# Actual tire widths thread ... please contribute!



## tarwheel2

Let's start a thread on actual tire widths, since manufacturers appear loath to make tires that actually conform to their specs. I bought a caliper measuring tool this weekend and have been measuring all of my tires, with some real surprises. Listed by brand, size and type of wheel:

- Vittoria Rubinos, 700x25, measure exactly 25 mm wide on Mavic Open Pro rims
- Vittoria Randonneur Hypers, 700x32, measure 34 mm wide on Velocity Dyad rims

- Continental GP 4 Seasons, 700x28, measure 26.5 mm wide on DT Swiss 465 rims

- Torelli open clinchers, 700x23, measure 24 mm wide on Mavic Open Pros

I was surprised by the Vittorias because the Rubinos always looked narrow to me for 25s, but they were spot on. The Hypers were actually fatter than billed.

The Conti GP 4 Seasons irk me. Why call a tire a 28 that measures only 26 mm wide? A bit of a scam, it seems to me. They are great tires but if I buy a 28, I want it to measure that wide.

I've got Michelin Pro2 Race 25s on another bike that I will measure later (at the shop), but I know that they run wide.


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## Mike T.

tarwheel2 said:


> - Continental GP 4 Seasons, 700x28, measure 26.5 mm wide on DT Swiss 465 rims
> The Conti GP 4 Seasons irk me. Why call a tire a 28 that measures only 26 mm wide? A bit of a scam, it seems to me. They are great tires but if I buy a 28, I want it to measure that wide.


I have some Conti 4-Season 28's also and I bought them because I wanted true 28's for dirt road riding. They measure just 26mm on my OP rims. I thought they were mis-labeled as other people have said theirs were wider. I just assumed it was because of my OP rim width.

My 25mm Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX are actually wider than the 4-season - at 26.2mm. Go figure.

Tire width is a bit of a fuster-cluck due to varying rim widths and makers' dreams.


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## Mr Evil

_When_ they are measured makes quite a difference. I got some Michelin Pro Optimums recently, nominally 700x25c. When first mounted on Velocity Aeroheads, they were spot on 25.0mm, but now I've been using them for a while they measure 26.5mm front, and a whopping 27.0mm rear.


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## ToffieBoi

Mr Evil said:


> _When_ they are measured makes quite a difference. I got some Michelin Pro Optimums recently, nominally 700x25c. When first mounted on Velocity Aeroheads, they were spot on 25.0mm, but now I've been using them for a while they measure 26.5mm front, and a whopping 27.0mm rear.


Thats weird...


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## changingleaf

Many tires will stretch a little. I have found that the Hutchinson Atom Tubeless 23mm tire measures between 21 and 22. The Fusion Tubeless 23 does measure 23. The Intensive tubeless 25 measures 24 on an Alpha 340 rim with a 17mm inner width. Continental Top Contact 28mm measures 26 on the Alpha 340. The GP3000 23mm on a Mavic ksyrium is close to 23. Michelin Pro 3 23mm tire measures 25 on a Velocity A23 rim. The inner width the rim will make a big difference on tire width. Any tire that measures 23mm on a Ksyrium is going to be closer to 25 on an A23 or Zipp 303 Clincher.


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## SteveV0983

All I can offer is regarding Vredestein Fortezza TriComps -
OpenPro rims, a 23 measures 23
HED Belgium C2 rims, a 23 measures 25 and a 25 measures 26.5. Still trying to decide if I like the 23 or the 25 better on the HEDs.
I do not own a caliper, but this is using a metal ruler looking directly down at the tire. I think it's pretty accurate.


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## redondoaveb

Neuvation R28 Aero with 23mm Vittoria Open Corsa CX = 23.8

23mm X 50mm carbon clinchers with 23mm Schwalbe Ultremo ZX's = 23.3


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## Typetwelve

Conti 4000s listed 23mm, measured 24.6mm. Mounted on a 23mm Wide ROL Race SL (measured 23.10mm).

