# Rear derailleur broke - whose fault?



## rover19 (Feb 17, 2012)

So I'm pretty new to road biking. I bought a bike from Bikesdirect a few weeks ago, had it built by my local bike shop, and prior to tonight, had gone on precisely 2 (short) rides.

Tonight, I decided to bike to a soccer game (where I ended up spraining my ankle - what a night!), when my rear derailleur just sort of ... catastrophically failed.

I was biking at very low speed, as I was just working my way through a bunch of traffic lights. The chain was in the middle of the cassette, and I was in the middle chainring on my triple. All of a sudden, I heard some "crunch" noises and the rear wheel starting locking up. When I stopped, here's what I found:










Hi-res image: https://i.imgur.com/2QtNk.jpg

So - what the hell? The hanger appears to be bent, but other pieces appear to have just basically snapped off. 

Who's likely at fault here? Is this a component problem that might be covered by warranty? Did my LBS screw something up? It seems like this sort of thing shouldn't happen on my third-ever ride, especially when I wasn't riding hard or anything...

Input much appreciated.

-------------------------------------------------

*UPDATE:*

I emailed bikesdirect and they got back to me in a matter of hours. After looking at my pictures and reading the description of what happened, they agreed that the chain was likely the culprit. They are sending me a new derailleur, hanger, and chain. 

Not bad!


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## FBinNY (Jan 24, 2009)

Too many unknowns. Usually RDs break like this when shifting to low and overshifting into the wheel. However you say you were in a middle gear so that rules out that cause.

Other possibilities include, a weak hanger. Dealers tell me that some of the breakaway hangers break much to easily, and are like a 10amp fuse in a 20 amp circuit. It could also have been a misadjusted "B" screw that had the RD riding too close to the sprocket, a stiff chainlink jamming in the idler cage, or some other gremlin. Trying to figure out what initiated the problem is about as easy as finding which of two young brothers started the fight.

Unfortunately for you, it may be hard to make a warranty claim since the dealer will say it was the bike (or you) and the seller will say the bike was fine, and obviously not assembled or maintained correctly.

Sorry, I wish I had better news.


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## rover19 (Feb 17, 2012)

Hmm... that's not good news.

Just to reiterate, the hanger is still attached. It never broke. It bent a bit, but didn't break. It appears that it broke where the cage plate attaches to the... umm... other thingy.


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## FBinNY (Jan 24, 2009)

I took a closer look, and it seems that the cage is broken away from the lower body of the derailleur. Looking at how twisted the cage is, I'd guess that it got tangled in the spokes of the moving wheel. Look for a bent or scratched spoke to confirm that.

But, you're still left with a chicken and egg mystery as to what started the problem. As I said earlier this almost never happens except when shifting to the low gear sprocket, since on any other the RD is far away from the spokes.

If this were built by the seller it'd be easier to press a "part defect or misadjustment, it's all the same since you provided both" claim, but you have two entities and it'll be nearly impossible to sort out who's at fault.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

I think it's the derailleur.

Just go on Ebay and get another one for cheap. Done.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I think the rear derailleur failed, therefore BD should replace the derailleur and the bent hanger under warranty. Have the bike shop confirm in writing that the derailleur failed due to manufacture defect and then contact BD. 

The pic is not real clear but it looks like the outer plate came apart maybe due to the pin shearing off that goes through the lower knuckle spring; take a look and see if that pin is sheared. 

Secondarily it could also be a malfunction of the chain, where a faulty link may have started to let loose and the derailleur caught it destroying it. So check to see if you see a damaged chain link.

Make sure no spokes were damaged in the process because if so then it's possible that if the derailleur or the chain failed due to manufacture defect then you have to get the spokes replaced to. If it was a component failure I would try to get BD to replace the bike in it's entirety since it scratched the paint, gears both front and rear, chain, maybe the spokes, and bent stuff etc.

Again take it to the LBS that worked on it and see if they can determine the cause which could help you get a new derailleur and hanger for free instead of buying one on E-bay. They, the LBS, can also check to see if there was any other damage like to the frame.


