# 1967 Cinelli



## jet sanchEz (Nov 28, 2005)

Hi, this popped up close to me but I don't know too much about bikes of this vintage, I believe it is a Mod SC but I cannot be sure. It is my size and I don't need another bike but this bike looks like it has potential.

This is a one owner bike, he bought it in 1967 and has ridden it ever since. Are the brakes and brake levers Campagnolo? He says everything on the bike is Campy but they don't look like any Campy levers I have seen before.

Where did Gran Sport fall in the lineup? It has fender eyelets, is it a touring model? He has the original seat and he is checking the garage for fenders but thinks that they were thrown out, were the old Cinelli fenders plastic?

Thanks for any input.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

Campy xprts will likely correct me, but I believe the Gran Sport was the precurser to the Record derailleur...though it is possible they coexisted in the line-up for a while, with the Record being a step up. As for the brakes, it's hard to judge. I can't quite get a fix on the hubs, either.

In any case, that is a bicycle to die for. The seat is obviously out of character for the bike, but the rest of it looks thrillingly, chillingly original. The bicycle looks to be in crazy, time-warp condition. If it were my size, I'd be flying out there right now and buying it out from under you.


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## velomateo (Mar 7, 2009)

That bikes looks fantastic. If you can get it for a good price, and it fits, I would jump on it. I wouldn't let any of the components keep you from buying it - the frame alone is worth a considerable amount of money because it looks to be in amazing condition. The brakes, at least the levers, look to be Mavic and the calipers could be Mavic LC's. Campagnolo Grand Sport was a notch below Record - heavier and not as polished as the Record stuff.

Definately try and get the original saddle. The one installed looks rediculous and I think he may have changed out the seat post too. I wouldn't wait on this one. Good luck.


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## wooglin (Feb 22, 2002)

velomateo said:


> That bikes looks fantastic. If you can get it for a good price, and it fits, I would jump on it. I wouldn't let any of the components keep you from buying it - the frame alone is worth a considerable amount of money because it looks to be in amazing condition. The brakes, at least the levers, look to be Mavic and the calipers could be Mavic LC's. Campagnolo Grand Sport was a notch below Record - heavier and not as polished as the Record stuff.
> 
> Definately try and get the original saddle. The one installed looks rediculous and I think he may have changed out the seat post too. I wouldn't wait on this one. Good luck.


I think you mean Mafac, not Mavic. 

Also, if they're worn out, finding those 3-arm chainrings isn't easy.


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## SJX426 (Oct 6, 2008)

The levers look like Universal to me. The centerpulls may have been replaced witht he side pulls.
Regardless of size, it is worth purchasing if the price is anywhere reasonable.


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## zmudshark (Jan 28, 2007)

The fork looks more like a Mod B to me, the fenders were metal. The brakes could be Universals.

Give him his asking price, don't hesitate.


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## SJX426 (Oct 6, 2008)

Upon second look, the QR "nuts" are exaclty like the ones used on TIPO hubs like theses:


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## velomateo (Mar 7, 2009)

wooglin said:


> I think you mean Mafac, not Mavic.



You are correct sir, my bad.


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## orbeamike (Nov 20, 2004)

If it were in my area. I would have most certainly picked it up and not given it second thought. The original seat and seatpost are a MUST!

Let us know how it turns out for you. more pics and may be a sale price?????

Awesome find!


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## ArmyLTC (Dec 12, 2010)

What does he want for it? Does he still have any of the parts he changed out? I would buy it if the price was right.


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## harpon (Jan 4, 2011)

Yes it looks like a precursor to Record- just before the Record gruppo- So the dating seems about correct- maybe even earlier, and with the small sales and shipping here- it could be older

Is that a cottered crank? when I became aware of it all about 1970- the Campy Record, was the standard, but a "full-campy bike"generally included anything with Universal side-pull brakes- Those are Universal brakes on your cinielli.. I think the record brakes may have been introduced slightly later, and then at $50 for a set, it was considered extravagant-

my own first "full campy" setup- a Gitane- had the record side-pull brakes brakes and I got it in 1971. Simplex was the next thing under- The'67 Peugeot PX10 I have now, with Stronglight 93 crank, and simplex components was the next model down. I still recall the prices- I got my Gitane for $400 and the Peugeot was going for $289 I think. I lived in indianapolis then and there wasn't a shop there you could buy anything- except if you order a Paramount from Schwinn- no store there actually HAD one.

So we set off to Steve's Cycle Center in Dayton Ohio, over 100 miles away, and I intended to get a Peugeot, but got steered to the Gitane, and glad I did.

