# Why do we spend so much money for a bicycle?



## dasho (Apr 8, 2002)

This is mostly for riders who have been cycling for many years and have had several different bikes in different price ranges. 

I wonder why someone (myself included) spends 3 or 4 times as much money for say, a carbon Cervelo as opposed to an aluminum Fuji if both have identical components and weigh about the same? There has to be a point/price of diminishing returns where the extra cost isn't buying more performance etc. 

In my case, I bought because of what I've read or heard from others and/or how the bike looks. I've had several bikes in different price ranges and different materials and can't say I could tell much difference between them. But I'm not a racer or even a 5-10k a year rider. 

If it were possible to ride a bike blindfolded, I wonder if one could tell much difference between the Cervelo and Fuji.

So I guess my question is can you really tell the difference in your high end bike and feel it is worth the extra money or have you bought it just because you can?


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

Just cause. I don't need to justify my purchases to anyone (other than my wife, and she understands - custom Ti Serotta that she rides).


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## e34john (May 31, 2010)

No idea. But I know I have a problem. My bike cost twice as much as my last car. And I am not even a serious cyclist, haven't even rode since I was kid.


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## calle_betis (Jun 30, 2006)

Why do people buy a Volvo rather than a Toyota Yaris? Or a Ferrari rather than a Mustang/Corvette? Because we have the money, want something that is fab to ride and because it makes us feel good when we ride it?


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## gr8blues (Nov 20, 2009)

I wonder the same thing, luckily I don't have a lot of money to spend so I ride a bike that is quite a bit less expensive than most here. In the 60's when I started riding, bikes were not nearly as pricey compared to now. We did the same rides as people are doing today and had lots of fun while doing it. I guess most think to be cool you have to have the latest hot stuff so have at it if you can afford it, but it is possible to have fun and go fairly fast without going into debt.


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## pianopiano (Jun 4, 2005)

*live to ride, ride to live*

Because I LOVE to ride my bicycle! It makes me very, very happy! It's worth every penny! :thumbsup:


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## BunnV (Sep 7, 2005)

Because any day now I could be dead.
Before that happens, I want to own the things that appeal to me the most, not the most practical things! 
The pedals on my road bike cost more than my wifes entire Kona hard tail mountain bike!


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

A lot of this has to do with manufactures constantly tweaking something that doesn't need to be tweaked.

The upgrade explosion that is occuring in cycling and the money these companies are demanding for their product reminds me of the housing bubble that recently popped. People are spending far more for a product that pretty much works the same way it did twenty years ago...only it's a little lighter, little more comfy and a whole lot more blingy.

Ultimately cycling and endurance sports in general are the past times of those that tend to be in the higher income brackets. If you're earning $10K a month or more, and there are plenty of guys on this forum that do, then a $5K bike is nothing. If however you're earning the national average which is about $2400/month and you have bills to pay then you'll end up coming up short in some other aspect of your life.

I disagree with the last poster that mentioned that it makes a person happy to spend money. I would dare say that owning less is a far more rewarding path to follow in life. Those cultures that I consider more refined or spiritual seem to have a better grasp on what adds up to long term happiness and many of those people don't have a job or income in the sense of what we think about in the west. 

The west and slowly the east that are adopting our ways are also starting to get some of our mental illnesses, the constant turbulant lifestyles, the never good enough, keeping up with those around you, and working yourself into an early grave for nothing.

For those that have a problem and I did have this very problem as I race and continue to do so, I got rid of my television a few months ago, disconnected from the internet and only use a computer at work. I no longer have to look at what wheelset cavendish is using or the latest greatest frames on the market. When I get a catologue in the mail I throw it in the trash without looking at it. It's freed me up, I just go out and train and ride and enjoy myself without having to think about upgrading to something that just empties my pockets and does nothing for my overall fitness.


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## zakyma (Jan 25, 2010)

The feel of the bike and the look made us spend this amount of money. I like carbon as it rides better on the road. I have madone 2010 5 series with aero wheels 50 mm. I used these wheels for racing and have other set for training. 

My bike is hand made in US livestrong paint and I like it more day after day. I also has SRM powermeter Sram red and it is the most expensive one but I know that I am paying this amount of money as it is durable and trouble free. 

You can still drive lexus but when you drive a german car it is totally a new feel, that is why we purchase expensive bikes.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

The truth is the guy with the strongest legs wins the race. I've ridden with National Masters Champions that compete internationally and some of them have been on real clunkers during our training rides. 

The sad fact is though they put a hurt on me like no one else while I was perched on a $5K bike and they were on a $1200 bike or even less. 

It's the legs and only the legs that matter. All this other stuff about how the bike looks is sissy.


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## Tommy Walker (Aug 14, 2009)

I used to ask that question, actually _*why would*_ but now I understand. I enjoy riding, so I have a bike I enjoy. I could ride a Fuji with identical components, but I didn't have the same feeling about the Fuji as I did with my Cervelo, so I was willing to spend about $1,000 more. It wasn't just the ride, the sales experience also played into it as well. The store where I purchased my Cervelo spent hours with me on a variety of aspects (fitting, explaing the bike, components and other accesories), the store where I tested a Fuji said "_this one fits OK_".

I also contend that when you do an item by item comparison on most bikes, they are pretty close in rice range, meaning you get what you pay for. Example, last night I was in a bike shop and saw a nice GT with Ultegra FD and RD, but it had Tektro brakes, Nothing wrong with Tektro brakes but they are not the same cost wise as Ultegra brakes, so this GT that was $2,000 and compared to most $3,000 bikes, when you look at the brakes, the saddle, the handle bars, the seat post and the crank you would be very close to that $3,000 bike in price if you swapped all that out to match the components.

I have reached a point on my bike where I love everything from my speedplays, to my Cateye V2C computer, to my carbon cages, to my Giro Ionos Helmet, to my Sidi shoes and my Oakley sunglasses. I there, enjoying it and really don't want much more at this time. Nervanna.


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## mpk1996 (May 11, 2007)

heathb said:


> The truth is the guy with the strongest legs wins the race. I've ridden with National Masters Champions that compete internationally and some of them have been on real clunkers during our training rides.
> 
> The sad fact is though they put a hurt on me like no one else while I was perched on a $5K bike and they were on a $1200 bike or even less.
> 
> It's the legs and only the legs that matter. All this other stuff about how the bike looks is sissy.



sure, they put a hurt on you, but what do the race on when they have to race against someone that is of their own ability. you didn't see anyone in the tour or any pro race for that mater on low end or old bikes. and its not just because of the sponsers, the bikes these days are faster.

we spend money on bike for the same reason people buy expensive jewlery or watches. we spend our money on what we like and that is all that needs to be said.


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## ETWN Stu (Feb 15, 2007)

Because I dont piss my money up against the wall on Friday or Saturday night.


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## vets1173 (Jul 30, 2009)

For me, it's a comfort issue. I can ride all day on my Roubaix, but when I go to my older bike or another from a shop (rented a bike this summer on vacation), I felt uncomfortable, rough ride, sore afterward. I could get an entry level Roubaix cheaper, but by the time you build it up with "identical components" it would end up as expensive with a lesser frame.


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## Reynolds531 (Nov 8, 2002)

I'd be embarrassed to ride bike worth more than $1200.


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## waterford48 (Apr 9, 2009)

It is a hobby and a not very expensive hobby at that when compared to boating, airplanes, sports cars, exotic vacations or multiple life partners. Buying, selling and trading bicycle equipment, working on my bikes and riding are a source of entertainment for me. I have a few bikes but drive an old car and am frugal in most other areas of my life. If this hobby took time or money away from my family or job, it would be a problem. If having a nice bicycle gets you outdoors and riding, then it improves your health and longevity. Rather than be critical of others I seek balance in my own life.


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## paul.mtl (Sep 13, 2010)

e34john said:


> My bike cost twice as much as my last car.


What !  

Wow. Never thought to buy a _velomobile_ for this price ?


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

why spend money on anything that's not needed for bare survival?

it's called self-gratification. we exercise it on every discretionary purchase.

you don't need a bike to simply exist. why buy one at any price? once you justify owning one, then the cost is irrelevant.


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

dasho said:


> Why do we spend so much money for a bicycle?


Reminds me of the old joke...

Q: Why is a divorce so expensive?
A: Because it's worth it!


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## Erion929 (Jun 10, 2010)

Reynolds531 said:


> I'd be embarrassed to ride bike worth more than $1200.



I guess there's always ONE in every crowd  

**


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## Hooben (Aug 22, 2004)

I spend so much money on my bicycle, because my car is only worth about 500 bucks.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Because we're dead a *LONG TIME*. If we can't go through the one life we have pleasing ourselves who ARE we going to please?

I run everything through these criteria. If it meets all three; it's mine.


Do I want it?
Can I afford it?
Is my wife in agreement?


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## largegiant04 (Jun 23, 2004)

resale value will be a lot higher on the cervelo than the fuji. Its just a point to consider.


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## roadfix (Jun 20, 2006)

As mentioned, this applies to any other hobby out there. If you're into gadgets, you'll spend money, whether you need them or not.


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## dgeesaman (Jun 9, 2010)

largegiant04 said:


> resale value will be a lot higher on the cervelo than the fuji. Its just a point to consider.


I should hope the Cervelo has a higher resale value, it costs 3X as much new.

Of course the Cervelo will depreciate more than the Fuji if you consider the raw numbers.


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## black cross (May 15, 2006)

I just went to the state fair. Saw what people need to be into horses. Truck, trailer, feed, tack, etc. Makes my $6,000 Giant tcr pretty affordable.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

It's all what your are into. I wouldn't spend over $300 for a complete set of golf clubs. If I had the money, I would not hesitate to spend 5 grand on a road bike. Add another 5 grand for a mountain bike, and 10 grand for a couple more bikes. That's what my truck cost, and I ride as many miles as I put on my truck.
I have a few hobbies, if you think bicycling is expensive, try racing motorcycles.


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

nOOky said:


> I have a few hobbies, if you think bicycling is expensive, try racing motorcycles.


Until I started cave diving I had no idea that there was such thing as a $1,200 flashlight. Much less that I needed two of them.

:blush2:


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## dgeesaman (Jun 9, 2010)

black cross said:


> I just went to the state fair. Saw what people need to be into horses. Truck, trailer, feed, tack, etc. Makes my $6,000 Giant tcr pretty affordable.


We have two horses and you're absolutely right. However my wife spends so much on horses that if I feel like buying something for myself the last thing she'll do is object. 

Dave


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## Dereck (Jan 31, 2005)

Fortunately, the world is well-staffed by 'consumers' trained to buy 'products'.

Especially in the US, where it seems to drive the economy 

A fine example is how some folk have been trained to line up outside a store for days to buy a new model of telephone.

In some respects, the world would be a nicer place if we did that with bikes too.

Seriously, while not many of us can go buy that supercar we kid our buddies about, we cyclists can realistically get some serious race-worthy machinery. Even if we lack serious race-worthy legs to drive it 

World's full of differing opinions. Some of us like to have the new toys, 'just because'. Some don't. If I get delusions about buying lots of bikes - not that I have anywhere to put them these days, - I recall a racer from my home town back when I took this cycling thing seriously.

We knew what his frame was - the brushed domestic gloss paint job couldn't hide the 'Curly Hetchins' rear stays. He owned that bike and three sets of wheels. One for racing, one for training and the third for cyclo-cross. The cross and training wheels also got used for his day job - he was a mailman and prefered to use his ancient Hetchins vice the clunker the post office issued him. Cleaning and Maintenance were usually by his embarrassed clubmates.

He was a first cat roady and didn't embarrass himself in the masses of time trials held in England back then. But that was all out of season keep-fit for his favourite - cyclo cross, at which he was up the top in the country.

Some things you just can't buy...

My present rides are an Ultegra rigged Gunnar Sport, which has done everything from shopping to a criterium, and a custom geometry lugged steel Bob Jackson. Everything on them, colour and components, is what I chose, not some 'bike in a box' package that a bike shop wanted me to buy and get out the door.

That freedom is worth having...

Regards

Dereck


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

dasho said:


> So I guess my question is can you really tell the difference in your high end bike and feel it is worth the extra money or have you bought it just because you can?



Getting back to your main question, I can tell plenty of difference between my first low-end bike and my current high-end bike. Of course, my high-end bike is easily someone else's low-end, and vice-versa. I agree with others too that cycling is a fairly inexpensive hobby compared to most. I know rodeo guys/girls who have tens-of-thousands invested in all that is required for that hobby, muscle car fanatics who spend well over $100k on their cars, and recreational golfers who pay between $50k to $100k per year for their "exclusive" memberships. My cycling expenses don't even begin to compare to these numbers.


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## ohvrolla (Aug 2, 2009)

It's no secret that material possessions are directly correlated with self worth.


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## SM-Rider (May 2, 2007)

*I'm with you*

I continue to work toward simplifying life more and more too. It is indeed a better route to a happy life.





heathb said:


> A lot of this has to do with manufactures constantly tweaking something that doesn't need to be tweaked.
> 
> The upgrade explosion that is occuring in cycling and the money these companies are demanding for their product reminds me of the housing bubble that recently popped. People are spending far more for a product that pretty much works the same way it did twenty years ago...only it's a little lighter, little more comfy and a whole lot more blingy.
> 
> ...


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## Trek2.3 (Sep 13, 2009)

I could have bought a second Porsche, I bought a Trek Madone instead. That's bad?


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

heathb said:


> It's the legs and only the legs that matter. All this other stuff about how the bike looks is sissy.


Can we call you Hair Shirt Heath?:idea:


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

Because the bikes I choose have certain things I want - size, color, shape, geometry, brand prestige.

You want certain things, you pay for them.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

heathb said:


> I disagree with the last poster that mentioned that it makes a person happy to spend money.


Of course it does, it's just not the key to happiness. I love buying things and I love the feeling I get while I'm using them. It's one tiny aspect of my version of full life. Maybe not yours.



heathb said:


> I would dare say that owning less is a far more rewarding path to follow in life.


Is it really? Why? The stuff I have doesn't yell at me when I don't use it. Once it's bought and if gets ignored, who is the loser? An inanimate object? A lot of things is only a problem if they require attention, then sure, less can be better?



heathb said:


> Those cultures that I consider more refined or spiritual seem to have a better grasp on what adds up to long term happiness and many of those people don't have a job or income in the sense of what we think about in the west.
> Ts.


What cultures would those be?

I had incredible eye-opening experience a couple of years back. I was out hiking in rural coastal China and came down into a small village on the seashore. Got talking with some of the people and they told me that a big Japanese hotel company had bought the land and that they were being relocated into the city. To a high rise.

