# Super Six frame is not as light as expected ???



## dimmy123 (May 26, 2009)

My new Super Six frame (size: 54, white color and red label) and fork have arrived. I got a bit disappointed because their actual weights were found different from what I was told by "[email protected]". 

(received from [email protected])
Uncut Fork: SuperSix Hi-MOD Full Carbon (uncut) => Weight: 340 grams, Uncut Steerer Length: 300 cm
Frame: SuperSix Hi-MOD BB30 (size: 54), white color with red label => Weight : 1000 grams

(weight actually measured by the bike shop)
Uncut Fork: 346 grams
Headset: 149 grams 
Frame: 1180 grams

Do you think that:
a. the Super Six frame (size: 54, carbon) is not light ? My CAAD9-6 frame (i.e., aluminum, white color and red labels) only weighs 1280 grams !
b. the headset is too heavy? The headset of my CAAD9-6 fork weighs only 79 grams.

c. The staff of the bike shop said that Super Six is not aimed to reduce the weight but to improve the performance. He added that the headset for full carbon fork is usually heaver than that for semi-carbon fork (like CAAD9-6) or aluminum fork. The staff also said that the headset could not be replaced because the headset bundled with the Super Six fork is an integrated set. I have little knowledge about the headset. Do you agree with what the staff said.

d. I really don't understand why there is such a significant deviation of the actual weight (1180) from the claimed weight (1000 g) of the frame. Do you get similar experience when buying the frame?

Thank you for your sharing with your advice and experience.

Dimmy


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## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

- When weight is used as a marketing tool, and they are off by 18%, something is not quite right.

- Your headset weighs half of your fork's weight. (I had no idea--- that seems a bit crazy)

- I never believe published weights, nor care much about weight on my bike. It is like a body-image disorder to be obsessed with weight. Are you purchasing the frame for its weight? Or its material? I would much prefer the ride of a carbon frame over the same weight AL bike.

It is quite possible that your options to replace the headset are virtually non-existent. That is the problem with the absence of standards in integrated headsets. The other issue that is likely true that this is not solely a weight issue. Have you ridden the frame?


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## ridenfish39 (Jun 20, 2008)

I would much rather ride a stiff, good handling bike that weighs 18 lbs than a bike with a flexy bottom bracket and headtube that weighs 14 lbs. 
That is why I still ride an 07 System 6. ( weighs around 171/2 lbs in a 60 cm)
Unless you are a pro racer and tenths of a second on an eight mile climb count than weight should not be THE deciding factor with the purchase of a bike. I think people should test ride bikes first and weigh them after. Most would be surprised that they would often prefer the heavier bike.


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## STARNUT (Jun 19, 2005)

the white weighs more and yes, sometimes a 100 grams more. There are a few extra layers of paint on them. Vanity ain't free man....

Starnut


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## 2cans (Aug 25, 2008)

09 or 10 super six


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## Devastator (May 11, 2009)

Question, do you buy a Cannondale for its lightness? I realize thats not quite the reason you posted, but 1/4 lb Im not sure what your riding level is but Im not sure that thats going to kill you. I bought my Cannondale cause it was a good deal and would continue to buy Cannondales for their stiffness, not for the weight.


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## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

180g is about .4lbs, which is not unsubstantial if you are a weight weenie. But in the whole scheme of things, I believe that you are getting a great frame and that extra weight plus the headset weight will not make a difference in the ride or make you any slower.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

While I agree with the concensus, "don't worry about the extra 100 grams or so, you're getting a great bike" -- I know, I own an 09 Super -- for the amount of coin you dropped to have received a material misrepresentation from 'Dale, I would be bummed. I don't know how 'Dale could have come up with a 1 KG weight on the frame. I ride a 52 cm Super frame (I've never weighed the frame) but with campy record, fizik arione saddle and fulcrum racing 1 clinchers and Keo pedals (plus one cage), the weight is about 16.4 pounds. My other bike in an 08 System (again, 52 cm), and same set-up except wheels are Mavic Cosmic Carbone Premiums it weighs 17.5 pounds.

