# Ciocc Designer 84



## NorCalWheelman (Jan 20, 2009)

Need a little help determining the year and frame material of this Ciocc. There are no serial numbers. It has chrome Campy dropouts. Rides very nice, quick handling and comfortable.


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## onespeedbiker (May 28, 2007)

I don't know much about these bikes, but I did find this from a catalog. For more if you could ID the components it might help with the date. I don't know if the "Designer 84" is indicative of the year, however the same catalog showed a Triomphe gruppo so the frame could be a 1984-90. I also belief the top tube has a sticker that says "microf c.40"; I don't know what that means but it is common on many of the Designer 84 I found when I did a search.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

It's a bit hard to see but the tubing decal looks like it's Columbus SL tubing. If the gold background of the sticker is surrounded by a blue border which is what I think I'm seeing it's SL but if that's a red border it's SLX.
I would think that a SL tubed bike would be early 80's.


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## abstrait (Jun 27, 2007)

Looks to me like a pre 86 Columbus SL, Ciocc Designer 84. Bottom line? This is a GREAT bike for actually riding full out, perhaps one of the best cornering vintage steel racing bikes I've ridden, surpassing many other more sought after Italian frames. I think this is my personal favorite bike for all out 10/10th riding of vintage steel frames. Yes, the steering can be twitchy. Yes, there are other bikes I might pick first for an all day in saddle affair. But if picking one just to hammer and hit the corners full on, the top tier Ciocc might just be #1. It converts power to speed quite nicely, too. You can drag this beast out with the Carbon patrol and not be out of the mix if you're in shape, this with pre 8spd, non indexed shifting if not in too hilly terrain (you wont have to quite worry about this as much as equipped). The workmanship is on par with others in this time frame. 

kh


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## PRB (Jun 15, 2002)

Very nice....enjoy. :thumbsup:



abstrait said:


> Looks to me like a pre 86 Columbus SL, Ciocc Designer 84


+1 I'm not sure on the pre-'86 date but it's somewhere in the mid-80s. The seatstay caps and fork crown engraving changed in the late 80s, perhaps '86 or maybe a bit later. It's likely SL though it could be SLX.


velodog said:


> I would think that a SL tubed bike would be early 80's.


Ciöcc made SL frames up until the early '90s.


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## abstrait (Jun 27, 2007)

PRB said:


> +1 I'm not sure on the pre-'86 date but it's somewhere in the mid-80s. The seatstay caps and fork crown engraving changed in the late 80s, perhaps '86 or maybe a bit later. It's likely SL though it could be SLX. Ciöcc made SL frames up until the early '90s.


From what I've seen, you rarely see any of the Designer 84 frames after 86 in anything but SLX. Pelizzoli and co did make some other frames out of SL and Aelle like the Mockba and Sprint, but the Designer frames with chrome on forks and extending up seat stays seemed to have only been in SL in the first years of the run starting in late 83 into mid 80s. I think the Designer 84 morphed from the earlier World 77/Mockba 80 but his top tier bikes had more similarities than differences it seems.

By the cranking early/mid 80s, Ciocc had a virtual industrial paradise of automation mixed with hands-on human, trying to hone in on production number perfection. Pelizzoli was probably smoking a cigar in a sound-proof office at this stage but his employees seemed to be putting out a nice "product" or "tool" even if losing the cachet of ole Pelizzoli and a few helpers toiling over each frame. This video that CR's Dale Brown posted shows the Ciocc shop in full swing, killing a bit of the romance. Turn the music to 11 for shaking of head or hit mute to study habits...

The thing about it is, with a top notch drivetrain and wheelset, these bikes performed amazingly well, in my experience, perhaps better handling in the large 59-62cm size than quite a few others of the time. I'm not talking the usual vintage ride at 15-18mph with bellies, bloated cheeks, nods, and smirks. Full-on riding really can show a difference and this damn beasts had the right angles. They corner like on rails and moved when power is applied. I also think they had good feel of the road, and were somewhat lighter than other larger frames. My early 80s Ciocc is lighter than my De Rosa, with more beefy stays and probably more SP (No question the best made and lightest of ALL my 80s Italian is _Grandis_, but that's another story).

I think it was very late 80s or early 90s when the seat stay caps changed along with that little raised Italian flag added to the rear of TT (and internal brake cable routing). These frames just seem somewhat different than the preceding Ciocc samples and Pelizzoli had his hands in different fires, too, ala Coppi in 90s.

Yeah, the Ciocc is not exactly a collectable by the CR cronies but it sure drives and rides with the best of them when pushed. I'll never sell mine. Cool thing about Pelizzoli is he's connected with all the young Fixed Gear brigade and is putting some interesting steel back on the road; there are some great recent vids of Pelizzoli at work along with some compelling comments. It's pronounced like CHURCH but with not too much R and C.

- kh


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## josephr (Jun 17, 2010)

4 replies and no complaints about the chain not in the top chain-ring and bottom rear cog????

nice bike!!! I've always been a sucker for chrome seat-stays and forks!


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## PRB (Jun 15, 2002)

abstrait said:


> From what I've seen, you rarely see any of the Designer 84 frames after 86 in anything but SLX. Pelizzoli and co did make some other frames out of SL and Aelle like the Mockba and Sprint, but the Designer frames with chrome on forks and extending up seat stays seemed to have only been in SL in the first years of the run starting in late 83 into mid 80s.


You may well be correct - I was referring to SL frames in general, not just the Designer 84.


