# Fatiguing



## Ghost234 (Jun 1, 2010)

I'm identifying some areas in which I want to focus on for the coming season and I've found two areas that I'm not quite sure how to address. They both involve fatigue. I'm a fairly young rider (mid 20's) that came into the sport a few years ago. I'm able to recover very quickly between day-to-day efforts, but its the longer type events that seem to get me. 

I seem to excel really well at short, intense events. I can put down some very impressive numbers during a TT or a crit. But in road races that approach 2-3 hours I start to fade a little. I find that my high end power tends to decline pretty rapidly after 2 hours, but not my sprint. During shorter races I can usually punch out 360-380w over 5 minutes and can do it usually 6-8 times with little rest before it really phases me. However, after about 2 hours (even in Z1), I'm only able to do about 300 for the same exertion level or higher. 

At first I thought it was endurance but I usually do 1 3 hour zone 2 ride a week (during the season, more often during oct/nov) along with a very long 4-5 hour Z1 ride about every 2 weeks and it doesnt seem to do anything. 

The other issue is HR. After a few good efforts my heart rate begins to PLUMMET for a given effort. Usually my heart rate will fall 6-8bpm for the same effort. Additionally I seem to have trouble getting my heart rate beyond the tempo range, and it feels like my LTHR also falls 6-8bpm. I don't know if this is a problem, but I'm a little confused about it, I would have thought that my heart rate would go up for a certain exertion level after a point, but mine does the opposite. 

thoughts?


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## chase196126 (Jan 4, 2008)

My first question would be if you are eating enough carbs during exercise. When I am training I try to aim for about 300-400 Kcal of carbs per hour. It keeps me feeling fresher and greatly reduces the fatigue at the end of a ride. 

If that is not the issue, you could just not be stressing your body hard enough aerobically. I used to have a profile much like yours. I could put down good numbers in training or in a TT, but at the end of a road race my power would be significantly decreased. 

I changed my training a bit this year by both riding a lot longer on my indoor trainer (3-5.5 hours most days) and at a higher average wattage that was still firmly in my endurance zone. Most rides were done with an average between 240 and 260 compared to 210-220 of previous years. Except on very easy days I was never completely soft pedaling. I would cruise along at 240ish when recovering from intervals. 

Wracking up 3800-5000 Kj every day seemed to help my body get considerably more resilient to fatigue in races. My numbers at the beginning of a race would be about average for guys in the field, but by the end of the race I was able to complete efforts at almost the same wattage as when i began the race, when other riders were falling apart. 

I would be careful with this training method though. You have to be extremely careful with fatigue. Dont try to push yourself way above what you are used to right away. Ease into it and let your body adapt so you avoid over training or burnout, and focus intensively on your recovery.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

The first thing I thought of when reading your post is basically the same as chase196126 said...

It sounds like either dehydration (hence the drop in HR) or lack of food intake on the longer rides. Your body stores enough energy for a hard 1 hour event/training ride/etc. but when you go beyond that you have to start re-fueling your body both with food and drink.

What are you doing in this area during your longer rides/races?


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## vetboy (Oct 11, 2005)

chase196126 said:


> *I changed my training a bit this year by both riding a lot longer on my indoor trainer (3-5.5 hours most days*) and at a higher average wattage that was still firmly in my endurance zone. Most rides were done with an average between 240 and 260 compared to 210-220 of previous years. Except on very easy days I was never completely soft pedaling. I would cruise along at 240ish when recovering from intervals.


:shocked: There's times I think it would be cool to get paid to ride my bike - this ain't one of them. Three to five hours/day on a trainer?!? Why don't you move somewhere warm?

Joe


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## Ghost234 (Jun 1, 2010)

Generally speaking when riding indoors I average about 1 large bottle per hour. I don't eat anything unless I plan on riding longer than 2 hours - indoor or out. Usually I plan to eat 1-2 gels/packs/chews/etc. per hour after the first 60-90 mins depending on how much effort has been involved. I don't feel hungry or thirsty with how much I'm eating/drinking unless it is a REALLY hot day. 

I'll take Chase's advice about longer high intensity type efforts. I'll increase my endurance pacing by 10% and duration by about 25%, and increase that when I move outdoors. We'll see how this goes.


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

Ghost234 said:


> I don't feel hungry or thirsty with how much I'm eating/drinking unless it is a REALLY hot day.


When I was a Boy Scout they taught us "Eat before you're hungry. Drink before you're thirsty."

If you wait until you _feel_ hungry/thirsty you're at the point of being in a deficit situation. Eating/drinking sooner helps avoid ever getting into a nutrition/hydration deficit.


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## Cervelo S-5 (Dec 16, 2011)

RJP Diver said:


> When I was a Boy Scout they taught us "Eat before you're hungry. Drink before you're thirsty."
> 
> If you wait until you _feel_ hungry/thirsty you're at the point of being in a deficit situation. Eating/drinking sooner helps avoid ever getting into a nutrition/hydration deficit.


I agree with RJP Diver, set your computer or watch to cmine every 10 -15 minutes and eat something regardless of hunger before long you won't need the watch and will do it naturally. It does not have to be much just enough to keep your fuel cells from diving!
Good luck with the new training programme.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

vetboy said:


> :shocked: There's times I think it would be cool to get paid to ride my bike - this ain't one of them. Three to five hours/day on a trainer?!? Why don't you move somewhere warm?
> 
> Joe


Yeah, and 240 watts for 5 hours is a hard ride for me. Yeesh. :cryin:


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## Johnpembo73 (Jul 28, 2011)

What do you eat on the ride that's gives 400Kcal of carbs per hour. 

Raisins and sultanas?
Small triangle chicken sandwichs?
Jaffa cakes? Etc


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## Cervelo S-5 (Dec 16, 2011)

Hi JohnP73.

Although I have never actually sat down and calculated #'s of calories, I can tell you what I use for food on the bike for longer training rides (3-4 hours). For a morning ride, I will always start with 1/2 cup of steel cut oats and about 4 boiled eggs. Being that I am a relatively big body, I consume much more fluid than most of the folks that I ride with. It is not uncommon for me to carry 4 water bottles at a time for training. Two of them will have a sports drink in them and two with water. I have taken to adding small amounts of whey protien to the sports drinks so that they contain a 4:1 raitio of carbs to protien. I am usually good with this for about two hours and then I need something solid. I use dates, nuts (not on a climb), Cliff shot blocks for electrolytes and carbs if I do not want to carry alot of fluid say on a mountain pass climb, power bars with protien and bananas. The goos are fine I guess although I have never used them personally. What ever you chose, you don't want to have to chew alot while breathing heavy and have the food that is easily washed down with a drink. These have all worked well for me! 

Cheers!


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