# Syncro



## mackgoo (Mar 2, 2004)

Anyone have success with syncro shifters? I'm thinking about using them on a build. They would be 2nd gen C Record.


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## GKSki (Nov 12, 2014)

I ran Synchro 8's on two bikes for many years. Worked great. Just last year though found a pair of Chorus Ergo 8s on the bay and I love them. Way better than Shimano.


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## hfc (Jan 24, 2003)

Well you probably read my post in your Bianchi thread but I'm 3 for 3 success with Syncro 2, although technically one of them is 8 speed Record, so I don't think that is actually Syncro.

'85 Merckx Pro with 6 speed C Record RD
'89 Bianchi Giro with 7 speed Athena RD
'89 Merckx Century with 8 speed Chorus RD

I'm going to start building up a Basso Gap soon and plan to put 7 speed on it.

I would suggest using a modern 8 speed chain - I usually use KMC Z72 or SRAM. If you go 7 speed pick a ramped freewheel like a Dura Ace or Sachs Aris unless you decide to match up like in that link I posted.


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## GKSki (Nov 12, 2014)

I used them with Chorus 8sp RDs. Always had good luck with the SRAM PC870 8 speed chain. Also able to use a 7-speed SRAM/Sachs freewheel for winter rides.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Should have posted this here instead of the other thread.

I found this excellent description of Campy's attempts at indexed shifting in the late '80's. The Retrogrouch: Campagnolo Derailleurs: Evolutionary Dead Ends

My setup is from '91 to '93 when both the shifters and RD's had been redesigned and the system works wonderfully.

Campy's own nomenclature around the use of the "Syncro" name is extremely confusing as there are several different iterations with the same name. Almost a new version every other year from '87 to '95.

The late model had a larger spool, pulled more cable per shift, and the RD's were redesigned accordingly.

The first model featured an easy switch to friction, presumably for when the indexing was less than good










and then Syncro 2 without adjuster, which is what I have. C 1991. Note the larger body.










then there are these Syncro 2 with the attached cable adjuster. C 1993










Here's the 1991 Record group. This was 8-speed, but since the 7-speed cog spacing was identical it can be used there too which is what mine is.


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## mackgoo (Mar 2, 2004)

Yes I read the article also. It seems to me the first iteration seems to have a larger drum also. Both iterations have the friction options it's just how you change to friction that's different.


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## hfc (Jan 24, 2003)

Julio's third picture down is what I called the Record. Not sure if they used Syncro terminology for that, but it shifts as nice as any later Ergo stuff. I'm not sure if the second version (wide barrel with knurled know) can be used friction, I haven't seen any way to do that unless you take out the insert.


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## mackgoo (Mar 2, 2004)

The mechanism is discussed in the referenced article,at least I think it's that one, I've read so many they sort of blur together. You simply grab the clip/handle on the end of the barrel pull out and turn a quarter turn, you now have friction operation. 
One point that I forget but recall now is the mechanism itself of the two generations, II uses the little d spring doo dads that ergos use also. For that reason I think I'm going with II.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

I have both early (6-7 spd) and late (8-spd) Syncro 2 shifters.

The difference in barrel diameter is subtle, I just measured. It's 1.8 mm.

Campy never used "Syncro 2" in the Record catalog, they refer to them all as "Syncro". But I have seen a box with "Syncro 2" on it. And in the 1988 Athena catalog they use "Syncro 2" So, as I said earlier Campy were quite confused in their nomenclature.

Both mine, the older and newer use "G" springs.

The text in the 1991 catalog that goes with the Record group picture refers to them as "Syncro" shift levers. For some reason the 1992 &1993 catalog just calls them "shifting levers". I bought mine NIB and the box and instructions just say "Syncro" even though they are clearly 1991.

I have never tried to see if my 1991's will go into friction mode, but the 1993 version is "index only" Perhaps we should be calling these "Syncro 3"


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

I'm still learning. It seems like there was the original Syncro in 1997 then at least 4 iterations of "Syncro 2"

1. The original Syncro with the little friction lever.

2. Then Syncro 2 1988-1990 had index rings for 6 and 7 speeds and g springs. (I have this one)

3. 1991 introduced 8 speeds and the larger diameter spool and body. (I have this one in use). And presumably this coincided with the redesign of the geometry of the RD. So if you have either a 7 or 8-speed cluster this would be my preferred setup over the earlier generation for the much improved shifting. (I had tried the earlier setup and was never completely happy).

4. 1993 added the cable adjuster and was index only.

5. 1995 saw a redesign of the internals.

see this blog post The last gasps of Syncro ~ tears for gears


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## mackgoo (Mar 2, 2004)

For those running 7sp. What's the largest sprocket you've run?


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## GKSki (Nov 12, 2014)

Sorry, but all narrow blocks. In the winter I lock down the low limit screw and run a 12-21 7sp FW.


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## hfc (Jan 24, 2003)

I have a 28 on my Athena Bianchi


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Don't know if this is of interest to anyone here, but I saw these and they're what the conversation is about.

Vintage Campy shifters and parts


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## mackgoo (Mar 2, 2004)

Thanks for the link. Just got NOS. excellent price.


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## mackgoo (Mar 2, 2004)

So I installed the levers today. Took me at least an hour to get the insert in by hand. I wonder about if the insert and springs are orientated correctly but it does seem it's all relative. As long as the slot in the insert and the other steel bush, I guess, are lined up then the lever is in the correct place.
I do have a question. Keep in mind I don't have a freewheel,nor rear derailleur on. When the lever is all the way up, in the position it would be in to be on the smallest sprocket in the back, it seems there's more lever motion to the first click than the motion it takes to get the rest of the successive clicks. Does this sound normal?


