# Venge climbing vs Tarmac?



## David23 (Jun 5, 2012)

I have read a lot of posts comparing the Venge to the Tarmac, and there seems to be a commonality of comments that the Tarmac is a better bike for climbing. I'm unsure of the rationale for that? Is the very slight weight difference what the comments are based on, lighter Tarmac vs a hundred grams or so heavier Venge, or stiffer BB area of Tarmac, or exactly what? I'm trying to decide between the two for a second bike (S Works Roubaix is current bike). I'm an older (64) rider, 175-180lbs (still working on losing more), mixed terrain solo rides around 25-40 miles, includes some short steep pitches, and some long grades with the open flatfish areas. I like what I've read about both bikes, but climbing at my weight is not ever easy, and I wonder if the Venge would realistically be a noticeable disadvantage at my pace or intent. I haven't found a local shop with appropriate bikes to test ride, and am interested in input.


----------



## purdyd (Jun 18, 2010)

David23 said:


> I have read a lot of posts comparing the Venge to the Tarmac, and there seems to be a commonality of comments that the Tarmac is a better bike for climbing.


I can't comment on the venge specifically

There's climbing and then there is climbing

If you are sitting down spinning up hill I don't think there is any difference. If you stand up and hammer up, yes, the Tarmac reacts very well, but not all of that reaction is uphill. On a long day of climbing, sometimes that Tarmac agility starts to detract from the climb and turns to twitchy.

Going downhill, well, if there are any tight turns, the Tarmac is the weapon of choice for me.

But I think you already have the best bike for you, the sworks roubaix 

The venge or Tarmac are going to have 30mm more drop at the stem for the same frame size

Maybe some new wheels or group set would satisfy that upgrade urge?


----------



## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

I have not ridden the Venge but the Tarmac is the best climbing bike I have ridden. I tried several and took them out and immediately started to climb. That was my determinant.

Fwiw, Giant acknowledges the Propel is not as stiff as the TCR. Probably similar with Tarmac/Venge. A little extra weight too. Nothing monumental. A guy from our local shop will destroy me every day on his Propel. 

But the Tarmac is likely a little better.


----------



## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

David,
Why don't you post a pic of your Roubaix? At 64, it is possible your riding position will evaporate any aero advantage of either a Tarmac or Venge and you are right now on the best bike. I am also an older Roubaix rider and to me the Tarmac is much more friendly overall bike than the Venge.
Further, not to stir up a hornet's nest with Venge lovers here, but many believe the aero advantage to the Venge to be fairy dust unless you are at least a CAT 1 or 2 rider. This is my opinion.
Here is a fun comparison of downhill riding and the non aero bike in the group won the comparison. Summary? Riding position trumps tube profiles. Note: almost nothing between Tarmac and Venge with identical rider geometry:
Specialized Venge, Tarmac SL4, Moots, Fuji Altamira: Head to Head Test - YouTube
Mr. H Bike Test: Cervelo S5 and Pinarello Dogma 65.1 Think 2 - YouTube


----------



## David23 (Jun 5, 2012)

Roadworthy, posting a pic is a good idea. I'll take a photo tomorrow and post it. 
Purdyd I love my Roubaix, it already has Dura Ace and Reynolds Assaults, so not lots to upgrade, and it rides fantastic as is. I have a part time house I'd like to keep another bike in so I don't have to transport the Roubaix when I go there, etc. etc. so I'm using that as rationalization for getting another bike, and wanted something a little different. Since there is more and steeper hills there, I figured I consider something that might help out in that regard.


----------



## dcorn (Sep 1, 2011)

I don't mean to throw "it's not about the bike" in here...

I have an Sworks SL4 Tarmac and my friend with a non-Sworks Roubaix would whoop my ass up every hill in our area. I outweighed him by probably 40-50 lbs, but that's beside the point. 


That said, the Venge is supposed to be every bit as stiff as the Tarmac, just more aero. If you want a bike to be a better climber, get a Tarmac. The Venge is mainly for straight line speed, that's why it's aero. You don't need to cheat the wind when you're doing 10 mph up a 15% grade.


