# Gym workout - suggestions needed



## moschika (Feb 1, 2004)

I joined a gym for a few months while the weather, daylight, etc are big barriers to getting on the bike. Anyone have suggestions on the kind of workout, specifically weight training to complement cycling. need to lose the spare bike sitting on my belly and i'm definitely not getting the mileage to make that happen. I can usually go for a ride on weekends, but it's during the week, in the evenings when I have time left to anything else.

any ideas would be appreciated.


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

spend the money on a trainer.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Buy a light, some carhardts and skigloves and commute . . . or buy a trainer and rollers.


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## mendo (Apr 18, 2007)

*I think*

there's a number of useful things you can do at the gym. I don't want to start a "benefits of weight training for cycling" controversy though. What about other kinds of cardio, stair steppers, eliptical, rowing machines and the like? Don't a handful of pros switch over to cross country skiing during the off season to break the monotony? Does your gym offer a yoga class? I think yoga, which emphasises flexibility and core strength, can offer some benifet for cyclists, if only to stave off a sore back on the bike. I don't see anything wrong with a weight lifting circuit either, but I would say focus on other forms of cardio, exersises to promote a solid core, and flexibility training.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

I haven't posted on this forum but this one caught my eye. I am in the military and spend long periods of time away from my bike. I have found that eliptical trainers do the best for maintaining my cardiovascular fitness while simulating a cycling-like motion. Lifecycles never did it for me. It also seems to strengthen my core since the motion makes you balance and use your supporting muscle groups. They burn alot of calories as well. 

I have an Elite trainer, but it is not that stable for the motion of a ship.


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## Frreed (Aug 17, 2006)

Roger that on the elliptical. A few to many days in boots, utes and personal protective gear have left my knees in rough shape (not to mention 47 years of general abuse).

The elliptical keeps the stress low and gives a good full body work out.


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## lawrence (May 17, 2005)

A few years ago I joined a gym and weight lifted, swim, did stepping, ran on the treadmill, took a few spinning classes. When I walked in I weighed 220 lbs. One year later I weighed 242 lbs. and lost 8" in my stomach and 7 1/2" in my thighs. My goal was to lose fat, lose inches, tighten up my abs, and increase my strength to the max that I could while I was there. I left benching 250 lbs. I was happy with that and I never lifted in my life. I'm 56 yrs old.

My suggestion is 3 sets of 25 reps with no rest between exercises and only 30 seconds between sets. This would be a good fat burning plus give you endurance. Work on one muscle group once a week. I was at the gym 6-7 days a week at 4:30am.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*In defense of free weights.*

Eddie B recommended free weight training in his book, for strengthening all muscle groups, especially those upper body muscles under worked and overstressed during the season. He recommended light lifting with free weights, adding up the total weight lifted (weight x reps) to equal about 10 tons in a session. Lifting moderate weights, 15-70 pounds depending on the muscle group, adds up to 10 tons in an hour or so.

A typical routine would be: warming up with three sets of 20 situps, sidelifts of a dumbbell, like lifting a suitcase, 50 or so reps each side, deadlifts to work lower back, french curls, bench presses, and so on to tone upper body, squats to strengthen leg, butt and back muscles.

In the spring, you'd be amazed at how great it feels to get out on the bike. You can do everything you did last season, although your endurance is low, and can stress out your body without fear of injury. I've done weights several winters over the years and it has always paid off.

The idea is high repetitions of moderate weights to gain strength, flexibility and a certain amount of endurance, not "bulk up" the fast twitch fibers that in the Spring will only get you up that first big rise. I've always liked the balance free weights provide. That translates well to controlling a bike.


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## moschika (Feb 1, 2004)

iliveonnitro said:


> spend the money on a trainer.


i have a trainer and it's one of the most boring physical activities i can think of doing. not that running on an elliptical is more "exciting", but at least there's the possibility of a better view then my tv or garage/shed.


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## moschika (Feb 1, 2004)

Pablo said:


> Buy a light, some carhardts and skigloves and commute . . . or buy a trainer and rollers.


i do commute by bike, but it's very, very short. i know i could ride farther out and back, but riding at night on the bike path is kinda sketchy. 

re: a trainer - see above post


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## moschika (Feb 1, 2004)

thanks. this is what i was hoping to read here.


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## moschika (Feb 1, 2004)

thanks for the tip on those. i find the lifecycles pretty awkward feeling. like i'm riding a bike that doesn't fit quite right, yet i'm expecting it should given the kind of activity i'm doing.


