# How to Maintan 26-28 mph Longer?



## Jose Roubaix (Mar 12, 2010)

I ride with a local group about 30 miles, twice a week at an average of 26-30 mph. Apart from the group rides i do 40 mile rides alone twice a week and occasional 20 mile endurance rides, so I ride about 120-140 miles a week total. I was told that I need better aero wheels to maintain that top speed longer as I eventually get dropped in my group rides. I currently ride 2010 Mavic Elite's (1550gr.). I have set out to get better wheels as was suggested. My budget is $1000. 

My question is if purchasing Zipp 101's or HED Ardennes aero enough for my goal? Or for the given budget should I go heavier than I have now (Mavic Elite 1550gr.) and purchase 2010 Mavic Carbones SL's (1750gr)?

In other words for maintaining top speeds longer should I go with Zipp 101's(1530gr) / HED Ardennes(1381gr) or 2010 Mavic Carbones SL's (1750gr)?

My second question is, does the extra weight even out the fact that the ZIpp'sand the HED's have a less aero profile?


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## mimason (Oct 7, 2006)

see below


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## mimason (Oct 7, 2006)

I would steer you toward a deeper dish than a 101. Try 46-50 mm depth. In reality though in the draft you won't realize a lot of the benefits. Staying on longer in the pack at those speeds would require improved fitness, riding smarter or both. For starters I'd do less work and sit in to stay on.


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## johng723 (Aug 3, 2010)

Typically in a group ride, aero wheels are not going to help you when you're in the back of the pack trying to hang on. They will benefit you on your solo rides and if/when you are leading the pack. If you're getting dropped on your group rides, I say, keep riding and training till you don't get dropped  . I'm sure someone with more experience will chime in...


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

More aero wheels will save a few watts. But that'll just mean that you make it 100 yards or a 1/4 mile farther before you're dropped. The savings is real but it's pretty small.

You can probably do more for aerodynamics by working on your body position. Are you in the drops when you're in the wind? Are your elbows in? I often ride in the drops even when I'm on someone's wheel. There's still energy to be saved. If you can, lower your bars (a bit at a time). That's free.

Last, most people get dropped because they can't hang with repeated accellerations. It's not the average speed that's the problem, its when the pack speeds up. To work on that, do intervals (or group rides).


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## mjdwyer23 (Mar 18, 2009)

Intervals.


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## RShea (Sep 11, 2007)

ericm979 said:


> More aero wheels will save a few watts. But that'll just mean that you make it 100 yards or a 1/4 mile farther before you're dropped. The savings is real but it's pretty small.
> 
> You can probably do more for aerodynamics by working on your body position. Are you in the drops when you're in the wind? Are your elbows in? I often ride in the drops even when I'm on someone's wheel. There's still energy to be saved. If you can, lower your bars (a bit at a time). That's free.
> 
> Last, most people get dropped because they can't hang with repeated accellerations. It's not the average speed that's the problem, its when the pack speeds up. To work on that, do intervals (or group rides).



I agree for the most part about your comments- that better aero position can be a help. Flatter back, however if the bike has a threadless headset and it already is in the lowest position stem (flipped to the negative angle) and all the spacers are on top, then a lower position is no longer free... it requires a purchasing a different stem with an angle that will lower some more. However the last few degrees like everything is marginal improvement and could be down right uncomfortable at some point.

Are you paceline riding with the group rides? 

First and foremost I'd look at the following:

The engine (ie you). You state you ride 140 or so miles a week, but are you doing any intervals, sprints, and working on riding smarter or just logging miles. You may need to increase your mileage or you may need to adjust your schedule and look at your days of rest off the bike for what you are doing- full rest or cross training with maybe weights or some other cardio work-out? Any extra weight that you are carrying- or are you pretty fit already? Are you fueling the engine correctly (nutrition can play a big part)? Do you consider heart rate, have you ever undergone VO2 Max testing? 

Do you mash a big gear or are you a spinner with a good cadence?

Evaluate the whole bike- aero wheels are a part of the equation- but as others have pointed out, aero wheels only help when the wind is at the right angle and you are off the front. Total weight of the bike can be a factor too, as well as the spin up and rolling smoothness of the wheels you have. 

I know I could have the best aero, most expensive set of wheels made on my bike and I still would not be able to hang with the top racers in a group ride with 26 to 28 mile per hour average for a long period (unless the ride was all down hill the whole way)


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

mjdwyer23 said:


> Intervals.


yep, training.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

Remind me not to join your group if they are AVERAGING 26 - 28mph/42 - 45km/h.


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## illlili (Jul 14, 2010)

*.*

Jose,

Im only 800mi into my first roadbike after running daily for over a decade. Like you I have been looking for ways to help keep my speed above 25mph but on the flats of A1A in south Florida.. As most have mentioned already, Your combined strength and stamina play the largest role in your improvment on keeping up with the pack. I will add that I am eagerly anticipating delivery a new aero wheelset I ordered a feew days ago. My research led me to a great deal of 2010 Mavic Cosmic Carbone SLR's for $999 which bonktown.com places in their product rotation, I have no feedback on the wheels just yet but I am extremely excited to replace my stock shimano rs 10's

-James


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

So you are trying to tell us your group rides average 26-30 mph for 30 miles? Seriously? Either you are riding with pro's or you are stretching the truth a little. The fact you only have 5 posts so far makes me think the latter...

The state championship Team Time Trial winners here in Oregon, with a group of 4 of the fastest TT guys in the state, all on TT bikes with skinsuits, aero helmets, disc rear wheels, etc. only averaged around 29 mph over 27.3 miles last year. 

You must be freaky fast for only training 120-140 miles per week. Sounds like a few more miles per week and you will be ready for some of the domestic pro teams, maybe a little better than that.

Are you sure your not just looking at your speedometer from time to time when the paceline is moving along pretty good for a short period of time?

If you really are doing those speeds, my hat is off to you...your best bet is a set of 60mm deep dish carbon tubulars (or carbon clinchers if you don't want to deal with tubulars).


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## 2silent (Dec 26, 2009)

don't most cities have a 25+ mph group ride?


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## johng723 (Aug 3, 2010)

2silent said:


> don't most cities have a 25+ mph group ride?


The club ride I go on most weekends can have pacelines of 25+ mph at times, but only on the flatter sections. On any extended climbs, most will drop down to 12-15 mph.


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## louise (May 24, 2010)

It's the internet.

All things are possible.


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

*Indeed*



louise said:


> It's the internet.
> 
> All things are possible.


I find it difficult to drop below 80 rpm when climbing my favorite 10 mile 20% grade hill using my 53x11 single speed. 

It must be due to my 5'10" 130 lbs frame


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## QQUIKM3 (Apr 20, 2008)

*Haa hahahahh*



FTR said:


> Remind me not to join your group if they are AVERAGING 26 - 28mph/42 - 45km/h.


