# C59 with Sram Red 2012



## Sisbud

Thinking about getting Colnago C59 in Nero color.
However, i have never seen one being built using Sram Red 2012.
Does anyone have any C59 with Sram Red 2012?
Whenever i search online, i see most of the C59 are only being built with either campagnolo or dura ace.
And, this bike would be mainly used for my climcbing bike? Which setup is better campy or sram red? Thanks


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## campyc40

I think you can get arrested in Italy when you put SRAM on a Colnago.


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## Salsa_Lover

Booooo !


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## icsloppl

You're looking at 2 questions -

Is it wrong/abnormal to build a C-59 with SRAM?
Traditionally, Colnagos were strongly tied with Campy. The Europcar team still uses Campy. The new models have lost much of the traditional looks however. The NERO in particular looks a lot like a Giant or many other CF frames. Put whatever you want on it. 

Here's images of both -

Weight Weenies • View topic - brand new 2012 frameset Colnago C59 size 50 slope for sale

Is Red 2012 as good as Campy? 
Yes. Probably better in most regards. That wasn't the case of previous Red's.
It weighs less than any Campy group and costs less than all but Chorus, at least in U.S. locations.


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## j.knight

I have a c59 with the new Sram Red with the execption of the rear Der. I have a Force der. Works great. Especially the front der. Really a huge improvement there. Bike weighs just over or just under 15lbs. depending on the scale.


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## Sisbud

icsloppl said:


> You're looking at 2 questions -
> 
> Is it wrong/abnormal to build a C-59 with SRAM?
> Traditionally, Colnagos were strongly tied with Campy. The Europcar team still uses Campy. The new models have lost much of the traditional looks however. The NERO in particular looks a lot like a Giant or many other CF frames. Put whatever you want on it.
> 
> Here's images of both -
> 
> Weight Weenies • View topic - brand new 2012 frameset Colnago C59 size 50 slope for sale
> 
> Is Red 2012 as good as Campy?
> Yes. Probably better in most regards. That wasn't the case of previous Red's.
> It weighs less than any Campy group and costs less than all but Chorus, at least in U.S. locations.


Thanks for your helpful input. I am thinking on the actual performance aspect as well other than the appearance. If you are to be put in my position, which group would you go for?


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## Sisbud

j.knight said:


> I have a c59 with the new Sram Red with the execption of the rear Der. I have a Force der. Works great. Especially the front der. Really a huge improvement there. Bike weighs just over or just under 15lbs. depending on the scale.


Can you post a picture?

Thanks


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## icsloppl

Sisbud said:


> Thanks for your helpful input. I am thinking on the actual performance aspect as well other than the appearance. If you are to be put in my position, which group would you go for?


It's an interesting question and one that's not easy. The new Red is the most interesting group and apparently functions much better than previous while being lighter still. On the other hand DA 7900 can now be had very inexpensively due to the 9000 rollout, making it a tremendous bargain if money is at all a consideration.

Realistically every top group, SR, DA, RED work so well now that there is little functional advantage. One consideration that should be taken into account is which wheel set you intend to use. If it's Campy or Fulcrum, you could go with a non-Campy group, but it would look very odd. Same with Shimano wheels and groups. Their CL24 carbon hybrid clinchers are very appealing for instance. IMO pick you wheels and let the group follow.


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## Sisbud

icsloppl said:


> It's an interesting question and one that's not easy. The new Red is the most interesting group and apparently functions much better than previous while being lighter still. On the other hand DA 7900 can now be had very inexpensively due to the 9000 rollout, making it a tremendous bargain if money is at all a consideration.
> 
> Realistically every top group, SR, DA, RED work so well now that there is little functional advantage. One consideration that should be taken into account is which wheel set you intend to use. If it's Campy or Fulcrum, you could go with a non-Campy group, but it would look very odd. Same with Shimano wheels and groups. Their CL24 carbon hybrid clinchers are very appealing for instance. IMO pick you wheels and let the group follow.


That is an interesting take and one which i have not considered. 
I was contemplating to get the hyperon ultra two, however at the end of the day i decided to use mavic ccu with he build


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## icsloppl

Sisbud said:


> That is an interesting take and one which i have not considered.
> I was contemplating to get the hyperon ultra two, however at the end of the day i decided to use mavic ccu with he build


Close to what you will have here -

Weight Weenies • View topic - High End Wheelset Review- Mavic CCU, LW, Bora, Edge, 303

Full CF wheels aren't particularly esthetic IMO but they go with any group visually. The whole thing is so modern-loking that the new RED would seem rather appropriate, since most of the "trad" Colnago vibe isn't present anyway. Just IMO...


