# Weird air bubbles under top coat of carbon frame



## 1speed_Mike (Feb 16, 2004)

For the last couple of weeks, I've been ripping around on a new carbon roadie. It's been fantastic and has rejuvinated my love for riding again! I needed that!

Unfortunately, over the last couple of weeks or so, I've noticed some weird air bubbles under the clear coat on the top tube of my carbon roadie. The bubbles are sandwiched between the clear coat and the carbon weave underneath. You can't feel them with your fingers. There's no sign of damage, etc anywhere near the sections. None of the other tubes seems to have this issue…just the top tube. Weird. These certainly were NOT there when I bought the bike new.

Here's a pic:










Unfortunately, since I noticed it a week ago, it looks like it is spreading. There are 3 distinct areas along the top tube where there are air bubbles. I'm sure it's cosmetic at this point, but, part of the strength in carbon comes from the outer layer. If that's starting to have issues, it could mean probs down the road. And, since it's spreading, I'm concerned!

What do you think?


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

wow, that is wierd...I never heard of anything like that....could it be the fiber de-laminating?


can you see the bubbles?.....I can't tell from the pic, all I can see is a bulge....if it is indeed spreading I would be more than a little concerned. Talk to the mfr.


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## 2bits (Jul 31, 2007)

Clearly, you can't leave it be, neither for safety or cosmetic reasons. You need to get the frame replaced under warranty.


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## 1speed_Mike (Feb 16, 2004)

Touch0Gray said:


> wow, that is wierd...I never heard of anything like that....could it be the fiber de-laminating?


I certainly hope not! But, I've sent an email with the picture to the manufacturer, the distributor and the LBS to see what they think. I don't think it's good as it should NOT be doing that. IMHO, in order for the air bubbles to form, the tube must be flexing/twisting. I'm only 135lbs, so I don't think I do that much to a frame 

Gotta say, this is my first carbon roadie (after years of Ti) and I'm glad I'm buying a Moots Ti roadie on Monday! :thumbsup: 



> can you see the bubbles?


Yes. The pic shows the non-drive-side view of the top tube near the head tube. Just back from the head tube bulge (top left corner of pic), there's a series of air bubbles on the top of the top tube that extends down the non-drive-side side of the top tube. The bubbles are pretty much right in the middle of the pic.


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## 1speed_Mike (Feb 16, 2004)

2bits said:


> Clearly, you can't leave it be, neither for safety or cosmetic reasons. You need to get the frame replaced under warranty.


I've sent emails with description, serial number, pic, etc to the manufacturer, distributor and LBS. We'll see what they say!


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## DM-SC (Jul 18, 2007)

My frame something similar on both sides of the down tube, near the head tube. It was there when I bought the frame (I got a discount because of them). I haven't noticed them getting any worse, however.

The rep for this area, the LBS owner and I all discussed it and decided it wasn't a problem other than looks.

Of course, I got assured that IF it became and issue down the road, it would be covered under warranty.


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## wasfast (Feb 3, 2004)

It's highly unlikely it's the fibers underneath. The most common issue is the clear coat separating from the composite.


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## doowde (Aug 27, 2007)

looks like a bonding issue (resin to CF). Should be covered under warranty. 

Maybe someone had KFC for lunch and touched that spot with their greasy fingers prior to impregnating with resin/curing under vacuum.

could also just be that the vacuum pressure wasn't high enough in that spot during curing


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## 1speed_Mike (Feb 16, 2004)

Not sure what the problem is or what caused it. I'm taking the bike down to the LBS tomorrow for a visual inspection of the affected areas.


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## doowde (Aug 27, 2007)

in theory, the bonding of resin to CF is very important for the overall performance of the composite system. While that may not be a critical location of stress (top tube near seat post doesn't seem too critical), it is more than cosmetic. If nothing else it affects resale value should you try to sell it. 

as far as what it actually is, I am just speculating of course.