I was thinking the same thing. Sounds like these kids don't know how to calibrate their cycling computers. 26-30mph?? Yea, right. I average 30-45.hahahahhahh


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## malanb (Oct 26, 2009)

it is possible. some time when we do rides on the highway in our group for 2.5 hours we ave 39 - 40 klm/h, But we have fast riders and we train around 15 hrs weekly. 26 mph = 42 klm/h


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## c_rex (Jun 3, 2010)

johng723 said:


> The club ride I go on most weekends can have pacelines of 25+ mph at times, but only on the flatter sections. On any extended climbs, most will drop down to 12-15 mph.


This is a not uncommon scenario for organized, seasoned riders even at the "training" level. I don't see why it is difficult to believe. /shrug


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

c_rex said:


> This is a not uncommon scenario for organized, seasoned riders even at the "training" level. I don't see why it is difficult to believe. /shrug


For short periods of time...it's not uncommon at all. 

However....doing 30 mile rides with the total ride average being 26-30 mph??? Ummm, Yea Right :thumbsup:


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## malanb (Oct 26, 2009)

48 klm at 42 klm/h. , what is so hard to believe. :/, it is a group ride. It will be just a bit more than an hour.


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## 2silent (Dec 26, 2009)

johng723 said:


> The club ride I go on most weekends can have pacelines of 25+ mph at times, but only on the flatter sections. On any extended climbs, most will drop down to 12-15 mph.





Certainly- however I don't think we've ever averaged over 22.5-23 or so, but our rides are always at least 2 hrs too. 

26-28 is really stepping it up- 

ie- I can time trial an hr at about 24 (stock class- non aero) and it would take an almost insurmountable amount of additional strength to go 28...


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

Wookiebiker said:


> For short periods of time...it's not uncommon at all.
> 
> However....doing 30 mile rides with the total ride average being 26-30 mph??? Ummm, Yea Right :thumbsup:


And, in a situation that really is that fast (i.e. a race), un-aero wheels aren't really top of the list of things that keep one from hanging on.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

Wookiebiker said:


> For short periods of time...it's not uncommon at all.
> 
> However....doing 30 mile rides with the total ride average being 26-30 mph??? Ummm, Yea Right :thumbsup:


Completely believable if the loop is downhill the whole way.


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## johng723 (Aug 3, 2010)

FTR said:


> Completely believable if the loop is downhill the whole way.


Still hard to believe. I would think an all downhill LOOP is something downhill riders fantasize about


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

is this the training loop?

https://visualfunhouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/mc_escher_063.jpg


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## nismo73 (Jul 29, 2009)

This must be the A++++++++++++++++++++ group ride.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Pan flat and no wind with lots of strong riders, possibly. What most of us ride? Probably not. 

As others have noted, when you're in the pack, you don't notice the benefits of aero wheels nearly as much. When you're on your own, you're usually off the back.


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## jtimmer1 (Mar 28, 2009)

26-28mph group ride? that's faster than most top (regional) TT riders over a flat course for 30 miles. 

If this is true, then probably 60-90 mm aero wheels.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Wookiebiker said:


> However....doing 30 mile rides with the total ride average being 26-30 mph??? Ummm, Yea Right :thumbsup:


Even from a pure math angle, it's all bunk. An average by definition is one specific number (21.23 mph, for example), not a range like 26-30 mph. What's odd about this is the fact that hardly anyone ever posts the number they see when they hit the "average speed" button on their computer after a ride—it's almost always some vaguely recollected range of speed. I can't be the only one with an average speed readout on the computer...


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## R3 Sloth (Mar 25, 2010)

"I can't be the only one with an average speed readout on the computer."

You're not, it's just too disappointing/painful to post.


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## jjmurch1 (Nov 16, 2002)

my average speed is 12 mph


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

R3 Sloth said:


> You're not, it's just too disappointing/painful to post.


Yea, that's gotta be it. And come to think of it, you'll never see _my_ AVS readout on this forum either.


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## QuattroCreep (Nov 30, 2009)

My local Thursday night training crit is a 1 mile flat oval in a business park no hard corners to slow the group. It is a 30 lap open race, and we get all levels of riders cat1-guys trying it out for fun. The fastest avg speed this year was 26mph, and that was really hard even just hiding in the group (50+ riders) for all 30 laps.

I was on 32 spoke box section rims nothing special. You should work on the engine and buy some nice wheels when you want some bling.


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

get a lighter wheelset than the 1550 gram one your using. light at the rim, may not keep you from getting dropped but it will help with the accelarations that happen on group rides. research nimble wheelset, flit, revolution wheels as well as neuvation or williams wheelsets. all have lighter rims than the manufactured low spoke count wheelset. use sub-200 gram tires, 55 gram inner tubes. or go tubular. in the wheels section a forum member built a carbon tubular wheelset from parts that are available on eBay, less than $700. If you have a wheelbuilder in your area this might be the way to go. Pick up an old Shimano Dura-ace hubset off eBay and put a set of KINLIN 200xr rims with sapim spokes these will be as light or lighter than any Mavic kysrium wheels and probably more dependable. this was a question about wheels right?


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*wow*



2silent said:


> Certainly- however I don't think we've ever averaged over 22.5-23 or so, but our rides are always at least 2 hrs too.
> 
> 26-28 is really stepping it up-
> 
> ie- I can time trial an hr at about 24 (stock class- non aero) and it would take an almost insurmountable amount of additional strength to go 28...


I've done some group rides that include a number of very strong Cat 1's, and when they take extended pulls the speeds are in the low 30's for a few miles, but the average is far below that. At those speeds, people are falling off the back about every 10 seconds, too. 

I have averaged over 30 mph on the out leg of a 10 mile time trial, but the return leg was much slower.

Here is how to really get the average speeds up, though. Mountains.

http://www.midcalracing.com/downhill/dhtt051808.htm


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## no msg (May 5, 2007)

*Aero wheels help little in group rides.*

It's your fitness or your strategy, not the wheels.

Just look around you during the next ride. I'm pretty sure a good chunk of the riders who stay on are sporting Mavic Ksyriums, some of the least aero wheels around.


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

new wheels aren't your problem, save your money for a coach.


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## Dumbod (Dec 31, 2004)

2silent said:


> don't most cities have a 25+ mph group ride?


No, but most Internet sites do.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Speed kills*



Dumbod said:


> No, but most Internet sites do.


Ba boom!


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## alexp247365 (Dec 29, 2009)

I'd like to hold 26-28mph longer as well, so I've built up to about 2 hours in the saddle of riding at 17-18mph on the trainer (z2 effort.)


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## Fogdweller (Mar 26, 2004)

alexb618 said:


> yep, training.


I agree with the two above. Stop riding and start training. If you can stand it, get an indoor trainer this winter and do a bunch of lactic threshold work in the garage. If you have a limited time per week to be in the saddle, then every minute must count.


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## sneakyracer (Dec 1, 2007)

I am by no means a strong rider and I have averaged a touch over 26mph while riding with a 30 rider+ group but only for 3-4 continous miles. Even drafting the whole way I am close to my limit. I am dropped after a few miles. This is on flat terrain with little wind. 

