# Top 10 Reasons for the Lance hate?



## mgp (Feb 3, 2004)

I can understand the Lance love, I can understand thinking Lance is a dhick, but I'm still trying to figure out why a few people here have so much hate towards Lance. Here's my take on it--feel free to add:

1. Lance banged their wife/girlfriend years ago.
2. Their wife/girlfriend calls out "Lance" during passionate lovemaking.
3. Just to be contrary because they need the attention.
4. A homosexual hero crush on Lance and this is how they compensate.
5. A homosexual hero crush on Lance in the past, but they were snubbed by him while trying to get an autograph and now it manifests itself as all out hatred.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.


*Disclaimer* Not that there's anything wrong with homosexual hero crushes.


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## Lazywriter (Mar 8, 2002)

*# 3 hits it on the head.*

People just want to be contrary rather than say, "hey the guy is the best and deserves the win". I used the analogy of teenagers who love a band and a song when it first comes out and they tell all their friends about it. Next thing the song is in the top 10 and "EVERYONE" is now loving the song. Now the song is "played out and tired" and the band "sold out" and now the once loved becomes despised. I think you would be hard pressed to find many Lance haters in 1999 when he won after cancer. I have seen anti-Lance sentiment grow over the 6 wins and predicted it long ago. People are so easily telegraphed. 

Lance said something interesting today in an interview. He said he admired Lemond for what he accomplished and stated that if "everyone is so dirty nowadays, why does Greg have the fastest time trial in the history of the tour?" Watch Lance on Charlie Rose on PBS when he comes back to the US. every year he has a great conversation and talks about the accusations in more detail. Innocent until proven guilty and if you don't like that way of life, then move to France. 





mgp said:


> I can understand the Lance love, I can understand thinking Lance is a dhick, but I'm still trying to figure out why a few people here have so much hate towards Lance. Here's my take on it--feel free to add:
> 
> 1. Lance banged their wife/girlfriend years ago.
> 2. Their wife/girlfriend calls out "Lance" during passionate lovemaking.
> ...


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## coldplay (Jul 25, 2004)

*I guess I just don't understand...*

I'm new here and started the thread about Simeoni, and boy was I shocked to see all of the hatred toward Lance and USPS as well. What's so wrong with what he's accomplished in his life, and how do some people have the ballz to JUDGE someone that they will never even come close to truely knowing. The way I see it is that Lance has one hell of a true American and International story. From Triathelete to cancer survivor (which alone probably would have killed 90% of us), to coming back and winning an event that has been dominated by Europeans (not that there's anything wrong with that) for years. He's even managed to gain the respect and support from foreign fans (even though there are a lot of haters over there as well). At any rate, I just don't get all of the energy spent in hating someone that's accomplished so much, and given even more to the fight against one of the nastiest diseases known to man! None of this is intended to offend anyone, just my 2 cents.


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## spankdoggie (Feb 13, 2004)

Lazywriter said:


> Lance said something interesting today in an interview. He said he admired Lemond for what he accomplished and stated that if "everyone is so dirty nowadays, why does Greg have the fastest time trial in the history of the tour?"


Hey Lazy how's the dog? Any new pictures of "The Big Boy?"


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## Lazywriter (Mar 8, 2002)

*Hey Spank, not sure if you have seen this one*

but here you go. I have other new ones but thought this was relevent today.



spankdoggie said:


> Hey Lazy how's the dog? Any new pictures of "The Big Boy?"


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## McBaine (Jul 20, 2003)

*Simeoni thread*

I know folks tend to favor the underdog and root against the favorite. I can understand not wanting to buy the same bike or wear the same jersey as the masses too. I can even understand anti-American sentiment from non-Americans. I'm curious, are most posters to this forum are American? If so will they be rooting against the US cycling team in Athens?


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## spankdoggie (Feb 13, 2004)

Lazywriter said:


> but here you go. I have other new ones but thought this was relevent today.


Thanks Lazy! Fantastic Photograph of your boy!


