# Witness Greg LeMond



## gman3215 (Dec 26, 2002)

What are thinking he could contribute? I love watching his races (who could forget the 1989 Tour), but why would they want to call him as a witness? Anyone?


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

gman3215 said:


> What are thinking he could contribute? I love watching his races (who could forget the 1989 Tour), but why would they want to call him as a witness? Anyone?


Landis trial or Basso doping trial?


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## gman3215 (Dec 26, 2002)

*Landis trial*

Sorry, Greg was included on the USADA's list of witnesses against Landis.


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## BikinCO (Feb 17, 2004)

*Same old Greg*



gman3215 said:


> What are thinking he could contribute? I love watching his races (who could forget the 1989 Tour), but why would they want to call him as a witness? Anyone?


Bitterness and hearsay. 

It would be great if he was being constructive with his comments and actions, but I think it is just self-serving. He does not care about the sport. Which is a shame because I believe that he could have made a bigger impact on cycling after he retired that just a bike bearing his name.


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## wayneanneli (Jul 8, 2004)

BikinCO said:


> Bitterness and hearsay.
> 
> It would be great if he was being constructive with his comments and actions, but I think it is just self-serving. He does not care about the sport. Which is a shame because I believe that he could have made a bigger impact on cycling after he retired that just a bike bearing his name.


Maybe I've been asleep for too long, but what is he bitter about? His career? Lack of support after retirement? etc?


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

BikinCO said:


> Bitterness and hearsay.
> 
> It would be great if he was being constructive with his comments and actions, but I think it is just self-serving. He does not care about the sport. Which is a shame because I believe that he could have made a bigger impact on cycling after he retired that just a bike bearing his name.


Turns out most of what he has been yapping about is True.  

What has been incorrect?


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

wayneanneli said:


> Maybe I've been asleep for too long, but what is he bitter about? His career? Lack of support after retirement? etc?


 I think he feels he was cut down in his prime by the advent of EPO. Now, he paints everyone with the same "drug" brush. That being said, most of what he says about doping I believe to be true.


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## Jim Nazium (Feb 3, 2004)

Fignon's Barber said:


> I think he feels he was cut down in his prime by the advent of EPO. Now, he paints everyone with the same "drug" brush. That being said, most of what he says about doping I believe to be true.


That, and he's still PO'd about having to ride for Hinault in the 1985 TDF. I'm a fan of LeMond's racing, but the bitterness is unbecoming. After 22 years, it might be time to move on.


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## Kestreljr (Jan 10, 2007)

Jim Nazium said:


> That, and he's still PO'd about having to ride for Hinault in the 1985 TDF. I'm a fan of LeMond's racing, but the bitterness is unbecoming. After 22 years, it might be time to move on.


+1 to this. I like the guy's racing- and he might have very valid points about the improvements to the sport, but he just appears to be a bitter old man. Lots of ways to get your message out, but he lets his emotions get the best of him when it comes to "quote time" with reporters.


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## ElvisMerckx (Oct 11, 2002)

BikinCO said:


> He does not care about the sport.


I think it's the exact opposite. He loves cycling, but he hates corruption within it.



BikinCO said:


> Which is a shame because I believe that he could have made a bigger impact on cycling after he retired that just a bike bearing his name.


How soon we forget all of the lobbying and sponsorship he's fed back into the sport over the years. I for one rode ove of dozens of LeMonds he donated to our amateur team years ago.

What's Lance done? Floyd? et al?


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## Kestreljr (Jan 10, 2007)

ElvisMerckx said:


> What's Lance done?


I agree with you that Lemond loves cycling... But lets not ask what Lance has done for the sport. I don't like the guy personally, but I would bet he has a bigger percentage (and *percentage* is the key word here) impact in the growth of cycling in America then any other American athlete has had in thier respective sport. 

The runner up would be Tiger Woods IMO. He has opened up Golf to an entire new generation. And thus the sport has grown (maybe), but I don't think that even Tiger or Jordan has single-handily had an impact in the growth of the average consumer entering the sport to the magnitude that LA has.


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## ElvisMerckx (Oct 11, 2002)

Kestreljr said:


> I would bet he has a bigger percentage (and *percentage* is the key word here) impact in the growth of cycling in America then any other American athlete has had in thier respective sport.


I'd love to see numbers to support this claim. 

I've been active in the sport for more than 20 years. My hometown had 3 bike shops in the late '80s -- today there are none. Our local races used to attract 70+ juniors per event, today a big junior field has 12.

The only growth I've seen in cycling is the number of middle-aged guys who think they're Lance, but ride like drunks.


