# Who is NEXT... ????



## pr0230 (Jun 4, 2004)

SO. Who are the top ten cyclists that have NOT confessed that you think will confess like all the others?

1: Mr Voight ( I really hope not)
2: Thor

And I gotta tell ya, Im sick of it... Its not helping cycling, the teams, the fans... Ive canceled all my subscriptions. And I really don't care to watch or fallow at this point. I may change when the classics start, but for now , I watching GOLF....


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## g29er (Mar 28, 2009)

pr0230 said:


> SO. Who are the top ten cyclists that have NOT confessed that you think will confess like all the others?
> 
> 1: Mr Voight ( I really hope not)
> 2: Thor
> ...



Its not helping to walk away. I'm still going to watch because I love the sport.


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## oily666 (Apr 7, 2007)

pr0230 said:


> SO. Who are the top ten cyclists that have NOT confessed that you think will confess like all the others?
> 
> 1: Mr Voight ( I really hope not)
> 2: Thor
> ...


If Yens confesses, I selling my bikes and taking up go karts. Besides, Senna is a more of and inspiration than Armstrong could have ever been. I don't care if I am 61, karts are more fun and it's time to use some different neck muscles. Damn hot in the summer though.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

*witch hunt*


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## oily666 (Apr 7, 2007)

Local Hero said:


> *witch hunt*


Scorched earth is more like it.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

The only way forward is for all dopers past and present to own up before a Truth and Reconciliation Panel. 
Then draw a line in the sand - anyone caught after/or who did no confess to have a lifetime ban and the team for which they ride to be banned and all monies earned, including sponsorship, to be returned. No Ifs - No Buts.
Either this, or the sport is dead in the water.

What we have now is a joke: Virtually (90%?) every winner of a Pro Race for the last decades has been a lying cheat.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Local Hero said:


> *witch hunt*


If it's a witch hunt, then there's a lot of witches that need hunting. We've gotten the big one, now it's just the small potatoes witches.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Who I do think are dopers ? many of them

- Contador
- Samuel Sanchez
- Jens Voigt
- Fabian Cancellara
- Anyone who had answered "let's look at the future and not remove the past" when asked about the current state of things
- Anyone who had answered "fortunately that era ended in 2006" but were racing pro before that date
- Anyone who have raced on the dopers' teams ( Postal/Discovery/Liberty Seguros/Astana/Lay-o-pahrd/Radioshack, CSC/Saxo Bank, Banesto/Caise D'Epargne/Movistar, Rabobank, others ? )


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Salsa_Lover said:


> Who I do think are dopers ? many of them
> 
> - Contador
> - Samuel Sanchez
> ...


You forgot (at minimum) ONCE, T-Mobile and Schleck.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Well ONCE and T-Mobile are now defunct teams.

And the schleckettes are in the CSC/lay-0-pahrd/Shack conglomerate


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Brad McGee was at CSC. Clean. CSC was a two speed setup it seems. Jensie might very well have been in the bread & water only division. 
Dont seem to be any skeletons in Thor's closet.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Salsa_Lover said:


> Well ONCE and T-Mobile are now defunct teams.
> 
> And the schleckettes are in the CSC/lay-0-pahrd/Shack conglomerate


True, but then Cancellara and Voight would be in the same camp.

And I'd be fully suspicious of anyone who came through ONCE or T-Mobile.

Either way, I see your thought process.


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

albert owen said:


> The only way forward is for all dopers past and present to own up before a Truth and Reconciliation Panel.
> Then draw a line in the sand - anyone caught after/or who did no confess to have a lifetime ban and the team for which they ride to be banned and all monies earned, including sponsorship, to be returned. No Ifs - No Buts.
> Either this, or the sport is dead in the water.
> 
> What we have now is a joke: Virtually (90%?) every winner of a Pro Race for the last decades has been a lying cheat.


