# My new Neo Pro



## smokva

First images:


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## smokva

...and now impressions 

Bike looks great and build quality is superb.
I'm not one of those guys that will glorify something that is mine so I'll just say it honest...I'm not that impressed with the ride, actually first impressions are way below what I expected...I'm disappointed to be honest!
This bike is so flexy that it scares me. BB area and rear end are OK, but front end is so soft that it feels like it is made of springs and not tubes.
I'm also very disappointed with Deda Zero 100 stem and Newton Anatomic bars. They flex too much, and I hate the shape of the bars.
This was my first ride and I set my bars too high and left the fork uncut but I don't believe any of that adds much flex.
I don't know...I'm coming from ultra stiff aluminum De Rosa Team so maybe I'm not used to carbon. But if this is comfort of the carbon everyone is talking about I don't like it.
Maybe I just have to get used to it ...we'll see after I lower the bars and cut the fork.
Stiff but comfortable my arse...you can't have both. The frame is size 60...smaller frames might work just fine, but this one is definitive not a race bike. It might be nice century bike, but racing...no way.
We shall see will I change my opinion after few hundred miles...maybe I'll learn to ride on soft and not on a rock what my old alu bike was.


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## enac

First off, your bike looks great. Stunning really. You really went all out with the Lightweight wheelset. Smokva, give it a bit of time to get used to the new ride. You have a new frameset which is not only made of a material you are not yet familiar with, but is also several sizes larger than your previous ride. You are also riding on carbon rims and tubulars. That all being said, your first impression may be correct. Time will tell.

I went from an aluminum Merak to a King 3, and maybe like you, I built up this unrealistic expectation that the ride would be worlds better than my Merak. I timed myself on one of my first rides through a uphill section of a local loop , and failed to match times that I had been setting, on my replacement Merak, weeks earlier. I thought I'd smash those times on a bike that was 3lbs lighter. It took me about a month or so to get used to the feel of the bike--the fit of the frame and saddle height & its placement, riding on carbon rim tubulars, getting used to compact gearing etc. The one thing I loved about my new KING 3,right out of the gate, were the DEDA NEWTON shallow bars. They took no getting used to. I also never noticed any flex from the stem and bars. I am 6-1 and weigh 190lbs. The other thing I noticed were how the BORAS accelerated much better than the Mavic Ksyriums.

2 months later, I knocked 4 minutes off the times I was setting on the Merak. Was it the bike??? It had more to do with the fact that my fitness had improved. It also had a lot to do with the fact that I learned that I could use the big chain ring of the Compact on a great portion of the climb. The point is, it took time for me to get familiar with the new bike.


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## smokva

Lightewigts are not mine, I just tried them for 10-15 minutes and seized the opportunity for nice photo session  So the wheelset is not the issue here, I was riding my old ones for two hours.
Today I'll play with the bars position and if weather lets me will try to jam on my local benchmark hill (4,5 km; 7,3% avg) which will give good indication on climbing abilities of this bike.
On flat it goes fine...I gave it a good try yesterday and 39-40 km/h was a sustainable speed on flat sections...depending on the wind I was able to go 38 in one direction and 41 in other. But when I hit a bump on the road front end just wobbles and soaks it, something I'm not used to. I don't like that feeling. Also out of the saddle I can feel bars playing from right to left...and I think this flex comes from the top tube. I hope lowering the bars will shorten the lever and reduce flex.
BTW I'm 188 cm and 100 kg (6-2, 220 lbs) and I can jam really hard which makes me great candidate for stiffness test


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## eff_dee

smokva,

do the tubes have any shape to them, or are they just round everywhere ?


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## roadmoggy

looks the dogs man

you may have the same problem i don't own frames i fall in love with them and it seems you're still holding a torch for your team

it also takes me a good couple of hunded mile to even get e feel for a bike so i would give it time

however after riding a dual which i loved then going over to titanium which i hated, i could'nt wait to get my leg over a de rosa again

they are bikes of sheer beauty


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## smokva

eff_dee said:


> smokva,
> 
> do the tubes have any shape to them, or are they just round everywhere ?


From what I can see they are round everywhere and i didn't notice they are going to oval anywhere.


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## eff_dee

Have you test ridden any C-series Colnagos ? Be interesting to hear how the Neo Pro compares to something like the Ext-C.