Stiffness ain't light. And I agree with one of the other posters, I'd rather ride a frame that's as stiff as a piece of granite than a flexy 900-gram frame. That's why I favor my System in crits -- ridiculously stiff.


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## katy_hammered (Jun 9, 2009)

*Headset weight has to be wrong*



dimmy123 said:


> Headset: 149 grams
> 
> Dimmy


I agree with everybody else that the weight different is inconsequential, but it matters to you, and Cannondale knows it and made their sale in part based on that fact, so I think that makes it an issue. 

Having said that, you should weigh the headset again because 149g can't be right. The frame comes with two extra headset collars and extra spacers and I wonder if dufus at the bike shop just weighed *everything* in the baggy, spares and all. Check that out. This headset should be slightly heavier than your CAAD9 b/c remember it has a larger lower bearing due to the tapered steerer, but I think the correct spec is something like 96g. 

Also, Cannondale seems to be exaggerating the length of the steerer. I don't think it is 9ft long (300cm) as indicated in your quote from their email


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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

The 149gms is not too far off. Here's what mine weighs. I include the bearings, the bearing cover, the spacers and the top cap, which adjusts the headset. Mine weighs in at 122gms. The bulk of that comes from that stupid adjustment thing. I wish Cannondale goes the Cervelo route, which I might consider since I implemented something similar in my CAAD4 R800.

View attachment 169608


CHL


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## shorelocal (Jan 12, 2007)

Just take a dump before you ride and you'll lose that 180g. In other words, don't stress the weight .... it's fairly inconsequential, unless you're comparing scale shots at the coffee shop with your riding posse.

I just weighed up my white '09 SuperSix and it's as follows:

frame (60cm) - 1136g
fork - 372g
headset (no spacers) - 142g


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## dimmy123 (May 26, 2009)

Thanks all for your info.

I am not a weight weenie but just got disappointed about the reply from Cannodale regarding the pre-sales information. If Cannodale told me the actual weight and use of the oversized headset, I would still go for the Super Six frame. The information open to the customer should reflect the truth. 

My next move is to replace the existing crankset (FSA Carbon Pro Team Issue) with the Hollowgram Si SL (with ceramic BB). Have you used such crankset ? Good ?

Thank you.


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## Devastator (May 11, 2009)

dimmy123 said:


> Thanks all for your info.
> 
> I am not a weight weenie but just got disappointed about the reply from Cannodale regarding the pre-sales information. If Cannodale told me the actual weight and use of the oversized headset, I would still go for the Super Six frame. The information open to the customer should reflect the truth.
> 
> ...


I just got my Hollowgrams yesterday on my Supersix. I love them, feel really solid. I also have ceramic bearings. I cant tell if its the bearings or the fact that its BB30 or if its the Hollowgrams are way better than ultegra, but pedaling is silky smooth on this bike. Bottom line Hollowgrams kick serious ass.


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## kneejerk (Feb 2, 2007)

That 1000 gram frame weight could be something that "they" throw around the water cooler and is likely the weight without paint! ................... I also, wish it wasn't so!


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## wallyh3 (Apr 4, 2006)

*I think he's right*

If Cannondale states 1000 grams for this frame and it's closer to 1200, that's unacceptable. To think otherwise is to enable them further. Try paying them only 88% of their retail. For 2009, that's a heavy carbon frame. And 1 kilo frames can be plenty stiff. My Trek 5900 from 2004 comes to mind. And that was 5 years ago! I'm in the market for a 2010 carbon frame and a SuperSix is on my list. But why should I pay a weight penalty when all the frames I'm considering are made in Asia anyway. Cannondale should either lighten their frames or be honest about their weights.


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## Keeping up with Junior (Feb 27, 2003)

*Accurate*



dimmy123 said:


> ...(weight actually measured by the bike shop)
> ...Frame: 1180 grams...


