# Armstrong sucks!



## bmxhacksaw (Mar 26, 2008)

I know we still have a week to go and I'm not a particularly big LA fan but let's see, three years off, kinda old, broken collarbone a few weeks ago, in second place at the Tour. I wish I sucked that bad.


----------



## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

bmxhacksaw said:


> I know we still have a week to go and I'm not a particularly big LA fan but let's see, three years off, kinda old, broken collarbone a few weeks ago, in second place at the Tour. I wish I sucked that bad.


If I could suck that bad....I'd be a wealthy person


----------



## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

bmxhacksaw said:


> I know we still have a week to go and I'm not a particularly big LA fan but let's see, three years off, kinda old, broken collarbone a few weeks ago, in second place at the Tour. I wish I sucked that bad.


He's done good, especially for an old man. It's just the expectations were so high, his own and others. I think he's handled it magnificently. Geez, he's #2 in the toughest bike race in the world. Now, can he hold onto that position?


----------



## svrider (Jan 14, 2009)

The only criticism I have is the hype. He should have just said he was riding in support, and to see how things shake out, rather than making a play for the team lead. Having come back from retirement, with Contador having earned the right to captain the team over the past few years, it would have been the gracious thing to do.

Then to ride into 2nd from that perspective....rather than losing to Contador (the current perspective)....would have made a better story.

But one thing you can't deny. His riding is crazy impressive considering his age and recent retirement. Most riders never ride that good their entire career.


----------



## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

svrider said:


> The only criticism I have is the hype. He should have just said he was riding in support, and to see how things shake out, rather than making a play for the team lead. Having come back from retirement, with Contador having earned the right to captain the team over the past few years, it would have been the gracious thing to do.
> 
> Then to ride into 2nd from that perspective....rather than losing to Contador (the current perspective)....would have made a better story.
> 
> But one thing you can't deny. His riding is crazy impressive considering his age and recent retirement. Most riders never ride that good their entire career.


There's a lot of racing left. AC is just a kid (mentally) and is susceptible to errors associated with youth. Lance finishing in the top 5 will be a great story for most of us. Clearly, whatever the claim to "how it should have been", the interest in the sport has been heightened as the result of his return and the associated hype.


----------



## Zipp0 (Aug 19, 2008)

Contador's ride reminded my of Landis a few years back. He just rode away from everyone like they were little children. The race is far from over, but it does not look good for LA.. Anyway, I think things just got more interesting to watch.


----------



## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

bmxhacksaw said:


> I know we still have a week to go and I'm not a particularly big LA fan but let's see, *three years off, kinda old, broken collarbone a few weeks ago, in second place at the Tour. I wish I sucked that bad*.



:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


----------



## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

I have no criticism other than for the people that consider him old. Ok, he can't attack and recover like Contador but it isn't as if he is way past his prime. If I am a quarter of the athlete he is when I am 37 I will be a very happy cyclist.


----------



## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

Zipp0 said:


> Contador's ride reminded my of Landis a few years back. He just rode away from everyone like they were little children. The race is far from over, but it does not look good for LA.. Anyway, I think things just got more interesting to watch.


Contador's ride didn't remind me of Landis that just kinda grinded out a rythm like Jan Ullirch -- Contador yesterday looked like Lance going up the Alpe d'Huez in 2001. He just smoked it, putting in a great attack when Andy Schleck was a bit out of position both as to bike-lengths (about 2 or 3) and the side of the attack -- Conti shot out of the left knowing Schleck was to the right of another rider. 

Anyway, Lance finished 9th yesterday. Not bad. In a way it was sad to see a great champion not having the legs and seeing guys like Wiggins and Evans get to the line before him.

I think the thing that will nip at him most was not having those three-tenths of a second over Saxo Bank on the TTT so he would have rode in yellow for at least a few stages. That's really what he wanted out of this Tour to claim "success". No way he is getting yellow at this point and if he wins Ventoux it was because it was gifted to him.


