# Traffic in Griffith Park is a real problem



## N2GLOCK (Jun 25, 2004)

The other day I got off of work early at 4:45pm and since it was still light out I decided to take a Griffith Park ride. I got onto Victory @ Riverside and I was shocked when I saw the line of cars waiting to get into the park. As I made a left onto Zoo Dr. the line continued clear passed the Autry Museum, I'm talikin about solid, gridlocked, 405 style trafiic in both directions. What's the deal here? I thought that Griffith Park was a place to go to get away from this kinda crap. I would have to say that riding in Griffith Park these days is not only not fun but flat out dangerous!!!

I have been going there for many years, and I have been able to tolerate the dumbasses who drive thru there and ignore just about every traffic law on the books in Ca. but this traffic thing is just flat out REDICULOUS. I think that it's time to propse to the city to convert Griffith Park to a "pay as you visit" park. I think that this would keep all unwanted traffic on the 5 and at the same time create revenue to fix the roads inside the park.


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## The Walrus (Apr 2, 2000)

*I hope you mean "pay as you visit" for cars only!*

Far too many motorists use Zoo Dr. as an alternative to the clogged freeways; I know, as I regularly did the same thing during the years I worked down off of Fletcher Dr. I would never consider riding in the park on a weekday, at least during commuting hours. That's what the L.A. River Bike Path is for, as dull and unlovely as it is.

(Some of the most dangerous traffic would be the golf carts crossing the road just north of the Merry-Go-Round area.)


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## jksu (Mar 8, 2004)

*agreed!*

there's even a bit of traffic in the morning....

we ride occasionally, meet at 6:30am near the pony rides near the los feliz entrance. by the time we finish our climb towards the observatory and back down, there's already some cars zooming along.

i hate the idea of speed bumps, etc since that ruins the cycling, but yeah, maybe a car entrance fee and gates is what's needed...

john



N2GLOCK said:


> The other day I got off of work early at 4:45pm and since it was still light out I decided to take a Griffith Park ride. I got onto Victory @ Riverside and I was shocked when I saw the line of cars waiting to get into the park. As I made a left onto Zoo Dr. the line continued clear passed the Autry Museum, I'm talikin about solid, gridlocked, 405 style trafiic in both directions. What's the deal here? I thought that Griffith Park was a place to go to get away from this kinda crap. I would have to say that riding in Griffith Park these days is not only not fun but flat out dangerous!!!
> 
> I have been going there for many years, and I have been able to tolerate the dumbasses who drive thru there and ignore just about every traffic law on the books in Ca. but this traffic thing is just flat out REDICULOUS. I think that it's time to propse to the city to convert Griffith Park to a "pay as you visit" park. I think that this would keep all unwanted traffic on the 5 and at the same time create revenue to fix the roads inside the park.


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## N2GLOCK (Jun 25, 2004)

Speed bumps don't do anything IMHO especially when it comes to SUV's. I am seriously contemplating approaching the city counsel with my idea. I think that if enough cyclists, joggers, hikers, etc. felt the same way and came together and signed some sort of petition or something, the city would at the very least be aware of the problem.

Griffith Park is a great place which offers a wide range of recreational activities to a diverse amount of people. It really bothers me to see it turn into some kind of fwy. alternative for rush hour commuters. I think that a "pay as you visit" or better yet "pay to drive thru" would keep out alot of commuters and at the same time create a revenue that could be used for the maint. and repairs that are badly needed in the park.


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## The Walrus (Apr 2, 2000)

*"Tolls" have been proposed in the past*

I remember thinking what a horrible idea it was when I heard it the first time back in my commuting-through-the-park days--back in the 70s--when the shoe was on the other foot. It's not as if Parks & Recreation is unaware of the situation. The idea's been shot down before after people raise the issue of a fee's impact on lower-income commuters, as well as the cost of implementing and administering something like this. Realistically, the only way there will be a reduction in traffic through there is if we see another OPEC oil embargo and people can't buy gas.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Los Angeles has tried to impose entrance fees to Griffith Park in the past. It's never come to pass, partly because the Griffith Family, when they donated the land for the park about a hundred years ago, stipulated that if a fee were ever charged for admittance the land would revert back to them, the Griffiths.


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## meat tooth paste (Oct 6, 2004)

*Griffith trivia*

Some not so promoted facts about Colonel Griffith...

