# 585 Size Help!!!!



## uscsig51 (May 7, 2006)

OK, so I now know that I am going to be getting a 585, YAHOO!!!:thumbsup: :thumbsup: 

However, I have ridden both the XL (57) and XXL (59) at the LBS. The 59 felt very stable, but appeared a little sluggish in handiling and maybe a little too long. Probably ge a good choice if I just wanted to sit in the saddle and go straight all day. The 57 felt a lot more responsive, but I felt that I was too far forward when standing up to go. In both instances, I had different individuals help me at the LBS and each had their own philosophy since I am somewhat in between sizes. I'm 6'-2", 34" inseam and they had my seat height at 80.

Would I be better off with the 57 (top tub is 57.5) and longer stem and/or offset seat post if needed vs. the 59 (top tube 58.7) and a shorter stem. The individual at the LBS indicated that decreasing the stem size would impact the steering/handling of the bike and therefore indicated that the 57 would probably be the better option. My previous bike was a Trek 5200 (top tube was 58.2).

Any help and recommendations would be helpful.


----------



## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*the XL...*

I assume you had a 60cm Trek. The head tube should be about 190mm with the headset. How much spacer and what stem angle and length were you using?

The XL 585 will also have a 190mm head tube with the headset installed. It will require 1 size longer stem, at the most. Since it has the same seat tube angle and 5mm less TT length, this may put you in-bewteen stem sizes, so there are several options with regard to stem length and saddle position. Depending on your original position, you might use a 10mm longer stem and see if the 5mm of extra reach bothers you. If it does, the you can reduce the stem length by 10mm and move the saddle 5mm back. Un;less the longer stem would be more than 130mm, the TT length is OK.

The XXL size diffrence is simple. It requires 15mm less spacer and one size shorter stem, since there's only a 12mm difference in the TT length.


----------



## uscsig51 (May 7, 2006)

*Thanks for reply...*

C-40, thanks for the feedback. Yes, I had the 60cm Trek 5200 and I don't believe Trek has changed their geometry.

The one thing that I am still a little puzzled about is the distinctive difference between the 57 and 59 cm frame size. Would I be correct to state that it comes down to personel preference as far as what I am looking for in ride/handling characteristics? Again, the 57 felt more responsive laterlly vs. the 59 which felt sluggish, but the longer wheelbase of the 59 felt very stable.


----------



## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*well...*

For me, it would come down to both the handling and the stem setup. On a large frame, I wouldn't use a stem shorter than 110mm. I also like to keep the spacers at 20mm or less.


----------



## uscsig51 (May 7, 2006)

*Look 585 - 57 cm (XL)*

Well, I made one final trip down to the LBS on Father's Day to test ride the 57 (XL) frame vs. the 59 (XXL) frame.

The 57 (XL) is the better fit, more responsive and quicker acceleration, so it looks like I will be picking one up online. The LBS is not willing to provide me with any deals, no discounts, no cash discounts, nada, nothing. I feel bad, because they have spent a lot of time and have been very helpful, but I can save anywhere between $1,000-$1,500 depending on build; and I can just pay them their $200.00 fee to assemble and fit me on it.

Is this typical for local bike shops? Why wouldn't they want to stay competitive? I can't justify spending +$1,000.00 for customer service.


----------



## CTinCT (May 11, 2006)

I believe in supporting the local guy, but they have to be in the ballpark. I'm a motocrosser and I buy a lot of dirtbikes. I try to stick with my local dealer, but sometimes they are not even close.


----------



## elviento (Mar 24, 2002)

You can't justify? You have already USED their customer service. Of course they cannot stay competitive with online stores, if a-holes like you come in to test ride multiple bikes multiple times (don't forget they will have to mark down on these demo bikes later) and they go buy the product else where. 



uscsig51 said:


> Well, I made one final trip down to the LBS on Father's Day to test ride the 57 (XL) frame vs. the 59 (XXL) frame.
> 
> The 57 (XL) is the better fit, more responsive and quicker acceleration, so it looks like I will be picking one up online. The LBS is not willing to provide me with any deals, no discounts, no cash discounts, nada, nothing. I feel bad, because they have spent a lot of time and have been very helpful, but I can save anywhere between $1,000-$1,500 depending on build; and I can just pay them their $200.00 fee to assemble and fit me on it.
> 
> Is this typical for local bike shops? Why wouldn't they want to stay competitive? I can't justify spending +$1,000.00 for customer service.


