# Bar end shifters... beginner question



## le0p

Just bought a Surly Cross Check as my first Cross bike (which also happens to be my first road style bike period, previously just did mountain biking) and I had a question about bar-end shifters. They seemed a little awkward to me and even though I started to get used to them by the end of my first ride, it still seemed like I was having to think more and move around the bars more than I should to shift (not to mention that I knee'd it a couple times while climbing out of the saddle). 

So, on to my question. What are the benefit of these style shifters for cross? Is there any or is it just preference? Was my bike shop guy full of it? Just wondering, other than this, I love the bike and I'm working on getting back into biking shape (had been marathon training all last year and came out with a nice knee injury).


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## colinr

le0p said:


> Just bought a Surly Cross Check as my first Cross bike (which also happens to be my first road style bike period, previously just did mountain biking) and I had a question about bar-end shifters. They seemed a little awkward to me and even though I started to get used to them by the end of my first ride, it still seemed like I was having to think more and move around the bars more than I should to shift (not to mention that I knee'd it a couple times while climbing out of the saddle).
> 
> So, on to my question. What are the benefit of these style shifters for cross? Is there any or is it just preference? Was my bike shop guy full of it? Just wondering, other than this, I love the bike and I'm working on getting back into biking shape (had been marathon training all last year and came out with a nice knee injury).


The only benefit is that they are cheap and light. Functionally, they suck, although some people will probably disagree. But brifters blow them away, really.


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## buck-50

The big advantage of bar end shifters is that they are cheap and practically bulletproof- it would take a head-on collision with a truck to stop one from working. 

They do take practice. What you really end up doing is learning to anticipate shifts more than shifting whenever you feel the need- you shift before the climb rather than on it. 

A couple advantages- they are light. You can dump an entire cassette in one shift (though how often do you need to do that?) if yer derailleur gets out of adjustment, you can switch to friction and keep shifting (though shifting a 9 speed cassette in friction mode from the bar ends is a recipe for frustration).

One thing you can do to move them up where you can reach them easier is to get a set of Paul's thumbies. go to http://www.paulcomp.com/ , look up thumb shifters. These are basically mounts that allow you to move your bar end shifters up to the tops like old-school thumb shifters. Still cheaper than STI levers...


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## blackhat

colinr said:


> The only benefit is that they are cheap and light. Functionally, they suck, although some people will probably disagree. But brifters blow them away, really.


Ill disagree. it doesn't sound like he's planning on winning a bunch of CX races on his surly so the competitive benefits to having your hand on your shifters constantly aren't a factor. that leads us to benefits for recreational riding, commuting, touring etc.- the bar ends aren't going to crap out after 5k miles requiring complete replacement like "brifters", they'll almost always shift better in freezing temps, they'll shift <i>anything</i> and they're as you say cheap and light. front shifting with friction is simpler, cable changes are simpler, everything simpler. you can crash them pretty much non stop and theyll still get you home....I could go on.


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## colinr

blackhat said:


> Ill disagree. it doesn't sound like he's planning on winning a bunch of CX races on his surly so the competitive benefits to having your hand on your shifters constantly aren't a factor. that leads us to benefits for recreational riding, commuting, touring etc.- the bar ends aren't going to crap out after 5k miles requiring complete replacement like "brifters", they'll almost always shift better in freezing temps, they'll shift <i>anything</i> and they're as you say cheap and light. front shifting with friction is simpler, cable changes are simpler, everything simpler. you can crash them pretty much non stop and theyll still get you home....I could go on.


Yes, but his original question was



le0p said:


> So, on to my question. What are the benefit of these style shifters for cross? Is there any or is it just preference?


To me, "cross" implies racing. So I say that they are cheap and light, but perform significantly worse under race conditions than brifters. 

I should have added reliability to their list of pros. Under extreme conditions they do work a bit better, I have heard of people wrecking brifters by burying them in a sand pit, for example.


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## TWD

As mentioned already, light, bulletproof, and shift very reliably. 

Biggest downside for cross is that you have to reach down to the drop to shift. Most people spend the majority of their time on the hoods, and very little in the drops, so every time you want to shift, you have to take your hand off the hood and reach down. 

With all of the momentum changes and rough terrain (on some courses) reaching back and forth is less than ideal. 

Also, some folks have problems with inadvertantly hitting the shifter with their knee when out of the saddle.

They definitely have their applications, but in IMO brifters (man I hate that term) are better suited to 'cross racing.


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## blackhat

colinr said:


> Yes, but his original question was
> 
> 
> 
> To me, "cross" implies racing. So I say that they are cheap and light, but perform significantly worse under race conditions than brifters.
> 
> .


missed that, you're right. for a racing bike, if you're planning on being competitive, STI's rule the day.


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## Doggity

They're cheap. They're simple. They're bombproof. They'll shift for ya almost no matter how much mud gets into your drive train. I believe that is why they put 'em on cross bikes, and tourers. You could go with Paul Thumbies, but try adjusting first to where they are now. It doesn't take that long. I've got brifters on my current roadie, but am seriously considering going back to Silver Shifters on my next build. They give a much better feel for what you're doing; it doesn't take long to get used to 'em. Hell, that's how people rode for the 1st 100 years (or however long derailleurs have been around), period.


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## pretender

You will get used to them very quickly. The advantages are simplicity, reliability, and durability. To some they are horribly old-fashioned and inconvenient, but not to me. I think my riding style is a bit old-fashioned, though. I don't spend 95% of my time on the hoods, I use the tops alot, as well as the hoods and the drops, so I'd be reaching to shift anyway.