I went straight to my National Geographic moment and said, "Boo hoo, I'm so sad for you." One woman replied "Don't be sad, for the first time in my life I'm going to have a toilet in my house, running water and electricity"

I think a lot of we westerners forget that the ascetic religions - Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism - sprang from abject poverty, as a way to convince people that suffering was okay because there is a big reward at the final bus station.

I'll bet you $10 that anyone in those "together cultures" would trade places with you in 10 nanoseconds.


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## cyclust (Sep 8, 2004)

No greens fees, no ski lift pass, no court fees, no gas expense, no bullets, no bait, just a few bottle of Gatorade. Everybody's got their drug. Cycing is mine.


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## Doug B (Sep 11, 2009)

RJP Diver said:


> Until I started cave diving I had no idea that there was such thing as a $1,200 flashlight. Much less that I needed two of them.
> 
> :blush2:


I hear ya brother. The jewel encrused titanium housing couple with the ba-jillion watt light bulb isn't worth the money for me, so I carry two $100 lights, and two of the $50 backup lights...


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## Lawfarm (Jun 4, 2010)

Using the original example of a same-weight aluminum frame versus carbon frame, the primary difference I'd pay more (and did pay more) for a CF frame is the ride. My CF bike takes bumps, jolts, potholes, and irregularities so much more comfortably than did my previous aluminum bike. Can an aluminum bike be built to have some give? Sure. Can a CF bike be built too stiff? Sure. But as a generalization, I think most CF bikes have a better ride than most aluminum bikes, in my (subjective) opinion.


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## SM-Rider (May 2, 2007)

Spoken like a true Westerner who cannot see the other side of materialism.

It's not a dig. It's simply that you don't see it. And that's perfectly fine.

I would agree that most Easterners who follow various Eastern philosophical teachings don't know what they are following. The same is true of the West.




terry b said:


> Of course it does, it's just not the key to happiness. I love buying things and I love the feeling I get while I'm using them. It's one tiny aspect of my version of full life. Maybe not yours.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## jaysc (Apr 23, 2010)

Do you honestly think that an aluminum Fuji and a carbon Cervelo will ride the same? Not saying that you stated that, but I think it would atrociously obvious to anyone in the market that there will be quite a difference between riding an aluminum Fuji with Sora components and a carbon Cervelo with a Dura Ace group. One is more expensive, for a reason. 

The argument of "Is it worth it?" is an entirely different topic of discussion.


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## jaysc (Apr 23, 2010)

Double post. Sorry.


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## mangotreat0808 (Sep 4, 2006)

It's another sad extension of the materialism that has enveloped our existence in these western parts. But say this to a non-cyclist person who instead "loves" and spends on motorcycles, race cars, jewelry, boats, they would say, I enjoy them, they make me feel 'happy'. But isn't it funny that a person who's into high end luxury cars (like they have 3 in their garage and three on the driveway) might not have a Cervelo or a Look 595, but they are equally "happy", compared with the person like in this forum (I'm one of them) who has their dreambike, and then..here's the kicker you go to a remote place (remote or even close to us) you meet a person that only has the necessities of life (a roof, maybe a clunker roadbike), and they're happy. It's a total grand delusion of the highest form. In other words, you think you need it, cuz others think the same, sort of like "the blind leading the blind" ?


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

JoelS said:


> Just cause.


Yeah I hear you. It's kind of addicting. The price of my bikes are not an indication of how bad of a rider I am. Actually, they're inversely proportional.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

SM-Rider said:


> Spoken like a true Westerner who cannot see the other side of materialism.
> 
> It's not a dig. It's simply that you don't see it. And that's perfectly fine.
> 
> I would agree that most Easterners who follow various Eastern philosophical teachings don't know what they are following. The same is true of the West.


Huh?

I see both sides of the coin pretty clearly and from my perspective, someone sitting in front of a computer in some western home talking about the bad side of materialism and how together the non-materialistic societies are, needs to go live somewhere else and get a new perspective. 

You sound like an expert, please enlighten me on some current society that is happy living with less. And how that benefits them.


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## campyhag (Feb 4, 2004)

Serotonin


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

campyhag said:


> Serotonin


Exactly.


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## SM-Rider (May 2, 2007)

How can you say that you see both sides of the coin clearly when you don't really understand many of the details of the other side? And it is possible to sit in front of a computer and live in a non-materialistic way. That's your limitation and rule, not mine. This happens to be a 7 yr old computer that is on its last legs. It will be replaced only when truly necessary.

Truthfully, the tone of your words remind me of the "white man's burden". Somehow, the West has so much to teach the savages. "go live somewhere else and get a new perspective"? That just says it all. Your perspective is the only perspective, I guess (or maybe ones that are close to yours). This is the implication of your words.

I never spoke of entire societies understanding my position. The truth is that you are absolutely right when looking from a society by society perspective. The ones that understand are generally individuals. Why is it that the Ghandi's and Mother Theresa's of our history are largely celebrated while the JP Morgans pass quietly into history (not to compare myself to any of these people)?

Look, I'm not looking to insult you. I am simply agreeing with a perspective that really promotes a harmonious existence. I will be glad to take this conversation to PM and talk as long as you are genuinely curious.



terry b said:


> Huh?
> 
> I see both sides of the coin pretty clearly and from my perspective, someone sitting in front of a computer in some western home talking about the bad side of materialism and how together the non-materialistic societies are, needs to go live somewhere else and get a new perspective.
> 
> You sound like an expert, please enlighten me on some current society that is happy living with less. And how that benefits them.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

SM-Rider said:


> Look, I'm not looking to insult you. I am simply agreeing with a perspective that really promotes a harmonious existence. I will be glad to take this conversation to PM and talk as long as you are genuinely curious.


I'm sorry, but "you don't know what you're talking about" followed by "it's not a dig" hardly qualifies as not trying to insult me when you began with "spoken like a true westerner."

You can interpret what I said anyway you want, I can't control it. "White Man's Burden" had nothing to do with anything I said, and you should have understood that by the story I told about the Chinese woman in the seaside village. I felt sorry for her losing her lifestyle, she told me she was glad to lose it. That shocked me quite a bit, since like so many westerners I too thought that people were perfectly happy to live in abject poverty because their lives are so simple and pure.

But back to the original point of this thread - material possessions are only a problem if they rule your life. There is nothing good, bad or indifferent about an expensive bicycle. And trying to say that we could all be more righteous by riding cheap bikes is just plain simple-minded - the two have nothing to do with each other.

Every western person who longs for the simple life because they think that there are cultures out there who have embraced it, is deluded. At the individual level, sure, but that's where it stops. And if people want less "stuff" good for them, personally, I like my things. Bikes, cameras - make my life better and if I had less of them I would hardly sit back and say "wow, I am so much more at peace." I'd just like it if peopple would drop the sanctimonious slant of "if I was a monk living in a monastery in northern Liaoning, I'd be a lot happier." Well, I've been to that monastery and I can say with about 100% confidence that someone wishing for it doesn't know for a second what they're asking.


Honestly, does using a 7 year old computer really lead to a more harmonious existence? Mine is 4 years old and it's a pain in the neck.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

Ah, happy peasants!
Dwelling within your thatched roofs are a thousand delicacies!
The Cobra in the rice paddy smiles and says hello!
The monsoon and the tax collector provide rescue from the burden of the harvest!
The village dentist does fine work!
Why does Grandfather smell so bad?

Yes, I think I've drunk a little too much white wine.


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## ohvrolla (Aug 2, 2009)

Who says we do spend so much money for a bicycle? I wouldn't take the opinions and purchasing history of members on this forum as the norm. For every $5000 plus bike bought how many Trek 1.Xs or Specialized Secteurs were bought? For every $1000 dollar wheelset bought how many people were content to leave the factory wheelset on?


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## Rusted Angel (Sep 19, 2010)

It has never been a matter of how many do you need at such price, is all about how many do you want at any price!


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## WaynefromOrlando (Mar 3, 2010)

I watched a Anthony Bordain "No Reservations" episode a few weeks ago filmed in Saudi Arabia. In that episode camel racing was a topic, as well as the exorbitant price for camels with a certain lineage. The price of a racing camel would pay for a dozen top of the line TdF ready racing bikes.

I have also traveled the Far East, Africa and Europe, and westerners have not cornered the market on materialism. Every culture has the same problem, translated into its own idea of what is valuable or desireable. In Europe it is vacations that last months, or a vacation home in the Spain, Italy or somewhere else warmer than London or Bern.

In Asia, it can be anything to having lots of blingy things to the house higher up the hillside. In Korea, people are buying top of the line bikes and then never riding them more than 1 or 2 times a month for less than 10 miles in a big group. Kinda like teens used to cruise the main street in town just to see and be seen. 

Me, I like to be somewhat counter cultural, so I buy less mainstream things like a Smart car, drive that and a 15 year old Buick, and an Immortal Pro I bought from the B&M cycling store associated with Bikes Direct. I have a nice, 17 lb carbon frame bike with decent components that costs far less than the flashy Treks, Specialized and other big names. 

The funny thing is that I received more compliments on my bike yesterday on the Assault on Sugarloaf ride than my riding amigo did with his flashy Orbea that cost twice as much used as my Immortal did new. I have found that being different has its own value. Being the most expensive is just 1 way to be different, but it is not the only way.

Like a conversation I had after yesterdays ride, where someone was talking about a person from the previous years Horrible Hundred century ride who whipped out a 23 mph average pace on a fat tire steel bike that weighed somewhere north of 30 lbs. How he had ridden the whole route the previous day just to check it out on the same bike. 

THAT is what some people buy expensive bikes for, to get notice and attention. Others do it for self gratification. Another group buy expensive bikes for what they can do, measuring each gram and quality as if it was money in the bank. Me, it's about doing something different, riding a relatively unique bike (only saw 1 other Motobecane on the course), or riding just as fast for far less money that makes me happy.

So it's not as cultural centric as some would portray it, nor is it only about the money. It's just that an expensive bike, car, boat or camel is often a way to stand out while still fitting in. Those with a counter cultural attitude will find other ways than pure price to stand out and not fit in, such as steel bikes, off brands or racing a 'cross bike on a road course and beating the snot out of the local roadies. Which happens from time to time.


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## ph0enix (Aug 12, 2009)

terry b said:


> I'm sorry, but "you don't know what you're talking about" followed by "it's not a dig" hardly qualifies as not trying to insult me when you began with "spoken like a true westerner."
> 
> You can interpret what I said anyway you want, I can't control it. "White Man's Burden" had nothing to do with anything I said, and you should have understood that by the story I told about the Chinese woman in the seaside village. I felt sorry for her losing her lifestyle, she told me she was glad to lose it. That shocked me quite a bit, since like so many westerners I too thought that people were perfectly happy to live in abject poverty because their lives are so simple and pure.
> 
> ...


I think both of you are onto something here. I can see how living simply could lead to one's happiness. Perhaps it's not for everyone but there is something very appealing about the idea. There are plenty of days when I feel like instead of working 80 hours a week, I should just get off the grid and live in the woods but only if I could take my nice (fairly expensive) bicycle with me ...oh, and also my Macbook Pro along with FiOS Internet  Everything else I could probably do without.
What I'm wondering is if the Chinese woman you're talking about would have changed her mind after living in the civilized world for a while and having to deal with its complexities. Just a thought.


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

dasho said:


> So I guess my question is can you really tell the difference in your high end bike and feel it is worth the extra money or have you bought it just because you can?


yes.
no.


It's really not so deep as most of this psychobabble make it out to be. I spent a lot on a bike because the bike I wanted cost a lot. Period.
Why? Because I wanted to.
Is it justified? To me, yes. To strangers on the internet who care what other strangers on the internet spend money on? Who cares.


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## ohvrolla (Aug 2, 2009)

Well since the neighbors and co-workers probably thing I'm a fruitcake for wearing lycra who else I'm I going to brag to other than strangers on the internet about how str8 fukn ballin mah carbon fiber whip is yo, respek.


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## raymonda (Jan 31, 2007)

heathb said:


> The truth is the guy with the strongest legs wins the race. I've ridden with National Masters Champions that compete internationally and some of them have been on real clunkers during our training rides.
> 
> The sad fact is though they put a hurt on me like no one else while I was perched on a $5K bike and they were on a $1200 bike or even less.
> 
> It's the legs and only the legs that matter. All this other stuff about how the bike looks is sissy.


Speed, racing, finishing first may be your goal but it may not be others, or define satisfaction. I ride a bike for satisfaction not to hammer the others I'm riding with or against. Not that it doesn't feel good to win a race but that is ultimately not why I ride. My favorite rides have been places not against people or time.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

raymonda said:


> Speed, racing, finishing first may be your goal but it may not be others, or define satisfaction. I ride a bike for satisfaction not to hammer the others I'm riding with or against. Not that it doesn't feel good to win a race but that is ultimately not why I ride. My favorite rides have been places not against people or time.



+1....I couldn't agree more..and there is nothing wrong with having a nice bike to ride and enjoy the scenery... It's a hobby.....actually for me, it's more like an obsession but it's a healthy obsession


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## Rusted Angel (Sep 19, 2010)

You guys sound like gun owners LOL


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## wvucyclist (Sep 6, 2007)

My bike is less than one paycheck (I don't make any more than average), and I race it to mid pack cat 2 finishes, and rode it to my upgrade. More expensive bikes just take the doubt out that the only thing holding you back is you.


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## SM-Rider (May 2, 2007)

You're right. I am simple-minded, deluded, and behave sanctimoniously. I do not know for a second what I am asking for either. This 7 old computer is a huge pain in the neck too.





terry b said:


> I'm sorry, but "you don't know what you're talking about" followed by "it's not a dig" hardly qualifies as not trying to insult me when you began with "spoken like a true westerner."
> 
> You can interpret what I said anyway you want, I can't control it. "White Man's Burden" had nothing to do with anything I said, and you should have understood that by the story I told about the Chinese woman in the seaside village. I felt sorry for her losing her lifestyle, she told me she was glad to lose it. That shocked me quite a bit, since like so many westerners I too thought that people were perfectly happy to live in abject poverty because their lives are so simple and pure.
> 
> ...


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## poff (Jul 21, 2007)

99% of posters in this thread are MAMIL. Rational reasoning be damned!


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## SM-Rider (May 2, 2007)

Ph0enix,

It is not so much that the absence of possessions itself brings happiness into focus. It is the removal of these distractions that you realize your natural state is happiness. That is why people like to connect with nature.

