# Am I slow? I can't tell..



## 1100RS (Aug 8, 2009)

So, for the past 2 months, I have been averaging 100 miles a week, after 5 years of doing nothing. I am 43 and have lost 15 lbs in the process (236 to 220). Typically, I ride 25 or 40 mile rides, solo, measure the path and time on mapmyride.com, and recently have been averaging about 17mph for a moderately hilly 40 mile ride in the Delaware/Chester County area (about 2:20).

Years ago I had some discouraging group ride experiences in the DC area, so am not excited about doing group rides and getting dropped, not to mention the curious bad attitude of so many roadies (is it me or are triathlete riders much more friendly?). Yet I am curious if my pace is respectable or if I have along way to go before I can hold my own in a "B" group ride. Thoughts?


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## OldItalian (Feb 14, 2009)

Speed sounds respectable to me. 
As for the roadies with the bad attitude, dont let them get to you, there are very nice riders out there who have no attitude problems. Hang with them for a good time.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Roadies are a unique and variable group. The trick is finding a group that's about your pace and not too high strung. Your pace is respectable, just make sure you're holding your line and not getting in their way if they're passing you.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

1100RS said:


> So, for the past 2 months, I have been averaging 100 miles a week, after 5 years of doing nothing. I am 43 and have lost 15 lbs in the process (236 to 220). Typically, I ride 25 or 40 mile rides, solo, measure the path and time on mapmyride.com, and recently have been averaging about 17mph for a moderately hilly 40 mile ride in the Delaware/Chester County area (about 2:20).


I'd say you're doing great! Especially at 43 and (I'm guessing) overweight. And yeah, I've run into more roadies who seem like jerks than I expected. Tri guys seem to nicer for some reason and are more likely to say 'onyerleft' or tap you on the shoulder when coming up from behind. But I've also run into a couple a cool roadies too - usually older guys.


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## Guest (Aug 27, 2009)

Hang in there, you are doing well and there are roadies who are friendly.


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## 1100RS (Aug 8, 2009)

I appreciate the feedback. You never know the story of the anonymous rider who passes you, so you can quickly question how well you are riding. It FEELS like I am holding a good pace (obviously the hills are a challenge at 220lbs). Probably time to be more social and find that right group.

"High strung" may indeed what I had experienced. And yes, overweight, tho I am 6'2". If I get to 200, it will be a miracle.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

kytyree said:


> Hang in there, you are doing well and there are roadies who are friendly.


Roadies are friendly once you've ridden with them a few times and they've judged your skill level. Until then, they are wary. Would YOU want to be in a group/paceline with someone you don't know? You might take one or all of them out, if you aren't savvy. Ergo, many roadies are a little stand-offish until you've proven that you can ride in a pack, hold a line, take your rotation, etc.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

1100RS said:


> "High strung" may indeed what I had experienced. And yes, overweight, tho I am 6'2". If I get to 200, it will be a miracle.


6'2" and 200 lbs would be pretty good, especially with since you'd have more lean muscle mass. I'm 6' 245 lbs (down from 285). I expected to be in the 200-220 range by now, but a back spasm severely damaged my SIJ in 2007 and I lost almost the whole year rehabbing. And yeah, long climbs hurt - but it's good pain right!


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

Boy, I consider myself lucky since out of the handful of roadies I have met and ridden with, all but one has been great. The one that wasn't is just an short old fat little man that has issues and compensates by riding an expensive bike poorly and walking around with an elitist attitude. 

As far as how you are riding...all I can say is you are miles ahead of me. Good luck in finding a decent group you mesh with.


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## Ibashii (Oct 23, 2002)

PlatyPius said:


> Roadies are friendly once you've ridden with them a few times and they've judged your skill level. Until then, they are wary. Would YOU want to be in a group/paceline with someone you don't know? You might take one or all of them out, if you aren't savvy. Ergo, many roadies are a little stand-offish until you've proven that you can ride in a pack, hold a line, take your rotation, etc.


That's a fair comment and there certainly are a lot of nice folks in the roadie world, but too many riders take this justified wariness too far and wear it like a badge of honor, entering into every new biker relationship with a "how much can you bench?" attitude. It jumps out at me when I'm back in the US, because Euro riders are very rarely like this and I've gotten used to a more laid-back scene. Faster and harder and more humbling, but more laid back. There also seem to be less crashes in races/group rides here (just an obs., I don't have any stats to back that up).

