# FYI Aquaseal and Seamgrip



## slideeslide (Feb 1, 2007)

Spoke to the folks at McNett who makes Aquaseal which is a great protective coating for your tubies. I'm in a hurry to get my tubies done and I live a bit far from places that carry Aquaseal. They said Seamgrip is the identical product, just slightly thinner than Aquaseal when it comes out of the tube. Exact same product once dry. 

I found the Seamgrip to go on really easy with a acid brush. You can find it at most sporting goods stores.


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## surfamtn (Aug 28, 2006)

I have been using this stuff for two seasons, I second the endorsement! Cheeper than Aquaseal too.
I like the applicator tip for the tube in the pic above, super easy to put on with that.
I think there is another product form them, marketed toward fishermen, Aquasure maybe? All urethane based. I think Shoe goo is the same base ingredients too, but seems a bit thick.


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## endure26 (Jan 27, 2005)

Thanks for the tip. Seems the thinner consistency would actually be better in many ways.


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## seahuston (Sep 2, 2005)

how many tires will one tube do?


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## surfamtn (Aug 28, 2006)

I get booth sides of one tire with about 70-80% of one "seamgrip" tube. My guess is two (7 oz?) tubes would do 3 tires.
It is interesting to hear about the thickness differences between all these products and how it relates to their package size and price.


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## slideeslide (Feb 1, 2007)

I can confirm. 3 tubes equals 3 tires.


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

Good. I just realized I need to get me some. As I was preping my bike for the race this sunday I noticed the walls need some help....


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## lithuania (Dec 22, 2007)

how important is it to use this stuff?


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## mr_pitiful (Aug 21, 2008)

Can I ask why you use this? Does it help with pinch flats?


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## Fanaticbiking (Sep 14, 2005)

keeps dirt and muck out of the sidewalls. Dugast, Challenge, FMB stuff with supple sidewalls need a little weather protection. Keeps them looking all nice as well.

You don't NEED it, but it only helps the tire.


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## wunlap togo (Oct 1, 2004)

I found a product called Seam Seal made by "Coughlan's" in the camping section at Orchard Supply Hardware. I'm sure it's another variation on these other products, it was like $3 and it seems to work nicely. It's quite thin and I've done 5 tires with one tube and I still have some left. It produces gnarly fumes.


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## beaker (Feb 2, 2005)

wunlap togo said:


> I found a product called Seam Seal made by "Coughlan's" in the camping section at Orchard Supply Hardware. I'm sure it's another variation on these other products, it was like $3 and it seems to work nicely. It's quite thin and I've done 5 tires with one tube and I still have some left. It produces gnarly fumes.


Try most chain sporting goods stores, even Walmart, and they will have a similar product. The one that I have seen the most is from Kenyon and can be found with the camping accessories. It's essentially the same product as seam grip or aqua seal, just from a different manufacturer. I've got a couple of tubes of Aquaseal in reserve (samples from when I worked for an outdoor outfitter), but if/when I need some I will probably give the Kenyon product a try.


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## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

Pardon my ignorance--- as I do every OTHER type of biking other than cyclocross. What is the purpose? Why not just use a liquid latex type product in your tire, like Tufo sealant? And wouldn't this product partially "melt" your tire as it bonds with it?


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## bikerb (Oct 7, 2003)

filtersweep said:


> Pardon my ignorance--- as I do every OTHER type of biking other than cyclocross. What is the purpose? Why not just use a liquid latex type product in your tire, like Tufo sealant? And wouldn't this product partially "melt" your tire as it bonds with it?


Um, it goes on the outside of your tire, on the sidewall.


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## jtferraro (Jun 28, 2002)

*Tire Life vs Aquaseal*

I've used both Tire Life & Aquaseal and can say that Aquaseal is way better of a product for this purpose. Tire Life is too thin and requires too many coats. Aquaseal is nice and thick...one coat and you're done...and it leaves a nice glossy finish.


