# Are Look and Time-Sport bicycles the same company?



## adjtogo (Nov 18, 2006)

I've been trying to figure out if Time-Sports and Look are the same company or sister companies in France. Greg Lemond has ties to both, and he mentions both in his documentaries. I watched Youtube videos on how they make Time bikes, and how they weave their own CF and mold their bikes one at a time, but I had a hard time finding anything about Look on Youtube, so I was just wondering if anyone knows? And if you were to buy a new, upscale CF bike, would you buy a Time bike or Look?


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

They are not the same company.

I wouldn't touch either.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

Maybe they've become one company since I last looked, but as far as I know they're totally separate concerns. As for me, I love 'em both. Excellent makers. Yes, my Time did not survive my big crash of a couple years back, but it was not the bike's fault. It was the fault of the car that hit me. The bicycle did not fail on its own, and I have the sense that no bicycle would have survived the impact. Even if the bicycle (any bicycle) had survived, would I have the nerve to ride it again, even if it passed physical inspection?


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

adjtogo said:


> I've been trying to figure out if Time-Sports and Look are the same company or sister companies in France. Greg Lemond has ties to both, and he mentions both in his documentaries. I watched Youtube videos on how they make Time bikes, and how they weave their own CF and mold their bikes one at a time, but I had a hard time finding anything about Look on Youtube, so I was just wondering if anyone knows? And if you were to buy a new, upscale CF bike, would you buy a Time bike or Look?


Completely different companies. Different pedals, too. TIME makes Lemond's bikes.


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## charlox5 (Jan 31, 2011)

adjtogo said:


> And if you were to buy a new, upscale CF bike, would you buy a Time bike or Look?


No qualms about buying either. FWIW my fav bike in my current stable is a Look 585, which has been marvelous by any measure. It's actually surprising that the Look is my favorite, the others have a lot of character: Ti or Steel, Campagnolo groups, more comfy saddles, etc. The look got built as a "what should I do with 75% of a SRAM Force/Red group" and Weight-Weenie'ing on a budget, and it ended up the fastest, smoothest, and lightest (14.5 lbs) bike in my collection.


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## PaxRomana (Jan 16, 2012)

MMsRepBike said:


> They are not the same company.
> 
> I wouldn't touch either.


What? Have you ever owned a Time? What a silly statement.


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## PaxRomana (Jan 16, 2012)

PlatyPius said:


> Completely different companies. Different pedals, too. TIME makes Lemond's bikes.


Not anymore. That deal fell through awhile ago.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

PaxRomana said:


> Not anymore. That deal fell through awhile ago.


Really? Bicycle Retailer didn't report that...only the deal. Wish they'd follow up stuff like that.


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## PaxRomana (Jan 16, 2012)

PlatyPius said:


> Really? Bicycle Retailer didn't report that...only the deal. Wish they'd follow up stuff like that.


Unfortunately, the parting wasn't exactly on good terms.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

This is the last I heard, and the latest on wikipedia.

" LeMond purchased Time Sport USA, the US distributor for the company. He will be responsible for US distribution of the company's line of frames, bikes, and components. Said LeMond: "I'm really excited to be back in the bike industry." "


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## mik_git (Jul 27, 2012)

Yeah, I don't know why people keep saying this that Time and Lemond parted ways... not saying it didn't happen, but seems kind of weird since he did only just buy the US distributor, and nobody seems to be saying that there was any parting of ways apart from a couple of people here...

For what it's worth, I am loving my Look, it's damn awesome.


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## adjtogo (Nov 18, 2006)

I did a little more research. Both Time and LOOK are separate companies, and both weave their own CF bikes right in France. LOOK has some sleaker, more aerodynamic bikes with the stem forward. They have some really unique bikes and I'm sure they sell well, but the frame warranty is only 5 years. I heard a few cyclists were given a hard time from LOOK on warranty issues.

Time bikes, on the other hand, have a lifetime warranty on the frame. They do have a variety of road bikes in different classes. For me, the Fluidity Aktiv would be the best fit for my style of riding, body composition, and comfort. 

Both LOOK and Time bikes are pretty much in the same price range.

If I was ever to buy another CF bike, I'd sure be leaning toward a Time bike, or a Lemond limited edition. I found a few bike shops online that sell Time bikes in the USA. They both have last year's frame discounted. 

