# Old La Honda Rd Request for Everyone's Safety



## bikerbert (Jan 28, 2005)

I went up OLH this morning, and on the way down my heart rate was almost as high as it was on the way up. The reason being is because I almost hit four people who were on the way up with their heads down. 

They had drifted over to my side of the road with absolutely no idea they had until they almost got hit. I'm talking they were a few feet from the side of the road. There were also riders fanned out across the road 3-4 people wide. And I'm talking going around corners, not on the straights.

A few of these people were also nice enough to give ME the dirty look like I was the one who was riding on the wrong side of the road.  A "WTF" moment if ever there was one! I should have known better than to ride OLH on the 4th of July knowing there would be a wide range of riders on the hill, but it was such a great morning it would have been a shame not to.

OLH is a great climb, and EVERYONE should do it. But the descent can be extremely dangerous when you are going 25+ MPH downhill and have to swerve to avoid hitting a fried rider with their head down, who is drifting all over the road because they bit off more than they can chew at the bottom. 

Now before I get flamed for being some kind of snobby jerk, I am NOT saying only uber fit riders should be allowed to go up, and all others should stick to city streets.

I write this post only because it is extremely dangerous to ride up that road with your head down, and to not mind your surroundings. It is a road you need to stay sharp on all the way up to keep out of harms way and get the most enjoyment out of the ride.

A cyclist will most likely survive a collision with another rider, but if you throw a car into the mix, the odds go down exponentially.


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## MayGirl (May 12, 2006)

I totally agree about (all levels of) riders riding many-abreast and grinding themselves so cross-eyed or head-downed that they endanger themselves and others on OLH. OLH is a perfect example of it at its worst. That said, OLH is a crap descent -- even without all the inattentive or inconsiderate climbers. Which is why I never bother going down it -- not with much better options like 84 or Kings so close by.


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## bikerbert (Jan 28, 2005)

I hear that a lot about the descent. I love going down OLH, always have. I got down in 7 mins one time with slicks on my mountain bike. That was pretty fun!


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## CoLiKe20 (Jan 30, 2006)

really? I never had problem going down. I guess b/c I'm a really slow descender.


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## thesupervisor (Jan 29, 2007)

well its kind of common cycling knowledge that certain routes are mainly for climbing and then once up the climb you take another route that most cyclists decend on. 
its kind of unwritten bicycle map with a bunch of one ways. there are climbing hills and decent routes. alot of " Uber Fit " riders use those routes for training and when they hit there max burn sometimes even there chins get tucked into there stomachs. its training we ride till we faint. if you decend on those known climbing routes, decend at a controled pace,, knowing you are going to run into riders that are all over the road.


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## johnny99 (Apr 2, 2004)

Riding down OLH at 25mph is reckless. Even the car drivers don't go that fast, especially around the corners. This road is less than 2 lanes wide in many places and in those conditions, by law, the uphill vehicle has the right of way. Yes, uphill cyclists should ride single file and within a few feet of the right side of the road, but I would not ride down that road at 25mph any day of the year. What are you going to do if you go around a corner at 25mph and a delivery truck is coming up the other way?? The truck can easily be taking up the whole width of the road.


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## mike6108 (Jun 12, 2004)

johnny99 said:


> Riding down OLH at 25mph is reckless.


I agree. I rarely descend OLH and when I do, I usually hit somewhere's around 15 mph max.



bikerbert said:


> ...who is drifting all over the road because they bit off more than they can chew at the bottom.


While you claim not to be an elitist, this statement sure seems to be to the contrary. Fact is, lots of riders struggle along OLH, myself included. Now that I'm in better fitness, I struggle less, but it's still a grind to get to the top. For the average rider who wants to venture up OLH for the first time, given that it is the benchmark climb of the Peninsula, they may indeed be "biting off more than they can chew." But they've got to start somewhere, don't they? 

FWIW, I agree with most of the remainder of the OP's comments about being alert and staying to the RHS of the road when climbing.