That's a pretty large net you're casting. 
Let me throw some names at you. 
Cadel Evans
Philippe Gilbert
Ryder Hesjedal


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

MG537 said:


> That's a pretty large net you're casting.
> Let me throw some names at you.
> Cadel Evans
> Philippe Gilbert
> Ryder Hesjedal


I hope they aren't, I would be just crushed if I heard Ryder dopes.


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## superjesus (Jul 26, 2010)

Salsa_Lover said:


> Who I do think are dopers ? many of them
> 
> - Contador
> - Samuel Sanchez
> ...


Pretty much this. :thumbsup:


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

You guys are forgetting an awful big name:

Boonen


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## RTSO2112 (Oct 18, 2012)

Dwayne Barry said:


> You guys are forgetting an awful big name:
> 
> Boonen


That wood be a banen to the sport.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

We know Boonen's been snortin' coke (and enjoying barely legal vrouwen). Next!


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

Voeckler, Rodriguez, Menchov and a bunch of his buddies at Katusha.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

I'm surprised it took this long for Rodriguez name to surface.


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## r1lee (Jul 22, 2012)

would be very dissapointed if Cancellara comes up on that list.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

*Moving Forward*

A witch hunt perhaps, but it needs doing. I would prefer to see it done within the bounds of a Truth and Reconcilliation process, but it needs doing in any event.

I would like to see the sport move forward (<- does not mean that I'm a doper!  ) as well - here are ten points I've garnished from various sources (I make no claim to original thinking here!) which I think might help the sport actually move forward:

1)	UCI President and Board to step down (including honorariums). New President and Board with five year staggered term limits.

2)	Riders Union to have a permanent seat on the UCI Board – consider a veto-right with limitations so the Riders Union cannot hold the UCI captive if the board is otherwise agreed.

3)	Truth and Reconciliation Process (T&RP) to take place, independent of the UCI. Those who confess during this period of investigation and reconciliation and cooperate with the T&RP to receive six month bans and be allowed to continue in cycling (life-time bans would kill the T&RP and assure the Omerta as dopers would have nothing to gain from confessing – might as well take their chances at the CAS).

4)	After T&RP – Four Year ban for confessed dopers (allow return to sport in rider or team capacity – exclusion from UCI, National Cycling and Olympic Board Memberships) – life-time bans for convicted dopers.

5)	Revisit and overhaul or disband UCI Points System and criteria for achieving “Pro-Tour” status. Consider awarding “participation points” for domestiques and others so that they can also bring points to a team and are rewarded – points-wise – for their work for the team. Eliminate the no-points rule after a rider returns from a ban.

6)	All drug testing responsibilities should be transferred from the UCI to WADA or a WADA administered Cycling Anti-Doping Authority independent of the UCI and the national ADAs and Cycling Federations. This “Authority” would also be in-charge of administering the whereabouts system (which also needs to be re-assessed and streamlined).

7)	Dis-allow contributions by active riders, teams, team owners etc. to the UCI.

8)	All team doctors to be certified by the “Authority”. Certification to be renewed every two years. Cycling-wide ban on using or visiting/consulting with doctors who are not on the “Authority’s” list of certified practitioners.

9)	Disallow the exemption to use corticoids et al. and ride. Riders must sit out their injury and be allowed to heal properly. Once they return to competition, they must be drug-free.

10)	Re-visit profit sharing concept with the UCI and race organizers.


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## thighmaster (Feb 2, 2006)

It must be an American thing to confess. No one currently riding will confess and the lists above contain several post dopers already. You think more than 25% (non scintific and hopefull at best) are clean you're dreaming. Just google those names above and doping and it's past suspicion.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Not Voeckler. He's been in a near fistfight with Vino.

About an hour ago Paul Kimmage quoted Maximus (in the movie) "On my signal, unleash hell!", saying he hoped to give the signal very soon. 
Next: Pat and Father Hein.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

kbwh said:


> Not Voeckler. He's been in a near fistfight with Vino...