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## smokva

eff_dee said:


> Have you test ridden any C-series Colnagos ? Be interesting to hear how the Neo Pro compares to something like the Ext-C.


I did try few of them for a minute or so. Almoast all my friends have Colnagos, but they are all too small for me so I can't give you any smart conclusion.
When I think better there are more than few Colnagos in our group 
4x C50
1x EPS
1x ExtremeC
2x CT2
2x C40
1x CT1


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## enac

If the bike really is flexy, can you return it, and exchange it for a KING 3? The KING 3 has a beefier front end.


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## ClassicSteel71

Top notch build...


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## eff_dee

I'm assuming your Neo Pro will be too big for your friends, but give them a test just for some kind of comparison.


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## MERAKMAN

Antes, Sorry to hear about your disappointing first impressions. All I can say is try and lower the stem, as you said. If that doesn't get rid of the wobbles then I'm stumped! I know a large frame probably won't be as stiff as smaller sizes, but it should still give you the confident feeling you need to descend quickly. Hope it works out for you.:thumbsup:


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## smokva

Today I lowered bars for 2 cm and it felt like totally new bike. Front end was more stable and general feeling was much better now. I'm not sure am I getting used to it but today I was pleased with performance.
I was climbing my local hill and I can say this bike can climb  BB area and rear end are stiff and direct. I already said that I think Deda bar and stem were flexy and today it really showed on the climb. On steep sections I can feel both ends of bars are moving when pulling them on the climb in the saddle. It is best seen off the bike if you apply the force on the end of the bars...whole bars can twist and torsional movement of the stem is very clear. Also I can't stand the shape of Newton anatomic, there is no position in the drops for which I can say suits me.
With new build I wasn't brave enough to chase speed records going down, so I opted for slow descend going some 45-50 km/h. Didn't notice any instability, but I'm not much of descender anyway.

So with lowered bars feeling was dramatically changed and I think stiffer stem and bars would give it another level up. I'm hesitated to put my old beefy FSA stem/bars up just to see how it goes.

Tomorrow (it's actually today already) I'm doing a real men test, ride of 130+ km and some 1300+ m of climbing but I think I can already say the frame is a keeper.


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## rocco

smokva said:


> I already said that I think Deda bar and stem were flexy and today it really showed on the climb. On steep sections I can feel both ends of bars are moving when pulling them on the climb in the saddle. It is best seen off the bike if you apply the force on the end of the bars...whole bars can twist and torsional movement of the stem is very clear. Also I can't stand the shape of Newton anatomic, there is no position in the drops for which I can say suits me.


I'm somewhat surprised that you're finding the Deda stem and bars are flexy though not at all surprised about your opinion about the anatomic shape. I find anatomic shaped bars to be a total oxymoron. I'd highly recommend a more classic deep drop, Belgian style bar for you.


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## smokva

Ok, I must admit it...after every ride I like it more.
It climbs very good and it is comfortable on long rides, the things that mean the most to me.
Rear end and BB area are stiff enough so there no important flexing even on my frame which is size 60. Front end is somewhat softer but in a good way, my hands like it after long ride. I think smaller frames will be exceptional in every aspect.
- speed on flat: excellent
- climbing: very good
- sprint: good
- comfort: excellent
Final verdict: it is a keeper

On the other hand Newton bars and Zero100 stem will probably be replaced with something not so light and butted.


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## Ride-Fly

smokva said:


> First images:


Hey Smokva, when you say you lowered the stem 2 cm, did you use a lower angle stem or take out the spacers??? I would assume you took out the spacers as that was most likely a huge factor in the flexy front end- you have or had in the pictures, a lot of spacers!!! If you haven't already done so, try getting rid of all but 5mm of spacers and when you get your new stem and bar, go with a 84/-6 stem or slightly higher to get you at the correct height. That, along with say a Thomson X2 will probably have you feeling plenty stiff up front. BTW, a beautiful ride ya gots there!!!


