# TT rules discussion



## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

Hey guys... hoping to get some opinions on how some rules and how you might proceed.

Last year, I entered my first Time Trial event. I wasn't sure which category I should enter, the Cat 4/5 TT class or the Eddy Category. I don't have a TT bike, so the "Eddy" category seemed the likely option, but then I read the "Eddy" rules and didn't think that seemed right. The rules state:

"The "Eddy" category works on the honor system. Don't use things that Eddy Merckx would not have used for a time trial effort. For example aero wheels and helmets do not fit well in this category. On the other hand drilling holes in your components would be welcome. Wool clothing gets you extra respect!"

I have a Venge which is an aero road bike and I run 60mm aero wheels. They're certainly not time trial material, but they're not what Eddy would have used either. I figured I'd have to enter the normal cat 4/5 TT and try my luck even though I'd obviously be bringing a knife to a gun fight. The day of the race and as I'm warming up, I see the "Eddy" class preparing at the start area and half of them are on similar bikes to mine.. There was an assortment of both carbon and aluminum bikes, some running aluminum wheels, but most running carbon as deep as 303's and 404's. Almost all of the competitors were using "aero" road helmets like the Giro Air Attack, but not true TT helmets.






























I put in a decent effort that day, averaging 275w for 19 minutes, finishing 13th out of 20 competitors in the Cat4/5 TT class, beating a handful of guys on legit TT bikes. My time would have put me 4th in the "Eddy" class. 

On further review, I found that this time trial was part of a larger statewide Time Trial series and that statewide time trial cup had a series of rules for the non-tt category. They are as follows:

In the Non TT Bike Category, riders in this class will compete without Aero Bars or extensions. Disc wheels, spoke covers, and other forms of solid construction “Aero Wheels” such as Trispoke and Spinergy are not permitted. Bicycles shall conform to USAC rules for Mass Start Bicycles. Skinsuits are allowed and any USAC legal helmet may be worn.

those rules seem pretty reasonable and basically amount to competitors being allowed to use any components that the pro peloton might use on a normal road stage. My Venge and aero wheels and evade helmet would certainly be legal. It seems as if most of the competitors in the class followed these rules even though the "eddy" rules don't match. All of the other events in the statewide cup follow these rules for the non-TT class. 

My question is...

For this year, it looks like the rules are set up the same. I contacted the race organizer about clarifying the rules for the "eddy" category but haven't gotten any response. Would you guys assume that the overall rules of the series take precedence? After getting my feet wet last year, in all types of different racing events, I want to focus on doing more TT's as well as road races.


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

Bring you venge/deep wheels / evade helmet and have fun... That how it reads to me


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## Bee-an-key (May 5, 2007)

The biggest point is to eliminate the bar/tri extension and disc wheels (or 3 spoke). No long aero (older style pointy) helmet but with the popularity of the aero/road helmet they are fine. The deep carbon wheels are now considered standard in all conditions. The NJ events you are considering will often see Cervelo aero frames, deeper Zipp wheels like picture 1 as they are ridden in crits, RR and TT. The true Eddy rule is more of an Eroica/retro thing. This just separates the hard core racers and tri guys from those who don't have the equipment.


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## tommybike (Dec 30, 2015)

General rule is no TT bike, no TT helmet and I think no discs. The Eddy division has had a ramp up in the arms race unfortunately as well. The Cat 4/5 is dominated by 10k bikes. My used TT bike looked as out of place as your Venge probably did. BTW, was that LBI?


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

Bee-an-key said:


> The biggest point is to eliminate the bar/tri extension and disc wheels (or 3 spoke). No long aero (older style pointy) helmet but with the popularity of the aero/road helmet they are fine. The deep carbon wheels are now considered standard in all conditions. The NJ events you are considering will often see Cervelo aero frames, deeper Zipp wheels like picture 1 as they are ridden in crits, RR and TT. The true Eddy rule is more of an Eroica/retro thing. This just separates the hard core racers and tri guys from those who don't have the equipment.


