# Embrocation?



## roadent

What do you use? How do you use it?

What about homemade leg juice, got any recipes?

I've been running knee warmers, which worked ok... but there are times when running through the wet, I'd like more protection. Got any tips?


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## DavidK

*Icy Hot and Ben Gay*

I use Icy Hot and/or Ben Gay with oil or vasoline when its quite cold or windy. I would like to hear from others with more info on this subject. David K.


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## Spunout

SportsBalm products, have a great range of X, XX, or XXX Hot rubs. For a real bad day, put a layer of vaseline over top of the embrocation.


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## euro-trash

I've used several brands over the years (Record, Born) and I really like them. I'm thinking of experimenting this weekend. The main active ingredient is Cayenne pepper. I'm thinking a base similar to Chamois cream but with some added Cayenne and Weather shield should do the trick. I'll just have to make sure I don't mistake it for my Chamois cream!!!! 

BTW, I did get tired of spending $150 a year on Assos cream, so I make my own. It's not quite as good, but it's not bad, and it runs about $5 per 12 oz, instead of $16 for 8 oz. If anyone wants the "recipe", let me know.


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## cbass

*recipe please*

BTW, I did get tired of spending $150 a year on Assos cream, so I make my own. It's not quite as good, but it's not bad, and it runs about $5 per 12 oz, instead of $16 for 8 oz. If anyone wants the "recipe", let me know.[/QUOTE]


yeah, what's the recipe?


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## euro-trash

*here's the recipe*

Get a jar of Utterly Smooth (this is not the same thing as bag balm. There is a conception they are the same, but utterly smooth is a lotion and bag balm is a Vaseline-type goop that is not good because it blocks pores). Utterly Smooth is $3.88 for 12 oz at Satan’s Workshop (Walmart). For a couple of days, just use straight Utterly Smooth to make room in the jar (using straight Utterly Smooth isn’t too bad in its own right). Once you’re opened-up about 2 oz of room in the jar (so, I’m not scientific) add 3 parts witch hazel and 1 one part tea tree oil. Now, the Tea Tree ($4 a bottle which is good for 7-8 bottles of Utterly Smooth) provides a little of the tingle which Assos provides (albeit not as pronounced) while the Witch Hazel is the astringent. This is the key, it kills bacteria. Just shake it up and you’re good to go. You can experiment with consistency, I find I prefer it with a little additional Witch Hazel which makes slightly less viscous than Assos. 

Now, if you want to be fancy, you can add some Squeaky Cheeks (I think it’s squeakycheeks.com), which is a powder that contains menthol, to replicate the tingling of Assos. Again, I’m not real scientific about it, you’ll have to experiment with the desired amount. Hope this helps. 


I'll post here if my homemade embrocation works.


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## dudleydudley

Can I be really stupid and ask what the point of embrocation is? 

This is going to sound really gay (not that there's anything wrong with that), but I used to run an internet business that sold skincare stuff. One of the things I learned there was that stuff like menthol, peppermint, clove oil, and things that make your skin all tingly are REALLY bad for your skin. It's tingly for a reason, and if you are allergic or have a bad reaction to dermal contact with this essential oils, for some people it can be fatal. That's why you shouldn't shave with shaving cream that has those things in there. Well that's what I learned, anyway, and take it for what you will.

But the question is, what does this stuff actually do for you besides make your legs feel warm? I should say that I used to use the Icy Hot and Vaseline thing not too long ago.


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## jroden

I think the main objective is to put a protective layer on your skin to keep it a little warmer, let the water and mud run off and enable an easier parking lot cleanup with a towel and some water after the race. I use mineral oil or baby oil or vaseline if it is frostbite weather. I believe the embrocation products are all counter irritants that work by producing some sort of skin irritation. Cramer's Atomic Balm is among the most obnoxious, if you remember that one from your old high school harrier days. The "irritant" component is easially tested if one has some on their hands and visits the restroom without washing up, but I guess this mostly applies to us boys. For me, getting a good shave on my legs and a thick coat of oil on a cold day is part of putting my game face on for a race in the rain, I don't know if it really makes a difference, but I've done it for 20 years so I keep doing it. I can't imagine spending good money for embrocation products, but what do I know.


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## Dwayne Barry

dudleydudley said:


> Can I be really stupid and ask what the point of embrocation is? QUOTE]
> 
> To provide the ultimate Euro-cool effect, of course!
> Seriously, most people use it to "warm" up their muscles, etc. but I don't think they really do that. The "hot" ones are mainly skin irritants and if anything do just the opposite of warming you up, they bring blood to the surface where it is more easily cooled. If you truly want some kind of warming effect, you're probably best just using petroleum jelly, to provide an insulating effect. Probably the "non-hot" oils do this to some extent. For me, I like them because they smell good.


