# Campy Record vs. Dura Ace 10



## pakratt99 (Feb 19, 2004)

So I've been a lurker here for a while now and have learned quite a bit from reading others posts. I am a 21 year old male of about 140lbs 5' 9" and have been on a road bike for a bit over a year now. I currentley attend Clarkson University which means I am a poor college student which will be important later on in my discussion. I used to race xc mountain bikes and then that got old as my friends took up other persuits. I have since converted to road bike as I enjoy it more on a solo basis and I have met a bunch of people with whom I now ride. 

I started off with a Kona Haole at the beginning of last year which was full 105 then upgraded to a Specialized Allez Comp which was full Ultegra. I have now pretty much figured out what I like and am going to build up a Cinelli Starship but am at a loss for what to do with componentry. I really like the Carbon Record 10spd stuff but also like the new Dura Ace 10. I have never ridden a campy equipped bike but have always heard their the best but I'm not really sure. 

I know that campy seems to have a cult following but it sometimes seems to be more of an "I'm better than you because I have campy and you don't" sort of following. I don't really care about ego's or which is old school and cool or better just because its Italian. I am really concerned with functionality and a little bit of style. I will give it up that the Carbon Record does look better and I do also realize that their is a price gap between it and the Dura Ace 10. But if price wasn't a concern which way would people go for functionality and durability. I would really like to hear some real world ideas and not ego's coming through. If someone who was on both which were properley set up and could give me an honest opinion of each and compare the benefits of either it would be great  .


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

I currently own bikes with Record, DA9 and Chorus.

I prefer Campy for two very simple reasons - 1-I like the thumb shifters and 2-I prefer the hidden cable routing. Real world reasons.

I don't dislike my DA9 and I will not replace it merely to have Campy on those bikes. The only reason I would ever build another DA bike would be to try out DA10. 

Chorus has always been my overall favorite, mainly because I preferred the look and feel of the alloy levers. Now that they're gone, it's a toss up. If I'm building a "dream" bike, maybe I'll use Record, if I'm building a "regular" bike, I will use Chorus. Dream bikes are few and far between though.

I would not even consider buying below these three, simply because I am a snob and anything less than the top keeps me awake at night.


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## 10kman (Nov 20, 2002)

*Go shimano......*

Like you said, it's more of a "look at me, i have campy" cult, rather than a "this is so dang much better that i can't believe it" cult. 

Shimano works just fine, even though I hate shimano with a passion, I try to build up my MTB's with little/no shimano parts (usually cassettes ONLY). Their road stuff is fine, it's smooth, it'll last a heck of a long time, and since you are a poor college student, it's cheaper.

I use shimano on my roadie bikes, it's just more cost effective. If I had disposable income (ie - i could buy a house a day and not care), maybe i'd try the campy stuff. 

Take the money you save from using DA rather than Record and get a nice handlebar or some nice sidi shoes, something like that. You'll be happier.


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## Bonked (Nov 11, 2002)

personally, they are both great groups that function extremely well but, if you are even a little concerned about style, the choice is obvious...da may work well, but it just doesn't look good hanging on a frame! if you are going for function, it is probably a toss-up and will mainly be determined by which shifting you prefer. if you are going for style...campy all the way. especially on an italian frame...

one other important difference that may or may not be critical, but you can shift across multiple cogs with one motion with campy but not shimano. i.e. to go from biggest cog to littlest cog with campy is one (maybe two) motions, while with shimano it is 9.

also, are you going to be racing? if so, you might want to consider the cost of crashing your dream bike!

good luck!


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## Bocephus Jones (Feb 3, 2004)

pakratt99 said:


> So I've been a lurker here for a while now and have learned quite a bit from reading others posts. I am a 21 year old male of about 140lbs 5' 9" and have been on a road bike for a bit over a year now. I currentley attend Clarkson University which means I am a poor college student which will be important later on in my discussion. I used to race xc mountain bikes and then that got old as my friends took up other persuits. I have since converted to road bike as I enjoy it more on a solo basis and I have met a bunch of people with whom I now ride.
> 
> I started off with a Kona Haole at the beginning of last year which was full 105 then upgraded to a Specialized Allez Comp which was full Ultegra. I have now pretty much figured out what I like and am going to build up a Cinelli Starship but am at a loss for what to do with componentry. I really like the Carbon Record 10spd stuff but also like the new Dura Ace 10. I have never ridden a campy equipped bike but have always heard their the best but I'm not really sure.
> 
> I know that campy seems to have a cult following but it sometimes seems to be more of an "I'm better than you because I have campy and you don't" sort of following. I don't really care about ego's or which is old school and cool or better just because its Italian. I am really concerned with functionality and a little bit of style. I will give it up that the Carbon Record does look better and I do also realize that their is a price gap between it and the Dura Ace 10. But if price wasn't a concern which way would people go for functionality and durability. I would really like to hear some real world ideas and not ego's coming through. If someone who was on both which were properley set up and could give me an honest opinion of each and compare the benefits of either it would be great  .