----------



## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

The problem for Lance is that none of the stages have a lake crossing.

If one did, he'd simply ride on water and leave everyone behind. While simultaneously curing cancer. And ending world hunger.


----------



## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Is there nothing between "He is the greatest thing suince sliced bread" & "He sucks".

This is not the Tour de lance after all.

len


----------



## TiBike (Aug 2, 2004)

*who knows...*

...you never know what the old man may still have in his bag of tricks. He's not going to win the tour but I'll bet he wouldn't mind a stage. Hell, even if he doesn't win a stage...three years out of competition, 37, broken collar bone two months ago, and in second place in the Tour. Not too shabby.


----------



## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

svrider said:


> The only criticism I have is the hype.


I still think the hype is all part of the plan. Draw more media attention and take some of the pressure off Conty. Misdirection is the base of many a magic trick.


----------



## chuckice (Aug 25, 2004)

jsedlak said:


> I have no criticism other than for the people that consider him old. Ok, he can't attack and recover like Contador but it isn't as if he is way past his prime. If I am a quarter of the athlete he is when I am 37 I will be a very happy cyclist.


He actually is way past his prime for major race GC cycling...


----------



## Zipp0 (Aug 19, 2008)

fornaca68 said:


> and if he wins Ventoux it was because it was gifted to him.


Maybe it will be, but I wonder if he will resent the gift like Pantani?

Anyway, still lots of racing to go. At least the tour is exciting to watch from here on out.:thumbsup:


----------



## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

This board needs an All About Armstrong forum for all the fans that come out this time of the year.


----------



## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

So, this is the media spin on Lance's soon-to-be completed failed bid for an 8th Tour.


----------



## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

SwiftSolo said:


> There's a lot of racing left. AC is just a kid (mentally) and is susceptible to errors associated with youth. Lance finishing in the top 5 will be a great story for most of us. Clearly, whatever the claim to "how it should have been", the interest in the sport has been heightened as the result of his return and the associated hype.


Let's see, Contador didn't win Paris-Nice nor the Dauphiné this year and all hell breaks loose. He's too young, he's not mentally tough, blah-blah-blah. (BTW this is not directed at you SwiftSolo, just Lance's parrots in the mainstream media). The man won the TdF at age 24 and last year he does the Giro-Vuelta double. The way I see it you put him in Caisse d'Epargne or Saxo Bank colors and he still comes out on top.


----------



## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

For the guy to be 37, coming back after 3 years off and being able to hang is remarkable.


----------



## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

There is absolutely no way Armstrong thought that he could be beaten in this year's TdF. He has an ego the size of the Planet. The fact that he was outclassed by Contador yesterday means that he (and all his fans) have to save face. Hence all the "good for an old man" spin.


----------



## jhamlin38 (Oct 29, 2005)

How bout another spin the this. The real story is the potential for Alberto Contador to win one or two Grand Tours every year for the next 10 years, and be, without question, the best GT rider EVER. He's only 25 and has won all three, plus another tour, as is stands. 
I think contador is better than Lance was in his prime, cause his success is happening at a younger age. 
I hope he stays clear of Scandal, stays humble, and gives back somehow.


----------



## svrider (Jan 14, 2009)

SwiftSolo said:


> the interest in the sport has been heightened as the result of his return and the associated hype.


There is no interest in the sport. There is only an interest in Lance. Its is pure hype....and will die down when he retires again. I'll be glad when that time comes. Because it's not cycling coverage its Lance coverage.


----------



## El Guapo (Dec 10, 2002)

*We have a winner....*



jd3 said:


> I still think the hype is all part of the plan. Draw more media attention and take some of the pressure off Conty. Misdirection is the base of many a magic trick.


