# Should I go for the full tune-up?



## Banks246 (Jul 3, 2011)

My Cervelo R3 has two years (5k miles) on it. Every spring Danny's has a special for their tune-up. Used to be 50% off the $80 but now it is $60. You don't really get much for the price, but I figure i might as well do it. 

Now I see the full monty is $125. This includes new brake and derailleur cables, bearing check, etc. 

What do you think -- should I go for it? [See link below]

Service & Repair - Danny's Cycles NYC NY CT


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Maybe it's because I've been doing my own wrenching for 25 years, but I can't believe the prices for the services performed. 

Ever consider getting some tools and giving this a go yourself? If you're fairly mechanical (and I'll admit, not everyone is), a one time investment will save you at least $100 annually. 

That suggestion offered, with 2 years and 5k miles logged, I'd think the $60 General Tune would suffice. You can check bearings for play easy enough and wipe down/ clean your bike. Anything you found that was amiss they'd charge extra for anyway.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Lately, I've been paying for a pretty thorough tuneup on my 'A' bike. I'm more of a mountain biker, so I thrash it around trails and it gets pretty ridiculously dirty. I think it helps me stay out ahead of things going wrong in competition, too, though now and then stuff still goes wrong.

My road bikes have always led a much easier life.

If you don't really want to take the time to tune your own bike, that's fine. I feel like I usually end up needing a couple hours to do a good job, often with a bit of shopping. So it's really about whether or not I can fit that in. Used to be I could. Lately, it's harder unless I'm going to give up a ride to do it.

You also might be a little critical of how much of a tuneup you really need. I mean, I wipe down my chain after every ride and relube as needed, and I make small adjustments on my barrel adjusters when it comes up. I can ride a road bike thousands of miles like that without having to do more beyond maybe changing the chain now and then. You should definitely keep an eye on the wear in your bearings just because it can sometimes do something really expensive if you don't. But otherwise, if your bike isn't riding like it needs a tuneup, it doesn't need a tuneup. There are a lot of other things that can just be done as-needed if I'm paying attention during my rides.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

PJ352 said:


> Anything you found that was amiss they'd charge extra for anyway.


Exactly. And on that note, also consider that it doesn't have to be an either-or thing. Say you find that both wheels are out-of-true. If you're not yet comfortable with a spoke wrench, take the wheels out of the bike and bring them to the shop. You may even be able to get them done while you wait.


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

Banks246 said:


> My Cervelo R3 has two years (5k miles) on it. Every spring Danny's has a special for their tune-up. Used to be 50% off the $80 but now it is $60. You don't really get much for the price, but I figure i might as well do it.
> 
> Now I see the full monty is $125. This includes new brake and derailleur cables, bearing check, etc.
> 
> ...


Depending on your environment and under the conditions you ride, I would definitely recommend having a full tune up at 2 years. I take prime ride bikes apart on a yearly basis (granted they see a bit more miles).


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

mikerp said:


> Depending on your environment and under the conditions you ride.....


Sure. But in the end, it depends on the condition the bike is in. There's a good chance that an obsessively maintained Cervelo R3 (regardless of where and how it was ridden) will not need $125 dollars worth of work.

In my experience, the bikes that make the owner really get his money's worth are those on which normally routine procedures turn into major goat ropes because of criminal neglect. Not too long ago, I spent more than an hour and used terrible language trying to replace a simple square taper cartridge bottom bracket on one of those sad bicycles.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

I'm not all that consistent on what maintenance I do...

sometimes I'll tackle a job, sometimes I'll just let the shop guys do it.

recently installed a new chain, bar tape, brake pads. while replacing those items, noticed the RD cable was frayed. 

since I had to go to the shop for the part, I just tossed the bike in the car and let the mech there replace it...DIY would have been $5, paying for professional help added another $15 to the cost...

whatevers.


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## Mr645 (Jun 14, 2013)

I value the expertise of a top quality bike mechanic. Some things I can fix but other times there are tricks I may miss since I am not a professional bike mechanic. Changing a stem or installing a computer I can handle, but changing cables and getting the shifting just right I find that my LBS does a better job. On a recent ride I broke my rear shifter cable and that left my 90 miles from the end with a single speed rear set up. The Local shop was able to replace all the cabling and check the bike over and found that the lower head tube bearing was in bad shape. I never would have seen that by fixing the cable myself


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

From what I understand going rate and considered to be fair rate for labor at shops is around $60. For the life of me I can't see how someone could spend two hours ($125 worth of labor) checking cable, bearnings and general tune up stuff. 
Keep in mind "tune up" doesn't include any work that a tune up will expose as being needed. A tune up is just inspecting and twisting a few knobs and screws.


