# AWwww-haww--hawwww, poor FC



## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

The jackass that keeps on giving...

_Summing up the situation, Cancellara stated after the race: "If I had stopped for coffee, they would have done the same. They never got off my wheel."_ commentary: lolz! 

_Of course, Hushovd had a good reason not to take a turn in the chase, and so did Ballan, who also had team-mate Manuel Quinziato in front. But 'Spartacus' also had all the reasons to blame them for lost opportunities. "It's really too easy to hide behind their alibis like they are. Of course, I wasn't going to tow them behind me," he added. "It's a pity, because if they had helped in the chase, we would have finished just the three of us and you never know, I could have punctured or had cramps like in Flanders."

Cancellara saved his honour as supreme favourite by finishing second. "Everybody raced against me. The victory was not possible. This second place is like the victory to me. Today, I lost, but the others lost a bit more than me," he concluded._
It's a pity my fellow *competitors* didn't help me...those [email protected] Don't they know who I am?!?? I dont have a real team to support me so I will blame someone else, again.

I lost. But everyone else _really, really_ lost!! 

Hey, Sparticass, whether it's 2nd or 22nd..it ain't first. Stop yer whining. Worst. "Champion". Ever.


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## baker921 (Jul 20, 2007)

If I remember my history correctly the original Spartacus lost out to a better team too.

Spartacus now turned his forces around and brought his entire strength to bear on the legions in a last stand, in which the slaves were routed completely, with the vast majority of them being killed on the battlefield.[40] The eventual fate of Spartacus himself is unknown, as his body was never found, but he is accounted by historians to have perished in battle along with his men.[41] Six thousand survivors of the revolt captured by the legions of Crassus were crucified, lining the Appian Way from Rome to Capua.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartacus

He is well named!


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

I don't understand why some people think a rider can't express an opinion? He was just saying what every analyst, commentator, etc. said. And it was true.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

stevesbike said:


> I don't understand why some people think a rider can't express an opinion? He was just saying what every analyst, commentator, etc. said. And it was true.


everyone else has an invalid alibi? but his holy undertaking and blaming others for his loss is valid, because he was the first loser? that's not opinion. that's baby BS. man up, FC.

edit: sorry he hates, you know, tactics...but that *is* how a race is run (ridden).


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

remembering when...


“I am the only man in the world who can make an attack like the one in Flanders, or in Roubaix in 2010. *Everybody knows that if I’m at 100 percent they have to fasten their seatbelts, like on an aeroplane.”*

I guess Mr. Airplane couldn't quite get the lift he needed for flight? 'Cuz, otherwise, he would've just left those wheelsuckers tied to the earth, or something like that...i guess.

Don't compare yourself a "gladiator" or an airplane would be my advice.

Because maybe, just maybe, when you talk smack before a race...the other people participating might make your ass try and cash that check your mouth wrote the week prior.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

It's kind of normal when you are frustrated to say things after a day like that. I'm not a fan, but the way he motored away from everyone but one in the final kilometers was very impressive. Probably the best effort of the race, and the other favorites didn't have anywhere near the power he displayed.
Nice to see the win go to a worker bee, he must feel great today despite the soreness!


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## mmcycle10 (Oct 7, 2010)

Haters.


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## jtimmer1 (Mar 28, 2009)

Lol, what a troll.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

I think you've got the whining all backwards - if you really want to complain, focus on the lack of stones at Garmin. You put a domestique like van Summeren into an early break to help your team leader when he bridges up. That's a rainbow jersey on the god of thunder - scared to close a 35 second gap with FC to bridge up to the leading group? It worked out with van Summeren getting the win, but not exactly with panache...


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

I'll say it again...A win is a win any way you come about it (other than PED's).

Fabian lost again and is making excuses...once again. The others in the peloton caught on to what he did last year and used their teams against him...that's bike racing at it's "BEST".

The last time I checked cycling...at least at the pro level...was a team sport and not an individual sport. You use your "Team" to try and get a rider on your "Team" the win. Fabian's team wasn't there to support him and they didn't use good "Team" tactics to help him get the win.

The loss is not that of Fabian, but that of Leopard Trek...The win goes to Garmin who rode a tactically smart race from start to finish. Quick Step however...Just bad luck all around.

If Fabian want's to win these races again...he better get a team that can support him and actually help him instead of leaving him on an island and expecting him to do it all himself.

He needs to shut up and take the loss like a man...He still finished 2nd this year. Call it good and move onto the next race.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

I have to admit that it was a bit nauseating this time around. Ballan and Hushovd just sitting on his wheel. I mean, come on, the world champion wasn't interested in racing with 20km to go. It was lame. Yeah a win is a win, but as a fan (particularly of Hushovd) it was a very disappointing race.

It doesn't matter what Fabian had to say. I feel the way I do from watching the race. Some may disagree, but I don't care. It sucks having the strong men in back sipping tea.


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## Snowstorm (Nov 17, 2009)

mmcycle10 said:


> Haters.


+1

I, for one, walked away from watching the race thinking FC just proved he is the strongest rider in the world. He rode the tip of the spear for over an hour with the other "strongest" riders in the world.....that is until he dropped them like a dress on prom night.

I already can't remember who won. But I do remember FC just showed that he is a man among little girls. I am much more impressed by being the strongest rider in the world vs the guy who snook away and won because of tactics. (this is why I roll my eyes when some guy goes crazy celebrating a town line sprint after not pulling at all during the ride)


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## DigitalIbis (Mar 23, 2010)

stevesbike said:


> I think you've got the whining all backwards - if you really want to complain, focus on the lack of stones at Garmin. You put a domestique like van Summeren into an early break to help your team leader when he bridges up. That's a rainbow jersey on the god of thunder - scared to close a 35 second gap with FC to bridge up to the leading group? It worked out with van Summeren getting the win, but not exactly with panache...


I agree.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

Wookiebiker said:


> I'll say it again...A win is a win any way you come about it (other than PED's).
> 
> Fabian lost again and is making excuses...once again. The others in the peloton caught on to what he did last year and used their teams against him...that's bike racing at it's "BEST".
> 
> ...


agree.

He should have shut up after, Summing up the situation, Cancellara stated after the race:_ "If I had stopped for coffee, they would have done the same. They never got off my wheel." _

that would have been cool, really, awesome one liner

But to go on about alibis and BS was too much.

FC is the one who said everyone better fasten their seat belts last week.

Not, every better fasten their seatbelts after they help me do the work my team can't do for me...his move to 2nd was good work. but if he was so strong it is his OWN fault for not making the move sooner. too bad, so sad.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

stevesbike said:


> I think you've got the whining all backwards - if you really want to complain, focus on the lack of stones at Garmin. You put a domestique like van Summeren into an early break to help your team leader when he bridges up. That's a rainbow jersey on the god of thunder - scared to close a 35 second gap with FC to bridge up to the leading group? It worked out with van Summeren getting the win, but not exactly with panache...


"panache" lol
Doubt JV and crew lost much sleep over that last night.


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## bmxhacksaw (Mar 26, 2008)

FC wears the rainbow jersey for the TT right? So we all know that he's the strongest rider. But this was a RR with teams. Teams ride to win. One team won. Deal with it. Cavendish has to deal with the same thing. The only way he can be beat (on field sprint stages) is if the other teams conspire against him. It's what racing is all about. If the strongest man always won it would be boring and I would have no reason to race because I am far from the strongest but using brains and tactics can help level the playing field.


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## Snowstorm (Nov 17, 2009)

bmxhacksaw said:


> FC wears the rainbow jersey for the TT right? So we all know that he's the strongest rider. But this was a RR with teams. Teams ride to win. One team won. Deal with it. Cavendish has to deal with the same thing. The only way he can be beat (on field sprint stages) is if the other teams conspire against him. It's what racing is all about. If the strongest man always won it would be boring and I would have no reason to race because I am far from the strongest but using brains and tactics can help level the playing field.