I have actually had a chance to see both sides in an odd turn of events. I was miserable in graduate school studying for a PhD in an esoteric science. I left the studies and worked in corporate America. Then, I spent several years not working, spending my days in meditation, reading, and writing. Weeks would pass when I would not utter a word to anyone. I eventually reintegrated with society and have lived simply since.

While I cannot ever speak for anyone else's experience, I think there are not many people who have seen both sides as I have (or perhaps, the current economy is providing many with this opportunity). That Chinese woman's experience is uniquely her own. How she feels about it is actually largely her choice. She is no barometer for anyone but herself (same as me).

Nevertheless, do not believe a word that I write. Check and see if these ideas are in line with your experiences. If not, I am clearly wrong.





ph0enix said:


> I think both of you are onto something here. I can see how living simply could lead to one's happiness. Perhaps it's not for everyone but there is something very appealing about the idea. There are plenty of days when I feel like instead of working 80 hours a week, I should just get off the grid and live in the woods but only if I could take my nice (fairly expensive) bicycle with me ...oh, and also my Macbook Pro along with FiOS Internet  Everything else I could probably do without.
> What I'm wondering is if the Chinese woman you're talking about would have changed her mind after living in the civilized world for a while and having to deal with its complexities. Just a thought.


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## Pieter (Oct 17, 2005)

I considered my bike expensive. 

It cost a lot of money (to me) - $2,000. Thank heavens that was 3 years ago and in the meantime I have seen a bike costing 50% more, described as a 'solid midpriced package'. Good !


I have ridden 5 bikes before this one, mostly fine bikes, but this one has encouraged me to enjoy more and pay more attention. 3 years on I can say it has been worth it. It has encouraged me to ride more and commute far more. It has encouraged me to work more on bikes, respect them, respect other cyclists, help them with their bikes on occasion.

And maybe paradoxically I have discovered the joys of resurrecting a wreck of a bike, finding pleasure in it and using it for commuting especially. Or maybe the scary thought of commuting on carbon finally got through to me ?


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

No culture is more "enlightened" than another. It is just one person exoticizing another. Everyone all over the world is F-ed up in their own ways and it is simply constructivist to arrange it is subjectivities of "good" and "bad".


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## dysfunction (Apr 2, 2010)

Doug B said:


> I hear ya brother. The jewel encrused titanium housing couple with the ba-jillion watt light bulb isn't worth the money for me, so I carry two $100 lights, and two of the $50 backup lights...


heh. I'd be happy if every dive didn't include the cost of transporting myself multiple hundreds of miles away, and the associated lodging and food costs.. 

Still, I suppose it's cheaper than mountain biking :shocked:


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## myak (Aug 15, 2012)

*Why do bicycles cost so much!!*

I was in a Ducati showroom the other day had a reality check.
Ducati Streetfighter 848 : Retails for $12,995.00

Ducati Monster 1100 : Retails for $11,995.00

Cannondale Supersix EVO Ultimate : Retails for $12,100.00

Not to pick on Cannondale, because all the bike companies have their own examples, but how can they justify these kind of prices? Why should a pair of Carbon wheels cost $2000 and up? 
I think the whole industry has gotten out of control and we are happily indulging them.
And I am an avid rider: 150-200miles a week.


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## dgeesaman (Jun 9, 2010)

myak said:


> Not to pick on Cannondale, because all the bike companies have their own examples, but how can they justify these kind of prices? Why should a pair of Carbon wheels cost $2000 and up?
> I think the whole industry has gotten out of control and we are happily indulging them.
> And I am an avid rider: 150-200miles a week.


I agree things at the high end are "out of control", but that's what the market will bear. There are still plenty of terrific bikes out there for $2k-5k that are within a few hairs of the $12k bikes in terms of performance.

I personally do not feel any elevated respect toward a cyclist who pays $10k for a bike. I aspire to be the kind of rider who has a few very good bikes, knows those bikes relatively well, and uses them all regularly.

That said, some cyclists find very high end bicycles to be a collectible item, and like a classic car or supercar, take them out on the roads as part of the experience. That's kind of a different line of thinking and also a fairly small part of the high end market.


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## Icetech (Aug 13, 2012)

I figure whatever makes you happy I make decent money but can't bring myself to spend over 1k on a bike.. but i don't judge or think anything of anyone elses bikes.. to each their own


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## scorchedearth (Mar 22, 2012)

I bought what for myself, was an expensive bike and it was worth every penny. I wanted something that I enjoy riding and would serve me for many years. I saved my pennies, got my machine, and use it as a tool to commute, run errands, and to exercise.


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## stanseven (Nov 9, 2011)

myak said:


> I was in a Ducati showroom the other day had a reality check.
> Ducati Streetfighter 848 : Retails for $12,995.00
> 
> Ducati Monster 1100 : Retails for $11,995.00
> ...


You are excited to tell this story. I just saw your post on bikes forum and now you resurrected a two year old thread here to say the same?


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

The bike I raced (and won several times) 2009-2011 on cost me $1,000 exactly. Very lightly used Campy Record 10 speed, Cannondale aluminum.

My current bike, I got a sweetheart deal from my LBS, Campy Record 10-speed, Caad10, $1600. 

You don't have to spend a lot for a race-worthy or whatever-worthy bike.


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## exracer (Jun 6, 2005)

Originally posted by *dasho*


> Why do we spend so much money for a bicycle?


Boiled down to it's simplest form, the answer for me is; Because I can. I have the means, so why not. I've been riding for over 30 years.. I've raced both road and mountain bikes, commuted, daily, run errands and just gone riding for the hell of it. I have some many great experiences while riding over the past 30 years; why not buy the best bike I can afford. 

originally posted by *dasho*


> So I guess my question is can you really tell the difference in your high end bike and feel it is worth the extra money or have you bought it just because you can?


Yes you can feel the difference. The only thing that a low end bike and a high end bike have in common is that they are are both bicycles.


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## BostonG (Apr 13, 2010)

Because my neighbor has one of course, why else?

You can ask this question many things:
Why do we spend so much money on a home?
Why do we spend so much money on a car?
Why do we spend so much money on a shirt?
Why do we spend so much money on a dinner?
Why do we spend so much money on a vacation?
etc.

The answer is different for different people. Status, looks, performance, weight, feel. 

The common thread though is because it brings enjoyment. And BTW, my bike is so bigger than your bike.


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## BernyMac (Jul 13, 2010)

Any justification/rationalization is valid. PIck a reason, and stick with it, no one can tell you that you are wrong. Well, they could, but they will be wrong!


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## dcorn (Sep 1, 2011)

I'm a huge car nut and cars are expensive, as are all the parts you buy for them. I'm 26 and have gone through 8 cars, modifying all of them, some pretty extensively. I've never been able to have the best of the best in the car world because it's way out of my price range. 

Cycling is one place where I can personally afford and ride some of the best equipment in the business. I'm riding the same bike with the same groupset and same wheels that the pros ride. My bike actually started out lighter than UCI allows. That's awesome to me. 

Plus people are impressed by it and that helps the ego of course haha. The last group ride I went on, I had one of the nicest bikes there, even though most of those guys race and I don't. Do I care? Nope. Some guy was kicking my ass (and everyone else's) on an aluminum bike.



wvucyclist said:


> More expensive bikes just take the doubt out that the only thing holding you back is you.


This too. If my bike is light and aero and everything else, I know the only way to get better is to improve my own performance.


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## Wetworks (Aug 10, 2012)

LOL, we pretty much have the same conversations on the watch forums I belong to. "Why spend $Xxxxx on a watch when I can get as good or better time from a Casio or mobile"? Like the guy on the first page said, just because. What we are passionate about is reason enough.:yesnod:


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## MXL (Jun 26, 2012)

I am not so much interested in the queation: "why do we spend so much money for a bicycle?" but more as to why one would ask such a question?


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## rkdvsm (Jul 15, 2006)

Watch out when you ask a question like this. People can get pretty defensive...


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## Coastrider (Feb 14, 2005)

You do it because you have a passion for Quality & desire for a Great bike to ride! You work hard play Hard. Enjoy it while you can


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## ktc (Feb 18, 2012)

I love the way my Seven Axiom looks and feels. With a son in college I couldn't afford a new one so I bought used, but it was still pricy by my wifes standards! I look forward to every ride on this bike.


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## SirVelo' (Aug 16, 2012)

it made me feel good


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## cyclingsivells (Aug 1, 2012)

People love to spend money in attempt to buy speed. Most of the people I ride with are over-equipped in my opinion. One of them just bought a new Trek Domane although he had a very nice Cervelo AND an Orbea. Several others have bikes in the 8 to 10 K range with electronic shifting, power taps, etc. I'm not bragging but I can hang with any of them and on most rides I'm near the front or dragging their butts all over the place on my 2K bike. It's the same way with golf. You can't buy a game, but it doesn't keep people from trying.


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## Akirasho (Jan 27, 2004)

... this thread made me think... a couple years ago, an elderly racer pulled a Di2 equipped Fuji D6 with SRAM 80 wheels out of his vehicle in prep for a race... because he could... and the money wasn't going to his kids.


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## Flbikejunkie (Mar 18, 2012)

My business partner who has been an avid cyclist racking up 3-4 thousand miles per year had been researching for his dream bicycle after 38,000 miles on his Litespeed. He was about to pull the trigger when he was diagnosed with a benign brain tumor (meningioma). He began having weakness related to the tumor and elected to have surgery. He died 3 weeks later suddenly from a pulmonary embolism at age 52. We spend so much on our bicycles because we are passionate about our sport and you don't know how many years you have left to enjoy them.


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## Coastrider (Feb 14, 2005)

A friend of mine put this way RE: Golf With Money you can buy Distance & Woman In Riding you buy what makes you want do another ride for as long as you want with the greatest amount of pleasure. It"s not always about speed. Harry Chapin said it best "Half the fun about going was the getting there."


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

cycling is a dirt cheap sport compared to many other hobbies.

after dabbling with flying and then going seriously into cave diving, they make spending a few grand on a set of wheels or a frame look like bargain basement expenses...


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## King Arthur (Nov 13, 2009)

JoelS said:


> Just cause. I don't need to justify my purchases to anyone (other than my wife, and she understands - custom Ti Serotta that she rides).


Is it because, "the money I throw at it, the faster and more Wigginesqe I will be!" 

Or is it "the more bling, carbon of uber high quality and technology I possess, the more I will ride like the yellow jersey!"


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## martinrm (Jul 30, 2012)

Personally i think its out of competition. As human beings it is in out nature to be competitive, we always strive to stand out infront of someone else. . . having a nicer, lighter, expensive bike is one way to do that. Strictly speaking the performance gain of a full carbon bike is not that much more than an aluminum bike, however why do we still spend 3-4 times as much on a carbon bike, especially we you are the type of average rider that isnt using it for it full potential i.e racing. If you have the money you spend it. . . to get something nicer. . . something to be admired, and all it is, is the very fact that you want to be noticed. Lets just say the better bike is an ego boost. 

To Relate this to a real life scenario about animalistic nature, just look at mating rituals. In many cases the male will display brilliant colors or exquisite mating calls to attract the females attention. Some could even say its like the survival of the fittest, the ones who find a mate reproduce. So how is this different than buying a bike that makes people look at you. Are carbon fiber wheels that different than the brilliant plumes on a male peacock, and the sleek aero frame different from a king penguins bird call. 

Boiled down its just a competition, ones own ego, and the wanting to be noticed.


For example here who it went between my father and I.
He had an old 80's Celo. . a classic steel racer and i rode my moms old lotus. I needed a better bike so i bought a $400 used aluminum frame trek SLR 1500 off of craiglist, my dad road it and was a little jealous in heart. Soon enough he bought a Carbon Lightspeed M1, and i road it and got a little bit jealous. Then i bought my Pinarello which makes absolutely no sense, and the only difference is that people look at me differently now. And why do i now find the urge to buy carbon fiber wheels that cost $1500? Its all a game, a silly little game, and even myself who understands where it derives from still falls victim to the heinous competition.


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

Oxtox said:


> cycling is a dirt cheap sport compared to many other hobbies.
> 
> after dabbling with flying and then going seriously into cave diving, they make spending a few grand on a set of wheels or a frame look like bargain basement expenses...


Yup - I tell people the same about tech/cave diving. Just a few years ago I didn't know there was such thing as a $1,500 flashlight... much less that I needed TWO of them!


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## rkdvsm (Jul 15, 2006)

RJP Diver said:


> Yup - I tell people the same about tech/cave diving. Just a few years ago I didn't know there was such thing as a $1,500 flashlight... much less that I needed TWO of them!


You bring up a good point, but then I wonder if there is still yet a difference. I don't know anything about cave diving so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

It appears that cave diving is a pretty technical sport that requires high-tech equipments. You can't just use any old flashlight. A high-powered flashlight is required and they may go for over $1000, and you need two of them, as you say. Buying everything else for this activity will probably set a person back a pretty penny - way more than what they would spend for cycling. However, everything you buy for cave diving has a practical purpose. The money that goes into the sport has a real benefit to the diver (i.e. helping them see in the dark).

Cycling, on the other hand, requires a bike, tools, and clothing. How much does one need to spend on a bike to do what they need? What real added benefits is the cyclist getting when they get carbon fiber or a dura-ace/record component group? Do they really go faster? I doubt it since we agree it's all about the engine. The only component that I feel is worth the extra cash is in the saddle and wheels. Investing in those two parts seem to get your money's worth. But a $200 derailleur? Or if we get into protection, a $200 helmet? Do they work that much better than something half its cost or even a quarter of its cost?

Maybe there isn't a difference...do cave divers pay extra for carbon fiber flashlights?

In the end, I think psychology plays the biggest role in our purchases. Whether it is due to marketing or whatever, we are happier with an expensive bike. Happier riders = frequent riding. That is always a good thing.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

I want a bike that climbs well. Sure my shape is more important but the bike does make a difference. 

Lighter/stiffer helps. And yes they look cool. I would care less about cars or really clothes anymore. But I appreciate a good bike.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

rkdvsm said:


> The money that goes into the sport has a real benefit to the diver (i.e. helping them see in the dark).


your point is valid. dive gear is, by and large, life-support equipment. 

for many divers, a $1K light or a $3K drysuit is not a luxury, it's a necessity to complete a dive as planned.

there's really not much comparison in cycling-related purchases. you might enjoy your ride more with expensive, super-light components, but you won't die if you have lower-end gear.


