# Team Sky, Brailsford: No Industrial Doping, No Amnesty



## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Team Sky riders are told to pledge allegiance to anti-doping stance | Sport | The Guardian




> Team Sky, winners of the Tour de France this year with Bradley Wiggins, have decided to reinforce their zero-tolerance doping policy on staff and riders in the light of the Lance Armstrong affair and because of the possibility of further revelations emerging. *"I don't want a team with anybody in it who has been involved in industrial doping," *said the Sky head Dave Brailsford, who compared the impact of the Armstrong revelations to "an atomic bomb in the sport".


Industrial Doping...What does that even mean?



> Brailsford must now make decisions regarding his road captain *Mike Rogers – who denies any wrongdoing but was named in the Usada report as being linked to Armstrong's trainer Michele Ferrari* – and lead directeur sportif Sean Yates who worked at Armstrong's Discovery Channel team but again denies any involvement with doping programmes. There is no suggestion in the Usada report that either has been involved in doping while *Yates insisted on Wednesday night: "I worked with Lance but never had any inclination this type of practice was going on," he said.*
> 
> The likelihood is that* some members of the team will leave*, but Brailsford said he had no idea how many.
> 
> What is certain is that *there will be no amnesty.* Brailsford said he felt that doping should have consequences. "I don't believe in a general pardon. I'm not sure [riders] can turn round and just say 'OK, I did that.' The challenge is trying to achieve a balance between supporting someone, not throwing them out of the door and never seeing them again, saying we will support you, this is an opportunity, but if you lie again, there will be no support at all.


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## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

It sounds like Brailsford is trying to gold plate a turd. Dodgy doctors, dodgy riders, dodgy staff, and a nobody like Froome who was struggling to find a contract for 2012 but suddenly became one of the best climbers and time trialists in the world. This team reeks like U.S. Postal.


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

I'm not certain they're quite USPS but the more I read the more I think Brailsford really didn't know what he was getting into. They didn't sign any rider without reviewing blood passports - shame they didn't do the same for staff. He can presumably add Julich to the list of people waiting outside his office. Yates has always creeped me out, maybe it's that earring. Minimum I'm expecting three gone


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## superjesus (Jul 26, 2010)




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## FR hokeypokey (Apr 12, 2010)

Since Yates is being thrown under the bus with suspicion. Do we now question Wiggins? Surely he must be. 

He has had a connection to Yates back to 2001 and the Linda McCartney Team. He also was a member of Team Cofidis and Telekom and High Road. All involved in doping scandals when or near the times he was on those teams.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Interesting article on Cyclismas:

Groundhog Day for Cycling? « Cyclismas | cycling satire and commentary


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Will be interesting to see how Wiggins will do next year in Le Tour.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

FR hokeypokey said:


> Since Yates is being thrown under the bus with suspicion. Do we now question Wiggins? Surely he must be.
> 
> He has had a connection to Yates back to 2001 and the Linda McCartney Team. He also was a member of Team Cofidis and Telekom and High Road. All involved in doping scandals when or near the times he was on those teams.





aclinjury said:


> Will be interesting to see how Wiggins will do next year in Le Tour.


He was not that good then ... just with a very good track background ... In the 2 years leading up to the 2012 TdF, I am sure you'd agree that he was coming up slowly ... and of course ... we all agree that the tour was designed for someone with good time-trialling ability with not many climb (steep) finishes as compared to previous tours.

Don't think he will be in contention for 2013 ...

_... the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. ... You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people._

:wink:


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## Ripton (Apr 21, 2011)

FR hokeypokey said:


> Since Yates is being thrown under the bus with suspicion. Do we now question Wiggins? Surely he must be.
> 
> He has had a connection to Yates back to 2001 and the Linda McCartney Team. He also was a member of Team Cofidis and Telekom and High Road. All involved in doping scandals when or near the times he was on those teams.


I'm not sure that Wiggins actually road for the Linda McCartney Racing Team, I've just read Team on the Run and from memory he was about to join/had just joined when it folded.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> _... the last thing I’ll say to the *c*nts* who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. ... You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people._
> 
> :wink:


there fixed it for ya

For the record, I think he definitely did dope, plus the fact that the course suited him too. If the course was like La Vuelta, there is no way he could have won even if he dumped a gallon of EPO into his blood after every stage. 2012 Tour fitted him so well. We can say he won the whole thing based on 1 time trial stage, the rest of the other stages he was just cruising with Team Sky.

and love it how Brailsford used the term "industrial doping".. as opposed to "recreational doping"?? lol nice mumbo jumbo.