My best average on a 2hr ride (solo/small group) is around 19mph on mostly flat terrain with some small hills and some sections with a 10-15mph headwind. I can just about average that solo. But hills and headwind kills my average. 

I tested some aero wheels on a familiar route and I found myself going 2-3mph faster most of the time (there was some head/cross winds)

Bottom line, aero wheels can't hurt. Aerodynamics is a very important part in cycling faster. In certain wind conditions the advantage of an aero wheels is significant. Overall you will be faster, sometimes maybe just a little, other times much more. As usual, YMMV


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## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

Next time you go on that ride look around and see what wheels everyone else is on. I would bet big money that not all of them are on aero wheels. And I bet they still hang on and not get dropped. Sooo, why do you think that is?


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## jtimmer1 (Mar 28, 2009)

There is a ride where I live that brings all the cat1/2 racers out. Averages ~23/24, sometimes almost 25 over about 40 miles. This is more or less a race though and with a peleton of around 75 riders at its peak.

a 30mph group ride doesn't exist.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

Shoot, just add another magnet to your wheel for the speed sensor, now you can average 30 MPH all day!


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

cmg said:


> get a lighter wheelset than the 1550 gram one your using. light at the rim, may not keep you from getting dropped but it will help with the accelarations that happen on group rides.


Yeah, I'm sure those accelerations are just massive.http://forum.slowtwitch.com/cgi-bin...ring=;guest=128527672&t=search_engine#3100973


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

I thought I was pretty accomplished for pulling a 20mph average on my Wednesday night ride on my CX bike. I may hit 25-33mph for short spurts... but an average at 26mph... A-Mazing!

Could that be a your mean? No stop lights, traffic, dogs, potholes, corners, scooters, tree branches or gravel?


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Send me the make and model of your computer so I can show you how to change it from km/h to mph...


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

johng723 said:


> The club ride I go on most weekends can have pacelines of 25+ mph at times, but only on the flatter sections. On any extended climbs, most will drop down to 12-15 mph.


I would love to be able to plow up some of my NorCal hills at 15 mph. I guess I have something to work towards.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Forget wheels, for speed, buy your bike a better engine.


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

What are we supposed to learn from that thread? A bike rider is not the same as a pilot in an F-15? Accelerations matter a lot in cycling. The peak wattage in accelerations is usually huge compared to the steady state wattage of any speed after the acceleration (like 2x). Wether having lighter wheels helps significatly, I don't know.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

dwgranda said:


> What are we supposed to learn from that thread?


You were supposed to learn that acceleration forces are so small for normal cyclist (after all a 2500W world champion accelerating from a full stop only accelerates at ~0.2g) that contrary to how it might feel, acceleration can be neglected in evaluating the impact of equipment on performance.


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

I get what you're trying to say now. Showing that the accelerations are small doesn't mean much to me unless it's also shown that making the small accelerations with different weighted wheels doesn't make much difference. I pulled this from wikipedia, which suggests that wheel weight doesn't mean much. 500g is taking more than 1lb off your wheelset

In a criterium race, a rider is often jumping out of every corner. If the rider has to brake entering each corner (no coasting to slow down), then the KE that is added in each jump is wasted as heat in braking. For a flat crit at 40 km/h, 1 km circuit, 4 corners per lap, 10 km/h speed loss at each corner, one hour duration, 80 kg rider/6.5 kg bike/1.75 kg rims/tires/spokes, there would be 160 corner jumps. This effort adds 387 kilocalories to the 1100 kilocalories required for the same ride at steady speed. Removing 500 g from the wheels, reduces the total body energy requirement by 4.4 kilocalories. If the extra 500 g in the wheels had resulted in a 0.3% reduction in aerodynamic drag factor (worth a 0.02 mph (0.03 km/h) speed increase at 25 mph), the caloric cost of the added weight effect would be canceled by the reduced work to overcome the wind.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

dwgranda said:


> I get what you're trying to say now. Showing that the accelerations are small doesn't mean much to me unless it's also shown that making the small accelerations with different weighted wheels doesn't make much difference.


http://biketechreview.com/reviews/wheels/63-wheel-performance


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

*The fastest I ever was...*

in 1999 at the Mjøsa Rundt (Tour of lake Mjøsa), Norway bike race. It's a granfondo, reasonably flat, and officially 235 km long.










We (the club I was in back then) did it as a double paceline TT, 35 guys in the team, and the intention to keep 15+ riders in the paceline at all times. The "sack" was for eating and resting. We had one car following with spare wheels etc. It was raining heavily all day. The first crash occured after 5 km (Nobody saw the rock in the road. Visibility was utter crap) and later punctures, worn out brake pads, and other calamities took it's toll.

We were 7 riders arriving after 5 hours 56 minutes. Our average speed was *39.6 km/h *(based on the official 235 km distance). That's *24.6 mph*. (My top speed was 79.6 km/h.)
We were the fastest club, some maniacs did the race in 5:52.

(My wheels were the 1st generation 16 spoke Campagnolo Shamal tubulars. By God they hated potholes.)


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## andresmuro (Dec 11, 2007)

Jose Roubaix said:


> I ride with a local group about 30 miles, twice a week at an average of 26-30 mph. Apart from the group rides i do 40 mile rides alone twice a week and occasional 20 mile endurance rides, so I ride about 120-140 miles a week total. I was told that I need better aero wheels to maintain that top speed longer as I eventually get dropped in my group rides. I currently ride 2010 Mavic Elite's (1550gr.). I have set out to get better wheels as was suggested. My budget is $1000.
> 
> My question is if purchasing Zipp 101's or HED Ardennes aero enough for my goal? Or for the given budget should I go heavier than I have now (Mavic Elite 1550gr.) and purchase 2010 Mavic Carbones SL's (1750gr)?
> 
> ...


Your wheels are not what are preventing you from keeping up with the group. Bikes make minimal differences unless you are climbing and your bike is overwhelmingly heavier than others, or time trialing, where the wheels will give you seconds in advantage over a 25 mile TT. Your probably still lack the power to keep up with the high end efforts at +30mph, or probably when you come out of a curve or a stop sign. You need to work on your power. Add a session of sprint training once a week. Find an open road and do 10 sprints all out of 200 yards with total recovery between them, probably 4-5 minute recovery between sprint. Add a session a week of power squats in the gym.


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## cyclesport45 (Dec 10, 2007)

To go that fast, get better parents.


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## BlueGrassBlazer (Aug 4, 2009)

FTR said:


> Remind me not to join your group if they are AVERAGING 26 - 28mph/42 - 45km/h.