> I think it was very late 80s or early 90s when the seat stay caps changed along with that little raised Italian flag added to the rear of TT (and internal brake cable routing). These frames just seem somewhat different than the preceding Ciocc samples and Pelizzoli had his hands in different fires, too, ala Coppi in 90s.


It was the late 80s for sure. FWIW, Giovanni sold the company in 1980.


> I'll never sell mine. Cool thing about Pelizzoli is he's connected with all the young Fixed Gear brigade and is putting some interesting steel back on the road; there are some great recent vids of Pelizzoli at work along with some compelling comments. It's pronounced like CHURCH but with not too much R and C.


I have no desire to ever get rid of mine either, even though it's a SL model from 1992. It's just a great ride. As for the new frames, they're pretty nice too. 
And from what I've heard from the man himself, it's more like "choach". 

Yeah, you could say I'm a fan.....


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## onespeedbiker (May 28, 2007)

josephr said:


> 4 replies and no complaints about the chain not in the top chain-ring and bottom rear cog????
> 
> nice bike!!! I've always been a sucker for chrome seat-stays and forks!


Look again, the chain is on the second to bottom cog; style allowable


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## NorCalWheelman (Jan 20, 2009)

Wow! Thank you all so much for the education. I enjoy this bike more every time I ride it. The handling is incredible and very responsive. I have been in the Dallas TX area for the past 3 weeks for work and it feels great passing all the Cervelo riders. I definitely get the double take as I pass. After closer inspection, I can make out the SL on the tubing material decal.


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## brewster (Jun 15, 2004)

Every time I start dreaming of other paint schemes for an old skool ride, somebody posts an Italian red machine with Campy dressing, and I say to myself, the search is over. You just can't beat red. Looks awesome! :thumbsup: ....Say, what brand and model of brake shoes and holders are on your Pelizolli? The Deltas have an odd ball sized opening and don't fit every shoe. I really need new ones on my Deltas.

brewster


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## PRB (Jun 15, 2002)

brewster said:


> Every time I start dreaming of other paint schemes for an old skool ride, somebody posts an Italian red machine with Campy dressing, and I say to myself, the search is over. You just can't beat red. Looks awesome! :thumbsup:


 It is hard to beat red for anything Italian. Thank you.



> Say, what brand and model of brake shoes and holders are on your Pelizolli? The Deltas have an odd ball sized opening and don't fit every shoe. I really need new ones on my Deltas.


They are BBB TechStop Campagnolo pads/holders, I _think_ the model number is BBS-22C. They aren't a perfect fit but it's close enough that once tightened down they don't move around. They were a pretty tight fit on the front; the pad holders are longer than the stock ones and they barely clear the fork. If you just want replacement pads for your stock holders there are usually several sets on eBay though they don't come cheap.


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## zacolnago (Feb 15, 2006)

PRB said:


> It is hard to beat red for anything Italian. Thank you.
> 
> They are BBB TechStop Campagnolo pads/holders, I _think_ the model number is BBS-22C. They aren't a perfect fit but it's close enough that once tightened down they don't move around. They were a pretty tight fit on the front; the pad holders are longer than the stock ones and they barely clear the fork. If you just want replacement pads for your stock holders there are usually several sets on eBay though they don't come cheap.


I doubt those will work on C-Record Delta's though. I tried to use my Croce brake holders/pads on my Record Deltas and was disappointed to find that the Croce pads/holders are narrower and don't make contact with the rim.


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## nayr497 (Nov 8, 2008)

I just left the library and there was a Ciocc parked next to my bike. It was a frankenstein bike of sorts - half Campagnolo/half Shimano components, an ugly rising stem, weird platform covers on the clipless pedals, very dirty.

I was hoping the pilot would come out so I could ask them a bit about it. I'm guessing it was either a hand-off from a father or they picked it up at a bike co-op and didn't really know what they had.

Pretty nice bike, pretty beat up though, and really uncared for. Ugh.


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## abstrait (Jun 27, 2007)

PRB said:


> And from what I've heard from the man himself, it's more like "choach".


I never got to respond to your post way back in this Ciocc thread. Still one of my favorite frames on a pure "performance at 10/10", even if ole Pelizzoli is not involved directly after '80. 

But did want to show you why I dont think everyone should continue the "Choach" pronunciation. There are a few videos that illustrate the correct pronunciation but the most clear is from Giovanni himself. Take a look and listen to this one, which is why I was saying it was "Church" but with a more more soft U and R, and a bit different than the prevailing "Choach".

Ciöcc Restoration - YouTube

My two Grandis probably comes in #1 with the Ciocc very close (on the road). The De Rosa is almost as good although slightly more relaxed...a great rider...right behind (perhaps slightly better for long distance).

You have two fine samples of the Pelizzoli breed. 

- kh


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## epicus07 (Aug 3, 2009)

Next time leave a note


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## abstrait (Jun 27, 2007)

Wow, you went for four posts to 16 in the last five minutes; probably should have been 15 posts in said time. But thanks for the advice, Cheech. It originally was going to be a note but thought the video rather compelling as you don't hear ole Giovanni say the company name too often.

- kh


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## sokre (Jun 15, 2014)

Hi!
I bought the same bike (Ciöcc "Designer 1984" Super Record on velospace, the place for bikes) only Dura ace 7 speed but I have problem with toptube and cable guide.
Cable guide needs replacing.
Does the cable guide and cabel for rear brake go through entire toptube?
Or is it 2 pieces (one from handlebars to the toptube and then another form rear of the toptube to the rear brake)? In which case what kind of end for cabel do I use because normal caps are too big?
Problem is when I tried to remove cable guide it broke so I dont know if it has piece left inside toptube.


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