# Sticky  Chinese Carbon Thread and Ebay direct version 6.0



## adam_mac84

I am thinking i will be ordering an FM028 60cm from http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/.

The frame/fork combo was quoted to me at $360 (+80 shipping)

What else did you folks order from their website before checking out? The site is a bit hard to navigate, but did you source your additional parts (BB, headset, spacers, bars, stem etc) locally or right on their site?.

I hope to complete a build for under $1500 with SRAM apex (or next group up). I have surgery in 2 weeks, so i will have lots of time to investigate and search for parts/deals

Any other information for a chinabike newbie would be very much apreciated... i have read the stickies, and look forward to having a less common billboard bike

Has this bike been stiff enough for you guys/gals? I would assume most people needing a 60cm bike would be a larger individual, and for us stiffness can be a premium.


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## vis8892

adam_mac84 said:


> I am thinking i will be ordering an FM028 60cm from http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/.
> 
> The frame/fork combo was quoted to me at $360 (+80 shipping)
> 
> What else did you folks order from their website before checking out? The site is a bit hard to navigate, but did you source your additional parts (BB, headset, spacers, bars, stem etc) locally or right on their site?.
> 
> I hope to complete a build for under $1500 with SRAM apex (or next group up). I have surgery in 2 weeks, so i will have lots of time to investigate and search for parts/deals
> 
> Any other information for a chinabike newbie would be very much apreciated... i have read the stickies, and look forward to having a less common billboard bike
> 
> Has this bike been stiff enough for you guys/gals? I would assume most people needing a 60cm bike would be a larger individual, and for us stiffness can be a premium.


Just recently bought an FM015-ISP from DengFu. No problems. In addition to the frame and fork I bought headset, handlebars, stem and bottle cages. I don't think everything they can get is on their website. Start a conversation with Tony and tell him what you want. Check other supplier websites (like HongFu - http://www.e-hongfu-bikes.com/ ) or get the catalog from Miracle-Trading (https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B_...jljNTM4MDQwNmRk&sort=name&layout=list&num=50). If you find something you want, then ask Tony for the specific part number - he'll tell you if he can get it or what parts he has. DengFu did not negotiate any prices (but neither did HongFu or Miracle-Trading) and remember they have a 3.8% fee for paypal (HongFu is 4%, don't know if Miracle-Trading takes paypal).


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## roscoe

at that price point you're paying a lot for a no-name frame 

the base CF specicalized bikes, or neuvation, or many other options from real bike makers are available in that price range


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## karlo

Talk to them directly it's much faster and easier than sending emails back and forth, here is their contact info, I talked to them all the time with the Alibaba Chat tool (remember time difference)

I bought the Frame, Fork, Headset, Handlebar, 2 x Cages, Seatpost, Clamp, Spacers, Painted Matte, Paypal fee and Shipping for $600

Tony:
msn - [email protected]
[email protected]

Mina:
[email protected]

This is my current build of the FM015, received it in 4 days.
For larger pic click here: http://gabeadz.com/karlo/images/gallery/hobbies/My Bike/KGDC/kgdc-9.JPG


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## nealric

> at that price point you're paying a lot for a no-name frame
> 
> the base CF specicalized bikes, or neuvation, or many other options from real bike makers are available in that price range


Yeah, except those base Specialized frames probably weigh twice as much. Plus, a lot of people buy the Chinese fames precisely because they are not plastered with brand names.


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## robpar

roscoe said:


> at that price point you're paying a lot for a no-name frame
> 
> the base CF specicalized bikes, or neuvation, or many other options from real bike makers are available in that price range


Neuvation does not sell framesets; only complete bikes...


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## robpar

I would get a couple of spare RD hangers....


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## krisdrum

robpar said:


> Neuvation does not sell framesets; only complete bikes...


Not true at all. Search: frame


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## ColoRoadie

krisdrum said:


> Not true at all. Search: frame


That bike is not a carbon fiber bike 

According to that link - _The frame uses an alloy bottom bracket, seat cluster and head tube_........ which means it's a metal lugged with carbon tubes. Clearly seen in the pics of it.

...and it's double the price I paid for my 'real' carbon frame complete.


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## krisdrum

ColoRoadie said:


> That bike is not a carbon fiber bike
> 
> According to that link - _The frame uses an alloy bottom bracket, seat cluster and head tube_........ which means it's a metal lugged with carbon tubes. Clearly seen in the pics of it.
> 
> ...and it's double the price I paid for my 'real' carbon frame complete.


The original poster of the comment wasn't specific. It was a general correction. You can get as nit-picky as you want, but Neuvation does sell framesets. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## ColoRoadie

krisdrum said:


> The original poster of the comment wasn't specific. It was a general correction. You can get as nit-picky as you want, but Neuvation does sell framesets. Nothing more, nothing less.


Not to pick nits, but when you say nothing more, nothing less, you mean more money for less carbon fiber and a far easier to build frame...right? The original poster quoted an FM028 from dengfu which is a full carbon monocoque frame...not tubes glued into metal lugs.

The fact is, I have not seen any of the major brands selling a carbon fiber frame anywhere near the price point quoted here. I'm not saying they don't, but I am saying I have not seen any. If they do exist, myself and others would be interested in seeing them and will thank you for showing them to us..but posting that they are available in that range and then posting the Neuvation frame as an example of said frames is misleading...since it is neither a comparable frame nor a comparable price.


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## krisdrum

ColoRoadie said:


> Not to pick nits, but when you say nothing more, nothing less, you mean more money for less carbon fiber and a far easier to build frame...right? The original poster quoted an FM028 from dengfu which is a full carbon monocoque frame...not tubes glued into metal lugs.
> 
> The fact is, I have not seen any of the major brands selling a carbon fiber frame anywhere near the price point quoted here. I'm not saying they don't, but I am saying I have not seen any. If they do exist, myself and others would be interested in seeing them and will thank you for showing them to us..but posting that they are available in that range and then posting the Neuvation frame as an example of said frames is misleading...since it is neither a comparable frame nor a comparable price.


Let me be absolutely clear. Someone posted that Neuvation does not sell framesets. I posted that the statement is false and provided a link to clearly demonstrate that. I made no other comment about anything else. I was simply correcting the misinformation that Neuvation does not sell framesets.

Anything more you want to read into it or expand upon that from is your agenda. If the OP or anyone else feels more informed or that they have more choices to consider, I've accomplished my job.


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## roscoe

ColoRoadie said:


> Not to pick nits, but when you say nothing more, nothing less, you mean more money for less carbon fiber and a far easier to build frame...right? The original poster quoted an FM028 from dengfu which is a full carbon monocoque frame...not tubes glued into metal lugs.
> 
> The fact is, I have not seen any of the major brands selling a carbon fiber frame anywhere near the price point quoted here. I'm not saying they don't, but I am saying I have not seen any. If they do exist, myself and others would be interested in seeing them and will thank you for showing them to us..but posting that they are available in that range and then posting the Neuvation frame as an example of said frames is misleading...since it is neither a comparable frame nor a comparable price.


I'm seeing 2011 spec roubaix and tarmacs with apex for $1800 locally, they're not the only big name with a full carbon bike in that range (and closeout stuff will be even cheaper if it's still around) 

when you look at frame alone, sure the hongfu stuff looks like a good value, but if you've got to buy all the other components that make a bicycle then the value's not as strong

if our OP already has a groupset, wheels, etc on hand than the cheap frame makes more sense, if he's planning on purchasing all the items, then buying a complete bike makes more sense 

our OP's budget would allow for some pretty nice complete bikes


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## FTR

roscoe said:


> I'm seeing 2011 spec roubaix and tarmacs with apex for $1800 locally, they're not the only big name with a full carbon bike in that range (and closeout stuff will be even cheaper if it's still around)
> 
> when you look at frame alone, sure the hongfu stuff looks like a good value, but if you've got to buy all the other components that make a bicycle then the value's not as strong
> 
> if our OP already has a groupset, wheels, etc on hand than the cheap frame makes more sense, if he's planning on purchasing all the items, then buying a complete bike makes more sense
> 
> our OP's budget would allow for some pretty nice complete bikes


What??
I could build a Dengfu with Ultegra and a REALLY nice build kit for around that price.


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## nealric

> I'm seeing 2011 spec roubaix and tarmacs with apex for $1800 locally, they're not the only big name with a full carbon bike in that range (and closeout stuff will be even cheaper if it's still around)
> 
> when you look at frame alone, sure the hongfu stuff looks like a good value, but if you've got to buy all the other components that make a bicycle then the value's not as strong
> 
> if our OP already has a groupset, wheels, etc on hand than the cheap frame makes more sense, if he's planning on purchasing all the items, then buying a complete bike makes more sense
> 
> our OP's budget would allow for some pretty nice complete bikes


A friend of mine built a Hong-fu with SRAM Force and a 1400g wheelset for $1,500. No way you are getting even in that ballpark buying a Trek or Specialized.


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## roscoe

nealric said:


> A friend of mine built a Hong-fu with SRAM Force and a 1400g wheelset for $1,500. No way you are getting even in that ballpark buying a Trek or Specialized.


I think you'll find friends generally forget to include freight, or customs fees in their budget number they tell you. 

our OP was talking about "hoping" to keep an apex bike with a china carbon frame under $1500, maybe that's an easy thing to do, maybe it's not

if you're looking at a china carbon bike with apex for $1500 bucks vs what you can get at a LBS for $1500 bucks, there's some pretty good competition for the china bike 

it's easy to lose track of your budget when buying a bit here and a bit there, then at the end look at all your recipts and feel like banging your head into the wall 

if our OP goes china bike, he should really carefully keep track of the budget so he doesn't end up with a china bike that cost more than a name brand bike with a warranty. 
(which I'm sure he's fully capable of)


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## nealric

> I think you'll find friends generally forget to include freight, or customs fees in their budget number they tell you.


Nope. I helped him order everything. No customs fees on China frames for most people. Shipping for most parts was less than retail sales tax. It did include some ebay finds- but building from the ground up allows you to do that. I'm also building up a TT bike (sans wheelset) for under $1,000 from a (very slightly) used deng-fu frame right now. I would have a very hard time finding what I want as a complete bike. Part of the appeal is that you can choose every single component. 



> if you're looking at a china carbon bike with apex for $1500 bucks vs what you can get at a LBS for $1500 bucks, there's some pretty good competition for the china bike


It generally doesn't make sense to build your own bike if you are going for low-end components. I find it's much harder to find deals on stuff like apex groupsets than higher end groupsets. But if you are willing to put in the effort looking for deals, you can get a high-end equipped bike for the price of a low-end one.


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## FTR

Frame fork - $450 shipped
Yishun carbon clinchers - say $500
Ultegra groupset - $800 approx (Chain Reaction)
So $1750 plus change for stem, bars, seatpost saddle

I think I will take that over a bottom end Specialized or Trek with Apex.


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## nealric

> So $1750 plus change for stem, bars, seatpost saddle


And you can get the stem/bars/seatpost/saddle for penuts through the Chinese vendors. frame/sork/seatpost/headset/stem/bottle cages/saddle for $650 or so.


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## karlo

nealric said:


> And you can get the stem/bars/seatpost/saddle for penuts through the Chinese vendors. frame/sork/seatpost/headset/stem/bottle cages/saddle for $650 or so.


SP002 = Seatpost


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## FTR

OP
I would check out Ultegra rather than Apex.
Looks like the UK sellers have Ultegra for only $100 more than Apex at the moment.
My next build will be Shimano over SRAM just on price.


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## wmsx4

When you start shopping for a group check out GVH Bikes on the web. I had a good experience delaing with them and you can customize your build kit to get just what you need.


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## adam_mac84

Thanks alot for the responses everyone. I am going to put togather a parts/price list. It seems like nearly all carbon road bikes out there are at the 2k level in frames geometries that fit me (key point).

Is anyone riding daily on the carbon clinchers? I am about 220#, and saw those on the site (according to my alibaba chat, they only had tubulars which are not of interest to me). Curious to hear some thoughts about them.

I am currently looking around for group sets. My area doesn't have much on craigslist unfortunately. It's going to ebay or online likely


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## St.Zu

http://cycleclubsports.com/cat-build-groups.cfm
Check these guys out. They have pretty competitive prices on groups. I have bought a couple of things from them and have had an overall great experience.


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## ColoRoadie

Campagnolo Athena 11 speed groups on ebay for $800 ish. I pieced together a Chorus/Athena 11 speed for quite a bit less just by watching for deals. Runs like a wet dream.


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## gb155

Hi Guys

Whats the FM 015 Seat Post Clamp Size ?

I posted in the epic topic but it got buried, so started this.

Thanks


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## thebender

It takes a 34.9 mm clamp, 31.6 mm seatpost and 34.9 mm front derailleur. I am just finishing up my FM015 build!


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## gb155

thebender said:


> It takes a 34.9 mm clamp, 31.6 mm seatpost and 34.9 mm front derailleur. I am just finishing up my FM015 build!


Thanks I've ordered one


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## gb155

thebender said:


> It takes a 34.9 mm clamp, 31.6 mm seatpost and 34.9 mm front derailleur. I am just finishing up my FM015 build!


I ordered a 31.6mm seat post clamp but it's too small

Does anyone know the correct size ?


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## dcurzon

looking at thebenders post... the seatpost itself should be 31.6mm, the seatpost CLAMP should be 34.9mm and likewise the clamp on d/r also 34.9mm


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## dcurzon

a wise investment would be a set of digital vernier calipers, about a tenner from ebay


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## cdhbrad

That and a short refresher course in "reading comprehension." All the info the OP needed was in the first reply to his post....."It takes a 34.9 mm clamp, 31.6 mm seatpost ......" but the OP ordered a 31.6mm seatpost clamp and wonders why it it too small?


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## gb155

How STUPID Am I?

You dont need to answer


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## dcurzon

imagine how dumb the average person is. Half the population is dumber than that 

easy mistake to make, and everyone makes them at some point


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## SLC_Specialized

*FM-28 and BB30*

Lurker, finally taking the plunge and getting an FM-28 non-isp for the wifey.

Shot an e-mail to Jenny to get the latest prices, etc.

A couple quick questions,

What kind of BB30 do I need to purchase, BB30 or Pressfit30??, will be going SRAM Force

How do they measure their handlebars?, C-C, E-E?, 

My wife's current bike has an eff top tube of 533mm, so I am thinking a 51 or 53cm??

Happy with their 50mm carbon clinchers?

Thanks in advance


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## Coolhand

Here is the link to 5.0. http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...ead-ebay-direct-version-5-0-a-241785-240.html

All of the threads/posts on the generic Chinese carbon frames go here.


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## Kupkake

Anyone know anything on the FR313?
Search Ebay, but it looks similar to an R3.. Square tubes. ect.


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## Vee

Thread version 6.0 is live.


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## PaxRomana

In on the fun.


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## persondude27

Kupkake said:


> Anyone know anything on the FR313?
> Search Ebay, but it looks similar to an R3.. Square tubes. ect.


e_baygoods (did we decide that was Dengfu?) has a frame/fork/seatpost/handlebar/cages/saddle setup for $580 US. That's pretty close to what I paid for my FM015 from Hongfu, except I had mine painted and didn't get a saddle.

It looks like a good deal, if they're in good shape, but they appear to only sell a size 52. Bummersauce. Give me a call when they're selling 56s!

edit: Looks like a slightly different Pedalforce CG2


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## Coolhand

Thanks to everyone who made 5.0 a success. Now let's fill this sucker up with pictures of your rides. :thumbsup:


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## Kupkake

persondude27 said:


> but they appear to only sell a size 52.


Well good thing I fit 52cm.. usually.

Anyway, its looks like a Mix Mash of RS/R5ca geo..
52cm frame is more like a 55cm
550mm TT
150mm HT height
405mm rear center (same)
73* HT


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## Crawf

wtfcyclist said:


> does anybody able to find chinese disc cyclocross frame (would be great with bb30)?:


ican sp-ac024


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## andresmuro

persondude27 said:


> e_baygoods (did we decide that was Dengfu?) has a frame/fork/seatpost/handlebar/cages/saddle setup for $580 US. That's pretty close to what I paid for my FM015 from Hongfu, except I had mine painted and didn't get a saddle.
> 
> It looks like a good deal, if they're in good shape, but they appear to only sell a size 52. Bummersauce. Give me a call when they're selling 56s!
> 
> edit: Looks like a slightly different Pedalforce CG2


ebay goods is this: FLYXI


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## bvber

andresmuro said:


> ebay goods is this: FLYXI


Is shipping cost included in their frame price? I tried to find out but to no avail.


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## skoyrtis

bvber said:


> Is shipping cost included in their frame price? I tried to find out but to no avail.


I 've bought from them a seat post before and the price included shipping...


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## mtbboy41

Hi all My Miracle MC0008 has arrived today. The box was a bit ragged but the frame was in perfect condition. Wheels sit central in the front forks and rear dropouts so I am pleased with that. It came with a neco headset which I have fitted. The crown race went on the fork quite tightly but is fitted right on the base of the steerer. The bottom bearing pushed in easily with a press and the fork fits in the frame with a gap of about 1mm. The top bearing is a press fit with fingers into the top race. When the headset cover is on no shims are needed and there is barely any gap at all . Looks good to me but I'm wondering if Serve or Rob C have any comments about the fit in their frames?
I am waiting for the Dura Ace groupset to arrive so I can start building it up. 

I had better get my post count up so I can post some pictures.
Cheers from 
Hobart Australia


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## pietervdw

bvber said:


> Is shipping cost included in their frame price? I tried to find out but to no avail.


If you buy on ebay the shipping is around $80. Bought the FR02 frame with seat post, saddle, stem, handlebar and 2x bottle cages for $620 shipped to South Africa.

Still building, will post pics ASAP

BTW communication with FLYXII was pretty good, usually got back via email within 48 hours. They sometimes used [email protected]


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## Kupkake

for anyone with a FM015..

I have a Specialized Allez in 52cm. 
If I want to match (as close as possible) the geo of my allez to the FM015, which 51cm or 53cm FM015 is going to be closer?

It looks like the 53cm is closer in size to me, but maybe someone can chime in that has one.. Looking to pull the trigger soon.


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## andresmuro

bvber said:


> Is shipping cost included in their frame price? I tried to find out but to no avail.


On ebay, the vast majority of the carbon frames, bottle holders, etc is from them. They sell under several different companies. A frame plus fork will run less than $400 shipped. Look at the stuff under carbon zone, a company with an asian name and a third one. Prices vary slightly between the companies but it is all the same stuff. They have tons of frames of different geometries and shapes.


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## Kupkake

Might have answered my Q..
I looked an didn't find this.. but here are the FM028 & FM015 stack & reach.
This allowed me to enter my Allez 52cm geo and compare... Stack & Reach calculator 

52cm Allez: Stack 546mm, Reach 380mm (baseline)
52cm FM028: Stack 556mm, Reach 376mm (10mm taller, 4mm less reach)
53cm FM015: Stack 549mm, Reach 371mm (3mm taller, 9mm less reach)
51cm FM015: Stack 538mm, Reach 367mm (8mm shorter height, 13mm shorter reach, smallest)
52cm FM313: Stack 566mm, Reach 376mm (20mm taller, 4mm less reach, largest)

Grated, at most its 1cm-4mm in most cases, also I didnt account for stem length, as I just wanted to see frame vs frame
FM028 52cm, slightly shorter reach, will get a slammed/longer stem.
FM015 53cm, very close in stack, shorter reach, will get a slammed/longer stem.

This makes sense to me.. tho maybe i'm totally wrong..


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## mmamalyga

Hi everybody,

I'm looking to pick up some carbon tubular wheels and was wondering who the majority would recommend?

Flyxii, Helin Liu, Blade X, etc.....there are too many to keep track of.

If somebody could tell me who is reliable (fast shipping, good product, etc) or at least who to stay away from it would be great!


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## zizi

stay away from all of them!!!


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## wevergo

zizi said:


> stay away from all of them!!!


stay away from this topic!!!


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## Crappymonkey

mmamalyga said:


> Hi everybody,
> 
> I'm looking to pick up some carbon tubular wheels and was wondering who the majority would recommend?
> 
> Flyxii, Helin Liu, Blade X, etc.....there are too many to keep track of.
> 
> If somebody could tell me who is reliable (fast shipping, good product, etc) or at least who to stay away from it would be great!


How about asking in the wheels and tire forum?


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## mmamalyga

Crappymonkey said:


> How about asking in the wheels and tire forum?


I searched that thread but this one seems more active


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## russd32

Well, I've been hoping to join the fun with an FM028 frame but I must smell or something. First I emailed the address on the site and every heard from them. Then I chatted with Lucky Ding on Alibaba and she said that email address wasn't any good so I sent the email to another address. Lucky got me pricing, great! I emailed Lucky again to make sure everything is in stock and get a final price with shipping and paypal and it's been about 3 days and I haven't heard a peep. WTF?

Maybe this is just a sign that it's not meant to be. Who else has the same frame? RB002 on Carbonzone...any others?


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## Kupkake

Kupkake said:


> Might have answered my Q..
> I looked an didn't find this.. but here are the FM028 & FM015 stack & reach.
> This allowed me to enter my Allez 52cm geo and compare... Stack & Reach calculator
> 
> 52cm Allez: Stack 546mm, Reach 380mm (baseline)
> 52cm FM028: Stack 556mm, Reach 376mm (10mm taller, 4mm less reach)
> 53cm FM015: Stack 549mm, Reach 371mm (3mm taller, 9mm less reach)
> 51cm FM015: Stack 538mm, Reach 367mm (8mm shorter height, 13mm shorter reach, smallest)
> 52cm FM313: Stack 566mm, Reach 376mm (20mm taller, 4mm less reach, largest)
> 
> Grated, at most its 1cm-4mm in most cases, also I didnt account for stem length, as I just wanted to see frame vs frame
> FM028 52cm, slightly shorter reach, will get a slammed/longer stem.
> FM015 53cm, very close in stack, shorter reach, will get a slammed/longer stem.
> 
> This makes sense to me.. tho maybe i'm totally wrong..


anyone confirm that I can still count? Mainly that my idea about the stack/reach sizes of the frames compared to my allez :idea:


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## Vee

Kupkake said:


> anyone confirm that I can still count? Mainly that my idea about the stack/reach sizes of the frames compared to my allez :idea:


I do not believe that stack and reach should not be used to compare two different bikes. It doesnt work the way you are thinking.

Edit: I stand corrected. Perhaps Stack and Reach can be used to compare frames after all, but I was advised against using it months back when facing a similar dilemma to Kupkake. Here is the thread from back then: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...ng-frame-geometry-do-i-have-right-235877.html

Here is an excerpt from that thread: 


> ...
> I am against using Stack and Reach.
> 
> Reach, as it has come to be defined, is a really slippery number. Because it is a horizontal measurement from a vertical line to a point on an angled line (head tube), the height of the head tube can change the reach number drastically. Two otherwise identical bikes will have different "Reach" if the head tubes are different lengths. This not only makes it harder to compare - it creates a false impression that does not actually reflect your distance from saddle to steerer. It also takes more calculation to normalize "Reach" numbers from frame to frame.
> 
> A simpler method is to use the "Virtual Top Tube" length, and then correct it for seat tube angle. The correction is roughly 1cm per degree of seat tube angle difference. So a 74 degree STA bike with a 54cm top tube would gain a centimeter to be very comparable to a 73 degree STA bike with a 55cm TT. The reason for this is that your seat set back adjustment is made independant of actual STA, so you are physically correcting for STA when you set up your bike. You end up with a horizontal distance between two roughly parallel lines (head tube and seat tube) that is true whether the HT is long or short. Stem length is also roughly horizontal, so comparing it to Virtual TT length makes sense.
> ...


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## dr. locktopus

I was under the impression that stack and reach were to be used in that manner. At least to determine frame size suitability. 

Since seat tube angle does not come into play in determining either of those numbers, the cockpit length would be affected if there is a big difference in STA between the two frames (given that saddle height is constant on the two bikes, a steeper STA will make the cockpit shorter, and a shallower STA will make it longer, also, your position over the pedals will change accordingly requiring a different setback/seatpost). If the STA in both frames is identical, you should be able to use stack and reach to determine what is needed to make a new frame fit just like the one you're riding.

Final positioning can be adjusted with saddle/seat post setback, stem length/angle, steerer spacers, etc. I'd still recommend a fitting afterwards.


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## Kupkake

Thanks for the incite guys.

I was thinking the same thing, esp since my allez TT is curved an not straight, so then my mind went nuts thinking, well if it drops down.. but isn't a straight line..... 

None the less, im going to use the reach/stack digits soley to figure general size differences. I know the FM015 is more aggressive then the FM028, if the FM015 came in 52cm I wouldn't even my bothered. But I guess really it boils down to using the stack/reach as a 'general' idea, as the rest can be cured by stem/saddle pos/seat post ect. 

I guess the FM028 is the best bet in 52cm. 5mm longer chain stay, 10mm taller HT.
So I'll just lose some spacers. 

Prob grab it from Carbonzone on ebay.


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## Hiro11

Quick question for everyone: my frame landed at JFK this morning. How does clearing customs work for these one-off imports? I think the frame has been labled as a "sample".


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## Bridgey

mmamalyga said:


> Hi everybody,
> 
> I'm looking to pick up some carbon tubular wheels and was wondering who the majority would recommend?
> 
> Flyxii, Helin Liu, Blade X, etc.....there are too many to keep track of.
> 
> If somebody could tell me who is reliable (fast shipping, good product, etc) or at least who to stay away from it would be great!


Definately Yishun. I weigh 100kg's Never a problem. Go tubular though as with clincher they have a lowered brake track. It's a pain adjusting your brakes every race (unless of course you have a dedicated race bike). Anyway many on here have bought Yishun's. Most appear happy.


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## simnorm

over 100kg, what spoke count and rim do you have?


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## apachesix

*ICAN AC053 on the way*

My Foil clone frame is now ready to be shipped. Long lead time, but I knew that going in (60 days from order to ship) and now to see how long it takes to get to Peru. Here are the specs: 54cm, BB30. Still working logos for Marco. And a couple pics:
View attachment 251015


View attachment 251016


----------



## Steenj

Hi All
My name is Steen and I'm new on this forum.
I have just bought a new frame from Hong Fu.
The frame is a FM001 with the fork a la pinerello.
Is there anyone here who knows this frame? and what is your opinion about this frame.
Anyone knows the Hong Fu company, and are they trustworthy?

Best regards
Steen


----------



## Kupkake

Many people have them, and they are one of the more trusted companies over there. 

Also... Interesting.. Diamond Bicycles - Custom Carbon Road Bicycles- Home
They do confirm the frames are from Asia, the FM028 is even still stamped in the frame geo. blue-print.

Hefty mark up, but prob less wait and more responsive service for anyone concerned about buying outside the US... tho that doesn't mean ppl in the US can't have poor customer service.. lol
Ebay shows them Located in Saint Augustine, Florida. Judging by the feedback they are having a good go at re-selling them too.


----------



## persondude27

Kupkake said:


> Many people have them, and they are one of the more trusted companies over there.
> 
> Also... Interesting.. Diamond Bicycles - Custom Carbon Road Bicycles- Home
> They do confirm the frames are from Asia, the FM028 is even still stamped in the frame geo. blue-print.
> 
> Hefty mark up, but prob less wait and more responsive service for anyone concerned about buying outside the US... tho that doesn't mean ppl in the US can't have poor customer service.. lol
> Ebay shows them Located in Saint Augustine, Florida. Judging by the feedback they are having a good go at re-selling them too.


Man. 100% markup is hard to absorb for immediate shipping and an ugly paint job. I realize that lots of companies are doing this, but it's the same as wheel companies have been doing for several years: we're going to buy these rims in bulk, have them built up to their specifications in a Chinese factory, and then resell them for $1,000 a set with their stickers on them.

That's great and all; you're turning a dollar and building a 'more complete product line,' but what distinguishes between your bikes and every other shop doing this? Literally, the paint jobs. Everyone is already abuzz with "All frames are made in the same place," and these little resellers are making it so much worse.

At least Stradilli is using hard-to-buy frames (like the Exocet/copy).


----------



## Kupkake

All to true, its an interesting concept tho. What it appears is this guy could run that out of his basement, completely on the side, and net a nice little chunk of change..

...Good question is what does the available market in the US think is a fair price to pay for someone taking a lot of the up-front work in sourcing the frames. Especially since the consumer pretty much can do a .5sec Google search an find the manuf. price... Prob not enough to quit the day job!


----------



## PaxRomana

Kupkake said:


> Many people have them, and they are one of the more trusted companies over there.
> 
> Also... Interesting.. Diamond Bicycles - Custom Carbon Road Bicycles- Home
> They do confirm the frames are from Asia, the FM028 is even still stamped in the frame geo. blue-print.
> 
> Hefty mark up, but prob less wait and more responsive service for anyone concerned about buying outside the US... tho that doesn't mean ppl in the US can't have poor customer service.. lol
> Ebay shows them Located in Saint Augustine, Florida. Judging by the feedback they are having a good go at re-selling them too.


LMAO! That's the company run by Mike Diamond, the 63 year old guy who got himself a 2-year doping ban. At age 63.


----------



## bcmf

Steenj said:


> Hi All
> My name is Steen and I'm new on this forum.
> I have just bought a new frame from Hong Fu.
> The frame is a FM001 with the fork a la pinerello.
> Is there anyone here who knows this frame? and what is your opinion about this frame.
> Anyone knows the Hong Fu company, and are they trustworthy?
> 
> Best regards
> Steen


Hey there. I am on my second FM001 with the wavy forks. 
The bike looks even better in the flesh and I love the way it rides. Nice big BB area really helps when putting down a bit of power.I find the bike really reacts when I push it.
The only thing is I really have to tighten the front wheel more the I am happy with because the wheel seems to 'bounce' on heavy braking.
But I do get a lot of 'cool looking bike'.
Happy Riding


----------



## chanthomas29

hi guys. 
: E-hongfu-Bikes 50mm Carbon Wheels
this one 50mm carbon whelsset is good??anyone bought??


----------



## mtimme

persondude27 said:


> e_baygoods (did we decide that was Dengfu?) has a frame/fork/seatpost/handlebar/cages/saddle setup for $580 US. That's pretty close to what I paid for my FM015 from Hongfu, except I had mine painted and didn't get a saddle.
> 
> It looks like a good deal, if they're in good shape, but they appear to only sell a size 52. Bummersauce. Give me a call when they're selling 56s!


e_baygoods is Flyxii


----------



## Steenj

*Thanks for good answers*

My answer was placed on wrong place, sorry.


----------



## persondude27

PaxRomana said:


> LMAO! That's the company run by Mike Diamond, the 63 year old guy who got himself a 2-year doping ban. At age 63.


He deserves to be banned simply for the colors he used in the website. Yuck.


----------



## Hiro11

I just posted this over on Velobuild:

OK, got the stuff today. Matte MC053 (Scott Foil clone) from Miracle Trade. Same exact frame as the one Apachesix just posted (great choice!). I also bought HB003 bars and ST002 stem. First impressions are very favorable. We'll see as I build it up.

Frame only:








3K weave looks good. The headtube is seriously beefy with a 1.5" bottom bearing. Fork crown is a beast, I need a new caliper bolt. All of the internal cables have integral liners which are neatly done.

With all of the parts I'll use to build this up:








Scrounged Ultegra 6600, brand new Ultegra WH6700 wheels, Miracle Trade carbon bars and stem. Old Selle Italia SLR. I don't have a lot of money to blow on bike stuff. Total build cost will be less than $1,700 (which my wife is just OK with).

Here's a close up of the seatpost clamping mechanism on this bike. It's really well engineered:








Pardon my foot. Basically, it's an alloy (carbon?) expanding wedge that clamps the post back against the solid back of the seat tube. Many bikes use a similar design and it seems like a good way to prevent slipping and improve durability.

Weights:
Frame (size 54): 1,190 (with clamp) 1,100 without. The clamp is pretty beefy. 
Fork: 460 (uncut)
Seatpost: 240
Stem: 140 (100MM, looks like a 6 degree rise)
Bars: 215 (240s)

All are about what I expected, not super light but perfectly acceptable.

I mounted the wheels just to check clearance, something I was a bit concerned about. Plenty of room with 23MM Conti GP4000s. Wheels mount up straight and centered, frame looks true. RD hanger is a thick piece of alloy. Carbon dropouts with zero alloy (I think).

I bought three of the Neco headsets and they seem to roll smoothly. Not a hint of alloy in the headtube of this frame, is that standard these days?

Overall, this is a pretty tough looking frame. Everything looks a bit overbuilt and durable. Hopefully it will last. The bars, stem and seatpost have integral sections of roughened epoxy to increase friction which is a swell feature. Will build up this weekend.


----------



## ac19951994

Hiro11 said:


> I just posted this over on Velobuild:
> 
> OK, got the stuff today. Matte MC053 (Scott Foil clone) from Miracle Trade. I also bought HB003 bars and ST002 stem. First impressions are very favorable. We'll see as I build it up.
> 
> Frame only:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3K weave looks good. The headtube is seriously beefy with a 1.5" bottom bearing. Fork crown is a beast, I need a new caliper bolt. All of the internal cables have integral liners which are neatly done.
> 
> With all of the parts I'll use to build this up:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scrounged Ultegra 6600, brand new Ultegra WH6700 wheels, Miracle Trade carbon bars and stem. Old Selle Italia SLR. I don't have a lot of money to blow on bike stuff. Total build cost will be less than $1,700 (which my wife is just OK with).
> 
> Here's a close up of the seatpost clamping mechanism on this bike. It's really well engineered:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pardon my foot. Basically, it's an alloy (carbon?) expanding wedge that clamps the post back against the solid back of the seat tube. Many bikes use a similar design and it seems like a good way to prevent slipping and improve durability.
> 
> Weights:
> Frame (size 54): 1,190 (with clamp) 1,100 without. The clamp is pretty beefy.
> Fork: 460 (uncut)
> Seatpost: 240
> Stem: 140 (100MM, looks like a 6 degree rise)
> Bars: 215 (240s)
> 
> All are about what I expected, not super light but perfectly acceptable.
> 
> I mounted the wheels just to check clearance, something I was a bit concerned about. Plenty of room with 23MM Conti GP4000s. Wheels mount up straight and centered, frame looks true. RD hanger is a thick piece of alloy. Carbon dropouts with zero alloy (I think).
> 
> I bought three of the Neco headsets and they seem to roll smoothly. Not a hint of alloy in the headtube of this frame, is that standard these days?
> 
> Overall, this is a pretty tough looking frame. Everything looks a bit overbuilt and durable. Hopefully it will last. The bars, stem and seatpost have integral sections of roughened epoxy to increase friction which is a swell feature. Will build up this weekend.


cant wait to see your built photos and report


----------



## apachesix

- nice to see another one and hear your 1st impression of the quality. Mine is in the SHENZHEN sorting center. Enjoy the build, I look forward to the finished product and ride report.
EDIT - Sorry @ Hiro


----------



## Hiro11

Kupkake said:


> ...Good question is what does the available market in the US think is a fair price to pay for someone taking a lot of the up-front work in sourcing the frames. Especially since the consumer pretty much can do a .5sec Google search an find the manuf. price... Prob not enough to quit the day job!


I can personally attest that it was really easy to go direct for me. I knew nothing about this option until about three months ago. Thanks to this terrific forum, I knew exactly what to expect (thanks, guys!). 

Overall, I get the feeling we're right on the brink of the factory direct / wholesale option being relatively mainstream in the US. The wholesalers just have to take care of a few rough edges (web-based ordering interface etc) and it will be just like buying a frame from Competitive Cyclist. Also, in my opinion they need to stop pirating frame designs and do some of their own engineering to eliminate the slight smell of skeevy-ness that the process currently has... says the guy who just bought a copy of a Foil (at least I didn't get it's decal-ed up to look like the real thing).

IMO, it's going to crush the pricing in the mid range bike market. People will always pay a lot for the top end "heritage" European brands, but will people pay for $4K for a Giant, Trek, Fuji etc if it were just as easy to get a Hong Fu built up for less than half that?


----------



## MTBMaven

Nice work Hiro11. That is a lot of bike for $1,700. Interested in seeing the final product.


----------



## andywong8088

any people have nice time trial frame?


----------



## persondude27

Hiro11 said:


> I can personally attest that it was really easy to go direct for me. I knew nothing about this option until about three months ago. Thanks to this terrific forum, I knew exactly what to expect (thanks, guys!).
> 
> Overall, I get the feeling we're right on the brink of the factory direct / wholesale option being relatively mainstream in the US. The wholesalers just have to take care of a few rough edges (web-based ordering interface etc) and it will be just like buying a frame from Competitive Cyclist. Also, in my opinion they need to stop pirating frame designs and do some of their own engineering to eliminate the slight smell of skeevy-ness that the process currently has... says the guy who just bought a copy of a Foil (at least I didn't get it's decal-ed up to look like the real thing).
> 
> IMO, it's going to crush the pricing in the mid range bike market. People will always pay a lot for the top end "heritage" European brands, but will people pay for $4K for a Giant, Trek, Fuji etc if it were just as easy to get a Hong Fu built up for less than half that?


Agreed on almost all of these points.

1) They are 'trying' to make their own frames - see the FM015, FM028, and almost all of the TT frames. But as long as their is a market for people buying Foil clones, Dogma copies, etc., there will be a market for making them.

2) I don't think it's going to have a big effect on the real market, not for a long time. These bikes are in the same place as used bikes: as long as you're OK not getting a warranty and coming from a not-necessarily-reputable source, then you're OK. I think the frames are getting to a point where no one expects them to blow up on you downhill, but there's a big difference between buying a mid-range Specialized from the shop and buying a frame from China or Taiwan.

3) Finally, how many people build their own bikes? You and I know how to build them, which is why this is an option for us. However, Joe Schmoe the Weekend Warrior doesn't have the first idea about sourcing a bars and stems and cables and wheels and tires and saddles, etc, etc. You can buy a build kit online, but at that point, you might as well buy a complete Force bike for $1500.


----------



## cpotisu

I posted a while back in version 5.0 page 231 about the internal cable routing flaw in Dengfu fm098
which caused a shifting in the rear gear. Finally got the problem solved by "routing the cable externally"
the frame I received was really a piece of sh.t I have email tony but he has never response. So I'm done with Dengfu. Hope you guys got a good one with dengfu but if you don't you're on ur own.


----------



## FTR

Hopefully this does not get lost in the noise.
I know that some here have had good luck with getting paint done by the Chinese factories.
I am trying to get a 3 colour design done and am a little concerned that they are not really understanding what is needed.
i have sent them a picture of what I want and told them I basically want it replicated but in different colours. Anyone got any good tips on how to communicate this better? I also seem to have some misunderstanding about their paint price. Their catalogue says $60 for 3 colour but they are saying it is another $150. Is this a set up cost for paint/decals?

Also anyone happen to have seen the 3T Funda forks via any of these guys? I know that Miracle Trade did do them but apparently they dont have them any more.


----------



## cpotisu

FTR said:


> Hopefully this does not get lost in the noise.
> I know that some here have had good luck with getting paint done by the Chinese factories.
> I am trying to get a 3 colour design done and am a little concerned that they are not really understanding what is needed.
> i have sent them a picture of what I want and told them I basically want it replicated but in different colours. Anyone got any good tips on how to communicate this better? I also seem to have some misunderstanding about their paint price. Their catalogue says $60 for 3 colour but they are saying it is another $150. Is this a set up cost for paint/decals?
> 
> Also anyone happen to have seen the 3T Funda forks via any of these guys? I know that Miracle Trade did do them but apparently they dont have them any more.


try google translator :thumbsup:


----------



## FTR

cpotisu said:


> try google translator :thumbsup:


Tried, but I dont know that this was any more helpful.


----------



## mjdwyer23

cpotisu said:


> I posted a while back in version 5.0 page 231 about the internal cable routing flaw in Dengfu fm098
> which caused a shifting in the rear gear. Finally got the problem solved by "routing the cable externally"
> the frame I received was really a piece of sh.t I have email tony but he has never response. So I'm done with Dengfu. Hope you guys got a good one with dengfu but if you don't you're on ur own.


Do you have pics? What else did you try?


----------



## cpotisu

mjdwyer23 said:


> Do you have pics? What else did you try?


tried everything seem like the internal tube is sliding
you can see pics in version 5 page 231


----------



## Kupkake

persondude27 said:


> He deserves to be banned simply for the colors he used in the website. Yuck.


my thoughts exactly... I looked at it an was like.. "regardless of location or service I won't buy from this guy because of this site..." (coming from an eCommerce web designer  )


----------



## Vee

FTR said:


> Tried, but I dont know that this was any more helpful.


FTR, why dont you post up some pictures of what you sent them and have one of us photoshop the proper colors on it for you. 150 sounds like they may be charging you for more than paint. Perhaps you have some very thin/fine lines and/or decals that they have to design and water float on?


----------



## apachesix

FTR said:


> Hopefully this does not get lost in the noise.
> Anyone got any good tips on how to communicate this better? I also seem to have some misunderstanding about their paint price. Their catalogue says $60 for 3 colour but they are saying it is another $150. Is this a set up cost for paint/decals?


FTR,
I downloaded Gimp software to edit their pics and then was able to show them exactly what I wanted. It is pretty simple use. Your case would be easier to do than mine since you are using the same design just different colors. All you would need to do is use the paint bucket to change each color to what you want. I had to "paint" the matt frame pics they sent me. 

I had to pay a $35 molding fee for the red decal and there was a separate fee to paint the fork. I went through ICAN so I don't know if Miracle has different prices, but ICAN sent me a sheet with all the prices. I still need to see it in person but as you can see from the pics I posted it seems to have turned out just like I asked.
Here is what I sent them so you can compare to my post above. The only spot I have found different is the very top of the seat tube above the stays didn't get paint but I'm ok with it (still hits the idea of the design enough for me):


----------



## nagge

FTR said:


> Also anyone happen to have seen the 3T Funda forks via any of these guys? I know that Miracle Trade did do them but apparently they dont have them any more.


I got one on my bike from Greatkeen.


----------



## FTR

Thanks for the replies.
I have responded asking that they confirm the costs and have detailed the costs as I understand them.
If the costs cover the frame and 2 different forks (with 2 different paint designs on each) then I am happy with the price and will get them to proceed with providing me with a mock up.
Once I have the mock up it will be easier for me to make any changes that are needed.
I have tried using Gimp and other paint type programs in the past but I am obviously "GIMP-challenged".


----------



## apachesix

FTR said:


> Once I have the mock up it will be easier for me to make any changes that are needed. I have tried using Gimp and other paint type programs in the past but I am obviously "GIMP-challenged".


If you need help feel free to pm me, I think I am getting the hang of GIMP for basic things and could make the changes for you.
Semper Fi,
Andrew


----------



## vivepeter

Hello,everyone. My name is peter.
I am new here. 
I want to know Is anyone know cyclingyong?Today i find some interesting stuffs on their website.
They'r offering the specialized s-works tarmac sl3 at amazing price.
But the photos of their list is for the original bike. So i ask them for the real photos of their frame. Here are the photos they send.Only have got the photos for the naked frame and the tarmac expert.I have also been told that more painting will be done in next few days and they can upload more photos.
I am really interested in it.So i want to know has anyone brought bike from cyclingyong? How do you feel like it?
Any reply will be appreciated


----------



## FTR

Search function will show that there has been many discussions in these threads about CyclingYong (and not necessarily favourable).


----------



## FTR

apachesix said:


> FTR,
> I downloaded Gimp software to edit their pics and then was able to show them exactly what I wanted. It is pretty simple use. Your case would be easier to do than mine since you are using the same design just different colors. All you would need to do is use the paint bucket to change each color to what you want. I had to "paint" the matt frame pics they sent me.
> 
> I had to pay a $35 molding fee for the red decal and there was a separate fee to paint the fork. I went through ICAN so I don't know if Miracle has different prices, but ICAN sent me a sheet with all the prices. I still need to see it in person but as you can see from the pics I posted it seems to have turned out just like I asked.
> Here is what I sent them so you can compare to my post above. The only spot I have found different is the very top of the seat tube above the stays didn't get paint but I'm ok with it (still hits the idea of the design enough for me):


From the latest response it does seem that they are charging a fee to "mask off" the sections as I am basically wanting 2 colours and also a panel where the carbon weave will show through and a decal will go.
Still $150 for that "masking" on the frame seems pretty steep.


----------



## kanekikapu

Both ICAN and Miracle have a SL3 clone too. Search for SP-AC058. That said I too are interested to see if anyone got one. Been thinking of getting a bare UD frame without any clearcoat so I can do my own paint job.


----------



## bernard29

Hi,
First post after spending many hours( never easy for french people understanding foreign languages ;-) to read these two threads ( 5 and 6) about carbon chinese frames. 
Many thanks for all the informations, members share to everybody, it's a very positive attitude and a pleasure to see discussions never get loose in personal charges or quarrells ( very frequent in my country ) 
I am, now, ready to put the trigger on a tt frame ( MC012 Miracle ) and i have just to learn more about finer points about "GIMP" 
So, @FTR, wich seller gave you a quote of 150 $ for 3 colours ? Miracle ? 
@ APACHESIX, your frame is very nice, the work was execute from, only, the pictures above ?
In that case, i may look about ICAN tt frames !
Thanks ad sorry again for my poor english !


----------



## gte534j

I just finished building my Scott Foil MC053 replica from Miracle trade 56cm 3k gloss. I ordered the frame in Dec and just got it in VA, USA on Feb 15th. The size 56 i guess is a new size. Anyways, the frame came in great shape. A few minor issues/pointers:
1. I purchased two headsets with it, which was good. The first crown race did not press over the 1.5" steer tube, it just slid down over it. So i used the other crown race which i pressed in (hammered) with the park crown race setter tool. This is more an issue w/ the headset not the fork. I measured the fork the steer tube with calipers and it was almost exactly 1.5".
2. The cable guide for the front derailleur had some carbon stuff stuck in it when routing from behind the bottom bracket. Its hard to explain, but i just took a screw driver and cleaned it out. This is where the cable comes out from the down tube right in front of the bottom bracket then wraps around under the bottom bracket into a hole in the area between where the stays meet.
3. The internal cable guides rattle a bit over bumpy roads. I noticed this when i got the frame and was tapping against it with my hand. Not a big deal, i guess i could do something about this but not sure what.
4. Seat post wedge was a bit tricky. Make sure to install the seat post first and mark the height with some tape. Then install the wedge unit as a whole and make sure it is flush with the top tube. If you dont do this, the seat post will creak a bit.
5. Seat clamp is a PITA. I dont like it at all. Its very hard to adjust the angle.

Took the bike out for 40 miles yesterday. Bike felt great, very similar feel to my real scott addict SL. Felt just as stiff as the real thing, but its quite a bit heavier. Hopefully in a few years these chinese frames will come down in weight.
Everything else was great though, i took a lot of pictures below with weights and descriptions. Email me if you have questions about the build gte534j at gmail

Scott Foil Replica Scott Foil Chinese MC053 - a set on Flickr


----------



## apachesix

bernard29 said:


> @ APACHESIX, your frame is very nice, the work was execute from, only, the pictures above ?
> In that case, i may look about ICAN tt frames !


@ bernard29: Thanks (looking forward to seeing it in person and starting the build), and yes, that is all I sent them.


----------



## FTR

bernard29 said:


> So, @FTR, wich seller gave you a quote of 150 $ for 3 colours ? Miracle ?


Yes, Miracle.


----------



## apachesix

gte534j said:


> I just finished building my Scott Foil MC053 replica from Miracle trade 56cm 3k gloss.
> Took the bike out for 40 miles yesterday. Bike felt great, very similar feel to my real scott addict SL. Felt just as stiff as the real thing, but its quite a bit heavier. Hopefully in a few years these chinese frames will come down in weight.
> Everything else was great though, i took a lot of pictures below with weights and descriptions.


Thanks for the pics and tips.


----------



## Hiro11

Man, these MC053s are getting thick on the ground here.

I made good progress today in my build. First I used a piece of PVC to mount the crown race:








This worked well.

I cut the steerer, mounted the fork and most of the componentry down in my basement laboratory. I didn't get to the drivetrain cables before dinner:









Please disregard the positioning of everything (levers too low, too many spacers, saddle...everything), I have a lot of work to go with adjusting. I'll do that slowly as the riding season picks up here in Chicago.

The cockpit of this bike is a feast of (Chinese) carbon:









I had the go to the bike store to get new front and rear caliper bolts and cage bolts. All were given to me for free and worked perfectly. I bought a couple new cages just to compensate them. I love the service a good LBS provides.

I think this is going to come it at right around 16.7 lbs which isn't bad at all given the full Ultegra and 1,650g wheels.

No surprises in this build yet. The headset was easy to mount and nice and snug, the bottom bracket shell looks faced and true, the brake cables went in without a problem. I have to say the engineering I'm seeing in this frame exceeds my expectation. This is not the cheap-o flimsy crap I was concerned about.


----------



## Hiro11

gte534j said:


> 2. The cable guide for the front derailleur had some carbon stuff stuck in it when routing from behind the bottom bracket. Its hard to explain, but i just took a screw driver and cleaned it out. This is where the cable comes out from the down tube right in front of the bottom bracket then wraps around under the bottom bracket into a hole in the area between where the stays meet.


Mine too. I took a needle file and cleaned up the opening. There's some alloy down there as well, I noticed.



> 4. Seat post wedge was a bit tricky. Make sure to install the seat post first and mark the height with some tape. Then install the wedge unit as a whole and make sure it is flush with the top tube. If you dont do this, the seat post will creak a bit.


I just pushed it in there with some grip paste. We'll see how this works out.



> 5. Seat clamp is a PITA. I dont like it at all. Its very hard to adjust the angle.


Pop the two black alloy "end caps" out with something and lube the entire mechanism. Makes getting the angle correct much easier.


----------



## gte534j

Hiro11 said:


> I just posted this over on Velobuild:
> 
> OK, got the stuff today. Matte MC053 (Scott Foil clone) from Miracle Trade. Same exact frame as the one Apachesix just posted (great choice!). I also bought HB003 bars and ST002 stem. First impressions are very favorable. We'll see as I build it up.
> 
> Weights:
> Frame (size 54): 1,190 (with clamp) 1,100 without. The clamp is pretty beefy.
> Fork: 460 (uncut)
> Seatpost: 240
> Stem: 140 (100MM, looks like a 6 degree rise)
> Bars: 215 (240s)
> 
> All are about what I expected, not super light but perfectly acceptable.
> 
> Overall, this is a pretty tough looking frame. Everything looks a bit overbuilt and durable. Hopefully it will last. The bars, stem and seatpost have integral sections of roughened epoxy to increase friction which is a swell feature. Will build up this weekend.


I came up w/ the same weight. Interesting comparison
Frame+fork+clamp+seatpost on the chinese bike is 1920g
Frame+fork+clamp+seatpost on the scott foil is 1230g
Scott Foil Aero Road Bike Launched - BikeRadar
Price on the chinese bike is $600
Price on the scott foil is $3150
Scott Foil 10 2012 Frameset | R&A Cycles
$/gram saved is $3.70
So there you go, easy way to make a decision about what its worth to you. I wish the frame was a bit lighter.....


----------



## mtbboy41

*Chinese Carbon Seat pillar question*

The build has started on my Miracle MC008. I got a carbon seat pillar with the frame. It is 300mm long. I estimate that there will be about 110-120 mm of seat post in the frame when it is set at the right hight. That puts the end of the seat post below the junction of the top and seat tube and the seat stays. I am hoping that is in far enough. Any comments or anyone care to share their carbon seat post experiences


----------



## maxxevv

gte534j said:


> I came up w/ the same weight. Interesting comparison
> Frame+fork+clamp+seatpost on the chinese bike is 1920g
> Frame+fork+clamp+seatpost on the scott foil is 1230g
> Scott Foil Aero Road Bike Launched - BikeRadar
> Price on the chinese bike is $600
> Price on the scott foil is $3150
> Scott Foil 10 2012 Frameset | R&A Cycles
> $/gram saved is $3.70
> So there you go, easy way to make a decision about what its worth to you. I wish the frame was a bit lighter.....


The BikeRadar numbers can't be right. 

Frame = 840g, 
Frame + Fork + Seatpost + Clamp = 1227g 

Meaning : Fork + Seatpost + Clamp = 387g??!! 

A typical high-end tapered steerer fork alone weighs in that ballpark of weight. 

Think a more realistic comparison should be 1190+ 460 versus 1227g 

Which is 1650 versus 1227g instead!


----------



## gte534j

@Hiro11- Thanks for the advice about the seat mount with greasing the black plastic cups. Do you have any problems with the seat rotating on you since there is grease on the black plastic cups? I actually degreased that area so that way the cups would not slip, but if they dont slip for you, then i might go ahead and grease that area to make adjusting the angle of the seat easier.

@maxxevv- Good catch with the weight. I found this other post on weight weenie where someone weighted their Scott Foil R2
Weight Weenies • View topic - Scott Foil R2 - 6.2kgs

Frame - Scott Foil R2 (Medium 54cm)inc. headset press cups 921g
Fork - Scott Foil R2 -uncut 384g
Headset - Ritchey WCS Integrated 61g
Stem Cap + bolt + compression plug 34g
Seat Mast - Ritchey Carbon for Scott Foil 199g
Seat Mast Clamp bolt 24g
Derailleur Hanger + bolts 12g
Total=1635g

Frame+fork+clamp+seatpost on the chinese bike is 1920g + 122g for the headset=2042g

So the weight difference is 2042g-1635g=407g. 
Price difference is $3150-$600=$2550
$2550/407g=$6.3/g.

Not so motivating now to get the real thing....


----------



## davcruz

Well, this has nothing to do with a frame, but it does involve chinese carbon bottle cages. I bought these eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices and received them fairly quickly, but the are too small in diameter. I mean a regular water bottle is very hard to insert or remove from the cages. I have a pair of Forte' carbon cages that hold the bottle snug but these are crazy, like not really usable they are so tight.

Anyone else found this with the chinese cages? Seller says they will refund me...but they have not yet. I also bought some carbon stem spacers from them at the same time and they sent the wrong ones, I can use what they sent but still....

Get what you pay for I guess. Any recommendations on decent chinese bottle holders?


----------



## FTR

Had the opposite problem actually.
Far too loose and the bottles rattle around on even smooth roads.
Lasted one ride before I dumped them for some Elite cages.


----------



## Hiro11

Obligatory white garage door shot, this one post ten mile shakedown ride:









My phone's camera is convinced everything is blue, sorry about that.

Nothing broke, seatpost didn't slip, bars didn't slip. This is a promising sign. I've double (triple) checked every bolt with a torque wrench.

This bike is really stiff. The chainstays are super-massive and the back end is very short and tucked under you which makes it very responsive to hard peddling. The front end is similarly tight. This makes it feel much more "high strung" than a "grand tour" bike like my Madone. It feels a bit like my single speed track bike: not extremely stable on descents but quick handling and a rocket uphill. I was looking for a more aggressive bike so this makes me happy. This feels like it is a bike made for crits and the like: lots of accelerations and dodging in and out of traffic. If you want a straight-up race bike, this might be the one to get.

Prior to the ride, I noticed that the internal cables rattled inside the frame when I banged the front wheel on the floor. I took the fork off, went to Jo-Ann fabric with the kids, bought some high-density chair foam stuffed some in the top tube and down tube to quiet everything down. This only took a minute and worked like a charm. The bike has such huge tubes and is so "hollow" that it makes a bit of a reverberating hum while rolling, similar to the sound deep section carbon rims make. It's a pleasing sound.

I'm pretty happy with the bike, need more good weather to really string it out.


----------



## bcmf

davcruz said:


> Get what you pay for I guess. Any recommendations on decent chinese bottle holders?


The roads I ride on, in Ireland, are like toned down pave. I knew carbon cages would be usless as I would need to squeeze bottle in but be able to be able to get the bottle out without any hassle. I found a seller and got a sample of them. When I found they worked I ordered a bag of 10 black ones. While I had the 'test' one I took a small spill and the cage snapped. The seller only sends via very slow mail so I just bit the bullet and ordered 10 and so I have about 6 sitting in my attic, I can send you on a couple if you want?
I will pm you a pic of them.


----------



## solarFlash

Bike looks great Hiro and thanks for the ride report! Sounds very encouraging, I have a frame on order also. Did you have any difficulties with the build at all? It mentioned previously that someone had trouble fitting the front mech.


----------



## Hiro11

solarFlash said:


> Bike looks great Hiro and thanks for the ride report! Sounds very encouraging, I have a frame on order also. Did you have any difficulties with the build at all? It mentioned previously that someone had trouble fitting the front mech.


No problems to speak of with the build. I'm not a real fan of internal cabling, it's fussy and a bit pointless. The internal cabling on this bike is just about the easiest I've done, really not bad at all. Cable friction is fine, brakes and derailleurs work well. The fd braze on is fine for a full size crank, I didn't have to readjust the range bolts, which was a surprise. I mounted both mechs in about half an hour, which is really good for me.


----------



## solarFlash

That's good to know, I was planning on going with a standard crank too (BB30 though). Thanks again.


----------



## pelly

mmamalyga said:


> Hi everybody,
> 
> I'm looking to pick up some carbon tubular wheels and was wondering who the majority would recommend?
> 
> Flyxii, Helin Liu, Blade X, etc.....there are too many to keep track of.
> 
> If somebody could tell me who is reliable (fast shipping, good product, etc) or at least who to stay away from it would be great!


Miracle Trade, Jack Chen, quick replies, fast shipping to Australia (7 days) I just purchased 3 rims and a wheelset all 88T, I'm happy with the quality, better than my last experience with Tony from Dengfu.


----------



## davcruz

bcmf said:


> The roads I ride on, in Ireland, are like toned down pave. I knew carbon cages would be usless as I would need to squeeze bottle in but be able to be able to get the bottle out without any hassle. I found a seller and got a sample of them. When I found they worked I ordered a bag of 10 black ones. While I had the 'test' one I took a small spill and the cage snapped. The seller only sends via very slow mail so I just bit the bullet and ordered 10 and so I have about 6 sitting in my attic, I can send you on a couple if you want?
> I will pm you a pic of them.


Thanks for the information and the PM's! Shipping from Ireland would probably be prohibitive for bottle cages, but can you tell me the brand or seller of these that you have been using?


----------



## gte534j

Hiro11 said:


> Prior to the ride, I noticed that the internal cables rattled inside the frame when I banged the front wheel on the floor. I took the fork off, went to Jo-Ann fabric with the kids, bought some high-density chair foam stuffed some in the top tube and down tube to quiet everything down. This only took a minute and worked like a charm. The bike has such huge tubes and is so "hollow" that it makes a bit of a reverberating hum while rolling, similar to the sound deep section carbon rims make. It's a pleasing sound.
> 
> I'm pretty happy with the bike, need more good weather to really string it out.


Brilliant idea! I noticed the same thing. I decided to stuff bubble wrap into part of the downtube from the bottom of the headset area (1.5") and that seemed to shut up the internal cable routing housing. So far so good.


----------



## bcmf

davcruz said:


> Thanks for the information and the PM's! Shipping from Ireland would probably be prohibitive for bottle cages, but can you tell me the brand or seller of these that you have been using?


Sure will have a root thru my email/paypal and see if I can get you something.
WIll also see how much shipping would be form here.


----------



## Reeve

hi guys! 

been lurking around the forum for some time before i decided to pull the trigger on Dengfu's fm098 (Venge copy). Turns out the seatpost only accepts round saddle rails. but my sadde's rails are ovalised! (carbon rails) is there anyway i can modify or are there round carbon railed saddles out there in the market?

thanks alot!


----------



## Vee

Hiro11 said:


> Man, these MC053s are getting thick on the ground here.
> 
> I made good progress today in my build. First I used a piece of PVC to mount the crown race:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This worked well.


Just to comment on this so others don't make a similar mistake, please be sure that you are not setting the fork down on the dropouts when using the mallet to set the crown race. A better, safer way would be to simply turn the entire setup upside down and slam the PVC down against the concrete. This will put all of the pressure to the crown race and PVC rather than hammering down against your fork dropouts, which is a good way to cause serious damage.


----------



## Vee

Reeve said:


> hi guys!
> 
> been lurking around the forum for some time before i decided to pull the trigger on Dengfu's fm098 (Venge copy). Turns out the seatpost only accepts round saddle rails. but my sadde's rails are ovalised! (carbon rails) is there anyway i can modify or are there round carbon railed saddles out there in the market?
> 
> thanks alot!


This got answered (for the second or third time) towards the end of version 5.0 of this thread. Please visit the first page of this thread for a link to it and search the 5.0 version for your answer.

As a bit of a hint, the parts you are looking for are sold by Bontrager.


----------



## ptsbike55

Hiro,
What size cranks are those?


----------



## rocklax

Hiro11 said:


> Obligatory white garage door shot, this one post ten mile shakedown ride:


Anyone think that with a say 1500ish gram wheelset and SRAM Force that we could get one of these well under 16 pounds?

Hiro, nice looking ride btw.


----------



## Hiro11

Vee said:


> Just to comment on this so others don't make a similar mistake, please be sure that you are not setting the fork down on the dropouts when using the mallet to set the crown race. A better, safer way would be to simply turn the entire setup upside down and slam the PVC down against the concrete. This will put all of the pressure to the crown race and PVC rather than hammering down against your fork dropouts, which is a good way to cause serious damage.


Yes, definitely good tip. I actually held the fork in my hand in the air and hit the pipe with the mallet. This worked very well, the race mounted straight and the steerer wasn't scratched or damaged. The picture you're seeing here is actually the end result with everything flat on my breakfast table, much to my wife's chagrin.


----------



## Hiro11

ptsbike55 said:


> Hiro,
> What size cranks are those?


53/42, 172.5 arms.


----------



## Hiro11

rocklax said:


> Anyone think that with a say 1500ish gram wheelset and SRAM Force that we could get one of these well under 16 pounds?
> 
> Hiro, nice looking ride btw.


I definitely think so. I only weigh a little more than 140 so I considered going with a lighter wheelset. However, my love of Shimano cones and my fear of the rough roads around Chicago made me reconsider. I'd say Rival and a ~1200g wheelset would put you under 16 pounds with this frame.


----------



## Reeve

Vee said:


> This got answered (for the second or third time) towards the end of version 5.0 of this thread. Please visit the first page of this thread for a link to it and search the 5.0 version for your answer.
> 
> As a bit of a hint, the parts you are looking for are sold by Bontrager.


Thanks Vee for helping out, I managed to get what i was searching for!


----------



## Reeve

Guys, i managed to source the seatpost saddleclamp adaptor from my LBS, hopefully it will fit. Will post pictures of build once my post count gets up. How many posts are required before i am allowed to post pictures?


----------



## Reeve

Midwest Playa said:


> This is for all you chinarello haters.lol
> 
> Shes rides just as good as my SL3 Tarmac, Cannondale Super Six and She definitely rides better than my 07 Gerolsteiner Tarmac.
> 
> Last but not the least. I am $6,500 richer than the original owners. If I crash this thing for what ever reason or it gets stolen, I will not shed a single tear. I have no complains at all There was a minor issue needed replacement during the assembly like the mounting bracket for the front deraileure. The ones it came in was flexing and so the shifting was an issue. but its now corrected $20.00 for an original specialized part.
> 
> The original Dogma owners are just pissed because they could have saved that money for a cruise with their wife or vacation in the Bahamas. (Joke)
> 
> Anyways dont take my comments personal bottom line is this, I work hard for my money, I pay my taxes,and I bought this bike legally just like any other purchase I made in the past..
> 
> This bike build cost me $850.00 including shipping for the FF: Frame, Fork, aero seat, integrated handlebar, headset. water bottle cage. (Original bontrager)
> 
> I decided to dressed her up with full Sram Red components and Selle smp full carbon saddle, Time rxs carbon pedals and I put on some Cinderella Carbon Easton slippers on her and she turned up to be sexier and lighter at 14.75 lbs.lol
> 
> If this frame last me one season it has done its job.I can always take the components and transfer it to another frame. if you noticed I mentioned "Original" Bontrager bottles, yes this company makes components for a major brand. They are not a hole in the wall operation. They have the proper equipment to do the stress test on ther frames. Its on the website which I am not going to post.All I can say is the facility is huge.
> 
> I am sure someone mentioned approx 75 percent of bikes are build in Asia thats a Guess give or take. I dont understand the issue with frames not holding up.lol
> 
> If you look at my past threads my 2009 Cannondale Super Six which is made in the USA had a crack on the down tube and when Calfee went to work on it they found other cracks that needed repair by the water bottle mounts and the headset, so how can someone say an original frame is better? The repairs cost me close to $800.00 after it was all said and done. I could have bought another Chinarello for that price.lol
> 
> 
> My two cents


Quoting this for the truth!


----------



## persondude27

rocklax said:


> Anyone think that with a say 1500ish gram wheelset and SRAM Force that we could get one of these well under 16 pounds?
> 
> Hiro, nice looking ride btw.


Standard Force, using Hiro's numbers and weightweenies, with a Shimano WH-RS80 (1527g), a light saddle (130g), and carbon handebars (180g), puts you at 15.8 with pedals (Keo 2 Carbon). Silly light.


----------



## FTR

Different frame but my size 58 FM028 came in at 6.98kg (15.4 lbs) with mixed SRAM groupset (Rival levers, Force derailleurs, Red crank), Speedplay's, SMP Composit saddle and 1100g Mad Fiber's.
Sadly it is now retired after I was hit by a car a few weeks ago. Jury is out on the replacement at the moment.


----------



## amenzies

Midwest Playa,

How did you attach the new front derailuer hanger, I have the same frame and the hanger is a bit flimsy

Cheers
Alan


----------



## PaxRomana

I have to admit, that is a sweet bike, Midwest.


----------



## apachesix

FTR, hope you are all right. That bike was nice looking.


----------



## amenzies

Build quality is very good have it in the Blue and Black Sky colours, have not taken it out yet as the roads over here are in bit of a mess covered in salt and grit.so still using the winter bike, I already have an FM028 bought last September and have been highly impressed with that, my usual summer bike is an S-WORKS Roubaix SL, the FM028 feels as good as that, will post up when I take the Chinarello out.

Alan



Midwest Playa said:


> Let me ask my mechanic who ordered that part and I will get back with you. So how do you like the bike overall??


----------



## persondude27

FTR said:


> Different frame but my size 58 FM028 came in at 6.98kg (15.4 lbs) with mixed SRAM groupset (Rival levers, Force derailleurs, Red crank), Speedplay's, SMP Composit saddle and 1100g Mad Fiber's.
> Sadly it is now retired after I was hit by a car a few weeks ago. Jury is out on the replacement at the moment.


And hope the Madfibers weren't on it when the car started bowling!

Honestly, I have to keep myself from buying an AC-053 nearly every day...


----------



## zigmeister

gte534j said:


> I just finished building my Scott Foil MC053 replica from Miracle trade 56cm 3k gloss. I ordered the frame in Dec and just got it in VA, USA on Feb 15th. The size 56 i guess is a new size. Anyways, the frame came in great shape. A few minor issues/pointers:
> 1. I purchased two headsets with it, which was good. The first crown race did not press over the 1.5" steer tube, it just slid down over it. So i used the other crown race which i pressed in (hammered) with the park crown race setter tool. This is more an issue w/ the headset not the fork. I measured the fork the steer tube with calipers and it was almost exactly 1.5".
> 2. The cable guide for the front derailleur had some carbon stuff stuck in it when routing from behind the bottom bracket. Its hard to explain, but i just took a screw driver and cleaned it out. This is where the cable comes out from the down tube right in front of the bottom bracket then wraps around under the bottom bracket into a hole in the area between where the stays meet.
> 3. The internal cable guides rattle a bit over bumpy roads. I noticed this when i got the frame and was tapping against it with my hand. Not a big deal, i guess i could do something about this but not sure what.
> 4. Seat post wedge was a bit tricky. Make sure to install the seat post first and mark the height with some tape. Then install the wedge unit as a whole and make sure it is flush with the top tube. If you dont do this, the seat post will creak a bit.
> 5. Seat clamp is a PITA. I dont like it at all. Its very hard to adjust the angle.
> 
> Took the bike out for 40 miles yesterday. Bike felt great, very similar feel to my real scott addict SL. Felt just as stiff as the real thing, but its quite a bit heavier. Hopefully in a few years these chinese frames will come down in weight.
> Everything else was great though, i took a lot of pictures below with weights and descriptions. Email me if you have questions about the build gte534j at gmail


Thanks for that info. I have a Matte black on order. I also ordered two headsets.


Lastly!! Does anybody know if they offer a zero offset seatpost?? I've asked, and they don't understand the difference between non-isp and zero offset!!!!

Thanks


----------



## Roux-en-y

@Vee:

I´ve seen on Ebay that your bike has become an official design from Deng Fu? 


:thumbsup:


----------



## gte534j

zigmeister said:


> Thanks for that info. I have a Matte black on order. I also ordered two headsets.
> 
> 
> Lastly!! Does anybody know if they offer a zero offset seatpost?? I've asked, and they don't understand the difference between non-isp and zero offset!!!!
> 
> Thanks


i have not seen any pics or info for a zero offset seatpost. I noticed that too when i ordered the bike. The real foil is a zero offset seatpost. Im not sure if you could buy just that seatpost. You might need to just find a seat that has a lot of forwards/aft adjust ability in the rails.


----------



## zigmeister

gte534j said:


> i have not seen any pics or info for a zero offset seatpost. I noticed that too when i ordered the bike. The real foil is a zero offset seatpost. Im not sure if you could buy just that seatpost. You might need to just find a seat that has a lot of forwards/aft adjust ability in the rails.


The real Foil for 54cm and smaller frames comes with a zero-offset. 56cm larger, offset. That is straight from Scott rep I exchanged emails with about 3-4 months ago when they were launching the frame originally.

But, I just like a steeper angle, like the frame is built, the offset makes the frame less aggressive. I emailed them one more time asking with a picture attached...haha..maybe they will understand it better?

Thanks


----------



## Bridgey

Just something of interest to those buying a Chinarello.

I ordered a 2012 Chinarello 56cm.Black/Blue/Black (identical to 2012 Pinarello Azzurro) from GreatKeen. I was happy to see that the top tube was approx only 55cm. Most 56cm bikes have top tubes of around 56 to 56.5cm. I have short arms. 

Looking at the actual Pinarello site I saw that their 56cm frames actually have a 56.5cm top tube. I thought it strange such a geometry difference between the 2 given that the mold is meant to be similar. But as I researched more, I realised that the Chinarello 56cm frame geometry is actually identical to the Pinarello 54cm (other than the higher seat tube height. I sure hope GreatKeen haven't mixed it up and the Geometry is as advertised on the site. Will post pictures when it comes along with my build.


----------



## Bridgey

Just something of interest to those buying a Chinarello.

I ordered a 2012 Chinarello 56cm.Black/Blue/Black (identical to 2012 Pinarello Azzurro) from GreatKeen. I was happy to see that the top tube was approx only 55cm. Most 56cm bikes have top tubes of around 56 to 56.5cm. I have short arms. 

Looking at the actual Pinarello site I saw that their 56cm frames actually have a 56.5cm top tube. I thought it strange such a geometry difference between the 2 given that the mold is meant to be similar. But as I researched more, I realised that the Chinarello 56cm frame geometry is actually identical to the Pinarello 54cm (other than the higher seat tube height. I sure hope GreatKeen haven't mixed it up and the Geometry is as advertised on the site. Will post pictures when it comes along with my build.


----------



## amenzies

Cheers,

Alan



Midwest Playa said:


> Heres your answer to your issue. Go to a local specialized shop and bring them your bike so you can show them your front derailleure hanger. Ask them to replace it with an original tarmac part.. Go ahead and order a large pepperoni and sausage pizzaa for the whole shop and believe me its worth every penny. If you take care of your folks, they will do the same. My mechanic had to do some minor grinding here and there to make it fit and did not charge me a dime for the work. .
> 
> The black piece on my hand is the chinarello part, and the one on the bike is a tarmac hanger derailleure
> 
> Good Luck.


----------



## amenzies

Bridgey

I have a 2012 Chinarello 56cm from Greatkeen the top tube is 55cm, just measured it. got it in Black and Blue Sky colours looks really good built up

Alan





Bridgey said:


> Just something of interest to those buying a Chinarello.
> 
> I ordered a 2012 Chinarello 56cm.Black/Blue/Black (identical to 2012 Pinarello Azzurro) from GreatKeen. I was happy to see that the top tube was approx only 55cm. Most 56cm bikes have top tubes of around 56 to 56.5cm. I have short arms.
> 
> Looking at the actual Pinarello site I saw that their 56cm frames actually have a 56.5cm top tube. I thought it strange such a geometry difference between the 2 given that the mold is meant to be similar. But as I researched more, I realised that the Chinarello 56cm frame geometry is actually identical to the Pinarello 54cm (other than the higher seat tube height. I sure hope GreatKeen haven't mixed it up and the Geometry is as advertised on the site. Will post pictures when it comes along with my build.


----------



## Bridgey

Amenzies you got any photos of your build. Would really like to see it.


----------



## amenzies

Here you go





















Bridgey said:


> Amenzies you got any photos of your build. Would really like to see it.


----------



## castofone

Hi all,

Can anyone point me to the frame set that's like the Neo. Its an older one about 900 grams IIRC


----------



## Kupkake

Just ordered my 52cm FM028 off eBay from CaronZone!
Also sourced a set of carbon wheels localy off craigslist for a steal!

Gonna build it up on sram apex, but should be a nice solid build for this season! can't wait!
Will keep ppl posted about the shipping, ect. thnx to everyone who helped with the sizing and such.


----------



## Reeve

amenzies said:


> Here you go


thats a really nice colour combination you have there. blue and black looks good.


----------



## amenzies

Cheers,

Looks even better in the flesh

Alan




Reeve said:


> thats a really nice colour combination you have there. blue and black looks good.


----------



## Bridgey

amenzies said:


> Cheers,
> 
> Looks even better in the flesh
> 
> Alan


Nice bike. I tossed and turned over that one and the sky green (rainforest) version, but ended getting their black/blue/black Azzurro copy. 

I did however get them to change the bottom bracket into BB30 and the decals to 'Chinarello MAD-DOG. Thought about leaving it as a Pinarello, but just couldn't. Besides i like different. Be great if GreatKeen started using the now famous Chinarello name brand. I'm sure most of us would have still bought.

Can't wait. 30 to 35 days they said. it's been 7!!


----------



## amenzies

I am thinking about removing the writing from the frame myself, do you know if they use decals or paint. if you are from UK get them to set the invoice uner $100 as mine was $140 and I got hit for import duty

Alan



Bridgey said:


> Nice bike. I tossed and turned over that one and the sky green (rainforest) version, but ended getting their black/blue/black Azzurro copy.
> 
> I did however get them to change the bottom bracket into BB30 and the decals to 'Chinarello MAD-DOG. Thought about leaving it as a Pinarello, but just couldn't. Besides i like different. Be great if GreatKeen started using the now famous Chinarello name brand. I'm sure most of us would have still bought.
> 
> Can't wait. 30 to 35 days they said. it's been 7!!


----------



## Bridgey

They called it decal, yet some on the forum have said paint. Watching an actual Pinarello frame making thing on youtube, they used decals. I'm in Australia. Why was your invoice only 140? Mine was 700 and something for everything? 

I had to pay an extra $40 to change the decals. I am hoping however that they keep the fancy looking 2decal as on the 2012 frames. 

It took me ages to come up with the name. I thought of Chinarello Bogma, Dogman, Wild-Dog and even thought about DogPoo like that other guy did. But in the end settled for Mad-Dog. I think if you're happy with Pinarello leave it. I would have love to, but didn't want to have to admit it was a clone to everyone that asked about how I afforded it, etc.


----------



## Vee

There is a misunderstanding about what decals mean. Decals can be vinyl or water float. The vinyl decals go OVER a painted/clearcoated surface. Water float decals go on over paint before clearcoat. Water float decals are only removable by sanding the frame down and repainting and re-clearing the areas where the decals are. Water floating decals on is a semi-permanent process. Vinyl decals, on the other hand, can almost always be peeled right off. Very rarely are they clear coated over, as that is a very wrong (and ghetto) way to decal a bike.

These manufacturers are all using water float decals to label these bikes.


----------



## FTR

Vee said:


> There is a misunderstanding about what decals mean. Decals can be vinyl or water float. The vinyl decals go OVER a painted/clearcoated surface. Water float decals go on over paint before clearcoat. Water float decals are only removable by sanding the frame down and repainting and re-clearing the areas where the decals are. Water floating decals on is a semi-permanent process. Vinyl decals, on the other hand, can almost always be peeled right off. Very rarely are they clear coated over, as that is a very wrong (and ghetto) way to decal a bike.
> 
> These manufacturers are all using water float decals to label these bikes.


From my discussions with Lisa at Miracle, my new frame will be painted with decals used for both the second colour and branding.


----------



## brewbiker

Hey first post here. I have sifted through the billions of posts on these forums but maybe missed what I was looking for. I am about to pull the trigger on an FM098 but am having trouble choosing the right size. From what I can gather on the Deng Fu website it appears that what they call a 58cm frame is actually what most of us would consider a 55cm frame (center of bottom bracket to top of seat post insert). Is this correct does anyone have experience with sizing on the fm098? If I typically ride a 56 should I consider the 58cm fm098? How does the unique geometry of the fm098 play into things? Sorry for the rudimentary questions. Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## Bridgey

brewbiker said:


> Hey first post here. I have sifted through the billions of posts on these forums but maybe missed what I was looking for. I am about to pull the trigger on an FM098 but am having trouble choosing the right size. From what I can gather on the Deng Fu website it appears that what they call a 58cm frame is actually what most of us would consider a 55cm frame (center of bottom bracket to top of seat post insert). Is this correct does anyone have experience with sizing on the fm098? If I typically ride a 56 should I consider the 58cm fm098? How does the unique geometry of the fm098 play into things? Sorry for the rudimentary questions. Any help would be appreciated.


Forget the vertical size. Buy your bike based on the horizontal distance of the top tube. If you don't know what size you are this way, it is a very good idea to find out. But yes based on my understanding, the 56cm should be considered a 58cm. I have heard most people have had good experiences with Deng Fu but one not so much. He reported he was a little slow on the warranty issues. I think the internal cable slots weren't working and he had to do it externally instead. Haven't heard any other issues though. Should be a nice fast bike. Almost identical to the Specialized Venge.


----------



## xsnailx

Hello, first post here, but i am not new to chinese carbon product - last year i have bought serval sets of rims there for my club. Now i am looking for a frame for my self. My top priority is weight so i have already found FM-R830SL+FK-R830 combo (planet x nanolight) but i dont feel that they have 830 grams i suspect that they are heavier. And hard to obtain. i know that neo cycles had a frame that was around 900 g but browsing trough 5 threads couldnt find it. My question is if there are any frames in above weight range?


----------



## cocomo

FTR said:


> Different frame but my size 58 FM028 came in at 6.98kg (15.4 lbs) with mixed SRAM groupset (Rival levers, Force derailleurs, Red crank), Speedplay's, SMP Composit saddle and 1100g Mad Fiber's.
> Sadly it is now retired after I was hit by a car a few weeks ago. Jury is out on the replacement at the moment.


who did the paint job? It looks really high quality.


----------



## Chadwick890

So question about ISP and China bikes.
More specificly the FM098 does anyone know if theres after market seat topper you can get that might fit the seat mast?

It looks like below.

Also what does Ridley use for there ISP ones?


----------



## FTR

cocomo said:


> who did the paint job? It looks really high quality.



Dengfu.


----------



## cocomo

Thanks, just spotted it on their alibaba page


----------



## mzekew

Another first time poster here. Been reading threads and following builds for a few months, now. Just pulled the trigger on a 60cm FM029 (internal routed FM028) which will replace my old aluminum Felt F95. Worked with Lucy at Dengfu. Looking forward to the build (SRAM Rival) and sharing pics and experience with the purchase process. Guess I have a few weeks to get the pre-required post count before pics can be posted. Anyway - great forum, here. Ready to finally contribute!


----------



## maxxevv

brewbiker said:


> Hey first post here. I have sifted through the billions of posts on these forums but maybe missed what I was looking for. I am about to pull the trigger on an FM098 but am having trouble choosing the right size. From what I can gather on the Deng Fu website it appears that what they call a 58cm frame is actually what most of us would consider a 55cm frame (center of bottom bracket to top of seat post insert). Is this correct does anyone have experience with sizing on the fm098? If I typically ride a 56 should I consider the 58cm fm098? How does the unique geometry of the fm098 play into things? Sorry for the rudimentary questions. Any help would be appreciated.


Take the horizontal measurement from the intersection point of the headtube and top tube till its the centreline of your seatpost( if its a sloping/compact frame). :blush2:

Edit: It should be the centerline of the top tube and centerline of headtube intersection point. (Hope it clarifies it up somewhat. ) 

And take the measurement of the headtube overall length, from intersection of fork till headset cap intersection. 

Match these 2 measurements to that of the frame geometry charts for the FM098. And you should get a frame size that "fits you closest." from the selection.


----------



## rover19

So I've read through a lot of 5.0 and 6.0, but much of the discussion goes right over my head. 

Is there a basic summary someone could point me to regarding this whole process?

Basically, I'm wondering 

1. How much these bikes tend to cost all-in. I understand that the components, wheels and such are a huge part of that, but even some rough ballpark figures would be great. For example, if I wanted to build a carbon bike with SRAM Apex or Rival components and some basic, not-super-fancy wheels, how much are we talking?

2. How people tend to source the frames and what the process is. How much customization is involved? Conversely, how standardized is it?

Thanks for any replies. I'm sure these answers are buried in the multitude of posts (and I've seen some posts that give me an inkling), but I can't seem to find a good summary for a newbie like me.


----------



## Vee

rover19 said:


> So I've read through a lot of 5.0 and 6.0, but much of the discussion goes right over my head.
> 
> Is there a basic summary someone could point me to regarding this whole process?
> 
> Basically, I'm wondering
> 
> 1. How much these bikes tend to cost all-in. I understand that the components, wheels and such are a huge part of that, but even some rough ballpark figures would be great. For example, if I wanted to build a carbon bike with SRAM Apex or Rival components and some basic, not-super-fancy wheels, how much are we talking?
> 
> 2. How people tend to source the frames and what the process is. How much customization is involved? Conversely, how standardized is it?
> 
> Thanks for any replies. I'm sure these answers are buried in the multitude of posts (and I've seen some posts that give me an inkling), but I can't seem to find a good summary for a newbie like me.


Here is an overview: VeloBuild.com - Chinese Carbon Fiber Bicycle Frames for Road, Mountain, Cycle Cross and Time Trial information - Chinese Carbon Bike Build Advice

There is a lot to learn, and this post barely scratches the surface.

Here is also a list of some of the more popular vendor options and some of the basic info on finish and frame types: http://conceyted.com/downloads/chineseframeinfo.pdf

This is the first time I am sharing that PDF with the public, but I think I have helped quite a few people with it in the past.


----------



## rover19

Vee said:


> Here is an overview: VeloBuild.com - Chinese Carbon Fiber Bicycle Frames for Road, Mountain, Cycle Cross and Time Trial information - Chinese Carbon Bike Build Advice
> 
> There is a lot to learn, and this post barely scratches the surface.
> 
> Here is also a list of some of the more popular vendor options and some of the basic info on finish and frame types: http://conceyted.com/downloads/chineseframeinfo.pdf
> 
> This is the first time I am sharing that PDF with the public, but I think I have helped quite a few people with it in the past.


Thanks! That information is immensely helpful. That first link should be in the first post of these stickies.

How about pricing? Seems like lots of people post pics of their rides, but I tend to see less information on the final cost with everything included.


----------



## Vee

rover19 said:


> Thanks! That information is immensely helpful. That first link should be in the first post of these stickies.
> 
> How about pricing? Seems like lots of people post pics of their rides, but I tend to see less information on the final cost with everything included.


Search these threads for the word "build list" or "total cost" and I would bet you come up with a few results. 

Here is a link to my posts on both of my chinese carbon bikes complete with build lists, photos, cost, and weights: 
VeloBuild.com - Chinese Carbon Fiber Bicycle Frames for Road, Mountain, Cycle Cross and Time Trial information - Vee's FM018 TT Build
VeloBuild.com - Chinese Carbon Fiber Bicycle Frames for Road, Mountain, Cycle Cross and Time Trial information - Vee's FM015


----------



## MTBMaven

Chadwick890 said:


> So question about ISP and China bikes.
> More specificly the FM098 does anyone know if theres after market seat topper you can get that might fit the seat mast?


Look back to some early post in 5.0 or maybe even 4.0 thread for a guy who used something from Woodman topper if I remember correctly. It was a much nicer looking and lighter than the stock toppers.


----------



## Vee

MTBMaven said:


> Look back to some early post in 5.0 or maybe even 4.0 thread for a guy who used something from Woodman topper if I remember correctly. It was a much nicer looking and lighter than the stock toppers.


The FM098 has a non-round seatpost. Chances are that you will not be able to find a setpost made to fit the FM098, since the shape of aero posts are not standard.


----------



## DudeMtn

Bridgey said:


> They called it decal, yet some on the forum have said paint. Watching an actual Pinarello frame making thing on youtube, they used decals. I'm in Australia. Why was your invoice only 140? Mine was 700 and something for everything?
> 
> I had to pay an extra $40 to change the decals. I am hoping however that they keep the fancy looking 2decal as on the 2012 frames.
> 
> It took me ages to come up with the name. I thought of Chinarello Bogma, Dogman, Wild-Dog and even thought about DogPoo like that other guy did. But in the end settled for Mad-Dog. I think if you're happy with Pinarello leave it. I would have love to, but didn't want to have to admit it was a clone to everyone that asked about how I afforded it, etc.


Bridgey, pics will be welcome as soon as you have stuff to toss out there:thumbsup:


----------



## DudeMtn

brewbiker said:


> Hey first post here. I have sifted through the billions of posts on these forums but maybe missed what I was looking for. I am about to pull the trigger on an FM098 but am having trouble choosing the right size. From what I can gather on the Deng Fu website it appears that what they call a 58cm frame is actually what most of us would consider a 55cm frame (center of bottom bracket to top of seat post insert). Is this correct does anyone have experience with sizing on the fm098? If I typically ride a 56 should I consider the 58cm fm098? How does the unique geometry of the fm098 play into things? Sorry for the rudimentary questions. Any help would be appreciated.


brewbiker,
i am 5' 11" and 185. for what its worth i normally ride a 56 and went with the 58 in my FM015 from DengFu ~ fits perfect. Good Luck!


----------



## ms6073

MTBMaven said:


> Look back to some early post in 5.0 or maybe even 4.0 thread for a guy who used something from Woodman topper if I remember correctly. It was a much nicer looking and lighter than the stock toppers.


Sort of a topic drift but considering how much information gets posted compared to how often forum users visit these threads with questions about specific frames, why do we continue to populate mega threads rather than posting model or manufacturer specific threads? I suspect there are many others would much rather read through a more limited number of pages of posts regarding, say the Dengfu FM029 or FM098, as opposed to trying to stay current or wade through 70 page mega threads that wonder all over the place in terms of subect matter and content!


----------



## Hiro11

rover19 said:


> How about pricing? Seems like lots of people post pics of their rides, but I tend to see less information on the final cost with everything included.


It's really hard to generalize. The frame's relatively easy to price. An unpainted (gloss) frame for a standard mold is typically about $350. Newer molds run about $500, topping out at maybe $650. These prices typically include a fork and often a seatpost, headset and seat clamp but not shipping which is usually $75-90.

Beyond that, it gets really hard to quantify without getting specific. A basic build might start with an Apex group at about $550 with fees on Ebay. Wheels are all over the map, but figure at least $400 for a good set (Neuvation makes great wheels that cost a bit less than that). Cockpits also vary widely, a good alloy bar and stem might be $100-$150. Tires can run from $25 to $75. Cables, maybe $50 for a good set at retail, a lot cheaper if you look around. A reasonable saddle is maybe $50. Tape, tubes, pedals... etc. All in, a basic build is probably at least $1,600 without pedals if you're buying everything new, a bit more if you include shipping costs and the like. This is cheaper but not a lot cheaper than what you can find in an LBS. I'd say a typical Apex build might save about $300-500 before taxes vs a store bought bike of similar caliber. The savings are smaller or perhaps non-existent compared to a budget house like BD ($1,600 will get you full carbon and Ultegra there, here's full carbon/Ultegra for $1400). Of course a build like the one I've specified would most likely be significantly higher quality than something like a BD but perhaps not. You really need to define a specific build to get a better idea.

You will of course need to build it up yourself to save incremental cost (which is probably at least $150-200 (?) at a good shop) and you certainly have to know exactly what you want before you order: there's no test riding in this route. You can save a lot more money if you're willing to scrounge components at bike swaps and the like but that's a borderline hobby. If you're careful you can get a pretty great bike together for a fraction of what it would cost in a shop, but that takes more work than simply buying everything retail. 

As other have said, this is probably not an option for everyone. If you have a patience, enjoy assembling bikes, have a bunch of good spare parts around or know how to get some cheaply, it can be a very economical route to a nice bike. But there's a fair amount of hassle and work involved.


----------



## rover19

Hiro11 said:


> It's really hard to generalize. The frame's relatively easy to price. An unpainted (gloss) frame for a standard mold is typically about $350. Newer molds run about $500, topping out at maybe $650. These prices typically include a fork and often a seatpost, headset and seat clamp but not shipping which is usually $75-90.
> 
> Beyond that, it gets really hard to quantify without getting specific. A basic build might start with an Apex group at about $550 with fees on Ebay. Wheels are all over the map, but figure at least $400 for a good set (Neuvation makes great wheels that cost a bit less than that). Cockpits also vary widely, a good alloy bar and stem might be $100-$150. Tires can run from $25 to $75. Cables, maybe $50 for a good set at retail, a lot cheaper if you look around. A reasonable saddle is maybe $50. Tape, tubes, pedals... etc. All in, a basic build is probably at least $1,600 without pedals if you're buying everything new, a bit more if you include shipping costs and the like. This is cheaper but not a lot cheaper than what you can find in an LBS. I'd say a typical Apex build might save about $300-500 before taxes vs a store bought bike of similar caliber. The savings are smaller or perhaps non-existent compared to a budget house like BD ($1,600 will get you full carbon and Ultegra there, here's full carbon/Ultegra for $1400). Of course a build like the one I've specified would most likely be significantly higher quality than something like a BD but perhaps not. You really need to define a specific build to get a better idea.
> 
> You will of course need to build it up yourself to save incremental cost (which is probably at least $150-200 (?) at a good shop) and you certainly have to know exactly what you want before you order: there's no test riding in this route. You can save a lot more money if you're willing to scrounge components at bike swaps and the like but that's a borderline hobby. If you're careful you can get a pretty great bike together for a fraction of what it would cost in a shop, but that takes more work than simply buying everything retail.
> 
> As other have said, this is probably not an option for everyone. If you have a patience, enjoy assembling bikes, have a bunch of good spare parts around or know how to get some cheaply, it can be a very economical route to a nice bike. But there's a fair amount of hassle and work involved.



Thanks. That's _exactly_ the information I was looking for.


----------



## bikerdude221

Hey everyone,

Having issues with my FM018 seat clamp. I am using a carbon seat which it's rails are oval (7mmx9.5mm) and the clamp that comes with the bike are for round rails. The seat rails are not sitting properly causing it to slip out. I searched in the forum and seen Bontrager come up as a replacement but nothing showing if the clamps are oval or round.

Would anyone have a suggestion/knowledge of a manufacture that does make/sell complete 1 bolt clamping unit to replace what came with the FM018?

Thanks in advance
**ps Ritchey sells a unit but just the sides pieces and not the inner plastic core so Oval/rond does not work**


----------



## Vee

bikerdude221 said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> Having issues with my FM018 seat clamp. I am using a carbon seat which it's rails are oval (7mmx9.5mm) and the clamp that comes with the bike are for round rails. The seat rails are not sitting properly causing it to slip out. I searched in the forum and seen Bontrager come up as a replacement but nothing showing if the clamps are oval or round.
> 
> Would anyone have a suggestion/knowledge of a manufacture that does make/sell complete 1 bolt clamping unit to replace what came with the FM018?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> **ps Ritchey sells a unit but just the sides pieces and not the inner plastic core so Oval/rond does not work**


:mad2: Click back a page or two for god's sake....


----------



## bikerdude221

Sorry to upset you there Mr Vee,

I did searched for FM018 + 1 Bolt Seat Clamp with no success so I came here and asked... (WITHOUT READING THE WHOLE SUB FORUMS V5 and V6)

I did go back to the beginning as suggested and saw Reeve questioning the same. So I search for Bontrager as you mentioned the key word and found the direct link on their site.

Bontrager: Seatpost Head Parts (Model #06096)

Thank you for your guidance


----------



## Chadwick890

Vee said:


> :mad2: Click back a page or two for god's sake....


 This!


----------



## FTR

Chadwick890 said:


> This!


Plus a zillionty. :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:


----------



## Reeve

bikerdude221 said:


> Sorry to upset you there Mr Vee,
> 
> I did searched for FM018 + 1 Bolt Seat Clamp with no success so I came here and asked... (WITHOUT READING THE WHOLE SUB FORUMS V5 and V6)
> 
> I did go back to the beginning as suggested and saw Reeve questioning the same. So I search for Bontrager as you mentioned the key word and found the direct link on their site.
> 
> Thank you for your guidance


Hi bikerdude221,

I've contacted my LBS and it is about US $15 over here. I guess it should be around that price. I'll be getting it tomorrow. Will report back!


----------



## GA1911

Rover...I am currently waiting for my FM015 frame, fork, seatpost, headset, and steering spacers to come in from Hong Fu. Unfortunately they did not have any BB30 frames when I placed my order, so I have to wait. I bought the Force/Red drivetrain new, take-off, and used off eBay. Wheels, American Classics, from Craigslist. Other odds and ends from eBay and internet/local retailers. My total cost will come in around $2300 for everything. I am hoping to have a 17 lb. bike in a 58 cm frame, and for this price I would say that is a good deal.


----------



## bikerdude221

Seriously guys, if you don't have anything good to say or help someone asking for assistance BE QUIET and move on to the next posting. Your cold un-suportive replies are the ones that end up hurting this forum in the long run.

You yip and yap about people using the search and all, many do search with no success like what I had yesterday till Vee advised to look back a few pages behind for some discussion. Which lead to the specific search that would yield the best result.

The question I posted was very descriptive and what I had found but with uncertainty. So it is obvious that I did search without locating the specifics.



> I've contacted my LBS and it is about US $15 over here. I guess it should be around that price. I'll be getting it tomorrow. Will report back!


Reeve, thanks for the info and an update would be great once you receive the part.


----------



## Kupkake

rover19 said:


> 1. How much these bikes tend to cost all-in. I understand that the components, wheels and such are a huge part of that, but even some rough ballpark figures would be great. For example, if I wanted to build a carbon bike with SRAM Apex or Rival components and some basic, not-super-fancy wheels, how much are we talking?


I just sourced a full 2011 takeoff Apex group & FSA Compact bars off ebay for $430 Shipped. 
I also just ordered a FM028+Fork from Carbonzone from ebay for $500 shipped. 
Found a set of Chinese Carbon Tubs 38mm on craigslist for $275 picked up. (best deal so far, brand new)

Minus standard build parts and a few small stuff off my old Fuji...
I'm going to have this new bike for under $1400. I'm right around $1,200 in now. 
I think that lands you in Trek 1.2 or Cervelo RS bracket.. Alu vs Carbon. Custom parts vs Box Built Bike. Coming from BMX, where I build my bikes, wheels ect, I like building bikes and customizing certain things along the way. 

Given that price, for what I consider I'm getting, i'll have much more value in this bike then a new bike purchased from my LBS. Youtube can teach you how to build the bike, and anything that needs special tools your LBS will prob help out with for around $20 labor. 

Plus I have a almost 90% complete bike, which my gf is going to ride this season on a dif frame tho, one that fits her. The value is def present as long as you find stuff used / takeoff. Anything I consider buying new, use Google Shopping, helps a lot. Run the product thru amazon, ect.


----------



## Bridgey

My aim was to have a training bike and a race bike. As I already have plenty of spares it has only cost me about $1200 AUD to do this all up. I'm swapping my Force/Red parts from my current bike (Pedal Force CG1) to the new Chinarello. I alreadyhave a pair of race wheels: Yishun wheels (50mm) and put on Corima Aero stickers. Went for the FSA carbon handlebars from GreatKeen vs the integrated, etc 

For the training bike (CG1) I got most of my parts (SRAM Rival) from Ribble. Dirt cheap. Cheaper than ebay even. Bought a FSA Gossamer Crankset take off for about $70. Deda Newton stem $30 and a few other small odd bits.. The rest I already have. Place pictures of both up when I finish, with build and costs.


----------



## gordy748

**sigh* Chinese carbon bike it'll be...*

So I've decided to build up a decent winter bike I can use and abuse. Budget is $1k max sans wheels, using Campagnolo kit and 11 speed. Right now the 11 speed idea has gone out the window so going with plain old 10 speed.

So looking at frames... I have tried looking at ti, steel, second hand, new, you name it... you just can't beat a brand new Hongfu frame for 400 bucks.

Or can you?


----------



## zender

I have a Dengfu as a rain/indoor/beater bike. It's the Pedalforce RS-3, can't remember what FM-XX that is. I build it up with Microshift brifters and front/rear derailleur (so cheap, the stuff is disposable) and some dura-ace calipers I had laying around. I had an assortment of wheels, stem, bars hanging around so all I had to buy was a new post (came with a set-back but I needed zero offset). This thing has been dropped twice, lots of heavy rain, lots of indoor trainer time, not the worse for wear, 2800 miles so far. If I ever see it develop a hairline crack, it's going in the trash and I'll get another one.


----------



## MammothSlacker

I love the matte black. Where did your friend buy that frame? I've seen similar ones on DHGate, but am a little hesitant to buy from there. 

Thanks for the info


----------



## MammothSlacker

Midwest Playa said:


> I took my friends Chinarello tonight so I can start putting it together. If you are a fan of black stealth matte black wait till you see this one. If I didnt have a black beauty (SL3 Tarmac) I would have definitely chosen this color.
> 
> Update 02/24/12
> 
> I am slowly putting this together because I need some parts anyways. Again wanted to remind everyone who pmd me. Make sure that factory makes a change on that Front Derrailleure hanger mount which is too flimsy or just get your local bike shop to replace it with a stifffer one. Either way you will still be thousands of dollars ahead on savings.


I love the matte black. Where did your friend buy that frame? I've seen similar ones on DHGate, but am a little hesitant to buy from there. 

Thanks for the info


----------



## persondude27

The problem with buying these things is that if you don't have a good fit already, you can spend a few extra dollars tweaking things. I needed a setback seatpost, so went through two Chinese carbon ones because the first slipped. I tweaked my position, got it dialed in... and then realized that my zero setback post was perfect. Same with the handlebars - I bought the Chinese carbon ergo style, but the drop is just too extreme on them. I just (yesterday) bought a set of FSA Omegas for $30 to replace my $60 Chinese carbon ones. It's been hard to convince myself to add the extra 43g of weight to my bike, but I'll survive. 

I've probably spent $150 on tweaking a fit, but I insist on doing it myself. 



Kupkake said:


> I just sourced a full 2011 takeoff Apex group & FSA Compact bars off ebay for $430 Shipped.
> 
> Given that price, for what I consider I'm getting, i'll have much more value in this bike then a new bike purchased from my LBS. Youtube can teach you how to build the bike, and anything that needs special tools your LBS will prob help out with for around $20 labor.


Yeah... most of the tools can actually be had for about what the shop charges in labor (cable cutting tools, bottom bracket tools, cassette tools, etc). I've found that it was worth getting one of those $150 toolkit setups and then buying around it (cable cutters and a BB tool). I still need a wheel stand and a work stand, but I think girlfriend would scoff at having that in our small apartment...



gordy748 said:


> So I've decided to build up a decent winter bike I can use and abuse. Budget is $1k max sans wheels, using Campagnolo kit and 11 speed. Right now the 11 speed idea has gone out the window so going with plain old 10 speed.
> 
> So looking at frames... I have tried looking at ti, steel, second hand, new, you name it... you just can't beat a brand new Hongfu frame for 400 bucks.
> 
> Or can you?


$1,000 is going to be a REAL tight squeeze. If you're going to do it, I would have started it about two weeks ago. Parts here in the US are starting to go on firesale as people get their refund checks and buy this season's bike. Last week, I built up girlfriend's road bike (she's a tri-ath-uh-lete) with DA 7800 for $240!

I'd say your best bet is trying to land a "build kit" - lots of people are selling shifters, derailleurs, cranksets, derailleurs, brakes, and sometimes even handlebars and saddles, for basically the price of the first four items.

If you end up short on parts, let me know what you're looking for. I have spares of a few (stems, seatposts, saddles, etc) sitting around.


----------



## foofighter

Midwest Playa said:


> I took my friends Chinarello tonight so I can start putting it together. If you are a fan of black stealth matte black wait till you see this one. If I didnt have a black beauty (SL3 Tarmac) I would have definitely chosen this color.
> 
> Update 02/24/12
> 
> I am slowly putting this together because I need some parts anyways. Again wanted to remind everyone who pmd me. Make sure that factory makes a change on that Front Derrailleure hanger mount which is too flimsy or just get your local bike shop to replace it with a stifffer one. Either way you will still be thousands of dollars ahead on savings.


that chinarello looks the part, right down to the tear drop seatpost. Before that was the one of the tell tale signs that it was a knock off, now that they've got the seatpost to look like the original you'd have to really look hard to tell the difference


----------



## brewbiker

Thanks for the feedback guys


----------



## kevosinn

Mid west, where did you get yours! Ive been trying to find a place to get one that I know someone had got one from, it wont let me pm you thanks!


----------



## satonatree

kevosinn said:


> Mid west, where did you get yours! Ive been trying to find a place to get one that I know someone had got one from, it wont let me pm you thanks!


Me too please  Thanks Midwest


----------



## Reeve

bikerdude221 said:


> Seriously guys, if you don't have anything good to say or help someone asking for assistance BE QUIET and move on to the next posting. Your cold un-suportive replies are the ones that end up hurting this forum in the long run.
> 
> You yip and yap about people using the search and all, many do search with no success like what I had yesterday till Vee advised to look back a few pages behind for some discussion. Which lead to the specific search that would yield the best result.
> 
> The question I posted was very descriptive and what I had found but with uncertainty. So it is obvious that I did search without locating the specifics.
> 
> 
> 
> Reeve, thanks for the info and an update would be great once you receive the part.


Hey, I went to my LBS today, looks like they only have the EARS for the mount. not the main mount as well. I did not get the part. looks like i have to look for another saddle.. cant find any parts on ebay as well.. argh.


----------



## EightOhEight

Can anyone confirm what model my frame is?








Full Carbon Road Bike 58 Frame Fork Seatpost Headset | eBay
It's my first road bike bought/set-up last year. I love it.








Sram Rival groupset 
Planet X Model B wheels 
Ritchey WCS 4Axis Stem / 110 mm 
Ritchey WCS Logic 2 Handlebar / 42 cm 
Saddle Romin Pro 143mm 
Seat Clamp Token Superlite 
Continental Gp4000 Red/Black 
Michelin Aircomp Road Long Valve 
SRAM Supercork Bar Tape / Hoods


----------



## andresmuro

EightOhEight said:


> Can anyone confirm what model my frame is?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Full Carbon Road Bike 58 Frame Fork Seatpost Headset | eBay
> It's my first road bike bought/set-up last year. I love it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sram Rival groupset
> Planet X Model B wheels
> Ritchey WCS 4Axis Stem / 110 mm
> Ritchey WCS Logic 2 Handlebar / 42 cm
> Saddle Romin Pro 143mm
> Seat Clamp Token Superlite
> Continental Gp4000 Red/Black
> Michelin Aircomp Road Long Valve
> SRAM Supercork Bar Tape / Hoods


what is the seat clamp size?


----------



## andresmuro

andresmuro said:


> what is the seat clamp size?


I meant the derailer clamp size


----------



## EightOhEight

andresmuro said:


> I meant the derailer clamp size


34.9mm


----------



## mlrs_27m

Here is mine


----------



## EightOhEight

andresmuro said:


> I meant the derailer clamp size


34.9mm


----------



## xsnailx

maybe my question went unnoticed?
i am serarching for supply of FM-R830SL+FK-R830 or something equally light?
are there other open frames that weight less than 950 gram ?


----------



## Mankul

Midwest Playa said:


> This is for all you chinarello haters.lol
> 
> Shes rides just as good as my SL3 Tarmac, Cannondale Super Six and She definitely rides better than my 07 Gerolsteiner Tarmac.
> 
> I am $6,500 richer than the original owners. If I crash this thing for what ever reason or it gets stolen, I will not shed a single tear. I have no complains at all There was a minor issue needed replacement during the assembly like the mounting bracket for the front deraileure. The ones it came in was flexing and so the shifting was an issue. but its now corrected $20.00 for an original specialized part.
> 
> The original Dogma owners are just pissed because they could have saved that money for a cruise with their wife or vacation in the Bahamas. (Joke).
> 
> Anyways dont take my comments personal bottom line is this, I just purchased a 2011 brand new original SL3 Specialized bike and some of my friends decided to do a group buy on the chinarello so I jumped on the deal which I taught was pretty good. I work hard for my money, I pay my taxes,and I bought this bike legally just like any other purchase I made in the past..
> 
> This bike build cost me $850.00 including shipping for the FF: Frame, Fork, aero seat, integrated handlebar, headset. water bottle cage. (Original bontrager)
> 
> I decided to dressed her up with full Sram Red components and Selle smp full carbon saddle, Time rxs carbon pedals and I put on some Cinderella Carbon Easton slippers on her and she turned up to be sexier and lighter at 14.75 lbs.lol
> 
> If this frame last me one season it has done its job.I can always take the components and transfer it to another frame. if you noticed I mentioned "Original" Bontrager bottles, yes this company makes components for a major brand. They are not a hole in the wall operation. They have the proper equipment to do the stress test on ther frames. Its on the website which I am not going to post.All I can say is the facility is huge.
> 
> I am sure someone mentioned approx 75 percent of bikes are build in Asia thats a Guess give or take. I dont understand the issue with frames not holding up.lol
> 
> We did a group buy on this deal. Six frames and not one single complain or issues so far, and we ride our bikes hard. Each individual owner logged over 4k last year thats minimum the top dog did over 10K. I weigh 190 so I am not a peanut and I can tell you this frame is plenty stiff for me and comfortable at the same time.
> 
> If you look at my past threads my 2009 Cannondale Super Six which is made in the USA had a crack on the down tube and when Calfee went to work on it they found other cracks that needed repair by the water bottle mounts and the headset, so how can someone say an original frame is better? The repairs cost me close to $800.00 after it was all said and done. I could have bought another Chinarello for that price.lol
> 
> 
> My two cents


Any issues with the saddle clamp? I cant seem to adjust the saddle angle comfortably. The two bolts they give me are of the same lengths. I feel the bolt for the front nut should be a bit shorter... what about yours?


----------



## Mankul

I need to post post to be able to post pictures


----------



## andresmuro

mlrs_27m said:


> Here is mine


I ordered that frame this morning.


----------



## Chadwick890

Midwest Playa said:


> I did not give it to you .lol
> 
> GreatKeen Bike Sport Equipment Co.,Ltd


Am i the only one not surprised it was Greatkeen?


----------



## Vee

No reason to get secretive. I am sure GreatKeen wouldn't mind selling a ton of these.


----------



## Bridgey

Thats where i got my awesome looking 2012 Chinarello Azzurro (still waiting for delivery). Been about 1 1/2 weeks. I asked for BB30 though and changed the name. so it will take about 1mth. 

How long did yours take to arrive Midwest? I didn't get the integrated handlebars either. I went for the FSA carbon handbars and own Deda stem. Sure hope they keep all the other decals. Mine will look quite different from the pictures below (wheels, etc). Just as long as the paint job is the same.


----------



## EightOhEight

Can anyone tell from the photos below which FM this is?


EightOhEight said:


> Can anyone confirm what model my frame is?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Full Carbon Road Bike 58 Frame Fork Seatpost Headset | eBay
> It's my first road bike bought/set-up last year. I love it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sram Rival groupset
> Planet X Model B wheels
> Ritchey WCS 4Axis Stem / 110 mm
> Ritchey WCS Logic 2 Handlebar / 42 cm
> Saddle Romin Pro 143mm
> Seat Clamp Token Superlite
> Continental Gp4000 Red/Black
> Michelin Aircomp Road Long Valve
> SRAM Supercork Bar Tape / Hoods


Thanks


----------



## Steenj

For me it's look like a FM001 frame from Hong Fu.
I have bought one directly from Hong fu, waiting for it arrive in March month.


----------



## Bridgey

Midwest Playa said:


> Thats a Sweet looking bike Bro.
> 
> Ok now for your questions:
> How long did yours take to arrive Midwest?
> Apporx 1 month and 1 week because we ordered 6 frames and they came in seperate totaling 4 boxes, Keep in mind we ordered complete sets down to the bottle cages. We got a deal $820.00 for everything including the headset bearings.
> 
> I am going to buy another one I am sure and will defintely get BB30 set up.
> 
> To be honest I am not too crazy about the integrated handlebar. It looks good no doubt, but I stil prefer the 3T Stem with the 3T Ergonova handlebar just like on my Specialized Tarmac because I was fitted professionaly and I am very comfy with that set up.
> 
> The handlebar is integrated and the stem is tilted lower,making the handlebar lower will defintiely work for someone whos a freaking racer.lol I maxed out my spacer to 40mm to bring it a little higher and the the drops curve shape is more traditional.which is perfect for someone with longer fingers. I have my Sram Red Shifters maxed out as well so its as close as I can get them for my reach.
> 
> Worst case if I dont like the handlebar I can always replace it. I cant wait to ride it at the Vino Granfondo in May,
> 
> The only thing I want to give you heads up on the newer models, the front derailleure hanger is not thick enough and it will flex under load. Be ready to have your local bike shop get you one from a tarmac. This is the only thing that I felt needed modification which is very minor
> .
> Good Luck on your bike build:thumbsup:


I take it you got them for $820 each? And other than the front hanger, you had no problems? that's pretty good odds. I am going with my own stem for the same reasons as you want to. I was professionally fitted. I race but have short arms so can't get down as far as I'd like. Thanks for the tip on the tarmac hanger. Can I take the hanger off and use a wrap around front derrailleur? 

Paint job all top notch on all frames?


----------



## lyot2003

amenzies said:


> Bridgey
> 
> I have a 2012 Chinarello 56cm from Greatkeen the top tube is 55cm, just measured it. got it in Black and Blue Sky colours looks really good built up
> 
> Alan


Amenzies, wonderful Chinarello you have there ! Do you know the weight of that frame in that size ?


----------



## amenzies

The frame is 1280 as specified on greatkeen website, cant remember exact weight for the fork 300 or there abouts, the full bike is 17lbs built with Sram Red Levers, Apex brakes and rear deraileur, 105 front Dr, Ultegra SL chainset, wheels are FSA trimax pro that come in at 1550, Stem is Easton EA70, FSA compact bars, gatorskin tyres for the time being.

Alan



lyot2003 said:


> Amenzies, wonderful Chinarello you have there ! Do you know the weight of that frame in that size ?


----------



## Chadwick890

Just putting this out there....again any news on the Miracle Trade MC055?


----------



## lyot2003

amenzies said:


> The frame is 1280 as specified on greatkeen website, cant remember exact weight for the fork 300 or there abouts, the full bike is 17lbs built with Sram Red Levers, Apex brakes and rear deraileur, 105 front Dr, Ultegra SL chainset, wheels are FSA trimax pro that come in at 1550, Stem is Easton EA70, FSA compact bars, gatorskin tyres for the time being.
> 
> Alan


That's about as much as what one would expect from a real Pinarallo frame, right (a mechanized one, with paint and all that )?


----------



## Kupkake

Got my tracking Friday, I ordered a 52cm FM028 (RB002) off ebay from CarbonZone
Left Shenzhen Friday night and seems to be on its way. 

I figure a week to the US then at least another week to get to NJ, sound about right?


----------



## PaxRomana

lyot2003 said:


> That's about as much as what one would expect from a real Pinarallo frame, right (a mechanized one, with paint and all that )?


Yes, that weight is about the same. 

Which, frankly, is interesting. If the materials used are so different from real to fake, why are the weights so close?


----------



## rdt

*GreatKeen fit and sizing...*

For you guys who have the Pinarello from GreatKeen, what size did you get and what is your height? I know there are some individual variations, but I am attempting to get an idea of fit. I'm just under 5'9" and 155#. What is best size for me?

I have seen the geo charts on the site linked by Midwest. It says the size is the seat tube measurement, so a 54 would be 540mm and 56 a 560mm, right?

I am looking for a frame with a more relaxed geo rather than areo. 

If I understand the charts, it looks like the top tubes provide a shorter reach than a more stretched out areo style. Am I reading this right?

Thanks for you help with sorting this out.

Bob


----------



## amenzies

I have the 56cm the top tube is 55cm i am 5'10", just keep in mind the head tube is only 150cm so quite a low front end if you dont use spacers,

Alan



rdt said:


> For you guys who have the Pinarello from GreatKeen, what size did you get and what is your height? I know there are some individual variations, but I am attempting to get an idea of fit. I'm just under 5'9" and 155#. What is best size for me?
> 
> I have seen the geo charts on the site linked by Midwest. It says the size is the seat tube measurement, so a 54 would be 540mm and 56 a 560mm, right?
> 
> I am looking for a frame with a more relaxed geo rather than areo.
> 
> If I understand the charts, it looks like the top tubes provide a shorter reach than a more stretched out areo style. Am I reading this right?
> 
> Thanks for you help with sorting this out.
> 
> Bob


----------



## TRIPLE1050

*Mc 008 miracle*

FOR THE ATTENTION OF *Serve *AND *robc in wi*

Could you please post photos of the point that the cable exists the frame to attache to the Front Derailer. I have received mine and I am afraid that the hole is in wrong place. I am still waiting for the groupset to arrive so I cannot try to see if it is OK.Thank you very much in advance.


----------



## Bridgey

rdt said:


> For you guys who have the Pinarello from GreatKeen, what size did you get and what is your height? I know there are some individual variations, but I am attempting to get an idea of fit. I'm just under 5'9" and 155#. What is best size for me?
> 
> I have seen the geo charts on the site linked by Midwest. It says the size is the seat tube measurement, so a 54 would be 540mm and 56 a 560mm, right?
> 
> I am looking for a frame with a more relaxed geo rather than areo.
> 
> If I understand the charts, it looks like the top tubes provide a shorter reach than a more stretched out areo style. Am I reading this right?
> 
> Thanks for you help with sorting this out.
> 
> Bob


What you need to do is work out what top tube length you need and judge it from that. I am guessing a 54 or a 56cm Chinarello. They are shorter top tubes. A real Pinarello 56cm has a 56.5cm top tube. A real Pinarello 54cm has a 55cm top tube. 

When you compare the Chinarello geometry with the real Pinarello geometry it is downsized. In other words the Great Keen 56cm is really a Pinarello 54cm in every way (although the seat tube is still 56cm vs the Pinarello 54cm). Hope this makes sense. I am happy with this as I need a smaller top tube due to my shorter arms but, like you don't want to be too aggressive in the aero position. 

Like someone said, if you do go smaller to the Chinarello 54cm it comes with the smaller top tube, you run the risk of needing a heap of spacers to get your handlebars up high enough, especially in that you want a more relaxed geo. So I would think you will survive with the 56cm and a slightly shorter stem. Try and get sized up beforehand so you know how big your stem should be. I'm guessing about 100mm depending on how long your arms and torso are.


----------



## kevosinn

@ midwest.....did you just order direct off their store on aliexpress or did you talk to someone first? im ready to pull the trigger on one just want to make sure I do it right.


----------



## Chadwick890

So i just got my FM098 today from the group buy. ITs the ISP model just to be different lol but here are some pics and weights.

Mind the picture of the BB when that was taken the ISP clamp was in, so the weight is roughly 1450-1500 not really sure tbh xD i need a better scale.

It also wont be built up anytime soon, waiting for the new red to come out.


----------



## squirrelflip21

Midwest Playa - were there any issues with the cable guide under the bottom bracket....did it line up properly....thanks


----------



## kevosinn

just sent them an email to see if the have any 58's in stock...hope they do!


----------



## kevosinn

Chadwick890 said:


> So i just got my FM098 today from the group buy. ITs the ISP model just to be different lol but here are some pics and weights.
> 
> Mind the picture of the BB when that was taken the ISP clamp was in, so the weight is roughly 1450-1500 not really sure tbh xD i need a better scale.
> 
> It also wont be built up anytime soon, waiting for the new red to come out.



Thing looks bad ass!!!!!


----------



## meezo

kevosinn said:


> Thing looks bad ass!!!!!


and should look even more badass with new SRAM RED on it


----------



## Vee

The "new dogma" was never in the bag, its not a secret. Also, they are close perhaps but definitely not the same as the real deal. Look where the fork meets the downtube. The real deal has the fork molded into a shape left open by the downtube. The fake one does not.


----------



## foofighter

@vee - agreed it's not a replica of the Dogma2 however, it's a very good rendition of the previous Dogma. I'm curious though if its got the asymmetrical design.

It looks great in that matte black finish as it really shows the scalloping, I personally like that FOIL knock off though that looks hot


----------



## Vee

kevosinn said:


> im thinking that this is more of the shape of the prince? with dogma paint scheme?


It is.


----------



## Vee

The most intrigued I have been about a frame to date is the Miracle REUV, which appeared for a few days on Miracle's alibaba before being taken down. I have never heard anything about it since. It was similar to the cervelo S5.


----------



## kevosinn

im thinking that this is more of the shape of the prince? with dogma paint scheme?


----------



## timsen

My chinese is on his way.... :-D Yay !


----------



## kevosinn

I met a guy that has owned real and copy dogmas and he says they ride really close. He even said that the copy is a tad stiffer


----------



## relsah

schweeet!!!

does it have a cable guide under the bottom bracket?



Chadwick890 said:


> So i just got my FM098 today from the group buy. ITs the ISP model just to be different lol but here are some pics and weights.
> 
> Mind the picture of the BB when that was taken the ISP clamp was in, so the weight is roughly 1450-1500 not really sure tbh xD i need a better scale.
> 
> It also wont be built up anytime soon, waiting for the new red to come out.


----------



## lyot2003

This would be the Miracle REUV, I suppose ? 

happymtb.org/forum/file.php/1/file=166818/filename=Miracle_REUV2.jpg 

Sorry, can't post pictures, not enough postings yet


----------



## FTR

Vee said:


> The most intrigued I have been about a frame to date is the Miracle REUV, which appeared for a few days on Miracle's alibaba before being taken down. I have never heard anything about it since. It was similar to the cervelo S5.


They sent me a PDF of their catalog a couple of weeks ago and it was in there.
No price though.


----------



## Chadwick890

relsah said:


> schweeet!!!
> 
> does it have a cable guide under the bottom bracket?


No cable guide on mine  Going to need to run a cable housing under it


----------



## persondude27

FTR said:


> They sent me a PDF of their catalog a couple of weeks ago and it was in there.
> No price though.


Every time I see that frame:










I am wondering if I should replace my FM015 with a Foil copy or an S2 copy. I fit like a glove on a 56 cm S2, but most of the places only have a 54 cm mold. I am right between, but I ride so steep that I should be on the size larger (I need the bottom bracket farther back).

If they just started selling the REUV, I would just buy that and be very, very happy.


----------



## kevosinn

greatkeen have been responding to my emails very quick and ive got everything figured out . great to work with so far, cant wait to get my frame......gunna be full dura-ace with c50 wheels


----------



## Bridgey

Do any of you guys know the cheapest place to buy a plain unpainted carbon copy of the Chinarello frame and fork. Doesn't have to be the new version with aero seat post. Thinking about buying another one just as a training bike.


----------



## kevosinn

Midwest Playa said:


> Kevosinn just made the 10 most wanted hate list with that comment he just posted. :thumbsup:


ah damn haha not what I am intending to do


----------



## ptsbike55

Midwest,
Are your cables rubbing on the frame?


----------



## kevosinn

Midwest Playa said:


> Yes but I am not worried about it. My Canondale Super Six had the same issue, The cable rub on the bottom part. I know the fix to this issue just get a thicker cable guide that will give it a lift but I am not going to worry about it.
> 
> Thanks for asking let me know if you decide to make corrections on yours and the fix.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Just a suggestion someone should also open a special thread just for our bikes.I see diffrent groups of name brand bikes ie specialized, cannondale Cervelo etc etc. We should start a chinarello room do not necesarily have to be a pinarello look a like. I know that theres alot of non brand carbon frames made in Asia. Just so everyone can help ea other with diffrent issues and we can all help provide solutions on their bike builds. Can I get an amen.


Plus one


----------



## FTR

Midwest Playa said:


> Just a suggestion someone should also open a special thread just for our bikes.I see diffrent groups of name brand bikes ie specialized, cannondale Cervelo etc etc. We should start a chinarello room do not necesarily have to be a pinarello look a like. I know that theres alot of non brand carbon frames made in Asia. Just so everyone can help ea other with diffrent issues and we can all help provide solutions on their bike builds. Can I get an amen.


Midwest, I actually started a thread asking why any thread started about Chinese bikes was dumped back into this one and from there a suggestion was made that there should be a seperate forum.
My thread was then dumped into site feedback and from there was ignored.
I dont understand it. People can make any number of threads about Canondale, Moots, shoes, helmets, knicks etc and they are left alone but dare to start a thread that mentions Chinese carbon frames and it will be Moderated back to this thread.

Mine:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/sitefeedback-issues/why-272127.html

Someone elses:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/sitefeedback-issues/chinese-bike-frame-board-272186.html


----------



## kevosinn

@ mid west......does the frame have an asymetric shape like the real dogma? the flat black one looks like the chain stays are shaped different maybe?


----------



## Bridgey

Midwest Playa said:


> I am not sure how much you are willing to pay when you say cheap. You can get one for $400.00 shipped to you.To me thats basement price for a brand new full carbon bike frame. Email that link I provided maybe you can get it cheaper. Nothing wrong with trying to barter with the chinese, They will work with you. Just a piece of advise the Asian will work for little profit because they always think mass production sales, in the end they make some profit.


I already just bought my Chinarello race bike from GreatKeen. Are you saying they can give me a plain Chinarello for about $400? Was that round tube or aero? 

I only want it as a traiing bike as my current one is in need of replacing..


----------



## kevosinn

dude your help is amazing thanks so much!! one more question if you dont mind....how does the frame ride? I know you have the tarmac also. someone I met said they were very stiff and fast is that how you feel about yours? thanks again!!


----------



## kevosinn

yeah size was one thing I was worried about.....I ride a 58 on my scott addict and I want to make sure I order the right size obviously


----------



## squirrelflip21

*only the Black or the painted one too*

Midwest - was the seat post issue only with the Black Bike or on your painted one too? Thanks!



Midwest Playa said:


> Heres another issue that you might run into when you start putting you chinarello together. The seat post on the black beauty will not go in the seat tube. Warning do not force it in there or you are going to have some serous issues trying to get it out. Go to home depot and buy some 400 grit sand paper and with a bucket of water start sanding the clearcoat off. Put a tape on the piece that you know is going to be exposed. Just sand the part thats going to go in the seat tube. be patient and take your time and it will work. let me show you pics of before and after.
> 
> Another issue you might have is the end of the seat post making contact with the top portion of my Bottle cage mount . You know where you screw the bottle cage? The top portion. To fix this problem just cut the seat post approx 2 to 3 inches inches depending on the height you are going to need. I already know the height of my saddle so all I did was measure the center of my Bottom bracket to the top of my saddle. A hand saw from home depot will cut that seat tube no problem, you can even take it over there and just tell them how much to cut.
> 
> Hope this will help you
> 
> The Price of Vanity.LOL


----------



## xsnailx

Hello i am still seraching for something very light - never got a reply from Wenzhou Sunday Trade (FM-R830SL+FK-R830) anyone can help me with other light frame combo ?


----------



## timsen

I have to admitt, those "Dogma's" are looking really sexy!
My FM039 is on his way to me, but after I have seen the pictures of Midwest Playa I feel kinda bad about not buying an naked dogma! It should look good next to mine real Pinarello.


----------



## Chadwick890

Midwest Playa said:


> Chad support your local bike shop and have them order you one bro.lol


There is a issue with that as there is no hole for a Cable Guide, theres just two holes. Ill post a picture tomorrow when i get home of what i mean....Its pretty silly really.


----------



## Rainerhq

Chadwick890 said:


> It also wont be built up anytime soon, waiting for the new red to come out.


SRAM Red is already in shops!!!


----------



## Chadwick890

Rainerhq said:


> SRAM Red is already in shops!!!


Let me expand. Sram Red 2012(2013) The new one.


----------



## Rainerhq

Chadwick890 said:


> Let me expand. Sram Red 2012(2013) The new one.


Let me expand: SRAM RED Komplettgruppe 2012 1739g, 1.897,50 €


----------



## Chadwick890

Rainerhq said:


> Let me expand: SRAM RED Komplettgruppe 2012 1739g, 1.897,50 €


While you are being most helpful, this not what im looking for and im not going to spend over 2kAUD Let alone they arent even in stock at the moment making your last statment invalid. Please have a nice day.


----------



## Rainerhq

Chadwick890 said:


> While you are being most helpful, *this not what im looking for* and im not going to spend over 2kAUD Let alone they arent even in stock at the moment making your last statment invalid. Please have a nice day.


I thought you looking for new RED?
Gruppo will arrive 12.03.


----------



## timsen

BENG!! NEW ARRIVAL!


----------



## Bridgey

What aero frame is that one. Which bike was it cloned after. Looks really fast.


----------



## timsen

Bridgey said:


> What aero frame is that one. Which bike was it cloned after. Looks really fast.



It's a FM039 which clone it is... I don't know ?


----------



## Roux-en-y

I'm looking for an aero frame for triathlon. I've seen the fm 018 by Dengfu, but I haven´t seen many comments or reviews. Does anyone have any experience riding this one or other aero frames?


----------



## DudeMtn

Roux-en-y said:


> I'm looking for an aero frame for triathlon. I've seen the fm 018 by Dengfu, but I haven´t seen many comments or reviews. Does anyone have any experience riding this one or other aero frames?


Not sure about that exact frame. However, I've got the FM015 from DengFu and have nothing but great things to say about the communication, quality, value, ride and overall experience. There is absolutely No Question that if I had it to do over again - I would take my chances with one of these frames from over seas. Just my personal take.

Good luck.


----------



## xsnailx

for triathlon i would suggest either gotobike ws01 / YS-FM028:
wich is a clone of cinneli wysiwg
or any planet x exocet clone for example from cyclingyong or other suppilers ( GQ-T833 or FM233 from sanming wiss)


----------



## pschmidt

Where can I purchase a FM098 other than DengFu? It appears that Tony's email has been hacked (again). I lost $1,100 once, not looking to do it again.

Thanks


----------



## FTR

pschmidt said:


> Where can I purchase a FM098 other than DengFu? It appears that Tony's email has been hacked (again). I lost $1,100 once, not looking to do it again.
> 
> Thanks


Dont know what is going on with Dengfu.
I sent them about 6 emails to different email addresses I have for them and did not get a single response.
Ended up going elsewhere.


----------



## the mayor

FTR said:


> Dont know what is going on with Dengfu.
> I sent them about 6 emails to different email addresses I have for them and did not get a single response.
> Ended up going elsewhere.


Same here. Their website went flakey for a day last week, also.


----------



## MRFIXALL4

Midwest Playa I thank you for your quick response to my PM. I got a reply from Greatkeen but I am confused about the sizing. Does this frame size up on the small side? I ask because the geometry chart says a 56 = 549.1 toptube length and a 58 = 566.97. I have a Honfu FM015SPL and it's a 55 which seems a tad small. I can ride a 55 but I prefer a 56. My Merckx is a 56 but measures 57 on the toptube, which seems a tad long. So their chart really makes it had for me to choose. Can you provide some input?


----------



## kevosinn

MRFIXALL4 said:


> Midwest Playa I thank you for your quick response to my PM. I got a reply from Greatkeen but I am confused about the sizing. Does this frame size up on the small side? I ask because the geometry chart says a 56 = 549.1 toptube length and a 58 = 566.97. I have a Honfu FM015SPL and it's a 55 which seems a tad small. I can ride a 55 but I prefer a 56. My Merckx is a 56 but measures 57 on the toptube, which seems a tad long. So their chart really makes it had for me to choose. Can you provide some input?


ya im also worried about this. I ride a 58 on my scott addict and Im pretty sure that would be the same in the chinarello but I just want to make sure


----------



## FTR

Can you post up the geometry chart?
Is the figure you are reading the actual top tube or the effective top tube.
It is the effective that is important.


----------



## russd32

Just got my frame from Carbonzone from ebay and so far I'm impressed. The quality appears to be on par with what I've seen from everyone else's frames. Service was excellent. I ordered on the 16th, shipped on the 18th and was delivered to my house in IL on the 24th. Pretty damn quick! Can't wait to build it and get on the road


----------



## Chadwick890

Rainerhq said:


> I thought you looking for new RED?
> Gruppo will arrive 12.03.


Yes see this misunderstanding happened when you assumed things. Also the price is stupid high for a Australian when you can get it else where cheaper and shipped. I was waiting for it to "COME OUT" not pre order. Theres a difference KTHXBAII.

Also this is the cable run for the front derailer under the BB.


----------



## kanekikapu

Maybe a piece of derailleur housing between the two cable holes would solve the problem? Just a thought.



Chadwick890 said:


> Also this is the cable run for the front derailer under the BB.


----------



## Chadwick890

Midwest Playa said:


> Chad support your local bike shop and have them order you one bro.lol





kanekikapu said:


> Maybe a piece of derailleur housing between the two cable holes would solve the problem? Just a thought.


Thats what i intend to do, i was posting it for someone that asked about it a few pages back, and i didnt quote them in my reply. IF YOU HAD OF REAR A FEW PAGES BACK YOU ALSO WOULD OF GOT WHY I POSTED IT!!!!!!!!! Does no one read anymore or just look for the pretty pictures.


----------



## kanekikapu

Oh, sorry. just trying to help. Been reading the board for the past few months and can't remember every single post here. Guess I'll just shut up now.


----------



## Chadwick890

Roux-en-y said:


> I'm looking for an aero frame for triathlon. I've seen the fm 018 by Dengfu, but I haven´t seen many comments or reviews. Does anyone have any experience riding this one or other aero frames?


Have you actually read this forum and the 5.0? There a numerous people including myself that own one. This is also what i mean when i say do peopple read or look at pretty pictures. Cause its been answered numerous times. (Dont mean to single you out sorry)

I have no issues with my frame rides great super stiff and holds speed well. You cant go wrong buying this one. One being the frame not my bike


----------



## nagge

Why not just superglue a cable guide instead?


----------



## meezo

Chadwick890 said:


> Also this is the cable run for the front derailer under the BB.


Hmmm, this is interesting. Wonder how it looks on the original Venge.
Still can't wait for my FM098 to come.....


----------



## timsen

This is how you should install the cable's on the FM098 for the people who wanna know... ;-)


----------



## meezo

timsen said:


> This is how you should install the cable's on the FM098 for the people who wanna know... ;-)


Thanks :thumbsup: it appears my google skills isn't as good as i thought it was, or yours is just great, either that or i'm being blocked by our sys admins :mad2::mad2::mad2:


----------



## timsen

meezo said:


> Thanks :thumbsup: it appears my google skills isn't as good as i thought it was, or yours is just great, either that or i'm being blocked by our sys admins :mad2::mad2::mad2:



Mwah, Just been looking for a frame that is exactly the same as the FM098.
check out: www.mathot.lu it's the Prospekt.
In the pictures you can find it.


----------



## timsen

*Guys, *

I have some problems with my internal cable route. When I slide my cable into the route it stops at some point and I can't get it further. 
When I try from the other side it works fine. It's really strange.
Can somebody please help me?


----------



## mjdwyer23

I ran GORE Ride-On housing through all of the internal routing and all the way to the FD on my FM098:


----------



## timsen

But I can't get my cable true the route. Somewhere in the frame it get stuck.


----------



## jonoir

*three_seasons ????*

Howdy all 

Been wading through the wealth of info here and have narrowed my choice down to one of three frames from our Chinese frame making friends.

However one of the 3 is from an ebay seller called three_seasons the store is free cycling zone 

has anyone heard of them? bought from them? or have any otherwise useful advice. The frame looks great but I can't find anything on them as a seller. 

Thanks in advance for the help.

Jonoir


----------



## Vee

timsen said:


> But I can't get my cable true the route. Somewhere in the frame it get stuck.


Run a cable backwards the way you can get it through, and then run the proper cable through while slowly removing the backwards run cable. It should act as a guide to guide the cable through the path it is using.


----------



## TheBigYin

timsen said:


> *Guys, *
> 
> I have some problems with my internal cable route. When I slide my cable into the route it stops at some point and I can't get it further.
> When I try from the other side it works fine. It's really strange.
> Can somebody please help me?


Put a inner cable through from the "wrong end" until it comes out the far side. Connect up the "real" inner cable to the controls, thread on whatever outer cable it needs at that end, then solder the end of that inner cable tip to the end of the other cable you put through from the "wrong end". Allow to cool, smooth off any burr's and pull the "Wrong end" cable gently back out of the frame, drawing the correct cable in, and past any obstructions. When it's out, simply apply heat to the solder joint, and break the connection. Much easier to do than to type...



Edit: D'ohhh - didn't read what Vee had already typed - that'll teach me to press "refresh" before typing a reply :mad2:


----------



## andresmuro

*very impresses with flyxii so far*

I ordered this from them:

FLYXI

I also ordered a headset, seatpost, seat clamp, a set of spacers and 2 water bottle cages. Total order including shipping to the US was $420. I ordered on Monday. It was shipped yesterday. And the tracking number indicates that it left Honk Kong already. 

They responded to every question I asked immediately. As soon as I get package, I will report further. However, the speed with which they responded and shipped is quite impressive.


----------



## Kupkake

jonoir said:


> However one of the 3 is from an ebay seller called three_seasons the store is free cycling zone


For ebay, try out CarbonZone.
My frame is in the mail from them, as well as other who had good service with them when buying straight from ebay. (just a few posts up)

IIRC the frames come from Hongfu or Dengfu, the two more popular sellers. So they are the same style/quality to my knowledge, as mines still in shipping, ordered prob 5 days ago. Shipped 2 days after payment, which is usual as they wait for the paypal payment to clear. 

EMS tracking. Pretty standard stuff from CarbonZone.
They also were pretty quick with questions I had. What they list on Ebay, from what I can tell, they have in-stock. Some of the other sellers have a 2-4week lead-time to build the frames, CarbonZone seems to only sell what its able to ship right away. As my order shipped 2 days right after payment. On a Saturday none the less.


----------



## jonoir

Kupkake said:


> For ebay, try out CarbonZone.
> My frame is in the mail from them, as well as other who had good service with them when buying straight from ebay. (just a few posts up)
> 
> IIRC the frames come from Hongfu or Dengfu, the two more popular sellers. So they are the same style/quality to my knowledge, as mines still in shipping, ordered prob 5 days ago. Shipped 2 days after payment, which is usual as they wait for the paypal payment to clear.
> 
> EMS tracking. Pretty standard stuff from CarbonZone.
> They also were pretty quick with questions I had. What they list on Ebay, from what I can tell, they have in-stock. Some of the other sellers have a 2-4week lead-time to build the frames, CarbonZone seems to only sell what its able to ship right away. As my order shipped 2 days right after payment. On a Saturday none the less.


Thanks for the info Kupkake (that sounds a bit odd). 
I've read nothing but good things about carbon zone but they don't have any of the frames I like listed on ebay. I was hoping for something with slightly more dramatic styling. 
Hope yours is with you soon. What did you order out of interest>?


----------



## ms6073

Midwest Playa said:


> The quality on that looks Crappy Sorry
> Heres mine


 Based on the relatively shallow angle the deraileur cables are taking as they exit the downtube as well as the acute angle the front deraileur cable takes as it enters the bottom bracket shell, I think it would be a good idea to run a lined cable set like the Gore Ride On Sealed Low Friction deraileur cables. My concern is that the bare cables running across the carbon and very quickly you will see indentations in the carbon where the cables have 'sawed' through the material. If nothing else, you should consider running cable liner into the holes where the cables exit the downtube and through the cable guides with the front deraileur cable running all the way past the point where it exits the top of the bottom bracket shell.


----------



## Vee

jonoir said:


> Thanks for the info Kupkake (that sounds a bit odd).
> I've read nothing but good things about carbon zone but they don't have any of the frames I like listed on ebay. I was hoping for something with slightly more dramatic styling.
> Hope yours is with you soon. What did you order out of interest>?


Sure they do. carbonzone | eBay


----------



## Kupkake

jonoir said:


> What did you order out of interest>?


I ordered a 52cm FM028 (RB002 as they list it) Frame and Fork.
3k matt finish, English bb. The geo is close to my 52cm allez, which my gf is going to get.

I didn't get a headset, but I'm going to get a FSA CF-40, seems to be the common headset for ppl that don't get one with the frame. 

I would have just gone with a Neco headset, but she didn't have any. Prob bc the packages they sell are already pre-packaged or what not. Also, they do offer fully painted setups, im not sure about the lead-time with that, I image its more, but might not be if they are only selling certain colors/designs. 

Also, from what i'v seen on the 3k finish they fade black over the carbon joints which leaves a much cleaner appearance then overlapping carbon weave. 








see the bottom bracket and rear dropouts - looks nice to me. :thumbsup:

Edit: I plan to take it to a vinyl or sign shop and see if they can cut me some say 30x6 strips of light blue or lime green, then trim them up and do the inside of the chainstays or fork legs. Hairdryer, straight edge and some beers.. prob take a while to get this right


----------



## MammothSlacker

Midwest Playa said:


> We all did a group buy 6 frames total. If you are really interested PM me, I hate to advertized here I dont want these MOFOS thinking I am a dealer.LOL And yes for the record I am not associated with the manufacturer I just jumped on what I think is a really good deal. Matte Black was my first choice but my SL3 Tarmac is already Matte Black thats why I went with the white and red. This thing looks wicked. In fact they are about to do the latest 2012 black Dogma seee pics. I could have ordered it at the time but they were still in the pre production process asn said it will take 14 days..
> 
> I would enquire about this one if I were you. :thumbsup:


Midwest, thanks very much for the info. I caught the link below and will look into it. 
Cheers,


----------



## ivavi

Does anyone have experience buying from any suppliers other than DengFu, Hongfu, Miracle or Arteck? I don't especially like any of their designs, and would like to see some other options. 

I am thinking of buying from ICAN SPORTS EQUIPMENT CO LTD. I like their Scott Foil clone . But I asked if they would accept payment through escrow, and they say they will only take paypal. I know paypal gives you a 45 day window to open a dispute, but do you think it's a bad sign that they won't take escrow? Or is that normal with these types of things?

PS: I apologize in advance if this is covered in some comment buried in one of the past 5 threads on this topic. I've looked through them and tried searching for ICAN, but haven't found anything relevant. Any insights anyone has would be appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## zender

Chadwick890 said:


> Have you actually read this forum and the 5.0? There a numerous people including myself that own one. This is also what i mean when i say do peopple read or look at pretty pictures. Cause its been answered numerous times. (Dont mean to single you out sorry)
> 
> I have no issues with my frame rides great super stiff and holds speed well. You cant go wrong buying this one. One being the frame not my bike


I've got one of these too although I switched to 88mm clinchers front and back.

Upsides:
Bargain price
Great cable routing
Two position seatpost allows you to set it up with regular road geometry although you'll be piling on a bunch of spacers up front.

Downsides:
Heavy, but it's cheap right?
I am not too happy with the seat-clamp design on their seatposts (this goes for 3 different bikes from carbonzone/dengfu). It's clunky, heavy and doesn't hold well. 
Rear brake is a hassle. Best solution is a $250 Simkins egg brake.


----------



## ivavi

Hi all, 
Mismatched forks and sloppy workmanship are bad, but my biggest concern with buying direct from China is that I will send them money and never get anything in return. It doesn't look like that has happened to anyone on this thread, but I am nervous anyway. So I have two questions and would love it if someone could provide any insight on them:

1) does anyone know any trustworthy suppliers aside from Hongfu, Dengfu, Arteck, and Miracle? I don't really like any of their designs and would love some more options. 

2) I'm thinking of buying the Scott foil clone from iCan. (aka Shenzhen Ican Sports Equipment Co., Ltd). But I asked them to accept payment through escrow.com and they said they only accept paypal or bank transfers to HSBC Hong Kong. I know that paypal has a 45 day window to open a dispute if you get scammed, but do you think it's a bad sign that they wont take escrow? Or is this normal for buying from China? Does anyone have any experience with Ican, or know anything about them? 

Thank you very much for any insight!
Avi


----------



## Kupkake

Yay! Frame just rolled into NY!
Maybe ill get it this week @ work! Super Excited! An wow - that took under a week to get to the USA. 








Final Destination is NJ - curious tho, now it has to pass thru customs?


----------



## ivavi

Kupcake: That's awesome. Where did you buy from? Do you know any other trustworthy vendors aside from Hongfu, Dengfu, Miracle or Arteck?
how did you pay them? Do you feel comfortable sending money through paypal, as opposed to using escrow.com?


----------



## Roux-en-y

Chadwick890 said:


> Have you actually read this forum and the 5.0? There a numerous people including myself that own one. This is also what i mean when i say do peopple read or look at pretty pictures. Cause its been answered numerous times. (Dont mean to single you out sorry)
> 
> I have no issues with my frame rides great super stiff and holds speed well. You cant go wrong buying this one. One being the frame not my bike


First of all, I did go through this forum and a lot of the pages in the 5.0. I haven´t seen a lot of reviews on the riding experience oh the different designs TT frames(although a few nice pictures ;-))

Second, I know that some of you have been following these threads since the beginning, but you got to admit that thoroughly reading all these pages to catch up, take some time.

Thirdly, why does so many people use their energy being so aggressive, when it's easier just being polite and try to answer the question. Just accept that not everyones been following this since day 1. 

Don´t mean to single you out, sorry ;-) but this goes for a lot of people. 


Thanks anyway


----------



## Hiro11

ivavi said:


> Does anyone have experience buying from any suppliers other than DengFu, Hongfu, Miracle or Arteck? I don't especially like any of their designs, and would like to see some other options.


I would stick with one of those vendors. If nothing else, at least they're relatively "known quanitites" on this forum. One thing to keep in mind is that all of these vendors typically have a much more vast inventory than what you see on their websites. It doens't help that their websites are hot messes. Email them and ask for catalogs. For example, Miracle Trade does sell the Foil copy (I should know, I have one, it's the MC053).

Also, ICAN is fine, many people here have used them with success.

PayPal seems typical as well. These are small companies and make most everything to order. They cater to much larger orders in general and slip these one-offs into the production schedule where possible. Any of these vendors are pretty reputable, though. I'd say the risk of getting straight-up ripped off is very slim.


----------



## Kupkake

ivavi said:


> Kupcake: That's awesome. Where did you buy from? Do you know any other trustworthy vendors aside from Hongfu, Dengfu, Miracle or Arteck?
> how did you pay them? Do you feel comfortable sending money through paypal, as opposed to using escrow.com?


I got mine straight off eBay from CarbonZone, used 'Buy-it-Now' (solid reviews).
I used the eBay 'contact-seller' method on eBay to contact them about any questions I had. Reply took a day or two avg. pretty standard with anyone.
Paid via paypal. As usual took 2 days for the payment to clear. $500USD (includes shipping of $80 for Frame & Fork)
After payment cleared I got my EMS tracking from CarbonZone from them posting it to eBay.
5 Days later (including weekend) - Arrived in NY. It could take longer to get from NY to NJ then it did with EMS from China to USA. 

Not to shabby IMO :thumbsup:

CarbonZone im almost certain sources the frames from DengFu or Hongfu I dunno which one tho. As I said before, I do believe they only sell what they have on-hand. I could be wrong but that how they made it sound when talking with them.


----------



## vladvm

notice how the chinarello DOGMA's last year were the 2008-2010 Prince (ver 1.0 to 4.0 thread)? Could be because Pinarello dumped the Prince Line and there's a surplus of unsold molds....

now the current chinarello DOGMA's were the 2010 Dogma's? Could be because Pinarello has a Dogma 2 line and lots of surplus old DOGMA molds...

the trend will continue...


----------



## mrcreosote

*FM058 Group Buy*

since my thread in the 'Cyclocross' forum got deleted.....

VeloBuild.com - Chinese Carbon Fiber Bicycle Frames for Road, Mountain, Cycle Cross and Time Trial information - FM058 Group buy

i think we only need one more to make quota


----------



## persondude27

ivavi said:


> Hi all,
> Mismatched forks and sloppy workmanship are bad, but my biggest concern with buying direct from China is that I will send them money and never get anything in return. It doesn't look like that has happened to anyone on this thread, but I am nervous anyway. So I have two questions and would love it if someone could provide any insight on them:
> 
> 1) does anyone know any trustworthy suppliers aside from Hongfu, Dengfu, Arteck, and Miracle? I don't really like any of their designs and would love some more options.
> 
> 2) I'm thinking of buying the Scott foil clone from iCan. (aka Shenzhen Ican Sports Equipment Co., Ltd). But I asked them to accept payment through escrow.com and they said they only accept paypal or bank transfers to HSBC Hong Kong. I know that paypal has a 45 day window to open a dispute if you get scammed, but do you think it's a bad sign that they wont take escrow? Or is this normal for buying from China? Does anyone have any experience with Ican, or know anything about them?
> 
> Thank you very much for any insight!
> Avi


Easy there. Three posts in an hour about the same thing is a good way to get annoying. Not everyone camps on these forums all the time... and those who do are grumpy.

1) There are tons of suppliers. Very few people have had sketchy experiences with these people. Hongfu and Dengfu are the big ones (though Dengfu has been having some issues lately). There is also Great Keen, Miracle, Ican, Fly Xii. If you go through ebay, check carbon_zone, e_baygoods, and such.

2) It's not that they won't take escrow, it's that they won't take escrow.com. Why would you use escrow.com? AliExpress has its own escrow built in, and paypal offers some protection. Buy from the same seller as someone else (look through these forums). Nearly everyone posts what supplier they used and how much it cost them.

Search for your Foil clone. I believe it is called the AC053 or the MC053. There are probably ten on this board so far, and I think most people are happy with it.


----------



## PaxRomana

I think the correct term for a fake Colnago is a "Clonago".

They do make the monocoque ones, but not the lugged. They try it occasionally, but the lugs are fake on the ones I've seen.


----------



## apachesix

*ICAN AC-053 "Faux-al" Arrival*

My AC-053 arrived today. 2 weeks for shipping from China to US to Peru (APO). No issues with nicks, a couple spots that the tape on the protective wrap left some residue but it came right off. Paint came out pretty well. Now to start getting it together although still waiting for a couple other parts to get shipped in.

Interesting side note, while I bought from ICAN and the shipping label was from them, the tape on the box had Miracle handwritten on it and almost every part had a piece of masking tape or a sticker with Miracle and the order # on it.



ivavi said:


> Does anyone have experience buying from any suppliers other than DengFu, Hongfu, Miracle or Arteck?
> I am thinking of buying from ICAN SPORTS EQUIPMENT CO LTD. I like their Scott Foil clone .
> 
> 
> 
> ivavi - I had no problems with ICAN, and just paid a deposit until it was ready to ship and they sent pics.
Click to expand...


----------



## ivavi

Kupcake, Thank you very much for your info. And again, congrats on the upcoming new bike. I hope to be in your shoes soon. 
Midwest, I'm completely new to this online forum thing and thought my post had gotten lost in the noise. Speaking as a newbee, it really is odd how grumpy you guys all are. Most of the posts seem more geared towards arguing and criticizing eachother than sharing useful information. But I like it that at least your criticism of me was promptly followed by some very useful info. That's exactly what I'm here for, so thank you very much for that! I'd like to think that if we all were out on a ride together we would get along just fine. The internet just seems to bring out the worst in people. 
Anyway, thanks again!


----------



## vrgz26_b

I'm new here. I've back read through all the 13pages and it was very informative. With the favorable reviews of the carbon frame/fork made in China, I think I can consider, with confidence, a purchase soon.

Thank you and have fun riding!


----------



## Bridgey

ivavi said:


> Kupcake, Thank you very much for your info. And again, congrats on the upcoming new bike. I hope to be in your shoes soon.
> Midwest, I'm completely new to this online forum thing and thought my post had gotten lost in the noise. Speaking as a newbee, it really is odd how grumpy you guys all are. Most of the posts seem more geared towards arguing and criticizing eachother than sharing useful information. But I like it that at least your criticism of me was promptly followed by some very useful info. That's exactly what I'm here for, so thank you very much for that! I'd like to think that if we all were out on a ride together we would get along just fine. The internet just seems to bring out the worst in people.
> Anyway, thanks again!


Don't be so nice to them. If they get grumpy, critical, etc then it's them that need to change and learn a little tolerance. We should be welcoming of newbees. The more people we get online the better it will be. You might be tomorrow's expert. I don't think anyone should be expected to sift through more than 3 or 4 pages back. Welcome anyways. It's quite an exciting section of the forum. I've learnt heaps.


----------



## jonoir

OK then I think I've made my choice (thanks for the info by the way Kupkake)

Hongfu FM039 with isp in Matte 3k (i'm leaving myself the option of Venge'ing it at a later date)
Houngfu Headset x1

Just a couple of questions before I push the button

FRONT DERAILEUR - is it braze on or clamp? Is the fitting attached if it's braze? or what size clamp if it's clamp?

Is there anything else I should know/be buying or be asking before I put the order in?
I have read that some people have ordered 2 headsets?? Is this a necessity?? 

Thanks in advance for the assistance.


----------



## jonoir

Midwest Playa said:


> Clamp would be the prefered choice imo unless they dont have the same issue with mine. Thanks to my awesome mechanic over here, he got a hold of a FD hanger from a Trek bike and replaced the weak FD hanger and was able to make it work. If you look at the piece on my hand notice how thin that black piece and also the big hole to adjust the FD up and down made it even more weaker. in comparison the the one on the bike now. The hanger wraps around the front derailleur mount for additional stability.See Pics This is very critical issue that I need to share with you because when I first took the bike for a test ride, it will not shift to the big ring.so when my mechanic puts it on the bike rack to make the adjustment it was shifting fine. Thats when he determined when the chain was under tension the FD was flexing because of the hanger. It could not handle 190 lbs of load.lol.. I have top of the line components because one thing I can't stand is delayed shifting. I mentioned this isue in the earlier threads in case you missed it.and I wanted to give you more info in detail.
> 
> Bottom line is its a simple fix and can be corrected either with the manufacturer or worst case scenerio you can just tell you local mechanic to do the same look for a stronger hanger and replaced the flimsy one. The cost is very minimal because of my relationship with my mechanic who works on all my bikes he didnt even charge me, He had an extra part laying around. He showed appreciation for the pizza's that I get delivered at his shop for him and his peeps when ever he works on my bike. You are still thousands of dollars ahead with the cost to replace that part.:thumbsup:


It was your problem that actually made me ask this question - that and the fact I can't see anything on the images of the fm039 that resembles an FD hanger also I wasn't sure if the seat tube was round thus making it impossible to fit a clamp??

Didn't you buy yours from Greatkeen anyway or do you think this is a problem across the manufacturers?


----------



## pschmidt

Anybody who has ordered from HongFu and paid via PayPal, could you verify Jenny's paypal address as ayi998 at 126 .com? 

I got burned by DengFu's "cheater" a while back and want to make damn sure it doesn't happen again.


----------



## Kupkake

*EDIT*
TDRL; Frame arrived in NY - then was 'Missent' by USPS - few hrs later It Arrived at my office in NJ 

So my frame Arrived! 
USPS did have a small hic-up. They sent it to the wrong post-office for sorting, tho it all was worked out with-in a few hours. 

My CarbonZone 52CM FM028 (RB002) is gorgeous! 
I'll post up pics when I'm home from work. 

Ordered from CarbonZone on Ebay Feb 22nd.
Shipped Feb 24th
Delivered March 1st

Ironic that my frame got from China to my Office faster then products ordered from large eCommerce sites shipped from within the US would be able to.


----------



## ptsbike55

I had the same thing. For some reason mine went from NY to Chattanooga. It said attempted delivery, but the USPS told me that it was just going through another step in the delivery process. I got mine a few days later. Overall delivery on my frame took about 3 weeks. Less than a week from China to JFK, and about 2-1/2 weeks to get from NY to my address.


----------



## Commesso_dk

*Commesso frame*



andresmuro said:


> I ordered this from them:
> 
> FLYXI
> 
> I also ordered a headset, seatpost, seat clamp, a set of spacers and 2 water bottle cages. Total order including shipping to the US was $420. I ordered on Monday. It was shipped yesterday. And the tracking number indicates that it left Honk Kong already.
> 
> They responded to every question I asked immediately. As soon as I get package, I will report further. However, the speed with which they responded and shipped is quite impressive.


Same framest as mine. Fantastic bike!:


----------



## amenzies

Midwest Playa,

I have the FD hanger that came with the frame and shifting is fine in the big ring, ok the hanger is a bit flexy but no changing issue, I do however have problems with the seat post slipping down, it was a tight fit in the frame went out for my first run on the bike today and the post kept slipping, I tried to tighten it but on the last try I stripped the threads in the clamp was only using a small alan key, have you had any issue with the post slipping.

Bike rides great though very stiff, feels like when you turn the cranks they are directly connected to the rear wheel, out of the saddle climbing is the best I have experienced on a bike so far, it is very responsive in the turns as well, I am well chufffed apart from the seat clamp

Alan




Midwest Playa said:


> Clamp would be the prefered choice imo unless they dont have the same issue with mine. Thanks to my awesome mechanic over here, he got a hold of a FD hanger from a Trek bike and replaced the weak FD hanger and was able to make it work. If you look at the piece on my hand notice how thin that black piece and also the big hole to adjust the FD up and down made it even more weaker. in comparison the the one on the bike now. The hanger wraps around the front derailleur mount for additional stability.See Pics This is very critical issue that I need to share with you because when I first took the bike for a test ride, it will not shift to the big ring.so when my mechanic puts it on the bike rack to make the adjustment it was shifting fine. Thats when he determined when the chain was under tension the FD was flexing because of the hanger. It could not handle 190 lbs of load.lol.. I have top of the line components because one thing I can't stand is delayed shifting. I mentioned this isue in the earlier threads in case you missed it.and I wanted to give you more info in detail.
> 
> Bottom line is its a simple fix and can be corrected either with the manufacturer or worst case scenerio you can just tell you local mechanic to do the same look for a stronger hanger and replaced the flimsy one. The cost is very minimal because of my relationship with my mechanic who works on all my bikes he didnt even charge me, He had an extra part laying around. He showed appreciation for the pizza's that I get delivered at his shop for him and his peeps when ever he works on my bike. You are still thousands of dollars ahead with the cost to replace that part.:thumbsup:


----------



## Kupkake

Commesso_dk said:


> Same framest as mine. Fantastic bike!:


Looks great! Charcoal decals or black? Look good regardless!


----------



## ms6073

Having kept up with both the 5.0 and now the 6.0 thread, I note serveral have had questions about but I do not recall anyone having answers about the new Dengfu FM029? So has anyone ordered or at least have more information on this frame? I note that the FM029 is not (yet) listed on the Dengfu Bikes' website but is listed on there Alibaba page and have sent several e-mails to the address listed on the Dengfu Bike site but have yet to get a reply.


----------



## the mayor

ms6073 said:


> Having kept up with both the 5.0 and now the 6.0 thread, I note serveral have had questions about but I do not recall anyone having answers about the new Dengfu FM029? So has anyone ordered or at least have more information on this frame? I note that the FM029 is not (yet) listed on the Dengfu Bikes' website but is listed on there Alibaba page and have sent several e-mails to the address listed on the Dengfu Bike site but have yet to get a reply.


Both myself and FTR have sent multiple emails to DengFu and haven't heard anything back.
another poster here...a few pages back...mentioned Tony @ Dengfu had his email hacked??
I ended up ordering from an Ebay store


----------



## williamcaulfield

I asked carbonzone about the fm029 and they didn't have any, ordered a standard rb002 instead. Mina from dengfu said it was $30 extra over the fm028 last time i enquired.


----------



## ms6073

the mayor said:


> I ended up ordering from an Ebay store


You were able to order an FM029 from an Ebay store - mind sharing which store?


----------



## Kupkake

williamcaulfield said:


> I asked carbonzone about the fm029 and they didn't have any, ordered a standard rb002 instead. Mina from dengfu said it was $30 extra over the fm028 last time i enquired.


Yeah, I believe Joyce only sells what they stock. odds are since the FM029 is still kind of new it won't be available from them yet. 

On the other hand - my RB002 showed up today - It is awesome!!


----------



## vladvm

Carbon fiber bike - YouTube


----------



## gte534j

*How to fix creaking/slipping seat post in Scott Foil MC-053 Miracle Bike seat post*

So I had this horrible creaking sound coming from the seat post area in my Scott Foil MC-053 Miracle Bike seat post. I kept tightening down the screw to expand the wedge to tighten the seat post but I would tighten the screw as much as possible and there was still creaking in the seat post. I would notice that the top part of the seat post wedge would come out of the frame if I was to rock the seat forward/backwards. I finally figured out that I was bottoming out the wedge and it would not expand far enough to wedge the seat into place. I have attached a drawing. 
It’s a very simple fix. Just cut a small (maybe 1/16” thick x ¼” wide x 1” tall) piece of plastic or metal and place it as shown between the frame and the metal shim. This will take up some of the slack space and then the screw can be tightened enough so the wedge will expand enough to tighten the seat post into place. You will notice that there is progressively more resistance as you tighten this screw. If you bottom out the screw you will notice that its too hard to tighten and you are almost stripping the hex head out of the socket. Hope this helps.

All sizes | Scott Foil MC053 seat-post-wedge-fix | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


----------



## the mayor

ms6073 said:


> You were able to order an FM029 from an Ebay store - mind sharing which store?


No...I bought a 028 after not hearing back from DF for a few weeks.


----------



## Chadwick890

Anyone having issues with emailing Dengfu. Try contacting them through SKYPE It works for me


----------



## FTR

Chadwick890 said:


> Anyone having issues with emailing Dengfu. Try contacting them through SKYPE It works for me


I used their alibaba contact message thing.
Got responses there until I asked whether they had received my emails.
They then suddenly went missing.


----------



## gte534j

when i first installed the post i had the creaking sound, then i used the carbon paste. It still did not fix it. Thats when i realized that i needed to shim the wedge in the frame a bit. I did that and used carbon paste and now it works great. For me i had to pay attention that i had enough shims in there so that i would not bottom out the bolt.


----------



## Hiro11

gte534j said:


> So I had this horrible creaking sound coming from the seat post area in my Scott Foil MC-053 Miracle Bike seat post. I kept tightening down the screw to expand the wedge to tighten the seat post but I would tighten the screw as much as possible and there was still creaking in the seat post. I would notice that the top part of the seat post wedge would come out of the frame if I was to rock the seat forward/backwards. I finally figured out that I was bottoming out the wedge and it would not expand far enough to wedge the seat into place. I have attached a drawing.
> It’s a very simple fix. Just cut a small (maybe 1/16” thick x ¼” wide x 1” tall) piece of plastic or metal and place it as shown between the frame and the metal shim. This will take up some of the slack space and then the screw can be tightened enough so the wedge will expand enough to tighten the seat post into place. You will notice that there is progressively more resistance as you tighten this screw. If you bottom out the screw you will notice that its too hard to tighten and you are almost stripping the hex head out of the socket. Hope this helps.
> 
> All sizes | Scott Foil MC053 seat-post-wedge-fix | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


Hmm. I haven't had this problem with my frame. Good to know in case it occurs.


----------



## gte534j

@Hiro11- Glad you did not have the same problem. Im wondering if its an issue with just the 56cm frames. I waited for quite a while for them to come in stock, so im not sure if its just that size or if its a manufacturing variance and i just got one a bit out of spec. Eitherway, i wanted to post the info in case someone else has this issue b/c its a very simple fix.


----------



## rdt

*Contact with Great Keen...*

I sent an email a couple days ago to Ms Hu via the address at the website at Great Keen asking for info and pricing for the rfm201 frame. As of tonight i havent heard anything back yet. For those who have dealt with GK, 

1. What has been the typical response time to your emails and questions? 

2. Who is the person you have worked with? What is their contact information?

I want to be patient but i also want to connect with the right person.

Thanks
Bob


----------



## beston

I ordered a handlebar / stem from Great Keen.

The initial response time was quick on the order of a couple of hours. Post-order, I emailed them 7 days after I placed the order and they got back to me in 3 days to let me know that the bars had shipped. 

I dealt with Ms. Hu
[email protected]


----------



## mzekew

ms6073 said:


> Having kept up with both the 5.0 and now the 6.0 thread, I note serveral have had questions about but I do not recall anyone having answers about the new Dengfu FM029? So has anyone ordered or at least have more information on this frame? I note that the link removed is not (yet) listed on the link removed website but is listed on there Alibaba page and have sent several e-mails to the address listed on the Dengfu Bike site but have yet to get a reply.


I ordered an FM029 from Deng Fu Feb 23rd. It shipped on the 25th and arrived in NC (East Coast US) today. I missed the postal service today, so will have to pick it up tomorrow.

My understanding is the 029 is the exact same frame/geometry as the 028 only with full internal routing. I originally inquired about the 028 with BSA BB but they were out of stock in the size 60 frame with no more production scheduled in the near future (or at all?). As mentioned previously, the 029 model was $30 more... but readily available. I also bought the carbon seatpost and headset. Frame/fork/seatpost/headset/shipping/paypal surcharge was $575USD total.


----------



## kweenam

rdt said:


> I sent an email a couple days ago to Ms Hu via the address at the website at Great Keen asking for info and pricing for the rfm201 frame. As of tonight i havent heard anything back yet. For those who have dealt with GK,
> 
> 1. What has been the typical response time to your emails and questions?
> 
> 2. Who is the person you have worked with? What is their contact information?
> 
> I want to be patient but i also want to connect with the right person.
> 
> Thanks
> Bob


Friend,

Try this email : [email protected]

mostly I contact them by this email.


----------



## FTR

Commesso_dk said:


> Same framest as mine. Fantastic bike!:


Looks much better with the fork you have vs the one on their website.
Very solid and fast looking bike.


----------



## sandman77

rdt said:


> I sent an email a couple days ago to Ms Hu via the address at the website at Great Keen asking for info and pricing for the rfm201 frame. As of tonight i havent heard anything back yet. For those who have dealt with GK,
> 
> 1. What has been the typical response time to your emails and questions?
> 
> 2. Who is the person you have worked with? What is their contact information?
> 
> I want to be patient but i also want to connect with the right person.
> 
> Thanks
> Bob


Hi, I am new around here but I am looking for a new frame set and fancy the rfm201 from greatkeenbike

I got a reply from them and the price quoted was $520 for the frame set (painted), $25 for the headset and $80 shipping (to the UK). They also add 4% for using PayPal. Is this the standard price or can it be had cheaper?


----------



## pandoro

timsen said:


> BENG!! NEW ARRIVAL!


bella bella...ok!!!


----------



## elviento2

Just wait till you see the wide seatstays!!! Reminds me of the parashute behind the space shuttle. 



Bridgey said:


> What aero frame is that one. Which bike was it cloned after. Looks really fast.


----------



## amenzies

The post is a really tight fit have to put my knee on the top tube and pull with both hands to get it back up, have ordered a couple of clamps and used a jubilee clip on the old one, had a loook on the pinarello forums and guess what they have problems with slipping seat posts as well.

alan



Midwest Playa said:


> Sup Alan
> 
> My seat post is fine bro no issues, in fact the one on the black naked carbon that I was putting together, I had to get 400 grit sand paper and sanded it down using with water because there was too much lacquer and it wouldnt fit. I think I addressed this issue in the earlier threads.
> 
> You can contact the seller and tell them to send you another one.
> 
> Thanks


----------



## timsen

Guys, 

Does somebody has bought an Mountain bike frame yet? Now I bought my first carbon racer I am thinking about replacing my mountain bike frame. 
*
Are the China mtb frames strong enough for the forest?*


----------



## rdt

*Update re: Greatkeen Bike Contact...*

Late last night, after posting here, I searched my email folders and discovered the email I thought I sent couple days ago was still sitting in my draft folder! Duh...

What prompted the search through my email folders was the response from beston who suggested the email at "[email protected]" It looked different from what I remembered and thought I had the wrong address, thus explaining no response.

So I sent it again at 11:08pm to Ms Hu at two addresses - "[email protected]" and "[email protected]"

Much to my surprise, she responded within an hour! So the lesson is obvious - make sure your email actually gets sent to the correct address. Also, you can likely expect a very quick reply.

In her response, she stated that the fd bracket is being replaced with a stronger piece to correct the issue that Midwest Player had to resolve on his bike. Also, she said lead time for painting would be 20-25 days.

Her correct email is "[email protected]" and it is identified on there contact link at their website. She stated there have been problems with the email address "[email protected]" and it is not working.

HTH for others. Thanks to those who have provided clues to get this resolved.


----------



## the mayor

timsen said:


> Guys,
> 
> Does somebody has bought an Mountain bike frame yet? Now I bought my first carbon racer I am thinking about replacing my mountain bike frame.
> *
> Are the China mtb frames strong enough for the forest?*


Yes....go over to MTBR and there is a big thread on them.


----------



## rdt

Anyone have any experience with these guys or know anything about them?

PinarelloChina.com | Buy Pinarello Carbon Bike Frame from China, OEM Carbon Bike Frame


----------



## rdt

*Good point....*



Midwest Playa said:


> They Carry exact the same products as Great Keen, I have no dealings with this company and when ever I see a website like this the first thing I look for is contac info: ????? Dont see it.


...no contact information is a red flag. Also the pricing is high... $650gb is about $950us if i did the exchange rate correctly...


----------



## rdt

*Same Pricing...*



sandman77 said:


> Hi, I am new around here but I am looking for a new frame set and fancy the rfm201 from greatkeenbike
> 
> I got a reply from them and the price quoted was $520 for the frame set (painted), $25 for the headset and $80 shipping (to the UK). They also add 4% for using PayPal. Is this the standard price or can it be had cheaper?


These are the same numbers I got from Ms Hu but shipping to US was $85. How negotiable are these prices? Anyone have any experience with lower pricing? 

Wondering...


----------



## zigmeister

gte534j said:


> when i first installed the post i had the creaking sound, then i used the carbon paste. It still did not fix it. Thats when i realized that i needed to shim the wedge in the frame a bit. I did that and used carbon paste and now it works great. For me i had to pay attention that i had enough shims in there so that i would not bottom out the bolt.


Good info, thanks for posting. My frame is on the way. Just another thing to have handy as information in case others have this same issue.


----------



## powking12

pschmidt said:


> Anybody who has ordered from HongFu and paid via PayPal, could you verify Jenny's paypal address as ayi998 at 126 .com?
> 
> I got burned by DengFu's "cheater" a while back and want to make damn sure it doesn't happen again.



The address I've been using to correspond with Jenny is hongfubikesAT126.com

I should be picking up my FM015 in matte UD tonight. 50mm gloss UD wheels will be coming in the middle of March after a production mistake that they caught.


----------



## zigmeister

ivavi said:


> Does anyone have experience buying from any suppliers other than DengFu, Hongfu, Miracle or Arteck? I don't especially like any of their designs, and would like to see some other options.
> 
> I am thinking of buying from ICAN SPORTS EQUIPMENT CO LTD. I like their Scott Foil clone . But I asked if they would accept payment through escrow, and they say they will only take paypal. I know paypal gives you a 45 day window to open a dispute, but do you think it's a bad sign that they won't take escrow? Or is that normal with these types of things?
> 
> PS: I apologize in advance if this is covered in some comment buried in one of the past 5 threads on this topic. I've looked through them and tried searching for ICAN, but haven't found anything relevant. Any insights anyone has would be appreciated. Thanks!


To mention again what a few others mentioned, most use Paypal. Have had no issues. They are a verified account and if something were to go wrong, you should be able to get your money back, in theory anyway.

Also, as another posted mentioned, they purchased the AC053 from ICANN, all over the box/markings were Miracle Trade. So, you might as well just go right to Miracle Trade. I have one on order from them, besides slow communications/mis-communications, all has gone well so far and I received photos, and am awaiting a tracking number.

Most have a good reputation mentioned in this thread, you likely don't have much to worry about.


----------



## FTR

zigmeister said:


> To mention again what a few others mentioned, most use Paypal. Have had no issues. They are a verified account and if something were to go wrong, you should be able to get your money back, in theory anyway.
> 
> Also, as another posted mentioned, they purchased the AC053 from ICANN, all over the box/markings were Miracle Trade. So, you might as well just go right to Miracle Trade. I have one on order from them, besides slow communications/mis-communications, all has gone well so far and I received photos, and am awaiting a tracking number.
> 
> Most have a good reputation mentioned in this thread, you likely don't have much to worry about.


Another thing to keep in mind is that not all sellers have all weave variants.
Maybe not a big deal for some but I was looking for 3K or UD for a MTB frame and fork I ordered recently.
Started talking with Miracle but they could only offer 12K for the fork and 3K for the frame. In the end I ended up sourcing UD for frame and fork via Jane at Hongfu. She was also able to provide me with a 3K and a 12K road fork.


----------



## the mayor

rdt said:


> ...no contact information is a red flag. Also the pricing is high... $650gb is about $950us if i did the exchange rate correctly...


Agree
I got the hots for the orange dogma.....until I did the math...and then saw no contact info.
I do want that orange dogma in the window....the one with the wagily tail....


----------



## MRFIXALL4

I contacted Ms. Hu twice and each time I got a reply back the next morning. I got the same pricing as stated above, $520 for the components $25 for paint $85 for SH $25.50 for the PayPal fees. I didn't want paint so I left out the $25 and told them no paint. I hope that's not a problem because I never got an answer about that. I also hope that since they don't have to paint it it will speed up delivery time. The payment went through but I haven't heard from them since which is typical every time I've ordered from China. Just have to sit back and be patient.


----------



## Chadwick890

MRFIXALL4 said:


> I contacted Ms. Hu twice and each time I got a reply back the next morning. I got the same pricing as stated above, $520 for the components $25 for paint $85 for SH $25.50 for the PayPal fees. I didn't want paint so I left out the $25 and told them no paint. I hope that's not a problem because I never got an answer about that. I also hope that since they don't have to paint it it will speed up delivery time. The payment went through but I haven't heard from them since which is typical every time I've ordered from China. Just have to sit back and be patient.


Or send them an email every hour on the hour until they cave and contact you  Or skype them which ever takes your fancy.


----------



## boulder74

Does anyone know of a frame set that is close in geo to a Roubaix or Synapse?

Thanks


----------



## turboferret

First post here!

I found this thread while looking for info on a TT frame, seeing how people had found them after buying from eBay and the like. Fantastic threads, have read most of the 4 and 5, and verified pretty much everything I was looking to find out 

Unfortunately I've also bought myself a matt black Chinarello frame like the one Midwest Playa has been building up to replace my ageing Trek OCLV, a few hundred dollars I wasn't planning on spending, but it looks gorgeous!

Cheers, Rich


----------



## Mankul

Midwest Playa, can you take a close up pic of your seatpost clamp? I've got issues with the clamp. Can't seem to adjust the saddle angle comfortably. They should change the clamp design. You can't adjust the saddle angle without removing the saddle...


----------



## CrisGC

*China-sourced Di2 specific frame*

Anyone ordered or have information regarding China-direct sourced Di2 specific frameset? I know there is a Di2 option for the FM757 frameset but I haven't seen any picture of it.


----------



## amenzies

Mankul,

I had the same issue but changed to a Specialized Toupe and can now adjust through the centre cut out

Alan



Mankul said:


> Midwest Playa, can you take a close up pic of your seatpost clamp? I've got issues with the clamp. Can't seem to adjust the saddle angle comfortably. They should change the clamp design. You can't adjust the saddle angle without removing the saddle...


----------



## rdt

boulder74 said:


> Does anyone know of a frame set that is close in geo to a Roubaix or Synapse?
> 
> Thanks


Check out Miracle Trading MT-MC008 frame. It has a more relaxed, upright geo. At least that is what appears to me. I'd welcome others reflections as well.


----------



## Mankul

amenzies said:


> Mankul,
> 
> I had the same issue but changed to a Specialized Toupe and can now adjust through the centre cut out
> 
> Alan


DANG!

My saddle is the carbon saddle from great keen with no centre cut out... I"m pretty comfortable with the saddle

*I'm getting my post number to 10 so that I can post pictures*


----------



## Mankul

This is the bike I got from greatkeen 2 weeks ago. They had forgotten to send me the cages, I e-mailed them and I have the cages now.

My previous bike was the Giant 2003 TCR Aero.

This bike is great! I could really feel the added stiffness in the BB area.

My seatpost got stuck(cos it slipped in) but I manage to remove it... added teflon grease  ... Still faces the slipping post problem.... Now searching for the tacx carbon assembly grease...


----------



## Mankul

Thanks Playa for the saddle clamp pics.

From your photos, I can now confirm that they had given me a faulty saddle clamp! I had to adjust my saddle clamp after every ride. The clamp would go totally loose in a ride too! and I can't adjust the saddle angle at all. Pretty dissapointed about this. Because of this too, the carbon rails on my carbon saddle had peeled at various places because of the improper contact with the clamp.

Look at the pictures below. The upper clamp they gave me was totally bent and I had thought that it was the design of the clamp, not a flaw. Notice how my front bolt did not properly sit on the upper clamp plate and the upper clamp did not have proper contact with the rails?

I think they should give me a new set of clamp assembly as well as a new saddle.

Also, I had to screw in deeper into the front bolt nut and cause a hole through the seatpost as I had screwed beyond the bolt nut. I had to do this to get the my saddle horizontally! Else, my saddle would be pointing up.


----------



## nagge

Just did my first ride outside on my chinese bike, I've had it built and ready for about a month now but it wasn't until today that the snow had melted away and let me have a test ride. It all went very well and no problems at all, will take it on a longer ride tomorrow.

A pic just before we went out 


DSC00087


----------



## MojoHamuki

I can second this at least about greatkeen. Most replies are within 24 hours some 48. No different then when I contact trek.


----------



## timsen

Guys, I have an question.

Got my fm039 and for my setup I have to install the seatpost at the limit. ( it's not allowed to get the seatpost higher) Will this bring any risks for me? Can the seatpost handle this?


----------



## FTR

timsen said:


> Guys, I have an question.
> 
> Got my fm039 and for my setup I have to install the seatpost at the limit. ( it's not allowed to get the seatpost higher) Will this bring any risks for me? Can the seatpost handle this?


If this is the case I would suggest that you have the wrong size.


----------



## Crappymonkey

nagge said:


> Just did my first ride outside on my chinese bike, I've had it built and ready for about a month now but it wasn't until today that the snow had melted away and let me have a test ride. It all went very well and no problems at all, will take it on a longer ride tomorrow.
> 
> A pic just before we went out
> 
> 
> DSC00087


Very cool. I am waiting till I have some disposable cash and then I'll be placing an order on a 031 from either Miracle or Ican.


----------



## mjdwyer23

At least it will be easy to spot the fake cervelos when they start showing up on eBay.


----------



## FTR

nagge said:


> DSC00087


Nice looking bike but again I reckon you need bigger.
Same goes for your MTB, sorry.
That is a massive amount of seatpost on both.


----------



## Chadwick890

Not going to lie....This doesnt seem to be the China thread anymore more like Midwest Playas thread.
Just sayin since you appear to be full of yourself being a expert.


----------



## sandman77

Midwest Playa said:


> I am sure they will correct this isssue, if they dont let me know and I will shoot them an email,
> 
> We might do another run of group buyon these frames because after seeing mine the other day, everyone was salavating on how pretty she turned out to be.lol,
> 
> I will ask Great Keen if they can ship it directly to each individual addresses, and off course the purpose is to get additional savings. I have at least 3 guys here in my neck of the woods interested in getting a set. I will let you know if they are willing to do this so hold tight if you are interested. If we hit them with a group buy instead of purchasing one by one maybe we can get additional discount. :thumbsup:


This sounds interesting. I will be watching for any development.


----------



## rdt

Chadwick890 said:


> Not going to lie....This doesnt seem to be the China thread anymore more like Midwest Playas thread.
> Just sayin since you appear to be full of yourself being a expert.


As far as i'm concerned you Chadwick may be stepping in it by going there!

I have appreciated learning from Midwest's experience and knowledge. He has taken the risk and put his money out in buying a frame from China. He is simply sharing what he has done, what he knows, and how to avoid a mistake. All of us can benefit fron that. 

For example, he gave a heads-up regarding the weak front derailuer and made suggestions to correct it. When i sent in my request for price, i asked about it and was told it was being changed by Greatkeen. Without MW, i might have a problem that could be avoided.

MW does not have to tell anyone nothing about his buying experiences. It would be easy to keep silent and let others grope in the dark, attempting to figure it out on their own. He gets no benefit other than the satisfaction of helping other people. In my eyes that kind of generosity is found in few places today, right? 

If i understand correctly, that is what i assume the purpose of these forums are - not a place to criticize but contribute something of value to others.

Again, i have found great value from MW and i hope he continus to contribute more rather than withdraw into the silence of an annonymous lurker who, like too many others, merely take far more than they give.

Enough said. Have a nice day,


----------



## mjdwyer23

Chadwick890 said:


> Not going to lie....This doesnt seem to be the China thread anymore more like Midwest Playas thread.
> Just sayin since you appear to be full of yourself being a expert.


MWP knows his stuff. I'm sure that, when you get your FM098 built, you will be posting all over the place, too.


----------



## FTR

Man Chadwick, I thought I was a grumpy bastidge.


----------



## persondude27

FTR said:


> Nice looking bike but again I reckon you need bigger.
> Same goes for your MTB, sorry.
> That is a massive amount of seatpost on both.


Several manufacturers have a 54 cm S2 clone frame but not a 56. I am in the boat of needing a 56 but not being convinced that either supplier can get me one.

Also, just a FTR, (no pun intended) Lance rides a 58 cm Trek with a 130 mm stem and has since he was racing on 9-speed.

Look at the drop on this bike. It he can ride comfortably in a position like that, I would say that he's well beyond "look at my bike and critique my fit without knowing anything about my morphology" advice.


----------



## persondude27

Chadwick890 said:


> Not going to lie....This doesnt seem to be the China thread anymore more like Midwest Playas thread.
> Just sayin since you appear to be full of yourself being a expert.


My thought is, how does this guy have time to ride at all with as much as he posts? 

Just kidding, Midwest. I think you have answered every question asked of you promptly and thoroughly - that's what this board [should] be about. Cheers!


----------



## FTR

persondude27 said:


> Look at the drop on this bike. It he can ride comfortably in a position like that, I would say that he's well beyond "look at my bike and critique my fit without knowing anything about my morphology" advice.



EDIT: Wow, you are actually getting upset about my comment about someone else bike entirely. Even stranger that someone gets upset about a comment about something that is not even theirs. I thought I must have insulted you.

Meh.


----------



## nagge

FTR said:


> Nice looking bike but again I reckon you need bigger.
> Same goes for your MTB, sorry.
> That is a massive amount of seatpost on both.


Thanks! 

Regarding the fit it suits me perfect, that photo exaggerates the drop a bit as well (it's about a 12cm drop), although it is quite a racey setup. And it's only a 100mm stem so I have room if I want to stretch out even more, I'll probably end up getting a 110 or 120mm stem.

Here's another photo (different zoom) with the same setup:


----------



## Mankul

Midwest Playa said:


> I was sooo tempted to buy that saddle because my sit bones are so used to wearing a saddle with no pads, but I think my Assos bibs play a major role in keeping my comfy. Lets see some pics. Are they sexy looking? I want to see pics please


here goes


----------



## Mankul

Midwest Playa,

I just want to have a confirmation again regarding the seatpost. At the front bolt of the saddle clamp where the nut resides, is the area flushed or is there a hole like in my picture. Cos I remember I have to force through when I screw in the front bolt (because of the bent upper clamp, else my saddle will be pointing up and not horizontal) through the nut.


----------



## kanekikapu

Not sure if it's my internet but does anyone else notice how DengFu's own website and their Alibaba page disappeared? Strange.


----------



## timsen

FTR said:


> If this is the case I would suggest that you have the wrong size.


it's size 58 and I am 1,89cm. I thought this size should work out!


----------



## Chadwick890

kanekikapu said:


> Not sure if it's my internet but does anyone else notice how DengFu's own website and their Alibaba page disappeared? Strange.


I noticed that this afternoon as well quite strange.


----------



## FTR

timsen said:


> it's size 58 and I am 1,89cm. I thought this size should work out!


What inseam are you and what BB to top of saddle length are you trying to run?
I am on a 58cm with a 800mm BB to top of saddle.
I am 187.5cm with a 35.5" inseam.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

kanekikapu said:


> Not sure if it's my internet but does anyone else notice how DengFu's own website and their Alibaba page disappeared? Strange.





Chadwick890 said:


> I noticed that this afternoon as well quite strange.


Are DengFu and E-Hongfu are 2 different companies? I could be wrong ... I know they are spelt differently but ... you know ... 

Had a quick look at the Chinese frame picture thread and pulled this out ...

3k gloss
View attachment 252239


3k matte
View attachment 252240


full matte
View attachment 252241


doesn't really tell you much with such a small sample ... but the full matte is looking very enticing ...


----------



## timsen

FTR said:


> What inseam are you and what BB to top of saddle length are you trying to run?
> I am on a 58cm with a 800mm BB to top of saddle.
> I am 187.5cm with a 35.5" inseam.


I am on 58cm and need a BB to top of saddle of 845mm


----------



## FTR

timsen said:


> I am on 58cm and need a BB to top of saddle of 845mm


If you really need a 845 BB to top of saddle at your height then you have freakishly long legs and need a bigger bike as a result.


----------



## rdt

Midwest,

I sent pm. Can you check you inbox?

Thanks.


----------



## the mayor

timsen said:


> I am on 58cm and need a BB to top of saddle of 845mm


I know your pain.
I am 6' ( 183 cm)....but have a 36 inseam and 810 bb/saddle height.Makes frame sizing tough...especially with most frames being compact now. I tend to get frames with regular seatposts so I can put a longer one in.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

Are you guys using the LeMond method (just did a quick search online) of 88.3% of your inseam to measure the length between the top of your saddle to the middle of the bottom bracket?

'FTR' (inseam 35.5") and 'the mayor' (inseam 35") calculations comes pretty close at 796mm and 807mm respectively ... and I just measured mine and it came out pretty close too inseam 33" equates to 740mm ... :thumbsup:


----------



## the mayor

FTR said:


> Nice looking bike but again I reckon you need bigger.
> Same goes for your MTB, sorry.
> That is a massive amount of seatpost on both.


If you have long legs...that's what your bikes look like.
I'm 6' with a 36" inseam...all my mtb's have 400 seat posts to make the 810 bb ot seat height.
I have friends that are in the 6'4" range that can barely touch my pedals but think the rider compartment is cramped.


----------



## the mayor

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Are you guys using the LeMond method (just did a quick search online) of 88.3% of your inseam to measure the length between the top of your saddle to the middle of the bottom bracket?
> 
> 'FTR' (inseam 35.5") and 'the mayor' (inseam 35") calculations comes pretty close at 796mm and 807mm respectively ... and I just measured mine and it came out pretty close too inseam 33" equates to 740mm ... :thumbsup:


That method is a good starting point.
Shoes, pedals and crank length...and bio/mechanicals will effect that number
A good fitting ( and trust me...there are BAD fittings) will get you the right measurment.
My saddle height has remained consistent over the last 20 years...but my cockpit setup has shortened up a bit...getting old sucks ( but beats the alternative!)


----------



## the mayor

Midwest Playa said:


> Just a quick note, Sometime today just sit back and be thankful and reflect on how lucky we are to be able to enjoy life without the devastation that was experienced by those who were hit hard with the Tornadoes this past 2 days.
> 
> Be safe and ride hard:thumbsup:


This may be the best piece of info in this entire thread.....


----------



## rdt

*Group buy...*

Group buy for a Chinarello from Great Keen... who is ready to participate?

Midwest Playa is contacting Great Keen to see what he can negotiate for a discount price. Here's what he is trying to set up...



Group discount pricing based on volume rate
Each guy orders direct with GK 
Each guy pays directly to GK via Paypal or whatever works for them
Each guy gets bike shipped directly to their address

GK will give us a group discount code to use when we send individual orders. The code would be valid for a predetermined time period and you will have to order within that time to get the discount price.

So, it will be like an individual purchase but at a group buy discounted price. 

Let me or MWP know asap if you are in so MWP can get the best pricing possible.

As soon as details are worked out, MWP will inform the group what the arrangements are.

Questions?


----------



## atlas182

I'm looking at getting the FLX-FR-106 probably from e_baygoods listed as "2012 Full carbon Triathlon TT Road bike..." or as FLX-FR-106 on FLYXII's site. (Sorry for not having links. I'm a new forum user)

Has anyone built this frame up yet? I'm curious what brakes and headset people are using.


----------



## FTR

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Are you guys using the LeMond method (just did a quick search online) of 88.3% of your inseam to measure the length between the top of your saddle to the middle of the bottom bracket?
> 
> 'FTR' (inseam 35.5") and 'the mayor' (inseam 35") calculations comes pretty close at 796mm and 807mm respectively ... and I just measured mine and it came out pretty close too inseam 33" equates to 740mm ... :thumbsup:


To be truthful, my Retul fitter recommended 810mm for me but I prefer a further back cleat placement to what he recommended and as a result I have dropped my saddle 10mm to compensate.
The further forward cleat placement he recommended gave me sore feet and this persisted for a month. I changed them back to how I had them and the problem was solved instantly.


----------



## FTR

the mayor said:


> That method is a good starting point.
> Shoes, pedals and crank length...and bio/mechanicals will effect that number


And cleat position too.


----------



## MTBAlex

So it looks like a dogma 1 frame right? And not a dogma2. However, it does have the dogma 2 paint job.


----------



## Seneb

Does anyone have any experience with the Flyxi FR-303 frame? Searching hasn't come up with anything.


----------



## persondude27

If anyone buys anything besides the white/black/grey, you're a fool! Unless you go with Midwest's build of soul-stealing black.


----------



## LONDON-GUY

persondude27 said:


> If anyone buys anything besides the white/black/grey, you're a fool! Unless you go with Midwest's build of soul-stealing black.


I do agree the white/black/grey does look good but I also think the blue/green/white makes for a nice combination as I feel the red/black/white is starting to get a little bit common. IMO


----------



## FTR

I would do my own pink, blue and white version if I was going to get a Chinarello.
None of the designs posted appeal to me at all.


----------



## Chadwick890

FTR said:


> I would do my own pink, blue and white version if I was going to get a Chinarello.
> Noe of the designs posted appeal to me at all.


Id buy that one  But id go Black instead of white.
But if they couldnt make that one. Id go the Black/White/Red one(3rd one down)
Why only the Grey Black White one though? Why are we crazy if we dont get that?


----------



## FTR

Like these I did for my MTB frame and fork:


----------



## Seneb

Midwest Playa said:


> Great keen just emailed me a response regarding the 2012 available paint shceme, I am not going to post all of them but here are some that you might like
> 
> They said they can pretty much do all the 2012 Colors.
> 
> Let me read thier response regarding my inquiry about a possible group buy.
> 
> I just got back from riding 45 miles today, I almost hit 50 MPH on one downhill. I was riding my SL 90 Eastons tabular carbons equipped with ceramic bearings. This bike has no fear, Its very stable at high speed just like my SL3 Tarmac and when I stand up she responded accordingly. No back pain no kind of complain what so ever. The only complain I have is everytime we stopped at a gas station to get some drinks I kept getting compliments on how pretty this bike is.


I simply do not understand the fascination with the Dogma. I think it is one of the worst looking frames ever designed. I'm not trying to offend anyone, but just don't get it.


----------



## C'villian

I would be in for the GreatKeen group buy pending details. (Unfortunately, my post count isn't up high enough for a PM.)


----------



## MTBAlex

I would be interested as well depending on the price and bundle.


----------



## Chadwick890

This is just regarding the Dengfu Alibaba page issues. Ive just had a chat with Lucky and was given this explanation.

[2:37:54 PM]Chadwick: Hello Lucky just curious Dengfu's alibaba page is down is everything alright?
[2:39:00 PM] Lucky: hello, tim. you can visit our own website.
[2:39:27 PM] Chadwick: So nothings wrong? Everything is still ok? Just technical issues?
[2:39:46 PM] Lucky: yes, everthing is ok. please don't worry
[2:40:12 PM] Lucky: the alibaba page will be ok within 10days.

This is there website for those that dont know DengFuBieks


----------



## squirrelflip21

*Group buy*

For the Group Buy - is everyone getting the same thing? Frame, fork, seat post, integrated bars and head set? 




rdt said:


> Group buy for a Chinarello from Great Keen... who is ready to participate?
> 
> Midwest Playa is contacting Great Keen to see what he can negotiate for a discount price. Here's what he is trying to set up...
> 
> 
> 
> Group discount pricing based on volume rate
> Each guy orders direct with GK
> Each guy pays directly to GK via Paypal or whatever works for them
> Each guy gets bike shipped directly to their address
> 
> GK will give us a group discount code to use when we send individual orders. The code would be valid for a predetermined time period and you will have to order within that time to get the discount price.
> 
> So, it will be like an individual purchase but at a group buy discounted price.
> 
> Let me or MWP know asap if you are in so MWP can get the best pricing possible.
> 
> As soon as details are worked out, MWP will inform the group what the arrangements are.
> 
> Questions?


----------



## sandman77

I am also too new for pm's but please put me down as interested in the group buy.


----------



## kanekikapu

Sweet thanks for the update Chadwick. Glad to see them back online.




Chadwick890 said:


> This is just regarding the Dengfu Alibaba page issues. Ive just had a chat with Lucky and was given this explanation.
> 
> [2:37:54 PM]Chadwick: Hello Lucky just curious Dengfu's alibaba page is down is everything alright?
> [2:39:00 PM] Lucky: hello, tim. you can visit our own website.
> [2:39:27 PM] Chadwick: So nothings wrong? Everything is still ok? Just technical issues?
> [2:39:46 PM] Lucky: yes, everthing is ok. please don't worry
> [2:40:12 PM] Lucky: the alibaba page will be ok within 10days.
> 
> This is there website for those that dont know DengFuBieks


----------



## kweenam

Mankul said:


> Midwest Playa, can you take a close up pic of your seatpost clamp? I've got issues with the clamp. Can't seem to adjust the saddle angle comfortably. They should change the clamp design. You can't adjust the saddle angle without removing the saddle...


Hi Friend,

I have the same problem you have, so I go down to one of local hardware shop and show them the bolt and buy two longer bolts and that solve the problem.


----------



## boulder74

PM sent.. I think


----------



## the mayor

Finally got an email back from Tony's DengFu address after 3 weeks.
It was from a Martina who didn't answer any of the questions I asked....but did say they had the frame and I should pay right away. Hmmm.
I already bought from Ebay.


----------



## b378

edit:nvm


----------



## Vee

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Are DengFu and E-Hongfu are 2 different companies? I could be wrong ... I know they are spelt differently but ... you know ...
> 
> Had a quick look at the Chinese frame picture thread and pulled this out ...
> 
> 3k gloss
> View attachment 252239
> 
> 
> 3k matte
> View attachment 252240
> 
> 
> full matte
> View attachment 252241
> 
> 
> doesn't really tell you much with such a small sample ... but the full matte is looking very enticing ...


I don't think you understand it. Matter and gloss are finishes. Glossy being shiney finish and matte being a flat dull finish. 

3k, 12k, and UD refer to the weave of the carbon. UD has no real weave, and instead all fibers run in the same direction. 3k has small weave you most commonly see. And 12k has a large weave. 

If people ask for matte + a color, for example matte black, they will paint the frame black, covering the carbon entirely, and then leave it with a matte finish. 

Hope that helps.


----------



## mjdwyer23

Does anyone else have any miles on an FM098? The saddle clamp assembly has proven difficult to get to stay put -- the saddle will rotate back during a ride, pointing the saddle nose upward. I'm going to try carbon grip paste (even though it's Al/Al) and see if that works. Anybody else run into this?


----------



## Seneb

Soooo.... Back to the topic at hand...

Has anyone purchased from Flyxii??


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

Vee said:


> ...
> 3k, 12k, and UD refer to the weave of the carbon. UD has no real weave, and instead all fibers run in the same direction. 3k has small weave you most commonly see. And 12k has a large weave. ...


Oh no no ... those were the options that i was considering ... cheers anyway


----------



## zender

uh-oh


----------



## MarvinK

Probably tastes the same... certainly they must treat their employees the same, too. Perfectly acceptable.


----------



## andresmuro

Seneb said:


> Soooo.... Back to the topic at hand...
> 
> Has anyone purchased from Flyxii??


I ordered a road frame, fork, headset two bottle cages, a seatpost, seat clamp and headset spacers. Total, $420 shipped. MY frame was shipped on Monday the 27th of February and arrived on Saturday march 4. Everything was smooth. The responded to all my emails within a day. They are actually the biggest seller of Carbon frames on ebay.


----------



## andresmuro

MarvinK said:


> ^ this
> 
> It's shocking how many people find it perfectly acceptable to openly discuss a group buy of a counterfeit Pinarello frame with full on logos and paint.
> 
> What's not perfectly acceptable about it... aside from the intellectual theft and it being ILLEGAL!?


Ah, the thought police telling people what to talk about and reprimanding those who dare to talk about Chnarellos. I feel safe now knowing that someone is protecting the interests of Pinarello.


----------



## kgs499

I like the more general, is carbon actually strong question...


----------



## Seneb

andresmuro said:


> I ordered a road frame, fork, headset two bottle cages, a seatpost, seat clamp and headset spacers. Total, $420 shipped. MY frame was shipped on Monday the 27th of February and arrived on Saturday march 4. Everything was smooth. The responded to all my emails within a day. They are actually the biggest seller of Carbon frames on ebay.


Thank you, that's great to hear. I'm leaning toward the FR-303 frameset and one of their seatposts. Did you have to order the headset and seatpost clamp separately, or did they come with the frame?


----------



## the mayor

kgs499 said:


> I like the more general, is carbon actually strong question...


Every one knows carbon assplodes when you look at it wrong.
It's well documented on the interwebs.

I say stick a fork in version 6.0 and let's get busy with 7.0
And I want this orange chinarello.....


----------



## andresmuro

civdic said:


> I met up at my local "high end" bike shop on Sunday for a chilly winter group ride. I decided to grab an extra tube before we left.
> 
> I walked into the shop and noticed a sign posted above the work area which read: We do no longer build up or service Chinese no name bikes/wheels. It didn't read exactly like that but essentially that's what it said.
> 
> I spoke to the owner on the ride and he indicated that the shop has built up "too many" bikes that have come back with customer complaints. He said he had a local tri rider came back after a race with a busted up lip and a broken wheel in which he purchased off ebay and they had built up on a DT hubs. He said he was sick of customers complaining that the shop was somehow responsible for poor performing bikes and that the "build up" was somehow the result of the poor performance.
> 
> He also said he was tired of the modifications to be made on some of the frames to make cable routing work or the way BB's are out of alignment or how derailleurs don't mount properly without removing frame material.
> 
> I'd be interested to know how many other shops or shop owners on RBR don't touch "no name" bikes. My understanding would there could be some good money being made on selling complete groups and building wheels.


That may be so, but. there are over 10,000 posts in this group about people who have dealt with Chinese frames. Most of the posts indicate that the frames have lasted a long time and that they work really well and do not disintegrate. People have been posting here for several years about this. 

the ones who complain about poor Chinese quality, etc are people who never tried the frames. You can check out the pinarello, trek cerevelo forums to see if they have the same number of positive posts about those frames. Also, the chinese companies sell thousands of frames on ebay and they have very high ratings, and you don't see many people posting here that they got a chinese frame from ebay and that they got treated poorly by these companies. Complains are always by a third person such as, "I have a friend who got a chinese frame and he almost died when it exploded and release poisonous gas". He contacted the seller who replied that he was sending additional poison to finish him off". 

One of my friends owns a bike shop. He started to sell chinese framesets about 4 years ago. He sells them for about $700 to $900. He builds the bikes and gives 3 years instead of 2 year warranty since the frame alone costs him 2 to 300. He figures, the extra year warranty is worth the risk. So far, no frames have exploded. 

The other bike shops do maintenace on chinese bikes regularly. An overhaul generates $100 per bike and technically, adjusting gears, shifters, breaks, cables bottom brackets, handlebars, etc, does not make the bike shop liable for the frame exploding. nor does building a bike. 

Regarding the shop onwer who built a wheelset that broke indicates poor building technique, poor judgement on the builder about weight and spoke count, or poor judgement by the owner about what he wanted. The weak link of a wheel is in the spokes, not in the rim. 
.


----------



## andresmuro

Seneb said:


> Thank you, that's great to hear. I'm leaning toward the FR-303 frameset and one of their seatposts. Did you have to order the headset and seatpost clamp separately, or did they come with the frame?


I ordered everything as a package deal. I chose the stuff from the website and asked them for a total price. They said $420 shipped and sent me a detailed invoice to my paypal account.


----------



## Coolhand

*Moderators Note*

Per requests, I de-merged the thread/conversations back to a separate thread, to prevent a derail of this one.


----------



## flyjoe

[No message]


----------



## flyjoe

Coolhand said:


> Per requests, I de-merged the thread/conversations back to a separate thread, to prevent a derail of this one.


 Thank you sir! you're the best!


----------



## Seneb

andresmuro said:


> I ordered everything as a package deal. I chose the stuff from the website and asked them for a total price. They said $420 shipped and sent me a detailed invoice to my paypal account.


That's awesome. I'll try the same thing when I'm ready to order. Thanks!


----------



## Vee

andresmuro said:


> I ordered everything as a package deal. I chose the stuff from the website and asked them for a total price. They said $420 shipped and sent me a detailed invoice to my paypal account.


420 shipped sounds super cheap. what did you end up with for that price?


----------



## SBains187

Midwest Playa said:


> All you have to do is PM me and I wil give you the link. I have no problem giving you this info. I just dont like advertizing this frame out in the open because first of all I have nothing to gain 0 $$$. I have to respect the already pissed off folks that shelled out so much money for an original. Make sense?


Heya, thanks for the offer; however, i don't have 10 posts yet so i actually can PM you, lol. If you don't mind could you PM it to me?

Cheers


----------



## FTR

Just needed to read a little further and you would have found it.



Midwest Playa said:


> Ok I am going to let the cat out the bag but dont blame me for it.
> 
> 
> GreatKeen Bike Sport Equipment Co.,Ltd


----------



## andresmuro

Vee said:


> 420 shipped sounds super cheap. what did you end up with for that price?


frame, fork headset, seatpost, 2 h2o cages, seat clamp, headset spacers. The frame, fork and headset was on ebay for $375 shipped. I asked how mucho more for the rest and he said $420 for everything.


----------



## kanekikapu

Keep us posted about the frame! Been eyeing it for a while. I believe that's the same frame as Helin Liu's HLFM003. Trying to decide whether I should go for the FR-303/HLFM003 or the ICAN SP-AC058...



andresmuro said:


> frame, fork headset, seatpost, 2 h2o cages, seat clamp, headset spacers. The frame, fork and headset was on ebay for $375 shipped. I asked how mucho more for the rest and he said $420 for everything.


----------



## squirrelflip21

*Dogma 603 Giro*

I wonder if GreatKeen can do this Giro D'italia Color way (603)
I'd be down for that!

Close up and more detailed pics here:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/pinarello/special-edition-dogma-248186.html


----------



## MTBAlex

Anyone know what chinese frame is similar to a cervelo r2? Is thr weight of the chinese frame comproable? What about ride quality?


----------



## cocomo

Dengfu now have a statement on their website. I never realised they were the same as Greatkeen


----------



## Mumblesmiler

Very interested in the group buy if it comes off.


----------



## Mumblesmiler

But I don't have enough posts to pm you


----------



## Mumblesmiler

But I do now


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

I am considering the HF FM-015 in full matte ... picture kindly sent by e-hongfu ...

View attachment 252369


To those who have purchased frames from e-hongfu, were there any problems with assembly of components? Additional facing of bottom bracket required? Minor adjustment of adding spacers or removing some frame material is ok and acceptable ... I just wanted to manage my expectation.

Does leaving the frame gloss affect the stiffness or offer better protection? Comparing 3k gloss with 3k matte and with 3k painted?

On another note, other than weight is there other considerations if I were to go ISP. I know the height will not be adjustable when out on the road and if I were to cut it too short ... it remains so ...


----------



## sandman77

cocomo said:


> Dengfu now have a statement on their website. I never realised they were the same as Greatkeen


Yes but greatkeen and greatkeenbikes are separate companies.


----------



## Bridgey

squirrelflip21 said:


> I wonder if GreatKeen can do this Giro D'italia Color way (603)
> I'd be down for that!
> 
> Close up and more detailed pics here:
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/pinarello/special-edition-dogma-248186.html


The problem is that the real Pinarello you are showing here is built in 1k carbon. The Chinarello's are 3k. So there will be a little difference. Might look better if you try and get it built in either Matte finish with the decals or UD. Either way, nice looking bike.


----------



## Mankul

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> I am considering the HF FM-015 in full matte ... picture kindly sent by e-hongfu ...
> 
> View attachment 252369
> 
> 
> To those who have purchased frames from e-hongfu, were there any problems with assembly of components? Additional facing of bottom bracket required? Minor adjustment of adding spacers or removing some frame material is ok and acceptable ... I just wanted to manage my expectation.
> 
> Does leaving the frame gloss affect the stiffness or offer better protection? Comparing 3k gloss with 3k matte and with 3k painted?
> 
> On another note, other than weight is there other considerations if I were to go ISP. I know the height will not be adjustable when out on the road and if I were to cut it too short ... it remains so ...


You'll have a problem with ISP if you change saddle in the future as as saddle height from the rails is different.


----------



## jordo_99

rdt said:


> Group buy for a Chinarello from Great Keen... who is ready to participate?
> 
> Midwest Playa is contacting Great Keen to see what he can negotiate for a discount price. Here's what he is trying to set up...
> ...
> ...
> ...
> Let me or MWP know asap if you are in so MWP can get the best pricing possible.
> Questions?


Sent a PM but figured I'd ask a question here rather than in PM.


Is this group buy limited to a certain frame/fork/paint combination? It's probably not going to matter much to me but it'd be nice to know if we're given any flexibility on paint/frameset...etc...or if it just has to be an order from them in general. I've been interested in getting a Chinese TT frame for a while now but I could also use a new road frame as well.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

Mankul said:


> You'll have a problem with ISP if you change saddle in the future as as saddle height from the rails is different.


Thank you very much for that ... _that is why forums are so useful_ ... did not think of that angle ... :thumbsup:


----------



## Bridgey

Mankul said:


> You'll have a problem with ISP if you change saddle in the future as as saddle height from the rails is different.


Isn't there still potential for about 2cm's of vertical movement even with ISP?


----------



## logrus

Hey midwestplaya. I have been lurking a while. I cannot pm but interested in the group buy subject to details. Please add me as an interested party

Thanks


----------



## persondude27

squirrelflip21 said:


> I wonder if GreatKeen can do this Giro D'italia Color way (603)
> I'd be down for that!
> 
> Close up and more detailed pics here:
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/pinarello/special-edition-dogma-248186.html


Heck, I could do that one for you... just take two 2" long pinarello decals, make 'em pink, BOOM! Done. 



c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> I am considering the HF FM-015 in full matte ... picture kindly sent by e-hongfu ...
> 
> To those who have purchased frames from e-hongfu, were there any problems with assembly of components? Additional facing of bottom bracket required? Minor adjustment of adding spacers or removing some frame material is ok and acceptable ... I just wanted to manage my expectation.


I bought from e-Hongfu about 12 months ago (and have put 7,000 miles of hard riding on it since, including 5 hours today and 10 hours this past weekend). There were a couple of minor things:
1) the rear brake mount was too small, so I don't think my female washer (SRAM Force) is coming out... ever. Oh well. $1 if I ever sell the bike without the groupset. Braking is fine - I hit 56 mph today and braked hard REALLY hard into a corner. Also, I was crit practicing, a state patrolman drove by, and I locked up the wheels to stop in time. Fine.

2) The headset that they give you is REALLY tight. It is a pain to get onto the steerer, but once it's on, it's on. Fine headset, no probems.

3) Finally, and this is my biggest problem with this frame: the cable stops for the shifters are too far into the center. The cables have to be run at a generous angle, or you'll be coming in tight around the headtube. I would like to see another .5 cm on each side, but haven't had any issues yet.

FTR, I bought a size 55cm FM015 from e-Hongfu. For matte 3k [should've gotten matte 12K or UD, but got 3K and 12K confused] frame ($415) fork ($0) headset ($15) paint ($40) handlebars ($60) stem ($15) seatpost ($38) two carbon cages ($24) and shipping ($75), paypal (some %), I was at $715.

As you may be able to tell, I am very particular with my equipment. The handlebars that I got are the ergo ones - HB003? They are basically FSA Wing Pro Aero knockoffs. If they were wing pro compacts, I would've been super happy, but didn't like the shape. I ride with a deep drop anyway, and the fact that the Wing Pro Aero (NOT compact) drops the hoods another CM or so is not what I like.

The stem was crap. Don't buy them. The stem itself may have been fine, but it was WAY heavy (165g?) and the lip on it didn't sit flush on the spacers or headset, so it would allow the headset to rock back and forth by a mm or so.

The bottle cages were OK. If you buy one, but one with a HUGE tab on the bottom. I broke two of the tiny-tab ones, but I also don't go easy on my frame.




c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Does leaving the frame gloss affect the stiffness or offer better protection? Comparing 3k gloss with 3k matte and with 3k painted?


I don't know. I have a 3K matte, and can't really find any big chips. I feel like the gloss actually chips more easily - or if it doesn't, it's more easy to see chips in it. That's purely n=1 experience, though, since I don't have a 3K gloss bike.



c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> On another note, other than weight is there other considerations if I were to go ISP. I know the height will not be adjustable when out on the road and if I were to cut it too short ... it remains so ...


ISP, huh? I know 2-3 people with em. They may be stiffer, but I am a tinkerer. I need the adjustability. I'd never have been able to make an ISP work.


----------



## Vee

Nicktech9 said:


> If anyones unhapy with their isp frame let me know, im looking for a 56 i wrecked my caad and need a replacement soon. Thanks!


My FM015 ISP is fine, but the seatmast was way too heavy to see any benefit in weight. I ended up spending another $200 and getting a Tune Cappy, but then I had to shim the ISP (which is 37mm) to get the Tune Cappy (which is 38.35mm) to grip and tighten around the seatpost.

Skip the trouble and get the Non-ISP and spend the extra money you save from buying a Tune Cappy on a nice lightweight seatpost with a better saddle clamping mechanism than the ones coming from China.


----------



## Nicktech9

*Fm015 isp*

If anyones unhapy with their isp frame let me know, im looking for a 56 i wrecked my caad and need a replacement soon. Thanks!


----------



## FTR

Never mind.
Worked it out.


----------



## cajer

Has anyone tried getting oakley jawbones from cycling yong's webpage on alibaba? Are they legit sunglass frames?


----------



## beston

cajer said:


> Has anyone tried getting oakley jawbones from cycling yong's webpage on alibaba? Are they legit frames?


I haven't seen a single thing on cycling yong's page that is 'legit'. It's about the farthest thing from legit that you can get.


----------



## cajer

Sorry what I meant to say is will they fit actual Oakley lenses as I'm thinking of buying one and putting prescription Oakley lenses in them.


----------



## PlatyPius

cajer said:


> Sorry what I meant to say is will they fit actual Oakley lenses as I'm thinking of buying one and putting prescription Oakley lenses in them.


Someone else on RBR tried it. No, they won't fit. I don't know why someone would think that counterfeit Oakleys would be the same as real ones....


----------



## trailrunner68

PlatyPius said:


> Someone else on RBR tried it. No, they won't fit. I don't know why someone would think that counterfeit Oakleys would be the same as real ones....


They would not have to be the "same." If they fit Oakley's lenses then it might be better than paying a C-note plus for two cents worth of plastic.


----------



## cajer

So does anyone have any experience with these and know if they will fit actual Oakley lenses?


----------



## foofighter

has anyone been successful in finding a BMC impec or similar replica frame?


----------



## Banditgrrr

I'm also interested in the group but cannot PM. Please add me to the list when the details are available. My first choice would be a BMC Race Machine but I like Playas ride also. Super interested in the group buy details.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

persondude27 said:


> ...
> I bought from e-Hongfu about 12 months ago (and have put 7,000 miles of hard riding on it since, including 5 hours today and 10 hours this past weekend). There were a couple of minor things:
> ...
> 2) The headset that they give you is REALLY tight. It is a pain to get onto the steerer, but once it's on, it's on. Fine headset, no probems.
> 
> 3) Finally, and this is my biggest problem with this frame: the cable stops for the shifters are too far into the center. The cables have to be run at a generous angle, or you'll be coming in tight around the headtube. I would like to see another .5 cm on each side, but haven't had any issues yet.
> 
> FTR, I bought a size 55cm FM015 from e-Hongfu. For matte 3k [should've gotten matte 12K or UD, but got 3K and 12K confused]
> ...


Cheers for that ...

Do you know what was the internal diameter of the headset? Top and bottom? I check with them and this was what I got ...

inner diameter (42-52mm)
outer diameter (48-57mm)


From the Chris King website ... the 3 sizes that I was hoping to see was 34mm, 44mm or 49mm.

I think the inner diameter should be 44mm for the top and 49mm for the bottom? Can you check your frame to see if the outer diameter (_non relevant actually, but it eliminates 2 of the numbers above_) is actually 52mm and 57mm for the top and bottom of the headset, then it is typo error from the sales person from e-Hongfu, which means the inner diameter should be top 42mm and bottom 48mm which looks more logical .... hope you get what I mean ...

On another note ... do you feel that 12k would have been better as it is stiffer?


----------



## FTR

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> On another note ... do you feel that 12k would have been better as it is stiffer?


This gets answered about every 2nd week.
The outer weave (3K, 12K or UD) is completely for looks and has no impact whatsoever on the stiffness.


----------



## jonoir

Ok then guys,

I have pushed the button on my fm039 today in Matte 3k non isp from Hongfu

I'll keep you posted on delivery speed and build process. 

I'm happy to answer any questions about the parts of the process I have experience so far


----------



## cardinalfire

Where did you buy this? Cyclingyong by chance? thanks!


----------



## cardinalfire

nagge said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Regarding the fit it suits me perfect, that photo exaggerates the drop a bit as well (it's about a 12cm drop), although it is quite a racey setup. And it's only a 100mm stem so I have room if I want to stretch out even more, I'll probably end up getting a 110 or 120mm stem.
> 
> Here's another photo (different zoom) with the same setup:


Where did you buy this? Cycling yong by chance? Thanks


----------



## zigmeister

Anybody who has had the tight headset, what is your plan if you need to replace it? I see the PVC rig to get it on, what are you going to do to remove it?

My MT-MC053 arrived at the post office from Miracle Trade. Took 7 days to arrive. Going to pick it up laterfrom the PO. Will take photos and document the build for the thread and post it up when I have it all done.

Thanks


----------



## beston

Midwest Playa said:


> To make it simple for everyone this is only going to be for the Frame, Headset, Fork, Seatpost, Clamp.and shipping.


Just to clarify: What frame models would be a part of this. Is it just what is listed on www.greatkeenbike.com?

thanks.


----------



## Reeve

hi guys,

an update on my fm098 seatpost, i managed to find a cheap bontrager seatpost and transferred the saddle clamp parts. Will get the ears for the carbon rails this weekend! hope everything goes well!


----------



## zigmeister

Did I get the wrong headset? MC053 frame from Miracle.

I got 2 headsets, I only tried one, didn't open the other box yet. But, the top, with some sanding and maybe grease/rubber mallet, might get it to fit on the top frame.

The fork however, I see no way this thing will come close to going around at the fatter part. Sledgehammer and all with PVC pipe. It has to be about 1/8" too small in diameter? It is supposed to be a 1 1/2" at the bottom. Tried both pieces, and they are 1-1/8 from what I can tell. Maybe the other box has the larger size for some reason, never opened that and just assumed.

Seems like I should have one piece that is 1 1/4 and the other 1 1/8th.

Thoughts?

Also, it isn't a normal compression headset cap like I'm used to with my CDale. That expands out. It has the little star pieces? Not familiar with these personally.

Anyway, here is the headset, either I'm a moron and don't know what I'm doing, or this thing isn't ever going to fit and is the wrong size...haha..


----------



## FTR

Ummm looking at those pictures I dont reckon the piece you have on the fork is the crown race.
Looks like it has a bearing in there and is one of sections that should be in the frame.
Also does not look like you have the lower bearing installed in your frame.

Maybe a pic of everything you have would be helpful.


----------



## zigmeister

FTR said:


> Ummm looking at those pictures I dont reckon the piece you have on the fork is the crown race.
> Looks like it has a bearing in there and is one of sections that should be in the frame.
> Also does not look like you have the lower bearing installed in your frame.
> 
> Maybe a pic of everything you have would be helpful.


Yeah, need to re-evaluate this. I will put up a photo of everything. Maybe the other box has more pieces and they only sent me one. Just like they didn't send me 2 RD hangers, when I asked for them. Only got 1 of those.

I will post up a photo of all the pieces, something isn't right, or as I said, I can't put simple pieces in the right order.

That last photo is what I think is the crown race right?


----------



## FTR

I am going to say you have the top bearing cup on your fork steerer and the bottom bearing cup is what you are trying to fit where the top bearing cup goes. You seem to be missing the bottom bearing itself and the crown race though.


----------



## Seneb

zigmeister said:


> I will post up a photo of all the pieces, something isn't right, or as I said, I can't put simple pieces in the right order.


Yeah, put up a photo of all the headset pieces before you break out the hammer!


----------



## zigmeister

FTR said:


> I am going to say you have the top bearing cup on your fork steerer and the bottom bearing cup is what you are trying to fit where the top bearing cup goes. You seem to be missing the bottom bearing itself and the crown race though.


What is odd, is the two bearings/cups are identical in the one box. I just put a photo of what I think is the crown race that came out of the box on the fork.

I'm not at home, so I can't check the other box. Wonder if it has a 1-1/4" bearing pieces since it is a 1-1/8 to 1-1/4" headset frame? I bet I just need to check the other box and it has the pieces. Which would be a disappointment since that means they shorted me an additional headset and rear hanger that wasn't in the box.

Do I have the theory right? Wouldn't I need a 1-1/8" bearings/top piece for the top of the frame, and then a 1-1/4" for the bottom, the bearing/race crown being 1-1/4" since it is larger in diameter? Or is the internal sizing the same? I don't have calipers, so I'm just going on my eye.


----------



## Crappymonkey

DealExtreme also sells the Oakley sunglasses (the jawbone and the fast jacket xl) in a bunch of colors.


----------



## FTR

zigmeister said:


> What is odd, is the two bearings/cups are identical in the one box. I just put a photo of what I think is the crown race that came out of the box on the fork.
> 
> I'm not at home, so I can't check the other box. Wonder if it has a 1-1/4" bearing pieces since it is a 1-1/8 to 1-1/4" headset frame? I bet I just need to check the other box and it has the pieces. Which would be a disappointment since that means they shorted me an additional headset and rear hanger that wasn't in the box.
> 
> Do I have the theory right? Wouldn't I need a 1-1/8" bearings/top piece for the top of the frame, and then a 1-1/4" for the bottom, the bearing/race crown being 1-1/4" since it is larger in diameter? Or is the internal sizing the same? I don't have calipers, so I'm just going on my eye.


Yep.
I am going to guess you have other parts in the box that you need as there is also a lower bearing missing.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

FTR said:


> This gets answered about every 2nd week.
> The outer weave (3K, 12K or UD) is completely for looks and has no impact whatsoever on the stiffness.


Cheers for that ...


----------



## Seneb

WHAT'S IN THE BOX???


----------



## the mayor

zigmeister said:


> Yeah, need to re-evaluate this. I will put up a photo of everything. Maybe the other box has more pieces and they only sent me one. Just like they didn't send me 2 RD hangers, when I asked for them. Only got 1 of those.
> 
> I will post up a photo of all the pieces, something isn't right, or as I said, I can't put simple pieces in the right order.
> 
> That last photo is what I think is the crown race right?


You take time to take pictures and post up here...
But you haven't checked what's in the 2nd box?


----------



## cansprint

*check out this video cutting chinese carbon frame*

check this out...not sure what to make of it...

youtube.com/watch?v=XEcDdtiVA-o&feature=related[/url]


----------



## zigmeister

the mayor said:


> You take time to take pictures and post up here...
> But you haven't checked what's in the 2nd box?


I left my house and don't have access to the other box. I just "assumed" the other box was the "extra" headset they were supposed to send me.

Then it occurred later to actually look in the other box. But the box is 23 miles away at the moment.

Sorry...But cool photos huh?

My luck, it will be an identical headset that is too small.

I will post up the rest of the photos of the frame, seat post, clamp and do a build up post later. The rest of the install is easy.


----------



## jrielley

Midwest Playa said:


> Good Afternoon Everyone
> 
> Me and RDT are working very hard for free.lol As soon as we get final pricing I will pm individuals who are interested. I dont know the rules as far as advertizing a group buy on this forum I have never coordinated one and the last thing I want is some heat from the Moderators. Please get with RDT if you are interested and lets leave it at that.
> 
> To make it simple for everyone this is only going to be for the Frame, Headset, Fork, Seatpost, Clamp.and shipping. I want to get one good price for everyone. I am sure if you want to get the additional parts ie the Integrated handlebar which I have and the bottle cages and the carbon seat, They will give you a discount if they know you were part of a group buy.
> 
> Again I am doing this to pay it forward. No monies gained that goes for Mr RDT who is nice enough to give me a helping hand. Ok let me go for a 20 mile ride and will be back later
> 
> Peace out everyone


I hope this isn't a repeat as I tried to post but I do not think it went through. I would be possibly interested in the group buy. This is my first post so I do not think I can PM so if you need to get a hold of me with info my email is jhrielley @ att dot net. Thanks a lot!


----------



## Bridgey

cansprint said:


> check this out...not sure what to make of it...
> 
> youtube.com/watch?v=XEcDdtiVA-o&feature=related[/url]


Well that was freaky!! I'll be checking my Chinarello over carefully. It'd be nice if they told us where they got it from. Couldn't believe the spongy BB. What is the purpose of plastic and cardboard in the tubing?? I'm pretty sure they use an inflatable bladder for the Chinarrello's anyways.


----------



## zigmeister

So here is the other package, exact same thing. All of the pieces are 1-1/8". None fit properly of course over the fork. Oh, and an extra bearing in the other box...ok then.


----------



## FTR

zigmeister said:


> So here is the other package, exact same thing. All of the pieces are 1-1/8". None fit properly of course over the fork.



Yep.
Completely the wrong headset.
Either contact them for the right one or go to your LBS and get one that suits (there is a Cane Creek one that works perfectly I believe).
That headset is for a 1 1/8th and a fork with an alloy steerer.


----------



## MTBMaven

I may be missing something here zigmeister but it looks like you have a tapered fork/headset. The upper bearings will be 1 1/8" and the lower will 1 1/2". Assuming this is the case don't just go get another 1 1/8" headset. If you go to your LBS to get another headset just have them install the lower race on the fork for you. If you get the headset there they shouldn't charge you anything (unless it's a Performance shop or something).


----------



## zigmeister

FTR said:


> Yep.
> Completely the wrong headset.
> Either contact them for the right one or go to your LBS and get one that suits (there is a Cane Creek one that works perfectly I believe).
> That headset is for a 1 1/8th and a fork with an alloy steerer.


That is what I figured. I will just get another one, do you know the part number for the Cane Creek?


Also, what about the BB? I've got a SRAM GXP Team BB, it came with two washers for possible width.

I have some Red GXP Cranks. When I put the washers on and start to tighten it, the cranks won't even turn. Says to use about 40ft. lbs/50nm...but you get over 10lbs, and it basically stops turning?

No spacers for the GXP BB?

Thanks


----------



## Salsa_Lover

cansprint said:


> check this out...not sure what to make of it...
> 
> youtube.com/watch?v=XEcDdtiVA-o&feature=related[/url]


let me help you with the embedding


----------



## FTR

zigmeister said:


> That is what I figured. I will just get another one, do you know the part number for the Cane Creek?
> 
> Also, what about the BB? I've got a SRAM GXP Team BB, it came with two washers for possible width.
> 
> I have some Red GXP Cranks. When I put the washers on and start to tighten it, the cranks won't even turn. Says to use about 40ft. lbs/50nm...but you get over 10lbs, and it basically stops turning?
> 
> No spacers for the GXP BB?
> 
> Thanks


Do a search.
It was mentioned in either this thread or version 5.
You should not need any spacers from my experience (I have Red on both my Moots and my FM028).


----------



## zigmeister

FTR said:


> Do a search.
> It was mentioned in either this thread or version 5.
> You should not need any spacers from my experience (I have Red on both my Moots and my FM028).


Thanks, I just did a quick test, definitely no spacers.


----------



## foofighter

the plastic i can see it being used as the bladder the cardboard...well that is questionable...bringing up to UCI weight minimum?


----------



## zigmeister

One last enigma on this MC053 Foil wannabe. How the f&^k do you adjust the tilt of the saddle?!?! You take the silver clamp/bolt out both side, then this black round thing is just wedged in there severely...no idea how to make it rotate.


----------



## persondude27

foofighter said:


> the plastic i can see it being used as the bladder the cardboard...well that is questionable...bringing up to UCI weight minimum?


I like the squishy part just above the BB.

Thankfully, my FM015 is not that bad. One of my buddies had that frame (the 101?) and he was winning crits on it. He's since upgraded to a BMC, but that's because he now has a real job instead of being a student.

I thought most companies left the bladders in their low-range bikes... what's the weight gain? 10, 20g?


----------



## FTR

Pop out the black section with a screwdriver or similar.
Grease the interface and then re-install.
Should be AOK after that.


----------



## robc in wi

zigmeister said:


> So here is the other package, exact same thing. All of the pieces are 1-1/8". None fit properly of course over the fork. Oh, and an extra bearing in the other box...ok then.


Did you get the part number for that headset from their catalog? That's not even for a carbon steerer fork. The Neco headset I ordered from Miracle for my 008 looks nothing like that. Should have an expander at the top not a star nut. If they screwed up they should ship you right one for free. Might be quicker just to buy one at the LBS although they might be totally guessing as to which one to order for you.


----------



## zigmeister

robc in wi said:


> Did you get the part number for that headset from their catalog? That's not even for a carbon steerer fork. The Neco headset I ordered from Miracle for my 008 looks nothing like that. Should have an expander at the top not a star nut. If they screwed up they should ship you right one for free. Might be quicker just to buy one at the LBS although they might be totally guessing as to which one to order for you.


I sent an email and Mecy Lin, who I've been working with, said they screwed up and sent the wrong part.

They should have sent me this, and I am expecting 2 like I paid for, as well as a rear derailleur hanger that is missing.

road bike headset/bicycle headset - Detailed info for road bike headset/bicycle headset,racing bicycle headsets,road bike headset/bicycle headset,H373 on Alibaba.com

In the meantime, I need to find a headset so I can get this built by this weekend. Anybody have a part number for a Cane Creek or another good brand I can get here quicker?

I have many LBS, but I've found they mostly don't have anything in stock you want.

Thanks


----------



## FTR

Here you go.
Did the searching for you.
Seriously the search function is not that hard to use.

Ratio Tacto Headset | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com

NO.44E

Then again there are people responding here that have not even read the post above theirs so I guess I cant blame you too much.


----------



## robc in wi

Yep, that's the one I have.


----------



## zigmeister

FTR said:


> Pop out the black section with a screwdriver or similar.
> Grease the interface and then re-install.
> Should be AOK after that.



Oh my gosh, those things were pretty well wedged in there. Thanks for the easy fix/tip.

A few clever designs with the seat post clamp and seat clamps. Give them credit, seem pretty solid.


----------



## zigmeister

FTR said:


> Here you go.
> Did the searching for you.
> Seriously the search function is not that hard to use.
> 
> Ratio Tacto Headset | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com
> 
> NO.44E
> 
> Then again there are people responding here that have not even read the post above theirs so I guess I cant blame you too much.


Edit...yeah, OK.

Thanks..

One wouldn't want to assume that a headset for every other chinese made frame would work on this one, although they should theoretically and searching might yield something.


----------



## FTR

zigmeister said:


> Uh, yeah thanks. I'm in the US, get here faster from China waiting. Looking for US based if possible solution. Although $40 for shipping for something in the next few days is likely standard.


Well I have provided you the ones that have been suggested elsewhere in these threads.
You might like to Google that and see what you come up with.

Seriously, the forums are great to get info but you could try helping yourself a little bit.


----------



## kanekikapu

Sure looks like a carbon steer. Just not very well finished.


----------



## mrcreosote

zigmeister said:


> I sent an email and Mecy Lin, who I've been working with, said they screwed up and sent the wrong part.
> 
> They should have sent me this, and I am expecting 2 like I paid for, as well as a rear derailleur hanger that is missing.
> 
> road bike headset/bicycle headset - Detailed info for road bike headset/bicycle headset,racing bicycle headsets,road bike headset/bicycle headset,H373 on Alibaba.com
> 
> In the meantime, I need to find a headset so I can get this built by this weekend. Anybody have a part number for a Cane Creek or another good brand I can get here quicker?
> 
> I have many LBS, but I've found they mostly don't have anything in stock you want.
> 
> Thanks


This?

Ritchey Pro Drop-in Tapered Headset 1.5 to 1-1/8 15mm | eBay


----------



## rdt

*Chinarello group buy...*

MWP is finalizing details regarding pricing... to get it done he needs a hard count of guys who are ready to pull the trigger. It looks like the pricing will be somewhere near $600 for the frame, fork, headset, and shipping depending on the number of frames ordered. The frame, geometry, and paint schemes can be seen here... 

GreatKeen Bike Sport Equipment Co.,Ltd

and here...

Greatkeen Bike Sport equipment co.,LTD(aero seatpost) Small Orders Online Store


PM or VM directly to him asap if you are ready to go.


----------



## robc in wi

FTR said:


> Here you go.
> Did the searching for you.
> Seriously the search function is not that hard to use.
> 
> Ratio Tacto Headset | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com
> 
> NO.44E
> 
> Then again there are people responding here that have not even read the post above theirs so I guess I cant blame you too much.


If that is a reference to me I believe that we posted at the same time. I use the advanced search frequently and yes it does work well.


----------



## FTR

robc in wi said:


> If that is a reference to me I believe that we posted at the same time. I use the advanced search frequently and yes it does work well.


Sorry Rob, not aimed at you.


----------



## sandman77

rdt said:


> MWP is finalizing details regarding pricing... to get it done he needs a hard count of guys who are ready to pull the trigger. It looks like the pricing will be somewhere near $600 for the frame, fork, headset, and shipping depending on the number of frames ordered. The frame, geometry, and paint schemes can be seen here...
> 
> GreatKeen Bike Sport Equipment Co.,Ltd
> 
> and here...
> 
> Greatkeen Bike Sport equipment co.,LTD(aero seatpost) Small Orders Online Store
> 
> 
> PM or VM directly to him asap if you are ready to go.


That's only $25 less than I was quoted for a one off order. Count me out at that price. I was really hoping for under $500.


----------



## roSSco8

*Martina from Dengfu?*

I'm looking into purchasing a fm098 from dengfu. 4-5 days after sending them an email I get a response back from someone going by the name Martina saying she's Tony assistant...After letting her know what I wanted she sent me an invoice and a paypal account I'm a little leary about (tony at greatkeen dot com dot cn) this is not the paypal address they have listed on their website... has anyone dealt with Martina is this legit?


----------



## russd32

russd32 said:


> Well, I've been hoping to join the fun with an FM028 frame but I must smell or something. First I emailed the address on the site and every heard from them. Then I chatted with Lucky Ding on Alibaba and she said that email address wasn't any good so I sent the email to another address. Lucky got me pricing, great! I emailed Lucky again to make sure everything is in stock and get a final price with shipping and paypal and it's been about 3 days and I haven't heard a peep. WTF?
> 
> Maybe this is just a sign that it's not meant to be. Who else has the same frame? RB002 on Carbonzone...any others?


Hahaha! i just got an email back from Dengfu answering my initial email. Sorry...a little late bro.


----------



## jordo_99

rdt said:


> MWP is finalizing details regarding pricing... to get it done he needs a hard count of guys who are ready to pull the trigger. It looks like the pricing will be somewhere near $600 for the frame, fork, headset, and shipping depending on the number of frames ordered. The frame, geometry, and paint schemes can be seen here...
> 
> GreatKeen Bike Sport Equipment Co.,Ltd


I appreciate the effort from you two. Unfortunately, $60 off just isn't enough of a discount for me to buy early. If it got down to $550 I'd seriously consider buying one and at $500 I would in a heartbeat...but it's just not worth it for my current situation. I'll wait and pay full-price when I have more need for it later this/next season.


----------



## Kareltje71

I would like to participate in the group buy, but I can not PM. How cal I solve this?


----------



## Seneb

foofighter said:


> the plastic i can see it being used as the bladder the cardboard...well that is questionable...bringing up to UCI weight minimum?


FWIW, on my Colnago CLX (made in Taiwan), you can see some plastic from the molding process when looking into the top tube through the head tube.


----------



## Kareltje71

Just found the VM methode, solved!


----------



## Hiro11

kanekikapu said:


> Sure looks like a carbon steer. Just not very well finished.


You actually want the steerer to be roughed up a bit to decrease stem bolt torque and have the races adhere a bit better.


----------



## Hiro11

MTBMaven said:


> I may be missing something here zigmeister but it looks like you have a tapered fork/headset. The upper bearings will be 1 1/8" and the lower will 1 1/2". Assuming this is the case don't just go get another 1 1/8" headset. If you go to your LBS to get another headset just have them install the lower race on the fork for you.


My LBS actually didn't have a crown race setter large enough for this fork (!). This surprised me as I thought 1.5" lower bearings were pretty mainstream these days and this shop serves a lot of high end customers. Anyway, the mechanic recommended I buy a length of 1.5" diameter PVC pipe and do it myself holding the fork in the air and hitting the pipe with a rubber mallet. The pipe is easy to find in 5' lengths in any hardware store (I cut it to about 2' long with a hacksaw). It worked well, cost about $2 and now I have a tool to do it again if I need to. I posted a picture of this earlier in this thread. Give it a try, it's pretty easy.


----------



## jrielley

I was really hoping to get a lower price than that. I have been searching hongfu, Keen, E-Baygoods, carbonzone and that $600 seems like the most expensive. Is it that much because of the paint job and stuff? Or is it just that much better built than the others? I was really hoping to get in on the buy but I will keep thinking about it but I think $600 is a bit too much now, unless it includes bars, stem, etc. as a package deal.


----------



## DudeMtn

roSSco8 said:


> I'm looking into purchasing a fm098 from dengfu. 4-5 days after sending them an email I get a response back from someone going by the name Martina saying she's Tony assistant...After letting her know what I wanted she sent me an invoice and a paypal account I'm a little leary about (tony at greatkeen dot com dot cn) this is not the paypal address they have listed on their website... has anyone dealt with Martina is this legit?


Can't comment on Martina as I dealt only with "Jenny" when I bought my FMO15 in fall of 2010 from DengFu. However, I believe that is the PayPal account that was used. Again, I will say I have been very pleased/impressed with the entire process through today. I have been riding my bike enough by now to feel very comfortable that I would do it again without question.

On a side note, I designed some decals for my rig and had Marco Pollo draw them up last summer. I finally got around to ordering them a few weeks ago and they came in yesterday. I applied them to the bike and I really like it. Quality is good and they are exactly what we decided on and agreed to. He even sent a few extras! Will take pics and post soon.


----------



## MTBAlex

Yea, the savings wasn't what I expected as well. If they go under $600, i would be interested.


----------



## Vee

DudeMtn said:


> Can't comment on Martina as I dealt only with "Jenny" when I bought my FMO15 in fall of 2010 from DengFu. However, I believe that is the PayPal account that was used. Again, I will say I have been very pleased/impressed with the entire process through today. I have been riding my bike enough by now to feel very comfortable that I would do it again without question.
> 
> On a side note, I designed some decals for my rig and had Marco Pollo draw them up last summer. I finally got around to ordering them a few weeks ago and they came in yesterday. I applied them to the bike and I really like it. Quality is good and they are exactly what we decided on and agreed to. He even sent a few extras! Will take pics and post soon.


Oh come on! What a tease... get those pictures up ASAP!


----------



## rdt

*Group buy*

We don't have a hard price yet as it is related to number of bikes. However, let me clarify additional thought regarding that price estimate...

It includes the extra fee for paypay. If you dont use PP, you will knock off about $25-30.

I just looked at the Pinarello frame at Miracle Trading. The list pricing is for black frame and clearcoat. All paint and decals are added costs. My estimate to reproduce the same paint scheme at MT would add $75-100 to their base cost. That makes the GK a better deal as you dont have to hope you will get the final product you want. 

MWP can speak to the frame quality from his own experience. From what i understand its a great product. 

At the end of the day the group buy may not generate a deal at 30-40% off list. But even if its 10-15%, it's a few dollars less out of my pocket I can use for something else.

Everyone has to do what works for them and fits their own expectations.

Let's see what the bottonline is that we can get from GK.


----------



## sandman77

rdt said:


> We don't have a hard price yet as it is related to number of bikes. However, let me clarify additional thought regarding that price estimate...
> 
> It includes the extra fee for paypay. If you dont use PP, you will knock off about $25-30.
> 
> I just looked at the Pinarello frame at Miracle Trading. The list pricing is for black frame and clearcoat. All paint and decals are added costs. My estimate to reproduce the same paint scheme at MT would add $75-100 to their base cost. That makes the GK a better deal as you dont have to hope you will get the final product you want.
> 
> MWP can speak to the frame quality from his own experience. From what i understand its a great product.
> 
> At the end of the day the group buy may not generate a deal at 30-40% off list. But even if its 10-15%, it's a few dollars less out of my pocket I can use for something else.
> 
> Everyone has to do what works for them and fits their own expectations.
> 
> Let's see what the bottonline is that we can get from GK.


I got a quote from greatkeenbikes for the exact same package last week for $655 including delivery and PayPal fees.


----------



## timsen




----------



## Vee

timsen said:


> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8QrEj55Ef3s/T1jXvZVZf6I/AAAAAAAAALI/wXFfy9XVJWo/s720/IMG_4624.JPG


Looks great...


----------



## TRIPLE1050

that looks really good!


----------



## TRIPLE1050

*Mc 008 miracle*

this is mine









This is late at night just when it was done. I will post better ones in the weekend. Very happy with the ride. Plenty stiff for me and very comfy.


----------



## pandoro

timsen said:


>


BELLA BELLA!!! : Thumbsup:: Thumbsup:: Thumbsup:

che dici CANGUROTTO!!!: P: P


----------



## GiantTCR

Going to try and get greatkeen to do a Pina up like this:


----------



## Teo

I'm interested in the group buy but can't PM. Can you guys PM me. Thanks.


----------



## Teo

will the group buy also include the seatpost? Sorry if it's a stupid question


----------



## squirrelflip21

Teo said:


> will the group buy also include the seatpost? Sorry if it's a stupid question


I'd think so since their web site shows:

Carbon Road bike frame/Bicycle Frames +fork+seatpost+headset +clamp 

Buy carbon road frame, sky, Pinarello prince, wholesale! Pinarello sky aero D2 3k+green Carbon Road bike frame/Bicycle Frames +fork+seatpost+headset +clamp RFMS8102 at Aliexpress.com


----------



## the mayor

roSSco8 said:


> I'm looking into purchasing a fm098 from dengfu. 4-5 days after sending them an email I get a response back from someone going by the name Martina saying she's Tony assistant...After letting her know what I wanted she sent me an invoice and a paypal account I'm a little leary about (tony at greatkeen dot com dot cn) this is not the paypal address they have listed on their website... has anyone dealt with Martina is this legit?


Per my post a few pages back...
After emailing Tony and not hearing back....I got a email from "Martina" 3 weeks later.
I had already bought elsewhere.
I hope it works out for you.
You may want to go to the Dengfu site and use the email info posted there to confirm?


----------



## DudeMtn

*My FM015 - Design Mine, Decals Marco Pollo pt.1*

I designed these last summer and had Marco mock them up for me. I finally ordered a few weeks ago, got them in a few days ago and applied. Quality is good and I am pleased. Marco's communication is great and he is easy to work with. with the translation, it takes patience and attention to detail. the word "design" was misspelled on the decal at the bottom of the down tube. interestingly, I remember someone prior having the same issue, so pay attention if you get one or anything else with words . To his credit, he is sending me 2 new ones as well as having sent several extras in the original shipment of various ones I designed.

My nickname from childhood is "hair" and I went with a "crosshair" theme as you see, using the target as the zero. The "6" is the elemental number for carbon as many of you know, the double diamond is reference to the ski runs we ski here in CO as well as the obvious connection between carbon and diamonds. i have more decals, some red some white and some both but I think this is enough and didn't want to overdo it. 

Cheers.


----------



## DudeMtn

*Part 2*

More.........


----------



## DudeMtn

*Part 3*

Spelling......


----------



## zigmeister

mrcreosote said:


> This?
> 
> Ritchey Pro Drop-in Tapered Headset 1.5 to 1-1/8 15mm | eBay


Thanks. That is nearly identical to the Reacto Tacto headset measurements. 

That looks like a reasonable option actually.

I've given up on Miracle and am just trying to get my money refunded for the difference of the extra headset I paid for, along with the missing correct one and rear hanger. They keep saying the ones I show in the photo will work.

Yet, in the same email chain, they say it should be the H373 model. The ones they sent are cup/bearing and 1-1/8" all the way both ends. But, they keep saying it is the right one and to take it to my bike shop..haha. I'm past the point that it is a language barrier issue..I've sent plenty of photos of the problem.

Thanks for that link.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

"DudeMtn"

You have done really well there with the decals ... :thumbsup: and love the full matte black frame ...

_PM sent ... Cheers_


----------



## zigmeister

Since I race, I don't think I want a Bullseye on my bike...that means kamikaze to me!

Looks good though, and originality I like!


----------



## tallywacker

DudeMtn,

Had to chuckle at the decals as I thought they were goofy at first, but they look really good on the bike. I like how it turned out. Is there a story behind the decals? i.e. You're in the crosshairs of name brand elitist riders for riding a China frame?


----------



## Chadwick890

tallywacker said:


> DudeMtn,
> 
> Had to chuckle at the decals as I thought they were goofy at first, but they look really good on the bike. I like how it turned out. Is there a story behind the decals? i.e. You're in the crosshairs of name brand elitist riders for riding a China frame?


You clearly just had eyes for the pictures. Cause he explains the reason behind the crosshairs in his post.

This continues to emphasise my point about people seeing pictures and thinking OOO Shiny without bothering to read.


----------



## Teo

I sure hope this group by goes through, cause I already stated buying components.


----------



## cyclist_sg

This is my FM757 mould PATRICK Sportec 2012. I had a maiden start to this bike as I won a local bike challenge event on it.










The wheelset you can see is a semi-custom wheelset as the hubs were ordered from Taiwan while rims are available from eBay. Total wheelset weight w/o QR is 1.13kg (tubular).

This set up has a total combined weight of 7.1kg with Chorus 11 compact groupset.

Pat


----------



## skoyrtis

cyclist_sg said:


> The wheelset you can see is a semi-custom wheelset as the hubs were ordered from Taiwan while rims are available from eBay. Total wheelset weight w/o QR is 1.13kg (tubular).
> 
> This set up has a total combined weight of 7.1kg with Chorus 11 compact groupset.
> 
> Pat


what hubs-spokes did you use? the rims are 38mm right?
nice looking bike btw


----------



## cyclist_sg

skoyrtis said:


> what hubs-spokes did you use? the rims are 38mm right?
> nice looking bike btw


Thanks for the compliments. I ordered Chosen hubs and used DT Aerolites for spokes, matched off with blue alloy nipples. 

Actually this prototype wheelset is in services for over 2 year without failure. This is a testament to China/Taiwan made stuff if proper put together.

Oh yes, those are the typical 38mm 12K carbon rims.

Pat


----------



## Hiro11

I've ridden my MC053 enough at this point to firm up my opinions of its ride. In a word: great. It's particularly impressive out of the saddle and in carving corners. The front end is extremely stiff which makes it very stable in hitting apexes at high speed. Out of the saddle, the tight chainstays and stiffness of the frame make it very efficient. Surprisingly, the bike is actually pretty comfortable on rough Illinois roads. It's not a plush endurance bike, but for a crit/road race bike it doesn't beat you up. Overall I'm very happy: it's well made, light (a little over 16 pounds), rides beautifully and looks great (in my opinion). Best $500 I've spent on bike schwag. Here's a snap of my close-to-final setup:

<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/FPEtT5UTLnCd0Yg2dVt_ttMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2YDyHWY_0pU/T1z8SC9AxNI/AAAAAAAAJWk/bLxHs9XKFn4/s640/IMAG0399.jpg" height="383" width="640" /></a>


----------



## RanGer498

Hiro11 said:


> I just posted this over on Velobuild:
> 
> OK, got the stuff today. Matte MC053 (Scott Foil clone) from Miracle Trade. Same exact frame as the one Apachesix just posted (great choice!). I also bought HB003 bars and ST002 stem. First impressions are very favorable. We'll see as I build it up.
> 
> Frame only:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3K weave looks good. The headtube is seriously beefy with a 1.5" bottom bearing. Fork crown is a beast, I need a new caliper bolt. All of the internal cables have integral liners which are neatly done.
> 
> With all of the parts I'll use to build this up:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scrounged Ultegra 6600, brand new Ultegra WH6700 wheels, Miracle Trade carbon bars and stem. Old Selle Italia SLR. I don't have a lot of money to blow on bike stuff. Total build cost will be less than $1,700 (which my wife is just OK with).
> 
> Here's a close up of the seatpost clamping mechanism on this bike. It's really well engineered:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pardon my foot. Basically, it's an alloy (carbon?) expanding wedge that clamps the post back against the solid back of the seat tube. Many bikes use a similar design and it seems like a good way to prevent slipping and improve durability.
> 
> Weights:
> Frame (size 54): 1,190 (with clamp) 1,100 without. The clamp is pretty beefy.
> Fork: 460 (uncut)
> Seatpost: 240
> Stem: 140 (100MM, looks like a 6 degree rise)
> Bars: 215 (240s)
> 
> All are about what I expected, not super light but perfectly acceptable.
> 
> I mounted the wheels just to check clearance, something I was a bit concerned about. Plenty of room with 23MM Conti GP4000s. Wheels mount up straight and centered, frame looks true. RD hanger is a thick piece of alloy. Carbon dropouts with zero alloy (I think).
> 
> I bought three of the Neco headsets and they seem to roll smoothly. Not a hint of alloy in the headtube of this frame, is that standard these days?
> 
> Overall, this is a pretty tough looking frame. Everything looks a bit overbuilt and durable. Hopefully it will last. The bars, stem and seatpost have integral sections of roughened epoxy to increase friction which is a swell feature. Will build up this weekend.


can you or anyone post or send me a link to where to buy this frame im looking to do this build also.
thanks


----------



## apachesix

RanGer498 said:


> can you or anyone post or send me a link to where to buy this frame im looking to do this build also.
> thanks


RanGer, I got mine here: 2012 Full carbon Aero bike frame AC053 - Detailed info for 2012 Full carbon Aero bike frame AC053,Aero bike,2012 Full carbon Aero bike frame AC053,SP-AC053 on Alibaba.com and corresponded with Janice at the following email: [email protected]

You can also find it here: MIRACLE TRADE (HK) CO., LIMITED - Sporting goods,health-care article

I am still building (waiting on a stem and cables) and will post pics when done.


----------



## Banditgrrr

*Correct Sizing*

I've been having a difficult time trying to determine if the 58cm FM201 is large enough for me. I currently have a 59cm BH which fits me great. I'd like to know if someone more experienced here can help determine if the 58cm will fit based on the measurements I have from the BH.

Here is the geometry info on my 59cm BH:




















Here are the specs I found on the GreatKeen FM201:




















If someone could help determine if the 58cm would fit, it would be greatly appreciated. I'd hate to miss out on the buy wondering if it's the right size.


----------



## apachesix

Banditgrrr said:


> I've been having a difficult time trying to determine if the 58cm FM201 is large enough for me. I currently have a 59cm BH which fits me great. I'd like to know if someone more experienced here can help determine if the 58cm will fit based on the measurements I have from the BH.
> 
> If someone could help determine if the 58cm would fit, it would be greatly appreciated. I'd hate to miss out on the buy wondering if it's the right size.


My initial guess is that you would have to add 20mm more of spacers below the stem and 20-30mm in stem length than you have now to have a fit in the same neighborhood.

If you are already running a lot of spacers and a real long stem then this frame may be a no go, if not then it might work just fine.


----------



## maxxevv

Banditgrrr said:


> I've been having a difficult time trying to determine if the 58cm FM201 is large enough for me. I currently have a 59cm BH which fits me great. I'd like to know if someone more experienced here can help determine if the 58cm will fit based on the measurements I have from the BH.
> 
> Here is the geometry info on my 59cm BH:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are the specs I found on the GreatKeen FM201:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If someone could help determine if the 58cm would fit, it would be greatly appreciated. I'd hate to miss out on the buy wondering if it's the right size.


Based on the geometry charts, the FM201 is a fair bit smaller than your current frame. About 25mm in TT length and 20mm in HT height. 

Not quite ideal a setup unless you're using a short stem in the range of 100mm and has zero stack of spacers under the stem on your current bike ? 20mm more is a fair amount for spacers and a 120mm stem too.

Hope it helps.


----------



## Coolhand

Locked for review, will reopen after review is done.


----------



## Coolhand

*Moderators Note*

Well, after reading this thread- I could have given out multiple posting vacations, and plenty of infractions. However, in a rare act of mercy, everyone gets a pass- *this time*. I have nuked the offending sections to get this thread back to its unlabeled/generic/open mold Ebay/Chinese carbon frame thread purpose. 

However, lets be clear about the following:

1. Group Buys were not allowed in 5.0 and are not allowed in 6.0. If a manufacturer wants to buy an ad they can. 

2. Counterfeit labeled frames for sale are not to be linked to. Please keep them out of the thread as well. 

3. Non-counterfeit frames are *perfectly fine* to link to, discuss, post, ect. That's what the thread is for.

4. From this point forward, trolling this thread will result in bad things. If someone violates the above rules, let me know and it will be handled. Don't like the generic open mold frames, then avoid this thread. 

5. This isn't a debate, feel free to PM if you wish. Thread hijacks will end poorly.

/thread is reopened.


----------



## flyjoe

Thanks Coolhand.


----------



## Crappymonkey

Awesome. Thread back on track.

I still haven't seen much on the 031 (from Miracle or Ican). Has anybody had any good or bad experiences with this frame?

Also, any updates on the MC-055?


----------



## flyjoe

Duplicate post deleted. Some weird time rift happening in here.


----------



## JackDaniels

Since my other bikes are in a state of disarray, I raced my fm015 to a top 5 finish in a cat 1/2 crit yesterday. Pretty sure it was the only generic bike on the course and it performed just fine. Over 3500 miles on it so far...

Edit. Thanks for cleaning the counterfeit stuff off this thread...


----------



## zigmeister

Hiro11 said:


> I've ridden my MC053 enough at this point to firm up my opinions of its ride. In a word: great. It's particularly impressive out of the saddle and in carving corners. The front end is extremely stiff which makes it very stable in hitting apexes at high speed. Out of the saddle, the tight chainstays and stiffness of the frame make it very efficient. Surprisingly, the bike is actually pretty comfortable on rough Illinois roads. It's not a plush endurance bike, but for a crit/road race bike it doesn't beat you up. Overall I'm very happy: it's well made, light (a little over 16 pounds), rides beautifully and looks great (in my opinion). Best $500 I've spent on bike schwag. Here's a snap of my close-to-final setup:
> 
> <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/FPEtT5UTLnCd0Yg2dVt_ttMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2YDyHWY_0pU/T1z8SC9AxNI/AAAAAAAAJWk/bLxHs9XKFn4/s640/IMAG0399.jpg" height="383" width="640" /></a>


Thanks for the update. Unfortunately, mine is still hanging on my work stand waiting for a headset to show up. Ordered a few online and waiting for delivery...sigh.

Hopefully by the weekend I will have complete build photos. I have plenty of un-boxing frame photos. Will put a post up of those.


----------



## squirrelflip21

JackDaniels said:


> Since my other bikes are in a state of disarray, I raced my fm015 to a top 5 finish in a cat 1/2 crit yesterday. Pretty sure it was the only generic bike on the course and it performed just fine. Over 3500 miles on it so far...
> 
> Edit. Thanks for cleaning the counterfeit stuff off this thread...


What size is your bike? I was checking the Geometry and want to make sure that it's true:
HF-FM015 - $425.00 : E-hongfu-Bikes

Like usually a bike with a 53 cm top tube has a seat tube of 50cm. 

Thanks!


----------



## WTFcyclist

Coolhand said:


> 2. Counterfeit labeled frames for sale are not to be linked to. Please keep them out of the thread as well.
> 
> 3. Non-counterfeit frames are *perfectly fine* to link to, discuss, post, ect. That's what the thread is for.


I hate counterfeit goods. But my question is: what is a counterfeit frame? Clearly, the Pinarello (Orbea, or whatever) look-alike frame with a label "Pinarello" is a counterfeit. :nono::nono:

*Do you think the Pinarello (Orbea, Cervelo, or whatever) look-alike frame (without any label or with the label 'Chinarello - Dogpoo') is a counterfeit?*









I have a plan to create my own brand for fun and putting something like "Chinalgo, Chinadale, Chinalized, Chianchi, Chivelo, Chi Rosa" on the down tube; then I'll put a sticker "Made in USA." 

-----------------------------------------------------------
Edited: Adding the meaning of "counterfeit"
counterfeit - definition of counterfeit by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
v. coun·ter·feit·ed, coun·ter·feit·ing, coun·ter·feits
v.tr.
1. *To make a copy of, usually with the intent to defraud*; forge: counterfeits money.
2. To make a pretense of; feign: counterfeited interest in the story.
v.intr.
1. To carry on a deception; dissemble.
2. To make fraudulent copies of something valuable.
adj.
1. Made in imitation of what is genuine with the intent to defraud: a counterfeit dollar bill.
2. Simulated; feigned: a counterfeit illness.
n.
A fraudulent imitation or facsimile.


----------



## DudeMtn

*Moderator?*

Am I the only person that experiences this? When I log on - almost every time there are posts that appear as a few minutes ago, a few hours ago - then a bunch of posts from 6 days ago or 3 weeks ago. Is it my desk top, lap top and iPad all or what is going on with that??

Thanks.


----------



## beston

I think that the intention of 'deception' is a major part of what make something counterfeit. The act of labeling a open mould frame as if it were the product of another manufacturer would constitute deception.

Labeling a frame as 'dogpoo' may be an accurate description (depending on your viewpoint), but certainly would not lead to confusion as to the company selling the bike.


----------



## rover19

WTFcyclist said:


> I hate counterfeit goods. But my question is: what is a counterfeit frame? Clearly, the Pinarello (Orbea, or whatever) look-alike frame with a label "Pinarello" is a counterfeit. :nono::nono:
> 
> *Do you think the Pinarello (Orbea, Cervelo, or whatever) look-alike frame (without any label or with the label 'Chinarello - Dogpoo') is a counterfeit?*
> 
> I have a plan to create my own brand for fun and putting something like "Chinalgo, Chinadale, Chinalized, Chianchi, Chivelo, Chi Rosa" on the down tube; then I'll put a sticker "Made in USA."


It's possible (though unlikely) that the Pinarello frame is protected as trade dress due to the distinctive curves. 

They actually do have a patent application in for their unique design: Patent US20100096832 - Turbular frame for bicycles, particularly with classic diamond shape - Google Patents. It's conceivable that producing a generic frame could be patent infringement if they copy all of the structural elements, (assuming the patent is granted). 

Unless the logo is being slapped on an imitation product, there's no trademark violation. In this context, you'd have to have one company passing its products off as the products of another. Fake logo = trademark violation. No fake logo = no trademark violation. In this context, everyone knows that it's not the real deal. 

BUT - the real question is - *where can I get a bike made up to look like the Chinarello Dogpoo?* How much does that paint job cost? Why do they not offer that as a standard option? I WANT!



*I am a lawyer, but I haven't really researched this and I'm talking out of my ass.


----------



## mfuchs

Coolhand said:


> 2. Counterfeit labeled frames for sale are not to be linked to. <b>Please keep them out of the thread as well.<b>
> 
> 
> 
> .



So just to completely understand the rules If I post a picture of my bike I will be subject to punishment.


----------



## rover19

rover19 said:


> ...
> 
> Unless the logo is being slapped on an imitation product, there's no trademark violation. In this context, you'd have to have one company passing its products off as the products of another. Fake logo = trademark violation. No fake logo = no trademark violation. In this context, everyone knows that it's not the real deal.
> ...
> 
> *I am a lawyer, but I haven't really researched this and I'm talking out of my ass.


So I just went and leafed through McCarthy on Trademarks, and I really don't think that the Chinarello would be infringing any trademarks. It's most likely a parody and there is very little likelihood of confusion (again, in my talking-out-of-my-ass opinion). 

/threadjack


----------



## trailrunner68

rover19 said:


> I
> BUT - the real question is - *where can I get a bike made up to look like the Chinarello Dogpoo?* How much does that paint job cost? Why do they not offer that as a standard option? I WANT!


I want one with the "Chinarello" on it. I don't want the "Dogpoo."


----------



## trailrunner68

maxxevv said:


> Based on the geometry charts, the FM201 is a fair bit smaller than your current frame. About 25mm in TT length and 20mm in HT height.
> 
> Not quite ideal a setup unless you're using a short stem in the range of 100mm and has zero stack of spacers under the stem on your current bike ? 20mm more is a fair amount for spacers and a 120mm stem too.
> 
> Hope it helps.


The seat tube angle is also slacker with the BH. We would have to know whether he is using a setback post and where on the rails the saddle is clamped to know if there will be issues in that department. For example, if the BH is using a setback post with the saddle slammed back on the rails then it will be difficult to the get same position with the FM201, but if he is using a non-setback post with the saddle in the middle of the rails then there would not be a problem.


----------



## Coolhand

*Moderators Note*



mfuchs said:


> So just to completely understand the rules If I post a picture of my bike I will be subject to punishment.


Yes- it its a true counterfeit with the stickers and everything. 

But, if you are one of the clever blokes with the "parody" stickers, post away. The image posted by *WTFcyclist* is a good example of clever bloke's approach to this. Also enjoyed seeing some of the creative "brands" people have invented which is tied to something that inspired them.


----------



## WTFcyclist

rover19 said:


> BUT - the real question is - *where can I get a bike made up to look like the Chinarello Dogpoo?* How much does that paint job cost? Why do they not offer that as a standard option? I WANT!


You should beware of some righteous dudes who claimed "Pinarello Lookalikes" = Counterfeit Pinarellos.  The cheapest frameset with gimmick wavy fork is $325 from Hongfu (Flybike). I don't know about the paint job.
HF-FM001+FO001 - $325.00 : E-hongfu-Bikes








You can put "Chinarello - Freethought" (as opposed to Pinarello Dogma).

Personally, I hate that stupid gimmick wavy fork and I will not buy it. I think it's better to create and slap your own brand to the frame, or putting your wife's name, ex-girlfriend name, one-night stand, or whatever. My brand is probably "WTF Cycling" (Wide Tire Fits Cycling) - "Made in USA."


----------



## JackDaniels

squirrelflip21 said:


> What size is your bike? I was checking the Geometry and want to make sure that it's true:
> HF-FM015 - $425.00 : E-hongfu-Bikes
> 
> Like usually a bike with a 53 cm top tube has a seat tube of 50cm.
> 
> Thanks!


My bike is a 58cm, I don't really know that actual dimensions. There's a picture in the picture thread.


----------



## FTR

squirrelflip21 said:


> What size is your bike? I was checking the Geometry and want to make sure that it's true:
> HF-FM015 - $425.00 : E-hongfu-Bikes
> 
> Like usually a bike with a 53 cm top tube has a seat tube of 50cm.
> 
> Thanks!


Not necessarily.
Perhaps a compact design bike does.
For example my Moots Compact has a 55cm ST and a 58cm ETT.
But my new bike will be built with a 58cm ST and a 58cm ETT.
Both have sloping top tubes.
The 58/58 will have a 1cm longer HT (and therefore 1cm less of spacers) to allow this.


----------



## Eldnur

Quoted from above ... "Personally, I hate that stupid gimmick wavy fork and I will not buy it"

Thank goodness someone finally said it. I have thought since those Pinarellos came out that they are about the ugliest things on the market. That wavy "left in the oven too long" fork, and chainstays, are just flat out ugly.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

Eldnur said:


> Quoted from above ... "Personally, I hate that stupid gimmick wavy fork and I will not buy it"
> 
> Thank goodness someone finally said it. I have thought since those Pinarellos came out that they are about the ugliest things on the market. That wavy "left in the oven too long" fork, and chainstays, are just flat out ugly.


+1 ...

I too do not understand how one can appreciate that design of 'that' fork. I think it is only because it is Pinerello who came up with it ... and 'some' consumers will just accept it as it is designed by Pinerello and not some Chinese frame manufacturer ... 

On another note, has the thread (that I was reading a few hours ago) ... _posted by some forum members who were disgruntled that there are riders out there who were willing to buy look-alike frames from China and putting on household names on them_ ... been removed? It was quite an interesting thread to read, and I did not have enough time to finish reading it, and was hoping to do so now, but am not able to locate it ...


----------



## PaxRomana

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> +1 ...
> 
> I too do not understand how one can appreciate that design of 'that' fork. I think it is only because it is Pinerello who came up with it ... and 'some' consumers will just accept it as it is designed by Pinerello and not some Chinese frame manufacturer ...
> 
> On another note, has the thread (that I was reading a few hours ago) ... _posted by some forum members who were disgruntled that there are riders out there who were willing to buy look-alike frames from China and putting on household names on them_ ... been removed? It was quite an interesting thread to read, and I did not have enough time to finish reading it, and was hoping to do so now, but am not able to locate it ...


That thread was deleted. And, it was not about the riders who put household names on Chinarellos but rather the purchasers of complete counterfeits, down to the decals and everything.


----------



## sandman77

PaxRomana said:


> That thread was deleted. And, it was not about the riders who put household names on Chinarellos but rather the purchasers of complete counterfeits, down to the decals and everything.


I think he was referring to the thread that was started by people against that sort of thing.


----------



## Backflush

Wow, I can't believe how nice the RFM201 frame looks. Very realistic and would fool any untrained eye.


----------



## Bridgey

trailrunner68 said:


> I want one with the "Chinarello" on it. I don't want the "Dogpoo."


I had a similar issue. I called mine Chinarello Mad-Dog. But others I thought of were Chinarello: Chogma, Catma, Wild-Dog, Dogman, Bogma. I guess the list can go on. But like you didn't want dogpoo. 

For those that missed it earlier, the 56cm Chinarello is really a 54cm Pinarello. Exact in every way, geometry and all. Except the seat tube is 56cm vs 54cm. I am assuming the 54 is really a 52, etc.


----------



## Crappymonkey

MT-MC055 is on the Miracle site

2012 new carbon frame/2012 AERO design carbon frame/ carbon frame in Di2/AERO frame in S5 updated version - Detailed info for 2012 new carbon frame/2012 AERO design carbon frame/ carbon frame in Di2/AERO frame in S5 updated version,carbon frame MT-MC


----------



## WTFcyclist

Wow they have their own decal designer! 
MIRACLE carbon frame, road bike frame - Detailed info for MIRACLE carbon frame, road bike frame,frames of carbon bicycle,MIRACLE carbon frame, road bike frame,MT-MC015 spl,MT-MO007 on Alibaba.com


> miracle full carbon road frame , now in hot promotion . (all of my company's products can make your own brand. we have our own designer . low price , good quality , welcome customers to come to the next single)


How am I going to fool my customer (myself) with "Made in USA" sticker on my frame if I outsourced even the decal design job? :mad2::mad2:


----------



## Chadwick890

Crappymonkey said:


> MT-MC055 is on the Miracle site
> 
> 2012 new carbon frame/2012 AERO design carbon frame/ carbon frame in Di2/AERO frame in S5 updated version - Detailed info for 2012 new carbon frame/2012 AERO design carbon frame/ carbon frame in Di2/AERO frame in S5 updated version,carbon frame MT-MC


If only i had the money...let alone the components lol. I would buy that, but im not a huge fan of the Seat post. I think it would be better if you could pick which hole you wanted and get that distance in a single seat post instead of both there cause lets face it. Saddles arent that wide that if you like your saddle all the way back on the rear circle hole thing it just wont work.


----------



## pietervdw

Crappymonkey said:


> MT-MC055 is on the Miracle site
> 
> 2012 new carbon frame/2012 AERO design carbon frame/ carbon frame in Di2/AERO frame in S5 updated version - Detailed info for 2012 new carbon frame/2012 AERO design carbon frame/ carbon frame in Di2/AERO frame in S5 updated version,carbon frame MT-MC


Seriously light at 108g!

This is awesome!


----------



## nagge

WTFcyclist said:


> Wow they have their own decal designer!
> MIRACLE carbon frame, road bike frame - Detailed info for MIRACLE carbon frame, road bike frame,frames of carbon bicycle,MIRACLE carbon frame, road bike frame,MT-MC015 spl,MT-MO007 on Alibaba.com
> 
> How am I going to fool my customer (myself) with "Made in USA" sticker on my frame if I outsourced even the decal design job? :mad2::mad2:


That is sweet looking, a bit early for next years build but if there's nothing else presented before winter, that frame just got to the top of my list.


----------



## Crappymonkey

Here's some MC055 pricing from Miracle....

"the price of the frame MC055 and the fork is 650usd/set in clear coating finish in one sample

you want it finish in Matt need add 30usd again

if you order about 5 set the price in 520usd/set clear coating finish

we usually shipping by EMS，the cost shipping is 85usd to your lactation

we accept paypal and bank transfer

now we have the size 54cm in stock if you interesting in it we will can shipping it for you soon"


----------



## csneom4a1

Just joined after reading some of the 5.0 thread, this thread and the picture thread. I have had my road bike since 04 but am now looking to build my own for the first time.

I was going to place an order with wwww dot e-hongfu-bikes dot com , but want to make sure they are still good to go. Anyone have any experience with them recently?

Also, how fast is miracle trade in replying to emails from the website? Can I expect a response in 24 hours?

Thanks for all the info, comments and pictures from this thread and others. I have found them extremely helpful.


----------



## apachesix

WTFcyclist said:


> Wow they have their own decal designer!
> How am I going to fool my customer (myself) with "Made in USA" sticker on my frame if I outsourced even the decal design job? :mad2::mad2:


Have them change the decal to "Assembled in USA"! :idea:


----------



## Coolhand

Or "Let's go crazy Broadway style!"


----------



## zigmeister

FTR said:


> Here you go.
> Did the searching for you.
> Seriously the search function is not that hard to use.
> 
> Ratio Tacto Headset | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com
> 
> NO.44E
> 
> Then again there are people responding here that have not even read the post above theirs so I guess I cant blame you too much.


As reference for people who think this headset will work with a MC053 (Scott Foil type) frame, it will not fit properly.

The diameter is .2-.3mm too small on both bearings when sitting in the frame upper/lower cups.

If you tighten it up real well, it holds, but this is not a good solution. There is obviously a chance of slight movement/play which I'm not comfortable with.

I'm waiting for the Ritchey 1.5"-1 1/8" drop-in headset to arrive to see how well it fits. The bottom bearing is supposed to be 52mm, not 51.8mm as the Ratio-Tacto headset. I'm hoping the .2mm diameter difference will make it tight in the bottom. The top bearing is supposed to be the same diameter as the Ratio. So, I'm likely going to use my CDale Supersix top bearing. Both the Supersix lower/upper bearings fit like a glove on the MC053 frame. But, the race crown is an issue. CDale uses a smaller diameter/machined fork/crown. So it will not fit my current fork unless I sand the heck out of the fork diameter to make it fit over. Not looking to do that.

It's a whole production what I have going on here of frustration and extra costs associated with a simple headset that Miracle forgot to send. Actually, they sent two headset, but they were completely wrong. Now I'm going into the $200 range of extra stuff to try and get this setup, all primarily due to them not sending a headset/compression part.

So, now I'm experimenting and testing different setups and solutions to try and get a good fit.

I'll report back later once I have this completely built with finding etc..


----------



## Hiro11

Thanks, Coolhand. Very reasonable approach. This thread was getting a bit out of hand.


----------



## trailrunner68

Bridgey said:


> I had a similar issue. I called mine Chinarello Mad-Dog. But others I thought of were Chinarello: Chogma, Catma, Wild-Dog, Dogman, Bogma. I guess the list can go on. But like you didn't want dogpoo.


Thanks for the ideas. Mad-Dog is cool. It is almost an anagram of Dogma. But I definitely need a Catma.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

csneom4a1 said:


> ...
> I was going to place an order with wwww dot e-hongfu-bikes dot com , but want to make sure they are still good to go. Anyone have any experience with them recently?
> 
> Also, how fast is miracle trade in replying to emails from the website? Can I expect a response in 24 hours?
> ...


Couple of pages back there were 2 forums users who have used the FM-015 (e-hongfu) for sometime now ... no problems ...

Miracle? well ... as per below ... 



zigmeister said:


> ...
> I'm waiting for the Ritchey 1.5"-1 1/8" drop-in headset to arrive to see how well it fits. The bottom bearing is supposed to be 52mm, not 51.8mm as the Ratio-Tacto headset. I'm hoping the .2mm diameter difference will make it tight in the bottom. The top bearing is supposed to be the same diameter as the Ratio. So, I'm likely going to use my CDale Supersix top bearing. Both the Supersix lower/upper bearings fit like a glove on the MC053 frame. But, the race crown is an issue. CDale uses a smaller diameter/machined fork/crown. So it will not fit my current fork unless I sand the heck out of the fork diameter to make it fit over. Not looking to do that.
> ...


Are you getting the WCS headset from Ritchey? Have you looked at the FSA Orbit?


----------



## qatarbhoy

Crappymonkey said:


> Here's some MC055 pricing from Miracle...
> 
> we usually shipping by EMS，the cost shipping is 85usd to your lactation


Hmm, sounds like they're out to milk their customers... :skep:


----------



## Seneb

I'm about to pull the trigger on the Flyxii FR-303 in UD gloss with matching seatpost. The frame isn't listed on the site, but a quick email confirmed they have it. I'm now waiting on a quote for frameset, headset (if not included), seatpost, seatpost collar, and an extra derailleur hanger. They have been really good with communication and their english is pretty good. Some amusing translations, but good and understandable.


----------



## GiantTCR

I am getting one without any branding at all but with the same paint job because I feel it looks very good. Will that be allowed? I will eventually be getting vinyls to commemorate 9/11 on it.




Coolhand said:


> Yes- it its a true counterfeit with the stickers and everything.
> 
> But, if you are one of the clever blokes with the "parody" stickers, post away. The image posted by *WTFcyclist* is a good example of clever bloke's approach to this. Also enjoyed seeing some of the creative "brands" people have invented which is tied to something that inspired them.


----------



## zigmeister

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Couple of pages back there were 2 forums users who have used the FM-015 (e-hongfu) for sometime now ... no problems ...
> 
> Miracle? well ... as per below ...
> 
> 
> 
> Are you getting the WCS headset from Ritchey? Have you looked at the FSA Orbit?


The WCS is on the way, but I'm not sure if the 51.9mm is going to be the trick either. Haven't tried the FSA Orbit, I will check out the specs and get my calipers out to verify my CDale bearings, because they are golden.

The CDale Supersixe lower/upper fit perfectly, very snug on the frame. But, the issue is the CDale lower crown race, the fork is trimmed/reduced and the inner diameter of the race crown is smallerl than the standard 1.5" 38.8mm or whatever that magic number is. CDale has a 36mm or so diameter for the race crown inner.

So...I'm going to test the Ritchey, see how it works. If it doesn't, I will use my CDale lower/upper. Then see if any of the other race crowns match up/fit securely? If not, worse case, I can sand the fork/shoulder down to accomodate the CDale crown race and install that. Or, ream out the CDale crown race to fit the fork (better solution) Of course, I would rather not do either! 

It just ticked me off somewhat that Miracle played around for days saying I need to take it to a bike shop to get the bearings to fit properly claiming it is the correct part they sent. Then...they finally agree to just refund the costs of the headsets and rear hanger they also forgot and admitted the mistake.

Now I'm into this thing for another $200+ for a simple screw up by miracle for not sending the right part and playing these games to get a headset that will fit properly.

The Ratio when snugged up tight, has no play in it, but I just don't like the idea of the drop-in bearings not being snug in place to a pretty close tolerance. As I said, the CDale Supersix bearings fit real nice on the bike. So that is my fail back method/solution. Sell the other headsets I bought to get some money back out of this misery.

So, besides the minor snafu that is causing some grief with getting a proper fitting headset, all has been peachy with the frame/Miracle!!!!.

Others apparently have faired much better than I. Just FYI for people that a little thing that is critical like a headset bearing, can make your life miserable and leave a bad taste in your mouth regarding the transaction and company.


----------



## FTR

Not sure how "sloppy" they are but for reference the drop in bearings in my Santa Cruz Tallboy were not snug.
They fell out when the fork was removed.


----------



## zender

FTR said:


> Not sure how "sloppy" they are but for reference the drop in bearings in my Santa Cruz Tallboy were not snug.
> They fell out when the fork was removed.


I've built 3 Chinese frames using their supplied Nico (or whatever brand that was) bearings, all are 1 1/8" top 1 1/4" bottom. They all drop into the frame smoothly and do not move around, but do not have enough friction to stay in there without assembling the fork and steerer. They will drop right out if you let go. That's the tolerance I think of these frames.


----------



## flyjoe

trailrunner68 said:


> Thanks for the ideas. Mad-Dog is cool. It is almost an anagram of Dogma. But I definitely need a Catma.


 I was actually going to get," ma dog", instead of dogma. But I ended up with a knockoff, its what was in stock before their new year celebration. I will be repaintin it eventually.
I did find it funny that the Pinarello name on the chainstay has the trade mark "R" on it. lol.


----------



## PaxRomana

GiantTCR said:


> I am getting one without any branding at all but with the same paint job because I feel it looks very good. Will that be allowed? I will eventually be getting vinyls to commemorate 9/11 on it.


You're going to commemorate 9/11 with a counterfeit Chinese frame?

I don't even know what to say. :frown2:


----------



## FTR

Why is it so hard to keep this thread on topic?
We just get rid of a discussion of counterfeit frames only for it to move on to a discussion about 911??
Dont we have Teh Lounge or a Politics Only section to discuss that?
We have 1 thread on this entire Forum to talk about the Chinese generic frames and yet nobody seems to be able to respect that.


----------



## csneom4a1

So I bit the bullet and ordered a 3k matt fm015 frame, handlebar and 2 cages from e-hongfu thru their website. Little nervous about dealing with them, but reading all these threads helped.


----------



## GiantTCR

What would you like me to do then, are you here to make choices for me or are you going to see what the end product is, the negativity expressed in these threads are 



PaxRomana said:


> You're going to commemorate 9/11 with a counterfeit Chinese frame?
> 
> I don't even know what to say. :frown2:


----------



## flyjoe

csneom4a1 said:


> So I bit the bullet and ordered a 3k matt fm015 frame, handlebar and 2 cages from e-hongfu thru their website. Little nervous about dealing with them, but reading all these threads helped.


 Got mine from miracle tade, Just did 20 miles on it. Love that frame!


----------



## PaxRomana

GiantTCR said:


> What would you like me to do then, are you here to make choices for me or are you going to see what the end product is, the negativity expressed in these threads are


Yeah, because nothing says you honor the victims of 9/11 like buying a fake Chinese knockoff and plastering 9/11 on it.  At least buy something AMERICAN.

I don't care what you buy, but seriously, this has to be the dumbest and most disrespectful idea I've heard here.


----------



## robc in wi

zigmeister said:


> The WCS is on the way, but I'm not sure if the 51.9mm is going to be the trick either. Haven't tried the FSA Orbit, I will check out the specs and get my calipers out to verify my CDale bearings, because they are golden.
> 
> The CDale Supersixe lower/upper fit perfectly, very snug on the frame. But, the issue is the CDale lower crown race, the fork is trimmed/reduced and the inner diameter of the race crown is smallerl than the standard 1.5" 38.8mm or whatever that magic number is. CDale has a 36mm or so diameter for the race crown inner.
> 
> So...I'm going to test the Ritchey, see how it works. If it doesn't, I will use my CDale lower/upper. Then see if any of the other race crowns match up/fit securely? If not, worse case, I can sand the fork/shoulder down to accomodate the CDale crown race and install that. Or, ream out the CDale crown race to fit the fork (better solution) Of course, I would rather not do either!
> 
> It just ticked me off somewhat that Miracle played around for days saying I need to take it to a bike shop to get the bearings to fit properly claiming it is the correct part they sent. Then...they finally agree to just refund the costs of the headsets and rear hanger they also forgot and admitted the mistake.
> 
> Now I'm into this thing for another $200+ for a simple screw up by miracle for not sending the right part and playing these games to get a headset that will fit properly.
> 
> The Ratio when snugged up tight, has no play in it, but I just don't like the idea of the drop-in bearings not being snug in place to a pretty close tolerance. As I said, the CDale Supersix bearings fit real nice on the bike. So that is my fail back method/solution. Sell the other headsets I bought to get some money back out of this misery.
> 
> So, besides the minor snafu that is causing some grief with getting a proper fitting headset, all has been peachy with the frame/Miracle!!!!.
> 
> Others apparently have faired much better than I. Just FYI for people that a little thing that is critical like a headset bearing, can make your life miserable and leave a bad taste in your mouth regarding the transaction and company.[/QUOTE/]
> 
> Not to rub salt in the wounds but I guess I don't understand why you didn't have Miracle just ship you the correct headset once they agreed that they had sent the wrong ones. Even if they had made you pay additional shipping and credited you the cost of the wrong ones you would have had your headset by now and been out $20 not $200. Communication was very good for me with Miracle (timewise) but I agree that a lot can get lost in translation. Keep in mind that these companies which much rather sell 50 of these frames than a single one which is why they may decide to stop selling to single buyers half way around the world. That said, they made the error and should have sucked it up and made it right.


----------



## cda 455

PaxRomana said:


> You're going to commemorate 9/11 with a counterfeit Chinese frame?
> 
> I don't even know what to say. :frown2:



It's the American way  !


----------



## GiantTCR

If that is the dumbest thing you have heard then you live under a rock, I really could care less, I will do what I feel is ok. You worry about yourself ok, go beat up the others infringing on intellectual property in the preceding pages. Or keep working on your post count with bringing forth useless criticism. 



PaxRomana said:


> Yeah, because nothing says you honor the victims of 9/11 like buying a fake Chinese knockoff and plastering 9/11 on it.  At least buy something AMERICAN.
> 
> I don't care what you buy, but seriously, this has to be the dumbest and most disrespectful idea I've heard here.


----------



## Banditgrrr

I realize this is not the "wheels" thread but from what I've read, most of you that purchased a frame also purchased wheels from China/Taiwan as well.

So it comes down to this.....after hours of reading and emails, I have narrowed my purchase down to these items. This is for a set of 60mm clinchers. I'm familiar with a few of these brand names for the hubs but I'm not experienced enough to determine which is the best package. They're all pretty much in the same price range with the exception of Flyxii. Can anyone give me some recommendations on which package is the best for the cost? I'm ready to make this purchase but I'm hoping someone with more experience with the products or brands can help me make a decision. I would like to pull the trigger on one of these tonight if I can get some feedback.


----------



## Coolhand

*Moderators Note*

Last warning on the hijacks and trolling. Posting vacations are on tap next.


----------



## GiantTCR

cda 455 said:


> It's the American way  !


Love your avatar:thumbsup:

I guess I should post up my real FPQUATTRO


----------



## GiantTCR

So let me get this straight, we discuss a frame and what I want to do with it, get criticized, I respond and get negative rep. Sounds about right....


----------



## PaxRomana

GiantTCR said:


> So let me get this straight, we discuss a frame and what I want to do with it, get criticized, I respond and get negative rep. Sounds about right....


I didn't give you any negative rep. I don't even know how that works. You gave it to yourself. 

Look, if you're trying to excuse your intellectual property theft by somehow claiming that you're going to "commemorate 9/11" with it, that is an insult to the people who died on that date.

Do whatever you want though. I've said my piece.


----------



## GiantTCR

PaxRomana said:


> I didn't give you any negative rep. I don't even know how that works. You gave it to yourself.
> 
> Look, if you're trying to excuse your intellectual property theft by somehow claiming that you're going to "commemorate 9/11" with it, that is an insult to the people who died on that date.
> 
> Do whatever you want though. I've said my piece.



Thanks for that, perhaps you can jump on the guy that claims it was an inside job. In the case of what I want to do with my money and bike is my issue, if you take issue with it then sorry but maybe I should take my FPQUATTRO and do it to that one, oh wait, not made in the USA either, damn.

As far as treading on intellectual property, I am not putting Pinarello on it, neither am I claiming it is and it is not OEM, farthest from it..buy a few miles. Along with that, the frames are not the same, it has been said before the frames have differences, different carbon layup and weight differences. So while you ride your white horse in on the IP train, take a breath and look at the specialized posted in the first couple pages and the ones that are rolling with true property treading Pinarello branding on these chinese frames.

It stands to reason taking a blank frame and tattooing it with the real manufacturers labels is the issue and very much should be, unsuspecting buyers across the net are fooled countless times and if and when they find out the truth it is to late and they cannot do anything about it.


----------



## FTR

Did either of you read Coolhands post?
Seriously get over yourselves.
Go and start a thread elsewhere and have a little "I can piss further than you battle".


----------



## powking12

Hey CSN. Ordered my FM015 a couple of months ago and just got it last week (a month earlier than quoted). Should be getting my wheels by the end of the month. 

Communication has been by email and has been very good. This is my second purchase from them and both have been seamless.


----------



## csneom4a1

powking12 said:


> Hey CSN. Ordered my FM015 a couple of months ago and just got it last week (a month earlier than quoted). Should be getting my wheels by the end of the month.
> 
> Communication has been by email and has been very good. This is my second purchase from them and both have been seamless.


Awesome, thanks for letting me know. They have emailed me already letting me know they are out of 42cm handle bars for 30 days, so i said a 40cm was ok. It sounded like it would ship right away as long as i was ok with not getting the 42 bar.


----------



## jordo_99

apachesix said:


> Banditgrrr said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been having a difficult time trying to determine if the 58cm FM201 is large enough for me. I currently have a 59cm BH which fits me great. I'd like to know if someone more experienced here can help determine if the 58cm will fit based on the measurements I have from the BH.
> 
> 
> 
> My initial guess is that you would have to add 20mm more of spacers below the stem and 20-30mm in stem length than you have now to have a fit in the same neighborhood.
> 
> If you are already running a lot of spacers and a real long stem then this frame may be a no go, if not then it might work just fine.
Click to expand...

I'd have to agree with him. I think his estimate is very close...the only thing that might be (very slightly) off with his estimate is that he might not have considered the seat tube angle...it's only a 1 degree difference but it might be enough to make the 58cm sit as high as a 59cm if you follow me...this would put you (again very slightly) forward a little more so you might expect to me closer to a 30mm increase in stem than 20mm (Top Tube alone is around 25mm and consider your seat is about 5mm closer to your handbars because of the seat tube angle.

You could also negate the very slight difference in seat tube angle by sliding your saddle back slightly.

His answer was definitely sufficient but I figured I'd try to explain it a bit more...this is all a "science" based theory and there are definitely those who would consider fitting more of an artform than science so I'm subject to be criticized


----------



## chipgrafx

Been lurking around and reading the various threads regarding the Chinese open mold frames. I am just about to pull the trigger on a FM028 frame and fork but I am hoping for a little insight before I order. I am not new to cycling but I had been out of it for a few years before really getting back out and riding.

A little about myself... I am 39 years-old, 160lbs. and stand about 5' 10''. I am active and pretty fit.

I am currently riding a LeMond in a 55cm. It is a very relaxed/upright setup, which I like, but I am wanting to move toward something a little more aggressive. I am thinking I will order a 54cm frame. I seem to remember reading in one of these threads about the sizing being slightly smaller on certain frames (or from certain manufacturers?) than what is actually stated.

It would be better to order a frame that may be a little too small rather than one that is a little too large, correct? Any input or opinions? Your responses and help is greatly appreciated.


----------



## jordo_99

chipgrafx said:


> I am currently riding a LeMond in a 55cm. It is a very relaxed/upright setup, which I like, but I am wanting to move toward something a little more aggressive. I am thinking I will order a 54cm frame. I seem to remember reading in one of these threads about the sizing being slightly smaller on certain frames (or from certain manufacturers?) than what is actually stated.
> 
> It would be better to order a frame that may be a little too small rather than one that is a little too large, correct? Any input or opinions? Your responses and help is greatly appreciated.


The Pinarello look-alike frames have all the same geometries as the real deal, but with a 2cm longer seat tube so I'm guessing that's what you refer to. (For instance, a 54cm legit frame has all the same measurements as the 56cm look-alike...except the look-alike has a seat tube which is 2cm longer...so a size 56 is really a 54) I'm not sure if that is the same for all frames...but the great majority of sellers post the frame geometries.

If you're unsure post what you're current frame geometries are and the geometries of the frame you're considering and we can probably help you out.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

powking12 said:


> Hey CSN. Ordered my FM015 a couple of months ago and just got it last week (a month earlier than quoted). Should be getting my wheels by the end of the month.
> 
> Communication has been by email and has been very good. This is my second purchase from them and both have been seamless.


Who did you order this from and why the 'couple' of months? e-Hongfu said they could ship the frame out the following week after I have paid them ... ok ok  ... I will need to give them a margin of + a month or 2 ...



chipgrafx said:


> ...
> A little about myself... I am 39 years-old, 160lbs. and stand about 5' 10''. I am active and pretty fit.
> 
> I am currently riding a LeMond in a 55cm. It is a very relaxed/upright setup, which I like, but I am wanting to move toward something a little more aggressive. I am thinking I will order a 54cm frame. I seem to remember reading in one of these threads about the sizing being slightly smaller on certain frames (or from certain manufacturers?) than what is actually stated.
> 
> It would be better to order a frame that may be a little too small rather than one that is a little too large, correct? Any input or opinions? Your responses and help is greatly appreciated.


Do measure the 'effective' top tube length of your LeMond frame. And take note of the stem length that you are using ... that should be a start ... Do not deviate too much from that, as that is what you have been comfortable with ... otherwise, go down to your LBS and take a bike out to test and then take note of the ETT and stem length ...

I have a hard tail MTB which I put on 700c wheels and road tyres, just for me to go out on the road when it gets too muddy. Could not understand why I kept getting lower back pains and even after changing to a shorter stem, it was still there ... (Though I stay out on the road much longer than off-road. Then I read up the geometry of a few household frames out there ... I am 5' 10 3/4" ... the ETT of my HT MTB was 23.5" ... rightly so because you do get out of the saddle and move your weight around a lot more than a road bike ... My ETT was quoted as around 540 - 555mm ... took a Spez out for a test ride and was comfortable with around 545-550mm ... equates to around 21.5" ... a full 2" shorter than my HT MTB ... 'Recommended' stem length was 100mm and so there is 20mm to play around there even if I need a bit more adjustment ... 

The frame that I am considering is the FM-015 size 55 ETT 548mm.


----------



## Dankbeme

Coolhand said:


> Last warning on the hijacks and trolling. Posting vacations are on tap next.


Sorry to be such a newbie and interwebs non-hipster but: What is "hijacking" a thread? What constitutes trolling? (Is living under a bridge involved?)


----------



## TheBigYin

Dankbeme said:


> Sorry to be such a newbie and interwebs non-hipster but: What is "hijacking" a thread? What constitutes trolling? (Is living under a bridge involved?)


Hijacking - to deliberately derail or change the progress of a thread from the original posters intention or question.

Trolling - to post remarks deliberately intended to cause arguments, or to attempt to "get a rise" out of other members. Think it may have had origins as Trawling - a fishermans term, though now pretty much established as the "under bridge dwelling, goat snacking" variation of the spelling


----------



## cocomo

no matter


----------



## andresmuro

*Finished building bike from FLYXII*

Here it is. Not a good picture. I rode it a couple of times. Still playing with derailleur adjustments.


----------



## Coolhand

*Moderators Note*

One posting vacation has been issued already today. I would like to avoid others.


----------



## zigmeister

FTR said:


> Not sure how "sloppy" they are but for reference the drop in bearings in my Santa Cruz Tallboy were not snug.
> They fell out when the fork was removed.


To be specific, the Ratio Tacto is a 51.8mm outer diameter for the bottom.

My Supersix that fits very snug on that frame and the MC053 is a 52.25-52.3mm...caliper variance.

The top is the same situation, 41mm outer for the Ratio Tacto, and CDale is 41.3mm.

That .3-.4mm difference is really huge for how it sits and how "snug" it is. Just a little grease and it can be put in by hand and removed by hand (with a little effort on the removal).

I don't have experience with other drop-in integrated headsets to compare unfortunately, they are all over the place and vary between frame and headset manufacturers, and the standards allow some variance.

So some of you guys replied there is some slight play .2-.3mm play upper/lower when the bearings sit in the frame cups, and others say their is snug.

I don't know, but snug makes sense, but as I said, when tightening up the Ratio Tacto headsets, it requires a lot of torque on the top cap to get the "play" out of the bearing/fork. That seems to be an issue to me personally.

I guess as long as the torque isn't excessive to cause any damage, removes the play and moves freely, no harm no foul. 

Since I know the CDale Supersix 2008+ (non-EVO) fits perfectly, I will likely just stick with that setup and sell the Ratio/Ritchey that I'm testing out and recoup some money.

If anybody needs a brand new Ratio Tacto tapered headset and doesn't want to wait 2 weeks to get it from Europe, I got one for sale, will give you a deal!!!

Thanks guys.


----------



## zigmeister

zender said:


> I've built 3 Chinese frames using their supplied Nico (or whatever brand that was) bearings, all are 1 1/8" top 1 1/4" bottom. They all drop into the frame smoothly and do not move around, but do not have enough friction to stay in there without assembling the fork and steerer. They will drop right out if you let go. That's the tolerance I think of these frames.


As I wrote above, this sounds exactly how my CDale Supersix bearings fit into the MC053 frame upper/lower. Snug, no play.

The Ratio Tacto and Ritchey have about .3-.4mm to small diameter and there is "play". When tightened up with the top cap, you can remove that play in the fork, but that just doesn't seem right compared to my CDale integrated taper.

I'm likely going to stick with the CDale KP044 headset, use the bearings, then a different race crown and top cap/spacers as needed. That is how I have it rigged right now for some test rides I've done a mile or two, works fine, headset is solid with no play.

Thx


----------



## zigmeister

robc in wi said:


> Not to rub salt in the wounds but I guess I don't understand why you didn't have Miracle just ship you the correct headset once they agreed that they had sent the wrong ones. Even if they had made you pay additional shipping and credited you the cost of the wrong ones you would have had your headset by now and been out $20 not $200. Communication was very good for me with Miracle (timewise) but I agree that a lot can get lost in translation. Keep in mind that these companies which much rather sell 50 of these frames than a single one which is why they may decide to stop selling to single buyers half way around the world. That said, they made the error and should have sucked it up and made it right.




Criticize all you want. Do you want me to copy/paste the 10 emails back/forth between me and Miracle (Mecy Lin)? Cliff notes: I kept sending photos of what they sent me, they kept responding back saying it was the correct headset. Then they would say it should be H373, then they would tell me to take it to the bike shop and they will await the "engineers" at my bike shop as to whether it works and I don't know how to build a bike. Then it was more of the same, runaround, saying the headset should work blah blah blah.

After 1 week of going around in circles with them, screw it, the money isn't the issue really. It is the money/hassles/frustration etc..of dealing with them about $30 worth of headsets, which they sent me the wrong ones.

In the end, I basically had to threaten a Paypal dispute to either get the correct headsets/parts I paid for, or just refund me the $32 what I paid for these missing parts.

Only then, did I finally get refunded $32. That was yesterday. With an "apology".

That was their decision, not mine. I wanted the correct headset that fits this thing, but I also don't want to wait another 2 weeks for it to show up, or maybe they send me the wrong ones again?!?! Wouldn't put it past them that's for sure.

They never made any effort to offer/ship me a replacement as I paid for. Anybody in their right mind after a week of going around in circles would give up with these people.

In summary, good for you! You got them to communicate and get the order right. I on the other hand, was sent the wrong stuff, I was missing and extra rear hanger I paid for, and then got the run around from them over 7 days. Enough is enough.

I will post up my final build, takeaways and thoughts on the experience and bike later when I get it all done, likely next week. I will do this so others can have some information what to expect, what could go wrong, and any challenges specific to this frame.

:thumbsup:


----------



## GiantTCR

I guess that would not be me you are talking about?



Coolhand said:


> One posting vacation has been issued already today. I would like to avoid others.


----------



## Crappymonkey

andresmuro said:


> Here it is. Not a good picture. I rode it a couple of times. Still playing with derailleur adjustments.



Holy cross-chaining Batman!

Why did you decide on the bar end shifters?

The bike looks nice.


----------



## PaxRomana

Has anyone ordered the Time RXRS knockoff from CyclingYong? I'm wondering if that is actually a lugged frame, as the original, or if it is a monocoque made to look like a lugged frame.


----------



## SBains187

Nice bikes, hopefully i wil lhave one to post soon.


----------



## SBains187

I hate this 10 post rule.


----------



## SBains187

as you guys can see, im just trying to get to 10 posts. But seriously nice bikes.


----------



## Backflush

Someone mentioned that the RFM201 frame has a shorter top tube and that you need to get a longer handle bar stem. I could not find the orginal post in the bazillion long threads. Anyway, the frame sizes Pinarello uses is measured C-C on the seatpost and Great Keen measures the size from C of the bottom bracket to the top of the Seatpost. The CF number on Pinarello table is closer to the Great Keen frame size. The other dimensions are also very close, so if you need a 50cm frame, you should actually order the 52cm


----------



## Seneb

andresmuro said:


> Here it is. Not a good picture. I rode it a couple of times. Still playing with derailleur adjustments.


Looking good. Bar end shifters! I'm about to order from Flyxii and am wondering how long it took for you to get the frame after paying for it.


----------



## andresmuro

Seneb said:


> Looking good. Bar end shifters! I'm about to order from Flyxii and am wondering how long it took for you to get the frame after paying for it.


Super fast. They shipped and send tracking the day after I paid. It took about 6 days. One small problem I had. The rear spacing was just a fraction smaller that 130 mm. I had to sand the dropout a tiny bit. No bid deal. However, you can ask them to try on a rear wheel to make sure that it goes in smooth. 

They are very fast to communicate with. I actually chose the frame, fork headset on ebay that was $375 shipped. I asked them to add additional components and they gave me the package which included a seatpost, two cages and spacers for $420 shipped. 

I love bar end shifters. I ride on my drops a lot and with just a tiny hand move I shift. Even when I ride on my hoods, I can easily shift without effort.


----------



## andresmuro

Crappymonkey said:


> Holy cross-chaining Batman!
> 
> Why did you decide on the bar end shifters?
> 
> The bike looks nice.


Ride on drops a lot. just a gentle hand move and shift. Easier to maintain sith less moving parts so they will last longer. If you want to remove your handlebar or put aero bars, you don't need to take the cables out remover the bar tape, or do weird things. All you do is loosen the shifters and put them on your aero bars without much complication.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

Coolhand said:


> One posting vacation has been issued already today. I would like to avoid others.


Cheers for keeping the thread clean ...

I do not understand why it is so difficult to discuss a topic without offending anyone ... I think on many occasions we do need to read what we have written before posting as it may sound a tad rude ... Seems to me some members get a kick just by getting 'one over another' on the forum ...



zigmeister said:


> ...
> Do you want me to copy/paste the 10 emails back/forth between me and Miracle (Mecy Lin)? Cliff notes: I kept sending photos of what they sent me, they kept responding back saying it was the correct headset. Then they would say it should be H373, then they would tell me to take it to the bike shop and they will await the "engineers" at my bike shop as to whether it works and I don't know how to build a bike. Then it was more of the same, runaround, saying the headset should work blah blah blah.
> ...


I perfectly understand how you feel ... I would have pulled out all my hair off my body if I had to go through that and I would not have waited that long before I threaten to complain to Paypal  

Could be a one off but the fact that they chose to argue over a headset which do not cost much ... tells me something about how they operate ... Miracle is off my list that is for sure ...

To date I am quite happy with what I have read about Hongfu ... the fact that one member with a damaged frame was offered a full refund or have another frame sent out ... :thumbsup: ... or was that Dengfu ... dang!!!


----------



## Seneb

andresmuro said:


> Super fast. They shipped and send tracking the day after I paid. It took about 6 days. One small problem I had. The rear spacing was just a fraction smaller that 130 mm. I had to sand the dropout a tiny bit. No bid deal. However, you can ask them to try on a rear wheel to make sure that it goes in smooth.


Great, thanks for the info! I'll probably order tonight or tomorrow.


----------



## robc in wi

zigmeister said:


> Criticize all you want. Do you want me to copy/paste the 10 emails back/forth between me and Miracle (Mecy Lin)? Cliff notes: I kept sending photos of what they sent me, they kept responding back saying it was the correct headset. Then they would say it should be H373, then they would tell me to take it to the bike shop and they will await the "engineers" at my bike shop as to whether it works and I don't know how to build a bike. Then it was more of the same, runaround, saying the headset should work blah blah blah.
> 
> After 1 week of going around in circles with them, screw it, the money isn't the issue really. It is the money/hassles/frustration etc..of dealing with them about $30 worth of headsets, which they sent me the wrong ones.
> 
> In the end, I basically had to threaten a Paypal dispute to either get the correct headsets/parts I paid for, or just refund me the $32 what I paid for these missing parts.
> 
> Only then, did I finally get refunded $32. That was yesterday. With an "apology".
> 
> That was their decision, not mine. I wanted the correct headset that fits this thing, but I also don't want to wait another 2 weeks for it to show up, or maybe they send me the wrong ones again?!?! Wouldn't put it past them that's for sure.
> 
> They never made any effort to offer/ship me a replacement as I paid for. Anybody in their right mind after a week of going around in circles would give up with these people.
> 
> In summary, good for you! You got them to communicate and get the order right. I on the other hand, was sent the wrong stuff, I was missing and extra rear hanger I paid for, and then got the run around from them over 7 days. Enough is enough.
> 
> I will post up my final build, takeaways and thoughts on the experience and bike later when I get it all done, likely next week. I will do this so others can have some information what to expect, what could go wrong, and any challenges specific to this frame.
> 
> :thumbsup:


Sorry if it came across as a criticism, it wasn't meant to be. If you did read through the hundreds of pages in all of the chinese carbon threads you will find that all of the companies have screwed up an order at some point. Miracle is obviously no different. I'm a cheap son of a gun (that's why I went this route) so I would have waited for them to send the right headset. Hope it all works out for you and you like the bike. As for the guy scratching Miracle off of his list, they've sold a lot of frames and wheelsets especially over at mtbr.com and are pretty well regarded but that's his choice of course.


----------



## ericTheHalf

chipgrafx said:


> Been lurking around and reading the various threads regarding the Chinese open mold frames. I am just about to pull the trigger on a FM028 frame and fork but I am hoping for a little insight before I order. I am not new to cycling but I had been out of it for a few years before really getting back out and riding.
> 
> A little about myself... I am 39 years-old, 160lbs. and stand about 5' 10''. I am active and pretty fit.
> 
> I am currently riding a LeMond in a 55cm. It is a very relaxed/upright setup, which I like, but I am wanting to move toward something a little more aggressive. I am thinking I will order a 54cm frame. I seem to remember reading in one of these threads about the sizing being slightly smaller on certain frames (or from certain manufacturers?) than what is actually stated.
> 
> It would be better to order a frame that may be a little too small rather than one that is a little too large, correct? Any input or opinions? Your responses and help is greatly appreciated.


My measurements are different than yours, but this might give you an idea of the position on a FM028. I decided that I don't need the aggressive position I rode when I raced, so the tall headtube was fine. The effective top tube was within a mm or 2 of my previous bike. I have ridden this with the stem flipped over and with no spacers. It was not as aggressive as I could get with my old bike but still got me pretty low when in the drops. From what I know now, if I was going for an aggressive, racing position I would have gone the next size down.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/3711589-post5278.html


----------



## chipgrafx

jordo_99 said:


> The Pinarello look-alike frames have all the same geometries as the real deal, but with a 2cm longer seat tube so I'm guessing that's what you refer to. (For instance, a 54cm legit frame has all the same measurements as the 56cm look-alike...except the look-alike has a seat tube which is 2cm longer...so a size 56 is really a 54) I'm not sure if that is the same for all frames...but the great majority of sellers post the frame geometries.
> 
> If you're unsure post what you're current frame geometries are and the geometries of the frame you're considering and we can probably help you out.


jordo_99, thanks for the input.

Maybe what I read was in regard to the Pinarello look-alike frames, either way, I have no interest in those. I am looking at the FM028 from Deng Fu.

Geometry for my current ride is: frame size: 55cm, effective top tube: 565mm, stem: 70mm, 40mm of spacers under the bars.

The more I am researching this, the more it looks like I can go with the 54cm frame. I just may need to use a 90 or 100mm stem.


----------



## chipgrafx

ericTheHalf said:


> My measurements are different than yours, but this might give you an idea of the position on a FM028. I decided that I don't need the aggressive position I rode when I raced, so the tall headtube was fine. The effective top tube was within a mm or 2 of my previous bike. I have ridden this with the stem flipped over and with no spacers. It was not as aggressive as I could get with my old bike but still got me pretty low when in the drops. From what I know now, if I was going for an aggressive, racing position I would have gone the next size down.
> 
> [had to snip your link]


After taking the tape measure to my bike and tracking down most of the geometry online it appears I can go with the 54cm frame and bump up to a 90 or 100mm stem (I am currently using a 70mm stem).

And I completely agree that it would be nice if more people posted photos of how they look on their setup rather than just the bike propped up or on a stand.

Thanks for the input, Eric. :thumbsup:


----------



## steviemidnight

Well i have a FM015 on order from Jenny at HongFu and i need some tips and helps regarding vinyl

It's 3k weave matte i hope  and i want to put PAYNO proabbly in jet black on the down tube with a O on the front (just a nickname) and a few other little bits i want to add, so questions are:
Any tips for good application?
I'm thinking masking tape measure, take time heat up and apply
Any UK vinyl companies i should speak with?
Do some people just get stuff from ANyone recomend any Final
Dimentions? I know its prefference but anyone have any vinyl for a FM015 and dimentions handy
Vinyl style? thickness? any recomendations i.e. you get allweather etc and thicker will chip less but looks more poppy

Now regarding scratches anyone with a carbon bike in matte have any recomendations was thinking of using standard Helicopter tape on the chain stays etc


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

steviemidnight said:


> Well i have a FM015 on order from Jenny at HongFu and i need some tips and helps regarding vinyl
> ...
> Any UK vinyl companies i should speak with?
> ...


this is the link that i have right now ... not in the UK but i think a couple of the custom decals in the picture thread are from here ...
Stickers Design

I am planning on ordering the same frame from hongfu ... :thumbsup: ... do post pictures of the frame closeup and do let me know on any irregularities etc.

btw What size seat post does this frame take? Size 55?

_PM sent ... cheers_ :thumbsup:


----------



## megl

Is it possible to find the china carbon frames bigger than size 58cm anywhere? I looked at different sites offering them, but can't find any bigger than 58 :-(


----------



## FTR

megl said:


> Is it possible to find the china carbon frames bigger than size 58cm anywhere? I looked at different sites offering them, but can't find any bigger than 58 :-(


FM028 comes in a 60cm


----------



## rayovolks

PaxRomana said:


> Has anyone ordered the Time RXRS knockoff from CyclingYong? I'm wondering if that is actually a lugged frame, as the original, or if it is a monocoque made to look like a lugged frame.


this kind of question does not belong in this thread.


----------



## cocomo

Try an inline cable adjuster to take out the slack?

I don't understand how it could be too long though, tensioning the inner cable should be independent of the length of the outer cable it moves in.


----------



## PaxRomana

rayovolks said:


> this kind of question does not belong in this thread.


I have no intention of purchasing a fake RXRS. I am wondering if the Chinese factories now have the capability of making lugged frames or if they are making monocoques that look lugged.


----------



## Reeve

looks like there is someone with the same problem as me,

dengfu fm098 - YouTube

why did my previous post got deleted anyway?

something does really feel like its holding back the cable.

front d is fine..


----------



## Reeve

alright, just did a search using firefox in the 5.0 thread ( IE couldnt work on 5.0) looks like FTR has posted a possible solution.. i'll try to ask my LBS mechanic to try it out. will update soon.

4 ways i am going to try,

1. remove end cap of cable housings 

2. use smoother cables ( am using teflon coated ones)

3 .try a inline cable adjuster

4. if all else fails, i'ld try to remove the inbuild cable housings (using a heated pin/rod to melt the plastic housings) and replace with new ones?


----------



## zender

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> this is the link that i have right now ... not in the UK but i think a couple of the custom decals in the picture thread are from here ...
> Stickers Design


Anyone used this guy recently? I recall way back in the day, there was some mention that you needed to translate your emails to Portugese or else he wouldn't respond. From his site, it seems like the business has expanded with some very strong reproductions of specific bikes. Wondering if (other than his 4 ebay listings) there is a smoother way to order?


----------



## megl

FTR said:


> FM028 comes in a 60cm


Thanks! :thumbsup:


----------



## DudeMtn

steviemidnight said:


> Well i have a FM015 on order from Jenny at HongFu and i need some tips and helps regarding vinyl
> 
> It's 3k weave matte i hope  and i want to put PAYNO proabbly in jet black on the down tube with a O on the front (just a nickname) and a few other little bits i want to add, so questions are:
> Any tips for good application?
> I'm thinking masking tape measure, take time heat up and apply
> Any UK vinyl companies i should speak with?
> Do some people just get stuff from ANyone recomend any Final
> Dimentions? I know its prefference but anyone have any vinyl for a FM015 and dimentions handy
> Vinyl style? thickness? any recomendations i.e. you get allweather etc and thicker will chip less but looks more poppy
> 
> Now regarding scratches anyone with a carbon bike in matte have any recomendations was thinking of using standard Helicopter tape on the chain stays etc


Stevie,
Marco Pollo from Brazil is your guy. I gave the info to chinaman also. And many members here have used him as well which is where I got the contact too. Read back a few posts for my write up on my FM015. He is really helpful, does many revisions and will do whatever it takes to get you what you want. He also knows exactly what size logos/decals fit on your frame - at least the fmo15 for sure. He will send you a PDF with your decals superimposed on your frame so you can get a pretty good idea of what it looks like and what works/doesn't. The decals are good quality, require no special preparation, are easy to work with, adhere quite well and for $40 - including design work, revisions, communication, PDF files etc etc and shipped to you door. IMO is an amazing deal. Can't say enough. And yes, many of the designs on his site are from/for members here.


----------



## DudeMtn

*Decals*



zender said:


> Anyone used this guy recently? I recall way back in the day, there was some mention that you needed to translate your emails to Portugese or else he wouldn't respond. From his site, it seems like the business has expanded with some very strong reproductions of specific bikes. Wondering if (other than his 4 ebay listings) there is a smoother way to order?


Zender,
Read my FMO15 post from pg 23 of this forum as well as the response to Stevie just above today. 

Marco Pollo [email protected]

Please tell him the dude with the "crosshair" FMO15 sent you. Good luck.


----------



## andresmuro

steviemidnight said:


> Well i have a FM015 on order from Jenny at HongFu and i need some tips and helps regarding vinyl
> 
> It's 3k weave matte i hope  and i want to put PAYNO proabbly in jet black on the down tube with a O on the front (just a nickname) and a few other little bits i want to add, so questions are:
> Any tips for good application?
> I'm thinking masking tape measure, take time heat up and apply
> Any UK vinyl companies i should speak with?
> Do some people just get stuff from ANyone recomend any Final
> Dimentions? I know its prefference but anyone have any vinyl for a FM015 and dimentions handy
> Vinyl style? thickness? any recomendations i.e. you get allweather etc and thicker will chip less but looks more poppy
> 
> Now regarding scratches anyone with a carbon bike in matte have any recomendations was thinking of using standard Helicopter tape on the chain stays etc


Not sure what standard helicopter tape is. I use gorilla duct tape in all my chainstays. I've had bikes with thousands of miles and when I pull off the duct tape, the chainstays are perfect. 

With a black carbon frame, the gorilla duct tape blends like magic since it has a checkered pattern of sorts.


----------



## orange_julius

andresmuro said:


> Not sure what standard helicopter tape is. I use gorilla duct tape in all my chainstays. I've had bikes with thousands of miles and when I pull off the duct tape, the chainstays are perfect.
> 
> With a black carbon frame, the gorilla duct tape blends like magic since it has a checkered pattern of sorts.


"Helicopter tape" is this:
Amazon.com: ISC Helicopter-OG Surface Guard Tape (8 mil Outdoor Grade): 4 in. x 12 ft. (Transparent): Automotive

Basically clear urethane tape that protects against scratching. Not sure where the term "helicopter" came from, I've heard it was originally sold as helicopter blade protector or something.

I use it judiciously on my builds to protect against cable rub, and scratching from cleats, removing/installing wheels, etc.


----------



## Seneb

I just ordered a Flyxii FR-303 & seatpost in UD gloss, collar, and extra derailleur hanger. Now I need to think about some simple decals.


----------



## andresmuro

orange_julius said:


> "Helicopter tape" is this:
> Amazon.com: ISC Helicopter-OG Surface Guard Tape (8 mil Outdoor Grade): 4 in. x 12 ft. (Transparent): Automotive
> 
> Basically clear urethane tape that protects against scratching. Not sure where the term "helicopter" came from, I've heard it was originally sold as helicopter blade protector or something.
> 
> I use it judiciously on my builds to protect against cable rub, and scratching from cleats, removing/installing wheels, etc.


After your description, I was going to order some. Then, I saw the price and decided that I'll stick to gorilla tape. Unless, there is evidence the heli tape will get my bike airborne.


----------



## WTFcyclist

Hey DudeMtn, another sticker worth putting on your bike is FUCI approved frame sticker from: 2012 FUCI Approved Frame Sticker | Hans Kellner Dot Com


----------



## Seneb

WTFcyclist said:


> Hey DudeMtn, another sticker worth putting on your bike is FUCI approved frame sticker from: 2012 FUCI Approved Frame Sticker | Hans Kellner Dot Com [IMAGE]


Those are awesome.


----------



## csneom4a1

andresmuro said:


> After your description, I was going to order some. Then, I saw the price and decided that I'll stick to gorilla tape. Unless, there is evidence the heli tape will get my bike airborne.


Happen to have any pics of your bike with the gorilla tape on it? I am thinking of trying it but want to make sure I like the look.


----------



## orange_julius

andresmuro said:


> After your description, I was going to order some. Then, I saw the price and decided that I'll stick to gorilla tape. Unless, there is evidence the heli tape will get my bike airborne.


Yeah, it is pricey but it is also transparent. My vanity has a price ;-).


----------



## andyhopey

*E-hongfu frame FM039-ISP*

Never posted anything on here before but just finished my build. The frame was ordered from E-hongfu bikes FM039-ISP, very happy with the finished bike  The frame only took 3 weeks to get to me and Jen was very helpful.


----------



## chinarelloman

has anyone ordered from cyclingyong recently. looks like they just got the TIME frames in.
they look really nice. I wonder how close to the real deal these are. They look exactly alike.


----------



## Mankul

chinarelloman said:


> has anyone ordered from cyclingyong recently. looks like they just got the TIME frames in.
> they look really nice. I wonder how close to the real deal these are. They look exactly alike.


at a price of USD950  ... isn't that too much, considering that its of similar mould but different Chinese technology?


----------



## rayovolks

chinarelloman said:


> has anyone ordered from xxxxxxxxxxx recently. looks like they just got the TIME frames in.
> they look really nice. I wonder how close to the real deal these are. They look exactly alike.


sure. it is "nanomadle europe" and promises "you won-meddonize your performance."


----------



## PlatyPius

chinarelloman said:


> has anyone ordered from cyclingyong recently. looks like they just got the TIME frames in.
> they look really nice. I wonder how close to the real deal these are. They look exactly alike.


Considering the fact that TIME weaves their own carbon and all of the frames are handmade in France, I'd say that they aren't close at all...


----------



## Hiro11

Nicely done, Andy. I really like the 039.

Has anyone received an 055 yet?


----------



## chipgrafx

Ordered the FM028 on Friday afternoon from Deng Fu. This will be replacing my 10 year-old LeMond and I can't wait to start building it up. Aside from deciding to go SRAM (Red or Force?) I haven't really decided on any other parts.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

PlatyPius said:


> Considering the fact that TIME weaves their own carbon and all of the frames are handmade in France, I'd say that they aren't close at all...


Are they all really only made in France? 

_Just wondering how they could let that site go on advertising their 'Pinerellos', or 'Time' or 'Cervelo' frames like that??? (Or is this type of discussion not allowed?) I guess the West can't really do much if the site is hosted by a Chinese ISP? eh? Just answered my question there ..._


----------



## qatarbhoy

chipgrafx said:


> Ordered the FM028 on Friday afternoon from Deng Fu. This will be replacing my 10 year-old LeMond and I can't wait to start building it up. Aside from deciding to go SRAM (Red or Force?) I haven't really decided on any other parts.


Get Red shifters; for everything else Rival is fine, but Force will look better. Force brakes are fantastic, and just 13g heavier than the Reds.


----------



## FTR

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Are they all really only made in France?
> 
> _Just wondering how they could let that site go on advertising their 'Pinerellos', or 'Time' or 'Cervelo' frames like that??? (Or is this type of discussion not allowed?) I guess the West can't really do much if the site is hosted by a Chinese ISP? eh? Just answered my question there ..._



You did see Coolhand's post?


----------



## PaxRomana

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Are they all really only made in France?
> 
> _Just wondering how they could let that site go on advertising their 'Pinerellos', or 'Time' or 'Cervelo' frames like that??? (Or is this type of discussion not allowed?) I guess the West can't really do much if the site is hosted by a Chinese ISP? eh? Just answered my question there ..._


Yes. Time are made in France.

Anyway, that is a nice bike andyhopey. I really like those stealth black matte frames. The 039 seems quite popular. There are a few others on here who have built up some really good looking bikes with that frame.


----------



## pbart

I am wanting to build a bike for my son who just graduated. He is a fixed gear rider who has a great aerobic engine and is now interested in doing some road biking. We did the competitive cyclist fitting and have some numbers for the frame size. I gather that effective top tube is the most important and he is 538-542 for their competitive cyclist fit. Seat tube c-c 53.3 - 53.8 ; c-t 54.9 - 55.4 and BB to saddle of 73.6- 75.6. I have read these threads until my eyes glazed over (inefficient due to all the helpful advice from people not building bikes  ). 

I am looking for a frame that will be a good all rounder. Looked at the FM015, 028, MC053 and others
My Q's;
1) If I get an integrated seat post how do you factor the amount you add for the saddle to get the BB - saddle length
2) Are there any better dealers if I want to get a frameset, handlebars, stem and possibly some wheels.
3) I want to go with a matte black with red on the inside of fork and rear triangle and possibly a little of the downtube and Ghost decal or paint _NINJA _ on it. 

So, I have lurked for months and now I am wanting to pull the trigger and I need to get my thoughts straight and any help would be greatly appreciated. THX


----------



## chipgrafx

qatarbhoy said:


> Get Red shifters; for everything else Rival is fine, but Force will look better. Force brakes are fantastic, and just 13g heavier than the Reds.


Thanks qatarbhoy. I was actually leaning towards Red shifters and rear derailleur with Force being used everywhere else.

I am currently using a compact FSA crank set that I would like to just swap onto the new frame but I thought I read somewhere about possible incompatibilities with SRAM front derailleurs. Can anyone confirm or deny this?


----------



## lyot2003

andyhopey said:


> Never posted anything on here before but just finished my build. The frame was ordered from E-hongfu bikes FM039-ISP, very happy with the finished bike  The frame only took 3 weeks to get to me and Jen was very helpful.


Does that ISP use a stubby ? Great looking frame, I dig the matte black finish. What's the weight of the frame (it looks like a 54 or 56, right ?)


----------



## Zman099

*Trigon RQC29*

Looking for someone with feedback on a Trigon RQC29. Primary usage would be club riding and centuries. (I have read all the threads on the Neuvation FC500, not sure if this is a RQC29 or RQC30 clone)


----------



## robdamanii

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Are they all really only made in France?
> 
> _Just wondering how they could let that site go on advertising their 'Pinerellos', or 'Time' or 'Cervelo' frames like that??? (Or is this type of discussion not allowed?) I guess the West can't really do much if the site is hosted by a Chinese ISP? eh? Just answered my question there ..._


Yes, they are made in France, not the far east.


----------



## Retro Grouch

My riding partner just purchased a Neuvation FC500 and the chainstays, swooping toptube and downtude sections are dead-on to the RQC29, from what I can tell. He really likes Neuvation. I personnaly own a Token Sydney, which is a re-badged RQC15. Of the three road bikes I own, it's my hands down favorite for century riding.


----------



## chipgrafx

Moved this to the picture thread as that's seems to be the more appropriate place. :wink5:


----------



## pelly

*TT frame.*

Has anyone been able to source this TT frame from any of the Chinese sellers?


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

Anyone encountered any problems with the FD hitting the chainstay when trying to use the 34 chainring in a compact chainset? 50/34 ... Specifically FM015 frame.


But if you are using a 50/34 crankset, and have no problems, please post up what frame you have and where you got it from.

Thanks ... _Just thought I put another post here as someone posted in the picture thread that they encountered some problems with the FM015 frame and a compact chainset._


----------



## rocosista

great


----------



## rocosista

This is my paint design for the new frame dengfu fm-098. This week paint and present the pics of finish work.


----------



## FTR

Ummm, enjoy posting that while you can.
Perhaps have a read before posting up a counterfeit paint job.
Less than a week ago Coolhand (Moderator) said *NO COUNTERFEITS!!!!!*


----------



## Coolhand

FTR said:


> Ummm, enjoy posting that while you can.
> Perhaps have a read before posting up a counterfeit paint job.
> Less than a week ago Coolhand (Moderator) said *NO COUNTERFEITS!!!!!*


Indeed no counterfeits and no group buys please.


----------



## hansonator69

pelly said:


> Has anyone been able to source this TT frame from any of the Chinese sellers?


It is from Dengfu, however they have a clause which states they are not able to sell this model for 2 years.:mad2:


----------



## MTBMaven

FTR said:


> Ummm, enjoy posting that while you can.
> Perhaps have a read before posting up a counterfeit paint job.
> Less than a week ago Coolhand (Moderator) said *NO COUNTERFEITS!!!!!*


If I'm not mistaken all Mathot does is re-badge Chinese frames. Head over to his site and look at the bikes. I didn't see anywhere on the site that this is his business practice but one look at the frames for sale and any experienced follow of these threads will quickly recognize the frames. I think the question is legit and should stay. Mathot


----------



## lucasonci

*95 kg weight*

hello everybody!! I m new, my name is luca fromk verona italy. I m 1,83 cm x 95 kg. someone know if the fm015 deng fu is ok for my weight? (my leg very strong) thanks a lot


----------



## bikerdude221

MTBMaven said:


> If I'm not mistaken all Mathot does is re-badge Chinese frames. Head over to his site and look at the bikes. I didn't see anywhere on the site that this is his business practice but one look at the frames for sale and any experienced follow of these threads will quickly recognize the frames. I think the question is legit and should stay. Mathot


Definitively, as MTBMaven states those are *all* Chinese open frames from various dealers like Dengfu / Hongfu


----------



## FTR

bikerdude221 said:


> Definitively, as MTBMaven states those are *all* Chinese open frames from various dealers like Dengfu / Hongfu


I cannot work out whether you guys are for or against, but I personally have no issue with him carrying open mold frames.
It is when he posts up a pic of a FM098 with full S-works paint that it becomes a problem.


----------



## Crappymonkey

bikerdude221 said:


> Definitively, as MTBMaven states those are *all* Chinese open frames from various dealers like Dengfu / Hongfu



If they can sell them then why not?

Which frame is the Prospekt? Love the huge downtube.


----------



## chinarelloman

PlatyPius said:


> Considering the fact that TIME weaves their own carbon and all of the frames are handmade in France, I'd say that they aren't close at all...


they claim that they are 98% alike. Even if they are a little off, they still look great.
here is a direct quote
"This Time RXRS frame is 98% exactly same as orginal, only the headset change to 1 1/8' to 1 1/2' and BB 30 not fit DI2"


----------



## robdamanii

chinarelloman said:


> they claim that they are 98% alike. Even if they are a little off, they still look great.
> here is a direct quote
> "This Time RXRS frame is 98% exactly same as orginal, only the headset change to 1 1/8' to 1 1/2' and BB 30 not fit DI2"


So you're trusting the counterfeiter to know the proprietary weave and layup of the genuine article?

I've got a bridge I'll sell you in Brooklyn.


----------



## mjdwyer23

FTR said:


> I cannot work out whether you guys are for or against, but I personally have no issue with him carrying open mold frames.
> It is when he posts up a pic of a FM098 with full S-works paint that it becomes a problem.


It'll be a problem too when they start showing up on eBay! I have an FM098 with black and red paint, no decals. I've had it next to a real venge, and they are actually quite different. It is a great bike, but these guys might be in for a surprise if they think they can pass it as a venge.


----------



## cydswipe

pelly said:


> Has anyone been able to source this TT frame from any of the Chinese sellers?


Where is the front brake cable going? Is it going into the frame behind the stem?


----------



## maxxevv

There's a new sub-900g frameset it seems. FM066. I'll be extremely impressed if the weight claims are within 50g !


