# Garmin Vector Pedal Based Power Meter



## 82zman (Oct 9, 2006)

Garmin | Newsroom | Press Releases

disappointed with the 1499.00 price point


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

82zman said:


> Garmin | Newsroom | Press Releases
> 
> disappointed with the 1499.00 price point


Me too, but I already have two PowerTaps, and I'm interested in this, though:



Garmin said:


> Get an ‘Edge’ on the competition: For users already using a Garmin Edge® 800 or Edge 500 cycling computer, adding a Vector power meter will take their training to the next level. *Not only will the Edge display total power, left and right leg power, and cadence, it will now also display in real-time the widely adopted power metrics from TrainingPeaks™: Normalized Power (NP ™), Intensity Factor (IF ™) and Training Stress Score (TSS ™). *The Edge 800 adds a new interval summary page to enhance the power-based training experience.
> 
> “Vector’s easy-to-own design has the potential to make power-based training more accessible and usable by a broader range of athletes,” said Hunter Allen, founder of Peaks Coaching Group and widely regarded as a leading expert in training with a power meter. “*In addition, by integrating the TrainingPeaks metrics of Normalized Power, Intensity Factor and Training Stress Score directly into the Edge head units *for real-time display, Garmin continues to demonstrate a strong commitment to advancing power-based cycling tools.”


I wonder if these metrics are being figured/processed on the head unit rather than at the Vector? If so, will Garmin only make them available when the Edge is paired with a Vector?


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## bseracka (Jun 25, 2009)

The transmitters look a little problematic. I can see ripping one off clipping in


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## sdeeer (Aug 12, 2008)

does anyone know the sampling frequency? (i.e. how often it reports a data point from each leg/receptor)


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## DiegoMontoya (Apr 11, 2010)

$1500 pedals. LOL.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Look-style pedals? Meh. Wanna Speedplay.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Undecided said:


> Me too, but I already have two PowerTaps, and I'm interested in this, though:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if these metrics are being figured/processed on the head unit rather than at the Vector? If so, will Garmin only make them available when the Edge is paired with a Vector?


I'd imagine they would have to be processed on the head unit. I can't imagine the processing in the sensors is computing all that.

Disappointed here as well. Both the price and the look/function of the system is definitely not what I hoped for. Those sensors....ugh....


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## Vee (Jun 17, 2010)

WHY in the hell would they make those sensors silver? It just doesn't make any sense. The price also sucks, but I think it is because we are all hoping for the floor to drop out on the power meter market and for them to become much more affordable. That is obviously not going to be happening at this point.


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## Ghost234 (Jun 1, 2010)

I read somewhere that it will only have 4 strain gauges. Wouldn't that result in poor accuracy? Don't Quarqs and powertaps have something like 24-32 strain gauges? I don't know about the rest of you, but with those sensors where they are, I would be very fearful of destroying the PM in a crit if I caught a pedal. 


It's a cool idea, but I'm going to hold off on the first generation. my powertap has been pretty good to me thus far and I don't really see a reason to switch.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Ghost234 said:


> I read somewhere that it will only have 4 strain gauges. Wouldn't that result in poor accuracy? Don't Quarqs and powertaps have something like 24-32 strain gauges? I don't know about the rest of you, *but with those sensors where they are, I would be very fearful of destroying the PM in a crit if I caught a pedal.
> *
> 
> It's a cool idea, but I'm going to hold off on the first generation. my powertap has been pretty good to me thus far and I don't really see a reason to switch.


Yep. Wonder if you can flip them the other way? As long as your ankle clears...


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## EDUC8-or (Jan 2, 2009)

Gonna keep the PT for now, if it were a grand I might be interested. Plus I switched to Speedplays after knee problems and don't really want to switch back.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

Those pedals do not look durable either. No metal plate for the cleat. That is just asking for pedal wear after only a year of heavy usage. For the price, I'd have expected a higher-end and more durable pedal.

Agree with everyone else. I strike my pedals sometimes when cornering in a race. I would be freaked out if that happened with a pair of $1500 pedals.


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## pcs2 (Sep 4, 2006)

I am interested. I don't have power right now, and was looking at getting a PT next year. I like the idea of the unit in the pedal, easy to switch bikes (2 campy and 2 shimano). I already use the look platform and garmin head units. 

I also like that no sensor/magnet required for cadence for a cleaner look. Although that appendage is ugly + not crit friendly. 

I'd imagine that after a few months, the vendor prices will be below MSRP. I don't recall paying MSRP on any bike parts recently. Might wait for the second iteration though.


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## Vee (Jun 17, 2010)

pcs2 said:


> I am interested. I don't have power right now, and was looking at getting a PT next year. I like the idea of the unit in the pedal, easy to switch bikes (2 campy and 2 shimano). I already use the look platform and garmin head units.
> 
> I also like that no sensor/magnet required for cadence for a cleaner look. Although that appendage is ugly + not crit friendly.
> 
> I'd imagine that after a few months, the vendor prices will be below MSRP. I don't recall paying MSRP on any bike parts recently. Might wait for the second iteration though.


That is kind of what I was thinking in regards to price, too. The MSRP on the Garmin Edge 800 was in the 700 dollar range for the bundle around christmas time, IIRC, and people were able to find deals in the $450 range for the entire bundle. If that ends up being the case for Vector, you could end up finding prices that match or even rival that of the cheaper power taps!


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Vee said:


> That is kind of what I was thinking in regards to price, too. The MSRP on the Garmin Edge 800 was in the 700 dollar range for the bundle around christmas time, IIRC, and people were able to find deals in the $450 range for the entire bundle. If that ends up being the case for Vector, you could end up finding prices that match or even rival that of the cheaper power taps!


Would it be practical though? I think CC had the wired powertap for about $600 (not sure if that included a HU or not) and deals like that are going to be hard to beat. The other comment people have made is durability: I don't like the idea of ANYTHING sticking out off the cranks like a flag. I can just imagine one of those things snapping off in a crash and the thrill it would be to have to replace them...


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

The wired Powertap is awful. It's not ANT+ supported, not easily swapped between bikes, and is not really very useful with for Garmin users. Realistically the Pro+ would be the cheapest Powertap I'd recomend. And that model, built into a wheel is about $1200 or so (and that's on the low-end of estimates).


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## S2B (Dec 18, 2005)

So disappointed! I have been eagerly waiting for this product for a long time. The Exustar pedals, a $1,500.00 price tag and the funky transmitter location are a deal killer for me. I think a lot of the buzz surrounding this product was associated with the sub-$1,000 price point, and making powermeters more affordable to a larger portion of the cycling community. I was expecting a whole lot more from Garmin.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

nightfend said:


> The wired Powertap is awful. It's not ANT+ supported, not easily swapped between bikes, and is not really very useful with for Garmin users.


