# Changes to the TOUR...



## pr0230 (Jun 4, 2004)

While reading the VELO TDF edition this year, one of the articles was telling of the extent they go thru to change the tour to keep it exciting and different. This year there are Three time trial , the prolog and 2 TT's.... very exciting... Custom made for Cadel, but I digress.

I would like to see the mountain stages be the FINAL stages of the tour with the Last mountain stage be a summit finish. One flat stage before Paris.... What would this accomplish. Well its different and we would not have a strong TT guy KNOW how much time he has to make up. 

What would YOU change?

Additional THoughts: I would like the TTT to be a part of the tour, BUT, would only increase POINTS for the team. All individual times would remain static. This would be a TEAM stage with a generous amount of team points to make it attractive. 

ALSO, I would like the Women's tour to start 5 minutes behind the Mens on each stage.
5 minutes because the women "Could" catch the men, and that would be embarrassing. Also for the sprinters (men) , if they dropped the peliton, they Might have to ride with the girls, where they belong. ( I know this will start some Bleep) LOL.


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## wblas3271 (May 12, 2012)

National teams.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

pr0230 said:


> What would YOU change?


I would eliminate race radios and make it a smaller field, teams of 6 riders, giving room for a few more teams.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

Different styles different years. I like it that this is a TT-heavy route this year but next year should be more climbing heavy. I don't think there is an "ideal" tour route; it just shouldn't be the same thing every year.


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## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

Bring back time bonuses. Makes the GC guys fight it out to the line in every stage. Not just lollygag in with the group. It also encourages more attacks.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Time bonuses as mentioned. Also the TTT the wasy it used to be. If your team lost three minutes, so did you. That sort of went away when USPS was killing the teams of their competition. Organizers realized Euskatel would never win the tour unless they mitigated the losses teams suffer in the TTT. Funny how they didn't care when 7-11 got crushed in their first TdF. They almost joked about it.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

They should forbid riders from unzipping their jerseys.

I agree with above, time bonuses and no radios. Let the savvy and clever riders read the race and lets watch the thick ones flail and fail.


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## AdamM (Jul 9, 2008)

> make it a smaller field, teams of 6 riders,


+ 1

Agreed, allowing each team fewer riders would be the single best change the organizers could make. Less tempo riding, more attacks. 

Also like the idea of going back to time bonuses.


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## El Scorcho (Dec 14, 2005)

+ a gazillion on no race radios. Make the boys have to pay attention to whats going on around them instead of relying on a guy in a car telling them what to do.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

Glad there are no time bonuses in the Tour. 

First person between a and b wins.


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

No race radios, minimum weight limit of 20lbs per bike, no carbon anything, change your own flats, make your own repairs, no fancy gels or drinks, just water(beer) and panini, no helmets for final climb - or none at all, no TV coverage, wool jerseys, stupid hard routes and no drug testing! Or they could just keep moving forward, keep the route varied, and embrace the technologies of the day: bike mounted cameras, instant rider data, and so on. Going forward is better than going backwards IMO.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

coop said:


> No race radios, minimum weight limit of 20lbs per bike, no carbon anything, change your own flats, make your own repairs, no fancy gels or drinks, just water(beer) and panini, no helmets for final climb - or none at all, no TV coverage, wool jerseys, stupid hard routes and no drug testing! Or they could just keep moving forward, keep the route varied, and embrace the technologies of the day: bike mounted cameras, instant rider data, and so on. Going forward is better than going backwards IMO.


from a spectator perspective, radios make the races very dull.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Bring back time bonuses. Put some kind of camera on some of the bikes (remember when CSC had HRM data on some riders and occasional GPS tracking?) Bring back the combo jersey (or introduce a new color to mitigate the hideous 4 panel amalgamation.) Add one circuit race stage for the spectators.


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## wibly wobly (Apr 23, 2009)

Smaller teams for sure. I'd like to see that. 

Hell, they could make the thing a real circus by making one stage short and have them all ride Penny-farthings. The next day it could be a cross country mtb race through dirt roads. A point to point cross race, Swiss style through the Pyrenees. Then have them all ride track bikes (no brakes) on some cobbles etc etc etc. I'm sure there would generate be plenty of drama.


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## skepticman (Dec 25, 2005)

Forfeit all jersey points when missing a stage time cutoff. Maybe even permanent disqualification from all jersey competition for the rest of the race for missing multiple times or a large time gap. Yeah, I'm looking at you, Mark "Hills-are-my-Kryptonite" Cavendish.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

T K said:


> Bring back time bonuses. Makes the GC guys fight it out to the line in every stage. Not just lollygag in with the group. It also encourages more attacks.


More interestingly, time bonuses make it possible for the sprinters to go for the jersey early on. This gives incentive to the non-gc teams to contribute to the stage finishes and adds interest to the 1st week.




foto said:


> from a spectator perspective, radios make the races very dull.


Why? It wouldn't change much. Fewer breaks would be allowed to go (probably would be pre-arranged) and the chase would start sooner on the ones that were. For the GC battles, nothing would change at all. They know the course and where each other are.

