# Tour de France - Armstrong demands Astana backing



## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Good read form EuroSport



> "I am not okay with that theory saying there can be only one team leader," said Armstrong. "I have won seven Tours de France - I will have to be counted in."


http://eurosport.yahoo.com/06072009/58/tour-de-france-armstrong-demands-astana-backing.html


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Battle is joined, the phoney war is over. Armstrong and Contador are going head to head in a fight to the death. Evans (and possibly Sastre) could be the major beneficiary should they cancel each other out. 
BUT: Did Armstrong's opportunistic move today show his hand a little too early? If I was him, I would have kept below the radar for a little longer. There seems no reason for LL, Kloden or AC to ride their hearts out in tomorrow's TTT now - the last thing they want is LA in Yellow.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

*Great Quote from Lance - Totally True*

"Whenever you see a team lined up at the front like that, you have to pay attention," Armstrong added. "You know what the wind is doing, and you see that a turn is coming up, so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that you have to go to the front."


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## turbogrover (Jan 1, 2006)

albert owen said:


> Battle is joined, the phoney war is over. Armstrong and Contador are going head to head in a fight to the death. Evans (and possibly Sastre) could be the major beneficiary should they cancel each other out.
> BUT: Did Armstrong's opportunistic move today show his hand a little too early? If I was him, I would have kept below the radar for a little longer. There seems no reason for LL, Kloden or AC to ride their hearts out in tomorrow's TTT now - the last thing they want is LA in Yellow.


Why wouldn't they? They'll all make more money with Armstrong in Yellow.
If they win the TTT, and put time on the rest of the field, everybody wins, and no one will lose any time on Armstrong. Do you really think Armstrong will keep up with Contador on any major climbs? I don't.


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## btinder (Aug 25, 2007)

albert owen said:


> Battle is joined, the phoney war is over. Armstrong and Contador are going head to head in a fight to the death. Evans (and possibly Sastre) could be the major beneficiary should they cancel each other out.
> BUT: Did Armstrong's opportunistic move today show his hand a little too early? If I was him, I would have kept below the radar for a little longer. There seems no reason for LL, Kloden or AC to ride their hearts out in tomorrow's TTT now - the last thing they want is LA in Yellow.


I see your reasoning but disagree. The TTT is an opportunity for Contador to put minutes into Evans, the Schlecks, Sastre, etc., who won't be anywhere near Astana at the end of tomorrow's stage. Contador will want that time even if it means bumping Lance into the yellow jersey.

Besides, I think Levi would like to see Lance in the MJ, and who knows where Kloden stands in this mostly-hyped Contador/Lance feud. Levi, Contador, Kloden, and Lance are going all out tomorrow, you can be assured of that.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

albert owen said:


> Did Armstrong's opportunistic move today show his hand a little too early? If I was him, I would have kept below the radar for a little longer. There seems no reason for LL, Kloden or AC to ride their hearts out in tomorrow's TTT now - the last thing they want is LA in Yellow.


1. Why stay under the radar? Whenever you have an opportunity to take out 30 seconds against your rivals -- read, Evans, Saste, Schleck, Menchov and other non-Astana GC hopefuls -- you stick the knife in and do it before they do it to you, especially because Lance will lose chunks of time on the climbs against them.

2. Regarding the TTT, Astana is going to ride extremely hard, all of them. Their morale is sky high right now -- they got 3 guys into a good break and the other 6 didn't have to do a lick of work, making the other GC teams work.


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

fornaca68 said:


> "Whenever you see a team lined up at the front like that, you have to pay attention," Armstrong added. "You know what the wind is doing, and you see that a turn is coming up, so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that you have to go to the front."


Except he wasn't really paying attention, if you watch the replay Popo had to wave to him to get him to join the break.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Lance didn't "take" time today, so much as all the others lost time. Columbia taking time away from virtually the entire Tour de France Peloton would've been the story today if it weren't for the fictional Lance vs. Contador story the media is pushing.


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## Tugboat (Jul 17, 2006)

Why the issue that some people have with Armstrong wearing yellow so early in the race even if Contador is the "leader" at Astana? If anything it's a blessing that some of the pressure is taken off AC if it sits on a team mate's shoulders. I doubt that Astana will seriously defend it anyway (assuming that they win the TTT with enough margin over Saxo Bank) until at least the Pyrenees.

