# What do you think of the Moots Vamoots?



## the sky above tar below

There seems to be a mystique about the Moots Vamoots road bike. The owners rave about it, saying the welds are impeccable and the ride quality is superb. The owners say they have gladly sold their Litespeeds, OCLVs, and Merlins now that they have their Vamoots.

Does anyone have an opinion about the Moots Vamoots road bike?


----------



## Ti-Boy

*Moots Vamoots*

Maybe it's mystique, maybe marketing, but the ride is outstanding. You wont find better people (some just as good like Parlee) to deal with than the people at Moots. Cannot go wrong with a Moots.


----------



## Utah CragHopper

I love mine. Best ti craftsmanship in the biz.

The company only makes about 800 frames a year. The founder has a long history of cycling, unlike a big ti frame manufacturer, which shall remain nameless, that was just set up as an additional profit center when the suits noticed that some of their ti tubing was being bought to make bike frames.


----------



## Bixe

*Vamoots*

Pride and excellent craftsmanship add up to a superb ride. If you are ever close to Steamboat Springs, stop by Kent Erikson's place. More on mine here....


----------



## ronvdp

*Vamoots*

I got a sweet deal on one barely used in the classifieds here. My total outlay was $1500 for a Vamoots with DA10, Ksyrium SSC SL's after swapping the parts and selling a C'dale R3000 which I also got a sweet deal on. The R3000 is an incredibly stiff and fast frame and is great for racing but I never felt very comfortable riding it for more than 20 miles. I had tried several different bikes and was planning on getting a new frame in Ti or CF but wasn't that impressed with the CF offerings. I wanted the stiffness in the BB without the harsh ride. I got that and much more from the Vamoots. It has such a great feel to it, it seems to be perfectly balanced and at the same time handles like it's on rails. Most of the other bikes I tried -all high end from various manufacturers-had good acceleration and some had decent dampening but the perfect mix was not there. It may not seem like a big deal until you've tried one. It feels like an extension of your body, especially when turning. I will admit that I am not a racer but do spend a lot of time riding bikes and know how a good one feels. Just my $.02 but if it was stolen I would buy another at full price.


----------



## jcthomasjr

*Bought a Moots Vamoots in October*

I bought a new Vamoots in October and I enjoy riding the bike very much. It was not cheap but I have owned my trusty steel bike for 14 years and will probably own the Moots for as long. It rides considerably better than my steel bike and I think the steel bike rides great. The Moots is stiffer but it is not a harsh stiff. It is noticeably smoother over some of the rougher roads I ride on. One road in particular was repaved last year and when I rode it with my steel frame I thought, man, this is ridiculous because I was rattling all over the place and felt like I could not get into a rhythm. Well, with the Vamoots I can cruise more easily over this road. I was enjoying the bike so much the first time on this rough road that I did not even think about the road. Then one day I thought how smooth the Vamoots was compared to the other bike.

The other thing I have noticed is that I can ride the Vamoots faster downhill. I have a few hills in the area where I can easily hit 45+ mph. My steel bike would start a dangerous wobble around 44mph sometimes, but the Moots is very solid. It took me a little while to get used to it because it is a quick steerer and when I am descending I have learned to trust the bike and have posted overall higher speeds on the Moots.

Anyways, I like the bike a lot. I have always wanted a titanium bike and really can't explain it. I test rode other bikes but I like the Vamoots. It is a very well built bike which rides very nicely in my opinion. For reference I ride a 53.5cm frame and weight around 165.

Cheers.


----------



## EazyBe

*it's all about he benjamins*



the sky above said:


> There seems to be a mystique about the Moots Vamoots road bike. The owners rave about it, saying the welds are impeccable and the ride quality is superb. The owners say they have gladly sold their Litespeeds, OCLVs, and Merlins now that they have their Vamoots.
> 
> Does anyone have an opinion about the Moots Vamoots road bike?


I've never met a person on a Moots who was not IN LOVE with it. I am now convinced that they derive their love from the fact that they've spent a fat wad of cash on what may be their last bike everr, and that they have no choice but to love it hard. 

However, I don't doubt that it's a good ride. There's just proably similar rides out there that cost @ least 1/3 less. I saw what kinda work goes into a Moots @ the factory; it's no wonder they cost so damn much.