I'd rather have a bike that is hand made with perfection from France than a bike mass produced in Asia.


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## mik_git (Jul 27, 2012)

I think you'll find that Look isn't actually made IN france.

I really liked the idea of a Fluidity or an Izon, but Time don't import anything into Australia at the moment... and I think the 675 is about the most gorgeous thing on 2 wheels...


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

mik_git said:


> I think you'll find that Look isn't actually made IN france.
> 
> I really liked the idea of a Fluidity or an Izon, but Time don't import anything into Australia at the moment... and I think the 675 is about the most gorgeous thing on 2 wheels...


Unless it has changed in the last few years, the cheap model is made in Tunisia and the rest are made in France.


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## mik_git (Jul 27, 2012)

I thought they were all made in Tunisia now...
Frames are made in Tunisia from Japanse sourced carbon, then painted in France, pedals are still made in France.

"However, just as Valentino is somewhat beguiled by domestic labor costs in Italy, Thierry too is quick to admit similar cost constraints in France. In fact, he readily admits that as expensive as a Look frame is now, it would be unbearable if he used French labor for the tedious process of making each frame. As it is, each of the bikes in the Flag Series takes over five hours of paint work alone. All of the carbon material used in Tunisia is Japanese in origin before it’s shipped to France for the pre-preg work, and then finally shipped to Tunisia. "
RBA 2012

Just becasue RBA said it, doesn't make it true, but it seems thats the way it is.


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## adjtogo (Nov 18, 2006)

According to various websites, interviews and documentaries on Youtube about Time, and even on Lemond's own website, everything is made in France, even the stem. I don't know if LOOK outsourced anything or not. There wasn't too many Youtube videos on LOOK and their manufacturing process, such as there is on Time and Lemond. And I saw the Lemond Limited Edition bikes, which are made by Time. I'm even thinking about the 1986 Limited Edition. Prices are about the same as a Time. I just need a comparable model to the Fluidity.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

mik_git said:


> I thought they were all made in Tunisia now...
> Frames are made in Tunisia from Japanse sourced carbon, then painted in France, pedals are still made in France.
> 
> "However, just as Valentino is somewhat beguiled by domestic labor costs in Italy, Thierry too is quick to admit similar cost constraints in France. In fact, he readily admits that as expensive as a Look frame is now, it would be unbearable if he used French labor for the tedious process of making each frame. As it is, each of the bikes in the Flag Series takes over five hours of paint work alone. All of the carbon material used in Tunisia is Japanese in origin before it’s shipped to France for the pre-preg work, and then finally shipped to Tunisia. "
> ...


My last direct experience with LOOK was in 2008, so I guess things have changed. Too bad.


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## mik_git (Jul 27, 2012)

Er... I said Look are made in Tunisia, nothing about where Time...they are definately made in France.

An equavalent to the Fluidty would be either the 675 or the 566. Not that I know anything, but I would say the 566 is closest in geometry to the Fluidity with a taller headtube.

But for Lemond, I think, all 3 of the models are the exact same frame, just with different paint jobs for each year, you can order with or without the integrated seatpole (which is why the look differently). From memory, they are a NXs front triangle with a slightly different rear triangle (or the other way around) and the compareable model now is the Izon, not the Fluidity...which is probably comparable to the Look 675...

From what I understand...went through all this when buying my bike over the last 6 months


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## mik_git (Jul 27, 2012)

PlatyPius said:


> My last direct experience with LOOK was in 2008, so I guess things have changed. Too bad.


Yeah, it's a bit of a downer. Not like I have anything against a frame made in Asia (or Tunisia), but when you plunk down a pile of $$$$, the fact that it was made in the country of the company, by "hopefully" people crafting a frame rather than pumping out one... it's more a warm and fuzzy feelgood factor than anything.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

PaxRomana said:


> What? Have you ever owned a Time? What a silly statement.


No, I haven't owned one. I work for a TIME dealer though so I've worked on plenty and seen most. Silly? Not even close. I can give TIME credit for innovating and doing new things. I cannot give them credit for doing them very well. Just my opinion, I would never buy one.


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## PaxRomana (Jan 16, 2012)

MMsRepBike said:


> No, I haven't owned one. I work for a TIME dealer though so I've worked on plenty and seen most. Silly? Not even close. I can give TIME credit for innovating and doing new things. I cannot give them credit for doing them very well. Just my opinion, I would never buy one.


