# Soft tisuue damage



## sportschicfla (Apr 8, 2007)

I have been an avid rider twice in my life. Was riding int eh late 80's and through the mid 90's. Never had any saddle issues. Use to ride the flite when it came out and loved it. Got back into cycling again 6 yrs ago after a number of years off and have not been able to find a comfortable saddle since. I have ridden several Terry's (butterfly, liberator, falcon x, damelsfly), fizik (pave), Serfas, WTB (several including the Deva), just to name a few and have yet to find one that I am comfortable on. This has caused soft tissue damage where one side of me looks like it is swollen but unfortunately it is permenant. I have had my gyno examine me and she is not concerned about the permenant swelling but I have yet to be able to find a saddle that works. I know that some times the problem can be the fit and I waiting to receive my custom Serotta as I tend to not fit on most standard bikes due to my longer torso. Maybe this will correct some of my issue but I still need a saddle that I can tolerate. Not sure if I really need the center split or not and which will be better due to my condition.:cryin: :mad2: 

Anyone else ever run into this problem? Any suggestions for saddles? Anyone interested in buying some slightly used saddles.


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## Slim Chance (Feb 8, 2005)

*Perhaps*

Perhaps it's not the saddle. It could be something as simple as finding the correct saddle height. If your seat were to high, it might cause you to rock in the saddle and ride off-center and perhaps put undue stress on one side of your body. Your fitter should be able to determine this in just a few minutes. Good luck.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

sportschicfla said:


> I have been an avid rider twice in my life. Was riding int eh late 80's and through the mid 90's. Never had any saddle issues. Use to ride the flite when it came out and loved it. Got back into cycling again 6 yrs ago after a number of years off and have not been able to find a comfortable saddle since. I have riden several Terry's (butterfly, liberator, falcon x, damelsfly), fizik (pave), Serfas, WTB (several including the Deva), just to name a few and have yet to find one that I am comfortable on. This has caused soft tissue damage where one side of me looks like it is swollen but unfortunately it is permenant. I have had my gyno examine me and she is not concerned about the permenant swelling but I have yet to be able to find a saddle that works. I know that some times the problem can be the fit and I waiting to receive my custom Serotta as I tend to not fit on most standard bikes due to my longer torso. Maybe this will correct some of my issue but I still need a saddle that I can tolerate. Not sure if I really need the center split or not and which will be better due to my condition.:cryin: :mad2:
> 
> Anyone else ever run into this problem? Any suggestions for saddles? Anyone interested in buying some slightly used saddles.


I'm surprised your doctor isn't interested in permanent swelling. Unless she can explain to you exactly why it isn't a problem you might consider a second opinion. 

Have you tried a gel cover over the saddle? Terry makes a good one with a cutout that doesn't have too much padding. Have you considered that it might be your shorts? Any seams in the wrong place, bad chamois, etc.? You might want to try a Specialized "body glove" mountain bike type saddle- I don't know their line, but a couple down from a racing saddle, one with a bit more padding. It's better to have a saddle that isn't hurting you rather than one that looks cool.


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## sportschicfla (Apr 8, 2007)

I have been fit properly several times on my current frame and will be so on my new frame. So I don't think it is the fit.

The reason she isn't concerned about the swelling is the area is now filled with tissue and will not change as it has been this way now for over a year.

Gel saddles tend to be too swishy for me so I am still looking for other options.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

sportschicfla said:


> I have been fit properly several times on my current frame and will be so on my new frame. So I don't think it is the fit.
> 
> The reason she isn't concerned about the swelling is the area is now filled with tissue and will not change as it has been this way now for over a year.
> 
> Gel saddles tend to be too swishy for me so I am still looking for other options.


