# Its over for Vino!



## ttug (May 14, 2004)

I believe after todays stage 9, we can conclude that Vino is NOT a contendahhhhhhhh.

Oh well.


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## chuckice (Aug 25, 2004)

Yeah, barring incident, can't see him leapfrogging Valverde or Cadel...staying healthy/safe the first week is so critical.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

Look for him to go on the attack soon.


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## Red Sox Junkie (Sep 15, 2005)

That's what I was thinking. If things are tight for the GC, I could see Vino attacking and make back some time with the teams fighting to figure out who should do the chase. Similar to the Landis attack (sans drugs), none of the teams seemed to want to take up the chase. Vino is great in solo efforts and it would not shock me in the least.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*well*



Red Sox Junkie said:


> That's what I was thinking. If things are tight for the GC, I could see Vino attacking and make back some time with the teams fighting to figure out who should do the chase. Similar to the Landis attack (sans drugs), none of the teams seemed to want to take up the chase. Vino is great in solo efforts and it would not shock me in the least.


The only opportunity would have to be stage 14. Anybody else see another option and please dont say the TT's because Valverde can do those rather well.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

Maybe he can attack for 5th on the Champs.

His heroism is unmatched.


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## cityeast (Sep 16, 2004)

The human body sets its own priorities - first is protecting vital organs, second is repairing itself. Winning a world-class cycling event is low on the list. 

Vino injuries, although not severe, are not exactly light either. His body is still working on the repair job, and that will tax him for a while. I don't see him coming back.


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## fleck (Mar 25, 2005)

with the peloton sans a patron... god knows what some of those teams will allow
Vino is a bit more well feared then Pereiro but who knows...

his only hope is the other teams get stupid.


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## chuckice (Aug 25, 2004)

He's down 8:05...unless Floyd gave him some leftover goodies he's done.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

teh moreon said:


> Maybe he can attack for 5th on the Champs.
> 
> His heroism is unmatched.


LOL!!!


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

Watch as he attacks the hanky with such fervor and resolve.

_but it's another hard day that I will have to try to overcome," said Vinokourov, before breaking down in tears, knowing his run at the 2007 Tour title is all but done. _


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## spongebartstatepants (Apr 12, 2006)

Red Sox Junkie said:


> Similar to the Landis attack (sans drugs)



I'm not sure about the sans drugs part.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

teh moreon said:


> Watch as he attacks the hanky with such fervor and resolve. [/I]


Dude, what's wrong with that? He's realizing his GC hopes are all but gone after dedicating his ENTIRE season to this cause. Frankly, I wouldn't write him off yet. If his body heals up Vino is going to be pulling some crazy attacks into the Pyrenees to claw back minutes and hopefully he'll do well on the two ITTs.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

fornaca68 said:
 

> If his body heals up Vino is going to be pulling some crazy attacks into the Pyrenees to claw back minutes and hopefully he'll do well on the two ITTs.


That's a pretty big "if" considering the truncated time frame.


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## snowman3 (Jul 20, 2002)

Pablo said:


> That's a pretty big "if" considering the truncated time frame.


As much as I'm rooting for Vino (and Levi), I'm afraid I have to agree. Too much damage and not enough time to recover. I'm still optimistic and would like to dream that he'll pull something together for a stage win. Maybe go out "guns blazing" or something.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

it's pretty brutal of the organizers to put a rest day in the middle of the alps. Clearly Vino wasn't the only guy blocked up back out today; Scheck, Menchov, Karpets and others also lost time. 

There's a long way to go - next Sat-Mon are killer days.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*yeah and the team knows it*

which is why they let Kloden go. Now the questiuon will be, did they hurt Kloden's chance by having him wait and pace?

meanwhile Levi loses little to no time, puts in very little effort and rides himself into peak form.

all the other contenders are burning matches while Levi is not.

Disco has played a very interesting hand

Contador is just fun to watch


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

atpjunkie said:


> which is why they let Kloden go. Now the questiuon will be, did they hurt Kloden's chance by having him wait and pace?
> 
> meanwhile Levi loses little to no time, puts in very little effort and rides himself into peak form.
> 
> ...



I don't know, levi looked like he was well into his matchbook today.