Tommy always comes out fighting after a rest day.:thumbsup:


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## champamoore (Jul 30, 2012)

One point which you left out (as per Michael Shermer), that I feel is crucial is this: if one person on a team is caught doping, the entire team is dsiqualified from whatever event they are/were participating in. This puts the pressure on everyone to make sure that there is pressure from within the team against *any* doping at all.


LostViking said:


> A witch hunt perhaps, but it needs doing. I would prefer to see it done within the bounds of a Truth and Reconcilliation process, but it needs doing in any event.
> 
> I would like to see the sport move forward (<- does not mean that I'm a doper!  ) as well - here are ten points I've garnished from various sources (I make no claim to original thinking here!) which I think might help the sport actually move forward:
> 
> ...


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

From Cyclingnews.com

*External commission to examine UCI's role in Armstrong affair; Kimmage case suspended*

"The management committee of the UCI has decided not to award Lance Armstrong's stripped Tour de France titles to any rider following a special meeting in Geneva, Switzerland on Friday. The committee has also agreed to establish an external commission to examine the allegations made about the UCI's handling of the Armstrong case, and the UCI will suspend its legal action against Paul Kimmage, pending the commission's findings.

The special meeting was called after the UCI accepted USADA's reasoned decision on the Lance Armstrong doping case, banning the American for life and stripping him of all results from August 1, 1998. In a statement released on Friday afternoon, the UCI management committee acknowledged that "decisive action was needed in response to the report".

A good start.


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## brady1 (Aug 18, 2011)

Salsa_Lover said:


> Who I do think are dopers ? many of them
> 
> - Contador
> - Samuel Sanchez
> ...


Pretty much... I would hate to think Jens is though but his background (country of origin and past teams) would seem to indicate that he's at least been around it a lot.

I would add the Schlecks to the list. Yeah, probably both. It seems that whatever Frank does, Andy has to tag along.

Vino definitely. That Olympic road race was a joke.

Also anyone that has come out lately in support of Lance. Then again, it looks like you captured that with Contador and Sanchez on the list.

I also expect to hear Sean Yates dropped from Sky at some point.

Probably Chris Horner too. How his name escaped all this mess I'll never know.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

If Voigt is going to confess, it won't be this year. He just signed a contract. You aren't going to get a lot of confessions from active riders. Not unless there is an amnesty program, which I am totally in favor of.


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## brady1 (Aug 18, 2011)

Salsa_Lover said:


> Who I do think are dopers ? many of them
> 
> - Contador
> - Samuel Sanchez
> ...


Pretty much... I would hate to think Jens is though but his background (country of origin and past teams) would seem to indicate that he's at least been around it a lot.

I would add the Schlecks to the list. Yeah, probably both. It seems that whatever Frank does, Andy has to tag along.

Vino definitely. That Olympic road race was a joke.

Also anyone that has come out lately in support of Lance. Then again, it looks like you captured that with Contador and Sanchez on the list.

I also expect to hear Sean Yates dropped from Sky at some point.

Probably Chris Horner too. How his name escaped all this mess I'll never know.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

brady1 said:


> Vino definitely. That Olympic road race was a joke.


How so?


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## hipo_p51 (Jul 6, 2012)

what about wiggo and froomy?

the way they road last year, they have to be on the juice.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

mohair_chair said:


> If Voigt is going to confess, it won't be this year. He just signed a contract. You aren't going to get a lot of confessions from active riders. Not unless there is an amnesty program, which I am totally in favor of.


Or he and others could confess now - get a 3 month ban and be back in business for the European Classics. Can't see the Dope Shack terminating his contract over this.

Not sure about Amnesty - I think they should at the very least get a short suspension on thier records and victories nullified during thier doping days.

Sign me up as a Jens fan-boy, so I would be let down by such an admission. That said, I suspect that he may have "used" at some point during his career - better to come clean with the others now then wait I think.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

LostViking said:


> 4)	After T&RP – Four Year ban for confessed dopers (allow return to sport in rider or team capacity – exclusion from UCI, National Cycling and Olympic Board Memberships) – life-time bans for convicted dopers.


