# Lance and Bruyneel are going down fast



## TheDon (Feb 3, 2006)

Huge WSJ article on doping. It sounds like the feds will have Lance by the balls in no time flat

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704911704575326753200584006.html


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703964104575334812419976690.html


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## elcameron (Aug 10, 2002)

"Positively False" 
Which way did he go? which way did he go? The dude needs to ride more and talk less.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

Nah. Nothing's going to happen. Except for Landis appearing like a scorned lover.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Case of the missing bikes? LOL 

Many, many teams have long sold their bikes, mostly at the end of the season. This is nothing new, just Landis trying to make something out of nothing and something for the Lance haters to jump on...at least those that know nothing about cycling.


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## jeff262 (Dec 19, 2005)

What Landis has done is provide a large amount of information that will be followed up on. I think this is just the begining. There are lots of papers and magazines to be sold by looking deeper into what Armstrong and company were up to.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

The plot/blood thickens.


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## TheDon (Feb 3, 2006)

Wookiebiker said:


> Case of the missing bikes? LOL
> 
> Many, many teams have long sold their bikes, mostly at the end of the season. This is nothing new, just Landis trying to make something out of nothing and something for the Lance haters to jump on...at least those that know nothing about cycling.


The problem is these rides went missing during the season and they can develop a trail for the missing bikes which means they (the feds) can trace the money and someone will have to be responsible for the bikes that just up and disappeared in the middle of a season. The feds are now sniffing around paper trails and that is more than just he said she said now.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

TheDon said:


> The problem is these rides went missing during the season and they can develop a trail for the missing bikes which means they (the feds) can trace the money and someone will have to be responsible for the bikes that just up and disappeared in the middle of a season. The feds are now sniffing around paper trails and that is more than just he said she said now.


Exactly. Many teams sell stuff off at the end of the season especially if they are changing sponsors/suppliers. But mid season is just weird unless there is something underhand going on. By that I don't mean funding doping rather bikes going "missing" and being sold under the counter by staff for personal gain. But my knowledge of that is only related to lower division teams with ropey practices wrt paying staff.


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Oh...well Chad Gerlach has weighed in....from his posh home in the back of a 7/22 dumpster. Lotsa credibilty there.

Who's Floyd going to use for his next source of backup? Edwardo, a street bum from Prato Nevoso?


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

TheDon said:


> Huge WSJ article on doping. It sounds like the feds will have Lance by the *ball* in no time flat


Fixed it for you :thumbsup:


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## JimT (Jul 18, 2007)

Wonder how much money they make with the articles and intertviews...


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

RkFast said:


> Oh...well Chad Gerlach has weighed in....from his posh home in the back of a 7/22 dumpster. Lotsa credibilty there.
> 
> Who's Floyd going to use for his next source of backup? Edwardo, a street bum from Prato Nevoso?



So credibility is related to financial level, interesting then there are some drug lords that must be some of the most credible people in the world.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

Wookiebiker said:


> Case of the missing bikes? LOL
> 
> Many, many teams have long sold their bikes, mostly at the end of the season. This is nothing new, just Landis trying to make something out of nothing and something for the Lance haters to jump on...at least those that know nothing about cycling.


Further, the story makes Landis come off as a jerk to call Trek vs. going through Bruyneel. What a tool.

And from reading the story, it makes it sound as if most of those 'missing' bikes were purposely lightly used by Lance or other marquee riders before being sold. Not quite the smoking gun Landis makes it out to be.

While I think Landis certainly would have inside knowledge of Postal doping practices, his stories have just gotten wilder and wilder. It's awfully hard to separate the wheat from the chaff in his stories.


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## tinkerbeast (Jul 24, 2009)

TheDon said:


> Huge WSJ article on doping. It sounds like the feds will have Lance by the balls in no time flat
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704911704575326753200584006.html
> 
> ...


**ball**


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

jorgy said:


> And from reading the story, it makes it sound as if most of those 'missing' bikes were purposely lightly used by Lance or other marquee riders before being sold. Not quite the smoking gun Landis makes it out to be.
> 
> While I think Landis certainly would have inside knowledge of Postal doping practices, his stories have just gotten wilder and wilder. It's awfully hard to separate the wheat from the chaff in his stories.


