# Open tubular clinchers with latex tubes; vs tubular tires



## Erik_A (Sep 14, 2008)

*Open tubular CX clinchers with latex tubes; vs tubular tires for cyclocross*

What do you guys think about "open tubular" clinchers with latex tubes (for CX); vs tubulars. The Challenge versions have a very similar high TPI cotton casing (like the tubular versions). I can run fairly low pressures (on my Challenge Grifo "open tubular" clinchers) with the latex tubes, but since I weigh over 200#s, it is in the 20s not the teens. Either way, they ride very well, and I can't see going back to tubular for myself. Has anyone heard of any pros racing "open tubular" clinchers?

Technology


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

Pros racing open tubs? Not in races. Why would they? They have multiple wheelsets with tubs glued up. What would be the advantage? Tubeless? Yeah, a very small handful are starting to use that technology. Some might do open tubs for training. But who cares what the pros are racing? Use what works for you, your time and your budget, unless you are getting paid to race.


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## jroden (Jun 15, 2004)

I have a sneaking suspicion that riding around on soft, squirmy tires might be slower for many riders, I know it is for me because I lack confidence when I feel the sidewall let loose. A more experience rider might get more out of them, but for me I'm going to use a tubeless at maybe 28 psi and not worry about it


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

For cross I run Challenge clinchers almost exclusively. At 175lbs I can run in the low 20s without much trouble and the tires handle beautifully.

I suspect that latex tubes are the main reason tubulars usually flat less than clinchers. Although some still swear that tubular is the only way to go, tubulars with latex vs. clinchers with butyl is hardly a fair comparison.


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## Erik_A (Sep 14, 2008)

> I've had a Limus bead pop off the rim under hard turning. Which is kind of a bummer.
> 
> In my opinion, there is still no substitute for tubulars for racing cross.


Wow- I have not heard of a properly seated tire's bead popping off the rim, that defeats the purpose for sure! Are there any other manufacturers making a similar cotton casing clincher, with better results in use?


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Erik_A said:


> Wow- I have not heard of a properly seated tire's bead popping off the rim, that defeats the purpose for sure! Are there any other manufacturers making a similar cotton casing clincher, with better results in use?


I had a properly seated Grifo bead pull off last year in a race. Combo of low pressure and a really hard turn. The side wall got eaten by the brake shoe before I realized what was happening and the tire was ruined (my race too as I was very far from the pits).


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## Erik_A (Sep 14, 2008)

Has anyone tried the Vittoria 320tpi cross clinchers?
Cyclocross « Categories « Vittoria


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

Aren't Vittoria's clincher versions all 150 TPI?

I've had two Challenge clinchers roll on me in essentially in crashes -- one front, one rear -- but I wouldn't blame the tire in either instance. Basically, the tread caught while the wheel was sliding sideways; it was roll the tire or taco the wheel. Besides, it's not like tubulars don't roll off!


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## bikesinmud (Jan 1, 2005)

Im using both, latex with open tubulars for road and cx. Cross is not my main sport, I do it but mostly for fun and full set of tubulars aren't in my budget at the moment. Mounting is a lesson in patience for sure, use a regular tube to get the tire to conform and stretch out before trying to sneak a 15$ tube in there. I've popped two tubes before figuring this out, you can do it but its a 2 person job. Challenge open tubulars take awhile to stretch out but once they do they are just as easy to swap tubes as a regular tire. I have the Fango open tubulars which are 300 tpi, quite supple and hold a good line at 30psi for this 170lb rider.


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## urbiksux (Apr 7, 2010)

I can speak to the Vittoria issue. I used a TNT Vittoria XG 32mm tire tubeless on A23 rims. It sets up flawlessly. It holds air perfectly. It is 150 tpi, but not normal 150 bc some of the threads are laid up differently, making it stiffer. So it has great flat protection, but it isn't very supple, which defeats the point of running tubeless. And the narrow 32mm width is darn narrow.


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## Erik_A (Sep 14, 2008)

There is a great discussion going on in the forum at CX Magazine regarding tires (Tubular, Open Tubular, and Tubeless options): Best all around cyclocross tubular - Cyclocross Magazine


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## PG_Gary (Jan 21, 2008)

JohnStonebarger said:


> I suspect that latex tubes are the main reason tubulars usually flat less than clinchers.


Why would latex tubes be preferable? Are they less prone to pinch flatting? Would it be advantageous to run sealant in the tubes as a precaution?


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

Latex tubes are much less prone to flatting, either due to pinches or punctures, because they're 7 times more stretchy than butyl. This is also why they offer lower rolling resistance.

Honestly, the only time I would use butyl is on a commuter -- when the inconvenience of pumping up the tire with a latex tube before each ride outways all the advantages. (On a related note, use butyl for spares if you use CO2 on the road -- latex won't hold CO2 for long at all.)


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## PG_Gary (Jan 21, 2008)

Thanks for the insight!


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