# SRAM Rival Brakes..No Good?



## stunzeed (Jul 27, 2007)

So I am coming from SRAM Red's then the TRP 960's but am running the Rivals on my new bike. 

I don't know if its the fact they need to break in, or the fact I'm in a much hillier area but these brakes just don't seem to stop well. The modulation isn't linear as well

Do they need to break in or are these brakes just not nearly as good as higher end brakes


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

It's probably due to the cabling and shoes. Not the actual calipers.


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## rb1freak (Jun 24, 2003)

No problems here in Front Range Colorado. Like the previous poster, I'd check the setup.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

I like my Rival brakes. 

Most brake problems are cables and pads, not the caliper itself.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

it's the brakes. Rivals are weak - if you look at the 2010 Force you'll see that they redesigned the arch to be similar to Red, making the brake better. Rival has the old arch still.


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## stunzeed (Jul 27, 2007)

Its a brand new bike so was just wondering if the stock pads need to break in


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

I've ridden Red, Force and have Rival brakes on my bike. Rivals work just fine. I really didn't notice any difference in braking power.

Sram brakes come with Swiss Stop pads, so its not the pads. Swiss Stops are a great pad.

My guess is you have a cabling issue. IE: brakes need to be re-adjusted due to the cable housings and ferrules seating fully.

Have you had your bike back to your LBS for the first (should be) free tuneup?


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## QuattroCreep (Nov 30, 2009)

have you checked the pad alignment to the rim? I have seen more then one bike come out of a shop new with the pads mounted so high or low that only half the pad is contacting the rim.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

Rims are another huge factor in braking. Giving your rims a good cleaning to remove glazing can help. In some cases sanding, even.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

QuattroCreep said:


> have you checked the pad alignment to the rim? I have seen more then one bike come out of a shop new with the pads mounted so high or low that only half the pad is contacting the rim.


With the same force at the lever, only half the pads contacting the rim would not affect frictional forces at the rim. The decrease in area is exactly offset by an increase in pressure, so "braking power" would remain the same. But yes,"half-off" is not the way to have your pads set for several other reasons.

IMO, lots of brake complaints are generated by brake feel more than actual performance. If the brakes feel spongy or modulation seems off, check and see if the pads contact the rim at exactly the same time on lever pull. If not, one pad flexes the rim before the other one makes contact. Sometimes, just having the pads equidistant from the rim doesn't guarantee that they make simultaneous contact. Excessive toe-in can also create flex.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

stevesbike said:


> it's the brakes. Rivals are weak - if you look at the 2010 Force you'll see that they redesigned the arch to be similar to Red, making the brake better. Rival has the old arch still.


it's not the brakes...as have others, i've ridden all SRAM brakes and they definitely work just fine. do you honestly think that this would be the only thread about rival brakes not working if that truely was the case?


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## bobski (Aug 12, 2005)

Rival brakes on a pro's bike.

Excerpt: "Chief among these choices is the use of SRAM Rival brakes, when Red items are expected. Team mechanic Brendan informs us it’s because the Rival callipers are stiffer than Red and perform as well."


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## asad137 (Jul 29, 2009)

stevesbike said:


> if you look at the 2010 Force you'll see that they redesigned the arch to be similar to Red, making the brake better.


More likely they're just now using the same forging as Red calipers, meaning lower cost. There's only a 15g difference between Red and Force brakes, which is easily attributable to the Ti hardware on Red.

Asad


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## stunzeed (Jul 27, 2007)

I am wondering if its the fulcrum 7's that are the issue. Its been a solid week of riding and the brakes just feel mushy when coming down the hills


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

stunzeed said:


> I am wondering if its the fulcrum 7's that are the issue. Its been a solid week of riding and the brakes just feel mushy when coming down the hills


I'd be checking for cable problems.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

Mushy brakes = cable issues.


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

Housing is likely too long, or there is excessive toe-in


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## cosmo333 (Oct 5, 2005)

do both housing ends have ferrules? Needed on SRAM brakes.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

+1

I have ridden a SRAM brake that a shop tuned and forgot the ferrule. Mush city.

Rival calipers are just fine. The OE SRAM pads were fine in dry, garbage in wet, Koolstop made a big difference, but this was the first-year Rival, circa 2006.




cosmo333 said:


> do both housing ends have ferrules? Needed on SRAM brakes.


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## zsir (Nov 14, 2008)

if sram would only add the centering screw....:mad2:


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

zsir said:


> if sram would only add the centering screw....:mad2:


Why? Centering the brake by hand is quicker and easier. I've never understood the need for centering screws.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

rx-79g said:


> Why? Centering the brake by hand is quicker and easier. I've never understood the need for centering screws.


100% agree...probably the most useless thing on any shimano part ever. 20 yrs of wrenching and i've never touched one.


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## DHallerman (Mar 28, 2008)

cxwrench said:


> 100% agree...probably the most useless thing on any shimano part ever. 20 yrs of wrenching and i've never touched one.


Not so. Those centering screws make fine-tuning very easy, moving the caliper 1 or 2 mm left or right.

I like the Rival brakes, but miss the centering screw, too.

I also find it interesting that the "lesser" Apex brakes -- like the higher end Force and Red brakes -- have that screw. Funny, you'd think that if SRAM skipped it on the Rival brakes, which were at the time the low-end, they'd have skipped the screw on the Apex brakes.


