# Crack in my 2008 6.9 Madone downtube



## Muaddib (Feb 21, 2005)

I purchased a 2008 Trek Madone 6.9 Performance fit in December. I noticed what I thought was a chip in the paint through the "Madone 6.9" sticker on the bottom of the downtube. I brought it into the bike shop to have them take a look. They said it is actually a crack in the carbon fiber about 5 inches long up through the middle of the water bottle cage area. I have not wrecked the bike or hit any major rough patches in the road. The wheels are perfectly true. I have about 1800 miles on the frame thus far. Bummer! Guess I'll wait to hear back from Trek tomorrow. Just thought I would let everyone know in case someone else notices a similar problem in the future. Anyone else seen or heard about such a problem on the new frames?

P.S. I am only 5'9" and 139 lbs so I am usually not very tough on my equipment.


----------



## novamega (Jan 25, 2008)

I also have a 6.5 but in pro version, and have not noticed any cracking....Dont worry TREK will take care of the pboblem on your bike...Thats why I buy only TREK BIKES>>>>Sorry that had to happen to you..


----------



## Rollo Tommassi (Feb 5, 2004)

*Poast a foto please?*

unless it's already out of your hands, thanks!


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Thanks for posting. This can happen to any brand, but I think it's good for people to be made aware. Let us know the final resolution, and yes, pics would be nice. I'm sure it'll turn out ok, good luck anyway!


----------



## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

Hey - sorry to hear about your crack. Its a good thing you spotted it and you knew not to ride it. Would have sucked and had potentially bad consequences if it happened during a ride. No doubt Trek will replace it. I'm sure as well that they will examine it to make sure there's no inherent problem with their manufacturing techniques. 
Not to rehash the carbon vs. whatever debate, but my 5.2 is my first full carbon bike. Im a Formula 1 and Ferrari nut and I know how great carbon is but I must admit when I first bought my bike, there was a part of me that thought it was "delicate." After riding it for roughly 500 miles in the last couple months, I really don't give much thought to it anymore. Carbon really is plenty strong and short of abuse or catastrophic failure, I highly doubt I'm going to do anything to break it in the normal course of riding. The more you ride, the more you realize that Carbon is anything but delicate.
Keep us posted.


----------



## Muaddib (Feb 21, 2005)

I took a photo with my cell phone camera but it doesn't show the crack well. I'll see if I can get a photo from the bike shop. They took lots of pictures to send to Trek.


----------



## jamesrobertbruno (Jun 10, 2008)

Muaddib said:


> I purchased a 2008 Trek Madone 6.9 Performance fit in December. I noticed what I thought was a chip in the paint through the "Madone 6.9" sticker on the bottom of the downtube. I brought it into the bike shop to have them take a look. They said it is actually a crack in the carbon fiber about 5 inches long up through the middle of the water bottle cage area. I have not wrecked the bike or hit any major rough patches in the road. The wheels are perfectly true. I have about 1800 miles on the frame thus far. Bummer! Guess I'll wait to hear back from Trek tomorrow. Just thought I would let everyone know in case someone else notices a similar problem in the future. Anyone else seen or heard about such a problem on the new frames?
> 
> P.S. I am only 5'9" and 139 lbs so I am usually not very tough on my equipment.


May Madone 5.5Pro cracked in two places on the bottom bracket.


----------



## jamesrobertbruno (Jun 10, 2008)

My Madone 5.5pro cracked in two places as I started a steep climb.


----------



## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

jamesrobertbruno said:


> My Madone 5.5pro cracked in two places as I started a steep climb.


Did you notice it as soon as you started the climb? If so, what happened that made you notice? Did you hear it crack? Feel it weaken as you cranked? Please let us know.


----------



## jamesrobertbruno (Jun 10, 2008)

Yes. It sounded like a gun being shot. As I pressed down it made the noise and I stopped. When I looked down the bottom two stays looked like smashed bananas and the derailleur snapped off.
I am in the middle of trying to get Trek to step up and honnor the warranty. They are trying to classify it as a crash. Wrong.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

jamesrobertbruno said:


> Yes. It sounded like a gun being shot. As I pressed down it made the noise and I stopped. When I looked down the bottom two stays looked like smashed bananas and the derailleur snapped off.
> I am in the middle of trying to get Trek to step up and honnor the warranty. They are trying to classify it as a crash. Wrong.


I'm not questioning your experiences, but your description is hard to picture. Speaking of which, do you have any? Pictures, that is.


----------



## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

Did the bike give out from under you? Maybe Trek is looking at the damage of the bike scraping the pavement when it gave out and assuming it was in an accident? Be great to see pics.


