# Continental Grand Prix 4000s vs Grand Prix 4-Season Tires.



## William_25

I'm looking to commute with my road bike for a good chunk of the year even under rainier/colder conditions. I'm trying to choose between Continental's Grand Prix 4000s and thier Grand Prix 4-Season. I've heard that even the 4000s has good wet weather handling and is better for speed...I'm just not sure I could use some help deciding. I think I'm going to go with 700/25c in either case but even that I'm still open for opinions.


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## mimason

GP4k is not a commuter tire, its a race tire that you can train on. Sounds like you should go for the 4 seasons.


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## Aushiker

Hi

My vote is for the GP4000s and I commute on mine. The three that I have now retired averaged 4,102 km but interesting but of one of the two I have in use at the moment has done 10,444 km.

I keep a track of my tyre history. It may be worth a read.

Andrew


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## Blue CheeseHead

mimason said:


> GP4k is not a commuter tire, its a race tire that you can train on. Sounds like you should go for the 4 seasons.


The 4 Seasons is no more a commuter tire by construction than the GP4000 (or 4000s). It is basically a 4000 with a tread pattern.

While the Gatorskin does not share the Black Chili compound that the black Grand Prix tires have, it does offer more flat protection. The Gatorskin is a very capable training tire that works well for commuting.


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## LC

4-Seasons have slightly better puncture protection but wear very quickly with very soft rubber for super grip in those off seasons when most sane people are sitting by the fireplace sipping hot chocolate instead of riding. 4000 are racing tires. They are both bad choices for commuting tires, but I do use a 4-seasons on the front only, and I save it for only for bad weather training and racing.

Gatorskins are surprisingly light weight and yet still tough high mileage tires that would be fantastic for fast commuting.


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## William_25

I just starting looking into Gatorskins. They have Gatorskin Hardshell as well. I think those of you who suggested them are right I think I might go with them instead.


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## tarwheel2

I have commuted extensively on bikes with Conti GP 4000s as well as 4 Seasons. They both have performed well, rarely ever flat and last a long time. The 4 Seasons have the same Velctran protection as Gatorskins, so theoretically should last longer than GP 4000s. I've ridden nearly 3,000 miles on my 4 Seasons and the rear tire still has plenty of tread. I've got a set of Gatorskins ready to install whenever my current tires wear out but I'm having trouble doing that.


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## LC

I would avoid the Hardshells unless your riding through glass all the time because you lose so much suppleness the ride quality really suffers. Gatorskins are tough enough for most.


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## Robot Ceiling Man

The Gatorskins are tougher but less supple. It really depends on what matters to you. If you want a supple tire go 4000 or 4-season. I have 4-seasons on the wheelset I use from March-November and Gatorskins on the wheelset I use during the winter. I live in Virginia and there gets to be a lot of debris on the road in the bad months. They're all nice tires just vary in hardness.


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## cpark

William_25 said:


> I'm looking to commute with my road bike for a good chunk of the year even under rainier/colder conditions. I'm trying to choose between Continental's Grand Prix 4000s and thier Grand Prix 4-Season. I've heard that even the 4000s has good wet weather handling and is better for speed...I'm just not sure I could use some help deciding. I think I'm going to go with 700/25c in either case but even that I'm still open for opinions.


I run 4000S from May through Nov and 4-Seasons from Dec through April.
For commuting purpose, I'd personally use 4-Seasons.
Also, I don't believe 4000S is available in 25 but I could be wrong.


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## Don4

cpark said:


> I run 4000S from May through Nov and 4-Seasons from Dec through April.
> For commuting purpose, I'd personally use 4-Seasons.
> *Also, I don't believe 4000S is available in 25 but I could be wrong.*


The "4000s" is available in 25, but it's really hard to find, and even harder to keep in stock. I have 3 on backorder as we speak.


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## cpark

Don4 said:


> The "4000s" is available in 25, but it's really hard to find, and even harder to keep in stock. I have 3 on backorder as we speak.


Thanks for the information. 
I'll try to hunt down 4000S in 25......


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## Aushiker

cpark said:


> Thanks for the information.
> I'll try to hunt down 4000S in 25......


A quick search using Frugal Ruoleur brought up two retailers with stock ..

Wiggle in the UK have stock - http://www.wiggle.co.uk/continental-grand-prix-4000s-road-tyre/
Chainreactioncycles in the UK have stock - http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=18796

Andrew


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## r_mutt

Gatorskins feel like riding on flintstone wheels. IMHO, the 4-seasons feel pretty hard as well. This could be my imagination. The black chili 4000 feel pretty supple to my butt. It is not a good commute tire if you live in an area with dirty roads.


