# Roubaix fork hosed?



## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

After about a year or so of reasonably trouble free riding I took my Roubaix front end apart (to change the stem and handle bar) and discovered that the expander plug had been over torqued to the point where the spacers below the plug do not slide up anymore and get stuck.

I was able to remove the top cup of the expander plug, but it seems the bolt that connects the top and bottom does not have a washer that would engage the top cup properly. The bearing pre-loading with the steerer tube top cap is now a somewhat haphazard proposition, in that the combination just engages the bottom half of the expander plug (even if it is stuck in the tube). 

I'm trying to figure out if there is a way to salvage this whole mess, or am I doomed to buy a new fork (assuming I can even get one from Specialized) and expander plug assembly?

I'm not sure if any of the above is clear enough for anyone to give me some advice?

Thanks,

Ed


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## 67fb (Jul 30, 2007)

The bottom of the expander plug gets pulled up and sort of locked into the cheese grater ( middle section ) of the whole assembly. To pull the whole thing out, you have to tap the bottom section out of the middle section. Not sure if thats the issue, that you have the top out, and the middle and bottom are still stuck in the forK?


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

I actually encountered the same issue with my Roubaix fork. But my issue was slightly different. I removed the expander bolt and the top cap and then went on to shorten the carbon steerer tube a bit. When I put the top cap back on (bottom expander plug was stuck)...the top cap wedged into the slotted sleeve which was also stuck. In fact, I posted an inquiry like yours and received some good advice and some ridiculous trolling by some ignorant members and so I deleted the thread. For those that offered their good advice, I successfully used a bearing puller to remove the top cap that was wedged in place due to shortening the steerer with stuck slotted sleeve. I simply have left the top cap off with expander bolt threaded in place with ample thread engagement to both the lower expander plug and top headset preload screw. It has been fine like this.

This is what I suggest for you...what I will be doing in a month or so when I tear down the bike for winter maintenance...and I am also changing the groupset from Campy to Dura Ace on my Roubaix Pro.

- Remove the stem and handlebar
- Remove the front brake caliper and front wheel.
- Remove the fork from the bike.
- with top cap off and expander bolt removed, insert a deep socket which is only slightly smaller than the ID of the carbon steerer tube. Make sure to insert the socket with the thin walled socket part inside the steerer tube. Now, the deep socket should protrude well outside the top of the carbon steerer tube. If it doesn't, install a short extension to the deep socket. Tape the socket and/or extension to the carbon tube to ensure it stays in place.
- Invert the fork and pound the fork down into a hard surface...a very hard surface is best for jarring effect.

The lower expander should come free. Once the lower expander is free, the slotted sleeve should be free to move and remove. Once the slotted sleeve is removed, the lower expander should fall out the top of the steerer. Reassemble the expander and then drop it back in and adjust with top cap flush to the top of the carbon steerer.. There is a torque spec for the expander bolt I have some place...may find it later.

Hope that makes sense and give it a try. Only cavaet is...when you invert the fork and use the mass of the fork to pound out the lower expander plug with deep socket, don't crash the carbon steerer into the ground when the bottom expander plug breaks free.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

Thank you both very much, this was precisely what I was thinking, but I was hoping to leave the fork in place. Not sure how to get the fork off without removing the spacer rings and I can't get them off with the expander stuck and creating a slight bulge in the tube. 

Funny you should mention your intention of cutting the tube, roadworthy, that was exactly my intent in doing this in the first place. In my case the sleeve and lower expander are stuck high enough in the tube, that cutting wouldn't be possible without removing at least the sleeve first.

I'll have to give this a try now that the rainy season seems to have started here in NorCal...

Thanks again.

Ed


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

eschummer said:


> Thank you both very much, this was precisely what I was thinking, but I was hoping to leave the fork in place. Not sure how to get the fork off without removing the spacer rings and I can't get them off with the expander stuck and creating a slight bulge in the tube.
> 
> Funny you should mention your intention of cutting the tube, roadworthy, that was exactly my intent in doing this in the first place. In my case the sleeve and lower expander are stuck high enough in the tube, that cutting wouldn't be possible without removing at least the sleeve first.
> 
> ...


Ed,
Personally, I would suggest removing the fork. Use it as an opportunity to regrease the headset bearings...what I will do this winter...I have had the fork off recently of course to shorten the steerer...see below. 
-remove the expansion bolt
-remove the top cap if it will come off..it should
- pull the stem off the steerer

Now...any slight bulge in the carbon steerer due to stuck lower expansion plug should easily be overcome with a bit of tug on the spacers once the stem is removed. The spacers maybe a bit tight but should come up with your fingers. The carbon tube does not bulge that much due to the ramp of the expansion plug pushing on the ID of the steerer tube.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

*I did it!*

Well I finally didi it. In my case I could not get the spacers off the top of the steerer tube, no matter how hard I pulled, so I had to tackle the expansion plug first. As you suggested, I took a long hollow socket (14 mm fit perfectly) and gave it a few good whacks against the bottom expansion plug. Finally it gave way and the socket and bottom plug ended up at the bottom of the steerer tube. Once I turned the whole thing upside down, the socket came out easily, not so the expander itself, nor the bottom plug. 