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

In his pre-cancer days, Lance was a pretty arrogant ********. He admits as much. He writes about it in his first book, in fact. The post-cancer Lance appears to be a much more humble and likable guy. Maybe it's all PR, but he seems to be fairly well liked in the peloton, and that means a lot. Still, some people have never forgotten the early days, and I expect that some people have a right to. But no one that posts here! Give me a break.


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## 633 (Feb 10, 2004)

I'm going for #3, and will offer a couple more:

6) Some people really enjoy trolling or being bombastic on an internet forum, just to get things stirred up.

7) Some guys take internet discussions way too personally, so if they say they don't like Lance and you say you do, then you've shown them up and they have to keep raising the ante to crush your arguments - Lance is a doper, Lance was mean to Simeoni, Lance beats his girlfriend, Lance is the antichrist and if you can't see that, you're a big fat idiot, too. We seem to be losing the art of rational discourse.


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## RiDE (May 28, 2004)

People here are e-thugs who think they are moral warriors.  

Plus it's a trend to not follow the trend. People hate anything/anyone popular like the Yankees, the Lakers, Jeff Gordon, Michael Schumacher... it all comes around I guess. 

I'm not a hardcore Lance fan but I respect what the guy has done. Everyone is waving their torches and pitchforks that he's doping. Well until they catch him doing so, my respect is still the same.

Having said that I go with #3.


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## brad nicholson (Feb 11, 2004)

*haters hating haters*



RiDE said:


> People here are e-thugs who think they are moral warriors.
> 
> Plus it's a trend to not follow the trend. People hate anything/anyone popular like the Yankees, the Lakers, Jeff Gordon, Michael Schumacher... it all comes around I guess.
> 
> ...



what amuses me is that 9 times out of 10 all roadies i know and ride with are arrogant asses when it comes down to it. when is the last time you joined up with a group ride and everyone was like wassup buddy? come pedal with us...can't ride 25 mph for four hours no problem we'll pick you back up. face it cycling and cyclists and athletes in general at the upper end of the bell curve tend to be big egos. no problem with that from me so why would lance be different, if i smoked the worlds best riders six years in a row in the world's most presitigious race i'd run my suck as well. 

as for american haters yes they are out there. i live in germany. some of the germans and dutch in my local ride group will flat tell you they don't want him to win becuase they don't want americans invading "their" sports. no problems with that either. i hope he keeps winning becuase i'm tired of their euro-centric pomposity. just like hoping an american wins the british open...

my two euro cents.


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## brad nicholson (Feb 11, 2004)

brad nicholson said:


> what amuses me is that 9 times out of 10 all roadies i know and ride with are arrogant asses when it comes down to it. when is the last time you joined up with a group ride and everyone was like wassup buddy? come pedal with us...can't ride 25 mph for four hours no problem we'll pick you back up. face it cycling and cyclists and athletes in general at the upper end of the bell curve tend to be big egos. no problem with that from me so why would lance be different, if i smoked the worlds best riders six years in a row in the world's most presitigious race i'd run my suck as well.
> 
> as for american haters yes they are out there. i live in germany. some of the germans and dutch in my local ride group will flat tell you they don't want him to win becuase they don't want americans invading "their" sports. no problems with that either. i hope he keeps winning becuase i'm tired of their euro-centric pomposity. just like hoping an american wins the british open...
> 
> my two euro cents.


i'm curious what percentage of lance haters are registered democrats and liberal euro-pussies and what percentage of lance supporters (not lovers but want to see him win) are loyal america loving card-carrying republicans? 

that being said i think that we should have a mini stage race between gw and kerry. an individual 25 km time trial, a two man-45 min crit, and an off-road mtn bike marathon. i'd put my money on w.


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## njmtbbg (Aug 19, 2003)

*Dude, I just ride...*

Hello All,

C'mon now...Two wheels, two pedals, one road (hopefully long). I'm a pretty avid follower of the message boards (they tend to make me laugh out loud - especially the caption contests). As for all the other stuff (LA, Dope, Ullrich, German Fans, blah, blah, blah) does it REALLY effect my life? No. 

