# Red Hook Crit..... crash compilation....



## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

Red Hook Crit /// A Trimble Race Event /// June 8 2013

looking at the requirements:



> • *Track bikes required*
> 
> • Drop bars required


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

A reminder why racing crits with a $5000 bike is foolish unless you're rich.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

nOOky said:


> A reminder why racing crits with a $5000 bike is foolish unless you're rich.


IDK, I'd think brakes might have solved some of these.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Who knew??? ... Those white painted lines on the road can be slick? 

Every crash took place as they lost either the front or rear wheel on the white line. One would think they would get a clue about that early on. Such is life I guess.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

spade2you said:


> IDK, I'd think brakes might have solved some of these.


THese guys look like they were using clipless pedals.... that's a lot to do in a split second reaction.... unclip and hit the brakes at the same time.


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## PDex (Mar 23, 2004)

Well, we can laugh all we want but some went down hard:

Medical Fund Started for Joshua 'Pro' Hartman Who Crashed in Red Hook Criterium | cyclingreporter


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

tednugent said:


> THese guys look like they were using clipless pedals.... that's a lot to do in a split second reaction.... unclip and hit the brakes at the same time.


Could be. Something about a track bike crit doesn't seem like something I'd want to do and this is why. 

About 5-6 years ago, a friend of mine was at a crit and some Cat 5 used his fixie. This guy made a lot of friends because he made a move like that which took out about 1/2 the field. No serious injuries, but a lot of road rash and chewed up bikes.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

PDex said:


> Well, we can laugh all we want but some went down hard:
> 
> Medical Fund Started for Joshua 'Pro' Hartman Who Crashed in Red Hook Criterium | cyclingreporter


Ain't laughing. Based on the vid and the requirements, I wouldn't think this race was a good idea.


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

Wookiebiker said:


> Who knew??? ... Those white painted lines on the road can be slick?


Yup. We have similar problem in the annual SLC downtown crit. Except it's not close to being that bad. I slid a little on it once but manage to save it. 

Another bad culprit is those big square smooth "manhole" covers. I went down last year on one of those. The cop manning the corner told me in every category someone went down on that cover. Luckily it wasn't a high speed crash (top of climb) and only one dude ran me over. Usually they have it worst, but he was fine.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

spade2you said:


> Ain't laughing. Based on the vid and the requirements, I wouldn't think this race was a good idea.


Could just as well been clipped pedals while cornering than white paint if riding fixed gear.

Was it really fixed gear track bike? I couldn't really tell from the video. 

If so that's just plain stupid on flat terrain with crit corners and race promoter/organiser and relevant approval authorities need to be put up against a wall and .....


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

spade2you said:


> IDK, I'd think brakes might have solved some of these.


^^This. Lack of brakes and pedaling through the white paint probably contributed...


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Alex_Simmons/RST said:


> Could just as well been clipped pedals while cornering than white paint if riding fixed gear.
> 
> Was it really fixed gear track bike? I couldn't really tell from the video.
> 
> If so that's just plain stupid on flat terrain with crit corners and race promoter/organiser and relevant approval authorities need to be put up against a wall and .....


Mr. Nuge pointed out in his post that drop bar track bikes were required. The video also showed that this was at night. Even if I had a track bike there's not enough $ to convince me to do this "race". I didn't see anywhere that this was USAC sanctioned, either. Too many reasons that this race isn't a good idea.


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

Looks like another crit cluster( ), painted road, poor lighting (night race with camera flashes), track bikes (seriously WTF). Between this one and the Crystal City I'm wondering what the is going on.


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## AdamM (Jul 9, 2008)

A great example of a goat rodeo. Sorry for the folks that were injured.


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## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

I addition to using track bikes... night time doesn't help either. 

You'd figure AFTER the first crash... they'd be more careful after that turn. Lots of the crashes also occur from poor turn navigation it appears. Maybe they bottomed out their pedals.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

spade2you said:


> I didn't see anywhere that this was USAC sanctioned, either.


USAC requires a freewheel and brakes outside of a track, so this almost certainly wasn't USAC sanctioned (which means it didn't include USAC health coverage).


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

Here are all the rules and info for this race (never mind, it was in the original post). 

EVENT INFO /// Red Hook Crit /// June 8 2013

Guess I'll never be doing it, since I can't justify buying a track bike (no local velodrome). After watching video, many other reasons to not do it. 

Late this summer will be doing my first mountain Enduro race. That seems much safer in retrospect.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

asgelle said:


> USAC requires a freewheel and brakes outside of a track, so this almost certainly wasn't USAC sanctioned (which means it didn't include USAC health coverage).


It looked like some of the riders had a freewheel. I don't think I could clearly see any bikes with brakes.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

tednugent said:


> Red Hook Crit /// A Trimble Race Event /// June 8 2013
> 
> looking at the requirements:


5 finished, the rest were pulled or crashed


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

Poncharelli said:


> Here are all the rules and info for this race (never mind, it was in the original post).
> 
> EVENT INFO /// Red Hook Crit /// June 8 2013
> 
> ...


IMO, that is a completely irresponsible event and shows a complete lack of a duty of care for rider safety (which must be of paramount concern for any event organiser and official).