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## 1speed_Mike (Feb 16, 2004)

Yes, I understand the theory of composites and would think that if there's a degradation of the composite (in any way), it weakens the overall structure. That's why I'm concerned...and, by the fact that it is spreading. When I first noticed it a couple weeks ago, it was just a few dots on the top of the top tube. Over the course of 10 days or so with some mileage, the dots seem to be propagating down the non-drive-side of the top tube. Also, a second spot has appeared further down the top tube towards the seat tube. FWIW, the area in the pic is a couple inches behind the head tube, not seat tube.


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## 1speed_Mike (Feb 16, 2004)

Brought my bike down to the LBS so they could have a personal visual inspection. They were confused as to how/what/why the bubbles are there? They've taken more digital pictures and spoken with both the local distributor and the manufacturer. We'll see what they say....


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## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

I would be concerned but I'd certainly not jump to conclusions and assume it was something wrong with the carbon fiber layup. While it could be that, it could just as likely (more likely?) be a problem with the clear coat. Let the LBS work with the factory rep and determine the proper course of action. I see a new frame in your future, whether it's a clear coat problem or something more serious.


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## 1speed_Mike (Feb 16, 2004)

Mel Erickson said:


> I would be concerned but I'd certainly not jump to conclusions and assume it was something wrong with the carbon fiber layup.


Agreed....I'm certainly not a carbon expert, although I do have some opinions on the subject. But, I'll let the experts decide what happened.



> Let the LBS work with the factory rep and determine the proper course of action. I see a new frame in your future, whether it's a clear coat problem or something more serious.


Yep, that's what I've done. Fingers-crossed.


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## 1speed_Mike (Feb 16, 2004)

Got a reply from the manufacturer after receiving the digital pics of the frame. Here's what they said: 

_"Dear Mike,

the small air bubbles under clear coat aren´t worrying. It´s only an minor optical defect.
The reason could be too high air humidity at the painting process. Thereby the clear coat could become milky after a couple of weeks or months."_

To which, I replied: 

_"Thank you for your quick reply concerning this matter!

Is this normal and can be expected on all XXX or only a small subset? Have you seen this issue before? Can you guarantee me that the this is 'optical' and will not have any 'structural' issues?

I specifically purchased the XXX (versus the YYY, or any of the competitions frames: Cervelo R3, etc.) because of the clear coat finish which showed the beautiful carbon weave underneath. I didn't want the carbon to be covered by paint, etc....I wanted to see it! If I knew this was going to be an issue, I would not have purchased the XXX.

I'm concerned by the fact that the air bubbles are spreading. What originally started-out as a small pea-sized section of air bubbles on the top tube a couple weeks ago, has started to extend down the side of top tube. Also, a second section has appeared further down the top tube from the first.

While it may be an optical defect, I'm sure you'd agree, it's not the quality I was expecting when I purchased the XXX, your top-of-the-line frame for 2007."_


To which, they replied:

_"I´m sure it´s an opitcal and not an structural defect. The carbon layers are okay.

This issue isn´t normal and it isn´t a special XXX problem. It could be happend at every carbon frame, but it´s really rare. I know another 2 cases only.

I´m agree with you this isn´t the quality of an high end frame. And you´re free to complain the frame about your dealer to XXX. We will replace the frame then, but I have no idea how long the process take."_

I'm pushing for a new frameset....


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## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

You bet. Have your LBS start the process. You deserve a new frame.


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## 1speed_Mike (Feb 16, 2004)

Mel Erickson said:


> You bet. Have your LBS start the process. You deserve a new frame.


Already got that process on the way! Winter is coming so it's good timing, I guess. Still sucks though as I just built her up on Tuesday with some new Record and other carbon goodies! New tubbies tomorrow, too!


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

1speed_Mike said:


> Got a reply from the manufacturer after receiving the digital pics of the frame. Here's what they said:
> 
> _"Dear Mike,
> 
> ...