----------



## izza (Jul 25, 2012)

I have owned both and which bike you prefer will depend on solely on you. 

- The headset on the Venge IIRC is higher so may suit your sizing.
- the Tarmac has sharper steering but I found the Venge is smoother through turns. 
- the Venge is as good as the Tarmac at climbing for me. I am a big rider who likes to get out of the saddle regularly. 
- I had gel on the Venge bars and found it more comfortable than the Tarmac. 

For me the Venge made every ride better in terms of enjoyment and (probably not coincidentally) Strava performance. It gave me a broad grin every time I rode and cleaned it.


----------



## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

dcorn said:


> I don't mean to throw "it's not about the bike" in here...
> 
> I have an Sworks SL4 Tarmac and my friend with a non-Sworks Roubaix would whoop my ass up every hill in our area. I outweighed him by probably 40-50 lbs, but that's beside the point.
> 
> ...


+1 Agree


----------



## Typetwelve (Jul 1, 2012)

OP...you may already have the best bike for you.

I've spent quite a bit of time on a SL2 Roubaix and currently own a SL2 Tarmac. I would call neither a bad climber (the Roubaix/group was a bit heavier). I will say you definitely give up some comfort I'm trade for handling with a Tarmac. I've heard the same thing about the Venge-->Tarmac switch...the Venge is even more brutal.

Concerning us mortals...none of the three are really going to make that big of a difference in terms of our performance. It will make a GIANT difference in how the ride feels to us and our own individual comfort levels. I can tell you, SL2 Roubaix to SL2 Tarmac is a good sized move. I love the handling of the bike...but sometimes miss the Roubaix.


----------



## David23 (Jun 5, 2012)

Here's a pic of my Roubaix, hopefully giving some sense of my riding position.


----------



## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

roadworthy said:


> ... Further, not to stir up a hornet's nest with Venge lovers here, but many believe the aero advantage to the Venge to be fairy dust unless you are at least a CAT 1 or 2 rider. This is my opinion. ...


FWIW, the power-loss/drag tests of "aero" bikes I've seen at German TOUR magazine, included a human-like dummy mounted on the bike.
Don't recall if it was TOUR's or someone else's tests, but the dummy was also "dynamic" in the sense the dummy's legs were attached to pedals and spun.

IIRC, the aero bikes typically had a 10-20 watts lower drag at air speeds of ~25 mph. 

And where I live, avg speeds in a masters 60+, 40-45 minute criterium (flat course) are ~25 mph.

IMNSHO, unless you are racing or TTing, or regularly hitting speeds of 25+ mph on flats, the aero bikes aren't worth it.


----------



## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

NJBiker72 said:


> ... Fwiw, Giant acknowledges the Propel is not as stiff as the TCR. Probably similar with Tarmac/Venge. A little extra weight too. Nothing monumental. A guy from our local shop will destroy me every day on his Propel. ...


FWIW, the other day I weighed my 5 yr old Sworks SL2 and my friend's 2014 Giant Propel.
We have same groupset, and although there are some cockpit & wheel differences, those are about a wash.

Turned out the new Propel was slightly heavier than 5 yr old SL2, 16.80 vs 16.50 lbs.

For a 5 yr old frameset, an SL2 can still hold its own ;-)

But on higher speed 35+ mph descents, the Propel's aero advantage does allow it to gradually pull ahead of the SL2. (similar body riding positions, but not "scientifically" identical).

It's telling that on Grand Tours, the GC favorites nearly always ride "standard", not "aero", frames.


----------



## purdyd (Jun 18, 2010)

izza said:


> I have owned both and which bike you prefer will depend on solely on you.
> 
> - The headset on the Venge IIRC is higher so may suit your sizing.
> - the Tarmac has sharper steering but I found the Venge is smoother through turns.
> ...


I didn't realize but after watching the videos roadworthy posted, there was the comment about the venge and the tarmac being essentially the same geometry.

It looks like from the specs they are essentially the same, including the head tube length?

David23, it looks like you will end up in a lower position but I don't think it should be an issue for 50 miles on a fast ride.

The venge looks like a lot of fun so why not?