Look at Saxo Bank's example from last year... Schleck in the yellow and with all of the focus turned to him there was perhaps less of an expectation that the plan had always been for Sastre to take it over if he could (and he did) on Alpe d'Huez.


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## rward325 (Sep 22, 2008)

davidka said:


> Lance didn't "take" time today, so much as all the others lost time. Columbia taking time away from virtually the entire Tour de France Peloton would've been the story today if it weren't for the fictional Lance vs. Contador story the media is pushing.


I think I like this slant on things the beast.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

btinder said:


> I see your reasoning but disagree. The TTT is an opportunity for Contador to put minutes into Evans, the Schlecks, Sastre, etc., who won't be anywhere near Astana at the end of tomorrow's stage. Contador will want that time even if it means bumping Lance into the yellow jersey.
> 
> Besides, I think Levi would like to see Lance in the MJ, and who knows where Kloden stands in this mostly-hyped Contador/Lance feud. Levi, Contador, Kloden, and Lance are going all out tomorrow, you can be assured of that.


I doubt that - Saxo is stacked with excellent time trial riders. Sastre and Evans have more to fear. It's a tall order to take 40 seconds out of Saxo. And it would be Contador's worst nightmare. He'd have a hard time attacking LA in yellow and would have to follow other riders.


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## TmaxR (Aug 31, 2008)

I think until it is made apparent that Lance has no chance of challenging in the mountains, he deserves the deference and respect due a 7 time champion. Contador has to prove he's the better man before he can lay sole claim to the mantle of leader. You can't expect one of, if not THE greatest tour riders ever to quietly play second fiddle.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

Tugboat said:


> Why the issue that some people have with Armstrong wearing yellow so early in the race even if Contador is the "leader" at Astana? If anything it's a blessing that some of the pressure is taken off AC if it sits on a team mate's shoulders.


I agree in general, but it does become the problem to some extent if the team decides to defend the jersey, wasting energy. I think confusion as to who the real Astana leader is could benefit Contador. Assuming of course that some TdF riders are buying into this fictitious Armstrong-Contador media hype.


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## ti-triodes (Aug 14, 2006)

It'll be nice to see the old guy in yellow again, at least till they get to the mountains.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

What I love is that everybody has already written off Lance in the mountains, without seeing what he can do.

By the end of the Giro he was climbing very well and has lost weight since then (reported to be lighter than any other tour he has competed in)...which means he came in ready for the mountains) and at least held his power, if not gained a bit. His form is on right now and he will likely get stronger as the tour goes on.

Only time will tell...but I for one, won't write him off unitl Contador or some other racer rides him off their wheel in the climbs. Until then...he's every bit as much of a threat in the mountains, if not more, than any other rider in the peloton. He won all of his tours in the mountains, it's not like he doesn't know what he's doing....and ne wants Ventoux...BAD!!!


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## atimido (Jun 17, 2009)

Wookiebiker said:


> What I love is that everybody has already written off Lance in the mountains, without seeing what he can do.



Who is everybody? :hand:


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

atimido said:


> Who is everybody? :hand:


OK...Not everybody, but seems to be the "Vast Majority" or maybe it's just the "Lance Haters" hoping he falls flat?


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## ti-triodes (Aug 14, 2006)

Wookiebiker said:


> OK...Not everybody, but seems to be the "Vast Majority" or maybe it's just the "Lance Haters" hoping he falls flat?



I'm not a Lance hater, but I'm not optimistic about a 38 yr. old Lance vs. a 26 yr. old Contador. A 26 yr. old Lance vs. a 26 yr. old Contador is another story. Alberto could go home right now.  


Having said that, I would never discount Armstrong when he's motivated.


Gonna be a great race!!!!!! :thumbsup:


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

albert owen said:


> Battle is joined, the phoney war is over. Armstrong and Contador are going head to head in a fight to the death. Evans (and possibly Sastre) could be the major beneficiary should they cancel each other out.
> BUT: Did Armstrong's opportunistic move today show his hand a little too early? If I was him, I would have kept below the radar for a little longer. There seems no reason for LL, Kloden or AC to ride their hearts out in tomorrow's TTT now - the last thing they want is LA in Yellow.