Completely agree. But FC delivered what he promised. He completely dominated the other favorites. They didn't buckle up.

I guess I really just don't care who wins....and I think the people at Versus agree as the winner received exceedingly little TV time throughout the coverage. I wanted to see FC rip someones legs off. So, for me, he delivered.


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## Swish (Jul 31, 2004)

It's the downside of being the best, ofc he gets frustrated, totally understandable. FC knows darn well it's tactics that did him in. BTW van Summeren deserved a big win, he won't be forgotten as easily as someone stated earlier.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

Swish said:


> It's the downside of being the best, ofc he gets frustrated, totally understandable. FC knows darn well it's tactics that did him in. BTW van Summeren deserved a big win, he won't be forgotten as easily as someone stated earlier.


And FC's tactics were impeccable - unlike Flanders where one can claim he overextended himself and went too early, this time around there was NOTHING he could do to win.

I am still a bit perplexed at Garmin's tactics. I would have thought had they bridged to front group, Thor would have a very decent chance against Cancellara with two teammates in the group. Instead it was a gamble that one of the two Garmin can escape out of a group of 11 or whatever it was. Does this mean their confidence in Thor's sprint is so low, they would rather roll the dice with 2 out of 11 chances? Same goes for BMC and Ballan. 

I mean, it seems they follow the strategy of weaker teams and roll the dice - and they may win one out of 10 or 20 races, which may be fine for something like Saxxo, but BMC and Garmin have clear favorites, why not get them at the front and give them a chance to shine? 

I am happy for Van Summeren, but publicity-wise, a win for Thor in champion jersey would mean 1,000 times more.


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## 88 rex (Mar 18, 2008)

AJL said:


> I have to admit that it was a bit nauseating this time around. Ballan and Hushovd just sitting on his wheel. I mean, come on, the world champion wasn't interested in racing with 20km to go. It was lame. Yeah a win is a win, but as a fan (particularly of Hushovd) it was a very disappointing race.


Just curious why you think Hushovd should have helped chase down his own guy. That seems like pretty poor tactics to me. Leopard-Trek put all their marbles in one basket. Garmin was set-up for multiple scenarios and it worked well for them.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

jeez give van summeren some credit, it's not like he was a completely unknown rider 2 days ago. 



55x11 said:


> And FC's tactics were impeccable - unlike Flanders where one can claim he overextended himself and went too early, this time around there was NOTHING he could do to win.
> 
> I am still a bit perplexed at Garmin's tactics. I would have thought had they bridged to front group, Thor would have a very decent chance against Cancellara with two teammates in the group. Instead it was a gamble that one of the two Garmin can escape out of a group of 11 or whatever it was. Does this mean their confidence in Thor's sprint is so low, they would rather roll the dice with 2 out of 11 chances? Same goes for BMC and Ballan.
> 
> ...


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

JohnHenry said:


> remembering when...
> 
> 
> “I am the only man in the world who can make an attack like the one in Flanders, or in Roubaix in 2010. *Everybody knows that if I’m at 100 percent they have to fasten their seatbelts, like on an aeroplane.”*
> ...


This.


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

Umm. If I reacall JVS was in that break for most of the freaking race. FC tried to bridge the gap and couldn't. Thor and Ballan had no reason to help him. Maybe he is the strongest. But he needs a team to help him; he ain't immortal.


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

stevesbike said:


> I think you've got the whining all backwards - if you really want to complain, focus on the lack of stones at Garmin. You put a domestique like van Summeren into an early break to help your team leader when he bridges up. That's a rainbow jersey on the god of thunder - scared to close a 35 second gap with FC to bridge up to the leading group? It worked out with van Summeren getting the win, but not exactly with panache...


I agree. Everyone, even the misnamed "God of Thunder," must be so intimidated by FC.


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## asciibaron (Aug 11, 2006)

FC is the new Lance Armstrong of hater rage, wow. FC proved himself the strongest rider of the day. if he had another 1.5K he would have bested JVS. it was a remarkable ride and his comment regarding stopping was very true - he sat up, they sat up, he attacked, they followed, he eased up, they relaxed, he went, they stumbled. 

the FC haters gonna hate.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Here's the part I don't get, because the cameras didn't cover this part: Cancellara WAS able to drop Thor and Ballan; he arrived at the velodrome without them on his wheel.

Ballan, apparently had a crash in the last 15k, so that explains him. But how did Thor get gapped? 

Anyway, chapeau to JVS for a helluva ride, and to FC also for closing a minute+ gap in the last 15k to almost catch the winner.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

asciibaron said:


> FC is the new Lance Armstrong of hater rage, wow. FC proved himself the strongest rider of the day. if he had another 1.5K he would have bested JVS. it was a remarkable ride and his comment regarding stopping was very true - he sat up, they sat up, he attacked, they followed, he eased up, they relaxed, he went, they stumbled.
> 
> the FC haters gonna hate.


FC was the strongest, if only the race were a little bit longer


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

asciibaron said:


> FC turned up the pain.


shoulda done that before. then he wouldn't wetting himself with tears.


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## asciibaron (Aug 11, 2006)

Creakyknees said:


> But how did Thor get gapped?


FC turned up the pain.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

asciibaron said:


> FC is the new Lance Armstrong of hater rage, wow. FC proved himself the strongest rider of the day. if he had another 1.5K he would have bested JVS. it was a remarkable ride and his comment regarding stopping was very true - he sat up, they sat up, he attacked, they followed, he eased up, they relaxed, he went, they stumbled.
> 
> the FC haters gonna hate.



Not true...I love watching FC race and am far from a hater...however, his comments show jealousy over the fact that he doesn't have a team to help him and others can use the help of their team to beat him.

He's the best Time Trialist in the world and everybody knows it. However, road racing is different and until he comes to terms with that he will continue to lose races because other teams are going to wheel suck off of him after last years performance.

As has been said a MILLION times...It's often not the strongest rider in the race that wins, but the smartest. Sure he's the strongest, but he's showing on a continual basis this year he is far from the smartest...that and he has little if any team support, which sucks for him considering cycling at that level is a "TEAM" sport.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

and BTW I bet Thor's not a happy camper either... you know he wanted to race for real but was a good team player.


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## asciibaron (Aug 11, 2006)

JohnHenry said:


> FC was the strongest, if only the race were a little bit longer


if it was a little longer or FC had jumped sooner, the 19 second gap would have been much narrower for sure. you do realize that part of the game is the media comments - FC is having fun with the media. he is a talented rider and his podium placings 3 weeks in a row - who else was shared a podium with him?

do you dislike him because he is successful?


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

JohnHenry said:


> The jackass that keeps on giving...
> 
> _Summing up the situation, Cancellara stated after the race: "If I had stopped for coffee, they would have done the same. They never got off my wheel."_ commentary: lolz!
> 
> ...


You should compete with Fabian in a whining and moaning contest because you might beat him.


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## bmxhacksaw (Mar 26, 2008)

Oh, and you all know that Summeren's back tire was flat for the last 5k right? Stud.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

asciibaron said:


> if it was a little longer or FC had jumped sonner, the 19 second gap would have been much narrower for sure. you do realize that part of the game is the media comments - FC is having fun with the media. he is a talented rider and his podium placings 3 weeks in a row - who else was shared a podium with him?
> 
> do you dislike him because he is successful?


"if"

but the race wasn't longer; he didnt' win. 

FC is a massive talent.

But his boo-hoo'ing after telling the cycling world to fasten their seatbelts last week is too much.

He over promised and under delivered the results speak for themselves.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

ghost6 said:


> You should compete with Fabian in a whining and moaning contest because you might beat him.


derp.

sorry to offend you.


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

JohnHenry said:


> derp.
> 
> sorry to offend you.