That's what I've been using for the last 3 years. I got it for $475, barely used, off CL. The ebay/CL prices of these should be quite a bit lower now. The power data is actually just as good as any of the other PowerTaps, and everything else is about convenience. I'm also a Garmin user (305 and 500) - for the few times that I care about combined GPS and power data, I merge the files using SportTracks. So there's a hassle factor and the wires are clunky, but it is a great way to get into power on a budget.



> Realistically the Pro+ would be the cheapest Powertap I'd recomend. And that model, built into a wheel is about $1200 or so (and that's on the low-end of estimates).


Wheel builds with the Pro+ start at $1000 on wheelbuilder.com (eg. Kinlin rims), and prices should fall some when the new generation PowerTap hubs and new pricing hits the market.

Sure I'd like to upgrade to an integrated wireless solution, but with pricepoints at $1000 (PowerTap), $1500 (Vector), $2000 (Quarq) and $3000 (SRM) it is a tough sell to ukwife.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

I'm not sure why everyone is so bent out of shape over the price. Its got more features than a powertap, why would you undercut the market when you could make more money? Sure, two years ago they were said to be 'targeting' a sub 1k pricepoint, but so much has changed since then.

I'll be interested when my current powertap is running out of legs and I'm sure they've worked the bugs out.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

I for one am eagerly awaiting the endless threads analyzing and debating left/right power numbers, pedaling efficiency, how to train for these, and whether it matters.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

nightfend said:


> The wired Powertap is awful. It's not ANT+ supported, not easily swapped between bikes, and is not really very useful with for Garmin users. Realistically the Pro+ would be the cheapest Powertap I'd recomend. And that model, built into a wheel is about $1200 or so (and that's on the low-end of estimates).


Actually, the cheapest ANT+ is the Elite+ which will knock another $100-$150 off the price. That puts the price around $1100- $1050, cheaper if you happen to find a deal somewhere.

In your example, the Powertap is STILL $300 cheaper than the Vector, and won't be annihilated when you crash the bike, as the Vector certainly could be, nor does it have the horrendous bugs that Garmin's first generation products are known for. And the price will likely come down even further with the 3rd generation Powertap units coming.

Sorry, Garmin absolutely failed everyone who they had strung along with an Interbike release date and $1000 price tag, not to mention the cheap pedals. Their product doesn't "bring power to the people" as they claim, but it's just another mid range offering from a company that's made promises they can't keep. For the price they are asking, you can spend a couple hundred more and get a Quarq, and that's the avenue I'll be going from here. Garmin just lost a power meter customer because of their poor design and their inability to stick to deadline/price constraints.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

kbiker3111 said:


> I'm not sure why everyone is so bent out of shape over the price. Its got more features than a powertap, why would you undercut the market when you could make more money? Sure, two years ago they were said to be 'targeting' a sub 1k pricepoint, but so much has changed since then.
> 
> I'll be interested when my current powertap is running out of legs and I'm sure they've worked the bugs out.


What features does it have that the powertap doesn't besides portability and left/right split recording? Any other processing would (presumably) be done in the head unit (and those firmware upgrades should benefit everyone, not just Vector users.)


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

kbiker3111 said:


> I'm not sure why everyone is so bent out of shape over the price. Its got more features than a powertap, why would you undercut the market when you could make more money? Sure, two years ago they were said to be 'targeting' a sub 1k pricepoint, but so much has changed since then.
> 
> I'll be interested when my current powertap is running out of legs and I'm sure they've worked the bugs out.


It has separate left/right power reading, but anything else beyond what a PowerTap has? A PowerTap Pro+ in a Mavic Open Pro is $1,017 at Colorado Cyclist. I, too, may be interested in this at some point, but I think the price-comparison points that others have made are fair.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

robdamanii said:


> What features does it have that the powertap doesn't besides portability and left/right split recording? Any other processing would (presumably) be done in the head unit (and those firmware upgrades should benefit everyone, not just Vector users.)


Left/right independents, higher sampling resolution for pedal stroke analysis, portability and the ability to run race wheels independent of power unit. The only other unit that approaches those features is the SRM.


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## pwork (Feb 25, 2009)

I'm not sure what the concern over striking during crits or sharp turns, the outside of the pedal body will hit first, and short of bending the spindle the electronics inside would be safe. I can't see how the tx would be able to strike the ground at any lean angle short of clipping a curb....then you have other issues!


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

kbiker3111 said:


> Left/right independents, higher sampling resolution for pedal stroke analysis, portability and the ability to run race wheels independent of power unit. The only other unit that approaches those features is the SRM.


I disagree. Portability is a useless feature unless you travel quite frequently. Ability to run race wheels can be done with SRM or Quarq. We'll have to see how solid the left/right independents and supposed higher sampling resolution turns out to be.

As it stands, Garmin failed at their objective: deliver a low cost, pedal based system that makes power meters accessible to the general population. Powertap still has the corner on that market.


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## InfiniteLoop (Mar 20, 2010)

If I remember correctly the Metrigear version had 16 strain gauges (vs 4 in these) that allowed for some good force/direction info of pedal stroke that would allow a coach (or self sufficient rider) to analyze and improve pedaling efficiency. Doesn't appear these will be able to do that.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

robdamanii said:


> As it stands, Garmin failed at their objective: deliver a low cost, pedal based system that makes power meters accessible to the general population.


I'm pretty sure that Garmin's objective is "to increase shareholder value", also known as "make loads of money". They have certainly succeeded in this with their fitness GPS units, we will see have to see how well their Vector strategy plays out in the market for them.

But like you, I'm frustrated to be priced out of these devices after all the wait and hype. I don't care about the left/right or high sampling rates. I would just like reliable, accurate power measurement that works with my Edge 500 at a reasonable price point. It does look like there are other players coming out with new products next year, so maybe prices will come down.


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## pcs2 (Sep 4, 2006)

robdamanii said:


> I disagree. Portability is a useless feature unless you travel quite frequently. Ability to run race wheels can be done with SRM or Quarq. We'll have to see how solid the left/right independents and supposed higher sampling resolution turns out to be.
> 
> As it stands, Garmin failed at their objective: deliver a low cost, pedal based system that makes power meters accessible to the general population. Powertap still has the corner on that market.


Comparing the vector with the best features of 3 other manufactures is not a valid comparison. In a one-to-one comparison, I'm betting vector will be suited to many people needs, monetarily, features, and portability-wise.

I want something that I can use on several different bikes, for training and racing and on the trainer, and <gasp> maybe some cross and mtb. So a PT is out.

