# Power Meters



## ohioathlete (May 2, 2015)

Back in May, I asked for others' insight to help me choose a wheelset that best suits my riding style and aspirations. The majority of responders suggested I purchase a PM as the best way to improve performance. That said, I have opted to post my inquiry under "wheels and tires" to seek the advice from those who cared enough and offered advice in the form of PMs. So, in general...

Placement: I would like to avoid hub-based/PowerTap hubs if possible. Crank and pedal options seem to attract my attention so as not to be limited to a single wheel. I've read the pro's and con's of each, and hope your testimonies will help me to decide what is right for me. 

Left Only: As I understand it, these simply take the power of your left leg and double it for total power. It may be important to note that I am right-dominant. Owners of these units - is there any reason to be concerned?

Features: Estimated vs Actual Right/Left Power, Battery Life and Replacement, Bluetooth - Are there any features you cannot live without? Are there any features you wish you had?

If you have made it this far and wish to provide a specific model which you feel best suits me, here are the specifics...

Me: 180 lbs and trimming, trying to become faster in shorter distance tris - sprint and olympic with a half peppered in from time to time.
Train: Trek Madone 5 series, Ultegra, 11 speed, BB90, 172.5 crank arm
Race: Specialized Venge, SRAM Red, 10 speed, OSBB, 172.5 crank arm (I know it is not a tri bike but it is my tri bike)

I have done my research and hope to gain more insight from readers with personal experiences, both good and bad, in the hopes that I may purchase the PM that best fits my needs. Thank you in advance!


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

Id go peddle .. Vector or the powertap p1 personally


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Placement: You have it backwards with the exception of pedals. Hub power meters are the most versatile as it is the easiest to swap wheels between bikes vs. any other parts. A powertap wheelset is all you need and you can use it on many bikes. The next easiest one is pedals. They're a bit harder and more time consuming to change than a wheel but not a whole lot. Of course anything in the crank or spider is much harder to change out than a wheel or pedal. Stages and/or similar left-only cranks are probably the next step beyond pedals.

Left Only: It's been shown repeatedly with data that it makes almost zero difference to anyone but a super data cruncher. If you are a super data cruncher you should just get the full Pioneer system and immerse yourself in it. If not then left only is just fine. I have a left only bike and other bikes combined and they read basically the same, they work just fine out on the road.

Features: Totally personal thing based on if you're a data guy or not. I don't care about all the fine detail. I want it to work as intended, I want it to be reliable and long lasting, I want it to be durable and I want to not have to worry about it. And I want it on every bike so the power data is always on my Garmin in front of me, this is a pacing tool. Outside of that, I don't personally care. So any well respected power meter works for me. Ant, Bluetooth... the fellas at Powertap seem to have a handle on it.





They have a few good vids on the topic:
https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerTapTV/videos

If you care about certain features, you'll seek them out. If not then any respected one will work well for you most likely. DC Rainmaker has full reviews on them all. He goes into the fine details of all of the features if you're into that thing.

Model: If you only want to buy one power meter, but want it to work on both bikes, you're limited. You have different cranks, so that rules out all spider, crank arm and spindle power meters. That basically leaves you with hub or pedal units unless you would want to try one of these new fangled ideas which I would avoid. It seems as though you want different wheels on your bikes, specifically stating you don't want a powertap (which are the gold standard alongside SRM by the way) so that leaves pedals or two power meters.

So as suggested above, the Powertap pedals or the Garmin Vector pedals seem to be your best single arrow quiver solution.


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## ohioathlete (May 2, 2015)

Thank you! This is precisely what I needed to hear (read). In a wheels/tires forum, I am surprised to find a hub-based PM is recommended given everyone's personal thoughts on rims, hubs, spokes, etc. Versatility and transferability are great. Reliability, longevity, durability, and hassle free are most important to me. I am not a data guy and want dummy-proof data to tell me what I am doing right and what I am doing wrong. 

So, is a power tap wheelset the gold standard in PMs? I am certainly willing to admit my initial thoughts are based on speculation vs facts, and am willing to invest in a tool that will best help me. 

Again, thank you for helping...


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

For a balanced and knowledgeable comparison of different options (presently a year old), and key points to consider when choosing, see Coach Alex Simons blog entry here. If you want to get into the details of specific models, functions, etc., check out the various reviews at dcrainmaker.


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## cobra_kai (Jul 22, 2014)

Wheels are the easiest to swap between bikes, but limit to a single wheel. I'm guessing OP probably has training and race wheels for tri, maybe a disc. 