----------



## uscsig51 (May 7, 2006)

*Educated Customer*

More like educated customer, but thanks for the compliment. Let's see, spend $6,000-6,500 for a Look 585 ($3,000 frame) w/ full Dura-Ace build and Ksyrium SL3 wheels + taxes of 8.75%, or go with the same frame for $2,300 off of E-Bay and spend $2,200 for a full Dura-Ace build with Ksyrium ES wheels and pay the LBS $200.00 to assemble. 

You do the math  :idea: I have given the LBS every chance to provide a discount and or make a deal, but they were unwilling to budge.

P.S. It's A-Holes like me that laugh at morons like you...


----------



## stevecaz (Feb 25, 2005)

I'm very surprised the LBS wasn't willing to deal with a $5k-6k purchase. But what gets me is that Bicycle John's on Ebay is offering those 585 frames around $2300.00 (and I believe they are an actual brick and morter shop in CA). They have offered so many that I really don't they don't have all these in stock. I would guess they can buy them off Veltec Sports (Look US distributor) at anytime for probably around $2000. They probably figured selling on Ebay at an incredible price is a quick way to sell them fast with no hassle, and make a quick and easy $200-$300 profit a pop. And at that price for a desired frame they can sell lots. It would take them 5 low end bikes that shops sell lots of all day long to make the same profit, and they don't have to offer a free first tuneup. 

So that makes me wonder what the wholesale price on the frame is. I would have thought at the normal $3k retail, that a shop would be making $400-500 on the frame. Apparently they are making much more. Hey shops need to make and deserve good profits to stay afloat, but sometime it goes overboard. The big thing with big ticket items is that there is much higher profit margins. And if someone comes in really interested in a $3k frame or $5k bike, many shops think there is no reason to deal if asked to since that person obviously has money and will give in and buy it anyway.


----------



## elviento (Mar 24, 2002)

You can save your laughter for now. I always buy online and my latest purchase is a brand new frame for 40% of retail. That said, I do not take advantage of bike shops because I know my sizes down to the last millimeter. 

As far as math is concerned, it's ok to ask your LBS to price match another shop, but to ask them to match ebay is just idiotic. Many items on ebay are sold below LBS cost. 



uscsig51 said:


> More like educated customer, but thanks for the compliment. Let's see, spend $6,000-6,500 for a Look 585 ($3,000 frame) w/ full Dura-Ace build and Ksyrium SL3 wheels + taxes of 8.75%, or go with the same frame for $2,300 off of E-Bay and spend $2,200 for a full Dura-Ace build with Ksyrium ES wheels and pay the LBS $200.00 to assemble.
> 
> You do the math  :idea: I have given the LBS every chance to provide a discount and or make a deal, but they were unwilling to budge.
> 
> P.S. It's A-Holes like me that laugh at morons like you...


----------



## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

Just caught this thread, I have the same sizing dilema and am going with the smaller frame, the XL (Why do they call it that, BTW..dumb.) I had both a 60 and a 59 Truk, both worked fine but the smaller one seemed a little "tighter" handling. So..

On LBS pricing vs shopping around. I went in to all three of my local shops and talked directly to thier owners. Two of them seem to be able to get full price for everything and don't want to be bothered 'taking care of' a local bike guy. The third is owned by a fellow racer who simply loves the sport and will bend over backwards to provide the best deal possible to his dedicated customers. Guess where I buy? 

Now, sure, I can save a small amount by going online and blowing the local guy off, or I can (and do) take an online price in to his shop and ask him what he can do to match it. He's usually willing to come very close, I get real customer service, he probably doesn't make any big profit off me. But he isn't selling at a loss and I certainly do send him lots of business. He also enjoys it when we (his local racer customers) get a good race finish on stuff I bought from his shop..
Don Hanson


----------



## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

As I posted this morning, I went an got the 585. Just finished building it, in time for dark..Tommorrow am I am looking forward to giving it it's first workout. I put on some Dura Ace 9sp and will mostly use Stratus wheels or some Zipp 303s. USE alien seat post and Zipp B2 carbon barsm, FSA team Isis drive cranks and Speedplay Ti pedals. Seems fairly light, compared to my current DeRosa King and Dual rides. If the bike rides as well as it seems to be made, it will be a joy. I especially like the 'understated' carbon overlayed with that silver translucent paint..I never looked at the color that closely, thought it was a solid color silver, till I started working on it..

Wonder why they call a 57 an "XL"? Seems weird, but then they are French..(smiley face) I went with my Local Bike Shop, who matched the best I could get on the net. 
Yahoo! Like early Xmas..
Don Hanson


----------