So either I get an SRM/quarq, or go with the vector. I already have nice cranks that I would like to keep. The vector is cheaper, and I imagine most people will be able to get it under MSRP. 

As long as the quality (and product) is there, Garmin (might?) delivers for my needs. Obviously vector isn't for you for whatever reasons.


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

kbiker3111 said:


> Left/right independents, higher sampling resolution for pedal stroke analysis, portability and the ability to run race wheels independent of power unit. The only other unit that approaches those features is the SRM.


Isn't the higher sampling resolution like adding more megapixels to a pocket camera's sensor? I mean, it's more, but what does it add?


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

pcs2 said:


> Comparing the vector with the best features of 3 other manufactures is not a valid comparison. In a one-to-one comparison, I'm betting vector will be suited to many people needs, monetarily, features, and portability-wise.
> 
> I want something that I can use on several different bikes, for training and racing and on the trainer, and <gasp> maybe some cross and mtb. So a PT is out.
> 
> ...


I'd be terrified to put that on a mountain bike and chance snapping the sending unit off on a rock or something.

I appreciate your point, but in a one to one comparison, the Vector is a poor solution. 4 strain gauges is a cop out. Cheap pedals (and being locked into pedals) is a cop out. Poorly positioned sending units (not to mention ugly) is a cop out. 

The whole system looks unfinished and poorly designed. And knowing Garmin's history of having nearly unusable first generation issues, it's just something that won't ever be a consideration for me, and many people.


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## pcs2 (Sep 4, 2006)

robdamanii said:


> I'd be terrified to put that on a mountain bike and chance snapping the sending unit off on a rock or something.


The trails I ride here are primarily hardpack, minimal rocks. i wouldn't take it out on technical rides. In case of rock strikes, the sending unit seems to be parallel to the crank, so hopefully you will smack the bottom of the crank first, followed by the pedal. The bottom of my cranks (mtb) are pretty scratched up, but my pedals are doing pretty well.



robdamanii said:


> I appreciate your point, but in a one to one comparison, the Vector is a poor solution. 4 strain gauges is a cop out. Cheap pedals (and being locked into pedals) is a cop out. Poorly positioned sending units (not to mention ugly) is a cop out.


Luckily I prefer Look style pedals, but I haven't done enough research on the strain gauges and the resulting data from gauges (or lack thereof). That is definitely an area that I will be looking into. I have experience with strain gauges (everything from applying to data collection to interpretation) so I will be looking into the various configurations (SRM/quarq).

(off on a tangent here->) In your opinion, why is four gauges per pedal a cop out? In theory (2D), three gauges gives the ability to transform any stress tensor to a co-ordinate system of your choosing. Is the vector unit collecting data from multiple planes? or in the longitudinal direction only? How many are the SRM/quarq cranks using? And to what purpose? (just thinking aloud here)



robdamanii said:


> The whole system looks unfinished and poorly designed. And knowing Garmin's history of having nearly unusable first generation issues, it's just something that won't ever be a consideration for me, and many people.


I didn't think it looked _too _bad, but yes, Garmin has had some goofy c/s and bugs in some of their product. Another area that I will be watching obviously.

While I am excited about this product, I need to see some real results and validation. A pedal-based system is the way to go for me and the price is right. I just can't justify splashing out 2k+ for an SRM when the likely price for the vector will be around 1200 to 1300$


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Personally, I'd hate wearing road-style clipless pedals on a mountain bike. Double-sided, easy-in, easy-out and walkable are prerequisites for an MTB pedal for me. But then I wouldn't want power on my mountain bike either.


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## pcs2 (Sep 4, 2006)

ukbloke said:


> Personally, I'd hate wearing road-style clipless pedals on a mountain bike. Double-sided, easy-in, easy-out and walkable are prerequisites for an MTB pedal for me. But then I wouldn't want power on my mountain bike either.


It would be for for non-tech XC rides (HT + 80mm travel or my full rigid) that I would be using them for, no clipping out required. I usually transfer to mtb'ing in the late fall after burning out of road riding. I would use my regular pedals and fs bike for anything remotely technical. I am interested to see what kind of work is going on on my XC training rides.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Keep in mind that Sram bought Quarq, so the price of them might come down a bit. Quarq isn't much more expensive than Garmin and has already worked out the bugs long ago.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

82zman said:


> Garmin | Newsroom | Press Releases
> 
> disappointed with the 1499.00 price point


"Epic FAIL" in the current vernacular of the kiddies, IMO.
I **just** got my wheels w/ my first Powertap earlier this week. Saw the Garmin Vector announcement and thought "Sh*+!! I'm screwed- I waited over a year for the dang MetriGear pedals, gave up and NOW they come out?!?!"
However, upon seeing the pictures and picking up my jaw after seeing the price, I could NOT be happier w/ my decision. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Not only was my SL+ hub waaaaay cheaper than these Sci-Fi pedals, but even when combined w/ handbuilt wheels, the whole package was STILL cheaper! (disclaimer: discounts apply from my racing team).

That price is absolutely ludicrous.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Garmin vector pedals, $1500
Specialized Venge frame-set, $4400
Shimano DuraAce Di2 components, $3800
Zipp 404 carbon clincher wheels, $2700
Carbon bars, stem, seat-post, saddle, $1000
Accessories, kit and helmet, $2000
Coming 7th on the Strava segment on the neighborhood local multi-use trail, priceless


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## pcs2 (Sep 4, 2006)

RRRoubaix said:


> "Epic FAIL" in the current vernacular of the kiddies, IMO.
> I **just** got my wheels w/ my first Powertap earlier this week. Saw the Garmin Vector announcement and thought "Sh*+!! I'm screwed- I waited over a year for the dang MetriGear pedals, gave up and NOW they come out?!?!"
> However, upon seeing the pictures and picking up my jaw after seeing the price, I could NOT be happier w/ my decision. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
> 
> ...


Whatever you have to tell yourself I guess.  

No way I'm paying that much to be locked into a single wheelset. I include the handbuild wheels into my pricing as I can't race on a PT without it. If it works for you great.

So your racing team deals don't apply to garmin products? Fortunately my shop discount will apply to those pedals, on top of the standard 1-200$ off MSRP. Who knows what PBK and other euro retailers will be selling them for.

Ludicrous? Ludicrous is paying for a Venge Maclaren, not a few bucks more for a more versatile system IMO.