What's with this XXX crap??? What is it? - TF


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## roy harley (Oct 22, 2006)

1speed_Mike said:


> Got a reply from the manufacturer after receiving the digital pics of the frame. Here's what they said:
> 
> _"Dear Mike,
> 
> ...


I guess it’s not a Cervelo R3? Is your bike in a Witness protection program? It would be nice to know what companies take care of these matters and which ones people have issues with.


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## 1speed_Mike (Feb 16, 2004)

roy harley said:


> I guess it’s not a Cervelo R3? Is your bike in a Witness protection program? It would be nice to know what companies take care of these matters and which ones people have issues with.


Stevensbikes.de


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## oily666 (Apr 7, 2007)

*My Guess Is Out-Gassing*

I've been in polymer floor surfaces and chemical containment for 19 years. Epoxy biz for short. I have two guesses as to what your problem may be. I could be wrong on both but, I don't think so. The first is simply a contaminated spot on your frame where the clear coat didn't adhere. Hamburger grease or sushi on a worker's finger. 

It could also be out gassing which is air trying to escape from a porous substrate through a non-breathing surface, your clear coat. This sometimes happens when we apply a thick coat of high viscosity epoxy to a concrete floor. What I would be worried about on your frame is *the fact that there may be air pockets in the carbon lay up.* NFG! Once the frame was exposed to sun light and warmed, air trapped in the carbon expanded and pushed to the surface. With some frames, the clear coat actually figures into the overall strength of the tube. Look, for instance, will void your warranty if you paint one of their frames because of the possibility of paint solvent attacking their surface. The bottom line is, there shouldn't be air trapped in your frame. That's the whole objective of Trek's OCLV (optimum compression, low void) process. Personally, I would not ride the frame in the photo, especially given where the bubbling is.


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## 1speed_Mike (Feb 16, 2004)

oily666 said:


> I've been in polymer floor surfaces and chemical containment for 19 years. Epoxy biz for short. I have two guesses as to what your problem may be. I could be wrong on both but, I don't think so. The first is simply a contaminated spot on your frame where the clear coat didn't adhere. Hamburger grease


Hmm, frame was made in Hamburg, Germany! That's got to be it!  



> It could also be out gassing which is air trying to escape from a porous substrate through a non-breathing surface, your clear coat. This sometimes happens when we apply a thick coat of high viscosity epoxy to a concrete floor. What I would be worried about on your frame is *the fact that there may be air pockets in the carbon lay up.* NFG! Once the frame was exposed to sun light and warmed, air trapped in the carbon expanded and pushed to the surface.


Yes, that's what I'm thinking happened, too.



> With some frames, the clear coat actually figures into the overall strength of the tube. Look, for instance, will void your warranty if you paint one of their frames because of the possibility of paint solvent attacking their surface.


I'd agree, but I don't know specifically if this is what Stevens does on the SLC. I'd assume, due to the ultra-lightweigth, it's intended to add some strength.



> The bottom line is, there shouldn't be air trapped in your frame. That's the whole objective of Trek's OCLV (optimum compression, low void) process. Personally, I would not ride the frame in the photo, especially given where the bubbling is.


Agreed! I won't be happy until I get a new frameset. Optical or structural, it's a problem and I don't want anything to do with it.


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## oily666 (Apr 7, 2007)

Glad I could help, Mike. Good luck. I'd be interested in knowing more about the manufacturer. If the came recommended, they probably put out a good product. You just ran into one of, maybe, a few whoop's that should never have been shipped. More over, they've probably eliminated the problem. Do they have a web site?


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## r_mutt (Aug 8, 2007)

i've seen this before about in the motorcycle industry. it used to be a common problem when painting or clearcoating carbon. a friend had carbon-fiber bodywork and had it clearcoated. bubbles started forming here and there, and as someone else stated, it's trapped air, but when i've seen it, it was not from the carbon, but from the clearcoating process. in my friends case, it was strictly a visual issue and not a structural one. a mechanic saw it and said he'd seen dozen's of bodywork with simliar issues- but this was 10 years ago.