Don't get me wrong, I get why they have the rules in terms of breaking up the TT vs. non-TT categories. The non-TT rules make it easy for someone like me that is new to the sport to come in and give the discipline a try without competing against the full-fledged TT guys that have built really specific bikes for this purpose. I just think its so weird that this one particular event in the series is altering the rules, but then not really applying them. What the purpose of specifying some different set of standards and then saying, "we've gone out of way to come up with different rules but we don't want to enforce them, so its on the honor system." If they don't want to enforce the different standard of rules, why bother to change them in the first place.... unless the "eddy" category rules as their specifying were the original rules and the series organization and evolved them and this event is just trying to hold on to the old rule set. Either way, its confusing, and if the goal is to ultimately bring people out to the events to try them, why make it confusing?



tommybike said:


> General rule is no TT bike, no TT helmet and I think no discs. The Eddy division has had a ramp up in the arms race unfortunately as well. The Cat 4/5 is dominated by 10k bikes. My used TT bike looked as out of place as your Venge probably did. BTW, was that LBI?


Yes, you're right... the general rule as you've listed is basically what the main series organizer lists as the rules, but they give a little more clarification. I'm sure the Eddy division has ramped up, its racing... and in any form of racing, competition ramps up. If people are competing, they're going to look do what they can, to give themselves the best chance. Clarifying the rules, regardless of the category, only serves to increase competitiveness and make sure that people are in the correct groups so competition is close and more fun, for all parties involved. I'm not upset with what happened last year and in the end, I'm happy with the effort I did at the time, but it would have also been nice to know that I was racing against people on similar equipment. Obviously, I could still compare times and see that I was competitive in the correct group, but it was definitely discouraging to see the guy in front of me leave the start gate on his S-Works Shiv, with disc wheel, S-Works TT helmet, etc.... dude was fast.

The event was Sandy Hook.

This is me...


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Rich. The quote from the organizers in your OP welcomes drilling holes in components and wearing wool...You're reading way too much into racing Eddy in 2016. The organizers are just having fun and probably just trying to raise interest/entry's.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

Very few riders have 'eddy' bikes. The idea is to get riders to ride, not create some bs rules to exclude riders.


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

Agreed - don't read much into how they're promoting the race, e.g. "things that Eddy Merckx would not have used for a time trial effort"... Eddy didn't wear a helmet. 

I did an Eddy Merckx TT last fall. I used my road bike (it was that or a single speed) and borrowed some 50mm wheels. I had fun, did well and thought the rules were perfect. In fact, despite the EM class being looked at as more of a pseudo-serious event to let newer riders try a TT, I actually like the "purity" of it. 

For me, it was more "real world". I learned what I can do for an hour on my road bike away from a pack. No voodoo guesses at what a TT bike adds to ones efficiency, what a skin suit and TT helmet is worth in MPHs. I plan on doing more EM events and have zero interest in "real" TT events.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

woodys737 said:


> Rich. The quote from the organizers in your OP welcomes drilling holes in components and wearing wool...You're reading way too much into racing Eddy in 2016. The organizers are just having fun and probably just trying to raise interest/entry's.





duriel said:


> Very few riders have 'eddy' bikes. The idea is to get riders to ride, not create some bs rules to exclude riders.


Maybe I am reading into it too much.... but if the point is to encourage people to come out, than I think the "Eddy" rule is counter-productive, because who really has equipment that Eddy would use.. almost no one. To that end, it discourages people from coming out that have never done it because they don't know how serious the rules officials may or not be. I think the non-TT rules are for more inclusive, because those rules allow for what most riders I see on the road today, have.



