# Cons against SMP saddles



## Peter_Klim (Oct 7, 2007)

I purchased the SMP Evolution but will be exchanging it for a better fitting (larger) SMP. 

But maybe there is something else that would be better for me.

I sometimes reposition myself on the seat during the ride so that I sit where you normally sit, and sometimes so i am almost hanging just the very rear of my butt off the saddle. I think this seat won't let me do that because its profile dips so much.

Anyone try SMP seats and not like them? What were your reasons? Anyone have any reasons for not wanting their seats? If you ever considered getting one, what did you get instead?

Thanks in advance!


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## cwg_at_opc (Oct 20, 2005)

i have two EVOs, one for the road bike and one the tri-bike, so i won't be much help to you; that said, there are some days when it doesn't matter how i sit or how many times i reposition, nothing feels comfortable.
i does sound like you need to tinker with the angle of the saddle - it took about ten rides to finally find the perfect angle.

as for other saddles to recommend, you could look at the Selle Italia Signo Gel Flo, i have on on my commuter and it's been pretty good too, no complaints.


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## simonaway427 (Jul 12, 2010)

do you use shammy cream? If not, try using it.

You'll be amazing on how much of the uncomfortable feeling can be attributed to friction and chafing, and not necessarily seat pressure.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

The SMP is not like the typical saddle. You need to tilt it forward (-3 deg works best for me ) and rotate your pelvis when on it.


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## NWS Alpine (Mar 16, 2012)

SMP style saddles are great. Only real Cons to them is not having someone to help you find the right one for you. Also they are expensive.

I ride a Specialized Romin Evo Pro which is designed around the same principles.

Steve Hogg has one of the best guides I have ever seen on SMP saddles ALL ABOUT SMP’S » Bike Fit » Pelvic » Steve Hogg's Bike Fitting Website


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## Ruslan124 (Jul 30, 2012)

*Great Site Link*

Thanks for that link, very interesting site and not just for saddle advice.



NWS Alpine said:


> SMp style saddles are great. Only real Cons to them is not having someone to help you find the right one for you. Also they are expensive.
> 
> I ride a Specialized Romin Evo Pro which is designed around the same principals.
> 
> Steve Hogg has one of the best guides I have ever seen on SMP saddles


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## INeedGears (Aug 23, 2011)

Well since you asked if anyone tried them and did not like them...

I HATED the SMP saddles. Like any saddle nothing is made to fit everyone. I get that SMP makes different sizes but so do several other companies. In now way am I criticizing the quality of SMP products. If the fit please use them. But I found the saddle horribly painful. 

Before all the SMP folks flame me for some reason. I tried several positions, different angles, etc. There is no brand of saddles, no line of saddles that work for everyone. I've gone back to my Fizik Antares. The large bulky cutaway didn't work for me. 

But, that means nothing for you. You aren't me, it may be the perfect saddle for you


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## Peter_Klim (Oct 7, 2007)

thanks guys. anyone ever try this seat? It's on sale for $166. Normall $299. Selle Italia Superflow. 

This and the SMP are my top 2 choices.

I'm not into dicks. But I like dick seats.


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## marathon marke (Nov 14, 2011)

I've tried cutaway saddles and they just don't work for me. They seem to creat more problems than they address. I had been using Selle Italia SLR XP saddles for a few years, until the abrupt side edges began to cause problems on rides longer than 120 miles. The past few months (and 5,000 miles), I've been very happy with the Fizik Arione. So far rides over 200 miles and not a problem. And I'll be using it on a one-day,300 mile record attempt across Wisconsin in 2 weeks.




INeedGears said:


> Well since you asked if anyone tried them and did not like them...
> 
> I HATED the SMP saddles. Like any saddle nothing is made to fit everyone. I get that SMP makes different sizes but so do several other companies. In now way am I criticizing the quality of SMP products. If the fit please use them. But I found the saddle horribly painful.
> 
> ...


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

The SMP is a very innovative design, but it definitely isn't for everyone. They are very wide through the nose, and many people can't ride with their thighs held apart that far.