----------



## 2Slo4U (Feb 12, 2005)

I have both the Venge and the Tarmac. If I'm on the Venge and climbing, I have never thought I could climb faster if I was on the Tarmac. However, if I'm screaming along in a pace line on my Tarmac, I often wonder if it would be a tad less painful if I was on the Venge. 

Both bikes have the same geometry and both are setup the same. The Tarmac is more forgiving, the Venge more harsh. I can do a century on either one without worrying about how I will feel afterwords. Both are very capable bikes. If there is a lot of wind, I will ride the Tarmac. 

I came from a Roubaix and honestly, I couldn't tell much difference between the Tarmac and the Roubaix.....


----------



## r1lee (Jul 22, 2012)

tom_h said:


> FWIW, the other day I weighed my 5 yr old Sworks SL2 and my friend's 2014 Giant Propel.
> We have same groupset, and although there are some cockpit & wheel differences, those are about a wash.
> 
> Turned out the new Propel was slightly heavier than 5 yr old SL2, 16.80 vs 16.50 lbs.
> ...


That's a very heavy propel. Is that the advanced sl?


----------



## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

r1lee said:


> That's a very heavy propel. Is that the advanced sl?


Yes, 2014 Advanced SL frameset, in what Giant calls "medium" frame size. It was built up with Campy Chorus 11 & Campy Bullet Ultra 50 _tube-less_ wheelset.
16.80 lbs

My 2009 S-W SL2 is 56cm frame (very close to Giant's medium), Campy Chorus 11, and Campy Zonda clincher wheelset. It has a Quarq Riken crankset (~ 150g/5.3oz heavier than a Campy crank).
16.47 lbs.

With Zipp 404 _tubular _race wheelset, my SL2 is about 300g / 10oz lighter.


----------



## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

purdyd said:


> David23, it looks like you will end up in a lower position but I don't think it should be an issue for 50 miles on a fast ride.


I'm guessing a (minus) 6-10 degree stem with the stock 4cm of spacers on a Tarmac or Venge would get him to around the same bar height as pictured on the Roubaix. You can always fine tune things by angling the hoods up slightly from there. Plus, the bikes come stock with the stem shims which allow you to adjust stem angles.

That Roubaix setup with 2-3cm of spacers and what looks like a -17 degree stem is not something you see every day. I'd probably drop a spacer or two and run a -6 to -12 degree stem.


----------



## David23 (Jun 5, 2012)

Dunbar said:


> I'm guessing a (minus) 6-10 degree stem with the stock 4cm of spacers on a Tarmac or Venge would get him to around the same bar height as pictured on the Roubaix. You can always fine tune things by angling the hoods up slightly from there. Plus, the bikes come stock with the stem shims which allow you to adjust stem angles.
> 
> That Roubaix setup with 2-3cm of spacers and what looks like a -17 degree stem is not something you see every day. I'd probably drop a spacer or two and run a -6 to -12 degree stem.


Dunbar, I'm still fussing with the stem/bar height configuration, and keep moving the bar lower. I agree the current set up is a little unusual, but it's a work in progress and was a way to try out the position. I suspect your suggestion of -6 to -12 degree stem (rather than the pictured -17) with a little less spacer might be better. I also don't want to cut the steerer until I am certain of what I want.


----------



## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

David23 said:


> Dunbar, I'm still fussing with the stem/bar height configuration, and keep moving the bar lower. I agree the current set up is a little unusual, but it's a work in progress and was a way to try out the position. I suspect your suggestion of -6 to -12 degree stem (rather than the pictured -17) with a little less spacer might be better. I also don't want to cut the steerer until I am certain of what I want.


Well at 64 y.o. your body must still be in pretty good shape as I would say most Roubaixs are set up less aggressive than you are. Therefore, you will have no problem adjusting to the shorter head tube of either the Tarmac or Venge. There is some pretty tall praise of the Venge by owners here and if you keep the Roubaix for longer distances, I say get the Venge as your adrenalin bike. The thing you will have to consider is what size you will get. Because your stem length is so short on your Roubaix, you may want to get the same size Venge/Tarmac and therefore put a more ordinary stem on it...even 0-6 degree flipped up if necessary but may even run the stem flipped down on the shorter head tube if your body can take that position which it apparently can.
Be sure to let us know what you decide.


