# Is Landis in hiding?



## Zipp0 (Aug 19, 2008)

His twitter has disappeared:

http://twitter.com/therealfloydl

Is he going to go to France and face the music? Is Rock done for?


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Rock's not done, they had 'Here to stay' printed on their kits! 

As for Floyd, it wont change much if he's riding or not, he was back last year and how did he do in races? Pretty much the same as if he didn't race...


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## gamara (May 20, 2002)

Dan Gerous said:


> Rock's not done, they had 'Here to stay' printed on their kits!
> 
> As for Floyd, it wont change much if he's riding or not, he was back last year and how did he do in races? Pretty much the same as if he didn't race...


I think Rock is dead. They had plan A which didn't work out so they tried plan B & that was rejected. Its the end of the road unless they have a plan C. The writing is on the wall when Oscar Sevilla, Fast Freddy can't get a hold of Ball.

As for Floyd, the comments seem pretty harsh. The guy had a major operation. It takes time for an athlete to come back from that. How many years did it take Lemond before he came back to the top??

As for Floyd's situation, its a weird story. Totally messed up.


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## Seven Wonder (Oct 13, 2009)

He wasn't racing for Rock at Valley of the Sun. He was using an OUCH kit, driving an OUCH car, and wasn't riding for a team in the results. Kinda weird. He tanked the TT, took a 30 sec penalty in the RR, and didn't show up for Crit. He probably had a lot on his mind.


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## barracuckadile (Dec 16, 2006)

gamara said:


> I think Rock is dead. They had plan A which didn't work out so they tried plan B & that was rejected. Its the end of the road unless they have a plan C. The writing is on the wall when Oscar Sevilla, Fast Freddy can't get a hold of Ball.
> 
> As for Floyd, the comments seem pretty harsh. The guy had a major operation. It takes time for an athlete to come back from that. How many years did it take Lemond before he came back to the top??
> 
> As for Floyd's situation, its a weird story. Totally messed up.


Took Lemond 2 years (+ or - 6 months), I believe, including a bout with appendicitis. 

I agree that people shouldn't judge Floyd so harshly or with such an obvious double standard, but I also think that his problems now are more mental than physical. I am a fan of Floyd and hope, most of all, that he gets his life back together. We all deserve some happiness.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

This is a rough sport that seems to rack up one tragic story after another. I believe that infractions need to be prevented and punished, but the "hero to zero" factor seems to destroy some people. I hope Floyd doesn't end up like Pantani. That would be very sad no matter what people think of him. 

There is a definite double standard with Landis. He cheated. He got popped and punished. Loads of other guys cheat too. Where's the hate for Valverde?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

thechriswebb said:


> Where's the hate for Valverde?


..or Wiggo...or David Millar...or Vino (ok people tend not to like him), Stuart O'Grady, Basso, etc.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

But not every cheaters hack lab's computers, make threats to former pros the day before they go in court and other shady things... I admit I wasn't a Floyd fan before he got popped but the way he handled things didn't help him get some respect...

And don't get me started on Valverde... I hate him much more than Floyd. At least Floyd looks like he was just not too smart in the whole process, he's not a bad guy, he just (seems) like he's not so smart. Valverde is showing a lot of disrespect for the clean racers, the fans by keeping on racing when we all know he's a doper but gets away with it on technicalities and a corrupt system in Spain that protects him...


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Dan Gerous said:


> But not every cheaters hack lab's computers, make threats to former pros the day before they go in court and other shady things... I admit I wasn't a Floyd fan before he got popped but the way he handled things didn't help him get some respect...


Unless there is video proof of Floyd hacking the computer, it's just another Le Monde story that's about as credible as The Onion, but much less clever and enjoyable.


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2010)

This Floyd stuff bums me out. I'm from Lancaster, PA so having a local boy win the Tour was huge. Then it turns into an embarrasment. I don't think Floyd hacked into any computer. I can't imagine anyone who spends that much time on a bike could find the time to learn enough about computers to hack into an overseas lab. I wouldn't put it past his "legal" team though and if they did he wouldn't know about it anyway. Plus it did shed some light on the lab practices or lack there of at the French lab. I don't know if I'm being a total homer but I'm only faulting Floyd about 65%. I have a hard time placing blame on an American rider that was nabbed by a French lab. If it were a German, Canadian, or just about any other country I would have believed it from the start.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

spade2you said:


> Unless there is video proof of Floyd hacking the computer, it's just another Le Monde story that's about as credible as The Onion, but much less clever and enjoyable.


