# "Supplements" anyone?



## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

From a thread on another forum re. Buckley, a glimpse into your nearest "Anti-Aging Clinic:"

.5ml depo-test 200mg/ml 1x per week
.1ml HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - /arginine 6x per week
.2ml sermorelin 6x per week
.5mg arimidex 2x per week
25mg DHEA daily
25mg pregnenolone daily
5g d-ribose before training daily
500mg microhydrin 1x daily 

Competitive Cat 1 Masters Cyclist Supplement Questions


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Jeez. Someone needs to do some net detective work and get him a random test ASAP.


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

spade2you said:


> Jeez. Someone needs to do some net detective work and get him a random test ASAP.


He just got busted and sanctioned for four years.


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

Jesus, check out the reply on that thread. Friggin' masters (or anyone, I guess) asshats.


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

That wasn't really Buckley posting, was it? If nothing else I would have assumed that he was happy to use EPO and had years of experience.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

pedalbiker said:


> He just got busted and sanctioned for four years.


Hopefully he's the one. I'd imagine they should be testing masters nationals just in case.

By sheer coincidence, I have been thinking about posting something about these anti-aging clinics. They have been popping up around my area. A local racer I know had a doctor trying to convince him he had Low T. He got it rechecked somewhere else and it was fine.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Not Buckley. Probably a troll thread on the site.


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## flybywire99 (Sep 21, 2008)

I was researching some of the items he was prescribed and I can't figure out what the doctor is trying to accomplish. None of the drugs listed really have any affect on reducing the aging process. Also, why anyone would accept being prescribed all those compounds and not think that some or all could be banned PEDs.


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## rufus (Feb 3, 2004)

pedalbiker said:


> Jesus, check out the reply on that thread. Friggin' masters (or anyone, I guess) asshats.


I don't understand. Do masters champions get money? i mean, money big enough to justify all that doping? Or are these people so hard-up for status and attention that they'll drop countless thousands of bucks to achieve it?


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

I get that you're mocking the doper, but this particular argument always rubs me the wrong way.

Money doesn't justify doping.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

rufus said:


> I don't understand. Do masters champions get money? i mean, money big enough to justify all that doping? Or are these people so hard-up for status and attention that they'll drop countless thousands of bucks to achieve it?


Do you know how many guys in the US take steroids purely for aesthetics?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Local Hero said:


> Do you know how many guys in the US take steroids purely for aesthetics?


Like the guys at gyms looking at themselves in the mirror while curling?


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Been in Florida for year due to the ultra lax "regulation" there. Hence all the Florida "training camps".


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

JohnStonebarger said:


> I get that you're mocking the doper, but this particular argument always rubs me the wrong way.
> 
> Money doesn't justify doping.


that is his point. There is little to no $ in Masters cycling so the people that are doing it are mostly doing so to feed their egos


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> that is his point. There is little to no $ in Masters cycling so the people that are doing it are mostly doing so to feed their egos


I got that. Again. What rubs me the wrong way is that it suggests if there was more money in Master cycling it would justify doping. It wouldn't.

Is it okay to dope when there is money? Say, a mid-level pro? Or do they have to make big money like a star?

Better yet, is it okay that a huge number of high school idiots are doping (many with their coach's and parent's consent) because they think they have a shot at the NBA/NFL/MLB/Whatever? NO.

This isn't about money. It's about cheating. And money doesn't change it.


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

Sharapova was (is?) the richest female athlete in the world. It doesn't justify her doping.


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## rufus (Feb 3, 2004)

Nothing justifies doping. But if there's a paycheck waiting to be had by doing so, I can understand(no, understand is the wrong word, cause I don't understand. I can recognize why someone might think they would have to do it)

But without any sort of reward for doing so whatsoever, I just fail to see why anyone would see a need to do so, other than to feed their own ego.


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## rufus (Feb 3, 2004)

Local Hero said:


> Do you know how many guys in the US take steroids purely for aesthetics?


Narcissistic douchebags.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

JohnStonebarger said:


> Sharapova was (is?) the richest female athlete in the world. It doesn't justify her doping.


and she can't beat Venus Williams to save her life
speaks volumes
At least she had a financial incentive. It doesn't make it right but 'earning lots of money' is a better motivation than 'bragging rights'

risking once health to be the best Cat 2 Master seems the epitome of stupid


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

I just can't see greed ("a paycheck," "monetary incentive," etc) as somehow a redeeming motivation. 

Meanwhile, have you seen the adds for T online? Anti-aging clinics? Plenty of men use these "doping" products whether or not they participate in sports and with no thought of cashing in by doing so.

It's only cheating once you toe the line, and then many have trouble understanding why a legal drug prescribed by a doctor is not allowed. Whether they race for money or glory or pure enjoyment, it needs to be clear: it's not allowed because it's cheating.


