# Advice for climbing



## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

So I am a relatively new road bike rider (not new to biking). Based on my experience so far, I am going decent on flats and short climbs where I can hold good cadence and speed. I average about 16-17 mph overall on rides including elevation. But I believe what's holding me back are steep climbs where your average grade is around 5 to 7%. I have read and heard some riders use their big rings to power through the climbs while others just stay in their biggest gear in the back and spin like a hamster. I have employed both strategies and neither works. Being in the big ring kills the cadence but helps with the distance but I tap out before the climb finishes. If I stick with the small chainring and shift to the biggest, I keep spinning but don't cover much distance and then eventually tap out there too. 

I wonder how the majority of people here attack climbs and how many use their big chainrings.

My current setup is a 50/34t crankset and a 11-28 cassette.

Appreciate any suggestions to get better here. Thanks!


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

People are different so you'll get different answers on gearing. The one answer you'll get from everybody is that if you want to improve your climbing, climb more. Much more. However much (and how fast) you're doing now, you might look back on in a few months or year and scoff at.

But how long (distance-wise), as an example, are some of these climbs you are talking about?


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

There's no magic solution. There is no 'this method' or 'that method'. Do what works for you.

If mashing doesn't work. And spinning doesn't work. You're pushing too hard. You're exceeding your fitness level.



> If I stick with the small chainring and shift to the biggest, I keep spinning but don't cover much distance and then eventually tap out there too.


Then shift down to the 25 cog and lower your cadence a bit.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

The most major mistake I see in beginning climbers is they tend to attack the climb as soon as they hit it. They hit it hard, way too hard.
If it's a short climb, one can build up speed, use the big ring and just power over it. If you have the power.
If it's a long climb, it's better to drop gears as soon as you start the climb, bring your heart rate up to about 90%, then control your HR at that level as you climb. 
Also look at the gradients, where it is steep is where you want to go the hardest. If this is at the beginning, keep it under control so you can complete the climb.
Most long climbs I run 150 of 175max heart rate, about 60-80 cadence. 
It takes time to get the handle on this, just keep doing it. 
If your racing, forget everything I said, this is for beginners. Later you will know what you want to do based on the climb.
I'm going to do a 9mile 1800ft climb right now, ..... minimum, we'll see when I get to the top of the mtn, if I want to go down the other side & back.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

jetdog9 said:


> People are different so you'll get different answers on gearing. The one answer you'll get from everybody is that if you want to improve your climbing, climb more. Much more. However much (and how fast) you're doing now, you might look back on in a few months or year and scoff at.
> 
> But how long (distance-wise), as an example, are some of these climbs you are talking about?


In particular there is this 1.2 mile long climb with an average grade of 5.4%. At its steepest part, the grade is like 14.7%. To add to that, its a narrow two-lane road with cars with no shoulder or bike path. So you have to be super focused to control your handlebars and not sway too much. The problem is that the steep part of the climb is not at the beginning (which wouldn't have been a problem) but at the middle after you have been grinding for like a half a mile already so there is no "ramp" to allow you to regain your speed and power before you attack the steep part. I can get out of the saddle and power through the steep part but can't continue non-stop and have to stop and catch my breath.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

You are going too hard on the entry if you want to make it to the top without stopping. Or your low on power, 30 second intervals are your friend, until you've done a few.


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

I'd say survive first, attack later... what Duriel mentions about keeping HR at ~90% for the entire climb may be a good thing to try for now. Some folks might tell you that power is a better way to manage your efforts but doesn't look like you're at a point where you want to spend lots of money (power meters are coming down in price but still far from cheap).

Definitely figure out how hard you can go and make it to the top without stopping rather than worrying that you are going too slow and trying to max out.


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## smokersteve (May 22, 2016)

I don't know if you are overweight since you didn't mention your height and weight. If you are overweight the easiest way to improve your climbing is to lose the excess weight.


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

In a different thread, OP reports he is 5-8 and ~153 pounds, so luckily weight is not likely a n issue for him.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

smokersteve said:


> I don't know if you are overweight since you didn't mention your height and weight. If you are overweight the easiest way to improve your climbing is to lose the excess weight.