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## superjesus (Jul 26, 2010)

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> _... the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. ... You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people._
> 
> :wink:


I love this quote from Wiggins. I think a great many of us _did_ dream big and believe in miracles. And time and time again, professional cycling has shown us that when you pull the curtain aside, those miracles aren't really miracles at all. Its just a bunch of skinny guys hooked up to blood bags and EPO. 

I do believe in cyclists. I just don't believe they're clean.

BTW Wiggo, the last guy who asked us to "dream big" just got popped for a systematic doping conspiracy spanning literally his entire professional career. If that's the stance you want to take, I'm not going to stop you. Just don't be so surprised when nobody believes you. Just sayin'.


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

The quote is Armstrong's, not Wiggins's.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

burgrat said:


> Interesting article on Cyclismas:
> 
> Groundhog Day for Cycling? « Cyclismas | cycling satire and commentary


The author makes a big deal of this: 










The "plaster" AKA bandaid on Wiggo's arm. 

It's after the individual TT on July 21st, stage 19 of the TDF. This is where Wiggo sealed the deal and won the tour.He won that TT, right? 

I don't know when the guy got tested throughout the tour. Does anyone have a timeline of tests? The author of the article says this: 

_According to sources within the Tour de France, there wasn’t any blood drawn for anti-doping purposes on that day.​_
Is it accurate?


If Wiggo were to stick something in his arm, why do it AFTER winning the last important GC stage of the race?


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## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

Local Hero said:


> If Wiggo were to stick something in his arm, why do it AFTER winning the last important GC stage of the race?


For saline, which is used to lower hematocrit in case of a drug test.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

nate said:


> For saline, which is used to lower hematocrit in case of a drug test.


He was probably dehydrated. Isn't that the stage where he forgot the water bottle?

(no excuses or anything, I'm just saying an illegal IV would make a lot of sense)


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

nate said:


> For saline, which is used to lower hematocrit in case of a drug test.


Bingo.

But then, we're all bone-idle wankers.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

I'm betting 100% that this pic of Wiggo's plaster is gonna be reposted on the net whenever there's a discussion on Wiggo's doping. Gonna be a classic pic! Expect a lot of "photochopped" version of this pic too, somebody is gonna photochopped in a syringe and blood bad already!

No problem though. Wiggo will simply call out "yer a bunch of c*nts!!" and walk away.

But I think for 2013, he'll probably get beaten hands down by Conti and he'll just slowly fade away before the officials on to him.. surely he must learn this from the LA saga? Not sure if British authorities would go after Wiggo like USADA went after LA though (LA was asking for it!).


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Does anyone have a timeline of Wiggo's tfd tests?


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## champamoore (Jul 30, 2012)

The Tedinator said:


> The quote is Armstrong's, not Wiggins's.


I think the mis-accreditation is a metaphorical and intentional one, Tedinator, referencing Wiggo's hostility to the media when questioned about doping during the Tour.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

champamoore said:


> I think the mis-accreditation is a metaphorical and intentional one, Tedinator, referencing Wiggo's hostility to the media when questioned about doping during the Tour.


I think he was just responding to superjesus who legit thought that was Wiggo's quote


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

If I was a pro cyclist, especially one who apparently "can understand why fans would be sceptical," I wouldn't let anyone stick anything on on my arm. Just feeds the forum fury.


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

I am a huge Sky skeptic; but even a bone idle wanker like myself can't believe Wiggo is stupid enough to be photographed with a bandaid covering and IV needle mark.

I will however say this: Sky's "zero tolerance" drug policy is stupid and unenforceable. They would be much better served with a more pragmatic approach like JV and Garmin. They aren't coming across in this as being "more righteous" than Garmin, and are in fact digging a bigger PR problem for themselves. Garmin is full of "ex-dopers" and are coming off very positively(no pun intended)in this. 

