# Any cheaper alternatives to Endurolytes pills from Hammer Nutrition?



## jabpn (Oct 14, 2005)

As much as I would like to be able to afford them I can't. Not at 4 pills an hour. Are there cheaper alternatives that exist or are there any good suppliers of the salts etc. where one can blend their own electrolyte substance?


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## dr pabst (May 16, 2007)

Bag 'o pretzels?


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## Forrest Root (Dec 22, 2006)

Meth and crack can be had pretty cheaply on the street.


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## jabpn (Oct 14, 2005)

Forrest Root said:


> Meth and crack can be had pretty cheaply on the street.


Maybe but four hits of meth will probably kill ya'  .


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## dr pabst (May 16, 2007)

I perfer a dram of paregoric every hour or so durring intense workouts.


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## saccycling (Sep 30, 2004)

The nutrients are almost negligable. http://www.hammernutrition.com/za/HNT?PAGE=PRODUCT&PROD.ID=4037#info4 I wouldn't think it would be to tough to figure out a alternative. A balanced diet ?


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## rogerstg (Aug 1, 2007)

Morton lite salt. Add tums if you need some calcium.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

rogerstg said:


> Morton lite salt. Add tums if you need some calcium.


x 11ty billion

I hate how Hammer gets all high & mighty about their stuff. The main electrolyte you need is salt, and Rite Aid sells salt pills very cheap.


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

I was actually looking at their site for the first time yesterday. The first thing I noticed is that most of their stuff is the same as just about any company out there. Except they sell <st1>EMS</st1> machines and everyone else doesn't. haha.. 

Buying gel packs from one company compared to another.. Hmm.. I think price is the biggest and only real difference, maybe a few % of this or that. 

Energy bars.. Matter of preference mostly.. What tastes good to you?

Other additives.. Try putting a little salt in your water bottle and eat a few Tums like mentioned already.

I’m no nutrition professional, but I can read past the marketing hype as well as anyone I’m guessing.<o></o>

I’ve used a little salt in my camelbak a few times with a touch of lemon/lime concentrate. Tastes fine and works well enough. Doesn’t compare to other drink mixes but provides the basics and a slight touch of vitamins.


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## acousticbike (Jul 6, 2007)

If you are wanting to use the tablets to replace water and electrolytes, a cheaper alternative would be to use Pedialyte or the World Health Organization's oral rehydration solution. Both were designed to prevent dehydration from diarrhea, but also work to replace fluid and electrolytes from sweating. It is easy on the gut and quickly absorbed.

Sweat is primarily water, but also contains, salt (NaCl), potassium, and magnesium. If you are eating a healthy diet that meets potassium and magnesium requirements, I highly doubt that you will lose enough of these elctrolytes through sweat in an average workout to affect performance. (Especially if you're also eating energy bars or gels during the workout.) So likely water with a bit of salt is all that's needed.

Google "WHO oral rehydration formula" and you should get a number of hits on how to mix your own. (Bonus: it's also good for third world travel!)


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## rogerstg (Aug 1, 2007)

ZoSoSwiM said:


> I’ve used a little salt in my camelbak a few times with a touch of lemon/lime concentrate. Tastes fine and works well enough. Doesn’t compare to other drink mixes but provides the basics and a slight touch of vitamins.


+1. FWIW, if you use Lite Salt it will be comparable to other drink mixes since it contains similar proportions of potassium and trace amounts of magnesium. Basically it is a mixture of plain salt and salt substitute.


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## allison (Apr 19, 2006)

Are you racing, or just riding recreationally? I use more "products" for racing and then endurance/training. 

I may use a drink mix of some kind on normal rides and eat primarily trail food, but use less pills, etc. 

But, if you are just riding recreationally either cut the dose in half, or just follow what has been said here!


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## jabpn (Oct 14, 2005)

allison said:


> Are you racing, or just riding recreationally? I use more "products" for racing and then endurance/training.
> 
> I may use a drink mix of some kind on normal rides and eat primarily trail food, but use less pills, etc.
> 
> But, if you are just riding recreationally either cut the dose in half, or just follow what has been said here!


I sweat...a lot. More than anybody I know or have come across. I'll start sweating heavily a quarter mile into my ride. I've tried adding regular salt as well as salt substitute for the potassium (I've tried various amounts). I'm still cramping near the end even though I feel fine. I don't race but my typical rides are 21/2 to 31/2 hrs long. I still carry plain water as well as some type of energy bar/gels for the carb maintenance before/during/after the ride. 