----------



## btj420 (Mar 20, 2013)

Hey Guys, I'm not new but don't think I have really posted anything or maybe once or twice. I just wanted to put in my two cents about the Venge and Climbing. I own an Sworks venge and have ridden it for quite sometime to understand how it rides. When people argue if one is the better climber or the other it just depends on preference. However there are some differences I would like to point out. I'm going to try and relate this to cars. You are going to have some cars that are the same weight and power but one feels better than the other. I know I have realized the venge can be made as light as any bike out there but it is made to go fast. It can climb just as well as the tarmac but you may have to muscle it more if you are spinning. If you are flying up the hill out of the saddle I don't think it really has a difference. Again I think it is a person preference for one but also depends on the type of climbing and what type of climber you are. Let me know if this makes any sense.


----------



## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

btj420 said:


> Hey Guys, I'm not new but don't think I have really posted anything or maybe once or twice. I just wanted to put in my two cents about the Venge and Climbing. I own an Sworks venge and have ridden it for quite sometime to understand how it rides. When people argue if one is the better climber or the other it just depends on preference. However there are some differences I would like to point out. I'm going to try and relate this to cars. You are going to have some cars that are the same weight and power but one feels better than the other. I know I have realized the venge can be made as light as any bike out there but it is made to go fast. It can climb just as well as the tarmac but you may have to muscle it more if you are spinning. If you are flying up the hill out of the saddle I don't think it really has a difference. Again I think it is a person preference for one but also depends on the type of climbing and what type of climber you are. Let me know if this makes any sense.


Why would you have to muscle a Venge more if spinning? Wouldn't this qualify the bike as not as good a climber as a Tarmac since most climb both in and out of the saddle?


----------



## btj420 (Mar 20, 2013)

When I mean muscle more is that you may have to try and point it in the right direction at slower speeds climbing. It doesn't stay on it's line quite as well at slower speeds. That is why I say if you are just going to hammer it out of the saddle or at a faster pace then the venge will climb just as good as the tarmac.


----------



## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

btj420 said:


> When I mean muscle more is that you may have to try and point it in the right direction at slower speeds climbing. It doesn't stay on it's line quite as well at slower speeds. That is why I say if you are just going to hammer it out of the saddle or at a faster pace then the venge will climb just as good as the tarmac.


Why would that be? Sounds awfully subjective.

The geometry of SL4 vs Venge seems identical, including trail, fork rake, etc.

As I noted above, a 5yr old SL2 can be lighter than a 2014 Giant "aero" Propel, often said to be the modern benchmark in aero frames.

It's probably much harder to get an aero bike at the UCI limit (15 lbs) than it is a conventional frame. If you're a 135 lbs GC contender, a plausible 1-lb equipment difference could be a decisive factor in winning the stage on a 10 mile HC climb -- none of the GC contenders ride an aero frame. In fact I don't recall GC contenders even bother switching bikes on a flattish or rolling stage.


----------



## btj420 (Mar 20, 2013)

Just like any review is subjective. I am only giving my opinion from my own experience. I'm sorry to say even pros give subjective reviews. The only concrete evidence is the weight numbers. Aero numbers seem to be different depending on the manufacturer. Geometry can be the same but doesn't mean the bike will ride the same. Hence the different bikes Venge and Tarmac. About staying on line. If you take a more all around bike and pedal at say 10 mph the venge may feel more "twitchy" if you want to say that than the the all arounder.


I'm sure you can get an aero bike to the UCI limit pretty easily today with how light everything is. Regarding GC contenders. I think the majority of the people on this board are not pro GC contenders who are like finely tuned machines who can tell small veriations. Most likely even the pros don't even notice minute differences. Also, if you're a climber you will figure out a way to climb on the bike you are given. I know we would all like to live vicariously through the pros but sadly to say we can't. I don't know anyone's experience but I'm pretty sure the majority of us don't fall in line with pro riders. 

I hope my opinion will help the OP coming from a normal everyday amateur rider.


----------



## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

tom_h said:


> Why would that be? Sounds awfully subjective.
> 
> The geometry of SL4 vs Venge seems identical, including trail, fork rake, etc.
> 
> ...