Apparently, English is not your mother's tongue.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

ghost6 said:


> Apparently, English is not your mother's tongue.


apparently,


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

JohnHenry said:


> apparently,


Apparently, that is a pic of Fabian Cancellara holding you in the palm of his hand. You're a cute little thing to whine and moan so much.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

IMHO a wheelsucker is not deserving the rainbow stripes

moreover a wheelsucker that last year on the same race also sit on wheels instead of chasing.

god of thunder my [email protected]@


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

Salsa_Lover said:


> IMHO a wheelsucker is not deserving the rainbow stripes
> 
> moreover a wheelsucker that last year on the same race also sit on wheels instead of chasing.
> 
> god of thunder my [email protected]@


:thumbsup:

God of Wheelsucking!


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

ghost6 said:


> Apparently, that is a pic of Fabian Cancellara holding you in the palm of his hand. You're a cute little thing to whine and moan so much.


I appreciate your attempt at personalization but.....whatev's :ciappa:


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Salsa_Lover said:


> IMHO a wheelsucker is not deserving the rainbow stripes
> 
> moreover a wheelsucker that last year on the same race also sit on wheels instead of chasing.
> 
> god of thunder my [email protected]@


Go back and read quotes from other racers about Thor at the World Championships. Dude was closing the gaps to Evans, Gilbert &co.by himself the last three laps. I bet amoungst the racers Thor is much more liked than Euro trash Fabian.


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## asciibaron (Aug 11, 2006)

JohnHenry said:


> but the race wasn't longer; he didnt' win.


he came in second, his third podium finish in 3 races in three weeks - that's a 1, 3, and 2 place finish. how did you do?


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

asciibaron said:


> he came in second, his third podium finish in 3 races in three weeks - that's a 1, 3, and 2 place finish. how did you do?


i came in 1st every one of the past 3 weekends...:thumbsup: 
my daughter's birthday, hanging out with friends, took my family to an amusement park, watched some cool bike racing on the TV and rode my bikes,

Thanks for asking.


or was i supposed to get get 'huffy'?


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

88 rex said:


> Just curious why you think Hushovd should have helped chase down his own guy. That seems like pretty poor tactics to me. Leopard-Trek put all their marbles in one basket. Garmin was set-up for multiple scenarios and it worked well for them.


Because I'd like to see the World Road Champion *race to win*! Good tactics - yes, but no so fun for me as a fan. At RVV and PR I like to see the favorites race to win - showing that they are the hard men of the cobbles.


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

ghost6 said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> God of Wheelsucking!


Over the years I have seen two sides of Thor.

One side that I liked very much, represented by 2009 TdF, in the green, going out alone over mountainous terrain to get the necessary points to keep the points jersey over Cavendish.

The other side that I disliked quite a bit, is last year's Paris-Roubaix, where Cancellara had gone off and Thor rode on the wheel of his team mate Roger Hammond, 'till he couldn't pull any more. Then when Roger was left behind, Flecha did most of the work while Thor just outsprinted him at the line. I remember Flecha just applauding Thor sarcastically when he sprinted for 2nd.
What about this year? Like I said in another thread, this race is Thor's dream yet he did nothing to win it. There was one opportunity for him to attack Cancellara. The gap to the leaders was down to 20sec and Van Summeren hadn't gone solo yet and Fabian looked spent. Thor just stood on his wheel and sat up with him. (To be fair maybe the Garmin team car was shouting, "do nothing" in Thor's ear).


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## jhamlin38 (Oct 29, 2005)

Thor and Cancellara are both fantastic. Being a wheel sucker is part of the game. Is cavendish a wheel sucker for not putting in any effort DURING the race, until the last 200-400meters? No.
Van Summeren won because Thor didn't bridge to the lead group. That, is a pretty good reason to NOT ride up to the group. It will always be that way in the classics.
Cancellara shouldn't have opened his mouth. But I don't mind a bit of bravado headed up to a classic. Cycling needs some attitude and edge to it, other than PED scandals.
Leopard is the team that I think failed more than anything. Had there been a teamate in the break, he wouldn't have pulled someone up to the break. That's how O'grady won. Its a shame there are haters of Thor and Cancellara here.


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## locobaylor (Mar 11, 2008)

Jens Voigt is a pansy for not pulling Cancellara to the finish line to win.


Have fun.


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## tinkerbeast (Jul 24, 2009)

AJL said:


> I have to admit that it was a bit nauseating this time around. Ballan and Hushovd just sitting on his wheel. I mean, come on, the world champion wasn't interested in racing with 20km to go. It was lame. Yeah a win is a win, but as a fan (particularly of Hushovd) it was a very disappointing race.
> 
> It doesn't matter what Fabian had to say. I feel the way I do from watching the race. Some may disagree, but I don't care. It sucks having the strong men in back sipping tea.


Hushovd is like a super pozatto... thats what he has always done *shrugs*... see PR 2010 and TdF stage 3 more for examples... dont know why he's overhyped

FC certainly needs to turn down his mouth but also his legs. the guy doesn't seem to have learnt from the 2009 WC and shows his cards wayyy to soon. I mean whats the point in utterly dominating E3? saying that's his style only speaks volumes about the guys ego. Its sad because he is really strong and could definitely get some records if he tackled them sensibly.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

FC was great, G-C was great. 

Outnumbering very often wins.


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

This is a TEAM FRIGGIN SPORT. If Thor had pulled FC up to his own teamate he would have jeapardized Garmin's TEAM win. Get it?


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Kram said:


> This is a TEAM FRIGGIN SPORT. If Thor had pulled FC up to his own teamate he would have jeapardized Garmin's TEAM win. Get it?


It's a foreign concept to some people...especially those that don't race much :mad2:


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Wookiebiker said:


> It's a foreign concept to some people...especially those that don't race much :mad2:



I've learned team tactics and strategy just by reading the P-R threads  .

Very interesting; the world of pro cycle racing.


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## Special Eyes (Feb 2, 2011)

What a stupid thread!

It was a fine race. A guy finishes 19 seconds late after over six hours. To me there are many winners, and he is one. Clearly, very many riders spent more effort keeping one person from winning than trying to win themselves. Perhaps that's strategy nowadays, but Fabian could have won if he anticipated all the resistance shown against him. 

Now, please shut up and ride!


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

Wookiebiker said:


> It's a foreign concept to some people...especially those that don't race much :mad2:


Esp Americans, and yes, I am one...


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## foofighter (Dec 19, 2008)

i'm sure thor wanted to race FC but JV probably told him no dont bridge just suck wheel so he did what his new boss told him to do.

FC is a great rider but i get the feeling he can take on everyone and most of the time he can the rest of the time (flanders/PR) he gets ganged up on by other teams that work against him at his own strength. 

I agree with others though, his team should have been there to help him bridge that gap you can tell he was pissed when he sat up and had some choice words to the Garmin team car.


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## 196nautique (Sep 23, 2005)

Wow, some of you guys really make me wonder...

I would much prefer FC to speak how he really feels, makes it far more interesting. And give him a break, English obviously isn't his native language. He could be like 99% of the pro athletes that spew mindless drivel and cliches. I love reading his quotes, and he has earned the right to say what he wants, even if I think it sounds like sour grapes at times.

Garmin. For the first time ever, I saw them control a race. They did great! Garmin had no stones. WTF???? Did you watch the same race as me? Garmin absolutely killed it. Not sure if it was luck or skill, but it was quite a show.

Thor. He did what he should have done, right up until he got dropped. I like the guy and was rooting for him. BUT, when FC dropped the hammer, Thor disappeared. Now he says he had the legs to win? I am sure he had good legs, but from a tactical standpoint, why did he stop wheelsucking? He didn't have the legs to follow FC. There was a good chance that FC would catch JVS, and in that case Thor should have been there to save the day for Garmin. But he couldn't keep on the wheel.

