# Has there been a "running change" to the seatmast design and clamp of the new Madone?



## the sky above tar below (Mar 31, 2004)

*Has there been a "running change" to the seatmast design and clamp of the new Madone?*

Hi. I'm on the verge of buying a new Madone right now and would like to buy the most updated revised version.

On the second page of the Madone 6.9 thread on this forum, there are claims and closeups of a revised seatmast and clamp design on the new Madone. The clamp is changed from silver to black and there are other revisions as well, to prevent slipping.

Other posters claim there are no changes. What is the real story? Can anyone provide some definitive information?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

the sky above said:


> Hi. I'm on the verge of buying a new Madone right now and would like to buy the most updated revised version.
> 
> On the second page of the Madone 6.9 thread on this forum, there are claims and closeups of a revised seatmast and clamp design on the new Madone. The clamp is changed from silver to black and there are other revisions as well, to prevent slipping.
> 
> Other posters claim there are no changes. What is the real story? Can anyone provide some definitive information?


There have been two running changes to the new Madone since introduction. One was a relocaton of the rear brake cable exit from the left side of the top tube to the top. The second change was to the seat mast. Some posters have said that it was done because of slippage problems (may be true) but there have also been reports of riders complaining that their leg hits the clamp - similar to the complaints about the brake cable. If you notice, it's more than a cosmetic change.


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## the sky above tar below (Mar 31, 2004)

Okay thanks. When I talk to my dealer tomorrow, and take both the 5.2 and the 5.5 performance for a test ride, how can I know if these bikes have the updated seatpost and clamp? 

The revised cable will be easy to discern, but can you give me some details to look for to notice if the bikes on my dealer's floor have the revised seatpost and clamp?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

the sky above said:


> Okay thanks. When I talk to my dealer tomorrow, and take both the 5.2 and the 5.5 performance for a test ride, how can I know if these bikes have the updated seatpost and clamp?
> 
> The revised cable will be easy to discern, but can you give me some details to look for to notice if the bikes on my dealer's floor have the revised seatpost and clamp?


You're welcome. 
The revised seatmast/clamp will be just as easy to discern, because it's matt black as opposed to silver. Without exception, the updates are matt black. They're great bikes, so good luck on your test rides. And BTW, I think you're smart for educating yourself beforehand. Sometimes the consumer knows more than the LBS.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

The oval (7 mm wide x 8.5 mm high) so-called Ti316 rails of the Selle Italia Flite saddles will not fit the Madone seat rail clamps. According to Trek's Scott Daubert, " . . . the oversize seat rail clamps will be in store in December." May not matter to you, of course.


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## the sky above tar below (Mar 31, 2004)

No, this does matter to me: I always switch the stock seat to a Selle Italia Flite saddle. Is the New Madone coming with new, seat clamps? Is this part of the revised seatmast/clamp that is the subject of this thread?


Can you explain a little more?


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

I can only guess, and my guess is that the "oversize seat rail clamps" in Daubert's reply is a separate exchange component. I've heard riders talk about this issue, but Daubert's quote is at the end of the *John H* comment at the link below. May want to ask your LBS about that—they should have a tech bulletin on this.

http://trekroad.typepad.com/trekroad/2007/07/in-reading-the-.html


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

the sky above said:


> No, this does matter to me: I always switch the stock seat to a Selle Italia Flite saddle. Is the New Madone coming with new, seat clamps? Is this part of the revised seatmast/clamp that is the subject of this thread?
> 
> 
> Can you explain a little more?


The coming change that WIM mentions is seperate from the change already made to the seatmast/ clamp. There is also a conversion kit for the BB coming that will accept cranksets that aren't supported now. If you plan on making any changes to the bike, I suggest you use the link I posted earlier and contact Trek with questions.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

Sky -
Got the definitive clamp answer today. Spoke to Mark at Trek in Wisconsin. The black clamp is 1cm narrower than the silver clamp. In essence it doesnt protrude off the sides of 
the mast as much. I have the silver and I know it never rubs the insides of my thighs when im riding, even if I'm riding knees in while in the saddle climbing. Black or silver - they both perform the same, just make sure to Torque it to the max as recommended by the Factory to avoid slippage. Hope that helps.
PS - did you test or buy your new Madone today???


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## the sky above tar below (Mar 31, 2004)

Thanks for the info, 08madone5.2, but am I right in understanding it's more than just the clamp that has been changed? Info at this forum states that the mast itself is now matte black, suggesting that more has changed other than the clamp.

I didn't test today, it's pouring rain now.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

The Trek guy told me that the interior dimensions of the clamp have not changed. I don't believe that the seat mast has changed - mine is black carbon, only my clamp is silver and trust me when I tell you, it works! I think you are putting way too much into this. The bike is amazing, whichever clamp you have. I like mine so much I'm not even going to ask Trek to swap it for a black one. Why mess with something that is fine.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

08Madone5.2 said:


> Why mess with something that is fine.


Because they changed it for a reason.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

Yea - so the clamp wouldnt rub the inner thighs of overweight people who might buy this bike. The mast is unchanged.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

Just spoke to Trek - 
The new black clamp is slightly different - they shaved roughly 1 cm off the outer dimension. The cap is slightly changed as well, they just tightened up the dimensions slightly. The new black clamp only tightens around the cap itself, unlike the silver clamp which tightens around the mast AND the cap. Older version works fine, but they did offer to send me a new cap with the newer black clamp. Thats from the horse's mouth, so that should put this question to rest.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

08Madone5.2 said:


> Yea - so the clamp wouldnt rub the inner thighs of overweight people who might buy this bike. The mast is unchanged.


You are stating things you don't know to be true. In an earlier post, you said "I don't believe that the seat mast has changed". In this post, you're more definitive. Who told you they changed the clamp to pacify 'overweight people'? The Trek guy??!! Then it MUST be true. 

I personally think the new Madone is a great bike, but I don't let that discount the fact that Trek rushed it to market too quickly. I think two running changes substantiates this. Me? I'd wait a year or two before jumping in. If you think differently, it's you $$.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

PJ -
Notice I qualified my statement with the word "believe" - means I'm not 100% sure. I have the bike already, I'm being facetious when I talk about the clamp rubbing someone's inner thighs. I mean really, whose legs rub the seat post when they are riding???? I can tell you from experience - it is a great bike from a great company who will stand behind their product. I made a call to them directly, got the answer and was offered a new cap, no question asked. So you save your money, wait 2 yrs and by the time you own one, I will have put 10,000 trouble free miles on mine.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

PJ352 said:


> You are stating things you don't know to be true. In an earlier post, you said "I don't believe that the seat mast has changed". In this post, you're more definitive.