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## shawndoggy (Feb 3, 2004)

while it won't directly impact your cycling fitness, working on your core strength will help with virtually any activity. And you never hear people complain about needing to lose ab muscle. Stretching too -- flexibility takes work for most of us, but getting more flexible is achievable.

A couple of things that have helped my trainer experience:
1. headphones. If you are going to watch TV, it's just way more pleasant not to have to turn it up to 11 to overcome the sound of the trainer, bike and fan. Get old school over the ear kind that are comfy and block out sound. Even cheapo $20 ones from target are worthy.

2. a big fan.

3. a tv series on dvd or an audiobook. You need to find something to get your brain off of the "this sux" mentality. For the life of me, I don't know how anyone can watch a bike race on the trainer. b-o-r-i-n-g!


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## GTScott (Dec 6, 2007)

I do resistance training 6 days a week in addition to cycling. I am not trying to set any land speed records so the added muscle weight does not bother me. My goal was mainly to gain a higher level of overall fitness.

I do my gym workout each morning (get up at 5 am--erg). I have a 3 day program which I repeat twice a week. Days 1 and 4 I do my chest and triceps. Days 2 and 5 I do my biceps and back. Days 3 and 6 I do my legs and shoulders. I do ab exercises every day. Typically I replace one day with a routine where I completely max out each muscle group with lower reps. I usually do this right before my off/rest day. On my normal days, I have 6-8 exercises that I do. I do 4 sets of each, 10-15 reps depending on the exercise. It takes me about 30 minutes to complete the routine. 

Here is my routine:

Day 1/4 - Chest / Triceps (sets/reps)
Vertical Fixed Bench Press 4/15
Tricep Extensions 4/15
Pectoral Flys 4/12
Glute Kicks 4/15 (I know, this one was added for variety)
Vertical Inward Bench Press 4/12
Tricep Push Down 4/12
Ab Crunches 4/15
Modified Side Crunches 12

Day 2/4 - Back and Biceps
Lateral Pull Down 4/15
Crunches 4/15
Preacher Curls 4/10
Seated Mid Row 4/15
Bicep Curls 4/12
Reverse Curls 4/12
Modified Side Crunches 12

Day 3/6 - Legs and Shoulders
Leg Curls 4/12
Shoulder Presses 4/10
Leg Extensions 4/15
Lateral Deltoid 4/15 (be careful with these)
Inner Thigh Extensions 4/12
Upright Row 4/15 (again, careful)
Outter Thigh Extensions 4/12
Modified Side Crunches 12

The differences in reps per set mainly stems from where the weight is. If I have just recently moved up a step in weight, I will lower the reps down for a week or two and start with 10, then move to 12 and then after a few weeks with 15 reps I will increase the weight again.

When new to everything, I found my shoulders were (and still are to some degree) very slow to progress. I also found that overdoing the weight on my shoulders would quickly lead to damage. 

Currently, I am coupling this routine with a 36-minute trainer interval routine and some running, as weather permits.

Once you find a routine that works well for you, post it on up. I would be interested in seeing what works for you.


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## lawrence (May 17, 2005)

I agree, work on your core. Abs, but you have lower, middle, and upper. And work on the back. I do leg exercises only in the winter. I work on the hamstrings and toes and ankles. I stand on the edge of something, like a step with the front of my foot, and I lower myself and raise myself. This works on the lower foot and hamstrings and stretches the tendons in the rear leg. And don't forget to work your butt, glutes, a lot of biking comes from these muscles. For my back, besides using weights, I face down and hold my upper body over something and lower my chest down and back up again.


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## reikisport (Aug 16, 2006)

There are a lot of misconception on strength training for endurance athletes, the light weight hi rep idea is a common one. Things have changed alot since EddyB's days. Also the body part per day workouts while OK for Body builders not a very good idea for endurance athletes or really anyone else.
Depends on your goals. The best way is to use the periodiztion model to set up your training.
Idealy your Strength Training plan would look simolar to this:
Anatomical Preperation Get the body ready to lift 2-4 weeks full body 1-2 sets 8-15 reps(30-60sec rest)
Hypertrophy(Building muscle) 6-8wks 3-6 sets of 8-12 reps Full bodyModerate weight(30-60sec rest)
Strength 4-6weeks 4-6 sets 2-6reps HEAVY Weight.2-3min rest
Power 4weeks Mostly Olympic lifts Moderate weight 1-2min rest
Endurance 2-4 weeks This is the hi-reps low weight
Maintence (year round) 1-2 sets 8-12 reps.
Work up to donig single leg stuff use dumb bells med balls stay away from machines. Learn to squat with good form.
Hire a trainer with a degree in exercise science and a cert from the NSCA or contact me off list.
CoachT


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## rbart4506 (Aug 4, 2004)

In the winter I'm forced indoors as well so I hit the gym and have a trainer for home workouts. I use to go to the gym more in the winter and lift weights to work my upper body and legs. What would end up happening is I'd end up hurting myself. One year I screwed up my back on the leg press machine and a few years later I buggered up my knees doing squats. Both those injuries are still issues today so now the gym is only for core work and light weight work for the upper body. The only leg work that is done at the gym is isometric type workouts that focus on training leg muscles to work that usually don't do much while I'm on the bike.