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## rover19 (Feb 17, 2012)

froze said:


> ...Have the bike shop confirm in writing that the derailleur failed due to manufacture defect and then contact BD.
> 
> ...
> it could also be a malfunction of the chain, where a faulty link may have started to let loose and the derailleur caught it destroying it. So check to see if you see a damaged chain link.


My plan is definitely to take the bike to my LBS, but they're unfortunately closed today.

The chain is completely screwed up. One of the links detached/broke on one side and is pretty much mangled on the other side. It's kind of hard to tell whether that happened before or after the derailleur incident though. Obviously I need someone with more knowledge to take a look...


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

rover19 said:


> My plan is definitely to take the bike to my LBS, but they're unfortunately closed today.
> 
> The chain is completely screwed up. One of the links detached/broke on one side and is pretty much mangled on the other side. It's kind of hard to tell whether that happened before or after the derailleur incident though. Obviously I need someone with more knowledge to take a look...


Now I'm leaning toward a chain failure, though could be wrong of course. But I once saw a pin fail, as I mentioned in my earlier post, but the chain remained intact. I think a chain link either had a pin not fully inserted or a side plate came slightly detached due to a pin issue and caught a gear tooth and wham.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

which is more likely? a broken RD causing the chain to break? or a broken chain causing the RD to break??

I'm thinking a broken chain causing RD to break. Well if the LBS assembled the chain (they must have since a new bike doesn't ship with a chain intact), then heck maybe it's the LBS that didn't put the chain together correctly!


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

aclinjury said:


> which is more likely? a broken RD causing the chain to break? or a broken chain causing the RD to break??


 Neither. It's 50/50.



> Well if the LBS assembled the chain (they must have since a new bike doesn't ship with a chain intact), then heck maybe it's the LBS that didn't put the chain together correctly!


 Many things are possible. Proving it is not very likely.


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## FBinNY (Jan 24, 2009)

And there you have it.

It's either a chain that broke because it wasn't closed correctly, which would be the mechanic's fault
OR
it's a defective derailleur that broke which would be a product defect and the sellers responsibility.

Of course, this is just speculation based on a photo of the end result, and it would take an expert looking at the bike in the flesh to have any hope of a better answer. Even then maybe it could be impossible to know for sure.

Unfortunately you now have the scenario I alluded to earlier, where each will say it's the other guy's fault, leaving you stuck in the middle. I hope I'm wrong and you have a decent outcome, but if not, consider this an object lesson in the dangers of shared responsibility, or what happens when you buy from the net and have the service done locally.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

If you could post more pics from different angles, it would greatly help in diagnosing it.

There's too much going on to see what could have been the cuase from just that photo.


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## Dan333sp (Aug 17, 2010)

My brother has a Motobecane Vent Noir he bought off BD a year ago, which might be the same as your bike based on the wheel and frame color you have there. He also had a catastrophic rear derailleur failure while under light load, his mechanic told him it was something to do with the spring inside the der. parallelogram detaching or something like that. Ultimately, he had to buy a new RD, and has had no trouble since. He never thought to contact BD, but considering it might have been the same failure you had on the same bike, it might be something they should know about.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

Is it an ultegra chain? There was a batch of defective ultegra chains that had the plates split. That could definitely have caused this problem.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

First, I wouldn't waste a LOT of time getting this sorted out because the path of least resistance might be to simply buy a new derailleur, chain and hanger and have them all installed.

I wonder about "installation"... don't the bikes come with the rear derailleur,chain and crank installed?

If not, I would talk to the installer and see if they'll quickly and easily agree to replace the broken parts.

I'd also contact BD immediately and tell them what happened. They may quickly and easily agree to provide the 3 broken parts and ship them to you.

But I'd give each a quick stab, but if neither agree quickly and easily to get it done, just buy the parts yourself and have the same or different bike shop install them if you aren't set up to do it yourself... and get back on the road.