I am 5'8 and 157 lbs..run and lift regularly. Have muscle with only 13% body fat. Don't think fitness is the issue here. Like duriel said, maybe I am going too hard on the initial climb and need to back off a little bit. I am also convinced i am probably in not the most optimal gear combination which is why I asked how many people use their big rings for climbing vs just staying in the small chainring. I guess I will have to figure out with more experience.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

gfz84 said:


> I am 5'8 and 157 lbs..run and lift regularly. Have muscle with only 13% body fat. Don't think fitness is the issue here. Like duriel said, maybe I am going too hard on the initial climb and need to back off a little bit. I am also convinced i am probably in not the most optimal gear combination which is why I asked how many people use their big rings for climbing vs just staying in the small chainring. *I guess I will have to figure out with more experience*.


This.

There are a lot of gears between attacking in the 50 tooth big ring and the 34x28. Use that derailleur and find what gear works for you. Don't worry about what someone else uses, use what works for you. Change it up, shift to a larger gear till your legs start to ache then shift to a smaller gear and spin awhile. Get out of the saddle and stand on short steep gradients. Find what works for you and build on that, don't try and build on what works for the other guy.


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

There are TdF pros nowadays who will go with a compact and spin up hills in 34-28, at the same time there are still plenty who will pick a higher gear and do more out of the saddle, etc. It really comes down to what suits you (both preference and what you can push yourself to do). 

You sound like you're on the right track, experiment + manage your effort level at this point.

Edit: Sorry this is basically what velodog said, I wrote it an hour ago and for some reason it took forever to post.


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## xxl (Mar 19, 2002)

velodog said:


> This.
> 
> There are a lot of gears between attacking in the 50 tooth big ring and the 34x28. Use that derailleur and find what gear works for you. Don't worry about what someone else uses, use what works for you. Change it up, shift to a larger gear till your legs start to ache then shift to a smaller gear and spin awhile. Get out of the saddle and stand on short steep gradients. Find what works for you and build on that, don't try and build on what works for the other guy.


^All this.

At my size, I'll never ever be a great climber, but I plod along as best I can; my advice is to get up that hill any way you can.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

gfz84 said:


> I am 5'8 and 157 lbs..run and lift regularly. Have muscle with only 13% body fat. Don't think fitness is the issue here.


It's EXACTLY a fitness issue. You're pushing yourself beyond your fitness level. Lifting weights and having muscle is irrelevant (actually it's a hinderance). Running is irrelevant. 




> Like duriel said, maybe I am going too hard on the initial climb and need to back off a little bit.


Yes. Because you don't have the fitness level to maintain that pace.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

tlg said:


> It's EXACTLY a fitness issue. You're pushing yourself beyond your fitness level. Lifting weights and having muscle is irrelevant (actually it's a hinderance). Running is irrelevant.
> 
> 
> Yes. Because you don't have the fitness level to maintain that pace.


I generally respect your "opinion" around here but I have to disagree here. I have been popped on this climb by much older and heavy set guys with beer bellies and they do not look anything like Chris Froome. My longest ride so far has been a 50-miler with more than 2000 ft of elevation over which I averaged 16.5 mph. I believe climbing a steep grade is my weakness and apart from that, I am generally a decent B-pace rider.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

gfz84 said:


> I generally respect your "opinion" around here but I have to disagree here. I have been popped on this climb by much older and heavy set guys with beer bellies and they do not look anything like Chris Froome.


You can disagree but you're wrong. You're just not comprehending fitness. It isn't just how you 'look' or your age.
Those older heavier guys have better fitness than you. You can change your pedaling technique all you want. It may help a bit, but it ain't gonna stop those guys from popping you on the climb. 




> My longest ride so far has been a 50-miler with more than 2000 ft of elevation over which I averaged 16.5 mph.