Just out of curiosity, have you ever actually had a copy of le monde in your hands let alone read a single article from it?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

den bakker said:


> Just out of curiosity, have you ever actually had a copy of le monde in your hands let alone read a single article from it?


Read a couple. That was enough. Wouldn't wipe my ass with it.


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

spade2you said:


> ..or Wiggo...or David Millar...or Vino (ok people tend not to like him), Stuart O'Grady, Basso, etc.


I can't say I've reviewed all the relevant files, but have Wiggins and O'Grady tested positive or admitted to anything in the way of doping, as Millar and Vino, and Basso, have?


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

Dan Gerous said:


> But not every cheaters hack lab's computers, make threats to former pros the day before they go in court and other shady things... I admit I wasn't a Floyd fan before he got popped but the way he handled things didn't help him get some respect...
> 
> And don't get me started on Valverde... I hate him much more than Floyd. At least Floyd looks like he was just not too smart in the whole process, he's not a bad guy, he just (seems) like he's not so smart. Valverde is showing a lot of disrespect for the clean racers, the fans by keeping on racing when we all know he's a doper but gets away with it on technicalities and a corrupt system in Spain that protects him...


Can't agree with you more, Dan. Don't get me wrong; I understand the cold shoulder that Floyd has gotten. It's Valverde's "get out of jail free" card that I don't understand. The corrupt Spanish system that allows him to race really irks me, but the fact that people are still cheering him literally makes my skin crawl. If Landis magically got to race a GT again, he wouldn't survive the race even if he were able to finish it. Somebody would club him off of his bike in the middle of a big climb. What did Floyd do to the sport that Valverde hasn't? Not only did Valverde win a GT, but he won it AFTER his doping infraction when he should have been suspended. He also chugged away during the sabotage of one of the few riders that most people believe to be clean, while his adoring fans madly cheered him along. Pinarello's website still flaunts pictures of him on that hideous f***ing bike that always reminds me of a hot dog covered in ketchup and mustard (the "Prince of Spain"). 

I never thought that I would get so worked up over a doping issue, but something about the Valverde situation really pushes my buttons.


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

spade2you said:


> Unless there is video proof of Floyd hacking the computer, it's just another Le Monde story that's about as credible as The Onion, but much less clever and enjoyable.


this truly makes me laugh. you're aware they just _published_ the story, yes? A judge signed off on the warrant. months ago.


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## gamara (May 20, 2002)

Undecided said:


> I can't say I've reviewed all the relevant files, but have Wiggins and O'Grady tested positive or admitted to anything in the way of doping, as Millar and Vino, and Basso, have?


Ah, whatcha talking about Willis??? When did Wiggins or O'Grady tested positive for anything????? And who said Vino ever admitted to or apologized for any wrong doing?? 

I don't know why you guys hijacked that this thread into the doping forums. Just for the record anyone that has truly read all the facts in Floyd's case should understand that he had a legitimate case for dismissal. Even Allen Lim went on the record saying that Floyd had an excellent case to prove his innocence. 

How this whole entire story nose dived into the twilight zone was when Floyd's manager made the threats against Lemond after Floyd told him what Lemond revealed in confidence to him. If anything Floyd has been a victim of poor advice & mismanagement from his handlers & advisers. Think Tom Cruise or Tiger Woods. 

If anything I like to know what you guys are smoking? Its almost like I'm watching Jay Leno's jaywalking & he's interviewing you guys for your version of the facts. Pretty revisionist.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

gamara said:


> Even Allen Lim went on the record saying that Floyd had an excellent case to prove his innocence.


Do you go to lawyers for nutrition advice and training plans?


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

spade2you said:


> Read a couple. That was enough. Wouldn't wipe my ass with it.


Just consider it a good opportunity to keep your french skills sharp.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

gamara said:


> When did Wiggins or O'Grady tested positive for anything????? And who said Vino ever admitted to or apologized for any wrong doing??


I thought I read that both had been busted at one time, but I can't find enough info. Ok, Vino never apologized, but MANY cyclists have been CAUGHT (plenty haven't been caught) and allowed to return once they served their suspension.


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## cendres (Dec 18, 2002)

spade2you said:


> ..or Wiggo...or David Millar...or Vino (ok people tend not to like him), Stuart O'Grady, Basso, etc.


When/where did Stuey test non-negative? An (admittedly) quick search in the Google turned up nothing.

