# So this Froome clowm won the Tour de France again?



## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

This loser didn't win a single stage
Wasn't the best at any discipline (sprinting, climbing, TT, etc...)

So the Tour de France is won by the guy who sits on his teams wheels better than anyone else?

And he's still not even the top ranked World Tour rider (GvA still owns that)
Van Avermaet still top of WorldTour rankings after Tour de France | Cyclingnews.com


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Bzzzt, thanks for playing but you demonstrated that you don't know much about pro grand tour racing.

This might be interesting - how would *you* change the rules if *you* were put in charge of them?


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Migen21 said:


> This loser didn't win a single stage
> Wasn't the best at any discipline (sprinting, climbing, TT, etc...)
> 
> So the Tour de France is won by the guy who sits on his teams wheels better than anyone else?
> ...


Pissed you didnt get a trophy for watching?


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

Isn’t the yellow jersey specifically for riders who are a jack-of-all-trades in cycling? Riders who kill themselves for individual stage wins ride a different race.

If he had won stages, no doubt he’d be the hot topic in the Doping forum.

If you want to be pissed about something, OP, be pissed about DeGendt getting robbed from winning the prize for most combative overall.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Yea...Froome was going to win the GC before the race even started. His fiercest competition was his own team riding off the roads, and his bikes giving out under him.

Sounds more like UK Postal when put that way golly gee.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

What hurts is that a man who rides with all the form of an octopus won the race.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

velodog said:


> What hurts is that a man who rides with all the form of an octopus won the race.



I prefer Emu or perhaps ostrich..


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## ngl (Jan 22, 2002)

I'm not going to recant the whole race but actually Bardet, Uran, Martin and Aru also sat on Team Sky's wheels. These guys had two very good chances to put Froome out of the race, but, they wouldn't "pull the trigger". Why blame Sky for this. 

There is always going to be a "richest" team and a "poorest" team at the TdF.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Migen21 said:


> This loser didn't win a single stage
> Wasn't the best at any discipline (sprinting, climbing, TT, etc...)


So you really really really don't understand how it works, which is quite simple.

The winner of the Tour de France (all 21 stages), is the person with the lowest overall time. 
Simple huh?

Winning an individual stage in the TdF is as relevant as winning an individual lap in a Crit race.


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## greatestalltime (Aug 20, 2012)

ngl said:


> I'm not going to recant the whole race but actually Bardet, Uran, Martin and Aru also sat on Team Sky's wheels. These guys had two very good chances to put Froome out of the race, but, they wouldn't "pull the trigger". Why blame Sky for this.
> 
> There is always going to be a "richest" team and a "poorest" team at the TdF.


Good point.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

Are any of the competition crying about Froome's strategy and performance?

No. They are all acknowledging they got beat like an old rug.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

One of the riders with an actual realist shot at winning due to the route layout had a season ending injury on stage one. This is despite the fact he is 37 years old. His absence also lead to his team completely falling apart and basically disappearing for the entire race.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

KoroninK said:


> One of the riders with an actual realist shot at winning due to the route layout had a season ending injury on stage one. This is despite the fact he is 37 years old. His absence also lead to his team completely falling apart and basically disappearing for the entire race.


Is there a prize if we can guess who you refer to in less than three attempts?


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

KoroninK said:


> One of the riders with an actual realist shot at winning due to the route layout had a season ending injury on stage one. This is despite the fact he is 37 years old. His absence also lead to his team completely falling apart and basically disappearing for the entire race.


Yea...he had no team to speak of,and stood zero chance of winning GC


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Marc said:


> Yea...he had no team to speak of,and stood zero chance of winning GC


That team fell apart when he got hurt. On paper it was a fairly strong team. Most of the mountain stages this year were very good for him. This is not the first time that team has fallen apart and disappeared without him to lead them. They did the same for a year and a half when he was given his doping ban.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

I coulda won with all of Team Sky pulling me and protecting me the whole way.


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## harryman (Nov 14, 2014)

I don't blame Froome, he did what was needed to win, his team was the strongest, they have the most money. If the ASO wants the TDF to keep eyeballs on it, it needs to significantly change the race to reflect the current state of cycling competition and sporting events. If they want the race to more dynamic in the post "everyone dopes" era, they need to reward risk. Not as in danger, as in, reward attacks and death or glory breakaways. I'm tired of the GC guys riding the climbs together, eyeballing each other while the commentators try to make every little test sound like an attack that will break the race apart. And, then they all come back together.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

Migen21 said:


> This loser didn't win a single stage


He could have burnt more to win a stage or two and have less in reserve for the next stage. Do you think that's a good strategy?


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

bvber said:


> He could have burnt more to win a stage or two and have less in reserve for the next stage. Do you think that's a good strategy?


That is what TUEs are for, am I right?


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## n2deep (Mar 23, 2014)

bvber said:


> He could have burnt more to win a stage or two and have less in reserve for the next stage. Do you think that's a good strategy?


 Let me see if I get this straight,, someone with so little passion gets to suck the wheels off his team for 19 stages, have the freshest legs and actually rides well on one stage (20[SUP]th[/SUP]) and he gets to ride into Paris as the winner? Not a great story line!!!!