I mean, if you are Mick Rogers; what do you do? Seriously, only consulted Ferrari for training plans and coaching? You can't be serious. Yet if he comes clean, Brailsford will sack him. I guess he could always ask JV for a job, as should Levi.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

roddjbrown said:


> If I was a pro cyclist, especially one who apparently "can understand why fans would be sceptical," I wouldn't let anyone stick anything on on my arm. Just feeds the forum fury.


That's another reason why I think it was a legit blood test. Imagine some sophisticated doping program, but the drs and handlers let the doper waltz around and do interviews with tell-tail signs of their medical manipulation. LOL - what if they doped and bandaged him and 15 minutes later the doping control chaperon showed up for a sample! 

I would really like to see a timeline of Wiggo's testing for the 2012 tdf.


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

I just think Brailsford looked from the outside and thought "This is easy. Come in, don't hire anyone with a doping past and that'll prove we're clean." 3 years later and he's complaining its hard to find people without links to doping. Yep. Dave, it's pro cycling.


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

Local Hero said:


> That's another reason why I think it was a legit blood test. Imagine some sophisticated doping program, but the drs and handlers let the doper waltz around and do interviews with tell-tail signs of their medical manipulation. LOL - what if they doped and bandaged him and 15 minutes later the doping control chaperon showed up for a sample!
> 
> I would really like to see a timeline of Wiggo's testing for the 2012 tdf.


I could be wrong on WADA protocols, but I think post race tests are urine tests unless findings of said test warrant a further blood test. Or, Sky could have stuck him for their own internal testing. But the team, and Fran Millar said there was no Sky test. Or, in violation of UCI regulations, he received an IV. Or, he was doping. But no matter, what has the internet abuzz is Sky's and Fran Millar reaction to the story. Us against the trolls. Deja vu all over again!


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

roddjbrown said:


> I just think Brailsford looked from the outside and thought "This is easy. Come in, don't hire anyone with a doping past and that'll prove we're clean." 3 years later and he's complaining its hard to find people without links to doping. Yep. Dave, it's pro cycling.


It's a cute story. but given he has been around pro cyclists since 1996 I find it very hard to believe to be true he really thought there were plenty of squeaky clean riders and sportifs out there.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Local Hero said:


> He was probably dehydrated. Isn't that the stage where he forgot the water bottle?
> 
> (no excuses or anything, I'm just saying an illegal IV would make a lot of sense)


I find it hard to believe any rider on a pro team in the biggest race of them all would forget a water bottle. There were probably multiple checks on equipment including water bottle. Forgetting water is like forgetting to oil your chamois, not happening. And even if he and his team somehow did manage to forge the water bottle, well there was still the team car.


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

aclinjury said:


> I find it hard to believe any rider on a pro team in the biggest race of them all would forget a water bottle. There were probably multiple checks on equipment including water bottle. Forgetting water is like forgetting to oil your chamois, not happening. And even if he and his team somehow did manage to forge the water bottle, well there was still the team car.


Well Astana once forgot Contador


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Cars don't give handups during time trials.

Do you guys oil your chamois?


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## Ripton (Apr 21, 2011)

The Tedinator said:


> I could be wrong on WADA protocols, but I think post race tests are urine tests unless findings of said test warrant a further blood test. Or, Sky could have stuck him for their own internal testing. But the team, and Fran his wife said there was no Sky test. Or, in violation of UCI regulations, he received an IV. Or, he was doping. But no matter, what has the internet abuzz is Sky's and Fran Wiggins reaction to the story. Us against the trolls. Deja vu all over again!


Cath Wiggins, Fran Millar. I can understand how they'd get a bit a bit hacked off when the the trolls jump at anything and can't even get peoples names right.


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

Mea culpa! I just logged back in to change my Fran Wiggins to Fran Millar. Now I go back under the bridge!


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

Team Sky braced for departures | Mail Online

Anybody know who the "mystery rider" is? Current rider? Yates? Julich?


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

The Tedinator said:


> Team Sky braced for departures | Mail Online
> 
> Anybody know who the "mystery rider" is? Current rider? Yates? Julich?


Yates and Julich are the most obvious but I got a text earlier today saying Sutton....Don't know how real that is though


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

I think I remember a guy over at the Clinic saying he witnessed Sutton doping. Don't hold me to that though.


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

Doping expert wants Team Sky's drug stance put under the microscope | Sport | The Observer

Good read. No accusations, just common sense, IMO.


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