# fast(ish), inexpensive(ish), light(ish), steel bikes.



## Frith (Oct 3, 2002)

Yeah right! right?

I'm currently searching for something to replace my now aging and quickly falling out of favour 2003 Giant TCR composite.

I've rekindled my love for steel bikes over the last few years. I have an older lugged marinoni and plan on saving for a custom Bob Jackson. So the all day comfort steel bike is definitely covered.

In the meantime I want to replace my "fast" bike. Take the word "fast" with a pinch of salt, afterall, it'll be me riding the thing, so it's not going to be that "fast" at all . I guess that was my main problem with the TCR. Too twitchy, and while it flies when you want it too, I never really felt comfortable on it.

So I'm looking for something that matches my riding style a bit better. I'm thinking something Tig welded, with 105 or ultegra, a carbon fork. Semi-sloping is fine maybe.

Brands like Fuji, Jamis, and Kona can usually counted on for cost effective bikes so I'm waiting to see what they come out with for 2010. I've been searching the interbike galleries but of the thee I've only seen anything close from Kona.

Their Haole http://road.cc/content/news/6364-up...0-road-range-steel-singlespeeds-and-lots-more seems to match my needs perfectly. Although a quick search on these forums reveals almost 0 information from anyone who's tried last years model.

I hear the Gunnar roadie mentioned a lot and I think it might be a good option but they don't seem to have any dealers in Canada.

This bike jamis makes looks beautiful http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/thebikes/road/eclipse/09_eclipse_spec.html but again seems like another of those "VaporBikes" that no one actually ever sees in real life.

To make a long question even longer... are there any bikes you can list that have these characteristics and meet this comprimise?

I'd have thought it would be a growing segment of the market. (Guys like me who think their fast but really aren't  )


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## ccroy2001 (May 20, 2002)

*How about a frame?*

You could buy a Soma Smoothie or similar frame and tranfer all the stuff off the Giant and then sell the Giant frame on ebay or craigslist.

I like Kona Kapu frameset, I think it's $1000 this year frame and fork.

Chris


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## wooglin (Feb 22, 2002)

Frith said:


> This bike jamis makes looks beautiful http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/thebikes/road/eclipse/09_eclipse_spec.html but again seems like another of those "VaporBikes" that no one actually ever sees in real life.


I see one of those bikes often. My wife rides it. Good bike. 

What's wrong with the Marinoni? What's the difference between an "all day comfort bike" and a "fast bike"?


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## worst_shot_ever (Jul 27, 2009)

There's some used Lemonds out there in great condition still that you can get on the cheap. Used, so perhaps doesn't fit your criteria; I mention it only because that's what I did.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

plenty of used out there...


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## Frith (Oct 3, 2002)

wooglin said:


> What's wrong with the Marinoni? What's the difference between an "all day comfort bike" and a "fast bike"?


Haha that's a good question. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the Marinoni. It's currently in fixed gear form but I plan on switching that stuff out and putting it back to use as a proper road bike.

I agree totally that an older lugged bike (particularly one that was made from nice tubing like columbus SL) with a nice steel fork can go plenty fast, and conversely, a new carbon fiber racing machine can be comfortable for the whole day if it fits well. I guess I'm just trying to find a balance in a new bike. The benefit of modern tubes with some of the comfort and reliability that steel offers. 

I absolutely love the marinoni but the answer to your question really is that I don't ride my Marinoni in quite the same way as I ride my Giant... I approach them differently even though they're capable of more or less the same things. I'm after something to replace the Giant and the rides that I use it for if that makes any sense.

If there's anything wrong with it, it could be that it's just too pretty


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## Topher (Jun 5, 2005)

What about the Surly Pacer? I also think Masi has a few steel options - at least a tourer and cross bike.

You mentioned Bob Jackson - you can go to their UK site and order an off-the-peg frame (many model choices), with your choice of paint and decals for way less than custom, and less than a Gunnar frame and fork. They were really cheap a few months ago - not sure what the exchange rate has been doing lately though. 

Chris


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## Frith (Oct 3, 2002)

Thanks for the responses so far!
Perhaps instead of writing so much I should have been more specific about what I'm after.

A fairly light steel bike (853 or similar tubing)
Tig Welded
"Fast" geometry without being too twitchy or unstable.
Carbon fork.
Semi sloping top tube is fine so is traditional.
Not too expensive (not gonna set a budget just yet but looking for god value for money)
Frame only or 105/Ultegra mix (or just ultegra).