Still, no matter where you are it's pretty easy to identify the groups and individuals who are like this, and simply not ride with them. Most bike groups have 2-3 different levels of group rides, with different sorts of etiquette about speed, dropping people, stopping/slowing to wait for people with mechanical troubles, etc.; if I were you I would start out with a group that has a 'no-drop' policy and that rides slow, preferably with 1-2 stronger riders who help keep the pack together and kindly inform noobs when they f up. Group rides are so great when you have the right group, it would be a shame to chuck this entire aspect of road riding just because of a few (ok, maybe a lot of) dinks that don't understand what the sport is all about.


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

Trust is earned in the road bike world.

You can't line up at the start of a group ride with your wooly legs and beginners bike and expect to be taken seriously by others. Eveyone knows you will be sketchy in the pack during the warm up portion until the first hill when you will be OTB. 

In the meantime we have put in years of training and built up the confidence and trust of the other riders. We have done this by riding/racing thousands of kilometers together. Sure their are occasionally accidents in the pack, but those are easier to deal with, barely, when you know those involved.

Arraogant roadie pricks are usually proud to wear that banner.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

You can't be slow, because _I'm_ slow and you're never at the meetings,,,

Sounds like a very respectable pace to me. Being the new outsider in any group always involves a period of adjustment. Don't be discouraged. Try the group rides again, get dropped, keep riding and you will get better. You may also find that there are some advantages to the group atmosphere that will help lift your pace.

As for the triathletes being nicer, I've never done a triathlon, but knowing that it would most likely kill me would make me nicer too. Who wants to die being a jerk?


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## gegarrenton (Jul 10, 2009)

PlatyPius said:


> Roadies are friendly once you've ridden with them a few times and they've judged your skill level. Until then, they are wary. Would YOU want to be in a group/paceline with someone you don't know? You might take one or all of them out, if you aren't savvy. Ergo, many roadies are a little stand-offish until you've proven that you can ride in a pack, hold a line, take your rotation, etc.


In other words, they're dicks. But there are nice guys and gals out there, you just need to look for them. And i would agree the tri riders are much more welcoming.


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## gegarrenton (Jul 10, 2009)

ewitz said:


> Arraogant roadie pricks are usually proud to wear that banner.


That is one of the lamest things I have ever heard.


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## Ibashii (Oct 23, 2002)

ewitz said:


> Trust is earned in the road bike world.
> 
> You can't line up at the start of a group ride with your wooly legs and beginners bike and expect to be taken seriously by others. Eveyone knows you will be sketchy in the pack during the warm up portion until the first hill when you will be OTB.
> 
> ...


you = much of what is wrong with road bike culture. Seriously.


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

ewitz said:


> Arraogant roadie pricks are usually proud to wear that banner.


That's sad. I understand more experienced roadies needing to get to know a new rider before full trust can be established but to just be arrogant because they have been riding a few years? That is just being a douche. When I used to lift weights I had people that were new that wanted to lift with me on occasion. They had a hard time pushing 135 pounds and there I was benching 400+. Did that give me the "right" to be arrogant and a prick? Well if it did I never took advantage of that right. Instead I tried to help the new guy out as much as I could with tips and tried to show them technique and other movements that would help in addition to benching/squatting/dead lifting. I don't know, I understand the standoffish attitude a little bit but not being an ass to a new guy. 

As far as being taken serious because you have a beginner bike and hairy legs....well...if I am going to be judged based on that then eff you. Don't tell me the first time you (those) folks came out the ride they had $5000 full carbon bikes with Dura Ace components and could maintain 20mph and ride a double on the toughest hills out there. They were like most of us (beginners). Cheap bikes, hairy legs, and no clue. I think just the fact I am on a bike and trying to ride should be enough to take me serious.


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## shanabit (Jul 16, 2007)

ewitz said:


> Trust is earned in the road bike world.
> 
> You can't line up at the start of a group ride with your wooly legs and beginners bike and expect to be taken seriously by others. Eveyone knows you will be sketchy in the pack during the warm up portion until the first hill when you will be OTB.
> 
> ...


Pompous???:thumbsup: :17:


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

Nubster said:


> That's sad. I understand more experienced roadies needing to get to know a new rider before full trust can be established but to just be arrogant because they have been riding a few years? That is just being a douche. When I used to lift weights I had people that were new that wanted to lift with me on occasion. They had a hard time pushing 135 pounds and there I was benching 400+. Did that give me the "right" to be arrogant and a prick? Well if it did I never took advantage of that right. Instead I tried to help the new guy out as much as I could with tips and tried to show them technique and other movements that would help in addition to benching/squatting/dead lifting. I don't know, I understand the standoffish attitude a little bit but not being an ass to a new guy.
> 
> As far as being taken serious because you have a beginner bike and hairy legs....well...if I am going to be judged based on that then eff you. Don't tell me the first time you (those) folks came out the ride they had $5000 full carbon bikes with Dura Ace components and could maintain 20mph and ride a double on the toughest hills out there. They were like most of us (beginners). Cheap bikes, hairy legs, and no clue. I think just the fact I am on a bike and trying to ride should be enough to take me serious.