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## Mr645 (Jun 14, 2013)

I was charged $180, so about 3 hours labor. This included replacing all shifter and brakes cables and housing. Disassemble the bike, clean and lube crank bearings, head bearings, replace lower head bearing. Clean and adjust drivetrain. 
I was also charged for new bar tape and $21 for the actual bearing. The $180 included all new Jagwire sealed cables. Oh, the right brifter needed to be taken apart to get bit of left over cable out of it from where the cable broke. 

They also cleaned and waxed the entire bike


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Jay Strongbow said:


> For the life of me I can't see how someone could spend two hours ($125 worth of labor) checking cable, bearnings and general tune up stuff.
> Keep in mind "tune up" doesn't include any work that a tune up will expose as being needed. A tune up is just inspecting and twisting a few knobs and screws.


According to the link the OP provided, the $125 tune up includes 
◾New brake cable & housings
◾New derailer cable & housings
◾Removal of all component for cleaning, degreasing, and lubrication

So it's a little more involved than just looking and twisting knobs.


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

wim said:


> Sure. But in the end, it depends on the condition the bike is in. There's a good chance that an obsessively maintained Cervelo R3 (regardless of where and how it was ridden) will not need $125 dollars worth of work.


Hence my disclaimer, on the other hand a fastidiously cleaned bike that looks great on the outside could well be suffering on the inside. Sometime less is better in regards to cleaning.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

tlg said:


> According to the link the OP provided, the $125 tune up includes
> ◾New brake cable & housings
> ◾New derailer cable & housings
> ◾Removal of all component for cleaning, degreasing, and lubrication
> ...


My mistake. Despite the OP saying it and it being in the link I missed that. 
I just read quickly and assumed "tune up" didn't include any new parts (cables and housing).

that changes my opinion completely. I'd actually do that, OP, especially if you have shimano becaue once you get over 5k miles you need to start to worry about the shifter cable breaking inside the shifter so it's a good idea to replace them anyway even if working fine. And that's a good price for all that work plus the cables and housing. Just make sure they're using half decent stainless cables.


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

^^^Bingo, reading is fundamental :thumbsup:


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

mikerp said:


> Sometime less is better in regards to cleaning.


For sure. I still have a wheelset with Campagnolo mountain bike rims marred by my overzealous application of degreaser. Pisses me off every time I look at them...


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## Banks246 (Jul 3, 2011)

My wheels look to be (basically) true. I usually just look for the start-of-the-year derailleur tune-up. My chain is basically clean and I always wipe down the bike. I would never attempt to replace any of the cables and that is the part that intrigues me. Replacing all four cables and the more-detailed inspection sounds like it might be worth the extra $65 -- more as a preemptive strike. I guess at the end of the day my question is what is the "standard" life of the cables?


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

Banks246 said:


> My wheels look to be (basically) true. I usually just look for the start-of-the-year derailleur tune-up. My chain is basically clean and I always wipe down the bike. I would never attempt to replace any of the cables and that is the part that intrigues me. Replacing all four cables and the more-detailed inspection sounds like it might be worth the extra $65 -- more as a preemptive strike. I guess at the end of the day my question is what is the "standard" life of the cables?


As mentioned it depends on your environment and how much you ride.
The more you ride the more you shift (in theory), the more you shift the more the housing will wear with the cable, add exposure to dust/dirt/rain/salts(blood, sweat, and tears) and things go up as well. If you simply wiped down the bike after rides things will be a lot better compared to if you power wash the bike after each ride.
The extra $65 is not a rip off (I'm assuming the shop is using good quality parts).


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

I usually replace cables yearly on my race bike, and cables and housings every other year. I put about 6k miles a year on that bike.

$65 for recabling is not a bad price. Does it include re-wrapping the bars? The cables run under the bar tape. If the tape comes off you should put on new tape. 

Cabling a bike is not hard.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

$125.00 _cables/housing included?_ And why are you asking if this is worth it? I charge $225.00 labor only...all parts are additional. It's not a cheap hobby.


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## Roland44 (Mar 21, 2013)

cxwrench said:


> $125.00 _cables/housing included?_ And why are you asking if this is worth it? I charge $225.00 labor only...all parts are additional. It's not a cheap hobby.


Yeah, $125 is a steal if you ask me.


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## captain stubbing (Mar 30, 2011)

not sure whether i'm just naive or lucky but do you really need need new cables after 5k miles? i've done 30k on one bike and over 10k on another with the original cables housing etc with no issues whatsoever.

and i don't really know what the need is for constant tuning......the occasional quarter turn of the barrel adjuster is all i've ever needed to do.

only maintenance is lubing the chain every so open and replacing the chain, tyres and bar tape when worn out.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Banks246 said:


> I would never attempt to replace any of the cables and that is the part that intrigues me.