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## doowde (Aug 27, 2007)

where does the word "clearcoat" come into the equation? Are you referring to all the epoxy as simply a "clearcoat" or another separate "clearcoat" layer that then gets put over the epoxy?


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

doowde said:


> where does the word "clearcoat" come into the equation? Are you referring to all the epoxy as simply a "clearcoat" or another separate "clearcoat" layer that then gets put over the epoxy?


The carbon frame pictured has a layer of 'carbon weave' (carbon doesn't really look like that) and then a layer of clearcoat over that. Some claim that their clearcoat privides UV protection to the actual resin??? - TF


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## 1speed_Mike (Feb 16, 2004)

TurboTurtle said:


> The carbon frame pictured has a layer of 'carbon weave' (carbon doesn't really look like that) and then a layer of clearcoat over that. Some claim that their clearcoat privides UV protection to the actual resin??? - TF


Yes, you are correct. Stevens adds a visual carbon layer over the actual carbon. That's the nice cosmetic weave you see. It's then topped-off with a protective resin/clearcoat. It's a more intensive process. A lot of carbon builders opt to paint the carbon instead.

Unfortunately, as beautiful as the SLC is, the bubbles are worsening! That is, the original areas are propagating along the top tube and some new sections have started. I'm now trying expedite a warranty, with perhaps a 2008 :thumbsup: Even lighter! But, unfortunately, it's painted carbon....I really like the visual carbon weave. Not bad though...I'd hit it!:

Here's the 2008:









And, here's my 2007:










We'll see what happens...


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## Monty Dog (Apr 8, 2004)

Frames are constructed from 'nude' carbon - the clearcoat is purely a cosmetic finish, to help provide additional protection to the composite as well as for aesthetic reasons - it has no structural function. The bubbling looks purely down to a lack of adhesion - e.g. greasy fingerprint - of the clearcoat. I've spend years working with structural composites and this doesn't even figure on the 'should I be worried about this' scale of things. The reply from your LBS / distributor has you covered - why all this anguish?


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## 1speed_Mike (Feb 16, 2004)

Monty Dog said:


> I've spend years working with structural composites and this doesn't even figure on the 'should I be worried about this' scale of things. The reply from your LBS / distributor has you covered - why all this anguish?


Anguish? Not anguish, but I'm not a carbon engineer (although, I'm now a defunct structural engineer, working as a software engineer for a telecom company). 

I've done some work with carbon and have a pretty good understanding of it. Part of my fears comes from the fact that you really can't tell, for certain, what's going on. Manufacturer says it's 'optical' and not to worry. But, with carbon, can you ever be sure? 

I've ridden Ti for ~10-yrs and never had to worry about such this as this. So, I thought I'd throw it out there for the RBR experts  

I'm updating the post with pics/text to document the on-going issue, with the frame and the replacement. Stevens doesn't get a lot of coverage on RBR, but they are making huge grounds locally, especially in CX...man, they were everywhere today at the first CX race!! Really nice bikes! But, unfortunately, I got a greasy-one. So be it, now we see how Stevens handles it.


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## 1speed_Mike (Feb 16, 2004)

For those who may be interested, here's a summary of what's happened so far:

1 - Manufacturer feels the bubbles are strictly cosmetic and the bike can continue to be ridden (they've only seen this issue a couple of times); and
2 - Manufacturer will warranty with new frameset in Feb 2008 (hopefully, SLC Team):










So, all-in-all, while I'm disappointed that had some cosmetic issues with my frame, I'm very impressed/happy with the outcome and customer service thus far. I've been around bikes long enough to realize, 'stuff' happens. And, while it sucks, it's how a company responds to these 'things' that truely makes/breaks a company in my view. So far :thumbsup: 

I've got a few weeks left to ride outside before the snow flies. Then, the bike will be in the basement on a trainer (I've got a MTB and CX for riding in the snow). At which point, I have an option:

1 - I can continue to ride the frame until the new frame arrives in Feb 08;
2 - I can take a loaner of a new 07 SCF1 frameset/fork and return once I get my warranty; or,
3 - I can buy the new 07 SCF1 frameset/fork at a great price and still get the warranty in 08!