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## stanseven (Nov 9, 2011)

rkdvsm said:


> Cycling, on the other hand, requires a bike, tools, and clothing. How much does one need to spend on a bike to do what they need? What real added benefits is the cyclist getting when they get carbon fiber or a dura-ace/record component group? Do they really go faster? I doubt it since we agree it's all about the engine. The only component that feel is worth the extra cash is in the saddle and wheels. Investing in those two parts seem to get your money's worth. But a $200 derailleur? Or if we get into protection, a $200 helmet? Do they work that much better than something half its cost or even a quarter of its cost?
> .


Yes, spending money can make you faster - aero wheels, aero frame, better fit through proper size frame and components, lighter overall weight that improves climbing, electronic shifting for convenience and some performance, and CF for comfort. All are small but add up and supported by test data.

Then there's the enjoyment of buying something new that's better. If you have the money you'll spend it on something else. So why not something you enjoy?

Enough of this psychological and competition crap - its about increased enjoyment and mprovement, while some is small


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## dallasmcmahon (Aug 18, 2012)

im 15 and im trying to save up for a orbea. hahaha


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## ralph1 (May 20, 2006)

I have been riding/racing for over 30 years now (WOW) and am thinking about throwing down some more money on another bike, I already own a good one, and a beater, but I asked myself, and the answer I got was "why not".

I don't smoke or drink, I work hard for my money and have just spent 6 months in the Middle East on deployment, this will be my "present" to myself.

cheers

Ralph


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## rkdvsm (Jul 15, 2006)

ralph1 said:


> I have been riding/racing for over 30 years now (WOW) and am thinking about throwing down some more money on another bike, I already own a good one, and a beater, but I asked myself, and the answer I got was "why not".
> 
> I don't smoke or drink, I work hard for my money and have just spent 6 months in the Middle East on deployment, this will be my "present" to myself.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your service! Imho, you deserve more than just a bike! For what it's worth, I offer my appreciation and respect.


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## Got Time (Jan 23, 2009)

CycoBob said:


> The way I look at it: I could buy a $5K bike tomorrow, but how would that make me enjoy my rides anymore than on my current $350 bike?


If you don't know how that would make your ride more enjoyable, then don't buy it. Simple, isn't it?

Each person may determine "value" differently.


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## Glennms (Aug 18, 2012)

*People thought I was crazy!*

I payed $1000 for my bike back in the 80s. People thouht I was crazy


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

CycoBob said:


> That's just it. It makes me think there may be something to "expensive bikes" because of the fact that other people do buy them. Maybe when I upgrade to a $1200 bike I'll say "Wow! What a difference" and see what I've been missing. Maybe not. But then I'm sure that there is a point of diminishing returns. From what I understand, that point is probably somewhere between $2K-$3K. Then too, it also depends on what kind of riding one does. As a strictly recreational "enjoy the ride" rider, I'd get less out of a "good bike" than a serious racer would. Heck, yesterday I just took it easy and plodded along, and didn't even ride my $350 bike for all it was worth....
> 
> Some people get pleasure from keeping things simple and basic...some get pleasure from the materialism of having the "best". Not that there's anything wrong with either extreme or any point in between....but it's good to realize where one stands and not to get caught up in the "If I only I had a better __________ I'd be happier/do better" mentality, because some people buy expensive things, but don't understand why they're buying them, and thus end up not getting the full value of having them- kind of like many celebrities, who think that having a fortune or a mansion or fine cars will make them happy- so they devote their lives to acquiring those things, and then live on alcohol and drugs because they are still so unfulfilled. Not that there's anything wrong with a fortune or mansion or fine cars....but people just need to be realistic about the role they play in their lives and the scheme of things.


I went cheap initially. A GMC Denali. About $300 or so. It worked. But it was heavy. Probably not a good fit either. 

After riding some, I went to an LBS and bought my first real road bike. A Specialized Secteur. Basically an aluminum Roubaix. I don't race and the bike is really comfortable and was about $900. 

I rode much more on that bike. More comfortable. Better power transfer. Lighter. Shifted better (still bad - Sora) but better. Made riding more fun. 

But after awhile I still wanted something faster. Maybe I just saw others make the leap. But figured I would test a carbon bike or two, just to see if I could tell the difference.

So I went into try a Defy Advanced but well did not like the shop. Went to another one to try a Synapse. The guy put me on a Cervelo RS. I could feel the difference but not worth the money difference.

The guy at the shop asked me what I thought and I told him just that. He asked what I wanted. I wanted to be faster and better on hills. He put me on a Super Six instead of the Synapse. What a difference? Almost bought it on the spot but decided I needed to re-think my entire approach as I had not considered anything that aggressive.

Tried a few more and ended up with a Specialized Tarmac Pro. Love it. The lightness, the responsiveness, the efficiency. It has inspired me to be a better rider. 

I don't regret the two cheap steps. They taught me what I really wanted. And the Denali works fine on a trainer. The Secteur serves as rain/gravel grinder to avoid beating up the Tarmac. 

But I really do not ride either of those with the enthusiasm that the Tarmac brings.


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## SFTifoso (Aug 17, 2011)

Right now I don't spend a whole lot of money on cycling, but I have of time to ride. In a couple years though, I'll have a lot more money to spend, but will not have so much time to ride.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

CycoBob said:


> That really puts things in perspective, and is something i can relate to.
> 
> I started with my current $350 Bikesdirect bike -which is probably about equivalent to the Secteur. I'm planning on doing some test-rides of better bikes (or, if I can find the deals, getting some bikes of interest used, and selling them until I hit on the right one).
> 
> ...


I think that is all true. And I would say that if I had bought an Allez Apex instead of a Secteur Sport with Sora, I would likely not have bought the Tarmac. 

The geo of the bike seemed to matter more than the material. And I prefer Sram to Shimano in general. 

That said, I could tell the difference between the SL3 and SL2 frames on the Tarmac and similar on the other bikes. The higher end carbon in the SL3 was more responsive. I tested by climbing familiar hills at a couple of different shops. The Tarmac was the only bike that made the hill feel easy. Maybe it was in my head, but it felt great.


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## Oasisbill (Jan 15, 2011)

King Arthur said:


> Is it because, "the money I throw at it, the faster and more Wigginesqe I will be!"
> 
> Or is it "the more bling, carbon of uber high quality and technology I possess, the more I will ride like the yellow jersey!"


Probably the most honest answer there is is here....


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## Emkay (Aug 20, 2012)

I have no idea why someone would pay $7K for a bicycle. I brushed my fingers along the frame of one of these starlets proudly displayed in a bike shop, but was afraid to do much more than that in fear of breaking it. The most I'm willing --and able to pay is $600 max. Because I'm poor.


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## enzo24 (Jul 8, 2012)

Well, I just made the upgrade from a $1000 bike to a $2000 bike. The $1000 bike got a lot of great service, but it didn't suit me nearly as much as it did when I bought it. 

Given that riding is the #3 thing I do after sleeping and working, I figured that I might as well get a bike that really suited me. I'm also making a lot more money than when I bought the first bike, so the new one is actually comparatively less expensive. 

Is the $2000 bike better? Yes. But probably half that is better fit, which I could have gotten in a $1500 bike. The rest is weight and better components. For me it was worth it. 

I still don't get the folks that buy the $12,000 bikes though. Is it just about showing off how rich you are? You can get an incredibly sweet bike (probably the top of the line a couple years ago) for $3-4000.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

enzo24 said:


> I still don't get the folks that buy the $12,000 bikes though. Is it just about showing off how rich you are? You can get an incredibly sweet bike (probably the top of the line a couple years ago) for $3-4000.


you're being sorely naive about this. in virtually every brand you can name, a $3-4K bike is not top-of-the-line, not even close. 

a $12K bike is totally affordable for some people, just like a $10M house, a Ferrari, or stable of polo ponies. wealth likes to distance itself from the unwashed masses who buy off-the-rack.

just because you don't have the cash for upscale purchases, it certainly doesn't mean others don't.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

CycoBob said:


> I'd be willing to bet that most non-pros who own a $12K are miserable. /QUOTE]
> 
> why would they be miserable?
> 
> because they own a high-end bike but don't earn a living from it...? bfd.


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## stanseven (Nov 9, 2011)

CycoBob said:


> I'd be willing to bet that most non-pros who own a $12K are miserable.
> 
> [Impressing people whom I don't even care enough about to want to ride with, is not a benefit]


Wow, you certainly have a different perspective. 

I have a $12K bicycle and I'm not at all miserable. I'm not wealthy either. I enjoy cycling a lot and am willing to spend money on things that make me happy.

I don't understand your comment about impressing people. Why do you think I, or anyone else, spends money to impress people? I brought a bike I wanted just for me and no one else.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

CycoBob said:


> I'd be willing to bet that most non-pros who own a $12K are miserable.


Just like most owners of a Corvette ZR1? 
$112,600 and top speed of 205mph. They must be miserable owning a car that most will never drive near it's potential.


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## stanseven (Nov 9, 2011)

enzo24 said:


> I still don't get the folks that buy the $12,000 bikes though. Is it just about showing off how rich you are? You can get an incredibly sweet bike (probably the top of the line a couple years ago) for $3-4000.


Let me explain it to you in simple terms. In many people's case, spending the money results from a practical decision. Let's say you have $10,000 save up and you want tp spend it on things that make you happy. One option is $2,000 on a bike. Another is a trip. Another is a beach vacation. Another is new gold equipment, etc. But the hobby and thing you enjoy most is cycling. And a new $12,000 with Di2, aero CF wheels, all the bells and whisles, etc. makes you the happist. So you decide that's what you want. You take your savings, maybe sell another bike or two,and buy the $12,000.

It's what you want, it motivates you to ride more often and push yourself harder, and you get more enjoyment out of it than a cruise in Europe for two weeks.

Now how does that show off how rich that person is?


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## MercRidnMike (Dec 19, 2006)

Well, in my case, it is because I have put in sufficient saddle time (at least off road) to know what I want and what my skills demand. If I am putting in thousands of km's a year on my bike, that's a pretty decent amount of saddle time to find out what works for me, what I like and what I want/need in a bike.

A noob generally doesn't need a big freeride bike to enjoying tooling around the MUTs....I'm a clyde class guy and hit stuff....hard. Could I live with Deore components...sure, but I prefer XT because it lasts and I can tell the feel / performance differences between the two and it is the best bang for the buck in my mind. My mtb is what I need / want it to be for how much I ride it and what I do with it. Sure, to replace it would be ~$6,000, but I've built it from the frame up, using parts I already picked up so it didn't cost me that much. But it would be massive overkill for most mtb noobs.

Same thing with the road bike I am picking up...my Jake has done me well (as I dug in my nails to stay dirty and not have one of them "roadie" bikes  ) but it doesn't really meet my needs anymore. I'm not commuting on dirt anymore and I am doing a lot more training rides and long rides on straight asphalt...a 26 lb commuter bike is better than a 37 lb freeride bike, but it's no 17 lb pure road machine. Could I get away with a $800 aluminum road bike....possibly, but I doubt I'd be happy with it for long.

So to answer the OP in a nutshell: For me, I spend so much because I see it as an investment in me and how I spend my time. Some people buy cars, others boats, some have massive entertainment systems....I spend it on my bike because it is where I exercise, de-stress, get around town and so on.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

CycoBob said:


> Oxtox said:
> 
> 
> > LOL- no....they'd likely be miserable because they'd soon realize that it's just a bike, and doesn't make them a world-class racer, or even better at cycling than the local 12 year-old....
> ...


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

CycoBob said:


> I'd be miserable with that car.


We're not talking about you. We're talking about MOST people.



CycoBob said:


> Awww, C'mon guys- you know what I'm talking about. NOT the dedicated hobbyists who know what they're getting into, and who actually may get benefit from an expensive purchase- but rather, as one poster related recently in another thread, the person who wants to get into cycling, so goes out and buys a $12K bike.


No, we don't know what you're talking about... because you're changing what you're talking about. What you said was...


CycoBob said:


> I'd be willing to bet that *most non-pros *who own a $12K are miserable.


"Most" would include your "dedicated hobbyists"
"Most" would include amature racers.


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## enzo24 (Jul 8, 2012)

Oxtox said:


> you're being sorely naive about this. in virtually every brand you can name, a $3-4K bike is not top-of-the-line, not even close.
> 
> a $12K bike is totally affordable for some people, just like a $10M house, a Ferrari, or stable of polo ponies.


The difference is, a $10M house is a hell of a lot more house (or in a hell of a lot better location) than even a $1M house. A Ferrari is a lot faster and better than even, say, a Corvette. 

A $12K bike is what, maybe 2 lbs lighter than a $4K bike? Just talking stock here, too. Put better wheels on the $4K bike and the gap closes some more. You could do more upgrades, too, and end up with an excellent bike without coming close to $12K. And the whole thing is still badly limited by the thing on top. 

The other thing, and this is just personal preference, is I'd much rather buy a proven frame rather than the latest prototype, which is what many of those uber-expensive bikes are. 




Oxtox said:


> wealth likes to distance itself from the unwashed masses who buy off-the-rack.


This is it - it's people who want to show off their money. Not a great quality in a person if you ask me.


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## jdmz (Aug 6, 2012)

Because when the money factor goes away, all you have is a great bike!


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

enzo24 said:


> A $12K bike is what, maybe 2 lbs lighter than a $4K bike? Just talking stock here, too. Put better wheels on the $4K bike and the gap closes some more. You could do more upgrades, too, and end up with an excellent bike without coming close to $12K. And the whole thing is still badly limited by the thing on top.


How about 4.5lbs?

The Cannondale EVO Ultimate is 10.89 pounds and $12k. Good luck getting a stock $4k bike that weighs 12.89lbs.
Fuji Altamira 1.0 is 15.40lbs and $4529. Good luck dropping 4.5lbs for cheap.
Fuji Altamira LTD Team Edition is 14.50lbs and $9000. That's 0.9lbs less for $4500. Now you only have to find 1.6lbs more.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

enzo24 said:


> A $12K bike is what, maybe 2 lbs lighter than a $4K bike? Just talking stock here, too.


surely you're aware that weight is not the only criterion on which to buy a bike. 

again, for someone to decide what the maximum amount of money that others should spend on an object is a pointless exercise.

buy what you like and can afford.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Oxtox said:


> again, for someone to decide what the maximum amount of money that others should spend on an object is a pointless exercise.
> 
> buy what you like and can afford.


That's really the key. My bike cost about 3% of my income and I didn't really blink at eye at it. I could've saved up and went even higher.
For someone who has an income of $400k, $12k is 3%. 

