# best brakes?



## DRLski (Apr 26, 2003)

What would you guys consider as the best brakes for cyclocross? I have a pair of the Avid Shorty 6's right now and they squeel so loud it mind as well be nails on a chalkboard.


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## sevenfootglass (Oct 14, 2005)

i have the same brakes and i'm not happy with them either


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## bikenerd (Jan 22, 2004)

Pauls. Simply the best. Yeah they're expensive, but you'll spend more money experimenting around and still end with them . . .


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## bopApocalypse (Aug 30, 2006)

DRLski said:


> I have a pair of the Avid Shorty 6's right now and they squeel so loud it mind as well be nails on a chalkboard.


I run the shorty Ti's (same as the 6's, a little lighter and more $$), and had some squealing problems before. I fixed this by
a) agressively toeing in the brake pads
if that doesn't help
b) putting kool-stop pads in

I'm looking at the paul neo-retro's for my new bike for next season - the fact that they use threaded pads is a big plus, but i'm unclear on how the spring tensioning works - i'm pretty happy with just having a screw on each brake arm.


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## single1x1 (Mar 26, 2005)

*open 15mm wrench*



bopApocalypse said:


> I run the shorty Ti's (same as the 6's, a little lighter and more $$), and had some squealing problems before. I fixed this by
> a) agressively toeing in the brake pads
> if that doesn't help
> b) putting kool-stop pads in
> ...


 The tension adjustment is with a 15mm wrench flat, on the part of the brake where you tighten the brake onto the canti post. you hold the wrench on the flat approxamatly vertical while you tighten the brake on the canti post with the allen wrench. the spring is a strong coil spring that goes into the center canti mount hole . Not really easy to explain but easy to do , just read the directions and then you will have a easy set up very strong brake with great mud clearance and none of the usuall problems of having to readjust the spring tension adjustment occasanally with a mini allen wrench which might strip out, which has happened to me with avid shorties, or a small screwdriver just cause you had to remove the wheel to put it on top of your car.
They cost about 2x more then shorty sixes or the new shimano's but they stay adjusted, are very light, and look killer, my only regret is that I didn't buy a pair sooner, I still need to get two pairs for my geared cross bike, but I have one on front of my fixed crosscheck and it is awesome. If you have some cartrige pads and holders that is the only thing to do to improve it, but the original kool stops are good enough to just use up before you need to upgrade.


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## sol 518 (Sep 2, 2005)

I've been using FrogLegs since the middle of last season. I haven't had any problems. Good power, great mud clearance.


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## travis200 (Oct 29, 2002)

I have used Froglegs, Cane creeks, Avid Shorty 4's and 6 and Paul Neo Retro's. Hands down Pauls are the best at sheer stopping power but that cost $$. I never felt like stopping or slowing was a problem with the paul's. Avids stink I am not impressed at all with them. Cane Creeks are really nice I used them for the 1st time in my single speed race today and they were fantastic. I also used the Froglegs today in my B's race and even with Ritchey red pads there was times where I thought I am not going to slow down enough to make the hair pin turn. I miss my Paul's set up.


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## PJB (Apr 1, 2006)

XTR canti"s they are hard to find, but worth it.


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## jeremyb (Jun 16, 2004)

Yeah Paul's are nice, really nice.

Im using Froggleggs right now, the set up is a little archaic (involves bending with Vice Grips). But I'm too lazy to mount the Paul's on the bike.

I've had very good results with Avids, you just have to know how to set them up.

I will give anyone $5 for every pair of Avid's they have...I like em.


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## kajukembo (Jan 20, 2003)

I use the Paul's as well. Clearly the best solution.


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

the avids are fine if you swap the pads for kool stops and put some effort into the setup.


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## PMC (Jan 29, 2004)

One more for the Paul's bandwagon
I run the neo up front and a touring rear...

I have another bike with the el-cheapo Shimano BR500s and they work plenty good too but don't have the same bling factor the Paul's.


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## wunlap togo (Oct 1, 2004)

Has anyone mentioned that Paul Component brakes are the best? I've found that the gold ones that I have are the fastest ones that they make.