Are we talking about lymphoedema here? I'm not a doctor, but my father had lymphoedema, and it can be treated. He had a severe case, one leg nearly twice the size of the other, and rock hard. He went to a lymphoedema clinic associated with a hospital (fairly new in the U.S., but they've been around for decades in Europe) and they were able to work wonders- his calve was returned to normal, and his thigh, while still larger than normal, was much reduced in size and soft and flesh-like again. The treatment requires some commitment, though. It's not a magic pill. It's a series of massages that soften the hardened tissue and channel fluid into the lymph system. Since his lymph system was damaged due to cancer surgery and radiation, it did have to be periodically repeated. 

The reason I mentioned the Terry gel cover specifically is that it's not as plush as some of the others. There's also the Mr. Flitie which is even thinner, but it has no cut-out, and I was unable to get that one on over my Specialized Avatar.


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## hollymight (May 25, 2007)

*Koobi*

I have the thing for you! Go to koobi.com. They have the best seats. You have to try them. They are made so that you sit on your butt bones not on the soft tissue. They have women specific styles as well. I have tried 3 of their seats. The Classic is, in my opinion the most comfortable if you need ample releif in the soft tissue areas. All three seats that I have tried ( the Classic, the Xenon, and the Enduro) all work well though. I'll bet that this will do the trick for you!


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

This is the first I've ever heard of permanent tissue damage from a bike seat, and although I mean no disrespect, I am skeptical. Anatomy is a funny thing, and not everyone is symmetrical to begin with. "Swelling" which then becomes "permanent" by "filling in with tissue" just doesn't make conceptual sense to me. 

There's no right answer on saddles. You've tried a lot of the best on the market without success, so if I were you I'd try a firm leather retro saddle that requires a break-in period (Brooks). It's really a different genre than your previous efforts, so I'd start there.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

JayTee said:


> This is the first I've ever heard of permanent tissue damage from a bike seat, and although I mean no disrespect, I am skeptical. Anatomy is a funny thing, and not everyone is symmetrical to begin with. "Swelling" which then becomes "permanent" by "filling in with tissue" just doesn't make conceptual sense to me.
> 
> There's no right answer on saddles. You've tried a lot of the best on the market without success, so if I were you I'd try a firm leather retro saddle that requires a break-in period (Brooks). It's really a different genre than your previous efforts, so I'd start there.


"Permanent swelling" really is a textbook "worst case" lymphoedema result. (Edit: I don't know if there are other causes, which is why I asked.) The hardening generally doesn't happen unless there's no place for the fluid to go, which can happen through genetics (not enough lymph glands) or due to damage to the lymph system- usually intentionally done near a cancer site to prevent spread. For decades it was thought un-treatable (after my father developed it he was told by numerous doctors (back in the late 90s) there was nothing that could be done), then a new doctor recommended a "lymphoedema clinic" which got good results, described above.


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

My response was to the OP, not your discussion of your father. It isn't possible that what is described here is lympoedema so that's really neither here nor there, I don't think.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

JayTee said:


> It isn't possible that what is described here is lympoedema...


Your email diagnostic capabilities far exceed my own  

Also, I'm sorry if my reply offended you. If it's any conciliation, it was intended as a normal conversation not necessarily for your benefit, but in case the OP or anyone else interested was reading. Please feel free not to read my posts, even if addressed to you.


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## sportschicfla (Apr 8, 2007)

The reality of it is a couple of years ago I went in for my annual exam and my gyno noticed the swelling. I told her it was probably just from me getting back into cycling. I noticed the swelling didn't go down after I had been back biking for a while. When I went for my next exam she examined the swelling closer and was not concerned. All I can tell you is what she told me. I am going for another visit next month and will ask her about lymphoedema but I must say I can't imagine a prescription for a massage of my soft tissue.


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

???? Uh, no, I wasn't offended or anything else. I assume you had thought I was speakng to your lymphodema story, which I wasn't. It was threaded to my post is all.

It isn't about "email [sic] diagnosis." It is that lymphodema is a lymphatic condition affecting large areas (almost always one or more extremity) and producing a rock hardness in the affected tissue. It is VERY dramatic. A swelling on one side of the female genital area is quite unlikely (I'd hazard impossible) to be lymphodema. I thought you had a story that was important to you and would never discourage you from telling it; my only point was that in THIS thread, it was a bum steer.


