# CAAD 5 vs. Six13 or Synapse



## LyncStar (May 1, 2005)

OK, I've been roadbiking for about a 1.5 years now (I'm 38 and all biking prior ('cept for my Schwin Varsity in middle and high school) was mtb here in the Rockies). I really enjoy roadbiking and my cycle is a CAAD 5 with Campy Protons, the Slice carbon fork (has some AU bits and pieces). I also installed a Easton carbon seat post along with Look Keo carbon pedals. 

My short question is the bike is really stiff and responsive, but it does beat me up a bit. Nothing I can't survive, but something I'd like to minimize. Thus I'm looking for a new frame. Will either the Six13 (I'd be looking at the one with carbon top and down tubes) or Synapse (full carbon) provide a quantum leap in comfort? 

That is what I'd be expecting given the large amount of dollars I'd be expending to purchase one. Also, what about a titanium bike? I know C'dale doesn't make one, but would I really notice the difference from the CAAD 5 I currently ride? 

The net is I don't want to spend gobs of money for little benefit.

Your thoughts are most appreciated!!


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## otiebob (Jun 25, 2002)

You're going to get a huge variety of answers on this - its very speculative. I'm going to give you the cheapest answer. You will find more comfort on your CAAD5 with 5-10 psi less in the tires and maybe some gel tape than you will in buying a Six13 or any other bike/material/etc. Now, if your CAAD5 doesn't actually fit you, well, it will never be as comfortable as one that fits. Beyond that it is all subjective. I'd suggest, unless you're just itching for something new, that you try a little less psi and some gel tape (or even some 700 x 25c tires) before jumping to a new bike that will quite likely only "feel" more comfortable because you spent $3000 on it. The Synapse does have more relaxed/upright geometry than the CAAD5 or the Six13 but again, its only going to be more "comfortable" if your CAAD5 doesn't fit anyways imo.


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## tortise (Feb 3, 2003)

I own both a CAAD5 and a ti Litespeed, I would have to say there is a considerable difference in the ride of the two frames. The ti ride is smooth and comfortable to a point of floating on air feeling. As you've said the CAAD5 is stiff, responsive but not what I call harsh. I prefer the CAAD5 for racing because of it's responsiveness and stiffness for sprinting plus out-of-saddle climbing. 
The best way to describe the ride of the Litespeed is it's similar to riding on a "nice" steel frame. I've tried several carbon frames (not the Six13 or Synapse) and found the feel to be "detached" even though they were stiff carbon racing frames. I'm not sure what I've said is of any help, but if you're into long recreational/training rides then ti is what I would chose. When I'm racing then it's the CAAD5.


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## Blade (Nov 10, 2004)

Do a search on the forum and read up on the Synapse. It's the bike you're looking for, I'm pretty sure about it.
You didn't mention that you race your bike, so I don't see the point of an über-stiff frame. Try a Synapse, it is still plenty stiff, but it feels almost like it has a suspension in the rear. A very, very cool bike.


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## otiebob (Jun 25, 2002)

tortise said:


> I own both a CAAD5 and a ti Litespeed, I would have to say there is a considerable difference in the ride of the two frames. The ti ride is smooth and comfortable to a point of floating on air feeling. As you've said the CAAD5 is stiff, responsive but not what I call harsh. I prefer the CAAD5 for racing because of it's responsiveness and stiffness for sprinting plus out-of-saddle climbing.
> The best way to describe the ride of the Litespeed is it's similar to riding on a "nice" steel frame. I've tried several carbon frames (not the Six13 or Synapse) and found the feel to be "detached" even though they were stiff carbon racing frames. I'm not sure what I've said is of any help, but if you're into long recreational/training rides then ti is what I would chose. When I'm racing then it's the CAAD5.


Not to doubt that there is a ride difference between frames but do you run *exactly* the same setup on both bikes (ie. everything - wheels, bars, stem (plus length, reach, height) , tires, seat, seatpost, etc.)? If so, then are both frames the same geometry (exactly)? If not, it might not necessarily be the frame material creating the distinct difference.