There have been a ton of races without radios in the past 2 years and we can't tell which ones they are from our living rooms.

Change? Make sure the route is mixed acorss all 3 weeks. Not saying there should be HC's every week but 4-5+ flat stages in a row is a snooze fest and dangerous to the GC contenders.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

davidka said:


> More interestingly, time bonuses make it possible for the sprinters to go for the jersey early on. This gives incentive to the non-gc teams to contribute to the stage finishes and adds interest to the 1st week.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It would be pre=arrainged? By who? Which teams would decide, and who would actually honor the arraignment? Which teams would chase, and which teams would counter attack? If the chase starts earlier and the catch is made earlier, how is that _not_ more exciting for a spectator?


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

pr0230 said:


> While reading the VELO TDF edition this year, one of the articles was telling of the extent they go thru to change the tour to keep it exciting and different. This year there are Three time trial , the prolog and 2 TT's.... very exciting... Custom made for Cadel, but I digress.


Custom Made for Cadel?? There's this nobody in this years TDF named Brad Wiggans, word is that he rides a decent time trial.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I'd LOVE to see the return of time bonuses. There is absolutely no downside to it. Sprinters fight for the yellow jersey the first week and minimal gifting of stage wins in the mountains.


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## tazzmacd (Feb 24, 2012)

Time bonuses for sure. maybe not on every stage but maybe on key stages. A Circular stage where they do multiple laps on the same route would be really cool. Makes it very interesting for the fans. Maybe not so much for the riders. TTT Return alone with the ITT


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

tazzmacd said:


> A Circular stage where they do multiple laps on the same route would be really cool.


They have this already. Paris is a circuit race. They do six or seven laps once they enter the Champs Elyses


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## AlphaDogCycling (Sep 18, 2011)

Instead of getting rid of race radios, open them up to fans like motor racing has done. Plus require one member of each team to mount a go-pro HD camera + transmitter so that fans can see what it's like to actually ride in the race. Again like motorsport has done with in-car cameras.

We shouldn't be going backwards, but moving forward and using technology to bring in fans and expand the market for viewership, and hence fans.


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## wibly wobly (Apr 23, 2009)

Cameras on the bikes would be great if they could make it work. They've been dodging the weight limit for a while now so, it might be possible for them to mount weak transmitters that the motorbikes could pick up and relay to the chopah.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

The problem with time bonuses is that they favor a very specific kind of rider. I like seeing routes change and different riders having to figure out different ways to get to the finish in the fastest time. I enjoy the strategy and don't need to see rules changed just to force attacks. I also like for it to be very clear who won a race and without time bonuses there is no debate. Yes, the rules are the rules but I find it confusing when a person wins a race but someone else is faster in real time. Perhaps the points competition in this past Giro, which allowed GC contenders to compete with the sprinters gives good incentive for attacks at the end of the stage while still allowing the strongest person to win.


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## Ridin'Sorra (Sep 7, 2004)

Spikes in the wheels a la Ben Hur...


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## Lazy Spinner (Aug 30, 2009)

Create courses on a rotating schedule:

Year 1 - Traditional (Wk.1 - flats and rollers / Wk. 2-Pyrennees / Wk. 3 - Alps)
Year 2 - TT/Roleur (Wk. 1 - Alps and TTT / Wk. 2 - Pyennees and Long ITT / Wk. 3 - rollers,flats, and ITT)
Year 3 - Climbers (Wk. 1 - Pyrennees and short ITT / Wk. 2 - rollers and flats / Wk. 3- Alps and ITT on Alpe d'Huez)

Mixing it up would create less repeat winners and keep it fresh. Plus, I'd like to see riders like Gilbert, Cancellara, and Phinney get a shot at glory with the proposed TT/Roleur focused course. TdF has become somewhat boring over the past decade or so as the best climbers just mark each other and wait until the final week to put it away. The Giro, in my opinion, has become the better race because they've been keen to tinker with the formula.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*more days*

on cobbles and crosswinds
I'd like to see a rouler with some climbing ability actually have a shot @ winning
typically you have to be a TTer who can climb or a climber who can TT I'd like to see some flahutes have a shot at it by leaving the lightweights 30 minutes behind on the stones


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

foto said:


> It would be pre=arrainged? By who? Which teams would decide, and who would actually honor the arraignment? Which teams would chase, and which teams would counter attack? If the chase starts earlier and the catch is made earlier, how is that _not_ more exciting for a spectator?


