# Standard double or compact for N. California?



## tron (Jul 18, 2004)

What is the preference for the area? I am new to roadbiking and I know little about the differences


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## bc165 (Aug 5, 2003)

Unless you're very strong and fit... or you only ride in the flats, get the compact. I'm partial to the 50-36, but lots of people like the more common 50-34.


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## Merlin (May 6, 2002)

I just switched to compact after 4 years with a standard set up. My coach had been nagging me for over a year to with a compact so I could do longer rider with lots of climbing with out burning out.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

Norcal has hills. Norcal has a lot of hills. Most are moderately steep, some are very steep.

I'm in climbing shape and I have a 15 lb. bike. I had a 39/53 chainring with a 12/25 on my road bike.

Anyway, I recently got a cross bike and I got to try a compact crankset. Well I like it so much, I've put it on my normal roadbike as well. Both bikes now have a 34/50 front chainring.

The 34 tooth small ring just means I can get good cadence on almost any hill, even on my bad days. And the bonus which I totally didn't expect is I can stay in my big ring longer. Some rolling rides now, I'm in the big ring the whole time. This means I'm more focused on pedaling and less on changing the front ring.

Long story short, I'm sold on the compact crankset now. Shimano finally started making one. Campagnolo is putting a lot of marketing effort behind their new compact cranks. 

I believe in 5 years, the majority of all bikes sold will have compact chainrings. They just make more sense. They will also minimize the need for triple chainrings.

francois


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## thinkcooper (Jan 5, 2005)

francois said:


> Norcal has hills. Norcal has a lot of hills. Most are moderately steep, some are very steep.
> 
> I'm in climbing shape and I have a 15 lb. bike. I had a 39/53 chainring with a 12/25 on my road bike.
> 
> ...



So how was it descending down Soquel/Old San Jose on Saturday? Were you spinning out? You didn't happen to track your cadence on the ride, didja?

It was pretty impressive to watch you maintain a good spin on the climbs. You puzzled me a bit on Eureka when I watched you jump that first steep pitch, with your chain midway in your cogs, then it dawned on me - compact...


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## rensho (Aug 5, 2003)

Coop, keep in mind that a 50-11 is 3.5 gear inches taller than a 53-12. So most people ride 39/53 with a 12/25 in back...Francois is pedaling a higher and lower gear than you at the end of the day.
I see you're riding a DA 7800 crank, so no compact. I really want Shimano to make that darn crank in compact so i can buy one.

I was riding 53/39 11/23, but on the descent, i didn't get into the 11.

Tron, you could easily get away with a 53/39 12/25 setup or even 12/27, but a compact and 11/23 works really well and will get you home better at the end of a 70 miler when you're climbing up Tunitas Creek.


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## goose127 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Go with the compact*

I have never heard anyone complain about having too many extra gears while climbing. If you have a 11-23 cassette on the back, then its similar to a standard double with a 12-25. Another option is to go with a 12-27 in the back and a standard double. That gives you about the same gearing as a 12-25 and a compact, but there are some jumps in the cogs. If you go to the FSA website they have gearing comparisons with a variety of cranks and cogs.

I do not have one for myself but I will probably get one in the next year or so for one of my bikes, and to help see if I can improve my cadence and stay at about the same speed while climbing.


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## rensho (Aug 5, 2003)

Not to be arguementative Goose, the 11/23 with compact is equal to the std and 12/27. 39.9 VS 39.0 gear inches.
the 25 is 42 gear inches.
Best to doublecheck my math via Sheldbrown's website. I could have been wrong when i built my spreadsheet.


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## Boardmill (Oct 15, 2005)

For me the compact is definitely the call. I weigh about 200 lbs., but I absolutely love to climb. With 50/34 and 12/25 the gearing is a much better match for the terrian I am riding, especially the steep stuff. 

Like Francois said an ancilary benefit is you can spend more time in the big ring. I think there are a few keys to the compact: one, set your front derailure up carefully, especially if you are doing the 16 tooth jump; two, keep your cadence up where it needs to be. You should be able to get a one push upshift in the front with almost any derailure, it just takes a bit longer to adjust that out compared with a 14 tooth jump. I have also ridden with some guys who go compact but keep the same old 55 rpm climbing cadence they were using with standard crankset. 

While it is nice to have the option to ease up and/ or have a rest gear, climbing at the same old RPM with a smaller gear is not going to help your fitness much or your ride times. Obviously, if doing this allows you to ride more miles then before, then it is all good.