Alloy stems replaced the steel one on the road, but the Full Campy Paramount track bike I got in 1975 was still fitted with a steel stem and deep drop bars. I trashed them at Northbrook that summer when I got caught behind a huge wreck and pushed into the ropes at the top, where they had an unfortunate meeting with a steel post that supported those ropes.

The Cinelli's a classic. I'd go for it.


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

I'm with ZMudshark--looks like a Cinelli 'B'--in which case the cottered crank, non-allen bolt stem, Universal brakes and Grand Sport rear mech are all likely to be original and correct for dating it around 1967. 

("B" has the non-sloping fork crown)

Earlier frame would have an oiler cap on the BB area---did you check to see if this has one?

Oh yeah, buy it--or if you don't want it, pass along the details I will!


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

I don't know what he's asking, but anything short of a grand would probably be worth it for the frame and fork alone.


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## BryanSayer (Sep 22, 2009)

harpon said:


> Alloy stems replaced the steel one on the road, but the Full Campy Paramount track bike I got in 1975 was still fitted with a steel stem and deep drop bars. I trashed them at Northbrook that summer when I got caught behind a huge wreck and pushed into the ropes at the top, where they had an unfortunate meeting with a steel post that supported those ropes.


Hmmm... Was that Nationals in 75? I was there then. They had the t-shirts where Illinois is misspelled. I still have mine. But not the Frejeus I was riding then.


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## jet sanchEz (Nov 28, 2005)

Well, I haven't seen the bike yet but the owner and I talked and he says he would like to get $1200 for it. I see that as a fair price and it will include the original seat and seatpost and some paniers for the front and back. He cannot find the fenders, which is a little bit disappointing but he thinks he lost them in a move way back when. 

I am going to sleep on it and see how I feel about it. it is a little more than I wanted to spend. 

If I buy the bike, I intend to ride it (on nice days), other than switching out the brake levers, I should be just fine, right? I think it would look really great with gum hoods and new blue bar tape, what brake levers would y'all recommend? The wheels are apparently clinchers, which is a good thing, I guess Panselas would be the obvious choice?

Are there any catalogs online where I can see what this bike would have looked like in it's heyday?

Thanks again for the input, all the post have been very helpful.

Cheers.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

Try this link.

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Italy/Cinelli.htm


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## zmudshark (Jan 28, 2007)

http://www.cinellionly.blogspot.com/

http://cinellionly.blogspot.com/search/label/Cinelli B


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## harpon (Jan 4, 2011)

Um, the wheels are probably SEW UPS. If they were clinchers, they'd be on a 27" rim- 700C didn't come along until the 80's, to replicate the same daimeter as the sew up rim.

So this will probably be an additional expense- I personally think 1200 a bit high- albeit the bike is a classic- you can get a lot of practicality for that kind of money. I"d try to get him down if you're going ahead- 

there's really not that many people that will lay down that kind of bread for a collectors item in these times. But if it's not that much of a problem, I don't want to discourage you- I just think that with switching rims over you'll get into more expense and it is a lot of money.

for brakes I'd probably just go for some asian campy style knockoffs - you can get them on ebay for about 25. Or else there's the real thing at considerably more. Probably very hard to find genuine good Record hoods these days.

good luck


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

harpon said:


> for brakes I'd probably just go for some asian campy style knockoffs - you can get them on ebay for about 25. Or else there's the real thing at considerably more. Probably very hard to find genuine good Record hoods these days.
> 
> good luck


Yes! A fine idea!

Another fine idea:


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## abarth (Aug 12, 2008)

Mapei said:


> Yes! A fine idea!
> 
> Another fine idea:


lmao  



harpon said:


> for brakes I'd probably just go for some asian campy style knockoffs - you can get them on ebay for about 25. Or else there's the real thing at considerably more. Probably very hard to find genuine good Record hoods these days.


Great idea harpon, go tell the OP what Campy hoods he should get for those Universal brake levers.


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## harpon (Jan 4, 2011)

He asked about levers.

The Universal levers always have that big fitting outta the top, but other than that, I think most rubber hoods would work- You probably wouldn't find Universal- a brake not much seen since early 70's.

Nice levers w/ the hoods can be had for about 25- 
just sayin


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

The buyer could continue to tape them, just like the owner currently has them, 1940's super old school style. On a sheer practical level, with the old handlebar shape and the length of the brake lever bodies, I always found riding on the hoods to be like sticking your hands into a vise. Did riders ride the hoods much in those days, anyway?


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

Richard wins as far as guessing the price. 

A model B (in about the same condition going by the photos) just closed on eBay for $1032. 

It had comparable (2nd tier) equipment but was clearly marked as a "B". So he may be a little high on his price...

