# Merckx 753 years?



## aptivaboy

What years did Merckx make Reynolds 753 frames? I ask because I recently got one, and I'm anxious to know its likely year of manufacture. Gita says its most likely a 1986, or so, frame, as that was the only year they made them in 753, but I could have sworn they were were also made later. This isn't meant to be a knock on Gita. Based on the 126mm rear spacing, that date sounds about right; I just thought for sure I recalled seeing them in a later catalog. 

Thanks!

Robert


----------



## velomateo

Have you checked the serial number at this site? It can also give you a range for the model year.

http://www.cadre.org/Merckx/


----------



## martinrjensen

*1985*

Well as you can see by my sig file, I have what I think to be an 1985 753 Professional. I'm getting this information from the Cadre site though, so the only thing I'm sure of is that my frame is a 753 frame. While I re-did mine, the frame was almost certianly original when I got it, and I took special notice of the decals, replacing them exactly with duplicates I got off of eBay.


----------



## clalor

Other than a sticker, is there any way to visually differentiate a 753 Professional frame from one built with Columbus SL? I ask because my recently acquired '85 Mercx Professional was refinished by CyclArt sometime in the past and is missing the tubeset sticker.


----------



## martinrjensen

*I'll get back with ya*

I will pull the seat post from both my 753 and Corsa SL and see if there is any noticeable difference. I don't think there will be though. I understand that the SLX has internal ribbing but externally, both my 753 and my SL Merckx frames look pretty much identical other than they have slightly different bottom brackets. The Lugs look the same.


clalor said:


> Other than a sticker, is there any way to visually differentiate a 753 Professional frame from one built with Columbus SL? I ask because my recently acquired '85 Mercx Professional was refinished by CyclArt sometime in the past and is missing the tubeset sticker.


----------



## clalor

Martin, thank you. I look forward to the results. Just for fun, I snapped a picture of the underside of the BB on my bike:










Not pictured is the rear portion of the seat tube lug that has a similar cutout as the down tube cutout.


----------



## aptivaboy

My 753, the one Gita says is a 1985/86 model, has a very different bottom bracket. There is a center drain hole like your's. However, the cables run through eyelets on the bracket, not grooves or channels like your's. It also doesn't have the four L-shaped recesses. Its pretty much a plain bottom bracket. 

Robert


----------



## martinrjensen

*still haven't taken off the seat posts....*

I'm still in my jammies, but will get to it when I start moving around but the picture of your bottom bracket (this is on your Professional right?) is exactly like my 85 - 753 Pro bottom bracket. BTW I'm liking the color. So I'm guessing you have a 61 cm frame? that or a 51cm.... according to the "" stamped next to the "A" on the bottom bracket.

EDIT: Still haven't taken off the seatpost but I just measured the seat stays OD and found a huge difference in diameter. At the point where the seat stay is brazed onto the seat lug, the tubing has been cut with an angle and (I'm assuming an oval plate brazed on with an EM emblem on it. At the botton edge of this angled edge where the tubing starts to just become totally round again I measured; 
on the SL Corsa: 14 mm OD. 
On my 753 I measured 16.26mm OD. 
This is a really large difference in diameter and I don't think I have to worry about differences in paint thickness or anything. This converts to just over 1/2" (.55)on the Corsa to about 5/8" (.62") on the 753. You should be able to measure that with the tools you have at home.


----------



## clalor

I've been looking at BB pictures of the '80-'88 bikes on Cadre and there just aren't enough photos to notice a pattern, and definitely not enough photos of the Reynolds frames. However, given the photos that are there, it seems like BBs were mixed between years on the Columbus frames. I've seen mid-80's frames with the same BB that you mention aptivaboy, a couple that are completely smooth with no eyelets, and one or two a year or so later that look like mine.

Thanks, it's my frame and I'm really liking the color myself. It's a 61 cm and it's a "P" stamp, just turned 90 degrees.

Interesting, I measured the same point on my seat stays and they measure 16.25 mm. It flares out slightly to 16.43 mm at just above the brake bridge, then tapers down to 11.51 mm just above the chain hanger.

What do the rear brake bridges and top tube cable routing look like on your Reynolds bikes?

EDIT: Posted more pictures of my frame here.


----------



## martinrjensen

Here are a couple pics. It's sounding like that is a 753 what with the diameter of the seat stays being the same and all. I think that's a significant difference from my Corsa.


clalor said:


> I've been looking at BB pictures of the '80-'88 bikes on Cadre and there just aren't enough photos to notice a pattern, and definitely not enough photos of the Reynolds frames. However, given the photos that are there, it seems like BBs were mixed between years on the Columbus frames. I've seen mid-80's frames with the same BB that you mention aptivaboy, a couple that are completely smooth with no eyelets, and one or two a year or so later that look like mine.
> 
> Thanks, it's my frame and I'm really liking the color myself. It's a 61 cm and it's a "P" stamp, just turned 90 degrees.
> 
> Interesting, I measured the same point on my seat stays and they measure 16.25 mm. It flares out slightly to 16.43 mm at just above the brake bridge, then tapers down to 11.51 mm just above the chain hanger.
> 
> What do the rear brake bridges and top tube cable routing look like on your Reynolds bikes?


