# the Arabesque



## BDB (Jul 8, 2002)

I'm debating ordering one.

I have an Ovalmaster and C60. 

I ride the C60 almost all the time - Ovalmaster basically is a backup bike, in case the c60 is in the shop.

Arabesque is probably really going to end up as an artwork - and not ridden.

tAlk me out of it.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

BDB said:


> tAlk me out of it.


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## Jon D (Apr 11, 2011)

Well I'll talk you out of not riding it, I love riding my Master


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)




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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

Don't bother. If it's not an Arabesque from the correct era, it's just another frame.


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## n2deep (Mar 23, 2014)

What a drop dead gorgeous frame,, I want one,, can we get a deal on a pair?


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## bottecchia_eja (Jul 18, 2010)

BDB said:


> I'm debating ordering one.
> 
> I have an Ovalmaster and C60.
> 
> ...


Get it! I just got a C60 to join the C59. Next year I am planning on ordering an Arabesque. Gorgeous bike! So go for it!!! :thumbsup:


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## BDB (Jul 8, 2002)

Okay. All. Good work. Ordered from Maestro. The baby blue colour


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## BDB (Jul 8, 2002)

Next question - what Build kit should I be looking for.
And it comes with a threadless fork, but Mike can have it threaded for 60 Euro.

Thoughts?


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

BDB said:


> Next question - what Build kit should I be looking for.
> And it comes with a threadless fork, but Mike can have it threaded for 60 Euro.
> 
> Thoughts?


Campag Athena. just accept that shifting to a larger gear is extremely poor compared to chorus/record (you have to click one gear at a time, and pedal a full rev ). but the silver alloy fits the persona of the frame.
saddle? rolls. even if you prefer modern saddles.
stem? if you are going for looks, go threaded. if you want a stem that's better performing, go threadless.


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## BDB (Jul 8, 2002)

That makes the most sense. For sure, and will even keep it at a manageable price, I've always wanted a rolls saddle from when I was a teenager, so will get one of those.

Threadless makes more sense. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BB3YVzwp0Rg/?taken-by=paulcomponent

Might be a little too geometric..


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

BDB said:


> That makes the most sense. For sure, and will even keep it at a manageable price, I've always wanted a rolls saddle from when I was a teenager, so will get one of those.
> 
> Threadless makes more sense.
> 
> ...


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## bottecchia_eja (Jul 18, 2010)

Fignon's Barber said:


> Campag Athena. just accept that shifting to a larger gear is extremely poor compared to chorus/record (you have to click one gear at a time, and pedal a full rev ). but the silver alloy fits the persona of the frame.
> saddle? rolls. even if you prefer modern saddles.
> stem? if you are going for looks, go threaded. if you want a stem that's better performing, go threadless.


I have Campy Athena 11speed on my Bottecchia. Although the shifting is not as precise as Record, it is still very good. Never had problems shifting up or down.


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## ridesmasterx (Aug 3, 2013)

That is going to be an awesome bike. You might consider a treadless stem from Wabi Cycles. When I built my Master I was looking for something that closely matched the tubing diameter so it didn't look out of proportion and theirs fit it perfectly. Super inexpensive and very shiny but not chromed. Blends very nicely with Athena 11.


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## ridesmasterx (Aug 3, 2013)

I too have found the shifting perfectly acceptable. A few rat-a-tats on the thumb lever and I'm where I need to be.


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## Jon D (Apr 11, 2011)

ridesmasterx said:


> I too have found the shifting perfectly acceptable. A few rat-a-tats on the thumb lever and I'm where I need to be.


Ditto, have same groups on my Master


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## BDB (Jul 8, 2002)

I think you guys have sold me on Athena !!


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## Bikephelps (Jan 23, 2012)

Consider Athena with Chorus shifters & rear derailleur. I can't tell that set-up from my all Chorus or all Record. Also, consider the dual pivot rear brake option, stops like Dura Ace.


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## ridesmasterx (Aug 3, 2013)

Bikephelps said:


> Consider Athena with Chorus shifters & rear derailleur. I can't tell that set-up from my all Chorus or all Record. Also, consider the dual pivot rear brake option, stops like Dura Ace.


Brakes are overrated, they just slow you down!


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## ridesmasterx (Aug 3, 2013)

BDB said:


> I think you guys have sold me on Athena !!


