# Climb to Kaiser



## CoLiKe20

3 more weeks
who's doing it?
http://www.fresnocycling.com/kaiser/2007/index.htm
this will be my first time trying. I got my bike down to 13.5 lbs and got a compact crankset.
but it looks scary.


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## z ken

you can say that again. i doubt many, like myself a regular commuter, will able to pull it off with 3 weeks remaining. may be i might give it a shot come '08. i just went to the website and they didn't provided the gradient of those climbs. do you know??


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## mohair_chair

I don't remember what the first notable climb is called, but it's early, and you'll know it when it comes, because it's where the pack you started with will break up. It's not too bad, but it does have some 12% spots. No big deal.

Tollhouse is the next notable. It's a decent climb that seems to get steeper as you go, but I don't remember the grade. Probably in the 7-10% range overall. The last section is a real grind. I'd call it steep, but trust me, you will redefine what you consider steep by the end of this ride.

Big Creek is the climb up to Huntington Lake, and it is the nasty one. It starts relatively easy at about 10-12%, then it gets hard, with pitches up to 16-18%. It eases back to 10-12% and finally drops out of double digits for maybe the last 1/2 mile. Do not underestimate this climb! 

Next is the run up to Kaiser Pass, which hits 15%.

Coming back you have Tamarack Ridge, which isn't steep, but it will remind you that while most of the rest of your ride is downhill, not all of it is. There is also more climbing when you leave the main highway on the way back (sort of near the top of Tollhouse). It's like when you are watching the Tour de France and they are struggling up some small hill, and the announcer says "This isn't even a classified mountain!" Profile the ride and it all looks down, but believe me, you are going up some more.

This ride is tough. Leave any bravado you might have at home and ride within your limit.

http://www.adampaul.com/cycling/c2k03climbs.shtml


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## z ken

base on MC description, it sure sounded very scary. almost all the climbs are 10% or higher and it's 150 something miles long?? i guess everyone will be riding compact/13-27 cassette, may even 13-29.


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## CoLiKe20

z ken said:


> base on MC description, it sure sounded very scary. almost all the climbs are 10% or higher and it's 150 something miles long?? i guess everyone will be riding compact/13-27 cassette, may even 13-29.


I switched to compact. Shimano doesn't make 29 cog so I'm stuck with 27. My buddy went triple.
I did the 100 mile 3 years ago on a mountain bike. It was not too hard b/c of the gearing but I did not go very fast.


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## Fixed

*fyi*

fyi, a thread I did a few days ago, with links to photos I just took of much of the Kaiser route: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=97486

I've finished Kaiser 4 times. The last time was on a fixed gear; that was HARD: http://www.midcalracing.com/kaiser2004.htm

This time I'm using a very light Bianchi carbon with a 50/34 and 11-25. Those gears work well for all but some brief sections. There are some sections of "Big Creek" that are very steep and go on and on. Take a look at the photos and let me know if that seems to come across.

One year I used a triple and a 12-29. That made the climbs as easy as I wanted them to be. You'll *never* regret having too low of gears on this ride. Keeping the legs fresh really helps to make the later miles easier. Big contrast from riding it fixed (did that merely for the challenge).

Key to Kaiser is to make sure you 1) pace yourself, and 2) eat and drink while climbing. When climbing hard, it's typical to neglect eating, but with 12,000 feet of climbing in a 65 mile stretch, you'll die, especially when you hit 18% climbs and have to go hard just to keep upright. It likely will be very hot the last 25 miles, too.

I know this course extremely well, as I've been riding parts of it weekly in the summers for nearly 10 years. Would be happy to help if I can.


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## MarkSasser

The descriptions are right on the money :thumbsup: 

Its a hard day but with the right training, gear and attitude you can have a great time.

Only a week and a half to go then its play time :mad2: 

If you can call riding the C2K playing  

MS


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## CoLiKe20

heading off to Fresno now. It's gonna be fun. hot but fun.


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## djconnel

CoLiKe20 said:


> I switched to compact. Shimano doesn't make 29 cog so I'm stuck with 27. My buddy went triple.
> I did the 100 mile 3 years ago on a mountain bike. It was not too hard b/c of the gearing but I did not go very fast.


I did it yesterday. I had a 39/28. That wasn't enough. I really wanted the 34/26 I have on my heavier steel Ritchey Breakaway. I clearly lose power when I'm undergeared. I traversed a bit, but that's not terribly efficient.

