# Car vs. Bike Incident on Hwy 84, 6/22/2010 - white Ford pickup in Woodside



## Slave2Gravity

White Ford F250 or F350 pickup with metal construction workers framing in the bed (looks like a construction truck). License Plate 6P88487.

Yesterday afternoon at 3pm, I was heading east on Highway 84 from Skyline. For those familiar with that descent, I was about 20yds in front of the first turn when the above mentioned truck was just crossing the 84 / 35 intersection (so approx 100yds behind me at a stop sign). He must have floored it because as I was coming out of the 1st turn he was inches off my back laying on the horn. He continued a single long honk through several turns while riding on my tail or trying unsuccessfully to pass me on the left over the double yellow, due to oncoming traffic. All this took place before the long straight with a shoulder that's approximately 1/2 way down the descent, which is the only safe place to pull over and allow someone to pass, IMO. Finally, he forced himself beside me _on my right_ (I was riding a defensive line to black further attempts to pass with oncoming traffic), rolled down the window to yell something at me, and then cut hard left while braking, forcing me into oncoming traffic. I avoided being hit and dragged under his back wheels by about 4 inches. Thankfully, I stayed upright and stopped right there to call 911. While doing so, a woman pulled up who had witnessed the whole thing and provided her contact info, corroborating what I believed - that despite the fact that I was 'flying' (in her words) the guy continued to harass me until he tried to run me off the road. Here I'd just add that I am a very fast descender, and I was going at or above the speed limit the whole time. In fact, I gapped the officer by 30-45 seconds coming down after he took my statement. I say this to show that my speed should not have been an issue to provoke the guy, as most cars travel slower than I do down that road.

About 30 minutes later a San Mateo County deputy arrived to take my statement. Unfortunately, when I told him my intent to press assault charges, he told me that it will be my word against his, but that he would take it to the DA. He gave me the impression that nothing will come of it (likely he won't put much legwork into it, even), despite my story and a witness. According to the deputy, the truck is registered to a business, though he didn't say which and I didn't notice a name on the side. It was driven by a dark complexioned male (I thought white but very tan).

Please note the description of the truck, and the incident itself, is VERY similar to a hit-and-run case that occurred in September 2008 in the same Woodside / Portola Valley area. The victim suffered a broken collarbone and broken ribs. Riders with him were able to get a partial plate. A link to a forum that includes the Mercury News story and ensuing discussion is here. In addition to this other incident, I've seen other forum posts describing the driver of a white pickup in that area throwing drink cups, etc. at cyclists.

In the article an active cyclist / racer named Janet Gahagen described the hit-and-run as a witness. She is a Mountain View, CA resident and races for Kalyra/Bella Nova Women's Cycling Team. If anyone knows her, please send her this post and ask that she contact me. If we can match the plates we'll be one step closer to making sure charges can be brought against the driver. Also, please post this message to anybody other message boards you deem fit. Word needs to get out about this truck, plate 6P88487. I'd hate for this guy to become another case like the one in LA involving an ER doctor with road rage. It wasn't until after he actually seriously injured someone that he was charged and sent to jail.

I wish I had more details to provide than that, but will update as I learn more. Ride Safe.

Jason Hegland


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## ukbloke

That's awful. Glad to hear that you survived the incident. We should all keep an eye out for this truck/driver, and report any incidents to the police. They will hopefully take it much more seriously as more independent reports get made.

Thanks for posting - lots of us ride around there, and are potentially exposed to this kind of sociopathic behavior.


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## ukbloke

There's some posts about the September 2008 incident on the Noon Ride mailing list.


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## jasonwells4

A private investigator can tell you who the truck owner is since they can access the DMV plate records.

I would, at a minimum, use that information to send some bad PR in the construction company's direction.


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## roscoe

at the minimum, I'd call the CHP and report that I saw that vehicle spewing smoke out of it's exhaust, that'll ensure he'll have a good time next license plate renewal time

tell them it was a gross polluter 

http://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/complaints/complaints.htm


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## Francis Cebedo

I changed the title of the post so others may find this post.

This sounds like the same truck/driver in many incidents in Woodside.

Keep pursuing this. This guy needs to be locked up.


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## AntF

I agree with francois, this sounds like the guy that's been terrorizing cyclists in that area for a long time.

Please do your best to get this guy behind bars. Threatening to injure or kill people because they're on a bicycle is of the utmost stupidity. He needs to be removed from society before he really does murder someone.


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## Slave2Gravity

A friend noted that through the bureau of automotive repairs you can check the smog check status of cars by license plate. So here's what I learned:

2001 Ford F350 Superduty, last smog checked June 15, 2010 at 9am @ Holly Speedy in San Carlos, CA


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## Francis Cebedo

This is on my facebook now and is spreading....

My friend knows Janet Gahagen and Janet should be in touch with you shortly.

fc


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## AntF

Slave2Gravity said:


> A friend noted that through the bureau of automotive repairs you can check the smog check status of cars by license plate. So here's what I learned:
> 
> 2001 Ford F350 Superduty, last smog checked June 15, 2010 at 9am @ Holly Speedy in San Carlos, CA


Christ, can you pick a more befitting vehicle to try and harm cyclists with?


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## Francis Cebedo

did the truck or rack look like this?

here's an old related thread, fyi.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=172875&highlight=woodside


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## Slave2Gravity

Thanks Francois. It does look like the above truck, though the bed framing was a little bit different, beefier looking and gray, if I can recall correctly. Otherwise, yes it definitely was that model truck with that configuration. Thanks too for passing info on to folks who know Janet.


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## Francis Cebedo

Slave2Gravity said:


> Thanks Francois. It does look like the above truck, though the bed framing was a little bit different, beefier looking and gray, if I can recall correctly. Otherwise, yes it definitely was that model truck with that configuration. Thanks too for passing info on to folks who know Janet.



Awesome, that's just a stock photo but a good representative photo can come in handy. We can make 'Wanted' flyers and pass them to all the cycling clubs and post it in key spots in Woodside.

The more eyes out there and the more people come out of the woodwork with past experiences, the better.

And even worst case, local cyclists will be hyper aware of this dangerous driver.

fc


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## iluvcx

Is it possible to find out the name of the registered business through public records? I'm surprised that no one on here knows any police officers. 

At the very least, if the business name is found out we can stage a protest {I'm volunteering} and try to create a boycott against them.


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## iluvcx

*oops* this is jOie, Isaias was logged in.


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## Francis Cebedo

There's 150 people viewing this thread now 
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 150 (28 members and 122 guests)

And we have a Google record of this license plate:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...US346&q=6P88487+&aq=f&aqi=&aql=f&oq=&gs_rfai=

Don't Mess with Norcal Cyclists!

^- I'll make t-shirts after we lock this guy up.


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## ukbloke

If you happen to see a white F350 works truck matching the description, please check to see if the plate is 6P88487. It would be worth committing this plate to memory if you can. If you come across the vehicle try to take a picture of the truck (and driver?), and post it here. See if you can get any other id on the vehicle, eg. name of the construction company. If it is parked and it is safe to approach it, a copy of the VIN would be awesome as we could then look it up on carfax.com. On some vehicles the VIN is placed on the dashboard and can be read through the windshield.


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## Francis Cebedo

ukbloke said:


> If you happen to see a white F350 works truck matching the description, please check to see if the plate is 6P88487. It would be worth committing this plate to memory if you can. If you come across the vehicle try to take a picture of the truck (and driver?), and post it here. See if you can get any other id on the vehicle, eg. name of the construction company. If it is parked and it is safe to approach it, a copy of the VIN would be awesome as we could then look it up on carfax.com. On some vehicles the VIN is placed on the dashboard and can be read through the windshield.



The hunt for White F350 begins today. I'll be at Woodside!

fc

p.s. this photo better?


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## ratpick

Will have my eyes open since I ride through San Carlos quite a bit.. I've been buzzed by a truck like this before, although nothing like your encounter. 

Why am I not surprised that the San Mateo Sheriff was uncooperative - the same that target cyclists rolling stop signs in Woodside. There must be a very anti-cycling culture in that organization.


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## andulong

Kinda sucks that they would care about it spewing smoke but not care what this nut is doing to cyclists.


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## jasonwells4

If you don't get the address from the license plate, it could be worth doing a little recon at a few of the closest construction companies. I bet that would provide some results pretty quickly.


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## roscoe

andulong said:


> Kinda sucks that they would care about it spewing smoke but not care what this nut is doing to cyclists.


I guess they care more about the environment than about people, it's not uncommon in our area


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## Da Chetster

Maybe there is a USDOT registration number associated with this vehicle. I don't know the requirements or criteria for having a USDOT number but many commercial vehicles carry them. If local law enforcement won't do anything, perhaps the Fed will.


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## paloaltorider

Is there a way of linking to your facebook? I would love to spread the word in my network as well!


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## SpamnRice

Couldn't one go to the DMV with the plate number to get the owner info? They did that for me a long time ago( 20+yrs) when I was interested in buying an abandoned looking motorcycle.


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## Slave2Gravity

The DMV provides links to 3rd party sites for vehicle history reports, but that requires a VIN number. The DMV won't release an individual's information with just a license plate. Great in most circumstances, except for this one.


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## Francis Cebedo

paloaltorider said:


> Is there a way of linking to your facebook? I would love to spread the word in my network as well!


add me! Francis Cebedo


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## bizzton3k

> Yesterday afternoon at 3pm, I was heading east on Highway 84 from Skyline.