Again, I like the 50/34, but the 50/36 may work best for you. 16 teeth can be a big downshift in the front, so I usually shift the rear simultaniously towards a little higher gear (smaller cog); that is unless I'm coming up on something that gets really steep in a hurry.


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## thinkcooper (Jan 5, 2005)

rensho said:


> Coop, keep in mind that a 50-11 is 3.5 gear inches taller than a 53-12. So most people ride 39/53 with a 12/25 in back...Francois is pedaling a higher and lower gear than you at the end of the day.
> I see you're riding a DA 7800 crank, so no compact. I really want Shimano to make that darn crank in compact so i can buy one.
> 
> I was riding 53/39 11/23, but on the descent, i didn't get into the 11.


You were pushing a 39/23 up Eureka? Nice work. Is that what you're typically climbing with? I'm going to have to check out the FSA site. I'd love a smaller climbing gear. My 12/27 is decent, but I can see how a lttle more spin would be great.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

thinkcooper said:


> You were pushing a 39/23 up Eureka? Nice work. Is that what you're typically climbing with? I'm going to have to check out the FSA site. I'd love a smaller climbing gear. My 12/27 is decent, but I can see how a lttle more spin would be great.


I was also running 39x23 on Eureka. I only used my 25 on the lower steep pitch section of Eureka, the steep part of Hames, and the steep part of Laurel. If I were ten pounds lighter like I used to be, I would never use my 25. And francois and the boys wouldn't be dropping me on climbs, either. 

We should all plan to do the <a href="http://www.santacruzcycling.org/scmc/2006/index.shtml">Santa Cruz Mountains Challenge</a> in August to take those compacts out for a real test!


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## thinkcooper (Jan 5, 2005)

mohair_chair said:


> I was also running 39x23 on Eureka. I only used my 25 on the lower steep pitch section of Eureka, the steep part of Hames, and the steep part of Laurel. If I were ten pounds lighter like I used to be, I would never use my 25. And francois and the boys wouldn't be dropping me on climbs, either.
> 
> We should all plan to do the <a href="http://www.santacruzcycling.org/scmc/2006/index.shtml">Santa Cruz Mountains Challenge</a> in August to take those compacts out for a real test!


So, in a roundabout way, you're saying that if I commit to the SC Mtn. Challenge, then I could internally justify buying a FSA Compact MegaEXO K-force?


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

thinkcooper said:


> So, in a roundabout way, you're saying that if I commit to the SC Mtn. Challenge, then I could internally justify buying a FSA Compact MegaEXO K-force?


Hand the phone to your wife, and I'll tell her myself.


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## thinkcooper (Jan 5, 2005)

mohair_chair said:


> Hand the phone to your wife, and I'll tell her myself.


It's good to know I can count on friends. But what's your story?


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

thinkcooper said:


> It's good to know I can count on friends. But what's your story?


It will be something about you being chased by the mob because of some old debt, or maybe because a vendetta that goes back several generations. Or maybe you were supposed to whack a guy, but you chickened out, left town, and changed your name. Whatever. You're a wanted man, and that's all that matters. They're chasing you on bikes for some unknown reason, and you need to climb better to escape, so you can provide for your family. I'll spin it. Don't worry. I suggest you work her through a bottle of wine first. Something pretty potent, like Bonny Doon Framboise.


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## thinkcooper (Jan 5, 2005)

mohair_chair said:


> It will be something about you being chased by the mob because of some old debt, or maybe because a vendetta that goes back several generations. Or maybe you were supposed to whack a guy, but you chickened out, left town, and changed your name. Whatever. You're a wanted man, and that's all that matters. They're chasing you on bikes for some unknown reason, and you need to climb better to escape, so you can provide for your family. I'll spin it. Don't worry. I suggest you work her through a bottle of wine first. Something pretty potent, like Bonny Doon Framboise.


Okay. That should work. Here's the phone. One last thing, you think you could spin that whole van full of gray haired old ladies thingie to my advantage as well?


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

thinkcooper said:


> Okay. That should work. Here's the phone. One last thing, you think you could spin that whole van full of gray haired old ladies thingie to my advantage as well?


Sorry kid, you're on your own there.


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## rensho (Aug 5, 2003)

thinkcooper said:


> You were pushing a 39/23 up Eureka? Nice work. Is that what you're typically climbing with? I'm going to have to check out the FSA site. I'd love a smaller climbing gear. My 12/27 is decent, but I can see how a lttle more spin would be great.