It might be helpful to define terms. 08 said he didn't believe the seat *mast* has changed. I take "mast" to refer only to the integral part of the frame that holds the cap, not to the entire mast-cap-clamp arrangement. Seen in that context, 08's statement is correct.

It'll all be sorted out—tempest in a tea cup, IMO.


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## the sky above tar below (Mar 31, 2004)

08Madone5.2 said:


> Just spoke to Trek -
> The new black clamp is slightly different - they shaved roughly 1 cm off the outer dimension. The cap is slightly changed as well, they just tightened up the dimensions slightly. The new black clamp only tightens around the cap itself, unlike the silver clamp which tightens around the post AND the cap. Older version works fine, but they did offer to send me a new cap with the newer black clamp. Thats from the horse's mouth, so that should put this question to rest.


08Madone5.2:
Thanks for speaking to Trek for us, you have provided the definitive information. I guess I'm just a little paranoid, on the verge of buying but want to get the latest improvements and updates.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

double post, sorry.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

Sky -
Its normal to want the latest greatest. I love my new ride, even with the silver clamp and original cap. When I discussed with Trek, they offered to update my clamp and cap without me even asking. I'm torn - my current set up is fine and I'd hate to change it and not be happy. I'm going to take them up on at least sending it to my dealer, and then I will decide from there. In any event, I'm sure you are going to love it as I do mine. By the way, thanks for covering my back WIM, appreciated!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

wim said:


> It might be helpful to define terms. 08 said he didn't believe the seat *mast* has changed. I take "mast" to refer only to the integral part of the frame that holds the cap, not to the entire mast-cap-clamp arrangement. Seen in that context, 08's statement is correct.
> 
> It'll all be sorted out—tempest in a tea cup, IMO.


_Originally Posted by 08Madone5.2
Yea - so the clamp wouldnt rub the inner thighs of overweight people who might buy this bike. The mast is unchanged._

I don't know how you could read through all 08Madone's statements and make your statement. He also made the one above. You'll have to explain in what context that holds true as well.
I made a point to him and stand behind it. He said things he didn't know.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

08Madone5.2 said:


> PJ -
> Notice I qualified my statement with the word "believe" - means I'm not 100% sure. I have the bike already, I'm being facetious when I talk about the clamp rubbing someone's inner thighs. I mean really, whose legs rub the seat post when they are riding???? I can tell you from experience - it is a great bike from a great company who will stand behind their product. I made a call to them directly, got the answer and was offered a new cap, no question asked. So you save your money, wait 2 yrs and by the time you own one, I will have put 10,000 trouble free miles on mine.


I know that you qualified your statement with "I believe", but you made other statement in this thread off the cuff.. that you couldn't know. I said so and stand behind it, as I told WIM.

That aside, I am not being pissy with you about your bike. I think it's a great bike and hope you have many thousands of fun miles riding it. But I do believe that the product was rushed to market. As far your statement "I mean really, whose legs rub the seat post when they are riding????" It wasn't the post riders were complaining about, it was the clamp. Then, Trek made the change, making it narrower. Seeing as the change wasn't cosmetic, if you don't believe riders complained, please share why the part(s) were changed.

What concerns me are not the brake cable change or the seat cap/ mast/ clamp change - all those we can see. What concerns me are the issues that aren't readily seen, maybe internal. Thus, my decision to wait before leaping. It's my logic and it doesn't have to be anyone elses. Like I said, I wish you the best with your new Madone.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

*Clarification.*



> *PJ352* _I don't know how you could read through all 08Madone's statements and make your statement. He also made the one above. You'll have to explain in what context that holds true as well.
> I made a point to him and stand behind it. He said things he didn't know._


Well, let me explain:

1. 08 wrote in post #11: _"I don't believe that the seat mast has changed"_

2. You used that statement when you wrote in post #15: _"In an earlier post, you said "I don't believe that the seat mast has changed". In this post, you're more definitive. Who told you they changed the clamp to pacify 'overweight people'?"_

My post #17 simply pointed out that the term "mast" needed to be defined. I thought that 08's definition of "mast" was "extended seat tube only", which, in fact, Trek didn't modify. Your post, on the other hand, used the term "mast" and then moved quickly to the clamp, so it seemed to me that your definition of "mast" is the more inclusive "mast-clamp-cap."

I never intended to comment on all of 08's statements, so your sentence starting with "I don't know how you could read trough all of 08Madone's . . ." is absolutely correct and your point is well taken.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

wim said:


> Well, let me explain:
> 
> 1. 08 wrote in post #11: _"I don't believe that the seat mast has changed"_
> 
> ...


I made a statement based on 08's general statements made throughout this post. By your own admission, you didn't. " _I never intended to comment on all of 08's statements, so your sentence starting with "I don't know how you could read trough all of 08Madone's . . ." is absolutely correct and your point is well taken_. If you expect to maintain credibility, base your defense on all the facts, not selected items.

IMO, the moral of the story is this. I'm here to both learn and also help where I can. I've read numerous statements by numerous posters that were offered as fact, but were actually opinions. No one learns (like the OP) or assists in that environment, unless the goal is to learn what not to believe. So you keep blindly defending and I'll keep calling a spade, a spade.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

Pj -
With all due respect, I did in fact SPEAK directly to Trek. Lets be honest, when referring to this new Trek, it is like learning a new language - post, mast, cap, etc... The mast is integrated into the frame. The cap is comprised of the cap which slides over the mast, and the rails which secure the seat. The clamp whether its silver or black, secures the cap to the mast. When I made my comment regarding a rider's leg rubbing, I did mean to say rubbing the clamp. According to TREK, the outer dimensions of the CLAMP were modified to be 1cm narrower (now the black clamp). The new clamp now secures the cap only as opposed to the silver clamp which secured on both the MAST and the CAP. As a result of the newer black clamp securing only the cap, Trek modified the cap somewhat to accomodate that. We are all in this together, but my so called "opinions" were in fact based on info provided to me directly by TREK. The biggest problem here as far as I can tell amounts to semantics as I alluded to earlier - mast, post, cap, clamp etc... Its a great bike as is, Trek is sending me a new clamp and cap and I will decide when it gets here whether or not I want to go ahead and make any change. It works fine as it is.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

PJ -
By the way, it was you who assumed it must have been TREK who said it was redesigned to accomodate overweight people:

Who told you they changed the clamp to pacify 'overweight people'? The Trek guy??!! Then it MUST be true. 

you were being facetious in your reply to my silly comment (which I assure you was never said or inferred by anyone at Trek)


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

PJ352 said:


> IIf you expect to maintain credibility, base your defense on all the facts, not selected items.