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## SF_Ned (Jul 5, 2007)

*I prefer descending Rte 84*

I was one of those reckless ones regularly hitting 40mph descending OLH. I had a near crash  about 4 mos ago and that scared me straight! Well not really, now I descend using Rte 84 after climbing OLH or Kings Mtn Road. 

I do agree with the points that with high speed comes higher risk but it's a rush and folks should still climb single file and stay to the right.


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## johnny99 (Apr 2, 2004)

SF_Ned said:


> I do agree with the points that with high speed comes higher risk but it's a rush and folks should still climb single file and stay to the right.


There's a big difference between risking yourself on a wide road and risking other people on a narrow road with lots of blind corners. Remember that this is a residential road and there is uphill traffic other than bicycles.


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## MayGirl (May 12, 2006)

Even w/o all the riders climbing it, the narrow road, many driveways (including horse farms and, consequently, horse-trailers traveling on the road), and myriad blind turns just make this road much more conducive to climbing rather than descending. You get a longer (prolong the rush!), arguably more technically challenging, and safer (less driveways and the associated backing up/turning/etc traffic) descent on King's. 
I agree that it's been known (albeit tacitly) around the various teams I ride with that OLH is for going up, not down. 
And, while I'm all for the rush of a great descent, going down OLH at 25 mph does seem as equally selfishly reckless as the nitwits climbing it many-abreast and not paying attention to their bad lines/surroundings/other riders/whatnot.


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## genejockey (Apr 11, 2007)

There are a couple places on the climb (the two REALLY BAD righthand switchbacks) where I intentionally go to the lefthand side of the road, to avoid grinding to a halt. BUT I look and listen first, and watch the road ahead like a hawk to make sure nobody's going to crash into me.

The only time I ever descended on OLH was earlier this year, when for some reason (overheating?) I just completely cracked halfway up. WEST OLH, OTOH, is a nice descent.


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## balzaccom (Oct 11, 2006)

"BUT I look and listen first, and watch the road ahead like a hawk to make sure nobody's going to crash into me."

I think this is pretty standard technique for cyclists...but of course, we can only hear motor vehicles--we can't hear cyclists. One of the scariest things that has ever happened to me on a bike was coming around a corner on a downhill and seeing four PEDESTRIANS walking along the road...who could not hear me coming. 

Listening for traffic ain't all it's cracked up to be...

PW


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## rensho (Aug 5, 2003)

Please don't ride down OLH. Go over to 84 and ride down.

I agree with your statements, that riders should not ride 4 abreast, and hog the roads. OLH is just too skinny for 2 way bike traffic.
We can hear cars coming down. We have a really hard time hearing a silent bike around a blind corner.


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## genejockey (Apr 11, 2007)

balzaccom said:


> I think this is pretty standard technique for cyclists...but of course, we can only hear motor vehicles--we can't hear cyclists.
> 
> PW


Not to quibble, but a descending bike is anything but silent, and when you're climbing the only other sound is your own breathing.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

rensho said:


> Please don't ride down OLH. Go over to 84 and ride down.
> 
> I agree with your statements, that riders should not ride 4 abreast, and hog the roads. OLH is just too skinny for 2 way bike traffic.
> We can hear cars coming down. We have a really hard time hearing a silent bike around a blind corner.


Almost all of us are rec riders on open roads, so why so few people have bells is amazing to me. They make bells less than an inch across, and bar end bells, so if you're image conscious you don't have to have a 4 inch grinning lady bug ruining the look of your carbon dream machine, though if I ever get a Madone or Tarmac I'm putting one of those farting sumo wrestlers dead center on my handlebars. Bells aren't the be all/end all, though. On MUT trails around here a fair number of pedestrians walking on the wrong side of the trail hear the bell, then stop and look everywhere but behind them to see what could be making that sound- ice cream truck? Doorbell? Hmmm? 