I am in total agreement here. I think this was all part of the plan. If Armstrong said he was simply coming to the Tour to ride in support of AC, rival teams would have been able to focus on eliminating just one threat. With LA stating his aim of overall victory, rival teams HAVE to focus on two threats with two additional viable threats beyond that (Kloden and Leipheimer - prior to the latter's unfortunate DNF).

I think that even now rival teams are wondering...ok, AC is in the maillot, Lance is stating he will support him, but..."what if?" The guy won 7 TdFs. LA can TT and has a stated desire on multiple occasions of wanting to win on the Ventoux.

This reminds me a little of how some predators hunt in packs. One lures the attention of the prey by overtly remaining visible, the other(s) pounce once the prey's attention is diverted.

Maybe that's a bit grand of me to assume. Lance is, afterall, 37. His abilities may have been grossly exaggerated. However, I will reserve that judgement until the "fat lady" sings.

Either way, this week will be fun!


----------



## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

ya know, he might be better tahn Lance at his prime. AC has slowly but surely become a GREAT tt'er. When did that happen? It seems like yesterday we were talkin about his achilles heel in the TT. 
I wish we could actually see numbers for the climb yesterday, like av speed, wattage, power, etc... For all we know Lance performed at par with his other tours, but AC is frickin Marco Pantani. Lance was never the best climber, just great. Several people including Bruyneel have said Lance's "numbers" are better than 03'. For what thats worth. Its intriguing to be sure. maybe lance hasnt dropped off, AC is just Lance + off the chart climber = unbeatable.


----------



## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

MG537 said:


> Let's see, Contador didn't win Paris-Nice nor the Dauphiné this year and all hell breaks loose. He's too young, he's not mentally tough, blah-blah-blah. (BTW this is not directed at you SwiftSolo, just Lance's parrots in the mainstream media). The man won the TdF at age 24 and last year he does the Giro-Vuelta double. The way I see it you put him in Caisse d'Epargne or Saxo Bank colors and he still comes out on top.



+1000, only the fifth rider to win all three grand tours, 26 YO, his career could dwarf Lance's by the time he is through, saying he is "just a kid mentally" is a little strange. THe best thing Lance does is bring more cancer awareness, and if it gets someone to dust off their Trek that they bought five years ago, all the better. But the race was set when AC first pounded the lead group last week to move into second. THe Versus commentary is atrocious and offensive IMO.

b21


----------



## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

Zipp0 said:


> Maybe it will be, but I wonder if he will resent the gift like Pantani?
> 
> Anyway, still lots of racing to go. At least the tour is exciting to watch from here on out.:thumbsup:


No one is going to gift Lance a stage


----------



## iamnotfilip (Jul 9, 2007)

Lance is good, but he also has a great team to pull him along. He's probably in the top 20 overall cyclists pound for pound (I rate classics guys such as Cancellara ahead of him) but probably not in the top ten. Still amazing for a his age, and if you took away the hype around it and his ego, his accomplishments would stand on its own and be remarkable and you wouldn't have to justify to yourself that Lance did OK for his age.

I think Contador is better then Lance ever was though. I also think it was a mistake for Lance to come out and try to challenge Contador, because it does make him a bit of a sore looser.
Sorry.


----------



## Joemero (Jul 19, 2008)

Anything can happen this week...what if Contador BONKS like he did at Paris-Nice this year? Lance said he'll support Contador as long as Contador is in the running to win. if Contador crashes or bonks, I think the logical thing for Lance will be to try and win it. Cycling can be so unpredictable sometimes. Why so many Lance haters, he did win 7 tdfs IN A ROW you know.


----------



## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

albert owen said:


> There is absolutely no way Armstrong thought that he could be beaten in this year's TdF. He has an ego the size of the Planet. The fact that he was outclassed by Contador yesterday means that he (and all his fans) have to save face. Hence all the "good for an old man" spin.


Armstrong has huge ego but he is also quite experienced and smart, and he knows his body quite well. After Tour of California, Giro and other races he would have a good idea where his body is at.