Even assuming that the bike shop and BD are both acting in good faith, I can see that there's real uncertainty as to where the defect lies and who is responsible. We can all speculate and maybe one or the other will feel differently and you'll be good to go, but without some serious analysis of the parts and speculation I wouldn't be surprised if reasonable people could interpret and assign blame differently. 

Sometimes you just have to take care of business and forget about absolute fairness. Assuming this is a fairly low level component group, I'll bet $50 or $75 in parts and an hour labor will get you back in business. And maybe the shop will even install the parts for free as a gesture to your bad luck? Maybe one or the other will give you the parts at a discount or wholesale price as a gesture too. Either of those scenarios would be absolutely fine if it were me. But I wouldn't be broken hearted if neither could offer full restitution, and I'd just swallow and look at it as a cost of the risk you take when you buy deep discounted items over the net. No fraud, just a risk and sometimes it doesn't work out perfectly.


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## rover19 (Feb 17, 2012)

Thanks to everyone for chiming in. Here's some more info and answers to your questions.



FBinNY said:


> ...It's either a chain that broke because it wasn't closed correctly, which would be the mechanic's fault
> OR
> it's a defective derailleur that broke which would be a product defect and the sellers responsibility.....





Camilo said:


> I wonder about "installation"... don't the bikes come with the rear derailleur,chain and crank installed?


The chain came pre-installed on the bike. 



Dan333sp said:


> My brother has a Motobecane Vent Noir he bought off BD a year ago, which might be the same as your bike based on the wheel and frame color you have there. He also had a catastrophic rear derailleur failure while under light load, his mechanic told him it was something to do with the spring inside the der. diamond detaching or something like that. Ultimately, he had to buy a new RD, and has had no trouble since. He never thought to contact BD, but considering it might have been the same failure you had on the same bike, it might be something they should know about.


It's a Windsor Knight. the rear derailleur is an Ultegra 6700. I'm planning on contacting BD; just wanted to get some second opinions. 



DrSmile said:


> Is it an ultegra chain? There was a batch of defective ultegra chains that had the plates split. That could definitely have caused this problem.


It's a Shimano 5600 chain - so a 105, I believe. 



tlg said:


> If you could post more pics from different angles, it would greatly help in diagnosing it.
> 
> There's too much going on to see what could have been the cuase from just that photo.


More pictures posted. You can see the gnarled chain, the destroyed cage, and where the derailleur broke in the new pics.










Here's a gallery with several more angles:
Bike+failure - Imgur

Thanks again to everyone for the help.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

rover19 said:


> Here's a gallery with several more angles:
> Bike+failure - Imgur
> 
> Thanks again to everyone for the help.


Ok, I think I have a pretty good theory. One that would be easy to verify. Is/was your chain in the large chain ring? And were you shifting in the middle/top of your cassette?

If your chain is too short, and you shift into your big/big gear combinations, it will stretch out your derailluer. And that's kinda what it looks like in your pics.

This is what it would've looked like prior to getting too tight and snapping your derailleur.









As you can see, if this chain were shorter, it would tear the derailleur apart trying to get into this combination. This is why you should never use the big/big combination. Even if you think your chain is correct.

Now the part about this being easy to verify. Any good mechanic could verify this in a few minutes. How well do you trust your LBS? If they don't want to take responsibility they'll just say it was fine. Perhaps have another bike shop check it out?


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## FBinNY (Jan 24, 2009)

tlg said:


> Ok, I think I have a pretty good theory. One that would be easy to verify. Is/was your chain in the large chain ring? And were you shifting in the middle/top of your cassette?
> 
> If your chain is too short, and you shift into your big/big gear combinations, it will stretch out your derailluer. And that's kinda what it looks like in your pics.


Derailleurs are designed to work with the chain as short as 1" longer than the shortest chain that can loop the big/big combination. The idler pulley can rise high enough clear the almost straight lower loop prevent RD damage riding big/big. 

Also when a chain is too short to loop a gear combination it's rarely the chain that loses. Generally it's the axle that bends, or the chainring that collapses.

I would hope that both the OEM spec and the assembling mechanic would provide for a chain that isn't too short. 

