# Made in Italy



## MERAKMAN (Mar 6, 2008)

Hi 

Does anyone know if there is any truth in the rumour that some ITALIAN frame makers do not actually make their frames in ITALY anymore and are made somewhere in the Far East, like Taiwan?

If this is true, does anyone know if our deloved DE ROSA's are still made in ITALY??
(p.s I know the Avant is made in China by Mizuno, but the rest I'm not sure)


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2008)

So far this thread has not de-generated as much as I thought it would.

There have been lots of threads here over the years about " where is brand X made" - if you use the search function you will find them.

Sadly, they pretty much all turn into religious flame fests with people throwing insults in every direction - hence my initial reaction, and my great surprise that this one has not yet got there - possibly because it is in a little travelled sub-forum.

The fact is that the bike makers by and large don't want you to know where their frames come from, and the fact that is from Italy doesn't even mean it was made in the plant you suspect.


It has become a game of " who cares" - if you like the bike, and you like the way it rides - then it is good.

Where it game from is not the magic.


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## caterham (Nov 7, 2005)

MERAKMAN said:


> Hi
> 
> ... is any truth in the rumour that some ITALIAN frame makers do not actually make their frames in ITALY anymore...?


hint- 
if it's an italian brand and the btm bkt is threaded italian, it's an italian produced frame.
if it's an italian brand and the btm bkt is threaded BSA, there is a high possibilty of non-italian origin but that feature alone is not conclusive proof of outsourced manufacture . 
afaik,currently the only outsourced derosa is the 'entry' cabon avant


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## flateric (Jul 1, 2003)

All DeRosa's are made or at least assembled in Italy. From my understanding the Avant tubes are made by Mizuno but that the bike is assembled in the factory in Italy. For the rest of the line it's all made in Italy.


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## MERAKMAN (Mar 6, 2008)

Yeah ok guys...Could you tell me your sources please?


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## jeffreyg (Nov 23, 2005)

If you prefer empirical evidence over conjecture, you've come to the wrong forum.


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## merckxman (Jan 23, 2002)

*If I wanted a De Rosa...*

..I would get a Ti model as they are built by Doriano De Rosa.


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## MERAKMAN (Mar 6, 2008)

Jeeze Some of u guys are patronising (u know who u are)..I can only be pleased I don't know you! Get a life!  

Thanks to those that helped.....


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## PinarelloFan (Jan 19, 2008)

100% hand made in italia


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## MERAKMAN (Mar 6, 2008)

Yeah baby yeah! That's what I'm talking about! Now thats Italian breeding, I saw these bikes at a cycle show and was taken aback by the quality of the welding and perfect finish. I would still dearly love to know for sure whether De Rosa's are made in Italy, but apart from going to work there I guess there's no way of telling for sure. I know alot of Bianchi's are made in the Far East probably in the Giant factory....


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## caterham (Nov 7, 2005)

MERAKMAN said:


> I would still dearly love to know for sure whether De Rosa's are made in Italy,....


if you really wanted to know, you could do a search yourself. 


here's a couple i found for starters-

idol review :
https://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=5277

derosa articles:

https://www.cyclingnews.com/sponsors/italia/2007/de_rosa_02.php
https://www.cyclingnews.com/sponsors/italia/2003/derosa/?id=default2
https://www.bicirace.com/product/2006/DeRosaHydroforming.html
https://www.bicirace.com/product/2006/DeRosaVisit.html
https://www.cyclingnews.com/sponsors/italia/2006/derosa.php
https://www.cyclingtime.com/pr/derosa/02making/index.html


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## MERAKMAN (Mar 6, 2008)

caterham said:


> if you really wanted to know, you could do a search yourself.
> 
> 
> Yeah but I'm lazy!


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## zmudshark (Jan 28, 2007)

The last link was particularly informative. Thanks, k


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2008)

zmudshark said:


> The last link was particularly informative. Thanks, k


You funny man! ( it had nice pictures though!)


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## caterham (Nov 7, 2005)

zmudshark said:


> The last link was particularly informative. Thanks, k


 z-man-
sorry, but i can't be held responsible for your own inadequacies. 

best,
k
ps-too bad my 'puter's own inadequacies prevented me from seeing the derosa factory tour video on that site.


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## zmudshark (Jan 28, 2007)

I can't get the movie to play either. toomany has a mac, maybe he'll get it to play and give us a report.


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## caterham (Nov 7, 2005)

toomanybikes said:


> ( it had nice pictures though!)











note the debilitating effects of prolonged florescent light exposure on taiwanese labourers in the derosa "sweatshop"


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## dead flag blues (Aug 26, 2004)

Pinarello still has a factory outside of Treviso.


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## nodaknat (Feb 19, 2007)

*Italian quality?*

Are you asking because you're concerned with the level of quality offered by a bike made in Italy? Did you look at those pics and read the article in Pez? Not exactly inspiring IMHO. Personally, I think the combo of Italian design (aesthetics, geometry,experience) with Eastern assembly (consistency, precision, technology) is the best of both worlds!


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## MERAKMAN (Mar 6, 2008)

I'm asking because I'm interested........I agree with you, if the qualities good in the Far East and the geometry's Italian and styling then fine (I know the Taiwanese are the dogs' with carbon) ........but when it comes to steel or alloy then I like an Italian built frame...


