# Zero to 30 miles.. on a first group ride?



## 13thcyclist (Jan 23, 2011)

Hi everyone, I want to do a group ride this Saturday with my brother. This will be his first time riding a road bike, first time riding in a group, and first time riding 30 miles!  Yep, I want to get him into cycling, and he also wants to start riding road bikes as well. However, the only bike he has ridden before was a heavy Jamis mtn bike, and he has a grand total of 10 minutes on the saddle of a road bike. Also, he says he hasn't ridden his mtn bike at all for a few months, so that is a little concerning. He will be riding my old steel commuter bike, which is a bit heavier compared to my modern Al Giant Defy 2, but still a lot lighter than his full susp. mtn bike.

I am just wondering, will my brother be able to keep up? This is an 'easy' group ride, and was actually the group I rode with when I first started road cycling. Most average around 12-15 mph for the total trip, but a few are quite fast, so there are different speed levels within the group. We can also turn around at 15 miles if 30 mile is too much for him. But given the fact that this is an easy group ride, plus the fact that riding distances is easier with a group in the first place, would it be a stretch to say my brother can do the whole 30?


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I think it sounds like a bad idea.

Go for a ride just the two of you at whatever pace makes sense. I wouldn't want my first ride on a bike to be a group ride or a race - I'm usually still fussing around with getting fit dialed in, getting the indexing on the shifters right, etc.

Whether or not he can do the full length of the ride, I think trying to maintain others' pace wouldn't make for a pleasant introduction to a new bike and style.


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## forge55b (Jan 30, 2011)

There will be plenty of nay sayers but if your brother is up for it, go for it.

My first ride on a road bike (without ever being on one before in my life) was 50 miles with about 5 climbs and while I felt like my legs were going to fall off, I finished it. Couldn't do much walking after but it pretty much got me hooked to the sport. 

It really all comes down to whether your brother can handle the fun pain that is cycling.


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## 13thcyclist (Jan 23, 2011)

I was afraid to hear that Andrw, but I did call the ride leader earlier. She said they would accomodate my brother and me since they were 'old fogies anyway' (a lot of the group are older riders). If I didn't emphasize the 'easy' group ride part enough, it's pretty much a no-drop ride with a lot of rest stops where everyone waits for everyone before riding off again. Carol (the ride leader) says she's probably the slowest of the group, and I know she goes pretty slow so beginners don't get dropped, so I am confident my brother can easily have at least one person riding with him.

As for the fit issue, I know a little bit about bike fitting after riding for one year to get my brother in the general ball park to fit my commuter bike. He recently got sized up at an LBS since he was out window shopping for a new bike, and the Specialized LBS recommended a 54cm frame for him. My REI Novara commuter happens to be a 54cm, so I am sure he will be able to fit that. If I can't get the fit right for him anyway, there are a lot of good, much more experienced riders than I am (remember- old fogies? ) who can help him with the fit process.

I just hope I recover enough to join him on the ride. Crashing sucks


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

Even if it's a no-drop ride, I would tell the group that you and your brother might decide to "be dropped" if you guys feel it's necessary. You don't want the group to have to wait every two miles for you guys... or for your brother to have to push too hard or deal with pain/discomfort/overexertion just to "keep up" on his first ride.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

For me, a ballpark fit's not likely to be good enough for 30 miles. Ironically, that's especially true for a slow pace. But, you and your brother are adults. If you two can fit in a ride today or tomorrow and just spend an hour or so seeing if you can get the fit a little more dialed and maybe rolling around and letting your brother get more comfortable on that bike, it will be better.

Don't put too much value on both frames having the same nominal size. I wouldn't be too surprised if the Novara runs shorter. You're not specific about what it is exactly, or what Specialized the dealer had your brother on, so I'm not going to hunt up a geometry chart. But since you know what bikes you're talking about, you can if you want. Look for the "effective top tube length." Seat angle matters a little bit too, just because it effects the top tube length without effecting the actual reach of the bike.

I think it's a good piece of advice in the above post, though - if you know the area, the worst that will happen is that you bail out early.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Look for the "effective top tube length." Seat angle matters a little bit too, just because it effects the top tube length without effecting the actual reach of the bike.


