# Why now, Hincapie?



## cda 455

Why is George making an allegation against Frankie Andreu now  ?

Is there a court hearing for someone somewhere in the world coming up that George is concerned about? 

What does George hope to gain by this allegation at this time?

Or is it simply just a reiteration of what was already said in the Pharmstrong movie?

Why now?


The article:

Hincapie Claims There's More To Andreu's Doping Past | Cyclingnews.com


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## Doctor Falsetti

He got suckered into it by his buddy and he ends up looking like a fool

Tilford's take

?Just because one of us stopped before the others doesn?t make him a better person.? ? George Hincapie | Steve Tilford


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## cda 455

Doctor Falsetti said:


> He got suckered into it by his buddy and he ends up looking like a fool
> 
> Tilford's take
> 
> ?Just because one of us stopped before the others doesn?t make him a better person.? ? George Hincapie | Steve Tilford


Interesting. 

Good points made.


Thanks for sharing.


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## Big-foot

Here's a glimpse into George's thought processes.


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## Local Hero

This part of Tilford's blog is funny: 

_Frankie is one of the good guys in this whole mess. He got sick of lying to his friends and family, quit racing in Europe and then came clean publicly, without having to be threatened by legal means to do so, as George was._

Those who quit do it for their own reasons. Those who come clean do it for their own reasons. Some are caught, some are pressured by courts, some had other motivations. 

Does anyone believe that Frankie would have quit or come clean had it not been for Betsy?

Who is Tilford to say that being motivated by one's wife is more noble than being motivated by a court? Many men would rather face the fury of the legal system than the fury of their wives! 

Whatever the reason, we cannot weigh one man's coming clean against another's reasons. They both cheated and they both came clean at their own time.


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## Peter P.

Local Hero said:


> Whatever the reason, we cannot weigh one man's coming clean against another's reasons. They both cheated and they both came clean at their own time.


I don't agree with your statement.

According to Frankie, his decision to stop doping cost him a spot on the Postal team. His admission of doping cost him a job at Trek as well as other financial hardships, according to Tilford.

Lance and George profited wildly through doping. That's where the weighty difference is; the courage to sacrifice for the truth at personal expense. Our court system does view extenuating circumstances when passing judgment. The length of the lies and depth of the cover up do and will matter.


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## Local Hero

Peter P. said:


> I don't agree with your statement.
> 
> According to Frankie, his decision to stop doping cost him a spot on the Postal team. His admission of doping cost him a job at Trek as well as other financial hardships, according to Tilford.
> 
> Lance and George profited wildly through doping. That's where the weighty difference is; the courage to sacrifice for the truth at personal expense. Our court system does view extenuating circumstances when passing judgment. The length of the lies and depth of the cover up do and will matter.


Was it truly Frankie's decision to stop? He was caught. 

Hincapie was never caught.


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## Local Hero

Local Hero said:


> Was it truly Frankie's decision to stop? He was caught.** .


**by Betsy. Betsy finding out did more to stop Frankie than the UCI did to stop Armstrong after a positive cortisone test. Backdated doctor's notes don't work with wives.


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## MR_GRUMPY

1) George was probably paid a Billion dollars by Lance.
2) George was hypnotized by Lance.
or 
3) George just got tired by all the one-sided BS that's been going around, and just wanted to remind people of a few things. (Like Frankie turning him on to the dark side)
.


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## Bluenote

To me, this is like a gang of burglars turning on each other. Yeah, one confessed first, but they were all burglars. 

I'm guessing the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Frankie might have doped more than he likes to admit. George kept his mouth shut, like a good little boy. 

And now they want to play 'who was less dirty?' Bit late for that, boys.


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## Alaska Mike

Bluenote said:


> To me, this is like a gang of burglars turning on each other. Yeah, one confessed first, but they were all burglars.
> 
> I'm guessing the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Frankie might have doped more than he likes to admit. George kept his mouth shut, like a good little boy.
> 
> And now they want to play 'who was less dirty?' Bit late for that, boys.


That's pretty much where I see it. 

George should keep quiet, if only to protect his business ventures. The more he talks, the more people are reminded of his own past, and the longer the Postal wound festers.


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## Peter P.

Bluenote said:


> To me, this is like a gang of burglars turning on each other. Yeah, one confessed first, but they were all burglars.


This could become a movie-Reservoir Dogs, With Bicycles!


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## Doctor Falsetti

Local Hero said:


> Does anyone believe that Frankie would have quit or come clean had it not been for Betsy?


So Frankie come clean to the NYT 7 years after Betsy confronted him is the same as George talking to the Feds?

Wow, that is stretch.


