# Eddy Merckx says Ullrich too fat, not worked hard enough



## Coolhand

> Merckx critical of Ullrich
> Although Jan Ullrich maintains that he is right on target for his Tour de France plans, there are concerns that he is taking things a little too easy at this time of year. In today's Rund um Köln, Ullrich could only manage 64th place at 5'41 down from the winner, a far cry from his 52 km solo effort to win last year.
> 
> Ullrich joked afterwards that, "In 2003 I was an outsider and I was only able to win because the others didn't recognise me in my Coast jersey. However, it's a long time to the Tour and I'm on the right track."
> 
> Five time Tour winner Eddy Merckx, who is never afraid to speak his mind, told DPA, "It seems that Jan has again not worked hard enough in his previous preparation and is still too much overweight. Sure, he has still over two months, but to beat Lance Armstrong in the Tour will be harder than 2003."
> 
> Ullrich will ride in Wednesday week's Flèche Wallonne (April 21), followed by Liege-Bastogne-Liege (April 25) and the Rund um den Henninger Turm (May 1).


Uter: Don't make me run, I am full of chocolate!

Jan does know it being held _this_ July right?

Your thoughts?


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## bdx1366

Merckx says Ullrich is too fat .That is priceless , Merckx must have one of those carnival slimming mirrors in his home , cause the man is huge.


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## JBergland

bdx1366 said:


> Merckx says Ullrich is too fat .That is priceless , Merckx must have one of those carnival slimming mirrors in his home , cause the man is huge.


Merckx also isn't scheduled to challenge Lance in July either!!

I wonder if Jan isn’t playing a little ‘poker’ himself?? Last year he wasn’t supposed to be a contender until 04’… but there is NO DOUBT in my mind he was going for the WIN right from the very start!! I think Jan will be in just as good a form (if not a little better) come July as 03’. The real questions I have is what form will lance bring?? He’s got more than Jan to be concerned about.

JB


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## elom

Although it hasn't been in public Eddie is not the only one taking note of Jan's current form (or lack thereof). As of recently I've heard the number 8 kilo's being thrown around as the exact amount of excess baggage on Jan's frame. Although I'd consider my sources a little biased towards a certain Texan with whom they have friendship. By no means is it too late to change, but even Peavnage (sp?) noted the other day that Jan is a little behind schedule but nothing to cause a major concern. I tend to believe that quote but also believe that Jan struggles more when more pressure is on him. 

It can be argued that he had all the pressure in the world on him last year but I think Jan came into 2003 with no real pressure as nobody expected him to be so stellar. He was hungry from his time off the bike and really had nowhere to go but up. Now he's at the top again and all the pressure that came with it those previous years is back too. All I know is that I want another tough Tour from Jan and all involved.


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## elom

JBergland said:


> Merckx also isn't scheduled to challenge Lance in July either!!
> 
> I wonder if Jan isn’t playing a little ‘poker’ himself?? Last year he wasn’t supposed to be a contender until 04’… but there is NO DOUBT in my mind he was going for the WIN right from the very start!! I think Jan will be in just as good a form (if not a little better) come July as 03’. The real questions I have is what form will lance bring?? He’s got more than Jan to be concerned about.
> 
> JB


I had the poker theme in my thoughts on the post below too and big ditto on the contenders. In my mind I have the funny idea for OLN Commercial touting the Tour coverage. Lance is working at the Post Office and in line are the likes of Mayo, Hamilton, Ullrich, Basso, Simoni, Heras....each rider has those line ticket numbers they hand out as if they're waiting there turn. Maybe each of them has a parcel under there arm...say Heras is holding a box addresses to the Alpe D time trial.....just a thought


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## Coolhand

I think the most telling point was thet compared his results in the exact race last year versus this year. Last year, 52km breakaway win, this year almost 6 minutes down. 

I am not sure the new team is the best thing to happen to Jan. Maybe the pressure was good for him. At this point, the only Beloki is further behind.


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## Dave Hickey

Coolhand said:


> I am not sure the new team is the best thing to happen to Jan.


I agree, T-Mobile has a lot of chiefs. They remind me of the New York Rangers. Plenty of all stars but will they work together as a team...


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## BergMann

*Back for a 7th straight season: The Much Ado About Ulrich Show!*

Wait 'till the tune-up stage races in May.

It's become a national ritual in Germany to spend the better part of the spring obsessing about Ulrich's weight (and for that matter, why Zabel hasn't won as many races as last year). 
Thank God I don't live over there any more -- if the *****ing and moaning has gotten this loud over here, I don't even want to hear German sports radio!