I've owned 6 as well as Pinarellos, Cannondales, Moots, Fondriests, etc. Time are hands down the best frames I have ever ridden. Cyfac are a close second. Claiming that Time doesn't do things well is plain ignorance. Bettini and Boonen won WCs on the Time VXRS. When Specialized bought out QuickStep's bike contract, the riders still had re-badged Time forks on their Specialized bikes. 

But you can believe whatever you want. Ignorance is bliss, I suppose.


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## PaxRomana (Jan 16, 2012)

PlatyPius said:


> This is the last I heard, and the latest on wikipedia.
> 
> " LeMond purchased Time Sport USA, the US distributor for the company. He will be responsible for US distribution of the company's line of frames, bikes, and components. Said LeMond: "I'm really excited to be back in the bike industry." "


Actually, the US distribution center for Time is now Contender Bicycles in Salt Lake City. They have all of Time's US inventory there. That wikipedia article is old news. Time pulled out of the deal after some "issues" surfaced. It wasn't Time's fault, let's say that.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

PlatyPius said:


> Really? Bicycle Retailer didn't report that...only the deal. Wish they'd follow up stuff like that.


They did - September 25, 2014.

A more complete account of the history was summarized on these forums here.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

ibericb said:


> They did - September 25, 2014.
> 
> A more complete account of the history was summarized on these forums here.


Ah. I was preparing to move the store and was selling at Apple Cider Century and such when that came out. That's why I didn't see it.


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## PaxRomana (Jan 16, 2012)

ibericb said:


> They did - September 25, 2014.
> 
> A more complete account of the history was summarized on these forums here.


Unfortunately, neither of those stories are reporting what really happened between Time and Lemond. Personally, I have been a fan of Lemond for a very long time, but after hearing the history, I'd hesitate to buy anything with his name on it. I believe Lemond and his former business partner are now suing each other to boot. 

It was Time who pulled out of the deal, and wisely so.


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## mik_git (Jul 27, 2012)

Well that not a happy story. A couple of times people have said the deal went south, seemed a bit weird since Lemond just took over timeUSA, went off looking for info, couldn't find anything. Guess just not looking in the right places.


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## adjtogo (Nov 18, 2006)

Well, I decided to email Lemond bikes about their Ltd Edition TdF bikes for Lemond's victories. They replied and all three models have the same exact geometry, but have different paint and label patterns. The only thing they had left in stock were medium with internal cabling for Di2. 

I asked if they were made by Time in France, and they said yes.

Well, my conclusion. Since Lemond is kind of on the "shakey" side of things business-wise, if I were to buy any bike, I'd buy a Time, probably from Contender Bikes. I emailed them too, and they responded within just a few minutes. They were very informative.


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## PaxRomana (Jan 16, 2012)

adjtogo said:


> Well, I decided to email Lemond bikes about their Ltd Edition TdF bikes for Lemond's victories. They replied and all three models have the same exact geometry, but have different paint and label patterns. The only thing they had left in stock were medium with internal cabling for Di2.
> 
> I asked if they were made by Time in France, and they said yes.
> 
> Well, my conclusion. Since Lemond is kind of on the "shakey" side of things business-wise, if I were to buy any bike, I'd buy a Time, probably from Contender Bikes. I emailed them too, and they responded within just a few minutes. They were very informative.


Contender is my local shop, and I've been going there for many many years. Ryan, the owner, is a great guy and very knowledgeable. Plus, being the distribution center for Time in the US, they have a huge selection.


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## twiggy73 (Jan 19, 2010)

For the record as far as I am aware. The Look 566 and 675 are made in Taiwan and the rest are made in Tunisia. The Factory in Tunisia is owned, Run and Controlled by look and makes all the time trial, mountain bikes, the 695 and the 795 before the bikes are shipped to France for painting and finishing. And Final inspection.


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## mik_git (Jul 27, 2012)

In a moment of late night pondering while watching the TdF night about this, I though, well I'll email them to find out. Nothing wrong with Asian made frames, they make good stuff. So lets see, I'll ask about 675 as that's of interest to me, since we know 695/795's are made in Tunisia. 
Reply today was, all frames made in Tunisia, then shipped back to france for finishing/painting.


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