# To blow through stop signs... or not?



## Treker (Nov 7, 2007)

I was wondering what the general practice is out there among regular bicycle commuters. Do you blow through stop signs on a regular basis or not? I have to admit that I do, which is something I would never do while driving in a car. I know that it is not legal, but I guess I justify the practice to myself because I can see and hear better what is going on around me than someone in a car, and I am conserving speed and momentem. Of course, I stop if I am negotiating a 4 way with a car, and I always stop at red lights. I never want to get into a situation where I am putting my life in danger, because we all know who will win in a confrontation with a car.

Later,


----------



## roadfix (Jun 20, 2006)

I'll blow it when no one's looking.


----------



## StageHand (Dec 27, 2002)

I blow stop signs regularly, but not indiscriminately. Same with lights. My rule of thumb is whether or not I'm impeding normal/legal flow of traffic. I've rarely (once) gotten negative feedback from the authorities, who will see me break a traffic law several times a week.


----------



## Hollywood (Jan 16, 2003)

roadfix said:


> I'll blow it when no one's looking.


ok.


If its a quiet street I'll cruise through. Any cars involved, I stop. Red lights? Usually not unless its a "T" intersection and I know I won't get t-boned when running it.


----------



## HAL9000 (May 1, 2002)

We had a long thread on this in the recient past. Look it up.

Bottom line:
Don't do it.

You must obey the same rules as a car while on the road.
Even if you think there is no one to see you.


----------



## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

HAL9000 said:


> You must obey the same rules as a car while on the road.
> Even if you think there is no one to see you.


Oh, you probably think that we should follow the speed limits when we drive as well.


----------



## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

There appears to be a definite East Coast/West Coast division of authority on the issue of cyclists going through stop signs and red lights. We take a much more relaxed position with respect to stop signs and red lights on the East Coast than people do on the West Coast. Part of the difference may be attributable to differences in road construction and configuration -- traffic is very different on the slow narrow streets of an East Coast city than on the wide, high speed surface streets of LA. Part of the difference may be attributable to law enforcement -- although the cops were handing tickets out near one of the DC bike trails a month or two ago, I have the impression that the cops are much more likely to enforce the law on stop signs and red lights on the West Coast than they are on the East Coast.

All of the above being said, I would not advise "blowing through" stop signs wherever you are. You should at least slow down enough that you can see if traffic is coming on the cross street.


----------



## undies (Oct 13, 2005)

I'm on the west coast (Oregon) and I blow through stop signs regularly, although only when no other cars are around. Actually, stopping at stop signs is often problematic because cars just assume I'm going to blow through. I always have to wave them through when they have the right-o-way.


----------



## threesportsinone (Mar 27, 2007)

I call them stoptionals for a reason. My main commute is at 1:00pm and 2:30pm (the others are at 5:30 am and 6:45 pm) so there really isn't a whole lot traffic. T-intersections seem like they are always red and there is never anybody at them.


----------



## Treker (Nov 7, 2007)

I guess I would say that I do a "rolling stop" when there are cars around, and blow through when there are no cars and I can clearly see the intersection and the roads leading into it. My main concern is that the drivers see me and that I am clear in my intentions and they can clearly see what I am doing.

On my way home this evening I counted 7 stop signs and 2 traffic lights along my regular commuting route. Of the 7 stop signs I regularly blow through 6 of them. 3 are where I make right hand turns at T's, 1 is a left, and 2 are straight through. The one I never blow through, or almost never anyway, is at the corner of a main highway. I never blow through the lights even when I could as they are always on the major roads.

In one sense I feel pretty lucky as most of my route is along the frontage road of a major trunk highway, so the traffic is very light even during rush hour. The only time I run into much traffic on my route is when the trunk highway is really backed up. Then a bunch of the car commuters end up on the frontage road looking for a faster way around the traffic jam. And even on those days the traffic is not too bad. And it is always very satisfying on those days to be making more progress than the car commuters out on the trunk highway.