Don't believe the hype: the only thing that counts in July is your condition when the road goes upwards in the second week.

It is sadly ironic that a porker like Merckx should be running around talking about someone else's weight -- it's kind of like a bunch of fat ex-sorority girls going back to the old house to make catty comments about the waist line on an incoming pledge.

Yeah old Eddy is entitled to his expert opinion, but there's an old line about the pot-bellied calling the kettle...


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## mmoose

Eddy can say anything he wants, he knows what it takes to win.

I think that the smartest thing that LA has ever done is not make JU mad or angry...always calling JU "more talented" has placated him into not working as hard or targeting LA as much. JU is content to sit back and await LA's retirement.

JU has always been an opportunist. He did not win in '97 because he was the favorite, he took advantage of Riis' bad day. Maybe it was just two flat tires at the worse time in '98 (at the bottom of critical mountain finishes) where he lost his time to Pantani, but what has JU won as a favorite under pressure? Yes, there is one major race that he won straight up against the best, the Olympic RR...but then he had 2 Trade Teammates with him for help.
(I have not seen that, but did JU attack, or accidentally ride off the front?)
Has JU ever attacked in the Tour? Not in '97 (he was policing the break when he took the lead). He almost attacked Pantani in '98 on the last mountain stage...it would have been an attack except that Pantani (already in yellow) easily kept up. In 2000, LA bonked on the last mountain stage...no attack there, but JU did try to take advantage and rode strong. (don't remember 2001, will have to dig out the videos)

Maybe I'm defining "attack" a bit too strongly. JU may be too big to really attack like LA in the mountains. He really should hold in the mountains and pull back time in the TTs.

JU without pressure and stress can ride a good race. But, under expectations to win, he rides to "not lose". He won't throw a 100% attack effort out and take the risks of blowing
and not hitting the podium. (He will ride all out on a defensive effort though).

Don't get me wrong, I think that JU is a heck of a rider and I'd like to see him win the Tour again. But they say that you don't win the Tour unless you can attack and kill the opposition. And I've not seen JU put in the real attack that he is capable of. (we're probably all spoiled by watching LA bridge up to a climber or group of climbers and then blowing past them also...)

Weight is not a significant factor for July 24. The more I read about LA and JU's preparations, it seems that they are really targeting that day. Sure, the TT is long...60Km is the longest in a while...last year's were about 48K each...the gaps will be much larger to those climbers who put everything into the mountain week ( Heras will lose 3 minutes, maybe 4 on July 24). But, you still have to get over the mountains within reach of the leaders. LA will be there the night of July 23. But, if JU is 8 kilos over, he will be out of striking distance .

Maybe JU is banking on the first 2 weeks to be hot and he can lose the weight on the road. Even LA has said that he will start the Tour a bit underprepared and ride into form. (Shades of '96 when Mig counted on the same thing and when it was cool and wet, he did not lose the weight and started the mountains heavy...how's that for an omen?)


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## mohair_chair

*that's what everyone said last year*

Remember last year, when Ullrich didn't even have a team, or had a suspect team? Anyone remember what happened during the Tour? 

For those who don't, Ullrich rode a great race and very nearly won. 

I'm sure if Merckx were still racing today, he wouldn't discount Ullrich.


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## Coolhand

mohair_chair said:


> Remember last year, when Ullrich didn't even have a team, or had a suspect team? Anyone remember what happened during the Tour?
> 
> For those who don't, Ullrich rode a great race and very nearly won.
> 
> I'm sure if Merckx were still racing today, he wouldn't discount Ullrich.


Actually, as noted above Ullrich was riding pretty good at this point this year. While his old Coast team was in difficulty, Jan looked the best he had looked for 2-3 years. This year same exact race, much worse result and shape. Apples to Apples. 

Maybe he rides himself into better shape, but Lance isn't the only rider he needs to worry about- especially in the mountains where big tempo change attacks are sure to come from Mayo, Armstrong, Heras, Hamilton and others. Elite racers can't just "flip a switch", and those who think they can often get ugly surprises after "doing their own approach". One of Ullrich own teamates could tell him about that after his terrible race last year, he was demoted to team worker bee. Question is- if Vinko is up a minute or so on Ullrich, how long before the team starts protecting him. He is flying again this year. Just a thought. . .


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## Frith

*Ullrich's climbing style*



mmoose said:


> Has JU ever attacked in the Tour?


He's not one of these flyweights that can dance on the pedals and fly away on steep climbs. He never has been and IMO it would be a mistake to try and be. He's a tempo rider that relies huge lungs and strong legs to grind up the hill at a consistant pace that very few riders can match. He almost rode away from armstrong last year using this tactic. Do you ever notice that he doesn't follow attacks from the flyweights but always catches back up to them eventually? An "attack" as we know it wouldn't serve him well.