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## jeremyb (Jun 16, 2004)

wunlap togo said:


> Has anyone mentioned that Paul Component brakes are the best? I've found that the gold ones that I have are the fastest ones that they make.



Josh, i got these gold cable hangers that would look sweet with those Pauls of yours.


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## ndbike (Aug 17, 2005)

I tried my new Froglegs this weekend for the first time. Very impressed. WAY BETTER than the Avids I was running before. One thing though, I swapped the original Froglegs pads for older XT style cantilever pads. Great stopping power and modulation. Oh, and no squeel. I've got a set of IRD Camfams in boxes to replace my other Avids with, so I'm curious how the will work out.


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## GraniteX (Sep 21, 2006)

discs? anyone?


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## ndbike (Aug 17, 2005)

GraniteX said:


> discs? anyone?


Not here. I still use XTR V-brakes on my MTB, and for UCI 'cross races discs still aren't allowed. I don't think they will be in the foreseeable future either.


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## DRLski (Apr 26, 2003)

ndbike said:


> Not here. I still use XTR V-brakes on my MTB, and for UCI 'cross races discs still aren't allowed. I don't think they will be in the foreseeable future either.


Personally I don't see the problem that the UCI has with disc brakes, they may be a bit more of an advantage in the mud and snow but they also weigh the bike down quite a bit so you're kind of neutralizing any advantage that you have using disc brakes.


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## jeremyb (Jun 16, 2004)

DRLski said:


> Personally I don't see the problem that the UCI has with disc brakes, they may be a bit more of an advantage in the mud and snow but they also weigh the bike down quite a bit so you're kind of neutralizing any advantage that you have using disc brakes.



In a crash theyre blades of death.


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## cx_fan (Jul 30, 2004)

Vote for Spooky's...like everything else new..this is an old design from back in the 60's or 70's.

Work great, easy to setup and worry free. Great mud clearance also.


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## fleck (Mar 25, 2005)

jeremyb said:


> In a crash theyre blades of death.


good point, because MTB riders never crash...

so why run the paul neo up front and the touring brake in the rear? I've hear a lot of people with that setup...


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## morganfletcher (Oct 18, 2004)

I've used Mr. Grumpys and Shimano BR-500s and Pauls, and I really like the Paul Neo-Retro / Touring combo with the Kool Stop pads that come with them. Nice brakes. They're just powerful enough, adjust nicely, are light and easy to set up, and look cool. Cost a pile but I like to support the little, local businesses. Just put a set on my wife's Cannondale, took off the "Cannondale" (Shimano?) brakes that were on there and she's also very happy with the Pauls.

Touring in rear is so you don't hit your leg on the arms remounting or running.

I've been trying to talk my mtn bike racer friend Johann out of using V-brakes on his first cross bike, telling him "You don't need to stop or skid, just to slow down. Cross is all about economy and efficiency and carrying speed. You need modulation, not rim-stopping power." But he's going to go with V-brakes. He'll probably still be fast.

FWIW.

Morgan


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

dfleck said:


> good point, because MTB riders never crash...
> 
> so why run the paul neo up front and the touring brake in the rear? I've hear a lot of people with that setup...



mtb'ers don't usually hoist their rigs shoulder high and hop over barriers either.


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

jeremyb said:


> In a crash theyre blades of death.


Where does this come from??? I have an mountain bike, a road bike and a cross bike with disc brakes. I just went out to the garage and ran my fingers around the discs on all three. None are the least bit sharp.

Do you have a bike with disc brakes? Have you (can you) cut yourself on them with less pressure than you would need with a butter knife?

Again, where does this story come from???

TF


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## racedotcx (Sep 22, 2006)

I'm a big fan of the spooky cyclocross brakes. Simple design, easy to adjust, lightweight, and lots of mud clearance. Also, a set of the spookies will cost about half as much as a set of the pauls 

Made in Holland. Classic. Simple.