I'd say head east again at 3pm, on second thought, maybe not! 

Glad to hear you're okay! I'm sure we can all relate to drivers thinking they own the road. Stay safe and keep riding!


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## AntF

Barry of LGBRC has already distributed your letter to the rest of the club. Thanks for working so quickly. Will definitely keep an eye out for the truck whenever I'm in Woodside.


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## jasonwells4

Slave2Gravity said:


> The DMV provides links to 3rd party sites for vehicle history reports, but that requires a VIN number. The DMV won't release an individual's information with just a license plate. Great in most circumstances, except for this one.


But a private investigator can access the info.


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## Slave2Gravity

francois said:


> The hunt for White F350 begins today. I'll be at Woodside!
> 
> fc
> 
> p.s. this photo better?


That photo is pretty spot on.


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## Slave2Gravity

jasonwells4 said:


> But a private investigator can access the info.


True, and I've not ruled that option out, believe me!


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## aliensporebomb

Sounds like the guy is a known hothead with a vendetta against cyclists. Do some reconnaissance with google maps street view if you have an idea of who he is and where he lives and keep an eye out. If you actually catch him in the act with video of harassing a cyclist it might do a lot of good since public outrage can motivate the police sometimes when they just think "oh crap, it's a bunch of bike riders bugged by this guy" not realizing it's a guy who is a serial cyclist harasser.

I wouldn't try to directly confront the guy, it's obvious he's a loose cannon and might overreact or freak out completely if you approach him.


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## CHL

What suck is the lack of involvement by authorities, especially given that there is an eye witness. For the justice system to hold him accountable will require another incident such as that of Ashleigh Jackson. I don't understand the behavior of certain law enforcement individuals. We're not talking about petty theft. We're talking about an intentional act to harm or kill another person. 

Some ***** who ran a stop sign hit my girlfriend. The idiot Los Altos police found against my girlfriend even though the car that hit her had the stop sign. Police report (the guy didn't even want to write one up) quoted the wrong cvc and stated that my girlfriend was speedling. Stupid cop didn't even realize that her f...in Garm Edge 700 recorded her speed, which was about 10 mph. We re-enacted the scenario that same evening. I almost got hit no less than four times due to drivers running stop signs. 

I find that some cops just don't want to bother with anything unless someone "HAS BEEN" seriously injured or is dead.

CHL


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## digby

Would be good to report it here:
http://www.reportdangerousdrivers.com/

Glad to hear you came out of it without injury.


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## fliernh

What about getting the news media involved on the basis of the police not doing their job. A reporter might feel there is a story here since the police are clearly not enforcing the law and are being negligent.

Just a thought.


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## strathconaman

fliernh said:


> What about getting the news media involved on the basis of the police not doing their job. A reporter might feel there is a story here since the police are clearly not enforcing the law and are being negligent.
> 
> Just a thought.


We have a winner.


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## ukbloke

fliernh said:


> What about getting the news media involved on the basis of the police not doing their job. A reporter might feel there is a story here since the police are clearly not enforcing the law and are being negligent.


I don't think there is enough sensationalism in this for a reporter to be interested. It will also antagonize the police. I think we'd be better off collecting enough information and details to identify the offending driver and make a case against him.


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## fliernh

Seems like there were a couple of other big cases, though I do not remember the details or location, where someone finally hurt/attacked a cyclist after having a history of antagonistic encounters and the police didn't so anything until someone was really hurt. I thought if news was slow, some reporter might want to pursue it. Maybe not. Couldn't hurt though.

Be safe.


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## dwgranda

What about taking shifts to look out for this guy for all the approaches in/out of this area? Maybe we could find a pattern when they leave for work and reverse engineer the path to find out where they live. Sounds kinda crazy but this is serious stuff. Think about how many cyclists are there in that area that care/need to care about this - that's some a lot of manpower. I'll gladly donate an hour or two a week to look out for him.


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## ukbloke

dwgranda said:


> What about taking shifts to look out for this guy for all the approaches in/out of this area?


Actually I'm heading out the door to do my OLH/84 shift right now!


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## zender

Rode that same area (Kings not 84, but close enough) yesterday just a little later than the OP. Good to know whom to keep an eye out for.

I'm a bit surprised that with a witness the cops were not interested in following up. Just too busy I guess


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## xracergal

*Any cycling police officers out there?*

Perhaps one could locate an ex- or present racer/rider on the scene who is on a police force, CHP, etc, who could get access to information based on plate # and all the material you have been gathering. Don't let this jack arse slip between the slimy crack he hides in. From my experience, one really has to constantly be calling the authorities and bugging them about any progress-if any-they have made! Write down everything-keep a journal of any work you do, any more incidents. The wheels of justice and karma turn slowly, but eventually, this whack job will get his.


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## Nimitz

keep it up guys I have seen some crazy things an internet message board can do good luck and glad the OP is safe.

a real popular car racing site called yellowbullet.com has helped recover stolen race cars, motors, trailers, etc. 100k +

Chad


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## Art853

My post about an incident in April 2009

The most recent was when biking to Santa Cruz last month while I was climbing Old La Honda Rd about 5:15 pm on Friday. A guy in a pickup comes around a corner sees me and stomps on the gas driving at me with his horn blaring. I rode off to the edge of the road to avoid being run over. It was an old light colored pickup with faded paint and dual rear wheels. I'm guessing he is a commuter and takes this route each day.​
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=172875


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## djconnel

roscoe said:


> I guess they care more about the environment than about people, it's not uncommon in our area


They actually don't care enough about either. It's absolutely appalling the police failed to take action on this.


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## zac

Slave2Gravity said:


> White Ford F250 or F350 pickup with metal construction workers framing in the bed (looks like a construction truck). License Plate 6P88487.
> 
> Yesterday afternoon at 3pm, I was heading east on Highway 84 from Skyline. For those familiar with that descent, I was about 20yds in front of the first turn when the above mentioned truck was just crossing the 84 / 35 intersection (so approx 100yds behind me at a stop sign). He must have floored it because as I was coming out of the 1st turn he was inches off my back laying on the horn. He continued a single long honk through several turns while riding on my tail or trying unsuccessfully to pass me on the left over the double yellow, due to oncoming traffic. All this took place before the long straight with a shoulder that's approximately 1/2 way down the descent, which is the only safe place to pull over and allow someone to pass, IMO. Finally, he forced himself beside me _on my right_ (I was riding a defensive line to black further attempts to pass with oncoming traffic), rolled down the window to yell something at me, and then cut hard left while braking, forcing me into oncoming traffic. I avoided being hit and dragged under his back wheels by about 4 inches. Thankfully, I stayed upright and stopped right there to call 911. While doing so, a woman pulled up who had witnessed the whole thing and provided her contact info, corroborating what I believed - that despite the fact that I was 'flying' (in her words) the guy continued to harass me until he tried to run me off the road. Here I'd just add that I am a very fast descender, and I was going at or above the speed limit the whole time. In fact, I gapped the officer by 30-45 seconds coming down after he took my statement. I say this to show that my speed should not have been an issue to provoke the guy, as most cars travel slower than I do down that road.
> 
> About 30 minutes later a San Mateo County deputy arrived to take my statement. Unfor*tunately, when I told him my intent to press assault charges, he told me that it will be my word against his, but that he would take it to the DA. He gave me the impression that nothing will come of it (likely he won't put much legwork into it, even), despite my story and a witness. According to the deputy, the truck is registered to a business,* though he didn't say which and I didn't notice a name on the side. It was driven by a dark complexioned male (I thought white but very tan).
> 
> Please note the description of the truck, and the incident itself, is VERY similar to a hit-and-run case that occurred in September 2008 in the same Woodside / Portola Valley area. The victim suffered a broken collarbone and broken ribs. Riders with him were able to get a partial plate. A link to a forum that includes the Mercury News story and ensuing discussion is here. In addition to this other incident, I've seen other forum posts describing the driver of a white pickup in that area throwing drink cups, etc. at cyclists.
> 
> In the article an active cyclist / racer named Janet Gahagen described the hit-and-run as a witness. She is a Mountain View, CA resident and races for Kalyra/Bella Nova Women's Cycling Team. If anyone knows her, please send her this post and ask that she contact me. If we can match the plates we'll be one step closer to making sure charges can be brought against the driver. Also, please post this message to anybody other message boards you deem fit. Word needs to get out about this truck, plate 6P88487. I'd hate for this guy to become another case like the one in LA involving an ER doctor with road rage. It wasn't until after he actually seriously injured someone that he was charged and sent to jail.
> 
> I wish I had more details to provide than that, but will update as I learn more. Ride Safe.
> 
> Jason Hegland


Slave2Gravity, the officer is compelled to file an incident report. I am not familiar enough with California law to specifically answer, but you SHOULD be entitled to the incident report. Perhaps a California attorney can pipe in here. The incident report should have at a very minimum the offending parties vehicle registrant on it. You would be entitled to this information in a civil action, and as a victim of a crime, which you were.

Have you followed up and tried to obtain the report. You should, and if no report was filed, you should follow up with a supervisor to determine why not. If you are serious about pressing charges (as it clearly appears that you are) let the police know about it.

Also, again I am unclear about California Law, but your Department of Motor Vehicles may have a process for reporting aggressive drivers. As a result of this report, you generally can obtain the drivers/registrants information.