Let me try to explain this in shorter sentences: I chose to comment on a single selected item. The item I chose to comment on was the definition of a word. There, I'm done.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

Wim 
i stand by all my posts and appreciate that you looked out for me. Have a happy and healthy New Year!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I never doubted that you spoke with Trek, and I believed all of what you conveyed to us about your conversations. My remark to you about making statements you didn't know to be true, came before those posts. I said what I did simply because I didn't want you misleading the OP. If he decides based on fact to buy/ not buy a Madone, so be it. But he shouldn't be swayed.

I also knew everything you just outlined about the mast, cap and clamp. I've read about it in various places and have seen pics.

If we could move past this (it would be healthy to do so) I would offer that IMO you should take Trek up on the offer to install the upgraded cap/ clamp whether or not you're experiencing problems. 

I'm in total agreement that it's a great bike and despite my reservations am still considering it. My current ride is 17 years old and fading fast. If I don't make some decision soon, come spring I'll have NO bike.

Regarding your later post, yes I reacted to your posts by sarcastically 'asking' if the Trek guy mentioned overweight riders hitting their leg on the clamp. Just for the record, I'm 138 lbs and have hit brake cables that ran very close to the seatpost, so it can happen.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

deleted..


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

OK PJ -
I agree as 2 avid cyclists (otherwise we wouldnt be on this post so frequently) that we should get past this. Trek has done a wonderful job, the bike is beautiful and makes you want to get out and ride. I rode 50 on Xmas day when it was in the 30s here on Long Island. Any bike that can motivate you and reward you like that is worth considering when looking to buy a new bike. I also considered a Scott, Pinarello and Cervelo. My last bike was a Trek 2300 (03) which was a great bike and I felt very confident in Treks products not to mention that I like that they are made here in the US. I know everything is made elsewhere these days so I'm sure that the quality of any major is fine, but I have confidence in a company that manufactures their carbon (OCLV anyway) right here.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

08Madone5.2 said:


> OK PJ -
> I agree as 2 avid cyclists (otherwise we wouldnt be on this post so frequently) that we should get past this. Trek has done a wonderful job, the bike is beautiful and makes you want to get out and ride. I rode 50 on Xmas day when it was in the 30s here on Long Island. Any bike that can motivate you and reward you like that is worth considering when looking to buy a new bike. I also considered a Scott, Pinarello and Cervelo. My last bike was a Trek 2300 (03) which was a great bike and I felt very confident in Treks products not to mention that I like that they are made here in the US. I know everything is made elsewhere these days so I'm sure that the quality of any major is fine, but I have confidence in a company that manufactures their carbon (OCLV anyway) right here.


I always thought of myself as an avid cyclist until I read posts where people were riding 6,000 miles yearly and saying they were recreational cyclists. I do about 3,500 and have for the past 17 years. 

Long Island, huh? I'm not that far.. Upstate NY, just south of Saratoga. Small world. I'm jealous that you got to ride yesterday. Too cold up here. 

Interesting selection of bikes. I didn't test ride the Scott (don't think the quality is there) or the Pinarello (can't get by that twisted fork) but I did test an R3. They can keep it. I thought it handled ok, but the refinement/ quality are lacking. 

I never had a Trek, but believe that the quality is there and they do stand behind their stuff. You done good!:thumbsup:


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

Nice riding up where you are. Ive been to Saratoga over the years - the horses, staying there on my way to Quebec. 
I ride all year round, unless it is icy or raining before I set out. I'm looking to do a shorter 20 or 25 tomorrow it its not raining or wet. I just dress in layers and the temp isnt much of a problem. Winter riding is invigorating and it beats sitting around the house! I just try to get out and ride Even when i go out for a "leisurely" ride, I find myself getting a good workout. The best part is I'm in mid season shape even now. I do a few centuries over the spring and summer months. Its all good, just got to get out and do it.


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## gambo2166 (Oct 20, 2004)

The 1st pic is the old one the 2nd is the new.


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## the sky above tar below (Mar 31, 2004)

Thanks gambo2166. The different clamp is easy to see; the old post is a metallic finish w/white graphics and the new post is a matte finish w/ gray graphics, am I correct?

Also, did you have to special order the new clamp and post, or are they shipping with the frames now?


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## gambo2166 (Oct 20, 2004)

Your shop can order them and thy have been coming on the bikes for about a month now.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Hey there, sky. Have you been sufficiently assured? Is it time to make the big move??


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## the sky above tar below (Mar 31, 2004)

I called my bike shop. One of their new Madones actually has the old brake cable coming out of the side. All the others has the old clamp and post.

I'll be damned if I don't love the paint scheme of the performance 5.5, despite the consensus that it is not worth the extra money. To be honest, I am torn right now between a new bike and a new boutique Stratocaster.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Wow, I'm surprised that a bike shop has a Madone with the old brake cable routing. Only 1,000 were produced and that was very early on. The old cap/ clamp is an easy fix. 

I don't disagree with you about the 5.5 performance. I like the paint scheme, it has full Dura Ace and drops about .75 lbs. Whether it's 'worth it' or not is up to the person holding the credit card.


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## the sky above tar below (Mar 31, 2004)

'm just wondering, like you, if next year's Madone frame will come with slight refinements. The information about the 2009 models is not that far off, maybe 6 months. Also, it will be interesting what next year's colors will be.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

My concerns go beyond missing out on refinements. We never got into my experiences in depth, but I had ordered a 5.2 pro, it arrived and just before I test rode it I noticed binding and looseness in the headset. The LBS dissembled the fork, checked the headset/ bearings, etc. and could not find the problem. After a few days and back and forth phone conversations with Treks tech support, the problem was remedied. It was due to the lower carbon race not being seated properly. Long story short, I didn't take the bike. I felt that (and I've mentioned this before) Trek rushed the bike into production and is not taking the time they should in assembly and QC. Now the bikes are so backordered that I've heard they're running 24/ 7 pushing the bikes out. All things considered, I'm not sure it's a bad idea to let the dust settle for a year or so with these bikes, then maybe consider them. When the backorders have been filled and Trek has had some time to get the bugs out and better train their staff in assembly/ QC.