I love the glimpses of heroism and sacrifice that riding gives me. Hamilton with the broken collarbone and then having to abandon this year (heatbreaking). Landis leading for Lance, Ullrich taking off knowing that it would be ultimately futile, Liggett and Sherwen for their imperfectly perfect calls, McEwen and his wheelies. Lance winning six. The list goes on and on....

Will I ever ride Cat. 1? Probably not. Win MTB races? Probably not. Know the true differences between Shimano XTR and Deore? Probably not, while I respect the heck out of those who do. 

But will I have something in common with the greats of cycling? Yes, I share two wheels, two pedals and one road (hopefully long). Nothing else really matters....right? 

Ride my bike, work my job, care for my family, live my life.

B.


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## Jdub (May 5, 2004)

*Are you kidding me!?!*



brad nicholson said:


> i'm curious what percentage of lance haters are registered democrats and liberal euro-pussies and what percentage of lance supporters (not lovers but want to see him win) are loyal america loving card-carrying republicans?
> 
> that being said i think that we should have a mini stage race between gw and kerry. an individual 25 km time trial, a two man-45 min crit, and an off-road mtn bike marathon. i'd put my money on w.



What a worthless post. Is there really a need to turn this into a political discussion? Here I was respecting your opinion in the prior post. Then I see this drivel!

I am a Lance Supporter. He's not my favorite (Tyler ... man I wish the guy could find some luck) , I just think he's pretty impressive. 

For the record I happen to be a true red, white, and blue, apple pie eating, freedom loving, conservative, DEMOCRAT for life. The idea of linking conservative and what passes for Republicans these days is so absurd in my mind. You are anything, but conservative. Far right is hardly conservative. What a shmuck ...


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## njmtbbg (Aug 19, 2003)

Jdub said:


> What a worthless post. Is there really a need to turn this into a political discussion? Here I was respecting your opinion in the prior post. Then I see this drivel!
> 
> I am a Lance Supporter. He's not my favorite (Tyler ... man I wish the guy could find some luck) , I just think he's pretty impressive.
> 
> For the record I happen to be a true red, white, and blue, apple pie eating, freedom loving, conservative, DEMOCRAT for life. The idea of linking conservative and what passes for Republicans these days is so absurd in my mind. You are anything, but conservative. Far right is hardly conservative. What a shmuck ...


Jdub - Not to go totally OT but,

I'm curious about linking conservative and democrat together. I ask because rarely are the two words used to describe one political philosophy. Please elaborate,

Thanks,

B.


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## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

brad nicholson said:


> i'm curious what percentage of lance haters are registered democrats and liberal euro-pussies and what percentage of lance supporters (not lovers but want to see him win) are loyal america loving card-carrying republicans?


That's a good one... how many "republicans" here were bashing French companies like Look, Mavic, Michelin, etc.... proclaiming boycotts, etc...

BTW- what is your definition of a "euro-*****"?

I don't think the world is broken down into Lance "haters" vs. "supporters." There were how many riders starting the tour? And maybe a dozen GC contenders? And the tour no longer has national teams, but rather trade teams. Would I have been a card-carrying communist if I supported Hamilton?


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## Marek (Feb 17, 2004)

*i am with you*



coldplay said:


> I'm new here and started the thread about Simeoni, and boy was I shocked to see all of the hatred toward Lance and USPS as well. What's so wrong with what he's accomplished in his life, and how do some people have the ballz to JUDGE someone that they will never even come close to truely knowing. The way I see it is that Lance has one hell of a true American and International story. From Triathelete to cancer survivor (which alone probably would have killed 90% of us), to coming back and winning an event that has been dominated by Europeans (not that there's anything wrong with that) for years. He's even managed to gain the respect and support from foreign fans (even though there are a lot of haters over there as well). At any rate, I just don't get all of the energy spent in hating someone that's accomplished so much, and given even more to the fight against one of the nastiest diseases known to man! None of this is intended to offend anyone, just my 2 cents.


