# An open message to bikes direct...



## chocostove (Jan 31, 2007)

Just a thought, Have you ever thought about streamlining your models and brands? It's pretty obvious that many bikes share the same frames. Instead of laying out multiple models across the whole page, try listing by the model, and go in ascending order of components. And thin out some of the brands. Or give each brand a "focus" so that it gives more definition to what your customers are seeing. 

Also, it's pretty obvious there's a pretty high demand for entry level steel frames. 
order more next time, or maybe order some for bike island so people can build them up.

And these are not meant as harsh criticisms, but an open critique. Unlike many other people, I like a lot of what you do. But the website and branding is ridiculous. I've seen web designers with steam coming out of their ears at your site.


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## mopartodd (Dec 1, 2010)

Agreed. Those are some good suggestions.
I noticed on one website, Cannondale I think, that they offer basically the same frame with multiple component group choices.
BD could make it easier to compare the bikes they offered simply by having a compare models feature on the site.


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## swidd (Jul 17, 2011)

Just to add to this: the GREATEST feature of their website is the table on each bicycle that lists each component of the bike, clearly listing out specs, brand, dimensions etc. It makes it very easy to compare with other manufacturers. 

If they could slap all that information into a database table, make it sortable so you could eliminate or only show a list of bikes with certain features, like Ksyrium Elite wheels, Aksium wheels, Ksyrium Equipe wheels... SRAM only, or Shimano only, TT only, steel only, Immortal frames only, Le Champion frames only... titanium frames only etc. Simple categories in each most important field of their table. 

It would take a competent database/web developer only a day to accomplish, and seeing as it would be strictly presentation, would not add much of any complexity.

That said, I spent $1900 there even with the outdated website. Spend hours longer clicking around researching, compared to the quick glance at other brands... where I quickly discover a reason not to buy


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## atctimmy (Jul 16, 2011)

I'd just be happy if they actually had bikes to sell. It seems that they are never in stock when I'm looking to buy.


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## flatsix911 (Jun 28, 2009)

Agreed. 

They really need to add a Graphic Table with a summary of the components on each type of Frame. 
See Competitive Cyclist for an excellent example of this type of cutting edge web design ... :thumbsup:

Kit Calculator - Competitive Cyclist


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## sgalante (May 5, 2009)

Flatsix911,
Although I think the Competitive Cyclist example you showed is excellent, for weights, the whole gist of it, is for a different target market. Competitive Cyclist is using more of a bicycle shop criteria for their web site design, where they let you decide the individual components of the configuration (crank, derailleur, wheelset, etc) where as Bikes Direct., has designated configurations in the box. Although I am sure BD could do this, the cost of the bikes would take a definite jump in price. The mere personnel needed, just to configure and pack the bikes would take a major cut into whatever little margin they currently have on the bikes. Sure, I would love to get the 2011 Motobecane Le Champion Ti Heat, except with a SRAM Force crank, Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels, and a few other changes, but that isn't BD's target market or pricing strategy.


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## swidd (Jul 17, 2011)

I trust them to put together component packages that cost as little as possible for maximum quality parts... they didn't go wrong on Immortal Fire! What else would I possibly desire?


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## Lifelover (Jul 8, 2004)

The cheezy website is part of the brand. It helps convince newbs (90+ % of their buyers) that they are cheap because of reduced marketing cost.

Mike knows who to sell and who to target.


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## wooglins (Sep 20, 2011)

I think bikes direct is a good company, that is making it easy for consumers to by directly from factories in Asia. No more no less. It is a great operation when you realize what it is. You could order something very similar direct from the factory using alibaba to track down a supllier but you would be taking on overseas shipping risks, spec risks, etc.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Lifelover said:


> The cheezy website is part of the brand. It helps convince newbs (90+ % of their buyers) that they are cheap because of reduced marketing cost.
> 
> Mike knows who to sell and who to target.


Right. The layout of the motobecane website is superior. 

Compare: 

Motobecane USA | Road Titanium Bicycles | Track Bicycles | Cross Bicycles


Titanium Road Bikes, Roadbikes - 2011 Motobecane Le Champion Team Ti


It's the exact same bike, using the exact same photographs (hosted on the same site).


