# Lost my cornering confidence.



## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

I used to be pretty good at descending and cornering. I'm not a racer, but could descend with the best in the club. 

Last year I lost it. I don't know what happened. Just seemed to start when I switched wheels. But that shouldn't have too much to do with it. 
I'm in the drops. Picking my line where I want to go. Weight on outside foot. Then the next thing I know I'm going too wide, pumping the break so I don't go off the road or in the other lane. This is continually happening. 
Today on a down hill S curve about 35 mph, I almost went in to the other lane. Missed an on-coming car by about 3 feet. 

I'm also scared to really lean the bike over. I feel the tire will slide out. The angle on the keyboard forward slash / is all I can muster now. 

Ideas?


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## Ghost234 (Jun 1, 2010)

After I crashed descending last year - my confidence descending fell apart. I was able to get it together by theend of the yea, but by then most of the season was over. 


What I did to fix it was find a local round-a-bout in a cul-de-sac. It was maybe 15 feet in diameter. I tried to circle around it, gradually getting faster and leaning the bike more and more. It helped. I also took up some mountain biking for fun and that seemed to help out. 

Might work for you, might not. It can be pretty frustrating sometimes unfortunately.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

That happened to me. I went from a fearless descender to a sketchy brake artist. It happened when I went through a lumpy, off camber turn and almost off a cliff. I lost my mojo for several months. 

Here's how I got it back: There's a descent that I used to do wide open, without braking. I'm pretty familiar with it, as it's part of our fast Saturday ride. I used to put several hard pedal strokes into it at the top and then go full tuck. After I lost my mojo was upright and on the brakes the entire time! It was so frustrating knowing that I used to pass other riders while bombing it. 

One day I was riding alone and I decided that I had enough of poor descending. I rolled from the top and committed myself to going down without brakes. I white knuckled the first part of the descent. It took every bit of willpower to stay off the brakes. When I realized that I wasn't going to crash I just flowed through it. It felt so good that I climbed back around and did it again, this time with several pedal strokes to get up to speed. 

It was liberating. And since then I've had my groove back. 


So that's my advice. Find a descent that used to be easy. And make it easy again.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

I'm overly conscious/paranoid my front is about to go. It's like I feel it on the verge of being light and the tire noise builds a bit.

I think my fair share of flats while descending contributed to it. So far I haven't gone down, and very lucky to keep avoiding it. I've accepted being slow. Rather ride the next day than save a minute.


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## y2kota (Feb 25, 2013)

Ghost234 said:


> After I crashed descending last year - my confidence descending fell apart. I was able to get it together by theend of the yea, but by then most of the season was over.
> 
> 
> What I did to fix it was find a local round-a-bout in a cul-de-sac. It was maybe 15 feet in diameter. I tried to circle around it, gradually getting faster and leaning the bike more and more. It helped. I also took up some mountain biking for fun and that seemed to help out.
> ...


The part about the cul-de-sac is great! When I get my new bike, to help get the feel for the handling of it. 

Thanks.


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## sdeeer (Aug 12, 2008)

I ate it last year at Tulsa Tough at about 29mph in the bell lap in corner 2.........Pretty much just lost the front wheel (due to accelerating too hard and not weighting right).

That crash made me ride like a weeny (tentative) on the sat course and blow a ton of energy by being more cautious and tentative in corners.

I got back on track by the end of the race but that was too late to save that one.....

As others have said, MTN and CX are good ways to test your limits. Crashing in grass typically isn't too bad. 

Sometimes I will play 'shriners' and do figure 8's with the kids in the cul-de-sac as well....


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## Duane Gran (Feb 3, 2004)

I've been there. What I did to get my mojo back:

1) Ride rollers. If you can get comfortable on these, you'll feel like you can do anything.
2) I had a nice downhill with a tight turn. I would roll down the hill from one point without breaking and the gradually move up the hill a few feet each time. In one day I did this probably 20 times and with practice the gut wrenching speed became normalized.
3) Stand beside your bike. Lean it over by about 45 degrees (much more lean than you will ever do while riding) and push hard to see if you can get the wheels to slip. You will surprise yourself. It doesn't slip easily, so what makes you think it will slip when ride it if you keep a clean line?