----------



## Bridgey

chipgrafx said:


> Thanks qatarbhoy. I was actually leaning towards Red shifters and rear derailleur with Force being used everywhere else.
> 
> I am currently using a compact FSA crank set that I would like to just swap onto the new frame but I thought I read somewhere about possible incompatibilities with SRAM front derailleurs. Can anyone confirm or deny this?


I've had no problems with SRAM front derailleur and my FSA SL-K chainset/rings. Changes nicely. It is actually a perfect fit. I can get the chain to go on the large front Chainring (52T) and rear cassette on both the bottom cog (11T) and on the 2nd from the top (23T) without chain rub. I use to have to click it once on the lever to bring the front derailleur back in a little to do this. I'm using the FSA Super N10 chainrings. compact 52/38.


----------



## beston

maxxevv said:


> There's a new sub-900g frameset it seems. FM066. I'll be extremely impressed if the weight claims are within 50g !


Interesting! This is clearly their attempt at a Cervelo R5. I can appreciate that they have stated "can do any painting as you require,* not include famous logo*". However, the paint scheme in this photo certainly resembles the styling of the R5.


----------



## Cinelli 82220

*Great Keen Quality Control*

From the Great Keen bike ad...I've saved this pic because they will change it as soon as they see it here


----------



## Gimme Shoulder

Popcorns a popp'n. 5, 4, 3.....


----------



## MTBMaven

FTR said:


> I cannot work out whether you guys are for or against, but I personally have no issue with him carrying open mold frames.
> It is when he posts up a pic of a FM098 with full S-works paint that it becomes a problem.


We're on the same page FTR. I don't really care if Mathot sells re-badged, open model frames. I think he's/they have put together a nice looking line up of bikes. 

Also agree it's not cool with folks badge their open mold frames with proprietary brands. If it's for personal use it just shows a lack of imagination IMO. If one tries to pass off their open mold frame as a Pinarello or other name brand bike that is just fraud.


----------



## savagemann

Nice. At least it's not riveted onto the frame.


----------



## FTR

MTBMaven said:


> We're on the same page FTR. I don't really care if Mathot sells re-badged, open model frames. I think he's/they have put together a nice looking line up of bikes.
> 
> Also agree it's not cool with folks badge their open mold frames with proprietary brands. If it's for personal use it just shows a lack of imagination IMO. If one tries to pass off their open mold frame as a Pinarello or other name brand bike that is just fraud.


The other thing that irritates me is that Coolhand only said about this about a page ago.
More proof that people just dont read the forum (or only read what they want to read).


----------



## powking12

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Who did you order this from and why the 'couple' of months? e-Hongfu said they could ship the frame out the following week after I have paid them ... ok ok .


The long lead time was because I ordered the frame in matte UD and the wheels in gloss UD. Neither of these finishes were in stock for the frame and size I needed.


----------



## zender

cydswipe said:


> Where is the front brake cable going? Is it going into the frame behind the stem?


Dont think so. Looks to be coming out of the left basebar, down left of the steerer/stem and to the caliper. the other 3 cables enter the frame behind the headtube. Seems to be a common setup for TT/Tri, even my dengfu has that.


----------



## maxxevv

beston said:


> Interesting! This is clearly their attempt at a Cervelo R5. I can appreciate that they have stated "can do any painting as you require,* not include famous logo*". However, the paint scheme in this photo certainly resembles the styling of the R5.


They have taken many design cues from the R5, but if you compare them side by side, think the internal cabling on this one is neater and makes for a pretty cool package. Personally, I think think this is closer in some design details to the R3 mixed with some from the R5, and their own design input which is the internal cabling. ( Which I think is neater, though installation and maintenance may be a pain to deal with...) 

But honestly, I wasn't even considering it because of the similarities with the R5/3, but more of the weight and ultimately, its whether the geometry is right. 

So far, the WS02 geometry would be about perfect for me, the FM028/29 is a close second. . 

I've generally found Hongfu geometry to be off for me. Would have to look at the geometry charts first.


----------



## FTR

Ghost56 said:


> Oh hey look it looks like a Cervelo R5/3 we cant have this its clearly promoting counterfit/fraud products oh noes.....
> Really a person can paint/design there own bike any way they want. If they want it to look like a Venge let them a Trek why not. If your gullible enough to belive its the real article, dont kick up a stur when you find out its not.
> .


Ummmm, no.
It can look like whatever it wants.
It is a problem when you pass it off as the original with full branding.


----------



## maxxevv

FTR said:


> It can look like whatever it wants.
> It is a problem when you pass it off as the original with full branding.


Agreed. :thumbsup:


----------



## kanekikapu

mmmm the fm066 SL sounds really nice. Definitely another frame to consider. 

I kept looking at the pictures and thought it is interesting to see they put a hole for the cable in the seat tube between the BB and carbon braze on…


----------



## FTR

Ghost56 said:


> So a bike can be painted like a Venge and its ok? But it cant have a Sworks on the Downtube or something like that?
> So if a FM015 has a Trek on the downtube, its not ok?
> It also wouldin the China thread if it were ORIGINAL.
> 
> What are you getting at, its very inconsistent.


Ghost, simple answers are:
Yes
Yes
You have no idea what you are talking about
No it isn't.

Similar looking is not counterfeit.
Painted and badged identically is.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

My take is any frame with proprietary branding is not allowed irrespective of whether the actual frame looks like the original or not. An Original is also not allowed as it is not a Chinese Open mold frame. And as to why the clamp down? Well, I think it was because of the various concerns put out by various members in another thread. Sometimes certain systems can be allowed to go on as long as there are no complaints, but once a discussion starts to bring up possible infringements, then action will take place. World's not perfect ... there are pot-holes everywhere.

So back to the topic ... has anyone used a Compact chainset on any one of these frames? Cheers.


----------



## FTR

Ghost
You are wrong again.
And if you dont like the rules then leave.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

kanekikapu said:


> mmmm the fm066 SL sounds really nice. Definitely another frame to consider.
> 
> I kept looking at the pictures and thought it is interesting to see they put a hole for the cable in the seat tube between the BB and carbon braze on…


Di2 cabling???



Ghost56 said:


> ... If you look back a page, you will see that someone does have one with a compact chainset.


Can you let me know what was the post #? Was it a 50/34 chainset? Compact also comes in 52/36 if I am not wrong ...

Sorry my mistake for not indicating that I was hoping to use a compact 50/34 chainset ... Cheers.


----------



## maxxevv

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Di2 cabling???


That should be for the normal FD cable. If you look at other picts, There is another separate hole in the front of the seattube which is meant for Di2 cables.


----------



## Eyon

After over 1000 miles on my FM015 I've decided I need to put some stickers on it for the summer. Love this bike so much (though I wouldn't get the ISP next time), it just needs something "extra".

What would you all recommend?? I'm after something classy sounding to go with the classy riding frame 

FM015 ISP 58cm. Force/Rival shifters and mechs, FSA chainset and Planet X Brakes. Aksium wheels with Ultremo ZX rubber (though it now has much nicer white tyres).


----------



## Coolhand

*Moderators Note*



Ghost56 said:


> It wilnever be badged identically cause the curves of bikes are different for each frame. And i have NFI what im on about really?
> Pointing out all the flaws with this dictatorship of a forum? Yeah nice ass kissing there.
> Your argument is flawed since it changes from page to page, when the points are layed out.
> Anything from China will not be a 100% remake of another frame, and as you say Similar isnt counterfit. So Painting and bading will still make it Similiar but not. :O
> 
> 
> 
> If you look back a page, you will see that someone does have one with a compact chainset.


Seeing the no trolling the thread rule isn't sinking in for you, let me help.


----------



## Coolhand

Coolhand said:


> Seeing the no trolling the thread rule isn't sinking in for you, let me help.


 And you had already been perm banned once explains things.


----------



## maxxevv

Eyon said:


> After over 1000 miles on my FM015 I've decided I need to put some stickers on it for the summer. Love this bike so much (though I wouldn't get the ISP next time), it just needs something "extra".
> 
> What would you all recommend?? I'm after something classy sounding to go with the classy riding frame
> 
> FM015 ISP 58cm. Force/Rival shifters and mechs, FSA chainset and Planet X Brakes. Aksium wheels with Ultremo ZX rubber (though it now has much nicer white tyres).


Think your online name here "EyON" doesn't sound too bad. As long as you can find the appropriate fonts or artwork to represent it.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

Eyon said:


> ...
> What would you all recommend?? I'm after something classy sounding to go with the classy riding frame
> ...


That is a very nice colour scheme ... how did you do it? Just using masking and etcetc? 

BTW is that a standard 53/49 chainset you are using there ... How much space do you have between the lower part of the FD and the chainstay, when you are on the smaller chainring?



maxxevv said:


> Think your online name here "EyON" doesn't sound too bad. As long as you can find the appropriate fonts or artwork to represent it.


It is all about the FONT :7:


----------



## Eyon

Font is no issue, I'm a graphics designer so I have and endless selection or I'll make my own 

As for the paint, its just a standard scheme that Hong-fu have done for a few people, I just said I wanted white with a semi-metallic blue, and they came back with this, it was perfect!!

As for the Eyon name, it was a way I'd describe the pronunciation of my name to non-English speakers with my old job. My name is Ian so I was endlessly called I-on, Iron or Lan so needed a way to spell it phonetically.

Brand names have never been a strong point for me to think of, so any input would be great!!


----------



## mfuchs

sorry wrong forum. I thought I posted in another place. Post removed


----------



## maxxevv

Lighter pedals ? A Ti S.Record cassette ? 

Think you'll get plenty of qualified answers over at Weightweenies forum instead ??


----------



## Seneb

mfuchs said:


> Anybody have any other cheap ideas for weight savings?


Cheap ideas? Not really. Check out Stealth Cycling. Oh, and good luck with the Zero G brakes. I hated mine. Stopping was ok, but they would never stay centered for very long.


----------



## mfuchs

Seneb said:


> Cheap ideas? Not really. Check out Stealth Cycling. Oh, and good luck with the Zero G brakes. I hated mine. Stopping was ok, but they would never stay centered for very long.



I like my Zero G's. Once I got the cable length right I have had no problems. They are a little finicky to set up but once they are right they are great.


----------



## maxxevv

mfuchs said:


> I like my Zero G's. Once I got the cable length right I have had no problems. They are a little finicky to set up but once they are right they are great.


It also depends on the cable housing you use. It generally works better with those ultra-flexible housings like Nokon or I-Links.


----------



## mfuchs

maxxevv said:


> It also depends on the cable housing you use. It generally works better with those ultra-flexible housings like Nokon or I-Links.


I'm using Yokazuna cables and housing so not exactly the most flexible housing you can get but it does work well.


----------



## GiantTCR

*FM066 Price and details*

FM066+FK007+SP006: $620
headset:$15
the ship cost: $85
4% for charge: $30(by paypal)
the total price: $750

From Jenny @ HongFu
"the weight is 780-920g.and it is T1000,BB30.
it is a new product,and now we only have 52/56cm.
if you want 54cm,you need wait about 60 days."

Video of the frame testing:
FM066-TEST | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Pictures:
Flickr: HongFu Bikes' Photostream


----------



## kanekikapu

yea i figured it's a hole for Di2.. but the hole (i am referring to the opening in the back of the seat tube right above the chain stay) seems pretty big just for cables. Hopefully I can get some close up from them soon.


----------



## foofighter

beston said:


> Interesting! This is clearly their attempt at a Cervelo R5. I can appreciate that they have stated "can do any painting as you require,* not include famous logo*". However, the paint scheme in this photo certainly resembles the styling of the R5.


this thing looks awesome



GiantTCR said:


> FM066+FK007+SP006: $620
> headset:$15
> the ship cost: $85
> 4% for charge: $30(by paypal)
> the total price: $750
> 
> From Jenny @ HongFu
> "the weight is 780-920g.and it is T1000,BB30.
> it is a new product,and now we only have 52/56cm.
> if you want 54cm,you need wait about 60 days."
> 
> Video of the frame testing:
> FM066-TEST | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
> 
> Pictures:
> Flickr: HongFu Bikes' Photostream


So it's frame FM066, Fork FK007, and seatpost? SP006?

that's decent price


----------



## FTR

Eyon said:


> After over 1000 miles on my FM015 I've decided I need to put some stickers on it for the summer. Love this bike so much (though I wouldn't get the ISP next time), it just needs something "extra".
> 
> What would you all recommend?? I'm after something classy sounding to go with the classy riding frame
> 
> FM015 ISP 58cm. Force/Rival shifters and mechs, FSA chainset and Planet X Brakes. Aksium wheels with Ultremo ZX rubber (though it now has much nicer white tyres).


Classy?
Anchorman/ Ron Burgundy immediately springs to mind.


----------



## GiantTCR

foofighter said:


> this thing looks awesome
> 
> 
> 
> So it's frame FM066, Fork FK007, and seatpost? SP006?
> 
> that's decent price


Indeed, I may spring for this instead of the Chinarello since it can come in t1000


----------



## foofighter

@gianttcr: keep me at least updated on what you decide, it's looking promising for me as well.


----------



## GiantTCR

foofighter said:


> @gianttcr: keep me at least updated on what you decide, it's looking promising for me as well.


I will, I just emailed greatkeen to see what they say.


----------



## Mite

Hey Everyone,

So I have been reading endlessly for days in 5.0 thread and this thread, I reached the end of this thread (skipped a few pages ) and decided to ask a question! 

I've been riding past few years on an old steel bike, I'm now riding 200km/wk or more depending if I have time. 

I have priced out a hongfu bike with the parts required. I am wondering if there is anyway to get the cost cut down, am i missing anything, and any other tips... 

hongfu 
fm001 + fo001 325
wheelset 435
stem 30
handlebar 60
seatpost 35
saddle 60
2x cage 22
seatclamp 10
Shimano 105 7pc Group 400

Total 1377 (without shipping) approx 1500$ w/ shipping?

I'm by no means a pro racer or biker so any suggestions on getting $$ lower would be appreciated even if sacrificing to a cheaper group? 

is the above total reasonable? I have priced other sites (ebay e_baygoods, flyxii, )

great keen im waiting on a response but i assume it will be much higher..

Thanks!

Mite


----------



## PaxRomana

This new HongFu frame is a game-changer. They are now showing videos of their testing, easing any QC concerns. They are also now using higher-quality materials and getting the weight down on the frames.

Frankly, this is a good thing for consumers.


----------



## jordo_99

Cinelli 82220 said:


> From the Great Keen bike ad...I've saved this pic because they will change it as soon as they see it here


Haha, nice to see someone else caught that.


----------



## ntb1001

Is this frame available Di2 ready??


----------



## squirrelflip21

*Fm066 bb*

I really like this frame and I hope the BB is strong along the chainstays to the seat tube compared to the FM-015 - looks really thin around there.


----------



## foofighter

that's part of the design  makes it more vertically compliant


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

squirrelflip21 said:


> I really like this frame and I hope the BB is strong along the chainstays to the seat tube compared to the FM-015 - looks really thin around there.


That sharp angle does not look clean ... and the front portion between the same seattube and downtube is also not as smooth as the FM015.


----------



## squirrelflip21

foofighter said:


> that's part of the design  makes it more vertically compliant



+1 for verticle compilance.


----------



## MTBAlex

jordo_99 said:


> Haha, nice to see someone else caught that.


What am I suppose to see here? I'm so confused.


----------



## kanekikapu

MTBAlex said:


> What am I suppose to see here? I'm so confused.


backward braze-ons


----------



## MTBAlex

Oh lol. Thx for satisfying my curiously. I was looking all over for cracks or holes and it was right in front of my face.


----------



## sefjlksnc

first, a big THANK YOU to everyone for sharing your experiences! and of course also for all the pictures, there are some truly stunning builds around here! i had been thinking about a chinese carbon build for a while, and after reading through every post starting from v5 the decision process was a whole lot easier. a few weeks ago, i ordered an FM028 from [email protected], and everything went really smoothly. i was especially surprised about the delivery time - it took 5 days from china to my door in the eastern us!

i also got an HB005 integrated handlebar, and, while the overall quality appears great, i do seem to have some trouble with the internal cable routing for the brake cable/housing, in that there appears to be quite a bit of friction due to the tight turns. after the cable comes out at the hoods, it has to immediately turn back into the handlebar. this turn is pretty closely followed by another turn in the opposite direction within the handlebar. I assume it is those tight turns that generate considerable friction. The issue is much less pronounced for the shifter cables/housing, which i assume is at least partly due to the fact that it takes the larger-radius path within the handlebar. the housing i used is standard jagwire. i also tried to run the cable without housing, but you could hear the scratching within the handlebar, so i would be reluctant to use cable only. I'm also not sure if using a liner only would be a good idea. if the liner is pressed against an edge in a tight turn, it seems like it would just wear through in little time when the cable moves against it. Does this issue seem familiar to anyone? How did you address it? 

partly related to this question: i was considering to use some nokon housing, but i'm not sure how to set it up in the context of internal routing. if you use it all the way through (assuming you can), i would think that you would have a hard time getting the links back out. if you stop the housing at the handlebar, the pull on the cable might also 'suck' the housing into the bar. did anyone use nokon housing with the hb005 bar, or a comparable inernally routed bar?

of course there is the ultimate option of routing externally, but i'd sort of like to get the internal working. 

finally - i have a third question related to the handlebar: this is my first carbon bar, and i'm a little paranoid about potentially damaging it with the shifter clamp. the HB005 is pretty much a compact design, so the radius of the drops is pretty small. the surface of the bar is rough only where the radius is smallest, with the result being that the pressure when tightening the shifter clamp is largest on the edges of the clamp. this seems like it would put the majority of the clamping force onto a pretty small area, and i'm concerned about cracking the carbon. in terms of fit i would be comfortable putting the shifters higher up on the handlebar which would avoid the tight radius. but, because the hb surface isn't rough there, i would need a higher clamping force to prevent slipping. in general, i try to limit carbon clamping forces to 5nm, but this number becomes less useful when the area the force is applied to becomes very small due to different shapes of the mating surfaces. any input on this issue would be much appreciated, especially because it is a safety concern more than anything else.

thanks again, everybody, for sharing your experiences, and of course feel free to ask if you have any questions..


----------



## maxxevv

foofighter said:


> this thing looks awesome
> 
> 
> 
> So it's frame FM066, Fork FK007, and seatpost? SP006?
> 
> that's decent price


The price and specs are enticing indeed. The only things holding me back are really the geometry. And a bit of the internal cabling concerns. Though I'll be fitting it with Di2 ( Like on my current Colnago EPS, which I may let go at some stage), but its still a bothersome thing even for brake lines. At this point, its a toss-up between this and the WS02. 

Anybody got the geometry charts for the FM066 yet ?


----------



## maxxevv

mfuchs said:


> I'm using Yokazuna cables and housing so not exactly the most flexible housing you can get but it does work well.


Yes, if you can nail the length perfectly, its not a real issue. What I was referring to is that its easier to get it fitted up with those ultra-flexible casings as it means that specific lengths don't need to be so exact as they will still work and not de-center the calipers so easily like regular cables.


----------



## squirrelflip21

maxxevv said:


> The price and specs are enticing indeed. The only things holding me back are really the geometry. And a bit of the internal cabling concerns. Though I'll be fitting it with Di2 ( Like on my current Colnago EPS, which I may let go at some stage), but its still a bothersome thing even for brake lines. At this point, its a toss-up between this and the WS02.
> 
> Anybody got the geometry charts for the FM066 yet ?



Here is the geometry chart for the FM066. It's similar to an R5 but with internal cable routing.


----------



## maxxevv

Thanks!!! 

That looks ok but still doesn't take the cake for me. The top-tube length added with the seat-tube angle is a wee bit too long for comfort. On the overall scheme of things, it adds up to be almost 10mm longer than my current bike. And the head-tube is about 10mm too low for my liking for my equivalent size. 

Think I'll look at the WS02 more closely instead. 

Thanks again.


----------



## AppleCyclingComputer

How do the cables run on an MC053? Do you run housing full length? How is road noise? 

Anyone that has built one up, if you could PM me, I'd really appreciate it.


----------



## beston

maxxevv said:


> Personally, I think think this is closer in some design details to the R3 mixed with some from the R5, and their own design input which is the internal cabling.


Most of the frame design features are taken straight from the R5, such as the tapered tubes on the down tube and seat tube. This isn't present on the R3 (More of a straight tube).

The internal cabling would add a 'considerable' (in the weight weenie sense) amount of weight to a frame that is aiming to be very light.

Clearly, they have not used BB right design here though (which is used on both R3/5)


----------



## sandman77

AppleCyclingComputer said:


> How do the cables run on an MC053? Do you run housing full length? How is road noise?
> 
> Anyone that has built one up, if you could PM me, I'd really appreciate it.


Or just post it here as I m sure others will be interested.


----------



## GiantTCR

squirrelflip21 said:


> Here is the geometry chart for the FM066. It's similar to an R5 but with internal cable routing.


Excellent, where did you get the chart from. 

Greatkeen replied to my email and said this: "How about RFM201 or RFM102?
thanks"

I was like WTF, I asked about the FM066....:mad2:

I sent them another email, hopefully they will give me what I asked for.


----------



## squirrelflip21

GiantTCR said:


> Excellent, where did you get the chart from.
> 
> Greatkeen replied to my email and said this: "How about RFM201 or RFM102?
> thanks"
> 
> I was like WTF, I asked about the FM066....:mad2:
> 
> I sent them another email, hopefully they will give me what I asked for.




I got the chart from here: 2013 HongFu new carbon road frame super light - Detailed info for 2013 HongFu new carbon road frame super light,carbon road frame super light,2013 HongFu new carbon road frame super light,FM066 on Alibaba.com

Maybe GreatKeen hasn't got their supply of these frames yet?


----------



## GiantTCR

squirrelflip21 said:


> I got the chart from here: 2013 HongFu new carbon road frame super light - Detailed info for 2013 HongFu new carbon road frame super light,carbon road frame super light,2013 HongFu new carbon road frame super light,FM066 on Alibaba.com
> 
> Maybe GreatKeen hasn't got their supply of these frames yet?


Doh, I overlooked that chart, is it me or do the holes for the bottle cages look a bit unfinished?


----------



## Seneb

GiantTCR said:


> Doh, I overlooked that chart, is it me or do the holes for the bottle cages look a bit unfinished?


I see three holes in the down tube.


----------



## jordo_99

sefjlksnc said:


> ...
> [Stuff about internal cable routing that I can't help with]
> ...
> 
> finally - i have a third question related to the handlebar: this is my first carbon bar, and i'm a little paranoid about potentially damaging it with the shifter clamp. the HB005 is pretty much a compact design, so the radius of the drops is pretty small. the surface of the bar is rough only where the radius is smallest, with the result being that the pressure when tightening the shifter clamp is largest on the edges of the clamp. this seems like it would put the majority of the clamping force onto a pretty small area, and i'm concerned about cracking the carbon. in terms of fit i would be comfortable putting the shifters higher up on the handlebar which would avoid the tight radius. but, because the hb surface isn't rough there, i would need a higher clamping force to prevent slipping. in general, i try to limit carbon clamping forces to 5nm, but this number becomes less useful when the area the force is applied to becomes very small due to different shapes of the mating surfaces. any input on this issue would be much appreciated, especially because it is a safety concern more than anything else.
> 
> thanks again, everybody, for sharing your experiences, and of course feel free to ask if you have any questions..


I've put down a layer or two of electrical tape under my light mounts to make sure they don't slip at all and I've never had a problem other than residue. I've done the same thing on my aluminum drops to hold cables in place before bar tape and it leaves a lot of (easy to clean up) residue. Not sure it will help you out a lot but I'd imagine the tape would absorb a small amount of the pressure on top of adding a lot of grip.


----------



## jordo_99

The 5.0 forum was too beastly for me to handle after 15 minutes of searching (not skimming/browsing) on this so I'm asking it here:

Why is it that a lot of people order their frames and a spare headset as well? Until recently, I'd only ridden with a threaded headset so I apologize if this is a silly question. Sheldon Brown wasn't much help either at estimating the life of thread-less headsets and determine if that was the intent for ordering a spare.


----------



## Seneb

jordo_99 said:


> The 5.0 forum was too beastly for me to handle after 15 minutes of searching (not skimming/browsing) on this so I'm asking it here:
> 
> Why is it that a lot of people order their frames and a spare headset as well? Until recently, I'd only ridden with a threaded headset so I apologize if this is a silly question. Sheldon Brown wasn't much help either at estimating the life of thread-less headsets and determine if that was the intent for ordering a spare.


Personally, I wouldn't order a spare headset. However, I did order a spare derailleur hanger.


----------



## GiantTCR

Seneb said:


> I see three holes in the down tube.


Yes that seems odd since you would not be able to screw in 2 screws in different positions because of how close they are...hmm


----------



## ntb1001

GiantTCR said:


> Yes that seems odd since you would not be able to screw in 2 screws in different positions because of how close they are...hmm



I think the extra holes are for Di2 wiring.


----------



## ntb1001

squirrelflip21 said:


> I got the chart from here: 2013 HongFu new carbon road frame super light - Detailed info for 2013 HongFu new carbon road frame super light,carbon road frame super light,2013 HongFu new carbon road frame super light,FM066 on Alibaba.com
> 
> Maybe GreatKeen hasn't got their supply of these frames yet?


I have sent emails to Greatkeen....they don't have this yet, nor is it scheduled any time soon


----------



## jordo_99

Seneb said:


> Personally, I wouldn't order a spare headset. However, I did order a spare derailleur hanger.


Hadn't thought of that. Unimpressed myself on that too as I'm currently at odds with my racing frame due to a snapped hanger that nobody can fix in the Midwest. I was going to try and get it welded back on (aero seat tube so a clamp isn't possible) but no one works with aluminum so I'm going to try and get one riveted back on over the next few weeks.


----------



## andyhopey

lyot2003 said:


> Does that ISP use a stubby ? Great looking frame, I dig the matte black finish. What's the weight of the frame (it looks like a 54 or 56, right ?)


The Frame size is 50cm and the bike weight is 7kg. The ISP comes with a stubby seat post thing. The bike handles like a dream, very fast  love it. Looks a very mean bike


----------



## kanekikapu

jordo_99 said:


> Hadn't thought of that. Unimpressed myself on that too as I'm currently at odds with my racing frame due to a snapped hanger that nobody can fix in the Midwest. I was going to try and get it welded back on (aero seat tube so a clamp isn't possible) but no one works with aluminum so I'm going to try and get one riveted back on over the next few weeks.


Have you tried looking up aftermarket hanger at Wheels Manufacturing?


----------



## andyhopey

PaxRomana said:


> Yes. Time are made in France.
> 
> Anyway, that is a nice bike andyhopey. I really like those stealth black matte frames. The 039 seems quite popular. There are a few others on here who have built up some really good looking bikes with that frame.


Thanks  She is a nice bike in my eyes.


----------



## FTR

kanekikapu said:


> Have you tried looking up aftermarket hanger at Wheels Manufacturing?


Someone way back said that the hangers used on these frames are a very common generic one.


----------



## zigmeister

jordo_99 said:


> The 5.0 forum was too beastly for me to handle after 15 minutes of searching (not skimming/browsing) on this so I'm asking it here:
> 
> Why is it that a lot of people order their frames and a spare headset as well? Until recently, I'd only ridden with a threaded headset so I apologize if this is a silly question. Sheldon Brown wasn't much help either at estimating the life of thread-less headsets and determine if that was the intent for ordering a spare.


The problem I ran into, Miracle trade sent me the incorrect headsets. Thus, I had no headset at all!

So, after a few trials, I found a good one that works. Now I have an extra Ratio Tacto headset tapered that works on most of the frames, brand new.

If interested, shoot me a PM, I've got it on eBay now trying to unload it.

I would definitely get an extra one, you never know what they may/may not send you, or if there is some issue with one of the cheapo headsets they send, you might need extra parts.

Just a thought and suggestion.


----------



## jordo_99

zigmeister said:


> I would definitely get an extra one, you never know what they may/may not send you, or if there is some issue with one of the cheapo headsets they send, you might need extra parts.
> Just a thought and suggestion.


That's pretty much what I had chalked it up to...just having a spare in case something goes wrong. Sucks about your situation though...I'd read that and I think that's what prompted me to consider a spare if I ordered...but $40 is still a decent amount of money to just have in case something goes wrong (not as far as a $750 order goes...but $40 is a nice dinner with the girl or a few cases of beer if you don't have one )

I'll still be considering it either way. My impatience would make waiting around difficult if "china" messed up the order but my situation doesn't NEED a new bike anyway which is why I'd consider skipping the extra headset and deal with any headaches.

If the headsets aren't that great and need replacing down the road that's an entirely different issue and ultimately what prompted me to ask about them.



kanekikapu said:


> Have you tried looking up aftermarket hanger at Wheels Manufacturing?


Just looked but couldn't find a rivet-on front hanger (163 rear hangers but not 1 front? lol)

Previous hanger was welded/brazed on but I'm going to sand it down and then drill holes for a rivet-on hanger and get that done...I just don't have a riveter as of yet so I'm trying the LBS(s).

Sorry if this was a hijack...definitely not my intention on the first post and only posting this time to deter multiple posts asking about this. If anyone has advice and such a PM would be awesome rather than continuing to go off-topic.


----------



## FTR

Jordo
Do you mean the braze on for the front derailleur?
There was a post about this in this very thread.
Go back a few pages and you will find it.
Pretty sure it was a Specialized braze on that was used.

Dont know why you would bother getting a spare headset myself when Cane Creek and FSA make ones that will slip straight in.


----------



## GiantTCR

FTR said:


> Jordo
> Do you mean the braze on for the front derailleur?
> There was a post about this in this very thread.
> Go back a few pages and you will find it.
> Pretty sure it was a Specialized braze on that was used.
> 
> Dont know why you would bother getting a spare headset myself when Cane Creek and FSA make ones that will slip straight in.


It was a specialized one that was used, it had to be ground down a bit to fit.


----------



## jordo_99

FTR said:


> Jordo
> Do you mean the braze on for the front derailleur?
> There was a post about this in this very thread.
> Go back a few pages and you will find it.
> Pretty sure it was a Specialized braze on that was used.
> 
> Dont know why you would bother getting a spare headset myself when Cane Creek and FSA make ones that will slip straight in.


Sorry for the confusion, I was referring to my Quattro Assi (alu-carbon) frame which is not Chinese hence the hijacking comments. It has an aluminum, aero seatube that had a weld/braze-on front hanger which broke so I'm trying to get it fixed locally (Quatro owner retired along with the warranty service last year ).


I think I'm going to pass on a spare headset if I order just for the sake of being a cheapskate.


----------



## maxxevv

FTR said:


> Dont know why you would bother getting a spare headset myself when Cane Creek and FSA make ones that will slip straight in.


Well, I'll get them purely for the bearing spares. These cost US$15 a set, buying FSA / Cane Creek ones would cost US$20 just for one of the bearings.


----------



## maxxevv

jordo_99 said:


> Sorry for the confusion, I was referring to my Quattro Assi (alu-carbon) frame which is not Chinese hence the hijacking comments. It has an aluminum, aero seatube that had a weld/braze-on front hanger which broke so I'm trying to get it fixed locally (Quatro owner retired along with the warranty service last year ).


As far as I understand with the trade, Quattro Assi are Taiwanese / Chinese sourced and rebadged framesets. Only difference is that he started it maybe about 7-8 years ago. Earlier than most of these 'upstarts' we see now. He probably retired coz he couldn't find a viable business model to mold it into as these alternative options were making margins untenable ... .


----------



## Mankul

zigmeister said:


> The problem I ran into, Miracle trade sent me the incorrect headsets. Thus, I had no headset at all!
> 
> So, after a few trials, I found a good one that works. Now I have an extra Ratio Tacto headset tapered that works on most of the frames, brand new.
> 
> If interested, shoot me a PM, I've got it on eBay now trying to unload it.
> 
> I would definitely get an extra one, you never know what they may/may not send you, or if there is some issue with one of the cheapo headsets they send, you might need extra parts.
> 
> Just a thought and suggestion.


Why didn't you ask Miracle Trade to just send the correct one..... since its your right to request for the right one....


----------



## Hiro11

AppleCyclingComputer said:


> How do the cables run on an MC053? Do you run housing full length? How is road noise?
> 
> Anyone that has built one up, if you could PM me, I'd really appreciate it.


They have integral liners and integral alloy cable stops. The housing you'll need is only for the cable lengths outside the frame. The front mech cable needs a bit of housing under the bb shell, the rear mech cable is entirely internal

Good news:
It all works with very well with low friction.
It looks nice
It's easy to set up

Bad news:
It rattles a bit on rough roads. Not super loud but a bit irritating.
The rear mech cable comes out right in front of the skewer nut which makes mounting the rear wheel a bit more tricky than it needs to be.

Neither of these drawbacks are deal killers. The point is it works well and looks great.


----------



## zigmeister

Mankul said:


> Why didn't you ask Miracle Trade to just send the correct one..... since its your right to request for the right one....


Please read the thread. I explained and covered all of this.

It sounds so easy to just ask them to admit a mistake and send something you paid for right? Sarcasm...


----------



## jordo_99

well...I'm at the point where I'm ready to buy so I'm starting to price some frames and I'm wondering what others have paid for their FM098 in the past?
I was quoted for $670 and I find that to be pretty high for chinese carbon. Even if that includes the $80+ shipping that is a bit more than I had expected.


----------



## Bridgey

jordo_99 said:


> well...I'm at the point where I'm ready to buy so I'm starting to price some frames and I'm wondering what others have paid for their FM098 in the past?
> I was quoted for $670 and I find that to be pretty high for chinese carbon. Even if that includes the $80+ shipping that is a bit more than I had expected.


The FM098 isn't a normal frame though. It's aero and shares some similaries with the Specialised Venge. I think it is worth it if it includes shipping. or you can go with an ordinary looking $400 chinese frame and pay shipping. I woudln't hesitate if the FM098 is to your liking. I went with the Chinarello myself (self branded). But considered the FM098.


----------



## Seneb

jordo_99 said:


> well...I'm at the point where I'm ready to buy so I'm starting to price some frames and I'm wondering what others have paid for their FM098 in the past?
> I was quoted for $670 and I find that to be pretty high for chinese carbon. Even if that includes the $80+ shipping that is a bit more than I had expected.


If you're into the aero look, check out this one if you haven't already...

FLYXII FLX-FR-315


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

zigmeister said:


> ...
> It sounds so easy to just ask them to admit a mistake and send something you paid for right? ...





Mankul said:


> Why didn't you ask Miracle Trade to just send the correct one..... since its your right to request for the right one....


They are a problem to deal with ...
Miracle is one company I am avoiding ... :frown2:


----------



## calazula

jordo_99 said:


> well...I'm at the point where I'm ready to buy so I'm starting to price some frames and I'm wondering what others have paid for their FM098 in the past?
> I was quoted for $670 and I find that to be pretty high for chinese carbon. Even if that includes the $80+ shipping that is a bit more than I had expected.


I've been eyeing the FM098 myself. After some searching, I found a place that is selling it for $420 + paint costs + shipping costs. Just google. Not as cheap as some of the other frames out there, but not bad for what it is.


----------



## jordo_99

calazula said:


> I've been eying the FM098 myself. After some searching, I found a place that is selling it for $420 + paint costs + shipping costs. Just Google. Not as cheap as some of the other frames out there, but not bad for what it is.


Thanks. I found a thread on Velo that is organizing a group buy for a similar price so I'm probably going to work with them on that.


----------



## RC28

maxxevv said:


> As far as I understand with the trade, Quattro Assi are Taiwanese / Chinese sourced and rebadged framesets. Only difference is that he started it maybe about 7-8 years ago. Earlier than most of these 'upstarts' we see now. He probably retired coz he couldn't find a viable business model to mold it into as these alternative options were making margins untenable ... .



Quattro Assi date back much further back...as far back as the 1990's. 

I remember when I called William Lewis ( back in 95 or 97 I think it was)and asked about the frames - the nice ones made of Easton aluminum tubing with polished stays and forks-and he mentioned that Levi Leipheimer was riding them. My reaction was "Levi who?". (that was back when Levi wasn't that well known I guess...I just remembered because of the particular name.

Lewis was the one that imported Tomassini frames as well.


----------



## pjb0057

Hi all - 1st Message! 

This site has already been very useful.

I am looking for a Carbon Frame like the chaps on pg23 have bought and are using. 
-
I sent Miracle an email with a link to that page showing the finished bike as i couldnt find MC0058 on their site.

Am 6ft 2. Any ideas what sort of size i would need??


----------



## pjb0057

Hi,

Is this the Miracle MC0058? What size? Am looking to order but am a little nervous. Any tips?

Sorry if you've already mentioned this, have read through so many pages.

Thanks in advance
Phil
uk


----------



## apachesix

pjb0057 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Is this the Miracle MC0058? What size? Am looking to order but am a little nervous. Any tips?
> uk


I think you are looking at the Scott Foil Clone - MC0053 also sold by ICAN Sports as the AC-053 (who I bought from).

Finished mine today, here are a few quick pics. Still need a final fitting and steerer cut, but still will test ride tomorrow :thumbsup:
Build was pretty straightforward (my 1st), much thanks to those who built and posted before me on this frame as well as other builds (and to youtube), a lot of good advice.

Quick stats:
Frame: ICAN AC-053 size 54
Wheelset: 50mm clinchers direct from Carbonspeedcycle ($20 less than through eBay)
Components: SRAM Red w/Jagwire Racer 
Brakes: Planet X CNC Ultralight (205g)
Handlebar: Ritchey WCS (al) Pedals: Time RXS
Weight: 15.8 lbs/7.1kg


----------



## mrcreosote

pjb0057 said:


> Hi all - 1st Message!
> 
> This site has already been very useful.
> 
> I am looking for a Carbon Frame like the chaps on pg23 have bought and are using.
> -
> I sent Miracle an email with a link to that page showing the finished bike as i couldnt find MC0058 on their site.
> 
> Am 6ft 2. Any ideas what sort of size i would need??


FWIW "Page 23" doesn't really mean anything, given that you are able to change the number of messages per page in your preferences - better to link to the actual post.:mad2:

and before you ask - go to 'My Account' -> 'Edit Options' (on LHS under Settings and Options) -> scroll down to 'Thread Display Options' and set 'Number of Posts to Show Per Page' ( I have mine set to 100 - if they had more than 100, I would choose that)


----------



## AppleCyclingComputer

Hiro11 said:


> They have integral liners and integral alloy cable stops. The housing you'll need is only for the cable lengths outside the frame. The front mech cable needs a bit of housing under the bb shell, the rear mech cable is entirely internal
> 
> Good news:
> It all works with very well with low friction.
> It looks nice
> It's easy to set up
> 
> Bad news:
> It rattles a bit on rough roads. Not super loud but a bit irritating.
> The rear mech cable comes out right in front of the skewer nut which makes mounting the rear wheel a bit more tricky than it needs to be.
> 
> Neither of these drawbacks are deal killers. The point is it works well and looks great.


Thanks for the helpful explanation. Are the internal liners wide enough to fit Gore Rideon (or similar) liners? The road noise would drive me crazy...


----------



## 2128

wow apache six your car really looks nice!


----------



## solarFlash

apachesix said:


> Finished mine today, here are a few quick pics. Still need a final fitting and steerer cut, but still will test ride tomorrow :thumbsup:
> Build was pretty straightforward (my 1st), much thanks to those who built and posted before me on this frame as well as other builds (and to youtube), a lot of good advice.
> 
> Weight: 15.8 lbs/7.1kg


Nice build Apache, I'm just about to start building up my 053. Just wondering if you pressed in the headset and BB30 bearings or did you take it to a LBS?

I bought from ICAN, absolutely first rate service for those deciding who to buy from at the moment. Janice was the seller, she was very helpful and even corrected some paint work without any fuss after it had been painted. Will post pics once the build is underway.


----------



## apachesix

solarFlash said:


> Nice build Apache, I'm just about to start building up my 053. Just wondering if you pressed in the headset and BB30 bearings or did you take it to a LBS?


Thanks, I did the headset (bearings go in by hand pretty easily), used the thread's old standby - pvc pipe, for the fork crown race. I took it to a LBS for the BB30 (forgot to order the tool and didn't want to wait a couple more weeks, plus labor is cheap here in Peru - parts/tools not so much).


----------



## solarFlash

Thanks! Yeah I was planning on using the pvc pipe for the crown race. I'll probably take it to the lbs for the BB bearings too I think.


----------



## andrewbell

just a quick one.. does anyone know what model number the Cannondale super six evo frameset would be at one of the Chinese sellers?


----------



## cocomo

andrewbell said:


> just a quick one.. does anyone know what model number the Cannondale super six evo frameset would be at one of the Chinese sellers?


There isn't one. These are open moulds not copies of existing models.


----------



## Bridgey

solarFlash said:


> Thanks! Yeah I was planning on using the pvc pipe for the crown race. I'll probably take it to the lbs for the BB bearings too I think.


Guys, it is so easy to press in your own BB30 bearings. Look it up on the internet for homemade BB30 installation tool. 

In short you need a Park or a FSA BB30 installation (cups) tool. Can get it on ebay real cheap. I have the Park one as it is better quality and you get the other size installation tools which is useful for the homemade tool. But the FSA one will do. The great thing is you can also use it for your headset bearings. Pretty much the same size. The BB30 bearings fit perfectly around these which make them easy to press in. 

You then need a fine threaded bolt that has a nice long thread, hopefully all the way if you can, but if not just make sure you get enough washers to compensate so you don't run out of thread. I forget the diameter you need, but buy your FSA installation tool (cups) tool first. Plenty of nice thick washers that fit perfectly around the bolt but are close to as wide as the FSA BB30 installation tools but not over. And of course the screw on nut for the other side. You put your bearings around the installation tool and screw it up. I will usually swap the bolt over to the otherside before tightening it all the way as the bolt side will give a perfect fit vs the nut side. Perfect everytime. No problems.

The tool has easily paid for itself when you take into consideration the cost of doing the headset and the bottom bracket alone. Plus I've done it about 4 times now. I change my BB bearings fairly regularly as they are pretty cheap to buy. Trust me it's worth buying the installation tool. Anyone can do it. Just look it up on the internet first. I don't go to my lbs for anything. Too expensive.


----------



## Quevedosh

*FR-106 from 88BIKEFUN from ebay*

Hi guys I'm new here. I just got my frameset and some wheels from 88BIKEFUN (FLYXII) from ebay, I want to do some paint job on it but I need some advises, the frame have clear-coat or lacquer on it and I don't know if I should sand it or paint on top of the clear-coat and how I should do it. I do not want to damage the carbon.

Just for the records, I ordered March 12 at night and I got it yesterday (7 business days, I'm New York City). They respond all my emails in less than 12h and gave me T# and everything. I'm in love with the frame and the wheels.


----------



## Rob81

which company/reseller is this on ebay?
they have a new frame that I don't find anywhere else but doesn't match my size


----------



## Seneb

Rob81 said:


> which company/reseller is alibaba808 on ebay?
> items in alibaba808 store on eBay!
> they have a new frame that I don't find anywhere else but doesn't match my size


www.flyxii.com

I ordered from them on Friday (via PayPal invoice from them, not through eBay) and am having a bit of communication trouble now.


----------



## Rob81

my mistake I was foolished by the watermark, the ebay shop is another one: maniac_bicycle
But I found and they have only 52 on Flyxi too, thanks!


----------



## bernard29

@Quevedosh
I hope to see your painting job soon ! I follow this thread ( 5 and after 6) since one month to have new ideas and don't know yet wich TT frame i'll buy :idea:


----------



## pjb0057

apachesix said:


> I think you are looking at the Scott Foil Clone - MC0053 also sold by ICAN Sports as the AC-053 (who I bought from).
> 
> Finished mine today, here are a few quick pics. Still need a final fitting and steerer cut, but still will test ride tomorrow :thumbsup:
> Build was pretty straightforward (my 1st), much thanks to those who built and posted before me on this frame as well as other builds (and to youtube), a lot of good advice.
> 
> Quick stats:
> Frame: ICAN AC-053 size 54
> Wheelset: 50mm clinchers direct from Carbonspeedcycle ($20 less than through eBay)
> Components: SRAM Red w/Jagwire Racer
> Brakes: Planet X CNC Ultralight (205g)
> Handlebar: Ritchey WCS (al) Pedals: Time RXS
> Weight: 15.8 lbs/7.1kg





Yes thats the frame, thanks for your help! Your bike looks very nice!

I have been incontact with them and they are saying a 58cm frame isnt ready till end of May - may have to look else where.

How was the maiden ride?


----------



## Quevedosh

I'll post some pic... I guess it's gonna take me 2-3 weeks I'm still waiting for some stuff.


----------



## MTBAlex

What type of BB is on the Greatkeen chinarellos?


----------



## Bridgey

MTBAlex said:


> What type of BB is on the Greatkeen chinarellos?


Standard English 68mm but you can request a BB30. It just takes longer.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

zigmeister said:


> ...
> So, after a few trials, I found a good one that works. Now I have an extra Ratio Tacto headset tapered that works on most of the frames, brand new.
> ...


Which headset did you use in the end?


----------



## apachesix

1st ride done on the AC-053, so here are my thoughts: WOW!

Context - this was my first time on a full carbon bike. My Masi is Aluminum w/carbon seat stays and this bike absorbs so much road vibration and shock in comparison. I did get some of the internal cable rattles on rougher patches (of which we have plenty here in Lima) but it wasn't too bad. I also had a couple creaks in the seat tube, but in my haste to ride forgot to paste it before adjusting. Even so it didn't slip.

I only did 13 miles but did two climbs and a couple of loops on my regular circuit here. The handling is razor sharp, almost twitchy but not enough to unnerve me. This may also be my sensation because I am changing from a 58 to 54 bike (bad "fitting" at the only shop in rural KY, and since I hadn't ridden a road bike in 20 years I didn't know any better - mostly fixed with a change to a 90mm stem and some other adjustments a year later at a real fitting)

It is unreal how pressure from the foot tranlsates to the rear wheel, I felt like my leg was directly connected. Bottom bracket stiffness = A+. It was much easier to get up to speed, half probably because of the overall stiffness and the other half due to being 5-6 lbs lighter than my prev steed. This made for great climbing even though I'm out of shape having only started riding again 3 weeks ago after being out a couple months with a calf tear.

As for the aero qualities, I will do some velodrome runs this weekend to compare but I did my 2.6mi circuit within a couple seconds of my PR. Today was with traffic, PR was with roads closed to cars and 60 deg, today 80 deg and PR was with clip on aerobars & TT helmet - same wheels for both. Not sure if that is all to the shape of the bike but it just felt like I could go faster with the same effort as before and going downhill it felt like it blasted off.

So far I am just stoked and looking forward to more time on it. "If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up."


----------



## 1805078

Quevedosh said:


> Hi guys I'm new here. I just got my frameset and some wheels from 88BIKEFUN (FLYXII) from ebay, I want to do some paint job on it but I need some advises, the frame have clear-coat or lacquer on it and I don't know if I should sand it or paint on top of the clear-coat and how I should do it. I do not want to damage the carbon.
> 
> Just for the records, I ordered March 12 at night and I got it yesterday (7 business days, I'm New York City). They respond all my emails in less than 12h and gave me T# and everything. I'm in love with the frame and the wheels.


I have been eyeing this frame off for a little while....was worried it looked very heay for a TT frame. Any chance of putting it on the scales for me. 

ALSO....did they not offer a painting service for you??

cheers


----------



## jordo_99

apachesix said:


> 1st ride done on the AC-053, so here are my thoughts: WOW!
> 
> So far I am just stoked and looking forward to more time on it. "If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up."


It is so choice


----------



## Seneb

I just got my tracking info from Flyxii and it shows that my frame left Hong Kong on the 19th, passed customs in the US on the 21st, and is now in transit. I'll probably be checking it several times a day looking for updates. I love getting new toys.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

Anyone with the FM015 frame from Hongfu, can I just check if you have any cable rattle as the cable for the rear brake is internal?

On another note, is there a 'recent' frame that does NOT have internal cables and with braze-on FD mounts?

Cheers


----------



## Quevedosh

@1805078 I did not ask for painting service I wanna do it my self. Send them an e-mail, they will answer. It feels very light, but I'll try to put it on the scales tonight for you.


----------



## Quevedosh

*Technical question*

A sram force front derailleur will work with a vision trimax compact crankset (50/34)?


----------



## maxxevv

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> anyone with the fm015 frame from hongfu, can i just check if you have any cable rattle as the cable for the rear brake is internal?
> 
> On another note, is there a 'recent' frame that does not have internal cables and with braze-on fd mounts?
> 
> Cheers


fm028.


----------



## FTR

maxxevv said:


> fm028.


FM028 has an internal running rear brake cable.


----------



## Guest

Does anyone know when the Hongfu FM066 will become to order?


----------



## Vee

metanoize said:


> Does anyone know when the Hongfu FM066 will become to order?


I believe they are avaialble. Jane of HongFu is actually on the "other forum" and posted quite a bit of information and videos about this frame. I think they have 52 and 56cm in stock.


----------



## Guest

Thanks, what "other forum"? I'm looking for size 50.


----------



## AppleCyclingComputer

I was told by Jane (and later, Linda) the only in-stock size on the FM-066 was 56. 52 was 60 days out. I am ready to buy this frame, but by paying now and waiting 60+ means that if something goes wrong, you are out of the PayPal dispute window.

If someone has contact info for a seller that does have the 52cm FM-066 in stock, please let me know.


----------



## sefjlksnc

jordo_99 said:


> I've put down a layer or two of electrical tape under my light mounts to make sure they don't slip at all and I've never had a problem other than residue. I've done the same thing on my aluminum drops to hold cables in place before bar tape and it leaves a lot of (easy to clean up) residue. Not sure it will help you out a lot but I'd imagine the tape would absorb a small amount of the pressure on top of adding a lot of grip.


thanks, I'll try that. Even if it doesn't help much in terms of pressure, it certainly wouldn't make it any worse.


----------



## maxxevv

FTR said:


> FM028 has an internal running rear brake cable.


Oh dear... I actually read it as only referring to the shifter cables ! :blush2:


----------



## csneom4a1

Has anyone had any problems with any saddles or seatposts purchased from these Chinese suppliers? I am thinking about picking one up.


----------



## zigmeister

I apologize first, this is a long build review. I wanted to hopefully cover everything related to the build and bike at one time now that I have it basically complete and am riding it solely as my only bike for training/racing.

Ordered the MT-MC053 frame from Miracle Trade on 2/23. Communication with Mecy Lin was good. They replied everyday to questions, sometimes 2x/day if I was up later at night ask questions.

After sorting out the details and exact specifications I placed the ordered. Ordered the frame in 54cm Matte Black. I also ordered 1 additional headsets rear hanger to have as spares.

Photos were provided several days later for approval before shipping. Frameset was shipped and arrived 9 days later in Florida. Shipping time I was impressed with. The box arrived in excellent condition, frame and parts were wrapped very well, nothing had any signs of damage. I took many photos of the frame and closeups of parts. If people want any of those pics uploaded, I can do that. Otherwise, I just posted the completed bike build with specs below.

Upon arrival, I noticed that the headsets didn't seem like they were normal and the sizes looked 1-1/8" top/bottom for the bearings, race crown. Turns out, Miracle sent me the wrong headsets. Also, I was missing 1 extra rear hanger that I ordered. After approximately 5 days of emailing back/forth with Mecy Lin regarding the wrong headsets being sent, I gave up on them. They continued to say they were the correct ones, that I didn't know how to build a bike and I needed to take it to my LBS and have them build it. I finally had to write the words "Paypal dispute" in an email to get their attention that I was tired of the run around and just wanted a refund my money for the two headsets and 1 extra rear hanger. They immediately agreed they were wrong and I had a refund of about $32 the next day. The money wasn't the issue, their attitude and continued insistence that the correct headset was sent, after me sending multiple photos and caliper measurement to them, is what bothered me most. They didn't handle the customer complaint very well at all. Not surprising I guess. A language barrier had nothing to do with this. They basically didn't want to take responsibility and just ship me the $8 worth of parts to me without question to make me happy when they were clearly in the wrong. Also, as I covered in a post in this thread, who knows even if waiting, I would have received the correct parts. So, I didn't feel like waiting 4+ weeks to get a frame built up and just sitting in my garage and went the refund route and source my own headset. Not worth the stress and hassle. Although finding a headset that fit well was a bit of a pain.

Besides the incorrect headset and missing rear hanger, all other items were in excellent condition, parts well manufactured, finish nice and overall quality seemed well done.

I ended up getting a few headsets, I finally tested and settled on a Ritchey Pro Logic drop-in tapered for about $32 delivered off eBay.

Ritchey Logic - Road - Headsets - Threadless Drop-In - Pro Logic Zero Tapered 1-1/8" - 1.5"

Upon arrival, the top/bottom bearings fit well. Both bearings have just a touch of play once inserting them in the frame. After greasing them up and assembling, then snugging up the compression fitting to tighten it, it moves freely with no play at all back/forth in the forks, yet swings freely on the bearings. Race crown fits well with some force as expected. Overall, a quality product at the right price and fits well. In the end, I'm glad I didn't get the cheapo Neco headset H373 model. It delayed the build by about 1 week waiting for the part, but now I have a matching stem, and can get handlebars if desired for a complete matching quality cockpit if I want.

The rest of the build went normally with a few minor things to take note of when assembling:

1) Bottom bracket fit fine. I didn't waste anytime worrying about facing the metal like is often recommended. I just screwed the SRAM GXP BSA BB in the frame with grease, tightened to specs, no problems. Also, I ran the setup without the spacers, although Sram documents say with a 68mm BB, to used the spacers. If I used the spacers, the crank arm when tightened to specs would seize the bearings and wouldn't turn freely. So I went with the no spacer setup and crank arms torqued to specs worked perfect. 

But, this is important. With this setup, running something longer than 172.5mm crank arms, you might have an issue with the arm coming very close to the rear stays and possibly touching. With my SRAM Red 172.5mm cranks, the inside of the very end of the cranks arm is about 2mm from touching the rear stays as they move past. If you adjust your cleats so your toes will point outward and heels inward, like I do slightly, your heels will come very close to touching the stays further back also within a few mm. I wear a 44.5 Specialized Road Comp Pro shoe just as a reference. Seems like they could have kept the stays slightly narrower the first 1/3 from the BB, then flare them out at a greater angle. Also, when I ran first installed the BB with the spacers, the distance from the crank arm was normal/fine. So, possiblyl a different BB might affect how far the crank arms pass to the rear stays? 

My heels nor cranks have touched the frame so far. I think that the up-pedal stroke has basically no torque, but the downside of the other side of course does. From the crank shootout Fairwheel bikes did, deflecting a crank even less than a mm is difficult to do. BB/frame flex though might be a different story.

Maybe others can comment on this issue. I'm just putting the disclaimer out there and people with different shoes/cleat setup, BB, or longer cranks, it could be a potential issue that could render your frame you just got shipped from China worthless. Particularly if there is no spacer for the BSA used like mine. 

2) Rear derailleur cable hole comes out right in front of the skewer mount in the drop. The rear Foil frame it comes out above and behind the drop out stay. If you had your wheel mounted with the skewer attached, and the nut side of the skewer (drive side) is larger in diameter than some, it forces the cable to go upward a few mm at an angle. You actually can't run the cable and get it to insert in the inner routing hole properly if the wheel/skewer is on. You have to put the cable on, and when you put the wheel on, have the bike on the ground, put force on it, and it will push the cable upward slightly (1-2mm) so the skewer will sit flush on the frame dropout. Also, I used a smaller nut from a set of titanium skewers so there isn't so much pressure on the cable forcing it to move upward and deflect it to keep a smooth cable actuation. Thus, a larger diameter skewer nut on the drive side in the rear is not recommended. YMMV.

3) As a few other bikes are designed, there is no bottom bracket plastic cable guide piece for the front derailleur to run across the bottom bracket surface. You are expected to cut a piece of cable housing with the end-caps, and run it through the two single holes. After a few cuts, you can get the angle just right. After tensioning, the FD cable housing doesn't flex and the shifting is smooth. A pretty good system and protects the cable from dirt/debris IMO. I like this design better than my Supersix plain cable guides where dirt/debris and crap get all over this, you have to keep it clean and lubed to avoid premature wear. Not so with this setup!

4) All internal cable runs were smooth and feeding my Jagwire racer cables through the internal routing I experienced no snags or rough spots. All shifting and braking work excellent. As others mentioned, the internal cable routing housing sometimes will make a buzzing sound over certain bumps. I guess they didn't silicon the housing to the frame except at the ends near the frame holes. Some people have used a very light pillow filling from a fabric store to stuff in the down tube/top tube to dampen the noise. It hasn't bothered me yet and only happens infrequent on particular roads. If it continues, I might do the pillow stuffing trick.

5) Drop outs front/rear were perfectly straight, as well at the rear hanger and front hanger. I setup my SRAM Red FD with no issues, didn't put much effort into anything but a visual alignment and measure height over my Rotor QRings. Front shifting with the SRAM Red steel cage has been excellent and reliable. Rear shifting and alignment was also easily setup and shifting has been excellent. No complaints. I also put a inline cable adjuster barrel on the RD line. I find that is the one that sometimes is a problem at times due to cable stretch or cable housing flexing as you ride and things settle causing some excessive noise on the rear cogs. Nice to finally have the ability to tweak the rear tension during a ride without stopping.

Also, some people have said the FD mount can be too high and running a compact setup would lead to the FD not being able to go low enough. This isn't an issue with SRAM Red/Force FDs. They have two mount bolt holes in the FD for just this reason. So, I would say the FD design is more of the issue, not the frame FD braze on mount location height. But that is my two cents. I run 52/39T QRings and it works fine and height is not an issue.

6) The seat post and clamp is a very clever design. The one issue I ran into, there was some carbon/debris on the inside of the seat tube that wouldn't allow me to push the seat but about 1/3 of the way down the tube. I had to take a file and smooth the tiny hump to allow the seat to slide up/down to where I needed it to. The front of the seat post has an abrasive/sand paper like finish where the rear of the compression clamp presses against the v-shape. The metal clamp is also abrasive/fine sand paper finish to provide more grip against the post. The expansion system used when tightening the clamp works great, I only use about 4nm of torque on it along with some carbon paste on the post. I've noticed some creaking once in awhile over some surfaces...but it doesn't happen all the time. If it continues, I will investigate further. Otherwise, the post hasn't slipped one time and is very secure.

7) Fork. Be careful if you are buying a compression top cap system. There are different internal diameters, and some expansion fittings, like Ritchey' (which I wanted to match my headset and stem) is a slightly oversized version which doesn't fit down the internal diameter. Edit: went to LBS where a mechanic friend had a few used spare expansion pieces, found one to fit and work with my ritchey top cap. Looks good and matches now.

How the bike rides. Basically, I stripped my Cannondale Supersix and re-used every part except the seatpost, Sram Red clamp-on FD with titanium cage and crankset (Sram Red BB30). I purchased a new Red GXP Crankset, GXP Team BB, SRAM Red Black FD with steel cage, and new cables, then built the frame.

The reason I mention this, everything is basically identical to my old frame, so comparing the ride is accurate.

I must say, the frame is pretty darn stiff, I notice what I would describe as a slightly "smoother" ride over the road surface compared to my Supersix, and the ride is not quite as jarring as my Supersix. This might be partly due to the fact I'm back to an offset seatpost. There was no zero-offset option with this frame. I can definitely feel the seat/post flexing with the offset it has. Does that mean the frame is less stiff? I don't know. I can't say at this point with certainty that I feel the frame is "flexy" compared to my Supersix. I just notice the ride is smoother. Which is cool, because now I can run a few more lbs of pressure in my tubulars and adjust/tune the ride quality. With about 5lbs more air, I can make the MC053 frame have a very similar to my Supersix. I guess only a test rig would be able to tell how much stiffer the BB, stays and frame is overall. Hard to tell actually. Which is a good thing in my opinion. It "feels" stiff to me still and not flexy, so that means something.

I've put about 100 miles on the frame in the last week. When climbing, I don't really notice any loss of power that maybe be thought of as flex. But, I do notice the slight better aerodynamics of this frame over the Supersix. The fat downtubes and design of the CDale isn't very aero at all. In fact, it is probably one of the least aero hig-end road frames around these days. With my more aero position setup on this new frame (Supersix is a 56cm frame, and I ran zero offset on the seatpost with a 110 10 degree stem). I would guess that a .5-1mph gain in overall speed is reasonable to claim. But speed is a relative term and I don't like to make references to. What I would rather claim and note is that it seems I'm putting out less wattage to maintain speed in groups rides and solo. I would say it is a less fatigue type of speed I'm noting due to saving power with the better aerodynamics. Yes, my Garmin 500 does show a faster speed slightly, but there are too many factors that affect speed. That is why I would say the speed in terms of less fatigue, wattage output and better endurance over time and efforts. 

I have yet to jump and do any hard sprints on the bike yet. I had my chance the other day, but the group ride environment didn't really dictate that type of move, so I just sat in. That will be a real tell for me how stiff the frame is and how it handles, when I'm really jumping on it with some big power in a sprint.

I've done a few thousand feet of climbing, and it climbs well. The geometry is nearly identical to the real Scott Foil, but the top tube is flat, whereas the Scott slopes downward slightly from head tube to seat tube. Also, how the rear stays attach to the seat tube/top tube is slightly different if you look closely. But, the down tube, head tube and other aero aspects of the frame all are basically identical to the real thing, which leads me to my statements about better aerodynamics over the Supersix, less fatigue, and still maintains a pretty stiff frame/setup overall.

Cornering is solid and when directing the bike to where you want to go gets an immediate response. In fact, kind of twitchy at times like my Supersix. Partly due to a longer stem. I note that when up out of the saddle coasting with a lot of weight on the bars, the front gets real twitchy. My Supersix does the exact same thing. Although my Supersix I ran a 110mm Pro Vibe 7S stem, it had a 10 degree angle, whereas the Ritchey is a 120mm with 6 degree. Thus, the actual reach from the bars is nearly identical, within a 1-2mm difference due to the less angle of the Ritchey, so the front end stability and twitchiness is very similar feeling to my Supersix in certain conditions. Which is a great thing, since it gives a very familiar response while steering in many situations.

As long as the Chinese basically copied/used the nearly exact geometry of the rear frame, you would expect a very responsive handling design and setup, and I think it provides that well.

Overall, for the $650 I have into this frame/headset and build, I'm very satisfied and pleased with the results. l look forward to some more training and first race on the frame in the coming weeks. If I decide to sell my CDale frame, cranks and FD, I should end up getting several hundreds back out of the swap to this frame and setup once all the money is sorted. I think that is an overall win and positive situation that you can walk away from the process with a few hundred dollars in your pocket, and get a more aero design/setup and overall respectable quality frame on a reasonable budget.

Of course, there is probably no chance of a warranty, no spare parts (they said they won't sell a fork by itself, only complete frame set) and if anything goes wrong, you are pretty much SOL. But then again, go buy a used frame from any manufacture off eBay, have something go wrong with it, you are SOL luck also. So I take this as no real loss or negative, just part of owning a used frame/or frame with no warranty.

If you have any questions, or want me to post more detailed right out of the box photos of specific items, just let me know. I will be happy to share any details or things I may have left out of the build or learned that might help others.

Outstanding items:

1) Possibly cut the fork down another 5mm and remove the one spacer above the 15mm Ritchey cap.
2) Edit, found expansion piece to work with Ritchey top cap and bolt.
3) Get a SRAM Black RD for more stealth action.
4) Get a matching Ritchey WCS alloy handlebar to make my headset/stem and cockpit a complete Ritchey setup. Plus, lose 30-40gms of weight.
5) Switch back to a Specialized saddle that is lighter. Lose another 50-80gms weight. Selle italia is a bit heavy and I need deeper relief channels.

Otherwise, the bike is training/race ready now.

Compete build components and weight below:










Frame: 2012 MT-MC053 54cm Matte Black from Miracle Trade
Fork: Full carbon fork, 1.5 - 1.1/8" tapered steerer
Headset: Ritchey Pro Logic Zero Drop-in Tapered Headset 1.5 to 1-1/8 15mm spacer
Crank: SRAM Red GXP 172.5mm
BottomBracket: SRAM Team GXP BB
Chainrings: Rotor QRings 52/39
Handlebar: Easton EA70 Ergo Aluminum, 31.8, 44cm
Stem: Ritchey WCS 260 BB Black Alloy, 120mm, -6 degree
Wheels: Zipp 303 Firecrest Tubular
Tires: Vittoria Corsa Evo CX 320tpi 23
Chain: KMC X10SL Chain
Rear Cassette: DuraAce 11-23T 
Front Derailleur: SRAM Red Black Steel Cage Braze-on
Rear Derailleur: SRAM Red
Shifters: SRAM Red
Brakes: Sram Force Zipp Platinum brake pads
Saddle: Selle Italia Max Flite Gel Flow 143mm
Seatpost: Carbon offset
Cages: Carbon flat clear coated 
Pedals: Speedplay Zero Stainless
Computer: Garmin Edge 500 w/cadence, speed and HR
Cables: Jagwire Racer Black cable kit brakes/shifters
Bar wraps: Black cork

Total weight 15.6lbs.

I don't have a scale for measuring grams. I'm just using my bathroom digital scale, weigh myself, then myself w/frame and do the math. So I have no component pieces unfortunately of the frame/fork etc weighed. 

All the components and things have posted weights around the web, if I'm bored I will do a spreadsheet for a more accurate weight account. 

My Supersix with the BB30, different saddle and FD w/clamp weighed 15lbs on the button. I would say the MC053 frame set only adds maybe 150gms to the bike weight. The rest is due to the bottom bracket/crank moving to an ENG BSA setup which is nearly 100gms heavier, as well as my chunky saddle I currently have that adds about 100gms. That would make it about 275-300gms heavier, or 7-8oz like the scale is showing.

One last item. While out at the big local group ride last weekend, I had multiple people coming up at our 30 mile break spot asking what kind of frame it is and trying to guess the manufacturer. They all liked the stealth look and so forth. I never had 1 damn compliment on my Supersix ever. And it was pretty badass. I also had a girl at the LBS group ride the other day ask what kind of frame it is and how sweet it looked. They are all surprised and confused when I say it is a Chinese open mold frame. 

Thanks for reading and good luck with your builds. :thumbsup:


----------



## Seneb

zigmeister said:


> 2) Ream the inner fork diameter out 1mm to accommodate Ritchey expansion plug/top cap. Or, just use the star nut to have the logo Ritchey top cap.


Nice writeup, and the bike looks great! Just want to mention that you should not use the star nut on a carbon steer tube. It will score the inside and possibly weaken it. There are quite a few options for expanders. torontocycles.com has a few that are very reasonably priced. Hopefully by this time next week I'll have my FR-303 built and on the road. It was delivered to my wife's office yesterday and we're picking it up today. :7:


----------



## solarFlash

Fantastic writeup Zig! Thanks so much for taking the time to do this, the final build really does look excellent (more pics please!). The build tips are extremely useful, especially as I will be building my 053 in the next week or so (still need to aquire a BB30 crankset and a wheelset!).


----------



## AppleCyclingComputer

Awesome writeup. Can anyone with a 52 cm comment on the crank/stay clearance issue?


----------



## rmwillis

Can I source SRAM rival groupset from china? Not sure I'm in the right thread but would appreciate guidance


----------



## smoo

I've got one - absolutely love it. 

It's a stiff frame under power, so like a lot of modern race frames it feels best when you are pushing it fairly hard. If you are just pootling along it will feel a little dead compared to a more yielding frame, but it really comes alive when you stomp on the pedals. With the Trigon seatpost, which is fairly flexy, it's comfortable over the bumps, so in that respect might be good for centuries. It'd say it's more of a frame for riding hard than for really long days in the saddle, but it would work for both.


----------



## cocomo

In addition to not using a starnut, you cannot ream out or sand the inside of the steerer. you will weaken the matrix and could result in failure once you clamp on the stem.


----------



## Bridgey

rmwillis said:


> Can I source SRAM rival groupset from china? Not sure I'm in the right thread but would appreciate guidance


No need to. If you try british sites like 'Ribble' they are dirt cheap. Ebay is okay too, but I think Ribble is cheaper. The other ones, Wiggles, PBK, Chainreaction, Shineybikes may also have specials.


----------



## peeza21

Im planning on ordering a chinarello from greetkeen bikes in the next couple days. I just joind the forum recently and so far all the greetkeen feedback seems positive.

Is it a place to buy from? yes or no?

How is the ride of these frames?

Was your shopping expierence a good one?


----------



## Seneb

My FR-303 arrived on Friday and I was able to pick it up yesterday from my wife's office. The frame was packaged really well with foam wrapped in lots of places, but the fork was only wrapped in a thin layer of bubble. I bought it in UD gloss and it looks really neat. I don't know if I've ever seen the finish in person, and I like the unfinished, non-pretty, unfinished look of it. The downside is that my seatpost was not in the box. I've emailed them and am hoping they can send it out tomorrow. The headset they sent is the correct size and the seatpost clamp looks decent. I'll start building it up today, and will note any problems I come across. I'm still waiting on a couple other parts and am hoping to be able to ride it by next weekend.


----------



## kanekikapu

Very nice Seneb! Bummer about the seatpost but hope it'll work out for ya. Have you have a chance to weigh the frame and fork?


----------



## atlas182

Quevedosh said:


> Hi guys I'm new here. I just got my frameset and some wheels from 88BIKEFUN (FLYXII) from ebay, I want to do some paint job on it but I need some advises, the frame have clear-coat or lacquer on it and I don't know if I should sand it or paint on top of the clear-coat and how I should do it. I do not want to damage the carbon.
> 
> Just for the records, I ordered March 12 at night and I got it yesterday (7 business days, I'm New York City). They respond all my emails in less than 12h and gave me T# and everything. I'm in love with the frame and the wheels.


I just ordered this same frame from e_baygoods on ebay. Do you have you know what brakes you'll be using yet? I figure I have at least a week till I get my frame so I'm trying to get the rest of the parts together. Also What aerobars do you think you'll be using?


----------



## kanekikapu

Zigmeister, how do you like the new zipp platinum pads? Are they just swissstop yellow in gray color or is there a difference?


----------



## PaxRomana

Seneb, where did you buy that? That's sweet frame.

NM. I saw that you said Flybike. 

Zigmeister - great looking ride too. I love these stealth frames.


----------



## gte534j

nice writeup. read my post a few weeks ago about fixing the creaking in the seat post. Its a fairly easy fix. Also, i used bubble wrap instead of packing foam in the down tube and top tube to stop the buzzing sound of the cables. it drove me nuts.
glad you like the bike, it looks nice. I also have a pair of the zipp 303 firecrest tubular wheels, very awesome stuff.
Ian


----------



## maxxevv

gte534j said:


> nice writeup. read my post a few weeks ago about fixing the creaking in the seat post. Its a fairly easy fix. Also, i used bubble wrap instead of packing foam in the down tube and top tube to stop the buzzing sound of the cables. it drove me nuts.
> glad you like the bike, it looks nice. I also have a pair of the zipp 303 firecrest tubular wheels, very awesome stuff.
> Ian


Yes, foam/bubble packing would be a quick solution. A neater more permanent solution would be 'expanding foam' that is often used to fill voids in the house wall cavities or to provide insulation. But it will require a bit of skill to do a clean and good job.


----------



## jordo_99

For those putting these together themselves...what torque wrench do you use and which would you recommend on a budget?

I'll be getting a FM098 soon and normally I'm all about supporting the LBS but I'll be installing my current groupset and upgrading it piece by piece over the summer. It's just not going to work taking it in every few weeks and it'll also be super expensive. I'll have them build my next wheelset though


----------



## redmr2_man

I wanna see someone build up an fm066. That bike looks amazing. 

Anyone know the differences between the light and the regular carbon?

""Weight: 2 kinds: light(carbon T1000) and heavy( carbon T700), and the light style, can be 800-900g/set" "


----------



## Bridgey

jordo_99 said:


> For those putting these together themselves...what torque wrench do you use and which would you recommend on a budget?
> 
> I'll be getting a FM098 soon and normally I'm all about supporting the LBS but I'll be installing my current groupset and upgrading it piece by piece over the summer. It's just not going to work taking it in every few weeks and it'll also be super expensive. I'll have them build my next wheelset though


Ribble had a few cheap ones but good ones. I ended up getting a Tacx from them for 70AUD. They had a few cheaper but I thought this was the best as it went from 4 to 25NM and provided some fittings. Worth getting one I think.


----------



## bmcv11

Hi Seneb....been looking forward to seeing your photo's as I have the same frame on order.

I ordered a 3k 54cm but was told they only had UD so I accepted that. Due to be dispatched on Wednesday.......can't wait now having seen yours ! It looks superb.....what size it it ?

Will be following your build with interest as this will be my 1st.


----------



## rlafleur

*Nice Chinarello Fork from eBay Bike*

For all you Chinarello fans. This came in to my local LBS. It was the guy's first ride on an eBay Chinarello. Enough said...


----------



## atpjunkie

*any back story*

because you typically don't shear off a fork at the HT w/out hitting something regardless of mfr of origin

oh and I'm not defending, I am no fan of Chinese Carbon, which would include 90% of all CF bikes come to think of it


----------



## cocomo

yeah what is the backstory? how was the crown race fitted for example?


----------



## rollinrob

I have been riding that exact fork for 2 years on my second bike, probably have around 5000 miles on it and still no problems...


----------



## mtor

rlafleur said:


> For all you Chinarello fans. This came in to my local LBS. It was the guy's first ride on an eBay Chinarello. Enough said...


What happened?


----------



## tlg

rlafleur said:


> Enough said...


Ummm not enough said. I can take ANY carbon fork and ride it into a curb and create the same result.


----------



## atpjunkie

*my thoughts as well*



tlg said:


> Ummm not enough said. I can take ANY carbon fork and ride it into a curb and create the same result.


say 15 mph into a large object


----------



## Seneb

@bmcv11 - I ordered a size 50 (53.4 top tube). It's interesting that they only list 3K on the website. I wanted UD and asked if they had any. It's really a neat finish and a nice departure from how most carbon bikes look.

As for the seatpost issue, here is the response from Flyxii: "please double check the package , the seatpost should in the box. now please take some photo about the package, then we send photos to us, we will check it with out carrier, there's weight on shipping bill, thanks"
I sent them a link to my Flickr set with the photos and also took a photo of the weight listed on a tag on the top of the box. I can't imagine how one would miss finding a seatpost in the box. Maybe a clamp, but not an entire post. Hopefully they'll be cool about it and send one out to me. If not, whatever. I feel the frame is worth much more than I paid and I will just not buy from them again. I forgot to mention how fast the shipping was. I paid on a Friday morning and the frame arrived the next Friday (I'm on the central coast of California). Nashbar shipping is slower than that.

So, build update... I stole the seatpost and seat from one of my mountain bikes to use until the seatpost issue is sorted. The crown of the fork is really deep, so a long brake nut is necessary. I have mine on with a 20mm bolt without the toothed washer between the fork and back of brake, and it is not on the stud very far. I'm going to order a 25mm bolt (hopefully ti) for more security. There is plenty of clearance (a lot) between my 172.5mm cranks and the chain stays. You could run 180s and be fine. Note, I'm using Campy Chorus cranks, but I assume they would be around the same width as the other guys. The frame finish is amazing, at least as good as my Colnago, better in some areas. The dropout width is perfect, about 1-2mm wider than the axles, so the wheel easily slides in. The front fork does have the lawyer tabs on it and the dropouts appear to be full carbon. The BB shell needed no prep work whatsoever. Headset went in fine. I'm not stoked on the compression nut that came with the headset, but it does the job. I'll be ordering a carbon one to replace it, but that's just personal preference. The headset that comes with the frame has good looking sealed bearings that spin smooth. The top ring and cap both have FLYXII etched in the black anodizing, which I will probably "fix" before I'm done. The frame also came with bottle cage bolts - standard chrome. I changed them for some red alloy ones. The internal cable routing is nicely done. So far I have only installed the rear brake, but it was easy since they have the guides there. The stops are internal and sized to use a ferrule on the cable. On the bottom side, a cable guide is installed for the F&R derailleurs, which was a nice surprise. I also ordered their carbon seatpost clamp which came in a 3K finish. It went on just fine and secured the post with 5nm torque. It doesn't say on the clamp, so I based it on other clamps I use. At 4nm I was able to twist it. BTW - I'm using the Nashbar torque wrench for the small stuff and it works great. For the cranks I use my automotive torque wrench.

Here is a build update pic (from my cell). Before anyone asks - NO, it is not clamped. Just lightly snug resting there.


----------



## Seneb

I forgot to mention - I just started a Flickr group for photos of the Chinese carbon frames. If any of you use Flickr, please add your photos.

Flickr: Chinese Carbon Frames


----------



## Seneb

tallywacker said:


> @Seneb — Would really be interested in more pics once the builds complete. I don't know if you have a better camera or not, not looking for studio quality shots per se, but if you could get some macro shots of the carbon, some close ups of the cable routing and a few whole bike shots outdoor or better lighting without the interior shadows it would be greatly appreciated. Build looks really nice so far :thumbsup:


No problem. I'm planning on taking better shots with my SLR. I'll get some before I finish the build as well.


----------



## tallywacker

@Seneb — Would really be interested in more pics once the builds complete. I don't know if you have a better camera or not, not looking for studio quality shots per se, but if you could get some macro shots of the carbon, some close ups of the cable routing and a few whole bike shots outdoor or better lighting without the interior shadows it would be greatly appreciated. Build looks really nice so far :thumbsup:


----------



## wiRIDEfast

interesting, nearly the same thing happened to my trek madone riding on a somewhat bumpy wooden plank style bridge. I ride my chinese carbon on it nearly every day,never happens. 

Is trek worse than chinese carbon? No! Sometimes its a freak thing that happens. It doesnt mean that it will happen every time. People can ride whatever they want, and if a guy wants a high end bike but cant afford a name brand, then sure why not go chinese carbon knock off?

Its not like they are taking jobs away from americans, italians, germans, etc. None of this crap is made in america or the said countries anymore.

Hitting anything at a decent speed will cause a break, no matter the brand.


----------



## svard75

wiRIDEfast said:


> interesting, nearly the same thing happened to my trek madone riding on a somewhat bumpy wooden plank style bridge. I ride my chinese carbon on it nearly every day,never happens.
> 
> Is trek worse than chinese carbon? No! Sometimes its a freak thing that happens. It doesnt mean that it will happen every time. People can ride whatever they want, and if a guy wants a high end bike but cant afford a name brand, then sure why not go chinese carbon knock off?
> 
> *Its not like they are taking jobs away from americans, italians, germans, etc. None of this crap is made in america or the said countries anymore.*
> 
> Hitting anything at a decent speed will cause a break, no matter the brand.


Not entirely true. Keeping in mind there is a chain distribution where the MFG sends the frames out to the channels and the bike shop owners or resellers then resell and make a profit so yes you are taking money away from americans, italians, and germans.


----------



## Goodbarsix

That is going to make an awesome toilet paper holder!


----------



## MTBAlex

hopefully the OP will post the story behind it otherwise this is a wasted thread.


----------



## wiRIDEfast

pretty sure i didnt say anything about taking cash out of the hands of those people, i said jobs. They're not taking any jobs away. So a shop owner doesnt get filthy rich from insane markups on bikes....who cares!
This past month a local bike shop was going to charge me 100 for a neco headset! No way, i ordered it from overseas. I'm not paying for 3 people to markup and get rich off it.


----------



## jtheat

*Neuvation FC500*

The Neuvation FC500 is indeed the Trigon RQC29. John Nugent, owner of Neuvation, talks openly about Trigon being his supplier of frames. I own the FC500, and it's a great ride. The only limitation is me, not the bike. I ride centuries, I live in the mountains of CA, and get in a good 4500 miles a year. I completely enjoy this bike. Cannot go wrong for price, quality or customer service from Neuvation. Enjoy the ride!


----------



## bmcv11

@Seneb.......Brilliant reply and very informative, answering a lot of ?? I had in my mind.

Very fast delivery.....mine will probabily be a bit longer as I'm in Lancashire UK.

Bit unfortunate they omitted the seatpost, but as you say for what we're paying, as long as the frame & forks are good quality & finish, then it's no big deal. Hopefully they will send you one.

Look forward to more pics and ride impressions....thks.
Bill


----------



## LONDON-GUY

Seneb that is a nice looking bike in the making what are the wheels you have fitted ? as I like the look of those


----------



## Seneb

LONDON-GUY said:


> Seneb that is a nice looking bike in the making what are the wheels you have fitted ? as I like the look of those


They are Easton EA90 Aero wheels - 28mm front, 32mm rear. I used to ride Ksyrium ES Anniversary wheels and felt somewhat unstable in cross winds, possibly due to the fat spokes. These Eastons are smooth and stable. I would like less branding on them, but the graphics are not removable.


----------



## tallywacker

*nevermind*

my bad


----------



## PlatyPius

tallywacker said:


> my bad


Wise choice.


----------



## svard75

wiRIDEfast said:


> pretty sure i didnt say anything about taking cash out of the hands of those people, i said jobs. They're not taking any jobs away. So a shop owner doesnt get filthy rich from insane markups on bikes....who cares!
> This past month a local bike shop was going to charge me 100 for a neco headset! No way, i ordered it from overseas. I'm not paying for 3 people to markup and get rich off it.


I understand were you're coming from. I'm guilty for the same reason. What I wanted to prove was by buying direct from those who will sell direct is that you're taking business away from the English, Italian and German bike shop owners where the markup you're talking about helps pay for the bike shop owners lease, puts food on the table for him and his family and helps pay the salary of any employees he's got helping him out. I guess you should have been a bit more specific and said it won't take any manufacturing jobs away from them.


----------



## PlatyPius

wiRIDEfast said:


> pretty sure i didnt say anything about taking cash out of the hands of those people, i said jobs. They're not taking any jobs away. So a shop owner doesnt get filthy rich from insane markups on bikes....who cares!
> This past month a local bike shop was going to charge me 100 for a neco headset! No way, i ordered it from overseas. I'm not paying for 3 people to markup and get rich off it.



Where are these "filthy rich" bike shop owners? I've never met one, unless they were already rich. The best way to end up with a million dollars owning a bike shop is to start with 2 million.

If you mean the bike shop owner makes maybe $25,000/year - and you consider that to be filthy rich - then maybe it's your perceptions that are the problem...


----------



## zigmeister

Seneb said:


> Nice writeup, and the bike looks great! Just want to mention that you should not use the star nut on a carbon steer tube. It will score the inside and possibly weaken it. There are quite a few options for expanders. torontocycles.com has a few that are very reasonably priced. Hopefully by this time next week I'll have my FR-303 built and on the road. It was delivered to my wife's office yesterday and we're picking it up today. :7:





cocomo said:


> In addition to not using a starnut, you cannot ream out or sand the inside of the steerer. you will weaken the matrix and could result in failure once you clamp on the stem.


Yes thanks. I ended up stopping by the LBS where I know a mechanic and he had a few expanion stubs that were used he said I could have/try. I found one that fits and the Ritchey cap/bold from the new WCS Pro headset that worked fine. It got the headset tight, then handlebar torque ensured it is secure. 

So I got the right expansion piece now and have a nice matching headset, stem and top cap.


----------



## zigmeister

kanekikapu said:


> Zigmeister, how do you like the new zipp platinum pads? Are they just swissstop yellow in gray color or is there a difference?


They are labeled Swisstop. And seem just like some yellows i have. So basically, wouldnt be surprised if they are just grey and packaged differently since zipp has yellows as oficial pads too.


----------



## zigmeister

wiRIDEfast said:


> interesting, nearly the same thing happened to my trek madone riding on a somewhat bumpy wooden plank style bridge. I ride my chinese carbon on it nearly every day,never happens.
> 
> Is trek worse than chinese carbon? No! Sometimes its a freak thing that happens. It doesnt mean that it will happen every time. People can ride whatever they want, and if a guy wants a high end bike but cant afford a name brand, then sure why not go chinese carbon knock off?
> 
> Its not like they are taking jobs away from americans, italians, germans, etc. None of this crap is made in america or the said countries anymore.
> 
> Hitting anything at a decent speed will cause a break, no matter the brand.



Arent most treks built in china these days? Serious question.
s question.


----------



## zigmeister

AppleCyclingComputer said:


> Awesome writeup. Can anyone with a 52 cm comment on the crank/stay clearance issue?


If you look at the geometry, all sizes have a 405mm distance from the BB to the rear dropout. So size shouldnt matter. I know thats what he said.


----------



## Bridgey

svard75 said:


> I understand were you're coming from. I'm guilty for the same reason. What I wanted to prove was by buying direct from those who will sell direct is that you're taking business away from the English, Italian and German bike shop owners where the markup you're talking about helps pay for the bike shop owners lease, puts food on the table for him and his family and helps pay the salary of any employees he's got helping him out. I guess you should have been a bit more specific and said it won't take any manufacturing jobs away from them.


Who is going to feed my family? If all I have is $1500 to spend on a bike, I want to get the best my money can buy. $1500 doesn't buy much from a bike shop these days. But it sure buys a lot from these Chinese Direct places. 

For $1500 you can get from Asia a bike comparable to a $3000 one or more in the shops. So at the end of the day, I have to make the choice between riding a sub par bike from a shop for $1500 or a formula 1 clone for the same from Asia. Or I can spend $3000 in a bikeshop for the bike I really want, but then who feeds my family and pays my bills. 

Until these bike companies stop ripping us all off with these extravagant prices, then this is the way it has to be for me. I feel no guilt. After all, It's not like I'm calling my Chinarello a Pinarello.


----------



## Coolhand

> For $1500 you can get from Asia a bike comparable to a $3000 one or more in the shops.


This myth needs to go away. Its simply not true. For $1500 you are getting $2000-$2200 worth of low end open mold 3rd tier brand maybe. Of course you are trading any warranty support, your time (or a shop' labor charge) and a bit of risk on the deal. And many buyers here clearly understand the trade-off. More experienced riders often know their fit well enough, and have the tools and skills to build up their own bike, or want to try it for the first time with a cheaper frame. And that's an understandable choice. 

But your not getting the frame the open mold sellers are trying to imitate, especially if its a high end Taiwanese made model. Nor are you getting the QC, customer service, warranty and testing behind it. If you spent any time in.around the industry, you would know that the margin on high end bikes is terrible. In fact, if the LBS sold you a set of high end road shoes and helmet he probably made more on those than the bike, especially once you factor in shipping/labor/carrying costs. 

So to be clear, not as good as $3k bike for $1500. The global economy doesn't work that way. 

But, is it the best value an experienced rider/wrench (especially one with some parts lying around) can get for the money? You certainly could argue that. Is it a cheap way to make your own brand, with your own logos and head badge (yeah- and that's kind of cool). Are they bad frames? Probably not- especially if you read through these threads and are very careful who you deal with (research is your friend).


----------



## Seneb

As requested, I took more photos of the cable routing last night. Click here for the rest of the photos.










Crank clearance:


----------



## svard75

Bridgey said:


> Who is going to feed my family? If all I have is $1500 to spend on a bike, I want to get the best my money can buy. $1500 doesn't buy much from a bike shop these days. But it sure buys a lot from these Chinese Direct places.
> 
> For $1500 you can get from Asia a bike comparable to a $3000 one or more in the shops. So at the end of the day, I have to make the choice between riding a sub par bike from a shop for $1500 or a formula 1 clone for the same from Asia. Or I can spend $3000 in a bikeshop for the bike I really want, but then who feeds my family and pays my bills.
> 
> Until these bike companies stop ripping us all off with these extravagant prices, then this is the way it has to be for me. I feel no guilt. After all, It's not like I'm calling my Chinarello a Pinarello.


Don't know where you're getting your numbers from. Please list a detail of all parts to build your bike for $1500. I really want to see this. Oh and you cannot include parts you had in a bin unless you include the original purchase price.

For example SRAM Force groupset what does that retail these days? $700? Then you need a wheelset. Even a crappy wheelset will set you back at least $200. What about the frame/fork, stem, headset, spacers, seatpost, cables, saddle? You can get all that for $600 including shipping?

For example my Rock Racing replica cost me this:

FM015 ISP frame/fork painted $850
This included:
headset
seatpost topper
handlebar
stem
extra derailleur hanger

SRAM red black groupo $1,850
complete drivetrain

Carbon clintchers stradalli $900

saddle - $175
seatpost topper (Ratio Tacto, cause I didn't like the one that comes with the frame) - $170
headset - (Ratio Tacto, same reason didn't like the NECO) - $45
Pedals - $125

It all adds up. The issue I think here is that as a one time purchase it's harder to dish out more than $1500 but easier when buying little by little.

IMO of course.


----------



## Seneb

svard75 said:


> For example my Rock Racing replica cost me this:


Do you have a photo? I'd love to see the replica.


----------



## tallywacker

Seneb said:


> Do you have a photo? I'd love to see the replica.


Svard75's got a great looking bike — Scroll through Flickr: Svard75's Photostream


----------



## svard75

Seneb said:


> Do you have a photo? I'd love to see the replica.


Here's an updated photo. I've created so many online photo sharing sites I don't even remember which ones I use anymore. I tend to use Picasa most now.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/2s5O_ktGYhZLUaATssn5ZVhnvcbuZjyt3kcFh1s-QMQ?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ijUt0Fl8_BY/T2Ywf1B-CII/AAAAAAAAABk/MBPFF33NiO0/s800/IMG_1299.JPG" height="533" width="800" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/105099584504060580911/Bikes?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCObN7837i8e4pwE&feat=embedwebsite">Bikes</a></td></tr></table>


----------



## DudeMtn

svard75 said:


> Here's an updated photo. I've created so many online photo sharing sites I don't even remember which ones I use anymore. I tend to use Picasa most now.
> 
> <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/2s5O_ktGYhZLUaATssn5ZVhnvcbuZjyt3kcFh1s-QMQ?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ijUt0Fl8_BY/T2Ywf1B-CII/AAAAAAAAABk/MBPFF33NiO0/s800/IMG_1299.JPG" height="533" width="800" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/105099584504060580911/Bikes?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCObN7837i8e4pwE&feat=embedwebsite">Bikes</a></td></tr></table>


Svard, nice rig man!, So sweet. And NO, I guess I would not expect to get THAT bike for $1,500  however, I did build my modest ChinaVelo FMO15 for that and love it. I have ridden numerous higher end bikes at the LBS and ones owned by friends (Specialized, Willier, Look, Trek etc.) My china rig with Shimano 5700 black groupo and $250 Vuelta Pro wheels rides almost as well. I did say almost.


----------



## Mr.Habanero

Hey guys. I am having an issue with my FM098 seat post seat clamp assembly. There is no tilt adjustment. I am assuming that the black medial part of the clamp is suppost to rotate to give me my angle. But its stuck at 90 deg. and l cant ride that. Im guessing that its stuck with resin somewhere. Crap, what am l suppost to do?


----------



## jordo_99

svard75 said:


> Don't know where you're getting your numbers from. Please list a detail of all parts to build your bike for $1500. I really want to see this. Oh and you cannot include parts you had in a bin unless you include the original purchase price.


here's what I'm working on (some stuff not ordered yet but these are the prices I should be getting):

Added up my costs of everything an LBS bike comes with (cables/group/frameset/etc...no clothes/pedals/shoes/helmet). Total is $1600-1650. Frame is FM098 with a carbon cockpit and Force-level group and Neuvation R28SL wheelset and good tires.


The way I see it, a LBS provides a service and just happens to carry products (like an auto shop)...when you buy something from your LBS you are paying for their expertise in building the bike and the support that comes with it (usually tune-ups/adjustments for a year or something similar). Also the LBS will work with you if something breaks to take out the frustrations of dealing with the manufacturer. If they have the part in-store they'll replace it and deal with the broken one. They'll find some way to keep you riding instead of waiting for the manufacturer to replace the part(s). I'll also be ordering a front hanger from them as mine broke...might even have them rivet it back on.

These things are very important to some people. I'm not one of them becuase I'm frugal (AKA a cheap-ass) and also enjoy working on my bikes (unless they're not working). I still throw some money at my LBS from time to time but as far as buying parts from the LBS...I prefer to do look around and source my own.


----------



## Bridgey

svard75 said:


> Don't know where you're getting your numbers from. Please list a detail of all parts to build your bike for $1500. I really want to see this. Oh and you cannot include parts you had in a bin unless you include the original purchase price.
> 
> For example SRAM Force groupset what does that retail these days? $700? Then you need a wheelset. Even a crappy wheelset will set you back at least $200. What about the frame/fork, stem, headset, spacers, seatpost, cables, saddle? You can get all that for $600 including shipping?
> 
> For example my Rock Racing replica cost me this:
> 
> FM015 ISP frame/fork painted $850
> This included:
> headset
> seatpost topper
> handlebar
> stem
> extra derailleur hanger
> 
> SRAM red black groupo $1,850
> complete drivetrain
> 
> Carbon clintchers stradalli $900
> 
> saddle - $175
> seatpost topper (Ratio Tacto, cause I didn't like the one that comes with the frame) - $170
> headset - (Ratio Tacto, same reason didn't like the NECO) - $45
> Pedals - $125
> 
> It all adds up. The issue I think here is that as a one time purchase it's harder to dish out more than $1500 but easier when buying little by little.
> 
> IMO of course.


I guess to keep a long story short, I guess I am debating that a $600 Chinarello frame/fork or a $680 FM098 is a much better frame/fork than I'd get on any $1500 LBS bike. For the same price I get a bike at least 1kg lighter too.

The $1500 was more by way of an example. But to continue the example, my first Asian frame was a Pedal Force CG1. Think I paid $899 US all up for the frame/fork . At the time RITTE was selling the same frame (Painted and rebadged) for $2800 (now $2100). I was able to get good prices on gruppo, etc by shopping around (ribble, ebay, etc). I no longer have the exact figures but surely you can see how I was able to save a bundle of money this way vs buying the RITTE complete. Other than the paint job, I still ended up with the same bike for at minimun $1500 less. 

I do everything, including build my own wheels if need be. So have no need for a LBS unless i needed something that same day. I know for a lot of people, they would need to pay all the extra's like LBS build costs, etc, so it would eat away a lot of the profits and perhaps the risks wouldn't be worth it.


----------



## svard75

Bridgey said:


> I guess to keep a long story short, I guess I am debating that a $600 Chinarello frame/fork or a $680 FM098 is a much better frame/fork than I'd get on any $1500 LBS bike. For the same price I get a bike at least 1kg lighter too.
> 
> The $1500 was more by way of an example. But to continue the example, my first Asian frame was a Pedal Force CG1. Think I paid $899 US all up for the frame/fork . At the time RITTE was selling the same frame (Painted and rebadged) for $2800 (now $2100). I was able to get good prices on gruppo, etc by shopping around (ribble, ebay, etc). I no longer have the exact figures but surely you can see how I was able to save a bundle of money this way vs buying the RITTE complete. Other than the paint job, I still ended up with the same bike for at minimun $1500 less.
> 
> I do everything, including build my own wheels if need be. So have no need for a LBS unless i needed something that same day. I know for a lot of people, they would need to pay all the extra's like LBS build costs, etc, so it would eat away a lot of the profits and perhaps the risks wouldn't be worth it.


What about the other components? Did you already have them lying around or new purchase? I'm curious how guys here are building their bikes up for $1500 without steeling parts off the back of a truck! Even with a cheaper set of wheels you paid $900 for the frame/fork (Does that include the seatpost, handlebars, etc etc or just frame/fork?). I personally did this because I enjoy building bikes and although I am not a seasoned mechanic I figured things out along the way. The one thing I think I will miss is the warranty and the drop it off and forget about it service levels that you would get when buying from the LBS.

But hey to each his own because it's their own money not mine 

Sorry to derail this thread.

Mr.Habanero This has been covered a few hundred times in previous versions haha. What you do is completely remove the bolts and then using a screw driver put into the one side and wedge the round part right out. Do the same to the other side those things do rotate it's just cast and not very well. You can sand the surfaces down slightly to remove the roughness.


----------



## svard75

DudeMtn said:


> Svard, nice rig man!, So sweet. And NO, I guess I would not expect to get THAT bike for $1,500  however, I did build my modest ChinaVelo FMO15 for that and love it. I have ridden numerous higher end bikes at the LBS and ones owned by friends (Specialized, Willier, Look, Trek etc.) My china rig with Shimano 5700 black groupo and $250 Vuelta Pro wheels rides almost as well. I did say almost.


TY Sir. I believe that most road bikes will ride generally the same but what you're paying for with the higher end comps is quality up to a certain point then after that it's just weight reduction not so much the quality (At least that's what I believe). 

So you bought your Chinerello frame/fork but what about all the other parts did you buy them at the time you built it up and it cost you $1500 total all in? I'm wondering if we should actually list each part and how much it cost. It would be good to have as reference for potential buyers interested. I think many come here see really nice bikes and then read how some people have built up bikes for $1500 which would normally cost $3000 in the LBS then take the plunge but after the fact discover all the parts they really need which is not sold by the Chinese resellers. Lot's of little bits that add up. At least that's what I thought after the fact. Then to throw in the fact there's no real warranty just compounds the issue.

Just my opinion.


----------



## FTR

Mr.Habanero said:


> Hey guys. I am having an issue with my FM098 seat post seat clamp assembly. There is no tilt adjustment. I am assuming that the black medial part of the clamp is suppost to rotate to give me my angle. But its stuck at 90 deg. and l cant ride that. Im guessing that its stuck with resin somewhere. Crap, what am l suppost to do?


Man this question must have been asked and answered a dozen times or more.
Pull out the black parts.
Lightly sand if you must or simply lube with grease.
Re-install.


----------



## Mr.Habanero

Thanks FTR for your help. Its now been asked a dozen and one times.


----------



## ms6073

FTR said:


> Pull out the black parts.
> Lightly sand if you must or simply lube with grease.
> Re-install.


And as has also been suggested a number of times previously, add a medium tension spring of adequate length and proper diameterto fit over the bolt between the two black wedges in the same manner as Bontrager does with its seatpost clamp.


----------



## brewbiker

*fm-015 pinholes*

So I just got my new fm-015 frame (actually is mc015) from Miracle Trade. Dealt with Lisa who has been great. Easy to communicate with via skype and quick turnaround. The frame and fork look great. I opted for an all white paint job to which I will apply a custom decal kit. I have a question for those of you with this frame. I notice a few tiny holes on a few different spots on this frame. I know there is suppose to be a whole to route the FD cable through the bottom bracket. There are various other holes around the frame (smaller that FD cable hole). I don't think they are blemishes in the finish because they are in "consistant spots". There are two pinholes across from each other on the inside of the chain stays. Also two small ones symmetrically aligned on the bottom side of the seatstay near where the seat stays meet the chainstays. Also one on the bottom (middle) of the downtube. Any ideas? Are these to let moisture that may accumulate drain? Any insight would be appreciated. Not sure if I can post pictures yet.


----------



## Tswifty

brewbiker said:


> So I just got my new fm-015 frame (actually is mc015) from Miracle Trade. Dealt with Lisa who has been great. Easy to communicate with via skype and quick turnaround. The frame and fork look great. I opted for an all white paint job to which I will apply a custom decal kit. I have a question for those of you with this frame. I notice a few tiny holes on a few different spots on this frame. I know there is suppose to be a whole to route the FD cable through the bottom bracket. There are various other holes around the frame (smaller that FD cable hole). I don't think they are blemishes in the finish because they are in "consistant spots". There are two pinholes across from each other on the inside of the chain stays. Also two small ones symmetrically aligned on the bottom side of the seatstay near where the seat stays meet the chainstays. Also one on the bottom (middle) of the downtube. Any ideas? Are these to let moisture that may accumulate drain? Any insight would be appreciated. Not sure if I can post pictures yet.


You will have to post pictures before anyone can really make a informed guess or verdict.

But i just want to put this out there, but regarding the China frames vs Name brand. Why cant we agree to disagree that each have there pros and cons and stop comparing them as if ultimately one has to be better then the other?
Just my 2cents.


----------



## bernard29

*Sticker design*

So i have put the trigger on a FM012 TT Frame from ICAN. Very impatient to receive the package. I have planned to order decals to Marco ( Stickers Design ) .
Anyone here can tell me if it's possible to communicate with him in english ( Bad english, i know ) or portuguese as i have understand by reeding some post before..


----------



## kweenam

bernard29 said:


> So i have put the trigger on a FM012 TT Frame from ICAN. Very impatient to receive the package. I have planned to order decals to Marco ( Stickers Design ) .
> Anyone here can tell me if it's possible to communicate with him in english ( Bad english, i know ) or portuguese as i have understand by reeding some post before..


You can contact Marco with english as I just bought some sticker from him.


----------



## Team Murray

*Back in Black*

I have a similar project bike. 

Frame: Axman R22 (made in taiwan)
Size: 57cm top tube; 19cm head tube
Group: SRAM Red Black (BB30)
Wheels: Velocity with Tune hubs
Bars: Ritchey WCS Carbon Evolution Curve
Stem: Ritchey Pro Carbon 
Seatpost: Fizik Cyrano
Seat: Fizik Arione CX
Pedals: Look Keo2Max Carbon
Tires: Mavic K10
Weight: 14.5 pounds

I'm still thinking about the graphics. I was leaning toward using gloss black decals so the bike remains "stealthy".


----------



## tyfelmingham

bernard29 said:


> So i have put the trigger on a FM012 TT Frame from ICAN. Very impatient to receive the package. I have planned to order decals to Marco ( Stickers Design ) .
> Anyone here can tell me if it's possible to communicate with him in english ( Bad english, i know ) or portuguese as i have understand by reeding some post before..


Hey bernard, I have that frame (well Miracle Trades one). If you have any questions just ask. Also remember that there is some rear clearance issues with large tyres (21 tubs work great).

Ty


----------



## bernard29

@kweenam: Tks for reply. You have been happy of the result ?
@ Ty : Tks also. Just one question... are you satisfied with this frame ?


----------



## T0mi

I'm not sure it look "stealthy" with that postman riding position.


----------



## svard75

brewbiker said:


> So I just got my new fm-015 frame (actually is mc015) from Miracle Trade. Dealt with Lisa who has been great. Easy to communicate with via skype and quick turnaround. The frame and fork look great. I opted for an all white paint job to which I will apply a custom decal kit. I have a question for those of you with this frame. I notice a few tiny holes on a few different spots on this frame. I know there is suppose to be a whole to route the FD cable through the bottom bracket. There are various other holes around the frame (smaller that FD cable hole). I don't think they are blemishes in the finish because they are in "consistant spots". There are two pinholes across from each other on the inside of the chain stays. Also two small ones symmetrically aligned on the bottom side of the seatstay near where the seat stays meet the chainstays. Also one on the bottom (middle) of the downtube. Any ideas? *Are these to let moisture that may accumulate drain*? Any insight would be appreciated. Not sure if I can post pictures yet.


^Likely for that reason^ I have them on my FM015 as well.


----------



## gte534j

brewbiker said:


> So I just got my new fm-015 frame (actually is mc015) from Miracle Trade. Dealt with Lisa who has been great. Easy to communicate with via skype and quick turnaround. The frame and fork look great. I opted for an all white paint job to which I will apply a custom decal kit. I have a question for those of you with this frame. I notice a few tiny holes on a few different spots on this frame. I know there is suppose to be a whole to route the FD cable through the bottom bracket. There are various other holes around the frame (smaller that FD cable hole). I don't think they are blemishes in the finish because they are in "consistant spots". There are two pinholes across from each other on the inside of the chain stays. Also two small ones symmetrically aligned on the bottom side of the seatstay near where the seat stays meet the chainstays. Also one on the bottom (middle) of the downtube. Any ideas? Are these to let moisture that may accumulate drain? Any insight would be appreciated. Not sure if I can post pictures yet.


I got a TT frame from ebay/carbonzone and it had some small pinhole spots in the frame from where there was no paint. I think that this is just a location where they were holding the frames possibly for painting. I just got some white touch up paint and filled in those small holes. There were two on the inside of the forks and two on the inside of the rear chain stays i think. Just cosmetic IMO.


----------



## gte534j

svard75 said:


> Here's an updated photo. I've created so many online photo sharing sites I don't even remember which ones I use anymore. I tend to use Picasa most now.


nice bike! Where did you get the rim decals?


----------



## gte534j

Coolhand said:


> This myth needs to go away. Its simply not true. For $1500 you are getting $2000-$2200 worth of low end open mold 3rd tier brand maybe. Of course you are trading any warranty support, your time (or a shop' labor charge) and a bit of risk on the deal. And many buyers here clearly understand the trade-off. More experienced riders often know their fit well enough, and have the tools and skills to build up their own bike, or want to try it for the first time with a cheaper frame. And that's an understandable choice.
> 
> But your not getting the frame the open mold sellers are trying to imitate, especially if its a high end Taiwanese made model. Nor are you getting the QC, customer service, warranty and testing behind it. If you spent any time in.around the industry, you would know that the margin on high end bikes is terrible. In fact, if the LBS sold you a set of high end road shoes and helmet he probably made more on those than the bike, especially once you factor in shipping/labor/carrying costs.
> 
> So to be clear, not as good as $3k bike for $1500. The global economy doesn't work that way.
> 
> But, is it the best value an experienced rider/wrench (especially one with some parts lying around) can get for the money? You certainly could argue that. Is it a cheap way to make your own brand, with your own logos and head badge (yeah- and that's kind of cool). Are they bad frames? Probably not- especially if you read through these threads and are very careful who you deal with (research is your friend).


a highly appropriate article regarding this discussion:

The Torqued Wrench: The Myth of Origin


----------



## beston

Mr.Habanero said:


> Thanks FTR for your help. Its now been asked a dozen and one times.


I've answered this question a couple of times too. The Bontrager equivalent is truly a higher quality clamp and I highly recommend that you pay the $10 to buy that assembly.

My wife's Trek TT bike uses that clamp and it has never gotten stuck in the post, nor does it require anywhere near the attention of the copies that are being used in these open mould frames.


----------



## gte534j

beston said:


> I've answered this question a couple of times too. The Bontrager equivalent is truly a higher quality clamp and I highly recommend that you pay the $10 to buy that assembly.
> 
> My wife's Trek TT bike uses that clamp and it has never gotten stuck in the post, nor does it require anywhere near the attention of the copies that are being used in these open mould frames.


Bontrager: Seatpost Head Parts (Model #06096)


----------



## svard75

gte534j said:


> nice bike! Where did you get the rim decals?


That's funny because they are authentic. Stradalli is a small pop and son shop out of Florida which chose a Taiwanese rim manufacture and had then apply the decals and clear coat of their brand. The hubs are engraved with their logo as well. Check out Carbon Road Bicycles, Thriathlon Bikes, Carbon Handlebars - Stradalli for more details. They also have really nice handlebars for a bit more than the Chinese guys but they don't have the ergo lump in the drops.


----------



## Teo

I’m currently building a Chinarello. Have all the parts but waiting on the frame to arrive. Originally wanted to build it with Force group for around $1800, but splurged on some RED components. If I had gone with a Rival or 105 group and less expensive wheels, I’m confident I could have gotten it down to $1,500. 

Here is my build.


Frame, Fork, Headset, Seatpost, and clamp. Bought from GK. Price also included shipping, paypal fees, painting and rebadging.
$620

Red Shifter, Red Black Cranks, Red Black Brakes, Force Rear Der, Force Front Der, 1070 Cassette, 1050 Chain, Team Bottom Bracket. Bought all this from Ribble. No shipping charge.
$1,135

Campagnalo Vento Wheels, Schwalbe Ultremo Tires, Deda Zero1 Stem, Deda RMH01 Handle Bars, Sellel Italia XC Saddle, Fizik Glossy Bar Tape. Bought from Wiggle. No shipping Charge
$390

Giant tubes from LBS
$12

Carbon headset spacers from Ebay
$7.5

Putting bike together myself
0$

Total Cost $2,164.5

Will post pics when build is complete.


----------



## svard75

Teo said:


> I’m currently building a Chinarello. Have all the parts but waiting on the frame to arrive. Originally wanted to build it with Force group for around $1800, but splurged on some RED components. If I had gone with a Rival or 105 group and less expensive wheels, I’m confident I could have gotten it down to $1,500.
> 
> Here is my build.
> 
> 
> Frame, Fork, Headset, Seatpost, and clamp. Bought from GK. Price also included shipping, paypal fees, painting and rebadging.
> $620
> 
> Red Shifter, Red Black Cranks, Red Black Brakes, Force Rear Der, Force Front Der, 1070 Cassette, 1050 Chain, Team Bottom Bracket. Bought all this from Ribble. No shipping charge.
> $1,135
> 
> Campagnalo Vento Wheels, Schwalbe Ultremo Tires, Deda Zero1 Stem, Deda RMH01 Handle Bars, Sellel Italia XC Saddle, Fizik Glossy Bar Tape. Bought from Wiggle. No shipping Charge
> $390
> 
> Giant tubes from LBS
> $12
> 
> Carbon headset spacers from Ebay
> $7.5
> 
> Putting bike together myself
> 0$
> 
> Total Cost $2,164.5
> 
> Will post pics when build is complete.


Very respectable cost for that build. I would have budgeted more on the wheels than the drivetrain.


----------



## Team Murray

Tomi, 
There's 8cm of drop between the seat and the bars. Are you implying that your postman is quite flexible? I'm not sure what was the point of your comment.


----------



## Teo

svard75 said:


> Very respectable cost for that build. I would have budgeted more on the wheels than the drivetrain.


Funny thing is that it's alway been hard for me to justify buying an expensive set of wheels. I alway prefer to spend the money on components. But having said that I will be looking for some carbon wheels in the near future.


----------



## steelythecyco

Hi All

I have an FM028 ISP frame which has had the seat mast cut too short for me. I want to cut it down further then use a normal 31.8 mm seat post and clamp set up so that I can get the seat height right.

Has anybody done this? would it work?

I have tried a 31.8 mm post in there and with a small spacer it sound fit well. the problem i see is getting enough clamping form on the mast to hold the post with out damaging the mast.

any thoughts.

Thanks
Dave


----------



## svard75

Teo said:


> Funny thing is that it's alway been hard for me to justify buying an expensive set of wheels. I alway prefer to spend the money on components. But having said that I will be looking for some carbon wheels in the near future.


They dont have to be carbon. Its my opinion that drivetrains are not much better past force or ultegra. After that its just weight.


----------



## plh1964

gte534j said:


> nice bike! Where did you get the rim decals?


His wheels are Stradalli


----------



## svard75

steelythecyco said:


> Hi All
> 
> I have an FM028 ISP frame which has had the seat mast cut too short for me. I want to cut it down further then use a normal 31.8 mm seat post and clamp set up so that I can get the seat height right.
> 
> Has anybody done this? would it work?
> 
> I have tried a 31.8 mm post in there and with a small spacer it sound fit well. the problem i see is getting enough clamping form on the mast to hold the post with out damaging the mast.
> 
> any thoughts.
> 
> Thanks
> Dave


I did something similar but before I cut it right down I managed to find the ratio tacto isp mast topper which gave me 30mm more and that was just perfect. Its adjustable from 0 to 30mm in 2mm increments. The other option is to cut the isp mast down to 4mm above the top tube. Cut a 1mm wide slit into the back of the mast about 4.5mm down and drill a 2mm hole at that spot to allow for slight contraction. Find a seatpost clamp that'll fit. I believe its a 32mm (someone correct me if I'm wrong here). Then grind the outer clear coat and a very small amount of the resin about 4mm down all the way around the top of the mast. 
install the seatpost and see if it goes all the way in. You may have to grind some of the resin from the inside. Whenever doing this be careful and grind away just small amounts at a time. You may not need a spacer but it would be a good idea to have one anyway. This was what I would have done to mine if I didn't find the ratio tacto. Keep in mind this is just theoretical and there's a risk you can screw it up. There's also a risk of the frame cracking here since the modifications call for some resin removal. 

Bottom line is sorry it happened. You're now pretty screwed if you don't do it and could be if you do.


----------



## tyfelmingham

bernard29 said:


> @kweenam: Tks for reply. You have been happy of the result ?
> @ Ty : Tks also. Just one question... are you satisfied with this frame ?


For its price its unbeatable. Very aero and looks cool to boot and I love riding it. One other concern is if you run compact cranks with the braze on position as my compact 52t ultra just fit (1-2mm a close shave).


----------



## tyfelmingham

tyfelmingham said:


> For its price its unbeatable. Very aero and looks cool to boot and I love riding it. One other concern is if you run compact cranks with the braze on position as my compact 52t ultra just fit (1-2mm a close shave).


ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting


----------



## mrcreosote

steelythecyco said:


> Hi All
> 
> I have an FM028 ISP frame which has had the seat mast cut too short for me. I want to cut it down further then use a normal 31.8 mm seat post and clamp set up so that I can get the seat height right.
> 
> Has anybody done this? would it work?
> 
> I have tried a 31.8 mm post in there and with a small spacer it sound fit well. the problem i see is getting enough clamping form on the mast to hold the post with out damaging the mast.
> 
> any thoughts.
> 
> Thanks
> Dave


get one of these

eXotic Carbon Integrated Seat Mast Clamp 3xAdjustable | eBay

It is exactly the same as the Ratio Tacto ISP Seat mast, but half the price


----------



## steelythecyco

Thanks for the info.


----------



## sund

Ignore - For some reason the 5.0 thread wasn't showing in Firefox and I switched browsers and I'm good again.


----------



## Bridgey

Teo said:


> I’m currently building a Chinarello. Have all the parts but waiting on the frame to arrive. Originally wanted to build it with Force group for around $1800, but splurged on some RED components. If I had gone with a Rival or 105 group and less expensive wheels, I’m confident I could have gotten it down to $1,500.
> 
> Here is my build.
> 
> 
> Frame, Fork, Headset, Seatpost, and clamp. Bought from GK. Price also included shipping, paypal fees, painting and rebadging.
> $620
> 
> Red Shifter, Red Black Cranks, Red Black Brakes, Force Rear Der, Force Front Der, 1070 Cassette, 1050 Chain, Team Bottom Bracket. Bought all this from Ribble. No shipping charge.
> $1,135
> 
> Campagnalo Vento Wheels, Schwalbe Ultremo Tires, Deda Zero1 Stem, Deda RMH01 Handle Bars, Sellel Italia XC Saddle, Fizik Glossy Bar Tape. Bought from Wiggle. No shipping Charge
> $390
> 
> Giant tubes from LBS
> $12
> 
> Carbon headset spacers from Ebay
> $7.5
> 
> Putting bike together myself
> 0$
> 
> Total Cost $2,164.5
> 
> Will post pics when build is complete.


Nice build and price. You will have a much better and lighter bike than anything you could buy at a LBS for that price or even $3000.


----------



## rlafleur

rlafleur said:


> For all you Chinarello fans. This came in to my local LBS. It was the guy's first ride on an eBay Chinarello. Enough said...


Backstory: Dad buys 14 year old son Chinarello frame. Looks beautiful out of the box. Dad builds bike. First ride - Son riding along at 20 - 25mph (No curbs in sight.) and sees 
fork separate sideways. Crashes. A few scrapes and bruises. Dad takes Son to LBS and buys new bike. I guess, you get what you pay for...


----------



## redmr2_man

rlafleur said:


> Backstory: Dad buys 14 year old son Chinarello frame. Looks beautiful out of the box. Dad builds bike. First ride - Son riding along at 20 - 25mph (No curbs in sight.) and sees
> fork separate sideways. Crashes. A few scrapes and bruises. Dad takes Son to LBS and buys new bike. I guess, you get what you pay for...


I guess I just don't believe you?

Forks just don't break like that. Probably drove it into garage and then made up the story.


----------



## MTBAlex

rlafleur said:


> Backstory: Dad buys 14 year old son Chinarello frame. Looks beautiful out of the box. Dad builds bike. First ride - Son riding along at 20 - 25mph (No curbs in sight.) and sees
> fork separate sideways. Crashes. A few scrapes and bruises. Dad takes Son to LBS and buys new bike. I guess, you get what you pay for...


The broken part of the steer tube looks like the bike ran into something and broke as a result of the force. How can it break like that if there was no crash? Serious question cause I am concerned if the quality is that bad.


----------



## mrcreosote

rlafleur said:


> Backstory: Dad buys 14 year old son Chinarello frame. Looks beautiful out of the box. Dad builds bike. First ride - Son riding along at 20 - 25mph (No curbs in sight.) and sees
> fork separate sideways. Crashes. A few scrapes and bruises. Dad takes Son to LBS and buys new bike. I guess, you get what you pay for...


Commonly known in the trade as a 'JRA'

"I was just riding along...."


----------



## redmr2_man

mrcreosote said:


> Commonly known in the trade as a 'JRA'
> 
> "I was just riding along...."


I was JRA when this hacksaw came out of nowhere and took off the headtube of my trek:










I would never buy a trek again.


----------



## MTBAlex

redmr2_man said:


> I was JRA when this hacksaw came out of nowhere and took off the headtube of my trek:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would never buy a trek again.


I don't believe you. I think it was the hammer and not the saw.


----------



## Tswifty

rlafleur said:


> Backstory: Dad buys 14 year old son Chinarello frame. Looks beautiful out of the box. Dad builds bike. First ride - Son riding along at 20 - 25mph (No curbs in sight.) and sees
> fork separate sideways. Crashes. A few scrapes and bruises. Dad takes Son to LBS and buys new bike. I guess, you get what you pay for...


So the dad built the bike? Maybe the dad installed something wrong?

But to add I was just riding along then suddenly my fork split in too. 

ht tp:// imageshack.us/photo/my-images/357/vorkbreuk3cz.jpg/sr=1


----------



## DANJOANES

Teo said:


> I’m currently building a Chinarello. Have all the parts but waiting on the frame to arrive. Originally wanted to build it with Force group for around $1800, but splurged on some RED components. If I had gone with a Rival or 105 group and less expensive wheels, I’m confident I could have gotten it down to $1,500.
> 
> Here is my build.
> 
> 
> Frame, Fork, Headset, Seatpost, and clamp. Bought from GK. Price also included shipping, paypal fees, painting and rebadging.
> $620
> 
> Red Shifter, Red Black Cranks, Red Black Brakes, Force Rear Der, Force Front Der, 1070 Cassette, 1050 Chain, Team Bottom Bracket. Bought all this from Ribble. No shipping charge.
> $1,135
> 
> Campagnalo Vento Wheels, Schwalbe Ultremo Tires, Deda Zero1 Stem, Deda RMH01 Handle Bars, Sellel Italia XC Saddle, Fizik Glossy Bar Tape. Bought from Wiggle. No shipping Charge
> $390
> 
> Giant tubes from LBS
> $12
> 
> Carbon headset spacers from Ebay
> $7.5
> 
> Putting bike together myself
> 0$
> 
> Total Cost $2,164.5
> 
> Will post pics when build is complete.


First post so sorry if I am wrong. If you have a Sram group will this work with your Campag wheels?


----------



## T0mi

Team Murray said:


> Tomi,
> There's 8cm of drop between the seat and the bars. Are you implying that your postman is quite flexible? I'm not sure what was the point of your comment.


You don't need to be flexible to have a 8cm drop.


----------



## Klitgaard

Planning to go for af FM098 but have some conserns with the size. 
My inseam is 89cm, height is 186 so what to go for?
My current bike is a 60cm without slope, toptupe 59cm, and I feel that the top tupe is a little short.
Is it a 61cm I should go for?


----------



## svard75

DANJOANES said:


> First post so sorry if I am wrong. If you have a Sram group will this work with your Campag wheels?


Funny I thought they would have an M10 version of the hub body but I can't seem to find it. That's a good questions.


----------



## FTR

Klitgaard said:


> Planning to go for af FM098 but have some conserns with the size.
> My inseam is 89cm, height is 186 so what to go for?
> My current bike is a 60cm without slope, toptupe 59cm, and I feel that the top tupe is a little short.
> Is it a 61cm I should go for?


That is a freaky long inseam for your height if it is right.
I am 187.5 with a 35.5" inseam.
I ride a 58cm ETT.


----------



## jonoir

jonoir said:


> Ok then guys,
> 
> I have pushed the button on my fm039 today in Matte 3k non isp from Hongfu
> 
> I'll keep you posted on delivery speed and build process.
> 
> I'm happy to answer any questions about the parts of the process I have experience so far


OK so the above is finally being shipped - a weeks delay due to them not putting the right Matte couting on the frame (never really got to the bottom of that on) All being tracked on EMS so will let you know when it arrives. Hopefully fast than the 12 working days Jenny quoted


----------



## Seneb

Quick update on my build... Flyxii is sending me the forgotten seatpost and didn't give any grief about it. Cool. Yesterday my eXotic carbon derailleur clamp arrived and fits just fine with a Campy Record FD and CRT Designs chain catcher. It says 3nm max, but I didn't even get to two nm before being uncomfortable with more force. BTW, check out the CRT Designs chain catcher if you're thinking of getting one from another company. They are less expensive, well built, and the proceeds help fund their local cycling team. slickjolly on eBay


----------



## zigmeister

beston said:


> I've answered this question a couple of times too. The Bontrager equivalent is truly a higher quality clamp and I highly recommend that you pay the $10 to buy that assembly.
> 
> My wife's Trek TT bike uses that clamp and it has never gotten stuck in the post, nor does it require anywhere near the attention of the copies that are being used in these open mould frames.





gte534j said:


> Bontrager: Seatpost Head Parts (Model #06096)


Good information to have and looks like the similar seat post rail clamp design on the MC053 also.

I also wonder, once you get your seat set, how often are you adjusting it and this is a problem with it getting "stuck". Just a screw driver pops the piece out, and I mark the post/round piece with pencil to show the current position before moving and realigning it.

After that, I want it to be "stuck" and so it won't move.

Looks like this Bontrager piece just pushes the pieces outward when the clamp bolt is loosened to hopefully get it to unlodge itself?

Also, does this Bontrager piece align both sides evenly? This is probably the best use of this design if it aligns both sides evenly. Because the other side is a guessing game I use and as I said, pencil markings to get it level and turned correctly on each side. That way, one rail won't be slightly twisted in one direction from the other rail putting unnecessary strain on one/both rails, or torquing the seat in some funky angle.

For $10, if it fits, seems like you can't go wrong with this setup if the above is true.

Thanks!


----------



## gregnash

9-18 Fast said:


> *snip*
> 
> For Sale: Custom 50cm Deng Fu Road Bike
> 
> Deng Fu - MF028 carbon imported frame and fork (SIZE 50cm)
> Deng Fu - Carbon imported 38mm wheels
> Deng Fu – Carbon imported Road bar (SIZE 44)
> Shifters – Sram Red Black
> Cranks – Sram Red Black (SIZE 172.5)
> R. D. – Sram Red Black
> F.D. – Sram Rivel
> Cassette – Sram Force
> Chain – KCNC
> Brakes – TRP w/ carbon brake pads
> Post – Black Ops
> Stem – 3T
> Bar Tape – Sram
> Seat – Fizik Arione


Ok is that the standard fork the comes with the FM0028? I dont see canti mounts on it on their website.. only the Cyclocross has canti mounts that I can see.


----------



## timsen

jonoir said:


> OK so the above is finally being shipped - a weeks delay due to them not putting the right Matte couting on the frame (never really got to the bottom of that on) All being tracked on EMS so will let you know when it arrives. Hopefully fast than the 12 working days Jenny quoted




Please USE carbon pasta for your seatpost !! Otherwise your seat post slips down all the time.


----------



## Teo

DANJOANES said:


> First post so sorry if I am wrong. If you have a Sram group will this work with your Campag wheels?



Campagnalo does wheels with either Campi or Shimano/SRAM freehub, just like any other manufacturer. Installed my cassette and it’s worked fine.


----------



## Camilo

T0mi said:


> You don't need to be flexible to have a 8cm drop.


I don't understand your point. Is there a certain handlebar drop that one should achieve? And what would be the reason for that?


----------



## T0mi

because otherwise you suck !

Just kidding. The previous poster was talking about the stealth look. To me there is no point to achieve that if your bike doesn't have the aggressive look of a racebike. And to me it is directly related to the setup of a race bike.


----------



## Bridgey

Camilo said:


> I don't understand your point. Is there a certain handlebar drop that one should achieve? And what would be the reason for that?


It all depends on your flexibility, core strength and probably most importantly arm length. My drop is quite small (I was professionally fitted) due to short arm length. 

The fitter made a good point that if you want to get aero, get into the drops, bend your arms, etc. However for the rest of the time while doing those long base miles, or in the middle of the pack, etc make sure you are comfortable. This also saves plenty of energy (mental and physical). 

If you are worried that your handlebar height is too high to be aero, get handlebars with a bigger drop, so when you do go aero, you are down where you want to be. Makes sense to me.


----------



## ALIHISGREAT

Bridgey said:


> It all depends on your flexibility, core strength and probably most importantly arm length. My drop is quite small (I was professionally fitted) due to short arm length.
> 
> The fitter made a good point that if you want to get aero, get into the drops, bend your arms, etc. However for the rest of the time while doing those long base miles, or in the middle of the pack, etc make sure you are comfortable. This also saves plenty of energy (mental and physical).
> 
> If you are worried that your handlebar height is too high to be aero, get handlebars with a bigger drop, so when you do go aero, you are down where you want to be. Makes sense to me.


+1

everyone wants to look pro with their bum in the aim, and chin scraping the front wheel.. but these are super flexible and strong pro athletes.

Any respectable bike fitter will put you in a comfortable position as they know that this is where you will perform best.


----------



## mrcreosote

DANJOANES said:


> First post so sorry if I am wrong. If you have a Sram group will this work with your Campag wheels?


yes

Campagnolo Vento Reaction Shimano Wheelset | Evans Cycles


----------



## Mr.Habanero

gte534j said:


> Bontrager: Seatpost Head Parts (Model #06096)


Thank you really. I didnt necessarily mean to come off snooty but there are thousands of posts on all six threads and finding something isnt all that easy, I think anyway. Yeah, lm going to check out that part right away!


----------



## mrcreosote

FTR said:


> That is a freaky long inseam for your height if it is right.
> I am 187.5 with a 35.5" inseam.
> I ride a 58cm ETT.


Ummmm.... you do realize that 35.5 inches = 90cm....

so 89cm inseam for his 186 height is about right (I am 88/183 and ride a 57/57cm TT/ST)

and for the O/P you could try Pedal Force Online bike fit. Although, it tells me I should be riding a frame with 4cm shorter T/T than I the one I have, and on which I feel perfectly comfortable (admittedly with compact bars)

Plus, rather than getting a longer TT, you could just get a longer stem


----------



## otherself

This is my FLX-FR-R02 road bike frame. I've had it for a few months now and I'm very pleased with it. Had a slight problem with the headset coming loose but it seems to be sorted now. I got the frame from the ebay seller carbon-bicycle. Shipping was very quick to England.


----------



## bernard29

@tyfelmingham
Superb build ! I hope to be succesful in putting up a nice bike also ;-)
I did not understand the issue with the crank and fd. I have a (54 x 39 ) rotor crankset. You think it will be ok ?


----------



## bmcv11

@ Seneb. Good news about the seatpost. I didn't think they would want to spoil their reputation on this forum over something like that.

My news is that my package left Hongkong on the 28th and arrived at Heathrow on the 29th. so fingers crossed for maybe next Tuesday.


----------



## FTR

mrcreosote said:


> Ummmm.... you do realize that 35.5 inches = 90cm....
> 
> so 89cm inseam for his 186 height is about right (I am 88/183 and ride a 57/57cm TT/ST)
> 
> and for the O/P you could try Pedal Force Online bike fit. Although, it tells me I should be riding a frame with 4cm shorter T/T than I the one I have, and on which I feel perfectly comfortable (admittedly with compact bars)
> 
> Plus, rather than getting a longer TT, you could just get a longer stem


Oops, my mistake.
Don't type tired.
But I would wonder whether he needs a 61cm.
As you said, perhaps a longer stem.


----------



## garydee77

hi guys - wondering does anyone know can you get generic aero risers for the chinese TT bars? - see the pic below to see shape - want to rise it up another bit maybe another 20-30mm - but wondering where I could get extra ones of these?


----------



## DANJOANES

bmcv11 said:


> @ Seneb. Good news about the seatpost. I didn't think they would want to spoil their reputation on this forum over something like that.
> 
> My news is that my package left Hongkong on the 28th and arrived at Heathrow on the 29th. so fingers crossed for maybe next Tuesday.


Good luck with that, my wheels arrived in the UK Monday 26th, cleared customs 29th but are still waiting on the duty to be calculated.
The sender put $50.00 on the box but we shall see.


----------



## EvenOlder

*Miracle Trade MT-MC055 Frame Availability*

Just thought I'd post my recent communication on 3/29/2012 with Lisa Zhu from Miracle Trade.
"Dear Steve
nice day . here is lisa . thank you for contacting me .
first enclosed our catalogue with price and MT-MC055 geometry to you . please check .
now have stock in 54cm 3k gloss finish . 56cm need waiting end of next month 
Best Regards
lisa"

She sent me their .pdf 2012 catalog, which lists two versions of the frame: Di2 and Normal.
For one frame, $650 Di2, $600 Normal (BB30/BSA)

I tried to include the PDF's, but they're too large for the forum.

Cheers,
steve


----------



## bmcv11

DANJOANES said:


> Good luck with that, my wheels arrived in the UK Monday 26th, cleared customs 29th but are still waiting on the duty to be calculated.
> The sender put $50.00 on the box but we shall see.


Oh dear.....didn't realise it took so long to clear customs....I need to curb my impatience !:blush2:


----------



## Quevedosh

@garydee77 dengfubikes.com/ ask them


----------



## Seneb

@bmcv11 - Hope it clears soon! I'm close to having mine on the road, hopefully tomorrow but rain is in the forecast.


----------



## timsen

Hi guys,

Today I put an wooden tubular front wheel in my bike. 
It absolutely looks fantastic.

Will post a picture soon with both wooden wheels in the bike.
(the wheels are for sale)


----------



## Seneb

Those wheels should go on the Ibis that a guy posted recently that has a brown leather saddle and brown bar tape.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bikes-frames-forks/new-ibis-silk-sl-2012-a-276028.html


----------



## beij

Anyone ordered the new fm066 yet? Pretty sure I will buy one but Love to get a review before I do.


----------



## nickl75

timsen said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Today I put an wooden tubular front wheel in my bike.
> It absolutely looks fantastic.


Being able to see the raw carbon fiber takes on a whole new meaning!


----------



## sandman77

Does anybody know if there is a problem at greatkeenbikes? I have an order with them and haven't had a tracking number yet and their website is down. Getting a little concerned.


----------



## hyperlitnerd

beij said:


> Anyone ordered the new fm066 yet? Pretty sure I will buy one but Love to get a review before I do.


I am looking to get one as well. Talked to "jane" the other night, she said a month till the 56 is available and 3 months will the 58 (my size) is ready. I will be looking forward to reviews of those getting 56s though! 

I did an excel calculation of what a build up would weigh in as. With the upper range of the lightweight frame, sram force group, mavic aksiums, 250 gram tires, 50 gram tubes, 170 gram stem, 233 gram handlebar, 305 gram seatpost, 225 gram saddle and 260 gram pedals, i get a bike weight of 14.3 lbs. I am very excited to see how this bike turns out!


----------



## redmr2_man

hyperlitnerd said:


> I am looking to get one as well. Talked to "jane" the other night, she said a month till the 56 is available and 3 months will the 58 (my size) is ready. I will be looking forward to reviews of those getting 56s though!
> 
> I did an excel calculation of what a build up would weigh in as. With the upper range of the lightweight frame, sram force group, mavic aksiums, 250 gram tires, 50 gram tubes, 170 gram stem, 233 gram handlebar, 305 gram seatpost, 225 gram saddle and 260 gram pedals, i get a bike weight of 14.3 lbs. I am very excited to see how this bike turns out!


that sounds pretty low, but that would be a nice weight! aksiums are coming in at 1800-2000g depending on the year, and wow those tires are heavy!

I've got campy bits and am waiting for reviews of the 66 as well. I calc'd it out to ~17lbs ready to ride.


----------



## hyperlitnerd

redmr2_man said:


> that sounds pretty low, but that would be a nice weight! aksiums are coming in at 1800-2000g depending on the year, and wow those tires are heavy!
> 
> I've got campy bits and am waiting for reviews of the 66 as well. I calc'd it out to ~17lbs ready to ride.


Yeah it seemed low to me too... I would think 16 would be very doable on that frame.


----------



## rocosista

This is my dengfu fm-098. I build this bike for the next summer triathlons.


----------



## Teo

sandman77 said:


> Does anybody know if there is a problem at greatkeenbikes? I have an order with them and haven't had a tracking number yet and their website is down. Getting a little concerned.


After reading your post I sent them an email requesting an update on a frame I ordered. They got back to me in a few hours. Frame is still being built. I wouldn't worry.


----------



## jordo_99

hyperlitnerd said:


> I am looking to get one as well. Talked to "jane" the other night, she said a month till the 56 is available and 3 months will the 58 (my size) is ready. I will be looking forward to reviews of those getting 56s though!
> 
> I did an excel calculation of what a build up would weigh in as. With the upper range of the lightweight frame, sram force group, mavic aksiums, 250 gram tires, 50 gram tubes, 170 gram stem, 233 gram handlebar, 305 gram seatpost, 225 gram saddle and 260 gram pedals, i get a bike weight of 14.3 lbs. I am very excited to see how this bike turns out!


I just did the same thing a few days ago...albeit with a few Force parts swapped out for lighter stuff (but BSA so crank/BB will level out) and got down to 15lbs even. This is with my R28SL Neuvation wheels at 1500g (which is less than your wheels weight) so I'm thinking you might want to look at that again. Additionally, my frame is a FM098 which weighs the same or more.

I'll be posting back actual weight once I get the bike built if anybody cares.


----------



## sandman77

Teo said:


> After reading your post I sent them an email requesting an update on a frame I ordered. They got back to me in a few hours. Frame is still being built. I wouldn't worry.



Thanks, appreciate that.


----------



## fab4

rocosista said:


> This is my dengfu fm-098. I build this bike for the next summer triathlons.


Very nice.


----------



## fab4

hyperlitnerd said:


> I am looking to get one as well. Talked to "jane" the other night, she said a month till the 56 is available and 3 months will the 58 (my size) is ready. I will be looking forward to reviews of those getting 56s though!
> 
> I did an excel calculation of what a build up would weigh in as. With the upper range of the lightweight frame, sram force group, mavic aksiums, 250 gram tires, 50 gram tubes, 170 gram stem, 233 gram handlebar, 305 gram seatpost, 225 gram saddle and 260 gram pedals, i get a bike weight of 14.3 lbs. I am very excited to see how this bike turns out!


How much is the frameset going for?


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

zigmeister said:


> ...
> I ended up getting a few headsets, I finally tested and settled on a Ritchey Pro Logic drop-in tapered for about $32 delivered off eBay.
> 
> Ritchey Logic - Road - Headsets - Threadless Drop-In - Pro Logic Zero Tapered 1-1/8" - 1.5"
> 
> Upon arrival, the top/bottom bearings fit well. Both bearings have just a touch of play once inserting them in the frame. After greasing them up and assembling, then snugging up the compression fitting to tighten it, it moves freely with no play at all back/forth in the forks, yet swings freely on the bearings. Race crown fits well with some force as expected. Overall, a quality product at the right price and fits well. In the end, I'm glad I didn't get the cheapo Neco headset H373 model. It delayed the build by about 1 week waiting for the part, but now I have a matching stem, and can get handlebars if desired for a complete matching quality cockpit if I want.
> ...



Cheers for that ZIG ... much appreciated ... excellant write up ...:thumbsup:




sandman77 said:


> Does anybody know if there is a problem at greatkeenbikes? I have an order with them and haven't had a tracking number yet and their website is down. Getting a little concerned.





Teo said:


> After reading your post I sent them an email requesting an update on a frame I ordered. They got back to me in a few hours. Frame is still being built. I wouldn't worry.


I noticed these Chinese websites do go down for some periods of time ... but they do get up and running later ... but if I had an order down, perfectly understandable if I'd see it down even for a second ...


----------



## heystevephan

I was just wondering I have a pretty shitty road bike with sora components. Would it be possible for me to just buy a frame and switch everything over.

What kind of problems would I run into? 

And other than the frame itself what else do i need so that I could just switch everything over

Also, would it be a bad idea? I am slowly going to upgrade each component but I wanted to ride it in the mean time.


----------



## sandman77

heystevephan said:


> I was just wondering I have a pretty shitty road bike with sora components. Would it be possible for me to just buy a frame and switch everything over.
> 
> What kind of problems would I run into?
> 
> And other than the frame itself what else do i need so that I could just switch everything over
> 
> Also, would it be a bad idea? I am slowly going to upgrade each component but I wanted to ride it in the mean time.


As long as the seat tube is the same size and bb is the same you should be fine. You will probably need new gear and brake cables.


----------



## cybernck

I'm thinking of going for a "Chinarello" from Great Keen, not only because they are affordable, but because I simply cannot get any other frameset locally nor get it shipped from the UK or the US (too big).

Anyhow, I'm wondering if anyone has sent them money by IBAN? I guess that offers less protection than PayPal, but saves a bit on the fees? And when you send by PayPal, do you pay the specified amount AND cover the transfer fees? Or are the fees they state the actual transfer fees?


Also, has anyone on here purchased "MOST" carbon integrated handlebars?

most full fibre carbon integrated handlebar products, buy most full fibre carbon integrated handlebar products from alibaba.com

And what about similar (and matching) "MOST" carbon fiber saddle?


Thanks!


----------



## Teo

cybernck said:


> I'm thinking of going for a "Chinarello" from Great Keen, not only because they are affordable, but because I simply cannot get any other frameset locally nor get it shipped from the UK or the US (too big).
> 
> Anyhow, I'm wondering if anyone has sent them money by IBAN? I guess that offers less protection than PayPal, but saves a bit on the fees? And when you send by PayPal, do you pay the specified amount AND cover the transfer fees? Or are the fees they state the actual transfer fees?
> 
> 
> Also, has anyone on here purchased "MOST" carbon integrated handlebars?
> 
> most full fibre carbon integrated handlebar products, buy most full fibre carbon integrated handlebar products from alibaba.com
> 
> And what about similar (and matching) "MOST" carbon fiber saddle?
> 
> 
> Thanks!


Just purchased from Greatkeen. They charged me $620 for frame and parts, paypal fees and shipping. I sent then exactly $620. Paypal did not charge me anything else. Technically the seller pays the paypal fees, but many seller pass on that charge onto the buyer as in increase in price to the purchased item.


----------



## hyperlitnerd

fab4 said:


> How much is the frameset going for?


I think it was around 700 shipped, but don't quote me on that.


----------



## persondude27

Hey ya'll,

Welcome back from your forum vacations! Hopefully everyone watched the Nazi movie.

Looks like Wonderful Pistachios are racing on FM015s.



















They're branded as "Broken Bones" bicycles. Looks to be a 12K matte FM015 with Microshift and Edge Design wheels.

Looks like both of those guys may snap the frame in half during a sprint...


----------



## mrcreosote

my fm058 (actually yishun cx01) arrived yesterday - shipped on the 23rd.

box was a bit bashed, but all good inside

56cm frame, gloss 3k finish
only waiting on delivery of BB cups which should arrive soon

pics to follow


----------



## bernard29

One week after order, i received my FM 012 TT frame at home from ICAN. Communication with Anna was perfect. Very nice frame. It's seem to be well build. Same thing for the Tt handle-bars[IMG . Very excited to see the final result. ( Not before june, i think... ) 
I 'll send pics after 10 posts...


----------



## DANJOANES

bmcv11 said:


> Oh dear.....didn't realise it took so long to clear customs....I need to curb my impatience !:blush2:


My wheels cleared UK customs on the 2nd (7 days to clear customs) got to pay the customs duty and handling charge (only £17.50 due to flyxii marking the box $50.00)
should get them later today/tomorrow.
Hope your items clear customs quicker.


----------



## bmcv11

DANJOANES said:


> My wheels cleared UK customs on the 2nd (7 days to clear customs) got to pay the customs duty and handling charge (only £17.50 due to flyxii marking the box $50.00)
> should get them later today/tomorrow.
> Hope your items clear customs quicker.


My package did arrive yesterday as I had hoped. I was lucky....no mention of customs
in the tracking. International hub 02/04 to National hub same day....then Manchester hub 00:46 03/04........loaded to vehicle @ 1:20........arrived here @ 11.35.

Box was completly unmarked......looked like it had just been packed for dispatch.
Hope you have received your wheels by now.


----------



## steviemidnight

My FM015 arrived the other day sent on the 23rd, received in uk 27th, 3 days in customs then delivered on the 2nd 

3k matte carbon looks great but i'm concerned as it looks like it will mark easily and it also doesn't appear to be coated! unlike the gloss 3k handlebars etc.

Any one had any problems with 3k matte carbon easily scratching/chipping - I plan to use helicopter tape on the down tube and chainstays


----------



## bevo21

After more than a year and 6000 happy km on my FM028 I have now a (small) problem. The rear hanger broke last Sunday, and I had to replace it with the share one I got form Dengfu when I bought the frame and some other parts. I like to have again a spare one or two, so I have mailed to Mina ([email protected]) who was my contact then. But there are some problems over there, isn't it, as I read in this topic and nr,5? I also remember someone knew a company who had many rear hangers, but I can't find it anymore. Any one suggestions, thanks in advance.


----------



## bmcv11

@Seneb Quick question regarding your headset bearings. Were they a push fit or did they need pressing in ?


----------



## Seneb

bmcv11 said:


> @Seneb Quick question regarding your headset bearings. Were they a push fit or did they need pressing in ?


They simply pushed in. There was the tiniest amount of play (seriously tiny) that went away when everything was snugged up. The only concern I have is that the headset race doesn't fully sit on the top of the fork crown. It is hovering by about 1mm. I'm thinking of pulling it, checking the fork, and shaving it a bit if necessary. Anyone have an opinion on this??


----------



## maxxevv

Seneb said:


> They simply pushed in. There was the tiniest amount of play (seriously tiny) that went away when everything was snugged up. The only concern I have is that the headset race doesn't fully sit on the top of the fork crown. It is hovering by about 1mm. I'm thinking of pulling it, checking the fork, and shaving it a bit if necessary. Anyone have an opinion on this??


Not a good idea. Would suggest using the good old PVC pipe ramming method discussed previously in the threads to get the race sitting snug instead.


----------



## Seneb

I had my first ride on the Flyxii FR-303 last night after work. I was only able to get in 16 miles on it, but this route has some short kicker hills and open flats, so it has some nice variation. I didn't go too hard since it was the initial ride, but pushed a bit on the hills. The frame is impressive. Picking it up it feels a bit heavier than it should, which is most likely from my anchor of a cassette (Centaur), but on the road it feels very light and agile. It tracks straight and smooth, even without hands, and doesn't noticeably flex with out of the saddle climbing. Interesting though, while seated I could feel some give through the seat tube and post, making for a smooth ride. There isn't much patchy asphalt on this route, so I can't comment on road chatter. The frame had internal routing for all cables and I didn't hear any odd noises from within. I should note though that I re-routed the internal cables so they cross inside. I do this for shorter and smoother cable routing up front. That was a pain to do, but with a coat hanger and patience it didn't take too long. One odd thing about the routing is the sleeve for the front derailleur that is molded into the chainstay / bottom bracket area. The angle is a little off, or it is a little too close to the drive side, but certainly works. I trimmed it down a little and it is fine, but it would be better off if it were moved a bit more to the center.

I'm still waiting on the forgotten seatpost, which should arrive this week. Right now I'm using an aluminum Race Face Evolve from one of my mountain bikes. The carbon one will probably absorb more road vibrations and will certainly be lighter. Once everything is set I'll weigh it and report back.

I also want to mention the new bars I'm using. I purchased them from Williams Cycling and really like them. They have a shallow drop (123mm) and a flattened, but not too big, top section. They are the first compact bars I've used and are fantastic. At 235 grams and only $69, I think they're a great deal. Maxim ACS.

I guess I should have removed the seat bag for the photos. Oh well. More photos on Flickr


----------



## Seneb

maxxevv said:


> Not a good idea. Would suggest using the good old PVC pipe ramming method discussed previously in the threads to get the race sitting snug instead.


I used a similar method and couldn't get it down any further.


----------



## maxxevv

Seneb said:


> I used a similar method and couldn't get it down any further.


It also depends on the type of crown race design. Some do have a 1mm step underneath them. Or a significant chamfer for removal purposes. Do post some picts, will be able to assess better then.


----------



## svard75

Seneb said:


> They simply pushed in. There was the tiniest amount of play (seriously tiny) that went away when everything was snugged up. The only concern I have is that the headset race doesn't fully sit on the top of the fork crown. It is hovering by about 1mm. I'm thinking of pulling it, checking the fork, and shaving it a bit if necessary. Anyone have an opinion on this??


Don't touch the carbon at all for any reason. The race can be applied with sufficient force or by cutting a slit in the race itself. Either way is acceptable and has been discussed here over and over and over so please don't spawn a discussion around the method again  Just make sure you don't shave the fork to make it fit.


----------



## Seneb

svard75 said:


> Don't touch the carbon at all for any reason. The race can be applied with sufficient force or by cutting a slit in the race itself. Either way is acceptable and has been discussed here over and over and over so please don't spawn a discussion around the method again  Just make sure you don't shave the fork to make it fit.


Let me expand a bit. I think there is some leftover carbon from the mold that didn't get properly cleaned up. I remember seeing two tiny little "buttresses" (one on each side) between the crown and steer tube. It's not a matter of the entire steer tube being uniformly oversized. I will see about removing the race to get some pics when I have time.

Actually, I found a photo that, after adjusting, shows it fairly well...








Another angle...


----------



## Triaxtremec

I'm also looking at ordering some parts from e_baygoods on ebay and was curious how well his carbon bars have been holding up or any of these chinese carbon bars are doing?


----------



## bmcv11

Seneb said:


> They simply pushed in. There was the tiniest amount of play (seriously tiny) that went away when everything was snugged up. The only concern I have is that the headset race doesn't fully sit on the top of the fork crown. It is hovering by about 1mm. I'm thinking of pulling it, checking the fork, and shaving it a bit if necessary. Anyone have an opinion on this??


My top bearing just drops in but the bottom one is going to need pressing. My crown race has a 1mm gap as well, but it's home as far as it will go. You can tell by the sound of the mallet blows on the pvc pipe.


----------



## Seneb

bmcv11 said:


> My top bearing just drops in but the bottom one is going to need pressing. My crown race has a 1mm gap as well, but it's home as far as it will go. You can tell by the sound of the mallet blows on the pvc pipe.


I can't remember which bearing it was, but on my Blue Norcross I had to use extra hand force to pop the bearing in, but used no tools. Of course, it's impossible to say what you need to do without seeing it in person! Good luck!


----------



## bmcv11

Seneb said:


> I can't remember which bearing it was, but on my Blue Norcross I had to use extra hand force to pop the bearing in, but used no tools. Of course, it's impossible to say what you need to do without seeing it in person! Good luck!


Cheers Seneb....you've been very helpful.


----------



## jordo_99

Seneb said:


> Let me expand a bit. I think there is some leftover carbon from the mold that didn't get properly cleaned up. I remember seeing two tiny little "buttresses" (one on each side) between the crown and steer tube. It's not a matter of the entire steer tube being uniformly oversized. I will see about removing the race to get some pics when I have time.
> 
> Actually, I found a photo that, after adjusting, shows it fairly well...
> [Two pictures showing the fork]


If it were me, I would just sand that piece down to be level with the rest, but be extremely careful that you don't sand the rest of the fork.

Might want to wait around for others to respond as well, but there's no way that sliver of carbon is needed structurally.


----------



## Seneb

jordo_99 said:


> If it were me, I would just sand that piece down to be level with the rest, but be extremely careful that you don't sand the rest of the fork.
> 
> Might want to wait around for others to respond as well, but there's no way that sliver of carbon is needed structurally.


That's exactly what I was thinking. :thumbsup:


----------



## zigmeister

Don't listen to people that say "don't touch the carbon!!!!" 

You can sand stuff like that down. The epoxy resin along with the carbon is what makes carbon strong when made properly in the molds and cured correctly. 

Some slight sanding on surfaces to remove imperfections is not a big deal. It is common when prepping frames to sand them before paint/clear coat. They don't come out perfect of the mold!

Email any carbon repair place, they will tell you the same...

Just don't go crazy with the sanding and avoid carbon dust and inhaling it. Just enough to remove the imperfections is fine.


----------



## LONDON-GUY

I to would not have a problem with removing what you show in the pictures and the lower race will then seat as it should.


----------



## beston

bevo21 said:


> After more than a year and 6000 happy km on my FM028 I have now a (small) problem. The rear hanger broke last Sunday, and I had to replace it with the share one I got form Dengfu when I bought the frame and some other parts. I like to have again a spare one or two, so I have mailed to Mina ([email protected]) who was my contact then. But there are some problems over there, isn't it, as I read in this topic and nr,5? I also remember someone knew a company who had many rear hangers, but I can't find it anymore. Any one suggestions, thanks in advance.


All Derailleur Hangers

happy searching! keep in mind that some hangers look very similar, but one version mounts on the interior of the frame, and the other one will mount on the outside.


----------



## Crawf

persondude27 said:


> Hey ya'll,
> 
> Welcome back from your forum vacations! Hopefully everyone watched the Nazi movie.
> 
> Looks like Wonderful Pistachios are racing on FM015s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're branded as "Broken Bones" bicycles. Looks to be a 12K matte FM015 with Microshift and Edge Design wheels.
> 
> Looks like both of those guys may snap the frame in half during a sprint...


Wow those decals are truly terrible.
Those guys may as well be wearing g-strings they've yanked there shorts up so high to pose their quads! lol


----------



## Wharfrat03

*Wow*

Wow,,,,,


----------



## svard75

That small piece is leftovers from the epoxy leaking out of the fork mold. Its safe to remove carefully and slowly. I was under the impression that you were going to sand down the steertube so the crown fits. 





Seneb said:


> Let me expand a bit. I think there is some leftover carbon from the mold that didn't get properly cleaned up.  I remember seeing two tiny little "buttresses" (one on each side) between the crown and steer tube. It's not a matter of the entire steer tube being uniformly oversized. I will see about removing the race to get some pics when I have time.
> 
> Actually, I found a photo that, after adjusting, shows it fairly well...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another angle...


----------



## Bridgey

Great Keen Bike sent me pictures of my bike that I got them to make up for me. Love it. Here is the link to my frame. GreatKeen Bike Sport Equipment Co.,Ltd
. I think they are using my decals, etc for others that are interested. It wouldn't be hard to change the Mad-Dog to Catma, Dogman, or whatever you wish. I got mine built in BB30. They charged an extra $40 for the change in decals. Maybe you guys might escape it now that they are already made. 
Will send pictures of complete build, but so far happy. They are sending it today.


----------



## Triaxtremec

For some reason my posts in this thread are always deleted, all I want to know is if people are having as good of luck with the Chinese direct bars as they are having with the frames and wheels?


----------



## chipgrafx

Triaxtremec said:


> For some reason my posts in this thread are always deleted, all I want to know is if people are having as good of luck with the Chinese direct bars as they are having with the frames and wheels?


Your previous post about the Chinese bars is still here...
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...rect-version-6-0-a-272806-41.html#post3855886

Though, it looks like no one has answered your question.


----------



## KenRider

Anyone knows what's the pricing for the MT053/AC053? Miracle was out of stock but I replied that it was okay I just wanted to know the price but Lisa did not replied ever since?


----------



## bmcv11

@Seneb Thanks for the ride report....sounds good. Bike looks superb.......great detail pics on Flickr also.......cheers.


----------



## Coolhand

Triaxtremec said:


> For some reason my posts in this thread are always deleted, all I want to know is if people are having as good of luck with the Chinese direct bars as they are having with the frames and wheels?


The issue is on your end I think, I checked and none of your posts have been deleted.


----------



## Seneb

svard75 said:


> That small piece is leftovers from the epoxy leaking out of the fork mold. Its safe to remove carefully and slowly. I was under the impression that you were going to sand down the steertube so the crown fits.


Any recommendation on what to use? I was thinking of using my Dremel with a sanding band to get the main part then sandpaper by hand to finish.


----------



## maxxevv

That's overkill, a small hand file will get that cleared in under 3 minutes if done correctly. And you do get better control with a hand file too.


----------



## jordo_99

Seneb said:


> Any recommendation on what to use? I was thinking of using my Dremel with a sanding band to get the main part then sandpaper by hand to finish.


I'll second the handfile...I've been experimenting with metal filing of bike components. weight weenie stuff...but with old/broken components to see how much weight can be dropped...just a fun experiment.

This is being done on metal and it doesn't take all that long...carbon fiber would probably feel like butter compared to aluminum and steel that I'm working with. I'm just worried that a dremel doesn't give you as much control and the tiniest slip could mess up the fork (I also own a dremel and would use the chainsaw sharpener for this if not using a file).


----------



## Seneb

Thanks, maxxevv & jordo. I'm very controlled with the Dremel, but will try it with the file. Cheers.


----------



## zigmeister

KenRider said:


> Anyone knows what's the pricing for the MT053/AC053? Miracle was out of stock but I replied that it was okay I just wanted to know the price but Lisa did not replied ever since?


MT053 Matte Black Frame 54cm from Miracle was $525. Shipping $90. Paypal 3.5% fee $24.

Total was around $630 or so.


----------



## zigmeister

Seneb said:


> Any recommendation on what to use? I was thinking of using my Dremel with a sanding band to get the main part then sandpaper by hand to finish.


400grit should be fine. Then hit it with some 1000grit and maybe 1500wet afterwards to get it right.

I've used this combo before, and even emory cloth, but emory can gouge it, so I would just stick with 400grit. Then the 1000grit to finish it off/smooth it out.


----------



## Seneb

zigmeister said:


> 400grit should be fine. Then hit it with some 1000grit and maybe 1500wet afterwards to get it right.
> 
> I've used this combo before, and even emory cloth, but emory can gouge it, so I would just stick with 400grit. Then the 1000grit to finish it off/smooth it out.


Thanks!


----------



## Serve

Hello chinees bikers.
Last weekend i raced flanders classic.
It was a bike ride 150km on cobblestones and my mc008 did not have any problems.
Next day it was for the pros and i saw lots of broken wheels frames and riders.
At one place a team was bikeless everything was broken,
So dont worry about the strength.
Greeting Serve from holland


----------



## GA1911

*Downtube barrel adjusters*

Just picked up my Hong Fu FM015 from the post office, six days ship time, not too bad. Anyway, I knew the frame would not come with the downtube barrel adjusters, so was wonder what you guys are using. Is it a 5mm adjuster? I found some Token CNC adjusters on eBay, but wanted to know what folks are using.

Thanks...


----------



## robc in wi

Serve said:


> Hello chinees bikers.
> Last weekend i raced flanders classic.
> It was a bike ride 150km on cobblestones and my mc008 did not have any problems.
> Next day it was for the pros and i saw lots of broken wheels frames and riders.
> At one place a team was bikeless everything was broken,
> So dont worry about the strength.
> Greeting Serve from holland


Way to go Serve. My 008 is up and running with Sram Red crankset, Force shifters, brakes, and derailleurs. Got some free used Bontrager Race Lite X wheels on it for now. It is one sweet, stable, and fast ride. I kind of wish I had gone with matte 3K finish and no logo because my logo isn't exactly how I would have liked it. That and the white paint is a pain to keep clean. I love the bike though.:thumbsup:


----------



## steviemidnight

neco headset installation help please?
Fm015, the bottom bearing needs some minor and on the frame to be fitted, i think i could force the bearing but must be some clear coat as others appear to have had the same issue. top bearing slips in nicely. I can't see the requirement for a pvc pipe method to fit the headset? unless i'm missing something

Now what do i do with the remaining parts - whats with the metal washers and the rest i don't appear to need anything else other than the cover and topcap. please can someone just explain how it should fit together

thank you


----------



## relsah

steviemidnight said:


> neco headset installation help please?
> Fm015, the bottom bearing needs some minor and on the frame to be fitted, i think i could force the bearing but must be some clear coat as others appear to have had the same issue. top bearing slips in nicely. I can't see the requirement for a pvc pipe method to fit the headset? unless i'm missing something
> 
> Now what do i do with the remaining parts - whats with the metal washers and the rest i don't appear to need anything else other than the cover and topcap. please can someone just explain how it should fit together
> 
> thank you


here you go

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...ect-version-5-0-a-241785-112.html#post3479581


----------



## wevergo

Serve said:


> Hello chinees bikers.
> Last weekend i raced flanders classic.
> It was a bike ride 150km on cobblestones and my mc008 did not have any problems.
> Next day it was for the pros and i saw lots of broken wheels frames and riders.
> At one place a team was bikeless everything was broken,
> So dont worry about the strength.
> Greeting Serve from holland


Prachtige fiets!
Mooie kleurstelling.
Ik heb een keer overwogen om dezelfde Miracle fiets/kleurstelling te kopen maar dan in de mat uitvoering.
Veel plezier met deze fraaie fiets.

wevergo from Holland.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

wevergo said:


> Prachtige fiets!
> Mooie kleurstelling.
> Ik heb een keer overwogen om dezelfde Miracle fiets/kleurstelling te kopen maar dan in de mat uitvoering.
> Veel plezier met deze fraaie fiets.
> 
> wevergo from Holland.


quote:

Beautiful bicycle! Beautiful color position. I considered ride a bicycle to buy a time round the same Miracle/color position but then in the mat execution. Many plezier with this fine bicycle. 

Wevergo from Holland. 

unquote:



_direct translation using a website translator ... not exact but you get what Wever was getting at ..._


----------



## humpside

PaxRomana said:


> Has anyone ordered the Time RXRS knockoff from CyclingYong? I'm wondering if that is actually a lugged frame, as the original, or if it is a monocoque made to look like a lugged frame.


PaxRomana:
I would stay away from CyclingYong. I've been working with everyone there and Dongguan Huashun (factory for Cycling Yong) for the past 6 months due to a bad frame. The first frame I received broke 30 minutes into the ride at the front cable barrel adjuster. It ripped right out of the frame, leaving my Ride On Gore cable dangling off, as soon as I started climbing up a hill. So after much debate, I paid $75 to send the frame back to Cycling Yong for them to replace it, which Yong finally agreed to. After 4 months of following up every other day, they finally had the replacement frame ready to send back to me! I won't even go into that nightmare of a story. After all that waiting, arguing, pleading, threatening, they tell me that they won't ship me the new frame unless I pay them $90 to cover the shipping costs to send me the replacement frame! Even though Yong initially told me he'd cover the freight since it was a defective frame. Nonetheless, they didn't honor that so I had no choice. It was either that, or be out of pocket the money I already spent with no frame at all.

I paid the $90 and a week later received the replacement frame. Cycling Yong must have been unhappy with me, because as soon as I opened the box, I noticed that they used significantly less padding and the quality of the frame was considerably worse than the first version that I received. That poor packaging job resulted in a cracked frame right by the bottom bracket. And you can see from the picture below, the paint job around the bottom bracket is quite messy. It's also poorly done around the front derailleur area. So now I've spent $1,025 ($860 for the frame + $75 to ship it back to them + $90 to ship it back to me) with nothing to show for it but a broken, piece of crap frame. Of course I e-mailed Yong right away and the response that I got from them was... "We'll try to submit a claim through the local post office." I asked if I would get another frame and they ignored me. I'm not surprised. I think I'm sh*t out of luck.

Yes, I know I should've never dealt with them in the first place, but I didn't know about their poor reputation until after I started doing more research and found the rbr forums. Bottom line, I made a stupid mistake dealing with Cycling Yong and got ripped off buying rubbish. $%$##)(*%#%##)(*&#@#$%^[email protected]


----------



## PaxRomana

Humpside, I am very sorry to hear about your case. I have no intention of purchasing anything from CyclingYong. I was only asking because I am wondering if the Chinese manufacturers are now copying lugged frames. It appears that their copies are quite bad. I would certainly advise anyone to stay away from CyclingYong. 

If you're going to buy Chinese/Taiwanese frames, I would recommend Trigon. I have done business with them and they are top notch.


----------



## Radioactive Man

Yep I had a similar debacle with Cycling Yong he is a crook! Stay away.... :mad2:


----------



## GiantTCR

*hmmm*

This looks mighty familiar...


----------



## Tswifty

GiantTCR said:


> This looks mighty familiar...


Though Neilpryde isnt a china company. So it does look like a BMC but it still isnt one. Everything looks the same but isnt the same?


----------



## kanekikapu

this is an interesting read… and plenty of photos

Swift Carbon: Inside A High-end Chinese Bike Factory - BikeRadar


----------



## GiantTCR

kanekikapu said:


> this is an interesting read… and plenty of photos
> 
> Swift Carbon: Inside A High-end Chinese Bike Factory - BikeRadar



Nice bikes, the question is can they be sourced from miracle or the others??


----------



## roadbiker20

Serve said:


> Hello chinees bikers.
> Last weekend i raced flanders classic.
> It was a bike ride 150km on cobblestones and my mc008 did not have any problems.
> Next day it was for the pros and i saw lots of broken wheels frames and riders.
> At one place a team was bikeless everything was broken,
> So dont worry about the strength.
> Greeting Serve from holland


Serve,
Great looking bike!!! I'm still waiting on a quote from Miracle Trade on a MC008. How much was your frame??


----------



## chucksgaul

*Problems with Cyclingyong*

Hi everyone, in january i purchased a frame from cyclingyong. Initially there was good communication etc... They told me there was a shortage regarding the frame size i required.
then an email to let me know they were painting it..This was early February...from that point on... nothing. No response to emails.. their eBay account has disappeared (states no longer a registered user). They don't answer MSN chat once they know it's me trying to get information about my purchase but happily chat and try to sell frames if i chat using a friends MSN ID. Does anybody have any experience of dealing with Cyclingyong or any advice for trying to get some meaningful contact with them to try and find out what's going on.

I'd really appreciate any help here.

Thanks


----------



## chucksgaul

Hi everyone, 

sorry if i double -posted think i posted in the wrong place before.. newbie error!!


in january i purchased a frame from cyclingyong. Initially there was good communication etc... They told me there was a shortage regarding the frame size i required.
Then an email to let me know they were painting it..This was early February...from that point on... nothing..... No response to emails.. their eBay account has disappeared (states no longer a registered user). They don't answer MSN chat once they know it's me trying to get information about my purchase but happily chat and try to sell frames if i chat using a friends MSN ID. Does anybody have any experience of dealing with Cyclingyong or any advice for trying to get some meaningful contact with them to try and find out what's going on.

I'd really appreciate any help here.

Thanks


----------



## cansprint

did you try for a refund?


----------



## chucksgaul

cheers for the reply cansprint, i can't get any response from them at all. I've sent numerous emails asking for some update as to the situation but no reply.


----------



## cansprint

how did you pay?


----------



## roadbiker20

I know this is a bit off topic, but has anyone ordered gear from 4ucycling.com?? are they legit??


----------



## chucksgaul

paid with paypal. have contacted them.. waiting for reply


----------



## fab4

chucksgaul said:


> paid with paypal. have contacted them.. waiting for reply


Report it to paypal and see if you can get a refund for your money. Your credit card company too if you used them via paypal. Here are more email address for cyclingyong: [email protected], [email protected]. Keep us posted with your issue. Good luck.


----------



## KenRider

zigmeister said:


> MT053 Matte Black Frame 54cm from Miracle was $525. Shipping $90. Paypal 3.5% fee $24.
> 
> Total was around $630 or so.


Thanks! 
Happy Riding.


----------



## chucksgaul

fab4 - thanks for the email address'.. i'll give them a go and let you know how i get on. some really great help on this forum. Cyclingyong seem genuine .. hopefully it's a stock issue or something. be nice if they kept in touch with their customers


----------



## thatkidduffy

Received my FM098 from deng fu over the past week or so, and managed to get it built up this weekend. Really smooth transaction, all dealt with through the 'other forum'. Managed a 30 mile ride yesterday, but it pissed it down after the first 10 miles, so no decent chance to get a good idea on the ride. Seems plenty stiff and eager to go fast. I'll update once I've got some miles on it.

One thing yesterday taught me though: the brakes are rather scary in the wet!!


----------



## fab4

thatkidduffy said:


> Received my FM098 from deng fu over the past week or so, and managed to get it built up this weekend. Really smooth transaction, all dealt with through the 'other forum'. Managed a 30 mile ride yesterday, but it pissed it down after the first 10 miles, so no decent chance to get a good idea on the ride. Seems plenty stiff and eager to go fast. I'll update once I've got some miles on it.
> 
> One thing yesterday taught me though: the brakes are rather scary in the wet!!



Good looking FM098 you have. How much does it weigh as pictured?


----------



## jcslp15

Awesome Ride. How deep are the wheels?


----------



## maxxevv

Nice build!


----------



## thatkidduffy

fab4 said:


> Good looking FM098 you have. How much does it weigh as pictured?


haven't managed to get it on the scales yet. 

It seems a vast improvement from my 2008 Specialized Allez Elite though.


----------



## thatkidduffy

jcslp15 said:


> Awesome Ride. How deep are the wheels?


went for the 50mm clinchers. Again from Deng fu.


----------



## Tswifty

Just a quick and rather random question.
Does anyone have any experience with this company?

Guangzhou DNK Carbon Fiber Technology Co., Ltd. 
Guangzhou DNK Carbon Fiber Technology Co., Ltd. - Carbon Accessory, Frame, Fork

Also i like the look of that FM098 not a fan of the 3k finish though.


----------



## beston

thatkidduffy said:


> Received my FM098 from deng fu over the past week or so, and managed to get it built up this weekend. Really smooth transaction, all dealt with through the 'other forum'. Managed a 30 mile ride yesterday, but it pissed it down after the first 10 miles, so no decent chance to get a good idea on the ride. Seems plenty stiff and eager to go fast. I'll update once I've got some miles on it.


Awesome build. I'm getting in on the next group buy and I'm going with the 3K matte (but no decals). You did a great job putting that bike together.

Just out of curiosity, how did you find running the cables through the frame? Does the housing go through the frame to, or is there some kind of liner in there?


----------



## relsah

thatkidduffy said:


> Received my FM098 from deng fu over the past week or so, and managed to get it built up this weekend. Really smooth transaction, all dealt with through the 'other forum'. Managed a 30 mile ride yesterday, but it pissed it down after the first 10 miles, so no decent chance to get a good idea on the ride. Seems plenty stiff and eager to go fast. I'll update once I've got some miles on it.
> 
> One thing yesterday taught me though: the brakes are rather scary in the wet!!


that's a sweet lookin' ride. i like the "D-WORKS" decal. what color is that decal, gloss black or gray? did you apply any clearcoat over the decal?

how did you run the cable under the bottom bracket. i'd assume that just like most of the fm098s that it did not come with a cable guide under the BB. i'd appreciate if you can take a picture of it too.

one last thing, i noticed that you have an inline cable adjuster, is it really necesasary. how much of a help is that when running an internal cable system?

thanks


----------



## zigmeister

thatkidduffy said:


>



The FM098 are growing on me. I'm still big fan of the arched top tube, but it is growing on me....but the thing looks fast, and the sealth look is pretty sweet for sure.

Nicely built.

When you get a chance, would be interested in a complete weight with pedals, computer etc...as the photo shows.

Getting the itch to build another bike now, this is a candidate frame for sure.

Oh also, what do you mean dealt with on the "other forum"? Didn't you just deal directly with Dengfu through their email, or did you do some group buy on another forum?

Thanks


----------



## thatkidduffy

beston said:


> Awesome build. I'm getting in on the next group buy and I'm going with the 3K matte (but no decals). You did a great job putting that bike together.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, how did you find running the cables through the frame? Does the housing go through the frame to, or is there some kind of liner in there?


Cable running couldn't have been simpler. Literally just poked the cable in the hole and pushed it through, not a single problem with any of the them.

Seems to have an internal housing, as there was no cable liner sticking out of any of the holes, as I have seen on some frames.


----------



## thatkidduffy

relsah said:


> that's a sweet lookin' ride. i like the "D-WORKS" decal. what color is that decal, gloss black or gray? did you apply any clearcoat over the decal?
> 
> how did you run the cable under the bottom bracket. i'd assume that just like most of the fm098s that it did not come with a cable guide under the BB. i'd appreciate if you can take a picture of it too.
> 
> one last thing, i noticed that you have an inline cable adjuster, is it really necesasary. how much of a help is that when running an internal cable system?
> 
> thanks


Thanks! Decal is just plain black (ie, not matte) from Marco Pollo. No clearcoat, just stuck straight on there. May look at that further down the line though. 

I did the same as several people have done under the bottom bracket, just a piece of cable outer between the two holes. It looks really tidy. I'll get a pic later on today for you.

I'll be honest with you, the adjusters are really handy to have and the rear one worked like a dream. The front one however, is a lot stiffer and so is of less use. This mean that dialling the front mech in was a pain in the arse. Got there in the end though, now just waiting for it to go out again when the cables stretch!!


----------



## jordo_99

thatkidduffy said:


> I'll be honest with you, the adjusters are really handy to have and the rear one worked like a dream. The front one however, is a lot stiffer and so is of less use. This mean that dialling the front mech in was a pain in the arse. Got there in the end though, now just waiting for it to go out again when the cables stretch!!


I'm going to be getting some inline adjusters in a couple days. I was debating on getting 2 sets to save on shipping but I might just put the adjusters on the rear cables for both my bikes. Is that the route you would go (aesthetics aside) or is it worth using one for the front shifter cable as well?


----------



## cansprint

No they will take your money if they can... do not use cyclingyong. i have screwed around by them...they cleared feedback on their webpage because it was full of negative feedback. If you used paypal do a dispute before 45 days or you may get nothing!!!!!!!!!
I am talking from experience!
Beware


----------



## thatkidduffy

jordo_99 said:


> I'm going to be getting some inline adjusters in a couple days. I was debating on getting 2 sets to save on shipping but I might just put the adjusters on the rear cables for both my bikes. Is that the route you would go (aesthetics aside) or is it worth using one for the front shifter cable as well?


this is the first time I've used them, and I'd definitely recommend them with internal cabling for front and rear tbh.


----------



## relsah

thatkidduffy said:


> Thanks! Decal is just plain black (ie, not matte) from Marco Pollo. No clearcoat, just stuck straight on there. May look at that further down the line though.
> 
> I did the same as several people have done under the bottom bracket, just a piece of cable outer between the two holes. It looks really tidy. I'll get a pic later on today for you.
> 
> I'll be honest with you, the adjusters are really handy to have and the rear one worked like a dream. The front one however, is a lot stiffer and so is of less use. This mean that dialling the front mech in was a pain in the arse. Got there in the end though, now just waiting for it to go out again when the cables stretch!!


you just sold me now on that inline adjusters :thumbsup: and i'll wait for the pics

thanks


----------



## chucksgaul

cansprint, thanks for the reply, i think i'm learning the hard way here.. i noticed that their website had plenty of negative feedback from people in my position and they wiped it all off but are responding to new sales on there. it's a frustrating experience. I'm sure the majority of companies discussed on here provide a good service... feel like a total sucker for picking the dodgy one. so if this is a warning to anyone... go careful if you deal with Cyclingyong


----------



## nickl75

zigmeister said:


> Oh also, what do you mean dealt with on the "other forum"? Didn't you just deal directly with Dengfu through their email, or did you do some group buy on another forum?
> 
> Thanks


I think he is talking about velobuild.


----------



## gfzyriek

*Dumb Noob Can't Access 5.0 Thread*

I know what I'm looking for but I can't get there.

I was trying to find more info. on this ebay frame - 184962, ZCB-002

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Carbon-...&otn=5&po=LVI&ps=63&clkid=7609878268033289923

I get a search hit on the 5.0 thread but I can't get the page to load.

The geometry on the above frame for a 58cm works perfectly for me-- 73^ seat angle, 58cm top tube, 20cm head tube.

I am looking for something that is short(er) on the top tube but a tad higher on the head tube. You have any recommendations?

I'm also checking out the 60cm FM028, but it's a smidge long (58.6cm) and maybe a hair tall (21cm head tube).


----------



## steviemidnight

All,
I'm looking for a 3k carbon top cap for my fm015 project? 
now i'e spent some time googling but can't find a uk seller thats not wanting £20

Anyone found one or a cheap china version?

thanks


----------



## zigmeister

steviemidnight said:


> All,
> I'm looking for a 3k carbon top cap for my fm015 project?
> now i'e spent some time googling but can't find a uk seller thats not wanting £20
> 
> Anyone found one or a cheap china version?
> 
> thanks


These guys from Canada.


Torontocycles Headsets, Titanium Top Cap, Titanium Spacer, Aerozine


----------



## steviemidnight

thanks Zigmeister

I finally found someone in the uk that also does a few other goodies  carbon mech hanger
Fibre Lyte - Cycle Products - Ahead Cap

fibre-lyte.co.uk


----------



## Seneb

zigmeister said:


> These guys from Canada.
> Torontocycles Headsets, Titanium Top Cap, Titanium Spacer, Aerozine


I've ordered from them several times, and am currently waiting for another order that should arrive this week. The only thing you have to be aware of is that the colors of different products won't necessarily match since he buys from different manufacturers and then there are different dye lots as well. For the price (at least in the US) you can't really go wrong.


----------



## Vee

gfzyriek said:


> I know what I'm looking for but I can't get there.
> 
> I was trying to find more info. on this ebay frame - 184962, ZCB-002
> 
> eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices
> 
> I get a search hit on the 5.0 thread but I can't get the page to load.
> 
> The geometry on the above frame for a 58cm works perfectly for me-- 73^ seat angle, 58cm top tube, 20cm head tube.
> 
> I am looking for something that is short(er) on the top tube but a tad higher on the head tube. You have any recommendations?
> 
> I'm also checking out the 60cm FM028, but it's a smidge long (58.6cm) and maybe a hair tall (21cm head tube).


You have to set your Display Mode to Linear Mode. You can find this setting on the top right of any thread. Once you have logged in and set your Display Mode to Linear, you will have no trouble viewing the 5.0 thread.

To answer your questions on frame geometry. Generally, you can adjust for top tube lengths that are too short or long by swapping out stems of different length to achieve an overall reach that you would want. Head tube height can be adjusted for with headset spacers if the head tube is too short, and the height can be adjusted with an extreme negative angled stem (but only slightly in most cases) if the head tube is too long.

Personally, if the 50cm FM028 was too long or too tall at all, i would go at least one size down and compensate for it with spacers and a longer stem.


----------



## Vee

steviemidnight said:


> All,
> I'm looking for a 3k carbon top cap for my fm015 project?
> now i'e spent some time googling but can't find a uk seller thats not wanting £20
> 
> Anyone found one or a cheap china version?
> 
> thanks


Another option is Purely Custom Online Store - Headset Caps & Headset Screws - Custom Road Bicycle Accessories

They make 3k matte top caps for very cheap. I had one delaminate under torque when preloading the headset, though, but purelycustom was quick to send a replacement once I sent the defective one back to them.


----------



## ntb1001

I'm about to order the HF-FM066...light version.

I intend to build it with campy EPS record.

I'm unsure if I should order it with the standard BSA bottom bracket, or order it with the BB30 and use the campy adapter cups....any suggestions either way???


----------



## zigmeister

ntb1001 said:


> I'm about to order the HF-FM066...light version.
> 
> I intend to build it with campy EPS record.
> 
> I'm unsure if I should order it with the standard BSA bottom bracket, or order it with the BB30 and use the campy adapter cups....any suggestions either way???


My two cents...it depends...haha.

I had a CDale Supersix, of course they have BB30. Never had any issues with the setup, creaking etc..solid, and lighter than BSA.

I now have a MC053 with BSA SRAM GXP BB. Good thing with BSA, easy to just screw it in, torque it to spec, done. No pressing or concern about creaking ever.

But, I don't really like the looks of the external cup/bearing of BSA the more I run them, I prefer the cleaner look of BB30 type press-fit, plus the lighter weight of cranks/bearings, as well as they are supposed to be a stiffer setup in general over BSA.

I would think stiffness is more related to the layup of the BB area though and not so much the stiffness of the bearing/shell etc...maybe a combo? A lot makes up stiffness of cranks/bb I guess. But I think the generalization is BB30/30mm standard is supposed to be stiffer over standard BSA/68mm setups.

It is really up to you. I'm looking to do a new build, and I'm going back to BB30, and since I have a set of spare SRAM Red BB30 cranks from my CDale in a box, even better.

It really comes down to personal preference though it seems. Arguments for going both ways can be made. I just think the press fit 30mm setup is a cleaner, simpler and better design that lightens the bike and cranks up. Most manufacturers have accepted some like that, BB386, BB30, OSBB etc...all big manufacturers names for 30mm press fit bearings in the shell.


----------



## zigmeister

relsah said:


> you just sold me now on that inline adjusters :thumbsup: and i'll wait for the pics
> 
> thanks


I think just one adjuster on the RD is sufficient. Can't remember ever needing to adjust the FD. Maybe SRAM FD shifters are why? RD, another story entirely. Particularly if you are in a race/crit, get a flat, change a wheel, and now the cassettes and tension are all different like my setup. I run two pretty different carbon wheels...downside to not being able to afford a set of 303 FC tubulars AND clinchers! I have a cheap set of 50mm deep V carbon wheels for training and in the wheel bag on race day.

Nice while riding to just reach down and quiet up the drive train at will and not pull off to the side of the road or wait until a stop to mess with the tension. My LBS didn't sell them, but the mechanic I know in the back had some in the drawer, just tossed me a couple and said see ya later! I know, they are only like $10, well worth it though.


----------



## pyattbl

bevo21 said:


> After more than a year and 6000 happy km on my FM028 I have now a (small) problem. The rear hanger broke last Sunday, and I had to replace it with the share one I got form Dengfu when I bought the frame and some other parts. I like to have again a spare one or two, so I have mailed to Mina ([email protected]) who was my contact then. But there are some problems over there, isn't it, as I read in this topic and nr,5? I also remember someone knew a company who had many rear hangers, but I can't find it anymore. Any one suggestions, thanks in advance.


This may already be answered... I'm catching up on some older posts... but Mina's email changed. I used this one late last year for an FM098 frame order: [email protected]


----------



## zigmeister

steviemidnight said:


> thanks Zigmeister
> 
> I finally found someone in the uk that also does a few other goodies  carbon mech hanger
> Fibre Lyte - Cycle Products - Ahead Cap
> 
> fibre-lyte.co.uk


Yes...Fairwheel I think carries some of their stuff, but availability seems to be an issue at times.

Headsets : Fairwheel Bikes, Cycling Boutique



Fibre-Lyte Carbon Fibre Products


----------



## andresmuro

zigmeister said:


> 400grit should be fine. Then hit it with some 1000grit and maybe 1500wet afterwards to get it right.
> 
> I've used this combo before, and even emory cloth, but emory can gouge it, so I would just stick with 400grit. Then the 1000grit to finish it off/smooth it out.


1500 wet grit is totally unnecessary. Sanding down a little carbon is perfectly safe. You don't need to do the 1000 either. Just sand down until headset race fits flush.


----------



## elbee

*053 Frame Build*

Some comments on my build of an 053 frame from Miracle.

Frame was purchased to replace an existing titanium frame as i wanted something a little lighter. All components were swapped over from the old bike.

Communication with Miracle was straightforward via email. Frame was ordered on a Thursday and arrived at my home in Australia the following Tuesday. Frame was well protected and packaged.

Finish ordered was 3K clearcoat. There are some cosmetic blemishes where the various tubes have been bonded together. These joints are visible as ripples on the surface and are probably highlighted by the glossy clearcoat finish. On a more expensive frame these may have been more carefully finished or concealed by paint or decals. 

Structurally the frame seems quite sound and true. Bottom bracket and head tube show evidence of having been faced.

Saddle clamp as supplied was almost unuseable. Even after lubricating, if sufficient torque is applied to hold the saddle in place, then the side clamps become wedged into the post and cannot be rotated. This was solved by inserting a spacer between the side clamps.

Seat post clamps works perhaps too well. Adjusting seat height is not just a matter of loosening off a bolt and sliding the post up or down. I found the wedge becomes firmly attached to the seat post and the whole assembly has to be removed from the bike and the wedge prissed off the post before any adjustment could be made.

My only other concern with the frame is the placement of the rear derailleur cable exit. The cable exits at the dropout and can foul the skewer bolt. This makes rear wheel replacement a bit more complicated.

Otherwise the internal cabling was easy to install. I have not yet experienced any rattles from the internal cables that others have reported, although my frame is smaller (52cm) and this may have some effect.

I use a compact chainset and there was no problem with the braze-on adapter height using a Campag Chorus FD.

I expected the ride to be somewhat harsher than on the titanium frame but was surprised that it is no less comfortable, at least on the relatively smooth roads I have ridden on so far.

The 52cm frame has a slacker head tube angle (72 degrees) vs the larger size 053 frames and my old frame (73 degrees). It also has a deeper bottom bracket drop and slightly shorter wheelbase than my old bike. Handling is as expected given the geometry of the new frame. Slightly more input is required on turns but the bike feels very planted and stable on the road. In its only race to date it felt very secure in fast sweeping bends and very stable in the sprint. It may be less suitable in a criterium with tight corners - at least in this frame size.

Overall I am quite satisfied with the result. The transaction with Miracle and the build went smoothly and I am pleased with the performance of the bike.


----------



## zigmeister

elbee said:


> Some comments on my build of an 053 frame from Miracle.
> 
> Frame was purchased to replace an existing titanium frame as i wanted something a little lighter. All components were swapped over from the old bike.
> 
> Communication with Miracle was straightforward via email. Frame was ordered on a Thursday and arrived at my home in Australia the following Tuesday. Frame was well protected and packaged.
> 
> Finish ordered was 3K clearcoat. There are some cosmetic blemishes where the various tubes have been bonded together. These joints are visible as ripples on the surface and are probably highlighted by the glossy clearcoat finish. On a more expensive frame these may have been more carefully finished or concealed by paint or decals.
> 
> Structurally the frame seems quite sound and true. Bottom bracket and head tube show evidence of having been faced.
> 
> Saddle clamp as supplied was almost unuseable. Even after lubricating, if sufficient torque is applied to hold the saddle in place, then the side clamps become wedged into the post and cannot be rotated. This was solved by inserting a spacer between the side clamps.
> 
> Seat post clamps works perhaps too well. Adjusting seat height is not just a matter of loosening off a bolt and sliding the post up or down. I found the wedge becomes firmly attached to the seat post and the whole assembly has to be removed from the bike and the wedge prissed off the post before any adjustment could be made.
> 
> My only other concern with the frame is the placement of the rear derailleur cable exit. The cable exits at the dropout and can foul the skewer bolt. This makes rear wheel replacement a bit more complicated.
> 
> Otherwise the internal cabling was easy to install. I have not yet experienced any rattles from the internal cables that others have reported, although my frame is smaller (52cm) and this may have some effect.
> 
> I use a compact chainset and there was no problem with the braze-on adapter height using a Campag Chorus FD.
> 
> I expected the ride to be somewhat harsher than on the titanium frame but was surprised that it is no less comfortable, at least on the relatively smooth roads I have ridden on so far.
> 
> The 52cm frame has a slacker head tube angle (72 degrees) vs the larger size 053 frames and my old frame (73 degrees). It also has a deeper bottom bracket drop and slightly shorter wheelbase than my old bike. Handling is as expected given the geometry of the new frame. Slightly more input is required on turns but the bike feels very planted and stable on the road. In its only race to date it felt very secure in fast sweeping bends and very stable in the sprint. It may be less suitable in a criterium with tight corners - at least in this frame size.
> 
> Overall I am quite satisfied with the result. The transaction with Miracle and the build went smoothly and I am pleased with the performance of the bike.



Finish: I agree, just a few spots, particularly at the seat tube/top tube/stays where they all meet have some minor ripple/bumps. Otherwise, my UD matte finish is well done.

RD Cable: I noted this same thing. Not sure why they put it there either. I just use my smaller nut on the skewer from a titanium set, and the bike needs to be on the ground when changing wheels and then you put downward pressure to force the cable up enough for the wheel to sit in the drop securely and flat.

Seat post clamp: Yes, exactly as you describe, once it is in, it is tight...I like this personally. Once my seat height is set, I don't want to change it ever, so the more secure the better IMHO. Never had it slip. The secret to get it out easy, loosen the bolt, it will come upward since the metal piece it pulls on is wedged. Then, tap the bolt down so it forces the wedge downward. Then I lift up on the seat/post and it comes right out. The key is tapping the bolt down to force the wedge down and release that pressure, it comes right apart/out then I've found. At least makes it easier.

Saddle clamp: My seat slipped and tilted upward during a race. Of course, the race went across a brick section of road that was bumpy, it titled upward when I hit a big bump. Haven't had it slip/tilt otherwise though. I put carbon paste on the round pieces in the opening of the post to help reduce any chances of slippage. With that said, I was getting a creaking sound, people said it was the seat post/clamp around the forum. I found it was the seat rail clamps on the metal seat rails causing it. I just used some carbon paste on the seat rails, re-torqued, squeak went away. The past several pages back someone put a link to try and use the Bontrager mechanism which appears identical almost, just better made. Seems like an option to try for the $10 or whatever it costs. Also, I think part of the issue is the seatpost has a lot of offset to it. That puts extra torque on the seat/clamps during a ride, or while going over bumps instead of a zero offset which translates the bump straight up your bum.

Thanks for the review, overall nearly exactly what I experienced with my MC053 purchase/build as I posted a ways back in the thread.

Oh yeah...any photos of the build?!?!


----------



## ms6073

zigmeister said:


> The past several pages back someone put a link to try and use the Bontrager mechanism which appears identical almost, just better made. Seems like an option to try for the $10 or whatever it costs.


I have the Dengfu FM018 TT frame and did not purchase the Bontrager saddle clamp but simply added a spring of correct length and tension between the two clamps in the same manner as the Bontrager seat rail clamp.


----------



## Seneb

ms6073 said:


> I have the Dengfu FM018 TT frame and did not purchase the Bontrager saddle clamp but simply added a spring of correct length and tension between the two clamps in the same manner as the Bontrager seat rail clamp.


To piggyback on this... My "forgotten" seatpost from Flyxii arrived yesterday. Last night I took the clamp mechanism apart and it has a spring in it. I greased it lightly and installed my seat. While off the bike, it's pretty hard to rotate, but when the seatpost is in the frame it isn't much trouble. Interesting though, there are 5mm hex bolts on each side, but only one turns. Probably best to have a wrench in each to prevent stripping anything, but not completely necessary. One side of the clamp bolt looked like a really long brake nut, which could possibly be replaced with titanium to lighten the mechanism. Will have to investigate further...

EDIT - I forgot to mention that the clamp has "16 NM MAX" printed on each side, but that seems quite excessive. I'll play with my torque wrench and see what is reasonable, but I'm guessing 10 would be more than adequate.


----------



## zigmeister

Seneb said:


> To piggyback on this... My "forgotten" seatpost from Flyxii arrived yesterday. Last night I took the clamp mechanism apart and it has a spring in it. I greased it lightly and installed my seat. While off the bike, it's pretty hard to rotate, but when the seatpost is in the frame it isn't much trouble. Interesting though, there are 5mm hex bolts on each side, but only one turns. Probably best to have a wrench in each to prevent stripping anything, but not completely necessary. One side of the clamp bolt looked like a really long brake nut, which could possibly be replaced with titanium to lighten the mechanism. Will have to investigate further...


One more piggyback. Agree about the two 5mm bolts. I use one on the other side just to be sure it is supported and doesn't strip the bolt notches that are holding the one side secure.

I run about 7-8nm of torque on my seat clamp. Anybody else using a torque wrench and can comment?

Only had it slip one time during a bumpy brick road portion of a race, otherwise, the carbon paste and that torque has kept it secure.

I might get that Bontrager clamp for kicks and test it out.


----------



## cavern

*Looking for recent business experience with DNK Carbon Fiber Technology Co.*

I would appreciate if people who have recently dealt with DNK (specifically, Ms. Vivian Men) could share their experience.

I'd like to order parts from them but I am somewhat suspicious because they are asking for a 100% advance payment via wire transfer (they call it T/T). Is there a safer solution?


----------



## mmatrix

*never TT!*



cavern said:


> I would appreciate if people who have recently dealt with DNK (specifically, Ms. Vivian Men) could share their experience.
> 
> I'd like to order parts from them but I am somewhat suspicious because they are asking for a 100% advance payment via wire transfer (they call it T/T). Is there a safer solution?


if you go through and search payment methods on this site DON'T ever TT money, you have no come back. lots of Sad stories , set up a paypal account and pay that way, otherwise don't do the deal.


----------



## GiantTCR

*Calling Photo Shop expert*

Can you take the frame in the picture and change the red to a royal blue, the cervelo to vercelo, the s5 to G6 and where vroomen white design to cruising withmy design


----------



## Seneb

GiantTCR said:


> Can you take the frame in the picture and change the red to a royal blue, the cervelo to vercelo, the s5 to G6 and where vroomen white design to cruising withmy design


Does this work for you??


----------



## GiantTCR

*Thank you!!!*

You are the man, thank you so much, it looks perfect!:thumbsup:


----------



## Coolhand

*moderators note*

What *Vee* was helpfully trying to tell you is that violates the no counterfeits rule we have here.


----------



## Coolhand

I cleaned up the thread of posts involved to keep the thread on track.


----------



## Hiro11

I already posted a ride review of the Miracle Trade MC053 I bought, I thought I'd post a few more points about the frame and answer a bunch of questions that have been PMed to me. I've ridden about 1500 miles on the frame so I feel I have a few good answers at this point:

1. The internal cables do rattle. I bought some high-density chair foam at a craft store, cut off two blocks of it and stuffed it tightly into the top tube and down tube. I used a stiff piece of bent wire to do it. Please note that you need to take the fork off to do this which is a bit of a pain. I recommend doing it first before you start assembling the bike. The good news is that this simple fix works like a charm. Bike is completely silent now.

2. I've had no problems with the seatpost clamp or the seat rail clamp. Both haven't creaked at all or slipped. If you buy this frame, you're stuck with the Mircale Trade (non-round) seatpost, something I was a bit worried about. It turns out that it works great.

3. I've had no problems with the included headset. It's never loosened and has been invisible. I bought two spares anyway when I bought the fram just in case but I don't think I'll need them for a while. The integral cups in the frame seem very solid.

4. The RD cable comes out right in front of the skewer. This is a bit annoying as it makes mounting the rear wheel slightly harder than it needs to be.

5. The internal cables are friction free. No problems with shifting or braking.

6. Sidenote: I also bought a set of Miracle Trade bars and a stem. The bars have been terrific: I like the shape, they're durable, stiff and buzz-free. Also, they're very light (right around 200g). The stem, though, was a piece of crap. I never really trusted the stem. My fears were realized when the pinch bolt holders snapped at 4nm which seems very fragile ( I took off the stem to do the cable fix above). Also, the stem isn't that light. I bought a cheap Nashbar carbon-wrapped alloy stem and it matches the bars perfectly and works better.

Overall, terrific bike, highly recommended. It rides great (it's become "my bike" very quickly) and I've gotten many compliments on how it looks. It's a straight-up aggressive, stiff race bike. It hauls ass. I love this bike on 40 mile rides where people are just hammering. Very happy with the purchase. Hopefully this is helpful to others considering buying this frame.


----------



## rogers1993uk

hi all,
im 19 and just discovered this forum and this is my first post . i cant figure out what size frame i will need if i was to purchase the DengFu FM015 isp i dont know what size frame set i would need.

im 189cm with an in seam of 84cm and weigh 181lb thanks for the help


----------



## Hiro11

rogers1993uk said:


> hi all,
> im 19 and just discovered this forum and this is my first post . i cant figure out what size frame i will need if i was to purchase the DengFu FM015 isp i dont know what size frame set i would need.
> 
> im 189cm with an in seam of 84cm and weigh 181lb thanks for the help


If you already have a bike that fits, measure the various dimensions and buy the frame that matches the most closely. If not, go to a bike store, try out a bunch of bikes, find one that fits and then go online and get all of the dimensions. Be sure to note stem length. Also, remember than top tube length is much more imporant than seat tub length.

Lastly, buying a Chinese direct frame is not necessarily something I'd recommend for beginners. You really have to now what you want.


----------



## GA1911

*SP003 seatpost help*

I'm putting together my Hong Fu FM015, and everything is going together easily. However, when I installed the SP003 seatpost, the nose of the saddle is pointed up and it does not appear there is any tilt adjustment. I find it hard to believe this is the case, so if anyone has one of these setposts, and I have seen a few in images, please let me know how to make this adjustment. I figured when I loosed the clamp bolts this would allow the mount to tilt, but no such luck.

Thanks...


----------



## FTR

GA1911 said:


> I'm putting together my Hong Fu FM015, and everything is going together easily. However, when I installed the SP003 seatpost, the nose of the saddle is pointed up and it does not appear there is any tilt adjustment. I find it hard to believe this is the case, so if anyone has one of these setposts, and I have seen a few in images, please let me know how to make this adjustment. I figured when I loosed the clamp bolts this would allow the mount to tilt, but no such luck.
> 
> Thanks...


You are about the 100th person to post this same question.
The answer is in the thread.
There is a search function and it does work.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/3845538-post912.html


----------



## f3rg

rogers1993uk said:


> hi all,
> im 19 and just discovered this forum and this is my first post . i cant figure out what size frame i will need if i was to purchase the DengFu FM015 isp i dont know what size frame set i would need.
> 
> im 189cm with an in seam of 84cm and weigh 181lb thanks for the help


I can't help with the size, but I have that same frameset, and I think you should go with the non-ISP version. The ISP is heavier due to the seat mast + topper. The OEM topper actually weighs as much as a lightweight seatpost. Aftermarket toppers can be lighter, but will cost as much as, or more than, a seatpost.

The seat mast is also 37mm around, which means most rear lights won't fit. It's a bigger hassle than it sounds when you have no other easy way to attach a rear light. If I could do it all over again, I'd get the non-ISP and a Carbon Cycles post, and be a lot happier.


----------



## Teo

rogers1993uk said:


> hi all,
> im 19 and just discovered this forum and this is my first post . i cant figure out what size frame i will need if i was to purchase the DengFu FM015 isp i dont know what size frame set i would need.
> 
> im 189cm with an in seam of 84cm and weigh 181lb thanks for the help



Take a look at Competitive Cyclist website, they have a fit calculator. I think it’s a good place to start. You’ll need a tape measure to get your measurements that are required.


----------



## FTR

medialab said:


> Finally finished my Chinarello build... here are some observations:
> 
> - The hole for attaching the rear brake caliper to the frame was too small in diameter - had to grind down the bolt cap to make it fit.
> 
> - The seat post was too tight and difficult to adjust... had to sand the inside of the seat post tube, apply liberal lubricant and adjust the hight using a rubber mallet.
> 
> - The cable guide under the BB was slightly long... easily clipped it to length.
> 
> - The hole for the cable to thread through the frame to the front derailed was partially painted over, had to open it using a sharp nail.
> 
> Overall very happy with the final build, looks great and rides like a dream. Just be aware that there are a few annoying manufacturing defects (I read a similar post several months back listing the same defects). Nothing that is going to affect the final build but annoying none-the-less.


Post deletion pending in....................


----------



## medialab

FTR said:


> Post deletion pending in....................


Because?


----------



## FTR

medialab said:


> Because?


Counterfeit frames are not allowed.
Look back only a page and you will see that Coolhand deleted a heap of posts for this reason.
Also the group buy of counterfeit Dogma's was deleted.


----------



## paule11

Because it has Pinarello printed on it and over the last few weeks moderators have been removing posts of counterfeit bikes.
It is a nice looking bike


----------



## medialab

FTR said:


> Counterfeit frames are not allowed.
> Look back only a page and you will see that Coolhand deleted a heap of posts for this reason.
> Also the group buy of counterfeit Dogma's was deleted.




IC... Please delete my post.


----------



## Bridgey

I am building my Chinarello. All going well. One question, when I do the internal cabling, do I leave the cable guides in for good or take them out? 

I have a 3mm gap in between the forks and the frame (headtube). I am hoping it won't matter. Can't get the fork crown down any further, nor could I get it back up to sand it down a little. It's on tight. I used some PVC plastic piping to bash it down. How hard can I do it without damaging the forks. I'm scared any harder I'll break them. I'm a pretty big guy and am doing it pretty hard. 
Pictures of my bike coming soon. (decaled a Chinarello, so no problem on here).


----------



## medialab

Bridgey said:


> I am building my Chinarello. All going well. One question, when I do the internal cabling, do I leave the cable guides in for good or take them out?
> 
> I have a 3mm gap in between the forks and the frame (headtube). I am hoping it won't matter. Can't get the fork crown down any further, nor could I get it back up to sand it down a little. It's on tight. I used some PVC plastic piping to bash it down. How hard can I do it without damaging the forks. I'm scared any harder I'll break them. I'm a pretty big guy and am doing it pretty hard.
> Pictures of my bike coming soon. (decaled a Chinarello, so no problem on here).




Yeah, the crown fits on VERY snug. I couldn't get mine down all the way and left a gap at the bottom about the width of a thin ID card. I probably could have put it on all the way but, like you, worried about breaking the fork.


----------



## thatkidduffy

^^ mine was a right struggle too. Gave it right (careful) battering with the pvc method, but did get it there in the end.


----------



## Mankul

Don't forget to invert the fork and ram the fork downwards to the stationary PVC pipe..... 
I left the internal guides there for the shifter cable s.Not so for the brake cables ask it is too thick to be slotted through the internal guide tube.


----------



## Rob81

anyone dealt with Flyxii?
I paid my frame weeks ago and I didn't get my tracking number yet, which addictionally was told will be shipped by "Air mail", which I suppose is something different than the traditional EMS (?)


----------



## Bridgey

Rob81 said:


> anyone dealt with Flyxii?
> I paid my frame weeks ago and I didn't get my tracking number yet, which addictionally was told will be shipped by "Air mail", which I suppose is something different than the traditional EMS (?)


I bought some stuff from them a few years ago. I had no problems, other than they were a bit slow to get my order moving. I think they also have an ebay shop. Forget the name though. I'm pretty sure you'll get your frame.


----------



## Seneb

Rob81 said:


> anyone dealt with Flyxii?
> I paid my frame weeks ago and I didn't get my tracking number yet, which addictionally was told will be shipped by "Air mail", which I suppose is something different than the traditional EMS (?)


Look a few pages back and you'll read about my positive and quick experience with them. You can try emailing [email protected].


----------



## alien4fish

zigmeister said:


> Criticize all you want. Do you want me to copy/paste the 10 emails back/forth between me and Miracle (Mecy Lin)? Cliff notes: I kept sending photos of what they sent me, they kept responding back saying it was the correct headset. Then they would say it should be H373, then they would tell me to take it to the bike shop and they will await the "engineers" at my bike shop as to whether it works and I don't know how to build a bike. Then it was more of the same, runaround, saying the headset should work blah blah blah.
> 
> After 1 week of going around in circles with them, screw it, the money isn't the issue really. It is the money/hassles/frustration etc..of dealing with them about $30 worth of headsets, which they sent me the wrong ones.
> 
> In the end, I basically had to threaten a Paypal dispute to either get the correct headsets/parts I paid for, or just refund me the $32 what I paid for these missing parts.
> 
> Only then, did I finally get refunded $32. That was yesterday. With an "apology".
> 
> That was their decision, not mine. I wanted the correct headset that fits this thing, but I also don't want to wait another 2 weeks for it to show up, or maybe they send me the wrong ones again?!?! Wouldn't put it past them that's for sure.
> 
> They never made any effort to offer/ship me a replacement as I paid for. Anybody in their right mind after a week of going around in circles would give up with these people.
> 
> In summary, good for you! You got them to communicate and get the order right. I on the other hand, was sent the wrong stuff, I was missing and extra rear hanger I paid for, and then got the run around from them over 7 days. Enough is enough.
> 
> I will post up my final build, takeaways and thoughts on the experience and bike later when I get it all done, likely next week. I will do this so others can have some information what to expect, what could go wrong, and any challenges specific to this frame.
> 
> :thumbsup:


"hand raised" Ummmmmm question:idea:
If I order one of these Carbon frame/fork combo's can I have Miracle install the headset at the factory before shipping to me? I am reading along here and feel your pain Zigmeister. This is supposed to be an enjoyable DYI Hobby/sport build thing and its gotten bogged down and less enjoyable and seems down right a PITA.......However, please continue I am reading along with great interest! And thanks for sharing!:thumbsup:


----------



## MojoHamuki

Does the aero chinarello use the same size/shape as the dogma? Mine stripped while tightening. Guess im stronger than it thought.


----------



## alien4fish

Wow! I FINALLY read thru all of pages And I am soooo impressed with everyones imagination and creativity in regards to components Carbon stems decal parodies:thumbsup: etc. So much so that I am planning my own Build in very near future. This is going to be my 1st build ever, So i may ask more than one dumb question
I am thinking the FM089( or 98 i think it is) I have to go back and look and do some research. But I like the look and the curved top tube.
1st question....... will Hungfu or Dengfu assemble the fork and headset to the frame? Or is that all on me?
thanks.........


----------



## relsah

thatkidduffy said:


> Thanks! Decal is just plain black (ie, not matte) from Marco Pollo. No clearcoat, just stuck straight on there. May look at that further down the line though.
> 
> I did the same as several people have done under the bottom bracket, just a piece of cable outer between the two holes. It looks really tidy. I'll get a pic later on today for you.
> 
> I'll be honest with you, the adjusters are really handy to have and the rear one worked like a dream. The front one however, is a lot stiffer and so is of less use. This mean that dialling the front mech in was a pain in the arse. Got there in the end though, now just waiting for it to go out again when the cables stretch!!


just wondering if you have already taken a picture of your cable routing under the BB


----------



## bmcv11

Rob81 said:


> anyone dealt with Flyxii?
> I paid my frame weeks ago and I didn't get my tracking number yet, which addictionally was told will be shipped by "Air mail", which I suppose is something different than the traditional EMS (?)


I wouldn't worry Rob81. Like Seneb, I've had a very positive experience with them, and could not be more pleased my frame & forks.

Apparently I can't post email addresses until I have 10 posts. I corresponded with Amy.......my next post will give you her email addy....I hope !!


----------



## bmcv11

Just email Amy on [email protected] and ask her what the situation is.


----------



## Rob81

Thanks everyone!
I hope they'll send me the tracking number in the next days so I could have the frame here for the end of this month


----------



## zigmeister

alien4fish said:


> "hand raised" Ummmmmm question:idea:
> If I order one of these Carbon frame/fork combo's can I have Miracle install the headset at the factory before shipping to me? I am reading along here and feel your pain Zigmeister. This is supposed to be an enjoyable DYI Hobby/sport build thing and its gotten bogged down and less enjoyable and seems down right a PITA.......However, please continue I am reading along with great interest! And thanks for sharing!:thumbsup:


Doubt they would. Doesn't matter. The solution is the Ritchey tapered drop in headset. $40 to your door.

Plus, I now have a Ritchey stem, bars, top cap and headset. Makes for a nice looking and quality cockpit.


----------



## robc in wi

alien4fish said:


> "hand raised" Ummmmmm question:idea:
> If I order one of these Carbon frame/fork combo's can I have Miracle install the headset at the factory before shipping to me? I am reading along here and feel your pain Zigmeister. This is supposed to be an enjoyable DYI Hobby/sport build thing and its gotten bogged down and less enjoyable and seems down right a PITA.......However, please continue I am reading along with great interest! And thanks for sharing!:thumbsup:


I doubt that Miracle or any of the companies will install it for you. There really is no need. The Neco headset that I ordered with my Miracle MC008 took less than 5 minutes to install and has worked perfectly in the 500 or so miles I have ridden in the past month. Just get the proper diameter pvc pipe, slide the crown race on, with the fork upside down tap the pvc on a hard surface and the race is seated. My friend used a Campy bearing press to install the lower bearing, the upper just drops in. A decent bike shop can do this in minutes. Zigmeister had a bad experience because they sent the wrong headset and wouldn't make it right.


----------



## flyjoe

I am having problems with 2 of the 3 frames that I have purchased. more to the point, the same problem with 2 frames of different design from different vendors. The rear drop outs are not formed in plane with the rear wheel. This is causing alignment problems with the rear derailure. One bike is out of true 3cm verticly. with this being the case, everytime I go from small ring to large ring I lose my adjustment in the rear, due to the swing of the rear derailure in an out of parallel angle. I am waiting for answers from each vendor. One is sending me parts to attempt a fix. the other I am still waiting for them to address the photos I have sent.
I am not a real happy camper at the moment . I knew there was a risk involved here. but now I guess we will see how well they deal with problems.


----------



## MojoHamuki

MojoHamuki said:


> Does the aero chinarello use the same size/shape as the dogma? Mine stripped while tightening. Guess im stronger than it thought.


Gonna have to order from china anyways. Just so you guys know because of all the copies pinarello is requiring local stores to make a special order and provide the serial code of the frame


----------



## csneom4a1

What frames are you having problems with? and what vendors?


----------



## flyjoe

csneom4a1 said:


> What frames are you having problems with? and what vendors?


While I would love to divulge that info at this time, I feel I need to be fair to the vendors and let them at least try to make me happy before I do that. So for now I will have to hold any id's.
However the frames are an 015 isp, and a chinerello copy. the maker of the 015 is sending me a new hanger and some parts for the seat mast cap that are failing to hold a positon. I will give them a try. The other frame I am waiting for them to look at some photos I sent and make a judgement as to what to do. 
I want them to have a chance to fix this issue before /if I release thier identitys. just to be fair.


----------



## csneom4a1

flyjoe said:


> I am having problems with 2 of the 3 frames that I have purchased. more to the point, the same problem with 2 frames of different design from different vendors. The rear drop outs are not formed in plane with the rear wheel. This is causing alignment problems with the rear derailure. One bike is out of true 3cm verticly. with this being the case, everytime I go from small ring to large ring I lose my adjustment in the rear, due to the swing of the rear derailure in an out of parallel angle. I am waiting for answers from each vendor. One is sending me parts to attempt a fix. the other I am still waiting for them to address the photos I have sent.
> I am not a real happy camper at the moment . I knew there was a risk involved here. but now I guess we will see how well they deal with problems.



How would I go about checking my Fm015 for this? I don't have it built yet.


----------



## flyjoe

you need a derailure hanger alignment gage. there are many types available and it is fairly simple to make. but go ahead and build it up and test it for function first.


----------



## Mite

hey everyone,

So i just finished building my bike with help of a friend.
We can't figure out how to adjust the Angle of the saddle on this style of seatpost.

Its a hongfu HFSP003 .. 

I took the bolt off and bracket but how the hell do i tilt this.


----------



## FTR

Mite said:


> hey everyone,
> 
> So i just finished building my bike with help of a friend.
> We can't figure out how to adjust the Angle of the saddle on this style of seatpost.
> 
> Its a hongfu HFSP003 ..
> 
> I took the bolt off and bracket but how the hell do i tilt this.


Mate
This question was answered by me, in this thread, 2 DAYS AGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad2:


----------



## flyjoe

you are going to give yourself an ulcer FTR.


----------



## FTR

flyjoe said:


> you are going to give yourself an ulcer FTR.


I cannot believe how lazy these people are.
the search function works perfectly well.
People are just too lazy to use it.


----------



## Tswifty

flyjoe said:


> you are going to give yourself an ulcer FTR.


If the bolt is out...Maybe try man handling the angle of those black circle things where the rails sit. Just maybe?


----------



## FTR

Correct answer is on page 45 (among others).


----------



## Mr.Habanero

Which frame is the Specialized Tarmac clone? I know Cycleyong makes one but I have heard nothing but bad things about that company. Are there any others?


----------



## kanekikapu

ICAN SP-AC058
Miracle Trade MT-MC058



Mr.Habanero said:


> Which frame is the Specialized Tarmac clone? I know Cycleyong makes one but I have heard nothing but bad things about that company. Are there any others?


----------



## kevosinn

So I just finished my chinarello build and all I can say is WOW! I directly compared it to my REAL dogma 2 and its rides way more similar than I would have expected! I put the same wheels on both and made sure tire pressure was the same and it suprised me to say the least. I built the bike as kind of as a joke and it turned out to be pretty damn nice haha!


----------



## Klitgaard

Hello Seneb
How did you change the colour?

and how can I deleate a post?


----------



## svard75

*LOL UCI Fail*

Light composite bikes made in China slammed by UCI execs | Bicycle Business | BikeBiz


----------



## Mr.Habanero

kanekikapu said:


> ICAN SP-AC058
> Miracle Trade MT-MC058


Thanks those are totally it! Not my size but its nice to know.


----------



## Seneb

Klitgaard said:


> Hello Seneb
> How did you change the colour?


Not sure what you're referring to...


----------



## zigmeister

flyjoe said:


> I am having problems with 2 of the 3 frames that I have purchased. more to the point, the same problem with 2 frames of different design from different vendors. The rear drop outs are not formed in plane with the rear wheel. This is causing alignment problems with the rear derailure. One bike is out of true 3cm verticly. with this being the case, everytime I go from small ring to large ring I lose my adjustment in the rear, due to the swing of the rear derailure in an out of parallel angle. I am waiting for answers from each vendor. One is sending me parts to attempt a fix. the other I am still waiting for them to address the photos I have sent.
> I am not a real happy camper at the moment . I knew there was a risk involved here. but now I guess we will see how well they deal with problems.


3cm??? Vertically? Horizontally?

I need a photo of this...I have no idea what you are describing.

If your wheel was that far off axis, it would either be rubbing against your seat stay, or your chain stay IMO.


----------



## GiantTCR

Seneb said:


> Not sure what you're referring to...


I think he is reffering to the "Vercelo" frame you did for me.


----------



## Seneb

GiantTCR said:


> I think he is reffering to the "Vercelo" frame you did for me.


Aha, that makes sense.

Klitgaard - I used Photoshop. Basically, using the Hue/Saturation settings, I set the drop down to Reds and adjusted the slider to get the blue. The words were changed by swapping the letters and a little cleanup.


----------



## kanekikapu

What size are you looking for? I was all about them about a month ago and remember their sizing is a bit different (even though the geometries are the same.) Like one company's 54 will be another's 53.



Mr.Habanero said:


> Thanks those are totally it! Not my size but its nice to know.


----------



## mrcreosote

FTR said:


> Correct answer is on page 45 (among others).


I don't have a page 45 - mine only goes up to 12. but that may be because i have set my preferences to 100 posts per page - better to reference the actual post id number


----------



## FTR

mrcreosote said:


> I don't have a page 45 - mine only goes up to 12. but that may be because i have set my preferences to 100 posts per page - better to reference the actual post id number


OK. 
Seeing as though this is apparently so difficult for others to manage.
Post 1111.


----------



## gpcyclist25

*That video???*

Has there been any further commentary on that youtube video a bunch of pages back showing that guy dremeling his chinese frame into pieces and finding a whole bunch of crap inside?

It seemed a bit suspect to me because it showed him easily deflecting the seat tube and bottom bracket with his fingers, which doesn't seem to pass the BS test. I have a FM-015, which other than some struggles getting the headset tight, has been pretty good, and moreover, rigid everywhere, so the idea that there's any part I could deflect by squeezing is kind of ridiculous.

So what, no more commentary, background on that vid?


----------



## persondude27

gpcyclist25 said:


> Has there been any further commentary on that youtube video a bunch of pages back showing that guy dremeling his chinese frame into pieces and finding a whole bunch of crap inside?
> 
> It seemed a bit suspect to me because it showed him easily deflecting the seat tube and bottom bracket with his fingers, which doesn't seem to pass the BS test. I have a FM-015, which other than some struggles getting the headset tight, has been pretty good, and moreover, rigid everywhere, so the idea that there's any part I could deflect by squeezing is kind of ridiculous.
> 
> So what, no more commentary, background on that vid?


Clearly, it was put out by a major bike company who is trying to damage the reputation of sketchy bike resellers everywhere... clearly, they're just trying to pad their pockets and force us back into the mold of buying crappy branded frames!

I don't speak whatever language that is, but honestly, who are you going to trust - 500 people with no vested interest in the company saying they're ok, or one guy you don't understand who posted a video to youtube?


----------



## 3Kcarbon

*Concrete personal experience.*

Hi everyone,
I have bought a couple of FM028 frames and built them into good bikes. The frames seem as good as anything one can get with a fancy label on it. After gaining trust for the manufacturer I also have bought a number of the newer FM098 Aero frames from them, and am very pleased with the quality and workmanship.


----------



## mrcreosote

FTR said:


> OK.
> Seeing as though this is apparently so difficult for others to manage.
> Post 1111.


just pointing out that while it is on page 45 for *you*, it is not necessarily page 45 for everyone else, so saying 'it is on page 45' is next to useless.

that said - I agree people should RTFB first before they go asking questions, and I understand your frustration.


----------



## FTR

I had also pointed out severl posts earlier that I had answered the question only 2 days earlier.
I was intentially NOT telling people exactly where the answer is.
Seriously I came across the same problem with my seatpost and managed to get it working despite having absolutely no previous experience with the seatpost design.
I had a quick look at it; quickly worked out that those black pieces could be popped out; applied some grease and re-assembled it.
Seems that people are too lazy to use their own brains or the search function and find it easier to come here and ask the same dumb question over and over again.


----------



## Bridgey

Finally got my Chinarello Frame. Took about 45 to 50 days due to my special requirements (BB30, decal changes). I opted for the Pinarello Azzurro paint scheme. The box was a bit damaged, but in good condition. Once sent it only took about 4 or 5 days to get. Opening it up the frame was well protected. It was all eye candy to me upon opening. The handlebars (FSA K-Force Wing carbon) looked sweet. The paint job on the frame/fork was top notch and I was very happy with the customised decals. The only thing I didn't like was the "SKY" wording on the seatpost, but this is minor. 

To build it, I used some parts off my existing bike and bought a few new parts. I have experience building bikes from scratch. Overall I was happy with the quality. There were a few minor issues to overcome. The fork crown was very tight. Took a lot of beating of my PVC pipe to get it down. I think the fork had a nice gloss coating on the steering tube which made it that little bit to tight. I got to within a mm of the bottom, so am okay with this. Also I had to screw up the bolt on the headset fairly tight to get rid of any play. The internal cabling went fine and all seems to be working well. Couldn't thread the front derailleur cable through the upper part of bottom bracket due to paint being stuck over it. So had to pierce that first. 

I'm not 100% sure the rear drop outs are perfectly in line. The NDS seems to be slightly deeper, which caused the wheel not to sit perfectly straight. Need to look more into this and create a fix if need be. Regardless, it is fairly close. I'm just a perfectionist. Likewise I have to pull the front forks slightly apart for the front wheel to put in or drop out. No big deal unless I'm in a hurry to change wheels. 

I noticed many of the bolts including the front and rear derailleur hangers weren't done up tight. So re did all these. The paint job doesn't have a protective gloss coat over it. I accidently knocked my hacksaw on it while cutting the forks and put a tiny scratch through a couple of coats of paint. Will give a ride report soon.

Can't decide whether to take yellow stickers off wheels, leave as is or colour black. What do you guys think? 

Build
Frame: Chinarello aero 2012 (Black/Blue/Black) 56cm
Wheels: Yishun Carbon 50mm (Corima Aero Stickers)
Levers: 2010 SRAM Red.
Brakes: 2010 SRAM Force
Front and Rear Derailleurs: 2012 SRAM Rival. (Could have put 2010 SRAM Force on, but though a new Rival would out do a used 2010 Force). 
Crankset: FSA SL-K Light compact. 52/36 with Look Keo Pedals
Chain: KMC
Cassette: SRAM 1070 11-25T
Handlebars: FSA K-Force Winged knockoffs (from same company I got frame from).
Stem: Deda Newton 31 (110mm). 
Tyres: Conti GP4000's
Cages: Elite. Sky colours.
Saddle: San Marco Regale Racing (Katusha Colours)

Overall Weight: approx 7.4kg's. (16.25lbs).
Rider height (178cm (5ft 10")).


----------



## Klitgaard

Seneb said:


> Not sure what you're referring to...


I am refering to your post #1103 with the frame where you change the colour from red to blue.


----------



## Teo

Bridgey said:


> Finally got my Chinarello Frame. Took about 45 to 50 days due to my special requirements (BB30, decal changes). I opted for the Pinarello Azzurro paint scheme. The box was a bit damaged, but in good condition. Once sent it only took about 4 or 5 days to get. Opening it up the frame was well protected. It was all eye candy to me upon opening. The handlebars (FSA K-Force Wing carbon) looked sweet. The paint job on the frame/fork was top notch and I was very happy with the customised decals. The only thing I didn't like was the "SKY" wording on the seatpost, but this is minor.
> 
> To build it, I used some parts off my existing bike and bought a few new parts. I have experience building bikes from scratch. Overall I was happy with the quality. There were a few minor issues to overcome. The fork crown was very tight. Took a lot of beating of my PVC pipe to get it down. I think the fork had a nice gloss coating on the steering tube which made it that little bit to tight. I got to within a mm of the bottom, so am okay with this. Also I had to screw up the bolt on the headset fairly tight to get rid of any play. The internal cabling went fine and all seems to be working well. Couldn't thread the front derailleur cable through the upper part of bottom bracket due to paint being stuck over it. So had to pierce that first.
> 
> I'm not 100% sure the rear drop outs are perfectly in line. The NDS seems to be slightly deeper, which caused the wheel not to sit perfectly straight. Need to look more into this and create a fix if need be. Regardless, it is fairly close. I'm just a perfectionist. Likewise I have to pull the front forks slightly apart for the front wheel to put in or drop out. No big deal unless I'm in a hurry to change wheels.
> 
> I noticed many of the bolts including the front and rear derailleur hangers weren't done up tight. So re did all these. The paint job doesn't have a protective gloss coat over it. I accidently knocked my hacksaw on it while cutting the forks and put a tiny scratch through a couple of coats of paint. Will give a ride report soon.
> 
> Can't decide whether to take yellow stickers off wheels, leave as is or colour black. What do you guys think?
> 
> Build
> Frame: Chinarello aero 2012 (Black/Blue/Black) 56cm
> Wheels: Yishun Carbon 50mm (Corima Aero Stickers)
> Levers: 2010 SRAM Red.
> Brakes: 2010 SRAM Force
> Front and Rear Derailleurs: 2012 SRAM Rival. (Could have put 2010 SRAM Force on, but though a new Rival would out do a used 2010 Force).
> Crankset: FSA SL-K Light compact. 52/36 with Look Keo Pedals
> Chain: KMC
> Cassette: SRAM 1070 11-25T
> Handlebars: FSA K-Force Winged knockoffs (from same company I got frame from).
> Stem: Deda Newton 31 (110mm).
> Tyres: Conti GP4000's
> Cages: Elite. Sky colours.
> Saddle: San Marco Regale Racing (Katusha Colours)
> 
> Overall Weight: approx 7.4kg's. (16.25lbs).
> Rider height (178cm (5ft 10")).


That paint scheme looks real nice. I hope mine looks that good. I bought from same company but different colors. If I were you I would take the yellow stickers off the wheels, just doesn't seem look right.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

FTR said:


> I had also pointed out severl posts earlier that I had answered the question only 2 days earlier.
> I was intentially NOT telling people exactly where the answer is.
> Seriously I came across the same problem with my seatpost and managed to get it working despite having absolutely no previous experience with the seatpost design.
> I had a quick look at it; quickly worked out that those black pieces could be popped out; applied some grease and re-assembled it.
> Seems that people are too lazy to use their own brains or the search function and find it easier to come here and ask the same dumb question over and over again.


Just ignore those questions from now on ... it is not good for your blood pressure as you age to get worked up over these issues ... there are more important issues in life ... let other forum users take care of 'THOSE' questions ... 

... it is easier to ask questions for anything you do not know, rather than spending the time to search for it ... this may also be a question of the individual and how he/she is brought up ... in the 'west', it is more common to ask questions for anything you do not know ... in the 'east' the opposite is true ... ie you spend sometime looking for answers yourself without 'troubling' others, and when you are stuck, only after you have tried your most 'hardest' to look for the solution, then do you, trouble some peaceful soul ... :wink:


----------



## FTR

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Just ignore those questions from now on ... it is not good for your blood pressure as you age to get worked up over these issues ... there are more important issues in life ... let other forum users take care of 'THOSE' questions ...
> 
> ... it is easier to ask questions for anything you do not know, rather than spending the time to search for it ... this may also be a question of the individual and how he/she is brought up ... in the 'west', it is more common to ask questions for anything you do not know ... in the 'east' the opposite is true ... ie you spend sometime looking for answers yourself without 'troubling' others, and when you are stuck, only after you have tried your most 'hardest' to look for the solution, then do you, trouble some peaceful soul ... :wink:


Ahh no, unless easier and lazier are now interchangeable.
Dont cater to lazy people.
It does nothing to stop them being lazy.


----------



## Seneb

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> ... in the 'west', it is more common to ask questions for anything you do not know...


I live in California, the Wild West, and I search out answers before asking. Just sayin'...


----------



## Seneb

Klitgaard said:


> I am refering to your post #1103 with the frame where you change the colour from red to blue.


Gotcha - Post 1156


----------



## 3Kcarbon

FTR said:


> Ahh no, unless easier and lazier are now interchangeable.
> Dont cater to lazy people.
> It does nothing to stop them being lazy.


I agree with you about "easy" and "lazy".
Let me offer the following though.
I have always thought that offering help is a voluntary thing, at least outside of military service (where one may occasionally find oneself to "be volunteered"!).
We don't know just how much the person has tried to solve the problem on his/her own before asking for help. If you don't feel like offering help, for one reason or another, just don't.

On the other hand, if the OP has not tried before asking, there is little point in ranting about lazy people, because they are used to it and have learned long ago to ignore it. They are the same types who simply hang up after dialing a wrong number, because they are too lazy to apologize and know that we can't see them anyway.
All it does is giving us an upset stomach.


----------



## 3Kcarbon

GA1911 said:


> I'm putting together my Hong Fu FM015, and everything is going together easily. However, when I installed the SP003 seatpost, the nose of the saddle is pointed up and it does not appear there is any tilt adjustment. I find it hard to believe this is the case, so if anyone has one of these setposts, and I have seen a few in images, please let me know how to make this adjustment. I figured when I loosed the clamp bolts this would allow the mount to tilt, but no such luck.
> 
> Thanks...


Be careful not to tighten the seat before you set the angle. Sometimes it sets the tilt guides too hard and you may have trouble loosening or removing them for treatment.


----------



## ptsbike55

I see Alfred is back.


----------



## cardinalfire

nice frame


----------



## 3Kcarbon

mjdwyer23 said:


> I ran GORE Ride-On housing through all of the internal routing and all the way to the FD on my FM098:


That looks like a good idea. I had been wondering about the lining inside the cable channels, and would feel better with Gore housing too.
Did you not have problems getting past the housing stops inside the channels?


----------



## Crawf

ptsbike55 said:


> I see Alfred is back.


I thought that name rang a bell too!


----------



## Bridgey

I used waterproof housing internally and waterproof ferriles on my bike to both seal the internal cabling, stop vibrating and keep the cables clean. I used it all the way to the bottom bracket plastic thing. I couldn't get it all the way back through the internal section despite the cable being in there and trying to push it in in reverse. I have it far enough in though to seal it and have the waterproof ferries in the front part of the frame. So Pretty much job done. Just hope I don't need to replace cables anytime soon. Could be difficult. .


----------



## 3Kcarbon

But how do you get the housing past the internal housing stops?


----------



## lxpatterson

Does miracle bike or Hong Fu sell OEM-priced groupsets like they were doing last year? What are the prices like for SRAM Red?


----------



## vettracer

gpcyclist25 said:


> Has there been any further commentary on that youtube video a bunch of pages back showing that guy dremeling his chinese frame into pieces and finding a whole bunch of crap inside?
> 
> It seemed a bit suspect to me because it showed him easily deflecting the seat tube and bottom bracket with his fingers, which doesn't seem to pass the BS test. I have a FM-015, which other than some struggles getting the headset tight, has been pretty good, and moreover, rigid everywhere, so the idea that there's any part I could deflect by squeezing is kind of ridiculous.
> 
> So what, no more commentary, background on that vid?



To start, the squishy area above the bottom bracket is clearly impact damage. My guess is that the rear wheel picked up somthing and whipped it around into the bottom of the seatpost. That is what the carbon would be like if you hit it hard with a hammer or someting.

Since the frame was already damaged, the owner probably decided to cut it up hence the video. I would probably do the same thing since it is not worth repairing a cheapo carbon frame.

The rest of the frame looks pretty good actually, the plastic that is pulled out is just the bladders which are inflated during manufacturer to compress the carbon during cure. Perfectly normal. The inside of the seat tube is fairly well laid up only a couple of wrinkles, again perfectly normal.

Not sure why there was a piece cardboard in the top of the seat tube, but clearly this would be pulled out to install the seatpost.

Cheers


----------



## mrbubbles

Cinelli WYSIWYG looks to be a complete ripoff of Winspace W-01


----------



## foofighter

maxxevv said:


> They have taken many design cues from the R5, but if you compare them side by side, think the internal cabling on this one is neater and makes for a pretty cool package. Personally, I think think this is closer in some design details to the R3 mixed with some from the R5, and their own design input which is the internal cabling. ( Which I think is neater, though installation and maintenance may be a pain to deal with...)
> 
> But honestly, I wasn't even considering it because of the similarities with the R5/3, but more of the weight and ultimately, its whether the geometry is right.
> 
> So far, the WS02 geometry would be about perfect for me, the FM028/29 is a close second. .
> 
> I've generally found Hongfu geometry to be off for me. Would have to look at the geometry charts first.





GiantTCR said:


> I will, I just emailed greatkeen to see what they say.


GiantTCR - any update on your end? did you decide to pull the trigger on this baby?


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

The new frame from Hongfu FM066 looks really good ... wish they issue another without the internal cabling ... oh well ... you cannot satisfy everyone can you ... :wink: ... at least there is still the FM015 just with the internal cabling in the top tube ...


----------



## gpcyclist25

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> The new frame from Hongfu FM066 looks really good ... wish they issue another without the internal cabling ... oh well ... you cannot satisfy everyone can you ... :wink: ... at least there is still the FM015 just with the internal cabling in the top tube ...


I find the FM066 intriguing for a bunch of reasons:

It's obviously a good-looking frame. To me, the whole presentation suggests a level of engineering expertise that a lot of people aren't willing to grant these "knock-off shops." That said, I'm curious how this plays out in IP terms, given that Canyon and Cervelo went through a lot of legal proceedings regarding just this tube shape.

I'm curious as to how complex or proprietary layup schedules really are, seeing as how that seems to be the special sauce here. The other interesting thing here is that they're offering light and ultra-light frames, and one might gather that to build a robust light frame that performs reasonably well requires decent engineering capability. But really, how difficult is it to create a layup schedule that reasonably optimizes lateral stiffness and vertical compliance?

In other words, I suspect this frame is sort of make or break for Hongfu (or depending on who you ask, whoever actually makes them) - if they can pull this off, make a high-quality lightweight frame that doesn't explode, this could be a serious game-changer.

Yes, I'm intrigued.


----------



## GiantTCR

foofighter said:


> GiantTCR - any update on your end? did you decide to pull the trigger on this baby?


Still debating on this one or the mt-mc055. The mock up of the bike is on page 45 that Seneb did for me.


----------



## ms6073

mrbubbles said:


> Cinelli WYSIWYG looks to be a complete ripoff of Winspace W-01


More likley that Cinelli sourced the frame from the same manufacturer as Winspace.


----------



## zigmeister

So I guess two of our posts got deleted because some pricing and a vendor was mentioned on here regarding the FM066?

Nice forum you have here.


----------



## mmatrix

*fun police*

I quite enjoyed reading and viewing all the major brand copies on this site. Since they have been taken down the fun factor of viewing the rip offs has demised,and don't come back here as often anymore .


----------



## mjdwyer23

mmatrix said:


> I quite enjoyed reading and viewing all the major brand copies on this site. Since they have been taken down the fun factor of viewing the rip offs has demised,and don't come back here as often anymore .


Unfortunately, the legal implications of facilitating counterfeiting probably outweigh peoples' desire to look at pretty pictures.


----------



## Coolhand

*moderators note*

As mentioned multiple times, either counterfeits or group buy stuff will get your posts deleted (at best).


----------



## jordo_99

pyattbl said:


> This may already be answered... I'm catching up on some older posts... but Mina's email changed. I used this one late last year for an FM098 frame order: [email protected]


I noticed that you built up a FM098 for your brother-in-law a few months ago...any update on how it rides/etc? I'm building up something VERY similar and just bought my own...just hoping to get a little insight as to what I have to look forward to XD...I would also like to hear your impressions on the stem and handlebars? Did you get them separate or integrated in one piece?


----------



## timsen

Got new FFWD wheels in it. Decals from Marco are being shipped last week. 
Within a few weeks the bike will have a brand new look.


----------



## thanksbye

This may be the wrong place for this, if so I apologise in advance.

Im looking at a FM039 ISP, but was wondering if at a later date I needed to adjust the saddle, or came to sell it, Is it possible to cut down the mast, and fit a Aero Post and Clamp?

Jon


----------



## pyattbl

jordo_99 said:


> I noticed that you built up a FM098 for your brother-in-law a few months ago...any update on how it rides/etc? I'm building up something VERY similar and just bought my own...just hoping to get a little insight as to what I have to look forward to XD...I would also like to hear your impressions on the stem and handlebars? Did you get them separate or integrated in one piece?


Jordo_99 - My b-i-l has put several hundred miles on the FM098 and is still in love with the machine. I have been able to ride it only twice (he keeps it with him always ): Once on flats, once on a mountain route around Asheville, NC. 

On the flatter route I first took, the bike accelerates wonderfully and I can't detect any lateral flex in the frame at all (I weigh about 190, am no power-delivery hulk, but do OK). The bike does get moved around a bit by crosswinds as the tubes offer larger side area compared to the FM028 and Tarmac frames I own (Similar wheels on this bike as those I ride, so I'm guessing the frame does contribute to the movement in wind). And the frame seems comfortable to me over bumps and road surface imperfections... it is stiffer vertically than my own bikes though, but not excessive. 

This bike is set up with the same gearing I use on my own bikes, so climbing is really fun! As I told my wife, it climbs like a goat on slopes from 5% to 11% we find on our go-to route here. Straightline descents up to 43-44 MPH are comfortable and stable. It handles a little "sporty" around curves, but I wouldn't classify it as twitchy at all. 

Re: stem/bars, we went with separate components. All were ordered from DengFu. The full-carbon stem they sent works great. It's very large in diameter (compared to composite or AL stems I've used on my bikes), but it actually looks great with the large-tubed frame. There have been no problems with handlebar slipping or front-end play at all - so functionally all is good there. 

Re: Bars, this is the fourth set of DengFu supplied bars I've used, and again I have no complaints. Just use a torque wrench, and keep the forces inside specifications. If you are interested, I can provide the values I used... but it's the middle of the night here on in the Eastern US, and I can't recall them.

I hope that helps. Best of luck with the build up, and if there is anything else I can offer, just ask.


----------



## jordo_99

kevosinn said:


> So I just finished my chinarello build and all I can say is WOW! I directly compared it to my REAL dogma 2 and its rides way more similar than I would have expected! I put the same wheels on both and made sure tire pressure was the same and it suprised me to say the least. I built the bike as kind of as a joke and it turned out to be pretty damn nice haha!


I'm already invested in a different frameset (FM098) but was very close to getting one of these. I've never ridden a high-end frame so I won't know what I'm missing unless I go out and ride one but riding a near replica would say a lot about the quality of the frames. Any chance you can go into detail on how the two stack up against each other when you have a weekend without much to do.


----------



## jordo_99

pyattbl said:


> Jordo_99 - My b-i-l has put several hundred miles on the FM098 and is still in love with the machine. I have been able to ride it only twice (he keeps it with him always ): Once on flats, once on a mountain route around Asheville, NC.
> 
> On the flatter route I first took, the bike accelerates wonderfully and I can't detect any lateral flex in the frame at all (I weigh about 190, am no power-delivery hulk, but do OK). The bike does get moved around a bit by crosswinds as the tubes offer larger side area compared to the FM028 and Tarmac frames I own (Similar wheels on this bike as those I ride, so I'm guessing the frame does contribute to the movement in wind). And the frame seems comfortable to me over bumps and road surface imperfections... it is stiffer vertically than my own bikes though, but not excessive.
> 
> This bike is set up with the same gearing I use on my own bikes, so climbing is really fun! As I told my wife, it climbs like a goat on slopes from 5% to 11% we find on our go-to route here. Straightline descents up to 43-44 MPH are comfortable and stable. It handles a little "sporty" around curves, but I wouldn't classify it as twitchy at all.
> 
> Re: stem/bars, we went with separate components. All were ordered from DengFu. The full-carbon stem they sent works great. It's very large in diameter (compared to composite or AL stems I've used on my bikes), but it actually looks great with the large-tubed frame. There have been no problems with handlebar slipping or front-end play at all - so functionally all is good there.
> 
> Re: Bars, this is the fourth set of DengFu supplied bars I've used, and again I have no complaints. Just use a torque wrench, and keep the forces inside specifications. If you are interested, I can provide the values I used... but it's the middle of the night here on in the Eastern US, and I can't recall them.
> 
> I hope that helps. Best of luck with the build up, and if there is anything else I can offer, just ask.


Thanks for all the info. I'm getting the full-carbon stem and bars (separate) as well. That was my biggest concern so hearing your testament to their quality really puts me at ease.

I wouldn't mind the information on torque requirements but I'd imagine they're similar to other carbon products or will be listed with it. I also won't have the shipment for about 30 days.


----------



## bosango

*List of cloned frames?*

Greetings!

I've been enjoying the overwhelming amount of information in this forum. Is there a list somewhere of which name-brand frames have been cloned (e.g. MC053 = Scott Foil)? Excuse me if this has been posted already, but I haven't been able to find any such information. Cheers!


----------



## Mr.Habanero

kanekikapu said:


> What size are you looking for? I was all about them about a month ago and remember their sizing is a bit different (even though the geometries are the same.) Like one company's 54 will be another's 53.


Size 56 just in case my fm098 doesnt work out.


----------



## 3Kcarbon

I have found that the sizes at DengFu run smaller than expected in actual measurements.
The size 54 actually measures 51.4cm seat tube, and horizontal reach of 54.6cm.
The size 52 measures 49.5cm seat tube, and 53.3cm horizontal reach.
However, due to the shape of the top tube it pretty much works out to the same thing, and the 54s can still be considered medium, and the 52s small. As a matter of fact, I found even the smaller frame can adequately be working as a medium, with minor seat post adjustment, and the horizontal reach of 53.3cm.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

bosango said:


> ... Is there a list somewhere of which name-brand frames have been cloned (e.g. MC053 = Scott Foil)? ...


Cloned!!! ... No!!! NEVER!!! ... these chinese companies spend millions in research and trials (billions in their population) to come up with designs for their frames based on specific required characteristics ... and it is the companies from us here and across the pond who just take the cue and get Lance (has he retired now?) to go into a wind tunnel to improve on them and put brand labels on them ... 

_Not sure if that would be allowed to be published here ... for obvious reasons ..._


----------



## Tswifty

So i was reading that some people like the FM066 is it the new Hongfu? There is lots of information on the other forum about it. Including Geometry for all frame sizes.


----------



## deangene

*FM039 headset*



timsen said:


> Got new FFWD wheels in it. Decals from Marco are being shipped last week.
> Within a few weeks the bike will have a brand new look.


Nice. I'm just about to pull the trigger on one of these.

What's the included headset like? Is it worth putting the initial $15 cost toward something slightly nicer, for example something like an FSA Orbit CF-40? Does the FM039 take 45/45 bearings?


----------



## Vee

3Kcarbon said:


> I have found that the sizes at DengFu run smaller than expected in actual measurements.
> The size 54 actually measures 51.4cm seat tube, and horizontal reach of 54.6cm.
> The size 52 measures 49.5cm seat tube, and 53.3cm horizontal reach.
> However, due to the shape of the top tube it pretty much works out to the same thing, and the 54s can still be considered medium, and the 52s small. As a matter of fact, I found even the smaller frame can adequately be working as a medium, with minor seat post adjustment, and the horizontal reach of 53.3cm.


Most companies make up their own sizing. Geometry charts are always the only way to compare between companies and know the truth about sizing.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

Vee said:


> Most companies make up their own sizing. Geometry charts are always the only way to compare between companies and know the truth about sizing.


+1 ... I go with the geometry rather than a 'size'


----------



## tron

Does anyone have have some detailed instructions for the headsets? I can make out the bearings and race but there are metal spacers I have no idea where they go.


----------



## jordo_99

3Kcarbon said:


> I have found that the sizes at DengFu run smaller than expected in actual measurements.
> The size 54 actually measures 51.4cm seat tube, and horizontal reach of 54.6cm.
> The size 52 measures 49.5cm seat tube, and 53.3cm horizontal reach.
> However, due to the shape of the top tube it pretty much works out to the same thing, and the 54s can still be considered medium, and the 52s small. As a matter of fact, I found even the smaller frame can adequately be working as a medium, with minor seat post adjustment, and the horizontal reach of 53.3cm.


The difference is probably that DengFu has compact geometry in the frames you're referencing and thus change the sizing to reflect top tube so that buyers can get the correct size frame...That said, I really like DengFu's sizing system. It seems to help comsumers avoid making the same mistake I did:

I bought a framset off ebay last summer and asked for the size...I was told it was a 54cm so I bought it....My frame had a 54cm (c-c) seat tube but was really a size 57 because it used a compact geometry. Guess I learned the hard way not to trust "bike shop experts" on ebay but I can still get the frame to fit decently with a 90mm stem...it's just not something I want to do so I'm getting a FM098 now.



Vee said:


> Most companies make up their own sizing. Geometry charts are always the only way to compare between companies and know the truth about sizing.


^ This absolutely.


----------



## Seneb

tron said:


> Does anyone have have some detailed instructions for the headsets? I can make out the bearings and race but there are metal spacers I have no idea where they go.


Somebody correct me if I am wrong. The headset that came with my FR-303 had two chrome metal spacers that are really thin. I used one of them on top of the split ring so that the bearing cover didn't rub the top of the headtube when everything was snug. The other one is sitting in my tool box.


----------



## csneom4a1

Seneb said:


> Somebody correct me if I am wrong. The headset that came with my FR-303 had two chrome metal spacers that are really thin. I used one of them on top of the split ring so that the bearing cover didn't rub the top of the headtube when everything was snug. The other one is sitting in my tool box.


Sounds correct. I didn't use either spacer on my FM015 because the bearing cover already had a gap after being tightened.


----------



## MV87

Seneb said:


> Somebody correct me if I am wrong. The headset that came with my FR-303 had two chrome metal spacers that are really thin. I used one of them on top of the split ring so that the bearing cover didn't rub the top of the headtube when everything was snug. The other one is sitting in my tool box.


Same here, only used one metal spacer on my fr303.


----------



## zigmeister

Seneb said:


> Somebody correct me if I am wrong. The headset that came with my FR-303 had two chrome metal spacers that are really thin. I used one of them on top of the split ring so that the bearing cover didn't rub the top of the headtube when everything was snug. The other one is sitting in my tool box.


Yes, thin metal spacer is just to go right under the top cap in so that won't rub the top of the carbon fiber.

Maybe you need one, two, or none to provide clearance.


----------



## MaLóL

are we allowed to talk about fm066 here? it's a nice new framefrom hongfu. please let me know. thanks.


----------



## zigmeister

MaLóL said:


> are we allowed to talk about fm066 here? it's a nice new framefrom hongfu. please let me know. thanks.


Did you take the time to even look through the last 5-10 posts on here?


----------



## timsen

deangene said:


> Nice. I'm just about to pull the trigger on one of these.
> 
> What's the included headset like? Is it worth putting the initial $15 cost toward something slightly nicer, for example something like an FSA Orbit CF-40? Does the FM039 take 45/45 bearings?


They headset works fine for me. 
Don't feel any difference with the headset from my original Pinarello.


----------



## Crappymonkey

rocosista said:


> Finally finished.


Very nice. I like the paint design. It kind of reminds me of Tron :thumbsup:


----------



## zigmeister

Most of these clones try to keep the geometry nearly the same to the original. Like the FM098, compared it to the Venge 54cm. Nearly identical...no reason to change the geometry/handling when someone else did all the work.


----------



## Urb

rocosista said:


> Finally finished.


Is it me or does something seem off about those "zipps"?


----------



## mjdwyer23

They are Chinese with stickers.


----------



## zigmeister

Urb said:


> Is it me or does something seem off about those "zipps"?



Those arent Zipps. Zipps didnt have black hubs/spokes until this year with the beyond black. Decals are beyond black too, and they would be firecrest.

Looks like some chines wheel with sticker.


----------



## Bridgey

zigmeister said:


> Those arent Zipps. Zipps didnt have black hubs/spokes until this year with the beyond black. Decals are beyond black too, and they would be firecrest.
> 
> Looks like some chines wheel with sticker.


Who cares though. At about a sixth of the price, they ride almost as good as Zipps. The bike looks fast. Probably get more attention than a real Venge. Well done. Nice build.

Took my Chinarello Mad-Dog out today on the club ride. Very positive responses. They loved the decals and overall look. They were calling others over to look at it. People couldn't believe, how I got all that for the the amount I paid. Given that it runs in line with my club colours, others wanted the details. Rode like a dream. Performed well in the hill sprints and got up to 66km'h in a slightly downhill sprint. Felt totally safe, smooth and in control. Never ridden a bike that smooths out the bumps as well as this did. Of course I have to also thank my 50mm Yishun Carbons for that too. No regrets whatsoever. Best buy for my money I've ever made. Parked it beside my bed last night and got my wife to say goodnight to it  

Based on prior reports re: the front derailleur being flexi, no problems. Just make sure you tighten all screws when you get it, including the rear derailleur hanger. They leave them loose. 

The only problem at the moment is I need to fiddle with the rear gears a little more. I'm using old 2010 SRAM red levers with a new SRAM rival rear derailleur. May not be a perfect setup. Very minor problem though. Also the handling is more responsive, which is good, just got to get use to it. Like going from manual to power steering.


----------



## mmatrix

*awesomeness !!!!!*



rocosista said:


> Finally finished.


gr8 job:23:


----------



## zigmeister

Bridgey said:


> Who cares though. At about a sixth of the price, they ride almost as good as Zipps. The bike looks fast. Probably get more attention than a real Venge. Well done. Nice build.


Here we go with this debate again.

You do what you want. It is your choice obviously.

I'm not only in the FM098 latest group buy, but I also have a MC053 bike (Foil open mold), but I don't slap stickers of it as being a Scott bike. When asked, I tell people that it is a Chinese open mold frame that looks like a Scott Foil.

I own a set of Zipp FC 303 tubulars. Those are the real deal. Posing as something it is not isn't cool in many peoples opinions, in fact, not sure why your post wasn't deleted since there are not supposed to be any fakes posted on this forum.


----------



## Coolhand

The fakes are gone.


----------



## plh1964

Coolhand said:


> The fakes are gone.



So on with the open molds


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

Has anyone used a seat post smaller than that required for the frame.

eg: above ... frame seatpost is 31.6mm.
I can use a 27.2mm seatpost together with some 27.2 to 31.6mm shim.
Don't think there will any problems will there? Just would like to hear from some users who have done so only because they decided to use their old seatpost for their new frame ...


----------



## blend76

flyjoe said:


> I am having problems with 2 of the 3 frames that I have purchased. more to the point, the same problem with 2 frames of different design from different vendors. The rear drop outs are not formed in plane with the rear wheel. This is causing alignment problems with the rear derailure. One bike is out of true 3cm verticly. with this being the case, everytime I go from small ring to large ring I lose my adjustment in the rear, due to the swing of the rear derailure in an out of parallel angle. I am waiting for answers from each vendor. One is sending me parts to attempt a fix. the other I am still waiting for them to address the photos I have sent.
> I am not a real happy camper at the moment . I knew there was a risk involved here. but now I guess we will see how well they deal with problems.


Hmmm,
I have been having issues with derailleur hangers bending after few hundred kilometers/miles. I have had to replace four already because they just will not stay true. I wonder if there is similar mechanics at play. Let us know how this works out and if you have ideas on how to fix it.


----------



## Vee

Alright, so here is an interesting story. Last Saturday I was involved in a crash on my Fm015. Crash was during the last 300 meters or so of a road race at the front of the pack during preparations for a bunch sprint. My Garmin logs show I was doing 31.5 mph the second before I touched the concrete with my head.  

I got banged up pretty good, but broke no bones thankfully. My right side is filled with road rash and my neck hurt worse and worse until I ended up at the ER for Xrays and muscle relaxers. A week later I am fully healed with the exception of scabbed road rash.

The bike took it like a champ, too. I was really worried after my crash. I didn't even want to look at the bike. I had pretty much expected these frames to be disposable. I figured should I ever crash one, I would be replacing it. Directly after the crash I went to try to get back on the bike, but the bars were twisted a bit. I wasn't sure if the the steerer had snapped or what, but when I tried forcing the bars back straight to finish the race, I instantly knew the steerer was still plenty strong and intact. I inspected it when I got home and it was fine. The force had just caused the stem to twist from its position on the steerer. After a few days rest I pulled the bike apart and here is the verdict.

- Right and Left shifters had scratches in the carbon and plastic.
- Right hood had a few gouges, and may eventually need to be replaced.
- Right bar tape has a chunk out of it, and will eventually need to be replaced.
- Rear derailleur took an impact and was scraped up some. 
- Frame down tube had a chip about 6x8mm large. It was not completely through the carbon, but it was chipped down through the paint and into the carbon weave.
- Front wheel was out of true.
- Saddle had a small gash out of it.

That was it! I fixed every last bit of it. I ended up swapping the rear derailleur hanger with a brand new spare I had received with the frame. I sanded down all of the gouges and scratches in the various parts and refinished all of the pieces. I had the front wheel trued. 

The bike is back together and is as good as new. I rode it today and it is like nothing happened. So much for these frames exploding from just riding them... 

For those of you unfamiliar with my FM015, you can check a gallery of it out here: https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/114829676485387766098/albums/5701657329767968929


----------



## turbogrover

Good write up, Vee.
I developed an annoyingly loud creak on my fm028, and my friends kept telling me its cracked. I simply pulled out the bottom bracket, cleaned, and reassembled, and its perfectly quiet now. This is still the nicest bike I've ever ridden, and I've ridden plenty.


----------



## Vee

turbogrover said:


> Good write up, Vee.
> I developed an annoyingly loud creak on my fm028, and my friends kept telling me its cracked. I simply pulled out the bottom bracket, cleaned, and reassembled, and its perfectly quiet now. This is still the nicest bike I've ever ridden, and I've ridden plenty.


Thanks. Is yours BB30 or threaded? My BB30 doesn't creak, per say, but it does have a tick that occurs only when putting out 350+ watts to the cranks uphill. I pulled and reset the BB30 bearings back using Loctite 640 (green) and it diminished some, but it is still around a little bit. I considered also adding some Loctite where the crank spindle and bearings interface, too, as I left that out last time and opted for grease there. If it really begins to bother me, that is what I will do. And that should fix my issue.


----------



## turbogrover

Vee said:


> Thanks. Is yours BB30 or threaded? My BB30 doesn't creak, per say, but it does have a tick that occurs only when putting out 350+ watts to the cranks uphill. I pulled and reset the BB30 bearings back using Loctite 640 (green) and it diminished some, but it is still around a little bit. I considered also adding some Loctite where the crank spindle and bearings interface, too, as I left that out last time and opted for grease there. If it really begins to bother me, that is what I will do. And that should fix my issue.


I have an english threaded bb. The single most common creak is the interface of dissimilar metals, ie, aluminum to steel.


----------



## Sailor

Great Story Vee! I was wary about these frames for a while, now I may even consider purchasing one!


----------



## Bridgey

Vee said:


> Thanks. Is yours BB30 or threaded? My BB30 doesn't creak, per say, but it does have a tick that occurs only when putting out 350+ watts to the cranks uphill. I pulled and reset the BB30 bearings back using Loctite 640 (green) and it diminished some, but it is still around a little bit. I considered also adding some Loctite where the crank spindle and bearings interface, too, as I left that out last time and opted for grease there. If it really begins to bother me, that is what I will do. And that should fix my issue.


I had an awful creak in my BB30 Bottom Bracket. The cause, would you believe the washers that are inserted into the Bottom Bracket to stop the bearings going all the way through! I turned the washer so the that the ends were facing upwards vs downwards or to the side. The creak has now gone.


----------



## Bridgey

Vee said:


> Alright, so here is an interesting story. Last Saturday I was involved in a crash on my Fm015. Crash was during the last 300 meters or so of a road race at the front of the pack during preparations for a bunch sprint. My Garmin logs show I was doing 31.5 mph the second before I touched the concrete with my head.
> 
> I got banged up pretty good, but broke no bones thankfully. My right side is filled with road rash and my neck hurt worse and worse until I ended up at the ER for Xrays and muscle relaxers. A week later I am fully healed with the exception of scabbed road rash.
> QUOTE]
> 
> I don't know where you live Vee, but that sounds like a C grade crash we had here in Brisbane?? I wasn't there but was told it happened right at the front. Only about 10 or so got through.


----------



## maxxevv

Vee said:


> Thanks. Is yours BB30 or threaded? My BB30 doesn't creak, per say, but it does have a tick that occurs only when putting out 350+ watts to the cranks uphill. I pulled and reset the BB30 bearings back using Loctite 640 (green) and it diminished some, but it is still around a little bit. I considered also adding some Loctite where the crank spindle and bearings interface, too, as I left that out last time and opted for grease there. If it really begins to bother me, that is what I will do. And that should fix my issue.


If it 'ticks' its usually a bearing issue. Either at the BB or the pedal. Do check for smoothness bearings if it persists. 

On the rare occasion, it happens when the chainring bolts where they interface with the crank arms have some oxidation and the sound is from the oxidised area rubbing under load. 

Hope it helps. :thumbsup:


----------



## Vee

Bridgey said:


> Vee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Alright, so here is an interesting story. Last Saturday I was involved in a crash on my Fm015. Crash was during the last 300 meters or so of a road race at the front of the pack during preparations for a bunch sprint. My Garmin logs show I was doing 31.5 mph the second before I touched the concrete with my head.
> 
> I got banged up pretty good, but broke no bones thankfully. My right side is filled with road rash and my neck hurt worse and worse until I ended up at the ER for Xrays and muscle relaxers. A week later I am fully healed with the exception of scabbed road rash.
> QUOTE]
> 
> I don't know where you live Vee, but that sounds like a C grade crash we had here in Brisbane?? I wasn't there but was told it happened right at the front. Only about 10 or so got through.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, I live in Louisiana. Fortunately my crash didn't cause a massive pileup.
Click to expand...


----------



## zender

Vee said:


> . After a few days rest I pulled the bike apart and here is the verdict.
> 
> - Right and Left shifters had scratches in the carbon and plastic.
> - Right hood had a few gouges, and may eventually need to be replaced.
> - Right bar tape has a chunk out of it, and will eventually need to be replaced.
> - Rear derailleur took an impact and was scraped up some.
> - Frame down tube had a chip about 6x8mm large. It was not completely through the carbon, but it was chipped down through the paint and into the carbon weave.
> - Front wheel was out of true.
> - Saddle had a small gash out of it.


Of course, the naysayers would say that your body cushioned the fall for the bike and that's why it came through unscathed. But seriously, glad to hear you're (relatively) OK. I've dumped two Dengfu frames, though not at 30+ mph and they both seem to have come through unscathed (and by "seem to be" I mean multiple thousands of miles after said crashes without incident).

Honestly, I can't imagine racing on a 4000 dollar Pinarello unless you could part with that kind of coin without breaking a sweat. I love that about these cheap frames you can abuse the hell out of them and in a couple of years, you get something new, turn it into a fixie or town bike or whatever.


----------



## zender

maxxevv said:


> If it 'ticks' its usually a bearing issue. Either at the BB or the pedal. Do check for smoothness bearings if it persists.
> 
> On the rare occasion, it happens when the chainring bolts where they interface with the crank arms have some oxidation and the sound is from the oxidised area rubbing under load.
> 
> Hope it helps. :thumbsup:


I had a loose chainring bolt (not very loose, just not torqued fully) give a cadence dependent tick while climbing at high power/high cadence. I could have sworn it was the BB. Point being, you just have to diagnose these noises one item at a time, starting with least hassle to most.

Incidentally, I had an idea for a video I was going to shoot with a friend of mine where a guy is trying to isolate a creak in his bike. Takes everything apart, starts replacing part after part. Eventually, he gives up and just buys a whole new bike... and the creak is still there.


----------



## gpcyclist25

zender said:


> Of course, the naysayers would say that your body cushioned the fall for the bike and that's why it came through unscathed. But seriously, glad to hear you're (relatively) OK. I've dumped two Dengfu frames, though not at 30+ mph and they both seem to have come through unscathed (and by "seem to be" I mean multiple thousands of miles after said crashes without incident).
> 
> Honestly, I can't imagine racing on a 4000 dollar Pinarello unless you could part with that kind of coin without breaking a sweat. I love that about these cheap frames you can abuse the hell out of them and in a couple of years, you get something new, turn it into a fixie or town bike or whatever.


Honestly I think that's the real virtue of these frames. After they're kitted up, they're still $3k+ rides. The difference is that you don't have 50%+ of the value wrapped up in a key part that is likely to be catastrophically damaged in some kind of crash/collision. To me, that's just a terribly lack of financial risk diversification, especially since crashes, etc., tend to be eventualities for cyclists, one way or another.


----------



## zender

plh1964 said:


> So on with the open molds


And to think De Rosa wants several grand for that frame. I know, it's probably better carbon and "layup" done by guys who make the carbon parts for the F22. 

I saw the real R838 in person in a shop and the finish is, admittedly, beautiful. What surprised me, though, is the bottom bracket shell, which is rough exposed aluminum on the open mold frames, looked identical on the real thing. I would have expected them to machine that down to a nice polish or even anodize it black or red. This was a reputable shop, so I don't think it was a fake.


----------



## technospolar

Vee said:


> ...
> - Frame down tube had a chip about 6x8mm large. It was not completely through the carbon, but it was chipped down through the paint and into the carbon weave.
> ...
> The bike is back together and is as good as new. I rode it today and it is like nothing happened. So much for these frames exploding from just riding them...
> 
> For those of you unfamiliar with my FM015, you can check a gallery of it out here: https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/114829676485387766098/albums/5701657329767968929


Doesn't this chip that interrupted the carbon weave weaken the frame? Are you going to do anything to it? Its possible to have sub-surface micro-cracks as well. Full scale repairs may need to over-wrap the whole tube. I'm curious what it looks like. 

Glad to see you and the bike came through well. I have also got into a pileup insight of the finish line.


----------



## Vee

technospolar said:


> Doesn't this chip that interrupted the carbon weave weaken the frame? Are you going to do anything to it? Its possible to have sub-surface micro-cracks as well. Full scale repairs may need to over-wrap the whole tube. I'm curious what it looks like.
> 
> Glad to see you and the bike came through well. I have also got into a pileup insight of the finish line.


I will take a picture to show you, but it is not as bad as you may think.


----------



## Seneb

New decal, made locally by a buddy of mine.


----------



## nbwallace

*Very interesting*

My AC-053, or as I call it the Phoil, bent a der hanger one day. I replaced it and the next ride the chain got caught up in the rear derailleur and broke the frame at the drop out. I have assumed that the rear der had a problem. I have already ordered a new frame and four hangers. I really like the frame, my buddies think I'm crazy buying another of the same frame.

I have asked a few mechanics and they have seen name brand frames having the same problem but there isn't much material down there at the dropout especially when you put a screw for the hanger through it.




blend76 said:


> Hmmm,
> I have been having issues with derailleur hangers bending after few hundred kilometers/miles. I have had to replace four already because they just will not stay true. I wonder if there is similar mechanics at play. Let us know how this works out and if you have ideas on how to fix it.


----------



## kokothemonkey

Coolhand said:


> The fakes are gone.


So what constitutes a fake?


----------



## Urb

kokothemonkey said:


> So what constitutes a fake?


Seems like a question to provoke debate but I'll bite.

Fake or couterfiet should be considered synonymous here. What's the difference between a clone and a fake? Branding. There is an abundance of legal cloning of product out there intentional or not. Patents do expire. However branding a product with anothers companies name or trademark is certainly illegal.


----------



## kokothemonkey

Urb said:


> Seems like a question to provoke debate but I'll bite.
> 
> Fake or couterfiet should be considered synonymous here. What's the difference between a clone and a fake? Branding. There is an abundance of legal cloning of product out there intentional or not. Patents do expire. However branding a product with anothers companies name or trademark is certainly illegal.


Just seems to me that this whole thread and discussion is at risk if we are even giving credence to the whiners claiming that this is counterfeit and so on. If people want to put pinarello all over their generic chinese bike, more power to them, it's not like roadbikereview is promoting these bikes as "brand name bikes" and then profiting from them. This isn't a fake rolex site. 

If people are getting good deals by buying directly and then putting decals all over them due to various reasons, then rock on, IMO.


----------



## Urb

kokothemonkey said:


> If people are getting good deals by buying directly and then putting decals all over them due to various reasons, then rock on, IMO.


And there we have the key point. People are not buying direct not that buying direct is an option with the major brands. They are buying clones and branding them as the original manufacturer. That is counterfieting and I totally understand why RBR removes that content.

I'm sure we all understand the reasons why people counterfeit, clone, or copy. Same as we all understand why there is so much debate over the subject. Like everyone I have an opinion on the matter but I'll keep it to myself. It's all been said many times over.


----------



## ptsbike55

*Derailleur Hanger*

[QUOTE
Very interesting

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My AC-053, or as I call it the Phoil, bent a der hanger one day. I replaced it and the next ride the chain got caught up in the rear derailleur and broke the frame at the drop out. I have assumed that the rear der had a problem. I have already ordered a new frame and four hangers. I really like the frame, my buddies think I'm crazy buying another of the same frame.

I have asked a few mechanics and they have seen name brand frames having the same problem but there isn't much material down there at the dropout especially when you put a screw for the hanger through it.




Quote:




Originally Posted by blend76

Hmmm,
I have been having issues with derailleur hangers bending after few hundred kilometers/miles. I have had to replace four already because they just will not stay true. I wonder if there is similar mechanics at play. Let us know how this works out and if you have ideas on how to fix it.

This is what I did to solve my derailleur hanger problem. I ground a piece of steel plate to fit the hanger. I glued it to the hanger with JB Weld. The piece of steel stiffened the hanger quite a bit. I then used a Park hanger alignment tool to get the alignment correct. Make sure the screws holding the hanger are tight. It now shifts great.


----------



## Izarra

Urb said:


> Seems like a question to provoke debate but I'll bite.
> 
> Fake or couterfiet should be considered synonymous here. What's the difference between a clone and a fake? Branding. There is an abundance of legal cloning of product out there intentional or not. Patents do expire. However branding a product with anothers companies name or trademark is certainly illegal.


So how do you call that one? 
Specialized name on a FMB tub. (Boonen's bike) 
Remember Miguel Indurain and Pedro Delgado's carbon fiber bike?
It was TVT frame re-badged with Pinarello name.


----------



## Urb

Izarra said:


> So how do you call that one?
> Specialized name on a FMB tub. (Boonen's bike)
> Remember Miguel Indurain and Pedro Delgado's carbon fiber bike?
> It was TVT frame re-badged with Pinarello name.



What are you confused about? Fakes and counterfeits vs clones? Perhaps to many there is no difference and fair enough. But in the RBR policy I think it's easy to see where the line is drawn.

I'm not sure how they worked out licensing of that situation if at all with the tube. With the tvt frame I thought this was done to appease indurains sponsor but I'm not fully versed on the topic so I may be wrong. Wouldn't matter. Still won't change the fact that certain content is considered unacceptable and would be removed by the mods.


----------



## blend76

ptsbike55 said:


> [QUOTE
> This is what I did to solve my derailleur hanger problem. I ground a piece of steel plate to fit the hanger. I glued it to the hanger with JB Weld. The piece of steel stiffened the hanger quite a bit. I then used a Park hanger alignment tool to get the alignment correct. Make sure the screws holding the hanger are tight. It now shifts great.


Hmmm,

Interesting. So what you are essentially saying is that the alloy on the supplied derailleur hangers is too weak to withstand the forces created by normal use and for that reason you had to reinforce the hanger? Sounds plausible. I was wondering whether it was just the clumsy removal and re-installation of the rear wheel that has been bending my FM015s' hangers. Of course when you create a beefier hanger the likelyhood of breaking the frame increases, but in this case I think it is probably worth the risk.

To me it sounds like the other fellow (nbwallace) had adjusted the rear derailleur for the bent hanger and then when changing to a new one the adjustment was out of whack. It seems the hangers tend to bend outwards and that would obviously cause a problem unless the low gear adjustment is checked. I can see that happening to me and I think it even has last year at some point. Luckily I noticed it taking a test spin on the parking lot. You do need to be careful doing your own wrenching.


----------



## Mankul

Urb said:


> Seems like a question to provoke debate but I'll bite.
> 
> Fake or couterfiet should be considered synonymous here. What's the difference between a clone and a fake? Branding. There is an abundance of legal cloning of product out there intentional or not. Patents do expire. However branding a product with anothers companies name or trademark is certainly illegal.


What is the customer bought a similar frame and requested the seller to paste sticker of a brand on the fram? Isn't it the same as those kids at the neighbourhood on their bmx with shimano stickers on the frame?

This time round, the customer request for the similar frame to be painted in brand colour(paint and stickers are basically the same).


----------



## Mankul

Izarra said:


> So how do you call that one?
> Specialized name on a FMB tub. (Boonen's bike)
> Remember Miguel Indurain and Pedro Delgado's carbon fiber bike?
> It was TVT frame re-badged with Pinarello name.


Rebadging seems to be the opposite of counterfeiting


----------



## Rob81

my new frame, just arrived yesterday
Low quality pics and decals missing, I'll post something better in the next days


----------



## ptsbike55

*Hanger Issues*

Blend76,
Here is a link to an article about derailleur hangers. Looks like it is a more common problem than just us. 
.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...lleur-hangers-when-building-a-new-bike_208516


----------



## krusty1053

Rob81
That looks fantastic. What size is your frame?


----------



## Vaughn231

the seatpost itself should be 31.6mm


----------



## turbogrover

Mankul said:


> Rebadging seems to be the opposite of counterfeiting


Hey it may not be "the opposite" but you yourself can obviously tell the difference between the two, so you have no moral ground to stand on either.

I had a chinese frame that was purchased with Colnago stickers on it, but I never said to anyone that I owned a Colnago, and I resold it as a generic frame. If anyone ever asked me if it was a Colnago, I let them know it was a fake, It was a counterfeit frame in my opinion.


----------



## zigmeister

Izarra said:


> So how do you call that one?
> Specialized name on a FMB tub. (Boonen's bike)
> Remember Miguel Indurain and Pedro Delgado's carbon fiber bike?
> It was TVT frame re-badged with Pinarello name.


I would surmise they likely have agreements/contracts to be allowed to do such and are completely aware of the practice and authorize such. Otherwise, they would be in court fighting it out. But it likely never comes to that, so somebody is getting credit/paid for their work, or to hide it.


----------



## Rob81

krusty1053 said:


> Rob81
> That looks fantastic. What size is your frame?


seat tube 46cm
virtual orizontal 53.5 cm
new pics when I'll get the decals


----------



## blend76

ptsbike55 said:


> Blend76,
> Here is a link to an article about derailleur hangers. Looks like it is a more common problem than just us.
> .
> http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...lleur-hangers-when-building-a-new-bike_208516


Thanks. It was an interesting read. It has never occurred to me you would need to adjust the derailleur hanger and remove resin residue building up new "real" frames as well. I think I'm going to be gluing left over alloy sheet to the next hanger.

BTW. Rob81's bike is going to be a real stunner!


----------



## Dersnap

blend76 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> BTW. Rob81's bike is going to be a real stunner!


IMHO I think it also looks super dope.
Which frame?

Looking forward to more pics


----------



## Tswifty

Rob81 said:


> my new frame, just arrived yesterday
> Low quality pics and decals missing, I'll post something better in the next days


That frame kinda reminds me of the Giant TCR they look good


----------



## Bridgey

I won a bike race today on my new Chinarello Mad-Dog. 3rd ride on it ever and it handled everything flawlessly. Bumps felt like they were smooth, total control at high speeds and it can handle a good sprint. Got heaps of positive attention. Plenty of people wanted to know where I got it from, especially after I won  Best money I've ever spent.


----------



## FTR

ANZAC 25?
Saw you there if it was you but did not get to catch you to chat.
I was there on the Moots with Mad Fiber wheels.
With the Koiled team racing Masters B.


----------



## Tswifty

FTR said:


> ANZAC 25?
> Saw you there if it was you but did not get to catch you to chat.
> I was there on the Moots with Mad Fiber wheels.
> With the Koiled team racing Masters B.


Sorry to pry but what state in Australia are you guys from?


----------



## FTR

Tswifty said:


> Sorry to pry but what state in Australia are you guys from?


Brisbane, Queensland.


----------



## maxxevv

Bridgey said:


> I won a bike race today on my new Chinarello Mad-Dog. 3rd ride on it ever and it handled everything flawlessly. Bumps felt like they were smooth, total control at high speeds and it can handle a good sprint. Got heaps of positive attention. Plenty of people wanted to know where I got it from, especially after I won  Best money I've ever spent.


Must have been fun indeed with all the incredulous looks on people's faces when they actually read what the decals on your bike says !!


----------



## Bridgey

maxxevv said:


> Must have been fun indeed with all the incredulous looks on people's faces when they actually read what the decals on your bike says !!


Funny you mention that. There was this guy who was parked next to me. He kept looking into my car (where my bike was after the race). As I approached my car, I saw that he had a Pinarello Paris in the same blue as I had with the Sky seatpost but not aero. He said that he use to have the Pin Prince but it cracked all up the dropout area and they replaced it with a Pinarello Paris.

He said my Pinarello looks awesome, the design, etc. He hadn't noticed the decals. Just the design etc and assumed it was a Pinarello. He looked at it about 4 times before I got to him. When I explained that it was only a replica and where I got it from, price, etc it nearly floored him. He paid $6000 for his Pinarello. He asked me the weight and was again floored that it was pretty much the same. His bike was nice too,


----------



## Bridgey

FTR said:


> ANZAC 25?
> Saw you there if it was you but did not get to catch you to chat.
> I was there on the Moots with Mad Fiber wheels.
> With the Koiled team racing Masters B.


Yes I remember seeing you there. I thought I recognised that bike from somewhere. I don't know if you remember but you were looking at me and at the time I remember looking at your bike thinking nice bike (the colour coordination, decals, etc). Was going to say something but for one reason or another didn't. 

Funny, but I think these custom made bikes of ours get a whole lot more attention than the normal shop bought bikes. Plus they're cheaper and based on my experience as good of a ride. How did you go in your race?


----------



## 1805078

Where did you get this frame from??


----------



## 1805078

Rob81 said:


> my new frame, just arrived yesterday
> Low quality pics and decals missing, I'll post something better in the next days


Where did you get this frame from please. I like it a lot


----------



## FTR

Bridgey said:


> Yes I remember seeing you there. I thought I recognised that bike from somewhere. I don't know if you remember but you were looking at me and at the time I remember looking at your bike thinking nice bike (the colour coordination, decals, etc). Was going to say something but for one reason or another didn't.
> 
> Funny, but I think these custom made bikes of ours get a whole lot more attention than the normal shop bought bikes. Plus they're cheaper and based on my experience as good of a ride. How did you go in your race?


Team was going well and we had everyone where we wanted coming into the 2nd last lap.
Last lap was a complete mess though with people getting stupid.
As a result we all got splintered apart.
Coming up the hill into Hungry Corner and there was sudden breaking from up front which backed me off and saw me drop well back in the pack.
Last lap and our main sprinter managed to break his pedal. I slowed even further to make sure he was OK.
I think one of our sprinters got 5th.
Enjoy that course but it makes it even clearer how bad some of the riding is.

Good work on your win.
What grade?


----------



## FTR

Bridgey said:


> Only Masters C, but am being called a burglar. I have a okay sprint, but am overweight and struggle on the hills, was able to recover in between each hill climb. Trying to lose weight for the Cunningham Classic now. Kept within reach and got into Warwick with the leaders at 100kg's last year. Trying to be about 85kg this year if possible. 95kg now. At Lakeside, every year the inside gets blocked. I always take the outside line around that hill. Every year it's worked for me on the final lap. I saw your grade come in. Pretty close with the top 10.


Yep, was going up the outside.
Worked for 3 laps in a row then suddenly on the 2nd last lap there was a roadblock there.
Will have to look into the Cunningham.
Could suit me.


----------



## Bridgey

FTR said:


> Team was going well and we had everyone where we wanted coming into the 2nd last lap.
> Last lap was a complete mess though with people getting stupid.
> As a result we all got splintered apart.
> Coming up the hill into Hungry Corner and there was sudden breaking from up front which backed me off and saw me drop well back in the pack.
> Last lap and our main sprinter managed to break his pedal. I slowed even further to make sure he was OK.
> I think one of our sprinters got 5th.
> Enjoy that course but it makes it even clearer how bad some of the riding is.
> 
> Good work on your win.
> What grade?


Only Masters C, but am being called a burglar. I have a okay sprint, but am overweight and struggle on the hills, was able to recover in between each hill climb. Trying to lose weight for the Cunningham Classic now. Kept within reach and got into Warwick with the leaders at 100kg's last year. Trying to be about 85kg this year if possible. 95kg now. At Lakeside, every year the inside gets blocked. I always take the outside line around that hill. Every year it's worked for me on the final lap. I saw your grade come in. Pretty close with the top 10.


----------



## maxxevv

Bridgey said:


> Funny you mention that. There was this guy who was parked next to me. He kept looking into my car (where my bike was after the race). As I approached my car, I saw that he had a Pinarello Paris in the same blue as I had with the Sky seatpost but not aero. He said that he use to have the Pin Prince but it cracked all up the dropout area and they replaced it with a Pinarello Paris.
> 
> He said my Pinarello looks awesome, the design, etc. He hadn't noticed the decals. Just the design etc and assumed it was a Pinarello. He looked at it about 4 times before I got to him. When I explained that it was only a replica and where I got it from, price, etc it nearly floored him. He paid $6000 for his Pinarello. He asked me the weight and was again floored that it was pretty much the same. His bike was nice too,


Haha.... that's usually what happens really. Some 5~6 years back, helped a friend get a custom, made to measure Ti frameset from Taiwan. It was special as he needed a 185mm headtube though he's only 1.78m, due to a bad back. The finish quality was indeed comparable to a Litespeed as the same factory was OEM for a few notable brands. 

He liked it so much, he actually got a Litespeed head badge from Ebay and plastered it on. And he got a lot of enquiries on how much his 'custom Litespeed' cost and how did he go about ordering it., etc, etc ... He had a lot of fun joking with his friends and acquaintances for a few minutes before actually explaining to them the real story each time. And this actually went on for quite a few weekend rides ! And the look on their faces was really quite hilarious at times too!


----------



## Spursrider

1805078 said:


> Where did you get this frame from please. I like it a lot


Looks like it is FLX-FR-315 from Flyxii : FLYXI


----------



## Rob81

some new pics and spec descriptions:
massarob.info: Bici 2012 | Bike 2012


----------



## Mr.Habanero

1805078 said:


> Where did you get this frame from please. I like it a lot


Thats uber badass


----------



## technospolar

*dengfu on alibaba*

I've tried to research this in this 13 page thread and some of the priors. 

DENGFU on Alibaba/tony reports a 2 year warranty. Does anyone have a Warranty statement? How about experience dealing with the warranty...

I'm considering an Ultegra or Force build of their Black/Red FM098 with a LBS build up.
I've read through the quite lengthy threads, but is their a nice summary recommendation cheat sheet?


----------



## 1805078

Rob81 said:


> some new pics and spec descriptions:
> massarob.info: Bici 2012 | Bike 2012


Well done mate...simple and good looking.
I recon I will be buying the same frame.
I was on the website today....Can you tell me if they charge extra for shipping or is the web site price inclusive of delivery

cheers


----------



## jordo_99

technospolar said:


> I've tried to research this in this 13 page thread and some of the priors.
> 
> DENGFU on Alibaba/tony reports a 2 year warranty. Does anyone have a Warranty statement? How about experience dealing with the warranty...
> 
> I'm considering an Ultegra or Force build of their Black/Red FM098 with a LBS build up.
> I've read through the quite lengthy threads, but is their a nice summary recommendation cheat sheet?


I'm building my FM098 (3k matte with Sky Blue colored venge accents) with Force (except FSA crank and TRP 902SL brakes and Dura Ace FD...want the new Yaw FD bad though)

I'm not sure about the warranty though...my invoice doesn't say anything about it, though if I were to have an issue that is their fault I'd expect them to honor the advertized warranty...I just don't expect to have issues once the bike is built up.


----------



## Rob81

I contacted them directly and they ship with HK Post @ that price
Incredibly I got it in 6 days after its real shipping date, so almost 1/2 the time than previous frames with EMS


----------



## zigmeister

technospolar said:


> I've tried to research this in this 13 page thread and some of the priors.
> 
> DENGFU on Alibaba/tony reports a 2 year warranty. Does anyone have a Warranty statement? How about experience dealing with the warranty...
> 
> I'm considering an Ultegra or Force build of their Black/Red FM098 with a LBS build up.
> I've read through the quite lengthy threads, but is their a nice summary recommendation cheat sheet?


I'm personally making an assumption that it will be likely impossible to get them to replace a frame/fork if something goes wrong.

Kind of treating my Chinese frames like a used name brand frame, no warranty and you are on your own.

I haven't heard any stories of people's frames/forks busting, and getting them replaced. Would like to hear any of those tales!


----------



## kanekikapu

speaking of Dengfu it looks like they now too have the super light fm066 available

Super Light road-DengFuBieks


----------



## redmr2_man

kanekikapu said:


> speaking of Dengfu it looks like they now too have the super light fm066 available
> 
> Super Light road-DengFuBieks


anyone else notice the dengfu version has a more "realistic" weight to it?

850+- 20g.

The hongfu was quoted at 780+-20g.

Either way, they're light and look fantastic. Not super excited on the color choice for the dengfu blue, but the matte/ud hongfu looks GREAT! I'm still waiting on someone to build one and give impressions. Geo looks spot on for me, just waiting to pull the trigger.

Campy 10sp (veloce/centaur/record bastard mix) w/ fsa cockpit and ksyrium sl's. Should be a great bike!


----------



## bosango

*Dengfu's FM066*

I'm not positive about this, but I think that blue paint job might just be for display. There are more photos and info on this frame over at the velobuild site.


----------



## FTR

There have been a couple of guys who have had their frames warrantied based on pictures of the breakage.


----------



## zender

zigmeister said:


> I'm personally making an assumption that it will be likely impossible to get them to replace a frame/fork if something goes wrong.
> 
> Kind of treating my Chinese frames like a used name brand frame, no warranty and you are on your own.
> 
> I haven't heard any stories of people's frames/forks busting, and getting them replaced. Would like to hear any of those tales!


+1 on this take.

Assuming they were to replace something, you'd have to disassemble the bike, pack and ship it back to them and have it shipped back to you god knows when. Not impossible, but best case scenario: a couple of hundred dollars in shipping, hours of bike wrenching on your part, and no bike for a month. This isn't the same as walking into your TREK dealer with your broken (Chinese) Madone and having them take care of you (not that THAT is a guarantee). A reasonable warranty is one of the things you are paying for when you plunk down a higher price for a name brand frame from a LBS.

For these reasons, I would not recommend going the self-built Chinese bike route for a one-and-only bike that you need to use every day. But for a rain bike, or a race-day bike or a TT bike, something you can get bored of and replace after a while, :thumbsup:


----------



## Bridgey

Pedal Force happily paid for the repairs of my bottom bracket (the whole insert was spinning within the frame) without me sending it back ($165 AUD). I supplied them with photos and youtube videos I'd made of it. I'm sure it was a cheaper alternative for them and was good for me as I couldn't do without the bike for a month or so.

Alternatively, they were happy to send me a new frame if I sent the other back. I negotiated not to send the other back but rather pay the postage on their behalf to get it here. The wait was going to be awhile as they had none in stock. So, in the end I decided to just go with them repairing the other frame as I decided I wanted a Chinarello as my race bike vs the CG1 anyways. I still use the repaired one as a training only bike. 

So I guess it depends who you go through.


----------



## Teo

Can anyone tell me why it takes so damn long for these Chinese manufacturers to build a ship a frame? I ordered my frame on March 14 and it's still not finished. Granted I did change the decals, but the paint scheme was a standard scheme.


----------



## FTR

Teo said:


> Can anyone tell me why it takes so damn long for these Chinese manufacturers to build a ship a frame? I ordered my frame on March 14 and it's still not finished. Granted I did change the decals, but the paint scheme was a standard scheme.


I was not aware that they had any standard paint schemes (if you mean where they already have the frames painted a specific way).
They do have some schemes that they have done before but from what I understand they dont keep any frames pre-painted.

Also at the moment there is a big bike show over there and I suspect that they will be attending. So much like the delays experienced with US builders around Interbike, Sea Otter etc.


----------



## Bridgey

Teo said:


> Can anyone tell me why it takes so damn long for these Chinese manufacturers to build a ship a frame? I ordered my frame on March 14 and it's still not finished. Granted I did change the decals, but the paint scheme was a standard scheme.


Mine took about 45 days as I had a change in decals. Painting can take awhile depending on how many colours are being used. Just make sure you put in a precautionary paypal resolution thing in before the 45 days are up. Then if all is good with the frame, you take it off or let it run out of time. I did it.


----------



## Mr.Habanero

*My "Intense" FM098*

This is my "intense" Fm098. I just got it finished and so far I am very happy with it.
Intense doesn't make a road bike, well they haven't in the last ten years or so. So I don't consider this a counterfeit or fake really. Besides I made up a name for it. Azer. it was supposed to be Razer but I messed up the Decals. Azer is a race of Fire People from Dungeons and Dragons which is kinda neat. More pix are at velobuild.com


----------



## bmcv11

*My Flyxii FR-303 build*

Just an update on my 1st. build experience. I ordered through Amy, 3K frame, fork & headset, seatpost & clamp, spacers & top cap, & 2 x bottle cages....Total cost $440 including delivery to UK. Was told they only had UD finish available so I accepted that.

Seven days after leaving Hong Kong, I received everything in my original request of 3K weave !!.......no problem as the quality and finish far exceeded my highest expectations.

Build was very straight forward.....headset top bearing droppped in for a snug fit.......bottom just needed a gentle squeeze.......used one shim on top of compression ring, and everything is good.

Inner cables went through easily.......needed a longer nut(23mm) for front caliper

This has been a budget build as I am now 70 years of age and only got back into cycling 18 mths. ago after losing my dear wife to Cancer. Reading you guy's experiences on this thread inspired me to have a go at this, and I'm delighted with the result.

It's built will full Tiagra 10 speed groupset(50/34...& 12-30 as I live on the edge of the Pennines and it's hill,hills & more hills)......Fulcrum racing 7 wheels with Continental Gatorskin......Fizik Aliante saddle & Deda compact cockpit.

Weighs in at 8.2kgs w/o pedals.......Cost £ 834

Photo's to follow


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

bmcv11 said:


> ...
> Weighs in at 8.2kgs w/o pedals.......Cost £ 834
> Photo's to follow


Sorry abt your missus ... Pennines is a bit far to go otherwise would love to go out for a ride with you ... Looking forward to your pictures ... :thumbsup:


----------



## bmcv11

*My Flyxii FR-303 photo's*

View attachment 255891


View attachment 255892


View attachment 255893


View attachment 255894


----------



## Teo

FTR said:


> I was not aware that they had any standard paint schemes (if you mean where they already have the frames painted a specific way).
> They do have some schemes that they have done before but from what I understand they dont keep any frames pre-painted.
> 
> Also at the moment there is a big bike show over there and I suspect that they will be attending. So much like the delays experienced with US builders around Interbike, Sea Otter etc.



I guess I said incorrectly, mine was a paint scheme they have done before. And they did mention some big bike show in one of their emails.


----------



## bmcv11

*Couple of better photo's*

View attachment 255898


View attachment 255899


----------



## technospolar

zigmeister said:


> I'm personally making an assumption that it will be likely impossible to get them to replace a frame/fork if something goes wrong.
> 
> Kind of treating my Chinese frames like a used name brand frame, no warranty and you are on your own.
> 
> I haven't heard any stories of people's frames/forks busting, and getting them replaced. Would like to hear any of those tales!


Yeah, It may be a slow replacement if you get lucky. I would like to get the Neuvation FC500 but their sizing has me stuck between sizes since I'm looking for a 55cm c-c tt. 

Any others like Neuvation that offer good service but budget pricing?


----------



## bmcv11

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Sorry abt your missus ... Pennines is abit far to go otherwise would love to go out for a ride with you ... Looking forward to your pictures ... :thumbsup:


Cheers Chinaman......where are you......or is the clue in your name ?


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

bmcv11 said:


> ....where are you......or is the clue in your name ?


nah ... I am just on the north downs ... right next to Boxhill actually ... 

btw ... is that a 53/39 chainset you are using? ... if I intend to use a compact chainset, I am just wondering if the FD will hit the right rear chainstay ...

do you have a weight for your frame?


----------



## bmcv11

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> nah ... I am just on the north downs ... right next to Boxhill actually ...
> 
> btw ... is that a 53/39 chainset you are using? ... if I intend to use a compact chainset, I am just wondering if the FD will hit the right rear chainstay ...
> 
> do you have a weight for your frame?


As I said in my post, it's a 50/34 chainset and there's plenty of clearance.

Frame weighed 1038grms......fork 376 uncut.


----------



## roadbiker20

bmcv11,
nice build!! i was thinking about getting the same frame, how does it ride??


----------



## MKO

bmcv11 said:


> As I said in my post, it's a 50/34 chainset and there's plenty of clearance.
> 
> Frame weighed 1038grms......fork 376 uncut.


Nice bike with a good weight. :thumbsup:
What's size is it?


Edit: I read your previous posts - for a 54cm frame, that's a great weight!
BTW do you use inline adjusters for the derailleur cables?


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

bmcv11 said:


> As I said in my post, it's a 50/34 chainset and there's plenty of clearance.
> 
> Frame weighed 1038grms......fork 376 uncut.


typical of these forums users who do not read or who read but do not absorb any ...  

:lol:

cheers ... very nice frame weight ...


----------



## bmcv11

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> typical of these forums users who do not read or who read but do not absorb any ...
> 
> :lol:
> 
> cheers mate :thumbsup:


----------



## FTR

Teo said:


> I guess I said incorrectly, mine was a paint scheme they have done before. And they did mention some big bike show in one of their emails.


Yes, but they still have to paint and decal the raw frame for you.
My MTB frame is now up to 54 days and will likely blow out to 60.
Just sent them another hurry up on Friday.


----------



## roadbiker20

Nice build!!! I was thinking about getting this same frame, how does it ride??


----------



## aerodinamico

Chinarelo usted only BSA is bad frame in my opinión only BSA is better bb30


----------



## mmatrix

*looks gr8*



Mr.Habanero said:


> This is my "intense" Fm098. I just got it finished and so far I am very happy with it.
> Intense doesn't make a road bike, well they haven't in the last ten years or so. So I don't consider this a counterfeit or fake really. Besides I made up a name for it. Azer. it was supposed to be Razer but I messed up the Decals. Azer is a race of Fire People from Dungeons and Dragons which is kinda neat. More pix are at velobuild.com


very nice build :23:


----------



## Bridgey

aerodinamico said:


> Chinarelo usted only BSA is bad frame in my opinión only BSA is better bb30


I have a Chinarello with BB30 (specially made for me by them) and it is no problem at all. Works fine. Appears well built. Not quite sure what you are getting at or purpose for the post?


----------



## castofone

@bmcv11: Is that one of those mirrors that looks between your legs? How do you like it?

Flyxii don't publish weights I notice. How heavy is your frame?


----------



## castofone

Re ultralight frame sets: I know Xpace, HongFu and DengFu make frames less than 900g. If you know of any others please share.


----------



## bmcv11

roadbiker20 said:


> Nice build!!! I was thinking about getting this same frame, how does it ride??


To me it rides like a dream.....but this is my first road bike in over 50 years. I only got back into cycling 18 mths ago, when I bought a Trek 7.5fx hybrid.

I took the trek to Tenerife on holiday and really got the bug back, being able to get out everyday in the sunshine. Trying to climb the hills there into a force 4/5 wind soon made realise that what I really needed was a proper road bike with drop bars.

Did all the research and decided I needed a frame that wouldn't kill my back to much and this seemed to fit the bill. 

Cant compare it to the Trek as that would be unfair......all I can say is......on the flat when I shift onto the large chainwheel the bike just seems to pickup and fly.

Hills that I struggled on I'm now over thinking......what happened there!!

But then I'm not a racer, purely recreational to me, just something to get me out of the house and get some excercise, but I do love this bike.


----------



## bmcv11

MKO said:


> Nice bike with a good weight. :thumbsup:
> What's size is it?
> 
> 
> Edit: I read your previous posts - for a 54cm frame, that's a great weight!
> BTW do you use inline adjusters for the derailleur cables?


Yes......your right it is a 54cm. The new Tiagra 10 speed has side exit cables with inline adjusters included.

I actually like the way the two cables go parallel down to enter the downtube. Less friction and less clutter on the bars.


----------



## bmcv11

castofone said:


> @bmcv11: Is that one of those mirrors that looks between your legs? How do you like it?
> 
> Flyxii don't publish weights I notice. How heavy is your frame?


Very observant castofone. Yes.....it's called a bike-eye.......only just fitted so haven't got used to it yet.

Frame weighed 1038grms. fork 376 uncut.


----------



## stuzenz

FTR, 
I am about to order a FM028 as well. I like the design of your colour scheme, would you mind if I use the same overall design with different colours? If you are okay with this, could you please share me your images so I can make the adjustments.

Thanks!
Stuart


----------



## FTR

stuzenz said:


> FTR,
> I am about to order a FM028 as well. I like the design of your colour scheme, would you mind if I use the same overall design with different colours? If you are okay with this, could you please share me your images so I can make the adjustments.
> 
> Thanks!
> Stuart


Stuart

I dont have the original drawings but you are welcome to copy the pics from here.
They also have a few pics of my frame and fork on their website.


----------



## stuzenz

FTR said:


> Stuart
> 
> I dont have the original drawings but you are welcome to copy the pics from here.
> They also have a few pics of my frame and fork on their website.


HI FTR,

Thanks for the offer. The pics on the forum should do nicely.

This morning I asked for a quote from Tony - who weirdly seems to be Greatkeen, which also seems to be Dengfu. Where do you order your one from? The Dengfu website is very basic and slow without many pictures at all.

How was the service at the place you ordered from?

Thanks,
Stuart


----------



## FTR

Ordered via Dengfu
Their service was good at the time.
However a few months ago I tried to order a MTB frame via them and could not even get a response.
Tried a few different emails and no result.
I have since ordered via Jenny at Hongfu.


----------



## turbogrover

Teo said:


> Can anyone tell me why it takes so damn long for these Chinese manufacturers to build a ship a frame? I ordered my frame on March 14 and it's still not finished. Granted I did change the decals, but the paint scheme was a standard scheme.


Unless you have purchased a frame that was actually in a photo, you have to wait in line for your frame to be painted no matter how simple the paint is. I ordered mine plain white, and waited an extra 3 weeks for it to ship. Just gotta be patient.


----------



## hansonator69

New Dengfu TT frame - FM069.


----------



## roadbiker20

bmcv11 said:


> To me it rides like a dream.....but this is my first road bike in over 50 years. I only got back into cycling 18 mths ago, when I bought a Trek 7.5fx hybrid.
> 
> I took the trek to Tenerife on holiday and really got the bug back, being able to get out everyday in the sunshine. Trying to climb the hills there into a force 4/5 wind soon made realise that what I really needed was a proper road bike with drop bars.
> 
> Did all the research and decided I needed a frame that wouldn't kill my back to much and this seemed to fit the bill.
> 
> Cant compare it to the Trek as that would be unfair......all I can say is......on the flat when I shift onto the large chainwheel the bike just seems to pickup and fly.
> 
> Hills that I struggled on I'm now over thinking......what happened there!!
> 
> But then I'm not a racer, purely recreational to me, just something to get me out of the house and get some excercise, but I do love this bike.


thanks for the report. looking at either the 301 or 303 from them. i just got back into cycling after 10 years away, used to race a bit in college. i bought a cheap windsor from bikesdirect mostly just to ride to work and quickly forgot how much i loved riding. updated the components to 105, but the bike is still heavy and sluggish.


----------



## roadbiker20

oops meant "quickly* remembered* how much i loved riding"


----------



## Vee

hansonator69 said:


> New Dengfu TT frame - FM069.


Is that a nose cone I see? 

:blush2:


----------



## hansonator69

Vee said:


> Is that a nose cone I see?
> 
> :blush2:


Yes.


----------



## 3Kcarbon

bmcv11 said:


> Just an update on my 1st. build experience. I ordered through Amy, 3K frame, fork & headset, seatpost & clamp, spacers & top cap, & 2 x bottle cages....(snip)
> Build was very straight forward.....headset top bearing droppped in for a snug fit......


nice build, bmcv11! 
I plan to order a sample of that frame too. Did you get the Neco head set or which?


> Inner cables went through easily.......needed a longer nut(23mm) for front caliper


I could do without the internal shifter cable runs, but they seem to be all the rage right now (at least for the manufacturers, because the feedback I get from riders is that most don't care for it either!).
The front caliper nut reach often is a bit short in some frames. 
*Question:* does it look like a 28c tire can clear the frame? (I don't accept the reality of frequent flats, and don't have too much confidence on Gatorskin protection).


> This has been a budget build as I am now 70 years of age and only got back into cycling 18 mths. ago (snip)


Ah, a younger brother! Mine is a similar story... LIVED on my bike as a teen, but just got crazy over it again last year! :blush2:
Just keep alert about those blind or crazy cagers, so you don't get pushed into a ditch!
Have a good one!


----------



## CabDoctor

hansonator69 said:


> New Dengfu TT frame - FM069.












How much? And whats the smallest size it comes in?


----------



## CabDoctor

Double post


----------



## CabDoctor

Any word on availability


----------



## hansonator69

CabDoctor said:


> How much? And whats the smallest size it comes in?


No word on price yet but I assume it shouldn't be more expensive than $700.

TIME TRIAL FRAME-DengFuBieks Geometry chart here.


----------



## hansonator69

CabDoctor said:


> How much? And whats the smallest size it comes in?


No word on price yet but I assume it shouldn't be more expensive than $700.

TIME TRIAL FRAME-DengFuBieks Geometry chart here.


----------



## satonatree

doesnt the fm069 look a tad like the bmc tm01?


----------



## CabDoctor

satonatree said:


> doesnt the fm069 look a tad like the bmc tm01?


and Speed Concept


----------



## hansonator69

Stem reminds me of Felt DA. I hope it is a standard diameter steerer tube, otherwise I can't replicate my position or use different bars.


----------



## CabDoctor

I would love to a negative 17 deg stem on there like the shiv.


----------



## rwhsurf

I'm new to tri-bikes but am looking to purchase. Isn't a 56 tt size small for their largest size? I ride a 57/58 road bike and I am wondering if sizing down is common on TT Bikes. Thanks for any guidance.


----------



## hansonator69

I would love to put a Cadel Evans stem on it...


----------



## Tswifty

Heres a email from Lucky regarding the FM069

good day!
As for new TT frame FM069, it's the toppest design of TT model.
below are some details with this frameset, you can check:
1. This is our newest top design for tt bikes.
2. frameset is Aero style. 
3. the fork and and the handlebar is intergrated (please check attached detailed pictures), 
4. the brake system is special concealed style with strong ingenious braking adhesion.
5. the weight of the frame is super light! weight of it is about 1320g (based on size 54cm)
6. Di2 and normal derailleur system compatible.
7. full inside cable route.
8. size 50/52/54/56cm will be available.
The size 52cm mould already done, factory is producing the UD, BB30 for size 52cm now. i guess we will have it in stock soon!
other sizes' mould is making and testing by factory at present.


----------



## blend76

blend76 said:


> Hmmm,
> 
> Interesting. So what you are essentially saying is that the alloy on the supplied derailleur hangers is too weak to withstand the forces


I'm down to my last replacement hanger and I thought I would try to get a third party one to see if it could hold up little longer. I think both Hong Fu and Deng Fu use a similar hanger design. What "real" brands use similar design? Has somebody figured out some other sources for the hangers other than the manufacturers as the shipping from China is expensive? The ones from Wheels Manufacturing (model 61) and Pilo (models D211/D259) look bit similar. Or should I stop searching online and just head to my LBS?


----------



## bmcv11

@3Kcarbon

Headset was branded Flyxii, but looks identical to a Neco.

Not qualified to answer your tyre size question.

Are you saying that 23c tyres puncture more often than 28c tyres and that I've wasted my money paying for Gatorskin protection ?

Yea.......I do look out for the cagers......most of them are ok.......unfortunately, it only takes one !


----------



## 3Kcarbon

bmcv11 said:


> @3Kcarbon
> 
> Not qualified to answer your tyre size question.
> 
> Are you saying that 23c tyres puncture more often than 28c tyres and that I've wasted my money paying for Gatorskin protection ?


That may be a bit too strong a term. I do notice that punctures are a fact of life and a regular occurence with 23c, though much rarer with a decent 28c. In addition to the more comfortable ride of the 28c. Also noticed that my buddies' Gatorskins had several flats as well... which may well be coincidental to other factors. I myself rode Michelin 28c tires all last season without a single flat, and never worried about walking the bike over thorny weeds beside the trail, about which my buddy always warns me. Just my 2c worth - I would suggest you get 28c for your daily ride and slap on the 23c for your time trials!


----------



## Tswifty

3Kcarbon said:


> That may be a bit too strong a term. I do notice that punctures are a fact of life and a regular occurence with 23c, though much rarer with a decent 28c. In addition to the more comfortable ride of the 28c. Also noticed that my buddies' Gatorskins had several flats as well... which may well be coincidental to other factors. I myself rode Michelin 28c tires all last season without a single flat, and never worried about walking the bike over thorny weeds beside the trail, about which my buddy always warns me. Just my 2c worth - I would suggest you get 28c for your daily ride and slap on the 23c for your time trials!


Ive rode 23c Gatorskins for my entire road bike cycling life and i can count the amount of flats on ONE (1) Hand Thats about 7 years of 5-10k km worth a year. So your buddy must bee doing some serious damage somewhere else.


----------



## bmcv11

Tswifty said:


> Ive rode 23c Gatorskins for my entire road bike cycling life and i can count the amount of flats on ONE (1) Hand Thats about 7 years of 5-10k km worth a year. So your buddy must bee doing some serious damage somewhere else.


Glad to hear that Tswifty.......he had me worried there for a minute


----------



## 3Kcarbon

Tswifty said:


> Ive rode 23c Gatorskins for my entire road bike cycling life and i can count the amount of flats on ONE (1) Hand Thats about 7 years of 5-10k km worth a year. So your buddy must bee doing some serious damage somewhere else.


Well, for one thing he weighs 200lbs, which adds to the risks. On one ride I just saw him hit a crack in the pavement and the front tire was flat a minute later. How much do you weigh?


----------



## zender

rwhsurf said:


> I'm new to tri-bikes but am looking to purchase. Isn't a 56 tt size small for their largest size? I ride a 57/58 road bike and I am wondering if sizing down is common on TT Bikes. Thanks for any guidance.


Your fitment will be completely different on the TT frame. Frame sizing is already variable from manufacturer to manufacturer for regular geometry road bikes, and it gets even more variable when you have a steep seat tube angle of a TT bike. If you're not sure how you fit on a bike of this geometry, don't guess. It would be best to go try a similar geometry bike at a shop to see what fits you and how extreme a position you can tolerate. It might matter to some degree if you are going to ride in sanctioned events with rules about front-of-saddle to center-of-BB distances. 

As an example I ride a "57cm" Litespeed road frame, and a "54 cm" FM018 TT frame.


That FM069 sure does look fast. Might have to ebay the 018 this winter and build yet another bike. Pity it doesn't have the 2 position seatpost.


----------



## Seneb

This is kind of funny. SP Carbon

Does that frame look familiar? :yesnod:

FR-315


----------



## hansonator69

zender said:


> That FM069 sure does look fast. Might have to ebay the 018 this winter and build yet another bike. Pity it doesn't have the 2 position seatpost.


Could ram the saddle clamp all the way forward or all the way back depending on your position, whether it is triathlon or UCI legal TT.


----------



## typ993

Anyone know if the Dengfu FM029 has a "braze-on" front derailleur mount or if you need a clamp? Wish they'd stop taking their photos from the left size.


----------



## kip.duff

*questions about FLX-FR-315*



Rob81 said:


> I contacted them directly and they ship with HK Post @ that price
> Incredibly I got it in 6 days after its real shipping date, so almost 1/2 the time than previous frames with EMS


Rob, or anyone:

Nice bike. I'm thinking of getting a FLX-FR-313 (or HongFu FM039) for myself. Yours appears to be "matt" finish (is this what they mean by "UD"?). Not totally clear in the picture: is it matt? Is that the way they normally come? If it is matt, did you have to pay extra and wait to get the matt finish?

Also, it looks like you got nominal size 52cm (46cm "seat tube"). My preliminary sizing calculation for me is for nominal size 56cm- I have 33.5" (85cm) inseam, 29" (73.7cm) BB to seat top, am 5' 11" (178cm), and 152lbs (69kg). I'm a little bit in the short leg/long back category. Are there reasons to go to smaller frames with these?

Any problems? I've noticed that some posters were talking about "aero" seat posts and front derailleur brackets not being secure on some models.

I have a CAAD 7 (56cm)/Hollowgram BB30. But I put together a DengFu FM015 (size 49cm) for my daughter, and I preferred it to the CAAD 7 when test riding. I want to get a Chinese frame for myself now- originally going to get an FM015 also (or FM028), but I'm starting to like the more modern frames.

Any opinions appreciated.

Thanks, Kip..............


----------



## Cat 3 boy

*Fr-315*

@Rob81 - loving your bike, and the pics on your website. I have loads to ask you!

Can you tell me how long the seatpost is on your frame , I'm worried I won't get enough saddle height as I need 75cm BB to saddle rails,

I'm thinking of a size 54 frame which is only 48cm to top of seat tube.

Also do you get much rattle from the internal cables, that would really p** me off ;¬)

Thnx

Steve


----------



## Rob81

reply in bold


kip.duff said:


> Rob, or anyone:
> 
> Nice bike. I'm thinking of getting a FLX-FR-313 (or HongFu FM039) for myself. Yours appears to be "matt" finish (is this what they mean by "UD"?). Not totally clear in the picture: is it matt? Is that the way they normally come? If it is matt, did you have to pay extra and wait to get the matt finish?
> 
> *matte, no extra payment, just waiting one week more because they had only glossy 3k*
> 
> Also, it looks like you got nominal size 52cm (46cm "seat tube"). My preliminary sizing calculation for me is for nominal size 56cm- I have 33.5" (85cm) inseam, 29" (73.7cm) BB to seat top, am 5' 11" (178cm), and 152lbs (69kg). I'm a little bit in the short leg/long back category. Are there reasons to go to smaller frames with these?
> *
> anatomically similar although my inseam is 82 cm, I guess this size could be too small for you*
> 
> Any problems? I've noticed that some posters were talking about "aero" seat posts and front derailleur brackets not being secure on some models.
> *Just a slipping seatpost, temporary solution now that I'm waiting for carbon paste is a little bit of tape inserted inside the seatpost clamp and it works, derrailleur clamp is not as stiff as "normal" ones but all seems fine *
> 
> I have a CAAD 7 (56cm)/Hollowgram BB30. But I put together a DengFu FM015 (size 49cm) for my daughter, and I preferred it to the CAAD 7 when test riding. I want to get a Chinese frame for myself now- originally going to get an FM015 also (or FM028), but I'm starting to like the more modern frames.
> 
> *I still keep my (2nd) Fm015 as "mule bike"  I sold the 1st one*





Cat 3 boy said:


> @Rob81 - loving your bike, and the pics on your website. I have loads to ask you!
> 
> Can you tell me how long the seatpost is on your frame , I'm worried I won't get enough saddle height as I need 75cm BB to saddle rails,
> *
> 35 cm, so you need for sure a bigger size than mine *
> 
> I'm thinking of a size 54 frame which is only 48cm to top of seat tube.
> 
> Also do you get much rattle from the internal cables, that would really p** me off ;¬)
> 
> *just on very rough roads but it happens rarely even here on Alps shattered asphalts*


----------



## beston

typ993 said:


> Anyone know if the Dengfu FM029 has a "braze-on" front derailleur mount or if you need a clamp? Wish they'd stop taking their photos from the left size.


Based on this image, I do not think it is has a braze on mount.

https://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/532157715/dengfu_FM029_isp_full_inside_cable_carbon.jpg


----------



## castofone

Hi Apachesix,
I see you have a carbon saddle. I was looking at them and I thought that model may be a little more flexible/comfortable than the others because the rail attachment points at the back are close together. Am I right. Is it comfortable?


----------



## castofone

Team Murray said:


> I have a similar project bike.
> 
> Frame: Axman R22 (made in taiwan)
> Size: 57cm top tube; 19cm head tube
> Group: SRAM Red Black (BB30)
> Wheels: Velocity with Tune hubs
> Bars: Ritchey WCS Carbon Evolution Curve
> Stem: Ritchey Pro Carbon
> Seatpost: Fizik Cyrano
> Seat: Fizik Arione CX
> Pedals: Look Keo2Max Carbon
> Tires: Mavic K10
> Weight: 14.5 pounds
> 
> I'm still thinking about the graphics. I was leaning toward using gloss black decals so the bike remains "stealthy".


That's a honey 
How did that frame work out, any issues?


----------



## ptsbike55

> I'm down to my last replacement hanger and I thought I would try to get a third party one to see if it could hold up little longer. I think both Hong Fu and Deng Fu use a similar hanger design. What "real" brands use similar design? Has somebody figured out some other sources for the hangers other than the manufacturers as the shipping from China is expensive? The ones from Wheels Manufacturing (model 61) and Pilo (models D211/D259) look bit similar. Or should I stop searching online and just head to my LBS?
> 
> __________________


I believe the hangers are specific to your frame.


----------



## henknoordermeer

ptsbike55 said:


> I believe the hangers are specific to your frame.


Probably you can order it from a standard catalogue at your LBS if you take the example with you. Mine has a catalogue with shapes of hangers for comparison. I would assume/hope that the Chinese use one of the 'standard' hangers in their frames.

Good luck.


----------



## blend76

henknoordermeer said:


> Probably you can order it from a standard catalogue at your LBS if you take the example with you. Mine has a catalogue with shapes of hangers for comparison. I would assume/hope that the Chinese use one of the 'standard' hangers in their frames.
> 
> Good luck.


Thanks, 
I wound up ordering some of these crappy Chinese ones from a_baygoods (connection to Flyxii?) on eBay just so I don't miss out the sportive at the end of the month. I will report back on the fit to my fm015, but the hunt is still on for some better ones.


----------



## PixelPaul

Not trying to hijack the thread, but is there anywhere similar to get generic aluminum frames instead of carbon fiber? I'm having difficulty locating some.


----------



## zender

henknoordermeer said:


> Probably you can order it from a standard catalogue at your LBS if you take the example with you. Mine has a catalogue with shapes of hangers for comparison. I would assume/hope that the Chinese use one of the 'standard' hangers in their frames.
> 
> Good luck.


You can always check here if you need a new hanger:
All Derailleur Hangers

I wonder about what this place really is. What is mean is, is this a metal shop from which all the mainstream manufacturers source their hangers? Then they also sell direct to the consumer. A can't imagine any other business model working, like let's buy one of every hanger ever made for every bike out there, then reverse engineer, forge or cast them just in case someone orders one some day. Makes me wonder.


----------



## adam_mac84

*3k mile China Frame review*

Well, I have my 3000 mile FM028 review. Got this bike last year as my first carbon road bike. The bike rides really nice... plenty fast and very stiff bottom bracket, really pushes when you get on the pedals.

Well, I improved a ton on that bike... helped me train for CX last year, and now I am beginning my RR season now. After a couple of hard team rides, a road race, and a 1.8 mile loop circuit race, I have a good view of it's race side.

This is not a race bike. I never noticed when solo training last year (no team), how sloppy the front end was. I never picked up on the torsional lack of stiffness in a 30mph sweeping curve, and on a 40mph descent in a breakaway.

Riding other bikes that are a bit more 'race' oriented (specifically the Fuji SST and the like). I notice the differences in the handling (same wheelset).

As a solo breakaway bike, feels very good, drives well. On a century, it'd be a great bike. Mild group rides (speeds under 25mph without attacks and a need for quick, snappy maneuvers), great ride! For racing, I will be looking elsewhere.


Cliffs notes: FM028 is a great bike for the price, until you push it to it's limit in a race

My thoughts FWIW


Edit: I will add, i am 6'3 on the 60cm, weigh 190lbs, and am not a good sprinter... if I were to ever get away, it'd be in a TTT style group


----------



## adam_mac84

china frame


----------



## PixelPaul

What's a FM028?


----------



## vrgz26_b

Hi! I've been backreading this thread and found the conversation very informative. i would appreciate a response from those of you who have purchased the frame and fork and brought them into the US. Did you have to pay import duties and taxes? If yes, how much? Which do you think is the best way to ship -- post , EMS of courier like UPS/Fedex/DHL?

Thanks in advance.

[Please post pics of your rides. Thanks again!]


----------



## LC

I have no experience with any of the China frames but I found the same thing with many frames, even a nice titanium one. Racing a bike in a crit is a whole lot different then riding a bike.


----------



## vrgz26_b

*Wholesale Pinarello Dogma 60.1*

I would also appreciate your feedback on what you think of this bike? Thanks again.


www .aliexpress.com/product-fm/507932015-Wholesale-PINARELLO-DOGMA-60-1-full-carbon-road-bike-frame-bicycle-frame-road-bike-frame-1-wholesalers


----------



## Dajianshan

I know some folks who have a branded version of the FM028 and they love it for crits, climbs and races.... not long distance.


----------



## mrcreosote

adam_mac84 said:


> Edit: I will add, i am 6'3 on the 60cm, weigh 190lbs


Wonder if the frame size might have something to do with it? The larger you go, the harder it is to contain the torsional forces. Not to say it can't be done, but you will notice it more on a larger frame than on a more compact version of the same frame.

Plus, IIRC the FM028 is not quite as aggressive as say FM015 - more like the 'Roubaix' rather than the 'Tarmac'

just my AU1.95 cents worth


----------



## mrcreosote

PixelPaul said:


> What's a FM028?


http://dengfubikes.com/product.asp?id=2&classid=21


----------



## kip.duff

*FM039 vs FM098*

Noticed on the other forum that there were multiple FM098 (DengFu) purchases. I'm thinking of getting an FM039 (eHongFu)- I prefer the look of the 039- and DengFu is hard to get a hold of- probably busy with group buys. Was hoping to get some opinions on these two models- am I missing something? Thanks, Kip...........


----------



## timsen

*098 vs 039*



kip.duff said:


> Noticed on the other forum that there were multiple FM098 (DengFu) purchases. I'm thinking of getting an FM039 (eHongFu)- I prefer the look of the 039- and DengFu is hard to get a hold of- probably busy with group buys. Was hoping to get some opinions on these two models- am I missing something? Thanks, Kip...........


Well, the 039 is much cheaper. When I ordered my 039 I received it within one week after payment. Compared to the 098 it's very fast because I've seen guys waiting for months now at their 098.
Also the 098 have problems with a slipping seat post. My 039 did also have the same problem. But now I have solve this. 

My suggestion is to buy a ISP version of the frame.


----------



## zigmeister

timsen said:


> Well, the 039 is much cheaper. When I ordered my 039 I received it within one week after payment. Compared to the 098 it's very fast because I've seen guys waiting for months now at their 098.
> Also the 098 have problems with a slipping seat post. My 039 did also have the same problem. But now I have solve this.
> 
> My suggestion is to buy a ISP version of the frame.


Some guys in the last FM098 Group buy have received their frames already if they ordered just a plain matte 3k finish. That was just over a week ago. The rest of us that did paint or something, are going to have to wait another week or two. But still, this group buy seems like it should go much faster and people should receive their frames without delay, except the normal stuff, like painting, if you ordered it. 

The group buy price is pretty aggressive for the FM098. 

Head over to that other forum if you want more info.

This post is really just about the time to prep/ship the frames once ordered. The first/second GBs on the FM098 took awhile, but I think Paul and Dengfu have the process down much better now, especially since it is after Chinese New Year. The other buys were still playing catchup from that annual thing, which definitely slowed delivery.


----------



## gpcyclist25

As a quick aside, I was at a bike show yesterday where I hung out with one of the Shimano reps for a good 20 minutes or so.

They were demo'ing Ultegra Di2, which I have to admit, is pretty slick. What was more interesting was that they were demo'ing them on, according to him, Scott Foil frames that they painted in a generic color scheme. I almost joked that they probably bought the 098, which wouldn't have been entirely out of bounds since we had a wide-ranging conversation about the state of the bike industry, manufacturing, etc.

Interesting guy. He may very well have been blowing smoke, but he's of the opinion, having ridden prototypes, etc., that 2014 will be a very interesting model year. Things like the inevitability of increasing hub/dropout widths to accommodate discs and more cogs are being planned, as well as apparently changes to the front hub, for some kind of undescribed aero reason. Also, that 12 speeds is on the near-term horizon. And to some extent, this makes sense - once you start widening the rear dropouts to 135 or wider, you've got room. And I strongly suspect that 12 would seriously goose the sales of electronic shifting, although they apparently no need for goosing, as thinner chains and cogs are probably best served by some kind of self-adjusting electronic mechanism.

Fun conversation.


----------



## kip.duff

Timsen or anyone:

I need clarification please- because of language barrier, I'm still not clear on this.

question 1: what do the manufacturers mean by "UD"? I thought that meant matte. I would prefer matte finish, and I am being told that they have FM039 UD in stock, but it will take about two weeks to paint it matte. If I accept gloss, they can ship right away. 

question 2: if someone wants matte finish, wouldn't it be better to order it scratch built that way, assuming you can handle the long wait? The reason I say that is this- it sounds like the process is something along these lines: bikes that are made for stock are automatically painted glossy. If someone orders from stock and wants matte finish, the company then sprays the matte coat over the gloss, maybe having to sand the gloss first. I'm guessing that if you order a matte finish bike built from scratch, they spray the matte coat directly over the virgin carbon. This way there may be less chance of blemishes and flaws- just a more direct process with less steps.

question 3) Timsen: in the pictures you posted, your bike appears to be matte. However, you said that it took something like a week between purchasing and receiving. Does that mean that at the time of ordering, they had a matte finish bike in stock in the size and style you wanted and were able to ship right away?

zigmeister: before I ordered an FM039, I just wanted to know if there was a consensus opinion on the issue of 039 vs 098 quality wise- seem pretty close to me. As I said, my preference is cosmetic- I prefer the look of the 039. I guess I should consider participating in the GB if the current one is still open- I will check it out, and see if I can get price info. 

Thanks, Kip................


----------



## JackDaniels

I'm going to go look at a Colnago CLX 2.0 frame someone is selling. Is any China manufacturer making replicas of these frames? If so, are they easy to spot the difference?


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

kip.duff said:


> ...
> question 1: what do the manufacturers mean by "UD"? I thought that meant matte. I would prefer matte finish, and I am being told that they have FM039 UD in stock, but it will take about two weeks to paint it matte ...


UD - uni directional, which looks matte but is not painted.


----------



## zigmeister

kip.duff said:


> zigmeister: before I ordered an FM039, I just wanted to know if there was a consensus opinion on the issue of 039 vs 098 quality wise- seem pretty close to me. As I said, my preference is cosmetic- I prefer the look of the 039. I guess I should consider participating in the GB if the current one is still open- I will check it out, and see if I can get price info.
> 
> Thanks, Kip................


I don't know anything about the 039, or even what it looks like.

The FM098 initially had some seatpost fitment issues and one or two other minor things several months back. But recently, everybody has reported those issues are resolved and the new frames/seatpost/forks etc..are all fine.


----------



## FTR

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> UD - uni directional, which looks matte but is not painted.


As Chinaman said UD is unidirectional.
It is not the usual cross hatch style weave that you will see.
It looks just like overlapping pieces.
It can be matte finished or gloss.


----------



## Bridgey

FTR said:


> As Chinaman said UD is unidirectional.
> It is not the usual cross hatch style weave that you will see.
> It looks just like overlapping pieces.
> It can be matte finished or gloss.


Usually comes in Gloss. Looks Fabulous. Much better than 3k or 12k.


----------



## FTR

Bridgey said:


> Usually comes in Gloss. Looks Fabulous. Much better than 3k or 12k.


Usually all of the Chinese frames come as gloss unless you specify and pay extra for Matte.


----------



## kip.duff

Bridgey said:


> Usually comes in Gloss. Looks Fabulous. Much better than 3k or 12k.


Thanks guys- I asked Jane to send me some pictures of that finish- looked good. I think I'm going to order the bike. It is 56cm and has BB30. I'm going to swap my Cannondale Si Hollowgram BB30 crankset from my CAAD7 into it- not really sure it's do-able: researching that now. I would have preferred the 54cm I think, but this will do. The steer tube may be a little high to achieve competitive or extreme handlebar drop, but I think it'll be fine (64 years old, and neck doesn't bend up that far!).


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

Anyone with a FM015 and a FK007 fork, will a 28mm tyre fit?
Thanks.


----------



## mastakilla

*Headset spacers question on my FM028*

I am running 4cm of spacers which as I understand it, is the maximum recommended. It is a good fit. My question is, is there any advantage to running a conical bottom spacer like the link below? Will that offer a better mechanical foot print (for lack of a better term) given my high stack height. Also, will that conical spacer sit flush/work well with the Necco Headset that I received with the frame?

CyclePro 20mm 1-1/8-in Conical Carbon Headset Spacer | eBay

Btw, its a matte 58cm FM028 full ultegra group and wheels. Really enjoying it.


----------



## ericTheHalf

I'm due for another cycling kit ,and I was thinking we need a "chinese carbon" kit. Any ideas what to put on it?


----------



## romelman

mastakilla - nice bike, you must be a tennis player too - gamma


----------



## 3Kcarbon

timsen said:


> Also the 098 have problems with a slipping seat post.


That was only with the first few. Not a problem any longer - mine came with perfect fit.


----------



## kip.duff

vrgz26_b said:


> Hi! I've been backreading this thread and found the conversation very informative. i would appreciate a response from those of you who have purchased the frame and fork and brought them into the US. Did you have to pay import duties and taxes? If yes, how much? Which do you think is the best way to ship -- post , EMS of courier like UPS/Fedex/DHL?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> [Please post pics of your rides. Thanks again!]


I've bought twice from China- Dengfu FM015 frame for my daughter and Dengfu 38mm carbon wheel set for my CAAD7. Both times there were no duty charges or taxes. Postal charges for frames around $85 now- just quoted that in an invoice for a Hongfu FM039 frame. Postal charge for wheels was $60. Also, I believe it's standard practice for these vendors to use PayPal and charge you the PayPal fee, which is somewhere around 3.8%, plus or minus. You could see if they take other payment forms- I haven't asked. I let them determine the shipping method. I have seen in a post (I think it was Rob81 with his recent FLXii 315 frame purchase) that there was a change in the traditional use of EMS to some other shipping mode, and it was fast. 

FWIW, the FM015 is awesome- the carbon clinchers had some problems. They were not true when I got them. Had them trued at Performance Bike for $30. 100 miles later, needed to be trued again. Hopefully, this is some sort of break-in or settling process that is now over with. There is also some pulsing in brake application- especially noticeable with SwisStop Yellow pads. I removed the SwisStops and installed the pads supplied with the wheels by DengFu, and it's a lot better.


----------



## 3Kcarbon

vrgz26_b said:


> Hi! I've been backreading this thread and found the conversation very informative. i would appreciate a response from those of you who have purchased the frame and fork and brought them into the US. Did you have to pay import duties and taxes? If yes, how much? Which do you think is the best way to ship -- post , EMS of courier like UPS/Fedex/DHL?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> [Please post pics of your rides. Thanks again!]


If you buy in bulk Lucky will make an effort to ship one carton at a time, which she says has a better chance of avoiding import duties by not raising a flag. Other than that I know of no case of being taxed. 
Leave shipping to the seller (they usually go with EMS).
Pics you can see on my website:


----------



## kip.duff

*Price questions*

Is it acceptable to discuss prices here? I'm getting ready to order an FM039, and wondered what others had been charged. I may be paying a little extra because it is the rush season for bikes- probably better to order in December. I'm happy with the price, but I'm still curious. I was considering Dengfu FM098 group buy 4, which is just starting on the other site, but I'm leaning towards the frame I found that is in stock- I'm impatient. The group buy price is quite good, and cheaper.


----------



## kip.duff

*BB30 install experiences/advise?*

I hope to remove my BB30 Cannondale Si Hollowgram crank and bearing set from my CAAD7 for use in an FM039. I'm assuming that the bike comes with a standard metal BB bore with the snap-ring grooves (and snap-rings) ready for installation of the two bearings. I'm having trouble finding a detailed picture in this thread of a Hongfu BB30 BB. (BTW, when moving around and searching in this thread, my computer is struggling, and it takes a lot of time. Don't know whether it's my computer or this thread) Can anyone tell me their BB30 install experiences with Hongfu? Advice?


----------



## blueapplepaste

Is the Dengfu site down for everyone else?


----------



## blueapplepaste

3Kcarbon said:


> Same here. Apparently down. Try later.


Does it normally go down a lot? Or just a fluke thing?


----------



## 3Kcarbon

blueapplepaste said:


> Is the Dengfu site down for everyone else?


Same here. Apparently down. Try later.


----------



## 3Kcarbon

blueapplepaste said:


> Does it normally go down a lot? Or just a fluke thing?


Not usually.


----------



## kip.duff

blueapplepaste said:


> Is the Dengfu site down for everyone else?


it's been VERY slow during the last few days for me............

Haven't tried recently.


----------



## beston

timsen said:


> Well, the 039 is much cheaper. When I ordered my 039 I received it within one week after payment. Compared to the 098 it's very fast because I've seen guys waiting for months now at their 098.
> Also the 098 have problems with a slipping seat post. My 039 did also have the same problem. But now I have solve this.
> 
> My suggestion is to buy a ISP version of the frame.


Well, I guess I got lucky with my FM098 order. I participated in the last round of group buys and went for a common frame size (54), BSA BB, and matte finish (3k weave is visible). I received the frame 13 days after payment. I certainly was expecting it to take longer, but I'll take what I get! I do know that others have had to wait longer - some of those people have opted for paint options and/or BB30 BBs and that simply takes longer.