My opinion? A college student should save his $ and get something a little lower on the food chain than D/A or Record. Both are way overkill and only justifiable to those with lots of discretionary income or a need to have the "best". That said...Campy would be my choice for sure. I have Chorus 10 now and it has been great.


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## bsdc (Feb 15, 2002)

*Campy Rules!*

Function: That's a matter of opinion, so here's mine. I'm a recent Campy convert. I was riding Dura-Ace and liked it, but I wasn't comfortable riding on the hoods. I test rode a Campy bike and the hoods fit like a glove. I don't like the thumb shifters quite as well. I do like the crisp shifting. The Campy brakes seem stronger too. I recently got back on my DA bike to do a side by side comparison. The DA shifting and breaking seemed soft, vague, and squishy to me. That completed my conversion. They both function well. I just like the feel of Campy better. 

Durability: You're at the top of the line from both manufacturers. The difference between the two is small.


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## bsdc (Feb 15, 2002)

Bocephus Jones said:


> My opinion? A college student should save his $ and get something a little lower on the food chain than D/A or Record. Both are way overkill and only justifiable to those with lots of discretionary income or a need to have the "best". That said...Campy would be my choice for sure. I have Chorus 10 now and it has been great.


I figured the guy couldn't be that poor if he was considering the top of the line. But you are right. I make a pretty good income and I ride 2003 Chorus. I just couldn't see paying the premium for Record. For that matter, Centaur would have been fine. And now with the 2004 Chorus, you can get the carbon look for less.


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## Eric_H (Feb 5, 2004)

*When I was a student....*

....I could not have afforded Record or D/A  . My first road bike (as a university student) was a 1993 Specialized Allez with 105 downtube shifters. 

I am just switching over from D/A 9spd to Chorus/Record 10spd. One bike is new and just getting built, and my other bike is getting Campy as well. Why am I switching? After 10 years of Shimano bikes I decided to try something new, and I managed to get a good stock of cheap Campy 2003 stuff in the fall.

I personally don't think you can go wrong with either group. They are both pro-level and the best money can buy. One thing I have learned in my time with Shimano is never to buy a group in the first year of production, as they always have at least one part that is problematic and gets a running revision. With D/A 9spd it was pretty solid, though they did make running changes to the crank, the chain, the cassette and the shifters. They never did address the BB problem, but most people I know who actually rode in the real world (ie. rain) used Ultegra. Similar boo-boos and running changes have happened with the release of Ultegra and XTR.

That is not to say Campy has been perfect. Campy tends to evolve their groups over time, whereas Shimano will completely redo the group and then keep it the same for 6-7 years with small changes. D/A 7400 (8spd with STI) was produced for 6 years, D/A 7700 (9spd) was produced for 7 years. One disadvantage to the constant evolution of Campy is the backwards compatibility. 8spd hubs cannot do 9/10 spds, pre-2001 9spd is different than the current 9spd and so on. Not having a long history with it, I cannot speak for all the changes that have rendered previous parts obsolete. With Shimano a new group may obsolete a few items, but in general it will stay current for quite a few years.

One important thing to consider is the price. The Euro is very strong right now versus the US dollar, so Campy parts pricing is on the rise. Where it stops, who knows? Shimano pricing will probably stay a bit more stable.


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## slide (May 22, 2002)

Can't go wrong with either group IMO. I've always like Campy better. I think the shifters are a more pleasing shape and they feel a lot better and more positive the Shimano. Shimano has always felt vague to me. But, with new DA Shimano is way ahead of Campy in the crank/BB department and I think that is deffinetly worth something. Also the new Shimano shifters have much better/crsiper shifting feel then the old ones did, it almost feels as good as Campy. 