I would wonder when the last time (if ever) the bike shop had their scale calibrated. It would not surprise me that the scale in the marketing department at Dale would measure a bit on the light side but the scale at a LBS is probably not the most accurate thing in the world.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

wallyh3 said:


> If Cannondale states 1000 grams for this frame and it's closer to 1200, that's unacceptable. To think otherwise is to enable them further. Try paying them only 88% of their retail. For 2009, that's a heavy carbon frame. And 1 kilo frames can be plenty stiff. My Trek 5900 from 2004 comes to mind. And that was 5 years ago! I'm in the market for a 2010 carbon frame and a SuperSix is on my list. But why should I pay a weight penalty when all the frames I'm considering are made in Asia anyway. Cannondale should either lighten their frames or be honest about their weights.


Cannondale don't post weights on their website and even urge you to go to the store to weigh one if that's your thing. Cannondale's problem IMO is that some people replying to emails for their customer's service are not always the most knowledgable.

For what it's worth, I think the SuperSix has a lot to offer, people look at weight and obsess about it but, ride one and you'll notice, or I should say wont notice any overweight, it's ride, stiffness, geometry and behaviour on the road makes the bike disappear when you ride it, attack uphill, sprint, sit or out of the saddle, I think a few grams is a very small detail in the grand scheme of things and I would not consider the SuperSix's weight a penalty. That's the 2009 US made SuperSix, the 2010 frames are lighter.


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## Bob Ross (Apr 18, 2006)

ridenfish39 said:


> I think people should test ride bikes first and weigh them after. Most would be surprised that they would often prefer the heavier bike.


+1

I've been riding a Synapse Carbon 2 since 2006, and I finally weighed it for the first time this past Saturday.

I love the bike, it rides smooth, fast, goes where you point it, and when I pick it up it feels light as hell.

Turns out it's 18.8lbs! (That includes pedals, pump, & computer.)


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## Midwest Playa (Sep 12, 2008)

Sup Fellas 

I am about to jump on this deal $1650 for an 09 Super 6 HI Mod team 1 in white with the seatpost stem and hollowgram crank BB30 sl si.

Is this a Deal?? I am clueless with this bike I have been wanting to upgrade to a new bike I currently have an 06 S works Tarmac Gerolsteiner.

Can I get an input regarding benifits of getting this frame?

I also read Starnutsr comments regarding the ceramic bearings, the seller said he has no problems with the ceramic bearings.

I would greatly appreciate any feedback form current owners. I am not a racer but loves to go fast when doing my centuries. and is theis frame comfortable and is it as aggerssive as my tarmac as far as stance.?

I have till Friday to wrap up the deal

Thanks in advance

Midwest Playa


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## asad137 (Jul 29, 2009)

Midwest Playa -- you might want to start your own thread rather than hijacking someone else's. You'll probably get a better response that way too.

Asad


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## 123prs (Jun 19, 2007)

Assuming everything is in excellent condition, that is a pretty good deal.


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## Midwest Playa (Sep 12, 2008)

Sup Asad

I am not out to hijack anyones thread no benifit for me, I just want information on a Frame that I am about to buy that have no clue until yesterday, I dont want to go into details how the deal came about I dont think its important.

I just need to gather as much information before I seal the deal this Friday. Anyones input is much appreciated, I would do the same for anyone asking about an 06 Sworks Tarmac which I happen to own one. 

Thanks in Advance and I meant no harm to anyone its not my style

Its how I roll

Midwest Playa


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## Midwest Playa (Sep 12, 2008)

ISup 123 

I appreciate the info I still need to get input on current owners of this frame. I also want to know if anyone can confirm this? I was told Cannondale is supposed to have a lifetime warranty on this frame. Since its being sold to me can anyone tell me if the warranty applies???

Thanks Again

Its how I Roll
Midwest Playa


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## 123prs (Jun 19, 2007)

The frame is great and the crank is one of the best and lightest available. The manufacturer's warranty does not extend to subsequent purchasers, only the original buyer with proof of purchase (sale receipt).


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