*EDIT*
Specialized Turbo Elite listed 23mm, measured 22.1mm. Mounted to a set of Fulcrum Racing 6 wheels (Measured 21.1mm).


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## SSRider

Mich Pro Race 4 Service Course 25mm measure to 27mm on a 23mm rim


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## eickmewg

Vittoria Open Corsa EVO CX 23 mm tires measured at 25 mm on A23 rims. My new Vittoria Open Corsa EVO CX 25 mm tires are measuring about 27.5 mm on the same rims. Veloflex Corsa 23 mm tires measured about 23.5 mm on the A23 rims and are measuring just a tad under 23 mm on Open Pro rims.


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## looigi

23mm Mich Pro 3 and 4 on HED C2 measure 25.0 (when new and at end of life. No stretching evident.)


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

Continental GP 4 Seasons 622x25 26.5mm wide on 15mm (internal) wide rims
Continental GP 4000s 622x25 26.8mm wide on 15mm (internal) wide rims


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## Eric_H

Mike T. said:


> I have some Conti 4-Season 28's also and I bought them because I wanted true 28's for dirt road riding. They measure just 26mm on my OP rims. I thought they were mis-labeled as other people have said theirs were wider. I just assumed it was because of my OP rim width.
> 
> My 25mm Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX are actually wider than the 4-season - at 26.2mm. Go figure.
> 
> Tire width is a bit of a fuster-cluck due to varying rim widths and makers' dreams.


I have Conti GP 4-Season in 700x25 that measure ~24mm on a 19-20mm rim (external). Conti GP4000S in 700x23 are almost identical at 23.9mm, but the same GP4000S in 700x25 are 26.5mm.

Conclusion, the GP 4-Season is undersized.


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## MarkThailand

I have a pair of digital calipers:

On 2011 and 2012 HED. C2 clinchers that have an internal bead width of 17.5 mm - all three built by Prowheelbuilder.com:

Continental Limited Edition TT 23c - 24.5 mm at 110 psi rear and 105 psi front

Vittoria Open Pave EVO CG 24 c - 25.5 mm at 105 psi rear and 100 psi front

Continental 4000s 25c - 27.5 mm at 100 psi rear and 95 psi front

I have two pairs of Vittoria Open Corsa EVO CX 23c and 25c that will try next.

My Lynsky Helix OS has a 28 mm clearance at the rear chain stay so the 24c measuring at 25.5 mm may be the max width I can go. I am not sure if I could fit the new Vittoria Open Pave EVO CG 25c tires.

My Lynskey R330 has a 32 mm clearance at the rear chain stay so the Vittoria Open Pave EVO CG 27c tires could work.

My custom Parlee Z1 has a 32 mm clearance at the rear chain stay so I could go up to 28c tubular tires if I wanted. Currently, I am running Veloflex Carbon Black Tubular 23c, measuring 23 mm at 100 psi, up front and Veloflex Arrenberg Tubular 25c, measuring at 25 mm at 100 psi, at the rear.

Mark


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## Barteos

Continental Grand Prix MTB 26x1.20 (28mm) on Stans Flow rims - 31.00-32.00mm! 
Schwalbe Ultremo 700x28mm - 28mm on Mavic A119 rims


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## hazilim

Very confusing! I measure my tires as follows:
Mavic CXP 22 with Continental Ultra Sport 700 X 25 @ 100 PSI: 24mm wide
Blackset Race with Continental 4000s 700 X 23 @ 100 PSI: 25mm wide
What's going on? Does the second number relate to width (as most state), or to height (stated in one or two old posts). My wider-sounding 25 tires measure narrower than the 23's.
When we compare tire sizes, exactly what are we really comparing?
Bob


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## dcgriz

Anybody running the 25 or 28mm Schwalbe Ultremo ZX's on 23mm rims? What is the effective width?


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## wim

deleted, computer problem.


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## wim

deleted, computer problem.


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## wim

deleted, computer problem.