i USED to visit road bike review but due to all the dhead unreasonable closeminded Lance bash and general psyco bable bash, i moved on. Sad to see that it still rears it's ugly head. Lance earned any reasonable minded cyclist or sports fans respect should be the bottom line. I try to not worry about their(LA) personal life whether i agree with it or not. Yep, doping is a big concern in cycling and sports all over. I expect LA detractors expect the worse or lean toward a negative outlook for life in general. LA is tested and passes. So what if LA pulled in Siemoni(sp?) who's complaining, mostly Siemoni and LA haters. I am babling I know too.


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## Jdub (May 5, 2004)

*Political Tradition*



njmtbbg said:


> Jdub - Not to go totally OT but,
> 
> I'm curious about linking conservative and democrat together. I ask because rarely are the two words used to describe one political philosophy. Please elaborate,
> 
> ...



Political Tradition dictates that Republican = Conservative and Democrat = liberal.

However if you take a look at the true definition of Conservative and Liberal it doesn't make much sense. There are conservative people on both sides of the fence. Conservative does not mean right wing as many would like to believe. 

Conservative means moderate and cautious. The truth is that most people in America that actually care about politics lie somewhere in the middle. By most I mean majority. Some are a little to the left (myself included) and some are a little to the right. Those that espose very radical right wing views are no more conservative then the most radical of left wing proponents. 

I think the economy should be dealt with in a conservative and cautious manner, but I think the social welfare of the country including all those less fortunate lies on the shoulders of the government. I don't believe in big government, but I do think there are a lot of government services that should be left in place or built up. I don't like taxes, but I'm willing to pay them in order to be a member of this great country as long as they are used appropriately. I generally vote Democrat, because that's who I find supports my values the best, but I'm not afraid to vote Republican if it seems appropriate. 

I could go on ... but at the risk of this turning into a political discussion I won't. 

My original point is we are talking about cycling here. Why bring politics into it and make some arrogant statement that ties LA supporters to Republicans simply because that's how you happen to side on the issue.


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## Marek (Feb 17, 2004)

*#6*

LA is unfair to the other riders, he works and trains harder, has too much money, too many homes, a winner, and is a big time american texan living the dream sport figure. (just too much good stuff for his detracts to handle probably) 


#7 Lance should do all pro races and not just focus on the little race of the TdF. 

# Lance is probably republican & for destroying the planet, works for big Corps. 

#9 Lance is probably a democrate & is for saving the planet.


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## Duane Gran (Feb 3, 2004)

That is my experience too, but then I think I used to be a roadie jerk, but only when riding among my team or other racer-oriented rides. The running joke on my team group rides was that there was no cue sheet because the lack thereof provided motivation to stay connected. Naturally, this would be a big turn off to beginners or people more accustomed to friendly rides, but once you were over the hump it was plenty of fun.

My point is simply that it is fine to be a roadie jerk as long as everyone is cool with the program. Showing up on a mixed ride and splitting the group & whatnot, isn't cool at all. I never did that stuff.


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

*it's not "lance hate"....*

and its not a dem/republican thing either, for the no doubt well intentioned philosophical lightweight that puked that analogy up. its a <b>sporting event</b>. just like any other sporting event, some people invest themselves emotionally into the participants. Think redsox/yankees or any euro football-those guys are emotionally invested. Your guy naturally is ascribed greater than actual qualities and your guys opponent is seen as the great satan. or something like that. click down a few threads to the simeoni thread for an over the top example of "your guys opponent is the great satan"ism. If you're not emotionally invested in any of them, the fanboyism looks ridiculous and it's easy to mock the fanboys and their <a href="http://lancearmstrong.com/">deity</a>. especially when there's some doubt as to his methods and character. My point is, essentially, that this is no different than the conversation youd probably see at a baseball forum regarding barry or nba forum regarding kobe. some like them, some don't. Here though, there's some assumption that all or most americans are or should be Lance fanboys so those that aren't are somehow "haters". they're not.