If you decide to go for it there's a good chance you'll be fine. Just take your time looking it over and test riding it before the LBS gets your $$.


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## the sky above tar below (Mar 31, 2004)

I'm not sure if I'd know how to check for binding and looseness in the headset. Reading your post makes me want to know how. What's a good way to check for that? I'd like to know my very expensive new Trek has no issues before I hand over my credit card.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

It's not hard to check for either binding or looseness.

To check for binding, Stand beside the bike. Lift the front tire off the ground and with the other hand move the handlebar (thus, the fork) from left to right (fairly slowly). The movement should feel smooth and the effort steady. If it feels stiff in any position that indicates binding.

To check for looseness, stand beside the bike, both wheels on the ground. Put the front brake on fairly hard and with your other hand (on the saddle) push and pull the bike forward and back - not quickly or too firmly, but enough that you're stressing the front end. You shouldn't be able to see the rear wheel more than 1/2 inch or so and feel no looseness (and hear no noises) in the headtube/ headset area.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

Sky -
Was away for the weekend and didnt have a chance to view the picturres that were posted. I think the color difference is due to the lighting in the pictures. The 5.2 is all grey with white graphics. The replacement cap would have to match the grey mast which is integrated into the frame. As far as waiting a year or 2 for Trek to sort things out or make refinements, I know Trek will update my bike with new pieces if the need arises (as they are doing for me with a new cap and clamp).


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## the sky above tar below (Mar 31, 2004)

I think the new seatpost, the part that goes into the frame, is a new, matte black color. The old one had a metallic, pearl paintjob, I believe.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

Sky -
Im sure you know this, but the "mast" is part of the frame. Whatever color they want to paint the frame is the color the mast would be. If it's matte black instead of the glossy grey, that would just be aesthetic. The entire frame is made of carbon, as is the seat cap that slides over the mast. The finish is only paint with a clearcoat so whatever color it is is irrelevant.


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## the sky above tar below (Mar 31, 2004)

I believe the cap is now a different color, the matte finish, indicating more than an aesthetic difference, if I'm not mistaken.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

You can be right, but it doesnt make sense. Unless they changed the composition of the cap, then its still carbon fiber. If its matte now instead of glossy, then it stands to reason that its only a change to the finish as opposed to the composition of the cap itself.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

as per Scott Daubert at TREK in response to my post on the Trek website:

ANDREW
There seems to be some confusion regarding the silver seat clamp vs. the black seat clamp. Is it just an aesthetic difference or is the clamp actually a new design? Can you please clarify? If it is in fact a new design, why was it done and will Trek swap my silver clamp for an updated black clamp?
December 26, 2007 at 07:23 AM

Scott Daubert, Trek Road Bike Brand Manager
Andrew's question about the seat clamp caught my eye. The change in color is aesthetic. Trek dealers will not trade a polished silver clamp for the now black anodized clamp. But if you want a mast with a black clamp, you can buy a complete mast at your local Trek dealer.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Hi, '08. Who said what in your last post. It's confusing.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

The first paragraph was posted by me on the Trek website regarding the color of the clamp (not the seat mast or seat cap). The response is by Scott 
Duabert who is the Trek Road Bike Brand Manager


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## the sky above tar below (Mar 31, 2004)

Hi 08Madone5.2:
I'm not arguing with you, but Scott's response to your question seems to contradict what Trek already told you they would do for you:

" I'm know Trek will update my bike with new pieces if the need arises (as they are doing for me with a new cap and clamp)."


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

I know that, I thought the same thing you thought, but they are in fact replacing my seat cap and clamp. SSSHHHHHH!! Dont tell anyone!


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## the sky above tar below (Mar 31, 2004)

08, I know I might seem contentious, and I don't mean to, but if there was only an aesthetic difference, as Scott said, why would Trek so readily offer you a free replacement?

I'm just trying to get down to the truth here, and I know you are caught in the middle and trying to find out just as I am. However, there seems to be an apparent contradiction happening here.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I'm familiar with him. I've written to him myself.
Their terminology is confusing. In his response, he calls the assembly a mast and clamp, not a cap and clamp. Anyway, there official line is if you want the upgrade, you buy it. Hmm....


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Sky, if you read '08's post again you'll see that Scott didn't answer the question.

08 asked: Is it just an aesthetic difference or is the clamp actually a new design? Can you please clarify? 

Scott said: The change in color is aesthetic.

We know that the clamp is 1 cm narrower, so that's not aesthetic. And 08 didn't ask about just the color. He asked about a new design (which it is). That, Scott never answered.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

Not contentious at all - theres a lot of confusion here. As I understand it from Trek:

1) The clamp was in fact changed. The outer dimensions were made narrower to help prevent riders rubbing the clamp when they ride
2) The old silver clamp clamped both the cap and mast
3) The new black clamp only clamps the cap which is evident in the photo that was posted (the black on the mast under the clamp is electrical tape which was probably put on to monitor whether or not the cap slips)

It seems unlikely the new cap would be manufactured out of anything other than carbon.
In the pictures, its clear the lighting is different which would make it look like the cap colors are different in the 2 pictures. It also doesnt help that in the second picture, there is all kinds of muck on the seat cap which makes it hard to see that the finish is still gloss due to the clearcoat over the paint. If the cap in the second picture was cleaned off, it would be evident that the color is the same.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

PJ - You're Correct! He never acknowledged that the clamp design was changed even though customer service at Trek confirmed to me that it was.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I know. I didn't catch it till I reread your post. I know you love your bike and I'm glad, but these guys (and it's not just Trek) are tough to pin down. That's why I'm skeptical of much that LBS tell me. Let the buyer beware is very true nowadays.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

I do love my 5.2. It rides unbelievably, even with the silver clamp and old seat cap. I have had no issues whatsover with the headset bearings or the crank bearings. If I ever do have any problems, I would like to believe that Trek will stand behind their product and correct them.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

From everything I've read and heard, Trek is among the best for warranty service. One LBS near me said he stopped carrying all the other brands because Trek was the only one that didn't give him grief about customers claims.

