# Brake Shudder?



## DRLski (Apr 26, 2003)

So...I just finished putting together my cross bike for the season and am using a pair of Frogg Leg brakes from last season (used pads) on a Ritchey WCS fork and I'm using a seatpost brake hanger on the stem instead for the front brakes. Anyways, I get unbelievable brake shudder, I'm talking so badly that I think my fork is going to blow up on me. I tried swapping out the rear pads for the front pads and I get the same result except that when I had two different pads installed (as I was installing both of them) it wasn't as bad. I don't know how much better I could possible toe the pads in. Should I just try to buy new pads and hope that solves the issue? I've had shudder before but have always been able to fix it. Would the angle of the stem hanger make a difference? It's a 100mm stem.


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

I have the same problem with my Empella and Frogs. I'm going to try Tektro cr720's in the front and see what happens. They have adjustable toe-in and don't cost a huge amount of $ I've heard thatusing Koolstop pads can help. My want to check that out.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

DRLski said:


> So...I just finished putting together my cross bike for the season and am using a pair of Frogg Leg brakes from last season (used pads) on a Ritchey WCS fork ........I get unbelievable brake shudder.


I just had a custom cyclocross frame made and I ordered it with a WCS fork. I read around here, and my frame maker backed it up, that with a cantilever front brake and a carbon fork, I would probably have shudder.

The builder suggested using a Tektro Mini-v brake on the front. He had only known one case of shudder with that brake on all the CX frames that they had made and supplied with C/F forks.

I only have two rides so far on the bike but the fork is totally shudder-free and the (inexpensive) brake is dead quiet, smooth and powerful.


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## jroden (Jun 15, 2004)

I have a carbon fiber fork and it did not shudder when I had the mini v brakes, but I'm trying the pauls on the front and it shudders a lot. I guess I'm going to just live with it.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

jroden said:


> I have a carbon fiber fork and it did not shudder when I had the mini v brakes, but I'm trying the pauls on the front and it shudders a lot. I guess I'm going to just live with it.


I wanted Pauls but I did not want shudder. So......I went with a Paul Touring on the rear and the Mini-v on the front. I'd love to try a Paul on the front but I don't really want an $85 experiment. The Mini-v is fine and for $14 is an incredible brake - easy to set up, powerful enough and quiet. Tough to beat that. I guess one of its downfalls it that it will make the CX purists gasp for air.


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## spacemanrides (Aug 11, 2006)

I have the exact same set up on my A bike. Some people will say that you need to bend the arms of the pads to get the correct toe, but i found that just taking a file to the brake pad and filing the front of the pad on an angle took away the issue.

It is a lot cheaper than mini V's.


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## gewilli (Dec 18, 2006)

here is a little nugget for ya zoo...

First set up on the cross bike, old original Deore (non-low profile) brakes. Koolstop pads (black because that was what i had in the drawer). First month and a half of commuting.

No Shudder. 

Now? 

Shudder if I get the combo just right.

What changed?

Well i actually used my brake pads and wore them down so now, instead of having perfect toe... well... they are hitting pretty damn flat. IE not so good.

that said - way less shaking on this fork than the fork on the croll... but somehow - it teaches ya DON'T BRAKE 
(and no brakes makes ya faster - supposedly - i'm still working on that part)


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## colinr (Nov 20, 2006)

DRLski said:


> I don't know how much better I could possible toe the pads in


I have fixed all my shuddering issues with aggressive toe-in. Can you even toe in froglegs without cutting the pad or bending the post? (*cough* terrible design *cough*)

Unless you can post a pic of your brakes being "wicked toed in," I think one solution is to just toe them in more.


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## gewilli (Dec 18, 2006)

^^ what he said... (stupid moronic 1960s design btw - TRP Carbon or not)

a common comment:

"Well it wasn't shuttering when I got it new... and now it is? What happened????"


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## jroden (Jun 15, 2004)

The mini v's really are nice, I just found them to sit a tad close to the rim, plus getting the tire out was sort of a pain.


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## w98seeng (May 28, 2008)

I had bad shudder on an old road bike with older aluminum rims and caliper brakes. I cleaned the rims with Castrol Super Clean and a light scrubber sponge. It worked miracles.

Just make sure you wash it off well as it can leave a white film on the rims. Dry them with a towel and it will be OK.


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

w98seeng said:


> I had bad shudder on an old road bike with older aluminum rims and caliper brakes. I cleaned the rims with Castrol Super Clean and a light scrubber sponge. It worked miracles.
> 
> Just make sure you wash it off well as it can leave a white film on the rims. Dry them with a towel and it will be OK.


IMO, any technique to solving CX brake issues that requires perfectly clean rims is a non-starter. Just IMO.


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

Yea. It'll stay clean for how long? In a cross race? (or even "cross riding" for those non-racers).


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## DRLski (Apr 26, 2003)

gewilli said:


> that said - way less shaking on this fork than the fork on the croll... but somehow - it teaches ya DON'T BRAKE
> (and no brakes makes ya faster - supposedly - i'm still working on that part)


yea...tell that to the course tape I get tangled up in because I went down the hill to fast and couldn't make the turn in time...

Anyways, I swapped the front brake out with a Tektro Mini-V (which I already had laying around) w/ a Travel Agent (doesn't give me as much clearance as I was expecting). Kept the Frogg Legs on the back. Seems to be working...

Now all I have to figure out is the clicking on my crankset...man the pursuit of a noise free bike is a relentless job.


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## w98seeng (May 28, 2008)

By cleaning the rims, I don't mean the mud, grime and crap that accumulates on bikes from everyday use, I meant the build up of brake pad material that accumulates over time.


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## the mayor (Jul 8, 2004)

Zoo...just break out the hacksaw. that will fix everything.


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## aabbas (Oct 16, 2004)

My personal experience: over the course of five cross bikes (Kelly, Empella, Felt, Santa Cruz, Salsa), three different sets of cantis (XT, Cane Creek SCX-5, Tektro CR720), and four different sets of linear pulls (XT, Tektro mini, Avid SD7, XTR), the canti's _all_ shuddered to some degree and the linear pulls _never_ did. Things I've found to help reduce shudder are steel forks, extreme toe-in, shorter spacing between pad and arm, and straddle setup with weak leverage. Admittedly I've never tried expensive canti's or professional adjustment.


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## gewilli (Dec 18, 2006)

the mayor said:


> Zoo...just break out the hacksaw. that will fix everything.


that's what colinR does when he wants a new fork...


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## celerystalksme (Nov 14, 2007)

toe-in? is that the ticket?

i just got a blue cx6.5 that came with shimano canti's and xero lite wheels and their housebrand carbon fork. front brake shudder. i hate it. i must fix it!!!!!!!!!!


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