Lastly, and again, unfamiliarity with California Law is my constraint, Commercial registrations are generally not given the same privacy protections of individual registrations. So you may be able to obtain the information just by asking for it. Don't know if you have tried.

HTH
zac


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## Slave2Gravity

zac said:


> Lastly, and again, unfamiliarity with California Law is my constraint, Commercial registrations are generally not given the same privacy protections of individual registrations. So you may be able to obtain the information just by asking for it. Don't know if you have tried.


Thanks, I was not aware of this and will definitely look into it. I've already filed a DMV report for aggressive driving and am continuing to press for an investigation / charges.

Through personal detective work and messages from other riders, we have one strong lead on an individual. I'm not going to disclose his name / info yet, but he was involved in a hit-and-run in 2009 with a cyclist, arrested for DUI in February 2010, lives in Woodside and works as a general contractor. The truck he used to hit the cyclist in 2009 had different plates from this guy, but otherwise same description of truck / driver.

I've been in touch with a witness to the 2008 hit-and-run and we're working on tracking down the partial plate in that case. In addition, I've been in touch with a woman from the Silicon Valley Bike Coalition, who is working towards getting us face time next week with Sheriff's Office and the San Mateo Co DA.


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## zender

That sounds promising. Keep us posted if you have time.


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## DrPhyzx

Greetings,

I registered just to post this. I live in La Honda and have encountered (I think) two different trucks that generally match this description. Please take note of this related thread in the La Honda Yahoo group. I hope it helps.

Best,
Tim

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LaHonda/message/20071


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## djconnel

Slave2Gravity said:


> I've been in touch with a woman from the Silicon Valley Bike Coalition, who is working towards getting us face time next week with Sheriff's Office and the San Mateo Co DA.


There's something to be said for the old days when you'd just russle up a possy and take justice into your own hands. The present system simply isn't working.


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## rj2

djconnel said:


> There's something to be said for the old days when you'd just russle up a possy and take justice into your own hands. The present system simply isn't working.


Ask MV how that's working out for him.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=214615


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## a_avery007

ahh i just say add a little sugar...think about it....


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## heythorp

Man, the more stories I read about (who I presume to be the same person or 2 or 3 people) has me more and more concerned.

I find it amazing with this many incidents the police have not done more. I surely don't know the whole story, but wow something is seriously wrong here. I ride these roads everyday and luckily I have not had an altercation with this person. 

Please continue to pursue this.


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## deadleg

About 5 years ago there was a nut case spewing anti cycling venom and hostile hatred towards cyclists on craiglist rants and raves. I wonder if it was the same guy. A large white truck or suv tried to push me off the edge of tunitas creek at that time. 
scary!


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## djconnel

wow -- that's profound.


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## ukbloke

I've been keeping my eye out for 6P88487 and not seen it yet. There seem to be lots of white trucks all over Portola Valley and Woodside. Actually, I had TWO encounters with guys driving white construction trucks in Portola Valley today. For the first I was making a left turn from Portola Valley Road onto OLH, and a white truck coming in the other direction stopped and waved me across the road! For the second as I was climbing OLH a white truck coming down pulled over to the side of the road to give me even more room to pass. Nice! 

Incidentally, there's a big construction project on 84 right now that is holding up a lot of traffic. Verizon is laying down new fibre to improve cell coverage at the top of the hill. They have this nifty machine that can drill underground tunnels for about a hundred yards from one point to another that they can then pull the fibre through. They seem to be criss-crossing the road with having to dig any trenches.


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## Bikinfoolferlife

Someone just passed me the link to this thread, I think it's the guy I encountered http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=209138


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## Slave2Gravity

Hi everybody,

Many have asked that I keep you updated on this case. In that vein, I spoke with the Deputy this morning who said he's spoken with the witness in my case, along with the driver, who gave a conflicting statement of a more cordial encounter with me (but at least it also confirms he was there). The Deputy then filed the report with the San Mateo County DA's office. I have not yet seen the report, though I intend to get a copy of it. I called the DA's office, and they informed me the case won't be in their system for a few weeks and that I can follow up then.

Meanwhile, a LOT of people have written me, so many that I haven't had a chance to personally respond to everyone. More than a few emails were with regards to similar experiences with vehicles matching the same description. Others were separate incidences. In either case, it illustrates a seemingly increasing issue of aggressiveness towards cyclists in the Woodside / Portola Valley area including 3 cases of hit-and-run. What's most impressive is the virility with which the story has passed around. I was contacted by the witness in my case as a result, the witness and victim of the 2008 hit and run, the president of the Silicon Valley Bike Coalition and a reporter from the Daily News. The last bit I'm sure is most interesting to you. I let the reporter know that I am interested in a story, but after the DA is given a chance to investigate fully. I don't want to undermine their efforts. That also provides the Daily with an opportunity of 2 story angles - the prosecution of dangerous drivers harassing cyclists, or the inaction of authorities in protecting cyclists. Either way, it draws attention to the issue.

As I said, I was also contacted by the Silicon Valley Bike Coalition president and exec. director, Corinne Winter. She is going to work as an advocate in this case, and can hopefully pressure the DA to take this seriously. Meanwhile, she's asked me to encourage anyone else who has had incidences with cars (or otherwise) while riding their bikes to use their online form to report it. The data they collect can be used for future bike advocacy and policy-making, as well as potential evidence in this, or other, cases. This includes incidents you may have had in years past. You can find the website here - http://bikesiliconvalley.org/incident-report.

Finally, through help from various individuals, I did find out the identity of the driver and his business, along with any record he may have. I'm keeping that confidential, however, because the last thing I want is to be held liable for slander / libel or any consequences of a mob reaction.

That's all I know for now, but will keep you informed as things progress. Please feel free to forward to other groups I may have omitted.

Jason


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## Ritchey_AD

I reported this on 9/16/2009 to [email protected]

Sounds like the same guy --- ED's HAULING


"I would like to report an aggressive driver.

I was out riding my bike on 84 from Alameda de las Pulgas to Canada Road. I was riding in the shoulder when a big white dualie truck purposely buzzed me as close as possible while passing (there was no reason for him to cross over the white line.)

The truck was a company truck with "Ed's Hauling" stickers all over it.

This happened on route 84 near Canada road at about 12:00pm today (9/16).

Both of his dual rear wheels were easily over the white line and I had to swerve to my right to avoid getting clipped by his rear fender."


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## a_avery007

djconnel said:


> wow -- that's profound.


obviously you did not think about it


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## dwgranda

Did you get a response? Seems like the area you were riding in was in Woodside or Redwood City. Or is Ed's Hauling in San Carlos? I quickly googled it but didn't find anything (actually I found too much but nothing in San Carlos).


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## KarynHunt

I'm so sorry this happened to you. This guy sounds dangerous. However ... I have what will be an unpopular opinion about this. 
I live in the Skylonda area so sometimes drive up and down 84 as many as four times a day, taking kids to/from school, appointments, friends' houses, my own workouts, parent meetings, etc. Getting stuck behind a bicyclist or a slow-moving vehicle can be more than frustrating - at times of emergency or dire need, it can be awful. 
Just last night, my dog was having seizures and I needed to get her to the vet ASAP. Guess what?? ... Yep, stuck behind a truck going 20 mph down the hill. I honked. I blinked my lights, I tailgated. The driver refused to pull over. I'm sure that driver thought I was the ***** from hell - he had no way of knowing I had a 13-year-old Golden Retriever seizing in my back seat. 
My neighbor hit his head one day and his wife had to take him to the emergency room. Guess what?? Yep, stuck behind a slow-moving car while he bled profusedly and she tried to fight back panic. She honked. She blinked her lights. She tailgated. The driver refused to pull over.
When I was pregnant, I went into labor at home. Guess what?? Yep, you guessed it. We got stuck behind a bicycle. 
What the guy in this truck did was terrible. But why didn't he just pull over and let the pickup truck pass? There are many, many safe turnouts up and down both sides of the road. From the top going down: Grand View Ave, the Thornewood Open Space entrance as well as any number of side spots or turnouts. Going uphill: Fox HIll, Friars Lane, Skywood Road and many other turnouts. 
As a driver, if I'm feeling like I want to take it slow one day, I pull over and let people pass in any number of different places along the road. If I, in a soccer mom station wagon, can fit in those turnouts, so can a bicyclist.
If someone is in a hurry, why not just stop and let them pass? Is your workout really worth causing the irritation? Preventing someone from getting to the hospital? Risking deadly road rage?
You don't know what's going on in the life of the person's driving behind you. There may be a legitmate reason that person is rushing down the hill.
I'd say the same thing to a bicyclist that I'd say to a slow driver: Please come visit our neighborhood. It's very beautiful up here. That's why we live here. Please enjoy your ride at any speed. But please understand that those of us who drive these roads every day can handle going the speed limit (or a little more). If we're in a hurry, please just pull over and let us pass you. That way, you can go any speed you like without feeling rushed, intimidated or nervous.
And yes, we had to put the dog down. No, a few minutes going down the hill wouldn't have made any difference. She was a goner. But it would have gotten her to pain relief sooner. And it would have reduced my stress level at a time of great agitation. 
I just want folks to understand that we're not always hurrying just because we're indifferent to or indignant about the desires (not needs) of bicyclists. We often have very good reason for going faster than you.


