# Best Dogma Auction yet..



## enzo269 (May 25, 2009)

Read the seller's answers to bidder's questions and his description of the Pinarello..

How sad...

PINARELLO DOGMA **2011 **54 cm | eBay


----------



## MYMOJO34 (Aug 18, 2011)

It's @ over $1100 even with no SN and someone asking flat out if it were a fake.


----------



## mgringle (May 20, 2011)

MYMOJO34 said:


> It's @ over $1100 even with no SN and someone asking flat out if it were a fake.


I assume ALL Pin's have serial numbers? No matter what? Noob here, sorry...


----------



## minoberi (Sep 19, 2011)

Funny how this seller magically is missing the seatpost too.

I think most high end bikes/models have serial numbers. However my pinarello has a serial number on the BB on a silver label.


----------



## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

You know the saying...

There's one born every minute.


----------



## Trevor Ash (May 19, 2005)

That listing actually annoys me. I saw it days ago. I sent a message to the seller giving him the benefit of the doubt and informing him it was counterfeit. He took the info well, responded with some kind words. He did not however post my message.

Then I noticed he posted the "Is it still made in Italy?" question with his long reply.

At that point I reported the listing. Two days later I saw it was still there so I reported it again. I've reported it twice, back when it was only $1000 worth of bids. Now it's going >$2000.

Ebay is terrible.


----------



## Guod (Jun 9, 2011)

I have a lowly FP2 and even it has a SN...


----------



## enzo269 (May 25, 2009)

robdamanii said:


> You know the saying...
> 
> There's one born every minute.


You're not kidding... 

*Q: Is this fake? Oct-19-11
A: WOW I didn't even know they had fake bikes. Are you sure that exists? The bike shop I took it to didn't even hint at any such thing. And the shop guys and I personally compared it to a smaller red one they had and it was identical in everything including weight, graphics, paint quality. If this frame-set is a fake, they can sell a million of them because it is identical. I will try to research this some more because I honestly can't tell. I guess my advice would be not to bid more than the price of a mid-range frame. Believe me, if you get a good enough deal it is so worth it. It is an absolutely beautiful, and well built frame-set. I really don't think anyone could make such a perfect fake. I hope this helps. *


----------



## enzo269 (May 25, 2009)

Almost $1600 bucks for a fake with shipping... When the winner goes to his LBS with that frame to have it built up and they laugh at him, he is going to demand that paypal refunds his money and have to deal with all the BS most likely.. Ebay should have pulled that auction.. Idiots.


----------



## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

enzo269 said:


> Almost $1600 bucks for a fake with shipping... When the winner goes to his LBS with that frame to have it built up and they laugh at him, he is going to demand that paypal refunds his money and have to deal with all the BS most likely.. Ebay should have pulled that auction.. Idiots.


It was over 2K so someone must of retracted their bid this morning.... Sad that eBay let this continue...


----------



## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

enzo269 said:


> You're not kidding...
> 
> *Q: Is this fake? Oct-19-11
> A: WOW I didn't even know they had fake bikes. Are you sure that exists? The bike shop I took it to didn't even hint at any such thing. And the shop guys and I personally compared it to a smaller red one they had and it was identical in everything including weight, graphics, paint quality. If this frame-set is a fake, they can sell a million of them because it is identical. I will try to research this some more because I honestly can't tell. I guess my advice would be not to bid more than the price of a mid-range frame. Believe me, if you get a good enough deal it is so worth it. It is an absolutely beautiful, and well built frame-set. I really don't think anyone could make such a perfect fake. I hope this helps. *


Read his response carefully--Never does he deny or confirm that it is a fake or real. The fact he can't or won't say tells us that 1) he is hiding something or 2) doesn't know what he's selling. Either way, you shouldn't bid or buy.


----------



## enzo269 (May 25, 2009)

HAHAHAHAHAH!!! Yet another!!! 

eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices


----------



## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

ping771 said:


> Read his response carefully--Never does he deny or confirm that it is a fake or real. The fact he can't or won't say tells us that 1) he is hiding something or 2) doesn't know what he's selling. Either way, you shouldn't bid or buy.


The more I read his auction, this guy knew it was fake from the beginning.

He starts with I'm not a bike expert, wife bought it, blah, blah, blah...

Someone asks him a question about where the frame was made and all of sudden, he's gaining a whole lot of industry experience...

scam from the beginning....


----------



## Erion929 (Jun 10, 2010)

Dave Hickey said:


> The more I read his auction, this guy knew it was fake from the beginning.
> 
> He starts with I'm not a bike expert, wife bought it, blah, blah, blah...
> 
> ...



Maybe true, but I'm not a bike expert either and I frequently Google all that kind of info if I want to research and learn. I do it all the time and get pretty schooled about subjects, especially when I'm buying something.

**


----------



## frisky (Aug 3, 2011)

Looks like he has a lot more researching to do... 

*rolls eyes*


----------



## TT1970 (Jun 2, 2009)

Round seat tube on a Dogma????


----------



## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

The seller would not admit it was a fake, he only said that it was a good bike and a good deal. He would not answer when asked directly if it was a fake or a real frame.
It is one thing to sell fakes unknowingly, or admit that they are replicas. But these two sleazy characters are knowingly selling fakes, and refusing to admit it. They avoid the issue by not answering the question.
The same guys are selling fake Cervelos, Colnagos, and Bontrager XXX carbon stems.
One day this will blow up in EBay's face. 
Sooner or later someone is going to buy a fake and sue for misrepresentation.


----------



## Pharmerbob (Jun 27, 2011)

TT1970 said:


> Round seat tube on a Dogma????