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## Sisbud

Thank you so much for all your comments and links....
They helped a lot. I guess at the end of the day it would be more of personal preferences to both esthetic and functionality.
In regards to ergonomics, do you experience problem with how SR11 uses the thumb shifter? Some people are actually having issues with the positioning especialliy when you are in the drop


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## Karbon Kev

dear oh dear, i'd rather see shimano on a C59 than anything Sram produces, and i don't like shimano. Campagnolo all the way for me.


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## icsloppl

Sisbud said:


> Thank you so much for all your comments and links....
> They helped a lot. I guess at the end of the day it would be more of personal preferences to both esthetic and functionality.
> In regards to ergonomics, do you experience problem with how SR11 uses the thumb shifter? Some people are actually having issues with the positioning especialliy when you are in the drop


If you use "modern" short drop bars like Ergosums or similar you won't have an issue unless you have very small hands. Small hands and deep drops might create a reach issue, but that would be a fitting error IMO.


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## andyoo

why even listen to them, the thought of having a thumb shifter on the drop already got me far away from Campy on C59. I had build a C59 with old red TDF and now I am in process of swapping them out for 2012 sram red. Right now I already have the crank and casette changed and is now waiting for the rear/front derailleur and brakes to arrive.
As for the shifters...I am still waiting until price is right...
The new group is so light it my bike is already just 1 oz above 15 lb for a 52cm frame.
The new casette shifts quietly compare to my other DA bike unlik the old red casette.
Front deraileur should be stronger than the Ti old version and does not need trimming
like in DA and Campy.
Yea, it's not 11 speed and that's the only down side...upside it's one less gear plate lighter and you might not need the extra gear ratio..depends on where you ride.


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## MXL

campyc40 said:


> I think you can get arrested in Italy when you put SRAM on a Colnago.


At least arrested, good chance you'll burn in Hell!  

If you want to go with SRAM you can always get one of the cheaper Asian Colnagos like an CLX, CX1 or M10.


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## andyoo

Who cares. it's your bike. all the top level groupset are TDF worthy.
Most rider is probably the one that is the weakest link . lol.


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## MXL

andyoo said:


> Who cares. it's your bike. all the top level groupset are TDF worthy.
> Most rider is probably the one that is the weakest link . lol.


Putting Shimano on a fine Italian frame is like farting in church - you can do it, but's not proper...and it stinks.


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## Ronde

For over a decade one of, if not the greatest cycling team of all time rode to victory on many Sundays. Their Shimano equipped Italian frames didn't stink and they were properly the envy of the peloton.


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## MXL

Ronde said:


> For over a decade one of, if not the greatest cycling team of all time rode to victory on many Sundays. Their Shimano equipped Italian frames didn't stink and they were properly the envy of the peloton.


I didn't say it wouldn't work, I said it's not proper.


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## Ronde

Au contraire winning with the better group at the time is proper. Today though I would shod any new C59 with Campy, but 7700 befits certain C40's because of the pedigree.


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## andyoo

what's not proper...everything is still old school. thumb shifter, all the adjustment on cable,
double of the price and plus all new special tools on almost everything. For the price my friend spend on a record groupset (not even super record) + price of all the new special tools he need to re-purchase , like a 250$ chain pin tool that kind of price range, I can spend that on a DA 9700 group set + a SRAM red group set and both are better function and lighter. It's just buying for history and brand name and blink factor because people just have to have 'all italian or nothing' ...like a spoiled princess rolling on the floor making irrational demand to her parents.
If DA is good enough for Ernesto Colnago to make his bikes, who is to say it's not worth it or not proper. you don't even come close to be a expert like him...just saying.
Lance Armstrong uses Red...


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## andyoo

oh...and no brake quick open ? you have to use tool? yuck


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## MXL

andyoo said:


> what's not proper...everything is still old school. thumb shifter, all the adjustment on cable,
> double of the price and plus all new special tools on almost everything. For the price my friend spend on a record groupset (not even super record) + price of all the new special tools he need to re-purchase , like a 250$ chain pin tool that kind of price range, I can spend that on a DA 9700 group set + a SRAM red group set and both are better function and lighter. It's just buying for history and brand name and blink factor because people just have to have 'all italian or nothing' ...like a spoiled princess rolling on the floor making irrational demand to her parents.
> If DA is good enough for Ernesto Colnago to make his bikes, who is to say it's not worth it or not proper. you don't even come close to be a expert like him...just saying.
> Lance Armstrong uses Red...