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## pedal power (Jun 16, 2007)

Vino - maybe next year. It`s going to be Valderde vs LL


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## karategirl (Aug 27, 2006)

pedal power said:


> Vino - maybe next year. It`s going to be Valderde vs LL


I really don't think Leipheimer has it. Everytime I looked at him he looked like he was hanging on allright, but in no position to attack or anything. Valverde is definitely in there. Maybe Evans and I am still going with Contador for the top three. 

I really wouldn't count Vino out, though. He's tough as nails, and I can see him gaining some time back through wild attacks.


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## kokothemonkey (Jul 7, 2004)

karategirl said:


> I really don't think Leipheimer has it. Everytime I looked at him he looked like he was hanging on allright, but in no position to attack or anything. Valverde is definitely in there. Maybe Evans and I am still going with Contador for the top three.
> 
> I really wouldn't count Vino out, though. He's tough as nails, and I can see him gaining some time back through wild attacks.


I agree, the only person who I think can hang with Vino's time trialing is Kloden, if they set Kloden free (which it sounds like they might have), I think it's his this year.


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## physasst (Oct 1, 2005)

*Yeah*



karategirl said:


> I really don't think Leipheimer has it. Everytime I looked at him he looked like he was hanging on allright, but in no position to attack or anything. Valverde is definitely in there. Maybe Evans and I am still going with Contador for the top three.
> 
> I really wouldn't count Vino out, though. He's tough as nails, and I can see him gaining some time back through wild attacks.



if Contador can keep attacking on the climbs like that, and not lose a lot of time in the TT, he has a VERY realistic chance of winning the whole thing. Kid just impresses the hell out of me.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*all I'm saying*

is Levi isn't even at 100% yet. his whole plan was to be peaking for the last week. If it is true then he's slightly off form (which would explain him not being able, or motivated to attack) and still being able to hang within TT striking distance and have something left for the last week. He's riding within himself, rarely standing and beingh able to hang with guys who are already having to dig really deep either attacking or responding.
If Levi is still getting stronger it could get interesting, annd that is based upon the 'if'.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

karategirl said:


> I really don't think Leipheimer has it. Everytime I looked at him he looked like he was hanging on allright, but in no position to attack or anything.


I think Levi was told his job today was one thing: to suck rasmussen's wheel. He did that fine. The only problem he got in was at the end when he could not attack his two other riders.

I am not convinced Levi has what it takes, but today he did exactly what the plan and the tactics called for. And if Disco is anything, it is a team with a plan.


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## smw (Mar 7, 2006)

atpjunkie said:


> is Levi isn't even at 100% yet. his whole plan was to be peaking for the last week. If it is true then he's slightly off form (which would explain him not being able, or motivated to attack) and still being able to hang within TT striking distance and have something left for the last week. He's riding within himself, rarely standing and beingh able to hang with guys who are already having to dig really deep either attacking or responding.
> If Levi is still getting stronger it could get interesting, annd that is based upon the 'if'.



Things are going great for Discovery. Popo and Contador attack, forcing the others to chase and pull Levi, or give up time to Contador and the stage leader. If Levi is getting stronger he will definately have the fresher legs come time for the Pyrenees. Chicken is having to work to hard and will crack at some point


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## ti-triodes (Aug 14, 2006)

teh moreon said:


> Watch as he attacks the hanky with such fervor and resolve.
> 
> _but it's another hard day that I will have to try to overcome," said Vinokourov, before breaking down in tears, knowing his run at the 2007 Tour title is all but done. _



LOL

I know he's called a "master tactician" or some such nonsense but I always thought he rode like a 4 year old. Riding as hard as you can and then cracking is stupidity, not tactics. I won't miss Vino.


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## BenWA (Aug 11, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> Now the questiuon will be, did they hurt Kloden's chance by having him wait and pace?


I don't know, but I'm putting my money on Kloden, and have been since the beginning of the tour. We'll see what happens.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

atpjunkie said:


> is Levi isn't even at 100% yet. his whole plan was to be peaking for the last week. If it is true then he's slightly off form (which would explain him not being able, or motivated to attack) and still being able to hang within TT striking distance and have something left for the last week. He's riding within himself, rarely standing and beingh able to hang with guys who are already having to dig really deep either attacking or responding.
> If Levi is still getting stronger it could get interesting, annd that is based upon the 'if'.