I suspect he knew Contador will be the hands-down team leader. But the way the Tour is laid out, why not draw some attention to himself, stir controversy, make press talk about team rivalry? This is where his ego comes in, but I think if I was a few seconds from yellow, I would play it up as well, especially if I knew it won't last till the end.

In any case it's a no brainer - good for the team visibility, good for sponsors, good for the sport, good for Armstrong foundation, and of course good for LA himself. The press is too naive to buy into the hype, but that's what good PR player like LA knows how to do well - keep himself in the news cycle - otherwise you are irrelevant.


----------



## BuenosAires (Apr 3, 2004)

I think it's a bit premature to state that Contador is better than Lance ever was. He has only won one stage this year and he's one bad day away from falling off the podium. I don't think that will happen but crowning him the greatest ever is a bit rediculous at this point.


----------



## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

BuenosAires said:


> I think it's a bit premature to state that Contador is better than Lance ever was. He has only won one stage this year and he's one bad day away from falling off the podium. I don't think that will happen but crowning him the greatest ever is a bit rediculous at this point.


Nobody said he is the greatest ever. THey said at 26, with 3 grand tour wins and a 4th likely, he has the potential to be one of the greatest ever. Personally if he wins this Tour, I would alreaady match his GT wins against Lance, who personally picked his team, prepared and raced solely in the TDF, and had a team that probably took AT LEAST as much PED as any other team.

b21


----------



## kef3844 (May 30, 2008)

BuenosAires said:


> I think it's a bit premature to state that Contador is better than Lance ever was. He has only won one stage this year and he's one bad day away from falling off the podium. I don't think that will happen but crowning him the greatest ever is a bit rediculous at this point.



Yes of course it is way to early to be making such declarations. However AC has won all 3 major grand tours and LA only rode the TDF, and he had always had 100% commitment from his ENTIRE team. 

Armstrong got nice slice of humble pie yesterday and it was clear he did not like it.


----------



## harlond (May 30, 2005)

bigmig19 said:


> Lance was never the best climber, just great. Several people including Bruyneel have said Lance's "numbers" are better than 03'. For what thats worth. Its intriguing to be sure. maybe lance hasnt dropped off, AC is just Lance + off the chart climber = unbeatable.


Out of curiousity, who was a better climber than LA in the seven years he was winning the TdF?


----------



## Joemero (Jul 19, 2008)

Again...Contador is human and he showed that by BONKING at Paris-Nice. So anything can happen


----------



## BuenosAires (Apr 3, 2004)

barry1021 said:


> Nobody said he is the greatest ever. THey said at 26, with 3 grand tour wins and a 4th likely, he has the potential to be one of the greatest ever. Personally if he wins this Tour, I would alreaady match his GT wins against Lance, who personally picked his team, prepared and raced solely in the TDF, and had a team that probably took AT LEAST as much PED as any other team.
> 
> b21


Actually, iamnotflip said that Contador is better than Lance ever was. That's what i was referring to.


----------



## BuenosAires (Apr 3, 2004)

barry1021 said:


> Nobody said he is the greatest ever. THey said at 26, with 3 grand tour wins and a 4th likely, he has the potential to be one of the greatest ever. Personally if he wins this Tour, I would alreaady match his GT wins against Lance, who personally picked his team, prepared and raced solely in the TDF, and had a team that probably took AT LEAST as much PED as any other team.
> 
> b21


I disagree. Winning the Giro and Vuelta is not the same as winning the Tour. Impressive, yes, but the level of competition at those races is not the same.


----------



## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

El Guapo said:


> I am in total agreement here. I think this was all part of the plan. If Armstrong said he was simply coming to the Tour to ride in support of AC, rival teams would have been able to focus on eliminating just one threat. With LA stating his aim of overall victory, rival teams HAVE to focus on two threats with two additional viable threats beyond that (Kloden and Leipheimer - prior to the latter's unfortunate DNF).


