# USDA file to UCI



## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Supposedly will be sent today. Over a thousand pages. The public will get a compressed version, 1-200 pages

levi, George, and others will have a statements. George's will be short and to the point, Levi's far longer and thoughtful. They confirm everything.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

USADA sends file to UCI, public will receive it later today

http://www.usada.org/cyclinginvestigationstatement.html

Statement from George



> For over 30 years I have dedicated my life to cycling. I have always been determined to compete at the highest level, in one of the most physically demanding sports. With hard work and success have come great blessings from the sport I love.
> 
> Teammates have become dear friends and I have worked hard to earn the respect of my competitors. I have been associated with managers and team officials whose professionalism is unparalleled. Wonderful fans have supported my family and me since I began this great journey. For all of this and more, I am truly grateful and proud.
> 
> ...


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## Sumguy1 (Apr 5, 2008)

So is this the beginning of the foretold SHTF? 
Or will there be more and greater SHTF?


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Over/Under on when the full thing is leaked? I am setting the line at 7 days.


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

Atta boy, George, you old doper, you. Take away his titles, if any, too? Frankly I'm ashamed of George. He didn't own up until he was caught. His excuse? Running around with the wrong crowd. Levi, too. I have lost my respect for them. :mad2: I sincerely hope the younger guys coming up will just race, and stay away from dope. Doc, thanks so much for the heads up. I vote "under" on SHTF.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Highlights from the USADA release



> The evidence of the US Postal Service Pro Cycling Team-run scheme is overwhelming and is in excess of 1000 pages, and includes sworn testimony from 26 people, including 15 riders with knowledge of the US Postal Service Team (USPS Team) and its participants’ doping activities





> The evidence also includes direct documentary evidence including financial payments, emails, scientific data and laboratory test results that further prove the use, possession and distribution of performance enhancing drugs by Lance Armstrong and confirm the disappointing truth about the deceptive activities of the USPS Team, a team that received tens of millions of American taxpayer dollars in funding.





> Together these different categories of eyewitness, documentary, first-hand, scientific, direct and circumstantial evidence reveal conclusive and undeniable proof





> The USPS Team doping conspiracy was professionally designed to groom and pressure athletes to use dangerous drugs, to evade detection, to ensure its secrecy and ultimately gain an unfair competitive advantage through superior doping practices.





> These eleven (11) teammates of Lance Armstrong, in alphabetical order, are Frankie Andreu, Michael Barry, Tom Danielson, Tyler Hamilton, George Hincapie, Floyd Landis, Levi Leipheimer, Stephen Swart, Christian Vande Velde, Jonathan Vaughters and David Zabriskie





> the active riders have been suspended and disqualified appropriately in line with the rules





> *Lance Armstrong was given the same opportunity to come forward and be part of the solution. He rejected it. *


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Coolhand said:


> Over/Under on when the full thing is leaked? I am setting the line at 7 days.


USADA will post a large portion of it on their site this afternoon.


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## covenant (May 21, 2002)

can't wait


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Supposedly will be sent today. Over a thousand pages. The public will get a compressed version, 1-200 pages
> 
> levi, George, and others will have a statements. George's will be short and to the point, Levi's far longer and thoughtful. They confirm everything.


... and Michael Barry? Will he have an addendum to the 2nd Edition of "Inside the Postal Bus"?


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> USADA will post a large portion of it on their site this afternoon.


Yeah, but the full monty will get leaked soon enough.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> These eleven (11) teammates of Lance Armstrong, in alphabetical order, are Frankie Andreu, Michael Barry, Tom Danielson, Tyler Hamilton, George Hincapie, Floyd Landis, Levi Leipheimer, Stephen Swart, Christian Vande Velde, Jonathan Vaughters and David Zabriskie


Hincapie claims he rode clean since 2006, when Lance v1.0 retired. Since then he hasn't performed nearly as competitively as he did before. Is this an empirical evidence of EPO/blood doping turning mules into race horses? We can make similar projections regarding Leipheimer and Zabriskie. The only one to buck this trend is Vande Velde with his 4th place finish in 2009. Does this suggest Vande Velde could have been a top GC champion if the field had been cleaner?


