# Carbon Fiber Used?



## Timpaynter (Jan 8, 2016)

On my budget, a used carbon fiber is likely the only kind of carbon fiber bike I will ever own. Some say, if it has to be used, best pass and opt for a sturdier material, as defects in carbon fiber are oft difficult to spot, and rarely guaranteed with subsequent owners.

Have you had luck with cabon fiber? Any tips?

Thanks!


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## tommybike (Dec 30, 2015)

They always advise against it but I did it for a TT bike. Mainly thought was it is less likely to be crashed and a new one is very pricy. A wheel was bad but the bike has been great and a steal at the price.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Timpaynter said:


> On my budget, a used carbon fiber is likely the only kind of carbon fiber bike I will ever own. Some say, if it has to be used, best pass and opt for a sturdier material, as *defects in carbon fiber are oft difficult to spot, and rarely guaranteed with subsequent owners.
> *
> Have you had luck with cabon fiber? Any tips?
> 
> Thanks!


I would change the bold statement to... 

_...internal defects in CF can only be seen with infrared/ Imaging equipment, and are warrantied only to the original owner.
_
As you can (and most likely will) see, not all subscribe to the 'stay clear' philosophy. My best advice is to weigh risks (monetary loss) with benefits (is CF worth it?) and proceed with caution.


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

Never had a problem with three used carbon frames. Buy from the owner and ask them if they crashed it. If it has repairs i would walk away. All depends on whether it has been loved or abused, kinda like partners.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

I have owned 4 used carbon fiber bikes over the years and not had an issue with any of them. It is not hard to find a lightly used bike and save 60+% over buying new.

Yes, look it over and ask if its been crashed or repaired.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Any used frame of any material could potentially be cracked, so I don't agree with the anti-carbon folks.

Personally I've had 3 "used" carbon frames from the bay - Supersix and Look 585 like new and a heavily used BMC SLC01 which I only brought because I really wanted the frame and in 2 years of looking it was the first I'd seen in my size. All under $1,000. All OK.

With reputable sellers, and they do exist, there should not be a problem.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

It just comes down to determining whether you are willing to take the risk and that's something none of us can really answer for you. You could buy it and then send it to a vendor like Calfree to have checked over for damage. I know they offer that kind of thing for a fee. That would cut into your savings a bit, but give you some piece of mind that it's not going to fall apart on you due to some hidden defect. Like others have said, being selective about who you buy from can help a lot as well.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

I will also add this. I have had the opportunity to ride, test, and own some solid carbon bikes over the years, but my most recent purchase was an alloy Caad10. In my experience, there is not a huge drop off between many carbon bikes and a Cannondale Caad10/Caad12 or a Specialized Allez Smartweld. They really are quality road bikes. You can get a new Caad10 frameset on Ebay for $500-$600 or a complete bike for approximately $1000. You could even get a current year model in a bike shop with a fit and a warranty for not much more than that. 

These bikes, upgraded with the right wheels and components over time are about as good as anything. Are they different than high end carbon fiber in some ways, sure, but is that difference a big deal for most cyclists on most rides? No. I highly recommend considering them as an option if the budget is tight. They are a great value. 

Another affordable carbon option is the Fuji Transonic 2.8 from Performance bike. I have seen it on sale for as low as $1300 with Shimano 105. You could probably get it even cheaper if you catch one of their big sales. It's another good value for the budget conscious. I took it and the 2.7 on a test ride and thought it was really good for the price. There are reviews on RBR and elsewhere online for all of these bikes if you end up being interested.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

agree with rash as well.

I'd say to OP there are a couple of false assumptions embedded in your very short question.

You assume that carbon fiber is not a "sturdy material". false.

You appear to believe that there are more guarantees with second owners of frames of other materials. false again.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Here's a few links for new high performance options on the more affordable end. You could upgrade wheels and components on any of these bikes over time and have something that is great for years to come. (there is absolutely nothing wrong with going used though if you find something you are comfortable pursuing):

Specialized Bicycle Components

Specialized Bicycle Components

http://www.cannondale.com/en/USA/Bi...parentid=be69932e-bbe8-4f5c-9a1d-b3a386243e89

New 2015 Cannondale Caad 10 Road Framesets Frame 56cm Full Carbon Fork Bicycle | eBay

New 2013 Cannondale Caad 10 5 Road Bike 54cm Shimano 105 Group $1730 Retail | eBay

Fuji Transonic 2.8 Road Bike- 2015 - Performance Exclusive

Fuji Altamira 2.5 Road Bike - 2014

Fuji Gran Fondo 2.3 C Road Bike - 2014

Review: Cannondale CAAD10 Ultegra | road.cc

Review: Specialized Allez Race E5 Smartweld Road Frame | Average Cyclist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtuOfPNMfi8

Fuji Transonic 2.5 review | Cyclist


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

More:

https://www.coloradocyclist.com/road-bikes

Road Bike Brands | Racing & Flatbar Bikes | Bike Nashbar


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

Then again, the only frame failure that I ever had (getting destroyed by a car aside) was on an aluminum frame.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

If you can trust the seller there's no reason not to.