If FC was able to win, and it was a lot closer than I thought it would be, Thor and Garmin would have looked like chumps! 

Garmin lived up to the hype for once.

And IMHO, the reason FC lost has nothing to do with his bike, QS's problems, or being marked. His problem was his lack of help from his team. He appeared to be riding unattached. I think with 100k to go I briefly saw one other Leopard rider, but I blinked and FC was alone.


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## asciibaron (Aug 11, 2006)

JohnHenry said:


> or was i supposed to get get 'huffy'?


it's easy to talk smack. when is your pro career gonna start? wait, family is more important yadda yadda yadda. my career never took off, i simply didn't have it but can recognize those that do and those that own them.


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

Well, to me, Thor did the most selfless ride in the race. Dude really wants to win PR AND he's running out of chances. I'm sure *the plan* was to have a man (JVS) in the break, have Fabs turn himself inside out and drag Thor up to the group, then have Thor beat them in a sprint. Just didn't work out that way. If Thor had been thinking of only himself, he would have helped FC bridge the gap, but he didn't for the team. That is a true professional.


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## asciibaron (Aug 11, 2006)

Wookiebiker said:


> It's a foreign concept to some people...especially those that don't race much :mad2:


 there are dynamics that we'll never know about going on because we only saw the race thru the eyes of a TV director, a French one at that. the images presented tell a story, not just the facts of the race.

we did not see the battle of Thor and FC in the last kilos, just JVS running into town. we did not hear the commands from the team managers. we did not feel what the riders were feeling. arm chairing Monday morning is easy. 

i raced and worked hard to support my team. we did not have the luxury of radio'd details of the race, we had to sort it all on the fly with limited knowledge of what was going on ahead and behind. we simply can talk smack about the effort or tactics used, but unless you were with Thor and saw if he was really able to push to the front, you really can't say. he might have been on the edge and ready to pop like Boonen and eased off to recover. the race could have gone 20 different ways. we saw one very interesting and unexpected finish. 

i now see that finishing 19 seconds back after 6 hours, a puncture, and everyone marking you is a horrible result. FC is a cry baby for that lame effort


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## asciibaron (Aug 11, 2006)

Kram said:


> If Thor had been thinking of only himself, he would have helped FC bridge the gap, but he didn't for the team. That is a true professional.


i love how everyone applies their own belief to what happened. Thor didn't have the legs so he put in a good show. then FC turn up the pain and spit Thor out the back. 19 seconds is damn close, what happened to Thor - FC nearly made Garmin look like fools.

and yes, Leopard needs to rethink their classics game.


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## nathanbal (Feb 23, 2009)

196nautique said:


> BUT, when FC dropped the hammer, Thor disappeared. Now he says he had the legs to win? I am sure he had good legs, but from a tactical standpoint, why did he stop wheelsucking? He didn't have the legs to follow FC. There was a good chance that FC would catch JVS, and in that case Thor should have been there to save the day for Garmin. But he couldn't keep on the wheel.


:thumbsup: 

When Balan and Thor were sitting in behind FC, they were 30sec behind the main bunch. Garmin had two riders up ahead in a group of around 10'ish. Whilst it worked out in the end for Garmin, I'm still a little bemused that they would put their money on JVS in a bunch of 10 (cant recall the other Garmin rider but he was pretty spent at this point in time) vs Thor and JVS in the bunch. Thor is never going to win PR if he doesn't want to take on the best riders... Being in the front bunch with a team mate with 20km to go in my mind, at that point of the race, would have been the perfect set up for both Thor and the team. Same with Balan; he also had a team mate in the front group. Why not at least appear to work with FC, to get up to the front? Wouldnt having Ballan up there be a good thing for BMC?


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

In 10 years I won't remember who won this race. But I will remember Cancellara fighting 100-1 odds and nearly winning, even though he stopped along the Arenberg to get a kitty out of a tree, change a tire on some old woman's Citroen, and deflower three different virgins. And not all in the same hay loft, either!

The mind is a wonderful thing!


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## 88 rex (Mar 18, 2008)

asciibaron said:


> there are dynamics that we'll never know about going on because we only saw the race thru the eyes of a TV director, a French one at that. the images presented tell a story, not just the facts of the race.
> 
> we did not see the battle of Thor and FC in the last kilos, just JVS running into town. we did not hear the commands from the team managers. we did not feel what the riders were feeling. arm chairing Monday morning is easy.
> 
> ...


Huh? The race was on TV. It was fairly clear what was happening. We are all fans and fans armchair on Monday morning. IMO, Thor didn't even attempt to match FC's final attack, and I don't think it was the legs. He just let him go since his guy had it in the bag already. You can see it in the video, he doesn't even chase at all. All afternoon he chased and PULLED, but once it was a given that JVS was going to win Thor shuts it down. Just my opinion.


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## Sylint (Jul 27, 2009)

asciibaron said:


> *i love how everyone applies their own belief to what happened. Thor didn't have the legs so he put in a good show. then FC turn up the pain and spit Thor out the back. 19 seconds is damn close, what happened to Thor - FC nearly made Garmin look like fools.*
> 
> and yes, Leopard needs to rethink their classics game.


I don't really disagree with you at the end with regards to Thor's legs, but you are doing the same thing here that you are chastizing others for.

You BELIEVE Thor's legs were shot. This is something there is no way you'll ever know, and will remain a belief.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

asciibaron said:


> it's easy to talk smack. when is your pro career gonna start? wait, family is more important yadda yadda yadda. my career never took off, i simply didn't have it but can recognize those that do and those that own them.


sorry i couldnt get "personally"upset or defensive for you.....dawg. :ciappa:


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

JohnHemlock said:


> In 10 years I won't remember who won this race. But I will remember Cancellara fighting 100-1 odds and nearly winning, even though he stopped along the Arenberg to get a kitty out of a tree, change a tire on some old woman's Citroen, and deflower three different virgins. And not all in the same hay loft, either!
> 
> The mind is a wonderful thing!


virile!


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Team Ocelot put all their marbles in one basket? More like they only had one marble. Fabian better not try pulling his "Patron of the Peloton" act again like he did at last year's Tour. He seems to have made himself very unpopular with his fellow racers.
Good on Van Summeren for the win, he's been 8th and 5th already. But Sunday was more about other racers losing it than him winning it. No way did Garmin send him up the road as anything but a leadout for Thor. But once he got away from the others in his group, he was a good bet for the win.

I'm embarrassed to admit this, but I was in a bike shop today and almost bought an R3 on impulse.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> I'm embarrassed to admit this, but I was in a bike shop today and almost bought an R3 on impulse.


I hate to admit this, but I wish I could afford to buy an R3 on impulse :wink:


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Team Ocelot put all their marbles in one basket? More like they only had one marble. Fabian better not try pulling his "Patron of the Peloton" act again like he did at last year's Tour. He seems to have made himself very unpopular with his fellow racers.
> Good on Van Summeren for the win, he's been 8th and 5th already. But Sunday was more about other racers losing it than him winning it. No way did Garmin send him up the road as anything but a leadout for Thor. But once he got away from the others in his group, he was a good bet for the win.
> 
> I'm embarrassed to admit this, but I was in a bike shop today and almost bought an R3 on impulse.


trek wishes it coul get a p-r on more than impulse.

specialized - 3
cervelo - 3
trek - 0

prolly shouldn't talk about tdf's tho', lol.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

tinkerbeast said:


> Hushovd is like a super pozatto... thats what he has always done *shrugs*... see PR 2010 and TdF stage 3 more for examples... dont know why he's overhyped
> 
> FC certainly needs to turn down his mouth but also his legs. the guy doesn't seem to have learnt from the 2009 WC and shows his cards wayyy to soon. I mean whats the point in utterly dominating E3? saying that's his style only speaks volumes about the guys ego. Its sad because he is really strong and could definitely get some records if he tackled them sensibly.