You won't regret it, it's fully functional and looks great on a nice steel framed bike. 
Post pictures after you've done the build,........... realizing it will be a while.


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## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

I wanted the silver of Athena, but had to have chorus/record shifting. It is possible to swap out both levers and have silver for visible parts. Took me about 1.5 hours. If I did it again it would probably take me 30 minutes or less.


scroll down to 10th or 12th post https://forums.roadbikereview.com/retro-classic/7-11-eddy-merckx-progress-324667.html


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Bikephelps said:


> Consider Athena with Chorus shifters & rear derailleur. I can't tell that set-up from my all Chorus or all Record. Also, consider the dual pivot rear brake option, stops like Dura Ace.


For the _rear_ brake? What for? Makes absolutely no difference. You stop with the front, not the rear. There's absolutely no point in having dual-pivot in the rear.


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

Pirx said:


> For the _rear_ brake? What for? Makes absolutely no difference. You stop with the front, not the rear. There's absolutely no point in having dual-pivot in the rear.


No, you stop with both. The reasoning behind the single pivot rear, or D-brake as Campag calls it, is that you apply more braking force to the front, and somewhat less to the rear (so the rear doesn't lockup). So they give the rear less braking power for the same amount of force applied to the caliper compared to the front. Campag doesn't think the rider can consciously brake slightly less on their own, hence the D-brake concept. The negative to this, of course, is that you don't have that extra braking power "in your back pocket" in case you really need it. For example, if you're flying down a mountain in a race and at the bottom it's a 90 degree turn (and you can't brake early because it's a race and besides, you don't want to overheat your carbon rims....). I think Campag realizedthe D-brake concept doesn't really make sense, so they switched back to offering both.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Fignon's Barber said:


> No, you stop with both. The reasoning behind the single pivot rear, or D-brake as Campag calls it, is that you apply more braking force to the front, and somewhat less to the rear (so the rear doesn't lockup).


It's not just "somewhat less". You typically only need half the force in the rear that you need in front. At maximum deceleration in normal riding positions, you have essentially no braking in the rear at all, since the rear wheel is about to lift off.



Fignon's Barber said:


> The negative to this, of course, is that you don't have that extra braking power "in your back pocket" in case you really need it.


There is no negative. You _never_, ever, need the "extra braking power". It is impossible to apply the same braking moment to the rear that you can apply to the front once you're braking at more than roughly half of the maximum possible deceleration. 

Campy started offering dual brakes because there's enough people out there who don't understand the physics at all, and simply want those dual-pivots in the rear, even if there's no bloody reason for them. Oh well, there's a sucker born every minute, as they say...


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

Pirx said:


> For the _rear_ brake? What for? Makes absolutely no difference. You stop with the front, not the rear. There's absolutely no point in having dual-pivot in the rear.





Pirx said:


> It's not just "somewhat less". You typically only need half the force in the rear that you need in front. At maximum deceleration in normal riding positions, you have essentially no braking in the rear at all, since the rear wheel is about to lift off.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i'll go with what the engineers at Campagnolo say:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq8-qPfxils


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Fignon's Barber said:


> i'll go with what the engineers at Campagnolo say:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq8-qPfxils


That's marketing, not engineering. Enough said.


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

Pirx said:


> For the _rear_ brake? What for? Makes absolutely no difference. You stop with the front, not the rear. There's absolutely no point in having dual-pivot in the rear.





Pirx said:


> It's not just "somewhat less". You typically only need half the force in the rear that you need in front. At maximum deceleration in normal riding positions, you have essentially no braking in the rear at all, since the rear wheel is about to lift off.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Pirx said:


> That's marketing, not engineering. Enough said.



It's all a conspiracy.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Fignon's Barber said:


> It's all a conspiracy.


Huh? Who said anything about conspiracy? The fact remains that there wasn't even a shred of engineering in this video.

This is simply about giving customers what they want, end of story.

People in this country buy themselves cars with engines that have at least twice as much power as they'll ever use, and that can go a lot faster than they'll ever dare to drive them, but it's what they want, so companies are selling them the cars they want. Same difference.


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## Aadub (May 30, 2015)

Pirx said:


> Huh? Who said anything about conspiracy? The fact remains that there wasn't even a shred of engineering in this video.
> 
> This is simply about giving customers what they want, end of story.
> 
> People in this country buy themselves cars with engines that have at least twice as much power as they'll ever use, and that can go a lot faster than they'll ever dare to drive them, but it's what they want, so companies are selling them the cars they want. Same difference.