Amen to that. It's embarrassing getting dropped in the first 100 yards. :cryin:


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## thirstyman (May 6, 2007)

I agree with the above comments about the engine. However, if your ride is truly averaging 28mph for the 30 miles then it's no shame not to stick for the whole distance. The fastest local ride in my area averages just over 24mph for a 34 mile route with 1200 feet of climbing. 16-20mph on the hills. It's a hard effort ridden like a race with a lot of accelerations. It is damn hard pull through in the extended sections at 27-30 mph with higher surges toward the end. At that speed and after going anaerobic so many times, every little roller/surge makes me feel that death might hurt less. But, hey I'm only a CAT 4 racer among a lot of CAT3s and a few CAT 2s so I should suffer. That said, if it were absolutely flat, I can see a competitive group ride averaging 26-28 for that distance. Thing is I never see totally flat courses in the northeast. The CAT P123 races average 27mph on rolling courses in my region.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

Best for me was 53 miles and the average was mid 22mph. It hurt.

Pack riding skills are a must. You have to be in the front dozen so you aren't in the accordion effect of the back. It's much harder to be off the back. The front dozen usually keep closer wheels and the accelerations aren't magnified as they are further down the pack. When it's your turn up front, don't be a hero. Maintain speed and pull off before you think you have to. Instead of circling all the way to the back, you will most likely see a gap a 1/3 of the way back from the people struggling. Get in front of them. You don't want to be on the wrong side of the rubber band when it snaps.

That alone will buy you a lot more time before getting dropped. I know as it has happened to me a few times.

My peak hour in a race was 23.3mph. Same race I got dropped hard.

-Eric


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## martinrjensen (Sep 23, 2007)

OK, I'm no racer but I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night. 
it doesn't matter what the rides average speed is. You are getting dropped because you are not as strong and or your tactics are not as polished as the other riders.
Use the group as an incentive (to crush) and just train harder. Don't know if you need to up your miles per week (I doubt it) but you most likely need to get some more intensity into the rides. Ride hard, then rest. Give yourself 2 days off before the next group ride if you can after some really intensive training rides.


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## penn_rider (Jul 11, 2009)

*balk*


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## terrapin4 (Aug 2, 2009)

personal anecdote: there is a wednesday ride in my area that is fairly hilly, and averages 24-26 mph on a good day (the bud's ride in san dimas, ca for any locals, quite a few cat 1s show up ). i tried it for the first time last summer, figuring that it wouldn't be too hard to hang onto the back. i was wrong, and it felt like death. a year later, with some reasonably focused training, i can hang for the entire ride on a good day, and even rode off the front for a minute or two last week.

it had absolutely nothing to do with aero wheels, a $3000 bike frame with an uber light build, or top end accessories. i have none of the above. it had everything to do with identifying my weaknesses (flats, peak power, and threshold power) and working to improve them. intervals make all the difference. my weaknesses now are descending in the pack (45 mph descents in a group of 50+ is hairy) and chasing back after someone in front of me sits up and creates a gap. so what is there to take from my anecdote? not getting dropped from a fast group is entirely dependent on your conditioning and your pack skills, not equipment.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

Have you considered simply pedaling faster in the same gear? That should increase your speed as well as anything else and allow you to keep up.


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## ejprez (Nov 9, 2006)

on some paceline rides I acutally ride ineffeciently to get my strength up, super long pulls, multiple attacks. Sometimes play around with cadence, like 85 or 100 depending how I feel. But conditioning and fitness are the big winners when it comes to getting faster. Racing is an easy way, if you have the time, to whip yourself in shape if you force yourself to try and hang.

However spending mony on lighter or more aero stuff is a waste, I'm sure some shops will try to sell you on dropping money on a power meter as if that'll make a difference. Personally I did away with my powertap, my HR monitor does enough. I do have deep dish carbon tubular and they cruise nice. But mavic ksyrium elites are a nice all around wheel. 

I once overheard a guy talk about how he wanted some new ultra light brakes cause, for some reason, he thought they would help him do better in a lunchtime group ride!?!?!


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

ejprez said:


> Personally I did away with my powertap, my HR monitor does enough.


Enough for what? I guess if your ambitions are low enough any equipment will do.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

R3 Sloth said:


> "I can't be the only one with an average speed readout on the computer."
> 
> You're not, it's just too disappointing/painful to post.


No, you're just the only one with a single wheel magnet.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

asgelle said:


> Enough for what? I guess if your ambitions are low enough any equipment will do.



Good point. I wonder how powerful a motor could be stuffed into a Powertap hub shell?


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

dwgranda said:


> I get what you're trying to say now. Showing that the accelerations are small doesn't mean much to me unless it's also shown that making the small accelerations with different weighted wheels doesn't make much difference. I pulled this from wikipedia, which suggests that wheel weight doesn't mean much. 500g is taking more than 1lb off your wheelset
> 
> In a criterium race, a rider is often jumping out of every corner. If the rider has to brake entering each corner (no coasting to slow down), then the KE that is added in each jump is wasted as heat in braking. For a flat crit at 40 km/h, 1 km circuit, 4 corners per lap, 10 km/h speed loss at each corner, one hour duration, 80 kg rider/6.5 kg bike/1.75 kg rims/tires/spokes, there would be 160 corner jumps. This effort adds 387 kilocalories to the 1100 kilocalories required for the same ride at steady speed. Removing 500 g from the wheels, reduces the total body energy requirement by 4.4 kilocalories. If the extra 500 g in the wheels had resulted in a 0.3% reduction in aerodynamic drag factor (worth a 0.02 mph (0.03 km/h) speed increase at 25 mph), the caloric cost of the added weight effect would be canceled by the reduced work to overcome the wind.


Ok, they just made that up.


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

Stage 7 of the TdF averaged 29mph. Stage 6 was 25mph. If you guys average more than that, you should be in the Tour!


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## SROC3 (Jul 20, 2009)

I'm not weekend Crit racer, but do ride pretty hard when it counts. OK....so, 26mph average for 30 miles? In a group.....ok. but alone? That must mean you are in perfect shape and training for the TDF...LOL.

Post your Garmin stats and maybe we can all see any elevation changes that could affect your average speed. Headwind is a factor, but if you claim that kind of average then there must almost no headwind or, like I said, you're training for the TDF


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

gaspi101 said:


> Stage 7 of the TdF averaged 29mph. Stage 6 was 25mph. If you guys average more than that, you should be in the Tour!



That's for 100 plus miles and for three weeks in a row. Throw in some mountains the likes of the alps and you got a whole 'nother level.

-Eric


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## Akez (Aug 13, 2011)

I think you should save your money. Start with your positioning and believe me it might hurt your back and neck, but you will get used to it and the benefits are incredible. Also make sure that you are in the drops when doing a super fast paceline.

Last night during my teams training ride. We did a section for about 10 miles( last part of the ride) where we were pacelining at 32. Unfortunately someone dropped off and I was behind them, and I didn't realize it until it was very late so I had to bridge up for about a minute and a half. But when I got back to the line my legs were so toast and I got more aero by going into the drops when I was on their wheel and it was like the effort dropped 5 mph. It was still hard work, but not nearly as hard. Try it sometime.