I basically came to the conclusion that I am a cyclist and that the best way to get better at riding a bike is to ride a bike. Hence the reason I'm on my trainer 4 times a week and make sure that every trainer workout has a goal. One day will be intervals, one day steady state, one day power and one day recovery. Actually the gym days could also be considered recovery too.

My goal this winter is to emerge in the spring with no new sore spots and just maybe a bit more top end speed.


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## moschika (Feb 1, 2004)

i am meeting with a trainer at the gym. I will let him know what i'm hoping to get out of my visits there and hope to come up with some kind of plan. i may print this out as a guide.


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## moschika (Feb 1, 2004)

rbart4506 said:


> I basically came to the conclusion that I am a cyclist and that the best way to get better at riding a bike is to ride a bike.


I agree. but i'm also looking at overall fitness and i sometimes don't feel I get all that from just riding. but i guess i should dust off the trainer, it's been relegated to the "shed" since it's too noisy in the house and my dogs go psycho when they hear it. that also means, music or audiobooks only.  but it is cooler out there then in the house.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

I am fortunate to have a spare bedroom in our finished basement to set up my trainer. I have a computrainer pro that I bought in 1996 and it still works great, nintendo game and all. I have a 20" TV that I bought twenty years ago sitting on a set of steel wire shelves that I got at Home Depot. About halfway up I have a large fan that sits about 2 feet off the floor so I get a good breeze. I have a vcr to watch the various cycling events that I have taped in the past. I have three years of tour depont, four years of TdF, and various tapes that I have bought through the years. I watch tapes on my recovery days. On my hard days, I listen to music on my laptop computer and set the computrainer up on my custom route of 24 miles with 1% grade and set the pacer at 370-450 watts. My draft wattage is around 100 less. I sit in the draft and do intervals by sprinting out of the draft for 20 seconds at a time and then falling back in line to recover. It hurts. I also do one leg alternating for 40 seconds with 20 seconds of two leg spinning before switching to the other side. I usually do this at the end of a hard workout. 

I do pushups and abs (leg lifts, crunch, side twists, regular situps) along with some higher rep upper body weights. For my legs, I have done weights in the past, but I find doing intervals accelerating with a large gear to do just as much good.


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## lawrence (May 17, 2005)

If you lift heavier weights with low reps or even enough weight to do medium reps, you will build muscle. You need to make a decision. Muscle is heavy. Heavy will hurt your biking. How much muscle do you want to put on?

You should be looking at bike specific exercises and do low weight, high reps, short or no rest periods. This will build muscle endurance, burn fat, improve your cardio.

As part of my "gym experience", I chose 3 or 4 exercises, got everything set up with the right amount of weight, and went from one exercise to another without a rest period, doing the exercises very fast. After I did one complete round, I started again, with no rest. Since I was working different muscle groups with none, some, or minimal overlap, I did not have to have a 30 second rest for my muscles to recover. This type of workout not only improves cardio but has been proven to burn fat the fastest.

If you can add muscle or replace fat with muscle -
1 lb. of muscle will burn 15 calories per day without doing anything.
10 lbs. of muscle will burn 150 calories per day without doing anything.


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

That is essentially what my coach/team trainer had us doing last yr, although in a somewhat abbreviated version. I have mixed reviews on it, but I WAS much more fit this past yr than in yrs gone by...


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## Freeagent35 (Aug 23, 2004)

I'm 40 and am just coming off my best year ever. My winter training feels even better this year than last so I'm even more optimistic.

