# About a department store bike...



## wuZheng (Jun 11, 2009)

So, I've ridden 50km in a recent "ride for x-cause" type of thing on a department store mountain bike. Apparently this is/was a bad idea according to everything I've read thus far from people who consider themselves more serious cyclists. 

I agree, that was probably more straining than say riding on a proper road bike...

Long story short, I plan to do a similar event by the end of the summer (so, getting more serious) but 80-100km this time, and I plan to do it on a bike that was more suited to pavement. I don't have the cash to spare for even an entry-level road/hybrid bike, and I plan to wait until the Toronto Bike Show to buy a better bike anyways.

Heres where this: Schwinn Circuit XST Hybrid Bike from Canadian Tire (store link) comes in...

The specs I could find by visual inspection of the bike instore:
Rear derailleur: Shimano Altus 8-sprocket config
Front derailleur: a piece of metal that moves.
Shifters: shimano indexed shifters of some kind..
Frame weight: ~29lbs.
Frame size: 18" or 46cm (I'm about 5' 7")
Front fork: aluminum

...and thats all I could glean by just looking at the parts...

The price of the bike was $320 CDN, but has now dropped to $240 CDN, before I was considering maybe finding an older Specialized Sirrus or a 2008 Giant FCR3, but I know of no entry-level bike that even reaches the $240 CDN price level, and like I said I'm pretty strapped for cash as a student.

The question still lingers at the back of my head though, am I ultimately wasting my money on this purchase? Is this bike every bit as horrible as every other "department store bike" that everyone seems to gripe about? I'd very much appreciate any input from you guys.


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## Miiles (Oct 25, 2008)

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=175476


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Wasting money? 
Nope, Scrap steel is about 200.00 a ton right now. If you got a new bike each time you rode it 50 KM. Did the ride 69 times you could scrap all 69 bikes and get $200.00. As you can see here it is not a total waste. You do realize that the total cost for these "machines" would be around $16560.00 it may have been cheaper to find a nice used bike. Check CL there are always 5-8 year old bikes some sap is unloading out of his living room for a song.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I quickly searched around and found no references to the bikes geo. Most likely, the 46cm measurement is ST length, but without knowing more about the geo, there's no guarantee the bike will fit someone of your stature.


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## wuZheng (Jun 11, 2009)

Heh, A from II, you're hilarious.... to a certain extent. There is a secondary reason for purchasing this bike I guess, besides the fact its a holdover until I get a full-fledged, fitted LBS bike, it also will probably be a good commuter bike I would be willing to ride around Hamilton, ON. That is, a bike that isn't the bike worth $600-$1000.

On a sidenote A from II, how much does scrap aluminum cost? =)


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

wuZheng said:


> Heh, A from II, you're hilarious.... to a certain extent. There is a secondary reason for purchasing this bike I guess, besides the fact its a holdover until I get a full-fledged, fitted LBS bike, it also will probably be a good commuter bike I would be willing to ride around Hamilton, ON. That is, a bike that isn't the bike worth $600-$1000.


For your intended purposes, it's probably not a bad choice. If it were a road bike I'd be more concerned about sizing/ fit, but generally speaking IME hybrids are a little easier to work with. Still, I'd say a 46cm STL is on the short side for someone 5'7" which _may_ mean the effective TT length is going to be too short (unless you've a short torso). A longer stem can accommodate, but only to a point.


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## wuZheng (Jun 11, 2009)

PJ352 said:


> For your intended purposes, it's probably not a bad choice. If it were a road bike I'd be more concerned about sizing/ fit, but generally speaking IME hybrids are a little easier to work with. Still, I'd say a 46cm STL is on the short side for someone 5'7" which may mean the effective TT length is going to be too short (unless you've a short torso). A longer stem can accommodate, but only to a point.


