# Total waste of time? (tracking training 'metrics')



## adam_mac84 (Sep 22, 2010)

So, I am on the fence on getting a power meter. I understand that it takes a very anal eye and a number junkie to really appreciate one (admit it, that describes YOU).

However, before I am willing to take the plunge, I am thinking of REALLY tracking and focusing on training with HR this year.  Based off of zones etc.

I found a chart from Friel's blog to estimate TSS based on HR zones (5a for 1 hour is 100 TSS score for example). So, using a little bit of math, I have done some estimates of my TSS so far this year (not a ton of volume yet, just coming off of CX a few weeks ago).

I made a spreadsheet with CTL, ATL, TSS, AND TSB metrics based on information from Friel and others out there. I can then output that to a chart (chart auto updates with new information), and it allows me to track training trends so to speak.


Total waste of time trying to estimate all of this based on HR? I know it is VERY rough, but as long as I am somewhat consistent even in my error, I figured it may give me something to look at.

As far as tracking progress. I do a weekly TT (15 mile), and while there are variations in wind etc, it usually gives me a good idea if i am really fatigued, or getting stronger.

Any other tips for HR tracking ideas?


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## redlizard (Jul 26, 2007)

To be fair, you don't have to be anal or a number junkie to use power output. I upload my file and let the software do everything in the blink of an eye, then review the data. I mostly eyeball the graphs, especially critical power and TSS/CTL/ATL, but I do also look at a few of the numbers and maps, too.

You CAN get all caught up in the data, but don't have to go too deep, if you don't want to. You WILL get more and better data with power, you just have to decide if you want or need it.

Sorry, no additional tips for HR.


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## mrcookie (Mar 30, 2008)

You can join training peaks with a free account and upload ride data. TP will give you a TSS score based on hr. admittedly not as accurate as power-based score, but probably better than your estimate. Then again, maybe not. Might be worth a look though.


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## Dave Cutter (Sep 26, 2012)

One of the really great aspects of bicycling is that is has a little something for nearly everyone. Just try to excite the "number-junkie within" with weight lifting or playing tennis.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

DL golden cheetah and use it's trimps function. Its probably more accurate than estimating TSS. It will slightly overestimate the stress of a ride but as long as its consistent that's not a big deal.

Yeah tracking all the power metrics is pretty anal and there u is really only one number in racing that matters (where you finished) but I could tell you my current TSS, SB, and ftp anyway.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

+1 for golden cheetah - power meter for sure, I haven't had success using it for HR information before I got a power meter though setting the Performance Manager for Trimp - maybe I am doing something wrong?


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## adam_mac84 (Sep 22, 2010)

I must be doing it wrong too... I uploaded a few TCX files from my base rides that I have been doing, and adjusted the default HR values to my zones. It doesn't seem to be giving me any Trimp scores. It will give a Trimp (100), but no scores. Can't figure it out quite yet


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## jmorgan (Apr 13, 2012)

Training peaks


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

I forget what the trick is, I think you need to set the resting, LTHR and max values, then tell GC to choose default zones. The zones are important for setting up trimps.


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## hummina shadeeba (Oct 15, 2009)

*dont do it*

everytime I get a gadget I lose interest in cycling. at least if you get a heart monitor you wont have spent much. Using all those machines takes from the fun of it for me and then there's not enough other motivation to sustain me. You might be more dedicated.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

kbiker3111 said:


> I forget what the trick is, I think you need to set the resting, LTHR and max values, then tell GC to choose default zones. The zones are important for setting up trimps.


I figured out how to get it to the PM to work with HR - when you set the initial HR Zone data in GC under Tools>Options>Athlete>HR Zones - *setting the date* for these zones to something *at or before your first data file* will enable HR based Trimp, Trimp100, and Trimp Zonal to be used in the PM chart for ATL, CTL and TSB. Having the dates line up with your data enables the PM to be working with your HR and/or Power thresholds based which will change over time.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

hummina shadeeba said:


> everytime I get a gadget I lose interest in cycling. at least if you get a heart monitor you wont have spent much. Using all those machines takes from the fun of it for me and then there's not enough other motivation to sustain me. You might be more dedicated.


I wouldn't flat out say don't get a pm but, I get what you're saying. If you are not the right kind of person then no tech is worth the money. 

On the other hand, if an individual has the right mind set and wants to improve/push their own boundary of performance, then I think a PM is money well spent. Case in point would be power and fatigue profiling. IME (w/o a coach) with power one can objectively find their strengths and weaknesses much more easily than with HR. Then tailor training to work on your limiters and still improve your strengths. Not saying it can't be done with HR just not nearly as effectively imo. If I could go back in time I would have spent money on a PM before most other "upgrades" including wheels. JMO.


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## kmak (Sep 5, 2011)

I think there are a range of benefits to training with power over training on heart rate; they have been debated and discussed with reasonable frequency here. As a non-racer but someone who is trying to get better at the sport, I find riding with a power meter to be more effective; in particular, heart rate drift is a substantive issue for a lesser trained cyclist - by example, this past weekend on a one hour ride on the trainer, steady state power output at 10 minutes my heart rate was 147, at 50 minutes it was 157. And doing interval series are more challenging based on heart rate than on power.

The previous post indicated power meter benefits based on post-ride analysis; I think there are real "in-ride" benefits also.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

woodys737 said:


> I wouldn't flat out say don't get a pm but, I get what you're saying. If you are not the right kind of person then no tech is worth the money.
> 
> On the other hand, if an individual has the right mind set and wants to improve/push their own boundary of performance, then I think a PM is money well spent. Case in point would be power and fatigue profiling. IME (w/o a coach) with power one can objectively find their strengths and weaknesses much more easily than with HR. Then tailor training to work on your limiters and still improve your strengths. Not saying it can't be done with HR just not nearly as effectively imo. If I could go back in time I would have spent money on a PM before most other "upgrades" including wheels. JMO.





kmak said:


> The previous post indicated power meter benefits based on post-ride analysis; I think there are real "in-ride" benefits also.


No doubt. When I said " Then tailor training to work on your limiters and still improve your strengths" I was talking about training with power which assumes the in-ride benefits you speak of. I assumed folks understood the difference between riding a constant HR v power over time ie (power fade v cardiac drift).


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## The Human G-Nome (Aug 26, 2002)

hummina shadeeba said:


> everytime I get a gadget I lose interest in cycling. at least if you get a heart monitor you wont have spent much. Using all those machines takes from the fun of it for me and then there's not enough other motivation to sustain me. You might be more dedicated.


I agree that this is true for some people but not others. During my first year as a Cat5 all of 11 years ago, I loved looking at my HR numbers, but training with power wasn't a big thing then. Even when people started using powertaps and SRMs, it was so pricey that the average racer wasn't using one. 

At that time, I wasn't just putting away the HRM though, I was even riding with a speedometer. I did feel "free", and gauged my efforts simply on whether I was hurting the peloton or getting hurt by them. 

Now that I have a coach though for the first time ever, I am going to be training with power simply because it is much easier for him to give me advice based on power numbers than based on heart rate. In the end, it really depends on your motivations.
Sometimes, you "feel" really fast, but maybe you had a slight tail wind. Similarly, sometimes you feel slow, but maybe you had a head or cross wind that wasn't over-the-top. A powermeter will let you know whether you were really on your game or not. Your heart rate, by contrast, is likely to be all over the map depending on where you are in your training.


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