----------



## graveldog (Aug 5, 2008)

*2008 Madone 5.2*

:cryin: The trek rep is not willing to replace my 2008 Madone 5.2. Their is a start of a crack 14mm on the side of the non drive side chain stay. From the centre BB going measured 157mm to the vertical crack. It is quite evident that it is where the BB carbon is connected to the chainstay carbon. The response is that it is not bad enough to warrant a repacement "keep an ey on it".
Well I have owed the black dot carbon Madone from Feb 2008 to Aug 2009 - have put 10000km on the bike. I am planning on riding the Blue Ridge Mtns in VA. elevation climbing 10,000ft / 8,000ft / 6,000ft for 3 days. Do you think I should ride this bike?
I noticed small pop noises from the BB area - originally thought I had to check BB and crank. It is not regular but hear it sometimes underload when I climb.
I am 5'8" 165lbs - I ride hard and sprint hard on all my bikes.
I am pissed - I have owned 5 treks and still love the bikes thay make but this one is starting to question my loyalty to this brand(?). If I was a weekend warrior then i would not worry, however, I ride lots and push the pace to stay ahead of my fellow Avondale riders.
Comments?


----------



## graveldog (Aug 5, 2008)

*madone 5.2 2008 crack*

View attachment 173360


----------



## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

graveldog said:


> View attachment 173360


That's f'd up. You should tell your LBS to pressure the Trek rep to take it back and tell them about the popping noise, if indeed that is from the frame and not from the crank or elsewhere (make the LBS check it out). I'm not saying that you're lbs is not doing his job, but tell him that you don't have feel comfortable in buying from him again if the rep who deals with him doesn't believe in the LBS he sells to. 

That popping noise may lead to a catastrophic failure.


----------



## jrchan (May 10, 2008)

With your upcoming schedule, I wouldn't ride it. You can clearly see something is not right from your picture. I wonder what the Trek rep would categorize as bad enough to warant a replacement? I would not be happy either if I was in your shoes.


----------



## graveldog (Aug 5, 2008)

Yeah I am pissed and scrambling to get another bike. I would really like to ride the mtns with compact crank. I have two weeks before trip. I have contacted TREK head office complaining. we'll see what happens. I cannot pressure the LBS as the Trek REP is playing the bad guy. Never spoke with the REP just the mechanic at the shop.


----------



## graveldog (Aug 5, 2008)

I was telling my buddies this weekend about the rejection for replacement. The suggestion is to go to the local IKEA store - hook up the CF frame to the automatic actuator - the IKEA machine that opens and closes the drawers. Maybe the constant pressure on the CF will open up the crack so TREK rep can okay the replacemant. I have also checked the TREK website on their warranties - they should honour their frame warranty. This just gives TREK a bad reputation for being stingy. Yeah even Lance rides the cracked frame.


----------



## X'd Out (Feb 15, 2004)

Have they put this in writing, if not you should ask for it in writing, because when that breaks ..........wow I cannot believe a company would risk telling a customer a crack anywhere in a frame is not bad enough to keep on riding it , but a crack in the the chain stay is even more crazy, wonder what their insurance company would think of that advice.


----------



## graveldog (Aug 5, 2008)

Still working on it. I will keep you posted. So far it looks like I have to figure out another bike for my trip. I was hoping to ride with compact crank.


----------



## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

Even though the lbs is not the "bad guy" he has to be put into the middle here. He sells bikes pure and simple. He can't just stand idly by and let you deal with the mfr directly. I am not saying don't be polite to the lbs, but techically the lbs bears the responsibility of working with Trek on your problem.


----------



## Kevin_in_SB (Mar 7, 2009)

ping771 said:


> Even though the lbs is not the "bad guy" he has to be put into the middle here. He sells bikes pure and simple. He can't just stand idly by and let you deal with the mfr directly. I am not saying don't be polite to the lbs, but techically the lbs bears the responsibility of working with Trek on your problem.


Great points.


----------



## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

Kevin_in_SB said:


> Great points.


Thanks! From a legal perspective, on a product defect claim all merchants leading up to the point of sale are strictly liable. That would include the retailer (lbs) and the manufacturer.


