# Podium 2 or 3



## rcwso (Jun 8, 2012)

Background: I have never been on a road bike other than to go up and down the street. I have been running for the past few years. Looking to start riding and try a few triathlons in the near future. I have ZERO gear, shoes, helmet etc. 

I see that several people have recently purchased the Diamondback Podium 2 2011 that has been on sale for $599. I have a few questions about the 2 vs the 3. I have a discount that would allow me to purchase a 2012 Podium 2 for $650 or a 2012 Podium 3 for $757. It is a one time deal through my work. 

1. The Podium 2 has the Tiagra components and the Podium 3 has the 105 components. Would it be worth spending the extra $150 dollars on the Podium 3 to get the 105 components and 10 speed vs the 9 speed? Would it even matter to me in the long run? Would I even be able to tell the difference?

2. Are there any other "upgraded" or "extras" that the Podium 3 would be a better deal to spend the extra $150? 
Podium 2 Rims: 28h frt / 28h rear Equation R17 
Podium 3 Rims: Shimano R-500 
Podium 2 Crank: FSA VERO Compact 50,34t 
Podium 3 Crank: FSA Gossamer Compact BB30 50,34t 
Podium 2 Bottom Bracket: Sealed Cartridge
Podium3 Bottom Bracket: BB30
Podium 2 Headset: Semi Sealed 1-1/8
Podium 3 Headset: Integrated "Cane Creek" Size Drop-in ACB 1 1/8"

3. I have no gear. I will need shoes, pedals, helmet etc. As well as possibly some clip on aero bars. Thoughts with regards to my above questions?

Realize, I do not even know what the difference between some of these parts are or mean. Would I be better off saving the $150 or so dollars and spend it on something else? 

Any help is much appreciated. Thanks.


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## Damon777 (Jun 23, 2011)

Personally, I would upgrade to the 105 components, although there are many people who are served well by the Tiagra line. Make sure that the bike fits well. I have ridden ill-fitting bikes, and having one that fits makes all of the difference. Outside of that, I will defer to the experts on the specifics on this bike.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Before you even get into which Podium, you need to ask yourself if you want a massed start road bike, which you'll probably modify to time trial a little better, or a time trial bike. I haven't set up a time trial bike, so I don't want to be the blind leading the blind and you should take my understanding with a grain of salt.  I believe that TT bikes tend to have steeper head and seat tubes, a shorter top tube by size, and often a shorter head tube. What this means to you is that you may not ever be able to get a really competitive time trial position on a bike that fits you correctly as a road bike.

Personally, I think you're on the right track with going for a road bike first, and accepting a little bit of a compromise for triathlon. Time trial bikes are supposed to be a lot less fun, some groups frown on people bringing them to rides, and you could never race it in a massed start road race if your interests went that way. The clip-on aero bars and some fit changes should be able to get you most of the way to the efficiency of a real TT bike on a road bike, assuming it fits you right to begin with.

Fit is huge, although I also get buying within sponsorships or other deals. Much of the gear I buy now is "on brand" in one way or another. Can you ride some bikes and figure out your size? Buying based on a height/size chart is a crapshoot.

On to the specific questions.

1) I don't know the newest 105 group. In general, going from Tiagra to 105 to Ultegra means shorter throws and less lever effort at the shifters. They also sometimes have different shapes, which effects the comfort of riding on the hoods. Some other elements of the group may be lighter, last longer, and sometimes there are bigger design changes. A major improvement from group to group is in the design of the crank, but Diamondback isn't giving you the Shimano crank. Which is too bad. Or the hubs. Also too bad.

2) Really a bunch of questions here. I'm a bit of a Shimano fanboy, so I'd take their system wheels, which use conventional spokes and you could reuse later, over rebranded rims and nameless alloy hubs. Even though in general, I think 32 spokes is better than fewer for wheels used for training. It's hard for me to call it on the cranks. I don't like FSA's two-piece cranks very much, but maybe they figured it out for BB30, and I think BB30 is a better system, and will be taking more and more market share. I have an old enough bike to also not be worried about you being stranded with an obsolete system if you take the Podium 2 - you can still find parts to maintain things that stopped being common twenty years ago. The difference in headset is something that isn't a big deal until it is. A lot of road riders can ride with a very basic stock headset for years and never have a problem. They're also not terribly expensive to replace if you don't want them to be.

3) Don't buy your shoes online. Get them in a store. Helmet too, actually. I don't know much at all about aero bars. Expect the shoes to cost over $100. Pedals can come in under, depending on the system you choose. Same with the helmet. You need to give some thought to how serious about triathlon you are for the shoes and pedals - tri shoes are specifically designed to help you get through your transition faster, but the vast majority of your riding will be in training, not competition. Road shoes are designed to work well for riding. MTB shoes give up a little to road shoes in terms of performance, mostly air drag, MTB pedal systems sometimes give up features you might care about, and they're a lot easier to walk in. All three classes will give you good power transfer and on-bike comfort if you don't cheap out.


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## rcwso (Jun 8, 2012)

Good info. Thanks.

Follow up: 
Is the $150 in savings for the Podium 2 vs the 3 worth the savings? Or is spending the $150 worth it overall with regards to price, upgraded or not, longevity?


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I didn't see the Podium 3 advertised with those wheels. But, if it has them, you take care of them, and you don't get upgradeitis, they'll last you many years. Wheels cost more than $150 for a set, so there's your lower COO over time. You'll probably also get better wear life out of the rear derailleur.

It depends a lot on how long you keep possessions, and how you treat them. I actually just got back from my first organized century. I bought my bike as a last-year's back in 2000. I still have the original hubs and spokes, although I've worn out a set of rims, and I still have a few original drivetrain bits. If you're hoping for a life cycle like that, spend the extra now. If you'll just be buying another bike in 2 or 3 years, it shouldn't matter one way or the other.


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## rcwso (Jun 8, 2012)

Great info about keeping my stuff for as long as possible. Yes, I do upgrade things at times but I keep my things as long as possible. I am not one that needs the newest gadget every time something comes out. 

I also think the $150 extra now is worth it over the next few years. We will see what I can work with the better half in getting me a bike.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Before you spend money, it's worth belaboring that the most important aspect of a new bike you buy is that it fit you well. Or rather, that the frame geometry be a good enough match for you that you don't have to fight it to make it fit. If you start having to use weird stems to get the contact points in the right places, you often end up with something that handles badly, and you still may not be able to get things quite right.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

AndrwSwitch said:


> *Before you spend money, it's worth belaboring that the most important aspect of a new bike you buy is that it fit you well. Or rather, that the frame geometry be a good enough match for you that you don't have to fight it to make it fit.* If you start having to use weird stems to get the contact points in the right places, you often end up with something that handles badly, and you still may not be able to get things quite right.


Begin at the beginning, and this is it. Groups, wheelsets/ hubs, BB's et al aren't gong to matter if the bike doesn't suite our intended purposes and fit our anatomies - and that 'great deal' probably won't see much use.

Since this is your first bike, my advice is to not fixate on specs/ brands/ models and start shopping for shops along with bikes. You'll get the needed sizing/ fit advice, the ability to test ride a few bikes to determine preferences, along with post purchase services like tune ups, tweaks to fit and discounts on accessories, among others.