Considering that not many pros have the financial means to fight their cases, this is basically saying confess and get four years, or be banned for life. That's a tough choice to make if you aren't guilty. That weights the hearing process against the cyclist so much, you might as well get rid of hearings completely. The risk is too great to have one.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

mohair_chair said:


> Considering that not many pros have the financial means to fight their cases, this is basically saying confess and get four years, or be banned for life. That's a tough choice to make if you aren't guilty. That weights the hearing process against the cyclist so much, you might as well get rid of hearings completely. The risk is too great to have one.


I think I understand what you are saying here - but they seem to find the money to go to the CAS now - why would this be otherwise?


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*oddly*



Dwayne Barry said:


> You guys are forgetting an awful big name:
> 
> Boonen


Boonen has one of the lowest 'base' hematocrit levels in the peloton. Where most riders are magically right at 50 or close Tommeke is around 42


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## loubnc (May 8, 2008)

kbwh said:


> We know Boonen's been snortin' coke (and enjoying barely legal vrouwen). Next!


Just because he's a dope, that doesn't make him a doper.


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

I think a flood gate of retired riders is waiting for some sort of amnesty to open up, but anyone still riding is about as likely to be voluntarily issuing a confessional press release as Marco Pantani is at this point


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## YamaDan (Aug 28, 2012)

Froome... Complete unknown to contender overnight? And did anyone watch hin in the Giro..imploded.


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## tnvol123 (Sep 11, 2012)

The biggest Who's Next question to me is who can win without being accused of doping. LeMond is about the only rider ever mentioned that _might_ be clean in everyone's eyes.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

tnvol123 said:


> The biggest Who's Next question to me is who can win without being accused of doping. LeMond is about the only rider ever mentioned that _might_ be clean in everyone's eyes.


With all of his anti-doping statements over the years, I think someone would have outed him if they knew. Armstrong reportedly offered $300,000 to anyone who would step forward (I stress "reportedly") and accuse him of using EPO. If that is true, no one claimed the prize. 

Interesting with all of the animosity Hinault and he had (mostly on Greg's part) after the 1986 Tour, LeMond has never accused the Badger of doping. Either Bernard hid it from him, or he rode clean after Greg joined La Vie Claire. Greg never accused Fignon, but they were on different teams. He probably wouldn't have known.

You're talking about 3 guys with awesome genetics, too. LeMond's father started riding crits in his 40s and did very well against guys half his age. Maybe LeMond sees a distinction between speed and EPO? Who really knows. Seeing as how people in general hate hypocrisy, I think someone would have fingered LeMond by now.


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## tnvol123 (Sep 11, 2012)

I hear you. It just seems like the sport is one huge farce. Riders can't be good _and_ clean. 



mpre53 said:


> With all of his anti-doping statements over the years, I think someone would have outed him if they knew. Armstrong reportedly offered $300,000 to anyone who would step forward (I stress "reportedly") and accuse him of using EPO. If that is true, no one claimed the prize.
> 
> Interesting with all of the animosity Hinault and he had (mostly on Greg's part) after the 1986 Tour, LeMond has never accused the Badger of doping. Either Bernard hid it from him, or he rode clean after Greg joined La Vie Claire. Greg never accused Fignon, but they were on different teams. He probably wouldn't have known.
> 
> You're talking about 3 guys with awesome genetics, too. LeMond's father started riding crits in his 40s and did very well against guys half his age. Maybe LeMond sees a distinction between speed and EPO? Who really knows. Seeing as how people in general hate hypocrisy, I think someone would have fingered LeMond by now.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

Let's play Wheel of Confession! If the wheel stops on your name, you must spill the beans on your doping past! And remember, if you are selected but refuse to play the audience gets to take their turn kicking you in the balls. Or should I say "ball" - isn't that right, Lance? *fake laugh as camera pans over to Lance hunched over in pain* Let's play!

