# Top Mount Brake Levers



## Obsidian (Jul 27, 2005)

I was wondering about your opinions on top mount brake levers... do you like them or dislike them?

Also, for a novice how hard are they to install on drop handle bars?


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## Dave_Stohler (Jan 22, 2004)

Obsidian said:


> I was wondering about your opinions on top mount brake levers... do you like them or dislike them?
> 
> Also, for a novice how hard are they to install on drop handle bars?


Are you talking about "ckicken levers" (a.k.a. "suicide levers")?


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

Obsidian said:


> I was wondering about your opinions on top mount brake levers... do you like them or dislike them?
> 
> Also, for a novice how hard are they to install on drop handle bars?


Very nice if you ride in the tops a lot. Work much better than the drop levers if you have small hands. Are looked down upon by 'attitude' type roadies. Installation isn't bad as long as you have something to cut the cable housing with. - TF


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## Obsidian (Jul 27, 2005)

Dave_Stohler said:


> Are you talking about "ckicken levers" (a.k.a. "suicide levers")?


I'm guessing that you don't like them. Any particular reasons, though?

I've heard of them being referred to as "chicken levers" but not as "suicide levers". What's the reasoning behind that?


Also, with the levers installed, how much room does that leave for other stuff like aero bars, lights and computers (I realize that everything at the same time will make the bike a little top heavy - but hypothetically...)?


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

They are made for CX bikes and tourists. If someone is silly enough to lock up their brakes while on the tops, they may find themselves flying over the bars. They are made to make minor speed corrections, not stopping.


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## Dave_Stohler (Jan 22, 2004)

Obsidian said:


> I'm guessing that you don't like them. Any particular reasons, though?
> 
> I've heard of them being referred to as "chicken levers" but not as "suicide levers". What's the reasoning behind that?
> 
> ...


They are called "suicide levrs" because the first time you _really_ need them for a hard stop, they break, and you go *splat*!! They leave *zero room* for anything else, and they are only found on low-end junk bikes of 20+ year-old bikes. I've been told that they were banned sometime back in the 1980, but that might just be a legend.

Regardless, chicken levers identifies a bike as being an old pile of junk.


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## DW4477 (Feb 4, 2005)

Dave_Stohler said:


> They are called "suicide levrs" because the first time you _really_ need them for a hard stop, they break, and you go *splat*!! They leave *zero room* for anything else, and they are only found on low-end junk bikes of 20+ year-old bikes. I've been told that they were banned sometime back in the 1980, but that might just be a legend.
> 
> Regardless, chicken levers identifies a bike as being an old pile of junk.


You are thinking of the old ones that were just a mechanical lever to the main levers. The new ones now on some bikes operate independently of the main levers and act directly on the brake cable. They work fine.


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## S2H (Jul 10, 2005)

Top-mounted brakes came stock on my Felt F80. I don't like how they look, but they don't get in the way. I only use them when stopped at a stoplight. I never use them to actually bring the bike to a stop.


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

Scotty2Hotty said:


> Top-mounted brakes came stock on my Felt F80. I don't like how they look, but they don't get in the way. I only use them when stopped at a stoplight. I never use them to actually bring the bike to a stop.


I use them all the time. If I'm coasting to a stop, it's natural to me to sit up and go to the tops. I brake from the tops all the way to a dead stop. I don't know why anybody would have problems using them???? - TF


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## weiwentg (Feb 3, 2004)

Dave_Stohler said:


> They are called "suicide levrs" because the first time you _really_ need them for a hard stop, they break, and you go *splat*!! They leave *zero room* for anything else, and they are only found on low-end junk bikes of 20+ year-old bikes. I've been told that they were banned sometime back in the 1980, but that might just be a legend.
> 
> Regardless, chicken levers identifies a bike as being an old pile of junk.


we're talking about completely different things. suicide levers are truly pieces of crap that were included on lower end road-style bikes because your average joe spent a lot of time riding on the bar tops. the secondary top mount brake levers the OP was talking about were first (I think) popularized by CX riders, who sometimes go to the bar tops in technical sections. they've also made their way to commuter road bikes. and they work just fine.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

*Good stuff.*

Modern top-mount in-line brake levers do a good job of stopping your bike with your hands on the tops of the bars. They were first developed for cyclocross, where you need good control on technical sections of the course, exactly as a previous poster said.