The above assumes you have no DB dealers in your area and you'd (essentially) be buying online. If that's the case and you decide to stick with that plan, I suggest visiting an LBS you'll be dealing with post purchase (because you _will_ be dealing with them), be upfront about your decision to purchase online and opt for a standard fitting. It might eat into your budget $50 or so, but it'll also better your odds of getting sizing right. If you don't, it'll cost you as much in shipping costs to return the bike.

All that said, JMO, but I think I'd lean towards the Podium 2 and save the $150. I say this because 1) I'm not a fan of BB30 and 2) I wouldn't hinge a bike purchase on marginally better wheels that you're apt to swap out a couple of years into the bikes life cycle. Lending credence to this, is your posting that you tend to keep things, but do upgrade. And given that most upgrade wheelsets 'in due time', I think this would make sense for you.

What you 'lose' going this route is 1 rear cog, a slight weight gain and a slightly lower level finish on the groupsets. I suspect since the framesets are the same, the headsets are as well (just different wording in the specs). That's just a guess, but either way it's not a deal breaker. 

Bottom line, 'arguing' differences in specs is pretty minor. Getting sizing/ fit right is not, so IMO that should be where you focus your attention.


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## rcwso (Jun 8, 2012)

PJ,
Great post and info. I agree with your points. I do have a shop in town that sells the Diamondback bikes. I am going to attempt to get by there this week to look. 

Just to clarify in my mind a couple of points to consider:

1. The rims on the Podium 3 are NOT that much better than the Podium 2.
2. The Tiagra components are just fine and will work well. Especially for someone that has never ridden a road bike before. I won't be able to tell the difference between the 105 and the Tiagra.
3. The other parts that are different between the two won't be that big a deal or upgrade from the 2 to the 3 and therefore not worth the extra $150.

I also wanted to add that I intend to ride with friends etc but also intend to ride some triathlons with this bike. Add a clip on aero bar when needed. Would this make any difference in the two bikes?


I see on the JensonUSA site the deal they are offering is the 2011 Podium 2. In the description it has listed "Shimano 505 clip less pedals." Does it truly come with pedals even though all the pictures show no pedals? I know I can call but just wondering if someone knows. If it does actually come with pedals, is that a buying point to save me a few bucks over another bike that does not? Or would I want to replace those right away?

Is there any reason to go with a 2012 Podium 2 vs a 2011 Podium 2? I have compared the two and don't see any major changes in components etc. The 2012 does come with a 10 speed vs 9 speed in 2011. If the 2011 comes with the above listed pedal and I know the 2012 does NOT come with pedals, is that even something to consider or are those pedals not good enough to worry? 

Thanks again for the great info.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

One of my competition bikes has Tiagra shifters and FD. The rear derailleur is Deore, which is comparable but from a MTB line.

With bicycle wheels, it's possible to choose and mix and match rims, spokes and hubs. So, be very clear - do you mean the whole wheel, or just the rim? For me, aluminum rims are, in general, a wear part. They last a long time, but there are quite a lot that are very comparable, so I don't think too much about them. I'm a little more interested in other parts of the wheel for whether or not it does what I want. Which is a little different from what most people want.

You can tell the difference between Tiagra 4500 and 105. 4600 is supposed to be a lot more like 105, at least 105 5600, maybe not the newest stuff. I don't have saddle time with either. But there's a difference between being able to tell a difference and having it make an actual impact on how efficient or how much fun you have on the bike.

At least give your local guy a shot at matching Jenson if you're going to do it that way. And if you haven't been riding bikes, you'll probably want to have a mechanic build it for you. It's not rocket science, but it takes a little finesse and IMO it's easier to learn to keep a bike running well when you know what that is than to build one without that sort of goal in mind. So consider that cost (and shipping) and see if you're still saving money doing the catalog.

And, you may hop on a Podium and decide you don't even like it.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

rcwso said:


> PJ,
> Great post and info. I agree with your points. I do have a shop in town that sells the Diamondback bikes. I am going to attempt to get by there this week to look.
> 
> Just to clarify in my mind a couple of points to consider:
> ...


In one form or another, many here promote LBS's for their value added services, so I think visiting your DB dealer and giving him a shot at your business will serve both of you well. This, of course, assumes it's a reputable shop.

In that same vein, I think branching out and (essentially) shopping for shops along with shopping for bikes will also serve you well. This being your first bike, it'll give you the opportunity to test ride several different brands/ models as well as discuss your intended uses and cycling goals with the LBS's. 

I'm not trying to steer you away from the Podium's because I think they're nice bikes, but I am trying to steer you towards LBS's and sampling other offerings. You may well go back to the DB's, but at least then you'll know why.

Re: your three points above, #'s 2 and 3 are pretty much right, but when I mentioned wheelsets I meant them in sum - in their entirety. I do think the Shimano's are the better of the two, but (for the reasons I mentioned previously), I wouldn't hinge a bike purchase on them. So between that and the fact that I think BB30 will cause you more trouble than it's worth, I thought the $150 would be better spent elsewhere.

Re: your intended use, my advice is to get the bike that best suites your _primary_ riding objectives. If they're recreational/ fitness riding with an occasional Tri, I recommend a general use road bike, whether it be race (like the Podiums) or relaxed, like a Giant Defy (or similar). That way, the compromises will relate to what you do the _minority_ of the time, with the bikes set up being 'right' for the main uses. 

Re: the Shimano 505 pedals, I feel the same about them as I do basing a purchase on wheelsets. Focus on fit/ feel, ride and handling for now. Pedals can wait - and you won't be stuck with only one choice that may not suite your needs.

Re: the 2012 Podium 2, you don't mention cost, but if the bike is spec'd with Tiagra 4600 10 speed, I view that as a plus. Still, the previous generation 9 speed Tiagra would suite the vast majority of recreational riders needs, so I see the 2011 as a viable option.


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## rcwso (Jun 8, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> In one form or another, many here promote LBS's for their value added services, so I think visiting your DB dealer and giving him a shot at your business will serve both of you well. This, of course, assumes it's a reputable shop.
> 
> In that same vein, I think branching out and (essentially) shopping for shops along with shopping for bikes will also serve you well. This being your first bike, it'll give you the opportunity to test ride several different brands/ models as well as discuss your intended uses and cycling goals with the LBS's.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the clarification. I appreciate you time and effort in answering and the advise to look at others as well. I will get out and see what I can find this next week or two. 

The 2012 lists the gear as a Tiagra 4600 10 speed. All other parts listed simply have Shimano Tiagra. The price I am able to get through a one time work discount is $657 shipped. That is about $30 dollars more than the 2011 from JensonUSA.

I do intend to use it mainly to add to my running training. I run a lot and am looking for a change/addition. I plan on riding for about an hour at a time mainly but up to as much as 3-4 hours at times. I will also continue to run. Some weeks I may ride 2-3 times and others less. This will not be my main source of cardio training but in conjunction with running. I may even ride for 30 minutes and then run for 30 minutes. Possibly even more at times as well.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

rcwso said:


> Thanks for the clarification. I appreciate you time and effort in answering and the advise to look at others as well. I will get out and see what I can find this next week or two.
> 
> The 2012 lists the gear as a Tiagra 4600 10 speed. All other parts listed simply have Shimano Tiagra. The price I am able to get through a one time work discount is $657 shipped. That is about $30 dollars more than the 2011 from JensonUSA.
> 
> I do intend to use it mainly to add to my running training. I run a lot and am looking for a change/addition. I plan on riding for about an hour at a time mainly but up to as much as 3-4 hours at times. I will also continue to run. Some weeks I may ride 2-3 times and others less. This will not be my main source of cardio training but in conjunction with running. I may even ride for 30 minutes and then run for 30 minutes. Possibly even more at times as well.