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## JimP (Dec 18, 2001)

The last 6 years when Lance has won the TdF, the interest in cycling in America has increased. The newspapers show the results of the top stage and GC riders and the American riders but little else. CNN and ESPN only show interest when there is an American high in the standings. There was an interview with an LBS who said that their sales of road bikes rises 15-20% during and right after the TdF. I suspect that if Lance weren't as noteworthy and generating the interest in cycling, many of the Lance haters wouldn't even be cyclists today.

Jim


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## happycx (Jul 6, 2003)

*Hence the reason....*

I ride on the road alone.


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## thegarzacomplex (Jul 8, 2003)

*dubya is a doper!*



brad nicholson said:


> i'm curious what percentage of lance haters are registered democrats and liberal euro-pussies and what percentage of lance supporters (not lovers but want to see him win) are loyal america loving card-carrying republicans?
> 
> that being said i think that we should have a mini stage race between gw and kerry. an individual 25 km time trial, a two man-45 min crit, and an off-road mtn bike marathon. i'd put my money on w.


GW would win because he is a dope who is on dope!


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*agree*

I think some of the haters have about as much time on their bikes as some of the newbie superfan-über homers. Most wouldn't be riding if it wasn't for him, so it's like 'father hatred' as he brought them into the cycling world. (we could go into therapy for this). I've always rode a bike but it was Lemond who really 'got me hooked' as he was the first one who brought cycling to the public eye in America. My casual transpo became a bit more of a passion so regardless of the stupid things he says I owe him one.
so that's where I stand as a 'law and order liberal' (just to get on the political tip). I find it quite contradictory to be a cycling republican, especially with the current administrations deep attachment to the fossil fuel economy.
so don't try to politicize Mr Armstrong. It's about as accurate or sensical as asking "what kind of SUV would Jesus drive?"


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## denversean (Jun 14, 2004)

I work with a lot of Euros and not one of them likes Lance. They forwarded the articles on the Lemond interview with glee. They say he makes the TDF boring. They say the only way he could win after cancer is by doping. Some guys from a certain country are hoping he'll take the big fall like Pantani.

In the US, it's obviously a different story, but people always root for the underdog. Lance is trendy now. Along with avid cyclists who watched him climb to the top, there is now a huge contingent of groupies that we have to deal with. I like the guys analogy to the indie band making it big - all the core fans go away.

BTW - I think a tinge of the Lance love-hate thing is political just because of the current nature of Franco-American relations. Euro's can't stand the ideo of an American winning the tour while a certain contingent of Americans would love to wrap Lance in a US flag and call him the King of France due to all the misguided angst against that country.

Oh and just for the record - 

I think I would have to go with Kerry over Bush in a bike race - didn't GW fall off a bike while going like 2mph a couple months back?


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

*yes. lance increases bike sales.*



JimP said:


> The last 6 years when Lance has won the TdF, the interest in cycling in America has increased. The newspapers show the results of the top stage and GC riders and the American riders but little else. CNN and ESPN only show interest when there is an American high in the standings. There was an interview with an LBS who said that their sales of road bikes rises 15-20% during and right after the TdF. I suspect that if Lance weren't as noteworthy and generating the interest in cycling, many of the Lance haters wouldn't even be cyclists today.
> 
> Jim


I'll agree with you on that. When I was working in a shop there was definitely more road traffic in july and august. though there was more traffic in july and august for most things with or without the tour. the same can be said for lemond with road bikes, or shaun palmer with dh bikes and freeride boards or dave mirra and matt hoffman with freestyle bikes. they all sell product well. Don't know about the part about lance "haters" not being cyclists were it not for him though. I started riding long before I heard of him. I don't see the correlation.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Just like Jan increased*

Bianchi sales in Germany. Probably did the same for Pinarello. No correlation to anyone personally but there are some 'haters' on this post that I'll bet didn't bike before LA popularized the sport in the US. so without LA they (not you) would not be a cyclist.
so they hate the person who is actually responsible for a hobby, past time, sport they love. They are no different to me than the Johnny come lately, have no sense of cycling history "Fan Boys' that we find them in such heated battle with each other. in all reality they are 2 sides of the same coin and at least they are on bikes.


