# Trainers?



## Unit 91 (Mar 31, 2012)

I was wondering about bike trainers. I may not be able to ride daily and was wondering if they're a good alternative to it. It is supposed to rain here for the next week. I don't want to not be riding, but I don't want to be riding in the rain.

So... is a trainer worth it? What are some suggestions for good ones? Should I get a dedicated rear wheel? I'd really like to be able to spend an hour or two on the bike even when I can't.

Thanks in advance.

P.S. Is it ok to ride a Felt AR5 on a trainer? I have no idea if the type of bike makes a difference.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Trainers suck. Riding in the rain sucks. Losing fitness sucks. Riding at night is kind of cool. It's up to you to figure out how to balance the levels of suck.

I got a trainer recently. It definitely sucks less than riding in cold, heavy rain. A light drizzle or a chance of some cloud bursts or something, whatever - I'm not made of sugar. I do a couple things to make riding in the rain more comfortable for myself too, but I'll choose the trainer over a solo rain ride. (Or a group ride in the rain over staying home on the trainer.)

I have a CycleOps. Kurt Kinetic makes good ones too. There are, broadly, four ways resistance is generated in a trainer - wind trainers have a turbine thing, magnetic trainers have magnets, and fluid trainers also have a turbine but it's full enclosed and there's a viscous fluid that gets pulled through it. There are also trainers using a friction plate.

Look at some reviews on anything you're considering. You want one with a pretty burly frame. Mag trainers are loud. Fluid trainers are expensive, but quieter and I think they feel a little smoother. The resistance curve is also supposed to be more like what you'd experience on the road. I haven't used a wind trainer. The reviews I saw of friction plate trainers scared me off of buying one.

I don't use a different rear wheel for mine. I finished destroying a mostly worn out tire the first time I used it, because the resistance unit wasn't pushed against the wheel tightly enough. But when I've followed instructions, I haven't noticed any special wear. People who spend a lot of time on a trainer sometimes find it worthwhile to get a separate wheel, or just the tire, or sometimes a whole bike. You won't magically destroy your tire in one trainer session if you're better at following directions than I was.  It's up to you to figure out if you want to keep your trainer set up full time or if it's no big deal to just set it up and spin for a while. I might revisit the trainer tire issue next winter, but since the cold weather is done (knock wood) and things are getting drier from here on out, I don't need to hurry.

Get a fan. Your trainer session will suck a lot less. I watch TV when I'm on mine. Pick a show that's relatively easy to follow. :wink5:

Some manufacturers recommend against using their bikes on trainers. If you're worried about it, check with Felt. It's certainly a weird way to constrain a bike. I never get out of the saddle when I'm on a trainer, but I don't fear for any of my bikes either.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

The three best ones on the market for the price is 1Up, Kurt Kinetic Rock and Roll, and Cyclops Fluid 2. I've owned my Cyclops Fluid 2 for 9 years without any problems except one...it's freakin boring to ride! If I was buying one today I would buy the 1up because it's now the only one made in the USA, the others are out of China.

You do not need to buy special tires to use. I use nothing but old tires. If you use old tires though you must first clean the tire with soap and water and a scrub brush to get dirt off the tread, then check the tread for any embedded debris and get those out of the tire. Failure to do this could damage the roller.

Also make sure you place a fan directly in front of you to act like wind blowing at you when your riding. Failure to do that could cause you to overheat not to mention sweating buckets of sweat all over the bike and floor.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

I like the trainer for my morning workout which is usually before sunrise. 

Get a good video and attack it. Recommend anything from Suffered. 

But i am curious what people think the advantage to a good trainer is. 

I have a cheap old bike on a cheap old trainer and it mostly works well.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

NJBiker72 said:


> I have a cheap old bike on a cheap old trainer and it mostly works well.


Me too. My (mag) trainer is 21 years old as is my (steel) trainer bike. I'm sure there are better trainers, but I dislike 'riding' them enough that as long as my current model is functional and suites my purpose (maintaining my level of fitness), I don't care to spend more. 

Everything Andrew and froze have offered mirrors my experiences on the topic, but I will add that Felt addresses the issue of their bikes on trainers here:
FAQ - Felt Bicycles


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## RB Mike (Feb 23, 2011)

I'm a big proponent of fluid trainers...not because I love indoor training, mind you...but because they are a necessary evil and the lesser of all evils. During the off-season my pals and I did a little head-to-head-to-head testing of the CycleOps Fluid 2, Kinetic by Kurt Road Machines and Blackburn's Tech Fluid Trainer.