I know a guy who's 70, a beer belly, and would destroy you while riding his single speed. He rides upwards of 15,000mi/yr
I'm not knocking you. I really don't care what level anyone rides at. I'm just pointing out that no amount of technique is going to make you as fast as someone with superior fitness. It's a major fail to judge someone's fitness based on appearance.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

It's really simple. If you have to stop at the top of a step up and recover before continuing a climb. One is going too hard.
You can run a marathon or dead lift 1000lbs, on a bike I'll beat u up a climb cause that's where I live & ride. 
You have to do it to get it!
Did Contrador learn to climb over the summer? No, it took him years of dedicated training and a little help here and there.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

tlg said:


> You can disagree but you're wrong. You're just not comprehending fitness. It isn't just how you 'look' or your age.
> Those older heavier guys have better fitness than you. You can change your pedaling technique all you want. It may help a bit, but it ain't gonna stop those guys from popping you on the climb.
> 
> 
> ...


I am sure he can and so can a lot of other people I know. Am i looking to ride 15000 mi/year? No. Not even half. I understand I need to put in work to increase climb related fitness which I am happy to do. I just came here to see if there are any technical improvements I can make which will help. if the answer is no, its ok, I will continue to put in work. Thanks.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

gfz84 said:


> I am sure he can and so can a lot of other people I know. Am i looking to ride 15000 mi/year? No. Not even half.


That wasn't my point. You brought up getting popped by older fatter guys. I merely explained why. 




> I understand I need to put in work to increase climb related fitness which I am happy to do. I just came here to see if there are any technical improvements I can make which will help. if the answer is no, its ok, I will continue to put in work.


I think you've been given lots of good advice on techniques to try. They will help a bit. It's trial and error finding what works for you.


But as duriel mentioned above, " If you have to stop at the top of a step up and recover before continuing a climb." That's purely riding above your fitness.


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

It seemed like a bit of a semantics issue so I wasn't going to comment on it at first, but seeing how the thread has gone...

OP, you are right that it's not a weight issue. Everybody else is right that it's a fitness issue (cycling fitness), or at least an experience issue.

Eventually when these climbs are a mere blip to you down the line, I hope you come back and tie up this thread by letting us know what changed for you.


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## RhB_HJ (May 10, 2020)

gfz84 said:


> ...........I understand I need to put in work to increase climb related fitness which I am happy to do. I just came here to see if there are any technical improvements I can make which will help. if the answer is no, its ok, I will continue to put in work. Thanks.


Don't sweat it! 

I have an old Nishiki "Comp" (1981) which served me well doing triathlons back in the mid 80s, for those I had 53/44 chain wheels. For the long hilly rides I had a 50/40 set. many years on, at the age of 75, I decided that more riding was in the cards — automatic social distancing riding by myself.
So on the Nishiki I changed the Shimano 600 front for a set of Sram 46/38 and the 13-23 cassette will be changed to a 13-27 (it's in the mail!) That's the changes I made to tackle the hills. 
AND I absorbed the advice given in 
*Climb Like A Pro! by Rebecca Ramsay*

Slightly modified/adapted for my age. :blush2:
Hill climbs = I keep cranking at >60 rpm while shifting down,down,down and keep my eye on the "bpm". No red lining past 150! 
BTW the other item I bought back in the Spring: a Devinci Stellar Acera XC bike which with 27 speeds is a different story on the Rail Trail. standard trails or on the road.  

PS Any weight one sheds, one doesn't need to drag up the inclines.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

gfz84 said:


> I just came here to see if there are any technical improvements I can make which will help.


Yes, there are technical details you can add once you’re on top of your game.

Keep your hands on the bar tops, holding them lightly. Don’t waste energy by squeezing hard.

Rotate your hips forward, keeping your spine straight. The objective is to open your diaphragm to maximize air intake.

Slide back in the saddle a little, sit bones right at the back of the saddle. Concentrate on pedaling from one o’clock to seven o’clock in order to apply power through the top of the arc with no dead spot.

When you bog down and want to stand to regain your cadence, first shift to a harder gear, or even go up two. Shift back down once you sit again, or you might even find you’ve found a new rhythm in the harder gear.

A couple of exercises from Joe Friel’s Training Bible:

Hill repeats. On a six to eight percent hill climb for 30 to 40 seconds in a gear you can just hold at 70 rpm. Repeat 3 to 8 times with 2 to 4 minutes rest in between.

