma 60.1 carbon he's selling.
> http://tw.page.bid.yahoo.com/tw/auction/1206268865?u=super77770
> 
> He's got more EPS frames and a Master 55. All cheap as dirt. {again, this is an auction.. I've seen opening bids for Rolls Royces on Ebay for $100}
> 
> One wonders where he gets all this stuff from (obviously he's not reselling R&A frames)


Maybe he hijacked a truckload of Colnago frames.

Sometimes, I wonder how much stolen stuff gets fenced on e-bay. A guy that screwed me on some Zipp wheels was selling an entire bike and Rolex watches almost every week. Plus, these were high end bikes and it looked like the pics were being taken in his living room. It really makes you wonder about this stuff.

Let me know if this guy in Taiwan is selling a Master Xlight in PR82 in a 53cm. Then again, I did just get burned on ebay by ordering a 16gb micro SD card that was only 2gb. It was so fake it was hilarious. Of course, it has been over two months since I filed my claim with Paypal and they are still investigating the situation and it cost me $12 to return the micro SD card to the vendor. Talk about some BS. It is costing me $12 in postage just to try and have $26 refunded to me. I'm doing it on principle since I know these foreign sellors do this stuff thinking that the buyers will not pursue it.

For a Master XLight frame, I would pursue it for quite a while.


----------



## JeremyP

You could be a westerner and walk into a shop in Asia, get a Dogma and EPS frameset, stock of course for the price of one frame and perhaps a set of Fulcrum Racing Zeros in the States. 

Guy most likely works/owns a bike shop and is clearing stock.


----------



## Scott milburn

Guys, I'm an ex-pat living in Macau (China) for past 4 years. I ordered and bought my EP STIT colour through Mike at Maestro. Quite a few local guys here ride Colnago's, infact plenty of exotic bikes and there's a pretty strong cycling scene.
The Wings Co. in Hong Kong are the authorised distributor for Colnago in this region. they have a number of archive paint scheme bikes in stock, but when I asked for a STIT told me that Colnago don't do custom colours....regarding price - they're around the same as Mike but just don't give the same level of service. Ultimately for me at the time the Euro was weak and it was much cheaper to purchase from the UK.


----------



## JeremyP

You did not get a discount from Wings? haha. Yes, the guy doesn't seem interested in selling bikes haha, even if you speak the same language. Bit like Seinfeld, these are the sizes and colours we stock, no Colnago for you LMAO. Then again, if he knows you things may be different. :-D


----------



## Scott milburn

Yes you're probably right. I even wrote to Colnago head office afterwards and provided them with some feedback on Wings lack of service.....I had a deposit in my pocket....go figure??


----------



## JeremyP

He was angry before and after the last visit hehe. Need to go when he's on a good day. Then you'll get a killer deal.


----------



## Scott milburn

I know a local guy here who recently bought a bike from him....sounds like I need to take him with me on my next visit


----------



## iyeoh

Been to Wings before. Knowing Cantonese helps a lot. Anyway, he's no more rude than another big-name store here in the US, but I rather have rude people sell me a bike for cheap than some guy to sweet talk me and then stick it in my rear.


----------



## JeremyP

No sweet talk at Wings lol, but you'll get at least 10% off with a bit of sweet talk on your part (in cantonese of course) from their already low prices haha.


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## iyeoh

When you go there, just don't get in his way.. or ask stupid questions lol "No Colnago for you for two years!" lol I went there with a local friend who was asking the price about something or another that was just released, and Wings happenned to have it in stock and they went to get it. My friend then said "just asking the price" and he got his rear end chewed out like no tomorrow "Do you want to buy or do you want to waste my time" hahaha... On the other hand, how many Chinese guys you know can sing Italian opera perfectly? The man's amazing lol

One of my favorite bike stores in the world. Mongkok, Kowloon, HK.
http://www.thewingsco.com/


----------



## JeremyP

Considering he has known Ernesto for such a long time ;-)


----------



## koyaanisqatsi

*Who you know*



JeremyP said:


> Considering he has known Ernesto for such a long time ;-)


So if you know the godfather Ernesto, you can get a good deal as a retailer? Otherwise, you "sleep with the fishes?"


----------



## JeremyP

He is the distributor of Pinarello and Colnago in that region. You are more than welcome paying an extra 2k for your standard Dogma through 'authorised' channels in the US.

Prices are different in different geographical regions as a result of 'price discrimination'. Like how cars are 2-3x greater in that region. Buy from who you are comfortable with. Personally I prefer something unique. Thought you'd guys would appreciate a photo of one of my rides. ;-). Was before I swapped to a Thomson stem and black tape.


----------



## Scott milburn

Here's my ride prior to upgrading to Di2


----------



## iyeoh

koyaanisqatsi said:


> So if you know the godfather Ernesto, you can get a good deal as a retailer? Otherwise, you "sleep with the fishes?"



Its not so much that he's so chummy with the godfather that he gets such great deals as a retailer. Some other retailers in Asia don't know the godfather personally but have similar prices.

By paying $5,500, you are paying for the US retailer's overhead expenses, the money he pays to hire Americans, and the ridiculous taxes he pays as a business. 