How exactly would they cancel each other out? What Armstrong did today can hardly be considered a "move"... more like he was simply where he should have been; the same place Contador should have been but wasn't. The notion that the whole Astana team won't do their best in the TTT is nonsense.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

ti-triodes said:


> I'm not a Lance hater, but I'm not optimistic about a 38 yr. old Lance vs. a 26 yr. old Contador. A 26 yr. old Lance vs. a 26 yr. old Contador is another story. Alberto could go home right now.
> 
> 
> Having said that, I would never discount Armstrong when he's motivated.
> ...



26 yr. old Lance was still recovering from cancer.


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## Trevor! (Feb 28, 2004)

Wookiebiker said:


> What I love is that everybody has already written off Lance in the mountains, without seeing what he can do.
> 
> By the end of the Giro he was climbing very well and has lost weight since then (reported to be lighter than any other tour he has competed in)...which means he came in ready for the mountains) and at least held his power, if not gained a bit. His form is on right now and he will likely get stronger as the tour goes on.
> 
> Only time will tell...but I for one, won't write him off unitl Contador or some other racer rides him off their wheel in the climbs. Until then...he's every bit as much of a threat in the mountains, if not more, than any other rider in the peloton. He won all of his tours in the mountains, it's not like he doesn't know what he's doing....and ne wants Ventoux...BAD!!!


Amen!


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## harlond (May 30, 2005)

stevesbike said:


> I doubt that - Saxo is stacked with excellent time trial riders. Sastre and Evans have more to fear. It's a tall order to take 40 seconds out of Saxo. And it would be Contador's worst nightmare. He'd have a hard time attacking LA in yellow and would have to follow other riders.


Bruyneel said that he sent Popo and Zubeldia to help Columbia in order to keep Cancellara in yellow.


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

rocco said:


> 26 yr. old Lance was still recovering from cancer.


And a 24 year old Lance was a one day racer.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

MG537 said:


> And a 24 year old Lance was a one day racer.


And a 6 month old Lance couldn't walk.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

It's simple. Lance is a jerk because blah blah blah blah when it's CLEAR JB gave them the permission to turn up the gas.

Of course, nothing else matters right other than Lance still isn't classy etc etc.


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## shoegazer (Nov 2, 2007)

davidka said:


> Lance didn't "take" time today, so much as all the others lost time. Columbia taking time away from virtually the entire Tour de France Peloton would've been the story today if it weren't for the fictional Lance vs. Contador story the media is pushing.


+1
well put :thumbsup:


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

DIRT BOY said:


> Good read form EuroSport
> 
> 
> 
> http://eurosport.yahoo.com/06072009/58/tour-de-france-armstrong-demands-astana-backing.html


Lance is simple feeding the media maggots what they want to hear.

ASTANA was the only team that didn't need to chase. And Lance gained some time.

JOHANN IS totally BRILLIANT.

Cadel was even up there wasting energy.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

TmaxR said:


> I think until it is made apparent that Lance has no chance of challenging in the mountains, he deserves the deference and respect due a 7 time champion. Contador has to prove he's the better man before he can lay sole claim to the mantle of leader. You can't expect one of, if not THE greatest tour riders ever to quietly play second fiddle.


He hasn't won anything in 3 years......Contador has.

Neither of them deserves anything but the team taking advantage of whatever the situation delivers.

Stage 3's actions mean only one thing.....contador was napping and lanmce wasn't.

40 seconds means nothing to Contador if he climbs like he has in the last year.

Lance is the one that has to prove he can still climb.

It's only stage 3.......

Lots of racing to come.

Len


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

bas said:


> Lance is simple feeding the media maggots what they want to hear.
> 
> ASTANA was the only team that didn't need to chase. And Lance gained some time.
> 
> ...


Your right we should do away with the media then you could just read Lances twitter feed for all your "news"

Johann prolly had less to do with that than you think.

Astana didn't have to chase, true, they also had very very little reason to work in the break - had they sat in they would have still likely had Lance up on time and everyone fresh for the TTT.


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## FastFred (Aug 12, 2003)

Len J said:


> He hasn't won anything in 3 years......Contador has.
> 
> Neither of them deserves anything but the team taking advantage of whatever the situation delivers.
> 
> ...


Bingo! That just summs about it all up, very well-put.


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## babylou (Jul 13, 2008)

I double that! Whoever wins will have earned it and will be a champion for the ages.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

JohnHemlock said:


> Except he wasn't really paying attention, if you watch the replay Popo had to wave to him to get him to join the break.