Considering the fact that Armstrong does numerous fundraisers for Livestrong...and many athletes use an article of clothing once then auction it off, or in the case of cyclists...bikes, clothing and other equipment to raise money for their cause...this again is nothing new. If the bikes were gone, it will be easily explainable by the those involved. It's not like these guys are idiots, they have covered their butts and have been doing it for a decade or longer.

Do I honestly think that's what was going on...No, but then I don't think anybody in the peloton is clean...but Lance isn't going to be brought down by this. Landis is just making a fool of himself, right or wrong.

All kinds of crap goes on behind the scenes in every sport that people don't really want to hear about. Other sports are just smarter to not let it get to the front page so it doesn't hurt their sport, sponsors and athletes.

Such is life...the Lance haters would rather try and ruin the sport for everybody to boost their own egos and get their name in the limelight again than admit the sport is riddled with drugs (by all athletes involved), always has been and always will be...Just like every other sport out there.


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## 3rensho (Aug 26, 2003)

I'd think that the Wall St. Journal would check sources and verify at least SOME of this, no?

This isn't a story published on some idiot's blog. While I don't really respect the WSJ based on their owners, but it's hard to deny their credibility. I'm surprised so many of you would dismiss this so quickly.

I'm going back up to the concession stand for more popcorn, I think Act 2 is about to start...


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

TheDon said:


> Huge WSJ article on doping. It sounds like the feds will have Lance by the balls in no time flat
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704911704575326753200584006.html
> 
> ...


The real revelation of the story is that Lance was driving while barely stopping at the stop signs, and that he and the team would go to strip clubs to celebrate. I hope Feds investigate these allegations, quick!


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## covenant (May 21, 2002)

3rensho said:


> I'd think that the Wall St. Journal would check sources and verify at least SOME of this, no?
> 
> This isn't a story published on some idiot's blog. While I don't really respect the WSJ based on their owners, but it's hard to deny their credibility. I'm surprised so many of you would dismiss this so quickly.


*Appeal to authority*


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

55x11 said:


> The real revelation of the story is that Lance was driving while barely stopping at the stop signs, and that he and the team would go to strip clubs to celebrate. I hope Feds investigate these allegations, quick!


I remember one time I was in the strip club and I had 3 or 4 fine peelers hanging on me and my friends, prying worn singles from my wallet. Then suddenly they all disappeared, like some skank-killing neutron bomb had been detonated. WTF? I was outraged and hurt so I went to see where they had all went.

Over in the corner surrounded by a small army of someone's daughters, was Sting and some friends. He was single-handedly responsible for the migration of at least 60 strippers.

I saw him later in the bathroom and told him I thought he was awesome in that Frankenstein movie.

Wait, what was my point? Oh yeah, who gives a toss about some missing bikes and a few strippers? Unless someone has video of Bruyneel feeding Armstrong a big bowl of baby hearts, it's all just noise.


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## viciouscycle (Aug 22, 2009)

According to Floyd, in training camp, 2004, he was able to chase LA up the hills, faster than the rest of the team who was doping.....so why dope?


He found strip clubs in Texas...Golly Gee Mister Rodgers, whats that?

They can afford a private jet, but then they have to sell bikes to buy their dope....

The owners approve of their doping, but then give them no cash to help them out?


Either that article was written in jest...or they made Floyd to look like a stupid ass clown. He walks out of church and got on a bike to ride with Lance..


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Unintentionally hilarious- the best kind. At least make up plausible lies, otherwise I feel you just don't respect our intelligence Floyd. First the absurd Lance bribed the UCI and then EMAILED Floyd to brag about it claim, now this. Wonder if these behaviors are a result of the very long term Doping Floyd admitted too? Several dopers flames out very badly now.


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

Make fun of his credibility all you want but there are a number of claims made that will be easy to verify in the investigation.