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

I think it's okay to go slow on road decents, because the consequences of error are just too high. (And this is coming from an avid mountain and cross racer). 

So take your time and be safe, and develop your downhill skills gradually. Stay within your limits. We don't get paid for this.

Here's a great video on dirt cornering skills. A lot of this transfers over the road it seems (especially when racing road in the rain or on dirt):
How To: Cornering and Straight Line - Pinkbike

The less available cornering traction you have, the more you approach the dirt technique.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

Poncharelli said:


> I think it's okay to go slow on road decents, because the consequences of error are just too high. (And this is coming from an avid mountain and cross racer).
> 
> So take your time and be safe, and develop your downhill skills gradually. Stay within your limits. We don't get paid for this.
> 
> ...


Your post contrasts with the previous ones in the thread it's kin of funny... but I actually agree with you. I'm the type of person who doesn't see the point in bombing down hills, risk vs reward too far out of proportion.


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

Cableguy said:


> Your post contrasts with the previous ones in the thread it's kin of funny... but I actually agree with you. I'm the type of person who doesn't see the point in bombing down hills, risk vs reward too far out of proportion.


Last season was horrible for our local scene. 1 death and two very long hospital stays for road racers from Ogden, Utah (from local race crashes). We also had a MTB race death, and another Arizona rider who died in the Logan to Jackson race. 

Last year, another guy my wife and I used to ride with died in a midweek crit in SLC. 

Really changes your perspective when it's people you know and ride with.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

Poncharelli said:


> Last season was horrible for our local scene. 1 death and two very long hospital stays for road racers from Ogden, Utah (from local race crashes). We also had a MTB race death, and another Arizona rider who died in the Logan to Jackson race.
> 
> Last year, another guy my wife and I used to ride with died in a midweek crit in SLC.
> 
> Really changes your perspective when it's people you know and ride with.


It's always painful to hear about stuff like this. Can I ask what happened to your friend during the crit in SLC? Was there a fast descent? Did a car interfere? Can't say I've heard of someone dying during a crit before


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## The Human G-Nome (Aug 26, 2002)

I used to be the best descender on my race team of 55 members, and the rest of my team volunteered me to teach some descending clinics one year. Here are a couple of notes I would share:

<b>- Confidence in your equipment.</b> If it's not there, then it's hard to be a good descender. Second-guessing yourself mechanically keeps the fear in you and makes you tentative. Make sure that your equipment is sound before hitting the road for every ride.

<b>- Bike Fit.</b> If your bike doesn't fit you well, and you're uncomfortable in the drops, you're probably going to be a really poor descender. Sometimes, the right sized rig is all it takes to turn someone from a terrible descender to at least an adequate one.

<b>- Position and weight shift.</b> This one is huge. You hear lots of folks talk about counter steering, shifting their weight from side to size, weighting a certain pedal, etc., but you don't hear enough about your position on the bike aft and fore. Most poor descenders are tentative descenders, and most tentative descenders are pulling backwards, sitting up, pushing their bike out in front of them with their arms rather than putting their weight right over the front wheel where it should be. You want almost all your weight over the front wheel and not the rear wheel. This is a tough one for most people to grasp.

Let me say that I have also been through this in some big ways. I once had 5 front tire blowouts on a single 90 miles, mountainous ride, and 4 of those blowouts happened during fast descents. I will say that that messed with my mind in a huge way, and for months and months, I was always picturing my front tire blowing out when I would descend. I feared it so much that I just sold the wheels and jettisoned the tires. That said, it did give me confidence that I could also survive such a blowout without going down in the process.

I have also crashed hard on several descents, even one time in a race on an off-camber turn. The guy in front of my completely blew the turn, I had no where to go but off the road, and I ended up going down a crevasse. I have also lost traction in a rain soaked, oily descent once. Not exactly confidence inspiring. 

Finally, I was off my bike for 3 years until just this last July. It took a good 3 or 4 months before I finally started feeling good about descending again. It's not like riding a bike! You forget!