Think about it, if CF being 'used' was a problem you couldn't get a new one either (unless you only planned to use it once).

Buying from someone you don't know and might not disclose the bikes history is another topic but that's not unique to CF. It's really hard to imagine "internal damage" happening without showing external signs but I suppose it's possible.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I think it's important to point out that any frame material can suffer a failure (fatigue, impact, defect), but (generally speaking) alloys fail differently than CF. And alu can fail differently than steel. 

CF is the only popular material that (because of it's inherent structure) can better hide trouble spots and needs special equipment to detect them. 

Rashadabd offers some good options that (IMO) are better than buying used CF. Bottom line, ask yourself if you're really getting 'more' buying used CF.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Jay Strongbow said:


> If you can trust the seller there's no reason not to.
> 
> Think about it, if CF being 'used' was a problem you couldn't get a new one either (unless you only planned to use it once).
> 
> Buying from someone you don't know and might not disclose the bikes history is another topic but that's not unique to CF. It's really hard to imagine "internal damage" happening without showing external signs but I suppose it's possible.


If the seller has no knowledge of the defect, he may be well intentioned, but the defect still exists. 

New gets the buyer a warranty, so (save for personal injury from a catastrophic failure) the risk is minimized.

Internal damage signals a weak point in the CF structure, which can lead to failure. Similar to stress cracks in alu. They may go undetected for a time, then fail. However, as I posted earlier, alloys fail differently and those failures are easier to spot, in general.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> Bottom line, ask yourself if you're really getting 'more' buying used CF.


Or new CF for that matter. 
Plenty of carbon fiber frames are great.....but so are plenty of steel and Ti ones.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Jay Strongbow said:


> Or new CF for that matter.
> Plenty of carbon fiber frames are great.....but so are plenty of steel and Ti ones.


Absolutely.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> Absolutely.


I agree with these two. Instead of focusing solely on frame material, it might be best to focus on the overall quality of the bikes that are in a price range you can afford. My recommendation is to just get the "best" overall bike you can in the broadest sense of the word. Give points for every factor that matters to you including being new.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

PJ352 said:


> If the seller has no knowledge of the defect, he may be well intentioned, but the defect still exists.
> 
> New gets the buyer a warranty, so (save for personal injury from a catastrophic failure) the risk is minimized.
> 
> Internal damage signals a weak point in the CF structure, which can lead to failure. Similar to stress cracks in alu. They may go undetected for a time, then fail. However, as I posted earlier, alloys fail differently and those failures are easier to spot, in general.


The world is not littered with catastrophic failures of carbon frames. 

The attached is a list of recalls from 2013 and 2014. Main risk seems to be from forks breaking. Recalls are not limited to carbon by any means.

Bicycle Failures, Injuries, Fatality 2013 to 2014 | Cyclists International


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Blue CheeseHead said:


> The world is not littered with catastrophic failures of carbon frames.
> 
> The attached is a list of recalls from 2013 and 2014. Main risk seems to be from forks breaking. Recalls are not limited to carbon by any means.
> 
> Bicycle Failures, Injuries, Fatality 2013 to 2014 | Cyclists International


Aren't those reports enough though? Why take the risk at all if you don't have to in order to get a good bike?


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

It's funny how some people who are afraid of carbon for reasons to do with safety recommend 'alternatives' that come with a carbon fork. 

Not necessarily referring to this thread but if someone doesn't trust carbon (fair enough) I don't know whey they'd be okay with having the most critical to safety part of the bike (fork) made of it.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Jay Strongbow said:


> It's funny how some people who are afraid of carbon for reasons to do with safety recommend 'alternatives' that come with a carbon fork.
> 
> Not necessarily referring to this thread but if someone doesn't trust carbon (fair enough) I don't know whey they'd be okay with having the most critical to safety part of the bike (fork) made of it.


I don't think anyone here is saying that carbon bikes in and of themselves are unsafe. I love a number of carbon bikes and plan to add one to my Caad10 down the road. What we are clearly questioning is why buy a USED carbon bike or any bike when you don't have to? Unless it's something special or an incredible deal from a seller you trust, why do it?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Rashadabd said:


> I don't think anyone here is saying that carbon bikes in and of themselves are unsafe. I love a number of carbon bikes and plan to add one to my Caad10 down the road. What we are clearly questioning is why buy a USED carbon bike or any bike when you don't have to? Unless it's something special or an incredible deal from a seller you trust, why do it?