Just a hardcore Campy guy having fun.


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## bottecchia_eja

campyc40 said:


> I think you can get arrested in Italy when you put SRAM on a Colnago.


Angels cry in heaven whenever a Colnago is fitted with SRAM.


Why are you so cruel that you wanna make angels cry, eh?


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## andyoo

Not sure about that.
I have the new sram red 2012 cassette on and it's slient like Dura Ace.
Also has the crankset on and it looks nice.
I have the front derailleur and shifters now and just waiting for the rear derailleur and brakes to arrive from france (price was way better than US and UK). It's going to be a sweet ride.
I have zipp 404 on it and vittoria open corsa evo cx and vittoria latex tube on them and they ride fast and smooth.


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## efuentes

Ronde said:


> For over a decade one of, if not the greatest cycling team of all time rode to victory on many Sundays. Their Shimano equipped Italian frames didn't stink and they were properly the envy of the peloton.


A Colnago Mapei should only use Dura Ace, thats the way things are, should be a velomenati rule or something


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## andyoo

The greatest cyclist of them all .... Armstrong use Red... 
Actually use whatever you like as long as it's not bottom walmart groupset.


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## Coastrider

You can put Sram on that Beautiful C59 but WHY??


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## bottecchia_eja

Different strokes for different folks...for me it is Campy on all my road bikes. I have used DA and Ultegra in the past and I am happy to be back with Campy.


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## mando54

I like the campy. It functions flawlessly and I haven't had any issues with it. I had a similar experience with DA, but I figured since I was building an Italian bike, I'd go with Campy. Runny Bora's also. As for Red, everything may be perfect, I just can't stand the double tap shifting. Until they change that, I won't have it on any bike 2011 also made a ton of noise. Idk if they fixed that for 2012.


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## Schell19

Had DA on my Dream and putting 2012 SRAM Red on my new M10 build. No apologies!


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## Pirx

andyoo said:


> thumb shifter,


And? Have you ever tried those shifters? Would you like to tell us what the issue might be with them?



andyoo said:


> all the adjustment on cable,


No idea what you could be talking about. Care to elaborate?



andyoo said:


> I can spend that on a DA 9700 group set + a SRAM red group set and both are better function and lighter.


Better function? Again, have you ever ridden a Campy-equipped bike? Lighter? Alright, I'll ask you now: Do you have any clue at all what it is you are talking about?



andyoo said:


> oh...and no brake quick open ? you have to use tool? yuck


What on Earth are you going on about now? But, that answers my questions from above: Yep, you clearly have no clue. Why don't you go and find out why Campy's brake release is far superior to the primitive system that Shimano and SRAM use for this function. Come back once you know how this works.


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## bottecchia_eja

andyoo said:


> The greatest cyclist of them all .... Armstrong use Red...
> Actually use whatever you like as long as it's not bottom walmart groupset.


No, the greatest cyclist of all time (by all accounts) was Eddy Merckx.

He used Campy.


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## enr1co

bottecchia_eja said:


> Different strokes for different folks...for me it is Campy on all my road bikes. I have used DA and Ultegra in the past and I am happy to be back with Campy.


+1 on "different strokes" and Merckx :thumbsup:

IMHO, all the groups work well but comes down to one's *personal *feel and perceived design. 

If "gifted" one but only one grouppo, my personal preference would be:

1- Campy
2- SRAM
3- Shimano

I've also have opportunity to try all the groups and its Campy for me in both the function and aesthetic catagories. 

The "thumb" downshift design for me just feels the most intuitive. I also like the SRAM double tap feel - and the new Red is even more refined. Shimano would be my last choice, as I really dont care for that "floppy" main lever design controlling both shifting and braking. ( just picked up an M 10 that came w/ Durace but will live w/ it until finances allow me to swap it out for Campy)


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## Zampano

enr1co said:


> I've also have opportunity to try all the groups and its Campy for me in both the function and aesthetic catagories.
> 
> *The "thumb" downshift design for me just feels the most intuitive. * I also like the SRAM double tap feel - and the new Red is even more refined.



How *intuitive* is the Campy thumb shift from the drops, for the non-elite racer in sprints?