Vaughters and Andreau will almost certainly tell everything they know and jackboots knocking at a few other doors will almost certainly shake a few more loose.
The FBI getting involved changes everything, though they certainly have credibility issues of their own, just because lying to them carries much greater penalties than BSing the USADA, etc.

I assume Ferrari has wiped his HDs, especially post Conconi trial and his own, but if other police get involved there are a lot of targets to tighten the noose. LA is arrogant enough to think he will get away with it forever but I really hope he is doing some planning on how to deal with it on the cancer front so it doesn't totally destroy the good he's done there.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

ultimobici said:


> Exactly. Many teams sell stuff off at the end of the season especially if they are changing sponsors/suppliers. But mid season is just weird unless there is something underhand going on.


Trek and many other bike manufacturers often introduced new bikes at the TDF, which is mid-season. It would not surprise me at all that any team sold bikes around that time. The sponsor wants you to race the new bikes, not the old ones.


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

terzo rene said:


> Make fun of his credibility all you want but there are a number of claims made that will be easy to verify in the investigation.
> 
> Vaughters and Andreau will almost certainly tell everything they know and jackboots knocking at a few other doors will almost certainly shake a few more loose.
> The FBI getting involved changes everything, though they certainly have credibility issues of their own, just because lying to them carries much greater penalties than BSing the USADA, etc.
> ...


What is he getting away with, exactly? Offending your sensibilities isn't a federal crime. 

Novitsky went through BALCO's trash every weekend for a year, it's been 7 years since Barry Bonds may or may not have perjured himself, and it hasn't gone to trial yet. So everyone hoping for a trial and a conviction prior to the Alps stages need to pump their brakes.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

viciouscycle said:


> According to Floyd, in training camp, 2004, he was able to chase LA up the hills, faster than the rest of the team who was doping.....so why dope?
> 
> 
> He found strip clubs in Texas...Golly Gee Mister Rodgers, whats that?
> ...


Bingo!


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## ragweed (Jan 2, 2009)

Given the team was funded by the USPS I wonder if they weren't accountable to auditors? If so then having an alternative source of cash that was off the books seems like a plausible scenario. (And I don't mean to imply I believe Floyd.)


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

ragweed said:


> Given the team was funded by the USPS I wonder if they weren't accountable to auditors? If so then having an alternative source of cash that was off the books seems like a plausible scenario. (And I don't mean to imply I believe Floyd.)


They'd need to be in on it or it would have been discovered long ago. I'd doubt there would be a $ for doping section on the books.


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

spade2you said:


> Bingo!


The jet is leased to Livestrong.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

The Treks pay the dope and the yellow bracelets pay the jet! 

As for the bikes being sold, Trek knew and commented that they thought it was weird...

I find pretty much all these claims pretty believable personally.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

JohnHemlock said:


> What is he getting away with, exactly? Offending your sensibilities isn't a federal crime.
> 
> Novitsky went through BALCO's trash every weekend for a year, it's been 7 years since Barry Bonds may or may not have perjured himself, and it hasn't gone to trial yet. So everyone hoping for a trial and a conviction prior to the Alps stages need to pump their brakes.


Agreed. Federal investigations take a loo-ooo-oong time.
And in the end they would need hard evidence. Money trail, bank statements, receipts, DNA, photos, videos. Armstrong was quite well-off and could have easily financed his doping regime with his own money (how much was he getting in endorsements?). I doubt selling a few bikes on ebay would raise the needed amount anyways. 

Going around and asking random riders questions like:"Have you doped? have you seen other riders dope?" is not going to cut it. They need something more specific than that. So far I have not seen much from anything Landis mentioned. If "missing bikes" is the best angle he got, I have a feeling not much will come from this. Assuming of course Postal management was smart and didn't send out memos to all along the lines of: "Need to sell 8 more TREKs by the end of the month to finance Lance's transfusions".


