# Listening to the riders



## George M (Sep 25, 2008)

With bicycles models coming and going, I was wondering if Look doe's like Trek and Specialized and listen to what the riders want. I've read a lot about Trek and Specialized doing that, but I'm not to sure that Look doe's that. Any input would be appreciated.

The reason I ask, is because I took a Trek 5.2 out for a ride and what a nice bike. Talking to the sales person, he said the bike was build on what riders wanted. That they went by customers input and they came up with a beautiful, nice riding bike.:thumbsup:


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## justin. (Jul 18, 2011)

Our engineers absolutely rely on rider feedback for product development. Its a global collaborative effort, which is huge, but the results are worth while. Most manufacturers will rely on customer feedback to make sure they are delivering what is wanted.


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## George M (Sep 25, 2008)

Thanks justin, I was wondering if they all do that. It would make since to me, but I thought I would ask anyhow.


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## Ahillock (Apr 16, 2011)

justin. said:


> Our engineers absolutely rely on rider feedback for product development. Its a global collaborative effort, which is huge, but the results are worth while. Most manufacturers will rely on customer feedback to make sure they are delivering what is wanted.


Bring back the lugged frames?


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

> Our engineers absolutely rely on rider feedback for product development. Its a global collaborative effort, which is huge, but the results are worth while. Most manufacturers will rely on customer feedback to make sure they are delivering what is wanted.


This is surprising to read. Look seems so out of touch with it's customers, especially here in the US. Unless of course your in CA. 
Also, considering that all the dealers here in Portland, OR. have stopped carrying Look. I have to go to Seattle to find a dealer. Not to mention Portland has been voted the best place for cycling. But I've said all this before. Look is missing the boat here..

Even Time, Pinarello and Colnago are represented here by multiple stores. Dealers have stated to me, that they get very little support from Look as a company.

Justin, if you need a good Rep. for the PNW, let me know.


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## justin. (Jul 18, 2011)

maximum7 said:


> This is surprising to read. Look seems so out of touch with it's customers, especially here in the US. Unless of course your in CA.
> Also, considering that all the dealers here in Portland, OR. have stopped carrying Look. I have to go to Seattle to find a dealer. Not to mention Portland has been voted the best place for cycling. But I've said all this before. Look is missing the boat here..
> 
> Even Time, Pinarello and Colnago are represented here by multiple stores. Dealers have stated to me, that they get very little support from Look as a company.
> ...


We have some new reps up in your area, and we are rebuilding dealer relationships and brand awareness little by little up there. Its an uphill battle, but we'll get there. I believe CyclePath has been setting up a few 695's in PTown.


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## justin. (Jul 18, 2011)

Ahillock said:


> Bring back the lugged frames?


Have you tried a 695 yet?


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## Rickyracer (Sep 28, 2006)

maximum7 said:


> This is surprising to read. Look seems so out of touch with it's customers, especially here in the US. Unless of course your in CA.
> Also, considering that all the dealers here in Portland, OR. have stopped carrying Look. I have to go to Seattle to find a dealer. Not to mention Portland has been voted the best place for cycling. But I've said all this before. Look is missing the boat here..
> 
> Even Time, Pinarello and Colnago are represented here by multiple stores. Dealers have stated to me, that they get very little support from Look as a company.
> ...


Their representation is even worse in the Southeast, but it's understandable. Not sure I'd put a lot of effort into such a small market. Only dealer in central Alabama WAS Birmingham Bicycle Company. I say 'was' because they have zero LOOKs on their racks. It's a shame really. I love to own and ride my 586.

Justin glad you're here keeping tabs on us. Chas did a remarkable job. I hope the same for you.


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

> I believe CyclePath has been setting up a few 695's in PTown.


I stopped in there last weekend. Asked about a 566. They said they are not a stocking dealer, but could order possibly. 
Then the sales guy proceeded to wax on about Pinarello and Moots and how amazing they are...I told him he'd read too many Pinarello ads and that if I was over 55, I'd maybe consider a Moots..

I'll just order on line from some other store across the country like I always have to do...


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## jasjas (Dec 16, 2009)

As much as i love my Look bikes, as a company they dont seem to have any relationship with their customers.
they dont seem to respond to emails and there is no means to feedback when you buy a new bike.

But maybe with bikes as good as their current line up, perhaps listening to us lot would mess that up:idea:


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## George M (Sep 25, 2008)

This reminds me of Chrysler cars years ago, it only took them about 10 years to recover. It's a shame when you drop the ball, it takes years to recover. I like my Look, but I think it I were to buy another bike, I would be looking at something different.


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## justin. (Jul 18, 2011)

maximum7 said:


> I stopped in there last weekend. Asked about a 566. They said they are not a stocking dealer, but could order possibly.
> Then the sales guy proceeded to wax on about Pinarello and Moots and how amazing they are...I told him he'd read too many Pinarello ads and that if I was over 55, I'd maybe consider a Moots..
> 
> I'll just order on line from some other store across the country like I always have to do...