In addition to the Paul Thumbie, another option is the Kelly Take-off, which puts the shifter closer to the hoods and tops:








IIRC they are no longer being made but I think you can find them on eBay pretty easily.


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## wim

*Made sense, back in the day.*



le0p said:


> What are the benefit of these style shifters for cross?


If you would have asked "what _was_ the benefit of these shifters for cross," the answer would be that they allowed you to shift with both hands on the bar—_unlike downtube shifters_. When brake shifters killed downtube shifters, bar ends lost that unique distinction.


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## gewilli

being able to shift with your knees IS an advantage IMHO...

if you are the ultimate weight wheenie or cheapskate, these are the answer to your prayers...

unlike STI they will outlast your ders 10:1

and if you ever get tired of Cross and decide you want to tri sucking at three sports you can stuff the bar cons into a set of aero bars...

everyone should own a set of barcons... they freakin ROCK... (yes, mine are in a bag with a spare 9sp D/A rear Der... but if i ever get a second cross bike... i got something to bolt on real quick).


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## le0p

Thanks for the info, I don't plan on changing anything yet and for how I'm using the bike right now I'm not really worried about efficiency. Only been out for one ride so far and by the end of 20 miles I was getting the hang of them pretty well, the benefits were just lost to me... Good stuff to know though.


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## meat tooth paste

Barend shifters are extremely reliable and fully adjustable. That's why you see them on adventure touring bikes. Brifters rely on proper cable tension and der alignment/setup. 

If on a ride you find index shifter to be off and you get shifting problems, you can always switch to friction mode and trim as needed to get proper shifting until you get to a point where you can adjust/fix.

I dig barend shifters alot, however I wouldn't race with them...too slow IMO. But for commuting, touring, fireroad riding barends are sweet.

I just ordered a set of Kelly Take Offs. You can get some of those and move the barends up near the levers.

One more reason why some people use barends is because they use long pull drop brake levers, like the old Tektro 287v or the new Cane Creek Drop V levers to use stronger V-brakes. Brifters don't pull enough cable. Although I am surprised Shimano doesn't make a Tiagra levle brifter that can pull v-brakes, seems like a good offering for touring bikes and cross.


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## argylesocks

would you settle for the girl from Ugly Betty, when you could have Selma Hayek instead?

yeah, neither would I.


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## pretender

argylesocks said:


> would you settle for the girl from Ugly Betty, when you could have Selma Hayek instead?
> 
> yeah, neither would I.


The analogy is way off, because in truth, you settle for your right hand.


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## blackhat

argylesocks said:


> would you settle for the girl from Ugly Betty, when you could have Selma Hayek instead?
> 
> yeah, neither would I.


if it's pure aesthetics you're after, I find DA downtube shifters to be much more pleasing to my eyes with their sleek lines and minimal housing than barcons or ergos.


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## argylesocks

huh? what the hell are you guys talking about?

my point is, if you have the option for superior technology, why would you go back to stuff thats 20 years old?

yes, i know there are pro's to them. for a winter commuter, i can see. but for a cross racing bike, it seems silly to me not to just get STI shifters.

my opinion, u dont have to agree.


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## blackhat

argylesocks said:


> huh? what the hell are you guys talking about?
> 
> my point is, if you have the option for superior technology, why would you go back to stuff thats 20 years old?
> 
> yes, i know there are pro's to them. for a winter commuter, i can see. but for a cross racing bike, it seems silly to me not to just get STI shifters.
> 
> my opinion, u dont have to agree.



if that's your point, using the girl from Ugly Betty and Selma Hayek to make it was an odd way to make it. selmas nearly 20 yrs older than america ferrara.
I think virtually everyone is in agreement with you that for cross racing STI's are superior from a performance standpoint.


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## pretender

argylesocks said:


> my point is, if you have the option for superior technology, why would you go back to stuff thats 20 years old?


Twenty whole years?!?!?


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## argylesocks

huh.. I think people are reading too much into my analogy.

my point was, if something better is available to you, why wouldnt you choose it?
(keeping in mind that this is a cyclo-cross forum where it is assumed you RACE cross)

that being said, if you have specific reasons why you want bar end shifters, then go for it.
to each their own.


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## pretender

argylesocks said:


> my point was, if something better is available to you, why wouldnt you choose it?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question


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## argylesocks

whatever. this is retarded. 

use the end shifters if you like them. dont use them if you dont like them.


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## singlering

I used them in 7 speed on a race bike when I couldn,t afford STI. They did not do well in racing conditions. Now gripshift and shimano inverse spring derrailleur just rules.


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## colinr

singlering said:


> I used them in 7 speed on a race bike when I couldn,t afford STI. They did not do well in racing conditions. Now gripshift and shimano inverse spring derrailleur just rules.


Do you seriously have gripshift on a cyclocross bike?


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## blackhat

colinr said:


> Do you seriously have gripshift on a cyclocross bike?


I have no idea if these are what he's running but they're gripshift and I used to use them on a cx bike. sort of hard to find now, and they're 7 or 8 only.
oops. pics too big. google sram cx-dt.


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## gewilli

argylesocks said:


> whatever. this is retarded.
> 
> use the end shifters if you like them. dont use them if you dont like them.


NO U R retarded :thumbsup:


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## Gripped

gewilli said:


> everyone should own a set of barcons... they freakin ROCK... (yes, mine are in a bag with a spare 9sp D/A rear Der... but if i ever get a second cross bike... i got something to bolt on real quick).


I've got a set in the spare parts bin ready and waiting for the day I need a backup ASAP and I don't have the $$$ for new STIs.


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