# Stan's tubeless alpha 340 wheelset for racing?



## bikeskirun (Sep 1, 2009)

Hi all,

I'm considering these as an all-around wheelset for training and racing (Crits and road). I'm a masters rider (51!) at 155 pounds, so I'm not a masher. I've heard these wheels are a little flexy, but with 28 rear/ 24 front spokes I think I'd be OK. Any experience or opinions? Thanks!


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## Wyker (Aug 27, 2010)

Well I'm Probly getting a pair In a month or so, so I will tell you then. And if you want them stiffer you can custom build them with some hub with bigger flanges. But I hear there pretty stiff...


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## azbiker (Oct 10, 2004)

i've been running the 340's for 3 months now.....training daily on them.....they are very stiff and responsive. It has alot to do with the build though.....
They were laced up by Dave at Speeddream Wheels, we used the Alchemy ELF and ORC Hubset with Sapim CX Ray Spokes everywhere but the rear drive side which we used Sapim DB spokes...18 spoke radialy laced front and a 28 spoke 2x non drive 3x drive side rear. The wheelset is very light (1265 grams) but not flexy at all, which I credit the hubset and the build to...
This has been the best wheelset I've ever owned so far....and I've owned alot, Reynolds Assaults/Attacks, Easton EC90sl carbon clichers/EC90 aero tubulars/EA90 Aero clinchers, Mavic Ksyrium Es, Bontrager xxx lites, Rolf Vectors, and many other customs.....
For reference I'm 165 lbs.....and log approx 250 miles per week.....
Hope this helps you out with your decision.....


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## bikeskirun (Sep 1, 2009)

Thanks, azrider! That's just the kind of info I needed.


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## lawr (Sep 5, 2007)

azbiker said:


> i've been running the 340's for 3 months now.....training daily on them.....they are very stiff and responsive. It has alot to do with the build though.....
> They were laced up by Dave at Speeddream Wheels, we used the Alchemy ELF and ORC Hubset with Sapim CX Ray Spokes everywhere but the rear drive side which we used Sapim DB spokes...18 spoke radialy laced front and a 28 spoke 2x non drive 3x drive side rear. The wheelset is very light (1265 grams) but not flexy at all, which I credit the hubset and the build to...
> This has been the best wheelset I've ever owned so far....and I've owned alot, Reynolds Assaults/Attacks, Easton EC90sl carbon clichers/EC90 aero tubulars/EA90 Aero clinchers, Mavic Ksyrium Es, Bontrager xxx lites, Rolf Vectors, and many other customs.....
> For reference I'm 165 lbs.....and log approx 250 miles per week.....
> Hope this helps you out with your decision.....


Sounds good. I've been using Dura Ace 7850 C 24CL and been happy - and have been thinking of switching? How much did this cost you?


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## azbiker (Oct 10, 2004)

lawr said:


> Sounds good. I've been using Dura Ace 7850 C 24CL and been happy - and have been thinking of switching? How much did this cost you?



I paid $980 total for my setup (mainly due to the price of the Alchemy hubs).....I know alot are going to say that its too spendy for aluminum clinchers but they are the best wheels I have ever owned and I wouldn't change a thing....You could save some coin going with a less expensive hub but I don't know how much that will effect the overall stiffness of this wheelset. The setup I have accelerates like mad, if I decide its go time the light weight and stiffness definetely give me an edge when I jump....

If you are interested give Dave a call, he can guide you through a setup to meet the specifications (and budget) you are after....800-275-5031

I'm not affiliated with Dave in any way but can tell you he builds a great set of wheels....I have his wheels on my mountain and track bikes also.....


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## lawr (Sep 5, 2007)

Thanks. It doesn't sound like too much to me. I rode more than 12,000 Km's this year and appreciate a good set of wheels that are also trouble free.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

I've got a set of the Alpha 340 Comps w/ the ZTR hubs. 32r/28f seems fine for me and my 190lbs. Super easy to mount/seat my Spec SW Turbo tubeless tires, but not as easy as it was to mount tires on a set of the DuraAce tubeless wheels I have.