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## Cory

*BFD. I say that about myself all the time...*

nmnmnm


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## Sintesi

Coolhand said:


> I think the most telling point was thet compared his results in the exact race last year versus this year. Last year, 52km breakaway win, this year almost 6 minutes down.
> 
> I am not sure the new team is the best thing to happen to Jan. Maybe the pressure was good for him. At this point, the only Beloki is further behind.



Pressure is not a good thing for Jan. The thing about the whole Coast/Bianchi season was that Jan was going into the tour with modest expectations and only aiming for a stage win. It just turned out that LA was worse than previous years and Jan got in better and better shape as the Tour progressed. 

This year with T-Mobile Jan has much increased pressure to win the Tour. Not only is this his main focus (Olympics aside) but his very podium worthy teammates are expected to sacrifice their chances for Jan's victory. In other words, Jan has to win for this season to be a success. If history is any indication this is not a situation to which Jan will respond favorably. 

I wonder if his underperformance and lingering weight issues are a result of some sort of psychological passive/aggressiveness reaction to his high profile role as the anti-Lance. 

I will say that on the OLN Road to the Tour reports, Jan does look very relaxed and unconcerned. Just standing around in his kit he looks lean and strong. So maybe Jan just has a new attitude towards life. But I'm betting the pressure will get to him like befores and will undermine his efforts.


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## BuenosAires

*Interesting.....*

First of all, Merckx is a legend. Comments about his weight now are retarded. He's not racing, but if anyone knows what it takes to win, it'd be him.

Secondly, i think if Jan were a in a little better shape at the start last year, he would've probably won the Tour. Seems like he has that old school mentality when it comes to the Tour. In this age, i don't think you can ride yourself into shape and expect to win. Just my .02.


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## FORZA!

*The Cannibal*



mmoose said:


> Eddy can say anything he wants...


Amen.


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## BergMann

*of 2001, attacking, and eating disorders*



mmoose said:


> Has JU ever attacked in the Tour? ... (don't remember 2001, will have to dig out the videos)


Go back and watch the 2001 tour: Ullrich rode _very_ aggressively in the mountains against Lance. Watch stages 10-14 in particular. You'll even see some out-of-the saddle attacking from Ullrich on stage 13 before his big crash on the descent of the Peyresourde.

I agree with some of the other posts that explosive attacks in the mountains are not necessarily the Kaiser's strength, but the problem has not been for lack of attacking / trying _during_ the race, it has always been more of a question of luck and motivation in his training.

As for the question of Merckx's weight, actually, eating disorders are actually _the topic_ we're discussing on this thread, since Eddy's critique is essentially that Ullrich can't control his eating. Thus it's hardly irrelevant or "retarded" to address the issue of why so many former racers stuff themselves to the gills once they stop competing, it's part of the bigger picture.
Everyone who has ever dealt with anorexia knows that it is a sister complex to bullemia. Isn't it obvious that Merckx is over-compensating for years of asceticism in his eating?
Ullrich has gone on record saying that he doesn't want to live "like a monk" in the off season.
What Merckx is essentially saying to Jan is "you've got the order wrong, _first_ you starve yourself, _then_ you get to pig out once you retire".

Yeah you've got to be sub-7% bodyfat if you want to win a major tour these days, that's a part of cycling.
Still, if someone in my family started putting everything they ate on a digital scale like Lance does, the _first_ thing I'd do is get them some counseling for eating disorders.

Let's call a spade a spade.


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## Coolhand

BergMann said:


> As for the question of Merckx's weight, actually, eating disorders are actually _the topic_ we're discussing on this thread, since Eddy's critique is essentially that Ullrich can't control his eating. Thus it's hardly irrelevant or "retarded" to address the issue of why so many former racers stuff themselves to the gills once they stop competing, it's part of the bigger picture.
> Everyone who has ever dealt with anorexia knows that it is a sister complex to bullemia. Isn't it obvious that Merckx is over-compensating for years of asceticism in his eating?
> Ullrich has gone on record saying that he doesn't want to live "like a monk" in the off season.
> What Merckx is essentially saying to Jan is "you've got the order wrong, _first_ you starve yourself, _then_ you get to pig out once you retire".
> 
> Yeah you've got to be sub-7% bodyfat if you want to win a major tour these days, that's a part of cycling.
> Still, if someone in my family started putting everything they ate on a digital scale like Lance does, the _first_ thing I'd do is get them some counseling for eating disorders.