BTW- the reason not to ride big/big, has little to do with then RD. It's because running the chain on mis-aligned sprockets is less efficient, and increases chain and sprocket wear. It isn't a black and white issue of not being able to ride big/big, but a matter of avoiding doing it too much.


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## bmach (Apr 13, 2011)

I would go back to the LBS tell them what happened and if they say it is BDs fault then just buy a RD have them put it on. The call BD tell them what happened. While this is going you can get back to riding.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

FBinNY said:


> Derailleurs are designed to work with the chain as short as 1" longer than the shortest chain that can loop the big/big combination.


As I said, a chain that is too short.. hence shorter than 1" longer.



> Also when a chain is too short to loop a gear combination it's rarely the chain that loses.


 The chain didn't lose. The derailleur did. It's broken. The chain is only bent, likely caused by the failed deraileur. The derailleur will lose before an axle or chainring failure. 



> I would hope that both the OEM spec and the assembling mechanic would provide for a chain that isn't too short.


There's lots of things we can hope would happen. But humans make mistakes.



> BTW- the reason not to ride big/big, has little to do with then RD. It's because running the chain on mis-aligned sprockets is less efficient, and increases chain and sprocket wear.


That is the case with a properly sized chain. If you have a chain which is too short, it WILL cause damage.

*Tell Sheldon Brown he's wrong!* 
If the chain is too short, it will be at risk for* jamming and possibly ruining the rear derailer if you accidentally shift into the large-large combination*. Never run with a chain that is too short, except in an emergency.
http://sheldonbrown.com/


Bicycle Chain is Too Short?
On the flip side, if the chain is too short, and you shift into the large-large combination you take the risk of sucking the rear derailleur into the sprocket and damaging both chain and cog. If the rear derailleur straightens out fully when on the large gear and chainring, you have a clear indication that the chain is too short.
Bicycle Chain Length:How to Get The Right Chain Length For Your Gear Setup


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## FBinNY (Jan 24, 2009)

As I said, I'd expect that both the OEM, and the mechanic would be able to properly measure a chain, but if not, it still wouldn't have pulled off the RD. The idler cage has enough travel for the lower pulley to swing above the straight line between the bottom of the sprockets. 

If you go back to the bike whose picture you posted, you'll see that there's enough swing for the RD to not be damaged by a straight lower loop. 

So without a bent axle or other clear evidence of a too-short chain, it doesn't make sense to look in that direction. In any case the chain is still there for the OP or anyone else to see if it can loop big/big with an inch to spare.

As for arguing with Mr. Brown, that isn't possible anymore, but he and I had plenty of good conversations when he was still alive. 

A few others have given the OP good advice. Go back to the shop, let them look at it, and see if they'll either warranty it, or at least offer a "bad break" price. Then see if BD steps up and offers any compensation.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

FBinNY said:


> As I said, I'd expect that both the OEM, and the mechanic would be able to properly measure a chain,


OEM wouldn't have sized the chain. The LBS would have when they installed it. Just because you expect they'd do it properly doesn't mean people can't make a mistake.



> but if not, it still wouldn't have pulled off the RD.


 You're plain wrong. Reality and Sheldon Brown say so.



> The idler cage has enough travel for the lower pulley to swing above the straight line between the bottom of the sprockets.


Not if the chain is too short.



> If you go back to the bike whose picture you posted, you'll see that there's enough swing for the RD to not be damaged by a straight lower loop.


Because.... that chain is NOT too short. Key words... not too short. I'm talking about a chain that is TOO short. Take 2" off that chain and I guarantee you it would not look that way. I dare you to try it on your bike. :thumbsup:



> So without a bent axle or other clear evidence of a too-short chain, it doesn't make sense to look in that direction.


Hence why I said it would be VERY easy to verify if the chain is too short. Makes complete sense to check it out.


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## JacksonDodge (Mar 26, 2006)

aclinjury said:


> Well if the LBS assembled the chain (they must have since a new bike doesn't ship with a chain intact), then heck maybe it's the LBS that didn't put the chain together correctly!