As far as I'm concerned, with all due respect to being American and supporting the US economy etc etc, a $5,500 frame for about $2,500-$2,800, Super Record 11 for about the price of Chorus/Athena, Lightweight for about the price of Zipps, those are pretty good deals.

What I know is that my school of economices says that the Asian has a comparative advantage and a sustainable strategic competitive advantage to selling bikes, the American retail business model is not sustainable, and will be run out of business over the long run.


----------



## Richieg

JeremyP said:


> You gotta love the price discrimination of the Colnago EPS framesets. Anyone in the know will buy it at the lowest cost (from a simple internet search - lower prices if you really search):
> USD$5,500 in the US as per post above. USD$4,000 in the UK. USD$6,600 in AUS.
> 
> Regarding warranty of an international frame, it's not needed, just buy bike/race insurance. Approx USD$400 per year.


Where can I buy insurance for a bike? Never heard of this. Thanks


----------



## koyaanisqatsi

*I'm not in a position to compare prices between countries*



iyeoh said:


> Its not so much that he's so chummy with the godfather that he gets such great deals as a retailer. Some other retailers in Asia don't know the godfather personally but have similar prices.
> 
> By paying $5,500, you are paying for the US retailer's overhead expenses, the money he pays to hire Americans, and the ridiculous taxes he pays as a business.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, with all due respect to being American and supporting the US economy etc etc, a $5,500 frame for about $2,500-$2,800, Super Record 11 for about the price of Chorus/Athena, Lightweight for about the price of Zipps, those are pretty good deals.
> 
> What I know is that my school of economices says that the Asian has a comparative advantage and a sustainable strategic competitive advantage to selling bikes, the American retail business model is not sustainable, and will be run out of business over the long run.


The $ is relatively weak compared to many other currencies, so that can account for the high prices here in the U.S. As for the American retail business model, there is not much a retailer can do about taxes, they can hire immigrant labor for bike assembly (won't go over well). I live in New York State; state and county sales taxes come to 8-1/4%--that's a lot of tax money on a $10k bike. Of course NYS is strangling itself with overregulation and I want to get out.

But what, other than being chummy with the godfather, accounts for Pista Palace being able to get Colnago frames of color schemes that other U.S. retailers can't get. In fact R&A thinks (well, said they had) exclusives on some of these frames. Wrench Science can't get the PRZA. PP isn't even an Internet retailer. I've covered this ground, so I don't want to go over it all again.

But IMO, Colnago (and any other bike manufacturer or brand) should treat all authorized dealers the same or publicly state which retailer(s) is(are) getting preferential treatment, as well as what custom color schemes are available. To do otherwise is dishonest at best. My worst fears have been realized, at least with Colnago...buying a Colnago frame is like the much-dreaded experience of buying a new car. You find someone got a frame with a paint scheme you were told by a reputable retailer was not available. Frame/bike prices here in the U.S. seem to be fairly uniform. Bottom line is that I see Colnago as being the problem here in the U.S. and I won't buy one.


----------



## one80

koyaanisqatsi said:


> Wrench Science can't get the PRZA.


Yes, they can


----------



## JeremyP

Richie, in Aus you can get it from a few places such as www.velosure.com.au, www.cyclecover.com.au, www.realinsurance.com.au/Bicycle-Insurance.aspx, and http://www.swanninsurance.com/products/cyclesmart.

Not sure about the States. 

Buying a Colnago is like buying a Ferrari, so many options and things to consider... :-D


----------



## iyeoh

koyaanisqatsi said:


> But IMO, Colnago (and any other bike manufacturer or brand) should treat all authorized dealers the same or publicly state which retailer(s) is(are) getting preferential treatment, as well as what custom color schemes are available. To do otherwise is dishonest at best.


Preaching to the choir, buddy. No arguments from me.


----------



## fabsroman

one80 said:


> Yes, they can


Yeah, Wrench Science has said that on here, but that isn't what they said to Koyaa when he was looking for a Colnago. At first, they told him they weren't able to get it, and then with a lot of prodding from him they finally contacted Colnago and said that they could get it for him. At that point, he decided to go with a Pinarello Dogma over the Colnago EPS because of Colnago's business practices.

So, after Koyaa did all that, it has been confirmed that Wrench Science can get it in PRZA.

With all that said, have you checked Wrench Science's website regarding the colors it has listed for the EPS. PRZA isn't on there. With that said, most online retailers do not advertise PRZA as an option on the EPS, but I know some of them can get it for you if they like you. It all comes down to knowing people.

Unlike Koyaa, I completely understand how "knowing people" counts in business. Like they say, it isn't about what you know, it is about who you know. If you are best friends with Ernesto, I'm sure he would be a lot more willing to do something special for you versus the rude, arrogant fool that comes in off the street and demands a special frame/bike for the same price as all the other standard frames.