Cruise intervals. On a 2 to 4 percent hill climb at anaerobic threshold for 6 to 12 minutes. Stay seated, concentrating on smooth pedal stroke and minimal upper body motion. Do 3 to 5 reps, resting for 25 percent of the previous interval’s time in between (i.e. if it was six minutes rest 90 seconds).

You don’t say whether you have a power meter or heart rate monitor. Power meters are expensive, but provide the best way to target your exercises. 

Heart rate monitors are not expensive and provide a very valuable way to work out. With a little bit of work (or $150 at the local university sports science lab) you can find your workout zones and you’ll know for certain whether you have something left to give next time Mr. Beer Belly comes up along side.

HTH


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

JSR said:


> You don’t say whether you have a power meter or heart rate monitor. Power meters are expensive, but provide the best way to target your exercises.


I use my Garmin to broadcast my HR to my Wahoo and it's one of the display fields on my main screen. I honestly don't look at HR too much during the ride but only post ride wherein I usually average about 140ish overall. I have noticed the HR being around 170ish during climb segments but I don't think that's extraordinary. I sustain much higher HR during my runs but I don't get this feeling of "gassed out" that I do when I am on climbs. 
I don't have a power meter but I look to Strava's estimates (I know they are inaccurate) as I do the same routes/segments regularly to track how I am trending. Thankfully, it's trending in the right direction but it's the steep climbs which are my achilles heel right now.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

gfz84 said:


> I use my Garmin to broadcast my HR to my Wahoo and it's one of the display fields on my main screen. I honestly don't look at HR too much during the ride but only post ride...


I think you’ve got the clue to improvement right there. I watch my HR like a hawk on key segments and don’t spend much time doing post-ride analysis.

Learning your anaerobic threshold and max HR, and thus defining your HR zones will provide a lot of depth to your training regimen. Intelligently training at threshold is super valuable for increasing your power and endurance in that region. Also, knowing when you’ve gone above threshold and how far you are from max HR will enable you to gap Beer Guy if you need/want to go deep.

I follow Joe Friel. He’s sort of The Godfather of the priodization technique for training. Trainingpeaks is an online source for training plans that many people like. Chris Carmichael has a number of useful books that don’t include his Lance Armstrong special sauce. There are others.

Enjoy the ride.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

U should start with intervals about once every 2 to 4 weeks. 
Start watching your HR, remember that it doesn't track you effort like a PM, it lags your output by about 1 minute. ... so if your laying it down, your HR peak will be delayed, one needs to keep it a little low on initial increase in output, cause it's going up, how far is the question. If you hit your maximum, you are going to have to stop, soon!


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

gfz84 said:


> Appreciate *any* suggestions to get better here. Thanks!


Since you said any suggestions, have you seen these?


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

bvber said:


> Since you said any suggestions, have you seen these?


Ofcourse, love GCN vids. I particularly like the video where Si climbs up Jones St in SanFran which is apparently a 30% grade and gives the pro-tip of sitting on the nose of the saddle if sitting while tackling a steep climb. Will try to put it to practice and see how that goes.


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## smokersteve (May 22, 2016)

I am 5' 8" and weigh 143 lbs
If I had an extra 15 lbs on my frame there is no way I could climb at the pace that I do now


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## RhB_HJ (May 10, 2020)

gfz84 said:


> I use my Garmin to broadcast my HR to my Wahoo and it's one of the display fields on my main screen. I honestly don't look at HR too much during the ride but only post ride wherein I usually average about 140ish overall. ...................


You don't have to! 
There are several apps that give one the audio warning if maxHR is exceeded. 
That's when I easy off to keep it quiet and check how steep that section of the 18km climb is. 
Yesterday's 16% was a true surprise.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

JSR said:


> Yes, there are technical details you can add once you’re on top of your game.
> 
> *Keep your hands on the bar tops, holding them lightly. Don’t waste energy by squeezing hard.*
> 
> ...


