# Will retro survive??



## cycleT (Sep 15, 2011)

What do you think? Will quality steel retro used and NOS road bikes, frames, and parts(campy) still be in demand and of interest in the future? Will prices increase in 10-20 years? Many people that are interested in buying, owning and riding these bikes and frames
grew up with them. What happens as we/they get older. Will younger riders be as interested? they did not grow up with them....steel frames as friction shifters went out about 20 years ago? Will beautiful steel frames decrease in $ value?


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## moschika (Feb 1, 2004)

i think it will survive. currently there seems to be a renaissance in classic steel building as evident with NAHBS and the several other handbuilt bike shows around the country. as for older parts, i'm sure people will still use those too. if you've gone to one of these, they aren't all full of baby boomers but with a lot of young people who don't like all the cookie-cutter bikes. also look at all the custom builders with months/years long waits for a bike.


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## LejeuneCdM (Sep 5, 2008)

It will survive. There are many younger fans of fine vintage steel that will pass their passion on to yet another generation.


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## jr59 (Mar 30, 2011)

I don't think so. At least not like it is now.

Older people want their youth, the bikes they couldn't afford when they were young.

I don't see many young riders fawning over my Bianchi, or Merckx! 
Instead they look at them as a curiosity, like wow. 
Not like awww, man, I wish I had the money, or something like that.

I think in 20 years there will be a few that become collectable, but not many.
As the very good stuff will always be the good stuff.


I would bet there aren't many younger posters on the retro forum.
In the other forums, sure, but here, not many. A few for sure, but most kids want CF.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

a young guy in his early 20s riding a brand-new badass Wilier commented on my Paramount last nite...

he said he was seriously looking for a vintage Italian steel frame so he could have a bike with a connection to cycling's history.

so, at least some of the younger riders are appreciative of retro.


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## apapage (Sep 12, 2012)

As with auto collecting, I think the popularity of any particular bike will progress through different stages. For some time, many of the retro bikes have been considered junk until nostalgia kicks in to create a market for almost all retro rides (today). Supply and demand takes over thereafter, and finally speculation. That is, I suspect that the demand created by nostalgia will lessen as people get older. Once this happens, most of the demand will be from collectors wanting the rare/high end bikes. Case in point, I have kabuki circa 1986 that was given to me. It was purchased by a friend that always wanted one growing up at a premium. Fast forward to today, there really isn't any demand for it as far as I can tell. It is not a high end or rare bike, so no one is collecting. I probably should have gotten rid of it a decade ago. High end Italian bikes of that era, however, are still sought after.


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## Flbikejunkie (Mar 18, 2012)

My 21 year old son has ridden both of my steel bikes, Schwinn and Bianchi, and marveled at how smooth and comfortable both were. He now understands why they have a regular rotation in my group of bikes. He is interested in having a steel bike to complement his race bike at some point. Steel's magical ride will always bring new riders to the fold. We all get older and stiffer and that's when people start looking at alternative materials from carbon and aluminum. He did not like DT shifters or pedals with cages which are too old school for him.


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

There will be a segment that will enjoy these older bikes. The scarcity of vintage parts is one that drives prices, so yes, there will be demands for certain ones. Those who want period correct will have the $ issues to contend with when building a bike up. Their build quality also keeps them around and like barn cars, some very old bikes are hanging in garages collecting dust for that one buyer to find them. 

I'll get comments on the Atala and I know people will look at the Vitus. What thoughts roll through their head, IDK otherwise.


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## laffeaux (Dec 12, 2001)

Classic cars and well-made antique furniture seem to hold their value. I'd expect nicer classic bicycles to do the same.


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## jr59 (Mar 30, 2011)

As I said;

The very good stuff will always be the very good stuff!
And collectors will always want the finest!

That's the top 2%. What happens to the rest?


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

Steel frames, lugged or brazed will survive. DT shifters won't. Sure, there will be the odd duck now and again that will want a bike with DT shifters for that true "retro-classic" look but as a whole, it will be pretty much dead. I grew up DT shifters and you couldn't pay me to ride them now. I love the feel of steel and even more so, the look of lugged steel. But DT shifters scuk IMHO. I know there are a lot out there that love them for the nostalgia but not this bubba. Yep, I said it: DT shifters suck. My flame suit is on.


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## crossracer (Jun 21, 2004)

I think certain ideas of beauty carry over thru the years. A beautiful italian frame, with chromed lugwork, will allways be a thing of beauty. 

My worry is all these damn hipsters turning great steel frames into fixies. Uggh, i hate them. 