It also comes down to the more income you have, the more disposable income you have. 3% to someone making minimum wage is pretty critical, whereas to someone making $400k it's pretty insignificant. That doesn't automatically mean they are flaunting their money.


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## stanseven (Nov 9, 2011)

enzo24 said:


> This is it - it's people who want to show off their money. Not a great quality in a person if you ask me.


Why are you continuously being insulting? I'm confused on what you're trying to make. Is it you're jealous?


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## Got Time (Jan 23, 2009)

enzo24 said:


> it's people who want to show off their money.


Right... I'm wondering in what kind of environment you grew up...

I have an expensive bike -- but I use it only on solo rides. For group rides, I use a 14 year old steel bike (for various reasons, the main one is that it requires more effort, hence it is better for training).

You don't have much of an imagination why people buy things that seem to be "expensive" to you...


BTW: at the "high-end" of pretty much anything you need to spend exponentially more (money) for small gains.


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## Newnan3 (Jul 8, 2011)

Well its either bikes or hookers.....


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## Lije Baley (Jun 8, 2012)

stanseven said:


> You are excited to tell this story. I just saw your post on bikes forum and now you resurrected a two year old thread here to say the same?


The thread lives again! But for those of us new to RBR, what was old is new.

I Googled "MAMIL". Pretty funny, although at 63, I'm an OGIL, and only since summer began and I bought a new bike. While I'm frugal enough that I was originally looking at aluminum frames, I'm very happy that I sprang for carbon when I found a four-year-old leftover with its price discounted more than 40%. I might not have been willing to pay MSRP at the time of purchase, but after a couple of months and a thousand miles of intensely pleasurable riding I probably would have been willing to "spend so much money for a bicycle." Mind you, its a mid-line Specialized Roubaix. I doubt I'd ever be ready to go the S-Works route. With greater disposable income, certainly. As was said earlier, one rider's high-end is another's mid-level.


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## Moocavo (Aug 6, 2012)

urgh i know what u mean


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## tazdag (Apr 9, 2002)

*I'm spending more on a bike than I ever imagined I would*

And it is really much more than just a very nice custom bike to me...
When I was going thru chemo, hoping and praying that I would end up with a functional leg, I used visualization exercises to maintain a positive frame of mind which is crucial to a healthy and healing frame of mind. I would visualize myself on my favorite rides, every mile by mile, turn by turn. But before I would start my ride, I would design the bike. It was always a Strong Ti, candy apple red panels, Chorus, etc. This visualization did wonders for me and very much helped my frame of mind. Sometime this fall Carl will build the exact bike of my visualization. It's going to cost a LOT of money, but every time I ride it, it will be a celebration of my victory over sarcoma. The cost of the bike is a mere pittance compared to that.


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## mariomal99 (Mar 4, 2012)

Because I am a gearhead


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## Endoman68 (Aug 13, 2012)

Icetech said:


> I figure whatever makes you happy I make decent money but can't bring myself to spend over 1k on a bike.. but i don't judge or think anything of anyone elses bikes.. to each their own


Well put. I'm helping a friend right now with buying his first road bike. His budget is $800. He's looking on Craigslist and new bikes. I know him and he will be happy with whatever he can get. Me on the other hand I love carbon bikes but I can't even think about buying one of those right now. I'm looking forward to getting a job, get back on my feet, and treat myself to whatever bike I can get on my budget at the time.


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## jonshonda (Oct 23, 2011)

The nice part about being a clyde who rides road bikes is that I am never the guy looking for carbon fiber wheels or ultra-lite components. 

I am the guy looking for everyones take-offs or parts the most little guys feel are heavy. On a road bike expensive stuff is really light, but on my mtnbike expensive stuff is really tuff. That's why I have spent wayyyy more on my mtnbike. I break the cheap stuff, and go for the bomb-proof bits.

Edit: I did however just spend $270 on my new saddle. After trying everything specialized had to offer, and a Brooks too....I finally found what my nuts and taint have being crying out for. A SMP Pro.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

No one blinks at a $20k car.. Or even a 30, 40, 50k car. People find a 10k bike outrageous and reserved for the rich  

Lots of people go out and spend $15k on car upgrades and stereos and stuff, and people hardly blink. If you buy a $10k bike, someones going to call you an elitist.


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

tazdag said:


> And it is really much more than just a very nice custom bike to me...it will be a celebration of my victory over sarcoma.


I guess that is an okay reason to buy an expensive bike. Congratulations on beating it. 

This actually well illustrates the point a lot of people on here are trying to make. A bike (or car or house or watch or whatever) is different to everyone. To one person it might be about bragging rights, to another a way to get to work. To still another it might be a piece of art that can be ridden. To a pro it is a way to earn a living. 

The point is none of us really know the situation of the guy riding next to us. I rode in the "A" ride of a group that was new to me yesterday. One guy could not have been more friendly and inviting...he was riding a C59 with SR11 and ENVE smart wheels. By the thinking of some people that have posted so far he should have been self-absorbed, conceited, slow and fat. Instead he was pulling a train uphill at 25mph while chatting up anyone who would listen.

Who knows why he chose a $10k+ bike...and who cares?


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## kjb0419 (Aug 24, 2012)

Because they're awesome!!!


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## haendelbars (Nov 18, 2011)

SM-Rider said:


> This happens to be a 7 yr old computer that is on its last legs. It will be replaced only when truly necessary.
> 
> .


Well, I guess it's not ever going to be necessary since people survived for thousands of years without them. I'm really just kinda picking on your wording, but you know what I mean.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

TomH said:


> No one blinks at a $20k car.. Or even a 30, 40, 50k car. People find a 10k bike outrageous and reserved for the rich
> 
> Lots of people go out and spend $15k on car upgrades and stereos and stuff, and people hardly blink. If you buy a $10k bike, someones going to call you an elitist.


Agree. I enjoy my time much more on my Tarmac than in my impreza.


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## rkdvsm (Jul 15, 2006)

TomH said:


> No one blinks at a $20k car.. Or even a 30, 40, 50k car. People find a 10k bike outrageous and reserved for the rich
> 
> Lots of people go out and spend $15k on car upgrades and stereos and stuff, and people hardly blink. If you buy a $10k bike, someones going to call you an elitist.


I get what you're saying, but this isn't a fair comparison. Buying a $10,000 bike isn't the same as a $10,000 car simply because the actual cost of buying a car and its parts are more expensive than bike parts.

It's not a one-to-one comparison and the analogy makes more sense when you compare a $10,000 Colnago with something that is in the same league such as a Dodge Viper (nice car).

I don't want to get into it too much, but you can actually do a fair mathematical comparison by using z-statistics. Simply put, here's how it would work. Take the cost of all adult bikes and find the average and standard deviation. Do the same thing for cars sold.

Then take the price of your bicycle (or any bike for that matter) and compute its z-score. Take the price of your car or any car and compute its z-score. Compare the two z-score values against each other.

My nonscientific guess will be that a $10,000 bike will be statistically equivalent to a $100,000 car. Likewise, a $500 bike will be statistically equivalent to a $15,000 car.

Sorry for geeking out but I wanted to put to rest any overly simplified comparisons about a $10,000 bike being crazy while a $20,000 is normal. There's a reason for that kind of perception.

I plead to my fellow math cyclists who can correct me on what I just wrote. =)


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## stanseven (Nov 9, 2011)

rkdvsm said:


> I get what you're saying, but this isn't a fair comparison. Buying a $10,000 bike isn't the same as a $10,000 car simply because the actual cost of buying a car and its parts are more expensive than bike parts.
> 
> It's not a one-to-one comparison and the analogy makes more sense when you compare a $10,000 Colnago with something that is in the same league such as a Dodge Viper =)


Your rational is fine from a math perspective but it's not very logical. Someone who's a cycling enthusiast can buy a $10K with average to above average income by saving. It might take a while and that person needs to make some tough trade offs and pass spending money on other things but it's possible.

To buy a $100K car, you need a really substantial income and 10K in cash. In other words you need big money and I ont care how passionate you are, you can't save the money o buy it without financing.


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## rkdvsm (Jul 15, 2006)

stanseven said:


> Your rational is fine from a math perspective but it's not very logical. Someone who's a cycling enthusiast can buy a $10K with average to above average income by saving. It might take a while and that person needs to make some tough trade offs and pass spending money on other things but it's possible.
> 
> To buy a $100K car, you need a really substantial income and 10K in cash. In other words you need big money and I ont care how passionate you are, you can't save the money o buy it without financing.


There's no doubt about what you said. I totally agree. I guess my main point is to argue the idea that many people find it absurd to think that buying a $10,000 bike seems excessive while a $20,000 car seems reasonable.

My response to that is simply to say that a $10,000 bike seems absurd to people because it goes beyond what most people would spend on a bike (even for a nice, name brand, carbon fiber bike). A $20,000 car seems reasonable because the average price of brand new cars hovers right around that value. This is what people would typically spend.

Mind you, I am not saying that people who spend $10,000 on a bike is insane. I wouldn't spend that much, but I agree with everyone else's sentiments that buy what you like.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

enzo24 said:


> This is it - it's people who want to show off their money. Not a great quality in a person if you ask me.


I usually ride alone and in an area with minimal car and bike traffic. Just who am I trying to impress? The corn or the cows?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

CycoBob said:


> I'd be willing to bet that most non-pros who own a $12K are miserable.


Baaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahah. Good one. 










Care to guess how miserable I am when I ride these?


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## stanseven (Nov 9, 2011)

rkdvsm said:


> My response to that is simply to say that a $10,000 bike seems absurd to people because it goes beyond what most people would spend on a bike (even for a nice, name brand, carbon fiber bike). A $20,000 car seems reasonable because the average price of brand new cars hovers right around that value. This is what people would typically spend.


I see what you're saying now. To the average person $500 or $1,000 is a good bike. A $10K bike is 10-20 times that much. That equates to a $200,000 to $400,000 car!


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## qwertasdfg24 (Sep 18, 2012)

It's almost the same as guys who put money into their car.
It's a fancy toy and we all like the bling.


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## BunnV (Sep 7, 2005)

Life is too short to ride $hitty bikes


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## frank bautista (Jul 10, 2005)

one good reason, to keep you healthy and fit.
Medical bills is more expensive than your bike. you spend 5 k for a bike. How about open heart surgery? How much?


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## BlackIce619 (Sep 14, 2012)

$0-2K is a good price range for a bicycle. Anything above and beyond that is a bit much IMO. 

People fail to realize that your are the motor of the vehicle. :thumbsup:


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## BlackIce619 (Sep 14, 2012)

CycoBob said:


> [Loud buzzer sounds]
> 
> You could get the same exercise on a $99 Walmart bike.


That is my same opinion. I currently use cycling as a work out. Conditioning is my primary goal. I have to admit though that majority of the nice bicycles on the road usually have people with good conditioning on them. Maybe that is why I purchased a used one for $400 ... hahaha 

LETS RIDE!!!


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## wthensler (Aug 26, 2012)

Dreaming is free......riding can be big $$$ as we've all discovered....


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## CannondaleRushSynapse (Jun 1, 2012)

I think there are people that buy high end bikes just because they can.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

BlackIce619 said:


> $0-2K is a good price range for a bicycle. Anything above and beyond that is a bit much IMO.
> 
> People fail to realize that your are the motor of the vehicle. :thumbsup:


yea, yea, yea. And it's a lot cheaper to lose body weight than to buy lightweight bike stuff. Yea, we get it, they're among the most worn out truths in the sport, but have absolutely nothing to do with the hobby of enjoying high end gear.

But your first point that $2K is a good price range - I slightly disagree - really just a matter of degree. I think that _if you can afford it_, $3K or maybe $3.5 K is a good, reasonable, top price range. This will get you a pretty good, lightweight set of wheels, the top line mechanical group, and a name brand frame/fork within just a few ounces of the lightest possible. A $2K bike is excellent, sure, but I think a reasonable person _that can afford it_ will get a lot of pleasure for the additional $1k or so. 

On the other hand, I totally get the idea that _someone who can afford it_ might indeed get a lot of pleasure out of riding the $5-20K bike. Just like an amateur guitarist could really enjoy the expensive custom built guitar when a standard high end manufactured guitar (i.e. Martin, PRS, etc.), or maybe even a low end guitar, would "do" by any objective criteria. Many times, it's simply a guy who has really enjoyed the activity for many, many years and simply, for once in his life wants to get the "best" or wants custom features that are expensive to custom order.

I know I do get significant enjoyment out of bumping up the price point when I feel I can afford it - and I'm neither rich, nor a high perforiming rider, nor am I more than a pedestrian guitarist. But that much dough for a bicycle (or guitar) is child's play compared to what the average fat-arsed American thinks are reasonable and normal hobby, or optional costs:

annual data plan
annual cable bill
TV
TV
TV (listed three times because there's probably many "average" americans who own 2-3 expensive TVs.
Eating crap at McDonalds several times per month
Overspending on new cars

Modest fishing boats, snowmobiles, skiing, golf, fishing gear, cameras, ATVs, motorcycles, etc -maybe a little more affluent people, but well within what are considered "normal" hobbies which also involve a few thousand to get into, minimum. They're valuable and worthwhile activities and people simply can learn to enjoy the small nuances that the high end stuff brings.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

Camilo said:


> yea, yea, yea. And it's a lot cheaper to lose body weight than to buy lightweight bike stuff. Yea, we get it, they're among the most worn out truths in the sport, but have absolutely nothing to do with the hobby of enjoying high end gear.
> 
> But your first point that $2K is a good price range - I slightly disagree - really just a matter of degree. I think that _if you can afford it_, $3K or maybe $3.5 K is a good, reasonable, top price range. This will get you a pretty good, lightweight set of wheels, the top line mechanical group, and a name brand frame/fork within just a few ounces of the lightest possible. A $2K bike is excellent, sure, but I think a reasonable person _that can afford it_ will get a lot of pleasure for the additional $1k or so.
> 
> ...


Bike crap is so over priced. I built a pair of 1500 gr wheels for $230. A few grams heavier than ksyrium SLs, and they ride just as nice 

just sayin...


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

If I want to drop $12k on a bike, so what? It doesn't matter to any of you. It won't affect you negatively in any way. It WILL help fund further developments in cycling gear that does make it down to lower end components. So in reality, those of us that choose to spend our money on high end cycling gear have the effect of improving the equipment at all price points.

How people choose to spend their money is their own concern. Stop the jealousy. It doesn't lead to good outcomes. Instead be happy for your friend with the $12k bike.


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## CannondaleRushSynapse (Jun 1, 2012)

People are attention *****s.