Pedals as MMs said are second easiest to swap between bikes and also allow use of different wheels. I think the best option here is the powertap p1s based on ease of install. There were reports of odd power spikes (50 kW or so) that I don't know if have been resolved yet. If you travel a lot and want to rent a bike you can bring the pedals with you which is a nice perk. Pedals however tend to be the most expensive. I also have some concerns about durability, pedals and handlebars always seem to take the worst impact when I've crashed.

There are cranksets that would work in both bikes with appropriate bottom bracket choice, and allow use of multiple wheelsets, although swapping cranksets is definitely more work than pedals. I think the power2max rotor 3d or gossamer models would work in both bikes. Quarq might make some models too but I'm not sure. They are also more expensive. SRM probably does but they are way more expensive.


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## moose82 (Jun 4, 2012)

cobra_kai said:


> Wheels are the easiest to swap between bikes, but limit to a single wheel. I'm guessing OP probably has training and race wheels for tri, maybe a disc.
> 
> Pedals as MMs said are second easiest to swap between bikes and also allow use of different wheels. *I think the best option here is the powertap p1s based on ease of install.* There were reports of odd power spikes (50 kW or so) that I don't know if have been resolved yet. If you travel a lot and want to rent a bike you can bring the pedals with you which is a nice perk. Pedals however tend to be the most expensive. I also have some concerns about durability, pedals and handlebars always seem to take the worst impact when I've crashed.


The P1s would be my recommendation to the OP as well. I was between the P1s and Stages (Pioneer was in the mix as well). I ended up going with a Stages. Their price drop was really what got me. Even if the numbers aren't 100% accurate, they are consistent enough and that's what I need for my training. Since you have one Shimano and one Sram bike, pedals seem like the best option.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

The power data is critical for training AND for racing. Are you really going to race and train on the same PT wheel?

Pedals seem to be the easiest swap to have power on both rigs, but I am not sure the durability.

I have owned a couple of Stages and have nothing but good things to say about them. They are plenty accurate in my opinion.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

ohioathlete said:


> So, is a power tap wheelset the gold standard in PMs? I am certainly willing to admit my initial thoughts are based on speculation vs facts, and am willing to invest in a tool that will best help me.
> 
> Again, thank you for helping...



Powertab hubs are notoriously reliable units. Their G3 is a Novatec design with cheap and easily sourceable replacement parts. Their GS is a DT Swiss design which speaks for itself. I own a G3.

They're not very heavy, they will build into any wheel you want, they don't require constant calibration, their data output is accurate enough and reliable, the battery life is quite good and it's super easy to swap, but they lack all the fancy features. 

Below is what DC Rainmaker said about the G3 hub:


> Would I buy it: Absolutely, and in fact, it’s one of the units that I’ve bought myself as a workhorse in my power meter testing. Based on what I’ve seen, the PowerTap is the closest I get to ‘set it and forget it’ when it comes to power meters on the market today (talking specifically to calibration/offset variance and stability). However, if you’re one that changes wheel sets frequently in your training, I’d be more measured in deciding whether it’s worth not having power somewhere (I don’t think it is). Though, with their recent price cuts, it makes buying two PowerTap’s basically as cheap as buying a single crank-based unit.


They're affordable and easy to find. The company has been around a long time and their stuff is available in lots of places. There's many pre-built wheels using their hubs for very affordable prices. Performance sells training wheels for as low as $600 a set (with included joule computer) and also different versions of carbon wheels. Their older Reynolds ones get down pretty close to $1300 or so I think at times.

Powertab hubs are always a solid option if you ask me, they have a good track record and I personally enjoy using them.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

I own a Powertap wheel, and the Pioneer L/R system. 

If I had to recommend one system only, it would be a Stages left crank system. Why? Because I think it's easier to swap the left cranks from bike to bike than the rear wheel (_if_ you use both alloy and carbon wheels), due to having to swap brake pads and readjust brake caliper when you swap the rear wheel. Swapping a Shimano left crank is really easy. 

Also, the Pioneer power meter benefits by having the Pioneer head unit. With Stages, you can effectively use a Garmin head unit without sacrificing data or metrics.

If you're a Campy user, then the Powertap wheel is the way to go.