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## jeremyb (Jun 16, 2004)

blackhat said:


> mtb'ers don't usually hoist their rigs shoulder high and hop over barriers either.



a crash in a CX race is more like a crash in a crit or a road race than one in a mtb race. More people closer together, on a short lap.


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## jeremyb (Jun 16, 2004)

TurboTurtle said:


> Where does this come from??? I have an mountain bike, a road bike and a cross bike with disc brakes. I just went out to the garage and ran my fingers around the discs on all three. None are the least bit sharp.
> 
> Do you have a bike with disc brakes? Have you (can you) cut yourself on them with less pressure than you would need with a butter knife?
> 
> ...



Hey Disc lovers calm down, just what ive been told as the reason why they were banned. 

However, Discs ARE sharper than my cantilevers brakes! A butter knife is a type of knife and knives are used to cut things. Therefore, disc brakes will cut you.

Remember you have to run bar plugs too---because a chunk of meat might come out of your leg if you didnt have them-----and I can tell you from personal experience this really will happen.


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

jeremyb said:


> Hey Disc lovers calm down, just what ive been told as the reason why they were banned.
> 
> However, Discs ARE sharper than my cantilevers brakes! A butter knife is a type of knife and knives are used to cut things. Therefore, disc brakes will cut you.
> 
> Remember you have to run bar plugs too---because a chunk of meat might come out of your leg if you didnt have them-----and I can tell you from personal experience this really will happen.


In other words you were just spouting nonsense and have no idea. Please remove your hands from the keyboard and stand back. - TF


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

TurboTurtle said:


> In other words you were just spouting nonsense and have no idea. Please remove your hands from the keyboard and stand back. - TF


yeah, I don't know about "nonsense". Avids are sharp enough to cause a cut w/o much effort, and any of them get uncomfortably hot with frequent use. put those 2 together and its a good reason not to be hoisting them shoulder high in traffic if you can avoid it. which you can. cyclocrossworld.com had something up a couple years ago about someone who needed stitches to close a wound caused by a disc, so theres at least credibly anecdotal evidence that it can/has happened.


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

blackhat said:


> yeah, I don't know about "nonsense". Avids are sharp enough to cause a cut w/o much effort, and any of them get uncomfortably hot with frequent use. put those 2 together and its a good reason not to be hoisting them shoulder high in traffic if you can avoid it. which you can. cyclocrossworld.com had something up a couple years ago about someone who needed stitches to close a wound caused by a disc, so theres at least credibly anecdotal evidence that it can/has happened.


Anecdotal evidence?

I have a nice scar on my leg from where a chain ring took out an inch and a half chunk of meat. My leg - not a couple of years ago that someone heard... Shall we ban chain rings?

Three bikes in my garage say they are as dull as a butter knife - two Avids and one Hope. I couldn't cut my self with one if I wanted to.

How about your discs? Can you cut yourself?

TF


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

TurboTurtle said:


> How about your discs? Can you cut yourself?
> 
> TF


probably if I tried. I agree that they're not knives, but the avid disc I had could cut flesh if it was spinning, I think. but, as that sentence implies, I got rid of my mech discs on my MTB and went back to rim brakes, so I'm not impartial. you're correct, they're not as dangerous as a chainring, Im currently nursing a deep cut on my knuckle from a tooth on my outer ring I smacked while changing pedals, but it's easier to "ban" a brake than it is a chainring if you're writing rules for a bike race.


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## TWD (Feb 9, 2004)

blackhat said:


> yeah, I don't know about "nonsense". Avids are sharp enough to cause a cut w/o much effort, and any of them get uncomfortably hot with frequent use. put those 2 together and its a good reason not to be hoisting them shoulder high in traffic if you can avoid it. which you can. cyclocrossworld.com had something up a couple years ago about someone who needed stitches to close a wound caused by a disc, so theres at least credibly anecdotal evidence that it can/has happened.


Ahhh yes.....the old "don't get near me with that razor sharp burning hot rotor when you're shouldering it in a race" argument.

Two questions for you? 

1. Which side of the bike are disc rotors mounted on?
2. Which shoulder do you and pretty much everyone use to shoulder their bike?