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## Salsa_Lover

no problem at all to shift with the thumb shifter from 

- hooks 
- tops
- hoods
- ramps

from the drops you can't shift in any of the offerings

with shimano or SRAM you can't shift from tops or ramps.

Lexicon.


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## Pirx

Zampano said:


> How *intuitive* is the Campy thumb shift from the drops, for the non-elite racer in sprints?


Perfectly intuitive. Ever tried it?


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## bottecchia_eja

Zampano said:


> How *intuitive* is the Campy thumb shift from the drops, for the non-elite racer in sprints?


I am a short, chubby old rider with small hands. The Campy thumb shifter is the most intuitive to date. I really disliked the Shimano (DuraAce and Ultegra) floppy shifters.

The new Campy (I have Record 11V on the Colnago and Bianchi and Athena 11V on the Bottecchia) shifts quick and smoothly. 

Campy all the way for me.


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## bottecchia_eja

Salsa_Lover said:


> no problem at all to shift with the thumb shifter from
> 
> - hooks
> - tops
> - hoods
> - ramps
> 
> from the drops you can't shift in any of the offerings
> 
> with shimano or SRAM you can't shift from tops or ramps.
> 
> Lexicon.


Nicely done...I will rep you for that.


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## enr1co

Zampano said:


> How *intuitive* is the Campy thumb shift from the drops, for the non-elite racer in sprints?



Not so intuitive if in the drops- shifting would be difficult with any brand shifter from the drops. 

If in the hooks or hoods, shifting can be accomplished with any brand shfter. For me its intuative as my thumbs naturally rest on the thumb shifters when on the hoods or are in easy reach if in the hooks. 

BTW- As a old once upon a time crit dog, if I'm going in my drops for a flat out sprint, I've made the decision on a gear and committed to what I believe my legs will be able to turn from start to top end.


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## Zampano

Agree enr1co. It was a slightly off question, because I can't shift from the drops standing on the pedals under full power, but I think you got my point. BTW, for my current SRAM set up I can up shift from the drops without releasing right hand grip. That I call intuitive.

Salsa_Lover, nice diagram but I don't use the ramps, and shifting from the tops has never been a concern. My last Campy equipped bike below, and I had '95 "BB System" Record before that. I've used every Record gruppo from Nuovo to Ergo, including two of Super Record. I have Chorus 11 on order to arrive next week, but the intuitiveness of the SRAM configuration is a thing that will be missed.


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## Salsa_Lover

Graph courtesy if la rueda tropical

http://ruedatropical.com/2009/03/road-drop-bar-geometry/

Btw you should experiment with the ramps. It is a really useful position that I employ a lot.

Ramps is my "cruising" position, and from there the thumb shifter and the shifter lever are at perfect reach.

When I am "motoring" it I am on the hoods. Also when climbing and off the saddle

When "putting the hammer down" on the hooks.

When going "all out" on the drops.

Very seldom on the tops.

Many people have lost the useful ramps because of this fad if using short reach compact handlebars with a short and flat transition between tops and hoods.

On a nice traditional bend handlebars like the 3T rotundo for example you have very nice and usable ramps where your hands can find the perfect descending position to the hoods that are actually lower than the tops.


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## Zampano

Out of habit my cruise postion is in the tops. 

I will admit 35% of the reason I am going back to Campy is emotion.The main reason is I'm tired of my shifting performance with SRAM, and I could easily live with it, but want better and will play for the last percentage closer to perfection.

I've owned two Colnago, the one above and a mid 80's Master, and have a Master xl on layaway. My first serious bike was a '76 Cinelli Super Corsa, which went through Nuovo, Super Record and had C-Record when stolen. Its nice to be authentic and in style, but my encouragement is for riders to choose the groupset that best fits their ergonomic needs.


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## icsloppl

Few modern bars have retained the classic curved form. They're more like this, no? -










The 3 actual positions are the tops, hoods, and drops, where the drops are the flat sections below the lever position. There's no longer enough flat area below this position to hold onto, eliminating the "classic" drop position.
This type of bar works to the advantage of Campy shifters, as the vertical drop to the drop position is reduced, putting your hands/thumbs closer to the lever postion. 

IMO the Campy system is superior both when climbing on the hoods, since your thumbs are already in postion to shift, and when braking, since obviously you can pull strait back on the brake lever.
The other systems are easier to use in the drops, since you don't have to make a move with your thumb that's both long and that looses some degree of control of the bars as you effectively open your grip to place your thumb.