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## Bee-an-key (May 5, 2007)

As to Lance's response. Yes Floyd has lied to us and that creates confusion of what to believe. But, if Floyd came out after testing positive, manned up and said "yeah I did it and so does LA, JB......" Lance would have tried to discredit him then for other reasons. Lance has tried to discredit former team memebers, former employess, writers, rivals, the French,.....for years, nothing new. I think Floyd is a bit crazy, but I think he is hitting some nerves pretty close and there may be some confirmation coming from other rides. You can point fingers at Floyd and talk about what his motivation is, but, Lance being the biggest name in the sport has the motivation to lie more than anyone else, he has more to loose than anyone else.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

Dan Gerous said:


> I find pretty much all these claims pretty believable personally.


I find most of the claims -- but not all -- believable as well. But frankly I could care less. Virtually the entire peloton was doped during the time in question. Anyone honestly think Oscar Pereiro -- who took the overall in 2006 after Landis was DQ'd -- didn't take a little something too? I mean please. The only remarkable thing about this article is that a paper like the WSJ would actually report something like this based on one witness with HORRIBLE credibility.


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

JohnHemlock said:


> What is he getting away with, exactly? Offending your sensibilities isn't a federal crime.
> 
> Novitsky went through BALCO's trash every weekend for a year, it's been 7 years since Barry Bonds may or may not have perjured himself, and it hasn't gone to trial yet. So everyone hoping for a trial and a conviction prior to the Alps stages need to pump their brakes.


Obviously I was referring to doping, which really shouldn't be a crime in my book, but when it comes to contract fraud with the USPS criminal charges are a possibility.

The Trek response on the bikes certainly did seem to be trying to distance themselves as much as they could, which was an interesting data point to me.

But mostly I find myself wondering how Fillipo Simeoni is feeling these days......


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Bee-an-key said:


> As to Lance's response. Yes Floyd has lied to us and that creates confusion of what to believe. But, if Floyd came out after testing positive, manned up and said "yeah I did it and so does LA, JB......" Lance would have tried to discredit him then for other reasons. Lance has tried to discredit former team memebers, former employess, writers, rivals, the French,.....for years, nothing new. I think Floyd is a bit crazy, but I think he is hitting some nerves pretty close and there may be some confirmation coming from other rides. You can point fingers at Floyd and talk about what his motivation is, but, Lance being the biggest name in the sport has the motivation to lie more than anyone else, he has more to loose than anyone else.


Unfortunately, Floyd simply has no credibility. The sad part is that he might be dead on, although I'd agree a team like US Postal wouldn't need to sell bikes to finance such a thing.


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## badge118 (Dec 26, 2002)

Why is it that whenever allegations are made about Armstrong doping with no independant evidence its seen as the nail in the coffin? 

There were people in numerous civil cuits claiming to be witnesses to stuff directly (statements made by lance, seeing paraphernalia etc). There have been numerous people claiming to have seen indirect evidence (the infamous refrigerated motorcycle etc.) NONE of this however has ever gone further than either law suits won by Lance or investigations closed with no action.

Unless Landis pulls the pciture out of his butt (time and date stamped) of the motorcycle he claimed to have had this is going to be seen in the end as a bitter angry guy, jealous at the fact that other contemporary north american riders are still at the top level and he was having trouble making it with OUCH.

Additionally the feds will likely NEVER get past a preliminary investigation phase. This is not a doping investigation, its a CRIMINAL investigation rather and that means to just make an arrest they need probable cause and to convict Beyond a reasonable doubt. Sorry but there is NO prosecutor on the planet that would base a case on Landis' testimony. He comes off as too much of the bitter angry guy I noted above. He talks about things that would require conspiracies of International scope (the whole bribing the UCI thing) and more. I am sure he will be interviewed. They will interview some other people and then put it in the circular file.


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

i like our credibility


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## cheddarlove (Oct 17, 2005)

What gets me is cycling isn't even a big sport! It is to us but BFD!
Compared to football,tennis,soccer,basketball and baseball, it's near the bottom of the American sports ladder. I think the majority of Americans hate cyclists ("they always run stop signs! Every single one of them day in and day out!") so I can never figure out why it is such huge news when someone blabs about all the dopers in cycling! 
Why do they even care? I get so tired of explaining things to non cyclists that ask me about it that would otherwise never say a word about it if the head lines didn't seem to constantly be about doping! 
The best I can say is that the history of doping and cheating goes back to the beginning when the racers took trains! And if Lance Armstrong is convicted and asked to return his jerseys, who would the organizers give it to? 
Even Jean Marie LaBlanc said that if Lance did dope, most likely the 9 racers below him were also doped.
Didn't FloydFloyd Null and Void and the WSJ time this perfectly? Do you think the WSJ paid him? I do! Or maybe he paid them?  
I wish none of this doping drama ever started!