----------



## LiteSpeeder

*Vamoot is simple the best*

I purchased the Vamoots SL 6/4 frame last year and it's a rocketship. It climbs and accelerates extremely well, and the build quality is magnificent. I could have purchased any Ti bike and I extensively test rode serotta, merlin, seven and litespeed ti bikes before I made my choice. The Vamoots SL was just better in all categories when compared to the others, and my compact frame came in at 2.5 lbs.

You have to test ride it. One test ride and you're hooked! Ti manufacturers including Moots talk about double butted tubes or geometrically enhanced tubing or tapered tubes and the list goes on and on. This is just marketing crap. What really counts is how the frame handles and performs, drivetrain stiffness, build quality, how well it climbs and accelerates and ride quality. And my Vamoots SL excels in all of these categories. What can I say? Test ride one but be prepared to sell off your other bikes because one test ride will hook you for life. It's the ultimate bike.


----------



## yzfrr11

*I thought your legs cause the bike to accelerate?*



LiteSpeeder said:


> What really counts is how well it climbs and accelerates.


It always kills me when someone says that "this bike accelerates fast, or that bike climbs fast". It is the legs that do that for you - and you can't buy that.


----------



## blurry

yzfrr11 said:


> It always kills me when someone says that "this bike accelerates fast, or that bike climbs fast". It is the legs that do that for you - and you can't buy that.


don't you feel the geometry and weight help make a make a bike accelerate or help make a bike a more efficient climber? i agree with you, your legs are the TRUE engine but a bike can definately make a difference.


----------



## jcthomasjr

EazyBe said:


> I've never met a person on a Moots who was not IN LOVE with it. I am now convinced that they derive their love from the fact that they've spent a fat wad of cash on what may be their last bike everr, and that they have no choice but to love it hard.
> 
> However, I don't doubt that it's a good ride. There's just proably similar rides out there that cost @ least 1/3 less. I saw what kinda work goes into a Moots @ the factory; it's no wonder they cost so damn much.


Actually, as far as the price of high end bikes go, the Moots Vamoots is not that expensive. The Vamoots SL goes for about 1k more than the Vamoots, but the Vamoots is less expensive than some Merlins, Litespeeds, Serottas, Pinarellos, Colnagos, and Independs Fabrications. So the fat wad of cash you refer to is not really that fat.

Sure, there are other great rides out there and probably some for less money. I feel like you get what you pay for and I have no problem with what I paid for my Vamoots.


----------



## Lab Worker

if the bike didn't matter, wouldnt' we all be riding 100 year old fixies?


----------



## mt.biker

I've never heard anything bad about a Moot's bike, though I've ridden on a few and not fallen madly in love with them. So i've never had the urge to buy one and own it myself.

I have no doubt they are well constructed but I do wonder if the people ridding are more in love that there are only 800 made and so its like owning an exotic car then the actual ride quality.

The consitruction is what sets them appart though i couldnt tell you ride quality does.


----------



## Utah CragHopper

mt.biker said:


> I have no doubt they are well constructed but I do wonder if the people ridding are more in love that there are only 800 made and so its like owning an exotic car then the actual ride quality.
> 
> The consitruction is what sets them appart though i couldnt tell you ride quality does.


The dirty secret of the cycling world is that once you pay $1500 for a bike you
get everything you need to ride the Tour De France. Any money you pay on
top of that is for uniquess, pride of ownership, proof that you are a connoisseur,
etc. If you pay more than $1500 and you don't get those things then you got
ripped off. That's why high end Trek's are grossly over priced.

Moots offers everything you should be getting when you throw down the big
bucks. And because of their small production run you don't get pegged as
some Yuppie poser who reads Outside or Men's Journal and bought a Seven.


----------



## colocraig

*Moots vs. Serotta*

I'm purchasing a Ti bike, and test rode the standard Vamoots frame in my size. I'm not into racing anymore, and to me it was too tight and twitchy. Very short chain stays and fast handling. The ride was actually quite comfortable, though. So for my use, I would need to go with a custom geometry option with them which would raise the price another $400. So would be talking about $2800 for a non-butted frame with Ti seat stays.