ANd in twenty years there wont be any classic carbon riders out there, cause the bikes will have all faded to dust cause of sunlight. LOL LOL LOL

But a well made steel frame, taken care of, can still be running 10,20,30, or even 40 years after its been built. My mid 80's frame is approaching thirty years, and its still a great ride. 

Bill


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## SteveOz1 (Sep 5, 2012)

Ride-Fly said:


> Steel frames, lugged or brazed will survive. DT shifters won't. Sure, there will be the odd duck now and again that will want a bike with DT shifters for that true "retro-classic" look but as a whole, it will be pretty much dead. I grew up DT shifters and you couldn't pay me to ride them now. I love the feel of steel and even more so, the look of lugged steel. But DT shifters scuk IMHO. I know there are a lot out there that love them for the nostalgia but not this bubba. Yep, I said it: DT shifters suck. My flame suit is on.


I'd better get my flame suit on too - just built up a vintage Look with Campy Daytona 10 speed - it the frame ever gets relegated to "wall hanger" maybe I will put on DT,s but just for the esthetics


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

SteveOz1 said:


> I'd better get my flame suit on too - just built up a vintage Look with Campy Daytona 10 speed - it the frame ever gets relegated to "wall hanger" maybe I will put on DT,s but just for the esthetics


:thumbsup:

post pics!! I'm always on the lookout for Daytona and Chorus 10 alloy. That's the retro I like.


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## TREKIN (Aug 17, 2012)

Steel will survive. I'm 26 years old and bought my retro because it was a 1986. I wanted a bike that was as old as me to have forever. Once I get a new road bike the 86 will get all the components off my 2008. Steel + bontrager=


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## apapage (Sep 12, 2012)

DT rocks. Light weight, precise shifting with SIS, and simple. Combine with an 11-30 5 or 6 speed cassette and you only have to shift maybe once a week anyway.


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## Quattro_Assi_07 (Jan 13, 2006)

apapage said:


> DT rocks. Light weight, precise shifting with SIS, and simple. Combine with an 11-30 5 or 6 speed cassette and you only have to shift maybe once a week anyway.


Brifters suck. I don't know of any other aspect of modern day cycling that total destroyed the elegance of a beautiful light-weight steel frame with aluminum components. Well, maybe the demise of the quill stem but yeah, brifters just plain suck. :thumbsup:


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## LandShark'n (Jan 10, 2011)

I would be surprised if steel doesn't survive. If you look at modern carbon bikes, the all seem to look the same with colour schemes, bold (garish) graphics emblazoned on every surface and similar shapes. To me, the modern bicycle frame is more like a piece of disposable sporting equipment, whereas the vintage (an modern-crafted) steel is a true work of art.


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## Quattro_Assi_07 (Jan 13, 2006)

LandShark'n said:


> I would be surprised if steel doesn't survive. If you look at modern carbon bikes, the all seem to look the same with colour schemes, bold (garish) graphics emblazoned on every surface and similar shapes. To me, the modern bicycle frame is more like a piece of disposable sporting equipment, whereas the vintage (an modern-crafted) steel is a true work of art.


I think, from now on it will always be a niche market but steel frames ain't going nowhere, especially with the handbuilt segment. But they will for the most part, succumb to modern ay componentry, some of which I personally find hard to digest. Here is a new one from Fondriest

SF2 - Cicli FONDRIEST - Fondriest bike




















Ritchey steel


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## apapage (Sep 12, 2012)

Great looking bikes and brifiters would definitely be out of place. Personally, I prefer SIS DT shifters with a 7-8 speed cassette (that's what I am used to). I have an older bike with friction DT, but for me the lack of precision takes away from spirited riding. Downside is that I don't shift as frequently as I should.


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## Quattro_Assi_07 (Jan 13, 2006)

apapage said:


> Great looking bikes and brifiters would definitely be out of place. Personally, I prefer SIS DT shifters with a 7-8 speed cassette (that's what I am used to). I have an older bike with friction DT, but for me the lack of precision takes away from spirited riding. Downside is that I don't shift as frequently as I should.



I've got everything from early Dura Ace AX an EX, to 7400, 7700, 7800, Campy C-Record 8 speed Syncro,Superbe Pro 7 and 8 speed, downtube shifters all. It has hampered my shifting ability one bit. I also have 9 speed Ultegra as well as Dura Ace brifters. I actually prefer my DT bikes over the brifter. In fact, I'll probably end of switching those out when I get around to it this next year. I just can't stand the way they look on classic frames. Now my BMC Team Machine has SRAM Red and it will stay. It just wouldn't look right any other way. :thumbsup:


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## jr59 (Mar 30, 2011)

All you down tube guys are retro-grouchs!

GET OFF MY LAWN!