That's incorrect. Most complete bikes ship with the chains installed.


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## JacksonDodge (Mar 26, 2006)

tlg said:


> OEM wouldn't have sized the chain. The LBS would have when they installed it. Just because you expect they'd do it properly doesn't mean people can't make a mistake.


The chain most likely was installed at the factory. Very few complete bikes ship without chains installed.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

JacksonDodge said:


> That's incorrect. Most complete bikes ship with the chains installed.





JacksonDodge said:


> The chain most likely was installed at the factory. Very few complete bikes ship without chains installed.


You didn't read the thread. It is the case here since as the OP said.....

"I bought a bike from Bikesdirect a few weeks ago, had it built by my local bike shop"


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## JacksonDodge (Mar 26, 2006)

tlg said:


> You didn't read the thread. It is the case here since as the OP said.....
> 
> "I bought a bike from Bikesdirect a few weeks ago, had it built by my local bike shop"


Neither did you.




rover19 said:


> Thanks to everyone for chiming in. Here's some more info and answers to your questions.
> 
> The chain came pre-installed on the bike.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

aclinjury said:


> which is more likely? a broken RD causing the chain to break? or a broken chain causing the RD to break??
> 
> I'm thinking a broken chain causing RD to break. Well if the LBS assembled the chain (they must have since a new bike doesn't ship with a chain intact), then heck maybe it's the LBS that didn't put the chain together correctly!


When looking at the BD assembly instructions on their web site, they don't mention anything about putting the chain together thus one would assume it comes already assembled. After pondering this for awhile I called my friend who bought a Motobecane TI bike and he verified that his bike came with the chain assembled. I wonder if all come that way? Maybe the poster can chime in if his chain came assembled.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

froze said:


> After pondering this for awhile I called my friend who bought a Motobecane TI bike and he verified that his bike came with the chain assembled. I wonder if all come that way? Maybe the poster can chime in if his chain came assembled.


Even if that is the case, if the OP paid a LBS to professionally assemble his bike, I'd hope they would've thoroughly checked it out.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

froze said:


> I wonder if all come that way?


Been pulling brand-new bikes out of shipping boxes and putting them together for quite some time now. So far, every single one had the chain installed. I have to say that every once in a while I come across a stiff link. That, in my mind, could mean improper connection of the ends.


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## rover19 (Feb 17, 2012)

As I said before, the chain was already installed on the bike when it arrived. 

"Assembly" at my LBS more or less consisted of putting on the handlebars, tightening everything up, adjusting derailleurs, and then performing a basic fitting.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

rover19 said:


> "Assembly" at my LBS more or less consisted of putting on the handlebars, tightening everything up, adjusting derailleurs, and then performing a basic fitting.


Just curious: did the bike have a spoke protector ("dork disk") when it arrived and if it did, did the bike shop remove it? If they did remove it, was it at your request or not? I ask because I'm never quite sure if I should remove these things or not with new bikes.


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## rover19 (Feb 17, 2012)

wim said:


> Just curious: did the bike have a spoke protector ("dork disk") when it arrived and if it did, did the bike shop remove it? If they did remove it, was it at your request or not? I ask because I'm never quite sure if I should remove these things or not with new bikes.


It arrived from the factory without one.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

wim said:


> Been pulling brand-new bikes out of shipping boxes and putting them together for quite some time now. So far, every single one had the chain installed. I have to say that every once in a while I come across a stiff link. That, in my mind, could mean improper connection of the ends.


I agree with your general statement; *most* bikes ship with the chain installed (and *all* BD bikes do).

Volagi ships with the chain not installed.

Cervelo ships with pretty much nothing installed (or did, at least, back when I worked for a Cervelo dealer)

Colnago used to ship unassembled - not sure about now.

Litespeed also shipped unassembled.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

rover19 said:


> It arrived from the factory without one.


Thanks.

Looking at the photo you posted in post #16, it appears that the chain broke at the place where it was joined at the factory (or the bike shop if they shortened it). I say that because the pin face at the break looks different than the other pin faces in the chain. This generally is the mark of the replacement pin with which you join a Shimano chain. Not seeing the entire chain and the photo not being a close-up of that area, I can't be 100% sure about this.

