# Stage 20 chatter (spoilers!)



## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

Is there no thread yet? 

I'm glad I got up early to watch. Astana just put the hammer down in the wind and suddenly it's just the contenders. Brutal!


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## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

Looks like Contador wants the stage today if Astana is driving the peloton so hard right now! Laying down the law!


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

nate said:


> Is there no thread yet?
> 
> I'm glad I got up early to watch. Astana just put the hammer down in the wind and suddenly it's just the contenders.* Brutal*!



Beautiful. Nicely played tactics by Astana.


Hincapie is in there too. Go _George._ 

I'm wishing each rider their very best day on the bike. 



And a final word to all you Armstrong haters...sit back, and enjoy your crow.


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## elcameron (Aug 10, 2002)

There is no other place Armstrong would like to win than Ventoux. I don't think he has a chance, but, he does pull some surprises.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

That crowd on Ventoux is crazy.

Len


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Len J said:


> That crowd on Ventoux is crazy.
> 
> Len


It is hard to tell where the road is.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

George just dropped

Len


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

The Saxo Domestiques are working their butts off.......

Len


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

elcameron said:


> There is no other place Armstrong would like to win than Ventoux. I don't think he has a chance, but, he does pull some surprises.



Perhaps the Flea will surprise me too. If he helps LA, he'll have the better part of valor.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

This is killing me. I've lost another fifty hairs I swear.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Game on...Andy, frank, AC & LA

Len


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## Art853 (May 30, 2003)

Frank goes, Lance covers.
Andy goes, Contador covers.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Snady goes...conti goes with him

Len


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Lance is not looking good w 12 K to go

Len


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Andy & Frank are tag teaming....great to watch


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## Art853 (May 30, 2003)

Kloden was slipping back behind Wiggins.

Lance is looking strong.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Klodin dropped

Len


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## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

Contador's face shows no effort at all! He looks like he is riding to market to pick up some baguettes!!


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Len J said:


> Lance is not looking good w 12 K to go
> 
> Len


P.S.
Any bets on that last couple of K's?


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> P.S.
> Any bets on that last couple of K's?


LA's whole effort now is marking frank....it's all he can do.

len


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## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

Kloden latched back on to the Armstrong, Wiggins, Frank Schleck group!


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## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

Nibali bridged up to Contador and A. Shleck and could pass Armstrong if he gets 1:50


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Niboli with AC...lance can afford to give him 2 minutes.

Len


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## Art853 (May 30, 2003)

Contador makes it look easy. He should race a motorcycle to the top.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Len J said:


> LA's whole effort now is marking frank....it's all he can do.
> 
> len



Nibali may steal the day.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Nibali may steal the day.


He needs about 2 minutes on LA to take 3rd.

Great move by him

Len


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## Snakebit (Mar 18, 2002)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Nibali may steal the day.


I look for a final surge from Armstrong, let's see what he has left nearer the top in the crosswinds.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Andy is doing a tremendous amount of work


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Snakebit said:


> I look for a final surge from Armstrong, let's see what he has left nearer the top in the crosswinds.


They should hit the treeline any second.


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## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

Andy keeps looking for his brother. Kloden has been leading Armstrong for a bit.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Watch for the attack when LA catches the AC group

len


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## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

Pelizotti makes a big acceleration to leave the yellow jersey group, even with the Polka dot jersey in the bag!


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

Great ride from Kloden to latch back on and set tempo for LA


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

& there goes pellizotti

Len


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## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

Van den Broeck pulling away from the yellow jersey group to catch Pelizotti


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## Art853 (May 30, 2003)

Andy drops back to Frank. All back together. LA and Kloden at front.
Crowds are so deep.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Have Frank & Andy given up dropping LA & AC?

Len


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Len J said:


> Have Frank & Andy given up dropping LA & AC?
> 
> Len



nope.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

jptaylorsg said:


> Great ride from Kloden to latch back on and set tempo for LA


There goes Andy & frank

len


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## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

Uh-Oh. The Schleck's pull away, Kloden falls off, LA, AC, Wiggins say NO!


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## Snakebit (Mar 18, 2002)

Contador pulled Lance back


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

No he didn't.


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## Art853 (May 30, 2003)

Pellizotti charging


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## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

Can Garate or Martin keep away from Pelizotti?? We'll see.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Wiggins is going back...


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Nibabli dropped

len


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Wooooot!


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## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

Wiggins was cracking, briefly, but catches back on!


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## mjzraz (Dec 2, 2005)

*blurring of jerseys*

Whats with the blurring of the jersey for Tony Martin?


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## Snakebit (Mar 18, 2002)

mjzraz said:


> Whats with the blurring of the jersey for Tony Martin?


