# Trainer speed?



## goat 834 (Jun 28, 2009)

Are you slower on the trainer than on the road? I have a rear wheel speed sensor so I can track info on the trainer. My average speed is way slower than on the road in the same gears. So do I need to HTHU or is that normal?


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## rudedog55 (Aug 10, 2009)

I would say it is normal, i have the same deal with my trainer. Better workout than the road, you can really isolate what you want to do better with less distractions, but certainly slower MPH wise than outside riding for the same effort. MPH really means nothing inside anyway, But if you don't use power to train, you can use the inside MPH as a gauge to your effort on the trainer. When you finally get outside, you will be faster


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

I go exactly 0MPH on my trainer, no matter what gear I'm in and how hard/fast I pedal.

It just doesn't matter. What you should be focusing on is heart rate or power, and not worrying about stuff like max/average speed.

With my LeMond trainer, I guess my average speed is about where it is on the road for a given effort. I don't know for sure, since my speed sensor doesn't work without a rear wheel and my LeMond computer hasn't shown up yet. On the rollers, I'm actually wicked fast. On the various fluid trainers I owned over the years, not so much. For that matter, I'm faster on my road bike than I am on my 29er. Apples and oranges.

None of it really matters. What matters is putting in a solid, structured effort and not just mindlessly spinning the hours away. Have a good plan, execute it, and enter the next riding season stronger than if you hadn't had one.


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## Daren (Jul 25, 2008)

I have a adjustable resistance trainer and my MPH usually averages higher, but as AL Mike states, speed is irrelevant on a trainer. Train in the zone(s) for that workout and call it a good day.


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## Hula Hoop (Feb 4, 2009)

The only useful measure of speed on a trainer is to set your original baselines
and track your progress at different gear\cadences\heartrates relative to original
measurements. I noticed that when I whent to a dedicated trainer tire, I picked
up some MPHs as well as smoothing out my pedal stroke considerably.


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## bmxhacksaw (Mar 26, 2008)

I have Kurt Kinetic and it is way slower than out on the road. But I also have the Kurt Power Computer so I really don't pay attention to speed.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

What Alaska Mike said. "Speed" is a meaningless number on a stationary trainer. You can't make the resistance correlate with resistance on the road (which varies anyway), so it's meaningless as an absolute number, or as a comparison with road speed. Same with "distance" )"miles") on a trainer. Use some measure of effort (perceived effort, heart rate) and time.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Further more, tire pressure and different wheels can influence "speed". Even on the roads, wind and intersections can heavily influence speed. LOL, this is where power meters start showing their merit...ok, I've sipped the Kool-Aid.  

With consistent tire pressure, average speed can be a little more useful on rollers IMO.


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

Yes I'm slower on the trainer. And now that I've finally gotten out on the road I can say for sure that wasn't due to fitness decline. Road speed was more of less where I left off in December.....despite never coming close to that speed on the trainer. So Im sure I'm slower on the trainer as opposed to just being a slug during the winter.

The one exception is top end speed. That's faster on the trainer presumably because aerodynamics don't kick in like on the road.


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## dot (Mar 4, 2004)

I'm dying at 36x13 or it even might be 36x14 or 36x15. Too many variables, that's what I like in rollers: consistency of speed/exertion ratio. Pity, I've run out of gears on rollers.


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## kmunny19 (Aug 13, 2008)

Hank Stamper said:


> Yes I'm slower on the trainer. And now that I've finally gotten out on the road I can say for sure that wasn't due to fitness decline. Road speed was more of less where I left off in December.....despite never coming close to that speed on the trainer. So Im sure I'm slower on the trainer as opposed to just being a slug during the winter.


I found this to be the case for myself as well. Of course this is speaking in generality. Last year I got a double wireless comp measuring both from the rear wheel, and based on average HR over a 2 hour ride, I go fewer fake trainer miles for the same effort as I do on flat tempo rides outside. (and that's even with a fan blowing at my back while I'm on the trainer)

an effort that would usually get me roughly 38-40 miles outside, gets me 31-33 fake trainer miles. I'm counting my total miles this year and counting fake trainer miles even with real ones (theoretically shorting myself) as punishment for living someplace stupid.


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## goat 834 (Jun 28, 2009)

Sounds good guys. I am using CTS videos. They go by cadence if not using power meter. Just making sure I am working out properly is all. I know based on my HR I am getting good training time in. Just not going real far is all.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

goat 834 said:


> Sounds good guys. I am using CTS videos. They go by cadence if not using power meter. Just making sure I am working out properly is all. I know based on my HR I am getting good training time in. Just not going real far is all.


Cadence and gearing are going to tell you a lot. Heart rate has a few limitations, but it's still useful. PE is a relative scale, but also useful.