----------



## aptivaboy

The routing is aero, and the rear brake bridge looks the same. I'll try to take a few pics and figure out how to post them.


----------



## martinrjensen

*Pics, yes!*

Can't wait to see them!


----------



## clalor

Agreed, more pics, more better!


----------



## aptivaboy

Okay, here 'ya go! Please excuse the mess, the kitty toys, the clothes strewn haplessly around my little condo. 

https://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee110/aptivaboy/Bicycles/

Not shown is the 2000 Lemond Zurich with Chorus and Superbe Pro (my current ride in the garage) and the 1986 Specialized Allez SE. 

Some of these are waiting for restoration and total repaints. I had hoped to have enough cash to take care of the Allez and the Montagner this summer, but a strike, pay cut, etc., all got in the way. 

Robert


----------



## clalor

Hmm, it looks like your seat stays are a bit smaller in diameter that what Martin measured on his. How do your stays attach to the lug?


----------



## aptivaboy

I just uploaded a couple of images of the seat lug to the same Photobucket account. Does it look like there's an extra point in the lugs? I'm looking laterally, literally down the halfway of the lug.


----------



## atpjunkie

*I have doubts*

the BB on that Professional is 1985. The early Merck's 84-86 had over the BB cable routing


----------



## aptivaboy

Well, I'm just going on what Gita told me via email:

_The A along with the numbers is the serial number and the A indicates that
the frame is 86 - 87. If it is the Reynolds 753 it would be the Grand Prix
model which is the only model they did with that tube set. I hope this
helps. _


----------



## zmudshark

I'm getting confused. I have a couple of confirmed 1985 Professionals. They both have a Z as the date code, and an A as the model code. They both have under the bottom bracket cable routing. I also have an earlier Professional that has a similar date and serial number as the one atpjunkie posted, which is an early 80's Professional. The E in atp's picture is an early 80's date code, not the later mid 90's date code.

Until martinrjensen posted his bike, I had never seen a 753 that wasn't a Gran Prix, and had the engraved seat stay caps. He pointed out this catalog scan from the Bulgier site that shows a 753 tubed bike that is not a Gran Prix, but doesn't give a clear explanation of what it is. A Criterium, perhaps?
https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/eddy_merckx3/4.jpg


----------



## martinrjensen

The reason I am calling it a Professional model is that it has a "P" for a model designation and on the Cadre site that is listed as a Professional. Mine had no model name on the original paint job. in fact before the frame as blasted I didn't even see the P on the bottom bracket. The link I posted is exactly what my bike looked like originally also, and there is no model designation on that page for the bike. a lot of mystery....
EDIT: All I can say is that it is a great riding bike. Boneman has a similar looking frame as mine only his is pink.


----------



## aptivaboy

Here 'ya go: https://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee110/aptivaboy/Bicycles/?action=view&current=DSC00084.jpg and https://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee110/aptivaboy/Bicycles/?action=view&current=DSC00084.jpg and https://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee110/aptivaboy/Bicycles/?action=view&current=DSC00085.jpg . Please excuse the hairy leg...


----------



## martinrjensen

Thanks, that's a nice color. When ya gonna get it built up? I love riding mine. It's not too stiff or anything, a very nice riding frame, stiffer that my Serotta, or at least i will say my Serotta feels a little smoother (the Serotta does have a carbon fork), but a nice comfortable ride. You know, I'm almost thinking after seeing all different types of bottom brackets, that Merckx just grabbed off the shelf, whatever bottom bracket they had sitting there. Not that it's a bad thing, but I have seen several different styles on essentially the same year and model of bike.


aptivaboy said:


> Here 'ya go: https://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee110/aptivaboy/Bicycles/?action=view&current=DSC00084.jpg and https://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee110/aptivaboy/Bicycles/?action=view&current=DSC00084.jpg and https://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee110/aptivaboy/Bicycles/?action=view&current=DSC00085.jpg . Please excuse the hairy leg...


----------



## aptivaboy

It won't get built up for awhile. It needs a full repaint and money is very tight. There are some rust spots and a small dent that will need to be rolled and filled. It also needs a fork. I'm toying with the idea of a reverse 7-11 scheme, with the red and green panels reversed. I'm hoping maybe next summer? I'd like to build it up with old Mavic parts. The 631 spider crank is here, but Mavic shifters are rare. We'll see. 

You're certainly right about Merckx using whatever was lying around. I've also never seen another Merckx with seat stays that attach quite the way that mine do. Also, check out the seat lug; it looks like there's an extra point there on the lateral sides, a small shallow point that I don't recall seeing anywhere else, so the seat lug actually has four points. One thing that I've never understood was the L-shaped indentations or cutouts on the bottom brackets. What purpose did they serve?