----------



## koyaanisqatsi

*No, No, No!*



fabsroman said:


> Yeah, Wrench Science has said that on here, but that isn't what they said to Koyaa when he was looking for a Colnago. At first, they told him they weren't able to get it, and then with a lot of prodding from him they finally contacted Colnago and said that they could get it for him. At that point, he decided to go with a Pinarello Dogma over the Colnago EPS because of Colnago's business practices.
> 
> So, after Koyaa did all that, it has been confirmed that Wrench Science can get it in PRZA.
> 
> With all that said, have you checked Wrench Science's website regarding the colors it has listed for the EPS. PRZA isn't on there. With that said, most online retailers do not advertise PRZA as an option on the EPS, but I know some of them can get it for you if they like you. It all comes down to knowing people.
> 
> Unlike Koyaa, I completely understand how "knowing people" counts in business. Like they say, it isn't about what you know, it is about who you know. If you are best friends with Ernesto, I'm sure he would be a lot more willing to do something special for you versus the rude, arrogant fool that comes in off the street and demands a special frame/bike for the same price as all the other standard frames.


fabsroman: You followed my purchase decision and you should know better. WS is in contact with Colnago U.S. at least once daily regarding one matter or another. When you write a short history, avoid disinformation or don't post at all. WS had already been told that the 2010 EPS PRZA was not available when Tim Medina had asked about the 2010 EPS PRZA on behalf of a previous (to me) customer. I've told you this; you know this. Tim Medina asked again on my behalf and was told "NO!" by Colnago U.S. But The Kraken (Pista Palace) said he could get the PRZA...no problem. Others said any retailer could get the 2010 EPS PRZA. You know this. I simply provided this information to Tim Medina of WS. He contacted Colnago U.S., was apparently somewhat insistent, so Colnago contacted the factory (Europe). At this point Colnago agreed to provide a 2010 EPS PRZA to WS for me. By this point, fed up with Colnago's business practices, I had decided to go with the 2010 Dogma. I contacted R&A after all this had transpired to inquire about custom 2010 EPS colors and was told that the PRZA was one (among some other custom colors) that only they could provide. The R&A Web site did not list the PRZA or the other custom colors that only they could provide. The 2010 Colnago catalogue does not mention any customer colors except the MAPEI, the LX10, and the MTBK. When I was shopping only the AK color schemes were listed on their Web site. Both R&A and WS are both reputable Colnago-authorized Internet retailers.

I wasn't asking for special treatment. I was told by people in these (Colnago) forums that the 2010 EPS PRZA was available through any retailer willing to ask for one. And I think that you, fabsroman, were one of the people who told me that. You have omitted most of what transpired. I wasn't rude, although I was direct. What I wanted was to be treated just as any other customer was being treated. Of course, you remember the "ten and only ten" Saronni's (PR82) which magically morphed into as many as we decide to sell. Whatever happened to a company making a commitment and sticking to it?

SO you have to "know people" to be able to get the PRZA? Unlike fabsroman, I understand that knowing people in business not only counts, but counts in ways fabsroman does not understand. I understand the corrosive effects of showing favoritism to one's "friends" in the business world. Those potential customers and customers who are not friends realize that they will be or are being treated unfairly. I was project manager and senior programmer for 18 years. My customer always got what I promised them or more than was promised them. None got the "short end of the stick" and none ever expressed dissatisfaction. They were treated equally as customers and they knew it. There were no favorites and they all appreciated that fact. That is how you should do business. Otherwise, the customer who gets less finds someone who will treat them fairly. I saw that happen to other project managers in my company who ignored customer's needs. So now, as a customer, I know it makes sense to simply treat me as you would treat other customers.

And fabsroman, you need to very clear who you are referring to as "the rude, arrogant fool that comes in off the street and demands a special frame/bike for the same price as all the other standard frames."


----------



## Jbartmc

*Sgt. Hulka*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6cxNR9ML8k


----------



## fabsroman

koyaanisqatsi said:


> fabsroman: You followed my purchase decision and you should know better. WS is in contact with Colnago U.S. at least once daily regarding one matter or another. When you write a short history, avoid disinformation or don't post at all. WS had already been told that the 2010 EPS PRZA was not available when Tim Medina had asked about the 2010 EPS PRZA on behalf of a previous (to me) customer. I've told you this; you know this. Tim Medina asked again on my behalf and was told "NO!" by Colnago U.S. But The Kraken (Pista Palace) said he could get the PRZA...no problem. Others said any retailer could get the 2010 EPS PRZA. You know this. I simply provided this information to Tim Medina of WS. He contacted Colnago U.S., was apparently somewhat insistent, so Colnago contacted the factory (Europe). At this point Colnago agreed to provide a 2010 EPS PRZA to WS for me. By this point, fed up with Colnago's business practices, I had decided to go with the 2010 Dogma. I contacted R&A after all this had transpired to inquire about custom 2010 EPS colors and was told that the PRZA was one (among some other custom colors) that only they could provide. The R&A Web site did not list the PRZA or the other custom colors that only they could provide. The 2010 Colnago catalogue does not mention any customer colors except the MAPEI, the LX10, and the MTBK. When I was shopping only the AK color schemes were listed on their Web site. Both R&A and WS are both reputable Colnago-authorized Internet retailers.
> 
> I wasn't asking for special treatment. I was told by people in these (Colnago) forums that the 2010 EPS PRZA was available through any retailer willing to ask for one. And I think that you, fabsroman, were one of the people who told me that. You have omitted most of what transpired. I wasn't rude, although I was direct. What I wanted was to be treated just as any other customer was being treated. Of course, you remember the "ten and only ten" Saronni's (PR82) which magically morphed into as many as we decide to sell. Whatever happened to a company making a commitment and sticking to it?
> 
> SO you have to "know people" to be able to get the PRZA? Unlike fabsroman, I understand that knowing people in business not only counts, but counts in ways fabsroman does not understand. I understand the corrosive effects of showing favoritism to one's "friends" in the business world. Those potential customers and customers who are not friends realize that they will be or are being treated unfairly. I was project manager and senior programmer for 18 years. My customer always got what I promised them or more than was promised them. None got the "short end of the stick" and none ever expressed dissatisfaction. They were treated equally as customers and they knew it. There were no favorites and they all appreciated that fact. That is how you should do business. Otherwise, the customer who gets less finds someone who will treat them fairly. I saw that happen to other project managers in my company who ignored customer's needs. So now, as a customer, I know it makes sense to simply treat me as you would treat other customers.
> 
> And fabsroman, you need to very clear who you are referring to as "the rude, arrogant fool that comes in off the street and demands a special frame/bike for the same price as all the other standard frames."