Stop by in there in a few weeks. You'll see some on the floor. Like I said, we are rebuilding relationships one shop at a time. We are excited that CyclePath is bringing LOOK back :thumbsup:


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## justin. (Jul 18, 2011)

jasjas said:


> As much as i love my Look bikes, as a company they dont seem to have any relationship with their customers.
> they dont seem to respond to emails and there is no means to feedback when you buy a new bike.





George M said:


> This reminds me of Chrysler cars years ago, it only took them about 10 years to recover. It's a shame when you drop the ball, it takes years to recover. I like my Look, but I think it I were to buy another bike, I would be looking at something different.


Ouch! Customer service is priority number one for LOOK Cycle USA. I'm sure its the same goal for every LOOK subsidiary and distributor.


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

George M said:


> This reminds me of Chrysler cars years ago, it only took them about 10 years to recover. It's a shame when you drop the ball, it takes years to recover. I like my Look, but I think it I were to buy another bike, I would be looking at something different.



I agree. If I was buying new I would not be looking at Look. But I would look at Look for a used frame or NOS. Why is it that everyone clamors about the 595 and 585? Cause they are two of the best ridding frames within the past decade. There is no frame currently, even 695, that interests me. If I wanted a cookie cutter carbon bike I would be looking at another brand.


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## justin. (Jul 18, 2011)

tranzformer said:


> I agree. If I was buying new I would not be looking at Look. But I would look at Look for a used frame or NOS. Why is it that everyone clamors about the 595 and 585? Cause they are two of the best ridding frames within the past decade. There is no frame currently, even 695, that interests me. If I wanted a cookie cutter carbon bike I would be looking at another brand.


What's cookie cutter about the 695? Absolutely nothing, that's what. I hate to say it, because I do like the 585 and 595, and they are well loved (really well loved) here on the forums, but they do not hold a candle to the ride of the 695. As I've recommended to other people here, if you are serious about a new bike, hit up your local LOOK dealer to arrange for us to send you a demo bike to try. One ride, and you'll know.


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

The 695 is most likely a fantastic bike. Unfortunately it has does look more cookie cutter than the Look bikes before it. Sure it has a lot of technology for better, (C-stem) or for worse (fickle crankset).
The 695 is prohibitively expensive for a lot of riders as well and is its biggest draw back. 
The 585 and 595 not hold a candle? Well they also weren't $6000.00 frame sets either, so that isn't a fair comment. 

The 585 and 595, were affordable and amazing and unique.
Lugged is simply a very amazing frame design that unfortunately has gone away due to cost cutting. (Gee I wonder how much of that urban ski clothing are they selling over there in France?)

I do know that Look did work some magic with the way the 566 rides, but they need to re-think their middle ground bike again and maybe add another offering, which sounds like something maybe in the works. 
Maybe Look will offer an anniversary edition of the 585, 595 some year. I'd expect your sales to hit the roof. 
Personally, my next bike will be a Time, but my heart will always be with Look.

Justin, 
Let me say this. 
I personally am not trying to be-little you or bash Look. I love Look. I love my 585 and I just bought a 566 for my wife. (course I had to order it from across the country). I got one of my buddies off a Pinarello onto a Look. My other buddies' wife came and test rode mine and she now has a 566. 
I am embarrassed to admit I have lost sleep over thinking about Look, and my bike. Very stupid, I know.
It's because of this "passion" or maybe derangement, that I challenge Look to be a better company and really go after the US market. 

I really appreciate your feed back here. I know you are very busy and you don't have to bother, but I am glad you are filling us in and trying to help us out. 
THANK YOU for that. IMHO you've easily filled Chas' shoes already.


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## twiggy73 (Jan 19, 2010)

maximum7 said:


> but they need to re-think their middle ground bike again and maybe add another offering, which sounds like something maybe in the works.
> 
> I have to say this statement is very true the 586 just doesnt stand out as the got to bike in the middle range on the market! i would much prefer my 585 or the 595 to fill this part of the range!
> 
> ...


any chance you can get Look cycle to like "the look bike club" on fb ???? 

Twiggy


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## slegros (Sep 22, 2009)

justin. said:


> What's cookie cutter about the 695? Absolutely nothing, that's what. I hate to say it, because I do like the 585 and 595, and they are well loved (really well loved) here on the forums, but they do not hold a candle to the ride of the 695. As I've recommended to other people here, if you are serious about a new bike, hit up your local LOOK dealer to arrange for us to send you a demo bike to try. One ride, and you'll know.


The problem IMO (and perhaps others will agree) is that Look over the years seems to go through phases where they start to try to integrate too much, and the bikes while sound in concept come across as gimmicky (kg186, 695 just to name two). 