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## azbiker (Oct 10, 2004)

Mudge, I've been looking at the Specialized Turbo Tubeless Tires....How are they holding up for you? Decent mileage out of them? How is the puncture resistance? Noticeable difference in handling/rolling resistance from standard clinchers with tubes? Sorry for all the questions......


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

azbiker said:


> Mudge, I've been looking at the Specialized Turbo Tubeless Tires....How are they holding up for you? Decent mileage out of them? How is the puncture resistance? Noticeable difference in handling/rolling resistance from standard clinchers with tubes? Sorry for all the questions......


Can't really answer any of your questions, 'cept one. I've been riding my 'cross bike w/wide road tires and have my road bike on the trainer, didn't get more than a few hundred miles on the Turbos before switching to my winter setup. 

So, don't know how they'll hold up, can't estimate the mileage. I can say they didn't flat, but even with tubes I rarely flat. 

What I can say is that as far as handling and 'feel', they're great. For a "23mm" tire, they're pretty wide, wider than Intensive 25s. 

I've done one ride where I switched wheels mid-ride, going from the Turbos to a set of Conti GP4000s, and the difference was very noticeable, particularly in muting the chip seal buzz. 

Retail price is pretty steep, but if you can get a deal on 'em, they're absolutely worth a try.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

bikeskirun said:


> I've heard these wheels are a little flexy, but with 28 rear/ 24 front spokes I think I'd be OK. Any experience or opinions? Thanks!


The rims have better stiffness than you'd expect for the weight... the profile is good. The Velonews review that called them flexy was most likely due to the hubs.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

rruff said:


> The rims have better stiffness than you'd expect for the weight... the profile is good. The Velonews review that called them flexy was most likely due to the hubs.


IIRC, they tested the super-lightweight set w/ the low spoke count. Nobody in his right mind would take such a low profile rim and build it w/ that few spokes. The fact that those wheels don't just collapse speaks volumes about the rims.

It would be like building up an old set of Mavic GP330 tubular rims w/ 18 spokes and expecting them to be stiff. Madness, I tell you.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Not true... it is a much stiffer rim than the GL330 because of its cross section. I've been riding a set of XR200s (which is less stiff than the 340s) with Alchemy hubs in 20f and 28r and they've been fine. I'm going to build a set of the 340s for myself with the Alchemy hubs and I'm sure they will be ok too. My only concern is that the rim may not hold up... ie crack at the spoke holes eventually... but I'll have to see.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

rruff said:


> Not true... it is a much stiffer rim than the GL330 because of its cross section. I've been riding a set of XR200s (which is less stiff than the 340s) with Alchemy hubs in 20f and 28r and they've been fine. I'm going to build a set of the 340s for myself with the Alchemy hubs and I'm sure they will be ok too. My only concern is that the rim may not hold up... ie crack at the spoke holes eventually... but I'll have to see.


What's not true? That building the 340 rim up into a low spoke-count wheel would/should be expected to be a bit flimsy, whereas building it up w/ a more robust spoke count won't be, or that a GL330 built w/ 18 spokes f/r will be flimsy?


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## azbiker (Oct 10, 2004)

As stated earlier I'm running an 18 hole front...radially laced, no flex at all....
Again I believe this is due to the hubs (Alchemy) and the build of the wheel......
Two friends of mine have also ridden my wheelset and are very impressed with them, both are north of two hundred pounds and very strong riders, niether found any flex under hard sprinting accelerations or climbing.....just my .02...
Now as far as longevity of this front wheel.....time will tell, I'm hoping for two seasons out of it before the rim starts to show signs of cracking or whatever....but two seasons will be well over 20k miles and I feel that I have gotten my money out of them by then....