Noticed that. ???


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Nibabli back on Wiggins gone

len


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## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

Wiggins face is pain! Somehow, each time he's in danger of cracking, he comes back!


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## clanger1 (May 4, 2009)

This is a brutal mountain! Woo


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Any bets on some afterburner action from LA?


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## mjzraz (Dec 2, 2005)

Snakebit said:


> Noticed that. ???


White bibs "too revealing" ?


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Wiggins back on...the surges are incredible

len


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

39" off of the lead for Pelizotti?


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## Doctor Who (Feb 22, 2005)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Any bets on some afterburner action from LA?


Doubt it. Stage win's going to someone else -- he's just going to sit in.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Down to 4

Len


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## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

Pelizotti is 39 seconds behing Martin and Garate.

Andy attacks, Contador and LA on his wheel.


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

Naked chest not jersey.


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## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

Garate leaves Martin!


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## Snakebit (Mar 18, 2002)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Any bets on some afterburner action from LA?


Shouldn't be able but I expect it.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

I need a cigarette after all this. 

Too bad I quitteted.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

HTF do these guys recover at those speeds

Len


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## Snakebit (Mar 18, 2002)

This must be the ugliest place in France.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Len J said:


> HTF do these guys recover at those speeds
> 
> Len


"recover" with a 30mph headwind.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Martin just caught Garate again

WOW


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## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

Martin and Garate are back together, 1 KM from the top. Pelizotti will probably be caught up by the AC group.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

The mental toughness is amazing


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## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

Wiggins is cracking and losing his hold on 4th place


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

gebbyfish said:


> Wiggins is cracking and losing his hold on 4th place


Keeps it.


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## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

Garate redeems Rabobank and sprints ahead of Martin. Andy Schleck third, AC on his wheel fourth. LA will be on the podium. SOMEHOW Wiggins comes back and holds on to his fourth place in the Tour. AMAZING!


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

I think Lance just put the big kiss my a$$ to all the haters.. podium! 

Great finish for that lead group!!


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

LA on the podium...well done

Len


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## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

There is no doubt! AC was a true teammate today! He watched out for Lance the whole climb! I hope LA appreciates it!


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

I may be in the minority but this was a big yawn.

For all the LA/Conti talk, I have to wonder what Andy could do if he didn't waste so much energy on his bro this tour.


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## gebbyfish (Apr 26, 2002)

I don't know BnB. Looked like Frank sacrificed for his bro the whole tour


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

Good ride by Wiggins, great effort by Andy. Biggest loser today is probably Sastre.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Tasty crow anyone?

Oeh is happy.


And how about Wiggo! ? Nicely done hanging on. Looked like he was going to have a fainting pygmy goat episode after he crossed the line. Probably was hurting worse than anyone and still dug up the goods to keep him in 4th.


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## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

Astana 1 and 3 Yay........LA hung on and looked strong. Unbelievable he stayed with everything the Schlecks did. Poor Andreas Klodin. Jsut too much for him. Wiggins is impressive as well...Nibaldi continues to impress me. Hope LA pick him for Team RS if he can get him. So much for the AC/LA controversy. AC looked after LA quite a few times. Great race. Im off to ride.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Tasty crow anyone?
> 
> Oeh is happy.
> 
> ...


By all of 3 seconds.


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## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

Wiggins gets my vote for best ride of the day. Armstrong impressed me, too. I think he looked much better than F. Schleck, but it doesn't hurt that he didn't need to attack. Contador and A. Schleck are clearly untouchable when it comes to day after day of climbing.

Time to mow the lawn then go for a ride.


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## elcameron (Aug 10, 2002)

BassNBrew said:


> I may be in the minority but this was a big yawn.
> 
> For all the LA/Conti talk, I have to wonder what Andy could do if he didn't waste so much energy on his bro this tour.


+1 I'd like to see Contador and A. go at it without the tactics.


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## elcameron (Aug 10, 2002)

moabbiker said:


> Good ride by Wiggins, great effort by Andy. Biggest loser today is probably Sastre.


Forgot all about Sastre


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## izzyfly (Jul 10, 2009)

AC marked Andy, and covered Lance ! And our Lance was able to hang on to AC's wheel. Nizzze before Paris! Nice teamwork Astana!


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

elcameron said:


> +1 I'd like to see Contador and A. go at it without the tactics.


Weren't you watching?

They went at it all day......every time Andy attacked...all 9 of them, Conty responded easily.

Len


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

elcameron said:


> Forgot all about Sastre


did Sastre ride today?


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

Contador looked a little under pressure near the end there today. He might've cracked if Andy didn't hold himself back for Frank who was also in trouble?