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## Wicked2006 (Jul 9, 2005)

I average 21.9 MPH on group rides once a week. Other then that I average 17-18 MPH on 40-50 mile rides. Just ride 10-12 hours a week and ride with faster people then you. Even the pros don't ride 26-35 MPH on training days. They do on race days! That's why their PROS and we aren't!


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## oneslowmofo (Feb 29, 2004)

I'm still waiting for Jose to clarify his average speed comment. Hellooooooo


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

Train.......
May want to get a Cane Creek Speed Bar to help you bridge the gap (when you are about to get dropped) and/or when you are pulling at the front. It saved my arse many times from getting dropped in the group rides.

You may have a hard time getting one since it's discontinued.

Cane Creek Speed Bar road clip-on drops, Black,Cane,Creek,Speed,Bar,road,clip-on,drops,,Black


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## moskowe (Mar 14, 2011)

One of the races I've done this season (Cat 3) was 50 miles at 23mph. The Cat 1 did it at 25. That's 2 hours at 25mph. One hour at 26 = Completely realistic for a seasoned cyclist.


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## Akez (Aug 13, 2011)

moskowe said:


> One of the races I've done this season (Cat 3) was 50 miles at 23mph. The Cat 1 did it at 25. That's 2 hours at 25mph. One hour at 26 = Completely realistic for a seasoned cyclist.


Don't forget the massive amount of drafting that is being done. When drafting it is very easy to hold 23+ for a long time. Unless the course has major climbs.


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## alexp247365 (Dec 29, 2009)

I've seen 25 mph stretches for 5 miles in the garmin data, but not for a 30 mile ride. Factor in the stop signs, turns, and everything else related to living in the city, and most group rides never seem to average much faster than 20mph. Even if there are stretches of 30mph+ riding here and there.


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

Akez said:


> I think you should save your money. Start with your positioning and believe me it might hurt your back and neck, but you will get used to it and the benefits are incredible. Also make sure that you are in the drops when doing a super fast paceline.
> 
> Last night during my teams training ride. We did a section for about 10 miles( last part of the ride) where we were pacelining at 32. Unfortunately someone dropped off and I was behind them, and I didn't realize it until it was very late so I had to bridge up for about a minute and a half. But when I got back to the line my legs were so toast and I got more aero by going into the drops when I was on their wheel and it was like the effort dropped 5 mph. It was still hard work, but not nearly as hard. Try it sometime.


So you bridged a gap solo to a group traveling at 32mph in your hoods, sustaining over 32mph for 1.5 minutes?


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

cpark said:


> Train.......
> May want to get a Cane Creek Speed Bar to help you bridge the gap (when you are about to get dropped) and/or when you are pulling at the front. It saved my arse many times from getting dropped in the group rides.
> 
> You may have a hard time getting one since it's discontinued.
> ...


I have never seen this before! How the heck would one use this? I can't find any pics that show what your body position would be...Very different from aero-bars I use for triathlons...


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

gaspi101 said:


> I have never seen this before! How the heck would one use this? I can't find any pics that show what your body position would be...Very different from aero-bars I use for triathlons...



Attach them near the stem (depends on how narrow you want to get) and put your hands on the drop. It's actually pretty comfortable and I had used in races, training rides and centuries. Scott started its design with Rake which bypass the regulation (not resting the elbow on the bar) about 20 years ago. Not sure if it is still legal in the USCF sanctioned races.

I have both Rake and Speedbar but they are not being used since I'm not in shape to race or to participate any fast training rides....

You may want to check eBay periodically if you want one.


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

cpark said:


> Attach them near the stem (depends on how narrow you want to get) and put your hands on the drop. It's actually pretty comfortable and I had used in races, training rides and centuries. Scott started its design with Rake which bypass the regulation (not resting the elbow on the bar) about 20 years ago. Not sure if it is still legal in the USCF sanctioned races.
> 
> I have both Rake and Speedbar but they are not being used since I'm not in shape to race or to participate any fast training rides....
> 
> You may want to check eBay periodically if you want one.


Weird. I have my aero gars and they suit me...Im trying to picture someone on them, and i cant see it as getting much lower than on the drops, and a lot less comfortable. Am I way off? What's the benefit (if any) over aero bars? Thanks, buddy!


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## Akez (Aug 13, 2011)

xjbaylor said:


> So you bridged a gap solo to a group traveling at 32mph in your hoods, sustaining over 32mph for 1.5 minutes?


Yes I did. That is what a team training ride is for. Go hard and get strong.


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## Gripped (Nov 27, 2002)

illlili said:


> Like you I have been looking for ways to help keep my speed above 25mph but on the flats of A1A in south Florida.


Marchinski ride? That one is a kick in the pants. Intervals and lots of them is what will help you hang on that one.

If it's solo, you need big time aero, true tt bike. Dial in the aero position. And lots of intervals.


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## nasty204 (Apr 2, 2011)

Just started riding 5 months ago, and I can say from an ave of 18 kph to 26 kph was a satisfaction to me.

However , last week's night ride was really phenomenal.

Adrenaline, exhaustion and failing eye sight gave me a 67 km/h speed on a down hill ride, and was grinning all over, until I saw that the cyclo meter was "Dist" not "MX"

Oh well, will take me years and 000 of km's to get to reach the average speed that you guys are discussing.

Need to persevere


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

nasty204 said:


> Just started riding 5 months ago, and I can say from an ave of 18 kph to 26 kph was a satisfaction to me.
> 
> However , last week's night ride was really phenomenal.
> 
> ...


I hear that...im right now having breakfast getting ready for my 7am saturday group ride, where they average 21mph, with a few 25-26mph sprints, for about 60 miles. I get dropped every single week. But I hang on a little longer each week. I think in about two months, I wont be getting dropped anymore. Just keep working and training. That's the key.


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## Mtl_Rookie (Jul 24, 2011)

I have to agree with most ppl posted above with averaging 23-25 mph or so....30 being a tough haul. I'm just thinking he wants some new wheels for a training substitute. I do weekly group rides 60 miles and when we get the good stretch and average 23 mph or so I can't even lead for more than 30 seconds and get dropped, I've been training just to keep up in the pack and once and while "try" the lead for fun.


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## Jose Roubaix (Mar 12, 2010)

Now that everyone one that needed an ego boost stopped talking crap, here is my reply:

RShea: Thank you, you were right. I got to speak to some of the guys in the ride as months have passed by and they kept mentioning intervals. I was doing interval rides once a week. Now I dedicate a whole to intervals, then I continue with different rides through the month.

illili: Thank you for your suggestion. I was very impressed with these wheels until I decided on different ones.

FTR: Your funny. Do you have a day job?

Wookiebiker: I'm impressed, you actually have the time to research my profile (5 posts) and come up with these smarty comments. I bet you spend more time on your computer than on your bike! The funny thing is you never did what the post ask for, ANSWER THE BLEEPIN QUESTION! Your so caught up trying to boost your ego, you never answered my question. All you did was waste posts. As a matter of fact your a waste of a post. How sad!

