# Van Dessel WTF or Soma DC



## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

I am thinking my next project will be to build up a new commuter. When I commute it is 25 miles one way, mostly smooth-ish paved roads. Want the bike to be more road bike than anything else, also leaning very strongly toward disc brakes, just because I don't have a bike with them and want something different. Fender and rack mounts a must. My initial research has narrowed my current top two as a Van Dessel WTF or a Soma Double Cross DC. Wondering if by chance there is anyone out there with experiance on either or better yet both. What are your thoughts? Any other frames I should be considering? 

Thinking SRAM for components as I recently test rode a Blue Norcross with Rival and really liked the double tap shifting. Been a die hard Campy fan for 20+ years and I don't see me ever building up a Shimano bike. No real dislike for Shimano, just not the path I have taken. For the same reason I want a disc brake bike I think I want to switch it up a bit and go with SRAM. 

Below is a shot of my current commuter a nice old SLX Schwill Voyager complete with local Bike to Work Day trophy for my office. I am getting tired of wrestling with the rear 126 spacing when I get a flat. I guess I could just tweak the rear triangle to accomidate a modern 130 or 135 hub, but sort of just want a new commuter anyway. Current config of the Voyager is mostly Centaur parts with Zonda wheels and a Chorus mid-cage RD. 

Van Dessel WTF
Van Dessel – Whiskey Tango Foxtrot 

Soma DC
Double Cross DC | SOMA Fabrications 

Thoughts?


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

I'd want a rack for sure. I didn't see one on the WTF.


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## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

Pablo said:


> I'd want a rack for sure. I didn't see one on the WTF.


99% sure it has braze ons for rack/fenders. But you are right that is a must.


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## LC (Jan 28, 2004)

Soma has Tange Prestige tubes which is pretty high end stuff. 

WTF is "durable steel"?

I have a Soma DC and it is a good bike for just about any type of riding you can think of with just a change of wheels/tires. I use it for shopping trips, touring, long distance rides, and off road trails. It has that just right feel of plenty stiff to handle anything you can dish out, but absorbs the punishment of bad roads. I have the canti version but I assume the disc version would ride the same.


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## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

LC thanks for noting that I need to look into the tube set. Glad to hear you like your Soma, I have yet to hear a Soma owner that did not like their bike...that says a lot. In researching this my head says Soma is the smart choice. My heart like the quirkiness of the WTF with its silly paint, dual top tubes and curvy figure. It just looks like a fun bike. Something about the belt drive option is intriguing too.


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## jmkimmel (Jul 13, 2007)

I had a similar choice to make - and ended up with a NOS Kona Sutra with sliders.

The WTF would work great, but is a tank - it weighs more than my old Karate Monkey with steel fork. I, too, love the quirky paint and curved tubes, but couldn't justify having that heavy/stiff of a bike without actually being able to handle full sized (2.2-2.35) 29er tires. My commute is similar to yours - 17mi each way, smoothish pavement, all weather - I also basically want a durable road bike with disks. I'm actually building this up with an alfine 8 for salt/slush/winter nastiness, so we'll see how that goes. 

Good luck!


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## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

OK, leaning more toward the Soma now. Got a question on sizing. I don't have a dealer anywhere near me. I typically like a small-ish frame. 54/54 or 54/55 for traditional frames. The soma has a sloping top tube right?

Seems like the 52 with a 55.6 top tube would be the one...but wanted to see what others think. The 54 has almost a 57 top tube, that has to be too big. For the record I am 5'10 with about a 32 inch inseam. Current rides are a 54 Pinarello Prince (they run a tad big), 56 Colnago C-40 but the 56 is CtT. Both the Prince and C-40 use a 130mm stem. My Voyager in the above picture is a 21 inch frame. Also have a Kestrel Evoke with sloping TT and it is a 48.

Is there any chance I want the 50 with its 54.8 top tube??? There is a slight chance I might take off the commuting gear from time to time and strip it down and do a cross race or two this year or next...but I think longer term I would get a specific cross bike.

BTW, jmkimmel report back on the alfine. Nice!