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

CycoBob said:


> Since I got into cycling, I've genuinely tried to understand why people spend insane amounts of money for "high end" bikes. I thought that there must be good reasons- but this thread and others on the subject, always result in the same thing: People saying "because we can"; "Because we like to have nice things"; and calling others "jealous". I've yet to see any substantive explanations.
> 
> Sure, everyone can do what they want with their own money- just as people like myself can look upon the actions of such people as being rather foolish.
> 
> Seems to me, the more you pay, the more delicate and less durable the bikes are; and the more it costs to maintain and repair. I still don't see the benefit. I could go out tonight and buy a $12K bike and pay cash for it- but I'd be kicking myself in the butt tomorrow when I'm riding it, because I know that my ride would not be significantly improved- and I'd be asking myself "Why did I buy this?" every time I rode it. But if something about doing that makes you happy.....well, good for you. I would just love to know why- just I would like to know why other people do things which I consider foolish.


Different strokes. Some of us enjoy the gear, others not so much. We're all different, which helps keep things interesting. This would be a pretty boring place if we were all the same.

Fact is, some things can't be justified. Along with that, not everything needs to be. 

Ride what you enjoy riding and have fun. That is why we do it.


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## GOCOUGS2002 (Jul 27, 2009)

Some guys spend money at the strip club, my wife is ok with me spending it on a healthy hobby/obsession.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

CycoBob said:


> Since I got into cycling, I've genuinely tried to understand why people spend insane amounts of money for "high end" bikes. I thought that there must be good reasons- but this thread and others on the subject, always result in the same thing: People saying "because we can"; "Because we like to have nice things"; and calling others "jealous". I've yet to see any substantive explanations.
> 
> Sure, everyone can do what they want with their own money- just as people like myself can look upon the actions of such people as being rather foolish.
> 
> Seems to me, the more you pay, the more delicate and less durable the bikes are; and the more it costs to maintain and repair. I still don't see the benefit. I could go out tonight and buy a $12K bike and pay cash for it- but I'd be kicking myself in the butt tomorrow when I'm riding it, because I know that my ride would not be significantly improved- and I'd be asking myself "Why did I buy this?" every time I rode it. But if something about doing that makes you happy.....well, good for you. I would just love to know why- just I would like to know why other people do things which I consider foolish.


Because there is a difference. 12k is more than I care to spend but I think there is a significant difference of a 5k bike over a 1k bike. Speaking from experience.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

GOCOUGS2002 said:


> Some guys spend money at the strip club, my wife is ok with me spending it on a healthy hobby/obsession.


You only live once. Why not ride to the strip club?!?


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## Scotty Jasper (Sep 19, 2012)

For me its an addiction, I DO NOT need any more bikes, but I want them.. oh how I want them... Every time I enter a bike shop I want a new one.. I can only ride one at a time, its mad. 

I have now out grown my garage and had to buy a special bike store just for my bikes. My road bike has done 30 miles this year, mt MTB maybe 300, I have a hybrid which I clean a lot, A Crosser which is awesome and has done a thousands of miles this year, I am building a single speed and restoring a 70's Raleigh.. oh and 2 bike child trailers....
Oh and I have a helmet and outfit for each bike...... Sad or what

Scotty


Why do we spend so much money for a bicycle?
This is mostly for riders who have been cycling for many years and have had several different bikes in different price ranges. 

I wonder why someone (myself included) spends 3 or 4 times as much money for say, a carbon Cervelo as opposed to an aluminum Fuji if both have identical components and weigh about the same? There has to be a point/price of diminishing returns where the extra cost isn't buying more performance etc. 

In my case, I bought because of what I've read or heard from others and/or how the bike looks. I've had several bikes in different price ranges and different materials and can't say I could tell much difference between them. But I'm not a racer or even a 5-10k a year rider.


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## dgeesaman (Jun 9, 2010)

NJBiker72 said:


> Because there is a difference. 12k is more than I care to spend but I think there is a significant difference of a 5k bike over a 1k bike. Speaking from experience.


Just about everything that exists has a cost/value "curve".

At the low end of the price scale, spending more gets you more value. Most would agree, a $2000 bike is nicer/better/lighter than a $1000 bike. In my experience, it's a real difference in product, all brand and image differences aside. I would even extend that to say a $3000 bike is a noticeably different product than a $2000 bike. I just built a bike for $3300 and it's significantly nicer than my $1500 bike.

But going from $4000 to $5000, or $10000 to $11000, is a much smaller difference, and tends to come with hidden costs of reduced durability. It becomes very arguable that spending additional money in this range is even making a significant difference.

It's the magical point in between these ranges - the "knee" in the curve that I find most interesting.

Compared to other durable good, bicycles are harder to characterize. Some people spend money to achieve different things - some place value in parts manufactured in the US or Europe. Some place value in uniqueness, and will spend money to ride equipment that few others have. Some simply fall in lust with the appearance of the very high end gear, and I won't argue that the expensive stuff usually looks better. I'm an engineer, so I place a lot of value on light weight, strength, performance, but I also will spend some (not loads) on buying good looking parts from brands that have European or US manufacturing. The knee in of all of these value/cost curves would be different.

So we can argue all day about it, but until we define the aspects of value we will simply be collecting anecdotal points of incongruent data.

David


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

dgeesaman said:


> Just about everything that exists has a cost/value "curve".
> 
> At the low end of the price scale, spending more gets you more value. Most would agree, a $2000 bike is nicer/better/lighter than a $1000 bike. In my experience, it's a real difference in product, all brand and image differences aside. I would even extend that to say a $3000 bike is a noticeably different product than a $2000 bike. I just built a bike for $3300 and it's significantly nicer than my $1500 bike.
> 
> ...



I agree. I think the marginal benefit decreases as we go up the curve. My 5k bike is "less better" than my 1k bike compared with hor much better the 1k bike was over the $300 bike. But there is a noticeable difference. And a noticeable difference over the 3k ones I tested before going for this one.

Stiffer, lighter. Better bottom bracket (not sure what the technical term is). But better power transfer and lighter weight make climbing better, which was my main objective in upgrading. 

I do find it funny how some just love the name brands. Was doing a Gran Fondo and listening to these guys at a rest stop brag on their Campy components and how all the other stuff was cheap Asian crap.

Oh well, I love my Sram Red components.


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## kraegar (Sep 5, 2012)

I spent $500 early this year to get a trek FX 7.2, and then spent $1300 to upgrade from that to a Felt F6. I decided that for me it was worth it to upgrade because I'm spending so much time (more than 10 - 12 hours a week) on my bike, and I'd rather spend that time riding something I enjoy more, if I can afford it.

At the same time, for my budget, spending more on a bike made no sense, as I didn't see the need (not racing) nor any increase in pleasure / enjoyment / comfort for spending more and going past my budget. I suspect the same decisions come into play for each person here. Finding where on the cost/reward curve the need/desire for a bike puts them. And it will be different for every person.


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

If you think high end bikes and cycling components are crazy $ to spend because of marginal Return on Investment, I suggest you spend some time in the Audio/Visual forums, just for comparison purposes...

...no, wait, many of you probably already do...


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

CycoBob said:


> I find the psychology behind such behavior interesting. I guess it varies from person to person- everything from the hoarder mentality; to those seeking status; to the ignorant, who think they are getting some benefit that really isn't there.
> 
> At least here on this forum, some are honest enough to admit that they buy really expensive stuff just for the aesthetics. Maybe I'm more practical, because when I buy something, I pay with cold hard cash. I mean, you hand somebody a check or a piece of plastic for something, there's really no difference between a price of a dollar or $10K- it'
> s just a number. But when you're peeling off Ben Franklins, suddenly the pile in your hand represents more value, and there's a big difference between handing over a few bills, or a whole pile.


You missed something in that first paragraph. I can't talk about others motivations for buying a 'halo' bike. Just my own.

You missed that some of us spend that kind of cash on a bike because we enjoy the nice equipment. Why does there have to be some underlying psychosis to it? 

In my case, I bought a custom CF frameset because there were a number of things about my BMC that annoyed me. From handling to ride characteristics. The opportunity to buy a fully custom (not just geometry, but ride characteristics too) bike built to complement my riding style was just too interesting to resist. 

I didn't buy it because I'm insecure, or want to impress anyone, or anything else. I bought it simply because it's exactly what I want in a bike. There's no need to judge me on your (generic 'your', not specific to CycoBob) value system. As I've said before, we're all different with different priorities on spending. 

Incidentally, when I bought my $12k bike, I paid in cash. Not plastic, not a debit or credit card. Cash.

Sheesh, this reads like I'm trying to justify it. I'm not, just trying to explain a perspective that some of you don't seem to want to accept.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

JoelS said:


> I didn't buy it because I'm insecure, or want to impress anyone


Right on buddy! This thread is so full of pathetic jealous and resentful losers it's hilarious!

You know who is really insecure? It's those who think someone is going to go out and blow $10k on a bike to impress them. How is some moreon's opinion so valuable that I or anyone else is going to do that? 
Get a clue losers, your opinion means nothing to me, other than proof of your own shortcomings.


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## greg12666 (Mar 29, 2012)

Becuase Americans are addicted to buying stuff they do not need. IE another Apple Iphone !!!!


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## dcorn (Sep 1, 2011)

JoelS said:


> You missed that some of us spend that kind of cash on a bike because we enjoy the nice equipment. Why does there have to be some underlying psychosis to it?
> 
> 
> Incidentally, when I bought my $12k bike, I paid in cash. Not plastic, not a debit or credit card. Cash.


I agree, having the nicest stuff in the sport is really cool. Can't say that about many racing sports that some every day Joe can ride the same equipment as the pros. 



And honestly, you paying in cash doesn't mean you can afford the bike more than anyone else. I don't see the point in making that statement. I'd say it's smarter for me to buy the bike on a credit card and get $120 on the 1% cash back, then paying it off that month. Or who cares if I pay it off over time if I have 0% interest anyway.


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## kraegar (Sep 5, 2012)

I did also upgrade for another reason - I'm working my way towards a goal of a 150 mile ride at the end of next summer, along with a group of friends. They've all got road bikes, and I was having some real trouble keeping up with them on the Trek FX. Not having any problems hanging with the group now that I'm on a road bike.

I still spent more than I strictly needed to


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

CycoBob said:


> That would qualify as "aesthetics", would it not?


Not really. For example, one of the things that annoyed me about my BMC was the handling. It has a fairly high trail (68 I think) which leads to a stable ride, but also makes it a bit more problematic to change line in corners. My new bike has a very short trail of 53. It also has a slightly lower BB. The end result is much snappier handling and very easy to change lines in corners. Some folks would call it "very twitchy", but I really like it.

There were other specific issues I had with the BMC. It's a fine bike, but it just isn't quite right for me.

So in this case, the custom bike was to address particular 'shortcomings' of another bike I own. I don't think that falls into aesthetics.



CycoBob said:


> And kudos for paying cash!! (You've actually topped me... I think my biggest cash purchase to date was $10K)


Thanks.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

why would you want to change lines in corners?


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

foto said:


> why would you want to change lines in corners?


Going around a blind corner on a road and find some sand or other debris in your line? That's just one potential issue that can come up when bombing down a technical descent. I'm sure you can figure out others :thumbsup:.


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## rayovolks (Dec 13, 2007)

Cycling is a hobby for most, and like any other leisure activity people will spend what they want to spend for their own enjoyment.

The thread title could easily be:

Why do we spend so much money for cameras and lenses?
Why do we spend so much money for radio control cars/boats/airplanes?
Why do we spend so much money for model railroads or scale models?
Why do we spend so much money for camping equipment?
Why do we spend so much money for guns, ammo and range fees?
Why do we spend so much money for golf clubs, balls, and green fees?
ad infinitum depeding on the particular hobby forum on the internet.


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## Ian45 (Jun 10, 2011)

I just like nice stuff and bikes of course are not excluded. I cannot think of a nice thing that I have bought that I regretted. I also do not have $12,000 bikes because I cannot afford them. My main xc bike and road bike are in the $4000 range each. My new cycle cross will be similar.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

CycoBob said:


> At least here on this forum, some are honest enough to admit that they buy really expensive stuff just for the aesthetics. Maybe I'm more practical, because when I buy something, I pay with cold hard cash. I mean, you hand somebody a check or a piece of plastic for something, there's really no difference between a price of a dollar or $10K- it'
> s just a number. But when you're peeling off Ben Franklins, suddenly the pile in your hand represents more value, and there's a big difference between handing over a few bills, or a whole pile.
> 
> I just find the whole subject fascinating.


After reading your posts here and in other threads, I have come to the opinion that you are not nearly as happy as you say you are. Your posts are largely judgmental and/or extremely opinionated to such an extent that I find them distasteful. Your long anecdotes about your situation and/or the situations of people you know are also just as distasteful. 

People buy what they buy for all sorts of reasons. All reasons are as valid as the next. What they buy, how they buy it, why they buy it and what they do with it all have nothing to do with anything other than people doing what they want. You can mention your $350 bike all day long, but doing so says nothing to me. 

As for your opinion about buying things with "cold hard cash", you are simply wrong. You are losing value. I use my AMEX Starwood card for almost all my purchases AND EXPENSES. I then pay off the card in full each month. You have no idea how much added value, in points and free things, this provides. You are throwing your money away and I have no idea why.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

CycoBob said:


> *Isn't what you said "judgmental"? *(And believe me, I'm as happy as a human being can be, as I am living exactly the lifestyle that I desire.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ahahahaha!!!


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## stanseven (Nov 9, 2011)

CycoBob said:


> Not a bad idea using Amex and paying it off in full- mainly for the free extened warranties. To me, the free gifts/bonuses/etc. aren't worth the hassle of keeping track of them or enduring the resultant junk mail. My main reasons for using cash is: a)privacy. b)
> the fact that it has been documented that people who use non-cash forms of payment (even debit cards) spend [I think the number was] 17% more on average. So you get 1% back...I save 17%... Nyah!
> 
> Oh...and [especially on bigger purchases] you can usually cut a better deal with cash- as the merchant saves at least 4% by not having to process a CC. (In the old days, Amex used to charge them 10%!!! But I think they stopped that)


I use Amex on everything I can and get back more than 1% - closer to 2% based on frequent purchases of gas, food, restaurants, and work travel. Almost all of them are not discretionary (except you might say not ordering some items on the menu eating out).

Also credit cards often are many times more convenient than cash. For example try paying cash at a busy service station, get airline tickets online, buy large dollar value items, etc.