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

Not familiar with those hubs. Do they just have a really narrow flange width? Can't imagine how else they could affect wheel stiffness.


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## azbiker (Oct 10, 2004)

mudge said:


> Not familiar with those hubs. Do they just have a really narrow flange width? Can't imagine how else they could affect wheel stiffness.



They have the widest flange spacing on the market, so they help add stiffness to the wheel...They are revered to be the best no holds barred hubset on the market today...If you do a forum search you will find alot of info on them...Alchemy ELF (front) and ORC (rear). The front hub flanges are spaced so wide that if you laced it radially with the spokes head in the spoke would probably rub on your fork.....they are wide...the bearings are also placed furthest out in the hub body to aid in stiffness....

for a pic or two...
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=206800&highlight=alchemy


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Alchemy made the DS flange spacing as high as possible and higher than any other hub design, and the NDS flange is about the ideal spot too. High bearing capacity and stiff internal design. Best build specs of any hub you can get IMO. 

http://fairwheelbikes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=6940

And yes, you can't lace a GL330 with 18 spokes without it being a mess... the shallowness makes it very flimsy. The 340 is a much stiffer rim because it's a very roundish 20mm wide and 22mm tall, with a short bead hook.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

rruff said:


> Alchemy made the DS flange spacing as high as possible and higher than any other hub design, and the NDS flange is about the ideal spot too. High bearing capacity and stiff internal design. Best build specs of any hub you can get IMO.
> 
> http://fairwheelbikes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=6940
> 
> And yes, you can't lace a GL330 with 18 spokes without it being a mess... the shallowness makes it very flimsy. The 340 is a much stiffer rim because it's a very roundish 20mm wide and 22mm tall, with a short bead hook.


Do you always try to pick the fly poop out of the pepper?


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## AM999 (Jan 22, 2007)

If you are going to race on your tubeless wheelset you might want to get a set of IRC "Top Secret" tires. They will save ~ 10 watts over the next fastest rolling tire that I've tested which is the Hutchy Fusion 2. This is due to the use of natural rubber (latex) on the inside of the tire to form the pressure containing layer. All other tubeless tires that I know of use a relatively thick layer of butyl rubber. The "Top Secret" isn't available in the US last time I checked but IIRC they can be ordered from Japan.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

And in case anyone is wondering, you don't need to use tubeless tires with these rims.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

mudge said:


> Do you always try to pick the fly poop out of the pepper?


Sometimes... but I usually prefer to keep my fly poop and pepper in separate containers.


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## azbiker (Oct 10, 2004)

Alpha 340 update....a little over 6k miles on this wheelset and the rear Alpha 340 is cracked. Four non consecutive drive side nipple beds have cracked. Spoke tension is still uniforn throught the wheel and it is still perfectly true....just thought I would chime in and give a durability report....


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## FSonicSmith (Jan 2, 2003)

azbiker said:


> Alpha 340 update....a little over 6k miles on this wheelset and the rear Alpha 340 is cracked. Four non consecutive drive side nipple beds have cracked. Spoke tension is still uniforn throught the wheel and it is still perfectly true....just thought I would chime in and give a durability report....


Thanks much. But-isn't 6K miles out of very lightweight rim on a rear wheel fairly good? Depending on your weight, local roads, and use, it may be very favorable. My view is that all lightweight rims used on rear wheels eventually crack. The only issue is when, not if.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

FSonicSmith said:


> Thanks much. But-isn't 6K miles out of very lightweight rim on a rear wheel fairly good? Depending on your weight, local roads, and use, it may be very favorable. My view is that all lightweight rims used on rear wheels eventually crack. The only issue is when, not if.


Definitely shouldn't be the case. 6K miles really isn't that much, and it sounds like this may be the case of a defective rim. Just because a rim is on the lighter side doesn't mean that you necessarily have compromise durability. However this is the first problem I have heard of anyone having with the 340.