I don't completely disagree with everything you say, but how would you race "sensibly" if you were FC? And how would losing E3 on purpose help Cancellara exactly? It's not like people would forget who he was and his previous record just because of one unsuccessful race. If that were true, he wouldn't be marked by Hushovd and Ballan after what happened in Flanders.


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## TerminatorX91 (Mar 27, 2011)

stevesbike said:


> I think you've got the whining all backwards - if you really want to complain, focus on the lack of stones at Garmin. You put a domestique like van Summeren into an early break to help your team leader when he bridges up. That's a rainbow jersey on the god of thunder - scared to close a 35 second gap with FC to bridge up to the leading group? It worked out with van Summeren getting the win, but not exactly with panache...




Looked a fair and square win to me.

What do you call a team or a racer who can't understand or accept the fact that the way you win can't always be pretty?


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## TerminatorX91 (Mar 27, 2011)

What would Eddy Merckx do?


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

Creakyknees said:


> Here's the part I don't get, because the cameras didn't cover this part: Cancellara WAS able to drop Thor and Ballan; he arrived at the velodrome without them on his wheel.
> 
> Ballan, apparently had a crash in the last 15k, so that explains him. But how did Thor get gapped?
> 
> Anyway, chapeau to JVS for a helluva ride, and to FC also for closing a minute+ gap in the last 15k to almost catch the winner.


Thor did get gapped, with about 3k to go. Looks like Flecha went to follow, Thor was behind him, then Flecha boxed him in on the side of the road. Thor was stuck at that point.


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

Kram said:


> Well, to me, Thor did the most selfless ride in the race. Dude really wants to win PR AND he's running out of chances. I'm sure *the plan* was to have a man (JVS) in the break, have Fabs turn himself inside out and drag Thor up to the group, then have Thor beat them in a sprint. Just didn't work out that way. If Thor had been thinking of only himself, he would have helped FC bridge the gap, but he didn't for the team. That is a true professional.



Agreed. Thor chasing would have been Vino stupid. It would have made no sense whatsoever.

I think Fabian could have won the race if he hadn't stopped chasing. Given that he had a 19 sec gap between him and Summy at the end you really have to wonder.

In order to stalemate a guy like Cance, you need a guy like Thor or Boonen on his wheel.


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## makeitso (Sep 20, 2008)

Kram said:


> Well, to me, Thor did the most selfless ride in the race. Dude really wants to win PR AND he's running out of chances. I'm sure *the plan* was to have a man (JVS) in the break, have Fabs turn himself inside out and drag Thor up to the group, then have Thor beat them in a sprint. Just didn't work out that way. If Thor had been thinking of only himself, he would have helped FC bridge the gap, but he didn't for the team. That is a true professional.


So Thor sprinting (and losing) for 6th place means he had the legs? If he seriously wanted to 'win' wouldn't that mean he would minimally cover Cancellara's moves? He was dropped like a bad habit after doing no work all day if you think he was boxed in, you're just trying to find excuses. 

The bottom line is the strongest rider doesn't always win. Cancellara was obviously the strongest rider of the day. Garmin played the card of having 2 in the front group and felt their odds were stronger with their front 2 vs having a front 3 including Thor but against Cancellara and Ballan. Unfortunately every other team w/ a favorite played the same card as well thus no one worked w/ Cancellara at all. I don't really recall any team having a rider in the peloton put a rider in the front to chase down the lead group. Garmin had a rider up there but his role was just to protect Hushov and in turn whenever a Garmin rider was in front the gap went up. The rest of the work was done by Cancellara. 

The bottom line is Leopard-Trek really needs a strong classics rider who can ride in the peloton and make contributions near the end. It does no good to your leader when the only other person of your team who finishes is 14 min back and goes for the finishers medal.


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## captain stubbing (Mar 30, 2011)

Kram said:


> Well, to me, Thor did the most selfless ride in the race. Dude really wants to win PR AND he's running out of chances. I'm sure *the plan* was to have a man (JVS) in the break, have Fabs turn himself inside out and drag Thor up to the group, then have Thor beat them in a sprint. Just didn't work out that way. If Thor had been thinking of only himself, he would have helped FC bridge the gap, but he didn't for the team. That is a true professional.


this makes me laugh, didn't u see how pissed ballan and hushovd were when FC stopped....ballan was pleading for him to get going again! okay, so then why did garmin then put another rider on the front to help the FC, Hushovd, Ballan group chase down the breakaway??

jvs was one of what a dozen in the breakaway, so he was hardly guaranteed a podium place.....yet in hushovd and ballan worked with FC just a bit, they would almost of certainly finished 1-2-3.


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## asciibaron (Aug 11, 2006)

Sylint said:


> I don't really disagree with you at the end with regards to Thor's legs, but you are doing the same thing here that you are chastizing others for.


you must be one of the smart ones


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## asciibaron (Aug 11, 2006)

JohnHenry said:


> sorry i couldnt get "personally"upset or defensive for you.....dawg.


yawn. i'm not black, don't call me dawg, douche.


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## asciibaron (Aug 11, 2006)

JohnHenry said:


> trek wishes it coul get a p-r on more than impulse.
> 
> specialized - 3
> cervelo - 3
> trek - 0



there have only been 6 Paris Roubaix's? interesting.


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## asciibaron (Aug 11, 2006)

88 rex said:


> Huh? The race was on TV. It was fairly clear what was happening.


you saw every detail of every group and rider at all times, really? that's some kick ass film crew. you saw the narrative of the director. the cuts, the camera movements, all at the direction of a single person. you saw the race thru the eyes of the director. the final few kilos were of JVS and you did not see FC enter the velodrome. was anyone with him? where did Thor get dropped - was it on TV.

hint, there is another thread in here with the video, go back and watch it.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

asciibaron said:


> yawn. i'm not black, don't call me dawg, douche.


honestly.
that's not very nice.

You, somehow, have tried to make the discussion about me. It's not. So, maybe not escalate from me calling you "dawg" (didnt realize it was only for them there colored folks?) and the fun of the "ciappa" smiley to a "douche". 

It's a discussion about a race. Chill a little, mate.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

asciibaron said:


> there have only been 6 Paris Roubaix's? interesting.


almost forgot I could put you on ignore. glad I just remembered.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Moderators Note*



asciibaron said:


> yawn. i'm not black, don't call me dawg, douche.


Tone it down please, any further namecalling/insults with result in appropriate measures.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

Coolhand said:


> Tone it down please, any further namecalling/insults with result in appropriate measures.


thanks for clarifying.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

JohnHenry said:


> "panache" lol
> Doubt JV and crew lost much sleep over that last night.


it worked out for JV and Garmin, but there is such a thing as panache in racing - it often gets lost on American fans, but knowledgeable race people understand it. L'Equipe gave Hushovd a 1/10 rating for his race. 

from Velonews:

Hushovd honored the unwritten code of not attacking a teammate up the road, something that lesser riders might not have done, but L’Equipe — the respected French sports daily — didn’t quite see it that way. In Monday’s edition, the paper gave Hushovd a one-star rating out of 10, writing: “Hushovd didn’t respect the rainbow jersey. He wanted to play hide-and-seek with Cancellara. Luckily for him, Van Summeren (won). He earns one point. One.”