I did find the frame somewhat smaller than that of the mountain I mentioned, but riding the bike didn't err.. "feel" uncomfortable, if I leaned all the way forward on that bike, about half my head goes beyond the handlebars, if I stretch, probably about my entire head... is this a bad thing for sizing, or can I just adjust the seat height to compensate?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

wuZheng said:


> I did find the frame somewhat smaller than that of the mountain I mentioned, but riding the bike didn't err.. "feel" uncomfortable, if I leaned all the way forward on that bike, about half my head goes beyond the handlebars, if I stretch, probably about my entire head... is this a bad thing for sizing, or can I just adjust the seat height to compensate?


Don't take this the wrong way, but your head beyond bars measurement is of no real value. Further, saddle adjustments are unrelated to reach, so no, you should not use the height (or fore/ aft for that matter) to adjust for that. If anything, a longer stem would be the fix, to a point.

But if you think the frame is sized a little small and the cockpit is somewhat cramped, I suggest you pass on this bike. There are others, including the used market, and considering the importance of fit I'd definitely go that route - assuming you're still opposed to a session at the LBS, which would be the ideal.

Only you can decide what degree of comfort is comfortable enough (that you'll actually ride).


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

hell, did the bike feel good to you? 50km is quite a ride, but if it felt good to you on that dept. store bike, there's not much reason to get a new one.


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## wuZheng (Jun 11, 2009)

PJ352 said:


> Don't take this the wrong way, but your head beyond bars measurement is of no real value. Further, saddle adjustments are unrelated to reach, so no, you should not use the height (or fore/ aft for that matter) to adjust for that. If anything, a longer stem would be the fix, to a point.
> 
> But if you think the frame is sized a little small and the cockpit is somewhat cramped, I suggest you pass on this bike. There are others, including the used market, and considering the importance of fit I'd definitely go that route - assuming you're still opposed to a session at the LBS, which would be the ideal.
> 
> Only you can decide what degree of comfort is comfortable enough (that you'll actually ride).


Yea.... well there is a reason why I'm posting in the beginner's corner :idea: 

The ride is comfortable I sat on it at the store for a brief moment and to the store rep's chagrin, rode laps around the store (others reading, not recommended)... I could see myself comfortably riding this bike for hours on end. But is that even a valid metric for sizing? What exactly are the effects of sizing mismatch?? Besides the obvious discomfort and potential RSIs to go with it?

To be fair, I have been to a local shop, there are a few good ones around here. They were nice, provided the necessary education, and yea given I was willing to unload on a bike right then and there I probably would have bought that Sirrus Elite.... but I didn't, LBS places are great, don't have a problem with that, do however have a problem with reality of money, the used market, and the shops trying to sell me things they KNOW are out my price range. The last one was rare, but it did happen and was kind off-putting.

I did however at one point consider... this.

But with the bike show looming at around October 17th 2009 I figure I could get a better bike for the same price then, right? (or... equivalently, something like the FCR 3 for substantially less).


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## tyo (Feb 2, 2009)

Just to chime in, a hybrid bike, while great for getting around town (my commuter is a trek hybrid) and the bike path on the beach, is not a "proper" road bike. In terms of efficiency and speed, it would go between the mtb with slicks and a road bike, leaning closer to the mtb. The only reason I say this is, if you've already done one long charity ride, with more planned, and the training and conditioning that goes along with that, then it seems you're pretty much into cycling as a sport, or at least serious hobby/recreation. The hybrid bike will get you a step up, but you'll probably be wanting an actual road bike soon thereafter. I would also suggest going used, but you mentioned you had a problem with the used market - what is it that puts you off about that?


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## wuZheng (Jun 11, 2009)

There is just a bit too much uncertainty in putting faith in the used market, it could go badly, and yea I realize thats the reality of the used market, increased risk... people have different tolerance levels for risk. Kinda like how I wouldn't buy those cars at the sidewalk with a for sale sign on them. I've seen people burned before by bad purchases. And even on the used end... there aren't many bikes that dip below $300 CDN... unless they actually happen to have been department store bikes themselves... in which case... why would I buy a used DSB? So... on the used front, it comes down to risk, inconvenience of looking, and prices generally still not being "really" affordable.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

wuZheng said:


> Yea.... well there is a reason why I'm posting in the beginner's corner :idea:
> 
> The ride is comfortable I sat on it at the store for a brief moment and to the store rep's chagrin, rode laps around the store (others reading, not recommended)... I could see myself comfortably riding this bike for hours on end. But is that even a valid metric for sizing? What exactly are the effects of sizing mismatch?? Besides the obvious discomfort and potential RSIs to go with it?
> 
> ...