Agree with this.


----------



## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

btj420 said:


> Just like any review is subjective. I am only giving my opinion from my own experience. I'm sorry to say even pros give subjective reviews. The only concrete evidence is the weight numbers. Aero numbers seem to be different depending on the manufacturer. Geometry can be the same but doesn't mean the bike will ride the same. Hence the different bikes Venge and Tarmac. About staying on line. If you take a more all around bike and pedal at say 10 mph the venge may feel more "twitchy" if you want to say that than the the all arounder.
> 
> 
> I'm sure you can get an aero bike to the UCI limit pretty easily today with how light everything is. Regarding GC contenders. I think the majority of the people on this board are not pro GC contenders who are like finely tuned machines who can tell small veriations. Most likely even the pros don't even notice minute differences. Also, if you're a climber you will figure out a way to climb on the bike you are given. I know we would all like to live vicariously through the pros but sadly to say we can't. I don't know anyone's experience but I'm pretty sure the majority of us don't fall in line with pro riders.
> ...


Its possible the Venge feels different than the Tarmac when climbing but it isn't related to the geometry...or at least the 2D geometry which is effectively identical between the two bikes as Tom mentioned. But it may pertain to the tube geometry difference. Reality is the Venge can't be nearly as laterally stiff as the Tarmac because the tubes are shaped much more vertically. To create the same lateral stiffness, a lot more weight would have to be added to add lateral tube stiffness with the same aero profile. This changes the flex of the frame while out of the saddle in particular during high watt efforts. The Tarmac is generally touted as the better climbing bike in spite of maybe only a pound increase in weight of the Venge. But that said, I do emphatically agree that his is all noise or fairy dust for the average rider. In fact many believe the new Roubaix SL4 which is a very stiff bike modeled after the Tarmac, climbs as well as the Tarmac. So where do they all fall in if a non pro as you stated isn't counting seconds on the clock? Too close to call and buy the bike you like best. My personal view is the Venge looks the coolest and the Roubaix is most livable day in and the Tarmac is the best all arounder race bike. Other factors like riding position, wheel selection and even gearing matter perhaps more than any difference between these great bikes.


----------



## btj420 (Mar 20, 2013)

Roadworthy, I agree with what you have stated as well. I think there are too many factors that effect how a bike is ridden compared to just looking at numbers. I do agree with you as well the Tarmac is stiffer but then again who can tell.


----------



## David23 (Jun 5, 2012)

roadworthy said:


> Its possible the Venge feels different than the Tarmac when climbing but it isn't related to the geometry...or at least the 2D geometry which is effectively identical between the two bikes as Tom mentioned. But it may pertain to the tube geometry difference. Reality is the Venge can't be nearly as laterally stiff as the Tarmac because the tubes are shaped much more vertically. To create the same lateral stiffness, a lot more weight would have to be added to add lateral tube stiffness with the same aero profile. This changes the flex of the frame while out of the saddle in particular during high watt efforts. The Tarmac is generally touted as the better climbing bike in spite of maybe only a pound increase in weight of the Venge. But that said, I do emphatically agree that his is all noise or fairy dust for the average rider. In fact many believe the new Roubaix SL4 which is a very stiff bike modeled after the Tarmac, climbs as well as the Tarmac. So where do they all fall in if a non pro as you stated isn't counting seconds on the clock? Too close to call and buy the bike you like best. My personal view is the Venge looks the coolest and the Roubaix is most livable day in and the Tarmac is the best all arounder race bike. Other factors like riding position, wheel selection and even gearing matter perhaps more than any difference between these great bikes.


That is also pretty much what I think. I'm not a racer, fast or powerful, I love riding at 64 yrs old, and get out most days doing mixed climbing and flats. Usually I am solo or with one other rider, so I use that rationale, (along with the fact that I am really drawn to the visual aesthetics of the Venge), to get the bike I "want" not "need", that is the Venge. If I hate it, I'll sell it, if I love it, great!