For the rest of you: Thank you very much for your reply. Most were truly very helpful. As an update, I have lost 20 lbs. and I am now weighing 215 lbs, not bad for a 6'1" man. I've been keeping up with my group rides and have joined a longer 40 mile ride. My true average speed through a series of twenty logged 40 mile rides is 19.5 mph. I forgot to mention that I do live in the flats of South Florida and there is no hill in site except for beautiful long bay bridges. Btw the bridges make for great interval rides. I usually loop bridges three times in one interval ride to get the beneficial effects of going up hill. 

As for wheels that I chose. I researched many options, but in the end I got the opportunity to buy a pair of used Zipp 404 Clinchers. A fellow cyclist who I have become friends with decided he wanted the Zipp Carbon Clinchers instead and offered these to me for purchase. The wheelset was inspected by our LBS and they were cleared of any defects or damages. I've ridden them now for months and I'm glad I shelled out the extra cash for them. I am currently running Continental 4000's. The wheel ride great. They maintain speed and accelerate fast. God Bless.


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## Jose Roubaix (Mar 12, 2010)

dedicate a whole week*


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

You waited almost a year to come back and post to basically call people out for being rude or whatever to you? Maybe you aren't riding enough, it seems like you have some energy left over for less than valuable interactions.


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## Oxymoron (May 11, 2012)

26-28 average? Wow!


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## Oxymoron (May 11, 2012)

I usually average 20-22 and that's pushing it for a couple hours. 26-28 is amazing. I guess I'm getting old.


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## pigpen (Sep 28, 2005)

Although fast I can see some situations that it could be possible.

We did the MS 150 (75x2days) and our group did 75 in 3.25 hrs averaging 23mph. (second day was much more casual)
We are no racers. Just a bunch of overweight middle aged farts.


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## vagabondcyclist (Apr 2, 2011)

And let's remember, the UCI's hour record: 30.882 mph by Ondřej Sosenka. That's using "regular" equipment--no aero helmet, no tri spoke or disc wheels, etc. And that's on a closed, banked track.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

His real average speed was 19.5! So different from the original speed claim.

And who waits a year to reply to a thread? Seriously? That is some stalker/serial killer type mentality there.


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## blisteronmyfoot (Dec 28, 2010)

So out of curiosity, which wheelsets did you research? I am looking for a new set and am about to scour the forums...


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## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

blisteronmyfoot said:


> So out of curiosity, which wheelsets did you research? I am looking for a new set and am about to scour the forums...


He just googled "wheelsets that will maintane 26 to 28 mph". Apparently the answer is Zipp 404s, look no further.


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## Jose Roubaix (Mar 12, 2010)

Your hillarious! I waited a year because people like you are no help to a novice that was trying to explain himself a year ago. Now that I have enough time logged on my bike, I want to update my post. BTW Go do something productive. Go get on your little tri bike.


nightfend said:


> His real average speed was 19.5! So different from the original speed claim.
> 
> And who waits a year to reply to a thread? Seriously? That is some stalker/serial killer type mentality there.


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## greg12666 (Mar 29, 2012)

I went out the other day and averaged 65 MPH.. LOL


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## rider9 (May 27, 2011)

Pablo said:


> Forget wheels, for speed, buy your bike a better engine.


^this!

I feel good if I average 16 mph over two hours.

I rode the other day and went 41 miles in three hours. This included some hills. Of course, I am an old geezer who just started riding again last June.


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

Jose Roubaix said:


> Your hillarious! I waited a year because people like you are no help to a novice that was trying to explain himself a year ago. Now that I have enough time logged on my bike, I want to update my post. BTW Go do something productive. Go get on your little tri bike.


I am just proud of you for coming back and posting your real (reasonably fast) group ride averages. Most people have so much internet bravado they wouldn't be willing to do that. 

Good choice on the wheels, good job on the weight loss.


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## Jose Roubaix (Mar 12, 2010)

I researched several deep wheelsets. Easton, Mavic, Reynolds, Zipp, even Boyd. 

2011 Easton's EC90 Aero- These were the front runner for a while due to quality and them being carbon clinchers. The con for me was ceramic bearings due to my weight (215lbs). I would probably end up wearing them out faster than I would like to and ceramic bearings are expensive. 
2011 Mavic Carbone SL's- These were actually my first buy. Strong wheels, good looking, Mavic quality. I rode them for a while, approx. 400 miles. I personally did not feel any considerable advantage with these wheels compared to my 2010 Mavic Elite's. I was told the actual rim is heavier than most deep rim clinchers, affecting it's rolling resistance. Maybe someone can help me to explain that better. So I sold them on Craigslist.
2011 Reynolds Attack and Assault- Great feedback on these wheels, but none of the LBS carried them. I couldn't hold them which made me feel like I was buying an expensive car without knowing what the interior looks like. I saw photos, but not the actual product in my hand.
2011 Boyd 58mm Clinchers- Same thing as Reynolds.
2011 Zipp 404 Clinchers- If I had the money to buy them brand new these would be the wheels I would of bought. Great reviews, great feedback, phenomenal quality. I'm not just saying this because I own them. Every single LBS had a set of these wheels. Customers, shop owners, mechanics, and fellow cyclists all kept praising the quality of these wheels from personal experiences. Furthermore, they come with high quality, super round-stainless ball bearings made by a Swiss company. Zipp's bearings are known for being one of the best in the industry. If you happen to get your hands on a Zipp wheel you'll understand why. If you give them a spin they seem to never stop spinning. As mentioned before I bought these used. I had a trusted bike shop mechanic examine them and I bought them for $1400. The wheels were well taken care of by a fellow cyclist so I could not turn the deal down. 




blisteronmyfoot said:


> So out of curiosity, which wheelsets did you research? I am looking for a new set and am about to scour the forums...


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## Jose Roubaix (Mar 12, 2010)

xjbaylor said:


> I am just proud of you for coming back and posting your real (reasonably fast) group ride averages. Most people have so much internet bravado they wouldn't be willing to do that.
> 
> Good choice on the wheels, good job on the weight loss.


Thank you. I appreciate that.


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

Jose Roubaix said:


> Zipp's bearings are known for being one of the best in the industry. If you happen to get your hands on a Zipp wheel you'll understand why. If you give them a spin they seem to never stop spinning. As mentioned before I bought these used. I had a trusted bike shop mechanic examine them and I bought them for $1400. The wheels were well taken care of by a fellow cyclist so I could not turn the deal down.


While there is nothing wrong with their bearings, one of the reasons they spin so long when not weighted is they are designed to "float" in that they are not pre-loaded at all until the rider has weighted the bike. 

I don't think that their is any difference in the bearings that Zipp sources vs. what other quality manufacturers are using. If there is, it isn't an appreciable difference. I have the Reynolds DV46c UL and the Zipp 404 full carbon clincher and could not begin to tell a difference between the bearings used by DT and Zipp. I will say the Zipps flex more, the Reynolds are lighter and accelerate faster, and the Zipps hold speed better and are better in crosswinds. 