Ok, point taken re: posting in the beginner forum.  

Straddling a bike or cruising around a store doesn't constitute a test ride, so no that's not a valid indicator that you could 'ride the bike for hours'. The effects of a sizing (or even fitting) mismatch are many - sore knees, neck, shoulders, back, hands. Name that body part, and it could hurt. That's when the bike sits and gathers dust somewhere, because you won't ride it. 

FWIW, tyo brings up a couple of good points about hybrids versus road bikes, but if you'd prefer to stick with a flat bar bike for now, that's fine too. Just something to consider. I will say that (generally speaking) road bikes are pricier than hybrids, so that's one drawback.

There's nothing at all wrong with the Giant you linked to and the bonus is you'd work with the bike shop on sizing/ fitting. I say definitely pursue that if the bike interests you and you can swing the extra few bucks. They'll probably also offer after the purchase services such as tune ups, so another plus in their column.

A better price at a bike show is an unknown. Maybe you would make out better, maybe not. But do you want to wait till October to decide?


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## kykr13 (Apr 12, 2008)

PJ352 said:


> There's nothing at all wrong with the Giant you linked to and the bonus is you'd work with the bike shop on sizing/ fitting. I say definitely pursue that if the bike interests you and you can swing the extra few bucks.


I'd say this is good advice. Could be cheaper in the long run to do it this way but of course you'd have to come up with the extra now. Waiting for a bike show is risky - you might find nothing you want or might not find any good deals. And then you have less time to ride it before the event.

PS - thanks for the idea, I totally know what I'm doing the next time I get dragged into Target.


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## wuZheng (Jun 11, 2009)

I gotta say PJ352, I really appreciate your input on this, you've been really helpful.

And... although its an uncertainty about better prices at a bike show. This particular bike show... Toronto International Bike Show, its actually used by the local bike shops around the Greater Toronto Area to clearout old/over stock of everything from bikes to accessories. 

The biggest uncertainty in banking on this show is that the deals on the actual bikes go really FAST, so I'd have to get there earlier, but its a Saturday, so I think I'm good =). But since, we are talking about the local bike shops, these are brand new bikes with quality components are what are purported to be sold at great discounts. So to answer your question, yes I would be willing to bank on this show/sale. 

The United Way ride takes place on August 30th, and about a week after I move into a university dorm, and I want to bring a bike to school so I can keep (relatively) fit during school. Schools are notorious for places of all sorts of minor theft... so, I'd rather not discover one day that (hypothetically) my $500-$1000 bike got jacked while I was attending a lecture or lab. I'll feel a bit better about such a big purchase if it was out of harm's way while I ride a relatively expendable bike. 

I will use my best judgement about the fitting/sizing of the bike. But as for the quality of the bike (regardless of size) itself, does it appear like it will do the job for regular 25km training runs and the looming 80-100km ride? I guess thats the one question I really need answered first.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

All points taken. You're far more familiar with the bike show, so if you think it's worth the wait by all means do so. 

Push come to shove, the Schwinn will fill the bill for what you want to do as long as you're willing and able to endure any discomfort. I'm not saying any will occur, but in the event that it does, I'm not sure turning back is an option. Is It??  

If you do go with the Schwinn, if you find the reach too short make a quick stop in a LBS and see if they'll work some kind of swap for a longer stem. It still probably won't be the ideal set up, but you might be a bit more comfortable.


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## wuZheng (Jun 11, 2009)

Thanks everyone, will take all advice under well... advisement...


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

wuZheng said:


> Thanks everyone, will take all advice under well... advisement...