By the way, I didn't have any problems with cranks on the bike I test rode, just the headset.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

You know Trek developed a new technology - they molded the frame so bearings can be dropped right in without any additional machining. It would make sense that if the bearing is not seated properly, you might have some play when everything is assembled and tightened up. I was not implying you were having crank bearing problems, just raising that the possibility is there if those bearings arent seated properly as well.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Yes, I'm familiar with the technology. I've read up on it. It both impresses me and scares me at the same time. I don't always want to be the first to have something new because I feel like part of an experiment. I used to be more like you, but I was younger then.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

What I've read about the technology says that the bearings will wear out long before the carbon that the bearings sit in will. Honestly, thats not something I'm overly concerned with. The thing that frightens me most with carbon are the rare cases of catastrophic failure of a frame or forks. I get some comfort from the fact that Trek has such extensive experience with carbon - both design and layup.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I've read the same about the tests Trek has run, and I believe them when they say the bearings will wear out first.

Good point about carbon, though. It was actually covered in a thread in Bikes, Forks here recently. In this instance it was a discussion of carbon versus Titanium, but same general idea. 

I had a dog run (literally) into my front fork back in August. It was a metal fork so it bent, but I've often wondered how carbon may have reacted. It was a fairly hard impact, so I suspect it would have cracked instead, but who knows. I try not to play the 'what if' game.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

A gentleman near recently passed away after suffering a catastrophic failure on a 6 month old Orbea. I saw picutres of the frame at a LBS - it cracked through the toptube and downtube. A horrible and unfortunate incident for sure. Any frame material can break. I just have to believe that with all the bikes out there in the world, and all the millions of miles put on them on a yearly basis, that these occurrences are rare. Remember too that there are carbon fiber MTBs which probably experience more stress than a road bike and even then, failures are not common. Just ride, be careful and enjoy!


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

wim said:


> Well, let me explain:
> 
> 1. 08 wrote in post #11: _"I don't believe that the seat mast has changed"_
> 
> ...


making it thinner on the outside doesn't change the overall design. it had no effect on the bike, other than for fat people whose thighs would rub.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

bas said:


> _making it thinner on the outside doesn't change the overall design._


Well, if that's all Trek did (made it thinner) you'd be right, but they changed the overall design.



bas said:


> _it had no effect on the bike..._


'it' what? You don't even know what Trek did, so how could you know the result. 



bas said:


> _...other than for fat people whose thighs would rub._


And your basis for making this inane claim is?? Please direct me to your documentation. Or is it just your belief that a disproportionate number of 'fat people' purchase Madones, thus the need for making 'it' thinner?


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

08Madone5.2 said:


> A gentleman near recently passed away after suffering a catastrophic failure on a 6 month old Orbea. I saw picutres of the frame at a LBS - it cracked through the toptube and downtube. A horrible and unfortunate incident for sure. Any frame material can break. I just have to believe that with all the bikes out there in the world, and all the millions of miles put on them on a yearly basis, that these occurrences are rare. Remember too that there are carbon fiber MTBs which probably experience more stress than a road bike and even then, failures are not common. Just ride, be careful and enjoy!


had he clamped the top tube in a frame stand?


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

I have no idea and won't be the one to comment or pass judgement. You made read up on it at:

http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-294488.html

It's a tragic event regardless of what transpired. We have to realize how fortunate we are on a daily basis.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

The Definitive Answer From TREK

Madone Watch
January 14, 2008
Seat cap continuous improvement
I gave out some misleading information associated with the continuous improvements made to the 2008 Madone's seat cap design. I want to set the record straight.

Visually, the difference is that the newer cap has a black anodized clamp and the carbon portion of the cap is now 10mm longer. The added length allows for a broader range of height adjustment. The added length applies to both the standard and long caps and to all three seat offset options.

The new black clamp is also positioned at 90 degrees to the cap (not angled like the original) so the clamp is more effective. This 90 degree repositioning decreased the torque required to keep the cap in place. The clamp bolts are now torqued to 5-7 N*m.

The section width of the revised clamp is 15mm narrower on the new clamp so some rider's legs have even more room.

These revisions went into place in September of 2007 and were on sale to consumers in October of 2007. 

The internal dimensions of the older and newer cap are the same. They are interchangeable. Trek dealers are not exchanging old for new but new caps can be purchased individually.

Hope this info answers any questions you have.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Thanks for posting this, '08. IMO, Trek did the right thing by clarifying.
Did you ever opt to get the newer version of the assembly?


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

I actually spoke with my dealer today and my new cap and clamp came in today. Honestly I'm pleased with my original setup and thought maybe I shouldn't even make the switch. My dealer told me I probably should swap it with the new set up, so I will in the next few days. Contrary to what Trek put out publicly, they are swapping mine at no cost to myself and I'm even allowed to keep my old cap and clamp although what I will do with it is beyond me, lol.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I think you should give the new one a try. It's free, and you can always swap it out for the original.

I'm trying to get some info on the 4.7's, but that seems harder to come by than the higher end models!


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

I am going to switch to the new one. I doubt that I will notice much of a difference, but I might as well have the most up to date. Will keep the thread posted on what develops.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

PJ352 said:


> Thanks for posting this, '08. IMO, Trek did the right thing by clarifying.
> Did you ever opt to get the newer version of the assembly?


That was everything I had summed up from previous posts.

Same inner dim, different outer dimension for people with fat thighs so they don't rub.

Now surely everyone will want to argue these points again.:mad2:


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

Bas -
My first reaction to your latest post was to be pissed, but looking at it again, I have to laugh. The outer dimension of the clamp has in fact been made narrower. Im 5' 9" 170 and my thighs don't even come close to my original silver clamp. I think the real reason for the change is so that the new clamp, the black one, only clamps the seat mast as opposed to the original silver clamp which clamps both the mast and the cap. I will be picking up my new clamp and cap tomorrow and I will let you know what I think. I have seen one new black clamp/new cap combo at a local bike shop and honestly can say I prefer my silver/old cap combination for looks alone. I'll let you know if the actual ride itself is any different once I get some miles under my belt with the new combo. I also gather from the Trek post regarding this issue that the new combo reduces slipping more as it only needs 5-7 NM as opposed to the original 6-8 NM that the silver clamp needed. I hope this all makes sense.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

08Madone5.2 said:


> Bas -
> My first reaction to your latest post was to be pissed, but looking at it again, I have to laugh. The outer dimension of the clamp has in fact been made narrower. Im 5' 9" 170 and my thighs don't even come close to my original silver clamp.