The original Cinelli fenders would be a rare addition--the racers all threw them away or lost them--and that would add to the value.

If it has the sloping fork (check some pictures if you don't know what this is) and/or is clearly marked SC it is the higher end "A" model & would be worth the $1200.


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## jet sanchEz (Nov 28, 2005)

Wow, I think that is a great price for that bike on ebay, I think if the seller had put it in a better category, it would have sold for more. Thanks for the link, I had no idea there was a "Collectible" sub-section for bikes.

I have been watching this frame/fork as it appears to be in similar shape to the one I am interested in

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330516052860&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


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## abarth (Aug 12, 2008)

There was a restored Cinelli B at my LBS earlier last year. The price was $900. It was repainted, the chrome was great, decal headbadge and it had Nuovo Record gruppo. It was gone in 2 days, I am still kicking myself for not buying it.


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## zmudshark (Jan 28, 2007)

Here is an SC ending tomorrow:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330516052860&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

A buddy of mine picked up and early 531 SC w/fenders for under $200 a couple of years ago. I offered him $2k, he passed.


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

There's a parallel discussion on the CR email list about the Cinelli model differences--and someone posted from the Ron Kitching "Everything Cycling" catalog.

The series is not complete, but the earlier catalogs just refer to "Corsa" and "Super Corsa" as the two models.

The 1970 catalog refers to the cheaper model as a "B":

1970 Everything Cycling catalog:

Corsa B : 72 parallel head and seat angles; Campagnolo Gran Sport or standard forged fork ends; Columbus main triangle tubes, Falck fork blades and rear stays; finish [Metallic Red; chrome plating on fork crown [note: flat fork crown], top and bottom head lugs, front and rear fork ends]
> 
Super Corsa: Campagnolo Gran Sport fork ends; tubing: Columbus reinforced 
throughout or with Reynolds 531 main triangle tubes on request; chrome on 
full front forks [note: sloping fork crown], top and bottom head lugs, seat 
lugs, rear fork ends, four chrome rings on seat tube; finish [Star silver 
with two Olympic bands on seat tube; other colors to your own choice by 
special order with several months delay]

The next closest catalog is for 1963 and does not list tubing, and the models are simply Corsa and Super Corsa.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

Maybe we can resurrect old Cino and ask him when he first used his famous fork crowns.


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

It would be nice if there were build sheets by serial #. 

One of the CR members thinks that there were SC models where the owners picked the flat crown fork because they rode better on rough roads, while the sloping crown did better on smooth roads. So the OP's bike could be an SC...

And I thought the fork crown was the one identifying feature that you could use to tell the models apart.

Jeff's email to the CR list

"The discussion recently about the Model B Cinelli has been of interest to me. Notable differences between the Model B (Corsa) and the Model SC (Super Corsa or Speciale Corsa) seem to be inconsistent, based on my observations. 

The most obvious difference is between the fork crowns. However, I have even seen one bike, decaled, chromed, and equipped as an SC, but with the flat Model B style fork crown. The sloping crown was best for smooth pavement, and did not ride too comfortably on European cobble stone streets. So, perhaps some buyers specified the flat crown in the interest of comfort.

The Model B's seem to have more consistently used the wider World Champion stripes with white background, vs. the narrower WC stripes on gold or chrome background often found on Model SC's. Also, Model B's often have more sparing use of chrome plating, but this is certainly inconsistent. It seems, from the bikes that I have observed, that early '60's Model B's did not have the top and bottom oil ports in the bottom bracket shells like the SC's. There may have been some differences in frame materials for the rear stays, but I can't comment with certainty. I would only say that I have weighed a Model B bare frame compared to a Model SC, and the B was slightly (150 grams) heavier. I'm sure there were differences in "standard equipment" but I have seen many Model B's equipped with the same Campagnolo and Weinmann/Mafac/Universal stuff as the SC's.

Cinellis were such low production bikes, with only a few hundred frames made each year. A significant portion of that production was custom ordered. Geometry, in particular, seat angle, could be varied based on customer preference and frame size. Also, equipment varied with importer/retailer. So, it is difficult to generalize about what was "standard".'
:mad2: 
:


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## harpon (Jan 4, 2011)

The Universal hoods are available at least once and awhile I guess
http://cgi.ebay.com/NOS-Univesal-Br...044?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33642ea2dc


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

paredown said:


> I have even seen one bike, decaled, chromed, and equipped as an SC, but with the flat Model B style fork crown


Possible, since so many SC's were made to measure, but so unusual that it's hard to believe. Since the early 70s I've seen a lot of SC's in the flesh here and in Europe and not once have I ever heard of such a thing. More likely it was a Mod. B that was repainted. Even the Cinelli SC ladies' version had the sloping crown.
Although a bit more expensive than EBay that bike is worth it. You are getting to inspect it firsthand, not possible on EBay, and you won't pay shipping which can be ridiculously expensive. And you don't have to worry about the bike arriving mangled...