*standard disclaimer* assuming the Garmin is reliable and doesn't require a ctrl-alt-del every few minutes :lol:

*edit* yes, I'm expecting a lot from these pedals. If Garmin doesn't deliver, quarq may have another customer.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

RRRoubaix said:


> "Epic FAIL" in the current vernacular of the kiddies, IMO.
> I **just** got my wheels w/ my first Powertap earlier this week. Saw the Garmin Vector announcement and thought "Sh*+!! I'm screwed- I waited over a year for the dang MetriGear pedals, gave up and NOW they come out?!?!"
> However, upon seeing the pictures and picking up my jaw after seeing the price, I could NOT be happier w/ my decision. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
> 
> ...


I got an entire handbuilt DT240/Powertap/DT Revolution/RR465 wheelset with tires, tubes and cassette for less than the cost of the Vector pedals.

That just makes the Vector look silly.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

pcs2 said:


> Whatever you have to tell yourself I guess.
> 
> No way I'm paying that much to be locked into a single wheelset. I include the handbuild wheels into my pricing as I can't race on a PT without it. If it works for you great.
> 
> ...


It's only "versatile" if you have multiple bikes or travel. Otherwise it's an elegant exercise in "ugly, overpriced, overhyped, cheap quality pedal" system.


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## pcs2 (Sep 4, 2006)

robdamanii said:


> It's only "versatile" if you have multiple bikes or travel. Otherwise it's an elegant exercise in "ugly, overpriced, overhyped, cheap quality pedal" system.


Multiple bikes, yes
Travel, yes
Ugly, meh, seen worse.
overpriced, compared to an SRM? You seem really focused on MSRP
overhyped? yeah
cheap pedals? I can't tell by looking at the picture, have you actually held the production version?

Also, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the 4 strain gauge cop out you mentioned earlier.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

pcs2 said:


> Multiple bikes, yes
> Travel, yes
> Ugly, meh, seen worse.
> overpriced, compared to an SRM? You seem really focused on MSRP
> ...


4 strain gauges infers 2 gauges per pedal. SRM uses 8 (if I recall correctly) while Powertaps use 8 as well. I'm going to hazard a guess that there will be a fair difference in accuracy in the Garmin unit vs a unit with more measuring gauges.

Focused on MSRP? You can buy a Powertap wheel for 60% the MSRP of the Vector. For all practical purposes, the release of the Vector will drive the Powertap price lower yet, making it yet again the most economical choice.

Cheap pedals. If you think those are top of the line pedals, you're only kidding yourself. Anyone can see those are far from top of the line pedals.

Overpriced: when the company releases an MSRP of 50% higher than they "hoped for" that's a pretty big failure on their part.

It's also overhyped in the respect that this was "released at Interbike" yet will now not be available until March. Very typically Garmin.

Multiple bikes: useless on mountain bikes, useless on 'cross bikes. Only useful on a road machine. Therefore, a waste of money. Crank and wheel based units can be swapped to 'cross bikes at least. 

You can love this thing all you want. The bottom line remains that it is nothing that Garmin touted it to be, let alone "the unit to bring power to the people." Stop pretending it will do anything more than solidify Powertap's position as the most economical offering.


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## pcs2 (Sep 4, 2006)

robdamanii said:


> 4 strain gauges infers 2 gauges per pedal. SRM uses 8 (if I recall correctly) while Powertaps use 8 as well. I'm going to hazard a guess that there will be a fair difference in accuracy in the Garmin unit vs a unit with more measuring gauges.


No, I'm pretty sure I read that it's 4 per pedal. I find it interesting that you label it as a cop out when you don't really know the science behind it. Just "more must be better". I was hoping for something more from you than that.




robdamanii said:


> Focused on MSRP? You can buy a Powertap wheel for 60% the MSRP of the Vector. For all practical purposes, the release of the Vector will drive the Powertap price lower yet, making it yet again the most economical choice.
> .


Yes, you keep quoting 1500 as a magic number when you know that most anyone with some skill will be able to get it for less. I'm betting I will be able to pick it up for around 1200-1300. I don't want the one-wheel only PT for a couple of hundred in savings.



robdamanii said:


> Cheap pedals. If you think those are top of the line pedals, you're only kidding yourself. Anyone can see those are far from top of the line pedals.
> .


Again, amazing that you can tell by looking at pictures. Have you held them? 



robdamanii said:


> It's also overhyped in the respect that this was "released at Interbike" yet will now not be available until March. Very typically Garmin.
> .


Overhyped, sure. 



robdamanii said:


> Multiple bikes: useless on mountain bikes, useless on 'cross bikes. Only useful on a road machine. Therefore, a waste of money. Crank and wheel based units can be swapped to 'cross bikes at least.


Yes, multiple bikes. I buy a vector I can use it on all my bikes.

I buy a PT for the road/cross, it stays on the road/cross bikes (campy). I buy it for my TT it stays on the TT bike (shimano). I buy it for mtb, it stays on mtb (26 wheels). Track bike? Sure.

Never mind the whole training wheels and racing wheels (trainer/winter/rain/race miles).



robdamanii said:


> You can love this thing all you want. The bottom line remains that it is nothing that Garmin touted it to be, let alone "the unit to bring power to the people." Stop pretending it will do anything more than solidify Powertap's position as the most economical offering.


I don't love this thing, I'm _waiting_ to see when it comes out. Maybe you should try that too before you write it off.

I don't think I ever suggested it would replace the economical position of the PT. The PT is great on a budget, but not for me, and I suspect not for alot of people. I need something that I can use on all my bikes, regardless if I am rising in the rain, racing, on the dirt, or on the trainer.

For 1200 bucks, the garmin may be the solution for me.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

pcs2 said:


> No, I'm pretty sure I read that it's 4 per pedal. I find it interesting that you label it as a cop out when you don't really know the science behind it. Just "more must be better". I was hoping for something more from you than that.
> 
> I'm not an engineer, so I can't comment the build aspects of it. I'm willing to bet the accuracy of the Garmin will be poorer than the 2% claimed by Saris and SRM.
> 
> ...


12345

Your opinion is just that; yours. We obviously do not agree on the merits and faults of the Vector, so you can use it, I'll stick with my choice as well. My Powertap has been perfect, and I'll swap to a Quarq next season and be perfectly happy not having ugly sensors and cheap pedals hanging off my cranks.

I can only suggest you wait until they work the bugs out of the system before you buy one, based upon my previous experience with Garmin products.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

My question also remains as to how this:









turned into this:









Edit:

Look like there are plenty of people unhappy with the Vector right now. See the comments here:
DC Rainmaker: Garmin Announces Vector Power Meter Release Date & Availability Info, also Garmin Edge 200 release


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## pcs2 (Sep 4, 2006)

robdamanii said:


> I'm not an engineer, so I can't comment the build aspects of it. I'm willing to bet the accuracy of the Garmin will be poorer than the 2% claimed by Saris and SRM.
> 
> I'll take that bet. Let me know what you drink.
> 
> ...