----------



## novamega (Jan 25, 2008)

*Cracks*

My 2008 6.5 had some cracks also< they did replace it >There has been a few of the same things with the 2008 and 2009 but it seems to be a defect in the paint and not the frame .They gave me a 2009 frame and all is well so far. I have never had a problem with my lbs with this issue. The other people that have had problems with this issue also got new frames. 3 that I know of for sure. The trek rep in your area is not doing his job!!!!!! If you do not get anywhere with your lbs get a hold of TREK Customer service in Wis. They have been there for a long time and they will take care of the problem. As far as the creak you hear it could be alot of things,pedals,shoes, etc.I don't think it is the carbon making that noise.Good luck, any more questions please feel free to ask>>>>Paul


----------



## graveldog (Aug 5, 2008)

Thanks Paul for your response and suggestions. I have sent off my complaint to TREK Corp CS dept. in Wisconsin. waiting to hear back. What do you think about the picture I posted(?). As I mentioned earlier I push the pace on my bike and also sprints (never crashed). This is under regular wear and tear after riding this bike for 1 1/2 years. I am not interested in repainting - main concern is the integrity in the area where the chain stay is joined with BB. If I do not get a replacement then this bike will have to be relegated onto the trainer in the basement or a beater bike to go to the corner store. No more hard accelerations or attempts to sprint.


----------



## novamega (Jan 25, 2008)

When I was talking about the paint I meant that my paint was no longer available so the up graded to a newer year> They did not give me the same frame all new serial #'s different frame.Trek knows about this problem after all 4 from my lbs alone ,let alone all trek stores all over the world, Did you sent photos to Trek? I think it will get taken care of it might take a little time but not to long. A good friend that works where I bought all my bikes said that all those cracks are in the base and clear coat and NOT the frame cracking! they actually sanded past the crack and ther was no damage to the carbon.The crack that you have looks like the one I had on mine. Trek Will replace the frame for you I'am Sure of it. I know this freaked me out TOO when I say the cracks in my bike.


----------



## graveldog (Aug 5, 2008)

Paul - the rep has already dropped by my LBS and rejected replacement - indicating this bike is still ridable. I will wait for response from Wisconson Customer service - I am chasing this one down as a consumer I feel the integrity of the frame has been compromised. Trek Corp has not responded yet - I will send in picture. I need to have peace of mind so as i can push hard to keep in our regular rides and sprints - otherwise I can only coast and watch the action from behind - scratchin my head MMMM??? Can the frame hold up for my next sprint?


----------



## novamega (Jan 25, 2008)

keep me posted and let me know the outcome,I hope it gets taken care of. Let me know because I will try on my end to get some answers>>have a good day. I would keep riding the bike, they said nothing was wrong so if it does come apart on you ,you will have some ammo for what is about to follow if you catch my drift!!!!!!


----------



## graveldog (Aug 5, 2008)

Yeah I will show up at my LBS with road rash / broken bones and a cracked frame - just to prove my point about Trek CF frame integrity. Yeah I told ya so!!!. I wish it would be that easy to think that it is only the paint or clear coat right on the line of the joined area. No worries I will keep all posted who are following my soap opera of a claim. It would make feel better if they say - we will send it to Wisconson ( may have to miss the bike for several weeks - as I don't mind) to really check the real reason for the crack in this area. Ciao for now!!! I just wanna feel safe in trusting my ride.


----------



## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

graveldog, I feel your pain. No one wants to see that on their ride.

Couple things I would do.

1) Get your LTD (through the local Trek rep) to put in writing that this is not a frame crack, just a paint crack, and that it is safe to ride in that condition.

2) Honestly, to me it does look like a paint crack (But I am just looking at a picture and cannot evaluate the frame in person). The early 2008 Madone paint was prone to this at the lug junctions (and from the picture that crack line is showing pretty much where the stays end over the BB shell lug). Trek did replace many frames, but you are now out of paint warranty time.

3) I wouldn't hesitate to ride this frame, assuming just a paint crack.

4) While you may want to leave the area alone for now, and continue to "just keep and eye on it" for the time being...eventually when satisfied that it is only a paint crack, you are going to want to treat that area at some point in the future.

As for the noise, in the BB area, have you checked your bearings recently?
HTH
zac


----------



## Dr. Placebo (May 8, 2007)

That looks like a seam between the rear triangle and the BB lug. Could they be downplaying it because they feel it's not a crack through one of the modules that make up the frame? It's still not regular wear and tear. Perhaps something went arye in the application or curing of the epoxy at that joint. They use step up joints so there's a lot of mechanical support at the joint which could potentially reduce the risk of accelerated failure at another point on the frame if in fact the bike could be coming apart there. Still pursue it. Better safe than sorry.