The FM098 post issue was apparently fixed. After two days of riding (140km), I can say that I have had absolutely no issues with the post slipping or anything else. This seems to be a great frame! Handles well and I can't perceive any flex when climbing

I am a big fan of the internal cable routing on the FM098 bike. Simply slide the cable in and it comes out the other side! I've worked on many Cervelo (P2SL, P2, P3, P4) and Trek TTX bikes and they always make me cringe at the thought of re-cabling the bike. It's taken me a few years to learn the tricks of the trade, but it still takes time and patients to do it.

Here's my FM098 build. With the group buy it was $450 for frame/fork/post, $45 for matte clear coat (glossy clear doesn't cost extra), and $80 for shipping.

Here are some specs
Frame (with derailleur hangers) = 1104g
Fork (uncut) = 415g / Cut weight = 380g.
Seatpost = 209g 
Seatpost clamp = 31g

https://s557.photobucket.com/albums/ss12/bestonbr/FM098/


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

blueapplepaste said:


> Does it normally go down a lot? Or just a fluke thing?



The last time it was down, was in March I think.


----------



## kip.duff

*help with cable question!*

I want to have everything I need ready when my internal cable style frame arrives. Struggling with cable questions. Two questions:

1) I know the cables are routed thru the frame. I am assuming that the complete cable assembly (cable and housing) is fed thru the frame. Am I right? Is this the way it's designed? Is there a tube in the frame that the cable housing slides thru, or is the cable assy loose in the frame, pulled thru with a string installed at the factory? This design would require a lot more length of housing than other bikes I've set up, because with external cable routing, about 70% of the cable run uses no housing.

2) Looking at "Jagwire Racers" brake and shifter complete kits. Company website specs say housing for shifter is 1700mm, and housing for brake is 1700mm. I believe 1700mm of housing would just about be completely used up for the rear derailleur alone, leaving nothing for the FD. I think they would need to supply 2 lengths of 1700mm for shifters and 2 lengths of 1700mm for brakes for this kit to work for a "thru the frame" application.. Any one use these kits? Enough housing length? What have you guys used that works good and has enough housing? Looking for black housings.

Thanks, Kip...........


----------



## 3Kcarbon

kip.duff said:


> I want to have everything I need ready when my internal cable style frame arrives. Struggling with cable questions. Two questions:
> 
> 1) I know the cables are routed thru the frame. I am assuming that the complete cable assembly (cable and housing) is fed thru the frame. Am I right? Is this the way it's designed?


No, the cable only can be fed into the internal tube and will appear at the other end again. You will need only short outside housings.


----------



## beston

kip.duff said:


> 2) Looking at "Jagwire Racers" brake and shifter complete kits. Company website specs say housing for shifter is 1700mm, and housing for brake is 1700mm. I believe 1700mm of housing would just about be completely used up for the rear derailleur alone, leaving nothing for the FD. I think they would need to supply 2 lengths of 1700mm for shifters and 2 lengths of 1700mm for brakes for this kit to work for a "thru the frame" application.. Any one use these kits? Enough housing length? What have you guys used that works good and has enough housing? Looking for black housings.
> 
> Thanks, Kip...........


I bought 2m of brake and shifter housing and it was more than enough to get the job done. A lot more than 30cm left of each!


----------



## kip.duff

I get it. Curious to see how the cables make the turn at the bottom bracket.


----------



## beston

kip.duff said:


> I get it. Curious to see how the cables make the turn at the bottom bracket.


Only the FD cable runs outside the frame at the bb (on the fm098). You just need a short piece of housing (~10cm) to make the turn.


----------



## 3Kcarbon

kip.duff said:


> I get it. Curious to see how the cables make the turn at the bottom bracket.


It exits for a short distance and enters the chainstay for the last stretch before it comes out above the rear axle. There are good housing stops at each entry and exit point.


----------



## maxxevv

kip.duff said:


> I get it. Curious to see how the cables make the turn at the bottom bracket.


There are picts of it being done previously either on this or on Version 5.0 of the thread. Do a search and you'll find it.


----------



## PlatyPius

maxxevv said:


> There are picts


Several species of small furry animals gathered together in a cave and grooving with a Pict?

(obscure Pink Floyd reference...sorry.)


----------



## Tswifty

Hello my friend just posted a finished pic of his not Venge but look alike Venge xD
He said the steerer and seat tube need to be cut to dial in his position but its basically what it looks like. I edited out the stickers to hopefully not void the counterfeit rule.


----------



## maxxevv

PlatyPius said:


> Several species of small furry animals gathered together in a cave and grooving with a Pict?
> 
> (obscure Pink Floyd reference...sorry.)


Well, the humour (if its meant to be) isn't appreciated nor understood here ...


----------



## rwhsurf

Warning.... Topridetek Chinese integrated handle bars Beware.
I am regretting to write this, but thought I would give a major Alert to a Manufacturing defect.
I am dealing with a few broken ribs and heavy bruising. I will post images of the bars in the upcoming days when feeling better. 

Long story short.... bars broke at where stem connects to bars after a moderate bump in the road. From the photos my buddy sent me (took my bike in his wifes car as i went to hospital) it looks like weak point(bond)... I am truly lucky to walk away with only the injuries sustained.
Thanks


----------



## Crappymonkey

rwhsurf said:


> Warning.... Topridetek Chinese integrated handle bars Beware.
> I am regretting to write this, but thought I would give a major Alert to a Manufacturing defect.
> I am dealing with a few broken ribs and heavy bruising. I will post images of the bars in the upcoming days when feeling better.
> 
> Long story short.... bars broke at where stem connects to bars after a moderate bump in the road. From the photos my buddy sent me (took my bike in his wifes car as i went to hospital) it looks like weak point(bond)... I am truly lucky to walk away with only the injuries sustained.
> Thanks



That really sucks. Hope you feel better soon and thank you for the warning!


----------



## PlatyPius

maxxevv said:


> Well, the humour (if its meant to be) isn't appreciated nor understood here ...


Gee, there's a surprise.

Yes, it was supposed to be humour.


----------



## jordo_99

I'm starting to look into getting a saddle with carbon rails...looks like most of the saddles I'm considering come with 9x7mm carbon rails (Fizik and Specialized).

Does anyone have experience with using such a setup on the stock Chinese seat posts? I ordered two seat posts for my FM098 so I can have one dedicated to modifying for the 9x7mm carbon rails but I'm just curious if anyone has come across this yet.


----------



## MYMOJO34

maxxevv said:


> Well, the humour (if its meant to be) isn't appreciated nor understood here ...


I understood it.... and appreciated it.


----------



## TheBigYin

MYMOJO34 said:


> I understood it.... and appreciated it.


So did I - always appreciate a little Floyd - as long as its Pink and not Landis


----------



## PlatyPius

MYMOJO34 said:


> I understood it.... and appreciated it.





TheBigYin said:


> So did I - always appreciate a little Floyd - as long as its Pink and not Landis


Glad my word association abilities were appreciated by some.
It's one of my oddities...mention one word, such as "Pict", and I can rattle off a song title, lyric, or whatever. It's of no use whatsoever, except to amuse my customers, entertain people on forums, or annoy my employees who just wish I'd shut up.


----------



## castofone

For the Bonty style seat clamps (cones and side plates) you will have to buy the version for carbon seat rails from Bontrager.


----------



## paul6671paul

*How to buy carbon frame from china tiwan*

Hi every body new to this site but looking into buying a carbon frame from china or tiwan, has anybody had any experience in buying any frames ?? if so could anyone send me any info. cheers 

paul6671paul


----------



## bigbill

paul6671paul said:


> Hi every body new to this site but looking into buying a carbon frame from china or tiwan, has anybody had any experience in buying any frames ?? if so could anyone send me any info. cheers
> 
> paul6671paul


There's sticky at the top of the forum about buying frames from China. Neuvation frames come from Taiwan and the owner has a great reputation for customer service.


----------



## pmf

bigbill said:


> There's sticky at the top of the forum about buying frames from China. Neuvation frames come from Taiwan and the owner has a great reputation for customer service.


I don't own a Neuvation bike, but I do own several sets of their wheels. I think they're nice wheels -- especially for the price. They have excellent customer service. I've heard that their high end carbon frame is made by Trigon in Taiwan. The company supposedly makes high end frames for other bike companies as well. They look like a hell of a good deal to me.


----------



## jordo_99

castofone said:


> For the Bonty style seat clamps (cones and side plates) you will have to buy the version for carbon seat rails from Bontrager.


Thanks, I'd gotten a few similarly encouraging answers from the "other forum" as well. Looks like I'll be going carbon rails for the first time along with a full-carbon frame XD.


----------



## PixelPaul

paul6671paul said:


> Hi every body new to this site but looking into buying a carbon frame from china or tiwan


Walk into your LBS and buy any bike off the rack. The probability is very high it is from China or Taiwan.


----------



## CabDoctor

I was wondering if anyone knew whether the Cipollini RB1000 was an open mold frame?


----------



## timsen

kip.duff said:


> Timsen or anyone:
> 
> I need clarification please- because of language barrier, I'm still not clear on this.
> 
> question 1: what do the manufacturers mean by "UD"? I thought that meant matte. I would prefer matte finish, and I am being told that they have FM039 UD in stock, but it will take about two weeks to paint it matte. If I accept gloss, they can ship right away.
> 
> question 2: if someone wants matte finish, wouldn't it be better to order it scratch built that way, assuming you can handle the long wait? The reason I say that is this- it sounds like the process is something along these lines: bikes that are made for stock are automatically painted glossy. If someone orders from stock and wants matte finish, the company then sprays the matte coat over the gloss, maybe having to sand the gloss first. I'm guessing that if you order a matte finish bike built from scratch, they spray the matte coat directly over the virgin carbon. This way there may be less chance of blemishes and flaws- just a more direct process with less steps.
> 
> question 3) Timsen: in the pictures you posted, your bike appears to be matte. However, you said that it took something like a week between purchasing and receiving. Does that mean that at the time of ordering, they had a matte finish bike in stock in the size and style you wanted and were able to ship right away?
> 
> zigmeister: before I ordered an FM039, I just wanted to know if there was a consensus opinion on the issue of 039 vs 098 quality wise- seem pretty close to me. As I said, my preference is cosmetic- I prefer the look of the 039. I guess I should consider participating in the GB if the current one is still open- I will check it out, and see if I can get price info.
> 
> Thanks, Kip................


Sorry for the late reply. 

Yes my frames was in stock in the 3K matt finish. I payed on Thursday and received the frame on Thuesday.
UD is a carbon structure, the Edco wheels have this structure. Edco carbon bicycle race rims wheels hubs - EDCO Engineering BV


----------



## stuart1976

rwhsurf said:


> Warning.... Topridetek Chinese integrated handle bars Beware.
> I am regretting to write this, but thought I would give a major Alert to a Manufacturing defect.
> I am dealing with a few broken ribs and heavy bruising. I will post images of the bars in the upcoming days when feeling better.
> 
> Long story short.... bars broke at where stem connects to bars after a moderate bump in the road. From the photos my buddy sent me (took my bike in his wifes car as i went to hospital) it looks like weak point(bond)... I am truly lucky to walk away with only the injuries sustained.
> Thanks


Hi rwhsurf, Ooi which bars were they?


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

CabDoctor said:


> I was wondering if anyone knew whether the Cipollini RB1000 was an open mold frame?


Chippo's frames R realy made in Italy ... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2CjJqFdBdM


----------



## orlin03

*About to order two FM018 frames*

Whew! Okay, I'm in the final stages of ordering a pair of FM018's for me and my wife, size 54 and 52. I've read about as much as I could about these in multiple threads (too bad different frames didn't get their own thread) and exhausted my eyes and the search button picking up info. I've seen some beautiful bikes, read some great tips, and also had the opportunity to talk to two owners a few weeks ago at the duathlon nationals who had great things to say about the frames. 

So (please don't say "do a search" :cryin before I order, does anyone have any last minute advice or recommendations for me? I'm ordering them through Dengfu. 12k weave, non-integrated seatpost (for ease of travel), and BB30 (since the whole reason I'm upgrading my frame is to get more stiffness in the BB than my current aluminum Leader 735TT). Are these options good? I'm also still a bit unclear as to what brakes are currently the best route for these bikes, since many were discussed.


----------



## Teo

After nearly 60 days since I placed my order, my frame is finally shipped. Or at least I think it's been shipped. I recieved a tracking number today but the EMS website doesn't recognize it. I guess I'll wait a little longer and check again later.
I'm hoping the frame looks good when I get it and don't have any problems with it, cause this wait was way too long. It took even longer then the special ordered car for my wife!


----------



## Tswifty

orlin03 said:


> Whew! Okay, I'm in the final stages of ordering a pair of FM018's for me and my wife, size 54 and 52. I've read about as much as I could about these in multiple threads (too bad different frames didn't get their own thread) and exhausted my eyes and the search button picking up info. I've seen some beautiful bikes, read some great tips, and also had the opportunity to talk to two owners a few weeks ago at the duathlon nationals who had great things to say about the frames.
> 
> So (please don't say "do a search" :cryin before I order, does anyone have any last minute advice or recommendations for me? I'm ordering them through Dengfu. 12k weave, non-integrated seatpost (for ease of travel), and BB30 (since the whole reason I'm upgrading my frame is to get more stiffness in the BB than my current aluminum Leader 735TT). Are these options good? I'm also still a bit unclear as to what brakes are currently the best route for these bikes, since many were discussed.


I hear that you can order some TRP brakes with them from Dengfu but ive also heard they are less then ideal at braking sometimes might just be the people though. You could always get the new Dengfu FM069 has centre pull brakes i think and looks the part...though its a bit costly at 1200 i think it was $910 with a order of 6 or more. So ive been told that is.


----------



## zender

orlin03 said:


> Whew! Okay, I'm in the final stages of ordering a pair of FM018's for me and my wife, size 54 and 52. I've read about as much as I could about these in multiple threads (too bad different frames didn't get their own thread) and exhausted my eyes and the search button picking up info. I've seen some beautiful bikes, read some great tips, and also had the opportunity to talk to two owners a few weeks ago at the duathlon nationals who had great things to say about the frames.
> 
> So (please don't say "do a search" :cryin before I order, does anyone have any last minute advice or recommendations for me? I'm ordering them through Dengfu. 12k weave, non-integrated seatpost (for ease of travel), and BB30 (since the whole reason I'm upgrading my frame is to get more stiffness in the BB than my current aluminum Leader 735TT). Are these options good? I'm also still a bit unclear as to what brakes are currently the best route for these bikes, since many were discussed.


Unless you two will only be riding pool-table flat TT's on those bikes, I would forego the brake that Dengfu sells with them. They are barely functional and if your riding involves amy significant descending, I think they're unsafe.

I went with the Simkins egg brake for the rear. It's not cheap, and still is not crazy powerful in the location on this frame, but at least will lock up the rear tire. I do think it comes in blue ano, so it would at least look cool on those frames. My setup is a standard BB with external cups, however. The only question I have with the egg brake and BB30, is with the narrower Q-factor of BB30, will this bring your inner chainring even closer to the frame and interfere with the brake (the egg brake is still side pull just very narrow). If that's the case, you're stuck with a center pull brake and unfortunately this frame has no cable stop below the BB like it should for a center pull.


----------



## farrenator

*FM 015 review after 1 month*

This is a totally unsolicited review of the FM 015 I bought from Jenny at Hongfu. It took me about a year to pull the trigger but finally did about two months ago. I ordered the frame, fork, headset, seatpost and seatpost clamp. It arrived 7 days later to the East Coast of USA in very good condition. I was very impressed. The quality of the frame was very good for the price. I had to lightly sand the inside of the seat tube portion of the frame and the seat tube in order to get it to slide (it was a little tight), but that was easy. I also had to slightly (and I mean slightly) sand the top part of the headtube where the top bearing fit into the race. Again, VERY easy.

I outfitted the bike with new Shimano 105 components and I have been riding it for about 1 month. It is light, responsive, stiff. No flexing on the uphills and feels very solid on descents. I mainly use it as a commuter (18 mile, round trip through the city) but I also take it on longer weekend rides. My back gets fatigued on the longer rides but that is due to the geometry of the frame and the fact that I am closer to 40 than 30. 

All in all, I am very happy with the purchase and would do it again.


----------



## zigmeister

BlackDoggystyle said:


> Chippo's frames R realy made in Italy ...
> 
> Cipollini 2011 bike range release DVD Leak - YouTube


What a stud that Cippolini is. Never wears a helmet either, and hair never moves...amazing.


----------



## twin001

Tswifty said:


> Hello my friend just posted a finished pic of his not Venge but look alike Venge xD
> He said the steerer and seat tube need to be cut to dial in his position but its basically what it looks like. I edited out the stickers to hopefully not void the counterfeit rule.


More info please! Looks great. What frame and wheels are those and what vendor did he get them from?


----------



## MYMOJO34

twin001 said:


> More info please! Looks great. What frame and wheels are those and what vendor did he get them from?


Its a Deng Fu FM098.


----------



## Tswifty

twin001 said:


> More info please! Looks great. What frame and wheels are those and what vendor did he get them from?


Like stated above the Frame is a Dengfu FM098 in Matte Black
Wheels are 60mm Tubulars from Helin Lui
Stickers for the Venge Mclaren stuff are from that Marco Pollo guy?


----------



## The_Maraquis_of_Carabas

castofone said:


> For the Bonty style seat clamps (cones and side plates) you will have to buy the version for carbon seat rails from Bontrager.


i got this kit and it didn't work with my FM039 seat post. The parts that are tapered don't match the parts that come with the bike. Maybe I was just unlucky. I just used the exisitng Hongfu tapered parts that fit into the seatpost and just got the bonty ears.


----------



## Reeve

The_Maraquis_of_Carabas said:


> i got this kit and it didn't work with my FM039 seat post. The parts that are tapered don't match the parts that come with the bike. Maybe I was just unlucky. I just used the exisitng Hongfu tapered parts that fit into the seatpost and just got the bonty ears.


the fm098 seatpost's tapered parts does not fit carbon rails even with bonty ears. I managed to get a cheap bonty seatpost and transferred the tapered parts over. fits well.


----------



## Mikke:)

Have someone been in contact with Miracle Trade (Jack Chen) lately?
I have sent them four e-mails the last month, but I have not received any answers. Before I used to get an answer the next day or so. 
I ordered and paid my frame in december 2011 (!), so I start to get a litte frustrated.


----------



## orlin03

Tswifty said:


> I hear that you can order some TRP brakes with them from Dengfu but ive also heard they are less then ideal at braking sometimes might just be the people though. You could always get the new Dengfu FM069 has centre pull brakes i think and looks the part...though its a bit costly at 1200 i think it was $910 with a order of 6 or more. So ive been told that is.


Thanks. The FM069 looks great, but I'm getting two 018s for that price. Also, my favorite thing about the 108 is the vertical seat tube; as I get higher, the angle increases, which is good because my fit will give a high seat & I'm looking for an effective angle greater than advertised.



zender said:


> Unless you two will only be riding pool-table flat TT's on those bikes, I would forego the brake that Dengfu sells with them. They are barely functional and if your riding involves amy significant descending, I think they're unsafe.
> 
> I went with the Simkins egg brake for the rear. It's not cheap, and still is not crazy powerful in the location on this frame, but at least will lock up the rear tire. I do think it comes in blue ano, so it would at least look cool on those frames. My setup is a standard BB with external cups, however. The only question I have with the egg brake and BB30, is with the narrower Q-factor of BB30, will this bring your inner chainring even closer to the frame and interfere with the brake (the egg brake is still side pull just very narrow). If that's the case, you're stuck with a center pull brake and unfortunately this frame has no cable stop below the BB like it should for a center pull.


I do excell at hills and ride them often. Thanks for the tip! The brakes look very cool. I may have to measure closely & fit a few models if I can to see what works.


----------



## zigmeister

Mikke:) said:


> Have someone been in contact with Miracle Trade (Jack Chen) lately?
> I have sent them four e-mails the last month, but I have not received any answers. Before I used to get an answer the next day or so.
> I ordered and paid my frame in december 2011 (!), so I start to get a litte frustrated.


What? I know this is right before Chinese New Year. But I ordered a MC053 frame in mid February, received in about 2 weeks later.

I assume you paid via Paypal and sent payment to the correct people?

If so, just file a dispute with Paypal and get your money back. No reason it should take 5 months to get a frame.


----------



## The_Maraquis_of_Carabas

Anyone know what the FM098 is going for (frame and fork) at the moment. A friend wants me to build one. Have emailed DongFu but just in case they don't get back quickly I'd like to get a price from an ex-buyer. I was just in a bike shop and it resembles a Specialized Sworks to me.


----------



## The_Maraquis_of_Carabas

Can anyone tell me how much is the FM098 (frame and fork) from Dengfu? Also, rough price for paintwork or does it depend on complexity? I've emailed them but just in case they are slow in coming back it would be nice to know.


----------



## Seneb

zigmeister said:


> If so, just file a dispute with Paypal and get your money back. No reason it should take 5 months to get a frame.


I believe the time limit for a dispute is 45 days from the date of payment. 

I really hope this works out for you, Mikke


----------



## jordo_99

The_Maraquis_of_Carabas said:


> Can anyone tell me how much is the FM098 (frame and fork) from Dengfu? Also, rough price for paintwork or does it depend on complexity? I've emailed them but just in case they are slow in coming back it would be nice to know.


$680 for the frame. Shiping is $80, also add 4% if you want to use paypal and most paint is $60. (close to $850 total)

There is a group buy (4th one for FM098) on "the other forum" where price is significantly dropped but it takes longer it takes 30-60 days instead of a 7-14 days to get your items.

I got in on one of the group buys and my total cost is barely over $800 shipped:

Frameset (painted similar to a Venge)
spare seatpost (pay extra)
x2 headset (1 spare)
carbon stem
carbon handlebars
bottle cages
x1 rear hangers (spare)
x1 front hanger (spare)


----------



## j4son

been trying to get in touch with someone @ dengfu regarding the FM 069 TT frame. Anyone hear from them recently?


----------



## orlin03

j4son said:


> been trying to get in touch with someone @ dengfu regarding the FM 069 TT frame. Anyone hear from them recently?


I've been in contact with Martina Ding [email protected] daily. She gets right back and is easy to communicate with.


----------



## j4son

orlin03 said:


> I've been in contact with Martina Ding <[email protected]> daily. She gets right back and is easy to communicate with.


you mind sending me her contact info?

Thanks


----------



## svard75

*Cyclingyong aka Dongguan Huashun Bicycle Parts Sales Department*

I recently purchased what I thought were the FSA K-Wing compact handlebars from Cyclingyong's alibaba website. They arrived today and here is my assessment of them.

The packaging was poor IMO. Arrived in a large plastic bag wrapped with tape. The bars themselves were wrapped twice in a thick foam wrap and there was no visible damage. The website displayed an image of the real FSA K-Wing Compact handlebars, however what arrived was a poor replica. 

The paint job was not correct.

The holes for the internal cable routing were not correctly done. They simply drilled two holes near the shifter mounts and a larger oblong hole near the stem clamp. There is no true internal cable routing and I can imagine the trouble you would be going through to get the cable housing routed through them. Not just that but the holes are not angled so the cable housing will either be pinched so it's flat under the bar tape or you'll have to have them stick out a bit. 

Besides the misleading information on their alibaba website the quality of the handlebars seems to be suspicious. When looking at the bar ends I noticed an extreme variance in the thickness of the carbon layup. A closer look through the holes for the cable routing revealed quite a different thickness than at the bar ends (About twice as thick at the holes vs the bar ends).

The stem mounting area and the shifter clamp areas have a gritty surface to it for better friction during installation so that's a positive thing I can say about these handlebars.

During the initial communications and ordering process I had asked for photos which they failed to produce but said it looks exactly like what's listed on their website. This information is incorrect so be aware of this.

At this time I am not certain of what I want to do. I really despise that old school ergo bend these stupid Chinese HB's have but at the same time I spent $140USD on them including shipping so what should I do?

<table style="width:194px;"><tr><td align="center" style="height:194px;background:url(https://picasaweb.google.com/s/c/transparent_album_background.gif) no-repeat left"><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/105099584504060580911/DropBox?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCMyWnIC74KqoIQ&feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-26_dtI41jUo/T6xW9tNsrME/AAAAAAAAAC4/5cjEqObiW_E/s160-c/DropBox.jpg" width="160" height="160" style="margin:1px 0 0 4px;"></a></td></tr><tr><td style="text-align:center;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:11px"><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/105099584504060580911/DropBox?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCMyWnIC74KqoIQ&feat=embedwebsite" style="color:#4D4D4D;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none;">Drop Box</a></td></tr></table>


----------



## redmr2_man

I'm sorry it didn't work out for you...but ouch, what made you spend 140$ on knockoff kwings? You can find slightly used kwings for half that...and new for about twenty bucks more if you shop around.

I'd return them or ask for a refund/partial refund. Have you tried contacting them yet?


----------



## romelman

*fm028 road bike*

here is my completed bike:



http://http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7175331810/in/photostream


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

redmr2_man said:


> ... sorry it didn't work out for you ...


+1

All you can do is try to get a refund from them ... 

... I get most of my new components from CRC and some new & used 'brand' components from ebay, from the UK and maybe from US and Europe if the postage is cheap and original pictures sighted. Very easy to get sucked in from a price point but I would only stick to open mold stuff from the Far East. Taiwan or HK ok if they have pictures (not generic) of the components.

I do feel your frustration ... Hope things work out for you ...


----------



## svard75

redmr2_man said:


> I'm sorry it didn't work out for you...but ouch, what made you spend 140$ on knockoff kwings? You can find slightly used kwings for half that...and new for about twenty bucks more if you shop around.
> 
> I'd return them or ask for a refund/partial refund. Have you tried contacting them yet?


My dillema is i need internal cable routing and would also like compact. The only bars i could find are the fsa k wing. Prices for the real deal are 300+.

You know what makes it even more frustrating? Ive emailed cyclingyong and they sent me this.

dear friend , our FSA K-wing handleb ar is like this link :http://cyclingyong.en.alibaba.com/p...ebar_hot_sell_.html?tracelog=cgsotherproduct1 and our product is same the link of picture . waiting for your reply thanks jennifer

So even after my complaint and paypal dispute they are still telling me this is what was sent.

I think i will return them.


----------



## crockpot2001

*60cm TT FM015 style blank frame (NOT integrated post)*

I'm having a heck of a time finding a frame with a TT near 60cm. I'm seeing a lot of stuff in the 56-57 TT range but coming up empty for any larger. I'm 6'4". 

I know Google is our friend but I don't have a shovel big enough to dig though the data. 

Thanks!

Crockpot


----------



## jonoir

*FM039 Build Questions*

I have been unable to get into 5.0 for a while now so am haveing to post this here as the build starts in earnest this weekend. 

I’ve attached pics but have a couple of questions to get the ball rolling sorry about the quality and if you need more details please let me know. 

So the questions
1.	How do you run/guide the f/derailleur cable under the bottom bracket (I have seen an image somewhere of someone using a cable outer but seem to remember that where the cable came out before the bb the hole was big enough to accommodate the start of the outer cable. On my fm039 there seems to be only enough of a hole to accommodate the cable. 
If anyone has an fm039 and could take some pics of their cable routing around the bb and into the derailleur I would be so grateful.
2.	I have been supplied with a Neco headset – (pretty standard I think from hong-fu) – when you cut the steerer how much below the top of the stem should you take off in order to aid the compression process??

Build starts this weekend – wish me luck – I’ll keep you all posted.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

jonoir said:


> ... when you cut the steerer how much below the top of the stem should you take off in order to aid the compression process?? ...


I would much prefer the stem clamp area to be covered by the steerer.

I would use some spacers on top. Just to be sure. About 10mm on top, then the steerer can actually go right up to the stem and beyond.

I think it is recommended that the steerer comes up to about 2-3mm below the top cap, so if you use a 10mm spacer on top then the steerer will just come up to 7-8mm from the top of the spacer. What is important is that the top cap do not come into contact with steerer at all.

That is what I use on my MTB with an alloy steerer and so with a carbon steerer, I think it is even more important that the steerer goes beyond the stem. 

Recommendation by Easton ...

View attachment 256817


----------



## csneom4a1

I saw this asked in an earlier version of this thread, but cannot find if it was answered.

I left my FM015 bike at work and can't take it with me to the shop, and I need barrel adjusters for under the down tube. Is there a certain size of barrel adjuster I need or are they all standard?


----------



## ptsbike55

> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by jonoir
> 
> ... when you cut the steerer how much below the top of the stem should you take off in order to aid the compression process?? ...
> 
> I would much prefer the stem clamp area to be covered by the steerer.
> 
> I would use some spacers on top. Just to be sure. About 10mm on top, then the steerer can actually go right up to the stem and beyond.
> 
> I think it is recommended that the steerer comes up to about 2-3mm below the top cap, so if you use a 10mm spacer on top then the steerer will just come up to 7-8mm from the top of the spacer. What is important is that the top cap do not come into contact with steerer at all.
> 
> That is what I use on my MTB with an alloy steerer and so with a carbon steerer, I think it is even more important that the steerer goes beyond the stem.
> 
> Recommendation by Easton ...


Depends on who you talk to. Specialized says DO NOT have any spacers above the stem.


----------



## Seneb

ptsbike55 said:


> Depends on who you talk to. Specialized says DO NOT have any spacers above the stem.


Yup. All mechanics I have talked with about this like to have a spacer above the stem. It really makes sense if you think about it. All the clamp force from the stem is on the steer tube rather than mostly on the steer tube. I've never seen it happen, but I have a paranoia about the top of the steer tube getting crushed.


----------



## The_Maraquis_of_Carabas

jonoir said:


> I have been unable to get into 5.0 for a while now so am haveing to post this here as the build starts in earnest this weekend.
> 
> I’ve attached pics but have a couple of questions to get the ball rolling sorry about the quality and if you need more details please let me know.
> 
> So the questions
> 1.	How do you run/guide the f/derailleur cable under the bottom bracket (I have seen an image somewhere of someone using a cable outer but seem to remember that where the cable came out before the bb the hole was big enough to accommodate the start of the outer cable. On my fm039 there seems to be only enough of a hole to accommodate the cable.
> If anyone has an fm039 and could take some pics of their cable routing around the bb and into the derailleur I would be so grateful.
> 2.	I have been supplied with a Neco headset – (pretty standard I think from hong-fu) – when you cut the steerer how much below the top of the stem should you take off in order to aid the compression process??
> 
> Build starts this weekend – wish me luck – I’ll keep you all posted.


1. Took me a few minutes to understand what you meant but I can confirm that it's only the shifting wire that exits the hole near the BB. See attached pics. Best of luck with the build. Should be straightforward. Only problem I had on my 2nd build was on the Shimano caliper rear break sunken nut hole (had to look that description on CRC) which was a very very tight fit and there was no space to ream it out. Was lucky to eventually get it in.



















2. I will have a look at this shortly (looking after kids here - not conducive to looking at bikes) but I think I went 2mm below the top of the stem. I used a ControlTech carbon stemp cap as per Controltech Comp Carbon Stem Cap | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com and it fits a gem.
I don't have an allen key to remove the cap at the moment and am not home til next week to have a look but I'm almost 100% I went 2mm below top of stem. But you should go now lower than this (and some will say you shouldn't even go below top of stem) or you risk crushing the steerer.


----------



## The_Maraquis_of_Carabas

svard75 said:


> My dillema is i need internal cable routing and would also like compact. The only bars i could find are the fsa k wing. Prices for the real deal are 300+.
> 
> You know what makes it even more frustrating? Ive emailed cyclingyong and they sent me this.
> 
> dear friend , our FSA K-wing handleb ar is like this link :2012 FSA K-Wing Compact Handlebar hot sell! - Detailed info for 2012 FSA K-Wing Compact Handlebar hot sell!,fas handlebar,2012 FSA K-Wing Compact Handlebar hot sell!,K-Wing on Alibaba.com and our product is same the link of picture . waiting for your reply thanks jennifer
> 
> So even after my complaint and paypal dispute they are still telling me this is what was sent.
> 
> I think i will return them.


i think companies like these should be flagged, think i read a few pages back of a cracked framr twice with same company.


----------



## zigmeister

The_Maraquis_of_Carabas said:


> i think companies like these should be flagged, think i read a few pages back of a cracked framr twice with same company.


I was going to post the same thing. cyclingyong or whatever their name is, reputation is garbage these days. I would be careful with them for sure.


----------



## The_Maraquis_of_Carabas

Here are a few pics of my last FM039 build.


----------



## jonoir

The_Maraquis_of_Carabas said:


> 1. Took me a few minutes to understand what you meant but I can confirm that it's only the shifting wire that exits the hole near the BB. See attached pics. Best of luck with the build. Should be straightforward. Only problem I had on my 2nd build was on the Shimano caliper rear break sunken nut hole (had to look that description on CRC) which was a very very tight fit and there was no space to ream it out. Was lucky to eventually get it in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. I will have a look at this shortly (looking after kids here - not conducive to looking at bikes) but I think I went 2mm below the top of the stem. I used a ControlTech carbon stemp cap as per Controltech Comp Carbon Stem Cap | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com and it fits a gem.
> I don't have an allen key to remove the cap at the moment and am not home til next week to have a look but I'm almost 100% I went 2mm below top of stem. But you should go now lower than this (and some will say you shouldn't even go below top of stem) or you risk crushing the steerer.


Maraquis thank you so much for the images - and for highlighting my stupidity. There is a hole at the bottom of the underside of the down tube - I had thought this was where the front dérailleur cable exited the frame. I hadn't even noticed the correct hole. I now realise this is a (i presume) a drainage hole. 

With regards to the headset thanks for the info and and advice all - very helpfull.

Just one question - i understand where the obvious parts go but there are 2 thin metal washers and a split metal piece that I'm not sure about - can any one shed any light ?


----------



## FTR

crockpot2001 said:


> i'm having a heck of a time finding a frame with a tt near 60cm. I'm seeing a lot of stuff in the 56-57 tt range but coming up empty for any larger. I'm 6'4".
> 
> I know google is our friend but i don't have a shovel big enough to dig though the data.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Crockpot


fm028


----------



## tonyyangdu

*DengFu FM069 Newest TT frameset*

Dear all, thanks for all.

Now DengFu FM069 New TT frameset 52cm can be finished in next week.
FM069 TT frame will have 50/52/54/56cm. Now 52cm frame are mass producing.
54CM and 56cm mould will finish in this month.If every body have any interest , pls contact us.
best regards
tony


----------



## satonatree

tonyyangdu said:


> Dear all, thanks for all.
> 
> Now DengFu FM069 New TT frameset 52cm can be finished in next week.
> FM069 TT frame will have 50/52/54/56cm. Now 52cm frame are mass producing.
> 54CM and 56cm mould will finish in this month.If every body have any interest , pls contact us.
> best regards
> tony


was quoted with the price
"Thanks for your inquiry.
pls find attached the geometry of fm069,thanks!
could you pls inform us how many pcs do you need? our MOQ is 6pcs, more than 6pcs, we offer $915 with clear coating,include the fork/frame/seatpost/aero bar
headset sizes need 1 1/8", headset need $14

any question,pls contact us
best regards
Martina"


----------



## danny87

I wonder if anyone who owns a FM015 can help me. My left break lever (SRAM rival) seems to be rattling whenever I go over rougher ground. I believe it's due to the inner cable I had to botch together and run through the frame. I've tried resetting the brake cable etc. But when you pull the brake lever the cable seems slow to return. Has anyone else had or have this problem? And can anyone suggest a new replacement cable housing to run through the frame that might work better?


----------



## FTR

danny87 said:


> I wonder if anyone who owns a FM015 can help me. My left break lever (SRAM rival) seems to be rattling whenever I go over rougher ground. I believe it's due to the inner cable I had to botch together and run through the frame. I've tried resetting the brake cable etc. But when you pull the brake lever the cable seems slow to return. Has anyone else had or have this problem? And can anyone suggest a new replacement cable housing to run through the frame that might work better?


Common problem.
Remove the end caps for the cable outer where it enters the frame.


----------



## danny87

Thanks FTR, I'll give that a try! 

I used a guide from this thread posted absolutely donkeys ago. Which showed how to unwravel a outer brake cable to get the teflon inner plastic guide thingy. Which made a big difference as initially the brake cable would not even return at all when you pulled the lever!


----------



## GT8

Spent the whole weekend looking through the various Chinese threads and decided to pull the trigger on this:

RB002 Matt 3k full Carbon Road bike &non-ISP bicycle&carbon Frame&Fork +headset | eBay

Which I take it is the same as a FM028.

I've tried using the search but it is hard to get specific answers with so many threads - please forgive me if these questions have come up before.

1 - Seatpost 31.6mm and 34.9 collar?

2 - Do these frames come with the cable guides on the underside of the frame, next to bottom bracket?

3 - are these the correct size for the downtube? 
Token Alloy Downtube Cable Adjuster 2012 | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com

Thanks for this and for all your excellent pics - given me the bug!


----------



## TheBigYin

GT8 - I have to confess I've been looking at that one myself - please let us know how things turn out with it, as the size 58 version of that is pretty much spot on fit for me...


----------



## sandman77

I have a rfm201 (dogma lookalike frame) and my internal gear cables are rubbing at the exit from the downtube. Would it be wise to open out the entry and exit holes and feed outer cable through the frame?


----------



## castofone

Triaxtremec said:


> For some reason my posts in this thread are always deleted, all I want to know is if people are having as good of luck with the Chinese direct bars as they are having with the frames and wheels?


Mine are still going strong (~18,000km). I can't remember who I bought them from but it was on Alibaba and they were 190g claimed for 42 cm, 206g actual, and 190g after shortening them a tad.
They have a peculiar bend that wasn't obvious from the photo. The bends to the drops have a nose in bend and the levers set up slightly nose in seen from the top, and bottom in seen from the front, while the drops angle outwards maybe 3°. I wouldn't have bought them had I noticed it before hand but they work well with lots of width on the tops as well as giving good drop hold and they look ok so I wont change them.


----------



## kip.duff

*opinions/advise on smaller frame sizing*

I need to finalize my order- I'm ordering an FM039 from HongFu, nominal size 54 or 56cm. I was given beautiful detailed geometry drawings, and in the case of the FM039, the nominal size is actually from BB center to top of seat tube (where it's cut off). I am using the "Eddy" (moderate- cot competitive) sizing data from Competitive Cyclist sizing calculator. Results: nominal size "56cm", 55.5cm virtual top tube, and 11.0cm stem.

*FM039 nominal size "56cm": actually has virtual top tube of 55.5cm (same as CC recommendations). Will have 14.0cm seat post extension (seat post is 30.0cm long). However, I will be limited to maximum seat-to-handlebar-top drop of about 12.5cm, with stem as far down as it will go.

*FM039 nominal size "54cm": has virtual top tube measurement of 54.3cm (1.2cm less than recommended). Will have seat post extension of 16cm. Will be able to have max seat-to-handlebar-top drop of about 14.5cm. I could use a 12cm stem to compensate for smaller top tube length.

Because of a steeper steering head angle on the 56cm bike, wheel base is actually a hair more on the "54cm" bike (?!).

I am currently using handlebar drop of about 10cm, and I'm not sure where I'll want to go on that dimension.

Questions:

1) What might advantages be to smaller size?

2) Any downside to smaller size? 

3) What is good maximum limit for stem distance from upper head bearing (stack dimension)?

Thanks, Kip.........


----------



## zigmeister

Seneb said:


> I believe the time limit for a dispute is 45 days from the date of payment.
> 
> I really hope this works out for you, Mikke


Yes, I should also mention, I put on my calendar about 40 days from order date/full payment with these vendors. If I've heard nothing, and they don't respond, I just open up a Paypal dispute. Because as you said, past 45 days, you have zero recourse and screwed.

This way, you have an open dispute, and that can stay open for another 30 days or something like that, to give them time to respond to the lead time and make good on the delivery, or just get a refund.

I had to do this with another vendor for a limited slip differential for my car. At day 45, after numerous emails and no answers, filed a dispute, then got my money back. It is the only protection you have.

I think it is ridiculous they take that long to begin with, it isn't like we are ordering a custom Bentley or something where we know it will take 5 months to build it.


----------



## ptsbike55

Because of a steeper steering head angle on the 56cm bike, wheel base is actually a hair more on the "54cm" bike (?!).

I am currently using handlebar drop of about 10cm, and I'm not sure where I'll want to go on that dimension.

Questions:

1) What might advantages be to smaller size?

2) Any downside to smaller size? 

3) What is good maximum limit for stem distance from upper head bearing (stack dimension)?

Thanks, Kip......... 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I got a 54 cm frame from Carbonal. I feel like I could ride a little smaller frame because the set back on the seatpost really stretched me out on the bike. A smaller size is usually stiffer and lighter, but using a very long stem is not a great way to fit yourself to a bike.


----------



## kip.duff

"I got a 54 cm frame from Carbonal. I feel like I could ride a little smaller frame because the set back on the seatpost really stretched me out on the bike. A smaller size is usually stiffer and lighter, but using a very long stem is not a great way to fit yourself to a bike."

ptsbike:

What is your inseam and height measurement?


----------



## ptsbike55

31", 5'10"


----------



## minch

I have a Ican SP-AC053 (identical to the Miracle MC053- the ID tags inside the frame say miracle and the paypal address for ICAN was miracle).

Anyway, the build went very smoothly but I am having some trouble with the seatpost and clamp. The issue is not that the post slips down, rather that it slips up- and pulls the entire clamp set-up out of the frame. This seems to occur when riding with the post eventually wobbling slightly. Would really like to know if anyone has a solution to keep the clamp seated in its spot without it working loose (and upwards) on a ride.

Also, i cannot lift the bike by its seat generally or the post slips out- not a deal breaker but a bit of a hassle.

Thanks.

Edit- grammar


----------



## Rainerhq

*Deng Fu CX frame*

Anybody bought FM059?
Geometry looks pretty good.


----------



## jonoir

*Finished FM039 - Initial review*

Ok guys, 
I thought i'd add my review having spent this weekend building up 'el toro' and riding her over the last 2 days (40 miles) on my commute. 

Firstly I couldn't be more pleased. It's fantastic to ride, quick, responsive and best of all makes me feel great. 
I have come from 6 years riding on alluminium scott speedsters with tiagra finishing kits. Not great but they've done me proud. But this is another level. I wasn't after a major weight difference so I upgraded to 105. I didn't want the risk of busting expensive Carbon so I opted for solid Mavic Cosmic elites as they'll cope with the daily commute and they're a treat in my book. 

*Buying Process*
Smooth and straight forward with one blip. Ordered from Hong Fu - Lots of contact with Jenny before hand and she was generally pretty good in replying. I occasionally had to send the odd email twice but no more than that. 
Ordered frame, forks and headset and Jenny threw in some spacers for free. Awaited my confirmation of dispatch inline with the 7-10 days she had quoted. Mailed her for tracking number at 10th day. No reply. Panic sets in. Mailed again finally got a reply saying there had been a mix up in painting and that it would be another 7 days before they could ship, unless I wanted a glossy finish and they could ship today. Hmmm no i'll have the finish I paid for please and in 7 days please. 
This was the only blip the bike was dispatched in 7 days and was with me shortley after that 10 working days I think. 
All arrived packed well no marks and everything looked aligned. Frame looked great to be honest. 

*Build Process*
Now, I have never built a bike in my life. I've changed the odd part. But in order to build this I needed to buy a cassete nut, bb tool cable cutters. This should give you an indication as to the extent of my knowledge. 
But between this forum, youtube, sheldon brown and a hand full of other resources I gleaned all the knowledge I needed and came to the conclusion that the only thing I wanted my lbs to do was knock on the crown race. I wasn't prepared to pay £20+ for a tool I was going to use once when my lbs would only charge me £5 to do the job. 
So, crown race on, I started in earnest and to cut a long story short it all went pretty well. I made a bit of a mess of cutting the forks and ended up going one spacer lower than I wanted but to be honest from a fit perspective I think this works better for me. I still have to to some fine tuning on the gears and the rear pinch bolt wasn't tight enough so I lost gears on my first ride out. But other that that it was straight forward. I simply followed on golden rule - Do not rush this. 

*The Ride*
Going from what I had to what I have is pretty dramatic. I have also reduced my crank length and changed my rear cassette ratio. The bike is a dream. I have already run a sub 30min 10 mile in windy conditions and the weight difference and aero properties are noticeable (not in a good way when there is a side wind).
There are a 3 issues I have come across though 
1 foot front wheel overlap (just not something I have had to deal with before and is something that needs to now be factored in)
The seat post will not clamp (i don't want to go too tight for obvious reasons) I have some assembly paste on order and hope this helps but if any one has any suggestions that would be great as I'm not keen on the fact it is being supported by the frame.
3 The constant thought in the back of my mind that this bike is from china and not proven so don't push it too hard as it may break. I hope this changes over time and is just a part of me and the bike growing used to one another. 
Other than that its light firm and fast. 


Either way 'El toro' is born. 

Let me know if I can answer any of your questions or help in anyway with any part of the process - it's the least I can do after everyones help on here !!

Jonoir


----------



## gte534j

minch said:


> I have a Ican SP-AC053 (identical to the Miracle MC053- the ID tags inside the frame say miracle and the paypal address for ICAN was miracle).
> 
> Anyway, the build went very smoothly but I am having some trouble with the seatpost and clamp. The issue is not that the post slips down, rather that it slips up- and pulls the entire clamp set-up out of the frame. This seems to occur when riding with the post eventually wobbling slightly. Would really like to know if anyone has a solution to keep the clamp seated in its spot without it working loose (and upwards) on a ride.
> 
> Also, i cannot lift the bike by its seat generally or the post slips out- not a deal breaker but a bit of a hassle.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Edit- grammar


This should help:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...rect-version-6-0-a-272806-14.html#post3804027


----------



## gte534j

minch said:


> I have a Ican SP-AC053 (identical to the Miracle MC053- the ID tags inside the frame say miracle and the paypal address for ICAN was miracle).
> 
> Anyway, the build went very smoothly but I am having some trouble with the seatpost and clamp. The issue is not that the post slips down, rather that it slips up- and pulls the entire clamp set-up out of the frame. This seems to occur when riding with the post eventually wobbling slightly. Would really like to know if anyone has a solution to keep the clamp seated in its spot without it working loose (and upwards) on a ride.
> 
> Also, i cannot lift the bike by its seat generally or the post slips out- not a deal breaker but a bit of a hassle.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Edit- grammar


This should help:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...rect-version-6-0-a-272806-14.html#post3804027


----------



## kip.duff

"1 foot front wheel overlap (just not something I have had to deal with before and is something that needs to now be factored in)
The seat post will not clamp (i don't want to go too tight for obvious reasons) I have some assembly paste on order and hope this helps but if any one has any suggestions that would be great as I'm not keen on the fact it is being supported by the frame."


Jonoir:

Interested in your project because I am ordering one an FM039 also. On the seat post issue, I saddened to hear about the problem. One would think that this would have been resolved by now.- in the FM098 Group Buy Thread on the other forum, DengFu apparently have resolved this problem. I am going to review this thread for more info on the seat post nonsense- was hoping I would not have to educate myself on this. What is your seat post extension? By your photo, it appears to me that you went a bit with the "smaller than conventional recommendation frame size" band wagon, and you wind up with a bit more seat post extension and steerer stack and reach. Even though it shouldn't, I'm wondering if larger seat post extension might contribute to the lack of security there. I'm planning on a "54cm" or "56cm" bike size. In my case, seat post extension would be 16cm and 14 cm respectively. Approx 11cm stem would point down, with stack of 0 - 5cm. I'm having trouble deciding which size to get, but with either size I buy, I believe the ratio of difference between rider size and bike will be less in my case.

I'm curious to know what you mean by "1 foot front wheel overlap".

On strength of the Chinese frames, based on these and other forums, it appears that they are just as good as the more expensive name brands. There are some pretty large/heavy guys riding these things, putting beaucoup miles with no incidents- at least I didn't come across any except a case where a handlebar broke that was from a lower volume/lesser known factory. Guy broke some ribs. My personal belief is that the manufacturers referenced frequently in this forum are safe. I have been buying a few items from DengFu.


----------



## jonoir

kip.duff said:


> "1 foot front wheel overlap (just not something I have had to deal with before and is something that needs to now be factored in)
> The seat post will not clamp (i don't want to go too tight for obvious reasons) I have some assembly paste on order and hope this helps but if any one has any suggestions that would be great as I'm not keen on the fact it is being supported by the frame."
> 
> 
> Jonoir:
> 
> Interested in your project because I am ordering one an FM039 also. On the seat post issue, I saddened to hear about the problem. One would think that this would have been resolved by now.- in the FM098 Group Buy Thread on the other forum, DengFu apparently have resolved this problem. I am going to review this thread for more info on the seat post nonsense- was hoping I would not have to educate myself on this. What is your seat post extension? By your photo, it appears to me that you went a bit with the "smaller than conventional recommendation frame size" band wagon, and you wind up with a bit more seat post extension and steerer stack and reach. Even though it shouldn't, I'm wondering if larger seat post extension might contribute to the lack of security there. I'm planning on a "54cm" or "56cm" bike size. In my case, seat post extension would be 16cm and 14 cm respectively. Approx 11cm stem would point down, with stack of 0 - 5cm. I'm having trouble deciding which size to get, but with either size I buy, I believe the ratio of difference between rider size and bike will be less in my case.
> 
> I'm curious to know what you mean by "1 foot front wheel overlap".
> 
> On strength of the Chinese frames, based on these and other forums, it appears that they are just as good as the more expensive name brands. There are some pretty large/heavy guys riding these things, putting beaucoup miles with no incidents- at least I didn't come across any except a case where a handlebar broke that was from a lower volume/lesser known factory. Guy broke some ribs. My personal belief is that the manufacturers referenced frequently in this forum are safe. I have been buying a few items from DengFu.


Yes the seat post is a bit of a nightmare but to be honest the hight is pretty much ok for me as it is. I could do with a couple of extra centimetres and that's about it. I'd have to have a look later at the extension Needless to say the only supporting it is the seat tube and a some pressure from the clamp. I am just hoping the carbon paste works. 

Foot over lap - if my pedals are at quarter to 3 and I make a slow turn the front wheel hits the toes of my leading foot. It only happens at slow speeds as that's when the wheel needs to be turned more. But I have to watch it never the less i'e weaving in and out of traffic etc

I know what you mean about the confidence in strenght the track record of these frames is good. I'm sure that doubt will fade over time. It's like when you bust a chain or come off on a bend for the first time. You're wary for a while as you don't want it to happen again. It's that kind of feeling.


----------



## Mapach

Ive been watching this forum for some time now, and im about to order a frame soon. 
And i got a question for owners of the Flyxii FLX-FR-303 frameset. I wonder how high standover height do you have on the 52 and 54 cm frames?

This would really help me decide wich one to get. Thanks guys!

/Magnus


----------



## bmcv11

Mapach said:


> Ive been watching this forum for some time now, and im about to order a frame soon.
> And i got a question for owners of the Flyxii FLX-FR-303 frameset. I wonder how high standover height do you have on the 52 and 54 cm frames?
> 
> This would really help me decide wich one to get. Thanks guys!
> 
> /Magnus


775mm on my 54cm frame.......hope this helps.


----------



## mjb152

jonoir said:


> 1 foot front wheel overlap (just not something I have had to deal with before and is something that needs to now be factored in)
> The seat post will not clamp (i don't want to go too tight for obvious reasons)


with the toe overlap, you'll just get used to it. I added some cruds on for commuting, and at a set of lights I snapped the front one off because of this, now I am a lot more cautious.

Now the seat clamp, this was a pain for me for a while, it kept slipping and I kept tightening, I tried carbon paste and it never worked, after 5-6 rides the thread went on one of the holes, and then a very nice friend stepped in a fitted a helicoil at the top and bottom, and now it's perfect. no issues since I tightened it up (think I did 5nm). If I were you, I'd find someone to fit 2 helicoils, or do it yourself - after that I've ridden 100 milers, commuted, and various other events with no issues at all.
It's a lovely bike, but I'd advise you to flip that stem. I couldn't read my garmin when it was like yours as the angle was too steep.


----------



## jonoir

mjb152 said:


> with the toe overlap, you'll just get used to it. I added some cruds on for commuting, and at a set of lights I snapped the front one off because of this, now I am a lot more cautious.
> 
> Now the seat clamp, this was a pain for me for a while, it kept slipping and I kept tightening, I tried carbon paste and it never worked, after 5-6 rides the thread went on one of the holes, and then a very nice friend stepped in a fitted a helicoil at the top and bottom, and now it's perfect. no issues since I tightened it up (think I did 5nm). If I were you, I'd find someone to fit 2 helicoils, or do it yourself - after that I've ridden 100 milers, commuted, and various other events with no issues at all.
> It's a lovely bike, but I'd advise you to flip that stem. I couldn't read my garmin when it was like yours as the angle was too steep.


I've got a set of race blades for when it's really bad and only occasionally used to use the front one. I guess now those occasions with be diminished to rarely. 

With regards to the seat post - I had never heard of a helicoil before and after a quick google search can't really see how they can be a benefit. My problem is not that I can't tighten the screws my issue is that no matter how tight I go the mast still slips when I sit on it. 
I have come up with a temporary fix that held for 10 miles this morning. I have simply wrapped a layer of electrical tape around the mast. It made the mast dificult to get in and it bunch up a bit but once it has been tighted it seems to hold pretty stiff. I think more than anything it puts the slipping process into slow motion but thus far it doesn't look to have moved. 

If you could explain a little more about the principle behind the helicoils i'd be grateful pictures would also be great. 

Jonoir


----------



## mjb152

jonoir said:


> I have come up with a temporary fix that held for 10 miles this morning. I have simply wrapped a layer of electrical tape around the mast. It made the mast dificult to get in and it bunch up a bit but once it has been tighted it seems to hold pretty stiff.


that's not going to work long term, it'll slip. This frustrated me more and more, until retightening stripped the thread. Maybe there was some crap in there originally that stopped me tightening it up enough, but I'm not sure.



jonoir said:


> If you could explain a little more about the principle behind the helicoils i'd be grateful pictures would also be great.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threaded_insert (can't post links yet, post count isn't high enough)
I was convinced the thread was crap, seeing as though it stripped so easily, so I had the helicoils fitted and then bought some high tensile bolts as well, now I know I can rely on them, and I tightened them up to 5 or 6nm with carbon paste, and they haven't moved at all.
The helicoil method means that you effectively change the bolt size down by 1, but thats no big issue. 
I didn't manage to find a replacement seat clamp, so this method worked well for me.


----------



## jonoir

mjb152 said:


> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threaded_insert (can't post links yet, post count isn't high enough)
> I was convinced the thread was crap, seeing as though it stripped so easily, so I had the helicoils fitted and then bought some high tensile bolts as well, now I know I can rely on them, and I tightened them up to 5 or 6nm with carbon paste, and they haven't moved at all.
> The helicoil method means that you effectively change the bolt size down by 1, but thats no big issue.
> I didn't manage to find a replacement seat clamp, so this method worked well for me.


The threads seem ok though. From what I can tell it's the curves at the front end that aren't snug enough or in line with each other. Therefore no matter how tight the back (narrow end) is you always end up with a gap at the front ending up with seatpost slipping.

This doesn't sound like the same problem as you or at least in theory would be rectifies with your solution?

Jonoir


----------



## mjb152

hmm, frustrating.


----------



## mjb152

how I can pm you, my post count should be high enough


----------



## Mapach

bmcv11 said:


> 775mm on my 54cm frame.......hope this helps.


Absolutley! Thank you for quick reply. :thumbsup: 
Sounds like it will be a good fit for my 82cm inseem. 

/Magnus


----------



## ms6073

Rainerhq said:


> Anybody bought FM059?


Very nice. I have no information but from looking at Dengfu's Aliexpress site, this frame apparently is available with either ISP or non-ISP but unsure whether the bottom bracket shell is BB30, PF30, or BSA24 threaded. Curious why they went to the trouble of designing internal cables and ran the rear deraileur along the downtube but the front deraileur is routed through the top tube requiring a pulley or top-pull deraileur.


----------



## kip.duff

jonoir said:


> The threads seem ok though. From what I can tell it's the curves at the front end that aren't snug enough or in line with each other. Therefore no matter how tight the back (narrow end) is you always end up with a gap at the front ending up with seatpost slipping.
> 
> This doesn't sound like the same problem as you or at least in theory would be rectifies with your solution?
> 
> Jonoir


Guys:

I think someone else posted a possible fix somewhere earlier in this huge thread. Take aluminum beverage can and cut rectangular shim from smooth side area of it, and install between post and tube at place of your choice- I was thinking curving it into a U shape and putting between seat mast trailing edge and seat tube. Kinda like your electrical tape but hopefully a lot better.

If you could, let me know how goes, since I was ready to order an FM039. I thought the carbon paste would cure problem. BTW, when you refer to carbon paste do you mean then TACX stuff? Kip........................


----------



## orlin03

kip.duff said:


> Guys:
> 
> I think someone else posted a possible fix somewhere earlier in this huge thread. Take aluminum beverage can and cut rectangular shim from smooth side area of it, and install between post and tube at place of your choice- I was thinking curving it into a U shape and putting between seat mast trailing edge and seat tube. Kinda like your electrical tape but hopefully a lot better.
> 
> If you could, let me know how goes, since I was ready to order an FM039. I thought the carbon paste would cure problem. BTW, when you refer to carbon paste do you mean then TACX stuff? Kip........................


I used this same exact technique to fix a similar problem on a friend's fixie; the hole for the seat tube was slightly too big, and no clamp could fix it. That was two years ago, and it's still holding today on that commuter.


----------



## sefjlksnc

edited...


----------



## Dengfu-lucky

hi all, this is lucky from dengfu!


----------



## kip.duff

sefjlksnc said:


> edited...


What happened to the post about the loose seat post?


----------



## andresmunoz

I have a chinese FM-028 TT frame, and the bottom mounted rear brake does not have any breaking power at speed (and I'm not quick!). So far I have used Tektro R725R & T726R brake calipers, and the resulting performance is the same... NONE.

Note that I can lock the wheel at very low speeds, so the braking is there... just nowere to be found at speed... maybe it jumps off the bike past 10km/h?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## minch

gte534j said:


> This should help:


Thanks- I had already tried that method but with no success- might increase the number of shims and maybe look at adding a grippy rubber to help keep the clamp in place.


----------



## orlin03

*Campagnolo Rear TT Brake*



andresmunoz said:


> I have a chinese FM-028 TT frame, and the bottom mounted rear brake does not have any breaking power at speed (and I'm not quick!). So far I have used Tektro R725R & T726R brake calipers, and the resulting performance is the same... NONE.
> 
> Note that I can lock the wheel at very low speeds, so the braking is there... just nowere to be found at speed... maybe it jumps off the bike past 10km/h?
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.


There are much more expensive options out there (check page 59 for a post directed to me), but the next step up in price would probably be Campy's new 2012 TT offerings. I believe you have to mate them with their TT brake levers to make use of the quick-release, but I would be willing to bet they are a bit stronger than Tektro. They also have beefier pads. http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=70213


----------



## Vee

orlin03 said:


> There are much more expensive options out there (check page 59 for a post directed to me), but the next step up in price would probably be Campy's new 2012 TT offerings. I believe you have to mate them with their TT brake levers to make use of the quick-release, but I would be willing to bet they are a bit stronger than Tektro. They also have beefier pads. Campagnolo Rear Brake - Lateral Pull 2012 | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com


They're just rebranded tektro brakes.


----------



## orlin03

Vee said:


> They're just rebranded tektro brakes.


Were the T925 brakes any better than the others?


----------



## Vee

orlin03 said:


> Were the T925 brakes any better than the others?


They are all identical with different branding or colors. I do not believe any one is better than the other. 

One thing to mention, though, the FM018 actually uses a front brake instead of a rear because of where it is positioned. If you use a rear brake, additional pressure will be put on the bolt that holds the pads in the shoes, and that is not the way the brake was designed to be used.


----------



## orlin03

Vee said:


> They are all identical with different branding or colors.
> ... the FM018 actually uses a front brake instead of a rear because of where it is positioned. If you use a rear brake, additional pressure will be put on the bolt that holds the pads in the shoes, and that is not the way the brake was designed to be used.


Very good info. I was wondering that very thing, since it is now facing the "other way", but I assumed I was overthinking it. You just saved me some trouble, and probably a lot of lost braking power!


----------



## DEF70

I have tried to search for opinions on an endurance style bike, but can't find the answers I'm looking for. What I would like is opinions on a less aggressive geo frame for century rides. I am 6'0" and 200#. I know it's an older model, but would a FM001 be suitable?


----------



## ms6073

Vee said:


> One thing to mention, though, the FM018 actually uses a front brake instead of a rear because of where it is positioned.


Actually you can reverse the brake pads holders on the calipers. This is what I did with the Simkins Design Egg Brakes on the wife and my FM018 and while these calipers are a tad pricey, not too mention finicky in terms of setup, but when properly setup (I use Gore Ride On Professional cables), I find the Simkins brakes provide very good braking with Reynolds SDV66 carbon clinchers as well as Zipp 1080/909 disc setup at all speeds.


----------



## Bridgey

sandman77 said:


> I have a rfm201 (dogma lookalike frame) and my internal gear cables are rubbing at the exit from the downtube. Would it be wise to open out the entry and exit holes and feed outer cable through the frame?


Had the same problem. Just buy some frame protection tape (clear vinyl - wiggle sells it by the sheets) and stick it on there or even around the cable in that spot. It will protect your frame. I have it in a number of places (ie. on the chainstays, etc)


----------



## kip.duff

*any one found good "shallow", "compact" carbon handlebars?*

Decided to try "compact" handlebars. Something like FSA K-Force Compact carbon. 125mm drop, 80mm reach, and 4 degree flare out at drops. CyclingYoung has some, but not a well known factory. DengFu amd HongFu have HB003, which appears to have traditional drop and reach.

Anyone find any of these or similar they like? Thanks, Kip..................


----------



## Tswifty

kip.duff said:


> Decided to try "compact" handlebars. Something like FSA K-Force Compact carbon. 125mm drop, 80mm reach, and 4 degree flare out at drops. *CyclingYoung* has some, but not a well known factory. DengFu amd HongFu have HB003, which appears to have traditional drop and reach.
> 
> Anyone find any of these or similar they like? Thanks, Kip..................


Dont buy from *CyclingYong? Young?* What ever the name is. Not many people have had nice things to say about "Their" Stuff lately. Even just a few pages back someone was not happy with his stuff. Id stick with Hongfu or Dengfu and just get a bike fit to help bring the bars to you....if all else fails get a Ritchy or actual FSA Kforce compact.


----------



## kip.duff

Tswifty said:


> Dont buy from *CyclingYong? Young?* What ever the name is. Not many people have had nice things to say about "Their" Stuff lately. Even just a few pages back someone was not happy with his stuff. Id stick with Hongfu or Dengfu and just get a bike fit to help bring the bars to you....if all else fails get a Ritchy or actual FSA Kforce compact.


Kinda what it's looking like. FSA Omega Compact street price $40 (305gm)- FSA Wing Pro street price $67 (260gm). Both alloy. Then if I feel rich later and really like them, I'll pop for the high $ carbon. I think I'm committed to making the switch to compact bars.


----------



## MKO

sandman77 said:


> I have a rfm201 (dogma lookalike frame) and my internal gear cables are rubbing at the exit from the downtube. Would it be wise to open out the entry and exit holes and feed outer cable through the frame?





Bridgey said:


> Had the same problem. Just buy some frame protection tape (clear vinyl - wiggle sells it by the sheets) and stick it on there or even around the cable in that spot. It will protect your frame. I have it in a number of places (ie. on the chainstays, etc)


Teflon cable liner looks better. Similar to the below photo.


----------



## sandman77

MKO said:


> Teflon cable liner looks better. Similar to the below photo.


Thanks for the tip, worked a treat.


----------



## mtbboy41

I did the same on my MC008 underneath the bottom bracket and it works a treat.


----------



## mtbboy41

Here is a picture of my MT-MC008 



It rides really well and is much stiffer than my 2008 Specialized Roubaix Pro. I built it with a full Dura Ace Groupset. There have been a couple of niggling problems. The rear gear cable stop is mounted on the side of the chainstay and I sometimes hit it with my heel. I also had to change the carbon seat post I bought with the frame. It was the Bontrager style post and i couldn't get it to clamp the seat rails and stop it sliding back. I also broke the bolt trying to tighten it!!
My most disappointing issue is how "soft" the rear derailleur hanger is. I need to get some spares and Miracle just don't answer emails now. Is it a common hanger?? Has anyone had any success getting a spare?


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

MKO said:


> Teflon cable liner looks better. Similar to the below photo.


Hi there ... What is the make and diameter of the liner that you are using?


----------



## MKO

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Hi there ... What is the make and diameter of the liner that you are using?


I am not sure about the diameter but I used the liner that came with my Sram Rival groupset. Any liner from your cable housing will do.

Here's a photo from Jim Langley's blog.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

MKO said:


> I am not sure about the diameter but I used the liner that came with my Sram Rival groupset. Any liner from your cable housing will do.
> 
> Here's a photo from Jim Langley's blog.


:thumbsup:

i'd vote that as my tip of the month ... cheers ... :7:


----------



## evankuhl

*fm028*

Just put my FM028 together, replaced my Trek 1.1 and it's an amazing difference. 

It's an FM028 frame, 60mm wheel set, and SRAM rival groupset. The final weight is 18 pounds 8 oz. 


Here's a quick video I shot halfway through my ride today: https://youtu.be/C_qdYHQFo4Q

Here's a list of everything weighed out: https://www.scribd.com/doc/94237836/Blank


----------



## csneom4a1

*Thanks*

Thanks for the video and pics.


----------



## zender

MKO said:


> Teflon cable liner looks better. Similar to the below photo.


I tried this on two different FM frames, but the size of the entry hole for the cable distal to the bottom bracket cable guide only fits the cable itself, the teflon inner would not thread through that hole. That means the teflon guide just butts up against the frame, but the cable will still rub where it enters the frame. 

Are you guys enlarging that hole? If so, how deep are you drilling? 

From a pic of the De Rosa R838, which uses the same mold as one of my frames, there was a small (anodized aluminum I think) eyelet inserted into this cable entry hole. Of course, it's these little details that make it a much more expensive frame. I wish I could find that photo.


----------



## Teo

After more than 60 days I finall got my Greatkeen frame last Thursday and finished the build. Bike looks pretty good. I had just a few issues that required easy fixes. The finish on the bike is OK but not perfect. If they had sprayed the clear coat a little thicker it would have been better. And they misspelled one of the decals. Luckily it was inside one of the seat stays so it’s not as visible. 

Took the bike out for a test ride and it seems to be a bit stiffer than my previous bike, 2011 Wilier Izoard. It also seems a little more nimble in the corners. 

I was concerned that the top tube was 3cm shorter than my Izoard even though the seat tubes where the same length, but upon riding it I actually feel more comfortable on this bike. So overall ride quality and fit are better than expected. 

My only real problem is the seatpost. It will not stay in place. It keeps slipping down. After less than a mile of riding it drops more than 3cm. I adjusted it and tightened it many times. I even tightened it so much that the screw on the seatpost clamp has stripped, now I need a new clamp. Very frustrating. I’m trying to work it out with greatkeen to get a new seatpost clamp since it’s a unique teardrop shape. Once it’s all sorted out I expect I will enjoy having this new bike.


----------



## jordo_99

The_Maraquis_of_Carabas said:


> Here are a few pics of my last FM039 build.


Catching back up on the tread this morning...what are your thoughts on the Merek saddle?
I was very close to getting one of them off eBay but I ended up going with a TR-SD006CF on alibaba...main reason was that it has a cutout down the middle for my future children's sake.


----------



## andresmunoz

To prevent que seatpost sliding you can use either carbon grease (avaialble from you LBS) or hair spray (available from your supermarket). the harder the hairspray the better. I use Alberto VO5 extra hold and it has worked great on both my builds


----------



## Teo

andresmunoz said:


> To prevent que seatpost sliding you can use either carbon grease (avaialble from you LBS) or hair spray (available from your supermarket). the harder the hairspray the better. I use Alberto VO5 extra hold and it has worked great on both my builds



I was actually trying out the hairspray idea last night when I stipped the bolt on the setpost clamp. Now I need a new clamp. 

What frame have you trid this idea on?


----------



## andresmunoz

*hey, what works, works*



Teo said:


> I was actually trying out the hairspray idea last night when I stipped the bolt on the setpost clamp. Now I need a new clamp.
> 
> What frame have you trid this idea on?


Sorry to read that. I have tried it on both my FM-028 TT frame and my carbon road frame (no idea on model, but also from carbonzone. Both frames can be seen on my album on my profile.), and a mates Pinarello Dogma.. he was shocked at the low cost solution on his expensive bike... but hey, what works, works


----------



## robc in wi

mtbboy41 said:


> Here is a picture of my MT-MC008
> 
> 
> 
> It rides really well and is much stiffer than my 2008 Specialized Roubaix Pro. I built it with a full Dura Ace Groupset. There have been a couple of niggling problems. The rear gear cable stop is mounted on the side of the chainstay and I sometimes hit it with my heel. I also had to change the carbon seat post I bought with the frame. It was the Bontrager style post and i couldn't get it to clamp the seat rails and stop it sliding back. I also broke the bolt trying to tighten it!!
> My most disappointing issue is how "soft" the rear derailleur hanger is. I need to get some spares and Miracle just don't answer emails now. Is it a common hanger?? Has anyone had any success getting a spare?


Nice build. When I ordered my mc-008 they gave me a free extra hanger but I will be keeping it just in case. When I ordered from Miracle I always communicated via live chat on Alibaba or by email but always late at night. Somethimes I had replies to my emails within 10 minutes. I almost went with your paint scheme but didn't care for the way the chainstays looked. I absolutely love the frame though.


----------



## mtbboy41

Yes, I love the frame too. I was really amazed by the quality and how well everything went together. It looks even better with the custom wheels i built. Red Bikestore hubs and quick releases with CX Ray spokes and Kinlin rims. 
I'm not sure about the decals but i really didn't want to pretend that it was anything other than a chinese carbon frame. Lots of my friends have ridden it and can't get over how good it is. A full dura ace bike with carbon frame and components for $2500 Australian is a great deal.


----------



## jonoir

Teo said:


> I was actually trying out the hairspray idea last night when I stipped the bolt on the setpost clamp. Now I need a new clamp.
> 
> What frame have you trid this idea on?


I'm liking this hairspray Idea - do you just spray it on liberally ???


----------



## beston

Teo said:


> I was actually trying out the hairspray idea last night when I stipped the bolt on the setpost clamp. Now I need a new clamp.
> 
> What frame have you trid this idea on?


I would also recommend buying a torque wrench!


----------



## sandman77

andresmunoz said:


> To prevent que seatpost sliding you can use either carbon grease (avaialble from you LBS) or hair spray (available from your supermarket). the harder the hairspray the better. I use Alberto VO5 extra hold and it has worked great on both my builds


I solved the issue on my rfm201 by cutting a 1 inch square out of a coke can and using it as a shim. Works perfectly and is out of sight in the seat post tube.


----------



## Teo

Tell me what you guys think. I had to cut down my seat post because I have to ride it low enough that if I didn’t cut it down the bottom would hit the water bottle mounts inside the seat tube and wouldn’t allow me to have the saddle low enough. Now my seat post won’t stay in place, it keeps sliding down. What I decided to do was to take the part of the set post that I cut off and basically make a spacer that I inserted inside the seat tube and now rests on the bottle mount. Now my seat post rests on top of this spacer thereby preventing the seat post from slipping any further down. Any issues you think?


----------



## Seneb

Teo said:


> Tell me what you guys think. I had to cut down my seat post because I have to ride it low enough that if I didn’t cut it down the bottom would hit the water bottle mounts inside the seat tube and wouldn’t allow me to have the saddle low enough. Now my seat post won’t stay in place, it keeps sliding down. What I decided to do was to take the part of the set post that I cut off and basically make a spacer that I inserted inside the seat tube and now rests on the bottle mount. Now my seat post rests on top of this spacer thereby preventing the seat post from slipping any further down. Any issues you think?


First off, it sounds like your frame is too big for you if you had to cut the seat post that much. As for the "spacer" you created, I imagine that might cause a problem internally putting odd pressure on the bottle mount. Have you tried the above solutions? Carbon paste, hair spray, etc...


----------



## racermech

I have been thinking about this frame for a while

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Full-Carbon...80743949420?pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item2a152dcc6c

It looks like the FM028 listed above, can someone else confirm this and then I can search for that and see what reviews i can find. I just like the look of the frame with the ISP.


----------



## evankuhl

racermech said:


> I have been thinking about this frame for a while
> 
> 
> It looks like the FM028 listed above, can someone else confirm this and then I can search for that and see what reviews i can find. I just like the look of the frame with the ISP.


Yes, that's an ISP FM028 frame from the same seller I used.


----------



## racermech

Evankuhl, Any issues with shipping or customs/taxes. 610 delivered seems resonable to me. Any long term issues you have had (been doing a little searching and so far it seems to be good)


----------



## Vee

racermech said:


> Evankuhl, Any issues with shipping or customs/taxes. 610 delivered seems resonable to me. Any long term issues you have had (been doing a little searching and so far it seems to be good)


No customs or issues with my FM015 ISP order from Carbonzone on ebay. Everything went smooth. My only warning to you would be that the seat mast is VERY heavy. Like, 170 grams heavy.... for this reason, I believe it might be a better idea to go non-isp. I ended up buying a Tune Cappy which dropped about 100 grams off of my build, but at the cost of nearly $200.


----------



## Tim O

Question about the various weave/finish options on these frames. Just about made up my mind to buy a FM-028, probably from Deng Fu/Carbonzone. 

Very tempted by the matt black finish, but is this matt lacquer or is it nude carbon? I'm rather taken with the idea of a matt finish but withe frame name on the seat and down tubes being in gloss. Easy enough to do on an unpainted frame but a bit more effort on a painted frame.

Or can the frames be bought unpainted? Any advice gratefully received.


----------



## andresmunoz

beston said:


> I would also recommend buying a torque wrench!


Ah yes.. good ol' Torque wrench is very handy. there should not be slippage issues at the recommended torque, provided that you use something like carbon grease or hairspray


----------



## Tswifty

Tim O said:


> Question about the various weave/finish options on these frames. Just about made up my mind to buy a FM-028, probably from Deng Fu/Carbonzone.
> 
> Very tempted by the matt black finish, but is this matt lacquer or is it nude carbon? I'm rather taken with the idea of a matt finish but withe frame name on the seat and down tubes being in gloss. Easy enough to do on an unpainted frame but a bit more effort on a painted frame.
> 
> Or can the frames be bought unpainted? Any advice gratefully received.


If you specify Matte Black then they will paint it Matte Black if you specify 3k Matte you will have the 3k weave in Matte finish.
And if you dont want any paint then they will probs just do like 3k gloss or 12k gloss finish. Better to specify.


----------



## ptsbike55

I was going to specify "no paint" on my frame from Carbonal, but they did not have any in stock unpainted, and I was going to have to wait about 4-6 weeks on an unpainted frame. I ended up going with the unpainted 3k matt.


----------



## evankuhl

racermech said:


> Evankuhl, Any issues with shipping or customs/taxes. 610 delivered seems resonable to me. Any long term issues you have had (been doing a little searching and so far it seems to be good)


I'm in the us, so no customs or tax issues. Shipping took about 3 weeks but I think they sat on it a few days in Chinese customs. 

I've only had the bike for about two weeks but I can't find any issues. The mechanic who put it together said he couldn't see any quality difference vs an actual Madone.


----------



## aquichiro

Hello everyone, I'm new to this site. I've been thinking about building my own triathlon bike. I've looked all over alibaba and I'm just overwelmed. Can anybody point me in the right direction from who are the best suppliers and which frames have better quality and durability.


----------



## haupi

*Chinese Tri/TT Frame*

Hello, 

does anybody have experience with the Chinese TRI/TT Frame?

I plan to build my Triathlon bike with Chinese frame. First of all I built with Ultegra and maybe in 2 years I buy also the Di2 Shifters.

Thank you for your help and suggestions.

Regards


----------



## ptsbike55

Here's how you sort through all this stuff on frames and companies.
Start on page one. Have a tablet next to you as you read. Everytime you come across a company name, write it down. Have a pro and con list for each company and everytime you come across one, write it down. Soon you will start seeing a pattern for what works and what doesn't. You should also visit the websites of the companies mentioned on here. Start reading.


----------



## lres9

*Looking for compact road handlebars.*

Hi everyone. I'm looking for chinese carbon compact[c-c size: 40 (400mm) drop:120~130mm, reach:70~80mm] road handlebars. But I can't find on Ebay or Alibaba. Does anyone know where to find? Sorry for my bad english. Thanks in advance.


----------



## hansonator69

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...-thread-ebay-direct-version-6-0-a-272806.html
Might want to give this a look...


----------



## haupi

I look in this post, but there's a lot of infos about Chinese Frames... 

I'm asking for exact information from the users...


----------



## zigmeister

ptsbike55 said:


> Here's how you sort through all this stuff on frames and companies.
> Start on page one. Have a tablet next to you as you read. Everytime you come across a company name, write it down. Have a pro and con list for each company and everytime you come across one, write it down. Soon you will start seeing a pattern for what works and what doesn't. You should also visit the websites of the companies mentioned on here. Start reading.


Exactly, do what the rest of us have done...READ!

Everybody wants things handed to them on a silver platter these days.


----------



## satonatree

zigmeister said:


> Exactly, do what the rest of us have done...READ!
> 
> Everybody wants things handed to them on a silver platter these days.


It maybe a long process but it pays to know all of the information shared by everyone.
I for one started reading from thread 5.0 gathering all the information about each company.


----------



## Rick Draper

Daoe anyone know what factory the Planet X Exocet 2 frame and forks comes out of?


----------



## Tswifty

aquichiro said:


> Hello everyone, I'm new to this site. I've been thinking about building my own triathlon bike. I've looked all over alibaba and I'm just overwelmed. Can anybody point me in the right direction from who are the best suppliers and which frames have better quality and durability.


1. Click this link http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...-thread-ebay-direct-version-5-0-a-241785.html
2. Read ALL the pages.
3. Compile all relevant information.
4. ?????
5. Profit.

You can thank me later


----------



## zender

haupi said:


> I'm asking for exact information from the users...


As opposed to what? Random information generated by a computer? "Exact information from the users" is what precisely what is buried in several hundred pages of posts by dozens of cyclists with firsthand experience buying and riding on open mold Chinese frames.


----------



## aquichiro

Thanks.


----------



## aquichiro

I would like to know too. That a nice looking frame.


----------



## serrone

*Miracle mt-mc 018*

this is my road bike by miracle
wheels campagnolo zonda
groupset campagnolo chorus 10v carbon
stem and handlebar deda zero 100
speedplay light action


----------



## serrone

aquichiro said:


> I would like to know too. That a nice looking frame.


i'm vincent


----------



## serrone

mtbboy41 said:


> Here is a picture of my MT-MC008
> 
> It rides really well and is much stiffer than my 2008 Specialized Roubaix Pro. I built it with a full Dura Ace Groupset. There have been a couple of niggling problems. The rear gear cable stop is mounted on the side of the chainstay and I sometimes hit it with my heel. I also had to change the carbon seat post I bought with the frame. It was the Bontrager style post and i couldn't get it to clamp the seat rails and stop it sliding back. I also broke the bolt trying to tighten it!!
> My most disappointing issue is how "soft" the rear derailleur hanger is. I need to get some spares and Miracle just don't answer emails now. Is it a common hanger?? Has anyone had any success getting a spare?


beautiful bike!!!


----------



## serrone

tihis is my bike


----------



## EightOhEight

Are any of the Chinese carbon frames suitable for internal Di2 cables? and are any suitable for an internal Di2 battery?


----------



## Teo

I now understand why people get so hung up on having these replica frames badged with real manufacturers decals. I was doing a search on ebay and came across a listing for a 2012 Pinarello Dogma frame. I took a look at some of the pics, and it’s obviously a replica. I know because I have the same frame, just rebadged of course. The worst part is that the bidding is up to $2,400 on a frame that costs jut 600 bucks. I did my part and contacted the seller about his frame being a replica and no response of course. I also contacted ebay but the listing is still up. Too bad I can’t contact the bidders, otherwise I would. It’s item 270980538762.


----------



## evankuhl

I know it sounds rough when people tell you to do your own homework, but you'll thank yourself later. I almost bought a lot of different frames in totally incorrect sizes. Luckily I spent a good 3-4 months thinking about what bike I really wanted, and going through forums. 

Make sure you measure yourself and use the competitivecyclist.com fit tool to find the right size. Use the geometry given by the Chinese manufactures to size into the correct "size" once you pick out 2-3 frames. the use your stem and crank arms, etc to get the exact fit you want. Don't forget about handlebar width. 

It also takes some luck to get a perfect fit, and it can also take some time. Don't forget to support your local bike shop by getting a good fitting once you get your bike together.


----------



## rayovolks

Teo said:


> I now understand why people get so hung up on having these replica frames badged with real manufacturers decals. I was doing a search on ebay and came across a listing for a 2012 Pinarello Dogma frame. I took a look at some of the pics, and it’s obviously a replica. I know because I have the same frame, just rebadged of course. The worst part is that the bidding is up to $2,400 on a frame that costs jut 600 bucks. I did my part and contacted the seller about his frame being a replica and no response of course. I also contacted ebay but the listing is still up. Too bad I can’t contact the bidders, otherwise I would. It’s item 270980538762.


once feedback has been left you can find out the buyer, contact them and maybe give them a serious case of "buyer's remorse."


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

The Chinese paint the frame with Made in Italy and the UCI label on it?


----------



## serrone

*Miracle mt-mc 018*





this is my road bike by miracle
wheels campagnolo zonda
groupset campagnolo chorus 10v carbon
stem and handlebar deda zero 100
speedplay light action


----------



## bmcv11

[/QUOTE]this is my road bike by miracle
wheels campagnolo zonda
groupset campagnolo chorus 10v carbon
stem and handlebar deda zero 100
speedplay light action[/QUOTE]

That is one sweet looking bike......very well done.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

EightOhEight said:


> Are any of the Chinese carbon frames suitable for internal Di2 cables? and are any suitable for an internal Di2 battery?


FM066 internal cables and I would have to check with the manufacturer, for your second question.


----------



## rayovolks

BlackDoggystyle said:


> The Chinese paint the frame with Made in Italy and the UCI label on it?


Yes. Go look at greatkeen's website and see for yourself.



Teo said:


> I now understand why people get so hung up on having these replica frames badged with real manufacturers decals. I was doing a search on ebay and came across a listing for a 2012 Pinarello Dogma frame. I took a look at some of the pics, and it’s obviously a replica. I know because I have the same frame, just rebadged of course. The worst part is that the bidding is up to $2,400 on a frame that costs jut 600 bucks. I did my part and contacted the seller about his frame being a replica and no response of course. I also contacted ebay but the listing is still up. Too bad I can’t contact the bidders, otherwise I would. It’s item 270980538762.


It sold for $2600!


----------



## Syncmaster

Someone has just setup shop in Massachusetts selling these frames (and carbon wheels) under the name Roadfox. Anyone recognize the mold?
https://www.roadfoxbicycles.com/bikes.html


----------



## ms6073

Been corresponding with Dengfu ([email protected]) and after trading e-mails with Mina over the past week, am about to finalize purchase of two of the FM059 carbon disc cyclocross framesets with the paint and logos (yes, the 'CROSS' logo on the top tube should be on each side and one not stretched). Only downside is lead time for manufactuer as I probably wont see the frames until July:


----------



## ms6073

Cant believe someone paid that much and did not notice the Neco headset in one of the images.


rayovolks said:


> It sold for $2600!


Not sure it will do any good but I reported it as counterfit and referenced the link to Greatkeen's Pinarello page which includes and image of that exact color scheme.



Syncmaster said:


> Anyone recognize the mold?
> http://www.roadfoxbicycles.com/bikes.html


Maybe this is due to the site being relatively new but that just screams scam. A quick trip around the site and in the store I see no product descriptions, geometry charts, nada.Furthermore, clicking on a button to add an item to the shopping cart does take you direclty via secure link to PayPal and the Contact Information does not list a street address, only Palmer, MA.


----------



## zender

Teo said:


> I now understand why people get so hung up on having these replica frames badged with real manufacturers decals. I was doing a search on ebay and came across a listing for a 2012 Pinarello Dogma frame. I took a look at some of the pics, and it’s obviously a replica. I know because I have the same frame, just rebadged of course. The worst part is that the bidding is up to $2,400 on a frame that costs jut 600 bucks. I did my part and contacted the seller about his frame being a replica and no response of course. I also contacted ebay but the listing is still up. Too bad I can’t contact the bidders, otherwise I would. It’s item 270980538762.


Wow that sucks for whomever plunked down 2600 bucks on the frame. It sure would be interesting to hear how the seller got hold of it, no feedback since late 2011 although it was for PT wheel, but before that no cycling stuff at all. 

At least for now, the Chinese copies have exposed roughly finished aluminum where the bottom bracket threads into the frame. On real Pina's this is covered by a (usually red) decal. I'm sure eventually this will be copied too, but it's helpful to find a forgery at a quick glance. The Nicco headset and that seatpost hardware


----------



## echtogammut

I ordered a FM066 from HongFu about a week ago and am now finalizing my build list. I ordered it with a headset, but I am contemplating installing a Cane Creek or similar headset as my experience with them has been painless. I have read all 6 episodes of this thread's saga, so I know people have installed non-Chinese headsets, but I am having difficulty finding the correct sizes to order one. Based on the 1/8"-1/2" tapered headset I am guessing it would be the same headset used in the FM015 and FM028, but I haven't seen a post where people list all the measurements for ordering a headset. I can always wait till I get the frame, but my dream is to have all the parts when it arrives.


----------



## f3rg

I hit the *4,000mi* mark on my FM015-ISP today, zero problems since I got it last May.

:thumbsup:


----------



## rick44uk

*Fm039*

Hi,

I've been a reader of this forum for nearly 2 years and an owner of a Hong Fu FM039 for nearly 1 year now. 

I thought it was about time I posted a review and some photos of my bike as I would probably not have bought it without the great advice I got from here.

The Bike:

Frame: Hong Fu FM039 (56cm)

Wheels: Yishun Stefano 38mm clinchers

Groupset: Sram Rival

Weight: 7.2kgs (with pedals and garmin)

The Build:

I used Gore Ride on sealed cables which have worked flawlessly and without any rattles!

I managed to round off the saddle clamp bolt so I replaced it with the bontrager one which fits perfect and is better as it has an internal spring to open it up.

I cut the steerer tube myself with a fine tooth hacksaw blade which was nerve racking but went smoothly in the end. To test the strength of the carbon used for the steerer I took a big hammer to the off-cut...... I had to hit it very very hard several times to cause any damage at all after which it de-laminated but was still intact!..... Very reassuring.

The wheels have been bomb proof. They are the stand out part of the bike for me...Light strong true and fast...why pay thousands when you can have these?? The only minor critisism is the brake blocks provided although good in the dry were pretty poor in the rain.
I have since replaced them with Zipp Platinums and yes they are expensive but they are also awesome in all conditions!! I have not had any issues at all with the braking surface getting hot either. Even on Mountain descents in 30c heat!

You may notice from the pictures that to finish it off I even had a custom head badge made to give it an identity."Dark side of the Moon"

All in all the build went smoothly.

The Ride:

I have ridden the bike in all conditions and I can honestly say it's fantastic. I have done over 3000 miles on countless training rides, many century sportives and loads of mountain climbs ( and obviously the descents!) 

I have never ridden a "super bike" but to me the FM039 is fantastic in every way. It's fast light stiff and strong...The only fault I have if I'm forced to find one is that it's a tiny bit "twitchy" on the front end but only when riding with one hand.

Strength test:

Last week I had the pleasure of unintentionally giving the bike a thorough crash test!
I was descending a very steep and fast section of single lane road and met a car coming the other way. Thankfully I somehow managed to miss the car but ended up slamming down HARD into 4 foot deep concrete and rock ditch!! As the driver of the car was worrying about my welfare all I could think was "Oh god no please don't let the bike be snapped in half!"
To my amazement the only damage was a scratched and slightly out of true front wheel! Oh and the cut scratched and bruised left side of my body!

To sum up the bike is awesome and is my pride and joy.

Thank you to all those who have posted their stories and advice on building these bikes up as I'm sure you'd all agree it'd be a lot harder to do without this forum!


----------



## dr. locktopus

Love the head badge!


----------



## Tswifty

rick44uk said:


> Wall Of Text


Is that a Ritchy headset i spy? Very nice touch there was there any issue installing it?
Also the head badge. How did you get that to stay there?


----------



## mrcreosote

*Yishun CX01 (Dengfu FM058)*

Just some pics of my Yishun CX01 (same as Dengfu FM058), starting with the way the box arrived, and the build so far. The theme is 'black is the new black'

To preempt the comments, yes there is 40mm of spacers under the stem. Unfortunately, I am not a flexible as I used to be (and it the same as my road bike, anyway).

I am just waiting on some spares for the Chorus Ergolevers that came from the road bike (which now goes up to 11), which I only realised i needed once I pulled them apart to replace the springs.


----------



## blend76

*FM015 in UD*









I built my second FM015. Now in UD with an ISP. I will need to take better pictures, but I thought I would share already.


----------



## Christopha

Took my FM098 for my first real ride today, up to Kinglake (Vic, Australia) from Melbourne and back in the wet.

Overall, very happy with it, replaced a 58cm Specialized Tarmac with a 61cm FM098.with 50mm DengFu clincher wheels.

Pros - very stiff, handles big-ring climbs well and most importantly; descends very well, geometry is spot on for a Clydesdale-sized frame.

Cons - Frame was 150g heavier than advertised, wheels were 100g heavier so not the superlight bike I'd hoped for.

Spec list is:
61cm FM098 frame & fork, 3K gloss
50mm carbon clincher wheels on Novatec hubs with Pillar bladed spokes
2 x Carbon cages from eBay
44cm RavX Hemion bars
120mm UNO stem
Alligator iLink cables
Tioga Spyder Twin Tail saddle
Gommitalia Blitz tyres
Gommitalia tubes (regular)
Lizard Skinz DSP 2.5 tape
GUB Ti skewers
GUB ceramic jockey wheels
Neco headset with KCNC top cap & generic carbon spacers
Look KEO sprint pedals
Full Ultegra dark grey groupset
Token chain-catcher & bottle bolts

Total cost was $2,500AUD without a group buy discount.

Overall with Garmin weighs in at 7.7kg which is not much of an improvement over the old Tarmac. That said, it's very stiff compared to the Tarmac and feels very stable on the downhills. The Ultegra groupset is awesome, love it, shifts well and the crankset is very stiff for a 95kg climber to mash on.

Internal routing was great, needed a quick clean out with the compressor but once done, routing was simple.

iLink cables are awesome! Took time to set up correctly but now done they're fantastic. I read a few poor internet reviews but after getting my hands on them, I think the poor reviews are a result of poor installation - if you're not a confident mechanic - I would suggest buying 'Odyssey Linear Slic Kables' and using the housing for gears and brakes instead as they're much easier.

Wheels were a surprise - I expected the worst but they were great, spun very well and the supplied brake pads work fine, even in the wet. By the descent I was totally trusting the wheels and brakes and set a PB down Kinglake.

So far, after 90km - I would do this again, next time I would probably go a lighter frame and spend a little more on parts. I reckon a sub 7kg, XL frame is very possible.


----------



## rbart4506

Dajianshan said:


> I know some folks who have a branded version of the FM028 and they love it for crits, climbs and races.... not long distance.


I believe I have one, the ISP version...

Still working on the build...Trying to decide if i should replace the seat mast topper...I do not like the design and inability to adjust the saddle tilt easily...

Besides that, the frame looks good and I'll be interested to see and ride the final product...


----------



## Black37

Looking great!! I have been wanting to see a couple of these built up!

1) What did they charge you for the frame through Yishun?

2) What wheelset is that? And who did you get your wheelset through?

That frame looks even better than I thought it might. Congrats!



mrcreosote said:


> Just some pics of my Yishun CX01 (same as Dengfu FM058), starting with the way the box arrived, and the build so far. The theme is 'black is the new black'
> 
> To preempt the comments, yes there is 40mm of spacers under the stem. Unfortunately, I am not a flexible as I used to be (and it the same as my road bike, anyway).
> 
> I am just waiting on some spares for the Chorus Ergolevers that came from the road bike (which now goes up to 11), which I only realised i needed once I pulled them apart to replace the springs.


----------



## mrcreosote

Black37 said:


> Looking great!! I have been wanting to see a couple of these built up!
> 
> 1) What did they charge you for the frame through Yishun?
> 
> 2) What wheelset is that? And who did you get your wheelset through?
> 
> That frame looks even better than I thought it might. Congrats!


1) $485USD + shipping (only offered 3K and BB30)
2) Wheelset is Kinlin XR380 Rims (can't remember who I got them through, but they are easy to find eg XR380 ) + Pillar PSR X-TRA 1422 Butted Aero spokes (Pillar-Spokes) + hubs from Spin Industries Light Fast & Beautiful Weapons Grade Titanium Bikes (via ebay Item number: 130430691475 ) - about 1650gms all up

thanks and regards

MrC.


----------



## rbart4506

Anyone happen to know the torque spec on the seat mast topper for a FM028, both the torque on the mast itself and the clamp on the saddle?


----------



## csneom4a1

Just finished my FM015 from hong fu. The hanger came mis-aligned and when I put a spare on it, it was also mis aligned. LBS bent the hanger into shape. The bottom pulley of the rear derailleur looked way off at an angle which made me think the hanger was not aligned. Leaving some extra spacers on top and bottom until I get my fit dialed in. This was the first bike I actually built up myself. 16.5 lbs without the saddle bag.










FM015 with ergo bars from Hong Fu
Force group
Blackset Race Wheels


Rode it 10 miles today and it rode nice, needed a slight tune up and more dialing in of the fit. Only complaint is the brake cable in the top tube rattles all the time and is driving me crazy. I need to figure out how to quit it down. Any suggestions?


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

Anyone who managed to get decals from Marco? How does he work? You give him a picture of what it needs to look like and he creates the images in vector format?

I am having problems and I think it is the language? He only speaks Portugese? How do I convert a .psd photoshop file into vector format? Did a search online and there seems to have so many applications that cna or cannot do that? Ideas guys?


----------



## timsen

Hi Guys,

Just finished with the decals. Not all the decals went perfect. But at the end I am happy with the result.


----------



## JasonDT

*Flyxii steerer problem*

Hi all,

First post, although I have been reading the chinese carbon thread for a while now.

I'm trying to build up a Flyxii TT frame at the moment, and I'm having problems with the steerer. Basically it's not perfectly round, so it's not possible to slide a spacer or stem down it. I've cut it to roughly the right size, and checked for an excess of clearcoat, and it's made no difference. If you slip a spacer over the end, you can see the steerer is not circular, it almost looks oval.

Has anybody else come up against this issue before? I've mailed Flyxii about the steerer issue, believing it to be just excess clearcoat, but now I've cut the steerer down it's become more obvious that the steerer shape is the problem.

Pretty frustrated, as I'm itching to get it built up and race it.


----------



## phil_the_gap

chucksgaul said:


> cansprint, thanks for the reply, i think i'm learning the hard way here.. i noticed that their website had plenty of negative feedback from people in my position and they wiped it all off but are responding to new sales on there. it's a frustrating experience. I'm sure the majority of companies discussed on here provide a good service... feel like a total sucker for picking the dodgy one. so if this is a warning to anyone... go careful if you deal with Cyclingyong


Just read your posts re Cycling Yong and my hear sank! I have ordered a frame and bars from the company (2 weeks ago). Have just emailed to ask whether it has been shipped but no reply yet. Did you have any luck in either getting your frame or a refund from PayPal?


----------



## tarzan13

Very nice result Timsen


----------



## Teo

Teo said:


> I was actually trying out the hairspray idea last night when I stipped the bolt on the setpost clamp. Now I need a new clamp.
> 
> What frame have you trid this idea on?


I tried the hairspray idea and to my great surprise it worked.


----------



## CabDoctor

Maybe this has already been covered, but has anyone done a direct comparison between the FM-098 and its OBVIOUS inspiration? I'm really tempted to pull the trigger on it.


----------



## jonoir

timsen said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Just finished with the decals. Not all the decals went perfect. But at the end I am happy with the result.


Looks amazing Timsen !!

You've got me thinking about sticking some decals on mine now :idea::idea::idea:


----------



## Tswifty

tonyyangdu said:


> hello friend ,thanks for all, This is tony writing . I come from Dengfu. If friends like FM098 , pls contact us. best regards
> tony


I believe he was stating to could someone make a comparison maybe Geo charts betweent he FM098 and Spec Venge.



jonoir said:


> Looks amazing Timsen !!
> 
> You've got me thinking about sticking some decals on mine now :idea::idea::idea:


Or you get it painted on


----------



## mjdwyer23

CabDoctor said:


> Maybe this has already been covered, but has anyone done a direct comparison between the FM-098 and its OBVIOUS inspiration? I'm really tempted to pull the trigger on it.


Its profile looks similar, but the tube shapes are quite different as is the cable routing.


----------



## CabDoctor

So not nearly as stiff or aero


----------



## zender

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Anyone who managed to get decals from Marco? How does he work? You give him a picture of what it needs to look like and he creates the images in vector format?
> 
> I am having problems and I think it is the language? He only speaks Portugese? How do I convert a .psd photoshop file into vector format? Did a search online and there seems to have so many applications that cna or cannot do that? Ideas guys?


I just went through this.

1- he only speaks Portugese. So, use Google translate or something similar. Will make life easier.
2- You can send him jpgs of the decals with sizes or use the blank bike template on his website, or your own blank template, to show him what you want.
3 - If you're trying to reproduce an existing design (of course, not a copyrighted one, that would be illegal ) just email him pictures of what you're looking for
4- he will send you a jpg of his finished product for you to approve or modify.
5- shipping took almost three weeks to the US after I received a tracking number. I guess it came by llama (do they have llamas in Brazil?).
6- He recommends clearcoating over them (in gloss or flat, depending on your frame). I decided not to do this. Yes, they don't look as integral to the paintjob, but if I want to change the whole look of the bike next year, it'll be simpler than removing coated decals.


----------



## timsen

jonoir said:


> Looks amazing Timsen !!
> 
> You've got me thinking about sticking some decals on mine now :idea::idea::idea:


Just Do It!


----------



## jordo_99

Got my Dengfu FM098 (and handlebars/stem) last week and built up over the weekend and took it for two rides...It's definitely stiff and fast. Very surprised how confident I am bombing downhill in it (go faster and much more stable than before).

Here's a picture of it...I'm still waiting on a new saddle that's in the mail and I'll be switching the tires to all black instead of the white/black ones that are a bit tasteless, IMO.

Full album is at Pictures by jpowel12 - Photobucket



















It's already close to 7kg but with the new saddle and tires it should be slightly under (my figures below reflect these changes...but a few weights aren't measured and likely will add up to 75g)

I'm also planning on adding decals in the future but haven't decided what I want to do yet...likely matching blue on the fork, head tube and chain stays with glossy black on the seat tube and down tubes but I still don't know what I want the text to say.


----------



## ptsbike55

Jordo,
Which handlebar is that?


----------



## jordo_99

ptsbike55 said:


> Jordo,
> Which handlebar is that?


 Dengfu HB003.

For the price I think they'll pretty nice. The drops are a little smaller than I'd like for my hands without thick (cork) bar tape but the tops fit my hands very nicely. I'll also a fan of ergo drops for what it's worth and these soak up road vibration quite well


----------



## rayovolks

where were Ultremo R1's available at $50/pair?


----------



## MTBMaven

timsen said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Just finished with the decals. Not all the decals went perfect. But at the end I am happy with the result.


Looks like you were inspired by Mathot without the colored bits:









I wanted to do something similar but Dengfu will not reproduce the design as they do the painting for Mathot. Me suspects one could have Hongfu or one of the others making the FM098 (if others make that mold - not sure actually).


----------



## lawrencium262

*Mt-053*

Hi,
I'm new to the forum. I just received my MT-053. Unfortunately there seems to be a problem with the fork. One of my friends (who's a carbon engineer) told me after seeing the picture that it could be that the balloon's pressure wasn't high enough during the molding. I've sent the picture to Miracle Trade and the engineers think it's only cosmetic and that it is safe to ride. Here are the pictures, can you help me decide if it's rideable or not:


----------



## jordo_99

rayovolks said:


> where were Ultremo R1's available at $50/pair?


I got 3 of them for $65 shipped off ebay. One of which was used and had about 1/2 of the wear left on it. I think they went for so cheap because they were listed as "3 used Schwalbe Ultremo R1" but in the description it said that they originally had 4 tires, after a month of riding 1 of them failed and was replaced for a few rides before switching to a new kind of tire all together. (so I got 1 new tire, 1 very lightly used tire, and one tire with about half worn)


----------



## Bridgey

lawrencium262 said:


> Hi,
> I'm new to the forum. I just received my MT-053. Unfortunately there seems to be a problem with the fork. One of my friends (who's a carbon engineer) told me after seeing the picture that it could be that the balloon's pressure wasn't high enough during the molding. I've sent the picture to Miracle Trade and the engineers think it's only cosmetic and that it is safe to ride. Here are the pictures, can you help me decide if it's rideable or not:


My opinion is that because it isn't in a place likely to crack (contact point down the bottom) it should be safe. It's not nice and it would be good for them to replace it, but if not, you won't be able to see it and should be safe as there isn't really any pressure on that part, even if you hit a big bump. That is why they have increased the diameter of the bottom to make them stronger, etc around the contact points, My opinion only. I'm no carbon engineer. Just been around bikes for 25+ years..


----------



## hotskillet

I just recieved same frame from ICAN. One huge thing that pissed me off, they failed to tell me that the seatpost has no angle adjustment. Is the Greatkeen post the same way? 
A 52 frame came in at 1080 grams, uncut 1.125-1.25 tapered fork came in at 405 grams. Front triangle is shorter than typical Chinarello.

For intercal cabnle routing. does everyone run telfon housing where possible and the outside cable housing recesses in carbon frame with no ferrule?


----------



## Vee

hotskillet said:


> I just recieved same frame from ICAN. One huge thing that pissed me off, they failed to tell me that the seatpost has no angle adjustment. Is the Greatkeen post the same way?
> A 52 frame came in at 1080 grams, uncut 1.125-1.25 tapered fork came in at 405 grams. Front triangle is shorter than typical Chinarello.
> 
> For intercal cabnle routing. does everyone run telfon housing where possible and the outside cable housing recesses in carbon frame with no ferrule?


I have never encountered a seatpost without angle adjustment. Care to post a pic?


----------



## Allshownogo

Hi All,

I'm a lurker from the UK, but I've been dredging my way through the posts on here as I'm a current - and very happy - user of a Chinese carbon frame.

A few years back now I got back into time trialling after abut 12 years out of the sport, and the first thing I did was to sell my old aluminium Giant TCR Aero and buy a carbon frame to build up with my old Dura Ace 9 speed. That frame was an Axman TS3 and it did the job, although it was always too long on the top tube due to buying the largest size just so I could get enough seat mast for my ultra long legs (I'm 6'5"). This I rode for 2010 and just enjoyed racing again.
However last year I started getting more serious once more, and so I wanted a non-ISP model that would be shorter in the top tube, but allow me the leg length space for my legs.
After much umming and ahhing I settled on an FM018 that I had custom painted from Carbonzone on eBay.
That frame is now my main TT bike, and the old body is now doing some half decent times once more (23:43 for 10 miles so far this year).
I was so impressed that I brought a road frame for my wife, which again was custom painted to our own design after about two weeks of work in photoshop by both of us to get it right. This was also ordered from Carbonzone, and has also been faultless.

Now this year I've been racking up the mileage and hopefully some time this year we'll get some good news on the arrival of tiny feet 
This has focused the bike riding conscious as I'm sure once a baby arrives in 2013 I can forget about exotic carbon toys in my garage, and concentrate on prams and buggies instead!

My main road bike for many many years now has been a classic Giant TCR Carbon Comp in the ONCE colours. This bike is still in superb condition, and is light as a feather, as well as having superb road manners........there's just one problem........
No matter what tricks I've tried I cannot get it to stop creaking when my 93KG is out of the saddle and stomping on the pedals! This winter I even totally rebuilt it complete with new headset bearings, and bottom bracket cups, and still the ruddy thing creaks!

Now my local bike shop has a rather tasty Scott Foil in the window in banana yellow, and it got my brain ticking on an idea for a new project.
That idea led me to the Dengfu FM098, and so to you guys!

Who out there stocks the FM098, and can custom paint it in a design of my choice? (it would be bare 3K carbon and a LOT of yellow!)
Carbonzone don't do it (I asked), so I was wondering who else because Dengfu don't seem to be replying to emails so far this week. The FM098 also appears to be the lightest beastie out there at the moment.
If not the FM098 what else is out there that is sub 1100g, and who to talk to?


----------



## jordo_99

Bridgey said:


> My opinion is that because it isn't in a place likely to crack (contact point down the bottom) it should be safe. It's not nice and it would be good for them to replace it, but if not, you won't be able to see it and should be safe as there isn't really any pressure on that part, even if you hit a big bump. That is why they have increased the diameter of the bottom to make them stronger, etc around the contact points, My opinion only. I'm no carbon engineer. Just been around bikes for 25+ years..


I agree with Bridgey...it's not a contact point so there shouldn't be much stress on that part of the carbon so it should be usable.

With a properly installed headset the pressure will be completely on the parts where the bearings and crown race sit and the tubing that is coming out the top.

...however, if it were me, I'd be upset and threaten to file a paypal dispute if they won't exchange it because something like that shouldn't be making it to customers.
I consider it to be the equivalent of buying a brand new car. You sign the paperwork and then go out to the car and suddenly it's got a dent or a rip in the seat and you complain...they tell you it drives fine so deal with it...unacceptable.
However, I'm also crazy about stuff like that and an example is that I tripled the time I spent on my parent's house because of imperfections that "I knew were there" but my parents couldn't even see and were still structurally sound ...so if I knew the fork is like that it would drive me nuts.

If you want/need the bike ASAP consider using it but if you're not in a hurry then definitely send it back. It's unlikely that it would fail but when forks fail they fail BAD and you're going to go down HARD (at least with other failures you can steer and try to aim your fall...etc)


----------



## jordo_99

Allshownogo said:


> Hi All,
> ...
> Who out there stocks the FM098, and can custom paint it in a design of my choice? (it would be bare 3K carbon and a LOT of yellow!)
> Carbonzone don't do it (I asked), so I was wondering who else because Dengfu don't seem to be replying to emails so far this week. The FM098 also appears to be the lightest beastie out there at the moment.
> If not the FM098 what else is out there that is sub 1100g, and who to talk to?


I don't know of anyone else carrying the FM098 but here's the email I used for them...usually got a response within a day or two. I've also PMed you to the place that is finalizing a group buy on Friday (if that's not too soon for you).

The FM066 is supposed to be the new "light bike" and is made with stronger carbon to do this (also a group buy at site I'm PMing you). It's supposed to come in about 100-150g lighter than the FM098 but it's a more traditional frame and doesn't look quite as aero. It's looks like a Cervelo R-series (R3 and R5 mix if I remember correctly) bike


----------



## Teo

hotskillet said:


> I just recieved same frame from ICAN. One huge thing that pissed me off, they failed to tell me that the seatpost has no angle adjustment. Is the Greatkeen post the same way?
> A 52 frame came in at 1080 grams, uncut 1.125-1.25 tapered fork came in at 405 grams. Front triangle is shorter than typical Chinarello.
> 
> For intercal cabnle routing. does everyone run telfon housing where possible and the outside cable housing recesses in carbon frame with no ferrule?


For a Greatkeen seatposts you basically use the front and rear bolts to adjust the angle. Tighten the front one and the nose goes down. It took me a bit to get it just right.

I use ferrules on my internal cabling frame. My frame had housing in the frame already so just used that.


----------



## sandman77

Teo said:


> For a Greatkeen seatposts you basically use the front and rear bolts to adjust the angle. Tighten the front one and the nose goes down. It took me a bit to get it just right.
> 
> I use ferrules on my internal cabling frame. My frame had housing in the frame already so just used that.


You kept the housing within the frame? How does that work?


----------



## Bridgey

Teo said:


> For a Greatkeen seatposts you basically use the front and rear bolts to adjust the angle. Tighten the front one and the nose goes down. It took me a bit to get it just right.
> 
> I use ferrules on my internal cabling frame. My frame had housing in the frame already so just used that.


I tightened My Chinarello aero seatpost front bolt all the way down, even to the point I heard it screw into the carbon a little. Yet my seat is maybe level at best. Is there a way I can get it pointing a little down (1 to 2%).


----------



## Allshownogo

jordo_99 said:


> I don't know of anyone else carrying the FM098 but here's the email I used for them...usually got a response within a day or two. I've also PMed you to the place that is finalizing a group buy on Friday (if that's not too soon for you).
> 
> The FM066 is supposed to be the new "light bike" and is made with stronger carbon to do this (also a group buy at site I'm PMing you). It's supposed to come in about 100-150g lighter than the FM098 but it's a more traditional frame and doesn't look quite as aero. It's looks like a Cervelo R-series (R3 and R5 mix if I remember correctly) bike


Thanks Jordo.......can't reply to your PM yet (not enough posts)
Looking at the FM066 I think it's possibly going to be a bit too fragile for my 6'5" 206lb body.

It's probably going to be an FM098 then, as long as I can get it in a good colour scheme of my choice!


----------



## fab4

Bridgey said:


> I tightened My Chinarello aero seatpost front bolt all the way down, even to the point I heard it screw into the carbon a little. Yet my seat is maybe level at best. Is there a way I can get it pointing a little down (1 to 2%).


What's the easiest way to tighten the fron bolt on the RFM201 (Chinarello) aero seatpost? I can't seem to fit a hex wrench unless I use a saddle with a hole in the middle.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

zender said:


> I just went through this.
> 
> 1- he only speaks Portugese. So, use Google translate or something similar. Will make life easier.
> 2- You can send him jpgs of the decals with sizes or use the blank bike template on his website, or your own blank template, to show him what you want.
> 3 - If you're trying to reproduce an existing design (of course, not a copyrighted one, that would be illegal ) just email him pictures of what you're looking for
> 4- he will send you a jpg of his finished product for you to approve or modify.
> 5- shipping took almost three weeks to the US after I received a tracking number. I guess it came by llama (do they have llamas in Brazil?).
> 6- He recommends clearcoating over them (in gloss or flat, depending on your frame). I decided not to do this. Yes, they don't look as integral to the paintjob, but if I want to change the whole look of the bike next year, it'll be simpler than removing coated decals.


cheers for that ... i managed to figure it out ... i had to re-do my graphics on illustrator ... well not exactly ... i made sure my photoshop (.psd) document are all in layers of shapes or fonts and just went into illustrator to convert to (.eps)

_i don't think there are llamas in brazil ... all in the highlands, but could be wrong ... googled it and it came back as yes in a postcard in 1970s ... could all be extinct in brazil by now ..._

i will just put a frame protector over it ... that way i can remove it in future ... :wink:


----------



## Jimflip

Thanks Zender,

I was beginning to be concerned about my decals being lost by in the mail when I read your post.

(although I suspect my decals are coming via sloth, not llama...)

Rgds
J.


----------



## ptsbike55

My decals took a little over a month.


----------



## hotskillet

Teo said:


> For a Greatkeen seatposts you basically use the front and rear bolts to adjust the angle. Tighten the front one and the nose goes down. It took me a bit to get it just right.
> 
> I use ferrules on my internal cabling frame. My frame had housing in the frame already so just used that.


ICAN only gave me Teflon tubing in the top tube and rear triangle.. The downtube was missing Teflon tubing. I tried to explain the seat problem and missing teflon.. They said "I don't understand what you say"...Now I'm at a halt in the build waiting for 2 meters of teflon tube to come in the mail.

I took your advise on the seatpost. There is probably 2 degrees of adjustment, max.


----------



## jimlmackjr

Ok i about to pull the trigger and order a FM039 . is this frame is a copy to the Specialized Verge (iunderstand it not exact copy)
and i had some ? for the guys that have built them 
1. what is the differant in the carbon 3k, UD, 12k
2. how does the it ride
3. should i go ISP or Regular Post 
4.Should i get a BB30 and add the insert for a BSA BB (getting a bb30 is for future cranks) 
i am transplanting my Trek / Sram parts to this frame

thanks for the info

yes i have read a lot of the posted like other it hard to really send the money out and no really know the qualty


----------



## B12B12

Hello - Really sorry If I am posted this in the wrong place but I have some CyclingYong Most Talon Bars with computer mount in white that are much too big for me at 110x42 - Am I allowed to advertise them for sale on this site as I dont want to put them on ebay ?
Thanks 
Steve


----------



## Tswifty

jimlmackjr said:


> Ok i about to pull the trigger and order a FM039 . is this frame is a copy to the Specialized Verge (iunderstand it not exact copy)
> and i had some ? for the guys that have built them
> 1. what is the differant in the carbon 3k, UD, 12k
> 2. how does the it ride
> 3. should i go ISP or Regular Post
> 4.Should i get a BB30 and add the insert for a BSA BB (getting a bb30 is for future cranks)
> i am transplanting my Trek / Sram parts to this frame
> 
> thanks for the info
> 
> yes i have read a lot of the posted like other it hard to really send the money out and no really know the qualty


The Venge look alike is the FM098 not the FM039 also
If you looked a few pages(or post depending on how you view the forum) back you would have seen this post about the FM039.



rick44uk said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've been a reader of this forum for nearly 2 years and an owner of a Hong Fu FM039 for nearly 1 year now.
> 
> I thought it was about time I posted a review and some photos of my bike as I would probably not have bought it without the great advice I got from here.
> 
> The Bike:
> 
> Frame: Hong Fu FM039 (56cm)
> 
> Wheels: Yishun Stefano 38mm clinchers
> 
> Groupset: Sram Rival
> 
> Weight: 7.2kgs (with pedals and garmin)
> 
> The Build:
> 
> I used Gore Ride on sealed cables which have worked flawlessly and without any rattles!
> 
> I managed to round off the saddle clamp bolt so I replaced it with the bontrager one which fits perfect and is better as it has an internal spring to open it up.
> 
> I cut the steerer tube myself with a fine tooth hacksaw blade which was nerve racking but went smoothly in the end. To test the strength of the carbon used for the steerer I took a big hammer to the off-cut...... I had to hit it very very hard several times to cause any damage at all after which it de-laminated but was still intact!..... Very reassuring.
> 
> The wheels have been bomb proof. They are the stand out part of the bike for me...Light strong true and fast...why pay thousands when you can have these?? The only minor critisism is the brake blocks provided although good in the dry were pretty poor in the rain.
> I have since replaced them with Zipp Platinums and yes they are expensive but they are also awesome in all conditions!! I have not had any issues at all with the braking surface getting hot either. Even on Mountain descents in 30c heat!
> 
> You may notice from the pictures that to finish it off I even had a custom head badge made to give it an identity."Dark side of the Moon"
> 
> All in all the build went smoothly.
> 
> The Ride:
> 
> I have ridden the bike in all conditions and I can honestly say it's fantastic. I have done over 3000 miles on countless training rides, many century sportives and loads of mountain climbs ( and obviously the descents!)
> 
> I have never ridden a "super bike" but to me the FM039 is fantastic in every way. It's fast light stiff and strong...The only fault I have if I'm forced to find one is that it's a tiny bit "twitchy" on the front end but only when riding with one hand.
> 
> Strength test:
> 
> Last week I had the pleasure of unintentionally giving the bike a thorough crash test!
> I was descending a very steep and fast section of single lane road and met a car coming the other way. Thankfully I somehow managed to miss the car but ended up slamming down HARD into 4 foot deep concrete and rock ditch!! As the driver of the car was worrying about my welfare all I could think was "Oh god no please don't let the bike be snapped in half!"
> To my amazement the only damage was a scratched and slightly out of true front wheel! Oh and the cut scratched and bruised left side of my body!
> 
> To sum up the bike is awesome and is my pride and joy.
> 
> Thank you to all those who have posted their stories and advice on building these bikes up as I'm sure you'd all agree it'd be a lot harder to do without this forum!


----------



## zender

jimlmackjr said:


> 1. what is the differant in the carbon 3k, UD, 12k
> 2. how does the it ride
> 3. should i go ISP or Regular Post
> 4.Should i get a BB30 and add the insert for a BSA BB (getting a bb30 is for future cranks)
> i am transplanting my Trek / Sram parts to this frame


This is 12K weave (12,000 fibers per thread)









This is 3K weave









I can't find a good closeup of UD (unidirectional) carbon. FSA carbon cranks and many mountain handlebars, fork carbon steerers are UD. The fibers actually look a bit haphazzard rather than actually all parallel.

All of this is just the outer cosmetic layer. What's underneath, unless someone is going to cut up their frame and tell us, we don't know. On my ISP frame, when I cut the tube, it looked like 3K underneath, but I didn't try to delaminate it completely.

2. Though I have 2 chinese frames, neither is the Venge clone so I'll leave that to others to answer.
3. Having had both, I say conventional post especially if the seat-tube takes a round seatpost so you can buy the post of your choice. The ISP toppers are heavy on these frames, the seat clamping mechanisms are not well executed, you have to cut the frame (making it harder to dial in your fit, harder to resell if you go too short etc), it's harder to transport the bike if you travel. I just don't think it's worth the tradeoff of the cooler look.
4. BSA vs BB30 is a whole discussion in itself. I have both, the difference in real world use is minimal. If you currently have a standard BSA crank that you intend on keeping for a while, don't get a BB30 frame with adapter. BSA isn't going anywhere for a while, Shimano hasn't adopted BB30 so that should tell you something. If you want to try something new since it's a new frame, ebay your current crank and go BB30. 

What Trek are you replacing? If it's a relatively recent Madone, I don't think you're going to be getting much improvement by going with an open mold Chinese frame.


----------



## xristosrho

*carbon bike rfm106*

hi
interested to buying a frame from greatkeenbike ,frame RFM106 .
can someone help me telling me if it have problems, have this bike anyone ??

thanks!!


----------



## Bridgey

zender said:


> 4. BSA vs BB30 is a whole discussion in itself. I have both, the difference in real world use is minimal. If you currently have a standard BSA crank that you intend on keeping for a while, don't get a BB30 frame with adapter. BSA isn't going anywhere for a while, Shimano hasn't adopted BB30 so that should tell you something. If you want to try something new since it's a new frame, ebay your current crank and go BB30.


The other thing to consider here is to put in a sleeve into BB30 you need to have it pressed in by your LBS or make a home made press like I have and you also need to loctite the sleeve in. This will make it difficult getting back out again. So in my opinion make your decision now if you want BB30 or the standard 68mm and get the cranks to fit.

My friend just bought the FM039. It looked like a sweet ride. I prefer the FM098 or Chinarello myself. But it was sweet. UD looks the best in my opinion, with 3k my 2nd choice. Don't go for an ISP unless you really know what you're doing and have been professionally set up.


----------



## Bridgey

A question of my own. I have done some searches and can't find anything.

How do I micro adjust my seat on a chinarello seatpost. I want it pointing a bit more down 1 to 2 degrees. I have it dead level, but already have the front bolt screwed into the carbon a little. 

Should I be drilling a hole into it? I tried loosening it first and then moving it all the way to the front and then tightening it. Can't seem to work it out. It is rideable level, but like it to be a little more comfortable.


----------



## Dersnap

I been looking at possibly doing this frame fork combo in white FM001 +FK 001. I notice there is a few different paint jobs but I am guessing all of these are not showing the carbon?

Also has anyone compared this. I found it looked very similar to a few bikes in a local bike store in the 5K +euro range. I think I will build it up with Chris King and Velocity A23 wheels. Maybe a Tune Fast foot crank?
Not sure the groupo

http://www.e-hongfu-bikes.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=241 forgot the link


----------



## jimlmackjr

ok now i got the nuber right it wil be the FM098 i want the VERGE looking frame 
now i looked and HONGFU dont carry a FM098 but DENG FU does are they the same company and if they are not how should i deal with at that company 

i am replacing a Trek 1.2 Alpha so going Carbon for my first bike and i like the Specialized Verge frame i am not going to get the BB30 thanks for that help and im going to get a non-ISP post with the 12K fiber


----------



## ms6073

Rainerhq said:


> Anybody bought FM059?


Ordered two of the Fm059 (non-ISP) with the following graphics and ended up paying just a tad bit over the cost of what I would have paid for a single 2013 Ridley X-Fire disc frame but probably wont see delivery until early July.








:


----------



## the mayor

ms6073 said:


> Ordered two of the Fm059 (non-ISP) with the following graphics and ended up paying just a tad bit over the cost of what I would have paid for a single 2013 Ridley X-Fire disc frame but probably wont see delivery until early July.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :


What rear wheel spacing do those have?


----------



## r00kie

Sorry for being a nooby McNoobstein, but which site is the correct HongFu?

http://www.hongfu-bikes.com
or
http://www.e-hongfu-bikes.com
or
both?


----------



## Bridgey

jimlmackjr said:


> ok now i got the nuber right it wil be the FM098 i want the VERGE looking frame
> now i looked and HONGFU dont carry a FM098 but DENG FU does are they the same company and if they are not how should i deal with at that company
> 
> i am replacing a Trek 1.2 Alpha so going Carbon for my first bike and i like the Specialized Verge frame i am not going to get the BB30 thanks for that help and im going to get a non-ISP post with the 12K fiber


The FM098 is a nice ride. Not exactly like the Venge, but close enough to the un experienced eye. Should be some aero benefits to the frame. Do yourself a favour though and don't label it as a Venge. 

As for 12k, it is normally reserved for the cheaper carbon frames and is a cheaper quality than the 3k or UD. IF you want your bike to look like a Venge you should go Matte. IF not 3k. But hey it's your bike.


----------



## Bridgey

ms6073 said:


> Ordered two of the Fm059 (non-ISP) with the following graphics and ended up paying just a tad bit over the cost of what I would have paid for a single 2013 Ridley X-Fire disc frame but probably wont see delivery until early July.


Nice looking ride. Love the colours. Much prefer 2 of those over 1 of the Ridley X-Fire's. Nice buy. Hopefully the mainstream sellers will start reducing their prices. They've certainly already taken all of the cost saving shortcuts.


----------



## mrcreosote

r00kie said:


> Sorry for being a nooby McNoobstein, but which site is the correct HongFu?
> 
> HongFu Sports Equipment CO.,LTD - HongFu Sports Equipment CO.,LTD
> or
> E-hongfu-Bikes
> or
> both?


both are correct - e-hongfu-bikes is the web store, although you are usually better off contacting them direct


----------



## jimlmackjr

Bridgey said:


> The FM098 is a nice ride. Not exactly like the Venge, but close enough to the un experienced eye. Should be some aero benefits to the frame. Do yourself a favour though and don't label it as a Venge.


Heck no im not even going to put anything but my nick name and sram and i might put in the down tube IT-WORKS (LOL) 



Bridgey said:


> As for 12k, it is normally reserved for the cheaper carbon frames and is a cheaper quality than the 3k or UD. IF you want your bike to look like a Venge you should go Matte. IF not 3k. But hey it's your bike.


so the 12k is the cheaper carbon i was thinking the 3k was elcheapo 
im trying to make it as close to the Verge but not making it exact


----------



## ms6073

the mayor said:


> What rear wheel spacing do those have?


Rear spacing is 135 and BB30 bottom bracket although I would have preferred PF30 but Dengfu has not yet adopted that standard. The frameset was the easy part as now I have to also figure out what I am going to do to replace 5-sets of Easton EC90 SL/SX wheelsets? The SLs are 18/24 and the SX are 20/24 spoke counts so rebuilding with disc compatible hubs wont work to well.


----------



## turbogrover

ms6073 said:


> Rear spacing is 135 and BB30 bottom bracket although I would have preferred PF30 but Dengfu has not yet adopted that standard. The frameset was the easy part as now I have to also figure out what I am going to do to replace 5-sets of Easton EC90 SL/SX wheelsets? The SLs are 18/24 and the SX are 20/24 spoke counts so rebuilding with disc compatible hubs wont work to well.


I would assume you'd want at least a 24 spoke wheel with a disc anyway. I'm sure you could sell those wheelsets and recoup some money for disc wheelsets.

What is the current 'cross setup for a disc wheel build? I'm looking at getting the same frameset.


----------



## zigmeister

Bridgey said:


> The other thing to consider here is to put in a sleeve into BB30 you need to have it pressed in by your LBS or make a home made press like I have and you also need to loctite the sleeve in. This will make it difficult getting back out again. So in my opinion make your decision now if you want BB30 or the standard 68mm and get the cranks to fit.
> 
> My friend just bought the FM039. It looked like a sweet ride. I prefer the FM098 or Chinarello myself. But it was sweet. UD looks the best in my opinion, with 3k my 2nd choice. Don't go for an ISP unless you really know what you're doing and have been professionally set up.


I wouldn't recommend anybody loctite BB30 bearings unless you absolutely have to due to creaking noises that can't be resolved with greasing them.

Just grease and pressing them into place should be all you need to do. Otherwise, there is something wrong with the tolerances of the bearings or shell. If it is just a slight squeaking sound that can't be resolved, then as a last resort, loctite can be used.


----------



## ms6073

turbogrover said:


> What is the current 'cross setup for a disc wheel build? I'm looking at getting the same frameset.


Cant really say for certain but I posted a question about 24/24 vs 24/28 vs 28/28 spoke counts in the Cyclocross forum here at over at WW so hopefully it will get some good comments. Personally, I would like to go wiht 24/24 because then I can use Novatec's lightweight CX disc hubs which with some wider 38mm carbon tubulars could yield a ~1400-1500 gram wheelset.


----------



## mrcreosote

ms6073 said:


> Rear spacing is 135 and BB30 bottom bracket although I would have preferred PF30 but Dengfu has not yet adopted that standard. The frameset was the easy part as now I have to also figure out what I am going to do to replace 5-sets of Easton EC90 SL/SX wheelsets? The SLs are 18/24 and the SX are 20/24 spoke counts so rebuilding with disc compatible hubs wont work to well.


You may be out of luck with front hubs, but Novatec D612SB is a 135mm, 24 hole, 6-bolt disc hub, in both shimano and campagnolo

http://www.bdopcycling.com/Hubs-CX.asp


----------



## Bridgey

zigmeister said:


> I wouldn't recommend anybody loctite BB30 bearings unless you absolutely have to due to creaking noises that can't be resolved with greasing them.
> 
> Just grease and pressing them into place should be all you need to do. Otherwise, there is something wrong with the tolerances of the bearings or shell. If it is just a slight squeaking sound that can't be resolved, then as a last resort, loctite can be used.


agreed, but we are talking about the sleeve not the bearings. He wants to put in a sleeve so he can use standard cranks and later on perhaps go to BB30. Not a good idea. Best deciding now which way he wishes to go.


----------



## ptsbike55

What is the current 'cross setup for a disc wheel build? I'm looking at getting the same frameset.

Cant really say for certain but I posted a question about 24/24 vs 24/28 vs 28/28 spoke counts in the Cyclocross forum here at over at WW so hopefully it will get some good comments. Personally, I would like to go wiht 24/24 because then I can use Novatec's lightweight CX disc hubs which with some wider 38mm carbon tubulars could yield a ~1400-1500 gram wheelset. 
__________________

You might go to Colnago's website and look over their bikes with disc brakes. It looks like both CX and road versions are available now.


----------



## BooneKelly

jimlmackjr said:


> ok now i got the nuber right it wil be the FM098 i want the VERGE looking frame
> now i looked and HONGFU dont carry a FM098 but DENG FU does are they the same company and if they are not how should i deal with at that company
> 
> i am replacing a Trek 1.2 Alpha so going Carbon for my first bike and i like the Specialized Verge frame i am not going to get the BB30 thanks for that help and im going to get a non-ISP post with the 12K fiber


I've seen group buys on VeloBuild for both these companies


----------



## jimlmackjr

jordo_99 said:


> Got my Dengfu FM098 (and handlebars/stem) last week and built up over the weekend and took it for two rides...It's definitely stiff and fast. Very surprised how confident I am bombing downhill in it (go faster and much more stable than before).
> 
> Here's a picture of it...I'm still waiting on a new saddle that's in the mail and I'll be switching the tires to all black instead of the white/black ones that are a bit tasteless, IMO.
> 
> Full album is at Pictures by jpowel12 - Photobucket
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's already close to 7kg but with the new saddle and tires it should be slightly under (my figures below reflect these changes...but a few weights aren't measured and likely will add up to 75g)
> 
> I'm also planning on adding decals in the future but haven't decided what I want to do yet...likely matching blue on the fork, head tube and chain stays with glossy black on the seat tube and down tubes but I still don't know what I want the text to say.


not to be a bummer looks like ur tape wrap could be a little tighter but the bike killer looking i want the same frame but with Army Yellow(GOLD) accents and my frame sticker going to say " IT WORKS" lol being it a China Frame and it woks like the rest


----------



## Bridgey

jimlmackjr said:


> not to be a bummer looks like ur tape wrap could be a little tighter but the bike killer looking i want the same frame but with Army Yellow(GOLD) accents and my frame sticker going to say " IT WORKS" lol being it a China Frame and it woks like the rest


Re: the bike above. Blue and black FM098. Nice looking bike. Well done. I'd probably put the black brake lever grips back on though, as it will go along with the rest of the colour theme. Or likewise have black tape with blue lever grips. Just my 2 cents worth.

I like the idea of your IT Works. Very original and will gain heaps more attention than a real S Works. 

I called my bike Chinarello Mad-Dog. In regards to bikes it's the center of attention everywhere I go. Just bought another one as a training bike. Did think about a Chinarello Catma (instead of Dogma) at one stage. 

For the Specialized Venge, I would have probably have had the name Vendetta (instead of venge) in it somewhere, being a conspiratorist buff.


----------



## jimlmackjr

OK OK OK i know this is someone else bike but i changed the colors and add my graphic to see how it would turn out i plan on doing this with vinal from my cricket or the local store down the street

the frame is CALLED it'S WORK being that cycling is not just fun but u have to put in a lot of work to get better


----------



## Bridgey

Love the overall look. That will attract a lot of attention. Never though orange could look so good. 

The name is important though. I'd change it back to IT WORKS. Sounds better, is quite funny to anyone that knows anything about the Chinese Carbon Frame market and debates that come with it and anyone with a little knowledge about S-Works can see the similarities 

But I'd add to that. Only have IT-WORKS as a sub name. Make your major name (usually Specialized) something of significance or important to you (a knick name, and acronym of your kids?). That way the bike will take on meaning. Will become part of you rather than something like IT'S WORK which has no real personal meaning and will have people shaking their heads thinking why you called it that, etc I think it will become a bore pretty quick. (the reason for 2 names (one of significance). My 2cents worth.

In saying that my frames are called Chinarello Mad-Dog instead of Pinarello Dogma. But Mad-Dog is significant to me for reasons that those who have raced with me in the last couple of km's of a race know of. It just happened to also go along with the Dogma.


----------



## GT8

RB002/FM028 from Carbonzone on eBay 3 weeks China to Scotland.
58cm
Straight forward build apart from a drop of glue on the bottom headset I had to scrape off.
Not ridden it properly yet, just around the carpark but feels nice.
£365 + £45 custom charges 


























Like the band adapter for the front mech, really neat - doesn't seem too strong but better looking than a band mech!
New bars and stem to come.


----------



## Jayzzzzz

Hello, first time posting here.

After riding for abit less than a year, I decided maybe its time to spend some money into a camnondale...and I found this post about building your own bike with Chinese carbon and I am totally hooked. Mainly because I don't really like stuff with a huge arse brand sticker and the joy of building your own and learning as you go. Seems like many people has minor problems with what they purchased, but you all seems to use your brain and find quick fix solutions rather than whining and complaining about stuff that doesn't work. The dedication is impressive!

I am still doing my research atm,before I put my bucks on the Chinese carbon. Forgive me for newbie question. In terms of fitting. How do you guys know which bike geometry fits your riding style?? I see alot of the carbon sites posted their fram's geometry. But its like a whole different language to me as i don't know what suit me, or what is a better shape. That's the biggest problem for me because I don't know which one is right for me. Do you all have to do a body geometry fit? Or is there an easier way to find out what is right for you?

PS: I am looking for a road bike that's more relax/subtle.... and not so aggressive


----------



## Kinetic-UK

*Defy geo??*

Hi, I'm a bit of a noob and have had trouble looking for a frame with s imilar geo to the Defy 

Could anybody find me a bike with similar geo to the following? 

H/A: 72.5 degrees

Seat/A: 73 degrees

T/T: 56cm

H/T: 18.5cm

C/S: 42cm

Wheel base: 100.5cm

Standover Height: 79.5cm 

It doesn't have to be accuarte, but just similar as I am buying a carbon frame to add to my fleet.

Thanks.


----------



## jimlmackjr

Jayzzzzz said:


> Hello, first time posting here.
> 
> After riding for abit less than a year, I decided maybe its time to spend some money into a camnondale...and I found this post about building your own bike with Chinese carbon and I am totally hooked. Mainly because I don't really like stuff with a huge arse brand sticker and the joy of building your own and learning as you go. Seems like many people has minor problems with what they purchased, but you all seems to use your brain and find quick fix solutions rather than whining and complaining about stuff that doesn't work. The dedication is impressive!
> 
> I am still doing my research atm,before I put my bucks on the Chinese carbon. Forgive me for newbie question. In terms of fitting. How do you guys know which bike geometry fits your riding style?? I see alot of the carbon sites posted their fram's geometry. But its like a whole different language to me as i don't know what suit me, or what is a better shape. That's the biggest problem for me because I don't know which one is right for me. Do you all have to do a body geometry fit? Or is there an easier way to find out what is right for you?
> 
> PS: I am looking for a road bike that's more relax/subtle.... and not so aggressive



Go to ur local bike shop and see what size frame fit you than test ride and than u can go to that company web site and get the Geo. and than search the china
frmes they might not be a exact match but close
Most here have built a fm015 which if I remember right that like a trek madone


----------



## stijn_b

Lovely bikes in this thread! I've been reading a while through these but I haven't seen lot's of info on the Dogma 2012 Chines frame. I don't know the frame number that Dengfu, Hongfu, GreatKeen etc use but I was wondering about how well it is. Not speaking of the decals, I'd like to get a custom one like most of you guys do. 

Any input? This will be my first road bike build by my own at least that is the plan. 
Thanks!


----------



## OneShavedLeg

*FM 015 Long Term Review*

So in 2010 I bought a FM 015 in a 55 and equipped it with sram force/red components and a aluminum wheelset with nice hubs. I was also professionally fitted on the bike by an experienced fitter with 10+ year experience fitting road and tri bikes. What follow is my experience with my FM 015. Ill try and be as precise as possible but this is the internet, and an internet forum at that.

Weight: the frame and fork (uncut) came in at 1106g which I would consider fairly light. 

Ride: Its a carbon frame but not a good one. The vertical compliance with this bike is not that noticeably different from a nice aluminum bike (like a caad series) with a carbon seatpost. The bottom bracket and chain stays have noticeable flex when sprinting or strong efforts out of the saddle (I weigh 150 lbs). Having worked at a LBS for the last year I got a chance to ride some of the midrange/high end models of carbon bikes. I also got to test ride repair bikes post service for the mechanic. As a rule of thumb mid range carbon bikes (around 2200 dollars) we superior in every way to the FM 015. Even on rides shorter than 1 mile they were noticeably smoother and stiffer. The handling on these bikes were also superior to the FM 015. They track more predictably through turns where as my 015 has always felt skiddish and unpredictable. I feel like the old saying "you get what you pay for" is true for this bike. While it is a carbon frame, it does not offer the smoother ride and stiffness that other higher end bikes offer even though it has "copied" some of the frame characteristics that are present on other manufacturers bikes (cannondale chunky seat stays and cervelo thin seatstays). If you want a cheap crit bike thats carbon and flimsy go with this bike. If you think you can by an unbranded cervelo, cannondale, trek, specialize, ect from these companies then you will be sadly mistaken as what you by in the store is miles ahead of these carbon framed clones.


----------



## jordo_99

jimlmackjr said:


> not to be a bummer looks like ur tape wrap could be a little tighter but the bike killer looking i want the same frame but with Army Yellow(GOLD) accents and my frame sticker going to say " IT WORKS" lol being it a China Frame and it woks like the rest


Yeah, I've started to adjust my stem again so it looks a bit better and the tape will be re-wrapped soon. It's a cotton-based tape though so there isn't much stretch to it.



Bridgey said:


> Re: the bike above. Blue and black FM098. Nice looking bike. Well done. I'd probably put the black brake lever grips back on though, as it will go along with the rest of the colour theme. Or likewise have black tape with blue lever grips. Just my 2 cents worth.


I bought a set of black hudz at the same time so that I could mix/match and they only cost $10/set. I still only have the blue tape but I'll probably grab some black tape soon to give me some more options.

I haven't put much more thought into the look of my bike at this point...just riding it as much as possible and waiting for my carbon saddle to arrive (2 weeks now :cryin


----------



## castofone

> Weight: the frame and fork (uncut) came in at 1106g ...


I don't think so.



> (cannondale chunky seat stays and cervelo thin seatstays)


ummm which is it?

Assuming the rest of your post is a little more accurate it sounds a little disappointing. Yours is the first such criticism of FM015 ride quality that I have read. Lots of people love them. Have you tried other FM015s. Do you think you may have got a dud?

I ride an FM028, a similar frame made by the same people and while I can't compare the ride with bikes other than older bikes of my own, I have to say it's the nicest ride I've had and it tracks beautifully and predictably. Its great down hill at speed. It doesn't seem stiff but it's easily stiff enough for me, also comfortable/compliant enough for long rides. I'm 145 lb. The bike is a 52.


----------



## castofone

How are all those BB30s going?

There are lots of complaints about BB30s creaking in most bike brands across the board . I am considering another Dengfu with BB30 this time. The BBs on the Dengfus look pretty stiff like they'd hold their shape but what do I know. Is anyone (or everyone) having trouble with creaking BB30s in their Dengfus?


----------



## castofone

Jayzzzzz said:


> Hello, first time posting here.
> 
> After riding for abit less than a year, I decided maybe its time to spend some money into a camnondale...and I found this post about building your own bike with Chinese carbon and I am totally hooked. Mainly because I don't really like stuff with a huge arse brand sticker and the joy of building your own and learning as you go. Seems like many people has minor problems with what they purchased, but you all seems to use your brain and find quick fix solutions rather than whining and complaining about stuff that doesn't work. The dedication is impressive!
> 
> I am still doing my research atm,before I put my bucks on the Chinese carbon. Forgive me for newbie question. In terms of fitting. How do you guys know which bike geometry fits your riding style?? I see alot of the carbon sites posted their fram's geometry. But its like a whole different language to me as i don't know what suit me, or what is a better shape. That's the biggest problem for me because I don't know which one is right for me. Do you all have to do a body geometry fit? Or is there an easier way to find out what is right for you?
> 
> PS: I am looking for a road bike that's more relax/subtle.... and not so aggressive


Go here :Fit Calculator - Competitive Cyclist
and measure yourself as they recommend and run the numbers through their fit calculator. It will spit out 3 different styles of fit in size ranges. Unfortunately it doesn't give frame stack and reach but then most of the geo charts dont quote that anyway.
Compare the recommendations with your current bike dimensions. That will give you a pretty good idea of what will suit you.


----------



## bosango

Bridgey;As for 12k said:


> This is completely, absolutely, and totally untrue! The three cosmetic layers only differ in their appearance - it's purely aesthetics. They are all made from the same carbon fibers, except in the rare cases where a manufacturer will do something like mix T700 and T1000 fibers. It's the layup, type of carbon, and construction techniques that define a frame's strength, weight, and stiffness.


----------



## Vee

GT8 said:


> RB002/FM028 from Carbonzone on eBay 3 weeks China to Scotland.
> 58cm
> Straight forward build apart from a drop of glue on the bottom headset I had to scrape off.
> Not ridden it properly yet, just around the carpark but feels nice.
> £365 + £45 custom charges
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like the band adapter for the front mech, really neat - doesn't seem too strong but better looking than a band mech!
> New bars and stem to come.


Where did you get the FD brand? I have a Parlee one but it wasn't cheap.


----------



## danny87

OneShavedLeg said:


> So in 2010 I bought a FM 015 in a 55 and equipped it with sram force/red components and a aluminum wheelset with nice hubs. I was also professionally fitted on the bike by an experienced fitter with 10+ year experience fitting road and tri bikes. What follow is my experience with my FM 015. Ill try and be as precise as possible but this is the internet, and an internet forum at that.
> 
> Weight: the frame and fork (uncut) came in at 1106g which I would consider fairly light.
> 
> Ride: Its a carbon frame but not a good one. The vertical compliance with this bike is not that noticeably different from a nice aluminum bike (like a caad series) with a carbon seatpost. The bottom bracket and chain stays have noticeable flex when sprinting or strong efforts out of the saddle (I weigh 150 lbs). Having worked at a LBS for the last year I got a chance to ride some of the midrange/high end models of carbon bikes. I also got to test ride repair bikes post service for the mechanic. As a rule of thumb mid range carbon bikes (around 2200 dollars) we superior in every way to the FM 015. Even on rides shorter than 1 mile they were noticeably smoother and stiffer. The handling on these bikes were also superior to the FM 015. They track more predictably through turns where as my 015 has always felt skiddish and unpredictable. I feel like the old saying "you get what you pay for" is true for this bike. While it is a carbon frame, it does not offer the smoother ride and stiffness that other higher end bikes offer even though it has "copied" some of the frame characteristics that are present on other manufacturers bikes (cannondale chunky seat stays and cervelo thin seatstays). If you want a cheap crit bike thats carbon and flimsy go with this bike. If you think you can by an unbranded cervelo, cannondale, trek, specialize, ect from these companies then you will be sadly mistaken as what you by in the store is miles ahead of these carbon framed clones.


Hi there I'll buy it off you providing the frame is not damaged and if you can ship to the UK? How much? I'll give it my Dad as a present for Fathers Day.

I have a 55 FM015, I'm 5"9 152Ibs ride about 200-250 training miles a week around the hilliest areas of England. 

I've tried quite a few bikes and equipment. Including this years CAAD 8 & 10. Specialzed Allez, last years Scott Addict, Trek Madone's, Giant TCR, DeRosa R838.. Tbh I could name a few more I've tried but I can't think of 1 I was like 'wow miles better'.
I wouldn't say I'm a weak rider either.. Pretty strong if I say so my self lol


----------



## GT8

Ratio Carbon Front Derailleur Clamp | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com


----------



## mcfly

does anyone know if or what company make a Kuota Kalibur copy??


----------



## ms6073

GT8 said:


> Ratio Carbon Front Derailleur Clamp | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com


There are a couple with very similar appearance on Ebay from Chinese sellers as well.


----------



## Teo

stijn_b said:


> Lovely bikes in this thread! I've been reading a while through these but I haven't seen lot's of info on the Dogma 2012 Chines frame. I don't know the frame number that Dengfu, Hongfu, GreatKeen etc use but I was wondering about how well it is. Not speaking of the decals, I'd like to get a custom one like most of you guys do.
> 
> Any input? This will be my first road bike build by my own at least that is the plan.
> Thanks!


I have a Pinarello replica frame from Greatkeen. I’ll tell you about the issues I had first.

Seat post would not stop slipping. Tightened the clamp so much I stripped the bolt. Someone suggested I try hairspray and that worked, no more slipping after that. I did a mickey mouse fix on the seat post clamp as a temporary fix but Greatkeen agreed to send me 2 replacement clamps at no charge. 

Nuts for the front and rear bakes would not fit in mounting holes. This was due to overspray, easily fixed buy removing the paint from that area. 

Rear derailleur does not shift at 100%, but not sure if that is due to frame, still trying to diagnose. 

Had some issues with one decal not being spelled correctly, but shouldn’t be an issue for you.


On the positives, frame feels solid. I thought it would feel flimsy since it’s a Chinese frame, but it feels strong and feels like it could take a beating. Overall build quality is better than expected.

Rides a bit stiffer than a Wilier Izoard I used to have, but it’s stiffer in a good way. It’s also a little more nimble and corners better.

Overall I’m very impressed with my bike.


----------



## Teo

Jayzzzzz said:


> Hello, first time posting here.
> 
> After riding for abit less than a year, I decided maybe its time to spend some money into a camnondale...and I found this post about building your own bike with Chinese carbon and I am totally hooked. Mainly because I don't really like stuff with a huge arse brand sticker and the joy of building your own and learning as you go. Seems like many people has minor problems with what they purchased, but you all seems to use your brain and find quick fix solutions rather than whining and complaining about stuff that doesn't work. The dedication is impressive!
> 
> I am still doing my research atm,before I put my bucks on the Chinese carbon. Forgive me for newbie question. In terms of fitting. How do you guys know which bike geometry fits your riding style?? I see alot of the carbon sites posted their fram's geometry. But its like a whole different language to me as i don't know what suit me, or what is a better shape. That's the biggest problem for me because I don't know which one is right for me. Do you all have to do a body geometry fit? Or is there an easier way to find out what is right for you?
> 
> PS: I am looking for a road bike that's more relax/subtle.... and not so aggressive



Like someone else suggested try Competitive Cyclist’s Fit Calculator. It’s a lot of help. I would focus on the effective to tube length. There are some many numbers but I think that’s the most important to riding comfort.


----------



## Bridgey

Teo said:


> I have a Pinarello replica frame from Greatkeen. I’ll tell you about the issues I had first.
> 
> Seat post would not stop slipping. Tightened the clamp so much I stripped the bolt. Someone suggested I try hairspray and that worked, no more slipping after that. I did a mickey mouse fix on the seat post clamp as a temporary fix but Greatkeen agreed to send me 2 replacement clamps at no charge.
> 
> Nuts for the front and rear bakes would not fit in mounting holes. This was due to overspray, easily fixed buy removing the paint from that area.
> 
> Rear derailleur does not shift at 100%, but not sure if that is due to frame, still trying to diagnose.
> 
> Had some issues with one decal not being spelled correctly, but shouldn’t be an issue for you.
> 
> 
> On the positives, frame feels solid. I thought it would feel flimsy since it’s a Chinese frame, but it feels strong and feels like it could take a beating. Overall build quality is better than expected.
> 
> Rides a bit stiffer than a Wilier Izoard I used to have, but it’s stiffer in a good way. It’s also a little more nimble and corners better.
> 
> Overall I’m very impressed with my bike.


I am that impressed with Great Keen's Chinarello's that I just bought another one as a training bike. Both called Chinarello Mad-Dogs. I agree with all of the above other than the derailleur issue. Derailleur just needs adjusting. Sometimes internal cabling can make it a little more difficult to get it right.

Some other issue to beware of though are to tighten all screws on the frame including derailleur hanger. They arrive loose. One of the eyelets from the internal cabling was a bit small and couldn't fit in the ferrule. The crown was hard to get on the fork. But all the problems are easily overcome with a little bit of know how. I had no problems with seat slippage. Just used carbon grease. 

Riding my bike is a dream. Especially with the fsa carbon winged handlebars they sell. I also had mine made in BB30. Just takes a bit longer. 

I use to ride a Giant TCR 1 and a Pedal Force CG1. Both great bikes. But this kicks butt. Never ride anything else again. I'm officially a Chinarello Junkie.


----------



## danvuquoc

minch said:


> I have a Ican SP-AC053 (identical to the Miracle MC053- the ID tags inside the frame say miracle and the paypal address for ICAN was miracle).
> 
> Anyway, the build went very smoothly but I am having some trouble with the seatpost and clamp. The issue is not that the post slips down, rather that it slips up- and pulls the entire clamp set-up out of the frame. This seems to occur when riding with the post eventually wobbling slightly. Would really like to know if anyone has a solution to keep the clamp seated in its spot without it working loose (and upwards) on a ride.
> 
> Also, i cannot lift the bike by its seat generally or the post slips out- not a deal breaker but a bit of a hassle.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Edit- grammar


I have the exact same problem as this, small bumps in the road eventually unwedge the seatpost wedge clamp mechanism, and then the entire seat will drop when there isn't enough clamping force anymore. Have you found a solution for this? I've tried fix with the metal spacer with zero effect  any ideas all? I'd hate to be out many hundreds of dollars on this frame because of this.


----------



## Teo

Bridgey said:


> I am that impressed with Great Keen's Chinarello's that I just bought another one as a training bike. Both called Chinarello Mad-Dogs. I agree with all of the above other than the derailleur issue. Derailleur just needs adjusting. Sometimes internal cabling can make it a little more difficult to get it right.
> 
> Some other issue to beware of though are to tighten all screws on the frame including derailleur hanger. They arrive loose. One of the eyelets from the internal cabling was a bit small and couldn't fit in the ferrule. The crown was hard to get on the fork. But all the problems are easily overcome with a little bit of know how. I had no problems with seat slippage. Just used carbon grease.
> 
> Riding my bike is a dream. Especially with the fsa carbon winged handlebars they sell. I also had mine made in BB30. Just takes a bit longer.
> 
> I use to ride a Giant TCR 1 and a Pedal Force CG1. Both great bikes. But this kicks butt. Never ride anything else again. I'm officially a Chinarello Junkie.



I’m kind of thinking the internal cabling is leading to some issues. Shifts fine when I’m on big chain ring but sometimes a little off when on small. 

Forgot to mention to tighten screws, I made sure to tighten front derailleur hanger but forgot the rear. Didn’t realize it was lose until I took off rear wheel after about two rides. 

Had the same problem with one of my eyelets but I widened it a bit and it worked fine.


----------



## castofone

jimlmackjr said:


> Heck no im not even going to put anything but my nick name and sram and i might put in the down tube IT-WORKS (LOL)


You could call it RE-VENGE. (LOLer)


----------



## Bridgey

castofone said:


> You could call it RE-VENGE. (LOLer)


Love it. Revenge against the rip off prices that these companies have been hitting us with all this time. 
Like some people say, If you don't like the price, don't buy it. 

Well, we won't, we will buy the replicas instead


----------



## The_Maraquis_of_Carabas

*Headset types that come with HongFu frames*

I've built a few FM039s and am very happy with them. Just have a question in relation to the headtube on them. Are the headsets used on them threadless or integrated headsets? I've googled "thread less v integrated headset" and replies I found on other forums are leaving me confused. I'm almost sure that the FM039 uses an integrated headset but only 99% sure. Can someone confirm and if possible provide aYoutube link or a website that clearly states the difference. Also, I've been looking on Chainreactioncycles for a headset to suit an FM039 (nothing wrong with existing one but handy to know which one to go for if anything goes wrong) and again I'm not sure which suits the FM039. Would this work:*
Ritchey Pro Drop In Integrated Headset 2012 | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com


----------



## Missbaksel

Hi Forum, Im looking for a good 38mm carbon clincher wheelset from China. Does anyone has experience with this kind of wheel and what are good suppliers?

kind regards,

Martijn


----------



## Bridgey

Missbaksel said:


> Hi Forum, Im looking for a good 38mm carbon clincher wheelset from China. Does anyone has experience with this kind of wheel and what are good suppliers?
> 
> kind regards,
> 
> Martijn


There is a Chinese carbon wheel section within these forums. You are in the wrong spot, but regardless if you type into Google Far Sports (light, new braking surface and use Sapim spokes) or Yishun (lowered braking surface), you will no doubt find what you are looking for. Or of course you have some good ones on ebay. 

I have read of very few problems with Far Sports or Yishun. But don't take my word for it, do your research on the forum.


----------



## zigmeister

Bridgey said:


> agreed, but we are talking about the sleeve not the bearings. He wants to put in a sleeve so he can use standard cranks and later on perhaps go to BB30. Not a good idea. Best deciding now which way he wishes to go.


In that case, some sleeves use loctite as you mentioned.

I don't like adapters/sleeves, try to avoid them at all costs. I would rather just sell my old cranks and get new ones for the proper BB.


----------



## zigmeister

Teo said:


> I’m kind of thinking the internal cabling is leading to some issues. Shifts fine when I’m on big chain ring but sometimes a little off when on small.
> 
> Forgot to mention to tighten screws, I made sure to tighten front derailleur hanger but forgot the rear. Didn’t realize it was lose until I took off rear wheel after about two rides.
> 
> Had the same problem with one of my eyelets but I widened it a bit and it worked fine.


All RD hangers screws should be secured with loctite blue. 

I needed to replace the RD cable on my Jagwire kit at a race. I had spares at home, but didn't want to buy an entire kit again for 1 cable. So I got a generic un-coated stainless cable, the shifting has been a little firm and difficult since. There is a big difference between the generic stainless cables and better coated ones for sure. Haven't go around to replacing the cable yet since I have a new frame coming, don't want to waste yet another cable when I'm going to pull all the old parts off.

Anyway, the coated Jagwire cables work fine in the inner housings on my frame. But, the cable could be the problem as I found. Something to consider, maybe its the cable not the housing.

Also, as mentioned several times in the thread, some people buy Gore Ride on cables with the liners, and put the liners inside the internal housing to reduce/resolve any cable friction issues.

Unless the internal housing is clogged up or bent in some weird way, that should resolve the issue.


----------



## zigmeister

timsen said:


>


Indeed...one of the nicest paint schemes/design I've seen, on just about any bike brand today.


----------



## timsen

zigmeister said:


> Indeed...one of the nicest paint schemes/design I've seen, on just about any bike brand today.


Thanks guys!!

I'm working on it!


----------



## The_Maraquis_of_Carabas

zigmeister said:


> Indeed...one of the nicest paint schemes/design I've seen, on just about any bike brand today.


She's a beauty alright. How much did the paint work cost if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## OveOlsson

timsen said:


> Thanks guys!!
> 
> I'm working on it!


Hello Timsen!
I really like the bike and the color theme!

But the decals is making it little more difficult to know what frame it is..
Can you help me please?

Best Regards from Sweden


----------



## zender

OneShavedLeg said:


> So in 2010 I bought a FM 015 in a 55 and equipped it with sram force/red components and a aluminum wheelset with nice hubs. I was also professionally fitted on the bike by an experienced fitter with 10+ year experience fitting road and tri bikes. What follow is my experience with my FM 015. Ill try and be as precise as possible but this is the internet, and an internet forum at that.
> 
> Weight: the frame and fork (uncut) came in at 1106g which I would consider fairly light.
> 
> Ride: Its a carbon frame but not a good one. The vertical compliance with this bike is not that noticeably different from a nice aluminum bike (like a caad series) with a carbon seatpost. The bottom bracket and chain stays have noticeable flex when sprinting or strong efforts out of the saddle (I weigh 150 lbs). Having worked at a LBS for the last year I got a chance to ride some of the midrange/high end models of carbon bikes. I also got to test ride repair bikes post service for the mechanic. As a rule of thumb mid range carbon bikes (around 2200 dollars) we superior in every way to the FM 015. Even on rides shorter than 1 mile they were noticeably smoother and stiffer. The handling on these bikes were also superior to the FM 015. They track more predictably through turns where as my 015 has always felt skiddish and unpredictable. I feel like the old saying "you get what you pay for" is true for this bike. While it is a carbon frame, it does not offer the smoother ride and stiffness that other higher end bikes offer even though it has "copied" some of the frame characteristics that are present on other manufacturers bikes (cannondale chunky seat stays and cervelo thin seatstays). If you want a cheap crit bike thats carbon and flimsy go with this bike. If you think you can by an unbranded cervelo, cannondale, trek, specialize, ect from these companies then you will be sadly mistaken as what you by in the store is miles ahead of these carbon framed clones.


Any photos? Not saying I don't believe you, but you joined in 2006 and this is your one and only post on RBR. Nothing presonal, just a bit unusual.


----------



## rbart4506

Finally finished up my team issue FM028...Took it out for a maiden voyage, Haven't lost anything in comparison to my Tarmac Expert! Working on fine tuning the seat mast length and saddle tilt.


----------



## Christopha

derpy double-post


----------



## Christopha

zender said:


> Any photos? Not saying I don't believe you, but you joined in 2006 and this is your one and only post on RBR. Nothing presonal, just a bit unusual.


Does anyone see anything strange in that there are a lot of doubters to this mildly negative review, yet no-one seems to question all the groundless, positive raving going on in this thread?

OneShavedLeg's review was a well-put, cogent and articulate opinion.

I suspect a lot of people come to this thread seeking validation of their decision to purchase a Chinese carbon blank & when they find someone who disagrees, take a knee-jerk stab.

I've recently bought & built a Chinese blank to replace a quality name-brand bike & I love it but that does not mean anything in relation to OneShavedLeg's experience (not withstanding his experience is 2 years old). This thread should be about RBR members collating all feedback so they can make an informed decision, not a Chinese carbon fanboy versus hater sausage-fest.

Let the positives and negative opinions continue without question and let the numbers aggregate.


----------



## dr. locktopus

I'm curious about this negative review, as I don't doubt that it could be true.

I'm wondering if these "copy cat" designs, are worse than those designs which are marketed by known brands and purchased from an open mold like the FM-R838 (marketed by Ribble, Swift and De Rosa), R830SL (Swift, Planet X), etc.


----------



## zigmeister

Christopha said:


> Does anyone see anything strange in that there are a lot of doubters to this mildly negative review, yet no-one seems to question all the groundless, positive raving going on in this thread?
> 
> OneShavedLeg's review was a well-put, cogent and articulate opinion.
> 
> I suspect a lot of people come to this thread seeking validation of their decision to purchase a Chinese carbon blank & when they find someone who disagrees, take a knee-jerk stab.
> 
> I've recently bought & built a Chinese blank to replace a quality name-brand bike & I love it but that does not mean anything in relation to OneShavedLeg's experience (not withstanding his experience is 2 years old). This thread should be about RBR members collating all feedback so they can make an informed decision, not a Chinese carbon fanboy versus hater sausage-fest.
> 
> Let the positives and negative opinions continue without question and let the numbers aggregate.


With all due respect, there is suspicion regarding the original post due to the fact that alarms are going off in my head when somebody claims any frame and fork uncut, weigh 1105gms.

Not happening. There are only a handful of bikes in this world that come it at that weight for frame/fork (uncut). CDale Evo, and one or two others we know of.

Granted, if the post was 2yrs old, the ride quality might be significantly different from what is produced today from many Chinese manufacturers.


----------



## GeneralSparks

Hi. 

I have just received my HongFu FM039. Having a couple of issues which I'm hoping those in the know can help me resolve.

Firstly, and I know this has been mentioned before but I couldn't find the solution, the steerer tube doesn't seem to have had enough Carbon milled off of the lower section, as such the bearing race won't go all the way down, in fact its about 10mm too high. Is it ok to sand this down? It looks like excess that wouldn't structurally compromise the fork - I'm thinking I may take it to a frame builders to get dome properly and invoice Hongfu for it through the Paypal resolution centre (Tomorrow is the last day I can put in a resolution centre claim and I intend too as it is my only real source of buyer protection I have, I've emailed Jane already who has said she'll sort it but I can't let that protection slide away).










Secondly, the angle of my saddle on the seat post does not seem adjustable, the grooves that the saddle rails sit in are not perpendicular to the ground when in the frame, the nose is pointing in the air a fair way (maybe 10 degrees). The circular section of the seat post does not rotate at all.



















The last thing that is not right is that it has come with a threaded bottom bracket when I'd ordered a BB30 which is particularly annoying as I've already bought a bottom Bracket and Sram S900 BB30 crankset which I will now have to send back and try and source replacements - this is particularly annoying as I got a really good deal on the crankset. Is there any Bottom Bracket I can get to use it still?










Hopefully between any knowledge shared here and Jane in China I can get this all together, have it thrown together in rolling chassis form and really pleased with the way it looks, just annoyed that I'm gonna have to wait longer than necessary to get riding it (ordered 6 weeks ago).










Cheers,

Mike


----------



## Vee

GeneralSparks said:


> Hi.
> 
> I have just received my HongFu FM039. Having a couple of issues which I'm hoping those in the know can help me resolve.
> 
> Firstly, and I know this has been mentioned before but I couldn't find the solution, the steerer tube doesn't seem to have had enough Carbon milled off of the lower section, as such the bearing race won't go all the way down, in fact its about 10mm too high. Is it ok to sand this down? It looks like excess that wouldn't structurally compromise the fork - I'm thinking I may take it to a frame builders to get dome properly and invoice Hongfu for it through the Paypal resolution centre (Tomorrow is the last day I can put in a resolution centre claim and I intend too as it is my only real source of buyer protection I have, I've emailed Jane already who has said she'll sort it but I can't let that protection slide away).
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, the angle of my saddle on the seat post does not seem adjustable, the grooves that the saddle rails sit in are not perpendicular to the ground when in the frame, the nose is pointing in the air a fair way (maybe 10 degrees). The circular section of the seat post does not rotate at all.
> 
> 
> 
> The last thing that is not right is that it has come with a threaded bottom bracket when I'd ordered a BB30 which is particularly annoying as I've already bought a bottom Bracket and Sram S900 BB30 crankset which I will now have to send back and try and source replacements - this is particularly annoying as I got a really good deal on the crankset. Is there any Bottom Bracket I can get to use it still?
> 
> 
> Hopefully between any knowledge shared here and Jane in China I can get this all together, have it thrown together in rolling chassis form and really pleased with the way it looks, just annoyed that I'm gonna have to wait longer than necessary to get riding it (ordered 6 weeks ago).
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Mike


Hey Mike,

Really sorry to hear about your issues. However, you will be excited to know that two of these are not actual issues. I will touch on your only real "issue" first.

A BB30 crank cannot be used in a threaded bottom bracket because the axle on a BB30 crank is going to be a lot thicker than that of one to use with a threaded BB. If you had a BB30 frame and wanted to use a GXP crankset, you would be able to insert an adapter in your BB30 frame to turn it into a threaded BB. Unfortunately, you cannot make a smaller, threaded BB frame into a BB30 frame. That is truly your only issue, and the guys you ordered it from should be scolded for screwing this up...

The crown race issue, where you say there is too much material, is completely normal. There is NOT too much material. The crown race is meant to be hammered into place. Please bring this to your LBS if you are not familiar with this procedure, as you can really damage things. A few people have given suggestions on how to do this using household DIY type tools like PVC, etc, but you still need to know what you are doing.

Lastly, the seat clamp that accommodates the rails of your saddle can be adjusted vertically by undoing the bolt completely and removing the two "caps" that are inserted into the hole in your seat post. Bontrager has a similar mechanism to this, but their setup includes a spring which pushes these two caps away from the hole to allow for easier vertical adjustment. In your case, the caps are probably wedged into their hole slightly, so a little prying will set them loose once you have removed the bolt.


----------



## GeneralSparks

Thanks for the response Vee.

I'll have another look at the seat post after dinner now that I'm a lot calmer and less annoyed at the thing. Will drop the forks in to the bike shop tomorrow.

This is the first road bike I've built as MTB racing is my main calling. I sold my old Orange 5 to fund what was meant to be a cheap roadie for training on but once I saw these had to have one. As regards cables, I've got a jag wire set - should I have roller tensioners/adjusters where the cable joins the frame?


----------



## Vee

GeneralSparks said:


> Thanks for the response Vee.
> 
> I'll have another look at the seat post after dinner now that I'm a lot calmer and less annoyed at the thing. Will drop the forks in to the bike shop tomorrow.
> 
> This is the first road bike I've built as MTB racing is my main calling. I sold my old Orange 5 to fund what was meant to be a cheap roadie for training on but once I saw these had to have one. As regards cables, I've got a jag wire set - should I have roller tensioners/adjusters where the cable joins the frame?


The barrel adjusters do help for minor adjustments while riding, so I would suggest you get a set. Most adjusters will work. I personally went with a set made by Token on my FM015. Can be found here: http://www.probikekit.com/us/components/gear-brake-cables/token-alloy-downtube-cable-adjusters.html


----------



## ms6073

Vee said:


> A BB30 crank cannot be used in a threaded bottom bracket because the axle on a BB30 crank is going to be a lot thicker than that of one to use with a threaded BB.


While that used to be the case, if it is a threaded BSA 68 bottom bracket shell, there currently are several companies that market BSA to BB30 adapters for threaded bottom bracket shells of which at least one or more should work:



Rotor BSA 30
E-Thirteen
THM
Zipp Vumaquad


----------



## Vee

ms6073 said:


> While that used to be the case, if it is a threaded BSA 68 bottom bracket shell, there currently are several companies that market BSA to BB30 adapters for threaded bottom bracket shells of which at least one or more should work:
> 
> 
> 
> Rotor BSA 30
> E-Thirteen
> THM
> Zipp Vumaquad


Oh, wow. I had not seen this. Wonder how much more it increases QFactor...


----------



## GeneralSparks

These 2 "Caps" on the seat post seem pretty intent on staying put


----------



## GeneralSparks

They're out they're out!!


----------



## ms6073

Vee said:


> Wonder how much more it increases QFactor...


:mad2: Doh, failed to be 10% smarter as we are talking about BB30 cranks and the bottom brackets I referenced were designed to work with BB386 cranks like Rotors 3D+ which while it has a spindle with a 30mm diameter, it is also longer a traditional BB30 crankset.


----------



## Go-zilla

I have been reading this ~entire~ thread for a couple of weeks now. When people are posting their FM 015 frame, it does look familiar. Does it just looks like the Masi with a slightly curved fork ?


----------



## MRFIXALL4

No. Look at the head tube. Look at the curved seatstay. Not it at all.


----------



## MTBMaven

zigmeister said:


> All RD hangers screws should be secured with loctite blue.
> 
> I needed to replace the RD cable on my Jagwire kit at a race. I had spares at home, but didn't want to buy an entire kit again for 1 cable. So I got a generic un-coated stainless cable, the shifting has been a little firm and difficult since. There is a big difference between the generic stainless cables and better coated ones for sure. Haven't go around to replacing the cable yet since I have a new frame coming, don't want to waste yet another cable when I'm going to pull all the old parts off.
> 
> Anyway, the coated Jagwire cables work fine in the inner housings on my frame. But, the cable could be the problem as I found. Something to consider, maybe its the cable not the housing.
> 
> Also, as mentioned several times in the thread, some people buy Gore Ride on cables with the liners, and put the liners inside the internal housing to reduce/resolve any cable friction issues.
> 
> Unless the internal housing is clogged up or bent in some weird way, that should resolve the issue.


A bit off topic but hell most things are in this stupidly long thread are too. FWIW, I never buy cables coated in anything and almost always buy Shimano Dura-Ace cable. Coated cables sound nice in theory but as they wear the coating comes off and clogs the liner. As for why Dura-Ace I read a few years ago that some German bike mag compared the stretch of numerous cables on the market and one hard to source Jagwire cable and Dura-Ace cable had the least stretch of the others in the test. Dura-Ace cable is sold at almost every LBS and is my go to cable. Just food for thought.


----------



## racermech

danvuquoc said:


> I have the exact same problem as this, small bumps in the road eventually unwedge the seatpost wedge clamp mechanism, and then the entire seat will drop when there isn't enough clamping force anymore. Have you found a solution for this? I've tried fix with the metal spacer with zero effect  any ideas all? I'd hate to be out many hundreds of dollars on this frame because of this.


I am on the verge of pulling the trigger on this frame. Might I ask who you guys spoke to at miracle trade? I am having issues getting a couple questions answered. I am sure it is a language barrier. Basically I want the non-isp sizing chart and they keep sending the isp one. and I want to find out about a 0 off set seatpost. 

With your post issues I wonder if just a bit of epoxy on the clamp to the carbon might fix things? Without seeing the entire clamp and frame just yet it is hard to say what is causing the issue.


----------



## zender

zigmeister said:


> With all due respect, there is suspicion regarding the original post due to the fact that alarms are going off in my head when somebody claims any frame and fork uncut, weigh 1105gms.
> 
> Not happening. There are only a handful of bikes in this world that come it at that weight for frame/fork (uncut). CDale Evo, and one or two others we know of.
> 
> Granted, if the post was 2yrs old, the ride quality might be significantly different from what is produced today from many Chinese manufacturers.


Spidey sense also tingles because it is the dude's first post EVER on this forum. Regardless of the tone of the review, positive or negative, that undermines the credibility some. I was hoping he would post a photo.


----------



## maxxevv

zender said:


> Spidey sense also tingles because it is the dude's first post EVER on this forum. Regardless of the tone of the review, positive or negative, that undermines the credibility some. I was hoping he would post a photo.


Yup ... post some ORIGINAL pictures and he'll get full street cred here...


----------



## maxxevv

Go-zilla said:


> I have been reading this ~entire~ thread for a couple of weeks now. When people are posting their FM 015 frame, it does look familiar. Does it just looks like the Masi with a slightly curved fork ?


Its probably the FM029 (full internal cable routing) based on the small pict we have here. Not the FM015.


----------



## kanekikapu

Has anyone got their hands on the hongfu/dengfu FM066?


----------



## GeneralSparks

Silly question. Since I don't have a BB30 as I was expecting, is SRAM GXP the style of BB I will need with a threaded bottom bracket?

With so many Bb/headset standards these days I get easily confused.


----------



## Seneb

HongFu Bikes just posted this to their Flickr page...
Carbon cutting


----------



## Kinetic-UK

Just paid for an FR009.










Does anyone know if it comes with a headset? And which fork would be best? Would the FK002 be any good?

Thanks.


----------



## danvuquoc

racermech said:


> I am on the verge of pulling the trigger on this frame. Might I ask who you guys spoke to at miracle trade? I am having issues getting a couple questions answered. I am sure it is a language barrier. Basically I want the non-isp sizing chart and they keep sending the isp one. and I want to find out about a 0 off set seatpost.
> 
> With your post issues I wonder if just a bit of epoxy on the clamp to the carbon might fix things? Without seeing the entire clamp and frame just yet it is hard to say what is causing the issue.


I am speaking to Jack Chen from Miracle Trade, and he's been very responsive and easy to communicate with. The non-ISP and ISP version have the exact same geometry. There is no 0 off-set seatpost or 0 off-set seatmast topper for this bike. 

I've considered the epoxy bit, but I've contacted Jack about it and they're willing to exchange the non-isp version for the isp version if I send it back.


----------



## kanekikapu

GeneralSparks said:


> Silly question. Since I don't have a BB30 as I was expecting, is SRAM GXP the style of BB I will need with a threaded bottom bracket?
> 
> With so many Bb/headset standards these days I get easily confused.


Yes if you are planning to use it with a SRAM/truvativ gxp cranks. Hollowtech II for shimano and MegaExo for FSA stuff. And of course there are companies that makes compatible BBs for them

Hope that helps!


----------



## wakali

Hi all,

New to this forum. I was planning on getting a first road bike from Bikes Direct when I stumbled upon this great thread. Now I want to build my own. I normally ride a mountain bike and I'm pretty good with mechanical stuff. I don't know anything about road bikes though. Can someone please point me to the right direction on what kind of frame I should get. Listed below are my questions...Also I need derections on who to contact for purchasing the frame. Please bear with me, I know nothing about chinese frames, I barely know anything about road bikes for that matter. Thanks in advanced guys.

1: I need (due to a bad back) a more upright position geometry for comfort? (1st priority)
2: based on looks alone the FM028 and the MC053 caught my eye... do these frames have comfortable geometry?
3: are there any group buys that goes on in this forum?


----------



## AnthonyL88

wakali said:


> Hi all,
> 
> New to this forum. I was planning on getting a first road bike from Bikes Direct when I stumbled upon this great thread. Now I want to build my own. I normally ride a mountain bike and I'm pretty good with mechanical stuff. I don't know anything about road bikes though. Can someone please point me to the right direction on what kind of frame I should get. Listed below are my questions...Also I need derections on who to contact for purchasing the frame. Please bear with me, I know nothing about chinese frames, I barely know anything about road bikes for that matter. Thanks in advanced guys.
> 
> 1: I need (due to a bad back) a more upright position geometry for comfort? (1st priority)
> 2: based on looks alone the FM028 and the MC053 caught my eye... do these frames have comfortable geometry?
> 3: are there any group buys that goes on in this forum?


How much do you want to spend?


----------



## wakali

anthonyl88 said:


> how much do you want to spend?


<=$500


----------



## Go-zilla

wakali said:


> <=$500


While I bought a set of these Chinese carbon clincher and love it (planning to buy another set soon), you have to understand that you are entering unchartered territory right ? As long as you know what you getting yourself into, then I guess it is ok. I'm not saying the experience will be bad, it could be really good like lots of us here but there is still certain risks there.


----------



## jasonhudson

I was under the impression that disc wheels needed at least 32 spokes to handle the additional stress of braking at the hub rather than at the rim. I suppose "need" is always arguable, but have people around here used 24 spoked disc wheels without problems?

Also, there is a group buy forming for that frame "elsewhere" if you are interested. I am new here or I would pm the link to you directly.


----------



## jasonhudson

ms6073 said:


> Cant really say for certain but I posted a question about 24/24 vs 24/28 vs 28/28 spoke counts in the Cyclocross forum here at over at WW so hopefully it will get some good comments. Personally, I would like to go wiht 24/24 because then I can use Novatec's lightweight CX disc hubs which with some wider 38mm carbon tubulars could yield a ~1400-1500 gram wheelset.


What wider 38mm tubular rims are you looking at? The only "wider" tubular rim I was able to find was 50mm and only available in 24 hole drilling. I would prefer 28 or 32 hole and the 38mm depth.


----------



## wakali

Go-zilla said:


> While I bought a set of these Chinese carbon clincher and love it (planning to buy another set soon), you have to understand that you are entering unchartered territory right ? As long as you know what you getting yourself into, then I guess it is ok. I'm not saying the experience will be bad, it could be really good like lots of us here but there is still certain risks there.


Thanks for the insight. I realize the risk I'm taking. I am encouraged though by all the good experiences I'm reading around here. I just hope someone could point me to a nice comfortable framset and like I said, I'm hoping to spend <$500 for the frameset. Maybe I could join a group buy or something.....


----------



## Crawf

Been thinking about going Di2 in the future sometime with my FM028 and carefully executed drilling, but has anyone come across any truly compatible Di2 china frames yet?


----------



## MKO

Crawf said:


> Been thinking about going Di2 in the future sometime with my FM028 and carefully executed drilling, but has anyone come across any truly compatible Di2 china frames yet?


Here is a review by Rob81 on FR-315, which is a Di2 ready frame.



Rob81 said:


> some new pics and spec descriptions:
> massarob.info: Bici 2012 | Bike 2012


----------



## maxxevv

Crawf said:


> Been thinking about going Di2 in the future sometime with my FM028 and carefully executed drilling, but has anyone come across any truly compatible Di2 china frames yet?


The FM066 has a Di2 specific configuration. 

Apparently, they have a high modulus carbon version of the FM039 which can be configured for Di2 too. This second one needs to be verified, as I'm not completely sure if I remembered the details correctly.


----------



## Crawf

Thanks, I see the FM066 has holes in the BB shell for internal wiring which is promising. The FR-315 I can't tell for sure?


----------



## mtbboy41

*Vibrating Cables help needed!!*

HI all,
Anyone experiencing a buzzing noise from internal cables on their frames? I have a MC008 with internal rear brake and gear cables. The brake has stops built into the entry and exit and the gear cables have stops at the entry.
Does anyone know if the cables are in sleeves inside the tubes or just loose? I have tried to get some o rings inside the tubes but they wont go past the stops. Next plan is to pump grease down the tubes. 
Any great ideas from anyone?
Thanks in advance.


----------



## stijn_b

Guys,

I will be buying the RFM201 from Greatkeen but I was wondering if the Campagnolo Centaur Power Torque crankset will fit? 

Anyone who knows?

Thanks.


----------



## Exar

OneShavedLeg said:


> If you want a cheap crit bike thats carbon and flimsy go with this bike. If you think you can by an unbranded cervelo, cannondale, trek, specialize, ect from these companies then you will be sadly mistaken as what you by in the store is miles ahead of these carbon framed clones.


For every bad review there should be a good review... I've ridden my FM015 (size 57) for about a year now, it replaced a '05 model Scott CR1 Pro. The FM015 seems to me to offer better steering precision (especially noticable on long, twisty descents), a bit more comfort on bumpy roads ands more or less the same bottom bracket stiffness (although due to the stiffer front end the whole sprinting performance of the FM015 is better). 78 kg rider, 1.5kW max power, 380W FTP. 

I've rode it in a couple of 160+km races at the Elite level here in the Netherlands and so far it's holding up fine, although I did break the lower headset bearing in a race with 10km of cobbles. The paint cracked around the bottom of the seatstays, at first I thought the seatstays themselves had cracked but after filing away some paint it turned out that the stays just flex more than the paint.


----------



## ms6073

jasonhudson said:


> What wider 38mm tubular rims are you looking at? The only "wider" tubular rim I was able to find was 50mm and only available in 24 hole drilling.


I was kind of speaking in future tense as other than high end offerings from AX Lightness, Corima, Enve, and Zipp, I do not know of any other wider carbon tubular rims with 38mm.depth. It is my understanding that the 23mm wide Farsport 50mm carbon tubulars can be ordered in 20, 24, and 28 hole drillings but I have no first hand experience. I suspect that it will not be too long before we start seeing some trickle down of the wider rim technology to the shallower depth carbon tubular rims as well.


----------



## jasonhudson

Ok. That Farsport 50mm tubular is the only wider (generic chinese carbon) tubular rim I had seen. The website indicates 20 and 24 hole drillings, but I would not be surprised if you could get 28 hole on request. It seems a bit over rimmed and under spoked for 'cross to me, but 28 spokes might work with discs for a lighter guy?


----------



## Kinetic-UK

I've recently purchased an FLY-FR-900 (Flyxi) frame. Does anyone know if any 1 1/8" fork will fit?


----------



## ms6073

jasonhudson said:


> It seems a bit over rimmed and under spoked for 'cross to me, but 28 spokes might work with discs for a lighter guy?


I think if one could source a set of hubs tha tuse straight pull spokes, then either 24/24 or 24/28 would work considering both Easton and Reynolds currently market sub 1500-gram 29er carbon UST wheelsets that feature 24/24 spoke counts..


----------



## zigmeister

MTBMaven said:


> A bit off topic but hell most things are in this stupidly long thread are too. FWIW, I never buy cables coated in anything and almost always buy Shimano Dura-Ace cable. Coated cables sound nice in theory but as they wear the coating comes off and clogs the liner. As for why Dura-Ace I read a few years ago that some German bike mag compared the stretch of numerous cables on the market and one hard to source Jagwire cable and Dura-Ace cable had the least stretch of the others in the test. Dura-Ace cable is sold at almost every LBS and is my go to cable. Just food for thought.


My response was more in relation to the stock internal cable housing of the Chinese frames people have had issues with friction. 

One point I made was a regular uncoated cable, isn't doing so hot on my current frame, whereas my Jagwire coated works much better in the housing.

Cable stretch isn't really an issue, except over a very long period of time, and didn't have anything to do with the friction issue I was responding too.

Some coated cables, like the standard SRAM cables that come with the shifters, the coating will peel off and could get jammed in the housing. Jagwire doesn't use that kind of coating, it is more of a soaking treatment the cable gets that also ends up around the outside portion as well as the strands, it isn't just a outer plastic coating that can peel off. I personally never had issues even with stock SRAM cables, or Jagwire cloggin up anything causing issues, maybe others have. I would replace the cable anyway before become an issue personally.

Also, my other point was the suggestion others have used Gore Ride On housings, put them inside the regular internal housing, as they are designed to do, and run Gore cables, or any good cable inside of that. That can also help with the friction issues of the possibly cheap low-end internal cable housing they use in the Chinese frames.


----------



## zigmeister

mtbboy41 said:


> HI all,
> Anyone experiencing a buzzing noise from internal cables on their frames? I have a MC008 with internal rear brake and gear cables. The brake has stops built into the entry and exit and the gear cables have stops at the entry.
> Does anyone know if the cables are in sleeves inside the tubes or just loose? I have tried to get some o rings inside the tubes but they wont go past the stops. Next plan is to pump grease down the tubes.
> Any great ideas from anyone?
> Thanks in advance.


This has been covered. But I will respond. Some people have cable buzzing over certain road surfaces. The housing, from what I can tell looking into my frames, are just silicon into place at the ends, the rest of the housing is just loose inside the frame, or just secure at one or two points, which leads to the housing being able to vibrate around.

People have put foam pillow filling into the downtube/top tube where the housing is most likely to have the ability to vibrate and buzz in those large open areas. They use a coat hanger and cut the pieces to fit and push it down into the tube so it presses against the housing and stops the rattling.

My frame buzzes, but usually only over a particularly type of rough surface that will make all sorts of cables and water bottle cages rattle also, so I haven't done anything to try and make it quiet, happens rarely with me.

But others have used the above trick to get it to quiet up successfully, just a few bucks, only adds a few grams of weight. Just remove the headset/bearings, push the foam down in the tubes...see how that works.


----------



## zigmeister

Vee said:


> The barrel adjusters do help for minor adjustments while riding, so I would suggest you get a set. Most adjusters will work. I personally went with a set made by Token on my FM015. Can be found here: https://www.probikekit.com/us/components/gear-brake-cables/token-alloy-downtube-cable-adjusters.html


From the photo, not sure how those actually work. That link you provided is for a threaded barrell adjuster. I don't think any of these frames have threaded derailleur setups. 

I think he is asking about derailleur barrel adjusters that are inline and don't join the frame, unless that frame he has is setup differently, if so my bad! I would definitely put some on for the RD. Front D cable never put adjusters on, never needed that.

I current have some of these Jagwire ones...hate them. You can only make it looser when riding, and sometimes cables rubbing will loosen the RD cable. If you tighten it, it doesn't have enough friction and it just slips against the bottom part and won't turn. At least with mine they don't work well.












I'm running the better Jagwire adjusters now, much improved system/design...think I paid $10 shipped from eBay to my house for a pair.


----------



## mtbboy41

zigmeister said:


> This has been covered. But I will respond. Some people have cable buzzing over certain road surfaces. The housing, from what I can tell looking into my frames, are just silicon into place at the ends, the rest of the housing is just loose inside the frame, or just secure at one or two points, which leads to the housing being able to vibrate around.
> 
> People have put foam pillow filling into the downtube/top tube where the housing is most likely to have the ability to vibrate and buzz in those large open areas. They use a coat hanger and cut the pieces to fit and push it down into the tube so it presses against the housing and stops the rattling.
> 
> My frame buzzes, but usually only over a particularly type of rough surface that will make all sorts of cables and water bottle cages rattle also, so I haven't done anything to try and make it quiet, happens rarely with me.
> 
> But others have used the above trick to get it to quiet up successfully, just a few bucks, only adds a few grams of weight. Just remove the headset/bearings, push the foam down in the tubes...see how that works.


Thanks for the response.


----------



## Vee

zigmeister said:


> From the photo, not sure how those actually work. That link you provided is for a threaded barrell adjuster. I don't think any of these frames have threaded derailleur setups.
> 
> I think he is asking about derailleur barrel adjusters that are inline and don't join the frame, unless that frame he has is setup differently, if so my bad! I would definitely put some on for the RD. Front D cable never put adjusters on, never needed that.
> 
> I current have some of these Jagwire ones...hate them. You can only make it looser when riding, and sometimes cables rubbing will loosen the RD cable. If you tighten it, it doesn't have enough friction and it just slips against the bottom part and won't turn. At least with mine they don't work well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm running the better Jagwire adjusters now, much improved system/design...think I paid $10 shipped from eBay to my house for a pair.


Fm015 and fm028 have threaded adjusters. His question was about an fm015, was it not?


----------



## Jayzzzzz

i am a beginner in bike building....but enjoy learning how everything assembles and sort.
Currently looking into building a FM015 with a new campy centaur group set. 

(forum didnt let me post up links until my 10th post)

does anyone know how well the FM015 BSA BB fits with campy centaur's power torque crank set and their outboard cup? 

ride wise.. is it better to have the FM015 with BB30?


----------



## rbart4506

I highly doubt you will notice a ride difference between BB30/BSA...You select that based on your crank system...


----------



## MTBMaven

jasonhudson said:


> Ok. That Farsport 50mm tubular is the only wider (generic chinese carbon) tubular rim I had seen. The website indicates 20 and 24 hole drillings, but I would not be surprised if you could get 28 hole on request. It seems a bit over rimmed and under spoked for 'cross to me, but 28 spokes might work with discs for a lighter guy?


Hey guys, there a really long thread on the Wheels and Tires board on Chinese wheels. You might want to move this stuff over there were people focused on wheel issues can help. Possibly your questions have already been answered. Today's PSA.


----------



## zigmeister

Vee said:


> Fm015 and fm028 have threaded adjusters. His question was about an fm015, was it not?


Not sure. That is why I put in my postif it has threaded, then my mistake.


----------



## Jayzzzzz

rbart4506 said:


> I highly doubt you will notice a ride difference between BB30/BSA...You select that based on your crank system...


*noted :thumbsup:


----------



## mrcreosote

*Yishun CX01 (Dengfu FM058) - followup*

Some pics now it is finished - just took it on a shakedown ride, and apart from the headset needing a little adjustment it has performed well up to expectations. This will be my commuter/recreational bike.

Specs

Yishun CX01 56cm BB30 gloss 3K
Fulcrum Racing Torq Compact Carbon 50/34 175mm crankset
Record Compact Carbon Titanium Front Derailler + Speen Umlenker
Chorus 10 Speed Carbon Rear Derailleur
Chorus 10 Speed Carbon Ergo shifters
Campagnolo Record chain w. KMC 'missing link'
Chorus 11-25 cassette
TRP RL-951 Carbon top mount levers
Ritchey Pro Logic II bars
Ritchey WCS 4-axis stem
Ritchey Pro Headset
TRP CX 8.4 brakes
Ritchey Pro Paradigm pedals
Spin Industrial hub set 20/24
Edge Design skewers
Kinlin XR380 Rims
Pillar PSR X-TRA 1422 spokes
Michelin Cyclocross Jet tyres
Ritchey Carbon Pro seat post
Selle Bassano Vuelta Titanium saddle
Controltech carbon bottle cage
Serfas carbon bar tape

all up weight 8.5 kgs.


----------



## GeneralSparks

Front mech question. 

The cable for my front mech exits the frame at the BB and heads up to the lock nut on the front mech, the only issue is the front mech spring gets in the way of the cable so the able rubs against it. This is making the shifting exceptionally hard to sort. I have a Sram force bottom pull bottom swing mech I think. Do I need a top swing?


----------



## GeneralSparks

Guess a pic would help...


----------



## GeneralSparks

Upside down but can still see the kink over the spring. Cable flicks over that when changing gear which takes the tension out of the cable so the front gears don't work


----------



## maxxevv

GeneralSparks said:


> Upside down but can still see the kink over the spring. Cable flicks over that when changing gear which takes the tension out of the cable so the front gears don't work


Which FD is that ?? 

For Shimano FD's, you're supposed to clamp the cable on the opposite side of the pinch bolt. And if yours is one, it should solve the problem. 

https://www.shimano.com/media/techd...01/SI-5LW0A-001-ENG_v1_m56577569830671268.pdf

Illustrative representation on the right side of the page with cable routing.


----------



## GeneralSparks

It's a SRAM force one. Had the cable on the other side an stil had the problem. The cable also has to head back from the hole it exits out of the frame rather than straight up, worried about it cutting into the frame.


----------



## alien4fish

Are there any video's out there of anyone doing a complete build on one of these frames up on the You Tube?
I did a search and couldnt really find anything that was DYI'er build, Most everything up On the YouTube was a commercial for a shop, however I did find a couple short vids shot in Asia wher the guys were having issues routing the cables in an internal cable frame.
When I get my frame(FM098 from Dengfu) I will shoot some videos on my assembly proccess, from cable routing to the BB30 crank assembly to installing the crown race.
I would encourage some of you other builders to do the same, at least we can create a data base of sorts to help others on these builds,Since we are in uncharted territory here on these Chinese frames


----------



## GeneralSparks

I'm a bit worried that the Cable routing for the front mech comes out too far forward. It's about 17mm in ( see pic) and it looks to me like it should be a lot further towards the back. Anyone else with an FM039 know if this is in correct position?


----------



## GeneralSparks

Have fired off an email to Hongfu. From all the pics ive seen the cable routing should be further back.


----------



## tthome

*this looks to be somewhat Cervelo'ish and I think Di2 compatible*

This is from Flyxii It's the FLX-FR-315. From what I've read on the forums it's Di2 compatible out of the box. I'm curious if anyone has any experience with this frame? This would be my 4th Chinese Carbon Frame. I own an FM001, FM015 and some other chinese frame that doesn't have a number designation.

What frame does this one mostly resemble or is it it's own mold? I like the squared off top tube. It very closely resembles my 2012 BMC Road Racer.


----------



## lacofdfireman

*How come I can't find a Chinese Carbon company producing bike for Tall riders?*

I have been searching all over and can't seem to find any of the Chinese Carbon manufactures that are producing a bike over 60cm. Matter of fact most of the ones I have found don't make anything over a 58cm. Being almost 6'5 I need a minimum of 61cm or larger in a carbon frame. Right now I am riding a Carbon Ridley Excalibur in an XL which I believe is a 61cm and really love the bike. I just would like to build up a totally custom bike for fun. Also as far as the Chinese Carbon wheelsets, anyone know if these wheelsets will support 240lbs? I have always wanted some carbon wheels but don't really want to shell out $2k for wheels. I would love to get some 50-60mm carbon clinchers. Any information on Chinese Manufactures that are building bikes for us larger riders would be appreciated, also wheels. I figure there should be a market for it since they build most the bikes out there anyways and are just rebranded..


----------



## ericm979

I have yet to see a 60cm+ generic chinese frame. I'm sure it'll happen eventually. Keep looking.

I have a set of chinese carbon clinchers (and a set of Reynolds). I would not recommend them for someone who is 240 lbs unless you don't ride down hills. I know you have some steep technical descents there in LA. Carbon clinchers tend to overheat from braking on descents. I weigh 100 lbs less than you and know how to descend, and there are descents there in LA that I will not use carbon clinchers on.

Get some aero wheels with aluminium brake tracks. The weight penalty is about 2-300g, which is nothing out of 240lbs + bike.


----------



## MTBMaven

alien4fish said:


> Are there any video's out there of anyone doing a complete build on one of these frames up on the You Tube?
> I did a search and couldnt really find anything that was DYI'er build, Most everything up On the YouTube was a commercial for a shop, however I did find a couple short vids shot in Asia wher the guys were having issues routing the cables in an internal cable frame.
> When I get my frame(FM098 from Dengfu) I will shoot some videos on my assembly proccess, from cable routing to the BB30 crank assembly to installing the crown race.
> I would encourage some of you other builders to do the same, at least we can create a data base of sorts to help others on these builds,Since we are in uncharted territory here on these Chinese frames


Do a search for Sheldon Brown, all the information you seek is there. But you might have to read, no videos.


----------



## alien4fish

MTBMaven said:


> Do a search for Sheldon Brown, all the information you seek is there. But you might have to read, no videos.


 hhhhmmmmm yeah,...... im kinda looking for video's....hhhhmmm ok
and im still waiting for those Q E D reports too..........


----------



## normh

mtbboy41 said:


> Hi all My Miracle MC0008 has arrived today. <snip></snip>
> I am waiting for the Dura Ace groupset to arrive so I can start building it up.
> 
> I had better get my post count up so I can post some pictures.
> Cheers from
> Hobart Australia


Hi,
I am looking at buying the Dengfu FM098 but I also need the groupset, where are people getting their groupsets from? China also? from the frame supplier?

Also with warranty, is it worth buying 2 frames and not worrying about the warranty? or are the frames that good that there are few problems. I have read lots of kudos in these threads but have seen little on the warrant/problems with frame side of things.
Any advice?
I am in South Australia so will need to import, any hidden costs?

thanks
Norm :blush2:


----------



## gb155

Hi guys

Anyone know where I can get a 60cm fm028 from and tgr current prices ?

Thanks


----------



## beij

normh said:


> Hi,
> I am looking at buying the Dengfu FM098 but I also need the groupset, where are people getting their groupsets from? China also? from the frame supplier?
> 
> Also with warranty, is it worth buying 2 frames and not worrying about the warranty? or are the frames that good that there are few problems. I have read lots of kudos in these threads but have seen little on the warrant/problems with frame side of things.
> Any advice?
> I am in South Australia so will need to import, any hidden costs?
> 
> thanks
> Norm :blush2:


Hi Norm, I've had three Chinese frames and an FM066 on the way- no hidden costs so far (Victoria). I've never had a problem, crashed one pretty bad but only scratched the outer layer. Reports from others suggest these frams stack up well to carbon name brands in terms of reliability. Never bought a groupset from them though so can't comment. Hope this helps. Cheers


----------



## Tswifty

tthome said:


> This is from Flyxii It's the FLX-FR-315. From what I've read on the forums it's Di2 compatible out of the box. I'm curious if anyone has any experience with this frame? This would be my 4th Chinese Carbon Frame. I own an FM001, FM015 and some other chinese frame that doesn't have a number designation.
> 
> What frame does this one mostly resemble or is it it's own mold? I like the squared off top tube. It very closely resembles my 2012 BMC Road Racer.


Looks more like a Giant TCR Or what ever there aero one is. To suggest it looks like a BMC is silly its not boxxy enough


----------



## pjb0057

Just had 'the' email to say my AC053 frame is finally ready for shipment. They are asking what value i want to delare to customs. What have other people said? Ive read some horrible %'s Thanks


----------



## mtbboy41

normh said:


> Hi,
> I am looking at buying the Dengfu FM098 but I also need the groupset, where are people getting their groupsets from? China also? from the frame supplier?
> 
> Also with warranty, is it worth buying 2 frames and not worrying about the warranty? or are the frames that good that there are few problems. I have read lots of kudos in these threads but have seen little on the warrant/problems with frame side of things.
> Any advice?
> I am in South Australia so will need to import, any hidden costs?
> 
> thanks
> Norm :blush2:


G'day Norm,
I am very happy with my MC008. The quality is great and the order with miracle was very smooth. You just have to be prepared for some misunderstandings in communication. Live chat worked well for me. I got my dura ace groupset from Germany. No import duties on the frame or parts as Bike 24 sent it in two packages.
Nowdays , the hardest part of the process is choosing which frame to buy. Everyone on this forum is very helpful but be careful to search before you ask.

Cheers
David


----------



## Italianrider76

Tswifty said:


> Looks more like a Giant TCR Or what ever there aero one is. To suggest it looks like a BMC is silly its not boxxy enough


Agreed........the geo is the same as a Giant TCR.


----------



## zigmeister

GeneralSparks said:


> Silly question. Since I don't have a BB30 as I was expecting, is SRAM GXP the style of BB I will need with a threaded bottom bracket?
> 
> With so many Bb/headset standards these days I get easily confused.


SRAM GXP specifically has a 24mm spindle on the drive side, 30mm ND side. But, they are all a standard BSA threaded 68mm shell.

So, depending on which cranks you want to use, it will then require the specific BB bracket with bearings to match the type of cranks. But all will fit the standard BSA thread pretty much. There are a few other standards, but Shimano, Sram, FSA and the likes, have a screw in adapter/bearings for the BSA shell you get.

Just decide which cranks you are getting, then make sure you get the correct BB to use with it.


----------



## danvuquoc

pjb0057 said:


> Just had 'the' email to say my AC053 frame is finally ready for shipment. They are asking what value i want to delare to customs. What have other people said? Ive read some horrible %'s Thanks


I hope you got the ISP version  also -- mine was put at full value of $625 but labeled "bicycle part sample". No customs issues.


----------



## Go-zilla

MTBMaven said:


> Do a search for Sheldon Brown, all the information you seek is there. But you might have to read, no videos.


Long live Sheldon's legacy and contributions to all of us, amen.

You can also check out Park Tool video, they have a bunch of them there.


----------



## tthome

Tswifty said:


> Looks more like a Giant TCR Or what ever there aero one is. To suggest it looks like a BMC is silly its not boxxy enough


I should restate my BMC reference a little more clearly...the top tube is just about the only BMC looking part of the bike (squarish top), not the whole frame. Thanks for the reply on the Giant TCR.


----------



## deangene

*FM039 won't shift*

I should predicate this by saying that I've built up dozens of bikes, and I know what I'm doing.

I'm trying to finish building my Hongfu FM039, but the shifting is giving me fits. The housing ends are clean & capped, and the cables slide through both the housing and frame without issue. However, when I shift, the shifters move but the derailers don't.

The FM039 has internal cable runs, although I'm not sure what they used to actually guide the cables. There is a bit more resistance than I'd expect but not what I'd consider out of line for an internally-cabled frame.

I pulled the seatpost and shined a light downward. It looks like something is moving down there, but I can't tell anything definite. The frame has an English-threaded BB insert, so it isn't like I can pull the crank and see what's going on.

Anyone else experience this issue, and if so how did you resolve it?

Thanks in advance.

--Gene


----------



## slabber

kip.duff said:


> I hope to remove my BB30 Cannondale Si Hollowgram crank and bearing set from my CAAD7 for use in an FM039. I'm assuming that the bike comes with a standard metal BB bore with the snap-ring grooves (and snap-rings) ready for installation of the two bearings. I'm having trouble finding a detailed picture in this thread of a Hongfu BB30 BB. (BTW, when moving around and searching in this thread, my computer is struggling, and it takes a lot of time. Don't know whether it's my computer or this thread) Can anyone tell me their BB30 install experiences with Hongfu? Advice?


I've got a 49cm HF FM-015 3K weave with matte clearcoat and BB30 that I've had for almost two years.

The bike comes with standard BB bore, but there's a step up inside so you cannot use a BB30 to BSA adapter that slides in.

The snap ring grooves are present but the snap rings are not included. I purchased the Truvativ/SRAM BB30 bottom bracket sets that come with everything included (assuming your cranks didn't like mine as I bought them open box).




technospolar said:


> I've tried to research this in this 13 page thread and some of the priors.
> 
> DENGFU on Alibaba/tony reports a 2 year warranty. Does anyone have a Warranty statement? How about experience dealing with the warranty...
> 
> I'm considering an Ultegra or Force build of their Black/Red FM098 with a LBS build up.
> I've read through the quite lengthy threads, but is their a nice summary recommendation cheat sheet?





zigmeister said:


> I'm personally making an assumption that it will be likely impossible to get them to replace a frame/fork if something goes wrong.
> 
> Kind of treating my Chinese frames like a used name brand frame, no warranty and you are on your own.
> 
> I haven't heard any stories of people's frames/forks busting, and getting them replaced. Would like to hear any of those tales!





Bridgey said:


> Pedal Force happily paid for the repairs of my bottom bracket (the whole insert was spinning within the frame) without me sending it back ($165 AUD). I supplied them with photos and youtube videos I'd made of it. I'm sure it was a cheaper alternative for them and was good for me as I couldn't do without the bike for a month or so.
> 
> Alternatively, they were happy to send me a new frame if I sent the other back. I negotiated not to send the other back but rather pay the postage on their behalf to get it here. The wait was going to be awhile as they had none in stock. So, in the end I decided to just go with them repairing the other frame as I decided I wanted a Chinarello as my race bike vs the CG1 anyways. I still use the repaired one as a training only bike.
> 
> So I guess it depends who you go through.





technospolar said:


> I've tried to research this in this 13 page thread and some of the priors.
> 
> DENGFU on Alibaba/tony reports a 2 year warranty. Does anyone have a Warranty statement? How about experience dealing with the warranty...


I'm about to test out the Hong Fu warranty process for the second time. I had two minor defects on my frame when originally purchased: 

1. seatpost bore slightly oversized requiring beer can shim and 
2. misaligned rear derailleur downtube cable stop (pics in older version of thread, 2.0 or 3.0?). 

I accepted both minor defects and have lived with them without significant issue.

Yesterday however, I found that my BB30 shell has cracked on the non-drive side. Was in contact with Jenny today and she's advised that they'll cover it under warranty but I have to ship the frame back (at my expense, not unexpected) She stated they'll repair it... I asked how and she advised 3M adhesive so sounds like the BB30 shells are sleeved perhaps?

Anyhow, I'm just under the 2 year mark right now (purchased in June 2010). I'll update as the situation progresses.

<a href="https://s684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/?action=view&current=CIMG46163.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/th_CIMG46163.jpg" border="0" alt="" ></a>


----------



## ms6073

deangene said:


> There is a bit more resistance than I'd expect but not what I'd consider out of line for an internally-cabled frame.


I had similar issues with my Dengfu FM018 TT frame which has internal cable runs/guides. Initially I tried to use a Alligator iLinks - lightweight lined cable system similar to Nokon cables - but still had issues with rear shifting. After fussing with the shifting for more than a week, I finally got some Gore RideOn Professional deraileur and brake cables and while YMMV, I now use these on all our bikes (Road, TT, CX).


----------



## marinhousehold

being new to the forum, I am so impressed with the amount of info I have been able to get from everyone.
I am now saving up to get my chinese frame. Hopefully it turns out as good as some of the ones I have seen on this forum.


----------



## mrcreosote

GeneralSparks said:


> Upside down but can still see the kink over the spring. Cable flicks over that when changing gear which takes the tension out of the cable so the front gears don't work


Just a thought, but perhaps that hole is meant for Di2 cable?


----------



## BoOst3d

thanks for all the knowledge in this thread. I look forward to building a TT in the future


----------



## MTBMaven

alien4fish said:


> hhhhmmmmm yeah,...... im kinda looking for video's....hhhhmmm ok
> and im still waiting for those Q E D reports too..........


No seriously. Sheldon Brown's information will give you just about all the information you need for building your bike. I've built at least 5 bike and maintained my bikes myself for years based on the information I learned from his site. I know it's kind of old school with out videos and all but the information you seek can be found on that site.

And BTW it's TPS Report. Know your meme.


----------



## GeneralSparks

mrcreosote said:


> Just a thought, but perhaps that hole is meant for Di2 cable?


I did have that thought but seen plenty of pics of other FM039 frames with normal front mechs. 

Deangene any chance you could measure the distance between the back of your seat tube and where the hole for the front mech cable is. Mine is 17mm and I think that's too much hence why my cable is getting caught on the mech spring. Cheers.

Gonna take it into the bike shop tonight to check I'm not being an idiot.


----------



## mrcreosote

GeneralSparks said:


> I did have that thought but seen plenty of pics of other FM039 frames with normal front mechs.
> 
> Deangene any chance you could measure the distance between the back of your seat tube and where the hole for the front mech cable is. Mine is 17mm and I think that's too much hence why my cable is getting caught on the mech spring. Cheers.
> 
> Gonna take it into the bike shop tonight to check I'm not being an idiot.


There is a close up shot of the BB area at
Hongfu bike frame,carbon road frame FM039 in 2011 products, buy Hongfu bike frame,carbon road frame FM039 in 2011 products from alibaba.com

Also the geometry pic on that page seems to indicate the hole should line up roughly vertically below the bolts holding the 'braze on' 

what does yours look like in comparison?


----------



## GeneralSparks

mrcreosote said:


> There is a close up shot of the BB area at
> Hongfu bike frame,carbon road frame FM039 in 2011 products, buy Hongfu bike frame,carbon road frame FM039 in 2011 products from alibaba.com
> 
> Also the geometry pic on that page seems to indicate the hole should line up roughly vertically below the bolts holding the 'braze on'
> 
> what does yours look like in comparison?


There's a pic on page 71 but I think mines further forward compared to the pic on their site. The cable has to come backwards out of the hole to reach the clamping bolt rather than straight up.


----------



## Coolhand

MTBMaven said:


> And BTW it's TPS Report. Know your meme.


Don't forget the cover sheet. . .


----------



## slabber

slabber said:


> I've got a 49cm HF FM-015 3K weave with matte clearcoat and BB30 that I've had for almost two years.
> 
> The bike comes with standard BB bore, but there's a step up inside so you cannot use a BB30 to BSA adapter that slides in.
> 
> The snap ring grooves are present but the snap rings are not included. I purchased the Truvativ/SRAM BB30 bottom bracket sets that come with everything included (assuming your cranks didn't like mine as I bought them open box).
> 
> Yesterday however, I found that my BB30 shell has cracked on the non-drive side. Was in contact with Jenny today and she's advised that they'll cover it under warranty but I have to ship the frame back (at my expense, not unexpected) She stated they'll repair it... I asked how and she advised 3M adhesive so sounds like the BB30 shells are sleeved perhaps?
> 
> Anyhow, I'm just under the 2 year mark right now (purchased in June 2010). I'll update as the situation progresses.
> 
> <a href="https://s684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/?action=view&current=CIMG46163.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/th_CIMG46163.jpg" border="0" alt="" ></a>












*Looks like this was a false alarm* 

Jenny confirmed this was expected appearance of non-drive side cup. I swapped out my bearings that felt perfect and installed some fresh ceramic units that I had acquired a few months back and so far everything looks/sounds like it is fine. Back to normal. 

I'm flummoxed as to the cause of the loud cracking on crank rotation though... it was one of the hottest days of the year so far on Sunday, over 35C, so not sure if something had dried out on the frame or otherwise.

Anyhow, I'll post up if I figure it out.


----------



## mrcreosote

slabber said:


> I'm flummoxed as to the cause of the loud cracking on crank rotation though... it was one of the hottest days of the year so far on Sunday, over 35C, so not sure if something had dried out on the frame or otherwise.
> 
> Anyhow, I'll post up if I figure it out.


FWIW, I had a similar issue with a pedal. no problem most of the time, but when it got hot, I could feel something 'give' in the axle or bearing with each rotation. My guess was the temperature was enough to cause enough expansion, combined with the wear and perhaps the thinning of the lubrication over time to cause the problem. Solution - new pedals.

Also, sometimes it just needs taking it all apart and putting it back together again. So it is not the new bearings that makes the difference, but the re-assembly.

cheers

MrC.


----------



## alien4fish

MTBMaven said:


> No seriously. Sheldon Brown's information will give you just about all the information you need for building your bike. I've built at least 5 bike and maintained my bikes myself for years based on the information I learned from his site. I know it's kind of old school with out videos and all but the information you seek can be found on that site.
> 
> And BTW it's TPS Report. Know your meme.


I stand corrected:thumbsup: I will check out the Sheldon's site......
Two weeks down two weeks to go! Ihope


----------



## quixoticle

Greetings! 

This is my first post as a member of these fair Forums. I joined principally to ask this question to begin with, but I plan on participating here to a greater extent. Anyway, after searching for about a year for a decently priced used carbon road frameset, I've been left pretty frustrated. I'm of modest means, and I just don't feel comfortable spending $1500-$2000+ on a mid- to high-end frameset, even used. I live in NYC, where bikes take quite a beating, so I like the idea of a carbon ride I have no qualms disposing with if and when the time comes. 

I've done a decent amount of reading and research, mostly in various threads here, and still have some more specific questions. Has anyone done business with A_BAYGOODS / E_BAYGOODS? Any info on the quality of their product and the integrity of their business? I have my eye on a model which, unlike other frames people here have been dealing with, does not have a distinguishing model number. This might be toughtlessness on the part of the fabricator/seller, or an ingenious means of quelling reviews and comparative discussions on the particular frameset. 

Any help and info is much appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## pietervdw

@quixoticle

Seems like e_baygoods became a_baygoods

Bought pretty much a whole bike from e_baygoods in November. Very good communication from them, usually the same or next day. e_baygoods is an ebay store for Flyxii. Everything was delivered as promised and haven't had any problems thus far.

Ordered my dad exactly the same thing yesterday, received the tracking number today. Will unfortunately take 4weeks to get to South Africa

Buy with confidence


----------



## mavisto

I would assume that as they are made in a mould rather than from actual tubing, they can't justify making larger frames for a small number of big people.

Also, if they are ripping off the big guys, like many people think they are, they won't be able to buy in bigger frames to copy because they aren't actually made by the likes of Pinarello etc.

p.s. Trek do their Madone in a 62cm version.


----------



## zigmeister

GeneralSparks said:


> It's a SRAM force one. Had the cable on the other side an stil had the problem. The cable also has to head back from the hole it exits out of the frame rather than straight up, worried about it cutting into the frame.


Can you say frame design flaw?!?! The guy that drilled the hole just put it in a spot instead of over a few mms. Drill another one!!!! Glue up the hold that was there!

Why does the cable come out in the side like that? Most come out behind the seat tube at the base/top of the BB shell, then the cable hole allows it to run up outside of that spring.

Don't know what to say, maybe a washer/spacer of some sort to get the FD back some to clear the cable route?

Maybe put some kind of a sleeve over the cable so it will still rub, but do it smoother and not damage the cable/FD?

Good luck with that one.


----------



## Seneb

slabber said:


> *Looks like this was a false alarm*
> 
> Jenny confirmed this was expected appearance of non-drive side cup. I swapped out my bearings that felt perfect and installed some fresh ceramic units that I had acquired a few months back and so far everything looks/sounds like it is fine. Back to normal.
> 
> I'm flummoxed as to the cause of the loud cracking on crank rotation though... it was one of the hottest days of the year so far on Sunday, over 35C, so not sure if something had dried out on the frame or otherwise.
> 
> Anyhow, I'll post up if I figure it out.


A year-ish ago I had a similar problem. I took apart the bb a couple times, inspected everything, re-installed it, and still had the creaking. I swore it was coming from the bb. Finally after thoroughly going through the bike I found out it was the spring in my rear derailleur. After greasing it the creak went away. It just recently came back and this time I wasn't worried since I knew exactly what it was. I live near the ocean, so I have had to learn to be more careful about the little parts on my bikes that never were a problem living in the hot valley.


----------



## The_Maraquis_of_Carabas

GeneralSparks said:


> I'm a bit worried that the Cable routing for the front mech comes out too far forward. It's about 17mm in ( see pic) and it looks to me like it should be a lot further towards the back. Anyone else with an FM039 know if this is in correct position?


looks about the same in mine and I've had no problems.


----------



## The_Maraquis_of_Carabas

marinhousehold said:


> being new to the forum, I am so impressed with the amount of info I have been able to get from everyone.
> I am now saving up to get my chinese frame. Hopefully it turns out as good as some of the ones I have seen on this forum.


make sure you get the right tools (torque wrenches especially for working on carbon - I recommend beam style torque wrenches as they don't need to be calibrated) for the build as well and watch plenty of videos on Youtube.


----------



## Dick Sternum

Hello - thought I'd make my first post here after reading through the Chinese Carbon Threads 4, 5 & 6..

I've recently got into road bikes after years of mountain biking, and have been riding a parts bin special built around an old Orange Dynamo frame for a while now. To be honest that frame feels a bit too big for me at 60cm, bar height is OK, but the reach is too long and I have little stand over height. So last week I ordered an RB002 (FM028) from CarbonZone via eBay to replace it in 3k matt finish with English BB. I went for a 56 size frame which looking at the geometry charts has a similar stack height due to it's longer head tube but less reach than the Dynamo along with giving me quite a bit more stand over height (which is exactly what I want). Plan is to move everything across from that onto the 002 and since the seat post / clamp etc is the same size so it should be reasonably straight forward. 

Turned out they didn't have stock, but they offered me the internal cable version (which I guess is the FM029), same size and finish but with BB30. I'd not come across that particular frame at that point so asked them to send some photos across and verified the geometry before giving the go ahead. Obviously I've since seen the frame talked about on here so I guess that CarbonZone are starting to sell the FM029 as their RB002. BB30 isn't ideal since my cranks use an external BB, but I guess the worst case scenario is that I sell them (I bought them used off eBay anyway) and buy a BB30 set, or run an adapter for now.

Anyway, got an email waiting for me this morning to say the the frame had shipped along with the tracking number, so hopefully the frame will be with me soon and I'll post back with first impressions when it lands. Build up will take a while since I'm holding off ordering any parts until I have the frame since there's been a fair few posts (although not recently as far as I remember) from people getting different BB shells etc to what they ordered. Either way, I figure it's easier to wait until I have the frame, and then just get what I need to build it up.

The kit I'm moving across is Campag centaur group set, Fulcrum Racing 5s shod with Conti GP4000S, parts bin stem and seat post and Easton EA50 bars. Cranks are currently FSA Energy compact, but as I say, I may end up changing these.

_DS_


----------



## zigmeister

slabber said:


> *Looks like this was a false alarm*
> 
> Jenny confirmed this was expected appearance of non-drive side cup. I swapped out my bearings that felt perfect and installed some fresh ceramic units that I had acquired a few months back and so far everything looks/sounds like it is fine. Back to normal.
> 
> I'm flummoxed as to the cause of the loud cracking on crank rotation though... it was one of the hottest days of the year so far on Sunday, over 35C, so not sure if something had dried out on the frame or otherwise.
> 
> Anyhow, I'll post up if I figure it out.


That is definitely a different method of doing a BB30. Big companies use a standard BB30 shell. It looks like that is some kind of sleeved shell.

DengFu, well, their manufacturer of the FM098, it looks like they just ream/bore out the BSA threads and shell to BB30 standard of about 42mm outer diameter for the bearings. There were machine marks left on the inside I had to smooth slightly. And, my right side bearing isn't as tight as the left one in the shell. But, that could be a slight tolerance issue with the bearing outer diameter itself.

My shell doesn't have this sleeve/ring appearance around the outside of the inner shell like your photo Also, my CDale supersix didn't have that either.

I wonder if they sleeve their BSA shells, or all shells for that matter for whatever they need to have? More than one way to skin a cat I guess to meet certain requests/standards for the different shells for customers, without using a different base shell portion. I would be curious to see a BSA photo like this one and see if there is the inner sleeve ring for the different size/threads?

Anyway, that looks like some sleeve/ring they put inside the main shell and epoxy it into place as they confirmed. Doesn't appear to be a crack as they said.

I think it is safe and good from what I see also.


----------



## zigmeister

Guys, a question for FM098 users. What nm torque do you have your seat collar at? Also, running carbon paste?

I hit some pretty rough bumps during a training crit, seat post slipped. I just torqued it to about 4nm originally with no carbon paste. Since then, I put carbon paste on and now at 4.5nm.

Just wondering what others are doing and experience recently. 

I remember my CDale supersix had I think a 5-6nm limit. So I didn't want to go above that with the frame/clamp, I snapped my supersix collar bolt once right at the limit. No fun.

Thx


----------



## flemfka5

*FM-039 3K matte BSA - Questions and or comments*

Hi guys

As I mentioned in the previous four comments on the previous thread of this forum, I will be building up a HongFu FM-039 3K matte BSA. Since I have personally been looking all over the internet to find reviews and info on this particular frame, I thought that i would save people in my situation the hassle of extensive research 

I will post pictures of my build as it progresses, and naturally, I will answer questions that anyone might have regarding, well...pretty much anything about the FM039 frame.

Hope this thread will be a help to people considering buying carbon from HongFu or china in general

Might I say, that I have not yet received the frame, but latest EMS-Tracking confirms it having arrived in germany today. (Hope it doesn't get caught in f&#%!g danish customs!)

- Thorbjørn


----------



## PaxRomana

flemfka5 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> As I mentioned in the previous four comments on the previous thread of this forum, I will be building up a HongFu FM-039 3K matte BSA. Since I have personally been looking all over the internet to find reviews and info on this particular frame, I thought that i would save people in my situation the hassle of extensive research
> 
> I will post pictures of my build as it progresses, and naturally, I will answer questions that anyone might have regarding, well...pretty much anything about the FM039 frame.
> 
> Hope this thread will be a help to people considering buying carbon from HongFu or china in general
> 
> Might I say, that I have not yet received the frame, but latest EMS-Tracking confirms it having arrived in germany today. (Hope it doesn't get caught in f&#%!g danish customs!)
> 
> - Thorbjørn


In before the move.


----------



## maxxevv

Looks like it might have been drilled/machined for PF30 instead and shimmed up to fit BB30 ?


----------



## normh

Mtbboy41 and beij, Thank you for your response and advice.
I am just trying to get some more information from Dengfu but I will probably order a frame and wheels. I need to shop around first to see where I can get a DuraAce Di2 groupset at a reasonable price first.

What is the process for ordering a frame? do you just say I want this XXX frame or do you spec it with decals and what is the difference that I see with 12K 3k weave and UD? 

thanks again

Norm


----------



## zigmeister

maxxevv said:


> Looks like it might have been drilled/machined for PF30 instead and shimmed up to fit BB30 ?


I think the different manufacturers are taking different approaches. I asked earlier it would be interesting to see one of these frames in a BSA BB. 

Dengfu's manufacturer of the FM098, from what I can tell, simply bores/reams out the BSA threads to make it BB30. There is no sleeving, or dedicated shell. So they just use the one standard 68mm threaded BSA shell, then bore it to specs for BB30.

I would like to see the BSA version of that frame and see if it is a sleeved BSA setup they use. Basically, a sleeved method, instead of boring it out. Just an opposite method/approach to accomplish the same thing. 

I think I would prefer the bored/reamed out method, the sleeving, although epoxied into place tightly I'm sure, is a possibly weak point at the joint that could wear/crack/seperate from the shell and the sleeve come loose.


----------



## zender

Anyone pull the trigger yet on the new FM069 TT frame? From what I'm reading, they're pricing it at about 1200 bucks with brakes and headset, so seems to be new territory for their business model.


----------



## orlin03

zender said:


> Anyone pull the trigger yet on the new FM069 TT frame? From what I'm reading, they're pricing it at about 1200 bucks with brakes and headset, so seems to be new territory for their business model.


That's the price I was quoted, although a) I didn't realized it was with brakes & headset, and b) the price drops SUBSTANTIALLY with an order of 6 or more. So if there are a half dozen of you interested, you should form an alliance!


----------



## EvenOlder

*Miracle Trade MT-MC055 Build*

Just finished my build of the MC055 frame. All parts added are ebay and used on my previous bikes.









Built easily, great fit and finish, rides great.










Full build report at:
https://velobuild.com/component/kunena/6-build-photos/2517-mt-mc055-build-first?Itemid=0#2517

Highly Recommended.


----------



## 1805078

EvenOlder said:


> Just finished my build of the MC055 frame. All parts added are ebay and used on my previous bikes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Built easily, great fit and finish, rides great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Full build report at:
> https://velobuild.com/component/kunena/6-build-photos/2517-mt-mc055-build-first?Itemid=0#2517
> 
> Highly Recommended.


Thank you very much for your report. I was thinking the exact same build up as a tri bike. Going for the lighter frame rather than tonnes of carbon. Well done. I will note your comments about the read brake caliper. I have dura ace 7900 so it will be interesting to see if this fits.

Thanks again


----------



## andresmunoz

Mate, love your build I shall post mine soon


----------



## andresmunoz

Actually, here's mine


----------



## evankuhl

Just some more detail-oriented shots of my FM028, thought someone may want a new wallpaper 






Here she is whole


----------



## buggymancan

34.9 yes


----------



## Tswifty

andresmunoz said:


> Actually, here's mine


SLAM THAT STEM ASAP! That bike looks hideous with that ammount of spacers. If you need that many then you really need to get a bike fit done or better buy a bike that actually fits you not make one fit you.


----------



## ultraman6970

The aero bike that is not set up aero. :thumbsup:



andresmunoz said:


> Actually, here's mine


----------



## ultraman6970

Looks like that to me also. Doesnt mean it wont work anyways.Since everything is press fitted doubt will be a problem. As long as it works chinese dont care 



maxxevv said:


> Looks like it might have been drilled/machined for PF30 instead and shimmed up to fit BB30 ?


----------



## ericTheHalf

andresmunoz said:


> Actually, here's mine


Is it me or are the cranks not 180 degrees apart?


----------



## clj2289

I would be interested in a chinese carbon tandem. Does anyone know if that exists?


----------



## maxxevv

clj2289 said:


> I would be interested in a chinese carbon tandem. Does anyone know if that exists?


Have never seen or heard of one, probably because the market is so niche. 

But there are Titanium tandems though.


----------



## pinarello_man

Has anyone tried one of the seatposts from farsports? Particularly the FSA07, claimed at 130g


----------



## CabDoctor

orlin03 said:


> That's the price I was quoted, although a) I didn't realized it was with brakes & headset, and b) the price drops SUBSTANTIALLY with an order of 6 or more. So if there are a half dozen of you interested, you should form an alliance!


Yeah I'm eyeing it. I just upgraded and now I need something for TTs in stage races. Whats the price for 6 or 10 of these things?


----------



## pjb0057

danvuquoc said:


> I hope you got the ISP version  also -- mine was put at full value of $625 but labeled "bicycle part sample". No customs issues.


Nope. Non-ISP. Really not sure on ISP frames TBH. They put Item Value as $150. Item now "awaiting approval by Customs" since Thursday. Am expecting a bill!! Bicycle Part Sample for next time! ha 

Thanks
Phil


----------



## jmalcolm

hopefully, this hasn't been asked or the answer isn't obvious...I looked around a lot before asking. Are Hung Fu and DengFu the same company? Is there sales operation run by the same people? They seem similar with names, etc.


----------



## cried at birth

*China bike at 12.08 pounds*

Generic frame, fork, rims, integrated stem/handlebar, saddle, tweaked seatclamps from china post, headset, spacers, bottlecages and only a few added expensive components, got me down to 12.08 pounds inc. the pedals. 

Frame, fork and stem/bars are painted matte black. Looks nice.

Some people have replied in another thread that I had a FM028 frame.

Only done the test-ride last night, so I will come back with more feedback. 

The frame is both comfortable and responsive. 
Only done the test-ride last night, so I will come back with more feedback. 

There is quite some flex on the handlebar so I was skeptical, but it does not bother me even on sprint. On the contrary; the front end feels very comfortable. 

I built the wheels myself. They are crazy responsive, have no weight limit and weigh just below 2.20 pounds. The china rims can take quite some spoke-load, so the pillar aero spokes are tuned to perfection. 

The china saddle is not so comfortable though. The irony is that it would be better if they made it even lighter. The rails are stiff as hell which is OK for carbon rail. Unfortunately so is the seat. It does not flex, so I think I will invest in a well proven carbon seat design. 

Pedals is the only component with a real weight limit, so I have invested in some Look KEO blade carbon platforms, that are heavier, but better and nicer and with no weight limit to them. 

Tires require high pressure for nice tarmac, so I will also replace those with more comfortable tires.

Overall; I am pleased with the result, I am looking forward to do tour-racing with it, as it is obvioulsy too lightweight for UCI-racing.


----------



## manfredinator

*Help with frame selection and sizing*

I have read through all of 4.0 - 6.0 and I am finally ready to purchase a frame. I was hoping some of you can help me with a frame size (it's my first road bike). I have narrowed it down to 4 frames but don't know which would be better for me. Some background - I am very lean 5'10 and 145lbs (177.8cm and 65.7kg), run marathons 2-3 x year, swim for exercise 3 times a week and 30 years old. My main concern is that I do not know what style of frame would fit me better. I plan on 2-3x week riding with a local group then (most likely) start racing. I know that I will eventually figure out what I like but would like a good head start. I tried my best to compact all of the info below. 

Measurements
-------------------------------------------
Inseam__________34.8
Trunk___________24.75
Forearm_________13.7
Arm_____________26.6
Thigh____________24.6
Lower Leg________21.85
Sternal Notch_____57
Total Body Height__69.6


____________The Competitive Fit (cm)____Eddy Fit (cm)_______French Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c:______57.3 - 57.8_____58.5 - 59.0	_________60.2 - 60.7
Seat tube range c-t:______59.0 - 59.5______60.2 - 60.7_________61.9 - 62.4
Top tube length:_________54.2 - 54.6______54.2 - 54.6_________55.4 - 55.8
Stem Length:___________11.2 - 11.8______10.1 - 10.7_________10.3 - 10.9
BB-Saddle Position:______75.8 - 77.8______75.0 - 77.0_________73.3 - 75.3
Saddle-Handlebar:________53.8 - 54.4_____54.6 - 55.2__________56.3 - 56.9
Saddle Setback:_________7.2 - 7.6________8.4 - 8.8___________7.9 - 8.3


All based off geometry given by website(s)
__________________Seat Tube_____Top Tube	
FM066____________540___________545
FM015____________550___________547.8
FM028____________540___________543.1
FR-303 (52cm)______520__________548
FR-303 (54cm)______540__________558

Frame websites because I am 100% sure I did not include enough info above : 
FM066 - http://dengfubikes.com/product.asp?id=7&classid=21
FM015 - http://dengfubikes.com/product.asp?id=7&classid=21
FM028 - http://dengfubikes.com/product.asp?id=2&classid=21
FLX-FR-303 http://www.flyxii.com/products_1.asp?menuid=308&id=689

TIA, I look forward to eventually becoming a contributor to RBR after I leech some more info from all of you.


----------



## Tswifty

manfredinator said:


> I have read through all of 4.0 - 6.0 and I am finally ready to purchase a frame. I was hoping some of you can help me with a frame size (it's my first road bike). I have narrowed it down to 4 frames but don't know which would be better for me. Some background - I am very lean 5'10 and 145lbs (177.8cm and 65.7kg), run marathons 2-3 x year, swim for exercise 3 times a week and 30 years old. My main concern is that I do not know what style of frame would fit me better. I plan on 2-3x week riding with a local group then (most likely) start racing. I know that I will eventually figure out what I like but would like a good head start. I tried my best to compact all of the info below.
> 
> Measurements
> -------------------------------------------
> Inseam__________34.8
> Trunk___________24.75
> Forearm_________13.7
> Arm_____________26.6
> Thigh____________24.6
> Lower Leg________21.85
> Sternal Notch_____57
> Total Body Height__69.6
> 
> 
> ____________The Competitive Fit (cm)____Eddy Fit (cm)_______French Fit (cm)
> -------------------------------------------
> Seat tube range c-c:______57.3 - 57.8_____58.5 - 59.0	_________60.2 - 60.7
> Seat tube range c-t:______59.0 - 59.5______60.2 - 60.7_________61.9 - 62.4
> Top tube length:_________54.2 - 54.6______54.2 - 54.6_________55.4 - 55.8
> Stem Length:___________11.2 - 11.8______10.1 - 10.7_________10.3 - 10.9
> BB-Saddle Position:______75.8 - 77.8______75.0 - 77.0_________73.3 - 75.3
> Saddle-Handlebar:________53.8 - 54.4_____54.6 - 55.2__________56.3 - 56.9
> Saddle Setback:_________7.2 - 7.6________8.4 - 8.8___________7.9 - 8.3
> 
> 
> All based off geometry given by website(s)
> __________________Seat Tube_____Top Tube
> FM066____________540___________545
> FM015____________550___________547.8
> FM028____________540___________543.1
> FR-303 (52cm)______520__________548
> FR-303 (54cm)______540__________558
> 
> Frame websites because I am 100% sure I did not include enough info above :
> FM066 - FM015-NON-ISP-DengFuBieks
> FM015 - FM015-NON-ISP-DengFuBieks
> FM028 - FM028-NON-ISP-DengFuBieks
> FLX-FR-303 FLYXI
> 
> TIA, I look forward to eventually becoming a contributor to RBR after I leech some more info from all of you.


Competitive fit says 57cm top tube? For your size that seems very odd i hope there was a mistake somewhere along the way. But you should in my opinion go the FM066. May as well get one of the best new frames on the market.


----------



## ptsbike55

Cried at Birth,
Did you get everything weighed? That is an unsually light weight for a complete bike. I have seen some in the mid 14's, but never the low 12's.


----------



## ms6073

andresmunoz said:


> Actually, here's mine


Going to have to agree with the others as that appears to be 6cm or more of spacers under the aerobars. Risky for road bikes as most manufacturers spec a max of 4cm of spacer/stack height under the bars but in your case, with the added loads placed on aerobars, this is a broken carbon fork steerer tube accident waiting to happen. If a professional fit is not in the budget then you need to seriosuly consider lowering the bars to a max of 4cm stack height and then add risers to raise the aero extensions.


----------



## manfredinator

Tswifty said:


> Competitive fit says 57cm top tube? For your size that seems very odd i hope there was a mistake somewhere along the way. But you should in my opinion go the FM066. May as well get one of the best new frames on the market.


If I'm reading it correctly it seems like the top tube is between 54-55 for all the fits. I also like the FM066 but what are the main differences in the frames? Is one more aggressive than the next, will one fit my body type better? Thanks again.


----------



## cried at birth

ptsbike55 said:


> Cried at Birth,
> Did you get everything weighed? That is an unsually light weight for a complete bike. I have seen some in the mid 14's, but never the low 12's.


Yes; this is the final weight on the hanging digital luggage scale. 
Tested with calibrated weights and it seemed accurate. 

This is not a very unusual weight at all; there are many bikes lighter than this, but not at this price ;-)


----------



## TheBigYin

ericTheHalf said:


> Is it me or are the cranks not 180 degrees apart?


Think it's one of those Rotor RSX4 (or similar) chainsets


----------



## Go-zilla

cried at birth said:


> Yes; this is the final weight on the hanging digital luggage scale.
> Tested with calibrated weights and it seemed accurate.
> 
> This is not a very unusual weight at all; there are many bikes lighter than this, but not at this price ;-)


Yeah, I have seen a Wilier Triestina at a LBS that weight under that. Like cried at birth have said, the price is not anywhere near this range.


----------



## Crawf

cried at birth said:


> Generic frame, fork, rims, integrated stem/handlebar, saddle, tweaked seatclamps from china post, headset, spacers, bottlecages and only a few added expensive components, got me down to 12.08 pounds inc. .


Very clever seat topper setup. Did you just drill straight through the ISP?


----------



## alien4fish

cried at birth said:


> Generic frame, fork, rims, integrated stem/handlebar, saddle, tweaked seatclamps from china post, headset, spacers, bottlecages and only a few added expensive components, got me down to 12.08 pounds inc. the pedals.
> 
> Frame, fork and stem/bars are painted matte black. Looks nice.
> 
> Some people have replied in another thread that I had a FM028 frame.
> 
> Only done the test-ride last night, so I will come back with more feedback.
> 
> The frame is both comfortable and responsive.
> Only done the test-ride last night, so I will come back with more feedback.
> 
> There is quite some flex on the handlebar so I was skeptical, but it does not bother me even on sprint. On the contrary; the front end feels very comfortable.
> 
> I built the wheels myself. They are crazy responsive, have no weight limit and weigh just below 2.20 pounds. The china rims can take quite some spoke-load, so the pillar aero spokes are tuned to perfection.
> 
> The china saddle is not so comfortable though. The irony is that it would be better if they made it even lighter. The rails are stiff as hell which is OK for carbon rail. Unfortunately so is the seat. It does not flex, so I think I will invest in a well proven carbon seat design.
> 
> Pedals is the only component with a real weight limit, so I have invested in some Look KEO blade carbon platforms, that are heavier, but better and nicer and with no weight limit to them.
> 
> Tires require high pressure for nice tarmac, so I will also replace those with more comfortable tires.
> 
> Overall; I am pleased with the result, I am looking forward to do tour-racing with it, as it is obvioulsy too lightweight for UCI-racing.


BRAVO !!!!!!! That is Pure Bike porn right there:thumbsup: BRAVO!!


----------



## clj2289

I did find matrix road tandems and XDS also has a tandem X-B30.

Does anyone have experience dealing with XDS? I wanted to get some more info from them so I sent them a message yesterday, but I have not heard back.


----------



## maxxevv

manfredinator said:


> If I'm reading it correctly it seems like the top tube is between 54-55 for all the fits. I also like the FM066 but what are the main differences in the frames? Is one more aggressive than the next, will one fit my body type better? Thanks again.


That sounds like the correct range for your body proportions. 

As for the type of geometry, will depend on how flexible you are for a start if you have no idea what you prefer. 

If you can stand with your feet hip-width apart and touch the floor with your palms, then almost of all of them are alright for the equivalent top-tube length. If you can barely get past the ankles, then the FM066 and FM028 are better options as they are more upright in their geometry. The FM028 being the most upright in setup position.

At least you will have less fitting issues when setting it up later.


----------



## maxxevv

clj2289 said:


> I did find matrix road tandems and XDS also has a tandem X-B30.
> 
> Does anyone have experience dealing with XDS? I wanted to get some more info from them so I sent them a message yesterday, but I have not heard back.


the Matrix one isn't carbon per se really. Its Alu joints on carbon main-tubes. 

Haven't come across the XDS one though ...


----------



## Tompelan

*seat post*

do you have any problem with the seatpost? The seat post I got is much smaller than the seat tube, and I need to use more than 12nm in order to make the seat post not being dropped or loosen.

It's been six months since i get the frame and they still don't solve my problem.


----------



## Tompelan

timsen said:


> BENG!! NEW ARRIVAL!


Hi, I also have one FM_039 from Hongfu but I have problem with the seat post, as the seat post is much smaller than the seat tube so I need the power up to 12nm to tight up the seat clamp in order the seat post not being dropped. Do you have similar problem? It's been 7 months and they still don't resolve my problem and I never rode it until now.


----------



## cried at birth

Crawf said:


> Very clever seat topper setup. Did you just drill straight through the ISP?


Yes; I checked with a carbon expert if it would be strong enough and he said; no worries at all. The walls are really thick, much to my surprise.


----------



## rbart4506

Tompelan said:


> Hi, I also have one FM_039 from Hongfu but I have problem with the seat post, as the seat post is much smaller than the seat tube so I need the power up to 12nm to tight up the seat clamp in order the seat post not being dropped. Do you have similar problem? It's been 7 months and they still don't resolve my problem and I never rode it until now.


Have you tried carbon assembly paste?? That stuff will work wonders...

If not, some form of a shim...old pop can is what most people use...


----------



## Tompelan

rbart4506 said:


> Have you tried carbon assembly paste?? That stuff will work wonders...
> 
> If not, some form of a shim...old pop can is what most people use...



Thanks for your advice rbart, i have no idea about the carbon assembly paste but i will try to find and try it as the gap between the seat post and seat tube around 0.5mm

the other one, would it work with coke aluminum can? and place it in between the seat post and seat tube?


----------



## rbart4506

I would try the carbon assembly paste...Any bike shop should have some...Basically it's a gel type gritty product...

And yes a coke can is what I was thinking....


----------



## pietervdw

Heard somewhere that hairspray will also do the trick...


----------



## Teo

pietervdw said:


> Heard somewhere that hairspray will also do the trick...


I used hairspray and it worked perfectly for me.


----------



## clj2289

Does anyone have experience with XDS? I saw a couple of post that indicated the XDS products were not high moduls carbon and would be heavier than other products. Is that true across the board? And does anyone know of a reseller or anyone contact to XDS that will return my messages?


----------



## Crappymonkey

Cell phone screen protectors are also an option


----------



## Tompelan

rbart4506 said:


> I would try the carbon assembly paste...Any bike shop should have some...Basically it's a gel type gritty product...
> 
> And yes a coke can is what I was thinking....


Greatt... I've found the finish line carbon assembly paste, i would give it a try... Thanks a lot buddy..


----------



## maxxevv

Crappymonkey said:


> Cell phone screen protectors are also an option


That's something new !


----------



## Code

Thanks guys for all the information. After reading this thread I very tempted to pick up a F069. Looks very sewt


----------



## Code

*sweet


----------



## OveOlsson

Hi there cried at birth!

I REALLY like your built!

Please give some extra information:
In WHAT other forum / thread can i read more about your nice bike?
WHAT frame is it, if not FM028?

Best Regards Ove




cried at birth said:


> Generic frame, fork, rims, integrated stem/handlebar, saddle, tweaked seatclamps from china post, headset, spacers, bottlecages and only a few added expensive components, got me down to 12.08 pounds inc. the pedals.
> 
> Frame, fork and stem/bars are painted matte black. Looks nice.
> 
> Some people have replied in another thread that I had a FM028 frame.


----------



## ms6073

Crappymonkey said:


> Cell phone screen protectors are also an option


I would think some of the adhesive backed 3m protective film which is typically 7-9mil thick as I have used this to shim the mast for the mast topper with the added benefit that it also offers some protection of the the finish on the seat mast of our Giant TCR Advanced SL ISP frames.


----------



## Wadl

Hi guys, I might have the oportunity to change my bike, well my frame, as I have a complete Dura-Ace 7800 group that I could put on a bike.

I would like to buy a Chinarello frame from AliExpress... anybody has any idea how long it would take for me to receive it in canada ?

Thx


----------



## Wadl

*AliExpress, can I thrust them ?*

I am almost pulling the plug on a Chinarello from AliExpress. Now, the only thing stopping me is that I would like to hear from some of you, do you have anything positive or negative to say about them ?

Thx


----------



## ms6073

Well good luck with that. I think if you take some time to read through the Chinese Carbon Thread and Ebay direct version 6.0 thread, you will quickly learn that the site is really just an e-commerce search engine providing one-stop access to hundreds of companies offering thousands of products! Simply put,AliExpress (a subsidiary of Alibaba.com) is really nothing more than a website that sells webspace to manufacturers, wholesalers and resellers.


----------



## Rainerhq

*Ican*

Sorry for OT:
Has anybody been contact with Anna from ICAN. She doesn´t respond my e-mails for 4 days now.
address, I sent mails: [email protected]


----------



## Tswifty

3 day weekend in China from 22nd till Sunday back to normal Monday. Just a heads up


----------



## Rainerhq

Tswifty said:


> 3 day weekend in China from 22nd till Sunday back to normal Monday. Just a heads up


I know that, but I sent her first mail in 18.06. I´ll try next week again.


----------



## 1805078

*cervelo*

Aliexpress.com : Buy Free shipping 2012 Cervelo P3 Di2 carbon bike from Reliable Free shipping 2012 Cervelo P3 Di2 carbon bike suppliers on Killy Pan's store

Anyone sen this before. could be be scam but i thought that you get Escrow protection through Aliexpress express. I have bought a couple of bottle cages through aliexpress and they turned up.

Thoughts anyone


----------



## Coolhand

1805078 said:


> Aliexpress.com : Buy Free shipping 2012 Cervelo P3 Di2 carbon bike from Reliable Free shipping 2012 Cervelo P3 Di2 carbon bike suppliers on Killy Pan's store
> 
> Anyone sen this before. could be be scam but i thought that you get Escrow protection through Aliexpress express. I have bought a couple of bottle cages through aliexpress and they turned up.
> 
> Thoughts anyone


Oh yeah, that's a scam.


----------



## cranecamsou

ms6073 said:


> Going to have to agree with the others as that appears to be 6cm or more of spacers under the aerobars. Risky for road bikes as most manufacturers spec a max of 4cm of spacer/stack height under the bars but in your case, with the added loads placed on aerobars, this is a broken carbon fork steerer tube accident waiting to happen. If a professional fit is not in the budget then you need to seriosuly consider lowering the bars to a max of 4cm stack height and then add risers to raise the aero extensions.


i've heard this advice mtioned a few times, but it doesn't make sense to me. If the point of contact (forearm resting on aerobar pads) doesn't change position from 6cm of stack vs 4cm of stack + risers, then how is the force any different to the steerer?


----------



## orlin03

cranecamsou said:


> i've heard this advice mtioned a few times, but it doesn't make sense to me. If the point of contact (forearm resting on aerobar pads) doesn't change position from 6cm of stack vs 4cm of stack + risers, then how is the force any different to the steerer?


Sheering forces come into play as the stack height goes up. While the steerer tube is quite protected between the headset bearings in the frame, it is vulnerable to sideways & fore/aft forces above the headset. The higher you go, the more these forces can multiply (yes multiply, not simply increase) until it becomes a disaster waiting to happen. Carbon tubes are not resistant to these forces, so there are limits to how many spacers you can add. This I why so many bike manufacturers have started building taller frames, though this in turn hurts those flexible enough to bend down low.


----------



## cranecamsou

orlin03 said:


> Sheering forces come into play as the stack height goes up. While the steerer tube is quite protected between the headset bearings in the frame, it is vulnerable to sideways & fore/aft forces above the headset. The higher you go, the more these forces can multiply (yes multiply, not simply increase) until it becomes a disaster waiting to happen. Carbon tubes are not resistant to these forces, so there are limits to how many spacers you can add. This I why so many bike manufacturers have started building taller frames, though this in turn hurts those flexible enough to bend down low.


Very good point. I was thinking simply of the distance away from the crown in both scenarios. Considering distance from the top headset bearing to stem makes total sense now. Thanks :thumbsup:


----------



## Go-zilla

cranecamsou said:


> Considering distance from the top headset bearing to stem makes total sense now. Thanks :thumbsup:





orlin03 said:


> The higher you go, the more these forces can multiply (yes multiply, not simply increase) until it becomes a disaster waiting to happen.


orliln03 got the right point. Not only the distance from the top headset bearing to the stem, but the length of the aero bar or in other case the width of handle bar itself is acting like a wrench lever mechanism, that is why it becomes dangerous. If it really needs to run this tall, it probably a) wrong size frame; b) should consider those folk with alloy stem, a little heavier but well worth than sitting in hospital for months.


----------



## Tompelan

rick44uk said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've been a reader of this forum for nearly 2 years and an owner of a Hong Fu FM039 for nearly 1 year now.
> 
> I thought it was about time I posted a review and some photos of my bike as I would probably not have bought it without the great advice I got from here.
> 
> The Bike:
> 
> Frame: Hong Fu FM039 (56cm)
> 
> Wheels: Yishun Stefano 38mm clinchers
> 
> Groupset: Sram Rival
> 
> Weight: 7.2kgs (with pedals and garmin)
> 
> The Build:
> 
> I used Gore Ride on sealed cables which have worked flawlessly and without any rattles!
> 
> I managed to round off the saddle clamp bolt so I replaced it with the bontrager one which fits perfect and is better as it has an internal spring to open it up.
> 
> I cut the steerer tube myself with a fine tooth hacksaw blade which was nerve racking but went smoothly in the end. To test the strength of the carbon used for the steerer I took a big hammer to the off-cut...... I had to hit it very very hard several times to cause any damage at all after which it de-laminated but was still intact!..... Very reassuring.
> 
> The wheels have been bomb proof. They are the stand out part of the bike for me...Light strong true and fast...why pay thousands when you can have these?? The only minor critisism is the brake blocks provided although good in the dry were pretty poor in the rain.
> I have since replaced them with Zipp Platinums and yes they are expensive but they are also awesome in all conditions!! I have not had any issues at all with the braking surface getting hot either. Even on Mountain descents in 30c heat!
> 
> You may notice from the pictures that to finish it off I even had a custom head badge made to give it an identity."Dark side of the Moon"
> 
> All in all the build went smoothly.
> 
> The Ride:
> 
> I have ridden the bike in all conditions and I can honestly say it's fantastic. I have done over 3000 miles on countless training rides, many century sportives and loads of mountain climbs ( and obviously the descents!)
> 
> I have never ridden a "super bike" but to me the FM039 is fantastic in every way. It's fast light stiff and strong...The only fault I have if I'm forced to find one is that it's a tiny bit "twitchy" on the front end but only when riding with one hand.
> 
> Strength test:
> 
> Last week I had the pleasure of unintentionally giving the bike a thorough crash test!
> I was descending a very steep and fast section of single lane road and met a car coming the other way. Thankfully I somehow managed to miss the car but ended up slamming down HARD into 4 foot deep concrete and rock ditch!! As the driver of the car was worrying about my welfare all I could think was "Oh god no please don't let the bike be snapped in half!"
> To my amazement the only damage was a scratched and slightly out of true front wheel! Oh and the cut scratched and bruised left side of my body!
> 
> To sum up the bike is awesome and is my pride and joy.
> 
> Thank you to all those who have posted their stories and advice on building these bikes up as I'm sure you'd all agree it'd be a lot harder to do without this forum!


do you have problem on the seatpost on fm039? mine, the seat post was much smaller than the seat tube, it has gap for around 0.5mm and i had to over torque the screw caused the space in seat tube bended. I have to over torque because the seatpost keep slipping down.


----------



## Tompelan

kip.duff said:


> Guys:
> 
> I think someone else posted a possible fix somewhere earlier in this huge thread. Take aluminum beverage can and cut rectangular shim from smooth side area of it, and install between post and tube at place of your choice- I was thinking curving it into a U shape and putting between seat mast trailing edge and seat tube. Kinda like your electrical tape but hopefully a lot better.
> 
> If you could, let me know how goes, since I was ready to order an FM039. I thought the carbon paste would cure problem. BTW, when you refer to carbon paste do you mean then TACX stuff? Kip........................


doesn't really work on aluminium beverage can itself, i've tried it. What i'm gonna do is, smear the carbon paste on aluminium can and insert to seat tube and smear the carbon paste on the seat post and insert to seat post which has the coated aluminum can inside. I haven't tried it yet as i'm waiting for the carbon paste shipped to my home.

this fm039 seatpost has a gap around 0.5mm between the seat post and seat tube when it's inserted. kinda frustrating solving this problem until i broke the seat clamp because i've tried so many ways. the main problem is the space for tolerance in the seat tube, keep bended when i over torqued a little extra power.


----------



## Timbuctoo

Guys I've been reading through all threads and have been actively searching on eBay for Chinese carbon frames with effective TT of under 50cm. Has anybody had luck finding any XXS frames, my wife wants to get into cycling but doesn't want to spend heaps and I have a 105 groupset just collecting dust. She sat on a Specialized Dolce with a 49cm ETT and that was a great fit, it's hard with the extremes. Tim H


----------



## indrek

When I opened my skype in the morning there was a following message from Shirley (Miracle Trade):
"have left Miracle company,owing to they are cheat to every client, bad quality, long and long delivery time, and now I am not run with bicycle parts, as you know, many of my clients are email to me that miracle manager who is peter is also the boss sent email to all my clients to broken me. Peter is afraid me to tell my client they are bad company for cheating all clients' order. But I must say now, they are really a bad compay to cheat every clients. please see in the attached dialogue with my clients,it is they are aspirations. I am not like that peter want to broken others, I just want to remind all of my clients want to watch out for miracle ugly features. thanks for your attention."

I don't know is there any truth to that story, but I just had to share...

PS! I'm continuing having good business with Yishun & Dengfu.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

I think if you go back some pages, there are buyers of Miracle, who have not been given their fair share for their monies ...


----------



## manfredinator

*Flyxii*

Does anyone have the paypal address used with Flyxii? My initial request for a paypal address gave me flyxi_ltd_com(@)hotmail.com through email. I then asked for an invoice and the address is now manicsport(@)hotmail.com. Which one is correct if any?

Please also verify my contact with Flyxii. I have been emailing sales(@)flyxii.com but no name given, just signed best regards (no name). 

Maybe I am being paranoid but I am having a hard time pulling the trigger until I get a confirmation. TIA


----------



## Missbaksel

Hey there,

Ive found an interesting bike brand, Ritte Cycling do they use open mould frames?(Sorry I can't add links) The frames look quite familiar.

kind regards,

Martijn


----------



## davidof

*FM028 Unboxing Video*

Here is the Green Monster, delivered yesterday (the color is known as Applegarth Green, it is the color you go after you've realised that borrowing short and lending long is a seriously bad business plan, but that's another story)

I sent a sketch to DengFu who then sprayed up the frame. Communication with DengFu was GOOD and there are no obvious problems with the frame. Construction looks very clean internally. Packaging is excellent, no damage on arrival and the spare hanger, seat clamp and headset were all included. Cost around 450 euros.






So next question, what components? I'm generally pootle about in the mountains. So for *wheels* I was toying with Ultegra on Open Pros as they are a good solid wheel in variable conditions. I have a pair that are 15 years old and solid as a rock. I don't want hassles with weird spokes. But is there a factory wheel I should consider?

Components, I wanted to put SRAM Rival on it, but Rival is 600 euros in Yurope and you can get 105 for 400 so I think 105 it will be.


----------



## indrek

Is there a reason why are you guys still buying the FM028 with external cables? The one with internal routing (front and rear) has been released long time ago...


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

davidof said:


> Here is the Green Monster, delivered yesterday ... So next question, what components? I'm generally pootle about in the mountains. So for *wheels* I was toying with Ultegra on Open Pros ... Components, I wanted to put SRAM Rival on it, but Rival is 600 euros in Yurope and you can get 105 for 400 so I think 105 it will be.


btw ... nice looking frame ... reminds me of my old Kawasaki KR250 ... hmm



My mate rides with Open Pros and not a problem at all ...
Another rides with the 105s and they are a good workhorse ...

I was on the verge of getting a frame from them too until something else came up and I guess I will shelf my idea of riding a carbon frame till next the opportunity ...


----------



## davidof

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> btw ... nice looking frame ... reminds me of my old Kawasaki KR250 ... hmm
> 
> 
> 
> My mate rides with Open Pros and not a problem at all ...
> Another rides with the 105s and they are a good workhorse ...


yes that's what I'm thinking reliable and relatively inexpensive, I have campag on my old steel framed bike so don't need the bling factor


----------



## Teo

Timbuctoo said:


> Guys I've been reading through all threads and have been actively searching on eBay for Chinese carbon frames with effective TT of under 50cm. Has anybody had luck finding any XXS frames, my wife wants to get into cycling but doesn't want to spend heaps and I have a 105 groupset just collecting dust. She sat on a Specialized Dolce with a 49cm ETT and that was a great fit, it's hard with the extremes. Tim H


Greatkeen has a frame with a top tube just under 50. I have one. But I don't think they are on ebay. Check out their website.


----------



## williamcaulfield

Internal routing version was more expensive. Some people have issues with cable friction and had to buy gore ride on housings. Didn't seem worth it to me


----------



## rbart4506

Nice build...Like the tape job and the bars...I've got them in black, but just might have to switch to white...


----------



## Timbuctoo

Was that from Great Keen, I think this 50cm frame might be the one with the effective TT just under 50cm. How was the service using these guys? Nice build.


----------



## Crappymonkey

rucskus said:


> Hi... all
> here's my chinese made carbon bike, copy of pina dogma2.
> yes i know it's fake...but can climb like a goat.
> 
> Frameset........Chinese carbon made, pinarello dogma2 copy, size 50cm
> Groupo...........Full 105 black
> Wheels...........Chinese made 38mm carbon tubular
> Tire.................Tufo s33pro
> Saddle............Selle San Marco SKN
> Handlebar........FSA Wing pro, white
> Stem...............Zoom alum, 100mm, 7 deg Angle
> Bar tape..........Giant carbon silver


Looks nice but just be aware that once a mod sees the pictures they will be deleted because you're not allowed to post counterfeit bikes in the thread.ut:


----------



## manfredinator

Does anyone have the paypal address used with Flyxii? My initial request for a paypal address gave me flyxi_ltd_com(@)hotmail.com through email. I then asked for an invoice and the address is now manicsport(@)hotmail.com. Which one is correct if any?

Please also verify my contact with Flyxii. I have been emailing sales(@)flyxii.com but no name given, just signed best regards (no name). 

Maybe I am being paranoid but I am having a hard time pulling the trigger until I get a confirmation. TIA


----------



## Tswifty

Saw this guy riding at a ITT today


----------



## bucksnot

*2003 Fuji Team Pro Dura Ace Shifter & rear derailer, 105 front derailer $650??*

Fuji team pro bike, scandium frame, Carbon fork and drops. 
Dura Ace 7700 shifters, 9 speed. Dura Ace rear, 105 front. 
Velomax Accent wheels, very light. 
$650

The Rear derailer is 2003 and a 9 speed, but I have to option to take a 10 speed 105 rear 2007. 

1. Is this a good price?

2. Is the 10 speed 105 better than the 2003 9 speed dura ace rear derailer?


I'm currently on a starter '94 giant - exage components, downtube shifters and 32lbs. I'm ready for better!


----------



## rruff

bucksnot said:


> 2. Is the 10 speed 105 better than the 2003 9 speed dura ace rear derailer?


Dura Ace 7700 rear derailleurs are great... I have ~80k miles on one. Way better than 105.

If it is in good condition, then the price is ok... but everything must be checked out.


----------



## rucskus

Yes..my bad


----------



## Caje

Hi all,
Is there anyone who can give a brief summary on the chinese carbon topic overall. I know it's a bit difficult, but so is reading all the million replies ;-)
I thought about a few questions:
* Which are reliable sellers?
* Where can you find them on the internet?
* Possibilities to get the frames painted? Do they also come with some stickers?
* Average prices?
* Groupsets, do you also buy them in China?
* Are there already fully assembled carbon bikes?

Thanks already for replies to my first post...


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

indrek said:


> Is there a reason why are you guys still buying the FM028 with external cables? The one with internal routing (front and rear) has been released long time ago...


Personally I prefer a frame with external cables. Less housing, less area for the cable to rub on. Internal cable are known to tap on the frame, which is annoying but can be remedied, but you will not know until you have complete the build and are out on the road ... :mad2:

Some would say less weight but I think the weight you lose in terms of the lesser amount of housing is countered by the additional cable stops that you would need.



Caje said:


> ...
> I thought about a few questions:
> * Which are reliable sellers?
> * Where can you find them on the internet?
> * Possibilities to get the frames painted? Do they also come with some stickers?
> * Average prices?
> * Groupsets, do you also buy them in China?
> * Are there already fully assembled carbon bikes? ...


Careful there ... you will get an 'eyeful' from some forum users for not reading version 5.0 and then 6.0 ... 

I would avoid Miracle. I was going to buy from HongFu. Dengfu was ok too from what I heard but they did not reply to my emails and their website will always go down momentarily ...

E-hongfu-Bikes
give Jane an email ... [email protected]

Painted yes. Stickers yes too but for custom
... you will need to go elsewhere ... Stickers Design give Marco an email.

Prices ... different for different sellers ... Paypal fees and delivery charges differ slightly ... Dengfu cheaper slightly ...

Groupsets - No comment

Complete bikes? Maybe - check with seller (who will decide which component) - Building the whole bike yourself is the whole point is it not?

Did it help? I do not think so  ... So ... recommendation? ... read version 5.0 then 6.0 and you can decide for yourself ...


----------



## Bridgey

Don't forget Greatkeen as a reliable seller of Chinarello's, Chervelo's amongst others. GreatKeen Bike Sport Equipment Co.,Ltd
You can even get Chinarello decals vs Pinarello, etc.


----------



## racermech

Odd to see all these posts about Miracle being bad. I just got my frame from them and everything came 100% and without issue. Shipping was 1 week from payment to delivery, tracking number worked as well. I have not built the frame up yet, but the quality seems fine. Wheels drop right in, headset fits and post slides is nice and smooth. 

Hopefully everything else with the build goes smooth. If all goes well and I get my parts this week I will try to build it up next week.


----------



## Wadl

Bridgey said:


> Don't forget Greatkeen as a reliable seller of Chinarello's, Chervelo's amongst others. GreatKeen Bike Sport Equipment Co.,Ltd
> You can even get Chinarello decals vs Pinarello, etc.


Yeah, and previously, I asked about aliexpress about reliability. They are just reseller, and the pinarello (chinarello) they sell there are from greatkeen, so I think it is pretty reliable... well I know I will be ordering from them in a future not too distant, I will finally have my chinarello !!


----------



## MKO

You get same price even if you go direct to Greatkeen. Makes me wonder whether the resellers are actually just the employees from the manufacturers.


----------



## Go-zilla

MKO said:


> You get same price even if you go direct to Greatkeen. Makes me wonder whether the resellers are actually just the employees from the manufacturers.


Another possibility of what happens is the manufacturer has an agreement with the resellers, so the manufacturer cannot undercut them if they sell direct. Very much like if I want to bypass my LBS and make a phone call directly to Trek (for example), they don't even sell it to me directly or they will give me to the same msrp as the LBS would have given me.


----------



## Teo

Timbuctoo said:


> Was that from Great Keen, I think this 50cm frame might be the one with the effective TT just under 50cm. How was the service using these guys? Nice build.



I have the 50cm. I had a 52cm top tube Wilier before and my new frame definitely feels a little shorter.
Service was on par with all other Chinese manufacturers. Responses to email questions takes a about 1 to 2 days. Delivery time was 60 days, but I did ask for rebranding. Some of the guys that bought from my group buy got theirs in about 45 days. They were also good about remedying the seat post clamp issue I had.


----------



## Paul Barnard

I am considering doing a 1x9 build flat bar build. I have lots of good quality spare parts and I like the clean look of a single chainring up front. It's very flat here in New Orleans, so 9 speed is all that's needed. As it stands now I wouldn't have to buy much more than rims. So here are the few questions I have. I am looking for a frame that has rounded tubes rather than those with hard edges, has a fairly traditional appearance and has external cable routing. By traditional appearance, Something like an 08 Tarmac. I don't care for all the swoopiness that some of the frames have. Does such a frame exist? I am guessing from the specs I read that most of them will accept a good old fashioned square taper bottom bracket. Is this correct.

THX


----------



## Tompelan

andyhopey said:


> Never posted anything on here before but just finished my build. The frame was ordered from E-hongfu bikes FM039-ISP, very happy with the finished bike  The frame only took 3 weeks to get to me and Jen was very helpful.



very nice frame, I will post the photos of my FM 039 build when I reach 10 posts. By the way, do you have problem on the seatpost, mine keeps slipping down, i found out the gap between seat post and seat tube is about 0.5mm. When i over torqued to keep it steady, the spacer on the seat tube would be bended.


----------



## Bridgey

carbon grease or hairspray or a wedge using a coke can will do the trick to stop it slipping.


----------



## Tompelan

*My FM039 Build - Transformer 039*

After sometimes keep posting in this thread, I’ve finally reached 10posts, so I can post the photos of my FM039 build here. 

Thanks to this thread, (well 5.0 actually) so I decided to pull a trigger on ordering the FM-039 for myself after reading some reviews here. I bought it on November 2011 and finish built on December 2011, right on Christmas Day, but up until now I haven’t ridden it yet due to the seat post problem. It kept slipping down because the seat post diameter is much smaller than the seat tube diameter, the gap is about 0.5mm. When I over torque, the allowance space (whatever it called) on the seat tube was bended (see photo below)










Because of my busy days and the long holiday in China for CNY, I managed to contact hongfu about this issue on Feb 2012 and they did send me a new seat post on April 2012 but it didn’t help because the seat post is just exactly the same size with the one come with the frame.

I’ve been trying to find solution to read across this thread and post some questions here and thanks a lot guys, there are a lot of nice people here to answer my question about this issue. Up until I write this, I haven’t fixed the problem yet, as I broke the seat clamp few days ago and waiting for Hongfu to send me new seat clamps. I've tried the coke can as a shim, a thick aluminum foil sheet and carbon paste, it helps but it doesn't prevent the "allowance space" on the seat tube not being bended. After I receive the new seat clamp, I will put all those thing together and see if it is still bended or not. I will keep you updated guys.

My build is using Ultegra groupset, 3T handle bar and stem, specialized toupe saddle, 50mm clincher wheel with novatec hubs, schwalbe ultremo zx, jagwire cable and adjuster for shifter cable is needed. I called this bike Transformer 039 as I managed to get some 3D sticker of transformer logo. Btw, I have spent US$2400 for this bike and the weight is 7.5kgs.

Any questions regarding tips and trick of building this FM039, just drop me a PM, I will do my best to help you guys.


----------



## svard75

Tompelan said:


> After sometimes keep posting in this thread, I’ve finally reached 10posts, so I can post the photos of my FM039 build here.
> 
> Thanks to this thread, (well 5.0 actually) so I decided to pull a trigger on ordering the FM-039 for myself after reading some reviews here. I bought it on November 2011 and finish built on December 2011, right on Christmas Day, but up until now I haven’t ridden it yet due to the seat post problem. It kept slipping down because the seat post diameter is much smaller than the seat tube diameter, the gap is about 0.5mm. When I over torque, the allowance space (whatever it called) on the seat tube was bended (see photo below)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because of my busy days and the long holiday in China for CNY, I managed to contact hongfu about this issue on Feb 2012 and they did send me a new seat post on April 2012 but it didn’t help because the seat post is just exactly the same size with the one come with the frame.
> 
> I’ve been trying to find solution to read across this thread and post some questions here and thanks a lot guys, there are a lot of nice people here to answer my question about this issue. Up until I write this, I haven’t fixed the problem yet, as I broke the seat clamp few days ago and waiting for Hongfu to send me new seat clamps. I've tried the coke can as a shim, a thick aluminum foil sheet and carbon paste, it helps but it doesn't prevent the "allowance space" on the seat tube not being bended. After I receive the new seat clamp, I will put all those thing together and see if it is still bended or not. I will keep you updated guys.
> 
> My build is using Ultegra groupset, 3T handle bar and stem, specialized toupe saddle, 50mm clincher wheel with novatec hubs, schwalbe ultremo zx, jagwire cable and adjuster for shifter cable is needed. I called this bike Transformer 039 as I managed to get some 3D sticker of transformer logo. Btw, I have spent US$2400 for this bike and the weight is 7.5kgs.
> 
> Any questions regarding tips and trick of building this FM039, just drop me a PM, I will do my best to help you guys.


Very nice build! You need to redo the steerer. What i mean by that is the expander plug you put inside the steere needs to line up with the stem. With the 20mm spacer you have above its likely above the stem.

Have a read through this https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=specialized+carbon+fork+installation&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.specialized.com%2FOA_MEDIA%2Fpdf%2Fmanuals%2F08_Fork_Installation_Guide_r2.pdf&ei=1n_pT5HiGsSf6QGBu5WADQ&usg=AFQjCNHsVMI7FQmQpa74Ka9Iz9Mb7Hhs3g


----------



## Tompelan

svard75 said:


> Very nice build! You need to redo the steerer. What i mean by that is the expander plug you put inside the steere needs to line up with the stem. With the 20mm spacer you have above its likely above the stem.
> 
> Have a read through this http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=specialized+carbon+fork+installation&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.specialized.com%2FOA_MEDIA%2Fpdf%2Fmanuals%2F08_Fork_Installation_Guide_r2.pdf&ei=1n_pT5HiGsSf6QGBu5WADQ&usg=AFQjCNHsVMI7FQmQpa74Ka9Iz9Mb7Hhs3g


Got it... Thanks a lot.. I never realize this...:thumbsup:


----------



## Rainerhq

svard75 said:


> Very nice build! You need to redo the steerer. What i mean by that is the expander plug you put inside the steere needs to line up with the stem. With the 20mm spacer you have above its likely above the stem.
> 
> Have a read through this http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=specialized+carbon+fork+installation&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.specialized.com%2FOA_MEDIA%2Fpdf%2Fmanuals%2F08_Fork_Installation_Guide_r2.pdf&ei=1n_pT5HiGsSf6QGBu5WADQ&usg=AFQjCNHsVMI7FQmQpa74Ka9Iz9Mb7Hhs3g


Why in the world you quote all his pictures? You could quote for example this picture, where the spacers are shown.This thread is billion pages already.


----------



## Sailor

Hey guys,
I just broke a plastic bottle cage so I'm thinking of getting a set of carbon ones from ebay or an independent seller(great keen). Does anyone have experience with these? i.e. Will they break quickly? do they grip well?
Thanks in advance


----------



## Paul Barnard

Is there an EBay Direct ship equivalent of this bike? I like the external cable routing and more traditional lines.

Road Carbon Fiber framesets - 2013 Motobecane Le Champion Carbon


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

That is a very nice build ... pity about the seatpost as it needs to go out and be seen ... :thumbsup:


----------



## kimt

Hello. (my first post)

Im about to purcase a frame now, so tired of my old Nakamura. 

I was thinking to buy a FM039 frame from Hong Fu, but then i found all theese pre painted "chinarellos" and i really fell for the Moviestar paintjob. Any experience with these frames ?

I cant post links, but the sellers are on aliexpress.com 

1.speedy Li's store
2.Greatkeen Bike Sport equipment co.,LTD(aero seatpost)

The frames look identical, but speedy`s abit cheaper.


----------



## DarthRider

I am about ready to flip the switch on my first full build. Yup I am cheap and going Chinese CF. I love my APEX group set. I just have to decide between the Dengfu FM018 and the FM098. ( I did ask if they have a FM098 with Disc brakes but I doubt it) My current commute ride is a Gravity CXD with 2800 miles so far. (shooting for a 6K miles this year). I swapped the Shimano for the SRAM Apex and love it. my road bike is an old Miyata that I have pretty much worn out. I would love to hear from anyone that has a lot of rides on either or both the FM018 and the FM098.


----------



## 1805078

can someone give me the details for the Marco polo guy please


----------



## pietervdw

Paul Barnard said:


> Is there an EBay Direct ship equivalent of this bike? I like the external cable routing and more traditional lines.
> 
> Road Carbon Fiber framesets - 2013 Motobecane Le Champion Carbon


Have a look at the FM015 or FM066 from hong-fu


----------



## mrcreosote

1805078 said:


> can someone give me the details for the Marco polo guy please


Stickers Design


----------



## ptsbike55

> can someone give me the details for the Marco polo guy please


He does a great job, but it takes at least a month to get the decals once you order them,


----------



## kbfore

They are all over ebay. Well worth your money. It is the same stuff you buy in the stores without stickers. Just search "carbon bottle cage". There are tons of them.


----------



## wjclint

*Yoeleo*

I did search, and didn't see anything, but the website yoeleo dot com seems to be a bit easier to use than some of the descriptions of direct contacts, alibaba, etc. on this thread, and they accept PayPal. 

Does anyone know about them and have experience with ordering from them (are they legit)?


----------



## BikerNutz77

*Helin Liu Wheel Problems*

I've seen several posts from other regarding the Helin Liu wheel, so I'm hoping some of you see this or anyone else that's had a similar experience.

I purchased a set of 60mm UD Carbon dubs with DT Swiss Areo spokes, Novatec Hubs w/ Ceramic Bearings (all black). The wheels look great, ride great, and are fast. However....

I am having an awful time with the braking function. The two problems I have is that there is a pulsation in the front wheel and the brakes squeal very loudly.

My first inclination was to exchange the supplied Cork-type brake pads with Carbon-specific pads. I chose the Kool-Stop brand because of cost as I didn't want to shell out $40 a set if I didn't need to and I found the Kool-Stop's for $10/set. Initially the braking was better, but after about 5 miles, the squealing came back and the pulsation didn't go away either.

I contacted Helin Liu and he told me to sand down the brake surface. I was very skeptical as I didn't want to ruin the wheels. After talking with others and reconfirming with Helin, I bought some 1500 grit paper and begin the process. I decided only to do the front wheel and test before proceeding to the rear. I first cleaned the surface, very lightly performed a dry rub, then did a more robust wet sand. I did the entire surface evenly to try to counter the squealing issue, then marked the location where the brakes were grabbing the wheel during a free-spin and did a second sand. I then took the Kool-Stop pads off and cleaned the grooves and re-installed. One thing I notice though was that the pads were only making contact with the ends of the pad, not including the center section (i.e. the entire pad was not making contact). The pads have a slight curvature, so I guess that is normal until the ends wear down.

I put the wheel back on and took it for a test ride. The pulsation was slightly reduced, but the squeal came back. Does anyone have an idea of what could be causing this and how to possible cure it? I'm afraid there was defect in the manufacturing process that has created the pulsation.

Pic 1: Bike with new wheels installed
Pic 2: Before the sanding
Pic 3: Lightly dry sanded
Pic 4: Wet sand completed
Pic 5: Close-up after dry sand
Pic 6: Close-up after wet sand
Pic 7: Close-up before wet sanding area
Pic 8: Close-up of wet sand process
Pic 9: Close-up of wet sand completion


----------



## ptsbike55

BikerNutz77,
I don't think you can get a smooth surface by hand sanding. You might take your tire off and figure out how to get some sandpaper over the brake pads. Then by lightly squeezing the brakes while rotating the wheel, you would hit the high spot. I would think that would give you a much smoother finish and the best hope of getting rid of the pulsating.


----------



## BikerNutz77

ptsbike55 said:


> BikerNutz77,
> I don't think you can get a smooth surface by hand sanding. You might take your tire off and figure out how to get some sandpaper over the brake pads. Then by lightly squeezing the brakes while rotating the wheel, you would hit the high spot. I would think that would give you a much smoother finish and the best hope of getting rid of the pulsating.


Thanks. I thought about that too. I wanted to address the squealing problem first and figured I'd have to sand the whole rim anyway. By doing this first, it may address a little of the pulsation too. I'm just don't know how thick the coating is on the braking surface and didn't want to sand down more than necessary. I may taping a couple of small pieces on the pad now and see what happens. I've sent the photos to the manufacture to get their opinion.


----------



## Dadude

I just received my new Cross disc frame from Ican in UD Carbon.
I had really good conversations with Ican sports, before and after I ordered the frameset. They replied always fast.
And the frame looks awesome. The only thing that really sucks is, that the freakin' german custom put 48% anti dumping tariff + 4,7% normal tariff + 19% VAT on it 
But did I mention that I love the frame


----------



## Crappymonkey

Dadude said:


> freakin' german custom put 48% anti dumping tariff + 4,7% normal tariff + 19% VAT on it



:yikes: :yikes: :yikes:


----------



## kanekikapu

BikerNutz77,

Have you tried toeing in your pads? I've got a set of 24mm Helin tubs with Swissstop pads and they squeals. I toe in my front pads very slightly and problem solved.


----------



## orlin03

ptsbike55 said:


> BikerNutz77,
> I don't think you can get a smooth surface by hand sanding. You might take your tire off and figure out how to get some sandpaper over the brake pads. Then by lightly squeezing the brakes while rotating the wheel, you would hit the high spot. I would think that would give you a much smoother finish and the best hope of getting rid of the pulsating.


I think this method could help:

I just built a single speed bike for a friend, and recieved painted over "fixie wheels" instead of the ordered "single speed wheels" with machined brake surfaces. I mounted the bike on a trainer with light pressure, and spun a Dremel sanding bit against the surface. I let the wheel start spinning, then, using a rag and hand pressure, I'd slow the wheel to a controlled spin while removing paint and eventually sanding the rim. These rims were aluminum, so I used a rough paper on the bit; you'd want a fine cover for carbon. It resulted in some of the smoothest braking I've ever felt, even taking care of the welded seam. Initially, I was going to try the exact method you suggested, but I think this was much more controlled.


----------



## tunedis95

Well ya made me do it too. Pulled the trigger. Went through eBay Seller:*a_baygoods and took 8 days to get to my house in Houston, TX.

This is going to be a tt frame with 1pc carbon road bars

Frame is Full Carbon 3K Triathlon Time Trial TT Bike Frame 52cm Fork Seatpost - FR105

I'll have actual weights later. Frame did have two small scuffs and the deraileur was poking out the box but it did have a plastic protector on it. Scuffs om sure I can buff out. Overall it was in great shape and seat post and fork installed with no problems

I just ordered a 2012 SRAM force Groupset and will have more pix later


----------



## tunedis95

Oh yea. Price was 539 us dollars shipped


----------



## Tswifty

tunedis95 said:


> Well ya made me do it too. Pulled the trigger. Went through eBay Seller:*a_baygoods and took 8 days to get to my house in Houston, TX.
> 
> This is going to be a tt frame with 1pc carbon road bars
> 
> Frame is Full Carbon 3K Triathlon Time Trial TT Bike Frame 52cm Fork Seatpost - FR105
> 
> I'll have actual weights later. Frame did have two small scuffs and the deraileur was poking out the box but it did have a plastic protector on it. Scuffs om sure I can buff out. Overall it was in great shape and seat post and fork installed with no problems
> 
> I just ordered a 2012 SRAM force Groupset and will have more pix later


Interesting choice making a TT bike a road bike...i am intrigued to see how this turns out. Would love a after shot with you on the bike so we can see the position.


----------



## svard75

tunedis95 said:


> Well ya made me do it too. Pulled the trigger. Went through eBay Seller:*a_baygoods and took 8 days to get to my house in Houston, TX.
> 
> This is going to be a tt frame with 1pc carbon road bars
> 
> Frame is Full Carbon 3K Triathlon Time Trial TT Bike Frame 52cm Fork Seatpost - FR105
> 
> I'll have actual weights later. Frame did have two small scuffs and the deraileur was poking out the box but it did have a plastic protector on it. Scuffs om sure I can buff out. Overall it was in great shape and seat post and fork installed with no problems
> 
> I just ordered a 2012 SRAM force Groupset and will have more pix later


Looking good. Although it looks like a TT bike the rear brake mount is not in the right spot. TT are supposed to have the rear brake at the Bottom hear the BB. Do you have a mount down there?


----------



## svard75

BikerNutz77 said:


> I've seen several posts from other regarding the Helin Liu wheel, so I'm hoping some of you see this or anyone else that's had a similar experience.
> 
> I purchased a set of 60mm UD Carbon dubs with DT Swiss Areo spokes, Novatec Hubs w/ Ceramic Bearings (all black). The wheels look great, ride great, and are fast. However....
> 
> I am having an awful time with the braking function. The two problems I have is that there is a pulsation in the front wheel and the brakes squeal very loudly.
> 
> My first inclination was to exchange the supplied Cork-type brake pads with Carbon-specific pads. I chose the Kool-Stop brand because of cost as I didn't want to shell out $40 a set if I didn't need to and I found the Kool-Stop's for $10/set. Initially the braking was better, but after about 5 miles, the squealing came back and the pulsation didn't go away either.
> 
> I contacted Helin Liu and he told me to sand down the brake surface. I was very skeptical as I didn't want to ruin the wheels. After talking with others and reconfirming with Helin, I bought some 1500 grit paper and begin the process. I decided only to do the front wheel and test before proceeding to the rear. I first cleaned the surface, very lightly performed a dry rub, then did a more robust wet sand. I did the entire surface evenly to try to counter the squealing issue, then marked the location where the brakes were grabbing the wheel during a free-spin and did a second sand. I then took the Kool-Stop pads off and cleaned the grooves and re-installed. One thing I notice though was that the pads were only making contact with the ends of the pad, not including the center section (i.e. the entire pad was not making contact). The pads have a slight curvature, so I guess that is normal until the ends wear down.
> 
> I put the wheel back on and took it for a test ride. The pulsation was slightly reduced, but the squeal came back. Does anyone have an idea of what could be causing this and how to possible cure it? I'm afraid there was defect in the manufacturing process that has created the pulsation.
> 
> Pic 1: Bike with new wheels installed
> Pic 2: Before the sanding
> Pic 3: Lightly dry sanded
> Pic 4: Wet sand completed
> Pic 5: Close-up after dry sand
> Pic 6: Close-up after wet sand
> Pic 7: Close-up before wet sanding area
> Pic 8: Close-up of wet sand process
> Pic 9: Close-up of wet sand completion


Great looking setup there. Sorry to hear the rims are a problem. I wouldn't sand anything down from the brake track, you're removing valuable material. As for the pulsation you can work on just that area but my feeling is it could be inconsistencies in the actual weave joint. You keep taking the resin off that area and this could be the point of failure if I'm right. It's really too bad because they make the bike look great. I would look at replacing the rims. You can buy just 60mm rims from ebay and have them re-laced.


----------



## k24a2

BikerNutz77 said:


> I've seen several posts from other regarding the Helin Liu wheel, so I'm hoping some of you see this or anyone else that's had a similar experience.
> 
> I purchased a set of 60mm UD Carbon dubs with DT Swiss Areo spokes, Novatec Hubs w/ Ceramic Bearings (all black). The wheels look great, ride great, and are fast. However....
> 
> I am having an awful time with the braking function. The two problems I have is that there is a pulsation in the front wheel and the brakes squeal very loudly.
> 
> My first inclination was to exchange the supplied Cork-type brake pads with Carbon-specific pads. I chose the Kool-Stop brand because of cost as I didn't want to shell out $40 a set if I didn't need to and I found the Kool-Stop's for $10/set. Initially the braking was better, but after about 5 miles, the squealing came back and the pulsation didn't go away either.
> 
> I contacted Helin Liu and he told me to sand down the brake surface. I was very skeptical as I didn't want to ruin the wheels. After talking with others and reconfirming with Helin, I bought some 1500 grit paper and begin the process. I decided only to do the front wheel and test before proceeding to the rear. I first cleaned the surface, very lightly performed a dry rub, then did a more robust wet sand. I did the entire surface evenly to try to counter the squealing issue, then marked the location where the brakes were grabbing the wheel during a free-spin and did a second sand. I then took the Kool-Stop pads off and cleaned the grooves and re-installed. One thing I notice though was that the pads were only making contact with the ends of the pad, not including the center section (i.e. the entire pad was not making contact). The pads have a slight curvature, so I guess that is normal until the ends wear down.
> 
> I put the wheel back on and took it for a test ride. The pulsation was slightly reduced, but the squeal came back. Does anyone have an idea of what could be causing this and how to possible cure it? I'm afraid there was defect in the manufacturing process that has created the pulsation.
> 
> Pic 1: Bike with new wheels installed
> Pic 2: Before the sanding
> Pic 3: Lightly dry sanded
> Pic 4: Wet sand completed
> Pic 5: Close-up after dry sand
> Pic 6: Close-up after wet sand
> Pic 7: Close-up before wet sanding area
> Pic 8: Close-up of wet sand process
> Pic 9: Close-up of wet sand completion



BikerNutz:

I have the same 60mm UD wheelset from Helin. I had the same problem with the squealing initially, but when i toe in the pad the and the squealing stop... I am using DA Carbon Pad...It grabs pretty hard... 

I do have a very slight pulsing. (if i really pay attention)...


----------



## Jayzzzzz

Thought i should contribute to this forum by sharing my purchase experience so far, since it helped me tonnes in buying my first CC frame.

after much research, finally ordered a FM015 NON ISP 3KMATTE SIZE 51 + 1 head set + bottle cage via Hong-fu.

here is the process:
07/7 enquired Hongfu about the product
07/08 got a respond saying BB30 will have to wait for 30 days, but has the BSA in stock, total price of $550US (include shipping + paypal fee)
07/8 enquired dengfu about product.. never got an respond.
(did more research)

07/19 enquired and got a pic of the matte finish product the next day from jenny @ hongfu
(exchanged several emails with more question, jenny is very responsive, and usually respond with 12 hrs)
07/20 added another FK056 fork for my workmate (was told that it will take a week for it to be painted)
07/21 finalised order and paid
07/25 was told item will be shipped on that day.
07/27 kept requesting a tracking number and was give the number after 3 emails 
(tried to track the parcel, but the tracking number was not recorded in the EMS website)
07/28 emailed Jenny saying the tracking number doesn't work, and got a respond in 9 hrs saying she has called EMS and the tracking should be in the system by the next day.

So far the communication is 9/10... her english is understandable, most important of all she's quick and responsive. Dont really know what happened to my msg to dengfu.

Hoping the frame will arrive next week, I am a newbie in building/riding.. but i enjoy the process and thought the best way to learn it is to build it... gonna invest in a toolkit box and a workstand.. worse come to worst i will bring it to the LBS.... 

looking at building the bike with campy centaur groupset and fulcum racing 7 wheelsets. have anyone built one with a campy set? i have my shopping list and its currently sitting at around $1500AU... pretty reasonable i would say.

seems like many here likes to use SRAM rival+red... is it a personal thing? or a compatible issue?


----------



## Sailor

tunedis95 said:


> Well ya made me do it too. Pulled the trigger. Went through eBay Seller:*a_baygoods and took 8 days to get to my house in Houston, TX.
> 
> This is going to be a tt frame with 1pc carbon road bars
> 
> Frame is Full Carbon 3K Triathlon Time Trial TT Bike Frame 52cm Fork Seatpost - FR105
> 
> I'll have actual weights later. Frame did have two small scuffs and the deraileur was poking out the box but it did have a plastic protector on it. Scuffs om sure I can buff out. Overall it was in great shape and seat post and fork installed with no problems
> 
> I just ordered a 2012 SRAM force Groupset and will have more pix later


I considered doing the same thing at one point but eventually forgot about it. Tell us if the geometry works out or if you need a longer stem/different seat. Good luck!


----------



## Go-zilla

Tompelan said:


> My build is using Ultegra groupset, 3T handle bar and stem, specialized toupe saddle, 50mm clincher wheel with novatec hubs, schwalbe ultremo zx, jagwire cable and adjuster for shifter cable is needed. I called this bike Transformer 039 as I managed to get some 3D sticker of transformer logo. Btw, I have spent US$2400 for this bike and the weight is 7.5kgs.
> ]


Wow nice! Not only your bike, I am impressed with how clean & nice your floor & walls are.


----------



## mcocky2001

Is this the Carbon Frame (RFM102) from Greatkeen? If so, how does it ride? How long did it take to arrive?
Was there any issues with the purchase?


----------



## ptsbike55

> Wow nice! Not only your bike, I am impressed with how clean & nice your floor & walls are.


I thought we were only supposed to post pictures of our bikes with them leaning against the garage door.


----------



## mcocky2001

nagge said:


> Just did my first ride outside on my chinese bike, I've had it built and ready for about a month now but it wasn't until today that the snow had melted away and let me have a test ride. It all went very well and no problems at all, will take it on a longer ride tomorrow.
> 
> A pic just before we went out
> 
> 
> 
> Is this the Carbon Frame (RFM102) from Greatkeen? How does it ride? How long did it take to arrive?


----------



## mcocky2001

Has anyone purchase the Carbon Frame (RFM102) from Greatkeen?


----------



## Rick Draper

svard75 said:


> Looking good. Although it looks like a TT bike the rear brake mount is not in the right spot. TT are supposed to have the rear brake at the Bottom hear the BB. Do you have a mount down there?


TT bikes have the brakes in various positions. Take Cervelo P3's they are in the same position as in the photos. They don't have to have the brake in any particular position


----------



## tunedis95

Yea. I opted for this frame because if the rear brake mounting. Lots of people were having issues with breaking power at speeds because of the mounting. Didn't feel like having issues


----------



## Dadude

Crappymonkey said:


> :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:


that's what I thought


----------



## Black37

Do you mind doing a quick write up about the build process on your Ican CX bike? I have been looking at this frame. 
- What did you pay for the frame?
- Who did your decals?
- what brakes/rotors did you go with? How do they feel so far?
- etc....

Thanks!


----------



## medialab

Can't wait to see final build, looks nice


----------



## Dadude

Additional Information:
I contacted Janice from Ican several times and she always answered my questions.cassette.
I then pulled the trigger for the 2012 Disc frame in UD Carbon and BSA, The price for the frame set is 390$ + a little (I think 15$) for the headset + 90$ for shipping
The frame arrived at customs ofGermany 2 days after it was shipped and two more days later I received it.

The decals are from Marco Pollo from Brazil (designstickers.blogspot.co.uk)
Brakes are Avid BB7 which I know from previous bikes. I prefere Windcutter disc in combination with them,
I own several wheelsets and use mostly FMB tires, because I think they are even slightly better than Dugast.
I build the bike up with S-works carbon handlebar, 3t arx stem and Ultegra 6700 components + DuraAce7800 chain and .
I will install a shimano cx70 as front derailleur.
The crank will be Rotor 3d with Power2max power measurement,

If you have any other questions, jus ask


----------



## Black37

Beautiful!

2 more questions:

-What was the model # for this frame?
-What is the spacing for the rear wheel? 135mm? Can you run a mountain bike rear wheel with this frame?


----------



## maxxevv

Dadude said:


> My new 2012 Cyclocross Disc from Ican Sports
> 
> I am not yet quite done building it up, as I am still missing some parts.


I do not see it in the picts, but the BB7 road tends to have too soft a return spring on them, so they will need an inline cable adjuster further up front between the handlebar and the top-tube for the rear brakes.


----------



## Dadude

maxxevv said:


> I do not see it in the picts, but the BB7 road tends to have too soft a return spring on them, so they will need an inline cable adjuster further up front between the handlebar and the top-tube for the rear brakes.


Never had a Problem with the bb7 and therefore won't install a cable adjuster.


----------



## Code

Having read through both 5.0 and 6.0 what I can see is the nicest frames are

FM039 and FM066

FM015 is popular though quiet ordinary looking.

Dengfu is most popular supplier, Flyxii is the cheapest though it has none of the above frames.

Mircale should be avoided due to poor service.

My only question is what frame is best to use for a bike for climbing?


----------



## stijn_b

These threads are very informative. I recently bought a clean matt blackPinarello copy, the latest version that the online frame dealers offer, with integrated cable routing.

I already got my group set etc. Only awaiting the frame now . Then I'll order some decals from the brazilian guy that has been mentioned before.

Concerning my build I have an important question. I have heard that some of the latest branded carbon models don't need a crown race as it is integrated into the fork.

Does the Pinarello dogma copy need a crown race? I'm talking about the dogma version that is advertised as the 2012 model . All cable routing is internal.

Thanks!


----------



## alex1rob

What do we think about this one?


----------



## abx400

*Nashbar Carbon = buyers remorse*

hello, i'm new here, and trying to post in the chinese carbon frames discussion. if i haven't properly navigated this maze and accomplished that for whatever reason please just move along instead of tearing me a new one. thanks in advance.
-------------------
just got the nashbar CR for $880 on their last sale
( won't let me post link, but i think you know the one )
took a quick ride, liked it, had my LBS put on the 105 shifters I'd also gotten from nashbar and give a tweak / tune. then i took a 20 miler and realized i hate this bike. do i need to put the old shifters back on and send this thing back and get something with a decent ring set / cassette, etc, or just get a new bike mechanic?
- some rear shifts are fast and smooth, most take a while, some don't go at all
- shifting under torque sometimes get a half freaking revolution of slip
- rattling and clattering, chain making a racket on bumps (doesn't look loose)
- cranks and hub squeaking and complaining like the thing is 50 years old
- always wanting a front derailleur half shift, on my old trek w ultegra / 105 sure you'd have to half shift if you were way up on the cassette, but not just a gear or two from center
- i was really looking forward to the 3 to 2 rings to spend less time with the front derailleur but the way it's geared, to go quickly from stopped to 20 mph you have to use both rings. i could do that quickly all on the 2nd ring w the old trek, and save the 1 & 3 rings for hills.
-maybe i just need a good mechanic and to get used to the change, or maybe i bought a bunch of crap parts that will never shift like my dear old ultegra rear shifter once did many miles ago, or rival butter for smoothness. 
again, for you mean ones, i'm really truly sorry i don't know everything about bikes if i did or wrote something dumb, i just like to ride fast (for me) and want quick smooth shifts. for you patient ones, thoughts?


----------



## Tswifty

alex1rob said:


> What do we think about this one?


Looks like the FM069 that Dengfu offer at which point i think it looks HOT! Would rather that then a FM018  shame about the price though.


----------



## pietervdw

alex1rob said:


> what do we think about this one?


this is awesome!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## beston

abx400,

This sounds like a poor installation issue. You should be able to achieve excellent shifting with 105 components.


----------



## mfuchs

Let me get this straight, if I buy a bike painted like a Pinarello I can't post pictures of it on this site but if I buy a plain black bike that looks like a Pinarello and I put Pinarello stickers all over it and post the before and after pictures of it then that's ok, right? Just sayin...


----------



## Coolhand

*moderators note*



mfuchs said:


> Let me get this straight, if I buy a bike painted like a Pinarello I can't post pictures of it on this site but if I buy a plain black bike that looks like a Pinarello and I put Pinarello stickers all over it and post the before and after pictures of it then that's ok, right? Just sayin...


No, its very very simple- no counterfeits. Either will be taken down if I see them. Thanks for your understanding on this.


----------



## stijn_b

These threads are very informative. I recently bought a clean matt blackPinarello copy, the latest version that the online frame dealers offer, with integrated cable routing.

I already got my group set etc. Only awaiting the frame now . Then I'll order some decals from the brazilian guy that has been mentioned before.

Concerning my build I have an important question. I have heard that some of the latest branded carbon models don't need a crown race as it is integrated into the fork.

Does the Pinarello dogma copy need a crown race? I'm talking about the dogma version that is advertised as the 2012 model . All cable routing is internal.


----------



## Crappymonkey

mfuchs said:


> Let me get this straight, if I buy a bike painted like a Pinarello I can't post pictures of it on this site but if I buy a plain black bike that looks like a Pinarello and I put Pinarello stickers all over it and post the before and after pictures of it then that's ok, right? Just sayin...


You can post a picture of the bike before you plaster it with fake Pinarello stickers. Why put the fake decals on anyways?


----------



## PlatyPius

Dadude said:


> Never had a Problem with the bb7 and therefore won't install a cable adjuster.


I've never had any kind of issue with any road BB7 brakes that I've installed. Nor has anyone I've ever talked to. Nor is it any kind of known issue. I believe someone is talking out their arse.


----------



## mfuchs

Crappymonkey said:


> You can post a picture of the bike before you plaster it with fake Pinarello stickers. Why put the fake decals on anyways?



Coolhand knows what I was talking about and it has been dealt with. BTW it wasn't a (fake) Pinarello.


----------



## Dadude

Black37 said:


> Beautiful!
> 
> 2 more questions:
> 
> -What was the model # for this frame?
> -What is the spacing for the rear wheel? 135mm? Can you run a mountain bike rear wheel with this frame?


The Ican Sports Disc Frame is think called SP-AC24. It is the 2012 model and they recently released their new 2013 model, which is DI ready.
Anyway look at the data in the following picture. I also attached only pictures without decals, so it doesn't get deleted again


----------



## rokh

Hello,

I'm new here. I decided to buy a new chinese carbon frameset, but I need some help before deciding wich one to order.

My 2 top candidates are fr-315 frameset on ebay and the fame cervelo s3 on aliexpress. 
What i would like to know is are them any good, what are the common problems with them? Is the cervelo replica available without decals/paintjob on ebay, and if yes what is the set name, or the seller?
If these sets are not good, which one would you recommend?

PS. sorry if these questions were already asked, i went through through the thread but didnt find the info what I'm looking for. Also sorry for my english...


----------



## BikerNutz77

Thanks K24a2, I'll give that a try. I noticed the pads are currently wearing on both the two ends, which may be why it is squealing. The pad is vibrating on the surface. I'll toe it in and see what happens.

On another note, I note, I have grease leaking out of the hub now. It has a slight wobble to it when I spin the spindle, which tells me the seal was not seated correctly when it was installed.

I thought about sending these back for replacements and have Helin's agreement to do this, however it is going to cost me between $150 - $200 to ship them back to China. That's 1/3 - 1/2 of the cost of the wheels. I might as well try to get it corrected on my own. Lesson learned - you get what you pay for and start buying from within the US.


----------



## ptsbike55

> On another note, I note, I have grease leaking out of the hub now. It has a slight wobble to it when I spin the spindle, which tells me the seal was not seated correctly when it was installed.


Those should be standard bearings that are readily available. I can't imagine there being enough grease in those to be "leaking". I would take them apart and see what is happening before I paid $150 to send them back.


----------



## Seneb

svard75 said:


> Looking good. Although it looks like a TT bike the rear brake mount is not in the right spot. TT are supposed to have the rear brake at the Bottom hear the BB. Do you have a mount down there?


TT bikes are defined by geometry, not brake location or even tube shaping.


----------



## Crappymonkey

rokh said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm new here. I decided to buy a new chinese carbon frameset, but I need some help before deciding wich one to order.
> 
> My 2 top candidates are fr-315 frameset on ebay and the fame cervelo s3 on aliexpress.
> What i would like to know is are them any good, what are the common problems with them? Is the cervelo replica available without decals/paintjob on ebay, and if yes what is the set name, or the seller?
> If these sets are not good, which one would you recommend?
> 
> PS. sorry if these questions were already asked, i went through through the thread but didnt find the info what I'm looking for. Also sorry for my english...


The Fr-315 is available from Flyxii and the Cervelo style frame is available unpainted from Bike Ican as the SP-AC031. Those are also my favorite looking frames at the moment.


----------



## BikerNutz77

ptsbike55 said:


> Those should be standard bearings that are readily available. I can't imagine there being enough grease in those to be "leaking". I would take them apart and see what is happening before I paid $150 to send them back.


I have the Novatec hubs and Ceramic Bearings. I took the wheels in this morning my LBS. Mechanic initially thinks the O-ring / seal between the hub and the spindle is bad. The grease around the paws is what is coming through, not the bearing grease. Hopefully he is right. I'm getting the spokes checked too as one was starting to turn.

I love how smooth the rims feel on the road - soaking up the minor cracks in the pavement. They spin-up fast and climb surprisingly well. I just need to feel confident that I can stop when needed.


----------



## zender

Tswifty said:


> Looks like the FM069 that Dengfu offer at which point i think it looks HOT! Would rather that then a FM018  shame about the price though.


I'm really curious how the FM069 will shake out. 

As evidenced by 6 threads of posts here, many of us are/were willing to take a chance for about 500 bucks. But, this one, at over a grand, is encroaching on the cost of a reasonable used TT frame from a known brand. The other problem is the rear brake on the FM018 has always been an issue, and someone is going to have to be the guinea pig on the FM069 to tell us whether the integrated front and rear brakes work on not. It does look sexy though! :thumbsup:


----------



## ms6073

zender said:


> I'm really curious how the FM069 will shake out.


Interesting to note that from the image under discussion, the frame does not include the brakes yet the product description on the Dengfu site would indicate the brakes ( cantilever v-brakes?) are proprietary to that model frameset. On a somewhat related note, based on my current order for two FM059 disc cyclocross framesets, The manufacturer that supplies Dengfu appears to be somewhat back logged as I was originally quoted an early July ship date but am now being told that the frames in size 56 'just pass the test and begin to mass produce,so it needs waiting for more 45-60days'.


----------



## jackmen

nice looking bike


----------



## flyrunride

Nice... with all the direction or maybe fad going to "aero" I also thought about using tri frame into a roadie. I hope you can update us with the sizing, fit, development and price of your project. It is looking good.


----------



## mrcreosote

ms6073 said:


> Interesting to note that from the image under discussion, the frame does not include the brakes yet the product description on the Dengfu site would indicate the brakes ( cantilever v-brakes?) are proprietary to that model frameset.


They are TRP TTV brakes

TRP


----------



## RoadFox

ms6073 said:


> Maybe this is due to the site being relatively new but that just screams scam. A quick trip around the site and in the store I see no product descriptions, geometry charts, nada.Furthermore, clicking on a button to add an item to the shopping cart does take you direclty via secure link to PayPal and the Contact Information does not list a street address, only Palmer, MA.


What did you want to know.... RoadFox was established by myself in November last year and if you had taken the time to read the information on the site you would have read that I started the business with a view of helping the cycling youth of today afford Carbon goods but at a cost that the parents can afford. Its not the best top equipment... its not suppose to be, if you want that then go to your local bike store and buy a Cervelo or similar. I offer carbon goods that can be painted to customers requirements. Send me an email if you want my address, but unless you plan on cutting my grass i don't see a point in giving out that info.... I am not a store with a window. 

Hope this helps.

Andy:thumbsup:


----------



## RoadFox

Syncmaster said:


> Someone has just setup shop in Massachusetts selling these frames (and carbon wheels) under the name Roadfox. Anyone recognize the mold?
> https://www.roadfoxbicycles.com/bikes.html


I recognize it as one of my own.... what would you like to know?

Btw... we do have a feedback button on the website if you have any questions.

:thumbsup:

Andy


----------



## svard75

*High Speed wobble.*

Hi Guys, has anyone here felt a wobble at high speeds (60+kph)? I have an FM015.


----------



## svard75

Seneb said:


> TT bikes are defined by geometry, not brake location or even tube shaping.


Agreed and withdraw my previous comment. I have since seen plenty of TT bikes with the brake up top. I'm a newb, can you tell?


----------



## rbart4506

RoadFox said:


> What did you want to know.... RoadFox was established by myself in November last year and if you had taken the time to read the information on the site you would have read that I started the business with a view of helping the cycling youth of today afford Carbon goods but at a cost that the parents can afford. Its not the best top equipment... its not suppose to be, if you want that then go to your local bike store and buy a Cervelo or similar. I offer carbon goods that can be painted to customers requirements. Send me an email if you want my address, but unless you plan on cutting my grass i don't see a point in giving out that info.... I am not a store with a window.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Andy:thumbsup:


Andy,

Exactly what the guy running my team is doing...

And would add that the product is just as good as the Cervelo/Specialized type product...

I myself am on a re-badged FM028, formerly on a 2010 Specialized Tarmac Expert, and I can say without a doubt that the new frame ride just as well if not better then the Tarmac...My wife also made the switch a few weeks ago and she concurs fully...

You do not need to spend the big bucks to have a great performing bike. The only reason is if you are looking for the bling factor or the supposed latest and greatest...

Sorry. but I'll stick with the affordable approach 

Rich


----------



## ms6073

RoadFox said:


> if you had taken the time to read the information on the site you would have read that I started the business...


And the efforts are appreciated, especially for taking the time to reply back. My comments are based on the observation that your site seems lacking in basics that would help customers to make an informed purchasing decision. While your product info page and product descriptions for your wheels is nice, there are also listings for frames yet no where is there any product descriptions which include basic things like fork taper, bottom bracket standards, or geometry charts/diagrams.


----------



## MilanoRex

Seeing all of these beautiful builds motivated me to order a FM015! It's already on its way, so are the other parts I've ordered. Can't wait!


----------



## Farby

is there a page somewhere that gives a breakdown of what each frame is the brand name equivalent of? FM015= Trek, Cervelo, Specialized??? etc....


----------



## zender

mrcreosote said:


> They are TRP TTV brakes
> 
> TRP


Well, thats promising. If the frame has canti bosses front and rear, you could have a number of options. I had some XTR V-brakes, the last generation before everything went hydraulic disc, and they were just amazing. Not sure they would fit on that frame, of course, but that'd be more braking power than you'd ever need in a TT/Tri.


----------



## pietervdw

Learned a valuable lesson with my second bundled FM02 order via eBay.

* Firstly e_baygoods aka flyxii is now a_baygoods
* The standard shipping on eBay is quoted as $80. The first time I ordered I didn't request any specific shipping so it took 8weeks to get to South Africa with a ship....
This time around I requested shipping with EMS and it was delivered to my door in 10days

As a side note; bought these parts to replace my old faithful alu bike and am well pleased with the quality and comfort. Will post build pics ASAP


----------



## mrcreosote

zender said:


> Well, thats promising. If the frame has canti bosses front and rear, you could have a number of options. I had some XTR V-brakes, the last generation before everything went hydraulic disc, and they were just amazing. Not sure they would fit on that frame, of course, but that'd be more braking power than you'd ever need in a TT/Tri.


Except I think you would have trouble finding brake levers that would pull enough cable. MTB V-Brakes had longer arms, for greater mechanical advantage, but needed 'long-pull' levers to match. Most road/TT levers are short-pull. You need V-Brakes that are designed for short-pull levers (as I expect the TRP brakes are)


----------



## kbfore

Farby said:


> is there a page somewhere that gives a breakdown of what each frame is the brand name equivalent of? FM015= Trek, Cervelo, Specialized??? etc....


This blog has a few http://chinarello.wordpress.com/


----------



## JasonDT

Crappymonkey said:


> The Fr-315 is available from Flyxii and the Cervelo style frame is available unpainted from Bike Ican as the SP-AC031. Those are also my favorite looking frames at the moment.


I've been building up an FR-106 from FlyXii and it's been far from simple. I had real issues with the carbon steerer, not so much fitting the crown race, but fitting a stem. The tolerances were very tight to say the least. Got around it by using slightly larger spacers and reversing the bolts in the stem with a shim in the expansion gap to open out the clamp slightly so it could be fitted. Also had problems with the saddle clamp on the seatpost, which needed sanding and new bolts so it could be adjusted, the seatpost clamp which needed shimming, sanding of excess clearcoat on one fork dropout so the wheel would fit, not to mention finding the correct brakes (2 rear Campagnolo lateral pull brakes did the trick). I'll hopefully put together a full build report at some point, just so nobody else has to suffer like I did.

Having said all the above, it has been a labour of love, the frame does look good, and I'll hopefully be riding it in anger this weekend, if no other problems crop up (I've just cursed it now, haven't I!)


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

Tswifty said:


> Looks like the FM069 that Dengfu offer at which point i think it looks HOT! Would rather that then a FM018  shame about the price though.


And what is the price of this TT bike?


----------



## RoadFox

ms6073 said:


> And the efforts are appreciated, especially for taking the time to reply back. My comments are based on the observation that your site seems lacking in basics that would help customers to make an informed purchasing decision. While your product info page and product descriptions for your wheels is nice, there are also listings for frames yet no where is there any product descriptions which include basic things like fork taper, bottom bracket standards, or geometry charts/diagrams.


Try looking at the page that shows the complete bikes. All the Geometry is there. I'm still working on the site and keeping it up to date with customers photos and latest news and then finding time for building bikes and wheels is pretty time consuming. Although I started the business back in November last year I have only just created the site... its 90% done so I apologize if everything is not there or in the right place. Believe me, I make better wheels and bikes than I do websites...lol


----------



## RoadFox

Rich, 

I 100% agree.. I myself rode a Cervelo S3 for a few years then when my son wanted to start racing I looked at cost. Not knowing if my son would take to the sport I was not about to spend huge bucks on a 'named brand'. After I built a bike for him I soon realized that there was bound to be others out there that didn't have the skill and knowledge of building so decided to offer these services. I then invested in a paint booth and now offer custom paint jobs... 
Just working on a customers TT frame that is painted in a deep candy apple red... three different paint colors and it changes colors when the light hits it. I have a local Decal company make my decals and there we have it. My frames are offered custom paint for just $950... I really think I earn that money. 
I can now buy groupsets from wholesale and fit these pretty much at my cost. I ship out around 12 pairs of wheels a week and build around 2 to 3 bikes every month. I've had zero complaints so far and everyone sees the benefits of carbon equipment at affordable prices. 
In fact the worst part of the build is actually shipping. USPS decided that the cost of shipping is down to the size of the package not weight. If you work out the box then the equivalent weight is 150lbs so shipping a complete bike costs almost $200. By splitting the frame/components with the wheels gets the price down a lot.
I'm not looking to copy anything or deceive anyone... just make an honest buck offering quality product at an affordable price.
If anyone has any feedback on how I can improve then please let me know.
Andy


----------



## jerthehair

*Lurked, learned, bought, building*

Hey all, short and sweet my build up of a FR-315. 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7505608570/in/photostream

Frame painted by yours truly

3K Gloss weight 999gm for 54cm
Seat post at full length 166gm
Post clamp 36gm
Fork uncut 399gm

Group to come this weekend

Full Sram Force minus Apex brakes
Easton EA90 Aero's
Ritchey WCS Bar and Stem


----------



## MTBMaven

jerthehair said:


> Hey all, short and sweet my build up of a FR-315.
> 
> 2012-07-04_07-27-03_143 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
> 
> Frame painted by yours truly
> 
> 3K Gloss weight 999gm for 54cm
> Seat post at full length 166gm
> Post clamp 36gm
> Fork uncut 399gm
> 
> Group to come this weekend
> 
> Full Sram Force minus Apex brakes
> Easton EA90 Aero's
> Ritchey WCS Bar and Stem


Nice Jetta!


----------



## jerthehair

Thanks!


----------



## JasonDT

Roadfox

Looks like you have used the same Flyxii TT frame I'm currently building. I'm loving the green, really sets those deep rims off. Nice weightweenie build as well.

I do have a question though. Do you have any seatclamp issues with the frame? I had to pack out the clamp inside the frame so that the expansion wedge had enough to 'push against' to stop the post slipping, plus putting 8nm on the bolt. I've yet to set the height correctly, so I'll also carbon paste it as well, but does this sound right to you? It seems to take my weight OK, but that's just on the turbo.


----------



## RoadFox

Most people assume I use the Chinese frames... I actually bought one set and then made my own molds from that. Have you painted your seatpin?... the seatpin on the Flyxii is suppose to be painted, you'll find that the clamp works just fine then.
Thankyou for the kind words,
Andy


----------



## amedal

Good gawd! Long a*# thread!

I spent the last 3 days reading this thing from page 1 and I have to admit it was well worth it. I learned a lot! I did get some heat from the wife for spending too much time glued to this screen catching up on 80 pages of threads, lol!... Well worth it.

Another newbie here. Decided to put on my big boy panties on and build my first bike. TT bike. I am still in the research process, I kinda have trimmed my frame options to FR105, TT01, TT02 and FM018. Mostly looking for cheapest one and still getting at least 1 yr warranty (2 would be better... ..).

I have chatted momentarily with Bryant from Carbonal, seemed pretty helpful. Still contacting other providers...

After all the stuff I have read I gotta ask this, and it is basically out of curiosity. I have noticed most of the people that order frames from Asia almost always order an extra RD hanger... Why is this? Arent these little things standard? Couldnt you just get one this side of the ocean?

Anyways, I will definitely keep y'all posted on which one I end up buying and from whom. Ill also throw back here all feedback of the process and interaction with the provider, for future buyers... 

Thanks to all for a very informative thread!
Alex


----------



## amedal

Good gawd! Long a*# thread!

I spent the last 3 days reading this thing from page 1 and I have to admit it was well worth it. I learned a lot! I did get some heat from the wife for spending too much time glued to this screen catching up on 80 pages of threads, lol!... Well worth it.

Another newbie here. Decided to put on my big boy panties on and build my first bike. TT bike. I am still in the research process, I kinda have trimmed my frame options to FR105, TT01, TT02 and FM018. Mostly looking for cheapest one and still getting at least 1 yr warranty (2 would be better... ..).

I have chatted momentarily with Bryant from Carbonal, seemed pretty helpful. Still contacting other providers...

After all the stuff I have read I gotta ask this, and it is basically out of curiosity. I have noticed most of the people that order frames from Asia almost always order an extra RD hanger... Why is this? Arent these little things standard? Couldnt you just get one this side of the ocean?

Anyways, I will definitely keep y'all posted on which one I end up buying and from whom. Ill also throw back here all feedback of the process and interaction with the provider, for future buyers... 

Thanks to all for a very informative thread!
Alex


----------



## eidolon

Dérailleur hangers are non-standard. They'll be different between brands, and sometimes even within brands.

You order a couple of spare ones in case you ever bend the one on your bike- it beats waiting weeks for a replacement to arrive.


----------



## rokh

Thanks for your feedback. The SP-AC031 frameset doesnt look the same, atleast the entries of internal cabling as the greatkins fake painted cervelo has. 

Anyway i decided i like the FR-315 better, so contacted FLYXII directly, their service looks okay. Amazing how fast they answer all my emails. Also the price they offer is better than the ones on ebay for the same frameset.


----------



## karlb

*Identifying a frame*

I've been trying to identify this very cheap carbon frame that ribble is selling, but I can't work it out, I compared against Hong Fu, Deng Fu etc, but the change in size at the top of the seat stays is stumping me.

Unless of course I'm wrong in assuming that it's a Chinese frame, but at that price...yeah right.

(Yes I've used google's site: feature to try searching through this forum, don't have the posts to search because I'm a lurker, not a poster. Sorry for the DOTs in the URL)

The frame is the Ribble Evo Pro Carbon
wwwDOTribblecyclesDOTcoDOTuk/sp/road-track-bike/Road-Bike-Frames-Ribble-Evo-Pro-Carbon-Road-Frame/RIBBFRAR930
Or an image: wwwDOTribblecyclesDOTcoDOTuk/products/images/small/RIBBFRAR930_1_zoom.jpg


----------



## Almostdub

Thinking more and more about getting one of these.


----------



## bradf24

*49 cm FM015 Stolen-Replacement?*

Hey Guys,
Last year in June and July, I spent lots of time reviewing all the posts in these long threads...think it was Chinese Carbon Thread 1-5 in those days...and was thrilled when I finally received my DengFu FM015 non-ISP frame in the first week of August, 2011. That frame built up and rode like a dream. I am 5' 1" tall and the 49cm frame fit me perfectly. I branded it ACME and rode my first Double Century on it on June 23, 2012, and remember remarking to friends that I realized, after 175 miles, that this was the perfect bike for me and that I felt I could ride another 50-75 miles comfortably on it. 

On July 4, 2012, I returned home after a wonderful early morning ride and briefly left my treasured bike on our enclosed front porch while I popped into the house and changed. When I came out, the bike was gone. The bike of my dreams had disappeared.

Contacted DengFu and Mina says there are no 49cm FM015 non-ISP frames in stock. I adjust my seat constantly throughout my riding season so the ISP version does not work for me.

Does anyone have any suggestions for a similarly sized frame with similar geometry either at DengFu or HongFu or elsewhere? I remember finding a good fitting frame at GoToBikes but they would not do painting for a single order. Any other suggestions.
As always, thanks so much for all the info you share.
Brad


----------



## Almostdub

People know much about fm098


----------



## bradf24

Thanks Almostdub,
The FM098 is a great option. Checking to see if DengFu has it "in-stock" in the 48cm non-ISP advertised. Hoping to get this done sooner rather than later so waiting for a production run would be painful.


----------



## Almostdub

I have a 58cm caad so would be looking like a 58


----------



## jerthehair

7 more


----------



## amedal

eidolon said:


> Dérailleur hangers are non-standard. They'll be different between brands, and sometimes even within brands.
> 
> You order a couple of spare ones in case you ever bend the one on your bike- it beats waiting weeks for a replacement to arrive.


Good info, I knew there had to be a reason...

Hopefully my powercranks will sell soon and I can pull the trigger on my new frame!


----------



## tunedis95

Just about finished my build. Have a little gear, seat tuning. This is my first build and have not been into the hobby but for a few months. Learned everything just from reading a couple of these forums. Finished putting the bike together in several hrs, and everything fit 100% well, and frame condition after shipping was almost perfect. Had a couple nicks that I buffed out. Thanx everyone

I'm 5ft 5 and this is a 52cm frame FR105 ($540 us dollars)
3k glossy finish
One piece carbon road bars, 
Brand new full SRAM force group set
Reynolds Wheels
Selle saddle
Look classic pedals


I'll have a complete weight soon.










































The ride is totally different from my trek road bike. Feels so sporty. Remember I am a newb so don't know what to expect. It's like learning a whole different machine, feels funny.


----------



## zender

I think you have too many links in that chain, or the drivetrain is not finished yet? Check Youtube for video on how to determine correct chain length depending on geraing. And do you have a really long torso relative to legs or you just haven't tuned the saddle height yet?


----------



## dougrocky123

Brake release lever is in the open position. Lever down,adjust to rim. Lever up to open brake and remove wheel. Don't forget about brake pad toe - in. Beautiful bike!


----------



## mattah

So, still no FM066s built yet?


----------



## hansonator69

alex1rob said:


> What do we think about this one?


I can't find any info on it now... looks like its been taken down from the Synergy Sports Alibaba site.


----------



## kanekikapu

mattah said:


> So, still no FM066s built yet?


Someone just got his on another forum. Looks good! I am gonna wait and see as more people get their hands on one before deciding whether i should buy one...


----------



## zac chinarello

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/all-wholesale-products/321171.html would someone tell me if these a legit or not i would think not? 880 for sram red complete bike?


----------



## ptsbike55

Bogus


----------



## PlatyPius

zac chinarello said:


> Find All China Products On Sale from quanguo wu's store on Aliexpress.com - STRADALLI SRAM RED BLACK CARBON ROAD BIKE BICYCLE 50 cm,Western Flyer Bike Bicycle Model D Restored,Custom Giant Stiletto Chopper Electric Bicycle and more would someone tell me if these a legit or not i would think not? 880 for sram red complete bike?


I'll quote myself from another thread...



PlatyPius said:


> Being amazed that Alibaba is nothing but a site full of ripoffs and counterfeiters is like being amazed that poking yourself in the eye with a hot poker will cause blindness...


----------



## zender

hansonator69 said:


> I can't find any info on it now... looks like its been taken down from the Synergy Sports Alibaba site.


Dengfu FM069. We're all waiting for someone to pull the trigger on this one.

Here is the first discussion of it on rbr
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...read-ebay-direct-version-6-0-a-272806-54.html details are about 3/4 down that page.

I seem to recall it being well over a grand including brakes. C'mon someone build one up already! :thumbsup:


----------



## Royale81

Well after all the positive experiences, I think I'll be getting myself an FM039 from Hongfu. I am a complete novice to road bikes and road riding but my friend owns a bike shop and is very interested in helping with the build.


----------



## hansonator69

zender said:


> Dengfu FM069. We're all waiting for someone to pull the trigger on this one.
> 
> Here is the first discussion of it on rbr
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...read-ebay-direct-version-6-0-a-272806-54.html details are about 3/4 down that page.
> 
> I seem to recall it being well over a grand including brakes. C'mon someone build one up already! :thumbsup:


The price is a bit steep for a China frame, considering there really is no warranty, etc. involved.


----------



## danvuquoc

kanekikapu said:


> Someone just got his on another forum. Looks good! I am gonna wait and see as more people get their hands on one before deciding whether i should buy one...


Link?


----------



## Tompelan

My first ride on my FM039, participated on 120KM cycling race last saturday. Every thing was perfect and max speed 64km/hr (mountain descend) on this first ride.


----------



## ms6073

zender said:


> Dengfu FM069. We're all waiting for someone to pull the trigger on this one.
> 
> C'mon someone build one up already! :thumbsup:


I amy be wrong but I dont think the FM069 time trial frameset has completed testing which means it is not yet in production which means at least another 30-45 days before Dengfu will ship the first frame.


----------



## zender

danvuquoc said:


> Link?


I think that was in reference to the FM066, a standard road geometry frame. In testing here:
FM066-TEST | Flickr - Photo Sharing!



> I amy be wrong but I dont think the FM069 time trial frameset has completed testing which means it is not yet in production which means at least another 30-45 days before Dengfu will ship the first frame.


You may be right, I noticed on Hongfu flicker page, they have the frame as a "2013 TT frame." 2013 does make it seem this is a ways off still. To confuse matters, they have it listed as FM086.

I know commoditizing the industry is what's making the prices so low, but these guys sure could use a marketing department and start giving the bikes real names so we can keep them sorted out.


----------



## tunedis95

I don't know what happened to my previous post so here it is again

Just about finished my build. Have a little gear, seat tuning. This is my first build and have not been into the hobby but for a few months. Learned everything just from reading a couple of these forums. Finished putting the bike together in several hrs, and everything fit 100% well, and frame condition after shipping was almost perfect. Had a couple nicks that I buffed out. Thanx everyone

I'm 5ft 5 and this is a 52cm frame FR105 ($540 us dollars) ordered from a_baygoods on eBay 
3k glossy finish
One piece carbon road bars, 
Brand new full SRAM force group set
Reynolds Wheels
Selle saddle
Look classic Pedals

Weighed it with 2 household scales, and came up with 15.2 lbs. will be taking it to LBS here soon to get a bit more accurate.


















]

















The ride is totally different from my trek road bike. Feels twitchy. I now have approximately 70 miles on the bike, and starting to get that hang of her. I rode with my brother that has a Cervelo P4. Going on a decent starting at the exact same speed I was actually able to pull a couple feet ahead of him which was pretty crazy, and was even able to pull away from him on the uphill which I could never do before. Very satisfied with the build


----------



## forge55b

tunedis95 said:


> I don't know what happened to my previous post so here it is again
> 
> Just about finished my build. Have a little gear, seat tuning. This is my first build and have not been into the hobby but for a few months. Learned everything just from reading a couple of these forums. Finished putting the bike together in several hrs, and everything fit 100% well, and frame condition after shipping was almost perfect. Had a couple nicks that I buffed out. Thanx everyone
> 
> I'm 5ft 5 and this is a 52cm frame FR105 ($540 us dollars) ordered from a_baygoods on eBay
> 3k glossy finish
> One piece carbon road bars,
> Brand new full SRAM force group set
> Reynolds Wheels
> Selle saddle
> Look classic Pedals
> 
> Weighed it with 2 household scales, and came up with 15.2 lbs. will be taking it to LBS here soon to get a bit more accurate.


Still not totally accurate but you can weigh yourself and then weigh yourself holding the bike and then subtract to get a more accurate weight.

And cool build. :thumbsup:


----------



## Rainerhq

*SP-AC024 from ICAN*

Got my CX frame from ICAN. Paintjob is done by them and decals from local shop.
size 54
frame 1200g
uncut fork 488g


----------



## Wadl

You need to take some links out of that chain my friend !! 



tunedis95 said:


> I don't know what happened to my previous post so here it is again
> 
> Just about finished my build. Have a little gear, seat tuning. This is my first build and have not been into the hobby but for a few months. Learned everything just from reading a couple of these forums. Finished putting the bike together in several hrs, and everything fit 100% well, and frame condition after shipping was almost perfect. Had a couple nicks that I buffed out. Thanx everyone
> 
> I'm 5ft 5 and this is a 52cm frame FR105 ($540 us dollars) ordered from a_baygoods on eBay
> 3k glossy finish
> One piece carbon road bars,
> Brand new full SRAM force group set
> Reynolds Wheels
> Selle saddle
> Look classic Pedals
> 
> Weighed it with 2 household scales, and came up with 15.2 lbs. will be taking it to LBS here soon to get a bit more accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ride is totally different from my trek road bike. Feels twitchy. I now have approximately 70 miles on the bike, and starting to get that hang of her. I rode with my brother that has a Cervelo P4. Going on a decent starting at the exact same speed I was actually able to pull a couple feet ahead of him which was pretty crazy, and was even able to pull away from him on the uphill which I could never do before. Very satisfied with the build


----------



## tunedis95

Chain is adjusted. Might have taken one to many out now, but it works fine. Raised my seat again as well. Loving this bike!


----------



## kip.duff

*lube internal cable channels?*

Building my new HongFu FM039- cables running thru the frame. Noticed that the rear derailleur cable had some resistance on pull. Any consensus on this issue? I thought about Tri-Flo, but didn't think a good idea because might get sticky and dirty. I have some dry powdered Teflon micro balls used for lube on piano parts. Has a syringe applicator so I could puff it thru the cable channels. Or: do some cables have slick coating? BTW, cables went thru easy- just pushed them thru.


----------



## svard75

Rainerhq said:


> Got my CX frame from ICAN. Paintjob is done by them and decals from local shop.
> size 54
> frame 1200g
> uncut fork 488g


Super nice! I was looking to get myself a CX frame as well. My issue is the fd is top pull and i have an ultegra fd. Without buying a new fd how could i make that work? Whats your build going to look like?


----------



## svard75

kip.duff said:


> Building my new HongFu FM039- cables running thru the frame. Noticed that the rear derailleur cable had some resistance on pull. Any consensus on this issue? I thought about Tri-Flo, but didn't think a good idea because might get sticky and dirty. I have some dry powdered Teflon micro balls used for lube on piano parts. Has a syringe applicator so I could puff it thru the cable channels. Or: do some cables have slick coating? BTW, cables went thru easy- just pushed them thru.


I always use PTFE coated cables. Never had an issue. That resistance may be due to the entry and exit hole sizes. It could also be if you are using cable housing caps with seals. Or any bends that are extreme in the cable. How long is the cable housing from the shifters to the opening and from the exit to the rd?


----------



## Rainerhq

svard75 said:


> Super nice! I was looking to get myself a CX frame as well. My issue is the fd is top pull and i have an ultegra fd. Without buying a new fd how could i make that work? Whats your build going to look like?


Your FD will work in this frame with Speen adapter


----------



## markrhino

try 'DMR mech verter' on wiggle


----------



## svard75

Rainerhq said:


> Your FD will work in this frame with Speen adapter


Not too fond of the bar contraption. More curious which FD will you be using?



markrhino said:


> try 'DMR mech verter' on wiggle


This is interesting but clunky. I may actually want a new FD. Thought it would be an easy trick but guess not. Thanks for replying.