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## tnvol123 (Sep 11, 2012)

People just like nice things and tend to buy the highest quality they can in whatever they are into. Bikes are no different. I have about 4k invested in 4 bikes. Not very much but they all do what I want them to do at this point and I'm quite happy with what I have.


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## Charl55es (Sep 20, 2012)

I love buying things and I love the feeling I get while I'm using them.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

CycoBob said:


> Isn't what you said "judgmental"?


Yes it is. I don't want to harp on the issue or to continue to be overly critical. Having said that, arguing in a vacuum, I would say that there is a difference between a pattern of continued behavior directed at groups of people and a one time criticism of such continued behavior. So yes, even if a one time criticism in one post is judgmental, it is not the equivalent of continued behavior. Mitigating factors can also apply.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

CycoBob said:


> Just FYI: If you have a company-issued Amex, do you know that when one signs up for such, they are actually consenting to be personally responsible for the ENTIRE debt of the employer's Amex line of credit if the company should ever default on payment???


did you read this on the internet...?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

This whole thread is starting to smell like people claiming that they don't hate people with money and they're not jealous, only to proceed to hate on people with money and be very jealous.


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## DocRogers (Feb 16, 2006)

I have about a dozen bikes at present, all of which put together aren't worth as much as one high end race bike. They're all great bikes, they all get ridden, they're all fun for different reasons, and most of them are a little unusual. I know people who spend a couple of grand on golf clubs, which is insane to me. I guess I'm trying to say that I don't care if it cost $250 or $10,000, if you like it and it's good for you, then ride it and enjoy it.


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## Coastrider (Feb 14, 2005)

That's It.


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## Robitaille20 (Jan 4, 2012)

Why do the people buy big expansive cars ? useless discussion :mad2:


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

CycoBob said:


> <snip>
> 
> Conversely, I don't envy anyone with a $10K bike. They may be happy as a clam with such a bike, but to me, such a bike would be a liability and a hindrance; something to have to worry about (Be careful where I lean it, don't scratch it! Don't ever let it out of your sight, it will be stolen! Oh no!, the seat clamp broke 'cause I over-torqued it, and it will cost $600 for a new one!!....). I think if I had such a bike, cycling would start becoming more about the bike and paraphernalia and fashion, than about the ride and freedom and the simplicity and basicness that makes cycling so attractive to me.
> 
> <snip>


It's all a matter of perspective. Not all of us are as concerned as you seem to be by scratching, inadvertently breaking something, etc. For example, if you suddenly won the lottery and had 50mil in the bank and under investment, I expect your attitude would change as you would easily be able to afford replacement. In the end, the price of the thing is irrelevant. It's still just a bike.

We seem to enjoy different aspects of the hobby/sport/pastime/whatever. That's cool. But your post above (not out of intent I'm sure) also has the effect of disparaging those with pricey bikes. Many of your posts come across this way. I'm going to assume that you don't mean that. Body language is lost when communicating in an online forum. It's very important to reread and edit your posts so that your intent is clear in the phrasing and you don't accidentally say or imply something you don't mean.



CycoBob said:


> Just my take on it. But I can't imagine anyone with a mega-dollar bike having as much enjoyment as the guy with the $158 cruiser.


Again, perspective. Just because you can't imagine it, doesn't mean it isn't true.


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## lawlz_xD (Sep 22, 2012)

I haven't been riding long at all but this question can be asked in most other hobbies and by extension, answered with the same mindset. Why do people spend so much money on cars, on houses, on computers, on audio equipment, and so forth? Surely, anyone could simply buy a Geo Metro and have an A to B car. Someone could buy a 1 bedroom/1 bath house and have a place to live. Someone could buy a $200 laptop with a single-core processor and 200MB of RAM and have a computer to use.

Similarly, you could buy a $50 bike from Wal Mart and have a bike to ride, but people spend so much money on their hobbies because they love it. They love tweaking things, seeing what makes their bikes ride better and faster, look better, and so forth. Most of the time, people are paying for the experience of the hobby, not the practicality of it all. If someone wanted to be practical and money conscience, they'd just stick with the $50 bike from Wal Mart.


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## redvving19 (Sep 22, 2012)

Did I need a carbon bike...no, a tiagra aluminum bike would done just fine. Its my one hobby and generally a cheap one at that.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

CycoBob said:


> Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I absolutely am not trying to disparage anyone who owns an expensive bike- and I appreciate you pointing out the fact that *I may come across as doing that.*





CycoBob said:


> I'd be willing to bet that most non-pros who own a $12K are miserable.


May have?


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## Got Time (Jan 23, 2009)

CycoBob said:


> I still don't understand why people buy uber-expensive bikes


Is it really that complicated?

It seems you lack imagination and the capability to understand other people. You might want to read some fantasy books for the first, and some psychology books for the latter. Moreover, you might want to get in touch with other people and talk with them in real life...

Last, but not least, this thread should probably be continued in "the lounge", as this behaviour isn't specific to bicycles (as many people tried to explain to you).


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

CycoBob said:


> The sad thing is, despite a few pages of discussion, I still don't understand why people buy uber-expensive bikes- and maybe the very title of this thread- "Why Do WE Buy..." is a hint that I never will, because the very people who buy them don't seem to know  -


I exactly know why I bought an expensive bike. I've tried to get it across, but it's not such an easy thing to do. I expect that other folks that choose to spend hard earned money on expensive bikes also know.

I'll try one last time.

I've but about 18,000 mi on a BMC ProMachine. It may fall into your category of "uber expensive bikes", though it was about $6500. After all those miles I found a few things about the bike that annoyed me in both handling and "feel". What those things are aren't germane, just please accept it at face value. And I'll also add that those things are entirely subjective. Others I know with the same bike don't have the complaints that I did.

I decided to replace it with a custom bike that addressed all those annoying little things. I test rode a few very high end bikes and they suffered from the same thing, so custom was the way to go. The custom bike DID address all those things and I absolutely love the way it rides. I'm very pleased with my purchase and haven't felt like I needed to 2nd guess it.

I wouldn't have replaced it with the bike I did had I now been able to afford it, or afford to replace it if something happens.

Whether you would be happy with a bike like that or not is something that only you can answer. I don't drive an expensive car (though I could). Instead I have an old, not too beat up, 1999 Toyota Tacoma pickup. I'm happy with the truck and see no need to replace it. My wife drives a little Honda Fit. And she's very happy with that car. She could have bought a more expensive car, we just don't place any priority on that. We look at cars as transportation. I expect if I put 20,000 mi a year on my car, it would be a different issue. Instead, I only put about 4,000 on the car. I do put 8,000+ on my bike. So I want that to be perfect. We have a small house that fits our needs. We have no desire to "upgrade" that. 

Maybe you bought the new iPhone 5. That's something I have no interest in. I'm perfectly content with my little flip phone and do place a priority on the much higher monthly charge for data and such that goes with something like the iPhone.

It really does boil down to priorities and what we want out of our stuff - be it a bicycle, a car, house, etc. There may be other aspects in your life where you are happy to spend a bunch of money to buy high-end. Be it clothes, shoes, house, golf, or something else. Maybe your wife/GF likes jewelry or interesting shoes. We're all different in this regard. We don't need to understand others motives. It may be fodder for discussion, but not everyone is willing to disclose that. 

I'm happy for you that you are happy with your current bike and have no desire to buy a more expensive one. I'm glad you spend time riding it and enjoy that.

I don't know if that is enough for you or not, I don't know that I can be more clear in this discussion medium.


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

Ah grasshopper, you are starting to comprehend  Incidentally, I appreciate your openmindedness (not sure if that's a word or not) and willingness on this issue.

Would you notice a difference? Absolutely. Is it enough for you to buy a high end bike? That's a decision that ONLY you can make. You might go do some test riding at a local shop to get an idea. It might help you to understand.

I am also in the process of buying yet another high end custom bike. This one will be steel, set up for cantilever brakes (in case I decide to try cross or ride some light singletrack with my kids), racks, and full fenders for the winter rains that come down much of the winter. I'm going to move most of the bits and pieces from my BMC over to it. The frame builder has some sort of dip tank with electro-something-or-other to lay down a very solid anti-corrosion coating to prevent rust. It'll make an outstanding bad weather bike. Then I'm going to sell that BMC frameset.

Then I'll be set and won't buy another bike for a while. Though my wife has expressed some interest in a steel like I'm getting.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

CycoBob said:


> I barely ride 100 miles a week, and have no complaints...yet.


Aha! This explains everything, including why you put your $359 bike on a pedestal. Please continue to enjoy your life and "ride" your bike without disparaging cyclists.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Tschai said:


> Aha! This explains everything, including why you put your $359 bike on a pedestal. Please continue to enjoy your life and "ride" your bike without disparaging cyclists.


Yeah. I have a base model car and a high end bike. I spend 5 minutes a day in the car and can ride the bike for 7 or 8 hours. Guess which I would rather spend the money on.


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

^^^^ this spam above is actually the most relevant post in this thread!


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## FindTheRiver (May 26, 2012)

It's just like anything else. You spend money and time on what's important to you. It's one of the things that makes life worth living and the daily grind more tolerable. Some people love cars, others geek-out on the latest tech gadgets or collect guitars. Still others like to party themselves away. To each their own.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Tschai said:


> Aha! This explains everything, including why you put your $359 bike on a pedestal. Please continue to enjoy your life and "ride" your bike without disparaging cyclists.


Those "depressed" guys with $12k bikes are putting more than 100 miles on their $12k bikes in a weekend with a few rides during the week. Yeah, he has this whole cycling thing figured out.


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## OhioCruiser (Sep 23, 2012)

*money*

I don't know - I've never bought one new before. I tend to get my things on Craigslist, and I just bought my son a bike at a yard sale. Paying about 20% of retail is the way to go! Plus, I guess I just like the thought of buying an older bike that was more likely made in the USA.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

spade2you said:


> Those "depressed" guys with $12k bikes are putting more than 100 miles on their $12k bikes in a weekend with a few rides during the week. Yeah, he has this whole cycling thing figured out.


Agreed. As an added fact, the headphones I use when riding cost more than his bike. I wonder what that makes me?


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## Flac Vest (Jul 16, 2012)

Because that's what people do when they have a hobby they love, they spend tons of money on it.

If people have the cash, they'll spend it on things they like; honestly, I think it's more of a concentrated spending on bicycles rather than random "stuff" around the house.

I've gone to many a friend's parents' houses (I'm in college) and have seen boats, fitness equipment, and just random stuff that costs a lot but doesn't get used often. 

But personally, I only own my 05 Allez, and if I were to get another bike it would be a higher end one for racing, and I'd switch between the two for training/racing, or whatever. 

But that's just because I don't have the money.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

CycoBob said:


> That is what one calls consumerism. It is not a normal state of being, but rather something induced by marketing and advertising. People go out and buy all sorts of crap at retail prices, then after it sits in the basement unused for a few years/becomes obsolete/the fad wears off, they sell it at a yard sale for pennies on the dollar.
> 
> I'm constantly amazed by how people who really can't afford it (they HAVE to go into debt to pay for it) will buy brand new jet skis [which they may use a few times a year] or boats or quads, etc. ad infinitum- and even pay interest on top of the price..... and some of 'em are so strapped for cash that when the toy breaks, they can't even afford to fix it.
> 
> ...


If this is what you think of cyclists and the members of RBR, then why are you here? 

I'm going to be honest with ya. Those $12k bikes you're obsessed and jealous over are NOT $12k. Even with power cranks, neither of the bikes I posted several pages back were $12k bikes. 

As for "fads", many of us have been riding thousands of miles per year for many years. My mileage will inevitably go down with kids, but I can't see myself ever quitting.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

CycoBob said:


> LOL! I just love how I can make a generic, generalized statement about a segment of the general population...and it gets twisted into being about RBR members, and even taken personally by you, specifically!
> 
> Believe me, I am not "jealous". I could go out and buy a $12K bike tonight and pay cash for (without stopping at an ATM)- I have considerably more money than that not five feet from where I am typing this......but I would consider it foolhardy FOR ME to do such, as I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between that $12K bike and my current bike.
> 
> ...


Then take your 12k and get a decent bike. And stop criticizing people that take the sport seriously. 

Smells like jealousy to me.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

CycoBob said:


> Yes, I'll run right out and do that- I desperately need a $12K bike to ride 100 miles a week. The dogs who I stop and pet will be impressed! I just so wish I had a $12K bike...I hear the wheels on them fancy bikes are ROUND!!!
> 
> I really can't justify devoting more time to riding than I already do [Waits for all to jump on me for that, next...] - My only option is to get faster, so I can do more miles in the same time....and that comes by working on the engine, not buying a better bike.
> 
> When I get so good that my bike is the only thing holding me back...then maybe I'll consider getting a $1200-$1500 bike.....or when things start breaking on this bike (as it would be silly to upgrade a cheap bike, considering the price of components)


Fine. SO you are not serious about it. Don't mock those who are. 

I may not ride a $12k bike but $5k fit the budget and works for me. I appreciate the responsiveness, the light weight, and the stiffness. 

I have had cheaper bikes but this one I am satisfied with.

I can feel the difference and it has helped me improve my riding. 

I would rather spend the money on that than a luxury car or a bigger TV. So be it. 

Don't mock others. With what is obviously jealousy and then brag on your supposed wealth.


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## RIL49 (Apr 27, 2012)

I look at it from the perspective of cycling as a hobby. That being the case, why not spend what one can afford to enhance the pleasure of their hobby? Aside from basic survival, what is life all about anyway? Sure, one can enjoy cycling with a much less expensive bike. But if you have the means, go for it.

For the record, I am not one of the wealthier ones with an expensive bike, relatively speaking.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

CycoBob said:


> I could go out and buy a $12K bike tonight and pay cash for (without stopping at an ATM)- I have considerably more money than that not five feet from where I am typing this......but I would consider it foolhardy FOR ME to do such, as I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between that $12K bike and my current bike.


Huh? You have tens of thousands of dollars in cash lying around??? Talk about foolhardy. 

Although, I hear there's certain, uhmm, "special" kinds of businesses where dealing with cash only is considered mandatory. Maybe that's the ticket here.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Pirx said:


> Huh? You have tens of thousands of dollars in cash lying around??? Talk about foolhardy.
> 
> Although, I hear there's certain, uhmm, "special" kinds of businesses where dealing with cash only is considered mandatory. Maybe that's the ticket here.


In that business you usually want a cheap bike for when the 5.0 confiscate it.


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## Peter_Klim (Oct 7, 2007)

CycoBob said:


> ...
> Believe me, I am not "jealous". I could go out and buy a $12K bike tonight and pay cash for (without stopping at an ATM)- I have considerably more money than that not five feet from where I am typing this......but I would consider it foolhardy FOR ME to do such...