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## smokva

Ride-Fly said:


> Hey Smokva, when you say you lowered the stem 2 cm, did you use a lower angle stem or take out the spacers??? I would assume you took out the spacers as that was most likely a huge factor in the flexy front end- you have or had in the pictures, a lot of spacers!!! If you haven't already done so, try getting rid of all but 5mm of spacers and when you get your new stem and bar, go with a 84/-6 stem or slightly higher to get you at the correct height. That, along with say a Thomson X2 will probably have you feeling plenty stiff up front. BTW, a beautiful ride ya gots there!!!


Yes, I took 2-3 cm of spacers out and it feels much better now. Front end is still flexy, but in a way I can live with.


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## smokva

Now, after I've made some 1000 km on this bike I can give final review.
As I said before, biggest disappointment with the bike is front end flex. Now, I'm sure it comes from the frame, and the amount of the flex is just ridiculous which sometimes makes the ride unpleasant and annoying. I think there was a big flaw made with the design of this frame, in size 60 it just doesn't work as it should, it is wrong. To be honest I didn't expect super stiff frame, but front end on this is out of the scale soft.
I'm not sure what to say about BB area and rear end. I didn't notice anything wrong there, but that might be only because front end is so dominant that you don't see anything beyond that.
The finish of the frame is superb and it looks absolutely beautiful. It is not big deal to clean matt color, it takes only slightly more effort than gloss ones.

Honest statement is that I would never buy it if I had a chance to test ride it, but now it is here I'll keep it. Does it annoy me? Yes it does. Will I buy De Rosa again? Probably not, at least not without test ride, and chance for that is almost zero. If I knew all this few months ago I would probably get Colnago EPS. My advice is to stay away from Neo Pro, it is not worth the money.

Soon I'll write a letter about this to De Rosa, not to claim justice or something like that, but to try to help them to improve their carbon offerings.


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## ClassicSteel71

smokva said:


> Now, after I've made some 1000 km on this bike I can give final review.
> As I said before, biggest disappointment with the bike is front end flex. Now, I'm sure it comes from the frame, and the amount of the flex is just ridiculous which sometimes makes the ride unpleasant and annoying. I think there was a big flaw made with the design of this frame, in size 60 it just doesn't work as it should, it is wrong. To be honest I didn't expect super stiff frame, but front end on this is out of the scale soft.
> I'm not sure what to say about BB area and rear end. I didn't notice anything wrong there, but that might be only because front end is so dominant that you don't see anything beyond that.
> The finish of the frame is superb and it looks absolutely beautiful. It is not big deal to clean matt color, it takes only slightly more effort than gloss ones.
> 
> Honest statement is that I would never buy it if I had a chance to test ride it, but now it is here I'll keep it. Does it annoy me? Yes it does. Will I buy De Rosa again? Probably not, at least not without test ride, and chance for that is almost zero. If I knew all this few months ago I would probably get Colnago EPS. My advice is to stay away from Neo Pro, it is not worth the money.
> 
> Soon I'll write a letter about this to De Rosa, not to claim justice or something like that, but to try to help them to improve their carbon offerings.


This is testament to why you test ride frames before buying them.


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## enac

If the frame is junk, is it possible for you to sell the frame and buy an EPS? I know you'll take an loss due to depreciation, but at least you'll have a frame that doesn't flex. Every time you get out of the saddle and hammer on your Neo Pro, you'll notice the flex, and it will nag and nag at you until you finally decide to replace the frame with something stiffer. I'd definitely contact De Rosa and let them know. Sounds like they should offer something strong and stiff for taller/bigger riders.Is there a weight limit for the Neo Pro?


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## smokva

ClassicSteel71 said:


> This is testament to why you test ride frames before buying them.


Yes, you are so right. Unfortunately for me, finding a frame I want to test ride in my size is almost impossible.


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## smokva

enac said:


> If the frame is junk, is it possible for you to sell the frame and buy an EPS? I know you'll take an loss due to depreciation, but at least you'll have a frame that doesn't flex. Every time you get out of the saddle and hammer on your Neo Pro, you'll notice the flex, and it will nag and nag at you until you finally decide to replace the frame with something stiffer. I'd definitely contact De Rosa and let them know. Sounds like they should offer something strong and stiff for taller/bigger riders.Is there a weight limit for the Neo Pro?


Since I ordered it with my name on the top tube it might be hard to sell it 
I contacted De Rosa about this frame before buying, explaining them in short that I'm strong and powerful big rider and that I'm concerned about the stiffness of the frame. Basically I got the answer that there is no weight limit and that it will be stiff enough for my 100 kg. That was the trigger for me to order it.