Hey, I'm glad someone had a laugh!!!  

Most people aren't 5'9" and 170... mainstream Fred America is big!!!


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

I swear to God that if you go by these posts the average American is 5'6" and 135 lbs! I guess every avid rider is in TDF shape!! LOL! Bottom line is that every time I ride my new 5.2, even when its 30 degrees out, I love it. I figure if I'm motivated to do 25-30 per ride during the winter here on Long Island, then I'll be doubly motivated to do 50-60+ when the weather is nice. I don't aspire to race, so isn't the motivation to get out and ride and enjoy the scenery and company of other cyclists what its all about?


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

Once again for those who missed it - 
As per TREK:
Madone Watch
January 14, 2008
Seat cap continuous improvement
I gave out some misleading information associated with the continuous improvements made to the 2008 Madone's seat cap design. I want to set the record straight.

Visually, the difference is that the newer cap has a black anodized clamp and the carbon portion of the cap is now 10mm longer. The added length allows for a broader range of height adjustment. The added length applies to both the standard and long caps and to all three seat offset options.

The new black clamp is also positioned at 90 degrees to the cap (not angled like the original) so the clamp is more effective. This 90 degree repositioning decreased the torque required to keep the cap in place. The clamp bolts are now torqued to 5-7 N*m.

The section width of the revised clamp is 15mm narrower on the new clamp so some rider's legs have even more room.

These revisions went into place in September of 2007 and were on sale to consumers in October of 2007. 

The internal dimensions of the older and newer cap are the same. They are interchangeable. Trek dealers are not exchanging old for new but new caps can be purchased individually.

Hope this info answers any questions you have.

Posted by Scott Daubert at 01:15 PM in Madone Watch | Permalink | Comments (0)


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

bas said:


> That was everything I had summed up from previous posts.
> 
> Same inner dim, different outer dimension for people with fat thighs so they don't rub.
> 
> Now surely everyone will want to argue these points again.:mad2:


Actually, this is what you said in a previous post:

_making it thinner on the outside doesn't change the overall design. it had no effect on the bike, other than for fat people whose thighs would rub._

It was inaccurate then and is inaccurate now. That isn't all that Trek did in the redesign.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

08Madone5.2 said:


> I swear to God that if you go by these posts the average American is 5'6" and 135 lbs! I guess every avid rider is in TDF shape!! LOL! Bottom line is that every time I ride my new 5.2, even when its 30 degrees out, I love it. I figure if I'm motivated to do 25-30 per ride during the winter here on Long Island, then I'll be doubly motivated to do 50-60+ when the weather is nice. I don't aspire to race, so isn't the motivation to get out and ride and enjoy the scenery and company of other cyclists whats its all about?


While I would agree that there seems to be a disproportionate number of 5'6" 135 lb. riders posting, there also are a number of guys weighing in at 200+ asking if there are weight limitations on carbon frames. BTW, I'm 5' 6" 138 lbs., so luckily I'm not included in your stereotyping! And no, I'm not ready to join the TDF..

As far as the leg hitting clamp issue, Trek (Damon) actually made a statement saying that some cyclists were complaining that the clamp interfered with their pedal stroke. I think you and other posters are coming to an incorrect conclusion that this is in some way related to weight. Not necessarily so. There are a number of cyclists with unique ways of pedaling that are pretty slim. For example, I have a steel frame bike with a brake cable that lies next to a narrow Dura Ace seat post. Every now and again my leg grazes it. If your legs don't hit anything during the pedal stroke that's great, but to say it can't happen unless someone is fat/ overweight is just plain wrong.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

PJ -
I'm not stereotyping or passing judgement on anyone or their bodies. I'm just making an observation that there seems to be a disproportionate amt of people posting who claim to be 5'6" and 135 lbs. I don't claim that people are hitting the clamp because they are overweight. I own a new 5.2 and will tell you from personal experience that the mast is very narrow and not circular in design as most masts are. I can understand hitting your leg on a protruding cable or something, as a matter of fact, the new Madones originally had the rear brake cable exiting on the side of the mast and they were forced to redesign it to avoid that very problem. I do think however, that it would be difficult to rub the clamp on this post during the course of normal riding. Trek redesigned the clamp and cap and obviously they know more than any of us do.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Hey ''08, I just spent twenty minutes writing a 3 paragraph rebuttal to you last post. Then it dawned on me.. :idea: he's a plant!! Trek planted the guy on this forum to sell their bikes!! Yeah, that's it!! :yesnod:

I swear, I've been looking for a new bike on and off for two years now, but if I spend 10 minutes with you, you'd have me handing over my credit card to the nearest Trek dealer. :yikes:

Ok I admit that for entertainment value I may have slightly exaggerated, and this is a thinly veiled attempt to walk away from our seatmast/ cap/ clamp discussion, but I _am_ glad you love your bike and are enjoying your winter rides.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

PJ -
I'm laughing over here. I spend so much time on this post and thinking about my bike that I should be getting paid by Trek! I'm not on their payroll, just a sicko who's hooked on his new ride and riding in general. Send me a PM with your cell and I'll call you, we can talk for real!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Well, I'm glad you took my post the way it was intended. I don't think you're on Trek's payroll nor do I think you're a 'sicko'. Maybe a tad enamored with your bike, but so what, you're entitled.

I'm not set up for PM (never got into that, dunno why), but thanks for the offer to chat. Maybe if you're up my way this summer we can kill an hour riding the back roads (I just _know_ your bike will be with you!)


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

What part of the country are you in? What bikes are you currently considering? What do you ride now? I think the bottom line is that most any bike in the price range we are in will be good, a lot of it has to do with personal preference. Aston, Ferrari, Porsche, Vette - they're all good, more car than any one of us needs - its just what strikes your fancy. Whatever bike you get, you know you're gonna love it otherwise you wouldn't buy it. Lets face it, all of us do a ton of homework, research, test rides, asking questions of owners, etc... before we buy so I would think that 99% of the people who buy something new are gonna like it.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I'm in upstate NY, south of Saratoga. I think we talked about it awhile back.

