# Did Allen Lim know about LA doping? did he help?



## multirider (Nov 5, 2007)

I keep wondering who else knew, who else aided and abetted USPS in doping.

Allen Lim must have been digging through all the performance data, right? He must have seen the bumps in watts/kg and been involved in conversations where "the program" was included in the discussion, right?

Did Allen Lim know about the doping? did he help?


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

I would think anyone that was involved with the team in coaching or high up in the administration had to know what was going on. They all have to be suspect.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Lim must have known something was up. Even if he just looked the other way and did not participate or facilitate it, he still must have known.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

He claims no knowledge.

He also claims to be one of the brightest sports medicine guys in the sport today.

We all know he has his image and sports training clinic to worry about.

"I'm the smartest guy in sports medicine in the history of sports medicine" "oh, and by the way I had NO knowledge of any PED use by the athletes I was coaching"

If true, one could make the argument he's really NOT that bright.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

metoou2 said:


> He claims no knowledge.
> 
> He also claims to be one of the brightest sports medicine guys in the sport today.
> 
> ...


Note, he said he had no knowledge, and depending on what is knowledge in his own mind (eg, is it first-hand direct knowledge? is it he says- she says?), he could be right in his answer. However, this doesn't mean he had no suspicions. Did anyone phrase the question asking him he had strong suspisions some of athletes were doping beyond his usual high-priced vitamins?


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## jjjdc1 (Oct 3, 2006)

What about the team chiropractor Jeff Spencer? He was with the team for all of LAs wins. I wonder how much he knew. I have been to seminars by him and he uses his time with LA, USPS and Astana as selling points for his classes.

Josh


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Ferrari was big on diet and nutrition--there's no way he didn't coordinate with Lim.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

View attachment 272166


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## superflylondon (Aug 24, 2008)

I am still surprised in all those shots/infusions that no needle mark or bruising was spotted or photographed on LA during these years.

As for Lim, I think LA hid it from anyone who he suspected might be a rat.


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## 196nautique (Sep 23, 2005)

In Floyd Landis' letter to the UCI, Floyd claims that in 2005 he hired Lim as his assistant to help with details and logistics of blood transfusions. "He helped Levi Leipheimer and me and made sure they were kept at the proper temperature."

I'd say Lim not only knew what was happening, but was pretty involved. He seems to have been ignored up to this point.

Assuming Floyd is back to actually telling the truth this time...........


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

superflylondon said:


> I am still surprised in all those shots/infusions that no needle mark or bruising was spotted or photographed on LA during these years.
> 
> As for Lim, I think LA hid it from anyone who he suspected might be a rat.


I think that Emma O'Reilly claimed that he'd come to her and ask her to apply make-up to hide them.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Lim was quizzed about what Landis had said.
Lim replied that Landis had a vendetta against him.

Now where have I heard that defense before?


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

mpre53 said:


> View attachment 272166


"I know nut-ting!"


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

If one can believe Landis - I think the OP has his answer.

While niether Landis nor Hamilton are paragons of virtue - I think that enough of what they have claimed has been proven out or at the very least been supported by the USADA report - so what they write needs to be taken seriously.

I suspect Lim was knee-deep in it at the least.


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## multirider (Nov 5, 2007)

*Sad, sad, sad*



LostViking said:


> If one can believe Landis - I think the OP has his answer.
> 
> While niether Landis nor Hamilton are paragons of virtue - I think that enough of what they have claimed has been proven out or at the very least been supported by the USADA report - so what they write needs to be taken seriously.
> 
> I suspect Lim was knee-deep in it at the least.


I didn't want to jump to a conclusion, but it seems logical and the most likely scenario. Since I hadn't seen Lim's role being discussed, I was wondering if Lim was over-looked or if I had missed something. Sounds like Landis mentioned him, but he's pretty close to over-looked.

I hadn't thought about Jeff Spencer, but it sure makes sense that he knew about The Program. I'm not sure what years he was associated with Lance, but he certainly would have known about fictitious saddle sores as a cover for testing positive for steroids. 

Though I think the whole thing is sad and would like it to be over and done with, I think it is important that it be dealt with thoroughly. Thus I hope that Lim and Spencer are held responsible for their involvement/contribution and some meaningful consequence is levied.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Lim pretty much lived with Landis during the lead up to the 2006 TdF (Landis' book). There was no way he did not know. It is more likely that he was hired specifically to run his doping program.


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## superflylondon (Aug 24, 2008)

I remember reading that as it was before a physical or something he had to give. I am just surprised it never stood out on his arms where a jersey. i am think it was done at the upper arm near the pit or down below.

If Lim was with Floyd during that 06 tdf that he would have for sure known that lance was pumped up.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

My money is on Lim knowing exactly what was happening all the time.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

I think any professional 'sports medicine' guy knew, otherwise he clearly doesn't know what he's doing


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## King Arthur (Nov 13, 2009)

He had knowledge that athletes were doping no doubt. He only turned a "blind eye" toward it like everyone else did, and then profited from it. Too bad he won't give all the money back he made from it.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

I don't have any facts. But I remember some piece of TdF interview/coverage where he was being interviewed over footage of Landis' "amazing day" where he was all about it being magical diet and aminos, etc. How these w/kg's were perfectly attainable through good diet, blah blah. 

And back then, he was heap-big expert, with deep power analysis, supplementation guru-ness, diet, and so on. 

Then after the excrement hit the air handler, he suddenly was just a geeky fanbois, riding along on the bus and making rice cakes for his buds. Um, yeah. I've had trouble with his story line for a while, just never had anything specific to pin it on.


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## the mayor (Jul 8, 2004)

Lim and Jens V were 2 lonely guys hanging out in the hotel hallway...just chattting...when all the needles were happening.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

rydbyk said:


> My money is on Lim knowing exactly what was happening all the time.


My guess, as well. But since he's a fame wh0re, "Dr." Lim was happy to ride the Lance train while he could.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

the mayor said:


> Lim and Jens V were 2 lonely guys hanging out in the hotel hallway...just chattting...when all the needles were happening.


Shhhh- no one wants to believe the awesomeness that is Jens was... well, you know.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

danl1 said:


> I don't have any facts. But I remember some piece of TdF interview/coverage where he was being interviewed over footage of Landis' "amazing day" where he was all about it being magical diet and aminos, etc. How these w/kg's were perfectly attainable through good diet, blah blah.


I thought he made a big thing about the cooling strategy they had worked out by dumping all those cold water bidons over his head on his solo.


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## hummina shadeeba (Oct 15, 2009)

funny how he was pushing the pluses of beet juice, which looks just like blood. I can see him confusing the two and serving the team the blood by mistake.


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## multirider (Nov 5, 2007)

How about Joe Friel? Is there any reason to suspect he was coaching pros who were juiced?


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

If I heard Lim say, "our athletes eat food that comes in its own wrapper" O N E M O R E T I M E.............I was going to strangle the guy.

Now I wonder what he REALLY meant by that.


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