# 3T Arx stem actual length?



## blantonator (Apr 25, 2007)

I've been reading that the 3T measure the stems differently and that they are longer than indicated, at least compared to other manufactures. Anyone know how long a 110mm stem is?


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## Dinosaur (Jan 29, 2004)

I have a 3T team and Pro stem. Both are 110's and measure 110.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Differences*



blantonator said:


> I've been reading that the 3T measure the stems differently and that they are longer than indicated, at least compared to other manufactures. Anyone know how long a 110mm stem is?


I think you are confusing handlebar width with stem length. Stems are always measured center to center, but some companies measure bars outside to outside while others measure center to center.


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## dual (Sep 27, 2007)

My 120 mm ARX Pro measures 125 mm c-c along the top of the stem, while the 130 mm measures 130 exactly.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Kerry Irons said:


> I think you are confusing handlebar width with stem length..


Perhaps not. Others have questioned 3T's ability to measure / mark accurately.  

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthrea...with-their-stem-lengths-(umd-I-feel-your-pain)


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## dcl10 (Jul 2, 2010)

This really only has to do with their -17 degree stems. Obviously with an angle that severe both sides cannot be the same length. Different manufacturers handle this differently. PRO for instance has one side that is correct, and another (flipped up) that is short. 3T has one side that is correct, and another that is long (flipped down). Others have no side that is correct and split the difference. If you are using a 6 degree stem it really is not much of an issue as both are more or less equal.


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## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

Just measured my 100mm Team...and it measures 100mm,


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

dcl10 said:


> This really only has to do with their -17 degree stems. Obviously with an angle that severe both sides cannot be the same length. Different manufacturers handle this differently. PRO for instance has one side that is correct, and another (flipped up) that is short. 3T has one side that is correct, and another that is long (flipped down). Others have no side that is correct and split the difference. If you are using a 6 degree stem it really is not much of an issue as both are more or less equal.


You're talking about the horizontal component of stems, where the lower (flipped down) position is actually the one that is "correct" as it cancels out the typical ~73 degree headtube angle.

It'd be dumb to have a measuring basis off effective horizontal length as it'd be inconsistent based on bike and angle. Better to just have the actual length, and have the rider assume responsibility for the turnout (which is like, 2-3 short plug n' chug trig formulas).


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

Ventruck said:


> You're talking about the horizontal component of stems, where the lower (flipped down) position is actually the one that is "correct" as it cancels out the typical ~73 degree headtube angle.
> 
> It'd be dumb to have a measuring basis off effective horizontal length as it'd be inconsistent based on bike and angle. Better to just have the actual length, and have the rider assume responsibility for the turnout (which is like, 2-3 short plug n' chug trig formulas).


Or they could just list both lengths. Head tube angles don't vary enough to seriously impact stem length, but stem angles do.


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## "Fred" (Oct 20, 2006)

I have the 3T lmt in a 110 and it measures 110. I also have the 3T lmt bars and I had to order the 44 because the bars flar out in the bend. They do measure 42 at the hoods which is what fits for me. All measurements are C-C.


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## classtimesailer (Aug 22, 2010)

*TTT measures are upside down.*

I know this is old but...
My 3T stem marked 120 is only 120 when angled up (upside down for me) installed level with the top tube (correctly) it is actually 135mm. Finally figured why my reach was off when I theoretically got a 120 mm stem to replace another 120mm stem. My 120 nitto is measured properly.


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## skepticman (Dec 25, 2005)

I have two 110 mm ARX Team stems and they both measure 115 mm. I also measured some Thomson and Easton stems that didn't match their claimed length. I was measuring to the top center of the bars. Maybe the manufacturers measure to the actual center of the bar. Not sure how much difference that would make though.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

*Well since this thread was revived...*

might as well follow up...



rx-79g said:


> Or they could just list both lengths. Head tube angles don't vary enough to seriously impact stem length, but stem angles do.


Along with HT angles, use of spacers (or general stack height) will also influence final reach length so such numbers are going to become arbitrarily listed on a package.

In the end if you're doing a meticulous fit, the calculations and measurements would be done on the spot anyway.

And classtimesailer, I'm in doubt the measurement isn't true to spec. My -17 degree ARX Team was a true 100mm c-t-c. I don't see why they'd be as off a full 1.5cm.


