# General Moots question.



## celt

hey guys,

I have an opportunity to purchase a Moots Compact at a LBS for a very reasonable price. Love everything about the frame, welds are second to none, breezer dropouts are killer.

The one thing that gives me the willies is the integrated seat post binder. What is the technical merit in doing that rather than a seat collar that you can replace? If that binder bolt get stripped for any reason, the frame is pretty much junk. Granted, it looks pretty beefy, and you would have to be a gorilla to wreck the threads I would guess, but why not use a separate collar and not worry about it?

I'm guessing Moots has a good reason for doing so, I'm just not sure what that is.


----------



## FTMD

I think I'm going to give you a 'don't worry about it' answer.

If it's a compact, chances are you will have lots of seatpost exposed...so plenty of clamping room for the workstand. 

But, on a standard frame, where you might be tempted to loosen/tighten the bolt in order to expose some post everytime you threw it on the stand, then maybe it's a concern. Or perhaps you transport bikes the trunk of a car and need to remove the post to make them fit. 

But, I just don't think I'd worry about it. Should you strip it out, couldn't it be retapped? 

I just sold a Vamoots, and it's beefy no doubt. I think I had the same concern you did the first few times out and the post slipped. I finally put some torque down on it and it held nicely.


----------



## Dick Rhee

Due to consistent indecision my Vamoots has had 3 seatposts, all adjusted intermittently, and always torqued down pretty tightly. I also say "don't worry about it." If on the off chance that it does strip, FTMD is right in that it can be retapped.


----------



## Mahatma Kane

The integrated seat post binder is one of the very reasons I am considering getting a Vamoots. There was a time when all quality bicycles were made this way. You only used to see separate seat collars on cheap department store bikes. Do you realize that the acceptance of the separate seat collar on a quality bike began with the mountain bike market back when there really were no high end mountain bikes?
Those early mountain bikes used cheap constuction methods and thus had a separate seat collar. This became accepted by mountain bike riders as the norm so as the higher end mountain bike market developed those bikes were made this way also, and it then gradually creeped into the high end road market. Just realize that the separate seat collar is used primarily because it is a cheaper method of construction.


----------



## LakeBluffer

I agree that the integrated seatbolt binder looks good, and I've never had any problem with the one on my Psychlo YBB, but I'm not sure you're correct about the evolution of the mountain bike style seatpost binder clamp. It wasn't only a matter of cost. The binder clamps on early mountain bikes were equipped with a quick release, so you could raise and lower your saddle while on the trail, without needing a wrench. Such designs were very practical back in the day when riders used Hite Rites. Since then, I think it has become more an issue of costs.


----------



## tigoat

I don't think it will ever strip if tightened properly by a right wrenching junkie. If it does get stripped, Moots could replace the clamp with little effort or it can be fixed by installing a helicoil or simply use a longer bolt and a nut. You worry too much!!!



celt said:


> hey guys,
> 
> I have an opportunity to purchase a Moots Compact at a LBS for a very reasonable price. Love everything about the frame, welds are second to none, breezer dropouts are killer.
> 
> The one thing that gives me the willies is the integrated seat post binder. What is the technical merit in doing that rather than a seat collar that you can replace? If that binder bolt get stripped for any reason, the frame is pretty much junk. Granted, it looks pretty beefy, and you would have to be a gorilla to wreck the threads I would guess, but why not use a separate collar and not worry about it?
> 
> I'm guessing Moots has a good reason for doing so, I'm just not sure what that is.


----------



## nodaknat

*The new Trek Madone...*

First...I've had a Compact SL for 3 years-NO problems. You want something to worry about? Check out the science project Trek is calling the new Madone! After reading this article, it should sufficiently motivate you to head back to your shop as fast as humanly possible, buy a Moots and consider yourself fortunate!


http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/12366.0.html


----------



## Forrest Root

nodaknat said:


> First...I've had a Compact SL for 3 years-NO problems. You want something to worry about? Check out the science project Trek is calling the new Madone! After reading this article, it should sufficiently motivate you to head back to your shop as fast as humanly possible, buy a Moots and consider yourself fortunate!
> 
> 
> http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/12366.0.html


Thanks for the informed opinion.

Next.....


----------



## 08Madone5.2

nodaknat said:


> First...I've had a Compact SL for 3 years-NO problems. You want something to worry about? Check out the science project Trek is calling the new Madone! After reading this article, it should sufficiently motivate you to head back to your shop as fast as humanly possible, buy a Moots and consider yourself fortunate!
> 
> 
> http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/12366.0.html


I was at my LBS the other day and saw a Moots being built up and the bike was truly stunning in its execution and detail. But... you are dead wrong about the so called "science project Trek is calling the new Madone." My new Madone is an excellent bike, the integrated seat mast, cap and clamp works beautifully. As with any other bike, if its parts and bolts are torqued properly to the recommended values of the mfr, you should experience no problems at all. My cap doesn't slip on the mast at all. Your Moots is beautiful, but your point is moot.


----------



## gitoutdaway

I own a compact sl and requested a seatpost clamp instead of the integated binder based on recommendationsof my LBS. Admittedly I can't say it looks quite as good as the integrated one, but i am a bit more assured that each time i play with something there is less to worry about, that has encouraged me to play around with different fitting options, though I'm sure its more phsychological than a real problem. If and when it wears down I'll replace it with a fancy, super-expensive carbon one, just to waste some cash... why not

Something I HAVE found to be slightly annoying in Moots design is the flanges down by the rear dropouts, they are so wide I can't clamp the wheels tightly with the wheel-lever facing up/back as I would normally, instead it has to face down to be able to fully tighten, that kinda sucks if you ask me.

I love the bike otherwise though, best i've ever ridden so far.


----------



## rePhil

gitoutdaway, pro mechanics position the lever that way. The theory is facing forward it won't be opened by the wheel in a pack or crash.


----------



## gitoutdaway

i see, so backwards or down is better than facing up/forward? I notice mechs from bike shops often try to point the wheel skewer lever up and/or forward when they work on the bike and since the flanges don;t allow full closure/clamping on the skewer they will often overly tighten the bolt and leave the thing clamped but not "locked" down. not good if you ask me and I thought this was a shortcoming of the chain and seatstay design, though it looks good...


----------