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## cycleT (Sep 15, 2011)

Quattro_Assi_07...that zullo is one sweet looking bike!


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## DocRogers (Feb 16, 2006)

On the brake/shifter vs. downtube shifter debate, remember bar end shifters? Like the ones on my old Pinarello 'cross bike. Sure, they ain't pretty, but they work great.


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## Quattro_Assi_07 (Jan 13, 2006)

DocRogers said:


> On the brake/shifter vs. downtube shifter debate, remember bar end shifters? Like the ones on my old Pinarello 'cross bike. Sure, they ain't pretty, but they work great.



Yes, I do. Even though I've never used them myself, I can even see myself using a set for a touring bike. I am sure they are very handy when you have a tourer loaded down.


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## Quattro_Assi_07 (Jan 13, 2006)

cycleT said:


> Quattro_Assi_07...that zullo is one sweet looking bike!


Thanks cycleT. I hope that when I finally get rid of it, that it goes to the good home of some young retro grouch who will appreciate it but I figure I still have at least 20-30 years to enjoy it before then. :thumbsup:


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

DocRogers said:


> On the brake/shifter vs. downtube shifter debate, remember bar end shifters? Like the ones on my old Pinarello 'cross bike. Sure, they ain't pretty, but they work great.


I've always preferred barcons. The problem now is finding some classy brake levers to go with them. Older Campy levers and hoods are crazy expensive.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Well lets twist this around a bit, are older cars still the rage? Of course they are, even archaic model T's and A's which personally I would never own but I do have several classic cars; but those survived and so will older bicycles, and the demand will go up as will the prices, unless the economy tanks then that's a different story which will effect anything of older value anyways.


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## Quattro_Assi_07 (Jan 13, 2006)

froze said:


> Well lets twist this around a bit, are older cars still the rage? Of course they are, even archaic model T's and A's which personally I would never own but I do have several classic cars; but those survived and so will older bicycles, and the demand will go up as will the prices, unless the economy tanks then that's a different story which will effect anything of older value anyways.



I think you are onto something. Just like the bikes from the 40s and 50s are still collectible. I personally wouldn't want a fat tired bike but there are some collectors who still desire them today and probably want nothing to do with my 1980-1990s era bikes. I suspect the same thing will continue even after I am gone and my bikes have moved on to new owners.

My question is, what carbon bikes (we are talking non-custom frames) of today will stand the test of time and become this generation's collectible bikes?


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Quattro_Assi_07 said:


> I think you are onto something. Just like the bikes from the 40s and 50s are still collectible. I personally wouldn't want a fat tired bike but there are some collectors who still desire them today and probably want nothing to do with my 1980-1990s era bikes. I suspect the same thing will continue even after I am gone and my bikes have moved on to new owners.
> 
> My question is, what carbon bikes (we are talking non-custom frames) of today will stand the test of time and become this generation's collectible bikes?


 I think there will be certain carbon frames that will survive and be worth a lot of money because those certain ones will stand for monumental historical reasons associated with that particular make and model, but I don't think the everyday ones we see on the road will mount to much of anything just a pile of fiber junk; much like most of today's modern cars have no significant monumental historical reason to be worth anything in coming years, nor do I think they will survive the test of time due to rapid decay of plastic and silicone. There may be a good chance that of all the modern materials that certain titanium bikes could stand out of the crowd as will custom built steel jobs of today's world, one of the reasons I got the Mercian Vincitore Special in 07.

Of course all that I said I could have said 45 years ago looking at steel cars! But there were cars I bought back then that I knew back then I should have kept! But looking at today's cars I see none of that effect. Same with modern plastic bikes, there is no artistic feature on most new bikes and the material is not designed to last unless rarely ridden. Same with most modern cars, not a whole lot of artistry and made of inferior materials. Even the steel used in today's cars are a lot thinner then it use to be which will result in faster rust through, more complete damage in an accident rendering it impossible to restore. I think some cars like the Veyron and the such will be quite collectible, but the cost of those just to get into one is out reach of 98% of the population.

I have friend who restores those 40's and 50's bikes, he sells them for over $2,500 with most he gets and sells averaging $5,000!! I would never buy one, the big fat tires, the monster frames, heavy steel chrome wheels, and they ride weird their handling is sluggish, uncomfortable riding position, and stop poorly, their not my cup of tea, just like any car prior to mid 50's, though some day I want to get a Ford truck with a hopped up flathead V8. He sold one of those 40's era bikes last year at an auction for $12,500, he paid $1,500 for it and restored it.


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## Cale Maybin (Sep 17, 2012)

This is my first post on here,Im only 25 and would much rather have a vintage bike then a new one. Just my luck after looking all summer for one in my size and price range,I bought a 2 month old alum. bike off craigslist,and looked last night and there were 3 vintage frames for sale.The neo/retro thread is my favorite.