I like the looks of the Kona Haole. Does anyone know if there are any offerings from any other manufacturers for 2010 which are similar?


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Topher said:


> What about the Surly Pacer?


That could be nice... and Surly now offers 'em as both a frame and as a complete bike:

http://surlybikes.com/bikes/pacer_complete/
.


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## m_s (Nov 20, 2007)

Salsa Pistola:










Though tbh there's probably a lot of overlap with your marinoni, I would guess.


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## axebiker (Aug 22, 2003)

m_s said:


> Salsa Pistola:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


$2000+ is cheap?


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## Guinness2009 (Aug 28, 2009)

.............


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## rcnute (Dec 21, 2004)

Gunnar.


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## Frith (Oct 3, 2002)

m_s said:


> Salsa Pistola:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The salsa is exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for. To me there are worlds of difference between that and my Marinoni. 
I probably shouldn't have mentioned the other bikes... I was actually trying to imply that I didn't need another retro steel bike but somehow ended up comparing the two.
I'm actually more interested in comparing a modern steel bike to my Giant TCR as that's what it'll replace.
Thanks for the suggestion.


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## shinsplints (Oct 24, 2007)

How about this Thin Blue Line 853?

http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/bik/1397193094.html


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## george kraushaar (Jan 15, 2007)

The new Specialized Allez steel double has a very nice frame. Sell the cheap components and put your old existing parts. The whole bike is only $600.00.


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## Paul1PA (Sep 16, 2006)

I may have found the perfect bike for you! Check out the Rada by Voodoo Cycles. The Reynolds 853 tubing, semi-sloping TT, carbon fork and a "racy geometry that isn't too twitchy" all meet your requirements. 

One interesting feature is the carbon seat stays. While very common on Alum frames, fairly unusual for steel. Purists may argue a steel frame doesn't require the added vibration dampening. But, I think they compliment the carbon fork nicely while also providing a nice blend of retro and modern aesthetics: 









https://www.voodoocycles.net/rada.htm


Oh yeah, Speedgoat is currently having a sale on the Rada frameset. Good price since it includes the fork and full frame prep. But, you better act fast!

https://www.speedgoat.com/product.asp?part=145482&cat=35&brand=1005

Hope this helps,

Paul


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

worst_shot_ever said:


> There's some used Lemonds out there in great condition still that you can get on the cheap. Used, so perhaps doesn't fit your criteria; I mention it only because that's what I did.


+1. If age is important, consider a Lemond Sarthe. They were made until 2008 when Lemond was discontinued.


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

We have a Wilier Morzine in stock at the shop, Deda EOM 16.5 steel with carbon stays and fork. Painted in Lampre colors. It's used. In Roubaix by Roman Vainsteins. 54cm TT cc. PM me if you are interested. It's cheaper than you would think.


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## mriddle (Nov 16, 2005)

*De Rosa Corum*

Great steel frame.
Slope or no, your choice.
Custom, same $.
I bought one last winter and rode it all summer, really unbelievable ride.


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## axebiker (Aug 22, 2003)

Frith said:


> The salsa is exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for. To me there are worlds of difference between that and my Marinoni.
> I probably shouldn't have mentioned the other bikes... I was actually trying to imply that I didn't need another retro steel bike but somehow ended up comparing the two.
> I'm actually more interested in comparing a modern steel bike to my Giant TCR as that's what it'll replace.
> Thanks for the suggestion.


I just bought one two weeks ago... :thumbsup:


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

have a builder custom build one out of true temper OS or S3 tubing. Use the geometry of the Maronni. Postpone the Bob Jackson. There are builders that could build frame and fork for around $1100. Buy a complete bike and cobble parts, resale what you don't use. I just lost a chance to bid on a Bianchi with 2005 campy chorus carbon. Missed it by 8 minutes, complete bike sold for under $700, great thing to scavage from. half the fun is the challenge of the low budget build.


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## Comer (Jan 13, 2009)

What about the new Raleigh, it's cool as hell, $1800 with the new Ultegra.


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## vandalbob (Dec 13, 2001)

You mentioned the Kona Haole.....LBS guy rides one and loves it. It is his first steel road bike. Although it is a bit heavier, a Kona Honky Tonk may meet your needs? I've had one as my other bike for two months now and really enjoy it.