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## Chainstay (Mar 13, 2004)

David Loving said:


> Atta boy, George, you old doper, you. Take away his titles, if any, too? Frankly I'm ashamed of George. He didn't own up until he was caught.


For the truth to come out there must be reconciliation. I think your slurs are wrong.

I support this group of athletes. They are finally making the right choices


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

Nice job by all those that came clean. I hope they can sleep with a clear conscious now.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Interesting that this is already on the NYT and WSJ webpages. Considering that nobody cares, I mean:

Armstrong at center of doping conspiracy

USADA releases evidence against Armstrong


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## 3rensho (Aug 26, 2003)

I'm shocked that Lance would associate with characters like these. Man, they really pulled the wool over his eyes with all of that doping stuff they were doing for years and year without discovery. I'll bet he's really disappointed in them now. LIVESTRONG!


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## covenant (May 21, 2002)

Fireform said:


> Interesting that this is already on the NYT and WSJ webpages. Considering that nobody cares, I mean:
> 
> Armstrong at center of doping conspiracy
> 
> USADA releases evidence against Armstrong


News outlets have to care, it's sorta their job. It's not like people here at work are talking about it...cycling is sooooo below their radar.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

covenant said:


> News outlets have to care, it's sorta their job. It's not like people here at work are talking about it...cycling is sooooo below their radar.


You missed his point.



It's kind of an inside joke here.


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## covenant (May 21, 2002)

cda 455 said:


> You missed his point.
> 
> It's kind of an inside joke here.


I'm aware of the joke, just thought I'd take it seriously :thumbsup:


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

covenant said:


> I'm aware of the joke, just thought I'd take it seriously :thumbsup:


Ah!



Roger that  !


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

http://www.scribd.com/doc/109619079/Reasoned-Decision

Read it and weep.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

The Tedinator said:


> Reasoned Decision
> 
> Read it and weep.


Wow  !


I just started reading it.



Thanks for the link!


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

I know in an ideal world, it would be really neat if these 11 Postal riders had just "come clean" mid-CAREER right? Yeh right. I am not going to sit here and pretend that I know exactly what I would have done if confronted with doping as a POTENTIAL international pro cyclist. We have all heard the common story about dedicating ones' life to cycling and then a coach saying something to the effect of "hey, you can quit and go home today OR you can try these awesome vitamins that everyone who is pro uses today...."

Having said that, I don't like the way that some of them (ex Hincapie) are playing it off like they "DECIDED to come forward for the greater good of the sport" sorta thing.

In reality, most of those 11 team mates of Lance's came forward because it was the lesser of two evils: 1. Go ahead and testify and get minimal punishment
2. Fight, lie, get completely ruined and face harsher punishment Yeh, I would have gone for door #1

On the other hand, Lance was a bully. He tattled on TH for doping. He paid for forgivin failed tests etc etc. He did not come clean when given the chance...


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

orange_julius said:


> Hincapie claims he rode clean since 2006, when Lance v1.0 retired. Since then he hasn't performed nearly as competitively as he did before. Is this an empirical evidence of EPO/blood doping turning mules into race horses? We can make similar projections regarding Leipheimer and Zabriskie. The only one to buck this trend is Vande Velde with his 4th place finish in 2009. Does this suggest Vande Velde could have been a top GC champion if the field had been cleaner?


Or it suggests he was still doping. He's not come anywhere really close to that form since.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

rydbyk said:


> I know in an ideal world, it would be really neat if these 11 Postal riders had just "come clean" mid-CAREER right? Yeh right. I am not going to sit here and pretend that I know exactly what I would have done if confronted with doping as a POTENTIAL international pro cyclist. We have all heard the common story about dedicating ones' life to cycling and then a coach saying something to the effect of "hey, you can quit and go home today OR you can try these awesome vitamins that everyone who is pro uses today...."
> 
> Having said that, I don't like the way that some of them (ex Hincapie) are playing it off like they "DECIDED to come forward for the greater good of the sport" sorta thing.
> 
> ...