OldZaskar said:


> Agreed - don't read much into how they're promoting the race, e.g. "things that Eddy Merckx would not have used for a time trial effort"... Eddy didn't wear a helmet.
> 
> I did an Eddy Merckx TT last fall. I used my road bike (it was that or a single speed) and borrowed some 50mm wheels. I had fun, did well and thought the rules were perfect. In fact, despite the EM class being looked at as more of a pseudo-serious event to let newer riders try a TT, I actually like the "purity" of it.
> 
> For me, it was more "real world". I learned what I can do for an hour on my road bike away from a pack. No voodoo guesses at what a TT bike adds to ones efficiency, what a skin suit and TT helmet is worth in MPHs. I plan on doing more EM events and have zero interest in "real" TT events.


I agree... I like that aspect too. When I used to race my car, both drag race and auto-x, I usually did so in exactly the same condition on drove it one the street. While my friends were stripping their cars of seats and interior and mounting slicks, I was interested in finding out how the car performed as I had it set up on my drive to work.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

TricrossRich said:


> *Maybe I am reading into it too much.*... *but if the point is to encourage people to come out, than I think the "Eddy" rule is counter-productive, because who really has equipment that Eddy would use.*. almost no one. To that end, it discourages people from coming out that have never done it because they don't know how serious the rules officials may or not be. I think the non-TT rules are for more inclusive, because those rules allow for what most riders I see on the road today, have.


You did it again or you don't understand the idea behind Merckx style TT's. The purpose is NOT to ride vintage Merckx gear. You can but, that's not the point. The point is to ride your road bike w/o clip ons faster than the next guy on his road bike w/o clip ons. Sometimes the promoter allows full on TT helmets, skinsuits and even disc wheels. Sometimes they don't. That's it.


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## RoadEye (Aug 21, 2009)

I did 8 or 9 of these tt's last year and too was surprised what some folks where bringing. I remembering commenting to a friend about some of those bikes/wheels being considered alright for the Eddy class. The guy usually starting ahead of me was on a Cervelo S5 with pretty deep wheels. I'm still struggling as to what is an 'aero' wheel is. That being said, I will probably be using 50mm wheels on my Tarmac this year on the few tt's I will be doing. 

As for the rules, no disc, no aero bars, no aero helmet... anything else seems legal. And as others have mentioned, I see these more as a 'fun' event and sure I want to do well but, at this point I am more interested in comparing times from previous efforts.

And just in case you don't know, there is a facebook group for the series

https://www.facebook.com/groups/454823674652201/


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

RoadEye said:


> I did 8 or 9 of these tt's last year and too was surprised what some folks where bringing. I remembering commenting to a friend about some of those bikes/wheels being considered alright for the Eddy class. The guy usually starting ahead of me was on a Cervelo S5 with pretty deep wheels. I'm still struggling as to what is an 'aero' wheel is. That being said, I will probably be using 50mm wheels on my Tarmac this year on the few tt's I will be doing.


well, only one of the event had the non-TT class labeled as Eddy, so to me, they seemed to be trying to make a distinction, but apparently, I'm wrong.



RoadEye said:


> As for the rules, no disc, no aero bars, no aero helmet... anything else seems legal. And as others have mentioned, I see these more as a 'fun' event and sure I want to do well but, at this point I am more interested in comparing times from previous efforts.
> 
> And just in case you don't know, there is a facebook group for the series
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/454823674652201/


Thanks.. I didn't realize that. It would be great if they linked to it or mentioned it on the website. hahaha. I requested to join, hopefully someone will approve me.


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

woodys737 said:


> You did it again or you don't understand the idea behind Merckx style TT's. The purpose is NOT to ride vintage Merckx gear. You can but, that's not the point. The point is to ride your road bike w/o clip ons faster than the next guy on his road bike w/o clip ons. Sometimes the promoter allows full on TT helmets, skinsuits and even disc wheels. Sometimes they don't. That's it.


This. 

That's the entire point of it. You're way overthinking this entire thing.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Agreed with what has been said here. I'm fine with the rules as long as they're spelled out. I once did a Merckx TT and was asked to take off my shoe covers, which was not listed on their rules. The other ones I have done allow shoe covers.