I've got the DA group and OEM parts from my SLC, so I could easily build-up the SCF1 on-the-cheap (cost of frame/fork only), while still having the SLC Team. So, #3 is looking interesting!


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## doowde (Aug 27, 2007)

glad to hear they are gonna replace with a new frame.:thumbsup:


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## 1speed_Mike (Feb 16, 2004)

Well, I just wanted to provide a very happy follow-up to my frame issue I had late last season. As promised, I received my new 08 Stevens SLC Team frameset/fork this week! :thumbsup: 















































Click here for some more Stevens bike p0rn


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## zero85ZEN (Oct 11, 2002)

*Very nice bike!*



1speed_Mike said:


> Well, I just wanted to provide a very happy follow-up to my frame issue I had late last season. As promised, I received my new 08 Stevens SLC Team frameset/fork this week! :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> Click here for some more Stevens bike p0rn



Well appointed component wise as well. 

Sounds like the manufacturer and your LBS took very good care of you.

Nice photo galleries by the way.


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## 1speed_Mike (Feb 16, 2004)

zero85ZEN said:


> Well appointed component wise as well.


Thanks! Hard to go wrong with Record :thumbsup: 



> Sounds like the manufacturer and your LBS took very good care of you.


It worked-out very well, which is why I wanted to post a follow-up with my very positive experiences with Stevens. You don't see many others on these forums (I heard they aren't available in the US...I'm in Canada). 

By mid-Nov, I was riding my old bike on a trainer (since we had an early winter) and was riding it until just a couple of weeks ago. Since it was on the trainer, I wasn't concerned about the carbon. 

Then, a couple weeks ago, I got the word from the distributor to bring in my old frame and that my new one would be in soon. We'd only just started riding outside and the roadz were crap, so I was using my Empella CX bike with road tires. Now, roadz have been cleared, swept and the new bike is built! Perfect timing!

As an aside, the distributor still thinks that the air bubbles were only cosmetic. Maybe, maybe not? In the end, I didn't want to take a chance. The frame was only a month or two old, so I opted to go for the warranty.



> Nice photo galleries by the way.


Thanks! I try and keep them updated with pics for my Family, etc.


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## csilkman (Jul 16, 2008)

I was looking for something and saw this thread, great to see everything worked out and you're happy. Looks like a great bike from a service orientated manufacturer.

One thing I didn't notice anyone saying is that barring any structural issues, pealing or bubbling clear-coat will greatly (negatively) affect the resale value of the frame and make it very hard to sell down the road.


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## sleddah (Sep 23, 2008)

It sounds as if you really have a lot of time on your hands. I don't imagine that the LBS had a lack of contacts from you. I often wonder waht makes persons such as yourself "tick." Extremely type A, very concerned about getting small things taken care of, and making sure that everyone is as concerned as you. Honestly, I don't know of anyone who would have even questioned it, or possibly even have known, or been anal enough to be looking for air bubbles in the finish. Anyways, grats, I guess.  Wow.


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## csilkman (Jul 16, 2008)

sleddah said:


> It sounds as if you really have a lot of time on your hands. I don't imagine that the LBS had a lack of contacts from you. I often wonder waht makes persons such as yourself "tick." Extremely type A, very concerned about getting small things taken care of, and making sure that everyone is as concerned as you. Honestly, I don't know of anyone who would have even questioned it, or possibly even have known, or been anal enough to be looking for air bubbles in the finish. Anyways, grats, I guess.  Wow.


Guess you know two people now, I absolutely would have questioned it. When you pay for something, you expect to get what you pay for. If there is a defect, no matter how small, you have the right (normally) to get it fixed.