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## spade2you

Local Hero said:


> This part of Tilford's blog is funny:
> 
> _Frankie is one of the good guys in this whole mess. He got sick of lying to his friends and family, quit racing in Europe and then came clean publicly, without having to be threatened by legal means to do so, as George was._
> 
> Those who quit do it for their own reasons. Those who come clean do it for their own reasons. Some are caught, some are pressured by courts, some had other motivations.
> 
> Does anyone believe that Frankie would have quit or come clean had it not been for Betsy?
> 
> Who is Tilford to say that being motivated by one's wife is more noble than being motivated by a court? Many men would rather face the fury of the legal system than the fury of their wives!
> 
> Whatever the reason, we cannot weigh one man's coming clean against another's reasons. They both cheated and they both came clean at their own time.


Never question Fretsy. You hath been warned.


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## svrider

George just needs to keep his mouth shut. What does he have to gain? Nothing. It just makes him look bitter. Frankie already admitted to doping. So whats new? If George is going to simply argue about the amount it comes off as petty. He's been a class act up until now. He should just let it rest.

Also, hasn't he learned anything from Lance's situation? Had Lance kept his mouth shut he would have gotten away clean. But he just had to respond to every allegation out there. Foolish when you're guilty. A little humility would have worked wonders for him.


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## Local Hero

Maybe Hincapie got tired of Frankie's holier than thou attitude.


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## Doctor Falsetti

Local Hero said:


> Maybe Hincapie got tired of Frankie's holier than thou attitude.


Not too hard to be holier then George or Lance


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## Local Hero

Doctor Falsetti said:


> So Frankie come clean to the NYT 7 years after Betsy confronted him is the same as George talking to the Feds?


Whoa whoa whoa. Do you think Frankie was feeling any pressure from his wife to back her up? 

Like I said earlier, different people had different pressure to come clean. A positive test and the UCI couldn't bring Armstrong around, it took a multi million dollar assault from USADA to get him to come clean. Somewhere in the middle are guys like Hincapie and Frankie, one was subpoenaed and the other was was "encouraged" by his wife to speak the truth. None are innocent. 

Perhaps His Holiness Christophe Bassons should come out of hiding and blast Frankie for doing drugs in the first place.


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## Bluenote

Local Hero said:


> Maybe Hincapie got tired of Frankie's holier than thou attitude.


Poor George. I play the worlds smallest violin for him.


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## spade2you

Bluenote said:


> Poor George. I play the worlds smallest violin for him.


Doesn't it feel good?


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## Doctor Falsetti

Local Hero said:


> Whoa whoa whoa. Do you think Frankie was feeling any pressure from his wife to back her up?


Nope. How do I know? I have talked to him in detail about it many times. 

I always have to laugh at all these folks on the internet who think Betsy runs Frankie like a puppet. Such nonsense. He is one of the most hard headed people I know. Nobody is telling him what to do.


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## 80sroadie

So do you believe that the part of Tyler Hamilton's "Secret Race" where he talks about Frankie being afraid of Betsy finding out about his doping is untrue or do you think it just doesn't mean much as far as it's influence on Frankie?


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## Doctor Falsetti

80sroadie said:


> So do you believe that the part of Tyler Hamilton's "Secret Race" where he talks about Frankie being afraid of Betsy finding out about his doping is untrue or do you think it just doesn't mean much as far as it's influence on Frankie?


He was certainly concerned, as would any person with a conscious who cares about his wife would be.


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## Local Hero

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Nope. How do I know? I have talked to him in detail about it many times.
> 
> I always have to laugh at all these folks on the internet who think Betsy runs Frankie like a puppet. Such nonsense. He is one of the most hard headed people I know. Nobody is telling him what to do.


So Betsy and Frankie both heard Armstrong admit to drug use and Betsy goes public but Frankie stays silent. 

And you're saying she never told him to back her up? 

When Frankie quit cycling, did it have anything to do at all with Betsy finding out about his drug use? I'm not clear on the timeline...did he quit after she found out and that is just a coincidence?


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## Doctor Falsetti

Local Hero said:


> So Betsy and Frankie both heard Armstrong admit to drug use and Betsy goes public but Frankie stays silent.
> 
> And you're saying she never told him to back her up?
> 
> When Frankie quit cycling, did it have anything to do at all with Betsy finding out about his drug use? I'm not clear on the timeline...did he quit after she found out and that is just a coincidence?


You are confused. Betsy did not "Go public" she, and Frankie, were subpoenaed to testify in the SCA case and refused to lie. 

Betsy found out about his doping in 1999. Frankie rode the 2000 Tour clean. He was road captain of the team. He retired in 2001.