With Serotta (Concours) I can get a BUTTED Ti frame with Ti stays for $2400 and with carbon stays for $2700. And given Serotta's greater experience with custom fits and frames, for me it was a no-brainer to go with a Serotta. My impression is that the Moots is very nicely constructed. But at a pricing point ABOVE Serotta, it would seem to have limited appeal.


----------



## jcthomasjr

Utah CragHopper said:


> The dirty secret of the cycling world is that once you pay $1500 for a bike you
> get everything you need to ride the Tour De France. Any money you pay on
> top of that is for uniquess, pride of ownership, proof that you are a connoisseur,
> etc. If you pay more than $1500 and you don't get those things then you got
> ripped off. That's why high end Trek's are grossly over priced.
> 
> Moots offers everything you should be getting when you throw down the big
> bucks. And because of their small production run you don't get pegged as
> some Yuppie poser who reads Outside or Men's Journal and bought a Seven.


How did you come to know about the secret? Could you please elaborate and provide facts that this $1500 price point is what you say it is. I do not own a Trek but why do you think high end Trek's are overpriced (I am assuming you are talking about the OCLV frames)? People should buy the bike that they think looks good, rides good, can afford (or can't afford but want to spend whatever it costs anyways) and not worry about what label they are pegged with. I myself would never consider the owner of a Seven bicycle to be an Outside or Men's Journal reader. I would consider them to be the owner of a very nice bicycle who chose the Seven for whatever reason led them to choosing that particular type of bike. That is the way it should be and hopefully is the way it is. 

The thing is, when you get to a point where you decide you are gonig to spend a lot of money on a bicycle, I suspect that most people could care less what other people think because by being able to spend a lot of money there are a lot of choices. That means you can be more descriminating and not just settle for something but actually purchase a bicycle that suits your riding needs or purchase a bicycle that you have always lusted after for whatever reason.

Moots offers a bicycle that Kent Erickson thinks is a quality product that meets his demands for how a bicycle should be built. I am sure he would admit that there are plenty of other bicycle manufacturers out there that he feels builds a quality bicycle. Moots just offers another choice which means as consumers we can shop around and the different builders must compete for our interest in their product. That is a good thing. I think Moots builds a very high quality, well aligned, great riding, and very durable road frame in the Vamoots. That is why I purchased one. If I did not like the way it rides or did not think it was well built I would have purchased something different because there are plenty of choices out there and there are plenty of other fantastic bicycles out there.


----------



## TrailNut

*yes, i desire them all: moots, sachs, vanilla*



the sky above said:


> There seems to be a mystique about the Moots Vamoots road bike. The owners rave about it, saying the welds are impeccable and the ride quality is superb. The owners say they have gladly sold their Litespeeds, OCLVs, and Merlins now that they have their Vamoots.
> 
> Does anyone have an opinion about the Moots Vamoots road bike?


it shall be mine, my precioussss...

as soon as i make up my mind which one is more cool: *Moots* Vamoots ti. or *Sach*'s lugged steel. at least i wounln't need to wait months and months for a *Moots*. hmmm then again there's *Vanilla*

since i have a steel bike fetish, i'd get a *Sach* or *Vanilla* frame and then adorn with *Moots* layback seatpost and any other titianium "jewlery" componants i can accessorize with. oh course, i'd have to utilize *Phil Wood*'s ti.BB and ti. hubs and *Bold* ti. skewers.

my exotic Italian *Viner* light steel bike with full *Campy* 10s cost me less than $1900 new, and that's included the tax and shipping: thanks to Gary & Tom. my point here is that while many of us can spend far more, we do not need to spend much more than $1500 to get a fine fast road bike. having repeated this trite & obvious point, some us can and will get the bike that we want. as functionally beautiful titanium frames go, *Moots* is the most chic.


----------



## Utah CragHopper

jcthomasjr said:


> Could you please elaborate and provide facts that this $1500 price point is what you say it is...


The $1500 price point comes about because that is about the price where you get good construction quality and good, durable components with a decent overall weight--I'm actually being generous, the true price point is probably about $1200, especially with the advent of all the Taiwanese frames that are available. Any money you pay over that goes for intangible qualities that are inherent in the luxury good market.