My general training format:

Equipment: 

(1) Computrainer with a Raleigh Prestige ($1500 plus about $500 to $1000 to build up a CT bike).
(2) Schwinn XR Exerciser (old 1970s and 80s type; can found on Ebay and can be easily modifed into a very nice, inexpensive, durable trainer). (About $50 plus about $200 in parts). You need BMX 3 piece cranks to use clipless pedals. After using a cheap set (Poverty; $30) and having problems with a screwy Q factor, I broke down and bought some nice sealed bearing Redline Flite Cranks ($100). You can use MTB bars and ends with the stock stem. A BMX type seat clamp (about $7 in any bike shop) works great with the goofy post on most of these bikes. That way you can use a good road saddle. (I swear by Flite Gel). Putting a computer on requires a little fiddling (glue, perhaps a sheet metal screw) and I use a heart rate monitor on all of my bikes. 
(3) Weights: Golds Gym XR35 plate based multi gym unit with a 45 pound bar and 210 lbs of plates, plus 10 to 30 lb dumbells. ($300 plus about $250 for weights). The XR 35 has a cable crossover setup that is really neat in this price range. Very durable and smooth unit for a very reasonable price, in my opinion. (ICON Fitness; Also see the Weider brand).
(4) Dip/pull up/leg raise tower ($75)
(5) Sit up bench ($50)

I typically rotate between the CT and the Schwinn with a 3 on and 1 off format. I do weights maybe 2x per week in the winter and 1x a week in season. I keep the weights light and reps high to avoid bulking up. I used to do one day on and one day off, but I found that by doing 3 ons, with easier and harder days, I have more stamina overall.

As far as weights, I focus on an overall body workout. Most guys do way too much bench and biceps work, in my opinion. By focusing on less common exercises like upward rows, deltoid raises (front, side, back), and various tricep work, I concentrate on my cycling specific (fatigued) muscles without bulking up excessively.

I also do bar dips, leg raises, and a lot of situps to build core strength. A fitness ball (or actually the one that looks like a vitamin capsule is my preference) is also great for back and ab work.

Cycling Training:

When doing the trainer, I watch Tour De France videos, with emphasis on the climbing stages. I average about 1 to 2 hours per session, about 100 to 150 simulated miles a week. I put a TT bar on both bikes so I can practice time trialing and it has helped my long solo efforts.

When I first started using the trainer, I had the same problem as everyone else: BOREDOM. The TDF videos make a huge difference IMHO. I tried Spinervals and found them irritating (gear changes every 30 seconds?) I now have 10 years worth of TDF and work my way through the years about every 3 or 4 months.

There is no doubt that a Computrainer is a pricey toy. But, how much is the average cardiac arrest? If you consider it in those terms, or think about how much you suffer in March and April coming back into form if you don't like cold/wet weather outdoor training, the item doesn't seem so bad. With CT you can download a variety of courses and keep it interesting. You can also track your progress as to your average wattage. I started last November, averaging about 190 watts over 1 hour and now push about 215. My max sustained climb was maybe 300 to 325 and now I can push 400 to 450 for a minute. This isn't bragging; I give all the credit to the CT's features and the ability of the unit to keep you interested and motivated.

In my opinion, the SPINSCAN feature of the CT (ability to judge your power balance between legs and relative efficiency) is worth the price of admission alone. I started in the low 50s as to efficiency and now run high 60s to low 70s. This made a HUGE difference in my stamina this year. All of my friends were stunned at how much stronger I was. Additionally, I did not have bad days and good days. I was consistent throughout the season and always near the front (though there were still younger, stronger, and more serious guys who race and who could beat me). Previously, I would have a Vinokourov or Botero day here and there where I would get was beat like a dog. Not this year (thank heavens).

I dreamed about a Computrainer for years but never bit the bullet. Now, I'm wondering why in the heck I waited so long. If you are debating, and can afford the $1200 to $1500, and if you are serious about your cycling and fitness, quit waiting and go buy the thing. If you are one of the odd ones who hates it you can easily get 80 cents on the dollar back selling it off on Ebay (if you take care of it).

Oh, by the way; if you use a trainer or CT, buy a trainer specific tire (Continental or TACX). They run cooler, stick better (for less slippage) and are less noisy. They are also very durable. I have used one for over a year. I bought a spare as I figured it would wear out but after 2000 miles or so it is almost like new. Just don't try and ride it on the road. 

SUMMARY:

With this training format, I stay at a CAT 3 to 4 level without killing myself and without making my wife want to divorce me by spending so much time training. I also don't have the peaks and valleys in my training and fitness like before.

My method may not work for you, but I'm very happy with it. Best of luck to you all.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

lawrence said:


> If you lift heavier weights with low reps or even enough weight to do medium reps, you will build muscle. You need to make a decision. Muscle is heavy. Heavy will hurt your biking. How much muscle do you want to put on?
> 
> You should be looking at bike specific exercises and do low weight, high reps, short or no rest periods. This will build muscle endurance, burn fat, improve your cardio.
> 
> As part of my "gym experience", I chose 3 or 4 exercises, got everything set up with the right amount of weight, and went from one exercise to another without a rest period, doing the exercises very fast. After I did one complete round, I started again, with no rest. Since I was working different muscle groups with none, some, or minimal overlap, I did not have to have a 30 second rest for my muscles to recover. This type of workout not only improves cardio but has been proven to burn fat the fastest.