I'm not very pleased that with this review I undermine De Rosa's reputation, but I would be very said to see someone else do the same mistake as I did and buy "spring-frame".


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## Ride-Fly

smokva said:


> I'm not very pleased that with this review I undermine De Rosa's reputation, but I would be very said to see someone else do the same mistake as I did and buy "spring-frame".


Ante, you are a class act. Throughout your ordeal, you have been very forthright, candid, and have even tried to give De Rosa invaluable feedback. Not many people will admit their new pride and joy that cost a bundle is less than stellar. But you did so with the intention of preventing other bigger riders avoid your predicament. Kudos to you my friend!


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## eff_dee

Smokva,

What attracted you to the Neo Pro in the first place ? Did you consider King 3 or Idol ?


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## smokva

eff_dee said:


> Smokva,
> 
> What attracted you to the Neo Pro in the first place ? Did you consider King 3 or Idol ?


I wanted classic lugged construction without integrated seat post and with regular (non sloping) geometry. All of that excludes both King 3 and Idol from consideration.


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## nickb4

The Look 585 Ultra fits into this category and is plenty stiff. You can pretty easily find an online deal on a 585 too which may possibly take away some of the financial pain from the hit you will take if you decide to sell the De Rosa.


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## enac

smokva said:


> Since I ordered it with my name on the top tube it might be hard to sell it
> ".



Just tell anyone interested in buying the bike that "Smokva" means "smoking fast" in Italian


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## ClassicSteel71

smokva said:


> Yes, you are so right. Unfortunately for me, finding a frame I want to test ride in my size is almost impossible.


I feel your pain. I would need a boost to get on one of your rides. I'm a midget.


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## Pewe

I'm really surprised that the differences between different modern frames are that big. The Neo Pro is a fairly new model and when you consider De Rosas heritage, well you would think that they picked up some framebuilding skills over the years. I ride a De Rosa Vision (alu) and that bike is superstiff - no flex whatsoever in any situation. In fact , I think that the bike is too stiff for me. I'm not a powerful rider and ride a 54 cm. and lately I've been looking from a more compliant frameset, perhaps high-end steel.

Clearly something must be wrong here. I'm really sorry for Smokva but at the same time appreciate his honesty. 

It will be very interesting to hear what De Rosa have to say about this. Personally I think they should compensate Smokva for this. Afterall, he did contacted them before the buy and the advice they gave him was that it was OK with a Neo Pro, even if he was a big and powerful rider. Not a good advice if you ask me.


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## smokva

My alu De Rosa Team is also stiff as it needs to be, so I still wonder how can they make a frame this soft.


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## eff_dee

I wonder how a larger size C50 or Extreme Power would feel ? 

Perhaps DeRosa overlooked the performance of the frame in the larger sizes ?


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## ciclisto

Mr. smovka, I was interested in a Neo Pro after seeing one today at the shop (frame only) it is quite well made as is my Macro. The matt finish is nice but i like paint.; I came home and then read this thread. wow..... reminds me of when after a year of heavy training I rewarded myself with an expensive Colnago C50 my first modern bike...all steel before.
I had the same impression : I tried all kinds of bikes and everyone said the Colnago is the one. well I was disappointed in much the same manner. It rode well but not quite steel, but was too much an all rounder frame. it does everything well but nothing superbly. Funny but at the dealer he said the Neo Pro was a C50 competitor in it being a do everything long rider, I quess he was right .... I still have my C50 after three years it is beautiful and well made, but like finding a hot women and marrying her and then the real deal emerges and she is a dud.
some day I'll fix this,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that's why I was looking at the Neo Pro...............maybe the IDOL then.........any ideas..............want a stiff climber comfort is secondary. already have this in the Macro but then the necessary number of bikes to own is (current number+1)


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## enac

The KING 3 is the stiffist of the carbon bikes.


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## MERAKMAN

New 2010 Idol...


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## smokva

eff_dee said:


> I wonder how a larger size C50 or Extreme Power would feel ?
> 
> Perhaps DeRosa overlooked the performance of the frame in the larger sizes ?