Later,


----------



## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

OverStuffed said:


> ..... I've rarely (once) gotten negative feedback from the authorities, who will see me break a traffic law several times a week.


Moving to DC from LA I was quite shocked to be riding with folks (my wife for instance) who would run red lights and stop signs right in front of police officers  .

I've been here for some time now and I still won't race past a police officer at a stop sign or red light. In any other instance I treat red lights and stop signs as if they are yield signs. Wouldn't do it in any busy wide open city like are found in the west or Florida.


----------



## thespoonman (Mar 19, 2006)

I think MB1 has it...I commute during heavy traffic fromt he north side of chicago to the south side. I know which red lights I need to stop at and which ones I can coast through. I would never think of going through a stop sign anywhere on my commute without being able to look both ways several times. 

One way streets are a whole other story. 

?does anyone cut over to the opposite side of a T-intersection to cross on a red if they have a blind spot on the right? I'm not sure how to word this so a mental image pops up. 

What is everyone's view on riding in between cars when they are blocking the shoulder or the shoulder is so horrible it would most likely throw me into a car if I tried to ride it?


----------



## Chris H (Jul 7, 2005)

When I'm commuting I tend to view the Stop sign as more of a Yield unless there are other vehicles present. I'll always try to give right of way to anyone who gets to a stop sign before me.

I did have one guy yell at me last week for slowly rolling through a stop sign. He was coming the opposite direction, so neither of us was a factor for the other. Thing is, he didn't stop either.


----------



## skulls (Sep 15, 2005)

Ah, I live in New York. You aren't going to be going anywhere very fast without blowing some red lights. Stop signs are decoration.....Heck, the cops do it all the time, why shouldn't I?


----------



## PdxMark (Feb 3, 2004)

MB1 said:


> In any other instance I treat red lights and stop signs as if they are yield signs. Wouldn't do it in any busy wide open city like are found in the west or Florida.


The cycling hotbed of Idaho actually has a statute allowing bikes to treat stop sings as yields. It makes perfect sense. We almost got it passed here in Oregon in 2003, but it was too late in the session. In the meantime, Portland Police have gone @pesh!t @nal about enforcing stop sign etiquette among cyclists. An Idaho-style stop sign law is at the top of my bicycling statutory X-mas list.


----------



## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*by that reasoning..*



Pablo said:


> Oh, you probably think that we should follow the speed limits when we drive as well.


its ok to break laws as long as everyone else is doing it? 

fact is...running stop signs on a bike...physics will some day win...and you will enjoy the taste of a quarterpanel...the results are purely left to physics. 

and your family will enjoy encuring medical debt and feeding you through a tube some day...

IMO, if you have something to live for, its about the dumbest and most selfish thing you can do...especially if you willingly decide to run stop signs.


----------



## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*and if you're paying attention..*



PdxMark said:


> The cycling hotbed of Idaho actually has a statute allowing bikes to treat stop sings as yields. It makes perfect sense. We almost got it passed here in Oregon in 2003, but it was too late in the session. In the meantime, Portland Police have gone @pesh!t @nal about enforcing stop sign etiquette among cyclists. An Idaho-style stop sign law is at the top of my bicycling statutory X-mas list.


that particular action (running reds) has NOT treated two local cyclists very well here in PDX...
one on Marine drive (still vegetable in hospital)...one with several broken bones downtown running a red....both hit by drivers actually following the rules of the road. 

I have no sympathy...


----------



## PdxMark (Feb 3, 2004)

bahueh said:


> that particular action (running reds) has NOT treated two local cyclists very well here in PDX...
> one on Marine drive (still vegetable in hospital)...one with several broken bones downtown running a red....both hit by drivers actually following the rules of the road.
> 
> I have no sympathy...