----------



## graveldog (Aug 5, 2008)

TREK wisconson reply;
I showed it to several of our warranty people here and it was agreed that it was a paint crack and that the integrity of the frame has not been compromised. All carbon exhibits some degree of flex, which the paint is unable to match, sometimes causing cracks.
We do warranty all of our paint for a year, so if you purchased your bike less than a year ago, ask your dealer to file another claim. 
They don't address my concern that it is where the BB and chainstay are joined. If I read btwn the lines - S.O.L. until they see more of a crack (aka crash test dummy). I also heard that TREK monitors some of these Forums - I hope they see it as I am willing to share my woes with the cycling community.


----------



## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

graveldog said:


> TREK wisconson reply;
> I showed it to several of our warranty people here and it was agreed that it was a paint crack and that the integrity of the frame has not been compromised. All carbon exhibits some degree of flex, which the paint is unable to match, sometimes causing cracks.
> We do warranty all of our paint for a year, so if you purchased your bike less than a year ago, ask your dealer to file another claim.
> *They don't address my concern that it is where the BB and chainstay are joined*. If I read btwn the lines - S.O.L. until they see more of a crack (aka crash test dummy). I also heard that TREK monitors some of these Forums - I hope they see it as I am willing to share my woes with the cycling community.


GD, this is precisely where these "paint cracks" appear. I would be more concerned if the paint crack was mid tube somewhere and not at a junction.
The lugs do not flex nearly as much as the tubes do. As a result of this, the paint which transitions this area is subject to movement along one line, then an abrupt lack of movement at the lug junction. 
While I am not certain, I think Trek has started to use a better (more elastic) paint or a better paint process, or a different sort of tube to lug junction (step tapered) to address the issues that you are seeing on your frame. 

FWIW, On my early '08 Madone I had these paint cracks on both chain stays, the seat tube where it joins the BB lug, and the down tube where it joins the head tube lug. I put many thousands of miles on it with these "cracks" and was not concerned.

This is a pretty common issue with Carbon frames, especially the superlight ones with rigid lugs and deminimus paint.

Again, I would not hesitate to ride this frame.

Now since you have your answer from Trek, I would clean that area and lightly sand with 1200grit wet paper just to get the flaking clear coat smooth. Clean it again to rinse the sanding debris, let dry, then use some clear nail polish to coat and protect it.

Good luck
zac


----------



## KBeth (Mar 23, 2008)

*same issue here 2008 Madone Crack*

I have the same problem maybe on a bigger scale and have not gone in yet to show my local dealer so lets see what they say as you can see from my pic this is for sure near the lug area and the crack (probably just paint ..is growing and trying to go all around the tube.. at least I hope its just a paint crack ..but sheesh this is getting bigger and unsightly and this bike is about 1 and 1/2 years now less than 5000 miles


----------



## graveldog (Aug 5, 2008)

The frame paint warranty is one year. Anyway- you are right that the concern is that it is in the BB lug area. The Trek rep didn't acknowledge my concerns regarding the same area where the BB and Chain stay are joined. My claim for frame replacement was rejected 
I told them that my bike was never crashed and I do push my bike hard on our group rides - especially on the sprints. I no longer trust the bike, as it has a question mark, if the frame has been compromised (?)- feel it is only good for casual rides but not all out major downhill accelerations at 78km (50mph) nor sprints. I told Trek that I am selling the bike - their response - sorry to hear good luck. I cleaned up the bike to post - noticed the rear wheel rim has 4 cracks near the spoke hole (eyelets). I immediately contacted the Trek Rep --- he said it will be replaced (Bontrager parts 5 yrs warranty). They indicated that they have seen this on other Race Lite Rims and have corrected the problem. I have been a loyal Trek fan over the past 12 years and on my 5th Trek - that did not count for anything since Trek has become bigger than their US Postal / Discovery / Astana reputation.


----------



## tbb001 (Oct 1, 2007)

graveldog said:


> I have been a loyal Trek fan over the past 12 years and on my 5th Trek - that did not count for anything since Trek has become bigger than their US Postal / Discovery / Astana reputation.


:cryin:


----------



## KBeth (Mar 23, 2008)

Ok here is an update on my crack shown above on the down tube and take note gravel .. took the bike to my LBS to peek at this and they immed took pictures and sent them to Trek where they made the call right away to replace the frame - wow what service and this is why I love Trek and my LBS - I really think it comes down to both but anyhow I hope the frame color is about the same as I wanted to be black so its about the same


----------



## graveldog (Aug 5, 2008)

Kbeth congratulations on passing the warranty review and getting a replacement frame. If you look back 4weeks on this forum string of entries you will see my picture and the crack. The local Trek rep looked at my bike - rejected replacement. I pursued TREK customer service (HQ wisconsin) they reviewed my pic. My main argument is the it is a crack where the BB and chain stay is joined. Trek avoided any comment on the joinery area - only to comment that it is a paint defect  The customer service also rejected replacement - "keep an eye on it". The bike will be cleaned ready for sale - I no longer confident in pushing the bike on my group rides + the sprint. I am a long time Trek owner on my 5th TREK bike in 12 years. I guess I am not so lucky on my claim (?).