High end Treks are overpriced because for the same amount of money you could get something built by any number of small builders who will pay more attention to detail, and you get something that is relatively unique, rather than something that everyone and his dog owns. Plus you get to display your personal taste rather than be lumped in with the mob of dudes who went to the nearest bike shop and bought the most expensive Trek on the floor. That is not to say that Trek doesn't build a good machine--they do. They just lack any reasons to pay big bucks for one.

My dig against Seven is in jest, sort of. The Men's Journal/Outside magazine reading/untanned yuppie crowd seems to be the market they have targetted. It might attract some people to buy their frames; it does the opposite for me.

I think your assertion that once you decide to spend a lot of money on a bike, you could care less about what people think is highly suspect. The entire high end market is built upon selling things people don't need. The bling bling factor is huge, as is one upping the Joneses. For a couple hundred dollars I can buy a mechanical watch as good as a Rolex. Tag Heur doesn't even make their own movements like Rolex does and you can find the exact same internals in a watch that costs a fraction of the price of a Tag. Do you think people buy Rolexes and Tags, the yuppie equivalent, because of they don't care what people think?


----------



## ejeaston

*Speedgoat reputable?*

I'm debating buying a Vamoots Compact from Speedgoat.
Anyone have any suggestions or experience w/ them, or suggestions on building up the bike?

Thanks in advance for any "questions, comments, or snide remarks,"


----------



## cdmc

Speedgoat is a reputable shop. I think their prices may be higher than some others but I have only heard good things about their service.


----------



## jh_on_the_cape

Utah CragHopper said:


> The dirty secret of the cycling world is that once you pay $1500 for a bike you
> get everything you need to ride the Tour De France. Any money you pay on
> top of that is for uniquess, pride of ownership, proof that you are a connoisseur,
> etc. If you pay more than $1500 and you don't get those things then you got
> ripped off. )


I have to say that I agree with this. _If you are not racing_, a $5k bike is unnecessary. But hey, we all purchase tons of unnecessary crap! It's like buying a Porsche or something.

I just went through something like this: had some money to spend on bike stuff. Instead, I spent it on a cleaning lady so I can ride my Surly one extra ride per week for a year.
I would rather ride a $1500 bike than be at work or mowing the lawn with a $5k bike in my garage.


----------



## TrailNut

*smart*



jh_on_the_cape said:


> I have to say that I agree with this. _If you are not racing_, a $5k bike is unnecessary. But hey, we all purchase tons of unnecessary crap! It's like buying a Porsche [or a Honda S2000] or something.
> 
> I just went through something like this: had some money to spend on bike stuff. Instead, I spent it on a cleaning lady so I can ride my Surly one extra ride per week for a year.
> I would rather ride a $1500 bike than be at work or mowing the lawn with a $5k bike in my garage.



oh wise one, jh_on_the_cape


----------



## pinepig

*Tubing diameters*

Would anyone care to post the tubing diameters (main triangle) used on their Moots? The thought of a high-end, straight gauge frame is intriguing, and I'm curious as to how they are putting these together.


----------



## trek215

*best invest I ever made*

I turned 50 last March. I bought Moots Vamoots for my birthday present. I had been loyal Trek rider since 1986. At the end of each cycling year my body always felt beat. Last year was different. I road 3700+ miles on my Moots. No body pains last year. I could of road longer but the Wisconsin winters are cold. My moots has Reynolds Ouzo Pro, Cane Creek S-6, Moots Stem, Moots Seatpost, Mavic Krysium SSC SL, Mavic Cordless Computer, Selle Italia Prolink Gel Seat, 2004 Dura-Ace with 12-27 cassette. The 12-27 helps my old body get over the hills. If you live in Wisconsin buy your Moots from Mountain Outfitters. Kevin will give you good deal. Moots was the best investment I ever made.


----------



## ifcjti

*my 2 cents*

I test rode a Moots VaMoots compact when shopping for a Ti frame. A wonderful ride and build. I also test rode an Independent Fabriction Crown Jewel Ti, I liked the ride of the IF better. I purchased the IF. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## AJS

> What do you think of the Moots Vamoots?


I think you're paying a lot for "mystique" and not much else.