----------



## svard75

Rainerhq said:


> Your FD will work in this frame with Speen adapter


Hey Rainerhq, would you mind posting a side shot of your frame? I'm curious, the head angle looks to be a bit steep for a cross frame.


----------



## Rainerhq

svard75 said:


> Not too fond of the bar contraption. More curious which FD will you be using?


Dura-Ace, FD-7900 with Speen adapter


----------



## Rainerhq

*SP-AC024 geometry*

Geometry


----------



## Royale81

Hi has anyone here dealt with miracle trade? If so can they shoot me the direct email to speak with them? I've tried to contact them through there alibaba site byt no response as yet.


----------



## Royale81

Ok, nevermind, no sooner did i finish typing the last post, i got a response.


----------



## kip.duff

svard75 said:


> I always use PTFE coated cables. Never had an issue. That resistance may be due to the entry and exit hole sizes. It could also be if you are using cable housing caps with seals. Or any bends that are extreme in the cable. How long is the cable housing from the shifters to the opening and from the exit to the rd?


Shifters to entry: 20". Outlet to RD: 10". I need to clarify: I have some generic unknown new cable laying in my parts bin. Since I have never had a bike with internal routing, I needed to see how difficult it might be to run (push) the cables thru. In case of both FD and RD, cables went thru very easy. No cable housing installed at this time. In the case of this bike (HongFu FM039), the cables are not visible and there is no opening at the bottom bracket area- the cable enters the frame near the steerer and exits near the derailleurs. The FD obviously makes a more drastic bend of approx 130 degrees- radius unknown. Bend for the RD typical of any bike. What was troubling to me was that in the case of the RD (which has a mild bend), there seemed to be some binding on pull. Worried that there is some crevice that the cable is wedging in internally. Tempted to use the cable as an abrative device and mildly carve a groove for it by repeatedly pulling it back and forth. Don't know what effect having RD spring tension on the cable will have yet. Whose cables are you using that are "PTFE" coated?

By the way: entry bores for cable/cable housing is about 5.6mm (0.22"), brake and derailleur. Dura Ace derailleur housing is 4.0mm OD- brake 4.8mm OD. Are people generally using cable housing ends?


----------



## ms6073

svard75 said:


> My issue is the fd is top pull and i have an ultegra fd.


I know you said you didnt want to buy a new deraileur and the Speen Umlenker works fine with DA7900, but for Ultegra shifters,the cleaner solution is the Shimano CX70 top pull front deraileur.


----------



## cajer

Has anyone tried one of those fake Cevelo s5s off of cyclingyong or any other website? Do they maintain all the aero features?


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

Royale81 said:


> Hi has anyone here dealt with miracle trade? If so can they shoot me the direct email to speak with them? I've tried to contact them through there alibaba site byt no response as yet.





cajer said:


> Has anyone tried one of those fake Cevelo s5s off of cyclingyong or any other website? Do they maintain all the aero features?


Careful there ...

Some sellers are ok if there are no problems, but the 'litmus' test is when you encounter problems, and then the picture becomes clearer ...


----------



## rayovolks

cajer said:


> Has anyone tried one of those fake Cevelo s5s off of cyclingyong or any other website? Do they maintain all the aero features?


In that situation it's not the aerodynamics you need to worry about, it is about you potentially being scammed.


----------



## cajer

I thought cyclingyong was supposed to be reputable


----------



## MilanoRex

Received my frame today from Hong-Fu and it was missing the seat post and clamp that I ordered, d'oh! I emailed Jenny to see what they can do..anyone else have a problem like this?


----------



## mrcreosote

markrhino said:


> try 'DMR mech verter' on wiggle


or this

Problem Solvers


----------



## mrcreosote

Rainerhq said:


> Your FD will work in this frame with Speen adapter


or this

Carbon-Ti "X-Pull"


----------



## rayovolks

cajer said:


> I thought cyclingyong was supposed to be reputable


you are either being funny, sarcastic, or need to do more research on that particular seller.


----------



## JasonDT

JasonDT said:


> Roadfox
> 
> Looks like you have used the same Flyxii TT frame I'm currently building. I'm loving the green, really sets those deep rims off. Nice weightweenie build as well.
> 
> I do have a question though. Do you have any seatclamp issues with the frame? I had to pack out the clamp inside the frame so that the expansion wedge had enough to 'push against' to stop the post slipping, plus putting 8nm on the bolt. I've yet to set the height correctly, so I'll also carbon paste it as well, but does this sound right to you? It seems to take my weight OK, but that's just on the turbo.


Well, it didn't work. I ended up having to DNS two time trials last weekend because the post wouldn't even stay put to get me to the start line. I've since made a coke can shim as the post is really loose in the frame, and is rocking back and forth. It's made it a little better, the post now slides in rather than drops into the frame, but not cured it. I've just been for a ride and it's slipped again. It just seems that the post is rocking slightly and slowly levering the clamp out of the frame.

So, short of putting a couple of self tapping screws through frame and post, does anybody have any suggestions? I have a 100 TT this weekend, and it's looking likely I'll have to build up my old bike to race.


----------



## timsen

*Fm098 di2 issue's?*

Hi Guys,

At the moment I am looking for the FM098 DI2 ready frame. 
But I have seen issue's with the internal di2 cable routing.

Can you guys give me some more information about this? 

thanks in forward!


----------



## Royale81

Have pulled the trigger on an MC053 from Miracle. Will post details of the build once i receive the frame.


----------



## crockpot2001

*Tall guy wants carbon frame/bike ASAP!*

Besides Pedal force, anyone carry a good stock of framesets/complete bikes in larger sizes? It's Satuday and I need a frame or complete bike by next friday in the DC area. TT needs to be 59-61cm effective. Sloping TT is prefered. 

Bikes direct can't express ship and Pedal force is out of stock. What's left? 

Regards,
Crockpot


----------



## rbart4506

You need an LBS for service that quick...


----------



## orlin03

JasonDT said:


> So, short of putting a couple of self tapping screws through frame and post, does anybody have any suggestions? I have a 100 TT this weekend, and it's looking likely I'll have to build up my old bike to race.


Quick fix if you can't cure it: get a clamp around the seatpost itself, right above the seat tube exit. That'll at least stop it from slipping down while you ride.


----------



## orlin03

Finished the first of three builds. This one is for my friend; it'll be his first road bike. FM028 from Dengfu, size 58. Built it up with spare parts: 8spd Sora, triple Truvative crank, 12-21 cassette, and some heavy training wheels. It still feels like it weighs right around 17lbs; not shabby at all! Rides a bit stiff in the rear like a racing bike, but not so stiff up front. For the money, though, he's going to be the happiest rider in Philly next week!


----------



## orlin03

*Another Question about Brakes on FM018*

I recieved my two FM018 TT bikes, and started putting them together. I got stumped right away with mounting the brakes. I am using the new Campy brakes (same design as the Tektro lateral pulls). They came with a spacer, a long bolt, and a nut (to the right of the brakes in the pic). To the left in the pic is the mounting plate from the bike and the bolts that hold it in place.










Question 1: Rear brakes: I am not sure how to use the mounting plate. I know I can't use the bolt that came with the brakes, but wondering what I should use, and what order they go in. 

Question 2: front brakes: I am using the same brake up front, too. All the websites said these brakes could be mounting in front of or behind the fork, but the directions and hardware are only for mounting them behind the fork. Obviously, the fork on this bike won't allow this mounting style. Any advice on how to mount them up front? Can I use any of these parts, or will I need all new hardware? 

I'm not against taking it to a shop, since I'm going to have them mount the BB30 bearings anyway, but I'd rather get these on first if I can. I did a lot of searching, but didn't find a thread that showed the actual mounting order of these things & hardware used.


----------



## hansonator69

"ok, our FM086 will open size 50/52/54/56cm, now size 54cm already pass the tes. 
can starts produce. 
the price is : 
Frame + Fork + Seatpost + Stem + Handlebar (FM086+FK086+SP086+ST086+HB086): $1200 
headset fit frame: $15 
shipping cost; $95

best regards,
Jenny
HongFu sports Equipment Co.,Ltd"


----------



## Klernie

my FM098 from dengfu.


----------



## Rainerhq

I have a little problem with bottle cage attachment. One nut, which supposed to be clued (molded) to frame, cracked and threaded part falled into frame. Now there is no threaded hole where to screw bottle cage bolt. Any idea, how to fix this problem?
Existing hole is 1,5mm smaller than the nut, so I can´t insert the nut from outside.



ptsbike55 said:


> Show some more pictures of the problem.


EDIT: added 2 pics


----------



## JasonDT

orlin03 said:


> Quick fix if you can't cure it: get a clamp around the seatpost itself, right above the seat tube exit. That'll at least stop it from slipping down while you ride.


Thanks for the suggestion, but I thankfully got it sorted out. I just doubled up the shim, so the seatpost couldn't possibly rock in the frame, before the clamp was in. Rode a 100 TT on it this Sunday, post was solid as a rock, plus got a PB into the bargain.


----------



## kbfore

Nice looking ride. Did you add the decals?


----------



## kbfore

Klernie said:


> my FM098 from dengfu.
> 
> Did you add the decals?


----------



## ptsbike55

> I have a little problem with bottle cage attachment. One nut, which supposed to be clued (molded) to frame, cracked and threaded part falled into frame. Now there is no threaded hole where to screw bottle cage bolt. Any idea, how to fix this problem?
> Existing hole is 1,5mm smaller than the nut, so I can´t insert the nut from outside.
> 
> 
> Attached Images


Show some more pictures of the problem.


----------



## rbart4506

hansonator69 said:


> "ok, our FM086 will open size 50/52/54/56cm, now size 54cm already pass the tes.
> can starts produce.
> the price is :
> Frame + Fork + Seatpost + Stem + Handlebar (FM086+FK086+SP086+ST086+HB086): $1200
> headset fit frame: $15
> shipping cost; $95
> 
> best regards,
> Jenny
> HongFu sports Equipment Co.,Ltd"


Does the bike meet the UCI 3:1 rules??

I realize it won't have the UCI sticker, but around hear the cycling association is quite the stickler on the 3:1 rule for frames, seatpost, forks and base bars,,,


----------



## JasonDT

orlin03 said:


> I recieved my two FM018 TT bikes, and started putting them together. I got stumped right away with mounting the brakes. I am using the new Campy brakes (same design as the Tektro lateral pulls). They came with a spacer, a long bolt, and a nut (to the right of the brakes in the pic). To the left in the pic is the mounting plate from the bike and the bolts that hold it in place.
> 
> Question 1: Rear brakes: I am not sure how to use the mounting plate. I know I can't use the bolt that came with the brakes, but wondering what I should use, and what order they go in.
> 
> Question 2: front brakes: I am using the same brake up front, too. All the websites said these brakes could be mounting in front of or behind the fork, but the directions and hardware are only for mounting them behind the fork. Obviously, the fork on this bike won't allow this mounting style. Any advice on how to mount them up front? Can I use any of these parts, or will I need all new hardware?
> 
> I'm not against taking it to a shop, since I'm going to have them mount the BB30 bearings anyway, but I'd rather get these on first if I can. I did a lot of searching, but didn't find a thread that showed the actual mounting order of these things & hardware used.


Q1: That's the front brake in the picture, which will not fit. The rear brake has a threaded stud, which you bolt the plate to using the supplied allen nut. The plate is then bolted to the frame. Are you just confusing the front and rear brakes?

Q2: You may find that the allen nut for fitting the front brake has to be pushed down the rear mounting hole, rather than bolting on the outside. My Flyxii forks, although rear fitting, needed the bolt to fit in rather than outside the forks. It just needed a bit of persuasion to go down the hole due to clearcoat overspray. You need a long allen key to reach the nut in this instance. I also had to use a rear brake on the front, as the drop from bolt hole to tyre was too much with the front brake, plus the bolts were incorrect.

Hope this helps.


----------



## orlin03

JasonDT said:


> Q1: That's the front brake in the picture, which will not fit. The rear brake has a threaded stud, which you bolt the plate to using the supplied allen nut. The plate is then bolted to the frame. Are you just confusing the front and rear brakes?
> 
> Q2: You may find that the allen nut for fitting the front brake has to be pushed down the rear mounting hole, rather than bolting on the outside. My Flyxii forks, although rear fitting, needed the bolt to fit in rather than outside the forks. It just needed a bit of persuasion to go down the hole due to clearcoat overspray. You need a long allen key to reach the nut in this instance. I also had to use a rear brake on the front, as the drop from bolt hole to tyre was too much with the front brake, plus the bolts were incorrect.
> 
> Hope this helps.


Thanks. Looks like I may have to get different brakes; I was told that the bike took a front brake in the rear as well, so I have all front brakes right now.


----------



## JasonDT

If you have a spare 'standard' front brake I'd just give that a try in the forks first. It probably isn't worth using the Campagnolo front lateral pull brake over an ordinary brake, the performance is OK rather than excellent. But yes, you definitely need a Campagnolo rear, a standard brake will not offer the clearance for the cranks you need.


----------



## Bremerradkurier

crockpot2001 said:


> Besides Pedal force, anyone carry a good stock of framesets/complete bikes in larger sizes? It's Satuday and I need a frame or complete bike by next friday in the DC area. TT needs to be 59-61cm effective. Sloping TT is prefered.
> 
> Bikes direct can't express ship and Pedal force is out of stock. What's left?
> 
> Regards,
> Crockpot


November is local here in the DC area, and their frames are pretty similar to Pedal Force.


----------



## ptsbike55

[QUOTEI have a little problem with bottle cage attachment. One nut, which supposed to be clued (molded) to frame, cracked and threaded part falled into frame. Now there is no threaded hole where to screw bottle cage bolt. Any idea, how to fix this problem?
Existing hole is 1,5mm smaller than the nut, so I can´t insert the nut from outside.
][/QUOTE]

I have had a LBS put a threaded rivet in one of my bikes (steel frame) and it has worked fine. You might even be able to glue a nut over the hole and it would hold fine as well.


----------



## kanekikapu

$1200 is a lot to ask for a Chinese frame even with fork/seatpost/stem/bar...



hansonator69 said:


> "ok, our FM086 will open size 50/52/54/56cm, now size 54cm already pass the tes.
> can starts produce.
> the price is :
> Frame + Fork + Seatpost + Stem + Handlebar (FM086+FK086+SP086+ST086+HB086): $1200
> headset fit frame: $15
> shipping cost; $95
> 
> best regards,
> Jenny
> HongFu sports Equipment Co.,Ltd"


----------



## zender

kanekikapu said:


> $1200 is a lot to ask for a Chinese frame even with fork/seatpost/stem/bar...


And it doesn't include the brakes or shipping. At that point, I think you're starting to enter used Specialized or other name brand range . True, it would be used and maybe not have the super cool integrated front end - but you could at least see it before buying.


----------



## Urb

zender said:


> And it doesn't include the brakes or shipping. At that point, I think you're starting to enter used Specialized or other name brand range . True, it would be used and maybe not have the super cool integrated front end - but you could at least see it before buying.


Going on the premises that the frame is good the price seems ok. Perhaps not the super deals we've seen with some of the road bike frames but this has a bit more work. The integrated fork for one. The FM18 is $600 just frame, fork, and seat post. Throw in $300 for the bars and you have a baseline.

If there is a gripe it would be that this is a frankenstien of felt and cervelo.


----------



## 1805078

RE: bottle cages lugs broken
You can get this fixed. You may have to ring around to the LBS but someone will do it. I have had mine fixed on 2 occassions. I live in Brisbane, Australia so I know where to go to get them fixed


----------



## zender

Seems like you could fix the bottle cage lugs with some 5minute 2 part epoxy, clean it with some isopropyl alcohol before and after. Keep the epoxy of the threads. It's not like this is holding the bike together, just a few ft-lb of torque on those bolts.


----------



## DudeMtn

*DengFu FMO15*

Over 2,000 miles and 2 seasons on her and still solid. What a great deal.


----------



## kbfore

*Decals*



DudeMtn said:


> Over 2,000 miles and 2 seasons on her and still solid. What a great deal.


Did you put the decals on or did the seller?


----------



## chompychomps

hey guys! just joined this forum, ordering my bike from velobuild's group buys.. just thought i shld get some feedback from you guys.. 

im geting a fm-098 frame from deng fu,
i got the 10 speed microshift arsis mini gruppo
and now im deciding on the crankset and the cassette

i live in singapore so not much hills and mountains. just normal roads. i was thinking of getting a ultegra 6750 compact crankset with 11-25 cassette's from CRC as international shipping would be cheaper there. ive received some feedback that this setup might have some problems with the clearance.....anyone of you got similar builds? 

i dont mind getting a normal crankset but i thought going compact is the 'in' thing nowadays.. i know compacts make climbs easier, but i dont do much climbing.. so doesnt really matter right? 

really appreciate any feedback!


----------



## Klernie

kbfore said:


> Klernie said:
> 
> 
> 
> my FM098 from dengfu.
> 
> Did you add the decals?
> 
> 
> 
> tnx..yup i add the decals myself
Click to expand...


----------



## toddious

Ok, I've read through 5.0 and 6.0 and I'm settled on getting the 2012 Chinarello Dogma Clone from GreatKeen. However, I'm still not sure the appropriate and easiest way to go about ordering when in the US. 

Do I want to use the AliExpress website to purchase? 
Is there an email to contact them directly?
How long should I expect for shipment to USA with one of their stock paint jobs?

Also, in the painted versions of the Dogma2 clones, are the black areas actually painted black? Or is it naked carbon? I love the exposed carbon look, but it looks like black paint in all the photos....

Any help is appreciated. It seems most posts are from DengFu or HongFu buyers, and I still don't fully understand the differences between them and GreatKeen (even after 200+ pages)....


----------



## Teo

toddious said:


> Ok, I've read through 5.0 and 6.0 and I'm settled on getting the 2012 Chinarello Dogma Clone from GreatKeen. However, I'm still not sure the appropriate and easiest way to go about ordering when in the US.
> 
> Do I want to use the AliExpress website to purchase?
> Is there an email to contact them directly?
> How long should I expect for shipment to USA with one of their stock paint jobs?
> 
> Also, in the painted versions of the Dogma2 clones, are the black areas actually painted black? Or is it naked carbon? I love the exposed carbon look, but it looks like black paint in all the photos....
> 
> Any help is appreciated. It seems most posts are from DengFu or HongFu buyers, and I still don't fully understand the differences between them and GreatKeen (even after 200+ pages)....



Good choice, I have one of their Dogma replica frames also, and love it. I could not be happier with it.

When I purchased from them it was direct, didn't use the AliExpress site. The contact email I used was [email protected]. Just in case you are wondering their PayPal account was [email protected].

I had special branding done on my frame, so it took about 60 days to get mine to California from date of payment to actual delivery. Some other folks got theirs in about 45 with standard paint jobs. 

The black areas on my frame are painted, but I suspect you can ask them to leave the carbon weave showing if you prefer. I’m sure they can do it. 

Post some pics when you get it.


----------



## chompychomps

Hey teo, I'm wondering how different is your paintjob compared to the real pina's which one did you get? Isn't greatkeen the same as dengfu?


----------



## Teo

chompychomps said:


> Hey teo, I'm wondering how different is your paintjob compared to the real pina's which one did you get? Isn't greatkeen the same as dengfu?


I attached a pic of my bike and one of the original. It's pretty close. Mine just has black in some areas where the original is white. I'm not sure if Greatkeen is Dengfu. I guess it's possible.


----------



## DudeMtn

*Decals*



kbfore said:


> Did you put the decals on or did the seller?


I designed the decals, Marco in Brazil made them and I applied them. More pics in my gallery if interested. Search for Marco Pollo in the thread.


----------



## Farby

Has anybody seen the newish frame from dengfu? FM066 I think. Something like 850 grams. What is it supposed to be a clone of?


----------



## toddious

Teo said:


> I attached a pic of my bike and one of the original. It's pretty close. Mine just has black in some areas where the original is white. I'm not sure if Greatkeen is Dengfu. I guess it's possible.


Man, that is freaking sweet! That looks excellent. I was considering the White/Black/Red Movistar look that is very similar to that (just mainly white instead of red), and was considering just keeping the Pina decals because I think it's such a sweet paintjob- even though I hate the idea of a knock-off with Pina stamped on it. 

I love what you did keeping the overall scheme but changing in your custom decals. I wish I was creative enough to think of a cool name. All I've come up with are "Toddious" which is always my screen name, or "Schenck" which is my last name. I had even considered the "Mad-Dog/Chinarello" badging just because I think it's kinda funny and I'm not artsy enough to come up with my own....

I really hope they can do the clear/naked carbon you mentioned. I'm going to try to contact GreatKeen through the email you mentioned. Thanks for the help.


----------



## arevuar

FM039-ISP, 58, mat black, 105 groupset


----------



## zender

Interesting that Nashbar sells an off-brand bike with wavy fork and seatstays similar to the older Pinarello style. All external cables though.


----------



## way2go

Rick Draper said:


> Daoe anyone know what factory the Planet X Exocet 2 frame and forks comes out of?


Does anyone know the answer to this question?


----------



## chompychomps

im thinking of getting a fm-098 from dengfu, with microshift arsis mini groupset and a compact ultegra 6750 with a ultegra cassette. anyone with similar builds facing problems like chain rub or noisy drivetrain?


----------



## maxxevv

zender said:


> Interesting that Nashbar sells an off-brand bike with wavy fork and seatstays similar to the older Pinarello style. All external cables though.


OPERA is a subsidiary of Pinarello. Its not an 'off-brand' though.


----------



## bikinfranny

*2012 Dogma 2 Pinarello Campagnolo Super Record Titanium 11 Speed 53"*

I have Shamal Ultra 2 Way Fit Wheels. 110cm Handlebars 1 Piece Most. Fizik Seat. Does anyone else have this bar/seat combo? How do you like it? Thanks


----------



## kip.duff

*stickers for new FM039*



DudeMtn said:


> I designed the decals, Marco in Brazil made them and I applied them. More pics in my gallery if interested. Search for Marco Pollo in the thread.


Just built my new FM039 last week (received last week), 56cm, Cannondale Hollowgram Si BB30 crankset, Dura Ace, DengFu 38mm wheelset (components taken from my trusty 2003 Canondale CAAD7). Very easy build. Seat post does not slip. At all! Didn't even use carbon paste. Apparently resolved issue. I was all worried about a bunch of possible build problems, but there were none. Will post build notes.

Needs stickers. Am emailing with Marco now. Questions. This is white media with outline of sticker pre-cut by Marco, and mounted on a "backing" application sheet? Removable? Were you able to send graphics file thru email? What program? How long for delivery? I have Photoshop, and Epson 4900 Stylus Pro and HP Color Laser, but results probably not too good with whatever media I might be able to get.

Decided to go different direction with graphics: focus on actual origin of the bike: HongFu (means "vast wealth", I think). Got words from Jane, eventually able to paste into Photoshop and convert words into Microsoft JhengHei- apparently a resident font in Windows 7 Professional!? Also will say "FM039" in Western font. Attached preliminary sketches.

Thanks in advance, Kip..........


----------



## DudeMtn

kip.duff said:


> Just built my new FM039 last week (received last week), 56cm, Cannondale Hollowgram Si BB30 crankset, Dura Ace, DengFu 38mm wheelset (components taken from my trusty 2003 Canondale CAAD7). Very easy build. Seat post does not slip. At all! Didn't even use carbon paste. Apparently resolved issue. I was all worried about a bunch of possible build problems, but there were none. Will post build notes.
> 
> Needs stickers. Am emailing with Marco now. Questions. This is white media with outline of sticker pre-cut by Marco, and mounted on a "backing" application sheet? Removable? Were you able to send graphics file thru email? What program? How long for delivery? I have Photoshop, and Epson 4900 Stylus Pro and HP Color Laser, but results probably not too good with whatever media I might be able to get.
> 
> Decided to go different direction with graphics: focus on actual origin of the bike: HongFu (means "vast wealth", I think). Got words from Jane, eventually able to paste into Photoshop and convert words into Microsoft JhengHei- apparently a resident font in Windows 7 Professional!? Also will say "FM039" in Western font. Attached preliminary sketches.
> 
> Thanks in advance, Kip..........


Kip,
check out his site for ideas. Stickers Design
some of my originals are on one of the last road bike pages. 
I also attached a spreadsheet he sent me after I sent designed what I wanted in photoshop and converted to jpeg. he took my graphics and placed them on FMO15 frames for reference, sent them to me and we made edits then finalized. can't say enough about Marco and his willingness to get it right. the decals are good quality, very easy to apply, stay attached very well after numerous cleanings and look professional.

one piece of advise - do not make your fond or graphics too thin or too pointy on the edges. when your leg hitd them or you run a rag across, the very sharp edges can get caught. hope this helps


----------



## Timbuctoo

Hello Teo,

I PM ed you regarding your Dogma clones. Just concerned about the build and since you've just completed yours you could be a great help. I notice that these aero seatpost versions have internal cable routing, did the cables feed through smoothly?

They also appear to be a taller, shorter effective TT, shorter wheel base frame, so how does the bike handle and can you confirm that the geometry shown online is pretty close to the mark? I ask because I have ordered the 58cm frame as I feel comfortable on all other 58s I've ridden. This one is a little different. I currently use a 120mm stem on my 58cm so I was thinking an ultra long 140mm stem might solve the shorter TT issue. Does this sound roughly right? Height of frame won't be a problem.

Any info on these frames from yourself or others would be appreciated.


----------



## bernard29

*A picture of my fm012 ISP*

Hi,
Spend a lot of time to buy any component of my bike but my Fm012 TT is ok now
First Triathlon last sunday and 2 minutes better on the same lap than 2 years ago on my traditionnal bike ( I m not in a better condition than 2 years ago ! )
Very Happy ...

https://picasaweb.google.com/114800064963829235188/Fm012TTISP#5767121058562822690


----------



## beij

Just received my 52cm FM066 from Hongfu via Pudding Luo. Finish is superb, weight is 860grms with hanger. Internal cabling is a bit tricky but once completed shifting is fine. Tried to upload pictures via iPad but waisted 1/2hr getting nowhere so will post frame and final finish photos tomorrow with an initial test ride report. Frame is a work of art, just beautiful!


----------



## kanekikapu

beij said:


> Just received my 52cm FM066 from Hongfu via Pudding Luo. Finish is superb, weight is 860grms with hanger. Internal cabling is a bit tricky but once completed shifting is fine. Tried to upload pictures via iPad but waisted 1/2hr getting nowhere so will post frame and final finish photos tomorrow with an initial test ride report. Frame is a work of art, just beautiful!


Now that's exciting! Looking forward to see it!


----------



## clayfree

beij said:


> Just received my 52cm FM066 from Hongfu via Pudding Luo. Finish is superb, weight is 860grms with hanger. Internal cabling is a bit tricky but once completed shifting is fine. Tried to upload pictures via iPad but waisted 1/2hr getting nowhere so will post frame and final finish photos tomorrow with an initial test ride report. Frame is a work of art, just beautiful!


Can't wait to see the photos. I have been looking at that frame and it's beautiful!


----------



## clayfree

I'm about to order an FM029 from DengFu and hope someone can help clarify the finish for me. I want a Matte Black finish like some of the great photos posted here. I'm ordering frameset, seatpost, handlebars and bottle cages and would like them to match. My question is that a painted matte black that I am seeing? Or should I ask for a UD with matte finish?

Thanks for any replies


----------



## ultraman6970

Looks like an old pinarello mold like 5 or 7 years ago when they started making carbon bikes with the wavy stuff, wouldn't surprise me that those are made from the old molds but for that price is too much IMO.




zender said:


> Interesting that Nashbar sells an off-brand bike with wavy fork and seatstays similar to the older Pinarello style. All external cables though.


----------



## IRFilter

these bikes are awesome, ive never built a bike before but im going to try with one of these frames. Currently just getting a list together of all the parts i will need.


----------



## Teo

Timbuctoo said:


> Hello Teo,
> 
> I PM ed you regarding your Dogma clones. Just concerned about the build and since you've just completed yours you could be a great help. I notice that these aero seatpost versions have internal cable routing, did the cables feed through smoothly?
> 
> They also appear to be a taller, shorter effective TT, shorter wheel base frame, so how does the bike handle and can you confirm that the geometry shown online is pretty close to the mark? I ask because I have ordered the 58cm frame as I feel comfortable on all other 58s I've ridden. This one is a little different. I currently use a 120mm stem on my 58cm so I was thinking an ultra long 140mm stem might solve the shorter TT issue. Does this sound roughly right? Height of frame won't be a problem.
> 
> Any info on these frames from yourself or others would be appreciated.



I pm’d you back. 

I had no problems with the internal cabling, but the lack of barrel adjusters makes adjusting the front derailed more time consuming. Was thinking of adding some inline barrel adjusters like the ones from Jagwire. 

I haven’t measured my frame so can’t confirm with 100% certainty that the sizing is as stated on their specs. All I can say is that I have a 50cm frame which is supposed to have a 49.5 top tube, and a few months back I was using a Wilier size 50 with a 52.5 to tube. The GK frame does feel a little shorter but hardly noticeable, FYI I used a 100mm stem on both. 

I think because of the shorter wheel base this bike handles better than my Wilier, it’s very nimble and corners better. Feels more secure. It also feels quite a bit stiffer.


----------



## fab4

beij said:


> Just received my 52cm FM066 from Hongfu via Pudding Luo. Finish is superb, weight is 860grms with hanger. Internal cabling is a bit tricky but once completed shifting is fine. Tried to upload pictures via iPad but waisted 1/2hr getting nowhere so will post frame and final finish photos tomorrow with an initial test ride report. Frame is a work of art, just beautiful!



Post some pics and ride report when you're done building it. Thanks.


----------



## Boombaux

In 5 or so days I'm going to be ordering the FM098 with seatpost, fork, 50c rims, handlebars and 2 bottle cages around $1100 shipped. how much more do you guys think id need for a complete build? not looking for top end stuff, just enough to make it decent and under 17 or 18 lbs. any help would be really appreciated!


----------



## beij

*Fm066*

Did 80kms along Great Ocean rd, good mix of climbing and flats. Frame is not as stiff as the FM028 but that actualy suits me, soaks up the road and feels very smooth. Definately flies up the climbs. As buit with mix of Sram Red/Force and Stans Alpha came to 7kgs - just over 15pds. I've given it to a local expert rider for feedback on the frame and will add his comments. 

https://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh558/beij08/2012-07-16184321-1.jpg
https://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh558/beij08/2012-07-21091918.jpg


----------



## chompychomps

Boombaux said:


> In 5 or so days I'm going to be ordering the FM098 with seatpost, fork, 50c rims, handlebars and 2 bottle cages around $1100 shipped. how much more do you guys think id need for a complete build? not looking for top end stuff, just enough to make it decent and under 17 or 18 lbs. any help would be really appreciated!


Hey boom, that depends on your indiana jones skills on digging up ebay and stuff. 

U can look over to the hot deals section for posts on good deals, right now there's some TDF promotions on some sites, so perhaps you can take opportunity of that..


----------



## f3rg

tunedis95 said:


> ]


I hope you closed the quick-release on your front brake before you started riding it.


----------



## Astrogoth

*FM039 .vs FM066: Picking a Chinese frame*

I want a lightweight carbon road bike. I'd like a few of the modern features like integrated cabling, the glossy carbon look, and integrated seat post at a low cost. That led me to two choices:

FM039 

or

FM066


Now, neither frame has all I would like feature wise. A compromise is in order.
The 066 is lighter (I think) but more expensive. The 039 has more build up advice 
and pictures but the 066 has an ongoing Group Buy to help with the high price and may be the better frame technology wise as it uses a stronger kind of carbon fiber.


So I ask you, what do you think?


----------



## rbart4506

f3rg said:


> I hope you closed the quick-release on your front brake before you started riding it.


Why??

I do that all the time when I put my carbon tubulars on...I have the brakes setup for the aluminum clinchers and the carbon rims are wider...So I simply flip the QR open and the brakes work perfectly for the carbon rims...

Most racers do the same thing...


----------



## Astrogoth

The delete button is hiding from me.


----------



## IRFilter

Looking at these Chinese carbon threads have been very inspiring. I had a question for you guys who have SRAM groupsets. I was looking to get a frame with a BB30 bottom bracket and groupset SRAM RIVALS or FORCE. then get the BB30 to GXP adapter to make it all fit. Is that the right way to do it?

how did you get the rivals to fit. from what i have read there is no GXP bottom bracket and adapters are how you make it all work. As you can probably tell im very new to this, and a little confused by bottom brackets to say the least. 

Any help would be very appreciated!!!!


----------



## svard75

IRFilter said:


> Looking at these Chinese carbon threads have been very inspiring. I had a question for you guys who have SRAM groupsets. I was looking to get a frame with a BB30 bottom bracket and groupset SRAM RIVALS or FORCE. then get the BB30 to GXP adapter to make it all fit. Is that the right way to do it?
> 
> how did you get the rivals to fit. from what i have read there is no GXP bottom bracket and adapters are how you make it all work. As you can probably tell im very new to this, and a little confused by bottom brackets to say the least.
> 
> Any help would be very appreciated!!!!


You can order most frames with either BSA or BB30. My assumption on why someone would get a BB30 then use an adapter is they already have a gxp crankset but would like to go to BB30 down the road. These frames are cost effective enough to just purchase what you want now. Stock is sometimes limited with a BB30 whereas BSA is more readily available.


----------



## rbart4506

That's what i love about these frames! You can get them BSA...I am not about to give up my Shimano cranks and BB...I was looking at a Specialized Tarmac for next season and everything is BB30...


----------



## chompychomps

Does anyone run a compact 6750 ultegra with a fm098 from deng fu?


----------



## kip.duff

Astrogoth said:


> I want a lightweight carbon road bike. I'd like a few of the modern features like integrated cabling, the glossy carbon look, and integrated seat post at a low cost. That led me to two choices:
> 
> FM039
> 
> or
> 
> FM066
> 
> 
> Now, neither frame has all I would like feature wise. A compromise is in order.
> The 066 is lighter (I think) but more expensive. The 039 has more build up advice
> and pictures but the 066 has an ongoing Group Buy to help with the high price and may be the better frame technology wise as it uses a stronger kind of carbon fiber.
> 
> 
> So I ask you, what do you think?


I just put together my new HongFu FM039, 56cm, non-ISP, Cannondale Hollowgram BB30 crankset, Dura Ace, 38mm carbon wheels (see pics on page 83). I think it's right at 16lbs- will give precise weight when my hanging digital scale arrives from Hong Kong. The bare frame is 1179g- heard reports that FM066SL is 860g! My only complaint on the FM039 is the weight. I took components off my Canondale CAAD7. I was ignorant of the weight of my CDale- it's really quite a masterpiece. I don't have exact numbers yet, but I think the CDale is noticeably lighter- I didn't do enough research prior: though the FM039 weight would be about the same or lighter. Other than that, I prefer the HongFu. I opted not to get the FM066 because I didn't like the way it looked, and I like the aero seat post. If the FM039 is offered in a "super light" version, I might get it and sell my current version. I really like the look of the 039, and they have got the bugs out: seat doesn't slip, cables slide right thru the frame with no problem whatsoever- RD cable goes from steerer to RD hanger area. Concocted an PVC pipe installer tube assy from Home Depot, put the head bearing set lower race in boiling water, placed it on the fork with a little Phills Tenacious Grease, wacked the assembly (PVC pipe first) on the concrete once (medium force), and it was seated perfect. The bore for the BB30 bearings has enough interference so that the bearings can be tapped in with moderate (not potentially harmful) force- seemed identical to the CDale bore diameter. I like the handling of the 039: can take hands off handlebars to sit up more easily than the CDale.

What's the weight like for the FM098's? Why have you ruled them out? I think the weight is about the same 039 v 098- I just preferred look of the 039. If I were starting over again, I would take closer look at weights. Not easy: specs seem to vary on Chinese websites for same model. Best source for weight info is probably these forums. I got my daughter an FM015 a year ago- lighter, cheaper, and superb (size 49cm). 

Have fun with your choice!


----------



## WTFcyclist

*round-the-world record with Chinese cyclocross carbon frame??*

Does anybody here ride this frame (Miracle Trade MC024, Ican SP-AC024)?

Mike Hall used this open mold cyclocross frame for his round-the-word record.








Yorkshireman Mike Hall arrived in Greenwich just before one o'clock this afternoon after smashing the round-the-world bike ride record. The 31-year-old from Harrogate took around 91 days, 18 hours to circle the world from west to east, averaging almost 200 miles per day. As well as crossing the finish line on the Queen's Diamond Jubilee weekend, today happens to be Hall's birthday.
Mike Hall smashes round-the-world record in a time of 91 days, 18 hours | road.cc | Road cycling news, Bike reviews, Commuting, Leisure riding, Sportives and more

It's the same frame as this On-One Dirty Disco Cyclocross Rival.
On-One Dirty Disco Cyclocross Rival


----------



## zophiel

What headsets are people putting into these type of frames?

I am looking at a HF-FM006+FK002 set at the moment.

Been lurking about the forum but not posted before.

Any help would be good thanks.


----------



## Astrogoth

Most pay the $15 extra and use the frame makers set. That way you *know* it'll fit.


----------



## chompychomps

Hey asagoth, nice to see you here too! That skull is too distinct! Haha


----------



## typ993

rbart4506 said:


> Why??
> 
> I do that all the time when I put my carbon tubulars on...I have the brakes setup for the aluminum clinchers and the carbon rims are wider...So I simply flip the QR open and the brakes work perfectly for the carbon rims...
> 
> Most racers do the same thing...


This is off-topic, but using the same pads for aluminum and carbon wheels is NOT a good idea. The pads pick up little metal slivers from the aluminum rim and then guess what they do when you switch over to the carbon wheels.


----------



## Astrogoth

I do stand out in a crowd don't I? Howdy!


----------



## chompychomps

Must be the DP. Haha.


----------



## Crawf

WTFcyclist said:


> Does anybody here ride this frame (Miracle Trade MC024, Ican SP-AC024)?
> 
> Mike Hall used this open mold cyclocross frame for his round-the-word record.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yorkshireman Mike Hall arrived in Greenwich just before one o'clock this afternoon after smashing the round-the-world bike ride record. The 31-year-old from Harrogate took around 91 days, 18 hours to circle the world from west to east, averaging almost 200 miles per day. As well as crossing the finish line on the Queen's Diamond Jubilee weekend, today happens to be Hall's birthday.
> Mike Hall smashes round-the-world record in a time of 91 days, 18 hours | road.cc | Road cycling news, Bike reviews, Commuting, Leisure riding, Sportives and more
> 
> It's the same frame as this On-One Dirty Disco Cyclocross Rival.
> On-One Dirty Disco Cyclocross Rival



Yeah I commute on one of those. It's solid.


----------



## rbart4506

typ993 said:


> This is off-topic, but using the same pads for aluminum and carbon wheels is NOT a good idea. The pads pick up little metal slivers from the aluminum rim and then guess what they do when you switch over to the carbon wheels.


Do I sound like a noob 

I of course swap the pads...

I'm in the process of buying a 2nd frame for both my wife and myself so I don't have to do the swappage...One bike for training, one bike for racing...


----------



## FalseBuddha

arevuar said:


> FM039-ISP, 58, mat black, 105 groupset


You mind if I ask how much you paid for the frame and fork after shipping? I'm trying to get a 58cm, BB30, UD matte FM039-ISP, but there's no price listed on the HongFu website and I haven't gotten a response to my emails in over a week.


----------



## kip.duff

FalseBuddha said:


> You mind if I ask how much you paid for the frame and fork after shipping? I'm trying to get a 58cm, BB30, UD matte FM039-ISP, but there's no price listed on the HongFu website and I haven't gotten a response to my emails in over a week.


I just received mine 2 weeks ago- like what your interested in (except mine is size 56cm, non-ISP ). $530 + $85 shipping.


----------



## ffemoeller

*oops*

Sorry for breaking the no group buy posting rule! New guy mistake!


----------



## canemaster

Wanting to pull the trigger on a super light FM066 from DengFu.
I sent them an email asking about the price and have yet to get a response. Anyone know?

Also I'm a 185lbs rider. Any concerns or should it hold up fine?


----------



## beij

canemaster said:


> Wanting to pull the trigger on a super light FM066 from DengFu.
> I sent them an email asking about the price and have yet to get a response. Anyone know?
> 
> Also I'm a 185lbs rider. Any concerns or should it hold up fine?


I've been riding mine for the past week, not as stiff as my FM028 but I really like the smooth feel however I only weigh 165lbs. I did a group ride on Wednesday and we had a sprint up a short hill, managed that no problems and didn't notice any flex at all. I do notice the weight difference, feels like I can pedal in a higher gear. Hope that helps, happy to answer any other questions.


----------



## canemaster

beij said:


> I've been riding mine for the past week,* not as stiff as my FM028 *but I really like the smooth feel however I only weigh 165lbs. I did a group ride on Wednesday and we had a sprint up a short hill, managed that no problems and didn't notice any flex at all. I do notice the weight difference, feels like I can pedal in a higher gear. Hope that helps, happy to answer any other questions.


Whoa really? Stiffness is my main concern/priority. I would be using this for crits and local races and I don't want to feel any flex at all. 

Which frame would you personally use for races?

And thanks for the reply :thumbsup:


----------



## beij

canemaster said:


> Whoa really? Stiffness is my main concern/priority. I would be using this for crits and local races and I don't want to feel any flex at all.
> 
> Which frame would you personally use for races?
> 
> And thanks for the reply :thumbsup:


I don't race on the road, I race MTB. I've done a 4 hour hilly grind and 1.5 hr fast ride and prefer the FM066 in both instances. I don't notice flex when I sprint on the frame but feel less vibrations from the road. So I like it because it is comfortable and great for the rides I do - especially the hills, but it probably won't be seeing too many road races, not because I think it is not suited to racing but because I don't do road racing. A local gun rider had a spin, he rides a BMC and said if felt lighter but did not notice any flex. For me it makes me want to ride those long training rides.
Cheers


----------



## redmr2_man

canemaster said:


> Whoa really? Stiffness is my main concern/priority. I would be using this for crits and local races and I don't want to feel any flex at all.
> 
> Which frame would you personally use for races?
> 
> And thanks for the reply :thumbsup:


+1. Based on weight I figured it would be a bone jarring stiff frame. When something feels good over the rough roads, it's usually loosing stiffness somewhere.

I was hoping to hear it was super stiff


----------



## canemaster

Yea I'm probably going to get the FM028 now.. I don't mind sacrificing a little weight for stiffness.


----------



## beij

I feel like I have misrepresented this frame. I described it as less stiff due to it being smoother than the FM028. I do not notice any flex when sprinting. I can ascend in a higher gear and have riden faster for longer in my group ride. Overall I have gained comfort and performance over the FM028. I'm not a road racer nor an expert by any means - Iam a 42 yr old 165lb "enthusiast" who races mtb occasionally, so others will be able make a better judgment regards suitability for crits etc. Looking forward to hearing other reviews, anyone else got theirs yet?


----------



## twiggy

zender said:


> Interesting that Nashbar sells an off-brand bike with wavy fork and seatstays similar to the older Pinarello style. All external cables though.


Opera is actually a Sub-brand of Pinarello... they used to sell frames Under the Opera Brand 8-ish years ago!


----------



## tarzan13

Does anyone know which frame this is?

Specialized S-Works Carbon Venge Replica Frameset - Bikes/Cycle/Cycling - 54cm | eBay


----------



## dr. locktopus

looks like FR-315


----------



## timc03

*Updates*

Hi All,

Is it possible for people to provide some updates on their builds 6, 12, 18 24 months on? I look back at the awesome bikes over the many years these threads have been going on and would love to know how they are traveling. How about the following info for some who have built up these bikes - 

Months old; estimated number of KMs; issues encountered post-build; things you would do differently/mods you have made.

Can't wait!


----------



## danny87

canemaster said:


> Whoa really? Stiffness is my main concern/priority. I would be using this for crits and local races and I don't want to feel any flex at all.
> 
> Which frame would you personally use for races?
> 
> And thanks for the reply :thumbsup:


Hi I've got a FM015, non-isp, SRAM Rival, Mavic Ksyrium Elites, probably about 7 to 7.5kg. Not got accurate scales sorry. But if you want a stiff bike I can personally recommend it  I think for the money the FM028 & FM015 are the best value! FM028 is a more relaxed frame good for sportives long relaxed rides etc. Due to taller headtube shorter top tube, slightly more relaxed angles etc. The newer frames too expensive IMO and not exactly glitch free with seat post issues etc.


----------



## kbfore

tarzan13 said:


> Does anyone know which frame this is?
> 
> Specialized S-Works Carbon Venge Replica Frameset - Bikes/Cycle/Cycling - 54cm | eBay


I was under the impression that the FM098 AERO ROAD FM098-DengFuBieks was the Venge.


----------



## Crappymonkey

kbfore said:


> I was under the impression that the FM098 AERO ROAD FM098-DengFuBieks was the Venge.


The person who listed the bike on Ebay most likely put Venge in the title so that he would get more views. The FM098 is currently the most Venge-like frame.


----------



## canemaster

danny87 said:


> Hi I've got a FM015, non-isp, SRAM Rival, Mavic Ksyrium Elites, probably about 7 to 7.5kg. Not got accurate scales sorry. But if you want a stiff bike I can personally recommend it  I think for the money the FM028 & FM015 are the best value! FM028 is a more relaxed frame good for sportives long relaxed rides etc. Due to taller headtube shorter top tube, slightly more relaxed angles etc. The newer frames too expensive IMO and not exactly glitch free with seat post issues etc.


Yea I'm leaning more towards the FM028 but the 066 is sooo light :mad2: How much is the normal quote for the FM028 (with fork and seatpost)?


----------



## polarbill1999

sorry, misposted


----------



## polarbill1999

First time posting. I am thinking about buying a bike frame/fork from one of the chinese carbon places and was wondering if anybody has any experience with the Hong fu FM006. What I am looking for is a more relaxed geometry for centuries. I am trying to find something like a Giant Defy, Felt Z series, CR1, Roubaix, etc... Are there any chinese carbon frames that are similar to this style of bike? I am not going to do any racing so having a full out race geomtry probably isn't the best for me. 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## cs1

polarbill1999 said:


> First time posting. I am thinking about buying a bike frame/fork from one of the chinese carbon places and was wondering if anybody has any experience with the Hong fu FM006. What I am looking for is a more relaxed geometry for centuries. I am trying to find something like a Giant Defy, Felt Z series, CR1, Roubaix, etc... Are there any chinese carbon frames that are similar to this style of bike? I am not going to do any racing so having a full out race geomtry probably isn't the best for me.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


I was wondering the same thing. Are any of the Chinese road frames set up for flat bars, geometry that is?


----------



## tircky

*FM039 for*

I have followed this series for a while and always thought I'd buy a FM015. I have an ageing Bianchi, nice bike but getting long in the tooth, slightly too large and heavy frame/fork. After seeing this, I have definitely change to FM039. I like that it is not an exact copy of anything, ok touches of Venge but less pronounced. I really like the 3k Matte finish. I have already designed some decals to match my riding group.

Bout the only difference in setup will be Chorus 11 speed, and tubular wheels (cause lighter and better heat dispensation, and Aussie flag.

Thanks for posting the photos, hope the seat issue is fixed, I'm sure there is a way to secure it. Hope mine works out just a nice





Tompelan said:


> After sometimes keep posting in this thread, I’ve finally reached 10posts, so I can post the photos of my FM039 build here.
> 
> Thanks to this thread, (well 5.0 actually) so I decided to pull a trigger on ordering the FM-039 for myself after reading some reviews here. I bought it on November 2011 and finish built on December 2011, right on Christmas Day, but up until now I haven’t ridden it yet due to the seat post problem. It kept slipping down because the seat post diameter is much smaller than the seat tube diameter, the gap is about 0.5mm. When I over torque, the allowance space (whatever it called) on the seat tube was bended (see photo below)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because of my busy days and the long holiday in China for CNY, I managed to contact hongfu about this issue on Feb 2012 and they did send me a new seat post on April 2012 but it didn’t help because the seat post is just exactly the same size with the one come with the frame.
> 
> I’ve been trying to find solution to read across this thread and post some questions here and thanks a lot guys, there are a lot of nice people here to answer my question about this issue. Up until I write this, I haven’t fixed the problem yet, as I broke the seat clamp few days ago and waiting for Hongfu to send me new seat clamps. I've tried the coke can as a shim, a thick aluminum foil sheet and carbon paste, it helps but it doesn't prevent the "allowance space" on the seat tube not being bended. After I receive the new seat clamp, I will put all those thing together and see if it is still bended or not. I will keep you updated guys.
> 
> My build is using Ultegra groupset, 3T handle bar and stem, specialized toupe saddle, 50mm clincher wheel with novatec hubs, schwalbe ultremo zx, jagwire cable and adjuster for shifter cable is needed. I called this bike Transformer 039 as I managed to get some 3D sticker of transformer logo. Btw, I have spent US$2400 for this bike and the weight is 7.5kgs.
> 
> Any questions regarding tips and trick of building this FM039, just drop me a PM, I will do my best to help you guys.


----------



## ericTheHalf

I've got an FM028
First ride was Aug 21 2011, so just over 11 months
3,800 mile, 250,000 ft ascent, 266 hours
Issues or things I'd do different... Nothing as far as the frame is concerned.

-Eric



timc03 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Is it possible for people to provide some updates on their builds 6, 12, 18 24 months on? I look back at the awesome bikes over the many years these threads have been going on and would love to know how they are traveling. How about the following info for some who have built up these bikes -
> 
> Months old; estimated number of KMs; issues encountered post-build; things you would do differently/mods you have made.
> 
> Can't wait!


----------



## nhall

*Decals*

After spending countless hours reading these forums I have decided to order a Flyxii frame:
FLX-FR-315 

Looking for a decent white decal kit, anyone know where I could find one?

Thanks for any help.


----------



## chompychomps

nhall said:


> After spending countless hours reading these forums I have decided to order a Flyxii frame:
> FLX-FR-315
> 
> Looking for a decent white decal kit, anyone know where I could find one?
> 
> Thanks for any help.


For decals, I would recommend marco, check it out on this site! Countless of members on various forums have used his services!

*not affiliated in any way* 

http://designstickers.blogspot.ca/s...:00&max-results=10&start=20&by-date=false&m=1


----------



## nhall

Where did you get the decal kit?


----------



## chompychomps

Use the link to his website on the above post. Basically this http://designstickers.blogspot.ca/s...:00&max-results=10&start=20&by-date=false&m=1


----------



## JaeP

*Question about FREE shipping?*

I'm about to pull the trigger on a FR-315 frame. One seller has one frame listed for $490 with free shipping and the same frame for $459 plus $80 shipping. What's up with that?


----------



## rokh

I've ordered an FLX-FR-315 directly from flyxii, they charged 480$ total for the frame and shipping. When i placed my order, some cheaper fr315 sets on ebay were listed either without seatpostclamp or headset that made them 10-20$ cheaper than other listings


----------



## jerthehair

JaeP said:


> I'm about to pull the trigger on a FR-315 frame. One seller has one frame listed for $490 with free shipping and the same frame for $459 plus $80 shipping. What's up with that?


You won't regret the frame choice. Super stiff and very light, mine in a 54cm (55.5 effective was 999 grams) fork was 380 grams cut. Total weight with heavy Shimano MTB pedals, RXL cage and Bontrager 4W computer is 6877gms

Internal cable routing is super smooth

Full SRAM Force and Ritchey everything else.

Check my first post (pg79 of this thread for my flickr link as i have only 3 posts I can't post a new link to the finished pics)


----------



## jmalcolm

anyone taken stock of a FM066 yet? I have one on order, (probably have another couple of weeks before it arrives). curious to see if anyone has any experience on this one yet.


----------



## beij

Uploaded a short video of the new FM066 on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9osk1kJmzCE


----------



## davidof

My FM028 build

FMO28 Chinese Carbon Bike Finished - YouTube


----------



## jmalcolm

Beij, thanks is extremely helpful. Particularly that section where you covered the bottom bracket cable routing. Looks like I better order a set of the Gore Pro Cable Systems with the liners.


----------



## beij

No worries, be good to hear what others think of the frame.
Cheers


----------



## vaetuning

*Miracle Trade / Miracle Bikes*

Hi there

Does anybody know of any problems with the above company / companies??

I have been dealing with a guy calling himself Peter Pan, and now my mails come back with a notice that the account no longer exists!?!

I have contacted other mails from the above company (Lisa, Jack Chen and so on) - but no luck!!

I had a brief telephone conversation with someone calling herself Anna, who told me not to worry - she promised to get back to me, but has not done so!!

I have sent them quite an amount of money, and I'm getting quite nervous!!

With Regards

Vaetuning


----------



## coolfire

*Hongfu Paypal*

Hi guys, I'm about to get a fm066 from hongfu. the paypal address they gave me to make the payment is cobychao @ sohu.com; is this legit? Thanks a lot


----------



## Liquizen

*Newbie.*

Hi everyone. 

This has gotta be the forum thread of ALL forum threads. 

I have trawled through the posts, getting grief from the Mrs for giving it more attention than her. 
Anyways, I am after a bit of help please. 
Who are the best sellers to buy frames from in the far east?
I have heard of Hongfu and Dengfu, but are there any others that you have bought from that are decent?

I have seen some frames on ebay from sellers A_baygoods and Carbon_bicycle also. 
Does anyone have any knowledge of these?
Is there anything I need to be careful of when buying abroad? 
This will be my first ever bike build. I have a mountain bike, so have decided to try a road bike. 

Any help would be most appreciated. 

Rgds
Neil


----------



## beij

coolfire said:


> Hi guys, I'm about to get a fm066 from hongfu. the paypal address they gave me to make the payment is cobychao @ sohu.com; is this legit? Thanks a lot


Hi, don't know about others but I have bought a couple of frames and other items from Hongfu and that is not the address they gave me. They may have a couple of PayPal addresses but which site did you go to? If your not sure I can recommend Pudding Luo from Hongfu - [email protected]
Cheers


----------



## vaetuning

*Miracle Trade / Miracle Bikes*

Hi there

Does anybody know of any problems with the above company / companies??

I have been dealing with a guy calling himself Peter Pan, and now my mails come back with a notice that the account no longer exists!?!

I have contacted other mails from the above company (Lisa, Jack Chen and so on) - but no luck!!

I had a brief telephone conversation with someone calling herself Anna, who told me not to worry - she promised to get back to me, but has not done so!!

I have sent them quite an amount of money, and I'm getting rather nervous!!

With Regards

Vaetuning


----------



## notaname

Looking for some help here...

someone could please identify this chinese frame model?

thanks!

img689.imageshack.us/img689/7889/picture008eke.jpg


----------



## Black37

Fm028 isp


----------



## ffemoeller

Black37 said:


> Fm028 isp


Yup. Dengfu has them.


----------



## coolfire

Thanks, beij. I got the paypal address from enquiring from 'Jane' of the 'other GB forum'. She uses the email, janejian(A)hongfu-bikes.cn


----------



## hotflash

I ordered the FR-315 from a_baygoods (same guy/company as flyxii.com) on e-bay a few weeks ago.
This is my first roadbike, and my first ble build. I have spent days reading this thread, yet I have a few questions..

Since im short on cash, and I dont have much experience, im looking for a cheap, durable wheelset. Anyone? I read something somewhere about some wheels not recommended for full carbonframes like mine.. 
Also there is a square hole between the two holes to attach the front bottleholders. Why?? 
I will post pictures when I come home from work.


----------



## cried at birth

It is the one I have; here is a build thread: 
http://www.velobuild.com/component/...bonzone-and-yishun-combined-at-5-7kg?Itemid=0


----------



## hotflash

hotflash said:


> I ordered the FR-315 from a_baygoods (same guy/company as flyxii.com) on e-bay a few weeks ago.
> This is my first roadbike, and my first ble build. I have spent days reading this thread, yet I have a few questions..
> 
> Since im short on cash, and I dont have much experience, im looking for a cheap, durable wheelset. Anyone? I read something somewhere about some wheels not recommended for full carbonframes like mine..
> Also there is a square hole between the two holes to attach the front bottleholders. Why??
> I will post pictures when I come home from work.



Having a second look at the frame I found that there is a hole between the screw holes for the bottle cage as mentioned, in front of the back wheel on the right dropout and just below the front derallieur mount. (see pics). Whats their function??

Im thinking of buying these: Fulcrum Racing 5 Clincher Wheelset 2012 | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com

or these: Techlite Road Alloy Clincher Wheelset 2012 | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com

Any thoughts?


----------



## dr. locktopus

I'm assuming it has something to do with Di2? Use the down tube bottle mount as a battery mount and run wires into the frame there?


----------



## hotflash

so I should plug them..?


----------



## ms6073

hotflash said:


> so I should plug them..?


Those are the wiring ports for electronic shift systems (Shimano Di2/Campy EPS) and if you are not running an electric group, I suggest you either tape them with 3m protective film or find a source for the rubber covers that Shimano supplies for Di2 so they are still useable.


----------



## _Helix_

*Hong Fu PayPal Account*



coolfire said:


> Hi guys, I'm about to get a fm066 from hongfu. the paypal address they gave me to make the payment is cobychao @ sohu.com; is this legit? Thanks a lot


When ordering through the group buy,that was the address Jane gave me, and it went through without problem. Still waiting (impatiently) for a tracking number. Hopefully this week.


----------



## pietervdw

How bought two bike "kits" from e_baygoods aka a_baygoods aka carbonzone.

Havent had any issues ito build or ride. Communication is as smooth as it could be across the language barrier.

Used paypal on ebay for the transactions and didn't have any delivery troubles.

BTW remember to ask for EMS otherwise they will put it on a ship that takes months to reach its destination #rookiemistake


----------



## Jayzzzzz

I have bought my FM015 from hongfu not long ago, and was trying to install a 2012 centaur groupset in. and i realised the front brake caliper's thread is too short for the allen bolt to fix in from behind, and the rear brake caliper's allen bolt doesn't even fit into the hole. Did anyone have such experience? or i am doing something not right.... i have been reading the 5.0 thread for awhile and didnt seem like anyone has come across such problem... i was quite surprise because it is just an "easy part" to install for the bike.


----------



## ffemoeller

Jayzzzzz said:


> I have bought my FM015 from hongfu not long ago, and was trying to install a 2012 centaur groupset in. and i realised the front brake caliper's thread is too short for the allen bolt to fix in from behind, and the rear brake caliper's allen bolt doesn't even fit into the hole. Did anyone have such experience? or i am doing something not right.... i have been reading the 5.0 thread for awhile and didnt seem like anyone has come across such problem... i was quite surprise because it is just an "easy part" to install for the bike.


Uh oh! I was planning the same build! Im pretty sure you can get longer brake caliper nuts at Ribble. Now as far as it not even fitting in the hole...I hope that's just a fluke!


----------



## Jayzzzzz

its not so much the nut's length (centaur's set comes with a 25mm nut) but when i put the nut in from the back of the fork, it goes to a certain point and it is stopped by a cap inside. i might bring it to the LBS and see if they can make the thread longer instead.

as to the rear one... after a few nudging i seem to be able to force the nut in halfway, might have to sand the nut just slightly for it to fit. i checked the nut on my old bike and it is so tight that i can't even unscrew it. so i assume it is normal that way? if anyone can clarify?

(the red/blk 2012 centaur looks super hot with the matt FM015) i will post up some photos after i have reach the 10 min. posts.


----------



## ffemoeller

Please do!


----------



## rbart4506

Had the same issue with my rear brake on my FM028, I assume it was the paint/clearcoat...I got the dremel out and lightly sanded the hole until the nut fit in...Might be the same issue with the front fork...

Had to sand the inside of the headset cups due to overspray so the bearings would fit in nice...No biggie on either front...


----------



## rayovolks

John_B said:


> I've emailed Cyclingyong yesterday. I'm interested with the Dogma 65.1, they said they will have the Dogma 65.1 mold within 2-3 months!
> 
> Setup:
> Chinarello Dogma 65.1
> Campy Record 11s groupo 2012
> Speedplay
> Cinelli 2
> Chinese Carbon Clincher


If you didn't know already, everything sold there is counterfeit. Do your research on that source first. "Customer service" seems suspect as well.


----------



## John_B

rayovolks said:


> If you didn't know already, everything sold there is counterfeit. Do your research on that source first. "Customer service" seems suspect as well.


Yeah, I knew that already. I know some of the members here bought frames from them and so far with no issues with the frame or the headset. Also, I've seen a few with a broken fork and one packed with newspaper (poor fork quality on that one and a bad build on the other due to sanding to fit the crown)... I'll take the risk of my first build. I've gathered enough information this week. And of course, I'll be up front with anyone about the chinarello of mine


----------



## rayovolks

Hey your money, your bike. Good luck with Wilson or Peter or whatever they call themselves these days.


----------



## Crappymonkey

Oh my ... BMC lookalike from LT Bike


----------



## canemaster

I couldn't find it in here but is there a bad reputation for Chinese BB30 frames?


----------



## tarzan13

Crappymonkey said:


> Oh my ... BMC lookalike from LT Bike


Please keep us posted on frame quality, build up process, ride comfort & flex etc.


----------



## zigmeister

Jayzzzzz said:


> I have bought my FM015 from hongfu not long ago, and was trying to install a 2012 centaur groupset in. and i realised the front brake caliper's thread is too short for the allen bolt to fix in from behind, and the rear brake caliper's allen bolt doesn't even fit into the hole. Did anyone have such experience? or i am doing something not right.... i have been reading the 5.0 thread for awhile and didnt seem like anyone has come across such problem... i was quite surprise because it is just an "easy part" to install for the bike.


Yes you are. A good brake set comes with different length bolts to accommodate all the different depths of mounts for brakes on various forks/brands.

You just get a longer bolt and move on.

If the nut is long enough and the hole is filled with paint/junk, then just get a drill bit and put it in a ream it out a bit...no big deal. All these chinese bikes pretty much have diameter hold issues from paint/clear coat and you might have to do some fine sanding/tweaking to get it right.


----------



## zigmeister

canemaster said:


> I couldn't find it in here but is there a bad reputation for Chinese BB30 frames?


Yes, no, maybe. Does that help?

The manufacturers go about the diameter for different BBs in different way.

Some have a fixed BB shell, then epoxy an inner shell for BSA or BB30 to get the diameter correct.

Some will just bore/ream out the BSA threads and make it BB30 diameter.

My FM098 was the bore out method.

Just depends, I think they each have their plusses/minuses the way they go about it. The bore method, well, if the guy bores it out too much, the bearing might not be real tight when pressed. The solution would be Loctite 609, like other BB30 frames/adapters use in case to freeze it in place and stop any creaking.

The other method, epoxying in the inner piece, well, the epoxy could maybe come loose as the epoxy ages? I've never heard of people having issues with either setup though. So it likely just comes to preference.

I haven't had any issues with my BB30.

With that said, my two cents. Since the Chinese are all over the place on their QC and who knows what you get from one frame to the next, I would say if I had to do it again, stick with BSA. It really is a no brainer for install, no worries about loctite, diameter issues etc...there is a slight penalty for stiffness and weight of course over BB30, but nobody would really notice I would surmise.

This just takes one more thing out of the equation for them to screw up IMO.

I've had both BSA frames and BB30 from Chinese companies, both were fine. But simplicity goes to the BSA because it is a pre-threaded shell, or an inner shell epoxied in place. Some other company machines the pieces, or maybe they do, for the BB, much more accurate. Compare that to some guy with a drill in his hands and a rig reaming out a BB30 diameter from a BSA shell with threads, well, who knows what you get. I was lucky, mine is fine and I've had no issues with it.

I really hate the look of BSA/screw-in bearings sticking out of the side of the BB shell though. I'm really a pressfit 86 or BB30 kind of guy.


----------



## saubbie23

Been lurking on these threads for a while, looking at pulling the trigger on an FM015 and wanted to get some thoughts on fit. I am looking to get an aggressive fit, did the Competitive Cyclist fit calculator, and these are the numbers I got:

Seat tube range c-c 51.8 - 52.3 
Seat tube range c-t 53.4 - 53.9
Top tube length 52.6 - 53.0
Stem Length 10.7 - 11.3
BB-Saddle Position 68.4 - 70.4
Saddle-Handlebar 50.8 - 51.4
Saddle Setback 4.9 - 5.3

It looks like the 53 would be a better fit, just wanted to check and see if others have similar proportions/recommendations on a size. I am 5'10", normal proportions, can post the inputs I put in the fit calculator if need be. Thanks!


----------



## allenpg

Any recommendations for a frame that might fit my wife who is 5'-0" and rides a Trek WSD frame with a ~50cm TT and 650 wheels? Thanks!

-Pete


----------



## kimt

Do you guys get alot of errors in this thread ? Sometimes i cant even see new replys!


----------



## kimt

*My new FM039 Hong Fu*

5 weeks ago i order a FM039 from Hong Fu, I got the frame a week ago and now i finally got it ready. 

FM039 UD matt size 54
K-force light crank
Rival group. 

Seat will be changed to black. Im very happy with the result.

Weight: 6.63KG without pedals and with uncut fork and seatpost.


----------



## canemaster

zigmeister said:


> Yes, no, maybe. Does that help?
> 
> The manufacturers go about the diameter for different BBs in different way.
> 
> Some have a fixed BB shell, then epoxy an inner shell for BSA or BB30 to get the diameter correct.
> 
> Some will just bore/ream out the BSA threads and make it BB30 diameter.
> 
> My FM098 was the bore out method.
> 
> Just depends, I think they each have their plusses/minuses the way they go about it. The bore method, well, if the guy bores it out too much, the bearing might not be real tight when pressed. The solution would be Loctite 609, like other BB30 frames/adapters use in case to freeze it in place and stop any creaking.
> 
> The other method, epoxying in the inner piece, well, the epoxy could maybe come loose as the epoxy ages? I've never heard of people having issues with either setup though. So it likely just comes to preference.
> 
> I haven't had any issues with my BB30.
> 
> With that said, my two cents. Since the Chinese are all over the place on their QC and who knows what you get from one frame to the next, I would say if I had to do it again, stick with BSA. It really is a no brainer for install, no worries about loctite, diameter issues etc...there is a slight penalty for stiffness and weight of course over BB30, but nobody would really notice I would surmise.
> 
> This just takes one more thing out of the equation for them to screw up IMO.
> 
> I've had both BSA frames and BB30 from Chinese companies, both were fine. But simplicity goes to the BSA because it is a pre-threaded shell, or an inner shell epoxied in place. Some other company machines the pieces, or maybe they do, for the BB, much more accurate. Compare that to some guy with a drill in his hands and a rig reaming out a BB30 diameter from a BSA shell with threads, well, who knows what you get. I was lucky, mine is fine and I've had no issues with it.
> 
> I really hate the look of BSA/screw-in bearings sticking out of the side of the BB shell though. I'm really a pressfit 86 or BB30 kind of guy.


Thank you for the response! I think I'll go with a BB30 since I already have cranksets for that size and no one has seemed to be complaining much. Now I just need to know if there is a weight limit for the super light.



kimt said:


> Do you guys get alot of errors in this thread ? Sometimes i cant even see new replys!


Change your "display mode" on the top right of the thread.



kimt said:


> 5 weeks ago i order a FM039 from Hong Fu, I got the frame a week ago and now i finally got it ready.
> 
> FM039 UD matt size 54
> K-force light crank
> Rival group.
> 
> Seat will be changed to black. Im very happy with the result.
> 
> Weight: 6.63KG without pedals and with uncut fork and seatpost.


Wow that is nice!


----------



## Tranzition

Been reading through as much as these threads as possible. Great stuff!

Question: For those who ordered custom painted frames, what program did you use to design your paint scheme?

And if you just just used photoshop, what image did you use as your "blank canvas" (for the fm028, specifically?) I've been trying to find a large enough pic to start tweaking...

Thanks!


----------



## m4xi

hi guys!
Has anyone seen the new 2013 model of honfus TT?
It´s called FM089 and looks amazing!!!


Where did you buy your bike components? do you also have a cheap supplier?

Thanks,
Steve


----------



## m4xi

*fm089*

hi guys!
Has anyone seen the new 2013 model of honfus TT?
It´s called FM086 and looks amazing!!!


Where did you buy your bike components? do you also have a cheap supplier?

Thanks,
Steve


----------



## kimt

m4xi said:


> hi guys!
> Has anyone seen the new 2013 model of honfus TT?
> It´s called FM089 and looks amazing!!!
> 
> 
> Where did you buy your bike components? do you also have a cheap supplier?
> 
> Thanks,
> Steve


Dude.. FM089 is a Cyclocross frame.


----------



## m4xi

@kimt
I already changed it to fm086.


----------



## zender

m4xi said:


> @kimt
> I already changed it to fm086.


Yeah, there are posts of it going back a few pages. Since it has already been refered to as FM069 (possibly incorrectly, not sure) it may not come up on searches. So far, haven't seen anyone post about building one up yet. At over 1200 bucks, it's getting out of the 'disposable' frame range.


----------



## zender

Crappymonkey said:


> Oh my ... BMC lookalike from LT Bike


Close but no ceeeegar. Yes, I know they are not representing it as a Team Machine, but we all know where that chainstay design comes from. The only question is what would be the Chinarello version of "BMC" How about "PRC" in the same font?


----------



## m4xi

zender said:


> Yeah, there are posts of it going back a few pages. Since it has already been refered to as FM069 (possibly incorrectly, not sure) it may not come up on searches. So far, haven't seen anyone post about building one up yet. At over 1200 bucks, it's getting out of the 'disposable' frame range.



yeah you are right!
1200$ is too much!
the same is with the dengfu fm069. they also want 1200$ /pc.

but if you compare these models they are compeletely different.


----------



## rook

Really would like to see a copy, or a close variant, of the Colnago carbon disc brake road bike. Nice to see a lot of carbon cyclocross disc brake bikes out there, but really would like to see a road carbon disc bike.


----------



## tarzan13

zender said:


> Close but no ceeeegar. Yes, I know they are not representing it as a Team Machine, but we all know where that chainstay design comes from. The only question is what would be the Chinarello version of "BMC" How about "PRC" in the same font?


Quite like that suggestion... you might even get away with claiming it stands for "Pure Racing Cycle" ;-)

I really hope they stress tested that copy.... however, I suspect that in reality a few brave cyclist will act as test dummies...


----------



## amedal

So...
Finally pulled the trigger 2 days ago on an FM018 from DengFu. This will be my first bike build, looking forward to it.

Now the wait begins...


----------



## kbfore

*Don't see that one*



amedal said:


> So...
> Finally pulled the trigger 2 days ago on an FM018 from DengFu. This will be my first bike build, looking forward to it.
> 
> Now the wait begins...


When I go to the *dengfubikes.com* site I don't see that frame. Is it on the main page? This is the case for other frames mentioned there as well. What am I missing?


----------



## tarzan13

kbfore said:


> When I go to the *dengfubikes.com* site I don't see that frame. Is it on the main page? This is the case for other frames mentioned there as well. What am I missing?


FM018-ISP-DengFuBieks
FM018-NON-ISP-DengFuBieks


----------



## saubbie23

Question about the bottom bracket on these frames. Are they faced and everything? Or is that something that will need to be done before installing the bottom bracket? I didn't see this answered anywhere, if it was, I apologize. Thanks.


----------



## thiago

Hi all,

My TT bike was stolen a couple weeks ago and I'm facing a dilemma right now. What's best/cheaper? Budget is around $2300.

A.) To buy a complete bike from HongFu/DengFu/Miracle?
B.) To buy a complete bike from BikesDirect AND frame + wheels from HongFu/DengFu/Miracle?

More info:
A complete bike with Rival and carbon handlebars goes for around $2200 from DengFu.

A Motobecane Nemesis pro goes for $1200 with Ultegra components + another $1200 on frame & 88mm wheelset from our friends in China. So, it would be $2400, but I would have a spare frame and trainer wheels.

Am I missing something here? Other options?

Thanks!


ps: I also posted this in another forum, but thought I could have other opinions here as well.


----------



## hotflash

I bought the FR-315 from a_baygoods aka flyxii etc. on ebay. Fast delivery, 8 days to Norway, but I got a MTB handlebar though I ordered for roadbike. I mailed flyxii right away and we agreed that I should return the MTB hndlbr, get a refound for the shippingcharge and get the right one mailed back to me. 
Now, more than one week later, the MTB handlebar is still in amsterdam, and flyxii will not send me the one I ordered before they get their back. I have asked, i a polite manner, to send me my handlebar and wait with the refound til they get the package, but all I get is weird answers about packer packing error models(!!). 

This is really annoying since its their mistake and summer is almost over in Oslo!

btw this is the bike so far (I will get groupset, saddle and tyres tomorrow):


----------



## ms6073

amedal said:


> Finally pulled the trigger 2 days ago on an FM018 from DengFu.


I would suggest you do yourself a favor and save some frustration by ordering a single Omega brake caliper. Yes, I said order a 'single' brake because the design of the frame prevents the Omega from being used up front but the caveat is that you will need to get some metric hex head nuts to replace the stock allen head bolts. The reason for this is due to the way the brake mounts, you will not be able to fit an allen wrench into the heads of the bolts supplied with the frame.


----------



## clayfree

thiago said:


> Hi all,
> 
> My TT bike was stolen a couple weeks ago and I'm facing a dilemma right now. What's best/cheaper? Budget is around $2300.
> 
> A.) To buy a complete bike from HongFu/DengFu/Miracle?
> B.) To buy a complete bike from BikesDirect AND frame + wheels from HongFu/DengFu/Miracle?
> 
> More info:
> A complete bike with Rival and carbon handlebars goes for around $2200 from DengFu.
> 
> A Motobecane Nemesis pro goes for $1200 with Ultegra components + another $1200 on frame & 88mm wheelset from our friends in China. So, it would be $2400, but I would have a spare frame and trainer wheels.
> 
> Am I missing something here? Other options?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> ps: I also posted this in another forum, but thought I could have other opinions here as well.


Hey thiago,

I think that's an interesting idea and have wondered that myself. I currently own a Motobecane Vent Noir and just received a DengFu FM029 so I am planning on transferring the components over.

BD sells a Mercier Ultegra equipped bike for 899 which might be a cheaper alternative.


----------



## MShaw

Whaddya think? FM098?

Culprit Bicycles To Launch Disc-equipped Aero Road Bike - BikeRadar

M


----------



## amedal

ms6073 said:


> I would suggest you do yourself a favor and save some frustration by ordering a single Omega brake caliper. Yes, I said order a 'single' brake because the design of the frame prevents the Omega from being used up front but the caveat is that you will need to get some metric hex head nuts to replace the stock allen head bolts. The reason for this is due to the way the brake mounts, you will not be able to fit an allen wrench into the heads of the bolts supplied with the frame.


I was actually thinking about ordering a rear Tektro 725 brake caliper to mount under the bottom bracket, did it not work for anybody here? Ovals and Omegas are cool too, but pretty expensive I think...


----------



## amedal

kbfore said:


> When I go to the *dengfubikes.com* site I don't see that frame. Is it on the main page? This is the case for other frames mentioned there as well. What am I missing?


Fwiw, I always contacted them via alibaba. They had all their Fm018 listed there, matte finish, glossy, 3k, 12k, different paint schemes, etc...


----------



## clayfree

amedal said:


> Fwiw, I always contacted them via alibaba. They had all their Fm018 listed there, matte finish, glossy, 3k, 12k, different paint schemes, etc...


I found a better listing on their Alibaba site also. That's how I found the FM029


----------



## ms6073

amedal said:


> Ovals and Omegas are cool too, but pretty expensive I think...


I started out with the Tektro (same as the Oval) then got a set of Simkin Egg Brakes which worked even better but were still not great. When the Tririg Omegas came on the market last month, I took a chance and while it was a pain to install due to the need to use hex bolts, and now I have the Simkin Egg Brake up front and the Omega in back and braking is almost as good as my road bike with Dura Ace 7900 calipers.



MShaw said:


> Whaddya think? FM098?
> Culprit Bicycles To Launch Disc-equipped Aero Road Bike - BikeRadar


I think they need more logos/graphics.


----------



## mrcreosote

MShaw said:


> Whaddya think? FM098?
> 
> Culprit Bicycles To Launch Disc-equipped Aero Road Bike - BikeRadar
> 
> M


No. For a start, their frame will accept both disc and TTV brakes. Don't see either option on the '98


----------



## 1805078

Anyone bought from thee guys before????

2012 BH ULTRA LIGHT 700C Complete bike Red/ Madfiber , Black XS S or M size-in Bicycle from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com

I am after a set of those MADFIBRE wheels.....does China sell them at all????

Any Advice would be welcomed

Cheers


----------



## rayovolks

you must be easily fooled if you think a BH Ultralight bike with MF wheels can be bought for US$770.

oh and this "bingzhen shen's store" is using pictures swiped from elsewhere.

this argon 18 gallium with MF's:
2011 Argon 18 Gallium Carbon Road Bike - Mad Fiber Wheelset Campagnolo 11 speed

item and picture from velomine:
2011 Argon 18 Gallium Campagnol Athena 11 Speed Mad Fiber Wheels
$4,799.00

so go ahead and send "bingzhen shen" your $770 and report back to us what you get.

smells like a scam.



1805078 said:


> Anyone bought from thee guys before????
> 
> 2012 BH ULTRA LIGHT 700C Complete bike Red/ Madfiber , Black XS S or M size-in Bicycle from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com
> 
> I am after a set of those MADFIBRE wheels.....does China sell them at all????
> 
> Any Advice would be welcomed
> 
> Cheers


----------



## canemaster

Lol it's also listed as a "Mountain Bike"...

I just purchased the FM066 in the group buy! Pretty excited. It will be a SRAM red/force mix


----------



## redmr2_man

canemaster said:


> I just purchased the FM066 in the group buy! Pretty excited. It will be a SRAM red/force mix


please post up build pics, weight, and riding impressions when you get it!

That is one awesome bike


----------



## rayovolks

canemaster said:


> Lol it's also listed as a "Mountain Bike"...


with a 27 speed drivetrain too!


----------



## combfilter

I am looking for sizing chart/geometry for the MT-MC008 (miracle trade) frame.

Before you tell me to use the search function please keep in mind I have done the following.
On this site I did both "search this thread" and "custom search" in both the version 5 and 6 of these threads. I used the following search strings with no luck. 
mt-mc008
mc008
mt-mc008 sizing
mt-mc008 geometry
mc-008 geometry
mc008 geometry
mc008 sizing

I have also googled every string above telling google to just search this site:
aka
www.forums.roadbikereview.com:search string entered here

I have also googled the same syntax of strings towards alibaba (what a mess) and just straight up google itself. I have searched velobuild as well. 

So please either correct my search strings for my answer, or give me a link without *****ing telling me to use the search function.

I have read every thread from "i've rode my mc008 in a cobblestone race this weekend" to "look at my mc008". However, I cannot for the life of me find this bikes geometry/sizing chart. 

Thanks for any help with this.


----------



## Tranzition

How are you guys liking the carbon handlebars from these sites? Or do most opt for a set of lightweight Al bars instead?


----------



## FTR

1805078 said:


> Anyone bought from thee guys before????
> 
> 2012 BH ULTRA LIGHT 700C Complete bike Red/ Madfiber , Black XS S or M size-in Bicycle from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com
> 
> I am after a set of those MADFIBRE wheels.....does China sell them at all????
> 
> Any Advice would be welcomed
> 
> Cheers


Given that Mad Fiber is hand built in the US at a retail of over $3K I would think the answer is for you to stay away from that Chinese option.


----------



## cajer

Can you show us some pictures of the cervelo s5 and a review when the new frame gets in


----------



## mrbubbles

cajer said:


> Can you show us some pictures of the cervelo s5 and a review when the new frame gets in












VeloBuild.com Chinese Carbon Bike Frames Road Bikes, Mountain Bikes, Time Trial and Cyclo-cross bikes. eBay Sellers too.


----------



## chompychomps

That beings said, I think the 65.1 dogma looks pretty damn sweet, but just unloaded some bones onto a fm-098 recently, so no go for it. 

I won't put original decals on a chinese open mould frame to make them look like a venge or any other model anyway. #justsayin


----------



## FTR

There is no problem with the generic versions of lookalike frames.
Where RBR puts its foot down is where these frames are fully logo'd as Pinarello Dogma's etc.


----------



## tonyyangdu

*different Dengfu AND greatkeenbikes*



chompychomps said:


> Hey teo, I'm wondering how different is your paintjob compared to the real pina's which one did you get? Isn't greatkeen the same as dengfu?


hello all friend:

this is tony writing. i come from Dengfu. My Paypal address is [email protected].
My ALibaba website is http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/ Or www.greatkeen.com.cn.
greatkeen and greatkeen*bikes*, it is different company.
best regards
tony


----------



## myhui

*neither BB30 or GXP bottom brackets supported?*

Carbon Goods claim that they only support BSA threads in their bottom bracket.

But if you want to go with a SRAM Force crankset, or the more expensive models like their Red 2012, they only give you two choices: BB30 or GXP.

Do BB30 or GXP fit the BSA thread offered by Carbon Goods on their frames? I don't think either of those would fit.

So what BB have you guys been putting on to those carbon frames from China that only support classic BSA threads?


----------



## chompychomps

Hey, I got a bsa frame, the GXP bb will work fine. Its just srams way of calling it, same as the FSA's megaexo BB it would work with a bsa thread too.


----------



## Mankul

PlatyPius said:


> No, they haven't. Cycling Yong (which is the worst of the worst) sells only counterfeit frames. So, no....no one has bought an actual Dogma 2 from them.


My jaw dropped when I saw the Wiggin's Graal TT bike on sale at their website!


----------



## svard75

Sharing my experience here with cycling young. Ordered k wing handlebars where the photo was a photo of the real deal. What I received was nothing like the picture. They argued that it was and only decided to refund me after I opened a case with alibaba and PayPal. We settled on a refund of 40. I would be cautious of what the pictures say they are selling vs what you get.


----------



## myhui

*Where are the Hong Kong made carbon frames?*

More than a year ago, but certainly not before this thread (5.0 onwards) started, there was a store on eBay that sold specifically from Hong Kong and not from Shen Zhen. But I can't find that store anymore.

Was it the same manufacturer who was only using Hong Kong as an exporting location? Or did those guys really manufactured their frames in the former British colony Hong Kong and not in Shen Zhen which has always been a city inside the PRC?

The Hong Kong based goods were top notch, at least from the pictures.


----------



## timc03

*DH Gate*

Does anybody know anything about this operation?

http://http://www.dhgate.com/wholesale/store.do?act=sellerStore&sellerid=ff8080812bae92bf012baed24e7555d0&datatype=&winid=all&sortinfo=price&sorttype=down&sort=price,down&keyword=&freeshipping=0&descpledge=0&oneday=0&sevenreturn=0&wholesale=0&price=0&minprice=&maxprice=&catalogid=&param=&pagesize=20


----------



## ilovejuve

I am seeing a chinese copy of the cervelo s5. Has anyone purchased one of these? How is the ride?


----------



## zigmeister

myhui said:


> Carbon Goods claim that they only support BSA threads in their bottom bracket.
> 
> But if you want to go with a SRAM Force crankset, or the more expensive models like their Red 2012, they only give you two choices: BB30 or GXP.
> 
> Do BB30 or GXP fit the BSA thread offered by Carbon Goods on their frames? I don't think either of those would fit.
> 
> So what BB have you guys been putting on to those carbon frames from China that only support classic BSA threads?



BSA is GXP. You just need the SRAM GXP BB and screw it into the BSA threaded shell, done.

BB30, well, you can't put BB30 anything in BSA, because the diameter is too large. Only the other way around can adapters work.


----------



## jchau

I am interested in the aero frame look but for road bikes. 

Something like the Cervelo S3 or S5 look any recommendations on which one and from which supplier? 

Been looking at DengFu and HongFu, the naming on their bikes are almost the same are are the main differences in some of them like the FM015? For a more traditional road frame, what do you guys think of the FM066, FM015, and FM028 in terms of stiffness and weight? Note that I am a 6'2 and 192lb so not sure if the FM066 would be strong enough for me? 

How much are you guys paying for the frame, fork, and shipping?


----------



## rruff

*Has anyone here built one of these?*

Model name and price for the frameset?


----------



## Tswifty

jchau said:


> I am interested in the aero frame look but for road bikes.
> 
> Something like the Cervelo S3 or S5 look any recommendations on which one and from which supplier?
> 
> Been looking at DengFu and HongFu, the naming on their bikes are almost the same are are the main differences in some of them like the FM015? For a more traditional road frame, what do you guys think of the FM066, FM015, and FM028 in terms of stiffness and weight? Note that I am a 6'2 and 192lb so not sure if the FM066 would be strong enough for me?
> 
> How much are you guys paying for the frame, fork, and shipping?


This was discussed several pages ago and the conclusion was that the FM066 is as stiff as the FM028 or close to.



rruff said:


> Model name and price for the frameset?


MC053 people have built it up on Velobuild as the picture link suggest. You could check out Velobuild for more details on the 053.


----------



## myhui

timc03 said:


> Does anybody know anything about this operation?


I like it a lot, based on the photos and specs. Notice they have BB30 press fit now, likely the first Chinese manufacturer to offer it.

Is anyone going to give them a try?


----------



## JSBL

combfilter said:


> I am looking for sizing chart/geometry for the MT-MC008 (miracle trade) frame.
> 
> Before you tell me to use the search function please keep in mind I have done the following.
> On this site I did both "search this thread" and "custom search" in both the version 5 and 6 of these threads. I used the following search strings with no luck.
> mt-mc008
> mc008
> mt-mc008 sizing
> mt-mc008 geometry
> mc-008 geometry
> mc008 geometry
> mc008 sizing
> 
> I have also googled every string above telling google to just search this site:
> aka
> www.forums.roadbikereview.com:search string entered here
> 
> I have also googled the same syntax of strings towards alibaba (what a mess) and just straight up google itself. I have searched velobuild as well.
> 
> So please either correct my search strings for my answer, or give me a link without *****ing telling me to use the search function.
> 
> I have read every thread from "i've rode my mc008 in a cobblestone race this weekend" to "look at my mc008". However, I cannot for the life of me find this bikes geometry/sizing chart.
> 
> Thanks for any help with this.


This is for the MT-MC008 54 cm frame. I've got pdf of the 52 cm and the 56 cm frameset aswell, but unfurtunatly I can't upload them. If you need them just send an e-mail to miracle-trade and ask them.


----------



## toddious

jchau said:


> I am interested in the aero frame look but for road bikes.
> 
> Something like the Cervelo S3 or S5 look any recommendations on which one and from which supplier?
> 
> Been looking at DengFu and HongFu, the naming on their bikes are almost the same are are the main differences in some of them like the FM015? For a more traditional road frame, what do you guys think of the FM066, FM015, and FM028 in terms of stiffness and weight? Note that I am a 6'2 and 192lb so not sure if the FM066 would be strong enough for me?
> 
> How much are you guys paying for the frame, fork, and shipping?


If you want a real name brand aero road frame, theres a sweet deal on Blue AC1: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=4032005#poststop


----------



## maxxevv

JSBL said:


> This is for the MT-MC008 54 cm frame. I've got pdf of the 52 cm and the 56 cm frameset aswell, but unfurtunatly I can't upload them. If you need them just send an e-mail to miracle-trade and ask them.


That is also known as the FM029.


----------



## Bridgey

I have bought 2 Chinarello's in BB30. Nice looking frames. In one of them though, the BB30 metal sleeve has come loose from the carbon. I have since got it fixed up. Great Keen actually paid the $150 for the repair costs vs me sending it back to them. So I appreciated that. 

I spoke to the guys that fixed it. They said that it does happen a bit to BB30 bottom brackets in all types of frames, but did say more so in Chinese ones. So I think I will go with BSA or 68mm ones for now on. 

For the price I paid for my frames it doesn't worry me. Still cheap as chips, even if I did pay for the repair myself. I'd buy again for sure. 

A LBS also tried ripping my wife off the other day. Tough economic times I know, but I happily buy over the internet if I can wait. The money I save helps feed my family.


----------



## JSBL

maxxevv said:


> That is also known as the FM029.


I don't think so. I was told by Dengfu that the FM029 equals the FM028 except for the inner cabling.


----------



## maxxevv

JSBL said:


> I don't think so. I was told by Dengfu that the FM029 equals the FM028 except for the inner cabling.


Ok... on second look, the brake cable routing is different compared to the FM028. Though the chainstays and seatstays as well as head tube look identical ...


----------



## rbart4506

Yup...

Our team orders painted versions of the FM028 and for 2013 we will be on the FM029, if you so choose...

I've seen the bike in person, looks awesome, team member who has it loves it...

My wife and I will both be getting one, I just have to pass the cash over..


----------



## Coolhand

*Moderator Note*



FTR said:


> There is no problem with the generic versions of lookalike frames.
> Where RBR puts its foot down is where these frames are fully logo'd as Pinarello Dogma's etc.


This. So the related posts have been nuked, along with some hijacks and related shenanigans. Please keep things on point.


----------



## rokh

Time for me to do a build report on my FR-315...

I've ordered this thing directly from flyxii, costed 503$ with 2 carbon bottle cages. Packaging was professional. The transfering process took 5 days to my country then customs office sat 2,5 weeks on it.

Shifters ultegra 6600 series STI
Wheels Shimano RS80-24CL
Crankset old, carbon ZZYZX with FSA chainrings 52/39 and octalink BB
RD SH tiagra 4600 series 
FD R770 10spd 
Pedals are SH 105 5700 series black
Brakes are black Miche primatos
Saddle is a black Selle italia flow 
Cableing is Jagwire racer white/black housing mixed
Black handle grip used
Cockpit is alu, 110m cinelli stem with 2danger handlebar

It was a budget build so all parts, but the framset itself were used on previous bikes. The build process was smooth, internal cabling is real easy. Shifts like a dream. All I had problems with is the headset installation.... steerer tube of the fork was way too oversized for the headset so i had to sand it... sand it for 2 hours till i finally could fit it in. Altho the bearings of the headset dont stay in place, as the sockets (is this the proper english word for it? ) in the frame are a bit large so on rougher roads, the headset bearings make rattleing noise. What is not making any mechanical problems, the bike steers well, runs in a straight line riding without holding the handle bar, and also it's fast. 

So.. here i have a question. If i used loctite or some super glue thing to hold those bearings on spot would that be ok, or will that cause some different problems?

Anyway I've only ridden it 2 times (200kms total) but i can vouch for it, for this price its a very good deal.

Also sorry for my gibberish again, hope its not too painful to read me


----------



## greenjt

Did you ever buy the MC012 frame from Miracle? I am trying to figure out if the seat post clamp moves fore and aft on top of the seat post thereby providing a wider range of effective seat tube angles available. Thanks.

jg







bernard29 said:


> Hi,
> First post after spending many hours( never easy for french people understanding foreign languages ;-) to read these two threads ( 5 and 6) about carbon chinese frames.
> Many thanks for all the informations, members share to everybody, it's a very positive attitude and a pleasure to see discussions never get loose in personal charges or quarrells ( very frequent in my country )
> I am, now, ready to put the trigger on a tt frame ( MC012 Miracle ) and i have just to learn more about finer points about "GIMP"
> So, @FTR, wich seller gave you a quote of 150 $ for 3 colours ? Miracle ?
> @ APACHESIX, your frame is very nice, the work was execute from, only, the pictures above ?
> In that case, i may look about ICAN tt frames !
> Thanks ad sorry again for my poor english !


----------



## Boombaux

has anyone gotten a reply from Deng Fu in the past 2 or 3 days? I made the payment and tried emailing yesterday but still no reply or call for confirmation


----------



## ms6073

Boombaux said:


> has anyone gotten a reply from Deng Fu in the past 2 or 3 days? I made the payment and tried emailing yesterday but still no reply or call for confirmation


Nope. I have sent emails on Sunday and Tuesday evenings hoping to get an update on when our FM059 framesets ordered in May would ship this week and have yet to receive a reply.


----------



## Boombaux

ms6073 said:


> Nope. I have sent emails on Sunday and Tuesday evenings hoping to get an update on when our FM059 framesets ordered in May would ship this week and have yet to receive a reply.


i actually got a reply last night saying they would ship today (so 12 hours-ish from now)


----------



## adam_mac84

Anyone deal with Icarbonsports? Seems like they have the best wheel deals out there... but more importantly, it looks like they have a good CX bike that would fit my wife. There are lots of different geometries out there for these carbon bikes... especially CX, so it takes a bit of investigating I have found.

I am sure if i look long enough, i will find my carbon redline somewhere... then I will have a pit bike haha


----------



## amedal

Boombaux said:


> has anyone gotten a reply from Deng Fu in the past 2 or 3 days? I made the payment and tried emailing yesterday but still no reply or call for confirmation


Be on top of it dude, I ordered mine about 10 days ago, its in NY now on its way to ATL. They sent the frame with the paint job in glossy finish instead of matte like I requested. Still waiting on a response from them as far what solution they provide to this issue. Ill keep you guys posted.

FWIW, communication with Martina has been flawless, she is always available. Lucky is a different story...

Just be on top of it man, make sure you document everything and make it very clear on what you want...

Cheers.


----------



## FTR

Amedal
From experience, you may not want their idea of matte paint.
Mine turned up as basically paint with no cleat coat.
It looked shabby in no time at all.


----------



## amedal

Ah, good to know, thanx! Which frame did u get?


----------



## FTR

amedal said:


> Ah, good to know, thanx! Which frame did u get?


Was an FM028.
Now written off after being hit by a car in January.


----------



## amedal

Sorry to hear about the accident. Looked like a sweet ride. Did u have it under ur home insurance?


----------



## FTR

amedal said:


> Sorry to hear about the accident. Looked like a sweet ride. Did u have it under ur home insurance?


Yes, but I claimed on the driver's motor vehicle insurance as they were in the wrong.


----------



## Boombaux

for anyone who's ordered/recieved it; did they call to confirm the order/shipment?
i live on the east coast so the time difference is a bit substantial


----------



## amedal

Not me. What I did us bring up their chat room via alibaba and do the entire transaction while I had them online. It was a late night, but I wanted to make sure it went smooth. They sent the bill to my email, I sent payment via PayPal and didn't leave the chat room until they confirmed they had received the payment.

Next email info from them was to tell me It had shipped after the paint job was done...


----------



## tmmartins

*New Purchase Newbie*

Hey guys I am brand new to this forum and new to Chinese carbon. I have been researching for the last few days and I think I found what I want but really need some guidance. I am kind of leaning towards Hengfu bikes as the supplier and I am looking at either the FM029 ISP or FM098 ISP in a 50 or 52 cm size. I currently have a 52 cm Allez. I have chosen a paint design I like but want to have my name on the bike instead of Denfu. Now come the questions. How do I order? Do I go directly to the Dengfu site or do I go through Alibaba.com. How do I tell them what paint scheme I want and how do I send them the information for the decals. What id everyone's opinions between the FM029 and FM098? What other companies do you recommend? Do you also recommend I get handlebars and stem from them? Really appreciate any assistance you can offer. Thanks.


----------



## myhui

*carbon wheels from e_baygoods*

Item 271036817217 has rim depth of 38mm and costs $369.

Item 251125605642 has rim depth of 50mm and costs $469.

Is this big price difference just because of the amount of material in the 50mm deep rim?

Or is there something more to it? (like, maybe I can wait for the price of the 50mm deep wheel to drop from $469 to $369?)


----------



## jchau

myhui said:


> Item 271036817217 has rim depth of 38mm and costs $369.
> 
> Item 251125605642 has rim depth of 50mm and costs $469.
> 
> Is this big price difference just because of the amount of material in the 50mm deep rim?
> 
> Or is there something more to it? (like, maybe I can wait for the price of the 50mm deep wheel to drop from $469 to $369?)


The difference between 38mm and 50mm should be around $20-30. 

You should check out seller carbonspeedcycle it's Helin Liu's store and they're known for their wheels.


----------



## myhui

jchau said:


> The difference between 38mm and 50mm should be around $20-30.
> 
> You should check out seller carbonspeedcycle it's Helin Liu's store and they're known for their wheels.


Can you post an item number for Helin Liu's store? I can't search directly for seller's name "carbonspeedcycle". Thanks.


----------



## FTR

carbon speed cycle, carbon wheels,carbon wheelset,carbon bicycle wheels, bike rim


----------



## jchau

myhui said:


> Can you post an item number for Helin Liu's store? I can't search directly for seller's name "carbonspeedcycle". Thanks.


Check out ebay item 220970806580


----------



## chompychomps

tmmartins said:


> Hey guys I am brand new to this forum and new to Chinese carbon. I have been researching for the last few days and I think I found what I want but really need some guidance. I am kind of leaning towards Hengfu bikes as the supplier and I am looking at either the FM029 ISP or FM098 ISP in a 50 or 52 cm size. I currently have a 52 cm Allez. I have chosen a paint design I like but want to have my name on the bike instead of Denfu. Now come the questions. How do I order? Do I go directly to the Dengfu site or do I go through Alibaba.com. How do I tell them what paint scheme I want and how do I send them the information for the decals. What id everyone's opinions between the FM029 and FM098? What other companies do you recommend? Do you also recommend I get handlebars and stem from them? Really appreciate any assistance you can offer. Thanks.


Hi, I'm not too sure on the frame sizes, between your allez and the frames you mentioned. 

For the paint scheme, deng fu has a graphics person that you can go to, just email lucky or tony. And liase with them regarding the paint job. Many people order the fm098 in the mclaren venge paint scheme. Usually you have to send a photo of the paint scheme you want. They will continue to discuss till they get it right, usually till you are satisfied.

As far as I know. FM-029 has a slight difference at the downtube as there's a slight curve I think? As far as I've seen from pictures. I still like the Fm-098 though.

You can try miracle bikes. Or flyxii. There are groupbuys on velobuild that can reduce the cost of these frames. Just hit me with a PM or smth. 

For the stems and bars, some people like them and some don't due to the shape of the handlebars, they don't have those compact and shallow bars that are pretty popular nowadays.. stems don't usuallu make much of difference, just go with the look that you like. I was seriously considering some 3T ergosums from alibaba, just search that.. 

Happy shopping!


----------



## jchau

Anyone got pictures of the MT-MC055 built up as a road bike? Or is the dimensions is more of a TT bike?


----------



## mrcreosote

adam_mac84 said:


> Anyone deal with Icarbonsports? Seems like they have the best wheel deals out there... but more importantly, it looks like they have a good CX bike that would fit my wife. There are lots of different geometries out there for these carbon bikes... especially CX, so it takes a bit of investigating I have found.
> 
> I am sure if i look long enough, i will find my carbon redline somewhere... then I will have a pit bike haha


FYI - their CX frame = Dengfu FM058 = Yishun CX01


----------



## eidolon

There are no carbon frames manufactured in Hong Kong.


----------



## tmmartins

Chompychomps, thanks for your reply. The forum will not allow me to PM you because I don't have enough posts.


----------



## greenjt

tunedis95 said:


> Just about finished my build. Have a little gear, seat tuning. This is my first build and have not been into the hobby but for a few months. Learned everything just from reading a couple of these forums. Finished putting the bike together in several hrs, and everything fit 100% well, and frame condition after shipping was almost perfect. Had a couple nicks that I buffed out. Thanx everyone
> 
> I'm 5ft 5 and this is a 52cm frame FR105 ($540 us dollars)
> 3k glossy finish
> One piece carbon road bars,
> Brand new full SRAM force group set
> Reynolds Wheels
> Selle saddle
> Look classic pedals
> 
> The ride is totally different from my trek road bike. Feels so sporty. Remember I am a newb so don't know what to expect. It's like learning a whole different machine, feels funny.


Does anybody know for sure whether or not the seat post clamp moves fore/aft on top of the seat post on this frame? Frame is the FR105 from Flyxii, also known as the MC012 from Miracle and Ican. I don't have enough posts yet to post pics, links or PM....


----------



## Crappymonkey

jchau said:


> Anyone got pictures of the MT-MC055 built up as a road bike? Or is the dimensions is more of a TT bike?


The frame is suitable for both road and TT. The seatpost has two mounting positions to give you the proper position for the bike style you're setting up. 

This is a shot from Miraclebikes of the MC055 set up as a road bike..


----------



## Crappymonkey

I'd like an opinion on a sizing issue I'm currently experiencing. I currently ride a 54cm BMC which fits well because it has a 55.5cm top tube (I have a long trunk and short inseam). I am actually interested in ordering a MC055 like the one I just posted above. All the sizing calculators I've plugged my measurements into put me onto a 54-55cm bike with a longer 55.5-56cm top tube. The 54cm MC055 has a 54.8cm top tube and the 56cm has a 56.4cm. My ideal fit is between the two sizes. Which would you pick? I like this frame because if I ever wanted to I could set it up as a TT bike without too many modifications.


----------



## chompychomps

> Chompychomps, thanks for your reply. The forum will not allow me to PM you because I don't have enough posts.


Sure, no worries, I highly recommend you to head over to velobuild, its the hub of chinese frames. tons of info there too.. 
I'm under the same user there! But I'm sure reading through the forums alone can get you pretty much going.


----------



## zigmeister

FTR said:


> Amedal
> From experience, you may not want their idea of matte paint.
> Mine turned up as basically paint with no cleat coat.
> It looked shabby in no time at all.


Paint is marginal with these guys. My FM098 is 3K with matte black paint and clear coat. It does have clear coat. A quick wet sand on any part of the bike will make the water/clear coat residue turn white when sanding it.

The paint is not going to be big major factory quality, no way no how, just as the QC overall and build isn't going to be like the big names. That is why the frame cost $550 instead of $4,000. 

With that said. Having a black matte is easy to take care of, if any issues, just get some black matte spray paint or matte clear coat and hit the problem areas, solved!! One of the benefits of an open mold bike and this kind of paint. You wouldn't do that with your $4k Venge frameset I bet!!!!


----------



## amedal

Alright, frame arrived today. Here are some pictures of the packaging for those of you thinking about ordering from Dengfu. This is the non-isp FM018.

I have inspected the frame for defects, havent found anything yet, still looking though.





































I must admit that even though I ordered matte finish, glossy doesnt look that bad. Still debating about it...


----------



## ptsbike55

> I must admit that even though I ordered matte finish, glossy doesnt look that bad. Still debating about it...


So you didn't order the green trim?


----------



## amedal

No, I did, the paint job is what I requested, but the tone was supposed to be matte, not glossy. Including the black carbon color of it. They did apply the 3K on it, just glossy instead of matte...


----------



## mloc123

I have ordered from flyxii before and items were always shipped from China. Ordered some handlebars last week and they shipped from Singapore, strange. Anyone else bought from them recently?


----------



## MilanoRex

Now that my FM015 is fully built, how is everyone else stamping a serial number on the frame? With a steel frame I could etch it in there with a stamping kit, but what do we do with carbon fiber?


----------



## amedal

Pardon my ignorance but, where do you find the serial number on a Chinese carbon frame?


----------



## MilanoRex

Nowhere.. they don't put serial numbers on them. Well, mine didn't come with any..


----------



## Boombaux

a few questions;

if i live in the US will EMS deliver it right to my door?
if i have to pick it up at the PO how do i prove it's my package?


----------



## ptsbike55

> No, I did, the paint job is what I requested, but the tone was supposed to be matte, not glossy. Including the black carbon color of it. They did apply the 3K on it, just glossy instead of matte...


Keep the gloss. It looks good.


----------



## maxxevv

MilanoRex said:


> Now that my FM015 is fully built, how is everyone else stamping a serial number on the frame? With a steel frame I could etch it in there with a stamping kit, but what do we do with carbon fiber?


The rear drop-outs. Like how Colnago does theirs.


----------



## amedal

Boombaux said:


> a few questions;
> 
> if i live in the US will EMS deliver it right to my door?
> if i have to pick it up at the PO how do i prove it's my package?


Yes, once the box gets to NEw York USPS takes over and you will receive it at your door, you have to sign upon delivery.

I'm not too sure if they can ship to a PO Box, you'd have contact Dengfu about that.

Beware tho, Dengfu will tell you that you must inspect frame upon arrival for any damage in it caused by shipping before you sign on delivery, or else Dengfu will wash their hands on any damage. However, USPS will not let you open the box until you sign the paperwork. So basically, if there is any damage caused by shipping you are screwed. Dengfu knows this, they still throw the disclaimer there just to be able to wash their hands if there's any damage.

On mine there seemed to be no damage on the frame caused by shipping, and the box, as you can see in the pictures was in decent shape...

Just something else to keep in mind...


----------



## amedal

ptsbike55 said:


> Keep the gloss. It looks good.


Yeah, I'm starting to develop a taste for it. Just pissed me off how Lucky was just trying to convince me that I was going to like glossy better anyways once the frame was shipped and she realized the mistake... I thought that was pretty weak.

I emailed Tony about the problem a few days ago, haven't heard a word from him...


----------



## tircky

Just wondering if anyone has had both a FM028/29 and a FM039 and can share some comments on both as a comparision. 

Looking at getting a frame shortly and have shorten the list down to these two frames. Reading from the Geometry the FM039 appears to be slighty shorter (length, head tube, top tube, rear wheel).
so does this mean slightly more agressive geometry/handling? 

I haven't seen proper photos of the FM029 to work out whether the front derailuer mounts directly onto the frame or requires a band. Can anyone confirm this?

Leaning towards the FM039 as I like the aero frame design and that it is an original design. Whilst it appears to have taken elements from other bikes, Fuji, Bianchi etc, it doesn't appear to be an exact match for anything.

Comments? Cheers Michael


----------



## Timbuctoo

Thought I'd post on here to say that I recently purchased two framesets from Great Keen and they're both spotonski. Paint was great and everything went together with the right tools easily. I'll post some pics on here when I'm finished both bikes but so far really happy...so far, touch wood.


----------



## wjclint

I started the process by contacting DengFu by email on July 25, 2012. I first asked about an FM066 but ultimately decided on an FM029 non-isp size 50cm. Each email was responded to within 24 hours with a total of six emails. The final order and payment was made on August 1, 2012, and the frame arrived on our doorstep in Texas on August 14, 2012. Total cost through paypal was $587 which included a headset and extra hangers.

The frame is actually for my 15 year old son and I was at work when it arrived. He was impatient and took it to a shop to be built up, stripping all the old parts from his old bike (a Nashbar Aluminum frame), so I didn't do the build. It is my understanding though that everything went smoothly except an issue with the cables in the shifters, but that had nothing to do with the frame.

He rode it in a crit on the same day it was built up, on a group ride the next day, and then won a crit on it yesterday which was his first first place (the C race). Since I don't ride it, and really can't since I ride a 58cm, I can't comment on ride quality, but he seems to like it.


----------



## clayfree

wjclint said:


> I started the process by contacting DengFu by email on July 25, 2012. I first asked about an FM066 but ultimately decided on an FM029 non-isp size 50cm. Each email was responded to within 24 hours with a total of six emails. The final order and payment was made on August 1, 2012, and the frame arrived on our doorstep in Texas on August 14, 2012. Total cost through paypal was $587 which included a headset and extra hangers.
> 
> The frame is actually for my 15 year old son and I was at work when it arrived. He was impatient and took it to a shop to be built up, stripping all the old parts from his old bike (a Nashbar Aluminum frame), so I didn't do the build. It is my understanding though that everything went smoothly except an issue with the cables in the shifters, but that had nothing to do with the frame.
> 
> He rode it in a crit on the same day it was built up, on a group ride the next day, and then won a crit on it yesterday which was his first first place (the C race). Since I don't ride it, and really can't since I ride a 58cm, I can't comment on ride quality, but he seems to like it.


Thanks for the post! I have a FM029 sitting on my table right now. Saturday morning is my last ride on my current frame and as soon as I finish I'll start building the 029. Can't wait!


----------



## maxxevv

That's certainly a story befitting a fairytale !!! Well done to your boy there !:thumbsup:


----------



## ms6073

wjclint said:


> It is my understanding though that everything went smoothly except an issue with the cables in the shifters, but that had nothing to do with the frame.


From that image, it would appear the the cable routing is far from optimal although it might be an illusion due to the image perspectove, the rear deraileur cable looks as if it is to short.


----------



## zigmeister

amedal said:


> No, I did, the paint job is what I requested, but the tone was supposed to be matte, not glossy. Including the black carbon color of it. They did apply the 3K on it, just glossy instead of matte...


Easy fix. Got get some matte clear coat, have at it. Then hit it with wet sand afterwards to smooth it. You now have a matte finish!


----------



## clayfree

amedal said:


> Alright, frame arrived today. Here are some pictures of the packaging for those of you thinking about ordering from Dengfu. This is the non-isp FM018.
> 
> I have inspected the frame for defects, havent found anything yet, still looking though.
> 
> I must admit that even though I ordered matte finish, glossy doesnt look that bad. Still debating about it...


Great paint job. Love the colors!


----------



## seanhub1

I have built up quite a few sets of carbon wheels and the included pads, they appear to have some cork in them, heat up and deposit rubber on the braking surface. When that happens they pulsate and grab. I have tried other pads but the best solution so far is true cork pads, the Bontrager pads are used by team Radioshack and work well. No pulse and no noise. They are not the best in the rain but luckily I don't get much of that in Las Vegas. Be advised your friends may freak out a bit riding behind you because they let off a smokey smell when used very hard and when new.


----------



## amedal

zigmeister said:


> Easy fix. Got get some matte clear coat, have at it. Then hit it with wet sand afterwards to smooth it. You now have a matte finish!


**Like**


----------



## amedal

clayfree said:


> Great paint job. Love the colors!


Thanks Clay!


----------



## ptsbike55

PHP:


I must admit that even though I ordered matte finish, glossy doesnt look that bad. Still debating about it...

amedal,
Did you Photohop your color scheme to Denfu? How did you relate those to them?


----------



## amedal

I saw that color scheme on a different Asian provider, I sent the picture to them and told them I wanted my frame like the one in the picture, but in matte finish...


----------



## timsen

tircky said:


> I have followed this series for a while and always thought I'd buy a FM015. I have an ageing Bianchi, nice bike but getting long in the tooth, slightly too large and heavy frame/fork. After seeing this, I have definitely change to FM039. I like that it is not an exact copy of anything, ok touches of Venge but less pronounced. I really like the 3k Matte finish. I have already designed some decals to match my riding group.
> 
> Bout the only difference in setup will be Chorus 11 speed, and tubular wheels (cause lighter and better heat dispensation, and Aussie flag.
> 
> Thanks for posting the photos, hope the seat issue is fixed, I'm sure there is a way to secure it. Hope mine works out just a nice



I had the same problem as you have. I solved it by sanding the seat post clamp in the middle. So there is more space between both sides.
Try this and you will see that it helps.


----------



## robpar

*Mc008 frame*

Ok, been following for a long time... I also own a clone that I've had for a few years...

Is Miracle trading the same as Miracle bike or miracle sports?

I've gotten emails from both... Just checking to see which one is the legit one...
Have not seen many pictures of the mc008 ( another thread)... Any comments on the rd stop being on the side of chain-stay?

Looking at pulling trigger on a mt mc008....
Any more feedback on ride quality?


----------



## 2L8COMES2FAST

Hello,
Absolutely stunning! :thumbsup:
A clean, fast, stealth look with just a few minor colour accents. I'd love to build one up very similar to yours.
I'm new to this board and cannot send PM's...
Can you let me know specs: finish/bottom bracket? Any oher options one has to chose from when buying? 
What's your feedback on the buying process?
Also how tall are you? Seam? Size of bike and your impressions of the geometry of the bike (maybe compared to what you were riding before).
And if you would have a list laying around of all the parts needed for the build-up..that would be great too. I have no idea what I'm getting into 
Thanks in advance!


----------



## mtbboy41

I Have a MC008 from Miracle and am really happy with it. I didn't expect that the RD stop would be on the outside of the chainstay. It took a slight re alignment of my cleat so that my right heel doesn't touch it. I think anyone with bigger feet than me (44s) or using a shoe with a bulky heel cup might have some problems.


----------



## robpar

mtbboy41 said:


> I Have a MC008 from Miracle and am really happy with it. I didn't expect that the RD stop would be on the outside of the chainstay. It took a slight re alignment of my cleat so that my right heel doesn't touch it. I think anyone with bigger feet than me (44s) or using a shoe with a bulky heel cup might have some problems.


Thanks for the input; looking at the 54cm ISP frame (410mm chainstay)
what kind of pedals do you have? my DuraAce have a small Q factor...
What crank length are you using?


----------



## roubaix_sj

this is by far one of the hottest looking bikes for 2012 that i've seen ! wow ! really well done!


----------



## mtbboy41

I have the 56 cm non ISP. I use172.5 Dura ace 7900 cranks and 7900 pedals. The pedals seem closer to the crank than my older 7800 pedals.


----------



## Khaze

Hi, I got this response from Jenny at Hongfu.

ok,so the price is :
FM039+SP039+FK007: $535
headset fit frame: $15
decal pattern cost: $75
paint and decal cost : $95
total shipping cost : $85
the lead time are 35-40 days after confirm your payment.
you need pay full cost for your order.
you can pay via bank, westen union and paypal. 
but pay via paypal need add 4% for the paypal charges
thanks!

best regards!
jenny
--------------------
Do they always expect full payment ahead of time? I'm fine with that if that is the norm and everyone gets their frames, but 2 months is a long time to wait for something when you've paid advance in full (again, no problem if it's legit!).


----------



## 2L8COMES2FAST

Khaze, what paint job/decals did Jenny quote you for?


----------



## Khaze

Thanks for the quick reply!

I'm into the cheesy stuff, so this paint job: bit[dot]ly[slash]RdWD4S

I can't post links, so either that or the description: It's three colors: green, black, and white.

Except with the text "WING ZERO" in place of "HONGFU."


----------



## hotflash

All I need is my handlebar...


----------



## robpar

mtbboy41 said:


> I have the 56 cm non ISP. I use172.5 Dura ace 7900 cranks and 7900 pedals. The pedals seem closer to the crank than my older 7800 pedals.


Hmmm... that's a similar set up to what I would have... and my right foot cleat is set for a "toes out" motion which may compound the problem... I will ask if they can move the cable stop to the bottom of the chainstay...


----------



## Boombaux

the frame and other stuff i ordered came in yesterday and everything looks to be fine.
i'm a little confused by the headset though, could someone post a picture/diagram that shows the order that things go?
i know how to install the crown race, i know where the bearings go but not inbetween/after, haha


EDIT: alright, so, crown race, lower bearing, top bearing, compression ring, dust-cap, stem, top cap? what are the washers for?


----------



## j4son

just ordered some decals from Marco. Great communication and responsiveness! I just had a few questions from those who have ordered from him before...

1) Does USPS handle the parcel once it gets to America? If so, will the tracking number be the same?

2) How long did it take to get to you after they were first shipped? I'm located in CA

Thanks


----------



## Boombaux

j4son said:


> just ordered some decals from Marco. Great communication and responsiveness! I just had a few questions from those who have ordered from him before...
> 
> 1) Does USPS handle the parcel once it gets to America? If so, will the tracking number be the same?
> 
> 2) How long did it take to get to you after they were first shipped? I'm located in CA
> 
> Thanks


i'm not familiar with marco but USPS delivered my package to my door and required a signature. when it gets to america it'll just say "Dispatched from New York America" which means it's on it's way to you
shipping time was a week and a half


----------



## mrcreosote

Has anyone purchased a track-specific frame from one of the chinese suppliers? I can only find 2 that do proper fixed-gear frames.

Thoughts and experiences appreciated

MrC.


----------



## amedal

Boombaux said:


> the frame and other stuff i ordered came in yesterday and everything looks to be fine.
> i'm a little confused by the headset though, could someone post a picture/diagram that shows the order that things go?
> i know how to install the crown race, i know where the bearings go but not inbetween/after, haha
> 
> 
> EDIT: alright, so, crown race, lower bearing, top bearing, compression ring, dust-cap, stem, top cap? what are the washers for?


This link did it for me... Pretty straight forward.

http://www.danscomp.com/install/Integrated_Headset_Install.pdf

Put the extra washers on top of your fork race if your dust-top rubs against the headtube...
I didn't need any of them on mine...


----------



## djtodd

Bit the bullet and pulled the trigger on my FM028 frame. Ordered from Carbonzone via eBay. They threw in a pair of rear derailler hangars. 

I'm going to move all of the needed components from my Giant Defy, but I realize that my seat post is probably the wrong diameter and my existing front derailler is braze instead of clamp. But I'm going to have my local shop of choice do the build for me.

Can't wait to move to my matte black "stealth bomber".


----------



## ericTheHalf

mrcreosote said:


> Has anyone purchased a track-specific frame from one of the chinese suppliers? I can only find 2 that do proper fixed-gear frames.
> 
> Thoughts and experiences appreciated
> 
> MrC.


There was one guy, back in version 1 or 2 of this thread, but he hasn't posted in a long time. I'm sure the option are different now. You'll be on your own, but don't let that stop you.

Which 2 are you looking at?


----------



## 2L8COMES2FAST

OK, after seeing Tompelan's beauty, I pulled the trigger on a FM039 from Dengfu....10-12 working days lead time. That gives me some time to shop for tools and a how to build a bike manual.


----------



## mjb152

m4xi said:


> hi guys!
> Has anyone seen the new 2013 model of honfus TT?
> It´s called FM086 and looks amazing!!!
> 
> 
> Where did you buy your bike components? do you also have a cheap supplier?
> 
> Thanks,
> Steve


Now that looks nice, I've emailed them for prices, but am interested to see if anybody else has built one up


----------



## ms6073

amedal said:


> This link did it for me... Pretty straight forward.


Most of us know better but since nearly everyone in this thread is ordering carbon frames supplied with forks with carbon steer tubes, how about we avoid referencing a guide for forks with an alloy steer tube? We really dont need some of the less experienced visitors to the thread hammering down a crown race with a brass or steel drift nor do we need them trying to hammer starnuts into a carbon fork.


----------



## greenjt

About to pull triggers on a TT frame. If i order custom paint and decals:

1. do the decals get applied before the clear coat?
2. Do the decals look good or are they raised from the paint and look cheesy? 
3. would i be better off painting the lettering myself with stencils over the clearcoat?

what's the best way to do this??? Thanks.


----------



## mrcreosote

ericTheHalf said:


> There was one guy, back in version 1 or 2 of this thread, but he hasn't posted in a long time. I'm sure the option are different now. You'll be on your own, but don't let that stop you.
> 
> Which 2 are you looking at?


initially

http://flyxii.com/products_1.asp?menuid=331&id=344

and

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/608725358/wholesale_price_full_carbon_track_frame.html

but also since found

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/256653086/TP_R810_carbon_frame.html
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/512846209/Full_carbon_frame_carbon_track_frame.html


----------



## kngr8

hotflash said:


> All I need is my handlebar...


Hi, can you tell me what frame is this and where you buy it?
Thanks


----------



## rbart4506

ms6073 said:


> Most of us know better but since nearly everyone in this thread is ordering carbon frames supplied with forks with carbon steer tubes, how about we avoid referencing a guide for forks with an alloy steer tube? We really dont need some of the less experienced visitors to the thread hammering down a crown race with a brass or steel drift nor do we need them trying to hammer starnuts into a carbon fork.


Yup, I just go to my fav LBS and have them do it...I then purchase the cable/housing for the build from them and there's no charge for the crown race install...

I'll be doing that again shortly now that our FM029's, matte black, are in the house...

I must say the finish quality is better then the FM028 I got at the start of the season...

So that will mean that my wife and I will have purchased a grand total of 4 bikes in the past 6 months for basically the cost of one name brand bike


----------



## ericTheHalf

mrcreosote said:


> initially
> 
> http://flyxii.com/products_1.asp?menuid=331&id=344
> 
> and
> 
> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/608725358/wholesale_price_full_carbon_track_frame.html
> 
> but also since found
> 
> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/256653086/TP_R810_carbon_frame.html
> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/512846209/Full_carbon_frame_carbon_track_frame.html


They sure don't have many sizes to choose from in the track frames.

Someone has to be first. Since no one here has any of these I would recommend buying from a supplier that others here have bought road frames from.

If you aren't too attached to carbon, you can check the single speed forum for VISP. They have steel and aluminum frames and some one just finished a build of a steel frame.


----------



## Jakak

*Jonson KD Technology Development (Shenzhen)*

Hi all,

Has anybody purchased a frameset from Chinese company called Jonson KD Technology Development (Shenzhen) / Aliexpress name:KODE BIKE HK CO LTD's store?

If so, can you please inform me about their lead time, quality of painting finish and offcourse quality of carbon frame sets?

Thanks in advance.
Regards


----------



## tomr

Hey just looking at buying a FM012 TT frame but Im having trouble choose between a 52 or a 54.

Ive been using my road bike for tt's this year by using an ajustable stem to drop the front end. Now im looking at building a tt setup and I realise theres still alot of work to do. Ignoring the fact that I need to drop my neck to stop my helmet sticking miles into the air im trying to decided whether to go for a frame with a smaller top tube. Pictured is a 54.5mm with the ajustable stem giving me effectively around 90mm of reach. Would I be better with a 52? Theres still a little way to go in terms of dropping the front end (I think!) further stretching out my position.

www4.clikpic.com/chrisleesphotography/images/IMG_6478001.jpg

Cheers


----------



## preacher35

Jakak said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Has anybody purchased a frameset from Chinese company called Jonson KD Technology Development (Shenzhen) / Aliexpress name:KODE BIKE HK CO LTD's store?
> 
> If so, can you please inform me about their lead time, quality of painting finish and offcourse quality of carbon frame sets?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> Regards


Jakak, I have purchased several items from Johnson KD. Ruby (her real name is CuiMei) is wonderful! Her communication is the best of any Chinese companies that I have dealt with to date. I have purchased painted and non-painted frames from her as well as components. My last purchase was two frames, handlebar and seatpost. I received the order eight days after purchase (via EMS). Regardless of ship time, I was skeptical about paint when I made my first purchase for a painted frame. However, my fears were quickly extinguished when I received it. The paint was as good as any that I have seen from the Euro or American manufacturers. I am not the only one that has purchased from Ruby at Johnson KD. MFUCHS (you can search his posts) has ordered from her as well and I know that he was happy with his purchases. 

Hope that helps!


----------



## Boombaux

does anyone else have the SP003 seatpost?
being the idiot i am, i bought a chinese carbon saddle from ebay without even checking the rail info. the seatpost i have is for round and the saddle rails are oval 7x9ish
i'm wondering if i could use a different clamp on the seatpost than the ones that it came with


----------



## jared_j

*Drill drain hole in China Carbon CX Frame?*

I've got this "sorta" China Carbon cyclocross frame. It does not have any sorta drain hole in the BB / seatstay area for water.

After a mildly rainy ride, I was able to tip it over upside down and see a ton of water drain out from the seat collar area.

If I hadn't had tipped it over for other reasons (to adjust brakes), I wouldn't have noticed and the water would have stayed in for who knows how long.

Can I safely drill a drain hole in the carbon? Has anyone had to do this before? I have no real technical materials knowledge.


----------



## cxwrench

you sure can. it's very easy to drill through or cut carbon. feels like drilling/cutting through plastic, actually. it does dull blades and bits quickly, but it's no prob. you'll most likely also go through some aluminum in the bb shell, but that's no problem either. i've drilled and cut holes in a bunch of carbon frames to run Di2 wiring. after you get over the initial fear it's fun.


----------



## Rekless1

Drilling it certainly easy....but I personally wouldn't.

I'd just as soon tip it over like you have when need be.


----------



## turbogrover

The biggest reason for the drain hole is to prevent steel frame tubes from rusting, and the water contaminating your bb bearings.
Your bb shell is solid billet aluminum, so no water will get in there. Your frame tubes won't rust. Just tip it over to drain the water out. The drain hole isn't necessary.


----------



## Tharriga

*Flyxii FR-315*

Hi, after reading what seems like a billion posts from this series I decided to pull the trigger on a chinese carbon frame. I initially tried for the dengfu FM028 but they told me it was no longer available in BSA (after I had paid, of course). They then proceeded to jerk me around for my refund, only repaying me when I instigated a paypal complaint....not too impressed. 
I then ordered the 52cm, matte,Flyxii FR-315 through ebay (a bit of added security). The seller was oemitem, which is one of several names that flyxii uses to sell on ebay. There are no real reviews of the frame/seller so I thought I'd give it a go:
Seller: -Cheap ($500 for frame, fork, seatpost, collar and headset, shipping included)
- Fast (6 business days) and well packed shipping, also quick to provide tracking number/ Very impressed with the seller
Frame:
- Seems well put together, though there are some seams visible at the joints.
- Luckily I don't have the seatpost slippage issue that others seem to have
- Didn't weigh but based on other's pics of the frame on a scale-1001g(frame/collar), 163g for seatpost, 383g for fork.
- Headset seems to be decent quality (i assumed it would be a throw-away piece
- Only concern is that the frame seems much more compact than it looked in the pics. Not a flaw, I just usually favour classic geometry bikes. This frame actually has a near identical geometry to the Giant TCR.
I am going to build the frame up with Rival, still looking for a crankset and wheelset. I'll post pics and ride review when I do.


----------



## kcr

*What frame for road racing?*

Looking to build up something a bit stiffer and lighter than my 11 year old Airborne (looking a bit outdated) for road racing next year. I'm doing it on a budget, so the Chinese carbon frames are interesting.
From studying forums, the FM039, FM098 and FM066 all look possibles. The FM039 and FM098 look very similar, while the FM066 appears to be a bit lighter, and is allegedly made of T1000 fibre, rather than T700 for the other two?
Does anyone have first hand experience of these frames, particularly with respect to racing them? I would like to get some idea of how they perform in terms of stiffness, so I could make a decision based on performance, rather than how they look.

I'm also interested in how they compare to some of the badged frames from the mainstream retailers. The Canyon CF 9.0 is currently around 1900 Euros for an Ultegra build. I don't think this would actuallly be a huge amount more than a complete build on one of the Chinese frames, so the Chinese carbon frames may not necessarily be the best deal.

Any first hand experience to help with a decision gratefully received!


----------



## greenjt

tomr said:


> Hey just looking at buying a FM012 TT frame but Im having trouble choose between a 52 or a 54.
> 
> Ive been using my road bike for tt's this year by using an ajustable stem to drop the front end. Now im looking at building a tt setup and I realise theres still alot of work to do. Ignoring the fact that I need to drop my neck to stop my helmet sticking miles into the air im trying to decided whether to go for a frame with a smaller top tube. Pictured is a 54.5mm with the ajustable stem giving me effectively around 90mm of reach. Would I be better with a 52? Theres still a little way to go in terms of dropping the front end (I think!) further stretching out my position.
> 
> www4.clikpic.com/chrisleesphotography/images/IMG_6478001.jpg
> 
> Cheers


I am looking at the same frame set but needed to decide between 56 and 54. If i were you I would compare the stack and reach of this frame plus where your saddle sits relative to the bottom bracket (effective seat tube anlge) and go from there. This frame is a 76 degree seat tube. Assuming your road bike is 73ish but you may have your saddle forward. I am comparing this to my existing 53cm top tube 78 degree tri bike and when i correct for effective seat tube angle to bring this frame into where I currently ride, I find i am better off on the 56 in this frame than the 54 because i would need to move the saddle approximately three centimeters forward at my saddle height to approximate my current position effectively matching my current top tube. The stack on the 56 also better matches the effective stack on my current set up. 

Let me know if you order and from where... i am still mulling it over but hope to pull trigger very soon.


----------



## tenderous

Tharriga said:


> Hi, after reading what seems like a billion posts from this series I decided to pull the trigger on a chinese carbon frame. I initially tried for the dengfu FM028 but they told me it was no longer available in BSA (after I had paid, of course).


I believe you could have got the FM029 in BSA - only difference is internal cable routing, which you may or may not have wanted.


----------



## mfuchs

*Kode*



preacher35 said:


> Jakak, I have purchased several items from Johnson KD. Ruby (her real name is CuiMei) is wonderful! Her communication is the best of any Chinese companies that I have dealt with to date. I have purchased painted and non-painted frames from her as well as components. My last purchase was two frames, handlebar and seatpost. I received the order eight days after purchase (via EMS). Regardless of ship time, I was skeptical about paint when I made my first purchase for a painted frame. However, my fears were quickly extinguished when I received it. The paint was as good as any that I have seen from the Euro or American manufacturers. I am not the only one that has purchased from Ruby at Johnson KD. MFUCHS (you can search his posts) has ordered from her as well and I know that he was happy with his purchases.
> 
> Hope that helps!


I've had mine for almost a year now. Absolutely no problems at all. Ruby was great and they were the only company that didn't want money upfront. I would not hesitate to buy another from them and when they get a Di2/EPS ready frame I might pull the trigger again.


----------



## rdt

*Touch Up paint...*

What are you using to touch up a chip on the paint? Got a chip in bottom side of the top tube that is not visible except from straight below. Want to touch it up to prevent it from getting larger. Thanks.


----------



## mfuchs

rdt said:


> What are you using to touch up a chip on the paint? Got a chip in bottom side of the top tube that is not visible except from straight below. Want to touch it up to prevent it from getting larger. Thanks.


If you are asking me I don't use anything. I call them battle scars. I only have one large chip about 1/8 inch in diameter that bothered me at first but now it doesn't. There are a few other smaller nicks but unless you are really looking for them you can't see them.


----------



## alexb618

mrcreosote said:


> initially
> 
> FLYXI
> 
> and
> 
> Wholesale Price Full Carbon Track Frame,Carbon Bicycle Frame - Buy Track Frame,Wholesale Price,Carbon Track Frame Product on Alibaba.com
> 
> but also since found
> 
> Tp-r810 Carbon Frame - Buy Carbon Frame,Carbon Track Bicycle Frame,Carbon Bike Frame Product on Alibaba.com
> Full Carbon Frame,Carbon Track Frame - Buy Carbon Track Frame,Bicycle Carbon Track Frame,Track Frame Carbon Product on Alibaba.com


i have ordered a track frame in the last week or so, ill put a pic and some info up once it arrives and i build/race it a bit


----------



## mrcreosote

alexb618 said:


> i have ordered a track frame in the last week or so, ill put a pic and some info up once it arrives and i build/race it a bit


Thanks.

MrC


----------



## ms6073

Ordered FM059 disc cyclocross framesets from Dengfu in China back mid May which were shipped last Tuesday and I was able to pick the box with the frames up from the USPS this morning. Took a quick snapshot of the frames (image below) and a quick inspection reveals that the internal cable ports for the rear brake cable are plumbed for mechanical brakes. Rumor has it SRAM will have hydraulic Red shifters/brakes very soon but when road hydaulic becomes available, I will have to carefully drill out the cable bosses which I may due anyway to run a full length housing to the rear brake. Inspection of the contents of the box and I found 2 frames (size 52 & 56), 2 forks, 2 seat post clamps, and the 2 extra deraileur hangers I requested but no headsets (not surprised). So while I did not yet weigh the forks, I was pleasantly surprised to find the weights a tad less than advertised with the size 52 weighing 1240 grams and the 56 weighing in at 1270 grams.


----------



## independentmind

They often forget the headsets, email them right away and it shouldn't be an issue


----------



## MTBMaven

FTR said:


> Amedal
> From experience, you may not want their idea of matte paint.
> Mine turned up as basically paint with no cleat coat.
> It looked shabby in no time at all.


FTR and other, curious if you tried to protect the matte finish with anything. I've been poking around the interwebs and people seem to like three primary things: 303, automotive wax, and Pledge. A reference in this thread mentions that 303 preserves the matte look: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/general-cycling-discussion/wax-your-bike-260170.html

My FM-098 arrived today. The paint scheme looks better than I thought it would actually, so I'm pleased there. That said, I am concerned about the matte UD finish, which is basically just black paint, and matte paint, all without any clear coat. It does seem like something that will get smudged pretty quickly.and the paint may chip easily without any clear coat. I can see the wax keeping the smudges at bay but can't imagine it will do much to keep the paint from chipping.

Clear coating seem like a good option at this point?


----------



## abx400

*how do you say "flyxii"*

when people ask what kind of bike i have i dont know what to say, how do you pronounce Flyxii :

"fly twelve" ?
"fly x eye eye" ?
"flix two" ?
"flix eye eye" ?
"flixee" ?
"fly's eye" ?

sorry if this exists here somewhere, searching "pronounce" + "flyxii" = no results


----------



## FTR

MTBMaven said:


> FTR and other, curious if you tried to protect the matte finish with anything. I've been poking around the interwebs and people seem to like three primary things: 303, automotive wax, and Pledge. A reference in this thread mentions that 303 preserves the matte look: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/general-cycling-discussion/wax-your-bike-260170.html
> 
> My FM-098 arrived today. The paint scheme looks better than I thought it would actually, so I'm pleased there. That said, I am concerned about the matte UD finish, which is basically just black paint, and matte paint, all without any clear coat. It does seem like something that will get smudged pretty quickly.and the paint may chip easily without any clear coat. I can see the wax keeping the smudges at bay but can't imagine it will do much to keep the paint from chipping.
> 
> Clear coating seem like a good option at this point?


I did use some automotive wax but am not convinced it did much.


----------



## mrcreosote

abx400 said:


> when people ask what kind of bike i have i dont know what to say, how do you pronounce Flyxii :
> 
> "fly twelve" ?
> "fly x eye eye" ?
> "flix two" ?
> "flix eye eye" ?
> "flixee" ?
> "fly's eye" ?
> 
> sorry if this exists here somewhere, searching "pronounce" + "flyxii" = no results


flyzee?


----------



## chompychomps

I say flyxee


----------



## beij

*FM066 review*

Update from my previous review, I've done a number of centuries and regular group rides and it is simply a faster and more comfortable bike than my old FM028. I have noticed on fast downhills I have to pay more attention as the steering is very direct, twitchy. Other than that this, which I am getting used to, can't fault it. My biggest gain is in the sprint sections of our group rides where I tend to get dropped, I keep in touch now and feel more confident of not loosing the group. One last thing, may be obvious but the frame comes in two different versions, one that is compatible with both Di2 and regular and the other, of which I think mine is, is not Di2 compatible so you may want to confirm which one you want before ordering.


----------



## djtodd

djtodd said:


> Bit the bullet and pulled the trigger on my FM028 frame. Ordered from Carbonzone via eBay. They threw in a pair of rear derailler hangars.
> 
> I'm going to move all of the needed components from my Giant Defy, but I realize that my seat post is probably the wrong diameter and my existing front derailler is braze instead of clamp. But I'm going to have my local shop of choice do the build for me.
> 
> Can't wait to move to my matte black "stealth bomber".


The joys of being impatient. Still hasn't shipped yet, but its only been 3 business days in China. Hopefully it will go out "tonight". Though they have promised it will ship this week. 

I'm already planning the "conversion"... Replacing the cables with premium quality, new colour bar tape, etc.


----------



## hotflash

kngr8 said:


> Hi, can you tell me what frame is this and where you buy it?
> Thanks


this is the fr-315 from flyxii.com (aka a_bayzone on ebay).


----------



## YamaDan

Thinking of a 039..

I have a Merlin Extralight, Ultegra group.. but it's old and out dated. Thinking of selling it and building up the 039. 

Am I insane or on the right track?

Should I sell the complete bike or just the frame and keep the componets, or do a full redo?

Bars? Stem and Integrated bar, or stem and bar? Been lurking through all this stuff over the past week.I think I'm more confused than ever.

Add to that, I'm riding a Tarmac for a loaner bike right now, thats a nice ride.

A lot has changed in the past 10 years..


----------



## canemaster

beij said:


> Update from my previous review, I've done a number of centuries and regular group rides and it is simply a faster and more comfortable bike than my old FM028. I have noticed on fast downhills I have to pay more attention as the steering is very direct, twitchy. Other than that this, which I am getting used to, can't fault it. My biggest gain is in the sprint sections of our group rides where I tend to get dropped, I keep in touch now and feel more confident of not loosing the group. One last thing, may be obvious but the frame comes in two different versions, one that is compatible with both Di2 and regular and the other, of which I think mine is, is not Di2 compatible so you may want to confirm which one you want before ordering.


Hey thanks for the review! I paid for mine in the 3rd of August and it has yet to ship so I'm anxious to get it! They actually emailed me and told me that if I chose the Di2 compatible version that I would get it sooner. Do you know what the differences are?


----------



## MXL

I feel ya, but it seems if it needed a drain hole, it would already have one.


----------



## robpar

*MT-MC008 question*

Ok; I thought about posting in the chinese frame thread but I figured it would get lost...

How many of you that have the MC008 frame have experienced problems with the location of the RD cable stop? It's located on the SIDE of the chainstay and a couple of users have said their heel hits it when pedaling...
Can any other owners of frames that share this same characteristic provide input?
I would appreciate any feedback.
Thank you


----------



## Missbaksel

Ive been looking for some good aero/tt bars from china but i can't really find a supplier for it. Does anyone know one?

kind regards!


----------



## Tranzition

Looks like http://dengfubikes.com/ updated their site... FM029 is now listed, but it's hard to tell if it's an ISP or non-ISP...


----------



## tarzan13

Tranzition said:


> Looks like dengfubikes updated their site... FM029 is now listed, but it's hard to tell if it's an ISP or non-ISP...


photo is definitely ISP
http://yangd.ninthspaces.com:8080/i...ategory_id=10&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=69


----------



## Tranzition

tarzan13 said:


> photo is definitely ISP


Can anyone confirm if there's a non-ISP version of the FM029?


----------



## robc in wi

robpar said:


> Ok; I thought about posting in the chinese frame thread but I figured it would get lost...
> 
> How many of you that have the MC008 frame have experienced problems with the location of the RD cable stop? It's located on the SIDE of the chainstay and a couple of users have said their heel hits it when pedaling...
> Can any other owners of frames that share this same characteristic provide input?
> I would appreciate any feedback.
> Thank you


I have a 54cm 008 and don't hit the cable stop but it is kind of close. My natural pedaling position has my heels slightly outward not inward.


----------



## tarzan13

Tranzition said:


> Can anyone confirm if there's a non-ISP version of the FM029?


Looks like it

NON ISP
full inside cable carbon road bicycle frame FM029 non-isp - Detailed info for full inside cable carbon road bicycle frame FM029 non-isp,road frame,full inside cable carbon road bicycle frame FM029 non-isp,FM029 on Alibaba.com

ISP
dengfu FM029-isp full inside cable carbon road bicycle frame - Detailed info for dengfu FM029-isp full inside cable carbon road bicycle frame,road bicycle frame,dengfu FM029-isp full inside cable carbon road bicycle frame,FM029 on Alibaba.com


----------



## robpar

robc in wi said:


> I have a 54cm 008 and don't hit the cable stop but it is kind of close. My natural pedaling position has my heels slightly outward not inward.


I'm on the fence about this frame; the geo fits, but in all my bikes my heel barely misses hitting the chainstay. My right foot motion is "toes out" and it looks like the RD stop on the MC008 sticks out quite a bit... I communicated this to the Miracle Trade but they say "nobody has mentioned this before"... isn't weird to have the RD stop on the side?
I wonder how hard it is to move it to the bottom of chain stay?

Anybody else out there?

Thanks for the feedback


----------



## clayfree

Tranzition said:


> Can anyone confirm if there's a non-ISP version of the FM029?


Yes they make a non-ISP FM029. I just finished building mine. Will post pictures.

EDIT: I should also add that DengFu has a better listing of their frames on Alibaba. That's where I found the 029 back in July when I ordered it. They show quite a few painted frames also. All of my communication was with Martina and everything went smoothly. Took about 11 days from order until shipping and transit from China to Texas was only 4 days.


----------



## MTBMaven

I want to replace the bolt on my FM-098 seat post. The stock bolt is a pig. Is this a standard bolt commonly used for some other bike part?


----------



## Coldbrook

Hey folks,

Which of the Chinese frames do you think is the *stiffest?* Punishingly stiff is good, I don't care about ride quality, I need it for a stationary trainer.


Background: I need a bike to put semi-permanently on my Lemond Revolution trainer that I just bought (this is the trainer that has a cassette on it, and the bike's rear dropouts bolt directly to the trainer). My current aluminum trainer bike flexes alarmingly on the Lemond, but it really is a terrific unit so I'm sticking with it and finding a bike just for it. Winter is coming!

thanks!


----------



## svard75

Coldbrook said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> Which of the Chinese frames do you think is the *stiffest?* Punishingly stiff is good, I don't care about ride quality, I need it for a stationary trainer.
> 
> 
> Background: I need a bike to put semi-permanently on my Lemond Revolution trainer that I just bought (this is the trainer that has a cassette on it, and the bike's rear dropouts bolt directly to the trainer). My current aluminum trainer bike flexes alarmingly on the Lemond, but it really is a terrific unit so I'm sticking with it and finding a bike just for it. Winter is coming!
> 
> thanks!


I've got an FM015 from hongfu weigh over 200lbs and find it plenty stiff. I think most of the guys here would say the same for their frames. I think you should probably consider geometry esp for a trainer. You'll want a fairly comfortable riding position during those 5hr sweat sessions watching video after video from the sufferfest


----------



## f3rg

Coldbrook said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> Which of the Chinese frames do you think is the *stiffest?*


I can _only_ speak for the FM015 since it's the only Chinese carbon frame I've owned, but it's extremely stiff (though, still comfortable). I regularly do 100%-output sprints up hills in my big ring (no surprise, I'm a sprinter), and there doesn't seem to be even the slightest flex in the BB area.


----------



## djtodd

djtodd said:


> The joys of being impatient. Still hasn't shipped yet, but its only been 3 business days in China. Hopefully it will go out "tonight". Though they have promised it will ship this week.
> 
> I'm already planning the "conversion"... Replacing the cables with premium quality, new colour bar tape, etc.


I've ordered my frame from Carbonzone off eBay, and I've been given a tracking number. However, it seems to have been "stuck" on this status for a few days:

2012-08-29 22:45:02 SHENZHEN Despatch from Sorting Center

Just looking to see if I should expect any updates until its delivered, and curious about the communities experiences with the tracking.


----------



## svard75

djtodd said:


> I've ordered my frame from Carbonzone off eBay, and I've been given a tracking number. However, it seems to have been "stuck" on this status for a few days:
> 
> 2012-08-29 22:45:02 SHENZHEN Despatch from Sorting Center
> 
> Just looking to see if I should expect any updates until its delivered, and curious about the communities experiences with the tracking.


Plug the tracking number into your local delivery service website. For example if you live in the US go to usps.com.


----------



## djtodd

svard75 said:


> Plug the tracking number into your local delivery service website. For example if you live in the US go to usps.com.


Nothing yet, but it does recognize the tracking number!


----------



## canemaster

Try waiting 30 days....

I placed my order and paid on the 3rd of August for my 066 from DengFu.

They haven't even shipped it yet...

Anyone know the time period I'm given for a paypal claim?


----------



## djtodd

canemaster said:


> Try waiting 30 days....
> 
> I placed my order and paid on the 3rd of August for my 066 from DengFu.
> 
> They haven't even shipped it yet...
> 
> Anyone know the time period I'm given for a paypal claim?


45 days if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## Erik_A

I have been wading through this excellent thread. In order to narrow it down,what are the 3 best cyclocross Chinese carbon frame models? I am looking for a 50-51cm top tube size.

Also, I have heard the best prices can be had by emailing the manufacturer direct. Does anyone have the email contacts?


----------



## mrcreosote

djtodd said:


> I've ordered my frame from Carbonzone off eBay, and I've been given a tracking number. However, it seems to have been "stuck" on this status for a few days:
> 
> 2012-08-29 22:45:02 SHENZHEN Despatch from Sorting Center
> 
> Just looking to see if I should expect any updates until its delivered, and curious about the communities experiences with the tracking.


probably on a container ship half way across the pacific


----------



## ms6073

canemaster said:


> Try waiting 30 days....
> 
> I placed my order and paid on the 3rd of August for my 066 from DengFu.
> 
> They haven't even shipped it yet...
> 
> Anyone know the time period I'm given for a paypal claim?


the FM066 is a new frame for Dengfu so if it has not passed testing in the size you ordered, then it is not yet being manufactured. I ordered two FM059 disc cross framesets in May and just received them last Tuesday - well past the 45-day PayPal dispute period.


----------



## amedal

Quick question for all you bike building gurus around here...

I found a decently priced set of 725 tektro brakes. I only really need the rear caliper so I can mount it under the BB (fm-018 from DengFu) but the price for the whole set is reasonable. Initial plan was just to get the rear 725 and just purchase a regular caliper for the front. However, now I'm wondering if I can just buy that set and mount that 725 sidepull front caliper on the front of my fork and call it a day...

Anything wrong with that approach? I'm not intending to modify it into a center pull, just thinking about installing it as it is, a sidepull, no mods. I'm well aware the front 725 was intended to be set up behind the fork, but would there be any problems mounting it as a regular set up on the front of my fork?

Thanks!!
A


----------



## robpar

robc in wi said:


> I have a 54cm 008 and don't hit the cable stop but it is kind of close. My natural pedaling position has my heels slightly outward not inward.


Thanks for the input.
I contacted the manufacturer and they will change the location of the RD stop to the bottom of the chainstay. It will take a couple of weeks but they will implement this change in all their new MT MC008 frames! They will send a picture to confirm location.

I have to say, the communication and response from Miracle Trade (or Sports) has been outstanding so far... just a couple of minor language barrier issues but were solved with pictures...


----------



## hotflash

This is my first roadbike, the flyxii fr-315. 
It feels pro, but I have yet to shave my legs...


----------



## MTBMaven

canemaster said:


> Try waiting 30 days....
> 
> I placed my order and paid on the 3rd of August for my 066 from DengFu.
> 
> They haven't even shipped it yet...
> 
> Anyone know the time period I'm given for a paypal claim?


I participated in a VeloBuild group buy and got custom paint. Took over 2 months to get my FM-098. And it was not clear coated. I hope to get it to the paint guy in a few days. All the parts are just sitting there waiting for me to build the bike.


----------



## 3Kcarbon

hotflash said:


> This is my first roadbike, the flyxii fr-315.
> It feels pro, but I have yet to shave my legs...


Cool - looks like it was just beamed down from heaven!


----------



## russd32

Gotta ***** this thing out again. I built it this spring so I've put some miles and can say that I'm so glad I pulled the trigger. 

I bought the frame from Carbonzone on ebay and I was thoroughly pleased with them. Good communication, good photos, geometry, total price was competitive with everyone else, shipping was pretty fast, and they had everything else I wanted.

I ended up buying the FM028 frame, fork, headset, extra derailleur hanger, 2 carbon cages, and a seatpost clamp. The quality of everything has been great, the only problem I had was that my headset bearings didn't drop right into the frame so I had to remove a little clearcoat to get them to fit which wasn't a huge deal. 

I was riding a 56cm Felt F55. I loved that frame but it did ride a little harsh. Plus on top of being a little small for me the geometry was a little too aggressive for me. It had a short headtube which put too much weight on my wrists and that was compounded by my seat being way up in the air since the frame was too small. I weighed my options and I could have either bought another used Felt frame in 58, traded it in, or bought a China bike. So I did a bunch of research on bike fitment and took a bunch of measurements and made a choice. I landed on what Trek considers their H2 fitment, which is basically a race bike with a taller headtube to give you the same effect as a bunch of spacers without the goofy looks, sorta like the Roubaix. Once I found that I compared all of the China frames geometry and decided the FM028 was the frame for me. I already had the DA7800 group from the Felt so I reused that with the wheels and brakes. In total I ended up spending about $1000 on the frame/fork and the rest of the new parts. Pretty good bang for the buck considering I bought the F55 for $800 about 3 years ago and sold off the unused parts for about $400. So all together I'd estimate I've got about $1400 in it. 

58cm FM028 in 12k gloss
DA7800 shifters, derailleurs, and cassette
FSA carbon crankset and Exo BB
KMC Mr.T-special chain
Tektro somethingerother brakes
Deda post, stem, bars, tape
Romin 155mm saddle 
Mavic Aksiums with Nashbar closeout Hutchinson tires (sometimes Ksyriums with Vittoria Evo somethingerothers) 
Eggbeaters
Token red spacers, cap, bolts, chain catcher, cable adjusters
Jagwire cables
Garmin Edge 200
carbon cages


----------



## boboxx

Could anyone with a FM028/FM029 confirm some measurement for me? I'm looking for the measurement of the BB center to the top of the top tube on a 58cm. I have asked Dengfu a few times but it's like pulling teeth!

I just want to make sure I don't order a bike that is to small or to big for me.

I'm looking at ordering a FM029 ISP
http://dengfubikes.com/index.php?pa...category_id=10&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1


----------



## ericTheHalf

boboxx said:


> Could anyone with a FM028/FM029 confirm some measurement for me? I'm looking for the measurement of the BB center to the top of the top tube on a 58cm. I have asked Dengfu a few times but it's like pulling teeth!
> 
> I just want to make sure I don't order a bike that is to small or to big for me.
> 
> I'm looking at ordering a FM029 ISP
> http://dengfubikes.com/index.php?pa...category_id=10&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1


There have got to be the geometry diagrams for the FM028 in one of these threads. When I got my 60cm, that was the first thing Dengfu sent me. The diagram for the 58cm is not here, but at the bottom of the page are all of the measurements. FM028 Bike Frame Geometry | Cheap Carbon Frames
It looks like that site has been hacked. Or maybe someone is trying to tell me I need ******.


----------



## russd32

boboxx said:


> Could anyone with a FM028/FM029 confirm some measurement for me? I'm looking for the measurement of the BB center to the top of the top tube on a 58cm. I have asked Dengfu a few times but it's like pulling teeth!
> 
> I just want to make sure I don't order a bike that is to small or to big for me.
> 
> I'm looking at ordering a FM029 ISP
> http://dengfubikes.com/index.php?pa...category_id=10&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1


I just went and measured mine and it's 53.5cm due to the sloping top tube. If I measure from the center of the BB to the top of the frame where the seatpost is inserted it 58.5cm. I think I still have the geometry chart Carbonzone sent me if you want me to email it to you.


----------



## clayfree

boboxx said:


> Could anyone with a FM028/FM029 confirm some measurement for me? I'm looking for the measurement of the BB center to the top of the top tube on a 58cm. I have asked Dengfu a few times but it's like pulling teeth!
> 
> I just want to make sure I don't order a bike that is to small or to big for me.
> 
> I'm looking at ordering a FM029 ISP
> http://dengfubikes.com/index.php?pa...category_id=10&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1


Boboxx,
I just measured my 58cm 029 and from the center of the BB to the top of the top tube(just in front of the seat tube) I measure 53cm.

Hope this helps


----------



## boboxx

Cool thanks!


----------



## jmalcolm

Good grief. FM066 is taking FOREVER to ship. I ordered this thing 3 months ago? Hung Fu. Is that normal? I hate to rush them because I want it built right but I've also thought about just cancelling the order. I find myself cruising the internet looking for last season's R5 or R3 on sale.


----------



## brs1986

View attachment 264321
View attachment 264322
View attachment 264323


Dengfu fm015 framset
White SRAM apex shifters and brakes
SRAM rival front and rear dérailleur 
Fsa gossamer pro compact

New wheels to come

Have about 700 miles on the frame. Very responsive and stiff. 

Not for sure about the white pin stripe. Overall I love the bike.


----------



## clayfree

Nice! The white stem is a great touch.


----------



## ptsbike55

The dog is a nice touch.


----------



## canemaster

I just got my FM066 superlight.
Anyone know what frame it is modeled after?


----------



## MShaw

FM066 looks a LOT like an R5

Just sayin

M


----------



## greenjt

I just ordered the AC-012 TT frame set from ICAN (also sold as MC-012 and FLX-FR-105 etc. by other suppliers). A couple of comments about the process... First, I am fairly certain ICAN=Miracle. Second, i ordered from ICAN for one reason - quality of service. After contacting multiple suppliers, I found Anna at ICAN provided the best/most accurate and timely communication. She answered all my questions (I had some mission critical questions on the frame), and was patient and very helpful with getting the custom paint and logos right. I didn't recognize any language barrier. I am hoping the remainder of the process goes as smoothly.

Seems most on this board are going for the plain carbon or matte finish. For anybody wondering about the custom paint/logo process... I did a crude mock-up of my paint design using a picture of the frame from their website edited in windows Paint. I then cut and pasted it into Powerpoint to do the logos. Once i had something that was close, I emailed it to Anna who emailed back overnight a much nicer looking version from their graphic designer. From there we did a few rounds back and forth of tweeking the logo fonts and size etc. until it was exactly what i was looking for. I actually was using 4 different logos with three different fonts over green/white/clearcoat 3k. I gave the final design confirmation this morning so now we will see how long the process takes.

Will update once frame is in hand.


----------



## Crappymonkey

greenjt said:


> Seems most on this board are going for the plain carbon or matte finish. For anybody wondering about the custom paint/logo process... I did a crude mock-up of my paint design using a picture of the frame from their website edited in windows Paint. I then cut and pasted it into Powerpoint to do the logos. Once i had something that was close, I emailed it to Anna who emailed back overnight a much nicer looking version from their graphic designer. From there we did a few rounds back and forth of tweeking the logo fonts and size etc. until it was exactly what i was looking for. I actually was using 4 different logos with three different fonts over green/white/clearcoat 3k. I gave the final design confirmation this morning so now we will see how long the process takes.
> 
> Will update once frame is in hand.


I had a similar paint scheme design experience with Lucky at DengFu. I ordered an FM098 from that other website with the group buys and now I'm just waiting for paint and shipping. You can see some pictures of my design procedure with Lucky on my blog. I decided to wait and do my own logos (probably will be ordered through Marco) once I receive the frame. I plan on doing the build slowly throughout the cold winter months.


----------



## jmalcolm

Yep, Cervelo R5 or R3. Geometry is slightly different also, no internal cables on the Cervelos. Who did you order the FM066 from? How long to did it take for you to receive it from the time of your order?


----------



## amedal

Hey all!

I just wanted to give you guys a heads up on my issue about the frame ordered a few weeks ago from DengFu. As many of you know, my frame was sent in glossy finish instead of matte. So far Ive had very poor communication with Lucky (actually Ive just been ignored for the last 3 weeks or so). 

Lucky agreed that there was a mistake done on their part. She offered some kind of compensation about it but only if I placed another order with them....yeah, I know, I too found that to be insulting and ridiculous. I voiced my disagreement about it to them, havent gotten much of an answer in a while. I tried my best to solve this issue directly with them, clearly Lucky is not that motivated to find a solution. Both Alibaba and Paypal have been involved as of today.

I'll wait for the resolution before I post any more details. As of now I do ask you guys to please, please deal only with Martina or any other rep from DengFu, Lucky is definitely not worth your time. She will not communicate with you, even if things are going wrong. The biggest problem is that if Lucky is the one who handled your transaction, none of the other reps (Martina included) will touch you even with a 10 foot pole. This has been a big issue in the last 4 weeks.

This is just a heads up to you guys who are looking to buy from DengFu. Not a full blown complaint about the whole deal, just bad paint finish and incredibly bad costumer service from Lucky, again Martina was always available, but she refused to help me since she didnt place my order.

I was well aware of what I was getting into when I decided to go Asian on my next frame, so Im sucking it up. Frame is fine and shipment was fast. Just not the paint finish I paid for and ordered.

Ill wait for a resolution from paypal or any other communication from DengFu/Tony and will keep you guys posted.
A


----------



## vX-2

*FR-317 - BMC replica?*

hi guys,

still doing my research, may want to buy a chinese replica here...

I'm really interested in the FR-317 frameset... and I haven't seen anyone in here post anything about it yet. Any feedback/ comment about it will be much appreciated!

Also, in regards to some above postings: what's the difference between counterfeit (cycling yong) ? vs. replica?

Thanks.


----------



## rbart4506

Just started building up my FM-029 in UD matte black...

It is such an awesome looking bike! I must say the fit and finish is definitely improved over the FM-028 I got earlier this year...

I'll post up pics when I get it done!


----------



## kbfore

Crappymonkey said:


> I had a similar paint scheme design experience with Lucky at DengFu. I ordered an FM098 from that other website with the group buys and now I'm just waiting for paint and shipping. You can see some pictures of my design procedure with Lucky on my blog. I decided to wait and do my own logos (probably will be ordered through Marco) once I receive the frame. I plan on doing the build slowly throughout the cold winter months.


Nice paint job. I may rip you off (with minor color changes)


----------



## ptsbike55

> I just got my FM066 superlight.


What size frame is that? Can you show more close-up pictures?


----------



## eidolon

rbart4506 said:


> Just started building up my FM-029 in UD matte black...
> 
> It is such an awesome looking bike! I must say the fit and finish is definitely improved over the FM-028 I got earlier this year...
> 
> I'll post up pics when I get it done!


rbart: What's the quality of the ports for the internal cable routing on the FM029? There were some pics earlier on this thread that rather shoddy looking cable ports (the holes were too big, and then roughly filled in) and I wonder if that's common.

I'm thinking of going down the open mold route, but my understanding is that all these Chinese frames use 3K weave for the internal layers which is inherently weaker than UD layers, so I'm a bit leery of additional holes in the carbon tubes, especially if they are poorly executed and larger than necessary. However, the FM028 with external cable routing seems to be disappearing as an option from the main suppliers.


----------



## Crappymonkey

kbfore said:


> Nice paint job. I may rip you off (with minor color changes)


Thanks. Go ahead :thumbsup:

There are a ton of Baum colour schemes on their Flickr Photo Stream

Yellow and Blue looks pretty sweet too


----------



## cyclist_sg

Hey guys,

This is what I am working on now for the coming 2013 season. 












WEAVE: UD

WEIGHT:510(3k 1120±30g),530(3k 1140±30g),550(3k 1170±30g),580mm(3k 1190±30g)clear coating

Finish: Matt/Glossy/Custom Paint 

HEADSET SIZE: 1-1/8" to 1-1/2", i.e. FSA CF42 

BB: English 68, BB 86 or PF30

Regards,
Pat
PATRICK-Sportec


----------



## rbart4506

eidolon said:


> rbart: What's the quality of the ports for the internal cable routing on the FM029? There were some pics earlier on this thread that rather shoddy looking cable ports (the holes were too big, and then roughly filled in) and I wonder if that's common.
> 
> I'm thinking of going down the open mold route, but my understanding is that all these Chinese frames use 3K weave for the internal layers which is inherently weaker than UD layers, so I'm a bit leery of additional holes in the carbon tubes, especially if they are poorly executed and larger than necessary. However, the FM028 with external cable routing seems to be disappearing as an option from the main suppliers.


The holes look good as far as I'm concerned...

I've got two frames, one for me and one for my wife, and both are top notch...

The one at the BB for FD cable had some debris, but I just pulled out Shoppy (the ShopVac) and it cleaned right up...

I really like the look of the Matte Black...

Been riding an FM-028 for most of the season and love the bike, hence the reason I'm jumping at the FM-029. Plus, the fact it's BSA made it a done deal for me. I'm trying to fight the move to BB30...


----------



## clayfree

rbart4506 said:


> The holes look good as far as I'm concerned...
> 
> I've got two frames, one for me and one for my wife, and both are top notch...
> 
> The one at the BB for FD cable had some debris, but I just pulled out Shoppy (the ShopVac) and it cleaned right up...
> 
> I really like the look of the Matte Black...
> 
> Been riding an FM-028 for most of the season and love the bike, hence the reason I'm jumping at the FM-029. Plus, the fact it's BSA made it a done deal for me. I'm trying to fight the move to BB30...


Same for me. My 029 was easy to cable. I noticed a small blob of what looked like silicone in a couple of the openings. It looked like it had been intentionally put there to protect the cable route maybe during painting. My cables went through without any problem and shifting is smooth. I used a new set of JagWire cables.


----------



## Bonn55ie

I had better get my post count up so I can post some pictures.


----------



## vX-2

cyclist_sg said:


> Hey guys,


how much do you aim to sell them for?


----------



## kweenam

Hi,
Any one see the real thing with painting (not seen anyone carry in the web) - RFM301 (Greatkeen)
Closer to Dogma 2 or dogma 65.1

GreatKeen Bike Sport Equipment Co.,Ltd


----------



## kweenam

*RFM301 GreatKeen*

Hi,

Any one have the real on this RFM301 - From Greatkeen
Closer to Dogma 2 or Dogma 65.1


----------



## vX-2

@kweenam: Design wise, they should be quite similar? 65.1 is an indication to the Materials Toray 65HMK Carbon... As far as I can see, the appearance didn't change... or at least I can't spot it.


----------



## vanskater

vX-2 said:


> hi guys,
> 
> still doing my research, may want to buy a chinese replica here...
> 
> I'm really interested in the FR-317 frameset... and I haven't seen anyone in here post anything about it yet. Any feedback/ comment about it will be much appreciated!
> 
> Also, in regards to some above postings: what's the difference between counterfeit (cycling yong) ? vs. replica?
> 
> Thanks.


counterfeit is something that is a fake and being sold as a real product. ie claming a chinarello is a real pinarello. (this is shady and illegal)

a replica is something that is just a copy and is being sold as a copy. (still "shady" but as long as it is marketed as a replica no illegal)


----------



## vX-2

vanskater said:


> counterfeit is something that is a fake and being sold as a real product. ie claming a chinarello is a real pinarello. (this is shady and illegal)
> 
> a replica is something that is just a copy and is being sold as a copy. (still "shady" but as long as it is marketed as a replica no illegal)


Agree with your comment to some extend , but I think it's all just about branding.... 
Anyways, don't we all already know that it's not authentic when we're buying it from an online store where it's being shipped from China.


----------



## djtodd

Finally got the frame installed, though the blue bar tape has to go. Apologies for the bad camera phone pic.


----------



## robpar

djtodd said:


> Finally got the frame installed, though the blue bar tape has to go. Apologies for the bad camera phone pic.


Hmmm... I'd be concerned about the extreme number of spacers below the stem... from most of the stuff I have researched (varies with manufacturers) most suggest having no more than about 40mm of spacers in a carbon steerer.. others say no more than the diameter of the steerer tube (28-30mm) 
I'm sure there is a substantial safety factor in those numbers but they are there for a reason...


----------



## djtodd

robpar said:


> Hmmm... I'd be concerned about the extreme number of spacers below the stem... from most of the stuff I have researched (varies with manufacturers) most suggest having no more than about 40mm of spacers in a carbon steerer.. others say no more than the diameter of the steerer tube (28-30mm)
> I'm sure there is a substantial safety factor in those numbers but they are there for a reason...


Those are there pre-fit. On Friday I'm getting re-fitting and I'm sure that some will disappear. After riding it a couple of ~15k short rides it feels like the saddle should be a touch higher and the bars a touch lower. 

The wrench was just mimicking the settings on my Giant Defy with a grain of salt.


----------



## canemaster

jmalcolm said:


> Yep, Cervelo R5 or R3. Geometry is slightly different also, no internal cables on the Cervelos. Who did you order the FM066 from? How long to did it take for you to receive it from the time of your order?


Went through Dengfu. It took a month from when I paid but shipping only took 3 days... If you are lucky enough to contact them daily to get the details sorted out, it should only take a week. My back-and-forth emails were 3-4 days apart.



ptsbike55 said:


> What size frame is that? Can you show more close-up pictures?


It's supposed to be a 54cm but I haven't measured it honestly :frown2:. I should probably do that just to confirm. Here are more pics
<img style="-webkit-user-select: none; cursor: -webkit-zoom-in; " src="https://i.imgur.com/hsMax.jpg" width="309" height="517">
<img style="-webkit-user-select: none; cursor: -webkit-zoom-in; " src="https://i.imgur.com/Fcpm4.jpg" width="309" height="517">
<img style="-webkit-user-select: none; cursor: -webkit-zoom-in; " src="https://i.imgur.com/XcX9j.jpg" width="309" height="517">
<img style="-webkit-user-select: none; cursor: -webkit-zoom-in; " src="https://i.imgur.com/Cyu8L.jpg" width="309" height="517">
<img style="-webkit-user-select: none; cursor: -webkit-zoom-in; " src="https://i.imgur.com/hM53j.jpg" width="309" height="517">


----------



## Boombaux

checking in again, this is where the bike is at currently
the saddle didn't fit the deng fu seatpost so i had it machined out. even if it ends up failing, the saddle was $50 and the post $30. something that bothers me though, if you put a bit of force on the very nose of the saddle the whole thing will tilt. i guess i could tighten it but i'd rather not crush the rails. 
has anyone thought about building these up nice and reselling at a profit? complete with a rival groupset and vuelta slr wheelset, it'll be about $1750 and 15-16 pounds.


----------



## amedal

Just out of curiosity...

What brand/model frame does DengFu's FM-018 frame replicate?

Thanx!
A


----------



## Boombaux

does anyone know the seat tube diameter on the fm029? sram rival only comes with braze on so i'll need to get an adaptor


----------



## tmmartins

Boombaux said:


> does anyone know the seat tube diameter on the fm029? sram rival only comes with braze on so i'll need to get an adaptor


Does this mean the FM029 is a clamp on frame. I'm glad I didn't buy my FD yet because I thought it was braze on. Can anyone tell us what it is?


----------



## Boombaux

tmmartins said:


> Does this mean the FM029 is a clamp on frame. I'm glad I didn't buy my FD yet because I thought it was braze on. Can anyone tell us what it is?


looks like it's 34.9


----------



## rbart4506

Buy whatever FD you want and just use the clamp...

This way if you end up getting a braze on frame in the future you have the FD...

And yes it's 34.9...


----------



## Kestreljr

*Start a Bike Store - Only sell Chinese Frames*

So the post on the bike shop refusing to work on Chinese parts got me thinking. Why wouldn't a bike store open up and just sell the ever living [email protected] out of Chinese bikes? I am sure you could get the frames at even deeper discounts if you are buying in bulk. 

Maybe come up with your own labeling, maybe not. The cycling community is so tight, I think people would quickly hear about it and come by to see. I think that the market for these is HUGE if people could see it, touch it, ride it, before they buy. You could do the same mark-up, and the customer would still save what, $3,000 to $5,000 on similarly equipped bikes? 

I know warranty work wouldn't be there, but I think the margins could cover that if the shop wanted to make it right for customer. Also, I think you could work out a bit of a warranty if you are buying enough bikes from the Chinese maker.


----------



## Boombaux

is there anything special i need to do before installing internally routed cables?


----------



## chompychomps

Nothing much for internal cables, probably new branded liners such as jagwire.. if you want smoother transmission.. some people report a rattling noise with the stock liners and cables and after installing the branded stuff they went away..


----------



## Boombaux

do you mean that come with the groupset? i didn't get any housing with the frame


----------



## pulser955

Some one is already doing it. Its called Performance and they just sick Scattante stickers on them. Or you have Pricepoint with Settie. Or you QBP with Foundry Cycles. Or any other bike company having frames made in China and putting here own stickers on the frames.


----------



## Bremerradkurier

November Bicycles as well, albeit without a storefront.


----------



## tlg

Kestreljr said:


> I know warranty work wouldn't be there, but I think the margins could cover that if the shop wanted to make it right for customer. Also, I think you could work out a bit of a warranty if you are buying enough bikes from the Chinese maker.


People aren't going to want to buy a bike from a shop with no warranty. 
Work out a deal with the Chinese maker? Good luck on that and getting them to honor the deal when you try to make a claim.

Then there's the issue of liability. If one of those bikes breaks during use and severely injurs or kills the rider, you're going to get sued. They're not going to go after the Chinese maker.


----------



## SlurpeeKing

it would be very difficult to determine if a bike failed and killed a rider.


----------



## tlg

SlurpeeKing said:


> it would be very difficult to determine if a bike failed and killed a rider.


No it wouldn't. Engineers can determine if the frame was designed and/or manufactured properly. 
Which is irrelevant anyway. Whether it's determined or not... you can still be sued. Perhaps by these guys....

New York Bicycle Frame Failure Lawyer | Product Liability Attorney New York City | NY


> We have investigated and litigated claims against the following manufactuters:
> 
> Orbea
> Litespeed
> Cervelo
> In recent years, many defective bicycle components and frames were made in China. Weakness in the top tube, head tube or down tube can cause serious and catastrophic injuries when riders are traveling at even moderate speeds and riding over level terrain.In addition to the tubing, forks can fail as well.
> 
> Other bicycle accidents occur because metal bike components were not properly welded together. Whatever caused your bicycle accident, our attorneys will work with you personally to help you chart a strategic and thoughtful legal course. We are experienced trial attorneys with access to a network of expert witnesses in engineering, bicycle design and other relevant topics. We give every client personal attention from an experienced product liability lawyer.
> 
> We have had claims for the following bicycle parts:
> 
> Defective design of head tubing
> Manufacturing defect in the carbon fiber of the head tube
> Manufacturing defect in the carbon fiber of the fork


----------



## SlurpeeKing

tlg said:


> you can still be sued.


This is true.


----------



## Kestreljr

tlg said:


> Then there's the issue of liability. If one of those bikes breaks during use and severely injurs or kills the rider, you're going to get sued.


If you don't do something because you might get sued, then don't start any small business.


----------



## tlg

Kestreljr said:


> If you don't do something because you might get sued, then don't start any small business.


Hey, all the power to you. Start a Chinese frame bike shop. Let us know how it works for you.

OTOH, some people have morals and ethics and wouldn't be comfortable selling products to others when they have no idea about the quality standards of said products.

Most small business owners also know about liability, hence they have liability insurance... because they might get sued. Good luck getting insurance for selling questionable Chinese products.


----------



## Kestreljr

pulser955 said:


> Some one is already doing it. Its called Performance and they just sick Scattante stickers on them.


That is a good point, I guess I didn't think of them because I think there is still margins in there for someone to offer these frames cheaper. 

Their MTB carbon frame is $1,300 LINK 

The cheapest scattante carbon frame I found (complete bike) was $2,999


----------



## Kestreljr

tlg said:


> OTOH, some people have morals and ethics and wouldn't be comfortable selling products to others when they have no idea about the quality standards of said products.
> 
> Most small business owners also know about liability, hence they have liability insurance... because they might get sued. Good luck getting insurance for selling questionable Chinese products.


OMG... thanks buddy. Do you think that if I was serious about this I would maybe do a little more research before starting a shop? This is just a forum to throw ideas up to kill time during my lunch hour. You are not on shark tank; I am not asking for your investment; and I don't need any attacks on my ethics or morals. 

Oh- and I am a SBO, so thanks for the advice on liability insurance. Before your enlightenment I had never heard of it. 

I am sure you are a PLEASURE to have a beer with.


----------



## Cyclin Dan

Fezzari


----------



## Jetmugg

If you buy enough of them, you don't need a "factory" warranty. They are only going to replace a defective frame, same as Trek, Giant, etc. You become the point of warranty. If a frame is found to be defective, you abide by the terms of your expressed warranty.

There have been numerous threads here about various manufacturers (from mass produced frames to custom made titanium) not honoring their own warranties.

Regarding product liability lawsuits, having a warranty does nothing to protect you anyway. The warranty is for the product only.

You need good insurance, and a good lawyer on retainer to fight lawsuits.


----------



## tlg

Kestreljr said:


> This is just a forum to throw ideas up to kill time during my lunch hour.


Really? Thought that's what we were doing. No need to get all worked up over it. It is after all... a discussion forum.


> I don't need any attacks on my ethics or morals.


I wasn't attacking your morals. It was a blanket general statement. 



> I am sure you are a PLEASURE to have a beer with.


 What about personal attacks?


----------



## Bremerradkurier

Kestreljr said:


> That is a good point, I guess I didn't think of them because I think there is still margins in there for someone to offer these frames cheaper.
> 
> Their MTB carbon frame is $1,300 LINK
> 
> The cheapest scattante carbon frame I found (complete bike) was $2,999


Scat carbon bikes are regularly on sale with 105 or Ultegra bits $1400 to $1900 in Perf sales flyers.


----------



## Creakyknees

bikesdirect.com

otoh... one could argue that most Specialized dealers are already doing this....


----------



## amedal

Nah, usually cables and housings have to be bought separately... I've used Jagwire Racer kit before and love them. Easy set up and you get everything you need in one package. Both for brakes and shifters...


----------



## FTR

Kestreljr said:


> If you don't do something because you might get sued, then don't start any small business.


Or dont operate or market that business/product in the US.


----------



## turbogrover

somewhere within the 6 chinese carbon message threads, there are pics of a storefront shop in canada, that is already doing there own "house brand" chinese carbon bikes. There are also several ebay stores that sell their own private label bikes, with their own trendy paint and logo schemes. Its easy to do if you have some good capital to start out with.


----------



## cyclist_sg

Hi, 

For bare frame+fork+headset will be going for USD560. Shipping is estimated about USD85-USD100 depending on location.

Additional fee will apply for cutomed color(s) and decaling.

Regards,
Pat


----------



## WTFcyclist

pulser955 said:


> Some one is already doing it. Its called Performance and they just sick Scattante stickers on them. Or you have Pricepoint with Settie. Or you QBP with Foundry Cycles. Or any other bike company having frames made in China and putting here own stickers on the frames.


Put On-One/Planet-X on the list.

http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/08/17/2013-foundry-bikes/
As for "Foundry Cycles," the marketing guy who used to launched and worked on this brand claimed that it is not the same as price-oriented Sette (another brand he helped launch). He claimed that *"What people don’t realize is that there are several quality levels and manufacturing techniques that can be used within the same mold. Foundry has and always will use the highest-grade of carbon with the most advanced (and safest) lay-ups. Foundry also spends a lot of time and money on testing its products, both for compliance and added strength."*

 The problem is that people realized that there are various qualities of carbon fiber and manufacturing techniques. But we never know what you really use!!! Any test result that can verify these claims from the bicycle brands?


----------



## JapanDave

tlg said:


> New York Bicycle Frame Failure Lawyer | Product Liability Attorney New York City | NY


That web site is so wrong on so many levels.


----------



## orange_julius

Kestreljr said:


> So the post on the bike shop refusing to work on Chinese parts got me thinking. Why wouldn't a bike store open up and just sell the ever living [email protected] out of Chinese bikes? I am sure you could get the frames at even deeper discounts if you are buying in bulk.
> 
> Maybe come up with your own labeling, maybe not. The cycling community is so tight, I think people would quickly hear about it and come by to see. I think that the market for these is HUGE if people could see it, touch it, ride it, before they buy. You could do the same mark-up, and the customer would still save what, $3,000 to $5,000 on similarly equipped bikes?
> 
> I know warranty work wouldn't be there, but I think the margins could cover that if the shop wanted to make it right for customer. Also, I think you could work out a bit of a warranty if you are buying enough bikes from the Chinese maker.


As others have said, this is an old idea, with many variations on how one identifies one's products and how one interacts with the manufacturers. Do you want to buy just frames (no exclusivity), or do you want some measure of exclusivity? Big name guys who sell luxury brands like De Rosa want exclusivity for the design, so that then they can market that design as if it came in a dream while their guys in Italy were having their 8th espresso of the day. Or, their engineers optimized for vertical compliance while maintaining race-ready stiffness. On the other hand BikesDirect makes no such pretense. 

For example, check out the history of Steve's Bikes, who I think was one of the first to do this.
http://cyclingiq.com/2011/11/16/vertical-limit-what-just-happened/

So, it's an interesting business idea, but not that novel.


----------



## orange_julius

Or even better, those west coast hipsters who run Ritte. I think it started as sort of a joke, they just buy frames from the far east and have them painted, to sell for an upcharge. But the marketing worked and now it's a legit company. Or, it seems that way. At least in their earlier days they made no pretense out of buying unbranded carbon frames from the far east.


----------



## Kestreljr

orange_julius said:


> Or even better, those west coast hipsters who run Ritte. I think it started as sort of a joke, they just buy frames from the far east and have them painted, to sell for an upcharge. But the marketing worked and now it's a legit company. Or, it seems that way. At least in their earlier days they made no pretense out of buying unbranded carbon frames from the far east.


Ha! Guess you right! This is exactly what I was talking about... 

Everyone suggesting the online retailers- I think having an actual store would be key. 

I guess my point is that I don't want to start a bike store, but if I did, this would seem to be an edge over the others in town. Piss some people off for sure- but most entrepreneurs do.


----------



## Tri Slow Poke

Not sure if the concept would work. Sure, one may sell more product than the Trek dealer down the street. However, there is overhead (rent, utilities, employees) that has to be accounted for. Selling just as many bikes as the Trek dealer isn't going to get it done. You'll have to sell a LOT more to keep the lights on!

Someone mentioned November Bikes who simply have a storage unit in Maryland instead of a store. Neauvation is mostly on line. Both are pretty up front about the orgins of their product. It's certainly doable, but having a storefront presents different challenges.


----------



## danl1

Kestreljr said:


> Ha! Guess you right! This is exactly what I was talking about...
> 
> Everyone suggesting the online retailers- I think having an actual store would be key.
> 
> I guess my point is that I don't want to start a bike store, but if I did, this would seem to be an edge over the others in town. Piss some people off for sure- but most entrepreneurs do.


I would guess that it wouldn't end up working out on the business plan. Limiting your geography would limit your brand; everyone going to check it out would see you were selling 'unknowns.' Most do prefer to buy 'real' brands. So now, your market is doubly limited. That takes out most of your volume discount buying power. So the 'massive' margins you imagine shrink. Then there's keeping the lights on, and the employees showing up, and the insurance guy happy, and the lawyer's retainer paid, and the shrink from warranty backfills (or just plain dealing with the unsaleable parts of the batch) 

Maybe a fun hobby. Tough to imagine as a going concern. Sure as hell isn't going to put the kids through college. 

Take an Internet presence, focus it like Pedal Force or Neuvation, maybe you have a chance - if you can find a way to be known amongst the better-established competitors. 

There are a couple of places - Colorado Cyclist, for example - that have a house brand that sort of fits the model, along with a brick-and-mortar presence - but it's an add-on, not the core of the business.


----------



## orange_julius

Kestreljr said:


> Ha! Guess you right! This is exactly what I was talking about...
> 
> Everyone suggesting the online retailers- I think having an actual store would be key.
> 
> I guess my point is that I don't want to start a bike store, but if I did, this would seem to be an edge over the others in town. Piss some people off for sure- but most entrepreneurs do.


Then you need to think of what it takes to run an actual brick-and-mortar store. Read the Steve's Bike story again. He was basically castigated and excommunicated by his US-based suppliers, and had to revert away from a brick-and-mortar store. 

Remember that to sell bikes you need to have frames, components, accessories to sell. You can get frames for cheap but what about components, including groupsets? You may be forced to have to get all of them from far east sources, and if you do, then you'll be selling far east generic carbon frames with non-brand name groupsets and components. 

Is there a market in this? Probably in the lower price point, which if you go low enough you hit the Walmart price point. Then you'd better compete on volume, because profit per unit will be low. On the other hand you have big box sports stores like REI selling far east brands with brand-name groupsets (or at least partial). 

In case you are not aware yet, OEM pricing is cheaper than wholesale pricing, this skews things against your idea. To put it bluntly, Specialized buys Shimano parts for their bikes at a cheaper price point than a shop owner can.


----------



## jr59

I like to ride to much to start a bike store.

Seems like a lot of work and time for NOT a lot of money in the end!

See Platty!


----------



## Quattro_Assi_07

Kestreljr said:


> So the post on the bike shop refusing to work on Chinese parts got me thinking. Why wouldn't a bike store open up and just sell the ever living [email protected] out of Chinese bikes? I am sure you could get the frames at even deeper discounts if you are buying in bulk.
> 
> Maybe come up with your own labeling, maybe not. The cycling community is so tight, I think people would quickly hear about it and come by to see. I think that the market for these is HUGE if people could see it, touch it, ride it, before they buy. You could do the same mark-up, and the customer would still save what, $3,000 to $5,000 on similarly equipped bikes?
> 
> I know warranty work wouldn't be there, but I think the margins could cover that if the shop wanted to make it right for customer. Also, I think you could work out a bit of a warranty if you are buying enough bikes from the Chinese maker.


Its been successfully done by the importer Willian Lewis with his Quattro Assi house brand. His very first frames (steel) were subcontracted out to Tommasini, then to Kenesis (aluminum) then to Taiwan (aluminum, carbon and titanium), the finally to China (full carbon). All of his frames came with warranties and he stood behind every one of them them 100%, some even if you were not the original owner. My three QAs...


----------



## ptsbike55

PHP:


In case you are not aware yet, OEM pricing is cheaper than wholesale pricing, this skews things against your idea. To put it bluntly, Specialized buys Shimano parts for their bikes at a cheaper price point than a shop owner can

The key is to be able to get the OEM designation. A shop owner is merely a reseller and is not a "manufacturer".


----------



## MShaw

Quattro_Assi_07 said:


> Its been successfully done by the importer Willian Lewis with his Quattro Assi house brand. His very first frames (steel) were subcontracted out to Tommasini, then to Kenesis (aluminum) then to Taiwan (aluminum, carbon and titanium), the finally to China (full carbon). All of his frames came with warranties and he stood behind every one of them them 100%, some even if you were not the original owner. My three QAs...


I've got a Team 2000 QA. Nice riding bike. :thumb

Too bad I dropped it onto my stand and put a dent in the TT. Now its about worthless. :cry

Oh, and talking of lookalikes, clones, and far east manufacturing... Van Dessel's Full Tilt Boogie and November Bicycle's new carbon crosser look *amazingly* similar. 

M


----------



## Crappymonkey

I just got shipping notification on the FM098 I ordered. The custom paint looks good from the picture they sent me. I'm looking forward to seeing it in person whenever it arrives.


----------



## Vee

Crappymonkey said:


> I just got shipping notification on the FM098 I ordered. The custom paint looks good from the picture they sent me. I'm looking forward to seeing it in person whenever it arrives.


Karma awaits you....


----------



## castofone

Bravo! Excellent weight with that frame. 
Is that a Hollowgram sisl?
The cassette doesn't look like a Super Record.
What rims are they?
What pedals are they that you want to change to Kios?


----------



## castofone

You can't cross the shift cables over at the front with internal routing unless the routing is designed for it. If you cross the cables to the opposite sides of the head tube you get a good fair bend and a tidier appearance. You cross the cables back under the down tube. Lots of people prefer that set up.


----------



## castofone

LOve that apple green. Mines just boring old clear coat.


----------



## Russyh

Hi can anyone UK based point me in the direction of a cable guide to suit my Flyxii frame (the type that fits under the BB housing) I have purchased one off the internet but its natural shape doesn't fit my frame.


----------



## Russyh

Hi can anyone UK based point me in the direction of a cable guide to suit my Flyxii frame (the type that fits under the BB housing) I have purchased one off the internet but its natural shape doesn't fit my frame.


----------



## amedal

amedal said:


> Hey all!
> 
> I just wanted to give you guys a heads up on my issue about the frame ordered a few weeks ago from DengFu. As many of you know, my frame was sent in glossy finish instead of matte. So far Ive had very poor communication with Lucky (actually Ive just been ignored for the last 3 weeks or so).
> 
> Lucky agreed that there was a mistake done on their part. She offered some kind of compensation about it but only if I placed another order with them....yeah, I know, I too found that to be insulting and ridiculous. I voiced my disagreement about it to them, havent gotten much of an answer in a while. I tried my best to solve this issue directly with them, clearly Lucky is not that motivated to find a solution. Both Alibaba and Paypal have been involved as of today.
> 
> I'll wait for the resolution before I post any more details. As of now I do ask you guys to please, please deal only with Martina or any other rep from DengFu, Lucky is definitely not worth your time. She will not communicate with you, even if things are going wrong. The biggest problem is that if Lucky is the one who handled your transaction, none of the other reps (Martina included) will touch you even with a 10 foot pole. This has been a big issue in the last 4 weeks.
> 
> This is just a heads up to you guys who are looking to buy from DengFu. Not a full blown complaint about the whole deal, just bad paint finish and incredibly bad costumer service from Lucky, again Martina was always available, but she refused to help me since she didnt place my order.
> 
> I was well aware of what I was getting into when I decided to go Asian on my next frame, so Im sucking it up. Frame is fine and shipment was fast. Just not the paint finish I paid for and ordered.
> 
> Ill wait for a resolution from paypal or any other communication from DengFu/Tony and will keep you guys posted.
> A


UPDATE:

After having the Paypal and Alibaba disputes open for a week, I decided to escalate Paypal's dispute to Claim since I never heard anything back from the seller, in order to get them involved and start up an investigation. Paypal asked me what action was I requesting from the seller. I specified a partial refund of the paint job fees only, I didnt want anything else, just a fair, partial refund of only the paint fees. The frame was fine, additional parts where as requested and shipment was fast.

Alibaba reached me a few days after the dispute was opened. They suggested to let Paypal conduct their dispute/claim process first, and if that didnt give out positive outcome then go ahead and let them know in Alibaba and they would start their process against the seller from their end.

I must say Im incredibly surprised by both Paypal and Alibaba's dispute process and communication. I did feel fully backed up from both of them at all times during this last week. For those of you considering going the eBay route to seek for additional protection for your frame purchase, I can truly tell you that going directly via alibaba has proven to be flawless and just as safe as far as problem resolution procedures ( and cheaper too!). I have absolutely no complaints from their services on attending my issue, I did not miss eBay's buyer protection one bit. I would definately buy directly through Alibaba again. Always through paypal though.

So I escalated the dispute to a Claim via paypal this morning. A few hours later I got the refund I requested from the seller and the dispute was closed immediately. Problem solved, blazing fast.

Again, I had no issues with the frame itself or the shipping, just the wrong paint job finish on it and horrible costumer service from Lucky throught the whole process. Took Paypal's dispute team to get the refund.

If you're going to place your order with DengFu, just make sure you do it through Martina, she was always available to at least hear my case (albeit fully ignored too, since she did not place my order, I was tied to Lucky for anything I needed...). 

Ok, enough of that, time to finally start building!!! 

I will post pics of the bike as soon as I get some decent progress on it!
A


----------



## Tswifty

Vee said:


> Karma awaits you....


Im sorry i might sound a bit vain. But why does Karma await for that paint scheme?


----------



## deepakvrao

OK guys, almost ready to order a Chinese carbon frame. Wanted something with about 54-54.5 eff TT, and 14-15cm head tube. FM028 fits the needs.

Any other suggestions? FM028 is not light. Any particular dealer? Read thru almost all the posts but am still left a bit confused. Currently riding a Pl X Nanolight, but I've screwed up one of the bottle cage mounts.


----------



## Vee

Tswifty said:


> Im sorry i might sound a bit vain. But why does Karma await for that paint scheme?


Looks like the paint scheme was designed to match the current reddit.com paint scheme and jerseys. On reddit karma is saught after. My comment was meant to be understood only by redditors. I may have just assumed too much and this paint scheme matching could have been a coincidence. Maybe the op can verify.


----------



## Crappymonkey

Vee said:


> Looks like the paint scheme was designed to match the current reddit.com paint scheme and jerseys. On reddit karma is saught after. My comment was meant to be understood only by redditors. I may have just assumed too much and this paint scheme matching could have been a coincidence. Maybe the op can verify.


Never been on Reddit before. The colour scheme is based on the Gulf Oil racing livery which is where Reddit probably got it from :thumbsup:


----------



## Vee

Crappymonkey said:


> Never been on Reddit before. The colour scheme is based on the Gulf Oil racing livery which is where Reddit probably got it from :thumbsup:


Cool!

This is reddit's 2012 cycling jersey: https://i.imgur.com/P1wvu.png


----------



## maxxevv

deepakvrao said:


> OK guys, almost ready to order a Chinese carbon frame. Wanted something with about 54-54.5 eff TT, and 14-15cm head tube. FM028 fits the needs.
> 
> Any other suggestions? FM028 is not light. Any particular dealer? Read thru almost all the posts but am still left a bit confused. Currently riding a Pl X Nanolight, but I've screwed up one of the bottle cage mounts.


You can check out the Gotobike's WS02 frameset. It has a somewhat tallish headtube like the FM028, ETT is 54.5cm with a 150 HT, Size 54 equivalent. Weight being 1kg dead-on for UD Gloss and BB30. The wait time for shipping is less than a week if they have stock. Think you can dig up more information on it over at Velobuild.


----------



## deepakvrao

clayfree said:


> I'm about to order an FM029 from DengFu and hope someone can help clarify the finish for me. I want a Matte Black finish like some of the great photos posted here. I'm ordering frameset, seatpost, handlebars and bottle cages and would like them to match. My question is that a painted matte black that I am seeing? Or should I ask for a UD with matte finish?
> 
> Thanks for any replies


Did you order/get the frame?

Looking at the Fm028/029 as these are the only two frames that I find with slightly taller head tubes. 

Need an Eff TT of about 54.5 and headtube of 14.5-15cm.

Any other such relaxed geometry frames out there?


----------



## deepakvrao

Made some posts but they just don't show up. Any moderation for new members?

edit: figured it out. Changed the display mode.


----------



## Crappymonkey

Vee said:


> Cool!
> 
> This is reddit's 2012 cycling jersey: https://i.imgur.com/P1wvu.png



Hmmm... How would one go about ordering one of these? :blush2:


----------



## chompychomps

That reddit jersey seem nice!


----------



## chompychomps

But it seem like you cant order it anymore. It was up for group order earlier this year i guess. The 2013 design is in the works.


----------



## Vee

chompychomps said:


> But it seem like you cant order it anymore. It was up for group order earlier this year i guess. The 2013 design is in the works.


That is correct. They do a short run through Primal Wear each year. They are beginning the design process for the 2013 jerseys now. Last years jerseys can no longer be purchase, but the color scheme should remain close to the same for 2013.


----------



## Bridgey

How good do some of those new Chinarello's look at Great Keen Bikes. I've already got a 2012 Model Chinarello (named Chinarello Mad-Dog), but will dish out for the 2013 model also as my racing bike.

I know they are fakes, replicas or whatever you want to call them. I will have them decaled as above. But have any of you purchased one or heard any reviews on them yet? I've got no concerns with Great Keen Bikes personally. They even warrantied one of the other frames I got from them. Paid to get it fixed vs me sending it back. So they will keep getting my business.


----------



## beij

Regards the recent discussion on people importing these frames, just had an interesting conversation with an insurance agent (in Australia) re public liability he quoted upwards of $3,000 per annum. He added that even if you sell the frames second hand and someone has a crash where the fault was deemed due to the frame then you are liable. This has changed my mind about selling my old FM028 frame. Any comments re liability? No-one would knowingly sell a damaged frame but **** happens so does this leave people liable if someone injures themselves on a second hand frame?


----------



## Charl55es

Give me a call when they're selling 56s!


----------



## Rob81

ready for a new switch
2011: race bike was a FM015, training bike a "bulky" Chinarello
2012: that FM015 became the training bike and I used a FR315 (best frame so far) in racings
2013: the FR315 will probabily become the training bike to give room to the "new" FR316, if the weight should be as claimed (FR315 980g on my scale, FR316 declared to be ~80g lighter)


----------



## Rainerhq

oh my Gooooood!!!


----------



## tommy123

whats wrong with CDHbrad? what a ******r!!!!


----------



## serrone

hi this is my bike mt mc 018 with the new wheels


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## tommy123

*frames from china*

Looking for help and advise! Im loosing my mind looking at frame apon frame, so many different types! Im 6ft 13 and ahalf stone fairly fit, and into triathlons, my last frame size was 55, but im worried about getting a frame in from china and finding out i could of done with a 56 because of that particular make of frame.
Been looking at a few fom Honfu, and dengfu, ebay etc. mainly FM001, 028, 039, pinarello dogma, trying to stick to 450 euro for the frame.
Any insight would be appreciated people.


----------



## Retro Grouch

450 Euros for a Pinarello Dogma? Perhasp for a conterfeit.

My advice is to pay close attnetion to the frame measurents/specifications posted. If not listed, contact the seller and ask for it. Take a tape measure and compare the measurements to the frame you have.

If you are still not confident purchasing a frame from China, buy locally for peace of mind.


----------



## tommy123

Cheers for the advice, i think measuring the bike i have is the best way, at least then you have something to go by when your loking at the spec on another frame.


----------



## robpar

serrone said:


> hi this is my bike mt mc 018 with the new wheels
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us


is there a geo chart for that frame?


----------



## champamoore

That, or a test ride. Just fly on over and ride one before buying!


----------



## Jetwave

*Front derailleur clamp*

I have the ultegra 6600 FD, when I put on the seat tube for a quick fit, the clamp does not seem to be fully rounded to match the seat tube. But when I tighten the clamp screw, it flexes the clamp & to match the seat tube. My main worry is over tightening to damage the carbon fiber. Any suggestions?

I also saw this on ebay and wonder if anybody tried this;

Token TK181 carbon Front Derailleur Clamp 34.9 mm 30.5g | eBay

BTW, my frame is from FLYXII I think model fr-03, still waiting for the carbon fork to arrive.


----------



## beij

https://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh558/beij08/FM06622912_zps5265b2f1.jpg

New Farsport 38mm tubulars (1096grms), new Ritchey WCS stem, brings it down to 14.5 pounds. I found that the Ritchey stem improved front end stiffness and steering precision and felt more confident when descending.


----------



## Russyh

Right cable guide now sorted, Unfortunately the headset suplied with my frame is missing the crown race. i have ordered a replacement from Flyxii, but despite ensuring me it was dispatched still has not been delivered. They have asked me to chase the UK post office, but to be honest it aint going to show up now after nearly a month of sitting somewhere in the UK. So i have decided to order a new headset from a UK supplier. Once i have this i should be able put the bike together as i now have all the bits. However i wont be able to post pics until i get to the magic 10 posts. ha ha


----------



## Russyh

One more thing, can someone please help me with a decent decal maker in the UK. I dont want my bike to be labled up as something its not, so i was hoping to get some bespoke graphics made.


----------



## Tswifty

Just a quick question with regards to Disc wheels on a FM018.
What disc can be fitted to the bike? Just flat disc like Zipp? Or ones that kinda flare out like HED?
What are the Do's and Dont's regarding Disc wheels on the FM018?


----------



## DudeMtn

*My $2000 China Rig*

Here's a couple of updated pics of my Dengfu FMO15. +/- 2,000 miles on it and she is rock solid. Purchased in 2010 and I just can't say enough about how pleased I am with the whole project.

Frame/fork ~ Dengfu FMO15 - sz.58
Wheels ~ 50mm Asian Carbon Clinchers - Novatec Hubs
Tires ~ Serfas Seca 700c X 23
Brake Pads ~ Zipp Cork
Groupo ~ Shimano 105 5700 Black
Crank ~ Shimano 105 5700 Black - Double
Pedals ~ Shimano SPD
Saddle ~ Fizik Tundra 
Bar/Stem ~ Pinarello MOST
Seatpost ~ Ritchey Pro
Cage ~ Elite Pro Lite
Comp ~ Cateye Strada


----------



## wheeliedave

*From Interbike Deng Fu and Hong Fu*


----------



## Crawf

wheeliedave said:


>



I wonder what Trek and Cervelo thought about those booths


----------



## wheeliedave

*Interbike*

It was my first time seeing the frames, in person, that are similar to a Cervelo or Specialized. The finish was good and they looked a lot like the real thing.The famous "Jenny" was also in the booth. FM066 around $750.00 frame and fork mean while upstairs in the Cervelo booth R5 frameset $5,000. It makes one wonder.


----------



## Vee

Those interbike photos are quite interesting. Thank you for that. Perhaps now that these frames are becoming ever more present, the competition they create will fuel a drop in prices across the board. One can hope...


----------



## cpanagio

Great thread. All of this information has been extremely informative.

I did some searching and couldnt find much but does anyone have any experience with the name brand knockoffs (Cervelo, Specialized, etc.) found on dhgate.com or cyclingyong?


----------



## gordy748

*Decent Chinese track frame?*

Can anyone advise me on a decent track frame from a Chinese manufacturer? Hong Fu don't have any and I'm always leery of untried firms.

Note: decent means track geometry, not laid back fixie geometry, won't break but is standard price for Chinese carbon. Or aluminium, I'm not that fussed really.


----------



## mrcreosote

gordy748 said:


> Can anyone advise me on a decent track frame from a Chinese manufacturer? Hong Fu don't have any and I'm always leery of untried firms.
> 
> Note: decent means track geometry, not laid back fixie geometry, won't break but is standard price for Chinese carbon. Or aluminium, I'm not that fussed really.


FLYXI (also on ebay Item number: 370652460742)

also

Tp-r810 Carbon Frame - Buy Carbon Frame,Carbon Track Bicycle Frame,Carbon Bike Frame Product on Alibaba.com
Wholesale Price Full Carbon Track Frame,Carbon Bicycle Frame - Buy Track Frame,Wholesale Price,Carbon Track Frame Product on Alibaba.com
Full Carbon Frame,Carbon Track Frame - Buy Carbon Track Frame,Bicycle Carbon Track Frame,Track Frame Carbon Product on Alibaba.com


----------



## cpanagio

Tompelan said:


> My build is using Ultegra groupset, 3T handle bar and stem, specialized toupe saddle, 50mm clincher wheel with novatec hubs, schwalbe ultremo zx, jagwire cable and adjuster for shifter cable is needed. I called this bike Transformer 039 as I managed to get some 3D sticker of transformer logo. Btw, I have spent US$2400 for this bike and the weight is 7.5kgs.
> 
> Any questions regarding tips and trick of building this FM039, just drop me a PM, I will do my best to help you guys.



Wow...just wow! You've sold me on the FM039. Are the clinchers also from Hongfu?


----------



## Tswifty

Tswifty said:


> Just a quick question with regards to Disc wheels on a FM018.
> What disc can be fitted to the bike? Just flat disc like Zipp? Or ones that kinda flare out like HED?
> What are the Do's and Dont's regarding Disc wheels on the FM018?


Can anyone answer that question?
Also has the FM098 seat post issue been fixed? You know with the whole being to tight or to loose thing? Have they got it right yet?


----------



## RMCC

cpanagio said:


> Great thread. All of this information has been extremely informative.
> 
> I did some searching and couldnt find much but does anyone have any experience with the name brand knockoffs (Cervelo, Specialized, etc.) found on dhgate.com or cyclingyong?


I've ordered an "S3" knockoff from cyclingyong, just to see what it's like. It should be here this week, and will keep you updated on the quality.


----------



## Hutchy_belfast

New person here, this thread brought me to rbr. I'm a fairly new rider considering a Chinese frame. What actually differentiates a frame? The published weights of these Chinese frames aren't ridiculously light, 1- 1.1kg in the most part with the bikes building up to around 7.5-8kg in the main part from what I can see. This doesn't seem any lighter than a caad10 for example. 
What are customs like on them landing? Is there another 25% to add on top in fees?
I also wonder how easy one would be to sell on? 
I like the idea of building one to my own spec, but it doesn't look like I would get any change from £1500 by the time I got matching Chinese clinchers and paint job etc. then I'm left with a no name bike with no real warranty and dubious resale. I'm not sure how they add up really?
On the flip side however I would be most likely to buy a planet x or ribble if I was buying new and I'm pretty sure all they do is build up Taiwanese frames probably of similar quality on a larger scale.


----------



## Crappymonkey

100 Pages!

I forgot to post a shot of my Dengfu FM098 frame that arrived last Friday. I still don't have anything to build it up yet. There is a big bike sale/fall show in a couple of weeks that I may pick a few parts up at and I'm hoping for some good groupset deals around Christmas (hopefully Ribble has the 25% off Campy sale again)


----------



## Crappymonkey

wheeliedave said:


>


Was Interbike held in a parking garage?


----------



## rbart4506

Hutchy_belfast said:


> New person here, this thread brought me to rbr. I'm a fairly new rider considering a Chinese frame. What actually differentiates a frame? The published weights of these Chinese frames aren't ridiculously light, 1- 1.1kg in the most part with the bikes building up to around 7.5-8kg in the main part from what I can see. This doesn't seem any lighter than a caad10 for example.
> What are customs like on them landing? Is there another 25% to add on top in fees?
> I also wonder how easy one would be to sell on?
> I like the idea of building one to my own spec, but it doesn't look like I would get any change from £1500 by the time I got matching Chinese clinchers and paint job etc. then I'm left with a no name bike with no real warranty and dubious resale. I'm not sure how they add up really?
> On the flip side however I would be most likely to buy a planet x or ribble if I was buying new and I'm pretty sure all they do is build up Taiwanese frames probably of similar quality on a larger scale.


Here's the deal...

You are going to be able to build these frames out to a comparable weight as any of the name brand bikes, but you will save yourself a ton of money. You can not compare it to the lower end price point bikes by a name manufacturer.

You do not buy these frames with resale in mind. You buy these bikes to ride and to ride hard. You do not worry about crashing, scratches and nicks. If the frame dies you simply buy another one. My old 2010 Tarmac Expert framset cost close to $2000 brand new, my FM028 was a fraction of that.

The ride quality of my FM028 is on par if not better then my Tarmac.

I like it so much that I have bought the FM029, which I am building up right now. My wife also had the same feeling so therefore she is getting one as well. That will make a total of 4 no-name Chinese frames in our household.

It's to the point that I would be hard pressed buying another name brand frame.

$5000 for an Cervelo frameset?? Not me, never...


----------



## Boombaux

question. i cut my steerer tube, but not perfectly straight...it probably slants about 1/5th of a mm one side to the other. i can tighten the expander plug just fine but when it is tightened, the stem moves up and down a tiny tiny bit until i tighten it too since there's a small space between part of the spacer and it. am i screwed? i'm worried about it not compressing right but it seems to be fine when everything is tightened


----------



## Tim O

*Deng Fu Contact?*

Anyone know the best way of contacting Deng Fu? I've tried the email address *dengfubikes at 163.com* and a link straight off the product page, but 24 hours later, still nothing. Quite a contrast to Hong Fu who replied within an hour.

I'm interested in a FM-029. If DengFu don't reply, anywhere else I can try? (it's not listed on HongFu)

Thanks


----------



## Boombaux

skype for deng fu is tony_yangd

sometimes it takes a few days for them to reply and he's only on skype after 12am EST


----------



## amedal

Tim O said:


> Anyone know the best way of contacting Deng Fu? I've tried the email address *dengfubikes at 163.com* and a link straight off the product page, but 24 hours later, still nothing. Quite a contrast to Hong Fu who replied within an hour.
> 
> I'm interested in a FM-029. If DengFu don't reply, anywhere else I can try? (it's not listed on HongFu)
> 
> Thanks


Your best bet is to wait till 8 or 9pm Eastern time, go to alibaba.com, search for DengFu frames, select any if them and just click to chat with Martina, she'll be able to help you out, even if its not about the frame page you are clicking from.

This was the most effective way of getting in touch with them.

My .02 cents...


----------



## 2L8COMES2FAST

Thanks to everyone who came before me and shared their feedback on this forum!

Finished my FM039, complete Ultegra group, Farsport 50mm carbon clinchers. Took it for a short ride this morning, did not really know what to expect. Well....I'm very, very pleased!
A few less-than-perfect carbon overlap finishes (including one on top tube) but purely cosmetic. Other than that GREAT looking bike. Hard to beat its value/money ratio.
The bike does feel somewhat harsher than my 2008 S-works Tarmac but will swap wheels (Ksyrium SL) for a true comparison later this week. Also felt more reponsive during a few 100m sprint from near-standstill and slightly more "twitchy" overall. Did seem to "roll" less far than the Tarmac.
Will post more feedback and pictures soon.


----------



## tmmartins

Tim O said:


> Anyone know the best way of contacting Deng Fu? I've tried the email address *dengfubikes at 163.com* and a link straight off the product page, but 24 hours later, still nothing. Quite a contrast to Hong Fu who replied within an hour.
> 
> I'm interested in a FM-029. If DengFu don't reply, anywhere else I can try? (it's not listed on HongFu)
> 
> Thanks


You can contact them through the chat line as was mentioned or go to Velobuild.com and they have a group buy on right now for the FM029 for great price. I ordered one and it should be ready this week. Good luck it is an awsome bike.


----------



## tenderous

Boombaux said:


> question. i cut my steerer tube, but not perfectly straight...it probably slants about 1/5th of a mm one side to the other. i can tighten the expander plug just fine but when it is tightened, the stem moves up and down a tiny tiny bit until i tighten it too since there's a small space between part of the spacer and it. am i screwed? i'm worried about it not compressing right but it seems to be fine when everything is tightened


you could file down the difference - no you're not screwed


----------



## maxxevv

2L8COMES2FAST said:


> Thanks to everyone who came before me and shared their feedback on this forum!
> 
> Finished my FM039, complete Ultegra group, Farsport 50mm carbon clinchers. Took it for a short ride this morning, did not really know what to expect. Well....I'm very, very pleased!
> A few less-than-perfect carbon overlap finishes (including one on top tube) but purely cosmetic. Other than that GREAT looking bike. Hard to beat its value/money ratio.
> The bike does feel somewhat harsher than my 2008 S-works Tarmac but will swap wheels (Ksyrium SL) for a true comparison later this week. Also felt more reponsive during a few 100m sprint from near-standstill and slightly more "twitchy" overall. Did seem to "roll" less far than the Tarmac.
> Will post more feedback and pictures soon.


Your wheels are probably all the difference in the ride quality and "roll" of the bike. The new hubs will need a little breaking in for the bearing seals. Probably 5 rides or more depending on your mileage and they will 'roll better'. One of the reasons also being Ksyriums use custom bearings that have rubber seals on one side and metal caps on the others to minimise drag.

Also, 50mm carbon rims do ride 'harder' compared to the Ksyrium SL ( I had 2 pairs over the space of about 5~6 years) compared to my Reynolds DV46.


----------



## takmanjapan

*Supplier - Huizhou Jiyan Precision Metal Parts Factory*

Has anyone dealt with this company before? Huizhou Jiyan Precision Metal Parts Factory
Huizhou City Jiyan Precision Metal Parts Factory - Carbon bicycle frame, Carbon fork, Carbon seat post

After a long time lurking I am nearly ready to buy something. Looking at their JY-R-066 and frame. Looks like an evolution to the FM028 but several differences, too. Contact person is Judy and communication going well but interested to hear if anyone else had any first hand experience.

Takmanjapan


----------



## maxxevv

Interesting looking frame. Di2 compatible too. Can't seem to locate the geometry charts though. Any links for that ?


----------



## Mankul

Bridgey said:


> How good do some of those new Chinarello's look at Great Keen Bikes. I've already got a 2012 Model Chinarello (named Chinarello Mad-Dog), but will dish out for the 2013 model also as my racing bike.
> 
> I know they are fakes, replicas or whatever you want to call them. I will have them decaled as above. But have any of you purchased one or heard any reviews on them yet? I've got no concerns with Great Keen Bikes personally. They even warrantied one of the other frames I got from them. Paid to get it fixed vs me sending it back. So they will keep getting my business.


I also have got the 2012 chinarello and its less than 1 yr old and Im already tempted to get the 2013 version from great keen or speedy li at ali express. Those are really good copies and you really have to look hard to differentiate them from the real deal. The only thing thats left is for them to ad in Di2 compatibility!


----------



## smithers cycles

RMCC said:


> I've ordered an "S3" knockoff from cyclingyong, just to see what it's like. It should be here this week, and will keep you updated on the quality.


Keep us posted. I purchased one of their Pinarello knockoffs. It performs flawlessly.800 miles on it with no complaints.:thumbsup:


----------



## Boombaux

i ended up flipping the stem and found out it's the stem causing the problem. the top of it is rounded a bit so the spacer doesn't have contact all the way around. this is pretty weird considering it's a genuine FSA stem. hopefully it keeps up. has anyone used an FM029 extensively for quite a bit of miles? i sometimes read horror stories of knockoffs breaking at the crown race and people finding news paper stuffed inside left over from the moulding core


----------



## Vee

Boombaux said:


> i ended up flipping the stem and found out it's the stem causing the problem. the top of it is rounded a bit so the spacer doesn't have contact all the way around. this is pretty weird considering it's a genuine FSA stem. hopefully it keeps up. has anyone used an FM029 extensively for quite a bit of miles? i sometimes read horror stories of knockoffs breaking at the crown race and people finding news paper stuffed inside left over from the moulding core


You sometimes read horror stories about that? Interesting considering I've seen only one story of that kind and I've been around for almost 2 years on these threads. Care to share your other stories you've sometimes read?


----------



## Boombaux

Vee said:


> You sometimes read horror stories about that? Interesting considering I've seen only one story of that kind and I've been around for almost 2 years on these threads. Care to share your other stories you've sometimes read?


Weight Weenies • View topic - ASIAN CHINARELLO'S
bustedcarbon.com <most are big names but if they fail...
i can't really remember where any more specific stories are but i come across them when searching forums against chinese factory bikes


----------



## Vee

Boombaux said:


> Weight Weenies • View topic - ASIAN CHINARELLO'S
> bustedcarbon.com <most are big names but if they fail...
> i can't really remember where any more specific stories are but i come across them when searching forums against chinese factory bikes


For those not familiar, he is talking about one of two stories. One story speaks about a cyclist who crashed his bike and had it crack at the steerer as a result of the crash(and whether that bike was real or fake was never determined). The second story was a case of some (unintelligent) person sanding their crown race in order to slip fit the crown race onto their steerer (NEVER DO THIS). 

And I know I am beating a dead horse here, but ANY bike can fail. I actually witnessed an authentic look frame fail at the steerer near the crown race during my team winter training camp this past year.


----------



## Vee

Boombaux said:


> question. i cut my steerer tube, but not perfectly straight...it probably slants about 1/5th of a mm one side to the other. i can tighten the expander plug just fine but when it is tightened, the stem moves up and down a tiny tiny bit until i tighten it too since there's a small space between part of the spacer and it. am i screwed? i'm worried about it not compressing right but it seems to be fine when everything is tightened


If you have any play in the stem, headset, or steerer once you have preloaded your headset bearings (properly) using the compression plug and top cap, then you are doing something wrong. If you ride the bike with ANY play in your headset you risk having a failure at the steerer.


----------



## Boombaux

then i may either be ordering a new fork or a new very short dust cover to allow enough room to cut a mm off. this time i think i might have the LBS do it instead of using a hacksaw and a hose clamp..


----------



## YamaDan

Boom.. Take your Hose clamp guide, good idea I think, and sand the carbon flush. I have a belt sander with a wheel that I used, sand smooth, then smooth the top edge. You should be fine. 

I used and old stem as a guide.


----------



## Boombaux

yeah i think i might need a new fork...being the idiot i am, i cut the tube about 0.3mm above the stem so even the spacer will move/slide off if enough pressure is put on it from the side.


----------



## YamaDan

Boombaux said:


> yeah i think i might need a new fork...being the idiot i am, i cut the tube about 0.3mm above the stem so even the spacer will move/slide off if enough pressure is put on it from the side.


Can you post up pics?


----------



## YamaDan

smithers cycles said:


> Keep us posted. I purchased one of their Pinarello knockoffs. It performs flawlessly.800 miles on it with no complaints.:thumbsup:


I started a build thread for mine, a Pinarello knock off, and I got shut down superfast. 

There were some things that I experienced in dealing with Alibaba that concerned me, but turned out just fine. I had a couple frame issues, I was able to easily address, quality seems really good. Currently, it's right at 14.5lbs, needs Shift/brake levers, cables and bar tape. I'd post a pic but don't want to get in trouble.


----------



## ptsbike55

That discussion was from 2007. The quality of my Road frame 2 from Carbonal is great. I have had it a year now and put around 6000 miles on it with no issues.


----------



## Boombaux

YamaDan said:


> Can you post up pics?


like i said, it's really slight. you can see it makes contact at the front (and back, but it's out of view) but not so much the sides. when i move the stem up when it's not tightened it's not audible, it's just a very small range of motion


----------



## YamaDan

Boombaux said:


> like i said, it's really slight. you can see it makes contact at the front (and back, but it's out of view) but not so much the sides. when i move the stem up when it's not tightened it's not audible, it's just a very small range of motion



Ok, so when the stem is on the bike, you have a 5mm carbon spacer on top? What do you have on the bottom, spacer wise? Can you take a photo of the stem/steerer combo without the cap, I'd like to see how much steerer tube is in the stem itself.


----------



## Boombaux

it's easier to see the slant here









do you think there will be any problems with the steerer if it's perfectly level with the stem?


----------



## Boombaux

i sanded it down so it's perfectly even. the stem still moves but you need to put a little bit of force pulling it. i think it's the clamps flexing. i preloaded it, tightened the stem up, and everything seems fine. the stem entrance also has a little to do with it since it's not perfectly flat with the spacer


----------



## YamaDan

Yeah, you're fine. I'd put a 5mm spacer on top, more for the lip on the cap than anything else, tighten it down, tighten up the pinch bolts to the 5nm spec, you'll be suprised how solid it becomes.


----------



## se24

After spending hours reading all the information in these pages, I finally ordered an FM015 from Jenny at Hong Fu. It arrived last week and I spent the weekend building it up with a campag Athena groupset.

It looks fantastic and feels really light. But...

...like a couple of other people on this forum, I've got a 2mm gap between the top of the headtube and the dust cap of the headset. The headset is a campag standard Necco headset that I ordered with the frame. I've put the top bearing in the headtube with outer bevel down, then dropped the split race into the bearing, and then the dustcover on top of that. There's no play in the headset once it's tightened down and it feels like it would ride fine, but I can't get rid of that gap.

I've seen posts from a couple of other people with similar problems, but couldn't find any solutions. If anyone has any idea what I might be doing wrong, I would love to hear from you. I'm itching to get out and ride it!

(I'd like to post some pictures showing what I mean, but I'll have to wait nine more posts


----------



## ms6073

Tim O said:


> Anyone know the best way of contacting Deng Fu? I've tried the email address *dengfubikes at 163.com* and a link straight off the product page.


I think that e-mail address is there Spam catcher as I also got no reply when I first attempted to contact them earlier this year.  Try dengfusales at 63.com as that is the e-mail address I used to purchase our FM059 disc cyclocross frames.


----------



## tmmartins

ms6073 said:


> I think that e-mail address is there Spam catcher as I also got no reply when I first attempted to contact them earlier this year.  Try dengfusales at 63.com as that is the e-mail address I used to purchase our FM059 disc cyclocross frames.


I use [email protected] and the contact is Lucky. I ordered my frame and have contacted her many times. They usually take 24 hours to respond.


----------



## Mr.Habanero

Does anyone have a Fr316 built up. Im pretty sure lm going to dump my Fm098 for one of those.


----------



## Vee

Boombaux said:


> it's easier to see the slant here
> 
> 
> do you think there will be any problems with the steerer if it's perfectly level with the stem?


I don't think you have everything installed properly. Are you sure you have the compression plug cut down low enough so you have a couple of mm (even as much as 5mm is fine) of gap between the TOP of the compression plug and the top of the spacer on top of your stem? If you have a nice bit of space, and have the compression plug tightened, you should then be able to place the top cap on and tighten it down to preload everything properly and it should take care of that gap with no issue. The tolerances would need to be off quite a bit to leave a gap after properly preloading the headset, i would think.


----------



## stevepeter83

*CHINARELLO Frame Performance*

Hi guys,

I've been reading some articles re: fake Chinarello. A lot of these articles/forum discussions talk about how these people shouldn't make fake, etc but little talk about the actual frame performance.

If you have had experience with Chinarello, can you please explain to me its performance, please? eg. the stiffness, how it rides, durability, etc rather than talking about buying fake rolex vs real ones or the paint job.

I'm not interested in the paint job quality, I'm just interested in how it rides and the durability of the frame. 


Cheers,
Steve


----------



## RaptorTC

ride on purpose: chinarello: knock-off pinarello dogma review


----------



## bigbill

stevepeter83 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I've been reading some articles re: fake Chinarello. A lot of these articles/forum discussions talk about how these people shouldn't make fake, etc but little talk about the actual frame performance.
> 
> If you have had experience with Chinarello, can you please explain to me its performance, please? eg. the stiffness, how it rides, durability, etc rather than talking about buying fake rolex vs real ones or the paint job.
> 
> I'm not interested in the paint job quality, I'm just interested in how it rides and the durability of the frame.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Steve


The sticky thread at the top of this forum is all about Chinese/Asian carbon frames.


----------



## Boombaux

Vee said:


> I don't think you have everything installed properly. Are you sure you have the compression plug cut down low enough so you have a couple of mm (even as much as 5mm is fine) of gap between the TOP of the compression plug and the top of the spacer on top of your stem? If you have a nice bit of space, and have the compression plug tightened, you should then be able to place the top cap on and tighten it down to preload everything properly and it should take care of that gap with no issue. The tolerances would need to be off quite a bit to leave a gap after properly preloading the headset, i would think.


i ended up sanding it down even. the gap is from the rounded top of the stem which doesnt allow the spacer to fully contact it. i think even if i didn't preload correctly that the spacer would be perfectly flat with the stem.

EDIT: i think i might be doing something wrong. what do you mean tighten the compression plug and then tighten the top cap? do you mean the little part under the plug that screws upwards to pre-expand the plug?

EDIT2: wow. i can't believe i couldn't figure it out before. under the top cap is a 6mm hex tightener. i get it now.
the plug holds it in place and the cap itself compresses everything down

EDIT3: i should be more observant. it's actually the dust cover which is slightly too big which caused the stem to shift. thank you for clearing eveything up though ^
probably saved my front teeth from being knocked out because the headset wasn't tightened


anyone paint their frame? i'm thinking of sanding it down this weekend and buying a cheapo airbrush from michaels and coating it with auto paint.

between sandings do i need to add any coats? 
i read 400 dry 800 wet 1200 wet would work well


----------



## samh

I am thinking of getting Yishun cyclocross bike. Is $650 a good price? Seems little expensive, if direct from manufacturer. Do they make quality bikes? (not need refinishing)


----------



## se24

*Headset gap*

After spending hours reading all the information in these pages, I finally ordered an FM015 from Jenny at Hong Fu. It arrived last week and I spent the weekend building it up with a campag Athena groupset.

It looks fantastic and feels really light. But...

...like a couple of other people on this forum, I've got a 2mm gap between the top of the headtube and the dust cap of the headset. The headset is a campag standard Necco headset that I ordered with the frame. I've put the top bearing in the headtube with outer bevel down, then dropped the split race into the bearing, and then the dustcover on top of that. There's no play in the headset once it's tightened down and it feels like it would ride fine, but I can't get rid of that gap.

I've seen posts from a couple of other people with similar problems, but couldn't find any solutions. If anyone has any idea what I might be doing wrong, I would love to hear from you. I'm itching to get out and ride it!

(I'd like to post some pictures showing what I mean, but I'll have to wait nine more posts


----------



## greenjt

samh said:


> I am thinking of getting Yishun cyclocross bike. Is $650 a good price? Seems little expensive, if direct from manufacturer. Do they make quality bikes? (not need refinishing)


Is that the price listed on a website ora quoted price? I found with frames the quoted price tended to be less than what was listed publicly on the Web as the price.


----------



## [email protected]

Has anyone built the FLX-FR-106 ? I'm looking to make the purchase this weekend but am completely split on purchasing the 56cm or 58cm frame. I'm 6' 1", ride a 58cm Trek roadbike, and would love to hear a review from someone that knows this frames fitment. I'm leaning towards purchasing the 58cm frame but a fitment calculator that someone recommended on this forum pointed to a 56cm frame. Does this TT frame take into account the need for an aero position and compensate in it's design? If so, i'll probably go with the 58cm. 

Thanks in advance for answering yet ANOTHER fitment question!!

Copy/Paste (can't post links yet  
flyxii.com/products_1.asp?menuid=330&id=883]FLYXI

Copy/Paste
flyxii.com/uploadfile/content/2012032017280900.JPG


----------



## greenjt

[email protected] said:


> Has anyone built the FLX-FR-106 ? I'm looking to make the purchase this weekend but am completely split on purchasing the 56cm or 58cm frame. I'm 6' 1", ride a 58cm Trek roadbike, and would love to hear a review from someone that knows this frames fitment. I'm leaning towards purchasing the 58cm frame but a fitment calculator that someone recommended on this forum pointed to a 56cm frame. Does this TT frame take into account the need for an aero position and compensate in it's design? If so, i'll probably go with the 58cm.
> 
> Thanks in advance for answering yet ANOTHER fitment question!!
> 
> Copy/Paste (can't post links yet
> flyxii.com/products_1.asp?menuid=330&id=883]FLYXI
> 
> Copy/Paste
> flyxii.com/uploadfile/content/2012032017280900.JPG


Austin - I looked at this frame but ultimately went with the FR-105 but from another distributor (much better communication) so under a different model name. So you might want to search under the other names for this frame also as it's carried by many of the other distributors as well. I seem to recall another poster building this one up and indicating that standard brake calipers do not work with this frame, so that is something to be aware of. 

As for fit, which is what you are trying to figure out.... It depends on what your objective is. I did a lot of work trying to figure out whether to buy a 54 or 56 frame and ultimately settled on the 56. In my case I was looking to use the TT frame as a tri bike. So I used an Excel model to compare the different frames stack and reach and other measurements to my current tri bike which is a 53cm Quintana Roo. Send me an email (check my profile) and I can share offline a construct to help you think through the decision. Caveat: i do not yet have my frame but should have it Friday (i think) so it's all still very theoretical for me at this point but I am pretty confident in my selection methodology. 

One thing to note is it appears the saddle clamp on top of the mast is the same or similar to that on the 105. I was able to confirm that on the 105 the clamp DOES move fore/aft along a channel on top of the mast which will help with fit.


----------



## rxi

Since there are very few FR-303 builds I thought I would share mine. I tried to keep it as cheap as possible so I settled on the FR-303 from Flyxii (purchased via ebay seller a_baygoods). No complaints about buying from them, showed up in Melbourne in 6 days. The only issue I had building it up was needing a 30mm front brake nut (Rival comes with a 22mm). Don't have any miles on it yet apart from the 50m to end of the street to make sure it wont asplode. Anyone know what this frame design is similar to?

Frame Flyxii FR-303 380
Forks FLX-FK-001 (included) 0
Head Stem	Pro-Lite Pelmo Stem 100mm 28
Handle Bars	Easton Handlebars EA30 Ergo 25
Seat Post Pro-Lite Novara AL 2014 Seatpost 38
Seat Post Clamp	M Part Seat Clamp 7
Saddle Selle Itali Flite (own) 0
Groupset SRAM Rival 600
Headset Neco H373 (included) 0
Bar Tape Fizik Bar Tape - Microtex 16
Wheels Fulcrum Racing 7 250
Bar plug Carbon look (plastic) 5
Brazeon adapter	34.9mm carbon look 14
Stem Spacers	1x 10mm, 1x 20mm 14
Spare derallier hanger 5
Brake nut	30mm 2

Total Cost $1404
Total Weight 8kg


----------



## [email protected]

First off, thank you very much for taking the time to write that message to me. The brake issue on the FR-106 concerns me. With that being said, I'd go with the 105 but am really stuck on the matte carbon look on the 106. 

I wasn't able to locate your email on your profile (yes, i'm obviously new around here) but my email is my username. I'm unable to PM as I don't have 10+ posts but that spreadsheet would be much appreciated! 

I've got to run but will check back later. 

thanks again..


----------



## Boombaux

decided to shine a light down my seatpost. wad of newspaper packed in there. i thought only the the very poor quality frame makers did this. what is it for, anyways?


----------



## svard75

Hi folks. Recently purchased a cross fork from hongfu and would like to get some feedback on it. After several rides i noticed a few things which are concerning. When sprinting i can feel my bars moving (noodly). If i simply push down on the bars i can see the stem flex! While braking it vibrates so intensely (i can see the fork vibrate back and forward) I'm worried it'll crack at the crown race. Has anyone else experienced these symptoms? The steerer is 1 1/8 top to bottom.

Thanks


----------



## Boombaux

try tightening the stem a bit more. are you using a compression plug or star nut?



primed


----------



## beston

svard75 said:


> Hi folks. Recently purchased a cross fork from hongfu and would like to get some feedback on it. After several rides i noticed a few things which are concerning. When sprinting i can feel my bars moving (noodly). If i simply push down on the bars i can see the stem flex! While braking it vibrates so intensely (i can see the fork vibrate back and forward) I'm worried it'll crack at the crown race. Has anyone else experienced these symptoms? The steerer is 1 1/8 top to bottom.
> 
> Thanks


That does not sound good at all. So, your stem flexes, your handlebars are like noodles, and your fork vibrates intensely. 

In no way should a bike be ridden like this an still be considered safe. If everything has been installed properly, I'd be pissed at Hongfu.

I know not all Chinese frame buyers have had a bad experience (I've got an FM098 bike from Dengfu and am very happy), but statements like this make me think that you've got to be really selective about who you buy from.


----------



## MShaw

beston said:


> I know not all Chinese frame buyers have had a bad experience (I've got an FM098 bike from Dengfu and am very happy), but statements like this make me think that you've got to be really selective about who you buy from.


Y'all see the guy riding the S-Works at the euro cross race on Sat? Snapped the fork at the crown. 

...so its not only the knockoffs ya gotta worry about

M


----------



## svard75

I think i have a solution for the shuddering. Posted in the comps forum and one guy suggested it was due to the cable stop being mounted above the headset. As i apply pressure to the front brake my body weight is transferred forward making the steerer flex forward causing the cable stop to push forward as well creating the shudder. It makes sense to me so i picked up a fork mounted cable stop. Hope this reduces the shudder. It'll also allow me to mount the stem lower further reducing steerer flex.

I'm using a compression plug and there is no play in the headset.

Thanks for the feedback. Since i received a quick response it must be a common issue with full carbon cross forks. My experience with hongfu has been fantastic. My fm015 is still running perfect i sold their carbon bars due to the classic ergo bend but they were solid bars.


----------



## svard75

Boombaux said:


> decided to shine a light down my seatpost. wad of newspaper packed in there. i thought only the the very poor quality frame makers did this. what is it for, anyways?


Well garbage is problematic for the entire world. If a manufacturer can get away with relinquishing it by hiding it in your frame then there's that much less at the dump site! JK. I watch a guy on youtube build his own carbon frame including the tubes and he used some kind of hard foam as the molding piece. Once the resin cured he used acetone to melt the foam away. Perhaps these manufacturers use newspaper the burn it out after?!


----------



## mrcreosote

samh said:


> I am thinking of getting Yishun cyclocross bike. Is $650 a good price? Seems little expensive, if direct from manufacturer. Do they make quality bikes? (not need refinishing)


If you are talking about the CX01, then, yes, it is a quality frame (at least, mine seems so) but $650 is too much. Dengfu are selling the same frame (FM058) for $500+shipping on Aliexpress

Aliexpress.com : Buy FULL CARBON CYCLOCROSS FRAME,BIKE FRAME FM058 from Reliable cyclocross frame suppliers on Dengfu Sports Equipment Co., Limited


----------



## serrone

robpar said:


> is there a geo chart for that frame?


this miracle frame, the are 52-54-56 only


----------



## Boombaux

does anyone else have gxp? it seems there is a bit of play and i can hear a rubbing noise when spinning the cranks...my set is from feb 2011 and i've heard that the bearing covers were made too small for a short while. i'm wondering if the play and noise is from the cover sliding around


----------



## Vee

Boombaux said:


> does anyone else have gxp? it seems there is a bit of play and i can hear a rubbing noise when spinning the cranks...my set is from feb 2011 and i've heard that the bearing covers were made too small for a short while. i'm wondering if the play and noise is from the cover sliding around


The majority of the cycling world rides on GXP, or the Shimano equivalent of it. SRAM GXP is no different than the rest. I have it on one of my bikes and everything works as expected. You should not have play in your bottom bracket... 

If you have play in your bottom bracket it is not installed properly. http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/s...cs/95-6115-007-000_rev_d_-_road_cranksets.pdf

The more you post the more worried I become about you and your bike. Please be sure you are reading instructions very carefully when building your bike, especially if this is your first build.


----------



## Vee

Boombaux said:


> i ended up sanding it down even. the gap is from the rounded top of the stem which doesnt allow the spacer to fully contact it. i think even if i didn't preload correctly that the spacer would be perfectly flat with the stem.
> 
> EDIT: i think i might be doing something wrong. what do you mean tighten the compression plug and then tighten the top cap? do you mean the little part under the plug that screws upwards to pre-expand the plug?
> 
> EDIT2: wow. i can't believe i couldn't figure it out before. under the top cap is a 6mm hex tightener. i get it now.
> the plug holds it in place and the cap itself compresses everything down
> 
> EDIT3: i should be more observant. it's actually the dust cover which is slightly too big which caused the stem to shift. thank you for clearing eveything up though ^
> probably saved my front teeth from being knocked out because the headset wasn't tightened
> 
> 
> anyone paint their frame? i'm thinking of sanding it down this weekend and buying a cheapo airbrush from michaels and coating it with auto paint.
> 
> between sandings do i need to add any coats?
> i read 400 dry 800 wet 1200 wet would work well


If your top piece of your headset, the part you call the dust cover, is too large and is coming into contact with the headtube of the frame, the factory should have supplied you with a few paper thin metal shims to go between the heatset cover and the bearings to increase the gap and cause the headset cover to rotate with the stem rather than pressing against the headtube and causing friction.

Other than that, it sounds like you have now figured out how to properly compress the headset and that gap you were having trouble with went away?


----------



## Boombaux

yes, the gap is fixed for the headset/stem.
i've done everything correctly for the bottom bracket
grease in the shell/on the cup threads, installed driveside first, pressed the plastic sleeve into drive side, installed NDS, put crank through, used a rubber mallet to make sure it's in, greased splines and threads on crankarm, tightened it on


----------



## Enders13

orlin03 said:


> Sheering forces come into play as the stack height goes up. While the steerer tube is quite protected between the headset bearings in the frame, it is vulnerable to sideways & fore/aft forces above the headset. The higher you go, the more these forces can multiply (yes multiply, not simply increase) until it becomes a disaster waiting to happen. Carbon tubes are not resistant to these forces, so there are limits to how many spacers you can add. This I why so many bike manufacturers have started building taller frames, though this in turn hurts those flexible enough to bend down low.


Just reading through this whole forum and this jumped out at me, shear forces would remain constant, increase in riser or stack would increase lever arm and thus increase bending forces on the steerer. For a simple cantilever, shear force would be constant across the whole member. Bending (moment) is shear force x lever arm. So the further away from the point of support the lever arm increases and so does the bending moment.:thumbsup:


----------



## nightdance

Good luck


----------



## TehYoyo

I just got wind of these bikes and frames, etc. today and it seems like a great idea. Can you guys give testimony to whatever Chinese company you used and how it's been? Also, known issues that occur frequently?

Thanks,
~TehYoyo


----------



## rbart4506

Do what the rest have done...Start from the beginning and read...It paints a pretty clear picture...


----------



## mrcreosote

Enders13 said:


> Just reading through this whole forum and this jumped out at me, shear forces would remain constant, increase in riser or stack would increase lever arm and thus increase bending forces on the steerer. For a simple cantilever, shear force would be constant across the whole member. Bending (moment) is shear force x lever arm. So the further away from the point of support the lever arm increases and so does the bending moment.:thumbsup:


Just thinking - the steerer tube is not 'unsupported'. It is supported by the spacers. The spacers are supported on the top of bearing, which in turn is supported by the head tube. They would act like a 'flying buttress' transferring the force into the head tube. Even better if the spacer is a single piece. So as long as the spacer is strong enough, and there is no play in the system, you can have a longer steerer.


----------



## kimare

I've built up a chinese MTB frame LTK023, and have been very satisfied. Actually I'm on the verge of buying a Focus Izalco, but if that falls through I might build a chinese frame.

Is there an overview over the most popular frames, and if they have been inspired by more known frames geometry if would be nice to know.


----------



## Boombaux

kimare said:


> I've built up a chinese MTB frame LTK023, and have been very satisfied. Actually I'm on the verge of buying a Focus Izalco, but if that falls through I might build a chinese frame.
> 
> Is there an overview over the most popular frames, and if they have been inspired by more known frames geometry if would be nice to know.


probably FM066, FM098, and FM028 are the most popular as far as i've seen


----------



## kimare

Boombaux said:


> probably FM066, FM098, and FM028 are the most popular as far as i've seen


Thanks 'll check them up if I go this route.


----------



## turbogrover

mrcreosote said:


> Just thinking - the steerer tube is not 'unsupported'. It is supported by the spacers. The spacers are supported on the top of bearing, which in turn is supported by the head tube. They would act like a 'flying buttress' transferring the force into the head tube. Even better if the spacer is a single piece. So as long as the spacer is strong enough, and there is no play in the system, you can have a longer steerer.


His version of "supported" is different from yours. He is talking about getting farther away from the top tube/upper headset bearing. Even supported by spacers stacked tightly, you are still increasing your lever by raising the bars high above the headset stack.


----------



## Boombaux

after putting some of it together, i dunno if i could part with this.









i fixed the crank play too

sorry for bad quality, phone was at 2% battery


----------



## mrcreosote

turbogrover said:


> His version of "supported" is different from yours. He is talking about getting farther away from the top tube/upper headset bearing. Even supported by spacers stacked tightly, you are still increasing your lever by raising the bars high above the headset stack.


I acknowledge the increase in leverage, but the leverage is not acting in the steerer tube alone. Don't the spacers mechanically form part of the headset stack? They are resting on the headset. It isn't like a quill stem, where the extension of the stem out of the steerer tube is unsupported. 

If you take a tube, put it inside two pieces of tube that are clamped together to form a rigid unit, then it is the strength of the outer tube that matters. So long as the combined outer tube can withstand the compression and bending forces, there is little stress in the inner tube, except where it exits the ends of the outer tube. In a bike, the stem, spacers, upper bearing cap, upper bearing, head tube, lower bearing should all combine into a rigid system to support the steerer tube.

So what it comes down to is a longer steerer tube just needs to be supported by an appropriate spacer. 

Just out of interest, what is the incidence of steerers breaking above the head tube, vs at the fork crown? And what is difference between adding 1cm to the stem, vs adding 1 cm to the steerer?


----------



## yot

*look alike bikes*

Hi ,can anyone please tell me if there are chinese frames that look exactly like the originals ?
im looking for road,tt, and mtb frames ,but i want them to look 99 % as the originals ,can some one help me this ? thanks a lot .


----------



## Boombaux

most of these frames are similar to big name ones but easy to spot to someone who knows bikes. i hope you don't plan on putting the logos of the original bike on...


----------



## turbogrover

mrcreosote said:


> I acknowledge the increase in leverage, but the leverage is not acting in the steerer tube alone. Don't the spacers mechanically form part of the headset stack? They are resting on the headset. It isn't like a quill stem, where the extension of the stem out of the steerer tube is unsupported.
> 
> If you take a tube, put it inside two pieces of tube that are clamped together to form a rigid unit, then it is the strength of the outer tube that matters. So long as the combined outer tube can withstand the compression and bending forces, there is little stress in the inner tube, except where it exits the ends of the outer tube. In a bike, the stem, spacers, upper bearing cap, upper bearing, head tube, lower bearing should all combine into a rigid system to support the steerer tube.
> 
> So what it comes down to is a longer steerer tube just needs to be supported by an appropriate spacer.
> 
> Just out of interest, what is the incidence of steerers breaking above the head tube, vs at the fork crown? And what is difference between adding 1cm to the stem, vs adding 1 cm to the steerer?


The difference is how it triangulates with the top tube. Anything above the top tube is considered unsupported, whether its a quill stem or sitting on spacers. The top cap of the stem doesn't offer enough strength to properly squeeze the spacers, to consider them a solid support tube. The leverage at the handlebars is enough to flex the steerer at the stem clamp area. The farther away you get from the top tube, the more leverage you can exert on the steerer.

If you're not an agressive rider, it doesn't matter. If you're muscular or heavier, and like to stand up on climbs. or sprint, then use caution with a big spacer stack.


----------



## Boombaux

does anyone have an adapter for their headtube? i'm not sure if i could find one that would work since the bearing cups are angular contact in the headtube.
or does the reducer go directly into the bearing?


----------



## mrcreosote

turbogrover said:


> The difference is how it triangulates with the top tube. Anything above the top tube is considered unsupported, whether its a quill stem or sitting on spacers. The top cap of the stem doesn't offer enough strength to properly squeeze the spacers, to consider them a solid support tube. The leverage at the handlebars is enough to flex the steerer at the stem clamp area. The farther away you get from the top tube, the more leverage you can exert on the steerer.
> 
> If you're not an agressive rider, it doesn't matter. If you're muscular or heavier, and like to stand up on climbs. or sprint, then use caution with a big spacer stack.


The top cap isn't what holds it together. Once the stem is clamped, it is the stem that holds it all together, otherwise you wont get the bearing surfaces together. Also, there is a difference between multiple, small spacers (as is usually supplied with bikes) and a single, solid spacer (as is available after-market). Why doesn't the spacer support the steerer tube and transfer the forces down to the head tube?

"*The leverage at the handlebars is enough to flex the steerer at the stem clamp area.*" This true regardless of the length of the steerer, and is a function of the stem length and handlebar reach. Did you mean to say to say 'at the top of the head tube'? And again, what is the difference between 30mm stack+120mm stem against 50mm stack and 90mm stem?


----------



## amedal

Hey all!

After the small paint fiasco, I finally got on it and finished my first build. Very happy with the bike overall. I think this frame paired up with the Ksyrium SL wheels make up for a very smooth responsive ride. Couldnt be happier. 

Frame: FM018 from DengFU size 54
Handlebar: HED Original
Aerobars: Oval alloy single bend extensions
Stem: Nashbar 80mm 7deg. (temporary, pending fit)
Shifters: Dura Ace SLBS79 Double 10spd
Brake/shift cables: Jagwire Racer Kit
Wheels: Ksyrium SL
Tire Front: Continental GP 4 Seasons
Tire Rear: Continental GatorSkin.
Bar tape: Sunlite
Front derrailleur: Shimano Ultegra 6600
Rear derrailleur: Shimano Ultegra 6600
Crankset: Shimano Ultegra 6600 53-39 172.5
Bottom bracket: Shimano Ultegra 6700 Hollowtech II
Chain: Shimano DUra Ace
Rear cassette: Shimano Dura Ace 11-25
Pedals: Shimano Ultegra 6610
Front brake: Tektro 530, white
Rear brake: Tektro 725 side pull, black
Brake pads: Shimano R55C3
Saddle: Profile Design Tri-Stryke
Skewers: XLC Quick Release Skewers
Bike computer: Motorola MotoActv

Total Weight: 19.4 lbs, with pedals and all. 


Here are a few pics...


----------



## TehYoyo

Hey guys. Do the Dogma 65.1 Think2 replicas from Kode Bike (Here) have the same cable routing features as the real Dogmas?


----------



## ptsbike55

Amedal,
I like it. Very nice.


----------



## amedal

Thanks ptsbike55!


----------



## pyattbl

amedal said:


> Thanks ptsbike55!


 Amedal - that is a beautiful color scheme and paint job. NICE!!


----------



## amedal

Thanks pyattbl. :thumbsup: 

Im pretty happy with it. Took it for a few rides already and feels like an entire different world compared to my prior tri bike (2009 Felt S32, alluminum and very heavy!)

Looking forward to some longer rides on it as well as some hill action...


----------



## turbogrover

mrcreosote said:


> The top cap isn't what holds it together. Once the stem is clamped, it is the stem that holds it all together, otherwise you wont get the bearing surfaces together. Also, there is a difference between multiple, small spacers (as is usually supplied with bikes) and a single, solid spacer (as is available after-market). Why doesn't the spacer support the steerer tube and transfer the forces down to the head tube?
> 
> "*The leverage at the handlebars is enough to flex the steerer at the stem clamp area.*" This true regardless of the length of the steerer, and is a function of the stem length and handlebar reach. Did you mean to say to say 'at the top of the head tube'? And again, what is the difference between 30mm stack+120mm stem against 50mm stack and 90mm stem?


No, I really meant to say at the stem clamp area. I'm not sure how else to explain it. The top cap delivers all the clamp force to the spacers. the stem clamp bolts just maintain that clamp force. The steerer flexes where it is clamped, down to where it is rigid. (at the top tube.) It means the stack of spacers is also not rigid, so it's not doing the job of supporting the steerer tube. The more spacers you have between the bottom of the stem, and the top of the top tube, the more it'll flex, since you are increasing the length of lever arm from the handlebars to the top tube.

If, for example, you could have the top tube mounted really low near the downtube, but kept a long headtube, the headtube would also be unsupported, and flexible. The difference in your example is 20mm more of unsupported steerer tube.

And again, its not really an issue, unless you're an agressive rider that puts a lot of force on the handlebars.


----------



## Boombaux

has anyone had their fm029 internally routed? if so, any problems with it? the entry holes seem a little tight/off center. did you put the bare cable in or housing too?


----------



## rbart4506

Should be bare cable for all. There are internal guides for the cables. I have two frames ready for cabling, just haven't gotten around to doing it. I see no issues...


----------



## iherald

I'm thinking of building a bike for my girlfriend. She loves to ride, and has a $20 garage sale bike. She is a social worker (read: poor) so we'd try to keep it cheap. One option is to go to the local fall bike show and get a cheap aluminum bike. The bike show is next week.

Otherwise, we were at the bike store and looking at Specialized aluminum bikes which were close to $1000. I said for a little more we would be able to go with a carbon chinese bike. I can get some lightly used Ultegra for $400 or so, alright wheels for $300, so the idea is to keep the frame as cheap as possible.

Any recommendations on the place to get the least expensive (not cheap) frame / fork combo? I saw e- Hong Fu has the HF-FM001+FO001 for $325. Any other ideas?


----------



## Crappymonkey

iherald said:


> I'm thinking of building a bike for my girlfriend. She loves to ride, and has a $20 garage sale bike. She is a social worker (read: poor) so we'd try to keep it cheap. One option is to go to the local fall bike show and get a cheap aluminum bike. The bike show is next week.
> 
> Otherwise, we were at the bike store and looking at Specialized aluminum bikes which were close to $1000. I said for a little more we would be able to go with a carbon chinese bike. I can get some lightly used Ultegra for $400 or so, alright wheels for $300, so the idea is to keep the frame as cheap as possible.
> 
> Any recommendations on the place to get the least expensive (not cheap) frame / fork combo? I saw e- Hong Fu has the HF-FM001+FO001 for $325. Any other ideas?


Are you in Toronto? The bike show is a good place to start looking for a cheap complete bike. Trek ususally has a booth and they have a huge line so it must be a good deal. Another option is to go to Sportcheck. They currently have some Jamis bikes at 40% off and you can sometimes use a team assist coupon for an extra 10%-20% off.

Building a bike is not that cheap once you get into tools (which you'll use again), extra stuff like pedals, bottle holders, shipping.... it adds up.


----------



## iherald

I am in Toronto, so we're hopeful for a good deal at the bike show. I have the tools, but you're right its all the small things like cables that add up! But the idea is you pay a little more now but you have a carbon bike that you can ride for a long time without need to upgrade.


----------



## Boombaux

are there any aftermarket headsets that'll work with these? having a hard time finding integrated tapered with angular contact


----------



## webdoctors

damn Amedal!

that bike looks sick!

Its the best looking bike I've EVER seen. I'd be scared to ride that thing in public, I'd get hit by a car and it'd get stolen before I even got off the sidewalk.


----------



## TehYoyo

That looks super super sweet. Great build!


----------



## amedal

Thanks y'all!

Now I just need to save some money and slap some disc/carbon wheels on that thing, then she'll be complete!


----------



## loona

see the carbon process.
it is very complex
How It's Made - Carbon Fiber Bicycles (Guru) 1080P - YouTube


----------



## Boombaux

loona said:


> see the carbon process.
> it is very complex
> How It's Made - Carbon Fiber Bicycles (Guru) 1080P - YouTube


i believe most if not all of the chinese frames are open mould


----------



## cyclist_sg

My new frame is completed! Now to get the BB86 









and swap over from my previous setup on the FM-757.


----------



## cyclist_sg

Boombaux said:


> are there any aftermarket headsets that'll work with these? having a hard time finding integrated tapered with angular contact


Hi,

There seems to be ample choices for aftermarket headsets in Ebay. Notable brands to look for are NECO, FSA and Ritchey Pro. I am not too sure about Cane Creek headsets as they usually have some weird proprietry standards.

HS008 Alloy Road MTB 29ER TT Bike Tapered Integrated Headset - 1 1/8" ~ 1 1/2" | eBay

Ritchey Pro Drop-in Tapered Headset 1.5 to 1-1/8 15mm 796941331845 | eBay

Hope this helps somewhat.

Regards,
Pat


----------



## trinite

I am looking for a new bike and am between several options. I would like to spend no more then $4000 all in if possible. Most of my rides are in the 35-65m range and I do plan on doing a few tri's/duathons but most of my riding is recreational. I am a 34 yr old male 5'`10'' and weigh approximately 190 and am pretty good shape. I have test ridden the BMC Road Racer Ultegra 2012 and the Race Machine SRAM 2012 as well as the Roubaix Pro Dura Ace 2012 and the Cannondale Super Six. I don't think I need the higher end BMC or Specialized Pro with Dura Ace for my first bike but am willing to spend it if I really need to. I thought the SuperSix was a bit too aggressive in its geometry for me. I felt pretty good on the BMC Road Racer Ultegra but I am reading everywhere that it is a pure entry level bike. I do not want to get something that is too entry level as I want to stay on it for a long time and do some races as well. I have read a bunch about the 2013 Trek Madone 5.2 H2 Ultegra and am interested in that but have not found one just yet at my LBS. I would also like to test drive a Cannondale Synapse and a Felt (not sure which one yet). I heard from LBS employee that the Trek has bad tortional stiffness but who really knows. If anyone can give me some insight it would be much appreciated as I really don't want to make the wrong choice! Thanks for your help!


----------



## Mankul

cyclist_sg said:


> My new frame is completed! Now to get the BB86
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and swap over from my previous setup on the FM-757.


Nice one Pat.... I'm tempting by the new 65.1 madog


----------



## Mankul

kweenam said:


> Hi,
> Any one see the real thing with painting (not seen anyone carry in the web) - RFM301 (Greatkeen)
> Closer to Dogma 2 or dogma 65.1
> 
> GreatKeen Bike Sport Equipment Co.,Ltd


Great... just less than a year after I got the RFM201 :cryin:


----------



## ptsbike55

Has anyone heard of or dealt with the company Yoeleo? They put an add in the forum section of a cycling website I use.


----------



## vaetuning

*Miracle Trade / Miracle Bike a scam???*

]Hi Guys

I have been very active in the previous Chinese carbon threads, but until recently, I have kind of been minding my self and my riding.
But now I seem to have quite the problem with a “Peter Pan” from Miracle Bike / Miracle Trade.

It all started out rather good, and communication was fast and good. I ended up ordering a couple of frames for our small company, received some of them, and all was good, but then....!!

I ordered a TT and a road frame, several months ago, and initially communication was good, but then this "Peter" dropped completely off the grid, and mails came bouncing back!!
I then started calling all numbers I could find in relation to the company, simultaneously I mailed all known addresses to the above companies, and was told that Peter had left Miracle Trade, and started somewhere else (Miracle Bike). Stupid me, I thought that we made an order with the company – but alas – We actually made an order with the person, so Miracle Trade couldn’t care a toss about me and our order - they just kept saying that I should contact Peter - and finally they provided me with a cell number and I got a hold off Peter. At first communication was rather slow, but then he provided me with his new mail address and everything was fine for a while.
He promised me that the frame should be finished "next Weekend" 4 or 5 times, and another month or so went by!!
Then he fell of the grid again, and the phone number was unreachable, his mail returned an automated reply - I then mailed all known addresses again, and finally I was told that he was on vacation, and he would be back 8th. of October!!
The person responding, calling herself Season, told me in a mail, that my frame would be shipped next weekend - STILL NO FREAKIN' FRAME though, and another 2 weeks has gone by!!

I made a 50% down payment at the end of JUNE, 2012!! And I have still not received any frame, nor have I gotten any explanation for the delay!!:cryin:

Starting to get just a little annoyed over this - it is simply NOT OK, and I will not accept getting ripped of by anybody!! NOT IN CHINA OR ANYWHERE ELSE FOR THAT MATTER!!:mad5:

Just thought I’ll let you guys know, so that you do not end up in the same lame situation as I!!:mad2:

Anybody got any suggestions as to what to do about this??

Obviously I’ll be the first to tell you if anything should change in my situation, but for now I’m really keen on getting the frames and resolve the situation!!

With respect

M


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

Sorry you ended up on this situation ... Cheers for the headsup.

When I was researching for an open mold frame 6 to 9 months back. Miracle was a supplier to be wary of. True in this case it was someone who used to work there ... 

Hope things work out for you.


----------



## vaetuning

*Miracle Trade / Miracle Bike a scam???*



c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Sorry you ended up on this situation ... Cheers for the headsup.
> 
> When I was researching for an open mold frame 6 to 9 months back. Miracle was a supplier to be wary of. True in this case it was someone who used to work there ...
> 
> Hope things work out for you.


Hi Chinaman

Thanks for your sympathy!!

Yeah - the frames we did receive from them was quite godd, and the paintjob / quality was impressive - very sorry that it came to this - I do not not usually "wash my laundry in public", but I really need some help here!!

If I do not achieve anything else - I hope to alert my fellow bike riders around the world!!

With respect

M


----------



## logrus

Mankul said:


> Great... just less than a year after I got the RFM201 :cryin:


That's not so bad, they released the 301 just as my 201 arrived at my house :cryin:


----------



## leonidnk

*Dengfu makes dangerous parts*

Dengfu Sports Equipment Co., Limited (http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/ http://dengfubikes.com/) does not have any quality control.
After about 40 minutes of ride, the new Dengfu integrated handlebar got completely broken, see pictures. I could be killed, but I had a luck and just before accident I turned from hard asphalt road on soft forest path. I received a number of wounds, I bled profusely. Later I got sepsis, and have been treated with antibiotic.
However, I cannot get any acceptable concrete answer from the supplier. The supplier feeds me with promises, but nothing done. And they continue to sell the handlebars, which is mortal danger for customers.
Regards


----------



## Kestreljr

leonidnk said:


> Dengfu Sports Equipment Co., Limited (http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/ http://dengfubikes.com/) does not have any quality control.


Just subscribing to this thread... I am betting this one gets interesting.


----------



## vaetuning

*Miracle Trade / Miracle Bike a scam???*

Hi Guys

I have been very active in the previous Chinese carbon threads, but until recently, I have kind of been minding my self and my riding.
But now I seem to have quite the problem with a “Peter Pan” from Miracle Bike / Miracle Trade.

It all started out rather good, and communication was fast and good. I ended up ordering a couple of frames for our small company, received some of them, and all was good, but then....!!

I ordered a TT and a road frame, several months ago, and initially communication was good, but then this "Peter" dropped completely off the grid, and mails came bouncing back!!
I then started calling all numbers I could find in relation to the company, simultaneously I mailed all known addresses to the above companies, and was told that Peter had left Miracle Trade, and started somewhere else (Miracle Bike). Stupid me, I thought that we made an order with the company – but alas – We actually made an order with the person, so Miracle Trade couldn’t care a toss about me and our order - they just kept saying that I should contact Peter - and finally they provided me with a cell number and I got a hold off Peter. At first communication was rather slow, but then he provided me with his new mail address and everything was fine for a while.
He promised me that the frame should be finished "next Weekend" 4 or 5 times, and another month or so went by!!
Then he fell of the grid again, and the phone number was unreachable, his mail returned an automated reply - I then mailed all known addresses again, and finally I was told that he was on vacation, and he would be back 8th. of October!!
The person responding, calling herself Season, told me in a mail, that my frame would be shipped next weekend - STILL NO FREAKIN' FRAME though, and another 2 weeks has gone by!!

I made a 50% down payment at the end of JUNE, 2012!! And I have still not received any frame, nor have I gotten any explanation for the delay!!

Starting to get just a little annoyed over this - it is simply NOT OK, and I will not accept getting ripped of by anybody!! NOT IN CHINA OR ANYWHERE ELSE FOR THAT MATTER!!

Just thought I’ll let you guys know, so that you do not end up in the same lame situation as I!!

Anybody got any suggestions as to what to do about this??

Obviously I’ll be the first to tell you if anything should change in my situation, but for now I’m really keen on getting the frames and resolve the situation!!

With respect

M


----------



## amedal

A couple of questions...

1) Did you pay via Paypal? Even though the 45 days are gone to get better leverage on disputes, they should still be able to put some pressure on them.

2) When you ordered your frames, you ordered them through Miracle Trade, correct? At that point they are responsible for your order. If Peter leaves the company its not your fault, still Miracle Trade's obligation to back up the transaction. 

I would definitely consider raising complaints against Miracle, not Peter. Even if he gets fired, your transaction was done while he was representing or working for Miracle. So they are the ones who would be responsible for your order. If anything, they should then put pressure on Peter somehow if they wanted to.

Good luck buddy, and thanks for the heads up...
A


----------



## eidolon

leonidnk said:


> Dengfu Sports Equipment Co., Limited (http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/ http://dengfubikes.com/) does not have any quality control.


That sounds pretty bad, and the photo doesn't look good.

However, someone has to ask: how is it that you've had an RBR account for 8 years and have never posted until today?


----------



## leonidnk

eidolon said:


> how is it that you've had an RBR account for 8 years and have never posted until today?


Answer is simple:
I did come back to road biking for 8 years ago, and visited the Forum to get last information regarding road bikes. I registered me just to see pictures.
Never have had any cause to post until now.


----------



## greenjt

Ha, I've got him beat... Ten years before my first post.


----------



## Cyclin Dan

leonidnk said:


> Dengfu Sports Equipment Co., Limited (http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/ http://dengfubikes.com/) does not have any quality control.
> After about 40 minutes of ride, the new Dengfu integrated handlebar got completely broken, see pictures. I could be killed, but I had a luck and just before accident I turned from hard asphalt road on soft forest path. I received a number of wounds, I bled profusely. Later I got sepsis, and have been treated with antibiotic.
> However, I cannot get any acceptable concrete answer from the supplier. The supplier feeds me with promises, but nothing done. And they continue to sell the handlebars, which is mortal danger for customers.
> Regards


I had a $575 Specialized S-Works Barmac handlebar snap on me...I went down hard too. Not saying this to promote or defend the Chinese guys (I don't own one of those bikes), just letting you know it can happen with top of the line name brand stuff as well.


----------



## leonidnk

***** happens*



Cyclin Dan said:


> ...just letting you know it can happen with top of the line name brand stuff as well.


Yes, why not. Chines stuff is generally good. **** happens. But I expected more responsible reaction from the supplier.
Soon will be one months after the accident, but I did not receive new handlebar as a replacement. They even did not send one.


----------



## toddious

Speaking of carbon integrated handlebars, are the same vendors recommended? When I was looking at a Chinese Carbon frame, I was planning to purchase through Alibaba from GreatKeen. They sell the integrated "MOST" bars, but not the same style as others (and not the style I like as much). 

Has anyone bought from John Lui on Alibaba? He has the integrated bars in the style I like, and he responded and told me he could make them in a matte finish for me. Reliable source or no? 

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/EMS-...road-Integrated-handlebar-stem/522029949.html


----------



## Cyclin Dan

leonidnk said:


> Yes, why not. Chines stuff is generally good. **** happens. But I expected more responsible reaction from the supplier.
> Soon will be one months after the accident, but I did not receive new handlebar as a replacement. They even did not send one.


All Specialized offered me was a 20% discount on a new one (the bike shop had them marked down 35%). I told then to shove it.


----------



## leonidnk

Cyclin Dan said:


> All Specialized offered me was a 20% discount on a new one


Looks as bikes industry sense of service far away from car industry sense of service.:sad:


----------



## FalseBuddha

leonidnk said:


> Yes, why not. Chines stuff is generally good. **** happens. But I expected more responsible reaction from the supplier.
> Soon will be one months after the accident, but I did not receive new handlebar as a replacement. They even did not send one.


One of the things you give up to get the deals you do on their parts is reasonable expectation of any kind of warranty or help from them. I don't know what you expected.


----------



## TehYoyo

toddious said:


> Speaking of carbon integrated handlebars, are the same vendors recommended? When I was looking at a Chinese Carbon frame, I was planning to purchase through Alibaba from GreatKeen. They sell the integrated "MOST" bars, but not the same style as others (and not the style I like as much).
> 
> Has anyone bought from John Lui on Alibaba? He has the integrated bars in the style I like, and he responded and told me he could make them in a matte finish for me. Reliable source or no?
> 
> EMS FREE SHIPPING PINARELLO MOst TALON Full carbon fiber/road Integrated handlebar stem-in Bicycle Handlebar from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com


Look at their feedback - almost flawless.


----------



## vaetuning

*Miracle Trade / Miracle Bike a scam???*



amedal said:


> A couple of questions...
> 
> 1) Did you pay via Paypal? Even though the 45 days are gone to get better leverage on disputes, they should still be able to put some pressure on them.
> 
> 2) When you ordered your frames, you ordered them through Miracle Trade, correct? At that point they are responsible for your order. If Peter leaves the company its not your fault, still Miracle Trade's obligation to back up the transaction.
> 
> I would definitely consider raising complaints against Miracle, not Peter. Even if he gets fired, your transaction was done while he was representing or working for Miracle. So they are the ones who would be responsible for your order. If anything, they should then put pressure on Peter somehow if they wanted to.
> 
> Good luck buddy, and thanks for the heads up...
> A


Hi Arnedal

Sadly - I've been doing bank transfers - I've just been paying 50% downpayment to make sure that I received the frames we ordered!!

And Yes - I ordered through Miracle Trade!!

Cheers

M


----------



## YamaDan

leonidnk said:


> Dengfu Sports Equipment Co., Limited (Dengfu Sports Equipment Co., Limited - carbon frame, carbon wheel, bike part dengfubikes) does not have any quality control.
> After about 40 minutes of ride, the new Dengfu integrated handlebar got completely broken, see pictures. I could be killed, but I had a luck and just before accident I turned from hard asphalt road on soft forest path. I received a number of wounds, I bled profusely. Later I got sepsis, and have been treated with antibiotic.
> However, I cannot get any acceptable concrete answer from the supplier. The supplier feeds me with promises, but nothing done. And they continue to sell the handlebars, which is mortal danger for customers.
> Regards


Well, first off, glad you survived. That totally sucks. Did you hear or feel anything different before the break? A pop or anything? CF stuff can be weird when it goes.


----------



## leonidnk

YamaDan said:


> Did you hear or feel anything different before the break? A pop or anything?


No, nothing. I turned from paved road on descending uneven path, and the handlebar got off on the first unevenness of the ground.:shocked:


----------



## Tswifty

leonidnk said:


> No, nothing. I turned from paved road on descending uneven path, and the handlebar got off on the first unevenness of the ground.:shocked:


Just curious what Stem/Handlebar length/width were you using? And how tight were the bolts?


----------



## leonidnk

Tswifty said:


> what Stem/Handlebar length/width were you using? And how tight were the bolts?


120/440 mm; 6.0 Nm


----------



## stevepeter83

So all in all, is it worth to take the plunge with the Chinarellos or better to just buy the big brands although price is 2, 3, 4 times more expensive (plus knowing that big brands can also fail)?

I'm still interested in the Yellow Chinarello...looks so good...I mean, for commuting it will work quiet well. My only concern is, as I normally share the road with the motorists on the way to work, having something snap during commuting may kill me.


----------



## stevepeter83

Oh and also, what's the performance of the Chinarellos anyway? eg. ride quality, harshness, stiffness, cornering, acceleration etc.

If I want to use it for century rides (which the type of riding I am normally in anyway), will you recommend them? 

A lot of the discussions I notice are about the quality and durability of the frame which a lot of us have obviously proven, but what about ride quality and performance?


----------



## rbart4506

I don;t know how many times I have to say this, but here we go again 

I had a 2010 Specialized Tarmac Expert, I now ride an FM-028 ISP. The wheels and tires are the same, saddle the same, components the same. Only difference is no seatpost on the FM-028 (ISP version) and the bars. I'm riding FSA Wing Compacts on the FM-028 and had the Specialized stock bars on the Tarmac.

The FM-028 is as good if not better then the Tarmac. It accelerates just as well, corners as well and is a touch more comfy on the rough stuff. I feel that I have lost nothing and in fact gained in performance by going with this frame...So much so that I have purchased an FM-029 as next year's race bike...

PS, I crashed the FM-028 a week ago doing 40kmh in a grand fondo. Bike was fine, on the hanger was bent, bars, shifter and saddle needed adjustment. Yes I landed right, but the bike was fine...

Get the bike...


----------



## leonidnk

rbart4506 said:


> The FM-028 is as good if not better then the Tarmac.


Yes, I use FM-028 too, and it is very good frame. I am always fastest on downhill.
However, I got a big trouble with Dengfu handlebar.


----------



## amedal

leonidnk said:


> 120/440 mm; 6.0 Nm


I've only built one bike, so by no means I am an expert on these issues.... But am I way off thinking that 6 nm is a bit too tight? I really cant correlate the tightness of the bolts to the nature of the breaking of the handlebars, Im not that knowledgeable on carbon stuff, I was juts curious about it. I usually see 5 n.m. specs for these bolts, and I personally never tighten them up past 4.5 nm, never had a problem... 

Just curious...


----------



## FalseBuddha

amedal said:


> I've only built one bike, so by no means I am an expert on these issues.... But am I way off thinking that 6 nm is a bit too tight? I really cant correlate the tightness of the bolts to the nature of the breaking of the handlebars, Im not that knowledgeable on carbon stuff, I was juts curious about it. I usually see 5 n.m. specs for these bolts, and I personally never tighten them up past 4.5 nm, never had a problem...
> 
> Just curious...


5nm is common, 4nm is more common on carbon stuff. I can't remember seeing anything meant for 6nm. That said, given how and where the bars failed I don't think overtightening the bolts is what did the damage.


----------



## AtomicMoose

my alloy bars say 6nm on them...


----------



## YamaDan

6nm is a lot.. the reason they have the spec is to prevent damage to the steerer and the stem. I learned this back in the day with a Mag mtb stem. If you "mongo" it, you could cause a fracture.

6nm = 53.1 inch pounds

http://www.thetoolhut.com/Torque-Conversion-Newton-Meters-Inch-Pounds.html

Most carbon stuff should be less than 5nm as a reference, or rule of thumb.

There's these cool 4mm torque wrenches, they're handy. 

http://www.performancebike.com/bike...=1318122078&catargetid=1572650787&cagpspn=pla

There was a comment back a bit as far as the car industry handeling things differently, I'd say that's not really a good comparison. If you're in an accident, the insurance co takes over. If they feel it's product related, they'll persue it with the manufacturer.

From a bike industry perspective, there's a lot of things that come back for "warranty." JRA is the number one thing that people start with. Example, "I was just riding along and my frame failed..." Customer sends in frame with compression damage to the downtube and top tube..and wood splinters sticking out of the head badge. Upon further questioning, he did come clean about driving into his garage with his bike on the roof. 

From a manufacturer perspective, things just don't arbitrally fail. There's always a cause. 

That cause may be with in what the product is capable of, and it might not be, but, you need to give the mfg something they can assign a failure cause to. 

For me, and this is for me alone, I get nervous when a customer starts off the conversation listing the injuries they incurred as a result of a product failure. In the auto industry, this always ended my conversation with them, I would refer them to their insurance company. In the bike industry, similar thing, it put's the manufacturer on the defensive. What do you want to accomplish? A new set of bars? Medical bills paid? A full investigation and recall on thousands of bars?

My suggestion would be to approach Dengfu with "Hey, I bought a set of your bars, I was psyched about them, they looked great, but, I must have gotten a bad pair, cause this happened" send picture. Offer to send them back, explain that you built the bike following the spec's they have listed, you rode the bike X miles, you didn't feel anything until the bars separtated. Wait for them to ask the next question. They'll ask if you crashed.. this kind of failure you'd expect it. 

You may have done all that, but remember, you're dealing with a company overseas, their focus is volume. If there are a lot of failures, it'll affect it. If there is one, not so much. Figure out what you want/need from them, and persue that. I hope this helps.


----------



## leonidnk

amedal said:


> But am I way off thinking that 6 nm is a bit too tight?


Please, see parktool.com/uploads/files/blog/torque.pdf


----------



## loona

is one of the Chinese carbon frame models known for having the least fatiguing ride ?

or most fatiguing ride ?


----------



## leonidnk

YamaDan said:


> What do you want to accomplish? A new set of bars? Medical bills paid? A full investigation and recall on thousands of bars?


In fact I have built 8 bikes for my friends of Dengfu framesets and handlebars. And it is a first (and I hope a last) accident.
What I want? I already wrote it to the Dengfu:
"1. Please, tell me how you test the handlebars;
2. Please, send me some test protocols;
3. Please, test carefully all similar handlebars as in my last order and send it to me to replace all 4 last handlebars. I do not want to risky my customers life and health. I believe, you do not want it too. It is too seriously;"

Very simple and just demands.


----------



## tmmartins

rbart4506 said:


> I don;t know how many times I have to say this, but here we go again
> 
> I had a 2010 Specialized Tarmac Expert, I now ride an FM-028 ISP. The wheels and tires are the same, saddle the same, components the same. Only difference is no seatpost on the FM-028 (ISP version) and the bars. I'm riding FSA Wing Compacts on the FM-028 and had the Specialized stock bars on the Tarmac.
> 
> The FM-028 is as good if not better then the Tarmac. It accelerates just as well, corners as well and is a touch more comfy on the rough stuff. I feel that I have lost nothing and in fact gained in performance by going with this frame...So much so that I have purchased an FM-029 as next year's race bike...
> 
> PS, I crashed the FM-028 a week ago doing 40kmh in a grand fondo. Bike was fine, on the hanger was bent, bars, shifter and saddle needed adjustment. Yes I landed right, but the bike was fine...
> 
> Get the bike...


i just received my FM029 today and I can't wait to have it all built and take it for a ride. This will be my winter project and will be ready for the spring riding season.


----------



## zacarter

*Shimano Di2 wiring on Dengfu FM069*

I got the DengFu FM069 frame with Di2 compatibility, but am having trouble wiring it. There are two holes located near the front deraileur. I suppose one is for the front deraileur cable and the other is for the battery cable, but only one of the two is big enough to accomodate the diameter of the wiring connectors. Is this a production defect? Is it safe to widen the hole with a drill bit myself?

Also, to anyone else who has built this with Di2, where are you mounting the battery? My frame doesn't have any extra holes drilled for the batter so I am assuming I need to get the longer battery strip from Shimano so I can mount it on the water bottle case holes. The short strip my battery holder came with is too short for that.


----------



## gemesif

*Dengfu Frame*



tmmartins said:


> i just received my FM029 today and I can't wait to have it all built and take it for a ride. This will be my winter project and will be ready for the spring riding season.


You can send photos?
The frame painted, or you're going to finish it?


----------



## YamaDan

leonidnk said:


> In fact I have built 8 bikes for my friends of Dengfu framesets and handlebars. And it is a first (and I hope a last) accident.
> What I want? I already wrote it to the Dengfu:
> "1. Please, tell me how you test the handlebars;
> 2. Please, send me some test protocols;
> 3. Please, test carefully all similar handlebars as in my last order and send it to me to replace all 4 last handlebars. I do not want to risky my customers life and health. I believe, you do not want it too. It is too seriously;"
> 
> Very simple and just demands.


Well, first off, "Demands" are not a good way to get results. And you may think they are simple, but they aren't.

I'm gonna translate what you're asking for into what I have experienced in the bike industry.

My frame broke, I demand a new one. I have four friends, they have the same frame, I want replacements for them as well. I also want to know what your inhouse QC process is, and I want you to send it to me in writing. (Keep in mind that you already raised the "I have injuries" red flag)

From an outsiders perspective, I personally, think you're asking for things that are not remotely going to happen based on the information you've given. But, by all means go get 'em.


----------



## greenjt

*Ican Sports AC012 TT Frame*

We don't see very many TT frames up on this thread so i thought i would do a quick review of my new AC012 TT frame from Ican Sports. 

Process.... This was my first purchase of an open mold carbon frame from China. The frame is available under different model names from other distributors at various prices both higher and lower. I made the decision to order from Ican, specifically Anna at Ican, for one primary reason - communication/service. I contacted multiple suppliers for the frame who communicated to varying degrees of completeness. As i was obviously buying this frame sight unseen, I had some very specific questions that i needed answered to be comfortable the fit would work for me. I was also obviously getting custom paint/graphics so needed to get comfortable with that process as there was only one shot at getting it right. Anna at Ican was the only distributor who took the time to completely answer all of my questions in a timely manner. So for that reason they earned my business. On that point, i would say that i would not hesitate to order through Anna again. The entire process with sales, design, paint, shipping was very smooth and very timely. I am very satisfied with the process.

The frame.... The frame itself looks great. The paint and decal work is very professionally done. The guys at my LBS love the bike and described it as "beautiful." The only issue i have is the decals on the seat mast were applied crooked (see pic) and it takes away from the overall tight professional look of the overall bike. The decal itself is underneath the clearcoat so I can't easily remove it. I have contacted Ican to see what we can do on that front. Other than that, the frame quality and finishing work is on par with what i see in the bike shops and I am very pleased with the product. I unfortunately haven't had much time to ride the bike yet but in the twenty short minutes i spend on it, it felt great. I have yet to dial in my position but so far i really like the ride. 

Here's a pic... not the best pic but i will put up some better pics in the picture thread when i get a few minutes:


----------



## beston

greenjt said:


> We don't see very many TT frames up on this thread so i thought i would do a quick review of my new AC012 TT frame from Ican Sports.


Well done Sir!


----------



## beston

leonidnk said:


> Please, see parktool.com/uploads/files/blog/torque.pdf


Torque specs vary depending on materials used and bolt specifications. Note on that pdf that the torque specs are specific to the manufacturer (down to the model) I've seen plenty of aluminum bar / stems that suggest 6nm, but never a carbon one. 

I typically use about 4.5nm of torque with carbon paste on carbon bars / stems / forks unless otherwise indicated by the manufacturer.

Please note - I'm not at all trying to imply that this is your doing. That kind of failure should never happen. I almost bought this bar along with my FM098 and I'm now very happy that I didn't do so. 

Actually, after an experience with a 'less-than-stiff' carbon handle bar, I've stuck with aluminum bars and stems. I also feel a little more safe (even if it is just psychological) with those parts because I don't have to worry (as much) with stem-to-handlebar torque specs.


----------



## AtomicMoose

greenjt said:


> We don't see very many TT frames up on this thread so i thought i would do a quick review of my new AC012 TT frame from Ican Sports.


Great bike and great feedback. Thanks!


----------



## martiryan

*should be good*

should be good


----------



## ejprez

How do I get one painted? I asked them and they sent me a pic and told me to paint it. I was thinking they should send me a photo shop type file with a blank white frame or something like that. The roll of making tape propping up the bike is priceless :lol:


----------



## Crappymonkey

ejprez said:


> How do I get one painted? I asked them and they sent me a pic and told me to paint it. I was thinking they should send me a photo shop type file with a blank white frame or something like that. The roll of making tape propping up the bike is priceless :lol:



I wrote about getting my frame painted by Dengfu here.....

Blog post


----------



## Crappymonkey

ejprez said:


> How do I get one painted? I asked them and they sent me a pic and told me to paint it. I was thinking they should send me a photo shop type file with a blank white frame or something like that. The roll of making tape propping up the bike is priceless :lol:


And here's a blank frame picture for you to mess around with :thumbsup:


----------



## ultraman6970

One thing for sure, that thing was 100% made of carbon. No way to know if the thing had a bubble inside or anything, maybe the did QC, but you always have chances of getting parts with problems, not defending them ok? U got the bad luck, thats all...

Doubt you will get any answer from them.

You can get a frame from a doubtful source but stems, seatposts and handlebars are quite another story.

ps: tell the doctor to give you something for the fungus problem you have in those toes.




leonidnk said:


> Dengfu Sports Equipment Co., Limited (Dengfu Sports Equipment Co., Limited - carbon frame, carbon wheel, bike part dengfubikes) does not have any quality control.
> After about 40 minutes of ride, the new Dengfu integrated handlebar got completely broken, see pictures. I could be killed, but I had a luck and just before accident I turned from hard asphalt road on soft forest path. I received a number of wounds, I bled profusely. Later I got sepsis, and have been treated with antibiotic.
> However, I cannot get any acceptable concrete answer from the supplier. The supplier feeds me with promises, but nothing done. And they continue to sell the handlebars, which is mortal danger for customers.
> Regards


----------



## cyclist_sg

Hi all,

Just an update on my new frameset I received last week. It is finally built with Campagnolo Chorus Compact 11 Speed with Mavic Ksyrium SLR wheelset. Here is how the finished build looks like.









More images at PATRICK-Sportec

Regards,
Pat


----------



## Rob81

got my fr316 few days ago, all installed except the powermeter which is in hw/sw upgrade.
I'll post pics/link when finished.
So now the fr315 will become my training bike, I'm going to pack and keep/sell an old and glorious fm015


----------



## hcarreathers

Rob81 said:


> got my fr316 few days ago, all installed except the powermeter which is in hw/sw upgrade.
> I'll post pics/link when finished.
> So now the fr315 will become my training bike, I'm going to pack and keep/sell an old and glorious fm015


I've been looking at the 316 for a while. Let us know how your build goes as well as where you got it and your dealings with them. Thanks. I hope you enjoy your new ride!


----------



## TehYoyo

cyclist_sg said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just an update on my new frameset I received last week. It is finally built with Campagnolo Chorus Compact 11 Speed with Mavic Ksyrium SLR wheelset. Here is how the finished build looks like.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More images at PATRICK-Sportec
> 
> Regards,
> Pat


That's a pretty wild color scheme...what frame?


----------



## aaronson37

Greenjt, how much was your frame ? Your frame looks like
a BlueAC1 frame .


----------



## Theodore

Recently picked up a lightly used FM039 from the classified here. SLOWLY building it up, most likely over the winter (gotta keep the wife happy, all of my hobbies seem to be $$$).

Need to get my post count up so I can throw together a build thread... No idea what I have in mind, but I have a line on a decently priced used Moots stem, but it takes 26mm bars, so I've been on the look out for those that aren't too old or heavy. Anyone have any experience with Profile Design bars? Looking at the Lava's...


----------



## timsen

My *FM098 Dura-ace Di2*










My* FM039 Ultegra 6700 new grey*


----------



## arrisawk

*Ican Sports SP-AC053*

Hi, a newbie here, considering buying the above frame direct from Ican via Sherry Xia, have been sent an invoice with a paypal account ([email protected]) how can I check if its genuine, Thanks Richard


----------



## BrendanH

Just wanted to give an update on my bike and wheels...I have had a Dengfu FM15 and a set of 50mm carbon clinchers from Yishun for about 1 year now and I am very happy. The bike performs great and for the price, it cannot be beat. As for the wheels, I love them. I have done a few 70.3s on them and lots of training miles and never an issue. 2 weeks prior to my last 70.3 i was in a crash going about 28mph on my TT bike and upon inspection by myself and later at a shop... there wasnt a thing wrong with the wheelset. I could not be happier.


----------



## loona

what chinese carbon frame model number is your favorite ?

these bike look better and better 
every single time i see another build.


----------



## leonidnk

loona said:


> what chinese carbon frame model number is your favorite ?


Dengfu FM028 Very fast frame!:thumbsup:


----------



## wevergo

timsen said:


> My *FM098 Dura-ace Di2*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My* FM039 Ultegra 6700 new grey*


Erg mooi, Timsen! :thumbsup:


----------



## zender

loona said:


> what chinese carbon frame model number is your favorite ?
> 
> these bike look better and better
> every single time i see another build.



NEWEST TIME TRIAL FRAME FM069

Pretty impressive for a "generic" frame.


----------



## jbrookeiv

roscoe said:


> I think you'll find friends generally forget to include freight, or customs fees in their budget number they tell you.
> 
> our OP was talking about "hoping" to keep an apex bike with a china carbon frame under $1500, maybe that's an easy thing to do, maybe it's not
> 
> if you're looking at a china carbon bike with apex for $1500 bucks vs what you can get at a LBS for $1500 bucks, there's some pretty good competition for the china bike
> 
> it's easy to lose track of your budget when buying a bit here and a bit there, then at the end look at all your recipts and feel like banging your head into the wall
> 
> if our OP goes china bike, he should really carefully keep track of the budget so he doesn't end up with a china bike that cost more than a name brand bike with a warranty.
> (which I'm sure he's fully capable of)


Here's my build with full Ultegra, including all shipping costs. All parts are completely new except the Ultegra group which was a take-off after 10 miles of riding. It would not be possible to get close to this weight for this price from a LBS or online with branded frames.

Make	Weight	Cost
Frame/Fork	Flyxii FR-315	1384	$490.00
Stem	Ritchey Pro 4axis	150	$34.99
Handlebar	Dengfu	220	$48.00
Bar Tape	Fizik Microtex	63	$17.95
Brake/Shifters	Shimano Ultegra	448	$610.00
Crankset	Shimano Ultegra	800	
Derailleurs – F	Shimano Ultegra	84	
Derailleurs – R	Shimano Ultegra	190	
Brakes	Shimano Ultegra	308	
Cassette	Shimano 105	238	$48.99
Chain	Shimano Ultegra	267	$31.99
Cables/Housing 
Headset	incl with frame	93	$0.00
Pedals	Forte Team Road	280	$0.00
Seatpost	Flyxii	163	$0.00
Saddle	Cutter	212	$0.00
Tires	Continental Gatorskins	460	$87.98
Tubes	Vittoria Latex	150	$29.68
Wheels	Vuelta Corsa-Lite	1523	$240.00

Totals	7033	$1,639.58

Weight in lb	15.50509246


----------



## jbrookeiv

Crappymonkey said:


> Hmmm... How would one go about ordering one of these? :blush2:


Too late, unfortunately. They will start the group buy for this year's kit in a few months. r/bicycling is the place to look for more info.


----------



## jbrookeiv

hotflash said:


> This is my first roadbike, the flyxii fr-315.
> It feels pro, but I have yet to shave my legs...


Beautiful! I have one on the way now. Can't wait for it to arrive!


----------



## castofone

Does anyone have the weight of the Dengfu FM029 frame?

I pranged my FM028 and I'm trying to decide among replacing it with another FM028 or an FM029 or upgrading to an FM066 SL. I very much liked the FM028. It handled nicely and was stiff enough and comfortable enough. 

The FM029 I understand is the same as the FM028 with some minor refinement. My old FM028 frame weighed 1040 g.

The FM066 SL is ~850 g in 52cm size and reportedly nicely compliant without being noodley. My inner weenie is aroused 


<edit> Oh! if anyone is interested in seeing how an FM028 fails when ridden into the end of a concrete culvert driveway crossing at 15 to 20 kph I'll post some photos. Basically the down tube broke near the head tube and the head tube crushed between the top and down tubes. The top tube seems undamaged. The fork seems to be ok.


----------



## ultimo

stevepeter83 said:


> So all in all, is it worth to take the plunge with the Chinarellos or better to just buy the big brands although price is 2, 3, 4 times more expensive (plus knowing that big brands can also fail)?
> 
> I'm still interested in the Yellow Chinarello...looks so good...I mean, for commuting it will work quiet well. My only concern is, as I normally share the road with the motorists on the way to work, having something snap during commuting may kill me.


On the flipside if you dont get killed the insurance payout would be cool!


----------



## ultimo

leonidnk said:


> Yes, I use FM-028 too, and it is very good frame. I am always fastest on downhill.
> However, I got a big trouble with Dengfu handlebar.


If it were me, I would just get the frame and not skimp on a good branded bar.

Think about all the weight you put on the bar and the leverage on both ends. Add on all the twists and turns = a recipe for disaster waiting to happen....just my two cents.


----------



## ptsbike55

> On the flipside if you dont get killed the insurance payout would be cool!


There is no amount of insurance that can replace your health!


----------



## leonidnk

ultimo said:


> If it were me, I would just get the frame and not skimp on a good branded bar.
> 
> Think about all the weight you put on the bar and the leverage on both ends. Add on all the twists and turns = a recipe for disaster waiting to happen....just my two cents.


Looks, as it is not so simple. Please, see http://forums.roadbikereview.com/4133406-post2584.html - a good branded bar is not a 100% solution.


----------



## turbogrover

jbrookeiv said:


> Here's my build with full Ultegra, including all shipping costs. All parts are completely new except the Ultegra group which was a take-off after 10 miles of riding. It would not be possible to get close to this weight for this price from a LBS or online with branded frames.
> 
> Make	Weight	Cost
> Frame/Fork	Flyxii FR-315	1384	$490.00
> Stem	Ritchey Pro 4axis	150	$34.99
> Handlebar	Dengfu	220	$48.00
> Bar Tape	Fizik Microtex	63	$17.95
> Brake/Shifters	Shimano Ultegra	448	$610.00
> Crankset	Shimano Ultegra	800
> Derailleurs – F	Shimano Ultegra	84
> Derailleurs – R	Shimano Ultegra	190
> Brakes	Shimano Ultegra	308
> Cassette	Shimano 105	238	$48.99
> Chain	Shimano Ultegra	267	$31.99
> Cables/Housing
> Headset	incl with frame	93	$0.00
> Pedals	Forte Team Road	280	$0.00
> Seatpost	Flyxii	163	$0.00
> Saddle	Cutter	212	$0.00
> Tires	Continental Gatorskins	460	$87.98
> Tubes	Vittoria Latex	150	$29.68
> Wheels	Vuelta Corsa-Lite	1523	$240.00
> 
> Totals	7033	$1,639.58
> 
> Weight in lb	15.50509246


Really nice! I wonder why people proclaim so harshly that there's "NO WAY!" I could have a 15 lb. bike, when my component selection is far lighter than yours.


----------



## castofone

Re paint finish:

As I understand it the frames arrive from the factory to the vendors with a gloss clear coat finish.
If you order another finish, color or matte clear coat, do they then just spray that over the gloss coat or do they strip the gloss coat and start again? 

From a practical point of view you would expect them to just key the gloss coat and spray the finish coat on top. For matte clear that may be only a single coat. For white paint it could be several coats. In any case there would be a bit of extra weight in it. I'm wondering how much?


----------



## ptsbike55

> From a practical point of view you would expect them to just key the gloss coat and spray the finish coat on top. For matte clear that may be only a single coat. For white paint it could be several coats. In any case there would be a bit of extra weight in it. I'm wondering how much?


My frame weighed 970 gms from the factory. That was with a matt finish. I did some sanding and minimal painting and it went to 995 gms afterwards.I would think with a full color and clearcoat afterwards, it could easily be 100 gms or more additional.


----------



## tmmartins

rbart4506 said:


> The holes look good as far as I'm concerned...
> 
> I've got two frames, one for me and one for my wife, and both are top notch...
> 
> The one at the BB for FD cable had some debris, but I just pulled out Shoppy (the ShopVac) and it cleaned right up...
> 
> I really like the look of the Matte Black...
> 
> Been riding an FM-028 for most of the season and love the bike, hence the reason I'm jumping at the FM-029. Plus, the fact it's BSA made it a done deal for me. I'm trying to fight the move to BB30...


How does the cable route to the FD on the FM029? I see it comes out at the bottom of the tube just in front of the BB, but where does it go from there?


----------



## jbrookeiv

turbogrover said:


> Really nice! I wonder why people proclaim so harshly that there's "NO WAY!" I could have a 15 lb. bike, when my component selection is far lighter than yours.


I should have mentioned that 15.5 is estimated weight. Still in the build-up phase. :blush2:


----------



## biketowork

*order from Greatkeenbikes*

Hello,
i have been reading these posts for quite awhile and decided to order frame and wheels set from Greatkeenbike. After about a month i received a package from them with only the frame. I contact Skald to find out about my wheels, but so far no respond.

Do they normally shipped frame and wheels together or separately? 

Thanks


----------



## biketowork

do they normally shipped frame and wheels together or separately?


----------



## MKO

wheels are normally shipped separately in a different packaging to prevent any damages on the frame or the wheels.


----------



## jever98

zacarter said:


> I got the DengFu FM069 frame with Di2 compatibility, but am having trouble wiring it. There are two holes located near the front deraileur. I suppose one is for the front deraileur cable and the other is for the battery cable, but only one of the two is big enough to accomodate the diameter of the wiring connectors. Is this a production defect? Is it safe to widen the hole with a drill bit myself?
> 
> Also, to anyone else who has built this with Di2, where are you mounting the battery? My frame doesn't have any extra holes drilled for the batter so I am assuming I need to get the longer battery strip from Shimano so I can mount it on the water bottle case holes. The short strip my battery holder came with is too short for that.


If you do an internal wiring you usually install the connectors through the bottom bracket. Install all cables, have them exit at the bottom bracket, connect and seal, then put back in. Watch out that the connector or cables don't interfere with the crank axle.

Good luck and please post some pictures - I am curious to see what it looks like in real life!


----------



## loona

which company is the one 
that you would you buy your next Chinese carbon frame or wheel set from ?


----------



## jbrookeiv

loona said:


> which company is the one
> that you would you buy your next Chinese carbon frame or wheel set from ?


Dengfu, Hongfu, and Flyxii seem to be the most popular.


----------



## andrew_r

*Visp Carbon Ebay frame*

I did a search on here and elsewhere but haven't found much on these : seller abikegate has VISP branded frames for £27GBP - claim of a decent 1170 for 54cm frame and it comes with fork + h/s for the price.
That seller hasn't been around long but as paypal is available the risk is minimal ?
Anyone know of these - painted frameset with headset for that price seems v. cheap.


----------



## jbrookeiv

andrew_r said:


> I did a search on here and elsewhere but haven't found much on these : seller abikegate has VISP branded frames for £27GBP - claim of a decent 1170 for 54cm frame and it comes with fork + h/s for the price.
> That seller hasn't been around long but as paypal is available the risk is minimal ?
> Anyone know of these - painted frameset with headset for that price seems v. cheap.


Checked it out, £270GBP, not 27. :blush2:

Anyway, haven't heard anything about them, but don't expect to be able to return the frame if you don't like how it rides.


----------



## andrew_r

Missed off the last, and vital digit there !
No, wouldn't expect to get a return - wouldn't be worth the cost of the shipping anyway - more a query over the seller and also any info on the frame itself.


----------



## Tswifty

andrew_r said:


> I did a search on here and elsewhere but haven't found much on these : seller abikegate has VISP branded frames for £27GBP - claim of a decent 1170 for 54cm frame and it comes with fork + h/s for the price.
> That seller hasn't been around long but as paypal is available the risk is minimal ?
> Anyone know of these - painted frameset with headset for that price seems v. cheap.


Are they Visp track frames or road frames?
Ive heard the VISP track frames are heavy and you can get better else where. Road frames ive heard nothing about so no idea there.


----------



## andrew_r

Visp frame here is the carbon road frame - selling sizes 51/54 and 57 with 3 colourway options. Looking around I did see references to Visp frames but track frames was all I noticed.


----------



## pxx

Dadude said:


> And the frame looks awesome. The only thing that really sucks is, that the freakin' german custom put 48% anti dumping tariff + 4,7% normal tariff + 19% VAT on it  But did I mention that I love the frame


Yepp. Not only German custom, but the whole EU. Here in Finland it would be 48.5% + 4.7% + 23% VAT on everything you order from China or around there. Suddenly, Dirty Disco from the UK (none of those added costs) sounds again much more tempting.. :mad2:


----------



## timsen

*Guys*

What was the site of the framestickers.
I can't find it anymore.

*Please help me out*


----------



## jbrookeiv

timsen said:


> *Guys*
> 
> What was the site of the framestickers.
> I can't find it anymore.
> 
> *Please help me out*


Stickers Design


----------



## jmalcolm

*FM066 size 59*

new build here. i only have 20 miles on it so I'm going to with hold comments until I at least have a good solid 100 on it. I will say that it's a very light bicycle. Delivery was about 4 1/2 months but I think Hong Fu has inventory now so they're probably churning them out quicker


----------



## jbrookeiv

jmalcolm said:


> new build here. i only have 20 miles on it so I'm going to with hold comments until I at least have a good solid 100 on it. I will say that it's a very light bicycle. Delivery was about 4 1/2 months but I think Hong Fu has inventory now so they're probably churning them out quicker


Pictures?


----------



## svard75

Hi All,

A couple of months ago I bought a HongFu carbon cross fork. Today I took it off because there were a few issues with it I could not longer stand.
- Super flexy steertube. I had a 5mm spacer on the headset top cap, the front brake stop then a 10mm spacer before the stem. Okay maybe 20mm was too much but I then tried to mount the cable stop right on top of the top cap and the stem right on top of the cable stop and it was still super flexy. It flexed both at the crown race and the stem.
- The front brake chatter was terrible. So much that I stopped using my front brake! 
- The brake bosses are cheap. Removing the TRP eurox brakes caused the boss bolts to come right out of the fork legs.
I have no issues with their 1 1/8" to 1.5" forks but this 1 1/8" straight through full carbon cross fork is too soft.

Any ideas on replacement cross forks, preferably with an aluminum steerer?


----------



## leonidnk

svard75 said:


> I had a 5mm spacer on the headset top cap, the front brake stop then a 10mm spacer before the stem. Okay maybe 20mm was too much but I then tried to mount the cable stop right on top of the top cap and the stem right on top of the cable stop and it was still super flexy. It flexed both at the crown race and the stem.


Just mount Tektro brake cable stopper (Tektro brake cable stopper at a low price in the online bike shop www.rosebikes.com), and no problem.


----------



## svard75

leonidnk said:


> Just mount Tektro brake cable stopper (Tektro brake cable stopper at a low price in the online bike shop www.rosebikes.com), and no problem.


I tried a fork mounted cable stop and although the chatter went away the soft feeling of the fork did not. Actually I prefer the steertube cable stop. It looks cleaner and I have a lot more leverage. When mounted to the fork I had to have my cable hanger very close to the tire.


----------



## leonidnk

svard75 said:


> Actually I prefer the steertube cable stop. It looks cleaner and I have a lot more leverage. When mounted to the fork I had to have my cable hanger very close to the tire.


In fact, quite the contrary. Closer to tyre - more leverage. See The Geometry of Cantilever Brakes for details.
Regarding chatter/shudder, see Technical Q&A with Lennard Zinn: How to stop cyclocross brake chatter and Technical FAQ with Lennard Zinn: A detailed look at canti’ geometry


----------



## svard75

leonidnk said:


> In fact, quite the contrary. Closer to tyre - more leverage. See The Geometry of Cantilever Brakes for details.
> Regarding chatter/shudder, see Technical Q&A with Lennard Zinn: How to stop cyclocross brake chatter and Technical FAQ with Lennard Zinn: A detailed look at canti’ geometry


Hey thanks for that. Still prefer the alloy steertube. 
Fork ideas?


----------



## jmalcolm

jbrookeiv said:


> Pictures?


urggg! keep getting file errors when trying to upload. any idea what i'm doing wrong?


----------



## jmalcolm

ok, here we go. got it to attach


----------



## jmalcolm

two more


----------



## AvantDale

R5-esq look!


----------



## jbrookeiv

*New FR-315*

My new FR-315 arrived from China today, took exactly ten days from when it shipped. Shitty cell phone pictures are below with weights. I will post much better pictures as soon as it's built up (hopefully late tonight or tomorrow).


----------



## YamaDan

Nice.

I just did my first ride on my "Knock Off" frame.. All I can say is WOW! 

If the Chinese knock off rides like this, no wonder those guys in the tour are so fast, the real bikes must move themselves! 

I am very impressed with the ride, and the handling, like it's on rails. Very well planted.


----------



## jbrookeiv

I'm building the bike up now. Is this hanger bent? Please tell me no. They didn't include any extras.
View attachment 267898


View attachment 267899


----------



## ptsbike55

> I'm building the bike up now. Is this hanger bent? Please tell me no. They didn't include any extras


It could be bent, but that is not really a big deal. A couple of things to look at. First take it off and make sure there are no burrs or bumps that could be throwing it out of line, Then when you reinstall it, make sure it is tight. Usually companies do not fully tighten the hangers. Last, get a derailleur alignment tool and check the alignment. Even on high end bikes, it is common to have to align the hanger.


----------



## YamaDan

ptsbike55 said:


> It could be bent, but that is not really a big deal. A couple of things to look at. First take it off and make sure there are no burrs or bumps that could be throwing it out of line, Then when you reinstall it, make sure it is tight. Usually companies do not fully tighten the hangers. Last, get a derailleur alignment tool and check the alignment. Even on high end bikes, it is common to have to align the hanger.


Perfect answer. Don't forget to put loctite on the hanger screws. mine had paint on the screw holes that was pushing it over.


----------



## jbrookeiv

YamaDan said:


> Perfect answer. Don't forget to put loctite on the hanger screws. mine had paint on the screw holes that was pushing it over.


I took it off, it does seem bent. Not severely, but maybe enough to cause issues.


----------



## csneom4a1

My Hong Fu FM015 hanger had to be aligned from the get go. Never did figure out what the issue was. I just bought the alignment tool since my LBS wanted $15 for the job. Now all my friends can use the tool. Probably will pay for itself.

Just realigned it after 1800 miles. Somehow it got a little off centered.


----------



## SteveOz1

YamaDan said:


> Nice.
> 
> I just did my first ride on my "Knock Off" frame.. All I can say is WOW!
> 
> If the Chinese knock off rides like this, no wonder those guys in the tour are so fast, the real bikes must move themselves!
> 
> I am very impressed with the ride, and the handling, like it's on rails. Very well planted.


which frame?


----------



## castofone

AvantDale said:


> R5-esq look!


They look like an R5 but the geo (for the 52 anyway) is exactly like an C'dale Evo, really nothing like a Cervelo.


----------



## andrew_r

jbrookeiv said:


> I took it off, it does seem bent. Not severely, but maybe enough to cause issues.


Got this sorted yet ? I'm still poking around for a potential frame, that Flyxii seems a light frame for the price it can be bought for.


----------



## jbrookeiv

andrew_r said:


> Got this sorted yet ? I'm still poking around for a potential frame, that Flyxii seems a light frame for the price it can be bought for.


I'm going to have my LBS straighten it once I finish building up the bike. I already contacted Flyxii (through eBay where I purchased it) and they are sending a few extra hangers. 

For the price, it seems to be the lightest of all the frames I could find. $490 shipped, including seat post, fork, and headset, in matte black. Would have cost over $100 more for an FM-098 with all the same options.


----------



## Geamoga

Greetings!

I've been enjoying the overwhelming amount of information in this forum. Is there a list somewhere of which name-brand frames have been cloned (e.g. MC053 = Scott Foil)? Excuse me if this has been posted already, but I haven't been able to find any such information. Cheers!


----------



## leonidnk

Geamoga said:


> Greetings!
> 
> I've been enjoying the overwhelming amount of information in this forum. Is there a list somewhere of which name-brand frames have been cloned (e.g. MC053 = Scott Foil)? Excuse me if this has been posted already, but I haven't been able to find any such information. Cheers!


It is very hard to get know for sure. It can be clone or it can be exactly the same unpainted product.


----------



## andrew_r

jbrookeiv said:


> I'm going to have my LBS straighten it once I finish building up the bike. I already contacted Flyxii (through eBay where I purchased it) and they are sending a few extra hangers.
> 
> For the price, it seems to be the lightest of all the frames I could find. $490 shipped, including seat post, fork, and headset, in matte black. Would have cost over $100 more for an FM-098 with all the same options.


Thanks - so no initial ride report yet. Will await ...


----------



## YamaDan

SteveOz1 said:


> which frame?


One of the Pina copy's..


----------



## jbrookeiv

andrew_r said:


> Thanks - so no initial ride report yet. Will await ...


I'm riding it on a 25 mile group ride Saturday morning, will report back then.


----------



## lintonsofly

Has anyone used a full compact ultegra groupset on the fm098 and has the front shifting all been fine?


----------



## gemesif

*Painting & decals*

Will you paint it, makeing decals and logos?
:idea:


----------



## PauliG

pxx said:


> Yepp. Not only German custom, but the whole EU. Here in Finland it would be 48.5% + 4.7% + 23% VAT on everything you order from China or around there.


This cant be right. The 48% anti dumping is (or I thought it was) only for complete bikes. That is why manufacturers get frames made there, but assemble in Europe. The chinese are launching a challenge in Europe to this. See here:

Bike Europe - China Calls for Fairness in Anti-Dumping Review

Anyone from Ireland get caught for the anti dumping tax? Would be nice to know this before I order!


----------



## PauliG

Further information;

Goods nomenclature code: 8714911011 (Bikes or parts of bikes)

8714 91 - - Frames and forks, and parts thereof 

8714 91 10 - - - Frames 
- - - - Painted, anodised, polished and/or lacquered 

*8714 91 10 11 - - - - - Originating in or consigned from China:
- in quantities below 300 units per month or to be transferred to a party in quantities below 300 units per month; or
- to be transferred to another holder of an end-use authorisation or to exempted parties * 

It would seem to me that anyone that has been charged 48% on cost pluss 4.7% duty on that and VAT on the lot has been incorrectly charged by their EU Customs agency


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

PauliG said:


> Bike Europe - China Calls for Fairness in Anti-Dumping Review


First time I have heard of this ... Did a quick google and ... Yup comes under EU regulations ... Nothing I can find here in the UK for bicycles from China.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...nt&id=HMCE_PROD1_026952&propertyType=document

Thought UK was under the EU ... Oh well


----------



## PauliG

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Thought UK was under the EU ... Oh well


Yep, you are. Those rules apply to you. But anti dumping rules are aimed at manufacturers/importers. One off purchases shoudl not be charged the penal rate. But it seems to have happened in Germany and Finland. All those taxes would double the cost of the frame so not so cheap anymore!


----------



## Babb915

The bike looks great I also have an almost !


----------



## Dadude

PauliG said:


> This cant be right. The 48% anti dumping is (or I thought it was) only for complete bikes. That is why manufacturers get frames made there, but assemble in Europe. The chinese are launching a challenge in Europe to this. See here:
> 
> Bike Europe - China Calls for Fairness in Anti-Dumping Review
> 
> Anyone from Ireland get caught for the anti dumping tax? Would be nice to know this before I order!


The official EU Rules say that you need to pay the anti dumping tariff if the frameset s painted. What you are talking about is the old rule, they changed that. If it is painted you will need to pay.
You can how ever get a eori number and then apply for a permission that you do not need to pay the anti dumping. If you get this permission you can then import 300 frames a month for 3 years. 
If you need further help on this, just ask me


----------



## f3rg

jbrookeiv said:


> I'm going to have my LBS straighten it once I finish building up the bike.


Somehow, the hanger on my FM015 bent after about the first 200mi or so. I contacted Hongfu, and they sent me a couple spares, but I still haven't used them.

While I was waiting for the spares, I simply put the bent one in a vice and cranked down until it was once again straight. It's caused me no issues since then (1.5 years, 7k miles).


----------



## andrew_r

I'd certainly try straightening a hanger but as they are alloy and a failure can mean the rear mech ends up in the spokes and could even result in trashed frame I'd just go carefully try ensure it hadn't suffered any cracking.
<edit to correct my type re 'alloy'>


----------



## Leerac

Hi Guys!! need some advice and tips here about these unbranded cf..

im planning to buy one. but my concern is the weight limit for these road frames... since im around 220lbs.. Nancy from E-Hongfu told me that the weight limit for their frames is around 250lbs.. so is it safe for my fat ass to ride a unbranded cf?

Thanks


----------



## PauliG

Dadude said:


> You can how ever get a eori number and then apply for a permission that you do not need to pay the anti dumping. If you get this permission you can then import 300 frames a month for 3 years.


Thanks for the info. This is interesting and also strange. An EORI is just a customs procedure to streamline imports and gather data. Having one does not alter the quota of 300 per month or the rate payable over this, so how should not having one, or not being able to get one, mean you pay a higher penal rate of duty. That cant be fair. Not arguing with you Dadude, Customs can be very unfair in the treatment of people acting as end users versus importers with licences and freight handlers etc. 
Paying the 48% anti dumping plus 4.7% plus 23% VAT on the whole lot make importing a painted one into Europe uneconomic. So I guess I have to get an EORI or order an unpainted one. I wonder if in the eyes of customs does a matt finish count as paint?


----------



## LONDON-GUY

I have just finished my FM 098 build and am very happy with it. Had a short 30 mile ride and it did perform very well.

DSCF1881.jpg


----------



## YamaDan

That is one HOT looking Chick!


----------



## foocheck

lintonsofly said:


> Has anyone used a full compact ultegra groupset on the fm098 and has the front shifting all been fine?


I ran compact ultegra on the fm098 with no issues. Running compact s975 at the moment with no problems either. The front mech (di2) can go low enough to leave the 1-2mm gap with the 50 chainring.


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What is this ****?!:mad2:


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## gemesif

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Do not write more!
:mad2:


----------



## castofone

Calm down gemesif. The spam police will lop off their typing fingers.


----------



## Tswifty

So heres an odd question. Is anyone game enough to make the new FM069/086 into a aero road bike?
Could the geometry even work as a road frame?


----------



## cajer

Tswifty said:


> So heres an odd question. Is anyone game enough to make the new FM069/086 into a aero road bike?
> Could the geometry even work as a road frame?


I'm actually interested in the same thing and would love to hear any experience others have on this or any comments.


----------



## jever98

You would need to have a very extreme position on your road bike. Stack is way way lower than a normal bike and reach longer. Handling is also not fun for a road bike. Long wheel base and slack head tube angle


----------



## Rob81

my fr316









other pics and details=>https://www.massarob.info/2012/11/bici-2013-bike-2013.html



my fr315 (2012 bike, now a training bike)=> https://www.massarob.info/2012/04/bici-2012-bike-2012.html


----------



## twiggy

If anyone has a cheap Chineese time trial frame or bike they're looking to unload then let me know... I'm considering building up one for next summer but price is a primary concern as I'm already struggling to justify to friends/family/"the boss" why I already own 3 road bikes, a mountain bike, a CX bike, a commuting bike, etc....


----------



## yuyax

Is there something I am missing? There is a frame/fork on ebay going for $9459.46. But shipping is only $49.90

Sorry for not posting the link as I have posted only 2x. Wait... found the ebay ID, 160879389982


----------



## SteveOz1

I'm thinking there's a currency miscalculation there...


----------



## Andy STi

I am looking for help in finding the top tube length of an FM058 cross bike. All the size charts I have seen show actual length only, I am unable to find horizontal length. I have, of course, seen some charts for the integrated seat post version of that frame showing the TT measurement as horizontal. I'm confused.

I also posted in the cross forum but haven't gotten any help there.

Here is what I am talking about


















Thanks,
Andy


----------



## castofone

Well the ISP version has the horizontal measurement you are after. That's the equivalent top tube length. It will be the same for both versions.


----------



## Andy STi

castofone said:


> Well the ISP version has the horizontal measurement you are after. That's the equivalent top tube length. It will be the same for both versions.


Look closer, both have the same measurements. How do I know which one to trust?


----------



## MKO

Andy STi said:


> Look closer, both have the same measurements. How do I know which one to trust?


Go to Pedal Force super-light carbon bicycle and click the bicycle geometry tab and fill in all the measurements. The calculated geometry results will be displayed on the right side of the page.

For size 48, the effective top tube length is 504.3mm (if I entered the measurements correctly.)


----------



## cheeky_chops

...Finally registered as i have money burning a hole!!

2 questions on geometry please - i have entered my details in pedal force and it says:
Top Tube: 56.4
Seat Tube Length (C-C) 57.8
Stem Length; 130-140
Can i have suggestions on a good frame for me? They all see to be short on the seat tube

Secondly, i really like the FR315 on ebay (similar to felt AR series?) but the geo looks strange. For a 56 top tube it says the seat tube is only 50. How can that be??

Damn not enough posts for a link - The ebay item no is 350637094385


----------



## andrew_r

That ebay frame has the TT as a565 (measurement A), seat-tube (B) is 500 as it's a compact frame. Is like the Flyxii 315 I think.


----------



## Mr.Habanero

Rob81 said:


> my fr316
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> other pics and details=>massarob.info: Bici 2013 / Bike 2013
> 
> 
> 
> my fr315 (2012 bike, now a training bike)=> massarob.info: Bici 2012 | Bike 2012


Wow thats awesome. I have one of these im painting up and it gives me hope that mine will look great as well! Personally, l think its one of the best looking frames out there.


----------



## Mr.Habanero

Is that a different fork?


----------



## gemesif

*Logo question*

What is your painfing finish; 3k, 3k gloss?
The logo(massarob.info...) is decal, or painted?


----------



## Rob81

the fork is the one provided, I just bought a TT Campy u-Brake set, the front one can be mounted like this, that's the reason I had choose it 

3k matte finish (sorry blurry pics from a mobile)

decals are applied, no paint, it's heavy )


----------



## castofone

Andy STi said:


> Look closer, both have the same measurements. How do I know which one to trust?


Oh I see! Beg ya pardon.
It looks like there is enough there to confirm one of them. How are you at trig?

Never mind. I just calculated that for the ISP diagram for the 480 frame that B should be 504.4mm. It is marked as 487.5. This is consistent with the dimension being the true length of the top tube if the top tube has an angle of 15° and that would be about right for a 48 frame. So it looks like the dimensions on the second diagram (non-ISP) are correct and the ETT for the 48 is 504.4


----------



## castofone

MKO said:


> Go to Pedal Force super-light carbon bicycle and click the bicycle geometry tab and fill in all the measurements. The calculated geometry results will be displayed on the right side of the page.
> 
> For size 48, the effective top tube length is 504.3mm (if I entered the measurements correctly.)


I just visited that Pedalforce calculator and put my personal dimensions in. It gave me a totally ludicrous top tube length. The dimension would be in the ball park for frame reach, even then a bit short. Stem too was ludicrously short. Seat to pedal was a bit short too. The conventional seat tube sizing was right though. There's no way I could have mis-measured myself so badly. I think there's something wrong with it.


----------



## castofone

deleted


----------



## Z0RR0

Has anyone used any of these frames for a fixie setup?
Can they swap out the dropouts for fork ends when ordering?


----------



## MKO

castofone said:


> I just visited that Pedalforce calculator and put my personal dimensions in. It gave me a totally ludicrous top tube length. The dimension would be in the ball park for frame reach, even then a bit short. Stem too was ludicrously short. Seat to pedal was a bit short too. The conventional seat tube sizing was right though. There's no way I could have mis-measured myself so badly. I think there's something wrong with it.


I agree that the calculator's suggested frame measurement is a little bit off as it does not take account of your flexibility and other comfort factors. However it still could be used as a starting base for frame size fitting.

It works best if you want to compare a new bike's geo with your current bike - fill in the rider's preferred setup, then enter the new bike's geo.... it will suggest the new bike's stem length and spacer's height to keep your current bike's set up on the new bike. That's how I get a almost 'slam that stem' bike. :thumbsup:


----------



## castofone

MKO said:


> I agree that the calculator's suggested frame measurement is a little bit off as it does not take account of your flexibility and other comfort factors. However it still could be used as a starting base for frame size fitting.
> 
> It works best if you want to compare a new bike's geo with your current bike - fill in the rider's preferred setup, then enter the new bike's geo.... it will suggest the new bike's stem length and spacer's height to keep your current bike's set up on the new bike. That's how I get a almost 'slam that stem' bike. :thumbsup:


Comparing geos works but the recommendations from body measurement are WAY off. I mean seriously misleading. Particularly with respect to the length of the bike. I think there may be an error in the arm length. If I add 10cm to my arm length the numbers (except for the top tube) fall within the realm of the possible. Even then they are pretty wrong. 
I'd better drop them a line.


----------



## Mankul

Hi all,

Just a question.

When you build up these frames from China, do you face the fork steerer race crown area, internal headset and tap the bottom bracket thread?

I believe these are areas where precision matters and some of the internal finishes of these frames are a bit 'raw'. 

Do you send to the LBS to do it or do you face them all yourself? You need expensive tools to do these.


----------



## castofone

Mine all went together without facing anything. It was fine and gave me no problems.


----------



## ericTheHalf

Z0RR0 said:


> Has anyone used any of these frames for a fixie setup?
> Can they swap out the dropouts for fork ends when ordering?


I don't think they can do that. I can't remember where I saw the post now, but someone did a fixed gear by getting a BB30 bottom bracket and a Beer Components eccentric BB. Or you could find the magic gear.


----------



## ericTheHalf

alexb618 said:


> i have ordered a track frame in the last week or so, ill put a pic and some info up once it arrives and i build/race it a bit


Hey, did you get your track bike built up yet?


----------



## rbart4506

Finally got my new FM-029 built up!

Won't get a chance to test the bike out until the spring, but hat's ok. I'll just keep racking up the mileage on my FM-028


----------



## lalahsghost

Guys, my frame broke. Not because of riding though. A giant rock came off a cliff face (Think: WARNING: FALLING ROCK signs) and cracked the non-driveside seatstay. 

I got it in 2008/9, and have had several bikes since then, but this has been the most comfortable. 

I don't know what kind of boolean keywords to find it again, all of my old sites where I was searching for this stuff four years ago are gone.

Here's the geometry table, and some pics of the frame:


----------



## ericTheHalf

ericTheHalf said:


> I don't think they can do that. I can't remember where I saw the post now, but someone did a fixed gear by getting a BB30 bottom bracket and a Beer Components eccentric BB. Or you could find the magic gear.


Found it http://forums.roadbikereview.com/4080704-post21.html


----------



## blend76

*track frames*



ericTheHalf said:


> Found it http://forums.roadbikereview.com/4080704-post21.html


That's kind of silly. It is pity there are no chinese carbon track frames around though. I'm pretty sure there would be a market for them just like there is for cheap aluminum alloy ones. Where did that Visp "Killer Whale" disappear? I thought it could have kick-started a trend.


----------



## CamW

You obviously didn't look particularly hard, lots of the manufacturers list them. Dengfu and Hongfu have a frame listed. Occasionally they do end up under the category "TT Frame" or similar.


----------



## deepakvrao

rbart4506 said:


> Finally got my new FM-029 built up!
> 
> Won't get a chance to test the bike out until the spring, but hat's ok. I'll just keep racking up the mileage on my FM-028


Did you buy that from Novofit or a Chinese site?


----------



## rbart4506

Bought it from Novofit....I race for the team...

It's more expensive then buying direct from China, but he's done all the research and stands behind the product so it's a bit more comforting for those of that are uncertain about the buy direct approach...

Still much cheaper then a name brand frame...


----------



## MTBMaven

I need a new derailleur hanger for my FM-098 and Dengfu is not returning my emails (sent an email everyday the last few days). I vaguely remember someone posting a while back about another source for hangers?

I've got an upcoming road trip and want to ride this bike.

*UPDATE:* I found derailleurhanger.com. Anyone happen to know the model number or hanger type for a FM-098?

*UPDATE 2:* I poked around on derailleurhanger.com. After looking for a while I gave up and decided to look for a hanger for my Titus Racer-X 29. Low and behold I think I found a hanger for my FM-098 on the Titus page - Hanger #96

*Update 3* I stand corrected. Derailleur Hanger got back with me and the #96 is not the correct time, #61 appears to be the correct hanger for the FM-098.

*Update 4* Derailleur #61 arrived, no good. The shape of the derailleur shape is spot on, props to DerailleurHanger.com for picking up on the shape based on a phone. Unfortunately the holes in the hanger are not threaded and the frame does not have threads. 

As it turns out I don't think my hanger is bent but rather my derailleur hanger is jacked. After closer inspection I noticed the carbon tension arm is bent and cracked. Looking for a good Black Friday sale to replace the derailleur. Sucks because it has less than 300 miles on it.


----------



## blend76

CamW said:


> You obviously didn't look particularly hard, lots of the manufacturers list them. Dengfu and Hongfu have a frame listed. Occasionally they do end up under the category "TT Frame" or similar.


Yeah,
I guess you are right about VISP killer whale being pretty much just one of these cheap time trial frames repainted and sold with a different fork. I just wish there was something bit more classy around though.


----------



## Jetmugg

I have had good success with a Hongfu FM-022 cyclocross bike, and have been quite pleased with 2 different sets of wheels I have bought from Chinese vendors (Yishun and Farsports).

I've read through most of this thread, but not every single post, as I'm kind of "hit and miss" on the message board. There is plenty of coverage of the Chinese road frames, but not much on the MTB's.

Now I'm in the mood for a 29'er Single Speed MTB. I haven't seen any SS-specific MTB 29'er frames offered by the Chinese suppliers. Can anyone recommend a SS (or geared) carbon 29'er frame, or even better, anyone offering complete MTB builds based on Chinese framesets?

Steve.


----------



## hcarreathers

MTBMaven said:


> I need a new derailleur hanger for my FM-098 and Dengfu is not returning my emails (sent an email everyday the last few days). I vaguely remember someone posting a while back about another source for hangers?
> 
> I've got an upcoming road trip and want to ride this bike.
> 
> *UPDATE:* I found derailleurhanger.com. Anyone happen to know the model number or hanger type for a FM-098?


If you take a picture of both sides of the hanger and email it to them they will help you figure out what you need. I used them this summer and I was really happy with their service. Very quick reply on what hanger to order. :thumbsup:


----------



## MTBMaven

Thank you hcarreathers! Great idea. Much faster than waiting for a hanger to be shipped from China.


----------



## ericTheHalf

blend76 said:


> Yeah,
> I guess you are right about VISP killer whale being pretty much just one of these cheap time trial frames repainted and sold with a different fork. I just wish there was something bit more classy around though.


There are some others linked to in this post. Sorry to refer you back to the original post, but I'm having no luck at all copy&pasting with my mobile device.

-eric


----------



## beij

Jetmugg said:


> I have had good success with a Hongfu FM-022 cyclocross bike, and have been quite pleased with 2 different sets of wheels I have bought from Chinese vendors (Yishun and Farsports).
> 
> I've read through most of this thread, but not every single post, as I'm kind of "hit and miss" on the message board. There is plenty of coverage of the Chinese road frames, but not much on the MTB's.
> 
> Now I'm in the mood for a 29'er Single Speed MTB. I haven't seen any SS-specific MTB 29'er frames offered by the Chinese suppliers. Can anyone recommend a SS (or geared) carbon 29'er frame, or even better, anyone offering complete MTB builds based on Chinese framesets?
> 
> Steve.


Chinese Carbon 29er - Mtbr Forums
165 pages covering everything from geared to single speed builds, happy reading!


----------



## Zoan

if youm still didnt find try looking at Derailleur hanger, Mech hanger, Dropout bicycle, Gear hanger, Bash guard - Pilo CNC 
they have derailleur hangers for all brands and kinds


----------



## cyclingvet

rbart4506 said:


> Finally got my new FM-029 built up!
> 
> Won't get a chance to test the bike out until the spring, but hat's ok. I'll just keep racking up the mileage on my FM-028


I've just received my own FM 029 from China today. How have you routed the front derailleur cable, since there is no way of screwing a cable guide to the bottom bracket. It would appear that one would use a short piece of outer cable casing under the bottom bracket slotted into the cable stops on the bottom of the downtube and at the rear of the bottom bracket. Is that what you have done?


----------



## pete2528ca

I just got my first carbon frame. I ordered a FM001 frame and fork and was pleasantly surprised. It is from HongFu. Jane was very pleasant to deal with. Frame was $451 landed in Canada with a Neco headset and seat post clamp. 

View attachment 268869

View attachment 268870

View attachment 268871

View attachment 268872

View attachment 268873

View attachment 268874

View attachment 268875

View attachment 268876


Passed QC awesome
View attachment 268877


View attachment 268878

View attachment 268879

View attachment 268880


Asymmetric. 
View attachment 268881


I am going to build her up with Campagnolo Veloce and Campagnolo Khamsin wheels. 

I ride a 50cc Ridley Crossbow and X-Ride with a 530mm top tube. My Colnago C-40 is a 54ct with a 540mm top tube. I find the Ridley(s) much more comfortable as I need a 80mm stem on the Colnago and use a 100mm on the Ridley. 

Anywhoo the HongFu is a 50ct with a 525mm top tube. The head tube is 125mm which is the same height as the C40. 

I figure it'll work better than the 52ct with a 540mm top tube. 

My buddy from the LBS suggested I order 4cm shorter than the C40 with the sloping.


----------



## Donn2ie

I talked to them all the time with the Alibaba Chat tool (remember time difference)


----------



## pete2528ca

Oh and only one issue. The rear wheel doesn't centre properly. So I made a small aluminum shim to fit in the non drive side dropout.


----------



## Elpimpo

leerac said:


> so is it safe for my fat ass to ride a unbranded cf?


nope!


----------



## stevepeter83

Hi guys I just bought a Chinarello frame from this website 2013 model Completely Asymmetrical Pinarello Dogma 65.1 DI2 Think2 850 orange Carbon Bicycle Frame+fork+seatpost+clamp+headset-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com.

And I also bought the carbon wheels from them check this out:
Wholesale Product Snapshot Product name is 2012 lightest of the pinarello most naked / yellow clincher full carbon 3k/12k wheels / Wheelset 38mm include hubs

They should arrive in few days time as I've ordered them about few weeks ago. I'm going to put SRAM Red on it.

Once all setup I'll write a review about it. I'm quiet excited about it


----------



## YamaDan

pete2528ca said:


> Oh and only one issue. The rear wheel doesn't centre properly. So I made a small aluminum shim to fit in the non drive side dropout.


Shim will wear out, use a file. Common thing with all frames. could be a bit of paint too.. Round file in the low dropout. Take it slow.


----------



## ChevyDK

I am looking forward to your experience/findings with the frame and wheelset.


----------



## gemesif

stevepeter83 said:


> Hi guys I just bought a Chinarello frame from this website 2013 model Completely Asymmetrical Pinarello Dogma 65.1 DI2 Think2 850 orange Carbon Bicycle Frame+fork+seatpost+clamp+headset-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com.
> 
> And I also bought the carbon wheels from them check this out:
> Wholesale Product Snapshot Product name is 2012 lightest of the pinarello most naked / yellow clincher full carbon 3k/12k wheels / Wheelset 38mm include hubs
> 
> They should arrive in few days time as I've ordered them about few weeks ago. I'm going to put SRAM Red on it.
> 
> Once all setup I'll write a review about it. I'm quiet excited about it


I am waiting for your review! :thumbsup:


----------



## YamaDan

stevepeter83 said:


> Hi guys I just bought a Chinarello frame from this website 2013 model Completely Asymmetrical Pinarello Dogma 65.1 DI2 Think2 850 orange Carbon Bicycle Frame+fork+seatpost+clamp+headset-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com.
> 
> And I also bought the carbon wheels from them check this out:
> Wholesale Product Snapshot Product name is 2012 lightest of the pinarello most naked / yellow clincher full carbon 3k/12k wheels / Wheelset 38mm include hubs
> 
> They should arrive in few days time as I've ordered them about few weeks ago. I'm going to put SRAM Red on it.
> 
> Once all setup I'll write a review about it. I'm quiet excited about it


Becareful posting about this bike, I got one as well, posted up a build/review, and it was promptly taken down. There's a few guys in the Pinarello forum that are, how should I say this, overly protective of "Pinarello brand bikes." 

I think you'll be very impressed with the frame.


----------



## ChevyDK

I have seen a few of these frames and they seem very nice indeed.


----------



## blairellis

stevepeter83 said:


> Hi guys I just bought a Chinarello frame from this website 2013 model Completely Asymmetrical Pinarello Dogma 65.1 DI2 Think2 850 orange Carbon Bicycle Frame+fork+seatpost+clamp+headset-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com.
> 
> And I also bought the carbon wheels from them check this out:
> Wholesale Product Snapshot Product name is 2012 lightest of the pinarello most naked / yellow clincher full carbon 3k/12k wheels / Wheelset 38mm include hubs
> 
> They should arrive in few days time as I've ordered them about few weeks ago. I'm going to put SRAM Red on it.
> 
> Once all setup I'll write a review about it. I'm quiet excited about it


Subscribing for updates to this! Excited to see how it turns out!


