# Zipp and ENVE simultaneously launch new fastest wheelsets



## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Not for those who get blown around in the wind easily.

Zipp's new 808 NSW
























Zipp - Speed Weaponry | Wheels | 808 NSW Carbon Clincher?

ENVE's new SES 7.8


















SES 7.8 - ENVE Composites


Both companies claim that they are the fastest wheel sets they make respectively.

Both sets are right about $3500.


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

zips look crazy.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

I immediately noticed improved performance in crosswinds with my dimpled Zipp 202 Firecrest compared to my Enve SES 3.4. I sold the Enve wheels.


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## Keoki (Feb 13, 2012)

tvad said:


> I immediately noticed improved performance in crosswinds with my dimpled Zipp 202 Firecrest compared to my Enve SES 3.4. I sold the Enve wheels.


I have a similar experience, I was about to pull the trigger on a set od Enve 6.7 after hearing about their hype, but when I've tested them for 2 weeks, I can say that they are just hype and nothing more. They flex like hell on the climbs and on sprints (rubbing the brakes), not that much lighter than the competition and they cost more for no apparent reason. 

My 2009 Zipp 404 Zedtech was stiffer and lighter and less expensive than the POS overpriced Enve's. 

Simon Smart should really change hos name... To Simon Stupid.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

I noticed significant crosswind improvement changing from my zipp 303's to my enve 3.4's. Especially the amount of front wheel auto-steer.


tvad said:


> I immediately noticed improved performance in crosswinds with my dimpled Zipp 202 Firecrest compared to my Enve SES 3.4. I sold the Enve wheels.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

SwiftSolo said:


> I noticed significant crosswind improvement changing from my zipp 303's to my enve 3.4's. Especially the amount of front wheel auto-steer.


We are observing different results with different Zipp wheels. One could expect crosswind improvement moving from the 45mm Zipp 303 to the 35mm front wheel of the Enve 3.4.

On the other hand, the 32mm Zipp 202 wheel is a closer comparison to the Enve 3.4 35mm front wheel.

I don't know what front wheel auto-steer means.


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## kukula (Feb 23, 2008)

Whoa! Those Zipp wheels look sick!
I've been riding Zipps myself. The 303 and the 404s. Never had crosswind problems despite riding here in wind heavy LI. But then again I'm 180s so I guess that helps. Never ridden any other CF wheelsets so I wouldn't know how they perform. I'm in the process of obtaining my first Enve at the moment but after seeing those Ziips maybe I should stick with them? LOL


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

Interesting comments about wind. I have Zipp 202 Firecrests and never notice the wind on them, can ride no hands up hills, down hills anywhere and at pretty much any speed I like. I also have Zipp 404 Firestrikes which are very noticeable in the wind. It isn't as violent like some other wheels I've been on but they still get pushed around enough that makes descending with your chin on the bars or trying to ride no handed an interesting experience. I weigh 80-85kg, anytime I hear someone say that 404's don't catch the wind I figure people must ride in magic wind!

The showstopper brake track is great, although burns through pads like nothing else! (but I ride in the hills a lot and hit them pretty hard at the bottom of fast descents etc)


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## CliveDS (Oct 7, 2009)

Something worth mention is the Enve are tubeless ready. Wheels like this with 25mm tubeless tires are going to be faster, feel better and flat less.


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## config (Aug 16, 2002)

That Zipp wheel is sic - I want one!


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

config said:


> That Zipp wheel is sic - I want one!



Carbon unicycle?


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

Keoki said:


> They flex like hell on the climbs and on sprints (rubbing the brakes)



Just a thread note: it does not take much googling to find that in fact the stiffer wheel would rub before a wheel with more flex. This is a common misconception.

I am not trying to convince anyone, go convince yourself by doing the homework.


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## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

Keoki said:


> I have a similar experience, I was about to pull the trigger on a set od Enve 6.7 after hearing about their hype, but when I've tested them for 2 weeks, I can say that they are just hype and nothing more. They flex like hell on the climbs and on sprints (rubbing the brakes), not that much lighter than the competition and they cost more for no apparent reason.
> 
> My 2009 Zipp 404 Zedtech was stiffer and lighter and less expensive than the POS overpriced Enve's.
> 
> Simon Smart should really change hos name... To Simon Stupid.


I think it was an article about zipp wheels wherein they stated they purposefully build flex into their wheels...because a too-stiff wheel causes brake rub and customers then complain about flex. So you might want to actually check if the Enve's are really so flex.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

I agree with your conclusion. 

What I mean by "auto steer" is actual torque on the handlebar with the zipp front in big gusts. With the enve's there remains the normal amount of push in cross winds but without the actual torque. I've never felt this phenomena on any other wheelset. Admittedly, this only happens in big cross wind gusts.


tvad said:


> We are observing different results with different Zipp wheels. One could expect crosswind improvement moving from the 45mm Zipp 303 to the 35mm front wheel of the Enve 3.4.
> 
> On the other hand, the 32mm Zipp 202 wheel is a closer comparison to the Enve 3.4 35mm front wheel.
> 
> I don't know what front wheel auto-steer means.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

The new freehub mechanics for the Zipp rear wheel is interesting, too; apparently leads to a completely silent freehub during coasting. There's pros and cons to that, I know, but interesting nevertheless. I don't want an 808, but when they expand their offerings to 404s and/or 303s, I might bite.