I have ridden a 695, its excellent.... But you know what? IMO it would be even better if I could fit the crankset and stem of my choosing on it, and in the process it sold at a lower price-point minus the integrated crank and stem. Offer such a machine and my guess is you would hear very few here lamenting the loss of the 585 and 595.

Look has always been at its best as a brand IMO when they build straight forward no-nonsense race frames, and sadly the last examples of those seem right now to have been the 585, and the 595.....

Maybe my opinion doesn't matter much..... But I am a guy who has owned 4 look frames over the years, loves the brand, and can't see anything in the current lineup that I'd consider buying.......


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## justin. (Jul 18, 2011)

slegros said:


> I have ridden a 695, its excellent.... But you know what? IMO it would be even better if I could fit the crankset and stem of my choosing on it, and in the process it sold at a lower price-point minus the integrated crank and stem.


I know shops that do this. They don't like to, but its happened, and it will happen again. I can see spending the cash on a complete Super Record group and wanting to use the cranks (or Di2 cranks or SRM or whatever you fancy). No problems there as there are adapters for such an occasion. 

As for the stem, during Paris Roubaix, some Cofidis team riders swap the carbon CStem for an aluminum FSA stem to cut down on excessive crash carnage. So that's swappable too.

Yeah......soooo......there's that.


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## justin. (Jul 18, 2011)

maximum7 said:


> The 695 is prohibitively expensive for a lot of riders as well and is its biggest draw back. The 585 and 595 not hold a candle? Well they also weren't $6000.00 frame sets either, so that isn't a fair comment.


That's true. Fair enough.



maximum7 said:


> The 585 and 595, were affordable and amazing and unique.
> Lugged is simply a very amazing frame design that unfortunately has gone away due to cost cutting. (Gee I wonder how much of that urban ski clothing are they selling over there in France?)


Hey now, don't bring that into the mix. We have NOTHING to do with the clothing line. That's a different division of the company.




maximum7 said:


> I do know that Look did work some magic with the way the 566 rides, but they need to re-think their middle ground bike again and maybe add another offering, which sounds like something maybe in the works.


Stay tuned!



maximum7 said:


> Personally, my next bike will be a Time, but my heart will always be with Look.


Heritage! You know the story between the two companies right?




maximum7 said:


> I really appreciate your feed back here. I know you are very busy and you don't have to bother, but I am glad you are filling us in and trying to help us out.
> THANK YOU for that. IMHO you've easily filled Chas' shoes already.


I'm trying...:thumbsup:


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

> Heritage! You know the story between the two companies right?


No. Fill me in.


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## slegros (Sep 22, 2009)

justin. said:


> I know shops that do this. They don't like to, but its happened, and it will happen again. I can see spending the cash on a complete Super Record group and wanting to use the cranks (or Di2 cranks or SRM or whatever you fancy). No problems there as there are adapters for such an occasion.
> 
> As for the stem, during Paris Roubaix, some Cofidis team riders swap the carbon CStem for an aluminum FSA stem to cut down on excessive crash carnage. So that's swappable too.
> 
> Yeah......soooo......there's that.



Yeah there's that..... 

But then you're left with a half-ass modification, and out the cash for a crankset and c-stem you're never going to use.... Paying an additional $1000 or so for a c-stem and zed crank I never wanted in the first place just so I can say I'm riding a bastardized look? No thanks.........


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

slegros said:


> I have ridden a 695, its excellent....


I did too, and I would have bought one if Look hadn't screwed up the derailleur cables. 
Put them inside or put them outside, but not halfway between.


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## twiggy73 (Jan 19, 2010)

maximum7 said:


> No. Fill me in.


yes please tell! 

Twiggy


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## jasjas (Dec 16, 2009)

justin. said:


> Ouch! Customer service is priority number one for LOOK Cycle USA. I'm sure its the same goal for every LOOK subsidiary and distributor.


Maybe in the states it is and maybe else where too but LOOK france need to up their game, in this respect and have more of a direct relationship with their customers.
I can email SpeshUK and and if they cant answer, then i ll get an email from the USA - i know as this happened when i had a Tarmac.
Its simple things like not being able to buy the little black LOOK cable/frame protectors that come in the Frame cable kit for the 695 and LOOK France not bothering to answer an email 

The 585 may have been an "affordable" choice but the 595 rrp was nt far short of the 695 price, some dealers are discounting the 695 to below £3k in the UK, all 2012 stock, they def offer the 695 as a frame only option, crazy not too, they d shift loads more  like to ME !
The 586 range, unfortunately or not is associated with a more leisurely ride and not the cutting edge rep of the 695/585/595 and its this middle ground that LOOK needs to address, that and offer test ride centers in each market. 
Everyone i know who has a LOOK bike loves them and that msg needs to be out there far more than it is, test ride centers and a better rep on the customer relations front would do that.


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