Another problem I have is that I usually get a headache after every ride. Doctor can't find anything wrong and blood work is fine. I notice that I feel "tight" after riding despite maintaining adequate hydration so I'm hoping it's just an electrolyte that's low. So far I've ruled out lack of water, sugar, potassium, and salt. Since there are two kinds of salts and Potassium as well as Magnesium I'm hoping one of three I don't currently get in my own mixtures will be the key or keys I'm missing. I'm taking a Mag. tablet with a multi-vitamin (w/o iron) in the morning but if I sweat it out I still need to replace it.


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## rogerstg (Aug 1, 2007)

jabpn said:


> II'm still cramping near the end even though I feel fine. I don't race but my typical rides are 21/2 to 31/2 hrs long. I still carry plain water as well as some type of energy bar/gels for the carb maintenance before/during/after the ride.


Electrolytes are probably not the issue as much as lack of water. FWIW, I don't sweat too excessively, yet I go through two 24 oz bottles easily on a 2 hr ride after hydrating well before the ride. Any less and I get cramping, esp in my feet and legs. Only my first bottle might have any kind of salt added.


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## HikenBike (Apr 3, 2007)

jabpn said:


> I sweat...a lot. More than anybody I know or have come across. I'll start sweating heavily a quarter mile into my ride. I've tried adding regular salt as well as salt substitute for the potassium (I've tried various amounts). I'm still cramping near the end even though I feel fine. I don't race but my typical rides are 21/2 to 31/2 hrs long. I still carry plain water as well as some type of energy bar/gels for the carb maintenance before/during/after the ride.
> 
> Another problem I have is that I usually get a headache after every ride. Doctor can't find anything wrong and blood work is fine. I notice that I feel "tight" after riding despite maintaining adequate hydration so I'm hoping it's just an electrolyte that's low. So far I've ruled out lack of water, sugar, potassium, and salt. Since there are two kinds of salts and Potassium as well as Magnesium I'm hoping one of three I don't currently get in my own mixtures will be the key or keys I'm missing. I'm taking a Mag. tablet with a multi-vitamin (w/o iron) in the morning but if I sweat it out I still need to replace it.


If I'm riding longer than 2.5 hours, I use Hammer Perpetuem. I swear by this stuff for long rides. For the shorter rides, Heed is sufficient. While using these two products, I have never bonked or cramped.


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## jabpn (Oct 14, 2005)

rogerstg said:


> Electrolytes are probably not the issue as much as lack of water. FWIW, I don't sweat too excessively, yet I go through two 24 oz bottles easily on a 2 hr ride after hydrating well before the ride. Any less and I get cramping, esp in my feet and legs. Only my first bottle might have any kind of salt added.


I have two 32oz bottles that I use. I'll go through one an hour, sometimes 1 1/2 (there are refill points during my ride). I do the same with one bottle (I keep refilling at the points) with a concentrated energy/salt-salt substitute mix.


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## jabpn (Oct 14, 2005)

HikenBike said:


> If I'm riding longer than 2.5 hours, I use Hammer Perpetuem. I swear by this stuff for long rides. For the shorter rides, Heed is sufficient. While using these two products, I have never bonked or cramped.


I've used it for century rides. It does works. But, it is too expensive to use everyday so I'm back to the original question I posted. I also posted this at MTBR and somebody suggested Nutrabiotic Essential Electrolytes so I'm going to give these a try. There are some differences between Endurolytes but they are very close.


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## allison (Apr 19, 2006)

jabpn said:


> I sweat...a lot. More than anybody I know or have come across. I'll start sweating heavily a quarter mile into my ride. I've tried adding regular salt as well as salt substitute for the potassium (I've tried various amounts). I'm still cramping near the end even though I feel fine. I don't race but my typical rides are 21/2 to 31/2 hrs long. I still carry plain water as well as some type of energy bar/gels for the carb maintenance before/during/after the ride.
> 
> Another problem I have is that I usually get a headache after every ride. Doctor can't find anything wrong and blood work is fine. I notice that I feel "tight" after riding despite maintaining adequate hydration so I'm hoping it's just an electrolyte that's low. So far I've ruled out lack of water, sugar, potassium, and salt. Since there are two kinds of salts and Potassium as well as Magnesium I'm hoping one of three I don't currently get in my own mixtures will be the key or keys I'm missing. I'm taking a Mag. tablet with a multi-vitamin (w/o iron) in the morning but if I sweat it out I still need to replace it.