----------



## pete2528ca

Another build picture:

View attachment 268919


----------



## rbart4506

cyclingvet said:


> I've just received my own FM 029 from China today. How have you routed the front derailleur cable, since there is no way of screwing a cable guide to the bottom bracket. It would appear that one would use a short piece of outer cable casing under the bottom bracket slotted into the cable stops on the bottom of the downtube and at the rear of the bottom bracket. Is that what you have done?


Yup that's how I did it...Shortest piece I could get so the housing was maybe 10mm off the BB shell...


----------



## hcarreathers

lalahsghost said:


> Guys, my frame broke. Not because of riding though. A giant rock came off a cliff face (Think: WARNING: FALLING ROCK signs) and cracked the non-driveside seatstay.
> 
> I got it in 2008/9, and have had several bikes since then, but this has been the most comfortable.
> 
> I don't know what kind of boolean keywords to find it again, all of my old sites where I was searching for this stuff four years ago are gone.
> 
> Here's the geometry table, and some pics of the frame:


It looks like this one??
Aliexpress.com : Buy 2011 Brand New Full Carbon 12K 700C Road Frame SIZE : 52cm from Reliable frame suppliers on HK Flyxii Co., Limited


----------



## Cycloslalomeur

PauliG said:


> Thanks for the info. This is interesting and also strange. An EORI is just a customs procedure to streamline imports and gather data. Having one does not alter the quota of 300 per month or the rate payable over this, so how should not having one, or not being able to get one, mean you pay a higher penal rate of duty. That cant be fair. Not arguing with you Dadude, Customs can be very unfair in the treatment of people acting as end users versus importers with licences and freight handlers etc.
> Paying the 48% anti dumping plus 4.7% plus 23% VAT on the whole lot make importing a painted one into Europe uneconomic. So I guess I have to get an EORI or order an unpainted one. I wonder if in the eyes of customs does a matt finish count as paint?


I can confirm that Belgian customs charge anti-dumping duty on finished frames regardless of the quantity in addition to the standard parts duty and VAT as well as a massive fine for an underdeclared parcel. In my case the total duties, tax, fine and administration fees came to about 650 euros for a 750-dollar parcel. Not funny.

I've now seen this 300 framesets a month exemption claim floated twice. Where does it come from? I'd love to see a link to an actual EU regulation that mentions it. If no one can find one it is just another interweb myth.


----------



## ChevyDK

Ughhhh... Thats not funny!


----------



## wiRIDEfast

Cycloslalomeur said:


> I can confirm that Belgian customs charge anti-dumping duty on finished frames regardless of the quantity in addition to the standard parts duty and VAT as well as a massive fine for an underdeclared parcel. In my case the total duties, tax, fine and administration fees came to about 650 euros for a 750-dollar parcel. Not funny.
> 
> I've now seen this 300 framesets a month exemption claim floated twice. Where does it come from? I'd love to see a link to an actual EU regulation that mentions it. If no one can find one it is just another interweb myth.


A friend of mine found this out when he got for his first frame. The second he had sent to me and paid for me to ship it to him. They didnt charge anything when I shipped it to him from the U.S. It still came out to be cheaper than buying a name brand frame.


----------



## kbfore

blairellis said:


> Subscribing for updates to this! Excited to see how it turns out!


I have been ripped off by Alibaba, I hope the express is better for you.


----------



## gemesif

*Frame geometry*

I'm sorry for the the rear wheel centre problem.
How can such...


----------



## antihero77

stevepeter83 said:


> Hi guys I just bought a Chinarello frame from this website 2013 model Completely Asymmetrical Pinarello Dogma 65.1 DI2 Think2 850 orange Carbon Bicycle Frame+fork+seatpost+clamp+headset-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com.
> 
> And I also bought the carbon wheels from them check this out:
> Wholesale Product Snapshot Product name is 2012 lightest of the pinarello most naked / yellow clincher full carbon 3k/12k wheels / Wheelset 38mm include hubs
> 
> They should arrive in few days time as I've ordered them about few weeks ago. I'm going to put SRAM Red on it.
> 
> Once all setup I'll write a review about it. I'm quiet excited about it



will you be able to compare it to the real thing?


----------



## Enders13

stevepeter83 said:


> Hi guys I just bought a Chinarello frame from this websitel]2013 model Completely Asymmetrical Pinarello Dogma 65.1 DI2 Think2 850 orange Carbon Bicycle Frame+fork+seatpost+clamp+headset-in Bicycle Frame from
> 
> 
> Once all setup I'll write a review about it. I'm quiet excited about it


V interested, one thing I notice is the pics on Ali Express look like the D 2. But when I go on their website the front forks look like the D1, the bit that's diff is where the brake connects, the rear of the forks are molded so it slots into the frame when straight. So I'm very interested to see your pics before I buy.


----------



## Enders13

stevepeter83 said:


> Hi guys I just bought a Chinarello frame from this website 2013 model Completely Asymmetrical Pinarello Dogma 65.1 DI2 Think2 850 orange Carbon Bicycle Frame+fork+seatpost+clamp+headset-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com[/url].


Ahhh sussed it, this is the Greatkeen RFM301, ok excellent, looking forward to seeing your pics.


----------



## MRFIXALL4

stevepeter83 said:


> Hi guys I just bought a Chinarello frame from this website 2013 model Completely Asymmetrical Pinarello Dogma 65.1 DI2 Think2 850 orange Carbon Bicycle Frame+fork+seatpost+clamp+headset-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com.
> 
> And I also bought the carbon wheels from them check this out:
> Wholesale Product Snapshot Product name is 2012 lightest of the pinarello most naked / yellow clincher full carbon 3k/12k wheels / Wheelset 38mm include hubs
> 
> They should arrive in few days time as I've ordered them about few weeks ago. I'm going to put SRAM Red on it.
> 
> Once all setup I'll write a review about it. I'm quiet excited about it


I purchased my Pinarello copy from GreatKeen about a year ago. I won't go into all the details about how I finished the bike but I will say it will probably be one of the best bikes you ever rode. I have had alot of bikes and I do like this one the best. So much I would buy another.


----------



## castofone

YamaDan said:


> Becareful posting about this bike, I got one as well, posted up a build/review, and it was promptly taken down. There's a few guys in the Pinarello forum that are, how should I say this, overly protective of "Pinarello brand bikes."
> 
> I think you'll be very impressed with the frame.


"Overly protective of Pinarello"? They are illegal forgeries. This forum doesn't want to be seen as a den of criminality.


----------



## squirrelflip21

stevepeter83 said:


> Hi guys I just bought a Chinarello frame from this website 2013 model Completely Asymmetrical Pinarello Dogma 65.1 DI2 Think2 850 orange Carbon Bicycle Frame+fork+seatpost+clamp+headset-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com.
> 
> And I also bought the carbon wheels from them check this out:
> Wholesale Product Snapshot Product name is 2012 lightest of the pinarello most naked / yellow clincher full carbon 3k/12k wheels / Wheelset 38mm include hubs
> 
> They should arrive in few days time as I've ordered them about few weeks ago. I'm going to put SRAM Red on it.
> 
> Once all setup I'll write a review about it. I'm quiet excited about it


You can also copy your review on the VB forum as it will be good reference and they shouldn't take the post down there.


----------



## YamaDan

castofone said:


> "Overly protective of Pinarello"? They are illegal forgeries. This forum doesn't want to be seen as a den of criminality.


Thanks for the neg rep.. 

Like I said..There are some.. :nonod:


----------



## stevepeter83

antihero77 said:


> will you be able to compare it to the real thing?


Well, the price of the real thing is AUD$6500 just for the frame! I can get a discount and buy it for AUD$6000 (doesn't really make a difference in terms of my buying power anyway).

The one I bought from Ali was USD$615 so it's like 1/10th of the price. Total cost after handle bars and other bits and pieces (including SRAM Red) + installation = AUD$3K. The weight of the frame + fork (if the one from Ali is accurate) is not far off from the real thing.

Like I said earlier, I'm still waiting for the frame and wheels to come. It should be soon I think. They only have 1 day left to ship otherwise Ali automatically cancel the order. 

I can't compare it with the real thing unfortunately since I don't have the money but what I can compare it with is with my previous and current bikes:
- 2010 Giant TCR Advanced 1 Ultegra
- 2011 Merida Reacto 909 Dura-Ace
- 2011 Specialized Roubaix S-Works Dura-Ace

Stay tuned...it shouldn't be long. Mind you though, I'm not a fast rider (28-32kmh flats) so I can't really give the review from the perspective of a fast rider. 


Steve


----------



## mellowman

stevepeter83 said:


> Hi guys I just bought a Chinarello frame from this website 2013 model Completely Asymmetrical Pinarello Dogma 65.1 DI2 Think2 850 orange Carbon Bicycle Frame+fork+seatpost+clamp+headset-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com.
> 
> Once all setup I'll write a review about it. I'm quiet excited about it


hmm, they say made in the same factory but they use English BB vs Italian on the real Pinarello and their geometry chart doesn't match Pinarello's either. Not sure about this.


----------



## Enders13

kweenam said:


> Hi,
> Any one see the real thing with painting (not seen anyone carry in the web) - RFM301 (Greatkeen)
> Closer to Dogma 2 or dogma 65.1


I've seen the RFM201 painted to the team sky colours, v nice, only thing that's not on there is the UCI sticker. Looks the business!

just placed my order for the 301


----------



## Enders13

squirrelflip21 said:


> You can also copy your review on the VB forum as it will be good reference and they shouldn't take the post down there.


I've just ordered their think 2 replica, RFM301, will update people with my experience


----------



## Enders13

antihero77 said:


> will you be able to compare it to the real thing?


I've ordered a 53 and one of our club members has the exact same size of the real deal so will put them side by side once I've done my build, just placed an order today.


----------



## Enders13

mellowman said:


> hmm, they say made in the same factory but they use English BB vs Italian on the real Pinarello and their geometry chart doesn't match Pinarello's either. Not sure about this.


My friend just built GK's 65.1 frame and he's very happy, ok English bb so what, frame looks spot on and there are minor diff's but we went up a cat 3 climb yesterday and he's very happy. Probably not the top end carbon that Pin would demand but we're not pro riders doing 50mph descents and 200 mile stages, it works and looks nice and something you can be very happy with at a great price. I'm looking forward to receiving my Think 2 replica frame.

I'll weigh it when it arrives but I'm expecting 53 frame to be under 1kg and with forks and seat post less than 1400grams,

I'd have the graphics changed to make it obvious it's not pin but that would cost me more and I'm trying to save money not spend it


----------



## cheeky_chops

hi can somone tell me what frame this is? not sure....


----------



## Bridgey

Enders13 said:


> My friend just built GK's 65.1 frame and he's very happy, ok English bb so what, frame looks spot on and there are minor diff's but we went up a cat 3 climb yesterday and he's very happy. Probably not the top end carbon that Pin would demand but we're not pro riders doing 50mph descents and 200 mile stages, it works and looks nice and something you can be very happy with at a great price. I'm looking forward to receiving my Think 2 replica frame.
> 
> I'll weigh it when it arrives but I'm expecting 53 frame to be under 1kg and with forks and seat post less than 1400grams,
> 
> I'd have the graphics changed to make it obvious it's not pin but that would cost me more and I'm trying to save money not spend it


Hi
I'm about to order my 3rd replica Pinarello from GreatKeen. I have all mine named Chinarello Mad-Dog. If you get the decals in white it won't cost you anything as I payed the initial $40. Just got to ask for it. All my mates love my brand name. I am getting my Think 2 in Dogma 2 colours (the blue and black 621). Looks awesome. These are the colours of my 2nd Great Keen Pinarello (which I broke - my fault). and it got much more attention than any other bike I've owned. People were continuously asking me where I got it from, how much, send me the address, etc


----------



## beefa69

cheeky_chops said:


> hi can somone tell me what frame this is? not sure....


Hard to tell.. Does it have a name printed anywhere on it and maybe a model number to go with it?

Carbon Filber is def the way of the future though.


----------



## Tswifty

cheeky_chops said:


> hi can someone tell me what frame this is? not sure....
> 
> Big ass picture


Looks like their F35? Which also kind of looks like Avantis new Aero frame.


----------



## Enders13

Bridgey said:


> Hi
> I'm about to order my 3rd replica Pinarello from GreatKeen. I have all mine named Chinarello Mad-Dog. If you get the decals in white it won't cost you anything as I payed the initial $40. Just got to ask for it. All my mates love my brand name. I am getting my Think 2 in Dogma 2 colours (the blue and black 621). Looks awesome. These are the colours of my 2nd Great Keen Pinarello (which I broke - my fault). and it got much more attention than any other bike I've owned. People were continuously asking me where I got it from, how much, send me the address, etc


I would go for that but mine is a matt finish with the pinarello writing omitted to show up as polished carbon so not sure if that would work. I can imagine that they would use the lettering for masking and remove. Could ask, still waiting for confirmation of my payment through paypal, been a couple of days with no reply.


----------



## g00se

jbrookeiv said:


> I'm riding it on a 25 mile group ride Saturday morning, will report back then.


Hi,

How was the ride? I'm looking into one of these frames as an alternative to an RB005 (De Rosa R838).

Cheers


----------



## takmanjapan

I think they are made in Taiwan, not China. RTS bikes also sells the same model. Flyxii has something that looks close (FR-309 or R01) but is not an ISP model. 

Takmanjapan





beefa69 said:


> Hard to tell.. Does it have a name printed anywhere on it and maybe a model number to go with it?
> 
> Carbon Filber is def the way of the future though.


----------



## Morwa

*LTK036 opinion*

I've read through most of this thread, but there are limited reference to the LT036 frame. Any opinions? Rider weight limit?


----------



## j4son

anyone know what frame this is? 

<img src=https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/553752_3935628403486_1546284050_n.jpg>


----------



## SteveOz1

don't know but looks real sharp! checked Bailey website and nothing there looks similar...


----------



## DJT21

j4son said:


> anyone know what frame this is?
> 
> <img src=https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/553752_3935628403486_1546284050_n.jpg>


http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/FRPXNAHIMOD/planet_x_nanolight_frameset


----------



## horvatht

Looking at the AC 065 aero bike. Has anyone purchased this bike frame. It's very light and looks like the rear triangle would be very strong.


----------



## espo100583

*Which Supplier*

Hi Guys,

New to the forum so go easy on me 

I've been reading the various threads about the Chinese frames and have decided I want to get RFM301 (2013 Pina looking mould).

I've seen that Greatkeen and cyclingyong do what looks like the same frame but I've noticed the geomatry is slightly different between the 2. The cyclingyong geometry is a closer match to what I'm currently riding but I can't decide whis is the best supplier to order from or if the difference in geometry would make much of a difference (looking at a 49cm seat tube length).

I have a friend who has a couple of frames from cycling yong and each has had slight imperfections with the paint so was wondering how greatkeen hold up for quality of finish and from experiance who you would recommend.

Thanks.


----------



## Seoige

Just heads up to any guys ordering from this store ..Online Store 714036 - Small Orders Online Store, Hot Selling carbon bar end,seat clamp,ness saddle and more on Aliexpress.com Don't!! The name of the supplier ...l in all, best money I ever spent..:thumbsup:


----------



## YamaDan

You can also do a search for bad vendors on Alibaba on Google...theres quite a few listed. I had crappy luck with the last thing I ordered from Aliexpress as well. I finially did get it though.


----------



## Seoige

There are a number of these vendors that pull the same scam with an invalid tracking number. I did spot the bad vendors forum afterwards. Why waste peoples time? It's not like they are going to benefit. Now I will have to order another set of bars and then wait to recover my original purchase. Otherwise I will end up with a nice frame and no matching bars. Really do not want to go through the hassle of fitting brifters twice and more cable costs. There was not a lot on good handlebar vendors when I checked last. Guess I will have to start a new thread when I finally get mine. At least I can warn fellow cyclists to be a little more cautious.:23:

Update 4/12
Read post above self explanatory. I think with poor communication and maybe reading reading other peeps experiences has made me sceptical. I should not have been because everything I have ordered thus far from China has been 100%. There is a good benefit to the Alibaba escrow deal. When I thought I was being mucked around they were extremely helpful and articulate. It is a shame that I read that others probably in the small minority have not been so fortunate on the complaints forum. This store has made me do a rain check. If the quality is this good, I will have to check out the rest of my needs with them more closely. That company has a very high standard. Really impressed.


----------



## rydbyk

j4son said:


> anyone know what frame this is?
> 
> <img src=https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/553752_3935628403486_1546284050_n.jpg>


BAILEY is known for slapping their name on Chinese imports....wheels too from what I am told...

This does not necessarily mean their stuff is junk, just that you can prob import the item yourself and save a ton of $


----------



## dr. locktopus

Frame looks like the FM-R830-SL.


----------



## beij

rydbyk said:


> BAILEY is known for slapping their name on Chinese imports....wheels too from what I am told...
> 
> This does not necessarily mean their stuff is junk, just that you can prob import the item yourself and save a ton of $


I can't comment on their road bikes but they offer a 29er frame that weighs (claimed) 940grms for a medium frame and has modern features like short chainstays, press fit bb, Kevlar protection on the downtube. On the MTBR forum the guy from Baileys stated that it was from BEV international which is a Taiwanese company but a search of their website does not reveal this frame. I assume this is a custom order that they at least designed themselves and not from an open mould so you couldn't buy this frame directly from the manufacturer. He actually caused a bit of a backlash (me included) when he criticised the regular Chinese frames. Anyway, nice looking road frame regardless.


----------



## Seoige

The new frames are apparently T1000 as opposed to T700 so should be lighter and stronger. I did not expect you to get it so quick. I must only be a couple of weeks behind you so It looks well finished and Jerry seems a good sort. Let us know how you get on with the headset as to fit?


----------



## stevepeter83

No worries. I'll update you all with the build.


----------



## ChevyDK

Mine shipped yesterday. Hopefully it Will arrive soon.


----------



## Tswifty

Found this on Velobuild, very sleek looking bike.


----------



## Dar5yl

I talked to them all the time with the Alibaba Chat tool (remember time difference)


----------



## LC

The housing liner goes inside a tube built into the frame to keep the cable from rattling.


----------



## kbfore

Morwa said:


> I've read through most of this thread, but there are limited reference to the LT036 frame. Any opinions? Rider weight limit?


It is also called the IP039. It is for sale on velobuild. I didn't see it for sale anywhere until last month.


----------



## espo100583

Hi Guys,

I'm wanting to order an RFM301(Pina looking frame) but can't decide which is the best place to order it from. Choice is between cyclingyong and greatkeen.

I have a friend who has some frames from cyclingyong but they have some minor paint work issues so wanting to get some opinions before I place my order.

Thanks


----------



## beefa69

espo100583 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I'm wanting to order an RFM301(Pina looking frame) but can't decide which is the best place to order it from. Choice is between cyclingyong and greatkeen.
> 
> I have a friend who has some frames from cyclingyong but they have some minor paint work issues so wanting to get some opinions before I place my order.
> 
> Thanks


Check a few posts above yours... and the page before this one. If it were me there is enough info to make the choice easy


----------



## Enders13

espo100583 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I'm wanting to order an RFM301(Pina looking frame) but can't decide which is the best place to order it from. Choice is between cyclingyong and greatkeen.
> 
> I have a friend who has some frames from cyclingyong but they have some minor paint work issues so wanting to get some opinions before I place my order.
> 
> Thanks


Yep, stevepeter83 just got his, my mate has had the RFM201 and I ordered my RFM301 11 days ago so Greatkeen is the one without any experience of the other one. I read on here that greatkean is Dengfu where I was originally going to order from before I saw my mates, wierdly dengfu didn't have the latest dogma on their site.


----------



## ms6073

Enders13 said:


> I read on here that greatkean is Dengfu where I was originally going to order from before I saw my mates, wierdly dengfu didn't have the latest dogma on their site.


I am pretty sure Dengfu is both a manufacturer and trading company and were as GreatKeen is simply a trading company/wholesaler.


----------



## AnthonyL88

ms6073 said:


> I am pretty sure Dengfu is both a manufacturer and trading company and were as GreatKeen is simply a trading company/wholesaler.


People should stop buying counterfeit frames and supporting the criminals.


----------



## hcarreathers

AnthonyL88 said:


> People should stop buying counterfeit frames and supporting the criminals.


Here we go again....


----------



## mhudgens

AnthonyL88 said:


> People should stop buying counterfeit frames and supporting the criminals.


Funny thing is you probably didn't realize that embrocation cream you bought from ebay was Mentholatum rub. 

People here mostly buy for personal use and not to sell as counterfeit. It only takes a couple minutes to read a few posts that have pics to see people either put their own name or nothing on their bikes they order legally from A manufacture.


----------



## Seoige

mhudgens said:


> Funny thing is you probably didn't realize that embrocation cream you bought from ebay was Mentholatum rub.
> 
> People here mostly buy for personal use and not to sell as counterfeit. It only takes a couple minutes to read a few posts that have pics to see people either put their own name or nothing on their bikes they order legally from A manufacture.


If Anthony L88 ( probably a Pina employee) has nothing to contribute to this thread then he should keep his opinions to himself. An individual can spend his hard earned cash however he pleases. One starts losing perspective when you start spending $6000 on a bike frame. I am sure there are subtle difference in the design of the frame to make it a replica and not a counterfeit, head tube lengths etc. Pinas own frames are manufactured in China and no doubt not costing them much more then $600 to make. They argue about quality assurance protocols being in place but then so do most manufacturers. However, they seem to ignore the health and safety aspects of their employees at the painting booths in China. Paint spraying without the aid of masks.(You Tube) ::blush2: Maybe their standards are slipping.

I wish the Pina police would simply stop spoiling this thread and frack off!


----------



## Bremerradkurier

Poorfellow, in the same font, would be a great name for a knockoff replica frame.


----------



## gemesif

AnthonyL88 said:


> People should stop buying counterfeit frames and supporting the criminals.


I think the use of names (Pinarello. ..) fraud. On the other hand it is correct...!


----------



## kbfore

I started to get a fraud Pinarello, but started thinking about the group rides at the shop where I live. The shop sells Pinarello frames and I started thinking would I lie and say I got it there? Would I tell the truth if asked about it by the people who work there? I chickened out and bought a IP039/LTK039 with no paint. Marco has helped me design some stickers and I will probably appreciate the frame more.


----------



## .je

I have trouble believing that the Pinarello company doesn't do anything to stop their brand and their intellectual property being counterfeited recklessly and blatantly. They must get something out of this deal, like promotion, or maybe you can guess? I can't.


----------



## Coolhand

*Moderators Note*

Don't like these frames? Then stay out of the thread.

Got a counterfeit labeled frame or direct links to counterfeits, don't post the images or links please. Let's help keep this thread open for everyone. 

Infractions for either conduct going forward.


----------



## Enders13

*Counterfeit...*

I believe that pretty much all contributors to this forum are not buying and selling frames for profit and pretending these frames are legitimate. With that over riding factor, people buying a carbon frame for sub £500 are not in the market for a £3000 + bike. So, they go to China direct and buy a frame that they can afford and it so happens that they have a choice of styles, some are replicating those of much more expensive products. While the likes of Pinerello, Cervelo etc have invested in R&D for their frames, the resulting expensive product is sold to those that can afford it along with the guarantee of quality and branding that comes with it. These brands are not loosing out on sales as these replicas are not purchased in substitution (and again I hope not sold as the real thing which is indeed a criminal act). Indeed it's a compliment to the brands that they are producing a desirable product if someone is willing to invest in attempting to replicate and as far as I can see this does not go to "cheapen" the product. With replication comes the drive to further develop products to push on exclusivity which also has a bi-product of further innovation.:thumbsup:


----------



## stevepeter83

AnthonyL88 said:


> People should stop buying counterfeit frames and supporting the criminals.


Mate if I have the money believe me, I would buy the real thing! In fact, it has been my dream to own a real Trek Madone 7 and Pinarello Dogma.

Btw everyone, FYI, I have dropped off all the stuff on Saturday (2 days ago) to a local LBS to get the bike built. The owner said it's going to take few days so I would expect in these 1-2 days for my bike to be fully ready.

Stay tuned, I'll write another article on my blog to report its performance.

In the meantime, if you haven't had a chance to read my blog, I've written an article on unboxing the Chinarello frame. Here is the link:

My Cycling Journal: Chinarello Build Part 1 - Unboxing


----------



## ms6073

AnthonyL88 said:


> ms6073 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am pretty sure Dengfu is both a manufacturer and trading company were as GreatKeen is simply a trading company/wholesaler.
> 
> 
> 
> People should stop buying counterfeit frames and supporting the criminals.
Click to expand...

Of the 4-framesets we own that were obtained directly from Dengfu - two time trial/triathlon and two disc brake cyclocross, none are copies, all are original designs, all are open mold, and all were painted by and logo'd as 'Dengfu' thank you very much!


----------



## blairellis

Enders13 said:


> I believe that pretty much all contributors to this forum are not buying and selling frames for profit and pretending these frames are legitimate. With that over riding factor, people buying a carbon frame for sub £500 are not in the market for a £3000 + bike. So, they go to China direct and buy a frame that they can afford and it so happens that they have a choice of styles, some are replicating those of much more expensive products. While the likes of Pinerello, Cervelo etc have invested in R&D for their frames, the resulting expensive product is sold to those that can afford it along with the guarantee of quality and branding that comes with it. These brands are not loosing out on sales as these replicas are not purchased in substitution (and again I hope not sold as the real thing which is indeed a criminal act). Indeed it's a compliment to the brands that they are producing a desirable product if someone is willing to invest in attempting to replicate and as far as I can see this does not go to "cheapen" the product. With replication comes the drive to further develop products to push on exclusivity which also has a bi-product of further innovation.:thumbsup:


Well said! This man here understands economics! (Qualification to say above statement: That's coming from a college kid getting A's in his Economics/Finance double major).


----------



## uffy

*Where to buy Chinese carbon in China. Shanghai or Guang Zhou?*

I am going to be in Shanghai and Gunang Zhou later this year. Are there any shops from which I could see and purchase Chinese carbon frames, wheels, etc? Similar to the ones discussed in the "Chinese Carbon Thread." The factories are a little too far from the city to visit.

I will make other shipping arrangements. Just looking to purchase in either city.


----------



## greenjt

*Question about hardware/saddle clamp*

My TT frame comes with an aero seat mast as seen in the pic. I have 2 of them and on both i cannot seem to get the clamp tight enough to stop the saddle from coming loose and moving around without stripping the allen nut. Am i doing something wrong, is the hardware that comes with these frames cheaply made, or is there some other issue going on? Thnx.

EDIT: mounting a Fizik Arione Tri2 (if it matters)

EDIT: PSA.... for $20 i replaced the saddle clamp with one from a Trek Madone and it fits perfectly. The parts themselves are significantly better quality and WELL worth the extra $20.


----------



## maxxevv

Get some carbon mounting paste:










It will alleviate the symptoms, and with some luck, may completely solve your issues.


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

Is the sadle moving around in the clamp or is it the clamp that moves around on de seatpost?


----------



## greenjt

The actual problem i have is the allen head on the shoulder bolt is shallow, not very well made, and appears to be softer metal than you would typically expect on a bold that needs pretty good tourque. So the allen wrench has stripped both bolts that i have and now i can't tighten it enough to ride without the saddle moving. I had already tried the carbon paste but i am convinced at this point the bolts are shot. 

I went down to the trek store as the madone clamp is similar. It appears that it will work so ordered one for $20. The downside is i can't get it until later Wednesday. I am hoping this solves my problem.


----------



## Mankul

Hi all,

I was just wondering, for most of the carbon road bikes here, there is no brake caliper bosses, but just painted carbon. If you were to install the brake caliper, the edged washer will eat into the painted carbon. What do you guys do to remedy this problem?

FYI, I'm using RFM201.

I've attached a picture of an orbea frame with proper brake bosses which is made of aluminium so that the edged teeth of the brake calipers can eat into this instead.









https://www.dropbox.com/s/0y6zixhfdm5bcmn/brake boss.jpg


----------



## Mankul

Mankul said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I was just wondering, for most of the carbon road bikes here, there is no brake caliper bosses, but just painted carbon. If you were to install the brake caliper, the edged washer will eat into the painted carbon. What do you guys do to remedy this problem?
> 
> FYI, I'm using RFM201.
> 
> I've attached a picture of an orbea frame with proper brake bosses which is made of aluminium so that the edged teeth of the brake calipers can eat into this instead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0y6zixhfdm5bcmn/brake boss.jpg


I was thinking whether this would work.

Get an aluminium M5 washer(the brake caliper bolt are M5 right?!) and epoxy it to the fork or frame. I wouldn't bother to sand the paint and clear coat off, too lazy and it will end up with a messy finish.

Then use the serrated washer with the brake calipers as usual.

In this way, the serrated washer will eat into the epoxied aluminium washer and prevent the brake calipers from rotating.

Any comments?


----------



## geoff56

I bought an FM-028 from Dengfu about a year ago. Recently a crack has appeared on the drive side seat stay - a picture is at imageshack.us/photo/my-images/849/p1020067o.jpg

I emailed Dengfu and they've replied



> Nice day!!
> 
> about the line on the frame,it is not carbon crack, it is the connection place,due to the glue hasn't flat,so it will be has a line after you ride long time.but it is not influence the quality.we have some customer show me about this point,but they keep ride.there has no problem for it.
> you can send it back to us,then we can repair it for you if you worry about it .


Not sure what "the glue hasn't flat" means. 

My question here is whether someone else with an unpainted version of this frame can confirm that this is where the seat stay is joined to the chain stay, also whether anyone has a view on their opinion that it's not a problem


----------



## ericTheHalf

geoff56 said:


> I bought an FM-028 from Dengfu about a year ago. Recently a crack has appeared on the drive side seat stay - a picture is at imageshack.us/photo/my-images/849/p1020067o.jpg
> 
> I emailed Dengfu and they've replied
> 
> Not sure what "the glue hasn't flat" means.
> 
> My question here is whether someone else with an unpainted version of this frame can confirm that this is where the seat stay is joined to the chain stay, also whether anyone has a view on their opinion that it's not a problem


Mine is unpainted but they appear to have painted those areas black. Probably to cover the imperfections. If I get the light just right, I see what could be the joint. Take a close look at your non drive side and see if there is anything in the corresponding location.
I have had my 028 for a little over a year and don't see anything that looks like a crack.


----------



## Doomedofthedead

I would never again go near a Chinese carbon manufacturer; LEAST of all through Alibaba. If you check out AliExpress Facebook page, its a littany of people demanding to know where their goods are, where their refunds are, and if you sift through them, people who have had their carbon bikes break while riding.
I took 3 carbon frames from Xiamen Yishun, through AliExpress. The first was so badly manufactured that it didnt steer, the breaks couldnt be fitted, and the one piece carbon stem and bar set wouldnt tighten. This piece of crap was sent back, to be replaced with a frame which snapped in under an hour.
Emails to Yishun after that met with abuse and anger. Presumably for being stupid enough to buy from them in the first place. Now carbon frames from real manufacturers are comming down in price, there is no longer a need to throw your money down the toilet on cheap Chinese junk. Face it, they bloody hate us and revel in a chance to take us for a ride - if only financially.
I hate to think what wheels from China are like. At least when a frame splits, you have enough warning to stop yourself falling under traffic.


----------



## Doomedofthedead

roscoe said:


> at that price point you're paying a lot for a no-name frame
> 
> the base CF specicalized bikes, or neuvation, or many other options from real bike makers are available in that price range


The dude is right; get a proper frame from established manufacturers. Ask yourself this - if a bike breaks and you die, who is legally liable?
If your ghost could take the manufacturers to court, do you think some shady factory in the suburbs of southern China would ever be made to make restitution?


----------



## Doomedofthedead

nealric said:


> Yeah, except those base Specialized frames probably weigh twice as much. Plus, a lot of people buy the Chinese fames precisely because they are not plastered with brand names.


And a lot of people then find their unbranded frames snap suddenly, which can be a little painfull. Also very difficult to claim a guarentee.
Simple. There is a reason for R&D and applyable US/EU and UK safety standards.


----------



## Doomedofthedead

*Yishun, AliExpress, Carbon failures and Death*

OK I see a lot of chat here about whether or not its worth a try; testing out the cheaper carbon goods from China. Now the price of carbon frames and wheels are coming down from legitimate manufacturers, why even bother?

I purchased in actual fact, 4 items; From Carbon Zone a TT frame which was awesome.

I then made the mistake of buying from Yishun through AliExpress.
The stuff isnt that cheap - I just liked the frame FM 032.
I got two - first had badly made head tube and wouldnt steer. Stiff and loose points while the Steerer tube and head set grinded against the alloy bearing races. Basically it was a reject frame and was dead on arrival. (Of course you cant see this with the eye so when you accept the frame from the courier, thats where your rights end).
The back up frame had an ISP which snapped on its first ride. Less than one hour.
As I was sponsored to race I had the piece of crap fixed by an expensive carbon engineer. 
I raced on it some more, things like the bottle bosses on both frames popped out easily and the recesses to fit the brakes had to be filed down to get the brakes to fit on.
Eventually as they had sent me 2 duff frames, they agreed to swap one frame.
I sent the non steering frame back and recieved a third dead frame. This time a Non ISP, only theyd drilled the bloody seat clamp bolt off centre and therefore could not get a saddle onto it. So thats a road frame, for $600 which you have to stand up on, or sit on a seat post. Nice!
To the last request for a refund, Yishun `Danny' berated me, accusing me of lying, and daring me to complain to AliExpress. "Come on, I play with you"
Nice touch.
So that was 3 factory reject frames sold as new frames; a complimentary insult, plus about 5 missed races, and build/repair bills of £350. 
And they sell Wheels! Hell, Ive learned enough from this trade with one Chinese carbon factory to know my life is definately worth an extra £300!
When the seat came off my second bike I just managed to hop off the road and out of the traffic after my weight suddenly shifted backwards.
Is it worth a try? Russian Roulette is much more elegant and with the money you'll save, if you survive, you could go buy yourself a proper bike!
Avoid like herpese -


----------



## Doomedofthedead

Check out the mechanics report = all 3 frames. 

the bike warehouse
53-55 high street
sevenoaks
kent
tn15 6rl


Hi there, in regards to the faulty yisun carbon frames. The first frame we assembled had an issue with the head tube not being correctly manufactured, this resulted in the steering having tight and loose spots, as the frame was binding on the headset. we did state to the customer that it wasnt safe to ride as we felt the overall quality of the frame was not up to a safe standard. also on the customers first ride the bottle cage bosses snapped .
Then after the replacment frame had , had the seat post trimmed down by a different shop we examined the cut and were happy in our opinion that it was ok. but this lasted less than an hour before the carbon delaminated. so the customer had it repaired by carbonology at a cost of £200, and they were sure the delamination was not a result of the seat post being cut. 
The third frame then had an issue with the seat clamp bolt not being manufactured correctly resulting in the treads being under more load than needed. and making it very difficlut to adjust the saddle angle, and again the bottle cage bosses have broken again.
we would say in our opinion that non of the yisun frame supplyed are safe to ride. 

many thanks 

chris (assistant manager)


----------



## geoff56

umm, sorry, didn't mean to set the ranters off. I think anyone who gets this far down the thread is aware of the pros and cons 

all frames, made by whoever in wherever, from whatever and at any price point, can have problems. My first BMC was warrantied for a cracked seat stay. It's not them, it's me - at 90kg I'm too fat

Thanks erictheHalf for answering my question


----------



## rbart4506

Wow...Nice posts 

Two FM028s here and 2 FM029s...The 28s have been going strong for a season, not one issue! Damn fine frame for the cost, prefer it over my Tarmac Expert...Take that!

29s have just been built and look fantastic and will ride just as well!

BTW, crashed my 28 about 6wks ago and guess what, it didn't asplode 

You bought crap and it sucked...Go to a reputable Chinese manufacturer and you get good stuff, period!


----------



## stevepeter83

stevepeter83 said:


> Mate if I have the money believe me, I would buy the real thing! In fact, it has been my dream to own a real Trek Madone 7 and Pinarello Dogma.
> 
> Btw everyone, FYI, I have dropped off all the stuff on Saturday (2 days ago) to a local LBS to get the bike built. The owner said it's going to take few days so I would expect in these 1-2 days for my bike to be fully ready.
> 
> Stay tuned, I'll write another article on my blog to report its performance.
> 
> In the meantime, if you haven't had a chance to read my blog, I've written an article on unboxing the Chinarello frame. Here is the link:
> 
> My Cycling Journal: Chinarello Build Part 1 - Unboxing




Hi all,

Just an update from me. My bike is still with LBS. I got few report items today:
- No steer spacer
- BB thread is Italian instead of English

So it will be another few days before I can take it home as LBS needs to order the Italian BB. The SRAM Red kit I bought has English BB. Other than that no other issues are found.

I'll keep you all updated.


----------



## stevepeter83

Oh and also, few people have asked me various questions.

I'll collate them all and answer them on my blog. Stay tuned.


----------



## beefa69

Doomedofthedead said:


> I think I put it a little more charm into it than you just showed. Still - you added some crap to a report on crap, so all ended well.
> And thanks anyway, but I think l'll just take my day as it comes.



There are a bajillion posts here about who to buy from and the evidence speaks louder than anything else here.
This wont help you now, but hope it helps others... do your research. 

Of all the people who have bought recently from Dengfu, Hongfu etc (me included) the bikes have turned out to be exceptionally good.

There are people, like yourself, who have bought from other companies that seem to be less reputable and ... well.. you know the story there.

It is very much a case of buyer beware, but also a few reputable companies making (so far) solid reliable frames.

Im guessing you bought your frames before you found this forum.


----------



## jackkane

these are some pretty good deals


----------



## jackkane

how much difference is there in these carbons to other carbons?


----------



## zender

jackkane said:


> how much difference is there in these carbons to other carbons?


Pretty sure they're all the same atom, same atomic weight, orbitals and all that.


----------



## CabDoctor

Anyone have any news on the updated fm-098? The fm-099 aka C0S099

It already seems to be on ebay.


----------



## Radioactive Man

kweenam said:


> Hi,
> Just got my frame on 5.12.2012 (after two week order) and build it by myself using two night work.
> 
> I am using ultegra group set (used) on it as such it will more heavy than using other group set (high end)
> 
> My comments as:-
> 1) Frame/Fork/seatpost - what you paid is what you get ! frame are light (as using T1000) but workmanship are not able to compare to real thing (outer look quick nice but if you carefully look inside the frame carbon structure is little bit rough)
> 
> 2) Painting - reasonable nice
> 
> 3) Build are quick easy but more careful on the cable routing as you need to do one cable one at each time to avoid cable crossing as I using normal cabling (Internally they do not have any cable guide)
> 
> I have not ride it yet so that I have no any comments on the bike ride


Hi what size is this and how did you fiind the fit of the wheels i.e. centred ok and seatpost i.e. easy to move up and down in seat tube?

Cheers


----------



## Seoige

Radioactive Man said:


> Hi what size is this and how did you fiind the fit of the wheels i.e. centred ok and seatpost i.e. easy to move up and down in seat tube?
> 
> Cheers


Additionally could you tell us more about the wheels tubs clincher matt gloss and where you got them The Cosmic graphics look awesome. The frame appears a little stubby, I am guessing that it is a small size. Looks well, Nothing wrong with Ultegra and the grey finish compliments the colour scheme


----------



## Seoige

I have a question for all you boffins regarding carbon clincher rims. It is well know that when braking hard on long descents there is a possibility/likelihood of de-lamination which is not the case of tubs. The associated problems with tubs is that the glue would melt and the tyre possibly come off. So my thinking was, why not fit a tubular tyre on a clincher rim and alleviate the problem of de-lamination of the side wall contributed by the clincher tyre during heat build up. Then low and behold it seems tufo do such a tyre http://www.tufonorthamerica.com/whattype.php.....of course if you do flat, you could always carry a spare folding clincher with you(pre-stretched of course) and revert back. This might prolong the life of carbon clinchers by reduced side wall forces, reduce the heat transfer and side loading of the tyre onto the side wall due to braking? Also provide the benefit of a higher tpi casing with a tubular. And no glueing involved!! Might have to secure around the valve hole with a little tape as a precaution. Any thoughts?:aureola:

There is a negative article here Review: Tufo CS3 Lite Tubular Clincher tyre | road.cc | Road cycling news, Bike reviews, Commuting, Leisure riding, Sportives and more and a more favourable review Tufo C Elite Road Tubular Clincher – Road Cycling UK I think the idea is sound for where you know you will be on descents but I would not advocate it for general riding or flat terrains. I wonder if anyone has ever tried them out?

On a different note this China man is my hero.....Chinese man creates own Lamborghini out of iron and an old van - YouTube


----------



## gte534j

*how to fix noise from internal cable routing*

I bought my MC-053 Scott foil replica from miracle trade about a year ago. I have been pleased with it except that the internal cable guides have been making this awful sound, like a lose BB or lose crank bolt. I finally figured out that it was the cable guides. So, i decided to fill the downtube and top tube with this:
Great Stuff small gap foam
Air Sealing Holes and Leaks | GREAT STUFF? Gaps & Cracks
Since i have had the bike for around a year, i figured if i broke it, no harm, i got my $600 worth. So i took off the headset and put an extension hose onto the foam spray and went and sprayed the foam in the downtube and top tube. I had some overflow, which was expected, so i cleaned it up with denatured alcohol. Put everything back and and the bike is very quiet. Its really nice now, no creaking, no noise. you can tap on the frame and hear a dull sound, like when you hit a stud in the drywall. Very different sound than my other carbon frames, so i am sure that the foam filled in the downtube and top tube. I checked the frame and no cracks or any issues. I assume it added about 50-100g, the foam is very light weight. Anyways, if anyone is having problems with noise from the internal cable routing, this is a safe way to go.
Ian


----------



## Seoige

Great Stuff small gap foam
Air Sealing Holes and Leaks | GREAT STUFF? Gaps & Cracks
checked the frame and no cracks or any issues. I assume it added about 50-100g, the foam is very light weight. Anyways, if anyone is having problems with noise from the internal cable routing, this is a safe way to go.
Ian[/QUOTE]

I would not advocate this , it is a short term measure. What happens in the future if you need to direct cables or the existing ones become worn. I think a simpler solution would be a more rigid cable housing. And maybe not bother with the plastic sleeve.


----------



## config

gte534j said:


> I bought my MC-053 Scott foil replica from miracle trade about a year ago. I have been pleased with it except that the internal cable guides have been making this awful sound, like a lose BB or lose crank bolt. I finally figured out that it was the cable guides. So, i decided to fill the downtube and top tube with this:
> Great Stuff small gap foam
> Air Sealing Holes and Leaks | GREAT STUFF? Gaps & Cracks
> Since i have had the bike for around a year, i figured if i broke it, no harm, i got my $600 worth. So i took off the headset and put an extension hose onto the foam spray and went and sprayed the foam in the downtube and top tube. I had some overflow, which was expected, so i cleaned it up with denatured alcohol. Put everything back and and the bike is very quiet. Its really nice now, no creaking, no noise. you can tap on the frame and hear a dull sound, like when you hit a stud in the drywall. Very different sound than my other carbon frames, so i am sure that the foam filled in the downtube and top tube. I checked the frame and no cracks or any issues. I assume it added about 50-100g, the foam is very light weight. Anyways, if anyone is having problems with noise from the internal cable routing, this is a safe way to go.
> Ian


I had the same problem and it was driving me crazy until I figured out what it was. I was able to minimize it a bit by repositioning the cable housing (from the handle bar) higher. We'll see how it holds up.


----------



## kweenam

Radioactive Man said:


> Hi what size is this and how did you fiind the fit of the wheels i.e. centred ok and seatpost i.e. easy to move up and down in seat tube?
> 
> Cheers


The wheel is easy and fix to the frame (my size is 46cm) the seat tube is easy to move in and out but after first I found the the seatpost is move in a little bit and it need to make it tighten.

will try it again and it not that I have to use the carbon paste.


----------



## kweenam

Seoige said:


> Additionally could you tell us more about the wheels tubs clincher matt gloss and where you got them The Cosmic graphics look awesome. The frame appears a little stubby, I am guessing that it is a small size. Looks well, Nothing wrong with Ultegra and the grey finish compliments the colour scheme


Thanks, the decal is got it from Stickers Design


----------



## gte534j

Seoige said:


> Great Stuff small gap foam
> Air Sealing Holes and Leaks | GREAT STUFF? Gaps & Cracks
> checked the frame and no cracks or any issues. I assume it added about 50-100g, the foam is very light weight. Anyways, if anyone is having problems with noise from the internal cable routing, this is a safe way to go.
> Ian


I would not advocate this , it is a short term measure. What happens in the future if you need to direct cables or the existing ones become worn. I think a simpler solution would be a more rigid cable housing. And maybe not bother with the plastic sleeve.[/QUOTE]

The bike came with cable guides already installed and glued inside the frame from the manufacturer in china. These are just guides, not cable housing. You then run the cable and end stops to the exterior of the frame, and only the cable goes through the frame in the cable housing. That was what was causing the noise, the pre-installed cable housing from the manufacturer. It would be very hard to adjust the housing as i would have to cut into the frame. This is a very permanent solution, but then again, its only a $600 frame, so if i broke it, then that would be the end of the frame. However, the noise was driving me crazy and i was considering getting rid of the frame, so for me, this worked out well. Also, if the internal cable guides failed/broke, i would be SOL eitherway as its nearly impossible to route a cable inside the frame w/ out the guides. Anyways, just wanted to point out a fix for people if they have a noise and cant seem to pin it down. Another person posted that they used foam padding like from a pillow, which he said worked well. However, that can absorb water, while the spray foam i used is a closed cell foam and will not absorb water.


----------



## Seoige

gte534j said:


> I would not advocate this , it is a short term measure. What happens in the future if you need to direct cables or the existing ones become worn. I think a simpler solution would be a more rigid cable housing. And maybe not bother with the plastic sleeve.


The bike came with cable guides already installed and glued inside the frame from the manufacturer in china. These are just guides, not cable housing. You then run the cable and end stops to the exterior of the frame, and only the cable goes through the frame in the cable housing. That was what was causing the noise, the pre-installed cable housing from the manufacturer. It would be very hard to adjust the housing as i would have to cut into the frame. This is a very permanent solution, but then again, its only a $600 frame, so if i broke it, then that would be the end of the frame. However, the noise was driving me crazy and i was considering getting rid of the frame, so for me, this worked out well. Also, if the internal cable guides failed/broke, i would be SOL eitherway as its nearly impossible to route a cable inside the frame w/ out the guides. Anyways, just wanted to point out a fix for people if they have a noise and cant seem to pin it down. Another person posted that they used foam padding like from a pillow, which he said worked well. However, that can absorb water, while the spray foam i used is a closed cell foam and will not absorb water.[/QUOTE]

I understand your installation. What I am suggesting can be seen on this video. Ridley Noah Internal Cable Routing Solution Video - Part 2 of 2 - YouTube In essence run normal cable housing through the frame which would be more rigid and epoxy the ends in. This would reduce lateral flex. Alternatively run household pvc pipe insulation(or similar) through the top tube at the headset. This is not affected by water.Also some people swear by heat shrink tubing as a liner to stop the rattle. In essence, better solution then the one proferred by you:thumbsup: $600 is a lot of money to some people!!


----------



## gte534j

Seoige said:


> The bike came with cable guides already installed and glued inside the frame from the manufacturer in china. These are just guides, not cable housing. You then run the cable and end stops to the exterior of the frame, and only the cable goes through the frame in the cable housing. That was what was causing the noise, the pre-installed cable housing from the manufacturer. It would be very hard to adjust the housing as i would have to cut into the frame. This is a very permanent solution, but then again, its only a $600 frame, so if i broke it, then that would be the end of the frame. However, the noise was driving me crazy and i was considering getting rid of the frame, so for me, this worked out well. Also, if the internal cable guides failed/broke, i would be SOL eitherway as its nearly impossible to route a cable inside the frame w/ out the guides. Anyways, just wanted to point out a fix for people if they have a noise and cant seem to pin it down. Another person posted that they used foam padding like from a pillow, which he said worked well. However, that can absorb water, while the spray foam i used is a closed cell foam and will not absorb water.


I understand your installation. What I am suggesting can be seen on this video. Ridley Noah Internal Cable Routing Solution Video - Part 2 of 2 - YouTube In essence run normal cable housing through the frame which would be more rigid and epoxy the ends in. This would reduce lateral flex. Alternatively run household pvc pipe insulation(or similar) through the top tube at the headset. This is not affected by water.Also some people swear by heat shrink tubing as a liner to stop the rattle. In essence, better solution then the one proferred by you:thumbsup: $600 is a lot of money to some people!![/QUOTE]


Thanks for posting that link, very interesting for sure and a good idea to replace the cable housing with something more flexible. The current housing i have in there is very rigid, which is probably the issue in the first place. Also, i think that you can use denatured alcohol to dissolve the foam after it has hardened, so i am not sure that its a totally permanent solution.
There are many ways to skin a cat obviously, so i was just posting my solution for whomever want to try it.
Also, what i meant to say was that the china frame was much much less costly than brand name frame. I did not mean to imply that $600 was a insignificant amount of money.


----------



## Tulok

....................................
........
.


----------



## woodrow5

kweenam said:


> Thanks, the decal is got it from Stickers Design


So when you got the decal and put it on the bike, do you need any treatment on them such as clear coat?

Thanks,


----------



## kweenam

woodrow5 said:


> So when you got the decal and put it on the bike, do you need any treatment on them such as clear coat?
> 
> Thanks,


No, it come with it. 
and buy from FLYXI


----------



## woodrow5

kweenam said:


> No, it come with it.
> and buy from FLYXI


So you send them the design file and they will do it for you?


----------



## quickbiker

rydbyk said:


> BAILEY is known for slapping their name on Chinese imports....wheels too from what I am told...
> 
> This does not necessarily mean their stuff is junk, just that you can prob import the item yourself and save a ton of $


that is a sweet looking bike. what is something like that worth?


----------



## kweenam

woodrow5 said:


> So you send them the design file and they will do it for you?


The wheel is order from flyxii and it with clear coat.

The decal is from sticker design, you may visit the website and select what you like to purchase and get quote from them and it will to paste it by yourself

Please note they are two difference company at difference location.


----------



## ChevyDK

I think he ment if the stickers are clearcoated over them, to protect them.


----------



## Andy STi

I am looking at a new cross frame that both Light-Bicycle and Miracle Bikes both sell. The PDF with the geometry charts is exactly the same. Can I assume the frame would be the same from each vendor or is there a possiblity of different carbon layups? 

Thanks


----------



## Tulok

Andy STi said:


> I am looking at a new cross frame that both Light-Bicycle and Miracle Bikes both sell. The PDF with the geometry charts is exactly the same. Can I assume the frame would be the same from each vendor or is there a possiblity of different carbon layups?
> 
> Thanks


It's almost certainly the same, but if you have questions you can email either vendor.


----------



## Tulok

even the chinese have a sense of humor:
GreatKeen Bike Sport Equipment Co.,Ltd


----------



## Seoige

Tulok said:


> even the chinese have a sense of humor:
> GreatKeen Bike Sport Equipment Co.,Ltd


Not sure what sort of impression that would give pulling up on the bike at the inlaws for xmas


----------



## mfuchs

espo100583 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I'm wanting to order an RFM301(Pina looking frame) but can't decide which is the best place to order it from. Choice is between cyclingyong and greatkeen.
> 
> I have a friend who has some frames from cyclingyong but they have some minor paint work issues so wanting to get some opinions before I place my order.
> 
> Thanks


Also look at <a href ="http://www.aliexpress.com/store/704980/">Kode Bike</a> . Great service with Ruby and good prices too. I have a "bike that shall not be shown" and I just ordered the updated rfm301 in white/black/red. Will ship next week. Great bikes and really good company to deal with.


----------



## Enders13

mfuchs said:


> Also look at <a href ="http://www.aliexpress.com/store/704980/">Kode Bike</a> . Great service with Ruby and good prices too. I have a "bike that shall not be shown" and I just ordered the updated rfm301 I nwhite/black/red. Will ship next week. Great bikes ad really good company to deal with.


Interesting, Kode likely to be another re-seller, I'm told GreatKeen is a re-seller/agent and the frames are made by Dengfu, strange that Dengfu don't have this frame on their site and the images shown on Greatkeen are slightly different to the Kode ones. For example, the Cable guide under the BB is a standard one in a specially shaped recess where as GK one is like the Pina one which is just a rectangular recess, also the front braze on bracket on Kode is a 4 rivet one like Pina but the GreatKeen one has a recess in frame but bracket is a generic 2 rivet one. Also Kode's internal cabling covers are diamond shape as apposed to oval on Greatkeen, pina ones are a mix of oval and triangular

I'm on week 3 post order, it seems the few RFM301 buyers from Greatkeen have had theirs shipped at week 3 so I'm hoping to hear something soon. Indeed when I first inquired they stated 20 days to paint. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Tulok

The RFM301 is high on my list after new years!


----------



## ms6073

Enders13 said:


> Interesting, Kode likely to be another re-seller, I'm told GreatKeen is a re-seller/agent and the frames are made by Dengfu, strange that Dengfu don't have this frame on their site and the images shown on Greatkeen are slightly different to the Kode ones.


While I have purchased several frames from Dengfu, I am of the opinion that while the company may share office space with one or more manufacturers, Dengfu itself is simply another trading company representing a number of actual manufacturers.


----------



## Enders13

ms6073 said:


> While I have purchased several frames from Dengfu, I am of the opinion that while the company may share office space with one or more manufacturers, Dengfu itself is simply another trading company representing a number of actual manufacturers.


The plot thickens, I'd love to know the identity of the real factory then!:thumbsup:


----------



## vinceflynow

What can be use to protect the frame from the front derailleur cable from damaging the frame? The FD cable exits behind the BB. The frame is a Miracle MC053 and it did not come with any cable guides at the exit of the FD cable. The hole is 2.5 mm.
View attachment 270187


----------



## spacemanrides

vinceflynow said:


> What can be use to protect the frame from the front derailleur cable from damaging the frame? The FD cable exits behind the BB. The frame is a Miracle MC053 and it did not come with any cable guides at the exit of the FD cable. The hole is 2.5 mm.
> View attachment 270187


I have had success with a piece of SIS housing cut to the appropriate size.


----------



## ms6073

So anyone have any relatively recent experience with Yishunbikes? Noticed that they are now listing a 2013 disc cross frame that I have made inquired about and recalled there were some less than satisfied folks this time last year.


----------



## horvatht

Interested in a 2013 MCipollini RB1000 Carbon MonoCoque Frame set. 
Has any one purchased this frame from china?


----------



## Boombaux

nearly 4 1/2 months since ordering the frame, but she's finally done


















Frame: DengFu FM029
Levers: Rival
FD: Force
RD: Rival
Crankset: Rival
Chain: 1091r
Seatpost: Easton EC70 0 offset
Fork: Easton EC90 SL 1.5 tapered
Bars: DengFu HB002
Wheels: Vuelta Corsa SLR (got these for $270, was a good deal)
Saddle: Cutter Blackbird
Pedals: Look KEO Classic
Tires: Conti GP4000s

i'm not sure on exact weight but bikeshop told me around 16.5

for anyone else who has one, this should be totally stable for someone 165lbs, right? haven't ridden it yet, got it this evening when it was already dark


next stop, deng fu wheels!


----------



## kbfore

horvatht said:


> Interested in a 2013 MCipollini RB1000 Carbon MonoCoque Frame set.
> Has any one purchased this frame from china?


Since he is my cycling hero I considered it until I found out they cost the same as a low end frame you may get at a shop (when ordered from China). Probably made by the same factory. His site claims they make them with a special bond (in Italy yeah right). That must be why the extra $$$ Monocoque carbon racing bikes | Cipollini


----------



## biker jk

Has anyone completed an Ultegra di2 build on a FM066 frame? Did you encounter any problems? Any photos would be much appreciated.


----------



## Bigsy

Can anyone recommend a frame which will have room for 25c tyres and slim mudguards like crud roadsracer? Prefer it not be a CX I've no need for canti mounts on my commuter.

Thanks


----------



## cansprint

Enders13 said:


> The plot thickens, I'd love to know the identity of the real factory then!:thumbsup:


Flybikes make most of the popular frames...


----------



## ChevyDK

My RFM301 deal with Greatkeenbike went flawless! Recieved the ordered parts after approx. 25 days. 
The assembly has started. 
I will be using a Shimano Ultegra Di2 group. If I encounter any problems I will report back here.


----------



## ChevyDK

Nice looking. What wheels are those and from where?
Eagerly awaiting your words on how it rides etc.


----------



## ChevyDK

Ahh. See it in your blog. I'm interestet in your experience with the wheels too.


----------



## Enders13

ChevyDK said:


> My RFM301 deal with Greatkeenbike went flawless! Recieved the ordered parts after approx. 25 days.
> The assembly has started.
> I will be using a Shimano Ultegra Di2 group. If I encounter any problems I will report back here.


It's been about 23 days since my payment was confirmed at source, they say it will ship this week and I'm in the UK so hopefully have it next week just before christmas, was your 25 days from order to receipt or to shipping?

I have a full chorus groupset, selle italia SLR carbonio and Mavic Cosmic SL's ready and waiting to go with the 301 frame in BOB colours and the FSA bar and 3T stem from great keen also. Can't wait.


----------



## ChevyDK

Enders13 said:


> It's been about 23 days since my payment was confirmed at source, they say it will ship this week and I'm in the UK so hopefully have it next week just before christmas, was your 25 days from order to receipt or to shipping?
> 
> I have a full chorus groupset, selle italia SLR carbonio and Mavic Cosmic SL's ready and waiting to go with the 301 frame in BOB colours and the FSA bar and 3T stem from great keen also. Can't wait.


From order to receipt. 
I ordered the FSA bar and 3T stem for a friend too and it looks and feels great.


----------



## Boombaux

for anyone else with FM029, did you use cable housing under the BB?









i can't imagine the cable rubbing carbon can be good for it...will housing hinder shifting at all?


----------



## MKO

Boombaux said:


> for anyone else with FM029, did you use cable housing under the BB?
> 
> i can't imagine the cable rubbing carbon can be good for it...will housing hinder shifting at all?


a appropriate length of cable housing should solve the problem. here is a photo from mathot prospekt.

View attachment 272265​


----------



## ms6073

Boombaux said:


> i can't imagine the cable rubbing carbon can be good for it...will housing hinder shifting at all?


This is not meant as a slight but the fact that you are asking this question tends to indicate you are in over your head. To answer your question, a good quality housing will not degrade shifting and will allow much easier shifting than what you will get from the bare cable as it essentially saws its way into the carbon of the bottom bracket shell.


----------



## Enders13

ChevyDK said:


> From order to receipt.
> I ordered the FSA bar and 3T stem for a friend too and it looks and feels great.


That's good to know, and I just got the tracking number last night so it's on Santa's sleigh, yesssss!

Will the FSA rep bar take tri bar clip ons? Hope so but not the end of the world if not.

Unfortunately I won't be able to put pics up on here so when I do my build I'll post a full set up on Velobuild. I know I would like to see them if I was going to make a purchase.


----------



## j4son

View attachment 272317


still a work in progress.


----------



## MikeM95831

This is my first time here, but I've been following this thread for a long time.

I'm pretty sure I'm about to order a Miracle MC001. I want a slightly more conservative bike than other frames Miracle sells; my criterium days, such as they were, are long since over. The farthest I'll ever ride is under 100 miles/day. I rode Foxy's this year, and was pleasantly surprised to be one of the faster riders that day.

How large an upgrade will this be from my LeMond Reno? Because of its AL frame, that bike tends to have a very choppy ride. I've addressed this with 28mm GP 4-Seasons; I don't think there's any way those tires will fit an MC001. I measured my chainstays at 416mm, and Miracle says the MC001 chainstays are 406. I just don't see how there'd be any room for more than a 25mm tire.

(I'm 6'2", 185 lbs, and find the ride on 23mm tires is just way too harsh... And was comforted to find that many pros are now riding 25-28mm tires in a lot of races.)

I got a quote of $479, delivered, to California. No paint, no decals, 3k finish, glossy, including binder, headset and seatpost. I think that sounds fair.

My friend has an FM015, which looks way too short for me. I like to stretch out. This MC001 is 6mm longer in the front and 10mm shorter in the rear. I don't believe I'll need a shorter stem to compensate (I use a 120mm stem now, so there is tons of room to compensate, if I need to).

Any advice? When I get the frame, I plan to take it to my LBS (Bicycle Business in Sacramento) to have them check alignment, chase threads, inspect it, etc. I'll build it myself using the parts from the LeMond (105/Ultegra/Ritchey WCS bars/Terry Fly TI seat/105 hubs-Open Pro-DT wheels).


----------



## JackDaniels

Over 6k miles this year on my fm015 many of them off-road. Still going strong.










Bonus points if you spot the unique bit on there...


----------



## horvatht

JackDaniels said:


> Over 6k miles this year on my fm015 many of them off-road. Still going strong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bonus points if you spot the unique bit on there...


How strong is the ISP?


----------



## JackDaniels

My fat ass has not been successful at breaking the seatpost yet. It's even dremmeled out to accommodate the kcnc mast (which is not the unique bit).


----------



## ericTheHalf

JackDaniels said:


> My fat ass has not been successful at breaking the seatpost yet. It's even dremmeled out to accommodate the kcnc mast (which is not the unique bit).


Your doorknob is pretty unique.


----------



## ChevyDK

The Quarg thingy?


----------



## JackDaniels

Other side of the crank, soon to replace the quarq thingy.


----------



## stevepeter833

Hi guys,

Below is my review on my Chinese frame. I've taken it to a 60km relatively-flat commute and 40km hilly ride: I compared my frame with my Roubaix S-Works SL3 2012.

========
*60km COMMUTE*
*REVIEW*
So here it is. I'm a technical IT guy so I may not be good in writing long articles but rather straight to the point.


Before I even write anything let me just summarize my initial impression for today: IT'S AMAZING! I'm not sure if I will ever buy big branded frames from this moment on. Seriously guys comparing to my Roubaix S-Works, I will choose my Chinese Frame at any day. But anyway, let me explain.


*Rolling*
Let me tell you, this bike just rolls a lot better than my Roubaix! It's a lot more stable and what's crazy about it, it cuts through yaw and headwind a lot better. At lower speed surely it feels probably the same but by the time I pushed my pedal...man.....this bike truly flies. It may be due to the wheels? Mind you my Roubaix S-Works is using Mavic R-SYS SL which has really bad wind drag.


Anyway, I rode a lot quicker today. In Perth, WA after 12PM the wind is just a lot more crazy than in the morning. In the morning wind speed is about 10-20kmh while in the afternoon it goes up to 30-35kmh. In both occasion (to and from work), I rode quicker than usual and the bike just felt so awesome.


*Accelerating*
Accelerating is definitely a lot better than my Roubaix. My Roubaix - in car turbo-diesel engine term - has this "turbo-lag". But not my Chinese Frame! If you have the legs, you push it and the bike just accelerates.


*Cornering*
A lot more confident, a lot more stable compared to my Roubaix S-Works. The bike just went to whichever direction you point it to. My Roubaix feels a bit more twitchy and less stable.


*Climbing*
Climbing also felt better on my Chinese Frame. Yes my Roubaix feels a little bit lighter but like I said, I can accelerate a lot better on my Chinese Frame. I would probably say for a really long climb your body may benefit a bit more from the Roubaix but for short few-hundred-meter climb, I will go with my Chinese Frame at any day. Again, it's the acceleration strength of the Chinese Frame that helps me climbing faster.


*Going Down Hill*
Again, my Chinese Frame felt a lot more stable than my Roubaix. My Roubaix is very twitchy. With my Roubaix I always have to hit the brakes because I'm afraid that it will skid or lose balance (although I know it won't happen - it's just that feeling of being unstable, you know).


*Standing*
Now, when standing I will choose my Roubaix. My Chinese Frame felt a bit dull when I stood and tried to push the bike. I felt that somehow my power was "consumed" and "dampened". Sitting down however, was different. Therefore, if I want to push, I will sit down instead. I'm not sure how this will work upon sprinting though?


*Comfort and Geometry*
The geometry is a racing geometry. I was a bit nervous that I would have neck or back pain after I arrived at home today since I carry ~10kg backpack (containing laptop, charger, clothes, etc). But surprisingly enough I didn't! I arrived at home as healthy as can be. Tomorrow I will be doing a 100km ride and I will find out the true comfort level of the bike. But if I speak purely from my experience today, I had no problem with my Chinese Frame.


On transferring road buzz, my Chinese Frame was only transferring a little bit more (and I literally mean: a little bit) of the road buzz compared to my Roubaix. But like I said, it was not to the point which I felt uncomfortable at any stage of the ride.


Maybe my Chinese Carbon Wheels helped?


*Groupset*
My Roubaix S-Works runs Dura-Ace 7900 and my Chinese Frame runs SRAM Red Black 2012. It was my first time using a SRAM double-shift mechanism so I still need to get myself used to? At this stage I still prefer my Dura-Ace.


I need to re-adjust the rear deraileurs I think because it missed shifts quiet many times today. The SRAM Red felt smooth but it's still brand new, so surely it's smooth. I'll report further when I'm one month into it.


*Wheels*
My Chinese Carbon Wheels just piss over my Mavic R-SYS SL. It cuts wind better, it's more stable, it's stiffer, it's more alive. What else do you need?


*CONCLUSION*
So like I mentioned earlier, I would choose my Chinese Frame at any day compared to my Roubaix. Again this is only an initial impression but it was a good one. I still remembered when I first rode my Roubaix, other than the geometry, none of it was impressive. But my Chinese Frame was different. My Strava result for today speaks for itself.


Man, I can't keep talking about it....I will keep raving about it because it's that good!


Will I ever buy big branded frames? Well if I have the money I would ....but otherwise, I won't! It's THAT GOOD! OMG...I love my new bike!
=================

*40km Hilly*
OK so finally on day 2 I decided not to do the 100km ride because it would have taken me ~5 hours which I couldn't afford due to Xmas BBQ that I have planned with friends.


So instead, I took it to a hilly ride rather. It's about 40km in total with total elevation of 539m. Most of the hills were 7-11%. I know for some of you it's nothing but for me, it almost killed me. Anyway, check out my Strava if you're using it, too:
app.strava.com/activities/33401119


*HILLY RIDE REVIEW*


One thing that I found was, for hills that were not that steep ~4-5% max, the frame was great, however as it went steeper, I could feel the "heaviness" of the frame compared to my Roubaix S-Works SL3.


As mentioned in my Part 3 article, standing up felt a bit dull therefore it made it even more challenging. The bike barely moved on a 10-11% gradient. I don't know what it would be like to take it to an even steeper gradient.


Nonetheless, I still love it. It just means that I have to train my legs more. For flat rides my Chinese frame is definitely a winner compared to my Roubaix S-Works SL3. It's more alive and fast.


----------



## twiggy

j4son said:


> View attachment 272317
> 
> 
> still a work in progress.


Looks great! Mind me asking which seller you bought from? Any sizing issues?


----------



## ChevyDK

stevepeter833 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Below is my review on my Chinese frame. I've taken it to a 60km relatively-flat commute and 40km hilly ride: I compared my frame with my Roubaix S-Works SL3 2012.
> 
> ========
> *60km COMMUTE*
> *REVIEW*
> So here it is. I'm a technical IT guy so I may not be good in writing long articles but rather straight to the point.
> 
> Etc etc etc.


What chinese bike is this?


----------



## jever98

Nice picture. Can you post some more, including the front brake cable routing?


----------



## j4son

twiggy said:


> Looks great! Mind me asking which seller you bought from? Any sizing issues?


purchased from Lucky of DengFu bikes. No sizing issues at all! although the internal routing was a total pita, it came out pretty nice


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

twiggy said:


> Looks great! Mind me asking which seller you bought from? Any sizing issues?


How do you choose stem size?


btw...wtf is wrong with this forum??? The commercials on the right side are almost as big as the actual forum. I got text, links and commercials mixed up thru one and another because the forum has more of a BLOG size than a FORUM size. :s


----------



## stevepeter833

ChevyDK said:


> What chinese bike is this?


I wouldn't mention the type otherwise I may be banned .....

It's one of the replicas of one of the big brands...I think the similar frame would be the Aero frame from Dengfubikes.com.

Just did another 40km hilly ride today with the exact same route as before and get 9 mixed achievements on Strava. Check this out:
app.strava.com/activities/33718657

It's pretty great bike ...and the wheels as well...

As mentioned I'm not sure if I would ever spend more than $3500 from this moment on....compared to the big brands' top of the range such as Specialized S-Works Roubaix SL3 and Merida Reacto 909 that I've ridden (which have cost me $8000), I still choose this one at any time of the day.

It's more alive and fun and fast....


----------



## persondude27

BlackDoggystyle said:


> How do you choose stem size?


Stem size is most easily found by comparing the geometry of your current bike to your new model. For example, in the most simplistic terms, if you have a 56.5 cm headtube now, and the other bike has a 55.5 cm headtube, you'll need a 1 cm longer headtube to get the same contact points. It's more complex than that, since you're moving in three dimensions.

Fit Calculator - Competitive Cyclist Is a good start.




BlackDoggystyle said:


> btw...wtf is wrong with this forum??? The commercials on the right side are almost as big as the actual forum. I got text, links and commercials mixed up thru one and another because the forum has more of a BLOG size than a FORUM size. :s


Sounds like you're using a very small monitor. Crank the resolution up. Looks phenomenal on a 1920x1080 screen.


----------



## jspharmd

So I'm sure the answer to my question. Is somewhere in the 117 pages on this thread, but a 117 page thread is not the most efficient to navigate for a simple question/answer. 

I'm interested in a frame from Dengfu. I've selected a frame and sent three "inquire online" messages. I have not received a response. I've tried to click on their "chat online" links with no success there either. It says Safari cannot open page because the address is invalid. If I click on the "chat online" pop up, nothing happens. I have Skype, but I've only used it once or twice before. 

Any advice on how to interact with a rep from Dengfu would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks!


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

My queston on the stem size was actually for this bike ...

View attachment 272488


This is a fixed stem... Do you have a choice or is there only one size? I don't see how you can set a perfect position with a fixed stem...


----------



## Mankul

ChevyDK said:


> My RFM301 deal with Greatkeenbike went flawless! Recieved the ordered parts after approx. 25 days.
> The assembly has started.
> I will be using a Shimano Ultegra Di2 group. If I encounter any problems I will report back here.


Any pictures to share?... or PM me the pictures 

Did you order the normal 3k weave or the 'lighter' 1k weave?

How are the cable routing for the Di2 ultegra?


----------



## mtimme

*DengFu and VeloBuild*



jspharmd said:


> So I'm sure the answer to my question. Is somewhere in the 117 pages on this thread, but a 117 page thread is not the most efficient to navigate for a simple question/answer.
> 
> I'm interested in a frame from Dengfu. I've selected a frame and sent three "inquire online" messages. I have not received a response. I've tried to click on their "chat online" links with no success there either. It says Safari cannot open page because the address is invalid. If I click on the "chat online" pop up, nothing happens. I have Skype, but I've only used it once or twice before.
> 
> Any advice on how to interact with a rep from Dengfu would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!


I bought a frame from DengFu, but I went through velobuild.com
i did a group buy. but it seems there always is a open group


----------



## anterrabae

For those that have bought an FM018 and went with the Tektro R725 for the rear brake: Did you have any issues with the tire flat out sitting on the brake body when the wheel was fully seated in the frame? This is what I'm working with:
i.imgur
.co
m/4HIqP
.jpg

EDIT: Sorry for the jacked up url, it's top to bottom and all that.


----------



## Enders13

For those interested in the RFM301 from great keen I've started a blog on my experience

Mike's blog: Intro

if this link is not allowed please take it off but I've intentionally kept my comments off this forum as it's a replica frame not one of the unique unbranded ones often chosen here.


----------



## josh pane

i'd stay away from them


----------



## ChevyDK

josh pane said:


> i'd stay away from them


Stat away from who?


----------



## ChevyDK

Mankul said:


> Any pictures to share?... or PM me the pictures
> 
> Did you order the normal 3k weave or the 'lighter' 1k weave?
> 
> How are the cable routing for the Di2 ultegra?


3k and sorry, no pictures yet. 
I haven't mounted the di2 group cables yet.


----------



## f3rg

Does anyone have the weight of an FM039 frame?

I'm currently riding an FM015-ISP, which comes in at 1.153kg w/ an uncut seat mast. Looking to go non-ISP eventually, and hopefully get a much lighter frame. I like the FM039, but can't find a weight.

*Edit:* Nevermind, I finally found it. FM039s are listed at 1,050g, which isn't much lighter than the FM015. However, the FM066 is roughly 800g, which sounds a lot better to me, assuming it's as stiff as the FM015.


----------



## jspharmd

mtimme said:


> I bought a frame from DengFu, but I went through velobuild.com
> i did a group buy. but it seems there always is a open group


Thanks!


----------



## mastakilla

*Bottom Bracket Help*

I have an ultegra group I want to put on an FM066. Is there a shimano bottom bracket that will work with BB30 frame or are the adapters needed? 

If I need adapters to run shimano cranks I may end up getting the threaded bottom bracket.


----------



## ms6073

anterrabae said:


> For those that have bought an FM018 and went with the Tektro R725 for the rear brake: Did you have any issues with the tire flat out sitting on the brake body when the wheel was fully seated in the frame? This is what I'm working with:


The Tektro R725 (on the right in the following image) is for aero forks with rear mounted brakes, you need the Tektro R725r (on the left) for under bottom bracket mounted brakes:


----------



## ericm979

mastakilla said:


> I have an ultegra group I want to put on an FM066. Is there a shimano bottom bracket that will work with BB30 frame or are the adapters needed?
> 
> If I need adapters to run shimano cranks I may end up getting the threaded bottom bracket.


You need adapters. There are three types- one is a sleeve that press fits into the BB30 shell and has internal threads for BSA format BBs. Then there are entire BBs that fit into the BB30 shell and have 24mm id bearings spaced correctly for Shimano (or more rarely, Sram) 24mm spindle cranks. And finally there are adapters that fit into the 30mm id BB30 bearings and have 24mm/22mm id and correct spacing for Shimano/Sram. 


An example of the first type: Universal Cycles -- Sram BB30 Bottom Bracket Adapter
second type: KCNC BB30 Road Adapter Bottom Bracket : Fairwheel Bikes, Cycling Boutique
third type: Wheels Manufacturing BB30-SRAM


The press fit sleeves can be difficult to remove. You'll need a press to install or remove them. The second type screw together and you need two BB cup tools. They should be easily removeable. The last type theoretically do not support the crank spindle quite as well as the bearings are inboard, but with a 24mm spindle I don't think it matters. They're the lightest solution and use the BB30 bearings which are larger than 24mm ID bearings. I'm told by shop owners that the Wheels Mfg ones work well. That's what I'm going with for the FM066sl I ordered so I can fit an Sram GXP crank I have. You do need BB30 bearing install/removal tools for that.


----------



## ms6073

ericm979 said:


> Then there are entire BBs that fit into the BB30 shell and have 24mm id bearings spaced correctly for Shimano (or more rarely, Sram) 24mm spindle cranks.


No experience with this one, but the Praxis Works BB30 bottom bracket (similar to KCNC referenced above) appears to have gained a lot of popularity for ease of use and can be easily removed should you decide to get a BB30 crankset.


----------



## horvatht

Are there any tracking web site s that work to track from China


----------



## ChevyDK

The Hong Kong post 1 I was supplied, was fine.


----------



## j4son

88's added. still havent taken her out yet, hopefully this weekend.
<br>
<br>
<img src=https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y79/j4son/CIMG1272_zps1e43df2c.jpg>


----------



## ms6073

horvatht said:


> Are there any tracking web site s that work to track from China


If shipping to the US, EMS & China Post shipments can usually be tracked via the usps.com website. Once an EMS shipment clears customs, it is expedited as USPS Express Mail and China Post shipments typically processed the same as Registered/Insured mail.


----------



## kansukee

Has anyone here dealt with lverson from dhgate? I am looking to buy a frame from him and he seems to have good feedback but it would be nice if anyone here could tell me about him..thanks!


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

j4son said:


> 88's added. still havent taken her out yet, hopefully this weekend.
> <br>
> <br>
> <img src=https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y79/j4son/CIMG1272_zps1e43df2c.jpg>


How do set position if this comes with a fix stem size???


----------



## j4son

BlackDoggystyle said:


> How do set position if this comes with a fix stem size???


position is adjusted from risers on the base bar and pad placement. so if your fit is beyond those limits, its not gonna be fun. i can snap some pics of the handlebar system if you'd like


----------



## thedrivel

*Fibertek*

Anyone familiar with Fibertek? They say they only do B2B but maybe somebody has dealt with them or knows them? 5 years Gold Supplier for what that's worth.


----------



## Seoige

horvatht said:


> Are there any tracking web site s that work to track from China


I found this one quite good

China: List of postal operators


----------



## SirVelo'

......


----------



## mfuchs

I just received my rfm301 from <a href = "http://www.aliexpress.com/store/704980/">Kode</a> Ordered on 12/11, shipped 12/22, arrived in customs in New York City on 12/24, left customs on 12/31 and arrived at my house on 1/2. So about 3 weeks from order placement to arrival and one week of that was it sitting in customs between Christmas ans New Years. I did a shot 30 mile ride yesterday and I an very happy with it. My second bike from them and still very happy with the quality and service they provide. Ruby is very helpful.


----------



## mrcreosote

blend76 said:


> That's kind of silly. It is pity there are no chinese carbon track frames around though. I'm pretty sure there would be a market for them just like there is for cheap aluminum alloy ones. Where did that Visp "Killer Whale" disappear? I thought it could have kick-started a trend.


you mean this?

Carbon Fiber Track Bicycle Frame Size 51cm with Top Tube 56cm in Stock | eBay

or this?

Carbon Track frame - Shop Cheap Carbon Track frame from China Carbon Track frame Suppliers at Shanghai Hongying Trade Co., Ltd. on Aliexpress.com

or these?

Wholesale carbon track frame - Buy Low Price carbon track frame Lots on Aliexpress.com


----------



## SirVelo'

horvatht said:


> Interested in a 2013 MCipollini RB1000 Carbon MonoCoque Frame set.
> Has any one purchased this frame from china?


I saw a MCipollini on the cyclingyoung website...looks pretty good.


----------



## vinceflynow

*Miracle MC053*

Miracle MC053 build. The goal of this build is to put together a sturdy commuting bike. I also posted a similar review of this frame, on the other site.

Parts:
Frame: Miracle MC053, 3k Matte finish, 50cm, non-ISP, BSA, including seatpost
Group set: Campagnolo Chorus 11 speed, compact crank, 12-29 cassette
Wheels: Campagnolo Shamal Ultra 2-way fit
Tires: Hutchinson Fusion 3 Tubeless
Water bottle cages: Miracle MT-MBC002
Handle Bar: Ritchey WCS Logic II 40cm
Stem: Ritchey WCS 260 100mm
Saddle: Selle Italia SLR Flow
Pedals: Shimano Ultregra Carbon (its what I had and I prefer it over other pedals)
Decals: Vinyl decals from doityourselflettering (dot) com
Miscellaneous: K-Edge Garmin mount, KCNC Chain catcher, mini pump mount
Weight: 16.54 pounds as pictured

Buying experience: Contacted Mecy Line from Miracle through Alibaba. Ordered on November 21st, shipped on December 4th, and received on December 12th. Communication through email was smooth and Mecy responded to questions within a day.

Build experience: No problems building this bike up. There are a few peculiarities. As others have mentioned, the RD cable exits right at the dropout. Use a small skewer nut, so that it doesn't interfere too much with the RD cable. The internal cable guides don't cross over, but I didn't have problems with routing cables. People have complained about the internal cable guides rattling, but I did not experience this. No problems with seatpost slipping either.

Ride experience: I've ridden over 200 miles on this bike. Ride includes 60 mile group ride, and daily commute. Frame is stiff and beefy. Not the lightest open mold frame out there, but for a sturdy training bike or commuter, this frame will fit the bill. Responds well to sprints and standing.

View attachment 273254
View attachment 273255
View attachment 273256
View attachment 273257


----------



## speedlucky

ok this just an informative post i draw no conclusions from it either way.

I have had 2 chinese carbon frames 1 of the k.u.o.t.a. kredo look alikes (which is now about 5 years old and still being ridden and used in club triathlons by a mate) and a p.i.n.a.r.e.l.l.o. lookalike with 50mm carbon clinchers from cyclingyong, which is now 18mths old.

Yesterday we had a 45c degree day in sydney i rode a 8km journey to work then a 5km ride to the pool on it. i then rode the 8km home, the ride is mostly up hill with a 500m steep descent at the end. It was very hot, at the bottom of the descent i hit a rut that hadnt been there in the morning. the rear wheel has split at the lamination between braking surface and the rim. thinking that it was just out of true i never bothered to check out the wheel and then rode it the 8km in to work. the wheel held together  i got a taxi home.

a question though ... at this point i checked the frame everywhere for damage and have found some hair line cracking around the chainstays at the bottom bracket, is likely to be in the frame or just the paintwork.


----------



## solarFlash

It's time to replace the bearings in the Neco headset that came with my AC053/MC053 frame from Ican. Unfortunately the cartridges are badly corroded (indoor training without using a bike thong :mad2: ) and I can't see the printed dimensions. A search returned the Neco H373 as potentially being the headset used in this frame. Does anyone know what size of bearings I need or if this is indeed the right headset?


----------



## MKO

solarFlash said:


> It's time to replace the bearings in the Neco headset that came with my AC053/MC053 frame from Ican. Unfortunately the cartridges are badly corroded (indoor training without using a bike thong :mad2: ) and I can't see the printed dimensions. A search returned the Neco H373 as potentially being the headset used in this frame. Does anyone know what size of bearings I need or if this is indeed the right headset?


If you enlarged this photo, you can see the size of the bearings.

upper bearing - 41.8x30.8x45°x45°
lower bearing - 52x40x45°x45°

It should be the right headset as AC53 headset specs is -top: 1-1/8" down: 1-1/2".


----------



## solarFlash

Thanks!


----------



## mrcreosote

@speedlucky
I have similar hairline cracks at the chainstay/BB joint in my 8 year old Look KG461. I wouldn't worry about it. Just keep an eye on them for any significant change.


----------



## Boombaux

are there any headsets other than neco that will work with these frames?


----------



## maxxevv

solarFlash said:


> It's time to replace the bearings in the Neco headset that came with my AC053/MC053 frame from Ican. Unfortunately the cartridges are badly corroded (indoor training without using a bike thong :mad2: ) and I can't see the printed dimensions. A search returned the Neco H373 as potentially being the headset used in this frame. Does anyone know what size of bearings I need or if this is indeed the right headset?


Sounds like your bearings were pretty much left 'naked' when installed ? 

Usually, its much advised to install integrated headsets with generous amounts of grease. Preferably marine grade, water repellant types if available. Else, regular bicycle grease with regular checks/ maintenance. 

Hope it helps.


----------



## mrcreosote

Boombaux said:


> are there any headsets other than neco that will work with these frames?


This one

Ritchey Pro Drop in Tapered Headset 1 5 to 1 1 8 15mm | eBay


----------



## solarFlash

Thanks Maxxevv, yeah the LBS installed the headset and it was dry. Got waterproof marine grease now for the new ones


----------



## DudeMtn

My Dengfu FMO15 still going strong. There is absolutely no question I would purchase this bike again and again. Great performance and great value - period!

View attachment 273776


----------



## ian0789

How did you guys find the frame size once you got it? I am torn with ordering a 54cm or 56cm frame. The effective reach for the 56 is 565mm and while I have a frame with the same reach the head tube is massive on the 56 now the 54 is a 555cm reach with a smaller head tube h
eight and I am very comfortable with my other frame that has a 560cm reach. I just am afraid the 56cm frame with be to big in person with how large that head tube is.

Frame I am looking at is
X-Goods

2nd option would be a 56cm of this
X-Goods
It has a 555mm reach and a 150 head tube height

Frame I have now in a 56cm
Motobecane USA | Carbon Road Bicycles | Track Bicycles | Cross Bicycles

Can't decide what will match my moot better but I think the 54 will be more around the same geo


----------



## steel rider

*China "Endurance" frame recommendation?*

Hi all,

I have looked through the pages but it seems most of the frames people are getting are more race oriented. Can someone recommend lightweight endurance type frames? I ride hills and Fondos, and am riding with an old neck injury. I am looking at ordering everything from Pedal Force but they don't really have an endurance frame.

Also, do any of the sources sell everything (frame/fork/SRAM Red build kit/etc) or would I have to source from multiple locations? Ideally I'd like to get everything from as few sources as possible and have it all delivered to my LBS for assembly.

So I guess that's a couple of questions, but thanks!


----------



## kbfore

steel rider said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have looked through the pages but it seems most of the frames people are getting are more race oriented. Can someone recommend lightweight endurance type frames? I ride hills and Fondos, and am riding with an old neck injury. I am looking at ordering everything from Pedal Force but they don't really have an endurance frame.
> 
> Also, do any of the sources sell everything (frame/fork/SRAM Red build kit/etc) or would I have to source from multiple locations? Ideally I'd like to get everything from as few sources as possible and have it all delivered to my LBS for assembly.
> 
> So I guess that's a couple of questions, but thanks!


I would think about getting a cyclocross frame or a mountain bike frame and putting road wheels and components on it. Or get a frame a little small so the top tube is not stretching you out and make up the difference with a long seat post. 

For components you will have to shop around.


----------



## ms6073

steel rider said:


> Can someone recommend lightweight endurance type frames? I ride hills and Fondos, and am riding with an old neck injury. I am looking at ordering everything from Pedal Force but they don't really have an endurance frame.


No experience with these frames but a cursory search turned up the Dengfu FM066 or 2013 IP-306 marketed by Xiamen Iplay


----------



## steel rider

ms6073 said:


> No experience with these frames but a cursory search turned up the Dengfu FM066 or 2013 IP-306 marketed by Xiamen Iplay


Wow looks very interesting. So much research to do by going this option. Will talk to one of my LBS buddies and see what they charge to build. Then get prices on build kits, etc etc. Still looking for frames people have had good experience with.


----------



## Rainerhq

Anybody has info about HongFu FM-166?


----------



## Seneb

It's been a while since I have posted here, so I figured I would put up a couple new photos of my Flyxii Fr-303. I still love the frame. It was supposed to be a temporary frame until I found something I really wanted, but there is nothing out there that really excites me and I can't really find any faults to this frame. It's smooth, handles great, and is light. As it sits in the photos (with Garmin and pump), it weighs 15.83 pounds.

View attachment 273937

View attachment 273938


----------



## jwl325

Beautiful!


----------



## MTBMaven

Having watched these stickies for three years I know this is a reoccurring issues. function was better I would likely have found my answer on my own, but alas I have to ask. *Have others found luck in replacing the stock saddle clamp with a Bontrager clamp?* 

I have an FM098 and my saddle keeps tilting skyward. I've clamped the neck out of it. Now it just seems to be lose in an otherwise tight clamp. I managed to follow others advise and stop post slippage with carbon paste and a soda can shim.


----------



## jrduquemin

Hi guys,

Do any of the Chinese frame manufacturers have a Trek Madone replica in their inventories? I've had a look in some of them but can't find one anywhere....

Cheers...


----------



## scubajunkee

jrduquemin said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Do any of the Chinese frame manufacturers have a Trek Madone replica in their inventories? I've had a look in some of them but can't find one anywhere....
> 
> Cheers...


Yes, I got mine fron carbonzone over the summer. Model number RB002. Other manufacturers have it as FM028. Here are some photos of my build:


----------



## ms6073

scubajunkee said:


> Yes, I got mine fron carbonzone over the summer. Model number RB002. Other manufacturers have it as FM028. Here are some photos of my build:


Nice bike. Now others may likley say its okay, but I have to comment that manufacturers don't want more than a 4cm stack height with carbon forks with carbon steerer tubes yet it looks like there are 5-6cm of spacers in your images. Based on how you have your bike set up, I really think you need to consider going custom for your next bike.


----------



## scubajunkee

ms6073 said:


> Nice bike. Now others may likley say its okay, but I have to comment that manufacturers don't want more than a 4cm stack height with carbon forks with carbon steerer tubes yet it looks like there are 5-6cm of spacers in your images. Based on how you have your bike set up, I really think you need to consider going custom for your next bike.


I have yet to cut the fork down. But thanks for the tip.


----------



## Thanos

Cervélo S5 replica (Cycling Yong), great frame:
View attachment 274256


ERMOKRATIS


----------



## indrek

View attachment 274098

Anyone has any clue what frame is this? The company "Mathot" brands the popular chinese frames, so I assume this is one just like that, but can't find the manufacturer...


----------



## vanskater

MTBMaven said:


> Having watched these stickies for three years I know this is a reoccurring issues. function was better I would likely have found my answer on my own, but alas I have to ask. *Have others found luck in replacing the stock saddle clamp with a Bontrager clamp?*
> 
> I have an FM098 and my saddle keeps tilting skyward. I've clamped the neck out of it. Now it just seems to be lose in an otherwise tight clamp. I managed to follow others advise and stop post slippage with carbon paste and a soda can shim.


that is what i had to end up doing.


----------



## MTBMaven

vanskater said:


> that is what i had to end up doing.


Thanks for the reply. I PMed FTM, he said the same thing. A buddy has an extra Bonti post I'm picking up on Monday. Hopefully this will solve the problem.


----------



## MTBMaven

I haven't taken the time to post a pic of my FM-098 yet here's a quick go. I think I finished it back in October timeframe. So far I've done a few close to 100 mile rides, including two very wet rides. 

I purchased the frame from Deng Fu through a group buy on Velo Builds. The process took a while but the savings covered the cost of shipping and custom paint. Deng Fu painted the UD frame and used a matte clear coat. The paint scheme is based on a Specialized Venge design from last year. I don't think it's still available. I tried coming up with something myself but never made anything I liked. I kept coming back to this design. I didn't want to create a Chinarello-like clone. I don't think it look too clone-like, others my disagree. In the end I'm very pleased with the outcome and that's what matters. As for the Maven graphics I belatedly copied the Mathot font. I created the font graphics myself and used a local painter to paint the font. I also had him re-clear coat the frame. The matte from Deng Fu looked like a chalkboard. He did a 60% gloss 40% matte. I like the results much better. My only sort of regret was going with UD and not 3K weave. It's not a huge regret but if I had to do it again I would go with 3K. 

The wheels are from Farsport. They are 50mm clincher UD with basalt brake surface. I went with red nipples. I forget the hubs I went with but it was during the time when the were having issues with one of they suppliers. The wheels have been great but I am reluctant to ride them on the hill/mountain rides I regularly ride in my area. I've taken to putting on my Al wheels from my other bike when doing these rides.

I went with SRAM Force, BB30, compact double with 12x26 cassette. Most of the other parts are from Craig's List. Thanks to the CraigsNotifica Android app, I created several searches and responded to items within minutes of posting. Parts include red Selle SMP saddle, red Ritchey WCS stem, 3T compact bars, Planet Bike Ti carbon handle skewers. I know, I know that cage is terrible. I've since gone with a more appropriate red composite cage.

I LOVE riding this bike! From the first ride with a less than perfect fit I knew it was fun to ride. It is FAST compared to my old ride! I'm coming from a custom DeSalvo steel frame. The Maven is almost 4 pounds light and the wheels are much lighter too. That all adds up to a much faster ride, which is actually noticeable on the 80-90 mile rides I've done. Also the cockpit is more compact than my other bike, which is more comfortable. The riding position is actually more comfortable than my custom bike. I went over budget with the painting, custom font work and re-clear coat but in the end I'm super happy with the results. The big thing I'd like to do at this point would be nicer carbon wheels that I can comfortably descend a long steep mountain descent. Might have to go with a carbon/Al wheel, as I'm not going to spend $4k on wheels.

Here's a pic:


----------



## horvatht

My new build. Cipollini RB1K This bike frame is awesome. Bought from Cycling yong. Jennifer was great. Frame shipped from China made it to California in one week. I was so Afraid of purchasing from China. The experience was great. Frame weight was 1300 grams for large frame. 400 for uncut fork. I'm very happy w this frame so far.


----------



## anthonysjb

Has anyone here had any experience with GreatKeen? Want to get one of their S5 replicas, unsure about the quality of them and the service given.

Thanks.


----------



## loona

is anyone currently building a Chinese hard tail 
or 
Chinese full suspension mtn bike ?
and have build pix 

this past week end the mtn bike group ride discussed this topic 
during the whole ride . 
and lots of ideas were flying around.
like fork choices and finished bike weights 
versus 
walking into a local bike shop and trying to find a 15 lbs. 
mtn bike on the show room floor.


----------



## euro-trash

I did use the search function, but with this thread so large I may have missed something, if so, my apologies. I have my chose narrowed down to two options, the Light Bicycles road frame, and the Flyxi FR-308. Anyone with direct knowledge of both? I'm operating on the assumption the performance difference between the two will be negligible. So, is there one with better quality control (i.e. less probability of the headtube and fork not aligning)?


----------



## Boombaux

Maven-

check out Flo wheels. never used them myself but a lot of people give them good reviews and are happy. they are a little heavier than zipp or enve's would be, but they do wind tunnel testing and have some pretty good aero results


----------



## kbfore

*Chipo*



anthonysjb said:


> Has anyone here had any experience with GreatKeen? Want to get one of their S5 replicas, unsure about the quality of them and the service given.
> 
> Thanks.


Any pics?? Does it say Chipo?


----------



## horvatht

Pic of Cipollini RB1K


----------



## j4son

i like it so far 
View attachment 274207


taking her out for a time trial this weekend.

View attachment 274208


----------



## MTBMaven

Boombaux said:


> Maven-
> 
> check out Flo wheels. never used them myself but a lot of people give them good reviews and are happy. they are a little heavier than zipp or enve's would be, but they do wind tunnel testing and have some pretty good aero results


Do these Flo wheels not melt from sustained braking?


----------



## mrcreosote

scubajunkee said:


> I have yet to cut the fork down. But thanks for the tip.


Whatever the length you end up with, a single spacer the right length will always be stronger than multiple stacked spacers

Carbon Head Stem Spacer 50mm x 1 1/8" | eBay


----------



## jonspinney

Anyone have any knowledge of whether there are Chinese ebay carbon road frames that are able to be built up with Ultegra Di2 (electronic shifting) with internal cable routing?

I did a quick search but the volume of information in these threads is pretty significant - if I missed something, sorry. Would appreciate any tips - I've been out of cycling for a couple of years and so I'm a bit out of touch, but I'm looking to maybe do a build this winter.


----------



## horvatht

jonspinney said:


> Anyone have any knowledge of whether there are Chinese ebay carbon road frames that are able to be built up with Ultegra Di2 (electronic shifting) with internal cable routing?
> 
> I did a quick search but the volume of information in these threads - if I missed something, sorry. Would appreciate any tips - I've been out of cycling for a couple of years and so I'm a bit out of touch, but I'm looking to maybe do a build this winter.


Try cyclingyong.com


----------



## horvatht

What do u have to do to take a picture with this app?


----------



## Andy STi

Just wanted to throw up some pictures of my Miracle Bikes MC105 cross frame. Just received the frame last week so I haven't begun building it yet. I don't need it until September but I'm planning on finishing it soon so I can decided if I want to order another. 

I ordered through email and everything went very well. The frame was packed expertly and the box was perfect upon arrival to Oregon. 

The frame is a size 58 and weighs 1200gm (on my scale) with the rear hanger. The fork is 450gm. The bike will be race only and I can't wait to try it out.

Pardon the messy garage. Winter bike builds and ski waxing don't leave room for much else.


----------



## jonspinney

horvatht said:


> Try cyclingyong.com


Thanks! I'll check it out. Also, apparently the FM066 from Hong Fu is Di2 compatible (which presumably means without too much trouble to install...)

Anyway thanks for the reply


----------



## SirVelo'

jonspinney said:


> Thanks! I'll check it out. Also, apparently the FM066 from Hong Fu is Di2 compatible (which presumably means without too much trouble to install...)
> 
> Anyway thanks for the reply


[url=http://greatkeenbike.com]greatkeenbike.com [/URL]has frames Di2 ready as well....also if you check out [url=http://aliexpress.com]Aliexpress.com - Online Shopping for Electronics, Fashion, Home & Garden, Toys & Sports, Automobiles from China.[/URL]...you will find lots.


----------



## rbart4506

horvatht said:


> What do u have to do to take a picture with this app?


No probs with pics...

I think your issue is your frame/bike is a knockoff/counterfeit and not a non-branded open mold frame...


----------



## horvatht

rbart4506 said:


> No probs with pics...
> 
> I think your issue is your frame/bike is a knockoff/counterfeit and not a non-branded open mold frame...


You sound jealous


----------



## PlatyPius

horvatht said:


> You sound jealous


Seriously? Jealous of a counterfeit frame? lol.

RBR doesn't allow pictures or links involving counterfeit frames. So if yours is one, that could be why there are no pictures.


----------



## horvatht

PlatyPius said:


> Seriously? Jealous of a counterfeit frame? lol.
> 
> RBR doesn't allow pictures or links involving counterfeit frames. So if yours is one, that could be why there are no pictures.


The new app does not allow me to take a picture of the wall!


----------



## Gjash

ejprez said:


> How do I get one painted? I asked them and they sent me a pic and told me to paint it. I was thinking they should send me a photo shop type file with a blank white frame or something like that. The roll of making tape propping up the bike is priceless :lol:


Could someone identify this frame? The picture is in post number 2616. Thanks!


----------



## levelred

Sorry to jump in, but i've been just lurking  and I hoping that I would get a better insight about building one, but I haven't. Are there any sites out there that offers a pre-build chinese carbon besides nashbar?


----------



## lexx770

I also want to buy this frameset FR-315. 
If possible, I would like to see detailed pictures of your bike in the fixing and transitions cable hosing!


----------



## turboferret

Does anyone know anything about the new TT bike from HongFu?

Due to my low post count I can't post links, but it's on their page under Time Trial Frame

Looks pretty smart, almost a hybrid of a Cervelo P5 (gussets between top/seat tube, and top/down tube) and a Specialized Shiv (top of stem flush with top of top tube, cowl in front of head tube)

I've emailed them for some more info, just waiting to find out weights, BB specs, whether it is Di2 compatible etc.

I've previously bought a Dogma copy from GreatKeen after reading this thread, and another TT frame direct from China, and they've both been great!

Cheers, Rich


----------



## rbart4506

horvatht said:


> You sound jealous


Sure...

If you did a some searching you will see I own an FM-028 and an FM-029, and my wife does as well...Plus we have the TT frame above coming in about a month...

So no I am not jealous of your counterfeit bike...If you want a Cippo frame, buy a Cippo frame....If your can't afford a Cippo frame then buy something you can


----------



## horvatht

rbart4506 said:


> Sure...
> 
> If you did a some searching you will see I own an FM-028 and an FM-029, and my wife does as well...Plus we have the TT frame above coming in about a month...
> 
> So no I am not jealous of your counterfeit bike...If you want a Cippo frame, buy a Cippo frame....If your can't afford a Cippo frame then buy something you can


U r jealous


----------



## Jakak

Guys,

STAY AWAY FROM CHINESE SELLER KODE BIKES HK CO LTD / JONSON KD TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT

I ordered a handlebar a while ago from them and the painting finish was terrible (paint was evidently dripping off during painting process, somewhere you could see carbon through white paint+ it cracked after app. 200 miles.)

They didn't want to hear anything about this problem before threthening with paypal claim.
After that they have offered a discount if I order a frame from them (Chinarello 65.1).
Obviously I am naive and I thrust too much, so I decided to pull the triger on mentioned frame.

Firstly dispatch time was 35 days instead of 14 days, but ok let's say this is normal for Chinese.

After receiving the frame, it was scratched on several places nevertheless the transport box was basically untouched and undamaged so evidently it was scratched before dispatch/during placing it in the box.

Paint finish was awfull and looked like a complete amateur painted it...somewhere too thick while somewhere too thin, etc.
On some places there were visible paint deformations due to the fact that frame was placed on the ground before the paint dried.

Rear derailleur was not working properly as it should after which LBS discovered cable friction inside the frame since their "Internal routing" is done very superficial and without internal "guides" for cables so rear deraileur can not work properly.
Etc, etc.

Since above issues are only the mayor ones and there are so many other issues which I have with this frame, I decided to share my experiences with so called "Trust worthy" Chinese seller KODE BIKES HK.

It is unnecessary to say that the frame was already disasembled and is stored in the back of my garrage since I don't feel confident riding it speccially after my LBS shop advised me to put this frame away due to suspicious lamination and finish of front forks.

I hope that you will consider above facts before ordering any piece of carbon from mentioned seller.


----------



## rbart4506

horvatht said:


> U r jealous


Whatever dude...Think what you want...You are the man...BTW IGNORE!


----------



## indrek

Has anyone moved from FM028/FM029 to FM066? If so how does it compare? I'm currently riding FM029 ISP (52cm) and am very happy with the ride characteristics but would like to upgrade to something newer and lighter. I've read that the FM066 tubes are crazy thin and flex under fingers and this is giving me concerns about the overall stiffness of the frame. I'm 70kg (154lbs) and like more rigid and stiff frames, don't care so much about comfort. Am I worrying too much or should I look for something else than FM066? Thanks for any feedback.


----------



## Jakak

Guys,

STAY AWAY FROM CHINESE SELLER KODE BIKES HK CO LTD / JONSON KD TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT

I ordered a handlebar a while ago from them and the painting finish was terrible (paint was evidently dripping off during painting process, somewhere you could see carbon through white paint+ it cracked after app. 200 miles.)

They didn't want to hear anything about this problem before threthening with paypal claim.
After that they have offered a discount if I order a frame from them (Chinarello 65.1).
Obviously I am naive and I thrust too much, so I decided to pull the triger on mentioned frame.

Firstly dispatch time was 35 days instead of 14 days, but ok let's say this is normal for Chinese.

After receiving the frame, it was scratched on several places nevertheless the transport box was basically untouched and undamaged so evidently it was scratched before dispatch/during placing it in the box.

Paint finish was awfull and looked like a complete amateur painted it.

On some places there are visible paint deformations due to the fact that obviously the frame was placed on the ground before the paint dried.

Rear derailleur is not working properly as it should after which LBS discovered a cable friction inside the frame, since their "Internal routing" is done very superficial and without internal "guides" for cables so rear deraileur can not work properly and is touching inside of the frame on several places.
Etc, etc.

Since above issues are only the mayor ones and there are so many other issues which I have with KODE frame, I decided to share my experiences with you about so called "Trust worthy" Chinese seller KODE BIKES HK.

It is unnecessary to say that the frame was already disasembled and is stored in the back of my garrage since I don't feel confident riding it, speccially after my LBS shop advised me to put this frame away due to suspicious lamination and finish of the front forks.

I hope that you will consider above facts before ordering any piece of carbon from mentioned seller.


----------



## wevergo

Jakak said:


> Guys,
> 
> STAY AWAY FROM CHINESE SELLER KODE BIKES HK CO LTD / JONSON KD TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
> 
> I ordered a handlebar a while ago from them and the painting finish was terrible (paint was evidently dripping off during painting process, somewhere you could see carbon through white paint+ it cracked after app. 200 miles.)
> 
> They didn't want to hear anything about this problem before threthening with paypal claim.
> After that they have offered a discount if I order a frame from them (Chinarello 65.1).
> Obviously I am naive and I thrust too much, so I decided to pull the triger on mentioned frame.
> 
> Firstly dispatch time was 35 days instead of 14 days, but ok let's say this is normal for Chinese.
> 
> After receiving the frame, it was scratched on several places nevertheless the transport box was basically untouched and undamaged so evidently it was scratched before dispatch/during placing it in the box.
> 
> Paint finish was awfull and looked like a complete amateur painted it.
> 
> On some places there are visible paint deformations due to the fact that obviously the frame was placed on the ground before the paint dried.
> 
> Rear derailleur is not working properly as it should after which LBS discovered a cable friction inside the frame, since their "Internal routing" is done very superficial and without internal "guides" for cables so rear deraileur can not work properly and is touching inside of the frame on several places.
> Etc, etc.
> 
> Since above issues are only the mayor ones and there are so many other issues which I have with KODE frame, I decided to share my experiences with you about so called "Trust worthy" Chinese seller KODE BIKES HK.
> 
> It is unnecessary to say that the frame was already disasembled and is stored in the back of my garrage since I don't feel confident riding it, speccially after my LBS shop advised me to put this frame away due to suspicious lamination and finish of the front forks.
> 
> I hope that you will consider above facts before ordering any piece of carbon from mentioned seller.


Can you post pictures of the frame?


----------



## kbfore

*Pic?*



horvatht said:


> Pic of Cipollini RB1K


Pic did not work. Please try again.


----------



## horvatht

kbfore said:


> Pic did not work. Please try again.


I took a picture.


----------



## horvatht

No picture


----------



## blacktalon

horvatht said:


> No picture


And per the forum rules, there will be NO PICTURE... its a knockoff!

Long time lurker, finally annoyed enough to post.


----------



## ian0789

For anyone who bought a frameset, did your frame come with barrel adjusters for the Shifter cables or water bottle cage bolts?

Ordered my frame and am trying to pick up any little odds and ends that I might need before it arrives.


----------



## horvatht

blacktalon said:


> And per the forum rules, there will be NO PICTURE... its a knockoff!
> 
> Long time lurker, finally annoyed enough to post.


The picture that I took this morning was of the desk in my office.


----------



## ericTheHalf

ian0789 said:


> For anyone who bought a frameset, did your frame come with barrel adjusters for the Shifter cables or water bottle cage bolts?
> 
> Ordered my frame and am trying to pick up any little odds and ends that I might need before it arrives.


My FM028 did not come with barrel adjusters. I got water bottle cages at the same time and those bolts came with the cages.


----------



## kbfore

*Where?*



horvatht said:


> Looking for a light set of 50 or 60 mm wheels in carbon. Any body have a reliable source?


WOW!!! I wish I hadn't already got a frame last month. Where did you get it? I searched for one, but the price was three times what I could pay on Velobuild.com


----------



## horvatht

danny87 said:


> How much did you pay? Including delivery price.


900.00


----------



## danny87

So that's about £600, t'is a nice frame. I have a Hongfu FM015 had it about 2 years or so. Paid about £250 (delivered) for it. Now I know it would cost 10 times more for a 'real' one of these ^ But I personally am not willing to pay £600 for ANY frame bought direct from China or anywhere else  But it's tempting, you can't get much better for £600 in the UK..


----------



## persondude27

ian0789 said:


> For anyone who bought a frameset, did your frame come with barrel adjusters for the Shifter cables or water bottle cage bolts?
> 
> Ordered my frame and am trying to pick up any little odds and ends that I might need before it arrives.


If you buy a Jagwire Racer cable kit ($35 - it's still a bit less than piecing all the parts together), it comes with 2x brake and derailleur cables, derailleur and brake housing, as well as all the bits and pieces. Mine two years ago came with two barrel adjusters for a stop. I use those on my FM015 (and they've done me well - a little redundant, actually. You'd definitely be able to get away without 'em).

I built up an FM015 for my roommate - he wanted them, so they were $3.00 ea from Performance (spare parts).


----------



## 1805078

*Giant ISP Carbon frames*

Anyone found replica Giant road frames as yet??


----------



## loona

what is the lowest price Chinese carbon fiber frame right now ?

in a 50 cm or 51 cm


----------



## persondude27

loona said:


> what is the lowest price Chinese carbon fiber frame right now ?
> 
> in a 50 cm or 51 cm


FR303 3K Full Carbon Glossy Road Bicycle Frame Fork Alloy Headset 50cm | eBay

Probably looking at something like this. Don't know anything about the seller - but I'd say $400 shipped is about the lowest I've seen. There are some BMC ripoffs for a touch more.


----------



## blend76

mrcreosote said:


> you mean this?
> 
> Carbon Fiber Track Bicycle Frame Size 51cm with Top Tube 56cm in Stock | eBay
> 
> or this?
> 
> Carbon Track frame - Shop Cheap Carbon Track frame from China Carbon Track frame Suppliers at Shanghai Hongying Trade Co., Ltd. on Aliexpress.com
> 
> or these?
> 
> Wholesale carbon track frame - Buy Low Price carbon track frame Lots on Aliexpress.com


Yeah,
That's the one. It looks pretty awful though. I hope there was something little bit more classic looking available. In the vein of Mash, Vigorelli and the like. Of course the thing is a street bike gets bashed around quite a bit more than your average road bike. Unless of course you really ride the track bike on the velo...


----------



## Bigsy

persondude27 said:


> FR303 3K Full Carbon Glossy Road Bicycle Frame Fork Alloy Headset 50cm | eBay
> 
> Probably looking at something like this. Don't know anything about the seller - but I'd say $400 shipped is about the lowest I've seen. There are some BMC ripoffs for a touch more.


The seller is flyxii they have been ok with me in the past, a few niggles but nothing a paypal threat didnt sort out. It appears their now actually barred from velobuild so I would say buyer beware.


----------



## mfuchs

Jakak said:


> Guys,
> 
> STAY AWAY FROM CHINESE SELLER KODE BIKES HK CO LTD / JONSON KD TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
> 
> I ordered a handlebar a while ago from them and the painting finish was terrible (paint was evidently dripping off during painting process, somewhere you could see carbon through white paint+ it cracked after app. 200 miles.)
> 
> They didn't want to hear anything about this problem before threthening with paypal claim.
> After that they have offered a discount if I order a frame from them (Chinarello 65.1).
> Obviously I am naive and I thrust too much, so I decided to pull the triger on mentioned frame.
> 
> Firstly dispatch time was 35 days instead of 14 days, but ok let's say this is normal for Chinese.
> 
> After receiving the frame, it was scratched on several places nevertheless the transport box was basically untouched and undamaged so evidently it was scratched before dispatch/during placing it in the box.
> 
> Paint finish was awfull and looked like a complete amateur painted it...somewhere too thick while somewhere too thin, etc.
> On some places there were visible paint deformations due to the fact that frame was placed on the ground before the paint dried.
> 
> Rear derailleur was not working properly as it should after which LBS discovered cable friction inside the frame since their "Internal routing" is done very superficial and without internal "guides" for cables so rear deraileur can not work properly.
> Etc, etc.
> 
> Since above issues are only the mayor ones and there are so many other issues which I have with this frame, I decided to share my experiences with so called "Trust worthy" Chinese seller KODE BIKES HK.
> 
> It is unnecessary to say that the frame was already disasembled and is stored in the back of my garrage since I don't feel confident riding it speccially after my LBS shop advised me to put this frame away due to suspicious lamination and finish of front forks.
> 
> I hope that you will consider above facts before ordering any piece of carbon from mentioned seller.



I've ordered 3 frames from them and have not had any of these issues on any of them.


----------



## loona

will the chinese carbon road bike frames accept these parts ?

TruVativ GXP integrated external bearing bottom bracket

front triple derailleur clamp-on, 31.8mm


----------



## persondude27

loona said:


> will the chinese carbon road bike frames accept these parts ?
> 
> TruVativ GXP integrated external bearing bottom bracket
> 
> front triple derailleur clamp-on, 31.8mm


For the bottom bracket, the frame needs to be English and GXP (not BB30 or 90).

My frame had a clamp of 34.9. That depends on the frame.


----------



## serrone

*Miracle mt mc 018*


----------



## MTB IKER

I know that the top 3 frame builders are Hongfu , Dengfu and Miracle , but i could not find what i was looking for. I was looking for an 16 ", 12k weave with inner cable routing. The only one i could find was Shenzhen Zhongwei Composite Materials. Has anybody some experience with them ?


----------



## mcfly

i am looking at frames from denfu, have it at either the 60cm fm029 or the 61cm fm098 cant decide...looking for feedback on these 2 in these sizes - thanks


----------



## Rob81

looking for a 650c (26'' wheels) road frame+fork, anyone can help finding it? I looked for it but with no luck. A TT frame could be fine too.


----------



## loona

does anyone know if one of the Chinese carbon frame builders 

has a current 700c road bike frame with a 51.5 cm top tube length ?


----------



## smellmypeebody

Hi Everyone,
I've been going through these threads but am having trouble finding a Scott Foil Replica? I'm looking for one in a matte finish and 52cm. 

Thanks!


----------



## Maglore

You want to look at the MC053 from Miracle Trade.


----------



## ian0789

So I just got all my parts in and I will be taking my new bike to the shop to have to set it. The guy who owns the shop is awesome! So I will be watching it get set up right before my eyes hopefully Thursday this week coming up! I can wrench a few things but I figured what the heck might as well just have it done up the proper way and have everything looked over so I dont mess anything up, and I will get to learn a bit as well on some of the stuff I have never worked on.

Build ended up coming out to $1,145.00 and since I ended up selling a bunch of random parts from my trainer bike I swapped out and an airsoft gun it only ended up to $575.00! All in all I am really excited to get this built up with the spring coming around the corner. 

Bike Build: Chinese Carbon Parts other then Seatpost Clamp came from X-Goods.com
FR-302 56cm frame set 12K Weave Glossy 
Carbon Seatpost 3K Weave 
Carbon / Alloy Headset 3K Weave 
420MM Carbon Bars 3K Weave (Medium Grip)
2x Carbon Water Bottle Cages 3K Weave 
Carbon Seatpost Clamp 3K Weave 
Shifter/Brake Cables and Housing 
FSA Gossamer Crankset
Ritchey Pro Streem V2 Saddle
Ritchey Carbon/Alloy Stem
MicroShift 9 Speed STI Shifters
Nashbar Jailbreak Brake Set
Ultegra Cassette
Dura Ace Cassette Lock Ring(Got a cassette for free but didnt have a ring)
105 Front Derailleur 
105 Rear Derailleur 
KMC 9 Speed Chain
KREX Front Derailleur Clamp(Original frame had braze on but was sold out)
Shimano R550 Wheel Set
2x Conti 23mm Gator Skin Tires
2x Nashbar Tire Tubes
Clear Chainstay Protector
Exustar Pedals
Cateye Astrale 8
Black Handle Bar Tape/Plugs


So in a nutshell I ended up spending what I wanted to but I probably could have saved about 20-60 bucks on parts if I didnt order my handlebars off ebay and pay the shipping since at 1st I was going to get the bars for my other bike. Not buying a Braze on Front Derailleur untill I was 100% my frame was or wasnt going to be clamp on. Silly stuff like that, but I will say I was able to keep the price down because I knew what I wanted and I hunted down parts and stacked Ebay. My girlfriend wanted to kill me due to the fact I was searching for parts for hours on hours. I felt fried at the very end of buying the last parts. I asked for a gift card to Nashbar for X-Mas and waited for a sale to buy a few of the parts. I was able to get wheels, shifters and a few other parts that tend to be more expensive for cheap. 

If you play your cards right and wait it out its well worth it. I got a really good deal on the wheel set and cant thank the seller enough how much I love them. So now I just cant wait to see how it turns out. Its really worth it if you have a plan of attack. If you buy things just randomly or dont search around and think its going to be cheap you will find your self burning a hole in your pocket way to fast 

I did go with 105 Front and Rear Derailleur. My main bike is all Ultegra and while I do love the shifting and feel.... my trainer bike has 105 and I am very happy with how it performs. I probably could have spent a bit more and decked it out with Ultegra but honestly I dont regret one bit buying 105 for this bike. 

From what I can see from how the frame and other parts look and feel its real solid compared to my Moto Le Champion CF. Cant wait to see how it rides. It seems a bit more of a race geo vs my Moto but the stats are very much similar. And just as others have said make sure you know what you frame size fit is before you go out and drop the cash on one of these. While they are very well packed when shipped I could see it being a pain in the butt if you got a damaged item or had to send it back for a better fit.

I have boxes all over our room an parts taking up the hamper basket so I didnt end up snapping any pictures but I will have a bunch while its built up and the finished bike! Wish me luck I cant stop thinking about the finished product!

Hope this posts helps others who are thinking about building one from the ground up. I am sure people have gotten better for cheaper or spent way more but this is my experience with my 1st Chinese carbon build!


----------



## smellmypeebody

Maglore said:


> You want to look at the MC053 from Miracle Trade.


Thanks. From what I read through the thread, I was going through the Miracle Trade website. I just couldn't figure out if it's possible to order just 1 frame vs purchase a 5 minimum?

I've emailed but still waiting on a response.


----------



## DrDamage

Hi All,

I just wanted to say thanks to the people posting info and pics on this thread - I have ready just about all of ver 5 and 6.0 of the thread and have found it very informative.

I'm looking to build my next TT bike using a chinese carbon frame and this thread has certainly helped me to narrow down my options.


----------



## persondude27

smellmypeebody said:


> Thanks. From what I read through the thread, I was going through the Miracle Trade website. I just couldn't figure out if it's possible to order just 1 frame vs purchase a 5 minimum?
> 
> I've emailed but still waiting on a response.


Their website? Do you mean Shenzhen Miracle Carbon Technology Co., Limited - Bike

They do one-frame sales through Alibaba. It's sketchy, but they seem to be one of the better suppliers.

Edit: Remember that you're emailing the other side of the globe. Their business hours tend to be the opposite of yours - I've gotten responses at about 10 or 11 PM MST from Hongfu.


----------



## tommyridesadengfu

Been riding a Dengfu fm001 for over 2 years and have well over 5000 miles and rides great. The top and front tubes could be a bit stiffer.

Also, just built up a flyxii 316. Stiff and more responsive steering than the fm001. Build was easy with no major issues. With Red and Revolution r22 wheels its not super light but is snappy and fun to ride.


----------



## EMMANUEL151

Hello guys i ordered a FM066SL last week i will receive it today , i ll let you know about it.


----------



## domos

Hey guys, Having been pretty keen to get a HongFu bike after my Dirty Disco was stolen and now On-One have really jacked up their prices 

I am having a hard time choosing between the cyclocross Disc (FM059) and the road Disc (FM166). I don't know what the difference would be between these two frames? Does anyone know?

I queried the seller at the factory on the headset size required and his reply was that the frame would fit headset sizes 1 1/8"to 1 1/2".

I am confused here? Do you think it might mean that the bike can be adjusted to suit both? I am hoping that it is still precision machined and that the headset is not a loose or sloppy fit so that both can be fitted? I thought that only one type of headset would suit a frame?

The FM166 is UD weave, while the FM059 is 3K/12K. Do you guys know which frame might be stronger?

Thanks guys,


----------



## Crawf

domos said:


> Hey guys, Having been pretty keen to get a HongFu bike after my Dirty Disco was stolen and now On-One have really jacked up their prices
> 
> I am having a hard time choosing between the cyclocross Disc (FM059) and the road Disc (FM166). I don't know what the difference would be between these two frames? Does anyone know?
> 
> I queried the seller at the factory on the headset size required and his reply was that the frame would fit headset sizes 1 1/8"to 1 1/2".
> 
> I am confused here? Do you think it might mean that the bike can be adjusted to suit both? I am hoping that it is still precision machined and that the headset is not a loose or sloppy fit so that both can be fitted? I thought that only one type of headset would suit a frame?
> 
> The FM166 is UD weave, while the FM059 is 3K/12K. Do you guys know which frame might be stronger?
> 
> Thanks guys,


The headset spec you mentioned means that the lower bearing is 1 1/2" and the upper bearing is 1 1/8", its tapered. So both are the same spec.

The FM059 (which I have) is a CX frame with bigger tyre clearance, it will have a longer wheel base and a bit more relaxed geometry.
The FM166 as its name states has a more road orientated geometry with tighter clearances for road tyres, it'll also probably be a little lighter.
You won't be able to tell the difference between UD/3K/12K fibres, if anything they may well both be 3k underneath with a 'whatever' finish. To make it look UD/3K or 12k


----------



## domos

*FM059 Configuration Queries*

Thanks for your quick feedback - 

Do you mind me asking how you set up your FM059? Did you use disc brakes? If so what types of mounts and rotors did you need to get it set up? On the Dirty Disco I had Post-Mount-6 with 6" rotors front and back, set up with mountain flat bar. The reason I ask is that I can see the mounts tend to stick out more on the FM059 compared to the DD.

The DD also had a wheel used to thread the gear shifters through to avoid having cables on the underside of the frame. Does the FM059 have some provisions for this?

I am guessing that in addition to the frame/fork, you also needed a 1 1/8 expander headset as well as the 1 1/8 to 1 1/2 headset bearings?

Do you know what the seat tube diameter is for the FM059, or if you bought of Velobuild they seemed like decent posts?

Also (if you bought off Velobuild), Do the stems they sell have any tilt (5 Deg) and I am guessing are oversize designed for a 31.8mm handlebar clamp and a 1 1/8 stem?

Thanks again, Much appreciated


----------



## mcfly

does anyone have a picture of a built up 60cm deng fu fm029? plus just wondering how close the frames measurements are? checked them against my 61cm fuji and for a 60cm the measurements from the website are quite bigger.


----------



## Psyclist.Pinkbike

Has anyone got the Flyxii FLX-FR-R01? I'm thinking of purchasing one but need to know if anybody who wons one had problem with it?

Thanks.

Aliexpress.com : Buy FLX FR R01 brand new full carbon road bike bicycle frame from Reliable bike frame suppliers on Shenzhen Flyxii Sports Equipment Co., Limited


----------



## ian0789

So I just finished up the bike today and made the last of the fit adjustments / slapped on my computer. I am very happy with the bike. It is 18.4lb with peddles, air, cages and all that jazz. All the components are 105-Ultegra and over all the bike feels solid! Rolls really smooth and feels great. Compared to my Carbon Moto the quality is of the carbon is great!

The owner of the shop who knows his **** and is one hell of a guy even said for what I spent it was well worth it and If I went the normal LBS buy I would have ended up with a Alum frame with Sora so I am very happy about this build. A few regulars stopped in along the building of my bike and everyone had great comments about it. I will get some better pics up and ones not in my dungeon


----------



## DivenRide

smellmypeebody said:


> Thanks. From what I read through the thread, I was going through the Miracle Trade website. I just couldn't figure out if it's possible to order just 1 frame vs purchase a 5 minimum?
> 
> I've emailed but still waiting on a response.


It is possible to order single frame set from them. Try to search them in velobuild.com.

The reason that you are not getting any response from them now (or any other reseller from China now) is because they are currently shutdown for the spring/lunar new year holiday. The earliest the you probably could get a response from them will be after 18 Feb.

I am planning to confirm my order for a MC055 in 2 weeks time. Hope it will turn out well.


----------



## MTB IKER

UD = Uni -Directional (weave )all fibers in the same direction as above the "spartacus"
3k weave :weave fibers from +/- 3 mm ( handle bars , seat-posts )
12K weave : weave fibers from +/- 12 mm as above the bike from IAN 0785.

12k is the stiffest frame . Mostly all available in matt or glossy.


----------



## MTB IKER

UD (weave) = Uni - directional :all fibers in the same direction,as above the Miracle MT
3k : Fibers are +/- 3 mm weave ( frames, handle bars , seatposts)
12k : Fibers are +/- 12 mm weave , as below the bike from IAN 0789.

12k is the stiffest frame . Mostly all available in matt or glossy finish.


----------



## vaetuning

Dear MTB IKER

Your explanation is NOT correct!!
UD weawe = uni directional - fibers going in all directions - Marble effect - hense UNI - ...!
3K = 3000 strands of carbon fiber per weave!!
12K = 12000 strands of carbon fiber per weave!!

With respect

Mads


----------



## Psyclist.Pinkbike

*Which sized frame?*

So I'm ordering my frame tomorrow, but I'm stuck. 

I have the Forme Longcliffe in 53cm (530 as shown on the geometry chart) which fits me just fine.

So, which size on the below sizing of the frame below the Longcliffe geo chart, do I choose for my size?

I noticed the t/t is 56.5cm which is where I'm baffled.


View attachment 275231


View attachment 275232


----------



## jswilson64

Here's a website with pics of what they call 3k, 12k, and UD weaves:
The 3k 12K UD carbon fiber weave for rim and frame Light-Bicycle


----------



## ms6073

vaetuning said:


> Your explanation is NOT correct!!


Also seems to be overlooking the fact that this only refers to the outer 'cosmetic' layer and not the actual composition/layup of the frame.


----------



## DrDamage

Hi all,

I have read through a lot of this thread - but some of it is a little out of date I think - I wanted to ask peoples opinion on the best chinese carbon Time Trial frame at the moment - I've been looking around and there seems to be a few that look ok - but the ones touted as the "Latest 2013" model on some sites looks really cheap and not very well engineered. Some of the newer name brand models out there are looking pretty damn speccy with hidden brake recesses in the forks and spots for Di2 batteries etc, and super aero design - are there any decentchinese TT frames that come close?
Would love to hear some TT specific feedback on some of these frames.


----------



## ian0789

So one thing I did notice and it bugged the heck out of me was the front derailleur cable was kind of rubbing into the frame and leaving a bit of a cut mark. While I noticed it right away I was able to fix this. I found a wire in the garage and spliced the housing off and it was just about the perfect size to stick into the internal hole. I just had to push a bit to slide it in and it kind of just pushed the so round hole open to make it nice and snug. Now the cable is inside the plastic and not slowly cutting into the frame. Hopefully from it sitting that way over night and me getting that tube into the frame I didn't weaken the frame.

My bike shop owner said it would be fine but I wasn't about to take the risk. It looked like it would have slowly sawed it's way deeper into the frame and start to crack. Not worth the risk. Few people said you could use derailleur cable housing but I didn't have any left over and it didn't look like it would fit the small hole.

Frame is FR302. Wondering if any others had to so the same. My Motobecane runs the wire the same way but there is no issues with the cable angle.


----------



## wheeliedave

If that is where your stem needs to be. Then that frame does not fit you. Way too many spacers under that stem.


----------



## mcrent100

Nice Bike JackDaniels.. Question.. I have same frame and with the ISP. I want to put a regular seat post in it. I see you have a non standard seatpost setup.. would you mind sharing what you did? There was a thread a long time ago but I cannot locate it on what sizes to order and a specialized seatpost collar I think that fits over the ISP post. I see you have a non standard seat post setup.. would you mind sharing what you did? Or if anyone else has swicthed to regular post from ISP on their FM015 any info would be appreciated...


----------



## ian0789

wheeliedave said:


> If that is where your stem needs to be. Then that frame does not fit you. Way too many spacers under that stem.


Not to be a jerk but um i haven't even ridden it yet so um until the snow is off the road and I take it out on the street I can see if I need to drop the stem down more or put the seat up higher. The seat needs to come up a hair and frankly Id rather have a longer cut Fork then cut it to short and end up with something that I cant adjust. Spacers make it go up and down. Short forks makes me sad I wasted my money.

And since the frame specs are almost the same as my Motobecane I can happily say the bike will fit me perfect once I ride it. That is a 56, if I got a 54 id be so scrunched up on it.


----------



## rbart4506

I think he's hinting you may need a bigger frame, not smaller...


----------



## ian0789

rbart4506 said:


> I think he's hinting you may need a bigger frame, not smaller...


Hmmm well I again don't wanna sound harsh but you guys have no idea what my fit or build size is or preference of how I ride or even the top tube of this bike so making judgment calls on my free to small or large is just silly to say. 555 effective reach is solid for my frame. I am just at 5`10 with average reach for my height.

I posted the picture to show a finished bike that wasn't from a bike shop and believed to blow up after assembled


----------



## meerkite

Hi,
I am looking at building up a carbon bike from one of the dengfu frames,
(Ultegra goupset and some carbon wheels from yoeleo.)
But unsure of what frame to pick? I need an endurance frame that has a easier geometry for training.
I like the look of the FM098, FM029, FM028, FM001
Will require the smallest frame of the sizes also.
Any suggestions? It will be used on a tacx trainer at times also.
Please advise.


----------



## alien4fish

I FINALLY finished "PROTO98", Nekked version1.0:blush2:
enjoy!


----------



## rbart4506

meerkite,
I have the FM028 and FM029, haven't ridden the FM-029 yet, but the FM-028 is a nice frame. I used it last season as my primary race/training bike. The bike handled very well and was very forgiving on our rough roads. From what I have heard the FM-029 rides about the same and the main difference is the full internal cable routing. I'm not sure about the other bikes that you have mentioned.

In my opinion the most important thing will be finding a frame that has the geometry that will fit you the best.


----------



## rbart4506

ian0789 said:


> Hmmm well I again don't wanna sound harsh but you guys have no idea what my fit or build size is or preference of how I ride or even the top tube of this bike so making judgment calls on my free to small or large is just silly to say. 555 effective reach is solid for my frame. I am just at 5`10 with average reach for my height.
> 
> I posted the picture to show a finished bike that wasn't from a bike shop and believed to blow up after assembled


You're taking things way to personally...

The comments were simply based on the photo you provided and the amount of exposed seat post and spacers under the stem pointing to an ill fitting frame. If you have not actually fit yourself to the bike then that's a different story, but with that said I personally consider the fitting as part of the final build. Not to mention when i build my bikes I carry my fit over from the prior bike and then only need to make minor adjustments YMMV...

Either way, have fun with the bike!


----------



## alien4fish

WINDOWS 8 SUUUUUUCks
I will try and post pix from my iphone
whatever you do dont upgrade to windows 8!!!!!


----------



## ms6073

ian0789 said:


> So I just finished up the bike today and made the last of the fit adjustments / slapped on my computer.


With that many spacers under the stem, you have what looks like a 6-7cm stack height when 4cm should be considered the max. 



ian0789 said:


> Hmmm well I again don't wanna sound harsh but you guys have no idea what my fit or build size is or preference of how I ride or even the top tube of this bike so making judgment calls on my free to small or large is just silly to say. 555 effective reach is solid for my frame.


Yes, we understand that you have not had a chance to test ride it, but what we are trying to say is with that much stack height under the handlebars, it will not take much to overstress the steerer tube! Simply stated, it is typically recommended for carbon forks to limit stack height to a max of 4cm!


----------



## mrcreosote

ms6073 said:


> Simply stated, it is typically recommended for carbon forks to limit stack height to a max of 4cm!


.....by manufacturers trying to limit legal liability.

So long as you use a solid spacer the right length, and not the individual spacers supplied, there is no reason you can't have a 6cm stack height.

for example

50mm Carbon Spacer on top of whatever headset cover came with your headset.

remember, larger diameter tubes are stronger than smaller diameter tubes. Adding a solid spacer, you are increasing the effective diameter of the fork steerer.


----------



## twiggy

mrcreosote said:


> .....by manufacturers trying to limit legal liability.
> 
> So long as you use a solid spacer the right length, and not the individual spacers supplied, there is no reason you can't have a 6cm stack height.
> 
> remember, larger diameter tubes are stronger than smaller diameter tubes. Adding a solid spacer, you are increasing the effective diameter of the fork steerer.


As an engineer with years of experience with similar applications, I can assure you that there is a limit to how many headset spacers you should have.... I'm certain that manufacturer's recommendations of max spacer heights are likely 'guesses', but I would definitely not say that you should exceed them by much. Spacers are NOT a structural, load bearing component. While a solid spacer may take some load off of the steer tube, it isn't structually bonded and does NOT effectively increase the thickness of the tube. There is a gap there, regardless of how small, and the tubes can move independantly of each other. Feel free to ignore the manufacturer's recommendations - but do so with caution!


----------



## DrDamage

This may be the wrong place to ask - but in general where are you guys getting all of the running gear to put these bikes together - just browsing around on the net - I'm seeing some incredibly high prices for things like brakes, cranks etc.


----------



## EMMANUEL151

Yep i agree don t go over 3CM or 1" of spacers Under the steem , it s not structurally safe to go aver and it s geting uggly too.


----------



## domos

*FM059 Brake Type (Caliper Mounts and Rotors)*

Sorry to be a pain fellas - 

I have ordered a new FM059 Cyclocross Disc Frame Set from DengFu, but would like to get disk brakes for it so that I can set it up when it arrives.

I can see from the frame that it is Post Mount (PM) - I only don't know what brake sizes would suit; (i.e. PM6 with 6" rotors as an example, such as used on the Dirty Disco). Does anyone here know what mount type and rotor size would work with the FM059, as I can't seem to get the info directly from DengFu at the moment, but would like to order them off Wiggle?

Thanks guys


----------



## ms6073

domos said:


> Does anyone here know what mount type and rotor size would work with the FM059, as I can't seem to get the info directly from DengFu at the moment, but would like to order them off Wiggle?


The FM059 has 130mm rear spacing but will accept a 135mm hub, the frame and fork have post mount caliper mounting, and you should be able to run 140mm rotors. I am running 160mm front and rear with Avid BB7 SL on one bike and Shimano CX75 on another.


----------



## wheeliedave

To my earlier frame size comments:

rbart4506 and ms6073 yes, I only would not want to hear of the frames owner being involved in an accident that can be prevented. The steerer tube snapping off at some, wait there never is a god time or place for that to happen.

mrcreosote, a solid spacer vs. many spacers will have no worthwhile bearing on the strength of the steerer tube. Never in all of the years of thread less fork manuals or any clinics have heard, read or seen any mention of this. From Alpha-q to Zoom and all forks in between. There has never been a mention of this theory. Thank you twiggy for helping us all understand why a solid spacer will not strengthen a steerer tube enough to allow for 50,60 or more of steerer tubes. 
It can be very unfortunate or difficult to take that some frames just do not fit some people. The OP mentions his reach. Yes, reach is a part of a good fit. But only that. I know have watched bicycle sales walk out the door when "this frame does not fit you" and "I could add 60mm. of spacers under the stem and it would fit." "however in good faith I will not" . Later I have seen that person out rocking 60mm+ of spacers. I can only shake my head. Sigh and hope they do not go down and blame the manufacture. 
Recently building an DI2 Chinese carbon frame set up the workmanship is impressive. Though these frames need to be shipped with the steerer tube already cut. Most if not all of big brands ship frameset with cut steerer tubes to prevent this. 
Now if somebody would make a carbon lugged frame like a Parlee with Bridgestone RB-1 geometry I'm so in!


----------



## mrcreosote

twiggy said:


> As an engineer with years of experience with similar applications, I can assure you that there is a limit to how many headset spacers you should have.... I'm certain that manufacturer's recommendations of max spacer heights are likely 'guesses', but I would definitely not say that you should exceed them by much. Spacers are NOT a structural, load bearing component. While a solid spacer may take some load off of the steer tube, it isn't structually bonded and does NOT effectively increase the thickness of the tube. There is a gap there, regardless of how small, and the tubes can move independantly of each other. Feel free to ignore the manufacturer's recommendations - but do so with caution!


If your steerer and spacer move independently, you don't have you stem clamped down enough. My stem is clamped (mechanically bonded?) down so that the stem, fork, spacer and bearings form a rigid system (allowing for movement of the bearings themselves). There is *no* movement in that system. The steerer tube *cannot* flex inside the spacer, because the spacer is under compression between the bottom face of stem and the top face of the upper bearing.

So what everyone is really concerned about is the steerer snapping at the top of the head tube. (The forces on the steerer above the spacers are the same regardless of length of the spacers and come only from from the force applied by the stem)

The end of the stem where the handlebar is is HB. The point where the stem clamps the steerer tube is ST. The point where the steerer tube exits the head tube is HT. So a force applied at HB is transferred through the stem and the steerer tube to create a force moment about HT. But by the laws of equivalence, that force moment is the same as a force applied at HB along the hypotenuse of the triangle HB-ST-HT. (If you don't believe me, I have these great cranks to sell you Z Torque > Home)

Lets for the sake of argument say we have a 110mm, 0 degree stem, 3cm in diameter. If you have 4cm of spacer, for simplicity we can say the forces go through the centreline of the stem, so you have force applied 5.5cm above the top of the head tube. The forces at the top of of the head tube then are the same as of we had a lever connect directly along HT-HB of sqroot(11x11 + 5.5x5.5) = 12.3cm. If we have 6cm stack of spacers, this changes the equation to being equivalent to a lever of length 13.3cm - an increase of 8%. At the same time, if we went from a 110mm stem to a 120mm stem, but kept the 4cm stack, we get an equivalence of 13.2cm or 7%. But no-one says you shouldn't have a 120mm stem. And that doesn't even account for the difference between resting on the handlebar tops vs on the hoods or the drops

I am happy to be corrected, but with some actual numbers, and not just hand waving and FUD.


----------



## mrcreosote

wheeliedave said:


> mrcreosote, a solid spacer vs. many spacers will have no worthwhile bearing on the strength of the steerer tube.


Which is easier to bend? A slinky spring, or a solid tube the same thickness and diameter? Separate spacers are inherently weaker because as a stack they have no tensile strength to resist bending. A solid spacer will not bend, therefore reinforcing and supporting the steerer tube. Compression forces at the front of the spacer are transferred down through the bearing to the head tube, supporting the steerer tube.

I am pretty sure if you put a smaller tube inside a larger tube of the same material with the same wall thickness, and try to bend the smaller tube, it will bend where it exits the larger tube, before the larger tube bends.

c.f. aluminium frame makers went with larger-diameter, thinner-walled, tubes, and the frames were *stronger*, despite the thinner tube walls


----------



## wheeliedave

mrcreosote. My last comment on your idea of spacers and strength. Three points. 
1)If your idea is correct, why do all fork manufactures have a limit on the number of spacers under the stem. To name a few bicycle companies Giant, Cervelo, Trek and on and on. Have limits for the number of spacers under a stem. 
2) Having seen many broken steerer tubes they do not break under the spacer(s). The break will occur where there is no spacer, at the upper headset bearing race. The part of te system that actual has a mechanical contact with the steerer tube. This spot is a fulcrum or pivot of sorts. Things break where they are weakest. No amount of any type of spacers can strengthen this area. 
3)Please anyone reading this think about what you are doing and the consequences of your actions. When your steerer breaks it will not happen while you are tooling down the road at 11mph. Instead when you hit that bump on a descent at 35 mph. You will go down, crash hard. If you are very lucky you cuts and scrapes will heal all of your teeth will remain. Then you only need a new fork, probably some cables and housing. If you are lucky you might find that big spacer that was holding it all together.


----------



## mrcreosote

wheeliedave said:


> mrcreosote. My last comment on your idea of spacers and strength. Three points.
> 1)If your idea is correct, why do all fork manufactures have a limit on the number of spacers under the stem. To name a few bicycle companies Giant, Cervelo, Trek and on and on. Have limits for the number of spacers under a stem.
> 2) Having seen many broken steerer tubes they do not break under the spacer(s). The break will occur where there is no spacer, at the upper headset bearing race. The part of te system that actual has a mechanical contact with the steerer tube. This spot is a fulcrum or pivot of sorts. Things break where they are weakest. No amount of any type of spacers can strengthen this area.
> 3)Please anyone reading this think about what you are doing and the consequences of your actions. When your steerer breaks it will not happen while you are tooling down the road at 11mph. Instead when you hit that bump on a descent at 35 mph. You will go down, crash hard. If you are very lucky you cuts and scrapes will heal all of your teeth will remain. Then you only need a new fork, probably some cables and housing. If you are lucky you might find that big spacer that was holding it all together.


1) limiting legal liability - and it is the distance they specify, not number of spacers. Maybe because they only supply their forks with multiple small spacers an they know it is more dangerous that way? If they have so little tolerance for going above that distance, probably best to avoid them anyway. Maybe they should look at how carbon seat posts are made. They seem to cope, and with a lot more weight to carry. And why don't they specify maximum stem lengths? 130mm stem? Asking for trouble......
'Give me a fulcrum, and a lever long enough....' and all that.

2). Agreed on where it is most likely to break. However, if you have 1x4cm spacer, the only point of weakness is the above and below the spacer. Steerers break there because the steerer has to provide all the tensile strength wherever there is a join in the outer supporting structure. If you have 4x1cm spacers, you have an additional point of weakness (and a pivot point) between every spacer. But with a hit big enough, the fork will break regardless. 

Just on you comment about 'mechanical contact', surely the loads in the whole system are: Fork Crown - Fork Crown Race - Lower Bearing - Lower head tube - upper head tube - upper bearing - upper bearing race - spacers - stem. The steerer tube is there to give the stem something to clamp to, to keep the rest of the parts together. The failure is not because of the 'mechanical contact' of the bearing race. It is because there is a point of weakness in the outer structure. 

Just out of interest, where have you seen these 'many broken steerer tubes'? (Excluding all the ones that prompted a manufacturer recall a few years ago) And how much of a hit did it really take to break them?

3) Well I guess you would rather have a slinky, than a solid piece of tubing. And with your 4x1cm spacers you can get a nice wide-radius bend in your steerer tube before it snaps.

Finally, do you have any empirical evidence to back up your statements, or is it just more hand-waving?


----------



## mrcreosote

wheeliedave said:


> If you are lucky you might find that big spacer that was holding it all together.


And FWIW, I changed to a single carbon spacer after my LBS found that one of the small, metal spacers supplied with my bike had shifted slightly and was starting to cut into the carbon steerer tube.


----------



## Assassin Elite

First time poster. 

I am planning on building, with the help of my LBS, my 11-year old son a fast bike. We're in San Diego, birthplace of triathlons and he's on a junior triathlon team.

Reading a bunch of postings, I think I have settled on ordering a 2013 VB-R13 3K weave through VeloBuild size 46cm along with seatpost and Neco headset. Because of his small size, I plan on building his bike with a very short stem, i.e., Ritchey WCS 4-Axis 31.8 Stem 60mm, as well as Ritchey Pro Biomax 36cm handlebars.

I will add a Shimano Ultegra groupset (gray), but looking at the other threads, it's very hard to find a deal on bike components.

I was going to purchase a carbon fiber wheelset from China, but I have decided to buy a Planet X 52mm Carbon Clincher Wheelset for $529.99 with free shipping (based in Portland, Oregon USA).

I have a few questions:

1. Should I purchase one or two additional derailleur hangers?
2. Is the difference between the two seatposts offered being one is carbon and the other alloy?
3. Does the factory do a good job on paint jobs with customized logos, i.e. Assassin Elite?

Any advice for a rookie bike putter togetherer?


----------



## dr.baig

1. yes, yes you should, there have been incidents with broken hangers.
2. dont know. others should be able to help here.
3. Dont expect premium quality, for 50$ or whatever they charge these days. You wont get top of the line paintjob. Expect some imperfections and I have heard of dust particles underneath the paint at keen inspection. Nothing major but dont expect quality finish.


----------



## meerkite

*Headset and BB*

Hi,

Thanks to this thread I am nearly ready to pull the trigger on a FM098 size 49, and a set of 50/60mm clinchers, planning on building it up on a Campy Athena groupset. (was going to go Ultegra, but the campy groupo looks good.) Anyways, 2 questions

1. I will be building this bike myself, and have worked on my mtb alot, and have bike tools, but will I need a Headset facing/reaming tool? and a Headset press for the FM098? I can get a press for a few $$, but the facing tool is nearly $500. Taking to a LBS for headset setting is not an option unfortunately. Will the frame need a headset facing/reaming? Also is the BB faces good to go also? Any tips on setting the headset?

2. Is it best to get a naked frame? (no paint) so I can check it out for defects? (Planning on getting a FM098 from Deng Fu.)Or can I get them to paint it up. Its only $63 for a paint job,

Any information appreciated.


----------



## meerkite

*Campy BB30*

Will the Campy power torque BB30 68x42 or 68x46 fit with a FM098 and a Campy Athena 170m Compact crank?

Any ideas?

Anyone build a FM098 with campy athena? What BB did you use?


----------



## BlingMyBike.com.au

A lot of Chinese CF frames around that looks "similar" to some of the bikes from the big brands, but are there companies that are doing "similar" Al frames? I guess there isn't the money in Al bikes anymore.
What Chinese factories do good Al frames that will sell to the public??


----------



## kbfore

*buy it big*



Assassin Elite said:


> First time poster.
> 
> I am planning on building, with the help of my LBS, my 11-year old son a fast bike. We're in San Diego, birthplace of triathlons and he's on a junior triathlon team.
> 
> Reading a bunch of postings, I think I have settled on ordering a 2013 VB-R13 3K weave through VeloBuild size 46cm along with seatpost and Neco headset. Because of his small size, I plan on building his bike with a very short stem, i.e., Ritchey WCS 4-Axis 31.8 Stem 60mm, as well as Ritchey Pro Biomax 36cm handlebars.
> 
> I will add a Shimano Ultegra groupset (gray), but looking at the other threads, it's very hard to find a deal on bike components.
> 
> I was going to purchase a carbon fiber wheelset from China, but I have decided to buy a Planet X 52mm Carbon Clincher Wheelset for $529.99 with free shipping (based in Portland, Oregon USA).
> 
> I have a few questions:
> 
> 1. Should I purchase one or two additional derailleur hangers?
> 2. Is the difference between the two seatposts offered being one is carbon and the other alloy?
> 3. Does the factory do a good job on paint jobs with customized logos, i.e. Assassin Elite?
> 
> Any advice for a rookie bike putter togetherer?


I would buy a frame that is just a little big. He will quickly grow out of it at 11 years old. Buy on stem that is longer so you can use that as he grows. 

Good luck on the build. It takes patience.


----------



## Seoige

meerkite said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks to this
> 
> 1. I will be building this bike myself, and have worked on my mtb alot, and have bike tools, but will I need a Headset facing/reaming tool? and a Headset press for the FM098? I can get a press for a few $$, but the facing tool is nearly $500. Taking to a LBS for headset setting is not an option unfortunately. Will the frame need a headset facing/reaming? Also is the BB faces good to go also? Any tips on setting the headset?
> 
> 2. Is it best to get a naked frame? (no paint) so I can check it out for defects? (Planning on getting a FM098 from Deng Fu.)Or can I get them to paint it up. Its only $63 for a paint job,
> 
> Any information appreciated.


This is course will depend on the quality of the frame but from my experience no reaming tool is necessary. In fact whilst I bought a makeshift upper and lower bearing tool the only thing I really needed was and 1.5 '' short piece of pvc plumbing pipe. lt all went together surprisingly smoothly. I did read the park tool pdf Park Tool Co. » ParkTool Blog » Fork Steering Column Length and Sizing but it is simply for guidance. I bought a basic tool kit from CRC and it had every tool that I needed to transfer parts. Small tub or lithium grease, carbon paste and a small dremmel accessory kit (5 euros) and you are good to go.

I would not buy a naked frame because you simply could not buy the paint for 63$ let alone the effort if takes to subsequently paint the frame or tools required. As for the quality, I found it to be extremely good. Surprising how much smoother my ride is compared to aluminium.


----------



## maxxevv

meerkite said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks to this thread I am nearly ready to pull the trigger on a FM098 size 49, and a set of 50/60mm clinchers, planning on building it up on a Campy Athena groupset. (was going to go Ultegra, but the campy groupo looks good.) Anyways, 2 questions
> 
> 1. I will be building this bike myself, and have worked on my mtb alot, and have bike tools, but will I need a Headset facing/reaming tool? and a Headset press for the FM098? I can get a press for a few $$, but the facing tool is nearly $500. Taking to a LBS for headset setting is not an option unfortunately. Will the frame need a headset facing/reaming? Also is the BB faces good to go also? Any tips on setting the headset?
> 
> 2. Is it best to get a naked frame? (no paint) so I can check it out for defects? (Planning on getting a FM098 from Deng Fu.)Or can I get them to paint it up. Its only $63 for a paint job,
> 
> Any information appreciated.


From what I've tried, not the FM098 but the WS02, basically the reamer and headset press are not necessary. The popular frames like the FM098 are popular for a reason and that is that they are of pretty good quality and rides well with very minor issues ( think the vast majority are set up with negligible issues). 

As meerkite pointed out, the only special thing you need is a 1.5" internal diameter PVC with maybe a 1/6" or 1/8" wall thickness that's about 1.5 foot long. That's purely for ramming the headset bearing crown race down. 

If you're running Athena, think you'll need a size 12 allen key with a very long lever arm or one that attaches to a 1/2" or 3/8" ratchet arm. 

And maybe a few pieces of 200 and 400 grade sandpaper in case the bearing races have excess paint/lacquer on them. 

Other common things might include some copper grease ( any decent automotive/grease supplier would have them) for the BSA bottom bracket threads and the power torque splines. ( They are an absolute pain to remove ... even with the specialty tools as I've seen one case of it completely seizing). 

And perhaps a cable cutter if you do not have one. 
With a bit of patience and minimal skill, a good hacksaw (fresh blade though) will be enough to cut the fork steerer. If you're willing to spend, perhaps get a cutting guide for it as its not an expensive tool. 

Not really a lot into it. Key thing is : Patience when building.


----------



## TehYoyo

DrDamage said:


> This may be the wrong place to ask - but in general where are you guys getting all of the running gear to put these bikes together - just browsing around on the net - I'm seeing some incredibly high prices for things like brakes, cranks etc.


Microshift groupset is cheap and deals of the week, etc.

Also, a lot of people use the money saved by buying Chinese and use it on a nice groupset - that and wheels tends to be the heaviest part, anyways.


----------



## persondude27

DrDamage said:


> This may be the wrong place to ask - but in general where are you guys getting all of the running gear to put these bikes together - just browsing around on the net - I'm seeing some incredibly high prices for things like brakes, cranks etc.


I built mine with 100% Craigslist and forums classifieds (like on here). It ended up being about $1,550 all said and done - I threw an extra couple hundred in there to swap out exactly the parts I wanted (compact handlebars, longer stem, different seatpost). Occasionally, deals of the century will pop up - ie, I found a complete DA7800 groupset for $250 on Craigslist this week. Going straight onto pops's bike!

Edit: D'oh! I also used Fleabay. I got a pair of FSA Omega Compact handlebars for $28 shipped, as well as a new Rival crank for $100.


----------



## Assassin Elite

I pulled the trigger on a Chinarello Dogma 65.1 Think2 BOB through Cycling Yong and a 38/50mm clincher wheelset through a Velobuild group buy.

Crossing my fingers.


----------



## Radial

Looking for an opinion on the AC053 (Scott Foil clone) from Miracle Trade. Anyone got one?

I've enjoyed reading the threads on Chinese frames but info on this frame seems quite limited. I gather that some frame sizes seem to suffer from problems with the seat post clamp not holding the seat post firmly in place.

Built a couple of bikes but this would be my first experience with a Chinese frame. Seriously considering a purchase so opinions from owners would be very welcome.


----------



## Radial

Think I posted this in wrong place so if it's ok I'll post it again.

Looking for an opinion on the AC053 (Scott Foil clone) from Miracle Trade. Anyone got one?

I've enjoyed reading the threads on Chinese frames but info on this frame seems quite limited. I gather that some frame sizes seem to suffer from problems with the seat post clamp not holding the seat post firmly in place.

Built a couple of bikes but this would be my first experience with a Chinese frame. Seriously considering a purchase so opinions from owners would be very welcome.


----------



## maximue

I've read trough various chinese carbon threads and figured out I'll go either with an FM015 or an FM029. Now I'm a bit insecure about what model to get. I really like the more 'classic' look of the FM015 but I'm a bit concerned as the the FM015s toptube is about 0.62 inches shorter than on my actual frame that feels about right. The difference between my actual frames top tube and the FM29 is only 0.4'. At 33,4' I have quite a short inseam for my height (15 ft. 5 in.) so I feel a longer tob tube would be better for me ... could anyone (probably the same height/inseam?) give me a hint what frame to get or has experience with the differences? All I found in the threads is that the FM015 is more "race oriented" but I'm not sure what to exactly make of this ...


----------



## Maglore

Radial said:


> Looking for an opinion on the AC053 (Scott Foil clone) from Miracle Trade. Anyone got one?


I'm very interested in the MC053/AC053 frame too. General concensus is that it's very stiff and slightly unforgiving, but goes like stink. Just like a Scott Foil in fact.


----------



## Radial

Maglore said:


> I'm very interested in the MC053/AC053 frame too. General concensus is that it's very stiff and slightly unforgiving, but goes like stink. Just like a Scott Foil in fact.


I'd heard that about the Foil alright, but wasn't sure if the Chinese variant had the same characteristics. Hope it does, it would be a fun frame to ride. I think it's a fantastic looking frame also, looked a the 015 but personally didn't like the very narrow seatstays, although I gather it's a great frame.

Would welcome any MC/AC053 owners views.


----------



## fogliettaz

My latest build, a Hong Fu FM066 55cm weighing in @ 6.5 kilos
View attachment 276451


----------



## fogliettaz

My latest build, a Hong Fu FM066 55cm weighing in @ 6.5 kilos
View attachment 276451


----------



## turbogrover

twiggy said:


> As an engineer with years of experience with similar applications, I can assure you that there is a limit to how many headset spacers you should have.... I'm certain that manufacturer's recommendations of max spacer heights are likely 'guesses', but I would definitely not say that you should exceed them by much. Spacers are NOT a structural, load bearing component. While a solid spacer may take some load off of the steer tube, it isn't structually bonded and does NOT effectively increase the thickness of the tube. There is a gap there, regardless of how small, and the tubes can move independantly of each other. Feel free to ignore the manufacturer's recommendations - but do so with caution!


This is correct info. Don't just ignore it as hysterical handwaving.
The farther away the stem is from the top bearing of the headset, the more stress and flex is translated into the unsupported steerer tube. The spacer does almost nothing to support the stem and bars. It just keeps the headset tight, and it only does a marginal job of that. You can impart quite a bit of leverage by standing up to sprint, or even pedal up a steep hill. That flex is concentrated at the steerer tube and top bearing of the headset.

The biggest concern I have with all the sales of these generic frames, is all the inexperienced riders choosing and assembling their bikes, or outsourcing the build to others...


----------



## Crawf

Noice :thumbsup:



fogliettaz said:


> My latest build, a Hong Fu FM066 55cm weighing in @ 6.5 kilos
> View attachment 276451


----------



## persondude27

fogliettaz said:


> My latest build, a Hong Fu FM066 55cm weighing in @ 6.5 kilos
> View attachment 276451


BEEAUUUTTTTTEEEEFULLLL. 

Is that ekletrical shifting or mechanical? Please tell us more about the frame once your get a couple of rides in - any problems with the build, any quarqs in the frame?


----------



## fogliettaz

It has a Campagnolo Athena groupset on it but the frame will accept electrical gear shifting systems. No problems with the build other than 11 speed chains are harder to connect than 10 speed ones.


----------



## djrbikes

When you buy a knock off Chinese bike you are in essence buying stolen merchandise. They steal the designs from other manufacturers and build the bikes with unknown carbon. That is called receiving stolen property. To put it another way. How would you like it if you spotted your beloved bike that was stolen from your home at a local ride and heard the new owner bragging about buying it from some crack head on a street corner for $100. If you are buying these bikes that are direct copies of other companies' designs and R&D you are no better.


----------



## rbart4506

djrbikes said:


> When you buy a knock off Chinese bike you are in essence buying stolen merchandise. They steal the designs from other manufacturers and build the bikes with unknown carbon. That is called receiving stolen property. To put it another way. How would you like it if you spotted your beloved bike that was stolen from your home at a local ride and heard the new owner bragging about buying it from some crack head on a street corner for $100. If you are buying these bikes that are direct copies of other companies' designs and R&D you are no better.


Blah, blah, blah...

Stop painting us all with the same brush. Read the whole thread and see that a large number of people are riding Open Mold frames that are not knocks off, but just darn good value. And you know what, they ride just as well as your uber expensive Dogma...

Who knows, maybe even better...Depending on how big your engine is


----------



## dr.baig

There is alot more wrong with the world. Mass genocide, poverty, hunger, etc.
Counterfiet goods, not on top of the list buddy.


----------



## DanBell78

djrbikes said:


> How would you like it if you spotted your beloved bike that was stolen from your home at a local ride and heard the new owner bragging about buying it from some crack head on a street corner for $100.


To answer your question, I would be extremely happy to get my stolen bike back, and also glad to know not to hang out with a guy who is ok buying what is obviously stolen property. Although, the situation seems a little contrived, as most people wouldn't brag about buying a bike from a crack head. 

Thanks for posting! You've contributed a lot.


----------



## djrbikes

This is a forum about bikes not world problems. Chinese bike manufacturers steal intellectual property and then use different, lesser materials to build this bikes. If you are okay buying stolen property and riding a bike made of questionable materials, that's up to you. These are factors to consider before deciding on a bike. A better option than buying a Chinese frame would be to buy a used bike of known quality that you can check out in person. My guess is you can get a great bike for the price of a completed counterfiet, and have greater peace of mind and security.


----------



## djrbikes

I'm not judging you, I'm just pointing out what you are getting if you buy counterfeit designed bikes. I don't have a problem with generic. I used to ride Motobecanes, which are essentially open mold. I liked them, but they cut some corners on components like all manufacturers do to get to a pricepoint. Those bikes helped me get back into the sport until I was ready to upgrade, or in the case of the cyclocross bike, until the bike was run over by an angry SUV driver. And, I certainly agree its more about the engine.


----------



## wevergo

djrbikes said:


> When you buy a knock off Chinese bike you are in essence buying stolen merchandise. They steal the designs from other manufacturers and build the bikes with unknown carbon. That is called receiving stolen property. To put it another way. How would you like it if you spotted your beloved bike that was stolen from your home at a local ride and heard the new owner bragging about buying it from some crack head on a street corner for $100. If you are buying these bikes that are direct copies of other companies' designs and R&D you are no better.


Can you please go to another forum.
We discussed it so many times before, year after year.
Please do not start again to be the next moralist.

My *CHINESE* stolen Viper:


----------



## ms6073

djrbikes said:


> This is a forum about bikes not world problems.


And this thread is specifically directed at forum participants looking for information about purchasing open mold frames from Chinese companies and posts from consumers who have had issues or bad experiences with products sourced from China are encouraged.


----------



## slysop

DrDamage said:


> This may be the wrong place to ask - but in general where are you guys getting all of the running gear to put these bikes together - just browsing around on the net - I'm seeing some incredibly high prices for things like brakes, cranks etc.



I bought a full red group off ebay piece by piece. You can get good deals if you take your time.

Talk to some of your LBS and they seem to be able to hook me up for $1000 for a full red group. 

Red isn't the end all though. Force is a nice group as well that will save you hundreds but will still be a great group.


----------



## slysop

*CyclingYong : Working with Jennifer : key search vengeslysop

*What I have noticed : people who have not bought a bike from cycling yong seem to have a lot of negative things to say.

I have noticed from reading a lot of threads that people who have bought from them are pleased.

NOTE* All chinese carbon frames and frames that cost 3k from your LBS still need a little light touch up work with a dremel sometimes. So do not expect your frame to come fresh off the press and painted 100% perfect without a blemish or extra over spray etc.. that will not need some TLC.

I just bought a venge frame from CyclingYong and working with Jennifer. She answered all my question very well.
I did ask one question at a time and tried to be as clear as possible to make sure I did not confuse her, but she seemed to handle everything just fine. Maybe she is good at speaking english. 

She sent me photos of a venge they just made. Looked good. 
I am not sure if I am going to get burned or not but so far it is a pleasant experience. 
I got the 56cm frame and she said it will take 2 weeks to paint then she can ship it to me. I will post again with the same title so people can search for it. (vengeslysop)

If this goes well I am going to order a few other frames from them.

The only other bad report form cyclingyong is a guy whos front derailleur clip broke or something of that nature. Bad luck I guess. Hope he gets it all figured out.

I will make a new post with photos she sends me after they paint the frame and before they ship it. Then I will post again once I get it with photos, then again after I put all my parts on it. 

This way people may feel a little easier about buying frames from them. 

If I get burned I will post as well and write about my experience. 

So far it is A+ but I did just buy it today after speaking with Jennifer for a while and doing research.


----------



## brs1986

Dang you photo upload! Some day I will figure you out!


----------



## brs1986

I ride my flyxii carbon clinchers everyday and have never had a problem. I am between 180 and 185. I do know they have a weight restriction of 225 I think. But they are comfortable and fast wheels.

I will recommend flyxii. Received my 60mm carbon clinchers extremely fast (6 days). The boxx was in great shape and the contents were in the same great condition. Upon inspection the wheels showed little to no flaws. They spin up fast and maintain speed very well. They aren't the lightest but are still very fast and stiff wheels.

58cm dengfu fm015 
Flyxii 60mm carbon clincher
Rival front and rear 
Apex shifters
Apex brakes

Great budget build

View attachment 276639


View attachment 276640


----------



## horvatht

slysop said:


> *CyclingYong : Working with Jennifer : key search vengeslysop
> 
> *What I have noticed : people who have not bought a bike from cycling yong seem to have a lot of negative things to say.
> 
> I have noticed from reading a lot of threads that people who have bought from them are pleased.
> 
> NOTE* All chinese carbon frames and frames that cost 3k from your LBS still need a little light touch up work with a dremel sometimes. So do not expect your frame to come fresh off the press and painted 100% perfect without a blemish or extra over spray etc.. that will not need some TLC.
> 
> I just bought a venge frame from CyclingYong and working with Jennifer. She answered all my question very well.
> I did ask one question at a time and tried to be as clear as possible to make sure I did not confuse her, but she seemed to handle everything just fine. Maybe she is good at speaking english.
> 
> She sent me photos of a venge they just made. Looked good.
> I am not sure if I am going to get burned or not but so far it is a pleasant experience.
> I got the 56cm frame and she said it will take 2 weeks to paint then she can ship it to me. I will post again with the same title so people can search for it. (vengeslysop)
> 
> If this goes well I am going to order a few other frames from them.
> 
> The only other bad report form cyclingyong is a guy whos front derailleur clip broke or something of that nature. Bad luck I guess. Hope he gets it all figured out.
> 
> I will make a new post with photos she sends me after they paint the frame and before they ship it. Then I will post again once I get it with photos, then again after I put all my parts on it.
> 
> This way people may feel a little easier about buying frames from them.
> 
> If I get burned I will post as well and write about my experience.
> 
> So far it is A+ but I did just buy it today after speaking with Jennifer for a while and doing research.


I agree 100%
These China frames are great. I've had major brand bikes with far 
more issues Then Cyclingyong 
The weight is right on which would say the carbon process is proper. There were a couple paint issues. But I've seen and heard of allot worse on major brands.


----------



## Thanos

I noticed there is a discussion about CYCLING YONG. As I recently finished building my S5 Cervélo replica bought by them, I can say that I had no complaints whatsoever. Only issue was the sellers bad english, that created some short-lived missunderstandings, but otherwise just perfect.
ERMOKRATIS
View attachment 276692


----------



## DerHoggz

Anyone have experience with the FR-315 and seatpost extension? My saddle height is right at 80cm, and the geometry looks like it would put me on a 56. Problem is the seat tube is 500mm and the post is 300mm. What does the 300mm reference, to saddle clamp or where? I'm wondering how much I will have to work with in the frame. Is there a minimum insertion mark, or else what is a good rule of thumb?


----------



## beston

I don't have direct experience with the FR-315, but a 500mm seat tube on a seems shorter than normal.

Seat posts are usually measured from the bottom of the post to the clamp. Once again, 300mm is on the shorter side of seat posts. Are you sure it's only 300mm? Usually, the minimum insertion into the frame is 90mm.

Don't forget to include the height of the saddle when determining the max height that you can achieve. however, with the information that you have at them moment, it ain't gonna work!


----------



## DerHoggz

Yeah, 50cm is really short for a 56. One seller on ebay says the post is 350mm, all the others list 300. Saddle is maybe 4-5cm, if that, so no go there. The geometry is exactly what I am looking for, only problem is the limited saddle height as it seems.


----------



## beston

Check out the FM098. I've got one and couldn't be happier with the quality of the frame. the internal cable routing is simple and (most importantly) easy!

I got mine from the velobuild forums.

I haven't compared the geometry, but the FM098 seemed like pretty standard measurements (unlike the FR-315).


----------



## DerHoggz

I don't like the looks of the FM098, but otherwise that is basically the geometry I want. The only weird thing about the FR-315 is the short seat tube.


----------



## persondude27

DerHoggz said:


> I don't like the looks of the FM098, but otherwise that is basically the geometry I want. The only weird thing about the FR-315 is the short seat tube.


Hmmm... I found some pictures of a real one (FR-315 - Pedal Room) and my eyeball measuring tape says that the tube is in fact very, very short. I would believe FLYXI's measurements of 500mm...


----------



## kbfore

*P039 (LTK039) build complete*

Ok, I finally have it built
Below is what I ordered
Road Handlebars: IB-B21 
Carbon Spacer Set: Spacer Set 
Carbon Bottle Cage: Qty. 2 IP-BC4 
Custom Painting: Matte Black Color 
IP-039 Frame Sizes: 
IP039 Extra Derailleur Hanger: 1 Hanger 
SP4 Seat Post: SP4 Seat Post 31.6mm 
FSA Headset

Below are the components one the frame. I bought a new Chorus Crankset. The rest are transplants from my other bike.
Chorus 11 speed crankset
Super Record Shifters
Record Brakes
Super Record front and rear derailleurs

I finished the build yesterday and rode around my neighborhood for an hour and a half stopping to fit it when necessary. This is a very light frame and worth the money.

The only disappointment so far is the seatpost. My cheap allen key wold not turn the screw enough to tighten it and somewhat stripped the hex screw. As you can see I put my old one performance seatpost on the bike to ride today. I will have to go to Home Depot to get a replacement. It is a really nice carbon seatpost. It is tightened with a recessed bolt on one side and a hex screw on the other. I don't know if it was me and my cheap tools that caused the mishap, but it is a light quality seatpost. Both seatposts had to be cut in order to be used with this frame. Both frames bottomed out in the seattube. Look at the pics of the frame design and you will see why. Nothing a hacksaw or a local bike shop can't take care of. I took the seatpost apart and it was not greased and it had something blue on the bolt. Tocktite maybe?

If you go to the link below you will see one of my spacers do not match. The seller painted the spacers I ordered the same color as the frame, I just didn't order enough of them. When I get it cut it should not matter. They also painted the bottle cages and offered to paint the handlebars, but I was impatient and told them to mail it.

All the items I sent are top of the line. I am going on a longer ride tomorrow.
Check this thread for more pics VeloBuild.com Chinese Carbon Bike Frames Road Bikes, Mountain Bikes, Time Trial and Cyclo-cross bikes. eBay Sellers too.

View attachment 276952


----------



## DerHoggz

Stop right there. Get a torque wrench. You should NOT be able to strip a wrench if you are using the proper torque. You may have damaged the frame/post by overtightening. Use carbon grip paste if it is at proper torque to prevent slipping.


----------



## persondude27

DerHoggz said:


> Stop right there. Get a torque wrench. You should NOT be able to strip a wrench if you are using the proper torque. You may have damaged the frame/post by overtightening. Use carbon grip paste if it is at proper torque to prevent slipping.


I believe he may have gotten one of the less-than-perfect posts. Assuming that you are talking about the bolt that holds the saddle in place, I think the FM098 (that's the Venge 'replica'?) seatposts were pretty wanky for a while. They try to copy the Bontrager Race XXX Lite design. While I'm sure it works wonderfully for Bontrager, the Chinese copy, in my experience, is less than perfect. A lot of people here spent a lot of time working on it.

I bought a post that looks to be exactly the same, which is a copy of the Race XXX Lite. It is a great seatpost - stiff, good-looking, and UNBELIEVABLY light: something like 199 grams for 350mm. Unfortunately, any bump would cause my saddle to tilt, and by the end of the ride, the saddle would be all the way back.

End result is that I'm using a Ritchey seatpost. Some people tried to shim with aluminum, and I tried to replace the clamp (Trek stores sell them), but I had no luck. If that's the case, stripping the bolt is totally reasonable.

Anywho. Great build! Thanks for the info. The drop on those handlebars looks to be wonderful. How stiff are they? Do you have a weight for them? I'm not a weight weenie, but would definitely like something lighter than my 430g Ritchey and FSA setup... if it's almost as stiff.


----------



## DudeMtn

To the guy a few posts back whining about stealing/counterfeit etc. - piss off. Sounds to me like a guy that paid WAY too much for his rig or a shop owner who expects me to pay WAY too much for mine! When I get asked "man, what is that"? I say "it is a no name-open mold-carbon-frame from overseas that I pieced together and couldn't be any more stoked about. It's a Chinese rig from a co called Dengfu". They say "man looks sweet, what did it set you back"? I say "total of about $1,800 all in". They say "what? that is crazy". I say "yeah right? I know, it is". Period

You then see the wheels in their dome spinning wondering why in the hell they spent $6,000 on a bike. That is what I sepnt too but got a used snowmobile also 

Anyway, here is a pic of mine with the most recent iteration of color, components and finish. Cheers!

View attachment 277014


----------



## y2kota

DudeMtn said:


> To the guy a few posts back whining about stealing/counterfeit etc. - piss off. Sounds to me like a guy that paid WAY too much for his rig or a shop owner who expects me to pay WAY too much for mine! When I get asked "man, what is that"? I say "it is a no name-open mold-carbon-frame from overseas that I pieced together and couldn't be any more stoked about. It's a Chinese rig from a co called Dengfu". They say "man looks sweet, what did it set you back"? I say "total of about $1,800 all in". They say "what? that is crazy". I say "yeah right? I know, it is". Period
> 
> You then see the wheels in their dome spinning wondering why in the hell they spent $6,000 on a bike. That is what I sepnt too but got a used snowmobile also
> 
> Anyway, here is a pic of mine with the most recent iteration of color, components and finish. Cheers!
> 
> View attachment 277014


Man that's one crazy great looking ride


----------



## BhSimon

I love the look of the Iplay IP-008 over at VeloBuild, but I'm struggling to find any posts from people who've already built one. I've searched, but no results.

Anybody built one of these or have an opinion on that frame? The way the gear cables pass into the frame at the front is zexy. Lack of Di2/EPS support is a bummer, though. Perhaps something that Iplay might update in future. If life was perfectly sweet, they'd update at the same time as Campagnolo comes out with an internal battery mount option for EPS. Ah, dreams are great when you're poor, aren't they?


----------



## dr.baig

Yeah but I find the prices on velobuild inflated. Normally their prices are at least 50$ more than what you can get it for directly from the chinese vendors.

I mean the whole point of buying a chinese frame is to save money, isnt it ?


----------



## humpside

I wish I can say that I had the same good experience. Unfortunately, I am one of those buyers that had a horrible experience with CyclingYong. They made me pay shipping (both ways) for a replacement frame that broke on my first ride out during a climb. Which I am very fortunate of, because if it broke on my descent, I would have been seriously hurt. Nonetheless, upon receipt of my replacement frame (which took 4 months by the way), now it was visibly damaged in the box. It was so poorly packed with very little foam to prevent damage, that the chainstays cracked right by the bottom bracket. Again, I tried contacting Jennifer to get the issue resolved. This time, they accused me of lying and started calling me dumb/stupid/deaf/etc... I couldn't believe it! I did nothing absolutely wrong. I was trying to get what I paid for in undamaged condition. But due to the aweful and stressful experience that I had with them, I decided to not deal with them any longer. I figured I may have to spend another $180 to get another replacement frame which may come again damaged. Or I may not have confidence riding because of the poor craftsmanship. To me, it's worth the loss of the $$$ I've paid Cycling Yong, to not risk my life and health of riding such a poor quality bike frame. After paying for the frame, having my LBS put together and take apart the bike assembly, ship the frame to and from CyclingYong, I ended up spending more money than I should have. Now that I learned of this forum, I know I should have gone to more reputable vendors. Lesson learned.

I will honestly share my experience with Cycling Yong to members of this forum to educate them of the risks of purchasing from them. For those members where it worked out, I'm very glad to hear you did not have any complications. However, I do strongly encourage that you get your frame thoroughly and professionally inspected, as you wouldn't want your frame breaking on you during your ride.




slysop said:


> *CyclingYong : Working with Jennifer : key search vengeslysop
> 
> *What I have noticed : people who have not bought a bike from cycling yong seem to have a lot of negative things to say.
> 
> I have noticed from reading a lot of threads that people who have bought from them are pleased.
> 
> NOTE* All chinese carbon frames and frames that cost 3k from your LBS still need a little light touch up work with a dremel sometimes. So do not expect your frame to come fresh off the press and painted 100% perfect without a blemish or extra over spray etc.. that will not need some TLC.
> 
> I just bought a venge frame from CyclingYong and working with Jennifer. She answered all my question very well.
> I did ask one question at a time and tried to be as clear as possible to make sure I did not confuse her, but she seemed to handle everything just fine. Maybe she is good at speaking english.
> 
> She sent me photos of a venge they just made. Looked good.
> I am not sure if I am going to get burned or not but so far it is a pleasant experience.
> I got the 56cm frame and she said it will take 2 weeks to paint then she can ship it to me. I will post again with the same title so people can search for it. (vengeslysop)
> 
> If this goes well I am going to order a few other frames from them.
> 
> The only other bad report form cyclingyong is a guy whos front derailleur clip broke or something of that nature. Bad luck I guess. Hope he gets it all figured out.
> 
> I will make a new post with photos she sends me after they paint the frame and before they ship it. Then I will post again once I get it with photos, then again after I put all my parts on it.
> 
> This way people may feel a little easier about buying frames from them.
> 
> If I get burned I will post as well and write about my experience.
> 
> So far it is A+ but I did just buy it today after speaking with Jennifer for a while and doing research.


----------



## DudeMtn

y2kota said:


> Man that's one crazy great looking ride


Thanks y2kota. FMO15 from Dengfu. Great frame and ride quality. Sure there is a difference between Sram Red and my Shimano 5700 black groupo but this bike rides and handles like my friend(s) $4K and $5K rigs all day. My 50mm carbon clinchers cost me $280 - yes $280 and shipped to my house from Shenzhen China. The pro at my LBS told me they are from the old Zipp 404 mold. Now, they are not perfect but are true, fast and roll well. Crazy value for what I spent/got across the board.


----------



## ptsbike55

"Now, they are not perfect but are true, fast and roll well."
DudeMtn,
What do you mean by they are not perfect?


----------



## BhSimon

dr.baig said:


> Yeah but I find the prices on velobuild inflated. Normally their prices are at least 50$ more than what you can get it for directly from the chinese vendors.
> 
> I mean the whole point of buying a chinese frame is to save money, isnt it ?


Being poor, that's good to know.

I was really interested in whether anybody knew if this frame went by any other name and if they knew of any that had been built..


----------



## Bridgey

I have now bought 3 frames from Great Keen (Chinarello's). I had a problem with one of them and they are sending me a new frame without having to send the old one back. All I had to negotiate was to pay for postage for the new one ($90). I was happy with that. Would have cost a heap more to send the old one back from Australia. I've also heard that they've paid for repair costs in the people's own country if it isn't too expensive. In short they are good with their warranties and their bikes are great looking and ride much like the real product. One word of advice though, just don't call it a Pinarello. Change the name to something else. I called mine a Chinarello Mad Dog. Mates love it.


----------



## angelocnx

Warning if you are planning to buy a bike from cyclingyong! Bought one in october.. arrived on time but with the wrong headset. Took them 6 weeks to send me another haedset, again the wrong one. Then they promised to send me another one but i have been waiting for over two months now. 
So i do have a beautiful frame but i m still riding my 9 yr old TREK.
angelo


----------



## dr.baig

Yeah, very weird. Even with group buy option it comes out more expensive. I understand they help you with warranty and stuff if something goes wrong. But still you can get the frame cheaper directly from the vendor.

Oh and the forum is heavily moderated, you cant post unless a mod decides whether your post is appropriate. I asked why the price differences and it still hasnt been posted that was 4 days ago.

They have banned certain companies but that makes me think how much of it is to do with actual quality concerns and how much to keep the extra money they are pocketing on the hush hush.

However there are advantages to using their site though, so it is not all negative. 

Decide for yourself.


----------



## kbfore

I have seen Velobuild.com with competitive prices. The mod talks directly with the sellers and can communicate with them for you if needed. I just finished building a frame bought from there and it may have been cheaper on his site when I ordered. I am not sure if that is the case now. My seller was excited that I was using Velobuild. I actually got the frame two weeks sooner than usual. 

Of course any warranty is done thorough the site first (from what it seems from the posts).


----------



## dr.baig

kbfore said:


> I have seen Velobuild.com with competitive prices. The mod talks directly with the sellers and can communicate with them for you if needed. I just finished building a frame bought from there and it may have been cheaper on his site when I ordered. I am not sure if that is the case now. My seller was excited that I was using Velobuild. I actually got the frame two weeks sooner than usual.
> 
> Of course any warranty is done thorough the site first (from what it seems from the posts).


ill give an example.

they are doing the pinarello replica frame vbr something. frame and fork for 425, plus postage 80, plus seatpost 25, plus headset 15, plus hangers 8.

So in essence the total cost comes to about 560-70, when you can source the frame with all the above yourself for 490$.


----------



## JohnnyBotts

*Cannondale 1991 Pro Series 65cm?*

Can anyone tell me anything about this bike? "Pro Series" current value? Thanks


----------



## BhSimon

ptsbike55,

I think you have built using the frame that I am interested in, from Carbonal. The one where the cables enter the front of the frame? It's the same frame as on VeloBuild under Iplay IP-008, I think.

Can you tell me about your experience? How did the cable run go? Any other things worth looking out for?


----------



## ptsbike55

BhSimon,
That looks like the same frame. Mine is the Road Frame 2 from Carbonal. I love the frame, but the one thing i don't like is how the cables run. With all of those mounting in the front of the bike like that, it gets a little crowded. It still works fine though. I worked with Bryant when he was at Corbonal. He is now at I-Play. He is a good guy to work with.


----------



## ms6073

angelocnx said:


> arrived on time but with the wrong headset. Took them 6 weeks to send me another headset, again the wrong one. Then they promised to send me another one but i have been waiting for over two months now.


You are a lot more patient than I would be. I would suggest you stop waiting and simply source a new headset from a domestic online seller or better yet from a local bike shop so you can get the bike built up!


----------



## DudeMtn

ptsbike55 said:


> "Now, they are not perfect but are true, fast and roll well."
> DudeMtn,
> What do you mean by they are not perfect?


Good question. Finish primarily. The finish of the rear wheel is better than that of the front. The rear is flat and smooth/consistent while the front is different/patterned. Either finish on both would be fine but kind of strange that they are different. However, for that price I am surprised they are nice at all - and they are. Cheers.


----------



## KenRider

Hello fellow riders! 
I've got a few questions to ask, does anyone own a MC008 and the MC/FM015?
I plan to get either one from velobuild, which one is more preferred for a fast ride?


----------



## ptsbike55

ptsbike55,

I think you have built using the frame that I am interested in, from Carbonal. The one where the cables enter the front of the frame? It's the same frame as on VeloBuild under Iplay IP-008, I think.

Can you tell me about your experience? How did the cable run go? Any other things worth looking out for? 


Here are some pictures of my latest paint on the Road Frame 2.
View attachment 277192
View attachment 277193
View attachment 277194
View attachment 277195


----------



## FTR

Does this belong to someone here?
If so do you have the paint design that I could steal?


----------



## FTR

I could but I won't.
Thanks for your feedback.


----------



## Izarra

FTR said:


> Does this belong to someone here?
> If so do you have the paint design that I could steal?
> 
> I like that paint scheme also and a few months ago, i asked Dengfu if they could do it.
> Tony replied that Mathot is one of their client and they can't duplicate their design. He send me a proposal of a similar but different paint scheme.


----------



## alien4fish

Heres my "proto98" Nekked 
Full Ultegra
Spinergy Xaero Lites
FSA Carbon crankset 
carbon stem
carbon bars
iphone case
Fi'zi:k Arione saddle
Awsome bike, I love it!
best money I have spent in long time
View attachment 277340
View attachment 277341


----------



## alien4fish

wont seem to upload(figures)
lets try it again.....:mad2:they wont load I give up....:mad2:


----------



## Juke6961

*FM015 with a compact chainset*

Hi All, been lurking for a bit, before I pull the trigger on a FM015 from Dengfu, 
I want to be sure that a Campagnolo Veloce Copmpact 50/34 chainset will fit and the FD will be ok.
I have trawled through all the posts and can only find a couple of references to this subject which seem to be around the Sram Red FD not clearing the chain stay
Can anyone confirm that a compact is ok with the FM015............Thanks
By the way, I really like DudeMTN's Fm015

John


----------



## DudeMtn

pudntane said:


> sorry. i hope you weren't offended, FTR. i was just joshin' ya ;-)
> 
> in all honesty, i say chapeau to anybody that puts any amount of thought into their bike's visual appeal and resists that goth-like, skunk-works/stealth-fighter, "henry ford option"
> [*] so favored by this cult of the black matte "color scheme" (and i use the term "color scheme" loosely).
> 
> 
> [*] henry ford was once famously quoted as offering a "choice" of colors to car-buyers of the model-t era


That's great puddin'. Let's see a couple pics of your one of a kind creative genious rig.


----------



## FTR

pudntane said:


> i would. bike i'd like to be able to confidently say that i'm the only one in the "whole world" that has a bike like mine. you can bet, that no sooner than i post it here, copycats will most definately copycat it. case in point:
> 
> 
> 
> i see posts like that all over the web. and for designs that, IMHO, ain't all that impressive. not to my taste anyway. but again, to each his own.
> 
> true story: before i decided to have a custom paint job done on my frame, i scoured the frame seller's entire online presence. i mean on aliexpress.com, alibaba.com and dhgate.com. spent days looking at every frame and paint scheme they sell. beautiful frames. best prices out there. but every one of their paint schemes sucked bosons! that is THEE reason i decided to have them do a custom paint scheme for me.
> 
> long story short: after going back and forth for about 2 weeks with the frame seller on spec-ing my custom design (me sending them pictures showing what i wanted - them sending me back pictures, and so forth...), they sent me the graphic that their designer/painter mocked up showing what my paint scheme would be. they nailed it!
> 
> a couple weeks after that, i go through their site again, and guess what i see! a "NEW design for 2013..." frame painted very, very similar to my design! i sh*t you not! a coincidence? you tell me. i'll tell you, they copied my design. but i guess that's just what chinese frame sellers do best. so i'm not surprised.
> 
> so, sorry charlie ;-) i've learned my lesson.



That is one of the most retarded things I have read (today anyway).
So have you rattle canned your super dooper design so that nobody sees you riding it and copies it?


----------



## persondude27

pudntane said:


> i would. but i'd like to be able to confidently say that i'm the only one in the "whole world" that has a bike like mine. you can bet, that no sooner than i post it here, copycats will most definately copycat it. case in point:
> 
> 
> 
> i see posts like that all over the web. and for designs that, IMHO, ain't all that impressive. not to my taste anyway. but again, to each his own.
> 
> true story: before i decided to have a custom paint job done on my frame, i scoured the frame seller's entire online presence. i mean on aliexpress.com, alibaba.com and dhgate.com. spent days looking at every frame and paint scheme they sell. beautiful frames. best prices out there. but every one of their paint schemes sucked bosons! that is THEE reason i decided to have them do a custom paint scheme for me.
> 
> long story short: after going back and forth for about 2 weeks with the frame seller on spec-ing my custom design (me sending them pictures showing what i wanted - them sending me back pictures, and so forth...), they sent me the graphic that their designer/painter mocked up showing what my paint scheme would be. they nailed it!
> 
> a couple weeks after that, i go through their site again, and guess what i see! a "NEW design for 2013..." frame painted very, very similar to my design! i sh*t you not! a coincidence? you tell me. i'll tell you, they copied my design. but i guess that's just what chinese frame sellers do best. so i'm not surprised.
> 
> so, sorry charlie ;-) i've learned my lesson.


Wait, so you don't want to post your a picture of your bike because you want the only one like in it in the world?

But then Dengfu (assuming it's Dengfu, since I've seen those emails) copies it...

and now you won't show anyone your design?

For once, I agree with FTR...


----------



## FTR

persondude27 said:


> For once, I agree with FTR...


Awwwwwww shucks.


----------



## KenRider

Anybody able to get a reply from Hongfu within the last 12 hours? Sent them an email asking for pricing of the FM015, no luck


----------



## Coolhand

*Moderators Note*

Enough of the insults everyone, back on topic please.


----------



## KenRider

Lol! That would be funny! On a serious note, if they can't reply me soon, I may have to order through VeloBuild, which I do not prefer as I heard it is slightly more expensive.


----------



## AustinGeorge

Hi All,

I'm looking into building a carbon bike from china and am having a bit of trouble deciding between two sellers. Which are Hongfu and FLYXII.
I can find a lot of info on Hongfu and would drop the cash immediately if FLYXII wasn't >$100 cheaper.

The quotes are as below:

FLYXII (a_baygoods on eBay) and have quoted $525 for the following:
Fr-301 3K carbon matt frame 56cm 
Fork
Headset 
Seatpost clamp 
Stem ST005 100mm 
HB-013 Handlebar 42cm 
Seatpost - sp008
Shipping to UK

Hongfu quoted me $656.24 for the following:
FM015 55cm BSA 3K matte
FK007 Fork 
Headset 
Seatpost
HB002 420mm Handlebar
Stem
Spacers
Shipping to UK and paypal fee

Does anyone have any experience with this FR-303 frame? or with FLYXII in general? I can only find one or two solid resources that endorse FLYXII, but their eBay profile has positive feedback totaling into 5 figures!
Any direction would be appreciated 

Thanks,
Austin


----------



## hcarreathers

I can let you know later this week. I'm planning on ordering a frame from them in the next couple of months as well. I decided to go straight through their website and ordered a $15 saddle. I can say that they are very quick to respond to emails thus far. I was told that it should arrive this week and if not to contact him. What I didn't like is there is no tracking number. That makes me worried, but I'd rather lose $15 than $500.


----------



## mrswart

I'm jumping into the deep end here.

Bought a FM066SL through velobuild to replace a Cervelo R3 that is slightly too big for me and slightly too expensive to be racing. My goal is to have a *great* club ride bike and an *good* crit / racing bike. Hopefully this frame strikes that balance.

Interestingly enough, all of the reviews I have read to date are from people upgrading from alum / steel frames. I haven't found anyone 'downgrading'. Maybe that's a sign? We will see!


----------



## KenRider

mrswart said:


> I'm jumping into the deep end here.
> 
> Bought a FM066SL through velobuild to replace a Cervelo R3 that is slightly too big for me and slightly too expensive to be racing. My goal is to have a *great* club ride bike and an *good* crit / racing bike. Hopefully this frame strikes that balance.
> 
> Interestingly enough, all of the reviews I have read to date are from people upgrading from alum / steel frames. I haven't found anyone 'downgrading'. Maybe that's a sign? We will see!


Well do let us know how the purchase went through with velobuild! I may have to get a FM015 through them! And my God you're getting the frame I wanted. If only I had a larger budget! Do review the ride!


----------



## dr.baig

KenRider said:


> Well do let us know how the purchase went through with velobuild! I may have to get a FM015 through them! And my God you're getting the frame I wanted. If only I had a larger budget! Do review the ride!


If saving money is what you want to do then buying from velobuild is not the best option. Unless you want the assurance of their help when something goes wrong. But how can that be guaranteed when they dont even let you post on the forum without a mod approving it first.

So for instance you had to go vent about something that went wrong with your frame only for you to notice that it has been three days since you posted and you still cant see your topic or reply because it has not been approved. What do you do next ?

Either way buying a chinese frame is a risk you take. Or maybe it is not a risk since there are good reviews about the quality of these frames. Now if the quality is on par with something at a similar price point has not been argued yet, or it has and I havent paid much attention so I dont actually know. But that is a comparison which would bring some perspective to the price point vs value of these frames.

But in my case saving money and a vocational learning process of building a bicycle or rather assembly of different parts is why I will buy a chinese frame. 300£s is not a lot of money in the long scheme of things, however may still be too much for someone on a budget to lose.

I would check the previous page to see velobuild price comparisons. Wait, dont take my word for it. Do the comparison and research yourself and find out.


----------



## Juke6961

*FM015 and compact chainset*



Juke6961 said:


> Hi All, been lurking for a bit, before I pull the trigger on a FM015 from Dengfu,
> I want to be sure that a Campagnolo Veloce Copmpact 50/34 chainset will fit and the FD will be ok.
> I have trawled through all the posts and can only find a couple of references to this subject which seem to be around the Sram Red FD not clearing the chain stay
> Can anyone confirm that a compact is ok with the FM015............Thanks
> By the way, I really like DudeMTN's Fm015
> 
> John


Hi Guys, any comment on if a 55CM FM015 is ok with a compact chainset before I pull the trigger..............Thanks


----------



## beston

I don't have the FM015, so I can't comment directly on this frame. However, I don't see any reason to think that you would have a problem with a compact chainset.

Typically, the only time I've heard of issues with compact chainsets are when manufacurers misplace a braze on derailleur clamp too high on the seat tube. The FM015 doesn't have a braze on clamp. It's a standard round tube and the FD can be adjusted fairly freely.

*I do have one recommendation for you though*. Please mount your front derailleur using one of these carbon front derailleur clamps (and some carbon friction paste). You can find them on e-bay for ~$20. This will eliminate the chance that you will damage your seat tube from tightening a typical FD clamp. (...unfortunately, I have been a victim of this in the past)


----------



## persondude27

Juke6961 said:


> Hi Guys, any comment on if a 55CM FM015 is ok with a compact chainset before I pull the trigger..............Thanks


Going off of what beston says - mine is a standard sized crank, clamp-on derailleur, but I am relatively confident that a compact would work. There is a good 1.5 - 2" more below the bottom of the clamp before the tube starts to change shape. Mine is a 53.5 cm, though, so keep that in kind.

Also, his recommendation for a carbon clamp-on adapter is a good one. Aside from the reasons mentioned, it's relatively hard to find a 34.9 mm clamp-on FD on a budget. I got lucky, but broke that one (used the wrong type of connection pin and a chain snapped) and had a beast of a time trying to replace it in a hurry and on a budget.


----------



## AustinGeorge

Juke6961 said:


> Hi Guys, any comment on if a 55CM FM015 is ok with a compact chainset before I pull the trigger..............Thanks


Hi Juke,

Can i ask what you've been quoted for that frame? and where you're purchasing it from?

Thanks,
Austin


----------



## rbart4506

pudntane said:


> R-E-S-P-E-C-T!
> 
> ...a breath of fresh air amongst the choking smog of black matte|3k|12k weaves!


That is a nice bike, but white is a PITA! I have a white FM028 frame and I actually train and race the crap out of it so it doesn't look so pretty.

But then I've gotten way past the it's a jewel thing and fully realize the bike is the tool to my goals.

BTW, the new race frame is matte black with white lettering...don't mean to offend


----------



## Crappymonkey

It's been a while since I posted here. Winter hit and I've been on my trainer in front of the computer for the past couple months :cryin:

I ordered my FM098 from VB last fall and it was a bit cheaper than ordering direct from the manufacturer at the time. I don't know about the price now as I haven't been on that site since since my order 

I finally have all my parts (Shimano 105 build) and I'm bringing it all into the shop to be built up later today. I was going to do it myself but I've been working late every night and haven't had any time.

Here's something a little different from the matte black FM098 posse :thumbsup:


----------



## Crappymonkey

pudntane said:


> awsome paint job!
> 
> off-topic: is that a bass rig?


It's a guitar rig. VHT Fifty/ST head and Hiwatt 4x12. My bass rig is a Traynor Monobloc II on a Yokville 4x10 and SWR 1x15.


----------



## Juke6961

AustinGeorge said:


> Hi Juke,
> 
> Can i ask what you've been quoted for that frame? and where you're purchasing it from?
> 
> Thanks,
> Austin



Hi Austin, Both Dengfu and Hongfu have quoted $405 + $45 to paint it matt black,
probably go with Hongfu as I seem to have got a better response from them
Im thinking of ordering, frame, forks, wheels, bars, clamps, headsets and bottle cages so all in all close to $1,000 for the lot


----------



## AustinGeorge

Juke6961 said:


> Hi Austin, Both Dengfu and Hongfu have quoted $405 + $45 to paint it matt black,
> probably go with Hongfu as I seem to have got a better response from them
> Im thinking of ordering, frame, forks, wheels, bars, clamps, headsets and bottle cages so all in all close to $1,000 for the lot


Thanks for getting back to me. Sounds like you got quoted similar to what i had in my previous post.

Austin


----------



## tmmartins

Crappymonkey said:


> It's been a while since I posted here. Winter hit and I've been on my trainer in front of the computer for the past couple months :cryin:
> 
> I ordered my FM098 from VB last fall and it was a bit cheaper than ordering direct from the manufacturer at the time. I don't know about the price now as I haven't been on that site since since my order
> 
> I finally have all my parts (Shimano 105 build) and I'm bringing it all into the shop to be built up later today. I was going to do it myself but I've been working late every night and haven't had any time.
> 
> Here's something a little different from the matte black FM098 posse :thumbsup:


i chatted with you on the other site about our frame orders. I have finished my FM029 build but have not had it out yet. Here is a picture of it minus the bar tape. Thanks goes out to rbart4506 for putting it together.


----------



## maxxevv

mrswart said:


> Interestingly enough, all of the reviews I have read to date are from people upgrading from alum / steel frames. I haven't found anyone 'downgrading'. Maybe that's a sign? We will see!


Not really, I have had a long line of upper end bikes over the years. In the process of selling off my Colnago EPS as I've had the GotoBike WS02 for a good 4~5months on the road now. I have to say, I'm actually very happy with the bike. 

Ordered direct from them, in full UD gloss finish.


----------



## lof-london

Hello to everyone out there and thanks for all the advice and reviews. I've just received an FM029 or RB002B as carbon zone call it.
I ordered through carbonzone on eBay and paid with paypal. 
I didn't get a tracking number straight away but when I hadn't heard anything for over a week I checked up and got one straightaway and the tracking reported that it had already arrived in the UK. It then got delivered the next day. When I asked questions about the frame the answers came back straight away so the customer service side seemed pretty good. Though I pretty much accepted that if things went wrong i might well lose the money or end up with a heap of a frame. I looked at it as a gamble but one were the odds were more likely that it'd work out than not and one were the money involved wasn't too much.
The frame so far seems pretty good but haven't built it up yet completely. The (hopefully) only issue I've had is that the lower part of the steerer which the lower part of the headset goes around was not really finished - not machined to the right size or true round. It was too big to press fit the ring that the lower headset bearing sits on so I'm going to have to be a bit of sanding.
Not a massive issue but one I doubt you'd get on a name brand frame.
Otherwise so far so good.


----------



## tmmartins

pudntane said:


> that's a sharp looking bike you got there! i gather that since my search for "martins bikes" didn't turn up anything that looked like yours, that this is your own handywork! chapeau! did brazilian marco do your decals?


Thanks for the compliment. Yes decals done by Marco.


----------



## Bridgey

biketowork said:


> Hello,
> i have been reading these posts for quite awhile and decided to order frame and wheels set from Greatkeenbike. After about a month i received a package from them with only the frame. I contact Skald to find out about my wheels, but so far no respond.
> 
> Do they normally shipped frame and wheels together or separately?
> 
> Thanks


Yes this is correct, but usually the wheels turn up first. I have bought 3 frames from them and many of my mates have bought from them. They seem honest enough and even replaced on of my frames due to a warranty issue. 

I'm about to put down for GreatKeen Chinarello Graal time trial frame (Black on Black). Anyone had experience with them here? At 680 delivered, I think it is worth the risk.


----------



## ptsbike55

They are raised. Mine were not very thick, but they are not a water transfer that is paper thin.


----------



## ashmk2

the lower crown race thing has been covered a few times in this/these threads. cheapest way of seating it is just wit plastic tube and a good whackinn on floor... there is a pics a long while back of what happened to a dude who sanded his fork down so bearing would slide on and then rode happily out of his garage, off the kerb and his frok promptly snapped where he'd sanded it. these threads cover basically all pit/pratfalls of buying, building and owning these frames if you take time to look. mine have only ever broken coz i crashed em if that helps


----------



## tmmartins

pudntane said:


> yeah! he is the master! ain't he?
> 
> let me ask you this: are all of your decals nice and thin and lay flat under the clear coat? i mean totally smooth and flush with the surface of the frame? or are any of the decals a little on the "thick" side and appear a little "raised" under the clear coat? do you know what i mean?


The decals are raised but are good quality material. They are not under the clear coat. All decals are installed on top of the clear coat.


----------



## DudeMtn

Juke6961 said:


> Hi Guys, any comment on if a 55CM FM015 is ok with a compact chainset before I pull the trigger..............Thanks


Sorry for the late response Juke. I have the Dengfu FMO15 in the 58cm. I have a Shimano 105 5700 black groupo with compact double crank and it works great. Cheers.


----------



## ChevyDK

Hi. 
I bought a Great keen bike RFM301 and am having a little issue with fitting a Ultegra Di2 and a Rotor 3D+ crank with Rotor BB30 (BSA) bearings. 
The issue is that there is'nt sufficient clearence for the battery wire, so that it does'nt touch the axle. 
What would you do to fix this? 

I hope these pics clears what is going on:

View attachment 278010


View attachment 278011


View attachment 278012


I am wondering if it would matter if I machined out a groove where the cable could be glued into, or cut a groove all the way through the bottom end metal piece, where the cable would pass through (look at last pic).

Any comments or suggestions?


----------



## Merc

Crappymonkey said:


> It's been a while since I posted here. Winter hit and I've been on my trainer in front of the computer for the past couple months :cryin:
> 
> I ordered my FM098 from VB last fall and it was a bit cheaper than ordering direct from the manufacturer at the time. I don't know about the price now as I haven't been on that site since since my order
> 
> I finally have all my parts (Shimano 105 build) and I'm bringing it all into the shop to be built up later today. I was going to do it myself but I've been working late every night and haven't had any time.
> 
> Here's something a little different from the matte black FM098 posse :thumbsup:


Be sure to post pics of your bike when it is built.


----------



## turbogrover

ChevyDK said:


> Hi.
> I bought a Great keen bike RFM301 and am having a little issue with fitting a Ultegra Di2 and a Rotor 3D+ crank with Rotor BB30 (BSA) bearings.
> The issue is that there is'nt sufficient clearence for the battery wire, so that it does'nt touch the axle.
> What would you do to fix this?
> I am wondering if it would matter if I machined out a groove where the cable could be glued into, or cut a groove all the way through the bottom end metal piece, where the cable would pass through (look at last pic).
> 
> Any comments or suggestions?



Use a dremel tool to make a small groove that the wire will fit into snugly, and glue it in place.


----------



## Bridgey

turbogrover said:


> Use a dremel tool to make a small groove that the wire will fit into snugly, and glue it in place.


I'll 2nd that. Won't weaken BB at all. Can also look for a glue on mount that you can thread it through.


----------



## glepore

wouldn't it be easier to move the battery up a couple mm and drill a hole in the dt?


----------



## ChevyDK

glepore said:


> wouldn't it be easier to move the battery up a couple mm and drill a hole in the dt?


It would defo be easy to drill a new hole In the Carbon fiber dt, but would it weaken the dt? Only a 4mm hole needed.


----------



## glepore

No, the waterbottle holes are larger. Machining a groove in the bb would work as well, but seems rather difficult. There are holes all over the bike for cables etc, a tiny 4mm hole in the bb area would be fine.


----------



## Crappymonkey

Merc said:


> Be sure to post pics of your bike when it is built.


Just got it back from the shop. Going to fit the cleats to my shoes and head out for a ride


----------



## jonoir

*Cable routing problem*

Hi all 

I've had my fm039 for the last 10 months and untill now it's been great.

I rode the other day and mid ride lost the ability to shift on the FD - Shifter would still move but not the deraileur - I immediately assumed snapped cable or loose clamp.
It's neither as when i returned i rmoved the cable intact.

I went to thread a new cable and it just kept on feeding in to the frame but i could feel it gathering up inside the frame. 

I tried feeding it in through the exit hole - it feeds in about and inch or two then stops. 

I've tried clearing it out etc etc but no joy. 

I have now idea what the routing system looks like so don't know what the problem could be and short of cutting a hole in the frame and killing the bike I've run out of answers. 

Just wondering if any of you guys can help ?? PLEASE !


----------



## Bridgey

It sounds as if you forgot to put the plastic tube guide along your cable before pulling it out. A big no no. Won't hurt your frame to drill a small circular hole into the frame with a drill. I did to mine when I had a similar problem and used some good tape or sealant after. But the problem you will face is that you don't want to break the guides leading to the exit hole. This will effect your shifting quality (unless you get rid of them all together after this (What I had to do)
Try getting some thin copper wire or similar and clearing the blockage first and then try to feed that through. May take some time. You can also use some thin modelling carbon fibre tubes to guide through, but I found copper wire the best because if you do need to drill a small hole, you can get a magnetic tip screw driver or something similar to help guide the copper wire to the exit hole. Once through, get a plastic tube to go over the copper wire. Pull out the copper wire and then thread your new cable through. 

In saying this, I'm not sure what caused your FD to seize. Very weird.


----------



## arevuar

jonoir said:


> Hi all
> 
> I've had my fm039 for the last 10 months and untill now it's been great.
> 
> I rode the other day and mid ride lost the ability to shift on the FD - Shifter would still move but not the deraileur - I immediately assumed snapped cable or loose clamp.
> It's neither as when i returned i rmoved the cable intact.
> 
> I went to thread a new cable and it just kept on feeding in to the frame but i could feel it gathering up inside the frame.
> 
> I tried feeding it in through the exit hole - it feeds in about and inch or two then stops.
> 
> I've tried clearing it out etc etc but no joy.
> 
> I have now idea what the routing system looks like so don't know what the problem could be and short of cutting a hole in the frame and killing the bike I've run out of answers.
> 
> Just wondering if any of you guys can help ?? PLEASE !


I also had a problem with the front derailleur due to dirt. And using a cable for inner routing helped me.


----------



## ptsbike55

"It sounds as if you forgot to put the plastic tube guide along your cable before pulling it out. A big no no. Won't hurt your frame to drill a small circular hole into the frame with a drill". 

Before you go drilling holes in your frame, try this. Take out your fork and BB. On my frame you can see where the tubes are connected. You could probably reattach them using a hot glue gun. That is how mine are attached.


----------



## Alleywishes

Riding DI-2 and seeing shiny carbon had me aspiring to ride one off the showroom floor! I do know that the FM098 has the geometry of the SST I ride and drool over at performance. I've seen guys get great deals on almost everything included in their frame price. This will be my first experience putting together a bike and I am lucky in the fact that I have a hookup at my LBS as far as the getting things put together. 

I've riding a Gravity Avenue C for a season and it has been good to cut my teeth on but I want an upgrade. At the least I was figuring I could farm it for parts (?) or at least the wheels and spd's pedals. 

With this bike I just want something to be able to enjoy, not really concerned about weight nor pro level gear, I just want solid components. 

So my question for you guys with more knowledge on the subject, would I be able to get a frame and a decent group for under $1000? With a base of first hand knowledge of dealing with overseas carbon, collusion amongst us can only get the best price!


----------



## xcbarny

Does anyone have any experience with the FlyXii FR315?

Thinking of buying one, so would be good to hear how they ride.

FLYXI


----------



## BadgerEE

Anyone know of any of the CHN frame makers who make a size 61 frame? The only one I can find is the FM098 from Dengfu. Would love to get the famous-brand styles, but they are all too small. Thanks.


----------



## lof-london

Thanks for proper name for the crown race. I know what you mean by it being a tough fit but I took it to a good bike shop and there opinion was that it was too big for a tight fit - even though its meant to be "whacked down". There's certain tolerances that an interference fit should be within and this was beyond that to the point whacking it on would cause damage. It should also be truely round, basically it hasn't been machined with a facing tool at all, let alone machined intentionally larger.
I've been too busy with work to sort it out yet but next week I should have it together.


----------



## BadgerEE

Anyone know of any chinese frame makers that make a 61cm size? I can only find the FM098 from Dengfu. Thanks.


----------



## lof-london

ashmk2 said:


> the lower crown race thing has been covered a few times in this/these threads. cheapest way of seating it is just wit plastic tube and a good whackinn on floor... there is a pics a long while back of what happened to a dude who sanded his fork down so bearing would slide on and then rode happily out of his garage, off the kerb and his frok promptly snapped where he'd sanded it. these threads cover basically all pit/pratfalls of buying, building and owning these frames if you take time to look. mine have only ever broken coz i crashed em if that helps


Thanks for that - i just looked back through and read up about it. 
what i have is about 0.5mm excess on top of what would be considered normal for an interference fit. 
I'm going to have a close look now to see if it is just a thick top coat that is creating the excess - i'd only need to sand 0.25mm of each side of the steerer, though reading the previous posts sanding it doesn't sound so wise any more. I'm going to measure everything carefully and work out a plan that doesn't risk me introducing a stress riser and snapping the fork. i'll keep you posted.


----------



## FTR

lof-london said:


> Thanks for that - i just looked back through and read up about it.
> what i have is about 0.5mm excess on top of what would be considered normal for an interference fit.
> I'm going to have a close look now to see if it is just a thick top coat that is creating the excess - i'd only need to sand 0.25mm of each side of the steerer, though reading the previous posts sanding it doesn't sound so wise any more. I'm going to measure everything carefully and work out a plan that doesn't risk me introducing a stress riser and snapping the fork. i'll keep you posted.


Some have had success cutting the crown race so that it can stretch slightly.


----------



## DudeMtn

I just got back on my Dengfu FMO15 yesterday for the first ride of the season after another long winter. Within the first 3 seconds I was reminded of how much I dig this bike and why I spent the time building it up. I just can't say enough!


----------



## persondude27

mrswart said:


> I'm jumping into the deep end here.
> 
> Bought a FM066SL through velobuild to replace a Cervelo R3 that is slightly too big for me and slightly too expensive to be racing. My goal is to have a *great* club ride bike and an *good* crit / racing bike. Hopefully this frame strikes that balance.
> 
> Interestingly enough, all of the reviews I have read to date are from people upgrading from alum / steel frames. I haven't found anyone 'downgrading'. Maybe that's a sign? We will see!


Please let me know how the FM066SL works out for you - I have half an eye as it being my next bike.

To answer your observation, I am a downgrader. I rode a Cervelo R3 that was too big, an S2 that was perfect, and then bought an FM015. The FM015 outweighs them both by a lot, probably, but it is also stiffer than a brick. Very nice and twitchy. Excellent crit bike. Everyone raves about how stiff the R3 was, but it really wasn't any stiffer than the S2, and certainly nowhere near to the FM015. I'm VERY happy with the FM015 and would definitely buy again (in a different finish... cuz I ordered 12K instead of 3K).


----------



## visionz001

I am about to purchase the new fm029a frame from dengfu. The site says its di2 compatible, I'm assuming thats the only way it comes. This might be a dumb question but is it bad to use normal components on a frame made for di2?


----------



## visionz001

btw the fm029a looks exactly like the fm029 except there is a brazeon bracket for the derailleur and it is di2 compatible NEW CARBON ROAD FRAME FM029A COMPATIBLE WITH DI


----------



## lof-london

visionz001 said:


> I am about to purchase the new fm029a frame from dengfu. The site says its di2 compatible, I'm assuming thats the only way it comes. This might be a dumb question but is it bad to use normal components on a frame made for di2?


There is a FM029 (not with an a) - which is the one i've just started building up, if you're not using Di2 why risk getting one that might not have the right cable runs for normal components. 
I'm only guessing now, but as Di2 only runs an electric control cable to the rear mech there's a possibility the cable guides are optimised for di2 and therefore aren't straight line pulls that a normal cable would need.
on my fm029 the rear mech goes under the bottom bracket housing internally and pops out on the chain stay. Again I guess there's some piece to guide the cable around internally - a bit like the plastic bit on the bottom of a normal bottom bracket housing - and for di2 i doubt you need that. i'd check it out carefully first - I only have the normal 29 so can't say for the 29a but expect there's a reason its an 'a'


----------



## kbfore

BadgerEE said:


> Anyone know of any chinese frame makers that make a 61cm size? I can only find the FM098 from Dengfu. Thanks.


What size top tube?


----------



## mrswart

persondude27 said:


> Please let me know how the FM066SL works out for you - I have half an eye as it being my next bike.
> 
> To answer your observation, I am a downgrader.


Awesome to hear! I was strongly considering the 015 or even 029 because of the cost, but ended up going with the 066 to have more of an 'all day' bike. 

For an update on my frame, I am still waiting for delivery. It shipped out from China on Monday, so I will be expecting it next week. Racing starts this weekend, so I'm super anxious to get building!


----------



## visionz001

Ya that's what I was wondering. I wasn't sure if di2 had its own routing that was different from mechanic systems. I just wanted the fm029a because of the braze on adapter. But good thing I checked first


----------



## BadgerEE

kbfore said:


> What size top tube?


Looking for a top tube size around 600mm, can't seem to find any frames from CHN thi size.


----------



## jawadds

Visionz001, I have just built up a FM029 and it looks and feels great!! Only weighs 7.4kg with no real weight saving components fitted. I considered the A version before it was released. Whilst discussing requirements with Martina I asked if the FM029 had a brazeon front derailleur mount and she suggested the now A version. I decided not to go for the revised version as I had read a few reports about these type of mounts becoming detached, albeit not Dengfu frames. If your going to only use standard components and not upgrade to Di2 I would recommend the FM029 frame. If in doubt, Tony and Martina are very helpful and quick to respond to any queries Very efficient shipping too!! Had great service.


----------



## visionz001

jawadds said:


> Visionz001, I have just built up a FM029 and it looks and feels great!! Only weighs 7.4kg with no real weight saving components fitted. I considered the A version before it was released. Whilst discussing requirements with Martina I asked if the FM029 had a brazeon front derailleur mount and she suggested the now A version. I decided not to go for the revised version as I had read a few reports about these type of mounts becoming detached, albeit not Dengfu frames. If your going to only use standard components and not upgrade to Di2 I would recommend the FM029 frame. If in doubt, Tony and Martina are very helpful and quick to respond to any queries Very efficient shipping too!! Had great service.


Thanks for the information. I've been talking to lucky or Kathy but response times aren't so fast. It going to be my first build so I was worrying about the clamp derailleurs on carbon fiber. Although I have also seen a couple pictures of rivets coming off the braze on mounts on other frames


----------



## FTR

BadgerEE said:


> Looking for a top tube size around 600mm, can't seem to find any frames from CHN thi size.


FM098 comes in a 61cm, which has a 600mm ETT.


----------



## rbart4506

visionz001 said:


> Thanks for the information. I've been talking to lucky or Kathy but response times aren't so fast. It going to be my first build so I was worrying about the clamp derailleurs on carbon fiber. Although I have also seen a couple pictures of rivets coming off the braze on mounts on other frames


I've got two FM028s and two FM029s, all with a clamp on FD...No issues with the clamp and the carbon the carbon tubing...Only issue is remembering to have a clamp on hand before starting your build, oops!


----------



## jawadds

visionz001 said:


> Thanks for the information. I've been talking to lucky or Kathy but response times aren't so fast. It going to be my first build so I was worrying about the clamp derailleurs on carbon fiber. Although I have also seen a couple pictures of rivets coming off the braze on mounts on other frames


Rather than go with a traditional metal band mount I decided to go with carbon. As you can see from the pics the load is spread across a large surface area just in case. It was only marginally more expensive than a Shimano bracket.

This is what I have 

View attachment 278479


View attachment 278480


Ratio Bike Design - Bicycle Parts, Bicycle Accessories and Bicycle Components - industry leader in the manufacturing of bicycle components and accessories - Ratio Bike Design - Bicycle Parts, Bicycle Accessories and Bicycle Components - industry lead


----------



## jawadds

and before anyone comments on the gap between the chainset and FD, the chainset is elliptical... there is only a 2-3mm gap at the highest point....


----------



## beij

Looking for an ISP mast for 31.8mm od, any suggestions?


----------



## visionz001

jawadds said:


> Rather than go with a traditional metal band mount I decided to go with carbon. As you can see from the pics the load is spread across a large surface area just in case. It was only marginally more expensive than a Shimano bracket.
> 
> This is what I have
> 
> View attachment 278479
> 
> 
> View attachment 278480
> 
> 
> Ratio Bike Design - Bicycle Parts, Bicycle Accessories and Bicycle Components - industry leader in the manufacturing of bicycle components and accessories - Ratio Bike Design - Bicycle Parts, Bicycle Accessories and Bicycle Components - industry lead


The site doesn't have a price. BTW do clamp on derailleurs not come with a clamp?


----------



## jawadds

visionz001 said:


> The site doesn't have a price. BTW do clamp on derailleurs not come with a clamp?


I know the site doesn't have a price, wasn't sure where you live so didn't just want to direct you to a UK store website. Just do a Google and you will find a store or on eBay. I paid £22.99 in the UK.

Yes, clamp on derailleurs do come with an integrated clamp. The main reason I didn't go for a clamp-on style FD was to do with the potential point loading on the carbon frame and also when I upgrade I can move the FD across to my old hack / winter bike. The carbon clamp evenly and snugly spreads the load around the frame and also doesn't damage the paintwork, it is also very very light.

Just came back from another ride. Still can't get over how light, stiff and fast the bike is. Definitely recommend this frame!!


----------



## BadgerEE

FTR said:


> FM098 comes in a 61cm, which has a 600mm ETT.


Yes, the FM098 is the only one I could find that is 61cm. Also looking for other style frames around this size, any one know of any others?


----------



## FTR

I thought that the FM028 also came in a 60cm(?).


----------



## rbart4506

Having a slight issue with my FM069 TT frame build.

The bike is being built up for my wife and she has a Zipp sub9 disk that we planned on using with the bike, but there's clearance issue with the brakes. The rim's brake tracks do clear the pads. The brakes can not open wide enough to allow the disk wheel to fit in. A standard 21mm carbon tubular wheel fits, but it is tight. I am using the stock TRP brakes, but have replaced the stock alloy pads with carbon specific cork pads.

Has anyone run into a similar issue?

All I can think of doing is sanding the pads down...Any other ideas?


----------



## visionz001

Yep I decided to listen to people and ordered the fm029. Now I play the waiting game


----------



## Gjash

DudeMtn said:


> To the guy a few posts back whining about stealing/counterfeit etc. - piss off. Sounds to me like a guy that paid WAY too much for his rig or a shop owner who expects me to pay WAY too much for mine! When I get asked "man, what is that"? I say "it is a no name-open mold-carbon-frame from overseas that I pieced together and couldn't be any more stoked about. It's a Chinese rig from a co called Dengfu". They say "man looks sweet, what did it set you back"? I say "total of about $1,800 all in". They say "what? that is crazy". I say "yeah right? I know, it is". Period
> 
> You then see the wheels in their dome spinning wondering why in the hell they spent $6,000 on a bike. That is what I sepnt too but got a used snowmobile also
> 
> Anyway, here is a pic of mine with the most recent iteration of color, components and finish. Cheers!
> 
> View attachment 277014


What frame is this? Looks great!


----------



## visionz001

Looks like the fm028 to me


----------



## maxxevv

Its a FM015.


----------



## visionz001

Oh ya looking at it again it is GBE fm015. They look kinda similar


----------



## rich_boydo

Hi All,

First time post so go easy! Ordered a FM028 ISP from Carbonzone, along with saddle, handle bars and bottle cages on the 11/03/13 and the item seemed to be returned to them. After a few emails I get a replay saying:

"
Hello! My friend!
All the tracking number are yours. because each box can only contain 2 frames, so we should put them in 6 boxes.

Yours 
Jun Lee
"

I promptly replayed back saying that I did not order 6 frames. Thought I would be quite happy to get 12 frames, some of them even seem to have gone to Portugal!not the UK.

Have not had a reply in the last 3 days, but I am hopping that just because its been the weekend!

So my question is dose anyone have a good contact within Carbonzone who maybe able to help get my order sorted out!

I have a feeling not many people have used Carbonzone for this very reason!

Thanks,
Richard
-----
update: Just had a reply to say they are doing the order again! Lets hope that they get it right the 3rd time!


----------



## Maglore

I love this thread, but I wish there was a separate one for just solely for reviews of the various open mould frames.


----------



## funkyphil

i was going to guess you had zero gravity brakes. Same issues there too. Its not the bike, its the brakes. Grind down the pads or try to find some low profile pad holder$, but those are rare. It is a common issue with these kinds of brakes. Any 'regular' Shimano or Campy binders will work without issue.



rbart4506 said:


> Having a slight issue with my FM069 TT frame build.
> 
> The bike is being built up for my wife and she has a Zipp sub9 disk that we planned on using with the bike, but there's clearance issue with the brakes. The rim's brake tracks do clear the pads. The brakes can not open wide enough to allow the disk wheel to fit in. A standard 21mm carbon tubular wheel fits, but it is tight. I am using the stock TRP brakes, but have replaced the stock alloy pads with carbon specific cork pads.
> 
> Has anyone run into a similar issue?
> 
> All I can think of doing is sanding the pads down...Any other ideas?


----------



## rbart4506

funkyphil said:


> i was going to guess you had zero gravity brakes. Same issues there too. Its not the bike, its the brakes. Grind down the pads or try to find some low profile pad holder$, but those are rare. It is a common issue with these kinds of brakes. Any 'regular' Shimano or Campy binders will work without issue.


The bike uses TRP TTV brakes and the clearance issue is due to the frame. The pads can only open so far before they contact the chain stays. There is a slight cutout in the frame for this so the brakes can open to allow a wheel to pass through. There's no problem with a standard 21mm wide rim, a bit of a problem with a wider 23mm rim and major issues with a zipp disk that has a canted brake track with a width of 24mm at the middle (it gets wider ).

I got it figured out by removing the spacer washer, as stated in the TRP instructions, and using Shimano carbon pads that had been used on a few rides prior. The disk is in and it spins fine. I will sand down the NDS pad since it's still a bit tight for my liking. I know there will be some flexing in the disk when my wife is really laying down the power so I don't want an rubbing.

Another little point for anyone building these bikes is to make sure you have the FD housing coming out of BB bottom on the FD side. I didn't and basically had to strip the front end down to be able to re-run the housing. Not a huge issue, but just something I could have avoided if I had prior experience.


----------



## deepakvrao

visionz001 said:


> Yep I decided to listen to people and ordered the fm029. Now I play the waiting game


Where from. COuld you share the price too please?


----------



## Bridgey

rbart4506 said:


> The bike uses TRP TTV brakes and the clearance issue is due to the frame. The pads can only open so far before they contact the chain stays. There is a slight cutout in the frame for this so the brakes can open to allow a wheel to pass through. There's no problem with a standard 21mm wide rim, a bit of a problem with a wider 23mm rim and major issues with a zipp disk that has a canted brake track with a width of 24mm at the middle (it gets wider ).
> 
> I got it figured out by removing the spacer washer, as stated in the TRP instructions, and using Shimano carbon pads that had been used on a few rides prior. The disk is in and it spins fine. I will sand down the NDS pad since it's still a bit tight for my liking. I know there will be some flexing in the disk when my wife is really laying down the power so I don't want an rubbing.
> 
> Another little point for anyone building these bikes is to make sure you have the FD housing coming out of BB bottom on the FD side. I didn't and basically had to strip the front end down to be able to re-run the housing. Not a huge issue, but just something I could have avoided if I had prior experience.


I had a similar problem where my brake blocks were hitting my forks. I just added more washers to the front part so it moved the front brake forward and more clear of the forks. Can you do something similar? If so, you will probably need a longer bolt for the back though, as you will now have less threading.


----------



## visionz001

deepakvrao said:


> Where from. COuld you share the price too please?


I just bought mine off velobuild.com it ended up being $650 (including fees and shipping) for:

52cm FM029 (non-isp)
3 Color paint (Matte black and gloss blue) apparently matte black counts as two colors
neco headset
2 extra derailleur hangers
2 Carbon fiber bottle cages


----------



## deepakvrao

Thanks.

What size seat post and FD clamp is required for FM029?


----------



## deepakvrao

Spoke to Deng Fu, and they have my 54 cm BSA FM029 in stock. Have promised to ship as soon as I pay. Issue is I am leaving for France by 1st May. In your experiences, do you think it will reach in 2 weeks?


----------



## FTR

deepakvrao said:


> Spoke to Deng Fu, and they have my 54 cm BSA FM029 in stock. Have promised to ship as soon as I pay. Issue is I am leaving for France by 1st May. In your experiences, do you think it will reach in 2 weeks?


I have received frames within a week of them shipping.


----------



## deepakvrao

Thanks. What method of shipping do they use?


----------



## kbfore

*Ip039 (ltk039)*

I have finally finished with my IP039 (LTK039). Here are some pics and info. 
Below is what is new from Velobuild for around $795. 
Road Handlebars: IB-B21
Carbon Spacer Set: Spacer Set
Carbon Bottle Cage: Qty. 2 IP-BC4
Custom Painting: Matte Black Color
IP-039 Frame Sizes: 57CM
SP4 Seat Post: SP4 Seat Post 31.6mm
FSA Headset

Below are the components on the frame. I bought a new Chorus 11 Crankset. The rest are transplants from my other bike.
Chorus 11 speed crankset
Super Record Shifters
Record Brakes
Super Record front and rear derailleurs
Zonda Wheels

I added the stickers yesterday.

In case you are wondering my initials are KBF. The TT has a Punisher skull and "Ride to live, live to ride!". One of my favorite Twisted Sister songs. youtube.com/watch?v=617PA7VdIeY
(I know it is a motorcycle song)

I have added a white seat and adjusted the seatpost and and saddle tilt. 

View attachment 278819
View attachment 278820
View attachment 278821
View attachment 278822


----------



## oge

*FM015 front derailleur cable guide issue?*

Hi there!

After reading through the chinese carbon threads i finally pulled the trigger on a FM015 (BSA, non ISP) from Hongfu. I finally received the frame and forks today and after a quick inspection everything seemed fine regarding the frame. Except for one thing. I was under the impression that the front derailleur cable runs through the bottom bracket housing as it does in this picture:
https://aroundthecog.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/img_1772.jpg?w=225&h=300

I noticed my frame does have the hole needed to thread the cable through the bottom part but the top hole (as seen here:Hongfu FM015-ISP Weight | Flickr - Photo Sharing!) is missing. Upon closer inspection there seems to be some sort of spot in the clear-coat where the hole presumably should be which leaves me wondering if they have just forgotten to drill the hole at the factory. I sent an email to Hongfu regarding the issue and got an answer that there should be no hole which seems strange. Now my main question is, if the spot in the frame is the intended place for the hole, is it possible to drill a hole in the frame and fix the issue easily? I would have this done at the lbs of course. I hope the pics behind the link provide som help. What do you guys think? 

- Oscar

Pics can be found here: FM015 - a set on Flickr


----------



## KenRider

oge said:


> Hi there!
> 
> After reading through the chinese carbon threads i finally pulled the trigger on a FM015 (BSA, non ISP) from Hongfu. I finally received the frame and forks today and after a quick inspection everything seemed fine regarding the frame. Except for one thing. I was under the impression that the front derailleur cable runs through the bottom bracket housing as it does in this picture:
> https://aroundthecog.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/img_1772.jpg?w=225&h=300
> 
> I noticed my frame does have the hole needed to thread the cable through the bottom part but the top hole (as seen here:Hongfu FM015-ISP Weight | Flickr - Photo Sharing!) is missing. Upon closer inspection there seems to be some sort of spot in the clear-coat where the hole presumably should be which leaves me wondering if they have just forgotten to drill the hole at the factory. I sent an email to Hongfu regarding the issue and got an answer that there should be no hole which seems strange. Now my main question is, if the spot in the frame is the intended place for the hole, is it possible to drill a hole in the frame and fix the issue easily? I would have this done at the lbs of course. I hope the pics behind the link provide som help. What do you guys think?
> 
> - Oscar
> 
> Pics can be found here: FM015 - a set on Flickr


Forgive me, but I just ordered a FM015 also. Did they happen to say that you have to wait 45 days for your BSA non ISP fm015?


----------



## oge

When I ordered my frameset 17 days ago they had them in stock. The wait time could depend on the finishing and size of the frame, I ordered a size 55 with 3K glossy finish.


----------



## KenRider

oge said:


> When I ordered my frameset 17 days ago they had them in stock. The wait time could depend on the finishing and size of the frame, I ordered a size 55 with 3K glossy finish.


Oh! I just placed my order yesterday, pudding from hongfu says he will arrange everything! Now just the waiting game like everybody else. Since they said I have to wait 45days for nonISP I went for the ISP version. I hope you have your issue resolved! 
Cheers


----------



## FTR

deepakvrao said:


> Thanks. What method of shipping do they use?


It is express posted via their mail system which you can then track via your own postal system.


----------



## FTR

kbfore said:


> I have finally finished with my IP039 (LTK039). Here are some pics and info.
> Below is what is new from Velobuild for around $795.
> Road Handlebars: IB-B21
> Carbon Spacer Set: Spacer Set
> Carbon Bottle Cage: Qty. 2 IP-BC4
> Custom Painting: Matte Black Color
> IP-039 Frame Sizes: 57CM
> SP4 Seat Post: SP4 Seat Post 31.6mm
> FSA Headset
> 
> Below are the components on the frame. I bought a new Chorus 11 Crankset. The rest are transplants from my other bike.
> Chorus 11 speed crankset
> Super Record Shifters
> Record Brakes
> Super Record front and rear derailleurs
> Zonda Wheels
> 
> I added the stickers yesterday.
> 
> In case you are wondering my initials are KBF. The TT has a Punisher skull and "Ride to live, live to ride!". One of my favorite Twisted Sister songs. youtube.com/watch?v=617PA7VdIeY
> (I know it is a motorcycle song)
> 
> I have added a white seat and adjusted the seatpost and and saddle tilt.


Why is your seatpost backwards?


----------



## oge

oge said:


> Hi there!
> 
> After reading through the chinese carbon threads i finally pulled the trigger on a FM015 (BSA, non ISP) from Hongfu. I finally received the frame and forks today and after a quick inspection everything seemed fine regarding the frame. Except for one thing. I was under the impression that the front derailleur cable runs through the bottom bracket housing as it does in this picture:
> https://aroundthecog.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/img_1772.jpg?w=225&h=300
> 
> I noticed my frame does have the hole needed to thread the cable through the bottom part but the top hole (as seen here:Hongfu FM015-ISP Weight | Flickr - Photo Sharing!) is missing. Upon closer inspection there seems to be some sort of spot in the clear-coat where the hole presumably should be which leaves me wondering if they have just forgotten to drill the hole at the factory. I sent an email to Hongfu regarding the issue and got an answer that there should be no hole which seems strange. Now my main question is, if the spot in the frame is the intended place for the hole, is it possible to drill a hole in the frame and fix the issue easily? I would have this done at the lbs of course. I hope the pics behind the link provide som help. What do you guys think?
> 
> - Oscar
> 
> Pics can be found here: FM015 - a set on Flickr


I'll answer to myself. After e-mailing with Nancy from Hongfu she understood the situation and admitted that the upper hole is missing. Now my options are sending the frame back to China or fixing the problem at my lbs. Will be going for the latter. Does anyone know if there is a guide inside the frame which the fd cable runs through? If not this should be a relatively easy fix. Alternatively i could try routing the cable the outer route between the wheelstays if the clearance is big enough.


----------



## FTR

FM098 ordered.
Supposedly ready this week.


----------



## deepakvrao

Thinking of the FM029. Are there any issues with the internal cable routing? Should I go for the exposed cables one FM028?


----------



## cda 455

FTR said:


> FM098 ordered.
> Supposedly ready this week.


Keep us posted when you get!


I'm wondering about the seat tube around the seat post collar area.


----------



## FTR

cda 455 said:


> Keep us posted when you get!
> 
> 
> I'm wondering about the seat tube around the seat post collar area.


What will you .like to know?


----------



## cda 455

FTR said:


> What will you .like to know?


Have you looked at one in person yet?


It's a real good looking frame. 

I'm just wondering about the openings on the frame. Like the HT, ST, BB. How precise is the openings for the headset, BB, seat post and the collar. 

What did it cost you?


----------



## FTR

$644 including matte black paint and a couple of spare derailleur hangers.
I plan to get logo's done locally.
Having had previous frams from China I can assure you quality is good if you stick with the bigger players (Dengfu, Hongfu, etc).


----------



## rbart4506

deepakvrao said:


> Thinking of the FM029. Are there any issues with the internal cable routing? Should I go for the exposed cables one FM028?


No problem with the internal routing...

There are internal guides to build up is straight forward. On the stand shifting seems to be the same as on the FM028, I've got both...

I still haven't ridden the FM029 yet, but hopefully will this weekend...


----------



## cda 455

FTR said:


> $644 including matte black paint and a couple of spare derailleur hangers.
> I plan to get logo's done locally.
> Having had previous frams from China I can assure you quality is good if you stick with the bigger players (Dengfu, Hongfu, etc).


$644 Aussie dollars? Or U.S. dollars?


Did you order directly from Dengfu? I'm on their site on looking.

Thanks for the insight.


----------



## FTR

US directly from DENGFU.


----------



## cda 455

FTR said:


> US directly from DENGFU.


O.K.


Do you know what your frameset weigh?


----------



## FTR

Ummmmmmm.....it has not shipped yet, so no.


----------



## CracKinG DucK

Hi all,

I have bought a fm029 from dengfu

Overall the feeling is great, it's more comfort and confident to decends.

However one bad point is that the internal cabling is not that smooth and i experience a lag in rear shifting even i lub-ed my cable. And the headset dengfu forgot to ship me was not refunded after i requested for a week.

All in all, i recommend this frame over my focus izalco frame, more comfort and better handling, should be as steep as the old one too, just heavier (and the longer head tube and larger seat angle suits me more)


----------



## cda 455

CracKinG DucK said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have bought a fm029 from dengfu
> 
> Overall the feeling is great, it's more comfort and confident to decends.
> 
> However one bad point is that the internal cabling is not that smooth and i experience a lag in rear shifting even i lub-ed my cable. And the headset dengfu forgot to ship me was not refunded after i requested for a week.
> 
> All in all, i recommend this frame over my focus izalco frame, more comfort and better handling, should be as steep as the old one too, just heavier (and the longer head tube and larger seat angle suits me more)


Awesome! Thanks for the insight.


Can you poast pics of your ride?


----------



## CracKinG DucK

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7Eub9ul5qvlTk5ONWtpMkg0SDQ/edit?usp=sharing

It's the link for the pic


----------



## Swen6

*Rfm301*

I purchased a well known replica from Greatkeen, ordered 19th February and arrived the 10th of this month, not sure why the delay but once it was posted and I had my tracking reference, from collection to delivery was less than a week.


As a side not, really happy with the frame, it also has a 4 rivet Front Derailer mount.


----------



## deepakvrao

Thanks guys for all the help. 

Seriously thinking of the FM029 with the internal routing, and wanted to know what you guys use as an alternative to barrel adjusters. Inline ones? Any idea where I can get them? Does a pair come with a full Jagwire cabling kit?


----------



## deepakvrao

Andy STi said:


> Just wanted to throw up some pictures of my Miracle Bikes MC105 cross frame. Just received the frame last week so I haven't begun building it yet. I don't need it until September but I'm planning on finishing it soon so I can decided if I want to order another.
> 
> I ordered through email and everything went very well. The frame was packed expertly and the box was perfect upon arrival to Oregon.
> 
> The frame is a size 58 and weighs 1200gm (on my scale) with the rear hanger. The fork is 450gm. The bike will be race only and I can't wait to try it out.
> 
> Pardon the messy garage. Winter bike builds and ski waxing don't leave room for much else.


What happens if those white thingies for the inner cable routing come out? Is it possible to thread the cables?


----------



## rokh

xcbarny said:


> Does anyone have any experience with the FlyXii FR315?
> 
> Thinking of buying one, so would be good to hear how they ride.
> 
> FLYXI


Hello,

I have a bike built on this frameset, i purchased last august did around 5-6k kms on it since. It's fast, stiff, a bit harsh on bad roads. Looks very massive and durable also, have hit some serious potholes and still everything intact.

There were some minor issues with the build, seat post is a bit too small for the seat tube so had to use some aluminium from a beer can between, also the bolts and the headset that comes with it are pretty much crap (headset bearings fell into pieces after the first 1k kms, replaced it with a tepred ritchy pro drop in $20 price).

Purchased directly from flyxii (these frames were on ebay also, if you want extra protection), transaction was smooth and fast. I would say it's well worth the price


----------



## FTR

Anyone had any correspondence with Dengfu recently?
I cannot get a response to my emails.


----------



## deepakvrao

^^^

FTR,


Just got an e-mail.

From Kathy Jin at this e-mail Id: [email protected]


----------



## FTR

Thanks Deepak.


----------



## thedrivel

Has anyone had luck contacting Carbotec using the email address listed on their website? [email protected].


----------



## Crawf

FTR said:


> $644 including matte black paint and a couple of spare derailleur hangers.
> I plan to get logo's done locally.
> Having had previous frams from China I can assure you quality is good if you stick with the bigger players (Dengfu, Hongfu, etc).


Matte black paint (no visible carbon) or matte finish?


----------



## FTR

Crawf said:


> Matte black paint (no visible carbon) or matte finish?


Paint.


----------



## Crawf

I wish I hadn't. 
It's a royal pain in the backside to keep clean and the scratches show up very easily.


----------



## FTR

Oh well.
I will be putting a heap of protective tape on the underside of the down tube and on the top tube.
Hopefully that will protect it enough.


----------



## persondude27

oge said:


> Hi there!
> 
> After reading through the chinese carbon threads i finally pulled the trigger on a FM015 (BSA, non ISP) from Hongfu. I finally received the frame and forks today and after a quick inspection everything seemed fine regarding the frame. Except for one thing. I was under the impression that the front derailleur cable runs through the bottom bracket housing as it does in this picture:
> https://aroundthecog.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/img_1772.jpg?w=225&h=300
> 
> I noticed my frame does have the hole needed to thread the cable through the bottom part but the top hole (as seen here:Hongfu FM015-ISP Weight | Flickr - Photo Sharing!) is missing. Upon closer inspection there seems to be some sort of spot in the clear-coat where the hole presumably should be which leaves me wondering if they have just forgotten to drill the hole at the factory. I sent an email to Hongfu regarding the issue and got an answer that there should be no hole which seems strange. Now my main question is, if the spot in the frame is the intended place for the hole, is it possible to drill a hole in the frame and fix the issue easily? I would have this done at the lbs of course. I hope the pics behind the link provide som help. What do you guys think?
> 
> - Oscar
> 
> Pics can be found here: FM015 - a set on Flickr


Honestly, I would just drill it myself. It's halfway done and there is no real magic that happens in this section of the bottom bracket. On my FM015, that is seriously overbuilt and I doubt a 2mm wide hole will make any difference. I don't remember if there is a guide in there or not; I think there might have been on mine. Either way, I've had TT bikes that didn't and it's only a minor pain in the butt.


----------



## FTR

persondude27 said:


> Honestly, I would just drill it myself. It's halfway done and there is no real magic that happens in this section of the bottom bracket. On my FM015, that is seriously overbuilt and I doubt a 2mm wide hole will make any difference. I don't remember if there is a guide in there or not; I think there might have been on mine. Either way, I've had TT bikes that didn't and it's only a minor pain in the butt.


I am wondering if the mark he can see is where they have accidentally clear coated over the hole.


----------



## KenRider

oge said:


> I'll answer to myself. After e-mailing with Nancy from Hongfu she understood the situation and admitted that the upper hole is missing. Now my options are sending the frame back to China or fixing the problem at my lbs. Will be going for the latter. Does anyone know if there is a guide inside the frame which the fd cable runs through? If not this should be a relatively easy fix. Alternatively i could try routing the cable the outer route between the wheelstays if the clearance is big enough.


I got my frame hongfu already, I also have the same dumb issue as yours! Have you had any luck? I'm bringing it to the LBS to see what can be done about it.


----------



## rbart4506

FTR said:


> Oh well.
> I will be putting a heap of protective tape on the underside of the down tube and on the top tube.
> Hopefully that will protect it enough.


Guys,

It's a bike...It's meant to be ridden! Therefore it will get scratched and nicked and chipped...


----------



## cda 455

rbart4506 said:


> Guys,
> 
> It's a bike...It's meant to be ridden! Therefore it will get scratched and nicked and chipped...



What's wrong with trying to reasonably protect it?


----------



## DudeMtn

Crawf said:


> I wish I hadn't.
> It's a royal pain in the backside to keep clean and the scratches show up very easily.


I ride my Dengfu FMO15 anywhere/everywhere. If you take care of it, it will look good for "long time" 

View attachment 279156
View attachment 279157


----------



## beston

I couldn't agree more. I have both a painted matte black frame and a matte clear coat one. The painted one is a lot harder to keep clean compared to the clear coat.



Crawf said:


> I wish I hadn't.
> It's a royal pain in the backside to keep clean and the scratches show up very easily.


----------



## rich_boydo

rich_boydo said:


> Hi All,
> 
> First time post so go easy! Ordered a FM028 ISP from Carbonzone, along with saddle,
> handle bars and bottle cages on the 11/03/13 and the item seemed to be returned to them.
> After a few emails I get a replay saying:
> 
> "
> Hello! My friend!
> All the tracking number are yours. because each box can only contain 2 frames, so we should put them in 6 boxes.
> 
> Yours
> Jun Lee
> "
> 
> I promptly replayed back saying that I did not order 6 frames. Thought I would be quite happy to get
> 12 frames, some of them even seem to have gone to Portugal!not the UK.
> 
> Have not had a reply in the last 3 days, but I am hopping that just because its been the weekend!
> 
> So my question is dose anyone have a good contact within Carbonzone who maybe able to help get my
> order sorted out!
> 
> I have a feeling not many people have used Carbonzone for this very reason!
> 
> Thanks,
> Richard
> -----
> update: Just had a reply to say they are doing the order again! Lets hope that they get it right the 3rd time!


Just wanted to give a quick update:

Order was placed on the 11/03, it ended up being shipped on the 10/04 and I received it today 16/04. Very quick deliver in the end, shame about the delays, due to postal issue. Unfortunately I am missing a spare hanger, I asked for, second bottle cage and also I have no bottle cage bolts! Going to email about them back!

Frame was in good condition, well packed and as far as I can see no issues with construction!

In the meantime wanted to share with you how far I had got with my build!


View attachment 279166


----------



## FTR

Still no responses from Dengfu.
About 6 emails sent now with no acknowledgement to any of them since I paid.
I know I asked for the frame to be painted black, but how long can that take?

Wanting to buy a CX frame from them soon but their silence game is making that hard to justify.


----------



## visionz001

I'm in the same boat. I had mine painted matte black with some blue. I haven't heard from them either. I heard once you pay the communication becomes a lot harder. Patience I guess. It happens to a lot of people


----------



## oge

KenRider said:


> I got my frame hongfu already, I also have the same dumb issue as yours! Have you had any luck? I'm bringing it to the LBS to see what can be done about it.


What a bummer, seems like they have some issues at the factory. My frame is at the lbs at the moment. They are going to drill the hole and also reinforce it from the inside with epoxy if I understood correctly. As persondude27 said, the bb area is quite overbuilt so I don't see a problem with the drilling.


----------



## KenRider

oge said:


> What a bummer, seems like they have some issues at the factory. My frame is at the lbs at the moment. They are going to drill the hole and also reinforce it from the inside with epoxy if I understood correctly. As persondude27 said, the bb area is quite overbuilt so I don't see a problem with the drilling.


Actually my issue was easily fixed, they took a long sharp tiny object and the tapped it repeatedly through the hole, no drilling was required, seems like excess of the finishing. Other than that I'm getting the ISP cut today, will take some pictures for the internet! Well hopefully yours isn't too severe.


----------



## KenRider

Before I get flamed, I did use the search button. So forgive me if it has been asked..
The Integrated seat post is stuck solid into the frame, I have loosened the bolt at the top, all the way and it would not move. Does anyone have a similar experience?

Cheers!


----------



## FTR

KenRider said:


> Before I get flamed, I did use the search button. So forgive me if it has been asked..
> The Integrated seat post is stuck solid into the frame, I have loosened the bolt at the top, all the way and it would not move. Does anyone have a similar experience?
> 
> Cheers!


Do you mean the seat topper on an ISP or are you talking about the seat clamp on the top of your seat post?


----------



## KenRider

FTR said:


> Do you mean the seat topper on an ISP or are you talking about the seat clamp on the top of your seat post?


I meant the seat topper, I actually found out how to get the seat clamp to tilt thanks to your angry post about the answer being on page 45.. haha


----------



## FTR

KenRider said:


> I meant the seat topper, I actually found out how to get the seat clamp to tilt thanks to your angry post about the answer being on page 45.. haha


Awesome!! Someone who has actrually researched before asking a question. 

No idea on the topper sorry.


----------



## sebo2000

DrDamage said:


> This may be the wrong place to ask - but in general where are you guys getting all of the running gear to put these bikes together - just browsing around on the net - I'm seeing some incredibly high prices for things like brakes, cranks etc.


ebay is a good place to start, or search local craigslist


----------



## deepakvrao

Hi Guys,

Ordered a FM029, and wanted to know if I should get Jagwire or SRAM cabling. Planning to use a Force groupset. The Jagwire is a bit cheaper I think.

Wiggle | Jagwire Racer Brake and Gear Cable Kit for Road Bikes | Brake Cables

View attachment 279238


EDIT: Also, does the frame come with the compression cap, and the star nut equivalent thingie for carbon forks? In case it does not, I forgot to add that to the order. Is it called a compression plug?


----------



## FTR

Looks like my frame, fork etc is on its way today.


----------



## deepakvrao

FTR said:


> Looks like my frame, fork etc is on its way today.


Yeah, but does the tracking number work for you? I think it is known to be erratic with EMS unlike couriers.

BTW, which frame?


----------



## FTR

deepakvrao said:


> Yeah, but does the tracking number work for you? I think it is known to be erratic with EMS unlike couriers.
> 
> BTW, which frame?


Pretty sure my last frames were not trackable after they left China.
FM098.


----------



## rbart4506

KenRider said:


> Before I get flamed, I did use the search button. So forgive me if it has been asked..
> The Integrated seat post is stuck solid into the frame, I have loosened the bolt at the top, all the way and it would not move. Does anyone have a similar experience?
> 
> Cheers!


I'm assuming you have a painted frame with a clearcoat. My FM028 is like that and the topper is tough to get off. You may want to try mounting a saddle and then with a rubber mallet lightly begin tapping the bottom of the saddle to see if that releases it. My FM029 has a matte finish and the topper is super loose and easy to remove.


----------



## glepore

deepakvrao said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Ordered a FM029, and wanted to know if I should get Jagwire or SRAM cabling. Planning to use a Force groupset. The Jagwire is a bit cheaper I think.
> 
> Wiggle | Jagwire Racer Brake and Gear Cable Kit for Road Bikes | Brake Cables
> 
> View attachment 279238
> 
> 
> EDIT: Also, does the frame come with the compression cap, and the star nut equivalent thingie for carbon forks? In case it does not, I forgot to add that to the order. Is it called a compression plug?


I was really happy with the Jagwire kit. The compression plug comes with the h/s if you ordered one.


----------



## deepakvrao

glepore said:


> I was really happy with the Jagwire kit. The compression plug comes with the h/s if you ordered one.


Thanks. That's a big relief.

Tracking number not working, and no reply from Dengfu. PP payment was to 

du yang
[email protected]

Can someone confirm that it is indeed the correct person please? I'm sure [hoping] that I'm worrying unnecessarily.

Edit: Do you use inline barrel adjusters for internally routed cables? If so, any idea where they are available online?


----------



## deepakvrao

serrone said:


> hi this is my bike mt mc 018 with the new wheels
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Love those decals. Where did you source them from?


----------



## deepakvrao

Hey guys,

Have I been scammed?

I see now that I have been communicating with Kathy at

[email protected]

Martina had also replied to me but by then I had already been in communication with Kahy, and I presumed that Kathy is also from Dengfu Bikes. I see now that the e-mail id is dengfusports and not dengfubikes.

I made the payment to

[email protected]

I see Martinas e-mail as 

[email protected]


FTR, can you please share which e-mail id you have been in touch with for your frame? Getting pretty worried now as tracking is not showing anything and the company might be a fake?

Have I been scammed?

Edit: Found these in a 2010 thread:



> has anyone confirmed that greatkeenbike.com is in fact the same as greatkeen.com.cn (dengfu sports equipment). I have a feeling they are not the same and that greatkeenbike is suspicions (it's the one with the pinarello knock-off).





> Starting to make sense.
> 
> dengfu = Dengfu Sports Equipment Co., Limited - carbon frame, carbon wheel, bike part
> 
> greatkeen bike = GreatKeen Bike Sport Equipment Co.,Ltd
> 
> Typical chinese marketing ploy. Have a similar name as a credible manufacturer and hope the buyer isn't aware.
> 
> My impression is Dengfu is good and I'll probably purchase from them soon. I think I'm just going to avoid greatkeen bike.


*So, am hoping that Dengfu sports and Dengfu bikes are one and the same, and the payment to [email protected] is correct, but would really appreciate any one confirming this.*


----------



## glepore

No, you've not been scammed-read the thread from 2010 carefully-the greatkeen.com.cn is dengfu sports. I haven't bought from them, but they are reputable. Often there is a communication lag after purchase. You may not see any shipping info for a week or two from any of these companies, they don't keep large stock, and any option, matte or whatever, slows things.

Search ebay or amazon for inline cable adjuster, they're everywhere.


----------



## FTR

Spoke with "Martina" via both emails and Paypaled to the address you posted. Need to chase up tracking info.


----------



## deepakvrao

Thanks guys. Just got a mail from Martina saying that the other e-mail is also theirs.


----------



## ms6073

deepakvrao said:


> Tracking number not working, and no reply from Dengfu. PP payment was to


If you are in the US, once the package arrives in the US, the shipments are typically handled by the USPS as International Express Mail. Simply copy/paste the tracking number (EMS?) you got from Dengfu into the USPS Tracking tool and once it hits the US/customs, you will be able to track delivery progress.


----------



## KenRider

Guys I just finished rising my fm015.. I realised there is some headset play, is this normal? Or I have not tightened the top cap enough ? The play is a bit worrying.


----------



## rbart4506

KenRider said:


> Guys I just finished rising my fm015.. I realised there is some headset play, is this normal? Or I have not tightened the top cap enough ? The play is a bit worrying.


Did your headset come with thin shims? If so are they installed? There should be no play what so ever and the front end should move freely once the play is removed...


----------



## FTR

Australia Post website says "accepted by facility".
Sadly that facility is in Sydney and I am in Brisbane and I have seen it take longer to get from Sydney to Brisbane than it takes to get from Shenzhen to Sydney.


----------



## ptsbike55

That's the way mine was. 3 days from China to JFK, and over two weeks from JFK to me.


----------



## oge

KenRider said:


> Actually my issue was easily fixed, they took a long sharp tiny object and the tapped it repeatedly through the hole, no drilling was required, seems like excess of the finishing. Other than that I'm getting the ISP cut today, will take some pictures for the internet! Well hopefully yours isn't too severe.


Nice to hear you got it fixed. My frame is now drilled but for some reason I cant get the wire through the frame, there is something in the way on the inside. The hole is drilled in the correct spot so I was assuming it should be a no brainer. Even the vacuum trick isn't working. Any suggestions?


----------



## persondude27

oge said:


> Nice to hear you got it fixed. My frame is now drilled but for some reason I cant get the wire through the frame, there is something in the way on the inside. The hole is drilled in the correct spot so I was assuming it should be a no brainer. Even the vacuum trick isn't working. Any suggestions?


Run a cable backwards and see what happens. It is possible that they installed a guide inside the frame.

When internal routing got big in TT bikes, there were a lot of strategeries that people came up with. One was a big neodynium magnet on the outside of the frame to guide the (hopefully magnetic) cable. I've used that one a couple of times...

Honestly, you can search "how to cable TT bikes" on the Google. A lot of people have a lot of ideas - I remember a teammate soldering a new cable to an old cable and then cutting it.


----------



## persondude27

KenRider said:


> Guys I just finished rising my fm015.. I realised there is some headset play, is this normal? Or I have not tightened the top cap enough ? The play is a bit worrying.


NO! This is NOT normal. The headset should have come with a very thin metal piece that fits between the top bearing race and the fork (is it called a 'bushing'?). For me, it was silver and about 3mm tall with a tiny slit in it.

If you can see this image, it is the 7 o'clock position. This one's black:
https://i01.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0...uitable-for-both-road-mtb-bicycle-headset.jpg

Anyway, the one that shipped with my Neco headset (similar to the one pictured, which was $15 two years ago from Hongfu) wasn't perfect. I had another one lying around that got rid of my 1mm or so of play. It is crucial that you have that piece. Most bike shops will sell them for a buck or two.

Edit: Also, make sure that you do it properly. Loosen all of the bolts on the stem and top cap. Then, tighten the top cap down, and then tighten the stem. If you do stem first, it might not be snug.


----------



## KenRider

rbart4506 said:


> Did your headset come with thin shims? If so are they installed? There should be no play what so ever and the front end should move freely once the play is removed...


I have checked a few times I have the 2 shims installed, actually upon closer inspection , where the top bearing sits into the frame, it does have a little play. My friend who has a fm001 from hongfu says its okay! And I have ridden it a few times too. Any advice on what I should do?


----------



## FTR

You may only need one of the shims.
Also make sure the expander plug is done up tight before tightening down the top cap or else the expander plug will move as you tighten down and your headset will be loose as a result.


----------



## BrendanH

Hello,
I have had a FM015 for over a year now and am happy with it but was not sent a 2nd rear hanger from Deng Fu the first time around. I am in need of a new one but they are charging $25 to ship that tiny piece... So if anyone has an extra or is ordering a FM015 soon - I'd gladly pay for the hanger, shipping from your home to mine and a tip. Or if someone can point me to a place online to buy one that will work.. that'd be great too

THanks


----------



## hcarreathers

Did you try DerailleurHanger.com They might be able to help. I've used them before and they are very good.


----------



## BrendanH

Thanks, I will check them out. 

Only reason I asked specifically was bc DengFu said "you need buy it from us, cause it's our own model for our factory,thanks!" But I see that as them trying to make a few dollars...


----------



## rich_boydo

i.super.abound said:


> i'm going to buy one or the other of these bars:
> 
> 
> 
> HB-003
> HB-012
> ITM Triango
> 
> i'm wondering if anybody here owns either of the above[SUP]1[/SUP]. or something similar in shape/design? _*not*_ the integrated type though. if yes, then how do you rate it? if no, then i'm not talking to you[SUP]1[/SUP], so move on!


Hi, super, just got something similar to HB-003 from carbonzone, seems good enough, easy to hold on both positions top and drop bar.

The ones form carbonzone have a nice hand sized part just under the brakes so when in the drop position it feels very comfortable/secure.

This is not really an informed option, but more of a personal one, as I have only been for one ride on it after receiving my frame/bars etc.. last week. That was the first time on a road bike in over 10 years! but I did do 2 hours/44k.


----------



## FTR

Frame is "on board with driver".
Then I just have to sit at work all day with the box beside my desk. 

Booooo!!!


----------



## deepakvrao

Heck, my frame shipped 3 days before yours, and the damn tracking number is still not tracking anything. Hope it just 'lands up' today or tomorrow.


----------



## FTR

deepakvrao said:


> Heck, my frame shipped 3 days before yours, and the damn tracking number is still not tracking anything. Hope it just 'lands up' today or tomorrow.


Are you tracking via the EMS link or your own postal service?


----------



## ericTheHalf

i.super.abound said:


> i'm going to buy one or the other of these bars:
> 
> 
> 
> HB-003
> HB-012
> ITM Triango
> 
> i'm wondering if anybody here owns either of the above[SUP]1[/SUP]. or something similar in shape/design? _*not*_ the integrated type though. if yes, then how do you rate it? if no, then i'm not talking to you[SUP]1[/SUP], so move on!
> 
> aside from the irrelevant (_to me_) minutiae of each brand's different manufacturing/carbon layup process, i expect that they "_feel_" *ergonomically-similar* to how these are described in that review. what say you?
> 
> i emphasize "_feel_" for a reason. that reason is: *i know* they're not manufactured/laid-up the same! but that's not what i'm interested in. i'm interested in "_feel_". kapisch?
> 
> 
> thanks in advance for your replies[SUP]1[/SUP].



I have a bar very similar to the HB-003. I've had it for close to 2 years. One thing to be aware of is that if the cables route internally, you are very limited in where you can position the brake levers. Also, because the tops are flat you will only be able to rotate the bars a little bit once you found the angle that works for your wrists. For me, it really feels like there is only one location for the brake levers and one angle for the tops, but it is the right one position for me.

For about the first year is was on the fence about them. The tops seemed a little too wide. After some time the bar wrap on the top came loose so I removed it from the tops, leaving the bars wrapped below the brake levers. Without the wrap on the tops, it doesn't feel to wide. Now I do like the bar.


----------



## persondude27

i.super.abound said:


> i'm going to buy one or the other of these bars:
> 
> 
> 
> HB-003
> HB-012
> ITM Triango
> 
> i'm wondering if anybody here owns either of the above[SUP]1[/SUP]. or something similar in shape/design? _*not*_ the integrated type though. if yes, then how do you rate it? if no, then i'm not talking to you[SUP]1[/SUP], so move on!
> 
> aside from the irrelevant (_to me_) minutiae of each brand's different manufacturing/carbon layup process, i expect that they "_feel_" *ergonomically-similar* to how these are described in that review. what say you?
> 
> i emphasize "_feel_" for a reason. that reason is: *i know* they're not manufactured/laid-up the same! but that's not what i'm interested in. i'm interested in "_feel_". kapisch?


As mentioned above, I had a similar bar to the HB-003. It actually looks to be the same bar as the ITM whatever, but without the paint. In my experience, it was soggy for its weight. It was wonderfully comfortable, with the exception of the "traditional" drop, where the shifters are below the tops. This is going out of style, and I am very much in favor of the new style. My SRAM Force hoods would cause both hands to go numb because of the location of the hood hitting the bar. I tried every rotation that didn't leave the tops at 90º to what they should've been, and moved the shifters up and down, but simply could not get them comfortable.

In the end, I went with $30 FSA Omega Compacts. They don't have the flat tops (which was honestly the only reason I bought the HB-003). I seriously regret that. The 3T Ergonova Pro ($90 online) has nearly exactly the same you're looking for but is aluminum. It's not as glorious, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

I actually had a set of the FSA K-Wings (not compact). Paired with DA7900, the transition from the top to the hood was flawless. It is a thing of beauty. I believe Alibaba to have some bars with a similar shape to those bars.


----------



## FTR

And I have stupidly not been clear enough with Dengfu.
I have forgotten to clearly state that I will need their aero seatpost clamp for my FM098.
Anyone used a different clamp or do I need to get them to ship me one?


----------



## deepakvrao

FTR said:


> Are you tracking via the EMS link or your own postal service?


Both, and neither shows it.


----------



## Arsenal

With the FM066 looking like a R3, I now remember the 2011 Scattante CFR looks very similar to a R3 and even has identical decals! Coincidence? https://powercycleshop.com/image/cache/data/Scattante/30-44661-500x500.JPG

I also remember the Boardman Air looks a bit like the Cervelo S2. Are these bikes cousins? https://default.media.ipcdigital.co.uk/11141/0000065b6/6e07/boardman-side-on.jpg


----------



## oge

KenRider said:


> Actually my issue was easily fixed, they took a long sharp tiny object and the tapped it repeatedly through the hole, no drilling was required, seems like excess of the finishing. Other than that I'm getting the ISP cut today, will take some pictures for the internet! Well hopefully yours isn't too severe.


Does your frame have an internal cable guide inside the frame. I can't get my cable to go through and i'm wondering if the hole could be drilled in the wrong place resulting in the inner guide blocking the cable form exiting the frame. If there is a guide inside and the hole is misplaced should i just plow through it with a drill (would require a long drill bit, a bit risky if you ask me) or drill another hole which hopefully would be in the correct spot. The current hole seems to be spot on according to pictures found online. 

Getting so frustrated i'm considering running the bike without a front derailleur!  Big ring ftw!


----------



## glepore

All of the bars pictured have the flat "ergo" drop, which either you love or hate-I'm not much of a fan, but I do like the flat tops so I ended up with a pair similar to the ones pictured. None of these are at all like the FSA's in the drops, and have a particlarly far reach to the brake from the drop. In retrospect, I should have bought the FSA's and a light stem, but I'm living with the bars I have as I don't spend as much time in the drops as I should. Mine are more similar in shape to the 13's.

A couple random comments-I love the wing-great for climbs as mentioned. It would suck taped (too thick), so I'm running my bars bare now, but will likely tape the drops as they get nicked whenever I lean the bike on anything. Sanded the tops to the hoods with 1000g wet/dry til good and matte for looks and grip. The internal cabling does limit you to a very narrow range of positions for the levers, works for me ok, but I'd like them a few mm higher (now they're just above level) and have had to adapt.


----------



## FTR

FTR said:


> And I have stupidly not been clear enough with Dengfu.
> I have forgotten to clearly state that I will need their aero seatpost clamp for my FM098.
> Anyone used a different clamp or do I need to get them to ship me one?


Anyone?
Dengfu have gone MIA again.


----------



## deepakvrao

Two weeks now. Post office says that tracking number is wrong and deng fu is not replying. Any suggestions? Talk to paypal or wait a bit. Problem is that I am leaving for Europe in a few days for three weeks.


----------



## FTR

Try this email address.
I finally got hold of Kathy on this one today regarding my missing seat clamp.

[email protected]


----------



## deepakvrao

After 10 days of telling Kathy that it is likely the wrong number, she finally acknowledged and sent me the correct number. The damn thing has been sitting in my local customs office since 19th. Just trying to get it cleared now.


----------



## TT Max

What happened at Velobuild?
I just wondered if anyone knows whats going on...I would like to order from Dengfu

VeloBuild will no longer sell products from DengFu, HongFu and Miracle Bike. We are very sorry for this inconvenience.

We expect all of your orders to be delivered in a timely manner and as ordered.

I started VeloBuild, because 10 or so online friends of mine wanted a place that we could communicate and organize a group buy and we found a willing seller. We are a loyal bunch. However, nothing has changed since day one, our mission will always be first to the service of, what is now a big group bike friends...not to the sellers.


----------



## FTR

TT Max said:


> What happened at Velobuild?
> I just wondered if anyone knows whats going on...I would like to order from Dengfu
> 
> VeloBuild will no longer sell products from DengFu, HongFu and Miracle Bike. We are very sorry for this inconvenience.
> 
> We expect all of your orders to be delivered in a timely manner and as ordered.
> 
> I started VeloBuild, because 10 or so online friends of mine wanted a place that we could communicate and organize a group buy and we found a willing seller. We are a loyal bunch. However, nothing has changed since day one, our mission will always be first to the service of, what is now a big group bike friends...not to the sellers.


Yeah that is a little weird.
I am wondering if Velobuild asked for a slice of the action and the Chinese said no.


----------



## deepakvrao

deepakvrao said:


> Two weeks now. Post office says that tracking number is wrong and deng fu is not replying. Any suggestions? *Talk to paypal or wait a bit. *Problem is that I am leaving for Europe in a few days for three weeks.


Don't know whether they monitor this thread. Strangely no reply for a week, but as soon as I mentioned 'talking to Paypal', I get a reply. 

Whatever, the long and short is I still got screwed. Have a close friend in the customs who got transferred out yesterday. My frame had been lying there since 19th. He could have easily cleared it for me if I had the right tracking number. Now am at the mercy of the new unknown guy who starts on Monday :-(

Edit: Customs in India can vary between 20-45%, so it really is an unknown.


----------



## DanBell78

Just wanted to add my experience.

I ordered the FM066SL from Hong-Fu about a month ago. From payment to arrival at my door (in Tokyo) took less than a week. All communication with Jane at Hong-Fu was prompt. There is a tiny bit of a language barrier, so I tried to word all my questions as simply as possible.

It seems like there is no non-Di2 version from Hong-Fu. Mechanical groupsets fit on the Di2 frame just fine, so there's no issue, but I was a tad confused about that at first.

The frameset arrived neatly packed up, and the box was undamaged. Upon inspection, the frame looked very nice. There were some small blemishes in the finish here and there, but nothing major (you have to really inspect the bike to find them), and nothing that appeared to be structural.

After waiting for parts to arrive, I built the bike up myself. This was my first build, so I wasn't sure how it would go, but it was very very simple. Almost no issues with any of the bits and pieces from Hong-Fu. The only problem was that the top cap for the headset was a tiny bit smaller in diameter than the top of the head tube. In addition, it would not sit flush against the top of the head tube, leaving a gap of about a millimeter.

I took it to my LBS to have them check it over and make sure I wouldn't kill myself riding it. They exchanged the top cap for a Ritchey one which sits flat on the head tube.

The frame seems great for the price. The geometry suits me nicely, and thus far, the ride quality is compliant without being mush. The bottom bracket seems robust for a lightweight frame, and while I am not a total beast, I haven't noticed any squishiness when I hammered on the pedals.

Overall, it was a very positive experience. I look forward to putting in more miles and really putting the frame to the test.

Edit: Forgot to add, it built up to 7.15kgs with cages and pedals.


----------



## TT Max

This is what Velobuild has posted...looks good....
We want to make sure all product currently ordered will be shipped and we have been assured this will be the case. After the last item has shipped we will share more about the issues. They are not quality issues.

If you are looking for a new frame we will be posting many more in the next few days and weeks.... MANY new frames and option on the way and many with 5 day or less shipping! Stay tuned.
VeloBuild.com Chinese Carbon Bike Frames Road Bikes, Mountain Bikes, Time Trial and Cyclo-cross bikes. eBay Sellers too.


----------



## takmanjapan

I've been wanting a chinese carbon for a while and am in Nagoya. Any duty to pay? I think I heard you need to pay the 5% tax but that was it?

Takmanjapan




DanBell78 said:


> Just wanted to add my experience.
> 
> I ordered the FM066SL from Hong-Fu about a month ago. From payment to arrival at my door (in Tokyo) took less than a week. All communication with Jane at Hong-Fu was prompt. There is a tiny bit of a language barrier, so I tried to word all my questions as simply as possible.
> 
> It seems like there is no non-Di2 version from Hong-Fu. Mechanical groupsets fit on the Di2 frame just fine, so there's no issue, but I was a tad confused about that at first.
> 
> The frameset arrived neatly packed up, and the box was undamaged. Upon inspection, the frame looked very nice. There were some small blemishes in the finish here and there, but nothing major (you have to really inspect the bike to find them), and nothing that appeared to be structural.
> 
> After waiting for parts to arrive, I built the bike up myself. This was my first build, so I wasn't sure how it would go, but it was very very simple. Almost no issues with any of the bits and pieces from Hong-Fu. The only problem was that the top cap for the headset was a tiny bit smaller in diameter than the top of the head tube. In addition, it would not sit flush against the top of the head tube, leaving a gap of about a millimeter.
> 
> I took it to my LBS to have them check it over and make sure I wouldn't kill myself riding it. They exchanged the top cap for a Ritchey one which sits flat on the head tube.
> 
> The frame seems great for the price. The geometry suits me nicely, and thus far, the ride quality is compliant without being mush. The bottom bracket seems robust for a lightweight frame, and while I am not a total beast, I haven't noticed any squishiness when I hammered on the pedals.
> 
> Overall, it was a very positive experience. I look forward to putting in more miles and really putting the frame to the test.
> 
> Edit: Forgot to add, it built up to 7.15kgs with cages and pedals.


----------



## deepakvrao

Got my frameset finally. Thankfully all parts came in and duty was not atrocious. Headset fitted well, and am planning to strip my old bike tomorrow. Fingers crossed that BB fits well too.

Overall happy with the packing as well as the frame, though yet to examine very closely.


----------



## DanBell78

takmanjapan said:


> I've been wanting a chinese carbon for a while and am in Nagoya. Any duty to pay? I think I heard you need to pay the 5% tax but that was it?
> 
> Takmanjapan


I had to pay a couple thousand yen I think. Might have been 5%, now that you mention it. Whatever the actual amount was, it wasn't much at all.


----------



## deepakvrao

FM029 frome from Deng Fu.

Initial impression. reasonably well finished. Headset fits, BB threads and fits well, and cables thread thru the concealed conduits.

I find that the 3k weave is not visible near the B and the area of the bottle cage mounts. Is this normal?

View attachment 279824


Weight of frame

View attachment 279825


Weight of uncut fork is 380 grams.


----------



## rbart4506

Not sure about the admin, but the site is definitely a PITA to navigate...


----------



## tmmartins

I used VeloBuild quite often to get info but I purchased my FM029 directly from Dengfu without any issues. Actually the process was smoother than most that used VeloBuild. At a later time I was looking at Farsports for a set a wheels and I was banned from VeloBuild because I was trying to negotiate a better price on my own. If you don't play by the admin's rules you are blackballed. It is a very closed forum and no one is allowed to be free with their comments. I get a lot more info from RBR. Lets keep this forum going strong.


----------



## TT Max

We are with you Tony....I've got the cold shoulder over there too...Too many boys and not enough men!


----------



## FTR

TT Max said:


> We are with you Tony....I've got the cold shoulder over there too...Too many boys and not enough men!


Same.


----------



## DanBell78

I created an account when I was checking there for information on frames. There were no active FM066 group buys at the time, so I emailed the admin and asked if they could let me know when one started. He mailed back and said he had added me to a group buy that was in process. When I discovered that I could just order it myself, I did that, and mailed the guy and told him I didn't need to be on the group buy anymore. A couple of days later when I went back to the site, my account had been deactivated.

I guess he can be helpful if you have warranty claims? I don't know. I also think it's a bit weird that almost no one has more than about twenty posts over there. If it's such a great community, where are the long term members?


----------



## rocklax

I joined Velobuild recently and have narrowed an instock frame and have exchanged almost 20 emails with someone from the site named Peter. He has been extremely helpful and made some great suggestions. While their site info is lacking I've been very impressed with my emails so far. Also from what I've gathered, and what someone else commented, "if" there happens to be a warranty issue going through Velobuild makes it much easier, however ymmv.

I for one intend to spend a bit extra to go through them, and Peter's english (whatever nationality he happens to be) is quite good.


----------



## deepakvrao

FM029 questions regd ferrules and barrel adjuster please.

Was wondering whether it is worth putting in a inline barrel adjuster for the FD. I though I would skip the RD but maybe the FD?

Also, where the housing goes into the stop in the frame [goes about 1cm inside], is there any value to putting ferrules? Both gear and rear brake cables.

Do you guys use ferrules or just let the cable housing end inside the frame stop?


----------



## DCash

FM015 Build Reportlousy phone so no pics yet)

From Hong Fu, 58cm built up with Sram Rival drive train, Apex brakes, Deda cockpit, Vuelta Corsa light wheels, 11-25 105 cassette, Rival compact 36-50.

Frame: 12K matte with GXP. Beautiful finish but one cosmetic imperfection on the chain stay. Necco headset fit the frame but had to cut a notch in the crown race to fit the fork. I'll probably replace the headset and the 3k carbon spacers for cosmetic reasons.

Build up:Had a LBS install the bottom bracket because I lack the tool. Everything else went pretty easy. Cabling and shifter set up took longer than expected. The drive train was transferred from my aging Marin(Marvin) and needed to be reset to neutral adjustments before tightening the cables into place. Started cutting the steering tube at four, trip to bike shop around five, dinner at eight, finally finished build around 1:30 AM.

Ride: Loaded up at 7 am to head out for an organized ride an hour away. I had tuned the girlfriends bike after I finished the build so decided against a full century. But a 70 mile ride after four hours of sleep on a bike less than 12 hours old, piece of cake. The FM015 is much more aggressive than my old bike which took some getting used to. The ride is much smoother than the aluminum predecessor and also much stiffer. The mass start and five miles of flat was a nice way to ease into the fit. The FM015 is very stiff with all power going straight into the wheel but somehow manages to smooth out the chip top of the county roads. I was getting used to the handling and tightened the headset at the first stop so the steering wasn't quite as squirrelly(Ritchey 5nm torque key). The bike really shined when we hit the hills. The stiffness of the rear end transfers all the power straight to the wheels so it is very easy to attack on rollers, by contrast I could watch the bottom bracket on my old bike sway with each pedal stroke. Being a rather wet day and not being used to the bike I would brake on the downhills trying to keep it around 30mph in the corners. 

I spent almost two hours after the ride talking to people about the bike and the build. I think I made a few converts when they compared the weight of their $3k+ bikes to my build, including drive train purchased last year, comes in around $1,400. 

Second ride: Sunday "recovery" ride with my racing team. Woke up with a sore back from the combination of building the bike on my trainer and the aggressive geometry for 70 miles. Lubed the chain after the wet ride the previous day and headed to the start. Normally a slow day, 16-18 average, but not everyone had ridden the day before due to the rain. We had a few rookies and guest so knew we would be stopping after some of the hilly sections: so that's where all the attacks happened. The old bike kept me at the back of the pack after the first surge but the stiffness of the FM015 allowed me to push on every climb. The more aero aggressive stance increased my speed on a non pedaling downhill by 5 mph. Todays dry conditions let me take downhills at speed and it wasn't long before I was going full tuck through a corner with a rider on my shoulder. Had some issues with rear shifting in the last five miles but that's to be expected with new cables. 

Conclusion: The FM015 is not as nice as the Trek Madone 5.2 I demoed last month. But for a third of the price I don't think you are going to be able to find a nicer bike at any shop. I knew the bike would be aggressive so I test rode a Scott with similar geometry to make sure it would work. It's going to take some getting used to but after 125 miles in two days I know it will work for me. 

I highly recommend the Hong Fu FM015 for anyone looking for an aggressive geometry racing style bike. 

Really looking forward to Tuesday night crit practice!


----------



## Mr Evil

deepakvrao said:


> ..I find that the 3k weave is not visible near the B and the area of the bottle cage mounts. Is this normal?..


It's common. Around some parts of the frame it's more difficult to get the weave to all line up in a way that looks nice, so they cover it up.


----------



## kbfore

rocklax said:


> I joined Velobuild recently and have narrowed an instock frame and have exchanged almost 20 emails with someone from the site named Peter. He has been extremely helpful and made some great suggestions. While their site info is lacking I've been very impressed with my emails so far. Also from what I've gathered, and what someone else commented, "if" there happens to be a warranty issue going through Velobuild makes it much easier, however ymmv.
> 
> I for one intend to spend a bit extra to go through them, and Peter's english (whatever nationality he happens to be) is quite good.


You must be talking to Peter at ixmplay.com. He was very helpful to me in my purchase through Velobuild. The IP039 was cheaper on Velobuild than on ixmplay. Unlike many of those who post on this site, I have no complaints.


----------



## rbart4506

deepakvrao said:


> FM029 questions regd ferrules and barrel adjuster please.
> 
> Was wondering whether it is worth putting in a inline barrel adjuster for the FD. I though I would skip the RD but maybe the FD?
> 
> Also, where the housing goes into the stop in the frame [goes about 1cm inside], is there any value to putting ferrules? Both gear and rear brake cables.
> 
> Do you guys use ferrules or just let the cable housing end inside the frame stop?


I use ferrules for the shift housing, not the brake...

I put on an inline barrel adjuster for the FD only, this will allow you to properly trim the FD...


----------



## equalme

So which companies are reliable to order from? I mostly see mentioned Hongfu, Dengfu, and Greatkeen. 

Dengfu has the biggest selection of TT frames, but they won't copy a paint/decal scheme.

Is there any other place I should check out? Thanks!


----------



## rbart4506

equalme said:


> So which companies are reliable to order from? I mostly see mentioned Hongfu, Dengfu, and Greatkeen.
> 
> Dengfu has the biggest selection of TT frames, but they won't copy a paint/decal scheme.
> 
> Is there any other place I should check out? Thanks!


As well they shouldn't, that's call counterfeiting and a big no-no...

Just get the open mold frame you like and dream up a custom paint scheme, then it's yours


----------



## visionz001

im trying to get decals done for my fm029 although I don't know the dimensions of the fork. Would anybody who has the fm029 or fm028 be able to give me an approximate width and length of the fork at around these points? its 52cm if it matters
View attachment 280013


----------



## tmmartins

visionz001 said:


> im trying to get decals done for my fm029 although I don't know the dimensions of the fork. Would anybody who has the fm029 or fm028 be able to give me an approximate width and length of the fork at around these points? its 52cm if it matters
> View attachment 280013


Where are you getting your decals? I have the exact same bike. BTW your attachment doesn't work.


----------



## visionz001

Hmm ill hqbe to try again later. I had marco do my decals. Apparently everyone has him do decals. I dont have the site on me right now but if you search marco bike decals or something im sure itll come up


----------



## visionz001

visionz001 said:


> im trying to get decals done for my fm029 although I don't know the dimensions of the fork. Would anybody who has the fm029 or fm028 be able to give me an approximate width and length of the fork at around these points? its 52cm if it matters
> View attachment 280013



View attachment 280024


----------



## deepakvrao

First ride today. Great ride, comfortable on chip seal roads, stiff, accelerates well, and best sized bike I have had till now.

FM029 from Deng Fu with Force and Soul S.3 wheels. 16.5 pounds. Maybe Chinese carbon wheels next.

View attachment 280026


View attachment 280027
*

Thanks guys for all the help and info here.*


----------



## FTR

Crap picture, but:
58cm.
6.82kg (15lb) as shown.
Decals to be installed.
Cables to be trimmed.
Steerer to be chopped.
Add 500g for training wheels.

Will take some better pics on the weekend once I am done.


----------



## deepakvrao

^^NIce.

Deng Fu website is not accessible [for me at least]. Anything to do with the crackdown by the US?


----------



## humpside

deepakvrao said:


> ^^NIce.
> 
> Deng Fu website is not accessible [for me at least]. Anything to do with the crackdown by the US?


Same with GREATKEEN's aliexpress store. 99% of the chinarellos are no longer available. I wonder what's going on...


----------



## Swen6

Just checked Ali-Express, they're all there for me????


----------



## Merc

I just read in an article today that the Feds are cracking down on websites that sell counterfeit bike products, i.e Pinarello frames and components. I guess those who were thinking of buying a Chinarello are just going to have to go and buy a real Pinarello, etc...


----------



## Crawf

FTR said:


> Crap picture, but:
> 58cm.
> 6.82kg (15lb) as shown.
> Decals to be installed.
> Cables to be trimmed.
> Steerer to be chopped.
> Add 500g for training wheels.
> 
> Will take some better pics on the weekend once I am done.


Clamp issue sorted?


----------



## visionz001

I sure hope it doesnt have to do with the crackdown. Dengfu didnt claim to be any other brand. I'm still waiting for my frame to ship from dengfu


----------



## FTR

Crawf said:


> Clamp issue sorted?


Hey Crawf.
Yep, they finally responded to my emails and sent me 2 of them.


----------



## FTR

Logo's and decals arrived today:


----------



## jchau

Merc said:


> I just read in an article today that the Feds are cracking down on websites that sell counterfeit bike products, i.e Pinarello frames and components. I guess those who were thinking of buying a Chinarello are just going to have to go and buy a real Pinarello, etc...



Cycling Yong was a big supplier of the fake pinarello.... well check this out
This domain name has been seized by ICE - Homeland Security Investigations


----------



## mrcreosote

visionz001 said:


> I sure hope it doesnt have to do with the crackdown. Dengfu didnt claim to be any other brand. I'm still waiting for my frame to ship from dengfu


as of Thu May 2 15:51:22 AEST 2013 dengfubikes iw working for me


----------



## FTR

China has been having their May Day holidays.
It is not uncommon for the Chinese Govt to simply turn off the internet during their holidays (along with their mobile phone service, closing theatres and other entertainment etc).


----------



## visionz001

mrcreosote said:


> as of Thu May 2 15:51:22 AEST 2013 dengfubikes iw working for me


Ya it just came back up. What bad timing to have the site go down temporarily


----------



## Mr Evil

jesuifatigue said:


> ..._"classical-looking"_, (some might even say, "_medieval-looking_") image of a griffin...


I think the word you're looking for is "heraldic". I suspect that FTR knows exactly what it is, because the text is "lapin" and the creature has rabbit ears and a fluffy tail. It does look a little off-centre though (too far left).

As to whether the two styles go well together... hard to judge without seeing them together in the context of a frame.


----------



## vortex04

Juke6961 said:


> Hi All, been lurking for a bit, before I pull the trigger on a FM015 from Dengfu,
> I want to be sure that a Campagnolo Veloce Copmpact 50/34 chainset will fit and the FD will be ok.
> I have trawled through all the posts and can only find a couple of references to this subject which seem to be around the Sram Red FD not clearing the chain stay
> Can anyone confirm that a compact is ok with the FM015............Thanks
> By the way, I really like DudeMTN's Fm015
> 
> John


Shimano 105 50/34 crank and FD are OK but I don't know about Campy FD.


----------



## Rob81

my second Fr316


----------



## Coolhand

*Moderator's Note*



jchau said:


> Cycling Yong was a big supplier of the fake pinarello.... well check this out
> This domain name has been seized by ICE - Homeland Security Investigations


Already a thread for this- please post in that one, so we can keep this about the non-counterfeit frames


----------



## FTR

Mr Evil said:


> I think the word you're looking for is "heraldic". I suspect that FTR knows exactly what it is, because the text is "lapin" and the creature has rabbit ears and a fluffy tail. It does look a little off-centre though (too far left).
> 
> As to whether the two styles go well together... hard to judge without seeing them together in the context of a frame.


Looks slightly left due to the ears.
I think it funny he says the text does not match but he has no issue with the idea of a pink rabbit-lion.


----------



## FTR

1st ride today and I was very happy with it.
Rode exactly how I had hoped (like a bike).


----------



## FTR

I should just say that I got the chance to look at the FM098 side by side witha Venge today.
Both bikes wer Matte Black and both were 58cm.
*LOTS *of differences between them.
Yes to the untrained eye you would mistake them at a quick glance, but a closer inspection would show that they are _*VERY *_different.


----------



## tonyyangdu

*this is tony come from dengfubikes*

hello all friends:

this is tony writing. I am come from dengfu bikes. thanks for your support for dengfu bikes in past years. we are sure we will do better in the future with high quality and better price and best service.
so for my poor english. I Have not issue news on this forum in longer time. But we will care for this forum in the future.

At first, i clarify one case we have not cooperated with velobuild from now. but Dengfu bikes business is normal and better.

if you have more question , you can send email to us:

now our email address and member: 
[email protected] Martinar or Tony
[email protected] Kathy
[email protected] Martinar
[email protected] Tony

also my skype ID is tony_yangd. welcome to inquiry.

Our website is dengfubikes and www.http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com

If you have any question , pls send us email.
best regards
tony


----------



## tonyyangdu

sorry, our website is dengfubikes.
best regards
tony


----------



## equalme

rbart4506 said:


> As well they shouldn't, that's call counterfeiting and a big no-no...
> 
> Just get the open mold frame you like and dream up a custom paint scheme, then it's yours


Umm thanks haha. Is there some a thread that tells which frame the replica is of?

TBH, I really wanted the new Cervelo P3, but they're not selling it as a frameset yet, and I'm not big on Shimano.


----------



## myhui

FTR said:


> Yeah that is a little weird.
> I am wondering if Velobuild asked for a slice of the action and the Chinese said no.


Probably.

Don't you find that to be a perfectly reasonable reply?


----------



## FTR




----------



## vortex04

*FM015 Hanger*



BrendanH said:


> Hello,
> I have had a FM015 for over a year now and am happy with it but was not sent a 2nd rear hanger from Deng Fu the first time around. I am in need of a new one but they are charging $25 to ship that tiny piece... So if anyone has an extra or is ordering a FM015 soon - I'd gladly pay for the hanger, shipping from your home to mine and a tip. Or if someone can point me to a place online to buy one that will work.. that'd be great too
> 
> THanks


Hello BrendanH,

I have 2 spare hangers of FM015.(The frameset was crushed by 4 tons truck). If you contact me I can send them by shipping cost from Japan, but it costs $4 in max.


----------



## ptsbike55

FTR,
Nice looking bike. How does it ride? What size frame and weight?


----------



## FTR

ptsbike55 said:


> FTR,
> Nice looking bike. How does it ride? What size frame and weight?


Size 58.
Weighs 6.8kg as pictured.
Rides fine. Responsive and just as nice to ride as my Moots.


----------



## TT Max

tonyyangdu said:


> hello all friends:
> 
> this is tony writing. I am come from dengfu bikes. thanks for your support for dengfu bikes in past years. we are sure we will do better in the future with high quality and better price and best service.
> so for my poor english. I Have not issue news on this forum in longer time. But we will care for this forum in the future.
> 
> At first, i clarify one case we have not cooperated with velobuild from now. but Dengfu bikes business is normal and better.
> 
> if you have more question , you can send email to us:
> 
> now our email address and member:
> [email protected] Martinar or Tony
> [email protected] Kathy
> [email protected] Martinar
> [email protected] Tony
> 
> also my skype ID is tony_yangd. welcome to inquiry.
> 
> Our website is dengfubikes and www.http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com
> 
> If you have any question , pls send us email.
> best regards
> tony


Tony I hope you can help us out....buying from Dengfu....There are a few of us here that are looking for frames


----------



## j4son

View attachment 280326


anyone know what mold this one is?


----------



## Jim_Harncorn

*Dengfu Stem*

Anyone have a clue as to what name-brand "inspired" the Denfgu cabon stem - http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/productshowimg/487644533-html?

Jim


----------



## alex1rob

Just put in an order for am FM066 SL from Hongfu with custom painting... 

What started out as a cheap frame ended up being quite a bit more :O but it's not every day I buy a new bike. But when I could have saved over 50% on a matt black fm029 it's a bit shocking ha. 

Lead time is about a month and I'll update with the build once finished with some 38mm clinchers from Bladex. My poor bank balance

Alex


----------



## LECHE531

*Lurking pays off*

Hi all,
Have been on the site for some time and always wanted to try to build. I am 54 and have always worked with steel, but my friend wanted one so I thought I would try. Many thanks go out to all who have helped. Just by letting me nose around I have learned a great deal.
Every thing you see was bought used on Ebay,Ttown, and at various jumbles. Its the only way it could have happened. Compact crank and a tall range for old legs, all campy. I guess the next build will be for me, will keep you posted. 

Again, many thanks


----------



## FTR

You might want to remove your pics.
There is a rule about posting counterfeits and for a very good reason.


----------



## LECHE531

Done...but why the rule if they are all couterfeit


----------



## FTR

LECHE531 said:


> Done...but why the rule if they are all couterfeit


Because they aren't all counterfeits.


----------



## rbart4506

LECHE531 said:


> Done...but why the rule if they are all couterfeit


Because the line has been drawn in the sand 

Counterfeits are illegal, it's stealing of intellectual property....

Open mold frames are basically open source...


----------



## alex1rob

So I've just sorted an order for this frame from Hongfu, what do you guys think?

View attachment 280553


----------



## TT Max

alex1rob said:


> So I've just sorted an order for this frame from Hongfu, what do you guys think?
> 
> View attachment 280553


Is that the FM066 Frame?


----------



## Syncmaster

I'm interested in getting an FM066sl frame, and I've been quoted almost exactly the same price from Dengfu and Hongfu. Any suggestions as to which is the most reliable seller? Seems like Hongfu's site is better, and includes video/pictures of the frame actually being stress tested. That seems comforting to me but it could mean nothing.

Thoughts?


----------



## rapgameguyfieri

///////


----------



## rapgameguyfieri

So I am building up a new bike. I bought a campy veloce groupset and deda/fizik cockpit. I am now looking for a frame. I was considering a china carbon. The best priced one I have found is 380 and exactly what I'm looking for. It is sold by e_baygoods/a_baygoods or flyxii. I can't really find much on them which is odd cause they have a ton of purchases on ebay. Are they reputable as far as china carbon goes? Has anyone bought the FR-04 frame before? Thanks for the help. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FR-04-700C-Full-Carbon-3k-Road-Bike-Frame-53cm-Alloy-Headset-/350777931514?pt=US_Bicycles_Frames&hash=item51abfe76fa


----------



## TT Max

Syncmaster said:


> I'm interested in getting an FM066sl frame, and I've been quoted almost exactly the same price from Dengfu and Hongfu. Any suggestions as to which is the most reliable seller? Seems like Hongfu's site is better, and includes video/pictures of the frame actually being stress tested. That seems comforting to me but it could mean nothing.
> 
> Thoughts?


I belong to the two forums dedicated to building Chinese carbon bicycles.
In the past Dengfu has been the most reliable, from the people that I have talked to.
But lately, it seems all the suppliers are getting really lousy at delivering...lots of long wait times lately....I don't know if its because of beefed up security in US or not.
I'm talking to Dengfu and Hongfu right now on a CX Disc frame.


----------



## DanBell78

I recently bought the FM066-SL from Hong-Fu and wrote a bit about the ordering process earlier in this thread here. The process was painless and very quick from payment to delivery. I made sure to order something that was in stock just to make sure there was no wait on production though.

In fact, I just got home from a ride on it and I have to say, it is a very sold frame. 146.2 kms and right about a 1000 meters of climbing this morning. Stiff without kicking my ass, and very responsive. I'm a satisfied customer so far.


----------



## deepakvrao

Syncmaster said:


> I'm interested in getting an FM066sl frame, and I've been quoted almost exactly the same price from Dengfu and Hongfu. Any suggestions as to which is the most reliable seller? Seems like Hongfu's site is better, and includes video/pictures of the frame actually being stress tested. That seems comforting to me but it could mean nothing.
> 
> Thoughts?


I just ordered from Deng Fu. frame was in stock, they shipped next day, and it reached India in 6 days. Different matter that it was languishing in customs for a week, as the tracking they gave me was wrong. Other than the wrong tracking number, can't fault them in any way. Frame rides great too.


----------



## Beyma

Hello all!

Need some help here. I cant find anyone who sells "chinese carbon frames" for BB86?

I got i bike today i wanna swap parts from and i have BB86 crank and bottom bracket. Can somebody link to a supplier?


----------



## Beyma

Hello all!

Need some help here. I cant find anyone who sells "chinese carbon frames" for BB86?

I got i bike today i wanna swap parts from and i have BB86 crank and bottom bracket. Can somebody link to a supplier?


----------



## TT Max

That's good news DanBell78....the FM066L is a solid frame...hope you have good luck with it!


----------



## gr8899

Guys, complete newbie and looking to build a China road bike. I am only used to MTBs. How do I know what kind of frame to go with? Is there like an "easier to handle" version that fits newbies well? I am 5ft 9".


----------



## mrcreosote

LECHE531 said:


> Done...but why the rule if they are all couterfeit


Buying an open-mold frame doesn't make it counterfeit. Having a 'replica' frame without the branding doesn't make it counterfeit. When you have 'Pinarello' plastered all over the frame, and it isn't a real Pinarello - that makes it counterfeit.


----------



## kyamei

Anyone happen to know what company the VB-R13 (chinarello) framesets Velobuild was selling is from? I picked up one of these frames just before Velobuild stopped dealing with those companies and just received the frame the other day. While building it up, I accidentally killed my fork and need a replacement. The fork is a 1-1/8 to 1-1/2 taper with the little "fin" behind the brake (as seen in the current Dogma2).


----------



## ChevyDK

kyamei said:


> Anyone happen to know what company the VB-R13 (chinarello) framesets Velobuild was selling is from? I picked up one of these frames just before Velobuild stopped dealing with those companies and just received the frame the other day. While building it up, I accidentally killed my fork and need a replacement. The fork is a 1-1/8 to 1-1/2 taper with the little "fin" behind the brake (as seen in the current Dogma2).


Great Keen Bike maybe?

What happened to the fork?


----------



## motopazzo

Anyone know whats's going on with velobuild?


----------



## TT Max

I tell you...they sure pissed off everyone at Dengfu....don't ever say you belong to Velobuild....they won't deal with you.
I'm thinking ...Killerbee, wanted a bigger piece of the pie!


----------



## kyamei

ChevyDK said:


> Great Keen Bike maybe?
> 
> What happened to the fork?


Thanks.

I cut it too short on accident. Whoops. Measure twice, cut once doesn't mean much, haha. It's too short even for a slammed stem.


----------



## dr.baig

how the hell did you manage to do that. Should have just used 40mm spacers and cut the fork that height and fine tuned from there onwards.

Nevertheless, I bought my frame from great keen. Try them and see if you can get the forks.


----------



## meeeeep

DrDamage said:


> This may be the wrong place to ask - but in general where are you guys getting all of the running gear to put these bikes together - just browsing around on the net - I'm seeing some incredibly high prices for things like brakes, cranks etc.


I'm a mtn biker and I buy all my components from Chain Reaction Cycles, Jenson USA and Universal Cycles.


----------



## DivenRide

meeeeep said:


> I'm a mtn biker and I buy all my components from Chain Reaction Cycles, Jenson USA and Universal Cycles.


Another site is wiggle.com. I normally compare the price between CRC and Wiggle before placing my order for them to ship to Singapore.


----------



## Dankbeme

I'm not shutting down VeloBuild. I'm just getting out of the customer service business and turning it back over to crowd sourcing to put pressure on the sellers to get better.

Actually the business model is quite good if you can hire low cost CRM reps and like to work a lot of hours to get it started. We made a healthy chunk of change and got a lot of free toys. Investing in a better shopping cart would be a good idea... ours was crap.

VeloBuild was a hobby due to my love for bikes and saving a buck. My other businesses do far better and need my full attention... as does my fiancee, old cat and our new house 

So... all the gloves (and moderators) are off. Post anything on VeloBuild you wish! We have invited every seller we know of to post as well.

BTW to the RBR mod... I hope this isn't in violation of your rules. You guys are welcome on VeloBuild anytime. This is just an effort to answer a lot of BS swirling around... fun BS to read... but still BS.


----------



## mrcreosote

DivenRide said:


> Another site is wiggle.com. I normally compare the price between CRC and Wiggle before placing my order for them to ship to Singapore.


see also bike24.com, bike-discounts.com, bike-components.de, hibike.com (and subtract the 19% VAT for pricing outside the EU)


----------



## tonyyangdu

*Which frame and size you want*



TT Max said:


> Tony I hope you can help us out....buying from Dengfu....There are a few of us here that are looking for frames


Hello friend, pls informe me which frame you want. i will check our stock.
my email address is [email protected] or [email protected]; my skype ID is tony_yangd.

At present we have more strock for FM069 new TT frameset and FM098.
best regards
tony


----------



## Billrush

A year ago, at 60, researched and bought a nice Titanium Motobicanne with Ultegra components from Bikesdirect for about $2000. Great first bike for me. Weighs about 20.5 pounds. A year later I am loving cycling and dreaming of a 15 pound carbon wonder. My club operates out of a cannondale LBS and a 15 pound wonder from Cannondale will run 4-6K. So in reading of the Chinese carbon frames, could I buy a frame set and use the Ultegra and other components from my Motobicanne and end up with a 15 pound bike for a fraction of the cost? Here are the specs on the bike I have:
Thanks for your advice

Frame

3/2.5 Butted Titanium Century Series, Custom Semi-Compact frame with replaceable derailleur hanger, 2x H2O bosses. Rear rack mounts. Fits tires up to 40mm wide.

Fork

AeroCarbon SL High Modulus Monocoque Carbon fiber L:50/53/55/58/61CM=222/242/257/277/297 mm.
CROWN:45mm, 45mm OFFSET. W/EYELET 1.125 inch
Fits Wide Tires up to 40mm

Headset

FSA Orbit IS Integrated Sealed Bearing Threadless 1.125 inch
Derailleurs RR/FR

Shimano Ultegra, front and rear

Shifters/Levers

Shimano Ultegra, 10 Speed (30 speed total)

Brakes

R556 FORGED ALLOY, DUAL PIVOT CALIPER BRAKE W/ALLOY QR

Hubs

Mavic Aksium, Sealed Precision Bearing Black Anodized

Rims

Mavic Aksium with UB Control sides, Black Spokes (20/20)

Crank/BottomBracket

SL-K Carbon Light Triple MEGAEXO, 52x39x30T, Arms are UD CARBON-GLOSS FINISH
170/172.5/175mm FOR 50-53/55/58-61CM,W/BB-8681 MEGA EXO BB

Cassette/Chain

CS-6700, Ultegra 10-SPEED 11-28T, 10spd Chain

Saddle

Road Racing (Turbo style)

Seatpost

FSA Carbon wrapped FR270, 27.2mm

Stem

Ritchey*PRO*4 AXIS 84/6D(C:31.8) ALLOY(6061)
EXT-6°) 90/100/110mm FOR* 50-53/55/58-61CM,C/S:31.8/28.6x42mm

Handlebars

Ritchey PRO Single Butted 6061 Aluminum Ergo Bar, 31.8mm OS
400/420/440mm FOR* 50-53/55/58-61cm, D/R:130/82mm

Pedals

+FREE Road Clipless Pedals (2 bolt sole pattern)

Tires	CONTINENTAL SPORT CONTACT, 700x32C, Presta valve tubes
Color	Brushed Titanium (as shown above)
Sizes	50, 53, 55, 58 and 61cm*Geometry Chart
(Center of BB to Top of SEAT TUBE / Seatpost Clamp/collar - just like Trek and Fuji)


----------



## rbart4506

No...

You will have to replace the wheels for sure...

I've got an FM029 with carbon tubulars, Ultegra drivetrain with a SRAM S975 Quarq and aluminum FSA bars/stem and it weighs just over 15lbs...


----------



## deepakvrao

rbart4506 said:


> No...
> 
> You will have to replace the wheels for sure...
> 
> I've got an FM029 with carbon tubulars, Ultegra drivetrain with a SRAM S975 Quarq and aluminum FSA bars/stem and it weighs just over 15lbs...


Just a clarification. These are monocoque frames right?


----------



## Billrush

You say replace the wheels. That is a weight issue? So carbon wheels?


----------



## DCash

Billrush said:


> A year ago, at 60, researched and bought a nice Titanium Motobicanne with Ultegra components from Bikesdirect for about $2000. Great first bike for me. Weighs about 20.5 pounds. A year later I am loving cycling and dreaming of a 15 pound carbon wonder. My club operates out of a cannondale LBS and a 15 pound wonder from Cannondale will run 4-6K. So in reading of the Chinese carbon frames, could I buy a frame set and use the Ultegra and other components from my Motobicanne and end up with a 15 pound bike for a fraction of the cost?





Billrush said:


> You say replace the wheels. That is a weight issue? So carbon wheels?


What are you trying to accomplish with the upgrade? Easier climbing, look cooler, better ride quality, less wind resistance, being able to say you have a 15lb bike, keep up with that smug 40 yo in the group?

Wheels and tires are your best upgrade as far as dollar value to actual ride improvement. Don't have to be carbon, just lighter. Your Akisiums are about 1800grams(3.98ish pounds) and aren't the smoothest rolling wheels either. Dropping $500 and half a pound in the wheels will be more noticable than two pounds on the frame and fork.


----------



## Billrush

"What are you trying to accomplish with the upgrade? Easier climbing, look cooler, better ride quality, less wind resistance, being able to say you have a 15lb bike, keep up with that smug 40 yo in the group?"

Honestly, all of the above. Always looking to upgrade and be faster and cooler. Hate to admit it. I am interested in your idea about upgrading wheels. I keep wondering how much of a difference it will make. What wheels would you suggest? I can always do this in increments. Change the wheels next and the frame last. Thanks for your advice.


----------



## russd32

+1 for upgrading your current bike. Titanium rides great and you won't really drop much weight going to carbon, and the weight you do drop won't be noticeable in the frame. If you are looking for performance and looks buy some 1400g'ish carbon wheels, maybe 38mm with some light tires as a "sunday wheelset". 

If you want to drop more weight from there you could always switch to a double crank/left shifter/derailleur. Then you could upgrade brakes, handlebars, stems, seatpost if you wanted to go lighter yet but you won't see as much improvement per dollar with those items.


----------



## Billrush

Why are they a Sunday wheelset? Does that mean limited? Are there everyday carbon wheels?


----------



## FTR

Billrush said:


> Why are they a Sunday wheelset? Does that mean limited? Are there everyday carbon wheels?


Depends who you are talking to.
IMO no.


----------



## Juke6961

*Hongfu FM015*

Hi All and a big thank you to all who have made this a very informed thread on Chinese frames.
Well after some time reading all several hundred posts, I decided on a FM015 frame from Hongfu. I contacted several of the other suppliers but found Hongfu the most responsive, especially Jenny who was always very helpful. I chose the FM015 primarily because of its looks, a mix of old style (those wine glass stem seat stays, very Curly Hetchinsesque) and the modern design of a carbon frame. I ordered frame, 50mm clincher wheels, bottle cages, 2 head sets, 2 seat clamps, two rear hangers and integrated bar and stem all in matt black. Jenny informed me it would be around 20 days before shipping, I paid my money via Paypal, sat back and waited. As many have said here, after payment, the Chinese "Go Dark" on the 21st day after payment, I mailed Jenny for a tracking number, she gave me one for the wheels and said (the worst thing she could have said to me) "Problem with paint on frame, sent for re-work". I am you see a paint process engineer for a large American paint company and a highly skilled auto refinisher, In the past I have painted many manufacturers cars for shows around the world. But I had a contingency for this, if the paint was not to standard, I would strip and repaint it myself. The wheels took 3 days to arrive in the UK and another 3 to pass through customs where to my disappointment I was charged £50.00 VAT, anyway, they turned up and were perfect. 2 days later, the frame arrived, great no customs charges on the frame. It was with anticipation that I un packed the box which was well protected and after examining the frame for a couple of hrs was satisfied that the frame was up to the required standard, nothing short than perfect.
Over the last 30 yrs, I have raced, TT and toured extensively on frames that I have bought, and built with a mix of Reynolds 531 and Columbus tubing. The best frame I had was Jack Taylor tandem built to my requirements which we toured all around the world, I also built a tandem with a mix of tubing for my two teenage kids in order that we could all get out together. Anyway I digress.
I am using a Elite Crono turbo trainer to build the FM015 up on, which I got a steal off ebay, saves using any clamping on the carbon tubes or getting a spare seat post to clamp onto. I used the PVC pipe method to knock the bottom race onto the fork crown and immediately spotted a problem with this method. The pipe needs to be a tight fit to the vertical face on the fork crown, if its not, the race goes down ok but the last mm you think its seated because as many have said the knock sounds solid, this is the outer of the race flexing and hitting the crown making it sound solid, with a tighter fit, you can get it down another mm making it sit flush. 
Over the coming weeks I expect my house to be like xmas, packages arriving every day with bits and pieces. I had some decals made up from Marco before the frame arrived, these will be the last things to be put on.
There will be a lot of "Me" in the bike, building it exactly as I want to which is the pleasure of this type of frame and not buying a ready for use bike. If anything does go wrong, well its down to me and for me to put it right, which with all the info on these threads should not be to difficult.
Again, thanks to everyone in making the choosing, buying and building these bikes a pleasure........jsut hope it rides as good as it looks.
As soon as Im done, I'll post some photos.

<object type="cosymantecnisbfw" cotype="cs" id="SILOBFWOBJECTID" style="width: 0px; height: 0px; display: block;"></object>


----------



## rbart4506

FTR said:


> Depends who you are talking to.
> IMO no.


I know lots of guys that train and race on carbon hoops exclusively...Some on tubulars even, it can be done.

Personally I'm waiting on a set of Boyd carbon clinchers to use as training wheels on my FM029 (the race bike) and I'll leave the carbon tubulars for race day only. The FM028 (training/rain/backup) will have the aluminum clinchers...

Honestly the wheels do make a difference, but not huge...

If I was not racing I'd probably stick with aluminum clinchers for overall ease of use, but that may change once I get on the Boyds...Only time will tell...


----------



## FTR

rbart4506 said:


> I know lots of guys that train and race on carbon hoops exclusively...Some on tubulars even, it can be done.


Good for them.
IMO no.
I train on comparatively heavy Dura-Ace hubs laced to Ambrosio Excellight rims with 32 spokes front and rear and heavy tyres.
On race days I race on my Mad Fiber tubulars and drop upwards of 500g


----------



## DCash

Billrush said:


> Why are they a Sunday wheelset? Does that mean limited? Are there everyday carbon wheels?


Carbon clinchers have come a long way in regards to long term use. There are still some issues with heat dissipation on long descents and braking in general. If you live in an area with lots of long winding down hills the carbon should be avoided. If it's pretty flat with slow rollers, like where I am, you can ride carbon year round with no issues. I ride with a guy who has two sets of (if you take off the rebranding internet supplier stickers) Deng fu wheels with over 2k miles on each. Only issue so far is how fast they go through brake pads. 

I'm in my first year of racing so I'll wait until I get out of the 5's before I try carbon.


----------



## rapgameguyfieri

Hello. I am looking at flyxii. They seem to offer the cheapest carbon frame I can find on ebay. Is there a reason for this? Has anyone rode the fr-04 before? I really want it, but im nervous about ordering from china. Is there anything that is apparently wrong with it that I haven't noticed or heard about. Thanks. 

530mm Fr 04 Full Carbon 3K Glossy Road Bike Frame Fork Clamp Headset | eBay


----------



## DivenRide

Posting a reply for Miracle's MC055 frame in the Chinese frame build picture thread.
View attachment 280879




Haole-Maole said:


> Thank you both for sharing your build pix.
> 
> Don't know if ride reviews are allowed in this very thread (pictures only?). But I'd love to hear about how your MT-MC055s ride. Please?
> 
> In addition to a ride review, a couple questions I'm also curious about:
> 
> 
> How many miles have you clocked-up on it at this point?
> Are those "sunday wheels" or "everyday wheels"?
> Is this a bike you would ride everyday (for training? for commuting?)
> Pros and cons of the MT-MC055 frame?
> 
> I have a hybrid bike that I used for commute for the past 11 months. I only started to pick up cycling again after 17 years as a form of exercise and as one of my means of commuting to work. I started toying with the idea of build a bike after I complete my first sprint triathlon last year and I chanced upon velobuild and this forum thread.
> 
> This is my first attempt in bike building and I was pretty happy with the build. The complete build without the saddle pouch & water bottles weights 8kg with my 52cm frame. I purchased almost every parts online from CRC, Wiggle & Taobao.com - a Amozon-like e-commerce portal in China; they own alibaba.com as well.
> 
> 1) So far I only clocked about 160km (20km test/training ride, 20km sprint tri, 4 x 5km short commute to work, 100km solo ride) since I completed the built a month ago.
> 
> 2) The Far Sports wheels is my only set wheels for the bike. The wheels came pretty true out of the box. You will get some rattling sound when riding over uneven road surface due to the tube valve touching the carbon. I suppose there is nothing serious that I should be worry about. I do noticed my front wheel is a little out of true 2 days ago that I will need to bring the wheel to have it check at my LBS.
> 
> 3) I can't really comment on how good the rides yet as I do not own a road bike previously. However, I did experience some sore bottom during my solo century ride which I would think it was due to my personal fitness level and the bike still require minor adjustment. An owner of MC055 frame posted a ride comment in velobuild that this is not a bike that you want rides longer that 40km. I couldn't comment on it yet until I have a couple more rides.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

Juke6961 said:


> ... I decided on a FM015 frame from Hongfu. I contacted several of the other suppliers but found Hongfu the most responsive, especially Jenny who was always very helpful. I chose the FM015 primarily because of its looks, a mix of old style (those wine glass stem seat stays, very Curly Hetchinsesque) and the modern design of a carbon frame. ...


congratulations ... the FM015 was the frame that I was going to buy but something else diverted my attention on ebay and I went with that instead ... looking forward to the pictures :thumbsup:


----------



## DCash

Juke6961 said:


> Well after some time reading all several hundred posts, I decided on a FM015 frame from Hongfu. I contacted several of the other suppliers but found Hongfu the most responsive, especially Jenny who was always very helpful. I chose the FM015 primarily because of its looks, a mix of old style (those wine glass stem seat stays, very Curly Hetchinsesque) and the modern design of a carbon frame.


I had a similar experience when I purchased my FM015 in February. I was also talking with Dengfu, Miracle, and Carbonzone(ebay). Jenny at Hongfu had the best communication and was able to tell me that my size of frame was in stock with the finish and BB I wanted, the other three dodged the "expected shipping date" questions.

I finally got all my parts in built and it up last month. Here are my recommendations:

Youtube.com. Watch every video you can find on carbon bike assembly. There are some subtle differences working with carbon and knowing every step of the process will make it go much faster. 

Buy a Ritchey 5nm torque key, nice little tool that you'll use on everything but the BB and cranks. Mine came with 4,5,6mm hex chucks.

Carbon assembly paste, you need it. 

I installed most of the parts on the trainer but it's much easier to run cables and tune the drive train on a stand. I purchased a used alloy seat post so I can clamp on that instead of the frame, cost $10. 

Lastly: This thing is so much fun! I've put 400 miles on it in three weeks and I smile every time I roll out.


----------



## russd32

I was actually referencing the old timey days when people had "sunday clothes", a suit...and they wore work clothes the rest of the week. I haven't ever heard anyone refer to their nice wheels as Sunday wheels but it seemed like a good description. 

Personally I like riding one heavier/less aero wheels with heavier tires the majority of the time. I think it makes the nice ones feel that much better when you ride them. Kinda like a new upgrade each time you put them on. You can definitely find carbon clinchers that can be used for a daily wheelset if that's how you want to use them. You can also buy a really nice set of alloy wheels that will be a major improvement.


----------



## Maximus_XXIV

DCash said:


> I had a similar experience when I purchased my FM015 in February. I was also talking with Dengfu, Miracle, and Carbonzone(ebay). Jenny at Hongfu had the best communication and was able to tell me that my size of frame was in stock with the finish and BB I wanted, the other three dodged the "expected shipping date" questions.
> 
> I finally got all my parts in built and it up last month. Here are my recommendations:
> 
> Youtube.com. Watch every video you can find on carbon bike assembly. There are some subtle differences working with carbon and knowing every step of the process will make it go much faster.
> 
> Buy a Ritchey 5nm torque key, nice little tool that you'll use on everything but the BB and cranks. Mine came with 4,5,6mm hex chucks.
> 
> Carbon assembly paste, you need it.
> 
> I installed most of the parts on the trainer but it's much easier to run cables and tune the drive train on a stand. I purchased a used alloy seat post so I can clamp on that instead of the frame, cost $10.
> 
> Lastly: This thing is so much fun! I've put 400 miles on it in three weeks and I smile every time I roll out.


You may want to try one of the below stands. It does not clamp to the bike in any place other than the front dropouts and works very well for me.

Park Tool Co. » PRS-20 : Team Race Stand : Portable Repair Stands


----------



## Maximus_XXIV

rapgameguyfieri said:


> Hello. I am looking at flyxii. They seem to offer the cheapest carbon frame I can find on ebay. Is there a reason for this? Has anyone rode the fr-04 before? I really want it, but im nervous about ordering from china. Is there anything that is apparently wrong with it that I haven't noticed or heard about. Thanks.
> 
> 530mm Fr 04 Full Carbon 3K Glossy Road Bike Frame Fork Clamp Headset | eBay


The top tube and head tube are really long for a 53cm. It seems to be sized more like a 56cm.


----------



## DudeMtn

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> congratulations ... the FM015 was the frame that I was going to buy but something else diverted my attention on ebay and I went with that instead ... looking forward to the pictures :thumbsup:


What did you go with? I bought my FMO15 from Dengfu 2 years ago and have put 1,000 miles on it in the mountains, rolling hills and flats of Colorado. Interestingly, I worked with a "Jenny" which is the name coming up lately from Hongfu - Hongfu/Dengfu are probably one in the same - who really knows? Anyway, my rig is still in great condition and rides very well. After this season, I may change the color scheme or get marco to make me some more decals or may even consider a different frame for kicks. However, I WILL NOT pay retail for a bike again. The quality and value (at least what I have experienced) is so worth it. I feel for you guys that experience any delays/issues/concerns etc. because my product, communication and entire deal was excellent. Good luck and happy trails.

View attachment 280939


View attachment 280938


----------



## Maximus_XXIV

DudeMtn said:


> What did you go with? I bought my FMO15 from Dengfu 2 years ago and have put 1,000 miles on it in the mountains, rolling hills and flats of Colorado. Interestingly, I worked with a "Jenny" which is the name coming up lately from Hongfu - Hongfu/Dengfu are probably one in the same - who really knows? Anyway, my rig is still in great condition and rides very well. After this season, I may change the color scheme or get marco to make me some more decals or may even consider a different frame for kicks. However, I WILL NOT pay retail for a bike again. The quality and value (at least what I have experienced) is so worth it. I feel for you guys that experience any delays/issues/concerns etc. because my product, communication and entire deal was excellent. Good luck and happy trails.
> 
> View attachment 280939
> 
> 
> View attachment 280938


1000 miles in 2 years? I am not sure that is too much use. Does anyone have 3-4k miles on a bike? I am thinking of a frame and wheels but I may get the wheels first just to try out the wider rims as well as carbon.


----------



## rapgameguyfieri

Yeah, I generally ride a 56 so I figured that would be the one that fits nicely. I have a friend with a caad10 which has similar tt/st measurements and it fit well. 

On a side note, whenever I am signed in I can only see up to pg 129 on this thread, but when I log out it lets me go to the current page. Does anyone know what's causing this?


----------



## rbart4506

Maximus_XXIV said:


> 1000 miles in 2 years? I am not sure that is too much use. Does anyone have 3-4k miles on a bike? I am thinking of a frame and wheels but I may get the wheels first just to try out the wider rims as well as carbon.


Don't have an exact amount, but I'd guess over 10000km on my FM028, built up last June or so. Used that baby for training and racing, on the flats, in the hills, in the sun, the rain and the snow. She has seen it all and is still going strong! Love it!

BTW, wife has the same bike, same mileage...

We liked them so much we got the FM029s and are beginning to rack up the mileage on them


----------



## persondude27

My FM015 is nearing 15,000 miles. That includes about 850,000 vertical feet and 10-20 miles of hardpacked dirt a week. It is a well-built, almost inexcusably stiff frame. The next frame will probably be an MC053. 

Mine is every bit as nice a frame as some of the mid-level carbon frames from big manufacturers. I can't say it's as nice as high-end manufacturers, since there are little things that are not perfect (like the downtube cable stops not being far enough to the outside).

Good luck in your purchase.


----------



## DudeMtn

Maximus_XXIV said:


> 1000 miles in 2 years? I am not sure that is too much use. Does anyone have 3-4k miles on a bike? I am thinking of a frame and wheels but I may get the wheels first just to try out the wider rims as well as carbon.


We are under snow for 6-7 months a year and I split my time between mountain bike and road during spring, summer and fall so yeah - 1,000 miles is not bad. In addition, there are guys on here with several thousand miles on these frames.


----------



## rapgameguyfieri

So it looks like the frame I was looking at is out of stock even though they keep the ebay post up. I have found some things on aliexpress that look nice. Is that place too sketchy? All I have read about is people getting ripped off, but they seem to have a new buyer protection thing that seems good. Has anyone ordered from them. Is there a company on there (like carbonzone etc on ebay) that is reputable. Thanks.


----------



## rapgameguyfieri

For reference, this is what I was looking at.

Full Carbon Glossy Road Bike Bicycle Frame , fork , Headset 48CM , 50cm , 52cm , 54cm, 56cm-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com


----------



## tonyyangdu

visionz001 said:


> Ya it just came back up. What bad timing to have the site go down temporarily


some time, our website can not work because we are chinanese company, but our website service in USA. So the website maybe have some crowd and slowly.
Ous website is within the law. And we never sold fake frames.
welcome to visit our website.
best regards
Tony come from Dengfubikes.


----------



## McGilli

Hi Guys.

I was wondering if anyone here can ID this frame for me? Maybe what model or where it came from? Is it a copy of a production model frame?

I can post more pictures if needed.

I picked it up at a liquidation.

Again - only looking for the a frame ID as it has had some parts swapped out etc...

Thanks


----------



## Coolhand

*Moderator's Note*

Dragging your commercial dispute into this thread is not what it is for, and posting someone's personal details as part of the dispute is an even worse idea. Please don't do it again.


----------



## jb4iu

I find it hard to tell the difference between UD Matte and 3K Matte. I am getting ready to order a couple frames....thoughts/opinions on the two finishes?


----------



## Tswifty

McGilli said:


> Hi Guys.
> 
> I was wondering if anyone here can ID this frame for me? Maybe what model or where it came from? Is it a copy of a production model frame?
> 
> I can post more pictures if needed.
> 
> I picked it up at a liquidation.
> 
> Again - only looking for the a frame ID as it has had some parts swapped out etc...
> 
> Thanks




That frame looks like the same one Planet X use for their track bikes, i cant tell you the chinese sellers name, i think Dengfu has one kinda like it. But yeah.


----------



## McGilli

Tswifty said:


> That frame looks like the same one Planet X use for their track bikes, i cant tell you the chinese sellers name, i think Dengfu has one kinda like it. But yeah.


Hey thanks. I think you are right. I did a google image search for planet x track bike - and it comes up with the exact same bike and carbon weave pattern on it... Good place to start thanks!


----------



## visionz001

So I just received my frame but dengfu sent me the wrong one! I ordered an fm029 and they ended up sending me a fm029a which is the di2 compatible version. I was contemplating getting this frame from the start because of the brazeon but decided not to because I wasn't sure how it would work with normal components since i wasn't using di2. 

Looking at the pictures is there going to be anything that will get in the way of me installing a normal group set on this frame? As long as its not a problem to use normal components with this frame I'm perfectly fine with it. 

Also there are these two holes in the frame I am curious about. one of them underneath the downtube looks like its meant to be there but theres one kind of behind the bottom bracket that looks weird.


----------



## DCash

visionz001 said:


> Also there are these two holes in the frame I am curious about. one of them underneath the downtube looks like its meant to be there but theres one kind of behind the bottom bracket that looks weird.


The FM029A is Di2 compatible but still designed for cables. The hole on the down tube and the seat stays are to let an moisture that enters the frame out. The hole behind the seat tube on the bottom bracket junction is for the front derailleur cable. Looks like yours has a little over spray that might need to be sanded down.

Love that shade of blue, did you do matching color on the inside of the fork?


----------



## visionz001

DCash said:


> The FM029A is Di2 compatible but still designed for cables. The hole on the down tube and the seat stays are to let an moisture that enters the frame out. The hole behind the seat tube on the bottom bracket junction is for the front derailleur cable. Looks like yours has a little over spray that might need to be sanded down.
> 
> Love that shade of blue, did you do matching color on the inside of the fork?


thats what I figured I just remembered somebody saying not to risk getting a di2 frame because I might be missing components to set up the frame with regular components. But as long as I can still run normal components on it then its perfectly fine with me. At least now I don't have to buy the braze on adapter for my front derailleur  

and yes the inside of the fork is the same as the blue behind the seat stays and chain stays


----------



## tulips

hi,
I'm new here.been reading up here. Need help. Ordered from Greatkeen The frame's arrived and noticed a a depression on TT where some patch work seems to be done. Am posting the pics from different angles. The carbon fibres at the place seem to have been cut(can be seen in real - not seen in the pic) Also some slight lines on the tt and the tube for bottom holder.. Is this a problem? 
Thanks in advance
View attachment 281261
View attachment 281262
View attachment 281263
View attachment 281264
View attachment 281265


----------



## ChevyDK

I have seen a few of the GK RFM301's, and none have had that kind of flaws. 
I would contact them for a new one.


----------



## Dadude

Hello,

Does anybody know if there is somewhere a seatpost available that has no offset and fits into the Fm098 frame? I can't get my correct position with the standard fm098 seatpost ;(

Thank you


----------



## ptsbike55

tulips,
That is a pretty rough looking frame. I think I would be asking for another one too.


----------



## forge55b

It is just the outer layer, (aesthetic layer) of the layup. I am pretty sure, but in terms of getting what you paid for, definitely see how they can fix the problem.


----------



## McGilli

Almost looks like the carbon layer was sanded through in that spot....

BTW

My bike is posted up this page - the black one with the 12k carbon weave.

I just took this macro shot of the weave and wow! Hahah it looks like the carbon was all loose when it was lacquered down...


----------



## tulips

Thanks. i've done that now. sorry for the ignorance, this finish is called Matt black or 3k matt black?
Is the graphics (or the 2nd color) supposed to be sticker or painted?

Thanks everyone


----------



## bike_paul

hey y'all. lurkin on this thread for forever. anyway, time for a post. long story short, i love the fm066sl, but i am desperately looking for an isp version.

anyone have a suggestion for a straight tubed carbon frame with internal cable routing and integrated seat post? looking for something along the lines of the ritte frames. checked with dengfu and hongfu, they both don't do isp version for fm066, but there seem to be a few other dealers out there that i don't quite have a handle on.


----------



## FTR

bike_paul said:


> hey y'all. lurkin on this thread for forever. anyway, time for a post. long story short, i love the fm066sl, but i am desperately looking for an isp version.
> 
> anyone have a suggestion for a straight tubed carbon frame with internal cable routing and integrated seat post? looking for something along the lines of the ritte frames. checked with dengfu and hongfu, they both don't do isp version for fm066, but there seem to be a few other dealers out there that i don't quite have a handle on.


You are not looking hard enough.
There are lots of standard diamond shaped frames available in ISP.
FM028 for one.


----------



## bike_paul

as far as i am aware the fm028 is not fully internally routed, at least thats what it looks like on the dengfu site. did they change that? also, the top tube isn't round, which is what i am looking for in the fm066. any other suggestions?


----------



## FTR

Why do you want internal cabling?
I have it on my FM098.
It is a PITA as you cannot adjust cable tension to the rear derailleur at the down tube and you cannot adjust the cable tension to the front derailleur full stop.
In fact ISP is a PITA too if you ever want to travel with it.
Ritte is not a round Top Tube either.


----------



## rbart4506

You can get inline adjusters to take care of cable tension adjustment...


----------



## FTR

rbart4506 said:


> You can get inline adjusters to take care of cable tension adjustment...


Yes, you can.


----------



## BhSimon

I've never seen a 066 with ISP. What are the benefits ISP which attract you, out of curiosity?


----------



## tulips

visionz001 said:


> thats what I figured I just remembered somebody saying not to risk getting a di2 frame because I might be missing components to set up the frame with regular components. But as long as I can still run normal components on it then its perfectly fine with me. At least now I don't have to buy the braze on adapter for my front derailleur
> 
> and yes the inside of the fork is the same as the blue behind the seat stays and chain stays


Is the blue color - paint or sticker?


----------



## Breinholm

Does anybody recongize this frame?
Carbon Road Bicycle Frame/high Quality/factory Cheapest Price/fast Delivery - Buy Carbon Fiber Road Bicycle Frame,Carbon Road Bike Frame,Super Light Carbon Road Bicycle Frame Product on Alibaba.com
Full Carbon Road Frame - Buy Carbon Frame Product on Alibaba.com

I've been hunting for Chinese carbon frames for ages now. The FM098, FM066SL and FM029 have all been considered, maybe even the Great Keen Dogma replica.
I have never stumbled across this frame from any of the well-known dealers like DengFu, HongFu, Flyxii, Great Keen etc.

It looks like a frame used on those Stradalli bikes:
Medium BB30 2012 STRADALLI Napoli SRAM Red Full Carbon Road Bike Race Bicycle | eBay

Any help is appreciated!


----------



## visionz001

tulips said:


> Is the blue color - paint or sticker?