*spins wheel*

*wheel starts to slow down over Voigt's name, audience screams with excitement*

... *wheel passes Voigt and lands on Bobby Ulich*

*sigh of disappointment is heard followed by unenthusiastic clapping*

Ohhhhh, so close! Maybe next time Jens! Bobby get your scraggly ass up here, let's hear it!


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## YamaDan (Aug 28, 2012)

Bob Roll!!


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## hipo_p51 (Jul 6, 2012)

YamaDan said:


> Bob Roll!!


I guess Paul and Phil too.


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## little_shoe (Apr 18, 2008)

LostViking said:


> A witch hunt perhaps, but it needs doing. I would prefer to see it done within the bounds of a Truth and Reconcilliation process, but it needs doing in any event.
> 
> I would like to see the sport move forward (<- does not mean that I'm a doper!  ) as well - here are ten points I've garnished from various sources (I make no claim to original thinking here!) which I think might help the sport actually move forward:
> 
> ...


@#6. WADA/USADA needs to have a system which is completely above reproach. The current system as it exist does not come anywhere near this. The system is designed against the athlete. It needs to allow full discovery and USADA/National level agencies which serve as the procutors but must not have influence on the proceedures and must be completely isolated from the judgement/arbitration process. See http://law.pepperdine.edu/dispute-resolution-law-journal/issues/volume-ten/Straubel Article.pdf for suggestions.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

I have no idea about Froome but...



YamaDan said:


> Froome... Complete unknown to contender overnight? And did anyone watch hin in the Giro..imploded.


Phenoms, peaks, valleys, guys riding tempo to run down competitors...this is what I expect in a clean peloton.


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## slowdave (Nov 29, 2005)

Froome has not come from unknown.
Tour three or 4 years ago riding for Barloworld, he went overs the tours "cima Coppi" climb in the lead but crashed on the decent im sure youtube will have a clip. He had an african virius last year Balhazia sp? but has been on the improve the last few years.

Edit: John Lee Augustyn was the crasher, but Froome rode that tour with Barloworld. along with G.Thomas and M.Solar.


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## Chris Oz (Oct 8, 2005)

Completely agree with what you are proposing.

I don't see it as a witch hunt when we know they are witches(dopers) and doping is a real problem. Often people use the term witch hunt when they don't want to believe the fact. It is just the denial phase of the process.



LostViking said:


> A witch hunt perhaps, but it needs doing. I would prefer to see it done within the bounds of a Truth and Reconcilliation process, but it needs doing in any event.
> 
> I would like to see the sport move forward (<- does not mean that I'm a doper!  ) as well - here are ten points I've garnished from various sources (I make no claim to original thinking here!) which I think might help the sport actually move forward:
> 
> ...


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## Lazy Spinner (Aug 30, 2009)

I'll add team bans to the list also. Since doping seems to be systematic, one rider positive gets the team tossed from the event immediately. If the positive is reported after the completion of the event, then the team is barred from participating in the following year's edition. (Imagine the furor if Quickstep was barred from De Ronde or Lampre from the Giro.)

Two rider positives in a season nets the team a six month racing ban.

Three positives? Revocation of team license and one year individual bans on everyone from riders to wrenches to soigneurs and "consultants".

This puts the onus on the teams and sponsors. One bad egg? It happens but, there is a price to be paid. Two or more? The whole team is corrupt and needs to be dealt with top to bottom.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Unless there's amnesty, I don't see too many active racers without a US Postal connection confessing. 

I do think more than a few folks will be disillusioned if Voight and/or Voekler confess. If this offends you, perhaps you shouldn't idolize people so much and perhaps you should distance yourself from things that deeply offend you. 

I'd like to think the next confession is from someone who gets caught. Hopefully all of this bad press will discourage further doping.