EDIT: Never mind. I missed your last post.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

spade2you said:


> I thought I read that both had been busted at one time, but I can't find enough info. Ok, Vino never apologized, but MANY cyclists have been CAUGHT (plenty haven't been caught) and allowed to return once they served their suspension.


and many have not been able to get a good contract afterwards. How is Landis post-ban special compared to Rasmussen, Jaksche, Sevilla, Botero, Hamilton? 
(and I guess I should have said MANY to EMPHASIZE my POINT  )


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

den bakker said:


> and many have not been able to get a good contract afterwards. How is Landis post-ban special compared to Rasmussen, Jaksche, Sevilla, Botero, Hamilton?
> (and I guess I should have said MANY to EMPHASIZE my POINT  )


He isn't special, but should be given a chance to prove himself or fall flat on his face without outside influences. Basso and Millar were allowed to return, so I see zero reason with the whole anti-Floyd movement. Believe it or not, but I am fairly neutral with Landis.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

spade2you said:


> He isn't special, but should be given a chance to prove himself or fall flat on his face without outside influences. Basso and Millar were allowed to return, so I see zero reason with the whole anti-Floyd movement. Believe it or not, but I am fairly neutral with Landis.


Landis did have a chance, if he was any good anymore he would have torn the southern california fields to shreds last year. He did not. He placed second in boulevard this year and then disappeared in valley of the sun. He cannot beat the local semi-pros, why would a larger team than ouch sign with him?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

den bakker said:


> Landis did have a chance, if he was any good anymore he would have torn the southern california fields to shreds last year. He did not. He placed second in boulevard this year and then disappeared in valley of the sun. He cannot beat the local semi-pros, why would a larger team than ouch sign with him?


He believes he can do it. When he no longer believes this is possible, he'll hang it up. I think he'd still make a decent domestique and/or team mate in general if he was required.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

spade2you said:


> He believes he can do it. When he no longer believes this is possible, he'll hang it up. I think he'd still make a decent domestique and/or team mate in general if he was required.


and I believe I will end up banging Scarlet Johanson. Again his results speak for themselves.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

den bakker said:


> and I believe I will end up banging Scarlet Johanson. Again his results speak for themselves.


Hey, I'm just treating the guy with basic respect. If you can't even do that, we're done here.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

spade2you said:


> Hey, I'm just treating the guy with basic respect. If you can't even do that, we're done here.


what am I missing here? His results have not been good but that does not matter because he believes and therefore he should get a contract that does not reflect his current performance? 
What has he shown since his return that is worthy of a euro-continental contract?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

den bakker said:


> what am I missing here? His results have not been good but that does not matter because he believes and therefore he should get a contract that does not reflect his current performance?
> What has he shown since his return that is worthy of a euro-continental contract?


I'm not making any claims that he deserves anything or not. Although his lack of team will most likely sideline him for the year unless someone decides to pick him up.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

spade2you said:


> I'm not making any claims that he deserves anything or not. .


"He isn't special, but should be given a chance to prove himself or fall flat on his face without outside influences"
So what is "a chance" then if team ouch was not it?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

den bakker said:


> "He isn't special, but should be given a chance to prove himself or fall flat on his face without outside influences"
> So what is "a chance" then if team ouch was not it?


Ouch is a decent enough team, but I didn't think their support was more than luke warm.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

blackhat said:


> this truly makes me laugh. you're aware they just _published_ the story, yes? A judge signed off on the warrant. months ago.


Funny, I don't recall them issuing any warrants for any French riders who have tested positive and since when are governments infallible? Unless we ever hear of real proof that Floyd was caught doing this, I see it as another witch hunt.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

spade2you said:


> Ouch is a decent enough team, but I didn't think their support was more than luke warm.


Ok it's the teams fault that Landis repeatedly got dropped. And it's the lack of support that meant he could barely TT to a top 5 in cat 3. You're right. We are done here.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

den bakker said:


> Ok it's the teams fault that Landis repeatedly got dropped. And it's the lack of support that meant he could barely TT to a top 5 in cat 3. You're right. We are done here.


You're on a I HATE FLOYD fanclub on facebook, aren't ya?


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

spade2you said:


> You're on a I HATE FLOYD fanclub on facebook, aren't ya?


Those are his results from the southwest last year and the TT was from valley of the sun this year. 
What else would you gauge his level on?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

den bakker said:


> Those are his results from the southwest last year and the TT was from valley of the sun this year.
> What else would you gauge his level on?


I'm not talking just TTs. When I'd see some of the few televised races, I simply didn't see his team pace him back after punctures etc. 

I'm by no means claiming he'll win or lose anything. He's probably still capable of performing the many functions like he did on US Postal. Without a team supporting him AND getting his act together (both critical) he won't be a GC guy.


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## Bianchi67 (Oct 16, 2005)

spade2you said:


> Basso and Millar were allowed to return, so I see zero reason with the whole anti-Floyd movement.