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## atpjunkie

*some*

have barrier (petrolatum products) that keep the skin drier. I've used versions on rainy road rides where I covered the backs of my upper legs as well (hamstrings) and I found I was able to ride more comfortably in the cold and wet for longer durations. I don't use most of the irritant syle but have for warming up. I like to put a mild warmer on when I wake up, long before race or ride time. then I just try to waterproof.


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## dudleydudley

Dwayne Barry said:


> To provide the ultimate Euro-cool effect, of course!
> Seriously, most people use it to "warm" up their muscles, etc. but I don't think they really do that. The "hot" ones are mainly skin irritants and if anything do just the opposite of warming you up, they bring blood to the surface where it is more easily cooled. If you truly want some kind of warming effect, you're probably best just using petroleum jelly, to provide an insulating effect. Probably the "non-hot" oils do this to some extent. For me, I like them because they smell good.


Ok, got it. As long as we realize that it actually doesn't do anything to the muscle, and if nothing else I think it provides a false sense that you muscles are actually warm, which may actually increase your risk of injury, right?


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## MarvinK

Is anyone still doing homemade embrocation? I've got a couple different types of Mad Alchemy stuff and am pretty happy with it.


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## RRRoubaix

Ya, I use the Mad Alchemy as well.
I recently got some Born stuff that you put on and then apply oil on top of it. Might try it tomorrow, although it won't be that cold... (50 degrees) Gonna rain like hell though.

Embrocation is always a controversial subject.
I "feel better" when I use it- but that may be either psychological or a side effect of the viscous goop protecting my knees from wind and rain. None of my "Belgian knee warmer" products have been all that hot- I can't handle full on capsaicin. That's just irritating.
(Note: all embrocations I've tried get REALLY hot when showering afterwards :yikes: )


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## deuxdiesel

I use the Mad Alchemy medium stuff, and it's pretty damn hot, especially under the elastic of my shorts. I forgot a change of boxers a few weeks ago and drove an hour home in my shorts and that stuff was getting uncomfortable. Yes, the shower afterwards is always interesting.


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## Morison

*Same here...*

I have used various forms of embrocation from Sports Balm, BORN, Quoleum, and Mad Alchemy to name a few. I lean toward the versions that are only mildly warming, or not warming at all for the late spring/summer/early fall. The characteristic that I appreciate most is the barrier that they seem to form against a cool wind or mist. The benefits of embrocation will always be debated, but the psychosomatic effect certainly appears to work on me. 

RRRoubaix, can you tell me where you get BORN. A few years ago a former importer explained to me that they chose to no longer serve the US market because of our "strict" labelling regulations. I've tried to order it directly from them only to receive an email a day or two later stating that they cannot ship to the US. Oddly enough, I've gotten the same response from an online retailer in the UK and was even told the same thing by an ebay business member from Spain. I'd like to be able to get a couple of their products again. Thanks in advance for the help.


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## olapequena

for a nice warming paste/rub just do the following:

mix equal parts olive oil and real cayenne powder (ask at a organic market for the hottest they have) and let sit for a while (like a month) shaking every couple of days. 

heat up the oil (just pour it off the powder) in a well ventilated space and add some beeswax. put in a jar. I suppose the easiest way to do it would just nuke it taking care not to 'burn' or boil it, in the jar you want to actually use. 

you can also add other stuff to it for different effects (clove oil, peppermint, eucalyptus etc..) but I'll let you look up those recipes/properties. 

making this stuff always makes my heart race. not really sure why


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## Corndog

Mad Alchemy for me. I have the non warming team issue (which I use most often), the Gentleman's blend, and the medium.


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## backinthesaddle

Mad Alchemy and just be done with it. I use the medium and the warm weather rubs. Both work very well, aren't horribly expensive and are handmade by cycling enthusiasts. 
That being said, a couple of team-mates are about to release their own signature brand...stay tuned.


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## tausugcyclist

*Something to look at*

I have been using a product from the Denver area called Routine Leg Works. Good stuff and local to me.


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## Dream Plus

I like the smell too. It reminds me of the hippies that lived above me 20 years ago.

I liked the oil with tint in it too, so you wouldn't want to look like one of the McCormack brothers in March.




Dwayne Barry said:


> dudleydudley said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can I be really stupid and ask what the point of embrocation is? QUOTE]
> 
> To provide the ultimate Euro-cool effect, of course!
> Seriously, most people use it to "warm" up their muscles, etc. but I don't think they really do that. The "hot" ones are mainly skin irritants and if anything do just the opposite of warming you up, they bring blood to the surface where it is more easily cooled. If you truly want some kind of warming effect, you're probably best just using petroleum jelly, to provide an insulating effect. Probably the "non-hot" oils do this to some extent. For me, I like them because they smell good.
Click to expand...