That's pretty much what Eddie said. The intention isn't to build up big fast twitch muscles, but stimulate the cardio system and tone the muscles up. They refer to it as "circuit" training, going from one routine to another with minimal breaks. With the high reps, you're not struggling to squeeze out one more rep, but concentrating on good form and balance, just like pedaling a bike up a hill at 95 rpm in the 26 cog vs. 60 rpm (or lower) in the 17.


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## reikisport (Aug 16, 2006)

lawrence said:


> If you lift heavier weights with low reps or even enough weight to do medium reps, you will build muscle. You need to make a decision. Muscle is heavy. Heavy will hurt your biking. How much muscle do you want to put on?
> 
> 
> This is a common misconception. Lifting heavy weights with low reps (2-6 rep range) builds strength. Not muscle!
> ...


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## lawrence (May 17, 2005)

*You can build muscle by weight lifting*

I can agree with some of the stuff CoachT is saying but I can easily disagree.



reikisport said:


> lawrence said:
> 
> 
> > If you lift heavier weights with low reps or even enough weight to do medium reps, you will build muscle. You need to make a decision. Muscle is heavy. Heavy will hurt your biking. How much muscle do you want to put on?
> ...


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## reikisport (Aug 16, 2006)

I regret that I omited "on average " . Everyone is different and genetics plays a big part.
Also when you started did you come from a sedemtary background if so yes it's very common for people who didn't exercise to have great gains. Also what else where you doing? Cycling/aerobic work? Creatine? Age/ gender/genetics also play a big part.
but for "most " I stand by my statement. 
How was your BF% measured?


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## Cervelo-er (Apr 10, 2004)

*Be wary of gym trainers...*



moschika said:


> i am meeting with a trainer at the gym. I will let him know what i'm hoping to get out of my visits there and hope to come up with some kind of plan. i may print this out as a guide.


You can't expect them to know jack squat about helping endurance athletes. I have a very negative opinion of them from my local Golds Gym where I repeatedly overhear them giving horrible advice, not correcting form mistakes, etc. For cycling, you need a cycling coach...otherwise stick to the books. There are more than a couple out there for cross-training for endurance athletes.

Good luck.


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## Blue Sugar (Jun 14, 2005)

I prefer the gym to the trainer because I like to get off the bike for ten or twelve weeks during the winter. Also, my local gym has some very nice scenery, espescially on weeknights. I'd recommend doing leg presses over squats (easy to hurt your back with squats), at relatively high reps (16-20), 3 to 5 sets twice a week, and calf raises the same way. Use a weight that allows you to finish off in good form. Do a good warmup and cool down on the Lifecycle or elliptical, and easy recovery the day after. Also make sure you're getting enough protien to rebuild the muscles.

And don't forget the upper body. Work your arms, chest, and upper back as well as the core (abs, obliques, and lower back). Again, keep the reps at 16-20 and pay attention to your form, the goal being definition, not size. 

You can also get a good interval workout on the Lifecycle.

And don't forget to stretch!


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## lawrence (May 17, 2005)

I had been working out with dumbbells, body weight exercises, running, and doing Ultimate Fighting, boxing, judo, jui-jitsu on a daily basis and some biking. The previous year before I had lost 70 lbs. I had my body fat analysis done with some type of laser on the bicep. The gym is in partnership with the local hospital so I would assume this would have been a very accurate way of measuring body fat. I had questioned the method and the next day went to another local gym that was offering free body fat analysis. They did it by connecting your finger and your toe to a metal clip and passing electricity through the body. They were both exactly the same. So now I feel the laser is an accurate way of doing it.


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## moschika (Feb 1, 2004)

yeah, i was a bit disappointed in my meeting. though I think i was getting something else. either way learned a few core exercises, all with minimal investment. there was also a bit of a language issue - he was jamaican and a little hard to understand sometimes. 

might just have to put together my own sort of "plan".


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## supps (Jul 9, 2007)

If you don't want to build up much muscle (which is actually hard to do anyway), I'd try doing a full body workout each time you go to the gym (2x to 3x per week) and doing two sets of 15. Just do all your lifting in a circuit fashion, one exercise right after another (maybe put non-related muscles together like push pull activities or upper body and legs). Maybe do the trainer on the off days and even run to the gym instead of driving. 