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## sgalante (May 5, 2009)

Wooglins, I really think BD is a different animal than ordering from China via Alibaba or a similar source in that although you can order a frameset and wheels from China, I'm not familiar with a source for complete bikes. I may be wrong, but I really feel it would be difficult to assemble a complete titanium bike like those on the BD site for a comparable price to your door. Obviously, you can build one more specific to your desires for each component, but I would think it is nearly impossible to build a Force equipped Titanium bike for ~$2K elsewhere.


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## wooglins (Sep 20, 2011)

sgalante said:


> Wooglins, I really think BD is a different animal than ordering from China via Alibaba or a similar source in that although you can order a frameset and wheels from China, I'm not familiar with a source for complete bikes. I may be wrong, but I really feel it would be difficult to assemble a complete titanium bike like those on the BD site for a comparable price to your door. Obviously, you can build one more specific to your desires for each component, but I would think it is nearly impossible to build a Force equipped Titanium bike for ~$2K elsewhere.


There are complete bikes on Alibaba, you just to talk to one of the sources that has a complete bike, tell them what you want, and away it will go. The difference is you really have no clue what you will end up with, and that is where companies like BD come in.

By the way I have a Motobecane


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## sgalante (May 5, 2009)

wooglins said:


> There are complete bikes on Alibaba, you just to talk to one of the sources that has a complete bike, tell them what you want, and away it will go. The difference is you really have no clue what you will end up with, and that is where companies like BD come in.
> 
> By the way I have a Motobecane


I didn't realize that they had complete bikes. I went to a couple of the sites on Alibaba, and both of them showed a minimum order of 10, but I am sure there are others with no such minimum. I'd really be interested in what the final cost to ones door would be going this way, but I think I'll stick with BD, when the time comes to order my new bike.


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## CalypsoArt (Dec 28, 2007)

sgalante said:


> Flatsix911,
> Although I think the Competitive Cyclist example you showed is excellent, for weights, the whole gist of it, is for a different target market. Competitive Cyclist is using more of a bicycle shop criteria for their web site design, where they let you decide the individual components of the configuration (crank, derailleur, wheelset, etc) where as Bikes Direct., has designated configurations in the box. Although I am sure BD could do this, the cost of the bikes would take a definite jump in price. The mere personnel needed, just to configure and pack the bikes would take a major cut into whatever little margin they currently have on the bikes. Sure, I would love to get the 2011 Motobecane Le Champion Ti Heat, except with a SRAM Force crank, Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels, and a few other changes, but that isn't BD's target market or pricing strategy.


Just what I was thinking. Also, there is the added aspect of what in the libraries of old was called walking the stacks. In the old days before complete computer systems and Google, people doing research would end up in the general area of the library that contained their material. As they walked the stacks trying to find what they wanted, they often bumped into other things of interest. Same w/BD. I often consider models I wasn't initially seeking. Unfortunately, they never have my size when I seem to make a choice.

The website is not pretty, down right ugly even. But I'm certain it works for BD's purposes. Just like the jarring designs for fast food restaurants.


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## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

CalypsoArt said:


> Just what I was thinking. Also, there is the added aspect of what in the libraries of old was called walking the stacks. In the old days before complete computer systems and Google, people doing research would end up in the general area of the library that contained their material. As they walked the stacks trying to find what they wanted, they often bumped into other things of interest. Same w/BD. I often consider models I wasn't initially seeking. Unfortunately, they never have my size when I seem to make a choice.
> 
> The website is not pretty, down right ugly even. But I'm certain it works for BD's purposes. Just like the jarring designs for fast food restaurants.


I agree with you and with most people on this post. I also understand bikes direct is keeping costs as low as possible in order to be able to offer bikes at these prices and still turn a profit. However, you can't help but feel like they created this website in an inexpensive manner 10 years ago and now there is much better technology out there that would let you make it look nicer, more user friendly as well as professional, still at a very low cost with very little work. I'm a self employed business person and am in the process of doing the same thing with my website. I started with a simple but effective website using godaddy's website tonight website builder, now I'm overhauling the site using wordpress to give it a cleaner look and an interface that many people are familiar with. Heck, BD doesn't need to change any of the pages that take you to the bikes, just change the main page and clean it up a bit and it would go a long way. they also need to get inventory right. They missed out on an easy sale because they didn't have something listed in stock and then they didn't communicate well to my friend and he elected not to buy anything when he was so hot to buy my exact bike on a whim.