Not to derail this thread and I may be reading this wrong, but all else being equal, changing seat tube angle does change reach.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

What I meant was that if a steeper seat tube angle and shorter effective top tube are specified, the bike may have the same reach as something with a little slacker seat angle and longer ETT. Using reach as the horizontal distance from the bottom bracket forward to the head tube.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

AndrwSwitch said:


> What I meant was that if a steeper seat tube angle and shorter effective top tube are specified, the bike may have the same reach as something with a little slacker seat angle and longer ETT. Using reach as the horizontal distance from the bottom bracket forward to the head tube.


Gotcha. FWIW, here's a pictorial of frame stack/ reach. 
View attachment 252022


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Wish more bike companies would specify reach and stack.

I think they'd have to eliminate some of their small-sized frames if they did, though.


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## alf1096 (Feb 7, 2008)

Being still fairly new to cycling I can say a group ride for the first one is not what I want. You will also be putting the other riders at risk. My friend just started to but was a regular mountain bike rider and he was all over the place. Remember road bikes are squerrly if you are not used to them.


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## lsutiger (Mar 9, 2010)

I think pace is more important for a beginner than distance. 30 miles at 20MPH is totally different that 30 miles at 15MPH.


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## 13thcyclist (Jan 23, 2011)

Okay, so we did it!

Well, I did it. My brother had to turn around with the ride leader after 7.5 miles to return to our car. Still, it was a big accomplishment for my big brother. HOPEfully this will get him nicely started into road cycling. His only complaint was a sore ass, but that's expected, right?

Anyway, twas a great day, despite.. a bad feeling of karmic doom (if you read General Cycling ,you'll know what I mean :blush2:.) It looked like it was gonna rain.. but it didn't. I got a flat tire on the front.. while slowly rolling on the flats after coming out of a descent. And my brother said that he drove home afterward (he was gonna pick me up cause we decided to make it a one way ride).. but he joked about that.


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## torch511 (Mar 4, 2012)

Since you called the group leader and she was willing to accept your brother knowing he was inexperienced, I guess it's OK, and while I hope your brother gets into road cycling and can appreciate his personal achievement, it is not something I would recommend.

I lead a "B" group road ride twice a week for the LBS, and while it is a no-drop group, I would have NEVER let someone who has such little experience ride as it would negatively impact the group. That being said to get new riders up to speed we offer an "intro to group rides" ride twice a month where we have a couple of group ride leaders along with a couple of the regulars ride with noobs, give them some tips, get them comfortable riding near other riders, teach them group ride protocols and show them the route. We are very accomidating to beginners, but need to make the rides as safe and benificial to all the riders.


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## MrTopher (Jul 29, 2010)

I remember my first real ride. It was a 30 mile ride, and I had my bike all of 2 weeks before and only been on a few solo rides, maybe 5 miles max. But I did the 30, and it was rough, but I felt good after doing it. 
Mind you the only biking equipment I had was the bike, helmet, and gloves. No shoes/pedals, spandex/padded shorts, etc. 

Feel him out a little more before just throwing him into it. Your pace seems a lot slower than my first 30 mile ride, but I also didn't have a computer, and I was mostly playing catchup.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

I hope your brother wasn't negatively impacted by being pushed too far and set up for failure on his first ride. Nothing can spoil a sport for someone more than being put into a group they can't keep up with or having a too stressful or painfull experience.


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## 13thcyclist (Jan 23, 2011)

Camilo said:


> I hope your brother wasn't negatively impacted by being pushed too far and set up for failure on his first ride. Nothing can spoil a sport for someone more than being put into a group they can't keep up with or having a too stressful or painfull experience.


Haha, no don't worry, he'll stick to the sport :thumbsup:. He actually had at least 2 other people besides the ride leader to ride with him, cause I looked back at him many times (yes I worry about him ) and saw 4 people behind me.. waaayyy behind me  :blush2:. He was happy overall that he rode with the group I chose for him, and definitely reinforced his desire to buy a Specced Roubaix!


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

The Spec. Roubaix is an excellent bike - a sensible geometry, not "racy" per-se, but top quality, fast bike. I ride the same "type" of bike and am so much happier and faster on it than any bike I've owned so far in spite of a slightly more upright position.

I know you're not on Maui, but I went for a really, really nice ~60 mile ride clockwise around West Maui once. It was a wonderful ride, even the last 25 miles from Maalea (sp?) to Napilii in the noontime sun against the wind (the wind literally shifted during the ride, it had been prevailing the other way for several days before that). But the hills of West Maui are spectacular and really fun to ride in spite of the steep pitches (but they're short going that way). I was actually surprised I finished within 5 hours because I have at least 20 photos.


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