You have everything figured out.


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## BDB (Jul 8, 2002)

More Updates coming soon, but I got the call on Friday from Mike at Maestro that the frame was ready! Where I got very lucky was the whole #Brexit thing. Got an even great price break on it!! 

It should ship this week


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## bottecchia_eja (Jul 18, 2010)

BDB said:


> More Updates coming soon, but I got the call on Friday from Mike at Maestro that the frame was ready! Where I got very lucky was the whole #Brexit thing. Got an even great price break on it!!
> 
> It should ship this week


BDB, you need to post pics of your new toy. 

I just ordered a Master Light from Mike. AD11 color scheme.

I cant wait. 

I have an almost complete Record group from when I upgraded my C59 to the new Campy. I still think that Athena looks better on a retro frame, but with almost a complete Record group sitting in the garage I really had no choice.

I will be ordering Ambrosio Excellence wheels, mated to Record hubs, to be built up by Mike.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

BDB said:


> More Updates coming soon, but I got the call on Friday from Mike at Maestro that the frame was ready! Where I got very lucky was the whole #Brexit thing. Got an even great price break on it!!
> 
> It should ship this week


I ordered the blue Arabesque from Mike about two months ago. It came out to around $2800. With the Brexit, yours should be a bit cheaper. I've finally amassed all the parts to build it up. The frame is just drop dead beautiful. 

I have an Eddy Merckx Corsa 01 that I put silver Athena on. It looks great, but the shifting isn't as good as Chorus. The Athena I bought was the first year, so it had ultra-shift instead of the one click, one gear power-shift. The second and subsequent years of Athena are power-shift. The old 11-speed Chorus shifters were compatible with Athena -- I swapped them on my wife's bike. But the new 11-speed stuff may not be. I've read that the new 11-speed Chorus is not compatible with the old 11-speed Chorus. 

After some thought, I decided to buy a Chorus group and go black on it -- black post, stem, bar (all Ritchey) and tape. I plan to ride the thing, and putting a rather low end group on it doesn't make sense. The wheels have silver White Industries hubs, black spokes and HED Belgian rims which are black except for the silver braking surface. I admit, I'm not a big fan of black bikes, but I'm hoping this will make the frame stand out and the components fade into the background like you see in some of the ads. 

Mike was great to deal with. Ask him about Cervelo bikes and you'll get a humorous response. He told me that Giant owns 40% of Colnago and when Ernesto dies, the family will sell it all off and "that'll be it". Which I interpret to mean that Colnagos will just be another cookie cutter Chinese frame like Pinarello. Actually, most of them are already except the C-60, Master and Arabesque. 

Feel good about buying it. It's something that has timeless beauty. It's what bikes are supposed to be. I get comments all the time on my 20 year old Eddy Merckx, or my 16 year old Colnago C-40. Ever looked at a 10 year old Cervelo and thought 'what a beautiful bike'?


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

pmf said:


> He told me that Giant owns 40% of Colnago and when Ernesto dies, the family will sell it all off and "that'll be it".


That is sad. A lot of Ernesto's relatives work for him.


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## bottecchia_eja (Jul 18, 2010)

pmf said:


> I ordered the blue Arabesque from Mike about two months ago. It came out to around $2800. With the Brexit, yours should be a bit cheaper. I've finally amassed all the parts to build it up. The frame is just drop dead beautiful.
> 
> I have an Eddy Merckx Corsa 01 that I put silver Athena on. It looks great, but the shifting isn't as good as Chorus. The Athena I bought was the first year, so it had ultra-shift instead of the one click, one gear power-shift. The second and subsequent years of Athena are power-shift. The old 11-speed Chorus shifters were compatible with Athena -- I swapped them on my wife's bike. But the new 11-speed stuff may not be. I've read that the new 11-speed Chorus is not compatible with the old 11-speed Chorus.
> 
> ...


The Arabesque is a beautiful bike. I think the black Chorus will look fine. As I have mentioned before, I have Athena on my steel Bottecchia, it works well and looks perfect on a vintage frame. But I have enough Record parts to put on my new Master so that's the way I will go.

If indeed all Colnagos will eventually made in Asia then this the best time to "stock up" on your favorite Italian bike brand. 

