# Titanium bolts/hardware



## e34john (May 31, 2010)

Where can I get Ti hardware to replace all the ones for my crank, bottle cages, deraillers, brake calipers etc. I want them all changed because all the ones on my bike are starting to have surface rust.


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## Paul1PA (Sep 16, 2006)

Check out RaceBolts:

http://www.racebolts.com/

Nice variety of Metric Ti fasteners, so they should have what you need. BTW, they also sell 7075 Aluminum bolts. You may want to consider those for certain applications (like water bottle cages) since lighter & cheaper than Ti. Available in a variety of cool anodized colors too. :thumbsup:

Hope this helps,

Paul


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

e34john said:


> Where can I get Ti hardware to replace all the ones for my crank, bottle cages, deraillers, brake calipers etc. I want them all changed because all the ones on my bike are starting to have surface rust.


that surface rust is from steel being deposited on the bolts from the wrench you're using. you may actually find it happens w/ ti bolts, too. obviously it won't stick, but it may show up. it happens on stainless bolts all time. 
be careful w/ ti crank bolts...use a steel one to pull the crank arm on, then take it out and put in the ti bolt and torque. if you use a ti bolt to pull the arm on, you'll most likely stretch it...


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

This place is pretty neat:
http://www.torontocycles.com/

You can get your _w_hole Ti order colored, too! And they have ti headset spacers.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

rx-79g said:


> This place is pretty neat:
> http://www.torontocycles.com/
> 
> You can get your hole Ti order colored, too! And they have ti headset spacers.


the _hole_ order? no way!


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## Becky Thatcher (Jan 4, 2006)

*Hyperbolts may be your answer*

http://hyperbolts.com/catalog/index.php

I've ordered from them. Never been disappointed.


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## pigpen (Sep 28, 2005)

SRP

http://www.srp-usa.com/


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## e34john (May 31, 2010)

Hyperbolts looks like a good site because they have kits alreadys et up to make things easier. I'll check the shipping rates to see if all the sites are comparable, how much can you really charge to ship Ti? 

I gotta figure out what to do about the steel filings from the tools, maybe keep them really clean or plasticdip all my wrenches.


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## Mauro Brazil (Aug 17, 2010)

rx-79g said:


> This place is pretty neat:
> http://www.torontocycles.com/
> 
> You can get your _w_hole Ti order colored, too! And they have ti headset spacers.


 I like the red bolts on the Centaur RD ... maybe on my Campy 11...


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

e34john said:


> I gotta figure out what to do about the steel filings from the tools, maybe keep them really clean or plasticdip all my wrenches.


Won't work. The iron particles come off during the wrenching, and dipping the wrenches will render them useless because they won't fit any more.

To keep surface rust out of steel bolt Allen heads, just wipe them out after wrenching on them, after washing the bike or after a rainy ride. Water often collects in these Allen heads and sits there until it evaporates, even on bikes which are painstakingly wiped down everywhere else by a fastidious owner. Spraying some waxy or oily substance into the heads keeps most surface rust (easily removed, BTW) from forming again.

IMO, using Ti bolts everywhere is a bad idea. They could well be weaker than the same-size steel bolts, thus stripping or breaking under less force and stress. I, for one, would never trust Ti bolts on a stem, especially if someone else could do some wrenching on them.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

wim said:


> Won't work. The iron particles come off during the wrenching, and dipping the wrenches will render them useless because they won't fit any more.
> 
> To keep surface rust out of steel bolt Allen heads, just wipe them out after wrenching on them, after washing the bike or after a rainy ride. Water often collects in these Allen heads and sits there until it evaporates, even on bikes which are painstakingly wiped down everywhere else by a fastidious owner. Spraying some waxy or oily substance into the heads keeps most surface rust (easily removed, BTW) from forming again.
> 
> IMO, using Ti bolts everywhere is a bad idea. They could well be weaker than the same-size steel bolts, thus stripping or breaking under less force and stress. I, for one, would never trust Ti bolts on a stem, especially if someone else could do some wrenching on them.


great advice on all 3...:thumbsup:


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

I have used a little smear of grease on the bolt heads too if I know it is going to get cruddy. Not enough to make a mess, just a thin wiping. When I worked at a shop that did mostly tri bikes, we would actually put a decent amount on the topcap bolt. Those guys sweat something terrible right on the bolt. Finish their ride and do zero maintenance. After the first fifty or so stuck bolts, you learn the tricks. Extra heavy on the threads under the topcap too.


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## dgeesaman (Jun 9, 2010)

wim said:


> IMO, using Ti bolts everywhere is a bad idea. They could well be weaker than the same-size steel bolts, thus stripping or breaking under less force and stress. I, for one, would never trust Ti bolts on a stem, especially if someone else could do some wrenching on them.


Not only is titanium weaker than the steel in bolts, it's half the rigidity. Bottom line is it cannot clamp and hold as well as steel of the same size. You either need to upsize the titanium fastener or know if less joint strength will work.


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## been200mph (May 28, 2004)

I've used ti bolts on my mtb stem/clamp for years with no issues. Also for the rotors, calipers, and many other places. If used properly they're just fine.


