# Finally the rim I've been waiting to talk about. Pacenti SL23



## ergott

Pacenti Debuts Wide, Shallow Aero Road Tubeless Rims - Bike Rumor

I have about a thousand miles on my prototype Pacenti rim and I'm very pleased. The rim has the tubeless friendly internal shape like other recent rims. I have been using Michelin 23mm and 25mm tires with tubes so I can't comment on tubeless yet, but I might try at some point.

With my 23mm Michelin tires, the sidewall is flush with the brake track. I think that this will prove to be a good aero combination. The spoke side of the rim is rounded and should be a benefit to that as well.

The rim is welded and machined so braking performance is as excellent, no tick at the joint. My copy is 452g so it's competitive with it's class. I'd rather not have it much lighter as stiffness and durability will suffer.


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## boneman

Thanks for posting. Looks good for my next build in a few months time. Any idea on pricing? Also, are they center drilled?

Pacenti Debuts Wide, Shallow Aero Road Tubeless Rims - Bike Rumor


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## Zen Cyclery

Looks like a nice design. Impressively low weight for the width/depth.


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## jmorgan

I have been waiting for these to build some wheels around. Thinking 20/24 with Chris King and CXRAY.


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## ukbloke

This rim sounds very interesting. What does tubeless friendly actually mean? Does it require a Stans conversion? Do the tire beads latch up onto the rim like on a Shimano road tubeless rim? Thanks!


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## ergott

The rim has an elevated bead like other tubeless ready rims. I use Stan's yellow tape (two layers for tubeless) and a valve stem. Tubeless friendly means you can run a tubeless system, but there is a maximum recommended pressure of 100psi.


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## dcgriz

ergott said:


> Tubeless friendly means you can run a tubeless system, but there is a maximum recommended pressure of 100psi.


Do you run lower pressure for the same tire size tubeless vs. tubed?


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## ergott

I always recommed a 5-10psi drop with the same size tire going tubeless. Most riders will benefit most at 80-90psi front and 85-95psi rear.


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## dcgriz

ergott said:


> I always recommed a 5-10psi drop with the same size tire going tubeless. Most riders will benefit most at 80-90psi front and 85-95psi rear.


Got you! Thanks. I haven't tried the tubeless yet, mainly due to lack of choices at the tire end.


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## dcgriz

Eric, 

One more thing... what tension did you end up with on the DS?


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## ergott

I build them to about 125kgf. I don't like working with any rim that can't take that tension. It gives the non drive side tension a fighting chance.


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## dcgriz

I totally understand. My threshold is slightly higher at 130 kgf.


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## lbkwak

Hello Eric,

How stiff is the rim compare to 340's and A23's?

Linus

P.S. Nice Spooky. :thumbsup:


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## ergott

I would have to use some sort of a jig to test that. I haven't them all side by side either.


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## rivren5

*Is the rim finish black anodized?*

Hard to tell from the pic - what is the finish like on the SL23? Like an H-plus/Hed type anodized or more like the smooth Kinlin?

Looks like a great rim.


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## ergott

I got my rims! Here's my latest update.

ergottWheels. Quality is my highest priority.: They are here! (Pacenti SL23 rims)

The rims have a typical, shiny black anodized finish.


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## nhluhr

Very interesting rim - I have been looking around for a deeper profile wide rim that has a welded seam. But are these TOO LIGHT?


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## dcgriz

nhluhr said:


> Very interesting rim - I have been looking around for a deeper profile wide rim that has a welded seam. But are these TOO LIGHT?


Although I dont have any personal experience with the SL23 yet, it does not seem they are too light. Ergott is building them at 125kgf


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## mikerp

ergott said:


> I got my rims! Here's my latest update.
> 
> ergottWheels. Quality is my highest priority.: They are here! (Pacenti SL23 rims)
> The rims have a typical, shiny black anodized finish.



Great info, I'm looking at building up a set with CK R45 for my son's new ride (just picked up a Lynskey R330 for him, Lynskey had a great sale).


