# 2013 TCR Advanced 0 - Downtube Rattle



## Gank (Aug 10, 2012)

Hi everyone,

I'm on my second 2013 TCR Advanced 0 after returning the first due to excessive and incredibly distracting amplified rattling from the downtube.

It is a minor nit to pick, but it is almost maddening hearing this road texture clatter. If I'm riding on anything other than perfectly smooth road surface, it sounds like someone's hidden maracas in the downtube as a sick practical joke.

The dealer was incredibly awesome and swapped out for a new frame, but the new one has the same problem, if slightly diminished.

I've been led to understand it's the Di2 cabling / cable ties, but I promise you the 2012 that I test rode had no such rattle, nor does my wife's 2012 Avail Advanced 0 with the same Ultegra Di2.

Is this a new feature for 2013? Because it sucks!

Any recommendations (apart from spraying foam insulation into the downtube) on how to resolve the issue? Trying really hard not to make my dealer hate me, but if I had known this model was going to rattle like this, I'd never have ordered it.

Thanks for any advice!


----------



## r1lee (Jul 22, 2012)

Does the dealer also confirm the rattling? If so, maybe it's a giant issue now and some sort of recall/fix should be done.


----------



## twalkman (Jul 23, 2011)

FYI, I have the 2013 Advanced SL 4 and there are no rattles anywhere. So you might be right about the Di2. Do you think it is an internal cable routing issue?


----------



## wthensler (Aug 26, 2012)

Hmmmmm. Just purchased a 2012 Defy Advanced 0 with Ui2. Will report back when I pick it up and give it a good ride......


----------



## Gank (Aug 10, 2012)

double-post, sorry


----------



## Gank (Aug 10, 2012)

twalkman said:


> FYI, I have the 2013 Advanced SL 4 and there are no rattles anywhere. So you might be right about the Di2. Do you think it is an internal cable routing issue?


It definitely might be - but again I wonder why prior models of the same bike (and other bikes from different manufacturers) with Di2 don't have this problem. Wondering if Giant cut some corners on the 2013 model to save a few pennies -- fewer cable straps or some such, allowing the cables to slap unrestricted within the downtube.


----------



## Gank (Aug 10, 2012)

wthensler said:


> Hmmmmm. Just purchased a 2012 Defy Advanced 0 with Ui2. Will report back when I pick it up and give it a good ride......


Pick it up by the seat post and stem and shake gently up and down to simulate bumps. If it has the rattle, you will definitely know right away. 

For what it's worth, I rode 14 different Di2 bikes before ordering the Giant. None of them rattled like this, including the 2012 Giant models, so I think you're reasonably safe with the 2012 Defy (nice bike, too!)

Let me know though - I think it would be interesting if I'm not the only unlucky person to find rattling bikes out of the millions sold!


----------



## Gank (Aug 10, 2012)

r1lee said:


> Does the dealer also confirm the rattling? If so, maybe it's a giant issue now and some sort of recall/fix should be done.


Thanks for the post r1lee.
Yes, the LBS is aware of it. The problem is very easy to demo without moving the bike very much. A simple up-down shake is all it takes to elicit the noise.

When I showed this to them, the owner happened to be standing nearby and said, "What the hell is that?" It was pretty clear that the noise is unexpected. At first it was assumed to be cable slap on the outside, or chain slap, or toe clips, but as the techs gathered around to shake and listen, they discerned absolutely that the sound is coming from the downtube.

I agree that this is a Giant problem, which is why I hate to pressure my LBS to resolve it, and also why I posted here in case anyone else has seen this problem as well. I thought it was a fluke at first, but two bikes in two weeks with the same problem? Not good.

I'm going to make a video that demonstrates the issue and link to it here so you can see how obnoxious the rattle is (and add a couple more Di2 bikes that do NOT have this problem, for comparison).


----------



## icsloppl (Aug 25, 2009)

The 2012 Advanced 0 i rode didn't rattle. My 2012 SL3 doesn't rattle, but if you hit something, pothole, tracks, rock, the internal cables will "thwack" the downtube which makes a fairly loud, hollow sound.
If the cables aren't sized to length correctly and they're in constant contact with the downtube, they certainly would rattle I'd think.


----------



## wthensler (Aug 26, 2012)

Gank said:


> Pick it up by the seat post and stem and shake gently up and down to simulate bumps. If it has the rattle, you will definitely know right away.
> 
> For what it's worth, I rode 14 different Di2 bikes before ordering the Giant. None of them rattled like this, including the 2012 Giant models, so I think you're reasonably safe with the 2012 Defy (nice bike, too!)
> 
> Let me know though - I think it would be interesting if I'm not the only unlucky person to find rattling bikes out of the millions sold!