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## nodaknat (Feb 19, 2007)

*Steel*

True that!


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

dead flag blues said:


> Pinarello still has a factory outside of Treviso.


Yes...Taiwan is outside Treviso :idea:


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## MERAKMAN (Mar 6, 2008)

smokva said:


> Yes...Taiwan is outside Treviso :idea:



That's a beauty.! True though...its just round the corner from Treviso, an up the road to the right..it will take you...oooh about twenty years to walk it....


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## MERAKMAN (Mar 6, 2008)

zmudshark said:


> I can't get the movie to play either. toomany has a mac, maybe he'll get it to play and give us a report.



Dudes...I think that the video has been taken off the site now. It worked about 2 years ago and I've tried it on a few versions and I can't get it to work..It shows a King X LIGHT being built from pre made Mizuno tubes in the De Rosa factory in their carbon section.


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## circusubet (Apr 3, 2008)

*Life Altering Light*



caterham said:


> note the debilitating effects of prolonged florescent light exposure on taiwanese labourers in the derosa "sweatshop"


Caterham, you owe me a new keyboard. I was drinking my Kona? coffee and spewed all over it when I read your reply....How did you ever get your tongue outa your cheek?

Thanks, John


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## Firefly55 (Sep 25, 2005)

I was looking to buy a bike frame that was genuinely made in Italy. As has previously been stated, as gorgeous as De Rosa bikes are, the tubing for their upper range carbon fibre frames is in fact made in Japan by Mizuno. The frames are assembled and finished in their Italian workshops by hand.

If you are looking for a _genuine_ all Italian carbon fibre frame, buy an upper range *Colnago*. Their carbon fibre tubing is manufactured by ATR Composites, an Italian company that amongst other things produces carbon fibre for Ferrari, Ducati, Aprilia etc. 

This sold it for me and I chose a Colnago and have subsequently equipped it with Italian componentry (Campagnolo).


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## caterham (Nov 7, 2005)

Firefly55 said:


> I was looking to buy a bike frame that was genuinely made in Italy. ...as gorgeous as De Rosa bikes are, the tubing for their upper range carbon fibre frames is in fact made in Japan... assembled and finished in their Italian workshops by hand.
> 
> If you are looking for a _genuine_ all Italian carbon fibre frame, buy an upper range *Colnago*. Their... tubing is manufactured by... an Italian company ...
> This sold it for me and I chose a Colnago and... equipped it with Italian componentry


 i'm more interested that the bike be designed & built by the same folks that put their name on it with the hope that their knowledge & experience, their art & vison, their skills & craftsmanship, and not least, their own pride & integrity will be most closely tied to the end product.

imo, the concept that every iota of raw materials must also originate from within an arbitrary geo-political boundary is just plain bizarre. 
i like derosa's because of how they ride & handle and the quality of the craftsmanship. my previous experiences with their products has always been exemplary.

to the contrary, my past and current experiences with colnagos has been generally okay but for my tastes, the ride is a bit too sedate,& the workmanship thruout the line too variable,ranging from excellent to indifferent. sometimes i can't help but feel that colnago's bold paintjobs serve to distract from inspecting too closely.


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

And in 2008 Colnago doesn't have a single color scheme that I would like. When I think better they rarely do


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## MERAKMAN (Mar 6, 2008)

caterham said:


> i'm more interested that the bike be designed & built by the same folks that put their name on it with the hope that their knowledge & experience, their art & vison, their skills & craftsmanship, and not least, their own pride & integrity will be most closely tied to the end product.
> 
> imo, the concept that every iota of raw materials must also originate from within an arbitrary geo-political boundary is just plain bizarre.
> i like derosa's because of how they ride & handle and the quality of the craftsmanship. my previous experiences with their products has always been exemplary.
> ...



Hi I agree with what you say, its the design and testing that goes into a frame and that home grown feeling you get from some Italian bikes that I like. If it uses a good quality fork made in China, then I would have thought that they would have designed that in from the start,thus making a perfectly balanced bike. Also they use tubing from Mizuno because De Rosa believe its the best carbon material around,I think fair play! As long as they put the frame together in the factory by their own people then I'm cool.


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## Rubber Lizard (May 10, 2007)

Italy makes almost no bikes anymore. Fortunately for you De-Rosa lovers, De-Rosa is still Italy. As are a few colnagos. 
Pinarello has been making bikes in Taiwan for a decade now, Aluminum ones too. Bianchi long moved production to Taiwan, now its mostly in China. 
Consider this, less than 4,000 Italian built frames were imported into the United states last year according to a bicycling trade magazine. Thats not a lot of Italian made bikes. But there sure seems to a lot of Italian named bikes out there.


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## merckxman (Jan 23, 2002)

*These were made in Italy*

I can assure you that these were made in Italy:
http://italiancyclingjournal.blogspot.com/2008/04/chesini-track-and-fixed-gear-frames.html


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## Firefly55 (Sep 25, 2005)

Why not go for a custom built De Rosa Titanio. That way you are guaranteed to get a true Italian thoroughbred built by a master crafsman. The skill in welding a titanium frame far outweighs the skill required to bond a few carbon fibre tubes. Or perhaps a steel Pegoretti.


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