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

"[Landis] got five brand-new bikes to start the season, the same new bikes as everybody else," Bruyneel told Reilly. "But he got mad because he only got five. 'Lance gets more,' he said. Yes, Lance gets more because he's Lance. What's the difference? You can only ride one bike at a time."


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## badge118 (Dec 26, 2002)

cheddarlove said:


> What gets me is cycling isn't even a big sport! It is to us but BFD!
> Compared to football,tennis,soccer,basketball and baseball, it's near the bottom of the American sports ladder. I think the majority of Americans hate cyclists ("they always run stop signs! Every single one of them day in and day out!") so I can never figure out why it is such huge news when someone blabs about all the dopers in cycling!
> Why do they even care? I get so tired of explaining things to non cyclists that ask me about it that would otherwise never say a word about it if the head lines didn't seem to constantly be about doping!
> The best I can say is that the history of doping and cheating goes back to the beginning when the racers took trains! And if Lance Armstrong is convicted and asked to return his jerseys, who would the organizers give it to?
> ...



I think the reason why cycling fans make such a big deal out of doping, vs other sports, is that many cyclists actually bicycle. How many fans in the US play football, baseball or basketball every week? How about even golf? 

Since more American cycling fans bicycle vs the fans of these other sports it does have an effect. How many times have you heard someone on a group ride say "if I had only discovered cycling when I was a kid I might have made a career of it" and the like. Many look at the pros and then transplant themselves into those positions, they then then sit there and see the dope and get angry because they draw the extension from their fantasy and say "I could have made a career of it without the dope." 

When its easier to project your own fantasies and desires on a pro-sport because you participate in it, you also find it easier to freak out over things to a greater extent. Its not that fans of other sports support doping in the sports they love, its just that since they do not participate actively in the sport they do not see themselves as having a vested interest in such things so annoyance doesn't rise to the level of righteous (or as the case may be self-righteous) anger.


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## tricycletalent (Apr 2, 2005)

Coolhand said:


> Unintentionally hilarious- the best kind. At least make up plausible lies, otherwise I feel you just don't respect our intelligence Floyd. First the absurd Lance bribed the UCI and then EMAILED Floyd to brag about it claim, now this. Wonder if these behaviors are a result of the very long term Doping Floyd admitted too? Several dopers flames out very badly now.


He is such a sucker for attention, I don't think he gives a damn, whether he tells lies or truths. Actually, I wonder if this will support Lance more than anything, once again, nobody can pin him.


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## a_avery007 (Jul 1, 2008)

the Fed's will catch them...In what lifetime mates???

just like they caught the Ceo's ,their respective Boards, Auditors and Lawyers that worked for the Energy, Telecom's, Airlines, Financial and Banking companies...LOLOLOL

this will ALL go away-soon and why let the Truth get in the way of a good story anyhow....


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

a_avery007 said:


> the Fed's will catch them...In what lifetime mates???


I think the Feds will find Jimmy Hoffa's body first.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

jorgy said:


> Further, the story makes Landis come off as a jerk to call Trek vs. going through Bruyneel. What a tool.
> 
> And from reading the story, it makes it sound as if most of those 'missing' bikes were purposely lightly used by Lance or other marquee riders before being sold. Not quite the smoking gun Landis makes it out to be.
> 
> While I think Landis certainly would have inside knowledge of Postal doping practices, his stories have just gotten wilder and wilder. It's awfully hard to separate the wheat from the chaff in his stories.


He had already went through Bruyneel and didn't get a new bike.

So where are the bikes? He had a right to know. 