I'm a Campy fan but I'm riding Ultegra now and am pretty happy on it. I've also learned from friends that Campy can be expensive to repair. One guy had to replace bearings and cones in both his hubs. $70 wholesale for just those parts!!! That's a lot for bearings and cones. Now is seems Campy stuff is getting even more expensive with the current world economic situation.

If it were me, I'd be tempted to get Campy because of the style and history behind it all. From a pure performance standpoint I think DA 10 currently has the edge and is probably a little cheaper still.


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## palewin (Mar 12, 2003)

*Real differences are ergonomics and availability*

Both DA & Record are equally reliable and function equally well. First, there is, as you noted, a price difference because the $ is weaker versus the Euro than it is against the Yen. Second, and I think most important, is how the brake/shift levers feel to you. As one who races (and therefore spends time down in the drops) I can shift the DA more easily from the drops, I had difficulty with the Campy thumb-shifters from that position. You should try it yourself and see which you like more. Lastly, in the U.S. at least, Shimano parts are usually a bit easier to find in smaller shops than Campy parts because they have a wider distribution network. I said "usually" because Shimano underestimated demand, and is having short-term supply problems with a lot of components. An earlier post said that Shimano doesn't let you shift multiple gears with a single movement - at least for the DA10 that is incorrect, a larger movement of the levers gives you a 3-sprocket jump. A last point sometimes mentioned is that Campy levers can be rebuilt, while Shimano cannot. Prior to upgrading to DA10, I had over 30K miles on my Ultegra shifters, without needing a rebuild, so I'm not sure how significant that feature is to you.


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

It's the same as the current DA. It can shift multiple gears down but still only one gear at a time up. Campy shifts multiple gears both ways.


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## xcmntgeek (Aug 24, 2002)

*2004 DA all the way*

I just got the 2004 DA and I am very convinced of it's cred. The shifters are slightly better than the previous model (more comfy). But, the crowning achievement of the new groupo is the cranks. They are noticably stiffer- a real jewel. That's my opinion, fwiw.


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## werdna (Feb 6, 2004)

and why is crank stiffness so important?



xcmntgeek said:


> I just got the 2004 DA and I am very convinced of it's cred. The shifters are slightly better than the previous model (more comfy). But, the crowning achievement of the new groupo is the cranks. They are noticably stiffer- a real jewel. That's my opinion, fwiw.


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## pakratt99 (Feb 19, 2004)

*Thanks*

Well I now might be more confused than I was before, but thats ok  . Because everyone keeps asking how as a poor college student I might get the cash for some big money components, I am going for IT and did a bunch of website design and setup for a local bike shop. For this he is going to give me a full group at a very reasonable price, (like $500 for DA-10 or about $600 for the Record Carbon). So price isn't really a big issue and I want something that will last. I am looking at high end components because as someone before noted, I'm one of thoes people who dosen't sleep at night unless he has the best. The only problem I run into is that I don't know anyone with campy setup and I kind of worry because I have small hands and I have heard that in the drops the campy levers can be hard to reach.


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## FrankDL (Oct 8, 2003)

*'04 Da 10!*

I got an '04 TREK 5900 ultralight for xmas/bday and love the Shimano DA10. I took two test rides with a LOOK equiped with Campy, and while it was a good ride and you can fine tune the shifting, I still like the Shimano 10 better. I guess if it's good enough for Lance and 5 tour wins, it's good enough for me! Just my $.02 worth. 

Best,
Frank


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

I suggest you take a test ride on both. Personally, I can't stand the Shimano hoods and the new ones are worst for me. The shifting feel is really good however. I got '03 XTR on my MTB of which DA10 is technology based on. Shifts are flawless, smoother than Record, but not quite as quick, and less direct.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*you mean old 9-speed DuraAce???*

Take the money you save from using DA rather than Record and get a nice handlebar or some nice sidi shoes, something like that. You'll be happier.[/QUOTE]


New DuraAce 10 costs more than Campy Record 10 at the present time. 

You also forget that Campy offers the excellent Chorus 10-speed group which is similar in price to the DA 9-speed. A much better value IMO. The 10-speed groups are current technology. It won't be long before DA 9 shifters won't be readily available. Then you're stuck with outdated stuff that you can't get fixed. You won't have that problem with Campy. Even the oldest 9-speed ergo levers can be cheaply converted to 10-speed and overhauled at the same time. Try repairing a broken Shimano shifter.