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

Cableguy said:


> Can I ask what happened to your friend during the crit in SLC? Was there a fast descent? Did a car interfere? Can't say I've heard of someone dying during a crit before


Sort of a freak accident. I heard that he touched wheels with someone and fell straight onto his head/face. He just got into racing and was doing C flights at the crits series. 

I've never done this course but it does appear to have fast downhill. 
DLD Crit Licensed to Ill Edition - YouTube


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## Damon_Faulkner (Mar 5, 2013)

Sounds like a good idea. I'll definitely have to try that. I crashed a couple of months ago too and lost my confidence on turns.


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## PoorCyclist (Oct 14, 2010)

Duane Gran said:


> I've been there. What I did to get my mojo back:
> 
> 3) Stand beside your bike. Lean it over by about 45 degrees (much more lean than you will ever do while riding) and push hard to see if you can get the wheels to slip. You will surprise yourself. It doesn't slip easily, so what makes you think it will slip when ride it if you keep a clean line?


clean line and clean ground..
sprinkle some sand, gravel or silt on your ground and repeat test.


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

> It doesn't slip easily, so what makes you think it will slip when ride it if you keep a clean line?


I used to have Ksyrium SL's and switched to DA C-24's. Cornering on the bike changed for me. With the DA's it feels like I'm tipping over instead of leaning over? Plus, I think the heavier rim on the SL's felt more solid under me. I think the DA's are a wider rim which changes the shape of the tire? 
I then lowered my tire pressure. I'm 160# and was running 115psi. I'm now down to 100psi on 23's, which helped a little? 
I think this could all be subjective and not what is actually happening from the wheel switch, only thing I can figure out. 

I have these thoughts that if I lean to far that the rim will touch the pavement or that the tire won't hold the grip in a lean. 
I did do this..


> Stand beside your bike. Lean it over by about 45 degrees (much more lean than you will ever do while riding) and push hard to see if you can get the wheels to slip. You will surprise yourself. It doesn't slip easily,


 and it didn't slip out on my smooth garage floor.

I do have a pair of Easton EA90 Aero wheels (deeper rim) that I have more confidence on, but I also don't use those for climbing so I haven't taxed them on a descent.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

Poncharelli said:


> Last season was horrible for our local scene. 1 death and two very long hospital stays for road racers from Ogden, Utah (from local race crashes). We also had a MTB race death, and another Arizona rider who died in the Logan to Jackson race.
> 
> Last year, another guy my wife and I used to ride with died in a midweek crit in SLC.
> 
> Really changes your perspective when it's people you know and ride with.


I'm in Utah too, and all of that wrecks havoc with my wife. I was right there when the guy went off the bridge during LOTOJA...within two minutes anyways. My wife thought for sure it was me...crazy stuff sometimes. 

I told her to quit being so damn paranoid =)


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

Poncharelli said:


> Sort of a freak accident. I heard that he touched wheels with someone and fell straight onto his head/face. He just got into racing and was doing C flights at the crits series.
> 
> I've never done this course but it does appear to have fast downhill.
> DLD Crit Licensed to Ill Edition - YouTube


My friend Mike who owns Canyon Bicycles bad a serious crash on that same course due to what I see as a serious flaw, which is one reason why I won't ride it. There is a section where the riders are going both directions on the same section of road. Mike was coming down the hill about 35 mph to make the left turn when the field (he had been dropped and was playing catchup) was making that same turn, just coming the opposite way. Someone on the inside of the right turn the field was making swung it wide and pushed the entire field across the line at about 25mph. My buddy hit two guys had on for a 60mph impact. They all went to the hospital, two of them for two or more weeks. That course is too dangerous.


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## Damon_Faulkner (Mar 5, 2013)

PoorCyclist said:


> clean line and clean ground..
> sprinkle some sand, gravel or silt on your ground and repeat test.



What's the correct method to use when rounding a corner? Do you just lean over? Where is is your weight supposed to shift?


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

Cyclin Dan said:


> My friend Mike who owns Canyon Bicycles bad a serious crash on that same course .