Yep, that is my typical gearing. I do want to get a compact though and keep running the 11/23. I had a compact on there 3 months ago, and that was nice while it lasted (problem with crank). Personally, I wouldn't get a FSA, but i'll take that offline.


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## Merlin (May 6, 2002)

rensho said:


> . I really want Shimano to make that darn crank in compact so i can buy one.
> .


They do make a compact , that what I bought


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## rensho (Aug 5, 2003)

Merlin said:


> They do make a compact , that what I bought


The referred crank is a Shimano DA compact crank. You're saying they make one of those?


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## Merlin (May 6, 2002)

rensho said:


> The referred crank is a Shimano DA compact crank. You're saying they make one of those?


It's just called Shimano compact, not DA


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## rensho (Aug 5, 2003)

Merlin said:


> It's just called Shimano compact, not DA


It sure is, and it's 140g heavier than the std DA10 crank. Some folks don't care about that.
We're talking the same thing right? DA=Dura Ace?

Anyhoo, I hope they come out with a DA compact at some point. Not like it is rocket science or needs a whole lot of R&D $$$.


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## Merlin (May 6, 2002)

rensho said:


> We're talking the same thing right? DA=Dura Ace?
> 
> .


Yes samething. I had the DA 9 speed, and switched to 10 speed with the compcat cranks. Yeah it's a little heavier, INMHO it does not matter unless it's part of the rotation weight. I got on the podium at the Sea Otter Circuit race my first race with the new cranks! I'm sure it was because of the cranks!


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## Metz (Aug 31, 2005)

*Another vote for the compact*

Every ride I do out here in the East Bay has some climbing and the "flat" and short rides have at least 500 feet of up and down. I recently built up a bike with a compact for doing the Death Ride and yesterday I did Diablo twice with an average cadence of 71 using a 12-25 with the compact. If any of you No Cal'ers are feeling frisky I'm working up to a 4 or 5 x Diablo effort, so let me know if you want to join me and my partners as we'll be hitting the mountain almost every weekend!

I will say it depends on a lot of factors (style, age, how long and steep your climbs are, etc). I have one friend who climbs at about the same pace as I do and he rides a standard with a 11-23. I have another who went from a standard with a 11-23 to a 12-27 and he's climbing better. I find that I'm able to feel a lot fresher late into rides, but I'm probably sacrificing some speed. Right now I'm gunning for endurance and the compact is king, but I did start a thread looking for an 11-25 to go with my compact because I miss the 53-12 on the rollers!


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## smw (Mar 7, 2006)

Francis or Thomas, I have a triple ring on my roadie. When I climb Hicks I struggle even in the small ring. Have you guys climbed Hicks with the compact or Thomas with the double? Most climbs around here Im fine in the middle ring, but I am still using that small ring at times. :idea: Maybe if I just get rid of the small ring I will climb in what I have. By the way I took Crazy Andy up Hicks on his fixie. Yep, he suffered a bit.


Sean

ps, the top of the page suggested I post here.


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## tron (Jul 18, 2004)

*follow-up*

Just as a follow-up to my original post I ended up with a compact and last weekend took it out for my first long ride which included climbing Kings Mountain Road. I found myself dropping into the low gear at times, I think it is a habit from using the granny on my mountain bike. At times I was regretting not getting a triple but afterwards realized that i would get stronger. Also, I have a 25 tooth cassette that I will replace with a 27 if things get too bad.
Otherwise I am glad that I went with the compact.


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## smw (Mar 7, 2006)

Can you use the same components with the Compacts as a triple? Or do you need to change derailers or shifters?

Sean


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## tmanley (Jul 31, 2005)

*Hicks...*



smw said:


> Francis or Thomas, I have a triple ring on my roadie. When I climb Hicks I struggle even in the small ring. Have you guys climbed Hicks with the compact or Thomas with the double?


I use a 50/34 compact with a 12-25 cassette and have climbed both sides of Hicks many times with this combo. On the south side I don't have to get out of the saddle at all, but on the steeper north side I might spend about 25% of my time out of the saddle to get up the steep pitches. However, I know I'm getting stronger because my last ride up I did it seated the whole time.