Please dont take what I wrote wrong. The point is that craigs list and other places are loaded with deals on better stuff. Shop used and you will get alot more. 

I just bought a 54 CM Specialized Sirrus Comp with good parts on it in excellent shape for 150.00. All it needed was some tires and tubes and its a rider. Deals are to be had.


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## Hooben (Aug 22, 2004)

The bike you have brought to our attention is not an "event" bike. If in fact you are strapped for cash, then you should be using the bike to go and get groceries. The bike is very well suited for getting groceries, riding to class and locking it up to a pole with no fear at all. The fact that you say strapped for cash and event are just not matching up. I am strapped for cash, but decided that I love events so much...my bike costs more than my car. In fact it is the most expensive thing that I own. You need to make a choice. What is most important to you. Looking and performing like trash at the event, or locking you bike to a pole with no worries.


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## poptart-on-rye (Apr 12, 2009)

I live in Michigan, you live near Toronto... we both know if you wait till October for the bike show, and find a bike, you'll only get to ride it for about 2 weeks before the weather changes and you have to store it for about 8 months!!!! :cryin: 

Okay, I exaggerated a bit with those time frames, but seriously you're not going to be able to ride much before winter, and you might be happier spending a bit more money now and actually have several months to ride.


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## emoney (May 9, 2009)

I bought my wife that same bike from Wally world, and I would say NO!!!! Just my humble opion anyway. For less money, I bought myself a used Fuji, 2006 from a pawn shop. Sure, it looked horrible but it rode great. It allowed me to know for sure I was gonna like this whole cycling thing. In the past couple of months, I have now sold the Fuji, which I made $25.00 on, and built myself a Look road bike that I can keep for a long, long time. And, the 'Schwinn", we bought my wife, didn't make it two weeks. She now rides a Redline that we picked up for $400.00, new, with flat bars instead of drop bars.
I don't think you're gaining a whole lot over what you currently ride, because that bike is heavy (it's over 29 pounds, btw), and still has the suspension which goes 'against' road cycling.


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## wuZheng (Jun 11, 2009)

emoney said:


> I bought my wife that same bike from Wally world, and I would say NO!!!! Just my humble opion anyway. For less money, I bought myself a used Fuji, 2006 from a pawn shop. Sure, it looked horrible but it rode great. It allowed me to know for sure I was gonna like this whole cycling thing. In the past couple of months, I have now sold the Fuji, which I made $25.00 on, and built myself a Look road bike that I can keep for a long, long time. And, the 'Schwinn", we bought my wife, didn't make it two weeks. She now rides a Redline that we picked up for $400.00, new, with flat bars instead of drop bars.
> I don't think you're gaining a whole lot over what you currently ride, because that bike is heavy (it's over 29 pounds, btw), and still has the suspension which goes 'against' road cycling.


Not to make a scathing remark in return for what was surely well-intentioned. But, you obviously did not bother to either click the link to actual bike, or read the subsequent thread concerning the pros and cons of going with this bike. It seems like instead, you went for the defacto stance of the more serious road cycling community, if its department store, its trash, "nuff said" kind of attitude. 

Or else, oh well, you know, you would've known the bike doesn't have "against-road-biking" suspension.

For the rest of you reading this and actually care... I went out and bought the bike... yea I know, but if it was a mistake, its my mistake to make, and I'll eventually find out its a mistake anyways. For those interested... I had a bit more time to examine the bike...

Front derailleur: no markings/brand, just a piece of metal that moves with shifter...
Rear derailleur: Shimano Altus
Crankset: SR Suntour Triple crankset(it says alloy crank, w.e that means)
Rims: "Double wall alloy" (again, no idea what that means)
Shifters: Shimano's "EZ-fire" index shifters

The frame is something I'm not qualified to judge... but it fits me well, it rides very comfortably, so I guess sizing wasn't an issue after all. The material used is supposedly aluminum. I can also pick this bike up with one hand very very easily. I'm a guy who struggles to do 4 sets of 10 reps on 20lb weights, so I say the ~29lb. estimate seems at least semi-accurate with a degree of accuracy at around +/- 5lbs.

