# The Philippe Gilbert Way



## aingeru (Aug 29, 2010)

VELO MAGAZINE (FR) Nr. 479 October 2010.

Velo Magazine: Avez-vous le sentiment d'être un coureur à l'ancienne?
Philippe Gilbert: Non, sinon je ne ferais pas de résultat. Mais c'est vrai que je travaille 
plutôt aux sensations. Dans l'équipe, on a un Powertap, mais je ne l'utilise pas.
Je n'ai même pas de cardio, mais je sais toujours où j'en suis. Je n'analyse jamais mes
entraînements sur ordinateur ou graphique. Je n'ai aucune idée des watts que je développe
dans une montée. Ca ne sert à rien. Ce qu'il faut regarder, c'est la vitesse à laquelle tu vas, et la différence que tu fais par rapport aux autres.

Translated, comes to something like this:

Velo Magazine: Dou you have the feeling of being and old style rider?
Philippe Gilbert: No, then I would not get any result. But it is true that I train mostly
by feeling. In the team, we have Powertap but I do not use it. I do not even have a heart rate monitor, but I always know where I am. I never analyze my training with the computer or graphics. I have not the clue about how many watts I produce in a climb. That is
totally unimportant. What you have to check is how fast you are moving, and the difference you do in relation to other.

COMMENTS?


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

aingeru said:


> COMMENTS?


Comments? Of course a racer can train without external monitors. It helps if you've been racing your whole life, in an organized system where juniors are well-coached. But how many who come to the sport in their twenties or thirties can say "I always know where I am"?


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## MontyCrisco (Sep 21, 2008)

Some people have natural talent and have a job where they're paid to ride. I have neither. Especially with limited time I think power (or even HR) data help with things like: where my strengths are/aren't, and how they stack up from season to season, year to year; what type of training I ought to be doing; whether I'm actually training the energy systems/abilities I think I am; what racing strategy will work for me.

I agree that in a race (other than maybe a TT?), monitoring power doesn't give you lots of super-instant information. But having that data after the fact does help for analyzing how to do better next time.

But to each their own. Phil's the man.


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

Measuring watts does not change our training methods, only the metric with which we measure our efforts. When even the "training zones" we aspire to are essentially arbitrary, why bother? Hard is hard, fast is fast.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Some of the fastest guys around here don't use power or HR either. I've always wondered if training with power/structured plan would make these guys even "stronger/faster"? Or might it have the opposite affect? And for Gilbert? Who knows.


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## Keski (Sep 25, 2004)

He will never win anything training that way......Oh........nevermind.


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

i'm a clueless hack who doesnt know how to train or race. without a power meter i'd be even more of a hack so i dont see how what gilbert is or isnt doing affects me in any way.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

keep in mind Gilbert has been riding and racing since he was a kid... he's likely pedaled the same roads in the same times of year, up the same bergs, hundreds or thousands of times. 

For example, maybe he knows that last year in late Feb he could do the Koppenberg at the end of a six hour ride in the 39x16 and this year he felt good doing it in the 39x15... 

Or maybe he knows that at a certain local race, last year in early March he was able to hit the front but not do anything effective, but this year he hit the front and had an attack to good effect that split the field...

Things like that are the measurement that riders like that use. Time trials on their favorite courses. Motorpacing. Riding with their buddies. They may not have digital outputs, but they have measurements.


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## bruce_wayne (Apr 30, 2010)

Interesting...
FWIW, Magnus Backstedt was doing commentary for Eurosport during one of this Spring's races (can't remember which) and I thought he said Oscar Freire (or was it Juan Antonio Flecha?) was the only pro who used no training aids whatsoever (power meters, intervals, etc.) but just rode until he felt tired...or something like that.


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## huckleberry (Jun 26, 2005)

Funny to read responses and the tone of defensiveness about justifying their power meters - just admit it, you like gadgets and the like - make you feel like you are that much closer to being legit, until the next gadget comes along... ; )


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## Gripped (Nov 27, 2002)

Creakyknees said:


> keep in mind Gilbert has been riding and racing since he was a kid... he's likely pedaled the same roads in the same times of year, up the same bergs, hundreds or thousands of times.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Things like that are the measurement that riders like that use. Time trials on their favorite courses. Motorpacing. Riding with their buddies. They may not have digital outputs, but they have measurements.


I certainly don't have the experience of Mr. Gilbert but I've ditched the meters. Never had a PM and no longer use a HRM. I trained and with HRM for about 4 years. Now I go by perceived effort and I'm not afraid to call off a session if I just don't have it. At 45 years, an easy/rest day can make me faster than "pushing through" some craptacular efforts.