Sorry, but I don't believe that discs being dangerous bit has nothing to do with the UCI banning them, otherwise they would be banned for XC mtb racing.

The big chainring is far more dangerous in terms of design and position on the bikes than discs ever have been or will be.

And by the way.....I don't run discs on my cross bike. Only on my MTB.


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## 21switchbacks (Aug 6, 2004)

TurboTurtle said:


> Anecdotal evidence?
> 
> I have a nice scar on my leg from where a chain ring took out an inch and a half chunk of meat. My leg - not a couple of years ago that someone heard... Shall we ban chain rings?
> 
> ...


I have a 6" long scar on my a$$ from landing on my rear rotor in a MTB crash - please don't ask for any photographic proof  . That said, I don't think thats why they aren't allowed and I agree that a chainring is much more dangerous. I believe its more of an effort to keep the bikes traditional.


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## [email protected] (Aug 24, 2004)

jeremyb said:


> In a crash theyre blades of death.


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## fsgray (May 31, 2006)

Avids (or any canti) are fine if you set them up right. However they are not fine as far as mud clearance goes, so I put in an order for Frogglegs recently. No more races with locked up rear wheels. Not sure how the Paul setup spares this, but part of my issue was lack of frame clearance too.


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## steel515 (Sep 6, 2004)

whats the difference between the 2 paul brakes (neo retro and other one) for cross?


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## elmar schrauth (Feb 19, 2007)

spokes are more dangerous than discs


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## pdxccx (Sep 24, 2005)

steel515 said:


> whats the difference between the 2 paul brakes (neo retro and other one) for cross?


The other one is the Pauls Touring brake. It sticks out less than the Neo Retro and is sometimes used in the rear as the Neo-retro in the rear can get in the way of your calves, or something like that. Sorry that's anecdotal, please don't jump on me for not having proof positive!


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## The Sundance Kid (Oct 2, 2007)

TWD said:


> Two questions for you?
> 
> 1. Which side of the bike are disc rotors mounted on?
> 2. Which shoulder do you and pretty much everyone use to shoulder their bike?


The situations where safety would be a concern are 
1) Jabbing your hot spinning disk into someone else's back/shoulder on a crowded runup
2) 10 person chain reaction pileup 

These seem like reasonable safety concerns and apply to CX and not MTB. More importantly the extra weight (and for that matter cost) negates any benefit of improved stopping power. They are not the best tool for the job. The upshot is this rule only applies to elite categories at UCI races, everyone else can just run what they brung and enjoy themselves. Unless you are an elite rider who wishes they could run discs for Cross people should stop posting about how the UCI disc brake ban is stupid. other than Adam Craig I haven't really heard anyone complain about this. And fast or not, Adam Craig is still wrong about disc brakes being better for cross.


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## colinr (Nov 20, 2006)

Hot spinning discs? What the hell? Does anyone really brake enough on a CX course for their rotors to heat up to a dangerous level? No.



The Sundance Kid said:


> And fast or not, Adam Craig is still wrong about disc brakes being better for cross.


Who cares if he's wrong? Using that as a justification for banning discs makes no more sense than banning steel frames and then saying "oh well if you like them, you're probably wrong, so it's no big deal that we banned them." If a dude wants to roll with discs, f'in let him.


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## tjanson (Nov 11, 2006)

I use XT cantis on the front and LX on the back (cause thats what the shop had in the back room). I run them with the dia-compe straddle hanger thing and cable, not the stock shimano triangle thing. They seem to stop pretty darn well. I have never needed more power or more modulation. I haven't tried anything else though.


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## The Sundance Kid (Oct 2, 2007)

I'm not saying because AC is wrong they should be banned. I'm saying no one else this effects seems to mind as far as I can tell so therefore it doesn't matter. Go ahead find some elite riders to disagree with me. I just don't think there is anyone clamoring to reverse this. I simply wanted to point out that while AC may be an excellent cyclist I disagree with his opinion. That was not an argument, simply a statement of fact. The first part of my post could be construed as arguing in favor of the ban. I was just trying to explain the possibly spurious logic of the ban as many people seemed to be unclear about why the UCI sees cross as different from MTB. I am neither for or against the ban, but I strongly believe that cantis are better for cyclocross racing. People can ride whatever makes them happy, but if they ride disc brakes in a cross race i think it will slow them down.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

Old-school cantis that stick straight out look like they could also do some damage in a crash.