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## sir duke

MR_GRUMPY said:


> or
> 3) George just got tired by all the one-sided BS that's been going around, and just wanted to remind people of a few things. (Like Frankie turning him on to the dark side)
> .


or

4) maybe he just prefers Lance's one-sided bullshit. It served him well in the past and made him rich...


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## 88 rex

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Betsy found out about his doping in 1999. Frankie rode the 2000 Tour clean. He was road captain of the team. He retired in 2001.


Betsy found out in 99. It all got organized in 95, went full on doping in 96. Definitely didn't ride the 2000 tour clean when he rode strong and the rest of the peloton has been found proven to be doping. He then worked for the team after retirement.....and knew what was going on in regards to doping.


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## RaptorTC

Not really related, but I got to ride with Frankie a few weeks back. Seemed like a nice guy. Found it a bit strange that he was wearing his US Postal bibs still though.

/coolstorybro


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## Coolhand

There are no "good dopers". They all cheated. Frankie was a willing and eager cheater. Just like the rest.


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## love4himies

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Nope. How do I know? I have talked to him in detail about it many times.
> 
> I always have to laugh at all these folks on the internet who think Betsy runs Frankie like a puppet. Such nonsense. He is one of the most hard headed people I know. Nobody is telling him what to do.


Because that's how it appears to the public. Betsy is the vocal one and Frankie just seems to sit in the background, making it seem like she is the one who is more upset about doping than Frankie. What else are people suppose to think? She is portrayed as somebody who is overly eager to to to the press along with the fact that her only involvement with pro cycling is to be married to a cyclist it is quite easy for people to form an opinion that she is the dominant one in the family.


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## spade2you

Coolhand said:


> There are no "good dopers". They all cheated. Frankie was a willing and eager cheater. Just like the rest.


How DARE you!!!!! 

I don't recall him ever admitting to TEACHING people how to dope. Can't be all holier than thou if you're teaching people how to use EPO.


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## Fireform

So now deciding to tell the truth makes you "holier than thou." Okay...


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## spade2you

love4himies said:


> Because that's how it appears to the public. Betsy is the vocal one and Frankie just seems to sit in the background, making it seem like she is the one who is more upset about doping than Frankie. What else are people suppose to think? She is portrayed as somebody who is overly eager to to to the press along with the fact that her only involvement with pro cycling is to be married to a cyclist it is quite easy for people to form an opinion that she is the dominant one in the family.


It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to get that Frankie probably would have kept his mouth shut if it weren't for Betsy.


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## Fireform

Yeah where does Betsy get off being all holier than thou with her principals and ****? Why couldn't she be meek and spineless like Kristen and Cheryl?


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## Doctor Falsetti

Coolhand said:


> There are no "good dopers". They all cheated. Frankie was a willing and eager cheater. Just like the rest.


Must be fun to live in such a black/white world. Makes life so easy, simple. 

Most can see a difference between a guy like Frankie who doped a handful of times and George and Lance's decade of transfusions, HGH, Test, etc.

Yup, Betsy is a crazy shrew who beats her husband. She should have been more like Crow, Kristen, Haven, and the rest of the enablers


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## spade2you

It's ok. Frankie only used 6 EPO vials at unimportant times.


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## sir duke

Fireform said:


> Yeah where does Betsy get off being all holier than thou with her principals and ****? Why couldn't she be meek and spineless like Kristen and Cheryl?


Wait,..Lance rode his comeback Tours clean 'cos Kristen made him promise...  Sound familiar?


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## Local Hero

Doctor Falsetti said:


> a guy like Frankie who doped a handful of times


According to eye witnesses Frankie doped more than just a handful of times.


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## Doctor Falsetti

Local Hero said:


> According to eye witnesses Frankie doped more than just a handful of times.


Link?


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## spade2you

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Link?


Do you have a link where Frankie confessed to showing other cyclists how to dope? I don't recall ever seeing that part.


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## evs

How did this become the bash Frankie thread when nice guy George is talking trash? He's the one who kept doing it. Yeah, he's a nice guy. So fricking what....


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## gus68

spade2you said:


> It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to get that Frankie probably would have kept his mouth shut if it weren't for Betsy.


rocket surgeon <- thats a great line, dont mind if I help myself to that one.


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## spade2you

gus68 said:


> rocket surgeon <- thats a great line, dont mind if I help myself to that one.


I didn't come up with that one. I encourage all people to use it!


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## gus68

I cant say it without laughing. I need to practice it so I can say it with a straight face.


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## helinutz

spade2you said:


> Do you have a link where Frankie confessed to showing other cyclists how to dope? I don't recall ever seeing that part.