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## Kestreljr (Jan 10, 2007)

ElvisMerckx said:


> I've been active in the sport for more than 20 years. My hometown had 3 bike shops in the late '80s -- today there are none.
> 
> The only growth I've seen in cycling is the number of middle-aged guys who think they're Lance, but ride like drunks.


Well to begin, many LBS grew lazy and used the same business model based in the late 70's despite changes in how business is done. The death of many LBS has more to do with bad business models then the slow death of cycling. The growth of business in Specialized, Trek, Giro, Cannonade, etc... would de-bunk your theory that cycling isn't growing. Read about the founder of Performance Bike to learn more about LBS sucking; it is very interesting, but for sure a separate thread. 

Again, I don't have numbers, nor would I know how one could ever measure this kind of thing... but I didn't say the sport has grown over the past 20 years, my point is that I have a suspicion that a higher percentage of people have entered the sport of cycling because of Lance then have people started playing basketball b/c of Jordan, or people have started playing golf because of tiger, etc.....

I am not saying I am 100% right, but name an athlete that has brought more people into their sport then Lance has. (I can't think of one, but there certainly could be some good examples...)


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## ElvisMerckx (Oct 11, 2002)

Kestreljr said:


> Name an athlete that has brought more people into their sport then Lance has. (I can't think of one, but I there certainly could be some good examples...)


Greg LeMond 
Mark Spitz
Jim Thorpe
Mickey Mantle
Lou Gerhig
Mohammed Ali
Jesse Owens
Jim Fixx


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## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

Kestreljr said:


> Read about the founder of Performance Bike to learn more about LBS sucking; it is very interesting, but for sure a separate thread.


Here is one article. Interesting.

http://www.inc.com/magazine/19910801/4779.html


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## harlond (May 30, 2005)

ElvisMerckx said:


> Greg LeMond
> Mark Spitz
> Jim Thorpe
> Mickey Mantle
> ...


I wasn't around to witness the growth of the decathlon after Jim Thorpe. Was it really that big?


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*hmmmm*



ElvisMerckx said:


> Greg LeMond
> Mark Spitz
> Jim Thorpe
> Mickey Mantle
> ...



Babe Ruth
Larry Bird
Michael Jordan


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## ElvisMerckx (Oct 11, 2002)

harlond said:


> I wasn't around to witness the growth of the decathlon after Jim Thorpe. Was it really that big?


You must be kidding. Jim Thorpe was best known for brining Tiddlywinks into the mainstream (fight sarcasm with sarcasm).


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## Kestreljr (Jan 10, 2007)

ElvisMerckx said:


> Greg LeMond
> Mark Spitz
> Jim Thorpe
> Mickey Mantle
> ...



Some of the people on your list I think are way off the LA level. Still, being well known is not what I am talking about. I wonder how many more people actually took a punch in the ring and became a boxer b/c of Mohammad Ali. Yes, he was a household name, but the focus is bringing people into the sport.

Same with Jesse Owens- he was a political figure. I don't think the tracks started filling up b/c of his accomplishments. 

I would say that some of your baseball greats probably did bring lots and lots of youngsters into the sport.


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## wasfast (Feb 3, 2004)

They also include Eddy Merckx( can't remember which side he's with here). Sounds like a retro rewind. 

I have no idea if Flandis doped but I do know that the process and testing is anything but working well.


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## ElvisMerckx (Oct 11, 2002)

Kestreljr said:


> Some of the people on your list I think are way off the LA level. Still, being well known is not what I am talking about. I wonder how many more people actually took a punch in the ring and became a boxer b/c of Mohammad Ali. Yes, he was a household name, but the focus is bringing people into the sport.
> 
> Same with Jesse Owens- he was a political figure. I don't think the tracks started filling up b/c of his accomplishments.
> 
> I would say that some of your baseball greats probably did bring lots and lots of youngsters into the sport.


You seem to be looking at sports history through a straw, in that your 'historical' perspective is equal to the personal perspective of your short lifespan. If it weren't for Jesse Owens, black athletes wouldn't be where they are today. And, yes, the tracks filled up because of him, and not just with black athletes. Ali was the first athlete with a personality cult -- and yes, he filled gyms in his day with hopeful young boxers. The others, Thorpe, for example, brought football nearly up to the popularity level of baseball.


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## Kestreljr (Jan 10, 2007)

ElvisMerckx said:


> What's Lance done?


I think my point has been made. Regardless, of what american athelete has had the biggest influence, the overall point was that: love'm or hate'm Lance has had a tremendous impact in the sport of cycling. To claim otherwise would be ludacris. :thumbsup:


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## ElvisMerckx (Oct 11, 2002)

Kestreljr said:


> I think my point has been made. Regardless, of what american athelete has had the biggest influence, the overall point was that: love'm or hate'm Lance has had a tremendous impact in the sport of cycling.