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## 10kman (Nov 20, 2002)

I'm looking at NOT RETAIL prices, IE - finding a private dealer and buying. Shimano DA is way cheaper even on ebay than the new Record stuff. 

I know this because i'm in the midst of a rebuild, and have been researching heavily for the best prices.


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## xcmntgeek (Aug 24, 2002)

werdna said:


> and why is crank stiffness so important?


-Yea, yea, yea this argument has been around (and I'm sure it will keep circling and hit someone again). Although, I don't see how the stiffness can be a problem. Here's my take:

While I was waiting for my new Orbea to come in I rode my dad's CAAD 7 w/full 2003 DA so I got the chance to personally try the two crank systems back to back (actually in one day- morning ride on the C-dale and afternoon ride on the Orbea). All I know is that the new cranks felt noticably stiffer and smoother. I would stand out of a corner, or in a 56kph sprint and they would go. It gave you a very connected feeling.

The bikes are quite similar as well so I don't think there is much of a variable there (both full Al, same size).

I like Campy and I've had the opportunity to race on it, but I like Shimano more. When I raced on Campy (granted it was only for a few crits on a borrowed bike), I didn't like how you couldn't micro adjust the brakes as you rode or the shifting system- IMO shimano is easier to shift from both the drops and the hoods.

One last thing is that I disn't like having to release my thumbs grip on the bar to shift the inside lever and I would hate to do so in a crit. It's all personal preferance, but the Shimano is definitly some sweet stuff.


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## xcmntgeek (Aug 24, 2002)

. "It won't be long before DA 9 shifters won't be readily available"

How is that so? It's still possible to get 8speed XTR stuff fairly easily and 8speed DA. Plus, a lot of people don't have the components on their biek long enough for that to matter.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*post the source...*

We're all looking for the best prices. What is a "private dealer" ? If you have a source for prices lower than places like wisecyclebuys.com, txcyclesport.com or totalcycling.com, post it so others can benefit.


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

I think you're not going fast enough. Petacchi when on Shimano did okay. Last year he switched to Campy and blew everyone away.



xcmntgeek said:


> -Yea, yea, yea this argument has been around (and I'm sure it will keep circling and hit someone again). Although, I don't see how the stiffness can be a problem. Here's my take:
> 
> While I was waiting for my new Orbea to come in I rode my dad's CAAD 7 w/full 2003 DA so I got the chance to personally try the two crank systems back to back (actually in one day- morning ride on the C-dale and afternoon ride on the Orbea). All I know is that the new cranks felt noticably stiffer and smoother. I would stand out of a corner, or in a 56kph sprint and they would go. It gave you a very connected feeling.
> 
> ...


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*micro adjusting brakes???*

What do you mean by micro adjusting the brakes? Both brands have cable adjusters on the calipers. Hopefully you're not talking about the release lever, it's not made for adjusting the brakes.

Also, why would anyone need to adjust the brakes while riding? You're supposed to get that done before you ride.


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## benInMA (Jan 22, 2004)

divve said:


> I think you're not going fast enough. Petacchi when on Shimano did okay. Last year he switched to Campy and blew everyone away.


That's a joke right?

As if components matter at all. He could have stuck Tiagra on the bike and have done fine.

Ben


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## Bonked (Nov 11, 2002)

how do you know the difference in stiffness isn't the frames?


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## Bonked (Nov 11, 2002)

record carbon (is that with the carbon or alloy cranks?) for $600 and you're waffling??? hell, give me your address, i'll send you a check and you send me the group!


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## Bonked (Nov 11, 2002)

i'll admit it...i'm a campy guy. but i really do think that both groups are great and realize that some people will like shimano and others campy...fine...no problem. however, the whole issue of price is killing me! is this just shimano lovers with their heads stuck in the sand? current prices from excelsports.com: dura-ace 10 $1586.05, record 10 $1450. and that's <i>without</i> a headset for dura-ace.

furthermore, what i don't get is that one of the major arguements from the shimano camp has been how dura-ace is just as good as record for a few hundred less. then shimano goes out and raises the cost of the group by 50%, to where it is <i>more</i> than record and no one complains at all! i can guarantee you that i love campy, but if record took a one year leap from $1350 to $2100, i'd be looking for options!

again, shimano is great stuff (you can't really tell me that half the pro teams would use it if it sucked), but i also think that you have to be honest. record is now the less expensive of the two groups!

http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?...ce+7800+Group&vendorCode=SHIM&major=1&minor=5

http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?...rd+Group+2004&vendorCode=CAMP&major=1&minor=5


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

the scales have tipped!!