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

The funny thing about the WTF is that I had a custom bike built about two years ago, and then, about a year later I saw the WTF. I mean, wtf, an amazing coincidence: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...-bike-warning-may-cause-bike-lust-196448.html


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## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

Pablo said:


> The funny thing about the WTF is that I had a custom bike built about two years ago, and then, about a year later I saw the WTF. I mean, wtf, an amazing coincidence: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...-bike-warning-may-cause-bike-lust-196448.html


That is one of the best bikes I have EVER seen. Love the internal routing, understated Ti look and of course the campy parts. Very nice....green with envy.


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## LC (Jan 28, 2004)

For sizing don't worry about any measurement except the effective top tube length since it is very sloping and your going to have a lot more seatpost showing then your used to. The longer seatpost is part of what softens the ride on your saddle, while the compact frame keeps it from flexing when you stomp hard up a hill.


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## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

I am used to a fair amount of seatpost sticking up (see photos below). The Kestrel has a sloping top tube so there it quite a bit of it out. The C-40 is more tratitional and since this pic when I was first setting it up I have raised the seat even more.

Perhaps I am wrong, but I was under the impression that for a commuter and/or touring bike you typically want a longer top tube and less stem. I tend to ride 120/130 stems on smaller bikes, but was thinking on this bike a slightly larger frame with a shorter stem might be in order. I think that would work well for a commuter, but if I want it to do double duty as a cross bike I think more compact would be the ticket. Perhaps I am over thinking this.

The 50cm frame has a 54.8 ETT, close to my typical 55. 
The 52 has a 55.6 ETT, not far off off 55 by any means.
The 54 is 56.7. 

Both the 50 and 52 are pretty close to 55, but if I were looking for a slightly longer top tube for the reasons above the 54 could work, no??? On the other hand 56.7 is almost 57 and that is quite a bit beyond 55 or is it really because it is less than an inch?



















Even though not much seatpost on this one I threw the pic of the pince in just because ;-)


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## StageHand (Dec 27, 2002)

rplace13 said:


> OK, leaning more toward the Soma now. Got a question on sizing. I don't have a dealer anywhere near me. I typically like a small-ish frame. 54/54 or 54/55 for traditional frames. The soma has a sloping top tube right?
> 
> Seems like the 52 with a 55.6 top tube would be the one...but wanted to see what others think. The 54 has almost a 57 top tube, that has to be too big. For the record I am 5'10 with about a 32 inch inseam. Current rides are a 54 Pinarello Prince (they run a tad big), 56 Colnago C-40 but the 56 is CtT. Both the Prince and C-40 use a 130mm stem. My Voyager in the above picture is a 21 inch frame. Also have a Kestrel Evoke with sloping TT and it is a 48.
> 
> ...


The effect of the sloping top tube is mostly (not completely) to get a taller headtube without ridiculous amounts of flex. It was not a factor when I chose the size of my current Double Cross.

If you can, also check out the Salsa Vaya, which comes complete with disc brakes and Sram Apex kit.


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## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

StageHand, What size DC do you have and what size traditional bike do you typically ride? I have looked at a few of the Salsa bikes like many of them. Big fan of the La Cruz as well from days gone by. I really like what they have done with the Chili Con Crosso and the ability to switch the dropouts between SS and multi gear.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

On second thought, if I were you, I'd sell the Pinarello and get a custom touring bike.


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## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

Pablo said:


> On second thought, if I were you, I'd sell the Pinarello and get a custom touring bike.


You need to talk to my wife Pablo! She seems to think I already have enough bikes. Keeping this one on the cheap and want to have a steel bike. Custom just begs Ti. Guess I could go steel custom, but that kind of flys in the face of commuting and saving some $$$ along with the planet. I do think the build will be fairly "custom". Right now I am thinking red CKing hubs with these Deep-Vs to liven up the sort of tame Soma looks. With disc brakes I won't need machined sidewalls.

What do you think?


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

rplace13 said:


> You need to talk to my wife Pablo! She seems to think I already have enough bikes. Keeping this one on the cheap and want to have a steel bike. Custom just begs Ti. Guess I could go steel custom, but that kind of flys in the face of commuting and saving some $$$ along with the planet. I do think the build will be fairly "custom". Right now I am thinking red CKing hubs with these Deep-Vs to liven up the sort of tame Soma looks. With disc brakes I won't need machined sidewalls.
> 
> What do you think?