/w


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## rover19 (Feb 17, 2012)

I just sent an email to Bikesdirect. My hopes aren't exactly high. 

What's really frustrating is that I know something simply failed. I was in the middle of both the chainring and the cassette and hadn't shifted in blocks. Something on the bike simply broke. 

I have a feeling that, as others have suggested, the LBS and BD will simply point fingers at each other, and I'll end up having to eat the cost of a derailleur, a chain, and labor.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

wim said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Looking at the photo you posted in post #16, it appears that the chain broke at the place where it was joined at the factory (or the bike shop if they shortened it). I say that because the pin face at the break looks different than the other pin faces in the chain. This generally is the mark of the replacement pin with which you join a Shimano chain. Not seeing the entire chain and the photo not being a close-up of that area, I can't be 100% sure about this.
> 
> /w


I agree. This is the second BD bike we've seen with this failure so far.

(Have I ever mentioned that I HATE Shimano's 'pin" idea? I usually replace them with Missing Links.)


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## rover19 (Feb 17, 2012)

PlatyPius said:


> I agree. This is the second BD bike we've seen with this failure so far.


I assume you're referring to this post, which I hadn't seen before:
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/mo...t-review-good-deal-ripoff-updated-248870.html

Looks strikingly similar. Edit: except for the part where he admits that he never had his bike adjusted and didn't ever look to see if his hanger was bent. The damage, and where it broke, certainly look similar.


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## FBinNY (Jan 24, 2009)

rover19 said:


> I just sent an email to Bikesdirect. My hopes aren't exactly high.
> ...
> 
> I have a feeling that, as others have suggested, the LBS and BD will simply point fingers at each other, and I'll end up having to eat the cost of a derailleur, a chain, and labor.


I handled service and warranty problems for a large shop way back in the bronze age. JRA issues like yours weren't all that rare, and we were often caught by what I call the "last man to touch it" rule. That's one reason we absolutely hated installing expensive items we didn't sell.

One bit of advice I can offer which may help depending on the temperament of the shop, is to go there with an open mind, and ask for help, rather than trying to affix blame. I always hated taking advantage of anyone's bad luck, and was always willing to cut a break, or find a way to soften the blow to anyone who had your kind of incident. 

The key was how they approached me, if they asked for help they got it. If they came in blaming us, and demanding what I felt was an unwarranted freebie, with no willingness to seek common ground, they didn't fare as well. I knew how to say NO long before Nancy Reagan suggested it.

If I were (but I'm not) the shops service manager, I'd sell you the needed parts discounted and provide the labor for free in the hopes of making a future customer out of you.

Good luck


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## rover19 (Feb 17, 2012)

Here's the response I got from BD:

"... It looks like that one link in your chain may have been the culprit. I only saw one picture in that link. Can you send me a few more so I can see the derailleur from the rear also? I need to see what components need to be replaced. It looks like the chain, hanger, and rear derailleur all need to be replaced but I want to be sure so I can send it all at once."

Fingers crossed, but it's certainly looking good.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

rover19 said:


> Here's the response I got from BD:
> 
> "... It looks like that one link in your chain may have been the culprit. I only saw one picture in that link. Can you send me a few more so I can see the derailleur from the rear also? I need to see what components need to be replaced. It looks like the chain, hanger, and rear derailleur all need to be replaced but I want to be sure so I can send it all at once."


Was that basically all that was in the email? Sure sounds like they're taking responsibility. If so, my opinion of BD has got a little better.


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## rover19 (Feb 17, 2012)

tlg said:


> Was that basically all that was in the email? Sure sounds like they're taking responsibility. If so, my opinion of BD has got a little better.


I cut out the first line where he said, "I'll be glad to help you with this", but otherwise, that's the email in its entirety.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

rover19 said:


> I cut out the first line where he said, "I'll be glad to help you with this", but otherwise, that's the email in its entirety.