Finally I was able to remove both and now everything is back together the way it should be - everything cleaned, bearing faces re-greased, etc. And the spacers and stem slide on and off smoothly...

Thanks for all your encouragement and good suggestions!


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Great news Ed! 
Figured the plug and socket would shoot to the bottom and why I suggested removing the fork and inverting it. Surprising really you couldn't get the spacers off the steerer. 
Glad you got it resolved.

Quick question...did you rap the long socket with the bike in normal position with front and rear wheels installed? Wonder if you removed the front wheel and wacked the socket with the fork on the ground to impart a bit more force to the lower expander plug?
Congrats.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

Well I did remove the front wheel. First I thought, I'd do it with the fork resting on the ground (my workshop has an epoxy covered concrete floor), but then I thought better of it and supported the dropouts on a piece of 2x4 lumber. Even though I was not hitting the fork or steerer directly, I thought it might be better to protect the dropouts. As it turned out this was just enough support to have the desired result. It took just a couple of good whacks with a smallish hammer to get it dislodged.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Cool...makes sense. I think using a block of wood under the fork is best if not removing the fork.
Last question...who did you get the slotted sleeve out? Did you invert the bike with the fork still attached?..or remove the fork? Did you use anything to pull out the slotted sleeve? My thought is...if the slotted sleeve is still a bit tight inside the steerer tube after the lower plug is knocked down...maybe use a piece of coat hanger with a very slight hook at the end. How did you remove the slotted sleeve?
Thanks


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

Thought through like the true engineer you are! Yes, I had to pull on both the slotted sleeve and the bottom expander plug to get them out. I used a piece of piano wire with a hook bent at the end to get them both out. This was from a piece of left over push rod from my RC days, and worked perfectly. The sleeve came out relatively easily. For the expander plug I had to use a little more leverage by grabbing the wire with a pair of pliers and levering the pliers against the opposite side of the steerer top (with a piece of vinyl underneath). All told it probably took no more than 5 minutes, but a couple of days and this forum to work up the courage to try it!


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Well done Ed and thanks for the further explanation. No surprise once the lower tapered plug is knocked down...the slotted sleeve could be extracted without too much trouble. What is perhaps slightly surprising is...once the slotted sleeve is removed...that the bottom tapered plug wouldn't just fall out. Surprised you had to hook and pry it out. The reason why I say that is because of my understanding or lack thereof...of the bottom tapered plug. I would have thought that the OD of the plug would be less than the ID of the carbon steerer tube...as the taper basically presses into the ID of the slotted sleeve. Only thing I can think is...the bottom of the carbon steerer tube must taper a bit toward the bottom as it joins to the fork crown. Perhaps that is why the lower plug was stuck in the bottom of the steerer once it was knocked loose and down. 
What do you think?
Thanks again Ed.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

You are quite correct about the OD of the plug. Only thing is, the bottom of the steerer tube is not clean, and there are a few pieces of carbon weave sticking out that the plug got fouled up in. My guess is that it is at the transition area from the steerer tube to the fork where multiple layers of carbon (and maybe different composition as well) need to overlap somehow. If you still have your top cap off, shine a flashlight down there and see what yours looks like. 

My next hurdle will be actually cutting the tube. I've now put it all back together with enough spacers above the stem to make it work, but it looks - well, a little goofy. So cutting, or waiting for my flexibility to improve further so I can get it down all the way (I still have a 5mm spacer above the taper)?

What do you think?

Many thanks,

Ed


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

eschummer said:


> You are quite correct about the OD of the plug. Only thing is, *the bottom of the steerer tube is not clean, and there are a few pieces of carbon weave sticking out that the plug got fouled up in.* My guess is that it is at the transition area from the steerer tube to the fork where multiple layers of carbon (and maybe different composition as well) need to overlap somehow. If you still have your top cap off, shine a flashlight down there and see what yours looks like.
> 
> My next hurdle will be actually cutting the tube. I've now put it all back together with enough spacers above the stem to make it work, but it looks - well, a little goofy. So cutting, or waiting for my flexibility to improve further so I can get it down all the way (I still have a 5mm spacer above the taper)?
> 
> ...


In bold above...makes perfect sense and now I understand how the plug if it falls all the way down...it may get stuck down there. What I will do is make a point to dislodge the stuck bottom plug on my bike by removing the fork...my spacers aren't stuck...and inverting the stem and using a 14mm deep socket as you did. Hopefully breaking the lower plug free with the fork upside down will not drive the plug into the carbon weave pieces at the base of the steerer.