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Boy, IDK. There are certainly many types of racing where hazards and difficulties are part of the game. MTB races have rocks, slippy roots, narrow single track with steep drop-offs, etc. Road races have sharp corners, imperfect road surfaces, rain and other road hazards. Having the skill and judgement to deal with them are part of what the the race tests. This race is single speed at night on surface streets with their associated hazards (paint, manhole covers, curbs...). It's not like the participants are unaware of those facts.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

I doubt the fields will get any smaller. A fixed gear crit...is supposed to be _dangerous!_



Isn't that part of the allure of this race? It was an underground alley cat style race, which are known to be dangerous, at night in traffic. Now they've gone a little more mainstream with bigger fields and closed roads, so it's still a little dangerous.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Local Hero said:


> I doubt the fields will get any smaller. A fixed gear crit...is supposed to be _dangerous!_


It would appear they did a good job accomplishing that goal.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

...and the red hook crit also has races in Italy and Spain....

RED HOOK CRITERIUM | BICYCLE FILM FESTIVAL 2012 | MILANO on Vimeo

Red Hook Criterium Milano on Vimeo


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

tednugent said:


> ...and the red hook crit also has races in Italy and Spain....


Repeating stupidity doesn't make it any better.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

looigi said:


> Boy, IDK. There are certainly many types of racing where hazards and difficulties are part of the game. MTB races have rocks, slippy roots, narrow single track with steep drop-offs, etc. Road races have sharp corners, imperfect road surfaces, rain and other road hazards. Having the skill and judgement to deal with them are part of what the the race tests. This race is single speed at night on surface streets with their associated hazards (paint, manhole covers, curbs...). It's not like the participants are unaware of those facts.


The difference with those other events is:
i. the likelihood of a crash is significantly less and there are efforts made to make courses as safe as possible and/or adjust if conditions warrant (e.g. road and track racing),
ii. where crashes are more likely (e.g. BMX) riders are required to have sufficient protective kit,
iii. in races with greater tests of skill (e.g. downhill MTB) a crash is generally only going to affect the one rider crashing, not take out everyone else (and before you say road race, refer to point i.)


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Cycling is inherently dangerous. Every rider knows this. 

That said, I will not be contributing to the injured cyclist's medical fund (which has raised over $32,000 at the time of my posting).


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Local Hero said:


> Cycling is inherently dangerous. Every rider knows this.


If it were as dangerous as this race, most of us wouldn't be able to afford to race due to bike repair and medical bills.


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## Kristatos (Jan 10, 2008)

I guess those guys all know why velodromes have banked corners now.


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## WhatGoodIsAName (May 18, 2012)

For people use to doing ally cat races (see Line of Sight or other Lucas Brunelle videos) this was the pinnacle of safety. At least everyone appeared to be wearing a helmet.

Makes me wonder if these kind of events were part of the motivation behind the UCI/USAC halted attempt to disallow riders who participate in unsanctioned events. Though with the number of crashes we'll see track bike crits as a new event in the X-Games


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## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

Ok I'll pitch in some actual info on this race opposed to the speculation that has been going around.

First off, these guys aren't noobs. Many of them are Cat 1s, not 2s, 1s. In fact the guy that did win, NEIL BEZDEK, is an ex-pro(Smart Stop Mountain Khakis). 

Second, doesn't everyone pedal through corners in a normal crit anyways? And on top of that, many of these guys are riding Fixed gear bikes directly designed for Fixed Geared Criteriums with less BB drop than your average SuperSix or Tarmac.

Third, it's the Red Hook District. I used to live down the street. The roads there are very slick. Lot of diesel. Not to mention a few corners(ones you didn't see) are cobble. A fair number of guys flatted.


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## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

CabDoctor said:


> First off, these guys aren't noobs. Many of them are Cat 1s, not 2s, 1s. In fact the guy that did win, NEIL BEZDEK, is an ex-pro(Smart Stop Mountain Khakis).


Joshua "Pro" Hartman Medical Expenses by Tonya Miller - GoFundMe

Joshua... his wonderful fund... it says he's CAT 3 Track and CAT 5 Road. 

Either they're racing together, or they're racing per CAT. Either way, the course is stupid dangerous.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Yikes, I didn't realize that Joshua Hartman is only 15. 
The Official Website - USA Cycling


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## WhatGoodIsAName (May 18, 2012)

CabDoctor said:


> First off, these guys aren't noobs. Many of them are Cat 1s, not 2s, 1s. In fact the guy that did win, NEIL BEZDEK, is an ex-pro(Smart Stop Mountain Khakis).


Just my observations but this race appears to be an incredibly mixed field. Of the 100 starters 95 were either lapped, had a mechanical or crashed, and less than 30 riders finished half the race distance. Of the 5 riders who finished, 3 were over a minute behind (in danger of being lapped). Results


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

WhatGoodIsAName said:


> Just my observations but this race appears to be an incredibly mixed field. Of the 100 starters 95 were either lapped, had a mechanical or crashed, and less than 30 riders finished half the race distance. Of the 5 riders who finished, 3 were over a minute behind (in danger of being lapped). Results


Perhaps it's not too much of a stretch that a "few" good riders were taken out by boneheads in creashes.


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## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

CleavesF said:


> Joshua "Pro" Hartman Medical Expenses by Tonya Miller - GoFundMe
> 
> Joshua... his wonderful fund... it says he's CAT 3 Track and CAT 5 Road.
> 
> Either they're racing together, or they're racing per CAT. Either way, the course is stupid dangerous.


They are together. But they had to qualify. Basically, a series of 50 person crits with timing chips. Top 100 laps times made the cut to the official race. 

It should be noted that Hartman crashed trying to qualify and not in the actual race.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

My take is if they can get the proper coverage to stage that race and people wanna do it let em. I think idea is beyond stupid and I love technical crits and race track, but that is my choice. 

While I petal through lots of turns there are plenty that I don't/can't/won't so I like having the ability to not, so I have no interesting racing my track bike anywhere but a velodrome and flat TTs.

As far as unsantioned racing through traffic **** those guys six ways from sunday.


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