# Flip stem up with less spacers or down with more?



## fueledbymetal (Sep 24, 2007)

The engineer in me thinks keeping the stem flipped up with fewer spacers is the lightest & most rigid approach, but a roadie friend of mine said it's better to flip the stem down but use more spacers for a given reach. With the stem up I'm using 25mm of spacers. Is there a "right" answer in my case?


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## vladvm (May 4, 2010)

whatever fits you. mind the max spacer under stem limit. flip up if gut is big, flip down if you can palm the floor...


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## redlude97 (Jun 29, 2010)

Are you planning on cutting the extra steerer tube?


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## Mr Evil (Aug 12, 2011)

Stem up will indeed be lighter, but almost everyone goes with stem down because it looks better. The difference isn't worth worrying about in either case.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

fueledbymetal said:


> The engineer in me thinks keeping the stem flipped up with fewer spacers is the lightest & most rigid approach, but a roadie friend of mine said it's better to flip the stem down but use more spacers for a given reach. With the stem up I'm using 25mm of spacers. Is there a "right" answer in my case?


I am going to come across as an ass here but if you have to run that much spacers with the stem flipped up then the frame geometry does not suit you and you need a frame with a taller stack.
If you try to flip the stem down you will possibly end up with 35 - 40mm of spacers which is far too much IMO.


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2011)

fueledbymetal said:


> The engineer in me thinks keeping the stem flipped up with fewer spacers is the lightest & most rigid approach, but a roadie friend of mine said it's better to flip the stem down but use more spacers for a given reach. With the stem up I'm using 25mm of spacers. Is there a "right" answer in my case?


I agree with the "engineer in me" on this matter, myself (which is probably why I look like a complete Fred out on the road...). Stem up, shorter spacer stack. The typical steerer/fork combo that looks like a giant "7" always looked weird to me on any bike that doesn't have the handlebars slammed right against the headtube. 

I have 15mm of spacer +6 degree, steerer cut so that there is room for one 5mm spacer above the stem. I think this looks better than 36mm of spacers and -6 degree, which would produce an identical Handlebar position. It feels like I'd be a lot less likely to impale myself in a crash with a cut steerer tube and rising stem.



> I am going to come across as an ass here but if you have to run that much spacers with the stem flipped up then the frame geometry does not suit you and you need a frame with a taller stack.
> If you try to flip the stem down you will possibly end up with 35 - 40mm of spacers which is far too much IMO.


In my case, I couldn't find an OEM bike with a correct headtube height and top-tube length for me that didn't have some other kind of fit or handling drawback. I would ideally want something like 55cm frame with a 52-53cm effective top tube. (I'm running a 52cm frame w/ 53 ETT)

Only things I saw that came close were hybrid/MTB style frames (but with drop bars) with severely sloping top tubes. But those usually also had longer wheelbases, and due to the sloping top-tube, did not let me to tuck my knees against the frame when descending or cornering hard.


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## willieboy (Nov 27, 2010)

For me it's been a progression. I started with my stem at the top and have slowly worked my way to one spacer left. At some point I will take out the last spacer and will have the big stack on top. While I think it looks little off in that configuration, It will be the last adjustment before I "flip the stem" and put some spacers back under it. The other side of this is the reach calculation. When I flip the stem over, the reach will be slightly longer. Being new to the sport (13 months) I have found these small adjustments over time to be beneficial to the overall progression of a more aero position while staying in my flexibility zone. This coming from a 52 year old man who couldn't touch his toes a year ago


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Flipped up with fewer spacers vs. flipped down with more is a wash if you only change the spacer count by whatever it takes to keep the handlebar in the same place.

Imagine a line running through the handlebar clamp and parallel to the steer tube. Draw another line perpendicular to the steer tube and straight through the handlebar clamp. You can think of the stem as the one leg of an isosceles triangle with the second line as the altitude. If you were to flip the stem around and adjust the spacers by the right amount, the altitude would stay the same. You're just putting the stem on the other leg of the triangle.

Your roadie friend could brush up on his trig. Or he just doesn't want you to make him look unfashionable.


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## willieboy (Nov 27, 2010)

I should have paid better attention in school


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

LOL. For a while, I had myself convinced that flipped up would have less reach than flipped down if I arranged the spacers to match the drop. And then it occurred to me that that didn't make sense. Flipped down usually has more reach because it usually means that the handlebar is also further down on its "track." Which is a great example of correlation not being causation.