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## Peter_Klim (Oct 7, 2007)

Oh, believe me, I don't need someone to tell me how great the seat is. I already heard all the good stuff about it. I just want to make sure I don't overlook something that I may HATE about the seat and then be stuck with it (luckily I purchased it from a place that takes returns. But they don't carry the other models I'm interested in)

Thanks again everyone!



INeedGears said:


> Well since you asked if anyone tried them and did not like them...
> 
> I HATED the SMP saddles. Like any saddle nothing is made to fit everyone. I get that SMP makes different sizes but so do several other companies. In now way am I criticizing the quality of SMP products. If the fit please use them. But I found the saddle horribly painful.
> 
> ...


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## svard75 (Jun 10, 2011)

I switched to specialized saddles. They have three sizes to fit most sit bones. This was not the most noticeable difference. I recently purchased a newer model of garneau lycras and the insert made all the difference.


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## marathon marke (Nov 14, 2011)

Kontact said:


> The SMP is a very innovative design, but it definitely isn't for everyone. They are very wide through the nose, and many people can't ride with their thighs held apart that far.


I don't have huge thighs myself, and so it seems that a wider nose wouldn't bother me, but it does, whether or not the saddle has a cutout. Even the ones with just a moderdately-sized center hole places pressure in the wrong spots for me.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

marathon marke said:


> I don't have huge thighs myself, and so it seems that a wider nose wouldn't bother me, but it does, whether or not the saddle has a cutout. Even the ones with just a moderdately-sized center hole places pressure in the wrong spots for me.


I think the hip joints have as much to do with it as the thighs.


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## al0 (Jan 24, 2003)

If you tend to Deposition yourself Düring the Tode then Arione max ne a was to go. Or anther flat-profile seat.


Peter_Klim said:


> I purchased the SMP Evolution but will be exchanging it for a better fitting (larger) SMP.
> 
> But maybe there is something else that would be better for me.
> 
> ...


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

1. They are Ugly
2. There is less area to distribute your weight pressure
3. You better get a proper saddle fit, train to sit right on your seat bones and curve your back so you don't press your package into the saddle. So in other words you don't need those extreme cutouts


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

I find that flat saddles allow the different positions you are referring to.
I have been using Terry Zero Y for years and find it to be great for me.
I don't think it is made anymore but you can still buy them for around $70.
The Selle Italia SLR series are another flat saddle. I have been wanted to try one but never got around to it.
A lot of shops have demos for these.


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## Peter_Klim (Oct 7, 2007)

svard75 said:


> I switched to specialized saddles. They have three sizes to fit most sit bones. This was not the most noticeable difference. I recently purchased a newer model of garneau lycras and the insert made all the difference.


SMP comes in a few sized too. And now i know for sure their small size is not for me. I'm quite sure the large size will be too large. So if the medium size one (Lite 209) doesn't work out for me, then that will be the last time I purchase an SMP. That would be oo bad, since their seats ooze with sex appeal.


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## Peter_Klim (Oct 7, 2007)

Kontact said:


> I think the hip joints have as much to do with it as the thighs.


I'm bowl legged so i don't think a wide nose would rub against my thighs.


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## Peter_Klim (Oct 7, 2007)

jnbrown said:


> I find that flat saddles allow the different positions you are referring to.
> I have been using Terry Zero Y for years and find it to be great for me.
> I don't think it is made anymore but you can still buy them for around $70.
> The Selle Italia SLR series are another flat saddle. I have been wanted to try one but never got around to it.
> A lot of shops have demos for these.


Yeah, that's why I think the flatter Selle Italia Superflow might work better for me. Plus a lot less $$ and weight, but probably weaker due to not having the rail being a one piece that crosses over from one side over to the other in the rear like the SMPs do. 

SMP does that because the seat is wkeakend from the huge cutout. The Italia's cutout is even larger so it weakens it even more.

Large cutouts in dick seats are also beneficial to me in that makes it easier to use a torque wrench to tighten the rails to the seat post.


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## OldChipper (May 15, 2011)

I've ridden the Selle Italia "90s" Flite saddle for years. This year, I tried some cut-out saddles and the best was the SLR Superflow, but I ended up going back to the Flite except on my TT bike where I'm still using the Superflow. My wife really likes the SMP Glider (though she doesn't fit the description of the typical Glider user on Hogg's website). It's the first and only saddle that hasn't given her problems with her lady-parts.