At the shop I work at, we've been coached in selling bikes based on materials for years but the truth is, it really comes down to the total bike setup and the frame angles more than material in most applications. Thus, I always recommend to folks interested in buying a new bike for comfort, that they make sure they're truly fitted/matched to their current bike, regardless of material, and then try lower psi, gel tape, different saddle, etc., before buying a new bike. There's no doubt that a Litespeed Classic will ride differently than a CAAD5 but it is really not *that* different if both bikes are built up exactly the same so again, I try to save folks money and have them try a few things before buying a new bike.

To the OP, if you're looking for "comfort" in contrast to the CAAD5 and end up buying a new bike for whatever reason, I'd consider the Synapse, Roubaix, Pilot, OCR over something like a Six13, Tarmac, Madone, TCR. Happy hunting regardless!


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## tortise (Feb 3, 2003)

otiebob said:


> Not to doubt that there is a ride difference between frames but do you run *exactly* the same setup on both bikes (ie. everything - wheels, bars, stem (plus length, reach, height) , tires, seat, seatpost, etc.)? If so, then are both frames the same geometry (exactly)? If not, it might not necessarily be the frame material creating the distinct difference.
> 
> At the shop I work at, we've been coached in selling bikes based on materials for years but the truth is, it really comes down to the total bike setup and the frame angles more than material in most applications. Thus, I always recommend to folks interested in buying a new bike for comfort, that they make sure they're truly fitted/matched to their current bike, regardless of material, and then try lower psi, gel tape, different saddle, etc., before buying a new bike. There's no doubt that a Litespeed Classic will ride differently than a CAAD5 but it is really not *that* different if both bikes are built up exactly the same so again, I try to save folks money and have them try a few things before buying a new bike.
> 
> To the OP, if you're looking for "comfort" in contrast to the CAAD5 and end up buying a new bike for whatever reason, I'd consider the Synapse, Roubaix, Pilot, OCR over something like a Six13, Tarmac, Madone, TCR. Happy hunting regardless!


I had both bikes set up with the same components (wheels, grouppo, bars, stems and seat post except for the forks. The reason was that I had tried to replicate the same position so I could switch back and forth between the two bikes at any time. Luckily, I have manage to setup the two bikes to within 3mm's (saddle tip to handlebar) with all other measurements being identical. 
I've raced and done numerous centuries on both the CAAD5 and the Litespeed Vortex, my choice for either ride is the CAAD5.
You're right, though, the feeling between the two bikes isn't all *that* different but I've argued this with many of our local riders who own ti frames that the CAAD5 feels faster and more agile than my Litespeed.


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## LyncStar (May 1, 2005)

tortise said:


> I've raced and done numerous centuries on both the CAAD5 and the Litespeed Vortex, my choice for either ride is the CAAD5.
> You're right, though, the feeling between the two bikes isn't all *that* different but I've argued this with many of our local riders who own ti frames that the CAAD5 feels faster and more agile than my Litespeed.


I took an '05 Vortex (Ultegra 10 spd setup - I foget the wheels) for about a 45 minute test ride today. I'd concur that it isn't "that" different from my CAAD5. I did notice that it was smoother on the rough stuff than my CAAD5, but not soooo much smoother that it is worth the price to upgrade. That said, it is one of the stiffer ti frames, or so I was told. 

I definately want to try a Synapse and a Six13, but can't seem to find one built in Denver. 

Regarding racing, I don't road race, but am very competitive with friends and train hard for a few endurance mountain bike events I race in each year.


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## tortise (Feb 3, 2003)

LyncStar said:


> I took an '05 Vortex (Ultegra 10 spd setup - I foget the wheels) for about a 45 minute test ride today. I'd concur that it isn't "that" different from my CAAD5. I did notice that it was smoother on the rough stuff than my CAAD5, but not soooo much smoother that it is worth the price to upgrade. That said, it is one of the stiffer ti frames, or so I was told.
> 
> I definately want to try a Synapse and a Six13, but can't seem to find one built in Denver.
> 
> Regarding racing, I don't road race, but am very competitive with friends and train hard for a few endurance mountain bike events I race in each year.