Except when the dumb ass newb makes a stupid move in the gym he will only injure himself.

When I am riding in a paceline or pack the same newb has the capacity to injure me and break my ride. 

So yeah, we are pricks for a reason.


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

shanabit said:


> Pompous???:thumbsup: :17:


I think douche bag is more appropriate.


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

ewitz said:


> Except when the dumb ass newb makes a stupid move in the gym he will only injure himself.
> 
> When I am riding in a paceline or pack the same newb has the capacity to injure me and break my ride.
> 
> So yeah, we are pricks for a reason.


No your a prick because your a prick. Because you are making up for the fact that you have nothing showing when you wear your lycra. Because your a douche bag. The ENTIRE reason I would help someone in the gym is so they DON'T hurt thenself or someone else. Someday they will grow and get stronger and get to my level and guess what, now I have a new friend and someone that I can lift with. Same with biking. Don't want the new guy to crash and hurt someone or cause a crash? Then teach him, don't ridicule or ostracize them or keep them in line with your douche bag attitude. Make a new friend and new biking partner in the future and maybe you won't have to be such a dick cause someone will actually have a little respect for you.


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

Nubster said:


> I think douche bag is more appropriate.


Better than jitbag.


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

ewitz said:


> Better than jitbag.


You would know.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Please note that I only gave a reason...I myself am not a "roadie", nor do I ride in a paceline very often. I am, however, a prick.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ewitz said:


> Except when the dumb ass newb makes a stupid move in the gym he will only injure himself.
> 
> When I am riding in a paceline or pack the same newb has the capacity to injure me and break my ride.
> 
> So yeah, we are pricks for a reason.


You're missing the point. If you're willing to work with (and TEACH) the 'dumb ass newb', he'll be less likely to injure himself and others. Ironically, arrogance doesn't allow people that perspective.


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

The point is, if there is a new guy in the group actually talk to them, find out what their experience level is, what their fitness level is, what they are expecting out of the ride. If they are in fact completely new then tell them nicely what to expect, how to act during the ride, what the proper techniques and etiquette is. That way you help PREVENT something from happening. Do you think being an ******* is going to prevent anything? The guy is going to still be riding. But he will be riding not knowing anymore then he did at the beginning of the ride. During the ride double up with him. Talk to him. Make sure he knows what's up and watch him a little to make sure he isn't screwing up. It only take a couple minutes to be cool to the guy and help him and show/earn some respect.


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

PlatyPius said:


> Please note that I only gave a reason...I myself am not a "roadie", nor do I ride in a paceline very often. I am, however, a prick.


No, what you said was different. In your statement you said that "Ergo, many roadies are a little stand-offish until you've proven that you can ride in a pack". That is a big difference than saying that it is ok to be an ass to someone because you are an experienced rider and the new person in the group has little/no experience. I understand the stand-offishness and I would expect it. Out of respect for the group I would not even ride within the group but hang out on the back of the pack. Not that I have much choice cause I usually can't keep up but even if I could I wouldn't try to ride up front or in the middle until I have proven myself and/or learned how the group dynamic works. I just don't understand the need to be arrogant and a prick. I know how I feel when I run in to people like that and I would hate to make someone else feel like that. Besides the fact you stand a good chance of getting your face smashed in if you treat the wrong person like that. Not me, but there are plenty of people out there that don't take too kindly to being treated like dirt.

And when I say "you", I am not referring to you PlatyPius. Just using the term generically or to refer to someone like ewitz.


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## gegarrenton (Jul 10, 2009)

Ibashii said:


> you = much of what is wrong with road bike culture. Seriously.


+1 

seriously...


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## Guest (Aug 27, 2009)

PJ352 said:


> You're missing the point. If you're willing to work with (and TEACH) the 'dumb ass newb', he'll be less likely to injure himself and others. Ironically, arrogance doesn't allow people that perspective.