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## wim

> _Why call a tire a 28 that measures only 26 mm wide?_


So their so-called 28 can be listed with a lower weight than the competition's 28.


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## dracula

tarwheel2 said:


> Let's start a thread on actual tire widths, since manufacturers appear loath to make tires that actually conform to their specs. I bought a caliper measuring tool this weekend and have been measuring all of my tires, with some real surprises. Listed by brand, size and type of wheel:
> 
> - Vittoria Rubinos, 700x25, measure exactly 25 mm wide on Mavic Open Pro rims
> - Vittoria Randonneur Hypers, 700x32, measure 34 mm wide on Velocity Dyad rims
> 
> - Continental GP 4 Seasons, 700x28, measure 26.5 mm wide on DT Swiss 465 rims
> 
> - Torelli open clinchers, 700x23, measure 24 mm wide on Mavic Open Pros
> 
> I was surprised by the Vittorias because the Rubinos always looked narrow to me for 25s, but they were spot on. The Hypers were actually fatter than billed.
> 
> The Conti GP 4 Seasons irk me. Why call a tire a 28 that measures only 26 mm wide? A bit of a scam, it seems to me. They are great tires but if I buy a 28, I want it to measure that wide.
> 
> I've got Michelin Pro2 Race 25s on another bike that I will measure later (at the shop), but I know that they run wide.


The only useful measurement here would be the bead-to-bead distance. 

On top of my head (not the most accurate technique just a simple ruler and no vernier caliper):

1. Michelin Krylion 700x23c: 64 mm
2. Michelin Krylion 700x25c: 72 mm
3. Vittoria Open Pave Evo 700x24c: 64 mm
4. Michelin Pro3 Service Course 700x25c: 72 mm
5. Continental GrandPrix 700x24c: 64 mm
6. Michelin Pro Optimum 700x25c: 72 mm
7. Michelin Pro4 Endurance 700x23c: ONLY 59 mm
8. Vittoria Diamante Pro-Radiale Tire 700x24c: 64 mm
9. Michelin Speedium 2 700x23c: 64 mm
10. Vittoria Rubino Pro3 700x23c: 60 mm
11. Panaracer Type-A 700x23c: 56mm (60mm?) according to an ebay seller but not sure if measured flat from outside bead-to-bead. 

I WOULD REALY like to know the bead-to-bead measurement of the Pro4 Endurance 700x25. PLEASE!

Update 24 June 2013: The Michelin Pro4 Endurance 700x25c measures 70mm according to an ebay seller. I received a similar information from Michelin customer service last year but doubted it at that time. It now seems they have indeed reduced the size of the 23mm version but have kept the 25mm sizing the same.

I think 1mm tyre width translates to 4-5mm arc width. The difference between 23mm and 25mm are not a mere 2mm but a whopping 8-10mm.


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## .je

If it matters....

... Mavic Aksion 23mm tires on Aksium rims are 23.5mm measured, not with a vernier, but with a _micrometer_. A _micrometer_.


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## tarwheel2

Here are a couple more tires that I mounted and measured on my bikes:
- Rivendell Jack Brown (green version), 700x33 mm, measured 34 mm on Mavic Open Pros.
- Michelin Pro2 Race, 700x25, measured 27 mm on Mavic Open Pros.


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## Srode

700 x 25 Gatorskins on Bontrager Race (17.5 internal width, 23 outer) 26mm

700 x 25 Gatorskins on Zipp 101 - 26mm


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## bcasinger

I am running several different road tubeless tires, all on the same wheelset - Shimano Dura-Ace. I have spent a lot of money on different tires trying to move to true 25c as I weigh 210 lbs. Unless I am missing something, I have been disappointed by the results:

Hutchinson Fusion 2 700x23 - actual 24mm
Hutchinson Fusion 3 700x23 - actual 24mm
Hutchinson Intensive 700x25 - actual 23mm!
Specialized Roubaix 700x23/25 - actual 24mm
Hutchinson Secteur 700x28 - actual 27.5mm

I should have stuck with the Fusions. The Secteur is a nice tire though.