Didn't mean to reignite this thread after I made my decision... but yea, felt the need to break down someone's apparent knee-jerk reaction to the words: department, store, and bike (in one sentence, no less, the audacity of wuZheng!)


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## emoney (May 9, 2009)

I'm at a loss as to how one takes a 'knee jerk reaction' from personal experience. Yes, there are 'road snobs' that exsist all over this forum...however, having said that, there are also the opposite and that's 'department store snobs', of which sadly your opinion seems to have fallen. Had you read the post, you would have seen the 'personal experience'. And, for those who know biking, the replacement bike in this particular case would most definitely be looked down upon by those 'serious road cyclists', but it fits her just fine and that's all that is of concern. Doesn't matter where you get the bike from as long as it's safe and well constructed. By responding to the initial question, one could have assumed that you were looking for hands-on, experienced viewpoints...maybe I misread that.


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## atimido (Jun 17, 2009)

A from Il said:


> Please dont take what I wrote wrong. The point is that craigs list and other places are loaded with deals on better stuff.



That is good advice. Even though you may be paying a little more for a used good bike, it is worth it if you are serious about the sport. Some bike manufacturers put their name on department store bikes to keep business up and stay out of bankruptcy.


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## poptart-on-rye (Apr 12, 2009)

delete.


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## B15serv (Apr 27, 2008)

go to ebay. $300-400 will get you a more than decent used bike.


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## wuZheng (Jun 11, 2009)

emoney said:


> ...department store snob...


Okay, I revise my last, you didn't make a knee-jerk reaction reply, just a severely out of context one. Followed up by a really confusing one, with the quoted line. 

Here you assume two things: 
1) There is such thing as a "department store snob" 
2) That I have a particularly heavy bias

I have tried to be very open-minded about the wonderful world of biking, I really have. However, I am too often met with aforementioned "road snobbery" than "open arms" when I actually encounter road bikers (IRL). Especially when it comes to the apparently very sensitive issue of bike part/build/assembly quality of DSBs and LBS. 

I have already agreed that in my opinion, the LBS shops are great, they offer great service, good knowledgeable staff, and a great variety/quality in selection. What they didn't offer me was the hook that would make me make that leap of faith to buy one of those bikes. 

Also I'm someone whos more likely to ease myself slowly into the sport. I'm only riding about 15km every other day for good exercise. I thought maybe if I got something that wasn't a mountain bike, I could go farther and really take more out of my rides and potentially do some more "ride for x-cause" events with a little bit more kick, because you know, its fun!

But yea, you know, if I get really into it over this summer, I will drop by that Bike Show in October and consider unloading on a proper event bike. For now, I have to say, for a bike I bought for $250 Canadian, its one hell of a holdover for a better bike.

And again, if I haven't iterated this enough, I AM grateful for the advice that everyones given, even you emoney. You guys have definitively proven that the community isn't filled with "road snobs" and as a result, I'm not "turned off" of the idea of getting more into this sport.

Thank you all.


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## vkalia (Jun 3, 2009)

I realize that this discussion is academic as you've already bought your bike, but I think you are being overly contrarian here.

There is nothing wrong with buying a beater bike for the purpose of easing into the sport and also having something relatively disposable for campus use. 

However, you would have probably gotten a better value with a used, old brand-name bike than a new department store one. That's what a lot of people have been trying to tell you.

If the bias against DSBs was purely snobbery, then there would be some people who would have chimed in favor of them (unless you really think ALL roadies are snobs). Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar, and sometimes, the haters are justified.

You mentioned that the LBS did not offer you a hook to take a leap of faith - fair enough. But is it possible that you might have needed a large-enough hook b/c you came in with certain preconceptions of your own?

Anyway, that is all moot. Enjoy your ride and do update us about which bike you buy at the trade show.

V.