Your humanity is .... striking. Ahh, who else is deserving of their life-changing injuries & ailments in bahueh's world view? Better yet, who isn't deserving of suffering? If a crippling injury is justice for a minor traffic violation, what do you save for someone who does something truly bad?

Do you know what happened in those two cases? Do you really? Despite initial press reports about Bob Verrinder's crash, it appears that he wasn't quite the crippling-injury-deserving scofflaw that you imply:

http://bikeportland.org/2007/10/30/update-new-details-on-marine-drive-collision/

As for the downtown incident, it seems that your judgmental glee at Kyle Egertson's injuries isn't quite so well supported by facts after that initial report:

http://bikeportland.org/2007/11/08/...-with-claim-of-cyclist-bias-at-police-bureau/
http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/13637.0.html

He might not have run any stop light at all. 

Finally, your literacy is also a marvel to behold. Your cited case downtown relates to stop lights. The statute relates to stop signs. Yield signs mean you must stop if another has the right of way. 

If YOU'RE paying attention...


----------



## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

*Nice, very nice.*



bahueh said:


> its ok to break laws as long as everyone else is doing it?
> 
> fact is...running stop signs on a bike...physics will some day win...and you will enjoy the taste of a quarterpanel...the results are purely left to physics.
> 
> ...


I guess you are in Portland which the last I knew is a West Coast city. Things sure are different here in the East. 

All my closest near accidents and the last time I was hit by a car were all a result of the driver breaking the law. I figure the best thing I can do as a cyclist in the city is to stay away from cars as much as I can-even more so at intersections. That means getting out of an intersecton just as quickly as I safely can.

Out in the country different actions are rewarded but the same idea holds. My safety is dependent on my actions and being around moving motorvehicles is about the most dangerous place to be. Get away from them just a fast and cleanly as you can.

BTW you still haven't told us if you obey the posted max speed limit while driving.


----------



## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

*Good one.*



skulls said:


> ..... Stop signs are decoration..........


I'll have to remember that one.


----------



## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

I don't blow through signs, but I do slow down and usually roll them. Most of the places where I have ridden have poor visibility at the stop sign either from trees or walls around a subdivision. Most of my close calls have been from cars driving past the stop sign to the edge of the intersection so that they can see. Then again, some drivers just drive that way no matter what the intersection looks like.


----------



## Treker (Nov 7, 2007)

skulls said:


> <Snip> Stop signs are decoration.....<Snip>


Well, if that is the case where you come from, it is that time of year! Maybe you should hang some garland and a few lights on some of the stop signs in your neighborhood!  

Of course, you should stay away from the spray paint and such. I would never condone doing any "permanent" damage to public property, but a garland here and there just might put others in the spirit of the season!


----------



## ktm882 (Aug 14, 2007)

It all boils down to ones physicality. Guys/gals who have raced (anything except feet) are a lot more wired in the brain to make a quick judgement. If you arent one of those then stop or you will be stopped. 20 years of motocross and 2 years of BMX have trained my brain to react pretty quick.I do rolling stops and read traffic and people, I know what you are about to do before you do it. If you do not have a kinetic sense, DONT DO IT. I sometimes chase cars and buses, the 'free wind' is awesome.  I actually have cops cheering me on when I do my local hill laps. Sometimes they actually stop the cars to let me ride through a canged or chaning light. and I live in NY, so there west coast.


----------



## Squidward (Dec 18, 2005)

MB1 said:


> Moving to DC from LA I was quite shocked to be riding with folks (my wife for instance) who would run red lights and stop signs right in front of police officers  .
> 
> I've been here for some time now and I still won't race past a police officer at a stop sign or red light. In any other instance I treat red lights and stop signs as if they are yield signs. Wouldn't do it in any busy wide open city like are found in the west or Florida.