Dan


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## CoLiKe20

finished.
one of the tougher ride I've done.
I'm at mile 70-80 and already was pushing 10 hours so I was thinking man that was tough but luckily the rest of the course was (mostly) down hill.
the drivers on the roads were inconsiderate. Not like the Bay Area.


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## MarkSasser

"the drivers on the roads were inconsiderate"

Was there a problem out there? I had very little to worry about with the traffic during my ride.

MS


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## Rugby11

Mark, 
It's probably because you were going as fast as the cars. Congrats on the great time.


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## Fixed

*no problem*



MarkSasser said:


> "the drivers on the roads were inconsiderate"
> 
> Was there a problem out there? I had very little to worry about with the traffic during my ride.
> 
> MS


No problem here, either. One pick up driver honked at a couple of us on our way down to Big Creek, but that's it. I find that the vast majority of drivers are actually very deferential to cyclists around here.


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## Fixed

Rugby11 said:


> Mark,
> It's probably because you were going as fast as the cars. Congrats on the great time.


Yes, that's FAST! Hard for me to even imagine how fast that sort of climbing must be. 

Mark, any idea of your Tollhouse or Big Creek times during the ride?


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## CoLiKe20

MarkSasser said:


> "the drivers on the roads were inconsiderate"
> 
> Was there a problem out there? I had very little to worry about with the traffic during my ride.
> 
> MS


I had two close calls. 
One was a near head-on b/c some SUV decided that he wants to pass a slower car and pull into on-coming traffing despite not seeing around the corner. I had to ride into the sand off the shoulder. 
the second was again, an SUV, he/she decided that bikes don't belong on the road by nearly clipping me as he passed then the passenger yelled out the window something to the effect of "bikes don't belong on the road". 

BTW, you're the man. If I break 12 hours I would consider that a good result.


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## MarkSasser

CoLiKe20 said:


> I had two close calls.
> One was a near head-on b/c some SUV decided that he wants to pass a slower car and pull into on-coming traffing despite not seeing around the corner. I had to ride into the sand off the shoulder.
> the second was again, an SUV, he/she decided that bikes don't belong on the road by nearly clipping me as he passed then the passenger yelled out the window something to the effect of "bikes don't belong on the road".


Wow I'm sorry that happened.

I've always said that my biggest fear with drivers is how they dont understand how their actions can while small to them be fatal to us if only a small error by either party is made.

I think its fair to say its not a local problem but a global issue between cyclist and drivers.

*********************

For those who are interested I have the power data from the ride available if you care to read it but for now here are the numbers asked for.

Wildcat.......9/10ths mile - 5 minutes 55 seconds
Tollhouse....6.7 miles - 42 minutes and 30 seconds
Big Creek...4 miles - 32 minutes 21 seconds
Kaiser Pass...7.8 miles - 45 minutes 03 seconds

I didn't time Tamarack as its really 3 climbs not one. We rode the first one a tempo of about 12 mph, the second we big ringed and the 3rd we hard until the first snow park we we started to fade. Lucky for us we were 1/4 mile from the top and a nice 45mph downhill.:thumbsup: 

Missing the record was my fault as with the new start finish area I had to try and time it in my head with no real time data from years past. I was lucky to win last year on this course but with the 111* temps I didn't have my wits about me to the point of being able to note times.:idea: As it was I was lucky to finish and not visit the ER.

I had thought we were going to cruise in to win in just under 9 hours so we were not riding hard enough to set it. Once we reached Auberry I did the math and realized I had made a mistake.
As it was we missed it by 15 minutes or 1 minute for every 10 miles.:mad2: :mad2: :mad2: 

Thats life.

MS


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## CoLiKe20

OK... time to bump this thread. 
Just did some more training for the 2008 Kaiser.
pretty excited.
too bad work gets in the way of putting more miles on the bike.
less than3 weeks to go.


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## djconnel

Last year, I thought the enormous amount of speeding boat trailer traffic climbing up to Shaver Lake was a sure sign gasoline was still too cheap. Hopefully things are improved this year! And this year, for Big Creek, I _will_ have a 39/26.


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## Fixed

*Near Shaver*



djconnel said:


> Last year, I thought the enormous amount of speeding boat trailer traffic climbing up to Shaver Lake was a sure sign gasoline was still too cheap. Hopefully things are improved this year! And this year, for Big Creek, I _will_ have a 39/26.