Nope. Not many decided to come forward of their own free will. They came forward because they had no choice. Once Landis and Hamilton came forward, and the US Attorney became interested, the Feds had the names of the others as potential witnesses. Many were served with a subpoena to appear before a Federal grand jury in the Central District of California. Riding on a team partially underwritten by US taxpayers had its bad side, apparently. Don't forget that this whole thing arose out of a criminal investigation into drug trafficking financed on the public dime.

Here's what lawyers tell clients who come running into their offices holding a grand jury subpoena. Once you are served, you must report at the date, time and place specified, and give testimony under oath. If you don't, you are subject to being arrested and hauled in there. Once you are there, unless the prosecutor asks you to waive the grant of immunity that you automatically receive (in which case he or she will call me and arrange for me to be there to advise you), you must testify. If you refuse to give testimony, you can and will be held in contempt, and sit in jail for as long as the grand jury remains empaneled. However, if you testify, and answer all questions truthfully, you can never be prosecuted on the basis of your testimony, nor can you be prosecuted if your testimony leads to additional evidence. The only way that you can face any future charges regarding your testimony is if you testify untruthfully, in which case they can charge you with perjury. So, it is in your legal interest to testify and answer any and all questions truthfully. I'm not concerned about any personal cost this may have, as my job is to advise you on, and protect, your legal interests. Only you can decide whether your personal cost will be so great that it's preferable to sit in jail for months under a contempt citation

Once that cat is out of the bag, and USADA takes over, having already given sworn testimony, the decision to co-operate with USADA and accept a reduced suspension is really a no brainer. Only George, and the rest of the witnesses, know in their heart of hearts the level of sincerity being displayed.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

You know the US often is accused of cronyism by the world, as in we like to protect "one of our own" versus doing something right. But this whole LA saga being handled by the USADA is honestly making me feel proud. Here is an American entity willing to bring down an American cyclist, and not just any American cyclist, but perhaps the most well-known and popular one of them all.

I hope France, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Germany and the rest of Europe can follow the USADA's lead and get rough with "one of their owns" too, especially Spain!


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## cmdrpiffle (Mar 28, 2006)

3rensho said:


> I'm shocked that Lance would associate with characters like these. Man, they really pulled the wool over his eyes with all of that doping stuff they were doing for years and year without discovery. I'll bet he's really disappointed in them now. LIVESTRONG!


Snort ! :thumbsup:

You owe me one new keyboard!


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## rockstar2083 (Aug 30, 2005)

Anybody else disappointed that Sheryl Crow was only mentioned once in the report and the Olsen twins were never in it?


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Wow, just scanned over the entire thing. HOLY SH!T! You can't make this stuff, up. For a while I believed lance was clean, then not sure but gave a bit of a doubt. Then I believed it, but did not think it was this in depth. I always thought he used many unnamed/experimental stuff to beat cancer and maybe still was for racing.

But this evidence is mote than over whelming and not something people make up to save their backsides.

Personally if I was the USDA, UCI, ASO everyone, i would ban everyone, the rats, riders, management, etc with LIFETIME punishments. They should have ZERO involvement with cycling.

Best thing LA could do now is come clean and take the ENTIRE system with him down. I mean everyone in cycling and every even organizer who KEW doping was happening and was paid off.

Now a new league for RIDERS can be started. Or we can just say who gives a rats butt and allowing doping like as its always been.

Oh, and Greg Lemond, your are NOT vindicated. I would LOVE to test his blood form back then to prove he was part of the game, as Hinault and everyone.

Doping has been a part of SPORTS since the caveman days. People has always cheated and used PEDs. If any of the cycling greats say they did not, they are FULL OF CRAP including EDDY!

I wish the LA Foundation nothing but the best. LA himself, just go away or speak the truth.


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

They are about as sincere as a client I had years ago who burglarized a barbecue place and was arrested at 2 am, inside, sitting on the floor, eating a BBQ sandwich and drinking a beer - he owned up to it, too, as I recall. If these guys had owned it before getting caught, I'd respect that. This high-minded talk from George and Levi is just spin - damage control so sales will not suffer.