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## tidi

Hi ergott
Is it possible to build these rims on rs80 hubs?
Regards


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## dcgriz

Can you comment on the SL23 rim stiffness compared to a HED C2 rim? Is the Pacenti as stiff? The HED has a lower profile and width but practically the same weight (458 vs. 452 grams). I'm wondering to what degree the balance between the increase in height/width while keeping the same weight (thinner gauge in parts of rim?) could affect the rim stiffness.


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## ergott

The rim was stiff building it up and out on the road I think it's comparable as well. I think the differences in weight and dimensions are real small.

I would like to do a side by side comparison to be more accurate.


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## dcgriz

ergott said:


> The rim was stiff building it up and out on the road I think it's comparable as well. I think the differences in weight and dimensions are real small.
> 
> I would like to do a side by side comparison to be more accurate.


Thanks. I know that because of your riding style you look at this the same way I do and value your opinion on this.


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## skinewmexico

So where would the price start for a build, with reasonable hubs?


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## ergott

MSRP on the rims is $98 so you can factor in the cost of the rest of the components depending on whether you build them yourself or you buy the wheels from someone.


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## rruff

dcgriz said:


> Can you comment on the SL23 rim stiffness compared to a HED C2 rim? Is the Pacenti as stiff?


The fact that the Pacenti is wider by ~1mm and deeper by ~2mm should make it stiffer. Geometry trumps mass. Either will be quite a bit stiffer than the A23 or 340 that someone asked about earlier.


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## dcgriz

rruff said:


> The fact that the Pacenti is wider by ~1mm and deeper by ~2mm should make it stiffer. Geometry trumps mass..


It would be a no brainer if its weight had been proportionally increased. The SL23 adds a bit of surface area while the weight is kept the same (roughly a total of 5mm x circumference) which means the material is thinner and thus potentially more flexible since the overall shape remains the same (assuming same composition alloy). Whether or not this difference is meaningful enough to make a difference in the application each one of us has for these rims is the real question. It seems the rim has been designed with optimization between weight and stiffness in mind; the optimization maybe benchmarked around the racing weight and expected output of a racer. 
It would have been ideal if the N/mm rigidity of the rim was available so each would derive their own conclusions for their application but absent of such information, the "feel" comparison to a rim of known results like the HED is the next best thing I know of, although not overly accurate.


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## carlislegeorge

dcgriz said:


> ...It would have been ideal if the N/mm rigidity of the rim was available so each would derive their own conclusions for their application....


Interesting concept. I'm no engineer (not even close) but I guess knowing what this value is (in conjunction with the rim weight) I would still have to break the rim before knowing if it that number worked for me? Just asking.


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## dcgriz

carlislegeorge said:


> Interesting concept. I'm no engineer (not even close) but I guess knowing what this value is (in conjunction with the rim weight) I would still have to break the rim before knowing if it that number worked for me? Just asking.


Its not really a matter of breaking the rim but rather the rim frequently rubbing against the brake pads when the applied lateral load from heavy riders or riders that tend to rock the bike when off the saddle exceeds the rigidity of the wheel. I meet both of these criteria so I like building a relatively stiff wheel at the expense of more weight and therefore some loss of inertia. Higher values in wheel (edited) rigidity, around the 50 N/mm mark for my case, is one of the aspects of building such a wheel for my applications.


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## ergott

How are you measuring 50N/mm?

Wait until the Alchemy UL comes out. Jeremy was downright giddy on the phone when he talked about how stiff it will make a rear wheel. Never heard him so excited.


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## dcgriz

@ergott

By talking to people that understand what I'm talking about and by comparison to the data available for various wheels from outfits such as RouesArtisanales before the built and then with a fishing scale and a ruler after the built. That's why I was asking you your thoughts on the HED C2 vs. SL23 as I've noticed from your previous posts that you have the same riding style as I do.

I will wait for the Alchemy to come out. Thanks


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## LONDON-GUY

Will these hoops be avalable in the UK ? and what weight would a set of these laced 24/28 dt comp spokes with WI T11 hubs end up being ?