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

*bizarre but you're probly right.*



atpjunkie said:


> Bianchi sales in Germany. Probably did the same for Pinarello. No correlation to anyone personally but there are some 'haters' on this post that I'll bet didn't bike before LA popularized the sport in the US. so without LA they (not you) would not be a cyclist.
> so they hate the person who is actually responsible for a hobby, past time, sport they love. They are no different to me than the Johnny come lately, have no sense of cycling history "Fan Boys' that we find them in such heated battle with each other. in all reality they are 2 sides of the same coin and at least they are on bikes.


on the topic of riders helping sell bikes, I just bought a Poprad. didn't need it, but all the "lemond haters" (I know, no one really hates lemond any more than anyone hates armstrong) inspired me. so maybe I'm just a fanboy myself. a contrarian one at that. but, I'll be a fanboy with a slightly nicer cx'er. now if I could just afford one of these pinarellos you speak of...


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*and with that Pirate Flag*

I'd have made you out as a bitter Pantani fan with a garage full of Bianchis. yeah cx, see now ya wanna see me become a 'fan boy' just start spouting off how great Sven Nijs is (traitor). see now yer speaking my language, Wellens, De Clerq, Vanoppen. yes I own a Ridley because of Mario, see I'm a Fred like the Trek riding fanboys. I have Collstrop Palmans livery (long sleeve of course it is cyclocross). Hope Mr Paige has a great season.
Ya going to the Nats in Portland?


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

*half right*



atpjunkie said:


> I'd have made you out as a bitter Pantani fan with a garage full of Bianchis. yeah cx, see now ya wanna see me become a 'fan boy' just start spouting off how great Sven Nijs is (traitor). see now yer speaking my language, Wellens, De Clerq, Vanoppen. yes I own a Ridley because of Mario, see I'm a Fred like the Trek riding fanboys. I have Collstrop Palmans livery (long sleeve of course it is cyclocross). Hope Mr Paige has a great season.
> Ya going to the Nats in Portland?


no stable of Edoardo's finest, but I am a bitter Pantani fan. very bitter. that's what pisses me off about LA-he gets a total pass from soooo many people that thoroughly villified marco. well, he's gone now, so no difference I guess. bianchis... I should have bought an axis but I prefer steel. though maybe a monocoque carbon frame like wellens's would sway me, that ridleys a great bike. that 'Nago that the "traiterous nijs" rides is a fine steed too... no nats for me, you?


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## girishji (Aug 24, 2003)

brad nicholson said:


> i'm curious what percentage of lance haters are registered democrats and liberal euro-pussies and what percentage of lance supporters (not lovers but want to see him win) are loyal america loving card-carrying republicans?
> 
> that being said i think that we should have a mini stage race between gw and kerry. an individual 25 km time trial, a two man-45 min crit, and an off-road mtn bike marathon. i'd put my money on w.


And I would put my money that you are a right wing nut.

How dare you suggest that liberal is euro ***** and republican is loyal american loving BS.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*apples and oranges*

Pantani didn't get a free ride because he was caught. see evidence, a 60 Hematocrit when he crashed that dropped to about 16-20 before his "Team doctors" took over. Needles, Insulin (? if memory serves me right) etc... found in his room, a 53 or so hematocrit when he was dropped from the Giro. See if LA gets caught with any of these things I'll pile on with the best of them. So his 'free-ride' comes from only being guilty by rumor and gossip.
I liked Pantani as well but he cheated and got caught. Like Millar, why would you have stuff laying around while under investigation? most plausible answer: using so long they are addicted. body no longer produces enough to stay 'normal' hence Pantani's H-Crit crash in the hospital. so they take risks of being caught lie a junkie because the body can't do without. anyhow, sad he's gone. was a joy to watch. here's a little sample of the stable.


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