# Help needed with Campy crank in Madone BB



## [email protected] (Jul 17, 2009)

I recently bought an almost-new Madone frameset on e-Bay, with the intent of transferring most of my Campy 10-speed components over to the new frame. My older style Campy compact crank wouldn't fit the new Madone BB shell, so I found a used Campy 10-speed compact Ultra Torque crankset on e-bay, and bought the Trek Campy-specific kit to install it. I used gasoline (outside) to clean out the grease from the bearings on the crank, and after cleaning the BB shell per Trek's instructions, mounted the BB seals in with Loc_tite per the Trek instructions. I slid in both sides of the plastic BB shield from the Trek kit. I re-packed the bearings with grease, and slathered it on the washers I added in each side. I then installed the wavy washer on the NDS ,and then inserted both sides of the crank. The Trek instructions implied that the splines of the Hirth joint should engage, and if not, some slight tapping with the palm of the hand should get the two sides engaged. As hard as I pushed, the two sides would not come close enough to engage, but using the center bolt of the crank, I was able to get the two sides pulled together. I torqued the center bolt to 43 Nm. The crank will spin, but it binds, and feels too tight. I can loosen the center bolt to get some freer movement, but its so loose at that point that the bolt would fall out in a mile or so. Any thoughts about what may be wrong?


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Did you check the BB shell to make sure that it has the correct width and both faces are properly aligned? Check the Campag Ultra-Torque specs on the Campag website, for your model year.


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## [email protected] (Jul 17, 2009)

Would Campy include these dimensions since they never intended the crank to be used this way? My understanding is Trek has created the adapters to allow a Campy UT crank to fit in their oversized BB. I looked through the Campy technical docs, and it only addresses the installation in a conventional manner using Campy external cups.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

> and slathered it on the washers I added in each side.


try taking out a washer or 2?


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

My bad, I meant to say, did you check the BB adapter kit to make sure that it meets the spec? My understanding is that the BB adapter kit that you use acts as if it were the real BB shell, at least from the perspective of the Campag UT BB cups.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

Have you contacted Trek customer service? You can buy a Madone Project 1 with campy so there has to be a way.


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## skygodmatt (May 24, 2005)

What you need are small shims in between the cups and the frame's BB.
Campy UT has a problem with pre-load but they don't admit it. 
l
See Rogue Mechanic. He's got the shim kits for $30. 
Scroll down halfway on the webpage link and read all about it. Simple fix. 
http://www.roguemechanic.typepad.com/


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## Tommasini (Apr 24, 2002)

*Push on Trek*

Don't get caught up in suggestions for 3rd party rogue solutions. You have a Trek frame and Trek BB converstion cup set - push on them to resolve the issue as it will likey be due to their manufacturing tolerances..........


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## ericjacobsen3 (Apr 27, 2007)

My Ultratorque Chorus crank works well on my '09 Madone 5.2. Once or twice I had a creak and thought my bearings were going but I removed the crank and cleaned. I can't remember what I did for washers but I did nothing beyond the Trek Campy kit and did not play with number of warshers. Keep in mind Ultratorque only spins a couple revolutions in the stand due to seal drag. If I get a chance I will pull the crank and check washers.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Tommasini said:


> Don't get caught up in suggestions for 3rd party rogue solutions. You have a Trek frame and Trek BB converstion cup set - push on them to resolve the issue as it will likey be due to their manufacturing tolerances..........


I totally agree with this. 

Also, to the OP, see thorough discussion on the topic of needing shims:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=189836


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## [email protected] (Jul 17, 2009)

I appreciate all the good information. I disassembled everything the other day, cleaned it all, and tried to measure the width between the Trek BB flanges where the "bearing seals" (washers) would ride--came up with 71 mm. This is a little wider than what Campy recommends, and probably accounts for the Hirth joint being difficult to engage. Another thing I noticed was that next to the drive side bearing, there was a retaining clip, in a groove on the axle, that wasn't present on the non-drive side. Since the bearings as I understand press-fit on the axles, I figured I could remove it without the bearing coming off, so I did, and the bearing stayed put. By removing the clip I probably narrowed things another 1mm. Afterwards, I re-greased, re-assembled (at a little lower torque--around 38NM) and seemed to get an assembly with no lateral play and it will spin much more freely than before (good to know about the couple of spins due to of seal drag--my previous Campy crank (sealed unit with tapered ends circa 2002) would spin forever in the stand). If the weather clears up in the next few days I want to hit the road, and will have a better idea of where I stand.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> I appreciate all the good information. I disassembled everything the other day, cleaned it all, and tried to measure the width between the Trek BB flanges where the "bearing seals" (washers) would ride--came up with 71 mm. This is a little wider than what Campy recommends, and probably accounts for the Hirth joint being difficult to engage. Another thing I noticed was that next to the drive side bearing, there was a retaining clip, in a groove on the axle, that wasn't present on the non-drive side. Since the bearings as I understand press-fit on the axles, I figured I could remove it without the bearing coming off, so I did, and the bearing stayed put. By removing the clip I probably narrowed things another 1mm. Afterwards, I re-greased, re-assembled (at a little lower torque--around 38NM) and seemed to get an assembly with no lateral play and it will spin much more freely than before (good to know about the couple of spins due to of seal drag--my previous Campy crank (sealed unit with tapered ends circa 2002) would spin forever in the stand). If the weather clears up in the next few days I want to hit the road, and will have a better idea of where I stand.


OK, but did you re-install the retaining clip in the proper place? 

If indeed the Trek BB kit is wider than Campy's spec, I highly recommend that you contact Trek about getting one that is compatible. Surely you are not the only one of their customer who wants to run Ultra-Torque on that frame model / family. There are good reasons for the spec, and it would make me very uncomfortable with your situation w.r.t. the Trek BB kit.


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## [email protected] (Jul 17, 2009)

orange_julius said:


> OK, but did you re-install the retaining clip in the proper place?
> 
> If indeed the Trek BB kit is wider than Campy's spec, I highly recommend that you contact Trek about getting one that is compatible. Surely you are not the only one of their customer who wants to run Ultra-Torque on that frame model / family. There are good reasons for the spec, and it would make me very uncomfortable with your situation w.r.t. the Trek BB kit.


I didn't re-install the retaining clip--I don't see where its needed on the the Campy-inside-the-Trek installation. Its not retaining the bearings on the axle. On the attached schematic, its part FC-RE008 that I'm talking about.


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