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## Cujo25 (May 31, 2012)

Looking into an smp, new to road bikes, but can't take the pain


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## Peter_Klim (Oct 7, 2007)

OldChipper said:


> I've ridden the Selle Italia "90s" Flite saddle for years. This year, I tried some cut-out saddles and the best was the SLR Superflow, but I ended up going back to the Flite except on my TT bike where I'm still using the Superflow. My wife really likes the SMP Glider (though she doesn't fit the description of the typical Glider user on Hogg's website). It's the first and only saddle that hasn't given her problems with her lady-parts.


The Glider might work for me too. Width wise it is just a little smaller than the SMP Lite 209 and the Dynamic. The latter 2 are the same exact seat but the Lite has thicker padding just like the Glider.


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## marathon marke (Nov 14, 2011)

Salsa_Lover said:


> 1. They are Ugly
> 2. There is less area to distribute your weight pressure
> 3. You better get a proper saddle fit, train to sit right on your seat bones and curve your back so you don't press your package into the saddle. So in other words you don't need those extreme cutouts


I agree with #1, but that is just an opinion. 

#2 and #3 are so true and are why I've rarely had any kind of saddle problem with standard designs.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Salsa_Lover said:


> 1. They are Ugly
> 2. There is less area to distribute your weight pressure
> 3. You better get a proper saddle fit, train to sit right on your seat bones and curve your back so you don't press your package into the saddle. So in other words you don't need those extreme cutouts


#1) Who cares? You're riding your bike by riding it, right?

#2) If you're sitting on your sit-bones like you should, your weight distribution isn't much different...apart from soft tissue being less prone to being sat on, depending on your individual butt.

#3) 1st sentence is Captain Obvious, and you know it and holds true for any saddle SMP or otherwise. 2nd sentence is purely your own view and body geometry.


You know my butt better than me? You wanna shop for my crotch? You been studying my butt while I'm sleeping at night? Kinky. Not sure if I should rep you or not for studying my butt so much to know what saddle fits it better than I. I may need to make a pole. :ihih: :ihih: :ihih:


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## Peter_Klim (Oct 7, 2007)

marc said:


> #1) who cares? You're riding your bike by riding it, right?
> 
> #2) if you're sitting on your sit-bones like you should, your weight distribution isn't much different...apart from soft tissue being less prone to being sat on, depending on your individual butt.
> 
> ...


lol!!


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Marc said:


> #1) Who cares? You're riding your bike by riding it, right?
> 
> #2) If you're sitting on your sit-bones like you should, your weight distribution isn't much different...apart from soft tissue being less prone to being sat on, depending on your individual butt.
> 
> ...


It is simply I have already been at your place.

I had suffered of numbness but worse, of pudendal nerve inflammation, I had to stop cycling for a year on doctor orders.

When I came back to the bike I went the extreme cutout ant tilt route. It was fine about the crotch but suffered of #2, I still went numb when riding the drops for long periods.

And yes #3 solved my many years problems with the saddle, now I ride a flat saddle or a SLR without problem, drops and flat back etc.

So I guess I know a little about what I am talking about,

And BTW suggesting "proper saddle fit" is not as obvious as you think. Lots of riders don't figure it out so obviously.

A millimetre of saddle height or a slight change of riding style affect it.


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## ddimick (Aug 9, 2011)

Since you asked for cons, SMP saddle aren't particularly light. That said, the Lite 209 fits my ass very well. Best saddle I've found for 100+ mile rides.


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## Peter_Klim (Oct 7, 2007)

ddimick said:


> Since you asked for cons, SMP saddle aren't particularly light. That said, the Lite 209 fits my ass very well. Best saddle I've found for 100+ mile rides.


True. A lot of that extra weight comes from the overall legth of the rails being much longer than most saddles since the back of the rails actually connects. So it is 1 big ass rail. But it is needed since the larger than most seats cut out weakens the seat.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

I like my SMPs. I've found that I have to tilt the nose up to get the most comfy position. Since the saddle is concave, the shape that I prefer, when the saddle is level the rear of the seat pushes my sit bones forward transferring the weight to my perineum. I slide forward off the tail of the saddle. By tilting the nose up my sit bones are positioned on the rear of the saddle in just the perfect position.