I'll transcribe a bit of what we learned here (the full article is at RoadBikeMike.com)

Conveniently, the Road Bike Mike office was split between devout CycleOps fans and diehard Kurt Road Machine fans. With literally thousands of training miles logged amongst our staffers and their ‘beloved’ indoor bike trainers, we didn’t need to look far for opinions. The Blackburn was a wildcard having no support or familiarity for the RBM crew. We dug deep into the corporate coffers and put together a couple hundred bucks to buy the Blackburn Tech Fluid Trainer and give it a go.

The recent spat of nice weather in our Denver offices afforded our staffers some real road time and our nominated trainer reviewers some quiet, intimate time with our 3 indoor bike trainers. The results were none too surprising.

Impressions of the *CycleOps Fluid 2 *Indoor Bicycle Trainer included:


> Hard to believe this trainer has over 3,000 miles…that is until you look down at the roller wear and sweat stains.


Thoughts on the *Kinetic by Kurt Road Machine* Indoor Bicycle Trainer 


> No risk of pulling a Christopher Reeves…this thing is solid when jumping out of the saddle.


Thoughts on the *Blackburn Tech* Fluid Trainer included:


> F*#k the Beach Boys and f*#k the Blackburn…these vibrations are not good.



Seriously. You can’t go wrong with the Kinetic or the CycleOps. Based on our experience, you can go severely wrong with the Blackburn.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

RB Mike said:


> I'm a big proponent of fluid trainers...not because I love indoor training, mind you...but because they are a necessary evil and the lesser of all evils. During the off-season my pals and I did a little head-to-head-to-head testing of the CycleOps Fluid 2, Kinetic by Kurt Road Machines and Blackburn's Tech Fluid Trainer.
> 
> I'll transcribe a bit of what we learned here (the full article is at RoadBikeMike.com)
> 
> ...


Interesting bit of info, thanks for sharing it. Why was the 1Up missing from your testing? I've heard great reviews on this forum and others in regard to that trainer.

I tested other trainers myself before I bought the Fluid 2, I tested wind and found there was way too much noise...they literally roar! I tested a couple of mag units and didn't like the way they felt, the wind trainers felt better then the mags. I tested a Minoura rim fluid roller and it was not smooth like the other fluid rollers. The only reason I settled on the Cyclops Fluid 2 vs the other fluid trainers was the sale price I got on it; otherwise I could have bought either of the 2 others that I liked and not been able to tell the difference. Of course this was about 8 to 9 years ago so trainers have had some minor changes since. But like I mentioned earlier if I was buying one today I would only buy the made in USA 1Up rather then some foreign made job.

By the way, I have about 9,000 miles on my Fluid 2 and I don't have any wear on the roller. I mostly use a mountain bike on the trainer due to the beefer frame and not being sure if it can damage less beefer road frames. And I use a smooth treaded clean tire, don't use knobby's on a trainer. Maybe the extra width of a mtb tire is preventing grooves on the roller due to the wider footprint and thus spreading the damaging weight of a narrow road tire over a larger part of the roller? Either way, Cyclops has a lifetime warranty.


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## rubbersoul (Mar 1, 2010)

what about rollers??


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

rubbersoul said:


> what about rollers??


Rollers are great, but they can be tricky to learn how to ride one. And most rollers don't have the wattage capability of fluid trainers. Whenever you see a cycling team at a racing event warming up for the race their riding trainers not rollers...hmm. Regardless read this for more info: Cycling Skills: Riding Inside: Rollers vs. Trainer

When you read that site, they mention something I forgot and others forgot to mention, so I'm going to highlight it so you don't gloss over it without pausing to think about it. If you get a trainer do not use your stock skewer that came with the bike, either use the one they provide or buy a cheap steel skewer so you don't mar and or bend your good one. Their easy to install, just unscrew the one pull it out, put the other in and screw in till you get the same tightening force you had. Make sure when you go to take your bike outside that you put your good skewer back in.

And again, as a precaution, if you use your street tires on the trainer to make sure you clean the tire first before putting it on the trainer or rollers, and make sure all embedded stuff is removed.


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## Stockli Boy (Jun 17, 2002)

Look at used sporting goods stores for great deals on trainers and rollers. I have both and definitely prefer the rollers, they have improved my pedal stroke and are more interesting than a trainer. Froze is right: don't use your 'good' skewer on a trainer. Stop by the LBS and ask if they have one; odds are they will have a beat up old one for cheap.


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## thegock (May 16, 2006)

*Kurt Kinetic Road Machine*

This has been good for me for five+ years. It's paired with a Schwinn Voyageur 11.8 that I bought with my last student loan 32 years ago. I watch race movies or Coach Troy Spinerval DVD's.

Have at it.


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## Nate1975 (Oct 18, 2011)

I really like my fluid 2, I actually rode the trainer for a while before ever getting my bike on the road because I bought it in winter. I'll get on it & watch tv, mainly doing intervals...average cadence then ramp up to 115 or so then back to average.


