# Clyde wheels



## respro100 (Jul 15, 2014)

Mind as well face it... I'm never gonna be less than 250 unless I get the old stomach stapled. Not gonna do that. So, I see all these pimping wheels with the logo on them. I'd love to rock them but i'm afraid I'll trash them. I currently ride a Mavic Open Pro with 36 spokes in the back. I've had to have it trued at least once. I'm looking for something to climb with and possibly do some CRITs. Any info appreciated.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

Get a pair of Archetypes, 32 holes each. Lace them 3x on double butted 14/15 ga. spokes on Ultegra hubs for Shimano or Record hubs for Campy and go riding.
A high quality build with equalized spoke tension, stress relief, windup relief and proper spoke bedding will go the furthest for achieving wheel durability.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

XC279 Kinlin [32 and 36 drilling avail] Maybe 36 hole rear and 32 hole front with 14/15 DB spokes, brass nips at least on drive side rear trailing spokes. 

Also Bike hub store has a 31mm tall rim made by Kinlin, and is wider than the Open Pros. 32 hole max drilling. I'd go 15/14 DB spokes and brass nips at least on drive side rear trailing spokes. 


BHS C31w Clincher (XR31T)



EDIT: Infer 3 cross lacing from my trailing spoke reference. Hubs with loose balls would also be my choice.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

dcgriz said:


> Get a pair of Archetypes, 32 holes each. Lace them 3x on double butted 14/15 ga. spokes on Ultegra hubs for Shimano or Record hubs for Campy and go riding.
> A high quality build with equalized spoke tension, stress relief, windup relief and proper spoke bedding will go the furthest for achieving wheel durability.


Good call. The OP needs some rim stiffness that the shallow Open Pro don't have - rims from 25 - 30mm deep and 450-500g in weight. 32/32 should be ok and 32/36 would be better. The hubs can be dictated by available money - Ultegra at the lower end and Dura-Ace, White Industries and Chris King at the upper end. Sapim Race or DT Comp spokes, laced x3. I'd definitely go with nipple washers on non-ferrule rims. Even more important than the parts is the quality of the build and Griz spelled it out in his last sentence.

Edit - and as Rob said - brass nipples.


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## RoadCube (Nov 22, 2006)

Velocity Deep-V rims have been well documented for robust qualities. I am a bit south of your weight and running Velocity Fusion rims and Velocity Race hubs laced 32spokes in rear and radial 28spokes up front without any problems. 
RC


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

A side note on nipple washers with the Archetypes: having built a few sets, several with considerably higher tensions than the "norm" 120 kgf, I find that washers are not needed on these rims for the purpose of controlling the bulging around the spoke drilling and the cracking that may follow. It may be because of the very pointy rim profile or the extrusion extra thickness compared to other rims or quite probably a combination of both.
I only use washers on these rims when I lace them with aluminum nipples for color. I do that for the sole purpose of avoiding the softer nipple material digging into the edge of the rim drilling. The ss washer decouples the two aluminum surfaces and adds a base to apply lubricant.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

For an out of the box wheel, HED Ardennes + CL are rated for 275# riders IRCC.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

dcgriz said:


> A side note on nipple washers with the Archetypes: having built a few sets, several with considerably higher tensions than the "norm" 120 kgf, I find that washers are not needed on these rims for the purpose of controlling the bulging around the spoke drilling and the cracking that may follow. It may be because of the very pointy rim profile or the extrusion extra thickness compared to other rims or quite probably a combination of both.
> I only use washers on these rims when I lace them with aluminum nipples for color. I do that for the sole purpose of avoiding the softer nipple material digging into the edge of the rim drilling. The ss washer decouples the two aluminum surfaces and adds a base to apply lubricant.


Question from a newbie wheel builder - why would you choose to NOT use washers? Is there a downside to their use?


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

ibericb said:


> Question from a newbie wheel builder - why would you choose to NOT use washers? Is there a downside to their use?


For the case of Archetypes and brass nipples, washers do not seem to serve a purpose even at higher tensions, at least according to my findings. These rims show an exceptionally strong profile. So from this point of view, washers are not needed to safeguard the rim from bulging. Additionally, the brass nipples offer adequate decoupling from the rim to protect against corrosion in wet environments where electrolytes are present. No other downside than using a component that does not offer a detectable benefit to the wheel.

Aluminum nips are an entirely different story and as I indicated earlier; I use washers under these conditions to help decouple the nipple-rim interface.