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## LO^OK (Feb 1, 2008)

Peter_Klim said:


> But maybe there is something else that would be better for me.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Try an ergonomic saddle devoid of the horn like projection. It's pretty obvious the traditional bike saddle is fundamentally flawed concept - there is the anatomical evidence, and there are the countless complains from men and women. Apparently no frivolous cut outs, extravagant bents, or new surface materials can iron out the legacy kit.

The Bicycle ErgoSaddle - The Un-Saddle

Ergo the SEAT - Comfortable Bicycle Seats - innovative, comfortable, ergonomic seat that makes bicycle riding a pleasure for men and women


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Random ramblings:

My first SMP was an Evolution. It was an improvement to my '90s Flite, but I still had to reposition myself quite often to sit "right" on it. Got a terrific deal on a Full Carbon (ok, it's still an expensive saddle). Voila! The only time I notice it is if I've been off the bike for a couple of weeks or more, when a bit of bone soreness is evident in the first hour of my second ride. 

The Evolution and the Full Carbon (and other models, ref. Steve Hogg) are the same shell shape (and size), but they fit differenly. My go-to after the Evolution was the Dynamic (Steve Hogg again), but the deal was screaming as mentioned, and IIRC the Full Carbon was 120 g on my kitchen scales. I run it 3 degrees nose down.

SMPs are beautiful.


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## marathon marke (Nov 14, 2011)

LO^OK said:


> Try an ergonomic saddle devoid of the horn like projection. It's pretty obvious the traditional bike saddle is fundamentally flawed concept - there is the anatomical evidence, and there are the countless complains from men and women. Apparently no frivolous cut outs, extravagant bents, or new surface materials can iron out the legacy kit.
> 
> The Bicycle ErgoSaddle - The Un-Saddle
> 
> Ergo the SEAT - Comfortable Bicycle Seats - innovative, comfortable, ergonomic seat that makes bicycle riding a pleasure for men and women


It's pretty obvious that the traditional bike saddle is still the standard and works for the majority of people and why these "ergonomic" saddles haven't become very popular - the are not made for actual bicycle _riding_.


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## LO^OK (Feb 1, 2008)

marathon marke said:


> It's pretty obvious that the traditional bike saddle is still the standard and works for the majority of people and why these "ergonomic" saddles haven't become very popular - the are not made for actual bicycle _riding_.


Ever heard of corporate muscle and marketing propaganda (not to mention the industry inertia)? With enough of both the consumer can be duped into anything.... Cigarettes&smoking were once marketed as "The Torches of Freedom".... that says it all.


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## marathon marke (Nov 14, 2011)

LO^OK said:


> Ever heard of corporate muscle and marketing propaganda (not to mention the industry inertia)? With enough of both the consumer can be duped into anything.... Cigarettes&smoking were once marketed as "The Torches of Freedom".... that says it all.


You can choose to believe what you want, but I'm speaking from experience. I've tried both of these saddles, along with many others since I got into cycling back in 1980. I wrench in one of the largest shops in the midwest, so I get to try more saddles in one week that many people try in a lifetime. I ride 8,000 miles/year. I do ultras, often riding 200+ miles, and 400 miile weeks. I get in my speedwork with our local crit racers. The tradionally shaped saddle has been around for as long as it has because it works. Simple as that.

By the way, in reference to cut-out saddles. There is a car/motorcycle/bicycle museum in Murdo, SD where you can see 100 year old bikes with cut-out saddles. Funny how these things come around every once in a while as if they are something new. But none of them have ever lasted as long as the traditional design.


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## thirstyman (May 6, 2007)

agree on wide nose.


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## al0 (Jan 24, 2003)

Noseless saddles are not new as well - they trace back at least 50 years.