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## Unit 91 (Mar 31, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> Everything Andrew and froze have offered mirrors my experiences on the topic, but I will add that Felt addresses the issue of their bikes on trainers here:
> FAQ - Felt Bicycles


I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out.

I'll look into the ones mentioned here. Like I said I'm more interested in it so I can ride when I'm not able to make it outside. Seems like a not awful alternative.

Maybe I'll just use an old steel frame bike I have if I do get a trainer and not have to worry about breaking my good bike.

Thanks a ton for all the good info.


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## Schneiderguy (Jan 9, 2005)

I have had a KK for 7-8 years. It has worked great with very good CS if you need help. I use mine a lot in the winter and when it is really hot outside sometimes. I do intervals on the trainer most of the year instead of doing intervals outside as I live where there are not flats only roller hills.


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## skidmark2000 (Nov 21, 2011)

I'd been shopping around for a trainer online for a while and found multisportsa.com to be the cheapest place to buy Kurt Kinetic trainers in Oz. $400 for the cheapest version including delivery. 

Been very happy with the unit and have logged almost 1000km on it. Very sturdy, quiet and seems very well built. 

Don't have any experience with cycle ops but I've heard they are ok.


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## SFTifoso (Aug 17, 2011)

I just bought a Cycleops Fluid 2. And yes it is super boring, but I love heavy metal music so that get's me pumped up, and makes the time go by quick.

Another thing I've noticed is that my legs feel the workout more on the trainer, but my breathing is a bit slower and my heart-rate isn't as high. Also, on the road I avg. around 19 mph, but on the trainer it's 27 mph. And my bottom does get numb on the trainer, so I have to take breaks every 15 mins or so.

I can't wait for winter to be over.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

SFTifoso said:


> I just bought a Cycleops Fluid 2. And yes it is super boring, but I love heavy metal music so that get's me pumped up, and makes the time go by quick.
> 
> Another thing I've noticed is that my legs feel the workout more on the trainer, but my breathing is a bit slower and my heart-rate isn't as high. Also, on the road I avg. around 19 mph, but on the trainer it's 27 mph. And my bottom does get numb on the trainer, so I have to take breaks every 15 mins or so.
> 
> I can't wait for winter to be over.


Just a guess, but even though your average speed is higher, your breathing/ HR may be lower because of less resistance on the trainer versus road conditions.

IME bike fit is never quite the same on a trainer as on the road. basically, because we 'ride' differently; less likely to get out of the saddle/ change up positioning and more apt to stay relatively static. 

Rather than stop, I try to periodically lift off the saddle, relieving pressure. I also feel the workout in my legs more on the trainer, may be due to no freewheeling/ giving my muscles a break. But I do incorporate warm ups/ cool downs into the sessions. 

Agree that trainers are super boring, music helps and that winter needs to end....


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## BostonG (Apr 13, 2010)

Since this thread was revived I'm gonna throw this out there:

If you have only one primary bike and plan to ride the trainer sometimes but also ride outside other times, it's really nice to have a dedicated wheel - not just a tire. It's much quicker and easier to swap out a wheel than a tire when you want to go from the trainer to a real ride. Any cheapo wheel will do.


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## HISI808 (Dec 25, 2012)

I have a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine and I love it. Quality build, pretty quiet, good amount of resistance, and a lifetime warranty to boot. Also Kurt Kinetic's customer service is top notch.


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## dnmoss (Jun 27, 2008)

HISI808 said:


> I have a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine and I love it. Quality build, pretty quiet, good amount of resistance, and a lifetime warranty to boot. Also Kurt Kinetic's customer service is top notch.


+1 on all accounts...had a problem with mine earlier this year (after thousands of hours of use) and their customer service sent a new part express mail, no questions asked...

...although I am now in the market for the holy grail of a CompuTrainer, but that's a very different price point


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Just started using a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine and I like it - served up with netflix of course to break the boredom. It's very quiet and the effort required I find almost identical for comparable speeds on the road.


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## Higgins23 (Sep 3, 2012)

Just got a CycleOps Fluid 2. I like it so far. Problem is, I'm somewhat new to cycling, and I get really bored really quickly on the trainer. Anyone have some good video training programs or downloads to suggest? Nothing too over the top since I'm just starting and working up my cardio, education, etc.


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## bayAreaDude (Apr 13, 2012)

Higgins23 said:


> Just got a CycleOps Fluid 2. I like it so far. Problem is, I'm somewhat new to cycling, and I get really bored really quickly on the trainer. Anyone have some good video training programs or downloads to suggest? Nothing too over the top since I'm just starting and working up my cardio, education, etc.


