# Training for a race versus training for a century.



## DalyCityDad (Oct 11, 2009)

I'm a beginning cyclist. I just did my first century a few weeks ago and I plan on doing a few more this year. I did my century with Team In Training so I had coaches who helped me get ready and I have a basic understanding of how to prepare for a long distance ride.

At some point I would like to at least try a race. It's not my main goal and I don't even know if I'll like it or be any good at it but I want to at least have the experience. My question is what is the difference between training for a non-competitive century and a race (which would be considerably faster and shorter) The TNT training was great but was focused on finishing the ride not riding fast. Is there a way to train for both at the same time?

Also, I should say that I'm a pretty busy guy and need to maximize my efforts so I can't just ride 300 miles a week or whatever. 

-Thanks.


----------



## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

DalyCityDad said:


> Is there a way to train for both at the same time.


Sure you can. Training for intensity and training for endurance will differ in the details but you can combine both. It is true that training exclusively for one will blunt the other to some degree but you are talking about doing some races for fun/experience, and recreational century riding so one isn't expecting a "pro" level of performance in either. In fact, I'd say that to fully develop your potential you need to add some level of competition to your training regime. This doesn't have to be racing - it could be simply measuring and keeping track of your own performance on a time-trial loop or on a favourite hill climb.

Some ideas, and Bay area specific too:

Read a book on racing or on training.
Attend a local race like this or this so that you know what to expect.
Go on a serious group ride, like the Noon Ride or the Spectrum Ride and see what it takes to hang with the pack.
Add intervals and sprints to your regular rides.
Choose a hill (eg. St Bruno mountain) and ride it weekly while tracking your time improvement.
Do a Low-key Hill Climb or Beat the Clock event.
Join a local race-oriented club like Alto Velo or Pen Velo.

And if you have what it takes to race competitively (even at say Cat 5), then doing a recreational century is no big deal IMHO, especially if you already have one in the bag and know what to expect.


----------



## deadleg (Jan 26, 2005)

The simple answer is long slow distance for century training.
Race training would focus more on building power for sprints and interval training.
It is all good.


----------



## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Frankly I'd rather do a 50-mile cat 3 road race, than a full century as a rally / charity ride. Sure the race would be faster / harder but at least it'd be over after 2 hours or so... 

Anyway, speed work / intervals / time trials will help you for both purposes. Your century time will be shorter because you can cruise at a higher speed.

Also, fast group rides for the same reasons, to get you comfortable with fast pacelines will help both racing and century riding.


----------



## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Is there a way to train for both at the same time?

Only if you have the time. Otherwise you will problems with both.

I don't, so I'm only good for two hours at race pace, before my legs start to go away.


----------



## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

Good ideas, but I'll suggest Menlo Park over Cat's Hill if you want to try a close-to-home (and I'm assuming that your RBR name is still accurate) first race in the next couple of weeks. (I like Cat's Hill, but wouldn't suggest it as a first race.) Wente Vineyards road race and crit are in a few weeks, too, and just out in Livermore.


----------



## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Undecided said:


> Good ideas, but I'll suggest Menlo Park over Cat's Hill if you want to try a close-to-home (and I'm assuming that your RBR name is still accurate) first race in the next couple of weeks. (I like Cat's Hill, but wouldn't suggest it as a first race.) Wente Vineyards road race and crit are in a few weeks, too, and just out in Livermore.


Actually I was merely suggesting attendance not participation! Cat's Hill is a great spectacle but as you say not a good course for a first race.


----------



## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

ukbloke said:


> Actually I was merely suggesting attendance not participation! Cat's Hill is a great spectacle but as you say not a good course for a first race.


Hah! Didn't even occur to me---good idea.


----------



## DalyCityDad (Oct 11, 2009)

ukbloke said:


> Sure you can. Training for intensity and training for endurance will differ in the details but you can combine both. It is true that training exclusively for one will blunt the other to some degree but you are talking about doing some races for fun/experience, and recreational century riding so one isn't expecting a "pro" level of performance in either. In fact, I'd say that to fully develop your potential you need to add some level of competition to your training regime. This doesn't have to be racing - it could be simply measuring and keeping track of your own performance on a time-trial loop or on a favourite hill climb.
> 
> Some ideas, and Bay area specific too:
> 
> ...



Thanks for the great ideas. I actually time myself on San Bruno mountain sometimes already.