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## Christoph (Jul 10, 2009)

Thought I'd add a little personal research to this thead. If we're talkin' cheap steel frames, so far, it's looking like these three: 

1) Surly Pacer Frame Set (i.e. including fork). $410. Frame only weight: 4.65 (54cm)

2) Soma Smoothie Frame weight: 4 pounds (size?) $388. Fork=plus $139

3) Leader 722RS 2010 Road Frame. $249 FORK=plus $149 57cm frame weight=4.5 pounds

There seem to be lots of cheap steel single speed frames around. Too bad a few more haven't added a hanger--then the choices would be greatly increased. 

Anyone know of any other cheap steel road frames? Do tell. 

NOTE: steel isn't light, but, as with any material, you can find a lot of steel frames that are lighter than the ones above, but the price quickly goes up.


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

custom Gunnar built out of true temper still a good deal.


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## pcxmbfj (Nov 11, 2002)

*Looking for?*

I am of the same mind as you in thinking I want a new steel bike, Gunnar on radar, Voodoo seem to be value, but have been offered a TCR Composite 2006 unissued team fork, frame, and headset for $500. 

Does this seem to be a good price?


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## Kristatos (Jan 10, 2008)

The OP explained originally that the TCR was twitchy and rode nothing like steel (same way I'd describe a TCR I once owned) so if you are of the same mind you should avoid the TCR like the plague. 



pcxmbfj said:


> I am of the same mind as you in thinking I want a new steel bike, Gunnar on radar, Voodoo seem to be value, but have been offered a TCR Composite 2006 unissued team fork, frame, and headset for $500.
> 
> Does this seem to be a good price?


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## Bertrand (Feb 1, 2005)

What about a new Marinoni Piuma. Light, comfortable, fast, customizable, and really inexpensive compared to other customizable options.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

Specialized Allez Double Steel?

Crappy components, but at $610 you could afford some upgrades. Some may prefer brifters to the DT shifters.


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

Scooper said:


> Specialized Allez Double Steel?
> 
> Crappy components, but at $610 you could afford some upgrades. Some may prefer brifters to the DT shifters.


You could probably swap the crank, bb, brakes and derailleurs on that bike out with old shimano 600 parts and you'd be out less than 200 bucks. 'specially if you don't mind single pivot brakes.


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## garbec (Mar 3, 2006)

Check out the Torelli guys.... You can pick out your favorite color or do custom paint if you so desire...


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

Marinoni Piuma, De Rosa Corum, Carrera ?, Gio Compact pro, Colnago master x-light, Waterford, Prolitariat, Curtlo, Torelli, Mondonico, (check Smart cycles italian page for deals) all still selling steel.


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## Frith (Oct 3, 2002)

*Marinoni*

A few people have mentioned the Marinoni Piuma. Just to be clear this is now a Ti bike. The Piuma xpress is a steel front triangle and carbon rear.
The Sportive is really their only all steel road bike even though it's more of an Audax style bike. 

It's my opinion that that Marinoni is really letting the ball slip in the market for steel bikes (Where they were once a shining star). They really should ditch the mixed materials gimmick and focus again on making steel bikes. A light guage all steel bike in particular is missing from their lineup and it wouldn't also hurt to include at least one lugged variant for those who were fans of their bikes in decades past. 

I'm pretty sure these can be made to order if you talk to them so it's really only their marketing team that's letting them down.

BTW I say this while owning 2 of their bikes and a third which I recently bought for my girlfriend.


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## laffeaux (Dec 12, 2001)

Christoph said:


> Anyone know of any other cheap steel road frames? Do tell.


Others have mentioned looking at used frames. Have you considered that?

I have two lighter (sub 4 lb.) steel frames that I have purchased used for relatively cheap off of eBay. If you know what you're looking for, and have time to wait for the "right" frame at the "right" price, there are deals to be found.


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

One of the Soma offerings. Lugged Tange Prestige and move the components from the Giant. Ebay or Craigslist the TCR.


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## Srexy (Oct 25, 2005)

Just pulled the trigger myself on a Soma Smoothie "road race". Will be xferring components off an old Supergo special when it arrives. 4lbs, < $350 shipped... so it definitely satisfies 2 of your stipulations. We'll see if it satisfies the 1st!


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## Christoph (Jul 10, 2009)

Srexy said:


> Just pulled the trigger myself on a Soma Smoothie "road race". Will be xferring components off an old Supergo special when it arrives. 4lbs, < $350 shipped... so it definitely satisfies 2 of your stipulations. We'll see if it satisfies the 1st!


Post some pics when you get it built up.


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## opusair (Sep 15, 2005)

Frith said:


> A few people have mentioned the Marinoni Piuma. Just to be clear this is now a Ti bike. The Piuma xpress is a steel front triangle and carbon rear.
> The Sportive is really their only all steel road bike even though it's more of an Audax style bike.