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## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

bikerb said:


> Um, it goes on the outside of your tire, on the sidewall.


Um, I get that. You didn't answer my question: *What is the purpose?* What makes cross tires so "special" that they need this treatment.


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## CrossClimber (Sep 1, 2008)

Do you have a tips to buy Aquaseal in Europe at a good price ?


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## aljames (Jan 18, 2006)

It's not about cross tires being special - it's about protecting your investment. Dugast and FMB cost over £50 GBP each and Challenge are not far behind. Factor in 2 or 3 wheelsets with these tires and the cost mounts up. Without this type of coating I have had my expensive tires with cotton carcasses begin to rot with all the organic acids they come into contact with over the course of a muddy season here in North West England. Then they do not last as long as they can with the coating.

Plus as people have mentioned, it is nice to keep your kit looking good. A filthy bike does not feel as fast as a clean one, and tires are no different.

http://crossjunkie.blogspot.com


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## bikerb (Oct 7, 2003)

filtersweep said:


> Um, I get that. You didn't answer my question: *What is the purpose?* What makes cross tires so "special" that they need this treatment.


Its meant to protect the cotton sidewalls from rotting and abrasions. Has nothing to do with the tube inside like the Tufo stuff you were mentioning.


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## velorick (Sep 5, 2008)

When is the best time to apply--before you glue or after?


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## slideeslide (Feb 1, 2007)

velorick said:


> When is the best time to apply--before you glue or after?


Before, once it has cured the tubie glue that gets on the sidewalls when stretching your tire on easily wipes off. If you do it the other way around the glue gladly bonds to your sidewalls.


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## epicxt (Apr 26, 2005)

*Wow!*



velorick said:


> When is the best time to apply--before you glue or after?


Timely question, and timely answer. I'll be gluing up 2 sets of Grifos this week so I'm glad I checked this thread!


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## mwills (Feb 9, 2006)

*nothing is free...*

and in this case, while these urethane products do add longevity to your tubulars, they also add weight. 

if using aquaseal, expect to add 80-100g of weight per tire. that could be almost 1/2 pound per wheelset  

the thinner the application the less weight. so, in order of increasing weight: Tire Life -> Seam Grip -> AquaSeal


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## slideeslide (Feb 1, 2007)

mwills said:


> if using aquaseal, expect to add 80-100g of weight per tire. that could be almost 1/2 pound per wheelset
> 
> the thinner the application the less weight. so, in order of increasing weight: Tire Life -> Seam Grip -> AquaSeal


Is this just a guess? Or have you actually weigh tires post each of those applications? Most of the weight in the tube is liquid that evaporates when drying. If the weight was that much, people like Sven Nys would go without.


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## mwills (Feb 9, 2006)

nope, not a guess. i did one side of two tires last night. they were 420g before and weighed them at 470g this morning. i assume most of the solvents should be evaporated by now. i was pretty liberal with the application, so this should be the high end of what to expect.


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## gewilli (Dec 18, 2006)

why do this?

Cotton ain't all that strong, this stuff helps with the abrasion and logenvity...

there is a nice shot of a what happens if you don't aquaseal...

and if you are worried about weight, well this is cyclocross... you're bike can pick up 10x the mass of some aquaseal in mud/dirt alone in a given race...

and just to repeat myself

weight... who cares - this is cross, it ain't about the weight of the bike... it is about your traction and not flatting and protecting the $$$ you spend on tubulars


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## 1Fliprider (Nov 9, 2004)

Is the seamgrip recommended also for the clinchers? I have the Grifo clinchers and not sure if the sidewalls are cotton as well.

