# So why no SGS long cage RDs for touring/climbing?



## Brownie0629 (Jul 5, 2014)

Inquiring minds need to know. Why doesn't Shimano make road group sets with larger cog cassettes and SGS long cage RDs for touring, climbing and climbing with a load? Seems odd that you have to go to Mountain components. Especially now that there seem to be technical incompatibilities between the newer road and mountain group sets.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Ultegra.
11-32 cassette. 

GS reaches pretty far, 32 is a pretty big cog. 
Combined with a compact 50-34 it's a pretty good touring option.


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## CliffordK (Jun 6, 2014)

I saw some ads for the Shimano Ultegra Di2 6870 Long Cage Rear Derailleur. 
It seems confusing looking at the Ultegra 6800, but I think all they sell is a medium cage derailleurs. They should work with most of the clusters/cassettes (32T???). Can a person simply change out the derailleur cage?

The primary reason for requiring a longer cage is to use a triple crank.

I do find it puzzling that Shimano dropped the triple crank support with the Ultegra line. However, it probably makes sense to some marketing guru somewhere.

One reason might be that they are trying to position the Dura Ace as a premier racing component group, and the Ultegra as a mid-level competitive component set.

They may believe that putting a Dura Ace or Ultegra component group onto a bike that appears to be a Walmart Special cheapens the whole brand, and thus is bad ver advertising. 

Of course, if they're only selling a few thousand triples, then the R&D may also be cost prohibitive.

A third possibility with the long cage derailleurs is that a carbon fiber cage may not work well with an 8" derailleur cage, or at least require significant reinforcements. And, hanging a long CF derailleur cage down near the road, curbs, etc, might be asking for trouble.

I do find the inter-compatibility of indexed shifting to be confusing. Perhaps that was done deliberately. It would be easy enough to make all derailleurs so they require identical amounts of pull to shift, although there may be reasons to make fundamental design changes such as changing the size of various pulleys.

Anyway, the Dura Ace doesn't need to come with the triple and long cage derailleurs. Ultegra. Perhaps a toss-up. 

I would think, however, as one goes down the list, the 105 6800 11 speed should at least be designed with a triple, but I don't see one there either.

I also believe that Shimano (and Campy) are dropping the ball by pretty much ignoring older goup sets. Of course friction shifters will work with just about anything, but it certainly would be frustrating to have a 9 or 10 speed system, and suddenly find all support was dropped, or to find out one is expected to upgrade several components.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

CliffordK said:


> I saw some ads for the Shimano Ultegra Di2 6870 Long Cage Rear Derailleur.
> It seems confusing looking at the Ultegra 6800, but I think all they sell is a medium cage derailleurs. They should work with most of the clusters/cassettes (32T???). Can a person simply change out the derailleur cage?
> 
> The primary reason for requiring a longer cage is to use a triple crank.
> ...


I use a 6870 long cage RD. Or mid cage, whatever you want to call it, mid I guess is appropriate.

Yes, 6800 has the same derailleur that 6870 does, just mechanical. Mid cage, long cage, whatever, what matters is that yes it can get to 32 tooth cogs. 

No, you cannot just change out the derailleur cage, that'll not do anything to increase the size of cog you can get to.

Primary, well, it used to be. There never used to be "real" long cage road rear derailleurs, now there is. The 6870 gs and 6800 gs have different shaped parallelograms and are designed to run bigger cassettes than the ss derailleurs. For 6700, the longer cage was to wrap more chain exclusively, so for triples. But in 6800 the longer cage is a whole new derailleur design made specifically to run a bigger cassette.

The 105 11 Speed is 5800. Ultegra is 6800. And it will not come with a triple.


It used to be that to get better gears for climbing you would need a triple. With a triple you want more chain wrap so therefore a longer cage RD, but one that runs the same cassette.

They've changed the direction and they're not going back. Now what they do is make the cassette bigger. They have compact cranks now that run 34 tooth inner rings and cassettes that run 32 tooth cogs. This eliminates the need for triples in the vast majority of cases. It's much easier for them to make a long cage RD and big cassette than it is to make a whole triple setup. Triples require special shifters, front derailleurs and cranks, that's just too much.


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## Brownie0629 (Jul 5, 2014)

Thanks for the responses. Very informative. It does appear that the newer Ultegra/105 GS RDs might do the trick with up to 32T cog. I recently upgraded the rear cog on my 2006 LeMond Versailles Triple from the original SRAM 12-26T to a SRAM 11-34T. I got the original Ultegra GS RD to work after a fashion but it is not ideal. Couldn't run the ideal length of chain, the guide pulley rides on the 34T cog and the shifting is not as crisp, even on the smaller cogs. Doesn't seem to have a pulley clearance issue the pulley on the 30T cog which is consistent with what others have posted.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

When in doubt... use a 9speed mtb RD (which, to build on your question... what do we do when that selection drys up???). What I don't understand about Shimano is that they have a bunch of touring/commuting oriented stuff (particularly in the revamped LX line) but for the most part only sell it in Europe. 

Between my Shimano-commuter purchases and my Campy stuff on the road bikes... I apparently need to leave the US in order to find anything I want locally.


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