Wow, i heard that he was out for a long time, but didn't know he crashed at DLD. I'm glad he's made a good comeback as he was killin it at the cross races last fall. 

It's also pretty awesome what he does to support young cyclist (Canyon's U23 squad). He's taken in 3 cyclist from Ogden. I still ride with them every once in a while, but they've gotten way too fast!!!


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## serious (May 2, 2006)

Personally, the older I get the less confidence I have in any bike related activity. I am almost 51 and somehow that "invincible feeling" I had when younger has evaporated.

And I am an experienced mountain biker with tons of races on a rigid singlespeed bike, so my skills are decent. Still, the thought of falling in a high speed turn on the road just freaks me out.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

I used to be pretty good at descending and cornering, then I took an arrow to the knee


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Cableguy said:


> I used to be pretty good at descending and cornering, then I took an arrow to the knee


An arrow? There's gotta be a story there.


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## samh (May 5, 2004)

*How do you know you're doing this right? 

"Position and weight shift.* This one is huge. You hear lots of folks talk about counter steering, shifting their weight from side to size, weighting a certain pedal, etc., but you don't hear enough about your position on the bike aft and fore. Most poor descenders are tentative descenders, and most tentative descenders are pulling backwards, sitting up, pushing their bike out in front of them with their arms rather than putting their weight right over the front wheel where it should be. You want almost all your weight over the front wheel and not the rear wheel. This is a tough one for most people to grasp."


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

*Potential Spoiler Alert*


Interesting I found this today, because I was watching Stage 2 of Paris-Nice this morning while getting ready for work. On a fairly innocuous corner, Bouhanni (yellow jersey wearer) went down hard. The slo-mo showed his front wheel just wash out in the corner and him hit the ground face first. His mouth/nose were bleeding badly. Of course, my wife never watches cycling, but saw this crash and kept saying how bad it looked.


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

jspharmd said:


> Stage 2 of Paris-Nice


My wife and i were watching Stage 1 of Paris-Nice and we couldn't help but notice how many crashes were happening (four during stage one?). 

The frequency of crashes in pro races is getting ridiculous.


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## The Human G-Nome (Aug 26, 2002)

It is going to feel wrong at first because when you are tentative, the last thing you want to do is lean forward. However, once you get there, you'll know because you will begin to feel safer in corners. Just slowly focus on really leaning your body into the curve - that will mean both leaning toward the bend, but also shifting forward toward the bend. The bike will go where your body goes, and the corner is out in front of you. 



samh said:


> *How do you know you're doing this right?
> 
> "Position and weight shift.* This one is huge. You hear lots of folks talk about counter steering, shifting their weight from side to size, weighting a certain pedal, etc., but you don't hear enough about your position on the bike aft and fore. Most poor descenders are tentative descenders, and most tentative descenders are pulling backwards, sitting up, pushing their bike out in front of them with their arms rather than putting their weight right over the front wheel where it should be. You want almost all your weight over the front wheel and not the rear wheel. This is a tough one for most people to grasp."


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## climbinthebigring (Mar 13, 2011)

When I'm training I do not take a lot of risks descending. I just don't have confidence in myself when I'm out there on my own. I have the skills from riding with some of the best DH mountain bike riders in the world and also from very skilled roadie descenders but I don't even try and hold their wheel in training. Put me in a race and its balls to the wall. I'm all over my bike, counter steering and shifting my weight constantly.... So I would start racing again and see if that ups your confidence.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Now before you go all balls to the wall. Have you consider some of this question.

Why do you need to go faster? Is it important?

I'm usually a fast descender, not the fastest, but definitely on the fast side. But in an 8-mile descend with an average grade of 4-5%, I usually can only beat the slow lady riders of our group by 1 minute, if even that! Yet, I'm taking on a lot more risks.

the fastest descenders of our group, i'm talking about guys keeping up with motorcycles, guys who can rail tight downhill banked corner at 35+ mph (when most are doing 20-25 mph max), well they beat me in less than a minute.

In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't make much sense to put life at risk for an extra 1 minute of adrenaline rush


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Kudos for beating the slow lady riders by 1 minute on the 8 mile, 4-5% grade descents! 