Yeah, you can effectively train without the gadgets. But you have to listen to your legs and have the mental fortitude to go hard and go easy.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

I think the only downside to training with a PM is for some people it can place too much importance on the numbers and take enjoyment out of riding. Gilbert could potentially improve the quality of his training sessions with a PM, but if it drains his motivation to ride it's not worth it. At the same time, that may be one of the contributing factors to his success - a greater passion to ride.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

huckleberry said:


> Funny to read responses and the tone of defensiveness about justifying their power meters - just admit it, you like gadgets and the like - make you feel like you are that much closer to being legit, until the next gadget comes along... ; )


Having been a bassist and guitarist long before I got into cycling, it's funny how gear heavy or anti-gear people can be. It's not a power meter or lack thereof that's holding us back from being as good as Gilbert. That's for sure. 

Gilbert has been training and racing for many years and bringing results. He can do whatever the heck he wants. I wouldn't be too surprised if his coach wants to see numbers for the sake of their sponsors, but on the same token, I see them doing whatever it takes to keep him happy and winning.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

Cableguy said:


> Gilbert could potentially improve the quality of his training sessions with a PM[.]


But the point of training is to improve the quality of _racing_ sessions.

A powermeter is like any other gadget: it can be used skillfully, or unskillfully. There are various theories out there for how power data can be used to _optimize_ training in one respect or another, but AFAIK there are no good empirical data to support this.


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

Cableguy said:


> I think the only downside to training with a PM is for some people it can place too much importance on the numbers and take enjoyment out of riding.


Boiling the effort down to a single number does seem to strip the joy out of the ride for many of us, true. But it does even more: it distracts us from the important subjective factors that affect our efforts. To race (or even ride) at our best we need to be more aware of our motivation, stress, and overall fitness, not less.

Also, to be honest, my first problem with pms is the expense. Hundreds or thousands of dollars for a fancy speedo. This isn't something that actually makes us faster (compare aero wheels, lighter equipment, etc). It doesn't even change our methods. In a sport that borders on prohibitively expensive I find the market-driven "need" for hard numbers a bit ridiculous. Why don't we all buy gram scales to help us lose weight?


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

huckleberry said:


> Funny to read responses and the tone of defensiveness about justifying their power meters - just admit it, you like gadgets and the like - make you feel like you are that much closer to being legit, until the next gadget comes along... ; )


There's definitely some truth to your post. 


But why stop there?

There's also the fact that most of us don't need the high caliper in road bikes I see on this website either. 

Polar vs. Powertap

Trek Madone 6.9 SSL vs. Trek Madone 3.1

The price difference is large enough to buy two sets of Zipp wheelsets AND the weight difference is small enough to be offset by losing some of our own body fat.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

JohnStonebarger said:


> Also, to be honest, my first problem with pms is the expense. Hundreds or thousands of dollars for a fancy speedo. This isn't something that actually makes us faster (compare aero wheels, lighter equipment, etc). It doesn't even change our methods. In a sport that borders on prohibitively expensive I find the market-driven "need" for hard numbers a bit ridiculous. Why don't we all buy gram scales to help us lose weight?


The expense is very unfortunate, otherwise I suspect they'd be standard equipment with most racers. Like most things technological, I have a feeling that the tech will eventually get cheaper, which does not help us at the moment, unfortunately. 

The reason I finally got power was because I noticed how much weather could influence my average speed for the same TT routes. Sometimes the differences were several MPH. Was I stronger on certain days? Not sure, but I'd like to start finding out.


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## T0mi (Mar 2, 2011)

I remember when I was racing that I used HR only to satisfy my trainer (he loved to watch graphs) but I always put tape on the HR screen because seeing too high numbers were holding me. Cycling is pretty much 80% a psychological sport. Sometimes you just have to go in the red line, even if it means you risk blowing out in the next kilometers. You just have to take gambles and it pay when the other riders confidence is just crushed.

And you have to know yourself. Meters and HR are not really helping. To be successfull, you have to feel your legs and heart, not looking at numbers and do maths. This is not formula one.


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## ChilliConCarnage (Jun 1, 2006)

cda 455 said:


> There's also the fact that most of us don't need the high caliper in road bikes I see on this website either.


I may not need a power meter, but I sure do need my calipers!


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

JohnStonebarger said:


> Boiling the effort down to a single number does seem to strip the joy out of the ride for many of us, true. But it does even more: it distracts us from the important subjective factors that affect our efforts. To race (or even ride) at our best we need to be more aware of our motivation, stress, and overall fitness, not less.
> 
> Also, to be honest, my first problem with pms is the expense. Hundreds or thousands of dollars for a fancy speedo. This isn't something that actually makes us faster (compare aero wheels, lighter equipment, etc). It doesn't even change our methods. In a sport that borders on prohibitively expensive I find the market-driven "need" for hard numbers a bit ridiculous. Why don't we all buy gram scales to help us lose weight?


