# Tarmac + Trainer = lots of confusion



## jeeper006 (May 10, 2010)

I recently purchsed an SL2 Tarmac and want to put it in my trainer as i have become addicted to riding in trainer after work but sold my allumm bike to help fund new Tarmac

I am confused as to whether or not i can slap the tarmac into my trainer. Some LBS say sure not a problem, Some LBS say that it will crumble like paper if you put it in trainer. Some spechy emails i read thoroughout the forums say the same things, some yes while some no....

I just ride consistently at a high cadence sitting the whole time while in the trainer, i never stand and try to push high hard gears... So i mean is can it really damage my frame from crusing at 85-95 cadence for about an hour..... 

I would like to think a $2600 bike could handle a little time in the trainer.... 

So i cant decide what to do.... im tempted to go to Academy and just buy a cheaparse POS bike to keep in trainer, i just really enjoy sitting on my tarmac!!!


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## Incident (Nov 22, 2011)

I don't know myself, but that doesn't sound right... I think it would work. Although nice and new $2600 bike I am not sure why you would want to put it on a trainer.


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Im sorry you lost me after "addicted to trainer."


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## jeeper006 (May 10, 2010)

RkFast said:


> Im sorry you lost me after "addicted to trainer."


haha, i guess i worded that a little strongly... What i mean is lately with school, work, and the new time change i dont have a whole lot of time to road ride during the day, so i like to use my trainer a few days a week..... Since i bought the Tarmac i havent put it on the trainer and i havent been out on the roads much due to weather and sugar cane season in Central Louisiana ( 18 wheelers and tractors leave mud and trash all over the road)


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

Think of it this way... If you can't trust a bicycle to support you on a stationary trainer how can you trust it to support you on a 40mph descent or hitting potholes???

You're not going to hurt your bike using it on the trainer. Just don't tip over and don't over tighten anything and you'll be fine.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

I ran my SL2 in a trainer for a year+ No issues.


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## b_new_b (Aug 26, 2010)

*No problems here.*

I've logged many hours on several SL3's and have had no problems. Make sure your set-up is correct.


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## jeeper006 (May 10, 2010)

What exactly do you mean by correct setup, I have the trainer specific skewer and I usually set my front tire on a brick or phone book or any random object laying around.... I also tighten the trainer down good but not insanely tight.. I see no point to bear down on the skewer bolt too much. I just snug it secure and get to pedaling


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## TheBarista (Jul 11, 2011)

I used my Tarmac Elite (2008) for two years in my Cyclops trainer. I used the heavy skewer they sold with it and a front tire block. The frame would flex but I never had a problem, even hammering out of the saddle.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

If you want an official stand on the matter, contact Spec's customer support and ask. They used to publish their recommendation (no trainer use) in their FAQ section on the topic, but it wasn't there last time I checked.

To be frank, IMO, what we think doesn't really matter, because if you experience a problem and submit a warranty claim Spec is the ultimate authority. For the record, some companies (Waterford, for one) recommends no out of saddle hard efforts, but also goes on to suggest a 'beater bike' for trainer use. They also suggest that, when ordering, the buyer communicates that the bike will see trainer use, because they'll use stronger seat/ chain stays. I think that's telling about where significant stresses can occur.

One could argue that Waterford's are steel, so not a fair comparison, but from my (admittedly) limited research, I think the argument that bikes aren't designed for the unique stresses placed on them on trainers has merit. Especially higher end/ lighter bikes.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

As PJ stated, the stresses on a bike on a trainer are higher than the stresses on a frame when out on the road. This is because the trainer supports/contrains the rear axle which puts torsion into the rear stays which doesn't occur out on the road because the frame is free to rotate about the tire contact patch during the pedal stroke. This is magnified as mentioned out of the saddle where the bike is rocked more aggressively with torque going into the handlebar for leverage. That said, if your frame cracks and it is under warranty and you don't tell the company that the bike cracked on a trainer, the bike company will have a hard time deducing that the failure was due to trainer usage. Also, as many stated, virtually all top level bikes can survive a trainer...but worse case...say a strong 250 lb rider laying down big watts on trainer may be a bad recipe for the rear triangle. A lottery.  My view is...if you are a trainer guy...either buy a dedicated exercise bike or don't use your good bike. But others use their $5K bikes all the time without issue.