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## pcs2 (Sep 4, 2006)

robdamanii said:


> My question also remains as to how this.......snip


I'm glad they didn't go with speedplay I can't use those pedals. Besides.......speedplays are for people who haven't figured out how a single sided pedal works....

The comments seem to follow the same old pricing complaints. I guess people don't know how to shop. 

_If_ they are successful, I imagine different pedal bodies are possible.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

pcs2 said:


> I'm glad they didn't go with speedplay I can't use those pedals. Besides.......speedplays are for people who haven't figured out how a single sided pedal works....
> 
> The comments seem to follow the same old pricing complaints. I guess people don't know how to shop.
> 
> _If_ they are successful, I imagine different pedal bodies are possible.


I sure hope so. Those composite pedals last about 2 seasons before they get sloppy or start to show substantial wear.

The thing here is that this is basically a new product to the marketplace. For a new product to survive, it needs to solve some problem in the market, and it needs to do it better than the competition. In the case of power meters, the problem is the same: price. They are too expensive for your average recreational rider. Sure, there will always be techies, nerds, obsessive numbers based training and the stupidly rich, but eventually that subset of the cycling market will be saturated. Once that happens (and it's surely on its way to that) the only way to open up the market is to drop the price, and the Vector just doesn't do that.

The lowest model powertap is successful in this because it is really only double the cost of the part it replaces. The new 3rd generation Pro model is only about 2.5x the cost of the hub it replaces. I have to question if people who really need/want the split L/R, those with multiple road bikes that needs to swap pedals and the few who don't have power meters (and are willing to pay that price) are enough to sustain and drive Garmin's market share.

I just don't see hordes of people dumping Quarqs, powertaps and SRMs over the Vector, especially now that they know the price.

Frankly, aside from the price, I'm more pissed that they won't be updating the older Edge units to handle TSS/IF/NP/etc. Just goes to show that Garmin really doesn't care much about the customers who haven't gone out and snapped up their latest buggy offerings. Then again, I've doubted they cared much for a long time; after all, what kind of company offers firmware updates that render the unit completely useless at times? Unfortunately, there's no suitable GPS based alternative out there to compete with the 705/800.


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## pcs2 (Sep 4, 2006)

robdamanii said:


> I sure hope so. Those composite pedals last about 2 seasons before they get sloppy or start to show substantial wear.
> 
> The thing here is that this is basically a new product to the marketplace. For a new product to survive, it needs to solve some problem in the market, and it needs to do it better than the competition. In the case of power meters, the problem is the same: price. They are too expensive for your average recreational rider. Sure, there will always be techies, nerds, obsessive numbers based training and the stupidly rich, but eventually that subset of the cycling market will be saturated. Once that happens (and it's surely on its way to that) the only way to open up the market is to drop the price, and the Vector just doesn't do that.
> 
> ...


Some good points here. I don't expect to see many people dumping their current systems. How many people are in the market for new power meters? I am still searching for the perfect solution such that I can get power from all (most) my bikes. Maybe the garmin can do it. Maybe not. We'll see in a couple of months (years )


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

Like them or hate them, but those pedals are not low-end. They are top of the line Exustar carbon pedals. I still question their long-term durability, but they are not cheap.

VeloNews did a review of the pedal last year:
Wrenched & Ridden bike reviews: Exustar E-PR200CKTi road pedals


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## bent steel (Dec 28, 2007)

pcs2 said:


> I'm glad they didn't go with speedplay I can't use those pedals. Besides.......speedplays are for people who haven't figured out how a single sided pedal works....



Yes, the entire podium of the TdF was apparently a bunch of rubes this year. F a bunch of crappy knockoff pedals, bring back the Speedplays.


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## pcs2 (Sep 4, 2006)

bent steel said:


> Yes, the entire podium of the TdF was apparently a bunch of rubes this year. F a bunch of crappy knockoff pedals, bring back the Speedplays.


Yes, cuddles and the sisters were entertaining to watch. How were they able to get up to that podium wearing those cleats?

I guess they (garmin) should switch back to speedplay. Wouldn't want to exclude their 6 customers.


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## rubbersoul (Mar 1, 2010)

Do they have the metal cleat skid plate like the Look Keos? It doesn't appear so.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

rubbersoul said:


> Do they have the metal cleat skid plate like the Look Keos? It doesn't appear so.


It doesn't look like it. 

I've never had any luck with pedals that don't have any kind of metal cleat interface, but I guess we'll see.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Yeah no thanks to this system on several levels - all of which have been mentioned.


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## Bridgey (Mar 26, 2003)

You would think because the strain gauges are on the inside of the pedal axle that we could replace the pedal body whenever we felt the need without effecting the power meter itself? \

Who is to say the pedal manufacturer won't create a new pedal for the system that meets most of our expectations. It's still early days. They are taking another 6mths or so to get it out for a reason. Perhaps the look of it all is part of it. Perhaps they are reading our comments now and taking notes. I think at the end of the day people will be raving about them.

From my understanding a lot of other power meters require you to send it back to get simple things like get the batteries exchanged. How painful is that!! I'd imagine the Garmin's would be pretty friendly in this regard.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Bridgey said:


> You would think because the strain gauges are on the inside of the pedal axle that we could replace the pedal body whenever we felt the need without effecting the power meter itself?


There are 2 potential issues here - how is the sensor secured to the inside of the spindle, and can the customer recalibrate the sensors when swapping to a new pedal body? Given that the sensors are measuring tiny deflections in the spindle, it seems to me that there has to be a strong mechanical coupling between the sensor and the spindle (e.g. is it permanently bonded?). I can't believe that the manufacturing tolerances of the spindle and the sensor are tight enough to allow a simple insertion. Calibration will be critical to accuracy. From an engineering point of view, I doubt that it is going to be possible and you will invalidate your Garmin warranty too.



> Who is to say the pedal manufacturer won't create a new pedal for the system that meets most of our expectations. It's still early days. They are taking another 6mths or so to get it out for a reason. Perhaps the look of it all is part of it. Perhaps they are reading our comments now and taking notes. I think at the end of the day people will be raving about them.


I think the pictures they have shown are representative of the first product. Of course, there will likely be more variants down the line. Having gone with Exustar because of commercial/logistical reasons, they probably choose an existing compatible high-end Exustar pedal to get the weight down, and because the most expensive pedal in the world had better be a high-end pedal. Unfortunately it seems that Exustar has not yet learned the lesson that a little bit of metal goes a long way to increasing pedal durability. I also find it interesting that Garmin's press materials mention "Look Keo compatible" but don't mention Exustar at all - one reads into this that they would rather be associated with Look (even though it is not a Look pedal) than a pedal manufacturer that nobody has heard of. Of course it also leaves the door open to more pedal offerings in the future all under the Garmin Vector brand-name ...