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## Bianchi67 (Oct 16, 2005)

I have raced in the nj tt cup Eddy division in the past and have friends still racing that class. Sandy Hook is part of the cup and the series rules apply. Promoter's comment must just have been a joke. The contenders on the Eddy class use everything not banned. One race last year a guy was disqualified after a protest by another Eddy competitor due to a helmet that did not meet some requirement. See Njba web page for restrictions. Also note that the class was changed from Eddy to Non-TT to remove the idea that only bikes Eddy would have used are allowed a few years ago. And lastly, Sandy Hook usually (but not this year due to a change) falls on the same day as one of the main garden state cup road races so most of the top finishers in all the other tt cup Eddy races were not there. The series winner for that class last year (acquaintance) was the reigning garden state cup 35+ champ, reigning 35+ nj state champ, and top cat 1 racer in state.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

The few I have done the enforcement of the Eddy seemed hap hazard. One I borrowed my wife box section rims to comply with the regs only to have the guy in front of me start with aero bike on a set of zipp 808s and a TT helmet (catching and passing him was so sweet).


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

RoadEye said:


> I did 8 or 9 of these tt's last year and too was surprised what some folks where bringing. I remembering commenting to a friend about some of those bikes/wheels being considered alright for the Eddy class. The guy usually starting ahead of me was on a Cervelo S5 with pretty deep wheels. I'm still struggling as to what is an 'aero' wheel is. That being said, I will probably be using 50mm wheels on my Tarmac this year on the few tt's I will be doing.
> 
> As for the rules, no disc, no aero bars, no aero helmet... anything else seems legal. And as others have mentioned, I see these more as a 'fun' event and sure I want to do well but, at this point I am more interested in comparing times from previous efforts.
> 
> ...


Think it was you that said "hi" out there this morning, right? I couldn't quite hear what you said with the starter yelling the countdown, except for "Road Bike Review"


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

6 events in for the season and I've done 5 of them. I finished 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, skipped, 7th (hill climb TT) and 2nd... Currently sitting firmly in 2nd place in the class. Here's a shot from yesterday.


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## vagabondcyclist (Apr 2, 2011)

A bit of a thread dredge but....

While it's up to the race promoter to define what they mean by Merckx category and then for the racers to abide by those definitions, an easy way is to use the USA Collegiate rules for TT which allow aero (TT) helmets, skin suits, and mass start legal wheels--anything but a disk or tri spoke. Basically, if it's mass start legal, it's legal. Again, unless the promoter is trying to go old school, the idea of Merckx categories are to encourage more people to participate. 

My local association added a Merckx category to the individual TT championship as a last minute thing. Anyone who rolled up to the line without a TT bike was in along with their regular category.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

vagabondcyclist said:


> A bit of a thread dredge but....
> 
> While it's up to the race promoter to define what they mean by Merckx category and then for the racers to abide by those definitions, an easy way is to use the USA Collegiate rules for TT which allow aero (TT) helmets, skin suits, and mass start legal wheels--anything but a disk or tri spoke. Basically, if it's mass start legal, it's legal. Again, unless the promoter is trying to go old school, the idea of Merckx categories are to encourage more people to participate.
> 
> My local association added a Merckx category to the individual TT championship as a last minute thing. Anyone who rolled up to the line without a TT bike was in along with their regular category.


I completely understand why having a Merckx or Non-TT category is important in terms of attracting new racers to give time trials a try. The whole point of this thread was that the state wide TT cup in NJ had defined rules for the Non-TT class (essentially the same exact rules as you listed for the collegiate rules) and then one of the individual events that was part of the cup listed the rules differently. If the spirit of the class is to encourage new participation, then purposely going out of your way to make the issue cloudy is completely against this stated goal.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

Hey guys... Just thought I'd follow up here now that the season is over. I ended up finishing 2nd overall in the TT Cup, Non-TT Class. I put together a full recap here on the Crank Addicts blog.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Congrats! Really cool write up as well. I'm a pictures kind of guy so I always appreciate the cool images. Love my Velotoes as well!