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## zmudshark (Jan 28, 2007)

The eBay bike is up to$1600 with a half hour to go.


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## SJX426 (Oct 6, 2008)

Universal gum hood replicas are available. I like the shape and feel of them for vintage levers. If I were to replace them, look at Tektro or SC5 that give better mechanical advantage and ergo.
There is a guy mentioned all the time on bikeforms.com who makes batchs of Universal or Campy replica hoods. do a search.
If you don't want the levers, I would be happy to have them. I need a replacement. PM me.


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## Wheelspeed (Nov 3, 2006)

Off topic, but, wow, that's a smart old guy. I don't know much about the bike, but, it looks like he bought a bike about 30 years ago, enjoyed it, cared for it, never bought a damn thing for it and is now going to get about 2x more than he paid for it! Meanwhile, I 'upgrade' stuff with light and weak chinese stuff, beat it to hell, and have to toss it away for nothing later. What am I doing wrong?  (Rhetoricle question!)


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## harpon (Jan 4, 2011)

I think something in the "beat it to hell" part.


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## abarth (Aug 12, 2008)

Wheelspeed said:


> Off topic, but, wow, that's a smart old guy. I don't know much about the bike, but, it looks like he bought a bike about 30 years ago, enjoyed it, cared for it, never bought a damn thing for it and is now going to get about 2x more than he paid for it! Meanwhile, I 'upgrade' stuff with light and weak chinese stuff, beat it to hell, and have to toss it away for nothing later. What am I doing wrong?  (Rhetoricle question!)


If you don't understand why an old Cinelli is worth twice more now than when it was new, then vintage classic bikes are not for you.


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## harpon (Jan 4, 2011)

Probably 5 to 6 times the original retail price is closer- but yes, it's sorta irrellevant-

and it depends on how one intends to use it- if you're like thinking of it being an antique piece and keeping it original, the you probably won't be wanting to change much-

if you want to bring something up more to riding speed or more modern standard, then you might want to replace the crank and stuff and then that's even more money

i ride a '67 Peugeot PX10 I've had since 1987- (Got it for $100 then ) I replaced the Mafac brakes and sew-ups long ago- and the crank now recently, and I'm painting the lugs- I'll post a thread soon.

I've both wanted to maintain it's integrity-- but I like to improve it. I messed up the Simplex rear derailleur, put on Shimano but have a Nuovo Record for it.
I put BMX bars and stem on about a year ago, which really helps the old aching back...

here's a piuc about a year old- the original black lugs are now gold leaf- and it's great looking, because it has really intricate lugwork on the full reynolds 531 frame-

There's an older photo, I'm with my 80 Toyota- It was home for several weeks- circa 1991

Anyway- So what's up with the Cinelli- Has it been bought?


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## depoca (Jun 14, 2011)

The bike is definitly a Cinelli modello B, Corsa. With it's flat fork crown and Gran Sport components.
A Speciale Corsa / Super Corsa would have sloping fork crown and Nuovo Record or later Super Record components.

But non the less modello B is a great bike.


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## High Gear (Mar 9, 2002)

jet sanchez, you left us hanging here. Did you grab the bike??


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## jet sanchEz (Nov 28, 2005)

Hi guys, no, I didn't end up buying it, the timing just wasn't right. 

Another one will come my way I am sure. Thanks for all the help everyone provided, I learned a lot in this thread.


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

depoca said:


> The bike is definitly a Cinelli modello B, Corsa. With it's flat fork crown and Gran Sport components.
> A Speciale Corsa / Super Corsa would have sloping fork crown and Nuovo Record or later Super Record components.
> 
> But non the less modello B is a great bike.


Read the rest of the thread--the sections I quoted from the CR list especially. I used to race on a "B" and know very well that it is great bike, but as the discussion above was intended to show, *not all "A"'s have the sloping crown*, so in the absence of a decal stating that it is unequivocally a "B" then there is necessarily some doubt. 

Not all early "A"s have full Campy as well...


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## sryanak (Apr 15, 2010)

harpon said:


> Um, the wheels are probably SEW UPS. If they were clinchers, they'd be on a 27" rim- 700C didn't come along until the 80's, to replicate the same daimeter as the sew up rim.
> 
> /QUOTE]
> 
> I have 700c clinchers I purchased in the mid 70's.


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## clem91 (Aug 1, 2011)

What a very beautifull bike you have . Very lucky


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