Comparing dura ace 9-speed to to record 10. It seemed like a fairly even match. It seemed to boil down to which shifting style you liked (using thumbs or not) and which hoods shape you preferred. Campy's had an edge with 10 speed and the carbon-factor!

I've been using dura ace 9-speed regularly for a couple of years and have used record 10 and chorus on occasion.

Now here's my revelation. I've been using 2004 dura ace 10-speed for two weeks and am really impressed so far. The key is:
- cranks and bottom bracket - ugly as the cranks are, they are noticeably stiffer than dura ace 9-speed. The bike scoots forward faster. When you stomp on the pedals and take up chain slack or catch up to the wheels, the thud or engagement is incredibly solid. When you stand up on the big ring, there is no chain to front der rub caused by flex.

- shifting - this is the other revelation! The feel is quite different from dura ace 9. When pushing the small lever (higher gear on the rear cog), you feel an initial resistance then it fires then the lever sinks in. It's such a satisfying trigger feel. Such a quality feel. Not to knock campy but the thumb buttons I've tried are soooo stiff and jerky. I heard it breaks in nicely but the out of the box comparison is just night and day.

My two cents. Braking is supposedly better too but mine are not even seated in yet to analyze.

So dura ace 10... I'm thoroughly impressed and now want a new bike built around it!!

francois


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

The German Tour tested the new DA cranks as being no stiffer than DA9. I don't know whether they're right or wrong but it's a moot point in my opinion.

As for prices, in Germany it can be bought for 999 Euros. Deduct the 16% sales tax and convert to Dollars would make it about $1095 for the group.

http://www.bike-discount.de


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## xcmntgeek (Aug 24, 2002)

divve said:


> I think you're not going fast enough. Petacchi when on Shimano did okay. Last year he switched to Campy and blew everyone away.



Hey, maybe that's what I've been missing! Gee golly, I'll hop right on Campy tommorrow and get that two upgrade. I can't wait.

As far as the brakes... You ever hit a pothole in a race and knocked a wheel out of true? I have, and yes I used the lever on the side of the brake to adjust it so that the wheel wasn't rubbing. Maybe I'm going to hell now, but so be it. What's wrong with using them this way? It's a lot better than trying to turn a barrel adjuster.


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

<IMG SRC="https://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/feb04/lucca04/stage1/sirotti/5.jpg">

Alessandro Petacchi (Campagnolo) takes the first duel of the season against Mario Cipollin (Shimano).


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

xcmntgeek said:


> As far as the brakes... You ever hit a pothole in a race and knocked a wheel out of true? I have, and yes I used the lever on the side of the brake to adjust it so that the wheel wasn't rubbing. Maybe I'm going to hell now, but so be it. What's wrong with using them this way? It's a lot better than trying to turn a barrel adjuster.


Because if it's not locked down all the way it may flip up during braking....now that's something which would actually make you faster. Campy has a quick release at the lever blade and it doesn't effect ultimate braking power.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

divve said:


> The German Tour tested the new DA cranks as being no stiffer than DA9. I don't know whether they're right or wrong but it's a moot point in my opinion.
> http://www.bike-discount.de



Who tested it??? Seriously, I'd like to check it out if you can forward the source of info.

Like I said, it's contrary to what I'm experiencing and I just can't see they're the same stiffness given dramatic differences in design in construction.

As far as stiffness being a moot point for cranks. More explanation please. From what I've learned and experienced, crank stiffness is probably the most important factor in cranks/bbs. Power lost to crank flex is power lost.

francois


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

These guys tested them: http://www.tour-magazin.de

Moot as in the flex in your legs, frame, wheels, tires are an order of magnitude times greater than any quality crank from a mainstream manufacturer. There's no way you're going to improve by using stiffer cranks. What you're feeling can be contributed many factors including things as simple as a smooth running chain and lighter tires. I have to admit though that nothing shifts up front as well as Shimano.


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## Bonked (Nov 11, 2002)

and the second!