The above is for Archetype only. Rims of flatter profile or thinner extrusions may not be able to reliably withstand long term sustained higher tensions without compromising their durability. Washers then would help.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

Mike T. said:


> The hubs can be dictated by available money - Ultegra at the lower end and Dura-Ace, White Industries and Chris King at the upper end.


Let's not forget Campy Record. 32 hole only but an excellent hub from every perspective.


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## Wetworks (Aug 10, 2012)

Blue CheeseHead said:


> For an out of the box wheel, HED Ardennes + CL are rated for 275# riders IRCC.


Added this to my shortlist, thanks. I typically ride at 217-225 and am now running the stock Fulcrum S5s on my Allez. Should they not hold up, the HEDs look like my best bet for an upgrade. Again, thanks.


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## respro100 (Jul 15, 2014)

Thanks for the replies. At first I was hoping for out of the box recommendations. I'm researching the ones suggested. Now I see that custom wheel builds are popular? If I go that route, I have several questions.
1. Is a quality custom wheel affordable?
2. Can get a "light wheel"
3. If I order the parts, how much can I expect to pay someone to build them for me?
4. Will they look good? At least better than the stock wheels on new bikes?
Thanks, Pics are welcome!


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

ibericb said:


> Question from a newbie wheel builder - why would you choose to NOT use washers? Is there a downside to their use?


On many rims they provide no benefit and on some they make things worse because there isn't room for them... so they press against the sidewalls.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

respro100 said:


> Thanks for the replies. At first I was hoping for out of the box recommendations. I'm researching the ones suggested. Now I see that custom wheel builds are popular? If I go that route, I have several questions.
> 1. Is a quality custom wheel affordable?
> 2. Can get a "light wheel"
> 3. If I order the parts, how much can I expect to pay someone to build them for me?
> ...


1. It can be... it all depends on your choices of components.
2. At your weight? Maybe not for the rear, per se, but you may be able to go with a lighter wheel up front. An option is 32 spokes up front.
3. Check with your LBS. If they have experienced wheel builders, order everything through them.
4. Sure... you can customize as much has you desire to spend.

the Mavic CXP-22 rim should be plenty strong. I would think stronger than the Open Pro, due to its cross-sectional profile.
CXP 22 | Mavic
Shimano 105 hubs is a nice entry level hub for not such much in price.
Brass nipples are typically more durable, but heavier...
so, that leaves the spokes.... that's what's really left that you can attempt to customize.
I would go 15/16/15 ga double butted (1.8mm/2.0mm).... as a safety margin, but... no real selection in spoke colors.

If you want black spokes, then it's going to be thinner double butted ones. DT Competition 14/15/14 are available in Black, silver, white & red....


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

tednugent said:


> 3. Check with your LBS. If they have experienced wheel builders, order everything through them.


That would be very rare. 

To the OP, there are many places you can get custom wheels built and they will be as good as the person who builds them. They usually sell the parts also, rather than you buying the parts and having them build them. 

Prices will vary a lot depending on what you select. If you choose say 105 hubs, double butted spokes, and Kinlin rims you'd be looking at ~$400 or so, and it goes up from there. White Industries hubs and bladed spokes ~$800.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

rruff said:


> That would be very rare.
> 
> To the OP, there are many places you can get custom wheels built and they will be as good as the person who builds them. They usually sell the parts also, rather than you buying the parts and having them build them.
> 
> Prices will vary a lot depending on what you select. If you choose say 105 hubs, double butted spokes, and Kinlin rims you'd be looking at ~$400 or so, and it goes up from there. White Industries hubs and bladed spokes ~$800.


Maybe I'm lucky that in my neck of the woods, there are a few good wheel builders from various shops. And my LBS snatched up a few of them.


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## RoadCube (Nov 22, 2006)

One other sticking point for lightweight hubs are alloy free hub bodies. You stated that you wanted some light wheels for climbing; some of the light weight hubs have aluminum hub bodies that are susceptible to marring/scoring. With all your power, this could be an issue. You may need a bite gard or tougher hub body. 
RC


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

RoadCube said:


> One other sticking point for lightweight hubs are alloy free hub bodies. You stated that you wanted some light wheels for climbing; some of the light weight hubs have aluminum hub bodies that are susceptible to marring/scoring. With all your power, this could be an issue. You may need a bite gard or tougher hub body.
> RC


With even the top level hub makers having a mixed bag of hub bodies, maybe the issue is more on a personal level than a materials level. For instance, Chris king hubs have mostly aluminum bodies (I think steel is till an option) and DuraAce and White opt for titanium. Lower end Shimano are steel and Taiwan hubs are aluminum; some with steel-edged bite-guard.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

RoadCube said:


> One other sticking point for lightweight hubs are alloy free hub bodies. You stated that you wanted some light wheels for climbing; some of the light weight hubs have aluminum hub bodies that are susceptible to marring/scoring. With all your power, this could be an issue. You may need a bite gard or tougher hub body.
> RC


Metals used in production for bicycles are alloys in general.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

tednugent said:


> Metals used in production for bicycles are alloys in general.