There is a massive difference between "can't" and "can't be bothered to". Ullrich is in the second category as the quotes you provided will attest. It's not just LA who watches the kilos come tour time, all the major contenders do. While I like Ullrich, if I had his talent I would be using the approach of Hamilton or Armstrong- all business. Big Mig showed the way in this regard, and tellingly in this 6th attempt he let the weight stay on too long and wasn't in top form for the Tour. 

Speaking of guys who got big post-racing, Lemond isn't too small anymore either- at least he wasn't when I saw him at the Trek 100 a couple of years ago. However, he was down to earth, and still very fast and smooth on the bike when he wanted to be. Riding his wheel for a while was pretty damn cool, even if we were in a big group. 

On the Eddy vs Jan point raised by a few people-- scoreboard baby, scoreboard.


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## 97 Teran

*weight schmeight*

Not to discount this thread, as there's been much of interest written, but we really do sound like a bunch of catty witches. As someone said earlier, the only thing that matters is the riders' form and shape starting the 2nd week of the Tour. 

I have every expectation that this will be the most fascinating TdF since Lance's incredible '99 comeback win, with (IMO) several riders capable of winning, not just 2 or at a stretch three as in recent years. I expect Mayo and Heras to severely mess with LA in the mtns., smth. which hasn't really happened to him since he started winning. And Ullrich? He'll be up to the challenge. Doesn't mean he'll win, but he'll be up for it.


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## Sintesi

mmoose said:


> JU has always been an opportunist. He did not win in '97 because he was the favorite, he took advantage of Riis' bad day.



Riis had a lot of "bad days" in the 97 tour. Riis suffered like a dog anytime the rode went up and had great difficulty staying with the lead group. The term "mask of pain" comes to mind. Jan was clearly the class of the bunch that year. This was no "opportunist" performance, he dominated.

And truth be known he probably could have won in '96 if he wasn't protecting Riis.


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## MerckxMad

*Hey,*

that's King Eddy you're talking about, and the last time I checked he's not scheduled to take the start line in July.


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## schimanski

*2001*



BergMann said:


> Go back and watch the 2001 tour: Ullrich rode _very_ aggressively in the mountains against Lance. Watch stages 10-14 in particular. You'll even see some out-of-the saddle attacking from Ullrich on stage 13 before his big crash on the descent of the Peyresourde.


What was Ullrich's situation at the start of TdF 2001? Was he already in shape or still full of wurst?

All I remember is Jan doing the Giro that year and he was way out of shape to be a contender for overall or even stage wins.


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## djg

*I'm sorry, are people seriously criticizing King Eddy's fitness*

now that he is pushing 60 years of age? (and will be 60 by tour time) He cannot critique Ullrich because he, himself, no longer looks like a bike racer now that he's more than three decades past his prime? Have I got that right?

The man suffered for years and had unparalleled accomplishments on the bike. Look, quite apart from the rather obvious facts that different folks age differently and he's not racing anymore, I'd say that (a) he can say whatever he wants, (b) he's entitled to a few extra frites in his golden years, and (c) whether he's heavy or lean in late middle-age doesn't have a darn thing to do with his accumulated knowledge or wisdom about cycling.


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## AJS

Yup, Merckx has earned the right to squawk about any cyclist he feels like. And it's not uncommon to gain weight as you age. But he is kind of a load. Does he even ride anymore?

It's not a question of his sheer ability, but I don't think Jan has quite enough discipline to rock Lance's world this year. Also, Lance has a much bigger incentive to win #6 than Jan does to win #2.


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## BergMann

*Time to take off the ideological beergoggles...*



djg said:


> He cannot critique Ullrich because he, himself, no longer looks like a bike racer now that he's more than three decades past his prime? Have I got that right?


Time to take off the ideological beergoggles of cyclisme and step outside our little box for a moment here.

In the real world there is a word for someone who condemns someone else for doing the same thing they're doing:
hypocrite.

Granted Eddy actually used to practice what he preaches back in his active days, so while this mitigates the hypocrisy factor, it does nothing to change the absurd situational irony of a fat man, old or young, criticizing a very lean man for being too fat.

Add this to the genuinely-troubling, real-world, phenomenal link of endurance sports with eating disorders, and yes Hamlet, there's something rotten in Denmark, and methinks it's emanating from the vicinity of the King's mouth ...

Of course Eddy can say whatever he wants, and is the one human being most entitled to speak on the matter of winning bicycle races.

This does not mean, however, that every thing that comes out of the man's mouth is becoming of his stature as the champion of champions.
Does anyone remember Eddy howling about Lance picking on his poor boy at LBL last year, calling him "over confident"? That from "The Cannibal"?!