Better yet, just buy him a damn new bike and he would have shut up.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

cheddarlove said:


> What gets me is cycling isn't even a big sport! It is to us but BFD!
> Compared to football,tennis,soccer,basketball and baseball, it's near the bottom of the American sports ladder. I think the majority of Americans hate cyclists ("they always run stop signs! Every single one of them day in and day out!") so I can never figure out why it is such huge news when someone blabs about all the dopers in cycling!


Because in the big scheme of things - ie the world - cycling is a far bigger sport than it is in "English" speaking parts of the world. 
In Italy there is a one day Fondo for regular cyclists called Maratona dles Dolomiti. 9000 take part on totally closed roads. Even if you're on a bike the Carabinieri will pull you off the course if you aren't a registered rider. The whole event is televised live on national TV, not as a side story but with proper moto cameras & helicopter coverage.
They still argue about Coppi & Bartoli 40 years after Coppi's death. These aren't "bikies" but regular "man in the street" types.
Years ago a friend and I were riding along Lake Como when a battered Fiat with 4 twentysomething lads inside pulled alongside us. In England I'd be looking for an escape route, yet all we heard was a machine-gun of Italian which we didn't understand. When they realised we were English we were quizzed, 
"Where you been?", 
"Mandelo de Lario"
"Where you go?" 
"Varenna"
"And then?"
"Lugano"
"And then?"
"Home"
"Ah, Inglesi pussies!! Ciao!"
Europe is a place where, unlike the US or the UK, you're not weird if you wear lycra and ride a bike. You can drop into a swish restaurant or bar in full kit without any fuss at all, because it is as ingrained in the culture as baseball is in the US.
That's why the Tour is the biggest annual sporting event in the world. The prologue in Rotterdam had 500,000 along the route alone. Day two and three were estimated to be pushing 1M. At 500,000 a day makes it 10.5M just along the route. Add in 10M a day tuning in on TV and you're up to 220M+ overall!
That's why many European countries have criminal legislation in place to tackle doping. Why else do you think Ricco didn't appear at his trial in France or Rumsas let his wife languish in a French jail? There was a real threat of doing time.


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## Lazy Spinner (Aug 30, 2009)

Go to ESPN.com and read Rick Reilly's column. I know he and Lance are tight but he does seem to blow plenty of holes in Floyd's so-called "evidence".


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

bas said:


> He had already went through Bruyneel and didn't get a new bike.
> 
> So where are the bikes? He had a right to know.
> 
> Better yet, just buy him a damn new bike and he would have shut up.


"He got in a fight with the warehouse manager over [the derailleur failing]," Bruyneel said. "He'd been drinking. He drank too much. He drank every night during the tour. Some guys might have a glass of wine or two with dinner, but not three-quarters of a bottle of wine like he did. Not during the Tour."


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## Big-foot (Dec 14, 2002)

http://www.scribd.com/doc/24714691/L-A-Confidentiel-Part-I-English-Translation


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## ArkRider (Jul 27, 2007)

JohnHemlock said:


> "He got in a fight with the warehouse manager over [the derailleur failing]," Bruyneel said. "He'd been drinking. He drank too much. He drank every night during the tour. Some guys might have a glass of wine or two with dinner, but not three-quarters of a bottle of wine like he did. Not during the Tour."


Drunk every night of the Tour? I'm impressed.


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## DMFT (Feb 3, 2005)

Lazy Spinner said:


> Go to ESPN.com and read Rick Reilly's column. I know he and Lance are tight but he does seem to blow plenty of holes in Floyd's so-called "evidence".



- Rick is such an expert himself that he mentions Floyd suffering like a dog one day then implies he got wasted that night and then crushed it the following day aboard a "heap".

Does Rick know Floyd was riding a BMC when that took place?

- Just sayin'.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

Haha.. the strip club was called "Yellow Rose". Can't these guys tolerate ANY other color?

I really don't know what to think anymore???? Some day the truth WILL come out some way or another.


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## slegros (Sep 22, 2009)

Oops! Wrong spot!