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## ohioathlete (May 2, 2015)

MMsRepBike said:


> Powertab hubs are notoriously reliable units. Their G3 is a Novatec design with cheap and easily sourceable replacement parts. Their GS is a DT Swiss design which speaks for itself. I own a G3.
> 
> They're not very heavy, they will build into any wheel you want, they don't require constant calibration, their data output is accurate enough and reliable, the battery life is quite good and it's super easy to swap, but they lack all the fancy features.
> 
> ...


As it turns out, Performance has the reynolds assaults listed for $1299.99 plus save 20% for a total of $1040. How good/great of a deal is this? Should I be concerned about purchasing a couple year old set of wheels? Should I be concerned about purchasing a couple year old G3 hub?

Link to reynolds...
PowerTap G3 Reynolds Assault Wheelset - Performance Exclusive

Link to similar shimano wheels...
CycleOps PowerTap GS AMP 35/50 Carbon Shimano Wheelset

Thanks to everyone for sharing and educating me thus far! Opinions on the above options will be greatly appreciated. *I called the local store and confirmed both are in stock*


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## cobra_kai (Jul 22, 2014)

It depends what your goals are. From your op it sounded like you wanted to be able to use multiple wheels in which case you should probably avoid a powertap hub. If you are ok always using the same wheels the hub is a great option.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

ohioathlete said:


> As it turns out, Performance has the reynolds assaults listed for $1299.99 plus save 20% for a total of $1040. How good/great of a deal is this? Should I be concerned about purchasing a couple year old set of wheels? Should I be concerned about purchasing a couple year old G3 hub?
> 
> Link to reynolds...
> PowerTap G3 Reynolds Assault Wheelset - Performance Exclusive
> ...


If you're using the wheels for racing, then they're a good deal. If you're using them for training or "all-around" wheels, then I'd not recommend carbon rims, but rather alloy rimmed wheels.

FWIW, the Powertap GS hub has DT Swiss internals if that makes a difference to you.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

The aerodynamics of the older Reynolds rims won't be up to par with the current stuff.

The hub however is fine. The G3 is solid, even being the older model. The Novatec internals are pretty solid but of course the GS hub with the DT Swiss internals is an upgrade. 

The Reynolds are a really great deal at that price. Almost tempted to buy them purely based on value but I already have powertap wheels, lol. The rear hub usually sells for around $600-700 or so, so doing the math...


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## Chader09 (Jun 10, 2014)

Not to thread jack too much, but I have been researching power meters lately as well.

I had looked at these Performance options briefly in the past but ignored them for some silly reason. After reevaluating my needs lately, these look like just what I need for affordable power.

Lucky timing on their wheel sale, I snagged the cheap option they have for $550 after the 20% wheel discount and 5% cash back from ActiveJunky.
CycleOps PowerTap G3 Alloy Shimano Wheelset with Joule 1.0 Computer

I use my old Roubaix for most training rides (inside and out). The weight is a minor issue since I can run just the rear wheel with my current light front wheel.

I'm happy to have a setup that will be consistent between trainer/roller duties and outside riding when I am not on my Emonda. Seems like an affordable setup and the computer is better than the Bontrager Node 2.1 I already have (even though it can handle primitive power info).

Thanks to the tip from MMs and useful discussion from everyone.


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## ohioathlete (May 2, 2015)

I now wonder about buying the $550 set, dismantling them, and rebuilding with better rims and spokes. As MMsRepBike noted, the rear hub alone with more than $550. I am leaning towards pedals, will now be reading up on stages left only, but remain a sucker for a good deal. 
Also, I spoke to powertap, who assured me the G3 hub in question will be as good as new with a quick and easy software update. 

Thanks to all!


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## Chader09 (Jun 10, 2014)

Keep in mind that the $550 set gets you the 32-hole hubs. I haven't looked to be sure, but you may find a limited selection of high-end rims with that hole drilling. It seems most are 24-hole.

I think that is one reason this setup is so affordable.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

The issue with tearing down those wheels is that they're 32/32.

There aren't a ton of 32 hole rims that are excellent. However one that comes to mind is the Panceti SL23 V2, I think that comes in 32. If you buy them though, ride the rims, you might be surprised what cheap and heavy rims/spokes can do.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

This is a pretty nice set of Powertap/HED wheels for $1250.


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## cobra_kai (Jul 22, 2014)

I've been riding the powertap alloy wheelset that I got from Performance for a similar price for nearly a year now and about 4500 miles. It's definitely not the lightest wheelset around at about 1800 grams but it's not outlandishly heavy and they are very sturdy. The rims are decently wide at 21 mm. It's honestly a great set of wheels for training and commuting which is what I've used them for. For under $600 I think it's still one of the best values in power meters even with all the price drops this year.