I agree with you, LyncStar, it isn't worth the significant amount for the upgrade if the OP was to choose a Litespeed ti frame as a replacement. If the Litespeed Vortex is considered one of the stiffer ti frames, I'd hate to ride one of the more flexier ti's. It would be like riding a wet noodle.


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## benjio88 (Sep 20, 2006)

*My Personal Independent Test*

in my search for a comfortable racing bike i would have sat on and ridden at least 10 different road bikes including:

* Cannondales
* Bianchi's
*Colnago's
* Cinelli's
* Cervelos
* Pinarellos
* Felt

After riding them all i decided that Cervello's, Felts, Pinarellos and Cannondales where far to expensive for a bike that felt in most cases much slower and flexy. The Colnago that i rode was a C50 and it was the greatest on for both comfort and, yet also for its rigidity on the fast accelerations and it stability around corners and on descents. This bike was closely followed by the Cinelli Mecano. Only marginally heavier and it still felt extremely stable and rigid, yet as a full carbon bike it was also amazingly comfortable. 

In the end i opted for the Cinelli Mecano as i got an awesome deal from the LBS and the Colnago C50 was a little out of my price range. 

I have had my new bike now just under a month and have already done 1600km which is an awesome testament to both its comfort on thsoe long rides and its overall feel. I would recomend this bike to anyone and everyone.


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## Blade (Nov 10, 2004)

benjio88 said:


> I have had my new bike now just under a month and have already done 1600km ...


You must be a very rich guy, I assume. I don't have time to ride over 30 miles every single day for a month, I envy you.

Anyway, you feel a Cannondale is far to expensive for what you get, may I ask how much you spend on the Cinelli?


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## LyncStar (May 1, 2005)

Blade said:


> You must be a very rich guy, I assume. I don't have time to ride over 30 miles every single day for a month, I envy you.
> 
> Anyway, you feel a Cannondale is far to expensive for what you get, may I ask how much you spend on the Cinelli?


Yeah, that's like a $7K bike. I don't think C'dale makes anything that expensive....


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## Oldteen (Sep 7, 2005)

Back to the OP's topic-

I ride a CAAD5, too,& have upgraded my stock Gipiemme wheels & tires to Ultegra/OP's with Vittoria Rubino Pro's. I've ridden the Synapse, Pilot, and OCR's & still prefer the CAAD5. I do not find the CAAD5 harsh. It is responsive & connected to the road. While the ride of those other bikes is softer/smoother, the handling & responsiveness is just not what I feel from my "old-tech" AL CAAD5. And I am not a racer by any means- just a middle-aged recreational rider.
BTW- I agree that running 25 tires (rather than 20 or 23's) at a bit lower pressure can give a much smoother ride, and at only a minor penalty in handling.


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## LyncStar (May 1, 2005)

Oldteen said:


> Back to the OP's topic-
> 
> I ride a CAAD5, too,& have upgraded my stock Gipiemme wheels & tires to Ultegra/OP's with Vittoria Rubino Pro's. I've ridden the Synapse, Pilot, and OCR's & still prefer the CAAD5. I do not find the CAAD5 harsh. .


In the past couple of weeks I test road a Specialized Roubaix (FACT 6r) and an '06 Cannondale Six13 Team (full Campy record). The Roubaix, while comfortable, also felt dead/numb. I really didn't like it that much, not enough snap. The Six13 (which I test road from Golden up Lookout Mt. and back after having ridden the 22 miles to the shop on my CAAD5), was awesome. The wheelset on the 13 were Campy Euros (mine are Protons) and tire inflation and type were the same. The 13 was very responsive and stiff, and the carbon tubes (i assume) really mellowed out the ride over the rough stuff, exactly what I was looking for.


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