----------



## purdyd (Jun 18, 2010)

David23 said:


> That is also pretty much what I think. I'm not a racer, fast or powerful, I love riding at 64 yrs old, and get out most days doing mixed climbing and flats. Usually I am solo or with one other rider, so I use that rationale, (along with the fact that I am really drawn to the visual aesthetics of the Venge), to get the bike I "want" not "need", that is the Venge. If I hate it, I'll sell it, if I love it, great!


one more thing to consider, with Specialized new Aero is everything announcement, and the tarmac and probably venge due for an update

you might wait until this summer to see what comes out of specialized

Trek's madone got more aero and expect specialized will respond somehow

and you really should get the bike you want


----------



## purdyd (Jun 18, 2010)

tom_h said:


> Why would that be? Sounds awfully subjective.
> 
> The geometry of SL4 vs Venge seems identical, including trail, fork rake, etc.
> 
> ...


I agree with everything you have said,

however GC contenders are in their own world and have a whole team to draft off. In fact I thought I recalled seeing teams with venges and and the GC contenders on tarmacs.

Didn't contador swap bikes for gearing once?

Since most of us don't have a team to pull us along, the idea of the venge is quite appealing. There are times I would take 5 more watts or even one more watt.

I didn't realize how similar the geometry is on the venge to the tarmac. That would get me a bit more excited by the venge as I had written it off as sort of a one trick pony.


----------



## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

purdyd said:


> I agree with everything you have said,
> 
> however GC contenders are in their own world and have a whole team to draft off. In fact I thought I recalled seeing teams with venges and and the GC contenders on tarmacs.
> 
> ...


If you nose around the web, there is a video of a Venge review based upon the chief engineer's comments which were quite revealing. He stated the Venge while aero was created as a performance road bike with aero properties...not a dedicated aero bike.
This for example makes it more livable than a Cervelo S5 which wins the wind tunnel prize but is less comfortable on less than perfect road surfaces.
There is no free lunch when it comes to aero tube sections. Tubes designed to cut the wind will not have a lot of lateral stiffness without adding weight and their tall tube profile compromises ride quality. A big conundrum for designers to solve that riddle for the benefit of a hand full of watts at higher speeds than most amateurs live at.


----------



## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

roadworthy said:


> Well at 64 y.o. your body must still be in pretty good shape as I would say most Roubaixs are set up less aggressive than you are. Therefore, you will have no problem adjusting to the shorter head tube of either the Tarmac or Venge. There is some pretty tall praise of the Venge by owners here and if you keep the Roubaix for longer distances, I say get the Venge as your adrenalin bike. The thing you will have to consider is what size you will get. Because your stem length is so short on your Roubaix, you may want to get the same size Venge/Tarmac and therefore put a more ordinary stem on it...even 0-6 degree flipped up if necessary but may even run the stem flipped down on the shorter head tube if your body can take that position which it apparently can.
> Be sure to let us know what you decide.



I agree with all this. I have both, each set up pretty light, and have never noticed any difference in climbing. I have noticed a difference in terminal speed going down the same hill, it seems to be close to 2 mph (at 39 mph for tarmac consistently and about 41 mph for Venge)....but really, the difference is going to be tiny at normal speeds, and really only useful when you're on the front of the group or off the front. I do think I notice it, but it's within the realm of placebo, it's so modest.
The Tarmac rides a bit better, but neither wears me out at 100 miles.
It may almost come down to aesthetics.


----------



## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

To the OP, from what the seasoned vets had stated, the margin of difference between the Venge and Tarmac are minimal. We're not Tour Pros so we probably won't even see the difference between the two machines. And if you "claim" that there is a significant difference, then maybe its in your head..

After all the money spent on the Venge, of course we all want instant gratification and benefits. Who would want to be classified as a sucker for over spending on machine. Where as if you spend a little less on a Tarmac, you'll reap the same rewards.

Anyways, I guess my point is... Buy what you like. Its your own money. If it makes you happy and allows you to log in more miles, puts a smile on your face....then do it! 

I know if I had the money and resources, I'll definitely would jump on a Venge. Since I don't, my Tarmac will do just fine.. After all, I still get giddy when I click into my pedals!