As to steerer length, I will digress a bit. I am not a big propenent of adaptation on a bike. Your body will morph within a given spectrum. Every spring you will be back to square one. Instead leave your steerer long enough to accomodate worse case. Further there is always resale of the bike. Most including me won't buy a bike with a slammed steerer. So there are compelling reasons to leave the steerer production length. So what is production length? I would say 40mm stack under the stem max with the top of steerer sub flush by about 1/8" of the top of the stem clamp.
You could go for a nominal spacer stack of 30mm under the stem, but I wouldn't go shorter then this.

Ok..on to cutting the steerer...I have performed this a number of times on forks with carbon steerers. Don't be plussed by this and a good skill to develop.
Some tips:
- buy soft rubber chucks for your workbench vice.
- find a very fine and preferably dull hacksaw blade.
- Two layers of blue painters tape at the edge of where you want to cut.
- a strong work light to see.
- wear a painter's mask...carbon dust is VERY bad for the lungs.
- Take the hacksaw blade to the edge of the tape which should be thick enough to create a fence as a guide for cutting. Do NOT cut through. You can't gauge how square your cut is. Instead cut about 3/8" with the saw and then rotate the steerer in the soft chucks to a new uncut top position. Lightly score the carbon steerer all the way around before you make any attempt to break through.
- Apply very light pressure as you break through the steerer. 
- Once you have finished your cut...now take a piece of 600 sandpaper and attach it to 2 face tape to a very flat piece of wood as a sanding block. Finish sand the steerer end to a fine finish as square as possible. 

That is how I do it and the steerer ends up looking factory. Normally when I build a bike, I cut the steerer twice...generally in the winter when I tear down the bike for maintenance. I do it twice because I don't want to make the mistake of cutting it too short for the intial bike build. If you stick with the factory length...you will be good...you can measure Spesh bikes at the bike shop...most come I believe with a 30mm stack under the stem + the dust cover.
Hope that helps.


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## eschummer (Jul 29, 2011)

Sounds good! I guess I'll leave it alone for now. Send a picture of yours when you're done!

Thanks,

Ed


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

eschummer said:


> Sounds good! I guess I'll leave it alone for now. Send a picture of yours when you're done!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ed


Ed,
If you bought the bike from Specialized as a complete bike and not a frameset, I wouldn't touch it. Leave it stock...gives you more adjustability and will improve your resale. I bought my Roubaix SL3 Pro as a frameset which comes with uncut steerer. That is why I cut my steerer twice...first deliberately long and second time about the length the Roubaix complete bike is sold from the factory.
If you ride a Roubaix and need a lower position, you can always install a -17deg stem.
Me personally, I run with positive rise on my Roubaix...I am long legged and thank you Specialized for making such a great bike with geometry that works best for my body type. I have run out of superlatives for the bike. If the SL4 Roubaix is better, I sure don't know how.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Thought I would add some closure to this thread since my expansion plug was stuck in my steerer as well after I shortened my carbon steerer tube this summer and I have been running without the top cap since I removed it with a bearing puller.

I wanted to relocate the expansion sleeve assembly such that the top cap was flush but it wouldn't budge. I am not a proponent of banging on the expansion bolt threaded into the lower expansion plug because the bolt is made of aluminum and believe it will spoil or at least degrade the thread. This is why I proposed the long socket approach that you now see below in the collage of pictures.
Also Ed since you asked about cutting the steerer which is what started this for me.
(note to others: there really isn't any reason to remove/relocate the expansion sleeve assembly that I can determine other than shortening the steerer.) Ed, it is possible to get a better than factory finish to the end of the steerer after cutting if you take the time to polish the edge with care.  You can take this to any extreme you want. The edge below you see is with 600# wet paper on a sanding block....doesn't take much time at all. 

What I did and recommend to others is remove the fork from the bike. 
This accomplishes two things:
1. a good time to clean and regrease the bearings...bottom bearing in particular picks up a fair amount of dirt from the road.
2. Very easy to remove a stuck bottom expansion plug. Insert the 14mm long socket...I taped mine as shown to reduce acceleration of the socket after the plug breaks free. A gentle rap to a hard surface...I used the back of a vice...and the plug was free. It came free with surprising little force...very safe and non invasive. The sleeve and expansion bolt fell right out. If you invert the fork, no need to fish the lower plug out that could get stuck in the tangled web of loose carbon weeve at the bottom of the steerer.

Anyway...with expansion plug reassembled correctly, steerer now sized how I like it, bearings are clean and regreased..back in business. 

A final note is...Specialized apparently leaves the inside of the steerer fork tube quite 
'ratty'. They don't perform a clean-up, post mold ream of the tube to remove misc. carbon weave which is quite abundant in the bottom of the steerer and prevalent for a fair amount of the lower steerer tube. This of course presents no aesthetic issue since you can't see it with the expansion plug assembly in place and if anything, may contribute fractional strength to the tube and even marginal damping...but looks kind of funny if peering down the inside of the steerer.

Hope this helps others if they shorten their steerer and need to dislodge the stubborn explansion plug assembly which you will need to relocate.


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