----------



## 1234tuba

trek215 said:


> I turned 50 last March. I bought Moots Vamoots for my birthday present. I had been loyal Trek rider since 1986. At the end of each cycling year my body always felt beat. Last year was different. I road 3700+ miles on my Moots. No body pains last year. I could of road longer but the Wisconsin winters are cold. My moots has Reynolds Ouzo Pro, Cane Creek S-6, Moots Stem, Moots Seatpost, Mavic Krysium SSC SL, Mavic Cordless Computer, Selle Italia Prolink Gel Seat, 2004 Dura-Ace with 12-27 cassette. The 12-27 helps my old body get over the hills. If you live in Wisconsin buy your Moots from Mountain Outfitters. Kevin will give you good deal. Moots was the best investment I ever made.



Where in Wisconsin are you from, and what dealer did you purchase from? I live in Milwaukee and am seriously considering a Moots.


----------



## Len J

the sky above said:


> There seems to be a mystique about the Moots Vamoots road bike. The owners rave about it, saying the welds are impeccable and the ride quality is superb. The owners say they have gladly sold their Litespeeds, OCLVs, and Merlins now that they have their Vamoots.
> 
> Does anyone have an opinion about the Moots Vamoots road bike?


Anytime you spend this kind of money on a reputable manufacturers product, you are going to get a great performing bike. Moots is no exception.....however, I'd suggest you do something for your own piece of mind.

At this price point there are only a handful of high quality, reputable, experienced TI builders. I would encourage you to explore all of them. My experience is that each has something different to offer and each bike rides a little different. The differences are determinable if you spend the time investigating. Some MFG empasize custom fit, some have better paint (if that's important to you), some lean their designs to a racier end product (stiffer etc.), some do a better job at alignment, some have prettier welds, and some use higher tech and lighter multibutted tubes while others use straight guage, finally, each co has stereotypical rider image that comes with it (Notice the comments in this thread about Seven as an example). No value judgement here but investigating will uncover who and what each co thinks is important in the bike. Once you know this, then pick the co that best aligns with what YOU want in a bike and who you are.

It's worth the time and you will end up much happier. Moots is a fine bike, you can't go wrong, but you owe it to yourself, IMO to make sure (at this price) that it is what you want.

Len


----------



## EvilGilligan

*First intelligent thing I've heard all day!*

I bought my custom last spring as a present to myself - lost 50#'s, feeling good, etc. I've always made the sacrifice for better gear - years ago you bought Campy not for cround appeal but it just worked as lasted longer.

But with 2 kids, a girlfriend, 2 dogs, a cat, a job, a house, and friends/family responsibilities it is harder and harder to find the time to ride. jh_ 's point really hit a familiar chord.

I would L O V E to have another sexy custom yummy yummy ride. I can even afford it. But instead, _this year,_ I think I'll get a cleaning team in the house so every Saturday morning isn't spent with a mop in hand. 

jh_, hat's off to you - way to THINK with your head.

~EG



jh_on_the_cape said:


> I have to say that I agree with this. _If you are not racing_, a $5k bike is unnecessary. But hey, we all purchase tons of unnecessary crap! It's like buying a Porsche or something.
> 
> I just went through something like this: had some money to spend on bike stuff. Instead, I spent it on a cleaning lady so I can ride my Surly one extra ride per week for a year.
> I would rather ride a $1500 bike than be at work or mowing the lawn with a $5k bike in my garage.


----------



## timto

*agree*



mt.biker said:


> I've never heard anything bad about a Moot's bike, though I've ridden on a few and not fallen madly in love with them. So i've never had the urge to buy one and own it myself.
> 
> I have no doubt they are well constructed but I do wonder if the people ridding are more in love that there are only 800 made and so its like owning an exotic car then the actual ride quality.
> 
> The consitruction is what sets them appart though i couldnt tell you ride quality does.


I can share the same experience. I've had a serotta legend ti and a moots SL. The Moots SL was superior in workmanship hands down. No way was the legend put together as tidy as the moots. The construction really does set them apart. However while the Serotta did have quite nasty tig welds at the BB especially - it was amazing to ride. I regret selling the serotta. I don't regret moving on from the moots...

FWIW

Tim


----------

