# What is wrong with my BB30?



## Wood Devil (Apr 30, 2011)

It seems to need constant attention. I've had creaking issues with it since I bought the bike last May. On numerous occasions, I've had the bike (a CAAD9) brought to the shop to check the bearings. Each time the thing comes back riding nice ... for a week or so.

It's almost like whenever I climb out of the saddle to hit an ascent or break into a sprint, the torque somehow loosens the bearings, and it always leads to the incessant crack sound each time I turn the cranks. Gets annoying after a while.

Happened a couple weeks back when I did a couple sprints up a hill. The noise was loud: a crack, crack, crack each time I pedaled. I could replicate the sound when I'd shift my weight to the driveside pedal and hop a bit. So I brought it to the shop and they said it was lose by a half turn. 

Good to go. For two weeks. 

Now it's snap-crackle-pop again when I'm out of the saddle.

What the hell is the problem?

Is it the BB30 design, or the mechanics that aren't doing something right?

I do a lot of miles, but this is ridiculous.


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## kattywhumpus (Aug 5, 2008)

Its been my experience (BB30 equipped C'dale Synapse here) that the BB30 set-up needs somewhat constant maintenance....about every five hundred miles a reapplication of grease does wonders to keep it quiet...that combined with proper torque specs and a dab of blue loctite does wonders....

my old octalink bb was damn near maintenance free..ahh progress...


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## Wood Devil (Apr 30, 2011)

kattywhumpus said:


> Its been my experience (BB30 equipped C'dale Synapse here) that the BB30 set-up needs somewhat constant maintenance....about every five hundred miles a reapplication of grease does wonders to keep it quiet...that combined with proper torque specs and a dab of blue loctite does wonders....
> 
> my old octalink bb was damn near maintenance free..ahh progress...


And that's about what it is, about every two weeks, 500 miles give or take.

I think I'll be ditching the C'dale for a new bike as soon as I can. I'm tiring of the constant aggravation. :mad2:


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

It sounds like a crank problem, not a BB problem. What, exactly, is "loosening up" for the shop to retighten? Cranks should never come loose where they attach to the spindle.


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## rijndael (Jun 8, 2011)

My CAAD9 had a similar issue, I managed to fix it with grease.

There's an outer washer, which IIRC is fairly thick, I think it's called a "Bearing Shield". The OD is just shy of the BB shell's ID and it clicks. I coated it in grease before reassembling and it's been click free for almost a year now.


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## rijndael (Jun 8, 2011)

Is this the same bike from this post:
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/components-wrenching/clunking-sound-bottom-bracket-258786.html

Did you try what I suggested back then, in post 11, and again - just now?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Kontact said:


> It sounds like a crank problem, not a BB problem. What, exactly, is "loosening up" for the shop to retighten? Cranks should never come loose where they attach to the spindle.


check out a BB30 crank/bb...it's basically 2 cartridge bearings pressed into an aluminum bb shell. they're held in place internally by a snap-ring. there's a bearing shield on the outside, and a wave washer on one side, then crank arms. it's pretty common for the bearings to move enough to make noise. sh*tty system, i think.


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## 67caddy (Nov 4, 2009)

I am not a shop wrench, but I have been working on my own bikes for 30 years. I read an article in Velonews in the last year. Can't remember who the author was, maybe Nick or Caley who are experienced mechanics. Author stated the primary reason for the introduction of the BB30 standard was to reduce tooling/finishing labor costs on frame production. The BB does not screw into the frame, it is pressed in. So the machining and final prep work for the frame is less than with the EXO BBs or something like an Octalink cartridge that threaded in. Velonews has done testing on BB30 setups, and in general they are stiffer than the EXO configuration. So there are some advantages. Author did not think the advantage with BB30 were worth the problems. He noted that a common solution for BB30 creaking was the use of blue locktite to secure the cartridges within the the BB.


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## rcb78 (Jun 15, 2008)

I wonder how many guys have actually seen this and done it exactly as stated.
Now I know it says PF30, but trust me, if you haven't tried it for a regular BB30,, try it. Don't skimp, clean THOROUGHLY and use the primer. Then let it sit overnight.

http://cdn.cannondale.com/manuals/127894_PressFit_30_Bonding_Instructions_web.pdf

I've done this on a number of BB30 frames from a host of different manufacturers that were brought to me for 'creaks'. Each customer I did this for reported back complete silence, myself included.
If you've followed those steps exactly and still have a creak, I'd start looking somewhere else for the noise.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> check out a BB30 crank/bb...it's basically 2 cartridge bearings pressed into an aluminum bb shell. they're held in place internally by a snap-ring. there's a bearing shield on the outside, and a wave washer on one side, then crank arms. it's pretty common for the bearings to move enough to make noise. sh*tty system, i think.