They are a trade-off between comfort and a level of a bike control - and losses in latter are to big for most of us.


marathon said:


> You can choose to believe what you want, but I'm speaking from experience. I've tried both of these saddles, along with many others since I got into cycling back in 1980. I wrench in one of the largest shops in the midwest, so I get to try more saddles in one week that many people try in a lifetime. I ride 8,000 miles/year. I do ultras, often riding 200+ miles, and 400 miile weeks. I get in my speedwork with our local crit racers. The tradionally shaped saddle has been around for as long as it has because it works. Simple as that.
> 
> By the way, in reference to cut-out saddles. There is a car/motorcycle/bicycle museum in Murdo, SD where you can see 100 year old bikes with cut-out saddles. Funny how these things come around every once in a while as if they are something new. But none of them have ever lasted as long as the traditional design.


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## marathon marke (Nov 14, 2011)

al0 said:


> Noseless saddles are not new as well - they trace back at least 50 years.
> 
> They are a trade-off between comfort and a level of a bike control - and losses in latter are to big for most of us.


Yes, I don't think some people realize how much the nose of a saddle contributes to control of the bike. But when you actually do try one out, you understand why the basic design has still lasted. It has nothing to do with "corporate muscle and marketing propaganda". 

...or even smoking.


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## al0 (Jan 24, 2003)

I guess you misunderstood about "corporate muscle and marketing propaganda ... or even smoking" - as far as I can see they were mentioned in relation to the marketing of noseless saddles, not in relation to the basic design.



marathon marke said:


> Yes, I don't think some people realize how much the nose of a saddle contributes to control of the bike. But when you actually do try one out, you understand why the basic design has still lasted. It has nothing to do with "corporate muscle and marketing propaganda".
> 
> ...or even smoking.


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## marathon marke (Nov 14, 2011)

al0 said:


> I guess you misunderstood about "corporate muscle and marketing propaganda ... or even smoking" - as far as I can see they were mentioned in relation to the marketing of noseless saddles, not in relation to the basic design.


LO^OK responded to my statement _"...these "ergonomic" saddles haven't become very popular..."_ with a question actually defending their popularity. The fact is, these saddles aren't and never were popular, since the traditional design outsells these unusual designs beyond any comparison, so the consumers (as a group) have never been duped. I think comparing the small percentage of bike customers that have been duped into the noseless saddle lie, falls way short to the huge percentage of the population who fell for the lies of smoking.


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## al0 (Jan 24, 2003)

Yes, you are right, I misunderstood.


marathon marke said:


> LO^OK responded to my statement _"...these "ergonomic" saddles haven't become very popular..."_ with a question actually defending their popularity. The fact is, these saddles aren't and never were popular, since the traditional design outsells these unusual designs beyond any comparison, so the consumers (as a group) have never been duped. I think comparing the small percentage of bike customers that have been duped into the noseless saddle lie, falls way short to the huge percentage of the population who fell for the lies of smoking.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

LO^OK said:


> Try an ergonomic saddle devoid of the horn like projection. It's pretty obvious the traditional bike saddle is fundamentally flawed concept - there is the anatomical evidence, and there are the countless complains from men and women. Apparently no frivolous cut outs, extravagant bents, or new surface materials can iron out the legacy kit.
> 
> The Bicycle ErgoSaddle - The Un-Saddle
> 
> Ergo the SEAT - Comfortable Bicycle Seats - innovative, comfortable, ergonomic seat that makes bicycle riding a pleasure for men and women


Noseless saddles aren't necessary. The only important thing is to not put weight on the nose of the saddle.

Truly noseless saddles give up too much control of the bicycle.


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## acid_rider (Nov 23, 2004)

+1 on SMP being one of the best road saddles. I tried Fizik Aliante,Gobi, Arione, Selle Italia Flite Gelflow, Bontrager, Specialized and couple of others. The SMP has been the best to date. I went from Evolution to Stratos to Dynamic over last few years. All good, for me Dynamic is overall best because its a little wider than Stratos and Evolution. I have three road bikes so there is SMP on each one. 
Read Steve Hogg blog (see earlier reply for links) re how to position the SMP correctly, this is *critical* for comfort. In my case I need to have it completely 0 degrees level nose to tail but most people need to be -1 to - 3 degrees nose down. They offer more setback than any other saddle too.


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## LO^OK (Feb 1, 2008)

marathon marke said:


> LO^OK responded to my statement _"...these "ergonomic" saddles haven't become very popular..."_ with a question actually defending their popularity. The fact is, these saddles aren't and never were popular, since the traditional design outsells these unusual designs beyond any comparison, so the consumers (as a group) have never been duped. I think comparing the small percentage of bike customers that have been duped into the noseless saddle lie, falls way short to the huge percentage of the population who fell for the lies of smoking.