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## hfc (Jan 24, 2003)

I wouldn't worry about it. If you look at the insert you'll see that the spaces between the notches aren't all quite equal. I've noticed there is always some "wiggle" in the shifter as well, less so once the cable is on and under tension.


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## mackgoo (Mar 2, 2004)

Thanks. Yes I did notice the spacing irregularities between the notches.


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## mackgoo (Mar 2, 2004)

Back to the freewheels. What 7 speed manufacturer/model freewheels have worked for you?


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## GKSki (Nov 12, 2014)

I always preferred using the Sachs freewheel with Synchro and they later on may have become SRAM. However any Shimano 7sp freewheel should also do as the spacing was the same.


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## hfc (Jan 24, 2003)

Ditto. Sachs-Aris, Shimano 600 or Dura Ace, and throw Suntour Winner in there also.


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## GKSki (Nov 12, 2014)

Used Suntour Winner FWs for years with Superbe Pro. I would argue that their spacing was a bit more proprietary and I don't feel it compared to the Sachs or Shimano. Stay away from those. Their removers are hard to find as well.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

I use the ones referred to above variously as Syncro 8, Syncro 2(1993) and Syncro 3. They are the 8 speed ones with the little cable adjuster (which I've never used).

They work perfectly for me, with a same-era Campy Record RD....... and with a Shimano/Sram cassette. I intended to use the set up with a Shiftmate, but just forgot to install it and it works fine.

I can compare to some Shimano Dura Ace 9 speed indexed downtube shifters I've also used. I think I can say that the Shimano seem smoother, more refined. But both click when they should and the RD goes where it should.


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## mackgoo (Mar 2, 2004)

What should the cog spacing be for 7sp?


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## GKSki (Nov 12, 2014)

mackgoo said:


> What should the cog spacing be for 7sp?


To me 7sp spacing of Sachs or Shimano FWs is the same as 8sp Campy loose cogs.


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## hfc (Jan 24, 2003)

Sheldon always has some good info

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-spacing.html


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

mackgoo said:


> What should the cog spacing be for 7sp?


for 7-spd almost universally, spacing was 5 mm. campy kept this for 8-spd also.


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## mackgoo (Mar 2, 2004)

Thanks. I did find Sheldon's crib sheet. I'm struggling setting the system up. Right now I have a Regina CX S 7 sp freewheel 13-24. I'm having trouble with either the first shift from 13 to 14, if that's correct then I end up over shifting until finally I hit the 24 or 7th cog with my 6th indent. If all the other shifts are good then I can't make the first shift. The spacing of the freewheel does seem correct. What I was measuring was the space between the freewheel and that was right around 3 mm, which is correct. The 5 mm is center to center. I'm running a Sram 850? chain.
The freewheel does have at least a 1/4" "wobble". I took it appart and it does seem to be missing some bearings. I ordered a bunch and when they come in I'll rebuild the freewheel.
Does anyone know if I can pick up Synchro cogs and put them on this body.
One big problem I have is when I started this build I wasn't quite up to speed with all the options out there during this time period. I picked up a C-Record wheel set for a good price but failed to recognize the rear hub was French threaded so I'm having a hard time finding suitable freewheels.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

According to this you should have the blue insert if you have Record

I also found a 9-speed chain to work excellently.


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## GKSki (Nov 12, 2014)

Do you have a Campy 8sp cassette that you can try? My point is that if at shifts correctly, the 7sp FW should shift just as well but may require the high gear limit screw and obviously the low gear limit screw, to block off the 8th detente. Never had a problem going quickly form 8sp Campy loose cog cassette to Sachs/SRAM 7sp FW.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

I believe the shifters that OP bought were an early version. They need to be matched with the RD, as actuation ratios changed during the "Syncro" evolution.

the ad has this to say:



> The insert that comes with this set is blue, which is suggested for the old style classic Campy derailleurs such as old Super Record, Nuovo Record, and Victory being used with a narrow 7 speed freewheel. Note that we cannot guarantee shift performance as that is highly dependent on proper setup. These can be fussy to get working right. You will need to install the insert but that is pretty straightforward. And you do get the original instruction sheet nicely wrapped too!


In post #10 I had mentioned my difficulties getting the earlier (meaning 1988-1990) setup to work well (I believe I was using a Victory RD at the time). After switching to a later shifter and RD I achieved shifting perfection.


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## mackgoo (Mar 2, 2004)

So I just about have this dialed in. I have an Aris 7 sp freewheel and it's actually shifting great.
I'm wondering if someone who has a Campy 7sp set up, C Record would be ideal if they could take a couple pictures of their chain line. Big ring/ little cog, little ring/ big cog. Also a picture or measurement would be better, of the space between the face of the BB and the drive side crank where it places on the spindle.

Thanks


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## GKSki (Nov 12, 2014)

Big ring/littlest cog, both wheels on the ground, RD cage at 90d. That's all that is needed.


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## mackgoo (Mar 2, 2004)

I'm asking if anyone who has a 7 speed set up would be willing to take the few pictures requested so I can see what their chain line looks like. That's all that's needed.


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## mackgoo (Mar 2, 2004)

Done. Arts 12-26 7 speed. Everything shifts perfectly. Move the lever to a click and it shifts to the next cog, up and down. Now I can just enjoy the ride for a while. 
Always on the look out for better condition components.


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