Actually its only a fancy speedo if you don't know how to use it right. 

If you use it right its effective tool that allows me to see a hardline metric to train against and make the most of my limited time to train. Could I train without it? Sure would I, personally, be as effective? No. 

Actually it changed my methods alot - I ride far less than I use to and yet race/perform far better so it does in effect make me faster the effect was most pronounced in my TTs where I got much faster withe same equipment post training withe power which not only made me stronger/faster but let me understand pacing much better than before. 

I consider it worth alot more than, say, carbon wheels (which I no longer have) and the like.


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

32and3cross said:


> Actually its only a fancy speedo if you don't know how to use it right.


How so?

I've read the literature. As far as I can tell the power meter measures your effort, but you still have to pedal. For that matter, you have to decide how hard and how long to pedal, too.

I'm a big fan of higher intensity, lower volume training, but HIT wasn't invented by the power meter. Oddly enough, most of the best research on training methods for endurance athletes seems to come from sports without the benefit of power meters.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

JohnStonebarger said:


> How so?
> 
> I've read the literature. As far as I can tell the power meter measures your effort, but you still have to pedal. For that matter, you have to decide how hard and how long to pedal, too.
> 
> I'm a big fan of higher intensity, lower volume training, but HIT wasn't invented by the power meter. Oddly enough, most of the best research on training methods for endurance athletes seems to come from sports without the benefit of power meters.



Read the rest of what I wrote, that explains it well enough.


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

32and3cross said:


> Read the rest of what I wrote, that explains it well enough.


I did. It seems to avoid the whole question of training methodology.

If the power meter itself really made the difference that would be all we needed. But it's not. As any proponent of pms will say, we need a training plan. It's the training plan, the actual method to our madness, that makes the difference. If the pm motivates us to follow the plan, great. But I seriously doubt that any of our planned workouts couldn't be conducted without a pm.

A couple years ago one of the bike geeks online asked Dr. Andrew Coggan -- the guru of training with powermeters -- what intensity was best for 4 minute intervals. Coggan's answer? As hard as possible while still allowing you to finish your prescribed intervals.

It's not the metric. It's the method.


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

I will pose the argument that a PM has helped me to redefine my perceived effort. 

I have never been an endurance athlete (football, basketball, track - sprinter, bodybuilding, etc.). Interestingly, when am at the end of a race and have to sprint, I always have more power/energy than I thought and the pain from sprinting is doesn't bother me. 

So, my mind does not understand how my body should feel during prolonged hard efforts (I'm horrible at ITT). I have found that I can stay in zone 4 power ranges for longer than I originally thought. If I used perceived effort, I would stop much sooner. The power meter allows me to slowly train my brain to tolerate the perceived effort (or pain/discomfort) with longer hard efforts. 

Gilbert did this naturally based on years of training and competition. I hope I'm accelerating this by using a PM.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

jspharmd said:


> Gilbert did this naturally based on years of training and competition. I hope I'm accelerating this by using a PM.


Or maybe you're retarding it.

An idea: Put a piece of duck tape over your PM display. Even for workouts where you are supposed to be hitting certain wattages for certain intervals. Use a watch to time your intervals. 

In other words, use the PM for data collection but not to control effort during the ride itself. _Retrospectively_ you will be able to see how closely you were hitting your targets, whether your perceived effort matched actual output, etc etc. Geoff Kabush once tweeted advice to this effect.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

JohnStonebarger said:


> I did. It seems to avoid the whole question of training methodology.
> 
> If the power meter itself really made the difference that would be all we needed. But it's not. As any proponent of pms will say, we need a training plan. It's the training plan, the actual method to our madness, that makes the difference. If the pm motivates us to follow the plan, great. But I seriously doubt that any of our planned workouts couldn't be conducted without a pm.
> 
> ...


The metrics, at least in my case, are derived from over 5 years or training and racing with power as well as tests. Now of course you can't start training with power and have the same amount of data to work from but it does starte to show you things about pacing and steady state riding right off. These are things, at least in my case, that I could not see and act on with either HR or precived effort. Say what you want but while I could follow my existing workouts without power they would not, for me, be as effective or modivating as see the power numbers increase as I progress. 

The PM is a great tool if you know how to use it and much more than a "fancy speedo". You clearly don't believe that which is fine but there is tons of evidence that it is an extemely usefull training tool, tho not nessary.


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