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## smw (Mar 7, 2006)

tmanley said:


> I use a 50/34 compact with a 12-25 cassette and have climbed both sides of Hicks many times with this combo. On the south side I don't have to get out of the saddle at all, but on the steeper north side I might spend about 25% of my time out of the saddle to get up the steep pitches. However, I know I'm getting stronger because my last ride up I did it seated the whole time.



I was out of the saddle in my small ring yesterday.:cryin: Geeze that hill is brutal.
I havent been riding enough as yesterday was harder for me than the first time I did it 2 months ago. Guess Ill have to ride it once a week and then go compact. 

Sean


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## [email protected] (Sep 23, 2005)

standard (39/53) with a 13 - 29 works great for me. Shifting is flawless.
SMW... you ride a single speed off road right? You should be able to handle a double


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## smw (Mar 7, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> standard (39/53) with a 13 - 29 works great for me. Shifting is flawless.
> SMW... you ride a single speed off road right? You should be able to handle a double



Yes I do, but Im not in climbing shape I guess. Gonna have to inflict some torture on my legs over the next couple of weeks to snap em out of there lazy state.:mad2: How did this happen so quickly? Gotta stay on the road bike more, Ive been watching hockey instead of riding. 

Sean


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## [email protected] (Sep 23, 2005)

smw said:


> Can you use the same components with the Compacts as a triple? Or do you need to change derailers or shifters?
> 
> Sean


It depends on which shifters you have and which crank you're after. The short answer is yes, but there are some variables that would change the answer to "kinda"


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## smw (Mar 7, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> It depends on which shifters you have and which crank you're after. The short answer is yes, but there are some variables that would change the answer to "kinda"



I believe they are 105's. I have a new Trek 1500, but am looking at a Look 585, hopefully business picks up and I can splurge on a new ride by the end of the year. 


Sean


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## [email protected] (Sep 23, 2005)

smw said:


> Yes I do, but Im not in climbing shape I guess. Gonna have to inflict some torture on my legs over the next couple of weeks to snap em out of there lazy state.:mad2: How did this happen so quickly? Gotta stay on the road bike more, Ive been watching hockey instead of riding.
> 
> Sean


I hear ya...
It's a nice day and we have a ride leaving the shop at 6, but I just want to go home, pop in a movie, crack an IPA and get horizontal on the couch. Problem is, I've been doing more of that than riding lately.


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## [email protected] (Sep 23, 2005)

smw said:


> I believe they are 105's. I have a new Trek 1500, but am looking at a Look 585, hopefully business picks up and I can splurge on a new ride by the end of the year.
> 
> 
> Sean


If you go with a Shimano compact crank you will not need to change anything else. I fyou use an FSA or some similar crank, you'll need to go with a compact front derailluer.... actually, you could probably get away with using your triple front der...

Let me know on the 585... Unless you have a favorite shop that you would like to get your bike from. I can get you a better deal than most. check out the website http://www.wrenchscience.com/WS1/Look/Bikes.html

If you play around with the site and save any builds, make sure you save them to my name :thumbsup: 

-Dennis aka velocipus on mtbr...


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## smw (Mar 7, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> I hear ya...
> It's a nice day and we have a ride leaving the shop at 6, but I just want to go home, pop in a movie, crack an IPA and get horizontal on the couch. Problem is, I've been doing more of that than riding lately.




Yeah, the IPA's have been my downfall, dang things are so goood.:idea: Lets get an IPA and talk about it. See how that happens?

Sean


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

I'm running a DA 7800 front derailleur and a 50/34 FSA compact, and it shifts just fine.


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## [email protected] (Sep 23, 2005)

ericm979 said:


> I'm running a DA 7800 front derailleur and a 50/34 FSA compact, and it shifts just fine.


I am surprised. You are one of the lucky ones.


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## sungchang (Sep 20, 2005)

smw said:


> Can you use the same components with the Compacts as a triple? Or do you need to change derailers or shifters?
> 
> Sean


Hey Sean, I have Compact on my roadie. When I inquired several shops about switching from Compact to triple, it involved switching out so many components (shifters, front derailleur, crankset, rear derailleur and chain) that I gave up. One thing that I did was switch my rear to 12-27 from 12-25 that it came with. Those extra two teeths seem to make a difference. But I'm not in anywhere shape that you guys are. I haven't tried Hicks yet. I am slowly building myself up before doing it. But I digress. Not sure how much component changes will be required by moving from triple to compact.