----------



## wipeout

KarynHunt said:


> I'm so sorry this happened to you. This guy sounds dangerous. However ... I have what will be an unpopular opinion about this.
> I live in the Skylonda area so sometimes drive up and down 84 as many as four times a day, taking kids to/from school, appointments, friends' houses, my own workouts, parent meetings, etc. Getting stuck behind a bicyclist or a slow-moving vehicle can be more than frustrating - at times of emergency or dire need, it can be awful.
> Just last night, my dog was having seizures and I needed to get her to the vet ASAP. Guess what?? ... Yep, stuck behind a truck going 20 mph down the hill. I honked. I blinked my lights, I tailgated. The driver refused to pull over. I'm sure that driver thought I was the ***** from hell - he had no way of knowing I had a 13-year-old Golden Retriever seizing in my back seat.
> My neighbor hit his head one day and his wife had to take him to the emergency room. Guess what?? Yep, stuck behind a slow-moving car while he bled profusedly and she tried to fight back panic. She honked. She blinked her lights. She tailgated. The driver refused to pull over.
> When I was pregnant, I went into labor at home. Guess what?? Yep, you guessed it. We got stuck behind a bicycle.
> What the guy in this truck did was terrible. But why didn't he just pull over and let the pickup truck pass? There are many, many safe turnouts up and down both sides of the road. From the top going down: Grand View Ave, the Thornewood Open Space entrance as well as any number of side spots or turnouts. Going uphill: Fox HIll, Friars Lane, Skywood Road and many other turnouts.
> As a driver, if I'm feeling like I want to take it slow one day, I pull over and let people pass in any number of different places along the road. If I, in a soccer mom station wagon, can fit in those turnouts, so can a bicyclist.
> If someone is in a hurry, why not just stop and let them pass? Is your workout really worth causing the irritation? Preventing someone from getting to the hospital? Risking deadly road rage?
> You don't know what's going on in the life of the person's driving behind you. There may be a legitmate reason that person is rushing down the hill.
> I'd say the same thing to a bicyclist that I'd say to a slow driver: Please come visit our neighborhood. It's very beautiful up here. That's why we live here. Please enjoy your ride at any speed. But please understand that those of us who drive these roads every day can handle going the speed limit (or a little more). If we're in a hurry, please just pull over and let us pass you. That way, you can go any speed you like without feeling rushed, intimidated or nervous.
> And yes, we had to put the dog down. No, a few minutes going down the hill wouldn't have made any difference. She was a goner. But it would have gotten her to pain relief sooner. And it would have reduced my stress level at a time of great agitation.
> I just want folks to understand that we're not always hurrying just because we're indifferent to or indignant about the desires (not needs) of bicyclists. We often have very good reason for going faster than you.


Ever try riding a bike and stopping every time a car came by? Guess what, you can't.

Yeah, I'm bitter - I was hit by an 18 year old moron on a cell phone who wasn't paying attention and ran into me in the bike lane.


----------



## gearbolt

KarynHunt said:


> I'm so sorry this happened to you. This guy sounds dangerous. However ... I have what will be an unpopular opinion about this.
> I live in the Skylonda area so sometimes drive up and down 84 as many as four times a day, taking kids to/from school, appointments, friends' houses, my own workouts, parent meetings, etc. Getting stuck behind a bicyclist or a slow-moving vehicle can be more than frustrating - at times of emergency or dire need, it can be awful.
> Just last night, my dog was having seizures and I needed to get her to the vet ASAP. Guess what?? ... Yep, stuck behind a truck going 20 mph down the hill. I honked. I blinked my lights, I tailgated. The driver refused to pull over. I'm sure that driver thought I was the ***** from hell - he had no way of knowing I had a 13-year-old Golden Retriever seizing in my back seat.
> My neighbor hit his head one day and his wife had to take him to the emergency room. Guess what?? Yep, stuck behind a slow-moving car while he bled profusedly and she tried to fight back panic. She honked. She blinked her lights. She tailgated. The driver refused to pull over.
> When I was pregnant, I went into labor at home. Guess what?? Yep, you guessed it. We got stuck behind a bicycle.
> What the guy in this truck did was terrible. But why didn't he just pull over and let the pickup truck pass? There are many, many safe turnouts up and down both sides of the road. From the top going down: Grand View Ave, the Thornewood Open Space entrance as well as any number of side spots or turnouts. Going uphill: Fox HIll, Friars Lane, Skywood Road and many other turnouts.
> As a driver, if I'm feeling like I want to take it slow one day, I pull over and let people pass in any number of different places along the road. If I, in a soccer mom station wagon, can fit in those turnouts, so can a bicyclist.
> If someone is in a hurry, why not just stop and let them pass? Is your workout really worth causing the irritation? Preventing someone from getting to the hospital? Risking deadly road rage?
> You don't know what's going on in the life of the person's driving behind you. There may be a legitmate reason that person is rushing down the hill.
> I'd say the same thing to a bicyclist that I'd say to a slow driver: Please come visit our neighborhood. It's very beautiful up here. That's why we live here. Please enjoy your ride at any speed. But please understand that those of us who drive these roads every day can handle going the speed limit (or a little more). If we're in a hurry, please just pull over and let us pass you. That way, you can go any speed you like without feeling rushed, intimidated or nervous.
> And yes, we had to put the dog down. No, a few minutes going down the hill wouldn't have made any difference. She was a goner. But it would have gotten her to pain relief sooner. And it would have reduced my stress level at a time of great agitation.
> I just want folks to understand that we're not always hurrying just because we're indifferent to or indignant about the desires (not needs) of bicyclists. We often have very good reason for going faster than you.



You are kidding, right? Did you read what the OP described? Unbelievable. You think people in front of you would know what was in your mind by honking and tailgating? 
Whatever you did should not endanger other people's life. Period.


----------



## dwgranda

Oh boy, I think we have a lighting of the blue touch paper here! I think your gripe would garner more sympathy if it had anything to do with the OP's situation. I don't know his bike abilities, but a guy on a bike message board with a handle of slave2gravity and this section of 84 I find it highly unlikely that he wasn't travelling with the flow of traffic. In that case this guy wasn't holding anyone up anymore than any other piece of traffic. When you get stuck behind slower moving cars going down 84 do you try to run them off the road or just wish they would go faster and shake your fist at the windshield. I do the latter, I've even done it to a few cyclists, but I've never felt the need to intimidate them or run them off the road. Sorry about your dog.



KarynHunt said:


> I'm so sorry this happened to you. This guy sounds dangerous. However ... I have what will be an unpopular opinion about this.
> I live in the Skylonda area so sometimes drive up and down 84 as many as four times a day, taking kids to/from school, appointments, friends' houses, my own workouts, parent meetings, etc. Getting stuck behind a bicyclist or a slow-moving vehicle can be more than frustrating - at times of emergency or dire need, it can be awful.
> Just last night, my dog was having seizures and I needed to get her to the vet ASAP. Guess what?? ... Yep, stuck behind a truck going 20 mph down the hill. I honked. I blinked my lights, I tailgated. The driver refused to pull over. I'm sure that driver thought I was the ***** from hell - he had no way of knowing I had a 13-year-old Golden Retriever seizing in my back seat.
> My neighbor hit his head one day and his wife had to take him to the emergency room. Guess what?? Yep, stuck behind a slow-moving car while he bled profusedly and she tried to fight back panic. She honked. She blinked her lights. She tailgated. The driver refused to pull over.
> When I was pregnant, I went into labor at home. Guess what?? Yep, you guessed it. We got stuck behind a bicycle.
> What the guy in this truck did was terrible. But why didn't he just pull over and let the pickup truck pass? There are many, many safe turnouts up and down both sides of the road. From the top going down: Grand View Ave, the Thornewood Open Space entrance as well as any number of side spots or turnouts. Going uphill: Fox HIll, Friars Lane, Skywood Road and many other turnouts.
> As a driver, if I'm feeling like I want to take it slow one day, I pull over and let people pass in any number of different places along the road. If I, in a soccer mom station wagon, can fit in those turnouts, so can a bicyclist.
> If someone is in a hurry, why not just stop and let them pass? Is your workout really worth causing the irritation? Preventing someone from getting to the hospital? Risking deadly road rage?
> You don't know what's going on in the life of the person's driving behind you. There may be a legitmate reason that person is rushing down the hill.
> I'd say the same thing to a bicyclist that I'd say to a slow driver: Please come visit our neighborhood. It's very beautiful up here. That's why we live here. Please enjoy your ride at any speed. But please understand that those of us who drive these roads every day can handle going the speed limit (or a little more). If we're in a hurry, please just pull over and let us pass you. That way, you can go any speed you like without feeling rushed, intimidated or nervous.
> And yes, we had to put the dog down. No, a few minutes going down the hill wouldn't have made any difference. She was a goner. But it would have gotten her to pain relief sooner. And it would have reduced my stress level at a time of great agitation.
> I just want folks to understand that we're not always hurrying just because we're indifferent to or indignant about the desires (not needs) of bicyclists. We often have very good reason for going faster than you.