In 1903, something snapped in Col. Griffith. There is speculation that he suffered from alcoholic delusions brought on by drinking two quarts of whiskey a day. He had hinted that his wife was in cahoots with the Pope to poison him. And at the end of a month long vacation in Santa Monica, the Colonel shot his wife. She jerked her head, jumped out a window, landed on a canvas awning, and survived. She became the “society wife who wouldn't die.”

Col. Griffith was convicted of attempted murder brought on by alcoholic insanity and was sentenced to 2 years in San Quentin. He served his time and then returned to Los Angeles. He was a hated and wealthy man. In he 1913 he set up a trust fund and donated $150,000 to build the Griffith Observatory and the Greek Theater.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

N2GLOCK said:


> I think that it's time to propse to the city to convert Griffith Park to a "pay as you visit" park. I think that this would keep all unwanted traffic on the 5 and at the same time create revenue to fix the roads inside the park.


So you want to charge people to keep them out of the park so you can have a better ride? That sounds incredibly selfish to me. The park is for the use of everyone, even those who don't appreciate it. I'd suggest you go ride somewhere else. You're riding the most boring section of the park anyway. You might as well be on the river bike path!


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## N2GLOCK (Jun 25, 2004)

mohair_chair said:


> So you want to charge people to keep them out of the park so you can have a better ride? That sounds incredibly selfish to me. The park is for the use of everyone, even those who don't appreciate it. I'd suggest you go ride somewhere else. You're riding the most boring section of the park anyway. You might as well be on the river bike path!


Incredibly selfish??? I think that maybe you should go back and read my original post in detail. Not only do I mention that riding thru Griffith Park is not only not fun but flat out dangerous. Now, the reason that I am wanting to propose an entry fee idea to the city is to make the park fun again during all operating hours, not just the hours between the morning and evening rush hours. Also, Griffith Park requires alot of maint. and repair and alot of times some of it doesn't get done because of the lack of funds. Charging an entrance fee would help with this problem. As you may already know, parking for the attractions inside of the park is free and the attractions themselves do not create much revenue for the city. Most of that money goes towards the maint. and repairs of those attractions.

You say that the park is for the use for everyone, even those who don't appreciate it. Well I totally agree, and many parks in this country that charge an entrance fee are still available for use by anyone who wishes to use them. I appreciate Griffith Park for what it is. It is indeed just that...a park, and that is way I choose to respect it and it's visitors and stay away unless I plan to actually visit. You say that I am riding the most boring section of the park anyway. Well that boring section just happens to be part of a major artery within the park. I'd like to know if the hundreads of cyclists that use that "Boring Section" every week agree with you.

I don't see how wishing that a park was both fun and safe could be seen as "Incredibly Selfish" See ya at the park! While I'm on my bike and your driving thru.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

N2GLOCK said:


> I don't see how wishing that a park was both fun and safe could be seen as "Incredibly Selfish" See ya at the park! While I'm on my bike and your driving thru.


Last time I drove thru the park was about 20 years ago.

You say you want to make the park fun and safe again, basically by keeping people out. How else could your entrance fee idea be interpreted? You are saying, with little subtlety, I don't want people driving here, because they bother me during my ride. So let's charge them money to keep them out. How is that different from hikers saying they don't want people riding on "their" trails? How is that different from drivers saying cyclists shouldn't ride on "their" roads? It's an elitist attitude that we can't afford.

Go ride down by travel town and up the hill behind the zoo, then get beyond the barriers where cars can't go. That's what I do. I love riding up there.


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## Igor441 (Jul 13, 2004)

*Entrance fees were imposed about 30 years ago*



il sogno said:


> Los Angeles has tried to impose entrance fees to Griffith Park in the past. It's never come to pass, partly because the Griffith Family, when they donated the land for the park about a hundred years ago, stipulated that if a fee were ever charged for admittance the land would revert back to them, the Griffiths.


About 30 years ago entrance fees WERE imposed. The charge was one dollar, fee booths were erected near each entrance to the park. A season pass was available. Park attendance dropped drastically during that time. Griffith Park has always been a place where low income people can enjoy picnics and hikes at minimal cost.

I was one of those handing out fliers to the cars queued up at the toll booths. The fliers recommended a boycott of the park until the fees were recinded. Many cars turned around and left after seeing the flier. Once I was nearly grabbed by police who were called by the booth attendant. Eventually the fee was recinded, but not due to my efforts. It seems that the cost of collecting the dollar fee was more than a dollar. That coupled with the decreased use of the park resulted in the abandonment of the fee. The Griffith family chose not to spend the money for legal fees to uphold their original conditional grant to the city.