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## KiloRH (Jun 16, 2011)

Ever watch the tour de France? Ever see what they do on their bikes before the race starts? 


It's a non issue. Put your bike on the trainer and forget about it.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

roadworthy said:


> ... if your frame cracks and it is under warranty and you don't tell the company that the bike cracked on a trainer,* the bike company will have a hard time deducing that the failure was due to trainer usage*.


_Because_ stresses placed on frames are different when on trainers, I wouldn't want to test that theory. I'd hazard a guess that Specialized has enough experience with CF failures to be able to narrow the causes pretty well. 

But as you say (paraphrasing), used prudently odds are good that Spec frames can withstand trainer use.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

KiloRH said:


> Ever watch the tour de France? Ever see what they do on their bikes before the race starts?
> 
> 
> It's a non issue. Put your bike on the trainer and forget about it.


IMO, a bad analogy.

Ever hear of a pro submitting a warranty claim for a broken bike? You won't, because at the pro level sponsors supply bikes 'as needed'. Break one and another appears within seconds.


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## AnthonyL88 (Oct 9, 2007)

There's no issue with putting your Specialized on your trainer.


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## CJ1068 (Jul 24, 2008)

Get e-motion rollers and there won't be any issues.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

CJ1068 said:


> Get e-motion rollers and there won't be any issues.


I am interested in the e-motion rollers. Curious if anybody here has them and what they think? Appears as though you can dial up the resistance which is a magneto/magnet or reverse motor type. Can you dial in the actual wattage of resistance?
Any review of them would be appreciated.


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## CJ1068 (Jul 24, 2008)

I have some, and they are great! They take a few rides on them to get the hang of it. I like them because they have a more "real world" feel to them than your standard trainer. They require you to balance and concentrate just as if you were out on the road. I am headed into my second Winter with them, and you can get on and just cruise or you can get out of the saddle and hammer as hard as you want without worrying about your frame as you would if it were in a standard trainer. It's not a cheap option at $850, but well worth the money IMO


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## alexp247365 (Dec 29, 2009)

E-motion roller owner here... won't go back to trainer ever again. Helping dial in your fit alone is worth the price of entry. 3-4 magnetic resistance settings. Setting #1 is like a flat road with no wind. #2 is like a flat road with a headwind. 3 is similar to a 4 percent grade. the last one is harder..... and good for low-cadence drills.

You cannot 'dial in the wattage.' Your avg MPH speed will go down quite a bit between each setting for a given wattage, though.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

alexp247365 said:


> E-motion roller owner here... won't go back to trainer ever again. *Helping dial in your fit alone is worth the price* of entry. 3-4 magnetic resistance settings. Setting #1 is like a flat road with no wind. #2 is like a flat road with a headwind. 3 is similar to a 4 percent grade. the last one is harder..... and good for low-cadence drills.
> 
> You cannot 'dial in the wattage.' Your avg MPH speed will go down quite a bit between each setting for a given wattage, though.


How do E-motion rollers have an edge on dialing in fit over other methods, such as trainers, size cycles or (my preferred method) tweaking fit after test rides?


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> How do E-motion rollers have an edge on dialing in fit over other methods, such as trainers, size cycles or (my preferred method) tweaking fit after test rides?


Believe you answered your own question.  You prefer tweaking fit after test rides as I do. Sounds as though the E-motion rollers is the closest simulation to riding out on the road. Hard to get a real sense of the dynamic feel of a bike on a trainer in and out of the saddle because the bike is locked in place.

Alex...thanks for your explanation of how the resistance function works. What I think would be cool although probably unnecessary and add cost is...if this machine had a computer interface to track and record wattage and virtual miles ridden etc...even dial in a variable load program further simulating real riding conditions. Of course that would add cost.
I am very tempted to buy one of these to tide me over until I can get out and ride more in the spring. Are there any other roller models to consider...perhaps with a programmable load adjustment?