:thumbsup: 


And yes it pains me to agree with you.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

Wow, this got pretty testy! I'm just talking about guys I run into out on the road - I see at least one other rider each time I go out. I've seen some arrogant stuff like being cut off another rider at an intersection (WTF is up with that). I've also ran into a cool guy who came up and road next to me chatting for a while (I was bummed when I had to turn off).


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## westekBike (Aug 10, 2009)

PJ352 said:


> You're missing the point. If you're willing to work with (and TEACH) the 'dumb ass newb', he'll be less likely to injure himself and others. Ironically, arrogance doesn't allow people that perspective.


ewitz,

Hopefully you get this and have more to offer than "Stay the F out of my way" and "Don't take offense when I am an asshat to you". Otherwise, WTF are you doing in this forum anyway?

-Wooly Legs


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## JustTooBig (Aug 11, 2005)

ewitz said:


> Trust is earned in the road bike world.
> 
> You can't line up at the start of a group ride with your wooly legs and beginners bike and expect to be taken seriously by others. Eveyone knows you will be sketchy in the pack during the warm up portion until the first hill when you will be OTB.
> 
> ...


An extrordinary example of ...... well, sorry to say the correct word to use here is "ignorance".

I know SEVERAL guys who are extremely talented and have many more years of experience than you do (now, if you have 30+ yrs of experience and have completed the RAAM multiple times, I will happily retract that last part), but who don't embrace some elements of the "roadie code". They frequently show up with their hairy legs and [email protected] beater bikes and spank the Cat2's at the group rides. Their knowledge and pack-riding skills are second to none. They have a lot of wisdom and experience to share despite their APPEARANCE as noobs.

TRULY capabale cyclists don't feel the need to be ultra-suspicious and vigilant about new riders in the group -- they are confident in their ability to deal with another rider who may be incapable of holding a good line ... or doesn't know the 'rules of the road'.. or who may do something unwise in a paceline. The experienced cyclist may need to be a bit more cautious, but to be unduly wary simply points out one's own insecurities and inabilities.

Your narrow view of the situation does not reflect as well on the "true roadies" as you appear to believe (to ME, anyway).

Many (but not ALL) roadie arrogant roadie pricks are simply that... just pricks.


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## 1100RS (Aug 8, 2009)

Wow. Well, look, I just wanted to see how I was doing pace-wise relative to the letters I hear (A, B, C). At my age, I don't take anyone's attitude too seriously. The guy huffing and puffing about not getting hurt at the hands of some newb -- heck, I am juts not gonna be anywhere near someone like that. Life is too short. Seems like some sort of weird chip on the shoulder posturing -- could he really be that obsessed with crashing? 

On a side note, just did a 25 mile ride pretty much as hard as I could and averaged 19.2 miles per hour. Not bad without drafting, right? So back to my original question: should I be aiming at one of those B group rides or am I C still?


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## 1100RS (Aug 8, 2009)

Oh yeah, and why does someone else care if I shave my legs or not? Does that mean if I shaved my legs, I can get into the club? Is that the secret handshake?


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

1100RS said:


> On a side note, just did a 25 mile ride pretty much as hard as I could and averaged 19.2 miles per hour. Not bad without drafting, right? So back to my original question: should I be aiming at one of those B group rides or am I C still?


Have you checked for nightly rides at your local LBS. Usually offered a couple nights a week, more at larger stores. I've heard they are often more flexible. That's the next step for me (maybe next year).


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

1100RS said:


> Oh yeah, and why does someone else care if I shave my legs or not? Does that mean if I shaved my legs, I can get into the club? Is that the secret handshake?


You have to shave your legs, wear pro kit, and laugh and point at the newb with the $800 bike to be in the club.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

1100RS said:


> Oh yeah, and why does someone else care if I shave my legs or not? Does that mean if I shaved my legs, I can get into the club? Is that the secret handshake?


Man, I would hope not. I'd only shave my legs if I were a weekend warrior (weekend crits).


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## 1100RS (Aug 8, 2009)

Nubster said:


> You have to shave your legs, wear pro kit, and laugh and point at the newb with the $800 bike to be in the club.


lol. well their club is safe from me..


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## ROAD&DIRT (Mar 27, 2009)

What a sad world we live in


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## ROAD&DIRT (Mar 27, 2009)

I ride a low budget entry level bike, don't shave my legs but still take all my riding very seriously as those who spend thousand of $$$'s... Do they laugh at me, i danno... who cares.

My goal is not to be like the other guy, just to be the best that I can, and the only way I know how that works is too continue riding and hanging around the riders that are more experienced and ask lots of questions too... isn't that the way you learned the things you know to get where your are today?