When I go to the Marinoni site for the Piuma Xpress, there is a box at the bottom that says the all steel Piuma is still available using Columbus Spirit tubing.

I'd never have noticed except I've been spending too much time on the site and just ordered a Sportivo Ti.


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## farva (Jun 24, 2005)

Specialized Allez Comp/Elite Cr-Mo circa 2004 is one of my favorite steel frames & they can often be found pretty cheap on ebay. Weighs about 3.5 lbs, has modern geometry, subtle graphics, & uses 1 1/8" steerer forks. Unfortunately Specialized stopped making them in 2004.


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## Voodoochile (Apr 10, 2009)

I posted a thread about this a couple weeks ago. I want one of these. I think this is a "diamond in the ruff".

Hey I just saw a bunch of Guerciotti Record Strada frames at Total Cycling. These are Columbus Thron frames for what seems to be a great deal these days in size's 53 54 55 56 57 and all colors.
Looks like a pretty good deal for Price: $550
https://www.totalcycling.com/index.php/product/parts_accessories/frames_guerciotti/
If I would have seen these before I picked up my NOS Casati I probably would have bought one so I figured some guys may be interested in checking these out since steel frames are so hard to come by. I have also bought stuff from Total Cycling with no problem other than they didn't have the bars I ordered which delayed the order for an extra 2 weeks. I know some guys were looking for low priced steel frames, so here you go.

•Traditional lugged steel frame hand made in Italy from Columbus Thron tubing 
•Internal brake cable route 
•Supplied with 1 inch threaded forks 
•Chrome finished drop outs 
•130mm rear axle spacing 
•Brazed on front derailleur tab, down tube cable stops and dual bottle cage bosses 
•Requires Italian bottom bracket 
•Requires 1" threaded headset 
•Weight - 2040g - 2200g for 51cm to 57cm frames, 690g forks
There's even more colors than these.


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## boneman (Nov 26, 2001)

*Lemond Zurich*

Fits almost all your requirements listed earlier. Only used if that makes a difference. Well made and can be had cheap. Geometry for me is fine. Nice handling, great cornering machine. I got mine in pretty good condition for $350. The don't have the most durable paint, it chips and nicks pretty easy, if that's a priority.

I've bought 3 Lemonds in the past few years, the Zurich, a carbon spine Maillot Jaune and a Team Saturn Ti. They are all great value used as the pricing is pretty low. Haha, no cachet if that matters which it does to a lot of people.


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## Voodoochile (Apr 10, 2009)

Hey Boneman,
Are you stocking up frames to sell to all of us in ten years or so when all the good ones are gone but not forgotten?


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## boneman (Nov 26, 2001)

*Lol*

Yeah, that's probably about right, I'll be 67 and will no doubt be cutting back the fleet. It actually happens whenever I move back to the States. In 2005 I was back there for a few months and sold a few frames, saddles and pedals. No doubt the same will happen at some point in the next few years as well.



Voodoochile said:


> Hey Boneman,
> Are you stocking up frames to sell to all of us in ten years or so when all the good ones are gone but not forgotten?


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## Voodoochile (Apr 10, 2009)

Edmundtan gave me this nice lead yesterday. Tons of tigged and lugged steel frames here. Some NOS and some used. WOW!
http://www.matuzmaster.hu/en/vintage-frames/


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## LeaderBike (Nov 7, 2003)

722RS 50cm frame is 4lb 2oz

LB Team


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## Srexy (Oct 25, 2005)

Pic of Smoothie built up with components from my old Scattante R650 frame. Went pretty smoothly overall.

20lbs dead with the Ultegra gruppo and generic Weyless Korso wheelset. With some diligence it could easily break 19 but at this price-point - who cares?

I've got white bar-tape in hand and the option to order a nice white saddle. Should I leave the cockpit black or go for blingy white?


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## bane (Aug 30, 2006)

white tape and saddle would look pretty cool, I think


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## arshak (Jun 13, 2005)

Check out these guys. Custom hand crafted bikes from taiwan.
http://www.rikulau.com/rikulau_english/products/Road_Reynolds853_Xochitl/zoom.php?L1=A&L2=B&L3=03


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

worst_shot_ever said:


> There's some used Lemonds out there in great condition still that you can get on the cheap. Used, so perhaps doesn't fit your criteria; I mention it only because that's what I did.


Ever since Trek gave Greg the boot, Lemond's bike prices have been soaring. I agree they USED to be a good deal they aren't anymore.


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