# integrated headsets ... so confusing as to what's what ... help please



## StillKeen (Oct 4, 2005)

I have a frame that needs a headset (The frame came without a headset). The original spec sheet says 'FSA Integrated 1-1/8'. Are all Integrated 1-1/8 headsets the same size? I've only got one other bike with an integrated headset, so don't have much experience with them.

I'm most keen on is the Ritchey WCS headset (as they're cheap on eBay and appear to be very nice headsets).

Will this (http://www.ritcheylogic.com/dyn_prodfamily.php?k=98566) headset work? It says 'compatible with Cane Creek drop in headsets'.

Then there's a 'semi-integrated press fit' option (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RITCHEY-WCS-LOGIC-PRESS-FIT-HEADSET-1-1-8_W0QQitemZ250306710971QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR?hash=item3a47714dbb&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1683|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50)

Thanks.


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## WWU (Oct 7, 2008)

As far as integrated goes, there are two 'standards.'

Cane Creek, which uses 36/45 contact angle bearings, and Campagnolo, which uses 45/45. Various companies manufacture headsets that follow either of the two standards, and some make both, such as FSA (meaning a frame specc'd for 'FSA Integrated' headsets could be either standard). Also, Campy Integrated bearings have a 41.7mm outer diameter, while Cane Creek standard OD is 41mm.

You need to determine which standard your frame was intended for. What frame is it?


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*more...*

The IS and Campy standards are the most often used, but there are many more. If the OP has calipers to measure the head tube ID, he could tell the difference between the 41 and 41.8mm diameters.

http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=68


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## StillKeen (Oct 4, 2005)

Hi,

Thanks. The frame is a series brought out in New Zealand / Australia by Avanti, called Sarah Ulmer Brand (a NZ track cyclist who did very well on the track a couple of years ago). The model is a SubZero2 (SUB=Sarah Ulmer Brand).

The frame is in NZ, and i'm in the UK at the moment, but I've asked someone to have a measure of it.

In lots of industries where people mix terms, it really annoys me. There should be a different name for each standard, or some code, so that you know you've got a Integrated 1.0 or an Integrated 2.0 ... this whole 'semi-integrated', 'zero stack', 'campy integrated', 'cane creek integrated' ... I think I've seen that a mtb and road integrated have different OD's too (44 vs 41mm?), Give me a 1 1/8th A-headset any day ... 

Thanks


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## Stogaguy (Feb 11, 2006)

*Cane Creek Guide*

Here is a link to a PDF from the Cane Creek site. It is the most comprehensive explanation of the various standards that I have found:
http://www.canecreek.com/manuals/Headset_Identification_and_SpecificationGuide.pdf

As for the confusing terminology, welcome to the bicycle industry. It has, as far as I know, always been this way and always will be this way. IMHO, it is actually getting worse as there is a more diverse array of equipment available these days. IMHO, the manufactures desire for proprietary specifications drive this. Parts makers want you to be locked into buying their stuff. Proprietary specs do just that. Marketers want to distinguish their stuff for other stuff without "confusing" people with technical specs. To do this they need to keep inventing terminology.


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## StillKeen (Oct 4, 2005)

*dimensions*

Ive had someone take some measurements.

Any thoughts?


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## WWU (Oct 7, 2008)

The data/drawings are a tad confusing... Is the 41mm you list the OD of the head tube, or is it the ID of the opening on the head tube?


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## Stogaguy (Feb 11, 2006)

*Contact the manufacture*

My advice is to contact the frame manufacturer for a more detailed specification. Ask them for:
The brand and model number of the headset that they reccommend/ship with a complete bike (if they sell them).
A drawing of the head tube and fork crown that lists all of the measurements.
Armed with this information it should be possible to purchase an appropriate headset and get it right the first time. Short of input from the manufacturer, I would wait until you have physical possession of the frame and proper measuring tools to work through all of the measurement very carefully.

No matter what you do be, very careful. In improperly executed headset installation could ruin your frame and fork. This argues for having a truly experienced professional do the job if you are at all unsure of the correct specification.


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## crestlinefarm (May 6, 2003)

This group seems to have the best handle on integrated headsets, and since this is a discussion on integrated headsets; here's my situation. I bought a 2006 Giant Anthem-1 (it's a full suspension mtb frame, but the forums over on MTBR don't go into the same level of detail as my friends on RBR.) I asked around and even called a shop that carries Giant and they all said "Zero Stack".
The frame showed up today and luckily I hadn't bought a headset for it because the bearings & cups were still installed! It definitely has very low profile cups (they're black and the frame is blue) leading me to believe it's Zero Stack...but I pulled the top bearing out and sure enough it says "TH INDUSTRIES 36x45 #873". Scratching my head I pulled out a spare CaneCreek IS-2 headset and looked at the bearings: TH INDUSTRIES 36x45 #873. I checked with a pair of calipers and the OD of the bearings are the same.
Sooooo, was there a Zero Stack headset that uses the same bearings as the Cane Creek IS? 
Here's why I ask, this frame did not come with a fork...so there's no race or compression ring/top cap assembly. Can I just use the fork race & compression ring/top cap assy from my IS-2 or is there still some difference I'm missing. I want to avoid buying a headset I don't need and then having to return/exchange/resell it.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*thoughts...*

I'd knock the pressed-in cups out and measure the OD, so you know what to buy. Purchase an entire new headset, making sure the the press fit cup is the proper diameter.

http://www.canecreek.com/manuals/He...set_Identification_and_SpecificationGuide.pdf


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## crestlinefarm (May 6, 2003)

Thanks C40, that's probably the safest approach. 
I did some more sleuthing and it looks like there was a ZS that used the same bearings as the IS but I'm not confident the top cap interface will be correct, so off I go in search of a new headset. What's your opinion on the "Woodman"? It comes in a nice matching blue...
http://www.ride-this.com/index.php/woodman-axis-sicr-comp-headset-zs-118-dk-blue.html


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## JimP (Dec 18, 2001)

The "TH INDUSTRIES 36x45 #873" bearing is used in several different integrated headsets. The picture is of the TH Industries IS-2 headset and the FSA Orbit IS headset. 

Description & Materials 
1-1/8",36°/45° ACB For 45mm OD headtube 1-1/8"steerer 7075/T6 crown race Cane Creek compatible Stack Height 7.2+1=8.2 Weight-49.2 grams 

Why not just use the Cane Creek headset and keep the other bearings as spares?


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

C-40 said:


> I'd knock the pressed-in cups out and measure the OD, so you know what to buy. Purchase an entire new headset, making sure the the press fit cup is the proper diameter.
> 
> http://www.canecreek.com/manuals/He...set_Identification_and_SpecificationGuide.pdf


Some frame manufacturers ( like the Ridley X-Night for example ) produce their frames with non-standard press cups.

So the Semi-Integrated press cups made by FSA, Cane Creek or Ritchey won't fit the frame.

The frame needs special press cups, but then you can use interchangeably the 36/45 bearings and/or headset caps.


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