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## phoehn9111 (May 11, 2005)

Levis testimony.

Yeah.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

David Loving said:


> They are about as sincere as a client I had years ago who burglarized a barbecue place and was arrested at 2 am, inside, sitting on the floor, eating a BBQ sandwich and drinking a beer - he owned up to it, too, as I recall. If these guys had owned it before getting caught, I'd respect that. This high-minded talk from George and Levi is just spin - damage control so sales will not suffer.


I guess you and I are in the same line of work. Cynicism seems to be a well-known occupational hazard. 

I don't think I'm going to be sitting down to eat a meal with any of these guys in the future, so, I'm not really going to trouble myself over their level of sincerity.


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## covenant (May 21, 2002)

The Tedinator said:


> Reasoned Decision
> 
> Read it and weep.


wow, I skimmed parts and took my time really reading others. Good Stuff. Finally the Beef!


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

I don't care if they are sincere or not. They just bring that old client to mind. He finished his sandwich, but he was sincere.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

DB--If you've read Laurent Fignon's autobiography you know he was no fan of Greg Lemond, but even he said Lemond rode clean. His contemporaries said he rode clean, and I think he did. 

That said, there's no comparing the performance enhancement of oxygen vector doping with what went before. When EPO appeared, suddenly mules like Riis were leaving the thoroughbreds in the dust. If you have Merckx and Armstrong at their prime on the same equipment, riding bread-and-water, Merckx crushes Armstrong like a grape.

Probably the same could be said for both Lemond and Fignon--two tremendous talents robbed of prime years by injury and accident. It's a pity we never got to see them have at one another in 87 and 88.


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

and Andy Hampsten's Giro


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

Fireform said:


> DB--If you've read Laurent Fignon's autobiography you know he was no fan of Greg Lemond, but even he said Lemond rode clean. His contemporaries said he rode clean, and I think he did.
> 
> That said, there's no comparing the performance enhancement of oxygen vector doping with what went before. When EPO appeared, suddenly mules like Riis were leaving the thoroughbreds in the dust. If you have Merckx and Armstrong at their prime on the same equipment, riding bread-and-water, Merckx crushes Armstrong like a grape.
> 
> Probably the same could be said for both Lemond and Fignon--two tremendous talents robbed of prime years by injury and accident. It's a pity we never got to see them have at one another in 87 and 88.


I think they patched it up when Fignon was dying. LeMond spent some time with him in France before Fignon passed away.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

If you are interested in all of the files, including affidavits, they are all here

Cycling Investigation - USADA


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## slegros (Sep 22, 2009)

Chris-X said:


> Really? Because they saw which way the wind blew and recognized the pervasiveness of the Pharmstrong apoolgists?
> 
> Double standard?


Chris!! Welcome back!!! I missed you man!! (Well OK, not really.... )

Now the circus really begins..... Lets see what the UCI does from here.... If this was a farce before, I have a feeling the UCI will take it to a whole new level.....


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## slegros (Sep 22, 2009)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Highlights from the USADA release


The last highlighted part is the saddest. Tygart's deal was more than reasonable, and IMO would have been appropriate. I think if LA truly cared about the good of the sport, that's the route he would have gone. It would have ended this once and for all for the benefit of the sport, and as said he could have chosen to be part of the solution. Instead we will probably now get to see how truly corrupt and farcical the UCI really is....


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## dmaciel (Oct 10, 2012)

Witch hunt nothing more and nothing less


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

Weasel words from the UCI.

"The UCI will examine all information received in order to consider issues of appeal and recognition, jurisdiction and *statute of limitation*, within the term of appeal of 21 days, as required by the World Anti-Doping Code."


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

dmaciel said:


> Witch hunt nothing more and nothing less



Care to state your case?


I'm all ears.