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## shokhead

Haven't had a flat with 4-seasons in 5 years.


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## cpark

Aushiker said:


> A quick search using Frugal Ruoleur brought up two retailers with stock ..
> 
> Wiggle in the UK have stock - http://www.wiggle.co.uk/continental-grand-prix-4000s-road-tyre/
> Chainreactioncycles in the UK have stock - http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=18796
> 
> Andrew


Thank you!
Now, I need to find the way to explain to my wife why I'm buying more tires when I have a large stack of 23mm 4000S/4 Season tires in my home office.......:idea:


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## MJCBH

Anybody know what the difference is between the Conti Grand Prix and the 4000s? Both have black chili compound but do they have a different tread, etc.?


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

I have used the 4 seasons and 4000s on the back before and it seems that the 4 season seems to wear out quicker over warm weather.

Anyone felt that way? Would have thought the 4000s being a race tyre will wear out quicker ... 

Had the Gatorskins on my old hybrid bike and they do last much longer. At the next changeover, I might just go back to Gatorskins. More hard wearing, but possibly giving up some suppleness or just placebo?


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## Finnjävel

I just bought a new pair of gp4000s from bike-discount.de for about 25€ each. The last pair still has plenty of tread after about 2500km, but the rear one has a nasty cut in the sidewall from some sharp gravel.

A great tire IMHO.


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## Sisophous

Stay away from the Continental GP4000S, I had a defective tire. Riding less than 600 miles, the sidewall had a major tear in it. My bike shop told me they had not seen this but I suspect the "S" Tires of the GP4000 series are defective, at least many of them. I contacted Continental at their official website and requested they replace the defective tire. They did not reply to me. My suggestion, avoid Continental tires.

A few days ago, I posted a thread in the General Cycling forum about *Exploding Tubes*. My tubes exploded because of the defective tire, I found out first when visting my bike shop.

The 4000S series is inferior to the 4000 series IMO in terms of durability. Performance wise, they are the same.


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## blitespeed

Sisophous said:


> Stay away from the Continental GP4000S, I had a defective tire. Riding less than 600 miles, the sidewall had a major tear in it. My bike shop told me they had not seen this but I suspect the "S" Tires of the GP4000 series are defective, at least many of them. I contacted Continental at their official website and requested they replace the defective tire. They did not reply to me. My suggestion, avoid Continental tires.
> 
> A few days ago, I posted a thread in the General Cycling forum about *Exploding Tubes*. My tubes exploded because of the defective tire, I found out first when visting my bike shop.
> 
> The 4000S series is inferior to the 4000 series IMO in terms of durability. Performance wise, they are the same.


I've been using Conti 4000 S tires for a few years, first in 23mm, more recently in 25mm and have never had any problems.


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## SauronHimself

I'm happy with my 23mm 4000S's. When buying these softer folding bead tires you'll come across bad ones every now and then.


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## dcgriz

William_25 said:


> I'm looking to commute with my road bike for a good chunk of the year even under rainier/colder conditions. I'm trying to choose between Continental's Grand Prix 4000s and thier Grand Prix 4-Season. I've heard that even the 4000s has good wet weather handling and is better for speed...I'm just not sure I could use some help deciding. I think I'm going to go with 700/25c in either case but even that I'm still open for opinions.


These are the tires I have been using for a while now. The 4000S in 25mm for summer duty and the GP 4season in 28mm for winter. 
I did get cuts on the tread of either and had to throw tires with still good tread away but I do like them and will keep on using them.
Buy them online for a fraction of the cost and don't bother with the warranty which is non-existent if you don't buy them from a store for more than twice the cost.


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## josephr

wanted - the 4000s in 25mm....couldn't find at all...have been riding the 4000 4 seasons. I had a problem with a bead seat but defated the tire and completely reseated the bead and that's been 1000 miles ago. So far have 1500 miles on the set and just rotated front to back. I usually replace my tires after 3k miles as I life to be on the safe side, but thinking with these I might go 4k.


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## nhluhr

Blue CheeseHead said:


> The 4 Seasons is no more a commuter tire by construction than the GP4000 (or 4000s). It is basically a 4000 with a tread pattern.
> 
> While the Gatorskin does not share the Black Chili compound that the black Grand Prix tires have, it does offer more flat protection. The Gatorskin is a very capable training tire that works well for commuting.