Sorry, you misrepresented what I said. I gave the example of cigarette sales and smoking for the following reasons:

1. High volume of sales do not necessarily correlate with informed or rational consumer choice; often is exactly the opposite - manipulated consumer "choice" result in high volume of sales. The most glaring examples are cigarettes and junk food.

2. Such manipulation or restriction of the consumer choice cannot be achieved without corporate muscle and targeted marketing propaganda. 

Today any product that deviate from the conventions, in this case the noseless saddle, and lacks the backing of a large corporation stand absolutely no chance, whatever it's merits. Only piles of money can buy the high visibility of the pro sport, and fund "independent" studies and press coverage that enthusiastically confirm product claims. An independent inventor or a tiny business have not the means to do this, and to claim that 

_the small percentage of bike customers that have been duped into the noseless saddle lie_

is a casuist absurdity.



An apology to the OP for derailing the thread.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

The saddle nose is not the problem.

The problem is, too many riders don't have a proper saddle fit nor are trained to sit correctly on it.

The huge cutouts and nose less saddles are the crutch, not the solution.


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## ddimick (Aug 9, 2011)

Crutch or not, if the saddle is comfortable that's all I really care about. And my SMP is definitely comfortable. For me.

I don't understand why folks seem to be calling SMP saddles "noseless". They definitely have a nose.


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## ReLLiK75 (Jun 20, 2007)

The biggest thing against SMP is difficulty in getting one! I currently ride a Forma (steel rail). I want the (black) carbon rail version and it's out of stock everywhere! Same with the full carbon lite. Even the US distributor can't keep these things in stock.

To me, that says A LOT about how good these saddles really are. Plus the fact that I already ride one and can personally attest to it....


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

LO^OK said:


> Sorry, you misrepresented what I said....


So you are arguing that the only reason the noseless saddle has not taken off is that the huge coffers of the bicycle saddle industry have been unleashed to thwart the growth of their popularity?

Couldn't it just be that the classic saddle, used wisely, really is the best option for most cyclists?


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

svard75 said:


> I switched to specialized saddles. They have three sizes to fit most sit bones. This was not the most noticeable difference. I recently purchased a newer model of garneau lycras and the insert made all the difference.


This is where it comes back to the individual.
I hate Specialized anything and this includes their saddles. Specialized and me just dont work together.
I also love saddles with a flat profile like that Selle Italia on my MTB but hate them on my road bike.
I have the SMP Composit and Dynamic and love both of them (but hate them if I dont have the tilt at 4 degrees nose down).
Reading Steve Hogg's blog it would seem that the Evolution is one of his least recommended SMP's.


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## ReLLiK75 (Jun 20, 2007)

Update--Finally got my hands on a carbon rails version of the Forma. Man, this thing has been a major pain to get setup correctly on my Look 695. When I was using a Thomson sea tpost, I had it dialed in perfectly. The Look integrated seat post is weird and uses a single bolt to secure everything. Not only is it near impossible to get it tighten down enough, the saddle actually slightly rocks on the seat post which means that while you're riding you experience both negative and positive tilt, which for the SMP is NOT a good thing!

Not really sure what to do at this point as I don't want to begin the hunt for a different saddle.


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## Cujo25 (May 31, 2012)

how much did you pay for it?


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

Steve Hogg has a list of seat posts that the SMP won't work with.
This might be one?


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## virtualelvis (Jun 14, 2010)

I love my strike composite.. but I'm going to try a dynamic with carbon rails next.. 
check this out too
ALL ABOUT SMP’S » Bike Fit » Pelvic » Steve Hogg's Bike Fitting Website


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

I'd be willing to bet that a good 90% of the people who end up running these type of saddles to get comfortable are doing so because their saddle is too high to begin with.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

OnTheRivet said:


> I'd be willing to bet that a good 90% of the people who end up running these type of saddles to get comfortable are doing so because their saddle is too high to begin with.


I know I am comfortable on mine despite moving my saddle 2cm lower than what my most recent "professional" fit recommended.


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