I was wondering where I had called you rude, and then I saw the last sentence. It wasn't meant to apply to you, only to use both ends of the spectrum to show how one can get something done easily and there is no way another will get it done period. It was in no way meant to refer to you. At first, I thought you were assuming I was referring to you being rude when I said "prodding".

As far as the story goes, I don't have time to research all the PM's we sent between the two of us, but I don't think I ever said you could get the PRZA from any retailer and I am pretty sure I did not know the exact particulars of your talking to Tim Medina. In fact, I think I only heard that name recently in this thread. My memory is pretty decent nowadays, and a lot of what you just wrote above is new to me.

I definitely remember the issue with Pista Palace wherein they were getting a aset number of EPS frames in PR82 and those would be the only ones painted that scheme this year, or maybe forever from here on out.

Who knows what all the exact particulars are and there is always two side, if not more, to every story. Personally, I'm not a big fan of Colnago's business practice in the US, but as long as they don't mess with the overseas retailers I will continue to purchase from overseas.

As far as my comment about knowing people is concerned, it still applies. Heck, I give some of my high school friends I have known for 20+ years a discount on my legal, accounting, and tax prep services. I also give my family a discount. Is there really something wrong with that? Sometimes, I'll even look things over for free for clients that have been with me for a long time versus a new client.

Ultimately,if Colnago wants to penalize its US retailers, or penalize specific US retailers, that is up to them. I know one shop in Annapolis that is no longer carrying Colnagos because of this business practice. Everybody has the right to choose. When Colnagos get to be too much of a pain in the rear for me to purchase because of price or BS in color schemes, you can bet I will have no qualms about going to a different frame manufacturer. As it is, dropping $5,000 on a frame just seems unfathomable to me.


----------



## koyaanisqatsi

*Yep!*



Jbartmc said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6cxNR9ML8k


Time to chill out. It's just a d*** bike. I don't have to like Colnago. I don't have to deal with Colnago. And Ernesto will never miss me.


----------



## koyaanisqatsi

*iyeoh: All good questions/points*



iyeoh said:


> With all due respect...
> 
> Why is it that the authorized Colnago dealers in Singapore, Hong Kong or Taiwan are willing to sell me a genuine EPS with the same exact geometry substantially cheaper than the equivalent authorized dealer in the United States, even accounting for exchange rate differences? Why is it that they can outright laugh at you US dealers, and one of them told me that I would be a dumb-ass stupid mofo to buy from you, the US dealer?
> 
> This is cartel driven pricing. At the extreme of the competitive continuum from pure competition is the market structure which economists designate as a pure monopoly. The descriptive characteristics are as follows:
> (1) The "market" is supplied by a single distributorship.
> (2) There are no close substitutes, i.e., the product is significantly differentiated from all others {well, EPS is unique}
> (3) There is the exploitation of scale economies;
> (4) a technological uniquity exists through R&D;
> (5) the two authorized US dealers are granted exclusive position through fiat.
> 
> This is the very bane of market driven competition.
> 
> Why is it that Rolex, Piaget, Mercedes, Porsche, Ferrari (all brands which I patronize), et. al., will provide me the same level of warranty service anywhere in the world, as long as the merchandise is genuine and as long as I purchased the merchandise at an authorized dealer? Why is it that those brands will bend over backwards to please me to the fullest extent possible for a nominal fee?
> 
> Why can't I buy a Colnago in the colors/colours that *I* the *customer* wants, instead of what Mr. Colnago thinks I may or may not be good enough to ride on? If I the American wants to paint stars and stripes on my frame, instead of tri Italian colors, why would that void my warranty? Why can't a Colnago US dealer honor a valid warranty on a Colnago legitimately bought in Asia or Europe?


I can't explain the price differences you mention. Exchange rate alone doesn't explain it. Labor costs for assembly is probably low in Asian countries. And if you can find someone who will work harder and longer, he/she is probably from central or south America. A young Chinese woman who worked for me (M.S. in Plasma Physics and a brilliant computer programmer) flatly said to me that "Americans are lazy." I had to agree.