Really good advise here with emphasis on the bolded comments. You can also learn to pace yourself paying attention to your breathing, but power meter's and HR monitors are better until you really get in touch with your breathing / PE assessments. I would also add, on long climbs learn to rotate muscle groups by alternating between standing, sitting, forward and back on the saddle.


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## tinball (Sep 24, 2014)

Relaxing as much as possible while climbing is great advice. 

Another is pacing. It was the number 1 thing I had to learn to become a better climber. 

Also every climb is different and how you respond to it is different but mostly depending on your strengths and also your condition when you start the climb. A climb early in a ride will most likely be much easier than if you did the same climb late in the ride. 

In group rides I learned that most people go way too hard early in most climbs longer than roughly half a mile or .75km. and over 5%. Once I realized that, it was like a revelation. It never gets old passing people who take off like rockets at the start when you get midway or 3/4 of the way up a climb.  

So I started paying attention to my body's response in both how much my legs and lungs were hurting. Once I realized that, I started paying attention to my heart rate to measure my efforts - then when I got a power meter, it was even better/easier. 

When I was riding competitively, I started to train my climbing strength, both seated and standing. I would do specific days where I would do repeats on 1.5 mile climb avg 7% with a 11% max section. Some days I would alternate high cadence and low cadence reps, standing only reps, seated only reps. Others were gearing ladders starting low to high back to low. As I got stronger, I would sometimes take a couple of extra water bottles for added weight - large 24 oz cameback bottles add around 1.5 lbs per bottle. It is also important to vary the climbs you train on to compensate for adaptation - if you have other climbs near you. 

I'm not the best climber out there by any means (I never was built for it) but I significantly improved my climbing by training it specifically. I am still able to hold my own in the local worlds rides on the harder and longer climbs.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

you gotta do some intervals, like 8 min and 20 min intervals. 8 min intervals are good practice for short climb, like what you're doing. For longer climbs, do 20min int.

You want spin, c'mon nobody mashes these days. But spinning alone is not enough. You have to spin with FORCE. Spinning with force will take practice, lots of practice. The problem with mashing is that it won't last, then you'll burn out, then you'll now need to sit and go into a lower gear and spin... and here's is where you need to spin with force and not just free spin. I see lots of guys who spin but they're not spinning with force, so they're going no where. To be able to spin with force will take dedicated interval works.

for starter, go do some 8min intervals, at 80-90% effort, with a 2min rest between sets. Do at least 3 sets for each session. Don't go hard in the first set, i.e., don't "dig deep", because if you do then you won't be able to finish the last set. Remeber, this is training.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

So I am here to report that I was able to finally do this climb without stopping to catch my breath. Albeit, I was one of the slowe riders to climb it. But I will take it. Today's ride was a lot of climbing and the suggestions I got here very all helpful. I still have a long way to go to become a better climber. But given my stats, my avg speed would be significantly higher if not for the climbs where I still suck. I feel i am in the biggest gear and my speed drops to a miserable 5-6mph on steep hills compared to other stronger riders who still maintain 10-12mph on the same sections. Seems like I need to put in more work but happy to report the small achievement so far.


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

Congratulations... As you know, keep riding, seek out hills, and more improvement will come.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

I'm amazed you got 3500ft of climbing riding along the river? OMG. 
I went over the mtn yesterday for a 4 hour ride and got about that, and I had 9.5mph average.
.... so I'm not riding with u any more!


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

duriel said:


> I'm amazed you got 3500ft of climbing riding along the river? OMG.
> I went over the mtn yesterday for a 4 hour ride and got about that, and I had 9.5mph average.
> .... so I'm not riding with u any more!


I can't really tell if you are being serious or sarcastic here. If you seriously averaged 9.5mph, I am confused since what happened to the descents? Was it an alpine like climb with hairpin turns? My ride was a mix of short, steep and long climbs but I tried to make up for the lost time on the flats and descents. And this is a popular route in the area and stronger riders here average about 17-18mph on the same route so I wasn't even that fast.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

It was a gravel ride, yes with switchbacks, about 1/4 pavement. It was cold coming down in the shade.

...I still can't believe the elevation you had, seriously!