Thanks


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## mikerp

ergott said:


> With my 23mm Michelin tires, the sidewall is flush with the brake track. I think that this will prove to be a good aero combination. The spoke side of the rim is rounded and should be


Eric, what's the secret to mounting Michelin's on these rims?
The rims built up nicely (CK R45's Campy - 24/28 x2 and x3), when we got to mounting the folding Michelin Pro4 SC's, I let my son know that tubulars had never given me this much grief. It took a 30 year old set of alloy tire irons to get them on. One of them came off much easier and went back on (son got a lesson in patching tubes). Any pointers in mounting clinchers?

BTW this really nailed it for me, the only carbon rims I'll be using will be tubies. I'll post a pic of the rims this week.


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## ergott

What are you using for base tape? I use the Stan's which is very thin. It was a little tight, but I got the tires on without too much work.


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## ergott

dcgriz said:


> @ergott
> 
> By talking to people that understand what I'm talking about and by comparison to the data available for various wheels from outfits such as RouesArtisanales before the built and then with a fishing scale and a ruler after the built. That's why I was asking you your thoughts on the HED C2 vs. SL23 as I've noticed from your previous posts that you have the same riding style as I do.
> 
> I will wait for the Alchemy to come out. Thanks


With that measurement you are measuring the whole wheel, not just the rim. If you want to know how the stiffness of this rims compares to the Hed or Archetype you know you have to test identical builds. I would like to set up a test rig that would compare to the RA testing method at some point though.


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## mikerp

ergott said:


> What are you using for base tape? I use the Stan's which is very thin. It was a little tight, but I got the tires on without too much work.


We used some Zefal (not thin), I did a search and found some recommendations for (setting the tires in the sun or toss them in the dryer - rubbing alcohol/windex/soap - mount on a different rim first and stretch out the tire) will give these a try in the future, as mentioned they came off easy enough and went back on with less effort.


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## Jay Strongbow

mikerp said:


> We used some Zefal (not thin), I did a search and found some recommendations for (setting the tires in the sun or toss them in the dryer - rubbing alcohol/windex/soap - *mount on a different rim first and stretch out the tire)* will give these a try in the future, as mentioned they came off easy enough and went back on with less effort.


What I bolded generally does the trick. When on the different rim jack up the PSI close to the tires max recommended and leave overnight.


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## mikerp

Jay Strongbow said:


> What I bolded generally does the trick. When on the different rim jack up the PSI close to the tires max recommended and leave overnight.


Thanks - any rim in particular that works real well for this trick?


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## Jay Strongbow

mikerp said:


> Thanks - any rim in particular that works real well for this trick?


If you are choosing between rims to do this with use the one that's hardest to get the tire on. I don't know for a fact that would be any better, but logically it would seem that would be better than one where the tire slides on with little effort.


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## rruff

mikerp said:


> Eric, what's the secret to mounting Michelin's on these rims?


Not Eric, but you need to make sure the bead is in the center channel, then pull (stretch) both sides of the tire that are already installed down towards the section of bead you don't have on yet... hope that makes sense.


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## rruff

dcgriz said:


> the rim frequently rubbing against the brake pads when the applied lateral load from heavy riders or riders that tend to rock the bike when off the saddle exceeds the rigidity of the wheel.


When you laterally load a rim at one spot, it flexes in the *same* direction on the other side of the wheel. In other words, rim flex is more likely to *prevent* brake rub than cause it, because it will move in the opposite direction of the frame flex. 

Mavic did a test a few years back where they two special wheels... one was twice as laterally stiff as a K, and the other was half as stiff... and they had test riders use all 3 and report which was stiffest. Oddly, most riders couldn't tell. 

Apparently a couple mm of lateral flex isn't that noticeable. I think riders are more likely to notice if NDS spokes go slack, since this results in a sudden drop in stiffness, and the rim can warp a lot. If you can prevent that, then you aren't likely to have stiffness issues.


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## GRAVELBIKE

My Ergott-built SL23s arrived last week. Weather has prevented me from riding them (yet), but mounting tires (25mm Vredestein and 28mm Schwalbe) was pretty easy.