But if you want any colour scheme, look at the Lynskey Web site. Now, I wouldn't be caught dead on some of the color schemes shown, but I think many are just examples of what Lynskey can do for you. Of course, it will cost you. With the right components the titanium Lynskey will probably not weigh much more than the Colnago and it's just about unbreakable.


----------



## fabsroman

koyaanisqatsi said:


> Time to chill out. It's just a d*** bike. I don't have to like Colnago. I don't have to deal with Colnago. And Ernesto will never miss me.


That isn't actually true. I know Leatherman missed a lot of people after his company backed Kerry and he replied to me and others with a snotty e-mail when we e-mailed him about it. About a month after the election, he wrote me, and others I would presume, an e-mail saying that we should think about all the employees of Leatherman that had nothing to do with the campaign sponsorship. My reply to him was that he should have thought about that when he decided to sponsor Kerry via his business, instead of him doing so just personally. Still haven't bought another Leatherman.

Then, Browning pissed me off back in 1990. Haven't bought another Browning even though I used to love their shotguns. In fact, it made me look at Beretta and Benelli instead, which was a good thing because just on the engineering side the Beretta and Benelli seem to be superior and their customer service is way above Browning's. I have bought 7+ shotguns since that Browning in 1990 and would guess I have spent over $15,000 on them.

In the end, all we can do is vote with our wallet, especially back in 1990. Nowadays, you can at least come on the internet and post your experience.

My junior English professor in college said "A person that has a great experience will tell one to two people. A person that has a bad experience will tell ten or more people." Way more people hear about my Browning story than about how much I love my Berettas. Way more people hear about my Leatherman story than about how much I love my Gerber multi-tools.


----------



## tmluk

*Bike Insurance*



JeremyP said:


> Richie, in Aus you can get it from a few places such as www.velosure.com.au, www.cyclecover.com.au, www.realinsurance.com.au/Bicycle-Insurance.aspx, and http://www.swanninsurance.com/products/cyclesmart.
> 
> Not sure about the States.
> 
> Buying a Colnago is like buying a Ferrari, so many options and things to consider... :-D


In Canada, one can buy bicyle insurance from "the co-operator" insurance company as a "rider" on top of my home insurance. It covers theft and accident (as long as it is not used for illegal activity) including "riding along" incidence. It only costs me CD$95 a year for a C50 with campy-10. So I am not too concern about warrant then even less now after 3-4 years.


----------



## JeremyP

mine also covers race insurance, which is the primary reason I got mine, and also 90 days overseas.


----------



## tofumann

iyeoh said:


> When you go there, just don't get in his way.. or ask stupid questions lol "No Colnago for you for two years!" lol I went there with a local friend who was asking the price about something or another that was just released, and Wings happenned to have it in stock and they went to get it. My friend then said "just asking the price" and he got his rear end chewed out like no tomorrow "Do you want to buy or do you want to waste my time" hahaha... On the other hand, how many Chinese guys you know can sing Italian opera perfectly? The man's amazing lol
> 
> One of my favorite bike stores in the world. Mongkok, Kowloon, HK.
> http://www.thewingsco.com/


He asked me once---"how much does a M5 cost in America?! Why so cheap?"


----------



## The_Kraken

*New Testament*

I am really hoping that we could combine this thread with the PRZA thread and create the entire Old Testament! I can't believe I overlooked this thread. So, where do I put my chompers in to this one...so yummy!

My guess is that the majority of you guys, given that this is an Internet forum, are quite savvy when it comes to typing in Google searches and domain names. Therefore, I'm sure you will eventually find that one super deal that will come along and then rejoice in posting to the universe how much was saved. I even have a website for you: bonktown.com They are owned by backcountryoutlet.com. I was talking to an owner of an Italian frame company last week, in fact, that sells stuff to them. I am certain you will find an amazing deal.

With that said, while a couple of you handsome fellows are Pista Palace customers, the majority are not. I know that you guys will most likely never buy a bike from me. I am totally cool with that. And I get lots of emails and messages from you guys that I do my best to answer. I believe that I am a good a source as any to address your questions and problems. I say, buy your Colnago from whoever you want. I am here to promote the brand, not my shop. And this is a good place to unveil new paints and frames and have you guys do the dirty work of circulating those pictures throughout the Internet ether. In effect, you guys help with the marketing.

Last week I shipped 2 bikes to Australia, 1 to Korea, 1 to Hong Kong, a couple back east. Were they all at full retail? I dunno. Some were framesets, some were full bikes. I'm a pretty reasonable dude. And one thing I can assure you is that if there is some kind of Colnago or TIME you want, I have as good a chance as anyone in getting it for you.

But what do you want? You want a price, a deal, a bike? All the above? I believe you should always get what you want. Exactly what you want. No compromises. And that is that. But if it so happens you want one of our exclusive paint schemes, well, it just won't be at the probikekit.com price. And its not because I have higher rent, overhead, or anything like that. I simply have a desired margin I want to make. Are YOU going to offer your services at a discount? Chances are that at some point some guy in India or China will be able to. Or maybe you have a niche specialized job that only you can do. And if so, why would you discount yourself? Now we are on the same page.

