# Thinking about hiring a coach, but...



## vivid (Jun 1, 2012)

My dilemma comes from the fact that I don't want to race and I enjoy my club rides, but there are some rides that I would like to do but and not quite quick enough to attempt, but I'm not far off. That's my main goal, to gain ~1mph to be able to ride with the +20mph groups. On top of that I have decided to do some challenging climbs this year, Assault on Mt Mitchell and riding the Blue Ridge Parkway from Charlottesville VA to Ashville NC.

I ride three group rides per week: Wednesday (40mi), Sat (55-80mi) and Sun (20-40mi). Most rides are challenging, with some full out efforts at the sprint points or KOMs. Rides have 2000-4000ft of elevation gain.

That's where the questions of how much added value a coach could add. If I have three rides a week that I don't want to give up, then take two days off per week, that only leaves two days for a coach to coach on.

The other option that I was mulling around was to do two trainer sessions a week, on top of the 3 club rides. One would be a 16X 1min V02 max, 1min rest. The other 2X 20mins at 105% of threshold.


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## koudja (Feb 8, 2007)

I hired a coach to help me train for two xterra triathlons a few years ago. It was a good experience. I learned a lot about training philosophy and workout design, lost weight, and developed great strength and endurance, which were some of the goals I stated when I interviewed him. It may seem costly to hire a coach for several months but it included nutrition planning and advice, training plans, hr analysis, and frequent phone calls. I feel like I got my money's worth. I successfully achieved my performance goals and it was nice to have the coach's support ("great ride, i know you didn't feel good, but the numbers look great", "you could have pushed harder here, and here. know what that feels like and do it next time"). I used Mike Schultz of Highland Training and would recommend him, Home

You might be better suited to a few phone consultations and a training plan, which would be a one time cost. 

Alternatively, Joe Friel's Cyclist Training Bible might be a good read if you're trying to avoid the cost of a coach. Other books as well.


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## the_gormandizer (May 12, 2006)

koudja said:


> You might be better suited to a few phone consultations and a training plan, which would be a one time cost.
> 
> Alternatively, Joe Friel's Cyclist Training Bible might be a good read if you're trying to avoid the cost of a coach. Other books as well.


I agree with this advice. Self-coached trainer sessions and a commitment to good nutrition could bring about the kind of gains you are seeking. Unless you have lots of disposable income, or a commitment to competition, you probably do not need a coach. 

A good coach will have expectations of you in terms of rest and recovery for your hard sessions. This can rule out frequent group rides or Strava KOM attempts etc, that fatigue you unnecessarily and at the wrong time. I am fortunate to have a fantastic coach, who defines as "uncoachable" a rider who keeps reverting to what he was doing before.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

_If at first you don't succeed, try doing what your coach said the first time._ - anon.


A good coach will be able to parse out whether a rider's goals are incompatible with the constraints they place on their training.

Improvement requires change, how much change will of course vary by individual, but you won't improve by doing what you've always done.

I know it's perhaps not what everyone wants to hear, but a power meter at least provides quality information about the real nature of group rides (some are great training, others less so), and it can enable a coach can recognise that and devise a strategy to keep those rides in the plan.


I've had this happen on occasions, and one strategy was to discuss ways in which to make the group rides more effective training. It can be as simple as getting group to agree that you'll do a long turn on the front (and they might rotate next to you) or that you go off ahead for a while and then ease back and wait for them, or drop off back and chase, or get the group a little better organised so you get paceline happening at times, or do other drills, or perhaps you turn off a little early before the end of ride and do some intervals etc etc.

For me personally, I used to choose a route where I could do some quality solo work, but catch the group somewhere along the way for the ride home. Best of both worlds.


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## vivid (Jun 1, 2012)

Thanks for all of your replies. 

I am committed to changing my rides from last year. I'm also committed to seeing better results, but with the understanding that I enjoy my club rides. Last year when April came around the trainer was put away and I suspended my Trainer Road act. When I pulled the trainer back out and reactivated Trainer Road, I was much weaker then the past April, when I was using the trainer. This is a little strange as I felt I had improved over the summer. There is no question I will be using my trainer all year from here on out.


Just last week I purchases a trainer bike for $175 with Shimano 105 8spd. This bike will stay hooked up to my trainer all year. For Christmas I was given a Kickr, which is awesome BTW. Also I have now signed up for the annual Trainer Road account. IMO the less obstacles to get on the trainer, the better. Now all I have to do it go down stair and put shoes on and go.

I think picking up the the Training Bible could be sufficient, and if not at least it will give me a background to build from. Is it quite technical or written for a layperson to understand?


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

I just bought the Sufferfest Intermediate plan. Kind of like it. Just started this week. I am surprised by how scaled back it has made my training. I think having a plan is really helpful. 

Like I said, it is one week, so we will see how it goes. I am probably venturing off today as I can't ride outside tomorrow so am doing it today and maybe for a little longer than they suggest.


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## koudja (Feb 8, 2007)

The training bible is a long, slow read. Carmichael's, 'Time Crunched Cyclist' I've heard is succinct and easy to read. There are a few threads around here with recommendations for training books.

If your performance is decreasing after you get off the trainer, then your group rides aren't challenging you enough. You won't achieve your goals if you're not challenging your body. Maybe drop a group ride or two a week and ride alone. Take that day to do some hill repeats. This way you'll still have your free days. 

Regarding the trainer, great if it works for you, but once I get a chance to start riding regularly outside, it goes in the closet. The reason I ride my bike is to be outside, building fitness lets me stay outside longer.  My coach did tell me that the trainer is a harder workout because you're putting in constant effort, no coasting. So, one hour on the trainer is more of a workout than one hour on an outside ride. 