Then why not give it a try? The absolute worse you'll do is futz it up and bring the bike to your LBS to have the work done, which you're going to do anyway. 

As was mentioned, replacing cables is not difficult, and given your mileage, the housings are likely fine.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

Banks246 said:


> My Cervelo R3 has two years (5k miles) on it. Every spring Danny's has a special for their tune-up. Used to be 50% off the $80 but now it is $60. You don't really get much for the price, but I figure i might as well do it.
> 
> Now I see the full monty is $125. This includes new brake and derailleur cables, bearing check, etc.
> 
> What do you think -- should I go for it? [See link below]


No.

It's a good idea to repack your cup-and-cone hub bearings, not just adjust them.

You're probably due for chain replacement.

If you shift like you have ADHD you might need a new right shifter cable, and perhaps housing.

Everything else should be fine.

Shift to the big ring and small cog. Pull the rear derailleur back to tension the chain and measure the bottom run between the same point on pins which should be 11 or 12" apart. At > 1/16" extra it's time for a new chain, much more and you'll need a new cassette too. If you're a little over try a new one and see how it runs; skipping dictates a new cassette.

Shift to the big cog while pedaling. With the wheel stopped shift back to the small cog. Pull the rear housing loop. Push the cable out of the shifter. Flex the end. If there are broken strands replace it. If the cable has high friction replace the housing, and do the cable regardless of its status because you already need to reinstall the cable and adjust the derailleur.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

captain stubbing said:


> not sure whether i'm just naive or lucky but do you really need need new cables after 5k miles? i've done 30k on one bike and over 10k on another with the original cables housing etc with no issues whatsoever.


Some of us do.

I wear out right shift cables in 2500 miles which is every 4-6 months. Current Shimano and Campagnolo shift lever cable routing has a hard 90 degree turn in it that quickly fatigues the cable. With original Campagnolo ergo levers I used to get 4500 miles out of right cables with problems closer to the head from the cable winding around the shift drum.

Here's 2637 miles of wear on a genuine Campagnolo cable:








Plastic lined rear derailleur housing under the bar tape lasts me 5000 miles. The steel cable wears a groove in the soft plastic which increases friction. The bends under the bar tape exacerbate the situation. With unlined housings I used to get indefinite life in the front piece, and very long life before the rear loop gunked up.

OTOH, some people shift less and get tens of thousands of miles.

I rarely replace left shift and brake housing/cable; generally only when the housings are old and cracking and as long as I'm doing the housing I might as well take care of the cable. Every 5-10 years is about right if a shifter/bar/other change forcing changes doesn't happen sooner. I also used to replace my front (on the right which is backwards from tradition in the US) brake cable every few years when I had to take it out to rebuild my right shift lever due to worn out G-springs. My attitude here is that while the parts are nearly free my time isn't.

Brake cables don't fatigue like shift cables because they have a straight shot to a pivot in the lever so there are no tight bends.



> and i don't really know what the need is for constant tuning......the occasional quarter turn of the barrel adjuster is all i've ever needed to do.


No adjustment is needed after new housings settle until shifts to smaller cogs get sluggish. While you might make things better by reducing tension at that point, causes included frayed cables which will break soon and a bent hanger that could put the derailleur into the spokes so you want to identify and fix the problem instead.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

captain stubbing said:


> not sure whether i'm just naive or lucky but do you really need need new cables after 5k miles? i've done 30k on one bike and over 10k on another with the original cables housing etc with no issues whatsoever.
> 
> and i don't really know what the need is for constant tuning......the occasional quarter turn of the barrel adjuster is all i've ever needed to do.
> 
> only maintenance is lubing the chain every so open and replacing the chain, tyres and bar tape when worn out.


This is _your personal experience._ Why is it so hard to understand that other riders can and do have hugely different experiences to yours? You keep riding those cables and I promise you'll have a big problem sometime soon.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Just for my curiosity - stubbing, you wouldn't be on downtube shifters by any chance?


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

captain stubbing said:


> not sure whether i'm just naive or lucky but do you really need need new cables after 5k miles? i've done 30k on one bike and over 10k on another with the original cables housing etc with no issues whatsoever.
> 
> and i don't really know what the need is for constant tuning......the occasional quarter turn of the barrel adjuster is all i've ever needed to do.
> 
> only maintenance is lubing the chain every so open and replacing the chain, tyres and bar tape when worn out.


you seem more than a bit naive. 

do you really think your experiences should be directly comparable to other riders...?


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## captain stubbing (Mar 30, 2011)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Just for my curiosity - stubbing, you wouldn't be on downtube shifters by any chance?