Welcome to the Internet, being vocal often gets manufacturers to take notice and correct problems quicker. Check it out... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum


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## sleddah (Sep 23, 2008)

I guess my point was only that it must be nice to have that much free time. Cheers, and happy riding. Thanks for the link to the interpretation of what a forum is.....although I did sense some sarcasm, it was neat. Take care.


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## 1speed_Mike (Feb 16, 2004)

sleddah said:


> It sounds as if you really have a lot of time on your hands. I don't imagine that the LBS had a lack of contacts from you. I often wonder waht makes persons such as yourself "tick." Extremely type A, very concerned about getting small things taken care of, and making sure that everyone is as concerned as you. Honestly, I don't know of anyone who would have even questioned it, or possibly even have known, or been anal enough to be looking for air bubbles in the finish. Anyways, grats, I guess.  Wow.


I could ask you the same? You aren't providing any valuable input to this thread, so why post your useless comment? What makes you "tick"?

Ya, I've got tons of time on my hands...working full-time + OT, single Dad to 2 young kids, etc. I love nothing more than to bug LBS' and manufacturers with sh*t like this! 

So, are you telling me, that if you bougth a brand-new bike/frame and you had a similar issue, you wouldn't complain? 

I noticed the air bubbles one day during a ride. They looked like dried beads of sweat on the top tube. When I tried to rub them off, that's when I noticed the air bubbles below the top coat. With a naked carbon tube (just covered with clearcoat), it was pretty hard to miss. No CSI or anything fancy required.

I'm an Engineer. When I see flaws in steel, aluminum, titanium, etc. it bugs me. When I see flaws in carbon, it scares me. I think I was well within my rights and reason to question the manufacturer about the issue. They were very nice and never once offered any resistance, etc. Not sure why you are so bothered by it.


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## Snap (Jun 2, 2007)

Mike, _Sleddah_ is troll speak for d0uchebag. I wouldn't feel the need to explain yourelf to it.


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## sleddah (Sep 23, 2008)

Nice to know that this is a community where others opinions are honored. Thank you for the colorful adjective btw. I suppose your education with language such as that, structured in an attempt at a sentence is that of an engineer as well? I was a little brash with my initial thread at 1speed. I do owe him an apology, I have reread ita couple times, probably not necessary. My sister is an engineer, very intelligent people, just overly focused sometimes was what I was getting at, again, apologies to you 1speed.. 

So, now that we have it established that I am a feminine hygiene product apparently, what kind of riding do you guys do? In New England it is mostly gradual (but long) climbs, nothing over aggressive. My favorite riding area is anything in or around Mt. Desert Island (Acadia). Anybody familiar with that area?


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## 1speed_Mike (Feb 16, 2004)

sleddah said:


> Nice to know that this is a community where others opinions are honored. Thank you for the colorful adjective btw. I suppose your education with language such as that, structured in an attempt at a sentence is that of an engineer as well? I was a little brash with my initial thread at 1speed. I do owe him an apology, I have reread ita couple times, probably not necessary. My sister is an engineer, very intelligent people, just overly focused sometimes was what I was getting at, again, apologies to you 1speed..


Thanks sleddah!

I wouldn't say we are "overly focused". Again, I didn't have to focus on the problem...it was right there in front of me. I saw it every ride! But, I getcha!

This was my first carbon frame. Call me paranoid, but when I see a flaw like that in carbon, I'm not going to take any chances. The manufacturer obviously agreed and replaced it.


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## sleddah (Sep 23, 2008)

I tend to not have a good filter when I am thinking things sometimes, :blush2: At any rate, I am a 15 year fairly aggressive Mtn Biker (yes I have broken a Yeti carbon frame) heh, and am just getting into roading. 

My first bike is the Raleigh full carbon competition. Full Dura-Ace, with Ultegra flight deck. The bike is sick fast, and climbing is heavenly!! I bought it Friday and have 90 miles on it already (2 rides). I am averaging right around 16.6-17mph, so I have some work to do there. Looking for any tips for someone making the transition from dirt to road. I will still ride dirt, I love it too much to give up, but any roadie tips I can get I am all ears.