And Johnny99, the uphill vehicle has the right of way- when two vehicles can't pass safely side to side. It would be hard to argue that two bikes can't safely pass on OLH, one up, one down, though you may have been talking about a truck coming up. A bike has no business across the centerline on an open road- not because you want to talk to your friend, not because you want to cut the apex like Michael Rogers.


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## johnny99 (Apr 2, 2004)

California L33 said:


> And Johnny99, the uphill vehicle has the right of way- when two vehicles can't pass safely side to side. It would be hard to argue that two bikes can't safely pass on OLH, one up, one down, though you may have been talking about a truck coming up. A bike has no business across the centerline on an open road- not because you want to talk to your friend, not because you want to cut the apex like Michael Rogers.


When descending OLH, you must be prepared to meet uphill traffic other than bicycles (e.g., delivery trucks). And remember that OLH does not have a center line in many places, so you need to be much more careful than on roads like Page Mill Rd. or Woodside Rd. Sometimes an uphill delivery truck will take up almost the entire width of the road.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

bikerbert said:


> I went up OLH this morning, and on the way down my heart rate was almost as high as it was on the way up. The reason being is because I almost hit four people who were on the way up with their heads down.
> 
> They had drifted over to my side of the road with absolutely no idea they had until they almost got hit. I'm talking they were a few feet from the side of the road. There were also riders fanned out across the road 3-4 people wide. And I'm talking going around corners, not on the straights.
> 
> ...


It's considered bad etiquette to go DOWN OLH during weekends or when it is busy. Go up OLH and down 84.


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## Squidward (Dec 18, 2005)

Yes, I'm not in all that good shape compared to most of you folks. I've made five attempts at riding up OLH so far and I have ridden down it twice. In both cases it was because I just found that I couldn't take it anymore and the only choice was to go back down the way we came. The three times I did make it all the way to the top we rode northbound on Skyline until we reached 84 and took that back to Portola to Mountain Home back to Canada Road. The last time we rode this it was amazing as we had absolutely no cars pass us going in the same direction as we were from the bridge at the bottom of OLH to almost Robert's Market. We did get passed by two motorcycles, though, but that is nowhere as bad as having a car follow you to try to pass where you are riding as close to the shoulder as you can and still aren't leaving enough room for a car to safely pass.


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## jasonwells4 (Aug 7, 2006)

Alright, I'm in the east bay... Just how steep is OLH?


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## CoLiKe20 (Jan 30, 2006)

jason, OLH is a good climb. Put the bike on the back of your S2000. I'll ride with you this Sunday.
either that or I'm heading off to Eastbay to climb Mt. Diablo.


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## MayGirl (May 12, 2006)

jasonwells4 said:


> Alright, I'm in the east bay... Just how steep is OLH?


It's not the steepest you'll find but it is quite challenging -- i'm pretty sure if you search old threads you'll find the specs. 
What matters for this discussion is that it's very narrow and has quite a few blind turns that make for poor visibility especially when descending. And because of the nature of the climb (coupled with the above) it is irresponsible for people to ride many abreast while going up it, especially those who need to zig-zag up it.

Best time to climb OLH: 10:30am on a weekday. Quiet and beautiful suffering.


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## rensho (Aug 5, 2003)

OLH is ~3.3mi and ~1300ft climb.

Average about 8%, with some corners that are ~15%.

Nice climb if you're a local due to shade and lack of cars.


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## Squidward (Dec 18, 2005)

rensho said:


> OLH is ~3.3mi and ~1300ft climb.
> 
> Average about 8%, with some corners that are ~15%.
> 
> Nice climb if you're a local due to shade and lack of cars.


The thing is that the climb does not let up. Once you start climbing the grade does not drop to zero (level) again until the top.

Here is a screenshot of the second-to-last time I rode up OLH as recorded by my Garmin Edge 305 (not the most accurate in terms of elevation but better than nothing). The red dot is the beginning of the climb (at the 10-mile mark on the lower graph) and the green highlighted dot is the stopsign (the crosshairs on the lower graph). We turned right on to Skyline at the top, which was a little bit of a climb but not much as shown in the screenshot. The gold color line shows the grade as the Garmin recorded our progress. If you look closely at the elevation graph you will see three divots, those were when we stopped along the way (my buddy was having an off day and needed to stop a few times).