Thx


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## mwills (Feb 9, 2006)

gewilli - 

settle down. 

i think everyone here knows why you treat the sidewalls. all i was saying is that it comes at a cost. 

if you are spending $120/tire, i'm guessing you also care about how much your bike weighs. if not, AquaSeal/SeamGrip away. i simply wanted those, like myself, to know that this could be a quick way to unknowingly add 0.5lb to your bike. 

yes, this is cross and weight does matter. while you can add weight in mud to your bike during a muddy race, i don't follow the logic that you should always handicap yourself in such way. 0.5lb of rotational weight on your wheels is noticeable.

the only thing treating the sidewalls does is increase the longevity of the tubular - it does nothing for traction (if anything, it reduces it by stiffening the sidewall or reducing its suppleness) or flat protection (in which case, if you are worried about 'tearing' sidewalls you should prolly not run your $120 tubular on this course).


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## gewilli (Dec 18, 2006)

oh right...

forgot...

people around here sneeze $100 bills... 

never mind the fact that if you race in wet conditions water will soak up into the base tape and compromise the fancy glue job that you paid the shop to do... but then why would you want to seal the side wall to prevent that... it is never wet for cross races, and man no way would I use my fancy Dugasts in wet conditions... they are only for dry grass crits where no rocks or water can get to them...

but then hey, if ya only use the tubulars for one season, rip them off and sell them on ebay, no point in aquasealing them.

weight is far less of a factor than cornering, and ability to run low pressure

ya thought i was riled up then? pfah...


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## kykr13 (Apr 12, 2008)

Aquaseal - really?! I've used the stuff for fixing neoprene wetsuits for kayaking but never knew it was good for this... You'll find it at dive shops (as in SCUBA) or if there's a local canoe and kayak shop they'll have it too. Or a mail order place like NRS.


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## jerry_in_VT (Oct 13, 2006)

aaaaaaaahh-CHEW!!!!!

damnit, nothing.


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## mwills (Feb 9, 2006)

gewilli - 

i am having trouble following your argument... or arguments.. as they are mounting with each reply.

to clarify my point, a simple and singular one, i am in no way not arguing the *merits* of tubulars, simply the effects of treating the sidewalls. 

add sidewall treatment you will 1) reduce the suppleness and 2) add weight - both of which are well known advantages of running them in the first place. if you don't care about either, fine, move on, but some people do. 

i would just suggest exercising a bit of restraint when doing so lest you end up with a tire that feels like a Tufo which you could have had for much less $ (and work) in the first place.


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## ZenNMotion (May 28, 2004)

mwills said:


> gewilli -
> 
> settle down.
> 
> ...


Heh. the natives all riled up, what passion! I just did a set of 34c grifos with McNett Aquagrip, makes for shiny sidewalls and a relatively easy glue job. It took about 80% of a 2 oz tube per tire for a thorough coat (Aquaseal is thicker, really? The thinner aquagrip product seemed as thick as I'd want to use). So let's do the math, more fun than gear charts! 2 oz= 56g. Let's say at least 20% of that is solvent that evaporates (woo hoo! I'm not doing it in the basement again:arf: ). So 56g-40%= 34g per tire = 0.08lbs. Whoa, that's revolving weight, there went my nats jersey, maybe I should cut out a couple of spokes...


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

Having aquasealed a pair of tubulars this weekend, I find ZenNMotion's weight numbers more plausible than mwills.


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## jerry_in_VT (Oct 13, 2006)

Fact is all the PROs in Belgium do it. Good enough for them, good enough for me. And yes, most of them pay for most of their Dugasts. 

J

aaaah-CHEW. DAMNIT still nothing!


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## gewilli (Dec 18, 2006)

well hell - i'd sooner run clinchers than the tufos...

tried em ones... talk about one of the worst cornering tread patterns in the world...

i wouldn't aquaseal those things either...

only something as special and delicate and kick ass as a Dugast FMB or Challenge...

but then hey...

maybe the euro pro dudes are doing it because they get paid to... oh... wait? 

don't get my argument? tough... seems pretty sound from looking at all the not rotten and almost rotten (gary you reading this?) tires...

ya ever see a set of old conti mt bike tires with the cross hatching? Ifn ya had aquasealed them bad boys on a regular basis they wouldn't have done that... tubulars - same thing...

meh...

why bother...

and Jerry... Bless you... i guess allergies are back?