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## FuelForThought

Michelin Pro4 700x25- Measured at 26mm wide x 26mm high on Fulcrum racing zero


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## Ken Matheson

I'm glad that I found this thread. I'm finding that actual tyre width is a bigger problem than I thought.

Dracula is right; it's the bead-to-bead (b2b) width of a flat unmounted tyre that we should focus on. The fitted width will vary with rim width - which may be part of the problem for manufacturers.

I have a few additions to Dracula's list: -
- Clement Strada LGG x 28 - 68mm b2b
- Continental GP4000S x 25 - 70mm b2b
- Michelin Pro4 Service Course x 23 - 60mm b2b
- Michelin Pro4 Service Course x 25 - 70mm b2b
- Michelin Pro3 Service Course x 23 - 60mm b2b

All of the above tyres are wider than their designation even when fitted to 15mm internal width rims.

I just bought the Conti GP4000S x 25's and fitted them to Pacenti 23SL rims. They measure 27.5mm and will not fit in my Cervelo R3 frame. The Clement Strada LGG x 25's do fit, though they are tight at 26mm. Instead I've used Michelin Pro4 x 23's and they measure 24.5mm. So I might go for Conti Grand Prix x 24's which should be close to 25mm on the Pacenti rim.


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## eickmewg

My recollection of the Vittoria Corsa Open CX EVO 25 mm bead-to-bead measurement was around 74 mm. The Vittoria Corsa Open CX EVO 23 mm had a measurement of 64 mm. If the tires were perfectly circular in cross-section, which of course they aren't, this would account for about a 3 mm difference, which is close to what I measure for the two tires on A23 rims. The 25's measure about 28 mm in mounted width and the 23's about 25 mm.


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## ToffieBoi

Continental GrandPrix 24C - Shimano Ultegra 6700 -> *25mm*
Specialized All Condition Elite 23C - Campagnolo Khamsin -> *25mm*


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## Randy99CL

tarwheel2 said:


> Let's start a thread on actual tire widths, since manufacturers appear loath to make tires that actually conform to their specs. I bought a caliper measuring tool this weekend and have been measuring all of my tires, with some real surprises.


You could make a spreadsheet to keep track of the data you're getting here.

And it would be much simpler if people just stated the internal width of the rim; that's what really matters. There are a million rims and a bazillion possible combinations and only listing the internal rim width simplifies things tremendously.

Hopefully, everyone will use calipers also.

My Vittoria Zaffiro Pro 25s measure 25.1mm wide on rims with 19.1mm IRW.


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## FuelForThought

Continuing on the bead-to-bead measurement, my Veloflex Corsa 23 measure at 62mm.
I am waiting for the 25 version of this tire and will post measurements next week.


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## DrSmile

I just laced up a H Plus Son 23mm rim on my old wheel that pulled the spokes through the rim... The results:

Conti 4K on 19mm rim : 24.07mm
Conti 4K on 23mm rim : 24.91mm

Putting the 19mm mounted tire next to the 23mm mounted one, I'm hard pressed to see a difference in contact patch unless you're leaning the bike more than 50 degrees... my unscientific roll test and butt-meter could not discern any appreciable difference either. I'm beginning to think this 23mm wheel fad is just... a fad.


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## FuelForThought

Veloflex Corsa 25- 65.5mm b2b

**EDIT** 23.4mm wide on Fulcrum Racing Zero rims

Weighed at 210g


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## velodog

23mm Vredestein Fortezza Tricomps mounted on Aerohead rims measure a strong 23.