----------



## izza (Jul 25, 2012)

Irrelevant of where it came from - mental attitude stiffness of BB area or aerodynamics - the performance gain I received via riding my Venge was noticeable. It allowed to jump on the back of faster groups, descend and climb quicker. 

This made my enjoyment grow more than percentage physical gains. I therefore would recommend the Venge to anyone.


----------



## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

izza said:


> Irrelevant of where it came from - mental attitude stiffness of BB area or aerodynamics - the performance gain I received via riding my Venge was noticeable. It allowed to jump on the back of faster groups, descend and climb quicker.
> 
> This made my enjoyment grow more than percentage physical gains. I therefore would recommend the Venge to anyone.


What bike were you coming off of to make this judgement?


----------



## carbonLORD (Aug 2, 2004)

Not much that needs to be added to this thread.

Roubaix SL3, most comfortable.
Tarmac SL3 Best all-rounder.
Roubaix SL4, stiffer, not as comfortable as it's predecessor.
Tarmac SL4, stiffer, still best all-rounder.
Venge, fast, stiff, aero, least comfortable.

I own a 2013 S-Works Venge. It is a 58cm (XL) frame. I have Ultegra Di2 10 speed derilleurs/shifters with a mix of S-Works cranks/54/39 + S-W team rings, DuraAce 11/25 cassette, KMC Back Diamond series chain with ENVE compact bars, ENVE stem and ENVE 6.7 carbon clinchers and it comes in at 15 1/2 lbs so getting a smaller frame lighter should be a piece of cake if that's your mission.

The bike is twitchy at lower than 15mph speeds and stabilizes beyond that. At 24mph the bike resonates a sound that scares off my enemies and puts an evil grin on my face.

I always say to folks "the right tool for the job". I live in Amsterdam, Netherlands, and Chicago, both flat windy regions where I can utilize this bike. If I were more accessible to climbing, I would personally choose the Tarmac which is more stable at climbing speeds and more comfortable for centuries but I have no problem completing centuries on the Venge (and my other bike, which shall not be mentioned takes up that task), it just takes more focus to hold a higher average and not beat myself up beyond 80 miles, especially with all the cobbles in the Netherlands.

I think for the OP, the Tarmac is the right bike for you, but the Venge certainly has the extra sex appeal. Really, you can't go wrong with any of this years S-WORKS models, they are all fantastic in their own right.

I've since slammed the stem but figure you could use the eye candy.

https://carbonlord.com/VENGE_.jpg


----------



## willieboy (Nov 27, 2010)

I candy for sure  just gorgeous!


----------



## izza (Jul 25, 2012)

roadworthy said:


> What bike were you coming off of to make this judgement?


A S-works SL3 Tarmac.


----------



## David23 (Jun 5, 2012)

willieboy said:


> I candy for sure  just gorgeous!


+1. Carbonlord, that is a beautiful bike. Congratualtions.


----------



## David23 (Jun 5, 2012)

I have really appreciated all the feedback to my original question, thank you to all who contributed. For me, the "want" factor, visual aesthetics, and all the other intangibles of buying a new bike that isn't really "needed", led me to buy a gently preowned S Works Venge frame with crankset. I'll take my time and enjoy the process of selecting components and having the bike built up. Current thought is Dura Ace 9000 or 7900 depending on what I can find in a take off or lightly used set of medium aero wheels. Zipp Firecrest 404, Roval Rapide CL 60, or ? I'm open to input. 
I've attached a pic of the frame. I deliberately wanted the color version rather than black, as my SW Roubaix is black, and I thought it would be nice to have a different look. I'm excited, and look forward to my own Venge experiences.


----------



## carbonLORD (Aug 2, 2004)

Good deal and congrats on the purchase. Given the color scheme and options, go with a full Zipp cockpit and 404's. You won't regret it. Also, 7900 can be had a great value with little sacrifice in terms of performance so you should be able to spend the extra saved on some other bits (saddle, pedals, etc). Keep us posted on the build. I enjoy building em almost as much as I do racing em!


----------



## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

7900 doesn't have the greatest reputation when it comes to shift quality (although the new 9000 cables will make a big difference IME.) I'd personally go with Ultegra 6800 over DA 7900.


----------