Keep us posted. IF BD comes thru, then that's great news, and you'll need to write a glowing review for them.


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## rover19 (Feb 17, 2012)

Well, bikesdirect came through. Here's the email I just received:



> Thanks for the additional pictures. I'm sending you a new chain, hanger, and rear Ultegra derailleur for your Knight today via USPS Priority Mail and your tracking # is [_snip_]....
> 
> I didn't really see any damage to your spokes in the pictures. I'm sure the damage to them is probably just cosmetic, too. I do not stock spokes but BikeIsland.com - Bicycle Parts, Accessories and Clothing at Affordable Prices with Free Shipping sells spokes for Vuelta wheels if any of yours need to be replaced.
> BikeIsland.com
> ...


I guess I'm only out the labor costs in the end. Oh, and some cosmetic damage to the frame, and potentially $8 to replace a few spokes. Not bad...


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

rover19 said:


> I guess I'm only out the labor costs in the end. Oh, and some cosmetic damage to the frame, and potentially $8 to replace a few spokes. Not bad...


I think you made out quite well. Most companies don't provide labor for warranty work. Hopefully your LBS will be reasonable with installing them. 
Make sure they give it a look over to make sure everything is good.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

wim said:


> Been pulling brand-new bikes out of shipping boxes and putting them together for quite some time now. So far, every single one had the chain installed. I have to say that every once in a while I come across a stiff link. That, in my mind, could mean improper connection of the ends.



Right, and that's why the cost of any repairs should be covered by BD because it was a product failure covered by the year warranty on components. Assuming of course it was indeed the chain; even if the derailleur pin sheared it too would have to be covered by the warranty. But if the cost of the repair was only $8 then I wouldn't even hassle contacting BD.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

rover19 said:


> Well, bikesdirect came through. Here's the email I just received:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I'm only out the labor costs in the end. Oh, and some cosmetic damage to the frame, and potentially $8 to replace a few spokes. Not bad...


Glad that Mike/BD is going to take care of you.

For the record, though, Bike Island *IS* Bikes Direct. So technically, they DO stock spokes for Vuelta wheels. Just a minor nit-picky thing, though.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

froze said:


> Right, and that's why the cost of any repairs should be covered by BD because it was a product failure covered by the year warranty on components.


Per BD, the warranty is from the manufacturer (Motobecane). According to their warranty:
THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER: ....Labor charges for part replacement or changeover. 

Most companies do not include labor in their warranties. This is pretty standard practice.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

tlg said:


> Per BD, the warranty is from the manufacturer (Motobecane). According to their warranty:
> THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER: ....Labor charges for part replacement or changeover.
> 
> Most companies do not include labor in their warranties. This is pretty standard practice.



There is no such manufacturer as "Motobecane USA". Bike Direct has the license to use the name in the US. The manufacturer is actually Ideal (Fuji) or Kinesis.

ie: Bikes Direct *IS* Motobecane, Windsor, Mercier, et al.


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## rover19 (Feb 17, 2012)

froze said:


> Right, and that's why the cost of any repairs should be covered by BD because it was a product failure covered by the year warranty on components. Assuming of course it was indeed the chain; even if the derailleur pin sheared it too would have to be covered by the warranty. But if the cost of the repair was only $8 then I wouldn't even hassle contacting BD.


$8 is the cost of 4 new spokes from bikeisland. Hopefully my LBS will go easy on me for labor...


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

PlatyPius said:


> There is no such manufacturer as "Motobecane USA". Bike Direct has the license to use the name in the US. The manufacturer is actually Ideal (Fuji) or Kinesis.
> 
> ie: Bikes Direct *IS* Motobecane, Windsor, Mercier, et al.


Motobecane is manufactured in Taiwan and distributed through BD in the USA. 
BD is not the manufacturer. 

Which is all just semantics. Call BD and ask for their warranty and they're going to tell you that their bikes are covered under the manufacturer warranty. And they'll point you to:
Motobecane USA | Warranty

And that warranty specifically states Labor Not Included.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

tlg said:


> Motobecane is manufactured in Taiwan and distributed through BD in the USA.
> BD is not the manufacturer.