----------



## KarynHunt

No I'm not kidding at all.
I agree wholeheartedly with you that nobody should endanger another person's life. What that pickup driver did was terrible. It infuriates me that anybody would do something like that. We're living in an increasingly uncivilized society.
And you're right: Nobody in front of me can know what's going on in my mind or my car. 
That's sort of the point. I wish I'd had a bullhorn last night or a flashing sign that said, "DYING DOG IN CAR. PLEASE PULL OVER!!" Wouldn't the driver of the car in front of me have been surprised to learn that in fact, I'm not an awful person. I was just a girl in tears b/c my dog was dying and I was hoping to get her some relief as quickly as I could.
Too often, it's easy for the driver or bicylist in front to assume that someone who is tailgating is just another unreasonable or *****y driver in a hurry for no really good reason. My point is that's not always the case. Sometimes, there's a very good reason we're rushing down that hill. For bicyclists, riding up and down 84 is a workout, a hobby, a diversion. For those of us who live up here, it's a necessity and sometimes, an emergency. Sometimes, pulling over is the right thing to do.
You're right that you can't know when it's an emergency and when it isn't. I don't have a solution to that problem. I only have sadness that both Jason and I had a bad experience on that road - each of us from opposing points of view. At least we have that in common.
Sadly...


----------



## CHL

Nothing wrong with what KarynHunt has expressed. Just be mindful of the others on the roads. That's competely different then what that Jack A.. did to our colleague while he was riding down Hwy84. Honestly, when I descend Hwy 84 and have traffic behind me, I pull over at the turn outs. Either that or I waive them through, if there is no on coming traffic. The majority of drivers usually give me a friendly wave as they pass me. 

Regardless of our best intentions, there will always be a few individuals who act with malice, intent to commit serious harm and complete disregard for the rights of others. The actions of those scumbags taint us all. Regretfully, law enforcement does not act pro-actively in assuring our security on the road, without strong outside motivation/influence.

CHL

@ KarynHunt: Sorry for the loss of your Lab. Mine passed away in my arms, six years ago (14 years old). I really miss my Moose at times.


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## Crampandgoslow

Not taking sides or anything, but, if someone was tailgating and honking and otherwise endangering your life, wouldn't you want to pull over when safe and let the person by, if only to put him in front of you where you can keep an eye on him (or at least catch the plate #)?


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## denversean

Next time you see a cyclist taking up a lane, keep in mind that he's most likely doing so to prevent cars from trying to squeeze by and either shove him into a guard rail/ditch or kill him with the side mirror. Yes, people are that clueless, callous, and ignorant around bicycles. Even so, we still run the risk of being hit by people texting, drinking, doing their makeup, or just plain being a malicious douche like the guy in the white truck.

I completely understand why people in that area might be upset with cyclists, but there is simply NEVER an excuse for using a vehicle as a weapon. A car is just that - a deadly weapon and it should be treated as such in the court system.

Finally, you just happen to live in what many consider a Cycling Mecca. Some of our country's finest professional athletes are out there training on your roads every day. They may be taking up a bit of road, but they are also spending money in your community, reducing the cost of health care in California, and perhaps bringing Olympic glory to your country. Appreciate it for what it is and take a deep breath next time you come up behind a cyclist.

Sorry about your dog btw. One of ours is getting up there and I can't imagine what this world would to be like without him.


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## Francis Cebedo

Crampandgoslow said:


> Not taking sides or anything, but, if someone was tailgating and honking and otherwise endangering your life, wouldn't you want to pull over when safe and let the person by, if only to put him in front of you where you can keep an eye on him (or at least catch the plate #)?


If you are in the way of a driver with road rage or psychopathic tendencies.... pull over and get out of the way.

It is better to stay alive than to be right.

fc


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## fontarin

Is this the truck in question?

Edit: removed link since it likely wasn't who they were looking for.


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## Bikinfoolferlife

fontarin said:


> Is this the truck in question?
> 
> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...=Ia9WuhNLurKTcvhnxQewDg&cbp=12,304.9,,0,15.52


In my case not so new and more like a local one rather than one in Bakersfield, 300 miles or so to the south.

As to 84, I use that to get down the hill whether on a bike or driving, as I also live in Skylonda. Most cyclists descend 84 at a decent speed, but there are some that are clueless and don't pull over when traffic dictates. Those that climb 84 instead of King's or Old La Honda Rd in my opinion are just asking for problems, especially those that can't hug the fog line around the many switchbacks where drivers can't see them. If you're climbing up here, choose another route (King's or OLH are much less busy with motor vehicles), and same for descending or pull over when traffic stacks up behind you, especially if someone is honking and flashing their lights....just common sense. 

The real problem up here are the idiots on motorcycles, though .


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## jasonwells4

KarynHunt said:


> For bicyclists, riding up and down 84 is a workout, a hobby, a diversion. For those of us who live up here, it's a necessity and sometimes, an emergency.


What are you talking about? Why do you assume biking is any more of a hobby than driving? Both types of vehicles are heavily used as a hobby AND for transportation.

You are talking about public roads. If you expect to be given priority over others on a public road, you *are* unreasonable.

If you have an emergency, don't assume the road will cooperate - call an ambulance.


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## zender

I wonder if there is a "redneckdualyreview.com" forum somewhere where this guy is posting about all his exploits?


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## zender

Personally, I get out of the way of sport bikes and SUVs that are pushing 40+mph down 84 or Kings not because I'm scared, but because I want to see them take a bad line at speed, preferably on a left hander so they don't take out anyone else, and wrap themselves around a tree.


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## bikejr

Ok, my friend staked out the Woodside area and found the truck. The number plates match. With some web searches, this is what he came up with as the driver of the truck:

Tim Oden
TKO General Engineering
 
It seems like the guy lives on Highway 84 (La Honda Road), west of Highway 35


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## zender

Hmmm, the address for that business is indeed west of skyline on 84 before the OLH turnoff. Streetview on Google maps doesn't show a house though. /shrug


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## Andy69

is this his Facebook page?

http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1559764324&ref=search


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## Ritchey_AD

dwgranda said:


> Did you get a response? Seems like the area you were riding in was in Woodside or Redwood City. Or is Ed's Hauling in San Carlos? I quickly googled it but didn't find anything (actually I found too much but nothing in San Carlos).


Yes, though it was a voicemail from a sheriff. He was concerned and said they'd keep an eye out. Unfortunately, since it was a voicemail and a year ago I don't have more info than that.


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## ziscwg

bikejr said:


> Ok, my friend staked out the Woodside area and found the truck. The number plates match. With some web searches, this is what he came up with as the driver of the truck:
> 
> Tim Oden
> TKO General Engineering
> 
> It seems like the guy lives on Highway 84 (La Honda Road), west of Highway 35



This company has a contract with Mid Pen open space reserve at La Honda Creek Open Space Preserve.

Maybe someone (the guys who spotted the truck today, they are real witnesses)should call Mid Pen and complain about TKO.


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## dwgranda

Assuming this guy doesn't ride motorcycles imagine how much he must hate them, wow. After living near 880 I couldn't imagine the frequency of ricers and harleys coming by my house. Maybe harder to terrorize them though.



bikejr said:


> Ok, my friend staked out the Woodside area and found the truck. The number plates match. With some web searches, this is what he came up with as the driver of the truck:
> 
> Tim Oden
> TKO General Engineering
> 
> It seems like the guy lives on Highway 84 (La Honda Road), west of Highway 35


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## zender

LOL, wouldn't it be funny if his facebook page had a bunch of pro cyclist on it


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## zender

Maybe he can't **** with motorcyclists because they'd follow him home and kick his ass?


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## KarynHunt

I'm so thankful for this opportunity to clear up misunderstandings and address mistaken assumptions. This exchange of ideas is a rare gift.
First mistaken assumption to address: "Call an ambulance." 
We don't have ambulance service up here. We have volunteer fire departments, CDF and the sheriffs office. But they're spread far, wide and thin. Response times can vary and sometimes even after calling 911, it can take as long as 20 minutes for help to arrive. In those circumstances, we have no choice but to navigate the road ourselves. That's when getting stuck behind someone can be so terrible.
Also, in my situation, I can't call an ambulance for a sick dog. Much as I would have liked to...


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## txzen

bikejr said:


> Tim Oden
> TKO General Engineering
> 
> It seems like the guy lives on Highway 84 (La Honda Road), west of Highway 35


Jeez, right at the junction of 84 and OLH - ground zero for cycling in that area. Lovely. 

If this is the guy, I'd be concerned that if someone 'reaches out to him' he may actually completely go over to the dark side. Tread lightly...


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## Francis Cebedo

KarynHunt said:


> I'm so thankful for this opportunity to clear up misunderstandings and address mistaken assumptions. This exchange of ideas is a rare gift....


Karyn, thank you for chiming in against our hostile crowd. People are listening.

'Cyclists blocking the road' is the #1 point of conflict of all bike vs. car incidents I think. Some cyclists feel entitled to block the lane at half the speed of traffic and some motorists will never allow cyclists to take the lane in front of them. We all have to do our part in this issue.

fc


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## Slave2Gravity

Karyn brings up a fair point that someone on the Alto Velo asked (well, actually they accused me of further provoking the situation to 'make a point'. This was my response --

"My rationale for not moving out of the way immediately was simply a lack of shoulder at the top of the descent. I would have had two options, leave the paved section and enter the gravel at around 35 - 40mph, which I was uncomfortable doing (even if I did get off the
road into the gravel, I didn't want to be in the position of having to begin my descent and get back up to speed with other cars already traveling at higher speeds through blind
or limited visibility corners), or I could move as far over to the right as possible to let the guy past. However, based on his aggressiveness from the start, I wasn't comfortable having the guy on the side of me AT ALL, figuring he would likely get as close as possible, or try to run me off the road. At that point in time, I decided the best and safest thing to do was continue descending (fast), protecting my line / space in the lane, until I
reached the section of 84 that straightens out and provides a generous shoulder to allow me to put a little more distance between myself and him while he passed me.

