# impact of 35 degree stem



## DrDitto (Oct 4, 2008)

LBS ordered me a 35-degree stem to get the handlebars higher on my Orbea Onix. This will make the geometry essentially match the Cannondale Synapse (which felt more comfortable). 

Any impact on the steerability of the bike with a 35-degree stem? Should I just get the Synapse with the taller head tube?


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## acckids (Jan 2, 2003)

Do you know the maker of the 35 degree stem? Salsa makes a 25 degree stem.


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## DrDitto (Oct 4, 2008)

acckids said:


> Do you know the maker of the 35 degree stem? Salsa makes a 25 degree stem.


Eleven81

http://www.eleven81.com/

Original stem is a Zeus one. Probably not quite an even exchange.


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## pdh777 (Oct 7, 2005)

What is the angle of the orginal stem? If it was a standard 6 or even a 10 degree and that's what the bike maker intended for the bike, there will be a major difference in front end handling. That is with all things being equal ie. stem length. 
On the other hand you would have to extend the length considerably to make a 35 handle like a standard degree stem.


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## DrDitto (Oct 4, 2008)

*anyone using a 25-35 angle stem?*

Anyone else here ride with a stem angled 25-35 degrees?


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*info...*



DrDitto said:


> Anyone else here ride with a stem angled 25-35 degrees?


The angle won't affect your steering, but it's easy to overlook the effect of the extreme rise on the horizontal stem length. A 110mm stem would only have a horizontal length of 82mm, so it's nearly three sizes shorter than an normal 110mm stem.

IMO, it you've got to use a bunch of spacers and that sort of extreme stem angle, the frame either doesn't fit, or you're trying to produce a very upright and cramped "recreational" fit, that is not like the typical road bike fit.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

how about a +90-degree rise stem?


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## DrDitto (Oct 4, 2008)

C-40 said:


> The angle won't affect your steering, but it's easy to overlook the effect of the extreme rise on the horizontal stem length. A 110mm stem would only have a horizontal length of 82mm, so it's nearly three sizes shorter than an normal 110mm stem.
> 
> IMO, it you've got to use a bunch of spacers and that sort of extreme stem angle, the frame either doesn't fit, or you're trying to produce a very upright and cramped "recreational" fit, that is not like the typical road bike fit.


Basically a 25-30 degree stem will make the Orbea Onix fit like the Cannondale Synapse. Would you consider the Synapse as a "recreational" fit?


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## acckids (Jan 2, 2003)

Comparing the Onix geometry and the Synapse geometry is a challenge. What size Onix do you have? The sizes somewhat dovetail into one another. 

In your situation, I would determine the longest top tube you could ride with a 90mm stem. The longer the top tube, usually, the longer the head tube.

Another option would be swap out the fork with a Alpha Q. Alpha Q allows more spacers which would get your handlebar height up. 

I have ridden a 25 degree angle stem on a bike with a 73.5 head tube angle and it handled well. A 35 degree angle really shortens your reach but you will only know after you try it. I would try the stem first; then consider a new fork with more spacers or the Synapse.


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## acckids (Jan 2, 2003)

I think the "recreational" fit C-40 is referring to would be a hybrid type bike. The Synapse and Onix are peformance oriented with comfort factored in.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*???*



DrDitto said:


> Basically a 25-30 degree stem will make the Orbea Onix fit like the Cannondale Synapse. Would you consider the Synapse as a "recreational" fit?


The fit is deteremined by the frame reach, the stem length and angle and the resulting handlebar height. A Synapse has a 2cm taller head tube than the racier model frames, so the maximum and minimum handlebar heights are 2cm higher, with a given spacer stack and stem angle.

If you provided more information on the sizes that you are comparing and the desired handlebar height or saddle to bar drop, then I could provide more help.

The simple answer is that a frame with a 2cm shorter headtube must have 2cm more spacer under the stem or about 11 degrees more stem angle to get the bars up to the same height. If you've got to use the maximum amount of spacer and a 35 degree stem angle, you've either selected the wrong frame size or you are trying to create a very short and tall recreational setup that is not intended for this frame.

Personally, even a +10 degree angle is more than I would ever recommend.


http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/09/cusa/model-9RCS6C_9RCS6T.html

http://www.orbea-usa.com/fly.aspx?layout=bikes&taxid=57&pid=139


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## DrDitto (Oct 4, 2008)

Yes, the 2008 58cm Synapse as a head tube that measures 20cm and the 2008 57cm Onix has a head tube that measures 18cm. I am 6'1" tall, 215 pounds. Slightly longer legs...shorter arms. 34" inseam I think. If I recall, arms are 25.5". 

If I measure from the front hub to the handle bar, the Synapse is about 66cm and the Onix is about 62.5-63cm. Of course my measurements are eye-balled and probably have some error. So 2cm is from the head tube and an additional 1 cm probably comes from the Synapse having a longer stem right now (110mm vs. 90mm??). 

Right now the Onix has a 90mm stem (7-degrees I think).

Other than that, both bikes are quite similar. I measured a 0.5" longer wheelbase on the Synapse. Top tube lengths are similar (57.5-58cm).

The LBS has both a 90mm 15-degree stem on order and a 90mm 35-degree stem on order. They've put in a lot of effort into making this sale, so I'm compelled to give them the benefit of the doubt...but I'm tempted to go get the Synapse instead even though I have money down on the Onix. 

Synapse has Mavic Aksium wheels instead of Shimano RS10 wheels. Onix has a full carbon seat tube...Synapse is "carbon covered". Both are 105 bikes, but Onix throws in an Ultegra rear deraillur.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*more info...*

The Onix will require one size (10mm) longer stem than the C'dale, to produce the same fit, in addition to more stem rise. More length is good, unless a 130mm stem isn't long enough.

One thing to keep in mind is that that position that the store sets you up with is likely to change as you gain experience and fitness. A beginner might start out with the bars about 5cm (2 inches) lower than the saddle, but increase that to 10cm or more during the course of the first 1-2 years. 

A 34 inch (86cm) cycling inseam (not pants inseam) would be on the short side for your height. If that's accurate, you'd only have about a 76-77cm saddle height and even the shorter 180mm head tube should be tall enough, without resorting to a 35 degree stem.

One common mistake is moving the saddle too far forward in a effort to reduce reach, which upsets your balance over the saddle. A long-torsoed rider will need the saddle fairly far back to keep weight off the hands and make more drop tolerable.


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