My goals are clear with the Colnago brand and even Italy knows it. Pista Palace will only offer exclusive paint and frames that are not sold on-line. We may have a few of those, but the vast majority of our inventory will be exclusive. This is carving our niche and protecting our market. Maybe you will scream, no fair! My LBS owner should be able to order your frame. Well, have him call up Italy, the fact is, he can not. He is free to create his very own exclusive frame. But when Cambiago asks you to make a minimum order of 24 framesets and prepay for them and shipping, the chances are that he simply won't be able to. Besides, he has all the other bike brands to sell and Colnago isn't what he is invested in. Well, we are. That is the difference. We sweat and bleed and breathe Colnago. It is an obsession. While other bike shops are turning wrenches on Tri bikes and beach cruisers, we will continue to think of how we can embody the honest values and ideals that Ernesto Colnago represents.

Can you imagine meeting Ernesto and asking him for a discount on a bike? Seriously. The thought is embarrassing. As a dealer, sure, there are obstacles and hurdles but that is just part of business. It isn't supposed to be easy. 

I will say this, though, there really is something special about seeing Paolo Bettini on our PR99 EPS that he requested we build for him. A legend of cycling with a wonderful personality full of warmth, respect, and obviously, taste.


----------



## fabsroman

The_Kraken said:


> I am really hoping that we could combine this thread with the PRZA thread and create the entire Old Testament! I can't believe I overlooked this thread. So, where do I put my chompers in to this one...so yummy!
> 
> My guess is that the majority of you guys, given that this is an Internet forum, are quite savvy when it comes to typing in Google searches and domain names. Therefore, I'm sure you will eventually find that one super deal that will come along and then rejoice in posting to the universe how much was saved. I even have a website for you: bonktown.com They are owned by backcountryoutlet.com. I was talking to an owner of an Italian frame company last week, in fact, that sells stuff to them. I am certain you will find an amazing deal.
> 
> With that said, while a couple of you handsome fellows are Pista Palace customers, the majority are not. I know that you guys will most likely never buy a bike from me. I am totally cool with that. And I get lots of emails and messages from you guys that I do my best to answer. I believe that I am a good a source as any to address your questions and problems. I say, buy your Colnago from whoever you want. I am here to promote the brand, not my shop. And this is a good place to unveil new paints and frames and have you guys do the dirty work of circulating those pictures throughout the Internet ether. In effect, you guys help with the marketing.
> 
> Last week I shipped 2 bikes to Australia, 1 to Korea, 1 to Hong Kong, a couple back east. Were they all at full retail? I dunno. Some were framesets, some were full bikes. I'm a pretty reasonable dude. And one thing I can assure you is that if there is some kind of Colnago or TIME you want, I have as good a chance as anyone in getting it for you.
> 
> But what do you want? You want a price, a deal, a bike? All the above? I believe you should always get what you want. Exactly what you want. No compromises. And that is that. But if it so happens you want one of our exclusive paint schemes, well, it just won't be at the probikekit.com price. And its not because I have higher rent, overhead, or anything like that. I simply have a desired margin I want to make. Are YOU going to offer your services at a discount? Chances are that at some point some guy in India or China will be able to. Or maybe you have a niche specialized job that only you can do. And if so, why would you discount yourself? Now we are on the same page.
> 
> My goals are clear with the Colnago brand and even Italy knows it. Pista Palace will only offer exclusive paint and frames that are not sold on-line. We may have a few of those, but the vast majority of our inventory will be exclusive. This is carving our niche and protecting our market. Maybe you will scream, no fair! My LBS owner should be able to order your frame. Well, have him call up Italy, the fact is, he can not. He is free to create his very own exclusive frame. But when Cambiago asks you to make a minimum order of 24 framesets and prepay for them and shipping, the chances are that he simply won't be able to. Besides, he has all the other bike brands to sell and Colnago isn't what he is invested in. Well, we are. That is the difference. We sweat and bleed and breathe Colnago. It is an obsession. While other bike shops are turning wrenches on Tri bikes and beach cruisers, we will continue to think of how we can embody the honest values and ideals that Ernesto Colnago represents.
> 
> Can you imagine meeting Ernesto and asking him for a discount on a bike? Seriously. The thought is embarrassing. As a dealer, sure, there are obstacles and hurdles but that is just part of business. It isn't supposed to be easy.
> 
> I will say this, though, there really is something special about seeing Paolo Bettini on our PR99 EPS that he requested we build for him. A legend of cycling with a wonderful personality full of warmth, respect, and obviously, taste.


Well said.

Now, just because an exclusive paint scheme cannot be offered online by an online retailer doesn't mean the online retailer cannot make a request to Colnago to obtain that exclusive paint scheme. Likewise, you post online and have a website of your own that shows the bikes you build and offer. Only difference is that there is no price listed for your frames that you show. People just have to take another step and actually call you, e-mail you, PM you, or contact you in some manner to find out what the price is. The other "online" retailer that show a price could very easily just change that to "Call for pricing on Colnago" if that will get them in the door for the exclusive paint schemes, or maybe they could just leave those exclusive paint schemes off the website but go ahead and obtain them if a customer asks for them through an e-mail, PM, telephone call, etc.