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## i_r_beej (Jul 26, 2006)

+1 for Avid Shortys being A-OK. They are a modern, low-profile cantilever. Thus they are a little less forgiving in set-up than the atavistic Spooky/Froggleg/TRP Mafac clones.

I run Kool-Stop Eagle IIs in mine. I've also used their dual-compound "Mtn. Pad" with great results.

I have a 2006 LeMond Poprad with the alloy Kenesis fork and since switching out the stock Avid pads brake squeal and shudder are a thing of the past. I think too many folks that never rode cantis back in the 80's just don't take the time to properly set them up.

But I'm old and crotchety so don't listen to me.

Oh-- one more thing. About UCI's banning of disc brakes? UCI are a bunch of neolithic, retarded, asshats. They seem to like to ban anything and everything that some old fart on the board decides they don't like or mistrust or just don't understand. Monkeys!


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

They're great 'till you have to adjust them. Then they're a PITA.


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## jamisjockey (Dec 1, 2007)

I'd think having crappy brakes in a wet and sloppy race is more of a danger than discs. Eff the UCI board.

This thread caught me at a moment when I'm deciding what to do about my Surly. My brakes are some horrific cheap cantis with low end pads. They won't stop me very well on a dry flat road. My hands were actually cramping at Iron Cross on the descents from squeezing them all the way down.
So, the general consensus is that the Avids, with some decent pads, are good brakes? I've got some new inline levers I want to try, also, will the Avids work in combo with them?


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## Sasquatchcycles (Dec 2, 2007)

*Best brakes?*

Magura HS-66...mud is never an issue, no fouled lines...set and forget (for years).


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## elmar schrauth (Feb 19, 2007)

jamisjockey said:


> I'd think having crappy brakes in a wet and sloppy race is more of a danger than discs. Eff the UCI board.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*you say you are old and crotchety*



i_r_beej said:


> +1 for Avid Shortys being A-OK. They are a modern, low-profile cantilever. Thus they are a little less forgiving in set-up than the atavistic Spooky/Froggleg/TRP Mafac clones.
> 
> I run Kool-Stop Eagle IIs in mine. I've also used their dual-compound "Mtn. Pad" with great results.
> 
> ...


and then you choose to use low profile

then you side with the disc brake crowd and call the UCI neolithic

you clearly are neither as old or crotchety as you claim to be

running Spooky's and Froggleggs with Czech Yehstar pads and I toe them with vise grips and needle nose pliers. I've never had neither a stopping or mud clearance issue

bought a bike with the Avids on it. Squeal squeal squeal. Avid sent me these new pads, which I added plus toeing. the were quiet for about a week.

never liked them, replaced them with Spooky's and never looked back


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## jerry_in_VT (Oct 13, 2006)

*XTR Cantis*

My favs of all time. XTs will do in a pinch as well but not LX. I have a couple sets of each and the LX are much firmer/less modulation. XTR, the last generation prior to v's. 

50 bucks on ebay gets you setup. Still less then the new ones out there.

Anyone tried the Kores? Can you even buy them anywhere yet? Then again, I ran wide cantis on the rear one race this year and still have the scare on my hip to prove it.

J-retro


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## fleck (Mar 25, 2005)

anyone try these yet?
http://cyclocrossworld.stores.yahoo.net/tecr720cabr.html
I like the design of them, Easy to adjust the toe-in, yet a more open canti design...
how is the power on it?


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## bwcross (Sep 30, 2006)

DRLski said:


> Personally I don't see the problem that the UCI has with disc brakes, they may be a bit more of an advantage in the mud and snow but they also weigh the bike down quite a bit so you're kind of neutralizing any advantage that you have using disc brakes.