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## Dresden (May 26, 2009)

That's a lot of witches.

http://www.usada.org/sanctions/


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## MikeBiker (Mar 9, 2003)

Dresden said:


> That's a lot of witches.
> 
> http://www.usada.org/sanctions/


So, where can I pick up some "Oxygen-Enhancing Peptide Hormone"?


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## slegros (Sep 22, 2009)

orange_julius said:


> ... and Michael Barry? Will he have an addendum to the 2nd Edition of "Inside the Postal Bus"?


Michael Barry talks to the Canadian news and gives further details:

Canadian cyclist Barry lifts lid on doping | Sympatico.ca Sports


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## slegros (Sep 22, 2009)

Key excerpts from the USADA report:

Lance Armstrong: key excerpts from the USADA doping report - Telegraph


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## Dresden (May 26, 2009)

MikeBiker said:


> So, where can I pick up some "Oxygen-Enhancing Peptide Hormone"?


Dunno, but that's the guy that got busted doping at a Gran Fondo. 

Two cyclists tested positive for EPO at Gran Fondo New York 2012 | PRLog


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## MikeBiker (Mar 9, 2003)

But Lance passed over 10,000 drug tests and was tested more than all other athletes in the world combined.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Dresden said:


> That's a lot of witches.
> 
> http://www.usada.org/sanctions/



Wow; Hope Solo got busted (With a public warning).


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Interesting; Amber Neben in 2003. 

Pop!


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## Slip Stream (Jul 19, 2002)

But they took Lance to Federal Court and the case was thrown out, because it was based on inadmissible hearsay evidence. USADA changed the rules and decided to use arbitration. Arbitration is lengthy, expensive and impossible for the defense. Armstrong said "no mas." What USADA did for anti-doping witch trials will harm all sports for decades.

Hope UCI does not follow. If UCI recognizes USADA, that will destroy credibility of WADA. WADA cleared Lance in around 500 drug tests. And through hearsay and arbitration, every title ever won will be deemed disqualified upon accusation.


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

Slip Stream said:


> But they took Lance to Federal Court and the case was thrown out, because it was based on inadmissible hearsay evidence. USADA changed the rules and decided to use arbitration. Arbitration is lengthy, expensive and impossible for the defense. Armstrong said "no mas." What USADA did for anti-doping witch trials will harm all sports for decades.
> 
> Hope UCI does not follow. If UCI recognizes USADA, that will destroy credibility of WADA. WADA cleared Lance in around 500 drug tests. And through hearsay and arbitration, every title ever won will be deemed disqualified upon accusation.


#fail in every direction. I won't refute all of it, just tell me what you think "hearsay" means.


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## moskowe (Mar 14, 2011)

Those are news I like to wake up to. And as a celebratory measure roadbikereview moves the doping forum back to the front ? It's going to be raining chickens pretty soon...


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

American Cycling: The Lost Decade.

How sad


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

Slip Stream said:


> But they took Lance to Federal Court and the case was thrown out, because it was based on inadmissible hearsay evidence. USADA changed the rules and decided to use arbitration. Arbitration is lengthy, expensive and impossible for the defense. Armstrong said "no mas." What USADA did for anti-doping witch trials will harm all sports for decades.
> 
> Hope UCI does not follow. If UCI recognizes USADA, that will destroy credibility of WADA. WADA cleared Lance in around 500 drug tests. And through hearsay and arbitration, every title ever won will be deemed disqualified upon accusation.


LOL, that is great satire. 

My lungs began to crow like chanticleer, BRAVO!


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## C6Rider (Nov 15, 2008)

*Too true !!*



aclinjury said:


> You know the US often is accused of cronyism by the world, as in we like to protect "one of our own" versus doing something right. But this whole LA saga being handled by the USADA is honestly making me feel proud. Here is an American entity willing to bring down an American cyclist, and not just any American cyclist, but perhaps the most well-known and popular one of them all.
> 
> I hope France, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Germany and the rest of Europe can follow the USADA's lead and get rough with "one of their owns" too, especially Spain!


I don't think any country should be protecting their "own".


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Retro Grouch said:


> American Cycling: The Lost Decade.
> 
> How sad



Catchy title. 