Both of you need to post lots of pictures to drool over.


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## BDB (Jul 8, 2002)

.









It's so beautiful


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## BDB (Jul 8, 2002)

Mike included a not so pretty black Colnago headset. 

So do I go Chris King? Campy?


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## bottecchia_eja (Jul 18, 2010)

BDB said:


> Mike included a not so pretty black Colnago headset.
> 
> So do I go Chris King? Campy?


Normally I would say Campy. In this case, however, a Chris King h/s in matching or alternating color would look great.

For my upcoming Master PD11 a black h/s will be fine. I am using a Deda Superleggero black stem and black Deda handlebars.

BTW, your bike is stunning.

Congrats!

Ride her safely.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Picked it up this weekend from the LBS. I really over thought the small head tube on this frame. I bought a 17 degree stem and asked the mechanic to put a few extra spacers on it -- because you can't uncut a fork. The bar is so high it's almost even with my saddle. A good 2-3 inches higher than my other bikes. Plus, the stem looks ridiculous. To think I was contemplating a 25 degree stem! So I have a new stem on the way that's the normal 6 degrees. After that, I'm going to ride it for a while and decide about the fork length. It always takes me a few months to get a bike the way I want it. 

The ride? It's got that great steel feel. The fork corners really well, but isn't nearly as harsh feeling as the Star fork on my C-40. I really like the wheels (HED Belgian rims, cxray spokes and White Industries T11 hubs). It's got the "new" Campy Chorus on it, which doesn't function any differently than the "old" 11-speed Chorus I have on a different bike. They've uglified the cranks to resemble Shimano cranks -- why? The post, stem and bar are all Ritchey WCS.


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## Jon D (Apr 11, 2011)

Looks great enjoy


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## bottecchia_eja (Jul 18, 2010)

pmf said:


> They've uglified the cranks to resemble Shimano cranks -- why?


It is a beautiful bike. Enjoy it.

I recently switched the Record group on my C59 from the "old" Campy to the "new" Campy.

Initially, I agreed with you, the new cranks look too "Shimany." Eventually, however, the new look began to grow on me and now I like it very much. Having said that, I just ordered a Master frame from Mike Price. I will be putting the old Record components on that frame because I think that the old style crankset looks better on the retro frames like the Arabesque and Master and, of course, my 1989 Bottecchia.

Incidentally, performance-wise, the new style cranks seem to be stiffer and somehow "quicker." It is also great that now I can switch chain rings without having to swipe the entire Crankset. That is a major plus.

Enjoy your beautiful new bike and ride it safely for many years to come.


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## colnagoG60 (Jun 27, 2013)

pmf said:


> ...I bought a 17 degree stem and asked the mechanic to put a few extra spacers on it -- because you can't uncut a fork. The bar is so high it's almost even with my saddle. A good 2-3 inches higher than my other bikes. Plus, the stem looks ridiculous. To think I was contemplating a 25 degree stem! So I have a new stem on the way that's the normal 6 degrees...


So why is it that you are not contemplating putting the stem "right side up", as opposed to having it "upside down" and saying that "it's so high"?

Would having the 17deg. stem parallel to the ground, like mine, then make it to low?


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

colnagoG60 said:


> So why is it that you are not contemplating putting the stem "right side up", as opposed to having it "upside down" and saying that "it's so high"?
> 
> Would having the 17deg. stem parallel to the ground, like mine, then make it to low?


Is that a 17 degree stem on that bike, or a 6 degree stem? I have 6 degree stems on my other bikes, and they are, as you say, upside down. My preference would be the upside down 6 degree and a few less spacers. I suppose it would be easy enough to try out.


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## colnagoG60 (Jun 27, 2013)

pmf said:


> Is that a 17 degree stem on that bike, or a 6 degree stem? I have 6 degree stems on my other bikes, and they are, as you say, upside down. My preference would be the upside down 6 degree and a few less spacers. I suppose it would be easy enough to try out.


17deg.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

colnagoG60 said:


> 17deg.


Flipped it last night and rode it into work this morning. It's perfect. Thanks for the advice.


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## colnagoG60 (Jun 27, 2013)

pmf said:


> Flipped it last night and rode it into work this morning. It's perfect. Thanks for the advice.


Game on!

Now if I can just decide between the Light Blue Ab, and the "Zabel Blue" Master...


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