I suggest you go read David Millar's book. There are tons of quotes in there where he says he learned to dope from FA. 

FTB talking about Tirreno in '97:
"I remember, after one stage, lying on the bed watching my roommate Frankie Andreu opening syringes and breaking ampoules..."

So its clear that FA hasn't told the whole story.

Also read the article in DFP. The point is that FA quit cycling because he tried to bluff a higher salary in 99/00. He didn't get renewed because he lied about getting other offers. It was only after Walsh's book was going to come out that FA made up the whole story about leaving cycling because he didn't want to dope.


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## Coolhand

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Must be fun to live in such a black/white world. Makes life so easy, simple.
> 
> Most can see a difference between a guy like Frankie who doped a handful of times and George and Lance's decade of transfusions, HGH, Test, etc.


I like this guy, his doping is ok. I don't like this guy, his doping isn't.


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## spade2you

helinutz said:


> I suggest you go read David Millar's book. There are tons of quotes in there where he says he learned to dope from FA.
> 
> FTB talking about Tirreno in '97:
> "I remember, after one stage, lying on the bed watching my roommate Frankie Andreu opening syringes and breaking ampoules..."
> 
> So its clear that FA hasn't told the whole story.
> 
> Also read the article in DFP. The point is that FA quit cycling because he tried to bluff a higher salary in 99/00. He didn't get renewed because he lied about getting other offers. It was only after Walsh's book was going to come out that FA made up the whole story about leaving cycling because he didn't want to dope.


By sheer coincidence, this happened to be the 6 times he used EPO. 

Haven't read the book. Some guys have commented about his arrogance being slightly annoying. To be honest, I think there's a 50/50 chance a given cyclist is telling the truth.


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## Doctor Falsetti

Coolhand said:


> I like this guy, his doping is ok. I don't like this guy, his doping isn't.


Nice spin. 

Tyler is a nice guy. He swallowed a truckload of dope, maybe even more then Lance. Never would have been a winner clean. Launched a years long smear campaign of USADA. He and Frankie are not the same, not even close


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## Coolhand

I only feel sorry for the poor SOBs who tried to ride clean in that era.


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## Fireform

Frankie tried to break down the omertà, Lance used every resource he had to enforce it. That's a pretty clear distinction in my mind.


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## spade2you

Coolhand said:


> I only feel sorry for the poor SOBs who tried to ride clean in that era.


All 10 of them.


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## 88 rex

fireform said:


> *betsy* tried to break down the omertà, lance used every resource he had to enforce it. That's a pretty clear distinction in my mind.


fify.


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## spade2you

88 rex said:


> fify.


Link?


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## Fireform

The butthurt militia seems to feel that the only character we should be allowed to admire would be some hypothetical squeaky clean ex pro who was nevertheless able to credibly expose the doping practices in the pro peloton. Then, they harp on the fact that no such person could possibly exist, and attempt to butcher every messenger who comes along. 

The fact is that, however imperfectly, the truth is coming out and the sport is trying to heal itself. That is a good thing. You can support that or not, it's up to you.


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## spade2you

Trying to heal itself would imply they quit doping.


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## Local Hero

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Link?


Link!? All you have to do is look in the thread. Let me fill in the gaps: According to eye witnesses *Hincapie and Hamilton*, Frankie doped more than just a handful of times. 


It's not rocket surgery.


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## Local Hero

Fireform said:


> The butthurt militia seems to feel that *the only character we should be allowed to admire* would be some hypothetical squeaky clean ex pro who was nevertheless able to credibly expose the doping practices in the pro peloton. Then, they harp on the fact that no such person could possibly exist, and attempt to butcher every messenger who comes along.
> 
> The fact is that, however imperfectly, the truth is coming out and the sport is trying to heal itself. That is a good thing. You can support that or not, it's up to you.


Cycling might not be the best sport if you're looking for a hero to worship


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## Fireform

Admire = worship, if you're a local hero.


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## Doctor Falsetti

Local Hero said:


> Link!? All you have to do is look in the thread. Let me fill in the gaps: According to eye witnesses *Hincapie and Hamilton*, Frankie doped more than just a handful of times.
> 
> 
> It's not rocket surgery.


So you don't have a link. You just made it up


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## spade2you

Doctor Falsetti said:


> So you don't have a link. You just made it up


Should he have shown George how to use it if he had only used just 6 times? Seems he should have turfed it to someone with more experience.


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## Local Hero

Doctor Falsetti said:


> So you don't have a link. You just made it up


Sorry, my mistake. 