Forget Levi, I think Tommy Danielson will win TdF this year!!! He is only 62 years old and is a young up-and-coming hope for US.

I haven't seen much of him though so far... Oh, wait...


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## toronto-rider (Aug 16, 2002)

Nice to finally read a thread were people seem to know a bit about racing and the TDF.

I have been on this board for about 4 years, and this year is by far the worst in terms of posters who have no clue about racing and the TDF.

I thought bicycling forum was the one for newbies.

Any other forums where people know what’s going on?


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

toronto-rider said:


> Nice to finally read a thread were people seem to know a bit about racing and the TDF.
> 
> I have been on this board for about 4 years, and this year is by far the worst in terms of posters who have no clue about racing and the TDF.
> 
> ...


your 3l33t, clearly you should just be texting phil and paul not hanging with the unwashed masses on the web.


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## slowdave (Nov 29, 2005)

snowman3 said:


> As much as I'm rooting for Vino (and Levi), I'm afraid I have to agree. Too much damage and not enough time to recover. I'm still optimistic and would like to dream that he'll pull something together for a stage win. Maybe go out "guns blazing" or something.


Maybe go out guns blazing this is vino, give him a week or so and he will hit them so hard they will stagger, but by then i predict that he will have lost a good deal of time, but then i said Landis was gone about 3 hrs before he (with help) rode the peleton off his wheel too.
Valverde looks the goods, Kloden is sitting in nicely, Evans seems to be good for now, (i think short and sharp attacks are his game not longer ones like he attempted last night, levi has to attack and sastre well the alps have been ok but wait till he gets closer to home, and the chicken will be there untill he has to time trial then it will be entertaining to say the least.
dave


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*wow*



toronto-rider said:


> Nice to finally read a thread were people seem to know a bit about racing and the TDF.
> 
> I have been on this board for about 4 years, and this year is by far the worst in terms of posters who have no clue about racing and the TDF.
> 
> ...


Well, gosh, I have been watching bike races for 30 years and I can definitely say that you suck. Welcome to the club oh great one!


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2007)

The only thing that could put Vino in a position to podium at this point would be all the other GC riders going off the edge in the Pyrenees. I like Vino, but he's not superman.


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## stonecrd (Jun 12, 2007)

It should be interesting, I think the TT will decide whether Bruneel supports LL or Contador. Based on Contador's climbing in the Alps and watching LL the last few years I think Contrador may be better at both the TT and mountains. But clearly Bruneel is hedging his bets as he has both in place to contend. Kloden's rump will decide his fate, if he is not in major pain I would put my money on him.


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

Vino can take on everyone in the ITT's. He'll take at least 1 min out of Evans, Kloden, and Valverde. And 2-3 min out of Levi, Contador, Moreau, and Sastre. If he can do that twice he's in third behind Evans and Valverde, only 2.5-3 min back. He will attack in the Pyrenees and gain another 1.5 min on one stage, and 30 sec on another. He ain't gonna win this tour, but he'll make the podium. I think Evans is going to do it. Never thought I would think that. Rasmussan will lose massive amounts of time in the TT's. Likely he won't finish the tour in the top ten.


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## smw (Mar 7, 2006)

mtbbmet said:


> Vino can take on everyone in the ITT's. He'll take at least 1 min out of Evans, Kloden, and Valverde. And 2-3 min out of Levi, Contador, Moreau, and Sastre. If he can do that twice he's in third behind Evans and Valverde, only 2.5-3 min back. He will attack in the Pyrenees and gain another 1.5 min on one stage, and 30 sec on another. He ain't gonna win this tour, but he'll make the podium. I think Evans is going to do it. Never thought I would think that. Rasmussan will lose massive amounts of time in the TT's. Likely he won't finish the tour in the top ten.




 Face it, Vino just does'nt have it. He has suffered on every climb so far. If he's lucky he will make the top 10, but not likely.


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

smw said:


> Face it, Vino just does'nt have it. He has suffered on every climb so far. If he's lucky he will make the top 10, but not likely.