A basic heart rate monitor might be something to consider. The lady friend got hers for $25.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

IMO a good coach is the most efficient and cost effective way to improve. Guys will spend a fair amount of money on the latest equipment in order to see a noticeable performance gain yet, balk at the idea of spending money for a coach. 

As Alex stated, improvement requires change. Meaning, you have to push past your normal level of stress and then let your body rest, adapt and repeat. How to effectively stress the body is where a coach can really save you time and energy. If it were me I'd make two blocks of training out of your week: Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday as block one and Saturday and Sunday as block two. Rest Monday and Friday. How to structure those blocks is where the coach comes in but in general I would do shorter intervals early in the block and longer intervals later in the week. For block two I'd try and get more stress than block one but in a different way with longer or less intense miles. Have a plan for each group ride...

^^^that's what I would do based on my riding history, goals, life. For you maybe this is a bad idea.

Lastly, a power meter is a fantastic way to measure stress. You certainly don't need one but it's a great tool as it takes a bit of the guess work out of the equation.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

^^^agree^^^. I have and read both. The Bible is very good, but a slog to get through. TCC covers and explains what you need know.


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## the_gormandizer (May 12, 2006)

Here's what works for me in a 10-15 hour per week training schedule:


Two hard (interval) workouts per week (60 mins for ints, plus 30m mins or so for warmup and cooldown). I always do these indoors.
One long (endurance) ride per week (3-4 hours at L2).
Recover sufficiently from the above two.
Ride as much as you like as long as this does not impede recovery. Typically this means riding mainly at L1 or L2.
Focus on excellent nutrition to maximize recovery and lose body fat.

As someone else said, the key is defining what to do for the hard sessions, and this is an area where a coach is invaluable. Time-crunched plans reduce the riding at L1/L2 to maximize recovery spending more time off the bike. For conscientious individuals who tend to overdo it, a coach can also help you figure out when it's o.k. to do less.


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## runabike (Jun 18, 2013)

vivid said:


> The other option that I was mulling around was to do two trainer sessions a week, on top of the 3 club rides. One would be a 16X 1min V02 max, 1min rest. The other 2X 20mins at 105% of threshold.


Sometimes you have to recognize that group rides are rarely the most effective training. Especially longer ones like that which no doubt include probably an hour plus of wasted easy pedaling/coasting. Three sounds like way too many to be doing in the winter/early spring. 

The workouts you mentioned are insane, especially on a trainer, ESPECIALLY on top of three group rides. 

I'm a Cat 1 and I couldn't do the 2x20 in training, ever, unless fully rested and extremely motivated. 

I shoot for two hard rides a week, a workout and then a workout + group ride. Or I'll replace a workout with a very hard, fast, 1hr group ride. I have tens of thousands of miles in my legs and even that requires me taking my easy rides properly easy to recover from. 

So just from looking at your post, I'd say a coach could be very beneficial if you'd be willing to throw out all your rides and let him/her dictate what you should be doing. You should never look at a coach as someone to fill in your non-group rides. that's not how training works and it's definitely not how a coach would work. you need to think long term, all-encompassing training. That's how you'll really improve.


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## bikerector (Oct 31, 2012)

Firstly, coaches aren't just for competitive athletes, they should be able to tailor something to you personally with your goals and objectives in mind. Since you view the group rides as mandatory a coach could fluctate how you ride that group ride to stimulate more specific training; changes should be time at the front, how many of the sprints you actually go for, cadence goals, etc.

Having said that, some coaches are better at some things than others. Talk with a few different ones and see what works for you. I work with a few locals as basically a personal trainer utilizing a bike, their goals generally to get healthier and ride a bike better. I won't work with competitive athletes in general because they have goals that do not match what I'm able to offer, basically a little encouragement, a little knowledge and some structure and accountability.

As an alternative, if you're creative you should be able to get a generic training plan, or just get one of the books that tells you how to make one but that's much more time intensive in general, and adjust the purchased plan to your needs. It may not be as effective as the original training plan but it should be a reasonable guide. I prefer a coach since I need the accountability to hep stay focused some days, the 6th or 7th day of the week. It's too easy for me to skip that short recovery ride or easy ride and just have a complete recovery day even though it's not completely necessary to take the whole day off. Plus, I like having someone to bounce ideas off of and it creates the idea of a team atmosphere even though i ride 95% of the time solo or with only a friend or two.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

runabike said:


> Sometimes you have to recognize that group rides are rarely the most effective training. Especially longer ones like that which no doubt include probably an hour plus of wasted easy pedaling/coasting. Three sounds like way too many to be doing in the winter/early spring.
> 
> The workouts you mentioned are insane, especially on a trainer, ESPECIALLY on top of three group rides.
> 
> ...


I agree. I'm no racer, definitely not Cat 1 caliber, but I consider myself an accomplished cyclist and can hold a 4.2 - 4.3 W/kg output on a sustained 5% 30 - 40 minute climb, and I too find it extremely difficult to do a 2 x 20 at FTP (forget 105% FTP) in the middle of my "ususal" riding week. Usually 2 x 20 training for me is 70% - 75% FTP.


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## jmorgan (Apr 13, 2012)

I bet just riding 2 more days a week consistently (20-40mi day) will help you reach your goal of staying with the group easier. Also add another hour or more to your Sunday ride after the group ride is done and maybe work on specific interval training. Ease into the 2 new days and see how you feel. Up the intensity as long as they don't kill your other rides. 


Make your hard days hard and your easy days easy, the middle ground will impact going hard on your hard days. You also can't go hard everyday, so pick your days to go hard and don't turn an easy day into a hard day.


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