There seems to be some pretty gray area regarding these exclusive paint schemes. When I first started coming to this board, one guy went to great lengths to get a C50 in WC colors back in 2005 or 2006. He thought it was going to be an exclusive paint scheme and then Colnago ran with it the next year because it was so popular.

At the end of the day, I respect what you are doing and try to run my business the same way. I give discounts to certain people, but only certain people. Otherwise, everybody pays "retail" and almost every year I increase my rates to some small degree.

I also admire you laying out what you do on this board. Who knows, when I am independently wealthy, the extra $1,300 might not bother me, or the first $4,200. It was hard enough shelling out $3,150 for the C50.

Last I checked, ProBikeKit didn't sell Colnago, but I could be mistaken.


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## Clevor

Kraken, are you getting your Colnago frames via Colnago America, the 'official' Colnago distributor?


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## tofumann

*enough is enough?!*

I (purchased three bikes from Pista and spent at least 16 hrs watching him to build), for one, can say Pista is all about passion. Does that passion of his make me sleep better at night? No. As a matter of fact, he made me work harder so i could pay for this expensive hobby/sports that i'm passionate about. And because of Pista's passion, I got a chance to own something different. Does owning a PR99 (or any special bike) make me a better/special person? NO. But it certainly makes me look pretty:cryin: :cryin: 

Do I have a cycling kit from PBK? Hell yeah cuz they were cheap. Would I be the first one in line to get a Pista's kit (most likely cost more than PBK's) when his stock arrives? Sure thing!! 

小弟弟萬歲!!!!
View attachment 193398


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## The_Kraken

*Ahhh...the retail price...what is that exactly?*

To answer the recent questions, our frames come from Colnago America. This entity is effectively Colnago Italy however. I would compare it to say, the US and Puerto Rico. This means that effectively all decision making is done in Italy. Now, one could question if Italy understands the US market. If someone did raise that question someone might answer NO WAY JOSE! I'm not saying that is MY answer, I am simply saying that it is quite possible for that to be the answer to that question.

However, like Luke Skywalker or the Highlander, there may just be a chosen one to guide the future of the company. ME!!!!! In reality, who knows what the future may hold for Colnago, I can only hope that Ernesto is as immortal as his products.

With regards to Fabro, he is correct, I don't list ANY prices for ANY product on Pista Palace. I legally am entitled to sell any bike for whatever price I want. This is a fact. Just ask Campagnolo why they can't stop the sale of all the ebay stuff. It is for that exact reason. No European companies are able to enforce minimum retail pricing. A massive lawsuit awaits any company that tries to. All pricing is MSRP. SUGGESTED.

This gets into a much deeper question here. That of which something is worth. Because you assign a price to something is that what it will sell for? Of course not. An EPS will only sell for $5500 if a person believes it is worth that much, not because the manufacturer suggests it. Otherwise that manufacturer is left with a massive inventory of product which is then sold off at discount which in turn enters the market at discount and in the end effectively establishes that products price point.

It is FOCKING hilarious when sales reps and companies talk about margins and price points and all that other nonsense. It is as if YOU the consumer and going to obey their pricing rules and we as dealers will just stand at the cash register ringing up sales. I continue to scoff at that. As a dealer you have to live to the REAL WORLD. I study the dollar/euro exchange rates just as the manufacturers do. Interesting fact, one of the main reasons that the last distributor of Colnago went south is because of currency speculation. And when they lost, they tried to pass off the losses on wholesale pricing. What happened? Nobody wanted to buy $560 Sidi shoes and $6500 EPS frames. Now look at Sidi, they are stuck trying to unload legions of shoes that dealers never bought because someone thought it was a good idea to play the currency market. I would like to take credit for buying all of the EPS frames and 2009 C50's from them only because it was either we do that or give up the brand and watch as the hoards of discount dealers blew out the Veltec stock everywhere. Sure, a bit of that stuff did make it on the ebay, but never an EPS. You can't imagine what my garage looked like. 

"Call for pricing". Exactly. If you are genuinely interested in a frameset, you can call or email us and I'll give you a price. It is entirely between YOU and ME to determine what that frame is worth. That is what is called value. Fundamentally what something is worth is exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. And so long as what you are willing to pay for something is worth more than what I am willing to pay for it, than that beautiful frameset is yours.

Keep in mind that Pista Palace does not speak for Colnago, we are only a dealer. I have no problem publicly sharing any information I have with anyone. I figure it is best to disclose all information and answer all questions and address all problems to the best of our abilities. Honesty and Trust and the most important elements for developing a relationship between any two entities. And so when Pista Palace gives you their word, we stand behind it.