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

bvber said:


> He could have burnt more to win a stage or two and have less in reserve for the next stage. Do you think that's a good strategy?


He is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. When he has attacked in previous TdFs, the cry of doper went up and all the UK Postal comments from the morons followed. When he doesn't attack, he is accused of being boring


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

n2deep said:


> Let me see if I get this straight,, someone with so little passion gets to suck the wheels off his team for 19 stages, have the freshest legs and actually rides well on one stage (20[SUP]th[/SUP]) and he gets to ride into Paris as the winner? Not a great story line!!!!


Did you miss the part where all the competitors were sucking the exact same wheels?

Uran, Bardet, and Aru all sucked Froomes wheel the entire time. So they should've had even fresher legs.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

I would not compare UK Postal to US Postal. At least with Lance, that mofo did put on a good show as he usually liked to attack and mix it up on the mountains. Froome, not so much, just looks down at power meter and for his teammates while yabbing on the radio for strategies.


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## troutmd (Sep 7, 2007)

2 minute time bonus for each stage victory and 3 for MTF stage.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

PJay said:


> Are any of the competition crying about Froome's strategy and performance?
> 
> No. They are all acknowledging they got beat like an old rug.


Yes, they understand what GTs are about and we can see them all starting to adopt the same strategy although that got derailed in BMCs case at an early point. AG2R were to be seen with massed domestiques on many of the climbs and often outnumbered Sky, although the didn't have the same strength in depth. They just need to find or develop someone who can climb and TT and they will be ready to mount a real challenge. The real pity this year is that Porte could (I repeat could) have been that person


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

coldash said:


> Yes, they understand what GTs are about and we can see them all starting to adopt the same strategy although that got derailed in BMCs case at an early point. AG2R were to be seen with massed domestiques on many of the climbs and often outnumbered Sky, although the didn't have the same strength in depth. They just need to find or develop someone who can climb and TT and they will be ready to mount a real challenge. The real pity this year is that Porte could (I repeat could) have been that person


I hate to say this but they need to take out any dangerous or risky descent right before the finish, make it strictly a mountain top finish. This will level out the playing field for guys who are timid on the down. I know, descending is a part of the sport, but sh&* at the same time it's bad when one of top hopeful crashed and another one (Martin) affected by such crash (not of his doing), very bad for GC battle.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

n2deep said:


> Let me see if I get this straight,, someone with so little passion gets to suck the wheels off his team for 19 stages, have the freshest legs and actually rides well on one stage (20[SUP]th[/SUP]) and he gets to ride into Paris as the winner? Not a great story line!!!!


Perhaps the story line guided by the race's winning requirement itself.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

coldash said:


> He is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. When he has attacked in previous TdFs, the cry of doper went up and all the UK Postal comments from the morons followed. When he doesn't attack, he is accused of being boring


The trick is to ignore them.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

troutmd said:


> 2 minute time bonus for each stage victory and 3 for MTF stage.


I like this idea. 

However, in order for this idea to work as closely as intended, we should also modify some things too. Namely, make the stage shorter and with more steep punch hills, this will encourage more attacks. If the race is too long and drawn out, then the dominating GC teams will be able to control the breakaways, which will discourage people from attempting to breakaway.

And honestly as fans, who the hell want to watch 4-5 hours of racing comprising of mostly non actions. Make it 2 hours or less, 3 hours max! But then, I have no doubt there will be now other people who say a shorter race is not a real "test of endurance".


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Cyclingnews' and Team Sky's take on it:

Adaption and development the keys to Chris Froome’s Tour de France success | Cyclingnews.com


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

aclinjury said:


> I like this idea.
> 
> However, in order for this idea to work as closely as intended, we should also modify some things too. Namely, make the stage shorter and with more steep punch hills, this will encourage more attacks. If the race is too long and drawn out, then the dominating GC teams will be able to control the breakaways, which will discourage people from attempting to breakaway.
> 
> *And honestly as fans, who the hell want to watch 4-5 hours of racing comprising of mostly non actions.* Make it 2 hours or less, 3 hours max! But then, I have no doubt there will be now other people who say a shorter race is not a real "test of endurance".


Thing is in France the live (in) action is a big deal. It is on TV in cafes as a sort of background activity / talking point and spectators are out on the road in all of the towns and villages on the route. The caravan that goes thru before the rides and hand out the freebies is a crowd puller. These places compete to get the Tour and that and the background advertising are a real money earner.