Basso and Millar admitted (eventually) to doing what they got caught with; intent to blood dope and epo in home. Whether they did more is a different issue. Floyd hasn't.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Bianchi67 said:


> Basso and Millar admitted (eventually) to doing what they got caught with; intent to blood dope and epo in home. Whether they did more is a different issue. Floyd hasn't.


Neither did Pantani, who even swore with his last written words.


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

OK Floyd, fess up that you are in here wasting your time trolling for comments instead of out there training like you should be. kthxby.

oh, and please stop pretending you have read Le Monde.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

philippec said:


> OK Floyd, fess up that you are in here wasting your time trolling for comments instead of out there training like you should be. kthxby.
> 
> oh, and please stop pretending you have read Le Monde.


Not Floyd at all and I have read Le Monde, translated of course. 

Still, I'm always amused with the anti-Landis movement. Some take great pride in his downfall as if it were them defeating him in a race.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

spade2you said:


> anti-Landis movement. .


is that what facts are called these days, y'all?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

den bakker said:


> is that what facts are called these days, y'all?


Oh, if I believed half of what the media wrote, I'd only be half as smart. 

I noticed you omitted the part where guys take pleasure in him losing as if they were the ones defeating him. At least celebrate it out loud if you take pride in it.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

spade2you said:


> Oh, if I believed half of what the media wrote, I'd only be half as smart.


O'Grady would probably appreciate it. 


spade2you said:


> I noticed you omitted the part where guys take pleasure in him losing as if they were the ones defeating him. At least celebrate it out loud if you take pride in it.


Very astute sherlock, it's been awhile since I've seen any of them. probably a few yahoos around, just like a few yahoos that think it is all a french conspiracy. 
I'm more impressive of the amount of effort some will put into defending his POS results after his doping ban.


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

gamara said:


> Ah, whatcha talking about Willis??? When did Wiggins or O'Grady tested positive for anything????? And who said Vino ever admitted to or apologized for any wrong doing??
> 
> If anything I like to know what you guys are smoking? Its almost like I'm watching Jay Leno's jaywalking & he's interviewing you guys for your version of the facts. Pretty revisionist.


I didn't say or even suggest that Wiggins or O'Grady had tested positive for or admitted to doping. I questioned the prior claim or suggestion that they had. What I wrote was:



Undecided said:


> I can't say I've reviewed all the relevant files, but have Wiggins and O'Grady tested positive or admitted to anything in the way of doping, as Millar and Vino, and Basso, have?


I'm not sure how you could have misconstrued my post as an allegation against Wiggins or O'Grady, but I hope I've clarified it, as I dislike your implication that I'd made any such allegation.

Similarly, although less important, I didn't write that Vinokourov had admitted to or apologized for anything, and I don't like your implication that I was somehow defending him.

It's a bit rich for you to accuse me of creating a "version" of the facts when all I did was ask a question and you then so completely misinterpreted it.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

den bakker said:


> O'Grady would probably appreciate it.
> 
> Very astute sherlock, it's been awhile since I've seen any of them. probably a few yahoos around, just like a few yahoos that think it is all a french conspiracy.
> I'm more impressive of the amount of effort some will put into defending his POS results after his doping ban.


OMG, I mixed O'Grady up with another doper. If you haven't seen the list, it's huge enough. Besides, as Cofidis alum exactly how many of them got busted????? I mixed up a few years, alright??

As for conspiracies, I've seen plenty in my own little world to know that they're feasible elsewhere. I've seen more than a few people who get pinched and take the fall while someone gets away with it. I don't trust the athletes or the people testing. There's entirely too much money involved for pure honesty.

As for my dislike for Le Monde, but I don't read sources that prefer creating stories to reporting what happened.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

spade2you said:


> OMG, I mixed O'Grady up with another doper. If you haven't seen the list, it's huge enough. Besides, as Cofidis alum exactly how many of them got busted????? I mixed up a few years, alright??


guilt by association. Beautiful. Thank god phonak was pure as snow otherwise Landis would be thrown under the same bus right?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

den bakker said:


> guilt by association. Beautiful. Thank god phonak was pure as snow otherwise Landis would be thrown under the same bus right?


Several were tarnished and several from the squad have been accused during and after riding for the seam, yes. I wouldn't say there are any 100% clean teams. It's always only a matter of time before someone gets caught or they hire an ex-doper.


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

spade2you said:


> Funny, I don't recall them issuing any warrants for any French riders who have tested positive and since when are governments infallible? Unless we ever hear of real proof that Floyd was caught doing this, I see it as another witch hunt.