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

duriel said:


> It was a gravel ride, yes with switchbacks, about 1/4 pavement. It was cold coming down in the shade.
> 
> ...I still can't believe the elevation you had, seriously!


Here's the elevation chart. I am not bluffing..lol


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

OK, I looked at the area on Google, your route must go up and down that ridge above the river.
Those are some serious climbs, I can see where you were having issues and came here. But, I feel inadequate now giving advice to such brutal physical route. 
... as I said, I'm not riding with you and will retire to the observatory.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

duriel said:


> OK, I looked at the area on Google, your route must go up and down that ridge above the river.


Yup.
Some of my most hilly brutal rides have been along rivers. Rivers are typically in valleys. Up down up down all day long.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

Ha Ha, pretty funny. You should just take up hiking!
.... and u're on ignore.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

jetdog9 said:


> Congratulations... As you know, keep riding, seek out hills, and more improvement will come.



Thanks! I do feel slightly more confident on steeper climbs now. 
I have also decided to upgrade the stock aluminum wheelset with a carbon wheelset with a dt350 hub. It's not necessarily to improve my climbing but for overall aero gains and weight savings (they are about 1500g) I know this isn't going to dramatically improve my performance here but what do you think would be realistic expectations from an upgrade to good carbon wheelset on hills?


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## tinball (Sep 24, 2014)