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## johnny99 (Apr 2, 2004)

rensho said:


> OLH is ~3.3mi and ~1300ft climb.
> 
> Average about 8%, with some corners that are ~15%.
> 
> Nice climb if you're a local due to shade and lack of cars.


According to this web site, OLH has an average grade of 7.2%:
http://www-graphics.stanford.edu/~lucasp/grade/oldlahonda.html

I think it is actually one of the easiest climbs from Silicon Valley up to Skyline. The grade is moderate, the road is shaded and cool during the summer, and it has little traffic. Yes, the road is very narrow at times, so stay well to the right, especially when descending.

Also, if you decide to take a rest break at the top of the climb, don't stop in the middle of the road and block traffic! Groups of bicyclists often do that and the local residents really hate having to weave around the road blocks to get to their homes. If you can't find room on the dirt shoulder to stop, then cross the street where there is more room.


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## genejockey (Apr 11, 2007)

I thought OLH was really hard, till I did Kings Mountain.

I thought Kings Mountain was tough, till I did Page Mill.

Page Mill's about as tough as I'm willing to do, so far - but that could be because I always seem to choose hot days to climb it, and there's not a lot of shade.


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## bikerbert (Jan 28, 2005)

I ride MTB's as well, so going down tight and twisty doesn't bother me (unless it is the Tunitas creek bone crusher). As far as it being a "One Way" street, I must respectfully disagree. The club/people I ride with racer, and I have never heard an etiquette comment about going down instead of on to 84.

I am typically on the way down around 10am during the week, so there is zero traffic except for the two wheeled folks coming up. You see the occasional service vehicle, but they are usually in the same place that I passed them at on the way up.

The only reason I decend OLH is to save time to go back to work. On the 4th, I was supposed to climb it 2x for a training ride, and is the only reason I went back down.


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## spingineer (Jul 20, 2007)

So what did you think about Tunitas Creek, and then West Alpine Road? I would put Tunitas Creek, West Alpine Road, and Page Mill Road at about the same level ... with one exception ... Tunitas Creek at least has a shade ... West Alpine has less, and Page Mill has none!


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## genejockey (Apr 11, 2007)

spingineer said:


> So what did you think about Tunitas Creek, and then West Alpine Road? I would put Tunitas Creek, West Alpine Road, and Page Mill Road at about the same level ... with one exception ... Tunitas Creek at least has a shade ... West Alpine has less, and Page Mill has none!


I don't know if it's me you're talking to, but IMO Page Mill is much tougher than Tunitas Creek. Every time I've gone up Page Mill, I've found myself thinking, "If there's shade around that next corner, I'm gonna stop and rest." Of course there never is, and by the third time I went up it, I realized I was thinking it at exactly the same spot!  

Tunitas Creek has that beastly middle section, but the first and last few miles are really easy. I've only done it 3 times, but I've never been tempted to stop. AND it's cool. I think my biggest problem climbing is heat. A few months ago, I went up OLH and had to stop halfway - I just felt nauseous, lightheaded and weak. The next week, I went past that same point a minute faster and got to the top with no problem - and my HR was about 10 bpm lower.

I've never been up West Alpine. I went down it ONCE. Never again. Like riding a jackhammer while trying to stay on the road. About as enjoyable as a root canal.


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## kev1n (Jan 17, 2006)

I descended OLH once, after cramping at the top and realizing that I still had to climb Joaquin to get home and needed to get back in as few miles as possible. I had a close call with a biker and a car coming up, and will never do it again. Sure, you *should* be able to do that descent without problems, but I'll play it safe and just add the <10 minutes riding 84 down.