No, I think this was well after the break established - Popo was waiving at Zubeldia (or someone else) to take a turn at the front.


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## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

babylou said:


> I double that! Whoever wins will have earned it and will be a champion for the ages.



So if Contador wins he will be champion for the ages vs a man that has won it 7 times in a row? Maybe Im getting you wrong


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## squadra (May 20, 2009)

*Not that i care...*

one way or t'other, but...... Contador needs to PAY ATTENTION!!!
LA-7 TDF wins
AC-1
LA OWNS the TDF. LA is a psychological monster, and pretty [email protected] fit too. AC should quit whining, and get learned up. 
"Waaaaahhhhhh, Lance didn't wait for me yesterday and took off with Hincapie":cryin: WTF? Two words: Pro Cyclist. Yer are, or yer ain't.
Lemond didn't pay attention to the schoolmaster, to his detriment.
What, did Contador think LA was going to just roll over? Whats naive in Espanol?
AC is young, and showing some humility towards The Master, well, he might just learn something.
Speaking of Pro Cyclists , whats with all thw whining about the TTT??? Yee gods, did they just realize what the course route was? Did anyone *THINK* to reconnoiter the route??  Mind boggling stuff.
Ok, i'm done


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## babylou (Jul 13, 2008)

Snakebitten said:


> So if Contador wins he will be champion for the ages vs a man that has won it 7 times in a row? Maybe Im getting you wrong


Think about this scenario: Armstrong stayed retired and Contador wins 7 TdF. There would be many doubters claiming Contador would have never won 7 TdF if Armstrong had not retired so early. With the current scenario if Contador bests Armstrong and wins 7 TdF there will be far less doubters.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

stevesbike said:


> I doubt that - Saxo is stacked with excellent time trial riders. Sastre and Evans have more to fear. It's a tall order to take 40 seconds out of Saxo. And it would be Contador's worst nightmare. He'd have a hard time attacking LA in yellow and would have to follow other riders.


Guess 40seconds isn't that hard after all eh?


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

roadhause said:


> "Ten minutes thirty five seconds at the bottom, thirty five seconds at the top."
> 
> no one takes lance in the mountains, not then and i'd have to speculate not now. we''ll see.


I don't get your first quote actually. Hmm?


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

squadra said:


> one way or t'other, but...... Contador needs to PAY ATTENTION!!!
> LA-7 TDF wins
> AC-1
> LA OWNS the TDF. LA is a psychological monster, and pretty [email protected] fit too. AC should quit whining, and get learned up.
> ...


I'll just ask: When did Contador complain about Lance taking time? No, really, I'm really asking here.

And after the TTT, here are some quotes:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=178820

where the link leads to Astana's website. Hardly seems like any complaining done here as well.


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## squadra (May 20, 2009)

*Ok, i'm embellishing things.....*

just a bit... 


> While Armstrong and Johan Bruyneel, the Astana director, played down the significance of the move - which saw Astana domestiques Yaroslav Popovych and Haimar Zubeldia on the front, driving the escape - Contador was clearly unhappy. To add to his woes, he had a near miss with a rival team car, which almost squashed him against a team bus as he made his way to the Astana compound.
> 
> "I don't want to express an opinion on the tactics of the team," said Contador. "I'll let everyone draw their own conclusions. In any case, the Tour is not going to be decided by what happened today. It was just another race situation."


Whining was a bit harsh, i'll admit:blush2:


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## Jim Nazium (Feb 3, 2004)

TmaxR said:


> I think until it is made apparent that Lance has no chance of challenging in the mountains, he deserves the deference and respect due a 7 time champion. Contador has to prove he's the better man before he can lay sole claim to the mantle of leader. You can't expect one of, if not THE greatest tour riders ever to quietly play second fiddle.


Let's see, we have:
Rider A, who is 26 and has won three grand tours in the last 2 years
Rider B, who is 38 and has been retired for the last three years

I'd say the burden of proof is on rider B.


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## TmaxR (Aug 31, 2008)

Jim Nazium said:


> Let's see, we have:
> Rider A, who is 26 and has won three grand tours in the last 2 years
> Rider B, who is 38 and has been retired for the last three years
> 
> I'd say the burden of proof is on rider B.


You fail to mention that rider B is Lance Armstrong, seven time Tour de France champion.
Maybe he is over the hill, but I'll wait to see that proven on the road before casting him on the dung heap of history.


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