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## LWP (Jun 6, 2006)

5th over the top and on the podium in 3rd. Lance will never budge the hater's opinions but he sent them a big, unapologetic middle finger today.


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

moabbiker said:


> Contador looked a little under pressure near the end there today. He might've cracked if Andy didn't hold himself back for Frank who was also in trouble?


Not so much. he breezed in


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

BassNBrew said:


> I may be in the minority but this was a big yawn.
> 
> For all the LA/Conti talk, I have to wonder what Andy could do if he didn't waste so much energy on his bro this tour.



Don't you have a 18' bass boat, rod and reel, Natural Lite and beer cozy waiting for you somewhere?


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

Great ride by Lance. Epic return to the Tour. Good for him


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## sweatqueen (Jul 22, 2008)

Lovin schleck! Lance has got to be THE prime example of "team player"! I'm going to Radio Shack today to see what I can buy. Dream team? Armstrong, leipheimer, schlecks, cavendish and hopefully a kiss and make up with hincappie!


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

*Garate*

How about Garate and Tony Martin, by the way. Amazing rides!


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

jptaylorsg said:


> Not so much. he breezed in


Like I said, only because Andy decelerated to allow Frank to catch up.


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

rocco said:


> Don't you have a 18' bass boat, rod and reel, Natural Lite and beer cozy waiting for you somewhere?


That's a Busch beer wise guy and you'd don't need a cozy if you don't baby them.


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## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

*Interesting stage*

Thought A. Schleck and A. Contador could have rode away from everyone through the trees on the really steep parts (trust me, I've done it, horribly steep through that bit), but Andy kept trying to help his brother and Contador was helping to make sure Armstrong never lost touch.

Both rode for their teams. Both great champions.

And great ride by Armstrong. Good ride by Wiggins and Nibali as well. For a bit there, thought Nibali might pull something off when he went with A. Schleck and Contador.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

BassNBrew said:


> That's a Busch beer wise guy and you'd don't need a cozy if you don't baby them.



I'm sorry... Busch and a beer bong.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

moabbiker said:


> Like I said, only because Andy decelerated to allow Frank to catch up.


LOL........as if Andy could have kept that acceleration up. Andy was trying to break AC...Frank was trying to lose LA. Seeing anything else is pure fiction

Len


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## Prolene (Jul 30, 2006)

jptaylorsg said:


> Great ride by Lance. Epic return to the Tour. Good for him


Totally agree! Way to go Lance Armstrong! 

An average competitor his age and situation probably would have ended up as pack fodder/middle of the pack.

It did help he was on a strong team which had AC, but Lance made it happen. He did not tarnish his reputation, as I see it.


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

Len J said:


> LOL........as if Andy could have kept that acceleration up. Andy was trying to break AC...Frank was trying to lose LA. Seeing anything else is pure fiction
> 
> Len


I don't know about the accelerations, but he clearly checked up to let Frank catch back up.


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## Art853 (May 30, 2003)

Here comes the grupetto. Cavendish and Hushovd had a friendly sprint at the line, both smiling. Funny.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

BassNBrew said:


> I don't know about the accelerations, but he clearly checked up to let Frank catch back up.


No...He checked up because the attack failed......he couldn't drop Conti.

Andy needed to drop Conti to have a chance at yellow.......he attacked 9 times trying to drop him & couldn't.

LA's sole mission today was to not let Frank put any time into him.........he succeeded.

Conti's was to mark Andy...he succeeded.

Len


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

At most, if he didn't wait for Frank, maybe Andy and AC ride away from the pack and vie for the stage win. No evidence at all, though, that Andy ever had AC under pressure.


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## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

Len J said:


> Weren't you watching?
> 
> They went at it all day......every time Andy attacked...all 9 of them, Conty responded easily.
> 
> Len


Yes and no. Contador definitely responded easily to each attack, but neither Armstrong or Frank did. The result: Andy slowed up so his brother wouldn't lose touch. Who knows what would have happened if Andy kept up the pressure. Pretty sure that Contador would stayed there, but both had an eye on their teammates.


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## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

Marc said:


> By all of 3 seconds.


that's enough....


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## elcameron (Aug 10, 2002)

Len J said:


> No...He checked up because the attack failed......he couldn't drop Conti.
> 
> Andy needed to drop Conti to have a chance at yellow.......he attacked 9 times trying to drop him & couldn't.
> 
> ...



Andy did slow, the evidence is in the fact that three or four riders regained the group at that point. He kept looking back, it was clear he was waiting for his bro. He had no chance for the win at that point.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

oarsman said:


> Yes and no. Contador definitely responded easily to each attack, but neither Armstrong or Frank did. The result: Andy slowed up so his brother wouldn't lose touch. Who knows what would have happened if Andy kept up the pressure. Pretty sure that Contador would stayed there, but both had an eye on their teammates.