Because sitting up moves your center of gravity slightly to the rear of the bike, there's less of a chance of locking up the brakes and going over the handlebars with top-mount in-lines than with regular brakes. All in all, a good thing.


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## Obsidian (Jul 27, 2005)

Thanks for the responses so far. How do I tell the difference between the "bad" and the "good" kind of top mount brake levers? Do they look different at all or is just a matter of more expensive quality ones vs. cheaper sub-standard ones?


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

*Here you are.*

I'm almost certain the junk levers are no longer installed on new bikes.


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## Ben S (Jul 14, 2002)

These came standard on my Felt F80 as well...I lost them right away.


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## lonefrontranger (Feb 5, 2004)

*wim is correct*

his photos show the correct references.

To most of the other posters in this thread (aside from Weiwen), have you actually RIDDEN both / all 3 styles, or are you merely spouting opinion?

The old 'cheater' brakes, as pictured were indeed useless; I've ridden them - not only were they mechanically inept, but they were also overly long and made of cheap stamped metal that bent upon first usage. 

The newer topmount styles are very nearly (if not more so) expensive as a second set of brakes. I'd consider several things before investing in them. 1) they are very specific in use. 2) you need to know what you're doing to use them. 3) they render the tops useless for mounting things such as lights, computers, and other paraphernalia. You'll need to either mount this stuff on the stem or get a 'dashboard' setup, which adds tons of extraneous clutter, for what benefit, you'll have to decide.

I put topmounts on my CX bike for the first time last season. They did save my bacon a few times in mud and/or icy snowy descending. Here is what they are for, IMO.

They are for controlling speed in situations where an EXPERIENCED (please note emphasis) rider needs to have control from the tops on a sketchy downhill.

Unless you have ridden offroad a lot, and know how to really, truly get your arse back over the rear wheel, I seriously do not recommend topmounts for the tourists and/or beginner riders I've seen lately using them.

The reason is, as Mr. Grumpy stated, you WILL go over the bars, as the 'inline' topmounts are every bit as strong as the actual levers. And, most inexperienced riders I've seen with them mounted on a touring setup will tend to use them as 'panic' brakes, whilst sitting in the saddle. At best, they'll lock the rear wheel in a wet situation and lay it down. At worst, they won't have their weight properly back, and endo.

YMMV


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

lonefrontranger said:


> his photos show the correct references.
> 
> To most of the other posters in this thread (aside from Weiwen), have you actually RIDDEN both / all 3 styles, or are you merely spouting opinion?
> 
> ...


Realizing that disagreeing with LFR is usually risky, ...

I have never used the old style, but do not think that has any bearing on the top mount levers.

I've used top mounts for a few of years with road calipers, cantis, V-brake/Travel Agents and road discs. I use them for road and path which is what this post is about, not single track.

They are under $20
[EDIT: Sorry, I copied the wrong address the first time.] http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?sku=10888&srccode=1142&PID=484346

I don't see why anyone would have a problem using them any more than any other lever. They work and feel like an mtb lever only without as much power since they are usually attached to less powerful caliper types. They are no more "specific" than the mtb levers that come on comfort, hybrid, etc. New riders do go over the bars a lot, but it's not the lever's fault.

Below are pics of my old setup, my wife's current setup and my current setup. Note the computer mounts and room for more. (Also note the further heresy on the other end of the cables on my current bike - more on this in a later post). 

My biggest problem with them is when I come up to a red light on one of my bikes WITHOUT them and sit up and reach for the levers that aren't there.

TF


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## lonefrontranger (Feb 5, 2004)

*specifically*

why I neither like nor recommend them for beginners (this is the beginners' forum, after all).

Topmounts (realising they are the equivalent of a flat bar setup) make it remarkably easy for a newbee to 'panic' lock a skinny tyre by grabbing a full double handful of brakes, and especially on pavement in situations where a panic grab is likely to occur. 