And bitter sweet.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Fireform said:


> DB--If you've read Laurent Fignon's autobiography you know he was no fan of Greg Lemond, but even he said Lemond rode clean. His contemporaries said he rode clean, and I think he did.
> 
> That said, there's no comparing the performance enhancement of oxygen vector doping with what went before. When EPO appeared, suddenly mules like Riis were leaving the thoroughbreds in the dust. If you have Merckx and Armstrong at their prime on the same equipment, riding bread-and-water, Merckx crushes Armstrong like a grape.
> 
> Probably the same could be said for both Lemond and Fignon--two tremendous talents robbed of prime years by injury and accident. It's a pity we never got to see them have at one another in 87 and 88.


And you believe that crap? What do THEY define as "clean?"

I don't buy it. Doping happens at every level of sports. Cycling is one of the worst all time as is Football. Maye these guys did not have EPO, they were using something as a PED.

if you still believe Greg, I have some land for sale, LOL!


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

I guess Treks really aren't good bikes.


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## eyebob (Feb 3, 2004)

aclinjury said:


> You know the US often is accused of cronyism by the world, as in we like to protect "one of our own" versus doing something right. But this whole LA saga being handled by the USADA is honestly making me feel proud. Here is an American entity willing to bring down an American cyclist, and not just any American cyclist, but perhaps the most well-known and popular one of them all.
> 
> I hope France, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Germany and the rest of Europe can follow the USADA's lead and get rough with "one of their owns" too, especially Spain!


You bring up a good point.


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## jjmstang (May 8, 2009)

It's not about the bike LOL


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

Slip Stream said:


> But they took Lance to Federal Court and the case was thrown out, because it was based on inadmissible hearsay evidence. USADA changed the rules and decided to use arbitration. Arbitration is lengthy, expensive and impossible for the defense. Armstrong said "no mas." What USADA did for anti-doping witch trials will harm all sports for decades.
> 
> Hope UCI does not follow. If UCI recognizes USADA, that will destroy credibility of WADA. WADA cleared Lance in around 500 drug tests. And through hearsay and arbitration, every title ever won will be deemed disqualified upon accusation.


And to think that on election day, your vote counts as much as mine.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

The Tedinator said:


> Reasoned Decision
> 
> Read it and weep.


85,000 people have viewed it in 5 hours. CNN and ESPN broke into programming. Good Morning America will have a big piece tomorrow. Tyler on Piers and Anderson Cooper. Big stories in all the major papers

It appears some people care


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## culdeus (May 5, 2005)

If EPO is out of your system in 12 hours why are they testing after the race rather than before? 

Or is this question rhetorical?


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

aclinjury said:


> You know the US often is accused of cronyism by the world, as in we like to protect "one of our own" versus doing something right. But this whole LA saga being handled by the USADA is honestly making me feel proud. Here is an American entity willing to bring down an American cyclist, and not just any American cyclist, but perhaps the most well-known and popular one of them all.
> 
> I hope France, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Germany and the rest of Europe can follow the USADA's lead and get rough with "one of their owns" too, especially Spain!





Doctor Falsetti said:


> 85,000 people have viewed it in 5 hours. CNN and ESPN broke into programming. Good Morning America will have a big piece tomorrow. Tyler on Piers and Anderson Cooper. Big stories in all the major papers
> 
> It appears some people care


Yep.


And heading for the weekend after the hump-day explosion.


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## Samadhi (Nov 1, 2011)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> 85,000 people have viewed it in 5 hours.


Not that big a number. That's less that 1/4 the population of Denver. BIG news on the 'net will get millions in the first hour. When your server crashes under the request load, THEN you have a big story.




> CNN and ESPN broke into programming. Good Morning America will have a big piece tomorrow. Tyler on Piers and Anderson Cooper. Big stories in all the major papers


Sure, it's big news _now_, but it may blow over before week's end. Much bigger and far more important stories in the news cycle right now.



> It appears some people care


A few.