Let's face it: it is possible to speak the truth and still be wrong in saying it.
I don't care how loudly everyone insists the emperor is wearing clothes just because he's the emperor: for someone of such fabled tactical intelligence, Eddy should have the tact to be embarrassed about calling _anyone_ else fat.
If he isn't, then we should be for him.


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## wielerpret

*I too doubt the seriousness of Der Jan*

Hi Coolhand,
For years now we have observed Lance consienciously and meticulously preparing himself and his team for the TdF. Preparation for next year starts almost at the finish of this years' race. Does Ulrich really think he stands a ghost of a chance going about things like this; gaining and having to lose so much weight is so little time? Merckx to my mind is absolutely right.
It is known that Oscar Freire needs very few kms of training and only a couple of races to achieve optimal racing form while Erich Zabel usually has 14.000 kms on the clock even before the Omloop 'tVolk. I don't believe that Ulrich can risk again to think he's another sprinter Oscarito and win, I mean WIN the TdF. He would do well to try some of Armstrong's methods.
Anyway, we'll see.
Luke van Iwaarden, Amsterdam, NL
www.iwaarden.com




Coolhand said:


> Uter: Don't make me run, I am full of chocolate!
> 
> Jan does know it being held _this_ July right?
> 
> Your thoughts?


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## Coolhand

wielerpret said:


> Hi Coolhand,
> For years now we have observed Lance consienciously and meticulously preparing himself and his team for the TdF. Preparation for next year starts almost at the finish of this years' race. Does Ulrich really think he stands a ghost of a chance going about things like this; gaining and having to lose so much weight is so little time? Merckx to my mind is absolutely right.
> It is known that Oscar Freire needs very few kms of training and only a couple of races to achieve optimal racing form while Erich Zabel usually has 14.000 kms on the clock even before the Omloop 'tVolk. I don't believe that Ulrich can risk again to think he's another sprinter Oscarito and win, I mean WIN the TdF. He would do well to try some of Armstrong's methods.
> Anyway, we'll see.
> Luke van Iwaarden, Amsterdam, NL
> www.iwaarden.com


Hi wielerpret,

I agree. But Armstrong's methods are in many was those of Big Mig and even Lemond. Add in Carmichael's training ideas and Armstrong's pro-cancer fierce personal determination, and an understanding of what races are truly important and you having a winning formula. 

But I think there are more then a few riders following that approach- Tyler, Levi and others all seem to use many of the same techniques. Mentioning Zabel was also illuminating- if Ullrich had Zabel's professionalism and dedication he would have had a much better career. Zabel is a guy I respect because he got every single ounce of effort out of himself to maximize the impact of his talent. 

Ullrich is a gifted cyclist, but sometimes I wonder if he has the absolute burning need to win like the greats do.


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## djg

*Sorry BergMan, I still disagree.*

I don't want to delve too deeply into Eddy's motivation, about which I have no secret intelligence in any case. But I don't see that there's any hypocrisy in his criticism of Ullrich at all. Let's read his statement with just a bit of sense as regards context. Do you really think he's saying that Jan is too fat, qua, some guy or other just walking around and living his life? Too fat to be a bus driver? Too fat to be healthy through his 60s and 70s? Too fat to be a high fashion model doing his little turn on the catwalk? Too fat for, let's say, an aging bike manufacturer? I seriously doubt it. He's not talking about popular health issues, he's talking about bike racing. People suffer and make sacrifices to win. Eddy is saying that Ullrich is not making the proper sacrifices. Now it may be that he is wrong about that. Or it may be that he's right but that he's not putting it in a nice way. Heck, it may even be the case that he's right but only as an unfortunate reflection of the brutal and unhealthy choices foisted on riders by the pro racing scene--although I'm not saying so and that's a different argument altogether. But it's not hypocritical to criticize Ullrich's regimen because Merckx suffered plenty while he was competing. He did what it took. Period.


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## Wayne77

*agreed*

For the same reason its not hypocritical for an overweight sportscaster or coach to comment about a pro ball players weight, its not hypocritical for Merkx to comment on Jan's weight. Its commentary, analysis, opinion, call it what you will. If this comment was hypocritical then were all a bunch of [email protected] hypocrites.


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## froze

It doesn't matter, my money is on Tyler Hamilton this year. Reason, because he should have won it last year and did quite well inspite of a broken collar bone; this year he's pissed at last year, he will make a statement, and poor Lance is going to have to bow down. Lance is very distracted this year I cannot see how he is going to win it, but...


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