No, now you're revising your point to fit the point you failed to make. Here's your original statement:



Kestreljr said:


> I would bet he has a bigger percentage (and percentage is the key word here) impact in the growth of cycling in America then any other American athlete has had in thier respective sport.


You failed to make that point.


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## Kestreljr (Jan 10, 2007)

ElvisMerckx said:


> No, now you're revising your point to fit the point you failed to make. Here's your original statement:



I still stand behind my assertion, I just think it is sensless to debate as you have your thought- that seems reasonable, and I have my point, that seems reasonable. but *NEITHER ONE OF US CAN EVER PROVE ANY OF IT.*

Meanwhile, your point that "What has Lance done"- if you are implying that he hasn't done anything for cycling, then America would say you are wrong.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

Kestreljr said:


> I still stand behind my assertion ...


Armstrong isn't even #1 in cycling. No American comes close to Major Taylor.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*wakey wakey*



asgelle said:


> Armstrong isn't even #1 in cycling. No American comes close to Major Taylor.


Joe six pack has zero idea who Major Taylor was. Joe six pack knows Lance Armstrong and might recall Geg Lemond. Joe sixpack hoped Lance was not jealous because when he won TDF #5, they all had to EAT CROW. HA ha ha.

As far as great American cyclists, what about Marty Nothstein or Andy Hampsted.

Marty has Olympic gold, world gold, and 28+National championships. Not a slacker huh?


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

ttug said:


> Joe six pack has zero idea who Major Taylor was.


Since the assertion was for the largest percentage growth, it has to be read as contemporary growth, not current. It's irrelevant how well known Major Taylor is today.


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## Guest (May 17, 2007)

ttug said:


> Joe six pack has zero idea who Major Taylor was. Joe six pack knows Lance Armstrong and might recall Geg Lemond. Joe sixpack hoped Lance was not jealous because when he won TDF #5, they all had to EAT CROW. HA ha ha.
> 
> As far as great American cyclists, what about Marty Nothstein or Andy Hampsted.
> 
> Marty has Olympic gold, world gold, and 28+National championships. Not a slacker huh?



Quick Question - who the hell is Andy Hampsted ????????????


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## DMFT (Feb 3, 2005)

*OOOoooohhhh Stop It........*



asgelle said:


> Armstrong isn't even #1 in cycling. No American comes close to Major Taylor.


.......Puuhhhhhlease............


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## daneil (Jun 25, 2002)

toomanybikes said:


> Quick Question - who the hell is Andy Hampsted ????????????


I have no idea, but his name is awfully similar to the guy that was the only American to win the Giro (1988- 7-11) and the guy that won the Maillot Blanc the same year that Lemond won the Tour(1986- both Lemond and Hampsten were on La Vie Claire). 

_btw, Hampsten is the reason I first got interested in cycling as a child. He was on a 7-11 cup with those huge Oakleys._


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*pssst*



daneil said:


> I have no idea, but his name is awfully similar to the guy that was the only American to win the Giro (1988- 7-11) and the guy that won the Maillot Blanc the same year that Lemond won the Tour(1986- both Lemond and Hampsten were on La Vie Claire).
> 
> _btw, Hampsten is the reason I first got interested in cycling as a child. He was on a 7-11 cup with those huge Oakleys._



First American to win Alpe de huez.

Yeah, my spelling sucks...how about that


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## daneil (Jun 25, 2002)

ttug said:


> First American to win Alpe de huez.


And with massive style points shedding three other breakaway riders on the ascent.


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

Doesn't USA cyling include MTB licenses in their numbers now? They weren't in the numbers from the Lemond years. Take those out and factor in population growth and the percentage of the population in licensed road racing may have been lower with LA than with Lemond.

For that matter I'm not that sure they aren't counting BMX now too.


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

ElvisMerckx said:


> I'd love to see numbers to support this claim.
> 
> I've been active in the sport for more than 20 years. My hometown had 3 bike shops in the late '80s -- today there are none. Our local races used to attract 70+ juniors per event, today a big junior field has 12.
> 
> The only growth I've seen in cycling is the number of middle-aged guys who think they're Lance, but ride like drunks.


Sorry we don't measure up to your divine opinion of what a cyclist should be. This is, though, a perfect example of why bike _racing_ has not grown. Mind if I quote you in future discussions on the subject? - TF


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## ElvisMerckx (Oct 11, 2002)

TurboTurtle said:


> Sorry we don't measure up to your divine opinion of what a cyclist should be. This is, though, a perfect example of why bike _racing_ has not grown. Mind if I quote you in future discussions on the subject? - TF


What on earth are you talking about?


