# help with Look 555 2007 frame geometry?



## acid_rider

hello everyone

I am confused (what else is new?).

Look has recently posted their 2007 range, I am looking for a 555 built up complete bicycle, sometime in 2007.

I ride a size 54cm Madone 2004 which fits me well except for 30mm of spacers and zero degree stem due to very short headtube. I only have ~4cm (1.5 inches?) saddle to bar drop (saddle height ~71.5cm from BB to top of saddle) and very little of seat post showing, pehaps ~12cm approx.

My inseam is ~83cm, height ~173cm (5'8" & 1/2 inches).

I was once fitted in a bike shop for Look 555 (2004-2005 frame) and was told that size 53cm Look 555 would be my size with either 100mm or 110mm stem. 

Looking at Madone frame geometry chart the head tube is 104mm (10.4cm) in size 54cm. I measured my bike to verify and this is correct. The Look 555, 53cm head tube is 150mm tall i.e. 46mm taller than Madone head tube.

My question: am I comparing apples to apples? The geometry is on Trek web site and Look web sites. Is Look 555 headtube length not measured the same way as Madone perhaps?

Their effective top tube lengths appear to be almost same (54.5 cm Look 53cm versus 54.6cm Madone 54) and Look 555 53 cm STA is a mere 0.25 degree more relaxed (in 2007)than 74 degree STA of Madone 54cm i.e. only 2.5mm more length meaning 1.5mm total length difference (without taking bars reach into account). The seat tube on Look 555 53cm is taller than Madone (I think?) but it is slightly sloping too so with my 83cm inseam I do not see a problem here. Do you?

What am I missing? Does this mean that with 53cm Look 555 I would literally not need zero spacers because of tall head tube compared to 30mm spacers on my Madone? 

thanks in confusion

stay upright


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## [email protected]

hey bro I work for Look usa and I can tell you that you ride a 51 cm in a 555 if you are 5' 8". I ride a 595 in a 53 and I 'm 5' 11" . The Look frames do tend to run a little bit larger than their counter parts . if you need specs . email me at [email protected] . I will be glad to help you out . My name is Allen


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## acid_rider

*thanks! I was hoping you would not say 51cm*



[email protected] said:


> hey bro I work for Look usa and I can tell you that you ride a 51 cm in a 555 if you are 5' 8". I ride a 595 in a 53 and I 'm 5' 11" . The Look frames do tend to run a little bit larger than their counter parts . if you need specs . email me at [email protected] . I will be glad to help you out . My name is Allen


Thank you for your reply Allen. I suspect you have a lot more flexibility than I do. How long is the stem and how many spacers do you use?

I am in Australia. I am unable to test ride Look 5x5 (low volume, basically build to order here). So I am guessing the size. The good news is for 2007 Look will import completely built-up Look 555 bikes into Australia making them relatively price competitive for the first time ever. So I plan to buy one sometime in 2007.

What I know is this: (please be with me and advise)

My inseam ~83cm, height ~173-174cm (I let you do the feet/inches conversion but guess 5.8 & 1/2 or a little under 5.9?), a male, 46 yo. I never raced, I ride for fitness only, about 50 miles per ride, twice per week on average but working on increasing this to do centuries and hills.

I have lousy back/hams flexibility, I can only reach about 10cm (~4 inches) to the floor with middle finger when bending forward with knees locked. Stretching daily.

I ride a 54cm (74 degree STA) Madone with 54.6cm top tube and 100mm stem and Deda Newton (80mm reach?) shallow drop bars (110 stem felt a bit too long but ridable). Head tube is 10.4cm short on Madone. Saddle height ~71cm from BB to top of saddle (I pedal a bit "heels down" under load).

My saddle to bar drop is quite small on 54cm Madone, ~1.5 inches (35mm?). No flexibility. Sadly, due to Madone 10.4cm very short head tube I still ride with 30mm of spacers and a zero-degree 100mm thomson stem. And my Aliante saddle is all the way back on its rails, 54cm madone has steep-ish 74 degree STA. I tried 56cm Madone but that meant a 80-90mm stem and virtually no seat post showing. Not good. Sold to a taller mate who loves it.

If I bought a 51cm Look 555 (STA > 74?) then my fear is that I end up with ~30mm of spacers again and/or possibly a ~130mm flipped up stem, which looks rather odd, imo. Also, I suspect 51cm Look 555 will have a sharp 74 degree (or steeper?) STA which would mean I wont be able to slide the saddle back far enough to keep less weight on my hands.

So I figured (2007 model) STA 73.75 STA of a 53cm Look 555 and the same length top tube as my 54cm Madone (within 2mm?) and a much longer head tube (15cm) will make it more comfortable proposition and I will be able to ride on a standard -6 degree stem and no more than ~20mm of spacer (or even less?).

What do you think? What are the problems with this approach?

Thank you once again!