But I think you missed the point. It's not that cornering fast is merely more fun than corning slow. The problem is that it's no fun to descend when you've lost your confidence. When I lost my mojo I was out of my comfort zone for much of the descent. In fact, for a while I dreaded descents -- the more I thought about it the slower I went. 

Now that I got it back I can enjoy it again. And go fast. It's not about being the fastest; there are better descenders out there. The point is that I can enjoy descending again.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

Local Hero said:


> It's not that cornering fast is merely more fun than corning slow. The problem is that it's no fun to descend when you've lost your confidence. When I lost my mojo I was out of my comfort zone for much of the descent. In fact, for a while I dreaded descents -- the more I thought about it the slower I went.
> 
> Now that I got it back I can enjoy it again. And go fast. It's not about being the fastest; there are better descenders out there. The point is that I can enjoy descending again.


Well how far you are outside your comfort zone depends a lot on what you choose to descend. So how far do you want to take it? A poor descender might just be happy sticking to basic descents in the local area. Now if you can get to the point where you're comfortable bombing down twisty, epic hills at high speed without crashing that may be great and all... until you crash again. And yes, if you ride a bike regularly you should accept the possibility or crashing... but do you have to crash while turning at 50mph, potentially into an oncoming car or over a cliff?


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Cableguy said:


> Well how far you are outside your comfort zone depends a lot on what you choose to descend. So how far do you want to take it? A poor descender might just be happy sticking to basic descents in the local area. Now if you can get to the point where you're comfortable bombing down twisty, epic hills at high speed without crashing that may be great and all... until you crash again. And yes, if you ride a bike regularly you should accept the possibility or crashing... but do you have to crash while turning at 50mph, potentially into an oncoming car or over a cliff?


I'm not sure if I was clear. 

Cornering and descending with confidence isn't about taking risks or going as fast as possible IMO. It's about feeling like you are in control. (And when you're in control you brake less. And subsequently go faster.) 

Somehow you've connected confident cornering/descending with frequent crashing?


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

Local Hero said:


> Somehow you've connected confident cornering/descending with frequent crashing?


I understand you're not talking about setting speed records, but being confident going down a steep and twisty hill is quite a bit riskier than being confident going down something simpler like Mt. Lemmon. In both cases you might say you're in control and confident, however there is a lot less room for error in the first case. And no matter how many times you say you're in control... you can't entirely be. Unexpected stuff happens. I'm of the opinion crashing at 40mph+ should be avoided at all costs especially when the result can be going over a cliff or into an oncoming car, so I'm content being "comfortable and confident" going down the simpler descents. 

Even though my descending skills are relatively poor, because I choose not to ride more technical descents it's not a problem and I have fun descending. This is why I asked how far do you want to take it? How many times have we heard the story, "I was a great descender, until..."


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Cableguy said:


> I understand you're not talking about setting speed records, but being confident going down a steep and twisty hill is quite a bit riskier than being confident going down something simpler like Mt. Lemmon. In both cases you might say you're in control and confident, however there is a lot less room for error in the first case. And no matter how many times you say you're in control... you can't entirely be. Unexpected stuff happens. I'm of the opinion crashing at 40mph+ should be avoided at all costs especially when the result can be going over a cliff or into an oncoming car, so I'm content being "comfortable and confident" going down the simpler descents.
> 
> Even though my descending skills are relatively poor, because I choose not to ride more technical descents it's not a problem and I have fun descending. This is why I asked how far do you want to take it? How many times have we heard the story, "I was a great descender, until..."


For sure. 

I think there's a distinction in there somewhere and at least for me it didn't have too much to do with worrying about the unexpected. I went from being comfortable and braking when necessary to being uncomfortable and always being on the brakes. When I was always on the brakes it wasn't because I was worried about the unexpected; I was just uncomfortable.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Since we're talking about cornering, is there a good way to go fast through a corner that has a 50% chance at some gravel in it?


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## serious (May 2, 2006)

spade2you said:


> Since we're talking about cornering, is there a good way to go fast through a corner that has a 50% chance at some gravel in it?