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## classtimesailer (Aug 22, 2010)

I think each manufacturer measures their own way. 3T measures along what they think will be the top. If I install my 3T stem angled upwards, it measures 120mm exactly. As it is installed now, level with my top tube, it measures more than 130mm.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

skepticman said:


> I have two 110 mm ARX Team stems and they both measure 115 mm. I also measured some Thomson and Easton stems that didn't match their claimed length. I was measuring to the top center of the bars. Maybe the manufacturers measure to the actual center of the bar. Not sure how much difference that would make though.


All I've ever seen measure from the bored center of the steerer, to the bored center of the bar clamp, along the centerline of the stem. I can't say for sure, but I'm fairly convinced that most if not all of the 'issues' on this thread are from people trying to measure in some other, external way.


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## classtimesailer (Aug 22, 2010)

danl1 said:


> All I've ever seen measure from the bored center of the steerer, to the bored center of the bar clamp, along the centerline of the stem. I can't say for sure, but I'm fairly convinced that most if not all of the 'issues' on this thread are from people trying to measure in some other, external way.


Pick up a 3T ARX Team -17 degree stem and measure your way. Then you can say for sure. Their 120mm stem is only 120mm if it is installed as a riser stem. If it is installed level with a standard top tube, it will measure more than 130mm.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

classtimesailer said:


> I think each manufacturer measures their own way. 3T measures along what they think will be the top. If I install my 3T stem angled upwards, it measures 120mm exactly. As it is installed now, level with my top tube, it measures more than 130mm.


And how you measuring this?

The measurement is center to center between clamps. Easiest reference is going to the handlebar clamp there the faceplace meets the stem because it's likely not offset, and measure straight across to the center of the steerer clamp along the longitudinal component of the stem itself - not the horizontal component of surrounding environment









You don't need that exact ruler, but it shows the right method of measurement.

You're not going to find another 135mm out of nowhere unless you've been measuring with an entirely wrong method, or with Fruit by the Foot.


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## classtimesailer (Aug 22, 2010)

Ventruck said:


> And how you measuring this?
> 
> The measurement is center to center between clamps. Easiest reference is going to the handlebar clamp there the faceplace meets the stem because it's likely not offset, and measure straight across to the center of the steerer clamp along the longitudinal component of the stem itself - not the horizontal component of surrounding environment
> 
> ...


That picture is exactly how I have always measured stems, from quill stems to today's threadless. Because you can install an angled threadless stem plus or minus x degrees, there are two lengths available per stem. The shorter and specified length for the 3T ARX Team is measured as in your picture when the stem is installed with a positive angle (upwards). If you install as I have, negative angle and level with the top tube, it measures much longer.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Confused*



classtimesailer said:


> Pick up a 3T ARX Team -17 degree stem and measure your way. Then you can say for sure. Their 120mm stem is only 120mm if it is installed as a riser stem. If it is installed level with a standard top tube, it will measure more than 130mm.


I am very confused by this statement. If you take the stem off the bike and remove the handlebars, you can measure it center to center (as Ventruk's picture shows) and you get the same length whether it is upside down, pointing straight up, or horizontal. I understand that the horizontal reach from the steerer to the bars changes if you flip the stem but I cannot understand how the length of the stem changes.


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## classtimesailer (Aug 22, 2010)

Kerry Irons said:


> I am very confused by this statement. If you take the stem off the bike and remove the handlebars, you can measure it center to center (as Ventruk's picture shows) and you get the same length whether it is upside down, pointing straight up, or horizontal. I understand that the horizontal reach from the steerer to the bars changes if you flip the stem but I cannot understand how the length of the stem changes.


Try it yourself. Measure your -17 stem as per the picture. Then flip it and measure it as per the picture. Two different measurements. Flipped "down", the top of the steerer tube clamp is further away from the bar clamp and the measured stem length is greater then when flipped "up". Take a ruler to a bike shop and clear up your confusion.


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## Yamabushi (Sep 30, 2008)

classtimesailer said:


> Try it yourself. Measure your -17 stem as per the picture. Then flip it and measure it as per the picture. Two different measurements. Flipped "down", the top of the steerer tube clamp is further away from the bar clamp and the measured stem length is greater then when flipped "up". Take a ruler to a bike shop and clear up your confusion.