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## mikerp

rruff said:


> Not Eric, but you need to make sure the bead is in the center channel, then pull (stretch) both sides of the tire that are already installed down towards the section of bead you don't have on yet... hope that makes sense.


Makes perfect sense, something to watch for in the future. Hopefully I haven't derailed this thread. The SL23 looks to be a great rim.


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## jnbrown

My rear wheel is having issues and I need to rebuild it. I am currently using an Aerohead OC and it has been working fine but since i need to rebuild I thought I would try this Pacenti rim. Any reason reason not do that other than a slight maybe 40g weight gain?


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## dcgriz

rruff said:


> When you laterally load a rim at one spot, it flexes in the *same* direction on the other side of the wheel. In other words, rim flex is more likely to *prevent* brake rub than cause it, because it will move in the opposite direction of the frame flex.
> 
> Mavic did a test a few years back where they two special wheels... one was twice as laterally stiff as a K, and the other was half as stiff... and they had test riders use all 3 and report which was stiffest. Oddly, most riders couldn't tell.
> 
> Apparently a couple mm of lateral flex isn't that noticeable. I think riders are more likely to notice if NDS spokes go slack, since this results in a sudden drop in stiffness, and the rim can warp a lot. If you can prevent that, then you aren't likely to have stiffness issues.


Mercat did a series of tests (about 300) for Mavic regarding the effects of lateral stiffness and although the results were inconclusive when riders of moderate output were used, they showed a definite reduction in power (about 15%) when high power output riders were paired with flexy wheels at 20N/mm.
Roues Artisanales showed in their 2008 lateral stiffness tests that the lateral stiffness graphs linearly between the applied load and deflection axis until a specific loading is achieved and then anything past this results in a laterally displaced curve. Link:https://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-23159755.html. They showed that the rim movement at the opposite of the spot where the rim is loaded is important because a high deflection of the rim between the pads will result in the rim rubbing against the pads. They concluded that the rim movement is pronounced when a high output sprinter applies high torque or a heavy rider exceeds the loading threshold of the wheel because of his weight. They also showed that most of the time the NDS spokes will loose their tension and compromise the wheel, as you pointed out.
My field observations are in line with the above. I can make a "flexy" wheel like the Roval Fussee SL rub against the pads voluntarily or involuntarily. A hand built wheel with deeper rims, proper hub offset and more spokes, not so.


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## dcgriz

ergott said:


> With that measurement you are measuring the whole wheel, not just the rim. If you want to know how the stiffness of this rims compares to the Hed or Archetype you know you have to test identical builds. I would like to set up a test rig that would compare to the RA testing method at some point though.


I know but I don't have any better way under my control. I figured if you compare the Pacenti favorably or equally favorable to the HED and you are ok with the 24h prototype you have been testing, I should be ok as well with my 32h built.
I was also hoping that you may have had results from similarly built wheels with either rim.


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## rruff

dcgriz said:


> They showed that the rim movement at the opposite of the spot where the rim is loaded is important because a high deflection of the rim between the pads will result in the rim rubbing against the pads.


The rim definitely moves in the opposite direction of other flexing members. This generally won't be a problem unless you have your pads adjusted too close. 











Wheel Stiffness Test


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## dcgriz

rruff said:


> . This generally won't be a problem unless you have your pads adjusted too close.


I'd like to be at around 1.5 mm but no more than 2mm.


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## rruff

IMO if you can lock up the wheels just before the lever hits the bar, then they are good.


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## dcgriz

rruff said:


> IMO if you can lock up the wheels just before the lever hits the bar, then they are good.


Too much travel for my taste but, I guess, its a personal thing


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## darwinosx

Got my 32 spoke on order and should have them within days...I'm a big guy so want 32 hole, just need to decide on hubs and a wheel builder here in southern California.


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## VinPaysDoc

*Dumb question - Key Spoke determination?*

OK, guys, help me out here. With my limited experience I've not run in to this.

The Pacenti Rim has no obvious offset of the spoke holes that I can determine (yes, Mike, I've done the halo). The holes on the tube side of the rim are offset. This issue is not addressed by Brandt.