So what is the UCI's problem again with disc brakes? Has anyone seen it specifically in writing? I'm curious why it's okay for mtb and not cross. These big mountain bike World Cups are pretty much pack races just the same as cross. What's the difference?

Yesterday's race was a mudfest, and my canti's on carbon rims were worthless. One guy dumped in front of me and with two hands full of brakes I t-boned him full on - no slowing down. Talk about unsafe. I'll take the weight penalty for fully functioning brakes.


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## Lord Taipan (Aug 10, 2006)

dfleck said:


> anyone try these yet?
> http://cyclocrossworld.stores.yahoo.net/tecr720cabr.html
> I like the design of them, Easy to adjust the toe-in, yet a more open canti design...
> how is the power on it?


I have those on the Ridley now...they came with my Scott CX. They were "interesting" to set up as they came with no instuctions at all. I figured em out. I like them way better than the Avid Shorty 4's I have on the trainer bike.


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## Derf (Jul 1, 2003)

Avids with good pads setup right work well. 

In regards to inline levers, they will work fine with avids. Mine, actually had more power with them than with my sti. FYI - no loss of power with my sti after putting on the other levers.


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## Float (May 27, 2005)

*T Bone Slice and Dice, Brakes on Roids*



bwcross said:


> One guy dumped in front of me and with two hands full of brakes I t-boned him full on - no slowing down. Talk about unsafe. I'll take the weight penalty for fully functioning brakes.


I've got a couple issues with disc brakes on a CX bike for racing.

Disc stopping power is overkill for a skinny tire contact patch, locking up disc's and skidding in mud is pretty easy.

There are plenty of sharp objects on a bike that could injure a rider when getting t-boned, adding disc's would be one more sharp object to get cut up on.

I know this seems like a very remote chance, but I'm for no disc brake racing on tight courses where bumping and grinding your fellow racer is part on the game.

I sympathize with the lack of control you felt when T boning your fellow competitor (hope nobody got injured), and disc's seem like the simple solution. Disc's add some other issues and the KIS adage may apply here. 

Since my above comment is a bit off topic for this thread, 

My two cents for "best brakes" would be any brake set up correctly with proper pads for the riding condition, and riding within your brakes and tires capabilities also is a factor. 

If your sponsored or your pocket book is deep then go for Spooky's Empella's or TRP's. 

Kore's Sport and the new Tektro CR 720 look good if you don't mind the wide profile, I do and run the Cane Creek SCX-5's with a Salsa stradle carrier, they having stopping power in spades for my 190lb arse.


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## elmar schrauth (Feb 19, 2007)

advantages of discbrakes
more mud clearance
wheel runs better ,when bend ,or spoke is broken 
young riders like the cool look and dont feel riding an anachronistic bike


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## patineto (Nov 2, 2007)

I know I Know the *Mud * the *Freaking Mud* but I'm being using "brake boosters" since forever with excellent results.in most of my bikes even my tandems.









My Favorite are the DKG ,sadlly today almost impossible to find.









They help a lot, since the brake bosses do not flex at all.









pS: The tires on the photos are 2.5 downhill type tires. very massive, a normal cyclocross tire will have a ton of clearance.


I even make some of my own for forks with extreme dimensions (rigid, 20mm "downhill" forks) were the brake bosses are really far apart out of marine plywood (fiberglass, multiply wood) old skateboard decks and fenolic resin, at the moment I'm looking for pictures., the ones you make can be tall and wide enough to let the mud go by,but then your legs may touch the rear brace.


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## colinr (Nov 20, 2006)

patineto said:


> I even make some of my own for forks with extreme dimensions (rigid, 20mm "downhill" forks) were the brake bosses are really far apart out of marine plywood (fiberglass, multiply wood) old skateboard decks and fenolic resin, at the moment I'm looking for pictures., the ones you make can be tall and wide enough to let the mud go by,but then your legs may touch the rear brace.


!

You can't just post pics of a crazy bike with double brakes without a little backstory!