I used to lift a lot more in the past, but when you haven't lifted in a while and go into the gym trying to do 4 sets of 8 and put up serious weight, it makes you much more prone to injury. A lot of reps reduces that chance. Just my two cents.


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

moschika said:


> I joined a gym for a few months while the weather, daylight, etc are big barriers to getting on the bike. Anyone have suggestions on the kind of workout, specifically weight training to complement cycling. need to lose the spare bike sitting on my belly and i'm definitely not getting the mileage to make that happen. I can usually go for a ride on weekends, but it's during the week, in the evenings when I have time left to anything else.
> 
> any ideas would be appreciated.


5 years ago, before my 2nd child was born, I did some serious lifting during the winter and I was unbelievely stronger following year.

I got most of the ideas from the Training Bible by Joel Friel and tweaked it little bit for me.
Here is my regimen.

I rode 4 days a week follow by 1 session for upper body(once a week) work out and 2 sessions of lower body (twice a week).

For upper body - All of them were done on superset. 4 set/15 reps of slight incline bench follow by pull up. 4 sets/15 reps of decline bench follow by bend-over barbell rows. 
3 sets of shoulder press follow by 3 sets of lateral raise (compound set).
4 sets of tricep press down follow by bicep curl (barbell or dumbbell). I threw in 3 set of forearm curl when time permitting

Lower body - 6 sets of leg press (25 reps+) immediately follow by 6 sets of deadlift (25+reps) . 4 sets of standing calf raise follow by 4 sets of Donkey calf raise (25 each).

Caution, start with less sets/reps and build it up .

Following year, I had one of the best season ever. I had the super explosive jumps whenever it was needed and really help me with the sprint finishes and uphill attacks...


Good luck and have fun!


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*To clear up some misconceptions..*



reikisport said:


> Lifting heavy weights with low reps (2-6 rep range) builds strength. Not muscle.


When I was lifting, about the time Arnold Schwartzenegger was winning body building contests, the standard wisdom was lifting heavy weights tore more muscle fibers and stimulated growth. You know, "No pain, no gain." Adapting to ever larger weights, the muscles get larger and stronger.

Pundits differentiate between strength and power. If not strength, would you apply the term power to large muscles?

The best book I've read on cycling physiology was written by a physician. He describes fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fibers, present in nearly equal amounts in all muscles. The fast twitch burn glycogen stored in them, deliver awesome power, but when the glycogen is used up, need to rest and recover. These are the muscles stimulated in lifting weights, as well as quad busting low rpm climbs.

The slow twitch fibers can use oxygen for energy, so they can go for long periods of time. They don't grow as thick as the fast twitch fibers, so can't deliver the power in one contraction that fast twitch can. They're long and thin, think racehorse or greyhound--or Fausto Coppi. When well trained, they can burn high wattages (wattage being a measure of power) just like fast twitch, but also have endurance as long as the cardio system can keep delivering oxygen.

Lifting light weights many times, controlling the burn, keeping it up so that the heart and lungs really kick in, that's just like pedaling fast in a gear the legs can "stay on top of." Both activities stimulate the oxygen burning slow twitch fibers, burn fat, and do all the good things a fit cyclist wants.

So what's wrong with this scenario?


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## moschika (Feb 1, 2004)

determining load:
any tips on how to determine the load of any given weight training exercise? i hear start lighter then heavier, but how light is too light? when does it become "too heavy"?


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## lawrence (May 17, 2005)

*I used # of reps to determine maximum I should lift*

I used the # of reps for the exercise routine that I was trying to accomplish as the determining factor before I increased the weight. If I was doing a 12-15 rep routine and I could push/lift that weight 15 times, I would then increase the weight 2 1/2 or 5 lbs. This would bring me back down to 10-12 reps. Some may choose 20 reps as a #. Anytime you lift heavy weight, you are building bigger muscles and you are taking the chance of getting injured with a heavier weight.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

moschika said:


> determining load:
> any tips on how to determine the load of any given weight training exercise? i hear start lighter then heavier, but how light is too light? when does it become "too heavy"?


Spend a few weeks getting the correct motions down, building up form and a sort of 'base' strength. Then try and do your max on the various exercises, and use that as a basis for your lifting in the future. 

If you're still looking for some kind of plan, Dave Morris' book Performance Cycling has a pretty decent section on weight lifting, you may find it useful.


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## ToF (Jan 18, 2008)

I rock climb at an indoor gym. Great for upper body strength and aerobically it can be similar to interval training (from a cardiovascular sense). Its the only gym like activity I have ever enjoyed. I hate circuit training and never stick with it.