I am familiar with BB30. I'm a shop mechanic, too.


My question was simply because the OP's description of what his shop is doing sound like something is getting "re-tightened". There's nothing to retighten with BB30, and it doesn't sound like they are constantly replacing his bearings. So is his crank coming loose from the spindle spline?

If the bearings are actually moving, I'd think Loctite 609 would fix the problem.


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## Wood Devil (Apr 30, 2011)

Kontact said:


> It sounds like a crank problem, not a BB problem. What, exactly, is "loosening up" for the shop to retighten? Cranks should never come loose where they attach to the spindle.


The main bolt of the crank arm. But I just got back from a ride today, the bolt is still tight, but the creaking continues. I can sit next to the bike and press down with my hand on the crank arm and hear it click with each push. 

I can't be taking this thing into the shop twice a month to have them pull the cranks and lube the bearings. This isn't how a bike should work. I know I put a lot of miles on it, but it's been doing it since I've had the bike. The BB30 needs continuous attention. It's so aggravating that I'm hesitant to even climb out of the saddle any more for fear it's just going to make things worse?

What are my options, do you think? The bike is a year old, so it's not like I can return the thing. But there is no way in hell I can deal with this constant maintenance of the the bearings. 

I can tell you right now that I'll never buy another Cannondale.


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## Wood Devil (Apr 30, 2011)

rijndael said:


> Is this the same bike from this post:
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/components-wrenching/clunking-sound-bottom-bracket-258786.html
> 
> Did you try what I suggested back then, in post 11, and again - just now?


Yes it's the same bike. And if the shop should have done that when I brought it in back then. But I'm still experiencing the problem. 

I'm going to bring it in Monday, and specifically make note of what you mentioned. If I get it back and it continues, I'm done with the bike. I can only turn the iPod up so loud.


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## Ultrasaurus (Jan 28, 2011)

Just to add some balance to the thread, I've been on my BB30 CAAD9 since 2010 with no bottom bracket creaks. A recurring problem like that should've been resolved a long time ago, especially on your new bike. Maybe try a different shop if the first one can't solve your problem?

Good luck with it.


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## Wood Devil (Apr 30, 2011)

rcb78 said:


> I wonder how many guys have actually seen this and done it exactly as stated.
> Now I know it says PF30, but trust me, if you haven't tried it for a regular BB30,, try it. Don't skimp, clean THOROUGHLY and use the primer. Then let it sit overnight.
> 
> http://cdn.cannondale.com/manuals/127894_PressFit_30_Bonding_Instructions_web.pdf
> ...


I'm bringing this link in with me Monday morning and telling them to do it. Thanks, rcb. :thumbsup:


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

Wood Devil said:


> I'm bringing this link in with me Monday morning and telling them to do it. Thanks, rcb. :thumbsup:


Loctite 609, like I mentioned earlier.

I must be really smart, or something.


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## Wood Devil (Apr 30, 2011)

Just for the heck of it, I pulled the crank arm off myself today to have a look at things. I didn't touch the bearings since they need tools I don't have to remove and install (I am not about to get into that). 

I wiped clean and lubed the bearing shield, shim and wave spring washer.

Now, that done, I am taking a closer look at the crank bolt assembly itself. There does seem to be some play to the bolt (when removed from the bike), and am wondering if the M18 retaining nut may need tightening, or if there is another problem with it I am no seeing.

I still think the problem is further in, with the bearings and guts, but a crank problem (seeing as they are still under warranty) would put a simple end to my headache.

What do you think?


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## kattywhumpus (Aug 5, 2008)

Wood Devil said:


> Just for the heck of it, I pulled the crank arm off myself today to have a look at things. I didn't touch the bearings since they need tools I don't have to remove and install (I am not about to get into that).
> 
> I wiped clean and lubed the bearing shield, shim and wave spring washer.
> 
> ...


I guess the key is to determine weather the creaking is coming from the crankarm or the bearing/interface.....if everything is torqued to spec I would suspect the bearing/fit....The BB30 package seems very temperamental.....damn I hate this kind of stuff....good luck..keep us posted..


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

*What's wrong with my BB30?*

It's BB30. Go with Shimano's Hollowtech design and forget about it.