Was riding up there this weekend. There are sections between Cressmans and Shaver that are a bit sketchy, but I think that more traffic may be better. Those trailers and RV's typically slow down traffic a lot, which I'd rather have than the yahoo's going 60 mph around 20 mph turns. 

Having lots of riders present, as well as the signage "bikes ahead" seems to help. 

Best thing you can do, though, for this or any other route, is get a "Take a Look" mirror that attaches to your glasses. Best $12 I ever spent. Been using one for 8 years. Can easily see what's coming up from behind, and while it may not make you invincible, you can move over if you see someone not paying attention, or at least time your drinking or passing another rider for when no one is approaching.

Coming back down that section of road is no problem, as we're usually going faster than the cars.

Gears? Yes, get the lowest gears you can for Big Creek. Even if you have the ability to stand and push a 42x21 up the grade, your legs will last much longer and you'll be much less likely to bonk with a 34x29 compact or a 30x25 triple. I've ridden it every possible way, from triple to fixed 42x17, and the triple is 10 times easier. In fact, Tim Coleman, who still has the course record at 8:22, was using a triple the last few times he did it, and he was climbing Big Creek in 27 minutes.


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## djconnel

Fixed said:


> Best thing you can do, though, for this or any other route, is get a "Take a Look" mirror that attaches to your glasses.


I gave up mine after almost getting tagged by a car on a cross-street in San Francisco which had been occluded from my peripheral vision by the mirror. The mirror is a benefit, however, where overtaking traffic is the primary concern, as on the road to Shaver. When bike touring in Quebec, where the principal concern is overtaking lumber trucks with no shoulder, the mirror was a huge comfort, as it allowed me to easily assess the nature of overtaking traffic. So advice taken: I may bring my mirror along for this ride.



> In fact, Tim Coleman, who still has the course record at 8:22, was using a triple the last few times he did it, and he was climbing Big Creek in 27 minutes.


I'm fairly confident he would have been fine with a 34/26 or 34/28. For each 100 grams added by a triple, that's 18 seconds over 13000 feet of climbing @ 220 watts, not counting rolling resistance, which adds a bit more. 2000 vertical feet in 27 minutes @ 20% is 1.9 meters/second, which in a 34/26, is a cadence = 41 rpm. Not great, but, sustainable for short steep pitches, especially given the option to increase power a bit for these. 34/28 is 44 rpm.

Hmmm.... maybe I still have time go get a 12-28 .

Dan


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## Fixed

*mirror*



djconnel said:


> I gave up mine after almost getting tagged by a car on a cross-street in San Francisco which had been occluded from my peripheral vision by the mirror.


I had the same concern, so I bend mine up slightly so that it sits just up from my glasses. Can still see behind just fine, but it does not interfere with vision.

I also use mine for my 13 mile commute across Fresno, with about 200 intersections and driveways, so I certainly understand the concern with peripheral vision.

You're right, though, out in the rural areas, your primarly concern is what is approaching from the rear.


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## CoLiKe20

two more weeks. I have to do one long ride some time


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## Rugby11

just did the loop from Shaver to Big Creek and around with a compact 34-26. Not to hot. I am still going to put on a 11-28 cassette next week. I think and going to need the extra gear.


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## CoLiKe20

extra gear is nice. too bad Shimano tops out at 27.


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## djconnel

Well, despite my 34/26, my first time with a compact, I was forced _again_ to traverse on that final steep portion of Big Creek. And it wasn't as if I wasn't climbing well: okay, not by Mark's standards, not even close, but it was good enough to arrive second to Kaiser summit, tied for second at the finish (after 1998 co-winner Van McCarty caught me with 15 miles to go). That is one steep hill. Maybe if I'd had a 34/28, I'd have a chance, but an 11-28 is pushing it with a SRAM road derailleur.


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## CoLiKe20

I didn't finish. Got broom wagon's b/c didn't bring lights.
pretty upset at myself b/c I didn't train enough this year. 
Trying to see if there's even a next year


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## djconnel

Don't be discouraged! Conditions were especially tough this year with the smoke-filled air. For me, it made it hard to eat, due to a queasy stomach. I'm still coughing. Several people I know had problems. The best thing is to put this one behind you, then come back again, if not next year then the year after. And Shimano goes to 28, without difficulty. IRD and SRAM each make cassettes. This one is all about keeping ahead on nutrition and hydration.


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## CoLiKe20

thanks... I'm still bummed out though.
This is the big event for us every year as a group of us got together and do this. This is my TdF and I got broom wagon'ed. 
life goes on though


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