----------



## atown117 (Dec 1, 2008)

Sorry to say this, but give it up it's a paint frame crack. I would assume Trek knows what their talking about when they say it doesn't effect the integrity of the frame. You've posted pretty much the same post multiple times... It's time to get over it.


----------



## graveldog (Aug 5, 2008)

Okay it's for sale - you want it? it's a 54cm. Compassion / empathy you don't have atown117.


----------



## acuracing (May 13, 2009)

graveldog, sorry to hear it ended up like this. Unfortunately, it sounds to me like you really wanted them to listen to you and have things only end up your way but when they provided their technical expertise to the issue, their reply wasn't what you had wanted to hear.

In any case, please disclose the paint crack to the future purchaser so they can shrug it off and just ride the bike.


----------



## atown117 (Dec 1, 2008)

graveldog said:


> Okay it's for sale - you want it? it's a 54cm. Compassion / empathy you don't have atown117.


Wrong size anyways. As well as the fact my new madone should be here next week. 

I do feel sorry that this happened to you. I would not want it to happen to anyone. But at some point you have to get over it and stop complaining.


----------



## herbn (Aug 22, 2009)

I looked here to check on news, i just heard today that on a wed ride someone on a topend trek had a catastrophic frame failure, he wasn't a fast racer/competitiive type,just on a mellow wed recovery ride.It happened at about 13 mph fast enough to f you up.LBS is bicycle workshop ,tenafly nj,i heard the owner was on the ride when it happened.


----------



## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

novamega said:


> I also have a 6.5 but in pro version, and have not noticed any cracking....Dont worry TREK will take care of the pboblem on your bike...Thats why I buy only TREK BIKES>>>>Sorry that had to happen to you..


R Treks good bykes?


----------



## charlieboy (Sep 10, 2003)

*paint cracks vs 'real' frame cracks*

see picture here of madone frame modules and you can see where likely paint cracks will appear. cracks away from the surface joining poit are likely more serious hence kbeth's experience of immediate frame replacement

http://www.velonews.com/photo/97396


----------



## DrSeuss (Sep 24, 2009)

GD - I definitely feel sorry that you are going through all this, but it really looks like a paint crack, like mentioned earlier that's where the lugs are, that's where the paint is going to crack. If the frame was cracked it would creek something awful. My teammate cracked his System6 during a race, the creeking was rediculous, right in the bottom bracket area where the aluminum and carbon was lugged together. He still sprinted in the finish and the frame didn't fail. Also, if it were the frame, you would see carbon dust from the frame rubbing together.

If you are not going to ride that bike, I'd be happy to take that frame off your hands for cheap, I ride a 56 but could make that frame work. Seriously, if you are not going to ride it I would buy it for the right price.


----------



## ericjacobsen3 (Apr 27, 2007)

*My take*

OK, I have three credentials that may (or may not) make my comments relevant: I am a composites engineer and a former bike engineer AND it just so happens that a couple weeks ago Trek warrantied my 14 year old OCLV LeMond that had a real carbon fatigue crack at the BB away from a joint -they replaced with no questions asked except what my frame size was! I did not even know anyone at the shop and it was not the shop where I bought it. To top it all off, in 1996 the OCLV frames only had a 5 year warranty!

Note my frame had all the typical of the era hairline cracks around each seam -this was only glue more elastic than the paint and never failed. I also had a tire groove worn in about 1mm into the inside of one chainstay. None of these areas are what cracked after 14 years and 40,000 miles. My frame just cracked halfway across the bb on the bottom through carbon. Perhaps there was a wrinkled layer inside.

So, I of course from my admittedly rosy position on my new Madone am inclined to give Trek the benefit of the doubt. it sounds and looks like this may just be a gap or groove from lack of fill on the original finishing. Try looking at the area more closely and see if the paint ramps into any part of the groove/trench/crack. If so, it is a finishing issue and not a crack at all -nothing to worry about.

Think of it this way: would a real crack be able to appear that wide without a hairline extending further across the stay? Probably not from what I can see. Finally, frames are pretty redundant structures and will get wiggly or noisy before failing. You can even mark the end of your crack and look for growth.

So, if the appearance is as I am describing, go ride the hell out of the thing and enjoy your great bike.


----------