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## BenR (Dec 14, 2001)

*student with chorus here...*

I too am a college student who wanted to do things right and took a big leap to Chorus 10 3 years ago after running my old RX100/105 bike into the ground. Despite being poor, I can justify the high end gruppo based on my annual mileage. You get what you pay for and it is nice to have relatively-light parts that perform flawlessly and last a long time.

I really like the feel of the Chorus shifters and they are mechanically identical to Record. But if I were you, I'd go with DA 10 for $500 unless you really like ergolevers like me. Fragile Record carbon fiber parts aren't worth $100 more. The Shimano technology, particularly in the crank and bb, is superior and the overall group feels more solid than 9 speed, much like the old dura ace 8 speed did.

The big thing you need to consider is the cost of replacement parts. I don't know what shimano 10 speed prices are, but mail order prices for my chorus chain, cassette, and bb are ridiculous, and I probably would have gone with DA 9 speed 3 years ago if I knew they were going to get this high. Also, if you're racing, everyone has shimano spare wheels but you might be SOL if you have a flat or mechanical with campy. You really can't go wrong with either group though so I'd do what your heart says and be happy. Enjoy.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*how to shorten the reach of campy brake levers..*

It not too difficult to reduce the reach of Campy brake levers. In a nutshell, all you do is place a small amount of epoxy on the ergo lever body, behind the quick release pin on the brake lever. This prevents the lever from reaching the fully open position. The reach can be reduced by 12-15mm, which is quite a bit.

I've modified several pairs. The modification can also be reversed if you don't like it. The epoxy does not adhere perfectly, so it can be removed by carefully prying on it with an Xacto knife and perhaps a touch-up with fine sandpaper.


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## pakratt99 (Feb 19, 2004)

*http://www.hbike.com*



C-40 said:


> We're all looking for the best prices. What is a "private dealer" ? If you have a source for prices lower than places like wisecyclebuys.com, txcyclesport.com or totalcycling.com, post it so others can benefit.



I didn't want to get yelled at for posting a link but considering you asked I will post one now. The website is http://www.hbike.com and just so you know the website isn't fully functioning yet. The owner's name is Peter and I met him through a local cycling club. He is located in Bennington VT and we are currentley in the processe of getting his website fully up and running and it will probably be anouther month before that happens. He is giving me the parts below his cost becaue of me doing the website work for him. If you want a price on something just drop him an email and he will get back to you. Just for comparison's sake I know that the DA 9 group is about $729, DA10 $1629, and Topolino's or Mavic Ksyrium SSC SL's are both about $629. Don't quote me on the prices as I am pulling them out of memory but his prices are way below anything I have seen on the net and will normally beat what you can find on ebay. A lot of his prices are so low that he cannot post them on the website because of legal issues with the manufacturers (They all price Fix). But again give him an email and see what he can do for you and if you want me to get in touch with him because he is local just PM me!!!


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## wtuttle_1970 (Mar 19, 2004)

*My Campy vs. Shimano experience*

I've used both Campy and Shimano components. Here's my 2 cents. I prefer Campy for a few reasons. One, I like the shifters a lot better. Your brake lever does not move side to side. You can shift from you biggest cog to your smallest in one motion. And they just feel better to me. Two, the shifts feel more solid. There is a solid "thunk" sound when you go to a smaller cog. I like that. 

That being said, Shimano does have its advantages. The biggest one being if you are a racer and you break a wheel during a race, if you have Campy good luck finding a replacement. (Unless you brought your own.) Just about everyone used Shimano, so finding replacement parts is pretty easy. It's not an issue for me because I just ride for fun.


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## russw19 (Nov 27, 2002)

C-40 said:


> We're all looking for the best prices. What is a "private dealer" ? If you have a source for prices lower than places like wisecyclebuys.com, txcyclesport.com or totalcycling.com, post it so others can benefit.



Hey C-40, for someone like you, who I have been reading great and helpful posts from for a long time now, I can get you stuff cheaper than wisecycles.... It takes me a little longer to get it because I have to order it to me and then turn around and ship it to you, but for you and a few other RBR members, I have offered to do this, but very few have taken me up on the offer. But it is a standing offer. So if you need something, but don't need it the next day and want to get it cheap, let me know. Sometimes I can get a phenomenal deal, other times not, but I will at least give you a straight up and honest price quote.