You're opening up a real can of worms asking about bikes I'm considering. I'm currently 'riding' a 1990 Serotta Colorado. I put 'riding' in quotes because it is rusting out and the headset is shot, among other things. It's safer to ride on the trainer, so that's what I'm doing. 

Anyway, my list of possible bikes expands and contracts depending on my mood, or so it seems. Not in preference order they are:

Trek Madone 5.2 pro
Trek Madone 4.7
Jamis Xenith (comp or race)
Ridley Excalibur
Felt F4
Specialized Tarmac (comp or expert)
Gunnar roadie

I know what you're saying about the price range and quality of bikes, but for me it isn't about money. It's more trying to find the bike that's right for me, and a part of me knows I can spend $8,000 and not be happy, or $2,500 and be happy. Some people would chuckle at that, but I really believe it. Bikes have a certain character and we have to find the one right for us. And sometimes despite the research, questioning, etc. it ain't easy. Compounding the problem is my frame requirement. In general I take a 50 - 52cm frame. Almost no bike shops stock them, so test rides/ seat of the pants comparisions are tough. Anyway, I could go on, but will spare you. As I said, it's a can of worms, but I do appreciate your asking. And your input is always welcome. (I know, I should get the 5.2, right?)

edit: I don't know how that wink got up there. I wanted it at the end..


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## prschatt (Aug 19, 2007)

I had a problem with my original cap slipping, LBS called TREK and had the new cap sent w/in a week. Biggest difference I noticed outside of the obvious is the length of the slit that the clamp "Clamps", much smaller on the revision, not extending past the clamp.. I really don't like the seat adjustment mechanism on the new. Even with lots of grease it's still tough to position correctly without lots of loosening and tightening. No slipping however. also requires 1 nm less torque then old. I liked the older metal looking clamp better fwiw.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I'm confused. I thought you weren't supposed to use grease on carbon posts.. well, in this case masts.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

You're not. There are carbon friction compounds that is similar to grease but it is actually for stopping carbon posts from slipping in carbon frames.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

Loctite makes a compound for carbon on carbon. Works very well. My original silver clamp has not slipped a hair since I used the Loctite and torqued it to 8NM. My new seat cap/clamp has arrived at my LBS, courtesy of Trek, but have yet to pick it up. I have seen the new black clamp in person and do agree with Porsche that aesthetically, the original silver clamp is better looking. I have had no problems with my original cap/mast combo but it seems to be the general consensus that I should switch to the new combo that Trek sent me. Will let the thread know how the new combo is once i swap it out this weekend. Hope im not making a mistake!!!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

The loctite you mentioned and the carbon compound davidka mentioned, I've heard of. But when prschatt used the word grease, _that_ confused me.

Don't sweat the change in cap assembly. If you use it for awhile and don't like it, just switch back.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

Thats what I figured I would do. I don't have to send my original cap/clamp back so if I dont like the new combo I can switch it back.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

I just picked up my new cap and clamp. Aside from the outer dimensions of the new clamp and the fact that it is black vs silver, there are some subtle differences apparent. The silver clamp clamped all the way around the cap so essentially it was clamping carbon on carbon. The new black clamp clamps carbon to carbon on the front of the mast but the carbon is cut out on the rear of the cap so the clamp clamps directly to the mast itself. Its much easier to understand when you actually see the design before the cap is slid over the mast. Unfortunately I didn't take pics and now its on and torqued so I'm not going to take it off to take pics of. I will however take a pic of the new cap/clamp on my bike and post when I do. I know its a mouthful, but its easy to understand when you see it in real life as opposed to my description.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I followed your description perfectly, and if I can anybody can, because I'm a visual kind of learner.

Have you ridden the bike with the new set-up yet?


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## prschatt (Aug 19, 2007)

Hmm, Sorry if I posted twice. I didn't see my first post and just assumed I hit preview post instead of submit reply, and posted again. Still don't see any of my posts, maybe they've been deleted for pornographic content??. Or maybe Ad-block on firefox?
Anyway, back to your regular scheduled programming


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

The Cayman makes me drool. The 911 ain't bad either! :yesnod:
Oh yeah, back to bikes....


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## prschatt (Aug 19, 2007)

PJ352 said:


> The Cayman makes me drool. The 911 ain't bad either! :yesnod:
> Oh yeah, back to bikes....


Porsche and cycling obsessions, it' been suggested that I see a shrink (by my wife)


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Don't listen. You're fine. Trust me. :devil:


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

Pj -
Im glad you were able to follow my description. I rode it a block or so at the LBS, seems the same to me but it is nice looking. I was able to keep the old cap with the clamp, it is a nice piece to put on my desk as a memento. Its interesting to note that the color of the new cap is slightly darker than my original cap. Its snowing tonite but I'm hoping we wont get much and I will get a ride in on Saturday. If so, I will post about the ride.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Well, you weren't experiencing any problems with the old setup, so this upgrade will probably go unnoticed. I still think you were smart to go with it.

Yes, let us know how your ride goes this weekend. Snow expected up my way as well...


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

Was just watching the news and no accumulation expected here on the Island. If thats the case, I anticipate doing a 50 on Sat and that should give me a good idea of how the new combo is, but I'm not expecting to notice any difference at all.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

PJ -
Looks like you and I are the sole survivors here. Haven't heard anything from the OP. I guess there aren't that many people interested in the updated cap/clamp combo.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I'm jealous - wanna be out riding again..


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I know. I was wondering where Sky went. I hope we didn't scare him off.

Ya know, the funny part is I don't even own a Trek, yet I loiter here trying to help people out. Along the way I seem to have accumulated this knowledge - for what purpose, I don't know!


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

Because you are destined to own a TREK!, lol. Have a good one, I will keep you in the loop as I get some miles in with the new combo.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

08Madone5.2 said:


> Because you are destined to own a TREK!, lol. Have a good one, I will keep you in the loop as I get some miles in with the new combo.


You may very well be right. The Madone isn't off my list yet.

I thought you'd be interested:

http://trekroad.typepad.com/trekroad/2008/01/64cm-madone.html


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

Did my first ride today with the cap/clamp combo. As I suspected, no noticeable difference at all. The look of the new black clamp is nice though, much more streamlined than the original silver clamp. Also, no slippage at all. So thats that.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

I tried posting pics of the new cap/clamp but it doesnt let me upload. Sorry!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

08Madone5.2 said:


> I tried posting pics of the new cap/clamp but it doesnt let me upload. Sorry!