Which is kinda what I said.
BD is the only seller of Motobecane in the US... because they ARE Motobecane. Any Motobecanes outside of the US are a different company. Just as Windsor UK is completely different from Windsor US. Bikes Direct owns the Motobecane name in the US. In other words, they're the same company. If you read my post again Sparky, you'll see that I never said BD was the manufacturer. I said that BD bikes are manufactured by Ideal (Fuji) or Kinesis, depending on model. Several Motobecane models actually ARE Fuji models, such as the Fuji Newest 1.0-4.0.

The point I was making was that saying that BD referred the customer to Motobecane's warranty is amusing since BD and Motobecane (US) are the same company.


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## cohiba7777 (Jul 6, 2006)

This may sound simplistic - but - was the chain routed properly through the derailleur? I had an LBS in NYC improperly route a chain once and I snapped the derailleur after being on the bike for about 5 minutes. It does happen -


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

PlatyPius said:


> If you read my post again Sparky, you'll see that I never said BD was the manufacturer. I said that BD bikes are manufactured by Ideal (Fuji) or Kinesis, depending on model.


Sparky? Seriously? 
I never said or implied that you said it. I was adding to your post. BD is not the manufacturer. We both agree to that. They are made in Taiwan. That's a fact.



> The point I was making was that saying that BD referred the customer to Motobecane's warranty is amusing since BD and Motobecane (US) are the same company


The point I was making (and what I said) is "Per BD, the warranty is from the manufacturer". Which is true, right on their website. 

I was pointing out the semantics and deception of BD. And you're arguing with me... yet you agree. :mad2:


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

tlg said:


> Sparky? Seriously?
> I never said or implied that you said it. I was adding to your post. BD is not the manufacturer. We both agree to that. They are made in Taiwan. That's a fact.


When you get as old, grumpy, and forgetful as I am, everyone is Sparky. For instance, I have 4 Sparkys who work here at the shop at various times.


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

Good for BD. That is good customer support.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

PlatyPius said:


> When you get as old, grumpy, and forgetful as I am, everyone is Sparky. For instance, I have 4 Sparkys who work here at the shop at various times.


I can relate to that. To the oldest guy in the shop here, everyone is "kiddo." He's over 70, so with me just being 70, I''m "kiddo" as well.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

I really think this is an awesome result. Next step is to pay the bike shop a fair price to install the new parts and fully inspect the parts, including the hanger alignment, chain and derailleur installation. I'd also ask them (and be willing to pay for) a complete stem to stern inspection of all the parts, cables, etc. Again, pay them a fair price so they can feel comfortable doing what's needed to be able to back it up if there's further problems.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I guess what I can conclude from this is that BD does take care of their customers after the sale in the event of a warranty problem. This fast and adequate response makes me all the more sure of buying one of their TI road bikes that I've been contemplating.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Camilo said:


> Next step is to pay the bike shop a fair price to install the new parts and fully inspect the parts, including the hanger alignment, chain and derailleur installation. .


And as suggested by FBinNY earlier, have the chain installed with one of those snap links. The Shimano replacement pin works, but there's absolutely no margin for error with 10-speed chains during installation.


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## rover19 (Feb 17, 2012)

Camilo said:


> I really think this is an awesome result. Next step is to pay the bike shop a fair price to install the new parts and fully inspect the parts, including the hanger alignment, chain and derailleur installation. I'd also ask them (and be willing to pay for) a complete stem to stern inspection of all the parts, cables, etc. Again, pay them a fair price so they can feel comfortable doing what's needed to be able to back it up if there's further problems.


Just like I did the first time around...


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## Al1943 (Jun 23, 2003)

wim said:


> I have to say that every once in a while I come across a stiff link. That, in my mind, could mean improper connection of the ends.


I have seen a derailleur completely twisted off of a new bike because a tight chain link failed to run through the derailleur. The dropout plate pulled out of the chainstay. The frame had to go back to the factory.


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