# Alchemy "like" hubs on the cheap



## mgurtzweiler (Jul 11, 2010)

Any Taiwanese or Ebay hubs that are close to Alchemy's design?


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

Nope.

What are you looking to get from a hub? That might help narrow it down more. If you want stiffness, get a stiff rim, it'll make worlds more difference than flange spacing.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

TomH has a point. Just because something looks like an Alchemy doesn't mean it is going to be a good purchase. The reason Alchemys are a stand out choice for alot of riders is not only because of their flange spacing, but also because of the machining consistency and outstanding service. They are a simplistic hub which sounds great, but when taken to Taiwan can mean some serious issues if done incorrectly or inconsistently.


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## Waves77 (Aug 15, 2010)

+1. Just got an Alchemy laced wheelset, amazing hubs!


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

mgurtzweiler said:


> Any Taiwanese or Ebay hubs that are close to Alchemy's design?


They haven't got around to copying it yet.


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## Waves77 (Aug 15, 2010)

BTW, the Alchemy ELF is lighter than the Taiwanese light front hub I have laying around. I'm sure the ORC rear is a bit heavier, but that's really comparing apples to oranges...


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## YishunBike Stefano (Oct 11, 2010)

It's very strange. 
I have never tried an Alchemy hub, but tried some different products...
In every forum i read there are different hub that are considered the best.
If you search in an Italian forum they speak very well about Spada Hubs, if you search in a german forum there is another brand that is the best, if you search UK or Australia is different too

I think that there are a lot of good products, but it's still difficult to choose. 
And by the way, IMHO if you choose a "good" hub, it is impossible to find difference with some high end brands


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

When you consider how many miles you'll get out of them the money isn't that big a deal amortized over the life of the hub(s). Probably cheaper in the long run over a knock off if there were such a thing.

Why get a knock off to save money when there's so many other great proven and company backed hubs out there that are cheaper? 

I know I'm not really addressingt he question but just something to think about.


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

The ORC is listed at 222gr. and many of the Bitex hubs on ebay, etc. are about 210, 12 grams isn't much of a weight penalty given the many other plusses with the ORC.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

YishunBike Stefano said:


> It's very strange.
> I have never tried an Alchemy hub, but tried some different products...
> In every forum i read there are different hub that are considered the best.
> If you search in an Italian forum they speak very well about Spada Hubs, if you search in a german forum there is another brand that is the best, if you search UK or Australia is different too
> ...


This is true too. Even between US forums you get certain popular products. 

Theres a lot of good hubs out there these days. As hyped as alchemy is, they really dont do anything that other hubs cant. You'd be just as happy on king hubs, WI, DT swiss, or even hope hubs (which seem invisible to the road crowd).


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## macming (Dec 2, 2004)

mgurtzweiler said:


> Any Taiwanese or Ebay hubs that are close to Alchemy's design?


I believe you do get what you pay for with hubs. If you wanted to save money, I'd go with a cheaper front, and a rear from a good brand


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## audibmi (Jan 2, 2006)

wheels manufacturing, the company that manfactures the hubs for alchemy has their own brand of ultra light hubs listed on page 11 of their 2011 catalog. the hub shells and weights appear to similar if not identical to alchemys. are there any differences with the internals? more importantly, is the price of the wheels manufacturing hub less expensive than alchemys? can't imagine they would undercut one of their clients.


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## YishunBike Stefano (Oct 11, 2010)

macming said:


> I believe you do get what you pay for with hubs. If you wanted to save money, I'd go with a cheaper front, and a rear from a good brand


I don't agree. I'd like to set up 2 wheelset with those hubs and with good and 1/4 price hubs and make tested ...


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

audibmi said:


> wheels manufacturing, the company that manfactures the hubs for alchemy has their own brand of ultra light hubs listed on page 11 of their 2011 catalog. the hub shells and weights appear to similar if not identical to alchemys. are there any differences with the internals? more importantly, is the price of the wheels manufacturing hub less expensive than alchemys? can't imagine they would undercut one of their clients.


Great catch...very intresting....


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## macming (Dec 2, 2004)

YishunBike Stefano said:


> I don't agree. I'd like to set up 2 wheelset with those hubs and with good and 1/4 price hubs and make tested ...


How so? The front hub basically has two bearings and a spoke flange. If I had to sacrifice something, it'd be the front hub for sure. The rear hub contains the drive mechanism, and I personally would like that to be ultra reliable.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)




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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

Interesting. Do you have the drawings for the front hub as well......Never mind, found it on ebay and front isn't nearly as close to the Alchemy specs. Quite narrow in fact.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

audibmi said:


> wheels manufacturing, the company that manfactures the hubs for alchemy has their own brand of ultra light hubs listed on page 11 of their 2011 catalog. the hub shells and weights appear to similar if not identical to alchemys. are there any differences with the internals? more importantly, is the price of the wheels manufacturing hub less expensive than alchemys? can't imagine they would undercut one of their clients.


As others have said, the draw of the Alchemy design is the flange spacing being maximized for better bracing angle. So, my question would be, do the standard hubs Wheels Mftg. have the same flanging spacing as the Alchemy? My guess is they do not.


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## Mackers (Dec 29, 2009)

They're exactly the same dimensions as the Alchemy hubs.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

Anyone have the price?


