# 32 hole hub -- carbon tubular/ lacing options?



## welcomdmat (Jan 1, 1970)

I have a 32 hole powertap hub that I am looking to build into a carbon tubular (I have another PT hub in an Open Pro for training). I know I have the Zipp options and could use a pretty thin gauge spoke (1.8-1.5 or the like). Are there other options? Are there alternate lacing patterns with a 32 hole hub that will build a reliable wheel with fewer spokes?


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## Ligero (Oct 21, 2005)

I would just keep them as a 32h but I would lace them up 1x drive side with all of the elbows on the outside of the flange. That will add a little but of lateral stiffness that you will loose by going with very thin lightweight spokes.

<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/ligerowheels/577544451/" title="Powertap SL hub laced 1x drive side and 2x non drive side by ligero_wheelworks, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm2.static.flickr.com/1089/577544451_2eb84f91b4_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="Powertap SL hub laced 1x drive side and 2x non drive side" /></a>


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

welcomdmat said:


> Are there other options? Are there alternate lacing patterns with a 32 hole hub that will build a reliable wheel with fewer spokes?


Modified crows-foot... or even triplet could be used if the rim is center-drilled (Reynolds). Each would use a 24h rim.


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## bikeguy0 (Sep 23, 2007)

Bump. Same question. I have a 32h powertap 2.4 Open Pro and would like to build it into a more aero wheel for crit and TT racing. I want the power info during the races so this is the wheel I will race and train with. Any options for a 32h or am I screwed and need to sell my wheel and buy a 24 or 28h powertap hub?


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Same answer.


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## mellowman (Apr 17, 2004)

rruf, question about the modified crows-foot lacing. 

normal crows-foot lacing for a 32h rim&hub would be the crow foots pair ( 2 spokes crossed over a radial spoke) and a radial spoke, 4x around a side.

to go modified crows-foot for a 24h rim w/32h hub. I had initially thought it was just dropping the 4 single radial spokes and keep the crows-foot 3 spoke pairs. 

However I drew this out because I'm thinking of doing a set of record tb-25 24h front and back with the modified crows-foot and I think dropping the radial spoke from the crows-foot pair instead stresses the hub flanges less. 

Problem though is the crossed pair in the crows-foot goes from 2x to 1x as this pattern is basically radial and then 1x pair with the empty spoke hole in between the 1x pair. 

Kinda like the pattern with this later lacing but worried about flange stress because of the 1x crossing. Though again it seems to spread the forces out over more of the hub flange than when I look at the crows-foot 2x with radial and all the forces concentrated on each 3 spoke grouping.

Also am think of matching the crossing spokes on one side of the hub with the radial spoke on the other side for the rear. So at least there is a 1x crossing to take the load, though again it is 1x so that isn't say much though there is an empty spoke hole not being stress in the middle.

Any comments on which way to go with the modified crows-foot lacing?

Also, when calculating spoke lengths do I just calculate a 24h lacing and then pick the radial and 1x or 2x spoke lengths?

thanks in advance.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

IMO it would be best to do a triplet lacing on the rear (3x and 1x heads-in) and use a 18h front rim (36h hub) and lace it 2x or 1x. The Record hub has a decent flange spacing so works fairly well triplet style... plus you avoid worries about radial spokes. If 24 is enough for the back then 18 should be enough for the front. The TB25 is a pretty solid rim. 

If you really want to do a crowsfoot though... I don't think it will matter which way you do it... hub stress looks the same to me either way. The only way I have looked at it is with the radial spoke in between the crossed spokes.The radial spokes are just a radial calc, but the other ones will *not* be so simple since your rim has a different number of holes than the hub. This page will give you a method for figuring the right length:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/36-24.htm


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## mellowman (Apr 17, 2004)

rruff, I don't think 18h rim and 36 hole hub can be laced 2x or 1x, only radial as each side has an odd number of spokes (i.e. 9).

still, visually it is appealing with the triplet in back. closest one can get to Campy's factory wheels with their standard hubs.

Also, for the triplet shouldn't I apply Rinard's method as well, which winds up to be the same lacing number for both sides though the lengths will be different because of hub diameters and offsets.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

mellowman said:


> rruff, I don't think 18h rim and 36 hole hub can be laced 2x or 1x, only radial as each side has an odd number of spokes (i.e. 9).


Doh! You are right... good thing I never tried to do that. But you *could* do a crows-foot style pattern on 18h... I think. 



> Also, for the triplet shouldn't I apply Rinard's method as well, which winds up to be the same lacing number for both sides though the lengths will be different because of hub diameters and offsets.


I can send you a spreadsheet for the triplet calculation if you send me your email address.


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## lazysod (Jul 4, 2008)

Probably a little late for the original poster, but maybe of interest for others stumbling across this thread:

With a 32h hub on the rear wheel, you can use a 2:1 lacing, like Fulcrum wheels. You use a 24h rim, with 8 radial spokes on the non-drive side and 16 crossed spokes on the drive side. The combined pattern (left+right) would look like a crow's foot.

Calculating the spoke lengths can be a bit tricky, as the length is neither that of 32h or 24h crossed spokes. For 3x, the angular displacement is (5/32+1/24)*360 = 71.25 degrees, which corresponds to 19x at 192h. It's also pretty close to 72 degrees, which is used for 4x/40h and 2x/30h. For 2x, you get (3/32+1/24)*360 = 48.75 degrees, corresponding to 13x/192h, and quite close to the 48 degrees used for 2x/30h. Provided I've done the maths correctly, that is... :skep:

AFAIK, Fulcrum has patented their 2:1 lacing, so selling such a wheel could be illegal. I haven't read the patent' so I don't know the details. Maybe you could get around it with 1x lacing on the non-drive side. (Displacement [1/32+1/24]*360 = 26.25 degrees, or 7x/192h, close to 25.7 degrees used for 1x/28h.)

Edit: An example with 1x lacing NDS can be found here:
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=83250


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## slideeslide (Feb 1, 2007)

http://www.planet-x-warehouse.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_32H_244.html
Found your 32H Carbon Tubular Rim and is about $300USD right now


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## steel515 (Sep 6, 2004)

*carbon lacing options*



Ligero said:


> I would just keep them as a 32h but I would lace them up 1x drive side with all of the elbows on the outside of the flange. That will add a little but of lateral stiffness that you will loose by going with very thin lightweight spokes.
> 
> Isn't 1x not recommended?


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## mwills (Feb 9, 2006)

does anyone know what 'decimal cross' number to input into SPOCALC.xls for lacing a 24h rim to a 32h hub? i am doing this on a rear wheel with radial lacing on the NDS and 2x on the DS. 

to get the spoke lengths correct the cross will not be an integer but rather 2.*x* - just curious if anyone has been through the math to figure out *x*.

i came across sheldon brown's page where he laces a 24h rim to a 36h hub and it comes out to *2.17*.

anyone?


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## abdou (Feb 18, 2006)

you must have made them by now, but one of the nicest wheels I made was a 28h DTswiss hub, corima winium and DTswiss NORMAL (=heavier but stiffer) x3 on drive 125(max) torque side and radial on non-drive side.


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