Start also taking a calcium pill everyday. Can't hurt  Hubby cramps a lot and I finally made him start taking them and so far so good. We've yet to do an incredibly hard ride (on road or off) in heat, so we'll see when it warms up.

You could also check into Elete drops. I use them in my Camelbak/bottles. May or may not be cheaper than the Endurolytes. It's just concentrated sea salt. They stopped me from getting headaches last year, but I'm back to getting headaches again (may be a food deficiency thing, I've yet to diagnose the problem).


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## Under ACrookedSky (Nov 8, 2005)

Endurolytes suck. They have very little sodium. For example, one capsule of Endurloytes has 40 mg of sodium. One capsule of Saltstick has 215 mg. Succeed! S caps have 344 mg. Elete water has 125 mg. Endurolytes have 25 mg of potassium per capsule. Saltstick has 63 mg. I forget what Succeed! has. Elete has 45 mg.

The end result is that you need to consume a small handfull of Endurolytes for every one capsule of other providers. When you can get away with one Succeed! capsule per hour, you have to choke down seven or eight Endurolyte capsules. Gagging down a capsule every ten minutes is not my idea of fun.

This might not be too bad if Endurolytes were priced reasonably, but they are not. They are a rip off. You pay a lot more for them than the alternatives. Saltstick costs about the same as Endurloytes, but since you have to take four or five times as many Endurolytes, you are actually paying four or five times as much. Succeed! S caps cost almost half as much as Endurolytes; since you need to take five to eight times as many Endurolytes, you are paying ten to sixteen times more.

Succeed! S Caps cost $10.50 for a hundred capsules. They are probably the most reasonably priced of the various capsules. I personally use a combination of Saltstick and Elete water. Saltstick because they claim their formulation is derived from empirical data about the make up of sweat, and it seems to work for me. Elete because it is very convenient way to add some electrolytes to plain water, which gives a nice baseline of electrolyte intake before even having to think about choking down pills. Saltstick is about $17.50 for a hundred capsules, although I have seen six capsule packages for $0.99, which would come out to less than $20 for 120. I always buy the starter packs of Elete and I cannot remember how much they cost; they include 16 oz. of Elete along with a bunch of smaller packages.

I don't use Endurolytes because I think it is an overpriced crap product and their labelling is mildly deceptive. Every other vendor lists the contents of a single capsule on their bottles. Endurolytes lists the contents of three capsules, making it seem like they contain more than they do. I don't know about their current labels, but the one bottle I still have does not even list the amount of sodium, making it difficult to compare to other products. This misleading labelling destroyed a race of mine once, and I hold a grudge because of it.  

As mentioned above, if you don't want to buy one of the specific electrolyte solutions then Morton Lite Salt is cheap, cheap, cheap. Sometimes it is not as convenient, which is pretty much the story of all the alternatives for "high-tech" sports nutrition.


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## parity (Feb 28, 2006)

But Endurolytes are the only ones with the hidden goodness:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2008/neben_court_case08


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## tiger (Apr 15, 2004)

jabpn said:


> I sweat...a lot.
> Another problem I have is that I usually get a headache after every ride. .


Sounds like hyponatremia. You'd best do some research on it. Drinking plain water is one of the worst things you can do to worsen it. Basically you are losing too much sodium through your sweat and your serum sodium level gets too low. The fact that you are getting headaches means it's pretty severe. Best to contact an endurance coach or a sports medicine doctor who is familiar with the condition. In the worst case scenario, prolonged salty sweating and drinking too much free water, this can lead to seizures and even death. Lean more about it...some of the other suggestions in this thread are downright dangerous if it is exercise-induced hyponatremia.


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## Leopold Porkstacker (Jul 15, 2005)

jabpn said:


> As much as I would like to be able to afford them I can't. Not at 4 pills an hour. Are there cheaper alternatives that exist or are there any good suppliers of the salts etc. where one can blend their own electrolyte substance?












Cannot go wrong with the salt pork.


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## Under ACrookedSky (Nov 8, 2005)

parity said:


> But Endurolytes are the only ones with the hidden goodness:
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2008/neben_court_case08


Forgot about that. Just hope that the contamination in your next bottle is steroids and not something that will make your willie shrivel up and fall off.