IMO the 2012 with Tiagra 4600 is definitely worth an extra $30. BTW, wherever the specs list Tiagra 10 speed, it's 4600, so no worries there.

If you're a fit/ flexible individual it's likely you'll have no problem with a race bike, but be prepared to experience a period of acclimation to the road riding position. And yes, by all means go check out some other offerings. It's free and can be fun.


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## rcwso (Jun 8, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> IMO the 2012 with Tiagra 4600 is definitely worth an extra $30. BTW, wherever the specs list Tiagra 10 speed, it's 4600, so no worries there.
> 
> If you're a fit/ flexible individual it's likely you'll have no problem with a race bike, but be prepared to experience a period of acclimation to the road riding position. And yes, by all means go check out some other offerings. It's free and can be fun.


Continuing to learn. Time to start looking more. See what I can find over the next couple of weeks. I will be back with more questions and info throughout the process.

Thanks.


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## rcwso (Jun 8, 2012)

I was able to go look at the DB Podiums in a shop today. It is one of the large sports shops so I was limited on a being able to ride etc. Here are the observations I had from sitting on them and looking etc.

1. The biggest thing I noticed was that the Podium 3 seemed to weigh about 1-2 pounds lighter. Maybe even more. It was enough to notice the weight difference. How much a difference will that make? 
2. Everything else seemed to be identical except the Tiagra vs 105 components. The wheels were different but I could not tell if that made the difference in weight or where that would come from.

So I am still up in the air a bit about the 2 vs 3. To be honest, I liked the look of the 3 better. That is purely cosmetic though. Paint, wheels colors etc. 

Any thoughts? The weight difference?
Thanks.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I don't know what you weigh. I weigh 165 lb right now. My water bottles probably weigh about a pound and a half each when they're full and I put two of them on my frame for a longer ride. I notice a difference in weight when I lift the bike, but not in handling when I'm riding it. Probably most things on the 3 are a little lighter; it adds up. Up to you to decide if you care.

Both component groups will work, and work well. You may get a slightly better service life from the 105 stuff. Since Diamondback hoses you on the crank no matter which bike you choose, effects on shifting performance will be minimal.

For me, I think this would be about whether or not I could feel a difference in the shifting performance. That's tricky too because when shifting doesn't work well, a lot of the time it has to do with crappy cable housings or bad tuning.


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## rcwso (Jun 8, 2012)

I am 155-160 most of the time. That is where I like to be for running and other activities. 

Again, for being totally new at this, I am not sure I will be able to tell the difference at all between the two bikes. I am trying to get one that will last without "wishing" or "regretting" my purchase in a year or two. Or even 2-3 months for that matter.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Lemme put it this way...

Bikes were already functioning pretty well by the late '80s. No more cottered cranks, everyone had agreed on a wheel size, indexed shifting was working and working well. Integrated shifting came out in the early '90s, and while I do like my integrated shifters and wouldn't want to race without them, I de-evolved one of my bikes to indexed downtube shifters recently because I just want that one to work well and not cost me too much money.

The difference between the 2 and 3 has nothing to do with need. It has to do with want. If you want the more expensive one (I can't remember which it is) and you can afford it, buy it.

I spent an amount of money that seemed ridiculous to me at the time on my LeMond, back in 2000. I still ride that bike dozens of times a year. Depending on when you catch me, maybe a couple times a week, or maybe I'm not getting in any rec./training rides on the road, and so it's sitting in my basement. But it's my favorite bike and my go-to road bike even if the disciplines I actually compete in are other things. So $150 more or less, twelve years later, is no big deal. Now if it'd been a $700 difference, I probably would have gone with something cheaper. I did have a figure in mind, and I only ended up stretching it by $25.

If I'm in the financial situation I'm hoping to be in and have decent access to MTB trails when I finish my degree in a little under a year, I'm planning to buy myself a $2100 MTB as a first-paycheck present. For now, I'm competing on something that retailed for $600, although I've ended up having to plow a lot of money back into it (but not enough to hit that $2100 mark.) So again - this is already more bike than you need, so go ahead and be at peace with it being about "want" and get what makes you happy. If you keep it as long as I've kept all of my bikes that I haven't broken, you'll amortize the extra over a pretty long period.


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## rcwso (Jun 8, 2012)

Andrew, Great info and advice. Thanks for your time in responding. I will now sit back and give myself a little time to decide, or not. We will see. I will report back with my decisions when I make them.

In the meantime, any other thoughts or comments are appreciated by all.

Thanks.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

rcwso said:


> *I was able to go look at the DB Podiums in a shop today.* It is one of the large sports shops so I was limited on a being able to ride etc. Here are the observations I had from sitting on them and looking etc.
> 
> 1. The biggest thing I noticed was that* the Podium 3 seemed to weigh about 1-2 pounds lighter. Maybe even more. It was enough to notice the weight difference.* How much a difference will that make?
> 2. Everything else seemed to be identical except the Tiagra vs 105 components. The wheels were different but I could not tell if that made the difference in weight or where that would come from.
> ...


I'm a little confused here. Did you test ride the bikes and weigh them on a bike scale like a Park digital scale (or similar)? If not, and all you did was go look at them, sit on them and lift them, in all honestly (and IMO) none of that is sound criteria for making a decision. You have to be sized/ fitted and ride the bikes - out on the roads. Otherwise, you don't even know if you'll like riding them.

As far as any weight differences, besides the fact that they won't matter in real world terms, lifting bikes and making a judgement call is perception - purely subjective. As long as they're accurate, scales don't lie, everything else is a guess.

The Podiums in question share the same frameset/ geo, so fit, ride and handling will essentially be the same. That leaves the (relatively minor) differences in specs to consider, and test rides might give you some insight to your preferences. Although, demo bikes aren't always set up/ tuned optimally, so shifting performance can vary - something to keep in mind.

Lastly, I still think you should branch out a little, visit some other LBS's and check out their brand/ model offerings. To my knowledge, you haven't ridden any bikes yet, so another reason to take some time to do so. Otherwise, no matter which DB Podium you buy, you're apt to wonder what else was out there.


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## rcwso (Jun 8, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> I'm a little confused here. Did you test ride the bikes and weigh them on a bike scale like a Park digital scale (or similar)? If not, and all you did was go look at them, sit on them and lift them, in all honestly (and IMO) none of that is sound criteria for making a decision. You have to be sized/ fitted and ride the bikes - out on the roads. Otherwise, you don't even know if you'll like riding them.
> 
> As far as any weight differences, besides the fact that they won't matter in real world terms, lifting bikes and making a judgement call is perception - purely subjective. As long as they're accurate, scales don't lie, everything else is a guess.
> 
> ...


PJ,

You are 100% spot on as always. I was not able to ride them because it was from one of the large sports stores that does not allow that. I was able to only sit on them, touch them and lift them. 

I agree with everything you said. I am planning on going to some other stores to look, touch and ride. I have not made a decision 100% at all. 

I will get out there as you suggest and see what I can find. 

Thanks again for the time and advice.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

rcwso said:


> PJ,
> 
> You are 100% spot on as always. I was not able to ride them because it was from one of the large sports stores that does not allow that. I was able to only sit on them, touch them and lift them.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a good plan. When time allows, let us know how you're progressing.