With a normal hood mount brake lever, you're typically not getting a full, four-fingered panic grab on... unless you're in the drops, meaning your centre of gravity is typically lowered. Even then, your hand positioning makes it highly unlikely you've got a full-fisted grip, owing to hand positioning vs. leverage of a vertical brake lever as opposed to a horizontal one.

Proper use of topmount brakes ON A SKINNY TYRED bicycle means no more than a 2 fingered grip, with modulation, with weight back off the saddle. Preferably one finger.

Most newbees don't understand this, nor have they ridden offroad enough to understand what modulation and correct weight adjustment is all about.

Going over the bars on pavement introduces significantly more risk of injury than on dirt, IMO.

Due to physics, and the strengths of newer dual-pivot and cantilever systems, the contact patch on a skinny tyre is very rapidly and easily overwhelmed, particularly on pavement, and especially in a panic situation where sand, wet or other circumstances are likely to be at play.

This is why 99% of cyclocross racers don't use long fulcrum vees, incidentally. They simply do not function correctly on skinny tyres in dirt. Too easy to lock, owing to the physics of the smaller contact patch on loose surface. Locked brakes = no control.

End of rant.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

*Listen to the lady !*

Although they are apearing on more and more "touring" type bikes, and many "off the shelf" CX bikes, I would say that unless you really know what you are doing, have the shop take them off. Even if you race CX a few times a year, you'll be better off without them. They will cause you to become lazy, and will set you up for a fall.
In short.....Inline brakes.....bad, unless you are able to do a dismount, hop over triple barriers, and hop back on your bike without loosing any speed.


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## Henry V (May 26, 2005)

*Junior Road Bikes*

I was in my LBS yesterday with my son and noticed that the junior sized Trek 1000 has the CX style top mount brake levers. That initially struck me as a good idea, but now it sounds like a really bad one. Adults come in all varieties in terms of attentiveness, reaction time, panic inclination etc., but kids in the 10-14 age group, the ones to whom this bike is targeted, are almost universally inattentive to many road hazards and therefore far more likely to react suddenly and panic in an emergency.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

*Revised thinking, somewhat.*

lonefrontranger's and Mr.Grumpy's second post got me thinking, and I need to revise my post a bit. Brakes are in fact designed as a closed lever-caliper system, with the goal to provide a good balance between stopping power and still offer nuanced modulation. I agree - to superimpose a second set of levers on top of this system is a problem if that second set of levers doesn't give the rider the same feel than the original STI or Ergo levers do. It's not that one couldn't learn to modulate the top-mount levers - the problem is one of _unintentional_ panic stops when pulling top-mounts that have excessive leverage and are not used regularly.

This discussion reminds me of the introduction of automobile power brakes in the late 1950's. For marketing reasons, automobile designers felt that power brakes should reduce pedal effort to a small fraction of the effort needed to apply regular brakes. The result? Many unintentional panic stops with all four wheels locked up, until drivers learned to go easy on the brake pedal.


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

wim said:


> This discussion reminds me of the introduction of automobile power brakes in the late 1950's. For marketing reasons, automobile designers felt that power brakes should reduce pedal effort to a small fraction of the effort needed to apply regular brakes. The result? Many unintentional panic stops with all four wheels locked up, until drivers learned to go easy on the brake pedal.


So we should still be using both feet to stop our Model Ts? This is a good analogy and the power brakes were an improvement.

LFR & the Grump - I spend many hours a week with inexperienced riders. First trying to get real beginners through that first 15 mile path ride and then guiding those new to the road and new to road bikes. I see the top levers as an excellent choice for those transitioning from their comfort/hybrid to a road bike. If the argument is against the small tire bike with mtb brakes (i.e. hybrid) then this is the way to make that transition. Many would not make the change without them. I use them and I watch others use them four or five times a week a really fail to see where your 'sky is falling' attitude is coming from. Having something they are used to until they get used to the road brifters (something very foreign to them) can only help.

TF


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