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## C-40

*accurate comparison...*

First of all, you're forgetting that the LOOK uses an integrated headset, so the HT length with the headset is 15mm more than listed on the geometry chart. A 51cm has a 130mm HT plus 15mm for the top section, for a total of 145mm. Likewise, the 53cm has a total length of 165mm. In comparison, your Trek should have a total HT length of about 130mm with the headset, so it's 15mm shorter than the 51cm LOOK and 35mm shorter than the 53cm. Up to 3cm of spacer can be added. 

I've got the same inseam with a 73cm saddle height and ride a 51cm, but I can tolerate 9cm of drop to the bars, so I would use an 84 degree and no spacer with this HT length.

Now you need to compare the reach of the LOOKs to your Trek. The 51cm has about a 1cm shorter in reach than your Trek and the the 53cm is nearly identical. 

Personally, the 53cm seems a bit large, since the seat tube length is the same 54cm as your horizontal TT Trek. The standover is also about the same. The HT is actuall taller. with no spacer, than your current setup. If you don't think your flexibility will improve, it may be the better choice however. The 51cm would probably require 15mm of spacer and the same stem angle.


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## acid_rider

*C-40, your contribution is much appreciated*



C-40 said:


> First of all, you're forgetting that the LOOK uses an integrated headset, so the HT length with the headset is 15mm more than listed on the geometry chart. A 51cm has a 130mm HT plus 15mm for the top section, for a total of 145mm. Likewise, the 53cm has a total length of 165mm. In comparison, your Trek should have a total HT length of about 130mm with the headset, so it's 15mm shorter than the 51cm LOOK and 35mm shorter than the 53cm. Up to 3cm of spacer can be added.
> 
> I've got the same inseam with a 73cm saddle height and ride a 51cm, but I can tolerate 9cm of drop to the bars, so I would use an 84 degree and no spacer with this HT length.
> 
> Now you need to compare the reach of the LOOKs to your Trek. The 51cm has about a 1cm shorter in reach than your Trek and the the 53cm is nearly identical.
> 
> Personally, the 53cm seems a bit large, since the seat tube length is the same 54cm as your horizontal TT Trek. The standover is also about the same. The HT is actuall taller. with no spacer, than your current setup. If you don't think your flexibility will improve, it may be the better choice however. The 51cm would probably require 15mm of spacer and the same stem angle.


C-40, thank you. 

Sadly, at my age of 46 with ~3 years of bicycle riding I suspect my flexibility will not improve to any great degree. It sounds like I am stuck between sizes, if Look 555 had a size 52cm frame then this would be my ideal size. If this is the case I am still tempted to stick to my original sizing guess and get a 53cm 555 with a short 100mm 84-degree stem and virtually no spacers (5-10mm?).

If the total head tube length, with head-set, of 53cm Look 555 is ~30-35mm more than 54cm Madone set-up then I will need 5-10mm of spacer and 84-degree stem compared to 30mm of spacers and 90-degree stem on my 54cm Madone. That should look very neat and be quite stiff too.

Two more questions please:

(1) Will the 84-degree stem will increase the reach compared to my 90-degree stem (5mm more reach?). Can I counteract it by rotating the bars/hoods a little bit down? I do not want to end up with a 90mm stem.

(2) Is it ok to ride with zero spacers? Would it be better to have at least 5mm of spacer under the stem as opposed to none at all?

thank you once again


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## C-40

*more...*

I wouldn't say you're between sizes, since the two sizes only have a 2cm difference in the HT length. That's exactly what's common with 2cm frame size increments.

The 84 degree stem will not increase the reach. You can always use saddle fore/aft adjustment for a few millimeters, if the reach is that critical. I find that as long as I stay behind KOP, I've got a 5-10mm range that's perfectly acceptable.

I noticed that you listed only a 71cm saddle height. Sounds low for your inseam, unless you're optimistic about the inseam. If your saddle is that low, then you should have about a 5cm drop to the bars with an 84 degree stem and no spacers. You don't need spacers, except for adjustability.

Personally, I think the 51cm is still a better fit with the shorter TT length. Riders who can't tolerate much saddle to bar drop should expect to use a 96 degree stem. Your setup will look better with 10mm of spacer (rather than none) and the 96 degree stem. Otherwise you'll have very little post showing on the 53cm frame. 

Another thing to watch for when setting up the bike is to get handlebars that place the brake hoods as high as possible. I see often see poor setups, where the rider is using a lot of spacer and a high rise stem because he has chosen bars that place the brake hood far below the top of the bars. 

I don't know if lack of flexibilty is hopeless. I'm 53 and I can touch my palms to the floor in bare feet. 