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## rcwso (Jun 8, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> Sounds like a good plan. When time allows, let us know how you're progressing.


So I had a chance to go to a few shops today. Here was my experience:

Shop #1: LBS that had good and bad reviews online. Walked in and the workers were friendly. Had a large selection of bikes. I was helped by one gentleman and I knew more about bicycles than he did. The first thing he told me when I asked him to explain and teach me about an entry level road bike was "you need to change the tubes and put tube liners in all the bikes, that will save you from getting flats." No kidding. He talked for about 3 minutes on how to prevent flats. He didn't know what size bike I should even try. Didn't know about the components very much at all. Would not let me ride a bike. Total waste of my time, unfortunately.

Shop #2: Large retail store that sold many different types. I was told to talk to the "bike guy." The "bike guy" showed up and asked me how he could help me. I explained my background and desires. He immediately pointed me to the two cheapest bikes in his shop. Not that it is a bad idea but then didn't know much about the bikes beyond the price. I asked him what he rode and he proceeded to tell me he didn't even ride. He just worked on bikes. Would not let me ride a bike either. 

Shop #3: Another LBS. I walked in and was immediately greeted and helped. Asked me what I was looking for and I explained my background and interest. The first question was one which I have seen PJ352 post numerous times on the forums, "what are your goals?" that was interesting. I knew I had someone that was on his game. We talked about all kinds of options, positives and negatives etc. He was very good at explaining and teaching. He said the Tiagra of today is as good as the 105 of yesterday. Also that I would probably not know the difference. Then he actually sized me up for a frame with some crotch measuring device and then proceeded to ask me if I wanted to ride a bike. Wow, that was nice. I took a bike out for a few minutes. They only had one built in my size at the time. He said to come back and they could set up some others another time. Great experience overall. 

Here is what I learned from asking questions:
1. Fit is very important, if not most important. Although, most of the bikes are built with almost the same geometry in the entry level range and through seat, bars and pedal adjustments they can be made to fit well. So, fit is important but it sounded like they could make most bikes in todays market fit with the adjustments.

2. Components are important. Really depends on how much you want to spend and how much weight you want to save. In my case, not a huge difference other than it was mentioned that the 105s have a tendency to last longer than the Tiagra over time.

3. I really enjoyed the feel of riding a road bike for those few minutes. I had a grin from ear to ear. Maybe I never should have done that. That is how I end up trying new hobbies like motorcycle desert racing and riding, rock climbing and rappelling, running and many others. Looks like a new hobby in my future. 

A couple of questions:
1. Is it true that with seat, bar and pedal adjustments on most brand bikes that I can get a proper fit?
2. Any truth to 105s lasting longer than Tiagra?

Thanks again for the help.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

rcwso said:


> So I had a chance to go to a few shops today. Here was my experience:
> 
> Shop #1: LBS that had good and bad reviews online. Walked in and the workers were friendly. Had a large selection of bikes. I was helped by one gentleman and I knew more about bicycles than he did. The first thing he told me when I asked him to explain and teach me about an entry level road bike was "you need to change the tubes and put tube liners in all the bikes, that will save you from getting flats." No kidding. He talked for about 3 minutes on how to prevent flats. He didn't know what size bike I should even try. Didn't know about the components very much at all. Would not let me ride a bike. Total waste of my time, unfortunately.
> 
> ...


This is a great post. Seriously, it is. By conveying your firsthand experiences you're telling folks here how easy it is to 'know' a good shop when they find it. All it takes is asking the right questions and getting a sense for how motivated the employees are to help and how knowledgeable the staff is. 

That said, I won't go so far as to say I disagree with some of what shop #3 offered, but I would say the devil's in the details. 

First off, while it's true that once a rider is sized correctly to a bike, the resultant fit will be acceptable, the geo of that particular bike may not result in an _optimal _fit. 

For example, if I like a more upright riding position and I've been sized correctly to two bikes, one having a head tube length of 110mm and the other 140mm, all else being equal, it's a good bet that the stem angle/ spacer set up on the second bike 'out of the box' will require only a slight modification, while the bike with the 110mm HT length will require maxed out spacers and (probably) a + angled stem. 

Staying with the same brand/ model, an alternative would be to 'size up' on the bike with the 110mm HT length. In doing so, we get a taller HT, thus setting the stage for a more moderate stem/ spacer set up, but we've also extended reach, which would require a shorter stem. 

Whether this is enough to disrupt f/r weight distribution (thus, adversely affecting handling) is an open question and depends on just how short the stem was, but both scenarios demonstrate that while certain brands/ models can be adjusted to fit, or _made to fit_, the _best_ choices are the brands/ models that require tweaks (small adjustments to fit) out of the box. Those bikes best suite a given riders anatomy, fitness/ flexibility, personal preferences, and riding style.

Re: the longevity of 105 versus Tiagra, that's anyone's guess. I don't think that just because a groupset is a notch higher in Shimano's product line necessarily means it'll last longer (or is discernably better). Also, both groups are new, so the question on longevity will be better known with the coming years. 

But all things considered along with the variables that can dictate longevity, I wouldn't purchase based solely on a bike having 105. All indications are the new Tiagra 4600 has the potential to be one of Shimano's best value/ performance groups.


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## rcwso (Jun 8, 2012)

After a month or so of research, looking, riding, and more searching I am picking myself up a used 2011 Podium 3. I found one that has only been ridden a few times, about 45-50 miles total. It comes with a couple of water bottle cages, seat kit with extra tube, C02 cartridge and pump and pedals. The pedals are Time ATAC mountain bike pedals. The guy who had it used the same cleat system for his mountain bike and road bike. I will use those to start since it will save me some money initially. 

I receive the bike this weekend and then will get it fit from a friend who works at a shop. I have a relative bringing it to me.

I have a helmet and that is about it. What would be the suggestions for someone brand new to road riding to get right away? I know I need shoes that will take the Time ATAC Cleat. 

Gloves?
Bib?
Jersey?
Glasses?
Bottles?

Anything I am missing? I look forward to getting on and riding.
Thanks.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

rcwso said:


> I have a helmet and that is about it. What would be the suggestions for someone brand new to road riding to get right away? I know I need shoes that will take the Time ATAC Cleat.
> 
> Gloves?
> Bib?
> ...


Here's my essentials list. You have some items on it and may opt to add or delete others, but it's a start:
Wedge saddle bag - medium (Topeak/ Specialized are two good brands)
Tire levers
Spare tube
Patch kit
Multitool w/ chain breaker
Innovations Ultraflate Plus CO2 inflator
2-3 12-16g unthreaded carts (I get the 12g's by the box at Walmart). Someone recently posted that because the 12g's are shorter than the 16's, a dime fills the gap at the bottom of the holder.


Not essential, but nice to have:
Rag/ paper towels
Latex gloves
A second tube, if it'll fit. And some members have suggested individual packets of waterless soap (Gojo, or similar).

For bottles, I like the CamelBak Podiums (insulated)


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## rcwso (Jun 8, 2012)

So here is my first road bike, 2011 Podium 3. No complaints. New to me but used from someone else. Only about 50 total miles on it. Came with the two water cages, Time ATAC pedals (yes, mtn bike pedals but I will keep them and use them), saddle bag with extra tube, two CO2 cartridges, several types of patches, and a chain tool. the previous owner also changed out the stock seat with a WTB Rocket V seat. I went and found some shoes today that will work at a LBS. I have a helmet, jersey, bib and water bottles. Time to go out and ride. Now I need the weather to drop below 110 degrees in the middle of day let alone 90 degrees at 7AM. Maybe a 5AM ride on Monday. I will report back after my first few rides. 

