# Chorus vs. Record 11 Shifters



## fallzboater (Feb 16, 2003)

I'm looking at the parts guide, and it appears that the only difference in part numbers between Chorus and Record 11 shifters is the brake lever, itself. Buying Chorus seems to be a no-brainer.

If I'm ordering a new "lever set" from any of the UK retailers, I should expect them to come with brake and shift cables and housings, right? Anyone checked to see who's cheapest, with shipping to the US, lately? (edit: It looks like they're all within about $10, with Wiggle being the cheapest, with free shipping)


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## natep (Jan 27, 2007)

I have been thinking that going for Chorus 11 shifters was a no-brainer as well after poring over the parts guide and checking part numbers etc. But if you read all the copy under the description heading on the Chorus Ultrashift Controls product page, on the Campagnolo web site (be sure to click more+ to get all the copy), they refer to the use of "polymer bushings and a new internal mechanism" while further down the page under the technical specifications heading, they also refer to "ball bearings" as well.
It's all quite confusing to me and a little disheartening as I just bought a set of Chorus 11 shifters under the assumption that ball bearings were used in the internal mechanism. And I don't really care to disassemble them to confirm the use of bearings for sure.

- Nate


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## veloci1 (Nov 29, 2005)

I wouldd not worry about a thing if i were you. i have Chorus on one bike and Record on the other. i cannot tel the difference in performance. actually, i do not think there is any. maybe wear and tear is the only factor, but, you can rebuild Campy any time. the only Super Record part i have on both of my bikes is the rear Der. i believe that with the amount of use the rear der goes through, that was worth upgrading.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*the way to tell..*

Campy literature is of no help. You can find writings that claim that all level of shifters have ball bearings, but they do not. One poster said his Athena levers had ball bearings, but it was not clear that he really knew how to identify the bearings.

It is not necessary to disassemble the lever. If you look carefully at the thin metal bracket that goes over the main pivot shaft and connects to the finger shift lever, you can see a bit of the front ball bearing. All you will be able to see is a very thin line of the steel outer bearing race, right where the bracket rests against the ergo body. You'll probably need to scrap the white grease off with a toothpick to get that glimpse of a bearing. Don;t confuse the side of the metal bracket with the bearing race. The bearing race should shine, compared to the dull silver plating on the finger lever bracket.

The Centaur shifters that I have use a grey plastic bushing that is hex-shaped and you can see nothing of it without disassembling the levers.


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## thosj (Mar 24, 2010)

So.........the answer is?

All Chorus 11 levers have bushings?

All Chorus 11 levers have ball bearings?

Some Chorus 11 levers have ball bearings and some have bushings, depending on manufacturing date, and we'll know by looking?


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## fallzboater (Feb 16, 2003)

or, it makes no difference, since the bushings work just as well?


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## thosj (Mar 24, 2010)

fallzboater said:


> or, it makes no difference, since the bushings work just as well?


That would be the 4th possible answer, yup. Makes no difference 'til about the 15,000 mile point.

Didn't mean to hijack your thread, I'll leave now.


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## ericjacobsen3 (Apr 27, 2007)

As far as I have been able to tell myself and from polling others, ALL 11-speed shifters Campy ever made have bearings, including Chorus and Athena. I don't think the main issue is the pressure to push the lever to make a shift, but rather the friction to turn the post inside the lever that must be overcome by the derailleur spring. For this you want minimal friction, and I think Campy is so protective of 11-speed that they don't want to risk a bushing on it.


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## thosj (Mar 24, 2010)

ericjacobsen3 said:


> As far as I have been able to tell myself and from polling others, ALL 11-speed shifters Campy ever made have bearings, including Chorus and Athena. I don't think the main issue is the pressure to push the lever to make a shift, but rather the friction to turn the post inside the lever that must be overcome by the derailleur spring. For this you want minimal friction, and I think Campy is so protective of 11-speed that they don't want to risk a bushing on it.


That sounds plausible to me! 

My main concern is I ride this stuff a LOT and have no sponser or mechanic. My orginal Record 10 levers/RD, from the first year they were available, have LOTS of miles, right lever is on the 3rd or 4th set of G-Springs, and they shift just like new. I asked/read around about Chorus and ball bearings, ordered Chorus on the assumption of ball bearings, and would have GLADLY paid the $50US for Record levers if it would have guaranteed ball bearings. Just me.

I'm almost certain non-ball bearing 11 levers, IF such a thing exists, would shift the same when new. 

I'll know about MY Chorus 11 levers Tuesday or Wednesday when they're delivered and I check, even if I have to disassemble a brand new lever to find out!!


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*let us know...*

I've got Centaur levers converted to 11 speed and they are working just fine. 

Let us know what you see when you get your Chorus levers. It should not be necessary to disassemble the levers. You may need a flashlight to get enough light into the area.


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## thosj (Mar 24, 2010)

C-40 said:


> I've got Centaur levers converted to 11 speed and they are working just fine.
> 
> Let us know what you see when you get your Chorus levers. It should not be necessary to disassemble the levers. You may need a flashlight to get enough light into the area.