Here are the links: 
Hincapie Claims There's More To Andreu's Doping Past | Cyclingnews.com
The Secret Race: Inside the Hidden World of the Tour de France: Tyler Hamilton, Daniel Coyle: 9780345530424: Amazon.com: Books


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## spade2you




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## Doctor Falsetti

Local Hero said:


> Sorry, my mistake.
> 
> Here are the links:
> Hincapie Claims There's More To Andreu's Doping Past | Cyclingnews.com
> The Secret Race: Inside the Hidden World of the Tour de France: Tyler Hamilton, Daniel Coyle: 9780345530424: Amazon.com: Books


Thanks for proving my point. Nothing in there about Frankie using more then a few times.

I like this part of Tyler's book



> Page 112
> Frankie did what he had to do. Fortunately for him, it wasn't as much as Kevin, Lance and I had to do. This was due to the fact that Frankie was a rouleur, a big guy, suited for grinding through flatter and rolling stages, and so required less [EPO] and other therapy than we climbers did. If we had to tune our engines to 99 percent of capacity at the Tour, Frankie could gut it out while staying a little closer to au naturale.


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## Doctor Falsetti

helinutz said:


> I suggest you go read David Millar's book. There are tons of quotes in there where he says he learned to dope from FA.
> 
> FTB talking about Tirreno in '97:
> "I remember, after one stage, lying on the bed watching my roommate Frankie Andreu opening syringes and breaking ampoules..."
> 
> So its clear that FA hasn't told the whole story.


That is funny.....why didn't you use the real quote from the book? 



> Millar's Cofidis teammate Frankie Andreu was breaking ampules of assorted "legal" recovery products and syringes; "d prefolic, epargriseovit, and ferlixit could boost your blood values one point, completely naturally."


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## 80sroadie

In your quote from page 112, IMO " it wasn't as much" and "closer to au naturale" only means he was yet another doper. 

Only stealing $100 doesn't make it better than stealing $1000. They are both stealing! 
Personally I don't care about either of these guys anymore since they are both admitted cheats. Oh yeah and I admit I loved watching them ride when they were still in the peloton.


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## Local Hero

LOL, isn't ferlixit used in conjunction with EPO?


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## Doctor Falsetti

Local Hero said:


> LOL, isn't ferlixit used in conjunction with EPO?


It has been used in the sport for decades as an iron supplement.


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## Doctor Falsetti

80sroadie said:


> In your quote from page 112, IMO " it wasn't as much" and "closer to au naturale" only means he was yet another doper.
> 
> Only stealing $100 doesn't make it better than stealing $1000. They are both stealing!
> Personally I don't care about either of these guys anymore since they are both admitted cheats. Oh yeah and I admit I loved watching them ride when they were still in the peloton.


The better analogy would be one guy stole $100 and the other $10,000,000

equating a guy who doped less then a dozen times with a guy who consumed a truck load of doping over 20 years is absurd


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## sir duke

Coolhand said:


> There are no "good dopers". They all cheated. Frankie was a willing and eager cheater. Just like the rest.


And if they're all cheats, they're all liars, and if they're all liars....well not much point in T&R is there? 
So if you finish second in a race you are no better than the guy who finished last. You're all LOSERS. Got any more deep thinking to help cycling clean up it's mess?


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## 80sroadie

Okay, $100 vs $10,000,000, still stealing. Both are thieves. You say you know FA and I admit I've never met either but you keep coming up with numbers for times FA doped, "less than a dozen" that I haven't seen written anywhere. Is this info in USADA Report? Just asking because I haven't read it.


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## Local Hero

Doctor Falsetti said:


> It has been used in the sport for decades as an iron supplement.


So the guy was taking plenty of PEDs and injecting all sorts of stuff in his ass. He taught newer riders how to use PEDs and EPO. But we like him because he quit after his wife found out about his drug use (and his quitting had nothing to do with his wife finding out).

All right.


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## Doctor Falsetti

Local Hero said:


> He taught newer riders how to use PEDs and EPO.


Link?


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## helinutz

Doctor Falsetti said:


> That is funny.....why didn't you use the real quote from the book?



The real quote? It is the real quote. Here it is in B&W!


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## Local Hero

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Link?


Andreu mentored Hincapie, taught him how to use EPO, and even told him exactly where to buy it. 

Link: Hincapie Claims There's More To Andreu's Doping Past | Cyclingnews.com



It was pressure from his wife Betsy that drove Andreu to give up the drugs in 2000, and the Andreus claim it cost him his job as a rider the following year.

Link: Hincapie Claims There's More To Andreu's Doping Past | Cyclingnews.com

Betsy may not even know about a lot of what Frankie did. 

