# Framebuilding: Drop Outs for Super Commuter



## UrbanPrimitive (Jun 14, 2009)

Here's the plan:

I'm working on framebuilding. I have all my tubes, tools, files, et cetera. More important than that I have access to an oxy/acetylene torch, Anvil frame jig, and an experienced builder to who's teaching me how to avoid screwing up horrendously. Naturally there will be lots of practice before the actual tubes go into the jig. Moving on.

What I'm trying to decide on is my drop out selection. The plan is to make a big tired road bike with room for studded tires with fenders. I also intend to make this frame multispeed friendly as well as fixed friendly. I haven't ridden a multispeed bike in years and don't know how much I'll appreciate it. So the question is whether it would be better to go with rear facing horizontal drop outs with a derailleur hanger or forward facing horizontal drop outs with a derailleur hanger.

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Keep in mind that this bike will likely be ridden geared and fixed. It will also have fenders and racks. Planned riding is year round commuting in Michigan. Snow, rain, road, gravel, and MUPs are all considerations. So now the question is what the pros and cons are.

My gut says forward facing horizontal drops will be easier for tires changes/flat repair with fenders and such in place. The rear facing drops look pretty nifty to me. Other than looking cool I don't know if there are any significant benefits. Thoughts? Opinions? What would you want if it were your frame?

P.S. Don't bother with any "man up" posts about switching from fixed to geared please. The whole point of this build is flexibility. Similarly, please don't tell me there's no reason to consider riding fixed if I have gears. Thanks in advance.


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## wooglin (Feb 22, 2002)

The advantage of the track fork-ends (the technical name for the rear-facing dropouts) is that you can use tension screws to set your chain tension and not worry about slippage in the dropouts, which is nice for fixed/ss. That said, I've been running fixed with traditional horizontal dropouts for years with no problem, and use the set screws at the back of the dropouts to center the wheel quickly during changes. And you're right about the tire changes with fenders. I think that's your main selling point for the traditional horizontal dropouts.


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## cyclintruckin (Feb 10, 2012)

I do not know which I am more impressed with, building a frame or the fact you actually spelled out "et cetera". Best of luck to you I will watching post to see how it turns out.


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## jrm (Dec 23, 2001)

Ok if you do forward facing/hanger consider a EBB. if you do track ends with hanger consider welding tugs into the track ends.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

If you're going with fenders wouldn't you be fighting with the track ends every time that you had a flat?


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## UrbanPrimitive (Jun 14, 2009)

Velodog - My thoughts exactly. Running with forward facing horizontal drop outs presents the opportunity to keep the fenders in place while replacing the rear wheel or fixing a flat. The complication there is tire clearance. I'm planning on running pretty fat tires. There's a fair amount of snow and ice here, so 35c studded Nokians need to fit. I don't know if I can manage chainstay clearance to slip out an inflated 35c tire from a forward facing drop out. I'll probably pick the brain of my frame mentor about this.

jrm - Given the plan to use a horizontal drop out there's no need for a eccentric bottom bracket. The horizontal drop out gives plenty of room for adjustment were I to run the bike fixed. I've been riding fixed for a while and have never had a problem with the rear wheel slipping. As such I'd probably skip the chain tugs as well. Though, as a point of interest, if the tugs were permanently installed it would be impossible to remove the rear wheel. Set screws pushing the axle back (threaded through the fork ends) are a different matter.

wooglin - Thanks for your reply. I've never had a problem with a slipping wheel when riding fixed. I've pushed some decently large gears on the road without any issue there, so I'm not very concerned about the wheel ejecting itself. I think I'm probably just trying to convince myself that the forward facing drops are as practical as I think they are. I love the design work on the fork ends, but I think this would be a misapplication of the tech.

cyclintruckin - We aim to please.

Thanks for the input everybody. I'll keep you posted as things develop. Hopefully this time next year I'll be mashing through the snow on a Centaur powered all-rounder.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

What about S-bend chain stays as used by CX bikes and 29ers? Wouldn't they give you the clearence you need?


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## B2 (Mar 12, 2002)

UrbanPrimitive said:


> Velodog - My thoughts exactly. Running with forward facing horizontal drop outs presents the opportunity to keep the fenders in place while replacing the rear wheel or fixing a flat. The complication there is tire clearance. I'm planning on running pretty fat tires. There's a fair amount of snow and ice here, so 35c studded Nokians need to fit. I don't know if I can manage chainstay clearance to slip out an *inflated* 35c tire from a forward facing drop out. I'll probably pick the brain of my frame mentor about this.


I think you've already found a potential solution to the clearance issue. Install the wheel before you inflate it. I used to have a Colnago Ovalmaster with really short chainstays. The only way I could get a 700x23 in was to inflate the tire after the wheel was reinstalled. Another potential solution for the clearance issue would be to go with vertical dropouts and a EBB. Quite functional, but without the classic look of the horizontal dropouts which could justifiably eliminate an EBB as an option if that's what you're looking for.


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## rmsmith (Feb 15, 2007)

Did you consider fixed drop-outs and an eccentric bottom bracket?


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Your chain stay length will likely be pretty long once you design in the necessary clearance for the tire/fender. That clearance will probably make for pretty easy wheel removal with forward facing dropouts. 

I have seen spring mounted fenders (spring with a long bolt that passes through the chainstay bridge and can slide) that allow the front of the fender to move forward (into the space created by the spring) to facilitate easier wheel removal.


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