Oh, and no more decals, either; décor is painted on. Nice.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Interesting. As a 115 lb rider, I think I'm qualify to say a thing or two about crosswind effect on the front wheel. First of all, "aero" wheels to me start at around the 50mm depth. Depth, more than anything, determines the bulk of the benefit of an aero wheelset. The zipp 202 and Enve 3.4 front wheels are easy to control, they don't affect me that much (and because of that, I doubt that they are really all that beneficial).

Now the Zipp 303, with its 45mm depth, is where I really start to notice the crosswind. I can't ride no-handed on the 303 much unless there is absolutely zero wind! And the zipp 404? I had given up on these completely as it is quite tiring riding them because I have to fight the front wheel pretty much every second I ride it. The Enve 6.7 is about the same as the 404 when it comes to crosswind, maybe a tad worse (at least that is my experience).

I have since sold off the 303, 404, and 6.7 clinchers.., and bought the Dura Ace 9000 C50 tubular. The C50 is 50mm deep, so it sits between the 303 and 404. However, the C50 has been an absolutely dream for me in regards to crosswinds. I can even ride no-handed a lot of times without fearing a crash in the back of my mind. Shimano got it absolutely right with their DA 9000 C50 tubular (I haven't tried the C50 clinchers so I can't comment on it). DA hubs are quite and smooth, and these wheelset roll fast. No more spoke creaking like my 303. No more side-to-side freeplay like a lot of them zipp 303s & 404s.

And guess what, I got the C50 tubular for under $1000 brand new. So excuse me while I giggle a bit at the $3500 price tag of these new zipps and enves. $3500 are you effin kiddin me?? Unless you're racing for money, nobody has any business buying these. I know....


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

115 lbs? How tall are you?


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

jnbrown said:


> 115 lbs? How tall are you?


Imagine 4'6". 

Now imagine 6'6".

You're welcome.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

a hair over 5'7". 115 lbs is my weight in the morning, before eating breakfast, but hydrated. In the evening after dinner, i'm usally around 118 lbs.


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## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

aclinjury said:


> a hair over 5'7". 115 lbs is my weight in the morning, before eating breakfast, but hydrated. In the evening after dinner, i'm usally around 118 lbs.


Eat more. You're a waif.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

aclinjury said:


> a hair over 5'7". 115 lbs is my weight in the morning, before eating breakfast, but hydrated. In the evening after dinner, i'm usally around 118 lbs.


Dude, you're underweight. 

Correct Weight for Height

BMI Calculator (be certain to enter your age as well as height and weight to get a proper result)

Re-think your diet.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

tvad said:


> Dude, you're underweight.
> 
> Correct Weight for Height
> 
> ...


According to the BMI calculator you linked to, he is almost exactly on the border between "mild thinness" and "normal". So yeah, he's on the lightweight side, but given that we otherwise know exactly nothing about this person, I do not see any justification for telling him what to eat. But maybe that's just me.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Pirx said:


> *I do not see any justification for telling him what to eat.* But maybe that's just me.


Mr. Prix, as someone who is fast to jump on folks for lack of reading comprehension, you should know better. At no time did I tell him _what_ to eat. Try again, and read more carefully.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Hah, now this one is really going to bake your noodle: I did know better my friend.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Pirx said:


> Hah, now this one is really going to bake your noodle: I did know better my friend.


Bzzz...try again.


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

aclinjury said:


> I have since sold off the 303, 404, and 6.7 clinchers.., and bought the Dura Ace 9000 C50 tubular. The C50 is 50mm deep, so it sits between the 303 and 404. However, the C50 has been an absolutely dream for me in regards to crosswinds. I can even ride no-handed a lot of times without fearing a crash in the back of my mind. Shimano got it absolutely right with their DA 9000 C50 tubular (I haven't tried the C50 clinchers so I can't comment on it). DA hubs are quite and smooth, and these wheelset roll fast. No more spoke creaking like my 303. No more side-to-side freeplay like a lot of them zipp 303s & 404s.


Different series, but I also have DA 7950 C50 clinchers. They definitely feel the wind, much more so than my 404's do.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Zipp 404 NSW: faster, more stable and coasting on magnets - BikeRadar





(looks like they're pushing the more stable part)

404 version is out.


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

Dammit, oh well, it was nice to have the "latest and greatest" Firestrike for a while at least...
Will be interesting to see how these new freewheels hold up after some use.


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## Keoki (Feb 13, 2012)

More reason not to buy Slow ass Enve/Edge....