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## SolitaryRider (Oct 20, 2011)

MY Bikesdirect bike will be arriving Tuesday.....

I like their website, and think it is very straight-forward and easy to navigate. It presents just about all the information one needs, except for ****AND THIS IS IMPORTANT*** the weight of the various models!

I almost didn't buy from BD because I could not find out the weights of the bikes.

I did buy however, because for the $299 bike I chose, I knew that I could not get anything comparable anywhere else for the same price......but if the weights of the bikes were listed, I just may have gone with a more expensive model. And if I were shopping for a more expensive model (which I may be in the future) I would not buy without knowing the weight of the bike. 

Also: The colors! Dude, we need better colors! Thank goodness the bike I wanted comes in green! Half the bikes are only available in black or white or yellow or silver, and I did reject several other slightly more expensive models because I did not care for the colors...and I don't care how good of a deal a bike may be, if I don't like the color, I'm not buying it. 

If BD were to make improvements in the above two areas, I feel that their site would be unbeatable, and they'd probably help convert more lookers into actual sales.


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## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

SolitaryRider said:


> MY Bikesdirect bike will be arriving Tuesday.....
> 
> I like their website, and think it is very straight-forward and easy to navigate. It presents just about all the information one needs, except for ****AND THIS IS IMPORTANT*** the weight of the various models!
> 
> ...


YOUR KIDDING RIGHT? your buying a $300 bike and you want to know how much it weighs? seriously???? weight of bikes is stupid. every manf does it differently and they all lie about them or have some half assed system which is why most MANF stopped bothering to post weights. anyone who truly wants a really light bike is going to be putting their own parts on it anyways and regarding colors, why the hell would they get some random colors that only a few people want on EVERY single model of bike? that is bad business. There are certain colors that are staples for bikes and when your trying to keep costs low to the enduser you don't start coming up with a bunch of different options that create more cost. it's a bike, your supposed to ride it, not sit there and look at it.


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## SolitaryRider (Oct 20, 2011)

motobecane69 said:


> YOUR KIDDING RIGHT? your buying a $300 bike and you want to know how much it weighs? seriously???? weight of bikes is stupid. every manf does it differently and they all lie about them or have some half assed system which is why most MANF stopped bothering to post weights. anyone who truly wants a really light bike is going to be putting their own parts on it anyways and regarding colors, why the hell would they get some random colors that only a few people want on EVERY single model of bike? that is bad business. There are certain colors that are staples for bikes and when your trying to keep costs low to the enduser you don't start coming up with a bunch of different options that create more cost. it's a bike, your supposed to ride it, not sit there and look at it.


Yes! Even on a $300 beginner bike I'm somewhat concerned about the weight. If I weren't, I would have simply gone to Wally World and have gotten a 35 lb. $99. behemoth. I believe my bike is going to come in somewhere between 24 and 25 lbs. [We'll see later today when UPS comes) which is not bad for a $300 bike- it's not like I'm expecting it to be 16.5 lbs...... but if I were selling bikes like that, I would think it to my advantage to mention the weight (at least a ballpark figure) because it would be to my advantage. As I said earlier, I almost dismissed BD because I initially assumed that their bikes were heavy Wal*Mart-esque frames with some decent compoinents slapped on. It took some research to see that this is not the case- but as someone who has been self-employed since I was 17, I know that I do everything within my power to reassure potential customers and give them every bit of relevant information....and the more so when that info is positive. 