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## Lick Skillet (Aug 21, 2011)

ditch the trainer and go ride on the road


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

roadworthy said:


> Believe you answered your own question.  You prefer tweaking fit after test rides as I do. Sounds as though the E-motion rollers is the closest simulation to riding out on the road. Hard to get a real sense of the dynamic feel of a bike on a trainer in and out of the saddle because the bike is locked in place.


I agree, and maybe I worded my question wrong. To clarify, compared to other rollers, E-motions are expensive. Alex is offering that "helping dial in fit alone is worth the price...", so I'm curious how E-motions (in particular) is better than other methods, including other rollers, which also simulate road riding better than trainers - and cost less. 

I pose it as a serious question, but can't see myself spending that kind of money for the 'fit facet' alone, because (as mentioned) there are still better methods, IMO/E.


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## alexp247365 (Dec 29, 2009)

Here is an example, and easy test that you can simulate in your mind.

Loosen your stem and turn your handlebars 30 degrees to the right. Tighten stem.

On a trainer, you can just move the base block accordingly to straighten out the handlebars. This would solve your fit issue indoors, but obviously not out on the road. 

An adjustment you make to your cleats could affect the way you sit on the seat, which could affect your shoulders not being perpendicular to the bike top tube. This would extend the reach of one arm versus another causing pain in that hand/arm/shoulder when riding. Something that can easily be masked by just turning the handlebars in which ever direction makes the pain go away on a trainer.

While you can tweak your fit on the trainer, your locked into the machine and won't be able to make a realistic assessment of your changes until you are 'unlocked' by either riding outside, or on rollers.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

alexp247365 said:


> While you can tweak your fit on the trainer, your locked into the machine and won't be able to make a realistic assessment of your changes until you are 'unlocked' by either riding outside, or on rollers.


I think you're missing my point. I'm not arguing the fact that there are better methods than trainers to tweak fit. I know there are and have posted examples. What I'm asking is (based on your statement "Helping dial in your fit alone is worth the price...") _how_ e-motion rollers are better than other rollers/ tweaking fit after test rides.

If there really is no fit related benefit (to E-motions) and you just like them for other reasons, that's cool too.


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## alexp247365 (Dec 29, 2009)

I think they are better to help dial in your fit compared to a trainer. While this isn't the main draw of the e-motions, this benefit has been a real benefit 'for me.' 

To give you some insight:
I spent last off-season putting in some good time on the trainer, cresting at 253 miles in one week. My body adapted to the riding style which worked well on the trainer, but translated poorly to actually riding outside. I had to re-adjust my fit once the snow melted to something that allowed riding in the hoods and drops versus plodding along sitting straight up with hands on the tops of the handlebars.

While any rollers will work, you can be more aggressive in your riding with the e-motions. 

Now, from a training perspective - 
I'll mentally have an edge compared to last year in knowing that there won't be any fit issues when I hit the pavement. I can focus more on my training, and less with playing with my cleats, or seat height trying to improve pedaling efficiency.

and lastly from a fit perspective - 
I've been able to dial out not only the immediate problems, but also the subtle ones that don't show themselves until 2 hours into a ride. This is something I wasn't able to accomplish with a trainer, and why I consider the price of the e-motions totally worth it.

Hope this is helpful to anyone on the fence with buying them. Another member on my cycling team has them as well. He has nothing but praise for them, too.


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## jeeper006 (May 10, 2010)

Well guys......... i finally came to a reputable conclusion. To stop being a Vag and just go ride outside!!! I've been doing that recently and have hung up the trainer until it gets really really cold at which point i usually just hop on the MTB and hit the local trails,. Central Louisiana doesnt really get that cold but for a few weeks out of the year, so i will just get out and ride!!!! I


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Yeah!!! Just go out and ride!! 

Its 38 degrees, pitch black, driving rain and a 20 MPH wind gusting to 35!!!!

HTFU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## jeeper006 (May 10, 2010)

haha, no riding for me today..... im currently on couch drinking coffee watching 20mph freezing cold North winds blow through.... i did get a good ride in yesterday though.


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## ianho (May 20, 2011)

I use my S-Works Roubaix on trainer for 1 hour, everyday. No problems at all.


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

What does the warranty say. It could be all good. It could void your warranty.


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