Interesting. I bought a set of Chorus 11 levers and a set of Centaur 10 Ultra Shift levers. Both seem to have ball bearings according to C40's "how to tell" post. There is definately a bearing looking ring of metal, IN the black plastic housing, UNDER the lever bracket, flush with the plastic. 

I don't think I'll take 'em apart to see for sure, and I suppose some sort of "bushing" could have the metal rim, but it appears that both have bearings.

If I have posting pics figured out, I'll post two, first Chorus 11, second Centaur 10.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*interesting...*

Campy may have switched all models to bearings, in which case they are charging a lot for nothing, since Chorus and Record would be identical.

My early '09 Centaur shifters have a plastic bushing and you can see nothing of it, without disassembly. It's smaller with a hex-shaped outside.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Based on descriptions above, my 2009 Chorus-11 shifters _appear_ to have bearings.

I also looked at Campy's 2009 exploded parts diagrams, and the Bill of Materials of Chorus and Record shifters is identical, except for the primary brake levers (logo and cosmetics are different?).

In fact , most of the Chorus shifters' component part numbers contain the text "SR", which generally denotes a part is used on Super Record.

Chorus owners, rejoice!


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## thosj (Mar 24, 2010)

tom_h said:


> Based on descriptions above, my 2009 Chorus-11 shifters _appear_ to have bearings.
> 
> I also looked at Campy's 2009 exploded parts diagrams, and the Bill of Materials of Chorus and Record shifters is identical, except for the primary brake levers (logo and cosmetics are different?).
> 
> ...


Your Chorus parts diagram conclusion is the exact same thing I based buying Chorus levers on!! I'm glad I did.

I got the Waterford RS-22 setup with the 11 today and it's great. My first impressions:

Right lever upshift about the same as Record 10, maybe SLIGHTLY less tactile feedback but slightly easier upshifts
.
Right lever downshift, thumb button, magic. As close to pushbutton as it gets (we don't need no steenk'n electric). Great tactile feedback.

Left lever close to magic both ways. I setup for 4 clicks, works great, pop pop up/down and this with a 10 speed crank, compact 34/50.

Brake levers a little further out from the hood position and I have fairly big hands and I did NOT use the extension parts for BIG HANDS. Might take a bit MORE pull, but you're braking on those new humps from the hoods. Great modulation.

New hood shape, magic. Lots of available positions. All in all, 9.9 of 10!!


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## fallzboater (Feb 16, 2003)

thosj said:


> I got the Waterford RS-22 setup with the 11 today and it's great. My first impressions:
> 
> Right lever upshift about the same as Record 10, maybe SLIGHTLY less tactile feedback but slightly easier upshifts
> .
> ...


Good review, although you seem to have got upshifts (smaller cogs) and downshifts (larger cogs) confused. I'm hoping to have my Chorus 11 shifters late next week, which will replace my current Chorus 10. (Wiggle confirmed that the shifters will come with the cable set.) I do intend to use the Big Hands shims.

I'm using a Shiftmate #1 with SRAM 10 cassette now, and it appears that if I flip the sheave over, it'll work with the 11 speed shifters, too. At some point I'll probably build an 11 speed rear wheel with a White Industries or other hub. It's too bad that Chris King won't do a Campy freehub body, for my existing rear wheels (I don't want any of the conversion cassettes).


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## thosj (Mar 24, 2010)

fallzboater said:


> Good review, although you seem to have got upshifts (smaller cogs) and downshifts (larger cogs) confused.


Yeah, I know, upshift to me means UP the cogs, not UP to a higher gear!! Pull it UP, push it DOWN! Finger lever UP, pull cable tighter, thumb button DOWN, let cable go!!

What I get for not hanging out in bike shops, reading bike mags, or even forums much. I ride alone 98% of the time, I'm 63 years old, and stuck in my thinking from 40+ years of this stuff. Sorry to confuse, I'll try to NOT get that one wrong again!!


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

thosj said:


> ... What I get for not hanging out in bike shops, reading bike mags, or even forums much. I ride alone 98% of the time, I'm 63 years old, and stuck in my thinking from 40+ years of this stuff. Sorry to confuse, I'll try to NOT get that one wrong again!!


I follow the reading materials, and we still get mixed up amongst ourselves ;-)

I've fallen back to describing in terms of "bigger cog" , "bigger (chain)ring", or just "harder / easier gear" ;-)


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## fallzboater (Feb 16, 2003)

fallzboater said:


> I'm using a Shiftmate #1 with SRAM 10 cassette now, and it appears that if I flip the sheave over, it'll work with the 11 speed shifters, too. At some point I'll probably build an 11 speed rear wheel with a White Industries or other hub. It's too bad that Chris King won't do a Campy freehub body, for my existing rear wheels (I don't want any of the conversion cassettes).


As a followup, I got the Chorus 11 shifters and cable set from Wiggle in one week ($245 shipped). I'm using a Chorus 10 RD, flipped Shiftmate (increases cable travel by 5%), and shifting is perfect on my SRAM 10 cassette.