I was not trying to have a moral standoff, I was evaluating what course of action would leave me least likely underneath his wheels or tumbling down the side of the hill ass over
bike."

-- I would like to point out what some other posters said about speed - with the exception of folks on sport bikes (which I ride, mainly at the track) - I have never had issue of not going fast enough down 84 for a car. I have that road _dialed_ (incidentally, there are only 4 points in that descent where you really need to use your brakes). In fact, most times I pull off before entering the first turn and wait before I start my descent to avoid catching cars on my way down.

Like I also said in my response, pulling a bike over onto a gravel turnout or narrow shoulder of a twisting mountain road, when doing 40+ miles an hour, is not an option. I don't think you realize how much braking is required to do that and remain upright. I admit I slowed down when the guy got onto my tail (to between 35-40mph) because I wanted more margin for error. Given how close he was, one slip up on my end and I'd be underneath his wheels.

Please don't confuse this situation for a typical one in which a driver may carry a faster average speed and so catches a bike and is subsequently held up by them. This guy FLOORED it from the intersection upon seeing me, no other way he could have closed that distance between us before getting through the first turn.

I completely empathize if your frustration while trying to rush your dog to a vet. I have always owned dogs and love mine more than I love most people. I would have been in full on panic mode if stuck behind a truck. But I would not have physically threatened to run the truck off the road as the driver in my case did. All the indications you gave to the truck to pull over I'd consider cordial and appropriate, the drive of this truck did none of that.


----------



## redwoods

I just wanted to add my thoughts to this discussion, in support of Karyn's posts. I also want to thank those of you who have been open to hearing her perspective with sympathy and appreciating that there often is another perspective to think about in these situations.

I also live in Skylonda, and have had my share of stories encountering both slow cars and bicylists. As with Karyn, I too support sharing our beautiful neighborhood with anyone who wants to visit here, either on a bike or in a car. To answer one person's post about the motorcycles, that is another story (I have been hit 3 times by motorcyclists passing me illegally on the left as I am turning left legally with a signal on).

To add to the discussion about always being mindful of what might be going on in the car behind you, I thought I would share some of my stories. When I was less than 6 months pregnant with twins, I was at home not feeling well. We decided to go to Stanford just to be cautious. By the time we got to the bottom of the hill, not feeling well had progressed to contractions a few minutes apart, by the time we got to the hospital, contractions were one minute apart. So what was not an emergency at home, progressed to one very quickly. If we had been slowed up by anyone (luckily it was the middle of the night so we had a clear drive), that could have been the difference between life and death for my babies. If they had been born in the car, they would not have survived since they were not breathing when they came out.

Our next series of stories comes after they spent 3 1/2 months in the hospital, and then finally came home. They were not happy babies after that experience, and the only way they could tell us that was by crying incessantly. So for the first few months home, I was getting maybe 3 hours of sleep a night, and listening to two crying babies for the vast majority of the other 21 hours of the day. They were most unhappy when they were strapped in their car seats, and for about the first 18 months of their life, they cried and screamed hysterically for every single car ride. You can imagine how quickly I wanted to reach my destination, and how frustrating it could be to get stuck behind anyone.

I also wanted to answer the question I saw about whether anyone should be expected to pull over every time a car is stuck behind them. The person who posted this answered no, but I would suggest yes. I know it can be frustrating and time-consuming to do that, but I do believe that is what it means to share the road. When my babies were finally asleep in the car, I drove very slow so as not to wake them. Often times that meant pulling over at every single turnout to let cars pass. Even if it was just one car stuck behind me, I always was thinking that I never know what that person might need to get to in a hurry and it is my responsibility to help them go on their way as smoothly as possible. 

I absolutely do not condone this white truck driver's behavior, and do see that this was a very different situation than what I'm describing. I just wanted to join this discussion because I saw that it brought up issues in general about thinking about who we are all sharing the road with, and that you never know what might be going on in another person's life- a good rule both on the road and with any interaction you have as you go through your day. Thanks for reading my long post, I hope it gives you pause for thought.


----------



## wipeout

redwoods said:


> I just wanted to add my thoughts to this discussion, in support of Karyn's posts. I also want to thank those of you who have been open to hearing her perspective with sympathy and appreciating that there often is another perspective to think about in these situations.
> 
> I also live in Skylonda, and have had my share of stories encountering both slow cars and bicylists. As with Karyn, I too support sharing our beautiful neighborhood with anyone who wants to visit here, either on a bike or in a car. To answer one person's post about the motorcycles, that is another story (I have been hit 3 times by motorcyclists passing me illegally on the left as I am turning left legally with a signal on).
> 
> To add to the discussion about always being mindful of what might be going on in the car behind you, I thought I would share some of my stories. When I was less than 6 months pregnant with twins, I was at home not feeling well. We decided to go to Stanford just to be cautious. By the time we got to the bottom of the hill, not feeling well had progressed to contractions a few minutes apart, by the time we got to the hospital, contractions were one minute apart. So what was not an emergency at home, progressed to one very quickly. If we had been slowed up by anyone (luckily it was the middle of the night so we had a clear drive), that could have been the difference between life and death for my babies. If they had been born in the car, they would not have survived since they were not breathing when they came out.
> 
> Our next series of stories comes after they spent 3 1/2 months in the hospital, and then finally came home. They were not happy babies after that experience, and the only way they could tell us that was by crying incessantly. So for the first few months home, I was getting maybe 3 hours of sleep a night, and listening to two crying babies for the vast majority of the other 21 hours of the day. They were most unhappy when they were strapped in their car seats, and for about the first 18 months of their life, they cried and screamed hysterically for every single car ride. You can imagine how quickly I wanted to reach my destination, and how frustrating it could be to get stuck behind anyone.
> 
> I also wanted to answer the question I saw about whether anyone should be expected to pull over every time a car is stuck behind them. The person who posted this answered no, but I would suggest yes. I know it can be frustrating and time-consuming to do that, but I do believe that is what it means to share the road. When my babies were finally asleep in the car, I drove very slow so as not to wake them. Often times that meant pulling over at every single turnout to let cars pass. Even if it was just one car stuck behind me, I always was thinking that I never know what that person might need to get to in a hurry and it is my responsibility to help them go on their way as smoothly as possible.
> 
> I absolutely do not condone this white truck driver's behavior, and do see that this was a very different situation than what I'm describing. I just wanted to join this discussion because I saw that it brought up issues in general about thinking about who we are all sharing the road with, and that you never know what might be going on in another person's life- a good rule both on the road and with any interaction you have as you go through your day. Thanks for reading my long post, I hope it gives you pause for thought.


I love how cagers associate "sharing the road" as "get out of my way, cyclists".


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## dwgranda

I'm curious as to how often you are stuck behind bicycles going down 84? Like not anecdotaly, although I wouldn't expect you to keep count. It comes down to being considerate of others and if a bicyclist is holding you up when it is safe to pull over you have an inconsiderate cyclist, and I'm sorry you had to run into one of them.

It's been years since I've been down 84 but I had to worry about hitting the car in front of me and I'm nowhere near an awesome bike handler. On King's there's no way a normal safe driver is going to beat me to the bottom. I'm actually want to know how common it is to be stuck behind one on these decents since I only know my perspective.

BTW: I do have sympathy for all the non-local traffic running through your area, in my experience that means you're going to get a lot of inconsiderate people in cars, motorcycles and on bikes. People speeding, not knowing the roads and I can't even imagine the noise over the background sound.



redwoods said:


> I just wanted to add my thoughts to this discussion, in support of Karyn's posts. I also want to thank those of you who have been open to hearing her perspective with sympathy and appreciating that there often is another perspective to think about in these situations.
> 
> I also live in Skylonda, and have had my share of stories encountering both slow cars and bicylists. As with Karyn, I too support sharing our beautiful neighborhood with anyone who wants to visit here, either on a bike or in a car. To answer one person's post about the motorcycles, that is another story (I have been hit 3 times by motorcyclists passing me illegally on the left as I am turning left legally with a signal on).
> 
> To add to the discussion about always being mindful of what might be going on in the car behind you, I thought I would share some of my stories. When I was less than 6 months pregnant with twins, I was at home not feeling well. We decided to go to Stanford just to be cautious. By the time we got to the bottom of the hill, not feeling well had progressed to contractions a few minutes apart, by the time we got to the hospital, contractions were one minute apart. So what was not an emergency at home, progressed to one very quickly. If we had been slowed up by anyone (luckily it was the middle of the night so we had a clear drive), that could have been the difference between life and death for my babies. If they had been born in the car, they would not have survived since they were not breathing when they came out.
> 
> Our next series of stories comes after they spent 3 1/2 months in the hospital, and then finally came home. They were not happy babies after that experience, and the only way they could tell us that was by crying incessantly. So for the first few months home, I was getting maybe 3 hours of sleep a night, and listening to two crying babies for the vast majority of the other 21 hours of the day. They were most unhappy when they were strapped in their car seats, and for about the first 18 months of their life, they cried and screamed hysterically for every single car ride. You can imagine how quickly I wanted to reach my destination, and how frustrating it could be to get stuck behind anyone.
> 
> I also wanted to answer the question I saw about whether anyone should be expected to pull over every time a car is stuck behind them. The person who posted this answered no, but I would suggest yes. I know it can be frustrating and time-consuming to do that, but I do believe that is what it means to share the road. When my babies were finally asleep in the car, I drove very slow so as not to wake them. Often times that meant pulling over at every single turnout to let cars pass. Even if it was just one car stuck behind me, I always was thinking that I never know what that person might need to get to in a hurry and it is my responsibility to help them go on their way as smoothly as possible.
> 
> I absolutely do not condone this white truck driver's behavior, and do see that this was a very different situation than what I'm describing. I just wanted to join this discussion because I saw that it brought up issues in general about thinking about who we are all sharing the road with, and that you never know what might be going on in another person's life- a good rule both on the road and with any interaction you have as you go through your day. Thanks for reading my long post, I hope it gives you pause for thought.