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## Forrest Root (Dec 22, 2006)

tiger said:


> Sounds like hyponatremia. You'd best do some research on it. Drinking plain water is one of the worst things you can do to worsen it. Basically you are losing too much sodium through your sweat and your serum sodium level gets too low. The fact that you are getting headaches means it's pretty severe. Best to contact an endurance coach or a sports medicine doctor who is familiar with the condition. In the worst case scenario, prolonged salty sweating and drinking too much free water, this can lead to seizures and even death. Lean more about it...some of the other suggestions in this thread are downright dangerous if it is exercise-induced hyponatremia.


Maybe it's a tumor. How common is hyponatremia? Not very. How much is it hyped in sports media? Way too much. The induced fear rivals that of BPA poisoning. It's severe? Does that mean you've made a diagnosis?

FYI#1: Guess what one of the symptoms of dehydration is? That's right: headaches.

FYI#2: Hyponatremia is extremely unlikely after a ride of a few hours. Ultra endurance sports folks are more likely to get hyponatremia, and even then, it's not something that happens every day.

FYI#3: Scare tactics demonstrate bad taste. Maybe the OP has some new disorder wherein people excrete atomized potasium, magnesium, and sodium through their lungs leading to, eventually, spontaneous liquification of internal organs and genitalia. He better go to a doc right now to be sure he doesn't have that new disorder.


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## Under ACrookedSky (Nov 8, 2005)

tiger said:


> Sounds like hyponatremia. You'd best do some research on it. Drinking plain water is one of the worst things you can do to worsen it. Basically you are losing too much sodium through your sweat and your serum sodium level gets too low. The fact that you are getting headaches means it's pretty severe. Best to contact an endurance coach or a sports medicine doctor who is familiar with the condition. In the worst case scenario, prolonged salty sweating and drinking too much free water, this can lead to seizures and even death. Lean more about it...some of the other suggestions in this thread are downright dangerous if it is exercise-induced hyponatremia.


Hyponatremia usually occurs when two things are true: You have lost a lot of electrolytes, which takes many hours, and you have diluted what electrolytes you have left, usually with plain water. Your body will attempt to bring itself back into balance by pushing water out of your system, so a good sign of hyponatremia is the need to pee often, even though you may be sweating more than you are drinking; the urine can be almost as clear as water. 

Hyponatremia is unlikey after just a few hours of exercise. The sodium content of sweat varies from about 250 mg to 1800 mg per liter. A heat acclimatized athlete has a lower sodium content in his sweat. The average american has around 80,000 mg of sodium in his body. To produce hyponatremia in three hours you would have to sweat very profusely (like 2 liters per hour), have that sweat be at the high end of electrolyte content, and replace the liquid with several liters of low electrolyte content liquid. This would be most likely to occur to someone who is not heat acclimatized exercising in a hot and humid climate and consuming (4 - 6) liters of water. Basically, you need to compress what it takes to produce hyponatremia in the usual six to twelve hours down to three hours. That is not easy.

Electrolyte problems are not normal for 2.5 - 3.5 hour rides. The OP should weigh himself before and after exercise. Most likely he will find that he is somewhat dehydrated. Also he should make sure he is acclimatized to the heat.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

My training buddy and I randomly get headaches after long races/rides. We've tried various combos of food & drink and haven't found anything that prevents them from happening. However, I do find that a couple of Tylenol do the trick to get rid of them.

Oh yeah, and Elete stuff is great. I use the drops and the caps.


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## jabpn (Oct 14, 2005)

Under ACrookedSky said:


> Electrolyte problems are not normal for 2.5 - 3.5 hour rides. The OP should weigh himself before and after exercise. Most likely he will find that he is somewhat dehydrated. Also he should make sure he is acclimatized to the heat.


I have done this and I am within a lb or two of my normal weight. I've heard dehydration is more along the lines of four or five pounds difference. 

Anyway, my main issue is the cramping. How this comes into play with the headaches is that I get migraines anyway and my doctor feels they are muscle tension related. If I'm to the point of cramping, which does affect my entire body besides the legs - seeming general muscle fatigue if you will, this would naturally affect my neck muscles which, given typical riding position, would only exacerbate the issue. 