Approximately 1970, there was one Sunday when all *motor* vehicles were banned from the park. I rode into the park with the Department of Water and Power bike club and we were interviewed for the TV news. What did I say? I said that we wanted more car-free days in the park. We never got any.

Igor
.


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## meat tooth paste (Oct 6, 2004)

I think cars should have the right to drive through there on a regular basis. I don't like it, but it is public land that belongs to all Angelenos: hikers, cyclist and motorist.

However with the above said, I do like the idea of closing off the park say one sunday a month to cars. San Francisco's Golden Gate Park and NYC Central park all have some sorta of "no car" day. That I think is far.


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## Faliero (Feb 13, 2005)

If drivers are using Griffith as a shortcut, would it be better to ask Parks and Recreation to place barriers in the middle of the park to prevent people from going all the way through?

It seems like imposing a parking fee is unfair to all the people the really use the park for what it's original intent. There's no guarantee that it would deter commuters from cutting through.


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

*I'm with Mohair Chair*

The all-access nature of Griffith Park is invaluable. One of the true joys of a city is its park, and while it's no Central Park or Golden Gate Park, Griffith is pretty nice - especially on a bike, if you play it safe. Ride up and over Garbage Truck Hill (I think that's what it's called. It's the route Mohair mentions that links Travel town with the south side of the zoo (right by the carousel). At the top of the hill, take the blocked off road up and over the hill to the observatory and down into Los Feliz. great ride - and no cars over the top of the hill for many miles. What's to complain?
Good riding all!


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## bandoulu (Nov 1, 2004)

*dammn*

ont go there when the christmas lights are up if you think traffic is bad now.!
just push for the congestion charge for all l.a (like London)not just the park...


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## california (Feb 19, 2005)

*park vet*

"I was one of those handing out fliers to the cars queued up at the toll booths. The fliers recommended a boycott of the park until the fees were recinded. Many cars turned around and left after seeing the flier."

I'm impressed! Nice work. I love Griffith Park and this thread has some interesting trivia. I always wonder who all the riders are in the park. There are always people riding and it is super diverse, isn't that what parks are about? One minute I am passing a commuter and next cooked by a racer. nice.

-Watch out for dumptrucks coming down the recycling center road (dumptruck hill?) I almost got splattered yesterday. 

-Wolfgang Puck is opening a restaurant in the remodeled Observatory.

-There are a lot of great people at the Los Feliz Improvment Association meetings fighting for the good of the park. Traffic is the least of the problems. A larger problem being development. It is more likely for bikes to be banned than cars. Go to the meetings voice your concerns.


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## N2GLOCK (Jun 25, 2004)

Well I had no clue that so many would take such offense to my idea, nor did I ever think that I would end up being called "selfish" or even better yet an "elitist" but I guess that's the way the cookie crumbles. Anyways, I think that all of you would be happy to hear that I did talk to some folks within Parks and Rec. and city hall and who were not exactly swept away by my idea. (I expected that reaction) I guess the city would rather waste time coming up with stupid ideas such as rebuilding LAX, banning ammunition sales and giving Hybrid car owners the opputunity to park at meters for free. Oh well

So it looks like Griffith Park will remain a freeway alternative for many years to come.


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## Tumbleweed (Jun 6, 2005)

I'm a 3-4 day/week rider in Griffith Park and have to agree traffic is an irritant. I would support a proposal of 'no through-traffic' but not a toll.
Of course my real pet peeve is the blatant disregard for the law when on weekends (especially holidays) when cars park in red zones blocking the bike lanes...and the rangers/lapd just throw up their collective hands and say, 'have at it dipsh!ts'
at least it's june and at 5:30 am it's light enough to ride the roads w/out much care about traffic or the lurkers. the near solitude is awesome.


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## ispoke (Feb 28, 2005)

*where's law enforcement?*

Frankly, the real issue is law enforcement. As originally stated, motorists break many rules when driving through Griffith. It's treated like a speedway. That plus running stop signs, which seems to be all but legal throughout Los Angeles.

If the park had an enforcement presence, perhaps weekly or monthly during commuting hours, motorists would learn it's not such a time saver when they obey the rules. And that would also generate revenue that might be used to enhance park services. So instead of creating new rules, new divisions, new disagreements, they should simply enforce what is already in existence.

At Franklin Canyon, in the Santa Monicas, the MRCA occasionally sets up a "traffic dragnet" to catch motorists speeding short-cut through the park. They actually station an educational person, with leaflets about the park, at one traffic stop. Then around the corner they bust all the hotheads trying to make up time by speeding up after the "educational stop"...