This is how it's been done in the earlier days. Mario Cipollini was known to tell riders where on the route they were "allowed" to attack. There is a hierarchy in the group. Breaks don't ever go on their own merit, they are allowed. Chasing/catching earlier would be boring for fans because it would be a foregone conclusion that the break would fail. Not that it isn't now but once in a while they make it. That would be over.




atpjunkie said:


> on cobbles and crosswinds
> I'd like to see a rouler with some climbing ability actually have a shot @ winning
> typically you have to be a TTer who can climb or a climber who can TT I'd like to see some flahutes have a shot at it by leaving the lightweights 30 minutes behind on the stones


Crosswind for sure. Cobbles have been interesting but when favorites (who NEVER ride in that condition) get knocked out of the race over it I think it's too much. The stones don't produce huge gaps for those lucky enough to get through. Contador did very well on them for instance.. For a roleur to win most of the high mountains would have to be taken out. They lose lots of time in the big stuff over consecutive days. It'd be neat for us to watch but I bet the bigger fan bases in Europe would have a conniption-fit.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

substitutions.


seriously now, i like the ttt where you lose all the time the team loses and i like time bonuses. but at the same time these seem to punish riders with teams that are not as strong. 

i like the fact they change things now and again. keeps it fresh. but sometimes it looks like they are changing the format for certain riders.


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## CheapTrek (Dec 23, 2011)

wibly wobly said:


> Smaller teams for sure. I'd like to see that.
> 
> Hell, they could make the thing a real circus by making one stage short and have them all ride Penny-farthings. The next day it could be a cross country mtb race through dirt roads. A point to point cross race, Swiss style through the Pyrenees. Then have them all ride track bikes (no brakes) on some cobbles etc etc etc. I'm sure there would generate be plenty of drama.


Agreed! We also need to add:

1. A unicycling stage. 
2. A doping stage ( don't care if you're clean or not, everyone has to take some kind of performance enhancing drug).
3. A weighted stage (for fat guys like me) where everyone has weights added to rival the heaviest rider (this would be best in a mountain stage).
4. A "Bob Roll" stage, wherein all the riders who have been in those damn Road ID commercials and refused to ride with him are FORCED to ride with him so we can be done with it. 
5. A beer stage. Beer is the only fluid that is allowed. 

Just my 2 cents. 

Cheers.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

davidka said:


> This is how it's been done in the earlier days. Mario Cipollini was known to tell riders where on the route they were "allowed" to attack. There is a hierarchy in the group. Breaks don't ever go on their own merit, they are allowed. Chasing/catching earlier would be boring for fans because it would be a foregone conclusion that the break would fail. Not that it isn't now but once in a while they make it. That would be over.


Interesting. I would guess breaks would be more likely to succeed...which teams would burn up riders to catch a break with 50k to go?


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

Creakyknees said:


> I would eliminate race radios.


Must.....resist....

How would anyone know what to do?


Resistance really is fuile.


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## MattSoutherden (Jun 24, 2009)

davidka said:


> Why? It wouldn't change much. Fewer breaks would be allowed to go...and the chase would start sooner on the ones that were.


^ This.

Also, while I quite like the Tour and Giro organisers mixing things up a little from time to time (the Strade Bianchi stage at the giro a couple of gears ago is a prime example of where it was a great success), the Tour is the Tour. Let's not go too far with changing the make up of the parcours. We already get to find out the best cobble rider at Roubaix, the best 'berg rider at Flanders, the best puncheur at Fleche Wallone.

It's the riders that make the race, it's not a circus. We saw a couple of years ago when Faboo called time on the stage due to Frandy crashing, you can't necessarily make the race interesting by making the stages sketchy.

Vive Le Tour.


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

Race radios have their purpose (safety).

I vote for no time splits. No chalkboard.


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## tazzmacd (Feb 24, 2012)

spookyload said:


> They have this already. Paris is a circuit race. They do six or seven laps once they enter the Champs Elyses


Well don't I feel foolish!!! How could I forget that.......:blush2:


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

GoPro or Contour (w/GPS) would go nuts if their images were incorporated in the broadcasts. 

In fact, one of those companies should sponsor a team.


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## bike981 (Sep 14, 2010)

I'd like individual time trials to be eliminated. Maybe if I raced myself I'd find them interesting, but I don't race and I find the ITT incredibly dull to watch on TV.


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## crosser (Feb 7, 2008)

I say conduct the final stage on Vélibs.


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## MattSoutherden (Jun 24, 2009)

:idea:

So, it looks like the Tour needs to become a hilly crit, with a 25% climb, cobbled descent (with a sprinkler on a hairpin corner), time bonus primes on every lap, and a section along the sea front to the rouleurs.


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## Ridin'Sorra (Sep 7, 2004)

MattSoutherden said:


> :idea:
> 
> So, it looks like the Tour needs to become a hilly crit, with a 25% climb, cobbled descent (with a sprinkler on a hairpin corner), time bonus primes on every lap, and a section along the sea front to the rouleurs.


Add badmouthing and bumping your competitors and cheating... oh, wait!


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## davidof (May 9, 2012)

crosser said:


> I say conduct the final stage on Vélibs.


not only that riders would have to get the Vélib computer to accept their credit card, find a serviceable Vélib in one of the racks and then at the finish, find a bike rack with free space in it!


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## vismitananda (Jan 16, 2011)

Just simple, ride steel bikes.
Eliminate those fancy carbon. Real men ride steel bikes, like in the old days.


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## L7ColWinters (Mar 25, 2012)

+1 no radios!


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