I'm sure it'll look good. I do like CK and Deep Vs. 

I'm just thinking that if after you build up a bike with Chris King wheels etc., you're well past building a bike on the cheap. Plus, for me at least, I think about a steel or ti frame lasting you forever, while parts wear out and come and go. For about the same amount of money, you could transfer the extra few hundred bucks from the wheelset to a cusom steel frame with the geometry you want.


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## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

Hmmm, perhaps a custom steel frame does not cost as much as I think it does. I'll have to look into it. Good food for thought. 

I do realize that a SRAM force/rival build along with CKing hubs, headset, etc is a bit beyond that $500 frames price, but also thought the Soma/Van Dessel was good "value" and I could get off my 1980s, 27" designed Voyager with a winter project and down the road perhaps transfer the parts to a different frame. Kind of looking at it as a transition bike.

The Voyager has been with me forever and I like it, but it is really relaxed and seem to take forever to get around a tight corner using all available asphalt. a few years back I was not sure I was going to enjoy such a long commute weekly, so it was rebuilt from a dust collecting polo bike into a spare parts commuter. Upgraded wheels, parts along the way once I was digging the commuting thing, but I thik it is time to move on. Always fun working out the details of a new bike.


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## IcemanYVR (Jul 27, 2006)

Hi, a little late to this conversation but I thought I'd throw another bike into the mix... have you considered a Gunnar Fastlane?

It's a steel, disc brake road bike with fender/rack eyelets and customization available for an upcharge. It's got clearance for larger tires. I've seen them run as flatbar or dropbar bikes. 

I'm building one up for next season as a commuter/rain/training bike.


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## StageHand (Dec 27, 2002)

rplace13 said:


> StageHand, What size DC do you have and what size traditional bike do you typically ride? I have looked at a few of the Salsa bikes like many of them. Big fan of the La Cruz as well from days gone by. I really like what they have done with the Chili Con Crosso and the ability to switch the dropouts between SS and multi gear.


It really depends on the brand. I've owned bikes ranging from 58 to 62 cm. I test rode a Redline 56 that fit pretty well. That said, at about 6'2", I ride a 60 cm Soma, which is based on the effective top tube compared to my Gunnar Street Dog, which I think is also a 60, but an older geometry than what they sell now.


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## StageHand (Dec 27, 2002)

You should probably go out and ride some bikes. Yes, a cm difference is big. As far as analyzing the numbers, you have to remember your angles, as well. If you take a stem off your racing bike, and but it on a crosser or tourer, odds are the cockpit shortens a bit, as the angles get shallower, effectively moving the handlebars back. The effects of bar to saddle drop are also more unpredictable. The bigger the drop, the more you'll need to shorten the stem to compensate, as you'll get moved farther behind the bottom bracket than usual, and the stem will not move the same amount. The details go on and on. You can get close based on effective top tube, but you'll probably need to play with the stem length and angle a little bit.

You should also think carefully about how you want to change the cockpit from bike to bike, if at all. I tend not to do that, others do it pretty dramatically. If you get a similar sized Soma or Salsa (or Gunnar) you will have a considerably taller head tube, and you may not be able to achieve the same cockpit setup you have now. All food for thought, but I think you ought to ride a few bikes before you do anything.


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## cbarne12 (Sep 8, 2011)

Go with (if you can find one) a Rivendell Rambouillet - has fender mounts, eyelets for racks, just the right amount of stiffness versus comfort. I changed the wheels out on mine and went with ceramic bearings (low maintenance)...my commute is 28 miles one way. For what it's worth.


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## LC (Jan 28, 2004)

From looking at how your other bikes are sized and setup I think the 52cm DC would be appropriate for use as a commuter.


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## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

I'd love to ride a Soma but nothing close to me.

IcemanYVR, thanks for the Gunnar tip. Lots of good options there, something to strongly consider. Love the custom paint and build option.


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## StageHand (Dec 27, 2002)

rplace13 said:


> I'd love to ride a Soma but nothing close to me.
> 
> IcemanYVR, thanks for the Gunnar tip. Lots of good options there, something to strongly consider. Love the custom paint and build option.