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

stevesbike said:


> it worked out for JV and Garmin, but there is such a thing as panache in racing - it often gets lost on American fans, but knowledgeable race people understand it. L'Equipe gave Hushovd a 1/10 rating for his race.
> 
> from Velonews:
> 
> Hushovd honored the unwritten code of not attacking a teammate up the road, something that lesser riders might not have done, but L’Equipe — the respected French sports daily — didn’t quite see it that way. In Monday’s edition, the paper gave Hushovd a one-star rating out of 10, writing: “Hushovd didn’t respect the rainbow jersey. He wanted to play hide-and-seek with Cancellara. Luckily for him, Van Summeren (won). He earns one point. One.”


i am willing to bet Thor could care less, given the team win.

edit: i understand the "panache" thing so easily lost on these simple-minded Americans, lol. But a win is a win for the individual, the team and their sponsors.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

stevesbike said:


> it worked out for JV and Garmin, but there is such a thing as panache in racing - it often gets lost on American fans, but knowledgeable race people understand it. L'Equipe gave Hushovd a 1/10 rating for his race.
> 
> from Velonews:
> 
> Hushovd honored the unwritten code of not attacking a teammate up the road, something that lesser riders might not have done, but L’Equipe — the respected French sports daily — didn’t quite see it that way. In Monday’s edition, the paper gave Hushovd a one-star rating out of 10, writing: “Hushovd didn’t respect the rainbow jersey. He wanted to play hide-and-seek with Cancellara. Luckily for him, Van Summeren (won). He earns one point. One.”



I said it yesterday, albeit with more panache 



Salsa_Lover said:


> IMHO a wheelsucker is not deserving the rainbow stripes
> 
> moreover a wheelsucker that last year on the same race also sit on wheels instead of chasing.
> 
> god of thunder my [email protected]@


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*yes one that had probably*



baker921 said:


> If I remember my history correctly the original Spartacus lost out to a better team too.
> 
> Spartacus now turned his forces around and brought his entire strength to bear on the legions in a last stand, in which the slaves were routed completely, with the vast majority of them being killed on the battlefield.[40] The eventual fate of Spartacus himself is unknown, as his body was never found, but he is accounted by historians to have perished in battle along with his men.[41] Six thousand survivors of the revolt captured by the legions of Crassus were crucified, lining the Appian Way from Rome to Capua.
> 
> ...


individuals with inferior skills but better team strategy


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*They came around a corner*



SilasCL said:


> Thor did get gapped, with about 3k to go. Looks like Flecha went to follow, Thor was behind him, then Flecha boxed him in on the side of the road. Thor was stuck at that point.


and FC jumped
Flecha did his usual "I took 10 hard pedal strokes, somebody else take a turn" and backed off. By then FC had a 7 meter gap and it was all she wrote

In all honesty I think FC waited for Flecha to be on or near the front to make that jump because those results could be predicted

Fabian caught the 1st chase group and rode by. 2 of the 3 saw him coming and were already sprinting before he caught them and hopped his wheel.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

JohnHenry said:


> i am willing to bet Thor could care less, given the team win.
> 
> edit: i understand the "panache" thing so easily lost on these simple-minded Americans, lol. But a win is a win for the individual, the team and their sponsors.


well he's also a guy who tries to win the green jersey by cashing in on intermediate sprint points...


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*you don't drag*



den bakker said:


> jeez give van summeren some credit, it's not like he was a completely unknown rider 2 days ago.


the race favorite to the front while you have a rider up there (JVS) who was clearly reporting he was feeling great. Vaughters says Johann was asking for a green light to attack and he was telling him to wait. 

Had Thor helped FC up to the front FC may have dumped them just like he dumped them to bridge up to 2nd place but it would have been for the win.

Garmin got the win = Garmin played it right
pretty simple


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

atpjunkie said:


> the race favorite to the front while you have a rider up there (JVS) who was clearly reporting he was feeling great. Vaughters says Johann was asking for a green light to attack and he was telling him to wait.
> 
> Had Thor helped FC up to the front FC may have dumped them just like he dumped them to bridge up to 2nd place but it would have been for the win.
> 
> ...


everything is simple in retrospect - JV almost never makes the right call during a race, but got lucky with this one. They would have looked really stupid if FC had caught van Summeren after all that negative racing...


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Thor has to honestly*



Creakyknees said:


> and BTW I bet Thor's not a happy camper either... you know he wanted to race for real but was a good team player.


face the fact that when Fabian went he couldn't counter

he would not have won in his group, FC proved that


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

stevesbike said:


> well he's also a guy who tries to win the green jersey by cashing in on intermediate sprint points...


I dont recall him talking loads of smack how he would take P-R by storm, fail and then blame others for the failure, either.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Garmin-Cervelo's plan A was for Fabian to tow Thor all the way to the finish, and for Thor to win the sprint. Wheel-sucking followed by a sprint was the only way for Thor to beat Cancellera. It was as much as Thor could do to follow Cancellera's wheel when the hammer was down, and if Thor attacked at any point Fabian would just wait for him to red-line then raise it a couple of notches and blow him away. So for this to work they needed a man in the break, and that was the plan B and that worked out when plan A faltered. Great strategy and execution.

Fabian clearly got fed up over the wheel-sucking situation, threw his toys out of the pram and stopped pulling. He didn't have the super-human strength to get a decisive gap over Thor and the other wheel-suckers on Sunday, and if he had kept chasing he would have lost in the sprint. So sitting up and forcing some kind of reaction from the others was a reasonable thing to do. Garmin Cervelo had to do some work to keep the gap under control in case it didn't work out for Van Summeren. It also sounds like FC was talked into the final effort by Nygard. He was probably charged with anger and wanted to show what he could do, though the win was already out of the question. With hindsight if Cancellera had made this blistering attack just after coming off the sector 2 set of cobbles, he might just have had enough time to pull it off.

Again, an excellent race, great tactics, suspense and another surprise winner. What's not to like?


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

I think FC just miss-timed his finishing effort (by what...20 seconds?) When he sat up, stopping his lone-chase of the leaders...I was thinking "Ahh, good move, C-man! You pull Thor up there with you, after all these miles of him sitting on you, and he will pip you in a sprint....so good idea to 'call his bluff'" 

It's tough for a 'marked' rider when everyone else in the race is mainly concentrating on not letting "you" go. The cobble races seem to also have a big element of luck and circumstance involved. Example: Boonen.

It was pretty cool to watch FC recover a bit, then go again. riding away from his 'trailers" alone. If he'd just got that final effort on a few seconds earlier, he may have caught the winner before the line.

I bet Thor was real glad how this played out. It certainly looked like he wasn't up to racing against FC rider to rider. In the end after all those miles and hours on his wheel, Thor couldn't hold FC's draft to the finish..I don't think Thor was just saying..."There! We won that race...me and Jonathon Vaughters" I'd bet he really wanted to beat FC to the line..being world champion and all..

I bet Vaughters was all..."Lookit Me!...My team won! Mine!..Me!..My team..." 

Excellent racing to spectate.


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## asciibaron (Aug 11, 2006)

JohnHenry said:


> honestly.
> that's not very nice.
> 
> You, somehow, have tried to make the discussion about me. It's not.


you can not do a 1/10th of what FC has done - yet you talk down about his accomplishment as if it were nothing. it is about you, that's the point of your first post - everyone look at how smart i am... you slag on one of the best cyclist today as if you were one of his peers. you are not. 

it was a bike race you watched on TV while riding your couch. get over yourself.


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## asciibaron (Aug 11, 2006)

JohnHenry said:


> almost forgot I could put you on ignore. glad I just remembered.


reminds me of a child that puts his fingers in his ears when he doesn't like what he hears. adults at least allow others to speak. but i can see you know it all already and i can teach you nothing.

good day sir. i said good day. :Yawn:


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

this flame war needs more fuel: 

how would this race have played out differently without radios?


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## asciibaron (Aug 11, 2006)

Creakyknees said:


> how would this race have played out differently without radios?


my wife hates radios in racing. her comment was that the races would be slower and you'd see far more tactical moves from groups of team mates. i just gave her the "deer in headlights" look because she does not care about bike racing. 

i think Thor would have sucked FC's wheel all the way to try for a sprint at the end.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

I don't understand a lot of comments in this thread.