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## SprinterX

Pacenti SL23 rims - 18mm internal, 24mm external. 
Continental GP4000s (half life) 700x25mm, inflated to 110 
maximum outside width is 27.5mm

note: very close fit in chain stays on my 2011 Tarmac SL3


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## Soaring Vulture

Continental Ultrarace 23mm, 95 PSI on DT Swiss R1850 wheels: 22.7mm


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## mikerp

More SL23 data.
Mich Pro 4 SC
23C yields 25+ width
25C yields 27+ width - this one can be an issue with the chain stays (NDS in particular with some frames)


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## SprinterX

Anyone have a width measurement for the Veloflex Open Corsa 23 & 25 on the Pacenti SL23 rims? Would really appreciate it.


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## askmass

SprinterX said:


> Anyone have a width measurement for the Veloflex Open Corsa 23 & 25 on the Pacenti SL23 rims? Would really appreciate it.


Bumping this older thread because this is my exact question, today-

What is the width measurement for Veloflex Open Corsa 23 & 25 on Pacenti SL23 rims?

I'm currently running Michelin Pro 4 Comp 23's on the Pacenti rims and they measure exactly 24, which is the outside measurement for the rim itself.

Curious how the Veloflex Open Corsa's measure out.


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## Bikephelps

Veloflex 25mm Masters (same as Corsa) on Velocity A-23 rims at 90 lbs 25.3 mm. Continental 25mm Grand Prix 4000s on Mavic Open Pro rims at 90 lbs 26.3. Masters are narrow but the best riding tires I've tried.


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## Maglore

Schwalbe One Tubeless x23 on H Plus Son Archetype - 24.3mm

Michelin Pro 4 Endurance x25 on Fulcrum Racing 7 - 26.6mm


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## KingOfTheHill

Vittoria Open CX 23 on Ultegra 6800 wheels = 24.4
Vittoria Open Pave 27 on Ultegra 6800 wheels = 26.85
Vittoria Open SL 24 on Fulcrum 7's = 24.3

Vredestein Fortezza Tricomp 25 on Fulcrum 7's = 26.9
Michelin Pro 4 SC on Fulcrum 7's = 27.1

Continetnal Ultra Sport II 23 on Fulcrum 7's = 23

Veloflex Corsa 25 on Ultegra 6800 wheels = 24.4


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## AM999

Here is some data from a few years ago:

http://www.biketechreview.com/tires_old/images/AFM_tire_testing_rev9.pdf


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## GammaDriver

I'm surprised this thread isn't an ongoing thing - it does seem that marked/advertised tire widths aren't always correct.

I'd like stats on larger 25's or smaller 28's, and it's like sifting through a haystack for a needle of up-to-date information.


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## steelbikerider

Continental 4000s II 25 mm measures 26.5 on a Mavic CXP 33
Same tire measures 28 mm on a HED Belgium 23mm rim. 
Michelin PRO4 Endurance 25 mm measures 28.5 on a HED Belgium rim and the same on a H Plus Son Archetype


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## changingleaf

I just mounted some Schwalbe Pro one tubeless easy 700 x 25 tires on a set of Boyd Altamont rims. The width of these is actually 27.3mm. 

The height from the top of the rim to the top of the tire is 24mm. 

The rim is quite wide so this makes sense. Most rims also have a side wall that goes far above the bead of the tire so the height of the tire expanding outside the rim does not match the width.


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## GammaDriver

Apparently this all comes down to how wide the rims are that the tires get seated on. The general trend these days is to have wider wheels (some of them very wide for road bike wheels since they no longer have to adhere to brakes on either side of the rim what with disc brakes).


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## ceugene

GammaDriver said:


> Apparently this all comes down to how wide the rims are that the tires get seated on. The general trend these days is to have wider wheels (some of them very wide for road bike wheels since they no longer have to adhere to brakes on either side of the rim what with disc brakes).


Yep. Those same 25mm Schwalbe Pro Ones mentioned one post above? On my SES 5.6 Disc they measure on average 28.8mm.


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## Bflath

25mm Michelin Pro 4 Endurance, 28.6mm on HED Belgiums.


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## No Time Toulouse

Tufo S33 Pro 24: 25mm

Challenge tubular 22: 22mm


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