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

Average speed isn't really an indicator of actually speed compared to other people. Factors like hills, wind, open roads, road condition etc.. play a factor. I can average 17.5 mph around here.. it's moderately hilly but very windy. Holding 23mph with a tail wind to turn around and go 13mpg with a head wind sucks. So unless you can base your speed on other people in the area you can't know for sure. Regardless.. 17mph is a very respectable speed.

Don't worry about other cyclists.. There are great ones and total jerks out there.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

Cycling is a mirocosm of the world. Some people are willing to be teachers and some are just asshats.

It sounds like you are doing just fine. As others have said, the key is to find a group of similar ability. That will get you comfortable riding in a group. When I started I found charity rides were good in that they naturally break down by speed as the fast guys tool away and the slow guys fall back.

When you find the right group it is good to find one that is a little better than you. It forces you to improve.

This sport is many things to many people. For some it's shaving the legs and working to get the category promotion. For others it's simply a mode of transportation. There is a varied spectrum in between. Keep looking, you will find people at the same point of the sprectrum as yourself.


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## hrumpole (Jun 17, 2008)

Earlier this week, i went out to Hains Point in DC to see if I could hang. I saw those guys for twelve seconds. Then they were gone. Intervals, table for one.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Dear ewitz,
Lighten up, Francis!


Rather than wave your prick banner, TEACH, don't just preach. BTW, even in the A rides, there are occasional mistakes. If you know a particular rider is prone to make mistakes, you learn how to avoid them and work around them. 

All riders need to learn the rules of the road and how to ride more efficiently. Nobody can learn this without guidance.


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## GammaDriver (Jul 6, 2007)

I agree with finding a group, but there's a little more to it than just _hoping_ you and that 'right' group pass by each other some day. 

Based on what I've found in the Fort Lauderdale area, it takes networking - and by that, I mean asking road-oriented bicycle shop employees, and other riders, questions about where and when certain rides start at, and their opinion of the average speed of each meeting area / time. Of course the speed thing is usually subjective, but... at least it helps.

Down here we have one group that meets early on Sundays that maintans they want a strict adherence to 19 MPH (which is slower for flat Florida, but not too slow). Friendly people, they are, but I always screw up and speed up when I am in the lead 'cause I prefer to not ride with a computer. (I have ridden that way for about nine years now after using them, constantly, for training for races. But... I just ordered one a few days ago.) 

network, network, network, and you will most likely find the group that works for you if you live near a major metropolitan area.


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## 1100RS (Aug 8, 2009)

GammaDriver said:


> I agree with finding a group, but there's a little more to it than just _hoping_ you and that 'right' group pass by each other some day.
> 
> network, network, network, and you will most likely find the group that works for you if you live near a major metropolitan area.



good advice. thanks for the input


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

ewitz, where did you go? There's a line of people behind me waiting to slap you around (literarily, of course)


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

I'd say you're doing *very good* with your pace of riding. 

General rule-of-thumb for determining what group ride to go on: If you're not sure what level group ride to go on, go one level _easier_ than where you think you currently are.


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## BlueGrassBlazer (Aug 4, 2009)

My mom plays bridge...guess what? They've got arrogant pricks there too. If you're a prick, you're a prick. You're just waiting for some differentiating factor so you can hold yourself aloof whether it's stamp collecting or bike riding. 
We've got 'em here too but most riders around here are generally easy to deal with.
To the OP, I'd say your pace is pretty good. Much better than mine.


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## RoadHazard (Sep 4, 2009)

Congrats on the weight loss. 

I ride a hybrid in San Francisco (hills) and average about 17mph over a shorter distance (eg, 10 miles). However, roadies rarely pass me up. 17mph seems very respectable at this point. Don't know if that helps.


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## dmar836 (Nov 17, 2007)

You're doing great. Most cycling time, even if on a team, is spent alone. Look up your local weekend rec rides and try to find the "leader" when you show up. Tell them it's your first in a while. The local ride I started with had those that finished at 26mph avg and those that finished at 16mph avg. Keep at it and you will find a few that will give you the tips to ride a wheel.
Pros get dropped all the time - depends on the day/conditions. Amateurs fight tooth and nail to keep ahead of you - sometimes with the attitude and other times physically out of pride. There are always those faster and slower than you. You are already on pace with most rec riders.
Little big man syndrome is everywhere - not just cycling but every hobby, every profession, and especially on the roads(cars/SUVs/trucks, etc). People are very passive aggressive in our society.
And yes triathletes are a unique community - their enthusiasm and welcoming attitude is evangelistic at times.
JMO,
Dave
KC


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## ionlylooklazy (Aug 26, 2009)

I just started cycling, going from couch to bike I averaged 12.2 on my second ride (13 miles), so you're doing a hell of a lot better than me! Although I'm not ready to start pushing myself yet, just trying to increase my poor base at this point, so I'm just trying to get out for long leisurely rides.