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## FSonicSmith (Jan 2, 2003)

Zen Cyclery said:


> Definitely shouldn't be the case. 6K miles really isn't that much, and it sounds like this may be the case of a defective rim. Just because a rim is on the lighter side doesn't mean that you necessarily have compromise durability. However this is the first problem I have heard of anyone having with the 340.


Well, I won't drop the name since Stan's might retaliate, but one of the guys at a well-known retailer told me the Alpha 340 would likely not hold up all that well and that they had experienced failures. I was considering the 340 for a recent wheel build. I ended up going with the considerably heavier DT465. Just the same, I still think 6,000 miles out of a sub-400 gram rim is fairly good. The old addage light, durable, cheap, pick any two comes to mind, but perhaps doesn't really apply to bike wheels just yet-maybe it should be light vs durable-pick one. No matter how much you are willing to spend, there is no rim made that is both incredibly light and incredibly durable (with the caveat that "incredibly" is subjective).


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## azbiker (Oct 10, 2004)

I'm not bashing them or anything....just thought I would give a report....so others may have more of an idea of what they might expect out of them...I agree that they are crazy light but stans also claims they are a cyclocross rim...I feel that I should have gotten at least a year out of them(11k + miles).


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Photos and details of the build would be appreciated.

All pulling spokes?
What spokes are used?
Tension?
# of spokes?
Rider weight?


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## m_s (Nov 20, 2007)

On the mountain side I have not heard great things about the build quality of the stans wheels. Though if you or someone else looks them over that's probably a non-issue.


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## azbiker (Oct 10, 2004)

rruff said:


> Photos and details of the build would be appreciated.
> 
> All pulling spokes?
> What spokes are used?
> ...



The wheel is already torn down and the rim is on its way to stans...so I have no pics, sorry...cracking was very small though. Yes, all pulling spokes....I do not know the tension off the top of my head, wheel was checked at the shop with a tension meter and they said that it was still uniform and within spec...

The build was.... Alchemy ELF and ORC Hubset with Sapim CX Ray Spokes everywhere but the rear drive side which we used Sapim DB (laser I think) spokes...18 spoke radialy laced front and a 28 spoke 2x non drive 3x drive side rear. The wheelset is very light at 1265 grams.

My weight fluctuates between 160-165 lbs....

Again, I'm not bashing the product, just thought I would post my results thus far....


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Thanks for the info.

Is it possible that you experienced corrosion at the nipple-rim interface?


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## azbiker (Oct 10, 2004)

rruff said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> Is it possible that you experienced corrosion at the nipple-rim interface?



othing that I could see...the wheel has never seen bad weather, I'm in AZ, if its raining usually I don't ride in it, thats why I live here. I'm real anal about keeping my bikes clean and running smoothly, I'm a shop mechanic and I feel that my bike represents my work....Once Stans checks it out I will let you know what they say...


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Thanks again! Corrosion is out then. Sorry to ask so many questions but since you are the first person who has reported any issues, it's helpful if we can try to figure this out. I've been very favorably impressed with the rims otherwise... they are straight, round, and pretty stiff for their weight. Stan probably won't be much help, since they will just see that there are cracks. 

For now I'd suggest not going over 100kg tension. I also bend the spokes just above the nipple to improve the line and chamfer the inside of the rim... not sure if that helps, but it wouldn't hurt.


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## azbiker (Oct 10, 2004)

rruff said:


> Thanks again! Corrosion is out then. Sorry to ask so many questions but since you are the first person who has reported any issues, it's helpful if we can try to figure this out. I've been very favorably impressed with the rims otherwise... they are straight, round, and pretty stiff for their weight. Stan probably won't be much help, since they will just see that there are cracks.
> 
> For now I'd suggest not going over 100kg tension. I also bend the spokes just above the nipple to improve the line and chamfer the inside of the rim... not sure if that helps, but it wouldn't hurt.