> From my understanding a lot of other power meters require you to send it back to get simple things like get the batteries exchanged. How painful is that!! I'd imagine the Garmin's would be pretty friendly in this regard.


SRM has this requirement, but the other big names (PowerTap and Quarq) do have user-changeable batteries. In fact, SRM's battery typically lasts longer than the recommended interval between factory recalibrations. Their philosophy is that this is a precision measuring instrument requiring annual factory maintenance and calibration. At the high end of the sport this is a very worthwhile procedure, and makes sense for the "gold standard" of power meters. At the consumer/prosumer end of the market user maintenance makes more sense.

Anyway, if I had this kind of money today to spend on a new power meter, I have no doubts that I would retire my wired PowerTap wheel and go with a Quarq. The price is only slightly higher than the Vector, and the Quarq is proven technology and available today. I only have one bike of interest so the portability is irrelevant to me. I'd rather just swap out my crank and be done with it, and there is practically no weight penalty compared to my Ultegra crank (less than 10g!). This seems a better choice for me than riding day-in/day-out with a crap hub or wheel, or a crap set of pedals. A crank-based solution gives me free choice of pedals (I really like my Dura Ace SPD-SL pedals), and a free choice of wheels (I really like my Dura Ace WH-7850SL tubeless wheels).


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

My complaints are similar to the ones already mentioned. I'm very disappointed that they won't be officially supporting the Edge 705... My device works fine.. why upgrade?! Also.. they would have made this system more elegant. Cyclists like their bikes looking nice. This ugly arse sensor seriously isn't going to win any fashion shows. Even with these issues the higher than expected cost is what really turns me away.. guess that is what happens when companies become greedy.


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## tpgrole (Aug 20, 2009)

ZoSoSwiM said:


> My complaints are similar to the ones already mentioned. I'm very disappointed that they won't be officially supporting the Edge 705... My device works fine.. why upgrade?!


My understanding is that Garmin would support the 705 with the Vector but not including L/R power, just overall power.

My info comes from DCRainmaker.com, so have a look yourself and see if you read into it differently than I did. Here is the line that makes me believe the 705 will work for total power. 

"Yes, the FR310XT will get left/right power for Vector. The Edge 705 will not. But the Edge (like all ANT+ power meter compatible units) will still get total power from Vector." -quoted from DCRainmaker.com


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

tpgrole said:


> My understanding is that Garmin would support the 705 with the Vector but not including L/R power, just overall power.


I'm sure that this is the case. They will use the existing ANT+ Sport protocol for total power so that it works on all existing head units with existing firmware that support power.

Adding left/right power and any other new features (eg. power metrics like NP and TSS) requires head unit firmware changes and protocol changes too in some cases. Edge 705 (like 305 before it) is no longer a supported product, so they do not want to do more firmware development for it. As well as adding code for the new features they would have to do verification and test and deployment, and we have seen before how thinly stretched their firmware and testing resources are. 

Additionally, the Edge 705 does not support the FIT file format so they would need to add file format extensions to TCX for the left/right data, and then the tools and web services that need to read that would need updating ... etc ... I know it sucks for existing 705 owners considering Vector, but it seems like a pretty reasonable decision to me. The other area that 705 owners might miss out is on any new configuration/calibration/diagnostic features that they add to support Vector.


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## aries14 (Sep 4, 2009)

I really like the concept of the Vector. I believe it’s going to be successful in spite of the asking price. $1,500.00 is high everyone agrees, but is this data and the way we receive it worth more???? What would be a fair asking price for this gadget? 
I’m torn at this moment. Not like I can go out and grab it right this min anyway. 
I’d like to see how things settle in 8 months or so before I commit to another solution. I’ve never used power before, but every training manual I’ve read speaks highly about its benefits compared to HR and cadence alone. At this moment Vector has my attention, I’m going to play the waiting game for a while and see what happens… I like Ultegra peddles by the way and plan\hope this is achievable with Vector in time.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

tpgrole said:


> My understanding is that Garmin would support the 705 with the Vector but not including L/R power, just overall power.
> 
> My info comes from DCRainmaker.com, so have a look yourself and see if you read into it differently than I did. Here is the line that makes me believe the 705 will work for total power.
> 
> "Yes, the FR310XT will get left/right power for Vector. The Edge 705 will not. But the Edge (like all ANT+ power meter compatible units) will still get total power from Vector." -quoted from DCRainmaker.com


So what? I want TSS/NP/IF/L&R etc etc. 

Garmin is notorious for stopping any firmware support of their old units, and it pisses me off.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

aries14 said:


> I really like the concept of the Vector. I believe it’s going to be successful in spite of the asking price. $1,500.00 is high everyone agrees, but is this data and the way we receive it worth more???? What would be a fair asking price for this gadget?
> I’m torn at this moment. Not like I can go out and grab it right this min anyway.
> I’d like to see how things settle in 8 months or so before I commit to another solution. I’ve never used power before, but every training manual I’ve read speaks highly about its benefits compared to HR and cadence alone. At this moment Vector has my attention, I’m going to play the waiting game for a while and see what happens… I like Ultegra peddles by the way and plan\hope this is achievable with Vector in time.


You're better off with a Quarq at this point in time...


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

robdamanii said:


> So what? I want TSS/NP/IF/L&R etc etc.
> 
> Garmin is notorious for stopping any firmware support of their old units, and it pisses me off.


I can understand that you're upset over this. However, they have no obligation to add new additional features in firmware for an indefinite period. You knew at the point of purchase that it did not support these features, and had the choice then as to whether to give them your money or not. Bug fixes in the original functionality are another thing altogether, and I can certainly understand grievances and frustration with Garmin in that area.


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## tpgrole (Aug 20, 2009)

robdamanii said:


> So what? I want TSS/NP/IF/*L&R* etc etc.


I didn't realize that the Quarq does L/R?


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

ukbloke said:


> I can understand that you're upset over this. However, they have no obligation to add new additional features in firmware for an indefinite period. You knew at the point of purchase that it did not support these features, and had the choice then as to whether to give them your money or not. Bug fixes in the original functionality are another thing altogether, and I can certainly understand grievances and frustration with Garmin in that area.


Well, in all honesty, I didn't know that they wouldn't support it, since I've had it for about 2 years now. I'd have expected at some point in their two years they would have written those metrics into the code...


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

tpgrole said:


> I didn't realize that the Quarq does L/R?