Ok, I want to hear this story...

Why do you "foolhardy" have have that much cash in a shoebox or under your pillow? You're not one of those old farts that thinks the bank is stealing your money, are ya? 

BTW, what is your address? I just want to come over to...just share bike riding stories


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## Peter_Klim (Oct 7, 2007)

CycoBob said:


> I'd be willing to bet that most non-pros who own a $12K are miserable.
> 
> ...[Impressing people whom I don't even care enough about to want to ride with, is not a benefit]


Let's find out Bob.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=4112140#post4112140


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## LandShark'n (Jan 10, 2011)

Wow. What a pissing match this has become!

But what an appropriate time for this topic. I was paging through an issue of Bicycling and saw in one article they had a $16,000 Pinarello, a $12,000 Specialized, and an $11,000 Trek. I looked in disbelief at these prices, not that I couldn't pay it (because I could if I planned carefully and wanted to cut back on things like my mortgage, health care, food, etc.) but simply because I couldn't find the value in a bike that expensive. Hey, if you do and can afford it, more power to you.

As for me, the bike seems to disappear from beneath me once I get rolling; it doesn't matter what I am riding as long as I _am_ riding.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

CycoBob said:


> I am NOT mocking anyone! Seriously, what is wrong with you and some others on here? I [now]understand why some choose to ride very expensive bikes. YOU need to understand thast in ANY hobby/activity, there are many people these days who spend a disproportinate amount of money relative to their income on things that don't really benefit them that much, or which they can not really afford. THOSE are the people I was referring to in my earlier post this morning. [Reading is fundamental!]
> 
> I appreciate those [Like Joel] who have taken the time and effort to enlighten me as to why some people do spend a lot of money on a bike- and how indeed it does benefit them, but some of you are just being silly- likely because some of things I say paint a picture of yourselves, even though swuch was not meant to.
> 
> ...


I have explained why i spent the money obtaining he bike. Worth it. Easily. Even if the bike was about 1/4 the price of the car. I would rather drive an economy car and ride a great bike. 

Do you drive a yugo? Why not?


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## Peter_Klim (Oct 7, 2007)

CycoBob said:


> C'mon over...I'll introduce you to Mr. Shotgun and Miss Pitbull....
> 
> Hey, I just have a small safe- I'm not rich....you'd be better off visiting a friend of mine, who has a huge safe, with gold and silver in it...the whole nine yards.....


LOL!

But seriously Bob, you remind me of my dad's uncle back in the 70's who was well off from investing in the stock market, yet lived in an old shack house, newspapers piled up everywhere, and his bathroom was an outhouse. The floor in the house was just ply wood. Do you enjoy having lots of money, but not spending it? Is your joy in knowing how much money you have and will accumulate? Some people do, and I am not saying that is wrong, just saying that is not me. 

I do follow what you say as far as living within your means. I used credit cards, but always pay it off in full. Each month, my bank statments show I have an increase. I'm not rich, but I do ok. 

My 1st road bike (besides the one I purchased as a teen, I am 43 now) was in 2008 from Bike Direct on a closeout cost. $1500 (forgot the reg price). THis summer I spent $1250 on a decent carbon fiber frameset (normally $2500). Big purchase items i always look for a bargain. 

You put more miles a week than i do. I only have under 500 miles on the bike (that includes the old frame!). But i can defininitely feel the improvement. I suggest you go to you LBS and try a $1500 bike (you posted before you may spend that much one day) as well as a $3K and a $12K bike. THen you will know what everyone her is talking about 

Or maybe you will not know. And that is cool too. Just like I don't know the difference between a $5 bottle of wine or a $100 bottle. But I don't judge people for spending all that money on wine and says things like they "must be miserable". Don't worry so much in trying to understand people's purchasing habits. Everyone is different. 

I'm not afraid to admit that my main reason for bying a nicer framest is simply because I like the way Pinarello bikes look. But not to impress anyone. It pleases MY eyes. In fact, a lot of folks think they look ugly with the wavey fork. Because it pleases my eyes, it makes me want to ride more - and that it has helped me ride more now since I got it. Just like purchasing bike magazines, more clothes an even being active in this forum. These things motivate me to ride more.

The added benefit with purchasing my frame is that I feel a difference. Your only expectations in spending more $$$ on a bike it so you can go faster and do more miles. What about the feel of the bike? The smoothness of the ride. The feel of how smooth the stearing is, the smoothness of the rotation of the cranks, the feel how the brakes levers are, the smoothness of the shifting? I can't think of the word, but when you apply the brakes, it;s not just completely off or on, but you can feel the way it gradually is squeezing the rim. There is so much more than just speed and distance as well as more than what I mention. So just go and try bikes at various price ranges (up to $12K!)

Bob, I've read a lot of your posts and replies to them. I don't think anyone thinks your a bad person at all. I just think that you need to be ok with knowing that people think differently, and have different priorities on how they spend their money. Sometimes it seems like you do not want to accept that. No hard feelings.


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## AndreyT (Dec 1, 2011)

This very question has been asked here less than two weeks ago

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/ge...o-we-buy-expensive-bikes-upgrades-289525.html

Someone is simply trolling the forum under different IDs by asking the same question. Why are the folks here so easy to dupe into feeding the trolls?

Back then I provided the straight answer to the question, which basically closed the matter in less than two pages.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/ge...ensive-bikes-upgrades-289525.html#post4083867

This time I decided to let it be and look what happened!


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## Peter_Klim (Oct 7, 2007)

CycoBob said:


> And ask your grandfather how foolhardy it was about 80 years ago to have money in a bank.....
> 
> Now I remember why I never much cared for the cycling crowd when I lived in the city- because most of them are donkey excavations....


Reality check: The year is 2012, not 1932. And why did the banks lose all that money? Because people wrongfully thought (throug rumors) that the banks had no money and wanted to store it in a safe like you are doing now. When your house burns down of someone with a machine gun comes over, that will be the end of it.

Now Bob, in my last post I wrote that I don't think anyone thinks you're a bad person. That was before I read this post. That was a bad thing for you to write. Again, you are generalizing "most" cyclist.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

CycoBob said:


> I am NOT mocking anyone! Seriously, what is wrong with you and some others on here? I [now]understand why some choose to ride very expensive bikes. YOU need to understand thast in ANY hobby/activity, there are many people these days who spend a disproportinate amount of money relative to their income on things that don't really benefit them that much, or which they can not really afford. THOSE are the people I was referring to in my earlier post this morning. [Reading is fundamental!]
> 
> I appreciate those [Like Joel] who have taken the time and effort to enlighten me as to why some people do spend a lot of money on a bike- and how indeed it does benefit them, but some of you are just being silly- likely because some of things I say paint a picture of yourselves, even though swuch was not meant to.
> 
> ...


Well, you seem to have upset quite a few people. I doubt we are all a$$hats. As I said earlier, your posts and opinions are disparaging and distasteful. I also am growing tired of hearing about your cash habits. I doubt you buy your tractors or whatever you buy on the spur of the moment. There is no reason you can't keep your cash in the bank and earn interest. People that are truly smart with their money don't waste it by keeping large amounts of cash at home. You are simply throwing your money away. As to your comment about what happened 80 years ago, it just shows how little you know about money.


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## CycoBob (Aug 1, 2012)

Peter_Klim said:


> LOL!
> 
> But seriously Bob, you remind me of my dad's uncle back in the 70's who was well off from investing in the stock market, yet lived in an old shack house, newspapers piled up everywhere, and his bathroom was an outhouse. The floor in the house was just ply wood. Do you enjoy having lots of money, but not spending it? Is your joy in knowing how much money you have and will accumulate? Some people do, and I am not saying that is wrong, just saying that is not me.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Peter,

Naw, I'm not like your uncle. While I might not live extravagantly, I do live nicely- to the point that virtually everyone who knows me thinks that I far more well-off than I really am. As you've probably figured out by now, to me, it's about value. I maximize the value I get out of my money and the things that I buy, so I can live a nice lifestyle, without having to devote all my time to working and being in a high tax bracket, etc. 

Yes, I would like to test ride some bikes of varying degrees of value, just to see for myself what they're all about. Unfortunately, there isn't an LBS within 200 miles of here that would sell such bikes. Nearest LBS about 60 milers away has 2 road bikes- the lowest model Trek, and one other one, that I'm not even familiar with.

But I fail to understand why so many on here are taking this so personally! I'm merely stating my perceptions. When I said that I'd imagine that most people with a $12K bike must be miserable, I was saying so from my perspective, imagining that those who would buy such a bike would be doing so expecting unrealistic things. Some of you took the time to explain to me why some serious cyclists are willing to pay such money for a bike- and now I understand. Even though it would not be something I'd be likely to do, I do now understand that it is a worthwhile thing for some to do.

I thought that that was obvious by now....but so many on here are acting as though it is not. 

Really, I have no problem accepting how others spend their money (unless they're on the dole or something...)- as I've said repeatedly in this thread, I just wanted to understand WHY- as the idea of $12K bikes seemed absurd to me. But now at least, some of the more reasonable posters have helped me to understand. Which is not to say that there aren't a lot of people in our society today who are spending silly amounts of money for things which are not of lasting value (At least a good bike will last for quite some time...). 

And yes, I can appreciate the aesthetics of a nicer bike. If I upgrade (which I likely will, sooner or later) it will be for those aesthetics of feel and smoothness, etc. 

You have to remember, I'm new to cycling [I mean "bike riding"  ) and I came into this seeing people who obsess over saving a few ounces of weight and spending hundreds of dollars to do so, when doing such doesn't make a dime's worth of difference to their cycling.......so you have to understand that it is sometimes hard for me to take cyclists seriously- and naturally, the same mindset carried over to the idea of $12K bikes. 

But hey, I've enjoyed this thread...and I've learned a lot on this forum...and have only lost respect for a few posters....so it's all good.


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## CycoBob (Aug 1, 2012)

Peter_Klim said:


> Reality check: The year is 2012, not 1932. And why did the banks lose all that money? Because people wrongfully thought (throug rumors) that the banks had no money and wanted to store it in a safe like you are doing now. When your house burns down of someone with a machine gun comes over, that will be the end of it.
> 
> Now Bob, in my last post I wrote that I don't think anyone thinks you're a bad person. That was before I read this post. That was a bad thing for you to write. Again, you are generalizing "most" cyclist.


Aw, C'mon now. Really? You don't think we're at the edge of just as bad of a precipice today as we were in 1929? Our country is in such steep debt, that it now surpasses the value of all assets in the Western world, and the only options left are default or hyperinflation? 

The FDIC does not have the assets to cover one tenth of insured deposits.

And your reason for the failures of the 1930's is erroneous. It wasn't until after the bank failures that people lost trust in banks- and that was only a small percentage of people. ONE of the reasons those banks failed, was because many people needed their own money because of the hard times, but since the banks could lend out 1000% more than they actually had on deposit, they simply did not have the cash of even 10% of the depositors. Then they started making things even worse, by calling in mortgages and loans.... Well, you get the idea.

We're in far worse shape today- add to the above: The fact that most consumers are heavily in debt; the bursting of the real-estate bubble/banks holding tons of foreclosures; and...well..this really isn't the place for it...but you get the idea. 

Back in the late 1990's people I knew were making fun of me for not getting in on the dot com frenzy. They prospered briefly, and it was looking good for them- but then the bubble burst, and most whom I knew lost more than they made. Many even lost their homes. (I was trading commodity futures at the time, and even bailed on that- just before the big crash of '01)

Those who don't learn from history are destined to repeat it..... (I learned a lot, as my grandparent were immigrants, raising 7 kids in the middle of the Great Depression)


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## CycoBob (Aug 1, 2012)

Tschai said:


> Well, you seem to have upset quite a few people. I doubt we are all a$$hats. As I said earlier, your posts and opinions are disparaging and distasteful. I also am growing tired of hearing about your cash habits. I doubt you buy your tractors or whatever you buy on the spur of the moment. There is no reason you can't keep your cash in the bank and earn interest. People that are truly smart with their money don't waste it by keeping large amounts of cash at home. You are simply throwing your money away. As to your comment about what happened 80 years ago, it just shows how little you know about money.


I like hearing about other's money habits- and if I can hear about theirs...I think it only fair to discuss my own, especially when called on by accusation.

I will gladly forgo the few hundred dollars a year in interest for the security and convenience of being able to keep my own money. I'll take my chances of a fire or tornado, rather than on our teetering Keynesian economy, being ruled over by a Marxist president. 

Yeah...I'm the one who knows little about money..... I'd bet a lot of you guys are a paycheck or two away from bankruptcy.


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## CannondaleRushSynapse (Jun 1, 2012)

(not directed to anyone) stop worrying what other cyclist do, if they wish to pay for a bike that's 5x the cost of yours and they can afford it. good for them.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

CycoBob said:


> But hey, I've enjoyed this thread...and I've learned a lot on this forum...and have only lost respect for a few posters....so it's all good.


I don't think anyone you lost respect for is losing any sleep. 

After you mentioned your copious amounts of cash on hand, I felt like being snarky and saying that you were going to threaten someone with a gun and/or vicious dog after they asked where you lived. Alas, I had to go to dinner.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

CycoBob said:


> I like hearing about other's money habits- and if I can hear about theirs...I think it only fair to discuss my own, especially when called on by accusation.
> 
> I will gladly forgo the few hundred dollars a year in interest for the security and convenience of being able to keep my own money. I'll take my chances of a fire or tornado, rather than on our teetering Keynesian economy, being ruled over by a Marxist president.
> 
> Yeah...I'm the one who knows little about money..... I'd bet a lot of you guys are a paycheck or two away from bankruptcy.


This is laughable. Aren't there forums for David Koresh fans you could go to?


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## CycoBob (Aug 1, 2012)

spade2you said:


> I don't think anyone you lost respect for is losing any sleep.
> 
> After you mentioned your copious amounts of cash on hand, I felt like being snarky and saying that you were going to threaten someone with a gun and/or vicious dog after they asked where you lived. Alas, I had to go to dinner.


I don't know that anybody would be afraid of a 15 year-old dog.... (She's sleeping under the desk as I type this)


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## Zachariah (Jan 29, 2009)

...because we only live once. I want to leave this world simply knowing I rode the BEST I could afford.


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## CannondaleRushSynapse (Jun 1, 2012)

Same thing with other hobbies...
my is into RC planes and helicopters, a few are into guns...

and some people are into bikes. 

What ever floats your boat.


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