It looked to me like Andy's strategy was to wear Conti down....conti showed no weakness so Andy backed off. Andy also needed to make sure he didn't, in an attempt to drop conti, crack himself and lose time to LA.

I'm not sure how waiting for Frank had any tactical advantage at all except letting Conti & himself recover.


len


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## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

jptaylorsg said:


> At most, if he didn't wait for Frank, maybe Andy and AC ride away from the pack and vie for the stage win. No evidence at all, though, that Andy ever had AC under pressure.


That's how I saw it. Andy couldn't drop Contador, but I think together, they could have dropped the field. Since Andy can't lose Contador, he decided to throttle back to help his brother.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

oarsman said:


> That's how I saw it. Andy couldn't drop Contador, but I think together, they could have dropped the field. Since Andy can't lose Contador, he decided to throttle back to help his brother.


How did that help Frank?

LA wasn't attacking frank...he was just marking him.

Frank needed time on LA and couldn't get it. With or without Andy in that group, Frank is in the same position. 

I'm not seeing andy slowing up as any help to Frank at all.

Len


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

Len J said:


> No...He checked up because the attack failed......he couldn't drop Conti.
> 
> Andy needed to drop Conti to have a chance at yellow.......he attacked 9 times trying to drop him & couldn't.
> 
> ...


Not disagreeing with the statements you just made. Just pointing out that it would have been nice to see a race between them to win the stage. Part of my disappointment is how hyped Mt. Ventoux has been all tour. Obviously many of the riders don't consider a stage victory there a huge achievement. Maybe rightfully so in the overall scheme of things, but still a let down.


Hopefully they bring back time bonuses in the future.


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## LWP (Jun 6, 2006)

elcameron said:


> Andy did slow, the evidence is in the fact that three or four riders regained the group at that point. He kept looking back, it was clear he was waiting for his bro. He had no chance for the win at that point.


It's pretty irrelevant overall. Andy wasn't going to get 4+ minutes on Contador today even if Frank had stayed at the hotel this morning.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

I have to wonder if AC could've ridden away from LA/AS in the final K? If so, he showed some serious class and restraint, by not showboating _again_.


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## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

Len J said:


> It looked to me like Andy's strategy was to wear Conti down....conti showed no weakness so Andy backed off. Andy also needed to make sure he didn't, in an attempt to drop conti, crack himself and lose time to LA.
> 
> I'm not sure how waiting for Frank had any tactical advantage at all except letting Conti & himself recover.
> 
> ...


I really don't think Andy was at risk of cracking. But neither was Contador. Between Andy and Frank there were not only team tactics: making sure Andy stays second, trying to get Frank third, but also the bond between the two brothers. Andy was not going to leave his brother unless he had to. Frank couldn't get third unless he was able to follow one of his brother's attacks and Armstrong could not. The decisive attack had to happen in the trees: the steepest part, yet sheltered from the wind. It never worked, despite many attempts.


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

Len J said:


> How did that help Frank?
> 
> LA wasn't attacking frank...he was just marking him.
> 
> ...


It wasn't a help, was is why he should have gone on. Andy also rode a lot of tempo for the group. Seems like isolating Frank, Wiggins, and Lance would have given Frank the best chance to succeed.


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> I have to wonder if AC could've ridden away from LA/AS in the final K? If so, he showed some serious class and restraint, by not showboating _again_.


Maybe he could have, but he would have had to leave earlier than that to catch Garate/Martin, and the winning move was just to mark Andy and not risk overdoing it. No reason to dash away in the final K to get 3rd place when you're going to win the whole thing anyway.

If Andy had kept attacking, they probably would have vied for the stage, but there was never a chance of a Contador attack today.


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## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

BassNBrew said:


> It wasn't a help, was is why he should have gone on. Andy also rode a lot of tempo for the group. Seems like isolating Frank, Wiggins, and Lance would have given Frank the best chance to succeed.


except I think he knew that Frank did not have the best legs today.


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## sweatqueen (Jul 22, 2008)

jptaylorsg said:


> How about Garate and Tony Martin, by the way. Amazing rides!


Deal- but Cadel and Thor should be in the mix just to make me happy!


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## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

Len J said:


> How did that help Frank?
> 
> LA wasn't attacking frank...he was just marking him.
> 
> ...


I don't think Andy wanted to leave Frank alone against Wiggins and Armstrong. I think when Andy realized he could not drop Contador, he tried to help Frank, who looked horrible to me. I think Frank would have gotten dropped by a few people without Andy slowing the pace.


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