Paint


----------



## McGilli

Haole-Maole said:


> You've got what looks like a 12K matte finish. The frame in the post from McGilli has a 3K (gloss/clear coat?) finish.


I just wanted to post to say Haole is mistaken in that comment above.

My bike - with the large carbon patches is 12k glossy. 3k is the much smaller patchwork.

Here is a description of the common carbon types available from the chinese resellers. Have a look at the picture I attached.

3k gloss/3k matt/12k gloss/UD matt


View attachment 281371


----------



## bike_paul

BhSimon said:


> I've never seen a 066 with ISP. What are the benefits ISP which attract you, out of curiosity?


Its really just the look of it. I am aware that its a bit of a pain when it comes to travelling. Got an Alan Bikebox though, it fits ISPs quite comfortably. And since the re-sale values of the chinese frames isn't exactly high anyway, I was thinking about getting an ISP frame.


----------



## tulips

I'm having real problems with just one frame. The frame looks like it has been repaired-a depression in the Top Tube and broken carbon fibres. Talking with Greatkeen. Response is not good. Ignoring it and stalling for time.
I've got 
1. Damaged and repaired Top Tube
2 Wrong Finish


----------



## tulips

*Greatkeen frame problems*

Thanks
Was confirming b'cos i'd orderd a matt black and i received a 3k finish it seems. That wouldn't be much bother. But the depression on Top tube. Greatkeen has responded back and saying there isn't any problem with the frame - infact they do not see any irregularity at all in the pics. They'r asking which pic has the problem on the frame. guys any suggestions on how to convince them to see the problem? They'r just repeating one statement - that i shouldn't expect quality of the frame to be like the original. There's no way i'm going to ride that frame. - :cryin::mad2:


----------



## tulips

Haole-Maole said:


> To be fair, it might be worth elaborating on why I underlined the word, "_risk_" in my earlier post. By "risk", I meant: it's not 100% guaranteed that your repair will result in a catastrophic failure. It might be totally fine. It's just that there is a higher probability (a "risk") that something _could_ go wrong. It's a gamble only you can decide whether or not you want to ante up on.
> 
> 
> The following bicycle.com article might help give you more confidence:
> 
> 
> ...Rumors of your bicycle's death may be greatly exaggerated...



I wouldn't gamble. No doubts about that. I just didn't know that greatkeen was selling damaged/refurbished frames. I'm stuck with a refurbished frame and at their mercy. 
Are all frames from Greatkeen damaged/refurbished?


----------



## tulips

visionz001 said:


> Paint


The yellow on my frame's all sticker - my frame is from GK.


----------



## McGilli

Yeah Tulips - I am curious - how/where (what site) did you buy your frame?

I ask because I just used Aliexpress for the first time ever a few weeks ago to have some wheels made and shipped to me. And the main draw was the whole escrow payment - where they do not receive my money until I post saying I received and am happy with the product.

I haven't received mine yet - but knowing I can have them not payed if the product isn't as I ordered is a good piece of mind. Hope it works ou.

I agree - put some circles in yellow on the photos an explain in the email what you are circling - and what you expected.


----------



## McGilli

Haole-Maole said:


> You're right. I stand corrected. I always get them mixed up, being that neither of the "exposed-weave" finishes appeal to me. I'm a UD Glossy man myself.


Haha no worries- after I read your post - i thought maybe I was wrong! 12k - just seems like it would mean 'more - smaller' weave - as opposed to less large...


----------



## Leusken

Hi guys, 
I am a long time lurker buth just registerd today because i really need some help! 
I wanna purchase a chinese carbon frame and have looked into several options 
(FM039 hongfu/ FM015 hongfu / FM028 and FM029 dengfu /FM032 yishun) These are the frame's i like. 
I want a ISP because that is just something i always dreamed about. 
Buth now my major concern: 
I ride a size 61 bianchi 1885 
Geocharts here: 
1885/Veloce | Bianchi USA
I compared these number to the one's i could find off the frame buth i must say that i really ain't that good at that. 
Would someone please look at them and help me find the bike best suited for me?


----------



## DCash

Leusken said:


> Hi guys,
> I am a long time lurker buth just registerd today because i really need some help!
> I wanna purchase a chinese carbon frame and have looked into several options
> (FM039 hongfu/ FM015 hongfu / FM028 and FM029 dengfu /FM032 yishun) These are the frame's i like.
> I want a ISP because that is just something i always dreamed about.
> Buth now my major concern:
> I ride a size 61 bianchi 1885
> Geocharts here:
> 1885/Veloce | Bianchi USA
> I compared these number to the one's i could find off the frame buth i must say that i really ain't that good at that.
> Would someone please look at them and help me find the bike best suited for me?


Fit Calculator - Competitive Cyclist

I recommend using this fit calculator to find the geometry that will fit your body and riding style best. If you like the fit of your old bike use the one that is closest to that.


----------



## Leusken

thanks for the quik reply. 
I am afraid the problem is a bit bigger than that. I have a discalcution disorder (i think that is what you call it in english) so numbers are kind off a problem. 
Really no one who want's to spend 5 min of his time to help me out? Plz.
Thanks in advance


----------



## applebaconator

Just caved and bought a matt black 3K weave FM015 with integrated seat post, full aero-like carbon fiber handle bar and the carbon fiber stem from carbon zone on Ebay. 

Bought it right after I discovered carbon fiber handlebar with integrated stem from another Chinese carbon fiber ebay seller. Guess I will have to deal with an extra ~10g somehow (but also easier to replace if anything happens).

Also bought a Shimano 105 group set separately. Now still need some cheap clincher wheels (leaning towards Shimano WH-R-501A Wheelset), tube/tires (clincher ones), brake cables, mechanic tools (wire cutters, hacksaw, long hex key) and pedals. 

If anyone has any recommendations of lightweight wheelset (700cc, 23) for <$200, I would be very grateful.
[Edit: nevermind, I got myself some carbon wheels too]


Hope to receive everything very soon, so I can assemble it together.


----------



## rbart4506

You buy a carbon fiber bar and stem to save weight, but then get 105 and want to put clinchers on the bike??

<$200 will not get you light clinchers unless you buy used...


----------



## McGilli

That wheelset is advertised as :

Front : 822grams
Rear: 1078grams

Which from my limited research lately seems to be on par with most aluminum wheels even twice the price.

Meaning - yeah you won't get anything lighter (brand new) in aluminum unless you go up in price.

OP - have a look on Aliexpress.com

Maybe go carbon - and tubular. Many have free shipping. worth a look if you want to save weight.


----------



## ericTheHalf

Leusken said:


> Hi guys,
> I am a long time lurker buth just registerd today because i really need some help!
> I wanna purchase a chinese carbon frame and have looked into several options
> (FM039 hongfu/ FM015 hongfu / FM028 and FM029 dengfu /FM032 yishun) These are the frame's i like.
> I want a ISP because that is just something i always dreamed about.
> Buth now my major concern:
> I ride a size 61 bianchi 1885
> Geocharts here:
> 1885/Veloce | Bianchi USA
> I compared these number to the one's i could find off the frame buth i must say that i really ain't that good at that.
> Would someone please look at them and help me find the bike best suited for me?


Assuming your Bianchi fits you, of those you listed I think only the FM028/29 will work for you.


----------



## applebaconator

> You buy a carbon fiber bar and stem to save weight, but then get 105 and want to put clinchers on the bike??
> 
> <$200 will not get you light clinchers unless you buy used...


I got some carbon fiber wheels instead.


----------



## maxxevv

Based on the Bianchi, 

the closest match is probably the FM028 / FM029 in size 60. 

The headtube is taller, the seat tube angle is more upright, which means you will need to set your seat back approx 4-8mm further than what it is now on your Bianchi and you can use perhaps 10-15mm less spacers under the stem. 

Assuming you are transferring all the parts over. 

Hope its of help. 

Here's a link with the FM028 geometry:

FM028 | Cheap Carbon Frames



Leusken said:


> Hi guys,
> I am a long time lurker buth just registerd today because i really need some help!
> I wanna purchase a chinese carbon frame and have looked into several options
> (FM039 hongfu/ FM015 hongfu / FM028 and FM029 dengfu /FM032 yishun) These are the frame's i like.
> I want a ISP because that is just something i always dreamed about.
> Buth now my major concern:
> I ride a size 61 bianchi 1885
> Geocharts here:
> 1885/Veloce | Bianchi USA
> I compared these number to the one's i could find off the frame buth i must say that i really ain't that good at that.
> Would someone please look at them and help me find the bike best suited for me?


----------



## Rob81

any frame yet that can remind the Giant Propel:
aero, specific brakes, but if possible not ISP?


----------



## DAVEnge

*Which Dengfu site is legit?*

I would like to take a chance and buy the Aero FM098 frame from Dengfu, but when I put a search for the company, there are several different Dengfu sites. Which one is legit?

Thanks


----------



## McGilli

DAVEnge said:


> I would like to take a chance and buy the Aero FM098 frame from Dengfu, but when I put a search for the company, there are several different Dengfu sites. Which one is legit?
> 
> Thanks


I use all these companies sites through alibaba now cuz of the escrow payment system for safety...

Here you go for Dengfu

Dengfu Sports Equipment Co., Limited - Small Orders Online Store, Hot Selling Bicycle handlebar,tt frame,700C wheel and more on Aliexpress.com


----------



## tulips

McGilli said:


> Yeah Tulips - I am curious - how/where (what site) did you buy your frame?
> 
> I ask because I just used Aliexpress for the first time ever a few weeks ago to have some wheels made and shipped to me. And the main draw was the whole escrow payment - where they do not receive my money until I post saying I received and am happy with the product.
> 
> I haven't received mine yet - but knowing I can have them not payed if the product isn't as I ordered is a good piece of mind. Hope it works ou.
> 
> I agree - put some circles in yellow on the photos an explain in the email what you are circling - and what you expected.


I bought it directly from greatkeenbike.com They have an email id listed on their site. been talking to M/s hu i think..

Did Manage to draw their attention. Actually i think the pics posted showed what i meant . - I managed to draw their attention somehow. But they keep repeating one statement now - that i cannot expect quality like orignial etc etc.
Well i said i don't compare it to the original - b'cos its not - But hey would it be unreasonable to expect just a BRAND NEW CARBON FRAME WITHOUT DEFECTS, PATCHES, REFURBISHED. ??
They answer one day and suddenly the line goes cold - choosing to answer the least relevant issue in the mail. the process is painfully slow....
The escrow thing is a nice arrangement if it works out...


----------



## DAVEnge

McGilli said:


> I use all these companies sites through alibaba now cuz of the escrow payment system for safety...
> 
> Here you go for Dengfu
> 
> Dengfu Sports Equipment Co., Limited - Small Orders Online Store, Hot Selling Bicycle handlebar,tt frame,700C wheel and more on Aliexpress.com


Thanks.

So Aliexpress is a middle person/company?


----------



## DCash

DAVEnge said:


> Thanks.
> 
> So Aliexpress is a middle person/company?


Yes, like the generic knock off love child of Amazon and Aldi. I had better luck, and prices, contacting the companies directly through their websites. Just got a quote on a cyclocross frame for $150 less than the Ali price. 

Make sure you get a confirmation on the lead time before paying. Demand for certain frames has grown beyond their capacity and are back ordered. But they typically won't tell you that unless you really push for it.


----------



## DAVEnge

Thanks, great tip.

Should I know anything else about buying/protect myself tips?

I've been in contact with them thru the previous link about FM098. Funny, same company, but they have two different prices for the same frame on ALi and Aldi


----------



## bike_paul

What are people paying for the FM066 (normal weight version) ? I got a quote from Dengfu and Hongfu and the difference was quite a bit, so I was wondering if they have standard pricing or if it fluctuates?


----------



## Rob81

Rob81 said:


> any frame yet that can remind the Giant Propel:
> aero, specific brakes, but if possible not ISP?


found it, but available only in 2014:


----------



## McGilli

DCash said:


> Make sure you get a confirmation on the lead time before paying. Demand for certain frames has grown beyond their capacity and are back ordered. But they typically won't tell you that unless you really push for it.


Very true - as I just recently found out. The page said 3-5 days to ship it out - and so today on day 11 I asked them what was taking so long. Said they ran out of stock the day before I ordered and had to make a new set of wheels. At least they always respond to my question within a few hours.

It's fine with me - but just goes to show you should ask up front if it's important to you how long they will take to ship it out.


----------



## thisnix

Rob81 said:


> found it, but available only in 2014:


Hi Rob,

That seems like a great frame (for me  )! Can you tell me who makes it? I couldn't find it.


----------



## skitorski

I saw the Neuvation sale, but that should be over, and that frame weighs 1380g per their website. The Hongfu 066sl is advertised as 850g. Do you know of any confirmed weight and price on this model ? Thanks.


----------



## PauliG

What was/is the going rate for a fm015, fm066 and fm098 in plain 3k?

You kinda miss velobuild for the pricing info!

Cheers!


----------



## DanBell78

skitorski said:


> I saw the Neuvation sale, but that should be over, and that frame weighs 1380g per their website. The Hongfu 066sl is advertised as 850g. Do you know of any confirmed weight and price on this model ? Thanks.


My 066sl came in right about that weight, but I can't remember exactly what it was. It built up to 7.15kgs with Ultegra Di2.


----------



## DanBell78

PauliG said:


> What was/is the going rate for a fm015, fm066 and fm098 in plain 3k?
> 
> You kinda miss velobuild for the pricing info!
> 
> Cheers!


Not trying to be a dick, but couldn't you just email the various sellers and ask for prices?


----------



## PauliG

DanBell78 said:


> Not trying to be a dick, but couldn't you just email the various sellers and ask for prices?


I asked for pricing comparison not how to get a price!!!

Anyway, how do you know I have not got prices for frames? Asking here seems like a good way to gauge the prices being quoted versus the average prices being paid (the true market price) 
Nothing wrong with asking that kind of think here! If you care to read through lots of posts you will find that some suppliers will try to get the most they can.

But thanks anyway for the reply and advice!


----------



## PauliG

Are there any people from Ireland/Uk getting hit by customs for the anti-dunping tax of 48.5% ?
From my research-some EU countries are charging it and others not. Whether the frame is painted or not seems to have a lot to do with it.


----------



## glepore

skitorski said:


> I saw the Neuvation sale, but that should be over, and that frame weighs 1380g per their website. The Hongfu 066sl is advertised as 850g. Do you know of any confirmed weight and price on this model ? Thanks.


Mine was 836g in a 50, fork 359. The seatpost is on the heavy side at 230. I paid 750.


----------



## thesober

That's true, I like the idea of know what others are paying so you know where you stand on the pricing quotes. Wondering if you can share what you've been quoted? I'm at the beginning stage of my research so any help appreciated.
I was looking at the FM015 but the FM066 looks really nice too.



PauliG said:


> I asked for pricing comparison not how to get a price!!!
> 
> Anyway, how do you know I have not got prices for frames? Asking here seems like a good way to gauge the prices being quoted versus the average prices being paid (the true market price)
> Nothing wrong with asking that kind of think here! If you care to read through lots of posts you will find that some suppliers will try to get the most they can.
> 
> But thanks anyway for the reply and advice!


----------



## f3rg

Maximus_XXIV said:


> 1000 miles in 2 years? I am not sure that is too much use. Does anyone have 3-4k miles on a bike? I am thinking of a frame and wheels but I may get the wheels first just to try out the wider rims as well as carbon.



I have almost 10,000mi on my Hongfu FM015-ISP, still rides like the day I got it.


----------



## DCash

thesober said:


> That's true, I like the idea of know what others are paying so you know where you stand on the pricing quotes. Wondering if you can share what you've been quoted? I'm at the beginning stage of my research so any help appreciated.
> I was looking at the FM015 but the FM066 looks really nice too.


Price quotes tend to vary by vendor and do fluctuate some. FM015 $400-550, FM066 $500-700, +$50-100 for SL version. This is based on quotes I received in February for non-ISP with matte or gloss clear coat. Shipping is pretty standard $70-80. Check with several vendors to compare prices as they will give you different prices if you are ordering seat post, stem, ect. 

I purchased a Hong Fu FM015. Looking for an agressive and stiff race frame and that is what I got. 600 miles in a month including four races. No flex on climbing(with Sram GXP BB) but still smooth enough to ride for 70+ miles.


----------



## Zeet

djrbikes said:


> I'm not judging you, I'm just pointing out what you are getting if you buy counterfeit designed bikes. I don't have a problem with generic. I used to ride Motobecanes, which are essentially open mold. I liked them, but they cut some corners on components like all manufacturers do to get to a pricepoint. Those bikes helped me get back into the sport until I was ready to upgrade, or in the case of the cyclocross bike, until the bike was run over by an angry SUV driver. And, I certainly agree its more about the engine.


Since when did world manufacturing companies quit stealing copyrights, designs, and ideas from other companies?


----------



## FTR

Zeet said:


> Since when did world manufacturing companies quit stealing copyrights, designs, and ideas from other companies?


Please dont poke the ignorant bear.


----------



## deepakvrao

f3rg said:


> I have almost 10,000mi on my Hongfu FM015-ISP, still rides like the day I got it.



I have 17K kms on a Pl-X which is essentially similar. An open mould Chinese frame rebranded. Sold it now and got a Deng Fu 029.


----------



## swedebike

After reading on this forum I recently ordered (and paid for) a frame, wheels and some other stuff from Carbonzone on Ebay. Last week the wheels arrived but I haven't heard anything about the rest of the stuff. Since I only got one tracking number I expected that all things would arrive together. Carbonzone has until now been very fast i responding to messages but are now ignoring me... 

You guys who have dealt with them before, is this normal behavior from their side or should I be worried...?

Thanks


----------



## DanBell78

Ah right, sorry. I thought you were just curious about the prices. I didn't really price check much when I bought my FM066SL. I contacted Hong Fu, they quoted me the same price as the group buy price on Velo Build so I bought it. Probably could have haggled it down a bit I suppose.




PauliG said:


> I asked for pricing comparison not how to get a price!!!
> 
> Anyway, how do you know I have not got prices for frames? Asking here seems like a good way to gauge the prices being quoted versus the average prices being paid (the true market price)
> Nothing wrong with asking that kind of think here! If you care to read through lots of posts you will find that some suppliers will try to get the most they can.
> 
> But thanks anyway for the reply and advice!


----------



## rruff

Billrush said:


> So in reading of the Chinese carbon frames, could I buy a frame set and use the Ultegra and other components from my Motobicanne and end up with a 15 pound bike for a fraction of the cost?


No. Your BD Ti frame is 1-2 lb heavier than a typical good carbon frame. Everything else is parts. 

The biggest and cheapest performance improvement would be to run good tires and latex tubes, to reduce rolling resistance. GP4000S are good. Best place to buy them is Ribble, Wiggle, or PBK... all in the UK.


----------



## enkidubr8

Hi all. That´s my FM028 I built two years ago.
View attachment 281780

But I´m still not satisfied with the standard Deng Fu seat mast topper - too heavy (167g)! Does anybody have a replacement suggestion (with setback)?


----------



## McGilli

*Help finding this frame*

Hi All.

I posted my bike a few pages back - which is the same frame that Planet X uses for their Track Carbon Pro bike.

I've contacted PX asking if they have anymore unbranded frames which they say they don't.

Planet X apparently sources their frames from XDS Carbon. I've contacted them - but have yet to hear back from them.

I'm not sure where mine came from exactly - as I got mine at a bike shop liquidation - and I'd like to buy another.

Anyways wondering if anyone else has seen this frame anywhere...


PX Version
View attachment 281781


XDS base model



Mine


----------



## Juke6961

*Torque Settings*

Hi All, Just about got all the gear I need to start building my Hongfu FM015. What are the typical torque settings people use for :- Seat post, front derailiuer clamp, brake bolts, headset and handlebar stem.<object type="cosymantecnisbfw" cotype="cs" id="SILOBFWOBJECTID" style="width: 0px; height: 0px; display: block;"></object>


----------



## zanderover

I bought a FM028 ISP from deng fu last year to replace my broken aluminium frame. 

After a year of riding I am still very pleased with the bikes handling. 
Although the bike rides really well, i had some real issues in building the bike. I ordered a painted bike (3 colors scheme). I don't know if Deng Fu painted it twice or something, but the tubes where too thick to mount all the parts. As a result:
- the seatclamp would not fit properly (had to stretch it up a bit) 
- the front derailleur clamp (34.9) would not fit (used sand paper to increase the diameter)
- the bolds holding the brake pivots would not sink into the frame due to the paint (used a drill to restore the diameter of the holes for the bolds to sink in).

So, i would recommend buying a fm028 from deng fu, but i would go for an unpainted (transparent) frame.


----------



## Juke6961

Are there any people from Ireland/Uk getting hit by customs for the anti-dunping tax of 48.5% ?
From my research-some EU countries are charging it and others not. Whether the frame is painted or not seems to have a lot to do with it.

<object type="cosymantecnisbfw" cotype="cs" id="SILOBFWOBJECTID" style="width: 0px; height: 0px; display: block;"></object>


----------



## DCash

Juke6961 said:


> Hi All, Just about got all the gear I need to start building my Hongfu FM015. What are the typical torque settings people use for :- Seat post, front derailiuer clamp, brake bolts, headset and handlebar stem.<object type="cosymantecnisbfw" cotype="cs" id="SILOBFWOBJECTID" style="width: 0px; height: 0px; display: block;"></object>


All of those parts should come with the proper torque setting in the instructions or printed directly on the part. Everything but my BB(installed at LBS) and cranks were rated at 5-6nm so I picked up one of these

Ritchey TorqKey 5Nm with 4 bits M5/4/3/T-15 : Amazon.com : Sports & Outdoors

Very simple tool that works perfectly. Test it on a couple alloy pieces so you get a feel for the "click"

Also be sure to use carbon assembly compound anywhere a part is attached to carbon: seat post, expander plug, derailleur clamp, stem and handlebars. 

I've put 600 miles on my Hong Fu FM015 in a little over a month and absolutely love it.


----------



## tulips

GreatKeen Not Replying

It's been 7 to 8 days. Got their attention. Offered replacement. Now no replies. Shooting mails everyday in vain..


----------



## ZachUA

please forgive me for not reading every reply in detail, as most were regarding strictly road bikes, but after skimming and looking through many Chinese carbon frame discussions I have settled on fm059 cx frame from Dengfu. 

I have primarily ridden mountain bikes recreationally, but would like a cx bike that will be fine to ride on road group rides during the week, and then swap tires and race cross when the season starts back up. Unfortunately I cannot afford to buy 2 bikes (road and cross). 

With regards to a budget friendly road compatible cx bike - I am not sure what exactly I need to watch out for when buying. Also not sure of which components to go with for a road/cx build? I need to build this as budget friendly as possible. Are there any budget build lists floating around that I could use? Any general advice anyone could offer?

Here is the fm059: http://dengfubikes.com/index.php?pa...ategory_id=10&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=69


----------



## Sylvania

Hi

I am looking for a Campagnolo EPS compatible frame. The frame i am thinking of bying is either the Hongfu HF-FM069 or the HF-FM066sl. These frames is Di2 compatible but are they also Campagnolo EPS compatible ?
Some of the geometry drawings shows 6.2mm holes for the cables, but the datasheets i found from Shimano and Campagnolo show that they are using 7mm connector ?
Anyone tested these frames with EPS ?

Best Regards

Kim


----------



## McGilli

ZachUA said:


> With regards to a budget friendly road compatible cx bike - I am not sure what exactly I need to watch out for when buying. Also not sure of which components to go with for a road/cx build? I need to build this as budget friendly as possible. Are there any budget build lists floating around that I could use? Any general advice anyone could offer?
> 
> Here is the fm059: http://dengfubikes.com/index.php?pa...ategory_id=10&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=69



I am sure there are guys on here who will know better - but - if you are on a budget are you sure you want to go with Disc Brakes? If you're going to get cheap disc brakes - I'd pass and get some nice cantilever brakes. (the forks you are buying are for disc only).

Good cantilever brakes are awesome and light compared to cheap disc brakes.

But see what others have to say. I got Cantilevers on my CX after my experience with cheap disc brakes.


----------



## ZachUA

McGilli said:


> I am sure there are guys on here who will know better - but - if you are on a budget are you sure you want to go with Disc Brakes? If you're going to get cheap disc brakes - I'd pass and get some nice cantilever brakes. (the forks you are buying are for disc only).
> 
> Good cantilever brakes are awesome and light compared to cheap disc brakes.
> 
> But see what others have to say. I got Cantilevers on my CX after my experience with cheap disc brakes.


Good point on the savings of cantis. I have discs for first time on my mountain bike this year and love them. I hoped to be able to squeeze them into my budget for the cx bike.

What happened with the disc setup you used?


----------



## McGilli

ZachUA said:


> What happened with the disc setup you used?


They were extremely cheap - which is why I bought them (on a super budget at the time) and they did not stop near as well as any other brakes I had used and they were always squealing. Again. Just my experience. And this was a few years ago. Maybe now the low end disc brakes are better. Anyways good luck with the bike!


----------



## Kopsis

ZachUA said:


> but would like a cx bike that will be fine to ride on road group rides during the week, and then swap tires and race cross when the season starts back up.


I've been using my CX bike as a road bike for six months now. It works, but it is somewhat limiting. It's less aero, geared wrong, and the geo is not optimal compared to a true road bike. Don't splurge on your CX build because sooner or later you'll get the bug to build a full up road bike. 

I'd stick with alloy seatpost, stem, and bars. It's tempting to go carbon, but you'll want something more rugged for CX. Discs (even cheap ones) are nice if your CX season includes a lot of mud. In dryer climates I'd stick to cantis to save money and weight.

Make sure you include plenty of replacement derailleur hangers in your frame order (pretty easy to bend them racing CX). Usually $5 each and no additional shipping if you order them with the frame. If you need more later, the shipping will make them much more expensive.


----------



## gr4474

Hello...I'm interested in buying a complete carbon 29er. I've only found Dengfu who has them, but many people say they don't reply to emails...and they haven't replied to mine yet, but it's only been 1 day. Is there any other good companies who sells complete 29ers? Has anybody bought one, and how are they?


----------



## gr4474

*Complete Bike Chinese Carbon 29er*

Hello, I'm new here.
I'm interested in buying a complete carbon 29er Bike. I've only found Dengfu who has them so far. Many people say they don't reply to emails...and they haven't replied to mine yet, but it's only been 1 day. Is there any other good companies who sells complete 29ers? Has anybody bought one, and how are they?


----------



## Maximus_XXIV

What kind of riding do you want to do? Will this be a hard tail? Most of those companies will take some time to get back to you. You may want to try mtbr.com for better answers to mtn bike questions. You can also try the Chinese carbon thread for details on individual companies.


----------



## gr4474

I posted this in the carbon 5 thread, but i can't see my post even though it says I'm the most recent post. This forum is acting wacky today though. I posted about frames in the carbon thread over at mtbr.com and got no answers. That's why I'm nervous to take on a build if I can't get any support from forums...so a complete would be good for me if I can get a reply from seller. 

I'll create a new thread over there also and see what happens.


----------



## FTR

gr4474 said:


> Hello...I'm interested in buying a complete carbon 29er. I've only found Dengfu who has them, but many people say they don't reply to emails...and they haven't replied to mine yet, but it's only been 1 day. Is there any other good companies who sells complete 29ers? Has anybody bought one, and how are they?


Maybe ask this over on MTBR in the Chinese thread in the 29er forum.


----------



## gr4474

Oh I'm thinking about a hardtail...here is a 21 inch frame I found on Hongfu:
HF-FM056 - $435.00 : bike MALL

Here is a complete bike I inquired about from Dengfu:
SUPERLIGTH MTB 29ER CARBON MTB FRAME FM196


----------



## FTR

Maybe try the massive thread on MTBR in the 29er forum?


----------



## Maximus_XXIV

Are you looking for a cheap carbon bike? I would find a bike shop that is willing to build it or check it over before you ride it because the one issue of the Chinese buying process is QC based on what I researched. I really do not think it should be done by someone who is not a competent mechanic because carbon is not overly forgiving of mistakes.

I would go used or pick up a clearance bike at an LBS.


----------



## FTR

Maximus_XXIV said:


> Are you looking for a cheap carbon bike? I would find a bike shop that is willing to build it or check it over before you ride it because the one issue of the Chinese buying process is QC based on what I researched. I really do not think it should be done by someone who is not a competent mechanic because carbon is not overly forgiving of mistakes.
> 
> I would go used or pick up a clearance bike at an LBS.


Fear mongering at its best.
The main thing to do is to work with a well known company (Hongfu, Dengfu, Carbonal etc).
Just like you would do with anything you buy.


----------



## Zeet

FTR said:


> Fear mongering at its best.
> The main thing to do is to work with a well known company (Hongfu, Dengfu, Carbonal etc).
> Just like you would do with anything you buy.


While I'm all for Chinese CF, I would think it absolutely mindless to NOT think of QC issues. After all, if something were to go south with the frame, who would you legally address, and with what success. It's not so much that they're Chinese. Heck! That's where all the good stuff is located anyways. However, it is about communicating with some local liaison, who possesses the legal responsibility to interact with the consumer. In my book, that's an American bicycle company, a LBS, or some online dealer with a respectable customer service staff, located here within these contiguous United States of America.


----------



## Maximus_XXIV

FTR said:


> Fear mongering at its best.
> The main thing to do is to work with a well known company (Hongfu, Dengfu, Carbonal etc).
> Just like you would do with anything you buy.


It was not meant as fear mongering, it is a legitimate concern. There have been issues posted about holes being covered with clear coat or in the wrong place, threads needing to be chased and missing parts. These are all things that happen to all manufacturers but get caught at the LBS. If there is no LBS then it will need to be caught by the consumer.

A full bike may be different but I know of zero people that have bought built bikes from China. I cannot recommend this to someone because there is no data, good or bad.

I am not against Chinese bikes and still may buy one. The only reason I have not is because I have too many right now and no burning desire to build a new bike. I am sure I will take the plunge eventually just to have the experience.


----------



## gr4474

Maximus_XXIV said:


> A full bike may be different but I know of zero people that have bought built bikes from China. I cannot recommend this to someone because there is no data, good or bad.


Ok I didn't realize nobody has reported on a complete bike yet. Something to think about. 

I want a tough bike that can handle small jumps or drops. I was reading about a downhill bike only because that was new to me. I like the toughness of it though. The bike was in a magazine and won best budget downhill...Canyon Torque FRX Rockzone.


----------



## FTR

Zeet said:


> While I'm all for Chinese CF, I would think it absolutely mindless to NOT think of QC issues. After all, if something were to go south with the frame, who would you legally address, and with what success. It's not so much that they're Chinese. Heck! That's where all the good stuff is located anyways. However, it is about communicating with some local liaison, who possesses the legal responsibility to interact with the consumer. In my book, that's an American bicycle company, a LBS, or some online dealer with a respectable customer service staff, located here within these contiguous United States of America.


Fear mongering again or at best misguided.
I have bought items in the past from the Good Ol' US of A that definitely should not have made it past any of their allegedly far superior QC.
It has nothing to do with where it is made.
It has everything to do with knowing who you are dealing with or at least doing decent research before jumping in.


----------



## Maximus_XXIV

FTR said:


> Fear mongering again or at best misguided.
> I have bought items in the past from the Good Ol' US of A that definitely should not have made it past any of their allegedly far superior QC.
> It has nothing to do with where it is made.
> It has everything to do with knowing who you are dealing with or at least doing decent research before jumping in.


Agreed. Have you read the Chinese frame thread? Individuals are finding QC issues with their bikes. Things that would normally be taken care of by an LBS. It has nothing to do with them being Chinese, most carbon frames are. It has more to do with cut rate pricing and skipping the middle man. This is a case lf knowing who you are buying from. That is their history, plain and simple.


----------



## Zeet

FTR said:


> Fear mongering again or at best misguided.
> I have bought items in the past from the Good Ol' US of A that definitely should not have made it past any of their allegedly far superior QC.
> It has nothing to do with where it is made.
> It has everything to do with knowing who you are dealing with or at least doing decent research before jumping in.


Accusing me of possible fear mongering is parallel to accusing the Pope of being Jewish!  ~ Dude, you absolutely need a local liaison when purchasing from abroad. That's it! That's the bottom line!


----------



## FTR

Zeet said:


> Accusing me of possible fear mongering is parallel to accusing the Pope of being Jewish!  ~ Dude, you absolutely need a local liaison when purchasing from abroad. That's it! That's the bottom line!


Ummm, well I have been doing it wrong all this time and didn't know it.
Research, research, research and research some more.
If you are happy to be reamed by the local guy then cool.
But it is a big wide world out there and shopping at your doorstep went out with the Ark.


----------



## FTR

Maximus_XXIV said:


> Agreed. Have you read the Chinese frame thread? Individuals are finding QC issues with their bikes. Things that would normally be taken care of by an LBS. It has nothing to do with them being Chinese, most carbon frames are. It has more to do with cut rate pricing and skipping the middle man. This is a case lf knowing who you are buying from. That is their history, plain and simple.


It is more than that.
It is the fact that you are buying DIRECTLY from the factory before it has passed through all of the hands where it would usually be caught and todied up before it gets to your hands.
I have seen QC issues with even high end ti frames such as needing to be completely cleaned out of media blasting material before they can be built up for a client or cases where water bottle bolts have been installed in such a way that a front derailleur had to be basically customised to fit.
Dont kid yourself that the Chinese bikes are inferior in any way shape or form to US built.
My FM098 went together with zero issues.
Much more than what I can say for 2 of my 3 US built ti frames.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

+1 research ... lots of it.

I followed one of the manufacturers listed above for sometime (4mths) reading on comments etc and found them to be very reasonable. I wanted to purchase a road frame but went with another material when I saw an opportunity on ebay. True be prepared to 'possibly' pay for additional say return postage to get the item replaced. But they will attend to complaints and work with you.

I have not come across anyone who has purchased a complete carbon framed MTB from China yet. Most users on the MTBR forum who has any dealings with Chinese carbon is only looking at wheels and to a lesser extent frames and components. 

You get a very good deal from Canyon. Components are usually high end compared to bikes around the same price from other manufacturers.

You get QC issues with any manufacturer.

It is solely based on whether you wish to deal direct with someone on the other side of the world.


----------



## bike_paul

View attachment 282221


Any ID on this frame? Some more detailed pictures can be found here.

EDIT: Apparently the frame is just a custom paint version of the 2010/2011 Revolution Integral C40T. Can't seem to find integrated versions anywhere though. Any ideas on the mold #?


----------



## Zeet

FTR said:


> Ummm, well I have been doing it wrong all this time and didn't know it.
> Research, research, research and research some more.
> If you are happy to be reamed by the local guy then cool.
> But it is a big wide world out there and shopping at your doorstep went out with the Ark.


No. Shopping far beyond your shores is risky at best and demands much trust and confidence on the part of the consumer. Besides, what's your personal stake in this and why do you appear to be the spokesperson for China Carbon? No carbon manufacturer is perfect, because all involve human beings. Therefore, QC is an absolute must and has to be proven of consistently tight specs. However, sometimes the manufacturer screws up and QC screws up, as well. A situation like that, demands local intervention where there is some legal recourse. Otherwise, folks can just ignore your plea for help, by not answering any of your emails from so far away.


----------



## FTR

Zeet said:


> No. Shopping far beyond your shores is risky at best and demands much trust and confidence on the part of the consumer.


Ummm yep.
That is basically what I said.
And through the many many many transactions I have seen I have this is what I have in the suppliers I have dealt with.



Zeet said:


> Besides, what's your personal stake in this and why do you appear to be the spokesperson for China Carbon?


Ridiculous statement. What is your personal stake in warning everyone off? Why do you appear to be a Xenophobe at the very least?




Zeet said:


> No carbon manufacturer is perfect, because all involve human beings. Therefore, QC is an absolute must and has to be proven of consistently tight specs. However, sometimes the manufacturer screws up and QC screws up, as well. A situation like that, demands local intervention where there is some legal recourse. Otherwise, folks can just ignore your plea for help, by not answering any of your emails from so far away.


If it gets screwed up and I have a warranty issue they have displayed in the past that they will deal it (if you are dealing with the well known suppliers at least). If you do not RESEARCH then yes, you are likely screwed. Even when dealing with a high end US custom builder with a distributor in your country (I live in Australia and have 2 custom ti bikes), it is often easier just to deal directly with the manufacturer than to involve the local guy. I have a friend who just had a warranty issue with his US built custom bike. Cost him $400 in shipping alone to get it fixed.


----------



## cyclistehabile

*LTK036 review*



Morwa said:


> I've read through most of this thread, but there are limited reference to the LT036 frame. Any opinions? Rider weight limit?


I am riding an LTK036 and I've been pleased with mine.

A few observations:

- The back brake mount is a bit high. I had to buy Tektro's medium reach rear brake as a set of the wheels I run (38mm carbon clinchers) require the brake to reach at least 5mm below the edge of the wheel's brake track. I was previously running SRAM Force brakes but the reach wasn't long enough. Even with a normal pair of wheels and SRAM Force brakes, the brake just barely reaches below the edge of the brake track.

- I had some difficulty getting the crown race to sit down flush on the bottom of the steerer tube/top of the fork. I think this is because the diameter of the steerer at the base is just a bit too large. Nonetheless, I managed to get it on without too much carbon fibre being incidentally shaved off. 

- They represented to me that the frame weighed 860g, but, in actuality, it weighed 970g when I weighed it at home. Again, not a huge deal, but worth noting as it was material to my decision to purchase.

- I find the geometry to be a bit awkward compared to my last bike, an Orbea Opal (54cm seat tube X 54cm top tube). For a 55cm frame, this one is quite compact. The top tube is just a bit too short for me. Of course, I tried to compensate by moving my seat back, but, in actuality, the angle of the seat tube [as referenced to the latitudinal plane] puts you just a bit too far back towards the back wheel. Therefore, where the front of my seat used to sit 21cm from the longitudinal line bisecting the middle of the bottom bracket, it now sits 24.5cm with my seat moved as far forward as it will go. It doesn't help that the stock seat post has setback. AND, I still feel like I need a longer stem (which would be a 130mm), but that would put me just a bit too far over the front wheel. Getting the 130mm stem would then require me to get a fork with a bit more rake (as the stock one doesn't have too much) so as to lengthen the wheelbase and allow me to retain similar handling up front.

As you can tell, I am a bit pedantic when it comes to the fit of the bike, however, I have really enjoyed this bike thus far. 

I have unleashed a few full-on sprints on the bike and the down tube and bottom bracket area is super stiff. Of course, this owes a great deal to its square shape. The bike generally is very stiff. Because of the short wheel base, I feel the vibrations from the road, but this seems a slight issue as the bike is so stiff, responsive and light. The bike, the way I have it built, weighs 14.5 lbs (6.5kg). I'm running an Enduro BB30 with ceramic bearings and I couldn't be happier with that decision.

Overall, I would purchase again from China and probably again from LongTeng, but, be mindful of my remarks above.


----------



## ZachUA

Hello all, I am on the hunt for a specific frame that I can't seem to positively match to its generic counterpart. Any help would be greatly appreciated! The open mold frame I am looking for is re-branded by two different companies. 

One is Ritte as the Bosberg 3.0 (however I believe they've made some changes since 2010-2011, but the original Bosberg frame was definitely from an open mold). 

Second is the Pedal Force QS3. Additionally, the pedal force CG1 may be a very very similar frame, minus some subtle difference in chain stays. (The owner of Ritte posted somewhere that the CG1 shared the same designer as their Bosberg. He went on to say that the QS3 was the same frame as the Bosberg).

Here is a link to some photos of the Bosberg:

























Here is a link to the Pedal Force Qs3 with a whole slew of photos if you click on the photos link lower right:

Pedal Force super-light carbon bicycle

As you can see the down tube is round, (aside from some slight transitioning at the headtube) all the way from the BB up to where it meets the headtube. Many of the generic frames I'm seeing folks post, such as the fm028 or fm029 seem to have a downtube that is more triangular/aero in shape as it approaches the head tube.


----------



## PaxRomana

FTR said:


> Research, research, research and research some more.
> If you are happy to be reamed by the local guy then cool.
> But it is a big wide world out there and shopping at your doorstep went out with the Ark.


Some people have a greater opportunity cost of time than you. They prefer to pay more at the shop for a product that will be locally supported because in the end they come out ahead by saving time, which is more expensive for them.

If you have the time to do the research and you feel comfortable with your purchase, good for you. But saying that people are getting "reamed" by purchasing from the local guy is completely wrong.


----------



## vivid

I'm about to order an FM066sl and have a couple of general questions about Chinese frames and one relating to the FM066sl.

1. Do most people spec a BSA or BB30? I'm leaning BB30 for its added stiffness and weight savings. Because I'm starting from scratch I don't have any compatibility issues to worry about with older gear.

2. Do most people find the headset, which can be ordered with the frame, adequate, or do you buy a separate name brand headset?

3. I saw there is a limit of 150kg and I am firmly below that at 92kg. But are there any Clydesdales who could chime in with real world feedback on ride or durability? I read on another forum it was suggested that heavier riders might want to get a stiffer seat post, but would a stiffer fork be advisable too?


----------



## roubaix_sj

*Anyone buy a BMC knock off frame ?*

There have been so many FM's and Chinarello purchases, but I'm looking into the Chinese knock off of a BMC. 

Has anyone had any experience with buying a knock off BMC ? 

I'm looking here - BMC Road Bike

Thanks for any advice.


----------



## Ride-Fly

Yea, tell us how that goes. Doubt you will get anything let alone a knock off.


----------



## love4himies

Hmmmm, that's interesting. It states I can order a BMC Roadracer in size 44 but I'm pretty sure the smallest BMC makes is 48.


----------



## bigbill

If you want a good bike that actually comes with a warranty backed by a shop, Competitive Cyclist is blowing out Fuji complete bikes, cheap.


----------



## tihsepa

love4himies said:


> Hmmmm, that's interesting. It states I can order a BMC Roadracer in size 44 but I'm pretty sure the smallest BMC makes is 48.


What difference does it make? You will most likely end up with nothing.


----------



## love4himies

tihsepa said:


> What difference does it make? You will most likely end up with nothing.


You are probably right.


----------



## tlg

delete


----------



## deepakvrao

PaxRomana said:


> Some people have a greater opportunity cost of time than you. They prefer to pay more at the shop for a product that will be locally supported because in the end they come out ahead by saving time, which is more expensive for them.
> 
> If you have the time to do the research and you feel comfortable with your purchase, good for you. But saying that people are getting "reamed" by purchasing from the local guy is completely wrong.


Absolutely.

I live in India, and if I get a bike from the US, I pay 275 shipping and 43% customs on regular retail price PLUS shipping costs. I did ship 3 bikes from the US, and bought a couple when we travelled, but now decided against any more when duty went up from 20% to 43%.

If I were living in the US, with the deals you guys get, I would always buy branded and local [to US like Comp Cyclist etc].

I'll buy a 'big brand' bike only when I travel to the US next and can get it in without shipping and duty. Unfortunately, I hate the 24 hours of travel time that it takes.


----------



## ptsbike55

I live in India, and if I get a bike from the US, I pay 275 shipping and 43% customs on regular retail price PLUS shipping costs. I did ship 3 bikes from the US, and bought a couple when we travelled, but now decided against any more when duty went up from 20% to 43%.

If I were living in the US, with the deals you guys get, I would always buy branded and local [to US like Comp Cyclist etc].

I'll buy a 'big brand' bike only when I travel to the US next and can get it in without shipping and duty. Unfortunately, I hate the 24 hours of travel time that it takes. 

How much is a round-trip flight, hotels, and food cost?


----------



## Infinite

This site is an absolute RIP OFF!!!

Notice the one stock picture for each bike. As one other person has mentioned, sizes are inaccurate for the bike. 

Did look promising, kind of like going to the swap meet for "Ralph Loren"... Oops it is spelled wrong, but hey... Who cares. Would have done it in a heartbeat if it were legit,can't lie... But this site is a rip off!




roubaix_sj said:


> There have been so many FM's and Chinarello purchases, but I'm looking into the Chinese knock off of a BMC.
> 
> Has anyone had any experience with buying a knock off BMC ?
> 
> I'm looking here - BMC Road Bike
> 
> Thanks for any advice.


----------



## Gjash

I would avoid bb30 if I had to do it again. Maintaining BSA is so much easier than bb30. As much as I can tell the bb30 standard was made to reduce costs for manufacturers and not for the benefit of end users. 



vivid said:


> I'm about to order an FM066sl and have a couple of general questions about Chinese frames and one relating to the FM066sl.
> 
> 1. Do most people spec a BSA or BB30? I'm leaning BB30 for its added stiffness and weight savings. Because I'm starting from scratch I don't have any compatibility issues to worry about with older gear.
> 
> 2. Do most people find the headset, which can be ordered with the frame, adequate, or do you buy a separate name brand headset?
> 
> 3. I saw there is a limit of 150kg and I am firmly below that at 92kg. But are there any Clydesdales who could chime in with real world feedback on ride or durability? I read on another forum it was suggested that heavier riders might want to get a stiffer seat post, but would a stiffer fork be advisable too?


----------



## mrcreosote

roubaix_sj said:


> There have been so many FM's and Chinarello purchases, but I'm looking into the Chinese knock off of a BMC.
> 
> Has anyone had any experience with buying a knock off BMC ?
> 
> I'm looking here - BMC Road Bike
> 
> Thanks for any advice.


the contact address is

Jl. Dr Semeru No 13
Bogor - Jawa Barat
16112
Indonesia

And Indonesia is such a presence in world cycling, they have the buying power to force the high end and boutique manufacturers to cut prices so the Indonesians can all be out there on their BMCs and Cervelos and Pinarellos.

In short, are you really that much of a complete and utter moron, or do you only play one here in the forums?


----------



## persondude27

Easy there. There is a group of people who regularly buy from Alibaba, which is about 20-30% scams.

gjash: They claim that BB30 reduces weight and increases stiffness... I just don't want my bike to creak on every pedal stroke.


----------



## roubaix_sj

mrcreosote said:


> the contact address is
> 
> Jl. Dr Semeru No 13
> Bogor - Jawa Barat
> 16112
> Indonesia
> 
> And Indonesia is such a presence in world cycling, they have the buying power to force the high end and boutique manufacturers to cut prices so the Indonesians can all be out there on their BMCs and Cervelos and Pinarellos.
> 
> In short, are you really that much of a complete and utter moron, or do you only play one here in the forums?


 I am merely asking a question. I hope you seek professional help as you apparently have anger management issues.


----------



## Gjash

My bb30 doesn't creak but it sure fills up with grit when it rains. I've got to pull cranks anytime I get caught in the rain. 



persondude27 said:


> Easy there. There is a group of people who regularly buy from Alibaba, which is about 20-30% scams.
> 
> gjash: They claim that BB30 reduces weight and increases stiffness... I just don't want my bike to creak on every pedal stroke.


----------



## McGilli

persondude27 said:


> There is a group of people who regularly buy from Alibaba, which is about 20-30% scams.


Hey everyone.

Is there a thread or forum which details the scams - and or which sellers are not to be trusted? Like all in one easy to read place where you don't have to sift through so many pages...

I've recently purchased two items through two sellers on Aliexpress and had great results - but I'd be interested in what to watch out for on there since I am looking to make another purchase soon.

thanks.


----------



## maxxevv

Aliexpress and Alibaba are sister sites but the way they function is somewhat different. Aliexpress is more catered to consumers, hence they are administered a lot like Ebay, Alibaba is more a business site, so its a lot less controlled, hence more likely to get into frauds there.


----------



## Coolhand

McGilli said:


> Hey everyone.
> 
> Is there a thread or forum which details the scams - and or which sellers are not to be trusted? Like all in one easy to read place where you don't have to sift through so many pages...
> 
> I've recently purchased two items through two sellers on Aliexpress and had great results - but I'd be interested in what to watch out for on there since I am looking to make another purchase soon.
> 
> thanks.


Check out the Classified Feedback - Scam Warnings forum here for starters.


----------



## rich24

Any information on carbon road frame disc brake compatible?

Thanks


----------



## nickk.

Im really interested in buying a chinese carbon frame. The only problem I will possible face is that I am a bit heavy, 90kg. Can someone give advice which frame is the stiffest? I like the FM029 and FM066 from Dengfu and the FM015 from Hongfu. If someone can share his or her experiences regarding the stiffness of the frames, I would be grateful.


----------



## mrcreosote

roubaix_sj said:


> I am merely asking a question. I hope you seek professional help as you apparently have anger management issues.


No, just "don't suffer fools gladly". There is a reason for the aphorism "If it looks too good to be true, it probably is.". You shouldn't even have needed to ask the question if you had a modicum of common sense.


----------



## YOLO

Hi all,

I've been researching bicycle frames and I've recently come across this crazy world of Chinese carbon fiber bikes! All these sites like Dengfu are amazing to me. I'm considering purchasing a frame from Dengfu (the FM098). I currently ride a Specialized Allez and the FM098 appears to have a stringkingly similar geometry (can anyone confirm that they are the same mold?). Questions I have:

1. How much do these frames usually run?
2. If I want the frame to have a custom paint job, do I design it myself, or are there preconfigured paint samples to choose from?
3. Where would I go about getting decals for the bike?
4. Would it be possible to just transfer over the Shimano 105 components from my Allez onto the new frame?
5. How much do the carbon wheelsets on those Chinese sites run? They seem to match the bike pretty well.

Sorry for all the ignorance--I've been reading through this thread during my free time and I've yet to get through the entire thing!
Thanks in advance.


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn

YOLO said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've been researching bicycle frames and I've recently come across this crazy world of Chinese carbon fiber bikes! All these sites like Dengfu are amazing to me. I'm considering purchasing a frame from Dengfu (the FM098). I currently ride a Specialized Allez and the FM098 appears to have a stringkingly similar geometry (can anyone confirm that they are the same mold?). Questions I have:
> 
> 1. How much do these frames usually run?
> 2. If I want the frame to have a custom paint job, do I design it myself, or are there preconfigured paint samples to choose from?
> 3. Where would I go about getting decals for the bike?
> 4. Would it be possible to just transfer over the Shimano 105 components from my Allez onto the new frame?
> 5. How much do the carbon wheelsets on those Chinese sites run? They seem to match the bike pretty well.
> 
> Sorry for all the ignorance--I've been reading through this thread during my free time and I've yet to get through the entire thing!
> Thanks in advance.


You said you have been researching, and you said the sites are amazing. Most of your questions should have already been answered by visiting the sites that you said you visited.


----------



## hcarreathers

YOLO said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've been researching bicycle frames and I've recently come across this crazy world of Chinese carbon fiber bikes! All these sites like Dengfu are amazing to me. I'm considering purchasing a frame from Dengfu (the FM098). I currently ride a Specialized Allez and the FM098 appears to have a stringkingly similar geometry (can anyone confirm that they are the same mold?). Questions I have:
> 
> 1. How much do these frames usually run?
> 2. If I want the frame to have a custom paint job, do I design it myself, or are there preconfigured paint samples to choose from?
> 3. Where would I go about getting decals for the bike?
> 4. Would it be possible to just transfer over the Shimano 105 components from my Allez onto the new frame?
> 5. How much do the carbon wheelsets on those Chinese sites run? They seem to match the bike pretty well.
> 
> Sorry for all the ignorance--I've been reading through this thread during my free time and I've yet to get through the entire thing!
> Thanks in advance.


It seems that there are answers to these questions here somewhere, but I understand, they are buried deep. I'll try to answer with what I remember seeing myself as well as my own research.
1. I'd say $4-600
2. I think a lot of companies have designs for their frames. You can design your own but it needs to be original.
3. There's a guy called Marco from Brazil that people get decals from.
4. It should be doable. Make sure your seat post sizes match and that you order the same BB
5. Carbon wheels seem to run $5-600. You can read a whole thread just like this in the wheels forum. 

Have fun!


----------



## DCash

nickk. said:


> Im really interested in buying a chinese carbon frame. The only problem I will possible face is that I am a bit heavy, 90kg. Can someone give advice which frame is the stiffest? I like the FM029 and FM066 from Dengfu and the FM015 from Hongfu. If someone can share his or her experiences regarding the stiffness of the frames, I would be grateful.


I was at 88kg when I ordered my frame. I asked Jane at Hong Fu about weight limits on the FM015 and FM066; she didn't give a limit but said both where fine for my weight. I purchased a FM015 with a BSA bottom bracket and built it up with sram rival, it's stiff! Even standing in the big ring on my trainer I don't get any flex. The thin seat stays help dampen road chatter. Only possible issue is the short head tube makes for a very aggressive riding position. Took about two hundred miles to get used to it and still get a little sore in my back on rides over 4 hours. 

Reading reviews on velobuild.com several users have complained of flex on the FM066 and FM066SL down to 70kg. 

FM015 is usually $200-300 cheaper.


----------



## amedal

amedal said:


> Just out of curiosity...
> 
> What brand/model frame does DengFu's FM-018 frame replicate?
> 
> Thanx!
> A


Anybody got info on the above?


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn

What do ou guys think about this one? I emailed them to see it it will take full hydro or cable housings to the rear and I asked for a geo chart. At 5'9", I'm guessing a size 55.
FR602 Full Carbon 3K Cyclocross Cross Bike Frame BSA Fork 51cm 53cm 55cm 57cm | eBay


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn

Don't all reply at once now!


----------



## YOLO

So I emailed Dengfu Bikes about the FM028 and FM098 frames, and here's Tony's response: 
_"Thanks for your kindly email 
__Price for road frame fm028 is $440, and fm098 is $458, both frame include fork/frame/seatpost._

_And both frame fit for headset sizes 1 1/8" to 1 1/2",headset need $14_
_Yes, we can offer custom paint, if you need it, we can help you. thanks!"_

Sorry if my questions have been answered, but is there a chart somewhere that compares the Chinese frames to their branded counterparts? From what I've researched, the FM028 can be compared to a Trek Madone and the FM098 is similar to the Specialized Venge. Can anyone confirm this? I like the geometry of my Allez, and I'd like to get a frame that's as comfortable (maybe even moreso).
I've been reading that the FM028 has a more upright geometry, leading to a more comfortable ride. Are all you guys purchasing the FM028 because of this, or simply because it looks nice?

Also, the carbon wheels from Carbonzone on eBay are around $250--are these wheels fast and sturdy? Thanks!


----------



## Mountain Cycle Shawn

This place has some pretty nice looking rims.
light bicycle-carbon frame,carbon rim,carbon wheel,carbon wheelset,carbon mountain bike,carbon road bike Light-Bicycle


----------



## Maglore

YOLO said:


> Sorry if my questions have been answered, but is there a chart somewhere that compares the Chinese frames to their branded counterparts? From what I've researched, the FM028 can be compared to a Trek Madone and the FM098 is similar to the Specialized Venge. Can anyone confirm this? I like the geometry of my Allez, and I'd like to get a frame that's as comfortable (maybe even moreso).
> I've been reading that the FM028 has a more upright geometry, leading to a more comfortable ride. Are all you guys purchasing the FM028 because of this, or simply because it looks nice?
> 
> Also, the carbon wheels from Carbonzone on eBay are around $250--are these wheels fast and sturdy? Thanks!


Forget about the FM028 and FM098 being equivalent to any 'branded counterparts'. Both frames are open mould and not copies of any other frame, although they may bare a resemblance to existing ones. But then, you could say that about a ton of branded frames too! People say that the FM098 looks like a Venge, but it actually looks more like a Kuota Kharma but is different to either.

Geometries for both of the Chinese frames you mentioned are freely available if you look. Try using a search engine which rhymes with 'moogle'.


----------



## applebaconator

Saw this on carbonzone's ebay page before. Not sure which FM model this is. Can anyone confirm if this is the FM015?

Also I think the ISP seat mast or topper is kind of ugly. Can anyone confirm the size of the seat mast or topper tube? Is it 34.9mm? Would the Woodman IT-Ti one with 25mm offset from Amazon work?

And what's the closest branded bike equivalent in terms of geometry and design for this frame?

View attachment 282909
View attachment 282910


----------



## DCash

applebaconator said:


> Saw this on carbonzone's ebay page before. Not sure which FM model this is. Can anyone confirm if this is the FM015?
> 
> Also I think the ISP seat mast or topper is kind of ugly. Can anyone confirm the size of the seat mast or topper tube? Is it 34.9mm? Would the Woodman IT-Ti one with 25mm offset from Amazon work?
> 
> And what's the closest branded bike equivalent in terms of geometry and design for this frame?
> 
> View attachment 282909
> View attachment 282910


It's a FM028(newest version is the FM029A). You'll probably get a better price if you contact Deng Fu directly. It should be 34.9mm but you should confirm with the seller. 

This is an open mould frame designed by a Chinese manufacturer. Closest mass market brand in the 2010 trek madone.


----------



## 1805078

You can actually get this frame now with the gear cables running inside the frame rather then along the outside of the down tube. Once again talk with Deng Fu as I think they have it as well


----------



## turbogrover

Maximus_XXIV said:


> Are you looking for a cheap carbon bike? I would find a bike shop that is willing to build it or check it over before you ride it because the one issue of the Chinese buying process is QC based on what I researched. I really do not think it should be done by someone who is not a competent mechanic because carbon is not overly forgiving of mistakes.
> 
> I would go used or pick up a clearance bike at an LBS.


I have a hard time finding a competent bike mechanic at any of my local LBS's.
The two or three I might trust are still more interested in selling what brands their shop carries, than providing honest, or informed opinions.


----------



## rapgameguyfieri

Does anyone have much experience with the Chinese carbon seatposts, stems, and handlebars? I'm thinking of upgrading from some heavier/flexy aluminium stuff I have now and these seem really inexpensive for what they are.


----------



## MikeM95831

*Hongfu messed up my order*

Well, this is aggravating.

And I got it worked out.

Never mind, FM001 is on its way.


----------



## persondude27

rapgameguyfieri said:


> Does anyone have much experience with the Chinese carbon seatposts, stems, and handlebars? I'm thinking of upgrading from some heavier/flexy aluminium stuff I have now and these seem really inexpensive for what they are.


When I bought my FM015 from Hong-fu two years ago, I ordered a stem, seatpost, bars, and cages. Unfortunately, they were all mediocre at best. However, that was two years ago and from one seller - there are tons of things on Aliexpress that I'm interested in (namely, aero road bars that look a lot like the Zipp Vuka and an unbranded EC90 stem...). I would love to see a review on those.

My cheap stem has a lip on it that prevents it from sitting flush on the spacers, and it's 160g and soggy. My 128g Ritchey aluminum is twice as stiff. The bars were okay - not stiff, but the weight was bearable. I didn't like the shape. The seatpost was actually good - I just needed a setback. The bottle cages CAN be ok - make sure to get one with a HUGE bottom tab (where the bottom of the bottle rests). The ones that are shaped like the Arundale worked best for me.


----------



## Tylerwyler

*Important...anyone ordered anything from China or thinking about it....*

I have gotten so much great information from this website and I now need to pay it forward. My other “hobby” is my motorcycle. I ordered a DOT approved carbon fiber helmet from China and after waiting a few weeks…I received a Notice of Detention from US Customs. I called the number on the notice and was told that the helmet had been confiscated because they tested several of them and 40% had failed the test. 
Here’s where it get’s interesting…..The Customs Agent I spoke to said that they have been noticing a lot of carbon fiber sporting goods being shipped through as mail, FEDEX, DHL and EMS over the past 3 years. They suspect that most of the shipments are being undervalued, but right now they are going to focus on the safety related products.
I asked him if they are going to go back and prosecute and he said they have a lot of time for that…..I told him it was not the importers fault, it is the company in China that is declaring a lower value.
He told me that all of the questions regarding importing from other countries are on their website.
Here is what I found out. If an item is undervalued, the penalty is full payment at retail value. The Statute of Limitations is 5 year for them to prosecute. It is ALWAYS the importer that is responsible, even if the exporter priced it incorrectly. Their reasoning is …that the importer knows what they paid for the merchandise and can see the value listed when it is shipped.
This is the first and last time I am going to post. I am just letting everyone know about my conversation. You all need to realize what department the US Customs and Immigration falls under. My personal feeling are they will not prosecute since it was not the importer that asked for this to be done. However, if you were to do it two times that would be another matter. They can easily label you as a smuggler and prosecute you or at the very least give you hell while travelling… Take your chances…


----------



## aclinjury

While I agree China does a lot of shady things.

But you're trumping scare tactics if you want me to beleive that US Customs will have the resources to go after individuals buying a helmet or bicycle frame from China. IF somehow by some miracle such prosecution even takes place and goes to court, the judge would laugh in at the Govt for wasting such resources taking a case involving a helmet or bicycle frame to court.

I think you work for Specialized or one of big makes, and you're beating the scare tactic theme. Glad it was be your last post! Nice first and last post buddy.

Note to self: be on the lookout for Specialized trolls


----------



## ihs0y.

*Advice needed!!*

*HELP!!! *

Hi everyone, first time on this forum and I'll be having my first post here!
Really brief intro, I'm from Malaysia, you can call me John.
So I've been doing quite a bit of research on chinese carbon frames and decided to build one up on a really tight budget.

Last week, I bought the MC053 from Miracle Carbon (_Did anyone know Miracle Bikes and Miracle Carbon are somehow different? I didn't until I mistaken the models each offered!_), spec'd with UD weave in matte, BSA BB, non-ISP and in size 50.
It arrived really quickly and tracking on the EMS website was very reliable!
Shipped out of Shenzhen on the 19th, arrived at the local hub on the 21st and shipped out domestically and picked up on the 22nd.
Only three days as you can see. But I only had the chance to drop everything off at the LBS on the 23rd.

The LBS called me about 3 hours after dropping it off and it was *bad news*.
They told me they couldn't route the cable internally through the chainstay, like there was a _blocking._ I didn't give it much thought and just told him I'd drop by the next day. So I did, and things didn't look so nice.

My main contact from Miracle Carbon was _Mecy_. She's a pleasure to deal with, I'd start off with that. I emailed her about my problems and she seemed very reluctant to provide me with some help. After a few exchange of emails and according to her 'engineers', they told me to try again.

I went back to the LBS the day later and _tried again_. But no luck at all, there's a point in the chainstay where it is COMPLETELY blocked right before the BB.

I'm not sure if I should consider this a frame defect yet but I have *never* read of anything like this anywhere on the internet. 

I uploaded a video for Mecy, hoping she and her 'engineers' can help rectify the issue. I'm still waiting on an answer.

*TL;DR:
*I'm having some internal cable routing problems with a recently bought frame, specifically the rear derailleur routing through the chainstay. A COMPLETE blockage. 
I uploaded a video on youtube mainly for Mecy to view but it's now for you guys too. Link right below:

Internal cable routing blocked - YouTube

*I'd GREATLY appreciate some insight from some experienced guys out there. *:cryin:
I've only been into road biking for a year and this is my second road bike. First one being an absolute entry level bike (_alu frame, shimano 2300 groupset, mavic cxp22 rims 32h/32h, plastic clip pedals, you get the point)_.

Please don't hesitate to contact me personally if you feel you can provide help!!


----------



## arevuar

ihs0y. said:


> *HELP!!! *
> 
> Hi everyone, first time on this forum and I'll be having my first post here!
> Really brief intro, I'm from Malaysia, you can call me John.
> So I've been doing quite a bit of research on chinese carbon frames and decided to build one up on a really tight budget.
> 
> ......


Try to stretch the cable, not the cover.
There is a special cable cover for internal routing. Something like this (a thin tube)..
View attachment 283096

You must use that tube in the frame, and usual cable cover outside the frame.


----------



## ihs0y.

arevuar said:


> Try to stretch the cable, not the cover


I tried that too, it didn't go through. 
Mecy sent me some pictures as guidelines and it shows the cable cover going through from headtube down the down tube, through the BB and out the chainstay.
I'm not very clear with techniques used in internal cabling though..

EDIT:
Sorry! Just saw your edit. I see what you mean but the internal tube in the frame isn't exactly there either. It's just the opening from rear der into chainstay and the whole thing is hollow.


----------



## arevuar

if you route the cable
View attachment 283097
from the other side result is the same?


----------



## ihs0y.

arevuar said:


> if you route the cable from the other side result is the same?


Indeed. It stops going through at the same spot if I tried going from BB to chainstay.


----------



## arevuar

Then try changing your frame! Good luck!


----------



## ms6073

ihs0y. said:


> Indeed. It stops going through at the same spot if I tried going from BB to chainstay.


As others have indicated, I don't think that the cable housing is supposed to be run full length and instead should use a cable ferule/stop at the head tube and rear dropout and use cables with liners such as Gore RideOn. 

As for routing the cable, when you look into the opening of the bottom bracket shell, can you see the holes where the cable/liner would route through that part of the frame? If so I would suggest using spare derailleur cables, inserting each one into the holes in the bottom bracket and 'fish' it through to the exit at the head tube and rear dropout. With the cable fished through, you can then slide the cable liner back over the cable and through the frame.


----------



## lostPixels

Anyone find Chinese carbon track specific frames?


----------



## McGilli

lostPixels said:


> Anyone find Chinese carbon track specific frames?


Hey! What do you mean by find them? Aliexpress is filled with carbon track frames - and most or all of the companies mentioned in this thread also sell carbon track frames.

Edit: Yep - I just went to all the major websites and they all are selling track frames still....


----------



## lostPixels

I tried Hongfu and they're selling TT frames... I believe that while those frames have horizontal dropouts, the width of a track hub is different than what they are set up to use.


----------



## McGilli

lostPixels said:


> I tried Hongfu and they're selling TT frames... I believe that while those frames have horizontal dropouts, the width of a track hub is different than what they are set up to use.


But they have a different section for TT frames and Track frames.... Same with Dengfu. 

also - just look on aliexpress.com for carbon track frame....

BTW I got my carbon track frames from PX & XDS Carbon - who sells high volume only - but you can buy their track frames from Planet X (just with PX markings on it)... Got one of each and they are identical - and great!

XDS:


PX:


----------



## lostPixels

Nice, thanks man! How do you like your frame??


----------



## ttakata73

I was interested in the new Dengfu FM166 road disc frame so I emailed them and Tony replied with this.

"Price for disc road frame fm166 is $660, fork/frame/seatpost included
fit for headset sizes 1 1/8" to 1 1/2",headset need $14"

I asked if their carbon resin is UV stable and got no reply.
Does anyone know if these bike have UV stable resins?
If not they will weaken in the sun.

http://stuff.mit.edu/afs/athena.mit.../slides/J_Composite_Materials2002v36p2713.pdf

If the FM166 was under $500 I would try it, but at $660, I see Chinese titaniums for $~1000.


----------



## Tylerwyler

aclinjury said:


> While I agree China does a lot of shady things.
> 
> But you're trumping scare tactics if you want me to beleive that US Customs will have the resources to go after individuals buying a helmet or bicycle frame from China. IF somehow by some miracle such prosecution even takes place and goes to court, the judge would laugh in at the Govt for wasting such resources taking a case involving a helmet or bicycle frame to court.
> 
> I think you work for Specialized or one of big makes, and you're beating the scare tactic theme. Glad it was be your last post! Nice first and last post buddy.
> 
> Note to self: be on the lookout for Specialized trolls


Ur an idiot. All they have to do is prosecute five people and they will stop thousands of people...or scare those ordering and they will request those Chinese companies to stop under invoicing....it is an easy win win for customs...


----------



## stevesbike

how would they determine the "retail value" of an imported frame if it never sells in a retail store in the US? Also, isn't the value for an importer wholesale value? That doesn't seem to make sense - wouldn't they have to determine what the importer in fact paid for the item and note any discrepancy between that price and the stated price on the import invoice?


----------



## Randy99CL

The two small packages I've received from China, and one from Taiwan, weren't opened by customs. No problem, no fault, no foul.


----------



## davegregoire

I have received around 15 packages from china. All delivered unmolested by customs. Everything from handlebars to bike frames.


----------



## mrcreosote

lostPixels said:


> I tried Hongfu and they're selling TT frames... I believe that while those frames have horizontal dropouts, the width of a track hub is different than what they are set up to use.


Track and Single-Speed Frame,Products

:mad2:


----------



## Tylerwyler

stevesbike said:


> how would they determine the "retail value" of an imported frame if it never sells in a retail store in the US? Also, isn't the value for an importer wholesale value? That doesn't seem to make sense - wouldn't they have to determine what the importer in fact paid for the item and note any discrepancy between that price and the stated price on the import invoice?


Wow, you guys really think it is that difficult for customs to determine the value ?. Do you really think $50 for a frame and a set of carbon rims is realistic?. All I can say is go online and do the research. All they care about is that the value you are paying is not the value being declared. This affects values $200 and more. When the value you pay and the value declared is not the same, then it is illegal. Personally, to save a few bucks is just not worth the hell they can put you through. You ever been through an audit?. Very easy for them to determine what you actually pAid. That can also assign a value ....it is called a valuation.


----------



## rbart4506

ttakata73 said:


> I was interested in the new Dengfu FM166 road disc frame so I emailed them and Tony replied with this.
> 
> "Price for disc road frame fm166 is $660, fork/frame/seatpost included
> fit for headset sizes 1 1/8" to 1 1/2",headset need $14"
> 
> I asked if their carbon resin is UV stable and got no reply.
> Does anyone know if these bike have UV stable resins?
> If not they will weaken in the sun.
> 
> http://stuff.mit.edu/afs/athena.mit.../slides/J_Composite_Materials2002v36p2713.pdf
> 
> If the FM166 was under $500 I would try it, but at $660, I see Chinese titaniums for $~1000.


Just slather some sunscreen on that baby...

I laugh at what some people worry about...We ride on the road, remember


----------



## FTR

You bought a HELMET from China?
And then you call aclinjury an idiot??


----------



## persondude27

ttakata73 said:


> I was interested in the new Dengfu FM166 road disc frame so I emailed them and Tony replied with this.
> 
> "Price for disc road frame fm166 is $660, fork/frame/seatpost included
> fit for headset sizes 1 1/8" to 1 1/2",headset need $14"
> 
> I asked if their carbon resin is UV stable and got no reply.
> Does anyone know if these bike have UV stable resins?
> If not they will weaken in the sun.
> 
> http://stuff.mit.edu/afs/athena.mit.../slides/J_Composite_Materials2002v36p2713.pdf
> 
> If the FM166 was under $500 I would try it, but at $660, I see Chinese titaniums for $~1000.


From my understanding, this is the purpose of clearcoat / paint. They block UV from degrading the carbon.

Similarly, that's 1000 hr of UV radiation. If you get 1000 hrs in under three seasons, you deserve a new frame anyway.


----------



## McGilli

lostPixels said:


> Nice, thanks man! How do you like your frame??


It's an excellent frame. I can see why PX uses it - but at the same time - I'm perplexed as to why it's such a rare frame design. I have to admit though - it makes it nice as it stands out among the more common designs you see for track bikes. And I haven't gone to a velodrome yet and not seen a PX bike on hand.

When I look on aliexpress at all the carbon track frames - there is basically 2 designs used by every vendor - and this is not one of them.

PX is on what they call Version 2 of the frame now. I have an XDS Version 1 - and a PX Version 2. The main difference now is with the seat post. It was very common to get seat post slip on version 1. Carbon paste and the like was needed to prevent it. V2 has a cutout on the frame where the seat post goes in - basically allowing for much tighter clamping of the post. 

That's the only major difference I can see. Different adjusters in the dropouts, but that's so minor. Great frame, and if you want a china carbon that stands out - even though it's branded as PX it's the way to go imo.

Good luck.


----------



## McGilli

persondude27 said:


> From my understanding, this is the purpose of clearcoat / paint. They block UV from degrading the carbon.


Yeah same idea as the clear coats on vehicles...


----------



## exracer

FTR said:


> You bought a HELMET from China?
> And then you call aclinjury an idiot??


Well it's always easier to call someone else an idiot rather than yourself for buying a carbon fiber motorcycle helmet from unknown company you know nothing about just to save a few bucks.

That is why I don't order anything from china. There maybe nothing wrong with the product other than it's a no name brand and if you are fine with that, then go for it. Chances are that it hasn't gone through Snell or DOT testing. Personally I'd have my doubts about it's durability and whether I could get it replaced if it failed. I'd rather save my pennies and get something from a reputable company like: Arai, Shoei or AGV. Same goes for bike frames. I'd rather get a Merckx, Ridley or Cyfac rather than something from Fu manchu Bikes because it a third the price.


----------



## FTR

exracer said:


> Well it's always easier to call someone else an idiot rather than yourself for buying a carbon fiber motorcycle helmet from unknown company you know nothing about just to save a few bucks.
> 
> That is why I don't order anything from china. There maybe nothing wrong with the product other than it's a no name brand and if you are fine with that, then go for it. Chances are that it hasn't gone through Snell or DOT testing. Personally I'd have my doubts about it's durability and whether I could get it replaced if it failed. I'd rather save my pennies and get something from a reputable company like: Arai, Shoei or AGV. Same goes for bike frames. I'd rather get a Merckx, Ridley or Cyfac rather than something from Fu manchu Bikes because it a third the price.


Well I dont subscribe to that fear mongering (especially given that much of the stuff you are talking about is made in China anyway and they are the worlds no 1 supplier of high end CF products), but I draw the line at helmets.
As for the replacement. Who cares.
At a 3rd the price you have to break 3 before you are out of pocket.


----------



## Peterjvh

persondude27 said:


> From my understanding, this is the purpose of clearcoat / paint. They block UV from degrading the carbon.
> 
> Similarly, that's 1000 hr of UV radiation. If you get 1000 hrs in under three seasons, you deserve a new frame anyway.


Not to nitpick, but one reason might be to protect the resin. Carbon in itself is often used to protect from UV, for example the use "carbon black" powder for UV protection in tires, HDPE pipe, etc.


----------



## onepointone

I ordered a FM098, bottle cages, handle bar, and a 60mm wheel set from Dengfu (Kathy) about two weeks ago. I got an email from Kathy last Tuesday that everything but the wheelset was being shipped out, and the wheels would go out next week. She gave me a tracking number for the frame package, but ever since Tuesday all it says is that it processed through the sorting facility in Shenzhen, China. The tracking number works in EMS and USPS, but has not updated since then.

Anyone else had an similar experiences with the tracking and them sending two separate packages?


----------



## roborovski007

just busted my first road bike frame, would like to get one of the chinese carbon frame. Anyone can recommend me a reliable vendor and a specific model please ? Thank you.


----------



## rbart4506

onepointone said:


> I ordered a FM098, bottle cages, handle bar, and a 60mm wheel set from Dengfu (Kathy) about two weeks ago. I got an email from Kathy last Tuesday that everything but the wheelset was being shipped out, and the wheels would go out next week. She gave me a tracking number for the frame package, but ever since Tuesday all it says is that it processed through the sorting facility in Shenzhen, China. The tracking number works in EMS and USPS, but has not updated since then.
> 
> Anyone else had an similar experiences with the tracking and them sending two separate packages?


Don't worry about the tracking...

I've ordered a ton of stuff into Canada using Royal Mail(UK)/US Postal and the tracking numbers never really told me much except that the package was on it's way...

If it's showing up it will get to you. Remember, it may get held in customs for a bit...


----------



## deepakvrao

onepointone said:


> I ordered a FM098, bottle cages, handle bar, and a 60mm wheel set from Dengfu (Kathy) about two weeks ago. I got an email from Kathy last Tuesday that everything but the wheelset was being shipped out, and the wheels would go out next week. She gave me a tracking number for the frame package, but ever since Tuesday all it says is that it processed through the sorting facility in Shenzhen, China. The tracking number works in EMS and USPS, but has not updated since then.
> 
> Anyone else had an similar experiences with the tracking and them sending two separate packages?


Kathy gave me a tracking number which never worked. I was leaving for Europe and needed to get the frame before I left. Finally after many mails, she corrected the tracking number and I found that the frame had reached India in 6 days [including a weekend] from China, and it was sitting in my local customs office for 9 days. Went and got it released in a day.


----------



## exracer

FTR said:


> Well I dont subscribe to that fear mongering (especially given that much of the stuff you are talking about is made in China anyway and they are the worlds no 1 supplier of high end CF products), but I draw the line at helmets.
> As for the replacement. Who cares.
> At a 3rd the price you have to break 3 before you are out of pocket.


Neither do I. It is true that alot of high quality frames are coming out of China but Cyfac and Sarto produce their own frames. I believe Merckx was producing the EMX-7 and EMX-5 in house from what I read but that was 1+/- year ago. Shoei and Arai are made in Japan but I believe HJC is made in China. Nothing wrong with the top of the line of HJC helmets but my first choice would be Arai or Shoei. By the same token I would rather have 1 Cyfac vs 3 frames from Fu manchu bikes. Someone who has a reputation craftsmanship, ride, handling vs an unknown quantity. Let me think.

Another thing that you can put on my list of things I would not buy from a unknown company from China would motorcycle tires. In the last review of such tires I read; the best thing they said was they were black and round. They were cheap. About a third as much as the best Dunlops or Pirellis but they provided as much traction as riding on bare rims. Just what you want when your ass is on the line.


----------



## FTR

I have had plenty of high end bikes in my life, but there is no way I will pay high end prices for moulded CF frames.
If I am going to spend big $ it will be for hand built steel or ti.

I cannot believe that European CF moulders are any better or worse than Chinese CF moulders.


----------



## MikeM95831

My frame arrived in San Francisco on 6/29, and EMS's last status update is: "Handed over to customs."

It's probably a lot more ominous than it sounds. However, I looked up the import duty schedule anyway; the seller put on a claimed value of $133. Assuming Customs accepts that estimate, the import duty should be under $6 -- their schedules say, "Frames under $600, 3.9%".

If they decide to more fully investigate this, it should result in a $410 valuation, at 3.9%... Under $20.


----------



## MikeM95831

I few years ago, I bought a pretty nice set of wheels -- 105 hubs, DT spokes, Open Pro rims -- on a closeout deal, from Wiggle. I received them in a week, for $180, including shipping. I would never have built those wheels for that price.

No duty.


----------



## Tylerwyler

MikeM95831 said:


> My frame arrived in San Francisco on 6/29, and EMS's last status update is: "Handed over to customs."
> 
> It's probably a lot more ominous than it sounds. However, I looked up the import duty schedule anyway; the seller put on a claimed value of $133. Assuming Customs accepts that estimate, the import duty should be under $6 -- their schedules say, "Frames under $600, 3.9%".
> 
> If they decide to more fully investigate this, it should result in a $410 valuation, at 3.9%... Under $20.


Seems like no one understands what I am trying to get across. I am not implying that the quality is not good or the prices are not cheap.

Because the companies in china are not declaring the amount they are selling the products to you, you could get into a lot of serious problems. If the amount you paid to that company in china was not the same value declared, the penalty will be that you will have to pay the full value of your frame (penalty) and then have to pay the correct duty. You do not get a second chance. If you are caught, you just don't say...ok charge me the correct amount now......you are way past that point.


----------



## Tylerwyler

FTR said:


> Well I dont subscribe to that fear mongering (especially given that much of the stuff you are talking about is made in China anyway and they are the worlds no 1 supplier of high end CF products), but I draw the line at helmets.
> As for the replacement. Who cares.
> At a 3rd the price you have to break 3 before you are out of pocket.


The problem is not the quality or the price....that is a completely different argument. The problem is that the companies in china are declaring a value under $200. This is the cutoff for items being charged duty. If you pay $400+ for rims, frames and they declare $50 and send as a sample or gift and you are caught....then you will have he'll to pay. You don't just say sorry and pay the correct amount, you are fined, pay the correct duty and who knows...may even have a record. So if you decide you are going through the airport and they give you hell.....maybe you will know and understand why...


----------



## mikerp

Tylerwyler said:


> The problem is not the quality or the price....that is a completely different argument. The problem is that the companies in china are declaring a value under $200. This is the cutoff for items being charged duty. If you pay $400+ for rims, frames and they declare $50 and send as a sample or gift and you are caught....then you will have he'll to pay. You don't just say sorry and pay the correct amount, you are fined, pay the correct duty and who knows...may even have a record. So if you decide you are going through the airport and they give you hell.....maybe you will know and understand why...


Per my search of imports, the duty for a frame is 3.9%. So a $500 frame has a duty of less than $20. If you are worried about it just pay the duty, or buy from a US distributor that has the product in the country. The other option have the seller charge for it, I have my shirts made to measure in HK, the cost of the shirt includes shipping and duty.

As for being fined, show a case where this has happened. (IE an individual buys one frame for personal use in a years time period).


----------



## mikerp

Tylerwyler said:


> If the amount you paid to that company in china was not the same value declared, the penalty will be that you will have to pay the full value of your frame (penalty) and then have to pay the correct duty. You do not get a second chance. If you are caught, you just don't say...ok charge me the correct amount now......you are way past that point.


Where are you coming up with this?
Here's reality:
Shipping through the USPS, the items will be subject to inspection, customs will determine if it is correct or not and they may apply an import fee.
If you ship with a carrier (FedEx, DHL, etc) they process the customs forms and charge you a broker fee (the item may not even be subject to import but they will collect for determining this).
If you repeatedly try to bring items into the country and are part of a conspiracy to avoid import duties you will be charged.

In your case you brought in a cheap helmet that doesn't met safety standards and is incorrectly marked (FRAUD), this is why they stopped your helmet.


----------



## DCash

Tylerwyler said:


> The problem is not the quality or the price....that is a completely different argument. The problem is that the companies in china are declaring a value under $200. This is the cutoff for items being charged duty. If you pay $400+ for rims, frames and they declare $50 and send as a sample or gift and you are caught....then you will have he'll to pay. You don't just say sorry and pay the correct amount, you are fined, pay the correct duty and who knows...may even have a record. So if you decide you are going through the airport and they give you hell.....maybe you will know and understand why...


How much State Use tax did you pay last year? You know, the tax on all purchases made outside your home state, say online, but intended for use in your home state. Just making sure you have all the bases covered.


----------



## DANger-is

I've been thinking about getting some new carbon bars, the NESS look-a-likes off Ali but I don't see many bikes on here using them. Am I missing something?


----------



## Tylerwyler

DCash said:


> How much State Use tax did you pay last year? You know, the tax on all purchases made outside your home state, say online, but intended for use in your home state. Just making sure you have all the bases covered.


omg....you could not be thatvignorantvabout international business....state tax and federal tax are two completely different things. How do you think the USA makes money? You think you can freely import anything from another country?? You think it is not a big deal, try importing one box of Cuban cigars from any country that sells that and see what happens. Many people are getting away becausebthere is a 200 dollar threshold. Customs does not levy a tax on items below that value, they will at values above. That $400 rim and frame that you imported that the Chinese mfr listed at $50 got through because it was undervalued. If you do get caught, you will be fined.....and a lot.

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/li...nMiOnsiZGF0YSI6eyIwIjpudWxsfX19fX19LCJjIjozfQ..


----------



## rbart4506

I'm Canadian, so I could give two chits about your thread, but explain to me how someone is going to get fined for purchasing product from China, or elsewhere, that the seller undervalues? I get having to pay duty and taxes on the appraised value, but how the hell is a person going to be fined for something they DID NOT do. They were not the ones that falsified the paperwork, that was done at the other end. I highly doubt the CBP is going to have the resources or ability to prove a conspiracy on the buyers part. Sure, maybe if you are importing hundreds of frames/parts, but 15-20 various packages a year?

I don;t know about the US, but here in Canada if our government and border security were so concerned about the little guy, the first step would be to get Canada Post to actually collect the taxes and duty they are owed. I'm sure other will attest to this as well.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

Just tell the vendor to put the full amount that you paid on the customs declaration. Then pay the import duty when requested?

I think a lot of buyers who pay for stuff to be imported from China, incorporate the level of risk involved into the lower price. _Maybe they also hope to get away with the under declaration and not having to pay the import duty?_


----------



## qwertasdfg24

Tylerwyler said:


> *That $400 rim and frame that you imported that the Chinese mfr listed at $50 got through because it was undervalued. If you do get caught, you will be fined.....and a lot.*
> 
> https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/li...nMiOnsiZGF0YSI6eyIwIjpudWxsfX19fX19LCJjIjozfQ..


Thank you for your lesson, we will all ask the seller in China to value it properly, problem solve, you're a real contribution to the society.


----------



## Gjash

Tylerwyler said:


> Seems like no one understands what I am trying to get across. I am not implying that the quality is not good or the prices are not cheap.
> 
> Because the companies in china are not declaring the amount they are selling the products to you, you could get into a lot of serious problems. If the amount you paid to that company in china was not the same value declared, the penalty will be that you will have to pay the full value of your frame (penalty) and then have to pay the correct duty. You do not get a second chance. If you are caught, you just don't say...ok charge me the correct amount now......you are way past that point.


You'll get many second chances. This is nonsense.


----------



## Gjash

Nicely put sarcasm!


----------



## Peterjvh

rbart4506 said:


> I'm Canadian, so I could give two chits about your thread, but explain to me how someone is going to get fined for purchasing product from China, or elsewhere, that the seller undervalues? I get having to pay duty and taxes on the appraised value, but how the hell is a person going to be fined for something they DID NOT do. They were not the ones that falsified the paperwork.....


You are supposed to pay tax on what you paid for goods, sometimes including shipping and other costs. If customs deems that you paid more for the goods than the invoiced value, you will get hit. Usually customs a seven (+/- depending on the country) step fallback valuation process. If they don't believe the invoice value, they fall back to the next valuation step. One of the steps calculates value based on the comparative value of previously imported similar/same goods. 
It would certainly be easier for Canadian customs to squeeze a fine out of you than from a shop in rural China. 
Just say'n. ;-)


----------



## jordo_99

ian0789 said:


> So one thing I did notice and it bugged the heck out of me was the front derailleur cable was kind of rubbing into the frame and leaving a bit of a cut mark. While I noticed it right away I was able to fix this. I found a wire in the garage and spliced the housing off and it was just about the perfect size to stick into the internal hole. I just had to push a bit to slide it in and it kind of just pushed the so round hole open to make it nice and snug. Now the cable is inside the plastic and not slowly cutting into the frame. Hopefully from it sitting that way over night and me getting that tube into the frame I didn't weaken the frame.
> 
> My bike shop owner said it would be fine but I wasn't about to take the risk. It looked like it would have slowly sawed it's way deeper into the frame and start to crack. Not worth the risk. Few people said you could use derailleur cable housing but I didn't have any left over and it didn't look like it would fit the small hole.
> 
> Frame is FR302. Wondering if any others had to so the same. My Motobecane runs the wire the same way but there is no issues with the cable angle.


I know I'm pretty late here but if you go to your LBS and ask for some teflon cable liner they can order it...explain why you need it and they might have some scrap...basically if you put a liner in that spot it's going to rub the liner and not the frame.


----------



## YOLO

Hey guys, quick questions here. I like the fit of my Allez; sure my neck gets a bit sore after a long ride, but I end up feeling great at the end of the day. Assuming that my Allez has a comfortable/decent geometry, would it be reasonable to order the FM098 (which I understand is a Specialized Venge mold) in the same size? Thanks!


----------



## Yonathan Yuri Faber

What do you guys have to say about this frame?
They just quoted the whole set including:

FM018 TT Frame 54
SRAM Rival Groupset
Carbon Clincher Wheelset 55mm



carbon complete time trial and tt bike & bicycle FM018 frame, View time trial bike, Dengfu Product Details from Dengfu Sports Equipment Co., Limited on Alibaba.com


----------



## Tylerwyler

rbart4506 said:


> I'm Canadian, so I could give two chits about your thread, but explain to me how someone is going to get fined for purchasing product from China, or elsewhere, that the seller undervalues? I get having to pay duty and taxes on the appraised value, but how the hell is a person going to be fined for something they DID NOT do. They were not the ones that falsified the paperwork, that was done at the other end. I highly doubt the CBP is going to have the resources or ability to prove a conspiracy on the buyers part. Sure, maybe if you are importing hundreds of frames/parts, but 15-20 various packages a year?
> 
> I don;t know about the US, but here in Canada if our government and border security were so concerned about the little guy, the first step would be to get Canada Post to actually collect the taxes and duty they are owed. I'm sure other will attest to this as well.


if you took the time to look up the rules and guidelines of the us customs you will see it specifically states that it is the importers responsibility. If you know you paid $400 for an item and when it arrived it was declared at $50, you know something was wrong and suppose to contact us customs. If you think this is a small situation...look at it this way. The frame thread is at approx. 2.5 million, add another million for the mtb carbon threads and you are at 3.5 million. Lets take a guess and say 1 million people have purchased carbon bike parts from china from various mfrs...if the correct duty was around $40 , you are looking at cheating the us customs over 40 million dollars....that is why it has attracted their attention.....


----------



## Peterjvh

Tylerwyler said:


> if you took the time to look up the rules and guidelines of the us customs you will see it specifically states that it is the importers responsibility. If you know you paid $400 for an item and when it arrived it was declared at $50, you know something was wrong and suppose to contact us customs. If you think this is a small situation...look at it this way. The frame thread is at approx. 2.5 million, add another million for the mtb carbon threads and you are at 3.5 million. Lets take a guess and say 1 million people have purchased carbon bike parts from china from various mfrs...if the correct duty was around $40 , you are looking at cheating the us customs over 40 million dollars....that is why it has attracted their attention.....


Accurate figures? I don't know. Accurate logic? You betcha!


----------



## Tylerwyler

Peterjvh said:


> Accurate figures? I don't know. Accurate logic? You betcha!


yep, could be more or could be less. With the amount of activity, I am sure that is why it is on the us customs radar. This thread is huge and that relates to demand and possibly orders. I guarantee you they are tracking the shipments by classification.....bike parts....these companies in china are doing this to lower your cost......they are not doing it to help you because if you get caught it will be your problem and not theirs. For the small amount of money you will be saving it is not worth it in my mind...


----------



## Kopsis

YOLO said:


> Assuming that my Allez has a comfortable/decent geometry, would it be reasonable to order the FM098 (which I understand is a Specialized Venge mold) in the same size? Thanks!


Though it mimics the Venge styling, the FM098 does not use the same mold, nor does it have identical geometry. You need to analyze the geometry charts carefully to see how it compares to your current bike.


----------



## roborovski007

I contact Dengfu through the email that displayed on their website. Tony attended me, anyone deal with him before ? Is he trustable ?


----------



## persondude27

roborovski007 said:


> I contact Dengfu through the email that displayed on their website. Tony attended me, anyone deal with him before ? Is he trustable ?


Tony is the Dengfu contact. He appears to be a reputable as Chinese carbon dealers come. Remember that there is a 12-hour time difference between the Americas and China or 6 hour for Europe. He can disappear for two days at a time but appears to always follow through.


----------



## YOLO

So I've been looking at the Greatkeen bikes on their site. The paint jobs and geometries appear to be identical to their official counterparts. If I were to purchase an FM105 (Specialized Venge) from here: GreatKeen Bike Sport Equipment Co.,Ltd would I get in trouble :0 They offered to paint it for me in the Specialized colors/decals, and I just want to make sure I don't do anything silly


----------



## McGilli

YOLO said:


> They offered to paint it for me in the Specialized colors/decals, and I just want to make sure I don't do anything silly


I'm sure you'll catch some flak for creating what many will call a counterfeit. But, judging by your username, I think you already know what you're going to do. And anything I've ever bought that made me happy, and I thoroughly enjoyed - I never thought of it as a silly purchase. 

But also - maybe think about custom graphics on it - it could be something really cool and unique too... Good luck.


----------



## svard75

*ISP to non-ISP conversion*

I have converted an fm015 ISP frame to non-ISP and found that the clamp area is uneven inside. The seatpost doesn't clamp down safely enough at the proper torque settings. I took the seatpost out and noticed the pressure points as I used carbon paste. My question is what can I do to make it round?


----------



## applebaconator

Should have never cut it in the first place. The only thing you can do now is try to use some fine sandpaper and and some fine file tool to reduce it to round inside. Even if you can make it round, you also risk damaging the carbon fiber weaving inside by sanding and filing - and also risk structural integrity and increasing your risk of that whole area breaking and subsequently, potentially an accident.

What you should have just done when getting an ISP frame is slowly cut the seat post 1cm by 1cm at a time, and bought the Ritchey stubby 38.35x50mm seat mast topper or Tune cappy can try to add a shim instead. But that's no longer an option now.


----------



## svard75

I'm going to get a hole sanding bit with an extension for my drill and slightly run it up and down. It's not too bad but I think it might slide when I hit bumps. If this becomes an issue ill have to get a new frame. Was eyeing the FM069.

Anyway if anything at least I can share the experience with others here in case someone else decides. The FM015 ISP definitely cannot be converted smoothly.


----------



## Juha1234

I just got FM029 frame, and have problems routing the rear derailleur cables trough the frame.. The frame doesn't seem to have tube inside the frame which would guide the cable to the rear derailleur, so I just cannot figure out a way to install the cable.

The front derailleur & rear brake cables are easy to route because there are these tube inside the frame that guide the cable to the exit.

Could any of you guys confirm that I have defected frame..


----------



## arevuar

Juha1234 said:


> I just got FM029 frame, and have problems routing the rear derailleur cables trough the frame.. The frame doesn't seem to have tube inside the frame which would guide the cable to the rear derailleur, so I just cannot figure out a way to install the cable.
> 
> The front derailleur & rear brake cables are easy to route because there are these tube inside the frame that guide the cable to the exit.
> 
> Could any of you guys confirm that I have defected frame..


Ridley Noah Internal Cable Routing Solution Video - Part 1 of 2 - YouTube


----------



## Juha1234

arevuar said:


> Ridley Noah Internal Cable Routing Solution Video - Part 1 of 2 - YouTube


Thanks for the tip!  I'll try that, although rear derailleur cable might be quite a lot harder to guide trough the frame..

But do you know if it should be this hard, or should there already be guide inside the frame? After all, there is guide for all the other cables..I cannot understand why to left one cable without guide..


----------



## ac/bc

*Group buy?*

Hi guys, does anyone know if there are any group buys going on? I'd like to order a carbon road bike frame for training and would like some custom color if possible.


----------



## rbart4506

Juha1234 said:


> Thanks for the tip!  I'll try that, although rear derailleur cable might be quite a lot harder to guide trough the frame..
> 
> But do you know if it should be this hard, or should there already be guide inside the frame? After all, there is guide for all the other cables..I cannot understand why to left one cable without guide..


Have that frame...There should be a guide...


----------



## Juha1234

rbart4506 said:


> Have that frame...There should be a guide...


Thanks for your answer..and for confirmation that I have defected frame.


----------



## deepakvrao

Juha1234 said:


> Thanks for the tip!  I'll try that, although rear derailleur cable might be quite a lot harder to guide trough the frame..
> 
> But do you know if it should be this hard, or should there already be guide inside the frame? After all, there is guide for all the other cables..I cannot understand why to left one cable without guide..


Yes, mine goes thru easily, so there should be a guide in place.


----------



## deepakvrao

arevuar said:


> Ridley Noah Internal Cable Routing Solution Video - Part 1 of 2 - YouTube



Nice, for future reference.

I have the guides in place now, but is it possible that they might get dilodged when changing cables? What is the housing that he is using for the inner section?


----------



## arevuar

deepakvrao said:


> What is the housing that he is using for the inner section?


......


ms6073 said:


> use cables with liners such as Gore RideOn.


----------



## svard75

YOLO said:


> So I've been looking at the Greatkeen bikes on their site. The paint jobs and geometries appear to be identical to their official counterparts. If I were to purchase an FM105 (Specialized Venge) from here: GreatKeen Bike Sport Equipment Co.,Ltd would I get in trouble :0 They offered to paint it for me in the Specialized colors/decals, and I just want to make sure I don't do anything silly


Hey if I wanted them to paint the frame as some of their samples will they also paint the lettering and all decals or just the general paint scheme?


----------



## svard75

ac/bc said:


> Hi guys, does anyone know if there are any group buys going on? I'd like to order a carbon road bike frame for training and would like some custom color if possible.


Velobuild.net is where it's at


----------



## Carrasco1

Hi guys, 
Anyone, can tell me a frame model, with parcial look, like Focus Izalco, or Cervelo RCA?


----------



## arevuar

carrasco1 said:


> hi guys,
> anyone, can tell me a frame model, with parcial look, like focus izalco, or cervelo rca?


 fm066


----------



## YOLO

McGilli said:


> I'm sure you'll catch some flak for creating what many will call a counterfeit. But, judging by your username, I think you already know what you're going to do. And anything I've ever bought that made me happy, and I thoroughly enjoyed - I never thought of it as a silly purchase.
> 
> But also - maybe think about custom graphics on it - it could be something really cool and unique too... Good luck.


Thanks for the response  I just have one more question. I know these are supposed to be open mold bikes. That's why the Dengfu FM098 doesn't exactly match the geometry of any Specialized bike. However, the geometry for the Greatkeen RFM105 (GreatKeen Bike Sport Equipment Co.,Ltd) is EXACTLY that of the Specialized Venge. Does this mean that Greatkeen is using identical replica frames instead of open molds :0 

And yea, I've decided to go with my own design now


----------



## svard75

YOLO said:


> Thanks for the response  I just have one more question. I know these are supposed to be open mold bikes. That's why the Dengfu FM098 doesn't exactly match the geometry of any Specialized bike. However, the geometry for the Greatkeen RFM105 (GreatKeen Bike Sport Equipment Co.,Ltd) is EXACTLY that of the Specialized Venge. Does this mean that Greatkeen is using identical replica frames instead of open molds :0
> 
> And yea, I've decided to go with my own design now


Nope. It means what they have pictured is the real deal but what you get is actually the open mould version painted like the venge. Who likes those humps anyway. Kinda reminds me of a dog taking a crap.


----------



## YOLO

*lmaooo*



svard75 said:


> Nope. It means what they have pictured is the real deal but what you get is actually the open mould version painted like the venge. Who likes those humps anyway. Kinda reminds me of a dog taking a crap.


So the geometries on the Greatkeen site are incorrect? Are you saying that from experience, or are you just trolling me bruh :/
/sigh

That makes picking the right size a bit more complicated, doesn't it? So would the Greatkeen bike have the same geometry as the Dengfu FM098 :0

Thanks


----------



## svard75

YOLO said:


> So the geometries on the Greatkeen site are incorrect? Are you saying that from experience, or are you just trolling me bruh :/
> /sigh
> 
> That makes picking the right size a bit more complicated, doesn't it? So would the Greatkeen bike have the same geometry as the Dengfu FM098 :0
> 
> Thanks


I have my share of experience where what you see is not always what you get. Not all of the Chinese retailers do this but if it looks exactly the se as the specialized venge then I would be inclined to assume it is a photo of the real deal to attract buyers but what you get is a similar replica. For most this is okay but I'm fairly confident that they're using an open mould just like the rest of them and offering the paint job. If you order from them ask them to send you a photo of your frame before they ship it and pay through PayPal so if you suspect something just open a dispute to hold the funds and claim counterfeit.


----------



## YOLO

*Ugh*



svard75 said:


> I have my share of experience where what you see is not always what you get. Not all of the Chinese retailers do this but if it looks exactly the se as the specialized venge then I would be inclined to assume it is a photo of the real deal to attract buyers but what you get is a similar replica. For most this is okay but I'm fairly confident that they're using an open mould just like the rest of them and offering the paint job. If you order from them ask them to send you a photo of your frame before they ship it and pay through PayPal so if you suspect something just open a dispute to hold the funds and claim counterfeit.



Well damn :/
I mean, it's not the paint job that intrigues me; I just want to be able to effectively compare geometries so that I can pick the bike that best fits me. If they are using misleading numbers, that just makes it difficult for me to choose a frame. I like the styling of the Venge, humped top tube and all. 

It looks like they just uploaded a screenshot of the Specialized geometries onto their RFM105 page. I was thinking that perhaps Greatkeen just made really good replicas, and their frames were spot on to their branded counterparts...

Anyone have experience with the Greatkeen geometries?


----------



## colnagoG60

Carrasco1 said:


> Hi guys,
> Anyone, can tell me a frame model, with parcial look, like Focus Izalco, or Cervelo RCA?



Was looking for a backup for my Izalco, and "to me", the RB022 is "similar", in the top, head, and seat cluster tubes. I wound up picking up a 2nd Izalco at my local Performance store this weekend, where I bought my first.


----------



## Kopsis

YOLO said:


> Does this mean that Greatkeen is using identical replica frames instead of open molds :0


Perhaps you should contact Greatkeen and ask. If you're seriously considering a direct from China frame, you need to establish good communication with one of the agents in advance of your purchase. If they can't answer all your questions to your satisfaction, shop elsewhere.

Use forums like this for assessing vendor reputation, and getting first hand accounts of satisfaction with specific frames. Any specific information about what a vendor is selling needs to come from the vendor.


----------



## persondude27

YOLO said:


> Well damn :/
> I just want to be able to effectively compare geometries so that I can pick the bike that best fits me.
> 
> It looks like they just uploaded a screenshot of the Specialized geometries onto their RFM105 page. I was thinking that perhaps Greatkeen just made really good replicas, and their frames were spot on to their branded counterparts...
> 
> Anyone have experience with the Greatkeen geometries?


They DID just take Specialized's pictures and upload them. Clearly, they're trying to get you to buy it because it is a copy of the Venge.

Normally, the geometries are spot on. It looks like they make some pretty significant efforts to make a detailed copy of the Venge. The geometry is the easy part of that; the hard part is getting a an exotic tube shape like the Venge's downtube and top tube that still behave well. My philosophy is that while some of the frames may look exactly like an S5, Venge, or Foil, it is probable that they will not have the same ride characteristics, even if the tubes are the same shape. That is the "hard" part**.

**: How hard? I have no idea. These companies spend millions of dollars each year telling us how smart their engineers are and how good they are at using the right layups with carbon in the right places. This month's Bicycling has at least three ads that talk about how the frame is better than their competitor's because of the carbon, layup, and shapes... so, you know, take it with a grain of salt.


----------



## YOLO

persondude27 said:


> They DID just take Specialized's pictures and upload them. Clearly, they're trying to get you to buy it because it is a copy of the Venge.
> 
> Normally, the geometries are spot on. It looks like they make some pretty significant efforts to make a detailed copy of the Venge. The geometry is the easy part of that; the hard part is getting a an exotic tube shape like the Venge's downtube and top tube that still behave well. My philosophy is that while some of the frames may look exactly like an S5, Venge, or Foil, it is probable that they will not have the same ride characteristics, even if the tubes are the same shape. That is the "hard" part**.
> 
> **: How hard? I have no idea. These companies spend millions of dollars each year telling us how smart their engineers are and how good they are at using the right layups with carbon in the right places. This month's Bicycling has at least three ads that talk about how the frame is better than their competitor's because of the carbon, layup, and shapes... so, you know, take it with a grain of salt.


Thanks for the reply. I've emailed GreatKeen asking about their geometries.
If you look at the Dengfu FM098, the headtube extends past the top tube (http://dengfubikes.com/components/c...503b435883e34.jpg&newxsize=1000&newysize=1000). If you look at the GreatKeen RFM105 (GreatKeen Bike Sport Equipment Co.,Ltd), the headtube has that little dip before it reaches the top tube, and it looks nearly identical to the Venge head tube (Specialized Bicycle Components)


And yes, I've been reading these Chinese carbon frame threads for the past couple of days. I understand that a Chinese frame will not perform as equally as its branded cousin. However, since I am interested in a Venge geometry, this just serves to complicate matters. The Dengfu FM098 or the GreatKeen RFM105?! It becomes harder to choose when the geometries are so similar. It's just interesting to me how GreatKeen can produce a frame that is apparently IDENTICAL to the Venge.

For me, this now becomes a matter of which supplier is better. Sure, the GreatKeen has a seemingly identical geometry as the Venge, but do the Dengfu and GreatKeen bikes ride the same? I mean, I feel like there's no standard between the suppliers; people on this thread are quite happy with their Chinese frames, regardless of the supplier. Should I just assume that both these frames will ride the same then?

/wheeew Sorry for that :0


----------



## svard75

YOLO said:


> Thanks for the reply. I've emailed GreatKeen asking about their geometries.
> If you look at the Dengfu FM098, the headtube extends past the top tube (http://dengfubikes.com/components/c...503b435883e34.jpg&newxsize=1000&newysize=1000). If you look at the GreatKeen RFM105 (GreatKeen Bike Sport Equipment Co.,Ltd), the headtube has that little dip before it reaches the top tube, and it looks nearly identical to the Venge head tube (Specialized Bicycle Components)
> 
> 
> And yes, I've been reading these Chinese carbon frame threads for the past couple of days. I understand that a Chinese frame will not perform as equally as its branded cousin. However, since I am interested in a Venge geometry, this just serves to complicate matters. The Dengfu FM098 or the GreatKeen RFM105?! It becomes harder to choose when the geometries are so similar. It's just interesting to me how GreatKeen can produce a frame that is apparently IDENTICAL to the Venge.
> 
> For me, this now becomes a matter of which supplier is better. Sure, the GreatKeen has a seemingly identical geometry as the Venge, but do the Dengfu and GreatKeen bikes ride the same? I mean, I feel like there's no standard between the suppliers; people on this thread are quite happy with their Chinese frames, regardless of the supplier. Should I just assume that both these frames will ride the same then?
> 
> /wheeew Sorry for that :0


I've been looking over great keens website and frankly it looks like something that you setup overnight. Reminds me of cycling young!


----------



## Maglore

The GreatKeen RFM105 is not an open mould frame as it's a blatent rip-off/copy of the Specialized Venge a la 'Chinarello'. Basically, it's counterfeit. The FM098 is an open mold frame as it doesn't directly copy any other bike and doesn't try to pass itself off as any other brand with copied logos etc.

Personally, I would get the FM098 as it's not a counterfeit frame and there is a lot of positive feedback from people buying and riding them.


----------



## Oracle7775

Hello folks. I'd like to get some Chinese wheels, but I have no experience with buying from there. Where's the best place to start? There are a few wheelsets listed right now pm Ebay for extremely low prices. One of them is from "carbonzone," and the other is from "carbon-cycle." 

Thanks all in advance for the help.


----------



## Maglore

Oracle7775 said:


> Hello folks. I'd like to get some Chinese wheels, but I have no experience with buying from there. Where's the best place to start? There are a few wheelsets listed right now pm Ebay for extremely low prices. One of them is from "carbonzone," and the other is from "carbon-cycle."
> 
> Thanks all in advance for the help.


You may want to look at the *massive thread* on Chinese carbon wheels in the *Wheels & Tires* section of the forum.


----------



## syraleo

anyone have any experience with the greatkeen RFM301 frame in 1k weave?

I got quoted USD600 for it including shipping and headset, while the normal 3k weave RFM301 is USD520 with shipping.


----------



## rdt

syraleo said:


> anyone have any experience with the greatkeen RFM301 frame in 1k weave?
> 
> I got quoted USD600 for it including shipping and headset, while the normal 3k weave RFM301 is USD520 with shipping.


I have been riding the RFM201 for over 3000 miles. Bought it in March 2012 and got it on the road by April. It is a great frame, the paint quality was very good, and I would buy another one.

It looks like the geo of the 201 and 301 are the same. Not sure what other differences there may be. Possibly only the paint schemes.

I paid $580 shipped to FL with headset, seatpost, and clamps.

Good luck. HTH...


----------



## syraleo

rdt said:


> I have been riding the RFM201 for over 3000 miles. Bought it in March 2012 and got it on the road by April. It is a great frame, the paint quality was very good, and I would buy another one.
> 
> It looks like the geo of the 201 and 301 are the same. Not sure what other differences there may be. Possibly only the paint schemes.
> 
> I paid $580 shipped to FL with headset, seatpost, and clamps.
> 
> Good luck. HTH...


thanks, i decided on the RFM301 because i know it's one of the more popular ones and the feedback is pretty good.

went for the 3k weave instead since 1k weave didnt really mean much as the china factories probably just construct them in the same manner anyway.

paid $520usd shipping with headset. the fork+seatpost comes by default i assume, the invoice just said RFM301 but i dont think it's an issue.

the 1k weave T1000 fibre is $600USD.


----------



## YOLO

Maglore said:


> The GreatKeen RFM105 is not an open mould frame as it's a blatent rip-off/copy of the Specialized Venge a la 'Chinarello'. Basically, it's counterfeit. The FM098 is an open mold frame as it doesn't directly copy any other bike and doesn't try to pass itself off as any other brand with copied logos etc.
> 
> Personally, I would get the FM098 as it's not a counterfeit frame and there is a lot of positive feedback from people buying and riding them.



Thanks!
Yeah, I'm leaning more towards the FM098 now. Still, it makes me wonder. Do you think Greatkeen manufactures frames for Specialized? I mean, it's just weird to me how they have the same exact geometries and even the styling/design is on par with the real Venge. I don't think anyone would be able to tell the difference if they saw one painted in Venge colors :0


----------



## syraleo

YOLO said:


> Thanks!
> Yeah, I'm leaning more towards the FM098 now. Still, it makes me wonder. Do you think Greatkeen manufactures frames for Specialized? I mean, it's just weird to me how they have the same exact geometries and even the styling/design is on par with the real Venge. I don't think anyone would be able to tell the difference if they saw one painted in Venge colors :0


From what I know, Merida makes bikes for Specialized.


----------



## Maglore

YOLO said:


> Thanks!
> Yeah, I'm leaning more towards the FM098 now. Still, it makes me wonder. Do you think Greatkeen manufactures frames for Specialized? I mean, it's just weird to me how they have the same exact geometries and even the styling/design is on par with the real Venge. I don't think anyone would be able to tell the difference if they saw one painted in Venge colors :0


It's not particularly hard to visually copy any carbon bike frame. Buy a Venge frame, get it digitised, make the moulds and you're good to go. Using the same quality of materials, lay-up and having the same QC is another matter though. Not that I'm saying the counterfeit Venge frames are rubbish.

Personally, I think buying a knock-off frame and having it painted and logo'd up to pass it off as a genuine is silly.


----------



## YOLO

Maglore said:


> Personally, I think buying a knock-off frame and having it painted and logo'd up to pass it off as a genuine is silly.


But then I won't have any [email protected] #thestruggle
loljk

Was CyclingYong shut down because they sold perfectly counterfeit bike frames?


I see that the real Venge has a 1-1/2" to 1-3/8" headset, but Martina from GreatKeen just told me their RFM105 uses just 1-1/2".
For some reason, GreatKeen keeps trying to sell me the RFM104 (Scott Foil clone), even thought it's cheaper. Does anyone have any experience with this frame, or why she keeps suggesting it to me?

Thanks.


----------



## CaptainJuice

Hey everyone,

I have been lurking this thread all day. I just start riding last year and now I'm wondering if I should upgrade to a carbon frame now. I currently have the Windsor Knight from bikesdirect. and want to transfer all of the components over to the new frame. So what frames do you recommend? I see the RFM105 and FM098 has been talked about quite a bit. Anyone that has some friendly advice let me know. 
Thanks


----------



## syraleo

YOLO said:


> Thanks!
> Yeah, I'm leaning more towards the FM098 now. Still, it makes me wonder. Do you think Greatkeen manufactures frames for Specialized? I mean, it's just weird to me how they have the same exact geometries and even the styling/design is on par with the real Venge. I don't think anyone would be able to tell the difference if they saw one painted in Venge colors :0


my cycling grp has a guy on a venge and one on the FM098. 

side by side, they are 2 completely different bikes. Geometry wise i'm not sure but tubing shape is different, the BB area especially. The venge is "thinner" ? not sure how you would describe it.

They look alike due to the sloping tube on the FM098 but they are completely different bikes.


----------



## Oracle7775

Maglore said:


> You may want to look at the *massive thread* on Chinese carbon wheels in the *Wheels & Tires* section of the forum.


I *thought *there was one, but when I *looked *at that *forum *I must've missed *it*. I'll look *again*.

*Thanks *for the *assistance*, my *friend*!


----------



## YOLO

syraleo said:


> my cycling grp has a guy on a venge and one on the FM098.
> 
> side by side, they are 2 completely different bikes. Geometry wise i'm not sure but tubing shape is different, the BB area especially. The venge is "thinner" ? not sure how you would describe it.
> 
> They look alike due to the sloping tube on the FM098 but they are completely different bikes.


Well yeah, the FM098 is an open mold frame. I was talking about comparing the Greatkeen RFM105 and the Venge. The RFM105 (supposedly) has the same geometry as the Venge. Take a look at the pics here: GreatKeen Bike Sport Equipment Co.,Ltd

I was just wondering if anyone would really be able to tell. I even asked Martina about the RFM105 frame, and she told me it has a PF30 BB. I really like the colors on the Venge, but I'd put my own logo on it if I were to order the RFM105.


----------



## bugly64

*Please help with frame info*

This frame is being delivered Friday and I was wondering if you guys knew what it was.


----------



## bugly64

Does anyone know what frame this is? I just bought it on Ebay used from a guy in NM.


----------



## peter584

I just bought an internal cable FM029. Does anyone know why there is a dimple where the clamp on front derailleur goes. I have to strip a bike to build it, so wondering if I need anything special or if my clamp will ill fit right with that spot.
Thanks


----------



## Swen6

I brought the RFM301 from GreatKeen and the quality is good, i appreciate every now and then someone will always get a bum deal like the poor member a few pages back.

Yes the RFM105 is a replica but anyone who tries to pass the FM098 off as an open mould is naive, it was an amazing coincidence that they came up with a frame that has a striking resemblance to the Venge???, I suppose just like they came up with the waive forks on the FM001 all by themselves and didn't steal that from Pinarello?

I knew what and why i brought what i did so i certainly wouldn't criticise anyone else for doing so but i'm not delusional enough to try and tell myself the subtle differences make it an original.


----------



## deepakvrao

peter584 said:


> I just bought an internal cable FM029. Does anyone know why there is a dimple where the clamp on front derailleur goes. I have to strip a bike to build it, so wondering if I need anything special or if my clamp will ill fit right with that spot.
> Thanks


It's for the FD to shift in for the small chain ring. I have the same frame. The FD clamps above it.


----------



## syraleo

Swen6 said:


> I brought the RFM301 from GreatKeen and the quality is good, i appreciate every now and then someone will always get a bum deal like the poor member a few pages back.
> 
> Yes the RFM105 is a replica but anyone who tries to pass the FM098 off as an open mould is naive, it was an amazing coincidence that they came up with a frame that has a striking resemblance to the Venge???, I suppose just like they came up with the waive forks on the FM001 all by themselves and didn't steal that from Pinarello?
> 
> I knew what and why i brought what i did so i certainly wouldn't criticise anyone else for doing so but i'm not delusional enough to try and tell myself the subtle differences make it an original.


did you have any problems with the cabling? it's my first internal cable frame, hopefully everything goes alright.

still waiting for them to ship it, 3-5 days lead time, the wait is killing me.


----------



## Swen6

None at all, getting the loom for the Rear Derailer was a pain, more for the cable ties, i've also done the Battery mod so the Battery is in the post. Really happy with it, still not finished as after a few last bits of the group set, it'll be Di2 7900 once complete. Ping me a PM and i'll send some of the as it stands pics.


----------



## peter584

Thanks


----------



## syraleo

Swen6 said:


> None at all, getting the loom for the Rear Derailer was a pain, more for the cable ties, i've also done the Battery mod so the Battery is in the post. Really happy with it, still not finished as after a few last bits of the group set, it'll be Di2 7900 once complete. Ping me a PM and i'll send some of the as it stands pics.


Loom for the rear D? what is that?

my frame is in painting, matte black, GK says it'll ship in 2 days. cant wait!


----------



## Swen6

<tbody>

</tbody>The wiring loom for Di2 Dura Ace, it comes with cable ties wrapped around and the 'tails' are to stop the cable from rattling around inside the tubes.


----------



## TattooedMtBiker

So are any of these frame, or any carbon roadbike frame for that matter, suitable for a fatass casual rider like myself? Right now I'm hovering around 265 pounds but loosing weight. Goal is 250 by end of summer and hoping to get down to 215-220 by next summer. I'm not in the market at the moment but perhaps this fall/winter to give me something to do when I can't ride.


----------



## DCash

TattooedMtBiker said:


> So are any of these frame, or any carbon roadbike frame for that matter, suitable for a fatass casual rider like myself? Right now I'm hovering around 265 pounds but loosing weight. Goal is 250 by end of summer and hoping to get down to 215-220 by next summer. I'm not in the market at the moment but perhaps this fall/winter to give me something to do when I can't ride.



Have you looked at the FM058/59 cross frames? The frames are stronger and have relaxed geometry compared with a standard road bike. There is also more clearance for larger tires which will give you a smoother ride until you drop the weight.


----------



## TattooedMtBiker

DCash said:


> Have you looked at the FM058/59 cross frames? The frames are stronger and have relaxed geometry compared with a standard road bike. There is also more clearance for larger tires which will give you a smoother ride until you drop the weight.


I have not but I certainly will. Thanks for the recommendation.


----------



## Sylvania

Hi

Is there any one here with a Hongfu HF-FM069 road frame (Not the TT)?

View attachment 284233


I would like to build this with Campagnolo EPS group, so if somebody could tell me how this frame is performing i would be happy  

best regards


----------



## gloscherrybomb

bugly64 said:


> Does anyone know what frame this is? I just bought it on Ebay used from a guy in NM.


Yeah, It's a Chinarello, and not even a good one. Check the old style fork.


----------



## bugly64

*ouch*



gloscherrybomb said:


> Yeah, It's a Chinarello, and not even a good one. Check the old style fork.


Are you saying it's going to break on me, or that it's not a good copy?


----------



## gloscherrybomb

bugly64 said:


> Are you saying it's going to break on me, or that it's not a good copy?


It's not as good a copy as the current generation ones. I wouldn't like to comment on whether it is likely to break or not, for any copy or legit frame. Still looks awesome.


----------



## gloscherrybomb

My 'in-progress' build. 

View attachment 284317


----------



## peterk

Has anyone built up an fr-316 frame. I have not had any luck finding info for it. I am considering the smallest size for my wife. It has the shortest ETT of any frames I have looked at. Thanks Pete


----------



## peterk

Do all of the frames with braze on front derailleurs work with compact cranks or will this be an issue? Pete


----------



## syraleo

gloscherrybomb said:


> My 'in-progress' build.
> 
> View attachment 284317


this is my first integrated cable frame, is it straightforward?


insert ferrule then insert cable, push it through to the other end, attach another ferrule and thats it?

im only worried about the cable rubbing the inside of the frame or the "opening" for the cable to go inside the frame.


----------



## arevuar

syraleo said:


> this is my first integrated cable frame, is it straightforward?
> 
> 
> insert ferrule then insert cable, push it through to the other end, attach another ferrule and thats it?
> 
> im only worried about the cable rubbing the inside of the frame or the "opening" for the cable to go inside the frame.


you can use special tubes for inner routing


----------



## gloscherrybomb

syraleo said:


> this is my first integrated cable frame, is it straightforward?
> 
> 
> insert ferrule then insert cable, push it through to the other end, attach another ferrule and thats it?
> 
> im only worried about the cable rubbing the inside of the frame or the "opening" for the cable to go inside the frame.


In theory with this frame the cable is 'away' from the frame and so doesn't need any special casing. The frame bit is easy, the handlebars a little trickier.

Just dont cross the cables in the frame like you often do if you cross them initially around the head tube. It wont play very nicely with the track underneath the BB.

Haven't attached FD so cannot comment on that bit yet.


----------



## syraleo

gloscherrybomb said:


> In theory with this frame the cable is 'away' from the frame and so doesn't need any special casing. The frame bit is easy, the handlebars a little trickier.
> 
> Just dont cross the cables in the frame like you often do if you cross them initially around the head tube. It wont play very nicely with the track underneath the BB.
> 
> Haven't attached FD so cannot comment on that bit yet.


ah ok, i see what you mean. 

they still have yet to ship my frame though, it's been 1 week


----------



## svard75

Update to my HongFu FM015 ISP frameset converted to non-ISP. 

So as some of you may have read a few pages back the simple act of cutting the ISP off does not allow the use of a seatpost. The following instructions is what I used to correct this issue.

Cutting The ISP Down And Preparing For Seatclamp
The inside of the ISP is not molded to any standard size and there's plenty of extra epoxy from the frame molding process to actually fit a post as close as possible. The size of the inside is 31.9mm and the size of the outside is 36mm depending on how far down you cut the ISP. I suggest to leave at least an inch above the top tube but 2 inches may be better. Mark the tube where you will cut the ISP off and wrap it with electrical tape. I used a metal cutting blade on a jigsaw at highest speed. Use a file to smooth out the cut edges then remove the electrical tape. Cut a 1/2" slit from the top of the cut tube down in the front and rear of the tube. This cut will allow the carbon fibre to easily expand and contract without cracking. Use a 34.9mm seatpost clamp to mark the line on this cut seattube where the outer resin will need to be shaved down so the seatpost clamp will fit. Using a dremel sand down the tube in small increments using the seat clamp to check between. The sanding method of this is tricky and you may want to leave the last few increments to manual hand sanding. For this use a large sheet of 100 grit paper and fold in half then wrap it around the sanded area and sand in back and forth motion, your more likely to get a nice round shape than using just the dremel.

Preparing The Inside Of The Seattube For Seatpost 
Using a dremel with an extension bit and sanding wheel sand the inside down enough so that the 31.6mm seatpost will have enough room to freely move all the way up and down. Sand a good bit so it's consistant as possible but make sure you don't sand the weave. 

Preparing For The Molding Process
Buy some fiberglass epoxy and hardener for the inside molding process and a puppy feeding tube or something similar
View attachment 284398
. Find an old cheap 31.6mm seatpost and cut the top off. Drill a small hole near the top where the seatpost will sit inside the frame. This hole needs to be large enough to fit the tube end of the puppy feeding tube. Push the tube from the puppy feeding tube through this hole from the inside of the seatpost and tape it at the top. Cut a piece of Styrofoam to the same size as the opening and tie a fishing line around it. Feed the fishing line through the seatpost and tape it at the top. The Styrofoam should remain tight up against the bottom of the seatpost. Wrap (very tightly) wax paper (wax side facing outward) around the outside bottom half of the seatpost (Cut a small hole where the tube sticks out and using paper tape seal around that tube). This tube will be the injection point for the resin. Try and insert the seatpost into the frame and ensure there aren't any tight sections that could tear the wax paper. If there are sand that area down a bit further. 

Molding The Steatpost To The Frame
Mix the epoxy resin with the hardener and stir. Spread it sparingly inside the seatpost area within the frame and on the wax paper (Try to avoid the tube). Insert the seatpost slowly wiping any excess resin. Wrap the top of the seatpost with wax paper (wax facing inward) and fasten the seatpost collar just enough so the seatpost doesn't slide further. Turn your frame upside down and begin injecting the resin through the syringe. I believe 2 full injections should be enough. Leave the frame upside down on some scrap cardboard to cure for at least 30 minutes to 1 hour. 

Removing The Molding Seatpost
Remove the seatpost clamp, and wax paper. Untape the fishing line and remove the seatpost. Remove the wax paper inside the seattube slowly. Slowly pull the styrofoam piece out. If it remains inside, no big deal it's super light weight anyway. Just yank the fishing line right out. If required perform some light 600 grit sanding just to smooth down any rough areas. Fit and adjust the final seatpost and tighten using the clamp.

That should give you a few years worth of riding 

Edit: My apologies. I rushed the instructions.


----------



## rbart4506

OMG! Paragraphs please... My eyes hurt...

Thank-you


----------



## YOLO

Okay so I've been researching my ass off, looking at all the different vendors. So far, I think GreatKeenBike seems like a pretty cool deal. 
I just have a question: If I have them paint it in Venge colors (no decals, logos) and I put my own design on it (I'm thinking something like "Do-Wherk" lol), what happens if I end up selling the frame later on? I mean, sure, the geometry is a near identical replica of the Venge, but it won't have the logos or anything other than my own decal. And of course, I'll be disclosing that it isn't an actual Venge frame (if it wasn't clear from the start). Will I have the #feds knocking at my door? 

LMAO, thanks for the help guys


----------



## syraleo

for those who built up their own frames, did you have to buy your own compression plug for the carbon fork?

i'm looking for a PVC pipe to whack the bottom headset cone/spacer/washer whatever it's called, no luck in my country. any other alternatives or do i have to bring it down to a shop?


----------



## svard75

syraleo said:


> for those who built up their own frames, did you have to buy your own compression plug for the carbon fork?
> 
> i'm looking for a PVC pipe to whack the bottom headset cone/spacer/washer whatever it's called, no luck in my country. any other alternatives or do i have to bring it down to a shop?


When I ordered the frame fork I asked for the headset. Hongfu included a compression plug. I actually bought an Fsa carbon compression plug after the fact and am using it. 

I cut my crown race and slipped it on with carbon assembly paste underneath. Been like that for 2 years now no play or movement issues.


----------



## svard75

YOLO said:


> Okay so I've been researching my ass off, looking at all the different vendors. So far, I think GreatKeenBike seems like a pretty cool deal.
> I just have a question: If I have them paint it in Venge colors (no decals, logos) and I put my own design on it (I'm thinking something like "Do-Wherk" lol), what happens if I end up selling the frame later on? I mean, sure, the geometry is a near identical replica of the Venge, but it won't have the logos or anything other than my own decal. And of course, I'll be disclosing that it isn't an actual Venge frame (if it wasn't clear from the start). Will I have the #feds knocking at my door?
> 
> LMAO, thanks for the help guys


You're buying a frame and already thinking of selling it heh. You won't have an issue because first of all all specialized frames have serial numbers on the bb and authenticity stickers. Secondly its not exactly the same. thirdly, If the guy buying it doesn't ask for a photo of the bottom of the bb they deserve to be ripped off. 

As for any seller attempting to sell fake parts. I curse you with the worst boils on your face, hands and feet in the shape of a large L.


----------



## alex1rob

My FM066. Awaiting new groupset when I can afford Dura Ace!
View attachment 284552


----------



## persondude27

alex1rob said:


> My FM066. Awaiting new groupset when I can afford Dura Ace!
> View attachment 284552


Really good looking bike. Are they Chinese wheels, too?

Let me know how the FM066 is - how it handles, how stiff it is, etc. It may end up being my next bike, unless I can score a sweet deal on a SuperSix.


----------



## YOLO

svard75 said:


> You're buying a frame and already thinking of selling it heh. You won't have an issue because first of all all specialized frames have serial numbers on the bb and authenticity stickers. Secondly its not exactly the same. thirdly, If the guy buying it doesn't ask for a photo of the bottom of the bb they deserve to be ripped off.
> 
> As for any seller attempting to sell fake parts. I curse you with the worst boils on your face, hands and feet in the shape of a large L.



LOL
Why would the BB matter :0
The RFM105 uses OSBB, just like the Venge.


----------



## svard75

YOLO said:


> LOL
> Why would the BB matter :0
> The RFM105 uses OSBB, just like the Venge.


A photo of the BB should reveal the sn. With that you can contact specialized to confirm.


----------



## Tresdandre

*Why not?*

I currently don't have the time, facilities, or resources to do justice to building my own bike from the frame up. Plus I now live in Costa Rica and have somewhat complicated issues with customs and duties to do the job right. Therefore, I said to myself, why not spec the bike and look for a reputable Chinese manufacturer to build it for me. I have been doing business in China for a number of years and had discussions with many bike companies. After a long search based upon my specific needs I was most happy with Dengfu and the initial responses they provided. I need a large frame and this turned out to be the biggest obstacle in my initial discussions. The truth was that almost nobody really could provide the frame geometry I was looking for except for Dengfu and they were more than willing to work with me.
Dengfu FM098 "Aero Road Bike"
View attachment 284585​
I decided early in the process that I wanted to use the Dengfu name on my bike. The bike frame, wheelset, stem, handlebars, seatpost, bottle cages, and saddle are all Dengfu carbon. The groupset is Ultegra. This picture is from Dengfu and the bike is currently in transit to me from China. I will provide a complete review of the bike after I have the chance to put it through its paces. I am particularly satisfied with the communication I had with Kathy Jin at Dengfu. She was extremely responsive. One thing I have learned in this process is that many Chinese companies are frame and component manufacturers, but they really don't know or understand much about individualizing or building a complete bike. I had very specific requests and many of the companies were just not willing or able to cooperate. Dengfu on the other hand was more than willing to try to build what I wanted. Hopefully in a week or two I will see personally just how they did.


----------



## turbogrover

alex1rob said:


> My FM066. Awaiting new groupset when I can afford Dura Ace!


Really nice job of adding the accent colors! Looks good!


----------



## gloscherrybomb

All finished 

View attachment 284619


----------



## bitman

Beware GreatKeen bike. I am an unhappy customer.

Ordered 49 cm rfm301 in early May, no paint, 3000k, gloss black, headset, seat post fork and clamp.

Emailed four times in May, finally got a tracking number. Bike shipped on 30 May, left via Hong Kong post. Interestingly, that is all that tracking number ever reported. Never any detail after departure.

Emailed multiple times in June. Received response half of the time, "please be patient". Repeat in July, and I suddenly got a _different_ tracking number that showed delivery to an address in Fremont, California. In early June. I live in San Antonio. 

I emailed, and was told, "so sorry, our shipping department made a mistake, please contact ___________ at phone number _______ and arrange to have your package sent to you, and we will reimburse you". Ok. Soooooo, I called Fremont, and got another very agitated customer, who had received my package out of the blue. He _also_ has an ongoing issue with GreatKeen, and believes they shipped him my frame to appease him. Of course, he was not willing to ship the frame to me, either.

Back on email to GreatKeen. Only response so far (two weeks ago) is, "we are talking to _____ in Fremont". They have not answered my last three emails.

I've started a Paypal dispute. I suspect that I have lost my money, but I'm not going down easy. There are many other vendors who are willing to provide a quality product, but so far my experience with GreatKeen is horrible.

Let me know if you have questions.

Edit: I received my money back from my Paypal dispute on 26 July ... Two and a half months after initial order (16 May).

Dave



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2


----------



## slinzer1

Here's my newest chinese build. Did my first ride on it on Sunday and got all Personal Bests on Strava on every hill - some substantial. As much as I would love to do S-works, Pinarello (real one), or something like that, had to save for the kids (and for me!)

Wyley
View attachment 284646


----------



## syraleo

edit: re-wrote my whole post after searching on the forums.

My RFM301 is here, and I have issues with the front D cable routing. Got some pictures.

First, i insert the cable guide here.









Somehow it goes into this "tube" made of carbon fibre as well.









It goes in straight and I have no idea where the exit is nor where to drill a hole if needed.









By the way, what is this hole for?


----------



## svard75

syraleo said:


> edit: re-wrote my whole post after searching on the forums.
> 
> My RFM301 is here, and I have issues with the front D cable routing. Got some pictures.
> 
> First, i insert the cable guide here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Somehow it goes into this "tube" made of carbon fibre as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It goes in straight and I have no idea where the exit is nor where to drill a hole if needed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, what is this hole for?


Cool. Looks like you have a frame compatible with mech and Di2. Never worked with it but if the third image contains the cable liners and if these tubes join at the other end then just join them as required. It looks like you'll need to trim them down a touch so that when tight the two liners come close together in this area. If that doesn't make sense then have the frame built up for you. As for the front derailleur tube. Hmm that must have been overlooked. I would drill a hole similar in size adjacent to the one where the liner to the rear der sits. Hopefully you'll be able to find the other end of that tube.


----------



## gloscherrybomb

I have just built my RFM301 up. I didn't receive any cable guides.

The front D cable comes down the down tube to under the BB on the non-drive side. There is a small gap on that side of the BB plastic guide RD end which you can pop in and out. so the cable goes up that hole and through the hole you identified in the first pic, to the FD. I would use one of those guides to protect that hole. Mine is free as I didn't receive any guides.

I don't think the hole in the last pic is required unless you have Di2.


----------



## syraleo

gloscherrybomb said:


> I have just built my RFM301 up. I didn't receive any cable guides.
> 
> The front D cable comes down the down tube to under the BB on the non-drive side. There is a small gap on that side of the BB plastic guide RD end which you can pop in and out. so the cable goes up that hole and through the hole you identified in the first pic, to the FD. I would use one of those guides to protect that hole. Mine is free as I didn't receive any guides.
> 
> I don't think the hole in the last pic is required unless you have Di2.


i kindda get what you mean but the "tube" is a dead end. so i cant really insert anything. there is no hole whatsoever for me to pass the cable through.

can you post a picture of your routing underneath for me as a reference?


----------



## gloscherrybomb

syraleo said:


> i kindda get what you mean but the "tube" is a dead end. so i cant really insert anything. there is no hole whatsoever for me to pass the cable through.
> 
> can you post a picture of your routing underneath for me as a reference?


It seems like the hole under the BB has remained sealed during manufacturing. Have you tried poking a sharp object through it? It may just be a thin layer?

I will get a photo when I'm back by my bike.


----------



## syraleo

gloscherrybomb said:


> It seems like the hole under the BB has remained sealed during manufacturing. Have you tried poking a sharp object through it? It may just be a thin layer?
> 
> I will get a photo when I'm back by my bike.


I didn't want to poke a hole just in case I damage the frame. I'll wait for your photo to use as a reference. 

Appreciate it


----------



## parik

there is hole under painting. I have same problem in my chinarello.
View attachment 284738




syraleo said:


> edit: re-wrote my whole post after searching on the forums.
> 
> My RFM301 is here, and I have issues with the front D cable routing. Got some pictures.
> 
> First, i insert the cable guide here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Somehow it goes into this "tube" made of carbon fibre as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It goes in straight and I have no idea where the exit is nor where to drill a hole if needed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, what is this hole for?


----------



## syraleo

Ok, took a gamble and it paid off. The front D cable is now able to pass through the bottom bracket.

used a pair of tweezers and carefully "pricked" it then i forcefully pushed the cable in and it broke through, finally.

Got everything settled! Cutting the fork and it'll be ready to build


----------



## Dingleberry88

Hi! First post!

Built an FM029A up a few months ago:










Then I got hit by a car.



So now I need a new frame! It seems a few disc brake models have appeared since I got my frame - are any of these worth looking at? Or should I just get the same again? Or maybe something else..?


----------



## bugly64

DrDamage said:


> This may be the wrong place to ask - but in general where are you guys getting all of the running gear to put these bikes together - just browsing around on the net - I'm seeing some incredibly high prices for things like brakes, cranks etc.


I got my brakes, wheels, rear derailleur, and seat off Ebay. I usually buy used parts one piece at a time taking a long time to get to my dream of a bike.


----------



## syraleo

Frame received with:

1) Front D hole covered by a thin layer of paint and carbon fibre, used a pair of tweezers to slowly peel away the paint before finally stabbing it through from the inside with a spare cable.

2) The headset is a very simple 4 piece construction, not sure if that's normal, crown race for the fork didn't need any tools to install either, i just pushed it down with my fingers.

3) Frame quality and paint (matte black) is superb.

Time will tell if it will break or fall apart.

Anyway, I finally built it up.

Did some sprinting to try and break the steerer tube, bunny hops, curb jumps, riding on stoned roads, bricked surfaces, no creaking or anything like that.

Ignore the blue saddle, going to change it to a black one when this one is worn out.

Was going for a matte black and red color scheme but the final product is so different from what I pictured in my head. Oh well.


----------



## lith

*FM166 - Discs!*

Preamble: I haven't seen many posting about Deng Fu/Hong Fu disc frames here so I figure I'll make a few comments for those that may be interested. I need start by saying I’m not an expert when it comes to road biking. In fact, up until this point, I have never ridden a road bike. I have however, spent a good portion of my life on a variety of mountain bikes hence my willingness to build something from scratch. I’m so new at this, I do not have any tights nor do I think I’m at the point where I’m ready for it.

This post is about the FM166 but as you can see on Hong Fu’s website, they’ve released a few 2014 road models with disc support. They appear to be better engineered than the FM166. In some ways, I wish I held back for a few months for three reasons; the new frames, the 6800 Ultegra groupie, and better support for discs hubs/wheels for roadies. Some might say purchasing a road bike with disc isn’t smart seeing how UCI doesn’t really allow discs yet. For me though, it was a rather easy decision. First, I’m not going to be competing (at least not for some time), second it’s eventual that discs will be allowed seeing how the new hydraulics Shimano has announced and ultimately, I want discs because I live in PNW and I’ve ridden discs as long as I can remember. I understand this bike is <20lbs and regardless of brakes, it will stop on a dime but darn it, I want that security so I’m willing to sacrifice a bit of weight.

This FM166 appears to be very similar to the FM066 design. The major difference is obviously the disc mounts. To accommodate this, this design isn’t 100% internally routed (IR). The rear discs housing is mounted on the outside. Chances are, they did this to support hydraulic brakes down the road. However, if you take a look at the new 2014 discs, you’ll see it’s all IR. If you look even closer, it appears the gourmets where the front derailleur and rear brakes goes into the frame is different than other IR designs. The photos isn’t high enough resolution to tell but I think the new frames are designed to route the entire housing through the frame. Please correct me if someone goes for a newer 2014 model so I can take out the incorrect information.

Enough of that. Few important bits for those that are interested in discs.



Rear dropout – according to Hong Fu, the FM166 comes in both 130 and 135mm. The CAD drawings they sent specified 130mm so I question this. When I ordered, they did ask which sizing I would like. I went with the 135mm for better hub compatibility 
Disc mounts – these are post mounts. It should be noted that these mounts are designed for 140mm rotors. The measurements between the QR and the top of the post mount is 47.5mm (see image attachment #3 below). The bike pictured below is actually fitted with 160mm rotors. This requires a post mount adapter from Avid which isn’t always easy to find 
Housing length – I didn’t think about this before I begun to build the bike. The Ultegra shifter set comes with the PTFE cables and SIS+SLR housing. The lengths are fine for shifters but it is not sufficient to reach the brakes. As you’ll see in the picture, the housing for the front brake is actually a bit tight. You’re better off going out to purchase about 60” worth of housing for the rear and something else a bit longer for the front 
Wheels – I’m using Novatec mountain bike hubs with Velocity rims and Aerolite spokes, 32H 

Other notes:


I dealt with Hong Fu because Deng Fu wouldn’t respond to my emails. Tip: BCC every Deng Fu and Hong Fu email addresses you can find. Someone is bound to answer. Whomever that may be is the person you should purchase from. I bought my stuff from Vivian – she has been fantastic 
I ordered from pretty much every major online retailer. Most of the drivetrain is from CRC and you’d like to think that after spending $1k there, they would do a decent job of packaging the stuff but nope… Go elsewhere. Too bad I don’t have a picture of the box 
Hubs are from bdopcycling.com 
Spacers and stem – yes I know about the spacers, 40mm exact. I need to do something about the stem though 
Going down 60+km/h with nothing but a t-shirt and helmet sure is scary. I might feel more secure when I have time to purchase some tights and some gloves/mitts (/sarcasm…). Worse than going downhilling in Whistler or North Shore if you ask me….. 

I built it around two weeks ago but I’ve only got about 100KMs on it. I didn’t realize how out of shape I am! In all, the bike weighs in about 16 pounds and I’m certain I can get it down to 15.

I should also note the wind blew down my bike while I was taking this picture for you guys. First time I dropped it too. Scratched up the rear derailleur and the bar end plug thing. My legs were too tired to even attempt to catch it. Consider it my sacrifice to RBR after all the knowledge it has imparted on me. I hope the head tube didn’t fracture….

* Build*








~$3500 CAD – could have been cheaper.

* Bike*
(I have higher res if desired)









*Shimano disc mount specifications (reference):
Rear*









* Front*
https://i.imgur.com/6d3325k.jpg

Album – original resolutions - Hong Fu/Deng Fu FM166 Discs - Imgur

Sorry about the long post. I hope somebody finds it useful.


----------



## mrbubbles

lith said:


> * Build*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~$3500 CAD – could have been cheaper.
> 
> * Bike*
> (I have higher res if desired)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Shimano disc mount specifications (reference):
> Rear*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Front*
> https://i.imgur.com/6d3325k.jpg
> 
> Album – original resolutions - Hong Fu/Deng Fu FM166 Discs - Imgur
> 
> Sorry about the long post. I hope somebody finds it useful.


Higher res please.


----------



## lith

Click on the link at the bottom that says "original resolution". I can upload something even higher res if required.


----------



## gloscherrybomb

syraleo said:


> Frame received with:
> 
> 1) Front D hole covered by a thin layer of paint and carbon fibre, used a pair of tweezers to slowly peel away the paint before finally stabbing it through from the inside with a spare cable.
> 
> 2) The headset is a very simple 4 piece construction, not sure if that's normal, crown race for the fork didn't need any tools to install either, i just pushed it down with my fingers.
> 
> 3) Frame quality and paint (matte black) is superb.
> 
> Time will tell if it will break or fall apart.
> 
> Anyway, I finally built it up.
> 
> Did some sprinting to try and break the steerer tube, bunny hops, curb jumps, riding on stoned roads, bricked surfaces, no creaking or anything like that.
> 
> Ignore the blue saddle, going to change it to a black one when this one is worn out.
> 
> Was going for a matte black and red color scheme but the final product is so different from what I pictured in my head. Oh well.


Nice. I did go for matt black and red. I get a bit of movement in my headset, even with spacers compressed. Do you?

View attachment 284965


----------



## peterk

View attachment 284984


Built up this bike for my wife. From FLYXII. Beautiful frame, went together no problem. Converted her to a compact double (instead of triple) with an 11/36 cassette. She loves the range and the simplicity of just two chainrings up front.


----------



## syraleo

gloscherrybomb said:


> Nice. I did go for matt black and red. I get a bit of movement in my headset, even with spacers compressed. Do you?
> 
> View attachment 284965


nope, no movement in mine.

did you compress it down fully? 

or maybe check on your compression plug?


----------



## kbfore

Are the brakes mountain bike brakes? I have seen some SRAM road disc brakes, but no Shimano.


----------



## ms6073

Shimano currently offers CX-75 mechanical road discs and Di2 Hydraulic is coming.


----------



## ChevyDK

bitman said:


> Beware GreatKeen bike. I am an unhappy customer.
> 
> Ordered 49 cm rfm301 in early May, no paint, 3000k, gloss black, headset, seat post fork and clamp.
> 
> Emailed four times in May, finally got a tracking number. Bike shipped on 30 May, left via Hong Kong post. Interestingly, that is all that tracking number ever reported. Never any detail after departure.
> 
> Emailed multiple times in June. Received response half of the time, "please be patient". Repeat in July, and I suddenly got a _different_ tracking number that showed delivery to an address in Fremont, California. In early June. I live in San Antonio.
> 
> I emailed, and was told, "so sorry, our shipping department made a mistake, please contact ___________ at phone number _______ and arrange to have your package sent to you, and we will reimburse you". Ok. Soooooo, I called Fremont, and got another very agitated customer, who had received my package out of the blue. He _also_ has an ongoing issue with GreatKeen, and believes they shipped him my frame to appease him. Of course, he was not willing to ship the frame to me, either.
> 
> Back on email to GreatKeen. Only response so far (two weeks ago) is, "we are talking to _____ in Fremont". They have not answered my last three emails.
> 
> I've started a Paypal dispute. I suspect that I have lost my money, but I'm not going down easy. There are many other vendors who are willing to provide a quality product, but so far my experience with GreatKeen is horrible.
> 
> Let me know if you have questions.
> 
> Edit: I received my money back from my Paypal dispute on 26 July ... Two and a half months after initial order (16 May).
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2


I would be pissed too. 

I for one can say that we have bought 5 bikes from GK without any issues.


----------



## bitman

Yeah, well, as a result, I bought a different Chinese frame, from Bike Nashbar (their "nashbar carbon frame"). Not as sexy as the rfm301, but I waited a week to get it, and ... I got it. 

Dave


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

lith said:


> ...
> 
> [*]Rear dropout – according to Hong Fu, the FM166 comes in both 130 and 135mm. The CAD drawings they sent specified 130mm so I question this. When I ordered, they did ask which sizing I would like. I went with the 135mm for better hub compatibility
> [*]Disc mounts – these are post mounts. It should be noted that these mounts are designed for 140mm rotors. The measurements between the QR and the top of the post mount is 47.5mm (see image attachment #3 below). The bike pictured below is actually fitted with 160mm rotors. This requires a post mount adapter from Avid which isn’t always easy to find
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can I check the width of the forks? Is it 100mm? The XD711SB looks to be 100mm? :thumbsup:


----------



## bvber

peterk said:


> From FLYXII. Beautiful frame,


Which model is it?


----------



## lith

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Can I check the width of the forks? Is it 100mm? The XD711SB looks to be 100mm? :thumbsup:


Yeah, they're 100mm. Didn't specify in posting because it is quite common regardless of type of bike. Don't go for these Novatec unless you need disc mounts.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

lith said:


> ... Don't go for these Novatec unless you need disc mounts.


Thinking of getting myself the FM079 ...  ... btw ... What is the maximum tyre size that you think you can get into your frame and fork? 28mm?

Do you happen to have pictures of the tyre clearance at the seat stay, chain stay and forks? Much appreciated.


----------



## mrbubbles

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Thinking of getting myself the FM079 ...  ... btw ... What is the maximum tyre size that you think you can get into your frame and fork? 28mm?
> 
> Do you happen to have pictures of the tyre clearance at the seat stay, chain stay and forks? Much appreciated.


They totally ripped off Canyon. The noticeable difference is the bottom bracket junction.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

I don't know ... On closer inspection it looks to be different.

They could have just tried to design something close to what the manufacturers are coming out with, or as most carbon frames are manufacturer in China, the manufacturing plant may just tweaked the design slightly and then ships them out to Hongfu/Dengfu etc. We don't really know do we?


----------



## mrbubbles

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> I don't know ... On closer inspection it looks to be different.
> 
> They could have just tried to design something close to what the manufacturers are coming out with, or as most Icarbon frames are manufacturer in China, the manufacturing plant may just tweaked the design slightly and then ships them out to Hongfu/Dengfu etc. We don't really know do we?


Meh, I don't care how they do it, as long as they make these and sell them. I'm currently riding a Chinese carbon bike as well.


----------



## Swen6

syraleo said:


> By the way, what is this hole for?


Yes this holes for DI2, all the new 301s are Mech and Electric comparable. I've finished my build this week, Cavendish tribute, would post pics but due to rules, has cost £3,000 and that includes full Dura Ace 7900 DI2, will be dropping at the local shop today to have the derailers set up correctly, I just don't have the patience.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

Just wanted to check with anyone who have purchased a frame from Hongfu, have you encountered any problems with the frame so far?

Frame model:
Yr purchased:
Problems:
Yr sold:

(where applicable)

About 1 and half yrs ago, after monitoring this site and numerous correspondence with Hongfu, I was on the verge of getting the FM015, but went astray with a Ti frame on ebay instead. But since the FM079 is in the works, the bug has bitten again ... cheers


----------



## DanBell78

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Just wanted to check with anyone who have purchased a frame from Hongfu, have you encountered any problems with the frame so far?


I don't know if you only want to hear from people who have problems, but I bought an FM066SL from Hong Fu in January this year and everything has been perfect. Communication was prompt, shipping was fast, frame has been excellent with no issues whatsoever through about 4000 miles.


----------



## svard75

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Just wanted to check with anyone who have purchased a frame from Hongfu, have you encountered any problems with the frame so far?
> 
> Frame model:
> Yr purchased:
> Problems:
> Yr sold:


Fm015 ISP converted to non ISP
2011
No problems
Still own, over 2000k


----------



## mrcreosote

mrbubbles said:


> They totally ripped off Canyon. The noticeable difference is the bottom bracket junction.


And the head tube. And the seat tube on the Canyon has indent for the rear wheel. And the down tube on the Canyon looks tapered. So does the top tube. And the fork is different.

But apart from those things, total rip off.


----------



## mrbubbles

mrcreosote said:


> And the head tube. And the seat tube on the Canyon has indent for the rear wheel. And the down tube on the Canyon looks tapered. So does the top tube. And the fork is different.
> 
> But apart from those things, total rip off.


I still buy it, but I'm gonna wait til something with more tire clearance (and that's not a cyclocross bike with a cyclocross geometry).


----------



## tommysegoro

*Ac053*

Hi guys,

I just built an AC053 frame custom painted. I put Dura Ace DI2 9070 on it. Build details are as follows:
- Wheels: Chinese wheel 60mm rear with Dura-Ace hub, Chinese wheel 35mm front with Chinese hub
- Dura Ace DI2 9070
- Chinese titanium saddle
- Time ATAC CArbon XS pedal
- SRM Power Cranks

Total weight with bottle cages but without accessories: 8kg
Total weight with bottle cages and accessories (lights, etc): 8.7kg

Front wheel (with skewer and without tire): 850gr
Rear wheel (with skewer and without tire): 1370gr

Frame, fork and saddle post: 2034gr

I should have weighed the frame, fork and saddle post when it first arrived but I didn't so the number above was using backward calculation.












Another pleasant purchase. I didn't buy of Hongfu but rather a vendor from Aliexpress. Arrived in about a week to Australia from the date of shipping. I get LBS to build it and they didn't find any trouble whatsoever with the frame. Frame is DI2 specific.

Even though it's a bit heavy I still love the result nonetheless. I used to ride an AC001 (Chinarello) before and the AC053 is a lot better. Even with the weight it still climbs really well and stiff. I sense no flex at all. I did a 154km hilly ride last week and in the end I didn't feel beaten up. I didn't get any stiff neck or back pain so all is well for endurance long-distance ride.

Compared to AC001 the AC053 is a lot better for hills. I can now stand up and push while on AC001 standing up felt sooo dull. Cornering is also more precise and inspiring with the AC053. In fact, cornering is the discipline which I think AC053 excels.

The wheels hold speed very well. The rear one, with the weight, takes a bit longer to generate speed but once you're on the go they roll very-very well. Wheels are very comfy too and as they are carbon wheels, they suck up vibration pretty well. As with deep-dish wheel, the rear wheel get thrown left and right on cross wind. On headwind though the wheels cut it off very well.

All in all I love the bike. If you're interested with my full build experience I've written about it in detail in my blog but may not post the URL here.


----------



## ms6073

mrbubbles said:


> They totally ripped off Canyon.


Sure that frame has similarities, but have you tried to purchase a Canyon from the US? I have and unless you fly across the pond or have a contact in the UK/EU to act as a purchasing agent/exporter, it is not gonna happen!


----------



## DCash

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Just wanted to check with anyone who have purchased a frame from Hongfu, have you encountered any problems with the frame so far?
> 
> Frame model:
> Yr purchased:
> Problems:
> Yr sold:
> 
> (where applicable)
> 
> About 1 and half yrs ago, after monitoring this site and numerous correspondence with Hongfu, I was on the verge of getting the FM015, but went astray with a Ti frame on ebay instead. But since the FM079 is in the works, the bug has bitten again ... cheers


Frame model: FM015 non ISP 12K Matte size 58
Yr purchased:2013
Problems: Water bottle cage boss came loose, fixed with $6 tube of epoxy. Engine still needs a little work but almost got it tuned up right . 
Yr sold: Never, nope, not going to happen! 

She's still a baby with only 1,300 miles on her. I love every hot, windy, rainy, hilly mile on that bike.


----------



## Maglore

tommysegoro said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I just built an AC053 frame custom painted.
> 
> Total weight with bottle cages but without accessories: 8kg
> Total weight with bottle cages and accessories (lights, etc): 8.7kg
> 
> Front wheel (with skewer and without tire): 850gr
> Rear wheel (with skewer and without tire): 1370gr
> 
> Frame, fork and saddle post: 2034gr
> 
> I should have weighed the frame, fork and saddle post when it first arrived but I didn't so the number above was using backward calculation.


Thanks for the review. Too few people post their riding experience of open mould Chinese frames, which is very frustrating.

I'm surprised that your wheels are so heavy, especially the 35mm front. I would have hoped that the frame, fork and seatpost come in lower than over 2kg, as they quote around 1kg for the frame.

The bike looks great. What size is it?


----------



## The_Maraquis_of_Carabas

I have a 54cm FM039 and want to get an FM066 or an FM069. Which of the FM069's would most closely match my existing bike in terms of sizing, the 53cm or 55cm FM069?


----------



## tommysegoro

Maglore said:


> Thanks for the review. Too few people post their riding experience of open mould Chinese frames, which is very frustrating.
> 
> I'm surprised that your wheels are so heavy, especially the 35mm front. I would have hoped that the frame, fork and seatpost come in lower than over 2kg, as they quote around 1kg for the frame.
> 
> The bike looks great. What size is it?



My bike is 52cm (Small). I'm 5'7" (170cm). The supplier has get back to me on frame, fork and saddle post weight and they are:

AC053 frame,size 52,raw finish is 1140g
Fork is 420g
seatpost is 250g
TOTAL: 1810g

Mine is about 2kg I think can be due to the paint. I've re-calculated everything backwards using each of the components' advertised weight and I'm about 100-200gr over which I think can be due to the differences between the advertised weight and actual weight.

I'm totally fine with that because if you look at this PDF from Giant:
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/backoffice/_upload_au/WinWithGiant–RoadFrameTestData–FINAL.pdf

Look 596 Aero is 2444gr in weight (frame, fork, saddle post) which is way way more than the AC053. And yes, the AC053 is also an aero frame. So I think after all the AC053 is not too bad.

I think if I switch to lighter wheel (and tires) I can shave few hundred grams. I'm surprised myself that the wheels are that heavy especially the rear one.

There is another Chinese frame which I'm also very-very interested in., This one is made of T800 which is a better quality carbon and it's a lot lighter: 850gr frame + 360gr fork. IT's AC066. Check it out...it's a 2013 model so it is just available this year. I'll probably get myself one as my upcoming birthday present


----------



## MikeM95831

I recently received my Hongfu FM001 with straight forks, built it up with Centaur 10-speed and conventional 3x wheels... It's a great ride. Very smooth, I'd say it's a long-distance ride.


----------



## oddspam

*Zhongwei - The Velobuild scam*

Velobulid is a big site for reading about different Chinese carbon frames and other equipment. For a long time it organized groupbuys, and later it had it's own store.

Some time back, many of the big Chinese vendors left, and the guy probably lost a lot of revenues.

Some weeks ago, a new brand, Zhongwei, turned up in the discussion boards. A superperfectwonderful review was written about a frame from this vendor noone had seen before. By a "coincident", this was at the same time as the guy started a new shop for Chinese carbon. And by another coincident, Zhongwei was the only frame available.

I tried to ask a question about the history, as here was absolutely no reviews, neither at Velobuild, mtbr, roadbikereview or any other place found by Google. The result was that all my posts were deleted, and that I no longer was allowed to post.

Yesterday it was another "independent" test between Zhongwei, FM066 and another well known frame.

I then tried to make a new user asking the same questions. I'm now redirected to google.com just by trying to enter the forum.

I'm writing this in a try to get a fair discussion about Zhongwei. I find it very scary that one of the sites I trusted for advices turns out to be sensoring the discussion, and faking reviews.

So... Anyone had any experience with this brand?

KillerBee: Feel free to join the discussion, but we should do it here where you cannot sensor those asking questions.


----------



## Maglore

Posts and threads getting deleted and bans for users asking questions which the admin don't like on Velobuild are nothing new.


----------



## Maglore

tommysegoro said:


> My bike is 52cm (Small). I'm 5'7" (170cm). The supplier has get back to me on frame, fork and saddle post weight and they are:
> 
> AC053 frame,size 52,raw finish is 1140g
> Fork is 420g
> seatpost is 250g
> TOTAL: 1810g
> 
> Mine is about 2kg I think can be due to the paint. I've re-calculated everything backwards using each of the components' advertised weight and I'm about 100-200gr over which I think can be due to the differences between the advertised weight and actual weight.
> 
> I'm totally fine with that because if you look at this PDF from Giant:
> https://www.giant-bicycles.com/backoffice/_upload_au/WinWithGiant–RoadFrameTestData–FINAL.pdf
> 
> Look 596 Aero is 2444gr in weight (frame, fork, saddle post) which is way way more than the AC053. And yes, the AC053 is also an aero frame. So I think after all the AC053 is not too bad.
> 
> I think if I switch to lighter wheel (and tires) I can shave few hundred grams. I'm surprised myself that the wheels are that heavy especially the rear one.
> 
> There is another Chinese frame which I'm also very-very interested in., This one is made of T800 which is a better quality carbon and it's a lot lighter: 850gr frame + 360gr fork. IT's AC066. Check it out...it's a 2013 model so it is just available this year. I'll probably get myself one as my upcoming birthday present


Thanks for the feedback mate.  Looking at the AC066 frame, it looks just like the FM066 frame which other Chinese vendors are selling.


----------



## DanBell78

Nothing ever smelled right to me about Velobuild. The fact that almost no user has more than 100 posts speaks to the type of 'community' they've created.


----------



## DEF70

I have been looking at carbon frames for some time and saw something on eBay that fit my needs. The frame appeared to be an older style like an FM001. The price was 243.00 usd shipped. The frame showed up in about 2 weeks and was shipped from FlyBike. There was a run in the paint on the top tube but, other than that, everything appeared to be ok. Weight for the bare 56cm frame was 1212g on my Walmart digital scales.Put it together with Athena crank and fd and everything else Veloce. I really though I was going to get scammed at that price, but so far so good. Any one else have a similar experience?


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

Do post pictures ... if you can ... 

_Are we not able to post pictures directly now? Or does it need to be pictures that you have already posted on other websites?_


----------



## DEF70

Working on getting pics of my finished bike up.


----------



## DEF70

Cellphone photos. If I had a choice, I would get internal cabling. For the price, can't knock it.


----------



## plx

Can these frames handle stress?
I want to buy one but i'am worried about them cracking up

Some people say they're resistent some people say they're crap 
Anyways i saw this vid yesterday and i don't think iam buying one now


----------



## tommysegoro

plx said:


> Can these frames handle stress?
> I want to buy one but i'am worried about them cracking up
> 
> Some people say they're resistent some people say they're crap
> Anyways i saw this vid yesterday and i don't think iam buying one now


Mate,

To be honest I'm not sure how these frames handle. All I can tell you is, the AC053 is my second frame and I can't be any happier. I've taken it to hills ride, long distance ride, downhill ride, etc and still stay strong.

I don't know if I've mentioned this but last week I went for a 154km hilly ride. There were about 100 riders on the day and I heard that one of them, his rear branded carbon wheel blew up! I didn't ask what brand but that happened on a branded wheel. I used my Chinese wheels and were still strong as ever. 

The road in Perth, Western Australia is far from smooth especially outside the main city. After the ride my wheels didn't lose tension at all.

Same thing happen with frame mate. If you notice most of the frames we have (even the branded ones) are now made in Taiwan if not China. They use the same carbon mould and I've also heard so many horror stories about certain branded frames cracked after falling, etc. So I think with this in mind there is no guarantee.

Yes I agree the Chinese frames we buy may or may not go through the same detailed process for safety check, etc but on the other side of the argument, the branded frames also use the same carbon mould as the cheap ones. So I guess if the branded ones are strong then I don't see why the cheap ones are not if both are using the same carbon mould.

I will be participating in 3 Peaks Challenge in Victoria next year (March) and that would be on the mountains. I will bring the very AC053 and I will let you all know how that pans out. I only hope that none of the frames nor wheels crack on the descend!


----------



## plx

Ok, can you tell me where you bought them?


----------



## tommysegoro

plx said:


> Ok, can you tell me where you bought them?


If you go to Aliexpress.com you can find many vendors. Search for the one with diamonds icon next to it noting that they are more reputable suppliers.

I get mine personally from Miracle Cycle. They representative speaks English well. PM me for their email if you want.


----------



## tommysegoro

Also guys, I just received reply from the supplier re: weight for AC053:

AC053 frame,size 52,raw finish is 1140g
Fork is 420g
seatpost is 250g


So I guess as mine is custom painted with Matt Black I guess it would add up to 100gr. So after all my calculation above is not too far off.


----------



## DanBell78

plx said:


> Can these frames handle stress?
> I want to buy one but i'am worried about them cracking up
> 
> Some people say they're resistent some people say they're crap
> Anyways i saw this vid yesterday and i don't think iam buying one now


If you buy cheap shady crap from shady vendors at a price that's too good to be true, you will probably get what you pay for. Buy from Hong Fu, Deng Fu, Miracle, or the other reputable sellers mentioned in these threads, and you will get a decent quality product. If these frames were disintegrating under people, word would get around that the products are unsafe, and these companies would not be in business very long.

If you're really concerned, you could probably hedge your bets and buy a frame that's been around for a while as well, rather than a brand new design. This way you avoid any early-adopter issues with a new mold/layup process.


----------



## rbart4506

Branded frames and wheels break too...

Anecdotal evidence, two FM028's and two FM029's, all used for both training and racing. All are running strong with no issues. These bikes have been ridden over pretty well every type of road and every weather condition, they are fine...

Like the poster stated above, stick with the reputable guys and odds are you will get a quality product...


----------



## tmmartins

rbart4506 said:


> Branded frames and wheels break too...
> 
> Anecdotal evidence, two FM028's and two FM029's, all used for both training and racing. All are running strong with no issues. These bikes have been ridden over pretty well every type of road and every weather condition, they are fine...
> 
> Like the poster stated above, stick with the reputable guys and odds are you will get a quality product...


Just as rbart4506 is saying, I also have an FM029 from Dengfu in which rbart4506 helped be build, and I have had no issues and the quality of the frame was excellent. Stick with a know frame and a reputable seller and I believe you will be satisfied.


----------



## McGilli

I just want to say something about the video posted above where the guy snaps the bars.

When I first watched it - as soon as thew bars snapped the first thing I thought was "I bet he overtightened the stem and rally clamped on the bars"

May or may not be true - but many people aren't aware of proper clamping pressure when using carbon parts. One too many turns of a tool and you've radically decreased the integrity of a carbon bar.

Anyways - good advice about shopping on ALI from vendors with DIAMONDS by their reputation. And also - check to see if the product you are ordering has any feedback - it's nice having feedback specific to individual items, where Ebay the feedback really just gets lumped under the persons username.


----------



## DCash

McGilli said:


> I just want to say something about the video posted above where the guy snaps the bars.
> 
> When I first watched it - as soon as thew bars snapped the first thing I thought was "I bet he overtightened the stem and rally clamped on the bars"
> 
> May or may not be true - but many people aren't aware of proper clamping pressure when using carbon parts. One too many turns of a tool and you've radically decreased the integrity of a carbon bar.


Or: This is why you replace carbon bars after a crash. It looks like he knew it was going to happen.

The vendors selling blatant counterfeits(FSA, Pinarello, or the new Venge) seem to have a lot more complaints regarding quality control issues than the vendors selling house or unbranded open molds.


----------



## Tresdandre

Chinese bikes are here to stay whether people like it or not. There are reputable Chinese manufacturers and others that are not. If you stick to a reputable supplier you will likely end up with a quality product. Forums like this can help alot. I have a new Dengfu Aero Road FM098 and it is a killer bike. 

Right off the bat I noticed the responsiveness of the carbon frame on the moderate uphills close to home. This frame is adequately stiff without being unresponsive when you need it to be. You can really feel its stiffness on out of the saddle climbs. I would not classify the Dengfu Aero Road as a climber, because its strength for me is the ability to sustain good velocity and cadence on the flat and more slightly rolling terrain. While taking it slow at the start I found that this bike literally dove into the corners and it did it without being the least bit twitchy. The old adage of look through the turn to where you want to go holds very true with this bike. You only need a slight shift in your weight to go where you want to. This is especially true if you are in the drops. I feel very coupled to the road and I lost any doubts I had about the clinchers and carbon wheels in very short order. Even without my computer on my first few rides I knew those first few corners were much faster than on my normal bike. This bike is very responsive at higher speeds.

Riding Costa Rica’s roads is a constant challenge of vigilance because of the numerous pot holes, cracks, and crevices that exist just about everywhere. On initial descents in less familiar territory I had admitted concern about my new carbon wheels. However after hitting some bad spots that couldn’t be avoided at pretty high speeds I soon lost my thoughts of what could go wrong and concentrated on my riding. Downhill on this bike is as exhilarating as it can get on two wheels. 

Take your time, do your research, and you will come up with something you will be very proud of and that services your needs very well.


----------



## twiggy

McGilli said:


> I just want to say something about the video posted above where the guy snaps the bars.
> 
> When I first watched it - as soon as thew bars snapped the first thing I thought was "I bet he overtightened the stem and rally clamped on the bars"
> 
> May or may not be true - but many people aren't aware of proper clamping pressure when using carbon parts. One too many turns of a tool and you've radically decreased the integrity of a carbon bar.
> 
> Anyways - good advice about shopping on ALI from vendors with DIAMONDS by their reputation. And also - check to see if the product you are ordering has any feedback - it's nice having feedback specific to individual items, where Ebay the feedback really just gets lumped under the persons username.



I believe this is why he shows the toruq wrench towards the end... to show that he had torqued it correctly. Interestingly enough, two guys in my city had similar experiences with knockoff FSA parts breaking.... I have a knockoff FSA seatpost, but I don't feel quite as concerned about it knowing that its likely a lower-risk failure part than a handlebar.

As far as Chineese carbon frames go, I think its all just a matter of how much risk one is willing to take with their own safety and how much responsibility for that safety one expects the manufacturer to assume. I would never buy an unbranded road frame as I ride my bike so much AND race at such high speeds that I want to be certain that appropriate testing has been done to prove that my frame's failure is unlikely... and I also want to be certain that IF my frame does fail for a reason other than my own neglegence I'll have the support of my LBS and the local rep in going back to the company for damages/replacement. 

For me, when it comes to a TT bike it may be a different story.... TT bikes are so expensive for the 4-5 times a year that I'll use one that I'm considering buying a chineese carbon TT frame...I figure there is less risk in a TT bike as I'd use it much less and all of our TT courses are smooth as silk anyways. I would just have to buy it knowing that if it breaks I'm likely on my own and the chances of getting any support from Hongfu/Dengfu/etc etc is likely low to nil.


----------



## GrahamSimmons

Hi guys!

I'm incredibly vain about my bike and as such I want to get a stem that matches the angle of my top tube. Here's the build - went with a local company that imports + builds up bikes so I got the value of chinese carbon with the warranty of a local business 

Tips the scales at 6 and a half kilos!

So yeah, my Deda Zero currently has some rise. What stem angle should I get to be parallel?

EDIT: Please don't shout at me about the pedals! I haven't cooked my shoe soles yet on my 4-bolts, the Speedplays are going on next week!


----------



## LONDON-GUY

Nice build but the saddle would have to go if it was mine looks like a cheap BMX saddle that dont fit in with the rest of the build. Are the logo,s and name transfers painted or stickers or waterslide transfers ?


----------



## colnagoG60

GrahamSimmons said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> I'm incredibly vain about my bike and as such I want to get a stem that matches the angle of my top tube. Here's the build - went with a local company that imports + builds up bikes so I got the value of chinese carbon with the warranty of a local business
> 
> Tips the scales at 6 and a half kilos!
> 
> So yeah, my Deda Zero currently has some rise. What stem angle should I get to be parallel?
> 
> EDIT: Please don't shout at me about the pedals! I haven't cooked my shoe soles yet on my 4-bolts, the Speedplays are going on next week!



Kinda hard to tell if your stem has any rise, from any of your pics. If it does, what does it look like if you flip it?


----------



## DCash

GrahamSimmons said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> I'm incredibly vain about my bike and as such I want to get a stem that matches the angle of my top tube. Here's the build - went with a local company that imports + builds up bikes so I got the value of chinese carbon with the warranty of a local business
> 
> Tips the scales at 6 and a half kilos!
> 
> So yeah, my Deda Zero currently has some rise. What stem angle should I get to be parallel?
> 
> EDIT: Please don't shout at me about the pedals! I haven't cooked my shoe soles yet on my 4-bolts, the Speedplays are going on next week!


Nice looking bike. 

What is the angle of your current stem? I have an FM015 and my 8 degree Deda Quattro looks about the same as yours. Since you paid the premium for the shop build; call and see if you can try out some different angled stems. Might even be able to swap it for free if the bike is still as clean as it looks the picture.

Do what you have to do now! As soon as you start riding it you won't want to take time off for any reason.


----------



## persondude27

DCash said:


> Nice looking bike.
> 
> What is the angle of your current stem? I have an FM015 and my 8 degree Deda Quattro looks about the same as yours. Since you paid the premium for the shop build; call and see if you can try out some different angled stems. Might even be able to swap it for free if the bike is still as clean as it looks the picture.
> 
> Do what you have to do now! As soon as you start riding it you won't want to take time off for any reason.


Yeah... definitely an FM015, but I think that an 8 degree is pretty close. I had a +/-6 and it seemed up there. Might also be a ten degree.

It's funny you say you're vain! Given the opportunity, I would ALWAYS run a -17 to be flat... too bad a +/-6 fits me better. :-\


----------



## andrew_r

I'm aware that these threads get very, very long so would not want to assist in pushing this one too O.T. but I *think* I have a relevant query here as it relates to the Chinese frames and comparison with major brands.
I'm not racing at the present - I did so for 10+ years but I do still commute the 35 mile round trip most days and also take off some days for 1 - 2 hour thrashes and I've a big fancy to doing a Flanders sportive or silimar in the next year or 2.
I currently ride an 8+ year old fairly high-end Alu frame with good components on it which is prob sub 8kgs. I've fancied a carbon frame for a few years now and have considered Chinese/Taiwan direct as I hate the idea of chucking money at a frame that has a lot of it's cost in the downtube sticker.
To source a big-brand carbon frame that is at an equivalent level to my existing Alu frame I've picked out some of the current medium/high level bikes/frames available and wonder what the comparisons to these a frame like the FM06 / FM066SL would be like - any views gratefully accepted. Some of these are and of season deals, some maybe small price reductions but I'd look to hitting a build close to £2000GBP if I can.
Looking for a light & stiff frame that won't batter me too much and has a racy but not severe position.
Canyon CF/CF SLX / Aeroad
Cube Lightning
Ridley Excaliber/Helium
Cervelo - the 'new' Dark R3,
Scott Foil.
Even the 'Dale Supersix which is available at an attractive price with low-level components.

I month or 2 back I missed the opportunity of a Scott Addict SL frame and that was one of the drivers that got me looking for a new nice, light carbon frame.

I've seen comments from direct-frame owners saying that they didn't view there being significant noticable ride differences between theirs and their mates' branded frames but, for example, Cervelo are introducing a new R3 Dark which appears to use the current pro-level R5 frame - surely (?) the frame as ridden to Pro-Tour wins has something over these £3-400 frames ?
A few years back I sourced a Karbona TT frame so I'm not averse to goign direct to save money.
Sorry for the ramble ...


----------



## c_klein87

My newly assembled FM066SL 56cm, the frame was 900grams which seems about average. Sram Red Groupo, Planet X cnc brakes, 200grams a pair, Strada carbon Tubulars, will get a matching Thomson stem once i'm settled on position. 15lbs 3oz which seems silly light coming for an Mtb background


----------



## DanBell78

andrew_r said:


> surely (?) the frame as ridden to Pro-Tour wins has something over these £3-400 frames ?


Is there a difference? Sure. Will you notice it? Unlikely. I think that unless you are riding or racing at a high level and pushing your equipment to its limits, you won't notice whatever difference there might be between a good open-mold frame and a good name-brand frame. Of course all of that depends on how much better you personally might _feel_ on a name-brand frame. This effect shouldn't be discounted, regardless of how 'real' it is.

For what it's worth, three of the fastest guys I ride with are on open-mold generic frames (as am I, but I'm slow). One of them was a pro rider in Europe in the 70's and he loves his FM066SL.


----------



## BikeInCanada

Hey everyone,

Been reading the various threads on this topic and man, there is a lot of good information. You guys rock.

Im contemplating the possibility of building up a bike. The frame seems to be pretty easy, as per these threads. But where are you all getting your groupsets from? Are you buying locally? Ebay? Amazon? Just curious is all. 

Thanks a bunch!!


----------



## DCash

andrew_r said:


> surely (?) the frame as ridden to Pro-Tour wins has something over these £3-400 frames ?


The Trek Madone 4.6(?) I demoed last fall is a better bike than my Chinese build. The Specialized Venge I rode for the SRAM 22 demo is also a better bike than mine. I rode the Trek during the demo this year, it is still a better bike than my Chinese build.

*Frames:* My FM015 has the advantage because I tuned it to fit me perfectly over the first month I owned it. The most aggressive position of three also made it feel a little quicker. The Trek is the most relaxed and seems like it would be comfortable position for riding a double but doesn't give up anything on race day, needed deeper drop bars. The Venge fits right in the middle. More aggressive than the Madone but a higher riding position than the FM015. Fast through the turns and very stable at 45+ mph Verdict: Fit difference was more noticeable than frame differences.

*Drive trains:* Madone: Shimano Ultegra, crisp shifts, handles power well, quiet, I don't like the levers. Venge: SRAM Force 22, shorter throw than previous generations, louder than Shimano, seems to engage shift faster, very comfortable hoods. FM015: Sram Rival with Force FD 105 cassette and Ultegra chain, mine, quiet, smooth, I take care of it and it takes care of me. Winner: SRAM 22 on a bike tuned my factory mechanics after each ride.

*Wheels:* Madone : Bontrager Aeolus(sp), light, quick, feel the power transfer with every pedal stroke, make you want to go faster, 25mm Bont' tires. Venge: Zipp 404 Firecrest, there is a reason so many people ride these! 25mm Specialized tires. FM015 Vuelta Corsa Lite, light, spin up fast, roll easy, a little flexy cornering over 35mph :eek6:$200, 23mm Vittoria Rubino Pro. Winner: Zipp 404!

*Price:* Trek Madone 4.6 $4,200(quote from rep). Specalized Venge Sram Force 22 $5,000 .est(groupset was not available at the time of demo) Zipp 404's not included. My FM015 $1,600 full build, $875 out of pocket this year. Winner FM015.

My verdict: In my highly un-scientific comparison I have come to the conclusion that the difference in how the frame fits and is dressed is a more noticeable than the difference in these three frames themselves. I'll upgrade my wheels after I Cat up.

Find the frame that fits your riding style and build it with the parts you want. 

The 25mm tires are a noticeable improvement in comfort and handling. I'm on my last set of 23's before converting all my wheels to 25's.


----------



## andrew_r

Could you say the cost + source of your SL ? I like the stealthy/minimalist look.


----------



## glepore

I have an 066 and love it,big improvement over the 7 yr old Madone I was on. The one guy I know that had an R3 and now has an 066 likes the 066 as much. My only complaint about the 066 is the overly stiff front triangle, it could use a little compliance, but haven't directly compared it to the Cervelos. I do know that it is one of the issues Cervelo is attempting to address, ie the reduced diameter of the newest top end r5 fork.

In the end, the build makes more difference than the frame. Invest the money you save in Ultegra Di2 or something-that will make a greater difference to your riding experience than a top name brand frame, by far.


----------



## andrew_r

Dian3men said:


> The frame/fork combo was quoted to me at $360 (+80 shipping)




Hong Fu ruight ?
Can I also check what method (direct/ Aliexpress ?) you used to setup the frame order ?


----------



## Tresdandre

DCash said:


> The Trek Madone 4.6(?) I demoed last fall is a better bike than my Chinese build. The Specialized Venge I rode for the SRAM 22 demo is also a better bike than mine. I rode the Trek during the demo this year, it is still a better bike than my Chinese build.


Enjoyed your post. It came accross as honest and straight forward. Curious to know what you mean by "better bike" in your quote above.


----------



## UnkeptHerbivore

Hi,
just wondering if this is a reputable seller? FR 315 Full carbon matt matte road frame bike Frame Fork Seatpost 50cm , 52cm , 54cm, 56cm, 58cm-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com

Thanks!


----------



## bobraider

Hey folks - does anyone have any details on this frame? 2014 Aero Upgraded Version Road Racing Bicycle Frame SET Full Carbon Bike Frame | eBay 

Also - it looks like the dengfu site is down - are they still around?

Thanks!


----------



## tmmartins

Also - it looks like the dengfu site is down - are they still around?

Thanks!
Dengfu better be around, I have a set of wheels on order with them.


----------



## Tresdandre

Put FR-315 in the Aliexpress search engine and see the results. Then put FR-315 in Google and you will find the manufacturer of this frame model. Candy yang's store is probably a re-seller and it looks like they handle mainly bicycle frames and components. This does not make them less reputable by any means, but my experience is that it is best to communicate directly with the manufacturer when you can. One of the advantages of Chinese manufaturers is that you can communicate directly with the people who make your bike frame. The reputable manufacturers stand behind their product with a reasonable guarantee. That may or may not be the case with a re-seller.


----------



## bobraider

Looks like this is the AC053 or MC053. Who's the best to buy from? I've worked with Dengfu before and DIY-Bike on ebay, any recommendations on a supplier for this frame?


----------



## McGilli

UnkeptHerbivore said:


> Hi,
> just wondering if this is a reputable seller?
> 
> Thanks!


I have ordered two things from that store - both arrived - and quality was great. They always responded to my questions pretty fast - taking into account the time change....


----------



## mrbubbles

Holy cow that didn't take long at all.


----------



## Tresdandre

​For an aero road frame FM098 I had very good luck with Dengfu and would recommend them too. I am very happy with the results. Kathy and Tony were very responsive to my requests.


----------



## UnkeptHerbivore

McGilli said:


> I have ordered two things from that store - both arrived - and quality was great. They always responded to my questions pretty fast - taking into account the time change....


Okay thanks, I'm going to order directly from flyxii's site. Do people have dealings with this site? They're not another scam site are they? Just want to double check before I purchase


----------



## andrew_r

I've now given consideration and the FM066-SL is appealing to me : I like the shape, the similarities (not copy) to Cervelo R3/R5 and the light weight.
Question : who on here has ordered one and what is seen as a good source : over on Velobuild I see that Honor Bikes are quite popular and seem to be pretty reliable but they don't get too much of a mention here, others such as Deng Fu, HongFu are more commonly used.
What's the most cost-effective way of sourcing one : direct with Honor Bikes - or another company or a Velobuild GB ? What is the expected cost ?


----------



## blueapplepaste

Probably a dumb question but I thinking of building a tt bike over winter but have a question on a particular frame. How does the rear derailer mount on this bike? I don't see a hanger for it to mount to. Also, what are the nobs poking out on either side of where the rear wheel mounts?

http://bit.ly/YGXwrz


----------



## twiggy

blueapplepaste said:


> Probably a dumb question but I thinking of building a tt bike over winter but have a question on a particular frame. How does the rear derailer mount on this bike? I don't see a hanger for it to mount to. Also, what are the nobs poking out on either side of where the rear wheel mounts?
> 
> http://bit.ly/YGXwrz


Looking at the geometry picure on the bottom there appears to be a bolt-on derailleur mount.... those nobs are wheel-centering screws... you use them to make sure the wheel is centered in 'horizontal dropouts' and to control the distance between the wheel and the frame.


----------



## blueapplepaste

Thanks for the quick reply. I saw the geometry Sketch but thought it might have been a mistake based off the pics.

I've never seen anything like that. Is it common? Specific to TT bikes? A pain it easy to deal with?


----------



## bob.satan

I got a Hongfu FM066 for the wife. She had a box of ultegra parts from when she upgraded her lemond to Di2, so we thought she could build a light cheap frame with the extra parts and get some new wheel for the lemond and then have a bike to leave in australia

Given the fact that we live in HK, the frame was paid for on Monday and delivered to our door yesterday. 

I took it out the box and with the plastic plugs still in the BB and the plastic spacer at the rear, the frame weighed 878gm and the fork with the plastic spacer 364gm

I think the bike will weigh in at 7kg (given the older parts and wheels), it shoudl be finished next week and I will put the full details in with the weight


----------



## andrew_r

blueapplepaste said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. I saw the geometry Sketch but thought it might have been a mistake based off the pics.
> 
> I've never seen anything like that. Is it common? Specific to TT bikes? A pain it easy to deal with?


I've a TT bike (a Karbona I imported a few years ago) and I've not found that it is a pain - you can't just undo the QR and drop the wheel out as you need to undo the QR then pull the wheel backwards whilst stretching the mech out of the way but I've got it down to a 'T' and am not bothered by that process at all.


----------



## Missbaksel

Well hello there.

The roadbike frame from flyxi caught my attention. It is the FLX-FR-321. However i can't find anything about it on forums. Is there someone here who has experience with buying from FLYXI ? 

kind regards


----------



## ms6073

blueapplepaste said:


> I've never seen anything like that. Is it common? Specific to TT bikes? A pain it easy to deal with?


Adjusters of some type like that have always been a feature for fixed gear/track bikes. High end road frames back in the 80's to the early 90's used to have similar adjusters but it kind of fell off the radar when vertical dropouts came to the forefront.


----------



## arrkaye

Are you saying that the AliBaba Zhongwei store is not to be trusted?

I'm considering ordering a frame from there...


----------



## ihs0y.

Hey guys, just wanted to quickly update on the problem I had with the MC053 a couple of weeks ago.

So very briefly, I had a blockage in the right chainstay, making it impossible to pass the cable through to the rear derailleur. I contacted Mecy of Miracle Carbon on the issue and she suggested I send the frame back.

It arrived, inspected and Mecy confirmed the blockage.

SO WHAT HAPPENED:
Mecy told me she will replace the frame with a brand new one (they had one in stock so I didn't wait long) and compensated for the shipping back to me.

Everything went smoothly and I got the bike built up.

If you're interested to know, I was riding a full alu frame with 2300 groupset and this frame is a HUGE upgrade and the differences are extreme.

First of all, you get a lot of compliments on how the frame looks (I do plan to get some decals on but haven't gotten around doing so).
The shifting and all is smooth; I'm not sure if the groupset upgrade was the reason or if the integration of the groupset with the frame altogether could be a reason (I use Campagnolo Athena).
AND, climbing up the hill is.. so, so, so, so, so, so much easier.

*TL;DR: *
Mecy replaced my defected frame immediately no questions asked and the frame is GREAT.


----------



## redstarcap

Just pulled the plug and pay my order for Zhongwei R-002
The sales guy, Chris, told me it's going to take 20 days to complete my order
Bcos they don't have R-002 Di2 ready in stock
I order bunch of stuffs together with the frame (seatpost, saddle, spacer, bottle cage, handlebar, and stem)
Hope it delivers on time..


----------



## toolong

Could someone do me a favor and take photo of their aero road frame with tire installed...A photo like







would be helpful. This photo is from hongfu FM139. I'm looking for a road bike that can take a fatter tire for some rough pavement on my commute. Currently riding it on my cx bike, could use something faster.


----------



## redstarcap

Just ordered a frame from Zhongwei
I don't think they are not trustworthy, 
It's just a forum owner got a free bike from them, and post a very nice review on the bike
About the same with a cycling website got a nice gift from a certain bike company, and they wrote nice articles about them
from my point of view, it's nothing personal, it's just business

FYI, I've contacted several company to buy a frame from them
So far, here's my experience
Flyxii, they answer email probably once everyday, and the emails are very short, so some of the question never got answered. But their stuffs are cheap
Dengfu, Same with flyxii, but they answered all the question I asked, prices are normal
Zhongwei, I think I only wait for several hours before I got my email replied. Prices are normal, but I like how they handle customers (I did mention I'm a member of velobuild and RBR)


----------



## nicoritschel

I have 2 frames on the way from Zhongwei. It's really not an issue of trust... Chris has been awesome to work with and very timely. 

The reality of the matter is that the owner of Velobuild is trying to setup a storefront and take a percentage of each sale. The prices listed through his channels are ~15-20% higher than direct prices. 

Business.


----------



## meerkite

I have a FM098 and have a small amount of movement in the headset, It currently has a NECO installed, Can anyone recommend another headset, high quality prefered. Im looking at a Cane creek but unsure exactly of the size, I have put my vernier caliper on the bearings and they dont quite match the stamping on the bearings, What headsets are other FM098 riders using ?


----------



## stukov

Helo!
I am new to the forums.
I have a nice DeRosa Planet frame made of aluminum alloy.
Yesterday I noticed a few cm's crack on the headtube...I almost cried. I will try to get it repaired, but I need somthing other...

I read góhere that the DeRosa R838 and Ribble Stealth are the same frame as the chinese "FM339". I found no information here about this frame. Is it unpopular or hard to source it? Can anyone give me correct supplier from I could get it?
I found it or similar one on alibaba, but closer info would be better.
thx...


----------



## svard75

Gorm said:


> I am looking to build a road bike. Dengfu FM098 and Honor Bike FM066 SL are my favorites. It's a hard choice for me. It's said that the FM066 SL is super light but has flex. Is it strong enough? It's my biggest concern. Dengfu is popular here. But on the Velobuild, Honor Bike seems quite popular but no discussions here. Especially, Mark with Honor Bike has got very good comments, reliable, fast response, good service, the best supplier of FM066 SL, etc. on the Velobuild. Has anyone bought frames from the guys with Honor Bike? I will contact him and keep posting here about the process.


You likely won't get larger than 25. Not so much the width rather the diameter which will interfere with the seat tube.


----------



## svard75

ihs0y. said:


> Hey guys, just wanted to quickly update on the problem I had with the MC053 a couple of weeks ago.
> 
> So very briefly, I had a blockage in the right chainstay, making it impossible to pass the cable through to the rear derailleur. I contacted Mecy of Miracle Carbon on the issue and she suggested I send the frame back.
> 
> It arrived, inspected and Mecy confirmed the blockage.
> 
> SO WHAT HAPPENED:
> Mecy told me she will replace the frame with a brand new one (they had one in stock so I didn't wait long) and compensated for the shipping back to me.
> 
> Everything went smoothly and I got the bike built up.
> 
> If you're interested to know, I was riding a full alu frame with 2300 groupset and this frame is a HUGE upgrade and the differences are extreme.
> 
> First of all, you get a lot of compliments on how the frame looks (I do plan to get some decals on but haven't gotten around doing so).
> The shifting and all is smooth; I'm not sure if the groupset upgrade was the reason or if the integration of the groupset with the frame altogether could be a reason (I use Campagnolo Athena).
> AND, climbing up the hill is.. so, so, so, so, so, so much easier.
> 
> *TL;DR: *
> Mecy replaced my defected frame immediately no questions asked and the frame is GREAT.


Interesting how you spun that negative experience around so quickly. If it was checked out before shipping to you it would have been avoided. I would not be praising them for this.


----------



## dragon666

Hey, my bike is all for me. Why the hell would I pawn it off as a copy. I'm proud of my chinarello.


----------



## rbart4506

dragon666 said:


> Hey, my bike is all for me. Why the hell would I pawn it off as a copy. I'm proud of my chinarello.


You need to take the photo down...

RBR policy is no photos of counterfeit frames, which your's is... They take this seriously...


----------



## Coolhand

*moderators note*

As noted above, no counterfeit photos please. We want to keep this great resource available for everyone. :thumbsup:


----------



## dragon666

Coolhand said:


> As noted above, no counterfeit photos please. We want to keep this great resource available for everyone. :thumbsup:


oh. I'm very sorry. Didn't know. 

In any case, I'm very happy with my copy. I wouldn't mind if it was just matt/glossy carbon. I'm quite impressed with the quality and how light the whole thing is. It weighs just as quoted by the seller on aliexpress. 

Had a little bit of trouble with bottom bracket installation due to resin/paint and lock tight adhesive on the cups by Campagnolo. Also there is a 3 mm gap between fork steerer and head tube.


----------



## Dogdude222

*HongFu FM166 Disc Video Review*

Fellow cyclists-

I made a video review of my experience building up and riding one of the new disc brake bikes from HongFu. I did a similar thing for my LTK023 on MTBR, and it seems like folks found it helpful. I hope that this can help some people here be better informed as well.

Thanks!


----------



## Kivelae

Hi all,

does anyone have any ideas why Dengfubikes site is down?

I got interested in FM029 frame and it would be nice if it was still available...
This is the same thing I guess, or is it?: Dengfu Sports Equipment Co., Limited - carbon frame,carbon wheel

-jani


----------



## dragon666

I got one similar to this:

carbon frame and fork carbon frameset carbon bicycle parts, View carbon frame, dengfu Product Details from Dengfu Sports Equipment Co., Limited on Alibaba.com

i paid $1200 for frame, integrated handlebar, fork, seatpost, 50mm clincher wheel set, bottle cage, including paintwork and shipping. Like I said, very impressed with the product I got. Very light and very stiff.


----------



## joeturner

I've just started building up my FM086 TT. I got the correct TRP brakes and all, however I'm running into an issue with the rear brake. The TRP brakes require holes in the frame for the spring to sit in (to create brake tension). I have a hole on the right side in the rear, but none in the left side, so I can't mount the spring. There are holes on both sides in the front though. Has anyone run into this or a similar issue with the FM086 (or probably FM069)?

Thanks,
Joe


----------



## myhui

*How to terminate cable housing as it enters frame's down tube for internal routing*

I hope you guys can help me here:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/components-wrenching/how-terminate-cable-housing-enters-frames-down-tube-internal-routing-311084.html


----------



## myhui

dragon666 said:


> oh. I'm very sorry. Didn't know.
> 
> In any case, I'm very happy with my copy. I wouldn't mind if it was just matt/glossy carbon.


Mine is glossy carbon and I love it.

Why did you specify a replica paint scheme?


----------



## f3rg

toolong said:


> Could someone do me a favor and take photo of their aero road frame with tire installed...A photo like
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> would be helpful. This photo is from hongfu FM139. I'm looking for a road bike that can take a fatter tire for some rough pavement on my commute. Currently riding it on my cx bike, could use something faster.


I have the FM015, and I've fit Conti 4000S tires in a 25c, which actually measure the same as a typical 28c, and there was still room to spare for clearance. I now ride the same tire in a 23c, and it measures almost exactly as a 25c.


----------



## The_Maraquis_of_Carabas

*Phone Numbers for DengFu*

Can someone throw up phone numbers for DengFu? I was dealing with Kathy Jin and just have this number (never get an answer on weekdays): +86 075533075585

I am in china and a friend is making the calls for me so I'm aware I drop the international code etc. 

Alternatively, email address/Skype usernames of other reps/the boss would be useful also. 

Cheers.


----------



## Dingleberry88

Dogdude222 said:


> Fellow cyclists-
> 
> I made a video review of my experience building up and riding one of the new disc brake bikes from HongFu. I did a similar thing for my LTK023 on MTBR, and it seems like folks found it helpful. I hope that this can help some people here be better informed as well.
> 
> Thanks!


I'm considering the FM079, which looks fairly similar but with full internal cabling. So thanks for the video!


Couple of questions, even though they're not about the frame:

What model Easton bar is that? Looks a bit like the EC90 Aero, which I'm also considering...

I can see you've got Shimano rotors, but what brakes did you go for?


----------



## Fragonard

*Building a Chine Carbon bike*

This is my first post on here and I'm not knowledgeable about bikes. I do own a Cube Aerial which I've had for a few years. I'm thinking of purchasing a Chinese frame/fork combination in the hope that I can save a some money in doing so. If I do this, would I be advised to buy other components too from China? What kind of saving would one make by building from scratch using Chinese components? Thanks.


----------



## Randy99CL

I see a lot of problems with what you want to do.
I'm not trying to discourage you but you need a pretty high level of knowledge to be able to build a good bike from scratch.

What kind of bike do you want to build?
Frame size is really important; do you know enough to look at a geometry chart and pick the right frame?
Do you want a bike with race or endurance/comfort geometry?
What components do you plan to buy? Exactly what individual parts will you use? 
What kind of wheels do you need for your weight and type of riding?

You may not realize that it is always more expensive to build a bike from new parts. I read once that if you add up the price of all the parts in a $30K car it will cost $300K to build it yourself, and I bet that is a low estimate.
The only way it is cheaper to build from parts is if you get amazing deals off fleabay or craigslist, but do you know enough to pick good stuff and not waste your money on junk?

The only way to do this right is to plan every single piece you'll need and add up the cost before you buy anything. 
Let's say the frame/fork is $400 with shipping, a 105 group is around $400, wheels are $300 and you still need pedals and bars and stem and seatpost and saddle and tires and tubes and little bits and pieces for maybe $300 more.
Nashbar has a Fuji with full carbon frame/fork and mostly 105 components for $1250 and with the frequent 20% off sales (like today) it is $1000 with a real US warranty.
Fuji SL-1 Comp LE Road Bike - Drop Bar Road

I'm not saying you should buy the Fuji, just giving you the example that it would be hard to build that bike for that amount, especially when you take the brand name and warranty into account.
Another option is BikesDirect; they have really good prices but you have to get the sizing right.

I have built bikes and appreciate the "custom" factor but was always disappointed to add up the total cost and realize that I could have bought a complete bike for less.


----------



## bigbill

Neuvation carbon with 105. Done.


----------



## tihsepa

You know its a knockoff when they spell China wrong.


----------



## bigbill

tihsepa said:


> You know its a knockoff when they spell China wrong.


Or Qaulity.


----------



## BikeInCanada

Hey guys,

Got a quick question on these frames.

not sure if each frame is different but what are the seat post hole sizes? Im trying to put a parts list together (some as xmas presents) and I was looking at ebay for seatposts. They are a bunch of different diameters. So I was wondering if any of you knew, off hand, what the sizes on these frames generally were?

Thanks a bunch.


----------



## .je

tihsepa said:


> You know its a knockoff when they spell China wrong.


How safe are these car ramps then?


----------



## Roland44

bigbill said:


> Neuvation carbon with 105. Done.


+1 on this!


----------



## meeeeep

I keep trying to view hongfu's website but I keep getting DNS errors. Anyone else getting this problem?


----------



## spdntrxi

.je said:


> How safe are these car ramps then?


and yet they manage to spell Pinarello correctly.


----------



## bike_paul

Yeah dengfu's site is down for me too..

About to order a frame and looking for decals. Any pointers where to get them printed? I don't really speak Portuguese, so Marco isn't an option for me. 

Thanks!


----------



## McGilli

bike_paul said:


> About to order a frame and looking for decals. Any pointers where to get them printed? I don't really speak Portuguese, so Marco isn't an option for me.
> 
> Thanks!


I just recently ordered some HED decals for my HED disc wheel. I bought them from Swifty Stickers in the UK. I'm in Canada. Shipped asap, and arrived fast.

The quality of them is actually much better than any other decals I've ordered before. Many places just send you 'stickers' or 'decals' - you just peel them off and stick them on.

These are the kind that arrive on vinyl, and you apply them - and once you are happy with them - then you have to remove the front facing see through vinyl to finish the application. Worked great.

Anyways that is who I recommend.

SwiftyStickers Online Sticker Shop | SwiftyStickers.co.uk

Does bike frame and wheel decals.
Does custom work too.


----------



## Davi37ggs

I would assume most people needing a 60cm bike would be a larger individual, and for us stiffness can be a premium.


----------



## Kivelae

Dengfu's site has been down for few weeks now, but I chatted online with Kathy Jin of Dengfubikes yesterday and she told me to wait a couple of days for the website to come back alive.


----------



## Fragonard

Yes....I noticed that I had incorrectly written the word Chinese. I live in the UK by the way. I don't think it's possible to change it now ie the miss-spelled word. Thank you for the replies. I thought that maybe building your own would be cheaper. I do have a friend who would be able to help me with any technical problems.


----------



## tmmartins

bike_paul said:


> Yeah dengfu's site is down for me too..
> 
> About to order a frame and looking for decals. Any pointers where to get them printed? I don't really speak Portuguese, so Marco isn't an option for me.
> 
> Thanks!


Marco will communicate in English. Many have used him. Even though I speak Portuguese, it is a bit broken and he had no problem with my English. His decals are the best anywhere.


----------



## tmmartins

meeeeep said:


> I keep trying to view hongfu's website but I keep getting DNS errors. Anyone else getting this problem?


Hongfu works, it's Dengfu that is down.


----------



## Randy99CL

Fragonard said:


> I live in the UK by the way. Thank you for the replies. I thought that maybe building your own would be cheaper. I do have a friend who would be able to help me with any technical problems.


Ignore the responses to your spelling. People just try to find humor when they can.

I suspected you may be British when you mentioned the Cube Aerial.

The problem is that the bike manufacturers pay significantly less for components when they buy in large quantities.

For example, I recently saw a sale ad for the Shimano Ultegra Di2 groupset for $3K. Another company has a really nice bike with that group for $3650 with high-level frame, wheels and other pieces. In this case it would be worth buying the whole bike and selling off everything but the Di2 components. Or replacing the Di2 with 105 or regular Ultegra and having another good bike to ride or sell.

As I'd written, just add up the prices of everything you want on the bike and compare it to what you'd be able to buy whole.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

Yes. It is definitely cheaper to get the whole bike. But if you are picky about the components on it, then you might better off building the bike from scratch.

There is the risk that the components might not 'gel' as well as you thought. But that might also be the case for a whole bike or it might not, as the manufacturer may have tried out the components together prior to release.


----------



## meeeeep

Are there any other disc frames out there besides the FM166? DA Di2 with disc brakes looks awesome.


----------



## Torelli4

Hello, 
Just got a price from Deng Fu for an FM029 frame/fork in 3K with clear coat. When I asked if there was price difference in a matte finish they quoted an extra $45. Does that sound right? I would've thought a matte finish would've been the cheaper of the two.


----------



## DCash

Torelli4 said:


> Hello,
> Just got a price from Deng Fu for an FM029 frame/fork in 3K with clear coat. When I asked if there was price difference in a matte finish they quoted an extra $45. Does that sound right? I would've thought a matte finish would've been the cheaper of the two.


I got the same quote for a FM058. Martina told me they were out of stock on the FM029(size 50, nonISP, BSA).


----------



## tmmartins

Torelli4 said:


> Hello,
> Just got a price from Deng Fu for an FM029 frame/fork in 3K with clear coat. When I asked if there was price difference in a matte finish they quoted an extra $45. Does that sound right? I would've thought a matte finish would've been the cheaper of the two.


Matte finish is more expensive because the standard is the raw carbon sprayed with clear coat.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

Has anyone purchased a FM-079 and build it?


----------



## stukov

Hi!
Does anyone know the ebey seller called "zgr9" ?
He has pretty good stock of road frames. Prices are good also!
May I go on with him?


----------



## FTR

Any new models out recently?
I had a quick look last night but did not really see anything.
Looking for a stiff, traditional shaped frame for Crit racing so not interested at all in the disc brake model.


----------



## persondude27

FTR said:


> Any new models out recently?
> I had a quick look last night but did not really see anything.
> Looking for a stiff, traditional shaped frame for Crit racing so not interested at all in the disc brake model.


I was wondering this the other day. I think your best bet is the FM-066 - the R3/5 style one. If you can tolerate the tall-ish head tube! 

For some reason, I think you already have one, but I raced probably 40 crits on my FM-015. Really a solid crit machine - similar to the SuperSix, but not as smooth. It's nice to know that if you go down and your frame is toast, you're only out $415. Believe it or not, I had exactly one crash on the FM015 and it broke my saddle but didn't touch anything else.


----------



## FTR

persondude27 said:


> I was wondering this the other day. I think your best bet is the FM-066 - the R3/5 style one. If you can tolerate the tall-ish head tube!
> 
> For some reason, I think you already have one, but I raced probably 40 crits on my FM-015. Really a solid crit machine - similar to the SuperSix, but not as smooth. It's nice to know that if you go down and your frame is toast, you're only out $415. Believe it or not, I had exactly one crash on the FM015 and it broke my saddle but didn't touch anything else.


Nah, I have had an FM028 and am now running a FM098.
I like the FM098 but have an idea for something different that I want to get painted up to promote my brand of cycling clothing.


----------



## Crawf

Same boat, had an 028 (ISP) now an 098, sorta miss the 028, bit more comfy and a fraction less stiff in the BB. What were your thoughts on the 2 frames?


----------



## mrcreosote

These?

YISHUNBIKE FM065 PF30 Carbon Aero Road Frameset-NEW ARRIVALS [FM065]
YISHUNBIKE FM055 BB86 Carbon Aero PRO Racing Frameset-NEW ARRIVALS [FM055]


----------



## FTR

Did not really have the 028 long enough to get any real good opinion as it got hit by a car and I wrote it off.
I do like the 098 and dont really have a bad word to say about it.
It is my sole road bike now that my Moots has been totalled following a collission with a truck a few months ago.
It is a good crit bike I think, but I am sort of keen for something more traditional looking and with some cool paint, rather than the matte black and stickers that I currently have.


----------



## FTR

Hmmm, I would not really call either of them traditional looking.


----------



## paterberg

Apart from Dengfu, are there any other vendors selling the FM058 cross frame?


----------



## mrcreosote

paterberg said:


> Apart from Dengfu, are there any other vendors selling the FM058 cross frame?


Bought mine from Yishun. They called it a CX01. CX02 is the FM059

also

FM058 New Cyclo cross frameset-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com


----------



## stangoje

Anyone have suggestions for a fairly light Groupset for around $500 for a Chinese build?


----------



## christoph1980

Hey Guys, somebody an idea where i can buy the venge replica for a good price? 

Greetings Chris


----------



## persondude27

stangoje said:


> Anyone have suggestions for a fairly light Groupset for around $500 for a Chinese build?


The cheapest way is to get lucky on Craigslist. On craigslist in my area right now, you can get a complete Ultegra 6700 kit for $550 or a 6600 group for $300. Occasionally you'll see a DA7800 (the pinnacle of human achievement) floating around for like $450.

Second easiest is to score a complete bike and rip it apart. Again, on Craigslist, I found a Performance or Nashbar aluminum frame built with Rival for $600. By the time you count wheels, tires, cassette, seatpost (if it fits), stem, and handlebars, as well as the groupset, it's not unusual to be at about 75% of the cost of your bike.

Make sure to throw together an Excel spreadsheet. List every item you need, and a reasonable (not lucky) cost on it. Have a cell that adds it all up. It's really easy to go over budget on these Chinese frames, especially because of things like shipping and Paypal fees.


----------



## imhockey

*Great stuff*



Dogdude222 said:


> Fellow cyclists-
> 
> I made a video review of my experience building up and riding one of the new disc brake bikes from HongFu. I did a similar thing for my LTK023 on MTBR, and it seems like folks found it helpful. I hope that this can help some people here be better informed as well.
> 
> Thanks!




Thanks for this...really appreciate it!


----------



## redondoaveb

Guys,

I'm looking to do a different build. I want a spare bike to play on. What I'm proposing to do is build up a carbon frame with disc brakes and doing a 1 X 10 set up with flats bars. I'd like to run 32mm road tires on it. Anybody know of a disc brake frame available that will accept 32mm tires? Cyclocross frame?


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

^^^ I am looking for a disc frame that will fit up to 28mm tyres.  hahaha ... Pure CX frames have too much gap between frame/fork to tyres ... Each his own I guess ... The current offering from Hongfu FM-079 is only good to 25mm I believe.


----------



## Tim O

*Pinarello Dogma 2 + Chinarello forks. Will they fit?*

Managed to damage the forks on my Pinarello Dogma 2. UK importers can supply replacements (at a heavy price) but are unable to colour match. My frame is 633, black/white with a small patch of metallic.

So, has anyone tried to fit Chinarello forks to a genuine Dogma 2?

Two concerns:

1) The extended fork crown that 'blends' with the frame downtube. Will the interfere with other or is the shape the same?

2)Headset bearings. The genuine Dogma does not use 'slip fit' integrated headset type bearings, but conventional ball races (61806 & 61808 from memory) which are a light press fit in the headtube. Will the Pinarello frame accept Chinarello bearings, or vice versa?


PS headset bearings are 1-1/8" and 1-1/2"

Anyone able to offer advice? Many thanks.


----------



## DudeMtn

tmmartins said:


> Marco will communicate in English. Many have used him. Even though I speak Portuguese, it is a bit broken and he had no problem with my English. His decals are the best anywhere.


X2 on Marco. I have used him 3 times and he has been fantastic to work with - period. His decals are awesome and precise as well. Cheers


----------



## ms6073

Tim O said:


> are unable to colour match.


Its a Pinarello - get the replacement fork painted by a frame painter or similar artisan local to the UK.



Tim O said:


> ...So, has anyone tried to fit Chinarello forks to a genuine Dogma 2?


Doubtful as most purchase the Chinarello because the Pinarello is cost prohibitive.



Tim O said:


> 2)Will the Pinarello frame accept Chinarello bearings, or vice versa? Anyone able to offer advice? Many thanks.


Can you get the crown race removed from the original fork? Not to sound disparaging, but because of the nature of the questions being asked, it might be best to leave this to the pro's. Now to attempt to answer the question, If you cannot get the original crown race or the original fork has an in-molded crown race, you will need a new crown race for the replacement. The fork steer tube for the replacement fork should work with the existing headset as long as the replacement is the same style of fork regardless of whether you opt for a Enve, Pinarello, Whiskey, or open-mold.


----------



## rbart4506

80mm stem? Your frame is too big....

Sorry, couldn't resist


----------



## persondude27

gandy-dancer said:


> No need to apologize. Honest. I honestly don't mind folks having a chuckle at my goofs. I'm a pretty good sport - if I must say so myself. But, I don't get the joke. Seriously.
> 
> What is it about an 80mm stem and the size of my frame that (_I concede_) might be wrong for each other? Seriously. You've lost me. Please, explain?


He's not making a joke. He's saying that if the reach on your frame is long enough that you only need a 80mm stem, you should be on a frame size smaller (or possibly two).

Without looking at your fit, I agree. Most people should be riding a 100-110mm stem. This is why most of the integrated bars don't go that short.


----------



## Vanquiz

persondude27 said:


> He's not making a joke. He's saying that if the reach on your frame is long enough that you only need a 80mm stem, you should be on a frame size smaller (or possibly two).
> 
> Without looking at your fit, I agree. Most people should be riding a 100-110mm stem. This is why most of the integrated bars don't go that short.


^ THIS ...

I only can find a frame that I really really like, and the size is a size or two bigger than my regular size, I was thinking I can get away, by lowering the seat post, and shorter stem, and slemming the stem. Is that something that can be done in general? By geometry stat, everything seems like only around 3 cm difference.


----------



## FTR

Vanquiz said:


> ^ THIS ...
> 
> I only can find a frame that I really really like, and the size is a size or two bigger than my regular size, I was thinking I can get away, by lowering the seat post, and shorter stem, and slemming the stem. Is that something that can be done in general? By geometry stat, everything seems like only around 3 cm difference.


In bike fit terms 3cm is MASSIVE.


----------



## Vanquiz

Dang, I guess I really am out of luck ... sigh 

Thank you


----------



## BikeInCanada

gandy-dancer said:


> Check me out "_gandy dancing_" on the pedals...
> 
> <embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://v5.tinypic.com/player.swf?file=11jpvk4&s=5" height="420" width="440">
> Original Video - More videos at TinyPic
> 
> My form needs work. I know. But what the hay! My motion capture vid is so neat in and of itself I couldn't resist uploading it.


Youre awfully skinny ... you need to put on some weight


----------



## oddspam

The problem, as I see it, is how Velobuild is pushing these frames. The site appear to be neutral, but they are actually censoring away most of the critical and negative comments. The result is that you cannot trust the general opinion you read there.

Also, the admin of Velobuild is selling these frames to make money, and given the censoring policy I wouldn't trust the reviews he's positing either.

That said, Zhongwei might be all OK. Who knows..


----------



## bike_paul

Quick question concerning the UD matte finish on the FM066. I received my frame today and I am a little surprised by the finish. I was aware of the fact that since the frames come straight from China with a different QC in terms of cosmetics, I didn't expect to see seems running along the top tube and very notable seams where different carbon pieces are mended together. 

Is this a typical experience? The pictures of frames I've seen only have a much a better finish.


----------



## FTR

bike_paul said:


> Quick question concerning the UD matte finish on the FM066. I received my frame today and I am a little surprised by the finish. I was aware of the fact that since the frames come straight from China with a different QC in terms of cosmetics, I didn't expect to see seems running along the top tube and very notable seams where different carbon pieces are mended together.
> 
> Is this a typical experience? The pictures of frames I've seen only have a much a better finish.


That is not a Chinese QC issue.
That is how UD looks.
My Santa Cruz Tallboy was UD and looked exactly like that. My FM056 in UD looked exactly the same.


----------



## twiggy

bike_paul said:


> Quick question concerning the UD matte finish on the FM066. I received my frame today and I am a little surprised by the finish. I was aware of the fact that since the frames come straight from China with a different QC in terms of cosmetics, I didn't expect to see seems running along the top tube and very notable seams where different carbon pieces are mended together.
> 
> Is this a typical experience? The pictures of frames I've seen only have a much a better finish.


I have a Cannondale EVO and it has the same seams in the TT....its no problem


----------



## DCash

Velobuild definitely plays favorites with certain vendors. When I was looking last year it seemed every frame was a Deng Fu FM098 or FM066. But when the buyers were having issues with Deng Fu missing shipping dates, not responding to emails, or quality control issues, the moderator seemed able to expedite resolution. 

VB and Deng Fu had a falling out, mainly due to the issues above, now Zhongwei and Honor are the teacher's pet. Everyone seems pleased with the interaction and the product.

Nicotschel and Redstarcap; please post reviews of your builds in the Chinese Carbon thread. It will be nice to see some more non-Deng Fu/Hong Fu.


----------



## itspat

I sent an email to Chris at Zhongwei inquiring about their R-016 TT Frameset which apparently also goes by Z-TT-001. He was very quick to respond in detail about the frame, options and pricing. He sent three pics of this frameset(2 painted and 1 matt carbon) along with the entire Zhongwei frame and parts catalog and price sheet. Very more detailed than Kathy at Dengfu regarding my FM098. Still waiting on some additional reviews from owners prior to purchasing on of these TT framesets.


----------



## bike_paul

Thanks for the replies guys! 

I mean I am not worried about structural integrity, the frame looks and feels solid. It's just that my frame has some very visible seems, that I didn't really see as much on pictures. Like for example this guy seems to have a much cleaner top tube: FM066 R5cn - Weight Weenies

I'll try and take some pictures for clarification when I'm home tonight.


----------



## FTR

bike_paul said:


> Thanks for the replies guys!
> 
> I mean I am not worried about structural integrity, the frame looks and feels solid. It's just that my frame has some very visible seems, that I didn't really see as much on picture, like for example this guy: FM066 R5cn - Weight Weenies
> 
> I'll try and take some pictures for clarification when I'm home tonight.


Yes, that is the way that UD is.
Sheets of CF layed over each other and looks like a patchwork.
And that picture is of UD with matte paint over the top, not raw UD.


----------



## Swen6

Has anyone tried to sell their Chinese frame? I've just brought the Cavendish Venge Frame and need to move on my RFM301 DuraAce Di2 7900 Grouped bike.


----------



## persondude27

> Fair enough. But isn't it equally fair to say that by that same logic 80mm stems "go that short" to meet the requirements (however rare the requirement may be) of those of us who don't fall into the "Most people" category? Serious question.


That's why I said, without looking at your fit. There are definitely people who have unusual fit characteristics. I like that you've spent this much time looking at your fit.

That said, remember that producing any product is about marginal cost*, and carbon has an extremely LOW marginal cost but high initial investment. A mold for a frame can cost thousands of dollars (I've been told $50,000 for a good mold, but I honestly have no idea), but then the each piece only costs the carbon, resin, and time of the worker (which is why they're made in China- workers are a whole heck of a lot cheaper and they don't have all this hard-to-follow environmental laws). Carbon itself isn't terribly expensive - but nicer carbon is definitely more spendy, as with anything.

So if I want to maximize my profit, one thing I can do is only make the most common molds - say, 100mm, 110mm, and 120mm stemmed bars. Sure, if I were to make a 90mm stem, there would be people to buy it, but maybe no as many as would buy 110. Each of "pretty small" and "very long" sizes is used by less and less people, in the standard bell distribution (although, I would imagine skewed to the right in this market), so I would have the same initial investment with a significantly reduced number of sales.

*marginal cost: in economic terms, how much does it cost to produce the next item? ie, If i want to sew something, I have to buy the fabric, the needles, the sewing machine, and then sew it all together. Then, sewing a second of the same t-shirt would be cheaper because I already have the machine and the needles, which are my initial investment. So, the cost of producing an item is spread between all the items - depending on the item, a marginal cost can be extremely low, like waffles, or extremely high, like a hand built artisan anything.


----------



## persondude27

Swen6 said:


> Has anyone tried to sell their Chinese frame? I've just brought the Cavendish Venge Frame and need to move on my RFM301 DuraAce Di2 7900 Grouped bike.


After 16,000 miles and an opportunity to move to a different bike, I sold my frame to a local buyer exceptionally easily. I guess I undervalued it, selling it as a module (frame + fork + headset + seatpost) for 70% of total cost. I had three buyers lined up in a day. I'm a size 54 and bike parks move pretty quickly in my area (Boulder, CO).

FM015 was $415, $15 headset, $40 paint, $80 shipping, $20 seatpost.


----------



## TT Max

*Mad Black MonsterRoad*

I liked My FM059 so much ,that I pulled the trigger on a FM029...this will be the new addition to the Mad Black family....this will be the Mad Black MonsterRoad version....
https://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff53/X7Bucko/001_zps5b7e7e7c.jpg
https://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff53/X7Bucko/005_zps296d6186.jpg
https://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff53/X7Bucko/0053_zpsa1a8b145.jpg
https://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff53/X7Bucko/0043_zps8059536c.jpg


----------



## beston

gandy-dancer said:


> I've spent several hours over the last several days searching - with no luck - for an Asian-sourced, mostly white, *compact*, integrated carbon fiber bar with an 80mm, +6° stem. Something similar in appearance to


I don't agree that your frame is 'way too big' for you. Maybe it's on the big side, but in no way do I think that it's wrong. Most bikes on the shop floor are set up with 90mm stems for a reason. Going down 10mm does not mean that your frame is wrong.

I'm sure that the integrated bars appeal to you, but I would suggest that you also look at other options of bar / stem options that are likely lighter and cheaper. Those integrated bars often don't make mounting computers easy either.

Uno stem (98g) for $30.
?Redbike? New Uno Ultra Light Stem 7075 Aluminum 80mm x 31 8mm 98g White | eBay

You would then have a lot more handlebar options available to choose from. With careful selection, I'm sure you could get a bar / stem combo that is about 80-100g lighter than the integrated version.


----------



## ptsbike55

TT Max said:


> I liked My FM059 so much ,that I pulled the trigger on a FM029...this will be the new addition to the Mad Black family....this will be the Mad Black MonsterRoad version....
> https://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff53/X7Bucko/001_zps5b7e7e7c.jpg


Where did you get that frame and how much? I have been looking at that one too. It really looks good.


----------



## TT Max

My first choice was Dengfu....but lately they have been totally unreliable...both their website...and contacts..
So I went to Evelen at Carbon-goods on Ebay...$550us...shipped to my door in a week and a half...I ordered a FM059 and a FM029...both I'm really happy with....Cheers


----------



## redstarcap

Got my frame from Zhongwei last weekend
Everything came as expected, just minus a seat clamp..



Basicly I order everything on the bike except groupset and wheelset




The handlebar looks and feels very good
The stem a little bit hard to install bcos the thread for the bolt isn't smooth
The saddle is nice, haven't try it for long distance yet
The bottlecage do its job

The bike came out nice
I install 105 gruppo and chinese wheelset from my old bike



The only downside is this frame supposed to be mechanical only, but I order for Di2 ready bike.
The result is those ugly holes and zhongwei didn't supply the plugs for it


----------



## Jakak

Hi all,

I have a question...
Has anybody done business with Greatkeenbikes.com lately, since I noticed that they have significantly changed their website + e-mails which are now "free account" e-mails.
I have following data of his, therefore if possible please confirm if I have the correct data?
Contact person: Jerry
paypal: [email protected]
E-mail: [email protected]

P.S. What about the quality of his products, does anybody have experiences, even second hand?
Thanks in advance!
Jakak


----------



## DamonRinard

Hi gandy,

Great question. As you can imagine, knock-offs are not a pleasant topic for me. Couple thoughts, in no particular order:

- They are not Cervelos. Not from our factory, not seconds, not made on the night sift, not "fell off a truck." They are unauthorised copies made in some other factory. 

- There is no warranty from Cervelo. Probably don't need to say this.

- We have a guy working here whose main job is shutting down the imposters. It's not easy. Sometimes it feels like playing whack-a-mole.

- I have no idea if they're safe. Or fast. Or compatible. Or anything. 

Hope that doesn't sound too negative. I'm curious what others' thoughts are too.

Cheers,


----------



## DamonRinard

Hi Gandy, 

Thanks for your frank thoughts. 

Alas, if only "*everybody* knows" were true. Why, just a few weeks ago at Eurobike I had the unpleasant experience of facing a "Cervelo" customer who I had to tell his pride and joy was 100% fake. And there was no recourse for him. Money spent, no refund, and that much farther away from being able to afford the Cervelo he thought he'd just bought. We both stood there uncomfortably. What else could either of us do? 

And on our own Cervelo forum we often get readers asking "is this fake?" Often it is. Occasionally even a genuine Cervelo is incorrectly labeled a fake. That's not right.

Therefore, the mere existence of copies raises the "buyer beware" demon for legitimate would-be Cervelo customers. I want buying a Cervelo to be filled with fun and joy, discovering the beauty of cycling we all love and want to share, enhanced, as it is, by riding a Cervelo. Knowing fakes are out there introduces a fear in the back of the buyer's mind, causing a chilling effect of uncertainty - am I getting ripped off with this one?

How negative can we get? Does Cervelo have to forever spend money stomping out fakes? So do we then spend less on R&D? After all, people buying fakes demonstrate with their money that they're willing to have *zero* R&D in their "Cervelos." Is it a race to the bottom? Is that a game that I, with my passion for helping riders save energy to ride faster (or easier), can play? Should I brush up my resume and leave the bike industry for a "real" job?

Anyway, enough of my dark personal angst. Back to our originally scheduled programming...

Cheers(?),

Damon


----------



## McGilli

At the same time people also need to understand that products that aren't made by the largest companies in the world, can also be as good or better quality than those that are mass produced by these large companies.

The product made by a smaller company can be of better quality - but the 'integrity' of the company - and thus the product is lessened by slapping on a name in hopes to fool (rip off a larger company brand), or increase sales of their product.

Basically - just always saying "that wasn't made by us (large company) so it is inferior and dangerous" is spreading fear in hopes of protecting IP.

It's one thing to go after counterfeiters, but another to slam other peoples workmanship without actually providing samples and proof to those you are spreading the word too. Too many companies get away with "that product is inferior - because we say so" and people gobble that up.

It would be nice if companies actually bought the counterfeit products, and dissected them and had photographic and video journals of said dissections available to consumers so they could see what they are being warned against.

I know some companies do this - but usually is is just exterior shots and nothing to do with the insides and structure of the product with concern to safety.

But again, slapping a brand name on a small name product is deserved of being slapped.


----------



## hotflash

redstarcap said:


> The only downside is this frame supposed to be mechanical only, but I order for Di2 ready bike.
> The result is those ugly holes and zhongwei didn't supply the plugs for it


Same on my FR-315.
Covered the holes with black nsulating tape. 
Keep up the speed, and no one will notice!


----------



## DamonRinard

McGilli said:


> At the same time people also need to understand that products that aren't made by the largest companies in the world, can also be as good or better quality than those that are mass produced by these large companies.
> 
> The product made by a smaller company can be of better quality...


Well said, McGilli. I don't know if you know this, but Cervelo Cycles Inc. is probably a smaller company than some of the giant factories selling carbon copies. Not sure if that changes what you intended to say or not...



McGilli said:


> ... - but the 'integrity' of the company - and thus the product is lessened by slapping on a name in hopes to fool (rip off a larger company brand), or increase sales of their product.


Here I'm guessing you're thinking of bigger companies than Cervelo.



McGilli said:


> Basically - just always saying "that wasn't made by us (large company) so it is inferior and dangerous" is spreading fear in hopes of protecting IP.
> 
> It's one thing to go after counterfeiters, but another to slam other peoples workmanship without actually providing samples and proof to those you are spreading the word too. Too many companies get away with "that product is inferior - because we say so" and people gobble that up.
> 
> It would be nice if companies actually bought the counterfeit products, and dissected them and had photographic and video journals of said dissections available to consumers so they could see what they are being warned against.
> 
> I know some companies do this - but usually is is just exterior shots and nothing to do with the insides and structure of the product with concern to safety.
> 
> But again, slapping a brand name on a small name product is deserved of being slapped.


Funny you mention video of dissecting copies. Just today during lunch our in-house counsel was suggesting we do this. I'm honestly not sure it would help Cervelo, since it might simply steer the conversation in a direction that's uncomfortable for many people. Or on the other hand, do you think it would help Cervelo lead the way with facts...? What do you think?

Cheers,

Damon


----------



## beston

redstarcap said:


> Got my frame from Zhongwei last weekend
> 
> 
> 
> The handlebar looks and feels very good


Can you tell me what model handlebar this is? I've looked for Zhongwei on alibaba and velobuild. I've found some of the stuff he sells, but nothing about this handlebar.


----------



## mrbubbles

cervelo should lab test their bikes against chinese oems or copies, if the similarity in performance isn't that far apart, you folks probably wouldn't post that info, really, how much better are cervelo engineers than engineers design those frame made in china (like how cervelos are made in china)? (rhetorical question)


----------



## DamonRinard

Hi beston,

Sorry, doesn't look like any handlebar I know.

Cheers,

Damon


----------



## crowaan

Who cares if these "small" Chinese companies are making a good product, they are still ripping off the "big" companies's intellectual property by copying their designs. I think companies like Cervelo don't need to spend the time and money to prove that these Chinese copies are inferior because they are illegal counterfeits. Counterfeit money is counterfeit money no matter how close to the real thing it performs.

When companies tell you that a bike is inferior because it was produced by someone else they are just trying to protect themselves. Cervelo should want to have nothing to do with these companies who are knocking them off and there for try to disassociate themselves by saying: "This is not a Cervelo, we had nothing to do with it, therefore, it is an inferior frame."

Yes it is all marketing, but it is necessary for the companies to protect their reputations and the intellectual property.


----------



## pushstart

*Chinese Carbon disc-brake road frameset roundup*

(Update: fixing content since this has been merged with the main chinese carbon thread ... )

Hi folks -

I wanted to collect links/reiews/etc. related specifically to disc-brake road bikes. I'm interested to see if people have experience with some of the open-mould framesets being offered by Chinese mfrs/distributors.

So far I have found the following options:

*Hongfu/Dengfu (Flybike) FM-166 and newer FM-079*

FM-166 - 2013 Disc brake Road Frame
FM-079 - 2014 full carbon disc brake road frame

(Note sure what the difference is between these frames, but haven't studied specs in detail.)

There is also this Youtube review about the FM166 that seems worth watching: HongFu FM166 Chinese Disc Brake Road Bike Review - YouTube

Frameset is configured for 140mm rotors front & rear. This has 410mm chainstays, which may be sufficient.

*Flyxii FLX-FR-320*

FLYXI

This appears to be the frame available from many different ebay sellers, mostly only being listed in gloss, though I know that some sizes are available in matte (why do all the listings mispell this as "matt"?).

This seems to be the cheapest option, under $500 shipped [to USA] on ebay. (I think others are closer to $620-650 after shipping/fees.)

The one thing that seems concerning about this frame is that 402mm chainstays. That seems very short for a 135mm rear-drop road bike that needs the disc-brake caliper mounted on the chainstay. I can't imagine my heel not hitting that.

*Yishun FM-145*

YISHUNBIKE FM145 BB30/BSA 700c DISC BRAKE Carbon Road Racing Frameset [YS-FM145]


So far this looks the most interesting to me, though I haven't seen any reviews of the frame. Yishun seems to have a generally good reputation, though, and I will say that so far impression working with their customer service is great ([english] language skills are excellent, which really helps).

Frameset is configured for 140mm rotors front & rear. This frame also has 410mm chainstays.

*Yoeleo YCRDF01*

Road Disc Frame - Top Quality Carbon Bike Frames For Sale Yoeleo

Just found this, and haven't really investigated.

Any frames that I'm missing? Anyone have any experience they'd like to share with any of these?

I have some PDF geometries for the FM079 and FM145 frames, but the forum is not letting me upload them (maybe too few posts?).


----------



## Tswifty

Jakak said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have a question...
> Has anybody done business with Greatkeenbikes.com lately, since I noticed that they have significantly changed their website + e-mails which are now "free account" e-mails.
> I have following data of his, therefore if possible please confirm if I have the correct data?
> Contact person: Jerry
> paypal: [email protected]
> E-mail: [email protected]
> 
> P.S. What about the quality of his products, does anybody have experiences, even second hand?
> Thanks in advance!
> Jakak


I also noticed this the other day and im also curious so i sent them an email to ask. 

Me "Hello Greatkeen
Your website has recently under gone a face lift and im still wondering if it is the same website?"
Greakeen "Dear Swifty 

yes,thanks"
And this was the little sig thing at the bottom of the email
"Thanks And Regards 
website: GreatKeen Bike Sport Equipmeng Co.,Ltd 
online store:SequelBike Sport Equipmeng Co.,Ltd 
Full Carbon Road,Time trail,MTB Frame Manufacture 
Paypal account: [email protected] "
And ive been contacting with 
"GreatKeenBike_Skald	
[email protected]"

#Themoreyouknow


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

redstarcap said:


> ... The only downside is this frame supposed to be mechanical only, but I order for Di2 ready bike. The result is those ugly holes and zhongwei didn't supply the plugs for it ...


I am sure you can buy some plugs from the hardware store. File it down, grind it or trim it to fit. Or ... Something like this might fit?

BMC Plug Di2 FD Cable TM01 & TM02 | Evans Cycles

I don't think they will keep stock of the plugs as most buyers of their Di2 ready bike will I am sure use Di2.


----------



## livefreeandride

Okay, I hate to do this but I've scoured these threads for weeks now, and don't *think* I saw an answer to this (some of the scouring was late at night with a glass of gin, though). I have a couple questions. I'm debating over a few different frames (Dengfu FM098, Hongfu FR-315, Zhongwei R-002), but here's my question:
I've got a close friend who has connections with Shimano, and I have been able to get deep discounts, and I'd like to build up the frame/fork/(maybe)seatpost with a Shimano headset, stem, bars, saddle, Ultegra mechanical group (can't *quite* afford the di2), etc. Are the headsets specific to these frames? I've seen some posts that buyers were encouraged to buy the company's headset, because it was paired to the bike frame. This is my first build, and I want to make sure I do things the right way the first time.....


----------



## mrcreosote

livefreeandride said:


> Okay, I hate to do this but I've scoured these threads for weeks now, and don't *think* I saw an answer to this (some of the scouring was late at night with a glass of gin, though). I have a couple questions. I'm debating over a few different frames (Dengfu FM098, Hongfu FR-315, Zhongwei R-002), but here's my question:
> I've got a close friend who has connections with Shimano, and I have been able to get deep discounts, and I'd like to build up the frame/fork/(maybe)seatpost with a Shimano headset, stem, bars, saddle, Ultegra mechanical group (can't *quite* afford the di2), etc. Are the headsets specific to these frames? I've seen some posts that buyers were encouraged to buy the company's headset, because it was paired to the bike frame. This is my first build, and I want to make sure I do things the right way the first time.....


Forgive my ignorance, but which Shimano headset are you looking at?

In any case, you should find the frames use one on the well-known standards for 'drop-in' headsets - i.e. Campagnolo, Cane Creek. The standards differ on the angles of the bearing faces and internal/external diameters. I think most of the Chinese frame suppliers use the Campagnolo standard, but check with the frame manufacturer for the particular spec.

And, no, that doesn't mean you need a Campagnolo headset, only one that matches that standard. For example, both FSA and Ritchey make compatible headsets for pretty much every standard out there.

see Park Tool Co. » ParkTool Blog » Headset Standards


----------



## livefreeandride

mrcreosote said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but which Shimano headset are you looking at?
> 
> This is the one I was thinking of...
> External
> 
> Thanks for the help mrcreosote!


----------



## rbart4506

The big issue will be head tube size. A number of the chinese open mold frames with 1-1/8" -> 1.5" tapered head tubes and there's limited headsets that match.

Personally I use the stock headset and bought a bunch of spares on ebay... They are dirt cheap! Not the best quality, but they do the job...


----------



## livefreeandride

Perhaps the link did not post correctly. I was looking at the Shimano PRO R-11 headset.


----------



## DCash

livefreeandride said:


> Perhaps the link did not post correctly. I was looking at the Shimano PRO R-11 headset.


As RBart said you will need a 1-1/8" to 1-1/2" tapered. 

Integrated

The $15 Neco headset from Hongfu I purchased with my frame works just as well as the Ritchey on my old bike.


----------



## livefreeandride

I'm certainly on board with the saving of money - that's why these Chinese carbon frames have caught my eye. The deals I can get on Shimano gear makes it worth snatching up as much "stuff" as I can, and I sort of liked the mental image of a stealth matte black bike built up with a Shimano group and cockpit. 
I've (albeit recently) educated myself on the function and types of headset, which, this being my first foray into building, I didn't completely understand before. I just didn't want to buy the wrong thing - and many of the frames I have been looking at did not come with the headset. Thanks for "steering" me in the right direction!
*commence jumping in*


----------



## mrcreosote

livefreeandride said:


> This is the one I was thinking of...
> External


You want this

Integrated

or this

Integrated

depending on the frame - check the specs for each frame - they will tell you if the headset taper is 1.125-1.25 or 1.125-1.5


----------



## aerodynamics

Hi all, 

I am getting ready to order a Hongfu FM039 but am confused on sizing. I am 5'9 with a 32.6"/83cm inseam and a 25"/64cm trunk. According to Competitive Cycling, I should be looking for something with a top tube between 52.8-53.2cm. In the case of the FM039, this would mean a 52cm frame which seems small. On the other hand, my body is a bit dis-proportioned - long legs, short torso. Every other online calculator says I should get a 54cm frame. I understand these are not the end-all, be-all when it comes to bike fitting but I am relying on it somewhat to get me in the ballpark of a frame I must order blindly. Any suggestions?


----------



## beston

aerodynamics said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am getting ready to order a Hongfu FM039 but am confused on sizing. I am 5'9 with a 32.6"/83cm inseam and a 25"/64cm trunk. According to Competitive Cycling, I should be looking for something with a top tube between 52.8-53.2cm. In the case of the FM039, this would mean a 52cm frame which seems small. On the other hand, my body is a bit dis-proportioned - long legs, short torso. Every other online calculator says I should get a 54cm frame. I understand these are not the end-all, be-all when it comes to bike fitting but I am relying on it somewhat to get me in the ballpark of a frame I must order blindly. Any suggestions?


There's a lot of subjectivity in calling a bike a '54' (or whatever the size is). Some bikes called '54cm' don't actually have a single tube measuring 54cm. The reality is that many manufacturers use an arbitrary sizing number that most consumer can relate to.

On a road bike, I generally ignore the size label and look at the top tube measurement to determine what bike fits best. Better yet, I like stack and reach measurements, but those aren't always listed for road bikes. 

Now that you've determined that a 52 FM039 has the right top tube measurement, take a look at other features, like head tube length and how many spacers you'll need to get your handlebar to the appropriate height. If you'll need an ungodly number of spacers, maybe the bike (as a whole) is not for you and it's time to start looking at other models that you like 'AND' will match your fit criteria.


----------



## redstarcap

beston said:


> Can you tell me what model handlebar this is? I've looked for Zhongwei on alibaba and velobuild. I've found some of the stuff he sells, but nothing about this handlebar.


The handlebar is Z-HB-008
You can contact chris or anyone from zhongwei and ask for their product catalogue
They have pdf of all their products


----------



## redstarcap

Here's my zhongwei r-002 complete bike pics


----------



## sanrensho

Has anyone heard of an outfit called Elapus (Fuzhou Elapus Trade Co., Ltd.) or D-Bike?

They have some components I want, but I've never heard of this vendor.

Thanks.


----------



## pushstart

Does anyone have any feedback on Yishun frames (not wheels)? I am looking to get the YS-FM145 (disc road frameset). Geometry-wise it looks to be very similar to the Hongfu FM166 and price is about the same too. Customer service from Yishun has been excellent, but I have had a hard time finding people talking about their frames. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Swen6

I purchased my 301 Cavendish Replica from them, frame is absolutely spot on, i've just brought a genuine Venge so i'm looking to move it on, the only thing for me that was a problem was the rear hanger, Butter has more strength.


----------



## pushstart

Thanks for review. I guess that's a mixed review? Did the hanger break off?


----------



## Tswifty

Swen6 said:


> I purchased my 301 Cavendish Replica from them, frame is absolutely spot on, i've just brought a genuine Venge so i'm looking to move it on, the only thing for me that was a problem was the rear hanger, Butter has more strength.


You might want to be a bit more specific. Such as which vendor you bought with? And other fine details like that


----------



## deepakvrao

Comments?

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bikes-frames-forks/damage-normal-type-crash-312721.html


----------



## MNX1024

Has anyone bought a FM069 yet? 

Can anyone comment on it and know the price? 

Is there a regular version and a SL version, or just one version that is super light?


----------



## ms6073

deepakvrao said:


> Comments?
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bikes-frames-forks/damage-normal-type-crash-312721.html


What do you want to hear? I have seen equally catastrophic damage to a brand name road frame after a small squirrel got caught in the front wheel!


----------



## glepore

DamonRinard said:


> Funny you mention video of dissecting copies. Just today during lunch our in-house counsel was suggesting we do this. I'm honestly not sure it would help Cervelo, since it might simply steer the conversation in a direction that's uncomfortable for many people. Or on the other hand, do you think it would help Cervelo lead the way with facts...? What do you think?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Damon


Damon, first of all, great to see you here adding to the discussion. 

First, I agree that the pure counterfeit S5's etc are a giant problem for everyone-including your purchasers; I know that there are differences that can be spotted by someone very familiar, but not all... . And there are lots of unscrupulous folks on Craigslist selling suspicious used "Cervelo S5's".

As to cutting the bikes apart, I'm not sure where that would lead. I for one would love to have someone with your background (not just at Cervelo, in cycling science generally) take apart not just the blatant copies (I think we all have real doubts about their integrity) but I would love to have someone put to rest the questions and innuendo about the bikes from the larger sellers-ie the hongfu fm066sl, which I've happily put lots of miles on. I'd suspect that its a well made frame with an unsophisticated layup, but some of us would really like to know. And yes, cutting these things apart could be uncomfortable for lots of folks-in the industry and end consumers. Could it help Cervelo? Sure, without a doubt you can establish that your layup techniques are more sophisticated. Could it hurt Cervelo? Sure, if an honest appraisal of the bikes put to rest the "unsafe" rap that gets bandied about.

My person thoughts on the matter are that the "reputable" sellers are selling decent bikes that lack very high end sophistication-for example, the fm066 uses what would appear to be an overbuilt 1 1/8 to 1 1/2 fork-stiff, safe, tracks well, but lacking in front end compliance such as you've gone to lengths to achieve in some of your recent bikes. So yeah, when I bought my $750 frame/fork/seatpost/headset I didn't and had no right to expect an R/3 at some ridiculous price; however, the differences for me are in the diminishing returns area, deeply, given my current economic circumstance.

Should Cervelo waste money playing whack a mole? Well, yeah, as to the thiefs, along with others that are doing the same (the big, evil S ). Should Damon Rinard, engineer, shed some light on the mess? Absolutely.


----------



## beston

I'll echo that comment. It's great to have someone like Damon contributing to these forums. I own a couple of Cervelo's (P4 and S2) and can't say enough about how happy I am with them. I had previously owned an FM098 and was happy too, but once I got an S2 under my butt, I was sold.

Personally, I don't think that Cervelo will benefit much from dissecting a knock off frame. Frankly, do people who buy knock-offs expect it to be as good as the real deal? Probably not. In all honesty, people will still buy the frame even if it' a little less stiff, not quite as well engineered, etc. Quite simply, those consumers are not expecting Cervelo standards to be met.

Your original assertion is what should stick: You don't know **** about these counterfeit frame and you don't care too. They're an insult to your / Cervelo's investment and R&D and need to be shut down. The counterfeit market is nothing new and not going anywhere, but that doesn't mean that you guys need to take this lying down.

btw, I live near the heart of Cervelo country and frequent your friend's cafe (cafe Domestique) regularly. He's always got great things to say about you and your approach to bike design!


----------



## vertr

I bought an FM066SL from a seller. Upon receiving the frame, I discovered that the seat stay bridge was mis-aligned. I contacted my seller, and they told me that ALL of these frames have issues like this? Take a look at the picture, should I send this thing back? Not super happy about the aesthetics of this, and I can tell from the wheel that the stays are slightly mis-aligned. 











imgur: the simple image sharer


----------



## MNX1024

vertr said:


> I bought an FM066SL from a seller. Upon receiving the frame, I discovered that the seat stay bridge was mis-aligned. I contacted my seller, and they told me that ALL of these frames have issues like this? Take a look at the picture, should I send this thing back? Not super happy about the aesthetics of this, and I can tell from the wheel that the stays are slightly mis-aligned.


Who was your seller? Mind if I ask what did the cost and weight came out to? Also, you should definitely send it back. A defective product is a defective product. The fact that they even admitted they had this problem, they should cover your shipping cost back too!


----------



## vertr

MNX1024 said:


> Who was your seller? Mind if I ask what did the cost and weight came out to? Also, you should definitely send it back. A defective product is a defective product. The fact that they even admitted they had this problem, they should cover your shipping cost back too!


Here is what the seller wrote to me: "Thanks for raising the issue. The issue is normal. All of our frames have similar rear triangle. The overall frame is fine."

For a $700 frame, I'm not super happy about this. The frame weighs 870g for a 54cm.


----------



## MNX1024

vertr said:


> Here is what the seller wrote to me: "Thanks for raising the issue. The issue is normal. All of our frames have similar rear triangle. The overall frame is fine."
> 
> For a $700 frame, I'm not super happy about this. The frame weighs 870g for a 54cm.


Did you get to weigh the fork too? $700 was for the frameset and shipping, right?


----------



## vertr

I think the fork was 370, but I'm not 100% on that. And yeah, $700 for the whole deal. I think the price has gone up though.


----------



## Tswifty

vertr said:


> I bought an FM066SL from a seller. Upon receiving the frame, I discovered that the seat stay bridge was mis-aligned. I contacted my seller, and they told me that ALL of these frames have issues like this? Take a look at the picture, should I send this thing back? Not super happy about the aesthetics of this, and I can tell from the wheel that the stays are slightly mis-aligned.


I wouldnt say its misaligned. Id say its more to do with the fact its the drive side and they over beefed or stengthened it as they would say just incase and to be honest i ride my bike looking forward not looking at my rear brake. If you can do that all the power to you but im saying your not going to see it when your riding and not when you take side on pictures of it let alone at a distance.


----------



## vertr

Tswifty said:


> I wouldnt say its misaligned. Id say its more to do with the fact its the drive side and they over beefed or stengthened it as they would say just incase and to be honest i ride my bike looking forward not looking at my rear brake. If you can do that all the power to you but im saying your not going to see it when your riding and not when you take side on pictures of it let alone at a distance.


This is a quality issue, the frame was not designed to be 'over-beefed' in this way. If I'm going to pay for a new carbon frame or anything else for that matter, it should be perfect. If you can't tell, what happened is that there is a bulge on the left side, and that caused the bridge to go right a bit. The wheel itself doesn't actually sit between the center of the seatstays.


----------



## Hjaltih

Hey guys,

I have been looking into purchasing an entire bike from Deng Fu the last couple of weeks but I am a bit worried since I have not seen anyone do this (anywhere).

Could you enlighten me on if there is any experience with ordering an entire bike from deng fu?

Do they assemble it? (Non assembled, semi assembled, completely assembled?)
How is the packaging?

If you do not recomend this at all, please let me know aswell


----------



## DCash

Tresdandre said:


> I currently don't have the time, facilities, or resources to do justice to building my own bike from the frame up. Plus I now live in Costa Rica and have somewhat complicated issues with customs and duties to do the job right. Therefore, I said to myself, why not spec the bike and look for a reputable Chinese manufacturer to build it for me. I have been doing business in China for a number of years and had discussions with many bike companies. After a long search based upon my specific needs I was most happy with Dengfu and the initial responses they provided. I need a large frame and this turned out to be the biggest obstacle in my initial discussions. The truth was that almost nobody really could provide the frame geometry I was looking for except for Dengfu and they were more than willing to work with me.
> Dengfu FM098 "Aero Road Bike"
> View attachment 284585​
> I decided early in the process that I wanted to use the Dengfu name on my bike. The bike frame, wheelset, stem, handlebars, seatpost, bottle cages, and saddle are all Dengfu carbon. The groupset is Ultegra. This picture is from Dengfu and the bike is currently in transit to me from China. I will provide a complete review of the bike after I have the chance to put it through its paces. I am particularly satisfied with the communication I had with Kathy Jin at Dengfu. She was extremely responsive. One thing I have learned in this process is that many Chinese companies are frame and component manufacturers, but they really don't know or understand much about individualizing or building a complete bike. I had very specific requests and many of the companies were just not willing or able to cooperate. Dengfu on the other hand was more than willing to try to build what I wanted. Hopefully in a week or two I will see personally just how they did.





Hjaltih said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I have been looking into purchasing an entire bike from Deng Fu the last couple of weeks but I am a bit worried since I have not seen anyone do this (anywhere).
> 
> Could you enlighten me on if there is any experience with ordering an entire bike from deng fu?
> 
> Do they assemble it? (Non assembled, semi assembled, completely assembled?)
> How is the packaging?
> 
> If you do not recomend this at all, please let me know aswell


It has been done. 

The bike, as with most mail order bikes, would come partially assembled with everything attached but the stem and handle bars removed so it will fit in the box. Derailleur and brake cables will need to be tightened and tuned before riding.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

You need to factor in the risk of getting a Chinese Open Mold frame. Price is cheaper ... Yes ... But that is factored into the high possibility of something not working right or not looking right. You might have to make some adjustment to get it to work right. Might cost you a bit more as some components might not work. If you are happy with that then go ahead. I think they work on the basis that the frame WILL work, and can get away with it, but not ALL the time with ALL components.

But you might be lucky.

I am still thinking of getting one of these frames to try out. I have been thinking about it since early 2012. Since then, I got myself a Ti frame from eBay ... from a reputable manufacturer ... built myself a set of wheels and have ridden more than 2000 miles. _So I have not been idle._ :wink: The thought is still there, but I will most probably not act on it. Tempting though it is ...


----------



## svard75

vertr said:


> I bought an FM066SL from a seller. Upon receiving the frame, I discovered that the seat stay bridge was mis-aligned. I contacted my seller, and they told me that ALL of these frames have issues like this? Take a look at the picture, should I send this thing back? Not super happy about the aesthetics of this, and I can tell from the wheel that the stays are slightly mis-aligned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> imgur: the simple image sharer


Sending it back won't solve anything especially if the seller hasn't acknowledged that this is an issue. Did you mount the wheel and brake to check? If it's aligned then you can live with it and post the name of the seller here so no one else buys from them or accept the loss and move to another frame. I'm currently going through the exact same issue with a wheel set. The rim is not even and even though there is a warranty I am not receiving any further communication from the seller. That's the thing with this risky proposition. They don't have to ever respond, change their name tomorrow and sell the same stuff again. No loyalty or honesty it's all about numbers for them. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if they actually use cardboard instead of carbon weave to save money!


----------



## BikeInCanada

svard75 said:


> Heck I wouldn't be surprised if they actually use cardboard instead of carbon weave to save money!


Yeah but ... Would it be lighter?


----------



## antihero77

Hey Guys just wondering if anyone has seen a focus izalco copy and wondering if they can paint it to match.
Thanks


----------



## antihero77

Hi one last question of all the Chinese manufactures who can do the best custom paint job?


----------



## Mr.Habanero

Its a lot of fun to paint your own frame and you dont need much to get started. Just bring your imagination and your set! 

I just bought a R-029, the Tarmac clone, from Velobuild yesterday and im pretty excited. I really REALLY wanted to a disc brake bike but l figured it would be more cost effective to wait on that. I will keep you all abreast on the situation and will post pix after its painted.


----------



## pushstart

I just pulled the trigger on the Yishun FM145 disc road frame. It has the same geometry as the Hongfu/Dengfu FM166. I don't think I will be painting it, though I do like the trendy look of the black decals on the matte frames. So maybe I will do something in that vein.

I will post observations/photos as I do the build. I imagine it will be 2014 before it is all complete.


----------



## tihsepa

antihero77 said:


> Hey Guys just wondering if anyone has seen a focus izalco copy and wondering if they can paint it to match.
> Thanks


Focus makes a bike like that. Why would you ride a counterfeit?


----------



## Mr.Habanero

Lucky you, a fm145! Thats what l was looking at building up. I look forward to seeing your rig.


----------



## pushstart

Mr.Habanero said:


> Lucky you, a fm145! Thats what l was looking at building up. I look forward to seeing your rig.


Yeah, will do! I was a little nervous since I couldn't find much reference to others buying their frames, but I suspect it should be fine. Customer service (I worked with Gavin) has been fantastic; communication has been great / excellent English language proficiency on their side which definitely adds to confidence.

I will write up more details about it once I get the frame, etc. I am building up some Light-Bicycle U45mm clinchers for the project too.


----------



## bvber

I just received VVME C02 frame. I'm guessing it's a copy of Pinarello Dogma. Will report back once I finish it in a few days.


----------



## bvber

Question, the two openings pointed out with internal cable sleeve shown, do I just use cable housing end plug there or something else?


----------



## Maglore

antihero77 said:


> Hey Guys just wondering if anyone has seen a focus izalco copy and wondering if they can paint it to match.
> Thanks


Have you no imagination???


----------



## Mr.Habanero

Dont listen to them. Do what you want to as these frames are a blank canvas for whatever you want to be on them.


----------



## antihero77

Oh sorry did I miss something here or are these Chinese bikes not counterfeits of the real thing?


----------



## antihero77

Do you really need to put in your two cents? I love the frame and want to hang it as art if you really need to know why I want to do things. Your life that uneventful that you need to know my biz?


----------



## antihero77

Would be nice to just get a clear answer as opposed to flack


----------



## BikeInCanada

antihero77 said:


> Oh sorry did I miss something here or are these Chinese bikes not counterfeits of the real thing?


As I understand it, there are pure straight counterfeits and then there are "copies."

A counterfeit is 100% exactly the same bike with a different sticker. A copy is based on one model with some slight changes. Semantics? Sure. But it is what it is. 

As for asking people why they are chiming in? It's a message board man lol.


----------



## antihero77

BikeInCanada said:


> As I understand it, there are pure straight counterfeits and then there are "copies."
> 
> A counterfeit is 100% exactly the same bike with a different sticker. A copy is based on one model with some slight changes. Semantics? Sure. But it is what it is.
> 
> As for asking people why they are chiming in? It's a message board man lol.


Yes it's a message board to add insight. Not insult.


----------



## turbogrover

antihero77 said:


> Yes it's a message board to add insight. Not insult.


It's an open forum message board to be exact. Everyone is allowed their own opinion even if it differs from yours. You have to "focus" on the input you consider useful, and ignore the rest if you choose to.
It's better than a dictator managed forum.


----------



## mrcreosote

BikeInCanada said:


> As I understand it, there are pure straight counterfeits and then there are "copies."
> 
> A counterfeit is 100% exactly the same bike with a different sticker. A copy is based on one model with some slight changes. Semantics? Sure. But it is what it is.
> 
> As for asking people why they are chiming in? It's a message board man lol.


Actually 'counterfeit' is copy with the same branding - ie representing it as the real thing. They are not allowed on RBR. 'Copy' is the same shape, but without the branding. They are allowed on RBR.


----------



## antihero77

Mr.Habanero said:


> Its a lot of fun to paint your own frame and you dont need much to get started. Just bring your imagination and your set!
> 
> I just bought a R-029, the Tarmac clone, from Velobuild yesterday and im pretty excited. I really REALLY wanted to a disc brake bike but l figured it would be more cost effective to wait on that. I will keep you all abreast on the situation and will post pix after its painted.


why is the frame so heavy at 4kg?


----------



## pushstart

antihero77 said:


> why is the frame so heavy at 4kg?


Where did you get that from? According to the velobuild page (google "R-029 velobuild" then click first result):

Frame weight :1020g size 54
Fork :420g
seat post :195g


----------



## antihero77

is the deng fu fm029 and velobuild r-029 the same bike? And does anyone own one to comment on the ride looks like a sl4 replica.


----------



## beston

No, they are different frames.

Can't comment on the ride quality, but the velobuild r-029 looks like a pretty good value against other models.


----------



## Mr.Habanero

Mine will NOT be a sl4 copy. I have a unique vision of what l want. I do like the look of the SL4 so that helps. I dont need some wispy, ultra light frame as l am a bull in a china shop


----------



## antihero77

The velo build shares the sl4 geometry. Can anyone chime in who has built either bike. Thinking of selling my sworks sl4 and buying one of these bikes. But would like to know what someone's experience with velo build or dengfu is. 
Thank you


----------



## bvber

bvber said:


> I just received VVME C02 frame. I'm guessing it's a copy of Pinarello Dogma. Will report back once I finish it in a few days.


Just finished it last night and went for a mile test ride. So far so good. Today, I took it for 20 mile ride and I like it.  I rode my aluminum bike yesterday just before transfering the parts to this frame to make it a close comparison. I even matched the tire pressure for the two rides. It's not a big difference from my aluminum frame but the smoothness is noticeable. I don't think I can ask for more from a frame at the price I paid. :thumbsup:

Picture posted here: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...bon-picture-thread-255186-40.html#post4478263


----------



## GONE4ARIDE

Can anyone comment on Hongfu's paint quality? If possible please post pictures.

Thanks!


----------



## scoopage

bvber said:


> Question, the two openings pointed out with internal cable sleeve shown, do I just use cable housing end plug there or something else?


I´ve just recieved a Zhongwei R-002 and trying to figure out whether to leave the white cable guides in after threading the gear/brake cables through. I´m guessing a regular cable housing end fits perfectly. 
Ordered Matt Back UD finish is fairly good not perfect, couple of marks here and there. It´s a finger print magnet though.
Anyone used the included headset, its a no brand, the plastic seal fit on the top isn´t the greatest


----------



## bvber

scoopage said:


> whether to leave the white cable guides in after threading the gear/brake cables through.


No. It's for pulling the cable through. Once the cable is in, take out the sleeve and save it for the future cable replacement task.


> I´m guessing a regular cable housing end fits perfectly.


It did for mine.


> Anyone used the included headset, its a no brand, the plastic seal fit on the top isn´t the greatest


Mine came with Neco brand. The fit is good so far.


----------



## scoopage

bvber said:


> No. It's for pulling the cable through. Once the cable is in, take out the sleeve and save it for the future cable replacement task.
> 
> It did for mine.
> 
> Mine came with Neco brand. The fit is good so far.


I hope I got sent the correct headset, the bottom crown race slide on without any force. I suppose I´ll have to measure it.


----------



## bvber

scoopage said:


> I hope I got sent the correct headset, the bottom crown race slide on without any force. I suppose I´ll have to measure it.


Something doesn't sound right. It shouldn't slid in like that. It should be a tight fit to a point of requiring a few taps on the sleeve with hammer.


----------



## scoopage

bvber said:


> Something doesn't sound right. It shouldn't slid in like that. It should be a tight fit to a point of requiring a few taps on the sleeve with hammer


While i think of it what are the recomended torque settings for carbon? I have read round 5-6 nm for Seat posts with Carbon Paste, what about a front derailleur clamp.


----------



## bvber

scoopage said:


> While i think of it what are the recomended torque settings for carbon? I have read round 5-6 nm for Seat posts with Carbon Paste, what about a front derailleur clamp.


Those are per what the manufacturer recommends. For Shimano example ->http://www.shimano.com/publish/cont...s-0029-downloadFile.html/02) Torque Specs.pdf


----------



## teslaosiris

I'm torn now... There are several ideas/wants for a frame when I finally go carbon next year. 

Anyways, what do you all do for painting these frames? I have a couple ideas for paint schemes, but I wouldn't have a clue about actually doing it myself.


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

pushstart said:


> I just pulled the trigger on the Yishun FM145 disc road frame. It has the same geometry as the Hongfu/Dengfu FM166. ...





Mr.Habanero said:


> Lucky you, a fm145! Thats what l was looking at building up. I look forward to seeing your rig.




This has defintely caught my interest ... _dangerous_ ... 

PS: When are you expecting receipt of the frame? I am looking forward to your build ... :wink:

I had a look at the schematic drawing of the frame, sent by one of their sales staff and realised that the rear dropout was listed as 130mm. Queried and immediately there was a reply to confirm that it should be 135mm instead?

Have read reviews of other disc specific road frames, not from Yishun, which ended up with a 130mm rear dropout and having alignment issues with the disc tabs on the frame. So definitely keeping an eye out on your frame. _Unsure if the alignment issues were due to using a 135mm hub in a 130mm dropout ..._


----------



## pushstart

Yeah, you are right. The schematics show 130. To be honest I did not notice! The website lists it as 135mm, and since that seems to be the standard I did not think to check. Yikes, I hope that is wrong. I also emailed Gavin to confirm rear spacing. I will measure it when I receive the frame.

I think I am about a week out before it ships by their original estimate. They didn't have 60cm in stock, so they had to have it built. I can't afford all the parts just yet, so the build will be a little slow. (Building LB 45mm wheels too.). I imagine it will be Jan or Feb before I am done, but I intend to provide some feedback/photos on frame before then.


----------



## CabDoctor

The r-029 isn't available anywhere in a size smaller than 52cm, right?


----------



## svard75

teslaosiris said:


> I'm torn now... There are several ideas/wants for a frame when I finally go carbon next year.
> 
> Anyways, what do you all do for painting these frames? I have a couple ideas for paint schemes, but I wouldn't have a clue about actually doing it myself.


Contact the seller and ask if they do custom paint work. Then ask for a template and mock it up. They should be able to put it through cad and send you an approval image and perform the paint scheme.


----------



## FTR

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


>


Is this available without the pointless disc brake mounts?


----------



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n

FTR said:


> Is this available without the pointless disc brake mounts?


Hahaha ... I am sure they have a model with caliper mounts or something similar. And 130mm in the rear of course.

_How dare they make road frames with 135mm dropout spacing ... !!!_ :wink:


----------



## FTR

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Hahaha ... I am sure they have a model with caliper mounts or something similar. And 130mm in the rear of course.
> 
> _How dare they make road frames with 135mm dropout spacing ... !!!_ :wink:


No, they can make it.
Plenty of people who will buy marketing hype.


----------



## pushstart

FTR said:


> No, they can make it.
> Plenty of people who will buy marketing hype.


I think you are looking for a different thread. If you have something to contribute to Chinese carbon frame discussion, I am sure we would love to hear it.


----------



## FTR

pushstart said:


> I think you are looking for a different thread. If you have something to contribute to Chinese carbon frame discussion, I am sure we would love to hear it.



Oh sorry.
Maybe I should have posted an inane question that had already been asked a million times before about some extremely simple facet of building a bike??

I originally asked if that model was available without the disc tabs.
Chinaman and I had a joke about it and then you came in and made your rude comment.

Perhaps you should ignore my post unless you can actually answer my question.


----------



## pushstart

FTR said:


> Oh sorry.
> Maybe I should have posted an inane question that had already been asked a million times before about some extremely simple facet of building a bike??
> 
> I originally asked if that model was available without the disc tabs.
> Chinaman and I had a joke about it and then you came in and made your rude comment.
> 
> Perhaps you should ignore my post unless you can actually answer my question.


Sorry for the misunderstanding. I assumed you were just looking to start some pointless debate on the value of disc brakes. Perhaps it would suit you to ask your questions with less a less snide tone in the future.

As for the answer to your question, it is "no, not exactly". Could you really not be bothered to visit http://yishunbike.com and take a cursory glance at the *five* road frames they offer ... ?


----------



## byhsu

dr.baig said:


> ill give an example.
> 
> they are doing the pinarello replica frame vbr something. frame and fork for 425, plus postage 80, plus seatpost 25, plus headset 15, plus hangers 8.
> 
> So in essence the total cost comes to about 560-70, when you can source the frame with all the above yourself for 490$.


Hi, I am interested in getting an FM015 frame, who can i talk to to get it direct and a good price. 

Thanks


----------



## joeturner

Just thought I'd share my HongFu saga with anyone thinking of buying an open mold frame. Although most people seem really happy with their purchases, there's another side that needs to be considered before you plunge:
If you're considering buying a Chinese carbon bike...: Triathlon Forum: Slowtwitch Forums


----------



## Swen6

beston said:


> Can you tell me what model handlebar this is? I've looked for Zhongwei on alibaba and velobuild. I've found some of the stuff he sells, but nothing about this handlebar.


Beston incase you haven't found them yet, they're a copy of Zipps VukaSprint bars, plenty on AliExpress.


----------



## Swen6

Tswifty said:


> You might want to be a bit more specific. Such as which vendor you bought with? And other fine details like that


Sorry peeps, thought posted with 'quote'

The Cavendish Rep was from Greatkeen, I'd recommend buying a genuine hanger, I requested another and it was just as bad, it bent under minimal strain, and to finish the ride home was horrendous.

Thanks.

oh and I threw it down the road, non-drive side down, at about 20mph, frame was fine, my arse not so


----------



## Juke6961

byhsu said:


> Hi, I am interested in getting an FM015 frame, who can i talk to to get it direct and a good price.
> 
> Thanks


Hi, I got the FM015 from Hongfu and have to say it all went seamlessly, I got the farm, forks, wheels, headset, seat post clamps, couple of rear hangers and a pair of 50mm wheels all matt black.. I chose the FM015 over some of the more modern type frames as it was well established and all the faults were ironed out, we are seeing some issues with newer frames. I also like the old school styling with a bit of modern thrown in like the enclosed top tube rear brake cable but leaving the gear cables exposed, all in all after approx 1000 miles all has gone well, rides like a dream

<object type="cosymantecnisbfw" cotype="cs" id="SILOBFWOBJECTID" style="width: 0px; height: 0px; display: block;"></object>


----------



## Mr.Habanero

Thats really too bad Joe. For every few good stories there is a bad one. I, for the most part have had some good luck except my fm098. I got it on the Velobuilds first group buy for that frame. Anyway, the seat tube was too large for the seat post. Then they sent me a newer updated post and it helped some but never really solved the issue even with shims. 
I just bought a r029 and its a newer frame so hopefully there wont be any new model issues.


----------



## DCash

byhsu said:


> Hi, I am interested in getting an FM015 frame, who can i talk to to get it direct and a good price.
> 
> Thanks


new Road Frame+Fork+Seat post

I have 3k miles on mine this year including several races. Love that bike!


----------



## byhsu

DCash said:


> new Road Frame+Fork+Seat post
> 
> I have 3k miles on mine this year including several races. Love that bike!


Thank You, but the link is not working for me.

What is the best price you can get it shipped to the USA?


----------



## DCash

byhsu said:


> Thank You, but the link is not working for me.
> 
> What is the best price you can get it shipped to the USA?


bike MALL

AliExpress.com - Online Shopping for Electronics, Fashion, Home & Garden, Toys & Sports, Automobiles from China.


Prices range from $380-500 depending on frame style, bottom bracket, and finish/paint. It is better to contact the vendor directly(email on their website) to get a direct quote for what you want. US shipping is $80ish.


----------



## byhsu

DCash said:


> bike MALL
> 
> AliExpress.com - Online Shopping for Electronics, Fashion, Home & Garden, Toys & Sports, Automobiles from China.
> 
> 
> Prices range from $380-500 depending on frame style, bottom bracket, and finish/paint. It is better to contact the vendor directly(email on their website) to get a direct quote for what you want. US shipping is $80ish.


Thank you so much.


----------



## larsif

*FR322 Build Pics Request*

Has anyone built up a bike using the FR322 frame (size 54 cm preferred)? It is offered by a_baygoods on ebay. If so please post complete bike pics. Thank you.


----------



## BikeInCanada

For those of you who have completed builds ... How on earth did you come up with a paint scheme? I mean ... Excluding those who didn't go with all black. How did you decide on colors and designs?

Im so lost. I have a billion ideas but can't seem to get them out. It's so frustrating. It also doesn't help that I'm borderline retarded when it comes to anything artistic. Oops. 

Anywho ... Just curious.


----------



## Mr.Habanero

@BikeinCanada. Are you thinking about a diy yourself project or the company painting it? I know personally I do the painting myself.
For ideas go to DengFus website and look up what they have for designs. They have a crap ton prepainted frames and it helped me a lot for ideas what can be done. Since I am a big Tranceformer fan I usually use the color schemes of certian Transformers for ideas. I have a R-029 coming in the mail (hopefully soon!!!!) and I am going to use the Decepticon Thundercracker as inspiration for design and colors, with the blues, red and white. I found that its really important to keep things simple. Unless your a super artist, keeping it simple will produce a much better product. Good luck!


----------



## BikeInCanada

Hey Habanero,

Thanks for the response 

I'm not sure I have the ability to do a DIY paint job. I certainly don't have the equipment or facilities (apartment life ... Booo). I'm not terribly artistic which, I believe, is part of the problem 

I loooove the transformers idea. I too a big fan. 

I had one idea for a paint scheme. It was sort of a copy of a frame in velobuild. I sent zhongwei a copy of the photo and they said they couldn't do it. It was three colors (black frame with grey and white "separating" stripes. He said they stripes were too small. So it seems that they don't do precision work and only general sort of painting. Which is totally fine. Just makes it harder for me is all. 

I do agree with simple. I'm certainly not looking for something ultra fancy. Just something unique-ish with my own touch on


----------



## ptsbike55

.....


----------



## ptsbike55

This is the paint I did on mine. I drew it up in a simple paint program and had a auto paint shop put the colors I wanted into spray cans. It took a while to get all the layers taped. After all was done, I clear coated it.


----------



## ptsbike55

.....


----------



## amedal

hey all...

Im moving overseas and have to put the sport on hold. Im selling my FM018 TT build but not too sure where to put details, price and stuff. Is there a specific section for "Chinese Builds Classifieds"? Or just the regular Classifieds section?

Thanks for the help!
A
[URL="[/URL]


----------



## Mr.Habanero

Pts... Those pix look great! Autopaint works wonderfully but toxic as f***. I love the thousands and thousands of colors. I use to have autopaint guns and supplied air resperators but sold them years ago. Automotivetouchup.com has a crap ton of stuff at okay prices and the quality is good. Anymore l use them for aerosol paint.


----------



## horvatht

Looking for a super light carbon frame size 54. 

Some where around 800 grams or lower, frame weight.


----------



## Maglore

Only one that gets anywhere near that is the FM066SL. But you'd be looking at 850g if you're lucky.


----------



## NYC_CAAD

Wow! I can't wait to start my build on a R-029, from Velobuild. Any ideas if they have the R-029,from Velobuild in DISC ready?


----------



## berndrea

I miss my old HongFu
View attachment 288298


----------



## horvatht

Maglore said:


> Only one that gets anywhere near that is the FM066SL. But you'd be looking at 850g if you're lucky.


Thanks Maglore I thought there might be a lot more choices. 
I have found this frame it looks light and has a lot of comments. 
http://www.yoeleobike.com/carbon-bike-frames-road-racing-super-llight.html


----------



## GONE4ARIDE

horvatht said:


> Thanks Maglore I thought there might be a lot more choices.
> I have found this frame it looks light and has a lot of comments.
> Carbon Bike Frames - Super Light Road Racing Carbon Bike Frames Yoeleo


The yoeleobike model you linked to looks like it's a FM-066 / FM-066SL. You might also want to check out the new Hongfu HF-FM069 as another light weight option.


----------



## GiantTCR

GreatKeens latest iteration of the S5

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pq36g5hv891isbb/heNmADw053


----------



## NYC_CAAD

Hey GiantTCR! How great are GreatKeens frames and safety? 

Thanks



GiantTCR said:


> GreatKeens latest iteration of the S5
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pq36g5hv891isbb/heNmADw053


----------



## GiantTCR

I have the older version of the frame in question and it rides just fine, no real issues. Looking forward to the new version.


----------



## Phearson

With what address did u get in contact with them at zhongwei?? And what is the best site to go through? I found them off velobuild, but is it better to get in touch with them directly? Do they have a direct address?


----------



## DaveG

After reading this thread I have to ask: What is the big attraction about buying frames direct from China? Is the cost savings that phenomenal? Seems like you give up a lot (fit, shopping in person, warranty, unknown quality) to save a few bucks


----------



## TT Max

I've been with Velobuild a little over a year now....had My problems with Killerbee too...deleting posts...montoring was is said about certain venders.....I've bought everything outside of Velobuild....I don't see any savings...plus the guys a prick and has pissed off a lot of venders and buyers


----------



## syraleo

NYC_CAAD said:


> Hey GiantTCR! How great are GreatKeens frames and safety?
> 
> Thanks


I have the RFM301 since July, fork has a small area that's just epoxy instead of carbon fibre, you can see it's a void there but its full of epoxy.

but its been riding fine, been through bunny hops, huge pot holes at speed, all that with a rider weighing 210lbs.

loving the frame, and because it's so cheap, i'm actually thinking of building another purely for riding to work so i dont have to keep cleaning it. just ride to workand back then dump it aside and not care about it til the next day.


----------



## EvanAlmighty

DaveG, my buddy just received his plain carbon dogma think 2 frame that he purchased through Alibaba. We put the Chinese frame right next to his real one and we couldn't tell the difference. He paid close to $700 for the Chinese frame after shipping and import duty. On the other hand he paid somewhere around $4K-5K for the actual Dogma frame.


----------



## DCash

EvanAlmighty said:


> DaveG, my buddy just received his plain carbon dogma think 2 frame that he purchased through Alibaba. We put the Chinese frame right next to his real one and we couldn't tell the difference. He paid close to $700 for the Chinese frame after shipping and import duty. On the other hand he paid somewhere around $4K-5K for the actual Dogma frame.


Can you give some ride comparisons when it is built up. Is the original better? Is it $3K+ better? It's easy to make a visual copy without any performance. 

I have a FM015 size 58. 16 pounds with Sram Rival. Total build $1600. I will never buy a new bike from a bike shop.


----------



## svard75

EvanAlmighty said:


> DaveG, my buddy just received his plain carbon dogma think 2 frame that he purchased through Alibaba. We put the Chinese frame right next to his real one and we couldn't tell the difference. He paid close to $700 for the Chinese frame after shipping and import duty. On the other hand he paid somewhere around $4K-5K for the actual Dogma frame.


That's like comparing a real apple and fake plastic apple. Sure they look the same but do they feel the same. I'm not dissing the fake dogma frame. It probably rides nice and is functional for the regular joe but if you were a pro racer and you really need that last ounce of technology and layup patterns to make the frame perform perfect, trust me you would know. 

This whole thing aside I think that there is nothing wrong with copying as long as they are sold as fake/generic. 

As I said before I curse all the people that attempt to sell fakes as real so that your penis falls off.


----------



## DaveG

Evan, I am personally leery about buying no name stuff from China. This is a country that brought us tainted baby formula, toothpaste with anti-freeze, lead-painted toys, and most recently poisonous dog treats. I don't think it too hard to imagine them skimpy on quality control and safety


----------



## spdntrxi

DaveG said:


> Evan, I am personally leery about buying no name stuff from China. This is a country that brought us tainted baby formula, toothpaste with anti-freeze, lead-painted toys, and most recently poisonous dog treats. I don't think it too hard to imagine them skimpy on quality control and safety


without a doubt 100% true..


----------



## bvber

There is a risk. It's the risk some people are willing to take for low cost frame. What I've seen so far, there have been more positive turn out than negative.


----------



## FTR

I think I have far more to fear from the US than from the Chinese.
No need for "tainted baby formula, toothpaste with anti-freeze, lead-painted toys, and most recently poisonous dog treats" when you have and armed and dangerous public.


----------



## DaveG

FTR, I don't understand your post. I am talking about the quality of goods coming out of China. Yours seems to have some sort of political content. I think the lack of quality of Chinese goods is pretty well established. While US goods are not immune to quality issues the blatant disregard of safety cited in my examples generally does not happen is in US


----------



## FTR

DaveG said:


> FTR, I don't understand your post. I am talking about the quality of goods coming out of China. Yours seems to have some sort of political content. I think the lack of quality of Chinese goods is pretty well established. While US goods are not immune to quality issues the blatant disregard of safety cited in my examples generally does not happen is in US


Cough....BS....Cough.
You need to leave the comfort of your tiny part of our world and have a look around.
You seem to be one of those Americans that think that the US is the biggest and the best of everything and that the rest of the world should strive to achieve the US's "lofty standards".
The rest of the world does not hold your views sorry.


----------



## DaveG

This isn't a US vs. the world issue. The original issue was the comparative quality of Chinese goods. Consider this: If you were to display several bike frames at a shop that are identical and they had differing source stickers that said "Made in China", "Made in Italy", "Made in US", "Made in Taiwan", etc. Assuming they were the same price do you think the Chinese frame would outsell those from the other sources?. I highly doubt it


----------



## roadtv

brew said:


> Hey first post here. I have sifted through the billions of posts on these forums but maybe missed what I was looking for. I am about to pull the trigger on an FM098 but am having trouble choosing the right size.<img src="http://goo.gl/lh8uQf" /> From what I can gather on the Deng Fu website it appears that what they call a 58cm frame is actually what most of us would consider a 55cm frame (center of bottom bracket to top of seat post insert). Is this correct does anyone have experience with sizing on the fm098? If I typically ride a 56 should I consider the 58cm fm098? How does the unique geometry of the fm098 play into things? Sorry for the rudimentary questions. Any help would be appreciated.


Forget the vertical size. Buy your bike based on the horizontal distance of the top tube. If you don't know what size you are this way, it is a very good idea to find out. But yes based on my understanding, the 56cm should be considered a 58cm. I have heard most people have had good experiences with Deng Fu but one not so much. He reported he was a little slow on the warranty issues. I think the internal cable slots weren't working and he had to do it externally instead. Haven't heard any other issues though. Should be a nice fast bike. Almost identical to the Specialized Venge.


----------



## FTR

DaveG said:


> This isn't a US vs. the world issue. The original issue was the comparative quality of Chinese goods. Consider this: If you were to display several bike frames at a shop that are identical and they had differing source stickers that said "Made in China", "Made in Italy", "Made in US", "Made in Taiwan", etc. Assuming they were the same price do you think the Chinese frame would outsell those from the other sources?. I highly doubt it


You need to go into a high end LBS and turn some bikes over.
China is the number 1 manufacturer of high end carbon fibre items in the world and manufactures these either to the specification of high end brands or as open mould frames that those manufacturers purchase and re-brand as their own.
Outside of Taiwan most of the manufacture for high end brands around the world is from China.

I will wait for you to list more than a handfull of well known US made bicycles that are made of carbon fibre.


----------



## danny87

Completely naive if you think China is not capable of producing global market products. It does. For lots & lots of companies. For all sorts of different products not just cycling related obviously. Give them some credit. I gather some people do not know past the end of their nose. But newsflash to some of you Americans. Your country is just over a couple of hundred years old and one of the last to abbolish slavery which was abbolished by most of the world along time before you caught up. Then there is China is one of the original ancient civilisations. Around 5000 years old, one of the founding civilisations of humanity. They've got a bit on you in that department and let's face it a lot more in most other departments on the rest of us. Bicycle parts. Small small potatoes. I think they can handle making mobile phones for Apple and laying up carbon fibre.


----------



## DaveG

No argument that China makes lots of stuff including frames for many OEMs. However, this thread is not about buying frames from a major OEM, it's about trying to buy ultra-cheap frames direct from manufacturers. I was pointing out that China has a troubled history when it comes to trading off safety and quality for profit. The question is do these frames have the same quality controls and safety checks that frames going to OEMs have? Perhaps some of these frames failed the very checks that the OEMs put in place to ensure quality. The things I cited (poison baby formula, toxic dog treats, etc) are real and recent events and seem to point to a certain business culture. Danny, I am not sure what the abolishment of slavery has to do with any of this (I was not born then) although since you brought it up Chinese manufacturing has a horrible track record with regard to working conditions and pay. You certainly may choose to buy whatever frame you like. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this since I doubt either of us plans to change ours minds.


----------



## FTR

DaveG said:


> No argument that China makes lots of stuff including frames for many OEMs. However, this thread is not about buying frames from a major OEM, it's about trying to buy ultra-cheap frames direct from manufacturers. I was pointing out that China has a troubled history when it comes to trading off safety and quality for profit. The question is do these frames have the same quality controls and safety checks that frames going to OEMs have? Perhaps some of these frames failed the very checks that the OEMs put in place to ensure quality. The things I cited (poison baby formula, toxic dog treats, etc) are real and recent events and seem to point to a certain business culture. Danny, I am not sure what the abolishment of slavery has to do with any of this (I was not born then) although since you brought it up Chinese manufacturing has a horrible track record with regard to working conditions and pay. You certainly may choose to buy whatever frame you like. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this since I doubt either of us plans to change ours minds.


Thanks Dad, now go and find another thread to derail.


----------



## DanBell78

DaveG said:


> Perhaps some of these frames failed the very checks that the OEMs put in place to ensure quality.


Perhaps they pass even higher standards of testing? Perhaps I checked them all myself? Also, perhaps I am, in fact, Charles Bronson. See? We can all make things up. It's fun for the whole family!

Go back and read through the hundreds of pages of these threads. You'll find a few people that had issues with their frames. Some of the warranty claims were handled to the satisfaction of the owner, and some of them weren't (like most any bike brand). You will find many, many more fully satisfied owners who have ridden their bikes over thousands and thousands of miles without issue. If there were a huge quality control issue, word would get out and people wouldn't buy these frames (which in turn would cause the manufacturers to step up their production and QC game or get out of the business).

The people who have bought these frames have looked at the risks and rewards and decided that they feel confident enough to buy one. You obviously fall on the other side of that line. That's fine. Everyone makes their own decisions. Neither side is wrong on a personal choice like that.

Finally, stop equating China and Taiwan (where the vast majority of frames listed in these threads come from). Taiwan's economy and business environment are totally different. Taiwan has higher QC standards, better working conditions, higher pay, and better training for workers.


----------



## FTR

DanBell78 said:


> Finally, stop equating China and Taiwan (where the vast majority of frames listed in these threads come from). Taiwan's economy and business environment are totally different. Taiwan has higher QC standards, better working conditions, higher pay, and better training for workers.


But not for long.


----------



## Mr.Habanero

Can we talk about bikes now, lol

Im really hoping my R-029 comes in the mail soon. They said on Friday (whatever time that would be in china time) that they think it might be shipped Next Monday. I wonder if that means today or next Monday. Im pretty stoked no matter what what.
Has anyone delt with BBB cable housings? They have a chrome housing that looks pretty cool and will work great with my colors lm going to use. They're cheap so l dont expect Dura Ace performance.


----------



## Ricey155

mad black looks ace nice build


----------



## TT Max

Thanks Brother!


----------



## Ahanix

So maybe someone can help either knock some sense into me, or convince me to pull the trigger. 

I currently have a 2007 Tarmac Expert with FSA Carbon Crank, Ultegra/DA setup and some ALX wheels I am planning on upgrading here in the next few months (They weigh around 1900g) placing the bike at 18.5lbs right now. Nothing obviously to complain about.

First and foremost, even with Ultegra/DA I still miss SRAM (I had APEX on my last bike) and I just miss the fit and function of their shifters. 

I absolutely love the frame, but am craving having BB30 back and possibly doing some upgrades. Should I part out the bike and build up a Zhongwei R-002 (Frames are on-sale right now) in 12k with some custom sticker work done, and piece together a new SRAM groupset. or am I not going to see a huge difference between my 2007 Specialized Carbon frame over the frame I am looking at? Should I just upgrade the wheels and group and sit on the frame I have?

Thanks for your opinion.


----------



## FTR

Anyone happen to have any good pictures of along the top tube of the FM066?
Trying to see whether it is flat like the Ritte's.


----------



## ptsbike55

Ahanix said:


> So maybe someone can help either knock some sense into Should I just upgrade the wheels and group and sit on the frame I have?
> 
> Thanks for your opinion.


Go for the wheels first. The R-002 is a heavy frame, so no weight reduction there. A light set of wheels could take a pound off your bike though.


----------



## BikeInCanada

ptsbike55 said:


> Go for the wheels first. The R-002 is a heavy frame, so no weight reduction there. A light set of wheels could take a pound off your bike though.


Agreed. If you already have a really good frame, getting another frame is a waste of money

Work with what you got and replace what you think is best 

Also. Good choice. I'm gonna build up an r-002


----------



## DCash

FTR said:


> Anyone happen to have any good pictures of along the top tube of the FM066?
> Trying to see whether it is flat like the Ritte's.


According to geometry charts the top and bottom are both flat with rounded sides. This frame very similar to the Cervelo R series.


----------



## Ahanix

BikeInCanada said:


> Agreed. If you already have a really good frame, getting another frame is a waste of money
> 
> Work with what you got and replace what you think is best
> 
> Also. Good choice. I'm gonna build up an r-002



Looking at the difference between my Tarmac frame and an R-002 ill shave about 200 grams. Figured based on Ebay sales I can get maybe 6-700 out of my frame (bought it from some guy and it's seen about 100 miles), and then i'll just roll that into Di2. then sell my ultegra/DA group for some carbon wheels and hold on to the saddle I already have.


----------



## nielsopweg

Does someone have more info about the *V3-Z-CB-R-029 of Zhongwei?
*Is this one a Specialized knock off? LIke the SL4?

http://velobuildmall.com/index.php?option=com_ixxocart&Itemid=435&p=product&id=50&parent=3&vendorid=3

Can't find more info or build pictures


----------



## manmachine

Preface:
It's hard for the Statist to accept change. When the 'popular' 'cool' or 'spoon-fed' media opinion isn't available in their repertoire or 'talking' points' it usually ends being an exercise in futility...but worry not roadies, because _Choice_ is after all, the Crux of Freedom (at least while we still have it)


I pulled the trigger and purchased a Zhongwei R-002 frame/fork/headset, bars, spacers from VeloBuild. $440 (w/s-h)

CF 23mm/38mm 1490g Wheels are coming from Ekay Composites from the Xiamen region. $445 (w/s-h)

Then I sourced *all* Ultegra 6700 gear, CF post, stem, BG saddle and CF cages from ebay & Amazon (new or new take-offs) All in, the total stands at $1,683 (and I will probably buy new tires in the spring - another $40-$50)

I decided to go ahead and purchase a bike from one of the Chinese Manufacturers/Sellers directly, instead of buying a brand-name bike at a shop or online. This after 18 months of research and weighing the pros and cons. The pros won out. One of the best parts is, I get to assemble it and see it take shape from parts and pieces to a complete rig. This is going to be my winter project.

So, the alarmists and town-criers touting frames exploding and cracking in half, etc is a bit over-done...and sure there have been a few failures here and there- just as the big brands have had happen as well. And the few I have read about, have had their frames replaced by the Chinese sellers/reps. 

(-"it seems, the death of my china-made carbon fiber frame...has been greatly exaggerated...") :wink:


----------



## BikeInCanada

While I am definitely on the Chinese market stuff and while I agree with you, your post comes off as incredibly antagonizing, condescending, and confrontational. 

Try proving your point with a bit less vitriol. It'll come across a bit better.


----------



## manmachine

I can appreciate your concern, but the very idea of challenging the Statist-
...is to be Confrontational. I also disagree a bit with your belief that my words 
are bitter and cruel- harsh, yes. Matter of fact, sure. Blunt, no doubt.

That said, I make zero apologies. -'live by your words, die them too.' Absolutely.


----------



## pmarshall

I used Dengfu and had a great experience buying a FM098 frame. I sent them money via paypal on October 17th and received my frame on Nov 6. I emailed them a few times and asked for clarification on a few issues. The person I emailed with was Kathy Jin. I would get emails during the later part of the day due to the time difference I bet. The frame was exactly as I ordered after sending them a pic from their website. She then sent me a few more pics of a better quality and I got the paypal address and sent the money. It ended up being about $620 with painting, shipping and paypal fees. I figured the weight on their website was going to be off and it was by quite a bit. They claim 1050 grams for frame and fork. The frame alone in a 54cm size came to be 1240 grams. the fork was 360 grams. I wasn't too worried about it since I was suspicious of the claim anyway. So the quality is good. The internal cable routing is great and it has guides so it is easy to put cables on. The rear D cable routing has a little bit of a sticking point but not too bad. I think it might get better with increased use. Make sure you get their headset or take your frame to a shop and have them put one together for you. My shop had to scavenge some headset parts to make it work since the clearances were pretty tight. I am very impressed with the paint! I got matte black with glossy orange and it looks great. I just need to get some 50cm carbon wheels now to complete it. With Sram Force shifters and brakes, Sram Red 53/39 crank and Easton SLX90 wheels, it weighs 15lbs 10oz. I have a Chinese Zipp knockoff bar on it too. First ride impression is this thing is great. Feels like a Venge in stiffness and goes like one too. It is quiet and stiff!!! The only noise I hear is the front D cable chatters a bit in the internal housing when it is in the small ring due to the lack of tension. This is just a little tiny bit of noise. Not really a complaint, just observation. I also love the geometry of the frame. It seems to really dive into turn and hold a line well. Much better than my old Kestrel Evoke road bike. One other thing, I opted for the ISP (Integrated Seat Mast) and had to cut about 2" off of it to fit. Maybe like many of you, I was hesitant to give them my money and expect a "decent" frame. I am glad I did because I would have had to shell out $1k more for a similar type frame from a USA company.


----------



## Mr.Habanero

Looks great!


----------



## manmachine

Nice build!


----------



## BikeInCanada

Woot. Just ordered my R-002 this morning. 

When I get a pic or two back of the completed paint job, I'll post 'em up. 

Thanks to everyone's suggestions and help and all that. You guys rock!


----------



## 00Garza

Hey all, I'm fairly new around here as I thought the direct from China route might be looked down upon on this forum. Through Velobuild I got in contact with Chris from ZhongWei and bought a R-002 as my first upgrade after riding an entry level Sora equipped 25lb bike for a year and a half. 

My purchase experience was great and I'm loving the frame! 

Overall, I'm completely satisfied with my direct from china experience and would gladly do it again. Here's a pretty bad pic of my bike. Only one I got right now.
https://i.imgur.com/gCdBt4J.jpg

...I think I recognize some of my fellow velobuilders here :thumbsup:


----------



## BikeInCanada

Nice! I can't wait to get mine. 

Chris is indeed the man. Super nice guy, fast and responsive. Also ... He was way patient with me whilst we want back and forth with indecision on paint colors. Good guy!


----------



## ems200

Has anyone ordered anything from AliExpress "Miracle Carbon Tech" lately? I send a inquire regarding a CycloCross Frame. Received a responds a day later. Everything looked good, so I reply asking for a Paypal invoice. Nothing. Sent another request.. nothing. Want to buy but don't get any response. John


----------



## RaptorTC

How's the tire clearance on the FM098? I'd assume they're capable of taking a 25? I'm planning on running Pro 4's in a 25 (which by nature run a little wide) on a set of wide rims so I guess they might be closer to a 28?


----------



## BikeInCanada

I have heard of a couple of people having trouble with that particular company. But I have no experience with them myself.


----------



## f3rg

DaveG said:


> No argument that China makes lots of stuff including frames for many OEMs. However, this thread is not about buying frames from a major OEM, it's about trying to buy ultra-cheap frames direct from manufacturers. I was pointing out that China has a troubled history when it comes to trading off safety and quality for profit. The question is do these frames have the same quality controls and safety checks that frames going to OEMs have? Perhaps some of these frames failed the very checks that the OEMs put in place to ensure quality.


My FM015-ISP has well over 13,000 miles on it, so it definitely failed its quality control check somewhere along the way.


----------



## Ahanix

I apologize if this has been covered. But I have scoured the internet over and over trying to find an answer. I just purchased a Chinese frame using OSBB and just ordered a dura ace 9000 gruppo. I can't figure out what bottom bracket I need to get. Will the wheels mfg pf30 with hollowtech Adapters work?


Edit - I feel I found the exact thing I was looking for, sad it was so hard to find. For others here's what I found

http://praxiscycles.com/pdf/conv_kit_osbb.pdf

Praxis sells a conversion BB that takes OSBB and places a secure and higher quality BB, seems decently priced as well.

New Frame + DA 9000 build coming soon  I bought brand new DA 9000 Shifters, Derailleurs, Cassette, Chain, Fulcrum 3.5's, 3T Ergonova Carbon, 3T 100mm Stem all for $1100 today - Still need cranks, brakes and a seat. But my build is currently at $1700 including frame, don't feel that's too bad for what I got


----------



## jermleeds

Here is a picture of an FM-029 I built in May, and have put about 1100 miles, and about 100,000 feet of climbing on it since. This was right after I built it, I've adjusted the cockpit a fair amount since, but all parts are as shown here. It has Neuvation wheels, Ultegra drivetrain and shifters. Weighs in at roughly 16.5 lbs, give or take a few tenths. It ways about 8 lbs less than the steel bike it replaced, so, I'm not counting grams. 

It's been fantastic. I bought it to train for and do the Markleeville Death Ride, a ride in the Sierra of California, 5 mountain passes totallying 15k' of climbing over a 130 miles. So I was looking for an endurance-style frame. This has similar geometry to a Specialized Roubaix, which was the bike I liked the most in my research test rides, although some of the details of construction are quite different. As expected, it rides very similarly to the Roubaix. It has some quirky specs: I put a very short, 70mm stem on it, and 44cm wide bars, mostly for reasons of comfort. As it turns out the short stem makes an already very responsive bike almost twitchy, which I quite like. So it has the comfort of an endurance bike, while having fairly aggressive handling characteristics. I expected it to climb well, and it does. I did not expect it to be as great a descender as it turned out to be. Tight and accurate turning if you need it, straight line stability if you want it, and road chatter is well smoothed out. I had it over 50 mph coming down Carson Pass, and it felt great. 

A few other tidbits. The internal cable routing is really well thought out and executed. There's really no way to get it wrong if you have half a clue. Resulting shifting performance is appropriately crisp and responsive. One minor gripe - the seat post is a pain to dial in. It's difficult to make fine adjustments to seat angle - you have to pop out the aluminum cones, there were no angle markers on the seat post or the cones, and then the bolt can be a chore to get threaded together again. Adjustment to forward/back seat placement don't require this disassembly and are not a problem, but getting the angle right was more of a pain than it needed to be. 

Word to the wise, buy a tube of carbon assembly paste for the seat post before your build, and use it liberally. Just do it, trust me. 


Total build was about $1650, with a few parts scrounged for free from by brother and buddies. Bought through Deng-Fu, easy enough with a few days of radio silence here or there, same as everyone's experience, seemingly. Shipping time was maybe 10 days.


----------



## svard75

I'm gonna throw 2 cents into the derailment. China is abundant with resources both natural and labour. One advantage a company has for moving production and manufacturing there is cheap labour for the manufacturing portion of any product. What makes a product out of china better than the next is the quality of materials used in the manufacturing and the quality checks at the end. That is decided and driven by the company in various other countries. The reason a specialized frame costs $2000 more than the one being sold by deng fu is because specialized has quite a lot of highly skilled and paid employees living in other parts of the world where cost of living is higher. They also do spend a significant amount of time and effort on designing testing scrapping frames repeat to make them perfect. It may be manufactured in the same facility as the generic frames but the design and specifications are owned by specialized and they are not allowed to copy them exactly. By changing a small design element they aren't. The other benefit is a much more stringent qc process where the slightest imperfection renders the frame garbage. The generics may allow these to pass. It doesn't necessarily mean the frame is dangerous though. Take for example my random experience buying from a generic. Fm15 ISP now converted to non-ISP. Plenty of rides and still rides like a dream. Would I notice the difference between this and a specialized? Probably not unless I can descend at 100km/h and push more than 400 watts consistently. 
I also bought some carbon wheels from china and the first rim was warped. As per the warranty they sent me a new rim and didn't ask for the old one back. 
I'm all for supporting companies from where you live and I try to buy made in nA as much as possible. Finding something that is entirely made in NA is almost impossible. with manufactures competing as much as they are it's impossible for them to have everything manufactured here and continue to be competitive. 

I guess my point is don't dwell on the few posts where a slight blemish on a $600 carbon frame made someone upset.


----------



## meerkite

RaptorTC said:


> How's the tire clearance on the FM098? I'd assume they're capable of taking a 25? I'm planning on running Pro 4's in a 25 (which by nature run a little wide) on a set of wide rims so I guess they might be closer to a 28?


I run 25mm gp4000s on my fm098, no problem at all on campy bullets. The 25mm makes a smooth ride, on our less than prestine roads.


----------



## NYC_CAAD

Hey 00Garza. Do u have the direct link to Zhongwei. I found this on alibaba
Shenzhen Zhongwei Composite Material Co., Ltd. - Carbon Frame, Carbon Fork




00Garza said:


> Hey all, I'm fairly new around here as I thought the direct from China route might be looked down upon on this forum. Through Velobuild I got in contact with Chris from ZhongWei and bought a R-002 as my first upgrade after riding an entry level Sora equipped 25lb bike for a year and a half.
> 
> My purchase experience was great and I'm loving the frame!
> 
> Overall, I'm completely satisfied with my direct from china experience and would gladly do it again. Here's a pretty bad pic of my bike. Only one I got right now.
> https://i.imgur.com/gCdBt4J.jpg
> 
> ...I think I recognize some of my fellow velobuilders here :thumbsup:


----------



## 00Garza

NYC_CAAD said:


> Hey 00Garza. Do u have the direct link to Zhongwei. I found this on alibaba
> Shenzhen Zhongwei Composite Material Co., Ltd. - Carbon Frame, Carbon Fork



That looks like their stuff alright. I don't think they have a website. I just emailed one of their reps directly. His name is Chris. Here is his email address:
[email protected]


----------



## NYC_CAAD

Thanks my friend! 



00Garza said:


> That looks like their stuff alright. I don't think they have a website. I just emailed one of their reps directly. His name is Chris. Here is his email address:
> [email protected]


----------



## Mr.Habanero

I just got my R-029 in the mail the other day and its pretty nice. It looks just like a Tarmac! There is one problem. The head set that is included doesnt seem to work with the frame. The fork is just like specializeds but the bottom integrated bearing seems to tall for the fork so there is this large gap between the fork crown and the bottom of the head tube.. i will include pix in a bit. For some reason my device isnt letting me upload any photos.


----------



## Mr.Habanero

Problem solved! It took me awhile to figure out the fork has a built in crown race. I was installing an addtional one so of course there would be a big gap. Its a pretty baddass frame and Chris is a huge help


----------



## wielracer

Mr.Habanero said:


> Problem solved! It took me awhile to figure out the fork has a built in crown race. I was installing an addtional one so of course there would be a big gap. Its a pretty baddass frame and Chris is a huge help


can you please post some pictures of the fork and the built-in crown?
I've ordered this frame too last week.


----------



## manmachine

Nice shot! Very clean looking David


----------



## hummina shadeeba

Thats classic chinese talk! To your lactation! Its still funny. Why nobody in china can get a decent translator for their biz i dont understand. Its just a couple of pages...they could send it to an entuerpurenial 5th grader.


----------



## FTR

hummina shadeeba said:


> Thats classic chinese talk! To your lactation! Its still funny. Why nobody in china can get a decent translator for their biz i dont understand. Its just a couple of pages...they could send it to an entuerpurenial 5th grader.


Would love to see what went back to them if your office received an email from them in Mandarin or Cantonese.
Send that to your local 5th grade and see how well they do with it.


----------



## mrcreosote

Yishun FM055









Gios Aero Lite









wonder how much they are charging for the paintwork, decals and head badge?


----------



## wevergo

Yishun FM055: USD 699,-
YS-FM055 Carbon Road Racing Frameset - Frame & Fork

Gios Aero Lite frame set: USD 1724,-:yikes:


----------



## glepore

Very cool frame, too bad its not available without the paint.


----------



## pushstart

Yishun frames are by default without paint. (I think you actually have to pay extra to get decals as pictured.)


----------



## redstarcap

hummina shadeeba said:


> Thats classic chinese talk! To your lactation! Its still funny. Why nobody in china can get a decent translator for their biz i dont understand. Its just a couple of pages...they could send it to an entuerpurenial 5th grader.


For chinese people, even alphabet is new for them. Possibly they just write in chinese and google translate it


----------



## spaakie

Went out for a ride today, came down from a hill. Took a steep corner, change gear up. Press down the pedal. BANG derailleur break down straight in my back wheel. Saw a chainwheel lying of the tarmac afterwords.

Now my derailleur hanger break down too. Does somebody now where to order one ASAP. And is the rear end of the frame still oke?


----------



## pushstart

Wow, that sucks! Can't see the frame to clearly; did the chain chew up the chainstay? You probably should carefully check your rear wheel/spokes; getting the chain in there's probably damaged the spokes and you will want to replace those. As for the hanger, you will probably need to contact the seller to order another -- probably order two (I went ahead and ordered a spare for my Yishun frame). Hope they can get one over to you right away.


----------



## spaakie

pushstart said:


> Wow, that sucks! Can't see the frame to clearly; did the chain chew up the chainstay? You probably should carefully check your rear wheel/spokes; getting the chain in there's probably damaged the spokes and you will want to replace those. As for the hanger, you will probably need to contact the seller to order another -- probably order two (I went ahead and ordered a spare for my Yishun frame). Hope they can get one over to you right away.


Thanks for the reply, the chain is stuck behind my sprockets. And the bottom part of the rearderailleur broke down. I've build up this bike in 2009 and got with the frame a spare derailleurhanger. I am such a prik that I've lost it... But that is always what you're thinking afterwards. I try too contact a second and third seller too. Thanks for the advise.


----------



## berndrea

off subject, but I love all my TWINS boxing gear!


----------



## skitorski

Not being picky or snarky but this post has zero relevence to this thread. OP, why don't you create a new thread ?


----------



## RonnyTCR

jbrookeiv said:


> Here's my build with full Ultegra, including all shipping costs. All parts are completely new except the Ultegra group which was a take-off after 10 miles of riding. It would not be possible to get close to this weight for this price from a LBS or online with branded frames.
> 
> Make Weight Cost
> Frame/Fork Flyxii FR-315 1384 $490.00
> Stem Ritchey Pro 4axis 150 $34.99
> Handlebar Dengfu 220 $48.00
> Bar Tape Fizik Microtex 63 $17.95
> Brake/Shifters Shimano Ultegra 448 $610.00
> Crankset Shimano Ultegra 800
> Derailleurs – F Shimano Ultegra 84
> Derailleurs – R Shimano Ultegra 190
> Brakes Shimano Ultegra 308
> Cassette Shimano 105 238 $48.99
> Chain Shimano Ultegra 267 $31.99
> Cables/Housing
> Headset incl with frame 93 $0.00
> Pedals Forte Team Road 280 $0.00
> Seatpost Flyxii 163 $0.00
> Saddle Cutter 212 $0.00
> Tires Continental Gatorskins 460 $87.98
> Tubes Vittoria Latex 150 $29.68
> Wheels Vuelta Corsa-Lite 1523 $240.00
> 
> Totals 7033 $1,639.58
> 
> Weight in lb 15.50509246


with 1639 dollar I can go buy a use Giant TCR advanced that is a better bike. WOW thats a lot of money to spend for a cheap build. You can a used TCR advanced with Dura Ace groupset for 1600.


----------



## bobonker

I built a cheap criterium bike around Hong Fu's FM-015. I dealt with Vivian and the whole transaction was smooth and everything shipped on time. This frame has been around for quite awhile now and has a good track record. The finish quality of this frame was top-notch and on par with my SL3 Roubaix that I built up 2 years ago. In the past, I've purchased from greatkeenbike.com and cyclingyong.com and both of those frames needed some TLC before assembly (resin in the bottom bracket shell, rear derailleur mount bent inwards, etc).

I bought a used 105 group for $350, spent $500 on the frame/fork/headset, and used a set of older Reynolds Attacks to complete the stealth look. 

16 lb 2 oz (matte UD frame finish). It's very stiff and fast. Handles more like a Tarmac than my Roubaix and the ride is noticeably less compliant than the Rouabaix, but for the cost, I think it's a perfect bike for Cat 5 crits where crashing is common. I'm hoping not to crash, but if I do, having this bike hit the deck will sting a lot less than doing it with my Roubaix.

Bob


----------



## RonnyTCR

bobonker said:


> I built a cheap criterium bike around Hong Fu's FM-015. I dealt with Vivian and the whole transaction was smooth and everything shipped on time. This frame has been around for quite awhile now and has a good track record. The finish quality of this frame was top-notch and on par with my SL3 Roubaix that I built up 2 years ago. In the past, I've purchased from greatkeenbike.com and cyclingyong.com and both of those frames needed some TLC before assembly (resin in the bottom bracket shell, rear derailleur mount bent inwards, etc).
> 
> I bought a used 105 group for $350, spent $500 on the frame/fork/headset, and used a set of older Reynolds Attacks to complete the stealth look.
> 
> 16 lb 2 oz (matte UD frame finish). It's very stiff and fast. Handles more like a Tarmac than my Roubaix and the ride is noticeably less compliant than the Rouabaix, but for the cost, I think it's a perfect bike for Cat 5 crits where crashing is common. I'm hoping not to crash, but if I do, having this bike hit the deck will sting a lot less than doing it with my Roubaix.
> 
> Bob


nice bike.


----------



## persondude27

spaakie said:


> Went out for a ride today, came down from a hill. Took a steep corner, change gear up. Press down the pedal. BANG derailleur break down straight in my back wheel. Saw a chainwheel lying of the tarmac afterwords.
> 
> Now my derailleur hanger break down too. Does somebody now where to order one ASAP. And is the rear end of the frame still oke?


As has been mentioned, your best bet for a new hanger is an eBay seller or local (US-based?) company that sells FM015s as their own bikes. Or, find your old one. 

As for the crash itself - it sounds like your rear limit screw was mis-adjusted. This allowed the rear derailleur to shift up into the spokes, which unfortunately had enough weight to rip the thing off.

Check the frame - is there any obvious cracking in the paint? Take the wheel off, and grab the dropout. Does it creak if you force it back and forth, hard? It may be okay.

Same with the derailleur - it may be salvageable. They're really just hunks of aluminum and steel, and the hangers are designed to break to save the frame and them.

The wheel, however, is probably worthless The thing about factory built wheels it that it's usually cheaper to replace than fix one. I had a limit screw mis-aligned and put the chain up into the spokes, which caused a break after I trued it months later. Thankfully, the spoke broke just moments after a 60 mph descent, not during it.

Glad you're okay! Hope the bike is too!


----------



## mrcreosote

spaakie said:


> Now my derailleur hanger break down too. Does somebody now where to order one ASAP. And is the rear end of the frame still oke?


DerailleurHanger.com


----------



## RonnyTCR

spaakie said:


> Went out for a ride today, came down from a hill. Took a steep corner, change gear up. Press down the pedal. BANG derailleur break down straight in my back wheel. Saw a chainwheel lying of the tarmac afterwords.
> 
> Now my derailleur hanger break down too. Does somebody now where to order one ASAP. And is the rear end of the frame still oke?


dang... thank god you're ok.


----------



## pushstart

mrcreosote said:


> DerailleurHanger.com


What should he choose for mfr since there is no Hongfu/Dengfu listed?


----------



## mrcreosote

pushstart said:


> What should he choose for mfr since there is no Hongfu/Dengfu listed?


By 'Bike Manufacturer' is not the only way to navigate the site. 

He could:

A) look under the '3-hole' hanger style
B) Read the section headed 'Photo Tips' on Policies

My initial guess would be between #96, #232 and #148

Amazing what you can find if you try.

And, FWIW, the original Wheel Manufacturing site is probably better to help identify which one as it has larger images and both sides

Wheels Mfg 2-Fastener Replacement Derailleur Hangers


----------



## Crawf

RaptorTC said:


> How's the tire clearance on the FM098? I'd assume they're capable of taking a 25? I'm planning on running Pro 4's in a 25 (which by nature run a little wide) on a set of wide rims so I guess they might be closer to a 28?


25mm wide rims with 28mm tyres measured at 28mm had no issues, still loads of frame clearance, but wouldn't get much more than 28mm in due to brake clearance anyway.


----------



## RaptorTC

Awesome, thanks!


----------



## pushstart

mrcreosote said:


> By 'Bike Manufacturer' is not the only way to navigate the site.
> 
> He could:
> 
> A) look under the '3-hole' hanger style
> B) Read the section headed 'Photo Tips' on Policies
> 
> My initial guess would be between #96, #232 and #148
> 
> Amazing what you can find if you try.
> 
> And, FWIW, the original Wheel Manufacturing site is probably better to help identify which one as it has larger images and both sides
> 
> Wheels Mfg 2-Fastener Replacement Derailleur Hangers


Sorry for my glib reply. You are right: there are other ways to browse. I guess my point was that I wouldn't want to guess about the right fit (and potentially none of them fit?) when I can contact the mfr and have them ship a new part EMS. The photo solution might be a good option if shipping costs from China makes the mfr option impractical.

If someone *does* find the match on derailleurhanger.com, it'd be great of them to post the number somewhere for posterity (or let the site know so they can add it to their mfr/model list).


----------



## mrcreosote

tina chen said:


> Dengfu have newest FM126 track framest


As do Hongfu and Yishun. Hongfu also have FM202

or search for 'carbon track frame' on aliexpress or ebay


----------



## hummina shadeeba

*New bike*

What i meant is...at the school i work about half know both fluently, but havent been contacted for the job, but they could do better

Dont know how many people have bought two from china direct. I had the fm-015. Think it was. And now the fr-315. Think it is. Got it from amazon for 30 more than aliexpress. Not sure if it was any more secure but amazon's site seemed so to me


----------



## jabberwocky569

ZhongWei R-002 I built for my girlfriend. Bars, post and fork at all ZhongWei. Mostly an older Force group, wit a set of Rival cranks. The rest of the parts are stuff I had laying around or bought used on craigslist.

Without pedals it came in at around 16.5 pounds. 










Can you guess what her favorite color is?


----------



## [email protected]

Looks really nice, love the color too (maybe I would prefer it a bit more red and less orange)

Also pretty light I think. Your girlfriend is lucky


----------



## tailwind

This is my first post so I apologize in advance if it is wrong.
I have been looking for information on the new Hongfu FM069sl road frame (not the TT frame by the same model number). Its a clean looking design that weighs 750 to 920g depending on size. They are being sold directly from the Hongfu site and from alibaba, I havent seen any on ebay yet.
It is fairly new but there should be some out there somewhere. 
How about it...Does anyone in forum land have one or any information about the hongfu FM069?
thanks


----------



## GONE4ARIDE

I have a FM069 frame set. I received it a week ago but I haven't built it up yet. The overall quality looks great. Frame weight (56cm BB30) is about 940 grams (painted frame) and the fork weight is 340 grams. 



tailwind said:


> This is my first post so I apologize in advance if it is wrong.
> I have been looking for information on the new Hongfu FM069sl road frame (not the TT frame by the same model number). Its a clean looking design that weighs 750 to 920g depending on size. They are being sold directly from the Hongfu site and from alibaba, I havent seen any on ebay yet.
> It is fairly new but there should be some out there somewhere.
> How about it...Does anyone in forum land have one or any information about the hongfu FM069?
> thanks


----------



## byhsu

Here is my FM015, without the water bottles and saddle bag, it came in at 16.4 lbs.

53cm frame, 42cm bars. it rides very nicely over rough pavement.


----------



## tailwind

Thanks for the information and good luck with your build. I ordered a 60cm frame and I have everything ready for the build. Just waiting for the frame to b completed. Hongfu is now telling me it will be another month until it is ready. 
There seems to be a information vacuum regarding the fm069. I have found zero reviews or testimonials. It makes me wonder how many have been sold.


----------



## 00Garza

tailwind said:


> This is my first post so I apologize in advance if it is wrong.
> I have been looking for information on the new Hongfu FM069sl road frame (not the TT frame by the same model number). Its a clean looking design that weighs 750 to 920g depending on size. They are being sold directly from the Hongfu site and from alibaba, I havent seen any on ebay yet.
> It is fairly new but there should be some out there somewhere.
> How about it...Does anyone in forum land have one or any information about the hongfu FM069?
> thanks


Personally, I'm a little wary of any frame considered sl (superlight). Before pulling the trigger on my frame I looked into the FM066sl and came across several instances of broken or cracked chainstays after just a few rides. Some have ridden them and were fine, but it definitely turned me away. The few grams saved just didn't seem worth the risk to me, so I went with the heavier R-002 and its massive stays.

Then again, perhaps they've remedied this with the newer model.


----------



## GONE4ARIDE

It's seems that they are bit backed up with orders right now. We actually placed a fairly good sized team order with them back at the end of September and we still have not taken delivery of the majority of the order.

I think that they have a sold a few of this relatively new model thus far, but not too many. I am sure that the reviews will begin to pop up over the next quarter or so.

For what it worth, Hongfu has recently posted a few pictures of a built FM069 on the their Facebook page.



tailwind said:


> Thanks for the information and good luck with your build. I ordered a 60cm frame and I have everything ready for the build. Just waiting for the frame to b completed. Hongfu is now telling me it will be another month until it is ready.
> There seems to be a information vacuum regarding the fm069. I have found zero reviews or testimonials. It makes me wonder how many have been sold.


----------



## GONE4ARIDE

To keep this in perspective, there have been many FM066 and FM066SLs' sold to many happy buyers. I have only seen 3 post on various websites about problems; one concerning a seat tube issue and 2 concerning cracked chain stays.

I questioned Hongfu about this in late October/early November (shortly after placing a large order with them) and they acknowledged that there were some issues with a production run back in July and that the issues had since been remedied. There was no mention of how many frames this may have involved. Nonetheless, it seems to have been very limited because I have not seen any other posts since the 3 that popped up all within the same 1-2 week period. 



00Garza said:


> Personally, I'm a little wary of any frame considered sl (superlight). Before pulling the trigger on my frame I looked into the FM066sl and came across several instances of broken or cracked chainstays after just a few rides. Some have ridden them and were fine, but it definitely turned me away. The few grams saved just didn't seem worth the risk to me, so I went with the heavier R-002 and its massive stays.
> 
> Then again, perhaps they've remedied this with the newer model.


----------



## Andy_M

Hi all, first post here, came over from Slowtwitch. We've been talking about some of the chinese TT frames. The new Avenger TT from Hongfu has got my interest. I've been in contact with one of their sales reps and she just sent me the geometry chart and pricing. 
I'll do my homework tonight and go back and read through this entire thread. Yikes. 
Is anyone here on one of the TM01 clones?


----------



## 00Garza

GONE4ARIDE said:


> To keep this in perspective, there have been many FM066 and FM066SLs' sold to many happy buyers. I have only seen 3 post on various websites about problems; one concerning a seat tube issue and 2 concerning cracked chain stays.
> 
> I questioned Hongfu about this in late October/early November (shortly after placing a large order with them) and they acknowledged that there were some issues with a production run back in July and that the issues had since been remedied. There was no mention of how many frames this may have involved. Nonetheless, it seems to have been very limited because I have not seen any other posts since the 3 that popped up all within the same 1-2 week period.


Sorry, didn't mean to sound like a fear monger. It just so happens I was shopping around when those reports came up which swayed me away from that frame. I know some people who race that frame hard and all has been well.

Edit: makes me wish we had a subforum to discuss all the other variables of buying chinese carbon.


----------



## Ricey155

redstarcap said:


> For chinese people, even alphabet is new for them. Possibly they just write in chinese and google translate it



I like it


----------



## RacerOne

I'm trying to decide between the FR-602-D and the FM-105-d cyclocross frame/fork. The FR-602-d is probably more what I want geometry wise, as it is very similar to the Foundry Auger. My sticking point on it is the (in my opinion) odd looking fork. The geometry on the FM-105-d is different than any other bikes I can compare it too, and I seem to not be able to find nearly as much information on the specific geometry measurements (front-center) for example. Would anybody have a good chart of the complete FM-105-d measurements? Maybe some personal experience with frame itself? Thanks in advance.


----------



## ollyboyd

Hey guys, this thread seems to have slowed down a bit so I'm going to take this opportunity to ask a question.

I have been saving up and following a few Chinese crabon threads for a couple of years and I'm still so undecided. Could someone who is better informed than me suggest some frames with full internal cable routing and not too aggressive geometry?

I'll be using the bike for sportives and climbing and I prefer a more classic look than a frame with curves/waves in the tubing.

Many thanks, Olly


----------



## byhsu

is there a frame that looks like the 2014 Cervelo S2?


----------



## jtb013

Does anyone have any experience with Xiamen Focus carbon technologies (Carbon Bicycle Wheels,Carbon Bicycle Rims,Carbon Bicycle Frames,Carbon Bicycle Components from FOCUS CARBON TECHNOLOGIES LIMITED or Carbon Bicycle Time Trial Frames, Carbon Bicycle Time Trial Frames direct from Xiamen Speedercycling Packaging Material Co., Ltd. in China (Mainland))? I am interested in purchasing a FF-R817 frame from them and would like to know if anyone has had any experiences (good or bad) with them or this frame.

Joe


----------



## mrcreosote

ollyboyd said:


> Hey guys, this thread seems to have slowed down a bit so I'm going to take this opportunity to ask a question.
> 
> I have been saving up and following a few Chinese crabon threads for a couple of years and I'm still so undecided. Could someone who is better informed than me suggest some frames with full internal cable routing and not too aggressive geometry?
> 
> I'll be using the bike for sportives and climbing and I prefer a more classic look than a frame with curves/waves in the tubing.
> 
> Many thanks, Olly


Dengfu FM029


----------



## rbart4506

mrcreosote said:


> Dengfu FM029


I will concur... Awesome frame! I have one and an FM028, which is the externally routed version. Both frames have been fantastic....


----------



## Step

*New member*

Happy new year to every one, new member looking for information on Chinese made bikes for purchase etc living in New Zealand so prices down here for new bikes are over the top so looking for other options, hope other people with experience may be able to point me in right direction without getting burnt? Cheers


----------



## mtsheron

What sort of Chinese bikes? Do you have any links? If you mean the frames there are quite a bit of very well known name brand bikes that now outsource that area of their companies production where as they use to do in house.


----------



## Step

I have been looking at dhgate? Web site from china and they sell pinarello frames etc for great prices I was wondering if they are good copies or possible original frames being sold cheap from the manufacturer?


----------



## DCash

Step said:


> I have been looking at dhgate? Web site from china and they sell pinarello frames etc for great prices I was wondering if they are good copies or possible original frames being sold cheap from the manufacturer?


They are copies, but some are very good copies and many people have been very happy with them while some have serious quality control issues. 

From my research when buying my frame: it appears that the copy frames(Dogma, Cervlo, Spesh...) have more issues than the open mold frames designed by the Chinese. My theory is that they focus more on the cosmetic appearance of the fakes and the engineering suffers. The open mold frames are designed to be functional.

I went with the Hong Fu FM015, has a lot of positive reviews and very few negative ones. I put 5k miles on it this year and absolutely love it. 

Just don't buy a counterfeit. Customize it and make it yours.


----------



## RaptorTC

Just put my order in for an FM098 in matte 3k. Can't wait to get it and experience carbon.


----------



## wojchiech

Has anyone here ordered a frame with PF30 bottom bracket from any of the eastern manufacturers? I'm looking for a PF30 frame because of the more lenient machining tolerances compared to BB30, while still allowing BB30 crank compatibility.

Great Keen seems to have the counterparts for the Tarmac SL4 and Venge available in PF30 - Has anyone gotten these?


----------



## 00Garza

Step said:


> Happy new year to every one, new member looking for information on Chinese made bikes for purchase etc living in New Zealand so prices down here for new bikes are over the top so looking for other options, hope other people with experience may be able to point me in right direction without getting burnt? Cheers


Welcome. First off, I'll second the motion to get an open mold over a replica. I went with the ZhongWei R-002 and love its unique look and easy going geometry. 

Most of the guys in this thread (including me) bought a frame and acquired the other parts to build up a bike ourselves, or got someone to build it for us. I got a nice used groupset ridiculously cheap which made the work worth it. If a budget is your biggest concern, and you want a complete bike ready to go there are other options you can check out first. Planet X has great deals on carbon bikes, as does merlin cycles. 

Buying a frame and aqcuiring the parts doesn't really save you a whole lot of money unless you have a killer deal lined up on parts. If you're really interested in buying a frame and building a bike, then there are plenty of pretty reputable companies to buy frames from. Some of these do sell complete bikes, though not incredibly cheap.
Yishun bikes
Dengfu
ZhongWei
Speedercycling
Honor Bikes
iPlay

These are just a few of the companies I researched before pulling the trigger on my frame. *If anyone has had bad experiences with any of these, feel free to chime in.*


----------



## Mr.Habanero

Look into the R-029. I have that and its pretty badass. Its the Tarmac clone. I've been meaning to post some pix but havent yet. Never in a million years would i paste any S logos or anything like that it all origional, as far as artwork goes lol. Great service from Zhong Wie and "Chris" was very helpful. All emails answered within 24 hours or so. Check em out.


----------



## myhui

00Garza said:


> Yishun bikes
> Dengfu
> ZhongWei
> Speedercycling
> Honor Bikes
> iPlay


I am riding a WS-02 frame from gotobike.com.cn. It works very well. They have newer models now with an integrated seat post, and slightly different geometry and carbon lay ups.

Customer service is just fine. The only negative was they couldn't definitely tell me what angle of taper the headset's crown race had. They sent me a drawing, but the angles didn't match what was stamped onto the part.

Simply buy the headset from the frame manufacturer to avoid these problems.

Also make sure you buy those tiny plastic things that go into the frame to let the cable housing stop as it enters the frame. Nowadays when both electronic or manual shifting is supported on the same frame, those adaptors are different for each system. In my case, they didn't include either, so that required another one week wait for them to ship it to me.

That same company makes very nice handlebars with integrated stems with internal cable routing. The bar feels so smooth that I've been riding the bike without any tape wrapped around the handlebars for months and that feels just fine.


----------



## GoldenR

I have been searching but i cannot find what make/model my new frame is. Can anyone help identify it?


----------



## Duci

Overview of chinese Disc frames

Has anyone made a overview of all chinese disc frames? I'm looking for a disc road frame - if possible with thru-bolt. 

If no one has made such a overview - maybe we can do it now? 

thanks


----------



## pushstart

Snakes that Bite: Disc-Brake Road Bike (Part 1: Frame Research and Sourcing)

I did some research back in Oct. I did not find any with thru-axles (so you mean 12mm rear or 15mm front?) but you can always use 10mm/9mm thru bolts in the QR dropouts. That is what I am doing for now in front (until upgrading my fork to Whisky No 9 later). I haven't had an issue with rear-wheel stiffness, so am leaving that as QR.


----------



## Duci

Thanks pushstart! Yes, at least 15mm front. Whisky No 9 is a option - but rather a expensive one. 

Has anyone found other disc frames? Maybe pushstart can extend his overview in order to get a "full" overview over all carbon road disc frames from Asia.



pushstart said:


> Snakes that Bite: Disc-Brake Road Bike (Part 1: Frame Research and Sourcing)
> 
> I did some research back in Oct. I did not find any with they axles (so you mean 12mm rear or 15mm front?) but you can always use 10mm/9mm thru bolts in the QR dropouts. That is what I am doing for now in front (until upgrading my fork to Whisky No 9 later). I haven't had an issue with rear-wheel stiffness, so am leaving that as QR.


----------



## pushstart

Duci said:


> Has anyone found other disc frames? Maybe pushstart can extend his overview in order to get a "full" overview over all carbon road disc frames from Asia.


I will happily collect additional information people might have. I had found a few others on alibaba, but the ones I mentioned were the larger/more-reputable ones I could find. I also glossed over anything that didn't come in a ~60cm size.

I don't think there are any Chinese-made forks with 15mm thru axles. If you find one, let me know! You're right that the Whisky No 9 is expensive -- basically the cost of the frame! If buying in the USA it can be mitigated a bit by using universalcycle's 15% off purchases over $300 coupon, but we're still looking at $550+. So I'll use the fork that came with the frame for now -- at least until I've done some more fitting work and am really, really sure I know where I want to cut that steerer 

My bigger issue right now is disc brakes. I want Spyres for the rear heal clearance, but no one has the post-recall calipers yet apparently; maybe this week, since new ones should have shipped out. Hy/Rd would probably work too, but there again stock is almost non-existent (presumably unrelated).


----------



## newby01

Hi I'm new this forum but I have spent a fair bit of time reading peoples post. I just want a bit of help on who's the best person to get a bike through? I see majority of the china brand companies only sell the framing is there a cheap site that sells the complete bike?


----------



## pushstart

There are sites that sell complete bikes, but the cheap part is the frame/fork (or other carbon components). You won't save much, if any, money on the groupset or other parts that they have to import into China and then ship across the ocean. So the complete bikes tend to be not so cheap, especially when compared to brands like Nashbar, Sette (pricepoint.com), and Motobecane (bikesdirect.com) that push big (bigger?) volume and apparently have access to better wholesale deals. Great Keen is a example of a place that does complete bikes, but much of their stuff is obviously counterfeit. (And $2500 for an Ultegra 6700 bike does not strike me as a great price.)

And there is no single best person to talk to -- hence the length of these threads. You probably can't go wrong (well, you *can* - there is some luck-of-the-draw involved) dealing with one of the often mentioned names here -- Hongfu, Dengfu, Miracle, Yishun, etc. The sites all have contact links; you will generally hear back from a sales rep within a business day (remember time difference).


----------



## Ashbringer

hi，anyone has got a Hongfu FM069?
It costs 4500 RMB in China,quite more expensive than 066..:mad2:
but it's super light as 780g


----------



## newby01

pushstart said:


> There are sites that sell complete bikes, but the cheap part is the frame/fork (or other carbon components). You won't save much, if any, money on the groupset or other parts that they have to import into China and then ship across the ocean. So the complete bikes tend to be not so cheap, especially when compared to brands like Nashbar, Sette (pricepoint.com), and Motobecane (bikesdirect.com) that push big (bigger?) volume and apparently have access to better wholesale deals. Great Keen is a example of a place that does complete bikes, but much of their stuff is obviously counterfeit. (And $2500 for an Ultegra 6700 bike does not strike me as a great price.)
> 
> And there is no single best person to talk to -- hence the length of these threads. You probably can't go wrong (well, you *can* - there is some luck-of-the-draw involved) dealing with one of the often mentioned names here -- Hongfu, Dengfu, Miracle, Yishun, etc. The sites all have contact links; you will generally hear back from a sales rep within a business day (remember time difference).


Thanks for the help pushstart my budget is actually quite low I'm looking at spending max $1500 as it will be my first ever road bike.

I might just play it safe and buy a bike from a shop for my first one and deal with the sora group set  
I'm a little bit timid to buy a bike that i have to put together as i may stuff the build up and waste my money.


----------



## wojchiech

newby01 said:


> Thanks for the help pushstart my budget is actually quite low I'm looking at spending max $1500 as it will be my first ever road bike.
> 
> I might just play it safe and buy a bike from a shop for my first one and deal with the sora group set


My last bike was a shop-bought bike with Ultegra 6600 I bought in 08/09ish - for $1500. It's sad what little you can get with your money anymore, at least in bike shops.