It doesn't. But my 705 will never be supporting any of it, and that's what pisses me off.

L&R doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me, but NP, TSS and IF does.

And the Quarq is still a better system than this Garmin abomination.


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## tpgrole (Aug 20, 2009)

robdamanii said:


> So what? I want TSS/NP/IF/*L&R* etc etc.





robdamanii said:


> L&R doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me, but NP, TSS and IF does.


Sorry for the confusion, you kept insisting how the Quarq was your best option after you said you wanted L/R (but before you said it didn't matter) so I assumed you knew something I didn't. Thanks for clarifying.

I'm in the early stages of deciding whether or not a power meter is right for me, so I'm trying to keep my facts straight. I use a 310XT so the Garmin is looking like a pretty good option at a later date once the pricing starts to slide as it always does.


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## aries14 (Sep 4, 2009)

robdamanii said:


> You're better off with a Quarq at this point in time...


Because I dont know much about the Quarq, can you tell me why I'm better off with it? Keep in mind there is no rush or need to wait if I find a solution that's right. 
Because Vector moves from road bike to training bike in no time, I'm thinking this is a good option. Because L\R power calculations are captured with Vector I'm thinking this is a good option, because i have the 800 head unit, and Vector is also a Garmin product I'm thinking this is a good option to scale with.. 
looking at the video of each pedal stroke, it looks as if the vector units are far from touching the ground in the corners and also looks to be even with the crank arm when legs are extended. If that price moves south, I'm just about sold....


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

When you're spending that kind of $, wouldn't you want something you know is accurate and reliable? The Garmin _may_ prove itself to be both, much like crank or hub based units, but I wouldn't want to base my my training around something with no proven history. The Quarq isn't much more and I don't think you'll find too many people complaining about them.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

aries14 said:


> Because I dont know much about the Quarq, can you tell me why I'm better off with it? Keep in mind there is no rush or need to wait if I find a solution that's right.
> Because Vector moves from road bike to training bike in no time, I'm thinking this is a good option. Because L\R power calculations are captured with Vector I'm thinking this is a good option, because i have the 800 head unit, and Vector is also a Garmin product I'm thinking this is a good option to scale with..
> looking at the video of each pedal stroke, it looks as if the vector units are far from touching the ground in the corners and also looks to be even with the crank arm when legs are extended. If that price moves south, I'm just about sold....


You'll be waiting well beyond March. Garmin's first run products are almost unuseable with all the bugs in them, and it's generally a better idea to wait until the first bugs are ironed out.

Frankly, the Quarq is accurate, it's light, and it's durable. It can be paired with your current head unit, and will give you all the information you'll ever need. The only marginal improvement would be left/right power profiles, but it remains to be seen how accurate they are (no other way to compare results to ensure accuracy since this is the only product on the market.) It also remains to be seen how durable the Vector unit will be, and (IMHO) I'm not about to shell out that much cash to find out.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

aries14 said:


> Because Vector moves from road bike to training bike in no time, I'm thinking this is a good option.


I'd be willing to bet you can swap cranks over bike to bike faster than you can pedals, assuming a modern BB system.



aries14 said:


> Because L\R power calculations are captured with Vector I'm thinking this is a good option,


I suspect this will be the most oversold yet least understood aspect of such products.


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

pcs2 said:


> I want something that I can use on several different bikes, for training and racing and on the trainer, and <gasp> maybe some cross and mtb. So a PT is out.
> 
> So either I get an SRM/quarq, or go with the vector. I already have nice cranks that I would like to keep. The vector is cheaper, and I imagine most people will be able to get it under MSRP.


This got me curious as to whether anyone on here actually moves a Quarq or SRM between a road bike and a 'cross bike, or MTB bike. If so, I assume you swap chainrings when you do it, and then do some sort of recalibration? I'd like to know how well it works in practice, or if it turns into the sort of thing that you _could_ do, but that you never actually do.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Undecided said:


> This got me curious as to whether anyone on here actually moves a Quarq or SRM between a road bike and a 'cross bike, or MTB bike. If so, I assume you swap chainrings when you do it, and then do some sort of recalibration? I'd like to know how well it works in practice, or if it turns into the sort of thing that you _could_ do, but that you never actually do.


I use a Quarq. Apparently they calibrate the unit to the stiffness of each ring. There is no way that I know of as a user to do that.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

woodys737 said:


> I use a Quarq. Apparently they calibrate the unit to the stiffness of each ring. There is no way that I know of as a user to do that.


Supposedly, Quarq was working on a smartphone app that would allow users to connect to the Cinquo and recalibrate the unit after swapping chainrings. I don't know if they ever made any headway on it, but they were talking about it.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

robdamanii said:


> Supposedly, Quarq was working on a smartphone app that would allow users to connect to the Cinquo and recalibrate the unit after swapping chainrings. I don't know if they ever made any headway on it, but they were talking about it.


That would be amazing. With all the tech out there it seems like it's just a matter of time. Probably a very smart business decision as riders are looking to use one unit on multiple bikes...Anyone that can do that will corner the market. The pedal system had such promise.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

woodys737 said:


> That would be amazing. With all the tech out there it seems like it's just a matter of time. Probably a very smart business decision as riders are looking to use one unit on multiple bikes...Anyone that can do that will corner the market. The pedal system had such promise.


They released it a few months - its called Qalvin and its an iPhone app. You also need a calibrated heavy weight to hang off the pedal. The main reason is indeed to allow users to recalibrate when changing chain rings, or to compensate for "drift" over time, or just to convince themselves that the calibration is good. It probably appeases the Wattage forum where they always want to have user accessible buttons for calibration.

I can imagine someone swapping their Quarq between road bikes or a TT bike on a regular basis as long as they don't change chain-rings. I can't see many people doing this between a road bike and a mountain bike or cross bike on a regular basis because of the hassle of changing the chain rings. I suppose you could pre-calibrate them and know what settings to use. I know that some high-end mountain bikes now have doubles, but I don't know if they use a road-bike compatible BB and cranks (isn't Q factor quite different?). Also you probably want a much smaller chain ring on the MTB than a 39, and maybe smaller than a 34 too.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

robdamanii said:


> My question also remains as to how this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Its called Market Share. Look sells more pedals than Speedplay, period. Also maybe Exustar gave them a better deal.

I think its overpriced as well.

If Garmin wanted power for the People, a MSRP around $699 would be it.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

DIRT BOY said:


> Its called Market Share. Look sells more pedals than Speedplay, period. Also maybe Exustar gave them a better deal.
> 
> I think its overpriced as well.
> 
> If Garmin wanted power for the People, a MSRP around $699 would be it.