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## claphands (Apr 24, 2009)

I don't have a PM, but I've used these equations and charts this winter to give me a rough idea of what I am doing. 

http://thebikegeek.blogspot.com/2009/12/while-we-wait-for-better-and-better.html

http://www.fixedgearfever.com/modules.php?name=Roller_Tests&op=resistance.htm

In the end, I want to some how measure improvements in my training indoors - whether on the rollers or trainer. I find speed with a certain cadence for a specific amount of time i.e. 22mph w/ 100+ rpm for 10 mins to be helpful - with the above charts. I know there are many ways to "go" 22 mph on the rolllers/trainer by changing gear ratios and cadence but the power output is the same.

I do not try to relate any of the above to the road though.


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## CHT (Mar 1, 2001)

claphands said:


> I don't have a PM, but I've used these equations and charts this winter to give me a rough idea of what I am doing.
> 
> http://thebikegeek.blogspot.com/2009/12/while-we-wait-for-better-and-better.html
> 
> ...



Interesting, and while I don't doubt the data, it runs counter to the general consensus in this thread that you go slower on the trainer for the same effort. A 19-20 mph average ride is much easier outdoors than on the trainer, but the relative wattage for both is close on the Kurt Kinetic curves (I ride a Kurt Road Machine).


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## claphands (Apr 24, 2009)

CHT said:


> Interesting, and while I don't doubt the data, it runs counter to the general consensus in this thread that you go slower on the trainer for the same effort. A 19-20 mph average ride is much easier outdoors than on the trainer, but the relative wattage for both is close on the Kurt Kinetic curves (I ride a Kurt Road Machine).


This is where I have no data. I know the power curve chart tells me that 22 mph on my cyclops trainer is 307+ watts. Outside on a flat course with cadence 100+ I don't know what "speed" 307+ watts is other than PE. I maybe faster. I need (really want) a PM.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

*Means nothing.*

To emphasize what others have said:

*The speed that your wheel turns on a stationary trainer means nothing at all with respect to road speed*

On basic magnetic trainers, the resistance is pretty much fixed. It takes, say, 250 watts, to overcome the max resistance. Beyond that you are only dealing with the wind and friction resistance, a pretty small number. 

You could ride a cheap magnetic at a wheespeed that would produce 25mph on the road, or, 35mph, with maybe 10 watts' difference.

On a nicer progressive resistance trainer, like Saris' Fluid2 or Kinetics' Road Machine, it does take more watts to go faster, but, the numbers are only worthwhile in reference to that SPECIFIC trainer.

You also get some funny stuff where as the fluid heats up as you ride, the resistance changes...


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## goat 834 (Jun 28, 2009)

Argentius said:


> To emphasize what others have said:
> 
> *The speed that your wheel turns on a stationary trainer means nothing at all with respect to road speed*
> 
> ...


Definately. I train outside in the garage. For the first 5-8 minutes it feels like I am pedaling squares until it warms up.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Yeah, if that fluid is at "winter - outside" temperature it has a LOT of resistance!




goat 834 said:


> Definately. I train outside in the garage. For the first 5-8 minutes it feels like I am pedaling squares until it warms up.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

Argentius said:


> To emphasize what others have said:
> 
> *The speed that your wheel turns on a stationary trainer means nothing at all with respect to road speed*.............


Totally agree. Even with my fancy smancy Computrainer, I never even look at speed even though it is likely pretty close to on the road. It just doesn't matter. 

The wind blows so much in my world I can't even compare outdoor rides on the same route very well.

What matters is time at your desired power level or heartrate.

The same is true on the road too. I've never heard anyone seriously training say I need to ride 30 miles at 21 mph. I have heard them say I need to ride 2 hours at "tempo" or something similar.

Do I log my miles? Certainly! Doesn't everyone?


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Outside power*



claphands said:


> This is where I have no data. I know the power curve chart tells me that 22 mph on my cyclops trainer is 307+ watts. Outside on a flat course with cadence 100+ I don't know what "speed" 307+ watts is other than PE. I maybe faster. I need (really want) a PM.


For a flat road, no wind, 150 lb rider on a standard road bike, 25 mph is about 305 watts. If you can ride at 22 mph on the trainer but are unable to sustain that kind of speed outside, it's doubtful that your Cyclops numbers are right.


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## DapottSci (Mar 12, 2011)

*Trainer speed*

How many of you use a trainer to get more pedal time in? Im thinking of getting a trainer to get more hours a day in training on the bike. However, should I be concerned about wear and tear on my trail bike on a trainer? 

I would get a seperate wheel and tire for the trainer but am thinking about just getting a basic HT to put on the trainer for training. Or will the differant set up cause me problems? 
. 

_________________________________________________ 

 I like it!


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

DapottSci said:


> .... am thinking about just getting a basic HT to put on the trainer for training. Or will the differant set up cause me problems?
> .
> 
> _________________________________________________
> ...


Why can't you get the same setup? I've got a dedicated trainer bike so there is never an excuse for not wanting to fool with putting my bike on the trainer. It's just hop on and ride. Plus I'm not wearing good components out.
Maybe a bit of a luxury but I'm worth it.


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