These were posted previously in the Madone 6.9 pro thread:
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=1333042#post1333042


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## rboseley (Sep 28, 2007)

How is this for definitive? I purchased a 5.2 four months ago. Silver clamp. My brother who lives next door purchased a 5.2 last week. While chatting with the dealer, something was said about a new clamp. My bro MUST have whatever is the latest, so his 5.2 has the black clamp. We examined both bikes about as closely as can be examined. Actually, the size change is almost invisible to the naked eye, but as stated it is a tad smaller. I have never had an issue with the silver clamp, nor the location of the brake cable outlet. If your legs hit the clamp – get a black one. If not, just ride. :thumbsup:


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Chances are if you go for the non standard offset (as discussed in the other thread), you'll end up with the latest and greatest *black* clamp and will have caught up with your bro!!


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## rboseley (Sep 28, 2007)

This reminds me of the debate as to how to tell the sex of a Gulf shrimp below the age of 3 months. Anyway, I went to my LBS today, got the new clamp, mast, etc. Since my legs never touched the old clamp, they seem to pass the new one without a care. As expected MY PROBLEM of the upper clamp not holding the saddle from sinking in the rear if pushed much past center on the rails - is still there. Solution: Don't move the saddle back so far. End of stroy. Old=Silver
New=Black. Here about the new 09 Madones?


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

Um, ok, the shrimp analogy is a little worrisome, you must have a lot of time on your hands if thats what you need to concern yourself with. LOL.
As for the old vs new clamp - DITTO. My legs never hit the old clamp, my old cap never slipped either. My legs don't hit my new clamp, and my new cap doesn't slip either.
As for the rails, has never been an issue.
Its cold here in NY, got my 5.2 in Dec, already have over 300 miles and thats not riding as much as I normally would during the warmer months. Can't wait to do some centuries!!


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## Damon64 (Sep 24, 2005)

I haven't been keeping up with the small changes Trek has been doing with the current Madone, but I noticed on a newer one that the front derailleur was the clamp-on style. Were they going to change this to braze-on down the road? Maybe they did or are planning to? I just think the braze-on is just a cleaner look...my opinion.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Damon64 said:


> I haven't been keeping up with the small changes Trek has been doing with the current Madone, but I noticed on a newer one that the front derailleur was the clamp-on style. Were they going to change this to braze-on down the road? Maybe they did or are planning to? I just think the braze-on is just a cleaner look...my opinion.


I haven't read anything from Trek stating that they were making the change to a braze on front derailleur, but that doesn't mean they aren't. IMO, the clamp is preferable because it spreads the force around the entire tube, rather than just the rivet points in the case of a braze on. There's also much less chance of it loosening over time. I wouldn't even want to think about how to repair a loose braze on on a CF frame. Lastly, because of the needed increase in fiber around the rivets, any advantage in weight over the clamp style is lost.


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## andyaa (Mar 5, 2008)

*Recently picked up my 08 Madone 5.5 performance*

A couple of weeks ago I picked up my 08 Madone 5.5 performance. The seat had to go up near the upper limit so the dealer swapped out the normal seat cap for the longer seat cap. That was nice. Trouble is, the original seat cap had the newer clamp the new seat cap has the old style clamp. I wonder, now, if I should try to go back to the dealer or Trek directly and see if I can get the newer style cap and clamp. Seems bad to have had the new one then to have been "downgraded" to the old.

And I haven't even been able to ride the new bike yet! It is still too cold outside, (7 degrees), and the roads are still snow covered.  Well, maybe by the end of the month...

Andy


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

andyaa said:


> A couple of weeks ago I picked up my 08 Madone 5.5 performance. The seat had to go up near the upper limit so the dealer swapped out the normal seat cap for the longer seat cap. That was nice. Trouble is, the original seat cap had the newer clamp the new seat cap has the old style clamp. I wonder, now, if I should try to go back to the dealer or Trek directly and see if I can get the newer style cap and clamp. Seems bad to have had the new one then to have been "downgraded" to the old.
> 
> And I haven't even been able to ride the new bike yet! It is still too cold outside, (7 degrees), and the roads are still snow covered.  Well, maybe by the end of the month...
> 
> Andy


Andy, I would. While the problems with the old cap clamp mech. seem to affect some and not all, it was enough of a problem that Trek redesigned the clamp.


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## tg3895 (Mar 14, 2006)

I have the original style seat clamp which works just fine. Apply some carbon assembly compound (I use Tacx which works great on carbon to carbon and/or carbon to metal applications) and you will not have any problems with slippage. Personally I think the original style seat clamp looks way better than the new one. The new looks like a plain simple clamp while the original has graceful curve to it that compliments the bike. That's solely my opinion on the looks of the clamps. Performance wise, both clamps are fine. Just remember to torque to the lower numbers when using any carbon assembly compound. I went to 6.5nm max although seatmast states 6-8nm.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

My 5.2 came with the original silver clamp which Trek replaced free of charge with a new cap with black clamp. I can unequivocally say that they perform equally. I think the most important factor is to make sure the bolts torqued to the recommended levels. I will say that the old cap and clamp do make a nice addition to my desk!!! If I can't be out riding, at least I can look at Trek's beautiful workmanship. Tom G - send me a private so we can arrange to do some riding!


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

Damon64 said:


> I haven't been keeping up with the small changes Trek has been doing with the current Madone, but I noticed on a newer one that the front derailleur was the clamp-on style. Were they going to change this to braze-on down the road? Maybe they did or are planning to? I just think the braze-on is just a cleaner look...my opinion.


PJ pretty much summed it up. But to put it rest, no you will not see a braze-on FD on the current style Madones. This is direct from Trek. The reasoning is what PJ said and the lug work apparently weakened the seat tube enough to require too much buildup & weight to applied in that area. Accordingly the engineers when with a clamp. Trek is certainly not alone here.

As I too like the clean look of a brazed on FD, I asked. 

I believe the website also gives lip service to this if you dig deep enough. 

Zac


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## andyaa (Mar 5, 2008)

I contacted my dealer about getting the older cap swapped for the newer one, since I had the new one originally. They were willing to swap, so now I have the cap with the black clamp. I do like the black clamp better.


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