The GP4Season is pretty different from the GP4000S. First of all, it's not the same rubber compound. It's a cold-capable rubber that wears faster in warm temperatures. Also, it has the same Duraskin ripstop material protecting the sidewalls bead-to-bead as in the gatorskin series. Finally, it has two layers of Conti's Vectran flat protection strip (vs the GP4000S having one layer). It's a significantly burlier tire and superior for winter use and commuting where you might have glass and other flat-causing hazards, but it also comes with a pretty good jump in rolling resistance according to Conti.


MJCBH said:


> Anybody know what the difference is between the Conti Grand Prix and the 4000s? Both have black chili compound but do they have a different tread, etc.?


From Conti's website, it appears the primary difference is the PolyX breaker instead of the Vectran breaker. This will likely be a slightly more flat-resistant tire than the GP4000S, but the PolyX breaker is suppsedly less supple and thus will result in slightly increased rolling resistance. Also, they seem to be labeled in odd sizes like 700x22 and 700x24. Not sure what actual dimensions may be.


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## Sisophous

Enjoyment said:


> Never had a problem with Conti's of any kind myself. How much do you inflate them? What's the psi?


I believe the max is 120 psi, yet I fill mine to 100 psi and when the pressure drops to roughly 90 psi, a week later, I refill them to 100 psi.


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## mann2

sorry to hear about that @sisophous. can say anything bad about my 4000s though. been using them for quite a few years recently in 25c.


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## Sisophous

mann2 said:


> sorry to hear about that @sisophous. can say anything bad about my 4000s though. been using them for quite a few years recently in 25c.


My thought is there was a manufacturing error when the tire was made that failed me. I also think it is a batch that may be susceptible to failures. My rides are nothing unusual, and I can't think of anything I did that could have caused such a sidewall failure. I rode with the GP4000 tires with no issue, replaced them after 2,500 miles and they were still good, but the "S" series is a disappointment in terms of durability.

I guess things just happen from time to time.


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## CabDoctor

MJCBH said:


> Anybody know what the difference is between the Conti Grand Prix and the 4000s? Both have black chili compound but do they have a different tread, etc.?


I've raced and trained the heck out of the Grand Prix. It's awesome! I love it. Ridiculously grippy and durable. Very fast rolling tire, feels faster than the Michelin Pro 3s they replaced. You used to be able to find it for $26 which made it an insanely good deal. But it's price has been slowly creeping up and not many places carry them.


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## CabDoctor

nhluhr said:


> Also, they seem to be labeled in odd sizes like 700x22 and 700x24. Not sure what actual dimensions may be.


Mine are labeled 700x23


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## CabDoctor

MJCBH said:


> Anybody know what the difference is between the Conti Grand Prix and the 4000s? Both have black chili compound but do they have a different tread, etc.?


"This latest Grand Prix tyre overlays race performance onto a training carcass to build a superb value all-rounder. 

Not to be confused with the £40 Grand Prix 4000 or 4000S, this ‘basic’ Grand Prix tyre uses the same excellent carbon-infused Black Chili compound. That means easy road speed, great grip plus confident cornering in all weathers. 

This is all overlaid onto the proven Gatorskin 24mm training carcass for very tough and durable backroad performance. It feels smooth despite the extra protection, while good tread life boosts its value rating even further."


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## BenR

*Continental Novel*

Hopefully this helps rather than confusing future readers...The Continental Grand Prix used to be Conti's flagship tire back in the day, and then the Grand Prix 3000 (GP3000) came out with silica rubber and maybe a bit better casing. They kept the GP3000 and original Grand Prix on the market together for a long time. Then the GP4000 replaced the GP3000 with multiple improvements, and somewhere in there the original "Grand Prix" disappeared. 

Continental has now reused the 'Grand Prix' name as a more basic tire, along with an oddball "special edition Grand Prix" that probably won't be around for long. The new, basic Grand Prix has a lower threadcount carcass (60tpi, I think, same level as the Gatorskin, without the anti tear DuraSkin sidewall). Compared to the Grand Prix 4000/GP4000/GP4000S at 110tpi, it's definitely less supple. It also has a cheaper, thicker nylon antipuncture layer instead of the newer Vectran. This anti puncture layer is also less supple but seems to be equally as effective. As others have said, the basic Grand Prix DOES have the newest black chili rubber compound which I feel is a huge advantage. I never liked the GP3000 and early GP4000 silica rubber compound as it aged quickly and was slick in the rain. The standard black rubber on the original Grand Prix and Gatorskins seemed better. I originally thought black chili was going to be a marketing ploy but after going through multiple tires, it grips better and lasts longer than the silica ("ACS") rubber (maybe even more than claimed), and for whatever reason, it seems to make the tire feel smoother...maybe it's all in my head, but I think the current 23 or 25mm Grand Prix 4000 is the ultimate all around tire for decent roads. If there ever was a tire that offers minimal compromise for both racing and training, this is it.