PS: One area where I will disagree - one 50k ride will not hurt you that much even if the fit is a little off. However, do use your beater to get a good idea of your specific fit requirements.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Good post. I think the logic you used in making your decision was sound, and it actually touched on something that is fairly prevalent. That being, a tendancy for many noobs (as well as not so noobs) to 'over buy' what they really need. You were very realisitc in getting a bike that would perform at a certain level for your intended purposes, but many riders aren't so connected with their needs, more, their wants. And to justify the purchase, they mention staving off upgrades, like that's gonna happen. 

Good luck with your new ride, I'm glad you're enjoying it. Ride safe and ride often and maybe touch base with us when that bike show starts. As you know, we're all just FULL of suggestions! :thumbsup:


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## Psykotic_Sheep (Jul 20, 2009)

Canadian Tire carries this bike (Schwinn Circuit XST) for $239.

I just bought a Surly LHT and thinking of buying the above-mentioned bike for quick city commutes and grocery shopping. The price seems right for peace of mind, not having to worry about it getting damaged, stolen, etc. It rides smooth, and I think I won't have a problem with it riding around the seawall in Stanley Park.


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## hayman03 (Jul 27, 2009)

i just purchased the schwinn tourist from target for 249 and after looking at the LBS it has the same components as the 400+ bikes like the diamondback insight and GT zum. I dont think its a back deal for a entry level bike.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

hayman03 said:


> i just purchased the schwinn tourist from target for 249 and after looking at the LBS it has the same components as the 400+ bikes like the diamondback insight and GT zum. I dont think its a back deal for a entry level bike.


I'm thinking that if you looked a little deeper there would be other differences in the bikes you are comparing. But that aside, many noobs think like you do.. the great deal is the cheaper bike with better components. Problem is, you _ride_ a bike and how you _fit _on it makes a world of difference, so assistance with fit from the LBS has value as well. If you doubt this, read some threads in this forum. Lots of folks needed to 'save some money' upfront, went the used or dept store route, only to either not ride the bike because it was ill fitting or bought another from a LBS that fit, which in the long run ends up costing more.

Don't get me wrong here. I hope your experiences are all positive ones and you enjoy your new ride. But by letting your post stand 'as is' without showing another side, I'm fearful another noob will buy into this and not be aware of potential pitfalls - and they _do_ exist.


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## hayman03 (Jul 27, 2009)

i know about the importance of getting fitted i looked at road bikes where im a 49-50cm frame size and the trek 7.1 where im a 17.5 frame the schwinn has a 18" frame and similiar geometry. I would say anyone larger than 5'9" would not like this bike though.


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## Soundtallica (Sep 24, 2011)

Don't go for dept. store bikes. Take some time and look for some used bikes. I got every part for this 18 pound bike (link below) for a total of $250 save for the STi levers. 250 bucks! And I love it. You could easily get something very good, if not as good as my bike, in the $150 to $200 range that is department store territory.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bikes-frames-forks/where-did-my-bike-come-273938.html

However, If you don't have the patience or need a bike right now and can't spend time, I have nothing to say. Anything that can potentially get you into cycling is a good thing.


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## 1bamafan14 (Jan 24, 2012)

Buy a bike from CL. That way you at least get a bike you can upgrade and build on.


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## D&MsDad (Jul 17, 2007)

Newb. tip: look at the dates on any posts that you reply to. 

You've dredged up a post from 2.5 years ago. I doubt that your advice is relevant now. It is doubtful that the original poster is even around here anymore.





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## 1bamafan14 (Jan 24, 2012)

Looks like you found it so aren't you doing the same thing?


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## D&MsDad (Jul 17, 2007)

1bamafan14 said:


> Looks like you found it so aren't you doing the same thing?


Nope.

I opened a thread that was on the first page of the forum (meaning it contained a recent post). The forum view shows the date of the last post, not the first. After opening it, I noticed that the thread was old, looked to see why it was opened, and... voila! Here we are.




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## Magickiller88 (Mar 2, 2012)

Couple hundred bucks more can get you a nice bike at a bike store


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