Yes! Slow down or get comfortable with a 50% chance of falling.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

serious said:


> Yes! Slow down or get comfortable with a 50% chance of falling.


Gotcha. My usual route has 2-3 places where I could get some speed cornering in. They get sprinkled with gravel whenever it rains or farm machinery goes by. Last year, it was much more farm machinery than rain. I think it was clear only 2-3 times last summer.


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## lopott (Jun 27, 2010)

A switch to 25c tires has helped. Lower psi and more rubber on the road


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## thirstyman (May 6, 2007)

Have you looked carefully at you new wheels? I read most of the comments but have seen no one mention anything about the issue being related to the new wheels you mentioned. Wheels can have a huge effect on bike handling at speed. 

Do you notice more trouble with left or right bends? How does the bike handle no hands with the new wheels versus old? Wheels that are not properly dished to be exactly centered in the frame can have huge effects on shifts of balance required for cornering. It sounds unbelievable but a dish that is off by as little as 1mm (particularly in the front) can really complicate things. 

Did you go from shallow to deep aero wheels? At high speeds, I find deep wheels need more steering input. Of course they are more influenced by cross winds which can crop up just at the wrong time and you can end up fighting as you attempt a curvy descent.


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## WaynefromOrlando (Mar 3, 2010)

The key may also be "when I switched wheels". I am always very aware of my tires, whether on my motorcycle and the tires AND wheels on my bicycle. I know which tires and wheels work, and I don't mess with that unless I absolutely have to.

Try switching back to your old wheels with the same tires you used to run and see how that works.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

spade2you said:


> Gotcha. My usual route has 2-3 places where I could get some speed cornering in. They get sprinkled with gravel whenever it rains or farm machinery goes by. Last year, it was much more farm machinery than rain. I think it was clear only 2-3 times last summer.


Went out yesterday and there's gravel in most of my corners at the moment. Hopefully they're clear soon so I can get practice cornering. Racin' starts soon.


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## Alkan (Jun 30, 2011)

I personally think that you need to do some reading on the racing line. On steeper descents, you have to be able to brake hard if you want to maximize your velocity. When you start braking depends on the power in your brakes. You do NOT want to take the exact path of least resistance. You should start on the outside of the path of least resistance, brake hard, cut into the turn and gradually move towards the apex of the turn. After passing the apex of the turn, you should be able to accelerate extremely fast on the outside of the line of least resistance, which will be a much straighter line.

You should be approaching your turns more slowly so that you do not have to brake during the turn.

Here's the racing line for vehicles with a lot more braking and acceleration power than a bike:

View attachment 277342


You're probably taking the "oops" line. Given that on a hill, if you have good brakes, you can slow down very quickly and accelerate much more quickly because you can add the force of your acceleration to the force of gravity, you'll be able to take a line more similar to a car's line.

If I was in your predicament, I'd personally brake harder than necessary before each turn and gradually increase my speed through the turns. In fact, slow practice will allow you to train your brain to get these fundamentals down much more solidly.

On a flat, you're better off on a path of least resistance and saving your energy unless the turn is particularly sharp.

Also, unlike cars, your velocity on the bike is normally the same velocity you can take around turns, so the path of least resistance is ideal: I can descend on Mt. Lemmon without using the brakes, moving along as fast as I can, and likewise, I just take the path of least resistance.

I have a habit of taking the racing line no matter what vehicle I'm in (bike or car) and just create the boundaries of the turn based on the limitations around me.


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## illrider (Sep 26, 2009)

mine is still lost i recently broke my back in 3 places and leg and wrist plus few ribs and some nasty tree rash that's permanent due to a man vs tree at 40 mph at winters road race in nor cal. still afraid of turns right now lol


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## Terex (Jan 3, 2005)

Ride with some good descenders when they're not really nailing it and follow their line. Do some hill repeats on a smaller hill or part of a hill - any place where you're taking smaller bites and you know you're near the bottom with a safe roll out. Relax. In northern NM, I fear strong winds and rock slides when I'm on a descent.

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when my fear is gone I will turn and face fear's path, and only I will remain."