Exactly. Nowhere in this thread do I see anyone raising red flags or fear mongering on imminent CF frame failures. 

More, it's a "consider all aspects before proceeding" conversation. 

Re: CF forks, my attitude remains the same. Buy new, not used.


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## bigjohnla (Mar 29, 2010)

I have carbon, aluminum and steel bikes and really like all of them. In general, a really bad crash is going to mess all of them up. 

Both "new" bikes I bought were close outs from the previous year. You can save a lot of money this way. Usually about 25%. Make sure it fits you. 

When buying a used bike of any kind, look it over really well. Take it for a nice long ride. If something doesn't feel right, don't buy it. Once again make sure it fits you properly. I have seen several guys buy bikes that were too big (bad) or too small (worse) just because they were "great" deals. If you need a 56 and buy a 54 or 58 thinking 'what difference does 2 cm make. 

If you don't catch bike fever and jump on the first thing you see you can get a great deal on a used bike.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

bigjohnla said:


> If you don't catch bike fever and jump on the first thing you see you can get a great deal on a used bike.


Met a guy on the road yesterday and we chatted and road back together to close to where we each started.

He had a new disc Roubaix he just got and this was the third ride. It was also his third bike he said. First two mistakes FWIW. Still had #2 and does not ride it at all.

He said he got the others because he did not want to spend more than $600-700.00.

Not the first time I heard that story either....


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## tommybike (Dec 30, 2015)

robt57 said:


> Met a guy on the road yesterday and we chatted and road back together to close to where we each started.
> 
> He had a new disc Roubaix he just got and this was the third ride. It was also his third bike he said. First two mistakes FWIW. Still had #2 and does not ride it at all.
> 
> ...


That would describe my first 2 bikes. But I would not have known what I wanted had I not spent a lot of time on what I did not. And they still have a purpose. The first is a beater bike that sits indoors on Rollers and the second is the rain, winter, gravel, and good bike in the shop bike. Also works for casual rides with slower friends.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> Exactly. Nowhere in this thread do I see anyone raising red flags or fear mongering on imminent CF frame failures.
> 
> More, it's a "consider all aspects before proceeding" conversation.
> 
> Re: CF forks, my attitude remains the same. Buy new, not used.


Hence the words "Not necessarily referring to this thread". If it doesn't apply there's no need to be defensive.

I felt it was on topic, despite not being in direct response to anything someone said here, because if the guy has been looking around he undoubtably will or has heard carbon fear mongering and he should realize that if he's going to buy into it he needs to consider that most of the fear mongers are riding a carbon fork so perhaps he should take it was a grain of salt.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Jay Strongbow said:


> Hence the words "Not necessarily referring to this thread". If it doesn't apply there's no need to be defensive.
> 
> I felt it was on topic, despite not being in direct response to anything someone said here, because if the guy has been looking around he undoubtably will or has heard carbon fear mongering and he should realize that if he's going to buy into it he needs to consider that most of the fear mongers are riding a carbon fork so perhaps he should take it was a grain of salt.


My comment was actually (indirectly, through Rashadabd) in reference to Blue CheeseHead's comment re: catastrophic CF failures. In retrospect I should have clarified, so my bad.

I agree that your post was on topic, and contributed a point of view to the convo. Your posts most always do, IMO.

I did offer an opinion on CF forks. That being, buy new.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> My comment was actually (indirectly, through Rashadabd) in reference to Blue CheeseHead's comment re: catastrophic CF failures. In retrospect I should have clarified, so my bad.
> 
> I agree that your post was on topic, and contributed a point of view to the convo. Your posts most always do, IMO.
> 
> I did offer an opinion on CF forks. That being, buy new.


Thank you. A bit of a misinterpretation on my part I guess.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

I don't know whether the OP is even reading this anymore, but here's another affordable (relatively) carbon option I came across:

Trek Emonda S 4 - Bike Doctor of Waldorf


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Blue CheeseHead said:


> The world is not littered with catastrophic failures of carbon frames. [/url]


Here here! When you think about it, we're all riding on used carbon fiber bikes. Aside from what a lot of people think, carbon fiber is pretty tough stuff. I wouldn't worry about buying a used carbon bike. If its been crashed, it will be easy to see.


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

There is no problem with used CF bikes. I've owned two and both are fine, my latest one I believe actually served as a backup racing team bike. The problem with buying used is not that you'll get a damaged bike, but rather that you'll buy an incorrect bike for your size, flexibility, ability and purpose.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Are any of us truly able to say that all used bikes of any material are fine/safe, etc? Just a question... I say make your own determination based on each individual bike, the manufacturer, and the seller whether it is used or new.


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## nigel91 (May 16, 2012)

They're making airliners, formula one and performance road cars out of carbon fiber and they are designed to take lot of stress over a long time. Some bike manufacturers give lifetime warranties which even though they often only apply to the original buyer suggest they think the frame will last!!