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## Mackers (Dec 29, 2009)

They're the exact same hubs, so I doubt their price would be significantly lower.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

I don't see any hubs listed on Wheels' site. Any further info on them? So Mackers, are you saying Alchemy is simply having their name put on the Wheels hubs?


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## Mackers (Dec 29, 2009)

Nope, Alchemy/Jeremy designed them, Wheels Mfg. manufactures them.
They both put their name on them and sell them.

And the hubs are in their catalog, page 11


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

krisdrum said:


> As others have said, the draw of the Alchemy design is the flange spacing being maximized for better bracing angle. So, my question would be, do the standard hubs Wheels Mftg. have the same flanging spacing as the Alchemy? My guess is they do not.


I think thats their marketing.. if you compared two front wheels without knowing which had the wider flange, you're not going to notice unless you have a complete noodle wheel with too few spokes. Theres tons of people on 20 spoke fronts on fairly narrow hubs. 

Rear geo is drastically more important. A front kinda is a front.


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## Mackers (Dec 29, 2009)

I completely agree, while I love the design of the rear hub, I just cannot get excited about the front hub.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

TomH said:


> I think thats their marketing.. if you compared two front wheels without knowing which had the wider flange, you're not going to notice unless you have a complete noodle wheel with too few spokes. Theres tons of people on 20 spoke fronts on fairly narrow hubs.
> 
> Rear geo is drastically more important. A front kinda is a front.


Sorry, was being specific to the rear only. Could have been more specific.


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## rockon (Nov 6, 2007)

I emailed Wheels Mfg to request more info about this hubset and got a response from Dave



> I'm sorry, but we have discontinued this hubset.
> 
> Dave Batka
> Founder
> ...


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## mspeak (Aug 20, 2008)

Theoretically hubs should last you your entire cycling career if maintained properly. With this perspective in mind, wouldn't it make sense to buy a good quality hub even if it was a little expensive?


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

The huge majority of riders dont ride components into the ground. They get bored and buy something else. That also assumes that paying more gets you more. A 30 dollar tiagra hub will last you until the end of time, and it has really great flange geometry. People want something different, or lighter, or flashier though, and they'll pay for it.


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## mspeak (Aug 20, 2008)

TomH I agree with what you are saying. however, if the OP did spend a little more on a part like an alchemy hub than he could feel fairly confident that the part will outlast your riding career, hold its own in the weight category with a classic and timeless look. The only reason to upgrade or buy something different would be to sastisfy his need to find hapiness in material goods... : )


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## bent steel (Dec 28, 2007)

mspeak said:


> TomH I agree with what you are saying. however, if the OP did spend a little more on a part like an alchemy hub than he could feel fairly confident that the part will outlast your riding career, hold its own in the weight category with a classic and timeless look. The only reason to upgrade or buy something different would be to sastisfy his need to find hapiness in material goods... : )


Or hub spacing would change, or he'd like to try Campsramno 14s cassettes, or disc brakes, or magnetic stopping, etc. There's always an available reason to "upgrade".


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## nsk1 (Feb 22, 2012)

good find with the comparison to the Circus Monkey hub. i was looking into them. good to know i was on the right track.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

Bitex knocked off the front alchemy hub to the tenth of a millimeter or so. Same bearing size and all. bikehubstore.com has them. The rears still dont have as good spacing.


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## Crawf (Oct 21, 2010)

The wide front 78g hub sold by BHS (Bitex?) has similar spacing to Alchemy's front hub.
Not aware of a rear hub on the market that is similar.

Edit: Ahh what Tom said


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

TomH said:


> Bitex knocked off the front alchemy hub to the tenth of a millimeter or so. Same bearing size and all. bikehubstore.com has them. The rears still dont have as good spacing.


Alchemy spacing
left flange dia. 42mm, right flange dia 58mm Cen to lf 36.8, cen to rf 19.6 for Campy c to lf 38.6, c to rf 18

the bikehubstore rear hub
left flange dia. 38.4mm, right flange dia 49.3mm Cen to lf 37.5, cen to rf 16.75 

just i thought i should post the differences and let the discussion begin. 

I recently had a wheelset built using the BHS hubs on a set of 28 front 32 rear rims. came out nice. seem stiffer than my AC sprint 350s.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

Differences in design as well. No other hub checks off all the boxes described below.

This is poached from Jeremy, the man behind Alchemy.

_Design features:
- The Elf was designed by a wheel-builder for wheel-builders. Like the Orc, it has the best overall wheel-building dimensions of any hub available. The flanges are very widely spaced and they are angled at six degrees. The wide flange spacing produces a stronger and stiffer wheel at a given spoke count than other hubs. Alternatively, the wide flange spacing allows the builder to use fewer spokes (less weight and lower aerodynamic drag) and maintain strength and stiffness compared to other conventional hubs.

- The Elf uses a 6900 series bearing. These bearings have a relatively thick cross section, larger ball bearings and are more durable than the ultra-thin 6800 series bearings used to lower weight on most other light front hubs. 

- The bearings on the Elf are only three millimeters from the dropout (94mm apart). The axle span between the bearing and the dropout functions as a lever arm, keeping this distance as short as possible dramatically improves the effective stiffness of the axle, hub and wheel. 

- Bearing preload is adjustable using two 5mm hex wrenches._


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

nsk1 said:


> good find with the comparison to the Circus Monkey hub. i was looking into them. good to know i was on the right track.


Circus Monkey hubs are measured center to outside of flange. Spacing is not on par with Alchemy hubs at all.


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