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## fschris (Jul 21, 2010)

If some of you hated lance for being a doper and lying about it. you should just hate all of pro cycling. some people as I stated.... enjoyed watching lance fall from grace should look deep into their own souls. what makes you any better? you don't become #1 in the world being a nice guy.

look at the Rockefellers, Rothschilds, Kennedys, Goldman Sachs... You get big and powerful by not playing by the rule book.

Do you all shop at Walmart. They are dopers as well. Everyone needs some form of EPO to make it big.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

loubnc said:


> Just because he's a dope, that doesn't make him a doper.


I agree. My post was mostly a reaction to the name dropping exercise this thread partly is.


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## loubnc (May 8, 2008)

kbwh said:


> I agree. My post was mostly a reaction to the name dropping exercise this thread partly is.


Sad but true. (the thread that is)


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Cadel and Jens, (2) of my all time favorites..............if they turn up dirty, I may completely tune out the Pro races. 

Big George was always a favorite as well. Still like him and it hurt to hear he was a doper. 

I can teach my child to not look at an LED light, or to not touch a hot burner on the stove. And then I read where Cadel had a consultation with Ferrari. What in the blankety, blank would make a 'good guy' like Cadel do such a stupid thing? He has everything to loose and he's smart enough to see what happens to riders who get near the good doctor.
If all he was looking for was a 'consultation' I would think he could find some other qualified trainer. I hope it was nothing more than some training advice.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Indurain.


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## YamaDan (Aug 28, 2012)

spade2you said:


> Unless there's amnesty, I don't see too many active racers without a US Postal connection confessing.
> 
> I do think more than a few folks will be disillusioned if Voight and/or Voekler confess. If this offends you, perhaps you shouldn't idolize people so much and perhaps you should distance yourself from things that deeply offend you.
> 
> I'd like to think the next confession is from someone who gets caught. Hopefully all of this bad press will discourage further doping.


Agree 100%! It's funny to me though, and I'm sorry if I sound like a "fanboy", just how many people have carried the tourch condemming LA. 

I still think there needs to be parody in the consequences handed down. I know you guys will say there were deals etc..but.. when other cyclists have been caught, it has not been to the magnatude of LA, and before anyone says he was the center of it all, there was doping before LA and there will be doping after. 

You want to get rid of it, fine, you get caught, you're gone, period. Zero tolerance. Not six month ban crap. You test positive, you're gone. Done carrer overwith done bubye now. Across the board. Sponsors same thing, you have one test positive, bu fricken bye! That should keep everyone a little more warry. Now it's come out, keep it out. Everyrider should be randomly checked in the off season, and then again during race season. Have the guys who evaded it for so long help clean up the field.

As far as the tour goes, Sorry but it has a huge black eye on it for me. If you're gonna remove LA from history, Pantani, Contador, Ullrich and a few other need to go too.

That's really the only way. 

I guess I need a new race to watch, cuz even the USA Cycling challenge needs a new winner.

Just saying.. I'm going for a ride.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

YamaDan said:


> Bob Roll!!


Pot and shrooms aren't performance enhancing. 
Sorry, couldn't help it


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## GTR2ebike (Jun 30, 2011)

You can Eliminate vino and contador since they have both been banned for doping.


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## Fogdweller (Mar 26, 2004)

YamaDan said:


> Froome... Complete unknown to contender overnight? And did anyone watch hin in the Giro..imploded.


Since he didn't ride the Giro, I assume you mean the Vuelta. Yes, to implode in the Vuelta after podium finish in the Tour is the true sign of a clean rider.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

Fogdweller said:


> Since he didn't ride the Giro, I assume you mean the Vuelta. Yes, to implode in the Vuelta after podium finish in the Tour is the true sign of a clean rider.


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## Big-foot (Dec 14, 2002)

*What about former riders?*

This is the confession that would be *REALLY* interesting!


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## mariomal99 (Mar 4, 2012)

Wiggins........team sky is crumbling down


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