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## lootcorp (Feb 27, 2013)

Well in the grand scheme of things I'm still pretty inexperienced (this is my third year after getting back on the bike) and I can't say I've ever had a lot of confidence in descents. I'm trying to work on bike handling skills this year, and these tips in this thread are helpful. I've lost the invincibility shroud of youth and am now trying to gain the confidence to go faster and corner tighter... I feel like the OP's description - afraid my wheels are going to slide out, and not turning tight enough (drifting over towards the oncoming lane until I have to really hit the brakes to get back on track).

Any advice you guys have on drills/practice to get better at this is always appreciated!


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## Eric_H (Feb 5, 2004)

@lootcorp - One suggestion I will make after reading your post is that if you are swinging out too wide then you are probably not taking the best line, which is ideally outside/inside/outside. And perhaps carrying too much speed. Braking needs to be done before the cornering starts. Braking while trying to turn will make the bike want to stand up and go straight, plus it reduces traction and is downright dangerous if the road is at all wet.

Another thing I will throw out is to focus on being relaxed in your arms and grip. Make sure you are not in the drops with your arms locked gripping the bars too tight. You need to think of your arms as suspension, keep them bent with your chest and torso low. Any bumps or irregularities need to be absorbed by you, not have you transmit force back to the bike by being locked and rigid. Growing up on motorcycles and racing motocross taught me the importance of relaxing. Grip the bars too tight and lock the arms in MX and your forearms will go lactic and get "arm pump" very quickly.

Finally, assess the risk/reward situations, especially in a non-racing environment. I grew up riding motorcycles and raced motocross for 11 years, raced BMX and MTB in my past and have road raced for almost 20 years. My bike handling is pretty solid, yet 18 months ago I crashed hard in a wet corner that I have ridden around hundreds of times. I was simply off my line due to another rider's presence and carrying too much speed. I now have a nice clavicle bump from an AC shoulder separation. Honestly, since that day I have been a little more cautious in the corners and on descents in non-racing scenarios. In my mid-40s now and I don't heal nearly as fast. And looking back, I could definitely see that I was ripe for a crash as I was continually pushing it hard on descents and in corners when there really was no reason to do so.


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## Zeet (Mar 24, 2013)

I've noticed that my cornering confidence level is greater on steel than on CF...


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## salbert (Apr 22, 2013)

Hi - Its a real pain loosing your confidence. I was in a similar situation a few years ago but I got help from a guy called Lee Spelzini who's a hypnotherapist. 
You might be able to find him again if you look him up on Google. 
Good luck


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## Randy99CL (Mar 27, 2013)

Terex said:


> "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when my fear is gone I will turn and face fear's path, and only I will remain."


Still my all-time favorite book, and series.


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## Alkan (Jun 30, 2011)

YES!

Fear exists for a reason. Sometimes it's BEST not to risk your life around corners.

I've come to this conclusion for myself after some years of irresponsible, arrogant, reckless driving (I was stupid as a teenager) and riding and having a few close calls (thankfully no crashes).

Assess the value of going fast around a turn. How badly can you get hurt if you fall? Could you die? Are you in a race? Are there other people you're endangering? These are all valid concerns.


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## PoorCyclist (Oct 14, 2010)

There is fear but there is also learning of proper technique to make yourself safer.. good stuff in this thread


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## JasonLopez (Aug 19, 2012)

Buy a motorcycle.

Report back in a year.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

JasonLopez said:


> Buy a motorcycle.
> 
> Report back in a year.


Also, be sure to fill out organ donor card.


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

So I thought I'd check in.
I'd like to also say thanks to some of you for your tips. 
1. Getting my weight more forward on my bike has helped. 
2. Counter-steering. This has helped the most. Seems like I slowly stopped doing this. Don't know why. 

Also I recently purchased a set of wheels for my wife's bike. I tried them out for a couple weeks. They are a little heavier and stiffer than mine and that gave me a more stable feel. 
I won't be changing wheels, but it was interesting to feel a slight "difference" with a "heavier" wheel. 

I still have a few times cornering where I freak out, but I feel like I'm getting more back on track. Usually the best corners I have are the ones where I don't think about it.


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