I find that to be a but of revisionist nonsense. Everything about LA's history and personality and his pre-Tour manuverings suggest he came to win. It's a lovely spin, and if someone other than LA had been involved, it might be halfway believeable.


----------



## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

albert owen said:


> There is absolutely no way Armstrong thought that he could be beaten in this year's TdF. He has an ego the size of the Planet. The fact that he was outclassed by Contador yesterday means that he (and all his fans) have to save face. Hence all the "good for an old man" spin.





Bzzz... bzzzz..... bzz.

Bzzzzz. bzz.. bzz SWAT.


----------



## cheddarlove (Oct 17, 2005)

Lance said he will race the Tour next year also. I'll be curious to see his training program then! 
Tour of Cali, Tour of Gila, Nevada City crit and a sprinkling of mountain bike races and then the Giro after a broken clavicle aren't really the type's of races he used to do when training for the Tour. 
Amstel Gold, Dauphine and endless days in the mountains is what he used to do! 
People that follow racing know that the domestic races aren't as fast as the european races. I think he's lacking the proper training. Just my thoughts.


----------



## ronbo613 (Jan 19, 2009)

It's not over yet; let's see how it goes. Plenty of good riders and plenty of chances to make a mistake.


----------



## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

BuenosAires said:


> I think it's a bit premature to state that Contador is better than Lance ever was. He has only won one stage this year and he's one bad day away from falling off the podium. I don't think that will happen but crowning him the greatest ever is a bit rediculous at this point.


Not disagreeing with you, I would just like to add that 7 times the TdF is a great feat. However to be considered the greatest ever one will have to surpass the following record.

5 TdF victories (also 5 times green jersey winner)
5 Giro d'Italia victories (once maglia ciclamino/points winner)
1 Vuelta a Espana (also points jersey winner)

1 time amateur world champion
3 times professional world champion

7 times Milan-San Remo 
2 times Tour of Flanders 
3 times Gent-Wevelgem
3 times Paris-Roubaix
5 times Liege-Bastogne-Liege
3 times Fleche Wallone
2 times Amstel Gold
2 times tour of Lombardy

I'll let you all guess who this record belongs to.


----------



## masterken911 (Jun 17, 2009)

stage 20 ( mt. ventoux ) could be the one lance is targeting since that's only mountain top stage he hasn't won. still i think ac, sastre and a. schleck finish in 1-2-3.


----------



## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*the hour*



MG537 said:


> Not disagreeing with you, I would just like to add that 7 times the TdF is a great feat. However to be considered the greatest ever one will have to surpass the following record.
> 
> 5 TdF victories (also 5 times green jersey winner)
> 5 Giro d'Italia victories (once maglia ciclamino/points winner)
> ...


Plus, "the hour." Said to have been the most he ever hurt on the bike.


----------



## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Bzzz... bzzzz..... bzz.
> 
> Bzzzzz. bzz.. bzz SWAT.


Missed


----------



## Pbnj (Jul 13, 2009)

Wookiebiker said:


> If I could suck that bad....I'd be a wealthy person



+1000 :thumbsup:


----------



## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

FondriestFan said:


> This board needs an All About Armstrong forum for all the fans that come out this time of the year.


And yet you read _and_ post in the thread. . . .


----------



## Joemero (Jul 19, 2008)

ronbo613 said:


> It's not over yet; let's see how it goes. Plenty of good riders and plenty of chances to make a mistake.


CORRECT. Contador could BONK again, or even crash, or get the stomach flu like Boonen ;-)


----------



## Joemero (Jul 19, 2008)

MG537 said:


> Not disagreeing with you, I would just like to add that 7 times the TdF is a great feat. However to be considered the greatest ever one will have to surpass the following record.
> 
> 5 TdF victories (also 5 times green jersey winner)
> 5 Giro d'Italia victories (once maglia ciclamino/points winner)
> ...