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*crappy roads*

I was in San Jose for a few days last week, and one day rode from there over to the coast and up to Half Moon, then Highway 92 up to Skyline, and back. That was one spooky bike ride.

Man, the roads totally suck over there. Old La Honda is a bike path, at best. In fact, I think I've seen many bike paths that were wider. That one, you have to share with cars, too. I would not descend it quickly.

But, that was not near as scary as 92 out of Half Moon. There were about 6 miles of the freakiest riding in my life, and I've gone 64 mph in the dark! One of the busiest 2 lane roads in the country, including big rigs, all too impatient, and zero shoulder. I didn't know the area, so I figured leaving Half Moon that this couldn't go on long, but it did. I was glad to get up the hill to Skyline, but even it was a bit scary, with all those citified yuppies playing race car driver in their BMW's. 

Highway 1 was ok, thankfully, but just about everywhere else was completely unsuitable for bike riding. I am so appreciative of the nice roads and bike lanes were have around here in Fresno.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Only fools and people from out of town  ride Hwy 92. I've ridden it twice, and only the short part from Skyline to Hwy 280. There are plenty of people here who could have given you much better routes and much better roads. I've ridden your roads, and I didn't think they were all that different from ours.

There are a lot of old lumber roads in the Santa Cruz Mountains that someone paved at some point, and that's why we have small roads like Old La Honda. There's a road called Tunitas Creek that is commonly used by cyclists, and it's what you should have taken instead of Hwy 92. It has awful pavement in places, and it's not much wider than Old La Honda, but those features keep car traffic away. Nobody I know has ever descended it because of the pavement, but it's great to ride up.

California roads in general suck. I've been going to Oregon a lot, and any road there is better than most California roads. Considering all the weather they get, that's quite a feat.


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## johnny99 (Apr 2, 2004)

Fixed said:


> Highway 1 was ok, thankfully, but just about everywhere else was completely unsuitable for bike riding. I am so appreciative of the nice roads and bike lanes were have around here in Fresno.


You just chose a poor route. Page Mill Road is a much nicer descent from Skyline than Old La Honda. Tunitas Creek Road is a much nicer climb than Hwy 92.

Did you take Skyline back to San Jose? That's a nice road, especially on weekdays when there are fewer motorcycles.


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## genejockey (Apr 11, 2007)

84 isn't too bad a descent from Skyline either. It's wide, relatively smooth, there's lots of warning for the REALLY tight turns, and there are places to pull off and let cars pass - though most good descenders (which I am not) can go down it faster than most cars. And coming from the coast, it's not a bad climb up to Skyline.

92 sucks even if you're in a car, let alone on a bike.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

Fixed said:


> I was in San Jose for a few days last week, and one day rode from there over to the coast and up to Half Moon, then Highway 92 up to Skyline, and back. That was one spooky bike ride.
> 
> Man, the roads totally suck over there. Old La Honda is a bike path, at best. In fact, I think I've seen many bike paths that were wider. That one, you have to share with cars, too. I would not descend it quickly.
> 
> ...


I've got relatives in Half Moon Bay and I have to _drive_ 92 to get there regularly. You couldn't pay me to ride 92 from HMB to Skyline. Actually, I've never seen a bike there. You see plenty on Highway 1, and plenty on Skyline. I don't know if the locals have some trick for getting between the two without using 92. Any locals care to tell us?


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

> I don't know if it's me you're talking to, but IMO Page Mill is much tougher than Tunitas Creek. Every time I've gone up Page Mill, I've found myself thinking, "If there's shade around that next corner, I'm gonna stop and rest." Of course there never is, and by the third time I went up it, I realized I was thinking it at exactly the same spot!


 Same here. I've done Tunitas Creek a number of times, but only on Page Mill have I had to stop because of exhaustion and wished I had a triple. During my Tunitas climbs I'm usually just wishing I had a 34 instead of a 36.


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## genejockey (Apr 11, 2007)

5 years ago, I could do Tunitas Creek with a 39x25. Now I need the 34x25 - luckily, I got one!


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