Clamp on front derailleur too........


----------



## kavalis (May 27, 2005)

*how about this one?*

I guess they wont let me post a link because im a newbie

heres the ebay item # 120804716117


----------



## razorz (Dec 28, 2011)

They are actually pretty crappy fakes, the paint looks horrible.. it looks more like injection molded plastic than carbon fiber too heh


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

here's another

PINARELLO DOGMA 60.1 2010 model 54cm - MUST SEE! | eBay

or this?

Pinarello Dogma Black on Black BoB 57.5cm | eBay


----------



## RC28 (May 9, 2002)

bikerjulio said:


> here's another
> 
> PINARELLO DOGMA 60.1 2010 model 54cm - MUST SEE! | eBay
> 
> ...


The first one is a copy. The second one is not.


----------



## razorz (Dec 28, 2011)

At least the first one admits it uses an English thread. lol

I'm just gonna start flagging these frames as counterfeit. Perhaps people will stop listing them on ebay.

The best thing would be if these morons buy the frames and sell them at a loss trying to rip people off


----------



## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

There's another fake listed as a Dogma2 that shows external cables...


----------



## IndyFabCJ (Apr 1, 2006)

razorz said:


> At least the first one admits it uses an English thread. lol
> 
> I'm just gonna start flagging these frames as counterfeit. Perhaps people will stop listing them on ebay.
> 
> The best thing would be if these morons buy the frames and sell them at a loss trying to rip people off


You have every right to call them out on it. Ebay will listen. They have to...especially if you have record of sending them information to the fact.


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/330662433107?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

$1,305.99

"winner" is the looser


----------



## razorz (Dec 28, 2011)

lol you could also bid on the auctions, win and then refuse to pay when you "discover" the frame is a fake.


----------



## RichardL (Jul 11, 2010)

I'm amazed that eBay allow these auctions to proceed! Surely anyone who would be interested in buying a Dogma would know that it should have an Italian bottom bracket?


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

I always report obvious scams when I see them. But had never looked at other reports available like this










I'd suggest the Pinarello peeps (i'm not one) report all the fakes they see.


----------



## whalenjj (Feb 22, 2007)

just to be clear to RC28, the second frame listed in his posting is my frame and, it is not a fake Pinarello Dogma. Please do your research and thanks for the negative publicity b/c it's now impacting my ability to sell a pristine Dogma. I've sold no less than $40,000 worth of high-end bikes over the past five years and not one buyer has questioned anything (certainly not authenticity).


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Do you mean the second auction I posted? If so I apologize.

RC 28 chimed in & said it was OK.

It was me that asked the question, because I'm honestly not able to differentiate any more based on pictures like yours. A pic of the drive side showing the FD fitting would have helped, and the seatpost was missing. To me, in my ignorance, those were negatives.


----------



## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

whalenjj said:


> just to be clear to RC28, the second frame listed in his posting is my frame and, it is not a fake Pinarello Dogma. Please do your research and thanks for the negative publicity b/c it's now impacting my ability to sell a pristine Dogma. I've sold no less than $40,000 worth of high-end bikes over the past five years and not one buyer has questioned anything (certainly not authenticity).



All those who claim that sales of fake Pinas don't harm anyone should think about this guy's situation. Sales of fakes harm the brand and make resale more difficult for those who buy the real thing. 

Unfortunately the pics in the BoB listing, and many others, aren't clear enough to make that distinction. Look at the Dogma2 listing up now, there's only one small pic of the headtube. The seller claims it has to be legit because there aren't any fake D2s out yet. But there are. And there are fakes with teardrop seatposts.

Frames are becaoming like Rolex watches, you wouldn't dream of buying one of those online. Too bad the actions of a bunch of jerks have ruined things for everyone else.


----------



## RC28 (May 9, 2002)

whalenjj said:


> just to be clear to RC28, the second frame listed in his posting is my frame and, it is not a fake Pinarello Dogma. Please do your research and thanks for the negative publicity b/c it's now impacting my ability to sell a pristine Dogma. I've sold no less than $40,000 worth of high-end bikes over the past five years and not one buyer has questioned anything (certainly not authenticity).



You'd better brush up on your reading skills. I was the one who said yours WAS REAL!!!!


----------



## RC28 (May 9, 2002)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> All those who claim that sales of fake Pinas don't harm anyone should think about this guy's situation. Sales of fakes harm the brand and make resale more difficult for those who buy the real thing.
> *
> Unfortunately the pics in the BoB listing, and many others, aren't clear enough to make that distinction. *Look at the Dogma2 listing up now, there's only one small pic of the headtube. The seller claims it has to be legit because there aren't any fake D2s out yet. But there are. And there are fakes with teardrop seatposts.
> 
> Frames are becaoming like Rolex watches, you wouldn't dream of buying one of those online. Too bad the actions of a bunch of jerks have ruined things for everyone else.


The pics were clear enough. That's why I said it was the real thing!!!


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

RC28 said:


> The pics were clear enough. That's why I said it was the real thing!!!


To me, a non-expert, the pics were kind of crappy for someone trying to sell a $2000+ frame.

And I expect to see both sides & more details.


----------



## RC28 (May 9, 2002)

Sorry Julio...I was just trying to address whalenjj and his misrepresentation of my comments.

But yes, like you said, to a non-expert, those pictures might be too little to properly evaluate the frame as a legit one or not. But, if you know what to look for, they are enough.

Actually a picture of the driveside would have cleared it up as the Pinarello logo on the replicas is different from the originals.


----------