As for the colors, you are likely correct. I know, for instance, that black is the "hot" color right now- but I would still think that to offer the customer a choice, especially when one offers so many different models, would be a good thing. How many people are buyin g the yellow bikes? (Would have been the color I would have settled for if my didn't come in green- but it does not seem to be popular either). And if I should not be concerned with color...then neither should anybody else...which is all the more reason to have a greater variety of colors. It may only be a $300 bike....but if I'm buying something brand new, I at least want it to look nice. If I were to buy a more expensive bike, this would become even more important. I mean, these frames are coming from the same factories as other brands, and they're just painting them other colors.....seems to me it wouldn't be a big deal to throw in a maroon or a blue..... (The one good thing is, being a bicycle, it isn't too big of a deal to strip the darn thing and give it a custom paint job, which I just may end up doing).

And you know...bikes used to come in more colors. To this day I still remember and desire the color of my childhood single-speeds!


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## sgalante (May 5, 2009)

My view kind of falls between SolitaryRider and motobecane69. Let's look at Weights and Colors separately.

Weights on bikes for some people is critical. The problem is that publishing the weight of a bike is a tricky situation. Does a manufacturer list the weight of the 48cm or the 61cm bike? If one lists the smallest frame size, they get accused of "playing the weight game", if they choose the largest size, they scare off the weight weenies. I am sure given the great number of items that can be counted in the weight of the bike, there can be a somewhat large discrepancy between 2 bikes of the same genre. I would gather a guess, that when one gets 2 sets of wheels, there may be a difference in the weight of the 2 sets. I'm a heavy set guy, I ride with 32 spoke wheels. I am sure those extra 16 spokes on the set of wheels, makes a difference along with beefier hubs. The weight of a $299 bike "shouldn't" be as critical as the weight for a $3000+ bike, and I am sure there is more deviation at the lower level with steel and aluminum bikes, than there is when you are weighing a Carbon framed bike high end bike.

As for color. That I think, is a little easier to explain the reasoning for the lack of colors offered by BD. For one, gone are the days of going to the Schwinn dealer, and having your choice of colors on your Varsity, Continental or the one or two other bike models they had. When you only have 4 or 5 bike models, offering different colors was something you could offer. Now, there are few companies that offer their particular models in more than 1 color scheme each. Go to the "big" names and you will see little if any color choices, unless you want to count Trek, and their Project One system, and those start at $5000. Take Felt for example. They offer 32 different models, only 1 of which you can choose a different paint scheme for. It retails for $250 - $500 extra. Each model comes in about 6 sizes, that would mean you have 192 different bikes/sizes, offer each one in 3 different colors, and you get 576 bikes to track. (You get the idea). 

I doubt if the only bike that BD offered that came in Green, was $600, you would have doubled your investment to get it. You can even look at Car manufactures, they offer a small number of colors on their vehicles, I know when I bought my Honda a few years ago, if I wanted a particular color, I had to move up to a better equipped model. That is why pretty much every car model is made in Silver, that seems to be the color of choice for most new car buyers. I hate silver on a car, so I would probably never buy one, but that is the risk a manufacturer takes when they decide on colors to offer.

I hope that all made sense.


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## brueg (Nov 9, 2011)

For me listing by groupset works. When I started shopping
that was about the only thing I was sure of. I think there are some
good suggestions in the posts above and although I only have a 
couple hundred miles on my new bike. At this point I am a happy
customer.


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## wooglins (Sep 20, 2011)

The website is fine. It sorta adds to the whoel chintz aspect of the the purchase up front. Lowers expectation which makes it easier to satisfy the customer. Neuvation does the same thing.


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## PhotoJoe (Mar 8, 2011)

What makes me scratch my head is why the Ti Force bike is ONLY listed in the SRAM section and nowhere in the Ti section. I wonder how many people have gone to the Ti section and only seen Rival and Red as SRAM options and gone Rival because they didn't know there was a Force option. Seems to me like even if you had to make two lines of Ti offerings, all Ti bikes should be listed in the Ti section. But then again....what do I know?


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## SolitaryRider (Oct 20, 2011)

sgalante said:


> I doubt if the only bike that BD offered that came in Green, was $600, you would have doubled your investment to get it.


True- but had I wanted to purchase a $600 bike, and it were only available in, say, white or yellow, I would have refrained from purchasing it- just as I would have refrained from purchasing the $300 bike if it had not been available in an appealing color. 

I'm not saying that they should make every bike available in a rainbow of colors....but when many models are only available in one color; or the same one or two colors seem to predominate among many models, it can be a real turn-off. 