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## Dopamine (Jun 2, 2009)

I had a similar problem on my Redline 'cross bike. What I did was, pull the BB30 bearing cartridges from the frame (I bought the Park BB30 bearing extractor), then smeared blue Loc-Tite on the frame's bearing cups, re-pressed in bearings (I use my headset press with the proper bearing cups), and let dry. This took care of it since last year - I don't put a lot of miles on that cross bike though.

Anyway, you probably don't want to buy all those tools - I am an ex shop mech so I have pretty much every bike tool known to man. I would request of your shop mech that he Loc-Tite the bearing cartridges into the BB - I can't see why he'd object as it is not hard to "break" blue Loc-Tite using the bearing extractor. If you do this, this should at least tell you if the problem is the bearings moving in the frame cups, or if it is a problem with the crank interface with the bearings on the outside of the frame - could be too small of a washer or some such. The Loc-Tite approach will help you narrow it down as if it's the bearings moving in the frame cups this should solve it.

Also not sure if I'd give up on the CrackNFail brand just because of some temperamental BB30 issues. A CAAD4 was my very first road bike years ago - it was bomb proof but I never went to back to C'Dale because I don't like the tooth rattling ride of aluminium.



Wood Devil said:


> Just for the heck of it, I pulled the crank arm off myself today to have a look at things. I didn't touch the bearings since they need tools I don't have to remove and install (I am not about to get into that).
> 
> I wiped clean and lubed the bearing shield, shim and wave spring washer.
> 
> ...


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## mikeyp123 (Mar 9, 2007)

I dunno about the Loc-Tite approach. I've had success pulling the bearings and greasing the crap out of everything that has alloy touching alloy. Inside the cups, the bearings, the dust caps, the spindle, etc.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

mikeyp123 said:


> I dunno about the Loc-Tite approach. I've had success pulling the bearings and greasing the crap out of everything that has alloy touching alloy. Inside the cups, the bearings, the dust caps, the spindle, etc.


You "dunno" about following Cannondale's instructions?


And don't use blue thread Loctite, use 609 pressed-in Loctite.


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## Dopamine (Jun 2, 2009)

Kontact said:


> You "dunno" about following Cannondale's instructions?
> 
> 
> And don't use blue thread Loctite, use 609 pressed-in Loctite.


Yeah, that would be the right stuff for the job. I always have a tube of blue around so that's why I used it; will pick up some 609 for next time.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

FWIW, creaking I experienced with a BB30 was due to the spindle getting dry in the inner races. Greasing the spindle where it passes through the inner races fixed it, twice, in ~8000miles.


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## j.carney.tx (Jun 15, 2011)

looigi said:


> FWIW, creaking I experienced with a BB30 was due to the spindle getting dry in the inner races. Greasing the spindle where it passes through the inner races fixed it, twice, in ~8000miles.


This. I was having severely annoying ticks with my BB30. After taking it apart a 2nd time, I lubed it very generously and reassembled. No more ticking.


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## mikeyp123 (Mar 9, 2007)

Kontact said:


> You "dunno" about following Cannondale's instructions?
> 
> 
> And don't use blue thread Loctite, use 609 pressed-in Loctite.


Oh man.. seriously? Had to edit what I initially said.. cause indeed there's only one way to do this. Dang that dumby me.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

mikeyp123 said:


> Oh man.. seriously? Had to edit what I initially said.. cause indeed there's only one way to do this. Dang that dumby me.


You seem to be questioning the manual, and suggesting that the best way is the way the OPs BB has been already handled, even though it still creaks.

I don't understand you opposition to doing it by the book.


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## gus68 (Oct 19, 2010)

I also just lubed (park waterproof grease) the spindle. After going back and forth to the shop every few months. I skipped messing with the BB. Its been silently for a few hundred miles.


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## gus68 (Oct 19, 2010)

I see SRAM has a BB30 bearing assembly with gutter seal. Has anyone tried this and if so, does it do a prevent the maintence issues I have with the frequent cleaning? 

Thanks

Gus


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## 2cflyr (Apr 9, 2002)

c'dales seem to come with a lack of lube on the BB30 bikes. at the LBS i work at on some of the nicer Cannondales, we knock out the bearings and heavily re-grease as part of a normal box build. yeah, it takes time, but those bikes aren't back in a month needing the same service.