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## SlowMover (Jun 6, 2010)

AndrwSwitch said:


> LOL. For a while, I had myself convinced that flipped up would have less reach than flipped down if I arranged the spacers to match the drop. And then it occurred to me that that didn't make sense. Flipped down usually has more reach because it usually means that the handlebar is also further down on its "track." Which is a great example of correlation not being causation.


For future use....great resource:
Stem Chart


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Or: Bike Stem Calculator - Brightspoke


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## T0mi (Mar 2, 2011)

fueledbymetal said:


> The engineer in me thinks keeping the stem flipped up with fewer spacers is the lightest & most rigid approach, but a roadie friend of mine said it's better to flip the stem down but use more spacers for a given reach. With the stem up I'm using 25mm of spacers. Is there a "right" answer in my case?


Don't be a coward, slam that stem and flip it down.


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## thaipinoy1 (Jul 16, 2010)

T0mi said:


> Don't be a coward, slam that stem and flip it down.


LoL..all or nothing baby!!:thumbsup:


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2011)

thaipinoy1 said:


> LoL..all or nothing baby!!:thumbsup:


*all*









*nothing*


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

That S5 photo screams NUTS!


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

PhotonFreak said:


> *all*
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> 
> 
> ...



both are hideous and fugly...wtf is wrong with people?


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

kbwh said:


> That S5 photo screams NUTS!


The guy who rides that isn't going to have any nuts. His would have to be gone to ride in that position. That S5 certainly looks to small for it's rider


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## thaipinoy1 (Jul 16, 2010)

Damn, I'd like to see what the owners of these bikes look like while riding these rigs!..lol


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## tystevens (Jul 10, 2008)

PhotonFreak said:


> *all*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, great pics. I wonder what it would feel like to ride that Cervelo? Like being in a human wheelbarrow race (remember 6th grade!) perhaps?


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## Wadl (Oct 8, 2011)

that Cervélo, is someone riding that for real or it was like that just for the pic ??


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2011)

Wadl said:


> that Cervélo, is someone riding that for real or it was like that just for the pic ??


The Kuota photo is from a Craigslist ad -- likely from some dude who recently attempted a triathlon on a frame WAY too small for him.

I'm guessing the Cervelo was a joke meant to poke fun at the whole "road bike glamour shot" routine. I found that photo at this blog. They were sad because the chain was in the small ring for the photo


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

S5 has to be a joke photo, like this one:










I myself run slammed on a 14.5cm headtube, -17 degree stem. Chopped the steerer and got the FD setup since the pic.


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## Zeekster64 (Dec 23, 2010)

I like stem down. I have a 5 degree stem so even when it's flipped down, it's not too low. It also looks better IMO.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Ventruck said:


> I myself run slammed on a 14.5cm headtube, -17 degree stem. Chopped the steerer and got the FD setup since the pic.


Please tell me you're not riding with that much exposed seat tube.

Or that you have record-breaking long arms.


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2011)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Please tell me you're not riding with that much exposed seat tube.
> 
> Or that you have record-breaking long arms.


Agreed (more with the latter). I could see someone w/ long arms/upper body benefiting from a setup like that. I'm the opposite extreme. short (5'6") w/ long legs (32" inseam), an short torso(23 1/2") 

If desired I can get as low as possible while still pedaling (knees hitting chest on each stroke) when in the drops (where I ride most of the time) with a flipped-up stem and fairly little bar drop. Although I'm . While I may lower the bars further on my bike****, It's very unlikely I will completely "slam" the stem (read: buying a -17 degree stem and removing all spacers) as doing so would make the hoods position more aerodynamic but at the same time make the drops much more difficult to reach, so that on average there would likely be no difference in my aerodynamics as I'd almost never use the drops...






**** Note: I'm aware many will say I bought a bike that isn't suitable for me w/ a head tube that was too short, and that I should have bought a bike in a shop instead of online. Surprisingly this setup fits me singificantly better than anything I test-rode locally --I visited several shops when searching for road bikes and found that most were out of stock in appropriate frames within my budget. Part of the reason I decided to buy a cheaper road bike online to start things out was I figured I'd have a better idea what I want after a year of serious riding. At that time, I'll demote my current road bike to "commuter" status, then demote my commuter (a flat-bar hybrid bike) to guest bike/ bad weather bike status.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

nmnmnm


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Please tell me you're not riding with that much exposed seat tube.
> 
> Or that you have record-breaking long arms.


Sorry "I'm riding with that much exposed seat tube(/post)".

Arms are a bit on the long side, but nothing extraordinary. The bike is surely rideable for me, most comfortable at that.

Salsa: <3.


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