# c10 ultra w/connex or kmc X10SL?



## dave962b (Oct 5, 2004)

Made the switch from shimmy to campy. Don't want to use the ultranarrow(5.9) since can't quickly take it off to clean. Any recommendations between these two? thanks


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

dave962b said:


> Made the switch from shimmy to campy. Don't want to use the ultranarrow(5.9) since can't quickly take it off to clean. Any recommendations between these two? thanks


I've got an X10-SL running on Campy Record bits. It works just as well as the C10 did before it. Juanmoretime is using one, and if you head over to Weight Weenies, you'll find lot's o' folks over there are using 'em. In fact, there's a thread there, now, about 'em. No punches are pulled over there: if something sucks, they say it sucks.


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## Juanmoretime (Nov 24, 2001)

The KMC chain has been working very well for me. I've been told that it's should have a longer life than the Campagnolo chains and the KMC does come with their version of a quick disconnect link verses the Campy where you have to purchase it seperately. Cost wise they are very close, especially adding in the additional cost of the Connex with the Campy chain, and of course it doesn't hurt that the KMC wieghs less.


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

*KMC Chains*

I'm running the KMC DX-10s on a Centaur 10 setup. The 10s is "Shimano specific" while the DX-10 is "Campy specific."

The DX-10s is 6.0mm wide at the pin while the DX-10 is 6.2, the same width as the original Campy 10. Considering that the Campy Ultra is 5.9, I decided to try the narrower 10s.

I don't have enough miles yet to evaluate durability, but it is deathly quiet and shifts beautifully. The reasonable price and the fact that it comes with a tool-less, reuseable master link make it that much better as an option.


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## marimba_artist (Dec 10, 2001)

I recently installed the DX-10 on a customer's bike and measured it's stretch with the Park chain checker. Over ten links, it was stretched about 0.25mm right out of the box. For comparison, Campy 10v Chorus chain I installed the other days was stretched about 0.00mm right out of the box. For my money, I recommend genuine Campy chains.


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

marimba_artist said:


> I recently installed the DX-10 on a customer's bike and measured it's stretch with the Park chain checker. Over ten links, it was stretched about 0.25mm right out of the box. For comparison, Campy 10v Chorus chain I installed the other days was stretched about 0.00mm right out of the box. For my money, I recommend genuine Campy chains.


I've got 500 miles on a DX-10s on a Centaur drivetrain.

I just checked it with the Park tool and I have no perceptible stretch. Granted, manufacturing tolerances are such that that much "extra length" is possible, but it is rare.

By the way, neither Campy or Shimano make their own chains.


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## marimba_artist (Dec 10, 2001)

Richard said:


> Granted, manufacturing tolerances are such that that much "extra length" is possible, but it is rare.
> 
> By the way, neither Campy or Shimano make their own chains.


Rare? Are you kidding me? Try measuring a Shimano 10spd Ultegra out of the box. Or better yet, a Shimano 9spd Ultegra chain, then we'll talk about manufacturing tolerances.


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

marimba_artist said:


> Rare? Are you kidding me? Try measuring a Shimano 10spd Ultegra out of the box. Or better yet, a Shimano 9spd Ultegra chain, then we'll talk about manufacturing tolerances.


All I can say is this is why I despise Shimano chains, going back to the 80's.

All us "old guys" from the Shimano 7-8-9 speed days went for Sedis/Sachs/Sram chains.

Nobody "makes" worse chains than Shimano!


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*park tool is worthless...*



marimba_artist said:


> I recently installed the DX-10 on a customer's bike and measured it's stretch with the Park chain checker. Over ten links, it was stretched about 0.25mm right out of the box. For comparison, Campy 10v Chorus chain I installed the other days was stretched about 0.00mm right out of the box. For my money, I recommend genuine Campy chains.


What you were measuring is the difference in roller displacement, not the pitch of the chain. While the pitch should always be .500 inch when new, the roller OD, ID and clearance between the bushing is not always the same between brands, so a Park tool may produce a different reading with a different brand. It does not tell you anything about the tolerance the chain is built to. If a chain were very far off tolerance when new, it would skip, even when mated with new cogs.

After the chain has been used a few thousands miles, it's possible for the roller wear over the very short 5.7 inch length measured by the Park chain tool to be larger than the change in the chain pitch. This would make the tool read twice the actual amount of elongation. The only accurate way to measure the chain pitch is either with a scale, 12" or longer, or by comparison over the whole length with a new chain.

I prefer campy chain myself, but it is possible to have the chain elongation be only 1/4 of the allowable 1/16 inch per foot and have totally shot rollers. Both areas of wear need to be measured to evaluate the condition of the chain. New rollers wil check about .210 inch in between them. I consider them shot at .235-.240. This amount of wear is 20-30 times the wear that's tolerable in the pins and their bushings.


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## steel515 (Sep 6, 2004)

thanks for your super technical explanation. To put it simply, can I just change chain and cassette when it skips?


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*not really...*

A chain will not skip just because it's worn out. A new chain will skip on worn cogs.

If you really want to get the most mileage from a cassette, at least two chains should be used and alternated every thousand miles or so. Then you will never put a totally new chain on a partially worn cassette. Whether alternating a third chain should be considered depends on the cost ratio of the chain to the cassette.

You still have to use the appropriate tools to decide when the chain is really shot. The park tool will have you throwing away perfectly good chains. Measuring elongation and roller wear is the key to getting the most mileage from each chain.

As an example, I used one chain on a new cassette for 6000 miles. At this point the chain only had 1/4 of the allowable elongation, but the rollers were worn out. I installed a new chain and it skipped only on the 19T cog. Rather than toss the cassette, I installed a partially worn chain with only 3000 miles of use and there is not more skipping. this cassette can easily be used for another 2-3000 miles, perhaps more.


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