----------



## ptfmb71 (May 16, 2007)

i find that a good mtb course with steep short/medium climbs is good training. I time myself every time so even if I want to relax I try to beat my previous time so it keeps my intensity up.


----------



## Crack Monkey (Apr 19, 2007)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Is there a way to train for both at the same time?
> 
> Only if you have the time. Otherwise you will problems with both.
> 
> I don't, so I'm only good for two hours at race pace, before my legs start to go away.


While this is true for somebody looking for maximum performance in one or the other discipline, for somebody who is just getting into the sport, training for both is totally possible.

The base miles needed to complete centuries in a reasonable time will serve well as base fitness for road races or crits.

That said, I'm totally amazed at the pace of local Cat5 races. I've raced mtn bikes on and off for years (mostly off) and finally took the plunge into road racing this season. Average speeds are 23mph or more. So, if the OP hasn't done ANY speed work, he needs to seriously evaluate his fitness level and plan accordingly. I don't say this to discourage - but entering a 40 mile race, only to be shot of the back at the first climb and pulled after 20 miles wouldn't be much fun.

Find a good, fast local club ride to join. Most areas have several during the week and on the weekend. Ride with racers. Riding on your own, or with a social group, won't be enough - the intensity just isn't there.


----------



## tsutaoka (Mar 4, 2005)

DalyCityDad said:


> I'm a beginning cyclist. I just did my first century a few weeks ago and I plan on doing a few more this year. I did my century with Team In Training so I had coaches who helped me get ready and I have a basic understanding of how to prepare for a long distance ride.
> 
> At some point I would like to at least try a race. It's not my main goal and I don't even know if I'll like it or be any good at it but I want to at least have the experience. My question is what is the difference between training for a non-competitive century and a race (which would be considerably faster and shorter) The TNT training was great but was focused on finishing the ride not riding fast. Is there a way to train for both at the same time?
> 
> ...


DCD, i personally made the transition from event rider into racing. my training regime changed significantly ;-)

i'd first ask why you'd like to race? 1) it sounds fun; 2) like to be competitive; 3) next perceieved step in the sport, 4) something else?

i'd then ask, what type of races appeal to you? 1) crit; 2) circuit race; 3) road race; 4) stage race

i'd then ask a few question about your existing fitness level (aka threshold stats)

lastly, what are you expected hours/week to train? can you train during the week? what is fun for you?

i'm certainly no expert and/or coach; but have made the tranistion under the guidance of 2 coaches and think racing is a blast!!!


----------



## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

DalyCityDad said:


> ...what is the difference between training for a non-competitive century and a race... Is there a way to train for both at the same time?


In a race splits are created by sudden accelerations more than by the higher speed overall. Your ability to jump hard, go into the red, then recover at speed will likely be key.

As someone mentioned above, interval training will develop your speed for both racing and century rides. And research has shown intervals help build endurance as well (while long steady rides do little to build speed). I'd say the key to training for a race would be to incorporate intervals into your rides (maybe 3 to 5 minutes hard, with 2-3 easy between, 4 to 8 times), and eventually toss in some sprints (10 to 20 seconds as hard as you can, spin until fully recovered, repeat maybe 6 to 10 times). Make sure you rest and recover well between rides.

That said, even the fittest rider may have trouble when they first race. Road racing techniques are a lot to master, and ignoring them usually means being dropped. I'd recommend a book like Arnie Baker's "Smart Cycling" for a general orientation (for racers and non-racers alike).

Have fun with it, and let us know...


----------



## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Races put a premium on power at vO2max and/or anaerobic power, and then the so-called "recovery" is at 24-25 mph.  
I've been in 3 cat5 crits & circuit races so far ... avg speeds 24-25, surges to low 30s. It's exhausting. 

As others have said, do intervals or very fast group rides with racers. I'd suggest don't skimp on the group rides, it will teach you to ride safely in tight packs. 

Realize that in a crit or circuit race, you're likely going to find yourself in corners at 20-25 mph, riders on your left and right 1-2 ft away, and riders 1-2 ft in front & behind you. For everyone's safety, developing good bike handling skills is a *must*.


----------



## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

Yeah, plan on being shocked by how hard everyone goes when you do start your first ever race. Riders who say..."Geeze, I 'beat' everyone at that last Century ride"...They're the ones who are especially vunerable to a 'surprise' when they try a real race.