Link: Hincapie Claims There's More To Andreu's Doping Past | Cyclingnews.com


When Frankie was taking EPO and other PEDs he didn't even realize what he was doing was wrong. He just did it. He said: "at the time, I didn't realize it was wrong. I was just doing it." 

Link: Hincapie Claims There's More To Andreu's Doping Past | Cyclingnews.com


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## Doctor Falsetti

Local Hero said:


> Andreu mentored Hincapie, taught him how to use EPO, and even told him exactly where to buy it.
> 
> Link: Hincapie Claims There's More To Andreu's Doping Past | Cyclingnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> It was pressure from his wife Betsy that drove Andreu to give up the drugs in 2000, and the Andreus claim it cost him his job as a rider the following year.
> 
> Link: Hincapie Claims There's More To Andreu's Doping Past | Cyclingnews.com
> 
> Betsy may not even know about a lot of what Frankie did.
> 
> Link: Hincapie Claims There's More To Andreu's Doping Past | Cyclingnews.com
> 
> 
> When Frankie was taking EPO and other PEDs he didn't even realize what he was doing was wrong. He just did it. He said: "at the time, I didn't realize it was wrong. I was just doing it."
> 
> Link: Hincapie Claims There's More To Andreu's Doping Past | Cyclingnews.com


Thanks for proving my point. Nothing in there about Frankie doping more then a few times, a small fraction of Lance and George.


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## Doctor Falsetti

helinutz said:


> The real quote? It is the real quote. Here it is in B&W!
> 
> View attachment 291840


The quote I have is from the original draft of the book where they named the specific vitamins. In your copy they leave it generic. 

It is clear from your photo that they are talking about vitamins, in fact it says it multiple times on that page



> "What was that you were injecting?" I said
> "Vitamins, Iron, and Vitamins. The usual, all legal, don't worry"


You claimed



helinutz said:


> There are tons of quotes in there where he says he learned to dope from FA.


If there are "Tons" then please provide one. So far all you have shown is that he learned to use legal vitamins from Frankie.


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## spade2you

Vitamin injections. Riiiiiiiiiiight.


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## Coolhand

Delivered by the tooth fairy. . .


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## spade2you

Coolhand said:


> Delivered by the tooth fairy. . .


Link?


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## Coolhand

My secret pals in the peleton told me.


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## Doctor Falsetti

Coolhand said:


> My secret pals in the peleton told me.


It is not my fault you do not have friends in the Pro side of the sport


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## aclinjury

Just when you think this soap opera is heading for closure, boom!, they injection some cheap ploy only if to extend it one more season. 

Damn you Geroge. I'll make sure not to buy Hincapie clothing now. Don't wanna be left stranded like those folks who bought Livestrong!


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## spade2you

Doctor Falsetti said:


> It is not my fault you do not have friends in the Pro side of the sport


fify? :idea:


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## spade2you

aclinjury said:


> Just when you think this soap opera is heading for closure, boom!, they injection some cheap ploy only if to extend it one more season.
> 
> Damn you Geroge. I'll make sure not to buy Hincapie clothing now. Don't wanna be left stranded like those folks who bought Livestrong!


Post a pic of Hincapie product in a trashcan?


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## Local Hero

Doctor Falsetti said:


> The quote I have is from the original draft of the book where they named the specific vitamins. In your copy they leave it generic.


An original draft? Was this draft ever published? You said that it was "the real quote from the book"



Doctor Falsetti said:


> That is funny.....why didn't you use the real quote from the book?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Millar's Cofidis teammate Frankie Andreu was breaking ampules of assorted "legal" recovery products and syringes; "d prefolic, epargriseovit, and ferlixit could boost your blood values one point, completely naturally."
Click to expand...

I googled that exact quote and a blog came up:
Velo Vortmax: Racing Through the Dark: A Review

Here's the full paragraph: 

_It didn't take long for David Millar to become acquainted with the doping culture in professional cycling. After the training ride Millar's Cofidis teammate Frankie Andreu was breaking ampules of assorted "legal" recovery products and syringes; "d prefolic, epargriseovit, and ferlixit could boost your blood values one point, completely naturally." But don't tell Betsy!_


When you said that your quote is "from an original draft" did you mean to say "from a random internet blog"?


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## Local Hero

Doctor Falsetti said:


> It is not my fault you do not have friends in the Pro side of the sport


ZING!

Or maybe people here to have PRO friends, just our friends are clean.