In another thread, someone posted a pic of their new Motobecane Century Pro- I really liked the specs of that bike and the 17 lb. weight, and could see myself upgrading to it one day. I also liked the fact that it comes in a nice blue. Had the bike been white or yellow or red, I would not even give it a thought. 

Same with new cars- I may not be too fussy about the colors of used vehicles (My current van is white...and I hate white vehicles!) but if I were gonna go out and spend $25K-$30K on a new vehicle, I would not do so unless it were available in a color I really liked. 

It seems in general, whether we're talking cars or bikes, whatever, that they are offering fewer color choices these days. 

If a bike you were considering buying turned out to only be available in lavender, would you still buy it?


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## sgalante (May 5, 2009)

SolitaryRider, I think you may have missed the point I was making about the lack of colors available across the entire bike industry. Especially now with carbon frames making so much headway in the marketplace. Pretty much every bike company offers their carbon bikes (in words of Henry Ford) in any color you want so long as it is black (the look of natural carbon sells bikes in the US). These companies have to live by the almighty dollar. I gave the example of Felt bikes, since theirs is pretty much the only other bike I usually consider. They offer each of their bikes in a single color scheme. NOW, they do offer a few of their bikes in a different color scheme in different continents, but again, only 1 color per model, per continent. That is based on their research of what colors will sell best in a given region of the world. I would love to have the money that GM spends each year trying to determine which colors to produce each model car in for a given year.

To answer your question, I probably would not buy a lavender bike, but I also wouldn't want a green bike either. I'm one of those guys who likes simple things. Black, white, red, titanium...


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## SolitaryRider (Oct 20, 2011)

No, I hear ya, Sgalante.... And funny- I was thinking of that very Henry Ford quote whiler I was penning my previous post.... 

To clarify: I know it's not just a Bikesdirect thing- it's true of all manufacturers, like you said- and even (to a somewhat lesser extent) with cars. 

I'm just wondering if all the money they[collectively speaking- all manufacturers] spend on researching the psychology of various colors vs. sales, wouldn't be better spent skipping the research and just offering a few more colors, so that we could have a choice?

I may not represent the majority of consumers, but I'll bet it wouldn't hurt anything to do as I said, above. Seems like that's the way it used to be...and we were the richer for it. Felt can do all the research they want- but if i don't like the color of their bike, no matter how good the bike may be...I ain't buying it. Seems to me that when you're paying hundreds or thousands of dollars for something, you should have a choice as to the color. 

Or, worst case scenario, at least offer optional color choices for an additional charge.


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## sgalante (May 5, 2009)

Some companies do offer more colors at an additional cost.
Trek - Project 1 (Complete bikes start at $5039) They actually do have a few paint schemes you can choose from staring at this price point with no additional charge, just a bit more than the $300 bike you were looking at. Their real customization starts at an additional $775 plus the cost of the bike. They even have a lime green option.
Felt F1-Custom Paint (Starts at $3749 for a Frame only)

I hope you find something you like, that is also in your price range.


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## SolitaryRider (Oct 20, 2011)

LOL! I like my green Galaxy SC2 just fine..... 

So, can you get new decals from companies like Felt, et al, if you want to custom paint their bikes? (I doubt it)- I'm sure I could do a heck of a paint job on a bike for under $100.

I actually think the paint on my Mercier Galaxy is great- for a $300 bike, I really lucked out, in that the very bike I wanted was the one that offered that color. Yeah...for $300, if they hadn't have had the green, I guess I would have gone with the gray....but that's only because I know I couldn't find a bike of that quality anywhere else for anywhere near $300. I get fussier as the price goes up.

For $5K, I not only want a biuke in the color of my choice, but someone to peddle it, too! (Also in the color of my choice! )


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## century (Nov 30, 2011)

*Considering to buy from BD*

Hi guys,

Just came in today and this would be my first post. I am in the market for a carbon fiber
road bike and I like what I'm seeing in BD. I have scouted my LBS and compare it to BD and I can find close enough for the prices of bd.

I have an MTB and want to go to road bike. I'm looking at Immortal Pro or Century Elite.
Any suggestion would be great.


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