When they were cheaper ~3 years ago, I bought a couple basic Grand Prixs in 24mm just out of curiosity and to get a bit more tire volume when the GP4000 black chili was only available in 23mm. The Grand Prix ended up being more muted and boardier than the GP4000, negating any advantage of a larger casing, but I also really didn't have any complaints. Puncture resistance and overall durability seemed fine, and the black chili rubber was nice in the winter. For $25 they were great tires. Right now though, they've increased in price and for a few bucks more you can get the better GP4000 in two sizes. If puncturing is an issue, get the Gatorskin instead, with more more width options. You'll lose the black chili rubber but get a tougher tire for about the same price. 

The 4th option is the Grand Prix 4 Season. It has Duraskin in the casing, just like the Gatorskin, but the casing itself is the higher 110 threadcount. The GP 4 Season has been around for several years and the current version also has a double Vectran layer, making it arguably tougher than the Gatorskin's older anti-puncture belt, not to mention more supple. So, it's pretty sporty for as tough as it is. I'm not sure what's in the rubber - Conti talks about it being a "winter specific" compound, supposedly softer and grippier than their "standard" rubber, but it almost seems like they made a running change to Black Chili as wear mileage on my current GP 4 Season seems just as good or better than the Gatorskins. I have a 28mm GP 4 season on the front of a #365 tandem (team&bike) that eats tires and chains for lunch, and the 4 Season has been a great tire. It replaced a 28mm Gatorskin that I also had no complaints about. Other tires have either puctured/torn/warped or ride like a tractor. The GP 4 Season has more road feel than the Gatorskin (smoother but livelier at same time), and maybe an increased feeling of security, although this bike doesn't get pushed in corners. So, the Gatorskin gets the job done, but the GP4 season is more fun to ride. If you want Specialized Armadillo protection with some of the GP 4000 ride, this is the tire, but you WILL pay for it. They're rarely on sale.


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## Don4

Great post, BenR!


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## Typetwelve

Rode on a set of funky 2009 Specialized Roubaix tires all last year...1200 miles and not a single flat.

Bought a new bike, replaced the stock tires with Conti 4000s and after a whopping 200 miles or so...catastrophic sidewall cut. Roached tire.

Now...I'm going to order another 4000s but if this one proves to be the same as the other it will literally be the last time I ever buy one. I'm going to write this failure off as bad luck...but I'm pretty pissed that a $50 tire didn't even make it 250 miles when some old clunkers make it a whole season last year...


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## svard75

Typetwelve said:


> Rode on a set of funky 2009 Specialized Roubaix tires all last year...1200 miles and not a single flat.
> 
> Bought a new bike, replaced the stock tires with Conti 4000s and after a whopping 200 miles or so...catastrophic sidewall cut. Roached tire.
> 
> Now...I'm going to order another 4000s but if this one proves to be the same as the other it will literally be the last time I ever buy one. I'm going to write this failure off as bad luck...but I'm pretty pissed that a $50 tire didn't even make it 250 miles when some old clunkers make it a whole season last year...


Sorry to hear about your bad luck. Don't get discouraged. I just bought a set of 25mm gp4000s from pro3s and am experiencing great things. I noticed the pro3s when hot would get cuts from small sharp stones. The gp4000s nothing. They feel just as grippy as the pro3s. I'll reserve my comments on speed differences between the two because they are larger and the wheels themselves are different but they are a win win for me


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## Ronin

I've been using GP4000s 23's for about almost a year. The back almost needs changing, the front is fine. So I decided to get some 25's as there was a deal on. 

Something didn't seem quite right, kinda like if you pick up a sticker on your tire and you hear tick, tick, tick as you're rolling. On closer inspection there was a slight bulge in the tire. On even closer inspection the inner material was showing through the sidewall. I returned this tire, and on getting back home noticed the other tire is also defective...

Was I unlucky...perhaps...well no, I was lucky, v.lucky because I've been out on them descending and it could have been disastrous. Although winter is coming, perhaps the Conti GP 4 Seasons would be better. Decisions, decisions...


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