# What is the difference between track wheels and road wheels?



## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

Is it mainly the hubs? For example the Campy Shamal. Some are described as track wheels; some wheelsets there is no mention of it. Can they be converted from one to the other? I imagine that's a big job involving new hubs and perhaps spokes.


----------



## mytorelli (Dec 19, 2004)

dunno about the hubs, but track specific wheels are much different than road wheels. Here are some differences:

braking surface is non existent, in other words if you use a brake it will tear the wheel up
there are a lot more spokes (32 vs 16) because of strength
hubs are bolt on so the wheel doesnt move.

the last two are because the most powerful track riders can put a lot of power out.


----------



## bopApocalypse (Aug 30, 2006)

Clevor said:


> Is it mainly the hubs? For example the Campy Shamal. Some are described as track wheels; some wheelsets there is no mention of it. Can they be converted from one to the other? I imagine that's a big job involving new hubs and perhaps spokes.


I can't speak in particular about the shamals...

In general, the only necessary difference is the rear hub - Front wheels are front wheels...

Rear hubs - track bikes are fixed gears - no coasting. instead of just sliding a cassette on to the hub, a single cog threads onto a track hub.

As far as spokes go, they just need to be the right length. Some places require certain spoke counts (NJS bikes in Japan require 36 spoke wheels, but there's nothing preventing you from building a 16 spoke track wheel...)

Conversion? Probably not worth your time and effort, unless you _really_ want a wheel w/ shamal rims.


----------



## tcruse11 (Jun 9, 2006)

The Shamal is a road wheel. The rear hub is not set up for fixed gear.


----------



## Bianco (Sep 22, 2004)

Track wheels (rear) use a 120mm spacing, instead of the 130mm spacing used by road. PRO-LITE makes a wheel that utilizes a 2-in-1 hub design so you can use the same wheel on road or track. Zipp allows you to convert its disc wheel from one to another.


----------



## Mark McM (Jun 18, 2005)

*Nutted track axles vs. QR road axles*



bopApocalypse said:



> In general, the only necessary difference is the rear hub - Front wheels are front wheels...


Well, almost. By tradition (and sometimes by the rules, depending on the rules of the velodrome you are riding on) the wheels on track bikes are held on with nuts instead of quick release skewers. Therefore, track hubs use much longer axles (which must protrude far enough past the drop outs to screw a nut on), and usually use solid instead of hollow axles.


----------



## Mark McM (Jun 18, 2005)

*Shamal - road and track*



Clevor said:


> Is it mainly the hubs? For example the Campy Shamal. Some are described as track wheels; some wheelsets there is no mention of it. Can they be converted from one to the other? I imagine that's a big job involving new hubs and perhaps spokes.


The Shamal was sold in both road and track (pista) versions. Both versions used the same rim, but different spokes and hubs. If you wanted to convert from road to track, you could only save the rims.


----------



## MaestroXC (Sep 15, 2005)

I don't think the new gold Shamal comes in a track version, though. In fact I am certain that they do not. Campy does make a separate Pista wheelset, for track use.


----------



## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

*braking surfaces...*

Many "track" wheels use road-type rims, but some do not. Like Mytorelli said, if you've got a track-specific rim, it will not have a braking surface whatsoever, so using it on the road is a Bad Idea.

Also, you can't just swap from nutted axles to QR's, like some people I have met seem to think. You can put tiny not-very-quick nutted dealies on regular, hollow-axle hubs, but that's something different.


----------



## Mark McM (Jun 18, 2005)

Argentius said:


> Also, you can't just swap from nutted axles to QR's, like some people I have met seem to think. You can put tiny not-very-quick nutted dealies on regular, hollow-axle hubs, but that's something different.


That depends on the hubs. There are no nutted axles available for Campagnolo OS hubs, for example. Most "boutique" hubs (DT, American Classic, Chris King, etc.) use special proprietary axles that can not be retrofitted. However, all Shimano hubs (except the new 10spd only hubs with aluminum axles) use standard 9mm front and 10mm rear threaded axles, and can be converted to nutted axles. In fact, Surly makes a converstion kit to convert most Shimano freehubs to a true fixed gear track hub:


----------



## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

What's confusing about the original Shamals is they came in a bewildering array of configurations. I've seen them advertised as road and as track wheels. Some versions came with 12 spokes fr-and-r, 16 spokes fr-and-r, 14 fr/16 r, etc. I believe one version had Ti 'axles'. All of them had braking surfaces and quick release skewers. The latest version was black and had rims shorter by 3 mm and basically used 9-speed Record hubs. I heard the early 8-speed versions are difficult to convert to 10-speed.

I've asked Campy tech support to sort things out but even they have difficulty, nor is there anything on their web site. If anybody has a link on the evolution of Campy Shamals, I'd appreciate it. Sounds like it would make a good PhD thesis .

The Shamal Ultras came out last year and bears nothing in resemblance to the original except one word in the name.


----------



## Mark McM (Jun 18, 2005)

*Shamal evolution*



Clevor said:


> What's confusing about the original Shamals is they came in a bewildering array of configurations. I've seen them advertised as road and as track wheels. Some versions came with 12 spokes fr-and-r, 16 spokes fr-and-r, 14 fr/16 r, etc. I believe one version had Ti 'axles'. All of them had braking surfaces and quick release skewers. The latest version was black and had rims shorter by 3 mm and basically used 9-speed Record hubs. I heard the early 8-speed versions are difficult to convert to 10-speed.
> 
> I've asked Campy tech support to sort things out but even they have difficulty, nor is there anything on their web site. If anybody has a link on the evolution of Campy Shamals, I'd appreciate it. Sounds like it would make a good PhD thesis .
> 
> The Shamal Ultras came out last year and bears nothing in resemblance to the original except one word in the name.