One question...Love love love the way the Turbo Cotton rolls and corners. However, I have had really bad luck as far as punctures go. Could be and probably is plain old bad luck but, wondering how they held up for you? Obviously pretty well as they are the tire of choice in each race...just any observations or general comments.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

woodys737 said:


> Congrats! Really cool write up as well. I'm a pictures kind of guy so I always appreciate the cool images. Love my Velotoes as well!
> 
> One question...Love love love the way the Turbo Cotton rolls and corners. However, I have had really bad luck as far as punctures go. Could be and probably is plain old bad luck but, wondering how they held up for you? Obviously pretty well as they are the tire of choice in each race...just any observations or general comments.


Love the turbo cottons as a race tire, but I would not use them as an everyday training tire. There's just no flat protection at all (ok, maybe a tiny little bit, but not much). I have not gotten a puncture using them, but I've really only used them as a race tire exclusively, so not a ton of miles on them. After the Sandy Hook TT, a buddy of mine met me and we rode down to Manasquan inlet and back to grab lunch. I think it was like a 40 mile ride or something. That is probably the longest, non-race, ride that I've put in on them. I spent the first half of the season racing on my 60mm wheels, so I was swapping the Cottons on and off for races. The second half of the season, I raced on the 88's and simply left the cottons on those as they were TT only wheels. I also have a set of the new Vittoria's on my Allez and used them for some road races and training. I'd say they feel almost exactly the same as the Cottons and I haven't gotten any flats on them either. Normally, I'd not use the Vittorias as a training tire either, but I got them for free to try so I figured I'd put them though their paces and see how they held up. I'm probably gonna take them off now and put on something more durable for the fall/winter months. I should also note that I'm running latex tubes with both tire sets to maximize the suppleness and rolling efficiency. Most people assume that latex tubes are less durable than butyl and I'd say that's probably true, but there are some people that suggest that latex tubes are actually less prone to flats because of their suppleness. The thinking is that when something punctures the tire casing, the latest tube actually deflects a little bit avoiding the puncture, while a stiffer butyl tube forces the what has come through the casing to puncture the tube.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Ok thx. Yeah I was just using them for races. New tires, first two races and two flats. Again, no logical reason to judge as it was probably just bad luck. Never found the shard of glass, thorn etc...But, I've moved on to Vittoria (corsa g and the cx) for clincher and the new Tangent speeds for my tubulars with more reliable results. 

My every day tire which is damn near as fast just not as supple is the Conti gp4000. They seem to wear and handle the heat as well as anything.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

woodys737 said:


> Ok thx. Yeah I was just using them for races. New tires, first two races and two flats. Again, no logical reason to judge as it was probably just bad luck. Never found the shard of glass, thorn etc...But, I've moved on to Vittoria (corsa g and the cx) for clincher and the new Tangent speeds for my tubulars with more reliable results.
> 
> My every day tire which is damn near as fast just not as supple is the Conti gp4000. They seem to wear and handle the heat as well as anything.


Yea... probably just bad luck. I'd say the cottons and the Corsa G's are basically the same. I see no reason why one would be any more or less flat prone than the other. So if you've had good luck with the Corsa's than I'd just say the Cottons were bad luck.

I use the Non cotton SWorks turbos for my everyday tires, 24's on the front, 26's on the back. I hate the Conti's. I went through 3 sets of them in one summer due to bad sidewalls... the tread life itself was fine, but the sidewalls would always go bad. I've had several friends have catastrophic blow outs from the same sidewall issues on Conti's so I don't trust them.


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

I'm on corse g+ speed.. about 200+ miles on some crappy roads too...impressed so far. Have turbo cottons waiting in the wings.


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