Why in God's name would Thor have chased? Whether or not he was a race favorite, he had a man up the road and that man won Paris Roubaix. A week ago people were slamming race favorite Tom Boonen for chasing and towing Cancellara while he had a man up the road. Thor didn't do that and his team won Paris Roubaix. 

Fabian can "if" all he wants. What he is essentially saying is that he is pissed off that other teams didn't help him win the race. "If my opponents had helped me out then I would have won." People are saying that he gave the most impressive performance of the race and that he would have won if things had been different. That doesn't make sense. The conditions were what they were and someone else won. "If Paris Roubaix had been a TT, Cancellara would have won. He was clearly the strongest in the race." One could just as well complain that Cancellara didn't win on Ventoux and say that if it had been flat he would have won.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

asciibaron said:


> the final few kilos were of JVS and you did not see FC enter the velodrome. was anyone with him? where did Thor get dropped - was it on TV


What were you watching it on? Fromsport showed that.


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## asciibaron (Aug 11, 2006)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> What were you watching it on? Fromsport showed that.


it showed FC entering the velodrome, not finishing his lap, really? the feed is the same for everyone - from 2.1km to the finish the video feed is of JVS riding to the velodrome and then follows his 1.75 laps. then they zoom in and get a sprint by three racers.

prior to that, you see intermixed video of the various groups, but you don't see Thor puff ball out the back.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

thechriswebb said:


> I don't understand a lot of comments in this thread.
> 
> Why in God's name would Thor have chased? Whether or not he was a race favorite, he had a man up the road and that man won Paris Roubaix. A week ago people were slamming race favorite Tom Boonen for chasing and towing Cancellara while he had a man up the road. Thor didn't do that and his team won Paris Roubaix.
> 
> Fabian can "if" all he wants. What he is essentially saying is that he is pissed off that other teams didn't help him win the race. "If my opponents had helped me out then I would have won." People are saying that he gave the most impressive performance of the race and that he would have won if things had been different. That doesn't make sense. The conditions were what they were and someone else won. "If Paris Roubaix had been a TT, Cancellara would have won. He was clearly the strongest in the race." One could just as well complain that Cancellara didn't win on Ventoux and say that if it had been flat he would have won.


I agree.
The race develops however it develops and you play the cards dealt.
Garmin/Cervelo had more cards. Leopard had one Ace & it wasn't enough to beat a pair.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

asciibaron said:


> you don't see Thor puff ball out the back.


I saw Cancellara ride away from the Cancellara/Hushovd/Ballan group with 3.5km to go. Hushovd didn't "puff ball", everyone except Cancellara seemed to carry on as they were. There was no reason for Hushovd to worry because Van Summeren was almost certain to win, and it was almost impossible for Cancellara to overtake him in 3500 metres. 
Also noticed on reviewing that another Garmin was with Hushovd and at 20km to go, the Garmin was doing some good pulls.


Everyone seems oblivious to Van Summeren's record at P-R, he already had a 5th and an 8th, but some of you guys are talking like Garmin sent a flunky neo-pro up the road. Give the guy some props.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*no what would have been*



stevesbike said:


> everything is simple in retrospect - JV almost never makes the right call during a race, but got lucky with this one. They would have looked really stupid if FC had caught van Summeren after all that negative racing...


stupid is had Thor helped Fabian get any closer as any smaller of a gap and FC wins back to back

clearly Thor nor anyone in that group could follow Fabian's attack, so had they worked just a little harder they would have dragged FC to victory

negative racing? No, standard racing protocol. You don't help chase down a break when you have someone strong in it, simple. JVS was reporting great feelings and a desire to attack. Vaughters knew he had a good shot up front. JVS is a rouler, can pedal hard by himself in the wind for long distances. He does it every July. Sunday he was positioned to win and feeling it. Vaughters made the right call. Even his call @ R-V-V wasn't 'bad' he had no rider who could compete with those up front, so he figured his only shot was a sprint.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Bingo*



makeitso said:


> So Thor sprinting (and losing) for 6th place means he had the legs? If he seriously wanted to 'win' wouldn't that mean he would minimally cover Cancellara's moves? He was dropped like a bad habit after doing no work all day if you think he was boxed in, you're just trying to find excuses.
> 
> The bottom line is the strongest rider doesn't always win. Cancellara was obviously the strongest rider of the day. Garmin played the card of having 2 in the front group and felt their odds were stronger with their front 2 vs having a front 3 including Thor but against Cancellara and Ballan. Unfortunately every other team w/ a favorite played the same card as well thus no one worked w/ Cancellara at all. I don't really recall any team having a rider in the peloton put a rider in the front to chase down the lead group. Garmin had a rider up there but his role was just to protect Hushov and in turn whenever a Garmin rider was in front the gap went up. The rest of the work was done by Cancellara.
> 
> The bottom line is Leopard-Trek really needs a strong classics rider who can ride in the peloton and make contributions near the end. It does no good to your leader when the only other person of your team who finishes is 14 min back and goes for the finishers medal.


spot on. Fabian dropped and put time into everyone in that group. None could hold his wheel and all of them combined couldn't reel him in.

Garmin made the right call. Hell they even sent 1 rider out of the break back just in case JVS started blowing up. That way they could have one guy pull and Thor still would not have had to put his nose in the wind.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*actually*



JohnHenry said:


> I agree.
> The race develops however it develops and you play the cards dealt.
> Garmin/Cervelo had more cards. Leopard had one Ace & it wasn't enough to beat a pair.


it was a pair with another high card. Garmin had 2 in the break, they sent one back to the Cacellarra/Hushovd group so they could have a puller and still protect Thor had JVS blown up


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

thechriswebb said:


> I don't understand a lot of comments in this thread.
> 
> Why in God's name would Thor have chased? Whether or not he was a race favorite, he had a man up the road and that man won Paris Roubaix. A week ago people were slamming race favorite Tom Boonen for chasing and towing Cancellara while he had a man up the road. Thor didn't do that and his team won Paris Roubaix.
> 
> Fabian can "if" all he wants. What he is essentially saying is that he is pissed off that other teams didn't help him win the race. "If my opponents had helped me out then I would have won." People are saying that he gave the most impressive performance of the race and that he would have won if things had been different. That doesn't make sense. The conditions were what they were and someone else won. "If Paris Roubaix had been a TT, Cancellara would have won. He was clearly the strongest in the race." One could just as well complain that Cancellara didn't win on Ventoux and say that if it had been flat he would have won.



This is the best explanation of what happened. It's not what the guys who have a man crush on Cancellara want to hear but it's the truth.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*yup*



OnTheRivet said:


> This is the best explanation of what happened. It's not what the guys who have a man crush on Cancellara want to hear but it's the truth.


Fabian finished 28 seconds ahead of Thor
Thor had been sitting on and couldn't grab his wheel when he went
FC caught the 3 man break chasing JVS and Rast and Tjallngii grabbed his wheel and held on while Bak soloed for 5th
Ballan made a late move from the Hushovd group and arrived at the velodrome alone 11 seconds ahead of Thor (still 17 seconds behind Fabian)

had Thor took pulls FC may have caught JVS and won, he finished 19 seconds back


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

Salsa_Lover said:


> IMHO a wheelsucker is not deserving the rainbow stripes


Cadel Evans does not approve of this post!


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

The Tedinator said:


> Cadel Evans does not approve of this post!


Cadel redeemed himself and with such a panache


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## 88 rex (Mar 18, 2008)

Salsa_Lover said:


> Cadel redeemed himself and with such a panache


:yesnod:

He was pretty exciting to watch last year at the Giro, and so far this spring as well.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

atpjunkie said:


> it was a pair with another high card. Garmin had 2 in the break, they sent one back to the Cacellarra/Hushovd group so they could have a puller and still protect Thor had JVS blown up


true that.