Although I'm sure if I shaved my legs Id get at least 5 mph faster 
I did shave my legs once for a big swim meet.


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## hrumpole (Jun 17, 2008)

I shaved 'em for an upcoming triathlon. It felt weird at first, but now I don't care. It's added 100 mph to my average speed and 3 min to my average shower. ;-)


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## Nubster (Jul 8, 2009)

I used to shave my legs when I lifted weights. I kinda liked it but what a PITA. I shaved my arms too.


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## EverydayRide (Sep 12, 2008)

1100RS said:


> So, for the past 2 months, I have been averaging 100 miles a week, after 5 years of doing nothing.
> 
> recently have been averaging about 17mph for a moderately hilly 40 mile ride in the Delaware/Chester County area (about 2:20).


Actually know that area well. You're doing a great job. After 7-8 years off the bike, May 2007 got back into it. Dropped down to presently 185 lbs from 235. Got another 10 lbs to go. Not bad for 16 months riding? I'll never be 155 again - and I'm 6' tall and your age -[older mid 40]




1100RS said:


> Years ago I had some discouraging group ride experiences in the DC area, so am not excited about doing group rides and getting dropped, not to mention the curious bad attitude of so many roadies (is it me or are triathlete riders much more friendly?). Yet I am curious if my pace is respectable or if I have along way to go before I can hold my own in a "B" group ride. Thoughts?


I can't comment on "other" riders. You shouldn't either. There's some great advice here within the thread. Reread it every so often. It's humbling.

Earlier this year I rode a few groups rides. I've lost that "appeal" to see riders working against each other when there's plenty of opportunity to learn tactics. I've read it all over these boards here too. My favourites are the sprinters who hang back and attack at the top of rolling hills. Pisses everyone off. What's wrong with meeting up with those guys prior to a ride and saying, "You guys have great leg speed, we're going to do groups and this is the game plan on lead outs ....." 

If they're capable of being wheeled up to a high speed and let loose ...then it's going to be good for the over all group to learn complicity and group efforts. You can never tell if that kid who whizzes by you at the crown is having that single moment in his life where he feels complete control over an outcome ...to win. That's a dynamic. As a group you can all profit on mutual efforts through good communication and some mutual leadership.

Sprinting. If there's one thing that pisses off a crowd are sprinters. 

You hang in there.

p.s I've got a BoxerCup.:thumbsup:


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## GammaDriver (Jul 6, 2007)

EverydayRide said:


> My favourites are the sprinters who hang back and attack at the top of rolling hills. Pisses everyone off.


Comical post. I've never seen riders do this (I mean riders who refused to pull the group, but then sprinted up hills ... but even for the groups I've ridden with who share leads, the long hills of Pennsylvania can, and do, become "every man for himself" struggles).

Yeah, though, guys who held back from doing their share for solely hitting the hills and passing the group up would find me shortly thereafter finding a new group to ride with.


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## EverydayRide (Sep 12, 2008)

GammaDriver said:


> Comical post. I've never seen riders do this (I mean riders who refused to pull the group, but then sprinted up hills ... but even for the groups I've ridden with who share leads, the long hills of Pennsylvania can, and do, become "every man for himself" struggles.
> 
> Yeah, though, guys who held back from doing their share for solely hitting the hills and passing the group up would find me shortly thereafter finding a new group to ride with.


Look for yourself, here just recently posted today. I read about it all over the boards.

The main reason these types of club rides happen are due to a mixing of different levels -I would presume. You have riders who are capable of hanging onto a group but have an excellent leg speed for sprinting. Then you have those who hammer and pull everyone along for their photo finish, all fit and trim. They get disappointed over a sprinter capable of a "snap" and more leg speed for that inch or two in victory lane. Sprinter use the hammers as prey.


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## RoadHazard (Sep 4, 2009)

1100RS said:


> If I get to 200, it will be a miracle.


You will get to any weight you want, if you have a plan. It sounds like you have a good plan.


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## EverydayRide (Sep 12, 2008)

RoadHazard said:


> You will get to any weight you want, if you have a plan. It sounds like you have a good plan.


Agreed.


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