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## Mark Kelly (Oct 27, 2009)

dgeesaman said:


> Not only is titanium weaker than the steel in bolts, it's half the rigidity. Bottom line is it cannot clamp and hold as well as steel of the same size. You either need to upsize the titanium fastener or know if less joint strength will work.


The first part isn't true, the second part is largely irrelevant in the application being discussed.

The UTS of grade 304 stainless steel, a grade commonly used for bolts and fasteners, is a touch over 600 MPa. 

The UTS of 6Al4V Ti alloy, again the grade commonly used for fasteners, is over 800 MPa.

In the applications actually being discussed, like headstem bolts, the flexibility of the part being clamped is orders of magnitude greater than that of the fasteners.

The only application on a bicycle where fastener stiffness makes any practical difference is wheel skewers and experience shows that 5mm Ti skewers work well.


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## dgeesaman (Jun 9, 2010)

Mark Kelly said:


> The first part isn't true, the second part is largely irrelevant in the application being discussed.
> 
> The UTS of grade 304 stainless steel, a grade commonly used for bolts and fasteners, is a touch over 600 MPa.
> 
> ...


UTS is the wrong property to consider. Failure of a fastener is based on when it stretches plastically, so yield strength is where the comparison lie.

If we're comparing a hardened titanium ("grade 5" = hardened 6-4 Ti) it's on par with medium strength fastener materials like A2-70. (304 is not used in fasteners - they use it's nearest hardened equivalent called A2-70 or A2-80). But you MUST buy grade 5 Titanium to ensure it is sufficiently strong. They will be expensive because working with harder material is a lot more expensive. If you're buying titanium fasteners and the grade is not stated, assume it's junk.

To my point on flexibility: where you're bolting metal on metal, a more flexible fastener is more likely to cause creaking, fretting, and damage from sliding. The basic fact is the joints were engineered and tested for steel fasteners. If the original fastener is overly large that's probably a non-issue, but each fastener location is different. If you find a way to replace every fastener on the bike, do a little research to ensure you're not putting in a bolt that won't hold up to the job.


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

I've used Mettec. Great service, and high quality bolts, and reasonably priced. These are at least grade 5:

http://www.mettec.com/category/metric_tapered_socket_head_bolts

Many stem manufacturers now use titanium hardware on their top-of-the-line items. As long as the bolts are high quality, I don't why it'd be an issue.


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## Mark Kelly (Oct 27, 2009)

dgeesaman said:


> UTS is the wrong property to consider. Failure of a fastener is based on when it stretches plastically, so yield strength is where the comparison lie.
> 
> If we're comparing a hardened titanium ("grade 5" = hardened 6-4 Ti) it's on par with medium strength fastener materials like A2-70. (304 is not used in fasteners - they use it's nearest hardened equivalent called A2-70 or A2-80). But you MUST buy grade 5 Titanium to ensure it is sufficiently strong. They will be expensive because working with harder material is a lot more expensive. If you're buying titanium fasteners and the grade is not stated, assume it's junk.
> 
> To my point on flexibility: where you're bolting metal on metal, a more flexible fastener is more likely to cause creaking, fretting, and damage from sliding. The basic fact is the joints were engineered and tested for steel fasteners. If the original fastener is overly large that's probably a non-issue, but each fastener location is different. If you find a way to replace every fastener on the bike, do a little research to ensure you're not putting in a bolt that won't hold up to the job.


OK so I may have been a little hasty and I should have used yield stress not UTS. In any case the yield stress for A2-70 stainless quoted by a major supplier is 450MPa and A2-80 high strength is 600 MPa while Grade 5 Ti is 880 MPa so it doesn't appear to make any difference to my argument.

Thanks for the info about the difference between A2 and 304 - the suppliers I use for fasteners grade them as "A2 / 304" and "A4 / 316" so I assumed that they were exact equivalents. I take it from your statement that A2-80 is the same alloy as 304 but hardened to a higher yield strength.


I take the point about fretting but, admittedly wihout running the numbers, the flexibility of four short M5 Ti bolts in a stem end cap must be at least an order of magnitude less than the flexibility of the stem itself, let alone the handlebars. If there is say half a millimetre of elastic elongation in the bolts then the bars themselves will have to be moving quite a long way before even half that elongation is taken up. Maybe there's something I'm missing.


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## gerarddekker (Mar 11, 2016)

for titanium bolts? www.biketweaks.com . and they got aluminium bolts too. Good prices and quality stuff.


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## DaveT (Feb 12, 2004)

Only 5 1/2 years late to the game! :blush2:


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Switching to titanium bolts is a fool's errand.

As mentioned, most rust seen is from the tool, not from the bolt itself.

Boeshield T9 does a perfect job at both cleaning up the surface rust and preventing it from returning.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

But, but... Think of all the weight you'll save!


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

gerarddekker said:


> for titanium bolts? www.biketweaks.com . and they got aluminium bolts too. Good prices and quality stuff.


How on earth did you find this thread that hasn't seen any action for so many years?


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## steelbikerider (Feb 7, 2005)

At least he used the search function. If he hadn't, there would be even more responses pointing out this very thread.


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