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## myette10 (Jul 20, 2003)

I hit my FMBs with aqua seal and the glossy finish did not hold up to the mud in portland. The brake dust mixed with mud and water and got underneath the sealant and stained up the casing pretty bad. 

However...

Other than the staining the casing is much more protected than it once was.

If any of you dugast/FMB types knows of a good way to apply the aquaseal so that it is truly sealed from rim edge to tread... I'd love to hear it. I put it on think and got a fair amount on the rim but still developed little breaks where the gooey mess got underneath.


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## jmkimmel (Jul 13, 2007)

Digging up an oldish thread here, but....

In looking up specs for my Grifo's, I see that they're not cotton after all - they're polyester. Is there any reason, then, to seal them up? Presumably, the 'organic acids' that break down or rot cotton casings aren't going to do much to polyester fibers.


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## lithuania (Dec 22, 2007)

myette10 said:


> I hit my FMBs with aqua seal and the glossy finish did not hold up to the mud in portland. The brake dust mixed with mud and water and got underneath the sealant and stained up the casing pretty bad.
> 
> However...
> 
> ...


Since you got the stuff on the rims im assuming you applied it after the tires were mounted? Perhaps you would get a better seal if you apply it with the tire off the rim.

Ive never used this stuff before but I am going to be helping out a buddy glue some SETA grifos in a couple day so I think we better use this stuff.


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## thighmaster (Feb 2, 2006)

Just got a set of used tires with Aquaseal and it was peeling here and there so I decided to remove (rubbing my thumb raw) and it peeled off OK. I weighed the tire before and after, and the stuff weighed about 5-10g total. It was a nice coat too, so once cured this stuff weighs about nothing. 

McNett packages this stuff for a multitude of tent seam repair companies and the cheapy version at your local camping store is the same as Aquaseal.


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## dudad (Oct 15, 2008)

FYI- I've been using seamgrip for years to repair small cuts and punctures on my road clinchers. Works great and holds up even as the tread starts to wear.

Tip: store unused tube in the freezer in a ziplock bag, and thaw before use. It will last forever and won't dry out.


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## slideeslide (Feb 1, 2007)

jmkimmel said:


> Digging up an oldish thread here, but....
> 
> In looking up specs for my Grifo's, I see that they're not cotton after all - they're polyester. Is there any reason, then, to seal them up? Presumably, the 'organic acids' that break down or rot cotton casings aren't going to do much to polyester fibers.


The sealant does keep the sidewalls clean. The Grifos I have that I used another product(didnt work) has left the sidewalls all nasty looking and mud stained. Yes, it is all about the looks. I would imagine there is a small amount of scuff protection as well.

Does it hurt to do? Nope


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

gravedig... but is this stuff worth using on high end track tyres like a vittoria evo pista or dugast to keep the sidewalls in good shape even though they are strictly indoors?


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*new Grifos*



filtersweep said:


> Um, I get that. You didn't answer my question: *What is the purpose?* What makes cross tires so "special" that they need this treatment.


and some FMBs now come pre treated
otherwise the Aquaseal protects the sidewalls from all kinds of minor abuse


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*really not needed*



alexb618 said:


> gravedig... but is this stuff worth using on high end track tyres like a vittoria evo pista or dugast to keep the sidewalls in good shape even though they are strictly indoors?


it wouldn't hurt but track tires never see the same abuse that cx tires do. Indoor tracks even less


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

thanks, ill try it on one set of tyres and see how it goes, the evo pista sidewalls start to look a bit ratty from transport/storage after a while


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

job done, 1 tube for both sides of one tyre

the excess on the rim comes off easily with your finger or if you dont want to get a blister you can use a normal pencil eraser to get it off


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