It may arrive as soon as tomorrow. I will do exactly as you stated, thanks for the idea. I'm pretty excited as I was told there were no more '12s available, and this one showed up out of the blue (actually it's silver).


----------



## twalkman (Jul 23, 2011)

How does the Di2 wire compare to a cable? Is the wire installed with insulation on it? The cable is going to be held under tension, whereas I guess the wire would be more loose. Maybe the wire is being installed too tight, or too loose. I doubt that Giant was trying to save a few pennies and messed up the design. It also seems unlikely that two separate frames have a manufacturing defect that would cause the rattling - especially since it's not a problem on my bike and they use the same frame on all SL's. 

I'm guessing there's a trick to installing the Di2 that the mechanic doesn't know. Any other Giant dealers in your area where you could check one of their 2013 bikes? 

Finally, I wouldn't worry about making the LBS mad. Or making sure the Giant rep gets involved. You spent a lot of money on that bike and deserve to be happy with it.


----------



## Gank (Aug 10, 2012)

twalkman said:


> How does the Di2 wire compare to a cable? Is the wire installed with insulation on it? The cable is going to be held under tension, whereas I guess the wire would be more loose. Maybe the wire is being installed too tight, or too loose. I'm guessing there's a trick to installing the Di2 that the mechanic doesn't know. Any other Giant dealers in your area where you could check one of their 2013 bikes?
> 
> Finally, I wouldn't worry about making the LBS mad. Or making sure the Giant rep gets involved. You spent a lot of money on that bike and deserve to be happy with it.


These are great questions that I just don't have the answers to.

There aren't a lot of 2013 models in stock locally; I ordered mine early. Hopefully they'll begin to land around the area soon, but either way I'll be calling the LBS tomorrow and letting them know we need to take another swing at the problem.

Appreciate you checking in with your thoughts.


----------



## Gank (Aug 10, 2012)

icsloppl said:


> The 2012 Advanced 0 i rode didn't rattle. My 2012 SL3 doesn't rattle, but if you hit something, pothole, tracks, rock, the internal cables will "thwack" the downtube which makes a fairly loud, hollow sound.
> If the cables aren't sized to length correctly and they're in constant contact with the downtube, they certainly would rattle I'd think.


So you're saying that your internally routed cables thwack against the downtube when you hit the slightly harder bumps? What you are describing sounds like it could be the same symptom.

Have you thought to resolve it, or are you okay with the thwacking noise?

Having exterior routed cables under tension on previous bikes, I've never had this issue before, so to my ears it's obscenely loud!


----------



## icsloppl (Aug 25, 2009)

Gank said:


> So you're saying that your internally routed cables thwack against the downtube when you hit the slightly harder bumps? What you are describing sounds like it could be the same symptom.
> 
> Have you thought to resolve it, or are you okay with the thwacking noise?
> 
> Having exterior routed cables under tension on previous bikes, I've never had this issue before, so to my ears it's obscenely loud!


Yes, that's clearly what's happening to me.

After it happened a couple of times it doesn't bother me at all. It's kind of like the bike complaining that i was stupid enough to hit something hard enough to make it go ouch.

I've had an internal rear brake cable, but the cable is in its housing and not free to move. With the "standard" internal cables on the 2012 SL, they are bare, but they're under tension. With Di2, (as i understand it) all you have are wires, and not under tension. It's not surprising that if they aren't sized exactly correctly that they would rattle as you describe.


----------



## wthensler (Aug 26, 2012)

Well, I just picked up my Defy Advanced 0 (2012). No rattles from the downtube. In fact, with the Di2, the bike is just plain quiet.....

I'll post Pics separately.


----------



## wthensler (Aug 26, 2012)

Gank said:


> These are great questions that I just don't have the answers to.
> 
> There aren't a lot of 2013 models in stock locally; I ordered mine early. Hopefully they'll begin to land around the area soon, but either way I'll be calling the LBS tomorrow and letting them know we need to take another swing at the problem.
> 
> Appreciate you checking in with your thoughts.