My 2 cents would be to still look for the best deals/best components ratio online. With $1500 you can get a x-fu frame or similar, Sram Force or mechanical Shimano, and decent wheels. It's a lot more bang for your buck, and you will probably end up spending less money trying to replace parts over time (because they are already pretty good).

Also, if you have someone like me for a buddy (who practically has a bike shop for a garage, and accepts Belgian beer as labor costs), the cost to build it up won't be that much either. :thumbsup:


----------



## newby01

wojchiech said:


> My last bike was a shop-bought bike with Ultegra 6600 I bought in 08/09ish - for $1500. It's sad what little you can get with your money anymore, at least in bike shops.
> 
> My 2 cents would be to still look for the best deals/best components ratio online. With $1500 you can get a x-fu frame or similar, Sram Force or mechanical Shimano, and decent wheels. It's a lot more bang for your buck, and you will probably end up spending less money trying to replace parts over time (because they are already pretty good).
> 
> Also, if you have someone like me for a buddy (who practically has a bike shop for a garage, and accepts Belgian beer as labor costs), the cost to build it up won't be that much either. :thumbsup:


It is sad how much money you outlay in a bike shop to just get the basics, that's one of the main reasons I'm looking online for a bargain bike  with in my price range.where would i look for one of the frames you mentioned above? unfortunately i have no friends that own a bike shop to help with the build of the bike  and i live in Australia I'm guessing you live overseas with the choice of beer ;-) 

i have just came a cross a complete kestrel bike with in price range with 105 group set have any of you heard if they are any good?


----------



## pushstart

Yeah, if you don't feel comfortable (or have access to the people/tools) putting it together yourself, probably something like bikesdirect.com is going to be the best value. Maybe there is a better option since you are in Australia ... But the Motobecane frames are decent (a little boring and not super light, but probably higher finish quality than many/most of these open-mould Chinese frames) and your budget can probably get you Ultegra 6800 and decent (e.g. Mavic) wheels.

I do recommend the experience of building up a bike, but you are right that it could be an expensive learning proposition.


----------



## jermleeds

rbart4506 said:


> I will concur... Awesome frame! I have one and an FM028, which is the externally routed version. Both frames have been fantastic....



Concur X2. I've had the FM-029 since May, I've put a ton of miles and climbing on it, it handles great, it's efficient and super comfortable. Highly recommended.


----------



## newby01

pushstart said:


> Yeah, if you don't feel comfortable (or have access to the people/tools) putting it together yourself, probably something like bikesdirect.com is going to be the best value. Maybe there is a better option since you are in Australia ... But the Motobecane frames are decent (a little boring and not super light, but probably higher finish quality than many/most of these open-mould Chinese frames) and your budget can probably get you Ultegra 6800 and decent (e.g. Mavic) wheels.
> 
> I do recommend the experience of building up a bike, but you are right that it could be an expensive learning proposition.



Ive stumbled across a site in the US called jensonUSA they have a nice kestral bike just wondering if you know anything about these bikes here is a link Kestrel Talon Road Bike 2014 > Complete Bikes > Road Bikes | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop
an you let me know what you think of the setup?

cheers


----------



## pushstart

newby01 said:


> Ive stumbled across a site in the US called jensonUSA they have a nice kestral bike just wondering if you know anything about these bikes here is a link Kestrel Talon Road Bike 2014 > Complete Bikes > Road Bikes | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop
> an you let me know what you think of the setup?
> 
> cheers


That looks like a reasonable deal, but I suspect you could find better (Ultegra-grade instead of Tiagra+105) for your budget. It looks like you can't have that particular bike shipped to Australia, though -- according to the"Shipping" tab, anyway.


----------



## newby01

pushstart said:


> That looks like a reasonable deal, but I suspect you could find better (Ultegra-grade instead of Tiagra+105) for your budget. It looks like you can't have that particular bike shipped to Australia, though -- according to the"Shipping" tab, anyway.


yeah i did eventually notice that when i changed the currency to AUS dollars it was a little out my price range with all shipping cost included I'm fighting a losing battle at the moment.

but i will keep looking


----------



## pushstart

newby01 said:


> yeah i did eventually notice that when i changed the currency to AUS dollars it was a little out my price range with all shipping cost included I'm fighting a losing battle at the moment.
> 
> but i will keep looking


Yeah, the product shipping details also said that bike was not permitted to be shipped to Australia (due to brand/license agreements).

Well, good luck!


----------



## ericTheHalf

rbart4506 said:


> I will concur... Awesome frame! I have one and an FM028, which is the externally routed version. Both frames have been fantastic....


That reminds me. I meant to post an update at the 2 year anniversary of my FM028. It is now about the 2 year and 4 month mark. about 9,000 miles and 400,000 ft of climbing.
...and now I'll be that guy that posts a video because I got a new GoPro camera. I posted this in another thread too but seems relevant here since it is a Dengfu FM028.


----------



## 00Garza

newby01 said:


> Thanks for the help pushstart my budget is actually quite low I'm looking at spending max $1500 as it will be my first ever road bike.


IMO, $1500 is a huge budget for your *first* bike. I rode a used Nashbar bike I bought for $300 dollars for a year to make sure this was something I enjoy and was going to pursue before upgrading. Not that you're not welcome in this thread, but you might have better luck and get more help by posting in the beginner's corner subforum.


----------



## bugly64

00Garza said:


> IMO, $1500 is a huge budget for your *first* bike. I rode a used Nashbar bike I bought for $300 dollars for a year to make sure this was something I enjoy and was going to pursue before upgrading. Not that you're not welcome in this thread, but you might have better luck and get more help by posting in the beginner's corner subforum.


It's all in how you see it. I went all out on a Mtb and used the high quality parts (XT everything)for three other builds. I did the same with my current road bike and never regretted it.


----------



## redstarcap

ericTheHalf said:


> That reminds me. I meant to post an update at the 2 year anniversary of my FM028. It is now about the 2 year and 4 month mark. about 9,000 miles and 400,000 ft of climbing.
> ...and now I'll be that guy that posts a video because I got a new GoPro camera. I posted this in another thread too but seems relevant here since it is a Dengfu FM028.


Would u mind sharing what app/editing software did u use for the speed and direction display?


----------



## ericTheHalf

redstarcap said:


> Would u mind sharing what app/editing software did u use for the speed and direction display?


Sure. It is Java so you can run it on any computer and it is free! Not the most polished user experience but usable.
https://sites.google.com/site/verymadmart/cyclecam

Edit: The above application outputs the overlay file only. I layered that on top of the GoPro video with iMovie. Since I edited together different camera angles I had to sync it all with the speed visually, so the speeds shown may not be exactly what they were in the video but very close. If you just do a single video with the overlay it would probably be much easier.


----------



## twiggy

ericTheHalf said:


> That reminds me. I meant to post an update at the 2 year anniversary of my FM028. It is now about the 2 year and 4 month mark. about 9,000 miles and 400,000 ft of climbing.
> ...and now I'll be that guy that posts a video because I got a new GoPro camera. I posted this in another thread too but seems relevant here since it is a Dengfu FM028.


Great vid!....Hairy legs though?! Shave those bad boys


----------



## aclinjury

*Epic failure of a Chinarello*









THE END OF THE CHINA FRAME The owner of this no name carbon frameset (originally bought on ebay) was racing this bike when the fork steerer separated. he fell and hit his face. from the time he crashed to when the ambulance came, he lost a cup of blood – he was rushed to the hospital for facial reconstruction surgery on his cheek. he will survive, but will have lots of rash and scars. and in perspective, though the crash was bad, it could’ve been much, much worse. imagine if this happened on a descent in a pack of 100 racers or more. some may say that it’s the owner that’s ultimately responsible of their own equipment, but how much can you really know about your own bike? you weren’t the one that did the carbon layup on it, or engineered it to withstand a certain amount of stress before breaking. the fact that these cheap frames are sold to consumers is not only wreckless, it’s heartless and cold. in the grand scheme of things, the company cranking out these cookie cutter pinarellos haven’t done any research and development on their products. they’re in it for the money, and nothing else. it’s horrible to see one broken, and unfortunate that an innocent cyclist had to suffer injury because of it.


----------



## duriel

That is bad, that looks like my bike, but I have the original, thank you very much.


----------



## FTR

That pic is years old.


----------



## spdntrxi

I wouldn't mine a chinarello for my trainer bike


----------



## redondoaveb

I'm still wondering what the point is?


----------



## mrcreosote

because this only happens with cheap, Chinese frames.

Oh, wait......

http://www.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/pdf/1213TarmacCruxSecteur.pdf

Safety Recall

Fox Factory Recalls Evolution Mountain Bike Suspension Forks Due to Fall Hazard | CPSC.gov

http://www.cervelo.com/Media/docs/recalls/Wolf-SL-Poster.pdf

http://www.cervelo.com/Media/docs/recalls/poster.pdf


----------



## Alaska Mike

I seem to recall George Hincapie going down for a similar reason during Paris-Roubaix. Wait... does Trek make good bikes? I forget.

Too many possible variables here to mention, although quality control can certainly be an issue.

No dog in this fight, since I don't own a "Chinarello", although I have owned a few Chinese bikes/forks from various "legit" manufacturers- depending on your definition of legit. Would Nashbar or Bikes Direct be considered any more legit than an open-source frame supplier off of eBay? It really depends on how much effort they go into researching their suppliers. Nice to have a "local" face to blame, but at the end of the day the pavement will likely taste the same.


----------



## mikerp

From what I can tell from the picture the frame looks to be in good shape, the failure was the steerer tube.
Total failure in reporting 101.


----------



## Dunbar

Alaska Mike said:


> I seem to recall George Hincapie going down for a similar reason during Paris-Roubaix.


And it didn't look like this first time it happened to him. He had time to shrug his shoulders in disbelief before laying the bike down on its side gracefully.


----------



## RaptorTC

That's why you don't do your Chinese carbon frame shopping from no name sellers on eBay. If you must buy Chinese carbon, places like Hongfu and Dengfu seem to be much more highly regarded than a "replica" frame that comes from some random eBay seller.


----------



## Bridgey

I've bought 2 Chinarello's. One has been perfect. 

I had to get 1 replaced as the bottom bracket came loose from the carbon. This also happened to me with a reputable brand and it happens with quite a few well known brands with BB30 BB's. 

I got it replaced and the new one got a crack where the front derailleur joins. It was a bit light on carbon there. They replaced that one and then the new one was light on carbon at the back just above the rear brake (the part that joins the seat downward tube). I got this one replaced also and decided to get it in my wife's size who just likes riding around without any power, etc. My other one has been perfect and still is. Love it. Rides like the real deal. 

The company I got it from are great at honouring their warranties. Never had to send them back (so fixed one and turned it into a TT bike), but will never buy from them again. I would trust e-hongfu though. Heard very few complaints. I am about to buy a real 2014 Cervelo S3. Hoping for better quality.


----------



## SauronHimself

Rule of thumb: If you engage in an activity that presents the possibility of serious injury, buy your equipment from someone you can sue.


----------



## Suney

I'm interested in buying a fm098 but I noticed there are variations in the frame?
Some of a more curved head tube while others are more triangular? Even though they are from the same seller. My guess its because of the frame size?

I asked kathy from dengfu but she said they all the same, just taken from different angle


----------



## asherstash1

considering the most common "complaint" about the build quality is "3-5mm gap between steerer and head tube" and its mate "lower bearing race will not fit on fork" and we have seen time and again people threaten to "rectify" this by sanding it till it fits....


----------



## Goudgey

Hi all, I'm after a bit of help please.
i recently bought a 2nd hand FM15-ISP frame set for a super low price. Only problem is the frame is a fraction on the small size for me and I need an extra 15 to 20mm out of the already cut ISP. I knew this when buying but took the chance anyway because the price was too good to refuse.
i assumed that I could simply buy a longer replacement topper in order to get the extra length but I'm unable to find a topper to suit the diameter of the seat mast (37mm dia requiring a topper or internal clear dia of 37.1mm).
I'm hoping someone here can point me in the right direction as I can't be the first person to encounter this issue!
Thanks very much,
Mark


----------



## Bridgey

asherstash1 said:


> considering the most common "complaint" about the build quality is "3-5mm gap between steerer and head tube" and its mate "lower bearing race will not fit on fork" and we have seen time and again people threaten to "rectify" this by sanding it till it fits....


All that was fixed in the last 2 versions of the Chinarello. No problems in that regard with my 2 Chinarello's. Super comfortable to ride and great handling. But check over with a fine tooth comb. Not as good quality build as the real deal (by far).


----------



## cansprint

Suney said:


> I'm interested in buying a fm098 but I noticed there are variations in the frame?
> Some of a more curved head tube while others are more triangular? Even though they are from the same seller. My guess its because of the frame size?
> 
> I asked kathy from dengfu but she said they all the same, just taken from different angle


Looks like its just the different size frames...i have this frame and i really like it!!!!


----------



## aclinjury

redondoaveb said:


> I'm still wondering what the point is?


internet anedotal posting, not to be taken as scientific. 

When a failure such as this happens to a big brand, you can bet that folks will raise the issue up in arms, and usually it will result in the manufacture taking immediate actions to fix the issue (because their brand is at stake), and the public will generally know about it.

Does this same approach going to happen with some cheap Chinese knockoff brand?


----------



## aclinjury

mrcreosote said:


> because this only happens with cheap, Chinese frames.
> 
> Oh, wait......
> 
> http://www.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/pdf/1213TarmacCruxSecteur.pdf
> 
> Safety Recall
> 
> Fox Factory Recalls Evolution Mountain Bike Suspension Forks Due to Fall Hazard | CPSC.gov
> 
> http://www.cervelo.com/Media/docs/recalls/Wolf-SL-Poster.pdf
> 
> http://www.cervelo.com/Media/docs/recalls/poster.pdf



Yes errata will happen to all products at some point. But what you have proven (thank you) is that with the big reputable manufacturers, they will issue recalls and fixes to the problems. Afterall, their brands are at stake.

Can you say the same about the Chinarellos? Or will its manufacturer simply disappear behind the Great Wall of China only to rise again under a differnet name selling thru a different online outlet?


----------



## easyridernyc

RaptorTC said:


> That's why you don't do your Chinese carbon frame shopping from no name sellers on eBay. If you must buy Chinese carbon, places like Hongfu and Dengfu seem to be much highly regarded then a "replica" frame that comes from some random eBay seller.


e bay = no way.


----------



## azpeterb

Just curious....how did they know he lost "a cup of blood"? It would probably have been more accurate to say "a hunka hunka blood" or "a whole mess of blood". Just sayin'.


----------



## ToffieBoi

mrcreosote said:


> because this only happens with cheap, Chinese frames.
> 
> Oh, wait......
> 
> http://www.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/pdf/1213TarmacCruxSecteur.pdf
> 
> Safety Recall
> 
> Fox Factory Recalls Evolution Mountain Bike Suspension Forks Due to Fall Hazard | CPSC.gov
> 
> http://www.cervelo.com/Media/docs/recalls/Wolf-SL-Poster.pdf
> 
> http://www.cervelo.com/Media/docs/recalls/poster.pdf


Difference? 
You send us the recall pages. Recall. They call the fork back because there is a problem.
Because those firms are "good" enough to inspect their products after sale and make a recall if there is any possible fail.

Thanks to them, you don't ride your soon-to-be-fail fork and don't crash on your face


----------



## DaveG

*Anonymity*



aclinjury said:


> Can you say the same about the Chinarellos? Or will its manufacturer simply disappear behind the Great Wall of China only to rise again under a differnet name selling thru a different online outlet?


They can always switch to making baby formula or maybe toothpaste


----------



## aclinjury

DaveG said:


> They can always switch to making baby formula or maybe toothpaste


You know, Walmart is huge hit with Chinese consumers in China. We in the States may mock and make fun of Walmart stuff, but in China, Walmart is seen as reputable. Chinese consumers China trust Walmart because Walmart runs a tight quality control process (relative to what the rest of the sellers are selling in China!). 
This just goes to show the epic magnitude of shoddy products over there. I mean, the shoddy products and practices of making those products are so well-known over there that even the official Chinese state run newspaper Xinhua doesn't even bother to sugarcoat anything anymore.

Putting plastic product in baby formula, causing a 3 month old baby to develop kidney stones.. are you kidding me.


----------



## Rainerhq

ICAN is selling newer version of AC039, called AERO007.
Somebody already purchased it?
New 58cm UD Matt Full Carbon Aero Road Bike Frame Integrated Seatpost Fork | eBay

2014 High Quality carbon frame road bicycle,T700 carbon lightweight aero road bike carbon frame, View High Quality carbon frame road bicycle, ICAN Product Details from Shenzhen Ican Sports Equipment Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com


----------



## knowone201

I'm wondering if there is a Chinese frame FM069, FM066SL, or etc can support an aluminum seat post. I would like the freedom to added an Topeak beam bike rack from time to time and don't think a beam bike rack would be good for carbon seat post.


----------



## BikeInCanada

aclinjury said:


> You know, Walmart is huge hit with Chinese consumers in China. We in the States may mock and make fun of Walmart stuff, but in China, Walmart is seen as reputable. Chinese consumers China trust Walmart because Walmart runs a tight quality control process (relative to what the rest of the sellers are selling in China!).
> This just goes to show the epic magnitude of shoddy products over there. I mean, the shoddy products and practices of making those products are so well-known over there that even the official Chinese state run newspaper Xinhua doesn't even bother to sugarcoat anything anymore.
> 
> Putting plastic product in baby formula, causing a 3 month old baby to develop kidney stones.. are you kidding me.


Your entire quote precludes the possibility that China can make good products. Which is baseless.


----------



## ptsbike55

Yawn. This is a worn out discussion. You either want the frame or you don't. There are enough posts on these forums to make an informed decision.


----------



## jorisdw

Does anyone have experiences with the FM069 from hongfu? How does it compare to the FM066sl which is according to some people a bit to harsh to ride. I'm looking for a light and stiff climber but without compromising the ride quality too much. I'm a lightweight (68kg). Any advise will be welcome!!


----------



## cansprint

jorisdw said:


> Does anyone have experiences with the FM069 from hongfu? How does it compare to the FM066sl which is according to some people a bit to harsh to ride. I'm looking for a light and stiff climber but without compromising the ride quality too much. I'm a lightweight (68kg). Any advise will be welcome!!


Dengfu FM098 ENG BB great frame! Stiff and comfortable...not the lightest but that's a good thing.
Cheers!


----------



## redstarcap

jorisdw said:


> Does anyone have experiences with the FM069 from hongfu? How does it compare to the FM066sl which is according to some people a bit to harsh to ride. I'm looking for a light and stiff climber but without compromising the ride quality too much. I'm a lightweight (68kg). Any advise will be welcome!!


If you worry about ride quality, you can change ur wheelset to 32H or 28H, it rides a lot better than 24/20H but little bit heavier. Also, changing ur tire to 25c can damp the rough road surface very well. It's not all about the frame


----------



## wheeliedave

Alaska Mike said:


> I seem to recall George Hincapie going down for a similar reason during Paris-Roubaix.


George had crashed earlier in the race, cracking the steerer tube. He chose not to take another bicycle for fear of losing to much time to the leaders. Later in the race the cracked steerer tube failed. Leaving George broken by the side of the road. One take away if you crash do not assume everything is "ok" by looks alone. I understand his decesion as that is what a professional must do to win.


----------



## euro-trash

Does anyone have experience with the house brand bikes being sold by Merlin cycles in the UK? their 'evolution' looks nice. I'm guessing someone here might have the generic frame and could provide some feedback. Thanks!


----------



## pushstart

Finished my Yishun FM145 build that I started back in Oct.








I had remorse on the gray bar tape later and switched it for black last night  

Got it out for a short (~15mile) ride this afternoon. Very pleased. It weighs a little more than a non-disc build would (17 lbs 4oz / 7.83kg) but ride is fantastic. Maybe a little softer in rear triangle than the Motobecane LeChampion CF it replaced but seems equally stiff in BB and front end is much stiffer (probably using 9mm thru-bolt is a factor too).


----------



## glepore

It should be routed beside the rd cable - that's what the second slot is for.

23's are fine on a Firecrest, but you'll get a nicer ride, can run lower pressures and have the same rolling resistance (or less) with 25's.


----------



## InBlack

Anyone know what model this bike frame is? Just trying to do some research and I'm not sure if this one is worth my time.


----------



## fronesis

*Time to Ask for Advice*

Hello everyone – I've been reading this thread and many others for a long while now, but this is my first post. I'm planning to build up a bike for the summer, strongly considering getting a carbon frame direct from China. But to make my final choice I'd really appreciate the collective wisdom and advice of the forum.

Background info: I'm relatively new to cycling, but was in good cardio shape before I started. I'm now riding 100 to 200 miles every week, mostly solo rides of 40 to 60 miles (16-17mph, and 2000 to 4000 feet of climbing), with a monthly group ride of over 100 miles. I'm 42, 5'10", 142lbs. 

I am extremely flexible, and I have a VERY long torso and VERY short legs. Thus, I need an effective top tube of about 57cm, and I can't really ride a bike without a sloping top tube or compact geometry because most bikes with a 57-58 eTT and an old-school square geometry are too tall for me to stand over. This rules out a lot of frames for me.

I currently have a Soma Smoothie in size "58" (55 st and 57 eTT) and a Pedalforce RS2 in "55" (55 st and 57 eTT). I've put about 2000 miles on the pedalforce this fall and I love it. It fits me extremely well, is stiff but comfortable. 

I need a bike for the west coast where I'll be living in the summer, while leaving my RS2 here. Whatever frame I choose I will build up with Campy 11s (chorus or record) and probably campy Zonda wheels. 

I'm trying to decide among these:


another RS2
I love the bike and it's only $650 for the frameset. I also like buying from the pedalforce guys in Vermont, with an easy contact if anything goes wrong. 
The cons here are that A) I already own this bike and want to try something new, B) it's about an 8 year old design now, C) I wouldn't mind having internal routing, and D) there are many china direct bikes that are lighter and cheaper
Dengfu FM-098
Looks like this bike will fit me well (i've tinkered with the stack and reach calculators). It would be neat to try an aero bike. It seems to be a "proven" china direct model from a proven distributor. The cons are that it's fairly heavy for a china direct carbon bike, and I worry it might be *too* stiff for my needs (I plan to do a number of long rides this summer, including the 210 mile Seattle to Portland ride)
Zhongwei 026, through velobuild
On paper this bike fits me great, and it's very light. There also seems to be some "backup safety" in going through velobuild. My worries are that there are almost no reviews on it.
Zhongwei 016, was the iPlay 306, through velobuild
Also looks like a good fit and a good all-around bike, though perhaps too geared toward climbing. My worry is that I don't know what happened to get iPlay booted off of velobuild, and some folks seemed to have problems with the FD rivets on the frame.

There are plenty of other great bikes out there, but once the ST length starts getting above 550 or 560, then I worry that I can't stand over the bike. I'm looking for a good all-around bike. I love to climb and I want something comfortable for long rides. I will NOT be doing any racing, but I appreciate a stiff bike.

Any advice, suggestions, recommendations, choices from the above list or things I'm missing would all be greatly appreciated!


----------



## ZachUA

InBlack said:


> Anyone know what model this bike frame is? Just trying to do some research and I'm not sure if this one is worth my time.
> View attachment 291275


Can you find any pics of the seat stay? It looks kind of like a pedal force qs3 frame but I can't tell if there is an opening above where the two seat stays connect (the qs3 does have an opening there).


----------



## bomfimfelipe

Hi, has anyone bought the complete bike from Dengfu? I am talking with Tina Chen.
Is it worth it? I am interested in buying the FM098 full complete carbon road racing bike. Thanks!!!


----------



## bugly64

Can anyone identify this frame? It's a Flyxii.


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## redmr2_man

bugly64 said:


> Can anyone identify this frame? It's a Flyxii.


that squared up front d clamp location is textbook hong/dengfu fm066


----------



## kngr8

Yes is a Flyxii bike model FLX-FR-322


----------



## 00Garza

bomfimfelipe said:


> Hi, has anyone bought the complete bike from Dengfu? I am talking with Tina Chen.
> Is it worth it? I am interested in buying the *FM098 full complete carbon road racing bike. Thanks!!!*


You don't get a whole lot of savings buying a complete bike from China. For what you'd pay, you could get a similar or even better spec'd bike from reputable companies that would offer way better customer service post sale. Planet X and Merlincycles come to mind. Shop around online and you can find pretty good deals.

If your heart is set on it, you have the cash, or just want it because its different...then go right ahead.

If I were you, I'd buy the frame Dengfu, the groupset/wheels from Merlin or Ribble, then find a local shop or tech to put it together for you professionally.


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## takmanjapan

Looks like the Performance Scattante CFR aka Flyxii FR-303 (and matches the geometry chart). No gap in the monostay junction just above the rear brake mount.

http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1136437_-1_400759__400759



ZachUA said:


> Can you find any pics of the seat stay? It looks kind of like a pedal force qs3 frame but I can't tell if there is an opening above where the two seat stays connect (the qs3 does have an opening there).


----------



## skitorski

kngr8 said:


> Yes is a Flyxii bike model FLX-FR-322


Flyxii FR-322 = HongFu/DengFu fm066 ?? Right ???? Or, almost ? :aureola:Thanks !!


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## pushstart

skitorski said:


> Flyxii FR-322 = HongFu/DengFu fm066 ?? Right ???? Or, almost ? :aureola:Thanks !!


It does look like an FM066. Supposedly the Flybike factory is the one that supplies Hongfu, DENGFU, Flyxii and others. I don't know if this is officially acknowledged anywhere. I guess these resellers have some input on the frame designs, though, since they are definitely not all the same. (E.g. the flyxii disc brake road frame is different geometry than the FM166 or FM079.)


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## Mr.Habanero

R-029 Saiph!


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## InBlack

Oh that's definitely it, so it's an FR-303.
Thanks!!


----------



## horvatht

I changed out the Yoeleo climbing wheels for the Yoeleo lightweight 50 mm. 
Because of my weight I kept breaking spokes. The bike is a Cannaondale Evo HM. 
With the 50mm wheels the bike is still light at 13.5 pounds. This bike is stiff and very comfortable on long rides.


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## chromese5

Man these are nice rides. I've been contemplating on purchasing gotobike's new WS03 to replace my older trek madone 5.2
















Seems like gotobike is a decent vendor.


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## fronesis

Has anyone purchased from user "etatime" on eBay? Seems to be selling flybike framesets for excellent prices with great feedback.


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## ptsbike55

Not many posts lately.


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## Mr.Habanero

Nope, its been pretty bleak..


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## bvber

Polar vortex.


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## RaptorTC

Too snowy/cold outside to take the new Chinese carbon steed out for pics.


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## nyanyin

Veri good bike


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## boanerges

*HongFu FM069*









Frame: FM069 56cm BB30 Matt UD
Headset: Neco + Kapz cap
Bars: Richey WCS Carbon 40cm
Stem: Easton EC90 SL Stem 120mm x 31.8mm Carbon
Seatpost: Easton EC90 Zero Carbon 27.2 x 400mm
Saddle: Fizik Arione CX Carbon braided
Chainset: SRAM Red 172.5 mm + Rotor Aero Q-Rings 50/34 + KCNC bolts
Pedals: Shimano Ultegra 6800 Carbon
FD: SRAM Red 2012
RD: SRAM Red 2012
Jockey wheels: SRAM Std.
Bottom Bracket: SRAM BB30 Red Ceramic
Chain: SRAM PC1091R
Cassette: Shimano Dura Ace/Ultegra 12-30
Cables: SRAM Gore Ride On
Brakes: SRAM Red + Swissstop Blue BXP pads
Levers: SRAM Red
Wheels: H Son Architype + Chris King R45 hubs
Tyres: Schwalbe Ultremo Tubeless 23mm
Tubes: Stans Fluid
Bottle cages: Elite Custom Race + Titanium screws
Bar tape: Fizik Microtex
Gear barrel adjuster: SRAM Red
Seatpost clamp: Token TK161
Garmin mount: RaceWare Direct
Chain catcher: SRAM
Total weight: 15.04

Hongfu FM069 I built last year. I'm 66kg and have owned an FM015 for a couple of years. The FM069 is about 1lb lighter than my FM015. Both bike ride and climb great.


----------



## horvatht

boanerges said:


> View attachment 291894
> 
> 
> Frame: FM069 56cm BB30 Matt UD
> Headset: Neco + Kapz cap
> Bars: Richey WCS Carbon 40cm
> Stem: Easton EC90 SL Stem 120mm x 31.8mm Carbon
> Seatpost: Easton EC90 Zero Carbon 27.2 x 400mm
> Saddle: Fizik Arione CX Carbon braided
> Chainset: SRAM Red 172.5 mm + Rotor Aero Q-Rings 50/34 + KCNC bolts
> Pedals: Shimano Ultegra 6800 Carbon
> FD: SRAM Red 2012
> RD: SRAM Red 2012
> Jockey wheels: SRAM Std.
> Bottom Bracket: SRAM BB30 Red Ceramic
> Chain: SRAM PC1091R
> Cassette: Shimano Dura Ace/Ultegra 12-30
> Cables: SRAM Gore Ride On
> Brakes: SRAM Red + Swissstop Blue BXP pads
> Levers: SRAM Red
> Wheels: H Son Architype + Chris King R45 hubs
> Tyres: Schwalbe Ultremo Tubeless 23mm
> Tubes: Stans Fluid
> Bottle cages: Elite Custom Race + Titanium screws
> Bar tape: Fizik Microtex
> Gear barrel adjuster: SRAM Red
> Seatpost clamp: Token TK161
> Garmin mount: RaceWare Direct
> Chain catcher: SRAM
> Total weight: 15.04
> 
> Hongfu FM069 I built last year. I'm 66kg and have owned an FM015 for a couple of years. The FM069 is about 1lb lighter than my FM015. Both bike ride and climb great.


Nice bike thanks for sharing love the detail.


----------



## myhui

*Farsports tubular 50mm shows cracks in the weave*

The weave has separated at some of the places where they cross over.

Notice the much darker shades to the right of the label on the first photo and to the right of the spoon on the second photo.

But that area of the wheel still feels very rigid and I've not noticed any further deterioration.

Did I cause this when I rode a few meters on a flat tire? This is on the inside of the tubular wheel, so it doesn't normally contact the pavement even if I ride it with a flat tire. But I can't be sure whether it has always been like this or not.


----------



## DaveT

IMO? Poor quality construction.


----------



## RaptorTC

Nice glue job on those tubulars. I see you took extra precaution for safety...


----------



## myhui

I use Tufo tape, so all the glue comes off when the tape comes off, leaving the rims as clean as new. You get that if you peel off the tape very slowly, and scrap the remaining glue blobs off with your fingernails.

I just went for a ride, and the Tufo tubular tires stopped my 164 lbs body plus 14 lbs bicycle from 30mph to 0 in less than five seconds, and I went around a corner at 20mph, knowing full well that it's far less thrilling than skiing downhill at 85mph. Both front and rear tires are Tufo, mounted with tape. The tires are so grippy that I'm sold on them for life, unless they change the formula and the tires become less grippy.

I don't know why some of you guys find those tires perform so poorly. _Maybe you don't know how to ride your bicycle properly_.


----------



## GoldenR

Picked up a new stem and narrower bars to get my fit dialed in and went out for some photos on my way to a crit today.

Taiwan Carbon by Golden Photography, on Flickr


----------



## ChevyDK

Nice shot! What holds your bike while shooting?


----------



## happylandings

Hello all, I've been trying to find a disc frame that will take larger cross or smaller 29er tires. Can anyone who has one of the Chinese disc cross frames comment on what the largest tire is that would fit? I really like the looks of the FM059 but like the FR-602 as well. It seems to be really rare to find a good photo showing the clearances in the chain stays. I'm wanting to build a gravel race bike and really like tires around 45c. Thanks!


----------



## GoldenR

ChevyDK said:


> Nice shot! What holds your bike while shooting?


Thank you! I cheated, its sitting on my helmet and i photoshoped it out. I want to make a pedal stand at some point, just need to find the right mterial to bend it out of.


----------



## Red90

I've been lurking on this thread for a while thinking I may eventually want to build one of these.

Something I noticed on a lot of the builds I've seen here. People tend to buy the frame, fork and headset, but not the seatpost, stem or handlebars from hongfu or dengfu. People tend to go back to the mainstream brands for those parts. Is there a reasoning for that? Are the hongfu/dengfu stems and bars not good? Given the price point I figured I'd try to save some money on those parts as well.


----------



## fronesis

Red90 said:


> I've been lurking on this thread for a while thinking I may eventually want to build one of these.
> 
> Something I noticed on a lot of the builds I've seen here. People tend to buy the frame, fork and headset, but not the seatpost, stem or handlebars from hongfu or dengfu. People tend to go back to the mainstream brands for those parts. Is there a reasoning for that? Are the hongfu/dengfu stems and bars not good? Given the price point I figured I'd try to save some money on those parts as well.


I can't speak for others, but in my case the answers are as follows:
1) I'm not convinced by carbon stems. The wait savings is very small; some folks have had problems with the quality of the carbon, especially around the screws. I can get a good, light Alu stem on eBay for $25.
2) Some carbon bars are very light (around 200g) but most of the china direct carbon bars are more like 250g or more. Here again: I can get Alu handlebars on eBay that weigh less than 300g (maybe as low as 235g) and are very stiff and strong and reliable - and I can spend anywhere from $80 down to $25 if I find a deal. I also really like the "flared" bars that FSA, T3 and other sell (drops are wider than hoods), and I'm not sure about the dimensions on the china direct bars.


----------



## ChevyDK

I bought seatpost, handlebar/stem from Greatkeenbike for me and my friend. I weigh in at 92kg and my friend around 115kg and everything is stil Nice and stiff after some 10k km riding in all terrain types.


----------



## fronesis

*How to Spot on eBay fake?*

I'm looking for bars and stem for my new build (Flyxii FR-315), and I've found a seller on eBay advertising genuine 3T ergnonova carbon bars for $85. The price seems _almost_ too good to be true, but the seller has a PERFECT 100% feedback rating, including numerous positives from recent buyers of these 3T bars. He's been selling on eBay for almost a year and has a HUGE amount of feedback; again, all positive. 

I can't see any way that the feedback could be faked, so either his bars are fakes, but they are so good that of all the people that buy them, no one notices or cares...or they are genuine. Here's a link to the ad; I'd be grateful for anyone's perspective...

2013 3T Ergonova Team Carbon Road Bike Integrated Handlebar | eBay


----------



## RaptorTC

The cheapest I found them anywhere else was $250. I think $85 definitely does seem too good to be true.


----------



## tihsepa

RaptorTC said:


> The cheapest I found them anywhere else was $250. I think $85 definitely does seem too good to be true.


Yah, everything that guy has sold is fake.
The feedback is good because they are 85 dollar bars that are good looking fakes of the real thing.


----------



## fronesis

tihsepa said:


> Yah, everything that guy has sold is fake.
> The feedback is good because they are 85 dollar bars that are good looking fakes of the real thing.


Thanks, that's helpful. I'd actually happily pay $85 for off-brand carbon bars in the same shape as the 3T ergonova, even if they are a little heavier, but as long as they are well-built. 

But I don't want to really want to buy a counterfeit. So I think I'd buy his bars if he didn't falsely claim they were 3T.

I wonder how this seller stays in business – does 3T not care that he's selling things with their name?


----------



## Red90

Question with regards to ordering from Hongfu

I got a quotation for all the stuff I want including shipping and they said they take paypal. However the email account they want to send money to paypal seems to be like a personal account. It doesn't have any hongfu email address. The person that was emailing me back was named Cody and he gave me an email address of [email protected] This usually makes me suspicious to say the least since it still is several hundred dollars worth of value.

Just wondering what everyone else's experience is with the payment or if I'm just being overly cautious.

Also, does anyone have any close up pics of a matte undirectional carbon fiber? I'm thinking of getting the FM069 and it only comes in that finish.


----------



## ms6073

happylandings said:


> I really like the looks of the FM059 but like the FR-602 as well.


You might want to add the Xiamen iPlay IP-105-D to that list.



happylandings said:


> I'm wanting to build a gravel race bike and really like tires around 45c.


Wife and I have the IP-105-D referenced above and are currently running Scwalbe Sammy Slick 700x35c on Enve XCTwenty9 wheels and could probably get a 40c tire on there but other than a 29er or custom, I doubt you will find a cross frame that can take a 45c tire.


----------



## mrcreosote

Red90 said:


> Question with regards to ordering from Hongfu
> 
> I got a quotation for all the stuff I want including shipping and they said they take paypal. However the email account they want to send money to paypal seems to be like a personal account. It doesn't have any hongfu email address. The person that was emailing me back was named Cody and he gave me an email address of [email protected] This usually makes me suspicious to say the least since it still is several hundred dollars worth of value.
> 
> Just wondering what everyone else's experience is with the payment or if I'm just being overly cautious.
> 
> Also, does anyone have any close up pics of a matte undirectional carbon fiber? I'm thinking of getting the FM069 and it only comes in that finish.


Hongfu Contact page
Contact Us


----------



## spaakie

fronesis said:


> I'm looking for bars and stem for my new build (Flyxii FR-315), and I've found a seller on eBay advertising genuine 3T ergnonova carbon bars for $85. The price seems _almost_ too good to be true, but the seller has a PERFECT 100% feedback rating, including numerous positives from recent buyers of these 3T bars. He's been selling on eBay for almost a year and has a HUGE amount of feedback; again, all positive.
> 
> I can't see any way that the feedback could be faked, so either his bars are fakes, but they are so good that of all the people that buy them, no one notices or cares...or they are genuine. Here's a link to the ad; I'd be grateful for anyone's perspective...
> 
> 2013 3T Ergonova Team Carbon Road Bike Integrated Handlebar | eBay


The 3T handlebar from the Ebay link is 80% fake. On ebay there is comming up more and more fake cyclingparts (most,pinarello,san marco, zipp, bora, 3T, Time, colnago, chipolini). 

Nothing to do about, but when you spot a bargain to good to be true it's fake.. Even cyclingproducts.


----------



## sanrensho

spaakie said:


> The 3T handlebar from the Ebay link is 80% fake. On ebay there is comming up more and more fake cyclingparts (most,pinarello,san marco, zipp, bora, 3T, Time, colnago, chipolini).
> 
> Nothing to do about, but when you spot a bargain to good to be true it's fake.. Even cyclingproducts.


No, it's 100% fake. China direct seller and a price that is too good to be true. Those fake 3T bars are all over AliExpress.


----------



## DanBell78

Red90 said:


> Question with regards to ordering from Hongfu
> 
> I got a quotation for all the stuff I want including shipping and they said they take paypal. However the email account they want to send money to paypal seems to be like a personal account. It doesn't have any hongfu email address. The person that was emailing me back was named Cody and he gave me an email address of [email protected] This usually makes me suspicious to say the least since it still is several hundred dollars worth of value.
> 
> Just wondering what everyone else's experience is with the payment or if I'm just being overly cautious.
> 
> Also, does anyone have any close up pics of a matte undirectional carbon fiber? I'm thinking of getting the FM069 and it only comes in that finish.


I'm used the codychao address when I bought my FM066. I agree it was a little worrisome seeing as it looked like just a personal address, but everything went fine.

I don't have any close up pics of the UD finish on my bike, but it's a very clean and uniform UD, not a lot of waviness to it.


----------



## Red90

DanBell78 said:


> I'm used the codychao address when I bought my FM066. I agree it was a little worrisome seeing as it looked like just a personal address, but everything went fine.
> 
> I don't have any close up pics of the UD finish on my bike, but it's a very clean and uniform UD, not a lot of waviness to it.


Thanks, I just didn't want to purchase, send money and not hear anything after that. It would be a pain to try to chase up after a company in china with no real representation here.


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## rscrant

Hi fronesis,
Steer clear of any Zhongwei parts. They are cheap and flimsy and many customers have complained and returned them. Any posts about their poor quality are deleted which is why you won't find many reviews online about them. Go with the Dengfu.



fronesis said:


> Hello everyone – I've been reading this thread and many others for a long while now, but this is my first post. I'm planning to build up a bike for the summer, strongly considering getting a carbon frame direct from China. But to make my final choice I'd really appreciate the collective wisdom and advice of the forum.
> 
> Background info: I'm relatively new to cycling, but was in good cardio shape before I started. I'm now riding 100 to 200 miles every week, mostly solo rides of 40 to 60 miles (16-17mph, and 2000 to 4000 feet of climbing), with a monthly group ride of over 100 miles. I'm 42, 5'10", 142lbs.
> 
> I am extremely flexible, and I have a VERY long torso and VERY short legs. Thus, I need an effective top tube of about 57cm, and I can't really ride a bike without a sloping top tube or compact geometry because most bikes with a 57-58 eTT and an old-school square geometry are too tall for me to stand over. This rules out a lot of frames for me.
> 
> I currently have a Soma Smoothie in size "58" (55 st and 57 eTT) and a Pedalforce RS2 in "55" (55 st and 57 eTT). I've put about 2000 miles on the pedalforce this fall and I love it. It fits me extremely well, is stiff but comfortable.
> 
> I need a bike for the west coast where I'll be living in the summer, while leaving my RS2 here. Whatever frame I choose I will build up with Campy 11s (chorus or record) and probably campy Zonda wheels.
> 
> I'm trying to decide among these:
> 
> 
> another RS2
> I love the bike and it's only $650 for the frameset. I also like buying from the pedalforce guys in Vermont, with an easy contact if anything goes wrong.
> The cons here are that A) I already own this bike and want to try something new, B) it's about an 8 year old design now, C) I wouldn't mind having internal routing, and D) there are many china direct bikes that are lighter and cheaper
> Dengfu FM-098
> Looks like this bike will fit me well (i've tinkered with the stack and reach calculators). It would be neat to try an aero bike. It seems to be a "proven" china direct model from a proven distributor. The cons are that it's fairly heavy for a china direct carbon bike, and I worry it might be *too* stiff for my needs (I plan to do a number of long rides this summer, including the 210 mile Seattle to Portland ride)
> Zhongwei 026, through velobuild
> On paper this bike fits me great, and it's very light. There also seems to be some "backup safety" in going through velobuild. My worries are that there are almost no reviews on it.
> Zhongwei 016, was the iPlay 306, through velobuild
> Also looks like a good fit and a good all-around bike, though perhaps too geared toward climbing. My worry is that I don't know what happened to get iPlay booted off of velobuild, and some folks seemed to have problems with the FD rivets on the frame.
> 
> There are plenty of other great bikes out there, but once the ST length starts getting above 550 or 560, then I worry that I can't stand over the bike. I'm looking for a good all-around bike. I love to climb and I want something comfortable for long rides. I will NOT be doing any racing, but I appreciate a stiff bike.
> 
> Any advice, suggestions, recommendations, choices from the above list or things I'm missing would all be greatly appreciated!


----------



## fronesis

rscrant said:


> Hi fronesis,
> Steer clear of any Zhongwei parts. They are cheap and flimsy and many customers have complained and returned them. Any posts about their poor quality are deleted which is why you won't find many reviews online about them. Go with the Dengfu.


Thanks for the reply, and the warning. I hadn't heard this, but it is consistent with the fact that it was SO hard to find many reviews at all on Zhongwei frames.

I went with a flyxii bike, which DO have lots of good reviews are are reportedly made in the same factory as dengfu and hongfu bikes. The frameset came in FOUR days. 

There was a tiny bit of cosmetic chipping of the finish on the top of one of the chainstays. I and my LBS look at it and confirm what I thought – solely cosmetic. But I'm now wondering whether it's worth it to ask the flyxii people to compensate me for the cosmetic damage. I should get some better pictures and post them here to see what people think.


----------



## 00Garza

fronesis said:


> Thanks for the reply, and the warning. I hadn't heard this, but it is consistent with the fact that it was SO hard to find many reviews at all on Zhongwei frames.
> 
> I went with a flyxii bike, which DO have lots of good reviews are are reportedly made in the same factory as dengfu and hongfu bikes. The frameset came in FOUR days.
> 
> There was a tiny bit of cosmetic chipping of the finish on the top of one of the chainstays. I and my LBS look at it and confirm what I thought – solely cosmetic. But I'm now wondering whether it's worth it to ask the flyxii people to compensate me for the cosmetic damage. I should get some better pictures and post them here to see what people think.


I have the Zhongwei R-002 frame and it has treated me well. I also ordered a seatpost from them, and it is functional, but nothing special. Heavy by carbon fiber standards. I have also heard rumblings about some of their other parts, so I went with aluminum stem and bars.


----------



## BikeInCanada

I'm in the process of building up an R002 for this spring so I'll give my thoughts after first ride.


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## bugly64

Should be ready tomorrow. It's a Flyxii FLX-FR-322.


----------



## bugly64

Just got it home. It weighs 16.08 lbs. Tomorrow I am going to take it to the world's smallest mountain range.


----------



## Ashbringer

bugly64 said:


> Just got it home. It weighs 16.08 lbs. Tomorrow I am going to take it to the world's smallest mountain range.


yup,nice bike it looks.
and what the difference is between FR-321 and FR-322?
could you show us more pic about the frame inside? cause i know few about Flyxii, the quality of their frames is okay?


----------



## bugly64

I don't know the difference between the two frames. I didn't take any pics of the inside of the frame. I think the quality is very good. I'm very happy with this frame.


----------



## Ashbringer

bugly64 said:


> I don't know the difference between the two frames. I didn't take any pics of the inside of the frame. I think the quality is very good. I'm very happy with this frame.


well,thx!
anyway,here's a pic from a chinese frame,Kung Gray Shadow.







it looks quite smooth inside. i have no idea about the crafts of those non-named chinese carbon frames.
i am going to get such a frame,i just try to get more information about them.
truth to be told, i live here,Guangdong province,China. most of those frames are made here,but i know little about them.cause many guys here do not like those frames,they think they are not safe enough to ride on road.that could be traced back to earlier years when many fake pinarello frame crashed.


----------



## myhui

Ashbringer said:


> truth to be told, i live here,Guangdong province,China. most of those frames are made here,but i know little about them.cause many guys here do not like those frames,they think they are not safe enough to ride on road.that could be traced back to earlier years when many fake pinarello frame crashed.


This must be a classic case of the sausage maker's family refusing to eat their own products?


----------



## BikeInCanada

myhui said:


> This must be a classic case of the sausage maker's family refusing to eat their own products?



Wait. Let me get this straight. YOU, of all people, is calling someone ELSE out?

Wow. That's ballsy man haha


----------



## myhui

BikeInCanada said:


> Wait. Let me get this straight. YOU, of all people, is calling someone ELSE out?
> 
> Wow. That's ballsy man haha


My Canadian grade school teachers taught me to always be objective in these matters.


----------



## Ilias.tri

Hello, I ordered the rfm105 spv14 from great keen bikes a month ago. Ten days later the page of the bike was removed from aliexpress. I send email to jerry gk many times and he answered me that he will send the bike as soon as possible. There are 16 days left to make the shipment and I think they are kidding me. What shall I do ? Can you help me? I paied 599 dollars.


----------



## Ilias.tri

I think I will have problems with refund. now jerry gk told me to wait 2 more days . Let's see. Greece


----------



## ac/bc

*Any group buys?*

Anyone hear about any group buys? I'd like to get involved or set one up but don't know where to start.


----------



## beston

Ilias.tri said:


> Hello, I ordered the rfm105 spv14 from great keen bikes a month ago. Ten days later the page of the bike was removed from aliexpress. I send email to jerry gk many times and he answered me that he will send the bike as soon as possible. There are 16 days left to make the shipment and I think they are kidding me. What shall I do ? Can you help me? I paied 599 dollars.


I ordered an RFM 105 from Great Keen about a month ago. I got a matte black frame (no paint / labels). Great keen got the bike shipped out in a week and then it took another week to get to me.

It sucks to hear that they are taking so long with your frame. I imagine that you placed the order during / just before Chinese NewYear, which is about a two week celebration over in China. Nothing gets done (or shipped out) during that time. I'm actually not surprised to hear that your order hasn't shipped.

It's fairly common to have products removed and reposted from Aliexpress, so I wouldn't be too concerned about that.

...Simply trying to cancel your order 'may' not work. The seller still has the right to refuse the cancellation. 

As for the frame, I'm generally happy with it. But do yourself a favour and go to your local Specialized dealer and get a spare set of internal cable stops. The 'ICSs' that they send with the frame are crap.


----------



## biketowork

I tried to buy a bike frame on Aliexpress and there was a popup message saying that because of legal issue with the US the system prevented me from adding item in the basket to purchase. Has anybody experienced this problem?


----------



## Ashbringer

cause to Chinese Spring Festival,the vocation could be quite long,more than 2 weeks,20 day to a month.most of them got back to work after 15th Feb.I know this well,cause i am in China.

and sometime when the size you ordered was not available,it would take about 15-20 days more.

by the way,my english is quite poor,so i can cot express my meaning well enough sometimes.lol


----------



## NYC_CAAD

Great thread we have here. I as well ordered a RFM-301 all black carbon frame from dhgate. Wonderful seller with whom i'm dealing with. Where are guys buying the "Dogma 65.1" (2014 seat clamp and headset cone?


----------



## Ashbringer

NYC_CAAD said:


> Great thread we have here. I as well ordered a RFM-301 all black carbon frame from dhgate. Wonderful seller with whom i'm dealing with. Where are guys buying the "Dogma 65.1" (2014 seat clamp and headset cone?


it's better to ordered frames from Shenzhen instaed of Xiamen.in fact,most of those carbon frames manufacturers have this Pinarello dogma model,they just name them with another name, of cause,these frames are always not painted. some online-shops may get these bikes from some manufactuers and then paint Dogma 65.1 on them. but these painted frame sold online,it's quite difficult to realized their orgin.and some frames like this painted kind,are quite bad..of cause,not all of them


----------



## NYC_CAAD

Thank you Ashbringer. I totally totally totally!!! forgot about Shenzhen. My seller is joshan1923 from dhgate. Joshan has 421 transactions, 100% Positive Feedback, member as of 2010, premium merchant

Wholesale Carbon Road Bicycle - Buy New 2014 Pina Dogma 65.1 Think 2 813 814 831 833 857 859 860 861 862 881 813 Carbon Road Bike/Bicycle Frame+gift+ by EMS, $498.75 | DHgate



Ashbringer said:


> it's better to ordered frames from Shenzhen instaed of Xiamen.in fact,most of those carbon frames manufacturers have this Pinarello dogma model,they just name them with another name, of cause,these frames are always not painted. some online-shops may get these bikes from some manufactuers and then paint Dogma 65.1 on them. but these painted frame sold online,it's quite difficult to realized their orgin.and some frames like this painted kind,are quite bad..of cause,not all of them


----------



## Ilias.tri

I ordered the 2014 decals and I made the order last days of January . I don't know why they are so late


----------



## Ashbringer

Ilias.tri said:


> I ordered the 2014 decals and I made the order last days of January . I don't know why they are so late


 well,the last day of Jan this year,happened to be the first day of Chinese Spring Festival.that means no one would deal any matters during those days.usually,this vacation lasts to 15 days after,so maybe they got your order at 10th Feb,even later after 15th Feb,that depends.


----------



## mjb152

I built an fm039 a couple of years ago which is still superb, but I'm *thinking* of building an 11 speed di2. Anybody done this yet and advise which frames work best ?
I was looking at the FM139 from hongfu, or maybe an FM069. I'd also consider an FM098 but isn't that model slightly older now ?


----------



## Ashbringer

mjb152 said:


> I built an fm039 a couple of years ago which is still superb, but I'm *thinking* of building an 11 speed di2. Anybody done this yet and advise which frames work best ?
> I was looking at the FM139 from hongfu, or maybe an FM069. I'd also consider an FM098 but isn't that model slightly older now ?


the same as i'm confusing,i wanna got a FM098,i talked to Dengfu days ago,$458 for the frame and another $45 for a matt paint,but i seems this frame is a little heavy,frame(1050g)+fork(390g)+seatpost(200g+),this whole frameset is more than 1600g.a friend of mine has ordered a FM098 from Dengfu,and has not got it yet.

then i talked to Hongfu,FM139 asked for 3000RMB($500)，And this could be the same weight of 098 almostly.

and another frame is a Flyxii FR-321, 2680 RMB($447) for a whole set,and the weight is a little lighter,and this frame's top tube is more horizontal,but the tube is not good-looking as 098


----------



## bugly64

Ashbringer said:


> yup,nice bike it looks.
> and what the difference is between FR-321 and FR-322?
> could you show us more pic about the frame inside? cause i know few about Flyxii, the quality of their frames is okay?


I looked on Flyxii's website and the only difference between the 321 and 322 are the headtubes are different.


----------



## peb307

Just read your post on your Dengfu FM098. I'm looking them now same size, 61cm and was wondering how you like the frame since you've had it for awhile? Can you upload a photo since I haven't seen this frame yet in this size. At 61 cm the shape of the frame is a lot different that all those smaller FM098's you see. Was also wondering how the cable routing under the bottom bracket is working? Any pics of this area would be great as well. Thanks in CT, USA


----------



## evankuhl

I've had my FM028 for two years, haven't had any problems yet and it's been great. I had some people want a follow up review on youtube to go with my first videos. I recently came back here to see what's up, really neat to see the new frames coming out like the FM029 and FM086

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pwaiovJS04


----------



## evankuhl

It's called plastidip, I got it online (dipyourcar.com i think) but it's available in some hardware stores in some colors. 

I'm not sure what he was riding, good question


----------



## dindier

Regarding the Dengfu FM029 road frame, does anyone know the largest tire size the frame can fit? I have been searching through google and have read quite a few threads without any luck.


----------



## fronesis

*ferrules/cable stops/gromments???*

I posted over in the "wrenching" thread, but I'm afraid folks over there think I'm crazy, as their go to solution was to "call the vendor" and that's just not an option here.

I bought a flyxii FR-315 and I'm preparing to build it. I have everything planned out, but I'm not sure what to do about:

1) The holes in the frame for internal cable routing – will the standard di2 grommets work?

2) Inline cable adjusters: BBB, or jagwire, or Shimano, which is most reliable?

3) Anything else I should know before trying to set up the cabling on this?

My main worry is figuring out how to properly make the transition from the cable with housing outside of the frame to the bare cable inside. I need to have a ferrule and a way to block up the big hole in the frame. If the di2 grommets will work, then I think that solves both problems, but if those don't fit then _what do I do?_

thanks...


----------



## ms6073

fronesis said:


> 1) The holes in the frame for internal cable routing – will the standard di2 grommets work?


If you are building with mechanical shifters but the frame only has frame cable port covers for Di2 and not a separate set for mechanical shift cable housings, you are not going to like the answer. The mechanical cable covers are molded to act as stops for the shift cable housing so without those covers, short of upgrading to Di2/EPS, the only way to make it work will probably require running cable housing full length!

happystopMy main worry is figuring out how to properly make the transition from the cable with housing outside of the frame to the bare cable inside. I need to have a ferrule and a way to block up the big hole in the frame. If the di2 grommets will work, then I think that solves both problems, but if those don't fit then _what do I do?_


----------



## fronesis

ms6073 said:


> If you are building with mechanical shifters *but the frame only has frame cable port covers for Di2* and not a separate set for mechanical shift cable housings, you are not going to like the answer. The mechanical cable covers are molded to act as stops for the shift cable housing so without those covers, short of upgrading to Di2/EPS, the only way to make it work will probably require running cable housing full length!


Actually, the frame didn't come with any covers at all. And reading in this thread, that seems to be standard. But the frame DOES come with internal guides of the cable, so I don't think there's any way to run cable housing full length. 

Now I'm really confused. From looking at the various website, it seems like most hongfu/dengfu and flyxii bikes come this way. 

_So I'm wondering what everyone else has done here?_


----------



## fronesis

Now I think I'm wrong: looks like there ARE stops built into the frame, along with internal guides inside. I just couldn't see them at first because they were somewhat recessed inside the frame.


----------



## Ilias.tri

After 45 days of payment seller told me that he will send me the tracking number the next Monday because the ship company is on holidays...so I have two options. The first is to make order dispute and the second is to wait the seller to give me the tracking number. Very big disappointment . This is a joke


----------



## Ilias.tri

4 days remaining for the shipping and jerry gk from aliexpress told me to wait 10 more days.


----------



## Blue Bird

Has anyone actually tried the YCRDF01?



pushstart said:


> (Update: fixing content since this has been merged with the main chinese carbon thread ... )
> 
> Hi folks -
> 
> I wanted to collect links/reiews/etc. related specifically to disc-brake road bikes. I'm interested to see if people have experience with some of the open-mould framesets being offered by Chinese mfrs/distributors.
> 
> So far I have found the following options:
> 
> *Hongfu/Dengfu (Flybike) FM-166 and newer FM-079*
> 
> FM-166 - 2013 Disc brake Road Frame
> FM-079 - 2014 full carbon disc brake road frame
> 
> (Note sure what the difference is between these frames, but haven't studied specs in detail.)
> 
> There is also this Youtube review about the FM166 that seems worth watching: HongFu FM166 Chinese Disc Brake Road Bike Review - YouTube
> 
> Frameset is configured for 140mm rotors front & rear. This has 410mm chainstays, which may be sufficient.
> 
> *Flyxii FLX-FR-320*
> 
> FLYXI
> 
> This appears to be the frame available from many different ebay sellers, mostly only being listed in gloss, though I know that some sizes are available in matte (why do all the listings mispell this as "matt"?).
> 
> This seems to be the cheapest option, under $500 shipped [to USA] on ebay. (I think others are closer to $620-650 after shipping/fees.)
> 
> The one thing that seems concerning about this frame is that 402mm chainstays. That seems very short for a 135mm rear-drop road bike that needs the disc-brake caliper mounted on the chainstay. I can't imagine my heel not hitting that.
> 
> *Yishun FM-145*
> 
> YISHUNBIKE FM145 BB30/BSA 700c DISC BRAKE Carbon Road Racing Frameset [YS-FM145]
> 
> 
> So far this looks the most interesting to me, though I haven't seen any reviews of the frame. Yishun seems to have a generally good reputation, though, and I will say that so far impression working with their customer service is great ([english] language skills are excellent, which really helps).
> 
> Frameset is configured for 140mm rotors front & rear. This frame also has 410mm chainstays.
> 
> *Yoeleo YCRDF01*
> 
> Road Disc Frame - Top Quality Carbon Bike Frames For Sale Yoeleo
> 
> Just found this, and haven't really investigated.
> 
> Any frames that I'm missing? Anyone have any experience they'd like to share with any of these?
> 
> I have some PDF geometries for the FM079 and FM145 frames, but the forum is not letting me upload them (maybe too few posts?).


----------



## nirVELOvana

Ilias.tri said:


> After 45 days of payment seller told me that he will send me the tracking number the next Monday because the ship company is on holidays...so I have two options. The first is to make order dispute and the second is to wait the seller to give me the tracking number. Very big disappointment . This is a joke


Let me guess. This is the first time you've ever bought anything from outside of your country. Am I right? 

If it makes you feel any better, you are in good company (click this to see what I mean; and this).

Also - _as several people in this thread would tell you_ - it is typical for customs agencies to hold on to foreign shipments for several days after they arrive in their country. And don't be suprised if you have to pay your customs people some kind of import duty. So brace yourself for the likelihood of both of those.


----------



## ejbones

For a non-serious rider on a budget, how much stock should I put into buying a tapered 1.125 to 1.25 steertube with a frame? Not that I plan to anytime soon but should I want to replace the fork, it seems like I will be relegated to a handful of selections as opposed to thousands at 1.125 or many hundred at 1.125 to 1.5


----------



## nirVELOvana

ejbones said:


> For a non-serious rider on a budget, how much stock should I put into buying a tapered 1.125 to 1.25 steertube with a frame? Not that I plan to anytime soon but should I want to replace the fork, it seems like I will be relegated to a handful of selections as opposed to thousands at 1.125 or many hundred at 1.125 to 1.5


Doesn't that depend on the answers to certain questions?


Why is such a specific fork size so important to a "_non-serious rider on a budget_?
What kind of riding will you be doing?
Do you understand the pros and cons of the different fork specifications?
What are some of the things that would make you want to switch to a different fork specification?
What is your budget?


----------



## ejbones

I was mainly trying to guage how important getting a standardized head tube should be considered. The two cheapest frames I'm looking at are 1.125 and tapered 1.125 to 1.25. They already come with a fork though and I'm thinking that if my fork breaks then my frame will already be suspect at that point...plus maybe I'm not good enough to notice a difference. On the other side I have read that people claim to feel a difference in the tapered fork. I am a technical person so I understand why. For about $50 more I could get a frame with a more tapered + standard headtube. Is worth it?

I will be doing lots of easy <20 mile jaunts, def some hill rides, maybe easier duathlon biking/running events. Sf Bay area mountains.


<edited for="" clarity=""></edited>


----------



## nirVELOvana

I ride for fun and fitness. I'm not a mechanic by trade. But I'm comfortable enough with the mechanical side of owning a bike to where I've also built up a couple Chinese carbon frames. They both have 1⅛-to-1½ tapered head tubes. They both came with the right forks and headsets that matched the head tubes. Which is a good thing. Because that was two things I was glad I didn't have to worry about. From my own experience, I would call forks "_fit-it-and-forget-it_" kinds of components. OK, maybe the headset bearings needs a regreasing every now and then. But the fork? FORGET ABOUT IT!

Your worry that your fork will break seems peculiar to me. Are you the kind of person that just likes to unnecessarily worry about stuff? Unless you (_or you bike shop_) either REALLY f**k up the installation or you make an effort to intentionally break your fork, then save your worrying for something more worthy.

My understanding of the benefits of tapered head tubes, is they allow that area of the bike to be lighter (_because the smaller end of the taper requires less carbon than a non-tapered one_) yet at the same time it can be just as stiff as a frame/fork with a non-tapered head tube.



ejbones said:


> ...how important getting a standardized head tube should be...


For the type of rider you say you are and for the type of riding you say you would be doing, it is not important AT ALL in my opinion. The reason it's not important - in my opinion - is because with any frame you buy from ebay or alibaba, the parts WILL comply to whatever standard you are worried about. 

It sounds like you are needlessly over-analyzing things to me. If there's a particular bike you've found and it's the right size for you, the right weight for you, the right look for you, and you can afford it; then buy it! 



ejbones said:


> ...$50...Is worth it?


Yes.


----------



## pushstart

So i think the primary advantage is stiffness. I would expect the weight to be greater for tapered since the steerer/headtube gets larger, but perhaps they can use thinner layup? In any event, I wouldn't expect to save or add any significant weight. I cannot compare side-by-side (different frames/forks), but can tell you that my new frame with 1.125-1.5 fork is much stiffer in the front; this is mainly experienced in out-of-saddle climbing. I never thought my previous setup was not stiff, but the new bike feels much different. Does it matter? No. I would not be sad if I has to go back to the previous setup; I doubt it cost me any actual time on a climb. But I do prefer the new stiffer ride.

I would say to avoid the 1.125-1.25 taper, though. There wouldn't be many options there. Personally I think $50 is worth it to get the more standard taper, as it seems that is becoming the standard for road forks. For me, it being a disc-brake road frame, there is basically no option -- all the full carbon disc brake road forks are tapered.

Likely the reason you would want a new fork would be aesthetics or weight-savings. I can't speak for other framesets, but the fork on my YiShun FM145 (AFAIK same fork used on other Hongfu disc-brake framesets) feels extremely solid -- and is a fair bit (~15%) heavier than, say, the Whisky No 9 fork. I am not worried about it breaking. It is also a little annoying that the steerer has a smaller internal diameter (i.e. thicker walls) than typical road forks; I wanted to use a different steerer plug I have, but it doesn't fit.


----------



## horvatht

Has anyone bought a track racing frame from China? 
Very interested in a good track frame. I guess weight is not the biggest factor.


----------



## saad

Hey Guys

Getting back into riding again, and just feel the need to go to Carbon - I have a Cervelo Soloist Team, that I love, but I have the carbon itch!

I was about to purchase a Hong Fu FM066SL with a paintjob, then went onto velobuild and found out that ZhongWei does the bikes they sell - looked them up, and found a new frame which is basically a copy of the Cervelo R5 - had a long chat with Damon from ZhongWei, and he told me they will be ready next month in the size I'm after.

Anyway, turns out that the ZhongWei is a fair bit cheaper than the Hong Fu, and it has the same geometry as an R3/R5 - I've ridden an R3, and loved it, the FM066SL has a shorter head tube, meaning I'd have to run more spacers.

Can anyone vouch for ZhongWei? Everyone on Velobuild seems happy.

Also, I was looking at the Ritte Bosber 3.0, which is a Hong Fu FM015 correct? Does anyone know the difference between the FM066 and the FM015, and which would you choose and why.

Thanks for the help guys.


----------



## DanBell78

saad said:


> Hey Guys
> Can anyone vouch for ZhongWei? Everyone on Velobuild seems happy.


This is because the guy who runs Velobuild has a business relationship with the sellers, specifically Zhongwei. Any negative comments about any of the brands he deals with are deleted and the account gets banned. I have no experience with Zhongwei. They might be a wonderful company to deal with, but basing your decision on the absence of negative feedback on Velobuild is a bad idea.


----------



## saad

DanBell78 said:


> This is because the guy who runs Velobuild has a business relationship with the sellers, specifically Zhongwei. Any negative comments about any of the brands he deals with are deleted and the account gets banned. I have no experience with Zhongwei. They might be a wonderful company to deal with, but basing your decision on the absence of negative feedback on Velobuild is a bad idea.


Thanks

I should also say that i read a lot of positive reviews on Velobuikd (although as you say, business relationship etc), and spoke to them on skype and they were very helpful, told me about their testing and certification etc, and their frames have a weight limit of 150kg (same as hong fu etc).

What has attracted me is that their new bike is basically a copy of the Cervelo R5, and I know that it fits nice and is comfortable to me. Otherwise I was about to buy the FM066SL, as it is also meant to be very comfortable.

It has a BBRIGHT BB, and they will supply be with the adapter to use Shimano cranks too.

With regards to HongFu, Can anyone offer any insight into the difference between the FM066SL and the FM015? 

Cheers


----------



## jerthehair

saad said:


> Hey Guys
> 
> Getting back into riding again, and just feel the need to go to Carbon - I have a Cervelo Soloist Team, that I love, but I have the carbon itch!
> 
> I was about to purchase a Hong Fu FM066SL with a paintjob, then went onto velobuild and found out that ZhongWei does the bikes they sell - looked them up, and found a new frame which is basically a copy of the Cervelo R5 - had a long chat with Damon from ZhongWei, and he told me they will be ready next month in the size I'm after.
> 
> Anyway, turns out that the ZhongWei is a fair bit cheaper than the Hong Fu, and it has the same geometry as an R3/R5 - I've ridden an R3, and loved it, the FM066SL has a shorter head tube, meaning I'd have to run more spacers.
> 
> Can anyone vouch for ZhongWei? Everyone on Velobuild seems happy.
> 
> Also, I was looking at the Ritte Bosber 3.0, which is a Hong Fu FM015 correct? Does anyone know the difference between the FM066 and the FM015, and which would you choose and why.
> 
> Thanks for the help guys.


I had a great experience with Chris at ZhongWei; not so much on VeloBuild but whatever. I bought the RB-026 (Tarmacish flavour)

Emails were answer very prompt and communication was excellent. Frame came packaged very well and paint was far better than I expected. 
Frame in a 56 came in at 899 grams. Bike is super stiff and handles very predictably. This is my 7th open mold build so it went together with no issues. 

Specs:
Full DA9000
Reynolds 46's
Ritchey UD WCS 350mm Post
Ritchey 400mm Evo 3k Bar
Ritchey Classic Polished 110mm stem (ti hardware)
Spec S-Works Toupe 143mm Saddle
Ultremo ZX 23mm
Ultegra 6800 pedals


----------



## saad

jerthehair said:


> I had a great experience with Chris at ZhongWei; not so much on VeloBuild but whatever. I bought the RB-026 (Tarmacish flavour)
> 
> Emails were answer very prompt and communication was excellent. Frame came packaged very well and paint was far better than I expected.
> Frame in a 56 came in at 899 grams. Bike is super stiff and handles very predictably. This is my 7th open mold build so it went together with no issues.
> 
> Specs:
> Full DA9000
> Reynolds 46's
> Ritchey UD WCS 350mm Post
> Ritchey 400mm Evo 3k Bar
> Ritchey Classic Polished 110mm stem (ti hardware)
> Spec S-Works Toupe 143mm Saddle
> Ultremo ZX 23mm
> Ultegra 6800 pedals
> 
> View attachment 293291


Looks awesome, I too was looking at getting a paint job similar to the ritte bikes. Any problems at all?


----------



## jerthehair

saad said:


> Looks awesome, I too was looking at getting a paint job similar to the ritte bikes. Any problems at all?


Nope, I sent him the Pantone paint codes I wanted and he sent pics after it was done. Its was cheaper going direct than through Velomall also - almost $80 less. Tiny blemish on the underside edge of the BB shell, but otherwise it looks as good as any other high end frameset.


----------



## saad

jerthehair said:


> Nope, I sent him the Pantone paint codes I wanted and he sent pics after it was done. Its was cheaper going direct than through Velomall also - almost $80 less. Tiny blemish on the underside edge of the BB shell, but otherwise it looks as good as any other high end frameset.


Brilliant. Might have to get one then. The R5 clone just looks too awesome. The FM066SL is great, and hong fu are great, but the new frame loosk awesome. Hong Fu also seem limited with the colours they can provide, they sent me some samples and said this is the only purple they can do, for instance.


----------



## saad

Has anyone ridded the FM069? Apparently same weight as the FM066SL

And whats the geometry like on the FM066? Is it aggressive, or relaxed? Comparing to a Cervelo R3, it has a shorter headtube, and slightly more reach


----------



## asianarnold1

*BLUE DRAGON fm098*

Hi all
i've been reading these threads for years and helped my buddy order his fm015 with custom paint. I finally took the plunge after gathering funds. My style of riding is the usual saturday hammerfest fast and flat rides with 30-50 riders on a nice day. So my bike needs are aero. 

I went with a subtle stealth custom paint matte black with gloss black accents and blue insides. Design process was great, using instant messaging at night and emailing draft designs, communication was fine, they understood changes. I even gave them credit with their name and website on the frame. Yin-Yang and Dragon images were from just from google searching. They even got my signature on there! cool:thumbsup:

once i gave my final go, i paid in full and delivery will be 35days since it's pretty complicated. delivery will be end of April2014.

here's my draft. comments welcome. enjoy


----------



## BikeInCanada

asianarnold1 said:


> Hi all
> i've been reading these threads for years and helped my buddy order his fm015 with custom paint. I finally took the plunge after gathering funds. My style of riding is the usual saturday hammerfest fast and flat rides with 30-50 riders on a nice day. So my bike needs are aero.
> 
> I went with a subtle stealth custom paint matte black with gloss black accents and blue insides. Design process was great, using instant messaging at night and emailing draft designs, communication was fine, they understood changes. I even gave them credit with their name and website on the frame. Yin-Yang and Dragon images were from just from google searching. They even got my signature on there! cool:thumbsup:
> 
> once i gave my final go, i paid in full and delivery will be 35days since it's pretty complicated. delivery will be end of April2014.
> 
> here's my draft. comments welcome. enjoy


Wow dude. Just wow. That's gonna look sweet as heck. Can't wait to see the real thing. 

Well done.


----------



## asianarnold1

BikeInCanada said:


> Wow dude. Just wow. That's gonna look sweet as heck. Can't wait to see the real thing.
> 
> Well done.


thanks! i'm pretty stoked about it. took me a long time to get a concept. i wanted something mostly stealthy. 

i have wife and 3 young kids, so....it will be equipped with my old trusty full campy Record 10s and 50mm carbon clinchers from Farsports (i have ~2500mi and ~15,000ft on those hoops already, and they're fine. they weight in at 1350grams). 

i'll have to sell other items to gather funds for any 11spd upgrades. until then, my campys will do just fine.


----------



## Ohuirthile

*Chris' contact info??*

The bike looks incredible! I have been wanting to get one but have been looking for the right person to work with. I think Chris is that person. Can you share the contact info for Chris?




jerthehair said:


> I had a great experience with Chris at ZhongWei; not so much on VeloBuild but whatever. I bought the RB-026 (Tarmacish flavour)
> 
> Emails were answer very prompt and communication was excellent. Frame came packaged very well and paint was far better than I expected.
> Frame in a 56 came in at 899 grams. Bike is super stiff and handles very predictably. This is my 7th open mold build so it went together with no issues.
> 
> Specs:
> Full DA9000
> Reynolds 46's
> Ritchey UD WCS 350mm Post
> Ritchey 400mm Evo 3k Bar
> Ritchey Classic Polished 110mm stem (ti hardware)
> Spec S-Works Toupe 143mm Saddle
> Ultremo ZX 23mm
> Ultegra 6800 pedals
> 
> View attachment 293291


----------



## saad

Ive been speaking to Damon, his skype is damon0116

Anyone dealth with feelbicycle before? They have the R5/RCA too, been speaking to them too. More exxy than Zhongwei, but they use T800 and T1000 and seems Zhongwei use mostly T700?


----------



## ejbones

So my front derailer is a braze on type, and held on to my frame via a clamp on adapter. But the derailer does not reach the large front gear; it can't go far enough out. Are there 34.9mm clamp - braze adapters that have the braze on part farther from the frame? What are my options? I'd prefer to keep the crank spacing how it is.


----------



## ejbones

I found out that the lobe that that adjusts how far the derailer comes back (when tension is released) is -- when I try to shift up -- getting stopped by the clamp on adapter itself. That's why it felt like it wasn't shifting all the way out. Of course, if I dremel down that lobe, i'll be able to shift to the large gear but will no longer have a return adjustment screw that will work (not sure what it's actually called)


----------



## ejbones

got a different clamp-on adapter and now it's working!


----------



## redstarcap

saad said:


> Hey Guys
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone vouch for ZhongWei? Everyone on Velobuild seems happy.
> 
> Thanks for the help guys.


I'm a happy zhongwei customer
Been dealing with Chris before when buying my R-002
So far so good, never had any issue with the bike
I have it since september '13 install it with 105 gruppo
Now I'm using 6870 ultegra Di2, internal routing, no issue except covering the holes with sugru

I'm well aware with velobuild business style.
I think, if you look hard enough, you will find every single chinese vendor had some issue
If you look even harder, every major brand had issue with some of their bikes


----------



## bashthebox

So I thought I'd register and say hello, I've haunted this place for advice long enough. Finally took the plunge and bought a HongFu FM069, ordered in February and it arrived a week ago - custom paint job and UK customs proved the biggest hold-up. 
I'm in the process of building it up now, so can't report back on ride quality but as for the rest - very pleased. 
Frameset in BB30 size 58 weighs in at about 920g. Forks around 350g I think. The paint job turned out better than I could have hoped for. 
In the flesh, it looks fantastic, and as I say I'm pleased as anything. 
Yes, I know it looks rather Ritte-ish; that was a bit of an accident. Went though loads of design iterations and eventually it just went that way.Oh well, it's different enough to be mine, but at the same time the Ritte is one of the prettiest bikes out there, so who gives a damn? 
Here she is then:
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/bashthebox/13214438194/" title="She is here. Oh my. by bashthebox, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3739/13214438194_056e79da63_o.jpg" width="640" height="640" alt="She is here. Oh my."></a>

I'm halfway through the build now - found the internal cable routing surprisingly easy. It's been well thought out to allow the routing to be relatively simple.


----------



## PauliG

*Zhongwei direct contact..*

Have been trying to get in contact with Zonghwei to get pricing on the R26 and the R5 lookalike via alibaba with no joy. Does anyone have a direct email?


----------



## 00Garza

PauliG said:


> Have been trying to get in contact with Zonghwei to get pricing on the R26 and the R5 lookalike via alibaba with no joy. Does anyone have a direct email?


I'm another happy ZhongWei customer currently riding an R-002. Not the lightest frame, but its holding up nicely. I'll also echo what others have said regarding going direct and Velobuild. The price Chris quoted me was almost $100 cheaper than Velobuild mall. Go direct. Here's the email I used, though it was over a year ago so its possible its changed since.
[email protected]


----------



## ChevyDK

What's the zhongwei website adress?


----------



## 00Garza

ChevyDK said:


> What's the zhongwei website adress?


Although they technically do have a website, its not really functional. 
深圳市众为复合材料有限公司

I emailed Chris and he sent me a pdf catalog with all their products, specs, and prices.

EDIT: not sure why the link shows up like that. its forall-bike.com


----------



## PauliG

00Garza said:


> I'm another happy ZhongWei customer currently riding an R-002. Not the lightest frame, but its holding up nicely. I'll also echo what others have said regarding going direct and Velobuild. The price Chris quoted me was almost $100 cheaper than Velobuild mall. Go direct. Here's the email I used, though it was over a year ago so its possible its changed since.
> [email protected]


Many thanks. Hope I can get the same deal as you! Did you get it painted? 
To the other poster, the forall site is hard to navigate! It seems to be optimised for Chinese.


----------



## 00Garza

PauliG said:


> Many thanks. Hope I can get the same deal as you! Did you get it painted?
> To the other poster, the forall site is hard to navigate! It seems to be optimised for Chinese.


I should clarify that when velobuild first put up the R-002, it was over $450 dollars. They have dropped it closer to what I paid for it. Still, I'm sure working directly with Chris will be cheaper. He's great to work with. No paint. Left it gloss black and used white accents (bar tape, cages, pedals, tires, saddle). Here's a really bad picture for reference:
View attachment 293501


----------



## PauliG

Can't open the link...no worries. Not important to see it but I bet you love it!
So the Velobuild 'sale' is not so much of a bargain then.
Are you in Ireland? Just wondering because of the name. If so, how did customs go ?


----------



## 00Garza

PauliG said:


> Can't open the link...no worries. Not important to see it but I bet you love it!
> So the Velobuild 'sale' is not so much of a bargain then.
> Are you in Ireland? Just wondering because of the name. If so, how did customs go ?


From what I know and have seen, no its not a bargain. I'm in the US, so no custom fees or taxes, etc. I've heard fees in Europe are pretty steep. You might want to look into that and include it in your budget. Let me try this again...


----------



## PauliG

That's nice....keeping it simple!
Yeah, the tax matter is a bit of a problem. Some get hit with a super 'anti dumping' tax on bikes from China but this is meant for assembed bikes, not frames. Vat is due and in my case thata 23%, which is fine.
, but the extra 47% would be.


----------



## Ashbringer

00Garza said:


> Although they technically do have a website, its not really functional.
> 深圳市众为复合材料有限公司
> 
> I emailed Chris and he sent me a pdf catalog with all their products, specs, and prices.
> 
> EDIT: not sure why the link shows up like that. its forall-bike.com


it is forall-bike.com
and you can get their frames or parts from
VeloBuild 

or Tencent QQ :490080275 Charisma


----------



## ejbones

This may be old news but...I got an (apparently) C02 Dogma knockoff and it has an aluminum seattube insert glued in! Crazy. I'm assuming that's not standard...


----------



## PauliG

Anybody here from Ireland or EU in general that has purchased a frame from China and got hit with the EU anti dumping tax of 48,5%?
I am hearing that some countries are changing it. If i got hit for that it would make it non economical to buy direct.
Any info on this would be appreciated.


----------



## Crawf

PauliG said:


> Anybody here from Ireland or EU in general that has purchased a frame from China and got hit with the EU anti dumping tax of 48,5%?
> I am hearing that some countries are changing it. If i got hit for that it would make it non economical to buy direct.
> Any info on this would be appreciated.


Can you not get them to declare the frame as a warranty replacement worth zero value?


----------



## PauliG

Crawf said:


> Can you not get them to declare the frame as a warranty replacement worth zero value?


Yea, but that's heading into the realm of tax evasion. Happy to pay the normal duty that would apply to a frame from outside the EU. Just want info on whether customs are levying the anti dumping.....


----------



## nirVELOvana

PauliG said:


> Yea, but that's heading into the realm of tax evasion. Happy to pay the normal duty that would apply to a frame from outside the EU. Just want info on whether customs are levying the anti dumping.....


I'm not an EU citizen. But because I am student of international relations and a no-flag-waving _netizen_ of the WWW, I was able to find this EC regulation document by googling "_EU dumping_".

Having read the following "_Article 2 Determination of dumping_" under section "_B. EXPORT PRICE_" on page "_L 343/56_" of the Regulation....



Official Journal of the European Union --
COUNCIL REGULATION (EC) No 1225/2009 of 30 November 2009 said:


> ...
> 9. In cases where there is no export price or where it appears
> that the export price is unreliable because of an association or a
> compensatory arrangement between the exporter and the
> importer or a third party, the export price may be constructed on
> the basis of *the price at which the imported products are first
> resold to an independent buyer*, or, if the products are not resold
> to an independent buyer, or are not resold in the condition in
> which they were imported, on any reasonable basis.
> 
> In these cases, adjustment for all costs, including duties and taxes,
> incurred between importation and *resale, and for profits* accru*
> ing, shall be made so as to establish a reliable export price, at the
> Community frontier level.
> 
> The items for which adjustment shall be made shall include those
> normally borne by an importer but paid by any party, either inside
> or outside the Community, which appears to be associated or to
> have a compensatory arrangement with the importer or exporter,
> including usual transport, insurance, handling, loading and ancil*
> lary costs; customs duties, any anti-dumping duties, and other
> taxes payable in the importing country by reason of the impor*
> tation or *sale of the goods*; and a reasonable margin *for selling*,
> general and administrative costs and profit.
> ...


...it sounds like a lot of Orwellian doublespeak to my layman's comprehension. But I understand the language of the regulation to mean that the dumping tariff is mainly aimed at discouraging commercial entities who import large numbers of bicycle products from China with the aim of reselling them in in one of the EU member countries. The aim is more than likely to improve the competitiveness of name brand EU bike companies. Not so much to _punish_ Chinese exporters. 

If I understand the above correctly, then the dumping duties probably would not be levied on an individual consumer buying and importing a single frame for his/her own private personal use (_that is, *NOT* for resell_). Again, I'm not an expert on EU legislation - by no means. But common sense tells me it wouldn't be worth any country's tax man's trouble to police the legislation at the individual frame buyer's level.

In the U.S. we have the Chamber of Commerce who is _the go-to guy_ for import/export related matters. Maybe you could hit up the London equivalent of our Chamber of Commerce to get a definitive answer to whether the duty applies to individuals?


----------



## RaptorTC

bashthebox said:


> So I thought I'd register and say hello, I've haunted this place for advice long enough. Finally took the plunge and bought a HongFu FM069, ordered in February and it arrived a week ago - custom paint job and UK customs proved the biggest hold-up.
> I'm in the process of building it up now, so can't report back on ride quality but as for the rest - very pleased.
> Frameset in BB30 size 58 weighs in at about 920g. Forks around 350g I think. The paint job turned out better than I could have hoped for.
> In the flesh, it looks fantastic, and as I say I'm pleased as anything.
> Yes, I know it looks rather Ritte-ish; that was a bit of an accident. Went though loads of design iterations and eventually it just went that way.Oh well, it's different enough to be mine, but at the same time the Ritte is one of the prettiest bikes out there, so who gives a damn?
> Here she is then:
> <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/bashthebox/13214438194/" title="She is here. Oh my. by bashthebox, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3739/13214438194_056e79da63_o.jpg" width="640" height="640" alt="She is here. Oh my."></a>
> 
> I'm halfway through the build now - found the internal cable routing surprisingly easy. It's been well thought out to allow the routing to be relatively simple.


Very sharp looking frame. And so what if it looks Ritte-esque. After all, Rittes are just re-badged and painted Chinese carbon frames anyway.


----------



## f3rg

I put knobbies on my FM015. I'm just posting this to hopefully help anyone else who may have questions as to what will fit the frame/fork.

I only have the front tire now (I didn't want to order 2 if it didn't fit), but the fork has less tire clearance than the frame, so anything that fits up front should fit in the rear (that's what she said).

The tire comes in 23c, 25c, and *28c*, which is what I'm running. As you can see, the 28c measures like a 26c when mounted to the rim. My Conti 4000S tires are 25c, and measure like a 28c on these same rims. The rim is a Stan's Alpha 340 (17/20mm inside/outside width).

Weight is also very acceptable at 254g, which is way lighter than I'd expected. Not being able to find listed weights anywhere online, I was hoping they'd be light. I plan on getting a second one, and using them for gravel rail-trail rides to save wear on my Conti's.

EDIT: it's called the Kenda Karvs.


----------



## nirVELOvana

bashthebox said:


> ... *UK customs proved the biggest hold-up*...


Wanna give something back to the community after months of haunting?  Do you feel like sharing with the curious whether or not the London tax man charged you any anti-dumping duty?

Thanks in advance for your reply.


----------



## dindier

I ordered a chinese carbon frame+fork and upon receiving it noticed that the fork has a 3cm long x 1-2mm wide x 1mm deep gouge that has been epoxied over. It is located above the tapered section on the back side. It's pretty hard to photograph, but from different angles you can see the depth (photo 1- white layer); width, epoxy layer, and gouge path(photo 2 & 3). I've contacted the company rep, and she says that she has "forwarded it to the engineers." Currently waiting on response.

update:
Received a new fork about 2 weeks after the initial inquiry+follow up inquiry. The purchase was done through cfbstore on ebay, which is a Flyxii retailer (purchased the FR-322).

edit- re-attaching photos


----------



## rider3000

jbrookeiv said:


> Here's my build with full Ultegra, including all shipping costs. All parts are completely new except the Ultegra group which was a take-off after 10 miles of riding. It would not be possible to get close to this weight for this price from a LBS or online with branded frames.
> 
> Make Weight Cost
> Frame/Fork Flyxii FR-315 1384 $490.00
> Stem Ritchey Pro 4axis 150 $34.99
> Handlebar Dengfu 220 $48.00
> Bar Tape Fizik Microtex 63 $17.95
> Brake/Shifters Shimano Ultegra 448 $610.00
> Crankset Shimano Ultegra 800
> Derailleurs – F Shimano Ultegra 84
> Derailleurs – R Shimano Ultegra 190
> Brakes Shimano Ultegra 308
> Cassette Shimano 105 238 $48.99
> Chain Shimano Ultegra 267 $31.99
> Cables/Housing
> Headset incl with frame 93 $0.00
> Pedals Forte Team Road 280 $0.00
> Seatpost Flyxii 163 $0.00
> Saddle Cutter 212 $0.00
> Tires Continental Gatorskins 460 $87.98
> Tubes Vittoria Latex 150 $29.68
> Wheels Vuelta Corsa-Lite 1523 $240.00
> 
> Totals 7033 $1,639.58
> 
> Weight in lb 15.50509246


Hi there,

would you please pm me where you got vuelta corsa wheels from for that cheap?


----------



## bashthebox

> Do you feel like sharing with the curious whether or not the London tax man charged you any anti-dumping duty?


Of course! And there was me thinking no once cared 
The package was marked at a value of $100, and UK customs charged me £44 import duty. So, a lot on the marked value, but not too much on the actual value of around $700. I guess UK customs aren't daft.


----------



## Blue Bird

Not sure if anyone has posted this, but here is a 5% off coupon for yoeleobike.com: SCC5OFF

I ordered a YCRDF01 and a set of Novatec disc-hub 60mm U-shape clinchers about 2 weeks ago...still hasn't shipped. AKAIK, no one on the forum has purchased this frame in the past.


----------



## GarminEdge705

Just got my FM098 Frame


----------



## BikeInCanada

GarminEdge705 said:


> Just got my FM098 Frame
> View attachment 293617


Very nice. The blue really pops. Well done.


----------



## BikeInCanada

This is my r-002. Should be building up in a few weeks.


----------



## bvber

BikeInCanada said:


> Should be building up in a few weeks.


Why so long? The suspense is killing me.


----------



## BikeInCanada

bvber said:


> Why so long? The suspense is killing me.


I know right? . it's killing me as well. I've had the frame for like 2 months now 

Just waiting for the nice weather and some last minute parts.


----------



## Chris_Mei

PauliG said:


> Many thanks. Hope I can get the same deal as you! Did you get it painted?
> To the other poster, the forall site is hard to navigate! It seems to be optimised for Chinese.


*[email protected]*MSN: [email protected]
Skype: chris_mei007
Mobile: 86-13510262471

We are partner of VeloBuild and this is the place for best price and our service.

Thank you!
Chris


----------



## nirVELOvana

jerthehair said:


> Nope, I sent him the *Pantone paint codes* I wanted and he sent pics after it was done. Its was cheaper going direct than through Velomall also - almost $80 less. Tiny blemish on the underside edge of the BB shell, but otherwise it looks as good as any other high end frameset.


How close to your Pantone colors did they actually get? I know when I specced my frame's paint job with Miracle Bikes, they used a Taiwanese color system (_Y.S. Paint_) where no matter what color you choose, the majority of their paints have that almost (_let's be honest_) chintzy-looking sparkly glitter effect underlying the main color. None of those Y.S. Paint color swatches matched any of the colors I actually wanted. There was a very particular Blue color I wanted. The Y.S. Paint blue I chose looked pretty close on screen to what I wanted. Depending on how the light hits it and how far away from it you are, it does look pretty stunning! But up real close, it looks like, "_Twinkle, twinkle little star_". My _*wish *_is that it didn't have all that glitter.

I vowed that for my next frame build project I will only use a paint shop that uses Pantone. On a scale of 1-to-10 (_10 being perfect_) how close did they get to what you specified?

Thanks in advance for your reply.


----------



## jerthehair

The color was 9.5 out of 10 for me - evidence in how close to the Deda Bar tape is to the actual yellow on the frame. This was my reference color when I speced the color; no sparkles or any of that. 

The only paint issue I can mention is that I have the frame in UD gloss and the yellow - needing more coats (likely no primer) - has a very slight "edge" between the unpainted frame and where the paint starts. Felt only with very sensitive fingers, the blue has no edge as it probably covered easier with less coats.


----------



## asianarnold1

GarminEdge705 said:


> Just got my FM098 Frame


nice. i guess that's what my Blue Dragon fm098 blue color will look like. i still have ~3 weeks to go, delivery by end of April.


----------



## 00Garza

Seeing all these slick paint jobs makes me wish I had been more patient and saved up for a custom paint job. Oh well...maybe for my next build?! Because you know...n+1.


----------



## [email protected]

Blue Bird said:


> Not sure if anyone has posted this, but here is a 5% off coupon for yoeleobike.com: SCC5OFF
> 
> I ordered a YCRDF01 and a set of Novatec disc-hub 60mm U-shape clinchers about 2 weeks ago...still hasn't shipped. AKAIK, no one on the forum has purchased this frame in the past.


Sounds really interesting. I'm looking into a disc brake race bike as well (going to be a project for next winter) and I'm also looking into this frame (it looks the same as the 051 from Zhongwhei)

Keep us posted 



GarminEdge705 said:


> Just got my FM098 Frame
> View attachment 293617


Love the blue, which color code is this?


----------



## GarminEdge705

The Color is the YS-7463


----------



## snipe

RacerOne said:


> I'm trying to decide between the FR-602-D and the FM-105-d cyclocross frame/fork. The FR-602-d is probably more what I want geometry wise, as it is very similar to the Foundry Auger. My sticking point on it is the (in my opinion) odd looking fork. The geometry on the FM-105-d is different than any other bikes I can compare it too, and I seem to not be able to find nearly as much information on the specific geometry measurements (front-center) for example. Would anybody have a good chart of the complete FM-105-d measurements? Maybe some personal experience with frame itself? Thanks in advance.


hi
my short list came down to those two bikes as well. At first didn't like the cosmetics of the reverse curve fork of the 602 but after seeing some photos of it built up it was okay. However the head angle is quite slack and that concerned me. In comparison the 105 has steeper head angle but I am not wild about the wedge shaped top tube/head tube junction...fussy. What did you end up buying, if you did, and how did the build go.


----------



## MMsRepBike

I decided to pull the trigger after reading every page of these threads.
I opted for the Flyxii FR-315.
I went through ebay and the seller etatime.








The stem and handlebars are just there to hold the fork on.
I replaced the headset with a Cane Creek 40 Series one.
These are probably going to be this bike's summer wheels.

I was pretty happy until I tried to install a seat and the seatpost cracked.

















Didn't even make it to 5nm before it cracked. It's a poorly made post and I hope to get it replaced. I have everything else for it. It's getting Ultegra 6700 black.

Hopefully things get fixed and I can get it built up for lots of picture sharing.


----------



## nirVELOvana

MMsRepBike said:


> I decided to pull the trigger after reading every page of these threads.
> I opted for the Flyxii FR-315.
> I went through ebay and the seller etatime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The stem and handlebars are just there to hold the fork on.
> I replaced the headset with a Cane Creek 40 Series one.
> These are probably going to be this bike's summer wheels.
> 
> I was pretty happy until I tried to install a seat and the seatpost cracked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't even make it to 5nm before it cracked. It's a poorly made post and I hope to get it replaced. I have everything else for it. It's getting Ultegra 6700 black.
> 
> Hopefully things get fixed and I can get it built up for lots of picture sharing.


Bummer about your seatpost. I'm sure your supplier will make you whole though.

Wanna pay it forward and give something back to the forum? It'd be interesting if you could journalize here the warranty-replacement experience you go through with your Chinese ebay seller, etatime.

I think such a candid accounting could be beneficial for folks on both sides of the fence on the issue of Chinese carbon frames. There's an undeserved wide-spread (_mis_)conception that buyers of Chinese carbon fiber bike stuff have no recourse to warranty redemption in the event of things randomly going wrong within the Chinese frame sellers' standard 2 year warranty period.

From my own personal experience, I know that invoking a warranty on a directly-sourced product from China is no more or less fraught than invoking a warranty on a US-branded product. In fact, there have been at least two less-than-ideal accounts recently posted right here in RBR by a couple guys frustratingly chasing up warranties on their US-branded bikes:


This guy's Italian-branded (_but Chinese born_) Casati
Some other guy with a Cannondale a few weeks ago
I would bet that your warranty experience with your Chinese ebay seller will be resolved _at least_ within a time frame relatively similar to the Cannondale guy's claim (_about a month and a half if I recall correctly_); and more likely even quicker than that.

This guy's blog offers some smart advice that is applicable across the board to chasing up a warranty regardless of country-of-origin.


----------



## MMsRepBike

nirVELOvana said:


> Bummer about your seatpost. I'm sure your supplier will make you whole though.
> 
> Wanna pay it forward and give something back to the forum? It'd be interesting if you could journalize here the warranty-replacement experience you go through with your Chinese ebay seller, etatime.


Sure. etatime is basically Flyxii themselves if I'm not mistaken. I have no problem continuing the updates. I'm no rookie to international trade so I'm a pretty good candidate for it. I have patience and I treat the vendors in China just as I would anyone else, with respect.

As for whatever other details I have:

I bought the frame about two weeks ago.
It arrived before I could even ask for a tracking number.
So I think that was about four days. I wasn't expecting it for a while.
It's a size 52, matte, 3k. 

I bought a set of 6800 for my Pinarello Paris and I'm giving the Paris' 6700 to this bike. I ordered stuff from Shimano for the bike, PRO Aerofuel saddle, PRO 7S stem and bars.

That's pretty much it for now. Oh, I'm a certified mechanic/technician for Shimano and I work at a bike shop in town so I'm at least not a noob to bikes. I have faith that etatime will fix it rather quickly based on their initial response time. I already gave them positive feedback so maybe I'm wrong, but I have a feeling they're solid. It's clearly a manufacturing error if you ask me, the hole isn't round and it's way too thin. Anyway, I'll let you know when I get a replacement and how it went.


----------



## ruckus

Bought a FR-322 frameset. Already have parts to built it. Bontrager XXX seatpost, Pro 7S Stem and handlebar, Shimano RS11 wheels and Shimano 105 complete group.

I hope it rides well and lasts a few years.

I hope no one will want to steal an unbranded bike and no accidents.


----------



## nirVELOvana

MMsRepBike said:


> ...Anyway, I'll let you know when I get a replacement and how it went.


Awesome!


----------



## ruckus

Got a reply on ebay from cfbstore, I'm pretty sure that's flyxii directly, just using that odd name. The rep's signature is flyxii.

Maybe old news, figured I'd just write that here. Also price on Ebay is the cheapest I've seen for the FR-322.


----------



## ruckus

DaveG said:


> Evan, I am personally leery about buying no name stuff from China. This is a country that brought us tainted baby formula, toothpaste with anti-freeze, lead-painted toys, and most recently poisonous dog treats. I don't think it too hard to imagine them skimpy on quality control and safety


Really?!? What US gov allowed corporations to do in the US are far worse. Have you not been paying attention to the pesticides that are used and leaked into water sources? Have you not been paying attention to the amount of nuclear waste is leaked into our water sources? Did you not just read recently the only nuclear waste storage facility had an explosion and then a fire a week later?

As for quality control, Chevy's defect responsible for 300+ deaths? The canteloupe food poisoning that killed 33 people! Have you not gone looking for apartments recently and seen that many still have lead paint? There are constant disasters in the US in relation to tainted food. 

Recently in MASS, some pharmacies were distributing tainted drugs with some sort of fungus. The number of people affected and killed is still ongoing. It's a huge disaster and even required new legislation to improve regulations and QC. So give me a break, even the supposed #1 nation has mind boggling disastrous QC/QA issues.

You get what you pay for is true. These Chinese Carbon frames will have defects and issues. They don't have the experience the Taiwanese have in building Carbon frames. They also don't have the financial backing of massive Brands to fund their research and development. 

The good part is that most of the reputable sellers are now selling frames that have undergone EN testing. EN testing puts bikes multiple times more stress than even Lance Armstrong ever could have. It's something like 12000N when best Pro is about 150N. It's ridiculous.

I've also noticed, there is VERY LITTLE evidence of Chinese Carbon bikes being more likely to break than a branded. I have read very few actual examples, 99% of it is just hearsay, a friend of a supposed friend. And they are usually from the same people complaining in multiple threads/forums. Just saying...

Also I personally enjoy looking at youtube of carbon bikes failing. The examples are endless and they are of branded bikes, 5000-10000$$$ frames. That only tells me there will always be an inherent risk with Carbon frames that some will have defects. It's not hard to find carbon wheels and frames crumbling not even from a crash, just from stress during a sprint or on a fast corner. 

*There will always be a chance for bike failure. Just look at this vid, Bradley Wiggins', a sponsored bike failed him mid-race, frustrated him so much he threw it away...
- *Not the frame, but just shows, Japenese made Di2 failed, there will always be QA issues regardless of country of origin.


----------



## bashthebox

I hit a massive bump in the road on my first ride out on my Chinese frame. Going down a fast and steep descent, and suddenly there was a trench across the road, sharp edged, didn't even have time to hop it. BANG. Hit it so hard my bars slipped in the stem and the seatpost expander moved. But nothing broke, the frame felt sold as you like.


----------



## MMsRepBike

Summary of my situation: 

I ordered a FR-315 from etatime on ebay on 3/15/14
Size is 52, 3k matte, not sure the CF used, probably T700, hopefully 800.
I had to ask for "freely headset" in the note to get a headset included

The frame/fork/seatpost/headset arrived on 3/20/14
Very raw matte finish, almost rough in areas, not wetsanded at all it seems.
no matte clear or anything, just raw and a little rough but nice.

I ordered parts for my Pinarello and parts for this bike, they arrived on 3/30/14
I decided on hand-me-down 6700, PRO 7S Bar/Stem and Aerofuel saddle. 52mm
Mavic Cosmic Carbone SLS wheels. Continental 4000S's. I ended up replacing
the headset with a Cane Creek 40 series one.

First thing I did to the frame is install the bottom bracket. I ordered a BSA frame because I run Shimano. I chose the Ultegra 6800 english thread BB. That went well.
Next I decided to install the seat. The seatpost is very slack in the frame so I applied a healthy amount of Park's carbon assembly paste. I torqued the seatpost clamp bolts to 5nm and that seemed to go just fine. I went to install the seat and disaster.

CRACK

I was incredibly careful, but that didn't matter. As I was torquing the back bolt to 5nm I heard/felt the terrible crack.










After checking to make sure something wasn't misaligned or something of the sort I decided to take a closer look at why it happened.









Here is the crack, and there's a little nub at the top there just hanging out. To see why it cracked you have to turn it upside down.









Very irregular, thin and poor shape here. This is the sort of thing we're warned against when buying these type of frames.









Above you can see the gap where there should have been more carbon. There is a
half spherical fitting that sits in there as you can see. The hole it's in should fit this
piece snugly, but it was obviously poorly done.

So on 3/31/14 I contact etatime with the news and send them pictures.
On 4/1/14 they reply to me saying not to worry that the factory has been contacted and that either a replacement or a refund would follow. I was asked to wait 48 hours.
I let them know due to the shape of the aero post I'd need a replacement in order for the bike to work and thanked them.


Granted, this seatpost is junk. That's pretty poor quality and qc but the seller seems really solid so far and if they replace it with a good one I won't really have anything bad to say at all. I just hope I can be one of the guys that reports 10,000 trouble free miles on it. I bought it for a winter bike and plan to ride it quite a bit. I'll report their decision in a couple days.


----------



## LONDON-GUY

Does anyone know what frame the stradalli R7 and Airstreem road sl is by its generic chinese name? As it appears they are the same as far as i can see.


----------



## pushstart

Someone on WW just posted that the Stradalli R7 is the Hongfu/Dengfu FM066SL.


----------



## ruckus

Watching some CAT races on youtube. I believe I'm seeing a lot of no brand, stealth Chinese carbons


----------



## LONDON-GUY

Many Thanks i think that is the frame in question 



pushstart said:


> Someone on WW just posted that the Stradalli R7 is the Hongfu/Dengfu FM066SL.


----------



## ruckus

Been watching some races on Youtube, I believe I'm seeing quite a few unbranded black carbon bikes that look similar to these Chinese carbons.

Cool right?


----------



## Maglore

ruckus said:


> Watching some CAT races on youtube. I believe I'm seeing a lot of no brand, stealth Chinese carbons


It's no coincidence. They perform well and if you stack one, they're cheap to replace.


----------



## DCash

ruckus said:


> Been watching some races on Youtube, I believe I'm seeing quite a few unbranded black carbon bikes that look similar to these Chinese carbons.
> 
> Cool right?


A couple local teams did group buys with team color paint and logos. FM015 and FM098 for road, FM058 for 'cross. Talked to one guy who raced his FM058 at the world championship in Louisville.


----------



## ruckus

Went for my longest ride, 25 miles. Felt good. Great bike, FR-322. Sucked that majority of the loop was headwind, but it was easy to keep up the cadence, felt the bike just wanted to move, forward momentum great. Felt great in the drops, no numbness in my hands or ass. 

For my first carbon, and considering it's ridiculously low pricetag, can't ask for more on my ride. I really hope the $5,000 carbons have something spectacular for the increased $4650 pricetag. Diminishing returns I know and I'm not ragging on those incredible machines.


----------



## BikeInCanada

ruckus said:


> Sucked that majority of the loop was headwind, .


I think this is one if the unwritten rules of biking. 

No matter where you are or what direction you are going ... Headwind! Lol


----------



## nirVELOvana

ruckus said:


> ...I really hope the $5,000 carbons have something spectacular for the increased $4650 pricetag. Diminishing returns I know and I'm not ragging on those incredible machines.


That's exactly the kind of thought that always goes through my mind while I'm riding my $600 Chinese carbon frame! Specifically: "_Unless totally different laws of physics apply to more expensive bikes, there is no way *any* bike feels better to ride (*to me*) than this one!_"

To the language nazis reading this (_not directed at you, OP_): I emphasized "_*to me*_" on purpose.


----------



## ruckus

nirVELOvana said:


> That's exactly the kind of thought that always goes through my mind while I'm riding my $600 Chinese carbon frame! Specifically: "_Unless totally different laws of physics apply to more expensive bikes, there is no way *any* bike feels better to ride (*to me*) than this one!_"


It really does prove how much branding costs. In another thread someone believes $3500 for a Lapierre with Ultrega is a great deal. There is nothing special about that frame, in fact it looks like an open frame to me. 

These Chinese carbons certainly are a great value and great entry to carbon. For me it's a great way to experience riding carbon. But will admit it does not have the intricacies of a Cannondale EVO. A bike that has specially designed seatstays and chainstays to improve comfort, with flexibility in the seattube. And a frame weighing only 800 grams but still able to handle Peter Sagan and Ivan Basso. But Lapierre? That's a laugh. *All high end bikes are overpriced, but some like Cannondale EVO or Specialized Tarmac or Trek Domane, I can understand. But the Lapierre? That's a laugh.*


----------



## svard75

Mr.Habanero said:


> R-029 Saiph!
> 
> View attachment 291443
> 
> View attachment 291444
> 
> View attachment 291445
> 
> View attachment 291446
> 
> View attachment 291447
> 
> View attachment 291448
> 
> View attachment 291448


Very nice! Bet it climbs like helium.


----------



## ruckus

svard75 said:


> Very nice! Bet it climbs like helium.


Eh... I find most of these open frames have more influence from Trek Madone, Scott Foil and Specialized Tarmac.


----------



## ruckus

So after 3 days of 100 miles total I report that my Chinese carbon has not exploded. It has not made any cracking noises or shown any stress through the bumpy roads of MA. 

And I know bugly64 is loving this FR-322 as well. 

My carbon seatpost arrived. I have doubts it will improve my ride over my cheap alloy. Bu why not? Still waiting for water cages which is peculiar since they both arrived in NY and MA at the same time.


----------



## bugly64

I just did my first Century today on it. I am beat, and it didn't explode either. I tried that Bontrager xxx seatpost and couldn't get it tighten up enough. Oh yeah, I love my FLYXII!


----------



## pushstart

bugly64 said:


> I just did my first Century today on it. I am beat, and it didn't explode either. I tried that Bontrager xxx seatpost and couldn't get it tighten up enough. Oh yeah, I love my FLYXII!


Those posts should have saddle clamp bolt torqued to 16Nm, I believe; that is pretty high (use a torque wrench!). I have that post and did not have trouble getting it tight enough. Of course, that may be a knock-off version and not quite within tolerance?


----------



## Scope

ruckus said:


> So after 3 days of 100 miles total I report that my Chinese carbon has not exploded. It has not made any cracking noises or shown any stress through the bumpy roads of MA.
> 
> And I know bugly64 is loving this FR-322 as well.
> 
> My carbon seatpost arrived. I have doubts it will improve my ride over my cheap alloy. Bu why not? Still waiting for water cages which is peculiar since they both arrived in NY and MA at the same time.


I have one of those posts. After being properly torqued the saddle would rotate freely. Had to up the torque on the saddle clamp to 22nm to stop it from moving. After that it lasted all of one short spring ride before the post delaminated and cracked.

My $0.02


----------



## horvatht

pushstart said:


> Those posts should have saddle clamp bolt torqued to 16Nm, I believe; that is pretty high (use a torque wrench!). I have that post and did not have trouble getting it tight enough. Of course, that may be a knock-off version and not quite within tolerance?


Carbon paste on the seat post has really worked great for me. And oh yeah use a torque wrench


----------



## f3rg

ruckus said:


> So after 3 days of 100 miles total I report that my Chinese carbon has not exploded.


I just passed 15,000mi on mine, zero problems.


----------



## Maglore

ruckus said:


> Eh... I find most of these open frames have more influence from Trek Madone, Scott Foil and Specialized Tarmac.


The old one's do. The new generation of open mould frames tend to have their own design influences, although there are only so many ways you can reinvent the double triangle bike frame.


----------



## ruckus

f3rg said:


> I just passed 15,000mi on mine, zero problems.


Incredible. Maybe end of next year I can say the same.


----------



## DudeMtn

saad said:


> Hey Guys
> 
> Getting back into riding again, and just feel the need to go to Carbon - I have a Cervelo Soloist Team, that I love, but I have the carbon itch!
> 
> I was about to purchase a Hong Fu FM066SL with a paintjob, then went onto velobuild and found out that ZhongWei does the bikes they sell - looked them up, and found a new frame which is basically a copy of the Cervelo R5 - had a long chat with Damon from ZhongWei, and he told me they will be ready next month in the size I'm after.
> 
> Anyway, turns out that the ZhongWei is a fair bit cheaper than the Hong Fu, and it has the same geometry as an R3/R5 - I've ridden an R3, and loved it, the FM066SL has a shorter head tube, meaning I'd have to run more spacers.
> 
> Can anyone vouch for ZhongWei? Everyone on Velobuild seems happy.
> 
> Also, I was looking at the Ritte Bosber 3.0, which is a Hong Fu FM015 correct? Does anyone know the difference between the FM066 and the FM015, and which would you choose and why.
> 
> Thanks for the help guys.


Hey Saad, I can't speak to the other rigs but here are a couple of shots of mine. DengFu FMO15. Going on 3 years and it has been an awesome bike in every way. It is stiff, fast and well made. I just pulled it out for the first few rides this season since I live in snow country and it reminds me of how much I really love it. Would do it again 100X. Cheers!


----------



## DudeMtn

*Pics Inserted*

View attachment 294339
View attachment 294340


----------



## Scope

horvatht said:


> Carbon paste on the seat post has really worked great for me. And oh yeah use a torque wrench


Torque wrench was ordered before I ordered the post.


----------



## ruckus

What pics?

DudeMtn


----------



## ruckus

pushstart said:


> Those posts should have saddle clamp bolt torqued to 16Nm, I believe; that is pretty high (use a torque wrench!). I have that post and did not have trouble getting it tight enough. Of course, that may be a knock-off version and not quite within tolerance?


Could be. Got it off Ebay. But for now it's working. I did have to tighten it a bit but I did that with my previous post, I don't want the seat moving at all. 

If anything goes wrong, I'll get an FSA post, those are still around what I paid for the Bontrager.


----------



## DudeMtn

ruckus said:


> What pics?
> 
> DudeMtn


Tried twice but I guess it doesn't work very well most of the time. And yes, I know how to attach and insert pics. Here is one more shot:

View attachment 294376


View attachment 294377


Cheers.


----------



## ruckus

No dice.


----------



## MMsRepBike

*Update on Flyxii FR-315*

Okay, update time 

Today, 4/14, I got my replacement seatpost. Again I didn't get a tracking number or response about one but whatever, it arrived. The replacement is far superior to the original. The front bolt has an o-ring the other one didn't have but the bolt changed from 8mm to 7mm. The back bolt and cup, which cracked on the first one are much better on this one. 

Here are pictures of the new one:










































I can happily report that I installed the new seatpost without it breaking which makes the bike complete... or does it. 

Here it is as it sits right now:


































So can I ride it? Does this make it finished?
It does not. Derailleur hanger doesn't work with big gears 

When I bought the bike, I also bought 4 spare rear derailleur hangers. The ones I bought are the same design/shape as the ones that can be purchased from derailleurhanger.com. However they don't work worth a crap.

A rear derailleur hanger serves two main purposes, first is a replaceable mount for the derailleur and the second is a post for the b tension screw to tension against. The latter is the problem.

This bike uses derailleur hanger #148. And when like me you run an 11-32 cassette, you need all the b-tension you can get for proper jockey wheel clearance vs the 32 tooth cog. Well the hanger the bike came with and the ones I bought as extras don't work. The plate the b-tension screw tensions against is not perpendicular and the screw just slides down the hanger instead of tensioning against it.









Above is the hanger the bike comes with, the one you can get on ebay for it as a replacement and the one you can get from derailleurhanger.com.

It doesn't work with my gearing.

It appears that wheels manufacturing has figured this out. They have their own hanger #148 with an updated design to the b-tension dropout part of the hanger. It has a semi-circular indent to catch and hold the b-tension screw. $32 for the hanger though... grrr.









Above is the better one from Wheels Manufacturing that has a little spot for the screw.


So again I'm waiting for parts but at least Flyxii is off the hook.

Here's a couple pictures of the bike I can actually ride:


























This is where the donor wheels are coming from.


----------



## saad

Hey Guys

Looking for some 50 or 60mm deep wheels now too - frame is currently being painted 

Can anyone recommend any good options? Yishun, Yoleo, and HongFu (UAM) seem to be decent. HOwever, you can now also get "zipp 404s", that have dimples on them, and I think those rims are made in taiwan, and they are definitely more expensive. Availably on aliexpress and alibaba. Any thoughts?

And tubular or clincher? Tubulars are lighter and sexier, but clinchers are, easier.


----------



## tthome

Trying to give back to the newly intiated or Chinese interested...I cut my teeth here many years ago too...below is what I've done, what I've learned and what I do now.

I've owned 3 different Chinese Carbon Bikes, the FM001, FM095 and some other Flyxii frameset that I've yet to really identify other than it looking like a Colnago. I'll state that I've had good experience with each but I did order them all through well reviewed Chinese vendors like HongFu/Dengfu/Flyxii, again all well reveiwed. My purchase prices ranged from $400 to $550 for these frames. I've since built them up and sold them off to local folks via Craigslist. What I've learned over the past 6 years of building up my own road bikes with these chinese frames is that you can also find deals for "NEW" name brand bikes on ebay and craigslist for just about the same price if you take your time and look around. A few years ago I purchased a brand new 2011 Rocky Mountain 70RSL Road Frameset (search the forum here) for $450. It's build quality is honestly second to none. Also just last week I received a brand new BMC SL01 Frameset (105 Model Paint Scheme) for $650, the pictures is below.
View attachment 294387


The point I'm trying to make is if it's price that is the key factor there are many good name brand framesets you could purchase for around the same price as these chinese carbon frames, you just need to look around. I don't own any Chinese carbon bicycles anymore, not because they're junk but because of what I stated above. The cost of the frames was my driving decision maker. I've riden both expensive bikes and chinese carbon and all of them have their own riding characteristics. I've had great experiences with both. I've simply chosen to stick with the name branded bikes over the chinese carbon because the cost isn't that far off for branded. Full discolure: I now own 6 branded road bikes, 4 of them built up myself with parts cherry picked off craigslist or ebay. 1 bicycle I bought new out of the box (but nowhere near retail) was my 2012 BMC SL01 and yes I own 2 BMC SL01's. My other store bought bike is 2013 Cervelo S5 Di2 Ultegra. The other 4 that I've built by purchasing framesets are 2011 Cannondale SuperSix, 2011 Rocky Mountain 70RSL, 2012 Raleigh Prestige and the 2013 BMC SL01 pictured above.

Best advice I can give you guys for buying chinese carbon is; Stick with the chinese frames that have good reviews here on RBR. Pay attention to the people who comment on their quality and how active they are on RBR. If they have 1000+ posts then there is a good chance they know what they're talking about. Let someone else be the "beta tester" on a frame you've never seen. Let someone else take the risk of the purchase and being the early adopter. I made all my chinese carbon decisions based on paying close attention to the profile information of the people that made the comments. Bottom line, you can find a great chinese carbon frameset for much less than retail sure but you can also find a great brand name frameset for at or near the same price of chinese carbone without too much extra risk. My thinking is why take it. My biggest concern purchasing from China was if I had a problem with a frame or part how would I go about getting some help. Fortunately I never needed it, but with the frames I now ride I don't have to worry so much.


----------



## ruckus

There is wonderful appeal to riding an unbranded bike. If BMC wants me to ride their bike, they will have to pay me to be their moving billboard.


----------



## MMsRepBike

saad said:


> Hey Guys
> 
> Looking for some 50 or 60mm deep wheels now too - frame is currently being painted
> 
> Can anyone recommend any good options? Yishun, Yoleo, and HongFu (UAM) seem to be decent. HOwever, you can now also get "zipp 404s", that have dimples on them, and I think those rims are made in taiwan, and they are definitely more expensive. Availably on aliexpress and alibaba. Any thoughts?
> 
> And tubular or clincher? Tubulars are lighter and sexier, but clinchers are, easier.


If I was going to buy a set of chinese wheels, it would be without a doubt from Yoeleo. I like what they have going on and how they innovate in house. Their SAT feature is rather nice and clever. I'd go with the wider, U shape wheels and run wider tires. Maybe their youtube videos have me a little bias though, I find them entertaining.


----------



## saad

MMsRepBike said:


> If I was going to buy a set of chinese wheels, it would be without a doubt from Yoeleo. I like what they have going on and how they innovate in house. Their SAT feature is rather nice and clever. I'd go with the wider, U shape wheels and run wider tires. Maybe their youtube videos have me a little bias though, I find them entertaining.


Yes they definitely are entertaining! I dont get the difference between the Yoeleo branded ones and the blank ones though, seems the Yoeleo 'blue' branded wheels are a lot more expensive.

I run 25mm tyres, so thinking 25mm wheels too? And the U shape, is that similar to the Zipp firecrest and supposedly more aero?


----------



## MMsRepBike

saad said:


> I run 25mm tyres, so thinking 25mm wheels too? And the U shape, is that similar to the Zipp firecrest and supposedly more aero?


I'm switching to 25mm tires soon, good move. You'll want a rim that's between 23 and 25mm ideally. The U shape of the rim is now an industry standard profile for the wider rim shape. You'll find it on much more than Zipp now a days. I think Shimano was the first big company to hit the major peloton with the wide rims a few years back. In short time all the pros will be on 25mm tires and wide, U shaped profile rims.

The SAT feature from Yoeleo is pretty neat. There's no holes in the rim to be covered by rim tape so no rim tape or wheel band or whatever you call it is needed to cover them. This makes a stronger wheel that is lighter and can withstand more braking force. Pretty on top of things for being "some Chinese company." You have to admit though their wheels can be pretty expensive. They start to creep up into major brand category of price.

And don't quote me on this but I think they have a full carbon/kevlar wheel too. It won't be long until carbon/kevlar replaces straight carbon on most parts of the bike. It's the next industry step I think.


----------



## svard75

MMsRepBike said:


> Okay, update time
> ......
> This bike uses derailleur hanger #148. And when like me you run an 11-32 cassette, you need all the b-tension you can get for proper jockey wheel clearance vs the 32 tooth cog. Well the hanger the bike came with and the ones I bought as extras don't work. The plate the b-tension screw tensions against is not perpendicular and the screw just slides down the hanger instead of tensioning against it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Above is the hanger the bike comes with, the one you can get on ebay for it as a replacement and the one you can get from derailleurhanger.com.
> 
> It doesn't work with my gearing.
> 
> It appears that wheels manufacturing has figured this out. They have their own hanger #148 with an updated design to the b-tension dropout part of the hanger. It has a semi-circular indent to catch and hold the b-tension screw. $32 for the hanger though... grrr.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Above is the better one from Wheels Manufacturing that has a little spot for the screw.
> 
> 
> So again I'm waiting for parts but at least Flyxii is off the hook.
> 
> Here's a couple pictures of the bike I can actually ride:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is where the donor wheels are coming from.


Wouldn't a longer screw work just as well?

Nice alternate bike btw, is that a Chinarello or the real deal?


----------



## rider3000

I was told by Hongfu this morning that they are selling out all their old frames as new stock gets made… she said they are not making the FM015 anymore, so does anybody know what their new frames are like? Their website still looks the same.


----------



## svard75

rider3000 said:


> I was told by Hongfu this morning that they are selling out all their old frames as new stock gets made… she said they are not making the FM015 anymore, so does anybody know what their new frames are like? Their website still looks the same.



Their alibaba website appears to be the most up to date 
Shenzhen Hongfu Sports Goods Co., Ltd. - Full Carbon Bicycle Parts (Frame,Fork


----------



## saad

MMsRepBike said:


> I'm switching to 25mm tires soon, good move. You'll want a rim that's between 23 and 25mm ideally. The U shape of the rim is now an industry standard profile for the wider rim shape. You'll find it on much more than Zipp now a days. I think Shimano was the first big company to hit the major peloton with the wide rims a few years back. In short time all the pros will be on 25mm tires and wide, U shaped profile rims.
> 
> The SAT feature from Yoeleo is pretty neat. There's no holes in the rim to be covered by rim tape so no rim tape or wheel band or whatever you call it is needed to cover them. This makes a stronger wheel that is lighter and can withstand more braking force. Pretty on top of things for being "some Chinese company." You have to admit though their wheels can be pretty expensive. They start to creep up into major brand category of price.
> 
> And don't quote me on this but I think they have a full carbon/kevlar wheel too. It won't be long until carbon/kevlar replaces straight carbon on most parts of the bike. It's the next industry step I think.


Im guessing a 25 rim with a 25 rim tyre may not clear a lot of frames. My frame is a cervelo R3/R5 copy, and it seems 25mm tyres on 25mm rims are a no go, but on a 23mm rim they are fine? Can you put 23mm tyres on a 25mm rim? What is they are tubular/clincher? Im thinking of getting tubulars for sure


----------



## ruckus

rider3000 said:


> I was told by Hongfu this morning that they are selling out all their old frames as new stock gets made… she said they are not making the FM015 anymore, so does anybody know what their new frames are like? Their website still looks the same.


Looks like the FM069 2014 is the successor to your FM015. Write down what you like about the FM015 and someone in this thread may able to help you find a frame that has those characteristics. It may not be from HongFu though.
- I would also lean towards a frame with average weight rather than super light, that's me. I'd rather have a frame that isn't compromising anything for weight savings since you will still be able to build a 16-17lb bike easily.

Majory differences I see between FM069 and FM015, most of them positive/improved.
1). FM069 has a tapered seatube. It's as wide as the bottom bracket unlike the FM015 it's a straight tube down. The FM069 tapers to 27.2, and FM015 looks it is 31.6 straight up and down. This also means the FM069 will have a more comfortable/forgiving ride with a thinner tube at the top and thinner seattube.
- It's also square at the bottom. Companies like Giant and Specialized and few others have spent a lot of time marketing that this provides more torsional strength and stability for the bottom bracket and chain stay area. 
2). T1000 carbon and lighter. This means the tensile strength of the carbon used is 1000 ksi (abbreviation for thousand psi). This is how much the carbon can withstand before failure. Benefit I think HongFu decided was to use less carbon with higher strength carbon. It's a gamble. FM015 likely used T700.
3). Internal cabling. This is purely cosmetic, adds no benefit other than appearance. Personally I prefer external, but my CF is also internal routing  External is easier to work with.
4). FM069 has a brazen derailleur piece since it's a squared off tapered seattube. May need a new FD if you had one with a clamp.
5). It's lighter. Both positive and negative. Lighter could mean less reliable. But it is stronger carbon and this would just be guessing. Take it however you will, it's your bike, your money.

Other than that, the rest are the same. Geometry of the bike looks the same. The chainstay, seatstay and headtube and downtube look same to me. Both bikes use a straight toptube which is nice since the rounded of Bianchi and Specialized looks so gay (can't think of a better word to describe it, sorry, it's just so fitting).


----------



## bvber

MMsRepBike said:


> It won't be long until carbon/kevlar replaces straight carbon on most parts of the bike. It's the next industry step I think.


Sheldon Brown site (scroll down half way) has something else to say about Kevlar.
"_Bicycles are generally stiffness-critical structures, i.e. by the time you've added enough material to make it stiff enough it is nearly always strong enough. Kevlar is not as stiff as carbon, and consequently you are typically better off replacing each ply of Kevlar with a ply of carbon. Kevlar is not stiff enough to make a good light weight frame._"


----------



## MMsRepBike

svard75 said:


> Wouldn't a longer screw work just as well?
> 
> Nice alternate bike btw, is that a Chinarello or the real deal?


Nope, the screw is more than long enough. What happens is once enough pressure is applied, meaning as I continue to screw the screw in, it slides down the hanger. It doesn't stay put applying the moving force to the derailleur, instead it just slides down the hanger. I could probably file out a little notch for it so it wouldn't slide down, but I'd rather buy one already designed/built with the notch there.

It's a real Pinarello. It was/is my first bike, I got it last year. I know a shop owner 



saad said:


> Im guessing a 25 rim with a 25 rim tyre may not clear a lot of frames. My frame is a cervelo R3/R5 copy, and it seems 25mm tyres on 25mm rims are a no go, but on a 23mm rim they are fine? Can you put 23mm tyres on a 25mm rim? What is they are tubular/clincher? Im thinking of getting tubulars for sure


True about clearance. Not just frames, but brakes too. Campy brakes are tight on clearance. If it's tubulars you're after the extra width isn't as much of a benefit from what I read. You could be fine with a rim that's more standard width. I don't have the patience for tubulars, but maybe some day. I would think you can put 23's on a wide rim. Tubular is its own world though and I'm not there yet.



bvber said:


> Sheldon Brown site (scroll down half way) has something else to say about Kevlar.
> "_Bicycles are generally stiffness-critical structures, i.e. by the time you've added enough material to make it stiff enough it is nearly always strong enough. Kevlar is not as stiff as carbon, and consequently you are typically better off replacing each ply of Kevlar with a ply of carbon. Kevlar is not stiff enough to make a good light weight frame._"


So I guess we can expect it to remain only used in certain parts of the bike. I wonder if it will ever catch on as a cosmetic outer layer that marketing mumbo jumbo can be attached to?


----------



## SL06

saad said:


> Has anyone ridded the FM069? Apparently same weight as the FM066SL
> 
> And whats the geometry like on the FM066? Is it aggressive, or relaxed? Comparing to a Cervelo R3, it has a shorter headtube, and slightly more reach


Hi, did you get a reply for your question? I did not see anything and I am also interested in the FM069SL frame and how it compare to the FM066SL. 
HI have tried to reach several time HongFu by E-mail (have tried all the address on their site) but no reply. I have tried by Skype this morning but no answer or busy. If someone could give me a E-mail that work , it would be appreciate.


----------



## ruckus

SL06 said:


> Hi, did you get a reply for your question? I did not see anything and I am also interested in the FM069SL frame and how it compare to the FM066SL.
> HI have tried to reach several time HongFu by E-mail (have tried all the address on their site) but no reply. I have tried by Skype this morning but no answer or busy. If someone could give me a E-mail that work , it would be appreciate.


Their CS and marketing is minimal be patient, they will reply. 

The bike is very aggressive. No doubt about it. These bikes are as aggressively designed as a Tarmac SL4 or a Scott Foil or any of the top UCI racing bikes. Only custom bikes made specific for Peter Sagan or Boonen would be more.


----------



## svard75

MMsRepBike said:


> Nope, the screw is more than long enough. What happens is once enough pressure is applied, meaning as I continue to screw the screw in, it slides down the hanger. It doesn't stay put applying the moving force to the derailleur, instead it just slides down the hanger. I could probably file out a little notch for it so it wouldn't slide down, but I'd rather buy one already designed/built with the notch there.
> 
> It's a real Pinarello. It was/is my first bike, I got it last year. I know a shop owner


Yeah that blasted 32t cogs huge for a road rd. Why so big?

Very nice bike!


----------



## nirVELOvana

*Where would you rather your bicycle be manufactured—China or Taiwan?*

I found _this blog entry I stumbled upon_ worth bringing to the attention of the Chinese carbon frame community here. The gist of it is: '_Made in Taiwan_ often reduces down to _Made in China_'

Here is a particularly interesting quote from _that blog_:



Glenn Reeves said:


> "...production agreements [_with big-name bike companies_] depend on Taiwanese suppliers (*with large production facilities in China*) for technical innovation and solutions to problems. You take your design to the manufacturer and they have got to come up with a way to make it happen..."
> ...
> "...The point is that *manufacturing largely takes place in China* although workshops and factories in Taiwan are involved—what gets done where is the outcome of the interplay of a whole host of factors..."
> ...


 Old news? I'll give you that. Still worth repeating in my opinion.


----------



## MMsRepBike

svard75 said:


> Yeah that blasted 32t cogs huge for a road rd. Why so big?
> 
> Very nice bike!


I live in the mountains. I can't ride 10 miles without climbing 1,000ft. My average rides have me going up 17%+ grades and sustained grades over 8%. I used to get by with a 28t max until I made a commitment to cadence. Once I got a power meter and learned that cadence was the best way for me to ride I got the biggest gears offered by Ultegra and watched all of my times drop.

Basically I go faster and longer with a sustained cadence over 90 and because I live in such a hilly area that means sporting a compact 11-32. Same setup many pros use on mountain stages. I don't care about top end sprint speed, just cadence.

So I have a spare Ultegra 6700 53/39 crank, 11/28t cassette and short cage rear derailleur with only about 500 miles on them I have no use for now.


----------



## rider3000

*Quality vote off!! Hongfu FM139 vs Dengfu FM098*

Hi Guys,

Lets have a vote on Quality between these 2 frames… cost and shipping aside.. lets have a quick vote on quality with a very very short motivation next to it.

Please only guys that actually have one and rode them already!

Hongfu FM139 vs Dengfu FM098...


----------



## svard75

MMsRepBike said:


> I live in the mountains. I can't ride 10 miles without climbing 1,000ft. My average rides have me going up 17%+ grades and sustained grades over 8%. I used to get by with a 28t max until I made a commitment to cadence. Once I got a power meter and learned that cadence was the best way for me to ride I got the biggest gears offered by Ultegra and watched all of my times drop.
> 
> Basically I go faster and longer with a sustained cadence over 90 and because I live in such a hilly area that means sporting a compact 11-32. Same setup many pros use on mountain stages. I don't care about top end sprint speed, just cadence.
> 
> So I have a spare Ultegra 6700 53/39 crank, 11/28t cassette and short cage rear derailleur with only about 500 miles on them I have no use for now.


That's awesome! I envy you especially when you get to the top. I think the biggest incline we have around here is about 10-14% and its only 500m or so long. There are a few longer (1km) in the 8-9% range. 
I just had my first outdoor ride this past weekend after a winter of mostly strength training and I suffered ascending 150m in altitude spread over 33kms lol. Need to build my stamina for the hills. Any tips?


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## RaptorTC

rider3000 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Lets have a vote on Quality between these 2 frames… cost and shipping aside.. lets have a quick vote on quality with a very very short motivation next to it.
> 
> Please only guys that actually have one and rode them already!
> 
> Hongfu FM139 vs Dengfu FM098...


Have about 1,000 miles on my FM098 that I built up earlier this year. I've loved it so far. I was coming from a cheapo aluminum Bikes Direct bike with about 6k miles on it, so perhaps that has skewed my opinion a bit, but so far I love the FM098. Also, the FM139 wasn't an option for me since they don't make one big enough.

Anyway, the FM098 has suited me well. Love the stiffness, it just wants to go when you put the power down. I'm a sprinter type and the frame has taken 1,600+ watt sprints without any problems. Rode it in a race with dirt road sections a few weeks ago and it didn't explode so I trust it. Also, had it up to 50+ mph on some mountain descents in Georgia this spring and it was nice and stable.


----------



## beston

I had an FM098. It's a great frame. It rides well; i.e., it corners confidently and feels stable. It wasn't too harsh of a ride and yet feels stiff. The geometry is pretty standard stuff too

Another major benefit (from my perspective) was the internal cable routing. It was a simple as sticking a cable in one side and it pops out the other! Very easy. I have worked on serveral Cervelo's and Specialized Venge's to understand how tricky of a job this can be.

Having said that, I got my hands on a beautiful 2009 Cervelo S2 and had the opportunity to make all my money back by selling the FM098. I took one ride on the S2 and was sold. The S2 was just a 'little' bit better (could be the placebo effect?). It's not a knock on the FM098 though.

I have no experience with the FM139, but from a first glance, the two frames would fit a little differently. The FM139 has a shorter top-tube, but longer seat tube than it's equivalent FM098. So, what this tells me is that a 54cm FM098 will not fit the same as the 54cm FM139. What works for you? Well, that depends on what you like.

Have fun!





rider3000 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Lets have a vote on Quality between these 2 frames… cost and shipping aside.. lets have a quick vote on quality with a very very short motivation next to it.
> 
> Please only guys that actually have one and rode them already!
> 
> Hongfu FM139 vs Dengfu FM098...


----------



## ruckus

rider3000 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Lets have a vote on Quality between these 2 frames… cost and shipping aside.. lets have a quick vote on quality with a very very short motivation next to it.
> 
> Please only guys that actually have one and rode them already!
> 
> Hongfu FM139 vs Dengfu FM098...


You really think there are many who have ridden both of those?


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## MMsRepBike

svard75 said:


> That's awesome! I envy you especially when you get to the top. I think the biggest incline we have around here is about 10-14% and its only 500m or so long. There are a few longer (1km) in the 8-9% range.
> I just had my first outdoor ride this past weekend after a winter of mostly strength training and I suffered ascending 150m in altitude spread over 33kms lol. Need to build my stamina for the hills. Any tips?


My biggest tip is to get a power meter. I chose Stages, most affordable and easiest to install and work with. Second tip is focus on high cadence, keep it above 90. Other than that it's all about practice. When I started riding around here I literally could not make it 5 miles in any direction without having to stop. I used to use stop signs as my landmarks and I would stop at every one of them and rest. Maybe find the biggest hill around and make a point to climb it on the regular. Pacing is very important, that's where the power meter comes in.


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## SL06

Hi, 

I have read a lot of post about the FM066SL. Some people said the ride could be hash but other said that its fine ... etc. Of course person weight and wheelset and other factor also plays. 

The FM066SL is available from HongFu DenFu IPlay and other manufacturer. Price might differ quite a bit. Here is the question, HongFu said that the frame is available in T1000 or T800 carbon but other sell it as T800 carbon. Carbon layout might also differ from one place to another. Those factor might change the stiffnest and the comfort of the bike (and weight and cost...). I am really shopping for the FM069SL but I have the same question. Is it worth to pay a prime for the T1000 or the T800 is fine. And what about stiffness and comfort... 
Note: My Opus Vivace is T1000 carbon and stiffness and comfort is very good.

I am more looking for a direct comparaison of DengFu vs HongFu for exemple, if that is possible.


Thanks,


----------



## MMsRepBike

SL06 said:


> Here is the question, HongFu said that the frame is available in T1000 or T800 carbon but other sell it as T800 carbon. Carbon layout might also differ from one place to another. Those factor might change the stiffnest and the comfort of the bike (and weight and cost...). I am really shopping for the FM069SL but I have the same question. Is it worth to pay a prime for the T1000 or the T800 is fine. And what about stiffness and comfort...
> Note: My Opus Vivace is T1000 carbon and stiffness and comfort is very good.
> 
> I am more looking for a direct comparaison of DengFu vs HongFu for exemple if that is possible.
> 
> 
> Thanks,


I work in a bike shop and we sell Opus. Our best Vivace frame (dura-ace) is T700 carbon. I'm a fan of Opus, we sell a lot of them but I think maybe you have your numbers wrong or they've really downgraded in quality between when you got yours and now. That being said...

I'd always get T1000 if it's an option and I'd also always get 1k weave vs 3k or 12k if it is an option. The higher modulus carbon the better in my opinion and the tighter the weave is the better it looks in my opinion. Given the choice though I always will just choose no outer weave and get a UniDirectional (UD) finish in matte. Or get it raw, polish it yourself a bit, then have it matte clear coated.

The frame choice will have a lot to do with comfort, the material choice a lot to do with stiffness. We can't control or claim to know anything about the layup process on these frames, we just hope they know what they're doing. Mise well pick the best materials you can to have it made out of at least. I'm not so sure about the new frames with the super thin stays and such though. Those make me a touch nervous even it is is T1000. I prefer a bike that has a bit of substance to the stays, at least the chain stays.


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## nirVELOvana

MMsRepBike said:


> Okay, update time
> 
> Today, 4/14, I got my replacement seatpost. Again I didn't get a tracking number or response about one but whatever, it arrived. The replacement is far superior to the original. The front bolt has an o-ring the other one didn't have but the bolt changed from 8mm to 7mm. The back bolt and cup, which cracked on the first one are much better on this one.
> 
> Here are pictures of the new one:
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> 
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> So can I ride it? Does this make it finished?
> It does not. Derailleur hanger doesn't work with big gears
> 
> When I bought the bike, I also bought 4 spare rear derailleur hangers. The ones I bought are the same design/shape as the ones that can be purchased from derailleurhanger.com. However they don't work worth a crap.
> 
> A rear derailleur hanger serves two main purposes, first is a replaceable mount for the derailleur and the second is a post for the b tension screw to tension against. The latter is the problem.
> 
> This bike uses derailleur hanger #148. And when like me you run an 11-32 cassette, you need all the b-tension you can get for proper jockey wheel clearance vs the 32 tooth cog. Well the hanger the bike came with and the ones I bought as extras don't work. The plate the b-tension screw tensions against is not perpendicular and the screw just slides down the hanger instead of tensioning against it.
> 
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> Above is the hanger the bike comes with, the one you can get on ebay for it as a replacement and the one you can get from derailleurhanger.com.
> 
> It doesn't work with my gearing.
> 
> It appears that wheels manufacturing has figured this out. They have their own hanger #148 with an updated design to the b-tension dropout part of the hanger. It has a semi-circular indent to catch and hold the b-tension screw. $32 for the hanger though... grrr.
> 
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> So again I'm waiting for parts but at least Flyxii is off the hook.
> 
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Thanks for the update, MMsRepBike. And congrats on the new seatpost! That's awesome!

Congrats on the speedy resolution too! Two weeks is much quicker than you typically see with the big name "_life-time warrantied_" brands. Chalk one up for our team


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## SL06

The Opus Vivace 2010 was made with T1000 carbon, its writting on the frame in big letter and also in their catalog. I know that they downgrade , I believe, to T800 a year or two after according the sell rep. Did not know that they are now made with T700. Between T1000, and T800 he said that weight and cost was the only difference.

However, big question is DenFu vs HongFu and Other, same model , how they compare?


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## ruckus

SL06 said:


> However, big question is DenFu vs HongFu and Other, same model , how they compare?


They are using T800 and T1000 on their frames. They are making frames that weight 850 grams now with T1000. 

If it's the same model, how would it differ? It would be the same frame made in the same factory... 

What's the question?


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## MMsRepBike

SL06 said:


> However, big question is DenFu vs HongFu and Other, same model , how they compare?


That's something we may not ever know. There doesn't seem to be any one dealer that has a worse reputation than others. I think it's like other replica type industries where there is a factory that makes the product and then there are the dealers that sell it. All we know of are the dealers that sell it, so no matter which we choose it's likely coming from the same factory in the end. Seeing how customer service and warranty are fairly equal across the line it seems any dealer is just as good as the other.


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## SL06

MMsRepBike said:


> That's something we may not ever know. There doesn't seem to be any one dealer that has a worse reputation than others. I think it's like other replica type industries where there is a factory that makes the product and then there are the dealers that sell it. All we know of are the dealers that sell it, so no matter which we choose it's likely coming from the same factory in the end. Seeing how customer service and warranty are fairly equal across the line it seems any dealer is just as good as the other.


I tough that DenFu, HongFu and IPlay are manufacturer, not dealer, that use the same mold like the FM066SL but that make their own product...


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## MMsRepBike

SL06 said:


> I tough that DenFu, HongFu and IPlay are manufacturer, not dealer, that use the same mold like the FM066SL but that make their own product...


What about Cycling Yong and the rest that sell the branded frames? Where do those come from? Some are different. Like the foil one, the branded one has the seatpost clamp that the real one does but the clone uses a different clamping style. 

I understand that HongFu and DengFu seem to only make unbranded frames and sell them themselves but maybe they make them for people that paint them and sell them branded too? Do some of the branded ones come from their own factories? I like the foil clone, I like the one from ICAN I think it is. It would be nice to have a little chart of the different frames out there and their codes and where they are made. Is Flyxii in the same category and HongFu? How many manufacturers are there supposed to be? More questions than anything.


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## ruckus

Flybike is the manufacturer. And yes they do manufacturer for other brands.

The secret that a lot of branded bike owners refuse to believe about Chinese bikes is that, Taiwanese manufacturers have opened up factories or outsource to Chinese factories, or rather have been for a while. Parts and whatnot are made in China and just finished/assembled in Taiwan. It's a dirty secret they don't want to admit, it's easier to bash Chinese carbon when they are one and the same. Many of the huge brands are made by ADK or CIQ etc, who's main manufacturing is now in China, not Taiwan.

The only major difference between open frames and branded is the customer service and marketing. Warranty isn't even that different, not many carbon bikes have lifetime warranty, majority are only two years just like the open frames.


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## saad

I always thought HongFu and DengFu has their own factories? I remember someone actually went and visited the HongFu factory and posted pics etc.

In other news, I'm looking for a bike for my wife - can anyone suggest a chinese frame with a more relaxed geometry and fit, nothign too aggressive as she is new to cycling.

My Feel Bikes Cervelo copy has been painted too, will post pics when it arrives.


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## nirVELOvana

Since this is the Chinese "Year of the Horse", why not get it straight from the horse's mouth?



Shenzhen Hongfu Sports Goods Co. said:


> *Company Description*
> "Our company specializes in manufacturing carbon fiber bicycle frames, forks and other related products. Covering an area of 4,000sqm, our company is located in Huizhou City, Guangdong Province, China. At present, our annual production capacity is up to 10,000 pieces of bicycle frames, forks, rear ends and other spare parts...." read more





Dengfu Sports Equipment Co. said:
 

> *Company Description*
> "Dengfu sports equipment Co., Ltd. was established in 2007. We are the original manufacturer of the carbon bicycle frame,*Our factory Established on March 2007, specializes in manufacturing carbon fiber bicycle frames*, forks and other related products. Covering an area of 3,000 sqm, the company is located in Huiyang District, Huizhou City, Guangdong Province, P.R. China. At present, the annual production capacity is up to 6,000 bicycle frames, forks, rear ends and other spare parts. Our products are strictly according to EN testing standard..." read more


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## nirVELOvana

Oh yeah. I almost forgot all them Zhongwei fans out there. _Zhongwei's_ star has enjoyed an astronomical rise in popularity here lately...



ZhongWei Composite Material Co. said:


> *Company Description*
> 
> "ZhongWei Composite Material Co., Ltd is a class technology carbon fiber products manufacture located in shen zhen covers an area of 2,500 square meters.
> 
> Currently we have eight experienced carbon bike engineers, they make full protection in the development, production, quality controlling areas. They have carbon fiber experience of 7-13 years.
> 
> We have several sets of advanced CNC, engraving machine, scanner machine. Achieve customer's requirements in the shortest time..." read more


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## ruckus

From another thread, those are apparently FlyBike factories. Weight Weenies has a thread on it explaining pretty much anyone can ask FlyBike to arrange for a factory tour.

But doesn't matter. As long as you know it's coming from a clean factory that is using industry standards to build them. Using quality carbon with T700 to T1000 tensile strength. And can see they have the equipment to test to ensure frames are safe with EN standards.

At least that's what should matter for whoever has any qualms about the manufacturing process of a HongFu, DengFu, ICAN or Flyxii bike.


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## nirVELOvana

ruckus said:


> From another thread, those are apparently FlyBike factories. Weight Weenies has a thread on it explaining pretty much anyone can ask FlyBike to arrange for a factory tour.
> 
> But doesn't matter. As long as you know it's coming from a clean factory that is using industry standards to build them. Using quality carbon with T700 to T1000 tensile strength. And can see they have the equipment to test to ensure frames are safe with EN standards.
> 
> At least that's what should matter for whoever has any qualms about the manufacturing process of a HongFu, DengFu, ICAN or Flyxii bike.


Well. What do we have here then? Another choice between _origin stories_? Big Bang? Or Old Testament? :wink:

On the one hand, we have an undisclosed source from weight-weenies (_owned, sponsored and moderated by a retail bike business_). On the other hand we have alibaba's so-called, "_Onsite Checks_":



Shenzhen Zhongwei Composite Material Co. said:


> *Onsite Check*
> "The supplier's company premises has been checked by Alibaba.com staff to ensure onsite operations exist there. A third-party verification company has confirmed the legal status of the supplier..."
> read more





Alibaba Group said:


> *Onsite Check*
> "Onsite Check is a verification process for China Gold Suppliers. The supplier’s company premises is checked by Alibaba.com’s staff to ensure onsite operations exist there. The suppliers’ legal status and other related information are then confirmed by a third party verification agency."
> learn more...



And on the third hand, we have bike industry-targeted articles (like this one, for example) that can be taken many different ways (_depending on what one *wants* to believe_):



Stephen Frothingham | bikeretailer.com said:


> ...Still, it’s undeniable that there are lots of frames and other products coming direct from Chinese factories into consumers’ hands. Where are they coming from? Mostly B-level factories, Wittenberg said.
> 
> “There are always some really, really small carbon guys with a set of molds and a press who are starving for business. There are new guys all the time,” he said...


What I take away from that bikeretailer.com article is, "_small carbon guys_" is relative (_small compared to Giant?_). And "_B-level factories_". What is an "_*A*-level factory_"? Since I was always a _B-level_ student throughout my academic career, I have a soft spot for the _B-level_ underdogs of the world :wink:

I guess the veracity of any kind of "_origin story_" depends on what an individual person (_with their subjective bents and personal preferences_) *wants* to believe. 

With that said, we do agree on what should *really* matter.


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## ruckus

I like my Flyxii. Shipping was fast and the ride is good.


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## MMsRepBike

saad said:


> I always thought HongFu and DengFu has their own factories? I remember someone actually went and visited the HongFu factory and posted pics etc.
> 
> In other news, I'm looking for a bike for my wife - can anyone suggest a chinese frame with a more relaxed geometry and fit, nothign too aggressive as she is new to cycling.
> 
> My Feel Bikes Cervelo copy has been painted too, will post pics when it arrives.


There are no doubt several factories in China producing these frames. And as I stated earlier there doesn't seem to be any noticeable area of complaint. Meaning that all of them seem to be doing a fairly good job which then brings us to a similar standard that the retail market holds: All manufacturers are similar in where their stuff comes from and all of them are doing a fine job. As has been pointed out by others and my own experience, the customer service if there's a problem seems right on par with the big boys (warranty claims) so all in all it's a straight up wash. Once someone becomes as educated as I am on this matter (only about a month of reading) it becomes hard to not choose one of these frames. I believe it ends up not being a matter of quality or concern of such but only a matter of image. That's where the appeal splits between the counterfeit frames and the unbranded open mold ones. In either case it's not good for manufacturers. 

As for a relaxed geometry open mold frame, I think the one I have is a perfect fit. Just make sure to order a frame on the large end of the spectrum because it's naturally a very small/tight frame. FR-315. My size 52 frame would be good as a comfort fit for someone that's probably 5'4" or so. I'm 5'8" and it's very aggressive.


----------



## Ashbringer

i’m still looking for a frame fixes me...and it's a little hard,i want a frame with 505mm toptube horizontal.
View attachment 294612

how about this one? it looks like a Avanti Corsa DR.
View attachment 294613


costs $400+


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## saad

MMsRepBike said:


> There are no doubt several factories in China producing these frames. And as I stated earlier there doesn't seem to be any noticeable area of complaint. Meaning that all of them seem to be doing a fairly good job which then brings us to a similar standard that the retail market holds: All manufacturers are similar in where their stuff comes from and all of them are doing a fine job. As has been pointed out by others and my own experience, the customer service if there's a problem seems right on par with the big boys (warranty claims) so all in all it's a straight up wash. Once someone becomes as educated as I am on this matter (only about a month of reading) it becomes hard to not choose one of these frames. I believe it ends up not being a matter of quality or concern of such but only a matter of image. That's where the appeal splits between the counterfeit frames and the unbranded open mold ones. In either case it's not good for manufacturers.
> 
> As for a relaxed geometry open mold frame, I think the one I have is a perfect fit. Just make sure to order a frame on the large end of the spectrum because it's naturally a very small/tight frame. FR-315. My size 52 frame would be good as a comfort fit for someone that's probably 5'4" or so. I'm 5'8" and it's very aggressive.


Thanks for that. Which seller did you get yours from?


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## DrFragnasty

Interested in building a lightweight credit-card tourer based on this Flyxii frame @ 56cm.
Thoughts?

FLYXI









Chris.


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## MMsRepBike

Ashbringer said:


> i’m still looking for a frame fixes me...and it's a little hard,i want a frame with 505mm toptube horizontal.
> how about this one? it looks like a Avanti Corsa DR.
> costs $400+


I can understand wanting a range, like maybe a 490 to 510 or so based on other geometry, but to say you want a bike with a 50.5 top tube and that's the criteria is seriously limiting. The rest of the geometry is very important. The head tube height plays a big factor, so will the seat tube. May I ask where you got this criteria from? Seeing how you've already picked your top tube length you must already know your exact seat setback and stem length you want as well right? If I were you, I'd be more open with measurements and try to understand the frame as a whole instead of just one tube, just my advice. 



saad said:


> Thanks for that. Which seller did you get yours from?


I bought mine on ebay from etatime. 




DrFragnasty said:


> Interested in building a lightweight credit-card tourer based on this Flyxii frame @ 56cm.
> Thoughts?
> 
> FLYXI
> 
> View attachment 294615
> 
> 
> Chris.


I don't see any reason why it couldn't be a fantastic tourer minus the fact that it doesn't have any fender mounts. Credit card touring doesn't really require any fenders or racks, I understand that, but a lot use them anyway. If I were thinking of getting a tourer though I would strongly consider one of the cyclocross frames instead of a road bike frame. Cyclocross bikes have a much more relaxed and upright riding position as a general rule and are better suited for touring geometry wise in my opinion.


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## DrFragnasty

Hi MMsRepbike,

Good points on the fender mounts and geometry.

Thesedays with a set of Crud Catcher 2s and a rear Tubus Rack you can fit out any roadie as a tourer:

View attachment 294618



View attachment 294619


As for geometry I'm not a big fan of cyclocross frames.


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## Ashbringer

MMsRepBike said:


> I can understand wanting a range, like maybe a 490 to 510 or so based on other geometry, but to say you want a bike with a 50.5 top tube and that's the criteria is seriously limiting. The rest of the geometry is very important. The head tube height plays a big factor, so will the seat tube. May I ask where you got this criteria from? Seeing how you've already picked your top tube length you must already know your exact seat setback and stem length you want as well right? If I were you, I'd be more open with measurements and try to understand the frame as a whole instead of just one tube, just my advice.


thanks for your advice.the confusion comes frome my height,i am an asian,height of 163cm only.due to the different propotion of body,my arms are shorter.
this frame's seat angle is 73.8 (505 size),it helps.my stem could be 90mm,and handbar could be a Pro plt with 70mm reach.
the set im using is a little bigger for me,horizontal top tube lenght is 515,90mm stem and 80mm's handbar reach,the effective total reach is a little long.


----------



## MMsRepBike

DrFragnasty said:


> Hi MMsRepbike,
> 
> Good points on the fender mounts and geometry.
> 
> Thesedays with a set of Crud Catcher 2s and a rear Tubus Rack you can fit out any roadie as a tourer:
> 
> As for geometry I'm not a big fan of cyclocross frames.


Well if you want a rear Tubus you'll want the seatpost mount, so only restriction there is to get a frame with a round seatpost, not an aero one. And seeing how you won't really be carrying much weight I don't really see any need for disc brakes. Also seeing how you prefer the geometry of a road bike... that really opens up your options. 

Any frame with decently thick stays and a round seatpost will fit your need as far as I can see. The one you have picked out is good and if you want disc brakes regardless than it's a really good choice. I personally am waiting for Shimano to release the next couple generations of road specific disc brakes, ones branded Dura-Ace and Ultegra. The key will be to get the right gearing for the terrain you'll be touring. The new 105 lost its triple option so if you want a triple you'll need to go with the 5700 series. 




Ashbringer said:


> thanks for your advice.the confusion comes frome my height,i am an asian,height of 163cm only.due to the different propotion of body,my arms are shorter.
> this frame's seat angle is 73.8 (505 size),it helps.my stem could be 90mm,and handbar could be a Pro plt with 70mm reach.
> the set im using is a little bigger for me,horizontal top tube lenght is 515,90mm stem and 80mm's handbar reach,the effective total reach is a little long.



You are indeed going to have a bit of trouble finding a good frame for you that fits. A lot of these frames don't come in a small size with the geometry you will need. The open mold and replica manufacturers tend to use less molds and offer only those sizes due to cost restraints. Probably simply not enough volume to support new molds for the smaller sizes. I've looked over a lot of them and I'm not finding anything yet that would suit you. I'll keep checking around though. You might end up having to go to a bike shop or at least go online and order a branded frame. The major manufacturers will have sizes that fit.

Now that I think about it, it might work in your favor. There might be some nice frames/bikes from the past year or two sitting in storage on closeout from very nice brands for very cheap. It may be to your advantage to call around or look around for such a deal.


----------



## nirVELOvana

Ashbringer said:


> thanks for your advice.the confusion comes frome my height,i am an asian,height of 163cm only.due to the different propotion of body,my arms are shorter.
> this frame's seat angle is 73.8 (505 size),it helps.my stem could be 90mm,and handbar could be a Pro plt with 70mm reach.
> the set im using is a little bigger for me,horizontal top tube lenght is 515,90mm stem and 80mm's handbar reach,the effective total reach is a little long.


I recently had a 3D fit. I'm 5' 7" (_170cm I believe_). The top tube length (_effective_) of my bike is 54.8cm. My fitter recommended I replace my -6° 90mm stem, with an 80mm one flipped up to +6°. The seat tube and fork angles are 73° and 73.1° respectively. My bars have a 77mm reach/123mm drop (_also recommended by the fitter_). I was reluctant at first to go shorter than 90mm because I was worried an 80mm stem would make handling feel "_skittish_". Turns out I needn't have worried. 

After implementing the fitter's suggestions, the difference in handling is neglible-to-none.But the removal of the neck and shoulder pain I had with my pre-fit setup, is remarkable. I would characterize the post-fit handling as "_crisp_". 

I've seen 50mm, 60mm stems out there. Granted, they were not road bike-specific (_intended for BMX-ers, if I recall correctly_). But still...

You'll have no doubt seen _this_ before I assume.


----------



## ruckus

Have you used the fit calculator from competitive cyclist? I used this to get a frame and then adjust with seat and stem.

Smallest I've seen for an open frame is 50cm size with 51 top tube I believe.

They primarily just make 50-58 sizes. But I read a blog, someone asked if they would make a 60cm. If you can convince them enough people are looking for that size, maybe they will make a mold for you. IF... they think it will be worthwhile.

I would try seeing if maybe a size 50 + shirt stem and a straight no setback seatpost would work for you.


----------



## nirVELOvana

ruckus said:


> Have you used the fit calculator from competitive cyclist? I used this to get a frame and then adjust with seat and stem.


These fit calculators have their place. No question. I've used two or three of them myself in the past (_including the C.C. one, and the one I linked to above _). But given a choice between a few lines of javascript and a human fitter that knows their stuff — my money's on the human.

I'd advise somebody in Ashbringer's situation to find a good real-life professional fitter.


----------



## ruckus

Man these LBS shops much love fitting! $500 for 3 hours of watching you sweat? So they can help you fit onto a bike they know you shouldn't be riding? I love it.

Not saying this is the case, but every time I read about it on other forums, it's almost always some dude who is riding a bike that was meant for racing, aero riding style but needed a $500 fitting so they can ride it like a touring bike. It's pathetic.

It's sad some cyclists are so vain that they have to have the fastest looking carbon even though they have the flexibility of concrete.

But given this situation may not be a bad idea. Though I hate asking for service from a brick and motor shop with no intentions of buying from them.



MMsRepBike said:


> f I were thinking of getting a tourer though I would strongly consider one of the cyclocross frames instead of a road bike frame. Cyclocross bikes have a much more relaxed and upright riding position as a general rule and are better suited for touring geometry wise in my opinion.


I can vouch that Flyxii bikes are aggressive. I had sense these frames are targeted at people who know bikes well enough to build them and for folks who want a carbon bike for racing, but don't want to race a $3000 frame. Combining that, in general, these are for people who can ride a racing geometry, whether it's for commuter or racing, for people who have that kind of flexibility.


----------



## nirVELOvana

ruckus said:


> Man these LBS shops much love fitting! $500 for 3 hours of watching you sweat? So they can help you fit onto a bike they know you shouldn't be riding? I love it.
> 
> Not saying this is the case, but every time I read about it on other forums, it's almost always some dude who is riding a bike that was meant for racing, aero riding style but needed a $500 fitting so they can ride it like a touring bike. It's pathetic.
> 
> It's sad some cyclists are so vain that they have to have the fastest looking carbon even though they have the flexibility of concrete.
> 
> But given this situation may not be a bad idea. Though I hate asking for service from a brick and motor shop with no intentions of buying from them.
> 
> 
> 
> I can vouch that Flyxii bikes are aggressive. I had sense these frames are targeted at people who know bikes well enough to build them and for folks who want a carbon bike for racing, but don't want to race a $3000 frame. Combining that, in general, these are for people who can ride a racing geometry, whether it's for commuter or racing, for people who have that kind of flexibility.


The first bike fit I ever had was an old-fashioned, manual plumb-bob type affair done at a bike shop where I've spent maybe $50 in total (_if that_) over the entire 8 years I've lived in the area. That $50 includes the bike fit. The bike was a hybrid; not a road bike.

My 3D bike fit I had done at a bio-mechanical research facility in a teaching hospital near me. That set me back the princely sum of $80. They use a motion-capture rig and software that is even more cutting-edge than Retul's. The fitter guy is also Retul-accredited. The curing of my neck and shoulder issue alone was worth three times the $80 — at least.

As far as flexibility goes, a person's _*overall*_ physiology is more important - _in my opinion _- than what flexibility they have in a particular joint, particular muscle group or particular area of their body. For example, some pro racers' backs are so curved that they couldn't get into that super straight-backed aero position to save their lives. But that doesn't stop them from being faster than you and me put together.

Why would Joe BeerGut buy an aero road bike even though in reality he can't even see his toes — much less bend over to touch them? Who knows. Why do people buy cars that go 300 m.p.h. when the speed limit is 55 — and they never drive anywhere more than 10 miles from where they live? Who knows?

Why would some people opt to "_Slam That Stem_" and endure tortuously painful rides (_but look uber-cool while they're biting the bullet with every pedal stroke_) rather than install 10-15mm of spacers? Who knows?

I know nobody asked. But for the record, my fitter guy summarized my flexibility as...



nirVELOvana's fitter guy said:


> ...
> "Overall flexibility is fine. Apparent leg
> length difference of +5mm right (not sufficient
> to consider shim)."
> ...


----------



## f3rg

nirVELOvana said:


> Why would some people opt to "_Slam That Stem_" and endure tortuously painful rides (_but look uber-cool while they're biting the bullet with every pedal stroke_) rather than install 10-15mm of spacers? Who knows?


Every time I slam my stem a little more, a few rides later, I feel like I should have gone even further. Now that I'm using a -25° stem, I think I'll just leave it alone, although I'm certain another half-inch of drop would feel even better.  Yeah, and I spend most of my time in the drops. It's nice to be flexy.


----------



## rich24

*Hungfu payment??*

After a bad experience with a frame seller from China I am more coutious. 
I want to buy a frame from Hungfu (FM166) . I asked for an invoice through Paypal. But I got a Money request and email address for payment is strange : [email protected].

What do you think? Any experience or advice.

Thanks


----------



## ruckus

@f3rg that's nuthin. There is a CAT 2 racer who rides a ride Aluminum with HED carbon wheels, his setup is insane. My neck hurts just looking at his bike.
- Your slammed stem and -25 looks awesome, beautiful to me. And amazed that you have the flexibility to ride it like that. awesome. high five!

But whatever works, man, he's not racing CAT 2 at 40+ years old for no reason, he knows his stuff.

His commentary on his races are very entertaining.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRJrWJ09Mwc


----------



## Ashbringer

nirVELOvana said:


> These fit calculators have their place. No question. I've used two or three of them myself in the past (_including the C.C. one, and the one I linked to above _). But given a choice between a few lines of javascript and a human fitter that knows their stuff — my money's on the human.
> 
> I'd advise somebody in Ashbringer's situation to find a good real-life professional fitter.


well,the worse is,its a little hard to get a professional bike fitting in China.and it costs about $400 for a 3D fitting,a simple fitting could be cheaper,but the shop is quite far away.
its quite easy to get those open model frames here,the shipping could even takes one day,but i have been confusing which one fits me for a long time...
LOL


----------



## MMsRepBike

rich24 said:


> After a bad experience with a frame seller from China I am more coutious.
> I want to buy a frame from Hungfu (FM166) . I asked for an invoice through Paypal. But I got a Money request and email address for payment is strange : [email protected].
> 
> What do you think? Any experience or advice.
> 
> Thanks


Experience says paypal is paypal. The "weird" address isn't weird, pretty standard. I'd go through with it. These people act super fast, you'll have your frame before you can even look up how long the paypal claim window is.


----------



## ruckus

Ashbringer said:


> well,the worse is,its a little hard to get a professional bike fitting in China.and it costs about $400 for a 3D fitting,a simple fitting could be cheaper,but the shop is quite far away.
> its quite easy to get those open model frames here,the shipping could even takes one day,but i have been confusing which one fits me for a long time...
> LOL


Ashbringer what I did was I experimented with a cheap bike first. I experimented with different size stems and handlebars and saddles and different heights on the stem and saddle etc on a cheap used aluminum race bike. 

I used that experience to buy my current frame. It's a suggestion, maybe you can try too? 




MMsRepBike said:


> Experience says paypal is paypal. The "weird" address isn't weird, pretty standard. I'd go through with it. These people act super fast, you'll have your frame before you can even look up how long the paypal claim window is.


Just to confirm the quickness of these sellers, I paid for my frame with Paypal, it was processed and shipped in less than a day. At my door in 5 days on a Saturday via USPS. 
- My frame arrived before all other parts I ordered on Ebay from US sellers did!




nirVELOvana said:


> As far as flexibility goes, a person's _*overall*_ physiology is more important - _in my opinion _- than what flexibility they have in a particular joint, particular muscle group or particular area of their body. For example, some pro racers' backs are so curved that they couldn't get into that super straight-backed aero position to save their lives. But that doesn't stop them from being faster than you and me put together.
> 
> Why would Joe BeerGut buy an aero road bike even though in reality he can't even see his toes — much less bend over to touch them? Who knows. Why do people buy cars that go 300 m.p.h. when the speed limit is 55 — and they never drive anywhere more than 10 miles from where they live? Who knows?
> 
> Why would some people opt to "_Slam That Stem_" and endure tortuously painful rides (_but look uber-cool while they're biting the bullet with every pedal stroke_) rather than install 10-15mm of spacers? Who knows?




I hope you read that I wasn't slamming all LBS fitting. It was just one specific kind. I definitely see where it has it's place. My co-worker had one done, sweated on a bike for 3 hours. But that was because he was training for Iron Man and he wanted the best fit possible for 120 competitive miles (He supposedly finished in 9.5 hours, dunno if it's true cause in a year he grew a massive beer gut, he snacks a ton). Or if do have some issue and unable to rectify alone.

But I still think it's very vain to see a 280 pound dude riding a Cervelo S5 like a touring bike. Cause I believe that in a month or so when I go through Craigslist like I often do, his bike will be listed. I thought I would be into cycling and spent enormous amounts but changed my mind crud...
- It's simply incredible how many of these I see. Some of the best bikes on the planet. For months I saw some dude trying to unload his $8,500 EVO Hi-Mod with only a few hundred miles cause it turned out, cycling was too hard for him.


----------



## nirVELOvana

ruckus said:


> ...
> 
> I hope you read that I wasn't slamming all LBS fitting. It was just one specific kind. I definitely see where it has it's place. My co-worker had one done, sweated on a bike for 3 hours. But that was because he was training for Iron Man and he wanted the best fit possible for 120 competitive miles (He supposedly finished in 9.5 hours, dunno if it's true cause in a year he grew a massive beer gut, he snacks a ton). Or if do have some issue and unable to rectify alone.
> 
> But I still think it's very vain to see a 280 pound dude riding a Cervelo S5 like a touring bike. Cause I believe that in a month or so when I go through Craigslist like I often do, his bike will be listed. I thought I would be into cycling and spent enormous amounts but changed my mind crud...
> - It's simply incredible how many of these I see. Some of the best bikes on the planet. For months I saw some dude trying to unload his $8,500 EVO Hi-Mod with only a few hundred miles cause it turned out, cycling was too hard for him.


Nah! I didn't read anything personally offensive into your comment about bike shop fits. I was just seizing the opportunity to bring to the communities attention yet another less costly, non-branded alternative that's out there. This time high-tech 3D bike fits. I'm aware of at least a dozen U.S. colleges/universities, clinics and what-have-you (_either state-funded or sport nutrition industry-funded_) that have state-of-the art equipment for doing 3D bike fitting.

Anybody interested might try googling something like _"biomechanical research cycling university bike fit"_ to see if any of the schools in their state (_or country_) have such a program. The odds are good there's probably something similar in a lot of other schools world-wide. 

In addition to affordable 3D bike fits, I sometimes get dental work done at a teaching hospital too. The dental work I had done 10 years ago by a nubile blonde dental coed, is still going strong. A root canal and full cleaning cost every bit of $90 at the time.

Oh! And I also realized the answer to all those "_Why_" questions I asked in my last post. The reason why for all of the above is the same reason why people really, really need their 5 miles-to-the-galloon 4 wheel-drive armoured all-terrain vehicles to take little Cody and Madison to and from school 2 blocks away :wink:

Or if you prefer that paraphrased in the style of the inimitable David Byrne:



Talking Heads - Once In A Lifetime said:


> ...Same as it ever was...


----------



## nirVELOvana

rich24 said:


> After a bad experience with a frame seller from China I am more coutious.
> I want to buy a frame from Hungfu (FM166) . I asked for an invoice through Paypal. But I got a Money request and email address for payment is strange : [email protected].
> 
> What do you think? Any experience or advice.
> 
> Thanks


Is there any chance they maybe inadvertently misinterpreted some English words you might have misspelled — to where they couldn't understand what you were talking about?

I would hazard a guess that English is not as fluently understood by the majority of people in China as a lot of people might expect. If English isn't your native language either, then If I were you, I would either take a crash course in Mandarin or Cantonese to make sure you're being understood. Short of that, my advice would be to run all your emails to them through your spellchecker.


----------



## BikeInCanada

nirVELOvana said:


> Is there any chance they maybe inadvertently misinterpreted some English words you might have misspelled — to where they couldn't understand what you were talking about?
> 
> I would hazard a guess that English is not as fluently understood by the majority of people in China as a lot of people might expect. If English isn't your native language either, then If I were you, I would either take a crash course in Mandarin or Cantonese to make sure you're being understood. Short of that, my advice would be to run all your emails to them through your spellchecker.


Some other advice ... Don't use google translate lol

My first interactions with zhongwei, I tried google translate thinking "hey, this is a good idea." Turns out .. Nope. The first email response I got was "what are you saying? Can you send in English?"

Oops lol


----------



## psalm116

*Has anyone bought a carbon frame from OEM-Carbon?*

Hello,

I've been trying to due my homework on OEM Carbon (Chinese Carbon Co.) oem carbon performance bikes china 

but I can't much info on them - has anyone bought from them and if so, do you have any advice to protect myself.

Thanks


----------



## Ashbringer

BikeInCanada said:


> Some other advice ... Don't use google translate lol
> 
> My first interactions with zhongwei, I tried google translate thinking "hey, this is a good idea." Turns out .. Nope. The first email response I got was "what are you saying? Can you send in English?"
> 
> Oops lol


yup,that's true,just just talk to them in english directly,they can read it.I'm a Chinese,and i learnt English for just 3 years when i was a high school student,and i can read this thread now.Most of their sellers are gratuated from colleges,they can talk in english well,do not worried about this.


----------



## ruckus

Those are counterfeits.

For example, Colnago C59 are all made in Italy using bonded tubes.

Probably better off just looking for something used on Ebay than getting these replicas. I dunno. Haven't read of anyone buying one of these yet.


----------



## 00Garza

Looks like just another generic reseller of Chinese carbon that I personally have never heard of. Btw, you might get better responses posting this in the chinese carbon thread that's stickied at the top of the page.

Lots of guys (including myself) there that have already done the legwork or have experience with the more reputable sellers.
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...ead-ebay-direct-version-6-0-a-272806-177.html


----------



## looigi

ruckus said:


> Those are counterfeits.....


To give credit where credit is due, the site does specifically say they are replicas. They are copies and likely infringe on trademarks, but at least they don't appear to be claiming they're authentic.


----------



## nirVELOvana

First time I've ever heard of 'em too. But they've got the slickest-looking Chinese carbon frame site I've ever seen!

All I know is I need one of _their deer handlebars_. My slammed stem is not painful enough:



Dude!!! I Want That! LOL!


----------



## 00Garza

looigi said:


> To give credit where credit is due, the site does specifically say they are replicas. They are copies and likely infringe on trademarks, but at least they don't appear to be claiming they're authentic.


I would much rather go open mould than replica, but not so much for the whole trademark issue. I just wonder how much effort goes into making it look like the real deal, rather than making a quality frame.

That said, it appears this seller carries both replicas and open moulds.


----------



## psalm116

00Garza said:


> Looks like just another generic reseller of Chinese carbon that I personally have never heard of. Btw, you might get better responses posting this in the chinese carbon thread that's stickied at the top of the page.
> 
> Lots of guys (including myself) there that have already done the legwork or have experience with the more reputable sellers.
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...ead-ebay-direct-version-6-0-a-272806-177.html


I was searching on that thread, but the replica Venge on OEM caught my attention. Is there certain questions I should ask before buying?

Again - I appreciate everybody's feedback so far!


----------



## nirVELOvana

Ashbringer said:


> well,the worse is,its a little hard to get a professional bike fitting in China.and it costs about $400 for a 3D fitting,a simple fitting could be cheaper,but the shop is quite far away.
> its quite easy to get those open model frames here,the shipping could even takes one day,but i have been confusing which one fits me for a long time...
> LOL


In lieu of a good human fitter, if I were in your shoes, I would start by working out what is a reasonable _stack and reach_ and _top tube length (effective)_ for you, by using a bike you feel comfortable riding as a frame of reference.

After you have those numbers, then you've simply gotta pound the virtual pavement. Hit up all your favorite supplier sites. Message them with as many questions as you feel you need to ask in order to become *your own* expert on your frame(s) of choice. You can gauge how trustworthy and reliable a suppler will be in future dealings, by how quickly, how satisfactorily and how comprehensively they answer your questions. If I were you, Ashbringer, my first and foremost question would be, "_Do you have in stock (or can you special order from your factory) frame X in size Y by date Z?_". 

Secondly, insist (_politely and respectfully, of course_) that they send you the full technical specs *AND* geometry drawings (_there's often a crucial difference between those two; the subtlety of which could be lost on some sales agents — who don't always share our enthusiasm for bikes_).

In my opinion, your objective should be to find a frame with at least the same or similar _stack, reach_, _top tube length (effective)_ numbers as the most comfortable bike you'll have chosen to use as your reference. And maybe also the same or similar _wheelbase_ numbers?

There's no magic to sourcing bike stuff from China. The only way *anybody* is sure to find what they want, is to ask as many suppliers as one can find, if they have specifically what you want. As simple as that.


----------



## 00Garza

psalm116 said:


> I was searching on that thread, but the *replica Venge on OEM caught my attention.* Is there certain questions I should ask before buying?
> 
> Again - I appreciate everybody's feedback so far!


Thats precisely why I would steer clear of replicas. It could be a decent frame for all we know, but their selling point is that they're replicas, not performance. I bought my frame based on reviews written by people who rode it. That's going to be your best source of info.

If you're absolutely set on getting the replica from this seller, make sure they use paypal (most sellers do) for their record keeping and claim services. The reason I recommend a more reputable seller is in case you need post sale support. I don't know what kind of support you'll get from an unknown seller if any.


----------



## kleek

psalm116 said:


> I was searching on that thread, but the replica Venge on OEM caught my attention. Is there certain questions I should ask before buying?
> 
> Again - I appreciate everybody's feedback so far!


I'm inclined to agree with Garza here. I lurked around this forum and posted on Velobuild occasionally when sourcing my frame. I get where you're coming from as I own a replica venge frame; its an attractive option to own a frame that looks the real deal but costs a fraction of the price be it through aesthetics or "performance". My frame has been great for me personally but I do find myself thinking whether it would have been a better choice going open mould as others have stated before that the replicas could just be built up to look right.

Anyway to get back on topic, like Garza said, perhaps try a more reputable seller where others have had experience dealing with them. If you are indeed set on that particular frame but from another seller I recommend Zhongwei either direct or through Velobuild. The frame is designated R-041 from them and I reckon it would be cheaper than the USD$800 OEM are asking for (paintwork might cost extra)


----------



## ruckus

psalm116 said:


> I was searching on that thread, but the replica Venge on OEM caught my attention. Is there certain questions I should ask before buying?
> 
> Again - I appreciate everybody's feedback so far!


Like previous poster said, you really have to consider that this bike focus was on replicating another bike and not ensuring it has the ride performance of it.

Venge is built a certain way for strength and performance. You sure this company knows how the carbon was layered and where it was layered and how it was all done to make sure it looks great and performance that way and is reliable?


----------



## RaptorTC

psalm116 said:


> I was searching on that thread, but the replica Venge on OEM caught my attention. Is there certain questions I should ask before buying?
> 
> Again - I appreciate everybody's feedback so far!



Don't buy it. If you want something that looks like a Venge then get the FM098 from Deng Fu. Tons of people own them and have written good reviews all across the net. And they're their own thing, not a pure "replica". Inspired by the Venge? Most definitely. But there are tons of differences that show they're not just straight copies.


----------



## 00Garza

kleek said:


> I recommend Zhongwei either direct or through Velobuild. The frame is designated R-041 from them and I reckon it would be cheaper than the _*USD$800*_ OEM are asking for (paintwork might cost extra)


Hadn't noticed the price. Yeah, thats really high by chinese carbon standards. Even with a custom paint job it'll be way cheaper with other known sellers. I can also vouch for Zhongwei. The rep (Chris) was very helpful and great to work with.


----------



## asianarnold1

RaptorTC said:


> Don't buy it. If you want something that looks like a Venge then get the FM098 from Deng Fu. Tons of people own them and have written good reviews all across the net. And they're their own thing, not a pure "replica". Inspired by the Venge? Most definitely. But there are tons of differences that show they're not just straight copies.


what he says. 
i ordered myself an fm098 with custom graphics(delivery by end of apr2014). i ride fast flat hammerfest saturday rides, and venges are all around me. i will stand out more than them, even more so when i tell them the price. hah!


----------



## nirVELOvana

00Garza said:


> ...I can also vouch for Zhongwei. *The rep (Chris)* was very helpful and great to work with.


If that's the same _Chris (Chris Mei?)_ I think it is, then he doesn't work for Zhongwei anymore. _Velobuild hired him to run their new China operation_

Oh! And to bring some equity into the discussion of replicas — I actually own a replica aero frame myself. Paid $600 for it. A mechanic at a bike shop that is an authorized dealer of the brand my frame is a reproduction of, looked over it once. He reluctantly conceded that it is an impressively faithful reproduction. Right down to the esoteric asymmetrical bottom bracket shell that is typically seen implemented only on the originals. Granted — that was just based on tape measurer and digital caliper measurements . To his credit, he also conceded he was not a carbon fiber expert and therefore (_barring finite element analysis_) there was no way he could *objectively* assess how well the carbon fiber manufacture was implemented. 

*Any* bike's performance or riding quality — _irregardless of MSRP_ — is _*always*_ gonna be down to an individual rider's subjective perception. I've said it before and I'll say it again: "_Unless totally different laws of physics apply to more expensive bikes, there is no way *any* bike feels better to ride (*to me*) than my reproduction one!_". 

It behooves you, OP, to bear in mind that 95% of the people that negatively assess replica bikes, have never actually ridden them themselves. You gotta ask yourself, "_Why is that?_" — and take any apocryphal anecdotes with a grain of salt.

I do agree with the others on one thing though. You could get the same frame — _which, in all likelihood would come from the same factory as the oem-carbon.com one_ — for a heck of a lot less than $800.

I suspect oem-carbon,com might be the brainchild of the entreprenurial "_Chad_" quoted in _this bikeretailer.com article_...


let's call him said:


> ...Besides the wheels he’s eyeing, Chad sees opportunity in the market.
> 
> “I think a lot of guys are scared of buying from China. I’d like to order a few dozen frames and sell them. I could mark them up a few hundred dollars and they’d still be cheaper than the big company bikes,” he said.


...So "_Chad_" is either the brains behind oem-carbon.com or the admin running velobuild.com :wink:


----------



## Aeroengy

Hello all! I have been lurking here for awhile debating getting an FM098. I finally decided to go for it and it arrived yesterday. I haven't started the build yet as I am waiting on a couple parts. However, I did test fit a few things and found a couple of minor ( I hope) issues that I wonder if anyone else has seen with recent FM098 frames.

First the seatpost seems to rock slightly front to back. I inserted the seatpost about 3/4 of the way and tightned to the clamp. It feels kind of solid up/down but it is able to rock front/back a bit. I can here it click as the seatpost hits the inside of the seattube when I am rocking it back and forth. It seems like either the seatpost is to small or the seatube widens a bit as you go down. Has anyone else come across this? Is there any easy fix (shim etc.) that I should try?

Secondly (and easier to fix) is that some of cable guides under the bottom bracket dead head up against a ridge of carbon. I should be able to drill those without issue but wondered if anyone else had this problem (see right hand guide in picture below).

Thanks for any help.


----------



## ruckus

I had that issue on the bottom bracket and just filing is down slightly fixed it, shifts smoothly now.

I don't know about seatpost, looks like it's a proprietary seatpost made for that frame, so no clue.


----------



## Aeroengy

ruckus said:


> I had that issue on the bottom bracket and just filing is down slightly fixed it, shifts smoothly now.
> 
> I don't know about seatpost, looks like it's a proprietary seatpost made for that frame, so no clue.


As far as the guide goes it should be pretty easy to drill or file to get the cable through. Out of curiosity did you run any cable liner through the frame or at least through the BB guide. I have seen some people run bare cables. However, seems to me stripping some housing down to the inner line would reduce friction there and make it shift smoother. 

Regarding the seatpost I would think that it should not move at all ... but it does.


----------



## asianarnold1

Aeroengy said:


> Hello all! I have been lurking here for awhile debating getting an FM098. I finally decided to go for it and it arrived yesterday. I haven't started the build yet as I am waiting on a couple parts. However, I did test fit a few things and found a couple of minor ( I hope) issues that I wonder if anyone else has seen with recent FM098 frames.


i hope mine won't have any issues (biting nails). since my paint scheme was complicated, promised delivery time was 35days by end of april2014. after 3 weeks, i emailed them for status, here's their response ...

"Sorry to delay your order,cause we have sold out the all FM098 last month,and we have let our factory to mass production now.
We have put your order in the primary and that will be finished in the next week,is that ok??
We promise give you the perfect frame,hope you will like that."

so, one more week (biting more nails). 
in the meantime, i'm enjoying my '94 steel Serotta with downtube shifters. i can still ride elbow to elbow next to Venge-guy on the saturday hammerfest rides. hells yeah!!


----------



## disabledcyclist

Hey All

Need some advice on my next frame please, Ive had a FM028 that i believe is like the old madone.

I have a fm098 that I believe is like the venge 

and now im looking for somethings thats a bit like the tarmac sl4 please, not wanting a replica, just something with a fairly close geo.

thanks all


----------



## saad

Pictures of my "R5" from Feel Bike, should be shipping soon:


----------



## BikeInCanada

Pics of my build. Just got it all finished and got my fitting done. 

Rides like a dream. 

Don't know the weight but it ain't much


----------



## ChevyDK

What frame is that and from what suplier?
What did it cost and what did the painting cost?


----------



## BikeInCanada

ChevyDK said:


> What frame is that and from what suplier?
> What did it cost and what did the painting cost?


It's the R-002 from zhongwei. Dealings with them (Chris Mei) were great and had no issues at all. 

I don't remember the breakdown of the cost but the frame, fork, headset and two color paint was $480. If memory serves, the paint was $60 or $80. I think.


----------



## psalm116

kleek said:


> I'm inclined to agree with Garza here. I lurked around this forum and posted on Velobuild occasionally when sourcing my frame. I get where you're coming from as I own a replica venge frame; its an attractive option to own a frame that looks the real deal but costs a fraction of the price be it through aesthetics or "performance". My frame has been great for me personally but I do find myself thinking whether it would have been a better choice going open mould as others have stated before that the replicas could just be built up to look right.
> 
> Anyway to get back on topic, like Garza said, perhaps try a more reputable seller where others have had experience dealing with them. If you are indeed set on that particular frame but from another seller I recommend Zhongwei either direct or through Velobuild. The frame is designated R-041 from them and I reckon it would be cheaper than the USD$800 OEM are asking for (paintwork might cost extra)


Thanks for the feedback guys! Great info. I looked at the R-041 frame from Velobuild - that looks spot on to a Venge. 

Does it matter what finish I get if I decide to custom paint the bike? Should I start from Raw finish?


----------



## nirVELOvana

Hey ruckus? You here? Knowing how much you love such incongruities as spacers and positive stems on race-geometry frames — when I came across something in the same vein, I knew you would love _this little faux pas_:



Those Walmart beach cruiser pedals on an S5 are a thing of beauty. Ain't they? LOL!

Nobody — *but nobody* — waves the "_to each his own_" flag with more fervor than I do. But _that's_ just total blasphemy! LOL!


----------



## nirVELOvana

saad said:


> Pictures of my "R5" from Feel Bike, should be shipping soon:
> 
> View attachment 294680
> 
> 
> View attachment 294681
> 
> 
> View attachment 294682
> 
> 
> View attachment 294683
> 
> 
> View attachment 294684


That's a very tasteful paint job, saad. What color matching system does Feel use? YS-Paint? Pantone?

You didn't show us the best part though. Why don't you give folks a real good shot of that asymmetric bottom bracket shell? The money shot would be of you holding a set of digital calipers showing the 34mm[SUP]+-0.5 [/SUP] drive side and a 45mm[SUP]+-0.5 [/SUP] non-drive side measurements. 

Such faithful reproduction and adherence-to-standard of an idiosyncratic bottom bracket specification would be a good example — to the doubting-Thomas' — of the attention to detail Chinese frame engineers are paying to the reproduction frames they're putting out these days.

What made you opt to go with Feel by the way, saad? I know they do have some really nice frames. Feel were in the top 5 in my short list of suppliers when I was shopping around for my "_RCA_" I now have on order. But I found the same 2014 frame from another supplier for $250 less than Feel's. I guess the difference might be Feel's claimed weight of 780g versus my guy's claimed weight of 850g. The size I ordered was out of stock at the time but is scheduled to be rolling off their next production run any day now.

Also those are some fast-looking wheels. What brand are they — if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## disabledcyclist

disabledcyclist said:


> Hey All
> 
> Need some advice on my next frame please, Ive had a FM028 that i believe is like the old madone.
> 
> I have a fm098 that I believe is like the venge
> 
> and now im looking for somethings thats a bit like the tarmac sl4 please, not wanting a replica, just something with a fairly close geo.
> 
> thanks all


Bit of a bump so it doesnt get too lost, Thanks all


----------



## tthome

*Swapped over from Chinese Carbon to Brand Name Frames - DIY'er POV and Debate.*

I posted this in the Chinese carbon thread however thought it prove beneficial to others outside of it and open up some cause for debate.

Trying to give back to the newly intiated DIY'er or Chinese interested. I cut my teeth here at RBR 5+ years ago and below is what I've learned and done and what I prefer to do now when it comes to looking for new frames.

I've owned 3 different Chinese Carbon Bikes, the FM001, FM015 and some other Flyxii frameset that I've yet to really identify other than it looking like a Colnago. I'll state that I've had good experience with each but I did order them all through well reviewed Chinese vendors like HongFu/Dengfu/Flyxii, again all well reveiwed. My purchase prices ranged from $400 to $550 for these frames. I've since built them up and sold them off to local folks via Craigslist. What I've learned over the past 6 years of building up my own road bikes with these chinese frames is that you can also find deals for "NEW" name brand bikes on ebay and craigslist for just about the same price if you take your time and look around. A few years ago I purchased a brand new 2011 Rocky Mountain 70RSL Road Frameset (search the forum) for $450. It's build quality is honestly second to none. Also just last week I received a brand new 2013 BMC SL01 Frameset (105 Model Paint Scheme) for $650.

The point I'm trying to make is if it's price that is the key factor there are many good name brand framesets you could purchase for around the same price as these chinese carbon frames, you just need to look around. I don't own any Chinese carbon bicycles anymore, not because they're junk but because of what I stated above. The cost of the frames was my driving decision maker. I've riden both expensive bikes and chinese carbon and all of them have their own riding characteristics. I've had great experiences with both. I've simply chosen to stick with the name branded bikes over the chinese carbon because the cost isn't that far off for branded, the QC is arguably better and if I need a part I usually have a phone number I can call to get some help.

For reference and no reason whatsoever that I can justify to my wife; I now own 6 branded road bikes. 4 of them built up myself with frame & parts cherry picked off craigslist or ebay. 1 bicycle I bought new out of the box (but nowhere near retail) was my 2012 BMC SL01 and yes I own 2 BMC SL01's. My other store bought bike is 2013 Cervelo S5 Di2 Ultegra. The other 4 that I've built by purchasing framesets are 2011 Cannondale SuperSix, 2011 Rocky Mountain 70RSL, 2012 Raleigh Prestige and the 2013 BMC SL01.

Best advice I can give you guys for buying chinese carbon is; Stick with the chinese frames that have good reviews here on RBR. Pay attention to the people who comment on their quality and how active they are on RBR. If they have 1000+ posts then there is a good chance they know more than you and what they're talking about. Let someone else be the "beta tester" on a frame you've never seen. Let someone else take the risk of the purchase and being the early adopter. I made all my chinese carbon decisions based on paying close attention to the profile information of the people that made the comments. Bottom line, you can find a great chinese carbon frameset for much less than retail sure but you can also find a great brand name frameset for at or near the same price of chinese carbon without too much extra risk. My thinking today is "why take it"? My biggest concern purchasing from China has always been if I had a problem with a frame or part how would I go about getting some help. How would I get parts if I need them and lastly how do I know for sure that I'm as safe as I could be?Fortunately I never needed it, but with the frames I now ride I don't have to worry so much.

In closing, I'm not saying don't purchase Chinese carbon. I'm simply saying that if cost is your driving factor there are other great options. I've gone full circle and have to say that my experience has been good all around. I've read horror stories on here from both Chinese buyers and brand name buyers. I'm simply telling you my POV and why I've made the change over time. I hope this helps and at least provides a benefit to someone. I've learned so much from they folks here and I appreciate the vast wealth of knowledge and also it's sometimes vast wealth of misinfomration as well.


----------



## Blue Bird

Does anyone know of a Chinese carbon cross frame that has/is:

Disc brake
Internal routing
fender and rack eyelets/mounts
Good mud clearance

I can find some of those things, but not all, especially in the fender/rack mount part.


----------



## nirVELOvana

IBTM - *BOO-YAH!*

I'll bite.

The lower cost of the Chinese-direct option is a big draw. No question. But the primary draw — *for me* — is the Chinese-direct option gives *me* the ultimate bang for my buck from an exclusivity angle. From that point of view, the lower cost draw is only the cherry on top.

By "_exclusivity_", I mean you can figuratively and literally start from a blank canvas, and create the ultimate personalized bike — _paint scheme-wise and component choice-wise at least_ — that nobody else in the world owns. That appeals to the creative side of my brain. 

Secondarily, there's an appeal that I can't put into words that is about the reverse-engineering approach — which most Chinese frame engineers seem to take — to bring such faithful reproductions into existence. That appeals to the engineering side of my brain. 

Tertiarily, there's something else that adds to the _exclusivity_ of the China-direct option — *for me*: _I live in hope that China-direct frames will never become mainstream_. Owning a one-of-a-kind custom-painted China-direct bike is akin to discovering a nascent indy band that nobody else ever heard of. And in spite of their musical brilliance, you pray that they never have a top 40 hit. That way, they will never "_sell-out_" and will always be exclusively "_*my* band_". 

I look at it like this: _I *could* buy the *ONE* $6000 off-the-shelf cookie-cutter bike that millions of other people own. I *can* afford it. Or I could take that same $6000 and be the proud owner of 4 decent (*for me*) bikes — each with different riding qualities - and each with exquisite one-of-a-kind paint schemes designed to my own tastes._ That's why I'll always choose China-direct over off-the-shelf.

Lastly, I personally place a lot of value on the notion that Chinese-direct frames are kind of the underdog. It's in my nature to side with the underdog. Always have — always will. But, of course, that's just the kind of guy I am.


----------



## ruckus

nirVELOvana said:


> Hey ruckus? You here? Knowing how much you love such incongruities as spacers and positive stems on race-geometry frames — when I came across something in the same vein, I knew you would love _this little faux pas_:
> 
> 
> 
> Those Walmart beach cruiser pedals on an S5 are a thing of beauty. Ain't they? LOL!
> 
> Nobody — *but nobody* — waves the "_to each his own_" flag with more fervor than I do. But _that's_ just total blasphemy! LOL!


Ewww. On an aero/TT bike? EWWW. Record gruppo on an aero bike and has the flexibility of a plank of wood? EWW EWWW, so sad, so pathetic. If I feel bad for the bike, it deserves a better rider. And yes thank you for this, I love seeing bikes like this. Always a laugh seeing an aero bike ridden like a touring bike.

And I use pedals like that on mine  I've yet to graduate to SPDs or SpeedPadals.



Blue Bird said:


> I can find some of those things, but not all, especially in the fender/rack mount part.




That's because I've never seen a cyclo-cross/race bike with a rack mount... You do know cyclo-cross are racing bikes, right? For fenders, I just use those raceblade things, worked well during the winter.


----------



## ruckus

I like building my bikes, so I will likely continue to buy Chinese carbons. I haven't found a branded frameset for $460 shipped yet brand new. I'm never buying used carbon. I would love to see where I can buy a branded carbon frameset with tapered seattube/headtube, and everything else that I love about the FR-322. I frankly like the appearance and geometry of the FR-322 over any bike from Giant, BMC, Trek or Specialized right now. The only bike I would like more is a Cannondale Synapse/SuperSix, or a Scott Foil, but again, frameset for those... hahahaha... yeah...

I'm not going to give an LBS or some assembly line worker the pleasure of building my bike. I reserve that right for me only. And considering how fast bike parts wear, I'm not going to buy used parts off CL either. 

And I don't think you can buy a branded carbon for $1400 with Ultrega. Even Synapse and CR1 for example are well over $2K with Ultrega. Cause as I said before, I'm never buying used carbon. Total cost for my current 105 build with Pro 7S parts, Prologo Zero PAS Ti saddle for $1100. *Would love to see what LBS will sell me a bike with the aftermarket stem, handlebar, saddle of my choosing for $1100. *Cause remember, I'm NEVER buying used carbon, and prefer new parts considering how quickly bike parts wear out.


----------



## Blue Bird

ruckus said:


> Ewww. On an aero/TT bike? EWWW. Record gruppo on an aero bike and has the flexibility of a plank of wood? EWW EWWW, so sad, so pathetic. If I feel bad for the bike, I have sympathy that this bike will be carrying someone who is incapable of riding it. That poor poor bike, it deserves to be ridden better than that.
> 
> And I use pedals like that on mine  I've yet to graduate to SPDs or SpeedPadals.
> 
> 
> 
> That's because I've never seen a cyclo-cross/race bike with a rack mount... You do know cyclo-cross are racing bikes, right? For fenders, I just use those raceback things, worked well during the winter.


I am currently riding a cross bike with rack/fender mounts (motobecane fantom cross outlaw) and race/win with it routinely, so yes, I am aware cross bikes are made for racing. During the cyclocross off-season, it is my commuter and utility bike. I am not building up a 6th bike just because I cannot get a carbon frame with fender eyelets and a rack mount. 

I did find an e-bay carbon cross frame with fender eyelets, but not rack mounts. If I cannot get rack mounts, I will just get the fender eyelet one and zip-tie the rack mounts to the seat stays if need be.


----------



## BikeInCanada

Blue Bird said:


> If I cannot get rack mounts, I will just get the fender eyelet one and zip-tie the rack mounts to the seat stays if need be.


Zip ties are so 80's. Use duct tape


----------



## ruckus

Blue Bird said:


> I am currently riding a cross bike with rack/fender mounts (motobecane fantom cross outlaw).


Different Fantom models out there. Anyway, BikesDirect are also more touring friendly than most. 

I don't think you will find a Chinese carbon or big brand carbon cyclo-cross with those features. Since you already have that Motobecane why don't you just use that when you NEED a rack and when you don't, you can just the carbon with SkS Raceblade Fenders.

Oh... Also I like that Motobecane Fantom Cross Outlaw. Very versatile.


----------



## Aeroengy

asianarnold1 said:


> i hope mine won't have any issues (biting nails). since my paint scheme was complicated, promised delivery time was 35days by end of april2014. after 3 weeks, i emailed them for status, here's their response ...
> 
> "Sorry to delay your order,cause we have sold out the all FM098 last month,and we have let our factory to mass production now.
> We have put your order in the primary and that will be finished in the next week,is that ok??
> We promise give you the perfect frame,hope you will like that."
> 
> so, one more week (biting more nails).
> in the meantime, i'm enjoying my '94 steel Serotta with downtube shifters. i can still ride elbow to elbow next to Venge-guy on the saturday hammerfest rides. hells yeah!!


I got a similiar message about being out of stock from early March to mid April. I ordered frame (w/fork & seatpost), headset, handlebars, & stem. Mine took about 6 weeks from the order until shipment. Then about 4 days from shipment until it arrived in Maryland. I didn't get a complicated paint job just a clear matt finish. However, the finish and everything looks really good. 

The thing that concerns me is the slightly rocking seatpost. However, I will know more once I get the bike together enough to actaully sit on it and see how it behaves. I don't think it is the seatpost as it seems perfectly straight. So it probably is a slight widening of the seattube below where it clamps. The only thing I can think to do is to shim the inside of the seat tube. I really don't want to send the frame back since it is such a small movement ...


----------



## ruckus

Aeroengy said:


> The thing that concerns me is the slightly rocking seatpost. However, I will know more once I get the bike together enough to actaully sit on it and see how it behaves. I don't think it is the seatpost as it seems perfectly straight. So it probably is a slight widening of the seattube below where it clamps. The only thing I can think to do is to shim the inside of the seat tube. I really don't want to send the frame back since it is such a small movement ...


Have you considered sending it back? Having it replaced? It seems like a manufacture defect to me. I would hope a replacement FM098 won't have seattube rocking like that. It would scare me if the shim fell apart and somehow damaged the integrity of the seatpost causing it to snap, break or whatever, may do bodily harm to you. It just doesn't seem safe to me is all based on your descriptions.
- And having it repaired to rid the bike of the rocking may cost as much as the frame itself.


----------



## ruckus

Aeroengy said:


> As far as the guide goes it should be pretty easy to drill or file to get the cable through. Out of curiosity did you run any cable liner through the frame or at least through the BB guide. I have seen some people run bare cables. However, seems to me stripping some housing down to the inner line would reduce friction there and make it shift smoother.


I know bugly64 runs bare wire and he says it shifts smoothly.

I do use liner from the cable housing just for the bottom bracket part. I didn't use the plastic liner that the bike came with, I just stripped the cable housing from left-over pieces of jagwire. It's working fine. And since it's internal cabling, no worries about dirt getting into the liner and causing more friction. It's been fine for now. 

That said, I see no harm is running it bare wire. I talked to a shop mechanic that I have good relations with and he said it should be fine as well. They build a lot of top level KHS, Specialized, Giant bikes without liner, and he said customers have not issues with it and plastic thing doesn't need to be replaced. But I will continue to use the liner just because...


----------



## Aeroengy

ruckus said:


> Have you considered sending it back? Having it replaced? It seems like a manufacture defect to me. I would hope a replacement FM098 won't have seattube rocking like that. It would scare me if the shim fell apart and somehow damaged the integrity of the seatpost causing it to snap, break or whatever, may do bodily harm to you. It just doesn't seem safe to me is all based on your descriptions.
> - And having it repaired to rid the bike of the rocking may cost as much as the frame itself.



I am considering it. It is just that it is so slight that I don't know if I am just being overly sensitive. I just messed with it some more and basically it seems like the seat post is just a little smaller than the seat tube.

Basically if I don't tighten the clamp at all the post is loose enough to just freely fall into the seat tube. So when I tighten the clamp it only grips at the top allowing a very very slight rock front back inside the tube. The tolerance is such that if I just put a couple of coats of paint/clear coat on the lower 1/2 of the post the problem might just go away. Every other bike I have owned had a tighter seat tube/post interface so it is a bit surprising.


----------



## MMsRepBike

Aeroengy said:


> I am considering it. It is just that it is so slight that I don't know if I am just being overly sensitive. I just messed with it some more and basically it seems like the seat post is just a little smaller than the seat tube.
> 
> Basically if I don't tighten the clamp at all the post is loose enough to just freely fall into the seat tube. So when I tighten the clamp it only grips at the top allowing a very very slight rock front back inside the tube. The tolerance is such that if I just put a couple of coats of paint/clear coat on the lower 1/2 of the post the problem might just go away. Every other bike I have owned had a tighter seat tube/post interface so it is a bit surprising.


My Chinese bike is the same way, most are like that.

Use a lot of carbon paste when doing the install and torque the clamp correctly.

So basically yes, the clamp is the only real thing holding the post there.
I've had my seatpost replaced and the new one is the same thing, small for the frame.
No big deal, don't worry too much about it.


----------



## BikeInCanada

MMsRepBike said:


> No big deal, don't worry too much about it.


Until it gives ya and drops so your knees are by your ears


----------



## Aeroengy

MMsRepBike said:


> My Chinese bike is the same way, most are like that.
> 
> Use a lot of carbon paste when doing the install and torque the clamp correctly.
> 
> So basically yes, the clamp is the only real thing holding the post there.
> I've had my seatpost replaced and the new one is the same thing, small for the frame.
> No big deal, don't worry too much about it.


Thanks for the info! I was hoping it was relatively common and other's bikes were similar


----------



## MMsRepBike

if it's like mine and is a two bolt clamp, like a stem, remember the rule:

Tighten evenly, switching frequently between the two bolts. Once torque is achieved on the first bolt and then second bolt, you MUST go back and retorque. You will find the first bolt is out of torque due to the second one tightening. So go back and forth until you achieve proper torque on both bolts with absolute certainty. Make sure to get the proper torque spec from the seller. Mine is 5nm.


----------



## svard75

BikeInCanada said:


> Until it gives ya and drops so your knees are by your ears


Too bad these frames use proprietary shapes for their seatposts. I have been on a few CF seatposts in one instance it was a cheap post from greatkeen which I felt a little uncomfortable using due to the amount of flex I felt. I've also used genuine easton ec90 seatposts on my XC bike and its been excellent, firm with no flex and just a bit of paste at the clamp area. I actually converted my FM15 isp to non isp and performed some surgey to fill the gap so a 31.6 seatpost would fit relatively snug. I believe the explanation is some pages back and involves using your seatpost hacking it up and some resin. Still a very minor bit of movement for me but remember my insiders were all deformed from the isp. For you guys issue it shouldn't be a big deal at all to make it nice and snug. If mine eventually fails I will definitely go with a standard shaped/sized frame.


----------



## BikeInCanada

svard75 said:


> Too bad these frames use proprietary shapes for their seatposts. I have been on a few CF seatposts in one instance it was a cheap post from greatkeen which I felt a little uncomfortable using due to the amount of flex I felt. I've also used genuine easton ec90 seatposts on my XC bike and its been excellent, firm with no flex and just a bit of paste at the clamp area. I actually converted my FM15 isp to non isp and performed some surgey to fill the gap so a 31.6 seatpost would fit relatively snug. I believe the explanation is some pages back and involves using your seatpost hacking it up and some resin. Still a very minor bit of movement for me but remember my insiders were all deformed from the isp. For you guys issue it shouldn't be a big deal at all to make it nice and snug. If mine eventually fails I will definitely go with a standard shaped/sized frame.


All very true. 

There is no flex or movement on mine. I put the post in, did my fitting, marked it, paste, set it ... And it isn't moving at all (I checked last night after reading these posts ... Oops). 

I hope this is the case with yours (after the paste). 


Ps. I was just making a wee funny now the post falling. Really don't want that to happen.


----------



## MMsRepBike

A note on carbon paste: some are thicker than others, and in our case it's best to use the thicker stuff. For instance on my Pinarello a 31.6 seatpost is very snug as is and I probably don't need carbon paste on the Enve seatpost but I always use it on all carbon joints on the bike. Because it's so tight of a fit I use the Park Tool SAC-2. 

The Park Tool SAC-2 is the thinnest carbon assembly paste I've found. It's a thin blue gel with some grit in there with it. I have to shake the tube every time before use because there's some sort of alcohol or some liquid in there, very thin stuff overall.

My Chinese FR-315 has a very loose seatpost, the replacement seatpost is also very loose and therefore when I used the Park Tool SAC-2 it didn't even contact anything. It was a worthless endeavor. So I switched to the thickest carbon assembly paste I've come across to date and that is made by Shimano, well their component division PRO.

PRO Fit-It paste is pink and it's super thick, a very thick paste. Nothing to shake here. Lots of aggregate in the paste, the kind of stuff needed for this application. I put a lot on the post and some inside as well too, hopefully it's enough to keep problems away. If you can't get a hold of this stuff than go with the FSA stuff or anything thick.


----------



## tthome

nirVELOvana said:


> _I *could* buy the *ONE* $6000 off-the-shelf cookie-cutter bike that millions of other people own. I *can* afford it. Or I could take that same $6000 and be the proud owner of 4 decent (*for me*) bikes _


I totally agree with you and this was my logic as well when I first started up my 3 Chinese Carbon Builds. I had friends who had dropped thousands on a new bike and I told them why do that when you could buy 3-4 Chinese Carbons? I also thought that if (and when) the time for an accident happened I'd be a lot less upset about a destroyed $500 frame versus a $3000+ frame. I still feel that way today, my feelings haven't changed but as I said I have found a bit more peice of mind in purchasing name brand *NEW* carbon frames for at or a tick higher than chinese carbon. I too do not like to buy used carbon unless I know the person I'm buying from. 

I will say this; I paid $3100 for my brand new off the showroom floor Cervelo S5 with Di2 (retail $5500) and I don't typically like to ride it in a group ride but when I do I make sure I'm at the front and away from increased potential "pack" danger and squirellyness. I have what I feel is one of the most high priced retail bikes in my Cervelo. I've owned many low cost chinese frames with Dura Ace installed and have to say that there isn't much of an OMG!!! difference to justify the $4000+ cash differential. 

Anyhow, I'll keep restating, that *for me* I've chosen to buy brand name for the same or a few dollars more than the Chinese Carbon. I like the idea of corporate support and the piece of mind it brings and also ease of part supply if needed. Cost is still a driver *for me* but so is product support. If the cost was not even close I'd be the owner of 6 Chinese Carbon bikes, not 6 name branded ones. I've enjoyed my new hobby and wish I had discoverd it when I was younger. I'm 42 now and my mind thinks I'm 20 but my body reminds my mind all the time that it's not. But that's for another thread.


----------



## Aeroengy

MMsRepBike said:


> if it's like mine and is a two bolt clamp, like a stem, remember the rule:
> 
> Tighten evenly, switching frequently between the two bolts. Once torque is achieved on the first bolt and then second bolt, you MUST go back and retorque. You will find the first bolt is out of torque due to the second one tightening. So go back and forth until you achieve proper torque on both bolts with absolute certainty. Make sure to get the proper torque spec from the seller. Mine is 5nm.


The post clamp on mine only uses a single bolt to on the rear side of the seat post. It just compress the clamp to squeeze the the posts from the sides.

I will probably go with the thicker carbon paste you recommend. If it is still loose after that I may spray a couple of layers of clear coat to build it up the 1mm or so that is needed.


----------



## tt-01 mamba

A question on custom paint schemes from Dengfu, 
I have sent them a few poorly done paint images with a fairly complex paint scheme. (3 colours+carbon black) They said they would get their designer to come up with something.

What usually happens now? Do they come back at me with properly rendered images or images that aren't so sloppy so I can adjust them a bit further? 
All the best.

EDIT: I'm ordering one of the new FM-206's. I've not seen any posted reviews, has anybody heard anything about them on the grapevine?


----------



## Maglore

They will send you a picture mock up of the design, labelled with the relevent paint codes. You then approve it, or make further changes and send it back. Designs can be sent back and forth until you're happy. How good is that?


----------



## svard75

MMsRepBike said:


> A note on carbon paste: some are thicker than others, and in our case it's best to use the thicker stuff. For instance on my Pinarello a 31.6 seatpost is very snug as is and I probably don't need carbon paste on the Enve seatpost but I always use it on all carbon joints on the bike. Because it's so tight of a fit I use the Park Tool SAC-2.
> 
> The Park Tool SAC-2 is the thinnest carbon assembly paste I've found. It's a thin blue gel with some grit in there with it. I have to shake the tube every time before use because there's some sort of alcohol or some liquid in there, very thin stuff overall.
> 
> My Chinese FR-315 has a very loose seatpost, the replacement seatpost is also very loose and therefore when I used the Park Tool SAC-2 it didn't even contact anything. It was a worthless endeavor. So I switched to the thickest carbon assembly paste I've come across to date and that is made by Shimano, well their component division PRO.
> 
> PRO Fit-It paste is pink and it's super thick, a very thick paste. Nothing to shake here. Lots of aggregate in the paste, the kind of stuff needed for this application. I put a lot on the post and some inside as well too, hopefully it's enough to keep problems away. If you can't get a hold of this stuff than go with the FSA stuff or anything thick.


Good to know. I use the red FSA paste. I can also add some powdered graphite to the paste to make it thicker.


----------



## palmettoguy

*Aero007*

A few weeks ago I decided I wanted to build a bike using a chinese carbon frameset. Everything required for the build has shown up with the exception of the frame.

The procurement of the frame has been the biggest pain so far. I purchased a RB003 frame on Ebay and after I paid for it the seller said he sold the last one in my size with the BB I wanted. So, he asked if he could install a BB adapter. I told him that was fine. The next day, he emailed me to say he no longer had my size. He offered me a smaller size or a different frame in my size and I told him I just wanted a refund. He then offered up a painted RB003 that was my size w/ the BB I wanted but he would need time to repaint it. I didn't want a painted frame and I certainly didn't want a re-painted frame so again, I asked for a refund. We ended up in working out a deal to where we would just trade the frame for a set of 700x21 50mm CF clinchers.

Since the first frame didn't work out, I ordered a Aero007 frame from a vendor on Aliexpress. I was given a tracking # for the frame 3 days ago, but there is no record of it when I track it...I've contacted the vendor and was told they would look into it...haven't heard anything back. I assume it's just because its the weekend.

Anyways, here are the wheelsets I picked up.
1st set is the Chinese CF 50mm, Vittoria Zaffiro 700x23 tires
2nd set is H+ Son tb14 w/ 105 hubs, Fyxation Session 700x23 tires


----------



## tt-01 mamba

Maglore said:


> They will send you a picture mock up of the design, labelled with the relevent paint codes. You then approve it, or make further changes and send it back. Designs can be sent back and forth until you're happy. How good is that?


Beautiful! Will be sure to post some images when I get them. 

Secondary question, I am dealing via Skype, do they send the picture files through even if you are not logged on for you to receive when you log back on?


----------



## saad

nirVELOvana said:


> That's a very tasteful paint job, saad. What color matching system does Feel use? YS-Paint? Pantone?
> 
> You didn't show us the best part though. Why don't you give folks a real good shot of that asymmetric bottom bracket shell? The money shot would be of you holding a set of digital calipers showing the 34mm[SUP]+-0.5 [/SUP] drive side and a 45mm[SUP]+-0.5 [/SUP] non-drive side measurements.
> 
> Such faithful reproduction and adherence-to-standard of an idiosyncratic bottom bracket specification would be a good example — to the doubting-Thomas' — of the attention to detail Chinese frame engineers are paying to the reproduction frames they're putting out these days.
> 
> What made you opt to go with Feel by the way, saad? I know they do have some really nice frames. Feel were in the top 5 in my short list of suppliers when I was shopping around for my "_RCA_" I now have on order. But I found the same 2014 frame from another supplier for $250 less than Feel's. I guess the difference might be Feel's claimed weight of 780g versus my guy's claimed weight of 850g. The size I ordered was out of stock at the time but is scheduled to be rolling off their next production run any day now.
> 
> Also those are some fast-looking wheels. What brand are they — if you don't mind me asking?


Hey Mate

These pics aren't by me, they are by feel, to confirm all is good before they ship. They use YS Paint. I'll probably end up getting 60mm carbon tubulars from Yoeleo. They have an incredible rim design with no holes, and have 25mm U Shaped options.

They showed me pictures of the BBRIGHT to Shimano or SRAM bottom bracket they make, so it is quite clearly asymmetrical as per BBRIGHT , and they are sending me the Bottom Bracket also. Ill be running Force 22 and a SRAM PF30 BB though.

Originally I was speaking to Zhongwei, but firstly they didn't have any stock of 56. I then contacted Feel, and I found them to be a lot nicer to deal with, reply sooner, and yes, Zhongwei were cheaper, but if I remember correctly, the Feel is T800 and the others are T700 and T800, so Im guessing thats the difference? Feel also include a bottom bracket, and it was extra through Zhongwei.

Funnily enough, Damon at Zhongwei said he can get me another R5/RCA from "another factory". Originally, it was about $550 through them, for their own version, but the version from the other factory, which has 56 available, was $750 - I can only assume the "other factory" was Feel. However, Damon told me the version from the "other factory" was identical to the R5:

"Damon: We can also get with painting for you,all sizes are available
Damon: It's US$750/set

Damon: US$750/set is the one which we get from others,including Cervelo"

He said the Zhongwei version was " Not much difference
Only they have all the sizes and slightly difference,cause they are more looking like original,acutally it's a original copy
We changed a little bit,95% to original,so it won't be against copyright"

He showed me pictures, and indeed it was difference to an R5

I may still buy one through Zhongwei for my wife, to check it out. You'll note that Velobuild now have the R5 copy too, which I assume what Damon was speaking about.

Out of interest, who did you order your R5 through?


----------



## disabledcyclist

Hey All

Need some advice on my next frame please, Ive had a FM028 that i believe is like the old madone.

I have a fm098 that I believe is like the venge 

and now im looking for somethings thats a bit like the tarmac sl4 please, not wanting a replica, just something with a fairly close geo.


Also whats peoples thoughts on the new FM206?

thanks all


----------



## tt-01 mamba

Will be placing an order for the FM206 soon when the 48's come available. 

Cost quoted is $580USD, Headset $14. 

When choosing a size, take note that the head tube length does not include the topper thing that goes on the fork "bayonet" That topper adds another 2cm to the head tube length apparently. That's all the info I have for now. 

They also require direct mount brakes so careful when choosing a group set (Ultegra 6800 and the soon to be 105 5800 have these brakes)

EDIT: Weight for fork, frame, seaport is "approximately 1800g" I have no idea what size that is for or how accurate it is.


----------



## nirVELOvana

tt-01 mamba said:


> Will be placing an order for the FM206 soon when the 48's come available.
> 
> Cost quoted is $580USD, Headset $14.
> 
> When choosing a size, take note that the head tube length does not include the topper thing that goes on the fork "bayonet" That topper adds another 2cm to the head tube length apparently. That's all the info I have for now.
> 
> They also require direct mount brakes so careful when choosing a group set (Ultegra 6800 and the soon to be 105 5800 have these brakes)
> 
> EDIT: Weight for fork, frame, seaport is "approximately 1800g" I have no idea what size that is for or how accurate it is.


Man! Have I got _*THEE*_ perfect pedals for your aero frame?



:wink:

(That's kinda _an inside joke_, incidently. Seeing that we're both fans of aero frames, I'm counting on you also having a sense of humor :wink


----------



## nirVELOvana

saad said:


> Hey Mate
> 
> These pics aren't by me, they are by feel, to confirm all is good before they ship. They use YS Paint. I'll probably end up getting 60mm carbon tubulars from Yoeleo. They have an incredible rim design with no holes, and have 25mm U Shaped options.
> 
> They showed me pictures of the BBRIGHT to Shimano or SRAM bottom bracket they make, so it is quite clearly asymmetrical as per BBRIGHT , and they are sending me the Bottom Bracket also. Ill be running Force 22 and a SRAM PF30 BB though.
> 
> Originally I was speaking to Zhongwei, but firstly they didn't have any stock of 56. I then contacted Feel, and I found them to be a lot nicer to deal with, reply sooner, and yes, Zhongwei were cheaper, but if I remember correctly, the Feel is T800 and the others are T700 and T800, so Im guessing thats the difference? Feel also include a bottom bracket, and it was extra through Zhongwei.
> 
> Funnily enough, Damon at Zhongwei said he can get me another R5/RCA from "another factory". Originally, it was about $550 through them, for their own version, but the version from the other factory, which has 56 available, was $750 - I can only assume the "other factory" was Feel. However, Damon told me the version from the "other factory" was identical to the R5:
> 
> "Damon: We can also get with painting for you,all sizes are available
> Damon: It's US$750/set
> 
> Damon: US$750/set is the one which we get from others,including Cervelo"
> 
> He said the Zhongwei version was " Not much difference
> Only they have all the sizes and slightly difference,cause they are more looking like original,acutally it's a original copy
> We changed a little bit,95% to original,so it won't be against copyright"
> 
> He showed me pictures, and indeed it was difference to an R5
> 
> I may still buy one through Zhongwei for my wife, to check it out. You'll note that Velobuild now have the R5 copy too, which I assume what Damon was speaking about.
> 
> Out of interest, who did you order your R5 through?


Thanks, saad. OK. I give. 

Mine's from Zhongwei. If I seemed circumscribed about revealing that before, it's because I was restraining myself from gushing about my excellent experience with them. I've seen people in this forum get violently attacked — _apparently even banned_ — for simply giving something a positive review. It seems like one person's thumbs-up is another person's shilling.

I scrutinized the two different frames pretty good before I chose. The only *obvious* difference — that *I* could see — between Zhongwei's and Feel's, is the positions of the internal cable insert holes. It just so happened that the decal I'd already designed to be on the top tube turned out to work best with where the cable holes are positioned on Zhongwei's 2014. So, that functionally-insignificant 5% difference from the original serendipitously worked out in my favor. Which is awesome! 

I also went with Zhongwei because my custom painting calls for some very specific Pantone colors (_the same colors as my LLC's logo, as it happens_). Zhongwei is one of only a small number of Chinese frame guys that work with Pantone. The others probably don't — _I'm guessing_ — because the Pantone swatch books and matching software cost the earth. 

Another one of my Chinese frames I had painted at a different Chinese shop that used YS Paint. If I'd wanted a standard primary color, then YS Paint would be fine. But in my experience, getting a precise match of a more specific non-standard color is disappointingly hit-or-miss with YS Paint.

Yet another one of my Chinese frames I built up last year also has a BBRight shell. _This is the SRAM PF-30 bottom bracket_ I installed on that one (_Truvativ *are* SRAM, as you'll probably know_):



And _this is the PF-30 BB_ I'm gonna be installing on my "_R5_":



You'll notice that it has the exact same model # (_200-3112_) and the exact same MFR's part # (_BB-PF6000/CZ/Di2_) as the one that FSA explicitly bills as "_BBRight_":



I caught _that FSA 200-3112_ in a closeout sale online at 42.5% less than what they ordinarily go for. Awesome! So I snapped up the last two they had. I'll use one for my upcoming "_R5_" BBRight build — and the second one for my 2015 "_S2_" BBRight build. It pays to plan ahead :wink:


----------



## nirVELOvana

nirVELOvana said:


> ...my 2015 "_*S2*_" BBRight build. It pays to plan ahead :wink:


"_*S3*_", I mean :wink:


----------



## saad

nirVELOvana said:


> "_*S3*_", I mean :wink:


Ooh really who makes the S3?

Thats good info about Pantone. That didn't matter for me, I wanted a pearl white, and a purple similar to a Nissan R33 GTR/BMW E46 M3. They sent me some sample pics of the colours, and I said "yep" .

Zhongwei didn't have any stock, and couldn't give me a precise date - I spoke to them just recently, and they said they still dont have 56, well over a month later. Basically I got impatient haha. Like I said, I have no reservations in ordering my next bike through them, and may well do, for the wife, and save the money. They do have 51 and 54 available, so just need to work out her size!

With regards to the BBRight, Cervelo specify a specific part number, but according to the Cervelo forums, many frames have been shipping with the standard SRAM PF30, due to a shortage - the only difference being a slight difference in length in the cups, so they dont fully seal - apparently this isn't really a problem at all, according to one of the Cervelo forum Gurus. He also informed me Force 22 is BBRight native, so I just had to have it, otherwise Ultegra it was.

FSA are discontinuing all their BBRIGHT stuff, so there are some great deals to be had on cranks etc.

Is it Zhongwei who make the "S3" frame? And what was your other BBRight frame? Have a build thread?

Cheers


----------



## redstarcap

It's been a while since I posted my Secondwife Z-R-002 
Just upgrade it to ultegra 6870 Di2
Rides fantastic, 6870 felt much stiffer than 105 5700


----------



## ruckus

It's very pretty. Like the wheels decals are not glaring and the FONT for the downtube is great. That's worthy of hanging on a wall as artwork.


----------



## nirVELOvana

saad said:


> Ooh really who makes the S3?
> ...
> Zhongwei didn't have any stock, and couldn't give me a precise date - I spoke to them just recently, and they said they still dont have 56, well over a month later. Basically I got impatient haha...



One good thing about having a fleet of 4 bikes is I never feel in any rush to build the next one :wink: The two I built last year are practically still brand new. So I could afford to wait patiently for Zhongwei's late April-scheduled restock of my 2014 54cm. They'll start painting it this week hopefully.

No build threads on any of them though. I've opted to take an anonymous "_For My Eyes Only_" approach to my custom painting/decal designs. Why? Because another thing I've noticed from years of lurking on RBR and other forums is even though people condemn the Chinese reproductions for infringing name brand's IP rights, those same individual frame buyers have no qualms about plagiarizing the IP of another individual frame buyer's custom paint designs and decals. How hypocritical is that? I'm not saying my custom designs are as coveted as are, say, Pinarello's or whoever's. In all likelihood my particular design tastes probably wouldn't even be *appreciated* by anybody other than myself. But I nevertheless prefer to _hide my light under a bushel_ because I'm just *private* that way. Think, "_exclusivity_" :wink:

I wouldn't be surprised if Zhongwei does "_S3s_". I can't recall where specifically I've seen them though. But they're not hard to find. Just type something like "_aliexpress.com OR alibaba.com OR dhgate.com S3" — or other more appropriate keywords of your choosing —_ into google. And you should hit paydoyt. 



saad said:


> ...With regards to the BBRight, Cervelo specify a specific part number, but according to the Cervelo forums, many frames have been shipping with the standard SRAM PF30, due to a shortage - the only difference being a slight difference in length in the cups...FSA are discontinuing all their BBRIGHT stuff, so there are some great deals to be had on cranks etc...



You mean this?



In fact, those two closeout "_BB-PF6000s (a.k.a. 200-3112)_" I got at 42.5% discount are indeed the discontinued ones with the gray-colored collars. The main difference — _I'm guessing_ — with the newer ones with the black collars that superceeds them is they are probably natively Di2 compatible. 

Regarding last year's SRAM BB (_MFR part #00.6415.041.000 in the above compatibility chart_): one year and several thousand miles on (including some riding during the winter) and that slight difference in length of _my SRAM PF-30's cups_ hasn't presented any problems at all — *for me personally anywyay*. If I recall correctly, the issue is there is a _*risk*_ of water making its way in with SRAM's standard (_non-BBRight-specific_) PF-30 on a BBRight shell. But again, mine still rides as smoothly and quietly as ever. _Luxurious_ is a word that always automatically springs to mind everytime I ride the bike with that SRAM BB. It's installed on _a reproduction "S5_" — not that specific one though, I hasten to add :wink:


----------



## saad

Love it. My force 22 just arrived, and its freaky light! My old bike is a Cervelo Soloist team (alloy), so all the new bits will be a huge difference!

I'm partial to polished alloy, and Im currently building up an old chro-mo bike I got for nothing - love quill stems and bits of silver.

What do you think of running the Ritchey Classic parts on my new bike? Namely the bars and stem, although could also run the seatpost, but seems a step back not running the carbon one supplied with the frame:










Otherwise, will be running 3T stuff, which I love, but I just love the look of the shiny Ritchey parts! Not sure if it will suit a modern bike though - on a bike with a metal crank, silver deraileur etc, most certainly.


----------



## ruckus

I also love silver on bikes. I prefer it over black. Will probably always buy Shimano silver parts over black. That Ritchey stem is sexy!


----------



## Tswifty

nirVELOvana said:


> "_*S3*_", I mean :wink:


Wow i wonder if its the new S3 model or the older one that looked a bit like an S2 rather then S3?

Cause if theres a 2014/15 S3 model clone floating around im sold.


----------



## jimlmackjr

i cant seem to upload the link 
what brand and model is this frame and what is the model it suppose to resesent 
thanks if someone can add the pic for me thanks 

https://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h104/jimlmackjr/Mobile Uploads/IMG_9209_zpsqtgaxjml.jpg


----------



## kleek

jimlmackjr said:


> i cant seem to upload the link
> what brand and model is this frame and what is the model it suppose to resesent
> thanks if someone can add the pic for me thanks
> 
> https://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h104/jimlmackjr/Mobile Uploads/IMG_9209_zpsqtgaxjml.jpg


Might not be much help but it looks to me like an open mould TT frame rather than a replica (just from my quick search through the interwebs)

I couldn't find anything too similar to this frame aside from the fork from the major chinese manufacturers. I was able to find this however from a 2009 French pdf catalogue from something called "TVR Concept":

https://storage.canalblog.com/17/44/651072/43753033.pdf

It's on page 5 of that document. Take away what you will.


----------



## svard75

jimlmackjr said:


> i cant seem to upload the link
> what brand and model is this frame and what is the model it suppose to resesent
> thanks if someone can add the pic for me thanks
> 
> https://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h104/jimlmackjr/Mobile Uploads/IMG_9209_zpsqtgaxjml.jpg


Looks like an older model TT open mold frame as was suggested or an aero road frame. TT rear brake mounts near the BB. Either way looks heavy to be a road but not properly configured to be a good TT so likely a first version open mold.


----------



## jimlmackjr

I was looking at building a TRI bike with it. Just trying to find out what the price might run. The one I found on Craigslist he wants 350$ sound like a good deal


----------



## svard75

jimlmackjr said:


> I was looking at building a TRI bike with it. Just trying to find out what the price might run. The one I found on Craigslist he wants 350$ sound like a good deal


Perhaps although I question if there's an issue with it in some way that prevented the seller from building it up.


----------



## BikeInCanada

svard75 said:


> Perhaps although I question if there's an issue with it in some way that prevented the seller from building it up.


Agreed. I had a buddy who had a small crash on his carbon giant tcx (I think). Anywho ... Not a ton of damage but enough. Got it repaired and you could never tell the difference or that it was accidented. He then sold it to a guy without disclosing the accident or repair. 

We are no longer speaking cause he's an asshat.


----------



## ruckus

BikeInCanada said:


> Agreed. I had a buddy who had a small crash on his carbon giant tcx (I think). Anywho ... Not a ton of damage but enough. Got it repaired and you could never tell the difference or that it was accidented. He then sold it to a guy without disclosing the accident or repair.
> 
> We are no longer speaking cause he's an asshat.


Ugh that's terrible, not disclosing the bike had to be repaired?


----------



## BikeInCanada

ruckus said:


> Ugh that's terrible, not disclosing the bike had to be repaired?


Yep. He deliberately kept the information away from the buyer. This is why we are no longer friends. I choose to not associate with people like that. 

At least with cars, there are accident records. So you have some recourse and what not.


----------



## svard75

*Chinese Carbon Thread and Ebay. direct version 6.0*



BikeInCanada said:


> Yep. He deliberately kept the information away from the buyer. This is why we are no longer friends. I choose to not associate with people like that.
> 
> At least with cars, there are accident records. So you have some recourse and what not.


Only accidents reported to insurance are on the books and only for that province or state. 

I was thinking more a qa issue or bad mold design issue rather than carbon breakage. Earlier design open mold frames could have something wrong that could prevent you from building it up. For example a BB with incorrect threads or something even less apparent.


----------



## jimlmackjr

Thanks for the concerns. The bike has been built up and ridden he just decided that tri bikes is not what he was looking for. As for the frame I can't find a single frame on ebay. I just wondering what might be the closest maker to this frame. And when I go to look at it I will try and see if I notice any cracks or damage. If u look in the pic u can see it has a BB and a campy front Derailleur and brakes.

thanks again for the info and if anyone happens to see one please send me some info thanks


----------



## percystallard

*know, I know, carbon from China.*

Hi, new on the forum. I know the subject has been beaten to death, but can I have one last shot?
First raced in 1953, last raced ten years ago, still train but olympic selection at 75 is now only a dream.
My hand built twenty yr old chrm' oly frame has a rust hole on the u/side of the top tube, so I need a new one and as I'm not dead yet, I want a carbon fiber. Yesterday I won $500 at our local casino, so I'm in business and the China frames look good to me.
I am desparate for the following information: 
On e-bay, which are the better quality brands?
What is the distance between the rear drop-outs?
What is the distance across the BB? Will my Durace 7 speed BB unit fit?
Please don't ruin an old man's dream by suggesting aluminum, I may not be fast anymore, but hell, I'm going to look like I am !!!! Thanks for any help.


----------



## mikerp

Look for an ebayer seller with a good rating, and having sold many of the items you are looking for.
Check the Chinese Carbon thread, plenty of info there (yes you will have to wade through pages and pages).
Rear Drop out spacing on current road frames is 130mm.
Without looking up what a Durace 7 BB is, my guess will be it matches up with BSA68.


----------



## horvatht

percystallard said:


> Hi, new on the forum. I know the subject has been beaten to death, but can I have one last shot?
> First raced in 1953, last raced ten years ago, still train but olympic selection at 75 is now only a dream.
> My hand built twenty yr old chrm' oly frame has a rust hole on the u/side of the top tube, so I need a new one and as I'm not dead yet, I want a carbon fiber. Yesterday I won $500 at our local casino, so I'm in business and the China frames look good to me.
> I am desparate for the following information:
> On e-bay, which are the better quality brands?
> What is the distance between the rear drop-outs?
> What is the distance across the BB? Will my Durace 7 speed BB unit fit?
> Please don't ruin an old man's dream by suggesting aluminum, I may not be fast anymore, but hell, I'm going to look like I am !!!! Thanks for any help.


Great to hear you still wanta ride. 
I have had great luck w a company in Asia. 
The name is Yoeleo you can go to there web site at http://www.yoeleobike.com
In the last two years I have purchased 4 sets of wheels. There has been no problems w what they sold me. Hopefully will be purchasing a track bike frame as I have gotten a chance to start riding in a local enclosed velodrome. They have many choices of frames. Prices are great. 

Good luck and happy riding!


----------



## bvber

percystallard said:


> Yesterday I won $500 at our local casino, so I'm in business and the China frames look good to me.


I received an email yesterday from Sally Hu of Shenzhen Zhongwei Composite Material Co. about Z-CB-R-002 frame on sale for $435 including shipping. This frame has been getting a lot of praises lately.


----------



## BikeInCanada

bvber said:


> I received an email yesterday from Sally Hu of Shenzhen Zhongwei Composite Material Co. about Z-CB-R-002 frame on sale for $435 including shipping. This frame has been getting a lot of praises lately.


Have only had the frame for a week but I can this far say it's amazing. So smooth. Well balanced. Loving it.


----------



## asianarnold1

*BLUE DRAGON fm098 in the mail !!*

it shipped out 4/28 with tracking#. i received pics after they already shipped it. not the greatest pics due to angles and lighting, but i think they did a great job. hope it will look much better in person. enjoy....


----------



## wanabtawi

asianarnold1 said:


> it shipped out 4/28 with tracking#. i received pics after they already shipped it. not the greatest pics due to angles and lighting, but i think they did a great job. hope it will look much better in person. enjoy....


Very Nice!


----------



## percystallard

Thanks. My Durace bottom braket is a sealed unit with British thread. I'm worried about the overall width fitting, because it has the tapered square shaft, not the splined shaft and if I have to change it, I would have to get a new chainring set.


----------



## ruckus

percystallard said:


> Thanks. My Durace bottom braket is a sealed unit with British thread. I'm worried about the overall width fitting, because it has the tapered square shaft, not the splined shaft and if I have to change it, I would have to get a new chainring set.


I ride Flyxii from Ebay, 5 day shipping. Also used a sealed Shimano BB and no issues.

Fr 322 Full Carbon UD Matt Road Bike BSA Frame Fork Headset 50 52 54 56 | eBay


----------



## svard75

percystallard said:


> Thanks. My Durace bottom braket is a sealed unit with British thread. I'm worried about the overall width fitting, because it has the tapered square shaft, not the splined shaft and if I have to change it, I would have to get a new chainring set.


The only thing with the tapered BB that I would be worried about is the spindle width I think that's the Q factor. New frame may have a wider profile of chainstays esp going from thin tubed cro mo frames. Even more problematic with a triple chainset.


----------



## percystallard

Thanks, that's what I needed. Only problem, as usual, I need a 55cm, at present I ride a 56, but with age I need to drop cos I'm shrinking, but I don't know about dropping all the way to 54. Aint it always the same !!!!!!


----------



## ruckus

percystallard said:


> Thanks, that's what I needed. Only problem, as usual, I need a 55cm, at present I ride a 56, but with age I need to drop cos I'm shrinking, but I don't know about dropping all the way to 54. Aint it always the same !!!!!!


It's a straight toptube. 54 will probably be big enough. I'm 5'7 and the 52 was bigger than I expected, still a good fit though. It's not a compact frame like a Tarmac.




svard75 said:


> The only thing with the tapered BB that I would be worried about is the spindle width I think that's the Q factor. New frame may have a wider profile of chainstays esp going from thin tubed cro mo frames. Even more problematic with a triple chainset.


At least with Flyxii this is not a problem. It's the standard 68 English threaded. They make up for it by making the downtube and the bottom of the seattube as wide as the BB. It's huge. Comparing to Giant/Specialized bikes with wider BB, the Flyxii I think still has a more robustly built BB since those frames are focused on weight.


----------



## percystallard

Once again, thanks. I'll have to think about it for a while. The main problem would be the top tube. My present frame was built with a 56.5cm top tube and the 54 is only 54.5. I can live with a little less, but 2cm difference on a top tube is a lot. I am 5' 9", used to be 5' 10 1/2" !!!!!!


----------



## CabDoctor

Are there any other reliable sources for the VB-R-041 Carbon Fiber Road Bike Racing Frame? Also does anyone have any experiences with this frame and maybe even a picture of the frame in the raw finish? Thank you


----------



## kleek

CabDoctor said:


> Are there any other reliable sources for the VB-R-041 Carbon Fiber Road Bike Racing Frame? Also does anyone have any experiences with this frame and maybe even a picture of the frame in the raw finish? Thank you


Velobuild seems to be the most reliable source for this particular frame now. It seems to be one of the few places I've seen that use a photo of the actual frame rather than a photo of a 'legit' frame with the official logos photoshopped (badly) out.

I purchased mine direct from Zhongwei through Chris (who now works for Velobuild) and it was a very pleasant exchange for the most part (never did receive my spacers or spare derailleur hanger).

The picture below is their matt UD finish:

View attachment 294973


Built mine up with a mix of SRAM Red and Force parts and some Easton wheels to around 6.9kg/15.5lbs (+/-) (56 Frame)

Ride experience would vary on the rider but from my personal experience coming from an alloy frame, it really does let you put the hammer down quicker whilst not being overly harsh in terms of comfort. I'm quite happy with it though again this is only my opinion.


----------



## tt-01 mamba

asianarnold1 said:


> it shipped out 4/28 with tracking#. i received pics after they already shipped it. not the greatest pics due to angles and lighting, but i think they did a great job. hope it will look much better in person. enjoy....



Looking great! 

I've got a question you may be able to answer.
I'm currently designing my paint job with Dengfu, the paint for 3 colours is quotes at $73, that's good.
I asked about decals, they said decals were $100 and to add a white line is $25. 
What does this mean exactly? I only want to add some writing onto the frame, no fancy pictures.

1, Adding white colour is $25 on top of my $73 paint scheme (so brings the total number of colours to 4) and the price to $98?

2, To add decals to my existing 3 colour paint will add $100 to the $73 paint making it $173 total.

A secondary question, was your lettering painted on or decals? If painted and if I understood them correctly, I could chose option 1 and save myself a heap of money.


----------



## tt-01 mamba

So i've got an initial design. 

1, Firstly i'll change the red and blue to a more classic "gulf" paint colours. 
( https://www.rsportscars.com/eng/articles/images01/ford_gt_heritage_03.jpg ) 
2, I'll also extend the stripes on the down tube all the way to the head tube. 
3, There's still to be writing on the side of the top tube, chain stay and fork. 

What would people change on it? What would you have on the side of the down tube? 
Finally, gloss or matte? 









Im trying to go for the retro old meets new look.


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## ruckus

I love matte look.


----------



## Blue Bird

Has anyone experienced a delay from EMS once their frame shipped?

I bought wheels and a frame from Yoeleo. The wheels shipped and left Xiamen 4/19, hit New York on 4/21, and were delivered 4/22. 

The frame shipped and left Xiamen on 4/22, and have not yet arrived in New York. Is this unprecedented, or is this within normalcy for EMS? Is it possible the frame is stuck in customs, and if so, how long would the delay be?


----------



## horvatht

Blue Bird said:


> Has anyone experienced a delay from EMS once their frame shipped?
> 
> I bought wheels and a frame from Yoeleo. The wheels shipped and left Xiamen 4/19, hit New York on 4/21, and were delivered 4/22.
> 
> The frame shipped and left Xiamen on 4/22, and have not yet arrived in New York. Is this unprecedented, or is this within normalcy for EMS? Is it possible the frame is stuck in customs, and if so, how long would the delay be?


Yes I had that problem to 
Use usps tracking after it hits the USA


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## horvatht

https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction!input.action


----------



## Blue Bird

I have tracked it on USPS and EMS. The last entry is the exit from Xiamen on 4/22.

Thanks though!


----------



## paterberg

I've bought a couple of frames from Chinese vendors, both unpainted. I was hoping to get the next one painted with decals but I was wondering where other members are getting the frame image templates and paint schemes such as the excellent example below. Cheers.


----------



## Maglore

paterberg said:


> I've bought a couple of frames from Chinese vendors, both unpainted. I was hoping to get the next one painted with decals but I was wondering where other members are getting the frame image templates and paint schemes such as the excellent example below. Cheers.
> 
> View attachment 294997


E-mail/message them and they will send you a jpeg 'template' of the frame.


----------



## IRideMyBikeFast

*MIRACLE AERO CHINESE carbon frame?*

Hey Guys, I'm thinking of custom building my new bike, and so far I've found a frame I actually like and is in my price range its called the: Miracle Aero 007 (alibaba, aliexpress, ebay). So just a few questions (haha):
1. It says its Aero so is it?
2. Has anyone bought this frame or from the company cause the company check out to be legit?
3. Is it compatible with Ultegra di2 and which groupset model will I need?
4. Should I even bother with a chinese frame?

Thanks in advance


----------



## MMsRepBike

haha.

1.yes. Well pretty much. Good enough.
2. yes. yes.
3. yes. Shimano 6870.
4. sure? 

Check out the Scott Foil. The fame you want is a clone of it.


----------



## IRideMyBikeFast

Hey mate have you had any experience with this frame in particular?


----------



## MMsRepBike

Nope but if you look back there's many on this forum that have. I haven't seen anything bad about it really.


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## IRideMyBikeFast

Ok, thanks mate


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## Blue Bird

horvatht said:


> Yes I had that problem to
> Use usps tracking after it hits the USA


The number is EE983504887CN. The EMS tracking has 4 entries in Xiamen, all on 4/22. The USPS has 2 entries in Xiamen on 4/22. Nothing else since. 

I called my local PO and asked about it, he said that if it is in customs in New York, it will not be scanned again until it clears; which could explain why there are no updates since 4/22. I am just surprised because the wheels cleared customs in a day.


----------



## percystallard

*carbon frames*

All of the frames from China quote the BB as BSA or BB68, excuse my ignorance, but which will accept a Shimano UN73 English thread bottom bracket unit? (my existing equipment is old, but I still need to re-use it on a new frame)
There is a Colnago (imitation) frame with everything incl seatpost for about $600, it looks great, does nayone know of any problems with this item, it only has the BB68 bottom bracket and maybe that won't suit my existing. Thanks.


----------



## MMsRepBike

percystallard said:


> All of the frames from China quote the BB as BSA or BB68, excuse my ignorance, but which will accept a Shimano UN73 English thread bottom bracket unit? (my existing equipment is old, but I still need to re-use it on a new frame)
> There is a Colnago (imitation) frame with everything incl seatpost for about $600, it looks great, does nayone know of any problems with this item, it only has the BB68 bottom bracket and maybe that won't suit my existing. Thanks.


BSA is what you want for Shimano. English thread is common. Shimano BB's are cheap so it won't hurt to get a new one for the bike if needed.

As for the counterfeit Colnago, well if that's your thing but you're not going to be fooling anyone that knows anything. I work at a Colnago dealer and we consider ourselves experts in counterfeit frames. I could spot your fake from ten feet away and anyone that simply wants to compare some pictures can tell the difference. We just had a fake S-Works roll in today for service. We do frown upon them and we immediately let the customer know that we know it's fake. We still work on them. None of our guarantees or warranties apply to fake bikes though.

Not only is the paint incorrect but who knows how the frame was made. It's not their design, it's just a copy of some other company's design... bleh no need for me to ramble. If you want it, get it but just know you're not fooling anyone. BSA is what you want for a BB, BSA english thread.


----------



## percystallard

I understand exactly what you are saying, but my racing days are over and I.ust enjoy riding with friends, who well know what the deal is. The Colnago has a BB68 bottom bracket, so I guess that won't work. I have the old square ended axle so buying a different bb would probably involve buying a more modern crank set and I can't afford that. If I don't go for the Colnago knock-off, I'll be buying one of the other carbon fiber frames and I just like the pretty paint better than the matte or glossy black.


----------



## MMsRepBike

BB68 is fine, it will work. What crank do you have specifically?


----------



## Maglore

IRideMyBikeFast said:


> Hey Guys, I'm thinking of custom building my new bike, and so far I've found a frame I actually like and is in my price range its called the: Miracle Aero 007 (alibaba, aliexpress, ebay). So just a few questions (haha):
> 1. It says its Aero so is it?
> 2. Has anyone bought this frame or from the company cause the company check out to be legit?
> 3. Is it compatible with Ultegra di2 and which groupset model will I need?
> 4. Should I even bother with a chinese frame?
> 
> Thanks in advance


To help with your search, the frame is also called the MC053 or AC053.


----------



## palmettoguy

Aero007 frame arrived today...now I just have to build it up.


----------



## palmettoguy

Duplicate post


----------



## percystallard

I have 172 600 Ultegra with the tapered square ends. My existing bottom bracket is 73mm wide, is this likely to be a problem. Appreciate your information. Thanks.


----------



## MMsRepBike

percystallard said:


> I have 172 600 Ultegra with the tapered square ends. My existing bottom bracket is 73mm wide, is this likely to be a problem. Appreciate your information. Thanks.


I think you'll need a new bottom bracket, one that's 68mm and english threaded. Shouldn't be too hard of a fix, otherwise should work okay. I think you need a UN-73? don't quote me on that.


----------



## Blue Bird

Blue Bird said:


> The number is EE983504887CN. The EMS tracking has 4 entries in Xiamen, all on 4/22. The USPS has 2 entries in Xiamen on 4/22. Nothing else since.
> 
> I called my local PO and asked about it, he said that if it is in customs in New York, it will not be scanned again until it clears; which could explain why there are no updates since 4/22. I am just surprised because the wheels cleared customs in a day.


Looks like it cleared customs today, woot!


----------



## percystallard

The bottom bracket that I have now is a UN73 and the shell on my frame measures 73mm wide. I don't mind buying a new one for 68mm, but the problem is that I have the old style square tapered ends and I would have to buy a new crank set with the new type splined axle ends


----------



## bvber

percystallard said:


> but the problem is that I have the old style square tapered ends and I would have to buy a new crank set with the new type splined axle ends


That's the downside of this market. They keep changing things so that the consumers have to keep spending more.


----------



## BikeInCanada

bvber said:


> That's the downside of this market. They keep changing things so that the consumers have to keep spending more.


To be fair, it's not really specific to the cycling market. There are many markets that do this.


----------



## MMsRepBike

percystallard said:


> The bottom bracket that I have now is a UN73 and the shell on my frame measures 73mm wide. I don't mind buying a new one for 68mm, but the problem is that I have the old style square tapered ends and I would have to buy a new crank set with the new type splined axle ends


I'm fairly certain they make a UN-73 68mm in square tapered. You should be just fine. Have your tried checking ebay yet?


----------



## bvber

BikeInCanada said:


> To be fair, it's not really specific to the cycling market. There are many markets that do this.


For sure. Computer market does much more (by technical necessity).


----------



## palmettoguy

*White tubes*

What is the purpose of the white tubes that run through the internal cable routing and are taped to the frame?
Do you run your brake/shifter cables through the tubes?


----------



## MMsRepBike

palmettoguy said:


> What is the purpose of the white tubes that run through the internal cable routing and are taped to the frame?
> Do you run your brake/shifter cables through the tubes?


They're not all tubes, but yes.

If the bike comes with internal routed housing, the "tubes" will just be pieces of thick fishing line or something to that effect. They're there to show you which hole goes where.

If the bike does not come with internal routed housing, the "tubes" should be just that, long pieces of thin tubing. In this case yes, you run your cable through the tubing and once it comes out the other side then you slide the tubing off of the cable. Making it a cable guide. 

If it is indeed tubing do not throw it away, you will need it every time you replace cables. You'll do the same process in reverse, threading the tubing on to the existing cable before removing the cable from the frame. Then you'll thread the new cable in to the tubing like you did the first time.

If one of the lengths of tubing falls out you'll have to resort to one of the many methods for running internal cabling without guides.


----------



## percystallard

problem solved through stupidity !! I get hell from my wife for not reading instructions, so,on the off chance I went and read the notes on the box containing my spare bb unit - it said '68' !!!! I must have purchased it wrong years ago - there is a God !!! Appreciate all the help, I had never taken notice of the bottom bracket terminology, hence my mistake, but now I'm up to speed. Thanks.


----------



## palmettoguy

Thanks MMS!!!


----------



## Ashbringer

View attachment 295051
View attachment 295052

im going to build my new bike with this frame, i have booked one,and there's still one week to wait.


----------



## percystallard

Well it seems like my problems are not over !!! I decided to buy the red imitation Colnago with aero seatpost through Aliexpress. However, I got all of the way through the purchase process almost to handing over the money and I still hadn't been given the opportunity to give the size I needed. There was no box up front and none appeared as I went through. I have had to step back and send a question to them, does nayone know his happened or does it come on the very last step? Sorry about the disjointed text, but the cursor will not reposition and the backspace takes forever.

Also, off subject, I am having hell with computer freeze on this webpage, I have to communicate in the short time when the cursor and the screen will move, takes s to do thisc mail Is it my computer or is anyone else having this problem?


----------



## ruckus

Usually there is option to choose size when you add to cart, or you have to email them after and tell them what size you want.

But can't say for sure since I don't which bike this is from which vendor. Maybe with more info someone has ordered from this dealer?


----------



## MMsRepBike

percystallard said:


> Well it seems like my problems are not over !!! I decided to buy the red imitation Colnago with aero seatpost through Aliexpress. However, I got all of the way through the purchase process almost to handing over the money and I still hadn't been given the opportunity to give the size I needed. There was no box up front and none appeared as I went through. I have had to step back and send a question to them, does nayone know his happened or does it come on the very last step? Sorry about the disjointed text, but the cursor will not reposition and the backspace takes forever.
> 
> Also, off subject, I am having hell with computer freeze on this webpage, I have to communicate in the short time when the cursor and the screen will move, takes s to do thisc mail Is it my computer or is anyone else having this problem?


It seems on that site you don't choose size up front. Kind of like ebay on some stuff. Usually in this case the seller will email you and ask you the size and make sure the color is correct. You could be proactive and contact them but they will certainly ask. They want you to be happy, keep that in mind, so they're not just going to send you whatever, they will ask you what you want and work from there. Hopefully they have your size and color in stock for you. Nothing to worry about really.

Which one has an aero seatpost? 

I have heard of the same thing recently, but only from maybe one or two people.
I would suggest the usual of clearing your cache and deleting all temporary internet files and browsing history to see it that helps. I think the other guy had the problem after switching to windows 8.1? I'm on win8 with chrome and zero issues.


----------



## kleek

MMsRepBike said:


> Which one has an aero seatpost?


The Colnago CLX frames use a proprietary 'aero' seatpost if I'm not mistaken


----------



## percystallard

There was definitely no place to state required size and I don't feel comfortable commiting $600 on the off chance that they contact me. I have sent them an e-mail pointing out my problem, I guess that I just cool my heels 'til i hear.

The Colnago look alike from Aliexpress comes with fork and headset for $590 or $620 with aero seatpost, since I don't have a 31.6 post, I went with the $620. Now that I've decided, I want the damn thing here !! Having to wait around for info is a bummer.

On the 'freeze' matter, I have used all of my programs to reorganize and defrag and it is about 59% better today.


----------



## MMsRepBike

percystallard said:


> There was definitely no place to state required size and I don't feel comfortable commiting $600 on the off chance that they contact me. I have sent them an e-mail pointing out my problem, I guess that I just cool my heels 'til i hear.
> 
> The Colnago look alike from Aliexpress comes with fork and headset for $590 or $620 with aero seatpost, since I don't have a 31.6 post, I went with the $620. Now that I've decided, I want the damn thing here !! Having to wait around for info is a bummer.
> 
> On the 'freeze' matter, I have used all of my programs to reorganize and defrag and it is about 59% better today.


Okay, I see the confusion. A 31.6 post is not an "aero" post. Nor is a 27.2 or 25.4 or 30.9. They're all round. Hence, not "aero" as the wing shaped posts are. We normally only call a seatpost aero if it is not round and usually they're made only for that frame. $30 for a post is a fine price, just hopefully the clamping mechanism for the seat rails is of good quality. The Chinese will call anything aero, lol. It's a good thing though, a standard round seapost is easy to replace, a proprietary aero one is not.

Is it the M10 that you're looking at? Make sure they ship using EMS instead of some normal China Post or whatever. EMS is very fast, you could have it in a week from the time they shipped it with that service.


----------



## ruckus

Good advice. Chinese Post can be within a week or 2 months. It's unreliable. EMS and DHL IMO is much better than FedEx/UPS here in US.


----------



## percystallard

Yes it is the M10. The list of items lists aero and the photo shows the frame mounted with what appears to be a flat section seat post, painted with the frame colors. Anyway, as you say, I probably couldn't get any better post for $30 no matter how it turns out. Will take your advice on shipping if they give me a choice. On that subject, I live in a gated community and we don't get delivery of USPS, we have to list our PO Box, however we do get delivery from UPS and FedEx, so I have to be sure to give a suitable delivery address. Does nayone know which service they use for final delivery?


----------



## MMsRepBike

percystallard said:


> Yes it is the M10. The list of items lists aero and the photo shows the frame mounted with what appears to be a flat section seat post, painted with the frame colors. Anyway, as you say, I probably couldn't get any better post for $30 no matter how it turns out. Will take your advice on shipping if they give me a choice. On that subject, I live in a gated community and we don't get delivery of USPS, we have to list our PO Box, however we do get delivery from UPS and FedEx, so I have to be sure to give a suitable delivery address. Does nayone know which service they use for final delivery?


USPS. It will come as an express mail package which is their overnight level of service. A PO Box is fine, you can just pick it up at the office.


----------



## asianarnold1

*worth it*



tt-01 mamba said:


> Looking great!
> 
> I've got a question you may be able to answer.
> I'm currently designing my paint job with Dengfu, the paint for 3 colours is quotes at $73, that's good.
> I asked about decals, they said decals were $100 and to add a white line is $25.
> What does this mean exactly? I only want to add some writing onto the frame, no fancy pictures.
> 
> 1, Adding white colour is $25 on top of my $73 paint scheme (so brings the total number of colours to 4) and the price to $98?
> 
> 2, To add decals to my existing 3 colour paint will add $100 to the $73 paint making it $173 total.
> 
> A secondary question, was your lettering painted on or decals? If painted and if I understood them correctly, I could chose option 1 and save myself a heap of money.


sorry for the long wait on replying. 

first off, much kudos to Dengfu for a phenomenal work on my fm098. it's so much better in person than what i can capture on pics. communication was clear and i used powerpoint drawings with red arrows and circles to show my multiple corrections. i'll try to answer your questions: 

1. My paints were matte black, gloss black and gloss blue. so 3 colors for $83. i would assume your white line is an additional color charge, so 4 colors for $98 is a good deal. you really can't get that price at your local bike shop.

2. My decals cost $150, since mine were complicated dragons and yin-yangs. I asked them to split the Yin on one side of the seatpost and seatube, and the Yang on the other side. I also sent them an iPhone pic of my signature and they were able to get it on my frame! 

3. My letters were painted on, but i think they use a letter decal then paint it on, then remove decals. depending on your design. On mine, some letters are raised, and other are indented. 
You need to clarify with them if they consider lettering as 'paint' and not 'decal' 

my Blue Dragon fm098 is my own and no one else has it. With pride, I will ride these saturday and monday hammerfest rides next to Venge guy with their zipps and power blah blah, along with 40-50 others, and say "Yes, it's a Chinese carbon frame!! See ya"


----------



## BurstKid

I see people getting decals, but the posts are from like 2 years ago. I already have my frame and just want to stick some stickers on it. I did some google searching, but the ones that show up don't seem to take any custom orders. Does anybody have any other recommended that I can get some custom decals designed for my top tube, seat tube, downtube, and seat stays?


----------



## tt-01 mamba

Thanks for your help, that dragon looks slick! 

Have just sent my design into them, hoping I can avoid having to use decals and just add a white colour.


----------



## nirVELOvana

Ashbringer said:


> View attachment 295051
> View attachment 295052
> 
> im going to build my new bike with this frame, i have booked one,and there's still one week to wait.


Just a heads-up Ashbringer. Whatever you thought you uploaded, was not uploaded...



vBulletin Message said:


> Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator


I'm curious to see what frame — _and size_ — you went with.


----------



## ruckus

percystallard said:


> Yes it is the M10. The list of items lists aero and the photo shows the frame mounted with what appears to be a flat section seat post, painted with the frame colors. Anyway, as you say, I probably couldn't get any better post for $30 no matter how it turns out. Will take your advice on shipping if they give me a choice. On that subject, I live in a gated community and we don't get delivery of USPS, we have to list our PO Box, however we do get delivery from UPS and FedEx, so I have to be sure to give a suitable delivery address. Does nayone know which service they use for final delivery?


Go with an open frame. These frames look like a lot of the branded bikes on the road, since they all copy each other. The good open frames all have the hallmarks of the top end frames. Compliant seatstays. Tapered seatpost and headtube. Large downtube and oversized, reinforced bottom bracket. From what I glean off the net, these OEMs do produce frames for other brands, so it makes sense they have knowledge of what makes a torsional strong frame, with stiffness where it counts with knowledge of how to do proper layup with good weight. My frame is supposedly around 1.5 kg with frame and fork, which is right up there with the best, Specialized, Giant, Scott, Cannondale etc. 

You can find decals or have them custom made to plaster your bike with Colnago. I don't see what the point of getting a Colnago lookalike though since you buy Colnago for a bike made by Colnago, not because it has the logo. And these bikes are clearly not in the Colnago tradition. The true Colnago is the C59 with lugged, bonded tubes.


----------



## RaptorTC

BurstKid said:


> I see people getting decals, but the posts are from like 2 years ago. I already have my frame and just want to stick some stickers on it. I did some google searching, but the ones that show up don't seem to take any custom orders. Does anybody have any other recommended that I can get some custom decals designed for my top tube, seat tube, downtube, and seat stays?


Check out Marco here Stickers Design . Just email him with what you're looking for and he'll get you set up. 

I ordered decals for my FM098. They came out great, and he even made a custom headtube badge for me.


----------



## Blue Bird

I don't think anyone else has built up a YCRDF01 from Yoeleo yet, so here are some pics.





The frame came in at 965g, less than quoted. The fork was 402g (uncut) and the post was 220g.

Quality was excellent. The only issue I had was with the little plate on the bottom bracket that the cables are routed through - one groove was slightly tight on the edge, I widened it with a file in seconds. Everything else was great.


----------



## ruckus

Curious how many of you left the internal lining in the frame or removed it? I removed it.


----------



## BikeInCanada

ruckus said:


> Curious how many of you left the internal lining in the frame or removed it? I removed it.


I removed mine as well. I kept it tho ... Just in case.


----------



## ruckus

I wish there was data on these open frames on the torsion, stiffness etc.


----------



## MMsRepBike

ruckus said:


> Curious how many of you left the internal lining in the frame or removed it? I removed it.


What internal lining? Do you mean the internal cable routing guides/housing?
Or do you mean the internal bladder lining some leave in after making the frame?


----------



## CabDoctor

kleek said:


> Velobuild seems to be the most reliable source for this particular frame now. It seems to be one of the few places I've seen that use a photo of the actual frame rather than a photo of a 'legit' frame with the official logos photoshopped (badly) out.
> 
> I purchased mine direct from Zhongwei through Chris (who now works for Velobuild) and it was a very pleasant exchange for the most part (never did receive my spacers or spare derailleur hanger).
> 
> The picture below is their matt UD finish:
> 
> View attachment 294973
> 
> 
> Built mine up with a mix of SRAM Red and Force parts and some Easton wheels to around 6.9kg/15.5lbs (+/-) (56 Frame)
> 
> Ride experience would vary on the rider but from my personal experience coming from an alloy frame, it really does let you put the hammer down quicker whilst not being overly harsh in terms of comfort. I'm quite happy with it though again this is only my opinion.


Did you by chance weigh yours?


----------



## saad

My "R5" Arrived from Feel-Bicycles the other day. Very impressed, it looks a pretty much perfect copy, and the paint job was great too, the pearl is brilliant.

The frame came in at 972g with all hardware except seatpost collar. It is a 56. Came with a bottom bracket installed too, to suit Shimano, which I had to remove. I might make a build thread, whats the best place to do that?

Have some rubbish pics, will upload proper ones soon:










Pear finish:










Applying paint protection:










Cranks installed:


----------



## ruckus

Wow, that's great that it came with Shimano adapter for those who love Shimano cranks!


----------



## ruckus

MMsRepBike said:


> What internal lining? Do you mean the internal cable routing guides/housing?
> Or do you mean the internal bladder lining some leave in after making the frame?


The white lining tube that are used to guide the cable easier on internal cabling.


----------



## ruckus

*Flyxii FR-322 Carbon confirmed*

Just want to let others know if you are considering the Flyxii FR-322, this is a Toray T800. I know on their website, ebay and alibaba, they do not advertise this. I have correspondence both from Flyxii and their dealer on Ebay, it's Toray T800, it's not unknown Chinese carbon or fiberglass as a douche competitor rep on a MtB forum had implied about Flyxii.

That's all. Just wanted to let Flyxii FR-322 owners and those interested know what this bike is made of.


----------



## MMsRepBike

ruckus said:


> The white lining tube that are used to guide the cable easier on internal cabling.


Well some frames like the FR-315 have these permanently installed, and in that case I leave them. This is very rare though. Usually a frame, even the most expensive frames in the world, will just come with the routing tubing loose. There's usually no tubing actually installed as part of the structure of the bike like it is in the FR-315. So usually the tubes just route the cables and are removed, they're not supposed to be used inside the frame at all, just bare cables in there. 

In cases like the FR-315 where the tubing is inside the frame, unseen, and part of the construction of the frame, they will not give you the loose tubing for easy routing. Instead they just stick some fishing wire or whatever in there just to show you which hole goes where. In cases like that I do and would leave the internal tubing there as the manufacturer designed it.


----------



## ruckus

Thanks MMSRepBike, this is the first internal gear cable bike I've used. Was just making sure the cables inside the tubes weren't going to damage the carbon.


----------



## elvispresley2k

I'm looking to build a cheap tri-rig and considering the IP-009 frame sold at XMI. But I can't find much info about it. Even build pictures seem scarce. IP-009 2013 New Style! Super light carbon triathlon frame, carbon tt frame-Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.

Anyone one know if this frame is sold by other manufacturers? specs, photos below.














Thanks!


----------



## ruckus

You can't buy from iPlay?

2013 Promotion Tt Bicycle Frame Carbon Tt Frame Bike Time Trial 52/54/56cm - Buy Bike Time Trial,Frame Bike Time Trial,Tt Frame Bike Time Trial Product on Alibaba.com


----------



## ruckus

*Collection of images/videos of Chinese manufacturing*

A collection of Chinese manufacturing


----------



## ruckus

Another Chinese Titanium manufacturer


----------



## Guod

Both Giant and Merida are Taiwanese companies.


----------



## ruckus

Showing that even knockoff manufacturers test their bikes for strength.


----------



## ruckus

Guod said:


> Both Giant and Merida are Taiwanese companies.


Yes I know, that's why I said I hope Chinese can grow into their own brand as Merida/Giant has. Both companies began as manufacturers but are now major brands. Chinese manufacturers have not made that jump yet.


----------



## ruckus

Picture tour of Swift Carbon Manufacturer

Gallery: Swift Carbon: Inside a high-end Chinese bike factory Review - BikeRadar

This frame is being tortured with 100,000 cycles of a 1,100N (110kg) load. It’s clamped at the head tube and rear dropouts so the force is focused through the bottom bracket. The pistons push on levers that replicate the pedal position. This is a comfort-oriented frame (not a Swift) and the bottom bracket was swinging side to side by several centimetres

View attachment 295224


This is where it gets brutal. We didn’t get to see it in action but we’ve seen one before and it basically involves swinging a huge sledgehammer from a given height into the front axle to see if the head tube snaps off. It replicates riding into a wall at around 20kph

View attachment 295225


----------



## ruckus

Orbea Carbon Bikes are manufactured in China, not Spain or Taiwan.

https://www.bicyclingnewsasia.com/e...1189-china-orbea-bicycle-factory-tour-kunshan


----------



## ruckus

Q2 Cycling. How they manufacturer carbon wheels and frames. They also use Toray carbon.


----------



## ruckus

Supposedly HongFu factory images

https://www.google.com/search?q=213...a=X&ei=sWVFU5O_KNCu7Aa47YDYCg&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ


----------



## ruckus

Supposedly DengFu factory

DengFu Factory


----------



## r1lee

Guod said:


> Both Giant and Merida are Taiwanese companies.


Giant has moved majority of its operations to China.


----------



## T800

r1lee said:


> Giant has moved majority of its operations to China.


I think King Liu insists keeping most Giant bikes made in Daiji, Taiwan.


----------



## ruckus

T800 said:


> I think King Liu insists keeping most Giant bikes made in Daiji, Taiwan.


I believe both Merida and Giant have moved their carbon manufacturing to China. Actually I think Merida has more factories in China than in Taiwan now. I may be wrong, but I think Giant manufactures Carbon in China and AL still in Taiwan. Giant has 3 factories that I could find out about, and one of the produces twice as many bikes as their factory in Taiwan. Chengdu, Kunshan, and Pudong factories produce far more bikes than their Taiwan factory. They have 3 other in China what I gathered, 6 factories in China.


----------



## T800

ruckus said:


> Also their flagship factory in Taiwan is in Taichung.


Daija is one of districts of Taichung.


----------



## ruckus

T800 said:


> Daija is one of districts of Taichung.


Yeah edited my post when I read that, haha.


----------



## nirVELOvana

saad said:


> My "R5" Arrived from Feel-Bicycles the other day. Very impressed, it looks a pretty much perfect copy, and the paint job was great too, the pearl is brilliant.
> 
> The frame came in at 972g with all hardware except seatpost collar. It is a 56. Came with a bottom bracket installed too, to suit Shimano, which I had to remove. I might make a build thread, whats the best place to do that?
> 
> Have some rubbish pics, will upload proper ones soon:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pear finish:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Applying paint protection:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cranks installed:


Sweet! _That polished alloy finishing kit's_ gonna really make it pop I bet!

Your paint job is killer, saad. Pearl White is the only Y.S. Paint color that really does anythng for me. A bud of mine has a Pearl White Boardman. That color is stunning in person. Do you recall what Y.S. Paint color number you specified?

Their catalog has a couple different "_Pearlized_" White options:


_Pearlized_
_Waterborne Pearlized_
Since my frame's paint job (_standard white_) is still in a holding pattern, your Pearl White has got me kicking around the idea of an eleventh hour change 

Also — what is that in that "_Modesto_" bottle? Just curious. Thanks man :thumbsup:


----------



## saad

Hey

I didn't specify it, I said I wanted pearl white, they sent me a sample photo, and I said yep. It was YS 775 I believe.

The Modesta is a glass coating, used for cars, similar to a wax, but thicker and basically permanent, and gives incredible gloss and depth. I run a high end detailing business on the side, and had some left over (it costs a fortune), so decided to apply it to protect the frame and make it easier to clean - see Obsession Car Detailing

More pics:

























































Weight of fork









Weight of Frame









Pressing SRAM BB in.


----------



## ruckus

What's that black irregular patch on the bottom of the bracket? Also your bikes tubes are pretty thin and small BB. Haven't seen that on the recent open frames. Probably looks bigger in person.

780grams? That's a lot lighter than the real R5 I bet. T800 does wonders I guess, how thin is the tubing? My FR-322 is T800 as well, but the tubing is thick, 300 grams more T800 than your frame.


----------



## nirVELOvana

saad said:


> Hey
> 
> I didn't specify it, I said I wanted pearl white, they sent me a sample photo, and I said yep. It was YS 775 I believe.
> 
> The Modesta is a glass coating, used for cars, similar to a wax, but thicker and basically permanent, and gives incredible gloss and depth. I run a high end detailing business on the side, and had some left over (it costs a fortune), so decided to apply it to protect the frame and make it easier to clean - see Obsession Car Detailing
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing that, saad. I can see where your taste for breath-taking paint jobs comes from  I had figured — _seeing your flair for design in your bike's graphics_ — that there was some sort of visual element in your background. Did you design your logo yourself? Awesome on so many levels :thumbsup:

My sales gal now says my standard white was actually painted today. Now just waiting on their decal shop to work their magic.

Oh well. I was too late for pearl white this time. On the upside I have one more thing to look forward to for next year's _S3_ build


----------



## saad

ruckus said:


> What's that black irregular patch on the bottom of the bracket? Also your bikes tubes are pretty thin and small BB. Haven't seen that on the recent open frames. Probably looks bigger in person.
> 
> 780grams? That's a lot lighter than the real R5 I bet. T800 does wonders I guess, how thin is the tubing? My FR-322 is T800 as well, but the tubing is thick, 300 grams more T800 than your frame.


It was 972g not 780 - not sure where I said 780? 972 with hanger, bolts etc etc.

The black patch is a hole. Thats where the bit to route the cable goes, or the bit for wires if running electronic shifting. So the plastic piece clips in there. You remove it to route the cables.


----------



## ruckus

saad said:


> It was 972g not 780 - not sure where I said 780? 972 with hanger, bolts etc etc.
> 
> The black patch is a hole. Thats where the bit to route the cable goes, or the bit for wires if running electronic shifting. So the plastic piece clips in there. You remove it to route the cables.


780 was the stated weight for just the frame from Feel Bicycles. Real R5 is around 808 grams. Would be fun to ride the real R5 to compare to your bike, and return here to relay your experience.

Because owners of real bikes like to emphasize that theirs is better because of superior carbon layup. I have my doubts, I would think as long as the geometry, shape of tubes are the same, the ride shouldn't be noticeable on blind test rides.


----------



## saad

nirVELOvana said:


> Thanks for sharing that, saad. I can see where your taste for breath-taking paint jobs comes from  I had figured — _seeing your flair for design in your bike's graphics_ — that there was some sort of visual element in your background. Did you design your logo yourself? Awesome on so many levels :thumbsup:
> 
> My sales gal now says my standard white was actually painted today. Now just waiting on their decal shop to work their magic.
> 
> Oh well. I was too late for pearl white this time. On the upside I have one more thing to look forward to for next year's _S3_ build


TBH I saw a Ritte bike design, thought it was simple and worked, and changed the colours, minus a few things. The idea was something similar that leaves room for decals for branding/my business etc. Was thinking eventually would get a few made, and use them for trade shows and the like. Guys with expensive cars like expensive bikes too!

Unfortunately I'm not much of a designer in terms of the graphics application side of things, more of a photographer haha. I didn't design the logo as I know nothing about vector graphics, but did develop it in terms of a pencil and paper! I like to think I have a good eye!


----------



## ruckus

Just find an art school, probably some student will do it for free just for the experience and to have their work on your bike.


----------



## saad

ruckus said:


> 780 was the stated weight for just the frame from Feel Bicycles. Real R5 is around 808 grams. Would be fun to ride the real R5 to compare to your bike, and return here to relay your experience.
> 
> Because owners of real bikes like to emphasize that theirs is better because of superior carbon layup. I have my doubts, I would think as long as the geometry, shape of tubes are the same, the ride shouldn't be noticeable on blind test rides.


Defnitely would be. I've briefly ridden an R3, which is what inspired me to get this.

Also, I will post some more pics soon but its ridiculous - the covers for the BB for running electronic, and the the cable guide, both have Cervelo written on them, and have serial numbers!

They told be the 51 frame was 780 grams, and that a 56 was 880g. So I suppose with paint, derailleur hanger, bolts, trimmings, 972g is pretty damn close!

Also ordered some 27mm, 56mm deep tubulars


----------



## nirVELOvana

saad said:


> ...the covers for the BB for running electronic, and the the cable guide, both have Cervelo written on them, and have serial numbers!
> ...


Awesome! On so many levels :wink:


----------



## ruckus

nirVELOvana said:


> Awesome! On so many levels :wink:


Post your bike! nirVELOvana, don't think you've posted your bike yet.


----------



## nirVELOvana

saad said:


> ...
> Also ordered some 27mm, 56mm deep tubulars


Yeah. I got some 60mm clinchers for my "_R5_". Matte black with the black ENVE logo — _not for the poseur value as many would incorrectly jump to conclude_ — but because graphically that logo is just a funky looking shape in its own right. Sorta like how your Ritte-inspired bands are just a simple, but stylish shape — _in their own right_.

Actually, your detailing business' OCD logo would look awesome as a decal on your "_R5's_" down tube. Then just stick some ENVE decals on your 56mm tubs — and man! The perfect look :thumbsup:


----------



## saad

nirVELOvana said:


> Yeah. I got some 60mm clinchers for my "_R5_". Matte black with the black ENVE logo — _not for the poseur value as many would incorrectly jump to conclude_ — but because graphically that logo is just a funky looking shape in its own right. Sorta like how your Ritte-inspired bands are just a simple, but stylish shape — _in their own right_.
> 
> Actually, your detailing business' OCD logo would look awesome as a decal on your "_R5's_" down tube. Then just stick some ENVE decals on your 56mm tubs — and man! The perfect look :thumbsup:


Yeah I might just do that. But it wont fill the whole downtube which is what I was worried about.

which colour? Was thining charcoal grey:


----------



## nirVELOvana

ruckus said:


> Post your bike! nirVELOvana, don't think you've posted your bike yet.


Thanks for asking, ruckus. But it's still in China as I type. _Just painted today_ — so I'm told.

In any case — _I've talked it up to such a degree_, that actually seeing it would more than likely be majorly anti-climatic to anybody other than myself LOL!


----------



## ruckus

nirVELOvana said:


> Thanks for asking, ruckus. But it's still in China as I type. _Just painted today_ — so I'm told.
> 
> In any case — _I've talked it up to such a degree_, that actually seeing it would more than likely be majorly anti-climatic to anybody other than myself LOL!


What frame from Zhongwei and curious about your 4 other bikes.


----------



## nirVELOvana

saad said:


> ...
> 
> which colour? Was thining charcoal grey:
> 
> ...


This is just _my opinion_, mind: Because the purple is such a strong color, I would choose some other color that "_goes well with_" purple. You've got a few choices — of course.

Either...

...purple again (_but a less saturated tone of or lighter shade of purple_)...
...black — _of course_ — goes with any and everything...
...gray-ish or silver-ish — could be a nice touch if you do go with your polished alloy finishing kit... 
...
Or you could do what I do when I can't decide which tie to wear with which shirt — _...ask the old lady, "Which color goes best with this?"..._. Not to sound chauvinistic or anything. But chicks do naturally have a better eye for color than us dudes. Works for me


----------



## nirVELOvana

ruckus said:


> What frame from Zhongwei and curious about your 4 other bikes.


I'm getting Zhongwei's 2014 "_R5_". I already have an "_S5_" reproduction. But because my colleagues and business partners lurk through here from time to time, I prefer to keep mum about my other bikes — _somebody could ID me if I give too much away and rat me out for some post of mine they might take the wrong way_. Stranger things have been known to happen.

Sorry. But I'm paranoid that way


----------



## nirVELOvana

saad, my man. During the commercial breaks between the Giro TTTs, I did a little doodling with your pic. Hope you don't mind...










...just a little _doodle-on-a-napkin_ to maybe get your juices flowing on what you could do for your down tube — _using what you already have artwork-wise_.

It's the least I could do in exchange for pinching your pearl white idea for my 2015 "_S3_" project


----------



## ruckus

Naw

CRABON ASPLOSION


----------



## turbogrover

saad said:


> My "R5" Arrived from Feel-Bicycles the other day. Very impressed, it looks a pretty much perfect copy, and the paint job was great too, the pearl is brilliant.
> 
> The frame came in at 972g with all hardware except seatpost collar. It is a 56. Came with a bottom bracket installed too, to suit Shimano, which I had to remove. I might make a build thread, whats the best place to do that?


Your bike looks great so far! Please put some completed build pics in the "Chinese Carbon Pictures" thread. 
I'm sick of seeing "just another naked carbon bike" built with all black components, and happy to see you do something different.


----------



## nirVELOvana

ruckus said:


> A collection of Chinese manufacturing


Chalk up 10 or 12 more for our team! 

That's some awesome sleuthing you've done, ruckus, to dig those up. Thanks for finding and sharing them all.

I was convinced after building my first one that Chinese-direct frames are well designed and well made. My _*experienced-based*_ faith in them is such that I went on to build a second and a third — _plus I got two more projects planned for 2015 and 2016_. The thing that strikes me — _from my research/planning and from your vids and pix_ — is that even though there are hundreds of different models of Chinese-direct open mold/OEM and reproduction carbon frames available to choose from, people always, always, always choose the same 4 or 5 frame models. Ever notice that? Striking!

But it doesn't surprise me though. I'm convinced it is the same _Must Keep up with the Jones'_ drive that's behind _*all*_ the choices of 90% of all people — _not *just* bike choices either_.


----------



## ruckus

I like these videos since it shows small Chinese manufacturers do care about the quality of their bikes. And they do the same testing that the big brands do. Testing BB, headtube, forks, collision/crash tests, CEN standards etc.


----------



## nirVELOvana

ruckus said:


> I just find it amusing that many think small Chinese factories don't test their frames using CEN standards and assume less quality or don't care as much from a bike made in a factory that produces millions of bikes. We buy bikes from factories producing 5,000 bikes, yet bike from Giant is supposed to be better when Kunshan factory produces millions?
> 
> I like these videos since it shows small Chinese manufacturers do care about the quality of their bikes. I don't see why Feel, Flyxii, DengFu and HongFu wouldn't care like Falco obviously does.


A lot of people are so parochial-minded that their naive concept of _*the world*_ doesn't extend further than a 100 mile radius from their living room couch. 

So it never even occurs to them that their country's customs restrictions wouldn't even let Chinese bikes into their country if they couldn't prove the frames complied to at least _one of the internationally-accepted industry standards_.


----------



## pushstart

ruckus said:


> I like these videos since it shows small Chinese manufacturers do care about the quality of their bikes. And they do the same testing that the big brands do. Testing BB, headtube, forks, collision/crash tests, CEN standards etc.


I think claiming that these factories are doing "the same testing that the big brands do" needs to be substantiated. How do you know they perform the same tests? Do all big brands perform identical tests? Sure there are standard minimums, bit does no one go beyond that in their testing? I am happy to buy Chinese carbon (or titanium, etc.) products, but I do not expect the same level of quality control as "closer" brands that have more skin in the game (liability, brand loyalty/reputation, etc.).

My (Yishun FM145) frame, for example, is awesome, but there were/are small QC issues (needed to file out carbon in shifter port to get grommet to fit, bottle cage bolts not quite centered, etc.) and substandard part spec (soft derailleur hanger, e.g.). Little things that I am fine with on a $650 frame but would not expect to find on a $2000 frame.


----------



## ruckus

I'm not worried about small little things. Overall the Flyxii is good, layup looks smooth, inside the tubes is clean. But the factories if you search hard you'll find they do their tests according to CEN standards which includes crash/accident testing. These are the same standards that the brands abide by. And you can also see from pics and videos the testing equipment is pretty much the same as the machines used by brands. 

The overall set standards, yes everyone pretty much does, them, the CEN standards. If they do other different ones, probably more likely to test for marketing, promotional purposes. But the safety ones are likely CEN.


----------



## nirVELOvana

pushstart said:


> I think claiming that these factories are doing "the same testing that the big brands do" needs to be substantiated. How do you know they perform the same tests? Do all big brands perform identical tests? Sure there are standard minimums, bit does no one go beyond that in their testing? I am happy to buy Chinese carbon (or titanium, etc.) products, but I do not expect the same level of quality control as "closer" brands that have more skin in the game (liability, brand loyalty/reputation, etc.).
> 
> My (Yishun FM145) frame, for example, is awesome, but there were/are small QC issues (needed to file out carbon in shifter port to get grommet to fit, bottle cage bolts not quite centered, etc.) and substandard part spec (soft derailleur hanger, e.g.). Little things that I am fine with on a $650 frame but would not expect to find on a $2000 frame.


Aren't you confusing one thing that's subjective (_quality_) with something that is objective/quantifiable/testable (_safety_)? Apples and oranges, my friend. Apples and oranges 



Wikipedia said:


> ...
> *Standards*
> A number of formal and *industry standards* exist for bicycle components to help make spare parts exchangeable and to maintain a *minimum product safety*.
> 
> The International Organization for Standardization (ISO) has a special technical committee for cycles, TC149, that has the following scope: "Standardization in the field of cycles, their components and accessories with particular reference to terminology, *testing* methods and requirements for performance and *safety*, and interchangeability."
> ...
> more


To *my* understanding of the two, _quality_ is orthogonal to _safety_. By that, I mean: paying $6000 for a "_high-quality_" frame is no guarantee that it is impervious to structural failure. How do I know that?. Five minutes browsing through _these pages_, and you'll come to know everything I know on the subject. 

I don't know about any other frame sellers. But the ones I've dealt with have been vetted by _an independent German third-party verification agent_:


(_snipped from this downloadable verification report_)



TÜV Rheinland said:


> ...
> TÜV Rheinland is a global provider of technical, *safety*, and certification services...
> ...
> ...founded in 1872 and has its headquarters in Cologne, Germany...
> ...
> ...it employs more than 16,000 people in 500 locations in 65 countries...
> ...
> ...1989 The first office in Mainland China is established in Shanghai...
> ...
> more


_A third-party assessment — by a *German* company, no less —_ is plenty *good enough* for me 

I happen to share the opinion of a post I recall seeing in another forum somewhere. I'll paraphrase it here as — "_You're statistically more likely to be murdered by your spouse than you are to have a Chinese-direct frame "Asplode" underneath you!_"

In other words: _Don't sweat the small stuff — you've got more realistic things you *should* be scared of_


----------



## pushstart

nirVELOvana said:


> Aren't you confusing one thing that's subjective (_quality_) with something that is objective/quantifiable/testable (_safety_)? Apples and oranges, my friend. Apples and oranges


I disagree. Build quality is not subjective. And I would conjecture (since that all any of us are doing on this topic) that lack of attention to detail is indicative of a general economy of cutting corners to keep prices low. And in many cases it is directly related -- e.g. stem clamp or bar diameters under spec could have catastrophic safety implications.

Again, I have no problem with this, just think people should be careful about making claims that the safety testing of these "no-name" factories is going to be the same as name-brand companies. This makes a lot of assumptions and a lot more documentation is needed on both sides of the equation to substantiate a claim like that.


----------



## nirVELOvana

pushstart said:


> I disagree. Build quality is not subjective...


I can respect your disagreement. I've said it before and I'll say it again: _I'm always up for learning something I don't know_. That's why I'm dying to hear your explanation for how you *objectively measure* _quality_.

If something isn't *scientifically quantifiable*, it's subjective by definition — _in *my* book_


----------



## pushstart

nirVELOvana said:


> I can respect your disagreement. I've said it before and I'll say it again: _I'm always up for learning something I don't know_. That's why I'm dying to hear your explanation for how you *objectively measure* _quality_.
> 
> If something isn't *scientifically quantifiable*, it's subjective by definition — _in *my* book_


Um, can you explain how my examples were subjective? If a grommet doesn't fit in the hole, is that subjective? If the bottle cage threads don't line up with the drilled holes is that subjective? If a part doesn't conform to size specifications, is that subjective? These are all things you can measure with rulers ... or does that somehow not count as "scientifically quantifiable" to you?

This is what one means by quality control, FYI. Not how nicely the paint colors complement each other. Anyone that has worked in any field with QC can tell you this has nothing to do with subjectivity.


----------



## nirVELOvana

pushstart said:


> Um..
> 
> 
> Judge Judith Sheindlin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 'UM' IS NOT AN ANSWER!!!
Click to expand...

Besides — I asked you first


----------



## ruckus

pushstart said:


> Again, I have no problem with this, just think people should be careful about making claims that the safety testing of these "no-name" factories is going to be the same as name-brand companies. This makes a lot of assumptions and a lot more documentation is needed on both sides of the equation to substantiate a claim like that.


CEN standards is what the cycling industry use since CEN is officially recoginzed by the EU as the European standards body. Anyone who wants to sell bikes in EU has to pass CEN standards. EFBe is what nirVELOvana was talking about. And there is a third. 

Doesn't matter where the bike is made, what material used, or type of bike, they all undergo the same tests according to the three major standards. 

Just go on Youtube and search Bicycle Frame Testing. You'll see no one is doing tests that their competitors aren't, because the tests are standardized. Maybe they use more sophisticated hydraulics rather than weights, it's the same test.


----------



## nirVELOvana

ruckus said:


> CEN standards is what the cycling industry use since CEN is officially recoginzed by the EU as the European standards body. Anyone who wants to sell bikes in EU has to pass CEN standards. EFBe is what nirVELOvana was talking about. And there is a third.
> 
> Doesn't matter where the bike is made, what material used, or type of bike, they all undergo the same tests according to the three major standards.
> 
> Just go on Youtube and search Bicycle Frame Testing. You'll see no one is doing tests that their competitors aren't, because the tests are standardized. Maybe they use more sophisticated hydraulics rather than weights, it's the same test.
> ...


Yup. You've nailed it ruckus! 

And nowhere in any of _those standards_, does it prescribe the specific physical _quality_ of the test harness. *Meaning*: The test equipment could have been made in the middle ages and smell like Kimchi and be held together with chewing gum (_'cause maybe one of the bolts is not quite centered_ ). Just as long as the test follows the prescribed "_*method*_", who cares about anything else?

Take _this German one_ for example...



DIN EN 14781 (2006): Racing bicycles - Safety requirements and test methods said:


> ...
> *4.8.4 Frame - fatigue test with pedalling forces*
> 
> *4.8.4.1 General*
> 
> In tests on suspension frames with pivoted joints, adjust the spring, air pressure or damper to provide maximum resistance, or, for a pneumatic damper in which the air-pressure cannot be adjusted, replace the suspension unit with a rigid link, ensuring that its ends fixings and lateral rigidity accurately simulate those of the original unit. For suspension frames in which the chain stays do not have pivots but rely on flexing, ensure that any dampers are set to provide the minimum resistance in order to ensure adequate testing of the frame.
> 
> *4.8.4.2 Requirement*
> 
> When tested by the method described in 4.8.4.3, there shall be no visible cracks or fractures in the frame, and there shall be no separation of any parts of any suspension system.
> 
> For carbon-fibre frames, the peak deflections during the test at the points where the test forces are applied shall not increase by more than 20 % of the initial values.
> 
> *4.8.4.3 Test method*
> 
> Use a new frame/fork assembly fitted with standard head-tube bearings for the test. The front fork may be replaced by a dummy fork of the same length and at least the same stiffness as the original fork.
> 
> NOTE If a genuine fork is used, failures of the fork are possible, therefore, it is recommended that for convenience, a dummy fork stiffer and stronger than the genuine fork is used.
> 
> Where a frame is convertible for male and female riders by removal of a bar, test it with the bar removed.
> 
> Mount the frame assembly on a base as shown in Figure 27 with the fork or dummy fork secured by its axle to a rigid mount of height Rw (the radius of the wheel/tyre assembly ± 30 mm), and with the hub free to swivel on the axle. Secure the rear drop-outs by means of the axle to a stiff, vertical link of the same height as that of the front rigid mount, the upper connection of the link being free to swivel about the axis of the axle but providing rigidity in a lateral plane, and the lower end of the link being fitted with a ball-joint.
> 
> Fit a crank and a chain-wheel (or a crank and a chain-wheel set) with a chain assembly or, preferably, a strong, stiff adaptor assembly to the bottom-bracket as shown in Figure 27 and described in a) or b) below.
> 
> a) If a crank/chain-wheel assembly is used, incline both cranks forwards and downwards at an angle of 450 (accurate to ± 0,5°) to the horizontal and secure the front end of the chain to the middle chain-wheel of three, the smaller chain-wheel of two, or the only chain wheel. Attach the rear end of the chain to the rear axle and perpendicular to the axis of the axle.
> 
> b) If an adaptor assembly is used (as shown in Figure 27), ensure that the assembly is free to swivel about the axis of the bottom-bracket and that both replacements arms are 175 mm long (L) and that they are both inclined forwards and downwards at an angle of 45° (accurate to ± 0,5°) to the horizontal. Secure the position of the crank replacement arms by a vertical arm (which replaces the chain-wheel) and a tie rod which has balljoints at both ends and which is attached to the rear axle perpendicular to the axis of the rear axle. The length of the vertical arm (Rc) shall be 75 mm, and the axis of the tie-rod shall be parallel to and 50 mm from the vertical plane through the centre-line of the frame.
> 
> Subject each pedal spindle (or equivalent adaptor component) to a repeated downward force, of 1 100 N at a position of 150 mm from the centre-line of the frame in a vertical, transverse plane and inclined at 7,50 (accurate to within ± 0,5°) to the fore/aft plane of the frame as shown in Figure 27. During application of these test forces, ensure that the force on a "pedal-spindle" falls to 5 % or less of the peak force before commencing application of the test force to the other "pedal spindle".
> 
> Apply the test forces for 100 000 test cycles where one test cycle consists of the application and removal of the two test forces.
> ...
> _Download_


If anybody can show me anywhere in _this here (or any other) standards document_ where it says anything like, "_These test methods can only be performed on '*high-quality*' frames retailing above USD$*N* amount_, then — _I swear to God_ — I will PayPal them _USD$*N*_ to their email address right there and then


----------



## pushstart

No one (at least not me) is suggesting that these frames are not meeting the EN/CEN standards. They claim that they pass the standards; I'll take their word for it (and I'm sure they have documentation to prove it). No, the point I take issue with is the claim that because something passes the same standards that their safety tests are the same. This sounds like a faulty conclusion and indeed a couple searches in Google illustrate that it is wrong. For example:

1) Take a look at Cervelo's recall page: Recalls - Cervélo . Here is a quote in particular: "Though the fork passes US and international standards, this particular problem was not uncovered during those standard tests and the fork only showed this weakness in the field, typically after being damaged. After much work, we did develop a new test protocol that was able to replicate the same failure mode as seen in the field. " So obviously Cervelo applies at least one test (presumably there are others) that is not required by the standard.

2) As far as I know the standard makes no requirements that frames be tested to the point of failure to see how they fail (or when they fail). Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't read the whole thing. And yet [some] factories do test their frames to failure. E.g. Santa Cruz Bicycles - Test Lab - Pinkbike  So that is a safety test that is not required by the standard. Do all factories do this? Maybe, but probably not, and you can't assume they do it because they happen to pass a particular standard.

Probably worth a read: Are All Carbon Bikes Created Equal? | CyclingTips

Again, I'm not claiming that these frames are inferior, I'm merely suggesting that the claim that they have undergone the same safety tests as other frames is wrong. It seems clear from looking at it even a little bit that there is little suggestion that even the big name brands are performing all the same tests. Presumably all of them have founds issues with the standard tests -- as Cervelo did -- and supplement with their own safety tests. They have to protect themselves from litigation in ways that I would suggest Flybike does not.


----------



## nirVELOvana

pushstart said:


> ...the point I take issue with is the claim that because something passes the same standards that *their safety tests are the same*...
> ...
> ...the claim that they have undergone *the same safety tests* as other frames is wrong...


Speaking of Google — Imagine them as a fledgling startup. Do you think they did *the same software tests* as Microsoft? Do you imagine that Samsung does _*the same electronics or telecoms tests*_ as Apple? 

Is there some prerequisite that a company can't compete in the global economy unless they ape by rote the exact same suite of tests as every single one of their competitors? I'm assuming you know what the word "_proprietary_" means— in the context of commercial advantage, that is. Right?



pushstart said:


> ...They have to protect themselves from litigation in ways that I would suggest Flybike does not.


From that statement, it is clear that you've made the same mistake as tons of others who share a parochial understanding of global markets: _You naively project your Western context of sue-happy business practices onto a culture in which those concepts and practices have no context_. Again — Apples and oranges, my friend. Apples and oranges 

From my own experience I _suggest_ that the Flybikes of the world do business in the context of striving to do their jobs as professionally as honorably as expertly as they can — *not out of fear of being sued* — but out of a centuries-old work ethic and pride in their craftsmanship.


----------



## SL06

*HF-FM069 carbon frame and Shimano Ultegra 11V*

Hi,
I am building a bike for a friend. I have assemble everything but I ran in a unexpected problem. While adjusting the front derailleur height, I discover that it touch the carbon frame before I could set it to the require 1 -3 mm clearance to the big chainring. 

I have minimise the problem by putting some washer behind the derailleur holder and by trimming the spring excess flush with the derailleur. But I still need to go 1 -2 mm lower. I am thinking to modify the derailleur holding plate and move everything 2 mm backward. 

I am curious to know if anyone ran in the same problem with this frame and how it was solved. The crankset is a 52-36 and the problem is certainly worse with a 50-34.

Any suggestion or comments would be appreciate. I have also wrote the Hong-Fu to get their advise.

The derailleur is a Shjmano FD-6800.


----------



## ruckus

pushstart said:


> No one (at least not me) is suggesting that these frames are not meeting the EN/CEN standards. They claim that they pass the standards; I'll take their word for it (and I'm sure they have documentation to prove it). No, the point I take issue with is the claim that because something passes the same standards that their safety tests are the same.


This is where you have to use your own discretion and your own analysis of what you are buying. Cervelo has recalls since their priority is aero and lightweight. They only began doing stress tests on steerer because they skimped on safety for aero and lightweight, and then cyclists were having accidents. I've never seen any marketing from Cervelo that their bikes are safer than their competitors or compared to other models, but more aero and lighter.

Cervelo does a whole lot of publicity to promote their knowledge of carbon even though they don't tell you anything that other brands haven't said or you can easily find out. It's just cover your ass policy here. I do not think Cervelo knows as much about carbon and testing than Giant or Merida or know more than their other competitors like Scott/Cannondale/Specialized.

So it's up to the buyer to weigh the risks. I personally would prefer a heavier bike using stronger tube shapes and design than a lightweight aero bike. And read the feedback. I haven't read of any Chinese direct bikes failing from manufacture defect other than small things like carbon seatpost clamp cracking and occasionally quality issue. But that's to be expected, there are always duds no matter the product and brand.

Example: I'd rather buy a Scott CR1 than Scott Addict that claims to be 2nd lightest bike using T1000 (using less) carbon.


----------



## ruckus

pushstart said:


> And yet [some] factories do test their frames to failure. E.g. Santa Cruz Bicycles - Test Lab - Pinkbike


I like that video too. But that's a safety test that's common. It was testing the crash impact test, where you drop weights. I know for example CEN testing is 200 lbs on carbon forks, so actually more than what Santa Cruz was dropping.

Their other test was useless since that doesn't test the fatigue of the bike over time, which is what you want. The other test was just seeing at what point does the frame get crushed. They even said this was the first time they did that to a Nomad carbon. If you were in an accident involving 2000 lbs of force, your bike isn't going to matter, you're going to the hospital. So it's a useless test.

I can't think of a situation where a bike would have head on collision at the headtube as Santa Cruz was abusing their bike. Point of contact on the bike would be wheels and then fork.

If lateral? As long as the bike can withstand damage from falling and crashing fine. But if you get high impact crash laterally? Nevermind the bike, your body is going to get crushed and more than likely die. Collapsed lung. Your liver and spleen are on your lateral side, they are solid organs and you'll bleed out quick. Rib puncturing heart and lungs, again, unless you get into the operating room in under 30 minutes, you're probably dead.

And do you really believe Santa Cruz manufactures their carbon bikes better than the rest? They have some secret method? 

Carbon theoretically has nearly infinite fatigue life. Unlike metals, which over time, fatigue and then fail. If the carbon bike can withstand twice the amount of stress you can put the frame through, and crashes with a 200 lb cyclist, then they should be able to do so infinitely as long as the bonding remains strong (seatstay, chainstay are usually bonded).


----------



## ruckus

Good luck with Hong-Fu, there warranty seem to be as good as any brand. Unless it's manufacturing defect you're screwed no matter the brand. Hopefully it's a defect and they will send a replacement/refund.

I have Tiagra 4600 derailleur and different frame so not the same. But maybe the derailleur when on the small chainring needs to be adjusted and then the spring part won't touch the frame? Shimano recommends the outside ring is .5 mm away from the small ring when you're on the largest rear cog.

Good luck! That's all I can think of, the derailleur needs to be adjust more or it's a manufacture defect since I would hope Hong-Fu uses designs that are compatible with Shimano FD.


----------



## pushstart

So the specifics of those examples were completely irrelevant to the point. I'm not sure how that wasn't clear  Anyway, I think the point that safety tests are not "the same" is sufficiently belabored (and apparently you both implicitly agree now) so this needs no further discussion and we can get back to better topics like build pics!


----------



## SL06

ruckus said:


> Good luck with Hong-Fu, there warranty seem to be as good as any brand. Unless it's manufacturing defect you're screwed no matter the brand. Hopefully it's a defect and they will send a replacement/refund.
> 
> I have Tiagra 4600 derailleur and different frame so not the same. But maybe the derailleur when on the small chainring needs to be adjusted and then the spring part won't touch the frame? Shimano recommends the outside ring is .5 mm away from the small ring when you're on the largest rear cog.
> 
> Good luck! That's all I can think of, the derailleur needs to be adjust more or it's a manufacture defect since I would hope Hong-Fu uses designs that are compatible with Shimano FD.


Thanks for the suggestion. Forget to mention that is a FD-6800 derailleur.

I have set the adjustment screw on the derailleur correctly. The part touching the frame move when you adjust the inner limit. Its set to barely touching the chain. I have also check the crankset chainline. I have tough that maybe there was a spacer missing in the bottom bracket, but no.


----------



## nirVELOvana

pushstart said:


> So the specifics of those examples were completely irrelevant to the point. I'm not sure how that wasn't clear  Anyway, I think the point that safety tests are not "the same" is sufficiently belabored (and apparently you both implicitly agree now) so this needs no further discussion and we can get back to better topics like build pics!


Sigh! You're still not clear? OK. I will try to break it down one last time...

Saying that the Chinese-direct frame companies do "*the same industry standards tests*" as their competitors, means that the *results* of the tests are arrived at by the testing companies in question having all followed *the same methodology prescribed by the standards*.

That is *not* the same thing as saying the Chinese-direct companies "*use the same test equipment*" — or that the Chinese-direct companies adopt _*the same proprietary, in-house-developed, company-specific, nonstandard, additional tests*_ as the Cervelos of the world. Nobody — at least not I — ever said nor implied that. That's just something you incorrectly read into what _*was*_ said — for reasons of your own.

If the difference still isn't clear to you, then either you don't *want* to see the difference or you just suffer from what Judge Judy implies when she knocks her knuckles on her hardwood podium — as she gives Officer Petri Hawkins-Byrd a knowing wink 

Either way — your case is dismissed.



Judge Judith Sheindlin said:


> "Byrd? Get him outta here!!!"


:wink:


----------



## Scope

saad said:


> Defnitely would be. I've briefly ridden an R3, which is what inspired me to get this.
> 
> Also, I will post some more pics soon but its ridiculous - the covers for the BB for running electronic, and the the cable guide, both have Cervelo written on them, and have serial numbers!
> 
> They told be the 51 frame was 780 grams, and that a 56 was 880g. So I suppose with paint, derailleur hanger, bolts, trimmings, 972g is pretty damn close!
> 
> Also ordered some 27mm, 56mm deep tubulars


I'm ready to pull the trigger on one of these frames. Let me know how you build goes, if there is anything I should watch out for.

Love the paint scheme, I have my rough colours ready to go.


----------



## Bridgey

I'm looking at buying a chinese direct TT frame. I want the fastest UCI legal (based on proportions 1 is to 3 tubing width to size) frame available. But of course want quality. Can anyone recommend something for me.
Thanks in advance


----------



## nirVELOvana

*Woke up this morning with a song in my heart...*

...Sending out an *S.O.S.*..



bicycleretailer.com said:


> *U.S. Suppliers Hope to Impact CEN standard*
> ...
> Beyond the U.S. market, CEN standards impact bicycle makers worldwide. *China defers to CEN as its standard* and the global International Standards Organization (ISO) is using CEN standards as it creates international bike standards.
> ...
> more


...Sending out an *S.O.S.*..(_as in, "*S*ame *O*l' *S*tandard_")...

...I hope that someone *gets* my...Message In A Bottle...Ye-ah!

:wink:


----------



## pushstart

nirVELOvana said:


> Saying that the Chinese-direct frame companies do "*the same industry standards tests*" as their competitors, means that the *results* of the tests are arrived at by the testing companies in question having all followed *the same methodology prescribed by the standards*.


Well, not sure who you're quoting there, since that isn't what you said. Let me go ahead and remind you:



ruckus said:


> And they do the same testing that the big brands do. Testing BB, headtube, forks, collision/crash tests, CEN standards etc.


So, I think we all agree this isn't actually true, right? They might be testing to the same certifications, but there are obviously numerous examples that can be found that show that manufacturers do perform tests outside of the spectrum of those required by the industry standards. So even if you ignore any differences in methodology, it is not in fact "the same testing" at all.

In any event, I'm not going to engage in any more "discussion" on this topic, I promise. Repeating the same point ad nauseam just makes me feel embarrassed.


----------



## nirVELOvana

pushstart said:


> ...makes me feel embarrassed.


And so you should be, my friend. And so you should be.

:wink:


----------



## saad

Build Update.

Pardon the spacers, will need to be cut properly later, this was just a quickie:




























And the weights as they stand now:

View attachment 295389


----------



## VQuick

Looks beautiful, saad! So you said that's an R5 frame from Feel--do they manufacture the Cervelo R5 frame too? How close are they in design? It sure looks great, and the paint does too. How much did they charge for the paint? Were you happy with the whole frame-buying experience?

If that has a BBright, does it take a GXP crankset with a spacer on the drive side?

One more question--you mentioned that the fork might not fit a 25 mm wide rim--is it actually that narrow? I just got some Ardennes+ wheels that are 25 mm.


----------



## saad

VQuick said:


> Looks beautiful, saad! So you said that's an R5 frame from Feel--do they manufacture the Cervelo R5 frame too? How close are they in design? It sure looks great, and the paint does too. How much did they charge for the paint? Were you happy with the whole frame-buying experience?
> 
> If that has a BBright, does it take a GXP crankset with a spacer on the drive side?
> 
> One more question--you mentioned that the fork might not fit a 25 mm wide rim--is it actually that narrow? I just got some Ardennes+ wheels that are 25 mm.


Hey mate

I emailed cervelo, and they said their new R3 and R5s all fit 27mm tyres, the problem was with the older bikes.

I dont think Feel make the genuine Cervelo R5, another factory (I forgot the name) does, and they also do a few other brands.

You can run GXP on a BBRight Frame no problems. They include a Shimano Compatible BB, and the adapter to run GXP on non drive side, as SRAM tapers to 22mm spindle on non-drive side. If thats what you wanted though, I would run the bottom bracket from Rotor. However, Sram Force 22 cranks are BBRight compatible, using a PF30 bottom bracket, so thats the best way to go. I have not used locktite to press the PF30 BB in, I'll see how I go with creaks, and if they appear, I will, as per instructions from bbright.net.

From what I can tell, the Feel and the genuine Cervelo R5 are pretty much the same. The Feel plastic cable guide even has the cervelo logo on it! 

I think the paint was about 50USD. 

Very happy, they were helpful, quick, and honest, and always available on Skype - for instance I just spoke to them asking for torque settings. They sent me testing videos and reports on the frame too when I asked before purchasing, and sent me pictures of their frame. They also sent me pictures of my bike after paint. I only paid a 20% deposit initially, and paid the rest after I saw the pics. It was delivered to Australia in less than a week, and was packaged very thoroughly.


----------



## nirVELOvana

Uh-oh! Sounds like you've gone and done it now saad my man. 

So how does it feel to be the undisputed originator of the "_Pearl White Is The New Matte Black_" meme? 

The old adage — _Imitation is the best flattery_ — *is* true though. Lookin' good! :thumbsup:

Coincidentally, I'm celebrating having received from my sales gal today the first-pass paint job preview pix of my "_R5_". WOO-HOO!

I'm still shy about posting pix of my "_R5_" though. But in lieu of sharing pix I _will_ try to share with folks a sense of my excitement by sharing the celebratory vibe I'm currently in, with _one of my fave old Prince chunes_. 

I haven't been able to get _this song_ out of my head since the second I first looked at my "_R5's_ preview pix a few hours ago:



The Artist Formerly Known as 'The Artist Formerly Known as Prince' said:


> *Private Joy*
> 
> My little secret, my private joy
> I could never let another play with my toy
> My little angel from heaven above
> Oh, oh oh oh oh I think I'm falling in love
> And I ain't gonna tell nobody nobody 'bout my little pretty toy
> All the other kids would love to love you but you're my little private joy
> My private joy -- you're my private joy
> Private joy -- such a pretty toy
> Joy, you are my private joy
> 
> You're my little lover, Orgasmatron
> Only I know, only I know, baby, what turns u on
> You're my little secret neon light
> Girl I wanna turn it on turn it on turn it on every night
> 
> Ain't gonna tell nobody nobody 'bout my little pretty toy
> All the other kids would love to love u but you're my little private joy
> My private joy -- you're my private joy
> Private joy -- such a pretty toy
> Joy -- oh my private joy
> 
> Shoot me up baby, let's take a trip
> I can't get enough can't get enough of your private private joy joy
> Joy -- such a such a pretty toy
> Joy -- you are my private joy
> Joy -- shoot me up baby, let's take a trip
> Joy -- can't get enough of your private
> Joy -- come on honey baby get up, get up
> 
> I strangled Valentino
> (He strangled Valentino)
> Been mine ever since
> (Been his ever since)
> If anybody asks you
> (If anybody asks you)
> You belong to Prince
> (You belong to Prince)
> Come on baby
> Get up
> Get up
> Get up
> Get up


----------



## VQuick

saad said:


> Hey mate
> ...


Thanks for the info! So I think what you're telling me is you actually have a SRAM Force 22 BB30 crankset which you are using with a PF30 BB....or wait, maybe the axle spindle wouldn't be long enough if you had the BB30 crankset. I'm confused if so, because the GXP has a 24 mm diameter spindle which I assume wouldn't work with a PF30 BB (30 mm diameter design). All these standards can get pretty confusing. Why do you say the PF30 is the best option?

Looking forward to seeing more pics and hearing your initial ride impressions!


----------



## asianarnold1

*just do it*

if you're on the fence about getting a custom job, just do it. 

rode it for my maiden ride of 30mi with no issues. definitely fast. a great project build for me at minimal cost (i got wife+3kids). i'll upgrade parts as $$ comes. no worries. 

safe riding!


----------



## 00Garza

*Nice!*



asianarnold1 said:


> if you're on the fence about getting a custom job, just do it.


Definitely one of the more unique paint jobs I've seen on chinese carbon. Looks pretty much flawless from what I can see in those pics. I regret not getting a custom paint job on mine. If and when I do a second build, I'll go all out on it.


----------



## saad

VQuick said:


> Thanks for the info! So I think what you're telling me is you actually have a SRAM Force 22 BB30 crankset which you are using with a PF30 BB....or wait, maybe the axle spindle wouldn't be long enough if you had the BB30 crankset. I'm confused if so, because the GXP has a 24 mm diameter spindle which I assume wouldn't work with a PF30 BB (30 mm diameter design). All these standards can get pretty confusing. Why do you say the PF30 is the best option?
> 
> Looking forward to seeing more pics and hearing your initial ride impressions!


Use a BB30 crankset (Force 22 only, the others wont work) with a PF30 bottom bracket and you're sweet. Better than GXP as BB30 is lighter and stiffer.


----------



## asianarnold1

00Garza said:


> Definitely one of the more unique paint jobs I've seen on chinese carbon. Looks pretty much flawless from what I can see in those pics. I regret not getting a custom paint job on mine. If and when I do a second build, I'll go all out on it.


thanks for the comment! i had time on my hands so no hurry. so i emailed and skype back and forth and back a bunch of times with corrections. took 3-4weeks for design, then it took 35days to produce, but once packaged, it arrived at my CA doorstep in 4days. much kudos to Dengfu.


----------



## nirVELOvana

asianarnold1 said:


> ...i had time on my hands so no hurry. so i emailed and skype back and forth and back a bunch of times with corrections. took 3-4weeks for design, then it took 35days to produce...


Yup. You bring up a good point, asianarnold1. You definitely have to be the patient type if you want any kind of custom design that is not bog-standard.

Most people can only deal with immediate gratification though. They simply can't bear to wait for the custom design process to takes its course. They gotta have their frame right now!

_Interesting piece of neuroscience trivia_: I read somewhere once that patience — _or the lack of it, as the case may be_ — has something to do with the size of the frontal lobe.


----------



## asianarnold1

nirVELOvana said:


> _Interesting piece of neuroscience trivia_: I read somewhere once that patience — _or the lack of it, as the case may be_ — has something to do with the size of the frontal lobe.


haha!!


----------



## VQuick

saad said:


> Use a BB30 crankset (Force 22 only, the others wont work) with a PF30 bottom bracket and you're sweet. Better than GXP as BB30 is lighter and stiffer.


Yeah, I definitely think BB30/PF30 is better. Just thought that the BB30 standard was designed to work with a 68 mm BB shell width, whereas BBright is wider. After a quick search, it appears that Force 22 has a longer spindle but still calls itself BB30. So you'd have to use a spacer with a BB30 frame. Installing Force 22 crankset in 2014 R3 frame -


----------



## saad

VQuick said:


> Yeah, I definitely think BB30/PF30 is better. Just thought that the BB30 standard was designed to work with a 68 mm BB shell width, whereas BBright is wider. After a quick search, it appears that Force 22 has a longer spindle but still calls itself BB30. So you'd have to use a spacer with a BB30 frame. Installing Force 22 crankset in 2014 R3 frame -


Exactly. The force 22 crankset comes with the required spacer.

The other option is to use a GXP or shimano crank, with the correct Rotor or similar bottom bracket


----------



## bugly64

I stopped by a Performance Bike shop in Sacramento a few days ago and while I was speaking to the sales associate I mentioned I had a Chinese carbon frame and he said I should be careful. I told him that I had more than 3,000 miles on my frame without incident.


----------



## VQuick

Nice! Yeah, there will always be a bias against cheap anything, partly because people don't want to believe you may have a frame that is as good but cost much less.

Saad, your bike is looking so great. Personally I do like black components, but I think the silver metal with the pearl white is great on your bike.

Asianarnold, the custom work on your bike is impressive.


----------



## clenbutador

Hey guys, new to the site. So I had a professor who bought a Dengfu and I rode it and I was really impressed with the build quality and have watched many YouTube videos and have decided to take the plunge.

Looking at the Flyxii 322 in Matte and the Velobuild R-022.

I like the look of the Specialized Tarmac S Works and those appear to be the closest. 

I have some questions:
Does anyone know of other places than Velobuild.com and Flyxii to make a purchase?

I plan on building a Shimano 9000 Dura Ace 11 speed and would like some help and advice on BB30 or BSA English/Italian as I don't understand Shimanos new system.

A great thread, hope some of you can help.<mytubeelement id="myTubeRelayElementToTab" event="relayPrefs" data="{"loadBundle":true}"></mytubeelement>


----------



## ruckus

bugly64 said:


> I stopped by a Performance Bike shop in Sacramento a few days ago and while I was speaking to the sales associate I mentioned I had a Chinese carbon frame and he said I should be careful. I told him that I had more than 3,000 miles on my frame without incident.


Yeah happened to me too, but he just had a look of sadness. I guess he knows lot of people are ordering bikes online. He no longer sells Ridley since PerformanceBike became an online retailer for them. Now he's stuck with ugly Roubaix and CAAD 10 that most people can't ride (too racey) or the Synapse Carbon, that most can't afford, min 1500 and upwards of 5000 (SRAM Red).


----------



## clenbutador

clenbutador said:


> Hey guys, new to the site. So I had a professor who bought a Dengfu and I rode it and I was really impressed with the build quality and have watched many YouTube videos and have decided to take the plunge.
> 
> Looking at the Flyxii 322 in Matte and the Velobuild R-022.
> 
> I like the look of the Specialized Tarmac S Works and those appear to be the closest.
> 
> I have some questions:
> Does anyone know of other places than Velobuild.com and Flyxii to make a purchase?
> 
> I plan on building a Shimano 9000 Dura Ace 11 speed and would like some help and advice on BB30 or BSA English/Italian as I don't understand Shimanos new system.
> 
> A great thread, hope some of you can help.<mytubeelement id="myTubeRelayElementToTab" event="relayPrefs" data="{"loadBundle":true}"></mytubeelement>


I've found them from a seller on ebay for $440 for a 54cm, but I'm still pretty concerned about the fit with the 11 speed and crank/BB setup.

I'd also like to get it painted like this Contadors 2011 Giro d'Italia Saxo team bike and I doubt eBay sellers have that option. 









Any advice on the components and details for painting and such would be greatly appreciated!<mytubeelement id="myTubeRelayElementToPage" event="preferencesUpdated" data="{"bundle":{"label_delimitor":":","percentage":"%","smart_buffer":"Smart Buffer","start_playing_when_buffered":"Start playing when buffered","sound":"Sound","desktop_notification":"Desktop Notification","continuation_on_next_line":"-","loop":"Loop","only_notify":"Only Notify","estimated_time":"Estimated Time","global_preferences":"Global Preferences","no_notification_supported_on_your_browser":"No notification style supported on your browser version","video_buffered":"Video Buffered","buffered":"Buffered","hyphen":"-","buffered_message":"The video has been buffered as requested and is ready to play.","not_supported":"Not Supported","on":"On","off":"Off","click_to_enable_for_this_site":"Click to enable for this site","desktop_notification_denied":"You have denied permission for desktop notification for this site","notification_status_delimitor":";","error":"Error","adblock_interferance_message":"Adblock (or similar extension) is known to interfere with SmartVideo. Please add this url to adblock whitelist.","calculating":"Calculating","waiting":"Waiting","will_start_buffering_when_initialized":"Will start buffering when initialized","will_start_playing_when_initialized":"Will start playing when initialized","completed":"Completed","buffering_stalled":"Buffering is stalled. Will stop.","stopped":"Stopped","hr":"Hr","min":"Min","sec":"Sec","any_moment":"Any Moment","popup_donate_to":"Donate to"},"prefs":{"desktopNotification":true,"soundNotification":true,"logLevel":0,"enable":true,"loop":false,"hidePopup":false,"autoPlay":false,"autoBuffer":false,"autoPlayOnBuffer":false,"autoPlayOnBufferPercentage":42,"autoPlayOnSmartBuffer":true,"quality":"default","fshd":false,"onlyNotification":false,"enableFullScreen":true,"saveBandwidth":false,"hideAnnotations":false,"turnOffPagedBuffering":false}}"></mytubeelement>


----------



## nirVELOvana

VQuick said:


> ...there will always be a bias against cheap anything, partly because people don't want to believe you may have a frame that is as good but cost much less...


You noticed that too, huh?

And the other part of it is — people can't help but hypnotize themselves into thinking that just because they fork over more money than the next guy for... 

..._Italian-branded (but Asian-made) stuff_...
...or _American-incorporated (but also Asian-manufactured) stuff_...
...or _lightweight boutique components built in REM-land_...
...or _brands with Appalachian roots — once ridden by their fallen heroes_...
...or any of _the other hypnosis-inducing popular brands_...
...that somehow that makes them immune to the cold hard laws of physics — _and cut-throat business ethics_ — neither of which discriminates based on price-point.

No disrespect to any of the OPs of those posts — by the way. I'm just sayin'...


----------



## VQuick

clenbutador said:


> I've found them from a seller on ebay for $440 for a 54cm, but I'm still pretty concerned about the fit with the 11 speed and crank/BB setup.


I don't know of any reason that 11-speed wouldn't work with any modern frame, but you have to make sure the rear wheel you use has a hub that is 11-speed compatible.

If you want to use a Dura-Ace crank, you can't use BB30 (there may be some adapter or way to make it work but I'm not aware of it). You could, however, use a SRAM Force or Red BB30 11-speed crank and use Dura-Ace for the rest of the drivetrain. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## clenbutador

VQuick said:


> I don't know of any reason that 11-speed wouldn't work with any modern frame, but you have to make sure the rear wheel you use has a hub that is 11-speed compatible.
> 
> If you want to use a Dura-Ace crank, you can't use BB30 (there may be some adapter or way to make it work but I'm not aware of it). You could, however, use a SRAM Force or Red BB30 11-speed crank and use Dura-Ace for the rest of the drivetrain. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


I didn't think 11 speed would be an issue for the frame, but the crank setup is something I don't entirely understand especially the BSA vs. BB30 vs. Shimano threading or whatever.

The hub on the Flyxii wheel set says it works with Shimano 11, so I'm mostly worried about which crank setup to use for the Dura Ace mechanical.


----------



## MMsRepBike

clenbutador said:


> I didn't think 11 speed would be an issue for the frame, but the crank setup is something I don't entirely understand especially the BSA vs. BB30 vs. Shimano threading or whatever.
> 
> The hub on the Flyxii wheel set says it works with Shimano 11, so I'm mostly worried about which crank setup to use for the Dura Ace mechanical.


For Dura-Ace or any Shimano setup you want a BSA frame. 
It's most likely going to be english threaded so get the english threaded Dura Ace bottom bracket. That's what I have on my Flyxii bike.


----------



## asianarnold1

VQuick said:


> Nice! Yeah, there will always be a bias against cheap anything, partly because people don't want to believe you may have a frame that is as good but cost much less.
> 
> Saad, your bike is looking so great. Personally I do like black components, but I think the silver metal with the pearl white is great on your bike.
> 
> Asianarnold, the custom work on your bike is impressive.


thanks for the compliment. i've put in 60mi(35mi solo, 25mi fast group) on it so far and it's solid. i have one slight creak on the seatpost collar junction, i'll have to put more carbon paste and maybe cut the extra post inside the downtube. Otherwise it's quiet.


----------



## asianarnold1

bugly64 said:


> I stopped by a Performance Bike shop in Sacramento a few days ago and while I was speaking to the sales associate I mentioned I had a Chinese carbon frame and he said I should be careful. I told him that I had more than 3,000 miles on my frame without incident.


i live in Sacramento (N.Natomas) and ride the River Rides all the time. PM me and come check out my Blue Dragon fm098.


----------



## saad

clenbutador said:


> I didn't think 11 speed would be an issue for the frame, but the crank setup is something I don't entirely understand especially the BSA vs. BB30 vs. Shimano threading or whatever.
> 
> The hub on the Flyxii wheel set says it works with Shimano 11, so I'm mostly worried about which crank setup to use for the Dura Ace mechanical.


TBH, building a bike isn't hard. However, if you are not familiar with everything, then be sure to research very carefully, and if in doubt, buy the frame, and get ur LBS to build it up and buy components from them too.

You can use shimano cranks on a BB30 frame. You can get convertors, but the best it to use an actual correct BB - Praxis works make one, as do Rotor.

Have a look here:

http://problemsolversbike.com/files/tech/Bottom_Bracket_Standards_Reference.pdf


----------



## clenbutador

MMsRepBike said:


> For Dura-Ace or any Shimano setup you want a BSA frame.
> It's most likely going to be english threaded so get the english threaded Dura Ace bottom bracket. That's what I have on my Flyxii bike.


Did you buy direct from Flyxii or from eBay? I'm interested in getting it painted and trying to figure out who might be able to do that.



saad said:


> TBH, building a bike isn't hard. However, if you are not familiar with everything, then be sure to research very carefully, and if in doubt, buy the frame, and get ur LBS to build it up and buy components from them too.
> 
> You can use shimano cranks on a BB30 frame. You can get convertors, but the best it to use an actual correct BB - Praxis works make one, as do Rotor.
> 
> Have a look here:
> 
> http://problemsolversbike.com/files/tech/Bottom_Bracket_Standards_Reference.pdf


Thanks, I work on my Cannondale (change tubes, straighten the rim, adjust derailleurs), but haven't put together a full bike before.

I found that the Shimano bottom bracket comes in BSA english or italian threading, so I believe it would be best to go with that.


----------



## MMsRepBike

clenbutador said:


> Did you buy direct from Flyxii or from eBay? I'm interested in getting it painted and trying to figure out who might be able to do that.
> 
> Thanks, I work on my Cannondale (change tubes, straighten the rim, adjust derailleurs), but haven't put together a full bike before.
> 
> I found that the Shimano bottom bracket comes in BSA english or italian threading, so I believe it would be best to go with that.


The great thing about Shimano is that they have immaculate instructions that anyone can follow. If you're detail oriented, can follow directions well and have the proper tools, you can do it. Outside of their great instructions, you can find videos on youtube from BikeRadar and GlobalCyclingNetwork and ArtsCyclery that will help visualize some of the processes.

I bought from ebay, simple transaction and the frame arrived in days. If you want to get something painted I'd suggest going through the company. That way you can have the proper email correspondence. They will take your payment directly through paypal.

What bike are you interested in? Seems that DengFu has a pretty good result with their painting, might want to use them. Feel also seems pretty good at it.


----------



## clenbutador

MMsRepBike said:


> The great thing about Shimano is that they have immaculate instructions that anyone can follow. If you're detail oriented, can follow directions well and have the proper tools, you can do it. Outside of their great instructions, you can find videos on youtube from BikeRadar and GlobalCyclingNetwork and ArtsCyclery that will help visualize some of the processes.
> 
> I bought from ebay, simple transaction and the frame arrived in days. If you want to get something painted I'd suggest going through the company. That way you can have the proper email correspondence. They will take your payment directly through paypal.
> 
> What bike are you interested in? Seems that DengFu has a pretty good result with their painting, might want to use them. Feel also seems pretty good at it.


I like the Flyxii 322 in matte or painted. Dengfu FM-029 looks nice as well, but they don't have any prices listed and that makes it harder. Trying to contact all of the companies now.


----------



## MMsRepBike

clenbutador said:


> I like the Flyxii 322 in matte or painted. Dengfu FM-029 looks nice as well, but they don't have any prices listed and that makes it harder. Trying to contact all of the companies now.


Sounds like pretty much the same bike if memory serves. Madone copy sort of thing. Very widely purchased and ridden frame, maybe the flagship of the China frames outside of the FM-98. 

Flyxii could probably do just fine of a job painting, but it's hard to vote against some of the recent bikes shown in this thread in that category. DengFu has a strong reputation here so I'm going to assume their value is in line and their pricing is competitive.

Looking back over your posts recently I'm going to suggest Feel actually. I think you're looking for something more like the Tarmac and less like the Madone. I'm not sure but I'm going to say that Feel has their hand a little deeper in the counterfeit market than DengFu does. They might have better access to the Tarmac like frame you're after.


----------



## clenbutador

MMsRepBike said:


> Sounds like pretty much the same bike if memory serves. Madone copy sort of thing. Very widely purchased and ridden frame, maybe the flagship of the China frames outside of the FM-98.
> 
> Flyxii could probably do just fine of a job painting, but it's hard to vote against some of the recent bikes shown in this thread in that category. DengFu has a strong reputation here so I'm going to assume their value is in line and their pricing is competitive.
> 
> Looking back over your posts recently I'm going to suggest Feel actually. I think you're looking for something more like the Tarmac and less like the Madone. I'm not sure but I'm going to say that Feel has their hand a little deeper in the counterfeit market than DengFu does. They might have better access to the Tarmac like frame you're after.


That is a great suggestion and I have contacted saad, but I'm unsure of alibaba and the feel bike company. I believe it is their webpage that is in Chinese, and that's Greek to me!

saad's Feel looks exactly like a Cervelo C5, and the Flyxii 322 does look more like a Tarmac Sworks to me.

I read on this thread that the 322 was confirmed to have T800 which is a nice change from some of the T700 frames out there. No idea what Feel utilizes! <mytubeelement id="myTubeRelayElementToTab" event="relayPrefs" data="{"loadBundle":true}"></mytubeelement>


----------



## VQuick

From what I've read a few pages back, Feel uses T800 (but I don't know what that means--is it just a better carbon/carbon process?). Feel makes a lookalike to the new Cervelo R5, which is an awesome looking frame (and super light). I'm thinking about ordering one at some point. Feel's website is not in Chinese, here it is: Feel (Shenzhen) Technology Co., Limited - frame,fork


----------



## ChevyDK

Which frames from which supliers looks like the Venge?


----------



## clenbutador

VQuick said:


> From what I've read a few pages back, Feel uses T800 (but I don't know what that means--is it just a better carbon/carbon process?). Feel makes a lookalike to the new Cervelo R5, which is an awesome looking frame (and super light). I'm thinking about ordering one at some point. Feel's website is not in Chinese, here it is: Feel (Shenzhen) Technology Co., Limited - frame,fork



Contacted Feel through your link and they can't do the Contador paint job I talked about a few posts earlier. :-(


----------



## clenbutador

ChevyDK said:


> Which frames from which supliers looks like the Venge?


Feel Bicycles, in the post above yours has a bike similar to the Venge


----------



## VQuick

clenbutador said:


> Contacted Feel through your link and they can't do the Contador paint job I talked about a few posts earlier. :-(


Sorry to hear that. I don't see the appeal of trying to copy an S-works down to the decals and every detail. That's what I'd call a poseur bike. Which I guess is fine if your main goal is trying to impress people who are impressed by expensive things. Why not customize it tastefully instead of putting a bunch of advertising for a company? My two cents.