Why don't you show some pics of how you are doing it?


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

classtimesailer said:


> Try it yourself. Measure your -17 stem as per the picture. Then flip it and measure it as per the picture. Two different measurements. Flipped "down", the top of the steerer tube clamp is further away from the bar clamp and the measured stem length is greater then when flipped "up". Take a ruler to a bike shop and clear up your confusion.


That's the resulting horizontal component of the stem, not the _actual _length. We've been trying to tell you that this whole time.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

classtimesailer said:


> Pick up a 3T ARX Team -17 degree stem and measure your way. Then you can say for sure. Their 120mm stem is only 120mm if it is installed as a riser stem. If it is installed level with a standard top tube, it will measure more than 130mm.


So unbolting and rebolting it makes it grow?

Perhaps you don't know how to take measurements. This is why centerline measurements as I described are used. 

If you measure from the centerline of the steerer to the top of the faceplate on any stem, you will get a different number. That's a function of the angle of the stem (OK, so it wouldn't be for 90/0 degree stems, but those are uncommon on road bikes.) That doesn't make it a "120" or a '130" stem because it was flipped. The handlebar will always be the exact same distance from the steerer, no matter which way it is flipped.

Look at this. The 'extension' is the number we are talking about, and doesn't change no matter which way the stem is flipped. The 'reach' will change, but that's a fitting question, not a measurement one. It's possible that with 3t being an Italian company, there's been some translational difficulties between 'reach' and 'extension' along the way.










(larger version here.)


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

I measure stems along the centerline of the stem between where it intersects the steerer and bars. This length is independent of now you orient the stem, and in the case of the 3T and other stems I have corresponds to their specified length. 

The illustrations in the following calculator show this correctly: 

http://www.brightspoke.com/t/bike-stem-calculator.html

It's not easy to measure this directly because the the point of intersection of the steerer axis and stem axis in inside the stem/steerer.


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## applen (Jan 29, 2014)

looigi said:


> I measure stems along the centerline of the stem between where it intersects the steerer and bars. This length is independent of now you orient the stem, and in the case of the 3T and other stems I have corresponds to their specified length.


This is not the experience I've had. I just got a -17 140mm 3T stem and center of steering axis (in the center of the stem stack height) to center of bar measures 146mm, while the steering axis & bottom plane of stem stack measured to the center of the bar is 140.

I have a Ritchey 130mm -17 stem and that is indeed measured center-to-center (in the center of the steerer clamp stack to center of handlebar clamp). 

So going from my old "130" to my new "140" was actually a 16 mm change in my 'reach' measurement (from a fitting perspective) in the horizontal plane.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

applen said:


> This is not the experience I've had. I just got a -17 140mm 3T stem and center of steering axis (in the center of the stem stack height) to center of bar measures 146mm, while the steering axis & bottom plane of stem stack measured to the center of the bar is 140.
> 
> I have a Ritchey 130mm -17 stem and that is indeed measured center-to-center (in the center of the steerer clamp stack to center of handlebar clamp).
> 
> So going from my old "130" to my new "140" was actually a 16 mm change in my 'reach' measurement (from a fitting perspective) in the horizontal plane.


Welcome to Thread Dredge Thursday.


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## bortcycles (9 mo ago)

Came across this old thread somehow as I was searching for a 17 degree 3T thread. Not sure how some of you get these strange results. I just measured every stem I own on both sides and they are all exactly the same. 😂

Pretty sure most of you are overthinking this. Use a measuring tape and lay it flat from the center of the steer tube clamp to where the plate splits. You'll get the right measurement every time.


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## bortcycles (9 mo ago)

bortcycles said:


> Came across this old thread somehow as I was searching for a 17 degree 3T thread. Not sure how some of you get these strange results. I just measured every stem I own on both sides and they are all exactly the same. 😂
> 
> Pretty sure most of you are overthinking this. Use a measuring tape and lay it flat from the center of the steer tube clamp to where the plate splits. You'll get the right measurement every time.


Also, if you move the stem down lower on the steer tube it's going to change your reach. Flipping the stem and/or changing the angle will have the same effect. But reach does not equal stem length. If you're getting a different measurement from what is specified then you're measuring the reach, not the stem.


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