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## TWD (Feb 9, 2004)

The Sundance Kid said:


> The situations where safety would be a concern are
> 1) Jabbing your hot spinning disk into someone else's back/shoulder on a crowded runup
> 2) 10 person chain reaction pileup
> .


Wow.....do you even read the part of my post that you quoted? This thread is over a year old, but let's rehash it again.

Let me explain it to you again. Disc brakes are mounted on the left side of your bike. Virtually everyone shoulders their bike on the right shoulder, which put's the disc brake on the side of the bike facing your body, with the bike between any other rider and the "hot spinning discs." And the only time disc brakes get hot is when you drag them down longs downhills, which is never the case in a cross race.

Your point #1 is a complete non-issue. 

As for a 10-person chain reaction pileup, that would really only apply on the first lap of a CX race, as the fields get strung out pretty quickly after that. That really is no different than a whole lot of mountain bike races where they start you out in a pack on a road or wide trail then neck down into singletrack. 

Now if discs were really sharp and dangerous then I would agree with you, ban them on those grounds, but ban them from all categories and for all disciplines (road, mtb and cross). Then ban all bladed spokes for all mass start events, and require an outer chain gaurd to protect against the big chainring.

Honestly, I've never seen an official postion in writing from the UCI stating that discs are banned for safety reasons, that's just what gets spouted repeadetly on internet forums.


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## TWD (Feb 9, 2004)

colinr said:


> !
> 
> You can't just post pics of a crazy bike with double brakes without a little backstory!


What he didn't tell you is that he has 4 hands!!!!! 

From what little you can see of the frame, it's a mountain tandem, which explains the need for massive braking power, but I'm not sure what advantage the v-brakes add to the 8" rotor hydros. 

I suppose using both brakes at once would add power, but from the lever setup it looks like you'd have to use all four fingers to actuate both brakes.


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## Sasquatchcycles (Dec 2, 2007)

bwcross said:


> So what is the UCI's problem again with disc brakes? Has anyone seen it specifically in writing? I'm curious why it's okay for mtb and not cross. These big mountain bike World Cups are pretty much pack races just the same as cross. What's the difference?
> 
> Yesterday's race was a mudfest, and my canti's on carbon rims were worthless. One guy dumped in front of me and with two hands full of brakes I t-boned him full on - no slowing down. Talk about unsafe. I'll take the weight penalty for fully functioning brakes.



Though nobody commented on it when I first mentioned it, Magura HS-66s..hydraulic rim brakes with drop levers...none of the drawbacks others have mentioned about discs (except a little more weight than cable cantis) and these are rim brakes that work just fine in mud/snow/ice and also once set don't need maint. for years....why don't people like them? Granted they aren't manufactured any more, but they show up for sale pretty regularly.


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## TWD (Feb 9, 2004)

Sasquatchcycles said:


> Though nobody commented on it when I first mentioned it, Magura HS-66s..hydraulic rim brakes with drop levers...none of the drawbacks others have mentioned about discs (except a little more weight than cable cantis) and these are rim brakes that work just fine in mud/snow/ice and also once set don't need maint. for years....why don't people like them? Granted they aren't manufactured any more, but they show up for sale pretty regularly.


Part of the problem is that you can't run STI or Ergo type shifters with the HS-66s. I've got them on my road tandem, and while they are an improvement over traditional canti's, running bar end shifters isn't everyone's cup of tea. Also, I don't find the hood shape on the HS-66s to be all that comfortable.

I suppose if you are running a single ring setup they woudn't be so bad, as you could run them on the left/front and a standard shifter for the rear.


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## Sasquatchcycles (Dec 2, 2007)

Thanks for responding...some good thoughts. It's true I run bar end shifters and run either a 1x8 or 2x8. I personally find the hoods to be just fine. I like bar ends for cross (along with 8 speed and sealed cables) because it is really muddy and wet here and I ride my cross bike year round on & off road.


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## seanwittmer (Dec 4, 2007)

Bang for the buck, it's hard to beat kore. I've run them all season with no problems.