----------



## clenbutador

VQuick said:


> Sorry to hear that. I don't see the appeal of trying to copy an S-works down to the decals and every detail. That's what I'd call a poseur bike. Which I guess is fine if your main goal is trying to impress people who are impressed by expensive things. Why not customize it tastefully instead of putting a bunch of advertising for a company? My two cents.


I'm okay without the Specialized logos. I like the Yellow/Pink/Red design part of it and would take just flowing black stripes in lieu of Specialized logos. Just like the design in general, and I already have a Selle Italia Contador seat to match it.


----------



## Ashbringer

View attachment 295572

ordered for Miracle just now,I'll get it tomorrow.


----------



## nirVELOvana

Ashbringer said:


> View attachment 295572
> 
> ordered for Miracle just now,I'll get it tomorrow.


Which "_Miracle_", Ashbringer? A lot of people confuse one for the other. But they're not one and the same:


_Shenzhen Miraclebike Sports Equipment Co., Ltd._
_Shenzhen Miracle Carbon Technology Co., Limited_
I make the distinction, 'cause I bought a frame from *Miraclebike* — and they deserve mad props.

_Miraclebike_ must have only recently started publishing their customer service agent's pix. I never knew my gal — _Sally Li_ — was such a babe until today!



Incidentaly, Ashbringer. Whatever you attached still isn't working.

So let me introduce you to _tinypic_. After you upload your image file from your hard drive, copy the link from the box labeled, "_IMG Code for Forums & Message boards_" — then paste it into the message editor.


----------



## Ashbringer

nirVELOvana said:


> Which "_Miracle_", Ashbringer? A lot of people confuse one for the other. But they're not one and the same:
> 
> 
> _Shenzhen Miraclebike Sports Equipment Co., Ltd._
> _Shenzhen Miracle Carbon Technology Co., Limited_
> I make the distinction, 'cause I bought a frame from *Miraclebike* — and they deserve mad props.
> 
> _Miraclebike_ must have only recently started publishing their customer service agent's pix. I never knew my gal — _Sally Li_ — was such a babe until today!
> 
> 
> 
> Incidentaly, Ashbringer. Whatever you attached still isn't working.
> 
> So let me introduce you to _tinypic_. After you upload your image file from your hard drive, copy the link from the box labeled, "_IMG Code for Forums & Message boards_" — then paste it into the message editor.


thanks.Miracle is the first one:迈科.
and they just told me,the Feat Bikes and Miracle bikes are the same.

and let me try again.









done?well,thanks for your advice.*nirVELOvana*


----------



## nirVELOvana

Ashbringer said:


> thanks.Miracle is the first one:迈科.
> and they just told me,the Feat Bikes and Miracle bikes are the same.
> 
> and let me try again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> done?well,thanks for your advice.*nirVELOvana*


My pleasure 

So "迈科" is hanzi for "Miracle"? Hen Hao 

Never heard of "_Feat Bikes_". That FM186 is an awesome-looking frame man! Excellent choice :thumbsup: 

What web site is your picture from? It doesn't look like alibaba or any others I've seen. Looks like it's an Asian-based site. No?


----------



## Ashbringer

nirVELOvana said:


> My pleasure
> 
> So "迈科" is hanzi for "Miracle"? Hen Hao
> 
> Never heard of "_Feat Bikes_". What web site is your picture from? It doesn't look like alibaba or any others I've seen. Looks like it's an Asian-based site. No?


the web of Alibaba in China--Taobao,Simplified Chinese-Based site.


----------



## nirVELOvana

Ashbringer said:


> the web of Alibaba in China--Taobao,Simplified Chinese-Based site.


谢谢

Did you have your FM186 painted? _Miraclebike_ did a phenomenal custom paint and decal job on my frame!


----------



## ruckus

See questions about FR-322.

This is NOT similar to any Specialized bike. If you want something you can compare to, closest frame I've seen is the Felt F2 series, very close.

It's a Toray T800 frame, and it's a larger build than any Tarmac I've seen, more robust tubes and size. Headtube and bottom bracket on FR-322 is larger than the Tarmac. 

That's my assessment in comparison to a Tarmac. Have not seen option for custom paint with Flyxii through ebay. But the prices are the best.


----------



## nirVELOvana

I gotta say this: I really wanna give you a high five, Ashbringer, for going with the FM186!

I remember you said before _you had some challenges finding a frame that fit you_. So did you choose your FM186 mainly because it comes in a 50.5 cm size?

Whatever your reason, Ashbringer, your excellent choice of frame goes to show _what I said before about the availability of so many excellent alternatives_ — even though there are hundreds of different models of Chinese-direct open mold/OEM and reproduction carbon frames available to choose from, people always, always, always choose the same 4 or 5 frame models. I _*seriously*_ need somebody to tell me what's up with that?

Chalk one up to Ahsbringer for individuality :thumbsup:


----------



## redstarcap

clenbutador said:


> I have some questions:
> Does anyone know of other places than Velobuild.com and Flyxii to make a purchase?


You can contact Chris Mei from Zhongwei for velobuild frames
Chris 
Carbon fiber bicycle parts 
Website : www.forall-bike.com ; http://uis-carbon.en.alibaba.com/ ;www.cool-carbon.com
Email:[email protected]
MSN:[email protected] 
Skype :chris_mei007 
Mobile :86-13510262471


----------



## 00Garza

redstarcap said:


> You can contact Chris Mei from Zhongwei for velobuild frames


Last I heard Chris was now working for velobuild, or does he still do business independently on the side? Not sure how that arrangement works.


----------



## InBlack

Hey everyone, sorry to cut into the conversation.
I'm in the process of building up an FM015 frame. I was working on the cable routing today and I starting having trouble with the internal rear brake cable. It seems to start binding and it has a really heavy pull to it to get the rear brake to work.

I used jagwire cables and housing up until the internal routing and then put a standard size ferrel where it entered the frame.

I'm wondering, does the cable and cable housing go straight through the frame or do I need something like a longer ferrel to help guide the cable through the frames internal routing?

Thanks!!


----------



## redstarcap

00Garza said:


> Last I heard Chris was now working for velobuild, or does he still do business independently on the side? Not sure how that arrangement works.


You can try contact him. From what I know he's from company called Zhongwei, velobuild selling zhongwei frames, etc. You can cut the middleman and contact him directly


----------



## Bonefish

saad,
i am new to this forum but have been part of and involved in a similar thread on weightweenies. I was in contact with Ken at Feel about the "R5". I just did not take the plunge. I was about to go with Hongfu FM 066 sl or a new R3. Are you happy with the bike. I have not been able to get any feedback on their frame and still really like the look. Ken sent me tons of info, tests, photos, pictures of the frame weight etc. I was impressed by his communication. After reading some of your posts I have started to gain confidence (a little) any feed back would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance


----------



## nirVELOvana

redstarcap said:


> You can try contact him. From what I know he's from company called Zhongwei, velobuild selling zhongwei frames, etc. You can cut the middleman and contact him directly


I've resisted butting into this conversation — _because I hate repeating myself_ — believe it or not  

But I hate _even more_ the spread of confusion and misinformation. At the end of March '14 I emailed Chris Mei himself (_at the velobuild email address somebody else posted_) because at the time I was researching Zhongwei's frames. _*Chris Mei himself replied to my email and said he no longer works for Zhongwei — he said that he left them to work for velobuild*_.

Since the end of March/early April '14 — _when I bought my most recent frame *direct from Zhongwei*_ — I've been liaising on a daily basis with 3 different Zhongwei agents. Since then, there have been here in this thread several emphatic instructions to contact Mr. Mei at Zhongwei. Even after I was told by Mr. Mei himself who his current employer is, I nevertheless broached the subject of Mr. Mei with each of the 3 different Zhongwei agents I've been liaising with. I asked a different agent each time that somebody in this thread had advised somebody else to "_contact Chris Mei at Zhongwei_".

All three of the agents have said — and I paraphrase — "_*Yeah. I know Chris Mei. He used to be my boss. But he quit Zhongwei in early 2014. He now works for velobuild*_". 

*I don't know everything*. I only know what I've gotten direct from the source. So unless our Mr. Mei is telling some people one thing and telling others another thing — _which I find hard to believe_ — my money's on my *straight from the horse's mouth* sources.


----------



## clenbutador

Bonefish said:


> saad,
> i am new to this forum but have been part of and involved in a similar thread on weightweenies. I was in contact with Ken at Feel about the "R5". I just did not take the plunge. I was about to go with Hongfu FM 066 sl or a new R3. Are you happy with the bike. I have not been able to get any feedback on their frame and still really like the look. Ken sent me tons of info, tests, photos, pictures of the frame weight etc. I was impressed by his communication. After reading some of your posts I have started to gain confidence (a little) any feed back would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance


I'd be interested in hearing the answers to this as well. How did you contact Ken? I'm not an alibaba member and haven't figured out a Skype or email that works yet!?


----------



## VQuick

Bonefish said:


> saad,
> i am new to this forum but have been part of and involved in a similar thread on weightweenies. I was in contact with Ken at Feel about the "R5". I just did not take the plunge. I was about to go with Hongfu FM 066 sl or a new R3. Are you happy with the bike. I have not been able to get any feedback on their frame and still really like the look. Ken sent me tons of info, tests, photos, pictures of the frame weight etc. I was impressed by his communication. After reading some of your posts I have started to gain confidence (a little) any feed back would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance


Would you be able to send me (or post online) the info that Ken at Feel sent you? I'm not ready to buy yet but so far I'm thinking the Feel "R5" model is for me.


----------



## KriegRipper

m.aliexpress.com/item/1569926212.html?tracelog=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail

Has anyone ever owned one? any problems?


----------



## Coolhand

*Moderators Note*

Just a quick reminder to please not post counterfeit stuff, as that can cause us issues (open molds, and "inspired by" obviously not a problem). Thanks for your understanding.


----------



## Ashbringer

ive just built my FM186








the smallest size 505









7.2kg


----------



## nirVELOvana

Ashbringer said:


> ive just built my FM186
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the smallest size 505
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7.2kg


Man! That was a quick build, Ashbringer! _Didn't you get it only 2 days ago_? You don't mess around. Do you man? 

I seriously dig that frame. I'd love to see more pix. Please? Drive side? Non-drive side? Some close-ups? 

Hopefully your example will wake people up to the fact that there are so many killer frame alternatives out there to choose from — like your FM186 for example. 

I _*really*_ wish somebody would explain to me why more people aren't as daring as Ashbringer. What do people have against _*not*_ buying the same 4 or 5 frame models that everybody and his brother owns. My best guess is, "_Fear Of The Unknown_. Could that be it? I wonder.

Anyway. High Five, Ashbringer, for leading the charge!


----------



## PauliG

Ashbringer,
Nice bike. What sort of money is the fm186? Did that come with the seat post?


----------



## PauliG

saad said:


> My "R5" Arrived from Feel-Bicycles the other day. Very impressed, it looks a pretty much perfect copy...


Thinking of that frame too. Some questions if you don't mind.
What was the raw price of the frame?
How much for the painting?
Were you waiting long for it to be shipped?

Thanks


----------



## 00Garza

nirVELOvana said:


> I _*really*_ wish somebody would explain to me why more people aren't as daring as Ashbringer. What do people have against _*not*_ buying the same 4 or 5 frame models that everybody and his brother owns. My best guess is, "_Fear Of The Unknown_. Could that be it? I wonder.


I think your right on with the fear of the unknown. Often, new technology or design needs some bugs worked out. When I got my R-002 it was kind of the new kid on the block, but there were a few builds already posted on velobuild. I really liked the look of the frame and the geometry worked for me. Also, it was significantly cheaper than other models. :thumbsup:

That is a nice looking bike, and a fast build!


----------



## nyknicks4412

I need a 64 cm frame...any idea if any of these manufacturers in China make them? Would love to do a build just can't find a frame that will work in my size.


----------



## RaptorTC

nirVELOvana said:


> What do people have against _*not*_ buying the same 4 or 5 frame models that everybody and his brother owns. My best guess is, "_Fear Of The Unknown_. Could that be it? I wonder.


Definitely. Buying Chinese carbon requires a bit of "blind faith" that you're actually buying a good product. Seeing a frame that has been put to the test by others brings a certain level of comfort that you won't be wasting money on a frame that's not durable. There are plenty of pictures of broken Chinese carbon floating around the web.

That was definitely a huge factor of why I went with the FM098. Tons of people have them and I'd heard of minimal problems, so I took that as a plus. Well, that and its one of the only frame that comes in a size big enough to fit me.


----------



## Ashbringer

nirVELOvana said:


> Man! That was a quick build, Ashbringer! _Didn't you get it only 2 days ago_? You don't mess around. Do you man?
> 
> I seriously dig that frame. I'd love to see more pix. Please? Drive side? Non-drive side? Some close-ups?
> 
> Hopefully your example will wake people up to the fact that there are so many killer frame alternatives out there to choose from — like your FM186 for example.
> 
> I _*really*_ wish somebody would explain to me why more people aren't as daring as Ashbringer. What do people have against _*not*_ buying the same 4 or 5 frame models that everybody and his brother owns. My best guess is, "_Fear Of The Unknown_. Could that be it? I wonder.
> 
> Anyway. High Five, Ashbringer, for leading the charge!


yep,i ordered it on Sat last week,and got it Sunday morning,thanks for SF express.
and then i built it up on Sunday.I planned to test it yesterday,but it was raining.
i'll take more pix later.
BTY,i got it from Sally-li.



> Ashbringer,
> Nice bike. What sort of money is the fm186? Did that come with the seat post?


well,it takes $450 in total,with seatpost and headset,shipping...


----------



## maxxevv

That's awesomely fast service! And a very good price too boot too if shipping is inclusive! 

Looks good, do update on the ride once you've had some decent miles on them. 

I ride WS02 from Gotobike myself, its been a pretty sweet 18mths on it. Good to see new offerings with great pricing too.


----------



## saad

Coolhand said:


> Just a quick reminder to please not post counterfeit stuff, as that can cause us issues (open molds, and "inspired by" obviously not a problem). Thanks for your understanding.


AH yeah. My point was and picture was a more a WTF! haha. Essentially, why would they make a cable guide with a cervelo logo and part number? Makes no sense, and it gets you questioning about who makes the frames etc


----------



## ghettocop

saad said:


> AH yeah. My point was and picture was a more a WTF! haha. Essentially, why would they make a cable guide with a cervelo logo and part number? Makes no sense, and it gets you questioning about who makes the frames etc


The reason it had the Cervelo logo was not because they actually produce the Cervelo frames and accidentally stuck a cable guide from the "Cervelo assembly area" on there......it's because in addition to unmarked frames, they also make counterfeit Cervelos.


----------



## saad

ghettocop said:


> The reason it had the Cervelo logo was not because they actually produce the Cervelo frames and accidentally stuck a cable guide from the "Cervelo assembly area" on there......it's because in addition to unmarked frames, they also make counterfeit Cervelos.


Yes you're probably right, but the length they go to to make it is insane, the attention to detail etc. For instance, the cervelo seatpost clamp is a shape which is flat on one side, and you can't just use a normal 27mm clamp, same deal here. 

The other possibility is that they get the cable guide from the factory that makes the real Cervelo's, or use the same mould for the plastic etc.

Either way, makes me feel good about the bike. I wasn't after a counterfeit Cervelo, merely a bike with the same fit


----------



## PauliG

saad said:


> Either way, makes me feel good about the bike. I wasn't after a counterfeit Cervelo, merely a bike with the same fit


What was the cost of the frame?


----------



## Ashbringer

i want to take more pix,but my old out-of-dated cell phone is not good at this.
the drive side:








the non-drive side:









for more detail, I need to find my camera...


----------



## nirVELOvana

Ashbringer said:


> i want to take more pix,but my old out-of-dated cell phone is not good at this.
> the drive side:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the non-drive side:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for more detail, I need to find my camera...


Awesome! 

Keep 'em comin' man


----------



## nirVELOvana

00Garza said:


> I think your right on with the fear of the unknown. Often, new technology or design needs some bugs worked out. When I got my R-002 it was kind of the new kid on the block, but there were a few builds already posted on velobuild. I really liked the look of the frame and the geometry worked for me. Also, it was significantly cheaper than other models.
> 
> That is a nice looking bike, and a fast build!





RaptorTC said:


> Definitely. Buying Chinese carbon requires a bit of "blind faith" that you're actually buying a good product. Seeing a frame that has been put to the test by others brings a certain level of comfort that you won't be wasting money on a frame that's not durable. There are plenty of pictures of broken Chinese carbon floating around the web.
> 
> That was definitely a huge factor of why I went with the FM098. Tons of people have them and I'd heard of minimal problems, so I took that as a plus. Well, that and its one of the only frame that comes in a size big enough to fit me.


Yeah. OK. That sorta makes sense. Kinda.

It doesn't make _complete_ sense though. 

By that, I mean — back when _Miracle_ were still in Killerbee's good books, hundreds of velobuilders were buying the same 1 or 2 frame models from _Miracle_. Even though _Miracle_ manufactures, tests, sells and warranties at least a dozen other different frame models. 

I find it hard to believe that only one or two frames out of _Miracle's_ entire catalog are any more "_road-worthy_" or "_dependable_" than any of the other frames they also manufacture, test, sell and warranty. 

To my way of thinking — if a company makes *one* _tried-and-tested_ frame model, then I would (and indeed, *I have*, three times so far) take it on blind-faith that the other frame models in that same company's lineup are _at least_ the same standard as their hottest-seller. But I confess — I'm not as big of a worrywart as the majority of people I know. That's just me.

Same thing with _Zhongwei_ and velobuild now. 95% of the posts — _the ones that past censorship anyway_ — are about the same 2 _Zhongwei_ frame models. But _Zhongwei_ has dozens of other killer frames! Why would people think that _Zhongwei_ would only focus all their frame-making prowess on one or two frames? That's what doesn't make sense to me. That's what makes me suspect that something *in addition to* "_The Fear of The Unknown_" is driving the majority's choices.

Same thing — again — when velobuild were chummy with _Honor Bikes_. Whatever happened to them, incidentally? When I used to lurk there, that one guy "_Mark_" from _Honor Bikes_ use to post a different bike from _Honor Bikes_ catalog to velobuild every other day - with the admin's blessing and support. Now all of a sudden — _when I searched for him 2 months go when I was sourcing my current build project_ — I see he's now persona non grata. All his posts have been deleted! LOL! 

So when _Zhongwei_ stop's towing the velobuild admin's line — _and velobuild forms another marriage of convenience with yet another supplier_ — it will not surprise me to see 95% of velobuilders buying the same one or two frames made by *that* new velobuild partner.

When I take the above into account, I can't help but think it has _*something*_ to do with that one line from the song "_When The Saints Go Marching In_"...



Public Domain said:


> ...
> Oh, I want to be in that number...
> ...


 Maybe? Not even just a teensy bit?


----------



## saad

PauliG said:


> What was the cost of the frame?


About 700 all up


----------



## nirVELOvana

I'm laying odds that this time next year, _Zhongwei's_ current reign over on velobuild will be usurped by Feel once KillerBee casts eyes on a certain gorgeous Pearl White "_R5_" 

Any takers?


----------



## saad

nirVELOvana said:


> I'm taking bets that this time next year, _Zhongwei's_ current reign over on velobuild will be usurped by Feel once KillerBee casts eyes on a certain gorgeous Pearl White "_R5_"
> 
> Any takers?



Hehehehe.


----------



## InBlack

*FM015 Internal Brake Routing*

I'm in the process of building up an FM015 frame. I was working on the cable routing the other day and I starting having trouble with the internal rear brake cable. It seems to start binding and it has a really heavy pull to get the rear brake to work.

I used jagwire cables and housing up until the internal routing and then put a standard size ferrel where it entered the frame.

I'm wondering, does the cable and cable housing go straight through the frame or do I need something like a longer ferrel to help guide the cable through the frames internal routing?

Thanks!!


----------



## Bootje




----------



## Bonefish

clenbutador said:


> I'd be interested in hearing the answers to this as well. How did you contact Ken? I'm not an alibaba member and haven't figured out a Skype or email that works yet!?


[email protected] this is the mail address I have used to communicate with Ken at Feel. Hope that helps


----------



## clenbutador

saad said:


> About 700 all up


$700 for the frame only? For a no name frame? Wow. What happened to the exchange rate?

But in all seriousness, I contacted Chris_Mei and I'm really confused. I got his contact off of Feel Bicycles, asked about the R5, but wasn't sure about what he offered.

Is velobuild = Feel? What R5 Feel is the same as the Velobuild? 

I'm more confused than ever......


<mytubeelement id="myTubeRelayElementToTab" event="relayPrefs" data="{"loadBundle":true}"></mytubeelement>


----------



## maxxevv

That's probably including shipping, paintwork, applicable taxes, Paypal fees, maybe a headseat, seatpost and a spare derailleur hanger.


----------



## saad

maxxevv said:


> That's probably including shipping, paintwork, applicable taxes, Paypal fees, maybe a headseat, seatpost and a spare derailleur hanger.


Yep. Which is why I said $700 all up. 



clenbutador said:


> $700 for the frame only? For a no name frame? Wow. What happened to the exchange rate?


Not sure how $700 is unreasonable for a sub 1KG T800 carbon frame!

Velobuild is not Feel. The velobuild one is Zhongwei. Similar, but slightly different. 

Honestly, if you are wary or uncomfortable, best to just to buy one off eBay, or through velobuild.


----------



## clenbutador

saad said:


> Yep. Which is why I said $700 all up.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure how $700 is unreasonable for a sub 1KG T800 carbon frame!
> 
> Velobuild is not Feel. The velobuild one is Zhongwei. Similar, but slightly different.
> 
> Honestly, if you are wary or uncomfortable, best to just to buy one off eBay, or through velobuild.


That's what I am looking to do and funny enough they both come out to 963.50 for similar parts. Almost as if Velobuild and the eBay frames are the same thing.... 

Ironically Flyxii is $965 total for the parts I'm looking for. It's like all of these "different" companies know what they all way.



I'm looking at Velobuild for the R-016, anyone have any luck or info with that frameset???




<mytubeelement id="myTubeRelayElementToTab" event="relayPrefs" data="{"loadBundle":true}"></mytubeelement>


----------



## nirVELOvana

For some reason I'm feeling in the mood for a little apocalyptic bebop right about now...






...HehHehHeh...!


----------



## nirVELOvana

Actually — _now that I think about it_ — logic and common sense isn't a strong suit for the majority. Is it? So I think we're alright for a while. 

Phew!


----------



## PaxRomana

That video is a mix of truth and BS. I suppose the difficult part for most people is separating the two.

I agree with him that you shouldn't put "Pinarello" on a fake, though I suppose it didn't stop him from buying one. Moreover, it's not the sticker that differs a Pinarello from a fake. Just copying the entire frame and slapping another name on there doesn't magically transform it into something else, though it may ease some people's consciences.

I would also agree that the bikes are probably as good or almost as good as the name-brand frames. I haven't seen any crash data, but based on reading these boards, I don't see that these frames break with any higher frequency than name-brand frames. That said, I'm not sure where he gets the claims of "guarantees" and "testing". So far, we see some pictures of testing equipment but I'm not convinced these frames undergo the same testing as the name brands.

Just because someone is articulate doesn't mean they're telling you the truth. I think this guy is just telling everyone his opinion. In that sense, he's no different than someone posting on here, and should be regarded as such. 

In any case, I've bought frames and wheels from Taiwan (Gigantex). Never had a problem. Frames were great (same as those sold under the Trigon or Blue label), but not very stiff. Anyway, there are some spectacular frames on here.


----------



## nirVELOvana

Yes sir. I think we're alright for a while.


----------



## paterberg

clenbutador said:


> That's what I am looking to do and funny enough they both come out to 963.50 for similar parts. Almost as if Velobuild and the eBay frames are the same thing....
> 
> Ironically Flyxii is $965 total for the parts I'm looking for. It's like all of these "different" companies know what they all way.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm looking at Velobuild for the R-016, anyone have any luck or info with that frameset???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <mytubeelement id="myTubeRelayElementToTab" event="relayPrefs" data="{"loadBundle":true}"></mytubeelement>


Yeah the R-016 caught my eye too. Not as light as fm066 etc but still pretty decent and a 31.6mm seatpost.


----------



## nirVELOvana

Too bad these Chinese no-brands don't undergo the same testing as the name brands. 

Your Feels. Your Miracles. Your Zhongweis. _They're all missing out on some primo free publicity that only the name brands rightfully deserve_. If only Cycling Yong's testing methodology was _as infallible as those guys'_. If only!


----------



## saad

Looks like my post with the video. was deleted. 

Dont see why - although he spoke about "copy bikes" he didn't advocate using the brand name they copy, i.e. saying you should not call it a pinarello or whatever, and he was more talking about quality control etc in China, and comparing the differences between a brand name and a China no name bike. 

Never new mods could be so short sighted. Looks like they didn't even watch the video.

And nirVELOvana, thanks for your comments before they were edited, and before the mods deleted my post.

"The only downside is — because dude is so articulate and his position so logical and straightforward — I'm worried that now *EVERYODY* and his dog will be jumping on the bandwagon. HehHehHehHeh "

Hehehe


----------



## nirVELOvana

saad said:


> ...
> And nirVELOvana, thanks for your comments before they were edited, and before the mods deleted my post.
> 
> "The only downside is — because dude is so articulate and his position so logical and straightforward — I'm worried that now *EVERYODY* and his dog will be jumping on the bandwagon. HehHehHehHeh "
> 
> Hehehe


My pleasure 

_Pinarello is breathing down everybody's necks_. Even guys buying the reproductions are getting charged.

I guess the mods don't want to risk any forum posts being misconstrued by Pinarello as "_promotional material_".


----------



## saad

nirVELOvana said:


> My pleasure
> 
> _Pinarello is breathing down everybody's necks_. Even guys buying the reproductions are getting charged.
> 
> I guess the mods don't want to risk any forum posts being misconstrued by Pinarello as "_promotional material_".


It all seems a bit silly. People buying them know they aren't genuine, if nothing, the price gives it away. And people buying them aren't likely to be people buying their first bike, and know what they are getting into. 

And its only counterfeit when it pretends to be the real thing, and is sold as such. Essentially, I don't think the replica/inspired by frames are hurting pinarello sales, completely different market, price point etc. Of course when a shop sells fake products as genuine, thats fraud, and a different matter entirely.

That being said, they are damn ugly I have no idea why anyone would buy them!

In other news, I spoke to Feel, and he told me the hardware for the frame, such as the BB cable guide, comes from another factory who make the genuine frames. However, he checked for me, and said they can supply them without the logo if needed. Interesting.


----------



## nirVELOvana

saad said:


> ...
> That being said, they are damn ugly I have no idea why anyone would buy them!
> ...


I know! Right? LOL!

It's always been my opinion that Salvidor Dali's estate oughta sue Pinarello for making bikes that look like a sophomoric pastiche done by a pretentious art student copycatting the mustachioed master's oeuvre. LOL!


----------



## PaxRomana

While some may not like the looks of the Pinarellos, they ride spectacularly well, IMO. Stiff, solid, and the best descending bikes I have ever ridden.


----------



## MMsRepBike

PaxRomana said:


> While some may not like the looks of the Pinarellos, they ride spectacularly well, IMO. Stiff, solid, and the best descending bikes I have ever ridden.


Yup, love mine. I'm looking hard at picking up a Dogma K as well. I have long legs and a short torso so endurance frames that are setup aggressively suit me best. That pretty much eliminates all "race" bikes and most open mold bikes too. China tends to copy what the pros ride, or those characteristics at least. Too stretched out for me.

When I have the time I'll go looking through all the open molds to see if anything suits me. Reach of 375 and stack of 545-555. Unfortunately they don't all list reach and stack numbers for their frames.


----------



## Cinelli 82220

saad said:


> People buying them know they aren't genuine


No, I think a lot of buyers are, or were getting scammed on EBay.

I contacted about 20 different sellers over the past two years. They all had obviously fake Dogmas listed. I asked them directly if the frame was genuine and they insisted it was genuine OEM, exactly the same as Pina. And they had Pina markings. So they are intentionally misleading people, and some people who did not know better got scammed.

It doesn't matter if the victims "should have known better". The onus is on sellers to be honest. Lying is lying, stealing is stealing.


----------



## nirVELOvana

Does anybody remember stage 7 of the 2013 Giro d'Italia? Bradly Wiggins descended so _*spectacularly well*_ on his Pinarello. Didn't he?

Let's ask Sir Wiggins what _*he*_ thinks of *his* _Dali_...I mean Pinarello 





LOL!


----------



## MMsRepBike

nirVELOvana said:


> Does anybody remember stage 7 of the 2013 Giro d'Italia?
> LOL!


That's a problem with Shimano, not Pinarello. And he was climbing. There's a long list of people who've had problems with Di2. BMC has had some really bad luck because of mechanicals.


----------



## nirVELOvana

MMsRepBike said:


> That's a problem with Shimano, not Pinarello. And he was climbing. There's a long list of people who've had problems with Di2. BMC has had some really bad luck because of mechanicals.





bbc.co.uk said:


> ...
> Sir Bradley Wiggins's hopes of winning _*the [2013] Giro d'Italia*_ for the first time were hit when he crashed on a _*seventh stage*_ won by Australian Adam Hansen.
> The Team Sky rider slipped off on a bend *while descending*...
> ...
> Don't take *my* word for it...


Either you and I watched two different _Stage 7s of the 2013 Giro_, good buddy, or you're confused by the video in my last post — _which is *not* of the 2013 Giro_. I included it 'cause it just happens to work well as a sight gag


----------



## MMsRepBike

nirVELOvana said:


> Either you and I watched two different _Stage 7s of the 2013 Giro_, good buddy, or you're confused by the video in my last post — _which is *not* of the 2013 Giro_. I included it 'cause it just happens to work well as a sight gag


Okay, I see what you did there. So about the Giro crash:



> Things got worse for Wiggins on the way down when he misjudged a right-hand bend and fell heavily on his right-hand side, sliding on the ground for 10 metres.
> He was able to continue but rode gingerly in the final stages, struggling to keep up with his Colombian team-mates Rigoberto Uran and Sergio Henao, who dropped back to help him.


So how is that a problem with the bike? In both cases you posted saying there was a problem with Pinarello there was nothing that the frame did wrong. I'm sure you can find someone that's snapped a steerer or something better than shifting problems or misjudging a turn and laying it down. Put your troll hat on a bit straighter and work a bit harder.


----------



## PaxRomana

Yeah, the Pinarellos are so bad that the last two TdFs have been won on them. Pinarello has a long tradition in the pro peloton. While I disagree with some of their marketing BS, I still think they make great frames.

Look, nirvelo, if you want to buy bikes from China, more power to you. Attacking a name brand just because you want to justify your decision just makes you seem petty.


----------



## ghettocop

saad said:


> It all seems a bit silly. People buying them know they aren't genuine, if nothing, the price gives it away. And people buying them aren't likely to be people buying their first bike, and know what they are getting into.
> 
> And its only counterfeit when it pretends to be the real thing, and is sold as such. Essentially, I don't think the replica/inspired by frames are hurting pinarello sales, completely different market, price point etc. Of course when a shop sells fake products as genuine, thats fraud, and a different matter entirely.
> 
> That being said, they are damn ugly I have no idea why anyone would buy them!
> 
> In other news, I spoke to Feel, and he told me the hardware for the frame, such as the BB cable guide, comes from another factory who make the genuine frames. However, he checked for me, and said they can supply them without the logo if needed. Interesting.


LOL. So you are saying that the company that manufactures Pinarello, send genuine parts to a company that builds replicas and counterfeits for them to use? Right.


----------



## MMsRepBike

ghettocop said:


> LOL. So you are saying that the company that manufactures Pinarello, send genuine parts to a company that builds replicas and counterfeits for them to use? Right.


Cervelo, not Pinarello, but yeah. There's a company, probably an injection molding plastic company that makes little plastic parts for Cervelo. The open mold company buys those same parts. It's probably cheaper/easier to just sell them the ones that say Cervelo on them so they don't have to retool to make blank named ones.


----------



## saad

Cinelli 82220 said:


> No, I think a lot of buyers are, or were getting scammed on EBay.
> 
> I contacted about 20 different sellers over the past two years. They all had obviously fake Dogmas listed. I asked them directly if the frame was genuine and they insisted it was genuine OEM, exactly the same as Pina. And they had Pina markings. So they are intentionally misleading people, and some people who did not know better got scammed.
> 
> It doesn't matter if the victims "should have known better". The onus is on sellers to be honest. Lying is lying, stealing is stealing.


Or, if you didn't quote out of context, you would have seen that I said:

"Of course when a shop sells fake products as genuine, thats fraud, and a different matter entirely."

Then again, if you buy a Dogma on eBay, from China, with paint etc, for $700, brand new, and think its genuine.....


----------



## saad

ghettocop said:


> LOL. So you are saying that the company that manufactures Pinarello, send genuine parts to a company that builds replicas and counterfeits for them to use? Right.


LOL. I have no idea what you are talking about. Where did I say that? 

And please learn to be civil, your tone is unnecessary and unappreciated.


----------



## saad

MMsRepBike said:


> Cervelo, not Pinarello, but yeah. There's a company, probably an injection molding plastic company that makes little plastic parts for Cervelo. The open mold company buys those same parts. It's probably cheaper/easier to just sell them the ones that say Cervelo on them so they don't have to retool to make blank named ones.


Precisely.


----------



## ghettocop

saad said:


> It all seems a bit silly. People buying them know they aren't genuine, if nothing, the price gives it away. And people buying them aren't likely to be people buying their first bike, and know what they are getting into.
> 
> And its only counterfeit when it pretends to be the real thing, and is sold as such. Essentially, I don't think the replica/inspired by frames are hurting pinarello sales, completely different market, price point etc. Of course when a shop sells fake products as genuine, thats fraud, and a different matter entirely.
> 
> That being said, they are damn ugly I have no idea why anyone would buy them!
> 
> In other news, I spoke to Feel, and he told me the hardware for the frame, such as the BB cable guide, comes from another factory who make the genuine frames. However, he checked for me, and said they can supply them without the logo if needed. Interesting.


Oops, sorry. Language error. wrote Pinarello instead of Cervelo and you said it in the sentence above......." the hardware for the frame, such as the BB cable guide, comes from the factory who make the GENUINE FRAMES. Sorry for not being civil. It just annoys me that people are buying replica frames from the same four or five companies that also sell counterfeit stuff with out hesitation.


----------



## nirVELOvana

ghettocop said:


> ...It just annoys me that people are buying replica frames...


I know how you feel ghettocop.


----------



## clenbutador

In all honesty, there are no signs on these websites that say, we counterfeit, but we also don't counterfeit. 

Someone make a list of whats original and what's not and I'm willing to read it.


----------



## clenbutador

What are everyones thoughts on the FM-066 from Dengfu/Hongfu? Seems to have some good reviews on youtube.


----------



## saad

clenbutador said:


> What are everyones thoughts on the FM-066 from Dengfu/Hongfu? Seems to have some good reviews on youtube.


Have you read this thread? Or the many others?


----------



## PauliG

saad said:


> Have you read this thread? Or the many others?


I doubt it. Lots won't search for the information-its easier to get someone to write up a personal briefing / report.


----------



## saad

PauliG said:


> I doubt it. Lots won't search for the information-its easier to get someone to write up a personal briefing / report.


Yeah I know hence my comment/subtle suggestion. People repeatedly asking the same questions is a quick way to destroy repositories of information in a forum.


----------



## nirVELOvana

clenbutador said:


> What are everyones thoughts on the FM-066 from Dengfu/Hongfu? Seems to have some good reviews on youtube.


Tsk-tsk-tsk clenbutador. You ought to be ashamed of yo self! Don't you know that a thread with the title, "_*Chinese* Carbon Thread and Ebay direct..._" is no place to ask about bikes from _*China*_?

I _*had*_ considered offering you my opinion clenbutador — based on my personal experience of buying bikes from China (_3 times, no less_). But then I realized that what you are doing is you're soliciting opinions in order to *justify your decision to buy a bike from China*. And everybody knows that wanting to justify one's decisions just makes one seem petty. 

Maybe one day clenbutador. Maybe after you have — _like I have_ — also bought _*without hesitation*_, 3 Chinese carbon frames and sundry bike parts from China (_my seat for my imminent "R5" build just arrived in the mail yesterday as it happens. *WOOHOO!*_). Maybe then you will also reach that point in life when you no longer require justification from _*anybody*_ — to do _*anything*_. 

On that day, you will be a man, my son. On that day, you will have reached _*NIRvèloVANA*_!

But until that day — _your journey starts here_.


----------



## BikeInCanada

nirVELOvana said:


> Tsk-tsk-tsk clenbutador. You ought to be ashamed of yo self! Don't you know that a thread with the title, "_*Chinese* Carbon Thread and Ebay direct..._" is no place to ask about bikes from _*China*_?
> 
> I _*had*_ considered offering you my opinion clenbutador — based on my personal experience of buying bikes from China (_3 times, no less_). But then I realized that what you are doing is you're soliciting opinions in order to *justify your decision to buy a bike from China*. And everybody knows that wanting to justify one's decisions just makes one seem petty.
> 
> Maybe one day clenbutador. Maybe after you have — _like I have_ — also bought _*without hesitation*_, 3 Chinese carbon frames and sundry bike parts from China (_my seat for my imminent "R5" build just arrived in the mail yesterday as it happens. *WOOHOO!*_). Maybe then you will also reach that point in life when you no longer require justification from _*anybody*_ — to do _*anything*_.
> 
> On that day, you will be a man, my son. On that day, you will have reached _*NIRvèloVANA*_!
> 
> But until that day — _your journey starts here_.


I'm way in on the Chinese carbon train. 

But you are just coming off as an arrogant twat waffle.


----------



## nirVELOvana

BikeInCanada said:


> ...
> ...you are just coming off as an arrogant twat waffle.



Then my mission is accomplished. I am grateful for your validation, kind sir.


----------



## VQuick

Yeah, tone it down, nirVELOvana. I don't know why you spend so much effort writing long responses with _*carefully italo-bolded phrases*_, off-topic videos, irrelevant links, and annoying images.

I do know that it just adds a lot of noise to the discussion here--regardless of how much good information you also share, or how good your intentions. We're not looking for a wacky comedy hour when we come to this forum.

More signal, less noise, please!


----------



## eddy2heavy

Hi SL06 Did you have any luck with a solution to this? I just started building a Hongfu fm069 with 6800 50/34 and ran into the same problem. 

Thought about trimming the spring flush but then realised I still might have interference from the arm anyway, looks like that is exactly the case from your photos


----------



## Tswifty

nirVELOvana said:


> Does anybody remember stage 7 of the 2013 Giro d'Italia? Bradly Wiggins descended so _*spectacularly well*_ on his Pinarello. Didn't he?
> 
> Let's ask Sir Wiggins what _*he*_ thinks of *his* _Dali_...I mean Pinarello
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL!


You realise that the video you posted is from the Giro Del Trinteno right? Not the Giro D'Italia.

In the wet even the best riders crash. Hell Thor almost ran off the road during the Tour on a cervelo and shrugged it off.
With Wiggo he lost all confidence and later pulled out of tour. But in complete contrast Froome won the TDF that same year. One riders mistake does not mean a bike is faulty.
No name bike or Brand name bike


----------



## maxxevv

You guys using BSA threaded BB's there ? You could try adding a 1mm spacer to the BB mount. That was what we used to do in the old days for steel bikes too the chainrings were too close to the chainstays.


----------



## ChevyDK

In everyway the man/woman is 90% and the bike only 10%


----------



## syraleo

the thread derailment is strong here...

anyway, anymore riders of the R5 copy? im getting bored of my chinarello, since these frames are cheap, im thinking of getting the R5 copy just for the looks alone.

anyone got comments on it?


----------



## MMsRepBike

syraleo said:


> the thread derailment is strong here...
> 
> anyway, anymore riders of the R5 copy? im getting bored of my chinarello, since these frames are cheap, im thinking of getting the R5 copy just for the looks alone.
> 
> anyone got comments on it?


I think it's ugly as hell. There's not much too it, very straight and basic. I too am thinking of an R5 though, purely based on geometry. You should note the huge difference between the two. The Dogma is very low and long while the R5 and RCA are quite tall and short. The stack/reach of the two are very far apart. If you're buying a bike based on looks and a Dogma fits you than the R5 is probably one of the worst fitting ones you could pick for yourself.


----------



## syraleo

MMsRepBike said:


> I think it's ugly as hell. There's not much too it, very straight and basic. I too am thinking of an R5 though, purely based on geometry. You should note the huge difference between the two. The Dogma is very low and long while the R5 and RCA are quite tall and short. The stack/reach of the two are very far apart. If you're buying a bike based on looks and a Dogma fits you than the R5 is probably one of the worst fitting ones you could pick for yourself.


i actually quite like the "squoval" thing. not sure if they copied that or just made it a rectangular-ish shaped downtube.

if i do get the Chinalo R5, i'd have to get size 48 based on the TT alone compared to my chinarello.

i'm still looking around though, might actually get a generic china frame of their own design, i think they're improving fast, but still copying from the other frame makers though.


----------



## bvber

BikeInCanada said:


> Have only had the frame for a week but I can this far say it's amazing. So smooth. Well balanced. Loving it.


I just pulled the trigger on (my second) Chinese carbon bike frame, Zhongwei R-002.  Will post updates as it develops.


----------



## rider3000

Hi there,

I was hoping to buy a FM028 from dengfu but was told its been discontinued… they told me the new FM029A is an update… can anyone confirm and tell me if anybody can give me info on if its the same quality or if there are some issues… far as i see the main deference is internal cabling. Im soooo ready to pull trigger so i nee advise please!


----------



## BikeInCanada

bvber said:


> I just pulled the trigger on (my second) Chinese carbon bike frame, Zhongwei R-002.  Will post updates as it develops.
> 
> View attachment 296025


Nice! Congrats. It's a great frame. I'm loving mine. I'm a about 750km now. No complaints at all. 

Keep us updated


----------



## PauliG

MMsRepBike said:


> I think it's ugly as hell. There's not much too it, very straight and basic. I too am thinking of an R5 though, purely based on geometry. You should note the huge difference between the two. The Dogma is very low and long while the R5 and RCA are quite tall and short. The stack/reach of the two are very far apart. If you're buying a bike based on looks and a Dogma fits you than the R5 is probably one of the worst fitting ones you could pick for yourself.


That's a really good post!!
I am considering this bike but not sure about geometry. Have short legs 79.5/80cm(31") for a height of just over 1m 68(5ft 6). If I go smalest frame - will the Top tube be too short. My current bike is a classic steel from 1990, is 52cm c-c, with a 53.5cm TT and a 110mm stem. I could come back a bit on stem to 90mm as I am 20yrs older than when I raced that bike !! Wondering the best size and fit for me now (without a custom fitting)
Can those with more knowledge of modern geometry help me?


----------



## MMsRepBike

PauliG said:


> That's a really good post!!
> I am considering this bike but not sure about geometry. Have short legs 79.5/80cm(31") for a height of just over 1m 68(5ft 6). If I go smalest frame - will the Top tube be too short. My current bike is a classic steel from 1990, is 52cm c-c, with a 53.5cm TT and a 110mm stem. I could come back a bit on stem to 90mm as I am 20yrs older than when I raced that bike !! Wondering the best size and fit for me now (without a custom fitting)
> Can those with more knowledge of modern geometry help me?


It's about stack and reach. If you have a bike now that fits you well that you like you should figure out the stack and reach of it. Try to match the new bike to that. Top tube length does not work. Sometimes there's more top tube behind the bottom bracket than another size or frame. Reach is really what you need to keep consistent. The Dogma is a bike I can't comfortably ride, my torso is too short. In order to get the reach short enough the drop from my seat to my handlebars would be way too much. I'd have to put way too many spacers under the stem, it wouldn't be right. Therefore I would need a Dogma K, the bike in their lineup with my sort of geometry.

Shorter legs and longer torso means you can ride the majority of the open mold frames. Most are long and low to emulate the way the pro bikes are made. The FR-315 frame I have is quite low and quite long. I wonder if you can find a geometry chart for your classic steel that shows stack and reach, if not you can find it yourself with some carpenter's tools.


----------



## bvber

Frame arrived quicker than I expected. :thumbsup:


----------



## bifrost

*Fork carbon defect*

I just got my bike yesterday and I noticed a defect in the fork's steerer tube. Any thoughts on if this is something that would be a structural issue? Should I try to get different fork from my vendor?


----------



## syraleo

i chuckled when i saw QC PASS.


----------



## Coolhand

I think that's their only sticker. . .


----------



## PauliG

bifrost said:


> I just got my bike yesterday and I noticed a defect in the fork's steerer tube. Any thoughts on if this is something that would be a structural issue? Should I try to get different fork from my vendor?


No expert on carbon but I would be concerned if that was my fork. What frame is that? And the vendor with the dubious QC?


----------



## SL06

eddy2heavy said:


> Hi SL06 Did you have any luck with a solution to this? I just started building a Hongfu fm069 with 6800 50/34 and ran into the same problem.
> 
> Thought about trimming the spring flush but then realised I still might have interference from the arm anyway, looks like that is exactly the case from your photos


I have talk to the company and they are sending me a new derailleur bracket (holder). I hope that it will do, but I already have tried to move the derailleur out or back by adding spacer without success. Moving back 1-2 mm does the job but you cant adjust the derailleur properly after that. I have not tried to move the dreailleur forward. I would need to modify the bracket. For now the derailleur is at is normal position but at 4 mm above the big chainring (52 tooth) instead of 3 mm. Yes, a 50 tooth chainring would probably be worse. At 4 mm, the shifting is fine up to now.

As propose by maxevv, adding a spacers to the BB would likely do the job. I measure the BB and its at 68mm as its suppose. Spacers are easy to find. But, if to thick, it will also change the chainline and could affect the shifting at the front. 
I will wait to see if the new derailleur holder will work first, before increasing the Q factor.

Drilling a 3 mm hole in the frame at the wright place would also do the jobs but I would ask the company first to make shure that they agree with this solution.

Or again, find a 11V derailleur that could be adapt to Shimano shifter.Pull ratio often differs and modification would likely be needed.

The new holder is suppose to be here in about 10 days, and I will let you know. Except for that the bike is very good. Weight 15,1 lbs with 38 mm carbon-Alum wheel , Ultegra 6800.

The bike is stiff, fast and but comfortable. The steering is quite nervous, but still OK. It could certainly be tone down a bit for a more relax ride.


----------



## FABDUB

I am looking for some experiences about the frames FM186 and FM695, thanks for charing your thoughts about this two frames.


----------



## Maglore

rider3000 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I was hoping to buy a FM028 from dengfu but was told its been discontinued… they told me the new FM029A is an update… can anyone confirm and tell me if anybody can give me info on if its the same quality or if there are some issues… far as i see the main deference is internal cabling. Im soooo ready to pull trigger so i nee advise please!


The FM029 is the FM028, only with internal cabling.


----------



## svard75

saad said:


> My "R5" Arrived from Feel-Bicycles the other day. Very impressed, it looks a pretty much perfect copy, and the paint job was great too, the pearl is brilliant.
> 
> The frame came in at 972g with all hardware except seatpost collar. It is a 56. Came with a bottom bracket installed too, to suit Shimano, which I had to remove. I might make a build thread, whats the best place to do that?
> 
> Have some rubbish pics, will upload proper ones soon:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pear finish:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Applying paint protection:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cranks installed:


Looks great. I heard these R5 replicas were noodly. How does yours feel?


----------



## FABDUB

*Feedback*



Ashbringer said:


> ive just built my FM186
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the smallest size 505
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7.2kg


What is your feedback for this frame? Thanks in advance.


----------



## jermleeds

*Recco for FM-029*



Maglore said:


> The FM029 is the FM028, only with internal cabling.


I built up an FM-029 (DengFu) a year ago. It's great, I have 2500 issue-free miles on it. Riding has been on mountain roads in the SF Bay Area, and alpine centuries in the Sierra. 

Set-up was a breeze. The ride is plush, the pedaling efficient. The geometry is relaxed (all day comfortable), although the steering is quite responsive. 

Happy customer.


----------



## Ashbringer

FABDUB said:


> What is your feedback for this frame? Thanks in advance.


well,i have no idea about this.i've never ridden any well-known frames,so i don't know how to compare the difference.
i don't know how to express the experiences on its ridding.maybe you can lead me to what you want to know about it?


----------



## SL06

eddy2heavy said:


> Hi SL06 Did you have any luck with a solution to this? I just started building a Hongfu fm069 with 6800 50/34 and ran into the same problem.
> 
> Thought about trimming the spring flush but then realised I still might have interference from the arm anyway, looks like that is exactly the case from your photos



I am still waiting for the new derailleur bracket from Hong-Fu. For now, with the derailleur modification I got a 4 mm gap between the derailleur and the big chainring at the shifting is OK. This is with a 52-36 compact crank. 

For a smaller crank, if the new bracket dont work and you want to keep the ultegra groupset, I have read that Microshift a coming very soon with a 11 V groupset. I believe that the 10 V front derailleur was compatible with Shimano shifter (not 100% certain). If its the case, the 11V might be as well...

I will keep you inform once I receive the bracket...


----------



## 1805078

Coolhand said:


> I think that's their only sticker. . .



better check under the sticker as well....just to be sure


----------



## fronesis

Has anyone bought from the FlyXii email address, [email protected]?

I previously bought from zgr9 on eBay, and this time I want to get not just the frameset but also bars, stem, bottle cages, etc., and he has given me this email address. I couldn't find anything when googling, so just thought I'd check here.


----------



## bvber

Some progress with R-002 frame. Those are Mavic Aksium S wheels set. Cassette is Shimano 105 10 speed 12-27.


----------



## California_Dave

Hi Guys,

I've been reading through all the posts related to Chinese frames on this website and on MTBR. I am interested in the LT Bikes LTK 115D. I have seen some pictures of these frames, so I know that some people have them, but I haven't seen a detailed review yet. If anyone on here has details they can share about their experiences with this frame or LT Bikes it would be much appreciated. 

Thanks!


----------



## [email protected]

Check over at Velobuil, the R-051 is the same frame:
Velo Build :: Topic: R-051 (1/3)
Velo Build :: Topic: R-051 D buildup (1/1)


----------



## California_Dave

[email protected] said:


> Check over at Velobuil, the R-051 is the same frame:
> Velo Build :: Topic: R-051 (1/3)
> Velo Build :: Topic: R-051 D buildup (1/1)



Thanks for the tip. I have also seen that the Yoeleo YCRDF01 is essentially the same. If frames look exactly the same, they obviously must have come out of the same mold. But does this mean that multiple manufacturers have the same mold, or that one factory is making them and selling to multiple middle-men companies?


----------



## PauliG

California_Dave said:


> Thanks for the tip. I have also seen that the Yoeleo YCRDF01 is essentially the same. If frames look exactly the same, they obviously must have come out of the same mold. But does this mean that multiple manufacturers have the same mold, or that one factory is making them and selling to multiple middle-men companies?


Could be either of those scenarios.


----------



## PauliG

RaptorTC said:


> Counterfeit frames/wheels ain't welcome 'round these parts.


Bang on. How long before its taken down!!


----------



## rider3000

Hi people,

Has anyone bought from Stren bike (wiel Bike ) before ? I got very good feedback and it seems to be a smooth deal but i can't find any reviews on them? Please would anybody that dealt with them share their thoughts.


----------



## jtb013

It's the same frame as FM-R833 that is sold by Xiamen. I think that they just painted it up differently.


----------



## PauliG

jtb013 said:


> It's the same frame as FM-R833 that is sold by Xiamen. I think that they just painted it up differently.


If they are selling it as a Museeuw frame, and it's not an original, then it's a fake.

If it's available as an open mould from someone else (unpainted) why not get it there? It probably cheaper and you can have it painted or leave plain, carbon.


----------



## jtb013

Thanks for the suggestion. Any ideas on where the best place is to get a carbon frame painted?


----------



## MMsRepBike

jtb013 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. Any ideas on where the best place is to get a carbon frame painted?


same place you buy it from.


----------



## PauliG

jtb013 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. Any ideas on where the best place is to get a carbon frame painted?


Come on...you gotta do some research of your own..there are thousands of posts here about this.


----------



## bvber

*R-002 frame*

About half way there. Fittings are good so far.


----------



## lacofdfireman

I have google searched for is on this thread but haven't seen much so I will ask the question. Which of the Chinese companies if any make a larger carbon Frame? I am 6'5 and would like to try a different carbon frame than the XL Ridley Excalibur that I am currently riding. I'd love an XXL Scott Foil or something along those lines. Just haven't found anyone that makes one yet.

Any help or direction on this would be appreciated..


----------



## simnorm

i'm also 6'5, I ride a 62cm Focus frame. I could fit on a 60cm or 63cm Cannondale

The largest chinese frame I've seen are 60cm. The FM066 is available in that size, it fits the same as a Cannondale Supersix 60cm frame. There's also the FM069.

IMO, at 6'5" you won't find a relaxed fit/position on any chinese frame


----------



## MMsRepBike

*Bad Feel Bikes Experience*

So I purchased a frame from Feel. They're work is in this thread recently with some nice custom paint and some nice attention to detail so I went for it.

Big mistake. Where to start...

Things were fine at first. Yoyo was very nice, answered all questions worked well on the paint design, everything was good. After about 3 weeks or so I got a picture, one picture of the frame/fork/seatpost. It looked perfect. I told them to mail it and to please included all the stuff for Di2 and such.

About a week or so later I got a message with more pictures. Pictures of a different frame. This second frame had a very similar paint job but it was wrong, it no longer had my graphics on it. It had a graphic on the top tube that I didn't ask for and didn't want. The message said they would mail the frame soon.

I immediately replied telling them it was a mistake and not to send it. Turns out they had sent it 3 days before even sending me pictures of it. They knowingly sent me a mistake frame and kept the good one.

I asked them to take the frame back and fix it. I offered to do whatever necessary on my part to make it happen. They refuse. They claim they can't receive any foreign shipments or returns. They told me to buy the frame without mistakes and they'd give me a discount on it. With no refund on the first one! Why would I do that?

To make matters worse, the paint job is terrible. They painted the rear derailleur hanger and it's threads making it unuseable. They left a large paint drip in the headtube so the bearing wouldn't fit in there. I had to file away the paint with a diamond file to get the bearing in. Also the headtube construction inside is very poor.

The seatpost they gave me is too big for the frame! Frame opening is 27.4mm and the seatpost is 27.6mm! 

It's been a couple days since I brought up the seatpost issue to them and they haven't even responded. I've sent pictures of a digital caliper measuring everything. 

The only thing they've offered to me is for me to buy another frame from them at a very slight discount. They won't even entertain fixing any of the issues I have.

There's a strong chance this is going to end up in a credit card chargeback.

Be warned, stay away from FEEL bikes.


----------



## n00b_rider

MMsRepBike said:


> So I purchased a frame from Feel. They're work is in this thread recently with some nice custom paint and some nice attention to detail so I went for it.
> 
> Big mistake. Where to start...
> 
> Things were fine at first. Yoyo was very nice, answered all questions worked well on the paint design, everything was good. After about 3 weeks or so I got a picture, one picture of the frame/fork/seatpost. It looked perfect. I told them to mail it and to please included all the stuff for Di2 and such.
> 
> About a week or so later I got a message with more pictures. Pictures of a different frame. This second frame had a very similar paint job but it was wrong, it no longer had my graphics on it. It had a graphic on the top tube that I didn't ask for and didn't want. The message said they would mail the frame soon.
> 
> I immediately replied telling them it was a mistake and not to send it. Turns out they had sent it 3 days before even sending me pictures of it. They knowingly sent me a mistake frame and kept the good one.
> 
> I asked them to take the frame back and fix it. I offered to do whatever necessary on my part to make it happen. They refuse. They claim they can't receive any foreign shipments or returns. They told me to buy the frame without mistakes and they'd give me a discount on it. With no refund on the first one! Why would I do that?
> 
> To make matters worse, the paint job is terrible. They painted the rear derailleur hanger and it's threads making it unuseable. They left a large paint drip in the headtube so the bearing wouldn't fit in there. I had to file away the paint with a diamond file to get the bearing in. Also the headtube construction inside is very poor.
> 
> The seatpost they gave me is too big for the frame! Frame opening is 27.4mm and the seatpost is 27.6mm!
> 
> It's been a couple days since I brought up the seatpost issue to them and they haven't even responded. I've sent pictures of a digital caliper measuring everything.
> 
> The only thing they've offered to me is for me to buy another frame from them at a very slight discount. They won't even entertain fixing any of the issues I have.
> 
> There's a strong chance this is going to end up in a credit card chargeback.
> 
> Be warned, stay away from FEEL bikes.


Where are your pics? Pls post the original ref pics, "wrong" ref pics, plus actual pics of frame received.


----------



## MMsRepBike

n00b_rider said:


> Where are your pics? Pls post the original ref pics, "wrong" ref pics, plus actual pics of frame received.


Welcome to the forum.

This forum has strict rules and the pictures break those rules so they're not being posted. I don't mind sending you some via pm if you really care to call me out though.


----------



## saad

So basically you asked them to make a counterfeit bike?

Do a paypal dispute, they tend to respond pretty quick if you do that


----------



## n00b_rider

MMsRepBike said:


> Welcome to the forum.
> 
> This forum has strict rules and the pictures break those rules so they're not being posted. I don't mind sending you some via pm if you really care to call me out though.


Yes, pls send. Also, where are the rules posted?


----------



## MMsRepBike

saad said:


> So basically you asked them to make a counterfeit bike?
> 
> Do a paypal dispute, they tend to respond pretty quick if you do that


Nope but that's basically what I got. It's not even a good one at that. The paint color is nice but that's the end of it really. Also got a counterfeit seatpost that won't fit in any frame and is worthless. Problem is they refuse to take this crap back. Or send me what I paid for.

Basically the rep I am dealing with said that "the guys" made a paint mistake. Also said "the guys" made a mistake and sent me the wrong frame. Then said only thing that can be done is a discount on another frame. I'm guessing partial refund for a new paint job by a company that'll pay attention to it's customer's request and for a seatpost that actually fits in the frame is what the outcome will end up being.



n00b_rider said:


> Yes, pls send. Also, where are the rules posted?


Sure. And good question. I just know you can't post counterfeit stuff which is what I ended up with. If you scroll back to pages 160ish or something you'll see where I had a problem with a previous unbranded frame from a different seller but that was resolved quite well. This seller is nothing but unhelpful.


----------



## saad

thats ****ed. Talk to this guy on skype, its who I dealt with, and he was awesome - 
luosongliang

His name is Regan, tell him I recommened him


----------



## MMsRepBike

Thanks, will do. 

I'm not the type to issue a chargeback or to cause problems. That would only be a last resort. I'm hoping to avoid that at all costs really, I understand that it damages merchants. A better rep is probably a great idea, I'm sure not everyone there is bad. I've ordered stuff from China for a good many years and usually find their customer service quite impressive and always polite. This is my first bad experience.


----------



## saad

If they are straight out refusing to fix the problem, and want yout to buy another, then you NEED to start a Paypal request/chargeback ASAP. Then they will act. At least then, you get your money back.


----------



## MMsRepBike

Oh I have a close eye on the clock. I won't let the time period lapse without a resolution. I have 90 days of time to reach an amicable solution before I issue a chargeback. It seems that's what's going to happen but we'll see.


----------



## jorisdw

@MMsRepBike

Sad to hear this!
I was also contemplating to buy the R5 copy from FEEL. But hearing this,.. I will wait it out i guess. Please keep us updated on how this new rep deals with the issues.

@ saad

Did u get e chanse to ride your FEELbike yet? If u did, please tell us how you experianced it . It looks like a high quality frame but does it ride like one?


----------



## PauliG

@MMsRepBike
That's awful service by Feel bike. Hopefully you can get it resolved. If Feel bike value the good name of Feel bike on here and the no of potential customers that will read your negative experience, they may reconsider. 

If I were you I would include a screen grab of your post and tell them that you will keep posting negative updates and comment until they supply you with the frame you ordered, in the correct size and colour, and with accessories that fit it.


----------



## myhui

I ride a WS-02 from GoToBike now, with SRAM Red 2012 fitted for BB30.

If I upgrade to a WS-03 from the same company, they now make the frame with a BB86 only.

Looking at the following chart, it seems like my crankset's spindle won't fit at all when going from BB30 to BB86: wrong length (too short by 18mm) and wrong diameter (by 6mm).

Is there any way to retrofit this? I'd hate to have to buy a new crankset just to upgrade to that frame.


----------



## MMsRepBike

myhui said:


> I ride a SRAM Red 2012 fitted for BB30.
> 
> If I upgrade to a WS-03 from the same company, they now make the frame with a BB86 only.
> 
> Looking at the following chart, it seems like my crankset's spindle won't fit at all when going from BB30 to BB86: wrong length (too short by 18mm) and wrong diameter (by 6mm).


Wheels Mfg BB86/92 Bottom Bracket for 24/22mm (SRAM/Truvativ) Cranks

Should do you fine. A Sram Red crank should fit into a BB86 frame with no issues.


----------



## myhui

MMsRepBike said:


> Wheels Mfg BB86/92 Bottom Bracket for 24/22mm (SRAM/Truvativ) Cranks
> 
> Should do you fine. A Sram Red crank should fit into a BB86 frame with no issues.


SRAM makes two types of Red cranks: GXP and BB30. GXP would fit into this bearing, not BB30. Look at the chart again, and note the spindle diameter: 30mm for BB30.


----------



## beston

myhui said:


> SRAM makes two types of Red cranks: GXP and BB30. GXP would fit into this bearing, not BB30. Look at the chart again, and note the spindle diameter: 30mm for BB30.


Check out the universal bottom brackets (UBB) sold by rotor. If it's going to work, rotor has a bb for it. 

...I agree though, the spindle length might be the key limiting factor in your choice.


----------



## myhui

I think the frame manufacturer did the right thing by going to BB86: no more press fit of bearings by users or LBS that can go wrong during the install, and the BB shell's width is 18mm wider, leading to more rigidity. But I've invested too much into my Red BB30 crank now to switch.

But BB30 was billed as a fresh design with greater ankle clearance due to the shorter spindle. SRAM already had GXP when they designed the BB30.


----------



## mikerp

myhui said:


> I think the frame manufacturer did the right thing by going to BB86: no more press fit of bearings by users or LBS that can go wrong during the install, and the BB shell's width is 18mm wider, leading to more rigidity.


Wow, you are actually making sense for once.


----------



## myhui

mikerp said:


> Wow, you are actually making sense for once.


But the sad part is that BB30 is a superior design to many others out there. I hope BB30 won't disappear too soon.


----------



## mikerp

myhui said:


> But the sad part is that BB30 is a superior design to many others out there. I hope BB30 won't disappear too soon.


Which ones?


----------



## myhui

mikerp said:


> Which ones?


GXP from SRAM.


----------



## SL06

SL06 said:


> I am still waiting for the new derailleur bracket from Hong-Fu. For now, with the derailleur modification I got a 4 mm gap between the derailleur and the big chainring at the shifting is OK. This is with a 52-36 compact crank.
> 
> For a smaller crank, if the new bracket dont work and you want to keep the ultegra groupset, I have read that Microshift a coming very soon with a 11 V groupset. I believe that the 10 V front derailleur was compatible with Shimano shifter (not 100% certain). If its the case, the 11V might be as well...
> 
> I will keep you inform once I receive the bracket...


HI, I have received the new front derailleur bracket. Its basically the same one as before, but the bent is very slightly different and bring the derailleur slightly backward.not very much.

Since my friend broke is collar bone when he hit gravel in a fast turn, I have plenty of time to fix is bike. Once the new part install, I did not do a major difference in the positioning. I have fine tune everything to the best and the derailleur is at 3 mm (instead of 4 ) above the biggest chainring, just within the spec. The shifting in fine at this position. 

This is with a 52-36 crank. If you have a 50 -34 crank , the derailleur have to be 4 mm lower. I dont see how this could work, with the interference of the frame. So, before ordering this frame, if want to install a compact cranket with the 6800 front derailleur, double check with Hong-Fu to make shure that they have solve the problem.

Except for this inconvenient, this frame is very good. The finish is and the ride is superb. The only thing that could be improve is that the steering is very sensitive. I would prefer it more relax.

Note that Microshift is coming with a 11V derailleur that should be compatible with Shimano. It could be a solution. 

maxxevv suggest above putting a washer on the BB. This would help but I am not certain that you would gain 4 mm need for a compact crank. A 1 mm spacer might be OK to gain a bit, but a 2 mm spacer could be to much and affect your chain line and rear shifting on the bigger ring of the cassette. Still, you can try.


----------



## ftmonjardim

Some photos taked few days ago.

Velobuild R-016 Frame 52cm ud finish.









































































































































































Hope you guys enjoy it..


----------



## bifrost

SL06 said:


> HI, I have received the new front derailleur bracket. Its basically the same one as before, but the bent is very slightly different and bring the derailleur slightly backward.not very much.
> 
> Since my friend broke is collar bone when he hit gravel in a fast turn, I have plenty of time to fix is bike. Once the new part install, I did not do a major difference in the positioning. I have fine tune everything to the best and the derailleur is at 3 mm (instead of 4 ) above the biggest chainring, just within the spec. The shifting in fine at this position.
> 
> This is with a 52-36 crank. If you have a 50 -34 crank , the derailleur have to be 4 mm lower. I dont see how this could work, with the interference of the frame. So, before ordering this frame, if want to install a compact cranket with the 6800 front derailleur, double check with Hong-Fu to make shure that they have solve the problem.
> 
> Except for this inconvenient, this frame is very good. The finish is and the ride is superb. The only thing that could be improve is that the steering is very sensitive. I would prefer it more relax.
> 
> Note that Microshift is coming with a 11V derailleur that should be compatible with Shimano. It could be a solution.
> 
> maxxevv suggest above putting a washer on the BB. This would help but I am not certain that you would gain 4 mm need for a compact crank. A 1 mm spacer might be OK to gain a bit, but a 2 mm spacer could be to much and affect your chain line and rear shifting on the bigger ring of the cassette. Still, you can try.


I was trying to complete my build and tune my front derailleur last night and I noticed I was running into this same issue. I may be out of luck since I am running a 50-34 compact crank. How long did it take to get a new front derailleur bracket from Hong Fu?


----------



## uyopilot

My FM098 - 2 years old, 3,500 miles no problems

Sram Force/Red
Chi Carbon Wheels
Fizik Saddle

No Issues with the frame, did replace the cheap Necco headset due to corrosion...


----------



## myhui

beston said:


> Check out the universal bottom brackets (UBB) sold by rotor. If it's going to work, rotor has a bb for it.
> 
> ...I agree though, the spindle length might be the key limiting factor in your choice.


To restart this discussion ...

Why did the manufacturer switch to BB86?

Is it because, by using an adaptor or not even needing an adaptor, a Campy or Shimano crank can fit? The SRAM BB30 crank has a smaller q factor and offers better ankle clearance.

Do high end cranks from those two manufacturers also offer the same features when fitted into a BB86?


----------



## 00Garza

uyopilot said:


> My FM098 - 2 years old, 3,500 miles no problems
> 
> Sram Force/Red
> Chi Carbon Wheels
> Fizik Saddle
> 
> No Issues with the frame, did replace the cheap Necco headset due to corrosion...
> 
> View attachment 297203



Thats a great looking build. Love the paint job.


----------



## giorgio4600

*Help with derailleur hanger for R-22*

Hi,
Could you anyone help me, where could I buy derailleur hangers for Axman R-22? I have searched the ebay and websites with hangers, but without luck. Thank you for your help.

George


----------



## VQuick

myhui said:


> I think the frame manufacturer did the right thing by going to BB86: no more press fit of bearings by users or LBS that can go wrong during the install, and the BB shell's width is 18mm wider, leading to more rigidity. But I've invested too much into my Red BB30 crank now to switch.
> 
> But BB30 was billed as a fresh design with greater ankle clearance due to the shorter spindle. SRAM already had GXP when they designed the BB30.


SRAM didn't create the BB30 standard, Cannondale did. I don't really understand the ankle clearance argument since I have no problems with GXP cranks (even though my heels do on occasion hit the chainstays on my commuter bike).

BB30 is great because it's light and has a large diameter spindle, but BB386, BBRight etc are even better because of added width.


----------



## .je

ftmonjardim said:


> Some photos taked few days ago.
> 
> Velobuild R-016 Frame 52cm ud finish.
> 
> Hope you guys enjoy it..


Hi, that looks gorgeous. Is the front end super low? It doesn't look like it from your pictures. 

I went to Velobuild's website to find geometry (albeit the 550 size), and since they don't have stack and reach, used geometryCalc to find them... and using the supplied fork length of 307mm gives a stack of *503.5mm*... which I think is wrong. Is there some other set of measurements to use, ie fork length (I thought that would be 370 not 307)? 

370mm gives very... '*gran fondo*' numbers (375 and 563mm). Is this what you found? I'm interested in this frame.


----------



## BambinoDoro

Hello,

Since today my Bottom bracket in my FM098 frame is making heavy noises (creaking) when pedalling. I've already replaced the GPX sram bearings to check, but its not from there. It is the BSA thread inside the frame that is making the noise. 

So, is there a way to fix the aluminum cups in the bottom bracket, or replace them? As I'm 99% sure this is where the play is. 

hope someone can help me out.

Thanks in advance.

***EDIT***

I received an email from Dengfu that I could buy a new BSA shell, but is it actually possible to remove current from my frame, and install a new shell? 

Below the image of the shell from DengFu and my BB:


----------



## AeroWeenie

Anyone have any experience with the Dengfu FM206? I'm debating between this one and the Dengfu FM098. I'm looking for a pure fast race horse.


----------



## asianarnold1

AeroWeenie said:


> Anyone have any experience with the Dengfu FM206? I'm debating between this one and the Dengfu FM098. I'm looking for a pure fast race horse.


go with the race proven fm098. (most) all of the bugs have been worked out through the experience of many others. 
i have ~600mi on mine in ~2mo with zero problems. i consistently hit 37mph max on our saturday pancake flat hammerfest rides. 
oh yeah, it's fast.


----------



## AeroWeenie

asianarnold1 said:


> go with the race proven fm098. (most) all of the bugs have been worked out through the experience of many others.
> i have ~600mi on mine in ~2mo with zero problems. i consistently hit 37mph max on our saturday pancake flat hammerfest rides.
> oh yeah, it's fast.


That's what I'll do. Nice bike. Its a beauty.


----------



## Rmabus

Hello all. I just ordered a FM066sl frameset with the BB30 system. I want to run it with the adapters to be able to run the old style sram red cranks and my stages powermeter. I cannot tell if the frameset is has the bearings internally, or if they are outboard bearings. I think wheels manufacturing has an adapter for my needs but there are a few to pick from. Anyone with this frame know what bb adapter I need for this frame and the 22-24mm red cranks? 

I also immagine this was covered in the previous posts but this has gotten really long.


----------



## DCash

Rmabus said:


> Hello all. I just ordered a FM066sl frameset with the BB30 system. I want to run it with the adapters to be able to run the old style sram red cranks and my stages powermeter. I cannot tell if the frameset is has the bearings internally, or if they are outboard bearings. I think wheels manufacturing has an adapter for my needs but there are a few to pick from. Anyone with this frame know what bb adapter I need for this frame and the 22-24mm red cranks?
> 
> I also immagine this was covered in the previous posts but this has gotten really long.


It is a standard BB30 shell so you need an adapter to GXP.

Let me google that for you


----------



## YOLO

Hello all, just a quick question. I used to be a pretty active lurker on this thread, but since purchasing my steel Trek, I kind of lost an interest in carbon fiber bikes lol (no offense!).
However, since my internship this summer is going to leave me with a healthy sum of cash, I'd like to get back into the carbon fiber game. It seems a lot has changed, and Dengfu/Hongfu/Flyxii are no longer the only players in the game. I am glad the Chinese carbon fiber field has expanded this far.


Anyway, I have a question about replica frames versus open mold frames. I understand that companies like Hongfu/Dengfu have their own open molds that are similar to their branded counterparts. The FM098 vs. the Specialized Venge is an easy example. However, on my quest to find a good frame, I have come across sellers who claim to have "authentic" Colnago, Cervelo S5, and Specialized Venge frames.

So my question is: Are these bikes legitimately identical to their branded counterparts? Or is the "Venge" on these sites just an open mold frame that is painted with a Specialized color scheme? I know the FM098 looks similar to a Venge, but both can easily be differentiated. If I were to purchase one of these Cervelo S5 frames, or Scott Foil frames, would they be the "real deal?" I'm talking like, cable holes, seatpost shape, bottom bracket type, and overall geometry. I'm not trying to pass these off as official frames, but I'd definitely love to put my own custom paint scheme on one. I love the look of the Venge, and my own custom color scheme would suit me fine. I have a neighbor who rides a 52cm Venge, and it fits me perfectly, so I'd like to buy a "Venge" frame with an identical geometry so as not to deal with any fitting issues.


Thanks in advance!


----------



## AeroWeenie

YOLO said:


> Hello all, just a quick question. I used to be a pretty active lurker on this thread, but since purchasing my steel Trek, I kind of lost an interest in carbon fiber bikes lol (no offense!).
> However, since my internship this summer is going to leave me with a healthy sum of cash, I'd like to get back into the carbon fiber game. It seems a lot has changed, and Dengfu/Hongfu/Flyxii are no longer the only players in the game. I am glad the Chinese carbon fiber field has expanded this far.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I have a question about replica frames versus open mold frames. I understand that companies like Hongfu/Dengfu have their own open molds that are similar to their branded counterparts. The FM098 vs. the Specialized Venge is an easy example. However, on my quest to find a good frame, I have come across sellers who claim to have "authentic" Colnago, Cervelo S5, and Specialized Venge frames.
> 
> So my question is: Are these bikes legitimately identical to their branded counterparts? Or is the "Venge" on these sites just an open mold frame that is painted with a Specialized color scheme? I know the FM098 looks similar to a Venge, but both can easily be differentiated. If I were to purchase one of these Cervelo S5 frames, or Scott Foil frames, would they be the "real deal?" I'm talking like, cable holes, seatpost shape, bottom bracket type, and overall geometry. I'm not trying to pass these off as official frames, but I'd definitely love to put my own custom paint scheme on one. I love the look of the Venge, and my own custom color scheme would suit me fine. I have a neighbor who rides a 52cm Venge, and it fits me perfectly, so I'd like to buy a "Venge" frame with an identical geometry so as not to deal with any fitting issues.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Most of the time they are not the real thing. they are frames painted to look the same. IMO stick with an open mold frame like the FM098 that most people have great reviews about and paint like a venge if that's what you want


----------



## bugly64

AeroWeenie said:


> Most of the time they are not the real thing. they are frames painted to look the same. IMO stick with an open mold frame like the FM098 that most people have great reviews about and paint like a venge if that's what you want


+1 but paint it much cooler than a Venge!


----------



## syraleo

I have a chinarello, compared it side by side to an authentic pinarello, the shape, length and the asymmetric profile is the same.

it's pretty much identical except for the bb.

however, does it ride like a pinarello? i dont know.

but one thing is for sure, that chinarello is rock solid, i was cycling in the dark once, my lights were out of power, i was going slow but i still missed this huge hole about 50cm deep, i weigh 100kg excluding the bike and i just went head in, the fork took the whole impact like a champ.


----------



## bvber

*R-002 frame*

Just about done. Only the left bar taping left. I already took her out for a short test ride and I like it so far. Very stiff and yet smooth.


----------



## lacofdfireman

Been searching through hundreds of pages of these Chinese Carbon threads and there seems to be very little information regarding the making of larger Carbon frames. I'm talking XXL's like 61cm's. Being 6'5 I don't fit on a 58cm and it seems that most companies only build to a 58cm.

If you are aware of a Chinese company building a 61cm frame, specifically a Scott Foil type I'd love to here who and where.

Also if you are taller like me and have a bigger Chinese carbon Frame of the 61cm variety please post them up. I haven't seen any. Thanks..


----------



## DCash

lacofdfireman said:


> Been searching through hundreds of pages of these Chinese Carbon threads and there seems to be very little information regarding the making of larger Carbon frames. I'm talking XXL's like 61cm's. Being 6'5 I don't fit on a 58cm and it seems that most companies only build to a 58cm.
> 
> If you are aware of a Chinese company building a 61cm frame, specifically a Scott Foil type I'd love to here who and where.
> 
> Also if you are taller like me and have a bigger Chinese carbon Frame of the 61cm variety please post them up. I haven't seen any. Thanks..


Shop 61cm bicycle frame online - Buy 61cm bicycle frame for unbeatable low prices on AliExpress.com

Speedercycle has a couple and the Deng Fu FM098 is available in a 61CM.


----------



## jmomentum

Rmabus said:


> Hello all. I just ordered a FM066sl frameset with the BB30 system.


I am also interested in this frame. Can you do me a favour and post the weight when you get it. Also what size did you get? 

For me I'm thinking of going BSA and using a shimano crank.


----------



## DudeMtn

View attachment 297815








3 years, a few thousand miles and still going strong. This DengFu FMO15 is a hell of a bike and I love blowing by these DBs on $8,000 rigs with matching kits and the look on their face.


----------



## jesse3

I'm building my first bike from the ground up, but as it seems the front derailleur hanger is mounted slightly off which makes it impossible to mount the front derailleur in line with the sprockets. anyone got experience in solving this? Sending the frame back to china doenst sound very tempting.


----------



## bvber

jesse3 said:


> but as it seems the front derailleur hanger is mounted slightly off


Off in what direction, out, in, towards front or back?


----------



## MMsRepBike

jesse3 said:


> I'm building my first bike from the ground up, but as it seems the front derailleur hanger is mounted slightly off which makes it impossible to mount the front derailleur in line with the sprockets. anyone got experience in solving this? Sending the frame back to china doenst sound very tempting.


You're best off bringing that in to a local bike shop to have them get it all tuned up for you. Maybe your support bolt is screwed in too far? Is the converter turned on or is it turned off? Did you set the converter properly? Maybe you just need to loosen the mounting bolt and turn the derailleur a little bit. Did you install the backup plate correctly? Could be a number of things. If you haven't yet, read this:

http://si.shimano.com/php/download.php?file=pdf/dm/DM-FD0002-04-ENG.pdf

I bet your frame is just fine.


----------



## jesse3

bvber said:


> Off in what direction, out, in, towards front or back?


Its facing out 




Red=sprocket
Black= derailleur


----------



## jesse3

MMsRepBike said:


> You're best off bringing that in to a local bike shop to have them get it all tuned up for you. Maybe your support bolt is screwed in too far? Is the converter turned on or is it turned off? Did you set the converter properly? Maybe you just need to loosen the mounting bolt and turn the derailleur a little bit. Did you install the backup plate correctly? Could be a number of things. If you haven't yet, read this:
> 
> http://si.shimano.com/php/download.php?file=pdf/dm/DM-FD0002-04-ENG.pdf
> 
> I bet your frame is just fine.


This might be the first bicycle im building up but its certainly not my first experience in bike mechanics


----------



## bvber

jesse3 said:


> Its facing out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Red=sprocket
> Black= derailleur


sprocket, I'm thinking you meant the chainring. Are you saying that you can't rotate the derailleur clockwise at the mounting bracket any further?


----------



## jesse3

correct, its rotated as far as it can go in that direction.

English is not my first language so I apologise for the confusion.


----------



## MMsRepBike

jesse3 said:


> This might be the first bicycle im building up but its certainly not my first experience in bike mechanics


Well the component you are working with is new. Things like the support bolt are new technology, and it could very well be your problem.

Also things like the converter on the derailleur are also new technology. Do you even have the special tool to tell how to wire it based on your frame?

How about you answer some questions instead talking yourself up.


----------



## bvber

jesse3 said:


> correct, its rotated as far as it can go in that direction.


If you don't get more info on this forum next couple of days, you may want to bring it to a local bike shop and ask for expert's opinion. If that doesn't work, then you may have to contact the frame seller.


----------



## jesse3

bvber said:


> If you don't get more info on this forum next couple of days, you may want to bring it to a local bike shop and ask for expert's opinion. If that doesn't work, then you may have to contact the frame seller.


I did contact the seller but i don't expect to much from thats so i decided to fix it today.


----------



## skitorski

MMsRepBike said:


> How about you answer some questions instead talking yourself up.


----------



## clenbutador

Alberto Contador just crashed out of the Tour de France, reportedly due to a frame splitting on a climb. 

Must be one of those cheap chinese Specialized Tarmac frames.....

[Insert IMG] "race bike" with Continental tires [/IMG]


----------



## ms6073

jesse3 said:


> I did contact the seller but i don't expect to much from thats so i decided to fix it today.
> View attachment 297887


Well, that certainly is one wat ti resolve the issue but not what I would have done. Based on past experience with others who have modified braze-on derailleur mounts, keep a close eye on that mount as the remove of material may lead to a stress riser at the bottom which allows the derailleur mount to deflect/flex under load preventing clean shifts from small to large chainrings.


----------



## clenbutador

clenbutador said:


> Alberto Contador just crashed out of the Tour de France, reportedly due to a frame splitting on a climb.
> 
> Must be one of those cheap chinese Specialized Tarmac frames.....
> 
> [Insert IMG] "race bike" with Continental tires [/IMG]


Typical cheap Chinese Frames:


----------



## bvber

clenbutador said:


> Typical cheap Chinese Frames:


It says, "S-WORKS". Those are very expensive.


----------



## jmomentum

So far there have been 4 different versions of how this frame broke. The latest being it was on top of the team car when it broke. Odd that the mechanic would have it in is hand (with alberto's number plate). Assuming that the most likely explanation is in fact true and it was broken during the crash... that was one hell of a crash.


----------



## Vee

clenbutador said:


> Typical cheap Chinese Frames:
> View attachment 297926


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/TeamBelkin">@TeamBelkin</a> helps out with Contador's bike. <a href="http://t.co/nslZaVfIvj">pic.twitter.com/nslZaVfIvj</a></p>— Richard Keeskamp (@RichardKeeskamp) <a href="https://twitter.com/RichardKeeskamp/statuses/488760013767593984">July 14, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


----------



## clenbutador

Vee said:


>


----------



## Vee

clenbutador said:


> Details of Alberto Contador's Tour-ending crash - VeloNews.com
> 
> What the heck is going on here? Belkin ran over Contadors 2nd bike, then picked up his 1st and he got on Roche's McLaren Tarmac before getting back on his other bike broken on top of the car.
> 
> What????
> 
> I thought only Chinese Carbon bikes ripped into pieces upon any impact. Weird.....<iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" style="display: none;"></iframe>


Nope. Here is the "final" story in that same article.



> UPDATE: However, a fourth version of events has since come to the fore, and it’s the most plausible yet. According to Specialized’s Giampaolo Mondini, one of Contador’s frames was broken while it was still on the roof. Following Contador’s crash, the team car had to rush to his aid and clipped the Belkin car as it passed, destroying the bike.
> 
> “What happened next is that the team car tried to get recover position and get up to him, passing all the other team cars in doing so. The road was really narrow and the second bike on the roof ended up touching those on the Belkin team car. It was going pretty fast and the frame broke on top of the roof due to the impact,” Mondini told CyclingTips.
> 
> 
> Read more at Details of Alberto Contador's Tour-ending crash - VeloNews.com


----------



## bvber

jesse3 said:


> I did contact the seller but i don't expect to much from thats so i decided to fix it today.
> 
> View attachment 297887


Let us know how it works out.


----------



## Tswifty

AeroWeenie said:


> Anyone have any experience with the Dengfu FM206? I'm debating between this one and the Dengfu FM098. I'm looking for a pure fast race horse.


I to am curious. Ive had a FM098 and liked it raced it at national level....didnt win but the thought was there 
But i wouldnt mind a FM206 for Triathlons or crit races.

Last i heard was the original 206 had some internal cable issue but that was resolved. And i assume since Vivelo bikes are using the 206 or have plans to it cant all be bad. Just wish there was someone floating around that could actually give a review of it.


----------



## 6thElement

What's the current favoured frame with compact geometry?

I had been looking at the FR-322, but for the build I'm doing a lower top tube would be preferable.


----------



## fronesis

6thElement said:


> What's the current favoured frame with compact geometry?
> 
> I had been looking at the FR-322, but for the build I'm doing a lower top tube would be preferable.


Are you looking for "compact geometry" in the sense of a bike with less reach and a taller headtube? 

Or are you looking for a bike with a sloping top tube for standover reasons?

The FR-315 has a sloping top tube, but I wouldn't call the bike "compact geometry" in the sense that most of the big brands now mean that term. The bike has a lot of reach and fairly low head tube. This is a perfect frame for me because I need a lot of reach (extremely long torso) but not a ton of standover (short legs). I don't think it would be a good frame for someone looking for a tall headtube and less reach.

I built one up in May and it's been absolutely fantastic – I've got about 1,000 miles on it.

The only issue I have with it is that I can't keep the brake cable for making noise by contacting the inside of the top tube (internal routing). It does this both over bumps and sometimes when I'm braking. Even with the bike just sitting in the stand you can squeeze the brake lever firmly and here a light click as the cable straights and hits against either the frame itself or the cable guide inside the frame. I tried foam inside the TT to stabilize the guide, but that didn't work. The problem is not the guide (no noise if the brake cable isn't run) but the cable itself. I think the issue is that the holes into and out of the TT are too small for a cable with cable stops (ferrules) on it, so I now have the cable housing running without those. I've ordered some Jagwire POP end caps which should allow me to use caps and still have the cable fit in the frame.


----------



## 6thElement

Sloping top tube is the desire, to increase standover.


----------



## MMsRepBike

6thElement said:


> Sloping top tube is the desire, to increase standover.


FR-315 would do you well. I have one but never really rode it because it's not the right kind of geometry for me. Well built frame.


----------



## 6thElement

May be a bit too racey for the recipient. 

I'd like one, but I'm still riding my cheap carbon RS2 frame bought in 2008 in a pedalforce group buy.


----------



## fronesis

6thElement said:


> Sloping top tube is the desire, to increase standover.


Then I highly recommend the FR-315 – stiff, light, well-built, and very comfortable for a bike with a fairly aggressive geometry.

Just saw your follow-up: I also own an RS2, purchased a year ago (and have put 2,500 mile son). Also a great bike, but the FR-315 has some newer frame-design advances (tapered head tube, internal cable routing), is lighter, and is also cheaper than an RS2. I find the FR-315 to be a bit stiffer in the front end than the RS2, but both are very stiff in the BB.


----------



## 6thElement

Thanks, I'll compare the geo's of the FR-315/FR-322 and my RS2 to see which of the FR's could suit her sizing needs.


----------



## fronesis

I found the reach and stack and overall fit between the FR-315 and the RS2 to be *very* similar. But this was in the 57 eTT size range, so I'm not sure about smaller or larger sizes. The size "56" FR-315 has a 565mm eTT; the size "55" RS2 has a 570mm eTT; but the FR-315 actually has *more* reach. 

Good luck to you.


----------



## 6thElement

As hinted the build isn't for me.

I'm on a 55cm RS2, with 57cm ETT. The person I'm building for needs a ~56cm ETT frame. PF don't have the stack and reach figures on their site unfortunately.


----------



## fronesis

6thElement said:


> As hinted the build isn't for me.
> 
> I'm on a 55cm RS2, with 57cm ETT. The person I'm building for needs a ~56cm ETT frame. PF don't have the stack and reach figures on their site unfortunately.


Yes, I understood the fit was for someone else; I just thought my relative fit differences between the two frames might be of help. 

I can calculate specific reach numbers for the RS2 for you, which gives you this:

FR-315 in size "56" (565mm eTT) = 397mm reach
FR-315 in size "54" (550mm eTT) = 388mm reach
RS2 in size "55" (570mm eTT) = 394mm reach
RS2 in size "52" (550mm eTT) = 388mm reach

My guess is that if she's is targeting a 56cm eTT, then she'd probably be better in either of the smaller sized bikes – both of them have a LOT of reach for eTT's of 550mm. 

But maybe her 56cm eTT was based on a bike with a lot of reach (aggressive geometry), in which case the larger sized frames might be better. 

If you have a current frame and geometry you can calculate its reach numbers to see your target. (I now know I need 395mm to 400mm of reach on a frame, and that has made frame fitting a lot easier – well, aside from the standover height issue).

The FR-315 has a shorter head tube and lower stack numbers relative to the RS2 at each size, so the RS2 would work better if she needs a higher stack number.


----------



## 6thElement

fronesis said:


> Info.


Thanks for the RS2 numbers.


----------



## aido78

*Velobuild R-016 - review*

Purchased a R-016 frame from Velobuild and thought I would review here a I've learnt that the Velobuild forum is heavily censored by themselves.

However, I've been very happy with the frame. Quite stiff, chunky BSA BB and smooth ride. I can't fault it from a price point of view. My previous frame was a 2008 DengFu FM-004 (Pinarello copy) which was a good frame but flexed under load.

I'm running 1800g wheels and a mix of 105 + Ultegra for the groupset. I would be very interested in hearing a review from anyone who has a the r-016 with the BB30 and higher spec components.


----------



## Larrysan

Did anyone had imported a bike frame in the last few weeks into the uk and can share the experiences with duty and customs?

Any Problems? Anti Dumping Fee?

Thanks


----------



## syraleo

Anyone have any idea if a genuine pinarello seatpost clamp will fit the greatkeen RFM301 ?

its also "tear" shaped, greatkeen's website seems to be gone, and I need a new clamp cause I somehow managed to destroy the thread in my old one -_-


----------



## ChevyDK

I too wanna know about the clamp compatability.


----------



## KriegRipper

Has anyone had experience with this frame? im probaly going to build it up

New Di2 Road Bicycle Carbon Frame Fork Seatpost Headset 3K BB30 Amazing Frameset | eBay


----------



## NYC_CAAD

Wow! Ill stay clear of S-WORKS. Ill stick with Pinarello F8 by year ends.


----------



## ChevyDK

And why is that?


----------



## DrFragnasty

Before









After :
















*Painting*
The process was pretty simple but paint runs made it more difficult than expected.


Strip the bike,clean it, wet and dry with worn 200 grit to rough up the surface.
Dust off and rag with acetone to remove any residue.
1K grey high fill primer from a can. Wait until fully cured.
2K white gloss, dust coats with 5 mins pause between subsequent coats.
Paint run...expletive. Leave to cure. Sand back paint runs. 
Try spray can white acrylic on top. Orange peel. Expletive. Remove paint with rag, acetone.
Final 2K top coat over. Success! Clean up gun.


Re-assemble while paint still curing and go for a Sunday ride. Got lucky, no ill-effects and 1 week later the finish is rock hard.

Photos don't capture the quality.

Next-up; some sort of artwork.


----------



## bvber

^ You don't like black frame?

Looks like my old bike by the way. 









Bike Nashbar Frame Build - Page 7


----------



## nenekochi

Anyone has ordered the new dengfu fm208 frame ? Any reviews?


----------



## garfunkah

I'm looking for a comfortable road frame for longer rides, such as brevets and the likes.

I'd prefer to buy from dengfu or hungfu, I have friends that recommend both of them, and I'm thinking the dengfu FM029, but I can't find any stack/reach values.

I'm also quite tall, 194cm with 94cm inseam, and that all frames doesn't come in big sizes.


----------



## ub4000

nenekochi I just received this morning, my FM208 from Dengfu, at first blush it looks really well built, packing was really well done. Size 52 Frame came in at 922 Grammes, the Fork (uncut) is at 376 Grammes. I'll let you know how the build goes and how it rides.


----------



## Ufdah

Looking for a frame for my disproportioned body... I'm 6'3" with long legs, 94cm cycling inseam and a shortish torso. I'm looking to build up a new bike and I'm having a hard time figuring out which frame would fit me the best. I'm currently on the Nashbar Carbon Road Bike size Large which is too long in the top tube (582mm) with a too short head tube (165mm). I ran all the numbers on the Competitive Cyclist fit calculator and it came up with a pretty unique bike... here are the suggestions:

Top Tube = 540mm
Seat Tube = 630mm
Stem = 115mm
Saddle Setback = 9cm
Seatpost type = Setback

As you can see the suggested top tube is MUCH shorter than the seat tube and generally speaking most bikes are built the opposite. My current Nashbar is 22mm longer in the ETT than the seat tube. What I'm seeing is that "endurance" bike geometry seems to be the closest to my natural fit. Do you have any suggestions as to what frames I should be looking at? Something short on the top tube and tall...

The closest thing I've found is the Carbonality Talia Disc size 570mm which seems like it might work pretty good. It's 25mm taller on the head tube than my Nashbar (190mm vs 165mm) and 18mm shorter ETT (@565mm), I still will probably need a 80mm or 90mm stem to get my bar distance correct but that shouldn't be too big of a deal.

I live/ride in Durango, CO and do a lot of climbing and descending. Not planning to race competitively but I really enjoy pushing myself and seeing how far up the Strava ranks I can go. I'm also quite interested in disc, I know that many will cringe at that but it is what it is. Resale value plus I'm quite sure it's the future of road and since I don't have any other road gear (I'll be selling the Nashbar bike) I may as well start out in that direction. I'm not stuck on disc though so if there's a frame that would fit better please let me know! Thanks!


----------



## Tswifty

ub4000 said:


> nenekochi I just received this morning, my FM208 from Dengfu, at first blush it looks really well built, packing was really well done. Size 52 Frame came in at 922 Grammes, the Fork (uncut) is at 376 Grammes. I'll let you know how the build goes and how it rides.


Sounds good mate. Im keen to hear your review.


----------



## 00Garza

Ufdah said:


> Looking for a frame for my disproportioned body... I'm 6'3" with long legs, 94cm cycling inseam and a shortish torso. I'm looking to build up a new bike and I'm having a hard time figuring out which frame would fit me the best. I'm currently on the Nashbar Carbon Road Bike size Large which is too long in the top tube (582mm) with a too short head tube (165mm). I ran all the numbers on the Competitive Cyclist fit calculator and it came up with a pretty unique bike... here are the suggestions:
> 
> Top Tube = 540mm
> Seat Tube = 630mm
> Stem = 115mm
> Saddle Setback = 9cm
> Seatpost type = Setback
> 
> The closest thing I've found is the Carbonality Talia Disc size 570mm which seems like it might work pretty good. It's 25mm taller on the head tube than my Nashbar (190mm vs 165mm) and 18mm shorter ETT (@565mm), I still will probably need a 80mm or 90mm stem to get my bar distance correct but that shouldn't be too big of a deal


That might be your best bet. I'm in the same boat as you. 6'2" with long legs and short torso. My legs want a size 60 but my torso wants a 56. Unfortunately most of the chinese carbon frames are racey as that is what is popular and sells. I'd be interested if anyone else knows of a chinese frame that is more endurance oriented.


----------



## MMsRepBike

00Garza said:


> That might be your best bet. I'm in the same boat as you. 6'2" with long legs and short torso. My legs want a size 60 but my torso wants a 56. Unfortunately most of the chinese carbon frames are racey as that is what is popular and sells. I'd be interested if anyone else knows of a chinese frame that is more endurance oriented.


Velobuild R-016?


----------



## .je

garfunkah said:


> I'm thinking the dengfu FM029, but I can't find any stack/reach values.


I hope this helps, but of the few geo calculators I've seen, this one bb2stem looks the most accurate

for ex. when I put the H2 geometry into it, it returned the stack/reach numbers for that geo, even rounded to the mm. Same for Spec and cannondale.


----------



## garfunkah

.je said:


> I hope this helps, but of the few geo calculators I've seen, this one bb2stem looks the most accurate
> 
> for ex. when I put the H2 geometry into it, it returned the stack/reach numbers for that geo, even rounded to the mm. Same for Spec and cannondale.


Thanks! I just received a full geometry chart of the size 60 FM029 from Dengfu. Using bb2stem I'm getting stack and reach of 609 and 400. S/R 1.52 should be a lot more comfortable than my current frame which is around 1.43, right?

My saddle height is about 84cm, is a 350mm seat post enough, or do I need a 400mm to be safe with the insertion length?

My torso is quite short for my length, but I still have long arms.


----------



## psuambassador

mrbubbles said:


> VeloBuild.com Chinese Carbon Bike Frames Road Bikes, Mountain Bikes, Time Trial and Cyclo-cross bikes. eBay Sellers too.


Mr. Bubbles,

I'm thinking about buying a generic chinese frame shaped after the cervelo s5. What have your experiences been? good or bad? 

Thank you.


----------



## ub4000

Hey nenekochi and Tswifty. I got the FM208 built over the weekend and managed to get in a 40kms ride. To give you a perspective of where I'm coming from, the previous bike is an FM001 and the one before that a '97 Giant TCR.

You cannot even begin to compare the previous bikes to the FM208 which I built up with Ultegra 6800 groupset and RS-81 wheelset. Handling is sweet, the frame is stiff where it needs to be and you can feel that your efforts are being channeled to propel you forward, yet compliant enough to absorb the bumps (mind you I ride in Switzerland on some very sweet roads).

It came supplied with a Neco Headset which had a split crown race and also the upper clip that fits on top of the upper bearing is split so assembly was easy.

Routing the internal cables is also easy as you can remove the cable inlets and outlets and easily route the cable, I just used a small Alen key to fish out the cable.

The areas I feel that can be improved upon are the exit hole (from the bottom bracket area) for the FD. I found the hole was too small and you could either file it to accomodate the cable better or insert one of the long tongue Shimano ferrules to prevent the cable from rubbing against the frame walls (that's the option I went with). 

The other areas I found that could do with improvement are the rear dropouts, because of the beefy chainstays there's not much room to for the quick release lever and I felt it needed to be coaxed into position which while not perfect is definitely not that big a deal .

All in all I'm happy with my FM208, Dengfu were really good through the entire purchase process, frame was shipped within four days of the order and they continued to answer my questions even after the sale had been completed.

I'm really happy with the Ultegra 6800 combination, the combination works real well together.

Complete build including Pedals, Handle bar tape and bottle cages came in at 7.45 KG.


----------



## Tswifty

ub4000 said:


> Hey nenekochi and Tswifty. I got the FM208 built over the weekend and managed to get in a 40kms ride. To give you a perspective of where I'm coming from, the previous bike is an FM001 and the one before that a '97 Giant TCR.
> 
> You cannot even begin to compare the previous bikes to the FM208 which I built up with Ultegra 6800 groupset and RS-81 wheelset. Handling is sweet, the frame is stiff where it needs to be and you can feel that your efforts are being channeled to propel you forward, yet compliant enough to absorb the bumps (mind you I ride in Switzerland on some very sweet roads).
> 
> It came supplied with a Neco Headset which had a split crown race and also the upper clip that fits on top of the upper bearing is split so assembly was easy.
> 
> Routing the internal cables is also easy as you can remove the cable inlets and outlets and easily route the cable, I just used a small Alen key to fish out the cable.
> 
> The areas I feel that can be improved upon are the exit hole (from the bottom bracket area) for the FD. I found the hole was too small and you could either file it to accomodate the cable better or insert one of the long tongue Shimano ferrules to prevent the cable from rubbing against the frame walls (that's the option I went with).
> 
> The other areas I found that could do with improvement are the rear dropouts, because of the beefy chainstays there's not much room to for the quick release lever and I felt it needed to be coaxed into position which while not perfect is definitely not that big a deal .
> 
> All in all I'm happy with my FM208, Dengfu were really good through the entire purchase process, frame was shipped within four days of the order and they continued to answer my questions even after the sale had been completed.
> 
> I'm really happy with the Ultegra 6800 combination, the combination works real well together.
> 
> Complete build including Pedals, Handle bar tape and bottle cages came in at 7.45 KG.


Oh wow solid review  Any pictures?
Also
What are the brakes like? TRP have reviews saying its quite squishy for a lack of better words.


----------



## horvatht

Just finished my new track bike. 
Yoeleo frame and wheels. 
Grand mighty crank 
3t scatto bars. 
Can't wait to ride it.


----------



## ms6073

Nice track bike but should there be that much slack in the chain?


----------



## ChanceG

Has anyone found or seen a smaller women specific frame? I looking to build one up for the misses. She's 5'3" so I think she needs a 48-49cm frame. Looking for something endurance/relaxed style. Any help would be appreciated!


----------



## Ashbringer

more and more frames are building up. and next,let me show you something...







Look at this!


----------



## jjaguar

I've been lurking in this thread awhile, and thought it's time to post. The frame I ordered, an ICAN AERO007, shipped on Monday. I haven't seen too much info about this particular frame. I had been looking at the MC053, and this seems to be an updated version of that frame that addresses some of it's issues, so I decided to take a chance on it.

Here's a few of the pics that they sent me. It has custom paint and decals of my own design, anyone care to guess it's inspiration? "Cerberus" is my own made-up "house brand":























HTFU Technology; the only system guaranteed to make you a stronger rider.  

I'll post again after it arrives and I have a chance to build it up.


----------



## ChevyDK

Ashbringer said:


> more and more frames are building up. and next,let me show you something...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look at this!


Where did you find tha last frame?
It looks Nice.


----------



## meeeeep

Ashbringer said:


> more and more frames are building up. and next,let me show you something...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look at this!


Whooaaaa where did you get the F8 frame from?


----------



## ub4000

Tswifty, the Ultegra 6800 brakes are really nice, the braking feel is different, they're a lot more progressive, once you get a feel for them you will love them. If you get them with the new Polymer coated cables make sure you gently scrape off the coating where the bolt clamps the cable down or it will slip no matter what torque setting you use. By the way with the FM208 frame, I forgot to add that you could thread the gear cables complete with outer casing through the internal routing if you wanted to, or use the metal ferrules supplied and route only the inner cables. 

I still can't get over how well this bike corners in comparison to what I rode before, it makes you attack those bends.

Photos to follow, just having too much fun riding this thing.


----------



## ub4000

meeeeep said:


> Whooaaaa where did you get the F8 frame from?


Man these guys don't hang about, I thought it would be a few months before we saw one of these, do tell where you got it from.


----------



## Cat 3 boy

I've been looking at F8 clones on Aliexpress - I posted a pic but it got lifted by the mods as it had P********* decals.

Anyone ridden one of these yet??


----------



## ChevyDK

Do the F8 clones come in a XL?


----------



## Cat 3 boy

ChevyDK said:


> Do the F8 clones come in a XL?


Well, sizes up to 57.5cm:

2014 Newest F8 Road bike full carbon fibre frame carbon bicycle frame+carbon fork+seatpost+seat clamp+headset Free shipping-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com

I've found 3 sources of this frame, few orders & even less feed back so far, will try to post the geometry up later


----------



## ericTheHalf

Finally! Someone actually has one of the track bikes. Looks good.


----------



## garfunkah

00Garza said:


> That might be your best bet. I'm in the same boat as you. 6'2" with long legs and short torso. My legs want a size 60 but my torso wants a 56. Unfortunately most of the chinese carbon frames are racey as that is what is popular and sells. I'd be interested if anyone else knows of a chinese frame that is more endurance oriented.


I second that. The Talia frame seems like it could work for me as well. Did anyone buy from Carbonality? Can one have them do custom paint?


----------



## fronesis

*FR-602 internal routing nightmare*

Hi all,

I'm building up a flyxii FR-602. On the FR-315 the internal routing was a breeze: push the cable in one end and it comes out the other. 

On this bike I out the cable in at the head tube and it disappears somewhere in the downtube. This is true for FD, RD, and rear brake. 

Ive ve tried starting from the other end - same problem. 

Any help would be much appreciated!!


----------



## pushstart

Fronesis, do a youtube search. I think a popular method is to use string and a vacuum cleaner to pull it through the opening on the other end. (Then pull it through tied to your cable, obviously.)


----------



## MMsRepBike

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA8SPlLaUgA

many videos out there.


----------



## Ashbringer

Cat 3 boy said:


> I've been looking at F8 clones on Aliexpress - I posted a pic but it got lifted by the mods as it had P********* decals.
> 
> Anyone ridden one of these yet??


well,no one has,i think.
this is one of the first batch,and now it's painting.It will be back in few days,and then maybe someone would build it up.
However,as i said,this is the first batch,i think it will take few months before it's on sold.
of cause,it could be ordered now,for $460 without paint,but who wants to be a trier？


----------



## cmdcheshire

Is there a list anywhere of all the codes (e.g. FM001) and what they are similar too? I find it really confusing just to see them in individual posts.


----------



## fronesis

Thanks pushstart and mmsrep!

I finally got them all run again, but that is the LAST time I remove the guides. I had read about how easy the internal cable routing was on the FR-602, and after my experience wit the FR-315 (an older model) I just assumed they were all that easy. 

Last question: *does anyone know where/how to buy replacements for the little white internal plastic guides that the frame comes with?* 

One of these was damaged when the frame arrived (pinched flat from the BB to the RD) and one I messed up. But now that I know I NEED these, I'd like to have some for the next time I need to replace cables on this frame.


----------



## Rmabus

Hello all. I have a question. I just piced up a FM066sl. I have it built up and have probably put in about 150 miles on it so far, some of which was in less than choice weather. I am blown away at the ride quality. Why would I ever go back to a retailer and pay $2K or more?

That said I am running into some minor issues, that I would love some feedback on. The downtube exposed cable guide appears to have gotten a bit roughed up some. As a result my sifting was off some. I pulled it and really gave it a work over, but I can only see this happening often. For what its worth, I simply ran the cables over the guide with no housing or shell tube guide of any kind. Did I screw this up?


----------



## MMsRepBike

fronesis said:


> Thanks pushstart and mmsrep!
> 
> I finally got them all run again, but that is the LAST time I remove the guides. I had read about how easy the internal cable routing was on the FR-602, and after my experience wit the FR-315 (an older model) I just assumed they were all that easy.
> 
> Last question: *does anyone know where/how to buy replacements for the little white internal plastic guides that the frame comes with?*
> 
> One of these was damaged when the frame arrived (pinched flat from the BB to the RD) and one I messed up. But now that I know I NEED these, I'd like to have some for the next time I need to replace cables on this frame.


Well you can buy the tubing. Or if you have some old housing around you can make some. Housing has an inner plastic cable liner with metal wound around it. All you need to do is pull out the center part.


----------



## ub4000

*My FM208*



Tswifty said:


> Oh wow solid review  Any pictures?
> Also
> What are the brakes like? TRP have reviews saying its quite squishy for a lack of better words.


Here's a pic


----------



## InBlack

Just finished off my first bike build for my wife using an FM015 frame and some assorted tiara/105/FSA parts. Overall weight was around 18.25 (still have to get an exact weight after decals).


----------



## PNWnoob

*larger stack frames*

Has anyone built up one of these? : 
950G 54cm Carbon Road Bike Frame Fork Internl Di2 Headset UD Matt Cycling Part | eBay


I'm looking or a frame with a lower standover height and a higher headtube. FR-315 seems good but the frame above has a bit more stack 

Any other suggestions?


----------



## AeroWeenie

InBlack said:


> Just finished off my first bike build for my wife using an FM015 frame and some assorted tiara/105/FSA parts. Overall weight was around 18.25 (still have to get an exact weight after decals).
> 
> View attachment 298808


Looks great!


----------



## Ashbringer

there are only 3 sizes are available now,what a pity


----------



## simnorm

Not a big fan of that frame. I prefer the more classic Geo of the fm066 & fm069


----------



## PauliG

Who is selling that new version chinarello? I only seen oem-carbon with it but they sell branded up (knock off) . Not sure of that sites reputation. Some say its based in Malaysia?


----------



## kiwisimon

you can remove the front fork and then access the front inlet that way, I used a hook in solid wire to fish out some old inner cable forward so i could grab it, thread the new cable from the back hole till it hits the head tube and then tape them together, then pull the old inner cable out through the front hole and the new wire will follow it. Then use outer housing over the new inner cable to run through the whole frame. I hope this makes sense. It was the only way I could get the thing to set up for me. i got one of these


----------



## ChevyDK

PauliG said:


> Who is selling that new version chinarello? I only seen oem-carbon with it but they sell branded up (knock off) . Not sure of that sites reputation. Some say its based in Malaysia?


GKB will have it in a month they say.


----------



## Maglore

Ashbringer said:


> more and more frames are building up.


Does anyone know what frame this is? Looks like the MC053/FM053, but with a few differences.


----------



## Maglore

jjaguar said:


> Here's a few of the pics that they sent me. It has custom paint and decals of my own design, anyone care to guess it's inspiration? "Cerberus" is my own made-up "house brand":
> 
> View attachment 298770
> 
> View attachment 298771
> 
> View attachment 298772
> 
> 
> I'll post again after it arrives and I have a chance to build it up.


Your inspiration was clearly the all dominant Formula 1 Mclaren MP4-4 of 1988.


----------



## Ashbringer

Maglore said:


> Does anyone know what frame this is? Looks like the MC053/FM053, but with a few differences.


 FM186/286,Copied from Avanti Corsa DR


----------



## Cat 3 boy

Ashbringer said:


> View attachment 298829
> 
> View attachment 298830
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there are only 3 sizes are available now,what a pity


This seller has them up to 62cm c to c seat tube:

2015 TDF NEW MODEL T1100 1K weave 950 Naked Red carbon road frame bike frame,F8 frame,free ship-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com


----------



## simnorm

Largest size available is 57,as always it's unlikely that they will offer the largest size on that chart, too little demand


----------



## ChanceG

InBlack said:


> Just finished off my first bike build for my wife using an FM015 frame and some assorted tiara/105/FSA parts. Overall weight was around 18.25 (still have to get an exact weight after decals).
> 
> View attachment 298808


That turned out nice. What size is the frame and how tall is your wife? And did it fit her ok? Thinking about ordering on for my wife as well


----------



## jjaguar

Maglore said:


> Your inspiration was clearly the all dominant Formula 1 Mclaren MP4-4 of 1988.
> 
> View attachment 298874


Yup, you even guessed the specific model. :thumbsup: In fact, at one point while I was working on the design, I had "MP4/4" where "Rule 5" is now, and the Shell name and logo on the chainstay.

Here it is all built up. Shipping was fast, it was shipped from China on Sunday and it already arrived on Thursday.









(P.S. Ignore the length of the steering tube, I'll trim that down once I know my riding position is locked in.)


----------



## AeroWeenie

Anyone buy the fm099 from velobuild? Looks cool


----------



## myhui

jjaguar said:


> Yup, you even guessed the specific model.


The color scheme is from their cigarette manufacturer sponsor.

Marlboro (cigarette) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia










Penske PC-22 driven by Emerson Fittipaldi in 1993.


----------



## Maglore

Ashbringer said:


> FM186/286,Copied from Avanti Corsa DR


Cheers dude. It's a really nice looking frame and I'd love to know how it rides.


----------



## AeroWeenie

Ashbringer said:


> FM186/286,Copied from Avanti Corsa DR


Who makes the frameset?


----------



## Maglore

jjaguar said:


> Yup, you even guessed the specific model. :thumbsup: In fact, at one point while I was working on the design, I had "MP4/4" where "Rule 5" is now, and the Shell name and logo on the chainstay.
> 
> View attachment 298896


Yeah, I'm a total motorsport nerd and it was a bit of an educated guess. If wasn't going to be a Penske Indycar, as they didn't have to run with the 'llllllll's blanking out the 'Marlboro' wording. This only left the Mclaren's and what model of there's was more iconic than the all conquering Senna/Prost Mclaren Honda MP4/4 of 1988?

I think your bike looks great.


----------



## jjaguar

Thanks! Yes, Marlboro used those colors/pattern on everything they sponsored. Somewhat confusingly, they sponsored both McLaren and Alfa Romeo at the same time in F1 in the early-mid 80's. The Alfa's had more red in their livery, but they were still hard to tell apart at a glance.

What makes this specific to F1 in the late 80's to early '90's is the "barcode" logo on the top tube. This time period was when the first European nations were starting to ban tobacco advertising, so McLaren used the barcode in place of the name when racing in those countries. BTW, I used the same font for "Cerberus" as the Marlboro logo, though it is stretched a bit longer to better fit the shape of the downtube.

I'm considering building up a MTB for my wife, and I'm thinking the '88-89 Silk Cut Jaguar for this one...


----------



## kiwisimon

JPS Lotus will keep Senna link and gold on black? Wow!


----------



## Maglore

Or how about a variation of the Rothmans livery as on the Williams FW16? Slightly contentious maybe....


----------



## cmdcheshire

I think a martini themed bike would be really cool.
View attachment 298953


----------



## myhui

We need to wear custom-painted helmets while riding our custom-painted bikes:


----------



## kiwisimon

cmdcheshire said:


> I think a martini themed bike would be really cool.
> View attachment 298953


Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator :-(

Bishop Bikes Pista | Cycle EXIF


----------



## jjaguar

Some good ideas here. The black and gold JPS Lotus cars were always my favorite. Maybe gold pinstriping on just bare, gloss carbon fiber? A couple others are the blue and orange Gulf colors, used on a lot of cars but I'll always associate it with the Porsche 917 at Le Mans, and the blue and red Richard Petty STP colors if you're a NASCAR fan.


----------



## clenbutador

Hey guys, here is the final product of all my planning and design with the VeloBuild R-016. My design changed a lot, and I went from Contador's 2011 Giro/Tour bike to a design based on the Specialized he rode into Paris in 2013.

Quick review: 13.8 lbs as you see it (6.26kg)!!! It rides great, and feels great when pulling hard up a hill. Went on some rough roads today in the rain and it held up very nicely. Just doing small rides right now (3-20 mile rides, and todays 30 mile ride) to try and get a basic fit before fine tuning. I'm having more issues getting the Speedplay Maglia Rosas' dialed in, than anything else. 

My process with Velobuild was excellent and the paint for the price, is amazing($80). Everything was shipped well, and putting it together was a breeze and nothing unusual or questionable.

Hoping after I get the fit correct to remove some cables/housing and spacers. Only issue I had with Velobuild was a seat clamp shipped instead of carbon spacers, due to a website issue they have. They have already sent out the carbon spacers.

Would love to hear what you guys think, if you have any questions, feel free to ask!


----------



## clenbutador

ub4000 said:


> Here's a pic
> 
> View attachment 298803


Where did you find that frame!?!?!


----------



## nsfr1206

I have a question and haven't seen this info anywhere. Where can I find a comparison from Dengfu's frames to other manufacturer's bikes? For instance is FM029 geometry for endurance riding? Is FM098 aggressive racing geometry? Which bikes do they match up with?


----------



## jmomentum

Really nice paint work! Did you design it and they painted? and only $80?


----------



## clenbutador

jmomentum said:


> Really nice paint work! Did you design it and they painted? and only $80?


I loved 2 different Specialized Tarmacs from Contador. The 2011 Giro/Tour bike and this design he rode into Paris last year. If you look up Limited Edition Contador Tarmac you can find a bike similar to this.

I then took photoshop and designed this based on that. Just made the lines wider to make up for not have a brand logo, sent it to VeloBuild and voila! Also made mine matte to stand out. At times I wish I had had it glossed, but I'll live. 

The cost is $50 for a paint and $10 for each additional color. Pretty sweet deal!


----------



## ChevyDK

nsfr1206 said:


> I have a question and haven't seen this info anywhere. Where can I find a comparison from Dengfu's frames to other manufacturer's bikes? For instance is FM029 geometry for endurance riding? Is FM098 aggressive racing geometry? Which bikes do they match up with?


Curious too


----------



## jjaguar

Well, here's a list of frames and their rough equivalents that I put together when I was first looking around. I wouldn't call it definitive or exhaustive, but it's a starting point. I also don't know if all of these frames are still available (the MC053 seems to have been superseded by the AERO007, for example).

MC053 - Scott Foil
FM001 - Pinerello Dogma
ICAN SP-AC058, Miracle Trade MT-MC058 - Specialized Tarmac 
fm098 - Specialized Venge
MT-MC055 - Cervelo S5
FM066 - Cervelo R5
FM069 - BMC TM01
FM039 - Fuji SST


----------



## jjaguar

clenbutador said:


> Hey guys, here is the final product of all my planning and design with the VeloBuild R-016...


Looks good! I like the design. The price of having them do the paint is very reasonable, and IMHO plain, bare carbon fiber looks unfinished to me.


----------



## elvispresley2k

_


clenbutador said:



Hey guys, here is the final product of all my planning and design with the VeloBuild R-016.

Click to expand...

_

Beautiful R-016! I built one too several weeks ago. Mine is just matte black. 

A couple minor issues I encountered: 
•*It took 5 weeks to get the frame. I ordered a 58, which was out of stock. I wish the VB site listed size availability. 
•*I had to sand my seatpost just a little bit to fit the seat-tube. (Not sure this was an issue with frame or seatpost.)


----------



## cansprint

*Caja Rural Seguros Team Bikes Looks close to fm098...*



jjaguar said:


> Well, here's a list of frames and their rough equivalents that I put together when I was first looking around. I wouldn't call it definitive or exhaustive, but it's a starting point. I also don't know if all of these frames are still available (the MC053 seems to have been superseded by the AERO007, for example).
> 
> MC053 - Scott Foil
> FM001 - Pinerello Dogma
> ICAN SP-AC058, Miracle Trade MT-MC058 - Specialized Tarmac
> fm098 - Specialized Venge
> MT-MC055 - Cervelo S5
> FM066 - Cervelo R5
> FM069 - BMC TM01
> FM039 - Fuji SST



I am trying to figure out what these Caja Rural team frames are

Vivelo | Arc RS TEAM EDITION

They look a lot like my fm098 but the seat stays are thinner...
I know they are Vivelo but look like a flybike to me (Dengfu, etc.)
Anyone ?
thanks!


----------



## jlandry

jjaguar said:


> Well, here's a list of frames and their rough equivalents that I put together when I was first looking around. I wouldn't call it definitive or exhaustive, but it's a starting point. I also don't know if all of these frames are still available (the MC053 seems to have been superseded by the AERO007, for example).
> 
> MC053 - Scott Foil
> FM001 - Pinerello Dogma
> ICAN SP-AC058, Miracle Trade MT-MC058 - Specialized Tarmac
> fm098 - Specialized Venge
> MT-MC055 - Cervelo S5
> FM066 - Cervelo R5
> FM069 - BMC TM01
> FM039 - Fuji SST


This is really handy, thanks.


----------



## clenbutador

elvispresley2k said:


> Beautiful R-016! I built one too several weeks ago. Mine is just matte black.
> 
> A couple minor issues I encountered:
> •*It took 5 weeks to get the frame. I ordered a 58, which was out of stock. I wish the VB site listed size availability.
> •*I had to sand my seatpost just a little bit to fit the seat-tube. (Not sure this was an issue with frame or seatpost.)


With paint from the time of final confirmation of design to delivery it took 2 weeks. The shipping only took 4 days! 

I had issues with their website, they don't have carbon spacers for the headset listed on certain browsers. So I was told to order a seat tube clamp and they would ship me the spacers. Unfortunately I got a seat tube clamp and not the spacers. But the spacers are on their way. 

Haven't had issues with the seat tube. The stem was impossible to get on the steerer at first, but without sanding that issue has gone away.


----------



## superx421

I recently purchased a P F8 frame from Andy at CBE....paid the extra fee for the 1K T1000 carbon. Gonna be probably 45 days before I receive it in the USA but that OK, I'm not in a huge hurry. Next thing is....where should I order some 50mm carbon wheels from?????


----------



## Scope

I'm seriously considering the Aero007 from iCan. Can you send me a few picture of your frame? I would really appreciate it.

Thanks either way!


----------



## Tim Mailloux

I am looking for a more endurance orientated frame similar to a Synapse, Roubaix or similar. Something with a taller head tube and more compliant ride. I really like the look if the FM208 and the thin seat stays give me the impression that the ride will be smooth. But the headtube isn't that tall. More along the lines of a Tarmac than a Roubaix.


----------



## jlandry

Hey Mods! Why did you delete my poll?


----------



## BeerTech Alex

*BeerTech Chassis #BT002 & #BT003 Dengfu FM098 Build Thread*

While the BeerTech name may enjoy a storied history of excellence in the field of 1980s BMW E30 race/street/swapped car prowess, the much touted consortium of oft-inebriated individuals' move into the cycling orbit, while limited, has suffered only from a lack of documentation. We seek to alter that record with the forthcoming documentation.

Two individuals, both myself and BeerTech Ian, are moving forward (with a full head of beer steam) with the construction of BeerTech (henceforth known of "BT") 12k CF Dengfu FM098 road bike builds. Labeled BT002 & BT003, this thread shall be the thread of record for the assembly of said machines.

My FM098 56cm frame (BT003) will feature a 2014 Shimano 105 5800 groupset, while Ian's (BT002) 61cm frame will see a DA 7800 group in play. And while I did participate in some hardtail XC racing back in high school, I am a complete novice in the road world; Ian can claim Central Park lappage and Charlotte, NC operation as recent accomplishments.

AAAAAANWAY, 

BT003 thus far:

105 Black groupset = $440 shipped from ribblebike.com
FSA Energy wheels = $200 shipped from eBay
Used Fizik Arione saddle = $70 shipped from eBay

We'll be ordering frames this week, which feature a proprietary livery (Porsche Riviera Blue + BMW Inka Orange) plus our very own BT logo. 









Both builds will include CF seat posts from Dengfu, as well as stems, handlebars, headsets, bottle cages. As quantitative individuals, like many weight weenies, we'll be cataloging (via Excel) the weight specs as well as the financial realities of our respective builds.

Stay tuned.


----------



## ub4000

clenbutador said:


> Where did you find that frame!?!?!


That is a Dengfu FM208. I had a very good experience buying from them (dealt with Tina). They seem to be very professional, product is of good quality, packaging very good and shipping is fast. Ask for Hong Kong EMS for shipping costs a little more but delivery is real quick.

I saw pics of your bike, turned out very nice and very impressive weight, what stem did you use?


----------



## garfunkah

Tim Mailloux said:


> I am looking for a more endurance orientated frame similar to a Synapse, Roubaix or similar. Something with a taller head tube and more compliant ride. I really like the look if the FM208 and the thin seat stays give me the impression that the ride will be smooth. But the headtube isn't that tall. More along the lines of a Tarmac than a Roubaix.


How about the FM029? Should be much like the Trek Madone frames.


----------



## Tim Mailloux

garfunkah said:


> How about the FM029? Should be much like the Trek Madone frames.


Did you mean the FM028? The FM029 has an ISP. I also wouldn't consider the Madone an endurance bike, that's Treks race bike.


----------



## MMsRepBike

jlandry said:


> Hey Mods! Why did you delete my poll?


Probably because you wanted to talk about counterfeit items.
This forum doesn't do counterfeit, in case you weren't aware.


----------



## jjaguar

Scope said:


> I'm seriously considering the Aero007 from iCan. Can you send me a few picture of your frame? I would really appreciate it.
> 
> Thanks either way!


I uploaded some pics of the frame here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157646475334881/

Overall, the build was pretty straightforward. If you have any more questions, let me know.


----------



## jlandry

MMsRepBike said:


> Probably because you wanted to talk about counterfeit items.
> This forum doesn't do counterfeit, in case you weren't aware.


LOL. They're all counterfeit.


----------



## ghettocop

jlandry said:


> LOL. They're all counterfeit.


Someone who gets it!


----------



## Maglore

jlandry said:


> LOL. They're all counterfeit.


What makes you say that?


----------



## jlandry

Maglore said:


> What makes you say that?


Hey guys, I didn't come here to cause $hit alright?

Carry on!


----------



## bvber

jjaguar said:


> I uploaded some pics of the frame here:
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157646475334881/


How is that HTFU technology? I heard that they are hard to break.


----------



## Maglore

jlandry said:


> Hey guys, I didn't come here to cause $hit alright?
> 
> Carry on!


In that case, don't say anything deliberately provocative in the first place.


----------



## jjaguar

bvber said:


> How is that HTFU technology? I heard that they are hard to break.


It's the only system guaranteed to make you a stronger rider.:thumbsup:


----------



## Scope

jjaguar said:


> It's the only system guaranteed to make you a stronger rider.:thumbsup:


Does the frame takes 25mm tires with good clearance? 

Thanks again for the pics!


----------



## jjaguar

^ I'm running 25mm Michelin Krylions and there's plenty of clearance.


----------



## garfunkah

Tim Mailloux said:


> Did you mean the FM028? The FM029 has an ISP. I also wouldn't consider the Madone an endurance bike, that's Treks race bike.


No, I meant the FM029, it's available both with and without ISP. And yes, perhaps it's not an endurance bike, but the H2 geometry is pretty relaxed in comparison to other race bikes.

Perhaps the Talia C? No idea about the vendor though.

Talia C Road Frameset 2014 | Buy Online | Carbonality.com


----------



## skitorski

*Build and Component Specifics Velo Build R-016*

Clenbutador, can you please provide some details on your build, components and weights ? Also any comments regarding your fit and position relative to the type of riding, race, relaxed etc.

For example, which crankset and bottom bracket ? 

Nice ride !!!


----------



## Scope

jjaguar said:


> ^ I'm running 25mm Michelin Krylions and there's plenty of clearance.


How do you like the 2 bolt seat clamp? Is it finicky? Also how is the bb86 bottom bracket? What brand did you use, any squeaking issues?


----------



## jjaguar

Scope said:


> How do you like the 2 bolt seat clamp? Is it finicky? Also how is the bb86 bottom bracket? What brand did you use, any squeaking issues?


It looks like a two-bolt seatpost, but it's a single bolt. It comes with two different sets of clamps too, depending on the size of the rails on the saddle you're using. I've had no problems with it, and no issues with the seatpost slipping, either (I did use carbon paste on it, FYI).

I believe the Aero007 frame is an updated version of the MC053, and one of the changes they've made was to the seatpost clamp. The old frame had a single bolt on the top tube that clamped the post by pressing a wedge onto the front edge of the post, but from build reports I've heard that a lot of guys are having to shim that to keep the post from slipping. This frame has a clamp with two bolts that goes across the back, and it's pretty secure.

I used this bottom bracket, the Shimano Ultegra 6800 BB86 press-fit. I pressed it with a little grease, and there's no creaking yet, but I've only put about 80 miles on the bike so far.


----------



## Scope

jjaguar said:


> It looks like a two-bolt seatpost, but it's a single bolt. It comes with two different sets of clamps too, depending on the size of the rails on the saddle you're using. I've had no problems with it, and no issues with the seatpost slipping, either (I did use carbon paste on it, FYI).
> 
> I believe the Aero007 frame is an updated version of the MC053, and one of the changes they've made was to the seatpost clamp. The old frame had a single bolt on the top tube that clamped the post by pressing a wedge onto the front edge of the post, but from build reports I've heard that a lot of guys are having to shim that to keep the post from slipping. This frame has a clamp with two bolts that goes across the back, and it's pretty secure.
> 
> I used this bottom bracket, the Shimano Ultegra 6800 BB86 press-fit. I pressed it with a little grease, and there's no creaking yet, but I've only put about 80 miles on the bike so far.


Thanks for all the info. Looks like this is the frame for me. This frame with a black 105 5800 groupset = one murdered out bike!

"Rule 8: Valid options Black, Black, Black!"


----------



## nirVELOvana

Scope said:


> ...
> 
> "Rule 8: Valid options Black, Black, Black!"


«_Rule number this_»? «_Rule number that_»? What is up with so many people who ride bikes and their preoccupation with somebody else's «_Rules_», man?

If you really want to start enjoying *your* life, why not try making up *your own* «Rules» and live by them? You dig?

Tsk, tsk! It's like the 60s never even happened 





--- _Sent from my colorfully painted flower powered 68 VW van_ --


----------



## Tim Mailloux

garfunkah said:


> No, I meant the FM029, it's available both with and without ISP. And yes, perhaps it's not an endurance bike, but the H2 geometry is pretty relaxed in comparison to other race bikes.
> 
> Perhaps the Talia C? No idea about the vendor though.
> 
> Talia C Road Frameset 2014 | Buy Online | Carbonality.com


thanks for the clarification on the FM 029 frame and also for bringing the Talia C to my attention. The Talia C & D look promising.


----------



## Scope

nirVELOvana said:


> «_Rule number this_»? «_Rule number that_»? What is up with so many people who ride bikes and their preoccupation with somebody else's «_Rules_», man?
> 
> If you really want to start enjoying *your* life, why not try making up *your own* «Rules» and live by them? You dig?
> 
> Tsk, tsk! It's like the 60s never even happened
> 
> --- _Sent from my colorfully painted flower powered 68 VW van_ --


That's one interpretation, from the guy with "Rule 5" on his self painted frame....

I like the blank canvas of the raw matte carbon. It'll be my bike, the way I want it!


----------



## nirVELOvana

Scope said:


> That's one interpretation, from the guy with "Rule 5" on his self painted frame....
> 
> I like the blank canvas of the raw matte carbon. It'll be my bike, the way I want it!


A blank canvas is a righteous concept pops. That's so — like — au naturel baby. I can dig it.

But «Rule 5»? On _*my* «self painted frame»_? That's news to me.

Where have I got «Rule 5» on _*my* «self painted frame»_?

I think you got me mixed up with some other «_dude_» — dude


----------



## Scope

Lol so didn't look at the author.....


----------



## nirVELOvana

Scope said:


> Lol so didn't look at the author.....


Tain't no big thing, brother. We're all just passengers on the same cosmic bus — and *the man's* forever checking his «Rule» book to see who's got tickets to ride  Freaky-Deaky!


----------



## infes7

clenbutador said:


> Hey guys, here is the final product of all my planning and design with the VeloBuild R-016. My design changed a lot, and I went from Contador's 2011 Giro/Tour bike to a design based on the Specialized he rode into Paris in 2013.
> 
> Quick review: 13.8 lbs as you see it (6.26kg)!!! It rides great, and feels great when pulling hard up a hill. Went on some rough roads today in the rain and it held up very nicely. Just doing small rides right now (3-20 mile rides, and todays 30 mile ride) to try and get a basic fit before fine tuning. I'm having more issues getting the Speedplay Maglia Rosas' dialed in, than anything else.
> 
> My process with Velobuild was excellent and the paint for the price, is amazing($80). Everything was shipped well, and putting it together was a breeze and nothing unusual or questionable.
> 
> Hoping after I get the fit correct to remove some cables/housing and spacers. Only issue I had with Velobuild was a seat clamp shipped instead of carbon spacers, due to a website issue they have. They have already sent out the carbon spacers.
> 
> Would love to hear what you guys think, if you have any questions, feel free to ask!
> View attachment 299054
> View attachment 299055
> View attachment 299056
> View attachment 299057
> View attachment 299058


Mind if I ask which groupset, wheels, and total price? Looking at this frame specifically and wanting to get an idea of cost range.....for science purposes.  for the wife too....lmao


----------



## jjaguar

Alright, I'm the one with "Rule 5" on my bike. The Rules are a bit of tongue-in-cheek fun, taking the piss out of cycling culture. You're not supposed to take them seriously. Just off the top of my head, I can think of three rules I'm breaking: I've got a saddlebag, I've got mountain bike pedals on my road bike, and I don't shave except during tick season. I'm sure if I were to look at the list I'd find a dozen more.


----------



## Scope

jjaguar said:


> Alright, I'm the one with "Rule 5" on my bike. The Rules are a bit of tongue-in-cheek fun, taking the piss out of cycling culture. You're not supposed to take them seriously. Just off the top of my head, I can think of three rules I'm breaking: I've got a saddlebag, I've got mountain bike pedals on my road bike, and I don't shave except during tick season. I'm sure if I were to look at the list I'd find a dozen more.


Maybe I got a bit defensive before when I responded to the other poster's response, maybe... I don't shave and I have spd's on my road bike. If someone internalizes other's so called rules they're just another sheep in the flock!


----------



## nirVELOvana

jjaguar said:


> ...The Rules are a bit of tongue-in-cheek fun, taking the piss out of cycling culture. You're not supposed to take them seriously...


Yeah. I get the whole _tongue in cheek_yness of some «_Rules_». I can do tongue in cheek with the best of them. Believe me.

But there are a lot of «_Rules_» which haven't been assigned numbers yet that a lot of people — _present company not included, of course_ — slavishly conform to for no reason other than, «_Some guy posted it on the internet 20 years ago, so I must obey_» .

Defacto «_Rules_» like:


«_You can never have a decent bike or parts unless you spend over X amount of money_»
«_You can never have a decent bike or parts unless it comes from country Y_»
«_Count on bikes and parts from country Z to inevitably disintegrate right from under you the first pothole you run over_»
«_You are bound by the laws of *The Eternal Brotherhood Of Strangers on Bikes* to wave at every stranger on a bike. If you don't return a wave then that makes you a snob_»
«..._and so on_...»
Nobody here can say they don't know at least a dozen people who take those kind of «_Rules_» *dead seriously*. Not including your good selves in that dirty dozen of course. Right? 

It's insidious «_Rules_» like those — _that I know from personal experience are bogus_ — that I don't cotton to.


----------



## garfunkah

Tim Mailloux said:


> thanks for the clarification on the FM 029 frame and also for bringing the Talia C to my attention. The Talia C & D look promising.


Found another one, the Zhongwei R-026, 850g 2014 Newest Design Carbon Road Bike Frame, View Carbon Road Bike Frame, UIS Product Details from Shenzhen Zhongwei Composite Material Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com


----------



## ChanceG

Just purchased a fm066sl for the wife. It came with a bb30 but need a bb30 adaptor for her gxp cranks. What is the best bang as for as adaptor go, this conversion?


----------



## redstarcap

ChanceG said:


> Just purchased a fm066sl for the wife. It came with a bb30 but need a bb30 adaptor for her gxp cranks. What is the best bang as for as adaptor go, this conversion?










I use this for my shimano crank


----------



## jermleeds

*I have an FM-029*

I realize this is a few days old, but I can weigh in on the FM-029, having had one for a little over a year now. 

It has geometry very similar to a Specialized Roubaix. That was the bike I test rode and liked, and the FM-029 was the closest match. The differences are that the FM-029 has slightly shorter chain stays (by 5mm), and a slightly shorter head tube (by less than a cm, don't recall exactly). Apart from those measurements, it was a ringer for the Roubaix, and not surprisingly I found it to have a similar ride quality. 

So it definitely has what you'd call a relaxed geometry, and I have found it very comfortable for rides up to and including centuries. 

You can look through my comments to see some pictures I posted. 







garfunkah said:


> How about the FM029? Should be much like the Trek Madone frames.


----------



## bvber

garfunkah said:


> Found another one, the Zhongwei R-026, 850g 2014 Newest Design Carbon Road Bike Frame, View Carbon Road Bike Frame, UIS Product Details from Shenzhen Zhongwei Composite Material Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com


That looks a lot like their R-002 frame.


----------



## garfunkah

bvber said:


> That looks a lot like their R-002 frame.


They might look the same, but the geometry is quite different. I'm comparing the largest sizes, the "58". 

R-002: Stack/reach: 571/405
R-026: Stack/reach: 624/391


----------



## ChevyDK

I would like to know more about finding the correct size and geometry (before i buy the next Chinese bike). 
Is there some good sources for that?


----------



## nirVELOvana

ChevyDK said:


> I would like to know more about finding the correct size and geometry (before i buy the next Chinese bike).
> Is there some good sources for that?


The hands down best source for that in my experience has been the website or alibaba/aliexpress store page of the company selling whatever frame I was interested in.

Unless that's a trick question


----------



## PauliG

nirVELOvana said:


> Unless that's a trick question


My take on it is that its not a trick queation. They ask where they can get information on the correct size /fit for them. A sellers website will not provide this.
Op
Two ways;
Professional bike fit/ assessment
Do it yourself using Competitivecyclist.com bike fit or similar


----------



## 00Garza

bvber said:


> That looks a lot like their R-002 frame.


I have an 002, and yeah that looks identical. Either an updated version of the R-002 (its lighter and only comes in different sizes), or they just have the wrong picture up.


----------



## 00Garza

jermleeds said:


> I realize this is a few days old, but I can weigh in on the FM-029, having had one for a little over a year now.
> 
> It has geometry very similar to a Specialized Roubaix. That was the bike I test rode and liked, and the FM-029 was the closest match. The differences are that the FM-029 has slightly shorter chain stays (by 5mm), and a slightly shorter head tube (by less than a cm, don't recall exactly). Apart from those measurements, it was a ringer for the Roubaix, and not surprisingly I found it to have a similar ride quality.
> 
> So it definitely has what you'd call a relaxed geometry, and I have found it very comfortable for rides up to and including centuries.
> 
> You can look through my comments to see some pictures I posted.


Thanks for this review. I have a hard time getting fitted to frames with aggressive geometry, so this might be my next purchase.


----------



## ChevyDK

PauliG said:


> My take on it is that its not a trick queation. They ask where they can get information on the correct size /fit for them. A sellers website will not provide this.
> Op
> Two ways;
> Professional bike fit/ assessment
> Do it yourself using Competitivecyclist.com bike fit or similar


Just what i was looking for, thx m8!


----------



## bvber

00Garza said:


> or they just have the wrong picture up.


That appears to be the case as shown in this.


----------



## garfunkah

Has anyone been in contact with Zhongwei lately? Not getting any response on their email or Skype contacts.


----------



## bvber

I bought my frame 3 months ago from them with email communication method.


----------



## gaff

anyone have experience / builds of any chinese road disc bikes?

Frames - Disc Road Frames - VeloBuild

any ideas what these are open moulds of?


----------



## planetrobbi

Hi there, I built up the LTK115D from longteng bikes also called the VBR 051. Its awesome. My build blog is here Topic: THE HULK ? Disc Carbon Roadie Build | velolounge.com.au

View attachment 299359


----------



## garfunkah

bvber said:


> I bought my frame 3 months ago from them with email communication method.


Want to share the email you used?


----------



## Klaster_1

First time poster here, I'd like to get some advice from you guys.

Recently, I've purchased Hongfu FM079 frame, planning to build it with new 5800 group. The problem is that 50-34 compact crank and front derailleur might be incompatible with frame, judging by SL06's post. Hongfu sales person said that should not be a problem, but she did not seem knowlegable enough. What do you guys think, should I play it safe and go with 52-36, which might be a bit too high for me gear-wise, or risk and try 50-34? Has anyone built FM079 with 50-34 5800/6800 crankset?


----------



## jlandry

planetrobbi said:


> Hi there, I built up the LTK115D from longteng bikes also called the VBR 051. Its awesome. My build blog is here Topic: THE HULK ? Disc Carbon Roadie Build | velolounge.com.au
> 
> View attachment 299359


Great, great job. Especially the paint, you're very skilled.


----------



## pushstart

planetrobbi said:


> Hi there, I built up the LTK115D from longteng bikes also called the VBR 051. Its awesome. My build blog is here Topic: THE HULK ? Disc Carbon Roadie Build | velolounge.com.au


Beautiful build and nice writeup. I built a disc road (Yishun FM145, aka Hongfu FM166) earlier this year, made some similar spec choices, but left it at effectively raw carbon -- hats off to the awesome paint job. It is not my daily/commuter bike, but I have a couple thousand miles on it now and absolutely loving it. Very happy with the purchase experience with Yishun and frame quality. And of course can't imagine going back to rim brakes (especially rim brakes on carbon).


----------



## garfunkah

Hmm, still unable to get a response from Zhongwei. Any other frames available that resembles the Roubaix or the Secteur?

Edit: I'm well aware of the FM028/029, but it's more a Trek H2 than a Roubaix


----------



## Ashbringer

something new


----------



## ChevyDK

Yeah.. I want one in size 58-60 
Where to get that?


----------



## tamblot

hello everyone. This is my first post here after being a visitor for quite sometime. This thread is a big help to me trying to figure out if I go for a custom-painted frame or not.

Today, I am pulling the trigger. Anybody who have already ordered FM296 from Hongfu? So far, the business engagement with them is prompt and professional. I first talked to Jenny then she forwarded to me to their Sales. Rachel was the one who handled all my inquiries and design requirements. So far, I'm impressed by the service.
This is a work in progress and calling it the Black Widow project. Leadtime of my frame is 20 days. Will update my post for the progress.


----------



## PauliG

Ashbringer said:


> something new


Nice bike. What frame, supplier ?

Thanks


----------



## SingaporeSling

Ashbringer said:


> Ashbringer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there are only 3 sizes are available now,what a pity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> meeeeep said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whooaaaa where did you get *the F8 frame* from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cat 3 boy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been looking at *F8 clones* on Aliexpress - I posted a pic but it got lifted by the mods as it had P********* decals.
> 
> Anyone ridden one of these yet??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well,no one has,i think.
> this is one of the first batch,and now it's painting.It will be back in few days,and then maybe someone would build it up.
> However,as i said,this is the first batch,i think it will take few months before it's on sold.
> of cause,it could be ordered now,for $460 without paint,but who wants to be a trier?
Click to expand...

...:thumbsup:


----------



## MMsRepBike

Velocarbon is selling the F8 copies on ebay for those interested.


----------



## SingaporeSling

Hi. I'm new here. Is posting pictures from and/or links to open mold frame suppliers considered an offense on this board?


----------



## garfunkah

SingaporeSling said:


> Hi. I'm new here. Is posting pictures from and/or links to open mold frame suppliers considered an offense on this board?


AFAIK it's ok unless the frame is a branded as a copy of a branded frame.


----------



## SingaporeSling

garfunkah said:


> AFAIK it's ok unless the frame is a branded as a copy of a branded frame.


No. I meant blank open mold frames in their T cell-like as yet unbranded state. I asked because I've lurked here for the last year and it seems kind of arbitrary and inconsistent what is allowed and what is not allowed to be posted on this board. But thanks for the heads up.


----------



## SingaporeSling

Also is anybody else experiencing display problems with this board today? Everytime I load a page it looks like it's been reskinned with a different layout or something. Weirdness.


----------



## PauliG

It might be the way you have it set up. Go to display (top right) and click linear mode.


----------



## SingaporeSling

Been there done that. I am in linear mode already. What I was seeing was not linear mode weirdness. But no biggy. Thanks all the same though.


----------



## ub4000

Ashbringer said:


> something new


Looks awesome!!! What is it like to ride, what's the fit like?


----------



## tamblot

*Hongfu FM296 2014 Frame*

So I made some comparison of the FM296 geometry and specs with two famous brands Z and Y. Table below shows that the FM296 doesn't fall that far from the race/elite geometry. The only measurement that vary a bit is the seat-tube length which I presume differs from where the brand measures theirs or probably Hongfu just cut their seat tube longer. 


*Geometry Comparison (mm)* *FM296**Brand Z**Delta Z**Brand Y**Delta Y*Bike Size535252Seat-Tube Length, B-B Center to Top530.0462-68483-47Top-Tube Length, Horizontal529.0537853910B-B Drop71.572Chain-Stay Length406.0405-14071Seat-Tube Angle (°)74.074074.20.2Head-Tube Angle (°)72.5730.5730.5Fork Rake45.0450-45Trail6256Front-Center574.15761.9-574.1Wheelbase974.6970-4.69761.4Head-Tube Length135.0120-15110-25Reach376.03861039216Stack537526-11519-18

<tbody>

</tbody>


----------



## clothears

Hello there, I've had a search and come up with a blank, but was wondering if anyone here had any experience with the relatively new Velobuild R-055 / Zhongwei Z-CB-R-043 frames? 

My only niggling issue with the frame is that as it's a take on the Cervelo R5/BSA, it also uses a BBright bottom bracket system, requiring a pressfit adapter if you want to use Shimano cranks (which I do). 

Aside from that, it seems like Zhongwei are a decent enough outfit with no big issues as far as I can see frame-wise.


----------



## jerthehair

I have this frame and it builds and rides great - the BBright BB came as part of the frame purchase and I dropped in a DA9000 compact crankset with no issues. Cups mounted flush and there are no creaks or cracks after 3500km so far. Frame in a 54 was 929 grams with 3 colors of paint and rear hanger - complete with Reynolds 46 clinchers and full DA9000 mechanical is 14.65lbs

As far as Zhongwei I have done 6 bikes using their frames - reason being the warranty and service. Lots of uneducated people state Chinese carbon manufactures will not stand behind product, or leave you in the dark if you have issues; not true. Purchased an 026 frame and rode it for 400km before the seat tube exhibited a crack roughly 20mm below the top of the seat mast. Sent pics from a few angles and was told the entire frameset would be replaced under warranty. I paid for shipping (they cut the cost substantially)and had a new frameset in 8 days.

Granted a shop carrying a big brand would not have charged shipping, but it would have taken much longer, involved lots of back and forth between the shop, distributor, and manufacturer. I am building a TT-01 over the winter and I will look no further than Zhongwei.


----------



## clothears

jerthehair said:


> I have this frame and it builds and rides great - the BBright BB came as part of the frame purchase and I dropped in a DA9000 compact crankset with no issues. Cups mounted flush and there are no creaks or cracks after 3500km so far. Frame in a 54 was 929 grams with 3 colors of paint and rear hanger - complete with Reynolds 46 clinchers and full DA9000 mechanical is 14.65lbs
> 
> As far as Zhongwei I have done 6 bikes using their frames - reason being the warranty and service. Lots of uneducated people state Chinese carbon manufactures will not stand behind product, or leave you in the dark if you have issues; not true. Purchased an 026 frame and rode it for 400km before the seat tube exhibited a crack roughly 20mm below the top of the seat mast. Sent pics from a few angles and was told the entire frameset would be replaced under warranty. I paid for shipping (they cut the cost substantially)and had a new frameset in 8 days.
> 
> Granted a shop carrying a big brand would not have charged shipping, but it would have taken much longer, involved lots of back and forth between the shop, distributor, and manufacturer. I am building a TT-01 over the winter and I will look no further than Zhongwei.


Great to hear!
Do you have any pics of the bike built up? I'm going to be dull and plump for the stealthy matte UD on everything look, just as it will contrast with my current, rather bright road bike. 
Did you also buy bottle cages from them, too? I'm debating whether to pick up bars/cages as well.


----------



## jerthehair

View attachment 299853


Old bar position straight after build, it been tilted flat and the stem flipped


----------



## garfunkah

jerthehair said:


> As far as Zhongwei I have done 6 bikes using their frames - reason being the warranty and service. Lots of uneducated people state Chinese carbon manufactures will not stand behind product, or leave you in the dark if you have issues; not true. Purchased an 026 frame and rode it for 400km before the seat tube exhibited a crack roughly 20mm below the top of the seat mast. Sent pics from a few angles and was told the entire frameset would be replaced under warranty. I paid for shipping (they cut the cost substantially)and had a new frameset in 8 days.


Do you have any contact information for Zhongwei? I've been trying to get hold of them.

Also, how do you like the 026 frame? It's the one I'm interested in too. Perhaps pictures?


----------



## clothears

jerthehair said:


> View attachment 299853
> 
> Old bar position straight after build, it been tilted flat and the stem flipped


Your attachment isn't showing up for me sadly.



garfunkah said:


> Do you have any contact information for Zhongwei? I've been trying to get hold of them.
> 
> Also, how do you like the 026 frame? It's the one I'm interested in too. Perhaps pictures?


I'm currently speaking with Caroline Xie at this address - carolinexie<wbr style="color: rgb(119, 119, 119); font-family: 'normal arial', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;">@carbon-bicycle-parts.cn


----------



## garfunkah

clothears said:


> I'm currently speaking with Caroline Xie at this address - carolinexie<wbr style="color: rgb(119, 119, 119); font-family: 'normal arial', sans-serif; font-size: 12px;">@carbon-bicycle-parts.cn


Thanks, was very quick to respond. However, she told they are having quality problems with the 026-frame and that they are not selling it at the moment


----------



## clothears

Better that than selling you a sub-par frame. It actually proves they do have a QC procedure and defined standards, quite the contrary to what some people say about Chinese producers.


----------



## meeeeep

Whoa whoa whoa do you realise what you're saying? That means the argument that you should only buy overpriced name brand carbon frame has been weakened.


----------



## SingaporeSling

meeeeep said:


> Whoa whoa whoa do you realise what you're saying? That means the argument that you should only buy overpriced name brand carbon frame has been weakened.


You have truly been enlightened with 'The Way Of The Taobao Temple' Grasshopper. At last your time has come. :thumbsup:


----------



## garfunkah

clothears said:


> Better that than selling you a sub-par frame. It actually proves they do have a QC procedure and defined standards, quite the contrary to what some people say about Chinese producers.


Of course it's a good thing, it's just a bummer when I finally find a frame with a Roubaix-like geometry.


----------



## SingaporeSling

clothears said:


> Better that than selling you a sub-par frame. It actually proves they do have a QC procedure and defined standards, quite the contrary to what some people say about Chinese producers.





jerthehair said:


> ...
> Lots of uneducated people state Chinese carbon manufactures will not stand behind product, or leave you in the dark if you have issues; not true.
> ...


+2 :thumbsup:

There is a long, rich history behind the bike industry in 'The Kingdom of Bicycles' about which a lot of those uneducated people would prefer the western bike buying public not know. For fear such enlightenment would negatively affect their bottom line.

_Things like this for example_.



> *The Flying Pigeon*
> ...
> In April 1949, Chairman Mao's heir apparent, vice president Liu Shaoqi paid a visit to the [Changho Works] factory and commanded that it become the first bicycle manufacturer in New China. Their workers were tasked to build a generation of strong, durable, light and beautiful bicycles for the New China.
> ...
> The Flying Pigeon was at the forefront of the bicycle phenomenon in the People’s Republic of China. The vehicle was the government approved form of transport, and the nation became known as zixingche wang guo, *The Kingdom of Bicycles*. A bicycle was regarded as one of the three "must-haves" of every citizen, alongside a sewing machine and watch - essential items in life that also offered a hint of wealth. The Flying Pigeon bicycle became a symbol of an egalitarian social system that promised little comfort but a reliable ride through life.
> ...


That's why anytime I come across people that try to demonize every single Chinese bike company in the world or people who try to tar all Chinese bike companies with the same brush, I always follow the money. And it is almost always the ones who have some kind of vested interest or another in the European or North American bike industry.


----------



## GarminEdge705

Finally Finished


----------



## garfunkah

None of the attachments seems to work.

Edit: Works now, nice bike


----------



## DrFragnasty

Hi GarminEdge7,
Great result, it's unique.


----------



## ms6073

meeeeep said:


> garfunkah said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...she told they are having quality problems with the 026-frame and that they are not selling it at the moment
> 
> 
> 
> Whoa whoa whoa do you realise what you're saying? That means the argument that you should only buy overpriced name brand carbon frame has been weakened.
Click to expand...

Well that is one way to look at it. So as the owner of a number of Chinese open mold framesets the past 4-years, the following is is not meant to fan flames. My take is that since the company in question most likely represents/resells the frames for the manufacturer, I suspect the more likely scenario is that the trading company has had a significant percentage of the frames reported/returned due to said quality problems!


----------



## VQuick

Saad, did you post about riding your Feel R5 yet? Don't see anything from you since about June. I'm curious!


----------



## SingaporeSling

saad said:


> Build Update.
> 
> Pardon the spacers, will need to be cut properly later, this was just a quickie:
> ...


I am curious about the Feel R5 too.

Did I also miss the update on this one?



MMsRepBike said:


> Oh I have a close eye on the clock. I won't let the time period lapse without a resolution. I have 90 days of time to reach an amicable solution before I issue a chargeback. It seems that's what's going to happen but we'll see.


----------



## MMsRepBike

Mine was a disaster.

The frame was very poor quality. Inside the headtube was all busted, the holes for the plugs for the cabling were oversized and ragged. There's no way that frame could have handled mechanical shifting. There were large paint drips in the headtube preventing the bearing from going in and the fork's dropout had to be filed down to even get a wheel into it. Overall it was just a crap quality mistake frame that never should have been sent to anyone and they tried ripping me off with it. It wasn't even worth getting repainted.

That crap was sent back and I'm never dealing with that rude and horrible company again. I strongly suggest you stay away. saad seemed happy with his though.


----------



## garfunkah

MMsRepBike said:


> Mine was a disaster.
> 
> The frame was very poor quality. Inside the headtube was all busted, the holes for the plugs for the cabling were oversized and ragged. There's no way that frame could have handled mechanical shifting. There were large paint drips in the headtube preventing the bearing from going in and the fork's dropout had to be filed down to even get a wheel into it. Overall it was just a crap quality mistake frame that never should have been sent to anyone and they tried ripping me off with it. It wasn't even worth getting repainted.
> 
> That crap was sent back and I'm never dealing with that rude and horrible company again. I strongly suggest you stay away. saad seemed happy with his though.


And what company would that be?


----------



## MMsRepBike

Feel bicycle.


----------



## nirVELOvana

I've been piece mealing together a review, herein, of my _2014.«R5».Projekt。。。_

This won't be one of those nanogram-by-nanogram ledgers accounting for the weights of each screw and bolt such as those I've seen on other forums — on the grounds that such obsessive behavior is a symptom of a full-blown clinical disorder in my opinion. Certain compulsions should be cured — not encouraged. Suffice it to say — _my «R5»_ is the lightest bike of the 4 road bikes I own. 

Here are some observations that I jotted down in my journal after some of my recent rides — totaling about 700 miles so far. In no particular order:


_The $10 Ginyea headset_ is faultless
The $5 aliexpress bar tape is faultless. Remarkably comfy and easy to clean
The compact bars (_Reach: 77mm — Drop: 123mm_) are a godsend
The FSA BBright bottom bracket is faultless
The second-hand — _but unused_ — SRAM chain rings with FSA's BBRight cranks are faultless 
The microSHIFT shifters and derailleurs are faultless
The seat post and Ginyea seat post clamp are faultless
○ I was pleasantly surprised that the seat post stays put by just the torque of the clamp — even having not used carbon assembly paste as I'd anticipated I would. But I'm a relatively light dude weight-wise. So...​
_The $25 no-name brakes_ are faultless 
The $15 aliexpress seat is just as comfortable on my 17 mile each way commute as is the Specialized BG model from which it takes it's cue. With each ride, I'm becoming more and more convinced that this budget seat might be even more comfortable than the 3 fizik seats I have on other bikes
○ I have on another bike the genuine Specialized BG model on which this budget seat was based — so I do have a first-hand frame of reference for comparison​
On perfectly smooth road surfaces, the bike is so quiet that on early morning rides I'm forever coming within a hair's width from squirrels, rabbits or crows sitting with their backs to me along the side of the road, before they finally realize something is stealthily barrelling toward them from behind. Oh what fun to see them scurry in my wake! 
For some reason (_partly because of the compact bars I suspect_) I feel more compelled to ride in the drops in comparison to my other 3 road bikes
○ one of those 3 has an identical geometry, idential stem and identical bars​
It always _*feels*_ as if I'm going faster that what _my Polar CS100_ tells me
○ I haven't concluded whether that's a pro or a con​

Another thing is — _though not directly ride-related, but still remarkable_ — outside, the colors look precisely like the Pantone digital proofs that I had a local printer print out for me for reference. But in the house — _in the stand directly underneath the two 10w CFLs in my living room_ — the green looks closer to the color of the inside of a ripe avocado. And the yellow is practically invisible under indoor lighting. I find that fascinating. I know colors typically look diffent depending on the lighting. But I've never noticed such *extreme* differences in indoor color and outdoor color on *anything* before. Its almost like getting two paint jobs for the price of one!

The «_faults_» that I've observed so far are faults for which I take the blame:


Because I forgot to put those little clear rubber protective sleeves on the external run of the cable housing at the head tube, the cables touching the head tube make a «_ticking_» noise when I'm on less that perfectly smooth roads 
Because I left the inner bit inside the valve of the tube before installing the 60mm valve extender, it's kind of tricky (_but not impossible_) to get the tires up to maximum pressure
On the plus side however, the lower tire pressure makes for a relatively more cushiony ride
In my haste to get on the road, I didn't pay close enough attention when I put the bar tape on — resulting in a slight asymetry in the amount of untaped bar. But I'm not anal enough to care
○ because I sometimes affix my headlight to one or the other sides of that area of the bar, its not a big deal anyway​

The bottom line is, _my «R5»_ is super fun to ride. For whatever reason, I feel remarkably more confident riding this one in comparison to my other 3 road bikes. Since I mainly ride for the simple fun of riding a bike — that is to say, not to compete with anybody; not to prove my bike riding prowess to anybody; not out of slavish, unquestioning conformity to anybody else's «_Rules_»; not as a symbol of my financial status; not out of any phony altruism — just out of my love for simple, good, clean fun. 

I am majorly in awe at the riding characteristics that the frame's engineers imparted with their technical design and production. But the thing that I find *the most fun* as I ride it, is knowing that I'm the only person in the world with the particular individualized graphics that I've gone for. For that reason above any other, this bike is perfect. For *me*. 

I [SUB]







[/SUB]it!


----------



## ub4000

Sorry to hear about your experience. Mine was not stellar but nowhere as bad as yours. I bought the same frame too and while trying to install the lower headset bearing, the bearing broke, so I ordered a new headset and fork from them as I had sanded the fork quite a bit to try and fit the bearing and felt it was smarter to just replace it with a new one..

I have not assembled it since as I'm waiting to sell an older bike before building this one up, but I did install the bearing and tried on wheels to compare the geometry, I did not have any of the problems you mentioned with the second headset and fork.

I also did not notice any problems with any of the cutouts you mentioned and on the whole the frame quality looked quite good to me. So it really saddens me to hear of your experience with them trying to pass on "dud" Frame to you, shame really.

I must say that at the same time I bought an FM208 Frame from Dengfu and the whole experience was much nicer, I would definitely buy from Dengfu again. As far as Feel is concerned I think that it's a relatively small company with a small turnover and as such they are unwilling/unable to resolve issues to a customer's satisfaction, I guess when they only make a small %, replacing a frame might wipe out profits from 10 frames and they simply don't have the funds to make those losses, kind of short sighted as they lose a lot more from the bad PR. It took them forever to do my custom paint, but the result was very good, instead of a matte clear coat finish they suggested a matte black and it really looks nice. As soon as I sell one of my older bikes I'll build this one up and let you know how it went and how it rides.



MMsRepBike said:


> Mine was a disaster.
> 
> The frame was very poor quality. Inside the headtube was all busted, the holes for the plugs for the cabling were oversized and ragged. There's no way that frame could have handled mechanical shifting. There were large paint drips in the headtube preventing the bearing from going in and the fork's dropout had to be filed down to even get a wheel into it. Overall it was just a crap quality mistake frame that never should have been sent to anyone and they tried ripping me off with it. It wasn't even worth getting repainted.
> 
> That crap was sent back and I'm never dealing with that rude and horrible company again. I strongly suggest you stay away. saad seemed happy with his though.


----------



## nirVELOvana

clothears said:


> Hello there, I've had a search and come up with a blank, but was wondering if anyone here had any experience with the relatively new Velobuild R-055 / Zhongwei Z-CB-R-043 frames?
> 
> My only niggling issue with the frame is that as it's a take on the Cervelo R5/BSA, it also uses a BBright bottom bracket system, requiring a pressfit adapter if you want to use Shimano cranks (which I do).
> 
> Aside from that, it seems like Zhongwei are a decent enough outfit with no big issues as far as I can see frame-wise.


You will be majorly impressed with Zhongwei. Caroline Xie «[email protected]» was my gal too. Or my good bud Thomas Tong «[email protected]». Or Vera «[email protected]» is awesome too. She filled in for Caroline a couple times during my order.

Although I wasn't expecting one — _because I hadn't ordered it_ — _my «R5» _ came with _this BBRight-to-Shimano adapter_. Except I'm using an actual BBRight bb and FSA's BBright-branded cranks. But the bb that comes with looks impressively well made. I turned around and sold it on craigs list and fetched a clear $20 profit :thumbsup:

I recommend you bypass the middleman and deal with Zhongwei directly. You won't regret it. They will look after you real good. You'll not only get a better deal but you'll also shorten response times by eliminating one less layer of indirection going the velobuild route.


----------



## palox

Hey guys,

i love this thread! I spend the last evenings reading and reading... But now I have a plan and I need your input:

As a frame I want to go wiht the LTK115-D. It looks great and uses Breakdiscs. Does anyone have experience with LT bikes?

For rims I want to go for those: http://www.dengfubikes.com/product/detail.php?id=123
Can you maybe help me with the decision with the spokes and hubs? Is the chinese stuff allright, or should I buy some "brands"?

Thanks for an answer!


----------



## nirVELOvana

palox said:


> Hey guys,
> 。。。
> Can you maybe help me with the decision with the spokes and hubs? Is the chinese stuff allright, or should I buy some "brands"?
> 。。。


Hey dude. Jump on in. The water's fine :thumbsup:

I can't vouch first hand for _those specific wheels_ personally because I've never bought anything from Dengfu. But thousands of others here have, however. 

In any case — _whether it's Dengfu, Zhongwei, Feel or whomever_ — you should still always exercise due diligence and ask as many questions up front — _and allay any and all doubts you have_ — *before* you send them any money. That's just _Online Shopping 101_ material there.

I couldn't find any info on which hubs or spokes come with _those wheels on the page you linked to_. But I would guess they would more than likely be built with _Novatec Hubs_. Novatec seems to be the default standard hub on the majority of Chinese carbon wheels — _unless you specifically order an upgrade option_. 

«_What Hubs and spokes do I get with these wheels?_» is certainly *one* question *I* might ask them before I pay for something I wasn't expecting to get. Another question I might ask might be, «_What upgrade options are there?_»

I have 3 sets of carbon fiber clinchers — each pair has _Novatec hubs_. I don't recall off the top of my head any details on the spokes. But overall, I can't find any fault with either the _Novatec hubs_ nor the spokes. The build quality of my 3 pair and how they perform in general impresses the pants off of me.

I'm of the opinion that with everything bike related, a person's ultimate decision about what they choose to buy, should *not* be made by a committee. It should go without saying。。。But only *you* know what *your* specific requirements are and what *your* budget is. So ultimately the decision is *yours* to make. Not us guys.


----------



## Vee

The problem I see is that you mention a frame with disc brackes and then show us a set of clincher wheels. They won't work together, so you will need to revise your plan.



palox said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> i love this thread! I spend the last evenings reading and reading... But now I have a plan and I need your input:
> 
> As a frame I want to go wiht the LTK115-D. It looks great and uses Breakdiscs. Does anyone have experience with LT bikes?
> 
> For rims I want to go for those: http://www.dengfubikes.com/product/detail.php?id=123
> Can you maybe help me with the decision with the spokes and hubs? Is the chinese stuff allright, or should I buy some "brands"?
> 
> Thanks for an answer!


----------



## palox

Hey nirVELOvana, Thanks for the answer. I will certainly ask some more questions before I order. I just hoped for a little input because I don't have an overview of the Chinese market.

@ Vee: I'm not experienced with breakdiscs and I never heard of any problems. Can you specify what you mean and help me out?
thanks in advance!


----------



## nirVELOvana

palox said:


> Hey nirVELOvana, Thanks for the answer。。。


Bitte schön.

You'll probably wanna lurk around _the Chinese Carbon Wheels sub-forum_ for a while too。。。


----------



## palox

So obvious, that I'm from Germany? 

I'll check.. Thx


----------



## Vee

palox said:


> Hey nirVELOvana, Thanks for the answer. I will certainly ask some more questions before I order. I just hoped for a little input because I don't have an overview of the Chinese market.
> 
> @ Vee: I'm not experienced with breakdiscs and I never heard of any problems. Can you specify what you mean and help me out?
> thanks in advance!


The wheels you linked are clincher wheels which utilize caliper brakes. The frame you linked accommodates disc brakes. These two items are not compatible with one another.


----------



## nirVELOvana

palox said:


> So obvious, that I'm from Germany?
> 
> I'll check.. Thx


Sorry. No. There was nothing obvious that you said  I just happened to notice that your original link contained an «_encoded_ _reference_» to a German web mail provider. My line of work conditions me to see that kind of thing. Force of habit. Plus I gotta practice my Deutsch on somebody. You know? Use it or lose it 

_Here's another Novatec resource_ if you're interested,

Tschüss :thumbsup:


----------



## pushstart

Vee said:


> The wheels you linked are clincher wheels which utilize caliper brakes. The frame you linked accommodates disc brakes. These two items are not compatible with one another.


It is true he linked to rim-brake wheels, but he did say he was looking at those *rims*, so hopefully he knows he need disc-brake hubs. I suspect he does, despite the "breakdisc" references. 

There is nothing about a *clincher* that is incompatible with disc brakes, though; the question is simply whether the hubs are disc hubs.

I haven't followed then previous links, but the Novatec D711/712 hubs with the Japanese bearings seem pretty solid. I have a set with ~2k miles no issues (yet). I also have had good experience with BHS hubs. I had one issue with a disc-brake rear hub, but another hubset with 13k miles and still rolling great.

And of course Hope Pro II Evo hubs, DT Swiss 240 or 350 etc. etc.


----------



## palox

Hey pushstart, thanks for the clarifiaction. I thought I missed something 

I need break disc hubs and they are a little bit wider than the usual (135mm), but as I thought there are no limitations regarding the rim itself (Wheel = rim + spokes + hub + tire)

So we are getting a little off topic here, but can you recommend me a chinese brand, that sells wheels with breakdisc hubs? On their websites (farsports, yoeleo, dengfu,etc.) they often mention it, but they usually have no product shown. So I wrote a couple of emails, waiting for a reply. If I have further questions I will go to chinese Carbon wheel thread (As far as I am, I think it is a really good idea NOT to break on the rim flanks, for durability reasons)


----------



## nirVELOvana

Grüß Gott 

I know nothing at all about disc brakes. But this might help get you on your way to becoming your own expert on sourcing yourself some。。。


_Disc Brake Expert Primer #1_
_Disc Brake Expert Primer #2_

Let us know if you find anything good?


----------



## clothears

nirVELOvana said:


> You will be majorly impressed with Zhongwei. Caroline Xie «[email protected]» was my gal too. Or my good bud Thomas Tong «[email protected]». Or Vera «[email protected]» is awesome too. She filled in for Caroline a couple times during my order.
> 
> Although I wasn't expecting one — _because I hadn't ordered it_ — _my «R5» _ came with _this BBRight-to-Shimano adapter_. Except I'm using an actual BBRight bb and FSA's BBright-branded cranks. But the bb that comes with looks impressively well made. I turned around and sold it on craigs list and fetched a clear $20 profit :thumbsup:
> 
> I recommend you bypass the middleman and deal with Zhongwei directly. You won't regret it. They will look after you real good. You'll not only get a better deal but you'll also shorten response times by eliminating one less layer of indirection going the velobuild route.


Thanks! I'd decided already on bypassing the middleman, but it took a little while to find the frame thanks to it being rebranded as the R-043 from R-055. I guess that's due to the Velobuild connection - you search for R-055 and you go straight to the Velobuild site.

Timely replies to my emails, photos of different bits and bobs to help clarify things, and a great price overall. 

Now all I have to do is wait for the frame to get here!


----------



## pushstart

palox said:


> So we are getting a little off topic here, but can you recommend me a chinese brand, that sells wheels with breakdisc hubs? On their websites (farsports, yoeleo, dengfu,etc.) they often mention it, but they usually have no product shown.


Sure. I know Farsports sells some -- usually these are classified under "cyclocross". I built a wheelset using LightBicycle U45 rims. They (LB) also will sell complete wheels for disc brake bikes. The rims come without a brake track and look great (and work great).


----------



## palox

Very nice, I found them.
I also recognized, that yoeleo has two websites and just one is working properly: Bicycle - Carbon Bike - Bike Wheels - Bike Frames Yoeleo

Another question. I need a source for a good an very light TT/Triathlon Handlebar. My bike will be around 7,7 kg (theoretical; with Ultegra DI2, breakdiscs and heavy ~700g handlebar) and I want to spare some gramms.


----------



## jermleeds

*my experience with the FM-029*



Tim Mailloux said:


> thanks for the clarification on the FM 029 frame and also for bringing the Talia C to my attention. The Talia C & D look promising.


I've had a FM-029 for 18 months now. It is very Roubaix-like. I test rode a Roubaix, it was the bike whose characteristics I was trying to emulate when I bought the FM-029. Geometry is very similar; the FM-029 has slightly shorter chainstays and headtube. The geometry is unmistakably relaxed. I've done a number of centuries on it, about 3k miles overall. It's very comfortable for endurance type riding. Have a look back through my comments for pictures and more detail.


----------



## garfunkah

jermleeds said:


> I've had a FM-029 for 18 months now. It is very Roubaix-like. I test rode a Roubaix, it was the bike whose characteristics I was trying to emulate when I bought the FM-029. Geometry is very similar; the FM-029 has slightly shorter chainstays and headtube. The geometry is unmistakably relaxed. I've done a number of centuries on it, about 3k miles overall. It's very comfortable for endurance type riding. Have a look back through my comments for pictures and more detail.


What frame sizes? The FM-029 should be a little more relaxed than a regular racebike frame, but nearly not as relaxed as a Roubaix. This is from strictly looking the stack/reach-measurements though 

Where did you buy the FM-029 btw? I've seen a slightly different geometries from a couple of different vendors. The above is based on Dengfu.


----------



## roadbug

Hi. Just a bit of background before I ask my questions. I was handed down a road bike earlier this year by a friend, a Giant TCR 2 CD20 with tiagra components. I love the bike to the point I started commuting on it almost every day to work. I think I've fallen in love with cycling because of this. Albeit, I feel the size was a bit too big for me with a top tube of 57. Though I'm comfortable riding it, (maybe because I've became used to it) I know that it's not the right size for me. 

So I wanted a new ride with the best bang for my buck, and at the same time the right (or almost there) bike fit for me. Thus the carbon frame from china was the best possible option I can reasonably think of.

A quick google led me at a bike fit calculator that says I am supposed to ride a "competitive" bike with:
Top tube length : 52.1 - 52.5
Tube range : 50.0 - 50.6
(I am a bit short legged at 175cm tall.)

1. How accurate are these bike fit calculators? (I know some will say that I should do a proper human bike fit, but in a country where I am, it's just ridiculously expensive).

2. What frame would you recommend I ride? I prefer a balance between comfort and speed/power. (I have signed up for a duathlon which is happening just before the year ends)

3. Any help with the build project is very highly appreciated. I think I can settle with the new shimano 105 (5800) groupset.

I will have the LBS assemble the whole thing for me. 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## zender

Since I don't know where you are located, I'm not sure what kind of shop access you have. But, if you are buying everything new to build a bike using Chinese carbon and having a local shop build it, it's going to cost you more than if you just picked up a 105 equipped carbon bike from the shop. The thing is, bars, post, seat, stem, cables, bar tape, headset spacers, wheels, tires add up fast. The huge advantage of buying from the shop is you can be sure the bike fits you. The advantage of picking your own parts is you can get exactly what you want on every part. A secondary advantage might be that you would learn how to build a bike, but if a shop is doing it that's a non-issue. (And if you do decide to do it yourself, you also need to budget for a few specialized tools.

That said, I'm guessing you used competitive cyclist's fit calculator. It's quite good if you measured everything correctly.


----------



## Fed_Tom

Hey guys. New member here. Joined to ask a question, hope you all don't mind. Long story short; my Bianchi was stolen at the start of the year so I built a new bike based around a CarbonZone frame. 










My issue lies with the supplied cable guide/stops. They do not stop the outer cable, meaning that my gears and rear brake either don't work properly, or at all. I've been in touch with CarbonZone for a while and they even sent me some replacement stops which still have the same issue. They're fairly adamant that I'm doing something wrong here and have told me to simply use a "thicker cable cap" to solve the issue. This is after having sent them numerous photos showing what the problem was, even including pictures of a Specialized stop which works. 

Chinese cable guide/stop:










With an endcap to prove it goes all the way through:










This is what I need:




















I can't use the Specialized one as it is the wrong size/shape. 

I ordered some of these Jagwire cable guide converters:










but they don't fit inside the frame guides/"stops", unfortunately. 

This is my solution as of right now:










Both unsightly and not ideal functionally. I've drawn up something that I think should work. It's basically the Jagwire thing but a little bit thinner:










But having something machined just because China can't send me a proper part seems a little overkill. 

Basically I'm just looking for a little help. Does anyone know of any way to fix this? I'm going to try drill out one of my spare guides at work tomorrow. Hopefully I can make the Jagwire bits fit. If there are any other things I can try than any input is very much appreciated. 

I hope this all makes at least some sense, I've been stressing out for the past few hours as I've exhausted all my options. 

Thank you in advance.

Tom.


----------



## MMsRepBike

Fed_Tom said:


> Basically I'm just looking for a little help. Does anyone know of any way to fix this? I'm going to try drill out one of my spare guides at work tomorrow. Hopefully I can make the Jagwire bits fit. If there are any other things I can try than any input is very much appreciated.
> 
> I hope this all makes at least some sense, I've been stressing out for the past few hours as I've exhausted all my options.
> 
> Thank you in advance.
> 
> Tom.


You don't need to modify anything. Many bikes come like this. Granted it's a small percentage but it is quite a few. The easiest and most common solution, one which many manufacturers intend, is to run full length housing.

Don't cut the housing to have it enter the frame, just stick the housing through the hole and run it all the way. For the front derailleur, if there's just a small hole where the cable should exit up, you cut the housing and put a long nose ferrule on it, having the long nose part stick up through the small hole. For the rear derailleur the housing will run all the way from the shifter to the derailleur itself.


----------



## California_Dave

I had a similar problem where 1 of the cable stops that was sent with my frame was the wrong type, and this stop did not stop the cable housing from passing through. The vendor I dealt with apologized and sent the correct cable stop, however I did not want to wait for the correct stop to arrive before riding my bike. So my short term solution was to epoxy the housing cap into the cable stop. After waiting for 24 hours for the epoxy to dry, I put the bike together and tried it out. It worked great and I didn't ever replace the cable stop when I received the correct one because there was no longer a problem. So I would give this a shot if you want to ride your bike. Just make sure to only use a little bit of epoxy, smear it on the walls of the cable stop, then press in the cable housing cap, and make sure the epoxy is not impinging on the center of the cable housing cap. I used an epoxy that said it was good for both plastic (cable stop) and metal (cable housing cap). Good luck!


----------



## roadbug

Thanks for the reply.

Yep. I used that one. So I would assume it is safe to follow the sizing.

I will be recycling my current fulcrum quattro wheels. The remainders of the giant will be passed down to another friend who insists on paying for it. So that might cut the cost down a bit.

I also dont mind building the bike on my own. Actually, I prefer to build it myself if I can get the help and guidance I need as this would be the first time I am doing this and definitely wont be the last.

Here's what I got on my buying list so far to start up this project not including the tools. I might be able to source out without having to buy a whole lot.

FM029 (frame, fork, seatpost)
Shimano 105 5800 grouppo
OEM Carbon Saddle
OEM Carbon bottle cages
Deda Zero100 Stem+Handlebar
Neco headset

How does this list look like? Anything else I forgot?



zender said:


> Since I don't know where you are located, I'm not sure what kind of shop access you have. But, if you are buying everything new to build a bike using Chinese carbon and having a local shop build it, it's going to cost you more than if you just picked up a 105 equipped carbon bike from the shop. The thing is, bars, post, seat, stem, cables, bar tape, headset spacers, wheels, tires add up fast. The huge advantage of buying from the shop is you can be sure the bike fits you. The advantage of picking your own parts is you can get exactly what you want on every part. A secondary advantage might be that you would learn how to build a bike, but if a shop is doing it that's a non-issue. (And if you do decide to do it yourself, you also need to budget for a few specialized tools.
> 
> That said, I'm guessing you used competitive cyclist's fit calculator. It's quite good if you measured everything correctly.


----------



## squak

Thought I'd share my experience:

Purchase – I was in the market for a new road bike and have been very happy with the Chinese carbon 29er frame I purchased 2 years ago so decided to go that route again. Based on the geometry and appearance I decided to get one of the Cervelo R-Series tribute frames that are available. I shopped around for about a month before deciding to buy from Ebay seller carbon-cycle. Some of the Cervelo tribute frames are closer copies than others and many of them have the same BBright bottom bracket and asymmetrical chainstay design used by Cervelo. I’m not a fan of proprietary press fit bottom brackets and chose the carbon-cycle frame in part because it has a standard BSA bottom bracket shell. Aside from the standard bottom bracket and symmetrical chainstays, the carbon-cycle frame/fork looks nearly identical to the Cervelo R-Series. Carbon-cycle was good about answering my questions, providing additional photos and verifying the frame weight (990 grams for 56cm). After payment was sent I received the frame/fork, seatpost, clamp, and headset in less than a week. Total cost with shipping was $510. 

Finish – Out of the box everything looked great and I was very satisfied with the quality of the finish. Finish is typical UD matte black (a few seams are barely noticeable if you look closely). Carbon-cycle claims to use T800 carbon instead of T700, but I have no way to know for sure. Before the actual build I did a “dry fit” with the seatpost, fork/headset, and wheels to check for any fit or alignment issues. The only apparent issue at this point was with the seatpost, seat tube, clamp interface. The seatpost had a very small amount fore/aft play in the seat tube (before tightening the clamp) and although tightening the clamp eliminated any play, the clamp would close completely before reaching the recommended torque setting. Upon closer inspection I found that the seat tube diameter was within spec, but on the plus side of the range. Also, the carbon-cycle provided clamp is stamped “34” which I assume to mean 34mm. When I installed the post again with a generous layer of Finish Line Fiber Grip and a 31.8mm clamp everything came together perfectly. To their credit, carbon-cycle responded by sending me a “custom” seatpost with extra layers of matt finish to increase the seatpost diameter. The new seatpost fit better, but using Fiber Grip and the correct size clamp seems to have made the biggest difference.

Build – The build went well with no major issues or special challenges. I built the bike with a complete Shimano 6800 mechanical groupset. Internal cable routing was relatively simple because the cable stops are easy to remove and provide a usable sized opening (no special cable routing tricks required). Shifting in the repair stand was good, but on my first few rides I noticed that the chain was reluctant to shift into the smallest cog which turned out to be a derailleur hanger alignment issue. The hanger required a small alignment adjustment and now it shifts perfectly. The complete weight, ready to roll with pedals and bottle cages is 16.5 lbs. Swapping out my old Mavic Ksyriums with carbon hoops would get it under 16 lbs.

My Setup – 56cm frame, 120mm/-10 stem, 5mm spacer below stem, 44cm compact bar, 3” saddle to bar drop, 56cm tip of saddle to center for bar (I’m 6’ tall). 

Ride/Fit – I’ve put almost 800 miles on the bike and so far I’m very happy with the ride. Plenty stiff and responsive for climbing and out the saddle efforts. Noticeably more compliant on rough roads than the aluminum Cannondale that it replaced (duh). Feels very stable on high speed descents. Not a twitchy/quick steering bike and maybe not my first choice for a crit racing bike. I would characterize this bike as bit of a tweener; neither an all out race or endurance bike, but suitable for either. Fit is obviously personal, but so far very comfortable for the 2-3 hour rides I like to do.

View attachment 300279


----------



## Fed_Tom

MMsRepBike said:


> You don't need to modify anything. Many bikes come like this. Granted it's a small percentage but it is quite a few. The easiest and most common solution, one which many manufacturers intend, is to run full length housing.
> 
> Don't cut the housing to have it enter the frame, just stick the housing through the hole and run it all the way. For the front derailleur, if there's just a small hole where the cable should exit up, you cut the housing and put a long nose ferrule on it, having the long nose part stick up through the small hole. For the rear derailleur the housing will run all the way from the shifter to the derailleur itself.


Hey, thanks for the reply. Full length housing works ok (makes it spongy, but whatever) for the brake but due to the way the gear cable is intended to be routed at the BB area full length housing will not work.



California_Dave said:


> I had a similar problem where 1 of the cable stops that was sent with my frame was the wrong type, and this stop did not stop the cable housing from passing through. The vendor I dealt with apologized and sent the correct cable stop, however I did not want to wait for the correct stop to arrive before riding my bike. So my short term solution was to epoxy the housing cap into the cable stop. After waiting for 24 hours for the epoxy to dry, I put the bike together and tried it out. It worked great and I didn't ever replace the cable stop when I received the correct one because there was no longer a problem. So I would give this a shot if you want to ride your bike. Just make sure to only use a little bit of epoxy, smear it on the walls of the cable stop, then press in the cable housing cap, and make sure the epoxy is not impinging on the center of the cable housing cap. I used an epoxy that said it was good for both plastic (cable stop) and metal (cable housing cap). Good luck!


Thanks for the reply! Epoxy was on the list of things to try, though I had doubts of the end cap's ability to hold tension. Does it work ok?


----------



## ms6073

Fed_Tom said:


> Full length housing works ok (makes it spongy, but whatever)


Full length brake cable run with good housing should be effortless. If the brake action is spongy, then your brake cable is meeting resistance somewhere along the run in the housing.


----------



## California_Dave

Fed_Tom said:


> Thanks for the reply! Epoxy was on the list of things to try, though I had doubts of the end cap's ability to hold tension. Does it work ok?


I am using this on my rear derailleur housing and it has held up for 500 miles so far. Epoxy is a cross-linked polymer, so it shouldn't creep (requiring constant adjustment); it will either work or not work.


----------



## Fed_Tom

ms6073 said:


> Full length brake cable run with good housing should be effortless. If the brake action is spongy, then your brake cable is meeting resistance somewhere along the run in the housing.


I'm probably using a shitty outer. Whatever was free from work. 



California_Dave said:


> I am using this on my rear derailleur housing and it has held up for 500 miles so far. Epoxy is a cross-linked polymer, so it shouldn't creep (requiring constant adjustment); it will either work or not work.


So are you guys just epoxying a cable ferrule into the stop? And that's working ok with the cable tension? Just want to make sure before I try it. It takes a long time for these things to show up from China.


----------



## jermleeds

52cm for both. Here's a comparison of the geometry I did:

bike:STTTchainstayST*°*HT*°*HTRoubaix4755374127472145FM-02952053741074.272.8140

<tbody>

</tbody>





Note that I did this in lieu of stack/reach, but the comparison showed that these were quite similar, the biggest difference being the seattube length, reflecting a more sloping top tube for the Roubaix (which shouldn't affect ride characteristics much). 

I got this from Dengfu. 

Hope this helps!



garfunkah said:


> What frame sizes? The FM-029 should be a little more relaxed than a regular racebike frame, but nearly not as relaxed as a Roubaix. This is from strictly looking the stack/reach-measurements though
> 
> Where did you buy the FM-029 btw? I've seen a slightly different geometries from a couple of different vendors. The above is based on Dengfu.


----------



## beno0055

jjaguar said:


> I uploaded some pics of the frame here:
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157646475334881/
> 
> Overall, the build was pretty straightforward. If you have any more questions, let me know.



Hey, love the bike. I hadn't heard about that frame yet, but it looks like just what I need. My questions are more about the paint though. Did ICan do it? How does that go? Would I just find a picture of what I want and for the words or symbols send them vector graphics? What kind of price are their custom paint jobs?

Thanks! Great looking bike, again. So much more personal than the flat black that most people have, plus it honestly makes it look more quality.


----------



## garfunkah

jermleeds said:


> 52cm for both.
> 
> Note that I did this in lieu of stack/reach, but the comparison showed that these were quite similar, the biggest difference being the seattube length, reflecting a more sloping top tube for the Roubaix (which shouldn't affect ride characteristics much).
> 
> I got this from Dengfu.
> 
> Hope this helps!


Thanks. Looks like the 52 is much more alike. Slightly bigger difference on the bigger models.


ModelStackReachRoubaix 58621392FM-029 58595392FM-029 60614399

<tbody>

</tbody>

Guess I really need to testdrive a Roubaix and start from there.


----------



## Fed_Tom

Well, took the bike out for its first ride this morning. Got all of fifteen miles before (I noticed) the chainstay had cracked most of the way around. Brilliant.


----------



## 00Garza

Fed_Tom said:


> Well, took the bike out for its first ride this morning. Got all of fifteen miles before (I noticed) the chainstay had cracked most of the way around. Brilliant.


Wow...sorry to hear about that...and your bianchi. What frame is that? I heard people having this issue with the fm-066sl or other "super light" frames. I hope you can get it replaced or refunded.


----------



## Fed_Tom

It's an FM-011. I wasn't expecting much from this frame but 15 steady miles is a joke to be honest.


----------



## DrFragnasty

Bugger. Thankfully you identified it early.

I suggest definite warranty claim. The photos should be convincing evidence. 

Is it a surface cosmetic crack or does it affect mechanical strength? Does the piece now bend and "creak" if you apply force? If it's simply the cosmetic layer then it's an easy fix assuming you can be bothered. 

The cable outlet is a bit of a pain. Speaking of which, the crack didn't start or finish at the weak cable outlet which might suggest it's a bond failure between tube and lug part. The way some frames are laid up is to make the frame tubes first then then assemble the bits afterwards like an toy aeroplane kit. Resins can often "go off" if they have a short shelf life. It's likely there'll be others in this production run if that's the case.


----------



## roadbug

Whoa! That could be quite a disappointment. But I think you can get a replacement from the seller. I have read quite a few here who didnt have a problem claiming their broken/faulty frames. Makes me hesitate a bit if i should go ahead with my order. Though I feel like my decision has already been made. Haha! Update us what happens.


----------



## myhui

Try this manufacturer instead: http://www.gotobike.com.cn

They have a superior process for carbon fiber agglutination.

I've been riding their WS-02 through hard packed dirt in races and the frame never broke. The shaking was extreme, as I have 50mm deep CF wheels and they don't flex at all.

Here is their latest model:









They used to sell a CF handlebar in that "compact" style with integrated stem. It's a super-light piece, and I've been riding on that ever since I bought the frame from them. Ask them if they still have some left over. They don't have it on their website now.

My assembled bike is 14 lbs, with pedals and seat, but without front derailleur.


----------



## Fed_Tom

DrFragnasty said:


> Bugger. Thankfully you identified it early.
> 
> I suggest definite warranty claim. The photos should be convincing evidence.
> 
> Is it a surface cosmetic crack or does it affect mechanical strength? Does the piece now bend and "creak" if you apply force? If it's simply the cosmetic layer then it's an easy fix assuming you can be bothered.
> 
> The cable outlet is a bit of a pain. Speaking of which, the crack didn't start or finish at the weak cable outlet which might suggest it's a bond failure between tube and lug part. The way some frames are laid up is to make the frame tubes first then then assemble the bits afterwards like an toy aeroplane kit. Resins can often "go off" if they have a short shelf life. It's likely there'll be others in this production run if that's the case.


I've sent them an e-mail with the pictures attached. They've been less than helpful with my issues thus far, hopefully this one will be fixed in a more suitable manner. The crack is definitely not just cosmetic. It grew in size just riding round the corner to find a landmark for my friend to pick me up at. 

Bike Ride Profile | It took this long to break my new bike. near Garforth | Times and Records | Strava

That's how long it took for this bike to break. It's a Deng Fu FM011. Just posting as when I was purchasing this frame I saw nothing but positive reviews. I'm sure if they replace it the new one will be fine, but this stuff can happen.


----------



## nirVELOvana

_What? No average speed? _



On a serious note though — would you mind if I ask how much you weigh?


----------



## Fed_Tom

nirVELOvana said:


> _What? No average speed? _
> 
> 
> 
> On a serious note though — would you mind if I ask how much you weigh?


There's probably no average as I had to crop off the bit where my mate picked me up and drove home down the motorway haha. I was only going about 15mph anyway, just incase my new Chinese plastic bike broke (good job). I weigh 12 stone or 168lbs. Well under whatever limit they might have.


----------



## MMsRepBike

Average was 14.3 mph.

Sounds like this carbonzone thing or whatever has just been a complete disaster.


----------



## 00Garza

Fed_Tom said:


> There's probably no average as I had to crop off the bit where my mate picked me up and drove home down the motorway haha. I was only going about 15mph anyway, just incase my new Chinese plastic bike broke (good job). I weigh 12 stone or 168lbs. Well under whatever limit they might have.


Thanks for sharing your experience. We all know the risks we take with Chinese carbon, and these posts are what help others make decisions. From what I see and from my own personal experience, people seem to have better luck with quality and warranty claims going direct to Chinese sellers rather than some obscure eBay seller.

I had ordered a frame, seatpost, bottle cages and spacers through Zhongwei. Bottle cages and spacers didn't arrive, and was refunded within two business days. Frame and seatpost have been great.


----------



## combfilter

myhui said:


> Try this manufacturer instead: http://www.gotobike.com.cn
> 
> They have a superior process for carbon fiber agglutination.


I don't know about their process, but I can also echo the same positive comments about my goto frame. I am rough rough rough as **** on it and it's a damn road frame. I have had it for 3yrs now and have rode it on street, gravel, and even across some fields that CX bikes would feel at home on. I have had 0 issues with it. My ultegra build comes in at 14.5lbs. I have the ws-01


----------



## ms6073

Fed_Tom said:


> It's an FM-011. I wasn't expecting much from this frame but 15 steady miles is a joke to be honest.


Based on the images, I would suspect the rear dropouts/triangle got compressed during shipping. All the frames I have ordered from China were always double boxed so I curious what was the overall condition of the package when you received it? Was there a plastic axle block inserted into the dropouts of the rear triangle when you unpacked the frame?


----------



## Fed_Tom

ms6073 said:


> Based on the images, I would suspect the rear dropouts/triangle got compressed during shipping. All the frames I have ordered from China were always double boxed so I curious what was the overall condition of the package when you received it? Was there a plastic axle block inserted into the dropouts of the rear triangle when you unpacked the frame?


The frame was packaged quite well. Not double boxed but the box was pristine, no evidence of damage. Frame looked to be in perfect condition out of the box too. It's pretty strange. Hopefully they'll send me a new one. I can't remember if it had an axle block thing in to be honest. I built it ages ago and have been waiting for parts for some time.


----------



## myhui

What precisely is "agglutination" anyway?


----------



## nirVELOvana

wikipedia.com said:


> _。。。The word *agglutination* comes from the Latin agglutinare, meaning "*to glue*"。。。
> _
> 。。。
> [_more_]





gotobikes.com.cn said:


> _
> *TECHNOLOGY*
> 。。。
> -front triangleis moulded in one time, less *agglutination*, more powerfull.
> 
> -the *agglutination* position is shaped in moulding procesess, not machine work, this avoids breaking the fibres.
> 
> -stairway *agglutination*,make *agglutination* surface larger.
> 。。。_
> [_more_]


Makes sense to me. 

I know one thing. Their translation from Chinese to English is a zillion times better than I — _for one_ — could do translating from English to Chinese what I do at my work.


----------



## myhui

I've read that a hundred times.

I still don't get it.


----------



## nirVELOvana

Like all machine-translations, theirs makes me giggle too. But with *very little* effort。。。



Translation said:


> 。。。
> 
> - 。。。less *glue* makes for a more powerful structure.
> 
> - the place where *the glue* goes is shaped in the moulding process。。。
> 
> - a stepped/gradated *gluing technique* makes for a larger surface area on which to apply *the glue*。。。
> 
> 。。。
> [_more_]


----------



## MMsRepBike

What they're saying is that they have the epoxy side of things covered in spades.


----------



## nirVELOvana

。。。This is a test。。。


----------



## Maglore

nirVELOvana said:


> 。。。This is a test。。。


Did I pass?

(sorry)


----------



## nirVELOvana

Maglore said:


> Did I pass?
> 
> (sorry)


You're probably gonna wanna be sitting down for this。。。

I hate to break it to you。 But the test was not about you。 _

(sorry)_


----------



## Ricey155

Fed_Tom said:


> The frame was packaged quite well. Not double boxed but the box was pristine, no evidence of damage. Frame looked to be in perfect condition out of the box too. It's pretty strange. Hopefully they'll send me a new one. I can't remember if it had an axle block thing in to be honest. I built it ages ago and have been waiting for parts for some time.


That's rubbish 15 miles I hope you get it sorted asap 


On another topic velobuild website is really good till you have an issue then they just ban you from the site for no reason that to make out there good guys 

Check if they ever get any issues and the user isn't banned ??? 

Luckily other than poor seat clamps and hanger the bike frame / wheels are going strong


----------



## myhui

That's why gotobike left Velobuild.

I deal direct with gotobike's sales via email. They welcome video conference if that becomes necessary.


----------



## Jochem132

Just finished my Dengfu Cyclocrosser. It handles really great!
Lets race it!


----------



## Fed_Tom

Replacement frame is on its way to me now. I don't even have to send the old one back. DengFu/CarbonZone handled it quite well, actually. Wonder if the new frame will have cable stops that work!


----------



## roadbug

That's definitely a very encouraging news! All the best to your new frame. If you can get the old frame fixed, then you can use it as a spare, if you're confident enough with it. just dump in some cheap parts here and there. Haha.

I am currently talking to one of their guys and I will be placing my order in a day or two once i receive the final quote. I will have the FM029. What finish will you have on your new one?


----------



## j4son

Went with the Tririg Omega Brake and Sigma Stem recently.


----------



## cocobana

Is there anyone knows that the warranty Greatkeen is really valid? 
My frame's chain stay is cracked and i wrote an email but nobody replies.


----------



## Fed_Tom

roadbug said:


> That's definitely a very encouraging news! All the best to your new frame. If you can get the old frame fixed, then you can use it as a spare, if you're confident enough with it. just dump in some cheap parts here and there. Haha.
> 
> I am currently talking to one of their guys and I will be placing my order in a day or two once i receive the final quote. I will have the FM029. What finish will you have on your new one?


I won't be using the replacement frame. This experience has been enough to sour me to those guys. It will be for sale, if anyone is interested.


----------



## syraleo

cocobana said:


> Is there anyone knows that the warranty Greatkeen is really valid?
> My frame's chain stay is cracked and i wrote an email but nobody replies.


google greatkeenbike, i think they are now on alibaba or something, probably something to do with the crack down by Pinarello on counterfeit frames so their website is gone.

my seatpost clamp was damaged, couldnt contact them on the old email so i went on aliexpress to find another seller for the clamp and it works so i got my issue resolved.

anyway my frame is >1 yr so i think the warranty is out.


----------



## Bleemster

I have a fork/headset problem with my FM166 from Dengfu (ordered and received last year actually, didnt have the cash to build it up until now). 

It seems the Neco headset which came with the bike won´t fit the fork. Online infos say the FM166 has the (standard?) tapered headset requirements of 1 1/8th" top and 1 1/2" bottom, and that seems to be what the included Neco headset would be.

However. The fork has this strange bulge on it that prevents the crown race (is that what its called? the metal ring that would go below the bottom headset bearing) from going down the last little bit. The bearing itself woudn´t fit over the bulge either. 



































What gives? Is this new chinese technology that I am unaware of? Did someone forget to sand down some excess carbon? People with more experience than I tell me carbon is formed exactly the way you want it, no need to sand down (or forget to do so) excess crap after its built. 

What should I do? I am trying to contact Tony (guy from Dengfu through whom I had ordered last year) to see what he says, but figured you guys might be a bit quicker on the uptake.

thanks guys


----------



## pushstart

Huh, my FM166 fork did not have that extra carbon protrusion at the bottom. Obviously needed a hammer (and setting tool) to get the crown race on, but that was normal. Your fork must be a factory defect; I hope they are good about sending you a replacement. Or I suppose you could sand it down yourself if there is no safety concern there ...


----------



## Vee

Do not sand to Install a crown race!


----------



## cocobana

Ashbringer said:


> something new


Is there any news for that frame? Did you ride it?


----------



## wim

Agree, no sanding in this highly stressed area! It's a defective fork, send it back.


----------



## fronesis

wim said:


> Agree, no sanding in this highly stressed area! It's a defective fork, send it back.


+1
I built two china carbon bikes this summer, both with 1 1/2" to 1 1/8" tapered head tubes that used the standard Neco headset. Neither of those forks looked anything like yours. That's not right. It looks like the had an old regular 1 1/8" fork and they tried to add material to the bottom. They should send you another fork.


----------



## Bleemster

I´ve sent the same photos to what I hope is the main Dengfu email ([email protected]) and tried contacting Tony on skype. Here´s hoping they send my a new fork!

If not, can anyone recommend a cost effective replacement fork that would fit the frame (disc mounts, integrated tapered headset, etc) ??


----------



## bvber

Looks like they forgot to machine that area to taper it. Likely a QC issue.


----------



## tamblot

*Hongfu FM296 2014 Frame*

Finally, the paint and decal application is complete. I am still waiting for other components to arrive for final assembly.


----------



## tamblot

Can you share some observations and experience about the routing of front shift cable. I presume most of the frames here have similar internal cable route and route design. Basically, front shift cable enters the frame at the down tube near the top tube through a cable stop. Cable then exits underneath the down tube near the bottom bracket where the cable runs around the bottom bracket through the cable guide and exits the frame somewhere between the seat tube and chain stays and out to the front derailleur.


Photo shown here for reference.












I noticed on the frame that there is only a hole there for the cable to exit. How do you ensure that the cable doesn't rub on the hole edges and rips the frame?


----------



## MMsRepBike

tamblot said:


> I've never run cables on a bike before


You really should read the instructions for your groupset, watch some videos, hang out at your local LBS, something... You've never even seen a front derailleur cable run in your life before yet you bought a frame to build yourself.

Do you have the right tools to be building a bike? Maybe you should consider taking it to someone that does?

I see the headset is not installed, do you know how to do that? Do you have a bottom bracket tool to install the bottom bracket? Do you have a proper torque wrench and bits?

Instead of littering this thread with basic questions on how to build a bike you should either go learn or post in the proper section. If you don't understand how a FD cable will run I'm sure you're going to be full of many other questions and uncertainties.


----------



## tamblot

MMsRepBike said:


> You really should read the instructions for your groupset, watch some videos, hang out at your local LBS, something... You've never even seen a front derailleur cable run in your life before yet you bought a frame to build yourself.
> 
> Do you have the right tools to be building a bike? Maybe you should consider taking it to someone that does?
> 
> I see the headset is not installed, do you know how to do that? Do you have a bottom bracket tool to install the bottom bracket? Do you have a proper torque wrench and bits?
> 
> Instead of littering this thread with basic questions on how to build a bike you should either go learn or post in the proper section. If you don't understand how a FD cable will run I'm sure you're going to be full of many other questions and uncertainties.


You may have quoted a wrong guy.


----------



## MMsRepBike

tamblot said:


> You may have quoted a wrong guy.


I did not.

If you have questions about how to run cables, there's a place to put those questions. Like I said, I'm sure you'll have plenty more questions to put there as well.


----------



## tamblot

MMsRepBike said:


> I did not.
> 
> 
> If you have questions about how to run cables, there's a place to put those questions. Like I said, I'm sure you'll have plenty more questions to put there as well.



Your being fast on the trigger to judge me is so fascinating. Is it because I am a newbie to this forum? Or is it just because I post a photo of a frame without the headset installed yet? Seriously?


That post I had on the cable alignment is not about Cable Routing 101 nor Cable Routing for Dummies. I am talking here specific to the Chinese Carbon frames. Like others who see their fork has problem with the headset fit, I see cable alignment issue from cable guide at the bottom bracket to the front derailleur through the hole on the frame. That's why I asked for observations and experience here.


If you own a Chinese carbon frame just like me and like the rest of the members who post here, then I would appreciate if you can share some inputs. If you don't and that's all what you have to say about my post, I think it is you who is in the wrong thread.


----------



## MMsRepBike

tamblot said:


> That post I had on the cable alignment is not about Cable Routing 101 nor Cable Routing for Dummies. I am talking here specific to the Chinese Carbon frames.


You're quite wrong. This is indeed cable routing 101 on just about any carbon frame. This is in no way related to Chinese carbon frames only. Yes I own an FR-315, I also own a few name brand bikes. I've run cables in maybe a few more. There's nothing special at all about your frame or different or anything of the sort. We have a wrenching and components section to this forum for mechanical questions of the sort.

How about you try poking a cable around and see what happens?


----------



## tamblot

MMsRepBike said:


> You're quite wrong. This is indeed cable routing 101 on just about any carbon frame. This is in no way related to Chinese carbon frames only. Yes I own an FR-315, I also own a few name brand bikes. I've run cables in maybe a few more. There's nothing special at all about your frame or different or anything of the sort. We have a wrenching and components section to this forum for mechanical questions of the sort.
> 
> How about you try poking a cable around and see what happens?


You've given your opinion. You've judged me twice. Don't you think its more than enough and let the rest here share theirs as well?


----------



## Ashbringer

cocobana said:


> Is there any news for that frame? Did you ride it?


so sorry,actually,one friend of mine just built one up last week, but ive no feed back from him,maybe this weekend i would ride it for tens kilometers.


----------



## Ashbringer

a bad newS, a Hongfu FM069 and a Merida Reacto 5000 crashed :


















































































im not pointing any frames or any Manufacturers are bad,this was just a crash,and the rider using this frame showed us what he found.
any any one is interested ,and he can read Chinese,just open this link :
Chick here
（first time to post a link,takes me a while. LOL)


----------



## cocobana

Ashbringer said:


> so sorry,actually,one friend of mine just built one up last week, but ive no feed back from him,maybe this weekend i would ride it for tens kilometers.


Do you know where he did get the frame? I am struggling to find a reliable one. This thing is kinda rocket science


----------



## Ashbringer

cocobana said:


> Do you know where he did get the frame? I am struggling to find a reliable one. This thing is kinda rocket science


he got it from Miracle


----------



## Bleemster

welp, just to let you guys know, I went ahead and sanded down (wel, filed down) that part of the fork that was preventing the headset race from being properly seated.

Built it up and rode it for the first time today - really impressed with how it handles! I´ll let you guys know if I crash...

FM166 Frame from Dengfu


----------



## MMsRepBike

very interesting bike


----------



## Bleemster

yep its more of a city bomber than a racing machine, but thats what I wanted, so. Mostly SRAM X9 stuff with a 1x10 drivetrain, front chainring is a Wolfstooth 44t narrow/wide model, square taper BB with oldschool shimano 600 cranks. I hate external BBs with a passion. BB7 S brakes (1 step above the ones with the red plastic - thought that would look tacky).

Wheelset is a Mavic (forget the model, some cross set I think), sort of heavy, but I need them to survive some rough city riding, so I figured going all weight weenie on the wheels would be a bad idea.


----------



## CabDoctor

Is there anything like a TCR Advanced out there right now?


----------



## MMsRepBike

not really, no.

depends on what you mean by "like."

the FR-315 - FR-318 are the closest I think.


----------



## ms6073

CabDoctor said:


> Is there anything like a TCR Advanced out there right now?


Sort of. Search Ebay with the term 'TCR Composite' and you will get some listings from sellers located in China offering what I believe are clones of the TCR Composite. Outside of that, no, nothing really even close and the reason is primarily because Giant is very aggressive about protecting intellectual property rights the world over. They have been known to file suit against bike shops selling Giants without authorization as well as and the minor league manufacturers that produce copies.


----------



## RaptorTC

tamblot said:


> If you own a Chinese carbon frame just like me and like the rest of the members who post here, then I would appreciate if you can share some inputs. If you don't and that's all what you have to say about my post, I think it is you who is in the wrong thread.


I have an FM098 with a similar front derailleur routing setup. 4,000 miles later and its still working just fine. The cable isn't digging into the frame or anything like that.


----------



## f3rg

nirVELOvana said:


>


I'm a little past 17,600mi on my FM015, for what it's worth, and still going strong. I've also seen many threads here, on Reddit, and around the web of name-brand frames that snap on the first ride, too.


----------



## Fed_Tom

f3rg said:


> I'm a little past 17,600mi on my FM015, for what it's worth, and still going strong. I've also seen many threads here, on Reddit, and around the web of name-brand frames that snap on the first ride, too.


Just sharing my experience with potential buyers. Warranty procedure was easy enough, though, and I have the new frame with me already.


----------



## Italianrider76

ms6073 said:


> Sort of. Search Ebay with the term 'TCR Composite' and you will get some listings from sellers located in China offering what I believe are clones of the TCR Composite. Outside of that, no, nothing really even close and the reason is primarily because Giant is very aggressive about protecting intellectual property rights the world over. They have been known to file suit against bike shops selling Giants without authorization as well as and the minor league manufacturers that produce copies.



Actually I think those Giant TCR Composite frames are the real deal. They are listed on Giant's China page and are actually manufactured in Giant's Chinese facility and not in Taiwan. They are Chinese market frames but they're not clones. Cloning a Giant would be like cloning a Seiko watch.

As for anything like a TCR frame there is the FR-315 which shares a similar geometry to the TCR:

Fr 315 Full Carbon 3K Matt 700c Road Bike BB30 Frame Fork Seatpost Headset | eBay


----------



## OldZaskar

*Need helping picking a Chinese carbon frame set*

I was going read the threads: "Chinese Carbon thread and Ebay direct version __" but then realized I have to work this year and won't have time to read the 12,000 posts. So...

Could anyone offer up some Clif's notes or guidance. I'm wanting to build a light, stiff single speed. Track dropouts are NOT a must - I can work around that with a bit of math and some trial and error (and half links). 

I read a bit of those threads, but was clearly left behind - I'm assuming at some point a few thousand posts ago, brands and carbon types were discussed and established... 

Basic questions:
- What are the brands to look at first?
- What are the "right" layups? I thought I saw a couple discussed

Bonus level help...
- Assume I love my Scott Addict SL frame set... what's the closes brand/model in the "Cheap Chinese" lineup?

THANKS!


----------



## garfunkah

Regarding brands I would say that buying from

HongFu Sports Equipment CO.,LTD - HongFu Sports Equipment CO.,LTD or
dengfubikes would be safe choices.

Also Zhongwei seems popular, Shenzhen Zhongwei Composite Material Co., Ltd. - Carbon Frame,Carbon Fork, and is used by Velobuild.


----------



## MMsRepBike

just like any bike, it's all about geometry. 

seeing how it's bought online with about zero chance for returns... you better be sure you know exactly what size/geometry fits you.


----------



## OldZaskar

MMsRepBike said:


> just like any bike, it's all about geometry.
> 
> seeing how it's bought online with about zero chance for returns... you better be sure you know exactly what size/geometry fits you.


Yep! I'm not buying a thing 'til I get all the specs - geometry's at the top of the list. 



garfunkah said:


> Regarding brands I would say that buying from
> 
> HongFu Sports Equipment CO.,LTD - HongFu Sports Equipment CO.,LTD or
> dengfubikes would be safe choices.
> 
> Also Zhongwei seems popular, Shenzhen Zhongwei Composite Material Co., Ltd. - Carbon Frame,Carbon Fork, and is used by Velobuild.


I'll take a look at those - thanks! 
A friend rides a Dengfu and says it's been great. Glad to hear that one mentioned hear.


----------



## 00Garza

Sellers that I have heard good things about:

Flyxi- a buddy of mine rides one of theirs and loves it
Yishun -now asiancyclexpress
Zhongwei- I ride one of theirs and love it
Dengfu
Hongfu
Lightbicycle
Yoeleo- thinking of getting some of their wheels in the near future


----------



## Roland44

00Garza said:


> Sellers that I have heard good things about:
> 
> Flyxi- a buddy of mine rides one of theirs and loves it
> Yishun -now asiancyclexpress
> Zhongwei- I ride one of theirs and love it
> Dengfu
> Hongfu
> Lightbicycle
> Yoeleo- thinking of getting some of their wheels in the near future


I have to vouch for Flyxi as well. Great quality.


----------



## BigPoser

00Garza said:


> Sellers that I have heard good things about:
> 
> Flyxi- a buddy of mine rides one of theirs and loves it
> Yishun -now asiancyclexpress
> Zhongwei- I ride one of theirs and love it
> Dengfu
> Hongfu
> Lightbicycle
> Yoeleo- thinking of getting some of their wheels in the near future



Which frames do you and your buddy have? Zhongwei seem to be primarily Cervelo and Pinnarello reps. How is the quality? Do you know if they are the suppliers of Cervelo and Pinnarello?


----------



## tamblot

RaptorTC said:


> I have an FM098 with a similar front derailleur routing setup. 4,000 miles later and its still working just fine. The cable isn't digging into the frame or anything like that.


Good to know @RaptorTC that cable is aligned in your frame. misalignment in mine seems to be related to the cable guide not well seated to the bottom of the frame.










I made some grinding on the ABS cable guide to create a good fit. 

How's your cable guide doing by the way? Any significant cable rub marks? After some Dremel works with mine, it seems the ABS material used seem soft.


----------



## jlandry

Is there a copy of the BMC Team Machine out there?


----------



## TricrossRich

I've heard good things about Zhongwei and Dengfu... I have Yeoleo wheels and given my experience with them, I wouldn't be afraid of purchasing a frame from them either. I also have several friends with yoeleo wheels as well and we've all had good experiences so far. I have over 3000 miles on mine and counting and they've handled everything I've thrown at them.

In terms of carbon used and specific layups, I don't believe anyone has any specific info, at least I haven't seen any... the closest I've seen was some of the Chinese manufacturers stating they use Toray 800 or 1000.


----------



## OldZaskar

Very few of these companies carry anything larger than 58cm - and lots of them max out at 56cm. I ride a 61cm. I realize some of them measure differently, e.g. not center to center... but, definitely limits the options.


----------



## 00Garza

BigPoser said:


> Which frames do you and your buddy have? Zhongwei seem to be primarily Cervelo and Pinnarello reps. How is the quality? Do you know if they are the suppliers of Cervelo and Pinnarello?


I ride a R-002 because I wanted to stay away from replicas, and the price was right. The geometry was close to what I needed, but due to my strange body size, I'm hard to size to any bike. The quality is great and have had no issues with it so far. I've had it almost a year and logged around 5k miles. I was sidelined for a while due to work.

My buddy rides a Flyxii Fr-322. He actually bough it used with a few thousand miles on it and it still serves him faithfully.
No idea if they are Pinnarello or Cervelo suppliers.


----------



## ZachUA

Is there anything like a tarmac sl4 frame being offered?


----------



## Kuroine

If I'm correct, I believe the R-061 is a Tarmac copy


----------



## .je

Sales for these frames must be strong, and the prices seem to be following that accordingly. I was looking at an FM-015, which is very close to Madone or moreso Foil geometry, but there aren't many left, since it's being (I'm reading) updated to FM-069. FM-015 has been $450, and conversion to $CDN + shipping is about $600. The FM-069? *$900*. 

Are these people for real? You can get a brand name frame, all painted, without worry of things not fitting or going together, in >a store< for less than $100 more, and walk away with it immediately.

Is this pricing for real?

-

Maybe I should ask... will it go back down to $450 or $500 around February?


----------



## skott1980

*Dengfu aero frame FM206*

Hi all I'm contemplating buying FM206 aero frame from dengfu. Who's rode there frames & was you satisfied ?.

i have previously imported from yoeleo & been very happy with there products and service. Unfortunately there aero frame doesn't look as good as dengfu's.

Scott.


----------



## asherstash1

skott1980 said:


> Hi all I'm contemplating buying FM206 aero frame from dengfu. Who's rode there frames & was you satisfied ?.
> 
> i have previously imported from yoeleo & been very happy with there products and service. Unfortunately there aero frame doesn't look as good as dengfu's.
> 
> Scott.


im planning to buy this frame soon and in my research I have recenty found this post appearing all over and no-one replying lol, so... I have not used deng-fu but thousands have on here and elsewhere and they are regularly referred to as one of this communities more trusted suppliers. as for the frame there aren't many reviews around but here is a helpful one by a guy who has built up ridden and raced his Some pics of my Deng Fu FM206 road bike build | Guy Jones Triathlon
hope this helps...


----------



## bugly64

I just bought a R-041 off Velobuildmall yesterday. I damaged my Flyxii FLX-FR-322 beyond repair, so I am finally going to get the frame I really wanted in the first place.


----------



## bhaijaan

Hey guys, is there any forum that breaks all the information down in an easier to read format? basically what velobuild used to be before they started selling from only one company?


----------



## cocobana

i just orderded a T1000 F8 frame on carbonbicycleexport dhgate, gonna write details here bcz i couldn't find any review about it on somewhere else.


----------



## ChevyDK

Let us hear about it! I would like to order one but have not found it large enough (looking for 59ish).


----------



## asherstash1

*206 geometry chart*









just got sent this from deng fu- if you compare the charts on the website and this you will notice some differences... I think on the websites charts "D" and "E" are back to front lol


----------



## ZachUA

bhaijaan said:


> Hey guys, is there any forum that breaks all the information down in an easier to read format? basically what velobuild used to be before they started selling from only one company?


I would like to know this too. Something that has each frame listed by its number designation, and then, if applicable, which manufacturers frame it is based off of. Also, which china distributors sell it, for example, flyxii, hongfu, dengfu, xiamen, yoleo, etc. Obviously there's loads more info that could be inputed...


----------



## bhaijaan

ZachUA said:


> I like that it's broken down by distributor but I wonder if it would also be good to have it so you could see it sorted by frame numbers and then next to the frame which distributors sell it. Problem might be when some call it an fm028 and another dist calls it something else? Weights, prices, available finishes, etc...all points of interest for potential buyers.


 Thats a great idea. It will definitely take some work, but I will get to working on it asap. I think Ill keep the breakdown as it is currently but under each manufacture, I will add the frame name and someway to show what other manufactures are selling the same frame by what name. Thank you for your suggestion!


----------



## nattakon

today i recive frame aero007. I think, my frame have some fracture ?
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sfu48vawd9f0np6/AAAzfRgKBi9jWS6bfaSKe5C6a#/

but when I contact to seller, She say 
our professional engineer have saw these pictures,and he said it is not crack,just be scrape by the parts,it is not quality issue,you dont worry about the quality
I'm very concern.
What do you think about it?


----------



## nattakon

today i recive frame aero007. I think, my frame have some fracture ?

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sfu48vawd9f0np6/AAAzfRgKBi9jWS6bfaSKe5C6a#/

but when I contact to seller, She say 
our professional engineer have saw these pictures,and he said it is not crack,just be scrape by the parts,it is not quality issue,you dont worry about the quality
I'm very concern.
What do you think about it?


----------



## nattakon

today i recive frame aero007. I think, my frame have some fracture ?

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sfu48vawd...S6bfaSKe5C6a#/

but when I contact to seller, She say 
our professional engineer have saw these pictures,and he said it is not crack,just be scrape by the parts,it is not quality issue,you dont worry about the quality
I'm very concern.
What do you think about it?


----------



## 92gli

Is anyone making a road disc f+f with through-axles yet ?


----------



## asherstash1

nattakon- I don't think big issue, just sloppy lay-up, risk we take for cheap frame, not always look very pretty! are you having problems installing lower crownrace on fork?


----------



## beston

nattakon said:


> today i recive frame aero007. I think, my frame have some fracture ?
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sfu48vawd...S6bfaSKe5C6a#/
> 
> but when I contact to seller, She say
> our professional engineer have saw these pictures,and he said it is not crack,just be scrape by the parts,it is not quality issue,you dont worry about the quality
> I'm very concern.
> What do you think about it?


I wouldn't be worried about that myself.


----------



## meeeeep

92gli said:


> Is anyone making a road disc f+f with through-axles yet ?


Not that I've seen myself. I would be very interested in building one up with shimano hydros and di2.


----------



## nattakon

asherstash1 said:


> nattakon- I don't think big issue, just sloppy lay-up, risk we take for cheap frame, not always look very pretty! are you having problems installing lower crownrace on fork?





beston said:


> I wouldn't be worried about that myself.


thank you


----------



## cloinsigh

redstarcap said:


> Here's my zhongwei r-002 complete bike pics


Hey, that's one of the best looking bikes I've seen around these parts. How does it ride? I'm torn between a few different frames.
[email protected] found a lot of Zhongwei's online. Is this the company you purchased yours from? Shenzhen Zhongwei Composite Material Co., Ltd. - Carbon Frame,Carbon Fork 

Thanks
Conor


----------



## 00Garza

cloinsigh said:


> Hey, that's one of the best looking bikes I've seen around these parts. How does it ride? I'm torn between a few different frames.
> [email protected] found a lot of Zhongwei's online. Is this the company you purchased yours from? Shenzhen Zhongwei Composite Material Co., Ltd. - Carbon Frame,Carbon Fork
> 
> Thanks
> Conor


I have the same frame, and yes that is the company.


----------



## cloinsigh

00Garza said:


> I have the same frame, and yes that is the company.


Thanks 00Garza,
What's it like to ride? I have a spare 31.6 seatpost, can you tell me what size post it takes?


----------



## 00Garza

cloinsigh said:


> Thanks 00Garza,
> What's it like to ride? I have a spare 31.6 seatpost, can you tell me what size post it takes?


I love it. Its been rock solid for me. Its not the lightest chinese frame, but I'm ok with that. I wouldn't really say it specializes or is great at any one thing (sprinting, climbing, aero). Its just good all around, and pretty comfy to boot.

The seatpost is 31.6 so you're in luck, though I ordered the matching seatpost and its been great as well. Very much worth the $27 I paid for it.


----------



## cloinsigh

You sir are a gent. Glad you like it.
I've got my quote from Dick Chen in Zhongwei for 2 frames including forks and seatposts for $760 plus €105 for shipping. My brother is looking for a new frame too and that looks like the one.


----------



## CabDoctor

How did your FM186 ride?


----------



## ZachUA

Kuroine said:


> If I'm correct, I believe the R-061 is a Tarmac copy


awesome! I wonder why I am not seeing more builds of that frame? Not a single one on velobuild or any that I have seen on here. I am very close to buying one, but I want to be sure that it is the closest one out there to the Tarmac (and what differences are there, if any?) The geometry charts are _almost_ identical.


----------



## cloinsigh

00Garza said:


> I love it. Its been rock solid for me. Its not the lightest chinese frame, but I'm ok with that. I wouldn't really say it specializes or is great at any one thing (sprinting, climbing, aero). Its just good all around, and pretty comfy to boot.
> 
> The seatpost is 31.6 so you're in luck, though I ordered the matching seatpost and its been great as well. Very much worth the $27 I paid for it.


Hi 00Garza,
One last thing. I've read conflicting builds saying the headset is 1 1/8" to 1 1/4" or 1 1/2. What size headset did you use?

Thanks again


----------



## 00Garza

cloinsigh said:


> Hi 00Garza,
> One last thing. I've read conflicting builds saying the headset is 1 1/8" to 1 1/4" or 1 1/2. What size headset did you use?
> 
> Thanks again


I believe its 1 1/8 to 1 1/4


----------



## bvber

It is. R-002 link


----------



## .je

How does R002 compare to FR322? Hope someone has made comparison (other than numbers from tables)?


----------



## evankuhl

What frame has taken the place of the FM028? Is anyone still buying the FM028?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDcgrAvlSxo


----------



## garfunkah

evankuhl said:


> What frame has taken the place of the FM028? Is anyone still buying the FM028?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDcgrAvlSxo


I think it's replaced by the FM029.


----------



## asherstash1

finished design (I think) for my fm206 from deng-fu, cannot say enough how efficient and helpful they have been!
gloss white and naked matte UD carbon, "AGB" is my initials, Alice+1 is my mrs and our (sex unknown) unborn baby. bosh.


----------



## ZachUA

Kuroine said:


> If I'm correct, I believe the R-061 is a Tarmac copy


Awesome, thanks Kuroine. 

I can't find much info on the r-061 online. Does anyone else know anything about it? Built up pics or anything other than the photos displayed on the ali sites?


----------



## Kuroine

Does anyone have any info (ride tests, reviews) of the new F8 copies from zhongwei or any other manufacture?


----------



## ChevyDK

And has the F8 been seen anywhere in size 59.5?


----------



## Tswifty

Kuroine said:


> Does anyone have any info (ride tests, reviews) of the new F8 copies from zhongwei or any other manufacture?


"Hello,Swifty
This is thomas answer you.
Now we just have 55.5cm size. and UD finish.
the price of it with seat post, fork is 480usd.
and shipping cost is 85usd.

regards
thomas."

This is as much info as i have for the F8 and something to the extent other sizes wont be around till Jan.


----------



## scblur

Guys
Ive built 2 FM015s from HongFu and have loved them both. Both ISPs.
Both cracked due to non biking related semi freak accidents in my garage. (Don't ask, but you've seen one accident in a commercial... the other was rather minor and could have easily been repaired). If anyone is interested, I might sell the last frame very cheap.

The point of this is my new bike an R055 from VB. I've not read much on it here? I'm very impressed. It looks fantastic, it's a bit like a cervelo. I've built it up with Dura Ace except for the crank, where I used an FSA S-LK carbon, very lite and fairly cheap , new on ebay.
I love how it rides, very responsive. The best handling bike I've ridden for sure. 
When buying I picked up a carbon bar, seatpost (came with), carbon seat, and stem.
I regret the stem. Ugly and kind of heavy. I actually like the seat. Although, I'd like to glue on some leather for a little more "stick", its slippy. The bar and post are great, lite, good quality. Shipping was less than a week. Email was in clear, sensible language. Easy deal. 

It weighed in at (56cm) 14.48# w/o pedals FWIW. Not a weight weenie as I could loose a few as well, but its fun to get lite. The FM015 was 16# plus.


----------



## karabas barabas

I was also considering buying the R-055 from VB. Unfortunately it's not available in 58cm size at the moment.
But I've found another similar frame (a clone of the R5) on aliexpress. Maybe can anyone help me to identify producer of this frame? - see the attached pictures. Is it worth buying it? Or maybe simply to go with the R-016 from VB? - which is available in 58cm size but I don't really like its design.


----------



## tamblot

Hongfu FM296 Build
After a long wait, most of the components finally arrived yesterday. Specialized Armadillo Elite 700x25c tires and Toupe Sport saddle.  Shimano 105 components. 3T Ergonova Handlebar. Chainwheel and shifters are still on the way.








My Black Widow last night getting her into shape.


----------



## kiwisimon

karabas barabas said:


> . Is it worth buying it? Or maybe simply to go with the R-016 from VB? - which is available in 58cm size but I don't really like its design.


It's a chinese carbon frame from China. You pay your money, you take your chances. FWIW I had a good experience with these guys. 
Carbon bicycle frame, Carbon bicycle frame direct from Xiamen Top-Fire Sports Equipment Co., Ltd. in China (Mainland) I sent them a email asking for a bike with the TT I needed and they sent me this bike. It is a rocket, beats any bike from the 90's I rode, Colnagos to Kestrels. Smiles for bills, it beats anything thus far. Send them an email, ask for Edward and tell him Simon in Japan recommended him.


----------



## pommieyeti

Ive had this frame 8 months and i got it from greatkeen bikes and its got a crack around both sides of the bottom bracket, ive emailed for the last 5 days but no answer apparently its got a 2 year warranty but its no good if you cant get hold of anyone anyone here had any dealings with greatkeen JERRY ?













Was a good frame until this happened


----------



## fabriciom

What frame Is that?

I bought a look 695 from Jerry...


----------



## cocobana

SAME HERE,

I bought a rfm301 from Greatkeen and i found a crack on the chain stay, i ve sent email to Jerry and other ones from Greatkeen no answer and nothing at all. 
Jerry if you read this, i am really disappointed.
View attachment 301305




pommieyeti said:


> Ive had this frame 8 months and i got it from greatkeen bikes and its got a crack around both sides of the bottom bracket, ive emailed for the last 5 days but no answer apparently its got a 2 year warranty but its no good if you cant get hold of anyone anyone here had any dealings with greatkeen JERRY ?
> View attachment 301282
> View attachment 301283
> 
> Was a good frame until this happened


----------



## tamblot

*Hongfu FM296 Build - *Assembly is finally over! She is ready for the ride!










Weighs *8.13kgs *as shown on photo and with below specs:


Hongfu HF-FM296 Size 53 frame
Hongfu HF-W40-C03 Wheelset
Hongfu HF-SP006 seatpost
Powerhubs PHB-R13/PFH-R13
Shimano 105 5800 groupset (11-speed)
3T Ergonova handlebar with Lizardskins DSP wrap
Easton EA90 Stem
Specialized Toupe Sport Saddle
Specialized Armadillo Elite tires (700x25c)
Specialized Rib Cage II bottle cage (x2)


----------



## MC357

Any idea what frame the FM296 is like, giant, trek, etc?


----------



## [email protected]

I've bought an R-051 from Velobuild.


























The seatpost is a PITA to attach the saddle too, hope it stays in place when riding 









Also ordered handlebars, it has internal routing, too bad the hydraulic brake lines and DI2 cables have to be attached on the same side so I can only route one of them internally (will be the hydraulic line because that's the biggest)









The build is progressing fairly quick:









I just can't get the bottom bracket in, have to go to the LBS for that I'm affraid.

Internal routing is hard as well, the BB area is quite small and all the electronics have to pass there as well as the hydraulic line from the back brake. Took me almost 2 hours to get the routing done. The rest was fairly straight forward.
DI2-battery fitted nicley in the seatpost with the plastic bits Shimano provide.

Tonight I have to fix the brakes (connect, fill with oil and bleed), steerer was cut last night (left some wiggle space until I'm sure of the fit)
Hopefully tommorrow to the LBS for the BB installation then testride and after that the bar tape.


----------



## tamblot

MC357 said:


> Any idea what frame the FM296 is like, giant, trek, etc?


I haven't come across a frame that is the exact match of FM296 in terms of measurements. I did however a comparison before I placed the order, geometry wise, FM296 is comparable to Competitive Road of Specialized and Elite Road of Cannondale. A couple of +/-x.xx cm here and there.


----------



## .je

I used this geo calculator spreadseet, and it looks much like Giant TCR or Trek H2, within a3 or 4 mm.

bb2stem: Stack & Reach Calculator v1.00


----------



## tamblot

And here is the comparison that I previously made.




*Geometry Comparison (mm)* *FM296**Brand Z**Delta Z**Brand Y**Delta Y*Bike Size535252Seat-Tube Length, B-B Center to Top530.0462-68483-47Top-Tube Length, Horizontal529.0537853910B-B Drop71.572Chain-Stay Length406.0405-14071Seat-Tube Angle (°)74.074074.20.2Head-Tube Angle (°)72.5730.5730.5Fork Rake45.0450-45Trail6256Front-Center574.15761.9Wheelbase974.6970-4.69761.4Head-Tube Length135.0120-15110-25Reach376.03861039216Stack537526-11519-18

<tbody>

</tbody>


----------



## syraleo

Those who have trouble with Greatkeen, might want to try their alibaba site. 

My seat post clamp failed on my Chinarello from Greatkeen, luckily I was able to get a spare from aliexpress, a different seller. 

In any case, I don't think the warranty issue stands, I bought this frame knowing the risks and that the warranty would be for laughs.


----------



## kiwisimon

I have to agree with the above, people buying a counterfeit frame take the obvious risks. You know prior to buying, the seller has no scruples.


----------



## conor_lynch

kiwisimon said:


> It's a chinese carbon frame from China. You pay your money, you take your chances. FWIW I had a good experience with these guys.
> Carbon bicycle frame, Carbon bicycle frame direct from Xiamen Top-Fire Sports Equipment Co., Ltd. in China (Mainland) I sent them a email asking for a bike with the TT I needed and they sent me this bike. It is a rocket, beats any bike from the 90's I rode, Colnagos to Kestrels. Smiles for bills, it beats anything thus far. Send them an email, ask for Edward and tell him Simon in Japan recommended him.



Hi Kiwisimon,
What frame number is that?


----------



## kiwisimon

conor_lynch said:


> Hi Kiwisimon,
> What frame number is that?


 FM-R826 The only reason I got that one was they had it in stock. I asked for it raw and rough and 5 days later I was assembling it.


----------



## 00Garza

syraleo said:


> Those who have trouble with Greatkeen, might want to try their alibaba site.
> 
> My seat post clamp failed on my Chinarello from Greatkeen, luckily I was able to get a spare from aliexpress, a different seller.
> 
> In any case, I don't think the warranty issue stands, I bought this frame knowing the risks and that the warranty would be for laughs.


Not all Chinese sellers are created equal. Some are much better than others at communication, post sale customer service, and honoring warranty. I have heard a lot of negative posts about Greatkeen.

I ordered a frame, spacers, and bottle cages from Zhongwei, but the spacers and cages were missing. I had no way of proving this, and they were listed on the manifest. 
For all they knew, I could've been lying and ripping them off. Regardless, they quickly refunded my money. 

Anyone interested in taking the plunge on Chinese carbon would be wise to read up on customer service reviews on the various sellers.


----------



## syraleo

I bought my Chinarello July 2013, that was before zhongwei, yishun and other various sellers started getting popular. 

When I got my frame, the major players were deng fu, Hong fu, Greatkeen and some others. 

Regardless, gk had their site taken down probably due to pinarello cracking down on replicas. 

I still think warranty is for laughs though, if they honor it, fantastic. Else.. Nothing much you can do. Quite a few bad experiences in this thread from various sellers as it is.


----------



## Kuroine

cocobana said:


> i just orderded a T1000 F8 frame on carbonbicycleexport dhgate, gonna write details here bcz i couldn't find any review about it on somewhere else.


Have you gotten your frame yet? I'm interested in ordering one myself.


----------



## cocobana

Not yet, i am still waiting for the frame being prepared.


----------



## anthro88

duplicate posting


----------



## bugly64

It took 2 weeks and 3 days for my R-041 frame to get to me from Velobuildmall.


----------



## roadbug

Received my FM029 in 5days! I am now waiting for my boxes from wiggle.

Does anyone know roughly from which manufacturer/brand was the FM029 based on?


----------



## MMsRepBike

probably the trek madone.


----------



## roadbug

MMsRepBike said:


> probably the trek madone.


I asked the sales guy and you are right!


----------



## Ricey155

Velobuilds R-041 / FM099 headset replacement ??? Which exact size did you replace it with ? So many spesh variations


----------



## sjhomey

roadbug said:


> Received my FM029 in 5days! I am now waiting for my boxes from wiggle.
> 
> Does anyone know roughly from which manufacturer/brand was the FM029 based on?


I am looking at that frame also. It looks like a Madone, but the closest geometry I could find is the Planet X RT-58. Number for number it is the same at the 52cm size. They advertise it as an endurance frame.


----------



## oclax03

Hey guys, I've been stalking forums for a few days now, but the amount of information on these threads is rather overwhelming. 

I'm looking at either 38mm or 50mm u-shape tubular rims, but I've become worried by people talking about their experiences with pulsing and other brake track defects. Is this typically a problem with tubulars or just clinchers? Is this a common issue with the Chinese wheels? 

Also, I've contacted a few companies for quotes. So far Dengfu is the cheapest (184/rim pair), but I haven't been able to find much information on people's experiences with the Dengfu wheels. I've also spoken with FarSport and velobuildmall and their prices are a tad more expensive (about 80-100 dollars), but the reviews from people have been fairly mixed. If anyone has opinions on the best source for Chinese rims I would really appreciate any information.


----------



## twiggy

oclax03 - you should probably consult the Chinese Carbon Wheel threat over in the wheel forum  Good luck!


----------



## Ricey155

I bought some 38mm clinchers from velobuild braking not an issue till I visited the burway UK and needed to be on the brakes none stop and the balsalt / carbon just melted / overheated


----------



## oclax03

Ya, I think it's fair to classify that as a "less-than-ideal" wheel experience

Thanks for your input Ricey


----------



## CycleguyJoe

*Newbie looking for Velobuild R-022 experience*

Hello, all;

New to this site, and looking for buying and riding experience with the Velobuild R-022 frame. I've searched diligently without much luck.

I'm looking for a bike to build up for use on longer rides than with my current main bike, an older Cannondale.

I'm aware in a vague way that Velobuild has been through some changes recently, and that they have become an exclusive outlet for one supplier.

Has anyone bought, built up, and ridden an R-022? Bought one through Ebay?

Any advice? I'm an older rider, 3,000 miles a year, recreation only.

Thanks in advance.

Joe F


----------



## NYC_CAAD

If anyone dealt with Greatkeen and paid with credit card/debit card then start calling your banks ASAP and put in a claim. Period

"To dispute a credit card transaction online, log in to Online Banking and go to the Information & Services tab for your account."

"Before you call, have your statement on which the disputed charge appears, your receipt from the merchant "


----------



## jlandry

Did you get scammed?


----------



## NYC_CAAD

Nope. Heading to strictly bicycle January 2015 for my new F8.


----------



## ruckus

I would also like to know more about these F8 copies, if they ride like the real ones.

I'm not interested in the counterfeits. But the F8 does have some interesting innovations. The fork has a slight curve to them, improves airflow, turbulence created by the wheel spokes as wheel turns. The aero improvements and tube shaping. Interested to know if any company has integrated some of these innovations to their frames?

There is no denying that a lot of these frames have features from other companies, like the Trek Madone.



evankuhl said:


> What frame has taken the place of the FM028? Is anyone still buying the FM028?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDcgrAvlSxo



Your videos had helped to convince me to give these frames a try. I discovered the FM028 were no longer in production. I went with a Flyxii FR-322, was closest I could find with some changes I wanted. Internal cabling, but a lot of these frames have that now. Tapered seattube, as wide as bottom bracket but tapers to 27.2. When I spoke with Flyxii, was told it's Toray T800 carbon. But it is a more aggressive than the FM028, but that might be a plus for you since do race. The FM029 and FM028 look more relaxed to me despite their compact design. Still more race-like than the consumer branded bikes.

Only issue I had was cable routing in the bottom bracket. I solved it by using the internal sleeving from the cable housing so it would shift smoother. After a year, still shifts well. I know others didn't have this issue.

Would mention the Flyxii FR-322 that I got had clean carbon build. There wasn't anything left from the air bladders they use and the tubing is smooth inside.



bugly64 said:


> I just bought a R-041 off Velobuildmall yesterday. I damaged my Flyxii FLX-FR-322 beyond repair, so I am finally going to get the frame I really wanted in the first place.


How did you do that? Big crash?

R-04 looks uncomfortable to me. Very aero though with the headtube being so short. Has that dip in there. Make the stack for handlebar even lower. Back hurts looking at it. Well hope it works for you. I do like that they include the BSA adapter. 

Are you looking to race with this bike?



nirVELOvana said:


> _The $10 Ginyea headset_ is faultless


Which model did you get? I'm certain that all these Chinese frames use the same headset if it's 1 1/8 to 1 1/5.


tamblot said:


> I noticed on the frame that there is only a hole there for the cable to exit. How do you ensure that the cable doesn't rub on the hole edges and rips the frame?


You use the liner inside the cable housing. Or you can get liner, they make liners for that purpose. In fact on a lot of Giant bikes I see use cable liners around the bottom bracket. As someone mentioned, this is a basic. Any bike shop has these. Or at least they should.


----------



## christoph1980

Hey Guys, does anybody has an idea who is producing for cboardman? 

The oem version of these bike would be an dream


----------



## CycleguyJoe

*Alibaba refuses order*



biketowork said:


> I tried to buy a bike frame on Aliexpress and there was a popup message saying that because of legal issue with the US the system prevented me from adding item in the basket to purchase. Has anybody experienced this problem?


I had the same experience. If my memory is correct, the popup said my state (Washington) had laws prohibiting Alibaba's escrow payment service. I took my business back to Ebay.

Cheers

Joe F


----------



## ruckus

Ricey155 said:


> I bought some 38mm clinchers from velobuild braking not an issue till I visited the burway UK and needed to be on the brakes none stop and the balsalt / carbon just melted / overheated


Probably did, but still want to ask, did you buy the proper brake pads made for carbon rims?


----------



## ruckus

bugly64 said:


> I just bought a R-041 off Velobuildmall yesterday. I damaged my Flyxii FLX-FR-322 beyond repair, so I am finally going to get the frame I really wanted in the first place.


What happened to the Flyxii? Mine is still looks nearly unblemished, I think it's a heavily built bike. How about the carbon wheels you bought?

Next year I think I'll build a bike with VeloBuild R-022 with 105 5800, 3T ARX Pro, Fizike Arione and 23mm wide wheels. If you know of 23mm wheels that are reasonably priced, let me know.


----------



## bugly64

ruckus said:


> What happened to the Flyxii? Mine is still looks nearly unblemished, I think it's a heavily built bike. How about the carbon wheels you bought?
> 
> Next year I think I'll build a bike with VeloBuild R-022 with 105 5800, 3T ARX Pro, Fizike Arione and 23mm wide wheels. If you know of 23mm wheels that are reasonably priced, let me know.


I damaged the drop out on the non-drive side by not putting the wheel in right. I can't center the wheel anymore. I wish there was a steel or alloy dropouts on these frames.


----------



## turbomatic73

Anyone over 6 feet have some advice on sizing for a FM029? I am considering either a 58 or 60cm FM029. I am 6'2 and would prefer to go with the smaller of the two, but not sure if the 58 is going to be too small. THANKS!


----------



## ruckus

bugly64 said:


> I damaged the drop out on the non-drive side by not putting the wheel in right. I can't center the wheel anymore. I wish there was a steel or alloy dropouts on these frames.


Man, that's a shitty way to break the bike. Such a small piece. When I saw the dropouts were carbon, it did surprise me. Having the clinchers squeeze like that on carbon. Would have thought it would have steel inserts where the axle meets the frame. But I see most carbon frames are like this.



turbomatic73 said:


> Anyone over 6 feet have some advice on sizing for a FM029? I am considering either a 58 or 60cm FM029. I am 6'2 and would prefer to go with the smaller of the two, but not sure if the 58 is going to be too small. THANKS!


Bike Fit Calculator | Find Your Bike Size | Competitive Cyclist

Figure out what the top tube needs to be. So if the 58 top tube is long enough, then go with that. Height isn't issue since you can raise the seatpost and adjust the saddle position. I would aim for a top tube + 110mm stem to be the correct reach.

Though not a fan of the FM029, it should be called Trek Madone clone.


----------



## BacDoc

Anybody know the frame replica of the Pinarello F8?

How about the Giant Defy?


----------



## ruckus

BacDoc said:


> Anybody know the frame replica of the Pinarello F8?
> 
> How about the Giant Defy?


Why would you want a Giant Defy replica? You can search for F8 on Aliexpress. Plenty of them, I think there are 3 different sellers. But again, why would you want a Giant Defy clone? It's a generic entry level frame. Did you mean Giant Propel or TCR Advanced?


----------



## PauliG

BacDoc said:


> Anybody know the frame replica of the Pinarello F8?
> 
> How about the Giant Defy?


 All info either here or can be found with a bit of searching.


----------



## BacDoc

ruckus said:


> Why would you want a Giant Defy replica? You can search for F8 on Aliexpress. Plenty of them, I think there are 3 different sellers. But again, why would you want a Giant Defy clone? It's a generic entry level frame. Did you mean Giant Propel or TCR Advanced?


Giant Defy is their endurance bike like the Trek Domane, Specialized Roubaix or Bianchi Infinito. Hardly entry level. Was looking to build 2 bikes, one more race oriented and one more endurance. If searching gave me the answer I wouldn't be asking here.

Thanks for those who can steer me in the right direction.


----------



## ericTheHalf

turbomatic73 said:


> Anyone over 6 feet have some advice on sizing for a FM029? I am considering either a 58 or 60cm FM029. I am 6'2 and would prefer to go with the smaller of the two, but not sure if the 58 is going to be too small. THANKS!


I am also 6'2" and have a 60cm FMO28, which was replaced by the 029. I don't think you'd fine the 58 too small. I don't find the 60 too big, but if you prefer small I think the 58 would be okay. In a previous version of this thread I posted a pic of me on it. Look for that and maybe it will help you decide.

-eric


----------



## ruckus

BacDoc said:


> Giant Defy is their endurance bike like the Trek Domane, Specialized Roubaix or Bianchi Infinito. Hardly entry level.


More like Specialized Secteur. Giant was lazy and made a carbon version of it instead of making a Roubaix or a Domane. Defy Advanced SL may be a $7,000 bike, but that doesn't mean it's not just a hi-mod carbon version of an entry level bike like a Specialized Secteur.

To answer your question, I haven't seen any open mold or factory direct endurance type frame. There are some more relaxed racing frames similar to Trek Modane, the FM029, R002 frames.

You could try the Zhongwei Z-CB-R-043. It's Cervelo R5 clone but it has the comfort geometry you want from a Defy. But Zhongwei claim it's 850g, but how do they do that without sacrificing strength and durability with T700? Scott, Cervelo, etc had to use T1000+ to do that.


----------



## BacDoc

Thanks Rukus!

Exactly what I was looking for.


----------



## Kuroine

Which handlebars would you guys recommend? This or that?

View attachment 301594
View attachment 301595


----------



## myhui

*buying from Alibaba*

The new trend is that some suppliers outside of China are listing on this website now. But of course, those suppliers have many other websites to sell their goods on, not just here. But if they want to sell them in China, then they do well by listing them here.

Carbon Crankset-Carbon Crankset Manufacturers, Suppliers and Exporters on Alibaba.comBicycle Crank & Chainwheel


----------



## FullRageAce

I have plenty of questions about the R-002 model frame, wanted to get this one out of the way though. For the R-002 carbon frame, does a front Derailleur 34.9mm Band-on braze work ok for this build?
Also was looking to pick up some rims that support tubeless set up for between $120-300, if anyone has any suggestions.
Any tips for getting around any quirks on assembly?
I am using shimano components so far.


----------



## bvber

FullRageAce said:


> For the R-002 carbon frame, does a front Derailleur 34.9mm Band-on braze work ok for this build?


Yes.


> Any tips for getting around any quirks on assembly?


I didn't notice anything unusual when assembling my R-002 frame.


----------



## redstarcap

I used to have R-002 myself, didnt encounter any problem at the frame, although the seatpost and stem have some problem. End up buying new seatpost, while the stem is usable but the bolt a little corroded after 1 year


----------



## iYT

saad said:


>





Bootje said:


>


Hello guy and gals. Been lurking for a few days and read a ridiculous amount before I decided to finally post. 
I've been looking at these two bikes trying to decide which to buy. I have seen that the R5-ish is sold buy a few companies and is either T700 or T800 depending on the seller. If i go with it I'm leaning towards Feel, I like their cable inserts better. I'm aware *MMsRepBike* had bad luck, *SAAD* the opposite, and *NirVELOvana *went with a different seller. The second bike I have only found at HongFu (HF-FM069) and is T1000, there is a thread on another forum but most posts are about the HF-FM066. 

Sorry foe the essay but would any of you (*SAAD, NirVELOvana, Bootje) *mind giving me an idea of your thoughts now that you have been able to put some miles on these frames? Or anybody else that has these frames.

Thanks in advance

Great lookin bikes by the way:thumbsup:


----------



## ZachUA

Ordered a frame from great keen. When I check tracking it says origin of singapore. Is that normal? I thought they were based out of china.


----------



## Ricey155

ruckus said:


> Probably did, but still want to ask, did you buy the proper brake pads made for carbon rims?


Yes ruckus I'll never again use carbon wheels for downhill again unless they have Ali tracks 

Scary paddling to stop


----------



## Bluebatmobile

I'm tempted to pull the trigger on a Look 695 or Specialized Venge from oem-carbon.com. Thoughts?

[email protected]


----------



## fronesis

Bluebatmobile said:


> I'm tempted to pull the trigger on a Look 695 or Specialized Venge from oem-carbon.com. Thoughts?
> 
> [email protected]


That site looks dicey to me, and they seem to be selling replicas – I thought that wasn't allowed here. Please correct me if I'm wrong; I'd never seen that site until now and am just going by way I glanced at.


----------



## Ricey155

Thoughts ? Be happy chucking it away or buy British very happy with my R-041 but I totally expected to lose out on the £450 spent, worth a punt just don't expect warranty to be sorted quickly


----------



## Bluebatmobile

my bad.

[email protected]


----------



## LONDON-GUY

can anyone here tell me who is making this frame














Thanks


----------



## MMsRepBike

Those pictures are photoshopped. Looks like a Tarmac to me.


----------



## LONDON-GUY

Thanks for the quick reply Its on ebay item # 221605649646 but there is no mention of it being a Specialized frame and the cable entry points on the frame look just the same as the Chinese frames ?


----------



## MMsRepBike

Not quite the same as the fake tarmacs I'm used to seeing. Something screams sketchy to me about that frame. That size and the one up have identical reach so I don't believe them that it doesn't fit. You can tell that the pictures are clearly photoshopped, but not at first glance, you have to look. Lots of warning bells going off. But I can't help with who makes the frame because like I said it doesn't quite look like other knock-offs.


----------



## colorzeppelin

Hi there people,

I live/work in China and want to buy a carbon frame. The most sold one on taobao.com (their ebay) is a model by what seems to be Tan-Tan bikes, Seraph team? model number FM286, not to be confused with the cyclocross FM286 made by HongFu.
It's similar to the Giant Propel advanced.
I plan on equipping it with Tiagra, and trying to keep it under 5000RMB which is close to 500GBP. I know it's cheap but buying a bike here for that much is considered wasteful.
I was wondering if you have some advice and if there is any frame similar from HF or DF that I might consider.
Link to their website
Taobao Page
Dropbox image folder


----------



## FullRageAce

Been waiting 12 days since payment and tracking isn't showing any updates. How long did it take any other people in the USA to get their shipment?


----------



## Kuroine

It took me 4 days to get the frame. They shipped on Monday, arrived on Thursday (didn't pick up from post till Friday however). I bought from miracle


----------



## JoostG

FullRageAce said:


> I have plenty of questions about the R-002 model frame, wanted to get this one out of the way though. For the R-002 carbon frame, does a front Derailleur 34.9mm Band-on braze work ok for this build?
> Also was looking to pick up some rims that support tubeless set up for between $120-300, if anyone has any suggestions.
> Any tips for getting around any quirks on assembly?
> I am using shimano components so far.


About the tubeless rims: Farsports (wheelsfar.com) has carbon rims that can be run tubeless. I'm using them already since last January.

R-002 assembly is quite straight forward. I run mine with campa Chorus 11 speed.


----------



## snailmale

Hi, I own a FM098 that was branded by a local company (which has since gone bust or disappeared). It is of the ISP variant.

I ride with my saddle slammed all the way forward, and could probably do with it a bit further forward. I also have a new carbon rail saddle on the way and hopefully that has rails that are at least as long if not longer.

I was wondering if anyone knew whether there is a zero-setback (or less setback than default) version of the ISP mast available - I asked Dengfu but they did not seem to understand my question too well.

P.S. for those who are intending to use oversized ovalised carbon rails, you can order the replacement side-load clamp direct from Dengfu - they quoted me $8 for it.


----------



## cmg

same boat curious about Velo builds R-055. Couldn't really find any negative reviews and they offer a 2 year warranty. so close to pulling the trigger. any intel would help.


----------



## jlandry

There's a good sale at Velobuild right now.


----------



## .je

I think I'd posted a similar question in the frames thread, but maybe not clear enough... I hear only good things about this frame, but nothing that's really specific about handling or ride. Just that 'it's comparable to endurance bikes', even tho its geo doesn't really look endurance, actually closer to H2 geo. Is it similar to Madone or TCR?. 

Is this the same as R-002, just updated, with flattened seat stays or other updates? 


How would this compare to R-028, FR-322, or maybe R-016?


----------



## goodboyr

Just built up one for a friend. Its the cervelo r series clone with internal cabling. Just a couple of minor issues related to getting the di2 cable into the downtube. Had to slightly dremel the hole in the removable cable stop. Front fork brake bolt is tricky because of where they have the internal shoulder. It only picks up about 4 threads on the bolt. As well, needed a washer or two under the rear brake bolt. Thats about all I can think of. Frame was about 950 gms with hardware so not bad.


----------



## cmg

Just put in an order for the R-055. I've been looking at the r-055 for a week. got tired of looking at it. the geometry is vey similar to the Cervelo R3-5 frame. The top tube is 4mm longer, everything else is the same even the asymestric chainstays (non-drive side is larger) in the 48cm size. we'll see.


----------



## CycleguyJoe

goodboyr said:


> Just built up one for a friend. Its the cervelo r series clone with internal cabling. Just a couple of minor issues related to getting the di2 cable into the downtube. Had to slightly dremel the hole in the removable cable stop. Front fork brake bolt is tricky because of where they have the internal shoulder. It only picks up about 4 threads on the bolt. As well, needed a washer or two under the rear brake bolt. Thats about all I can think of. Frame was about 950 gms with hardware so not bad.


Hi,
You're the guy I've been looking for. Would you mind some questions?

1. How's the fit and finish on the frame?
2. Did you get any of the added carbon bits? Stem, bar, seatpost? Other?
3. How well were other pieces finished?
4. Regarding the headset;
How well made?
Does the frame accommodate headset pieces well?
Would you have preferred another product?
5. Regarding the fork;
Well finished?
Alloy dropout slots?
Clean fiber steer tube?
6. Any issues with installing internally routed cable? Did you have continuous housing to point of termination?

Thanks in advance
Joe F


----------



## .je

I'm still interested in the R-022. Hard to find on the Chinese Carbon thread. Has anyone here built or rode one?

You'd think Velo Build :: Topics in VB-R-022 (1/2) is the place to look, but it's all for building, not riding.


----------



## FullRageAce

I am building a VB R-002, the frame set should be in next week. I will be using a mechanical 6800 groupo along with my hand built wheels (built by me). Will make a build thread, with pic, video and riding footage, along with riding feedback.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bikes-frames-forks/r-002-carbon-frame-build-review-342629.html


----------



## goodboyr

*Re: Newbie looking for Velobuild R-022 experience*

Answers below. 



CycleguyJoe said:


> Hi,
> You're the guy I've been looking for. Would you mind some questions?
> 
> 1. How's the fit and finish on the frame?
> Pretty good. A bit rough at edges of molds (around bb and headset cups) but otherwise OK. A bit of waviness along some parts but for the money its OK.
> 2. Did you get any of the added carbon bits? Stem, bar, seatpost? Other?
> Yes. Got the edge clone bars and stem. I do no recommend these. Stem has a very sharp edge that cuts into bars, bars are light but very flexible.
> 
> 3. How well were other pieces finished?
> 4. Regarding the headset;
> How well made?
> Does the frame accommodate headset pieces well?
> Would you have preferred another product?
> Headset was fine. Split crown race makes fit easy. So far no issues.
> 5. Regarding the fork;
> Well finished?
> Alloy dropout slots?
> Clean fiber steer tube?
> Fine other than brake bolt issues already described.
> 6. Any issues with installing internally routed cable? Did you have continuous housing to point of termination?
> Not sure what you mean. There are cable stops bits as part of frame. Very easy build.
> Thanks in advance
> Joe F


----------



## FullRageAce

*R-002 Carbon Frame Build and Review*

In October I developed a random fondness towards road cycling. I don't have any experience with building, training, testing, except for riding a old roommates trek mountain bike on occasion about 4 years ago.

After doing some research i found that a entry level name brand road bike would cost me around $1,500. Thats with basic wheels, components, etc...
After figuring that, I ran across Chinese carbon bike frames, decided that they are a cheaper and decent alternative. Not to mention that many name brand bike makers get there parts from China/Asia. Probably not from the same factory line as those but I have a feeling that they aren't that bad either. Many others seem to have great experience.

I bought a R-002 frame set from Velobuild, one of the vendors who sell this model. The experience doing business with them has been good so far. I placed the order and got my parts about 3 weeks later.

Here is a list of everything that is going into it:
Frame Build:
R-022 Carbon Fiber Road Bike Frame Set 52cm, BSA
$349.00
HB-005 Carbon Fiber Integrated Handlebars
$100.00
Shimano Ultegra 6800 Groupset: 170mm 34/50 chain set, 11/28 cassette, Front Derailleur 34.9mm Band-on
$684.36


Wheel Build: (BikeHubStore, hand built by me)
UltraLight Front Road Hub - white
$54.95
SL210 SuperLight Rear Hub - white
$79.95
BHS C472w Clincher Rims - 23mm wide - 28mm deep 24 front 28 rear 2x laced
$109.09
Sapim Race spokes black
$46.80
Sapim Aluminum nipples black
$20.80
Round PolyAx (HM) Washers
$10.00
Schwalbe Ultremo ZX Folding Tyre white/black
59.94

Extras:
BR-009 Carbon Fiber Water Bottle Cages
$21.00
P006 Carbon Fiber Seat Post
$27.00
SC-01 Seat Post Clamp ( Collar ) Alloy
$5.00
Shimano 105 5800 Carbon SPD-SL Pedals
$0
Carbon Fiber Spacer Set
$5.00

Total so far: $1,572 (I still need tubes, saddle and helmet)

Pictures of the frame and parts from Velobuild:








Box came with no damage








Parts right out the box








Unwrapped








Only tiny scratch, imperfection I noticed on everything








Inside head tube








Bottom bracket (it has the integrated bottom cable guides)








Put everything together to test fit, everything is only hand tight

The rest of my parts will be in next week, will update as I go along...

Finally got my group set via Merlins, took like 3 weeks.









Got a little stir crazy with just the frame so I ended up throwing some plasti-dip on it.


















So I started putting everything together, just by hand for the time being till I get the layout perfect. (I've never put a bike together)


----------



## TricrossRich

Nice... good luck with it. I'll be following your build.


----------



## 00Garza

I ride the R-002 as well. Has been great for me this last year and few months I've ridden it. Zhongwei's frames get good reviews, but I have heard some complaints on quality issues with other parts (handlebars, stems, saddles, etc.) Hope yours works out well.


----------



## bvber

Another R-002 rider here. My frame set from Zhongwei didn't have any scratches or noticeable flaws. I'm happy with the quality so far.


----------



## kurious2learn

cycle joe,
i second almost everything that goodboyr has said easpecially getting the front brakes bolted on.

i also bought an r055 and its been more than expected as the quality is great. two small issues but nothing a file could not fix in 10 seconds.
chris was a pleasure to deal with. example. sent me the incorrect bottle cages. i emailed him amd bam 5 days later i had the correct ones at no cost.
i also bought stem and bars with no issues - love them and the stems are so cheap i bought two different lengths just in case.


----------



## skitorski

Fullragerace, looks great. Do you mind telling where you sourced the Ultegra ? - thanks

Keep this updated !!!


----------



## LONDON-GUY

Here are a few pictures of my latest China carbon build. Frame is a Gotobike WS12 frame Paint has been done be me ans is almost ready for building up with Shimano 6800 but Dura ace chainset


----------



## Marzo92

When should I order to beat the Chinese New Year holiday delay?
Thanks.
Marzo92


----------



## 00Garza

Marzo92 said:


> When should I order to beat the Chinese New Year holiday delay?
> Thanks.
> Marzo92


Depends. Some frames have an expected build time if its not in stock. Sooner the better though.


----------



## myhui

LONDON-GUY said:


> Frame is a Gotobike WS12 frame


Did you order the BB86 configuration?


----------



## FullRageAce

skitorski said:


> Fullragerace, looks great. Do you mind telling where you sourced the Ultegra ? - thanks
> 
> Keep this updated !!!


I checked Merlins and Ribble. Ended up going with merlin since they threw in some free shimano pedals to sweeten the deal.



Marzo92 said:


> When should I order to beat the Chinese New Year holiday delay?
> Thanks.
> Marzo92


Just email the vendors, they will let you know. They tend to keep frames in stock it seems other parts might need around 7 days to fab up.


----------



## Gili

I bought a R041 Velobuild framework in May / 2014. I had a problem on seatpost that were sending me a new and so far nothing. In early November found a cracked the seat tube, I sent an email to Chris the Velobuild and so far I am unanswered. I also bought a pair of rear hangers that were not sent (a friend also expects a couple of bottle cages). Tired of waiting for a response, I posted them on youtube and forum, but the messages are deleted.


It is my warranty registration of Velobuild.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKhl9HxVNDM&index=4&list=UUcC8HAXEywUTaohO1y6Ew7Q


----------



## Ricey155

Jesus bad news


Gili said:


> I bought a R041 Velobuild framework in May / 2014. I had a problem on seatpost that were sending me a new and so far nothing. In early November found a cracked the seat tube, I sent an email to Chris the Velobuild and so far I am unanswered. I also bought a pair of rear hangers that were not sent (a friend also expects a couple of bottle cages). Tired of waiting for a response, I posted them on youtube and forum, but the messages are deleted


----------



## rider3000

Ricey155 said:


> Jesus bad news
> 
> 
> Gili said:
> 
> 
> 
> I bought a R041 Velobuild framework in May / 2014. I had a problem on seatpost that were sending me a new and so far nothing. In early November found a cracked the seat tube, I sent an email to Chris the Velobuild and so far I am unanswered. I also bought a pair of rear hangers that were not sent (a friend also expects a couple of bottle cages). Tired of waiting for a response, I posted them on youtube and forum, but the messages are deleted
> 
> 
> 
> Thats shocking service !!! Myself and 2 of my friends was just about to pull the trigger on 3 frames... but i dont think their service will make us happy. Thanks for the post Ricey155.:thumbsup:
Click to expand...


----------



## Jakak

I think that Velobuild is well known as "one side" seller. Offcourse he is ok if all goes well, but as soon as something goes wrong, you face the "wall" of ignorance :mad2:.
Beside that, their so called forum is used only for positive informations and all the treads and replies are monitored by admin before they get published, so you can imagine why only perfect things are written on it


----------



## bkwrx

Hello how was your experience with dhgate, which seller did you purchase from?


----------



## boboxx

Hello,

Anyone know who makes this frame? I have a seen a few similar frame but none that uses that derailleur hanger and those cable plug/location on down tube.

Wholesale Product Snapshot Product name is T800 hot sale carbon frame road bikeRca Carbon RCA/R5 frames Fit for electronic and mechanical

Thanks


----------



## Kuroine

Recently finished a F8 Chinarello build. Bought my frame from Miracle.


----------



## jm387

*Handlebars question*



FullRageAce said:


> In October I developed a random fondness towards road cycling. I don't have any experience with building, training, testing, except for riding a old roommates trek mountain bike on occasion about 4 years ago.
> 
> After doing some research i found that a entry level name brand road bike would cost me around $1,500. Thats with basic wheels, components, etc...
> After figuring that, I ran across Chinese carbon bike frames, decided that they are a cheaper and decent alternative. Not to mention that many name brand bike makers get there parts from China/Asia. Probably not from the same factory line as those but I have a feeling that they aren't that bad either. Many others seem to have great experience.
> 
> I bought a R-002 frame set from Velobuild, one of the vendors who sell this model. The experience doing business with them has been good so far. I placed the order and got my parts about 3 weeks later.
> 
> Here is a list of everything that is going into it:
> Frame Build:
> R-022 Carbon Fiber Road Bike Frame Set 52cm, BSA
> $349.00
> HB-005 Carbon Fiber Integrated Handlebars
> $100.00
> Shimano Ultegra 6800 Groupset: 170mm 34/50 chain set, 11/28 cassette, Front Derailleur 34.9mm Band-on
> $684.36
> 
> 
> Wheel Build: (BikeHubStore, hand built by me)
> UltraLight Front Road Hub - white
> $54.95
> SL210 SuperLight Rear Hub - white
> $79.95
> BHS C472w Clincher Rims - 23mm wide - 28mm deep 24 front 28 rear 2x laced
> $109.09
> Sapim Race spokes black
> $46.80
> Sapim Aluminum nipples black
> $20.80
> Round PolyAx (HM) Washers
> $10.00
> Schwalbe Ultremo ZX Folding Tyre white/black
> 59.94
> 
> <snip>
> 
> The rest of my parts will be in next week, will update as I go along...


FullRageAce:

I have a build with the same handlebars. Have you come across anything helpful for the cable installation? Are they close enough to a brand name set of bars that I can use a manufacturer's installation instructions?</snip>


----------



## Ricey155

Jakak said:


> I think that Velobuild is well known as "one side" seller. Offcourse he is ok if all goes well, but as soon as something goes wrong, you face the "wall" of ignorance :mad2:.
> Beside that, their so called forum is used only for positive informations and all the treads and replies are monitored by admin before they get published, so you can imagine why only perfect things are written on it


I agree - but I can't fault my own R-041 /FM099 build, mine has just been niggles 

A bit like finding a spare saddle clamp bolt 55mm long  just the bolt is impossible , my bike is 6000 miles in going well 

Forum is useless, frames OK accessories below average.


----------



## FullRageAce

I will post up this week and let you know. My order from merlins is taking forever. It should be in finally tomorrow with my shifters and cables. Looking over the frame and bars everything seems like it would be ok to run cables through.
Are you having trouble getting them through or whats causing an issue?

Here is a pic of some routing from the bars, its not internal though but will serve pretty much the same example:








Those are the brakes, the other set are the shift cables. Just be sure to make any curves rounded out so they aren't putting too much kink tension. Also run the housing through the bars but the stops built into the frame are made to set the housings up into and run just the bare cable through.
I will post mine up when I finish them.


----------



## jm387

FullRageAce said:


> I will post up this week and let you know. My order from merlins is taking forever. It should be in finally tomorrow with my shifters and cables. Looking over the frame and bars everything seems like it would be ok to run cables through.
> Are you having trouble getting them through or whats causing an issue?


nk

No issues but neither I nor my buddy have experience with internal routing and were'looking for guidance to ensure no errors 
Thought they might be similar enough to a branded set to follow as an example but haven't found a close match


----------



## kanekikapu

Kuroine said:


> Recently finished a F8 Chinarello build. Bought my frame from Miracle.
> 
> View attachment 302354


How's the ride so far? Frame/fork weight?


----------



## oclax03

Does anyone have experience with or thoughts on the velobuild R-016 or R-055 frames? I'm looking to use either 105 5800 or Ultegra 6800 cranks, can the BBright bottom bracket on the R-055 be made to work with either of those?


----------



## [email protected]

I've received my replacement clamp for the Velobuild R-051. Problem with slipping seat post stays, driving me mad :cryin:

I've had it with this frame. I asked for a refund (sending the frame back) but no answer so far. I'll wait until tommorow and then I'll use Paypal dispute.

edit: i will be sent a new seatpost, if this doesn't work, the sale will be annuled and I'll get my money back, hopefully.


----------



## edwinfe

Does anyone have experience with Oem-carbon?


----------



## Kuroine

Not too sure about weight, as I don't have a scale, but frame seems to be around 1100 grams and fork 3-400 grams. Bike is around mid-high 16's. About the ride quality, I don't have any experience with any other road bikes (this is my first one), but it feels okay. Definitely a lot faster than my MTB, but riding is still tiring. Hope this helps. 

Total build cost around $1300 USD w/ SRAM Apex.


----------



## FullRageAce

My group set finally came in and the 6800 ultegra bottom bracket isn't threading well. It will thread a couple turns in and then gets very stiff and resists.
I cleaned out the bsa bracket threads but i think there is a problem with them.

Did anyone else have to get their frames bb chased so that the bb would fit and screw on properly?


----------



## jm387

Same problem with my VBR041. Left side threaded easily, but right would not. My friend retapped it for me. He thought it was a combination of paint and a dull tool that caused the problem


----------



## SirVelo'

FullRageAce said:


> My group set finally came in and the 6800 ultegra bottom bracket isn't threading well. It will thread a couple turns in and then gets very stiff and resists.
> I cleaned out the bsa bracket threads but i think there is a problem with them.
> 
> Did anyone else have to get their frames bb chased so that the bb would fit and screw on properly?


Pretty normal ti have to get a bb chased to clean up the threads.


----------



## FullRageAce

Ended up stopping by the lbs, they said they would go ahead and tap the bb. Also that i damaged one side of the shimano bb insert threads but its still usable.
Told me to bring my crank set as well and they would face, chase and install the bb and crank for $30.
I was surprised by the reasonable service fee.

Trying to figure out what to do with all the mixed cable housings and little bag of parts the shifters came with. Seems like maybe i need to cut to fit but not sure which are housings for brake and the shifting cables. Non of the housings seem like coil style, all strait.
I'll have my frame back tomorrow with a fresh tap'd bb.


----------



## FullRageAce

FullRageAce said:


> In October I developed a random fondness towards road cycling. I don't have any experience with building, training, testing, except for riding a old roommates trek mountain bike on occasion about 4 years ago.
> 
> After doing some research i found that a entry level name brand road bike would cost me around $1,500. Thats with basic wheels, components, etc...
> After figuring that, I ran across Chinese carbon bike frames, decided that they are a cheaper and decent alternative. Not to mention that many name brand bike makers get there parts from China/Asia. Probably not from the same factory line as those but I have a feeling that they aren't that bad either. Many others seem to have great experience.
> 
> I bought a R-002 frame set from Velobuild, one of the vendors who sell this model. The experience doing business with them has been good so far. I placed the order and got my parts about 3 weeks later.
> 
> Here is a list of everything that is going into it:
> Frame Build:
> R-022 Carbon Fiber Road Bike Frame Set 52cm, BSA
> $349.00
> HB-005 Carbon Fiber Integrated Handlebars
> $100.00
> Shimano Ultegra 6800 Groupset: 170mm 34/50 chain set, 11/28 cassette, Front Derailleur 34.9mm Band-on
> $684.36
> 
> 
> Wheel Build: (BikeHubStore, hand built by me)
> UltraLight Front Road Hub - white
> $54.95
> SL210 SuperLight Rear Hub - white
> $79.95
> BHS C472w Clincher Rims - 23mm wide - 28mm deep 24 front 28 rear 2x laced
> $109.09
> Sapim Race spokes black
> $46.80
> Sapim Aluminum nipples black
> $20.80
> Round PolyAx (HM) Washers
> $10.00
> Schwalbe Ultremo ZX Folding Tyre white/black
> 59.94
> 
> Extras:
> BR-009 Carbon Fiber Water Bottle Cages
> $21.00
> P006 Carbon Fiber Seat Post
> $27.00
> SC-01 Seat Post Clamp ( Collar ) Alloy
> $5.00
> Shimano 105 5800 Carbon SPD-SL Pedals
> $0
> Carbon Fiber Spacer Set
> $5.00
> 
> Total so far: $1,572 (I still need tubes, saddle and helmet)
> 
> Pictures of the frame and parts from Velobuild:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Box came with no damage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Parts right out the box
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unwrapped
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only tiny scratch, imperfection I noticed on everything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inside head tube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bottom bracket (it has the integrated bottom cable guides)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Put everything together to test fit, everything is only hand tight
> 
> The rest of my parts will be in next week, will update as I go along...
> 
> Finally got my group set via Merlins, took like 3 weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got a little stir crazy with just the frame so I ended up throwing some plasti-dip on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I started putting everything together, just by hand for the time being till I get the layout perfect. (I've never put a bike together)


Everything feels right so far, the shifter set came with some housings, those were easy to figure out BUT it also came with a little bag of hardware (shimano 6800 ultegra shifters).
What do I do with these little varying parts?


----------



## robt57

FullRageAce said:


> I ended up throwing some plasti-dip on it.



What is Plasti-dip, is that why it is white now and not black/carbon in that pic>?


----------



## FullRageAce

robt57 said:


> What is Plasti-dip, is that why it is white now and not black/carbon in that pic>?


Plasti Dip is a rubberized compound that can be sprayed on most surfaces with little (wipe off the surface) to no prep.
You spray it on, its easy to use, doesn't run like paint. You can just peel it off when you are tired of it.
The finish and texture is different than paint but I picked up 2 spray can @ $6 a pop from walmart so I can't complain. The white is hard to keep clean and will stain though. Haven't figured out how to get grease off it yet.
I've actually used it by the gallon to paint one of my bmws. (No I am not well off just like cool old cars like e30 bmws)


----------



## P3T3R

Gili said:


> I bought a R041 Velobuild framework in May / 2014. I had a problem on seatpost that were sending me a new and so far nothing. In early November found a cracked the seat tube, I sent an email to Chris the Velobuild and so far I am unanswered. I also bought a pair of rear hangers that were not sent (a friend also expects a couple of bottle cages). Tired of waiting for a response, I posted them on youtube and forum, but the messages are deleted.It is my warranty registration of Velobuild.


I've just noticed that the Forum section of Velobuild is "Under Maintanence" for several days now.


----------



## ptsbike55

FullRageAce said:


> Everything feels right so far, the shifter set came with some housings, those were easy to figure out BUT it also came with a little bag of hardware (shimano 6800 ultegra shifters).
> What do I do with these little varying parts?


Those go over the cables and the cable housing fits into the larger part. I didn't know they provided them with Ultegra shifters. I recently bought the Dura Ace 9001 11 speed shifters. My understanding is that Shimano had issues with the 9000 shifters cutting the cables, so they rerouted the cables and included those inserts so the cables would not rub on anything that could cut them.


----------



## ms6073

FullRageAce said:


> What do I do with these little varying parts?


The short and long nosed plastic ferules are for each end of the shift cable housing between the shifter and cable ports on the frame. The short nosed ferules has a slot that is aligned/inserted in the shift cable slot for each shifter. The metal ferules are for the rear brake cable where the housing enters the frame at the front and exists at the rear. The alloy cable ends are crimped onto the ends of the brake and shift cables once they are installed/cut to length and prevent the stranded cables from unraveling but for a really upscale look, you can


----------



## ptsbike55

I didn't know people still soldered cable ends. That is old school for sure.


----------



## FullRageAce

Thanks for being so specific, good looking out ^^
Here are a couple pics for the guy trying to route cables through his integrated handlebars.
The shifter housing/cable is a tight fit, had to make a sharp bend/turn to get it to sit in the shifter housing.
You can swap the brake and shift cable routing, the route I used was more proper but could cause slower shifting. When it comes time to replace the cables I am rerouting it that way.


----------



## P3T3R

Kuroine said:


> Recently finished a F8 Chinarello build. Bought my frame from Miracle.


Can you post a link of the store you bought it from? Also how was the experience dealing with them.


----------



## FullRageAce

Anyone else have a R-002 and had no choice but to make a sharp bend in the shifter cable/housing to get it through the handle bars into the shift lever slot?
I am worried it might effect my shifting b/c of too much friction in the cable.


----------



## Kuroine

P3T3R said:


> Can you post a link of the store you bought it from? Also how was the experience dealing with them.


I bought the frame from their alibaba storefront. Here is a link to the frame: Super Strong China Carbon Frame, Carbon Fiber Bike Frame F8 , Road Carbon Fiber Bike Frame, View Carbon Fiber Bike Frame , OEM Product Details from Shenzhen Miraclebike Sports Equipment Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com. I found it best to talk though live chat/email. They were very responsive and answered all of the questions I had, no matter how persistent I was. However, there is a time difference, so make sure you match your emails to their working hours (8-11 china time). After I ordered, it took about a week to finish the matte coating of the frame, then it shipped. Shipping was fast, only took about 4-5 days, from China to California. Let me know if you have anymore questions.


----------



## bvber

FullRageAce said:


> Anyone else have a R-002 and had no choice but to make a sharp bend in the shifter cable/housing to get it through the handle bars into the shift lever slot?
> I am worried it might effect my shifting b/c of too much friction in the cable.


I have R-002 but no such issue with the frame. Sounds like it has something to do with the handlebar and the shifter. What brand shifters are you using?


----------



## P3T3R

Kuroine said:


> Let me know if you have anymore questions.


Thanks for the info. Will ask you if I have any queries. Have sent a mail to them.


----------



## FullRageAce

Using ultegra 6800 shifters and the HB-005 Carbon Fiber Integrated Handlebars from velobuild.


----------



## dovid

*chinese frame ordered...*

i never bought from overseas before and wanted to ask regarding pickup. when the frame arrives to a local post office(NYC for me), do i need to go to the post office to pick up the box and pay a tariff, or does USPS deliver the package to the door? are tariffs always collected on all incoming international parcels? thank you.


----------



## LONDON-GUY

I cant answer your question as Im in the UK but what frame did you go for out of interest ?


----------



## dovid

FR-602 - glossy carbon, disc specific from ebay


----------



## LONDON-GUY

Looks good Hope it turns out well for you Im awaiting my third Chinese frame the 2 up to now have both been good frames.


----------



## LONDON-GUY

Link not working here


----------



## 00Garza

No tariffs in US, at least not when I bought mine last year. I had it shipped to my work office.


----------



## dovid

thank you for the info.

update: the frame arrived to my door today. indeed, no taxes.


----------



## 00Garza

Is the fm029 still the only thing out there with what is considered "relaxed" geometry?


----------



## FullRageAce

On the velobuild seat posts, how did you all install the seat/adjust it???
I am leaning more towards that front bolt that has just a square side up, not the allen type one.
Should I just remove it? Seems like the only way to tighten is with a hand wrench.


----------



## garfunkah

00Garza said:


> Is the fm029 still the only thing out there with what is considered "relaxed" geometry?


I think so. I haven't found anyone else. Zhongwei had one, Z-CB-R-026 which was drawn back due to production problem, I think with the seat tube.


----------



## bvber

Has anyone bought frames from Miracle Bike? It's another one of those Chinese frame companies but I didn't see any reviews on their product & service.


----------



## kiwisimon

FullRageAce said:


> Using ultegra 6800 shifters and the HB-005 Carbon Fiber Integrated Handlebars from velobuild.


It can help sometimes to remove the bars from the stem until you get the cables through, then re attach the bars to the stem and the cables should be fine. Don't cut until you have everything smooth and kink free.


----------



## Coolhand

*Moderators Note*

Reminder- no counterfeits please.


----------



## asherstash1

having a mare, ordered my fm206 from dengfu well over a month ago and still no delivery date.. yes it has paint and decals but still I was promised 2 weeks 5 weeks ago... anyone else having a go-slow on an order from dengfu atm?


----------



## 00Garza

asherstash1 said:


> having a mare, ordered my fm206 from dengfu well over a month ago and still no delivery date.. yes it has paint and decals but still I was promised 2 weeks 5 weeks ago... anyone else having a go-slow on an order from dengfu atm?


The Chinese New Year is a big deal and everything basically comes to a stand still for a while. Happened to me last year with a couple of bits I ordered right after Christmas.


----------



## nirVELOvana

00Garza said:


> asherstash1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...anyone else having a go-slow on an order from dengfu atm?
> 
> 
> 
> The Chinese New Year is a big deal and everything basically comes to a stand still for a while...
Click to expand...

Yeah. I could see how things could bottleneck in a month-long ramp-up to the actual holiday period. But two and a half months prior-to seems out of the ordinary — _in my experience anyway_. I would be on dengfu's butt like «_white on rice_» at this point.

Folks might want to make a note of these。。。


_GuoNianHao_
_XinNianHao_
_ChunJieKuaiLe_
。。。then time any orders you've planned—_and adjust your expectations_—accordingly.


----------



## ms6073

asherstash1 said:


> yes it has paint and decals but still I was promised 2 weeks 5 weeks ago...


That is actually pretty standard for Dengfu and new products. Keep in mind DengFu is not the actual manufacturer, simply a reseller/trading company that represents several manufacturers. So you are more than likely dealing with delays as a result of holiday schedules for 3-4 companies (frame, fork, paint, reseller) not to mention with the introduction of new models, the trading companies will often times post ridiculously short lead times before a single frame mold has even been completed. My advice, try Skype to contact them direct and if you paid by PayPal, keep track of when the 45-day window and file a dispute before the resolution period expires. For the most part, the trading companies start paying a whole lot more attention when PayPal starts prompting them that a transaction will be refunded.


----------



## lacofdfireman

How come none of these factories offer 61cm bikes? I haven't found one from any of them.


----------



## asherstash1

I had a reply yest saying although it was done, she wasn't happy with paint job and was having redone... so this is good, but i'm glad im away at work coz if I was at home waiting I would be fuming. its this old story f managing expectations, if you tell me it will be bloody ages cos I want custom stuff and theer gonna be holidays then tell me so and I can choose based on that info you know, dnt just say it'll be a week when you knw it will be a month... ho hum


----------



## MMsRepBike

lacofdfireman said:


> How come none of these factories offer 61cm bikes? I haven't found one from any of them.


Because Asians are short.


----------



## 00Garza

MMsRepBike said:


> Because Asians are short.


Thats racist! Lol! Simply put, the highest demand sizes are what will see production. There are a few models that come in 60cm, but can't think of them off the top of my head.


----------



## asherstash1

to be fair having just moved back to Europe after 3 years in Malaysia and Thailand... I miss being the tall one in the street... and i'm 5,8"


----------



## [email protected]

asherstash1 said:


> I had a reply yest saying although it was done, she wasn't happy with paint job and was having redone... so this is good, but i'm glad im away at work coz if I was at home waiting I would be fuming. its this old story f managing expectations, if you tell me it will be bloody ages cos I want custom stuff and theer gonna be holidays then tell me so and I can choose based on that info you know, dnt just say it'll be a week when you knw it will be a month... ho hum


If she didn't sent you a picture, she's just staling and giving excuses. Your frame just isn't ready then.

I've got my seatpost working now, did my first long ride yesterday (117km) and everything was fine (needs a little tweaks to the positioning)
The R-051 rides nice, very direct and pretty hard (coming from an Orbea Onix, comfortracer)
Took a picture during my ride:









Although it's all fine now, I wouldn't buy Chinese again. The problem I had with the seatpost slipping just didn't get resolved by Velobuild. Chris said he would sent a new seatclamp, took 4 weeks, this didn't solve the problem. The he would send a new seatpost, we're almost 4 weeks on and it still hasn't been sent.

I found a carbon repair guy and have him lay some more carbon around the seatpost, this did the trick.

If I would need to start over, I'd just go with a CAAD10 disc or so, it may be alu but it's hardly more expensive and when something's wrong, you can go to the dealer and it gets fixed faster.


----------



## ms6073

[email protected] said:


> Although it's all fine now, I wouldn't buy Chinese again. The problem I had with the seatpost slipping just didn't get resolved by Velobuild.


I am a hands on type, and will readily admit that dealing direct with the trading companies in China can be a bit of a roller coaster ride, but I much prefer that to the 'Velobuild' concept.


----------



## cansprint

I have the same frame and same issue...I believe its a tapered 1-1/8 - 1-1/2.
I saw some FSA ones on ebay at a decent price.
cheers


----------



## 00Garza

ms6073 said:


> I am a hands on type, and will readily admit that dealing direct with the trading companies in China can be a bit of a roller coaster ride, but I much prefer that to the 'Velobuild' concept.


Same here. Its just adding another layer (middle man) of complexity to the process.


----------



## syraleo

[email protected] said:


> If she didn't sent you a picture, she's just staling and giving excuses. Your frame just isn't ready then.
> 
> I've got my seatpost working now, did my first long ride yesterday (117km) and everything was fine (needs a little tweaks to the positioning)
> The R-051 rides nice, very direct and pretty hard (coming from an Orbea Onix, comfortracer)
> Took a picture during my ride:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although it's all fine now, I wouldn't buy Chinese again. The problem I had with the seatpost slipping just didn't get resolved by Velobuild. Chris said he would sent a new seatclamp, took 4 weeks, this didn't solve the problem. The he would send a new seatpost, we're almost 4 weeks on and it still hasn't been sent.
> 
> I found a carbon repair guy and have him lay some more carbon around the seatpost, this did the trick.
> 
> If I would need to start over, I'd just go with a CAAD10 disc or so, it may be alu but it's hardly more expensive and when something's wrong, you can go to the dealer and it gets fixed faster.


that's interesting. my chinarello has a slipping seatpost too but i googled and found that it can be solved with a simple carbon fibre assembly gel (or grip).

turns out its pretty useful, it has little "grits" in it that grip the seatpost, it worked fantastically for my trek remedy mtb and specialized command post, the command post kept slipping no matter what until i spammed it with the cf grip gel.


----------



## cyclist_sg

Hi all,
This is my new FM-186 frameset.


----------



## infes7

Just received my Velobuild R-022 on Jan 5th ordered on Dec 16th. All great packaging, everything was wrapped carefully. Ordered a raw frame since I have my buddies at my job paint her up. Went with full Shimano 5800 105 11 speed grouppo, Vuelta Corsa SLR wheelset, Continental Grand Prix 4000 S II 25c tires, purple hope seat post clamp, purple jagwire cables. So hopefully by Monday I'll be able to get her built up.


----------



## asherstash1

the 186 looks good, interesting to see some of the newer frame models coming up!


----------



## LONDON-GUY

cyclist_sg said:


> Hi all,
> This is my new FM-186 frameset.
> 
> View attachment 302954
> 
> View attachment 302955


Looks good who did you purchase your frame from ?


----------



## 00Garza

Thinking switching from my R-002 to something a little more relaxed. Does anyone know if the Zhongwei R-027 is the same as the Dengfu Fm-029? They both seem very Madone inspired with similar (but not exactly) geometry according to the charts, and both have options for isp.

Fm029








R-027


----------



## cyclist_sg

The seller is from Shenzhen Miraclebike Sports Equipment Co., Ltd on Alibaba. This design is the FM-186 which is a close resemblence to an AVANTI Corsa DR (1 or 2 ?).

BTW, there is a new FM-286 which is an improved finishing version of the FM-186 available but lost the link, haveing seen it a few days ago.


----------



## asherstash1

View attachment 303019


woohoo frame ready to ship! now, only got to do 4.5 more weeks at sea, doing stupid exercises to keep in any sort of shape, get home and build it!


----------



## aerodynamics

This should be a simple question for most of you to answer but I am certainly having a hard time wrapping my mind around it...

I am in the process of building up a Hongfu FM039 and am at the cabling stage. I've watched countless vids of bike builds along the way but cannot find a definitive answer on how the gear and brake cables should be routed. 

The FM039, from what I can tell, has tubing inside the frame for the cables. My question is, am I supposed to guide the cable as well as the outers the full length of the frame? Or should the outer only be used on the exposed bits of cable? I have seen it done both ways which is the confusing thing. I want to get it right the first time before I start riding alongside San Francisco traffic only to find my gears won't shift. 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## BeanTownRoadie

aerodynamics said:


> This should be a simple question for most of you to answer but I am certainly having a hard time wrapping my mind around it...
> 
> I am in the process of building up a Hongfu FM039 and am at the cabling stage. I've watched countless vids of bike builds along the way but cannot find a definitive answer on how the gear and brake cables should be routed.
> 
> The FM039, from what I can tell, has tubing inside the frame for the cables. My question is, am I supposed to guide the cable as well as the outers the full length of the frame? Or should the outer only be used on the exposed bits of cable? I have seen it done both ways which is the confusing thing. I want to get it right the first time before I start riding alongside San Francisco traffic only to find my gears won't shift.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


You should use the outer cable housing up until the cable enters the frame, inside the frame should just be cable and no housing. For example....for a rear derailleur cable, the full cable run will look like this:

1.Cable inside outer housing from the shifter to the first entry into the frame, where that outer housing meets the frame, you will use a metal ferule on the end of that cable.

2.Cable only (no external housing) from the inside of the frame, over the bottom bracket cable guide (the part that you see under the bottom bracket if you were to tip the bike over. Once you pass it over the bottom bracket cable guide, the bare cable will continue to run through the chain stay on the derailler side and then exit the frame.

3.Once the cable exits the frame by the rear derailleur, it will then have an external housing on it as it loops to the connection on the rear derailleur. There will be metal ferrules on both ends of that cable that runs out of the chain stay and to the derailleur 

Hope that helps, if you have any other questions just PM me. 

-Tony


----------



## asherstash1

unless the frame doesn't have cable stops and requires full length? should be obvious from hole where it enters frame...


----------



## aerodynamics

BeanTownRoadie said:


> You should use the outer cable housing up until the cable enters the frame, inside the frame should just be cable and no housing. For example....for a rear derailleur cable, the full cable run will look like this:
> 
> 1.Cable inside outer housing from the shifter to the first entry into the frame, where that outer housing meets the frame, you will use a metal ferule on the end of that cable.
> 
> 2.Cable only (no external housing) from the inside of the frame, over the bottom bracket cable guide (the part that you see under the bottom bracket if you were to tip the bike over. Once you pass it over the bottom bracket cable guide, the bare cable will continue to run through the chain stay on the derailler side and then exit the frame.
> 
> 3.Once the cable exits the frame by the rear derailleur, it will then have an external housing on it as it loops to the connection on the rear derailleur. There will be metal ferrules on both ends of that cable that runs out of the chain stay and to the derailleur
> 
> Hope that helps, if you have any other questions just PM me.
> 
> -Tony


Excellent. This is exactly the info I was looking for.Thanks Tony!



asherstash1 said:


> unless the frame doesn't have cable stops and requires full length? should be obvious from hole where it enters frame...


There are no cable stops on the frame which is very much the reason I'm so confused. Does that change anything about Tony's suggestion above?


----------



## ms6073

aerodynamics said:


> am I supposed to guide the cable as well as the outers the full length of the frame?


No, cable housing stops at the ports where the cables enter the frame as you would most likely have to modify the cable ports to run the housing full length. If you perform a Google Image search for Hongfu FM039, you will find a number of pictures of owners bikes and none that I viewed appeared to have full length cable housing.


----------



## Ashbringer

riding for half a year,still works well.


----------



## ptsbike55

Ashbringer said:


> riding for half a year,still works well.


I just recently broke the 20,000 mile mark on mine, no issues.


----------



## BeanTownRoadie

aerodynamics said:


> Excellent. This is exactly the info I was looking for.Thanks Tony!
> 
> 
> 
> There are no cable stops on the frame which is very much the reason I'm so confused. Does that change anything about Tony's suggestion above?



Ok so on a carbon frame, the "cable stops" typically look like this









So there you see the entry point of the cable into the frame, from then on (inside the down tube) there is just a bare steel cable. See the metal ferule's that are on the cables right as they enter the frame? They rest against a cutout that is JUST big enough for their increased diameter. 

this next image shows you what the cable stops look like not attached to the bike (the top cable in the image, ignore the orange cable). The pictures illustrates how the ferule rests against the cable stop and then how the bare cable exits the cable stop and then entered the frame:









Now, I know you are confused as to which cable stop you have and whether to use full length housing. You will need to look at your cable stops on your frame, if the entry hole is JUST big enough to fit the cable housing and no metal ferrule, you will want to run the cable full-length. That type of cable stop will look like this, note the lack of the metal ferule? this is because the cable AND the housing go in that cable stop and run all the way through the frame but the opening is NOT big enough to fit a metal ferule...this automatically dictates a full length cable and housing run through the frame:









Hope that all helps. 
-Tony


----------



## asherstash1

ahaha now that is a helpful post mate, such a shame that the nature of this thread means that in 3 pages time, someone will ask exact same question


----------



## cyclist_sg

Here is the completed FM-186.


----------



## infes7

Just got done helping my buddy (my mechanic) build up my Velobuild R-022 with full Shimano 105 5800 grouppo, Vuelta Corsa SLR wheelset. Came in @ 17# with pedals. Looking forward to my maiden voyage tomorrow morning!


----------



## ian0789

That looks really nice! Very well done!!

On a side note.

I just ordered a set of 50mm Carbon Clinchers. Hopefully they will be in my hands soon and I will post up my thoughts. I built a frameset up from X-Goods a while back and while I havnt put as much miles on it as I would have liked to (to many bikes not enough days in the week) its still holding up great and is a solid ride. Since then I have bought a few sets of bars, posts, stems and ridden the heck out of them with great XP and felt they are well worth the wait, money and performance.

Excited to see how the carbon clinchers pan out and hold up. I got a set of carbon brake pads on the way, 2nd cassette / tires for the bike its going on to make wheel swapping cake and a set of shoe housing to easily swap out the pads in a pinch. Went with Glossy 3K with a white Cosmic logo, black spokes and black hubs. 23mm with U shape for the rims.

I have been debating back and forth if I should get a set of carbon rims and finally pulled the trigger! I know after reading a ton of reviews and ignoring the ones from people who never have bought anything off line via ebay or alliexpress people still did have some issues but most seem to be ok at this point in the game. And like anything from china or even a shop things can happen no matter what company made it!


----------



## aerodynamics

Tony, thanks for all the help, seriously. That really explains it in full for me.


----------



## BeanTownRoadie

aerodynamics said:


> Tony, thanks for all the help, seriously. That really explains it in full for me.


Glad to help. I finished building up my frame from Miracle (its an MC695) I had the same questions you did. If there's anything else you run into just PM me.


----------



## bvber

BeanTownRoadie said:


> I finished building up my frame from Miracle (its an MC695)


I noticed that seat tube angle is shallower than other frames. How is the ride quality?


----------



## BeanTownRoadie

bvber said:


> I noticed that seat tube angle is shallower than other frames. How is the ride quality?


The ride is solid, bike comes in at about 15.8lbs w/cages so it accelerates quickly. The BB area is a LITTLE flexy but I'm 250lbs so I'm used to making things bend a little. The road buzz is non existent and I'm using aluminum 3t bars so that was surprising. Still need some more seat time to give an in-depth review but for the money...im impressed at how fast and comfortable it is.


----------



## dovid

*rear brake cable housing*

i just built up an FR 602 frame and had a lot of trouble with the rear disc brake. the plastic cable stops screwed into the frame in the downtube and chainstay were not stopping the cable from going through. the problem was made worse by the frame's caliper placement and TRP Spyre caliper's design. notice in the pictre the angle of cable leaving the chainstay hole and the angle at which the caliper needs to receive the cable. for now i placed a small piece of cable housing with two cable ends on it and placed it in the brake's barrel adjuster to protect the cable(and barrel adjuster) from the sharp angle of approach. i also had some Nokon brake sleeve left over and to protect the frame routed it into the frame. 

now i'm thinking to run full length cable housing for the rear brake if i can route it under the bottom bracket... my concern with the current setup is that the brake cable will be rubbing against the frame due to the awkward angles

has anybody experienced a similar problem?


----------



## dovid

*rear brake problem solved*

rear brake on the FR 602 frame must be used with full length housing. i wish this chinese frame came with instructions. i finished the build and will take it for a shake up ride soon












.


----------



## laertejr

*Using chinese carbon frames for racing, final sprints...*

Hi, 
I'm beginner in this forum, but I always read the posts about my interesting...

Then, I've saw that 2 big topics about chinese carbons frame from ebay (5.0 and 6.0)
In these topics, many riders discribing their experiences for riders, climbings, weight, quality and never post that support races, especially final sprint.

I'm want to buy hongfu fm296 or greatkeen specialized tarmac replica 

I'm not amateur and sometimes I run in local cycling racings. Propalby, I never been power enought to broken any frame 

Note: Admin or moderators, I don't have permition to see the 2 topics (Chinese Carbon Thread and Ebay direct version 5.0 and 6.0) when I logged


----------



## kiwisimon

keep posting I think once you get over 10 posts you'll be able to see the thread. Blame spam bots. (_I'm not amateur_) Where are you racing and what kind of events? UCI sanctioned? I read a few people had problems with great keenafter sales support. Hong fu might be better. No one ever lost a race due to frame flex, good luck.


----------



## ericm979

In some countries, amateur racing follows many UCI equipment rules. In others like the USA, UCI equipment rules are largely ignored for amateurs.

So it would be helpful to know what country you'll be racing in.

As far as performance, the generic chinese carbon frames will perform just fine, though they may be heavier than some more expensive name brand frames. I've raced generic chinese frames and carbon rims.

Most of the peloton will be on Chinese frames, though many are branded with non-Chinese brands.


----------



## laertejr

thanks for help,

I'm from Curitiba, Brazil and here unfortunately people like just football (or soccer) and rest of sports generaly are amateurs :mad2:

here, in amateurs racing rules of UCI equipment are ignored.

Then, I afraid of chinese frames fail during the sprints.


----------



## ericm979

I've got two generic chinese frames and a pile of generic chinese carbon wheels. None have broken, and I ride a lot.

Most name brand carbon frames and rims are also made in China.


----------



## ruckus

How is the ride on the R-055? Looks like the most relaxed comfy frame among the 2014-2015 updates. I'm looking for a more relaxed ride to replace the FR-322.


----------



## ruckus

People do race on these frames. The CC frames likely aren't as stiff as the branded frames used by top racers though, but do you have enough power to notice? /shrug?

The CC frames don't have any stiffness measurements stated, but brands seem to spend enormous $$$ for measurements and marketing for theirs. I'd expect a Giant TCR Advanced to be stiffer than any of the CC frames.

If you're strong enough, maybe you can shave a few seconds off your race?

Also I've read more posts of Trek and Cervelo frames failing than CC frames. Lots more, really a lot more.


----------



## mrjerrick

Dear Seniors

need some help and advice
i intended to purchase this frame from velobuild
Frame 053
main objective is to find a frame similar as cervelo s3 
VB-R-053 New Road Race Frame Aero Carbon Frame - VeloBuild

read through couple of the thread,
pardon me if i am wrong, if were to buy the frame, should i buy from velobuild for better quality screening or buy direct from the supplier?

any supplier to recommend for the similar frame design?

many thanks


----------



## myhui

2015 model FM318 from gotobike.com.cn


----------



## mrjerrick

thanks and have sent an email to them. 
look forward to hear from them

thanks alot!


----------



## Gili

I still havent news about the broken frame, same problems, no email answers until now.

Wheres the warranty? I want a new frame or refound ( I already bought another frame ).



Gili said:


> I bought a R041 Velobuild framework in May / 2014. I had a problem on seatpost that were sending me a new and so far nothing. In early November found a cracked the seat tube, I sent an email to Chris the Velobuild and so far I am unanswered. I also bought a pair of rear hangers that were not sent (a friend also expects a couple of bottle cages). Tired of waiting for a response, I posted them on youtube and forum, but the messages are deleted.
> 
> 
> It is my warranty registration of Velobuild.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKhl9HxVNDM&index=4&list=UUcC8HAXEywUTaohO1y6Ew7Q


----------



## laertejr

No, i'm not produce same power than Cavendish during the sprints yet 

At now, I never saw anyone using these CC frames in races... I think to change my merlin malt-cr by hongfu or greatkeen tarmac


----------



## MMsRepBike

laertejr said:


> No, i'm not produce same power than Cavendish during the sprints yet
> 
> At now, I never saw anyone using these CC frames in races... I think to change my merlin malt-cr by hongfu or greatkeen tarmac


Your Merlin is likely much better quality than a fake/counterfeit Chinese frame. If I were you I'd stick with what you have.


----------



## mrjerrick

mrjerrick said:


> thanks and have sent an email to them.
> look forward to hear from them
> 
> thanks alot!


went to visit the site and chat with stephen 
price wise, it is 100 bucks + higher than velobuild 

however, in credibility wise, they have their inhouse brand and facebook.
maybe that is why their price are higher.


Quote
[FONT=&#23435]www.winspace-bikes.com[/FONT]
Gallery : www.flickr.com/photos/<wbr>[email protected]/
 www.tieba.baidu.<wbr>com/p/2814272497
Unquote

considering if i should pay well for more 'assurance' 
after the pic of bad creditably of velobuild. i kinda step back from velobuild. 

i just bought a wheelset from yeoleo. it is more expensive than other shop from aliexpress but i felt safer as they have a facebook and i can easily put my comment or complain if things really go wrong with them. 

dear senior, any other recommendation fr a frame similar to cervelo s3 frame? 

thanks alot


----------



## ptsbike55

MMsRepBike said:


> Your Merlin is likely much better quality than a fake/counterfeit Chinese frame. If I were you I'd stick with what you have.


Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Kurt Searvogel, who is attempting to break the 75,000 miles in one year record just broke his second Giant frame. I don't know, Giant frames may just be cheap carbon frames too.


----------



## pushstart

ptsbike55 said:


> Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Kurt Searvogel, who is attempting to break the 75,000 miles in one year record just broke his second Giant frame. I don't know, Giant frames may just be cheap carbon frames too.


Giant is one of the few companies that have their own factory; they are not open-mold frames. And AFAIK they are made in Taiwan, not mainland China like these other frames being discussed on this thread.

I enjoy my Chinese carbon frame, but I would not claim it is worth as much as a name-brand titanium frame or even my made-in-China titanium Habanero cycles frame. That is ok; it costs a lot less too.


----------



## turbogrover

MMsRepBike said:


> Your Merlin is likely much better quality than a fake/counterfeit Chinese frame. If I were you I'd stick with what you have.


Hey Merlins break and crack too. Just like any other bike frame. I've seen plenty of cracked titanium frames. Any frame that's been tig welded, runs the risk of weld contamination and/or corruption of the material properties in the heat affected zones. No frame material (aluminum, ti, carbon, steel, bamboo) is immune from breakage. Frames have to be made with consistant quality, and when something is built by a human, it's up to the human to do everything perfectly every time. My Chinese carbon frame has already lasted longer than other steel and ti frames I've owned.
My Merlin extralight cracked at the drive-side chainstay...
I had a Basso Gap made with Columbus SL tubing, crack at the downtube...
I had a Tomassini SLX that cracked at the seat tube/bb junction...


----------



## Jay561

Just wanted to throw my review in. Came from riding a 2014 BMC SLR01 which got run over, and before that a 2013 model which cracked randomly at the dropouts with no warranty help but crash replacement. Ended up with a F8 with 5800 from miracle which had similar geometry to my SLR01. Very impressed with the quality of the ride. Looks great also.


----------



## pashax

Hi! Can anyone suggest me a reliable Aliexpress seller ?


----------



## plx

Can anyone care to answer me a few questions?
First how cheap are the cheapest frames? I live in Spain how much is it additional taxs? Where should i buy it? Are they safe?


----------



## bvber

pashax said:


> Hi! Can anyone suggest me a reliable Aliexpress seller ?


Dengfu, FLYXII, Hongfu, ZhongWei, Miracle Bike. At least those are the frequently mentioned sellers on this forum.


----------



## LONDON-GUY

BeanTownRoadie said:


> Glad to help. I finished building up my frame from Miracle (its an MC695) I had the same questions you did. If there's anything else you run into just PM me.
> 
> View attachment 303127


Nice build frame has nice lines but you have fitted your wheel quick release on the wrong side the releases should be on the non drive side


----------



## fronesis

*Di2 Compatibility?*

I'm in the early stages of planning a new spring build, thinking bout going di2 (6870). I'm having a hard time getting clear information about frame compatibility with di2. 

*Are all of the China internal cable routing frames Di2 compatible?*

My default is to go with FlyXii because I've had so much good luck with them, but they don't seem to say anything bout Di2. I do know that the meachanical frames I've built up from them DO have the extra holes that I thought were for di2.

Can anyone enlighten me here?

thanks!


----------



## asherstash1

plx said:


> Can anyone care to answer me a few questions?
> First how cheap are the cheapest frames? I live in Spain how much is it additional taxs? Where should i buy it? Are they safe?


1)cheapest probs $350 a frame (normally not inc shipping, which is abou t $80)
2)I also live in spain, I did a LOT of research on this and basically its awful, Spanish customs will assess the frame at a value they think is valid, so if they think it looks like a $800 frame that is value they will use, then 21% VAT and around 4% import duty AND THEN the biggie, which is a specific anti-dumping tax on Chinese bicycle imports........ at 45% of the value they have chosen, not what is declared on box (Chinese sellers will often write a low value on box such as $120 to avoid us paying import taxes). So, you may pay $400 to china, they will write $120 on box, Spanish customs will decide it is worth $600, add 25% in vat etc so it now $750 + 45% anti dumping on that so $1125 leaving you owing $525 in tax to spain....
short answer is im getting mine imported to england then brought to me in spain by guy who supplies local shop... 
3)theres million of sellers, we rarely hear bad review or scams about any of them
4)yes they are as safe as any other bikes it would seem, this will be my t hird and the only reason I have needed 3 is because of my habit of crashing them badly, not because they have failed In any way, many people here have tens of thousands of km on their frames...

but seriously be careful with direct import to spain, if they check your package it will get very expensive very fast....


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## Jay561

fronesis said:


> I'm in the early stages of planning a new spring build, thinking bout going di2 (6870). I'm having a hard time getting clear information about frame compatibility with di2.
> 
> *Are all of the China internal cable routing frames Di2 compatible?*
> 
> My default is to go with FlyXii because I've had so much good luck with them, but they don't seem to say anything bout Di2. I do know that the meachanical frames I've built up from them DO have the extra holes that I thought were for di2.
> 
> Can anyone enlighten me here?
> 
> thanks!


Im not sure if all are but both Miracle, and ZhongWei both asked what group I would be using and sent both frames with both types of cable stops for me to use either or.


----------



## motopazzo

anyone have experience with a Miracle Bike MT-MC186 build? interested in seeing some pics and some advice. looking at ordering and building in the next few weeks.

thanks


----------



## Crawf

I'm looking for FM099 (Venge) (non aliexpress) sellers, they seem hard to find.
Can anyone list any sellers?


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## tthome

color me stupid here...but can someone please tell me the dimensions for this 53cm frameset listed here? I see the geometry chart but they mix up the 53/54/55 frame sizes on the same line...I typically ride a 53/54cm frameset. I'm 5'9" with a 30" inseam. i want to make sure this fits me and isn't one of those frames that is listed as a 53cm but fits like a 56cm. Thanks!!!

Full Carbon UD Matt Road Bike 700c 53cm Frame Fork Seatpost Clamp Headset BSA | eBay


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## .je

This is the geo chart you mentioned, 
Looks that it has a longer reach compare to most 54 or 55 on the second size listed, the other sizes seem to be like that too


----------



## syraleo

Not really related but I remember seeing a picture someone posted of him spraying his whole bike with plastidip?

The color was gold i think, I can't find the poster so i'll just ask here.

Anyone got tips/advice on how to spray a bicycle frame? I have no idea how to cover the threaded areas like the BB holes and my chinarello has 2 small holes on the bottom of the down tube, i assume its for the Di2 battery.

Do I cover them and spray over then remove while its still wet? Plastidip requires 5-6 coats so do i cover them, spray, cover/spray/cover/spray ?

And how much thickness will it add to the frame? I don't want the top parts of the fork to rub against the frame.


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## motopazzo

Can someone shed some light on what the latest open mold frame models are?

Are any of the main resellers working on the latest style aero shapes like what Canyon Aero, Ridley Noah and dogma f8s...not looking for a fake but rather a new aero design like the names mentioned above.....


----------



## [email protected]

I got my R-051 all sorted out, not thanks to Velobuild.

I went with Velobuild because they promise better service then direct Chinese vendors. They're lying. I would stay clear of Velobuild.

The frame itself seems to be okay, nice and responsive, pretty racy.
I had a problem with a dropping seatpost, reason was a combo of bad seatclamp and the seatpost form that didn't follow the frame form.
Chris from Velobuild sent me a new seatclamp (which was better) and then a new seatpost (after 2 months or so) wich was exactly the same as the old.

I got the old seatpost to a carbon repair shop, they sorted out the shape. Velobuild doesn't react to my mails anymore, so they won't pay for it.

All in all it took from September (when I placed the order) to well into 2015 before the bike got ride able.

For short: I will not buy Chinese carbon anymore (and definitely not from Velobuild), I'll just go for a cheap local frame (you can get a little older left over frame for less money and less problems)

On the upside, I did learn a lot about building a bike and I have a nice riding bike now:


----------



## Jay561

[email protected] said:


> I got my R-051 all sorted out, not thanks to Velobuild.
> 
> I went with Velobuild because they promise better service then direct Chinese vendors. They're lying. I would stay clear of Velobuild.
> 
> The frame itself seems to be okay, nice and responsive, pretty racy.
> I had a problem with a dropping seatpost, reason was a combo of bad seatclamp and the seatpost form that didn't follow the frame form.
> Chris from Velobuild sent me a new seatclamp (which was better) and then a new seatpost (after 2 months or so) wich was exactly the same as the old.
> 
> I got the old seatpost to a carbon repair shop, they sorted out the shape. Velobuild doesn't react to my mails anymore, so they won't pay for it.
> 
> All in all it took from September (when I placed the order) to well into 2015 before the bike got ride able.
> 
> For short: I will not buy Chinese carbon anymore (and definitely not from Velobuild), I'll just go for a cheap local frame (you can get a little older left over frame for less money and less problems)
> 
> On the upside, I did learn a lot about building a bike and I have a nice riding bike now:


My F8 copy had that problem but carbon paste solved it right away. Did you use carbon paste?


----------



## redondoaveb

Anybody have any experience with these guys. Technically not shipped directly from China. Good price. 
Arcalis - The Premiere Direct to Consumer Cycling Company
New Arcalis Arc 01 Carbon Fiber Road Bike Frameset Size 52 Arc 01 | eBay


----------



## BLD25

Hey, I found a us seller on ebay with a few carbon frames, but can't find much info on the VVME CO2 frame. Anyone have any thoughts?


----------



## BLD25

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=201196418773&alt=web


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## [email protected]

Jay561 said:


> My F8 copy had that problem but carbon paste solved it right away. Did you use carbon paste?


Duh 

Of course I used carbon paste.


----------



## BLD25

I found this on ebay from a US seller, and $269 shipped. Did lots of searching, but can't find much. Good deal?


http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=201196418773&alt=web


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## Jay561

[email protected] said:


> Duh
> 
> Of course I used carbon paste.


Sorry for asking.


----------



## [email protected]

Jay561 said:


> Sorry for asking.


No problem


----------



## persondude27

Alrighty homeslices. I need some advice from someone who has experience with the Tarmac clone. My roommate has a Tarmac SL4, and I'm kind of in love with it. Of course, his is the SL4. I understand that if I were to buy one of the Chinese FM models, it would *not* be equivalent to the SL4, but I do like the frame, the geo, and the way it rides.

Here's my question. I've essentially decided on a Tarmac clone, but something just popped up on a craigslist that caught my eye. A local in my area (literally, down the street) is selling a 2010 Tarmac Pro frameset. It'd come it a crankset, seatpost, BB, and headset, for slightly more than I could get a chinese version of the same.

This is the frame: Specialized Bicycle Components

Anyone ridden this frame? Anyone know anything on how a 5-year-old Pro compares to the new Chinese FM208 (from Dengfu)? Anyone have a solid price on the 208? I realize that the Chinese New Year holidays are going on for a little while, so I've turned to you.

I guess the pros and cons are this:

Craigslist Big S:
Same price, know frame is finished properly (ie, headset and BB), and has a name brand on it. Cons are that part of the reason I want a no-name frame is for the lack of a name. As far as paintjobs go, this one is tolerable. Have ridden a newer (2013) Pro and thought it was bomb-diggity. Frame is used, and appears to be in decent shape (thought the pictures are at least 6 months old).

eBay:
Same price, but longer wait by 2-3 weeks and possibility of needing extra work. Uncertain of ride characteristics, but can get the paint job I want. Possibility of being same weight. New, unused.

Anyone have thoughts, abusive comments, etc?


----------



## [email protected]

I'd go with the Craigslist one (if its in near mint condition), see my previous conributions to this thread to know why


----------



## Rmabus

*FM066sl BB30 alignment question*

I should have posted this on the Chinese thread but cannot access it for some strange reason. I have been working to figure this out, but I am running an older generation Sram Red 10 speed crankset (GXP). I am running the FM066 BB30 frame with a Praxis BB in it. What I am realizing is that the non drive side crank sticks pretty far away from the chain stay (compared to the drive side) when everything is mounted up. I am pretty sure this is considered a symmetrical frame when all is said and done. I have posted at length about this in the wrenching forum. That said, has anyone had any issues with the BB30 shell not being centered? I am trying to decide if I need a new set of cranks or a new frame.


----------



## oddspam

Has anyone made a build based on Miraclebikes FM 186? I really love the design, I will even say it looks better than the F8 I guess it tries to replicate.

I'm a little worried about the weight and the price (!). The later because it seems to be a bit cheaper than some of the other frames.

2014 New Road Bicycle Bike Carbon Frame Fork Seatpost Headset UD Matt BB86 53.5cm Frameset-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

Would love to hear experiences and see the results of final builds.


----------



## asherstash1

so my deng-fu 206 is now here, having winded its tortuous route to spain via a van from margate, uk to avoid spains hellish anti-Chinese bike dumping taxes! it looks great to be fair, although I have already had some of the traditional Chinese qc issues with building it. unfortunately the build has stalled rather early due to being currently owed several thousands of $ by my bloody work, meaning that as yet is has no wheels... not ideal for a bike... hopefully that will be sorted by Friday and things can get moving again!


----------



## NYC_CAAD

Amazing. Do we all celebrate with specialized and the take down of oem-carbon.com. Specialized has now saved many many lives in the near future. Co-payment at doctor visits, death, broken bones, dentist, ect....


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## 00Garza

sheepherder said:


> Anyway, I was actually looking for an endurance frame from China. Anyone have any good suggestions. Something like a synapse, roubaix or domane. How would the quality be compared to the originals.


The only frame I know of that is considered "relaxed" would be the fm029. Several vendors sell this model (or one very similar) under different names. Zhongwei calls it the R-008 and seem to have a good price on it. Pretty close to pulling the trigger on it as my current frame's geometry isn't the best for me.


----------



## Coolhand

*Moderators Note*

No counterfeits please.


----------



## NYC_CAAD

Hey nirVELOvana. Can you please reply with your email..

Thank you!


----------



## nirVELOvana

NYC_CAAD said:


> Hey nirVELOvana. Can you please reply with your email..
> 
> Thank you!


Hey。 

Sorry。 I never give me private contact details out to anybody I encounter on the Internet。 Once bitten。。。

I'm more than happy to answer any questions you want to ask me right here in the forum though。


----------



## ms6073

nirVELOvana said:


> Sorry。 I never give me private contact details out to anybody I encounter on the Internet。 Once bitten。。


Confused - did the previous poster send you a Private Message which you are not answering or was there a request to post personal data on a public forum (which is a no-no)?


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## nirVELOvana

ms6073 said:


> “。。。_or was there a request to post personal data on a public forum (which is a no-no)?_。。。”


It's not important。

As you were。


----------



## RVA

Does anyone have a good comparison between the dengfu fm208 and fm098? it seems like the fm098 is very popular but the fm208 is significantly (ust under 300g) lighter. Im debating building one of these and would love some feedback from anyone with a fm208 since I havent found as much on it. Seems the weight difference in the 098 is made up mostly from the more aero frame? any help is appreciated. cheers


----------



## nirVELOvana

RVA said:


> “。。。_a good comparison between the dengfu fm208 and fm098。。。_”


_FM208_ vs _FM098_


----------



## TheeContender

I am seeing 2014 or 2015 synapse frames being offered on aliexpress through vendors who say it's a greatkeen frame. Has anyone taken the plunge and bought one? online chat w rep said it's a new product. How long would you wait before buying a new frame design from these chinese factories? Bound to be some problems to work out in first run of frame right?


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## blend76

If you are on strava.com and ride a chinarello feel free to join the global CC club I set up.

https://www.strava.com/clubs/chinarello

It would be fun to see where chinarellos are ridden.


----------



## nirVELOvana

blend76 said:


> “。。。_If you are on strava.com and ride a chinarello feel free to join the global CC club I set up。
> 
> https://www.strava.com/clubs/chinarello
> 
> It would be fun to see where chinarellos are ridden。。。_”



I。B。T。M。

Although I'm not a Stravanian, I gotta say that is a pretty neat idear for a cycling club。


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## VQuick

BeanTownRoadie said:


> Glad to help. I finished building up my frame from Miracle (its an MC695) I had the same questions you did. If there's anything else you run into just PM me.


Hey all, I am back in the market for a Chinese carbon raod bike. I'm pretty much set on the Cervelo R5 type frame (have no desire to have counterfeit with decals, prefer straight carbon). BeanTownRoadie, it looks like your Miracle MC695 is the R5 style. I notice they now have only a MC696 listed on their site, and the weight is over 1 kg (I've seen other R5 type that are 870g).

It seems there are loads of different companies selling the R5 style road frame. Since I don't see a search function for this thread, is some kind soul willing to give me the rundown on what would be good sellers that make a high quality R5 style frame? Shoot me a link if you know of any other threads where it's discussed too. Thanks!


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## blend76

nirVELOvana said:


> I。B。T。M。
> 
> Although I'm not a Stravanian, I gotta say that is a pretty neat idear for a cycling club。


Well, now you got a great excuse to get yourself a gps device or a phone with the money you saved on the frame  We already got members from N-America, UK, Continental Europe and Asia. Still missing members from Australia and S-America. Let's make it global!


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## nirVELOvana

blend76 said:


> “。。。_Let's make it global!。。。_”


Thanks for the invite。 But _because of some other «off-shore generic-brand» purchases I made a couple days ago_, I figure I'd be better off on a different playing field。 ;¬)

For my money, _these guys would be more my speed_。


----------



## [email protected]

I cut of the excess steerer tube and added 105 carbon pedals.
Also gave it a good clean.

















I've done 1482km on it and I'm loving it more every time I ride it. It just feels quick and goes like stig.
All the problems with Velobuild are all but forgotten.


----------



## karabas barabas

Ha, did you have to repaint the car to match the color of the bike?


----------



## Jay561

Have been riding a R-043 frame from zhongwei for the last 2 weeks. Its really light with 9000. Have to say Im really impressed.


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## 00Garza

Jay561 said:


> Have been riding a R-043 frame from zhongwei for the last 2 weeks. Its really light with 9000. Have to say Im really impressed.


Did you buy through Velobuild, or did you go direct? How was your experience?


----------



## Jay561

00Garza said:


> Did you buy through Velobuild, or did you go direct? How was your experience?


Direct from Zhongwei great experience. Actually just bought a R-002 from them last week cant wait to build it up. Cant figure if I will do 6800 or 6870.


----------



## 00Garza

Jay561 said:


> Direct from Zhongwei great experience. Actually just bought a R-002 from them last week cant wait to build it up. Cant figure if I will do 6800 or 6870.


I ride Campy, so I can't advise on either gruppo. The R-002 frame is good for the price. Its stiff....really stiff. Some say its a little harsh due to its stiffness. On rough roads, I do notice it.


----------



## Jay561

Thanks for the heads up. I have no problem with harsh rides. That R-043 is pretty stiff itself. The BBright helps, though I ended up going with a Rotor BB instead of that weird one that was sent with the frame.


----------



## masi85

*Buying from Zhonwei*



Jay561 said:


> Have been riding a R-043 frame from zhongwei for the last 2 weeks. Its really light with 9000. Have to say Im really impressed.


Do you think there is any advantage to buying from Zhongwei through Aliexpress or directly from the company? I wonder how the prices compare.


----------



## VQuick

Jay561 said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I have no problem with harsh rides. That R-043 is pretty stiff itself. The BBright helps, though I ended up going with a Rotor BB instead of that weird one that was sent with the frame.


Is the R043 from Zhongwei the same frame as FM066 (Cervelo R5-like)? Any issues with build quality or fitment? On Alibaba I don't see any size above 56 unfortunately.... I need a 58.


----------



## 00Garza

masi85 said:


> Do you think there is any advantage to buying from Zhongwei through Aliexpress or directly from the company? I wonder how the prices compare.


Back when I was pricing frames, it seemed like the best prices were by going direct, and communication was much faster.


----------



## asherstash1

literally just waiting for cable stop to start build now!! come on dengfu! total build list is as follows (I will update with weights when I do the build!)

frame: Deng-Fu fm206 aero road frame (size 50)
handlebars: 3t alloy ergonova 44cm
bar tape: deda
stem: deda alloy zero2 
saddle: fizik arione 
front brake: trp ttv
rear brake: trp t922.1
pads: swissstop green
cables: front der- jagwire Teflon pro, rear der and brakes- yokozuna reaction
group: Sram force 10 spd 
cassette: ultegra 11-25 6700
chain: kmc x10sl
bb: sram team gxp
wheels: rolf prima vigor
tires: conti gp4000s
tubes: schwalbe extra-light
skewers: deng-fu ti

bit of a mixed bag of bling and practicality! saddle will look very tatty atop the bike, however, it fits my rear end and cant justifying dropping 120 quid on a new carbon railed one (yet....)


----------



## Jay561

masi85 said:


> Do you think there is any advantage to buying from Zhongwei through Aliexpress or directly from the company? I wonder how the prices compare.


Honestly Im not sure.


----------



## Jay561

VQuick said:


> Is the R043 from Zhongwei the same frame as FM066 (Cervelo R5-like)? Any issues with build quality or fitment? On Alibaba I don't see any size above 56 unfortunately.... I need a 58.


Yeah it sure looks like the same frame. No build issues, was really easy to put together.


----------



## Ricey155

Good to hear it :thumbsup: 

I think we all had niggles with most bikes from VELO but sas you when they get sorted there decent bikes and worth the experience 



[email protected] said:


> I cut of the excess steerer tube and added 105 carbon pedals.
> Also gave it a good clean.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've done 1482km on it and I'm loving it more every time I ride it. It just feels quick and goes like stig.
> All the problems with Velobuild are all but forgotten.


----------



## [email protected]

karabas barabas said:


> Ha, did you have to repaint the car to match the color of the bike?


I orderd the car first and then asked for the bike in the same colour.


----------



## Colinwhufc

I have orderd a ICAN AERO004 (fm206) and i am blown away with how helpful Seki has been very good price for both the frame and 55mm clincher wheels set.
Im replaceing a hongfu fm039 wich i was very happy with but fancied a change.
i will post lots of pics of the build as looking on the web i can't see hardly any info on this frame.
It should arrive in a week or so.
id also like to thank everyone who contributes to this great forum, without it i and I'm sure many others would be lost in this world.
:thumbsup:


----------



## motopazzo

Anyone building up some of the newer Aero frames?


----------



## Jay561

Well I can honestly say I have had extremely poor customer service dealing directly with zhongwei from Dick Chen. They left out the headset and wouldnt send another unless I bought something, at first they wanted me to buy another frame. Funny thing is they said it was their fault it wasnt sent. Never was I told it was shipping. Though the frame looks good. Caroline was much easier to deal with then Dick Chen. Well now I have to look for a headset since Im not going to spend a bunch to get a neco one.


----------



## motopazzo

Who are the better dealers to deal with? 

Seems like there has been some mixed reviews the past year?

Does anyone have a (fairly) complete list of who everyone is and what each of their list of frames that are worth looking at?


----------



## bvber

Jay561 said:


> Caroline was much easier to deal with then Dick Chen. Well now I have to look for a headset since Im not going to spend a bunch to get a neco one.


My deal with Sally Hu of Zhongwei went smoothly. I guess there is a bad apple there...


----------



## JaeP

Doomedofthedead said:


> The dude is right; get a proper frame from established manufacturers. Ask yourself this - if a bike breaks and you die, who is legally liable?


If your bike breaks and you die does it matter if your bike was from a "real" manufacturer? I mean, you're still dead.


----------



## myhui

JaeP said:


> If your bike breaks and you die does it matter if your bike was from a "real" manufacturer? I mean, you're still dead.


So? Lots of people are interested in your life insurance claim. It matters a lot to those people. " Honey, it's always about the money."


----------



## JaeP

myhui said:


> So? Lots of people are interested in your life insurance claim. It matters a lot to those people. " Honey, it's always about the money."


I don't need life insurance 'cause I'm going to heaven.


----------



## myhui

JaeP said:


> I don't need life insurance 'cause I'm going to heaven.


Sprinkle some money on your poor descendants once you get there.


----------



## Jakak

Since there is a debate regarding trust worthy sellers from China...please stay away from seller with following stores/nicknames:
- HK FeiFan Trading Limited
- Joshan900101
- chinesswalton

He sells counterfreight frames, handlebars, wheels, etc. I bought frameset & handlebar from him and the quality is terrible. Diameter of the handlebar was different on both sides, paint finish was even wors and after 170 miles on the bike which my LBS shop hardly assembled (grindinh bearing bed to fit in, cnc BB for new threads since in the original threads the ultegra BB did not fit, etc.) my rear chainstay snappen which result in a crash.
I contact him and after 14 days of constant messages and e-mail I received following feedback..."I sold you ok frame. If you want you can order another one. Frames don't have warranty"
It,s crazy since they advertize 2 year warranty. I replied within minutes and stressed theis "so called warranty policy"
Reply which I received back after 3 days without any hello or something and I qoute "NO WARANTY FOR CHINA CARBON"

According to above I would reccomend to buy from reputable sellers which are mentioned in this forum and don't go sideways with garage sellers who are evidently well aware that they live in other continent where no morale or business manners and end user concern are present!


----------