Yes, I wonder the same but about EPS


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## smokva

ciclisto said:


> Mr. smovka, I was interested in a Neo Pro after seeing one today at the shop (frame only) it is quite well made as is my Macro. The matt finish is nice but i like paint.; I came home and then read this thread. wow..... reminds me of when after a year of heavy training I rewarded myself with an expensive Colnago C50 my first modern bike...all steel before.
> I had the same impression : I tried all kinds of bikes and everyone said the Colnago is the one. well I was disappointed in much the same manner. It rode well but not quite steel, but was too much an all rounder frame. it does everything well but nothing superbly. Funny but at the dealer he said the Neo Pro was a C50 competitor in it being a do everything long rider, I quess he was right .... I still have my C50 after three years it is beautiful and well made, but like finding a hot women and marrying her and then the real deal emerges and she is a dud.
> some day I'll fix this,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that's why I was looking at the Neo Pro...............maybe the IDOL then.........any ideas..............want a stiff climber comfort is secondary. already have this in the Macro but then the necessary number of bikes to own is (current number+1)


Is that Neo Pro your size? Can you test ride it? I would like to hear some other opinion about this frame too.


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## enac

except for paint the new 2010 Neo Pro appears to be unchanged.


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## MERAKMAN

Hi Enac

Could I ask where you found that piccy? Like the look of that paint job!


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## wollemoppel

*The Neo Pro*

I read your posts with great interest. I was interested in the Neo Pro for its pure beauty. I think its one of these bikes where not a single little detail is out of proportion. And when I came across an unbeatable deal I just had to buy it.
I didn't do so many miles yet - but I must say that I consider it a stunning bike for climbing ( compared to my C40).
I do agree that it needs attention on the decent - as it is very sensitive. I can't confirm that it lacks stiffness (I ride a 58cm) - its more that every tiny little steering is directly translated into motion.
I tightened the head-set somewhat more than usual and run a shorter stem - which did some improvement - but could it be that the fork doesn't fit this frame too well. But the King uses the same design. Any set-up tips are welcome. Besides that - I don't know - I love it - its superbly crafted, extremely responsive and ultra comfy. I don't really ask for more - but I'm not a racer.

So long


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## ciclisto

for whatit is worth I had this problem on a C50 colnago and going to a 130mm stem solved the problem putting more weight over the front calming the front down as well as elongating the steering some for what it is worth I am no expert........just relating.


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## MERAKMAN

Bigger sizes would indeed be less stiff than the smaller sizes. I've ridden my partners mountain bike, which is much smaller than mine but the exact same model. Hers is as stiff as a wall, mine somewhat less. Some manufacturers use size specific tubing to overcome this..


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## wollemoppel

Somebody working at Spezialized told me that they've found in R&D that the skewers actuallt have to take a large portion of lateral forces - so they infact can increase/decrease the stiffness quite a bit. Any expierience with that. I run Campy Neutrons - with their standard off shelf skewers.


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## MERAKMAN

wollemoppel said:


> Somebody working at Spezialized told me that they've found in R&D that the skewers actuallt have to take a large portion of lateral forces - so they infact can increase/decrease the stiffness quite a bit. Any expierience with that. I run Campy Neutrons - with their standard off shelf skewers.


Really shewers for the wheels? How does this affect the front end stiffness of a frame? Is it about how tightly they are done up? Neutrons are goooooooood!


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## wollemoppel

Well - as I understood - the skewers don't make the frame stiffer but if you consider the flex of the whole system in the front as a sum of individual contributions of frame, handlebar/stem, headset, fork, skewer and wheels you could imagine that in a case where the skewer is the weekest link in the change it would have to take quite some force especially when your wheels/fork are relatively stiff.
On a lateral force the skewer basically acts like a spring drying to hold the dropouts in their position. If it behaves elasitc it will cause flex. Hereby its not how tight they are fastened but the elastic behavior of the pin material. Very theoretic and could be total nonsense.
I agree on the Neutrons - they are the perfect wheel for the buck (although I had to pay a ridiculus amount of money for some spare spokes).
Rode a classic mountain over the weekend - once you get used to the sensitivity of the Neo Pro on the decent I actually start to like the feature because of the handling in technical decents - and once ... more the climbing abilities of that bike are just stunning.


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