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

Keoki said:


> More reason not to buy Slow ass Enve/Edge....


i know you hate em... but they are not slow. I feel my 6.7 are faster then a pair of 404's. I do think the Zipps brake a little better (fire strikes) Maybe the NSW's will be faster ?? who knows.


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## Keoki (Feb 13, 2012)

spdntrxi said:


> i know you hate em... but they are not slow. I feel my 6.7 are faster then a pair of 404's. I do think the Zipps brake a little better (fire strikes) Maybe the NSW's will be faster ?? who knows.


They are already slower than my 404 F and 808 R combo. I was in the market for a pair of Enve 6.7 due to the hype, but after 2 weeks of test riding them... They suck.. They don't even have the brains to make their own hubs. They are Edge wheels, remember Edge wheels? Yeah, no one gave a **** about them before until the name change and more importantly copied the wheel profile simlar to Zipp and HED aka Simon Smart. The old Reynolds guys "Enve" will never bring you new hub tech design... Or wheel design.


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

you are entitled to your opinion.. mine is different as stated. 6.7 are faster then 404FC and handler better in strong crosswinds. I do love my Zipp Super9 disc though


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## TmB123 (Feb 8, 2013)

I'm not sure that comparing 2 x 404FC to a 6.7 combo is quite an apples to apples comparison. It's like comparing a 3.4 combo to a pair of 404's and saying the 3.4's are slower.

i guess the better comparison would be a 606 combo against the 6.7.


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

There is no apples to apples.. The 808 rear would be deeper then the 7 rear.. 404 is equal to the 6 front .. 58 vs 60.. Closest would be comparing 606 to a 6 front and 8 rear.. Which is not an off the shelf enve combo

That being said I preferred my 6.7 to a pair or 404 and a 606 combo. Offed my 404 and sold my 808 and got a super9.. So not a zipp hater.


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## kukula (Feb 23, 2008)

seriously you cant go wrong with either wheels. i've had 303s, 404s, and now currently run 4.5s with the CF hubs. I find their performance relatively similar. I've only had a couple hundred miles on the Enve though. IMHO at this price point any differences would be so subtle. The Enves are significantly lighter though


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## surfinguru (Jun 17, 2004)

.....


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

MMsRepBike said:


> 404 version is out.


Effin' awesome, I've been waiting for those!


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## sd5500 (Mar 25, 2012)

kukula said:


> seriously you cant go wrong with either wheels. i've had 303s, 404s, and now currently run 4.5s with the CF hubs. I find their performance relatively similar. I've only had a couple hundred miles on the Enve though. IMHO at this price point any differences would be so subtle. The Enves are significantly lighter though


How do you like your 4.5s? I have the same set with the Enve hubs also. Just put some Turbo Cottons on. Can't wait to race them!!


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## kukula (Feb 23, 2008)

sd5500 said:


> How do you like your 4.5s? I have the same set with the Enve hubs also. Just put some Turbo Cottons on. Can't wait to race them!!


I've only had about 250 miles on them so cant't really say much. Really looking forward to Spring so I can start riding again and see how they perform. How do you like the Turbo cottons? and can you tell me where you got them? After riding Veloflex and Vittorias for years I'm ready to try sometging new. Sadly Specialized online seem to always have them back ordered.


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## sd5500 (Mar 25, 2012)

kukula said:


> I've only had about 250 miles on them so cant't really say much. Really looking forward to Spring so I can start riding again and see how they perform. How do you like the Turbo cottons? and can you tell me where you got them? After riding Veloflex and Vittorias for years I'm ready to try sometging new. Sadly Specialized online seem to always have them back ordered.


I'm in western NY, so I've yet to be out on the wheels or tires 
I had to order them from a local shop that carries specialized. It took about 3 weeks for them to come in.

FYI, just saw they are available on the Specialized site, both sizes. I have the 26s.


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## kukula (Feb 23, 2008)

sd5500 said:


> I'm in western NY, so I've yet to be out on the wheels or tires
> I had to order them from a local shop that carries specialized. It took about 3 weeks for them to come in.
> 
> FYI, just saw they are available on the Specialized site, both sizes. I have the 26s.


I live in NY too. Long Island. Just had 6 inches of snow yday. Feels like the roads are perpetually covered in snow lol. Cant wait till spring. Thanks for the heads up on the Specialized site. I'll prolly get a pair just to try them. I just can't see myself making this as my go to price wuth that price lol. Now ill have to decide wether to get 24 or 26.


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## sd5500 (Mar 25, 2012)

kukula said:


> I live in NY too. Long Island. Just had 6 inches of snow yday. Feels like the roads are perpetually covered in snow lol. Cant wait till spring. Thanks for the heads up on the Specialized site. I'll prolly get a pair just to try them. I just can't see myself making this as my go to price wuth that price lol. Now ill have to decide wether to get 24 or 26.


Yeah, we've in real lucky this winter in Rochester. THese will be race day only wheels, so they should last the year. I'm gonna run S-Works Turbos on my everyday wheels.

Go 26mms for sure! They fit perfectly!


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