----------



## martinrjensen

yes, I just realized your seat stays don't have the embossed signature on the tops of them. They are definitely different than mine. I agree about the BB too. Don't have a clue other than maybe the bottom bracket is sleeved for some reason. That 7-11 paint scheme is great. Reverse would be too. I went modern on my components. It's 10 speed Chorus.


aptivaboy said:


> It won't get built up for awhile. It needs a full repaint and money is very tight. There are some rust spots and a small dent that will need to be rolled and filled. It also needs a fork. I'm toying with the idea of a reverse 7-11 scheme, with the red and green panels reversed. I'm hoping maybe next summer? I'd like to build it up with old Mavic parts. The 631 spider crank is here, but Mavic shifters are rare. We'll see.
> 
> You're certainly right about Merckx using whatever was lying around. I've also never seen another Merckx with seat stays that attach quite the way that mine do. Also, check out the seat lug; it looks like there's an extra point there on the lateral sides, a small shallow point that I don't recall seeing anywhere else, so the seat lug actually has four points. One thing that I've never understood was the L-shaped indentations or cutouts on the bottom brackets. What purpose did they serve?


----------



## aptivaboy

I would like to go modern, but the rear spacing is 125-126 mm, I believe, so I'm stuck with older drivetrain components. As for the 7-11 scheme, I've always thought that while the Merckx 7-11 paintwork was pretty, that the colors, especially the green, were too dark. I might go for a somewhat lighter red and green, more like the colors that Serotta used when he made the 7-11 team bikes.


----------



## martinrjensen

*spacing to 130 mm*

Well I can tell you this. I have read on this and other forums that 753 cannot be cold set to spread the rear triangle, but R&E Cycle in Seattle did mine with no ill affects. Also, I had a 78 Trek TX900 with 126 mm spacing and I did not cold set that frame, but it was really pretty easy to just spread the dropouts by hand when inserting the wheel. It might be a little harder with 753 but I would give it a try with a 130mm spaced rear wheel, any wheel just to see how it goes in.


aptivaboy said:


> I would like to go modern, but the rear spacing is 125-126 mm, I believe, so I'm stuck with older drivetrain components. As for the 7-11 scheme, I've always thought that while the Merckx 7-11 paintwork was pretty, that the colors, especially the green, were too dark. I might go for a somewhat lighter red and green, more like the colors that Serotta used when he made the 7-11 team bikes.


----------



## aptivaboy

Thanks for the tips, Martin, but I actually have a pair of unused 126mm Super Record hubs that have been sitting around forever, and I'm planning on using those. They spin so well that its a shame not to use them. Or, I'll grab a pair of older Mavic hubs from the Bay to keep it as much all-Mavic as possible. I may just be able to score a Mavic front derailleur later today...

EDIT: SCORE! Mavic 862 front derailleur for $40 including postage!


----------



## martinrjensen

That's great. So you will be able to go up to 8 spd I think with the 126 right? My 753 is 10 spd. 8 is good...


aptivaboy said:


> Thanks for the tips, Martin, but I actually have a pair of unused 126mm Super Record hubs that have been sitting around forever, and I'm planning on using those. They spin so well that its a shame not to use them. Or, I'll grab a pair of older Mavic hubs from the Bay to keep it as much all-Mavic as possible. I may just be able to score a Mavic front derailleur later today...
> 
> EDIT: SCORE! Mavic 862 front derailleur for $40 including postage!


----------



## aptivaboy

7 for sure, and hopefully 8. In the end, it'll depend on which type of Mavic rear derailleur and shifters I can acquire, if any at all. They're getting rare and pricy on the Bay. We'll see.


----------



## Emerxil

Eddy Merckx and Reynolds 753 is an exceptionally "mysterious" combination, the number of legends and superstitions (i.e. disinformation) on this subject is overpowering...
Identification: there is no code for R753 tubes (similar to R653), only R531 has a code: R (can be found on Professional and Corsa).
Frame elements: there are no unique elements specific to R753 (headed by the mythical no-seatstaycaps/no-logo). All elements used in R753 can be found in other EMC models.
Finish: 99% of the early (1984-1989) R753 has no chrome plating on the tubes - unfortunately I found at least 2 exceptions; after 1989 chrome plating on R753 happens much more often...
The only way to "detect" R753 is to weigh the frame - R753 frame will be lighter than any Columbus (lighter than SL by 200-250 grams, the rest are even heavier), a bit lighter than R531 (but this one has an "R") and a bit lighter than R653 (but almost all R653 have chrome plating and were built in 1988-1989). By the way: the legendary "Grand Prix" is only the name R753, which appeared on the occasion of appearance of the "Century" model built at the beginning from R653 tubes - when R653 disappeared from the offer (replaced in the "Century" model by TSX tubes) there was no need to maintain the name "Grand Prix". The R753 frame was called: Pro 753 (84-86), Corsa Extra 753 (86-88), Grand Prix (88-90) and again Corsa Extra 753 (91-94); all had "road racing" geometry (which is an old one, introduced in 1980). Contrary to appearances, Century R653 is much rarer than R753.


----------