Eddy Merckx?


----------



## macalu (Jan 16, 2003)

Lance is riding a very good tour, especially given his age and his coming back from three years without racing. But 37 is old for a grand tour rider, and maybe expectations, including his own were not realistic. His climbing and his time trialing are not what they once were. I would be surprised to see him win a stage or finish on the podium in Paris. But of course he is not riding the Tour in support; he is competing whatever face he puts on it.


----------



## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

Joemero said:


> CORRECT. Contador could BONK again, or even crash, or get the stomach flu like Boonen ;-)


Yea, even so, Kloden is next in heir to the thrown for astana, not armstrong. Armstrong looked like he was going to collapse on that climb yesterday, with Kloden patiently nursing him up. Kloden lost a lot of time for that.


----------



## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

MG537 said:


> ....
> I'll let you all guess who this record belongs to.


I have never felt the comparisons with Merckx are apt. Training is far more sophisticated now. The whole concept of periodization, training for a specific type of race and "peaking" at a specific time simply didn't exist then (at least not in cycling). Training for a one day classic in the spring is very different than training for a three week stage race in July.


----------



## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

fprb said:


> question is now, can Lance hold 2nd place?


no way.

He will be out of the top 3 on Sat. morning and out of the top 5 on Sat. evening.


----------



## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

FondriestFan said:


> This board needs an All About Armstrong forum for all the fans that come out this time of the year.



While we are at it lets offer an "Armstrong Haters" forum club so you haters can gorge yourselves in all things anti-Lance.


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Of course, let's not forget, maybe everyone save for the top 5 in the GC (excluding him) and Levi will wish they can suck on the bike as bad as Armstrong is.


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

svrider said:


> The only criticism I have is the hype. He should have just said he was riding in support, and to see how things shake out, rather than making a play for the team lead. Having come back from retirement, with Contador having earned the right to captain the team over the past few years, it would have been the gracious thing to do.
> 
> Then to ride into 2nd from that perspective....rather than losing to Contador (the current perspective)....would have made a better story.
> 
> But one thing you can't deny. His riding is crazy impressive considering his age and recent retirement. Most riders never ride that good their entire career.


Erm.... The hype wasn't what he brought upon himself. It's more of what people expect him to do because of his history in this race. The race he owns in all reality.

Of course he was gonna say he's going for it. It's him. That winning and confident mentality, along with the ability be a cerebral assassin, are qualities that made his opponents know they're done and that he was gonna win and only 2nd was up for grabs. It all comes as a package - Contador is nowhere near that sharp mentally for sure.

Lance won his Tours even before he raced some of them in fact. The way Postal pulled the train along and shed everyone such that people asked them to slow down. The intensity with which he mind read the others and rode and trained. The mind reading he had of others and all. The confidence he exuded when he rode such that people KNEW he was gonna win or at least kill their legs.

It's that killer instinct, that confidence and all that make him a great Tour rider. And he won 7, yes. But it's 7 in a ROW. That's the thing. Only a few others won 5 in a row. Add the variables that could have gone wrong, there you have it - no way he was gonna play down his own chances even if he knew before hand. The minute someone else says Astana are the strongest team already means that they've lost part of the battle. 

So in the essence, there's nothing else he should have said.


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

albert owen said:


> There is absolutely no way Armstrong thought that he could be beaten in this year's TdF. He has an ego the size of the Planet. The fact that he was outclassed by Contador yesterday means that he (and all his fans) have to save face. Hence all the "good for an old man" spin.


Perhaps. Yes, he has a huge ego. He's confident and bordering on arrogant maybe. But great champions, winners, etc, they have this aspect of them called mind games. You win the Tour by being the best rider but also the best in the mental checkers game. 

You can NEVER win if you don't believe in yourself that much. You can NEVER win if you doubt yourself from the start because you'll always be afraid to go harder for fear of blowing up etc.

Nothing wrong IMO.


----------

