# Cyclocross Tubeless Tire Setup confusion! - Michelin Mud 2 or Schwalbe Super Swan



## twiggy (Mar 23, 2004)

I know there are tons of threads on tubeless setups already, but I'm confused and wondering if anyone can lend some advice!

Last winter I bought a 2015 Giant TCX Advanced Pro 2, and in preparation for 'cross racing season I'm getting ready to set it up for racing, and this year I think I'll try to run it tubeless after having nothing but good luck on my XC bike.

The bike has the stock Giant Wheels on it now (Giant X-S2 rims) and I have two sets of brand-new tires to potentially use:
- The Schwalbe Super Swan "Tubeless Ready" tires that came on the bike and
- Michelin Pro Mud II tires that I bought last year planning to run tubeless but never actually doing it.

I'm open to using either set of tires, but I'm confused about hot to set it up.

I was planning on buying the rubber Stan's strips (w/built-in valve) and using those with either set of tires; probably going with the michelins as I believe they're lighter. 

However; I hadn't realized until today that the Schwalbe's are "Tubeless ready".... Do I understand correctly that Schwalbe Tubeless Ready tires are made to be used without a rubber rim strip if used on Tubeless compatible rims? 

I guess I'm just debating whether I can save a few dollars by going the Schwalbe route rather than buying the Stan's Rubber stips to use with the michelins.....or should I use the stans strips with the schwalbe tires anyways to further protect against burping?


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## 800lbgorilla (Aug 1, 2005)

You'll still need a tubeless kit like the Stan's strips. 

The tires may be tubeless ready, but your rims are not. The tubeless kit is necessary to seal the spoke holes and to take up space in the rim bead area to help get a good seal with the tires. Even then, no guarantees it'll work as each rim/tire combination is different with regards to tubeless success. The Michelins in general don't do well tubeless because the bead isn't very strong.

Best of luck.


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## Stoneman (Mar 1, 2009)

If you want dependability I'd stay away from using the Michelins tubeless. You'll be prone to burping the tires as the bead isn't designed to be tubeless friendly.


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## November Dave (Dec 7, 2011)

Stoneman said:


> If you want dependability I'd stay away from using the Michelins tubeless. You'll be prone to burping the tires as the bead isn't designed to be tubeless friendly.


Totally agree with this. Michelin Mud 2s were thought of as good for tubeless at a time when cx tubeless just plain wasn't very good. The shape of the bead and the bead material are critical to a good tubeless setup, and these have improved radically very recently. 

Hutchinson, Maxxis, Vittoria, Specialized, and Bontrager have tires out that are known to work well with many rims. We've had phenomenal success with Maxxis Mud Wrestler TR and Hutchinson Toro Tubeless in testing with Stan's Grail and Pacenti SL23 and SL25 rims. 23 front/25 rear and no burps in abusive ride testing with a very aggressive Cat 1 racer. 

Tubeless can work very well for cx, unfortunately it's not quite as easy as in xc, where practically any tire around can be turned into a hot tubeless setup.


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## cullinsb (Feb 6, 2007)

I disagree with the post that said Michelin Mud 2s don't work well tubeless. I've been running them tubeless for the past three years on A23 and CXP-22 rims and they haven't been a problem. I've raced CX, ridden gravel and also ridden moderate mountain bike trails on my CX bike with these tires. The key is to build up the middle channel of the rim - I use 2-3 layers of either strapping tape or Gorilla tape and then a Stan's strip over the tape. Add 1.5 or two cups of Stan's sealant and go ride.


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## Stoneman (Mar 1, 2009)

All I can say is I had problems with the Michelin Mud 2s. Since then I've used Vittoria XG TNT, Specialized Tracer Pro 2bliss, and Maxxis Mud Wrestler TR tires with no burps or flats for 2 seasons.


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## Corndog (Jan 18, 2006)

I'll second any of the Specialized tires. Their bead works great tubeless.


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## November Dave (Dec 7, 2011)

Same here, burps at lower pressure on off cambers with Mud 2s. There are often multiple molds for a given tire. One works great, the other not so much. I'm convinced I've had that with Clement - one PDX worked awesome for a few months, another one was a trial to inflate out of the box, and was never reliable. The tubeless ready beads seem to reduce some of that variability.


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## TJay74 (Sep 9, 2012)

I have almost the same bike, 2015 Giant TCX SL1. On those rims you will need to use the rim tape that came with the wheels, it will take 2 passes to cover the spoke holes and not allow the rim tape to fail. Then you have to use the clear plastic red rim strips. Those are what keep the tires from going to the center of the rim and not seating. On those wheels you cant seat the tires without those strips.

I have the Schwalbe Super Swan setup this way with about 2 scoops of Stans in each tire. I ran them last night at 30psi just fine, 27psi and I was almost burping the tires.

I will more than likely order the Stans Iron cross wheels, the top end ones are under 1400g and will setup tubeless pretty easy.


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