Thanks for all the help and info.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Nice bike! Congrats!!

Don't forget to have your friend follow up with that fitting, and update us on your riding impressions.

Oh, and ride safe! :thumbsup:


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## rcwso (Jun 8, 2012)

First two rides complete. Here are my impressions, lessons learned etc.

Ride #1: 15 miles in just under an hour. Some gradual uphill, flats and some gradual downhill. I did not have my bike bib or jersey this day. First time ever riding with clip in pedals. I had ridden around the neighborhood the day or two prior practicing clipping in and out. I wore my 20 year old mountain bike gloves and my clear work protective glasses. I had just a regular pair of running shorts and a t-shirt. And of course, a helmet. 

Issues: My right foot became sore and numb on the outside of the foot. It was not persistent but would come and go. It wasn't like my shoe was too tight. It felt like a soreness or ache more than anything. 

I was saddle sore a bit as well. Nothing terrible but definitely sore after about 30 minutes. I was sore on the boney parts of my rear. 

The one thing I was most concerned about was that my hands became very numb. Only the first two fingers and my thumb. Very similar to carpal tunnel symptoms. I had to shake my hands out very often after about 25 minutes of riding. Not sure if it was the angle of being on the hoods or the vibration from the road or something else. 

Shifting: I tried to practice shifting between gears and see how I felt with different settings. I struggled to be in a good gear at times. Especially when having to come to a stop or go through a turn. I also struggled with not knowing whether to use the smaller or larger gear on the front sprocket. I would find myself having to make a lot of extra shifts to get a gear I wanted when changing from the small to the large front or visa versa. Suggestions would be great. I felt like I was learning a lot as I went along because I tried different things. 

Other: I learned the lesson of looking over your shoulder and then immediately turning/leaning in that same direction with the bike causing me to move out of the bike lane or my out of my line. Same principle on a motorcycle in many ways. So I practiced looking back without coming out of my lane by riding the white line and trying to stay on it as I looked back over each shoulder. I can see how you could hurt yourself or someone if you do not hold your line/lane. 

Water bottle usage: I practiced several times at different speeds grabbing and trying to drink. I also tried to use each hand. I found that I was better with one than the other and that at higher speeds I became wobbly a little easier. More like small oscillations vs wobbling. I felt like I was safe and able to drink without causing an accident or having to stop. 

Overall: It was a lot of fun. I enjoyed the smooth ride, speed and just doing something besides running, which I have done for the past few years and also enjoy very much. It was awesome. 

Ride #2: I rode with a friend that I ride desert motorcycles with fairly often. He is relatively new to riding as well. We went out for an hour and went 16 miles. This time I had my riding bib and jersey. All else was the same.

Issues: I was saddle sore from riding the day before. Not terrible but felt it a bit from the beginning. I did not notice any pain in my right foot this time around. Felt really good. Was a little sore in some leg muscles that I don't normally feel when running. My hands did get numb again just like the day prior. Kind of annoying but not painful. Hope that subsides over time.

Shifting: I still had the same issues as the first day. I tried to ride at the same cadence as my buddy but found that at times I simply wanted to gear down in order to have a faster cadence at the same speed. That is where I felt comfortable. Then I would be stuck trying to find the right gear as I changed from the front small to large or visa versa.

Overall: I really enjoyed riding with my buddy. I run with a couple of guys at times and I enjoy the conversation and company. It was a lot of fun to just ride next to each other and chat while pushing along. I can see how riding in groups can be very addicting and fun. I enjoyed the ride very much and look forward to more with friends and groups in the future. 

Big picture: Riding was awesome. I really enjoyed the new experience. I never felt uncomfortable or unsafe on the road. I rode in a fairly low traffic area so I did not have to deal with that. I look forward to more rides and learning more as I go along.

Thoughts or ideas would be great. 
Thanks.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

rcwso said:


> First two rides complete. Here are my impressions, lessons learned etc.
> 
> Thoughts or ideas would be great.
> Thanks.


Before responding with my thoughts/ ideas on your rides and fit issues, just one question. You mentioned having your friend fit you. Has that happened yet?


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## Erion929 (Jun 10, 2010)

PJ's the best, but he always leaves out the pros and cons of urinating "under" or "over". I guess he expects us to learn on our own 


Congrats on the bike! :thumbsup:

**


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## rcwso (Jun 8, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> Before responding with my thoughts/ ideas on your rides and fit issues, just one question. You mentioned having your friend fit you. Has that happened yet?


We did a basic fit to be able to go out and ride. We need to get into his shop and be more specific and fine tune. 

Bottom line: yes, we fit the bike with the basic seat height, seat forward and back position and the handle bars up and down. 

That probably is not the answer you would like to hear. We plan on fine tuning everything in a few days.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

rcwso said:


> First two rides complete. Here are my impressions, lessons learned etc.
> 
> Ride #1: 15 miles in just under an hour. Some gradual uphill, flats and some gradual downhill. I did not have my bike bib or jersey this day. First time ever riding with clip in pedals. I had ridden around the neighborhood the day or two prior practicing clipping in and out. I wore my 20 year old mountain bike gloves and my clear work protective glasses. I had just a regular pair of running shorts and a t-shirt. And of course, a helmet.
> 
> ...


Before getting into your 'issues', some general thoughts/ observations on both rides.

While I think averaging in the 15 MPH range is a better than decent effort, during your acclimation (to road riding) phase, I would suggest tempering that effort just a bit and concentrate on form (more on that below).

As to the issues, I think most are either form related or fit and form related - IMO a probability re: the hand pain, but I'd concentrate on form before making any fit adjustments just yet. This goes on the assumption that in setting saddle fore/ aft, your fitter used KOPS (or setback) as at least a starting point. If not, that should be done and would possibly explain the hand pain.

Because you experienced minimal foot discomfort on your second ride, I suspect it's the result of inadequate cadence, so working on upping that along with smoothing the pedal stroke/ anticipating gear changes (to suite road conditions/ terrain) should help.

Here's a recent thread where I offer some suggestions and post a video that (I think) will help you.
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/be...tching-gears-2nd-week-riding-noob-287422.html

Here are some tips on form:
- keep your upper torso relaxed, arms slightly bent
- _change hand position frequently_ (tops, bends, hoods, drops...) - very important.
- keep a slightly loose grip on the bars (avoid the 'death grip')
- keep forearms and hands aligned (don't twist at the wrist)
- consider good quality gel gloves (after 20 years, you need new ones)
- If it's not already installed, recommend good quality bar tape

Get some additional saddle time before tweaking your fit, but it might be a good idea to document issues you notice along the way. Then, when it comes time to make some adjustments, you can better communicate areas of discomfort to the fitter.

I think working on your pedal stroke/ cadence and form will alleviate (or at least minimize) the foot and hand discomfort. As long as the butt discomfort is around the sit bone area, that tells me your weight is supported properly, so as you (and your butt) acclimate, that too will subside. 

Lastly, consider a bike or helmet mirror. They not only keep you aware of approaching vehicles, they also tell you when none are there, and it's safe (or at least an option, when needed) to take a lane. But... look back before doing so.