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## cycleT (Sep 15, 2011)

> [This is my first post on here,Im only 25 and would much rather have a vintage bike then a new one. Just my luck after looking all summer for one in my size and price range,I bought a 2 month old alum. bike off craigslist,and looked last night and there were 3 vintage frames for sale.The neo/retro thread is my favorite./QUOTE]
> 
> Welcome Cale, You have many years to find bikes that you want and to ride. You may envy some of
> us older guys bikes now, -- but we envy your youth and all that cycling time ahead of you!


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## BlueMasi1 (Oct 9, 2002)

Couldn't agree more!


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

There will always be a healthy market for high end vintage bikes, especially well preserved examples hand built by iconic framebuilders whose goal is perfection.


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## JaeP (Mar 12, 2002)

Quattro_Assi_07 said:


> Brifters suck. I don't know of any other aspect of modern day cycling that total destroyed the elegance of a beautiful light-weight steel frame with aluminum components. Well, maybe the demise of the quill stem but yeah, brifters just plain suck. :thumbsup:


I used to feel this way until I started racing a few years ago. Even though I have an inexpensive alu bike with brifters for racing, I still take out my down tube shifting, toe clip wearing, tubular riding steel bike on some races.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I agree, I've heard a lot of complaints about briftors reliability issues, cost to replace, etc, it's all over the forums on the internet and among friends that I know. Having said that, I have a 07 Mercian that has Athena group set on it with briftors, even though I haven't had any issues the bike only has about 2,000 miles on it, and if I decide to tour with the bike or the briftors fail I will change them to bar end shiftors, I'm not going to spend $300 or so for new briftors or take a chance of them failing on a long ride..


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

*retrograde* adj. (comparative more retrograde, superlative most retrograde)

1. Directed backwards, retreating; reverting especially inferior state, declining; inverse, reverse; movement opposite to normal or intended motion, often circular motion.

2. Counterproductive to a desired outcome.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

Retro style is classic like Doric, Ionic, and Corinthian columns. It's simply an outdated style or fashion that has become fashionable again.

There's no rule that says retro has to be inferior by not taking advantage of new technology to realize improvements over the original.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

The situation with old bikes, especially 80's era, is that some of the technology when it comes to component durability is actually far better then the new stuff. Not saying that all vintage bikes are better, for example steel tubing has improved a bit once they got past Reynolds 531 and the like, but 531 is very reliable just heavier then people are willing to accept; wheels have seen a huge improvement with aero designs and bladed spokes etc. But when it comes to derailleurs, briftors, gears, cranks, and chains the reliability is way down today then what they use to be. I have a bike with over 160,000 miles on the components, all my 80's era chains averaged 13,000 miles and all my gears averaged at least 3 times that long! you can't even come close to that today with the skinny thin "jewelry" chains and gears they use today, and the briftor complication has led to shorter life expectancy. And then there's the question as to whether or not CF frames will last the distance and test of time, we all know AL frames won't.

But even if you don't agree with me about the above, the vintage stuff is a big hook now because like anything vintage it has a flare of artistry of a bygone era that is now missing, and a sense of romance because an actual human being built the thing, and they were built by countries friendly towards the US if not the US ourselves. Of course there are modern lugged steel bikes one can get the same feeling for but at a cost that most are not willing to spend, so a used bike is a way to go, and as long as that is there and the economy holds the prices will continue to uptick, and if the economy trends upward then vintage bikes bought today will be worth more tomorrow whereas the new bike bought today will be worth less tomorrow.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

I guess I don't think "retro" is necessarily vintage; it can be new with retro styling.

Case in point is this SOMA Stanyan frameset with Tange Prestige tubing and polished stainless head lugs for $730. I don't have a crystal ball, but I'm guessing it won't depreciate very much if it's taken care of.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Scooper said:


> I guess I don't think "retro" is necessarily vintage; it can be new with retro styling.
> 
> Case in point is this SOMA Stanyan frameset with Tange Prestige tubing and polished stainless head lugs for $730. I don't have a crystal ball, but I'm guessing it won't depreciate very much if it's taken care of.


That's a nice looking bike and no where near the amount of money other lug steel bikes can cost. I don't think it will depreciate anywhere near as much as AL or CF bikes will especially if tastefully adorned with the right components. Don't necessary read that as meaning expensive components, Rivendell does not use the most expensive components he can find, but more like the look of components of yesterday even if they were made today with an avoidance of black CF parts, in other words silver colored components. Take a look at the Rivendell web site if you want to get an idea, but I think you know what I'm talking about.


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