Russ


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## buffedupboy (Feb 6, 2003)

*Here are other reasons*

There are some simple differences that people have failed to mention so far. 

On Campy, if you crash and your handlebar goes down first, the brifter will snap. Shimano levers will bend as you can shift them, campy levers are rigid. However, having said that, campy levers are sold separatedly, shimano is not.

Shimano shifter cables are rather cumbersome when you want to mount your aero bars for a TT, but you can't rest your helmet on the cables if you have campy, but then why are you not wearing your helmet anyways?

Shimano levers tend to corrode due to perspiration. and the top cap has a funny way of falling off.Campy record shifter levers are plastic.

Shimano brifter hoods are larger and some people find that more comfortable. You seem to be able to position the lever anywhere on the bars (as they look ugly anyways), you can only position your campy in one location (unless you want it to look like shimano= ugly). Shimano hoods are extended further out compared to campy. The hoods are made of a more supple material.

When you are in the drops sprinting and you need to shift down, you don't have to release your grip on the handlebars when you are thumb shifting on campy.

There are multiple trims on campy front D, again, why will you need to trim any if it is set up correctly?

DA cables are silver, campy are black ( if that mattered to you).

I think DA10sp is lighter than campy record 10sp ( correct me if I'm wrong).

Everything else has been covered. I have both, they all work fine. I prefer campy for the look. I don't care if DA10sp cranks are stiffer, I'll get myself FSA cranks. I don't care that the new BB is externalised (supposed to be more durable), I'll get Truvatives. I however, won't go buying Nokon cables to route my Shimanos!

Oh, I find it how some people think that if you ride Shimano, you are Lance Armstrong and if you ride Campy you are Petacchi. 

Ciao,
Sean


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## ElDuderino (Feb 21, 2004)

*You're Wrong*



buffedupboy said:


> I think DA10sp is lighter than campy record 10sp ( correct me if I'm wrong).


Check out the components section of the new velonews buyers guide. Almost every part of the record carbon group are lighter (exceptions are the rear deraileur, 4grams heavier, and the crankset/bottom bracket). The Campagnolo group weighs almost 200 grams LESS (half a pound!) than the shimano equivalent.


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## Mike Prince (Jan 30, 2004)

*My 2 Cents...*

Both groups are good, no doubt. Having said that, the folks here have done a good job identifying most of the key differences between the groups. I'll add another difference that I would say is pretty significant:

Campy has much mor flexible gearing.

You can do a double or triple, and go all the way up to a 29 cog if that's what you need. To me, Campy's solution provides much more real-life difference. With Dura-Ace 10, you get a 'filler' cog in the middle of the cassette - Campy gives you the option of taking that extra gear in a much more practical place - on the end of the gear spectrum. Maybe a pro racer appereciates having a 16t cog, but to most of us, I'd think an extra climbing gear is a better application of the 'more speeds is better' craze.

If I was building a new bike, I would probably go with the Campy 10 as there's motivation to get current technology on a new build and I think Campy's execution of the 10 speed concept is better if the ergonomice of their brake levers agrees with you. I have DA 9 on my geared bike now and I can't see any motivation to 'upgrade' to the 10 speed version, especially at the astronomical costs that Shimano feels justified to charge.

I agree with the posts above that measuring bb/crank flex is a bit silly. Your frame and rear wheel will flex long before the crankarm/bb combination does. If I had the 'chance of a lifetime' to get DA10 or Record 10 at the prices you are claiming, I'd get Chorus 10 for even less and apply the savings to something far less superficial than the Campy vs. Shimano debate. Buy some nice shorts or shoes - you'll feel that on every ride, unlike the components, which will run reliably and last a long time whether they are Shimano or Campagnolo.


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## tube_ee (Aug 25, 2003)

*Campy and alloy levers*



terry b said:


> I currently own bikes with Record, DA9 and Chorus.
> 
> I prefer Campy for two very simple reasons - 1-I like the thumb shifters and 2-I prefer the hidden cable routing. Real world reasons.
> 
> ...


Agreed, the aluminum levers are prettier. One solution would be to use Veloce lever blades in you Chorus or Record bodies. THis brings up another advantage of Campy. Rebuildable levers. After a crash, replacing a lever blade hurts less than replacing a $200 brifter.

--Shanon, click-free on Campy, Shimano, and Suntour, in
San Diego, CA


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