It wasn't so much that the Shamals were offered in multiple configurations, they simply evolved a bit over the 8 years of so they were made. Here's a quick run-down of how they varied over the years:

1994: Shamals introduced. Basic features: 42mm deep rim, tubular only; 16 bladed spokes front and rear; 8spd only (9spd hadn't been invented yet); used standard hubs, same as other Campagnolo hubs at the time, except drilled for only 16 spokes and slotted for bladed spokes.

1995: Clincher version introduced, sold concurently with tubular version (both versions had 42mm deep rims)

1996: Number of spokes changed from 16 to 12 spokes, both front and rear. Traditional type hubs replaced with "HPW" hubs, which were hour glass shaped and used straight pull spokes. Rear wheel had Ti Axle.

1997: 9spd versions (tubular and clincher) introduced - only difference was freehub body. 8spd versions sold concurrently during this year. This year the track version ("Shamal Pista") introduced. Track version was tubular only and used traditional flanged track hubs and bladed elbow-type spokes.

1998: Number of spokes in rear wheel went from 12 back up to 16 (12 spoke rear wheel apparanly had some reliability problems). 8spd versions discontinue.

1999: Hubs changed from standard steel or Ti axles to oversized aluminum axles.

2000: No change. 10spd was introduced in 2000, but 10spd cassettes fit on 9spd freehubs.

2001: No change. This was the last year for both the clincher and tubular road Shamals and Shamal Pista track version.

.........

2007: New Shamal Ultra released, with much shallower rim and triplet spoke lacing in the rear.


Earlier 8spd Shamals can be converted to 9spd/10spd, with a few minor caveats. Here's a thread with information about the conversion: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=48975&highlight=shamal+8spd+9spd+freehub


----------



## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

Mark McM said:


> It wasn't so much that the Shamals were offered in multiple configurations, they simply evolved a bit over the 8 years of so they were made. Here's a quick run-down of how they varied over the years:
> 
> 1994: Shamals introduced. Basic features: 42mm deep rim, tubular only; 16 bladed spokes front and rear; 8spd only (9spd hadn't been invented yet); used standard hubs, same as other Campagnolo hubs at the time, except drilled for only 16 spokes and slotted for bladed spokes.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mark, that sure help a lot!

And you are right, I heard the 12-spokes are fragile and the rims tend to crack after about a year. A lot of the Shamals selling on Ebay are the 12-spoke HPW Tis.


----------



## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

Clevor said:


> Thanks Mark, that sure help a lot!
> 
> And you are right, I heard the 12-spokes are fragile and the rims tend to crack after about a year. A lot of the Shamals selling on Ebay are the 12-spoke HPW Tis.


I haven't owned a pair of the 12/12 wheels, but my 16/16 wheels were just about bulletproof. LOVED those wheels IF the course suited em: ie not too many abrupt changes of speed.

My advice: go with 404s. As aero (or maybe more) and LOTS easier to get spun up to speed. You don't go with the first acceleration, yer OTB quickly. Ask me how many times it happened to me! Its a LONG row to hoe if yer OTB and wanna get back on!

M


----------



## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

MShaw said:


> I haven't owned a pair of the 12/12 wheels, but my 16/16 wheels were just about bulletproof. LOVED those wheels IF the course suited em: ie not too many abrupt changes of speed.
> 
> My advice: go with 404s. As aero (or maybe more) and LOTS easier to get spun up to speed. You don't go with the first acceleration, yer OTB quickly. Ask me how many times it happened to me! Its a LONG row to hoe if yer OTB and wanna get back on!
> 
> M


With two sets of carbon tubulars, I'm not planning on riding the Shamals much. I'm more interested in collector purposes. It's the usual: since they are no longer made they've achieved cult status. I know guys are falling all over themselves bidding for sets on Ebay.

They were very aerodynamic in their day; in fact, I believe the 41 mm rims were on a par with modern carbon 48 mm rims. But in that deep dish configuration, the Shamals were pigs of course, weighing near 2000 gms.


----------



## Val_Garou (Apr 30, 2002)

mytorelli said:


> braking surface is non existent, in other words if you use a brake it will tear the wheel up


I know this thread is now a discussion of Shamals, but in case anyone else is reading, I thought I'd point out that this is a little bit hyperbolic. A track rim might not have a machined braking surface, but that just means it won't stop very well and the finish will be wrecked by the pads. It doesn't mean the wheel will collapse if you squeeze it with a caliper.


----------



## Colintoso (Mar 27, 2014)

Argentius said:


> Many "track" wheels use road-type rims, but some do not. Like Mytorelli said, if you've got a track-specific rim, it will not have a braking surface whatsoever, so using it on the road is a Bad Idea.
> 
> Also, you can't just swap from nutted axles to QR's, like some people I have met seem to think. You can put tiny not-very-quick nutted dealies on regular, hollow-axle hubs, but that's something different.



*You are right that track wheels not being compatible with brakes and the hubs hard hard to find i have a hed3 and a zipp super9 disc both tubular making it harder for the street i have done it before out of curiosity and crosswinds are pretty bad this shows track wheels are track only!*


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Colintoso said:


> *You are right that track wheels not being compatible with brakes and the hubs hard hard to find i have a hed3 and a zipp super9 disc both tubular making it harder for the street i have done it before out of curiosity and crosswinds are pretty bad this shows track wheels are track only!*


1) Please get some punctuation. And no need for *bold* for the entire post. 
2) Over 6 yr old thread, pretty sure none of these guys are even around any more.


----------