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## [email protected] (Sep 23, 2005)

*Clarification*



sungchang said:


> Hey Sean, I have Compact on my roadie. When I inquired several shops about switching from Compact to triple, it involved switching out so many components (shifters, front derailleur, crankset, rear derailleur and chain) that I gave up. One thing that I did was switch my rear to 12-27 from 12-25 that it came with. Those extra two teeths seem to make a difference. But I'm not in anywhere shape that you guys are. I haven't tried Hicks yet. I am slowly building myself up before doing it. But I digress. Not sure how much component changes will be required by moving from triple to compact.


Shimano 105 10 speed shifters are double/ triple chainring compatible as are Ultegra 10sp, 105 and Ultegra 9spd and Tiagra.

a long cage rear derailluer will work for compact or triple. A medium cage rear der will work (well) for many compact double configurations. 

In the "old days" one would use a triple front derailleur to get the front to shift. Some have luck with using a standard front derailleur and the Shimano compact crank calls for a standard front der. Campy, FSA and IRD make compact specific front derailleurs.

The shops you talked to were kinda accurate, but I don't think they gave you the whole story.
What kind of shifters do you have Sungchang? 8, 9, or 10 speed?


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## rensho (Aug 5, 2003)

Sean, much fewer changes with a Compact.
I've ridden the south side of Hicks on a triple(11/23), double(12/25 and 11/23) and compact(11/23). Not all in the same timeframe, nor fitness level, but close.
Personally, i think triples shift like crapola. Depending on which triple you get, you may end up with a 42 middle ring like i did, which really sucks.

For me, it is compact(11/23) all the way. I went up the north side recently on a double(11/23). That was hard, but just doable.

I think you can ride a compact up either side with 12/25. All your SS has helped more than you know. You're stronger than you give yourself credit.


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## sungchang (Sep 20, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Shimano 105 10 speed shifters are double/ triple chainring compatible as are Ultegra 10sp, 105 and Ultegra 9spd and Tiagra.
> 
> a long cage rear derailluer will work for compact or triple. A medium cage rear der will work (well) for many compact double configurations.
> 
> ...


I have the Ultegra 10sp shifters (& front derailleur, rear derailleur, cassette and chain) with FSA compact crankset. The components came stock on 05 Litespeed Teramo. The shops that I talked to all said that it was too cost prohitive, so I stopped checking around  So are you saying that it's possible to swap out the FSA compact crankset to a Ultegra triple crankset and still retain other components? If that's so, I might seriously have to look into this


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## sungchang (Sep 20, 2005)

I did north side of Hicks yesterday on my compact (12-27). Boy that was a workout. At my current shape and weight, I was wishing for triple all the way up though


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## [email protected] (Sep 23, 2005)

sungchang said:


> I have the Ultegra 10sp shifters (& front derailleur, rear derailleur, cassette and chain) with FSA compact crankset. The components came stock on 05 Litespeed Teramo. The shops that I talked to all said that it was too cost prohitive, so I stopped checking around  So are you saying that it's possible to swap out the FSA compact crankset to a Ultegra triple crankset and still retain other components? If that's so, I might seriously have to look into this


I'm sorry Sungchang... i thought you wanted to go the other way around.
Your shifters will work..
you will have to change the front derailluer and the rear derailluer as I assume it is a medium cage der.

I'm going to try to talk you out of going to a triple as well.... only because there is far more potential for shifting issues with triples than there are with compacts. can you go to a bigger casette (12 - 27?)


EDIT: I just read a more recent post from you... you do have the 12 - 27...
well, you'll just need to change the derailleurs and cranks (bottom bracket is integrated to cranks)


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## sungchang (Sep 20, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> I'm sorry Sungchang... i thought you wanted to go the other way around.
> Your shifters will work..
> you will have to change the front derailluer and the rear derailluer as I assume it is a medium cage der.
> 
> ...


Hehe, no problem. Staying with double compact is going to be better for me anyway although during climbs I will be wishing I had the triple  

Quick question, is there going to be performance difference between the new Ultegra compact crankset vs. FSA Gossamer compact crankset. The shifting in the front isn't as crisp as I want with the FSA.


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## grrrah (Jul 22, 2005)

hey its mtbr... 

I have only ridden hicks once, and I struggled up it with a compact. 36/26. Had to zig zag up a good portion of it. I'm weak. That was last year when I had only been on a road bike for about 6 months. Would like to try again soon, but its mtb season


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## rensho (Aug 5, 2003)

shooo, shooo...

This is a roadie forum.


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