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## Zampano

Those "ergo" handlebars in the pic above was for me an aberration. Up to that point I'd been using the Cinelli 66 for a long time. As might be seen from the hubs, I'd gotten the entire build kit from Colorado Cyclist and those were the bars that were available.

I like and have on hand the classic Deda 215/Newton Shallow, which will give closer access the thumb shifters, especially if the brake levers are set lower than flat ramp style. Have been using the Deda Zero100 with SRAM, so will use those for a while with Chorus 11 to ease the transition, before going to the Newton.


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## andyoo

Thumb or lever shifting is better? it's your personal choice. If thumb shifting is that great why so many pro also use lever shifting? Most bike you buy in U.S. does not come with campy unless you custom build. Lever shifting is how I learned and that's what I am used to. I had shimano 5600 shifters before and I do not like thumb shifting. Blame it on my thumb that is not as long as your big hands. With small hand, it's hard(er) to shift on the drop using thumb.
As for which groupo is better, it's your personal choice, there is die hard campy user and die hard 
shimano or sram fans. Personally I like sram's double shift. That's my choice. Some people even said all these manual shifting is so outdated and should use Di2... you like your campy on your bike and I love my SRAM red on my Colnago C59.


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## bon_gabs

Can I still be arrested in Italy with this set-up? Im so open for your wildest comments,ideas,recommendations and suggestions,,not finalized yet so everything can still be modify.


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## Dajianshan

For me, on a climbing bike I would use Campy just for the thumb shifter. I am rarely in the drops on a climb, but there are times I want to downshift on some sections where I think I can out grind the competition. A quick pinky shift from the bar tops or a thumb swipe from the hoods means I don't have to change position to downshift. Maybe that is just my riding style on a climb.


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## colorider7

Yo Pirx -- You failed to rebut the fact that "Lance" apparently uses SRAM Red! Kidding of course. Holy crap. What a "poser" the Campy hater is. Campy rules. Period. More thought goes into the Campy brake hoods, for example, than the whole SRAM groupo. Moreover, if you have actually tried Campy and don't like it -- Godspeed. I can see why some would like Dura Ace and SRAM, as each have solid qualities. But you can't categorically claim that Campy doesn't perform as against the others. Come on...


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## colorider7

bon_gabs said:


> Can I still be arrested in Italy with this set-up? Im so open for your wildest comments,ideas,recommendations and suggestions,,not finalized yet so everything can still be modify.


Yes. In fact, I think you can get arrested for anything other than Campy Bora Ultras on a C59 if riding in Italy (apparently). Personally, I think Enve wheel sets are awesome. Not sure what "Enve" might translate into in Italian, but my guess is that it isn't good. In any event, I plan to throw Enve 3.4 clinchers on my new C59, and I am ready to resist arrest. Good riding...


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## MXL

enr1co said:


> +1 on "different strokes" and Merckx :thumbsup:
> 
> IMHO, all the groups work well but comes down to one's *personal *feel and perceived design.
> 
> If "gifted" one but only one grouppo, my personal preference would be:
> 
> 1- Campy
> 2- SRAM
> 3- Shimano
> 
> I've also have opportunity to try all the groups and its Campy for me in both the function and aesthetic catagories.
> 
> The "thumb" downshift design for me just feels the most intuitive. I also like the SRAM double tap feel - and the new Red is even more refined. Shimano would be my last choice, as I really dont care for that "floppy" main lever design controlling both shifting and braking. ( just picked up an M 10 that came w/ Durace but will live w/ it until finances allow me to swap it out for Campy)


:thumbsup:


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## carbonLORD

bon_gabs said:


> Can I still be arrested in Italy with this set-up? Im so open for your wildest comments,ideas,recommendations and suggestions,,not finalized yet so everything can still be modify.


I want to do Enve 6.7's on black Chris King hubs and re-decal the frame black. If they can catch me in Italy they can arrest me.


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## red elvis

if i have an italian frame, i'd build it up with campy wheels and components. but thats just me. thats 
C59 would look great with super record components.


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## bottecchia_eja

carbonLORD said:


> I want to do Enve 6.7's on black Chris King hubs and re-decal the frame black. If they can catch me in Italy they can arrest me.


Forget the police...the Pope is gonna hunt you down, catch you and then perform a full on exorcism on your bike. Sacre bleu!


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