Here's a picture of a bad setup:


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## acid_rider

*thanks! I think I got it.*



C-40 said:


> I wouldn't say you're between sizes, since the two sizes only have a 2cm difference in the HT length. That's exactly what's common with 2cm frame size increments.
> 
> The 84 degree stem will not increase the reach. You can always use saddle fore/aft adjustment for a few millimeters, if the reach is that critical. I find that as long as I stay behind KOP, I've got a 5-10mm range that's perfectly acceptable.
> 
> I noticed that you listed only a 71cm saddle height. Sounds low for your inseam, unless you're optimistic about the inseam. If your saddle is that low, then you should have about a 5cm drop to the bars with an 84 degree stem and no spacers. You don't need spacers, except for adjustability.
> 
> Personally, I think the 51cm is still a better fit with the shorter TT length. Riders who can't tolerate much saddle to bar drop should expect to use a 96 degree stem. Your setup will look better with 10mm of spacer (rather than none) and the 96 degree stem. Otherwise you'll have very little post showing on the 53cm frame.
> 
> Another thing to watch for when setting up the bike is to get handlebars that place the brake hoods as high as possible. I see often see poor setups, where the rider is using a lot of spacer and a high rise stem because he has chosen bars that place the brake hood far below the top of the bars.
> 
> I don't know if lack of flexibilty is hopeless. I'm 53 and I can touch my palms to the floor in bare feet.
> 
> Here's a picture of a bad setup:


Thanks C-40. Great information, as always.

My set-up is not as bad as the photo, I have 8cm of seat post showing (just measured it) but I have 30mm of spacers and brake hoods set "up" just as you recommend (with 90-degree stem) - up, but ever so slightly sloping forward/down, perhaps -5 to -10 degrees or even less.

Given 53cm 555 is sloping top tube, unlike Madone, I suspect I will have ~8cm of seatpost still showing, if I set the height at 71cm.

The reason for 71cm saddle height is that my pedalling style is "heels down" under load and if I go higher I get pain or tightness in upper calf, behind the knee on both legs. I have re-measured my cycling inseam and 83cm is pretty accurate, give or take 5mm.

My saddle is ~10-12mm (max) behind KOPS (close to yours?) because if I move forward I get too much weight on my arms/shoulders. I also find it more comfortable to push that way anyhow.

Ideally I want to try both 51cm and 53cm but I do not hold much hope for it in Australia. I do know that my saddle/bar drop is rather small, 35-40mm max and I prefer to keep it that way due to my lower back issues. This is why I see 53cm as a less risky proposition if I have to buy without a test ride. 

But I see all your points so I will ask the shop about possibility of sitting on 51cm and 53cm in the trainer.


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## mellowman

I'd go with the 53. You are not short, and the 51 is the smallest size.

You won't have a problem with seatpost showing, escpecially since it is a sloping frame. Also the 53 will give you the ability to get your handlebars even with your seat if you want to (in case your flexibility gets worse as you age or you want a more comfortable position). 

Everything else lines up with what you are already use to and you have been fitted for one once before as a 53. The older 555 seem to have a slacker headtube angle of 72 vs the new 555's 73 degrees (just going from memory, so I could be wrong but not by much).

Also, if you go with a 51 don't forget you would have to move your seat back a further 14mm to get the same KOPS distance.


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## acid_rider

*thank you!*



mellowman said:


> I'd go with the 53. You are not short, and the 51 is the smallest size.
> 
> You won't have a problem with seatpost showing, escpecially since it is a sloping frame. Also the 53 will give you the ability to get your handlebars even with your seat if you want to (in case your flexibility gets worse as you age or you want a more comfortable position).
> 
> Everything else lines up with what you are already use to and you have been fitted for one once before as a 53. The older 555 seem to have a slacker headtube angle of 72 vs the new 555's 73 degrees (just going from memory, so I could be wrong but not by much).
> 
> Also, if you go with a 51 don't forget you would have to move your seat back a further 14mm to get the same KOPS distance.


thanks mellowman and C-40

I re-checked the Madone 54cm fit. With my saddle (Aliante) all the way back on its rails on Bontrager race-x-lite (25mm setback?) seat-post I am basically only -5mm (max -10mm?) behind KOPS. And given this and the fact than 53cmm 555 has only 0.25 degree slacker STA in 2007 (73.75 versus 74 STA for Madone) I would say it eliminates 51cm 555 because I will have to get a seat-post with huge setback to get -5mm behind KOPS on a 51cm 555. I tried moving my saddle forward +5mm and +10mm to try riding KOPS on Madone and I immediately felt top-heavy and not comfortable. If anything I could use another -5mm further back from Madone set-up. 

btw C-40 was exactly right on Madone head tube, its 135mm with headset included. And my saddle to bar drop is only 35mm (just re-checked). My saddle height is 71.2cm (or 71.3cm max) from BB if i place a ruler on top of it due to its hammock shape.

Based on your feedback I feel that 53cmm 555 would be a safer choice for me, considering my level of fitness and flexibility.

I wish to thank you for your help.

Stay Upright and safe riding to all.


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## hairscrambled

Maybe Allen is a racer? I'm 5' 8" and ride a 53cm 555 although I've decreased the stem length from 120 to 110 and I just ordered a 100. The bike seems to have a pretty long reach for someone my size. I wish I could throw a switch and try a 51cm for a week.


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## hairscrambled

*5' 8" Guy 555 Update*

So I tried a 100mm stem on my 53cm 555 and went back to a 110mm. I am running 15mm of spacers under the stem. With a 51cm bike I'd be running 30mm of spacers and a 130mm stem not to mention 2cm more seatpost showing. All and all I'm happy with the 53.


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