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## redwoods

First of all, thank you so much for your thoughtful, sympathetic, and civilized reply. It is so nice to have a reasonable dialogue rather than the sometimes hostile and provocative replies some post. 

To answer your question, I get stuck behind bicycles at least weekly, and get stuck behind slow cars daily. I do drive fairly fast since this is where I learned how to drive and I know every curve. And I also wanted to add in the spirit of sharing the road, I absolutely have pulled over for bicyclists who are tailgating me and want to go faster.


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## Bikinfoolferlife

wipeout said:


> I love how cagers associate "sharing the road" as "get out of my way, cyclists".


I love how so many are only temporary non-cagers while riding bikes in our area. :0 I used to be one of them, too...


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## motormouse

The way I see it is that you think that you are the best and fastest descender on the face of the planet and did not want to let any one get ahead of you Slave2gravity. you brag on how fast you are. You more than likely ran the STOP sign at the top also. I say this because I do care about the safety of all the cyclists on the road. You made this guy mad because you did not let him by, I bet all you had to do when he honked the first time was to slow down and wave him by and all would have been good. If a rider that could not downhill well and was riding slow he would have gone by him without a problem. BTW how did he get to your right side? 
I am glad that you are here to tell us about your experience on this ride, and we are not talking about another cyclists death. Every time I go out and ride, my first goal is to make it back home safe to my family and loved ones, and do every thing I can to make that happen, I leave my ego at home. Just my thoughts


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## Slave2Gravity

motormouse said:


> I am glad that you are here to tell us about your experience on this ride, and we are not talking about another cyclists death. Every time I go out and ride, my first goal is to make it back home safe to my family and loved ones, and do every thing I can to make that happen, I leave my ego at home. Just my thoughts


Apparently you also leave your brain and sense at home, too. 

I explained my rationale for not letting an already-demonstrated aggressive driver pull along side me in a section of road with no safe shoulder to pass. If you're doubtful of what actually happened (a polite honk vs. running right up my ass laying on the horn for long durations) then I would suggest you read the police report. The witness driving behind the truck detailed the whole thing. I was happy to allow him past once we hit the straight section of 84 that has a large shoulder with ample space I could put between me and him.

Do I think I'm the fastest and greatest descender of all time? No, in fact there are other riders who are faster than me who I ride with routinely. My point for stressing my ability to go down hill quickly is to illustrate that there was no need for the guy to pass at that time, I was certainly not holding him up, at least not within the legal speed limit of that road. More subjectively, we could discuss how much control that driver would have been in while driving a large worker's truck downhill at those speeds. Additionally, by pointing out my experience with riding / descending, I was trying to show that I'm a competent rider with the skills necessary to ride that quickly, safely. 

Did I run a stop sign? Well no, since I came up OLH and rode north along skyline to make a right turn onto 84. There's no stop sign there, but thanks for your accurate reconstruction of the scene.

How did the truck get alongside me on the right? Well, as I also explained, while riding a defensive line further out towards the left of the lane to discourage the driver from other attempts at passing me over a double yellow with blind turns and on-coming traffic (putting not only myself and him at risk, but also any poor fellow who's coming in the opposite direction), he forced his way up the right hand side of me and then forced me into oncoming traffic. 

Perhaps in your haste to chastise me with all your earth-shattering insights you forgot to actually read my post of what happened, or my follow up on why I decided to hold off on pulling over until a section I thought would be more suitable.

I especially like the insinuation that when I go out and ride I don't have an interest in making it safely home to my loved ones. Based on the situation, I feel my decision to ride a defensive line until a point where I thought I could safely move over, was the right call. Shame on me for not knowing that the guy behind me was unstable enough to actually try to run me off the road.

I wouldn't presume to know what kind of rider you are, MotorMouse, because I've never ridden with you. I don't know how you behave and react in various situations. Because of that, I wouldn't presume to armchair quarterback your riding. Perhaps this is my biggest problem with your post (besides the patently thoughtless comments and questions) - the hypocrisy. Perhaps you're not as good at 'checking your ego at the door' as you'd like to think.


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## imjps

motormouse said:


> ... Just my thoughts


Nice first post. Welcome to the Northern California forum.

:mad2: 

jps


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## natrab

It seems the OP has a reasonable argument as to why he couldn't pull over. According to the California Driving Handbook, vehicles are supposed to slow down and use caution when passing cyclists, not speed up and drive recklessly around them. I think everyone agrees that the guy in this truck must be stopped before he kills someone.

To those trying to justify speeding on Highway 84 even in the case of emergencies, it is illegal and not worth it. Even if you're in labor or facing losing a loved one, the guilt of killing someone on the road because of your state of emotion and haste negates any justification for your actions.

If someone is dying or having a medical emergency, call 911. To Karyn and redwoods, you do have ambulance service to where you live. Woodside Fire's ambulance is on 84 just west of 280. If they're not there you will have one of the many other county ambulances on their way as well as a fire engine with a paramedic and full advanced life support compliment. For your dog however, I understand that is of no help. Thankfully you had the good sense to drive safely even though you were in a stressful situation. Others may not and will risk the lives of those in their way.

If a cyclist is riding the speed limit, then a car passing him/her is breaking the law. It's that simple. If you speed in your car, then you damn well better be extra cautious as you're taking the lives of others into your hands by increasing the risk of an accident. I used to drive well beyond the limit and have mellowed out over the years. It's just not worth it.

As for the cyclists, there are quite a few who ride like complete a-holes and contribute to the anti-cyclist hate that has become so common here. If you're on a narrow road, ride predictably and safely and show courtesy to cars that need to pass you. If someone is road raging, pull over and let them by. It's safer for everyone that way and irresponsible to do otherwise.

There is a way for us to all get along. Just mellow out and remember that driving faster than the speed limit hardly gets you anywhere faster (unless you're on a freeway, I'll admit).


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## Francis Cebedo

natrab said:


> As for the cyclists, there are quite a few who ride like complete a-holes and contribute to the anti-cyclist hate that has become so common here. If you're on a narrow road, ride predictably and safely and show courtesy to cars that need to pass you. If someone is road raging, pull over and let them by. It's safer for everyone that way and irresponsible to do otherwise.
> 
> There is a way for us to all get along. Just mellow out and remember that driving faster than the speed limit hardly gets you anywhere faster (unless you're on a freeway, I'll admit).


Hear, hear, amen!

Here's a video of the descent, made by ukbloke. Note on 2:44, there is an unsafe pass by a white pickup. But the plates don't match.


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## Bikinfoolferlife

Slave2Gravity said:


> Did I run a stop sign? Well no, since I came up OLH and rode north along skyline to make a right turn onto 84. There's no stop sign there, but thanks for your accurate reconstruction of the scene.
> 
> 
> 
> .


Well, if you take the little right turn "short cut" there is a stop sign before you get on 84, but if you actually went to the intersection of 84/35 then turned right, there is no stop sign (but why would you want to do that?). I see many cyclists make a wide right there by swinging further out into 35 after hugging the fog line before turning onto the short cut, or simply coming to a stop at 84 where there is no stop sign while they figure out wtf they're doing. 84/35 is a dangerous intersection for through traffic on 35 in any case due to the odd angle 84 cuts across 35; scares me even driving.


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## KarynHunt

I want to quickly respond to Natrab's comment that we're trying to justify speeding on highway 84 in cases of emergency. I'm not advocating speeding, nor am I trying to rationalize unsafe driving. My frustration was with being stuck behind someone going 20 mph when the speed limit is 35. I'd have been happy to go the posted speed - never mind exceeding it.

As for Natrab's contention that we do, in fact, have ambulance service up here, I'm so glad he mentioned the Woodside Fire Dpt. b/c it's a perfect example of the problem. It can take Woodside FD as long as 20 minutes to get to some of our houses. For people in some of the outer areas along Skyline, it can take even longer. That's too long to wait in an emergency. 

Yes, there are volunteer fire departments and yes, there is CDF. But they're spread far and wide and thin so we can't always count on them. I have nothing but respect for the VFD and CDF folks. They do a great job. But the bottom line is: It's a different life up here and we're acutely aware that there will come a time for many of us when there's an emergency that we have to handle on our own. It's hard for "flatlanders" to understand that b/c people in general tend to take emergency services for granted. I did until I moved up here.


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## deadleg

About 5 years ago there was a flaming cyclist hater posting on craig's list rants and raves in this area. He would gloat when a cyclist went down, brag about his big truck, spew venom towards cyclists. I think he tried to edge me off Tunitas, I was going up and he was coming down. years ago though. This sounds like the same guy. I think riding alone leaves one more vulnerable, no witness. Hopefully it just one nutcase.