That's not to say it's not important. Just not _that_ important.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

I'll gauge how much it mattered by how many yahoos in pickup trucks still yell out "Hey Lance" as they buzz me on the roads. :lol:


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## Slip Stream (Jul 19, 2002)

blackhat said:


> #fail in every direction. I won't refute all of it, just tell me what you think "hearsay" means.


Not to get wonky on you, but the legal definition for you (because you were too lazy to look it up yourself):

"Hearsay is the legal term for testimony in a court proceeding where the witness does not have direct knowledge of the fact asserted, but knows it only from being told by someone."

eat your #fail.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Slip Stream said:


> Not to get wonky on you, but the legal definition for you (because you were too lazy to look it up yourself):
> 
> "Hearsay is the legal term for testimony in a court proceeding where the witness does not have direct knowledge of the fact asserted, but knows it only from being told by someone."
> 
> eat your #fail.


Except there's very little heresay in that 202 page document. 

Read it. Eat your eat your #fail.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

"George told me that he saw Lance inject EPO." Hearsay

"I saw Lance inject EPO in a hotel room in XXXXXXX." Direct evidence, not hearsay.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

The affidavits available online now make absorbing reading. 

None of it is really surprising if you've read Tyler's book. What's impressive is how comprehensively all of these accounts agree with Tyler's and with one another. What is left for Lance to say at this point?


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Fireform said:


> The affidavits available online now make absorbing reading.
> 
> None of it is really surprising if you've read Tyler's book. What's impressive is how comprehensively all of these accounts agree with Tyler's and with one another. What is left for Lance to say at this point?


"I don't care" followed by hiding behind his "family" and charity.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

_Seriously?_ Lance is still denying it? Do I have that right? 

Now I'm beginning to think he's not just a mean bastid, but truly delusional. As in a touch of crazy, delusional. 

What's the point, at this point? 

>confused<


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## superjesus (Jul 26, 2010)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> _Seriously?_ Lance is still denying it? Do I have that right?
> 
> Now I'm beginning to think he's not just a mean bastid, but truly delusional. As in a touch of crazy, delusional.
> 
> ...


From a recent VeloNews article...



VeloNews said:


> If Armstrong is defiant, perhaps it’s because he has no choice. As noted in an Outside article last month, Armstrong risks jail, perjury charges and damages from past lawsuits should he ever admit to doping.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> _Seriously?_ Lance is still denying it? Do I have that right?
> 
> Now I'm beginning to think he's not just a mean bastid, but truly delusional. As in a touch of crazy, delusional.
> 
> ...


Look what happened to Landis when he came clean. Things only got worse for him. He ended up getting punished even more than he already had plus he got sued by the UCI plus he had to pay money back to people who invested in him plus (maybe most importantly) it only made people hate him even more. 

The only way that Lance would stand to benefit from admission would be if he actually suffered a guilty conscience that he had to clear (which was the reason Floyd came clean). I don't know that Lance feels that or even believes that he did anything wrong. 

A few years ago in an interview, someone (maybe it was Kimmage?) asked Lance why he was not condemning Landis for his doping when he clearly did. Lance responded by saying that whether or not Floyd doped, internally Floyd didn't believe that he doped. I suspected at that time that Lance may have been actually speaking for himself there. He may still have himself convinced that regardless of the drugs and transfusions and such that he didn't really cheat (due to the context of the time) and shouldn't have to pay for it.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

superjesus said:


> From a recent VeloNews article...





> Originally Posted by *VeloNews*
> _If Armstrong is defiant, perhaps it’s because he has no choice. As noted in an Outside article last month, Armstrong risks jail, perjury charges and damages from past lawsuits should he ever admit to doping._


That may explain a lot regarding his defiance.

He had put himself between a rock and a hard place and has no where to go. A classic catch 22.


BTW; Thanks for sharing the link.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

mpre53 said:


> I'll gauge how much it mattered by how many yahoos in pickup trucks still yell out "Hey Lance" as they buzz me on the roads. :lol:


If you're going fast up a hill it'll still happen. Just give them The Stare and 'move on'.


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