Sufferfest videos are fun. Don't be scared off, they can be as hard or as easy as you want them to be.


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## Rickard Laufer (Jan 1, 2013)

I just bought a Tacx Booster. I think it works good. Not as riding out, but it works. Most boring might be that it is a static load to work against. I have never used any other so i can't comment on what is best. Would be cool with a simulator and a screen. Well, as far as for the Tacx, it the best of the simpler series that Tacx sells. Sturdy and all you need to fit any bike or will size is along in the package. I use to watch TV or have some music to distract me.


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## scduc (Dec 16, 2012)

I've been on a cyclops jet fluid pro since the end of October. I have my Trek Cobia on it, so the gearing would be better with a road bike. But other than that, I'm pretty happy. You have to mix up the videos to keep it interesting. No real coasting, so you get a pretty good workout if you want.


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## bikeriderguy (Oct 12, 2012)

Higgins23 said:


> Just got a CycleOps Fluid 2. I like it so far. Problem is, I'm somewhat new to cycling, and I get really bored really quickly on the trainer. Anyone have some good video training programs or downloads to suggest? Nothing too over the top since I'm just starting and working up my cardio, education, etc.


Netflicks is the bike god's gift to the trainer. Pick any series and start with the pilot episode.


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## RaptorTC (Jul 20, 2012)

I like my Kinetic about as much as one can like a trainer. Being on it is no fun in the, but the quality of it is superb.

I've found that adding structure to the trainer workout helps it go a lot faster. An hour with 3x10 minute steady state intervals tends to go by a lot faster than just an hour at endurance pace since there is some diversity. Some structure combined with music and something to watch makes the trainer a lot more bearable.


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## Higgins23 (Sep 3, 2012)

bikeriderguy said:


> Netflicks is the bike god's gift to the trainer. Pick any series and start with the pilot episode.


Yep - already have some shows downloaded, bikeriderguy! The problem is, I'm not pushed or motivated if I just watch tv/movies, vs. watching a coaching or training video. If I just watch tv shows, next thing I know the show's over and I've been at the same easy cadence and resistance for over a half hour! I need someone to yell at me and tell me to up my cadence/gear....then back off/recover....then back up again, etc.


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## SFTifoso (Aug 17, 2011)

Could the reason why I feel the workout more in my legs, while my breathing and heart rate aren't as high, is because of lack of fresh oxygen inside the house? When you're outdoors, you have a constant supply of oxygen, but indoors doesn't seem like you would.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

SFTifoso said:


> Could the reason why I feel the workout more in my legs, while my breathing and heart rate aren't as high, is because of lack of fresh oxygen inside the house? When you're outdoors, you have a constant supply of oxygen, but indoors doesn't seem like you would.


IME _perceived_ effort on indoor trainers is higher than road riding, but that aside, even in cold temps I open a window and place a fan in front of the trainer. Doesn't add oxygen, but does create a 'wind' that serves to cool. 

And it's important to stay hydrated.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

SFTifoso said:


> Could the reason why I feel the workout more in my legs, while my breathing and heart rate aren't as high, is because of lack of fresh oxygen inside the house? When you're outdoors, you have a constant supply of oxygen, but indoors doesn't seem like you would.


Depending on your particular trainer, distribution of your effort around the stroke can be different. A lot of trainers spin down faster at low speeds than a bike on the road would, so there can be more of a power demand at the top and bottom of the stroke.

For me, riding a trainer is usually less dynamic. I'm nervous about getting out of the saddle and I don't coast. I do vary my effort, but when I ride outdoors, the variety in my position is a bit easier on my body, especially since it's most likely to be at the efforts.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

You shouldn't have any problems getting the correct amount of oxygen unless you have a fireplace or a wood stove burning. Like PJ352 said, put a fan directly in front of you and drink fluids.


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## dnmoss (Jun 27, 2008)

SFTifoso said:


> Could the reason why I feel the workout more in my legs, while my breathing and heart rate aren't as high, is because of lack of fresh oxygen inside the house? When you're outdoors, you have a constant supply of oxygen, but indoors doesn't seem like you would.


One reason, in addition to the other replies, could be that you are more apt to coast at times when riding outside. All those little breaks in pedaling, even for just a second or two, add up and give your legs time to recover. When on the trainer, you are likely pedaling continuously the entire time with no break.

Beyond that, all the other reasons around fit, differences in style (you don't stand as often, which would work a slightly different muscle group), mentality/perception, over-heating, dehydration, etc...could make a difference...


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## Giffs (Jan 14, 2013)

Climate here only let's me ride outdoors 6-8 months a year,so I live on a trainer the other time. I have a magnetic blackburn I picked up at a Boxing Day sale 5 years ago, never had an issue.
oh and I bought a specific trainer tire.


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