Brandt's diagram has the rim on the lap with the valve stem hole away from you (12 O'Clock). The rim is situated in such a way that the hole to the left of the valve stem hole is offset upward and is where the key spoke goes.

Which offset on the tube side (up or down) would you use to correlate to an offset upward (that does not appear to be there) on the hub side that I would normally look to place the key spoke?

Thanks,
G


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## nhluhr

VinPaysDoc said:


> OK, guys, help me out here. With my limited experience I've not run in to this.
> 
> The Pacenti Rim has no obvious offset of the spoke holes that I can determine (yes, Mike, I've done the halo). The holes on the tube side of the rim are offset. This issue is not addressed by Brandt.
> 
> Brandt's diagram has the rim on the lap with the valve stem hole away from you (12 O'Clock). The rim is situated in such a way that the hole to the left of the valve stem hole is offset upward and is where the key spoke goes.
> 
> Which offset on the tube side (up or down) would you use to correlate to an offset upward (that does not appear to be there) on the hub side that I would normally look to place the key spoke?
> 
> Thanks,
> G


You're trying to think too hard when the answer is staring you in the face. Here, I made you a diagram:


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## VinPaysDoc

That was the logical conclusion, I just wanted to be sure since I hadn't come across this. Thanks.


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## GRAVELBIKE

My review of the SL23 rims:

First Impressions: Pacenti SL23 Rims | GRAVELBIKE.com


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## darwinosx

I've been riding these rims for a few weeks. They replaced Velocity Deep V's which were OK rims but not amazing quality and the seam is too pronounced. I'm a big guy, 6'3' and 275 lbs. I bought 32 spoke rims from Fairwheel bikes and had them built with Ultegra hubs at Bike Religion here in Dana Point, Ca. I considered using some super cool high end hubs but just didn't feel the need. I'm using 700 X 25 Conti Gator Hardshells.
I always ride at least 25's and sometime 28's. I was interested in wider rims that would allow the tire to spread out a little and maybe use a lower psi. I was also wanting a rim with better build and quality control.
What I have found is that I am able to lower my psi from 110 to 100 without worrying about pinch flats and the wheels feels noticeably more stable in turns especially lower speed turns. I'm pretty happy with my wheels now and am getting another set built for my Moots.


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## mikerp

GRAVELBIKE said:


> My review of the SL23 rims:
> 
> First Impressions: Pacenti SL23 Rims | GRAVELBIKE.com


Nice review, you also happen to be what I'll term an "ideal client" in that you are willing to have the professional lead you to the end goal.


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## GRAVELBIKE

mikerp said:


> Nice review, you also happen to be what I'll term an "ideal client" in that you are willing to have the professional lead you to the end goal.


Thanks. I'm really glad I had Eric @ Ergott determine spoke count, lacing, etc. The end result really exceeded my expectations.


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## darwinosx

Your article says first impressions, are you going to write more about what it is like to ride these rims?


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## GRAVELBIKE

darwinosx said:


> Your article says first impressions, are you going to write more about what it is like to ride these rims?


 Yes. I usually follow-up with a one-year review.


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## Kirk Pacenti

A SL23 review from an a friend and former industry insider:

"I got the wheels built up and have had an opportunity to ride them now three times (65miler, 94 miler, & a 45 miler). I thought I'd give you an overview of my build and my riding impressions. I'm 49 years old, a fit/muscular 195lbs and a former track racer with a good sprint. I've had the opportunity to ride/test/develop lots of wheels over the years and have come back to the conclusion that handbuilt wheels suit my needs better than all but the highest end pre-builts.

The initial impression of the rim quality is very high. I think the anodization is the equal of the best I've seen. I noticed no burrs or milling scraps indication great attention in the QC at the manufacturing level. Weighed on my gram scale both rims were exactly
440 grams. The wear indicators are a nice touch.

Components used were are Campagnolo Record Hubs (newest version) 32 hole, Sapim HW rim washers, brass hub washers, Sapim Laser spokes & Alloy nipples for all but drive side where I used std. DB spokes with brass nipples. Wheesmith spokeprep for spoke threads and Dupont Teflon grease (now called Finish Line Extreme Fluoro) for lubricating the rim/ washer/nipple interface.