Like other's have said, Intervals are needed to prepare you to go 'all-out' then recover quickly. This is what happens in a race...and it happens more to beginner racers than to experienced ones who can anticipate where and when accelerations will happen and not have to work so hard to close gaps and catch up all the time. 15 to 20mph is a likely pace for a recreational century...Lots of races will start with 4-5 minute bursts at ~28-30mph..or gut busting efforts up a hill...If you do not respond, you will be dropped...and you will be very unlikely to ever catch back, once dropped...Interval training will give you a shot at 'holding' the pack..


----------



## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Also, many communities have a traditional, Tuesday early evening "crit practice" ... often in an after-hours business or industrial park, if it's an urban/suburban area. Find one and try it. Good introduction to racing.

Most people, unless they're athletically gifted, will get dropped after a few laps of crit practice (some after 1 lap) ... no problem, take a recovery lap ... rejoin the peloton (safely!) when it comes around again ... it's a good interval workout.


----------



## DalyCityDad (Oct 11, 2009)

I definately don't think I'm "ready" for racing yet (as far as speed and fitness). Several people have mentioned intervals and sprints so I'll definately add those into my training. I also definately need to start doing more group rides. Up until now I've almost exclusively ridden with my Team In Training friends most of whom had never owned a road bike before (like me) so, while I was one of the faster ones on the Team, I don't have any idea how I match up with more experienced cyclists. My guess is I'm pretty slow compared to the average racer. I figure a few group rides will give me a pretty good indication.

At any rate, it doesn't seem like I will need to alter my training THAT much. I just need to add the element of speed (I'm sure I'm oversimplifying it). As Creakyknees said, my century time will be lower because I will be able to cruise at a higher speed. 

I'm thinking about doing the echelon gran fondo (with a timing chip) at the end of may so I'll be able to see what my time is compared to the racers who will also be doing it.


----------



## tommyrhodes (Aug 19, 2009)

Just go try a race.


----------



## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

tommyrhodes said:


> Just go try a race.


+1.
Or a tuesday evening crit practice.

Those "gran fondo" rides won't give you any idea, because even the entered racers (if you knew who they were) won't be riding it like a race. The demands a 50-100 mile cyclo-sportiv are different than a 30-40 minute cat5 race.


----------



## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*possible*

It's possible to do both, but I'd decide which one is the priority. I've done road racing while doing double centuries, even double centuries fixed gear, but the racing suffers. 

The key difference is that in road racing, you must be able to reach and hold extraordinarily high efforts for 5-10 minutes at a time here and there, and then in between you might be barely working. For centuries and beyond, unless there are hills so steep they require very high efforts just to get up them with the gearing and power/weight you have, you pretty much avoid ever exceeding threshold. 

I have had my best fitness when I was doing 10 hour doubles and road races. I could ride hilly double centuries with the leaders, almost like a road race, but instead of trying to drop each other, we road them more like a team time trial. We would not *try* to drop someone, but if you could not hang, you were "let go." This resulted in turning in some very good times. I don't think this level of fitness is possible, at least for me, without the training that goes with race preparation and racing itself. But, this was extremely time consuming (before kids).

So, basically go out and train like a racer, but with some longer endurance rides. When you do your longer endurance rides on the weekends, push hard up the hills, and maybe a hard paceline here and there. Ride with a racing group on their 40-60 mile training rides, but tack on some miles at the end. Be sure to get rest when you need it, though, because this is a recipe for over training and constant fatigue.


----------



## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

DalyCityDad said:


> I I'm thinking about doing the echelon gran fondo (with a timing chip) at the end of may so I'll be able to see what my time is compared to the racers who will also be doing it.


 A gran fondo is not a race. It's more like an informal time trial without defined real winners. There may be a few riders in a fondue who are going for the overall best time of the day, but most participants are there for training or socializing and will have plenty of reasons why each "could have gone faster, but ____"

A race, everyone who's racing is trying, as hard as they can, to drop YOU. You'll need to look at the racers around you and decide when to HIT them with an attack...or watch them for their attacks against you, and then respond. You try to parse out your strength so that you end up (just?) in front of everyone else at the end....If everyone is racing at 19mph...same-o as 40mph....the first one across wins, whatever the average or relative speeds. It's more about having a "kick" and using that kick to put everyone else back. It's trying to trick everyone else into using up their kick first, then 'smooshing them'.


----------