Curious if you've had any followup. As I am installing a longer stem and wider bars on my Defy, it looks like I will have to replace the Shimano SLR casing, which runs internally in the top tube. It got me to thinking about your problem. There can't be internal cable ties as the casing is meant to slide through. So either your casing is too loose and needs to be stretched and tightened (I don't think a big deal), or there is debris in the frame causing the rattle (more difficult), or last, the frame construction doesn't allow for enough internal clearance between casing and frame, even when casing is tight (design flaw). I think this are your three likely scenarios.


----------



## CLTracer (Aug 21, 2004)

It's normal with Di2 internal. Have the dealer pull out the internal wire and put a bigger zip tie on there or more than one near the junction. That will eliminate the rattle. Simple fix.


----------



## Sun Rider (Jul 8, 2012)

I've had a '12 Defy Advanced Zero for three months now with no problems. Are you sure the little control box is not tapping against the head tube when your riding? I can't see the control box when I'm riding. Please let us know how this situation turns out for you.


----------



## MrGardocky (Aug 20, 2012)

I think the cables are what's causing the rattling. I have the 2012 advanced 0 and have the same issue. They also talk about it in this video below (around the 5:45 point):

Search for the video called "Ride #56 Round table: Giant tcr advanced 0" on YouTube. I can't post links since this is my first post on the forum. It's a little review from an Australian magazine.

You can add some Padded tape to the cables or the little button housing and see if it's still a problem, but that seemed to work for me.

How are you liking the bike otherwise? I love mine!


----------



## Gank (Aug 10, 2012)

wthensler said:


> Well, I just picked up my Defy Advanced 0 (2012). No rattles from the downtube. In fact, with the Di2, the bike is just plain quiet.....


I'm honestly very happy for you. When I test rode the 2012 model, I had no such rattle and I'm glad you're having a similar experience! Perhaps it truly is limited to the 2013 models.


----------



## Gank (Aug 10, 2012)

CLTracer said:


> It's normal with Di2 internal. Have the dealer pull out the internal wire and put a bigger zip tie on there or more than one near the junction. That will eliminate the rattle. Simple fix.


While I'm certain my dealer has the requisite training to correct the issue, I'm somewhat dismayed by the dealer's reaction upon hearing the rattle. When they first thought the issue was in the top tube (remember - it's in the down tube), they pulled the cabling back through the grommets, and then I had 6 extra inches of wire sticking out, flopping in the breeze. 
I don't want to end up with a Frankenstein's monster as the dealer butchers it bit by bit. When you say this is a simple fix... it makes me wonder why they haven't been able to fix it yet. I'll bring it back in some time this week and ask them to take another shot at it.
Thanks for your input.


----------



## Gank (Aug 10, 2012)

Sun Rider said:


> I've had a '12 Defy Advanced Zero for three months now with no problems. Are you sure the little control box is not tapping against the head tube when your riding? I can't see the control box when I'm riding. Please let us know how this situation turns out for you.


Hey Sun Rider. Yes - the little control box (actually just the two cables running through it) definitely rattle when they smack against the head tube. That noise, I anticipated because I can physically see what's causing it, and it's easy to muffle. It's also infrequent because I normally only get that sharp "snick" sound when I've got the front wheel turned to the right.

The down tube rattle, meanwhile, is a constant distraction because it activates over bumps large and small, and I have no immediate means of dampening it. When I'm on the trainer, it's great! When I'm on an actual road... I've got a rattling companion whose company I do not enjoy.

Good thinking though - I definitely appreciate your thoughts.


----------



## Gank (Aug 10, 2012)

MrGardocky said:


> I think the cables are what's causing the rattling. I have the 2012 advanced 0 and have the same issue. They also talk about it in this video below
> How are you liking the bike otherwise? I love mine!


Thanks for the video suggestion! Glad I'm not the only one annoyed by these rattling sounds.  The one referred to in the video is just the cabling attached to the little control button, and while annoying - wouldn't have been worth mentioning.

The real problem is inside the down tube, literally where you see the grommets for the bottle cages. The noise emanates from there directly. The problem is that there just isn't an ideal way to get to it. Even if you take off the cranks / bb - it's not going to be easy to get in there and manipulate the wires so they shut up.

Personally, I'm ready to take a half-sheet of paper towel and shove it in there. The bike is going back tomorrow (supposed to rain, so good day for it) and I'll ask them to keep it until it's fixed.

Again - excellent video suggestion. Loved it and agreed with their assessments entirely - and evidently you did as well since we're both riding one!

If it weren't for the rattle - there would be no other bike to consider.
EXCELLENT wheels, great components all around (except flimsy bar wrap).

So far am loving it but I'm only about 1K miles on it.


----------