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## rcwso (Jun 8, 2012)

PJ, Thanks for the taking the time to read and respond to my long posts. Great info as always. I will take those tips and the info from the video and put it to practice over the next while. I look forward to my next ride. Hopefully this weekend. 

I do have a new set of gloves. I was just waiting for them to arrive. I had gone and tried a lot on in stores and found the ones I liked. I was able to purchase online. I will give them a shot this next ride. 

My saddle sore is directly over the bones and not in the muscles or other areas of my butt. 

Bar tape is pretty good. I don't know the difference but that is what my friends have said. It is the stock tape but slightly padded and in good shape. 

I will concentrate on my arm positions and grip to help with the hand numbness. I may have had my arms locked out too much. Next time I will pay more attention to that aspect. 

I will report back with some info and questions after a few more rides. It may be a week or two due to having to go on a work trip without the bike.

Thanks again.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

rcwso said:


> PJ, Thanks for the taking the time to read and respond ...
> 
> I will report back with some info and questions after a few more rides. It may be a week or two due to having to go on a work trip without the bike.
> 
> Thanks again.


Not a problem - hope it helped. 

Yes, I'd be interested in your following up here with updates, but I'm confident you're on the right track.


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## rcwso (Jun 8, 2012)

Update: I was unable to ride during the week due to being out of town for work. I just got back from a 26 miler with a friend of mine. Here are the details:

26 Miles, 16.5 mph average. Started at 2400 feet and climbed as high as 3000 feet. All gradual. Average Cadence--85.

Hands: My hands did get numb a little today. Did not seem to be as bad as the first two rides. I concentrated on not locking my elbows and just being in a comfortable, slightly bent position. I also had my new gloves on. They seemed to help a bit as well. The numbness simply came and went. If I felt it starting I would change my hand position and it seemed to help. I had to shake them out once or twice.

Feet: My left foot felt great all day. No issues. My right was a little sore on the outside like before but it seemed to go away or I just didn't notice it much. I concentrated on trying to move my foot inside my shoe a little at times. It really doesn't move much but trying to put pressure on different spots. Nothing unbearable. I will keep watching that.

Saddle: My rear started to get pretty sore at about 13 miles in. Right on the bones. A little soreness just in front of the bones in the middle area. At the turn around point I got off the bike and stretched for about 2-3 minutes and then got back on. Almost zero soreness on the way back except for a short period at the 22-23 mile point. I am not sure I could have ridden without getting off and stretching the whole time. It wasn't excruciating but it wasn't comfortable either. 

Question: I am not really sure I am actually sitting on the right spot on the seat. I feel comfortable on the bike overall. I just am not sure I put my butt bones on the right spot on the seat. It may require an adjustment but am trying to find out if I am in the right spot or any suggestions. My bones are NOT on the most padded spot on the seat. They are just in front of the wide part of the seat. Mostly in the curved out area. I tried to ride pushing myself back a bit but then I am stretched out too much and not comfortable. Based on where I was sitting when I had a basic fit I may have been on the wrong part of the seat itself. Or maybe not and I need to learn. Bottom Line: Where should my butt bones make contact with the seat? On the widest part or in the curved parts of the seat? 

Everything else seemed to feel really good. I enjoyed the longer ride with my friend. We just pedaled along, chatted and had a good time in the cool morning air. 

Good times. Thanks for the help.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Since you've only taken this one ride since I posted some suggestions, I think most still hold true, but will offer some feedback here.



rcwso said:


> Update: I was unable to ride during the week due to being out of town for work. I just got back from a 26 miler with a friend of mine. Here are the details:
> 
> 26 Miles, 16.5 mph average. Started at 2400 feet and climbed as high as 3000 feet. All gradual. Average Cadence--85.


My advice is to keep at smoothing the pedal stroke and upping cadence. Just need to focus on form and build saddle time. 



rcwso said:


> Hands: My hands did get numb a little today. Did not seem to be as bad as the first two rides. I concentrated on not locking my elbows and just being in a comfortable, slightly bent position. I also had my new gloves on. They seemed to help a bit as well. *The numbness simply came and went. If I felt it starting I would change my hand position and it seemed to help. I had to shake them out once or twice.*


Changing hand position at the start of numbness is waiting too long. Try to take a more pro-active approach, changing hand position frequently, avoiding the numbness. 

If you find that despite your best efforts this isn't possible, you may need tweaks to saddle fore/ aft adjustment, but I'd give it more time (working on form) before adjusting fit. 



rcwso said:


> Feet: My left foot felt great all day. No issues. My right was a little sore on the outside like before but it seemed to go away or I just didn't notice it much. I concentrated on trying to move my foot inside my shoe a little at times. It really doesn't move much but trying to put pressure on different spots. Nothing unbearable. *I will keep watching that*.


I agree. You shouldn't have to move your foot inside the shoe to avoid discomfort. If this continues you may need a shim in that shoe, canting the foot, but (similar to what I mentioned above) I'd concentrate on upping cadence keeping pedal pressure light and (in turn) hopefully minimizing the discomfort. 



rcwso said:


> Saddle: My rear started to get pretty sore at about 13 miles in. Right on the bones. A little soreness just in front of the bones in the middle area. At the turn around point I got off the bike and stretched for about 2-3 minutes and then got back on. Almost zero soreness on the way back except for a short period at the 22-23 mile point. I am not sure I could have ridden without getting off and stretching the whole time. It wasn't excruciating but it wasn't comfortable either.
> 
> Question: I am not really sure I am actually sitting on the right spot on the seat. I feel comfortable on the bike overall. I just am not sure I put my butt bones on the right spot on the seat.  It may require an adjustment but am trying to find out if I am in the right spot or any suggestions. My bones are NOT on the most padded spot on the seat. They are just in front of the wide part of the seat. Mostly in the curved out area. I tried to ride pushing myself back a bit but then I am stretched out too much and not comfortable. Based on where I was sitting when I had a basic fit I may have been on the wrong part of the seat itself. Or maybe not and I need to learn. Bottom Line: Where should my butt bones make contact with the seat? On the widest part or in the curved parts of the seat?


Saddles are of different designs with differing shapes/ contours, so answering your question is tricky. I think the bottom line is that you're positioned as far back on the saddle as is comfortable and your site bones should be supporting your weight. Not trying to be funny here, but considering that sit bones are internal and our butt covers most of the saddle, I don't know how anyone could know where their sit bones are (specifically) on a saddle.

That aside, saying that you feel stretched out when positioned back on the saddle may indicate the need to shorten reach, but all things considered (mainly, your acclimating to road riding, hand discomfort) I'd go back to my advice to focus on form, but more on this below. 



rcwso said:


> Everything else seemed to feel really good. I enjoyed the longer ride with my friend. *We just pedaled along,* chatted and had a good time in the cool morning air.
> 
> Good times. Thanks for the help.


The bold statement may be a source of some of your general discomfort on the bike. If you "just pedal along" and never get out of the saddle to climb or do simulated intervals, you'll never give your butt a rest. Watch the pro's and (on occasion) you'll notice them positioning their pedals at 3 and 9 and 'standing' for a time - basically just lifting off the saddle. 

Doing simulated intervals does similarly, because as you apply more pressure to the pedals, you're shifting weight off the saddle. Maybe think of the saddle more like a perch and less like a seat.