If they are decently lighter than the stock rims, they will feel snappier and easier to accelerate and climbing may feel easier. With lighter wheels, there will less of a flywheel affect at speed. If deeper, they will be a bit faster at speeds above 20mph. Also if deeper, you will probably feel crosswinds more - assuming shallow depth stock aluminum wheels.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

```

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tlg said:


> Yup.
> Some of my most hilly brutal rides have been along rivers. Rivers are typically in valleys. Up down up down all day long.


... so there are 1000' climbs near Yonkers? where?


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

So while I have PR'd multiple times on this climb and have improved my climbing generally, I also wanted to know what's the general gear set-up that people are using here. I am currently running a 50/34 and a 11-spd 11-34 cassette. I am thinking of putting a 11-32 to help with cadence on steep climbs. Currently my cadence drops to about 55-60 on the really steep sections (>10,%) and I wanted to know if an 11-32 will actually be helpful.


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## Got Time (Jan 23, 2009)

You currently have 11-34 and want to go to 11-32 "to help with cadence on steep climbs"?
Something seems wrong here - do you really want to decrease the range?


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

duriel said:


> I'm amazed you got 3500ft of climbing riding along the river? OMG.
> I went over the mtn yesterday for a 4 hour ride and got about that, and I had 9.5mph average.
> .... so I'm not riding with u any more!


You must not be from NYC? I live near that river and my usual ride is 25 miles 2,000 feet AND I avoid the final climb at the end of the park as I'm a bigger guy, that would put me at 25 miles 2,500 feet.

I'm a pretty big guy at 200lbs + and never thought of myself as a climber but with that exact route (albeit shorter) being my normal ride I've really developed my short term climbing abilities. I think nothing of rides which are 1,000 feet per 10 miles.


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

I'm with Got Time, confused by your cassette question. What's your cadence on the climb now and what do you think you want to do?

Like people mention earlier in the thread, gearing choice is all over the map. I'm too heavy and don't have the time anymore to invest in becoming a spectacular cyclist. But I enjoy climbing more than anything else and ride 53/39 and 11-28. It's probably not the best gearing for me and I may switch to 52/36 in the front soon but it's what I'm used to. 

Nowadays there are pros riding 50/34 and 11-28, 11-32, or even lower in grand tours on climbing stages. But there are others who stick with more old school higher gearing. 

With gravel bikes becoming popular there are people road riding with super duper low gears... 

With your gears if you continue to ride, you should be able to climb just about anything. And probably easily, no need to kill yourself every time on hills.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

9W9W said:


> You must not be from NYC?


No I am not, why?
List a address or section of that road that has a constant climb of 1000', not this up/down 50 times BS.
His profile of elevation lists 3 of them, so it should be really easy to identify.
Are you from NYC? What difference does that make. If your from NYC, are your feet in a different dimension?


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

Got Time said:


> You currently have 11-34 and want to go to 11-32 "to help with cadence on steep climbs"?
> Something seems wrong here - do you really want to decrease the range?


My bad for the typo..I have a 11-28 cassette and thinking of either a 11-32 or a 11-34. Tempted to go 11-34 for that 1x1 ratio but again concerned about bigger jumps in gears, cadence on flats etc..


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

duriel said:


> No I am not, why?
> List a address or section of that road that has a constant climb of 1000', not this up/down 50 times BS...


FWIW, I have no inclination to ride with you on your 1000' feet sojourns. I will stick to my relatively bunny climbs...lol.


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

duriel said:


> No I am not, why?
> List a address or section of that road that has a constant climb of 1000', not this up/down 50 times BS.
> His profile of elevation lists 3 of them, so it should be really easy to identify.
> Are you from NYC? What difference does that make. If your from NYC, are your feet in a different dimension?


I asked if you're from NYC because you came across as very sure about the area ("Show me a spot in Yonkers that...") and both in disbelief that a route along a river could generate that much vertical. Nothing more than that really... you seemed like you were both from the area and simultaneously dismissive of the widely known local routes, nothing more. 

Anyhow. below is a head on shot of the cliff face of the Palisades, visible from the west side of upper Manhattan. I live behind the buildings on top, more of less, and when I'm trying to round out my climbing before finishing a ride I'll dip down from the road (in the middle of the cliff face obscured by trees) and ride down to the visitors center visible in the photo and then back up to the buildings up top. Over the course of nearly ten miles in each direction this road winds down from sea leave to nearly cliff level and then back down and up. Along the way there are multiple 250' feet climbs and it terminates with a +500' climb out to a road which leads from NJ to NY and points north. One other thing, at this particular juncture from which it is photographed, the cliff is 400 feet lower than it is ten miles north of here, when the final climb is from sea level to top of cliff (+400 higher than here). 











All of this just mere miles from midtown Manhattan.


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

gfz84 said:


> My bad for the typo..I have a 11-28 cassette and thinking of either a 11-32 or a 11-34. Tempted to go 11-34 for that 1x1 ratio but again concerned about bigger jumps in gears, cadence on flats etc..


From looking at your wattage output on the Strava you linked to and it seems like you are lighter guy, yes? I went from 28 to 32 and am much happier on the climbs in the park, but I was simply running out of gears with 28.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

9W9W said:


> From looking at your wattage output on the Strava you linked to and it seems like you are lighter guy, yes? I went from 28 to 32 and am much happier on the climbs in the park, but I was simply running out of gears with 28.