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## Eisentraut (Sep 18, 2008)

If this were a delamination issue I think you would see fractures in the clear coat. What your looking at is blush caused by moisture and is only cosmetic. now granted I wouldn't want to see it on my new bike either but they will take this frame, sand it and recoat it and no one will be the wiser. Tapping this part of your bike with a coin will also assure you that this isn't structural. I'd still talk to my LBS.


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## Snap (Jun 2, 2007)

And you're what, an english major? 

Search the forum, especially the Beginner's Corner, and you'll find tips galor. 

No, that is not an attempt at a dig, there is an abundance of info in there for riders of all skill levels. 

By the way, this attempt at a reply took me ten minutes to write because you have made me all self conscious about my sentence structure and now nothing sounds right.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

1speed_Mike said:


> Got a reply from the manufacturer after receiving the digital pics of the frame. Here's what they said:
> 
> _"Dear Mike,
> 
> ...


 Sounds to me like that manufacturer is fibbing a bit. The bubbles are caused by what is known as "out-gassing". The carbon layup is still curing in there, so obviously it was improperly done in some way...Wrong mix in the epoxy, wrong pressure in the mold, not a complete saturation of the fabric during lay up...something... So I'd get a replacment frame..and I would call for it to be shipped to you first, so you aren't bike-less while they 'adjust' their problem with your particular frame. These guys you spoke to are 'front office types' not composite specialists. 

Your frame shouldn't be producing bubbles if it was sold as a finished frame. It ain't finished cause it is still curing.

I am sure the 'front office types' who are telling you.."Don't worry, everything is just fine" would be a bit more inclined to replace the frame quickly if you mention you are going to start asking around on the Internet to see if anyone else has a "______-brand" frame with the same problem as your "_____ brand frame" Not good for the reputation of their product and likely to hurt their sales..

Don Hanson


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## sleddah (Sep 23, 2008)

Relax Snap, it's OK man. I have big shoulders, you wanna fire back at me it's all good. Anyways, good to know, thanks I will check that out. And Snap, really relax man, you're gonna get yerself all wound into a lather. I am a REALLY easy going guy, trust me, LOL. Lets restart our dialogue Snap. What kind of bike do you ride, where do you like to ride etc? I am interested, I'll check back later.

Peace


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## Snap (Jun 2, 2007)

Wasn't trying to fire back at you, seriously. I was actually smiling when I typed it, although when I re-read it I can see how the post could be misinterpreted as a bit uptight without the visual cue of my bright, smiley mug  <-- represents my bright, smilely mug

The suggestion to check out beginner's corner was in earnest. Lots of good tips and tricks to make riding easier/safer/more fun. Since you're an experienced mtn biker I thought you might take offense at the suggestion, hence the disclaimer. 

I'm also pretty chilled out/laid back, no joke. Your first post just rubbed me the wrong way. It happens. 

I (don't) ride a Specialized Tarmac that I built up with DA. Trying to get back into the swing of riding but can't seem to find the motivation to find time to ride. Although obviously I find time to post on here. Go figure. 

Are you an english major? 'Cause that takes all the fun out of posting...I already know my grammar sux.


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## 1speed_Mike (Feb 16, 2004)

sleddah said:


> I tend to not have a good filter when I am thinking things sometimes, :blush2: At any rate, I am a 15 year fairly aggressive Mtn Biker (yes I have broken a Yeti carbon frame) heh, and am just getting into roading.
> 
> My first bike is the Raleigh full carbon competition. Full Dura-Ace, with Ultegra flight deck. The bike is sick fast, and climbing is heavenly!! I bought it Friday and have 90 miles on it already (2 rides). I am averaging right around 16.6-17mph, so I have some work to do there. Looking for any tips for someone making the transition from dirt to road. I will still ride dirt, I love it too much to give up, but any roadie tips I can get I am all ears.