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## surfinguru (Jun 17, 2004)

ohioathlete said:


> As it turns out, Performance has the reynolds assaults listed for $1299.99 plus save 20% for a total of $1040. How good/great of a deal is this? Should I be concerned about purchasing a couple year old set of wheels? Should I be concerned about purchasing a couple year old G3 hub?
> 
> Link to reynolds...
> PowerTap G3 Reynolds Assault Wheelset - Performance Exclusive
> ...


Wow....not sure what to do with that Reynolds link provided. I've been after a power meter for a while and have been considering the Vectors, but it seems they're pretty hit or miss. P1's look like a good call, but after looking at my three year old Ultegra's, they're pretty beat which gives me pause.

Now, with that said and out of the way, I've been running a pair of Farsports 50mm carbons/Novatec hubs since the fall of '12. So far I've had one broken spoke on the rear wheel and had a very slight run out on the front wheel. Both easily fixed. They're my everydays and no, I don't race. A few fondo's here and there, but primarily I ride solo or with one or two friends. 

$1k for a G3 AND a set of carbons? Whew....tough to let that sale go by. Guess my question is how the Farsports compare to the Reynolds?


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

MMsRepBike said:


> Powertab hubs are notoriously reliable units. *Their G3 is a Novatec design with cheap and easily sourceable replacement parts*. Their GS is a DT Swiss design which speaks for itself. I own a G3.
> 
> They're not very heavy, they will build into any wheel you want, they don't require constant calibration, their data output is accurate enough and reliable, the battery life is quite good and it's super easy to swap, but they lack all the fancy features.
> 
> ...


What Novatec model is the G3 similar to? I have a G3 and I'm curious about this myself should I need parts for my G3 down the road.


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## RoadLight (Nov 8, 2014)

I prefer Stages. I think changing the left crank arm is easier than changing a pedal. And I absolutely do not want a PM in my wheel because then I would have to equip every wheelset with a power meter---which would be the most expensive option for me. And I need Bluetooth---not ANT.

Pedals are not even a possibility for me because none are made for the kind of cleats that I use (SPD on all my road bikes). Traditional road cleats won't work for my kind of endurance training where I may have to walk a few miles if I run into serious bike trouble.

Stages is coming out with new carbon-arm PMs in 2016 and I'll be buying a new one for my SRAM Force/Red drivetrains.

The biggest impediment to the OP going with Stages is that each of his bikes has a different drivetrain system. But Stages are cheap enough that you can buy one for each bike and still be less expensive than most other options. But, really? Two different drivetrain systems? If it were me, both bikes would be SRAM!

_Kind regards, RoadLight_


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

aclinjury said:


> What Novatec model is the G3 similar to? I have a G3 and I'm curious about this myself should I need parts for my G3 down the road.


B2 Type


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

RoadLight said:


> The biggest impediment to the OP going with Stages is that each of his bikes has a different drivetrain system. But Stages are cheap enough that you can buy one for each bike and still be less expensive than most other options. But, really? Two different drivetrain systems? If it were me, both bikes would be SRAM!
> 
> _Kind regards, RoadLight_


not only that... potential the op would have clearance issues if the rear brake is behind the BB on the Madone. My wife madone 6 had this issue with the stages and ended up running an EE cycle works brake.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

MMsRepBike said:


> B2 Type


Nifty to know. Someone else once told me this wouldn't work.

Wheel Parts-FREEHUBS 11SPD

Does the B2-type with the Anti-bite Guard work on a G3 as well?

The thing I don't like about powertaps is that the bearings are crap. I got mine replaced and they felt gritty 3 months later. I'm thinking of getting some decent quality bearings pressed in at my local shop.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

deviousalex said:


> The thing I don't like about powertaps is that the bearings are crap.


Not the Powertap GS with DT Swiss internals.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

tvad said:


> Not the Powertap GS with DT Swiss internals.


Yeah, because I love spending $300 more to get bearings that cost $10 more.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

deviousalex said:


> Yeah, because I love spending $300 more to get bearings that cost $10 more.


Bearings aren't the only difference between the G3 and GS Powertap hubs.

At Wheelbuilder.com, the G3 is $790, and the GS is $840. $50 difference. The complete descriptions can be found there.

Nevertheless, the fact is the bearings are quite good in the Powertap GS hub.


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