Yes, I am 156 lbs (that power output is strava generated; not from a PM). Appreciate the local perspective. I think the Strava segment you are referring to is the 'Full Alpine Climb' and I dread every time I have to climb it. hahaha..


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

gfz84 said:


> Yes, I am 156 lbs (that power output is strava generated; not from a PM). Appreciate the local perspective. I think the Strava segment you are referring to is the 'Full Alpine Climb' and I dread every time I have to climb it. hahaha..


Yes, I live in the vicinity of Strictly's so the whole route is right there. I'm about fifty pounds heavier. I guess I thought it was all about power to weight and at 156 I would have no problem sailing up that climb. Sorry to put you on the spot, hah!

How are you planning to deal - or dealing with the colder temperatures - I'd like to keep riding but man, it's tough to go out in anything lower than 50F. WFH makes it possible to go out at the high of the day in sunlight but still.. it's just demoralizing when it gets cold. 

Please consider the need to get a longer cage rear deraileur when you upgrade the cassette. I had to swap out my SRAM RD when doing from 28 to 32.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

9W9W said:


> Yes, I live in the vicinity of Strictly's so the whole route is right there. I'm about fifty pounds heavier. I guess I thought it was all about power to weight and at 156 I would have no problem sailing up that climb. Sorry to put you on the spot, hah!
> 
> How are you planning to deal - or dealing with the colder temperatures - I'd like to keep riding but man, it's tough to go out in anything lower than 50F. WFH makes it possible to go out at the high of the day in sunlight but still.. it's just demoralizing when it gets cold.
> 
> Please consider the need to get a longer cage rear deraileur when you upgrade the cassette. I had to swap out my SRAM RD when doing from 28 to 32.


Cold weather is indeed a bummer plus the high winds these days make it doubly tough to go up these climbs especially when heading north on 9W. These days I prefer to just do laps in Liberty State Park as its close to where I live and if its 55+ or so outside I will do and out and back to Alpine which is like 40-45 miles round trip. I honestly want to do longer rides but have been waiting for these carbon clinchers to come in which are taking forever to get shipped because of covid.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

9W9W said:


> I asked if you're from NYC because you came across as very sure about the area ("Show me a spot in Yonkers that...")


... and you still haven't shown me a spot where there is 1000' elevation climb. Is that wall of rock 1000' high?


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

duriel said:


> ... and you still haven't shown me a spot where there is 1000' elevation climb. Is that wall of rock 1000' high?


I'm sorry. I think you have me confused with someone else.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

I'm not confused. I posted a question to show me where near NYC/Yonkers there is a 1000' climb. You stated that there are climbs all over and posted a picture of a rock overlook. 
The OP posted the elevation of his ride up that road that looked to me to have (3) 1000' climbs, where are those climbs?

It's just that simple, paragraph after paragraph about how I'm not from NYC and I don't understand is unnecessary.


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

Clam your rage old man.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

duriel said:


> I'm not confused. I posted a question to show me where near NYC/Yonkers there is a 1000' climb. You stated that there are climbs all over and posted a picture of a rock overlook.
> The OP posted the elevation of his ride up that road that looked to me to have (3) 1000' climbs, where are those climbs?
> 
> It's just that simple, paragraph after paragraph about how I'm not from NYC and I don't understand is unnecessary.


It appears you misread the elevation graph. The 1000 ft elevations on that map are "max" elevations; I started my ride at an elevation of 500ft. and reached the 1000ft mark about 20 miles into my ride. Since it was a sort of out and back route, I had the same elevations on the way back. It's not like I climbed one big wall of 1000ft 3 times starting from sea level. Hope that helps and clarifies. Also in case you are interested here is a complete list of popular climbs in the area:

https://nycc.org/rides/regional-hill-grades

My ride was mostly through Bergen and Rockland counties.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

just post some more about .... y'all are not from around here are'ya!


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

OP, as you know there are a lot of riders, even recreational, who ride much longer climbs because the terrain is available to them (blessed to be in Colorado, California, etc). Sometimes people might scoff at the climbs in your area, or at rides where you aren't doing more than 100ft/mile.

But these look like good climbing hills for sure. Climb on and enjoy getting better.

I know people including myself have posted that gearing preference is different for everybody, etc... I would personally say to you of course an 11-32 will allow you to keep your cadence up on the steep stuff. But with a 34 front / 28 rear combo as long as you keep riding, that ratio should let you climb just about anything once you're used to it.


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## gfz84 (Jun 9, 2020)

jetdog9 said:


> OP, as you know there are a lot of riders, even recreational, who ride much longer climbs because the terrain is available to them (blessed to be in Colorado, California, etc). Sometimes people might scoff at the climbs in your area, or at rides where you aren't doing more than 100ft/mile.
> 
> But these look like good climbing hills for sure. Climb on and enjoy getting better.
> 
> I know people including myself have posted that gearing preference is different for everybody, etc... I would personally say to you of course an 11-32 will allow you to keep your cadence up on the steep stuff. But with a 34 front / 28 rear combo as long as you keep riding, that ratio should let you climb just about anything once you're used to it.


Appreciate your advice (this thread was degenerating into something else so glad this didn't go off track) I am definitely leaning towards a 11-32 setup. I will have to change to a long cage RD as well. I still think i have scope for improvement with my current setup and lighter wheels will only help so there is no rush but good to have the info. I ride what is available to me so more power to those who are surrounded by hills. My focus for now is to just get better at climbing on my regular routes. Alpe De Huez can wait for now.


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