That's what Valverde said at the Vuelta last year.
He is only 5:30 back on the favs. He was 2:30 back from Valverde last fall after this many stages. He won by 1:20. It's not likely, but it's not impossible.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

karategirl said:


> I really don't think Leipheimer has it. Everytime I looked at him he looked like he was hanging on allright, but in no position to attack or anything. Valverde is definitely in there. Maybe Evans and I am still going with Contador for the top three.
> 
> I really wouldn't count Vino out, though. He's tough as nails, and I can see him gaining some time back through wild attacks.


Vino's knee wounds look like they're leaking and infected. Antibiotics make you weak. Also the body will cut back power to fight the infection.

Levi is very mediocre (top 10) but he looks to be improving. He says/hopes he will be better at the Pyrenees. What else can he say? He has to be optimistic for himself and his team right?

I don't think it was his plan to suck at the Alps and peak at the Pyrenees. That would be dumb. One has to be ready at the start of the race. Otherwise, the whole race can be lost pretty early. Also, the team will lose confidence in him and he will lose his place as team leader.

fc


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## smw (Mar 7, 2006)

francois said:


> Vino's knee wounds look like they're leaking and infected. Antibiotics make you weak. Also the body will cut back power to fight the infection.
> 
> Levi is very mediocre (top 10) but he looks to be improving. He says/hopes he will be better at the Pyrenees. What else can he say? He has to be optimistic for himself and his team right?
> 
> ...



Actually he said that was his plan over a month ago. Lets face it, he hasnt sucked. He is in the top 10! Time will tell and 2 more days. Contador is really the only one that hasnt showed weakness in the mountians. I think he could win the tour had the team focused on that, and he still may. I think he is capable of putting some serious time into the others. Half of these guys have ridden themselves ragged already.


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## nostromo (Apr 1, 2006)

ti-triodes said:


> LOL
> 
> I know he's called a "master tactician" or some such nonsense but I always thought he rode like a 4 year old. Riding as hard as you can and then cracking is stupidity, not tactics. I won't miss Vino.


He has done some dumb rides, but sometimes it comes off; beating the sprinters in Paris was awesome.


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

He's coming back, one rider at a time. He'll be top ten by Saturday, and even higher by the end of Sunday's stage.


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## StormShadow (Feb 27, 2005)

mtbbmet said:


> He's coming back, one rider at a time. He'll be top ten by Saturday, and even higher by the end of Sunday's stage.


He probably has the same chance of getting gangrene. His right knee looks nasty.:blush2:


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## richk (Dec 30, 2006)

ttug said:


> The only opportunity would have to be stage 14. Anybody else see another option and please dont say the TT's because Valverde can do those rather well.


Well looks like vino might be a contendahh agin......................


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

The guy had 60 stitches a week ago. Today he smoked the TdF field by over a minute.

Seriously. That's some serious balls. The guy probably needs the XL Testosterone patches.

He's still my favorite rider though.


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## nostromo (Apr 1, 2006)

FondriestFan said:


> The guy had 60 stitches a week ago. Today he smoked the TdF field by over a minute.
> 
> Seriously. That's some serious balls. The guy probably needs the XL Testosterone patches.
> 
> He's still my favorite rider though.


Nah didn't you read? he's finished, according to the Oracles on this thread. 
Someone forgot to tell Vino that.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

ti-triodes said:


> LOL
> 
> I know he's called a "master tactician" or some such nonsense but I always thought he rode like a 4 year old. Riding as hard as you can and then cracking is stupidity, not tactics. I won't miss Vino.


I really enjoy such top notch tactical reviews.  

Seriously, it's amazing how many crackers who dream of a Top 10 in the Cat 5s opine on the tactical shortcomings of riders who have won Grand Tours before.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

smw said:


> Face it, Vino just does'nt have it. He has suffered on every climb so far. If he's lucky he will make the top 10, but not likely.