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## Doctor Falsetti

Local Hero said:


> An original draft? Was this draft ever published? You said that it was "the real quote from the book"
> 
> 
> I googled that exact quote and a blog came up:
> Velo Vortmax: Racing Through the Dark: A Review
> 
> Here's the full paragraph:
> 
> _It didn't take long for David Millar to become acquainted with the doping culture in professional cycling. After the training ride Millar's Cofidis teammate Frankie Andreu was breaking ampules of assorted "legal" recovery products and syringes; "d prefolic, epargriseovit, and ferlixit could boost your blood values one point, completely naturally." But don't tell Betsy!_
> 
> 
> When you said that your quote is "from an original draft" did you mean to say "from a random internet blog"?


Wait, so you lied and are now trying to cover it up through obfuscation? 

Let us know when you find those "Tons" of quotes of Frankie teaching Millar to dope

thanks!


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## Local Hero

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Wait, so you lied and are now trying to cover it up through obfuscation?
> 
> Let us know when you find those "Tons" of quotes of Frankie teaching Millar to dope
> 
> thanks!


LOL


You confused me with another poster. 

And you accused me of obfuscation in an attempt to obfuscate the fact that your "real quote" that came "from an original draft" was actually sourced from some blog. 

This is sad. I feel like I just beat up a blind wino.


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## Doctor Falsetti

Local Hero said:


> LOL
> 
> 
> You confused me with another poster.
> 
> And you accused me of obfuscation in an attempt to obfuscate the fact that your "real quote" that came "from an original draft" was actually sourced from some blog.
> 
> This is sad. I feel like I just beat up a blind wino.


Post, not poster

You may not realize that often after a book it launched it is modified in it's various prints. The edition review by the link you put up is different from the later copy the guy who lied has. No big conspiracy, it makes sense as some might read the trade names and not realize they were just vitamins. Smart of the publishers to make this clear in later editions. Much like the original draft of the book Wheelman had a line that said Frankie gave drugs to George. This was taken out of later drafts as it was not true. 

None of this addresses the real issue, did Frankie teach Millar how to dope? You do not have to be a drunk to see there is nothing in his book that indicated this.Wonder why he lied?


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## Local Hero

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Winder why he lied?


I winder that too.


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## Coolhand

Let's keep this on track, as fun as it is to make fun of each other.


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## Big-foot

Coolhand said:


> Let's keep this on track, as fun as it is to make fun of each other.


"My secret pals in the peleton told me."

Yes, let's.


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## foto

Big-foot said:


> "My secret pals in the peleton told me."
> 
> Yes, let's.


When the law breaks the law, then there is no law.


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## spade2you

foto said:


> When the law breaks the law, then there is no law.


Y'all look like a bunch of law breakers!


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## Local Hero

I am the law.


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## spade2you

Local Hero said:


> I am the law.


Care to post your badge?


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## den bakker

Coolhand said:


> Let's keep this on track, as fun as it is to make fun of each other.


the track of stupidity you led it down already? 
yes that was poster not post.


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## 80sroadie

Doctor Falsetti said:


> It is not my fault you do not have friends in the Pro side of the sport


My friend was a punter in the NFL and he can beat up your friends in pro cycling!


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## foto

Local Hero confronts the Coolhand in an epic showdown...


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## Local Hero

Is it too soon to nominate a thread of the year?


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## Bluenote

Local Hero said:


> Is it too soon to nominate a thread of the year?


This thread is stupid. Its yet another rehash of history from the bad old Posties days. George said Frankie has cooties! Oooh, well Frankie said takes one to know one. Jaysus, who the [email protected]@@ cares? 

There is actually new news about doping, including slow progress on getting T and R moving. And Brunyeel's hearing, which is in like super secret stealth mode.


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## Local Hero

foto said:


> Local Hero confronts the Coolhand in an epic showdown...


It's like this:


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## foto

Local Hero said:


> It's like this:


That's pretty good, but not very realistic. In real life Clarence Thomas doesn't say anything.

Justice Clarence Thomas Speaks After Almost 7 Years Of Silence


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## helinutz

This will completely change this thread. Word on the street is that there a quite a few new interviews with your favorite players (Frankie) included.

The Loyal Lieutenant: George Hincapie, Craig Hummer: 9780007549559: Amazon.com: Books


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## Local Hero

foto said:


> That's pretty good, but not very realistic. In real life Clarence Thomas doesn't say anything.
> 
> Justice Clarence Thomas Speaks After Almost 7 Years Of Silence


Interesting. 

Did you know that it's almost run like nine separate law firms? The justices have their own teams of clerks doing research and writing briefs -- it's not like they meet in the halls to discuss things.


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## Local Hero

helinutz said:


> This will completely change this thread. Word on the street is that there a quite a few new interviews with your favorite players (Frankie) included.
> 
> The Loyal Lieutenant: George Hincapie, Craig Hummer: 9780007549559: Amazon.com: Books


Looks interesting.