Maybe next P-R they will line all the riders up and ITT the course.


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## The Weasel (Jul 20, 2006)

makeitso said:


> So Thor sprinting (and losing) for 6th place means he had the legs? If he seriously wanted to 'win' wouldn't that mean he would minimally cover Cancellara's moves? He was dropped like a bad habit after doing no work all day if you think he was boxed in, you're just trying to find excuses.


This is only a 'possibility', but Thor did hit the deck earlier in the race. We can't know how that affected him. I'm not saying he was on par with FC, but he managed pretty well up until the end. I definitely cannot agree with L'Equipe's assesment of his performance.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

Of course FC was the strongest rider in the race. If it would have been an ITT he would have won fairly easily. But it was a road race, and tactics come into play, and tactically he was snookered. Kind of hard to time trial 160 miles against a pack, I don't care who you are 
The best man never wins a race like this, the smartest or luckiest does or both.


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## peter584 (Aug 17, 2008)

Fabian talks a lot of ****, races to win, and backs it up. Others don't. Confidence is a big part of winning


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## captain stubbing (Mar 30, 2011)

thechriswebb said:


> I don't understand a lot of comments in this thread.
> 
> Why in God's name would Thor have chased? Whether or not he was a race favorite, he had a man up the road and that man won Paris Roubaix. A week ago people were slamming race favorite Tom Boonen for chasing and towing Cancellara while he had a man up the road. Thor didn't do that and his team won Paris Roubaix.
> 
> Fabian can "if" all he wants. What he is essentially saying is that he is pissed off that other teams didn't help him win the race. "If my opponents had helped me out then I would have won." People are saying that he gave the most impressive performance of the race and that he would have won if things had been different. That doesn't make sense. The conditions were what they were and someone else won. "If Paris Roubaix had been a TT, Cancellara would have won. He was clearly the strongest in the race." One could just as well complain that Cancellara didn't win on Ventoux and say that if it had been flat he would have won.


yeah he had a man up the road but he was only 1 of 10 or so in the breakaway, which is hardly good odds......so to say he didn't 'pull' because he had a teammate in a large breakaway is total BS. easy to say that after the event when you know your teammate has won.

JVS only broke away in the last 10kms, but Thor 'sucked' for 250!

it is clearly evident that up until say 10-15kms to go, garmin's plan was for Thor to ride FC to the finish line and beat him in a sprint.....this only changed in the last few kms.

why can't people just realise this?! to say anything else is just stupid.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

JohnHenry said:


> Leopard had one Ace & it wasn't enough to beat a pair.


Why didn't Team Ocelot use Daniele Bennati? He was second in Ghent-Wevelgem.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

captain stubbing said:


> yeah he had a man up the road but he was only 1 of 10 or so in the breakaway, which is hardly good odds......so to say he didn't 'pull' because he had a teammate in a large breakaway is total BS. easy to say that after the event when you know your teammate has won.
> 
> JVS only broke away in the last 10kms, but Thor 'sucked' for 250!
> 
> ...


Did you watch the race live or did you see the abbreviated Versus **** coverage, because if you watched it live you'd know that Hushovd was the FIRST favorite to attack from the group on the Mons-en-Pevele.


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## captain stubbing (Mar 30, 2011)

OnTheRivet said:


> Did you watch the race live or did you see the abbreviated Versus **** coverage, because if you watched it live you'd know that Hushovd was the FIRST favorite to attack from the group on the Mons-en-Pevele.


yep, watched the whole thing on europsort...sorry i was wrong, let me correct that.....he attacked for 2kms and sucked for 248.

sorry bit harsh there, i actually don't have a gripe with the way Thor rode, riding Fabian's wheel was going to be his best (maybe only) chance of victory. my gripe is with those who believe that Thor rode FC's wheel because he had a teammate in the breakaway.


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## boneman (Nov 26, 2001)

*Great Thread*

And you know in some brown bars in Belgium and Holland, just these very discussions are going on with no doubt some argy bargy between fans of different riders.

FC's pretty frustrated over results in the three monuments where he's clearly been the strongest rider but a lot lack of the result is his team. Leopard Trek is not a classics outfit full stop. The Schleck Bros do the Tour, okay, maybe the Ardennes classics but not theclassic that are suited for FC.

Playing his hand early in E3 didn't help, that was perhaps not the most strategic win and again, the team was not there. Also, whoever was the DS at the Ronde and PR didn't exactly show a lot of tactical nous given they had one card to play. As for teamates in PR, I thought Stuey would have been more help but something must have happened. After that Posthuma and Weylandt were probably the only ones who had PR experience. Sky, Garmin, Rabo were just a few of the teams who had numbers, both at the head of the race and in the peleton.

Why did FC leave Riis? My guess is it's pretty complex, egos, Contador coming on board, a lot of the old mates leaving to LT. I think he's a great rider and the strongest in the monuments but in MSR, it was left to a sprint and kudos to him for the 2nd, the Ronde I thought Chavnel road the ultimate team race and Nuyens rode the smart race (see Riis) and in PR, team tactics won the day with a PR rider, JVS, who was strong, well positioned and knew how to keep it going at the end. Chapeau JVS!


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

boneman said:


> As for teamates in PR, I thought Stuey would have been more help but something must have happened.


Yeah, I thought that Leotard had two cards to play - but O'Grady was off the radar screen and I can't recall Phil or Paul saying why.


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## 88 rex (Mar 18, 2008)

captain stubbing said:


> yep, watched the whole thing on europsort...sorry i was wrong, let me correct that.....he attacked for 2kms and sucked for 248.



Yea, totally, FC had his head in the wind the whole race. Total stud. Fabian is a monster and I love watching him attack, but FC doesn't get to the point of attack by riding in the wind. Total wheelsucker I tell ya.


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## nayr497 (Nov 8, 2008)

*exactly.*



stevesbike said:


> I don't understand why some people think a rider can't express an opinion? He was just saying what every analyst, commentator, etc. said. And it was true.


YUP! Couldn't agree more.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

JVS won Paris Roubaix. 

FC did not. 

JVS won with a successful, aggressive attack and rode to the finish line alone. FC was not successful in chasing him down. Saying that FC _would have been successful_ if he had longer to chase is absolutely irrelevant. He was not successful. 

JVS won the race, won it well, and there is no argument that can be made against him being the deserving winner. Give the guy some friggin credit. FC is not a god and lost Flanders and Roubaix fair and square, against riders who were playing by all of the rules. 

People get upset when their superhero fails and don't want to accept that he lost the races fairly. The objective of a road race is to be the first person to get across the line, not to make the biggest, most macho exhibition. The award goes to the team/rider that uses the best combination of strength, tactics, and teamwork to get across the line first. Fabian Cancellara was not that person in Flanders or Roubaix, period. 

I'm not really a MMA fan but I happened to see a championship fight between Brock Lesnar and Cain Velasquez. Coming into the ring, Lesnar was the clear favorite as he was obviously the biggest, strongest man in the fight and was the reigning world champion with his own blindly worshiping fan base. Velasquez destroyed him in the fight with superior tactics. After this, no one could make an argument as to why Lesnar was really the deserving winner because he was bigger, stronger, and more popular. MMA and Cycling are different sports but is there an argument as to why these two scenarios are any different at all? 

I do know one way that they are different. After the fight, Lesnar admitted that the better man won and said that he needed to get back to work on cleaning up his tactics to be a better and more well rounded fighter instead of complaining that he was obviously the strongest man deserving of the win and that Velasquez fought less of a fight because he used tactics and smarts instead of standing there clubbing at Lesnar like a gorilla (that's what the Lesnar worshipers wanted to see though; they wanted to see a brainless slug-fest and watch their superhero god pound the smaller man into hamburger meat).


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

Wow, over 125 posts. Amazing!


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