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

In triathlon and running races -- truly participatory sports -- people argue that doping products are okay to use if you're not "in the money." The logic is "His doctor put him on T for his low levels, let him run anyway. He's not winning his age-group." Again, it's not about the money.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

JohnStonebarger said:


> I just can't see greed ("a paycheck," "monetary incentive," etc) as somehow a redeeming motivation.
> 
> Meanwhile, have you seen the adds for T online? Anti-aging clinics? Plenty of men use these "doping" products whether or not they participate in sports and with no thought of cashing in by doing so.
> 
> It's only cheating once you toe the line, and then many have trouble understanding why a legal drug prescribed by a doctor is not allowed. Whether they race for money or glory or pure enjoyment, it needs to be clear: it's not allowed because it's cheating.


yes, they advertise on sports radio where the hosts get all mad about athletes doping. "But hey, hit the Total T Clinic and feel like you're 20 again on your way home from work!"


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

rufus said:


> Nothing justifies doping. But if there's a paycheck waiting to be had by doing so, I can understand(no, understand is the wrong word, cause I don't understand. I can recognize why someone might think they would have to do it)
> 
> But without any sort of reward for doing so whatsoever, I just fail to see why anyone would see a need to do so, other than to feed their own ego.


Folks get mad at me for saying this. A good chunk of the general public is willing to cheat if they think they won't get caught. The amount of cheating I saw in college was a bit of an eye opener. Sure, it eventually caught up with some of them. 

I used to have some very sketchy managers, too. Glad most of them are a thing of the past. 

I don't condone doping. I'm more under the impression that people who can truly resist perfect opportunities are rare.


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## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

spade2you said:


> Folks get mad at me for saying this. A good chunk of the general public is willing to cheat if they think they won't get caught.


If You Ain’t Cheatin’, You Ain’t Tryin’

Social economics. If there is an incentive (not necessarily $), people will find an advantage to get that incentive. 

I don't think people light it on fire and push it off the edge at the beginning. I think most slowly push the edge further and further until they are so deep that they can't figure out how they got there.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

atpjunkie said:


> risking once health to be the best Cat 2 Master seems the epitome of stupid


Many people say there's no money for masters. 

The Surf City masters get paid. Confirmed doper Kayle Leogrande is riding for them right now and their a-hole manager Mike Faello will make it a personal vendetta against you if you speak out against him. They will crash you out in a race if you speak out. These guys are bullies.


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## rufus (Feb 3, 2004)

Yeah, but it can't be huge bank, enough to justify doping to get it.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

crit_boy said:


> If You Ain’t Cheatin’, You Ain’t Tryin’
> 
> Social economics. If there is an incentive (not necessarily $), people will find an advantage to get that incentive.
> 
> I don't think people light it on fire and push it off the edge at the beginning. I think most slowly push the edge further and further until they are so deep that they can't figure out how they got there.


It's hard to say how much it's because folks want the unfair advantage or magic feather feeling. Perhaps some of it is because some are drawn to doing what is forbidden. Of course, some are just sociopaths. 

I work with various healthcare professionals from all over. One coworker was from the middle east, where cheating in professional school is just how it is. Thankfully he got his edjumacation in The States.


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

Local Hero said:


> Do you know how many guys in the US take steroids purely for aesthetics?


I posted something similar to this in another thread. HUGE, HUGE number of people. I'm not talking about competitive racers, not even the huge bodybuilders; I'm talking guys you would never guess were on steroids.


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

The psychological effects of PEDs plays a huge role. Look up body dysmorphic disorder. There are huge bodybuilders that can't stop doing steroids, because they think they look too skinny when they cycle off. 

While I haven't seen a similar diagnosis for endurance athletes, there has to be the same kind of psychological addiction to being able to out ride your competition. If the PEDs help put people in the kind of shape to ride away from the field, the psychological effect will play a role in future use.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

jspharmd said:


> I posted something similar to this in another thread. HUGE, HUGE number of people. I'm not talking about competitive racers, not even the huge bodybuilders; I'm talking guys you would never guess were on steroids.


I think we probably see it a lot more on patient home med lists than 5-10 years ago.


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

spade2you said:


> I think we probably see it a lot more on patient home med lists than 5-10 years ago.


Interestingly, I've found patients didn't even think about these as meds, but as supplements (not needing to be mentioned to the healthcare team)...


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

jspharmd said:


> Interestingly, I've found patients didn't even think about these as meds, but as supplements (not needing to be mentioned to the healthcare team)...


For the purposes of the hospital admit, generally not pertinent for my patients most of the time. There have been a few guys who felt they really needed it or try to pull VIP status.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

rufus said:


> Yeah, but it can't be huge bank, enough to justify doping to get it.


No, it is mostly pride and ego. Although, there was a $2000 prize purse at the Budweiser crit, which was won by that doper Leogrande. He's a sprinter who just kicked the crap out of many climbers in the uphill TT yesterday and hilly RR today at the San Dimas SR.


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## Huytalie (Jan 4, 2021)

JohnStonebarger said:


> In triathlon and running races -- truly participatory sports -- people argue that doping products are okay to use if you're not "in the money." The logic is "His doctor put him on T for his low levels, let him run anyway. He's not winning his age-group." Again, it's not about the money.


Yes...sad but true!


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