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## hollymight (May 25, 2007)

*try another seat*

Of all the suggestions I've heard, I'd have to go with the massage of your soft tissue.:idea:  :thumbsup: :blush2: 

But really, try the koobi seat. I have had soft tissue issues and it helped. The classic is only $50.00 and it certainly couldn't hurt.


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## kaotikgrl (Dec 14, 2006)

.....


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## mgibbons19 (May 25, 2005)

sportschicfla said:


> ... I am going for another visit next month and will ask her about lymphoedema but I must say I can't imagine a prescription for a massage of my soft tissue.


That could be either the best job in the world, or the worst.


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## sportschicfla (Apr 8, 2007)

Well the new bike is set to ship on the 16th so by the end of the month I will have a custom fit bike. Maybe I will have better luck with that. I have tried moving the saddle fore and aft, leveling it, tilting it slightly up (just in case that might work) with no luck.

I will keep you posted once the new bike comes in....


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## Shannon K (Apr 25, 2007)

JayTee said:


> ???? Uh, no, I wasn't offended or anything else. I assume you had thought I was speakng to your lymphodema story, which I wasn't. It was threaded to my post is all.
> 
> It isn't about "email [sic] diagnosis." It is that lymphodema is a lymphatic condition affecting large areas (almost always one or more extremity) and producing a rock hardness in the affected tissue. It is VERY dramatic. A swelling on one side of the female genital area is quite unlikely (I'd hazard impossible) to be lymphodema. I thought you had a story that was important to you and would never discourage you from telling it; my only point was that in THIS thread, it was a bum steer.


You are a prickly one aren't you, JT!  

While it's not an email (which by the way does not require a [sic]  since "email" is the most common and accepted spelling) diagnosis, it's certainly diagnosis by forum which is dangerous at best.

Regarding your swelling, I'd seek a second opinion.

Regarding your saddle I'd try this saddle: 










And it comes in a pretty pink!










https://www.blackwellresearch.com/p_seats.htm
https://www.blackwellresearch.com/ism_seats.htm

It's unusual but has worked wonders for many people, both men and women, since it's designed to support the sit bones (ischial tuberosities - the two pressure points you feel when sit on something flat and hard) and take the pressure off the soft tissues. :thumbsup:


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

sportschicfla said:


> Well the new bike is set to ship on the 16th so by the end of the month I will have a custom fit bike. Maybe I will have better luck with that. I have tried moving the saddle fore and aft, leveling it, tilting it slightly up (just in case that might work) with no luck.
> 
> I will keep you posted once the new bike comes in....


This is the Serotta, right? Definitely post some pics, please.


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## enki42ea (Apr 11, 2005)

JayTee said:


> ???? Uh, no, I wasn't offended or anything else. I assume you had thought I was speakng to your lymphodema story, which I wasn't. It was threaded to my post is all.
> 
> It isn't about "email [sic] diagnosis." It is that lymphodema is a lymphatic condition affecting large areas (almost always one or more extremity) and producing a rock hardness in the affected tissue. It is VERY dramatic. A swelling on one side of the female genital area is quite unlikely (I'd hazard impossible) to be lymphodema. I thought you had a story that was important to you and would never discourage you from telling it; my only point was that in THIS thread, it was a bum steer.


Couldn't two different root causes of swelling cause the same end result if the swelling doesn't go down?


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## *Dude* (Feb 26, 2004)

Try the Saddleco Flow... http://www.saddleco.com/flowmain.html or the Tioga Spyder Saddle


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## sportschicfla (Apr 8, 2007)

Yes it is a Serotta. I will post pics once it is in my paws.


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## ddanie49 (Jul 7, 2007)

I am glad to see this post. I thought I was the only one who had soft tissue damage. It hurts to pee, sit down, and I noticed chafing on the inside flaps of genitalia.Ouch! It makes me not want to ride longer than 20 miles. It also hurts while I am going short distances and am constantly moving in my saddle to find a more comfortable fit. I have a aliante sport on a cannondale synapse. I do not know much about saddles, other than this is the saddle the bike came with. 