I didn't mean the pedal, I meant the billboard sized transmitter.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

woodys737 said:


> That would be amazing. With all the tech out there it seems like it's just a matter of time. Probably a very smart business decision as riders are looking to use one unit on multiple bikes...Anyone that can do that will corner the market. The pedal system had such promise.


Here was where I read it:

DC Rainmaker: A look at Quarq’s new Power Meter Configuration/Diag App, and Dual-SRM mode


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

It's nice that they are kinda making software, but it would seem that if you don't have an iPhone or other mac product to run this, you're SOL. To be honest, between stage races or multiple race weekends, I don't want to be calibrating a power meter.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

spade2you said:


> It's nice that they are kinda making software, but it would seem that if you don't have an iPhone or other mac product to run this, you're SOL. To be honest, between stage races or multiple race weekends, I don't want to be calibrating a power meter.


The idea of the Cinquo is to "set it and forget it." 

The iDevice app seems to be for those who switch chainrings, those who have neuroses about the accuracy of their equipment, or shop rats who have to work on these kinds of devices.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

robdamanii said:


> The idea of the Cinquo is to "set it and forget it."
> 
> The iDevice app seems to be for those who switch chainrings, those who have neuroses about the accuracy of their equipment, or shop rats who have to work on these kinds of devices.


I guess it might be interesting to note how much accuracy/precision is lost between changing chainrings without calibration. 

I like how mine is set, so I can forget.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

Qalvin iPhone ap for checking/setting Quarq calibration is only an iPhone ap because currently there isn't an Android ap that can communicate with ANT devices.

There is a linux open source code application for laptops/PCs called quarqd but it isn't user friendly.

Changing rings and/or bolt torques may affect calibration, so when swapping a Quarq or SRM across bikes, most who do that are not changing chain rings. Usually from road to road bike or road to TT bike is typical.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Alex_Simmons/RST said:


> Changing rings and/or bolt torques may affect calibration, so when swapping a Quarq or SRM across bikes, most who do that are not changing chain rings. Usually from road to road bike or road to TT bike is typical.


It would have been pertinent for me to mention I use different chain rings, but I'm not so bright sometimes, most of the time. Compact on road and standard on TT bike. Thought about getting a compact spider and both sets of rings, but having to change road bike to TT bike then back to road and calibrate seems....meh.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

DC Rainmaker has a big update on Garmin Vector from InterBike.


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## drew55 (Jan 21, 2008)

kbiker3111 said:


> I'm not sure why everyone is so bent out of shape over the price. Its got more features than a powertap, why would you undercut the market when you could make more money? Sure, two years ago they were said to be 'targeting' a sub 1k pricepoint, but so much has changed since then.
> 
> I'll be interested when my current powertap is running out of legs and I'm sure they've worked the bugs out.


Sure, lots of things have changed since then gas cost almost twice as much, eating up disposable income that could have been used for things like this.


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

drew55 said:


> Sure, lots of things have changed since then gas cost almost twice as much, eating up disposable income that could have been used for things like this.


And you can now get a complete wheel with a PowerTap Pro+ for $675, new from Competitive Cyclist.


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## pcs2 (Sep 4, 2006)

so.....hard.....to ....resist....competitive cyclist.......prices......on PT......

875$ for a 2011 SL+ wheel............

Going to be real hard to wait for vector. Now I just need someone in the states to be my middleman. LBS here want over 1100$ CDN for a Pro+ wheel from 2010....gah.....distributors up here suck


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## tpgrole (Aug 20, 2009)

pcs2 said:


> so.....hard.....to ....resist....competitive cyclist.......prices......on PT......
> 
> 875$ for a 2011 SL+ wheel............
> 
> ...


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## pcs2 (Sep 4, 2006)

tpgrole said:


> Agree.. I'm really considering the CC SL+ deal or Neuvation has the Pro+ for about $700 shipped.


The neuvation deal looks pretty good too, and I much prefer USPS shipping to Canada, less likely to get hit by customs fees than with UPS.


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## pcs2 (Sep 4, 2006)

tpgrole said:


> Agree.. I'm really considering the CC SL+ deal or Neuvation has the Pro+ for about $700 shipped.


Actually, I just looked at the Neuvation site and it's the SL+ that's on close out for 695$.......


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## pcs2 (Sep 4, 2006)

So I just got the PT SL+ from neuvation. 625 USD with the 10% newsletter discount. 

I couldn't pass on the price compared to the vector.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

Yeah, same here. After seeing the pedals Garmin will use I gave up waiting and just went Powertap as well.


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## cru_jones (Nov 29, 2009)

Friend of mine selling a BB30 std ring Quarq for $1100 with approx. 1300 miles.....worth it or go for the Neuvation PT deal?


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

cru_jones said:


> Friend of mine selling a BB30 std ring Quarq for $1100 with approx. 1300 miles.....worth it or go for the Neuvation PT deal?


Assuming BB30 and standard rings are what you want, I would go Quarq at that price. The main advantage is that this gives you complete freedom in your choice of wheels. The Neuvation deal is nice and very tempting, but only if you can live with that rear wheel for all rides where you want to measure power.


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## cru_jones (Nov 29, 2009)

ukbloke said:


> Assuming BB30 and standard rings are what you want, I would go Quarq at that price. The main advantage is that this gives you complete freedom in your choice of wheels. The Neuvation deal is nice and very tempting, but only if you can live with that rear wheel for all rides where you want to measure power.


My current, only and until further notice frame is BB30 and I only run standard rings. This would be displacing a Force BB30 set so hopefully I won't notice much difference. Not really concerned about the weight.

I don't race, but my road bike is training for MTB racing, so I do alot of intervals on the trainer and long zone 2-3 rides in the off-season. Moving up to CAT 1 mtb next year, so ready to get more serious about training.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

Sounds like either system would work for you as you only plan to use the bike with power for training.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

cru_jones said:


> I don't race, but my road bike is training for MTB racing, so I do alot of intervals on the trainer and long zone 2-3 rides in the off-season. Moving up to CAT 1 mtb next year, so ready to get more serious about training.


Since you are training on the road bike, that does change things. Both the Quarq and the PowerTap perform exactly the same function in terms of measuring power and the rest is just price, weight and convenience trade-offs. One might say just say go with the cheaper option. However, if you want to use a trainer-specific tire on the trainer and a road tire on the road (many do this), then going with the PowerTap would add an inconvenience.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

cru_jones said:


> Friend of mine selling a BB30 std ring Quarq for $1100 with approx. 1300 miles.....worth it or go for the Neuvation PT deal?


At that price, I'd be all over it. The Quarq will maintain resale value much better than the PowerTap as well.


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