Yep, an alloy is simply a blend of materials. I am unaware of a "pure" metal used on a bicycle. (steel is an iron alloy)


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## dgaddis1 (Sep 27, 2008)

Back on topic. Another vote for Ultegra & Archetypes. Here's a set I built recently so you can see pics: Bill’s Ultegra Based Road Wheels

The Archetype rims are cool looking, but the black on the brake track will wear off with time and miles. Polished silver is also an option FYI.


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## RoadCube (Nov 22, 2006)

Okay, soft alloy freehub body may be gouged under extreme power. Bite guard, titanium or steel is a way to prevent gouging.
RC


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

RoadCube said:


> Okay, soft alloy freehub body may be gouged under extreme power. Bite guard, titanium or steel is a way to prevent gouging.
> RC


Yebbut Chris King, arguably the maker of the "best" hubs, sells most of their hubs with aluminum freehub bodies. I don't think they worry too much.


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## RoadCube (Nov 22, 2006)

Okay, lightweight soft (not saying who's or material) freehub bodies may be gouged by a 250lb rider putting out typical power in a crit race or climbing. 
For the next lightweight wheel, OP should be sensitive to potential gouging with 
Cassettes (Shimano especially).
RC


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

Gouging of the freehub body is not that big of a deal. At 200# I have gouged a few. Yes it makes removing the cassette stickey, but nothing touching it with a file on occasion won't remedy.


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## RoadCube (Nov 22, 2006)

For the OP, these are Clyde wheels. And this rider has power. If the OP has no issues with his new rear wheel freehub being gouged then this is a non-issue.
Some examples of soft aluminum body gouges:

://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/do-bontrager-race-lite-tlr-wheels-use-shimano-brand-freehub-343105.html


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## BelgianHammer (Apr 10, 2012)

Respro100,

You might find this thread I started a few months ago interesting:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wh...-32h-32h-pre-built-builds-anymore-343927.html


it's interesting to read some people's responses in that thread, and then read their responses here. The RBR forums are simply that jack-of-all-trades best there is, haha 

I'm only around 200lb (only time I ever get to write I am a little pup) but let us know what you go with and decide upon. I'm glad to see here the recognition that more spokes do matter for those of us with the number 2 in our descriptions. More spokes do make a stronger, more durable wheel, and wheelbuilders should offer more pre-options targetting this set. some do. And I'm sure this was already mentioned, but outside of the H+ Sons (which I can attest to are outstanding), another option to consider are Boyd Cycling's 28/32 or 32/32 builds. Darn tough wheels, as are WMD's a280 28/32 set. Everything that's been said in this thread, though, is solid advice. Just make sure whatever you do to not skimp on trying for fewer spokes and/or using a known soft rim. 

Good luck!!!


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## samh (May 5, 2004)

*Gray Archetype*



dgaddis1 said:


> Back on topic. Another vote for Ultegra & Archetypes. Here's a set I built recently so you can see pics: Bill’s Ultegra Based Road WheelsThe Archetype rims are cool looking, but the black on the brake track will wear off with time and miles. Polished silver is also an option FYI.


Does gray color wear off quickly/severely too?


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## willstylez (Sep 15, 2011)

I also agree with the H+Son recommendation! I have a set of Archetypes built around White Industry Hubs.....


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## dgaddis1 (Sep 27, 2008)

samh said:


> Does gray color wear off quickly/severely too?


Yep, any color will, other than the polished silver ones of course.


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## Tunnelrat81 (Mar 18, 2007)

tednugent said:


> 1. It can be... it all depends on your choices of components.
> 2. At your weight? Maybe not for the rear, per se, but you may be able to go with a lighter wheel up front. An option is 32 spokes up front.
> 3. Check with your LBS. If they have experienced wheel builders, order everything through them.
> 4. Sure... you can customize as much has you desire to spend.
> ...