No worries, I totally understand...you guys build wheels for a living and its nice that you put forth so much interest and research in the products you use...

Thanks for the tips also...we will see how it all works out...


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## macming (Dec 2, 2004)

Any update? I just ordered a 32 hole Alpha 340 rims for a CK build meant for a few CX races.

Think I'll have better luck since 32 hole rims tend to be stronger?

Thanks,

Ming


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

MacMing- Definitely not a bad idea to air on the safe side of things when it comes to spoke count. Although I must say I was quite impressed with the rigidity provided with a 28h on that rim. Once it is up to tension it feels much more burly than a 360 gram hoop.


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## macming (Dec 2, 2004)

Zen Cyclery said:


> MacMing- Definitely not a bad idea to air on the safe side of things when it comes to spoke count. Although I must say I was quite impressed with the rigidity provided with a 28h on that rim. Once it is up to tension it feels much more burly than a 360 gram hoop.


Excellent!  I actually emailed Stan's and Rich got back to me stating the 32 hole will be a good fit.

I already have a set of Chris King classic hubs with 32 holes, so I have to stick with a 32 hole setup for this set. Either way, it's not too bad of an idea since CX will see a bit more abuse than a road wheelset.

About my Industry 9 build, I thought about it for a while, and decided the $$ spent on the carbon wheels are not really worth it at this point. I can pick up entire Reynolds wheelset from Bonktown for a great deal down the road if I ever feel the urge.

For the time being, I'm also considering getting a set of Alpha 340s for my Industry 9 build. They use 18/24 spoke configuration, and 2X spoke lacing. Think this configuration will be sturdy enough for purely road use? 

I'm 210 pounds, and have gotten away with a Dura Ace 7800 set for the past 4 years  Even if I break a Stan's rim, I can get a replacement relatively easily. On the plus side, they are MUCH cheaper than carbon rims :thumbsup: 

Thanks!

Ming


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

MacMing- Well, at 210, you would definitely be squeaking by with that spoke count. If your restricted to 18/24, you could always go with a rim that is just a tad heftier just to ensure that you won't have to deal with a broken hoop. Something like a Kinlin XR270 would add some gramage but it would definitely up the durability and make riding an 18/24 a bit more realistic.


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## macming (Dec 2, 2004)

Zen Cyclery said:


> MacMing- Well, at 210, you would definitely be squeaking by with that spoke count. If your restricted to 18/24, you could always go with a rim that is just a tad heftier just to ensure that you won't have to deal with a broken hoop. Something like a Kinlin XR270 would add some gramage but it would definitely up the durability and make riding an 18/24 a bit more realistic.


  That's what I was thinking too. Are there any good UST options that will support my weight?

I'm not too concerned about the overall wheelset weight.

Thanks,

Ming


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## twigseattle (Sep 10, 2009)

Shimano!!!
Dura Ace 7850 SL Scandium tubeless - under $1k
Dura Ace Carbon 7900 C24-TL tubeless around $1k
Ultegra 6700 tubeless $400-600

All of these are plenty robust, very smooth


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

rruff said:


> Thanks again! Corrosion is out then. Sorry to ask so many questions but since you are the first person who has reported any issues, it's helpful if we can try to figure this out. I've been very favorably impressed with the rims otherwise...


Really? On the MTB side, those rims are always having issues for years. That's why I stuck with heavier mavin Tubleess rims.


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## forchinit1 (Dec 31, 2013)

Have Powertap hubs (24f/28r) and wondering if Stans 340, AC 2218 or DT Switts 440 are the way to go? I'm 175# and 48yo and put < 100 miles/wk. Thoughts?




Zen Cyclery said:


> Definitely shouldn't be the case. 6K miles really isn't that much, and it sounds like this may be the case of a defective rim. Just because a rim is on the lighter side doesn't mean that you necessarily have compromise durability. However this is the first problem I have heard of anyone having with the 340.


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