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## atimido (Jun 17, 2009)

Make sure your bike shop properly tuned the calipers. Don't they have a tension spring that needs to be adjusted instead a tension adjusting screw like Shimano brakes? If the individual who adjusted your brakes doesn't know how to adjust the calipers, they may not be operating properly.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

DHallerman said:


> Not so. Those centering screws make fine-tuning very easy, moving the caliper 1 or 2 mm left or right.
> 
> I like the Rival brakes, but miss the centering screw, too.
> 
> I also find it interesting that the "lesser" Apex brakes -- like the higher end Force and Red brakes -- have that screw. Funny, you'd think that if SRAM skipped it on the Rival brakes, which were at the time the low-end, they'd have skipped the screw on the Apex brakes.


My super finely tuned hands can easily move the caliper by less than one millimeter.

Incredible, I know.


Apex probably included the mostly useless screw to overcome the objections of people who love Shimano as they attack the 105/Tiagra price point. When double pivot calipers first replaced single pivots, easy centering seemed pretty neat. But since double pivot calipers are not sprung on their mounting screw like singles, it was never necessary. SRAM doesn't use them otherwise because they are unnecessary weight.


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## asad137 (Jul 29, 2009)

rx-79g said:


> SRAM doesn't use them otherwise because they are unnecessary weight.


Except that Red and Force calipers both have them...

Asad


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## DHallerman (Mar 28, 2008)

rx-79g said:


> My super finely tuned hands can easily move the caliper by less than one millimeter.
> 
> Incredible, I know.


Actually, could you post a picture of those super finely tuned hands?

I need to see what they look like before deciding whether or not to buy them.

Dave, _who says that perhaps he's mixing up his bike forum threads_


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

DHallerman said:


> Not so. Those centering screws make fine-tuning very easy, moving the caliper 1 or 2 mm left or right.



'not so' i believe not having to grab a tool is easier than having to...but you go on doing what you do, there is obviously nothing wrong w/ doing it that way.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

cxwrench said:


> 'not so' i believe not having to grab a tool is easier than having to...but you go on doing what you do, there is obviously nothing wrong w/ doing it that way.


Unless, of course, it means passing up excellent equipment that lacks features of similar value to air conditioning on a snowmobile.


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## zsir (Nov 14, 2008)

rx-79g said:


> Why? Centering the brake by hand is quicker and easier. I've never understood the need for centering screws.



kind of wonder what you consider centered....? If the rim deflects visibly at all when the brakes are applied I don't consider them centered. And since about 60% of the time after taking off a wheel I have to recenter the brakes which usually takes 4-5 tries I'd rather have the centering screw. I'd buy force or red but they are not black. way too anal I know  but like someone else said when force, red , apex have the feature WTH


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

I too like a centering screw. Might be a band-aid issue for a caliper that is not functioning evenly and/or in a situation where a brake cable is pushing on the arm to tweak it. Usually the later. I've got brakes with an without centering adjustment in the end, mine take about as much time to reposition the whole caliper or turn the adjustment screw. YMMV. If buying calipers, like to have it included.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

zsir said:


> kind of wonder what you consider centered....? If the rim deflects visibly at all when the brakes are applied I don't consider them centered. And since about 60% of the time after taking off a wheel I have to recenter the brakes which usually takes 4-5 tries I'd rather have the centering screw. I'd buy force or red but they are not black. way too anal I know  but like someone else said when force, red , apex have the feature WTH


I run my SRAM, Shimano, Cane Creek and Campy calipers close to the rim and as perfectly centered as the human eye can perceive. I don't bother using the centering screws. I only just noticed the Campy even has one.

Before there were double pivots, all my brake jobs were centered, too. Even though you had to use a punch or cone wrench under much more tension.

I'm surprised some of you can get a stem or saddle on straight. No centering screws there, either.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

zsir said:


> kind of wonder what you consider centered....? If the rim deflects visibly at all when the brakes are applied I don't consider them centered. And since about 60% of the time after taking off a wheel I have to recenter the brakes which usually takes 4-5 tries I'd rather have the centering screw. I'd buy force or red but they are not black. way too anal I know  but like someone else said when force, red , apex have the feature WTH


seriously? you manage to get your brakes out of proper adjustment _60% of the times you take a wheel off?_. really? what are you doing that causes the brake to move?


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## zsir (Nov 14, 2008)

cxwrench said:


> seriously? you manage to get your brakes out of proper adjustment _60% of the times you take a wheel off?_. really? what are you doing that causes the brake to move?



the brake is not moving ....just not getting the wheel back on in the same position.


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## zsir (Nov 14, 2008)

rx-79g said:


> I'm surprised some of you can get a stem or saddle on straight. No centering screws there, either.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

zsir said:


> the brake is not moving ....just not getting the wheel back on in the same position.


The wheel is supposed to be seated all the way into the dropout. That position is entirely repeatable and very accurate. If you can't do it on your bike, either something is wrong with your dropouts, hubs or your technique.


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## turbomatic73 (Jan 22, 2004)

The longest threads tend to be the most useless...point of diminishing returns after 10 posts...


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

zsir said:


> the brake is not moving ....just not getting the wheel back on in the same position.


you're doing it wrong...


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