Just to point out a small error here that could cause confusion. 14/15/14 ga spokes are the thicker ones, 15/16/15 would be the thinner ones.

I tend to prefer slightly overbuilt wheels where possible, so my recommendation would be to stick with the heavier gauge 14/15/14 spokes (2.0-1.8-2.0mm) for strength on this kind of wheel. I think tednugent (quoted here) was suggesting the same thing. 

Just my .02, but I don't think 'light weight' should be on your short list of must haves unless you're not worried about durability. You can't have it all. If you try to nudge the weight down too much you'll end up with another wheel set that you don't trust and requires just as much tinkering as what you already have. If you're in crit fitness, at your weight you'll be putting down some big power through these wheels in sprinting conditions. which would be asking a lot of most light weight wheels on the market today.

-Jeremy


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## Z'mer (Oct 28, 2013)

I like this set of prebuilt wheels for $500 - about $100 more than doing it yourself for the pair 
32H F&R, Shimano Ultegra 6800 hubs, HED Belgium C2 rims, DT 14/15 butted spokes
~1830g
HED Belgium Kermesse Front Wheel - Road Clincher Wheels - Excel Sports

HED Belgium Kermesse Rear Wheel - Road Clincher Wheels - Excel Sports


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## bikerector (Oct 31, 2012)

I think going custom is a great option for you. You shouldn't hesitate to go with a shimano 105 hub either if you're budget doesn't allow the ultegra hub. You'll likely need to grease them right out of the box since they are commonly built up with little grease for some reason, not sure why.

For a "semi-custom" option, I've become a fan of boyd cycling wheels. They offer a coupe builds for each rim and they do a good job. They're one of the few carbon wheels I can get with confidence since there aren't many carbon wheels with weight limits for the racing clyde. The altamont is a great option, I am 225 currently and have been running the 24/28 build for almost 600 miles this spring and it feels pretty solid. Far from a long term report but since I haven't had to true it at all, it was at least built up right. The 28/32 option claims no weight limit.

I think pacenti also has some options that would be a pretty solid build on their website.


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## steinercat (Apr 7, 2015)

The Stan's Grail Comp seem like a sturdy enough set. (rated for upto 250lbs riders).


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## acidzerocool (Aug 1, 2007)

Not sure what wheel you are looking at but me being 250lbs and people say I'm a powerful rider. I ride Fulcrum Racing 1 and never once had an issue. And I bunny hop railroad tracks and pot holes every group ride. I also roll on a 23c but meaning to change that next tire purchase. I wouldn't be to worried what wheel to go with. Just go out have fun and try out what ever wheel you fancy!

Cheers!


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

OP, I feel your pain.

I have a set of Velocity Deep Vs (36h, 105 hubs) and a set of H PLUS SON Archetypes (32h, 105 hubs). Both sets were built by prowheelbuilder.com. I liked them because I could choose my own components to get the balance of strength and price I was looking for. Out of the box, the build quality of both sets was excellent and they've stayed that way. You might want to check them out.

I get the trickle-down philosophy where people want the uber-light racing wheels they see the pros use. I just wish there were more options for big guys like us who cared more about durability.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

My all around wheel is 32 Spoke HED C2 Belguim Plus on Chris King R45 hubs. Continental GP 4Season 700/25c tires.

Im 6ft 5in, 245lbs. These wheels are bomb proof. Over 4k miles and I've never even had to true them.

I bought them directly from chrisking.com/wheels (via my LBS of course),


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## Tunnelrat81 (Mar 18, 2007)

Migen21 said:


> My all around wheel is 32 Spoke HED C2 Belguim Plus on Chris King R45 hubs. Continental GP 4Season 700/25c tires.
> 
> Im 6ft 5in, 245lbs. These wheels are bomb proof. Over 4k miles and I've never even had to true them.
> 
> I bought them directly from chrisking.com/wheels (via my LBS of course),


If the ~$100 price tag per rim doesn't scare you off, the HED C2 rims are fantastic. Trueness and finish quality are excellent. I've had a set of them for a couple of years and I haven't touched them since taking them off of my truing stand after the original build up. I've also had the opportunity this year to build up maybe 6-10 wheelsets with a mix of the C2 and C2 pluses, and all have been top notch quality and given me very little issue with building. My personal wheelset is 24/28h as I'm somewhat of a lightweight, but most of the sets I've recently built are 32H front and rear, or 32H rear, 24-28 front. All in all, they are hard to beat EXCEPT for the significantly higher price. 