From an international point of view, especially in a different time zone, and on TV much of the above is just a preamble to the end of stage action - but it is essentially a French event with some international exposure and I don't expect the French will be in any hurry to give up their tradition to satisfy what is a minority interest in other parts of the world.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Another interesting piece on Sky's dominance:

Team SKY's Wealth Delivers the Talent - Peloton Magazine


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

coldash said:


> Thing is in France the live (in) action is a big deal. It is on TV in cafes as a sort of background activity / talking point and spectators are out on the road in all of the towns and villages on the route. The caravan that goes thru before the rides and hand out the freebies is a crowd puller. These places compete to get the Tour and that and the background advertising are a real money earner.
> 
> From an international point of view, especially in a different time zone, and on TV much of the above is just a preamble to the end of stage action - but it is essentially a French event with some international exposure and I don't expect the French will be in any hurry to give up their tradition to satisfy what is a minority interest in other parts of the world.


ah excellent point! I'm ignorant of this stuff eh. I guess I have been conditioned to being an "American sports fan ", meaning we want to see lots of actions, quickly, else we're running errands.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

aclinjury said:


> ah excellent point! I'm ignorant of this stuff eh. I guess I have been conditioned to being an "American sports fan ", meaning we want to see lots of actions, quickly, else we're running errands.


really? american football is essentially one long discussion session broken up by a few kick and runs. Baseball and quickly?


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## n2deep (Mar 23, 2014)

tlg said:


> Did you miss the part where all the competitors were sucking the exact same wheels? Uran, Bardet, and Aru all sucked Froomes wheel the entire time. So they should've had even fresher legs.


I understand the strategies and that Froome is playing the smart card,, however,, it makes this years race totally un-inspiring and sterile.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

n2deep said:


> I understand the strategies and that Froome is playing the smart card,, however,, it makes this years race totally un-inspiring and sterile.


It's the same strategy since the invention of teams.
And this was one of the closest TdF GC in decades.

When exactly do you think the tour was more inspiring? Have you watched the past decade?


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

den bakker said:


> really? american football is essentially one long discussion session broken up by a few kick and runs. Baseball and quickly?


I kind of have to agree with this some. Soccer, golf, baseball, softball, tennis, NASCAR, F1, Indy, running, lacrosse, bowling, and some track and field events, etc. that we completely embrace as Americans are all about as slow with moments of intermittent action as cycling is. I personally think one day races are a lot more exciting because it eliminates some of the games and encourages all out racing from the start, but I in no way hate stage racing or consider American slow sports to somehow be inherently superior. They are just different sports and it's different strokes for different folks.


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## hfc (Jan 24, 2003)

I thought this was a great tour. My biggest problem with Froome, like another poster says, is his riding style. I think it looks like his chamois is too think and irritating his taint.

I think we'll see more of the shorter mountain stages in the future as that encourages more aggressive riding.


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## BCSaltchucker (Jul 20, 2011)

The ASO tried to rig the route to suit Bardet. All that did was force Froome to play an even more conservative game and Sky to control the race more firmly. And rightfully so, because the win is determined by GC.

Someone mentioned upping the time bonuses. Not a bad idea imho. That would change the whole race fundamentally though, from a pure GC game. pros and cons

Froome is one of the sport's greatest champions now. Gotta respect that he wins the biggest toughest event for 4 years now. I really like the guy, too. And in past years he has done some really daring attacks, and scored amazing stage wins. It was the competition that failed to light up the race - they are still not strong enough to break things up, even when the time spacing is so nervously close.

(Desperately believe and hope this era stands the test of time as a clean one, but we'll not know for 10-20 years for sure.)

and no, Valverde had no hope of winning this Tour. Fantastic champion he is, but no Tour winner esp not at 37.


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## harryman (Nov 14, 2014)

tlg said:


> It's the same strategy since the invention of teams.
> And this was one of the closest TdF GC in decades.
> 
> When exactly do you think the tour was more inspiring? Have you watched the past decade?


Doping made it more exciting with guys trying superhuman attacks and whoever had the best program had a clear advantage. Now, with riders being mere mortals more or less, they can't attack relentlessly and stay off the front alone for 80k with a broken collarbone. Ah, the good old days... 

Didn't you guys see this? Interesting ideas 

5 Ways To Liven Up the Tour de France | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos


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## Eretz (Jul 21, 2012)

harryman said:


> Doping made it more exciting with guys trying superhuman attacks and whoever had the best program had a clear advantage. Now, with riders being mere mortals more or less, they can't attack relentlessly and stay off the front alone for 80k with a broken collarbone. Ah, the good old days... ..... Snip


Greg Lemond had several interviews that made me worrisome over "mechanical" versus pharma advantages.

Tour de France 2017 - Greg LeMond: I am still sceptical of Team Sky and Dave Brailsford

Greg LeMond: Miracles in cycling still don't exist | Cyclingnews.com


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## El Scorcho (Dec 14, 2005)

The real issue is that Froome has no charisma and his lack of panache and style makes everybody want to throw rocks at him. 

A


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

I have to agree with many posters here. His riding style is awful. The head bob, the elbows, yeeeeash


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

Just curious, whose riding style is considered good to look at?


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

bvber said:


> Just curious, whose riding style is considered good to look at?


Valverde would be one. When you watch him you can see that he is an extension of his bike. Froome looks like he is fighting his bike. (Valverde is a perfectionist when it comes to his positioning on the bike.) Cancellara would be another one to watch, esp when he was doing time trials.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

it's amusing that someone with a funky riding style can win the the TdF multiple times.

gives hope to those of us with less than perfect techniques...


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