Usually on non-eyeleted rims I debur the rim holes with a dremel grindstone, but this time I decided to build with the sapim HW washer.
It is a time consuming choice but in the end I believe it did allow me to reach the maximum tension of the rim with alloy nipples and the windup prone Laser spokes. If had built without the washers I probably would have deburred/countersunk the interface out of habit , but these were as clean as any I've ever seen.

The wheels built up beautifully indicating to me that the rims were flat and concentric. Final tension is in the 135kgf range for the front wheel and 145kgf for the rear drive side. Actual weight came to 1605g (725 front/880 rear).

I have ridden wider rims before but not with the current trend of combing them with 25C tires and lower pressure. I'm sold! This is the missing piece of the puzzle for me. I installed a nos pair of Michelin Pro's (circa '05) 25C and ran them at 85psi. My bike never felt faster or more comfortable. The riding has been fast group pacelines and hard climbing.

The wheelset these replaced were built with 32h Velocity Fusion rims. Those rims have been entirely functional but needed lots of deburring and the brake track has always been a problem. I feel like the SL23's are a huge improvement.

I should add that I hadn't encountered a rim that was center drilled before. I don't know the pro's/cons of this, just thought I'd mention it as it did cause me to scratch my head for a minute. Being a Campagnolo rider I would love to see an off center drilling option for the rear wheel. I'd build up a light weight event set in a heartbeat (with King or DT hubs) if those were available.

Yesterday I had the opportunity to drop by Co-Motion and show the wheels to Dwan. Brian, Zach, and Bob had already seen them since we've been training for the Oregon Gran Fondo together. Now that Dwan's back from Taiwan he'll back in the fold with the gran fondo team.

Thanks again for helping me out on these - it's much appreciated.

Great product and one I will give my highest recommendation."

Cheers,

Alan Cline


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## darwinosx

Still loving these rims. Best I have owned in 35 plus years of cycling. Going to try tubeless when my Conti hard shells wear out.


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## eqtrian

I built up a set of Pacenti SL23 with 2 wraps of Stan's yellow tape and mounted up a tight new pair of Conti GP4000s tires. The tension drop was dramatic (20%) on both the front and back wheels after inflating the new tires. The rear wheel dish change was also substantial. Wheel trueness was not affected.

I have seen this issue with Stan's rims, and based on previous research I believe that it is due to a bead seat diameter that is larger than ISO standard (622mm). The larger BSD gives a tight fit between the tire bead and the rim bed which allows it setup tubeless well. It would be interesting if someone could measure the BSD on a SL23 rim.

I added tension back into both wheels with the tires mounted (and corrected the rear wheel dish) which is the general prescription for Stan's rims also. Unfortunately I have read before that different brands & types of tires will fit tighter or looser on the rim, so I will have to keep an eye on these wheels in the future when I swap tires.

Has anyone else noticed and/or measured tension change with the tires they mounted on their SL23 rims?


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## bobonker

Kirk Pacenti said:


> The wheels built up beautifully indicating to me that the rims were flat and concentric. Final tension is in the 135kgf range for the front wheel and 145kgf for the rear drive side. Actual weight came to 1605g (725 front/880 rear).


Wow...that's a lot of tension. Good to know that the rim can take it, but I'm assuming that you would not want to try this without the use of nipple washers to help spread the load out around the nipple hole?

Mine are tensioned at ~110 kgf front, ~125 kgf rear DS, and ~60 kgf rear NDS. Front is 24h laced radial and rear is 28h laced 2x on both sides. 

Overall, I like the rim a lot. Ride quality is excellent and it feels plenty stiff. My build with BHS hubs and Sapim Lasers (front, rear NDS), Sapim Race (rear DS), and hex-head DT Swiss brass nipples came in at 1483g. These will be my goto climbing wheel for hills whose descents would likely cook my carbon clinchers and I think they'll be great with a 25c tire for logging base miles.