Nope, 2009 campy veloce on the commuter and da 9000 on the other.


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## captain stubbing (Mar 30, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> This is _your personal experience._ Why is it so hard to understand that other riders can and do have hugely different experiences to yours? You keep riding those cables and I promise you'll have a big problem sometime soon.


yes it is my personal experience....who else's would it be?? i did say that i may be lucky so perhaps you could have put 2 and 2 together in respect to my comments.


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## Banks246 (Jul 3, 2011)

Isn't the absolute worst more like I do it, it seems to be correct, then 50 miles from home it turns out it isn't correct and I'm screwed???


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

Banks246 said:


> Isn't the absolute worst more like I do it, it seems to be correct, then 50 miles from home it turns out it isn't correct and I'm screwed???


Bicycles are very simple machines.

If you replace your right shift cable and housing it's going to keep working for a long time, probably over the 5000 you got out of your last one.

In theory you could neglect to get the cable clamp bolt tight enough leading to slippage; although if that happens you use your hex key to tighten it, waste a little time adjusting, and are back and business. Obviously, that suggests having the right hex key - I have 5mm for most things and 6mm for seat post/quill stem with me in a wedge pack on every ride; your needs may be different. Some people like multi-tools.

In practice the worst that's likely to happen is the cable housing settling a little bit and requiring an extra 1/4 turn of the adjuster to restore silent operation and fast shifts to bigger cogs. You run that risk with the shop too.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Banks246 said:


> Isn't the absolute worst more like I do it, it seems to be correct, then 50 miles from home it turns out it isn't correct and I'm screwed???


My best answer to this is.... 

Back around 1990 I started learning to do my own wrenching because I brought my bike to an LBS to get a "full tune-up" and two wheel hubs overhauled. I guess my expectations were a bit high because all he did (for $110) was overhaul the hubs as far as I could tell. 

I decided at that point that I cared more about my bike and its condition that he did, so I gathered up some how to books (it was the stone age, so no internet), some tools and never looked back. Never got stranded, either, which leads me to...

Was riding with a guy I just happen to meet up with one day. Things were going fine till his bottom bracket essentially de-installed, leaving him stranded. He told me he just had the bike in for service, too. So, as was mentioned, getting stranded can happen when your LBS works on a bike. Just depends on how careful the person doing the wrenching is. 

If you don't want to try the re-cabling, don't. It's your bike, so your choice. But there are a number of benefits to working on your bike that go beyond cost saving. You do the work at your convenience, less downtime, and some satisfaction in doing the work yourself and riding a well tuned machine. At least that's what I get out of it.

Re-cabling really isn't difficult, so a good place to start.


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## masont (Feb 6, 2010)

Jay Strongbow said:


> From what I understand going rate and considered to be fair rate for labor at shops is around $60. For the life of me I can't see how someone could spend two hours ($125 worth of labor) checking cable, bearnings and general tune up stuff.
> Keep in mind "tune up" doesn't include any work that a tune up will expose as being needed. A tune up is just inspecting and twisting a few knobs and screws.


The shop I work for totally disassembles the bike for close to that fee. We drop the fork, pull the cranks, take all the parts off until it is a bare frame. We clean the frame in the stand, then all the parts individually in a parts washer/solvent tank, including each individual cassette cog, one by one. After they dry, we re-grease everything that's threaded, re-install everything, and go. We service the hubs, true the wheels in the stand, straighten the hanger and replace any parts that need it - usually stuff like chain, cables/housing, tires, bar tape, brake pads, bottom brackets, etc. After everything is installed, we have to run cable and reattach everything. 

That's when we get to the the "twisting a few knobs and screws" part, as you so eloquently put it. After we adjust the derailleurs and brakes, we take it for a test ride. Then we (always) have another mechanic inspect the work, see if they can find anything to correct, then they test ride it, because people aren't happy if one mechanic is having a bad day and misses one step of this. They expect perfection and we need to deliver that.

You are welcome to come by any day. I'll bring a well used 10 year old bike that hasn't been serviced in 8 in. If you can get all that done in two hours to the standards we expect, I'll be very impressed. If you can't, I won't be surprised at all. Our mechanics work hard.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

captain stubbing said:


> Nope, 2009 campy veloce on the commuter and da 9000 on the other.


What I was getting at that you so thoroughly missed was that you're supposed to benefit from the experiences of others on a forum like this...it's the whole point. Of course you only have your personal experience, but if you continually read that others have problems well before you do in terms of how long cables last, you might consider changing them a little more often rather than relying on being very lucky as you have been so far. Maybe not after 5k miles, but certainly before 30k.


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