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## bwcross (Sep 30, 2006)

Sasquatchcycles said:


> Though nobody commented on it when I first mentioned it, Magura HS-66s..hydraulic rim brakes with drop levers...none of the drawbacks others have mentioned about discs (except a little more weight than cable cantis) and these are rim brakes that work just fine in mud/snow/ice and also once set don't need maint. for years....why don't people like them? .


Modulation?


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## patineto (Nov 2, 2007)

colinr said:


> !
> 
> You can't just post pics of a crazy bike with double brakes without a little backstory!


Okay Okay..
the story is kind of simple, I grow up in the step mountains of Colombia, were we have downhills that can last forever (think the alps, dolomites, etc) in the old days I have two front tire blow out on my tandem do to rim over heat that end up blowing the tubes, nothing really happen but I made a point of never experience the same thing again.

I'm also very involve into motorcycles and I know the pro's and cons of riding on disc brakes.

In the bicycle case the rim brakes are the main brakes and the disc only come to play for really hard stopoing (not dragging since the over heat and glaze the rotors and pads.)

Also I did not want to confuse the porpuses of my posting, but running the brakes from the back side somehow produces similar results.









Same fork set up on my old red tandem with very aggressive tyres, plus a really strong 20mm axle









When I got this fork they were disc only so I weld the canti studs backwards, Somehow the brake pads, "Wedge" into the forks and the power delivery is very satisfactory









The next step is to weld another set of brake post studs to run a 29er type wheel, (tons of clearance, but will change head angle even more) but I'm being kind into the whole cross thing lattelly


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## patineto (Nov 2, 2007)

TWD said:


> What he didn't tell you is that he has 4 hands!!!!!
> 
> From what little you can see of the frame, it's a mountain tandem, which explains the need for massive braking power, but I'm not sure what advantage the v-brakes add to the 8" rotor hydros.
> 
> I suppose using both brakes at once would add power, but from the lever setup it looks like you'd have to use all four fingers to actuate both brakes.


Actually is Two finger stopping, well Four finger stopping..

Since the fingers are at the very end of the leverage ratio at the lever, is very little force require to make them work.

As I say before I mainly use the rim brakes for stoping.


















But I can also acess the disc very easy.


















the full braking force is achive when I press into the two levers at the same time.










As you can imagine, most of the time the dual brake set up is a little overkill, the first secret is to run this old school Hope brake system that can be run upside down, since is "Airless" (full of fluid) so bubble don't prosper.









The best side effect is that the engament of the brakes can be set using this little knob so is no Brake drag at all when riding on flats, uphill or at slow pace, but can be readjust in seconds, when riding downhill .loaded, etc.









Yeah none of this is exactly Cyclocross compatible since you will be launch forward like on a catapult ( A Normal fork will Bow under the pressure, even the Quick Release or the drop out can fail), well that is if the wheels can hold the intense traction, but is for sure a exercise of extreme stopping power.


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## elmar schrauth (Feb 19, 2007)

patineto said:


> I]
> 
> My Favorite are the DKG ,sadlly today almost impossible to find.
> [.



dkg        
i can not believe to read that in an us-forum 

how did you get this booster ??????????????

dkg is a friend, that just lives 10 miles from here .
he had a bike accident a few years ago .
and is not buildng bike parts anymore , because murphys law became true........
the doctors made big mistakes 
since 8 weeks he has a artifical shoulder 

when i will tell him that i have seen his boosters in an american forum ...................
he will not believe that.
by the way:
he was the first builder of booster i know


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## Sasquatchcycles (Dec 2, 2007)

bwcross said:


> Modulation?


Are you serious? Modulation is what Magura's reputation is specifically built-on for bikes with motors and without.


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## bwcross (Sep 30, 2006)

Sasquatchcycles said:


> Are you serious? Modulation is what Magura's reputation is specifically built-on for bikes with motors and without.


We're talking about their rim brakes, right?


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## Sasquatchcycles (Dec 2, 2007)

Sorry, I thought you were purposely yanking my chain. Yes, HS-33s are hydraulic rim brakes that come with drop levers and have very good modulation


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