Find me a French rider, doped or not, that hired a former French Secret Service agent to hack into LNDD. Not that any of this has anything to do with LeMonde, which IIRC was where you were originally directing your angst.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

blackhat said:


> Find me a French rider, doped or not, that hired a former French Secret Service agent to hack into LNDD. Not that any of this has anything to do with LeMonde, which IIRC was where you were originally directing your angst.


If Landis can hack into a computer computer nerds can win the TdF. It's simply nutty to think he also has hacking abilities. Like the recent Astana doping scandal, entirely too far fetched.


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

spade2you said:


> If Landis can hack into a computer computer nerds can win the TdF. It's simply nutty to think he also has hacking abilities. Like the recent Astana doping scandal, entirely too far fetched.


As I wrote, he's not accused of actually writing code. He allegedly hired a former French Secret Service Officer (that's <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/apr/01/greenpeace-france-nuclear-spy-edf"> implicated in other hacks</a> ) to do it for him.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

blackhat said:


> As I wrote, he's not accused of actually writing code. He allegedly hired a former French Secret Service Officer (that's <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/apr/01/greenpeace-france-nuclear-spy-edf"> implicated in other hacks</a> ) to do it for him.



...and Landis has that kind of $ and connections. Furthermore, real secret service types aren't the type to get caught.


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## gamara (May 20, 2002)

Undecided said:


> I'm not sure how you could have misconstrued my post as an allegation against Wiggins or O'Grady, but I hope I've clarified it, as I dislike your implication that I'd made any such allegation.


Your original response was a bit ambiguous, which is why I couldn't understand how those 2 names could be mentioned in the same sentence as the word doping. 

I didn't imply that you were defending Vino. My beef is that there is a double standard. It was brought up that as long as you admit guilt & apologize, then you should be able to race again like so & so. I only stated a fact that Vino never admitted guilt or apologized. In addition he hasn't paid his fine either which is equal to 1 yrs wages. And yet there he is racing with a top Pro tour team. 

Meanwhile Ricco who admitted his guilt, apologized and then subsequently worked with the authorities to reveal his suppliers & finally served his suspension couldn't even get a Pro tour contract because the UCI had undue influence with the teams as to what riders they could sign up. Thats what bugs me when people say that such & such rider isn't sorry or didn't apologize. It has no bearing with the UCI because they make up their own rules as they go. And please don't infer from my example that I'm defending Ricco.



Undecided said:


> It's a bit rich for you to accuse me of creating a "version" of the facts when all I did was ask a question and you then so completely misinterpreted it.


As for my last remarks they weren't directed at you but at those that dragged this OP into the doping forums & then start spewing stuff about a case in which they know nothing of the facts. Thats what bugs me more than anything, when people take half truths & then twist the facts around. I hope that clears the air. No hard feelings.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

spade2you said:


> ...and Landis has that kind of $ and connections. Furthermore, real secret service types aren't the type to get caught.


You seem extremely knowledgeable on the situation. Tell me more about Landis' computer hacking abilities, how much money he has, and who he is connected to. Furthermore, computer hackers don't get caught? This is all really fascinating.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

I read through this whole thread (_whyyyyyy_?). It hurts my head.

I thank God I am not a pro rider.

I just get to, you know..._ride my bike, man._


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

gamara said:


> I don't know why you guys hijacked that this thread into the doping forums. Just for the record anyone that has truly read all the facts in Floyd's case should understand that he had a legitimate case for dismissal. Even Allen Lim went on the record saying that Floyd had an excellent case to prove his innocence.


Of course he would. He was FL's coach at the 2006 TdF. He has a vested interest in FL being exonerated. By definition his link to FL calls into question his integrity. How much did he know? Was he party to the doping? Etc.


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## Campionissimo (Feb 26, 2010)

Floyd's team last year was very strong. You saw no complaints from his teammate, Rory Sutherland who was named Domestic Male Roadie of the Year by Velonews. 

Floyd had plenty of money to hire the hacker. His fee was only $3,000 and this was paid in 2006. Early in the case Floyd was flush with cash, even chartering private jets to fly in some witness. $3,000 for a hacker is nothing.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Campionissimo said:


> Floyd's team last year was very strong. You saw no complaints from his teammate, Rory Sutherland who was named Domestic Male Roadie of the Year by Velonews.
> 
> Floyd had plenty of money to hire the hacker. His fee was only $3,000 and this was paid in 2006. Early in the case Floyd was flush with cash, even chartering private jets to fly in some witness. $3,000 for a hacker is nothing.


Maybe velonews is on the Le Monde payroll and is honoring Rory to paint Landis in an even worse light


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