-Jeremy


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## respro100 (Jul 15, 2014)

*Down to 2r 3 choices, a question.*

OP here. So I've finally trashed the Mavic open pro 32 spoke wheel. Time to decide. Here are my narrowed choices. 
1. Velocity deep v 36 spoke double butted with 105 hub.
2. H + son 36 spoke double butted with 105 hub. 
Now here comes a "hot deal" from this site. 

AEROMAX PRO HD 700c Road Bike Wheelset 36/36H 7-11s Shimano/SRAM Hub N | Random Bike Parts

Anyone know anything about these wheels?
Thanks!


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## Soonerinfrisco (May 30, 2006)

dgaddis1 said:


> Back on topic. Another vote for Ultegra & Archetypes. Here's a set I built recently so you can see pics: Bill’s Ultegra Based Road Wheels
> 
> The Archetype rims are cool looking, but the black on the brake track will wear off with time and miles. Polished silver is also an option FYI.


Sweet! What did Bill H pay for those beauties? Ballpark is fine.

thanks


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

respro100 said:


> OP here. So I've finally trashed the Mavic open pro 32 spoke wheel. Time to decide. Here are my narrowed choices.
> 1. Velocity deep v 36 spoke double butted with 105 hub.
> 2. H + son 36 spoke double butted with 105 hub.
> Now here comes a "hot deal" from this site.
> ...



Nothing more than the description offered in their site and it is that description that prompts me to suggest to you to stay away. A "hot deal" all right but maybe hot enough to burn yourself with it.

A few observations reading the material on the linked site:

Their description about the loose ball/cone bearings demerits is rather "loose". 

They use straight gauge spokes. You will be much better served with 14/15 ga. double butted spokes keeping the wheel tight.

The .3" lateral tolerance stated is bogus. I think they missed a few decimals or used the wrong units because at 7.62 mm trueness the wheel would be interesting to watch when spinning. Point is that if the QC of the description used to sell these wheels is poor, it does not instill much confidence for the rest of the package.

The claim to fame of being "Stressed three times" is meaningless. Better than being stressed 0 times but still inadequate if more are needed. You stress the wheel between tensioning sessions as many times as it takes to raise the tension where it needs to be and maintain equal tensions between spokes. Rims of poorer quality typically suffer from high lateral and/or radial variation tolerances and are harder to build with equalized spoke tensions so more tension-stress-tension sessions are needed.

Not much info on the rim. Maybe good, maybe not. 

At your weight you need a top quality rim at no less than around 470 grams. A top quality rim will be laterally/radially true and will help the wheelbuilder to equalize the tensions between spokes much easier. This alone is one of the most crucial merits of a high quality build which is what any clyde needs. The Archetype is such rim. I have built enough 32h Archetypes for friends around your weight to know that Archetype/Ultegra or 105 with 14/15 butted spokes is bombproof enough without feeling dead.


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## respro100 (Jul 15, 2014)

OP here, So here's what I went with.

Kinlin XC 279 rim, 36 spoke
Shimano 105 FH 5800 Hub
Sapim Leader J bend spokes with a 3 cross lacing pattern.
Sapim Polyax 14 gauge brass nipples.

This rear wheel weighed 1088.76 grams sans cassette.

The wheel replaced a mavic open pro 32 spoke that had to be trued at least 5 times in the last 300 miles I rode on it.
So here's my opinion on the new wheel. I have a few hundred miles on it so far. I have ridden this wheel over pot holes, rail road tracks, bunny hopped, etc. It is as true today as it was the first ride. I was concerned that the weight of the wheel would hurt me in the group rides do. Nope, Riding in a pace line at 26mph is no problem. 26 Is smokin for me. Bridging gaps is no different than any other wheel I've ridden. As a matter fact I think I'm faster with this wheel (I wonder if its more aero) than any other wheel I've ridden. I bought this wheel from ProWheelBuilder.com. The guys custom built it for me after we talked about it for a few minutes. I was told that this wheel will be strong enough for me at 280lbs, they were right! I highly recommend the guys at PWB for anyone needing a wheel built. The customer service and the quality are top notch.


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## respro100 (Jul 15, 2014)

Another update. The Kinlin XC 279 is still going strong. I've been rough on this wheel. Accidentally hitting pot holes that will jar teeth loose. The wheel is still true and hasn't given me one problem. I can honestly say that I would recommend this wheel for anyone looking for a good quality wheel.


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