Just this past Monday morning, on my ride to work I blew through the few stopsigns that line my morning ride down the hill from my house. Since it is very early and still very dark out I can easily see the headlights of oncoming cars (though I'm mindful of cars without their lights on - I ride with both a head and tail light). At about the third stopsign I can see that a car was approaching the stopsign (T-intersection, three-way stop) and that I was going to get there before the car so I blew through it without so much as touching the brakes. The next block the signal light turned red as I approached so I slammed on the brakes and barely stopped in time. The car that was approaching the 3-way stop pulled up beside and behind me and, when the light changed the car passed me. It was a police car. I think that, had I run the red light, he would have pulled me over but since I only ran a stopsign (at full speed, no less) he didn't think much of it.


----------



## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

The justification that since many motorists speed, it is OK to blow lights is ridiculous--- Most motorists do not drive against traffic, drive on the wrong side of the road, completely blow through stoplights, ignore stop signs completely (sorry, there is a difference between slowly rolling through a stop and ignoring it completely).

My approach is to take the lane and to behave like a vehicle--- as much as possible. I find that to be the safest approach.




MB1 said:


> I guess you are in Portland which the last I knew is a West Coast city. Things sure are different here in the East.
> 
> All my closest near accidents and the last time I was hit by a car were all a result of the driver breaking the law. I figure the best thing I can do as a cyclist in the city is to stay away from cars as much as I can-even more so at intersections. That means getting out of an intersecton just as quickly as I safely can.
> 
> ...


----------



## PomPilot (May 17, 2006)

Riding with my furry 'navigator' I tend to stand out. 








So I adhere to all of the rules of the road that I can. Why draw negative attention to yourself?

On the plus side, the local law enforcement & fire fighters have been known to call us over (they actually call Merry, not me) if they are talking to young people and they see us riding by. Something about even Merry remembering to wear her helmet when riding. :wink:


----------



## OneGear (Aug 19, 2005)

always rolling stop to stop signs to see if theres anyone... no exceptions. stop if you have to, roll if theres nobody.

always stop at a red, if its light to no traffic, proceed.


----------



## Muaythaibike (Oct 26, 2007)

You guys who are saying dont do it are just strang.. A bike is not a car and if i can do it without getting killed then hell ya.... Dont you understant we will never get the same rights as cars so take the liberties... Dont fight the power..


----------



## HAL9000 (May 1, 2002)

Learn to track stand!


----------



## TheDogMan (Sep 29, 2004)

Treker said:


> I was wondering what the general practice is out there among regular bicycle commuters. Do you blow through stop signs on a regular basis or not? I have to admit that I do, which is something I would never do while driving in a car. I know that it is not legal, but I guess I justify the practice to myself because I can see and hear better what is going on around me than someone in a car, and I am conserving speed and momentem. Of course, I stop if I am negotiating a 4 way with a car, and I always stop at red lights. I never want to get into a situation where I am putting my life in danger, because we all know who will win in a confrontation with a car.


To blow or not to blow... Depends on how lucky you feel today!

If you make a habit of blowing thru stop signs, or rolling thru red lights, the law of averages will eventually catch up with you, and you're gonna get hit. Might not be today, or tomorrow, but eventually, it'll happen. .

Think about it this way... Do you drive your car like you drive your bike? Just keep in mind when, at 7 a.m., you run a light or sign you could be setting a bad example for some kid watching you from his/her bedroom window as he/she prepares for school, not to mention any voting age adult who now won't back bicycle issues in your community because of all these "law-breaking bicyclists" on the roads and streets. 

If cyclists want to be treated like the legitimate road users we are under the law, we must act within that law at all times. Our laws serve to protect as well as punish, so if you violate a traffic law and a collision or something something else you didn't plan on happens, the law can't protect you. You or your survivors will receive no relief in the criminal or civil courts.

The law requires you to do two things at a stop sign -- to stop, and to yield to any crossing traffic. Learn to do a track stand at all those bothersome stop lights and signs. Doing a track stand constitutes a legal stop, conserves the your energy during longer commutes and never fails to get everyone's attention.

Tom Ezell
LCI #1853


----------