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## steve_e_f (Sep 8, 2003)

That's strange, I ride Griffith part 2-3 times per week (from Los Feliz over and down Trash Truck, then around the park and back the way I came or out Forest Lawn).

Only once in the last six months have I seen anything I'd call a traffic problem. I like the park precisely because it has so little traffic. It may have to do with the time that I ride, though. I'm usually in the park around 6:30pm, which may be past the worst of the traffic. If the traffic is bothering you a lot and your schedule is flexible, I'd try a slightly later ride.

slightly OT: does anyone know of weekday group rides in/around the park that are open to newcomers? I ride early morning (6:30) and later in the evening.

-s


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## jksu (Mar 8, 2004)

*griffith rides..*

aids life cycle folks ride in griffith in the mornings...google their training rides web site.

latri has some brick workouts there some weeknights.

and lastly, there's always groups that meet on weekends around 7:30 or 8am to ride up latuna canyon.

john



steve_e_f said:


> That's strange, I ride Griffith part 2-3 times per week (from Los Feliz over and down Trash Truck, then around the park and back the way I came or out Forest Lawn).
> 
> Only once in the last six months have I seen anything I'd call a traffic problem. I like the park precisely because it has so little traffic. It may have to do with the time that I ride, though. I'm usually in the park around 6:30pm, which may be past the worst of the traffic. If the traffic is bothering you a lot and your schedule is flexible, I'd try a slightly later ride.
> 
> ...


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

jksu said:


> aids life cycle folks ride in griffith in the mornings...google their training rides web site.
> 
> latri has some brick workouts there some weeknights.
> 
> ...


Do you know were people meet for the La Tuna ride?


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## t-moore (Jan 1, 1970)

*LaTuna ride*

There are a couple of rides that start Sunday morning. 8:15 - 8:30 am. They head out of the parking lot just north of the zoo...


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

t-moore said:


> There are a couple of rides that start Sunday morning. 8:15 - 8:30 am. They head out of the parking lot just north of the zoo...


Thanks for the 411. P.S. to everyone... I've never found the traffic to be bad there ever.


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## jksu (Mar 8, 2004)

*latuna*

yeah, great ride... usually some merrill lynch guys at the 8am start time that i've gone one. some of them have come together from the rose bowl so have done some riding already. 

nice mellow pace up victory road but once you turn onto latuna the pace picks up, the peloton gets stretched and it pretty much shatters once you hit the first bump before the main climb up latuna.

everyone regroups at the top (210?). it's about a 30-40 mile ride if you loop right back to griffith, otherwise often times they go over to the rose bowl for a few loops before heading back.

john



t-moore said:


> There are a couple of rides that start Sunday morning. 8:15 - 8:30 am. They head out of the parking lot just north of the zoo...


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## N2GLOCK (Jun 25, 2004)

So you've never found the traffic to be bad there ever? So it's safe to assume that you consider the parking lot that forms on the bridge between Victory and Griffith Park to be normal or Okay? How do you feel about the line of vehicles sometimes 50-60 cars long that builds- up near the Autry? Do you like the little traffic jams that occur between Forest Lawn Dr. and Travel Town? Do you enjoy seeing people drive their vehicles thru the park and disobey the rules of the road? I suppose it's okay with you when somebody runs a stop or 2 or 3. I guess you don't have a problem when people drive thru the park and throw there lit cigarette butts out the window either. I ride thru the park every evening and I have learned to deal with all the above mentioned problems, however I think that what is being done with the park is a disgrace and is not fair to the all the people that actually visit it to enjoy it which is what was the original intent. It's a real shame that nobody else seems to think that this is a real problem! But I guess if it doesn't bother anyone else then I shouldn't let it bother me.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

*I guess I'm lucky...*

I've never encountered any problems of the scale you describe in or around GP but I'm not trying to claim you haven't. I've had more problems outside the park over by Fletcher by far.
Actually I generally avoid that ride/area because of the dirty glass strewn streets to and from GP. If you want to experience a real slice of hell on a bike you should try cycling in Chicago anywhere.

LA has it's specific traffic problems but it's not the only large city with these general problems by a long shot. LA as a whole has a nack for telegraphing a rep./image internally and to the rest of the world that tends to be overstated and inacurate. You should experience the Chicago driving and cycling situation. It's very bad on week days and a catastrophe on the weekends. I just went back there two weeks ago and man that was a reality check! I live in Highland Park now and I've found cycling routes that are exponentially better than anything in the chicago area.

I hope you're world and luck improve.


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