To be honest I don't even know if cramping is the right word for what I experience. I get to the point where my leg muscles seize on me. It's not an ab side cramp like one would get from running where there's pain but technically if you could stand the pain you could keep going. I get to the point where I have to get off the bike and completely relax the muscle in question. If I don't, if I use that muscle to move even an inch it feels like the muscle refuses to extend or contract with use and instead tries to seize. It almost feels like if you let the sensation continue you would tear the muscle in two. That's the only way I can explain the "impending doom if you don't hurry up and relax" feeling I get. If it didn't feel like it would result in a rather large amount of pain it would be interesting to let the pain happen just to see whether or not it would actually hurt/result in an actual injury. 

Anyway I digress. At this point I'm just trying to rule out some low electrolyte level. I started playing around with salt to see the effect. Then adding the salt substitute and experimenting to see if there was any effect. Now I'm moving onto the other three but I haven't found them individually in the chelated form (more gets absorbed with the chelated) so I'm doing the next best thing with the complete solution. Seen as how they play a pivotal role in muscle contraction it seems reasonable to at least try and see if that's the issue. It may just be that I work to hard for to long and and my body is letting me know to stop. I'm fine the next day. I typically tend to tolerate pain very well so although I'm mentally fine I may be subconsciously ignoring other signs my body is telling me to take it easy. But one step at a time starting with the electrolytes.


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## jabpn (Oct 14, 2005)

Andrea138 said:


> My training buddy and I randomly get headaches after long races/rides. We've tried various combos of food & drink and haven't found anything that prevents them from happening. However, I do find that a couple of Tylenol do the trick to get rid of them.
> 
> Oh yeah, and Elete stuff is great. I use the drops and the caps.


Yeah, if I take an Ibuprofen or two the headache normally goes away and this is usual for me with my migraines.


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## allison (Apr 19, 2006)

jabpn said:


> Anyway I digress. At this point I'm just trying to rule out some low electrolyte level. I started playing around with salt to see the effect. Then adding the salt substitute and experimenting to see if there was any effect. Now I'm moving onto the other three but I haven't found them individually in the chelated form (more gets absorbed with the chelated) so I'm doing the next best thing with the complete solution. Seen as how they play a pivotal role in muscle contraction it seems reasonable to at least try and see if that's the issue. It may just be that I work to hard for to long and and my body is letting me know to stop. I'm fine the next day. I typically tend to tolerate pain very well so although I'm mentally fine I may be subconsciously ignoring other signs my body is telling me to take it easy. But one step at a time starting with the electrolytes.


Seriously, try calcium pills daily. I get the Target brand pills  You may even be able to cut back on the Endurolytes.


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## HomebrewMTB (Jan 14, 2008)

To actually answer your question, Nutribiotic Essential Electrolytes are $6 for 100 capsules if you like capsules. 


















However, I've been juicing my water bottle with a packet or two of Emergen-C and works great.


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## dekindy (Jul 7, 2006)

You did not specify what else you were using. When I was doing research for energy sources for the Ride Across Indiana I found that Perpetuem, in additon to being a good long term fuel source, has 4 of the 6 Endurolyte ingredients in significant to adequate amounts and a small amount of the fifth ingredient. Check it out.


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## Under ACrookedSky (Nov 8, 2005)

HomebrewMTB said:


> To actually answer your question, Nutribiotic Essential Electrolytes are $6 for 100 capsules if you like capsules.


And you need several capsules for every one made by others, so the price per mg of electrolyes is actually higher (though it is better than Endurolytes).


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## tyro (May 15, 2005)

HikenBike said:


> If I'm riding longer than 2.5 hours, I use Hammer Perpetuem. I swear by this stuff for long rides. For the shorter rides, Heed is sufficient. While using these two products, I have never bonked or cramped.


How do you use the Perpetuem? I tried some but it filled one of my water bottles and then I had to refill it too much. 

I like the idea of the Hammer stuff but right now I use two bottles with more diluted Clif electrolyte drink with Clif Shot gels, Clif Bars, and Clif Mojo Bars for fueling. I find that I have to have some sort of solid food on long rides.


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## 53T (Jul 20, 2002)

Have you determined that you benefit from 4 per hour, over say 2 per hour?

Unlike the other posters here, I use these capsules with good results, and I am no supplement hound. I belive in a good diet. However, I do see the benefit of three different salts. The other posters mention the imporatnace of sodium, but a shortage of the the other two have been linked to problems during races. I use them to stave off upper and lower leg cramps on the hot days. Of course training has has same effect, so don't confuse this with a scientific study!


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