There are appreciable differences between all the wheels you tested, but bearing quality is most likely not one of them. For what it is worth, as an every day, every ride, every condition wheel, I think that you made the best choice out of that group.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

Jose Roubaix said:


> For the rest of you: Thank you very much for your reply. Most were truly very helpful. As an update, I have lost 20 lbs. and I am now weighing 215 lbs, not bad for a 6'1" man. I've been keeping up with my group rides and have joined a longer 40 mile ride. My true average speed through a series of twenty logged 40 mile rides is 19.5 mph. I forgot to mention that I do live in the flats of South Florida and there is no hill in site except for beautiful long bay bridges. Btw the bridges make for great interval rides. I usually loop bridges three times in one interval ride to get the beneficial effects of going up hill.
> 
> As for wheels that I chose. I researched many options, but in the end I got the opportunity to buy a pair of used Zipp 404 Clinchers. A fellow cyclist who I have become friends with decided he wanted the Zipp Carbon Clinchers instead and offered these to me for purchase. The wheelset was inspected by our LBS and they were cleared of any defects or damages. I've ridden them now for months and I'm glad I shelled out the extra cash for them. I am currently running Continental 4000's. The wheel ride great. They maintain speed and accelerate fast. God Bless.


No need to acknowledge the noise if you don't like what others post. This part of your reply is great to hear. Often, people ask questions and don't follow up with a little work. Learning to bury yourself is a lost art for most. You did the work and rewarded yourself with a great set of wheels for flatland riding. The differences between your wheels and the latest and greatest get much smaller. 

Keep the rubber side down and enjoy the riding.


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## akamp (Jan 14, 2009)

I don't know why people are saying you can't have a group ride averaging 26mph. The shootout here in Tucson every Saturday averages that on a relatively regular basis. Generally about 5 miles to warm up and then 45 miles trying to hang-on and then 5 miles relatively easy back to the start for coffee. It can be a real bitc h if people are feeling feisty.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I feel like there's a big difference between a ride that averages 26 mph and a ride that hits a 26 mph work unit, even a long one.


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## akamp (Jan 14, 2009)

AndrwSwitch said:


> I feel like there's a big difference between a ride that averages 26 mph and a ride that hits a 26 mph work unit, even a long one.


You are right about that, however there are group rides that are that fast. This weeks shootout averaged 26.7 for about 42 miles. That is a long work unit including about 1200 feet of climbing. So in this case anything that can help you hang on is a godsend, especially when the climbs are at 24mph.


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## ScottsSupersix (Mar 25, 2012)

I haven't yet seen a ride group in my area that maintains a 26-30 mph average on 30 mile training rides, so you have a very fast group there. Our fastest groups are around 24mph average, maybe a bit more. Any of those wheels should be fine, assuming you can push the watts needed to maintain those speeds.


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

You want your real average, you take the distance traveled and divide by the amount of minutes your ass was on the saddle and multiply by 60. Period. I'm with the groups of people that are a little skeptical about the 26mph average. Our group rides hit the 30s for extended periods of time, and on 60 mile rides, we average 22-23. To actually average 26mph on a 55 mile ride, you'd have to be pedaling 33 to 35mpg for about 90% of the ride. Not that this is impossible--it is just very very unusual for an amateur group ride. That's TdF numbers, people.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

That's why average speed is useless.


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## sadisticnoob (Dec 6, 2009)

i find it hard to believe that it is possible to maintain 26-28 mph average speed while including traffic light stops .

the fastest group ride i had with 30+ riders was at 36kph.(about 22mph)\

180312 Joyriders by sadisticnoob at Garmin Connect - Details


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## malanb (Oct 26, 2009)

sadisticnoob said:


> i find it hard to believe that it is possible to maintain 26-28 mph average speed while including traffic light stops .
> 
> the fastest group ride i had with 30+ riders was at 36kph.(about 22mph)\
> 
> .... In the last 5 years of riding, I've trained on roads with no traffic lights... Free way, circuits etc.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Jose Roubaix said:


> For the rest of you: Thank you very much for your reply. Most were truly very helpful. As an update, I have lost 20 lbs. and I am now weighing 215 lbs, not bad for a 6'1" man. I've been keeping up with my group rides and have joined a longer 40 mile ride. My true average speed through a series of twenty logged 40 mile rides is 19.5 mph. I forgot to mention that I do live in the flats of South Florida and there is no hill in site except for beautiful long bay bridges. Btw the bridges make for great interval rides. I usually loop bridges three times in one interval ride to get the beneficial effects of going up hill.


Good for you for persevering! I am glad your strategy has worked for you, many would have just given up.


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## Jose Roubaix (Mar 12, 2010)

love4himies said:


> Good for you for persevering! I am glad your strategy has worked for you, many would have just given up.


Thank you


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Jose Roubaix said:


> Wookiebiker: I'm impressed, you actually have the time to research my profile (5 posts) and come up with these smarty comments. I bet you spend more time on your computer than on your bike! The funny thing is you never did what the post ask for, ANSWER THE BLEEPIN QUESTION! Your so caught up trying to boost your ego, you never answered my question. All you did was waste posts. As a matter of fact your a waste of a post. How sad!


So...you waited a year to call me out...then admitted the truth as noted below??? :idea:



> My true average speed through a series of twenty logged 40 mile rides is 19.5 mph. I forgot to mention that I do live in the flats of South Florida and there is no hill in site except for beautiful long bay bridges.


So basically, you came on the forum, lied about your average speed...then come back a year later to try and call out those that doubted (and were correct) about your average speed?

Dude...you need a therapist...I should know as I am one.

I answer all kinds of posts in an honest fashion...if you had taken a little time to look you might have figured that out (a year on the forum would have shown as much). However, when people jump on here with rather dubious claims, I'll call them out for what they are.

Why should I answer your post when it's obvious you are lying about your speeds? Seriously, why?

As for spending more time on my computer than my bike...you may be right as I do spend a lot of time on my computer at work and home. I do however put in about 11-14 hours a week on my bike and at my last ITT I had a "Real" average speed of 28.2 mph (11.5 miles in 24:34).

So...before you spend a year trying to come up with an adaquate diss of people, try telling the truth in your posts, you might be surprised...those of us that have been on the forum for a "LONG" time might actually give you good advice. Until then...expect stupid answers and disrespectful posts.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

Jose Roubaix said:


> For the rest of you: Thank you very much for your reply. Most were truly very helpful. As an update, I have lost 20 lbs. and I am now weighing 215 lbs, not bad for a 6'1" man. I've been keeping up with my group rides and have joined a longer 40 mile ride. My true average speed through a series of twenty logged 40 mile rides is 19.5 mph. I forgot to mention that I do live in the flats of South Florida and there is no hill in site except for beautiful long bay bridges.