I like the vibration reduction of carbon frames/bars/saddles not to mention the light weight & great handling - I've had two new and three used carbon bikes and I think if you can get a good one used, and inspect it well, at a sensible price that is my preference.

Good luck!!


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## Timpaynter (Jan 8, 2016)

This kind of live experience makes me feel a lot better about buying carbon fiber...


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## Wuaname (Mar 5, 2013)

How old would be too old? I sm looking at a used 2011 cf Roubaix. Looks immaculate

EDIT its a 2011, not 2001. Typo


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Wuaname said:


> How old would be too old? I sm looking at a used 2001 cf Roubaix. Looks immaculate


It's not like it spoils. I've got a carbon Colnago from 2001 that I still ride from time to time. 

I recently bought a used Litespeed frame and fork off ebay. The seller was local and handed me the frame with the fork still attached. I took it home and couldn't for the life of me, get the nasty old headset off. So I took it down to my LBS. Unlike the Performance store across town, where the mechanics are kids, the guys at this place have been working on bikes, and riding bikes for decades. So the mechanic I usually deal with is there and says he'll take a stab at it. The fork is a carbon Reynolds Ouzo Pro. He monkeys around with it, whacks it with a hammer several times, adds oil here and there, and finally gets it out. I said that I hear a lot of people who consider carbon fiber to be fairly delicate stuff. He laughs and says no, it's pretty tough stuff.


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## Shuffleman (Sep 4, 2013)

Wuaname said:


> How old would be too old? I sm looking at a used 2001 cf Roubaix. Looks immaculate


I am not sure where this idea came from that one should avoid used carbon. I would caution you to avoid bikes that have been abused regardless of material. Bikes are extremely durable and tough. You hear of very little failure whether it is carbon, steel, ti or aluminum.
If the bike is in good shape and well cared for than go for it. My bikes hang on the wall and are kept in immaculate shape. I would buy them used. If you go to a guys house and they are lying on their side and are dinged up than I may walk. It is really no different than buying a car. Check it out. Can you get burned? Of course. Does it work out 99.5% of the time if you pay attention? Yes.
I have personally only known one person to have cracked his carbon frame and that was in a pretty bad accident. Upon inspecting the bike after he was carted off in the ambulance, we could see the crack as it was obvious. 
Either way, just inspect it well or even do it at a LBS. They will usually go over it for you.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

All bikes have potential to have hidden problems, even without having been abused, but carbon fiber is by far a much higher risk.

These tubes are designed to take a very specific type of stress in a very specific way. Any other kind of stress can cause damage (some of which you would not easily be able to see).



I just happened to stumble on BMC's 'Carbon Care' website the other day. Take a look at all of the things that can damage a carbon tube. 

I realize a lot of what is on that site is CYA stuff, but having been on the recieving end of 'minor' damage to a CF frame as a result of a minor garage incident, I'd strongly encourage anyone to use great caution when considering to buy one used.

Carbon Care - BMC Switzerland

*Carbon Care Instructions*

Bicycle frames made out of carbon fibres are high performance frames. The tube dimensions, wall thickness and orientation of the fibres are specially designed to withstand the stresses that can occur during its intended use and guarantee high comfort and stiffness to give you the best ride possible. Whilst BMC frames are designed to exceed EN safety requirements, the frames are not designed to withstand all foreseen forces. They are not designed to survive all collisions or crashes undamaged and can be delicate for punctual pressures.
*Please respect the following instructions:*

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On superlight frames, the tubes can be slightly deformed with pressure from your fingers. While this is normal, please avoid excessive or repeated pressure because this could lead to damages.
Avoid contact with hard, sharp or pointed objects. Don’t lean your bike with the top tube against a pole or corner of a building.


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When using a work stand, don’t clamp the bike on any frame tube, fix the bike at the seatpost or fork dropouts (with the dedicated work stand) only.
While your bike is fixed (by the seatpost) on the work stand, avoid high side loads when replacing the bottom bracket as a lever effect can occur creating damage to the seattube or frame.


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When transporting your bike with a car rack, only fix your bike at the seatpost or fork dropout and never clamp the bike on any frame tube.


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Carbon frames are not suited to use on home trainers with a fixed rear axle. When the wheel cannot move then the excessive loads on the dropouts can damage the frame.


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Do not clamp any children’s seat or trailer couplings on your carbon frame.


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If using soft travel cases or bike boxes to transport your bike please ensure the frame is well protected (using soft foam wrap) to ensure no components or external pressure can puncture or damage the frame. Please note that the BMC warranty does not cover any transport damage.


</article>


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## Zachariah (Jan 29, 2009)

I find many pre-owned CF frames were pampered. One I had for 3 years was disclosed as crashed, but held up great and I got it dirt cheap.


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