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## fabsroman

The_Kraken said:


> To answer the recent questions, our frames come from Colnago America. This entity is effectively Colnago Italy however. I would compare it to say, the US and Puerto Rico. This means that effectively all decision making is done in Italy. Now, one could question if Italy understands the US market. If someone did raise that question someone might answer NO WAY JOSE! I'm not saying that is MY answer, I am simply saying that it is quite possible for that to be the answer to that question.
> 
> However, like Luke Skywalker or the Highlander, there may just be a chosen one to guide the future of the company. ME!!!!! In reality, who knows what the future may hold for Colnago, I can only hope that Ernesto is as immortal as his products.
> 
> With regards to Fabro, he is correct, I don't list ANY prices for ANY product on Pista Palace. I legally am entitled to sell any bike for whatever price I want. This is a fact. Just ask Campagnolo why they can't stop the sale of all the ebay stuff. It is for that exact reason. No European companies are able to enforce minimum retail pricing. A massive lawsuit awaits any company that tries to. All pricing is MSRP. SUGGESTED.
> 
> This gets into a much deeper question here. That of which something is worth. Because you assign a price to something is that what it will sell for? Of course not. An EPS will only sell for $5500 if a person believes it is worth that much, not because the manufacturer suggests it. Otherwise that manufacturer is left with a massive inventory of product which is then sold off at discount which in turn enters the market at discount and in the end effectively establishes that products price point.
> 
> It is FOCKING hilarious when sales reps and companies talk about margins and price points and all that other nonsense. It is as if YOU the consumer and going to obey their pricing rules and we as dealers will just stand at the cash register ringing up sales. I continue to scoff at that. As a dealer you have to live to the REAL WORLD. I study the dollar/euro exchange rates just as the manufacturers do. Interesting fact, one of the main reasons that the last distributor of Colnago went south is because of currency speculation. And when they lost, they tried to pass off the losses on wholesale pricing. What happened? Nobody wanted to buy $560 Sidi shoes and $6500 EPS frames. Now look at Sidi, they are stuck trying to unload legions of shoes that dealers never bought because someone thought it was a good idea to play the currency market. I would like to take credit for buying all of the EPS frames and 2009 C50's from them only because it was either we do that or give up the brand and watch as the hoards of discount dealers blew out the Veltec stock everywhere. Sure, a bit of that stuff did make it on the ebay, but never an EPS. You can't imagine what my garage looked like.
> 
> "Call for pricing". Exactly. If you are genuinely interested in a frameset, you can call or email us and I'll give you a price. It is entirely between YOU and ME to determine what that frame is worth. That is what is called value. Fundamentally what something is worth is exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. And so long as what you are willing to pay for something is worth more than what I am willing to pay for it, than that beautiful frameset is yours.
> 
> Keep in mind that Pista Palace does not speak for Colnago, we are only a dealer. I have no problem publicly sharing any information I have with anyone. I figure it is best to disclose all information and answer all questions and address all problems to the best of our abilities. Honesty and Trust and the most important elements for developing a relationship between any two entities. And so when Pista Palace gives you their word, we stand behind it.


Was that you that was putting up all those EP's and Extreme C's on ebay? There was one guy that had 10 to 20 Colnagos on ebay right after Veltec started blowing them out. I think a couple CX-1's and CLX's were in there too. Pretty much the same shot of different frames from the same spot in the shop. One of my teammates got an Extreme Power for around $3,300 from an outlet, which I believe was in Colorado.


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## JeremyP

looking good tofumann!


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## traumabill

PBK now has Colnagos online...

Justin, do you do CX-1's and Flights also or just EPS/C-50's??



Bill


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## mtbbmet

Well it's time I weighed in to.
Colnago has a policy that a dealer cannot advertise a frame below MSRP, ever, unless it is old clear out stock. So what PP does, and what we do, to avoid pricing ourselves out of the market is to advertise with "call for pricing". If we, or PP, put $5500 as advertised price we would never sell any bikes. But if you call us we can talk about the real price.
And back to Fabsroman's issue with Colnago favouring certain dealers, it's called allocating stock to big/loyal customers. Everyone, in every industry does it to some degreee. Not every Specialized dealer has access to S-Works bikes. You have to book large and deep into the program in order to be "awarded" to privlidges of selling an S-Works bike at a 1.1 margin.
My wife is in the wine buisness. You think that any mom and pop beer store has access to first growth bordeaux? Nope. You want those premium products you have to buy 850 cases of $11 french table wine and another 300 cases of some over priced $90/bottle plonk. It's the way the world works. And the Italian company that the Kraken was refering to is Pinarello, he's just too nice to say it. I'm not. They dump all their dead stock to BCO and you can get frames for next to nothing on that site.


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## The_Kraken

*Cx-1*



traumabill said:


> PBK now has Colnagos online...
> 
> Justin, do you do CX-1's and Flights also or just EPS/C-50's??
> 
> 
> 
> Bill


Bill, we do CX-1's. We can order the whole line. After having Alessandro's in my hands it is something to consider. The thing is, the purple CX-1 you see is painted in Italy. Now, the entire production has been moved to Taiwan including paint. If we could do a matte black CX-1, I would do it. I'd even do the violet one. Just give me a CX-1 painted in Italy. I'll pay the higher price wholesale and give you the same price retail.


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## robert

I live in DC, and have bought my Colnagos online from cbike.com and competitivecyclist.com in the offseason when frames are on sale. City Bikes in Chevy Chase built up the bikes and continue to service them.


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