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## Fussy (Jan 24, 2014)

I've owned 2 super sixes cannondales carbon ,plus cannondale flash carbon hard tail , all bb30 with sisl cannondale crank sets , all developed popping creaking at bb especially under load(standing). I've taken crank sets off , repressed bearings,tried new bearings ,applied copious amounts of grease, minimal grease, replaced circlips, 41nm tourqe, 50 nm tourqe on crank arm bolts, all the above multiple times on all bikes , and just recently applied loctite 609 to bearings,,,,,,all for nothing!!! NOTHING has worked. I've spoken to many people from owners to mechanics to pro riders who are all too aware of bb30 problems . I also own a wilier zero 7 with bb386 mated to campy , absolutely granite like soundless bb,,,magnificent . BB30 is rubbish and a total failure in my experience as I've thrown good money after bad foolishly trying to rectify chronic issues with bb30. If u look around at what frame builders are doing currently , they are ditching bb30 in droves,BMC,BIANCHI, CIPOLLINI,,etc, only overrated crapondales are persisting with it , which I find amazing . My advice, either live with creaking or ditch it. Don't waste your time trying to fix the unfixable


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

Fussy said:


> I've owned 2 super sixes cannondales carbon ,plus cannondale flash carbon hard tail , all bb30 with sisl cannondale crank sets , all developed popping creaking at bb especially under load(standing). I've taken crank sets off , repressed bearings,tried new bearings ,applied copious amounts of grease, minimal grease, replaced circlips, 41nm tourqe, 50 nm tourqe on crank arm bolts, all the above multiple times on all bikes , and just recently applied loctite 609 to bearings,,,,,,all for nothing!!! NOTHING has worked. I've spoken to many people from owners to mechanics to pro riders who are all too aware of bb30 problems . I also own a wilier zero 7 with bb386 mated to campy , absolutely granite like soundless bb,,,magnificent . BB30 is rubbish and a total failure in my experience as I've thrown good money after bad foolishly trying to rectify chronic issues with bb30. If u look around at what frame builders are doing currently , they are ditching bb30 in droves,BMC,BIANCHI, CIPOLLINI,,etc, only overrated crapondales are persisting with it , which I find amazing . My advice, either live with creaking or ditch it. Don't waste your time trying to fix the unfixable


I've said this before. The bike companies are jumping on the bb30 band wagon to save on production costs. The pros don't care because they get new bikes every year and have professional support maintaining their bikes and dealing with these issues. The rest of us need to look past the hype of bb30 and press fit and get bikes that are designed with common sense in mind, for the buyer who wants to ride it and not have it sit in the shop.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

I own two bikes with BB30: Parlee, and Cannondale. Each bike had creaking issues, and each time the creaking _was due to a wheel skewer_. Once the skewer issues were corrected, the bikes were dead silent (and continue to be so).

I wonder how many people who complain of BB30 creaking are actually experiencing skewer creaking and aren't aware?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

tvad said:


> I own two bikes with BB30: Parlee, and Cannondale. Each bike had creaking issues, and each time the creaking _was due to a wheel skewer_. Once the skewer issues were corrected, the bikes were dead silent (and continue to be so).
> 
> I wonder how many people who complain of BB30 creaking are actually experiencing skewer creaking and aren't aware?


Good point, we see this problem regularly. As well as guys that think their headset/stem/bars are making noise when it's their front q/r. 

That said, BB30 tends to be noisy in LOTS of bikes. Of course there will be bikes that are not problematic, but there are tons that are.


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## MarshallH1987 (Jun 17, 2009)

i pressed a threaded sleeve covered in piston sleeve compound or something into my bb30. It has never creaked.


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## Fussy (Jan 24, 2014)

It ain't skewers , headset,seat ,seat post bolts ,wheel spokes, shoes ,pedals ,cables. iTS BB30 full stop. I have 3 bb30 creaking symphonies. I have my own tools , tourque wrenches , bearing presses, bearing removal, etc etc dazzling array of greases ,grease injectors ,have spoken to countless bike shop mechanics, bb30 is a burden that makes you not want to ride. 
I've greased the **** out of my skewers from threads all along axel and tried extra clamp force, and done the same with everything many times over. Yes I hate any noise coming from my bikes , there's nothing nicer than powering along and only hearing natural rolling and drive train sounds and your own effort. I've devoted hundreds of hours over the course of 3 years trying all sorts of remedies short of witchcraft.my non bb30 bikes seldom have issues, and when they do they are easily spotted and fixed ,and stay fixed .if poor design were a crime ,cannondale would be hung


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