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Mountain biking has helped the sport a lot in the last 20 years, more than LA I would say. Look at american bike companies like Trek, Specialized, Cannondale... they all started to grow as mountain biking became more popular. Kind of like what the snowboard industry did to the ski industry (although the ski industry was going downhill, road cycling wasn't).


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## Kestreljr (Jan 10, 2007)

TurboTurtle said:


> Sorry we don't measure up to your divine opinion of what a cyclist should be. This is, though, a perfect example of why bike _racing_ has not grown. Mind if I quote you in future discussions on the subject? - TF


My sentiments too- I was trying to stay focused in my response earlier but this line: 



> The only growth I've seen in cycling is the number of middle-aged guys who think they're Lance, but ride like drunks.


God forbid that there is a local dad who just wants to go out for a Sunday ride and isn't at the "totally awesome local Sunday morning club race." Thinking of the sport as confined to the number of people racing or holding a license shows a disconnection with the industry. There is more to this thing then Flanders and ToC.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*come on man!*



ElvisMerckx said:


> I'd love to see numbers to support this claim.
> 
> I've been active in the sport for more than 20 years. My hometown had 3 bike shops in the late '80s -- today there are none. Our local races used to attract 70+ juniors per event, today a big junior field has 12.
> 
> The only growth I've seen in cycling is the number of middle-aged guys who think they're Lance, but ride like drunks.



Look, who do you think has the disposable income to pay for the bikes for the kids who want to get into the sport? Its those middle aged guys who cant seem to hit your standard of what a racer should be.

Look, it takes charater and strength to know your limits and then live with them. MOST of the folks who are here will never race at the level where it makes a diff as to how you are "on the bike". 

]Give me a break. Its a bicycle. Its fun. Dont drain the fun out by transmitting your twisted cry for help that usually takes the form of "serious cycling". Most of the folks who I train with were either CAT3's dedicated cycling folk and folks in general who enjoy riding. Were they great on a bike? Did they ride like drunks? How the fvck do I know? I train to ride better at centuries and TT's. Its fun.

Fun things attract people because they are.......cool things to do. Turning every ride into a death march and telling people about serious cycling is just inane and will kill this sport. 

Ride what you want, ride how you want but dont tell me to be more dedicated or serious when I did not ask and can still drop you like a statue.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*yup*



daneil said:


> And with massive style points shedding three other breakaway riders on the ascent.


I still watch that stage on the trainer. OH MY GOD that must have hurt.


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## ElvisMerckx (Oct 11, 2002)

Wow, just wow. Many of you really need some reading comprehension training.

The "sport" of cycling, ie, racing, is in worse shape than it was 20 years ago. Suddenly, everyone's on my case for lamenting the fact that the limited growth in the 'recreational' side of cycling, won't improve the 'sport.' The sport needs more juniors. If you think otherwise, bash away. Otherwise, chill out.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*wow*



ElvisMerckx said:


> Wow, just wow. Many of you really need some reading comprehension training.
> 
> The "sport" of cycling, ie, racing, is in worse shape than it was 20 years ago. Suddenly, everyone's on my case for lamenting the fact that the limited growth in the 'recreational' side of cycling, won't improve the 'sport.' The sport needs more juniors. If you think otherwise, bash away. Otherwise, chill out.


Where do you think the Juniors come from?

Let me guess, they live on an island and when the time comes, a giant ship comes by and says Hey we need more Juniors....Nope, they come from those sad and shabby recreational folks.

Having known and trained with Juniors on the 7-11 squad a million years ago, the sport is in the shape it is because of all of the spoiled juniors. IF you are a junior, its time to get some medicine so that bug up your bumm will die and you can stop ruining the sport with the snob attitude.


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## TheMaxx (Aug 1, 2005)

I don't think it has anything to do with cycling. I think all of these guys care equally for the sport. There is just bad blood personally between Lemond and Lance, and therefore Floyd because he is on the Lance side. Lemond is upset that he is no longer the greatest American cyclist, and I'm sure Lance probably snubbed him at some point because we all know that Lance is a jerk.
Just look at how Lemond has now tried to make this debacle about him. I'm very sorry for what happened to him as a child, and I hope Will Geogehan gets what he deserves someday, but none of this has anything to do with whether or not Floyd cheated. Let's keep the focus on how the French are attempting to disgrace American cycling, and not do it for them.


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## Kestreljr (Jan 10, 2007)

TheMaxx said:


> Just look at how Lemond has now tried to make this debacle about him.


Didn't Floyd's manager confess that he made that phone call?


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