So you went from doing 26-28mph avg, to then 19.5 avg with your new wheels all while being in *better* shape? Good lord RETURN THOSE NEW WHEELS ASAP! And don't thank these people who advised you to buy - what exactly were they again? Triangluar stone wheels?? You should be infuriated! Terrible advice. Just terrible.


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## cyclesport45 (Dec 10, 2007)

All that REALLY counts, is can you hang with the fast group? If you can hang, you belong. Numbers mean very little.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

I think this is being blown way out of proportion. I have a feeling the original intent was not to have average ride speeds in the 26-28mph range, rather the ability to maintain those speeds for a longer period. I know what he wrote, but I doubt that's what he meant. He even clarified later.


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## Trower (Apr 28, 2009)

ergott said:


> I think this is being blown way out of proportion. I have a feeling the original intent was not to have average ride speeds in the 26-28mph range, rather the ability to maintain those speeds for a longer period. I know what he wrote, but I doubt that's what he meant. He even clarified later.


+1

Sometimes I hate being a part of the "biker" crowd for reasons such as this. 

Jose good job man! Hope to see you around here more


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

ergott said:


> I have a feeling the original intent was not to have average ride speeds in the 26-28mph range, rather the ability to maintain those speeds for a longer period. I know what he wrote, but I doubt that's what he meant. He even clarified later.


I know I know, this really doesn't matter but I'm bored and want to type something. That's a perfectly reasonable and a convenient explanation, but I think it's pretty obvious he was really just trying to flex his muscles. You probably know better and want to help him with a nice out, but IMO he totally walked into it and had it coming



Jose Roubaix said:


> I ride with a local group about 30 miles, twice a week at an average of 26-30 mph.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Averaging 26 mph on a 40-50 mi ride is hard, and averaging 28 mph on the same ride is IMPOSSIBLE. And averaging 24 mph on a climb (like a claim in here) is pure bs! As if this claim is not outrageous enough,.. apparently the claim is with regard to a whole group of weekend warriors. Weekend warrios putting the pros to shame, only on RBR.

Now back to reality. Let's take a look at some data point.

1) On one of the semi-tough mountain stage (I forget which one) in the Giro tour, the speed average of the peleton was just over 23 mph. Remember, these are top notched pros, many of them probably on dope, just to pull out a tad 23 mph. But on RBR, weekend warriors can do 24 mph.

2) Lance Armstrong at his best, with EPO assisted and all, once (ie, not all the time) managed to do a 30k solo TT averaging just a tad over 30 mph. At his best. But on RBR, weekend warrior peloton can do 30-33 mph no problemo.

3) Go watch any short track racing on youtube. The most powerful short distance track sprinters in the world pedal up to about 30-33 mph on the penultimate lap before exploding up to 43 mph for about 10 seconds for the final lap. This is in their slick skin suit indoor with no wind. Not a match for most RBR peleton on their road bike, not track bike, over 40-50 miles in the outdoor with regular cycling clothes. RBR peloton is the shizzle yo!

People on RBR exaggerate their time and speed like guys on MTBR exaggerate their "knarly 15 foot drop onto flat". And I find it a little amusing that every guy here likes to claim that their regional crit is the most wicked. It's ok though, no harm in living out a little fantasy. I do it too! :idea:


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## dfvcador (Jun 4, 2006)

sneakyracer said:


> I am by no means a strong rider and I have averaged a touch over 26mph while riding with a 30 rider+ group but only for 3-4 continous miles. Even drafting the whole way I am close to my limit. I am dropped after a few miles. This is on flat terrain with little wind.
> 
> My best average on a 2hr ride (solo/small group) is around 19mph on mostly flat terrain with some small hills and some sections with a 10-15mph headwind. I can just about average that solo. But hills and headwind kills my average.
> 
> YMMV


Lets make sure you understand that average spd is calculated base on time and the total miles ridden over that time frame. So you cant say that you average 26 mph over 3-4 miles when you are riding 30 to 40 miles. A correct statement would be that you had acceleration periods or spurts of 26-30 mph, which is more credible. And if you are able to withstand that intensity avg of 26 mph you should be knocking on the doors some of the pro-teams.

Additionally, its a known fact in the cycling world that hills and headwind will lower your average due to the extra resistance from the wind and effort that you give to climb a hill. If you are averaging 19 mph solo, which is more credible, I dont see how you increase your average by 7-11 mph when you are in a group ride. You may want to purchase a cyclocomputer with avg. spd feature to obtain true data.


I average during my solo rides between 18-19 mph depending on the route I choose. When I do a group ride we average about 22-23 depending on the route. Now during the ride we have several periods that we are cruising at 27-28mph but that is not our average. 

Bottom line aero wheels will not improve your Avg spd unless you train and improve your machine (positioning, core strength, leg strength and heart) .

Good Luck


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## akamp (Jan 14, 2009)

Once again group rides like that do exist. If you are on Strava just search for: 
Shootout, S. of Valencia Granted this is only part of the ride, 41 out of the 50 miles but 26mph for that 41 miles isn't out of the ordinary. If you can hang with the lead group, well thats the real question.


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

Jose, where in South Florida are you? I'm in Miami.


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## pooa564 (Jun 24, 2012)

Thanks for the response!


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## Jose Roubaix (Mar 12, 2010)

I live in Miami as well. I mostly ride in Key Biscayne or Brickell area. I also ride in Hollywood with larger groups.


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## T0mi (Mar 2, 2011)

akamp said:


> Once again group rides like that do exist. If you are on Strava just search for:
> Shootout, S. of Valencia Granted this is only part of the ride, 41 out of the 50 miles but 26mph for that 41 miles isn't out of the ordinary. If you can hang with the lead group, well thats the real question.


checked. 

Seriously, a 2% grade is not a climb, it's not even hard enough for us to call that a false flat. Come join us in Switzerland, we'll gladly show you what is a climb.


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## akamp (Jan 14, 2009)

T0mi said:


> checked.
> 
> Seriously, a 2% grade is not a climb, it's not even hard enough for us to call that a false flat. Come join us in Switzerland, we'll gladly show you what is a climb.


So are you saying you are maintaining 26mph climbing the 10% grades in the Swiss Alps?? You swiss riders must be strong. You would think with all those strong riders there would be more than two past TDF winners in the past, especially since you are in your home turf.

I don't think I ever said that this ride would be considered a hillclimb but when you are hanging with the lead group that 2% grade shells a lot of people.


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## gaspi101 (May 12, 2011)

Jose Roubaix said:


> I live in Miami as well. I mostly ride in Key Biscayne or Brickell area. I also ride in Hollywood with larger groups.


Awesome. I ride with Team Jama, Tuesdays and Thursdays at 5:45am out of the Grove and Sat&Sun out of South miami at 7:30am for longer rides (60 miles or so) we also do longer rides to the keys every other Saturday with Team Nutralite (100 miles or more). Anyhow, good ride and safe travels to you, brother.


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