Starting with Porschefan's post, this thread may help you: 
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/beginners-corner/importance-properly-fitted-seat-288436.html


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## rcwso (Jun 8, 2012)

I have two 15-16 mile rides this week. I made one small adjustment to my seat and noticed that the seat was not level. May have moved when I was trying to re-attach the gear bag under the seat. Anyway, re-leveled the seat and moved it forward ever so slightly. 

Results:
Both rides my rear end felt much better. I felt like I was sitting on the padded part of the seat. I did not really experience any discomfort on my rear end. I concentrated on moving around a bit by getting up out of the saddle at times. But overall, just sitting felt much better. I will continue to ride that way for a while and hope to put a 25-30 miler in next week. 

Hands: Still a little numb at times. I have been moving them around more often. Or so I think. Not as bad as the first couple of times I rode.

Feet: My right foot has not seemed to hurt or have pain as much these past two rides. Not sure if it is a function of riding more and getting used to the shoes or even if that slight seat adjustment helped. Either way, I felt a little discomfort but nothing that lasted for more than a few seconds. 

Other than that, I am still smiling and enjoying being on the bike. Now time to put more miles on and see where I go from here. I still will continue to run a couple of times a week as well. I enjoy running. 

I will continue with updates as I put more miles on. Thanks for the help and insight. Any other suggestions or advice is welcome.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

rcwso said:


> I have two 15-16 mile rides this week. I made one small adjustment to my seat and noticed that the seat was not level. May have moved when I was trying to re-attach the gear bag under the seat. Anyway, re-leveled the seat and moved it forward ever so slightly.
> 
> Results:
> Both rides my rear end felt much better. I felt like I was sitting on the padded part of the seat. I did not really experience any discomfort on my rear end. I concentrated on moving around a bit by getting up out of the saddle at times. But overall, just sitting felt much better. I will continue to ride that way for a while and hope to put a 25-30 miler in next week.
> ...


Good for you getting a couple of rides in this week. Like most things, the more we practice, the better we get at something. 

Also good that you re-leveled your saddle. Should have been adjusted level during your initial fit, but (as you say) it may have shifted at some point.

Because your (fore) saddle adjustment seems to be working for you, I'm not advocating you change its position again. But as FYI, as you move weight forward, you also increase the weight borne by the arms and hands, so something to keep in mind if your hand discomfort continues. It's possible that just leveling the saddle would have done the trick, but (as mentioned) give this some time before tweaking further.

Minimal foot pain could be the payoff for your efforts to smooth the pedal stroke and keep cadence up - both of which (IME) contribute to keeping foot pressure light. I'm skeptical the saddle adjustment helped with that, but re: bike fit issues, most anything is possible.

By all means, keep us updated. And stay safe out there.


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## rcwso (Jun 8, 2012)

No plans to change anything at this point. Just ride. 

Yes, the seat needed to be leveled. I had messed with it a bit after my basic fitting and didn't realize the importance of leveling. I just eyed it and it didn't work out so well. Didn't really think it would matter seeing as I had never ridden a road bike let alone for more than a few miles on any bike. Now I know.

Time to put on some miles and see how I feel.


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## gte105u (Aug 12, 2012)

Since you mentioned being a runner and wanting to do some Tris, I thought I would chime in. I also run a few times a week, usually 5-7 miles per run with a longer on the weekend. I also bike a couple times a week (15-20 miles per ride) with a longer on the other weekend day (20-30 miles). I have done 2 tris, and have another in a few weeks. As I get closer I will do some Brick workouts (both bike and run).

I would suggest talking with the local bike shop on getting a set of clipon aerobars and setting up for TT. When I got my new bike, I told the guy helping me fit that this is my normal style. I also had an inexpensive set of Tec 9 aerobars with me. The shop helped me install and adjust them. Moved the seat forward, tilted it ever so slightly forward, etc. This can be a big benefit in how your legs feel when you get done biking and go to the run. I love having the aerobars as well. It is nice if it is windy out, and another position to help keep your hands from getting numb.

In case you are interested in a set of decent Tri shoes, I got a pair of Lake CX210s from Nashbar. They have 2 velcro straps and no seams inside. I use them for my normal biking shoes as well, and really enjoy them. Just a few things I found out, though I am nowhere close to an expert. Wanted to share since it sounds like our goals are similar.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

gte105u said:


> I would suggest talking with the local bike shop on getting a set of clipon aerobars and setting up for TT. When I got my new bike, I told the guy helping me fit that this is my normal style. I also had an inexpensive set of Tec 9 aerobars with me. The shop helped me install and adjust them. *Moved the seat forward, tilted it ever so slightly forward, etc.* This can be a big benefit in how your legs feel when you get done biking and go to the run. I love having the aerobars as well. It is nice if it is windy out, and another position to help keep your hands from getting numb.


If this set up works for your style of road riding, that's good, but (generally speaking) a more forward (TT/ Tri) position isn't recommended for recreational road riding. 

As you elude to, it utilizes different muscle groups - but more importantly, it also moves rider weight forward, so when not positioned on the bars, there's more weight borne by the arms/ hands.

Once a specific bike geo/ sizing are chosen, when doing an initial fit, it's best to keep it consistent with what the rider is _primarily_ using the the bike for. If it's tri's, then a more forward position would be considered, but for recreational riding, not so.

Some things for the OP to consider and a link to illustrate the differences in rider positions.
Tri Bike Fit


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## rcwso (Jun 8, 2012)

I appreciate all the info and insight. I am interested in doing tris as I have stated before and thank GTE105 for the help. Definitely things to consider. I do think that I will invest in a set of clip on aero bars at some point in the future. Right now as far as positioning etc, I am going to keep what I have because I am so new and just learning. I will mostly be riding for fun as a workout and to train for other events to include tris. I want to be able to ride in groups and with friends on recreational rides which will happen more often than just riding by myself. From talking to some other friends that do tris at times they have suggested just keeping my set-up for now and have fun. Yes, the geometry may be off by a bit for real triathlon set-ups but I am not sure how that will affect me right now. I want to get miles in the saddles and see how it goes. 

Thanks for the info on the aerobars and shoes. I will definitely continue to learn about geometry and how it affects the tris vs recreational riding. Once I have some more miles under my seat I will try to make a tri type set-up possibly and do some "brick" workouts to see how I feel with my set-up and a tri set-up.

For the next little while, time to ride and get the wind in my face and have fun.

Thanks. I will give more updates as I learn and have questions. Keep throwing me more advice and info.


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## gte105u (Aug 12, 2012)

Sounds like you are doing this all very smart. I certainly woukd not suggest you move anything as I don't know a ton myself. The bike shop owner I bought from told me that people who have a a heavier run background have developed their hamstrings and calves more. A position moved forward utilizes these muscles more. Also with triathlons the athlete wants to save enough in their legs for the run. Apparently in the more traditional races bikes utilize mostly their quads and leverage the legs for additional power. With the seat forward you sacrifice some power but balance the fatigue on the leg more and are more ready for the run. I may have screwed that up some but is the basis of my understanding.

I personally am of the mindset that if it feels right then that is the best way for you. Just wanted to pass along sone of my recently aquired info to keep in mind if you get to where you start doing both in one session. Have fun.


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## rcwso (Jun 8, 2012)

Two more rides under my belt. 