Ride any bike with those angles. See what size gives you the best cockpit length and size your new bike accordingly.


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## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

Well as luck would have it the Gunner site put me in contact with a not so far away shop that carries Gunner. While they don't have the frames in stock I am interested in they do have a few. Also the owner once had a Fast Lane, I think I am leaning toward the Hyer-X more...steel, disc and more cross racing basically a disc version of their cross bike, but with full eyelets for rack/fenders. As an added bonus he is a Salsa and Soma dealer and had a frame only of the Soma DC. Wonder why Soma site does not list them.

So at a minimum I can see the frames in person. They do have a MTB and Road version of Gunner bikes built up so there is something I can take for a spin. He said the Hyper-x would be the next bike he stocked from them, wonder if I can get him to stock on in my size since I am in no hurry.

Gunnar Cycles USA


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## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

Thanks IcemanYVR, I can blame you for draing my wallet. I hit up a shop about an hour away that carried Soma and Gunnar. I really liked the Soma seems like a fantasitc deal. Nice quality and good finish. Then I rode two different Gunnar models and was imediatly in love. Something magic about it. Compliant but stiff, snappy but not twitchy, and all out fun.

So I put down a deposit on a Gunnar Hyper X and got the wife a new Soma doublecross DC. Maybe this will be the best of both world. Can't wait for the 3-4 weeks to pass for my Gunnar to be built. Custom paint and all 

Who has component recomendations Force vs. Rival? What do you think about 36/46 11-28 gearing for somewhat hill commuting and cyclocross racing? Right now all my bikes including commuter are 39/53 12-25 or 12-26.

I do have a short window to change the paint but for now I am going with Sunshine yellow over Shamroc Green. Look it up on the Gunnar site and tell me how you think it will look with Gold Chris King hubs, headset and BB. I am thinking it will look like the Brazilian flag.

Hey, I found an example of the paint...what do you think?
wow, that picture was crazy big...try this link in a new tab instead

https://waterfordbikes.com/images/upload/SR-14-52529.jpg


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## IcemanYVR (Jul 27, 2006)

rplace13 said:


> Thanks IcemanYVR, I can blame you for draing my wallet.


always glad I can help...  and Congrats!



rplace13 said:


> Who has component recomendations Force vs. Rival?


If you're at all concerned about weight, I would go with Force... it's considerably lighter. Of course, that would also drain your wallet a little more


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## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

Are there any "real" differences between Rival and Force. I am much more familiar with Campy parts and some of the higher end components will use beaings where lower parts will use bushings. I am most concerned with the shifters as a derailleur is not all that expensive to replace down the road. Are the internals and feel/shifting of Rival and Force levers the same, if not what are the differences?

Thanks!


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## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

Boooooo! Gunnar is waiting on some proper tubes for my frame, not going to have it before Thanksgiving now. The wait is killing me. 

Can't wait to see how the paint turned out. I ended up going with Force parts and Chris King hubs, headset, spacers along with some other gold anodized parts. Also went with Velocity Fusion rims that go from black to white in the light.

How you think that will look?


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## IcemanYVR (Jul 27, 2006)

rplace13 said:


> Boooooo! Gunnar is waiting on some proper tubes for my frame, not going to have it before Thanksgiving now. The wait is killing me.
> 
> Can't wait to see how the paint turned out. I ended up going with Force parts and Chris King hubs, headset, spacers along with some other gold anodized parts. Also went with Velocity Fusion rims that go from black to white in the light.
> 
> How you think that will look?


Can't wait to see it and hear how it rides... if you're anything like me, the wait must be killing you. Have a great holiday :thumbsup:


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## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

Well the long wait seems to be coming to an end. I just got the teaser picture from the shop. I am thinking maiden voyage on Friday.


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## IcemanYVR (Jul 27, 2006)

Nice... those are quite the hubs, which ones are they?


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## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

Thanks! I can't wait to see it in person. Chris King MTB ISO disc hubs.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Sep 16, 2011)

That Gunnar is sexy! I was going to order a WTF, but seeing the Gunnar (and having Van Dessel not return my emails) makes me think otherwise.


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