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## slegros (Sep 22, 2009)

Big-foot said:


> http://www.scribd.com/doc/24714691/L-A-Confidentiel-Part-I-English-Translation


Thanks for posting that. I was curious about that book and read the 50 pages that were posted online. It was far from the smoking gun I thought it would be though. It meanders a lot and everything presented in the first 50 pages gives an idea of the culture, but nowhere in it does anyone directly say they saw Lance taking doping products. I actually find myself somewhat more inclined to think Lance may actually be clean or not have participated in doping to the same extent that other riders did after reading the first part. Lance comes off as highly driven and a bit ruthless, but hell anyone who's watched him on a bike can see that. I think for Lance to be convicted of doping it will take a 'smoking gun' - a failed control in competition with the results confirmed shortly afterwards to convict him, which is what it should take.

Any link to the rest of the book? (I looked but couldn't find it) I got through the first 50 pages.. I wouldn't mind finishing it!


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

slegros said:


> Thanks for posting that. I was curious about that book and read the 50 pages that were posted online. It was far from the smoking gun I thought it would be though. It meanders a lot and everything presented in the first 50 pages gives an idea of the culture, but nowhere in it does anyone directly say they saw Lance taking doping products. I actually find myself somewhat more inclined to think Lance may actually be clean or not have participated in doping to the same extent that other riders did after reading the first part. Lance comes off as highly driven and a bit ruthless, but hell anyone who's watched him on a bike can see that. I think for Lance to be convicted of doping it will take a 'smoking gun' - a failed control in competition with the results confirmed shortly afterwards to convict him, which is what it should take.
> 
> Any link to the rest of the book? (I looked but couldn't find it) I got through the first 50 pages.. I wouldn't mind finishing it!


Just go out and buy From Lance to Landis. Pretty much everything in LA Confidentiel plus a bit. And no legal proceesings were issued - strange, eh?


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

*McQuaid reveals Armstrong made two donations to the UCI*

This keeps getting better & better!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-reveals-armstrong-made-two-donations-to-the-uci





> *McQuaid reveals Armstrong made two donations to the UCI *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## ragweed (Jan 2, 2009)

Or from today's WSJ -- http://tinyurl.com/23qq5zc
_The U.S. criminal investigation, which is being led by the Food and Drug Administration, i*sn't aimed at prosecuting rank-and-file riders* who used performance-enhancing drugs during their careers, according to people familiar with the investigation. Rather, *it is designed to potentially bring charges against any team leaders and team directors who may have facilitated or encouraged doping by their riders.*
​_


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## 3rensho (Aug 26, 2003)

I'm glad someone bumped this thread. I just finished with the WSJ article. Sounds like the feds move MUCH faster than the UCI. I wonder what kind of donation it'd take to get Jeff Novitzky to go away and declare you above reproach. Probably a butt-load more than a paltry 125k. 

This is not looking good for anyone involved with managing US Postal/Discovery/RS. I mentioned a week ago that the WSJ usually does not print b^llsh!t. I think this should be taken seriously. If'n I were Levi, George or Tyler, I'd think long and hard about my loyalties and what those are worth before I spoke with someone from the feds. Those guys don't play. Ask Marion Jones.


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## a_avery007 (Jul 1, 2008)

the WSJ is avg at best or just plain pulp fiction at worst along with a coporate agenda.

yeah, the fed's are so good they kept Bond's from making millions, breaking the home run record ,and putting him in prison..lol 
NOT- he won't serve one second of prison time nor will they take a cent from him.

in ameriKa you get the kind of justice you pay for!

think how deep the pockets are of Lance and Co...


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

a_avery007 said:


> the WSJ is avg at best or just plain pulp fiction at worst along with a coporate agenda.
> 
> yeah, the fed's are so good they kept Bond's from making millions, breaking the home run record ,and putting him in prison..lol
> NOT- he won't serve one second of prison time nor will they take a cent from him.
> ...