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## killsoft (Oct 17, 2005)

fallzboater said:


> As a followup, I got the Chorus 11 shifters and cable set from Wiggle in one week ($245 shipped). I'm using a Chorus 10 RD, flipped Shiftmate (increases cable travel by 5%), and shifting is perfect on my SRAM 10 cassette.


This is a wild idea. I thought about trying a C10 shifter and SRAM10 deraillleur on my cross bike. But doing it your way you get the C11 shifter if/when you want to upgrade to 11 speed.

Thanks for sharing.

KS


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## fallzboater (Feb 16, 2003)

I did the math and figured the shifting would be close, but I did a 62 mile ride with 5k feet of climbing today, and it was absolutely perfect (silent on all cogs) all day. The only niggle I have with the shifters is that right one has an audible buzz/rattle that starts above 30mph or so on chip-seal. It seems to be internal, since I can't stop it by putting a finger on the levers or upshift button. Nothing else on the bike makes a sound, so it's a bit annoying. My Chorus 10 shifter didn't do this.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*not a great idea...*

If the RD is Campy, it can be corrected with the shiftmate to shift a SRAM/Shimano cassette, but the SRAM RD require uniform cables pulls that the Campy shifter will not deliver.

In the case of a 10 speed Campy shifter, the first pulls add up to 10mm, while a SRAM RD needs 12mm to execute 4 shifts. There's almost a whole cog's worth of error in the first 4-5 shifts.

An 11 speed shifter, even with a shiftmate would not be an improvement.


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## killsoft (Oct 17, 2005)

C-40 said:


> If the RD is Campy, it can be corrected with the shiftmate to shift a SRAM/Shimano cassette, but the SRAM RD require uniform cables pulls that the Campy shifter will not deliver.
> 
> In the case of a 10 speed Campy shifter, the first pulls add up to 10mm, while a SRAM RD needs 12mm to execute 4 shifts. There's almost a whole cog's worth of error in the first 4-5 shifts.
> 
> An 11 speed shifter, even with a shiftmate would not be an improvement.


Thanks for the info. That doesn't sound like it would work at all. I may be misremembering Zinn's article. Or maybe it just doesn't work in reality.

In general, how well do the Shiftmate setups work over time? Does it increase the chance of cable friction degrading shift quality? 

Oh, and that reminds me of another question. Since SRAM pulls more cable per shift (right?), is its performance more resistant to cable friction?

Thanks,
KS


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## fallzboater (Feb 16, 2003)

killsoft said:


> In general, how well do the Shiftmate setups work over time? Does it increase the chance of cable friction degrading shift quality?
> 
> Oh, and that reminds me of another question. Since SRAM pulls more cable per shift (right?), is its performance more resistant to cable friction?


The Shiftmate should work better over time, since half of the housing loop is replaced by a sealed bearing. I've only got a few hundred miles on mine so far, though.

In theory, I would think that greater cable travel would improve shifting precision, and be less affected by small problems with the cables. I've only tried SRAM on my MTB's so far, and I haven't noticed any significant difference between SRAM's ~1:1 and Shimano's ~2:1.


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## ericjacobsen3 (Apr 27, 2007)

*New Veloce Ultrashift from Ribble - w/ Bearings!*

Well, thanks to the misfortune (or indulgence) of millions of Greek pensioners, the price of a set of Veloce levers fell another $10 so I ordered a new set before the downgrade kicks in (not that a single click bugs me that much).

I immediately checked for Veloce bearings and... lo and behold, there are bearings in there! Not bad for $110 w/ shipping. Now I just need a 12th bike to put them on since I'm not letting C40 shame me into taking my white trash Xenon levers of the Klein.
View attachment 200175


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## miurasv (Jun 4, 2010)

Did anyone find out for sure if Chorus 11 has ball bearings or bushes in the shifters? My brother bought Chorus 11 last week after weighing it up against Record. He had thought that Chorus 11 would have bearings but info on the net lead us to believe that the shifters, RD and brake calipers all have bushes. See the excellent and very informative 2 part review of Campagnolo Chorus, Record and Super Record 11 Speed Groupsets by Competetive Cyclist on youtube (links below). So has anyone seen the bearings in Chorus 11?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdBxCmS5pXU


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4-ThWfkx7w


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

All the lines of evidence posted previously, indicate Chorus = sealed ball bearings in shifters.


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## miurasv (Jun 4, 2010)

tom_h said:


> All the lines of evidence posted previously, indicate Chorus = sealed ball bearings in shifters.


Thanks for that and good to know. What about in the derailleurs and brake calipers?


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*thoughts...*

The post just above yours shows bearings in the lowly Veloce shifter. If Veloce has it, then Chorus most certainly would. Apparently, Campy did make a change at some point, because I have an early version of the Centaur 10 ultrashift levers with bushings. Perhaps there were problems, or maybe the cost difference was to small to be worthwhile.


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