I'm a MTB'er, too. Trained and raced a lot, got burnt-out, etc. Took the last 3-yrs off and just rode for "fun" (no computer, no heart rate monitor, etc.)...it was great!

Then, I bought a road bike last Fall (the one that had the air bubble issue on the top tube). From the day I got the bike, I rode it nearly every day until Winter set in (which, was early at the end of Nov). I loved it! It re-inspired my love for riding and wanting to race again!

Even in the Winter, I rode the bike on the trainer throughout the Winter, bought a PowerTap to help train with power. I was hoping to get back into racing (this time, road).

Unfortunately, work got in the way and I wasn't able to get myself ready for road racing in the Spring, but I rode my road bike nearly every opportunity I got! I love it! It's completely different than MTB'ing, which is good/bad. But, road riding definitely helps with developing endurance for MTB'ing.

At any rate, normally, I'd be itching for Spring to hit the trails. But, this year, I was itching to hit the roads. It was great because, while the trails dried-out after a nasty Winter, I rode the roads and never missed the trails. I didn't actually get on MTB again until August...nearly a full year off MTB! And, once I did hit the trails, they were bone-dry and in perfect condition! And, I felt great since I'd done some heavy road miles and still felt fresh for MTB'ing!

Once I got back on the MTB, it didn't take long to get back in the groove. But, you do lose your singletrack edge on the roads.

Now, I'm itching to race cross again this season...first race this weekend!

What I love about road biking vs MTB'ing is the lack of abuse your body and bike take. Normally, I have to spend a lot of time maintaining my MTB due to the use-n-abuse it gets, overhauling forks, shocks, etc. With my road bike, it's always ready-to-ride...just lube the chain, pump the tires and out the door!

Also, I find my body recovers a lot faster after a road ride than a MTB ride. Sure, my legs and lungs are burning after a good hard road ride, but I don't have that full-body ache that you get after a long hard MTB ride. Maybe I'm just getting soft 

Have fun with the road bike!


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## Pieter (Oct 17, 2005)

1speed_Mike,

It is great that you got your bike back in pristine state.

Now : how much do you propose we guys (I mean, myself) should worry - with our (my) low end Oriental carbon frames which are mostly painted carbon and thus will not even visibly show bubbles / outgassing / etc.

?


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## Eisentraut (Sep 18, 2008)

Pieter said:


> 1speed_Mike,
> 
> It is great that you got your bike back in pristine state.
> 
> ...


If I may........

I wouldn't worry about it at all for 1one specific reason. The structural part of a carbon frame is already laid up and cured before it gets bonded together into a frame. What is the visable carbon is the non structural cosmetic part of the frame. That isn't to say that this outer layer does nothing to strengthen the frame because it does it's just not the main structure. One of the drawbacks to a carbon frame is that it doesn't bend much before it breaks but with that being said the initial strength is very strong and should last a lifetime of riding. I have seen and built many carbon structures (aircraft) in the past 25 years and I've never seen one break when it was used for it's intended purpose. Carbon has been around since the 60's and it's a well understood material so it's not like the industry is wingin it here.

Ride and enjoy!
But keep in mind that **** happens and weather your on carbon or steel won't change that fact.

By the way I ride a Specialized Tarmac so if I'm wrong I'll eat my words with a little road on the side for flavor.


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## Pieter (Oct 17, 2005)

Well said - thanks. 

Yes, one can worry about the frame / fork on every fast downhill - or you can rather pay 0.01% more attention to other traffic on the road. 

The latter option will do 100x times more good for your health...


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## rkb (Apr 4, 2007)

Mike-

I have been lurking occasionally on this thread and I am very happy to see you get a new frame. Most of us expect perfection when we drop a serious amount of money on a product. Countless flawless frames are built everyday, there is no reason not to expect perfection. Even though the bubbles were just cosmetic that is not what you paid for. Nice ride.

R


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