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## spade2you

Bluenote said:


> This thread is stupid. Its yet another rehash of history from the bad old Posties days. George said Frankie has cooties! Oooh, well Frankie said takes one to know one. Jaysus, who the [email protected]@@ cares?


You care because you're not winning it.


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## Coolhand

One doesn't "win" Doping forum, one "survives" it.


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## Coolhand

Also


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## Big-foot

Coolhand said:


> Also


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## spade2you

Coolhand said:


> One doesn't "win" Doping forum, one "survives" it.


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## Bluenote

Coolhand said:


> One doesn't "win" Doping forum, one "survives" it.


Or trolls it, as some seem so fond of.


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## rufus

Local Hero said:


> Andreu mentored Hincapie, taught him how to use EPO, and even told him exactly where to buy it.
> 
> Link: Hincapie Claims There's More To Andreu's Doping Past | Cyclingnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was pressure from his wife Betsy that drove Andreu to give up the drugs in 2000, and the Andreus claim it cost him his job as a rider the following year.
> 
> Link: Hincapie Claims There's More To Andreu's Doping Past | Cyclingnews.com
> 
> Betsy may not even know about a lot of what Frankie did.
> 
> Link: Hincapie Claims There's More To Andreu's Doping Past | Cyclingnews.com
> 
> 
> When Frankie was taking EPO and other PEDs he didn't even realize what he was doing was wrong. He just did it. He said: "at the time, I didn't realize it was wrong. I was just doing it."
> 
> Link: Hincapie Claims There's More To Andreu's Doping Past | Cyclingnews.com


So says Hincapie. Why is he so believable?


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## helinutz

rufus said:


> So says Hincapie. Why is he so believable?


Because George is the most believable guy out there. No one really believed Lance doped until George came clean. 

He's also one of the most like-able, well respected guys ever to ride in the peloton. Its funny that most internet hacks on here, want to put Hincapie down, yet there isn't a pro around that has anything bad to say about George. George is at a lot of rides these days, I suggest you talk to him personally (even about the doping stuff) he's a pretty open and honest guy.

And what motivation does George have to lie about his relationship with Frankie. It sure seems that FA has more reason to cover up his past then George. If Betsy is as crazy as people say she is, its in FA best interest to keep perpetuating the lie, otherwise he just might find himself divorced. Betsy has already made that clear.


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## rufus

Right. Because he was so open and honest about it all those 17 years.

"No one" believed Lance doped?


----------



## helinutz

rufus said:


> Right. Because he was so open and honest about it all those 17 years.
> 
> "No one" believed Lance doped?


Prior to the USADA report and George's admission the vast majority still believed Lance was clean.

George has come clean its all in the report and his upcoming book. 

Answer this one question, what would be his motivation to make stuff up about Frankie?


----------



## rufus

Dunno. Ask Georgie the doper.


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## Doctor Falsetti

helinutz said:


> Because George is the most believable guy out there.


ut:


----------



## MR_GRUMPY

You forget that George is under Armstrong's evil spell.

You can't believe anything he says about anything...........Except........
.
.


----------



## aclinjury

helinutz said:


> Because George is the most believable guy out there. No one really believed Lance doped until George came clean.
> 
> He's also one of the most like-able, well respected guys ever to ride in the peloton. Its funny that most internet hacks on here, want to put Hincapie down, yet there isn't a pro around that has anything bad to say about George. George is at a lot of rides these days, I suggest you talk to him personally (even about the doping stuff) he's a pretty open and honest guy.
> 
> And what motivation does George have to lie about his relationship with Frankie. It sure seems that FA has more reason to cover up his past then George. If Betsy is as crazy as people say she is, its in FA best interest to keep perpetuating the lie, otherwise he just might find himself divorced. Betsy has already made that clear.



You just joined RBR and right off the bat your 5 posts went in defending Geroge. Let me guess, long time George lurker? Face it man, George was LA's biatch, and he's still serving his master.


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## Local Hero

Hincapie is really being smeared. 

It feels as though the Frankie fanboys have taken a page from Lance's playbook: Attack the messenger.


----------



## Bluenote

Local Hero said:


> Hincapie is really being smeared.
> 
> It feels as though the Frankie fanboys have taken a page from Lance's playbook: Attack the messenger.


You can start a group to support Hincape. Collect money to cover his legal and PR fees. Cross the country hosting town hall style meetings bringing awareness to how he is being wronged. Help him write an autobiography. 

It'll be just like Floyd Landis. Rally people around a flawed doper! Viva La Resistence! 

Do I believe Frankie is some poor innocent victim - no.
Do I feel sorry for George - no.


----------