Not half as deep as the pockets of Rupert Murdoch & NewsCorp  

Funny how multi Pulitzer prize winning newspapers and award garlanded sports writers become tabloids and hacks just because his Lanceness says so  

BTW Pat McQuaid just made a total hash of it by admitting there were actually _two_ donations from Armstrong - does that mean he was lying? I say his credibility is shot to hell. Now, were you to do a little digging into Pat's past you might realise that birds of a feather really do flock together :wink:


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## a_avery007 (Jul 1, 2008)

Murdoch is in the biz to sell papers, that is it! it is not journalism with integrity, just lots of rumors, inuendo, half-truths and a bit of ragged sensationalism...uk journalism at it's best..

primary sources- just look at the sources they cite...

no, i am not some LA fanboy, just best around the block, think world, enough times to know better...


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

a_avery007 said:


> Murdoch is in the biz to sell papers, that is it! it is not journalism with integrity, just lots of rumors, inuendo, half-truths and a bit of raggd sensationalism...uk journalism at it's best..
> 
> primary sources- just look at the sources they cite...
> 
> no, i am not some LA fanboy, just best around the block, think world, enough times to know better...


Just like Armstrong's in the business of selling Michelob and Leaf's and Livestrong accessories? Guessing that the issue of credibility here is an entirely subjective one :wink:

Do you really think that a newspaper like the WSJ, with a serious reputation to protect, would go to press with a story that they hadn't verified and corroborated? Why do you think publication was delayed for nearly a week? Or are they so confident that Armstrong won't sue - and if not why not> I thought he _always_ won and was vindicated (except for the times he isn't :smilewinkgrin


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## ronderman (May 17, 2010)

burgrat said:


> Fixed it for you :thumbsup:



hahahaha


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## a_avery007 (Jul 1, 2008)

thought we were discussing WSJ credibility...but, then again you tacked, again...

could care less about credibility, as i stated before; cyclists have always used performance enhancing chemicals, since it's inception-think coffee and tea to start. cyclists will continue to use performance enhancing chemistry to produce better results, ie amino acid chains, etc...

now back to topic, the fed's blow at anything remotely critical, unless you believe in fairytales and the movies...

this case is going nowhere, but will drag out forever, think Bond's case, what 6 years, oh, that is a fast and speedy trial, or the Exxon Valdez, 20 years and counting ,and they still have not paid anywhere near the original amount (actually $0) and will continue to appeal until everyone is dead...lol


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

JohnHemlock said:


> "He got in a fight with the warehouse manager over [the derailleur failing]," Bruyneel said. "He'd been drinking. He drank too much. He drank every night during the tour. Some guys might have a glass of wine or two with dinner, but not three-quarters of a bottle of wine like he did. Not during the Tour."


Thank GOD- and here I thought I didn't have any personal training regimen!:blush2: 
(substitute Belgian ale accordingly)


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## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

a_avery007 said:


> thought we were discussing WSJ credibility...but, then again you tacked, again...
> 
> could care less about credibility, as i stated before; cyclists have always used performance enhancing chemicals, since it's inception-think coffee and tea to start. cyclists will continue to use performance enhancing chemistry to produce better results, ie amino acid chains, etc...
> 
> ...


The 'case will drag on forever' argument is a) a nice comfort blanket and b) contrary to the truth - the combined weight of WADA, the Federal investigation, Interpol, the Gendarmerie and OCLAESP (yes, the 2009 Astana transfusion enquiry is still alive) rather suggests that, unlike previous _affaires de dopage_, information sharing and co-operation will speed things along nicely. Seems that some people - and those with the power to actually make a difference (regardless of their agenda) - are not compelled by the Armstrong myth.


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## a_avery007 (Jul 1, 2008)

if this case is tried in the US you can forget about swift, ie jurisdiction...

and if LA goes down so too will Contisnore......but it will not happen.....


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## rubbersoul (Mar 1, 2010)

Interpol
________
Chocolatik


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## Lazy Spinner (Aug 30, 2009)

So the WADA, UCI, and every Lance hater can be effectively silenced and stymied for what Alex Rodriguez gets for a single game? That may just be the most cost effective conspiracy ever carried out in the history of man.


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## Big-foot (Dec 14, 2002)

slegros said:


> Any link to the rest of the book? (I looked but couldn't find it) I got through the first 50 pages.. I wouldn't mind finishing it!


At the original link look to the lower right of the text. There are links to the rest of the book.


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