1st ride: Rode with a group of 4 of us. 2 very strong riders and one very good rider and then there was myself. We did 17 miles averaging just under 17mph. A couple of really nice climbs which I am very poor at and slow. Mostly flat ride overall. The strong riders pulled away big time on the hills. I was able to keep up just fine on the flats and downhills. I don't like hills when I run either. 

Overall: I feel relatively comfortable on the bike. No seat pain this ride. Feet feel pretty good. Slight discomfort for only a minute or two on my right foot where it has been bothering me. Hands slightly numb but not as bad as the past. 

Small group impressions: It was a lot of fun to ride with some friends in a small group. The simple conversation made the ride very fun. I was comfortable riding close to the other riders, holding my line and even staying on the back wheel at times. I was told by one of the very experienced riders that he was impressed that I was able to be comfortable and smooth in a small group. I am accustomed to riding close to other people on desert motorcycles at high speeds so this was similar. Fun times overall.

2nd ride: This I did in a group of 5 of us total. Same ride as before. 17 miles and just over 17 mph average. Same impressions and feelings as the previous ride. This time I did a Brick workout by running 3 miles after the ride. I had very heavy legs at first for about 1.5 miles. Then I felt pretty good for the last 1.5. Not the normal pace I run, which was expected, but decent to say the least. It was a good warmup and first try for a brick workout.

Fun times all around and looking forward to some more group rides with friends. I enjoyed that a lot. 

More reports later.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

rcwso said:


> Two more rides under my belt.
> 
> Overall: I feel relatively comfortable on the bike. No seat pain this ride. Feet feel pretty good. Slight discomfort for only a minute or two on my right foot where it has been bothering me. Hands slightly numb but not as bad as the past.
> 
> ...


Overall, sounds pretty good. I think you're on the right course and (maybe more importantly) having fun while on it.  

Re: the hand discomfort, I looked back on this thread and didn't see any suggestions for building core, which many new to road riding benefit from because as we strengthen our core, IT supports or frontal weight. Here's a related link that you may find useful:
The Best Core Exercises and Core Workouts

Thanks for the update, and when time allows, keep us updated on your progress.


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## rcwso (Jun 8, 2012)

Put in another 3 rides this week 1 x 16 miles, 1 x 20 miles and 1 x 35 miles.

I am feeling pretty good on the bike. Slight discomfort once in a while on my right foot. I have only noticed it for a second or two a couple of times on each ride. When I notice it I simply adjust my foot a bit or concentrate on my pedal stroke and it goes away. My hands have not been nearly as numb as the first few rides. Still a little but what I have noticed is as I shift more around the bike/bars I don't feel it as much. Nothing bad or making worry at this point. The saddle soreness seems to be fine. I have found that I move around, get up, and simply shift more often the past few rides and really have had no soreness. I have been riding with a few guys that are pretty good riders and watching them has helped. They get up out of the saddle when going through intersections or sometimes on the hills etc. I try to follow their lead a little and it has helped with overall comfort level.

The first two rides above were rides I have done before with some hills. Hills have been tough for me at first and still are. I have run for a few years and cycling uses such different muscles that I really feel it. I don't get fatigued from cardio but my legs feel it. It is a nice feeling to feel something different. Jello legs at times when I am done. I am still not comfortable going as fast as the others on the downhills. They just fly down them. We did ride one day with a pretty good amount of wind. I did not like that much. I had a much harder time staying on the rear wheel of the group. When I would fall back a bit, I was lost for a little while. No big deal. The other guys are just stronger at this point for me.

I rode a 35 miler this morning with a lot of hills. Those were painful but rewarding. Rode with some fairly good riders and they pushed me throughout. That was fun. No issues, discomforts that caused any problems. Soreness from the hills and riding length but nothing that I have not felt before when doing longer runs. We did one climb of about 700' over 3.5 miles and another of 400' at just under 3 miles. Back to Back. Those were tough but I cranked them out. Overall, 1750 total feet climbed today. Fun times.

My friend came over yesterday and taught me a bit about tuning as well. That was nice. 

Overall, wind and smile on my face. Riding with friends. Success.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

rcwso said:


> Put in another 3 rides this week 1 x 16 miles, 1 x 20 miles and 1 x 35 miles.
> 
> I am feeling pretty good on the bike. Slight discomfort once in a while on my right foot. I have only noticed it for a second or two a couple of times on each ride. When I notice it I simply adjust my foot a bit or concentrate on my pedal stroke and it goes away. My hands have not been nearly as numb as the first few rides. Still a little but what I have noticed is as I shift more around the bike/bars I don't feel it as much. Nothing bad or making worry at this point. The saddle soreness seems to be fine. I have found that I move around, get up, and simply shift more often the past few rides and really have had no soreness. I have been riding with a few guys that are pretty good riders and watching them has helped. They get up out of the saddle when going through intersections or sometimes on the hills etc. I try to follow their lead a little and it has helped with overall comfort level.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the update. Again, I think you're on the right track and learning as you go. Reading through your post, certain themes caught my attention, so I posted them below. As you can tell, words like adjust/ shift/ move/ get up are the remedies for most of your areas of discomfort.

Re: foot discomfort: I simply adjust my foot a bit or concentrate on my pedal stroke...

Re: hand discomfort: ... as I shift more around the bike/bars I don't feel it as much...

Re: saddle discomfort: I have found that I move around, get up, and simply shift more often... really have had no soreness.

Re: the leg fatigue, you're still relatively new to road riding, so I think acclimation/ development is playing a part, but working on smoothing the pedal stroke and keeping cadence up will help you build endurance, keeping your legs feeling fresher, longer.

Other than that, I'd suggest considering asking your friend to fine tune/ tweak fit - _possibly_ a right cleat adjustment, rearward ~2mm's and saddle aft ~2-3mm's, but I'm basing that assessment only on your posts, so it's for a fitter working one on one with you to make a final determination.

Last, but not least, glad you're enjoying the rides... :thumbsup:


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## rcwso (Jun 8, 2012)

Just wanted to post an update to my cycling experience for the first 3 months. 

First, I am really enjoying riding. Especially in groups. The social aspect is great. The little competition that naturally happens has been a blast. Each of us pushing each other a little harder without even realizing it at times. 

Second, I am getting more comfortable on the bike. I have made some very minor adjustments to the seat height that have helped but left everything else the same as all my previous posts. I do still find some numbness in my hands at times. Not every ride. I usually find the numbness on rides that I spend more time in the saddle for an extended period of time. On rides where I am up and move around more, it is not as noticeable. My feet have been fine. I have not had any soreness or numbness in my feet at all. Maybe on one ride over the past 15 or so. I noticed that different socks make a difference for me as well. I do notice some shoulder and neck fatigue on some rides. Also depends a little on what workouts I have done that week. When I swim one day, the next I know I will be sore in my neck and shoulders a bit. That is a logical outcome. Everything else has seemed to be going well with comfort and feel.

Third, the weather has started cooling off to the high 40's to low 50's when I ride. I have been riding with riding tights, thicker full-fingered gloves, a skull cap and even booties a couple of times. Keeps me warm and on the bike. I will say I do not like the wind. The wind has been a challenge for me to want to ride in. I would rather go run. 

So no complaints. The bike has been great. I have enjoyed venturing out and doing more challenging rides with longer and steeper hills. I have started noticing my legs getting more accustom to riding and maybe a bit stronger. They still get sore when I really push it but not like they did at first. Totally different muscles from my few years of running that I have under my belt.

Fun times and glad I joined the riding community.


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