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## jasonwells4

imjps said:


> Nice first post. Welcome to the Northern California forum.
> 
> :mad2:
> 
> jps


Lots of first posts here from disingenuous stay at home moms with nothing better to do in between The View and Oprah. No point feeding the trolls. At least now they know if they do anything vengeful, there is a community that will band together to take action.


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## Undecided

KarynHunt said:


> I want to quickly respond to Natrab's comment that we're trying to justify speeding on highway 84 in cases of emergency. I'm not advocating speeding, nor am I trying to rationalize unsafe driving. My frustration was with being stuck behind someone going 20 mph when the speed limit is 35. I'd have been happy to go the posted speed - never mind exceeding it.


All fine, but what does it have to do with the original incident?

If the OP says he descends 84 faster on a bike than anyone would in a car or truck, I have no reason to doubt him. I've had the experience of a driver (aggressively) passing me near the top of the hill---thinking, I suspect, that they don't want to be held up by a cyclist---only for them to find out that it's the other way around, and that they're "holding me up." Only once that I can remember has such a driver than pulled out to let me pass. 

I've been stuck descending 84 (on my bike and in a car) behind slower cars or trucks many times (and, once, a guy on a Harley who dropped it in one of the bends while (I think) trying to prove that he was faster than a cyclist). I don't see other drivers held up with me go ballistic with the horn and otherwise harass the driver holding us up. However, I have also descended 84 with slower bicyclists and seen the dangerous and harassing manner in which drivers feel free to treat those cyclists (without rising to the level of what the OP described, although I've had my share of those incidents, too, but not on 84). I think it's a power trip for them. 

Some people, when safely inside their cars, feel free to threaten and harass others. I had always assumed they did it out of spite, malice, or some other actively evil intention. I will now consider that some of them might just be doing it because they're so self-absorbed that they value their dog's life more highly than that of an unknown cyclist.


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## iconicflux

Why is it so often trucks that act like absolute pricks on the road?

Personally, I think I may buy one of these (http://www.prankplace.com/product.a...-MAGNET:-BIG-TRUCK,-LITTLE-PENIS&p=23350&c=31) to put in my bag so I can sneak it onto the side or back of a truck that's being an ass.


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## ratpick

I'm not sure what brought the non-cycling local residents here but I do think that conversations between locals and us cyclists that love riding in their backyards is a good thing... let's not be antagonistic!


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## snapdragen

ratpick said:


> I'm not sure what brought the non-cycling local residents here but I do think that conversations between locals and us cyclists that love riding in their backyards is a good thing... let's not be antagonistic!


^^^^^this^^^^^^


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## dwb2620

Any updates?


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## aliensporebomb

Sounds like the guy will eventually cross a line somewhere - he's got self-control issues that might lead him to do something stupid if not to cyclists potentially to other motorists.

Be careful out there!


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## dwgranda

Man some poor guy up there has a white f250 ending in 847. No attachments though. I can't believe how many white trucks are in this area. Crazy.


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## SystemShock

zender said:


> Personally, I get out of the way of sport bikes and SUVs that are pushing 40+mph down 84 or Kings not because I'm scared, but because I want to see them take a bad line at speed, preferably on a left hander so they don't take out anyone else, and wrap themselves around a tree.


I feel bad that I LOL'd at this. :blush2: 
.


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## smw

ratpick said:


> I'm not sure what brought the non-cycling local residents here but I do think that conversations between locals and us cyclists that love riding in their backyards is a good thing... let's not be antagonistic!



Your right. This should be beneficial to all of us. Since most of us ride and drive, Im sure most of us have seen or dealt with something like this. I try and be considerate to others whether in my F250(sorry its bronze) or on my bike. This really should be an awareness experience for us all. If a car honks, I move over(if decending I cant hear the engine due to wind noise) as soon as I can. Id much rather have em honk then pass when I dont know they are there.

As a driver I have seen a few cyclists ride 3 and 4 wide across the bike lane and into the traffic lane, oblivious to the local traffic. This is bad for all cyclists in my opinion. In this case I slow and wait until its safe to pass, usually shaking my head in discust. That being said I decend faster on my bike then I do in my truck in most case's. 

On 84 its usually me catching up to cars and trucks while riding my bike. I have no doubt that slave2gravity was wronged in this situation. I dont often decend 84 though, just because I prefer some of the other decents.

That being said I appreciate the oppertunity this thread has presented with some of the local residents to have a useful discussion. Not sure why some react with hostility. I for one prefer the roads to be safer for all of us. Hopefully the authorities do something to straighten out this bad apple in the white truck.


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## Francis Cebedo

Another report from Alto Velo:


Hi. I'm not a member of AV anymore, but thought you guys would be interested in hearing my story. After being dropped from the Noon Ride on Friday the 13th, I became the victim of pissed-off driver at the base of La Honda hill (hiway 84). 

I don't want to give details, because this will likely go to trial. Suffice to say we had a brief conversation about the stop sign, and then he pulled away. Unfortunately for me, he was pulling a trailer, and the trailer's right fender hit the back of my bike. 

I went down hard, but suffered no serious injuries. According to witnesses, he looked back, and then kept going. Thanks to several witnesses and the lady who followed the truck, he was caught and arrested. 

The fire trucks, ambulance, and sheriff's deputies all showed up quickly, blocking the road for awhile. After being thoroughly examined on site, I declined a ride in the ambulance. 

On the bright side, this should keep a dangerous driver off the roads for some time. 

Pedal on, 
Stuart Calhoon


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## heythorp

Wow both horrible and great news. Thanks Stu for taking one for the team. 

Are we to assume this was the infamous white truck?


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## cotocalicyclist

Glad to hear you are okay. If this is the infamous truck, our worst fears about someone getting hurt from this maniac almost came true. I guess it was only a matter of time with this guy. This sounds like a very serious offense that should get him off the road for some time. I am sure all of the other incidents he was involved in won't do him any favors at the trial if they can be linked back to this individual.

Again, glad to hear you are okay and as the previous poster mentioned, thanks for taking one for the team.


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## ziscwg

cotocalicyclist said:


> Glad to hear you are okay. If this is the infamous truck, our worst fears about someone getting hurt from this maniac almost came true. I guess it was only a matter of time with this guy. This sounds like a very serious offense that should get him off the road for some time. I am sure all of the other incidents he was involved in won't do him any favors at the trial if they can be linked back to this individual.
> 
> Again, glad to hear you are okay and as the previous poster mentioned, thanks for taking one for the team.



Well, to keep him off the road for a long time, they would have to show he had intent to hit this guy with his trailer. I couldn't really tell by the post if that was the case. If the guy just clips the rider with his trailer because of the turn radius and all, then that wouldn't be intentional.


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## Cliff O

ziscwg said:


> Well, to keep him off the road for a long time, they would have to show he had intent to hit this guy with his trailer. I couldn't really tell by the post if that was the case. If the guy just clips the rider with his trailer because of the turn radius and all, then that wouldn't be intentional.


The hit and run is at minimum a misdemeanor: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d10/vc20001.htm


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## ziscwg

Cliff O said:


> The hit and run is at minimum a misdemeanor: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d10/vc20001.htm



Oh, that's right, he didn't stop..............

Hang him by his toes and whip him with old tire tubes!!!!


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## Cliff O

ziscwg said:


> Oh, that's right, he didn't stop..............
> 
> Hang him by his toes and whip him with old tire tubes!!!!


More likely he'll receive a $1000+ fine, put a couple of points on his driving record that won't drop off for 10 years, and cause a long-lived spike in his insurance premiums.


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## Guest

This is a bit off topic, but...

I decend Hwy 84 at least once a week (usually on weekends). I've never had an encounter with the infamous white truck, but I've a story about another jerk-off on another famous hill, Hwy 9. 

I climb Hwy 9 at least 3 times a week after work (plus I start my longer weekend rides w/ a Hwy 9 climb). Since this is an after work ride, I tend to be at the same locations within a few minutes each time so I get passed by the same commuters pretty much at the same points each day. Last year there was a '99-00 Honda RC51 that passed me within inches every time and it was always within a half mile stretch. I ride motorcycles as well and know for a fact that he wasn't doing it because it was the correct line and I just happened to be in the wrong place. This went on all summer and I actually saw the butthead's face a couple times through his shield. 

Then when the weather got colder, I stopped seeing him riding, but I began to get passed/almost hit by a black Honda DelSol. It was very distinctive because it was painted with black primer (looked like it was painted with a spray can). Then one day this butthead came so close to me that I actually felt his mirror touch my leg. Within minutes of this happening, a friend of mine passed me (he also passed me on his way home from work everyday at the same stretch). I had my buddy chase him down and get his license plate number. When I got home, I called the Sheriff and they came out and did a report. The officer told me that unless they actually witnessed this, that there was nothing they could do about it unless he actually hit me! 

This summer I was on a ride and he almost hit me again in his DelSol right by the Saratoga Springs. I hauled butt to see if I could catch him at the traffic light where the wash out is. I managed to catch him stuck at the light in a line of traffic. I went postal on him. I told him that I knew it was him on the motorcycle as well (his face went pale). I told him that if he ever came close to me again I was going to get my motorcyle and lay in wait for him, chase him down and beat the snot out of him (I wasn't quite that nice about it). He was a scrawny little dweeb and I could see that he was shaken. The guy behind him was watching this and his eyes were the size of golf balls 

Since then, this jerk-off has not come within 4' of me....


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