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## guava (Aug 4, 2007)

A lot of the strength gains from lifting in the 1-6 rep range are nuerological. It trains your motor systemm to recruit more fibres, so It will help with power. Power is strenght X speed, so ultimately plyometrics are probably the best way to get there. it is the 8-12 rep range that will build size, and cyclists should go there sparingly. i like the idea of doing low intensity circuits to start, so that you can get your form together and prep yur connective tissue. After 3-4 weeks of that, you can move to hypertrophy, but don't stay there long. It will bulk you up and slow you down. just use it to prime yourself for more intense efforts. if you want to go to a power phase after that, you can do a few heavy, low rep workouts. The end phase , which you can carry into the season somewhat if you have time, is a more intense circuit, using lots of body weight and core strenght exercises, with little to no rest, mixing in some plyometric jumps. i used to be a personal trainer, and i have experimented with this from year to year. a couple of years ago i tried just doing what i enjoyed, which is being a gym rat and blowing up, and then tapering down to boot camp stuff after january. I gained over 10lbs in less than 8 weeks, and was at 9-10% BF, but I was SLOW, and it took me most of the season to become competitive again. This year I kept the muscle building to a minimum, just doing circuit and core stuff except for maybe 3 weeks, and now aside from riding, I do a dumbell/bodyweight strength/core workout maybe once a week, and I am trying to get in at least a few min. of yoga almost every day. i am the lighest I have been in the spring for years, and I feel like I can do strength stuff when I want to, without it getting in the way of performance goals.


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## DannyBoy (Feb 19, 2004)

This is an interesting debate. In short I think lifting some weights and doing alternative aerobic activity will help you shift those extra pounds. I recently went back to lifting twice a week and have droped about 2 kg's that I was having trouble shifting riding the bike alone.

Not sure how/why, but I think building muscle must burn more calories that aerobic activity does. May be wrong, just my spin.

I think a previous poster made a good point that if your key aim is to be good on the bike outdoor or indoor riding is they key. That said I think we could all benefit from some overall conditioning.

I gave up the bike in my late teens due to injury and got into body building. I had some good results and did gain a fair amount of muscle and had a lowish body fat of about 10-12%.

I have to say it was bloody hard work to gain muscle size/weight. I trained very hard 3-5 times a week and the gains took years. It took me 6 yrs to get to my 'best'. I used heavy weights and low reps, light weights and high reps you name it. My point being that in my own experience gaining weight and muscle size takes a huge effort, so for most shouldn't be that much to worry about.

Give it a crack and watch yer gut dissapear!!!


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## guava (Aug 4, 2007)

muscle tissue requires a lot of fuel to sustain itself. Your basal metabolic rate jumps when you grow muscle. The simple version is that you will burn more calories sitting still when you have more muscle. This may sound great to someone that is trying to lose weight to be faster, but just remembr that all that muscle will still need to be fed to the same new proportion IN A RACE! When I was a trainer, I would bonk catatrophically at races on a regular basis (xc mtb). I was 5'7", at 9-10% BF, and I weighed about 163lbs. I had to feed all the extra muscle I was carrying. I would be a monster for the first lap, just powering through everything, up at the front.and by the end I would be walking so I could eat faster . The reason a lot of endurance guys have trouble loing fat is because endurance training doesn't just train your muscles and cardio system. It also trains your other systems to adapt as well. You are teaching your body to use calories efficiently, and therefore your metabolism slows down. We used to always have the women at all of the gyms I worked at, that we called the "cardio queens" that only came in to use the treadmill or stair climber. It was it's own little clique. They often had the big fat asses, and never lost any weight, because they did nothing else, and trained themselves to be fat marathon walkers. We called it the cardio spiral. It was very frustrating to people until they figured it out.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

guava said:


> muscle tissue requires a lot of fuel to sustain itself. Your basal metabolic rate jumps when you grow muscle. The simple version is that you will burn more calories sitting still when you have more muscle. This may sound great to someone that is trying to lose weight to be faster, but just remembr that all that muscle will still need to be fed to the same new proportion IN A RACE! When I was a trainer, I would bonk catatrophically at races on a regular basis (xc mtb). I was 5'7", at 9-10% BF, and I weighed about 163lbs. I had to feed all the extra muscle I was carrying. I would be a monster for the first lap, just powering through everything, up at the front.and by the end I would be walking so I could eat faster .


that just means your pacing and fuelling strategy was wrong, and / or you simply hadn't develop the specific fitness required for the event.



guava said:


> The reason a lot of endurance guys have trouble loing fat is because endurance training doesn't just train your muscles and cardio system. It also trains your other systems to adapt as well. You are teaching your body to use calories efficiently, and therefore your metabolism slows down.
> 
> We used to always have the women at all of the gyms I worked at, that we called the "cardio queens" that only came in to use the treadmill or stair climber. It was it's own little clique. They often had the big fat asses, and never lost any weight, because they did nothing else, and trained themselves to be fat marathon walkers. We called it the cardio spiral. It was very frustrating to people until they figured it out.


losing fat or weight (it doesn't really matter which you are referring to) is simply a matter of thermodynamics. if you run a consistent calorie deficit you will lose fat and weight, likewise, if you consume more calories than you burn, you will gain weight.

gross efficiency doesn't change that much and so a calorie burnt will always require a certain amount of mechanical work to be performed irrespective of how it is done or what metabolic pathway is utilised.

if you consistently run a large calorie deficit then your Metabolism may slow down, but what happens then is that the power you can produce falls (And hence, the total energy per unit time falls). Efficiency doesn't change much. eat properly, and you will be able to train well.

The cardio queens as you refer to them do not lose weight simply because they are not burning more calories than they are consuming. It has nothing to do with their efficiency. It's more likely that their workouts are not either hard and/or long enough in order to burn sufficient calories to provide a calorie deficit based on their diet.

lifting metabolism a little through an increased muscle mass is small bikkies compared to a solid aerobic workout of a decent duration performed several times a week.

Six hours of riding per week at 200 W, will require the body to burn ~ 4300 Cal or about two days worth of food intake for an average healthy adult male. no one will lift metabolism that much!


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## tritodd (Jun 1, 2006)

*great routine*



GTScott said:


> I have 6-8 exercises that I do. I do 4 sets of each, 10-15 reps depending on the exercise. It takes me about 30 minutes to complete the routine.
> 
> Here is my routine:
> 
> ...


that sounds like a great routine. You are saying each day only takes you 30 min.? What is your rest cycle inbetween exercises?


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## RoyIII (Feb 24, 2007)

I am an elder-cyclist (64) so my regimen is probably not useful for you. I ride to the gym, about 20 min or so. I mix it up just for general fitness w/ a warm up with 30 min on the elliptical thing, with one or two days of light weight/high rep circuit weights (no rest between exercises) : flyes & bench press, lat pulldowns & rowing, quad extensions & hamstring curls; dumbell presses & curls; crunches, twists. I stay away from heavy weights and do not do any squats, leg presses or toe lifts. 2 or three days swimming about .5 miles in 30 min. working up to an hour and one mile like Vladimir Putin does, ride home. I have about a 30 minute commute that I try to do 2-4 days a week, and then at least 2 or 3 long rides a week. I am not trying to race or anything, but just trying to beat the clock and die in shape!


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## mclarent (May 9, 2008)

I would recommend Spin classes, especially the way they are done at my local gym, proper indoor cycling. They have a periodised program, working on everything (endurance, strength etc) with a 12 week program leading up to "race day". Training with a room full of people easily gets me over the boredom factor. Also, if you don't like that days session, just sit on the bike for an hour whilst they do their class! Find a good class though, I've heard of some really dodgy ones (press-ups on the bikes? No way!!), and get a heart rate monitor for sure.


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## crossracer (Jun 21, 2004)

As a deployed air force member i have a different take. Being here at camp minimum security prision  all i have is the gym. Here are some things that havnt been covered that i think are important. 

Number 1: Get somone to train with. If possible it will vastly help your fitness level, even if that person is not to the shape you are. Having the company and the ability encourage each other is priceless. 

Number 2: Lots of good suggestions here, however like anything you have to find out what works for you. That is a lot of trial and error,and thats why you should keep a journal. I have been here 4 months, and been doing 4 solid months of spin class, speed walking, and certain excersises. My first race is on may 31st, so i will get a chance to see what is in the tank, so to speak. 

No matter what happens on the bike, you and your health will be vastly improved by following a path heath and fitness. 

Hope this helps. Bill


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## Mike Kalish (Jul 2, 2008)

I've learned to enjoy my one-hour workouts on the LifeCycle. I use the "Random" and "Manual" programs and set calorie goals for the hour. 900 is my baseline objective and 969 is my record. I always make sure I have a large fan blowing directly on me. These workouts are hard, but have an incredible impact on conditioning.


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## JMKB1 (Jul 4, 2008)

I would think A combination of strength training coupled with hiogh rep dynamic effort work
would be benificial for riding. for max effort and dynamic effort work go to www. t-nation .com and look up stuff by dave tate or sign up and speak to some of the coaches online ask your questions and expect great answers. all the coaches are world class eric cressey was working with a guy prepering for the iron man.


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