# Need some info on the Immortal frames



## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

I went to Cadence the other day and first off the customer service was excellent. Guys were very informative and helpful. Im going to get fitted there soon to my Immortal Spirit. Will cost a pretty penny but I figure I should get the measurements down for my next bike in the future. They had some beautiful Wiliers, Cervelos, Colnagos etc and the prices for just the frames were in the 3-5k range. I told them I was thinking of swapping my Immortal Frame in the future [year or two]. He looked up sizing and discovered that the frame and fork for the Immortal are around $700-750. He remarked thats pretty cheap for a carbon setup.

My question is why is this HM Immortal Frame so cheap? Was the frame used by any other name brand bikes in the past/present? What year did these frames first come out?

I searched but couldnt find anything on those points. thanks


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## covenant (May 21, 2002)

bikesdirect said:


> if you look at this test you will see a Pearson in England using the same frame as our Immortal -- this does not mean the Pearson is a rebadged Motobecane -- it just means we both use the same frame.
> 
> http://pedalforce.com/online/File/Pedalforce_cplus.pdf


The immortal CF frames are made by Advanced Composites in Taiwan.
The earliest I found the Immortal Force on BD's website was June 29th 2005.


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## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

Thanks for that Covenant. Any idea why its so cheap? and when they were first sold?

Im thinking they are probably an older but still good frame thats why its so cheap? I had no answer for the salesman. Id like to have a few when I go for the fitting.

Doh just saw your edit


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

They're current stuff, and good quality. Owners rave about them. High-end bikes are marked up more because of lower volume. There are differences in geometries of different frames, and some (from other brands)are made in China with a cheaper process. I'd be getting one if I could afford it, but I'm settling on aluminum for now, and will upgrade to steel later


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

There are many ways in which the bikesdirect.com business model can cut costs compared to a traditional manufacturer:

No middlemen to pay
No shops to run
Minimal R&D costs
Minimal staffing and support
No marketing, minimal advertizing, no team sponsorships
Lean and mean supply chain - centralized stock management (all in a warehouse)
No negotiation on price - what you see is what you pay
No custom work
No parts swapping - what you see is what you buy
Volume purchasing on frames and parts
etc.

So the cost of the frame is literally just the materials, the assembly, labor, shipping and quality control, and almost all of the other factors (including the non-recurring set-up expenses) are minimized.

The Immortal carbon frames are also a slightly older design. They are of course decent quality and amazing value for money compared to the other options out there. However, there is very little R&D or design innovation in them. Take a look at the fancy features on newer bikes from any of the other big manufacturers - curvy seat-stays and chain stay-stays, over-sized/redesigned bottom brackets, fancy head tubes, fancy carbon lay-ups, aerodynamic shaping, etc. One can argue whether any of that is necessary for recreational riders. Do I really need to worry about having a bike optimized for Boonen's sprinting power output?

The Immortal frame is very utilitarian compared to those so there is a simpler mold, simpler assembly and less tooling. It is also not particularly light at around 1400g compared to high-end carbon frames at 900g. To shave that weight off you need much more expensive materials, much more R&D (CAD/CFD analysis), much tigher tolerances on manufacturing and the price goes up accordingly. I still think there is a healthy profit margin in what bikesdirect is doing with its carbon frames. At the end of the day it is just petrochemicals, a mold and a cost-effective quality manufacturing process in Taiwan.


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## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

Thanks bloke. Im completely satisified with my bike and frame for now as Im hardly maxing it out with my noob abilities so far. Just wanted some background on it as I couldnt tell the salesman anything to alleviate his puzzled look. I knew there had to be a reason they were so cheap compared to the higher end bike frames like Ridley and Cervelo. Sometimes when you pay more you actually get more.


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