^ pwned


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## MarcelDuchamp (Jan 22, 2004)

mtbbmet said:


> Vino can take on everyone in the ITT's. He'll take at least 1 min out of Evans, Kloden, and Valverde. And 2-3 min out of Levi, Contador, Moreau, and Sastre. If he can do that twice he's in third behind Evans and Valverde, only 2.5-3 min back. He will attack in the Pyrenees and gain another 1.5 min on one stage, and 30 sec on another. He ain't gonna win this tour, but he'll make the podium. I think Evans is going to do it. Never thought I would think that. Rasmussan will lose massive amounts of time in the TT's. Likely he won't finish the tour in the top ten.



well done sir


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## shabbasuraj (May 14, 2005)

Vino is crazy sick...

I always knew that one cannot count him out..

He basically pwned the everyone today, and single-handedly demolished the peloton 2 stages ago...

he is back and FA_REAL.......



and oh yeah.. Kloden is also a MEAN cat.....geez.. what a 1-2 combo..


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

mtbbmet said:


> Vino can take on everyone in the ITT's. He'll take at least 1 min out of Evans, Kloden, and Valverde. And 2-3 min out of Levi, Contador, Moreau, and Sastre. If he can do that twice he's in third behind Evans and Valverde, only 2.5-3 min back. He will attack in the Pyrenees and gain another 1.5 min on one stage, and 30 sec on another. He ain't gonna win this tour, but he'll make the podium. I think Evans is going to do it. Never thought I would think that. Rasmussan will lose massive amounts of time in the TT's. Likely he won't finish the tour in the top ten.


mtbbmet = money


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## allons-y (Nov 15, 2006)

FondriestFan said:


> mtbbmet = money


except for the fact that he said chicken was gonna get p0wn3d in the TT's. granted there is still one to go, but given the one today....i think a top 10 for chicken (barring him cracking in the mtns, which is rather unlikely) is a pretty safe bet the way things are unfolding. In fact, the chickens TT was prbly more significant to the tour and g.c. then vino's win. vino is back, but that win is nothing new for him. he has been and will continue to be a beast. 

but who knew chicken could tt well enough to save his jersey? no one, and i mean no one (well im sure someone, but very few people) predicted or saw that coming....other than rasmusson and his mother.


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## dwwheels (Feb 28, 2007)

ttug said:


> The only opportunity would have to be stage 14. Anybody else see another option and please dont say the TT's because Valverde can do those rather well.



Did someone see the chicken around here? Valverde did.


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## tete de la tour (Oct 26, 2006)

shabbasuraj said:


> Vino is crazy sick...
> 
> I always knew that one cannot count him out..
> 
> ...


The only problem I see with Kloden is he is " Fine China " right now. I'm afraid that a small gust might put him out of the tour. 

:idea: I think they will send Kloden or KIrkioiahofskjn out on attack early tommorrow, which Contrador and Evans will follow and then Vino will pace thru with Levi and Sastre (because they don't get to caught up in attacks). And when they are finally breathing deep he will put a massive effort in to end the day. Actually I think im day dreaming, but as long as that coward scumbag leech Valverde has nothing going on I am pumped.


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## shabbasuraj (May 14, 2005)

tete de la tour said:


> The only problem I see with Kloden is he is " Fine China " right now. I'm afraid that a small gust might put him out of the tour.
> 
> :idea: I think they will send Kloden or KIrkioiahofskjn out on attack early tommorrow, which Contrador and Evans will follow and then Vino will pace thru with Levi and Sastre (because they don't get to caught up in attacks). And when they are finally breathing deep he will put a massive effort in to end the day. Actually I think im day dreaming, but as long as that coward scumbag leech Valverde has nothing going on I am pumped.



ya the other problem is they are not the BEST of friends......

allegedly


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

yup the fat lady has sing...


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## JohnnyChance (Dec 13, 2006)

81.	VINOKOUROV Alexandre	191	ASTANA	5h 54' 38"	+ 28' 50"

yikes.


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## ti-triodes (Aug 14, 2006)

FondriestFan said:


> I really enjoy such top notch tactical reviews.
> 
> Seriously, it's amazing how many crackers who dream of a Top 10 in the Cat 5s opine on the tactical shortcomings of riders who have won Grand Tours before.



Almost as amazing as someone who can't take a little criticism of his favorite rider. 


Is Vino done enough for you yet?:


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