Thanks,
Bob


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## masont

Kirk (or anyone else helpful) - 

Do any wholesale distributors sell these - or do you sell directly to shops? Seems like a neat rim, and I'd like to have it as an option for customers at my shop.


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## rruff

Fairwheel distributes them.


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## ergott

I can concur that tension will drop, but I didn't measure it. Half a turn on the drive side got me back to good tension when a tire was mounted and aired up. I typically use about 135kgf for the right, rear now so there is room for the tension to drop a bit and still be sufficient. After all no one rides a wheel without tires on, right? ;-)


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## jmorgan

Had to add 1/2 turn to the DS and 1/4 turn to the NDS to bring everything up to tension after inflating the tires. NDS lost about 30kgf (according to my park tool) with my tires pumped up to 100psi.


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## eqtrian

jmorgan said:


> Had to add 1/2 turn to the DS and 1/4 turn to the NDS to bring everything up to tension after inflating the tires. NDS lost about 30kgf (according to my park tool) with my tires pumped up to 100psi.


Out of curiousity, which tires did you put on there?


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## jmorgan

eqtrian said:


> Out of curiousity, which tires did you put on there?


I'm running Michelin Pro 4 Service Course 23mm


The front wheel took about 3/4 turn to get back up at 100 psi


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## Enoch562

Is retensioning after tire installation a good idea? Stans does not recommend it. Different air pressures can cause different readings also. It was my understanding that manufactures were giving max KGF numbers on there rims bare naked. I understand as long as the tire is inflated you are with in max tension, but when/if you deflate the tire it is going to go above the recommendations.


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## jmorgan

Inflate them to what you will ride them at and then retension to the proper tension. You need to do something though considering I saw 25% decrease in tension after adding the tire and pumping it up.


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## SystemShock

Enoch562 said:


> Is retesioning after tire installation a good idea? Stans does not recommend it.
> 
> Different air pressures can cause different readings also. It was my understanding that manufactures were giving max KGF numbers on there rims bare naked. I understand as long as the tire is inflated you are within max tension, but when/if you deflate the tire it is going to go above the recommendations.


It's sort of understandable why Stans wouldn't recommend it, but a bit ironic too considering that their rims are pretty infamous for losing a lot of tension when the tires get inflated.


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## GRAVELBIKE

Posted a quick update on my Ergott-built SL23 wheels here:

Updates & Follow-Ups | GRAVELBIKE.com


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## dcgriz

ergott said:


> I can concur that tension will drop, but I didn't measure it. Half a turn on the drive side got me back to good tension when a tire was mounted and aired up. I typically use about 135kgf for the right, rear now so there is room for the tension to drop a bit and still be sufficient. After all no one rides a wheel without tires on, right? ;-)


I typically see a tension drop around 5 but never more than 10 kgf with the tire on and the original tension at 130 kgf on my mainstay builds with rims ranging from 460 grams to 550 grams and 14/15 butted spokes. Never, ever I have experienced tension reductions to the order of 20-25% of the original tension. Such reduction would have me seriously concerned.
Do you think is because of spoke choice and not enough tension to start with?


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## jmorgan

I am running cx-rays, and tension before adding the tire was measured with the same park tool. Everything was stressed well, little truing was needed after taking up the slack from the added tire and psi.


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## SystemShock

dcgriz said:


> I typically see a tension drop around 5 but never more than 10 kgf with the tire on and the original tension at 130 kgf on my mainstay builds with rims ranging from 460 grams to 550 grams and 14/15 butted spokes. Never, ever I have experienced tension reductions to the order of 20-25% of the original tension. Such reduction would have me seriously concerned.
> 
> Do you think is because of spoke choice and not enough tension to start with?


Adding to this for a moment... the rims that seem to lose significant tension with tires inflated on them seem to be of the 'tubeless-ready' variety.

Is it possible that such rims are normally made just a tiny increment oversized in diameter in order to more securely hold tubeless tires on... and that such rims then get 'crushed down' a very small amount by an inflated high-pressure tire, causing the spokes to slacken some? :confused5:

Could be wrong, just wondering. Even if true, it would seem to be an effect a wheelbuilder could compensate for, i.e. not a show-stopper.


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