I thought about getting a saddle with a cut out. Has anyone had this problem with a cut out saddle? I fear that my problem is that I have a racing saddle and I will not be able to find another saddle with the "racing" component without going to something bulkier. Any suggestions on comfortable racing saddles. Thanks.


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## lovetoride (Feb 11, 2003)

*Chaffing and rawness?*

I also had the problem for months and discovered the perfect solution! Although not obvious at the time, what was causing the problem was the odd stray hair tuft getting caught and then rubbing for hours. An occassional mild pruning in the nether regions resolved the problem - no need to shave or close trim but just cut back the long ones enough to prevent the longer hairs getting caught.

I was at the stage where I would cry in the shower after a ride from the burning pain. I can now ride 8 hours on back-to-back days with no problems. It is worth a try if chaffing is on the internal flesh.

I suggested this to some riding friends when they mentioned they had problems. It was lovely to see the smiles on their faces a few weeks later  

All the best.


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## snapdragen (Jan 28, 2004)

ddanie49 said:


> Any suggestions on comfortable racing saddles. Thanks.


http://dev.terrybicycles.com/saddles/product.html?idc=ac542610

The Zero X and the Falcon X get good reviews from friends.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

ddanie49 said:


> I am glad to see this post. I thought I was the only one who had soft tissue damage. It hurts to pee, sit down, and I noticed chafing on the inside flaps of genitalia.Ouch! It makes me not want to ride longer than 20 miles. It also hurts while I am going short distances and am constantly moving in my saddle to find a more comfortable fit. I have a aliante sport on a cannondale synapse. I do not know much about saddles, other than this is the saddle the bike came with.
> 
> I thought about getting a saddle with a cut out. Has anyone had this problem with a cut out saddle? I fear that my problem is that I have a racing saddle and I will not be able to find another saddle with the "racing" component without going to something bulkier. Any suggestions on comfortable racing saddles. Thanks.


Have you gotten fitted professionally? Also, have you tried tipping the saddle nose down slightly or raising your bars?


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## Becky (Jun 15, 2004)

My favorite saddle has always been the Avocet O2 40W. It's wider in the back than most "racing" saddles, and has a (covered) cut out in the center, but is still lightweight and pretty firm. I'm actually looking for another one right now- anyone have one they'd like to sell?


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

ditto to the hair trim... they are coarse and in the wrong place a source of friction. Nothing radical, just short and tidy with some small scissors.

As for saddles, I like the Terry Butterfly and if you want something even racier, the Terry Zero. No right answer on saddles, of course, but nothing wrong with starting out checking the 4-5 models that dominate the market. Check the "which saddle" threads in this forum for that discussion.


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## sportschicfla (Apr 8, 2007)

I wish my solutions was as easy as trimming hair but having had laser hair removal, this isn't an issue for me. I have tried both the butterfly and the falcon but to no avail on my old bike. Just got the new bike in and have been professionally fitted and have gone back to try some of my old saddles to see if it was my old bike. I have been told I tend to ride a European style and tend to ride towards the back of the saddle. 

I will continue on my quest for answers and will get pics of the new bike up soon....


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

Yep, that's me. In my 9 years on the forum I'm sure that's my reputation ... "prickly."



PS -- The "[sic]" after the word "email" didn't relate to spelling. It is that the diagnosis was via the 'net but didn't involve email. Thanks for comin' by to take a swipe at me, though. That's always helpful.


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## sportschicfla (Apr 8, 2007)

*LOVE the ride*

Got the new bike and it is awesome. I love it. I am riding 1 -2 mph faster and oh my gosh I am actually comfortable on the bike with of course the exception of the perfect saddle. I will continue that hunt now that I have the perfect bike.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Alright! Great bike. Is it Ti/Carbon?


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## sportschicfla (Apr 8, 2007)

Why yes it is....I am not overly fond of raw Ti so I had most of it painted.


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