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## Smoothy

Northwest Kneewarmers embro is the one I've tried. Like the other poster said - becomes insane after the post-ride shower..can't think straight it's so hot. I use it in Nov/Dec races.


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## spankye

It seems like the vaseline thing to create the barrier is popular, so would it be too far off to think about adding stuff to Bag Balm for a home made embro?


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## ZoomBoy

Mad Alchemy here too. The owner essentially makes the stuff in his kitchen.


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## mcoplea

+1 for the Northwest Kneewarmers. Great stuff and we now have all 3 versions of their product.


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## fasteddy07

I am a Mad Alchemy Fan. Even bought the T Shirt 

And for those who were talking about the post ride shower heat show.. Take it off after the race with rubbing alcohol or witch hazel and some towels. You don't want to leave that on there too long and you need industrial chemicals to defeat the bee's wax..


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## mpk1996

I just started using the DZ nuts - In Heat stuff. they have 3 levels and it works real good. lasts for about 4-5 hours, so good for those longer rides. and hey, you have to support a company called DZNuts right?!


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## tailgunn

Pardon me if this is ignorant but why not just wear some winter tights? Don't they work well enough?


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## Traildog

Tights hold water and mud. In wet muddy races your legs are going to get very heavy. Not fun and it slows you down.


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## pretender

https://mollycameron.com/2010/10/27/re-embrocation-choices/


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## tailgunn

Traildog said:


> Tights hold water and mud. In wet muddy races your legs are going to get very heavy. Not fun and it slows you down.


Ahh, I get it.


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## Mike T.

I ride an indoor velodrome with a fellow who makes his own. A couple of years ago I was riding the boards and I smelled a smell I hadn't smelled for decades - the smell of leg embrocation at early-morning time trials in the UK. It took me back forty six years. I came off the track to check it out and it was my buddy Orlando who was stinking up the place. Here's his recipe.
*
Orlando's Extraordinary Embrocation
1 part generic baby oil.
1 part generic rubbing alcohol.
1 part Sloan's liniment or 'Heet!' These 2 products are becoming difficult to find. Look for substitutes that contain ''capsaicin" - it's the essential ingredient you want.
0.5 part generic camphorated oil
This will give you a solution that will warm your muscles so that you can race/train in temperatures ranging from about 15 to 18 degrees Celsius in shorts. Wearing tights, even very light lycra ones will generate more heat.
When it is colder add a bit more of the last two.
When it is warmer add a bit more of the 2nd one.
You can also add a few drops of eucalyptus oil to the solution, I think it improves circulation.
A drop or two of eucalyptus oil on a swab of cotton or tissue inserted into the nostrils and inhaled will clear your air passages and lungs.
I have also added a 'dash' of oil of wintergreen. But don't use too much of this as it can damage tendons and ligaments if overused. However, it does help the solution to penetrate the muscle tissue. *


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## Keeping up with Junior

*Tea Time*



Morison said:


> I have used various forms of embrocation from ...BORN, Quoleum, and Mad Alchemy to name a few....


Started with the Born and like it until it became unavailable. Quoleum was different and okay but I did not feel it stayed as well in wet conditions. Started using Mad Alchemy and have been happy with it. I also prefer the medium heat and my currrent favorite in the lineup is the Russian Tea.

http://madalchemy.com/products/russiantea.html

Since I often apply my embrocation from the trunk of my car at ride starts that do not have anywhere I can wash my hands I carry a latex exam glove. I can wear the glove and apply a coating of embrocation, pull the glove off (inside out) and not have to worry about having hot stuff on my hands when eating, wiping sweat off my face, aiming my tallywhacker or wiping elsewhere. A couple of paper towels to wipe off afterwards is helpful too.


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## MarvinK

Russian Tea is my favorite, as well.. although I have some high hopes of the Chris Jones blend... at least from a smell perspective: http://madalchemy.com/products/PSL/chrisjones.html

How much before your race to you put on the embrocation?


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## chrisg

mpk1996 said:


> I just started using the DZ nuts - In Heat stuff. they have 3 levels and it works real good. lasts for about 4-5 hours, so good for those longer rides. and hey, you have to support a company called DZNuts right?!


Just bought the "medium" of this today on a whim. Hoping it's not too hot for me to handle.


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## akrafty1

another vote for the MA products. Medium is the prefference.


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## Kram

I usually put on right after I put my kit on, which is anywhere from 1 hr to 45 minutes before the race. Esp on cold days.


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## ms6073

Keeping up with Junior said:


> Started using Mad Alchemy and have been happy with it. I also prefer the medium heat...
> 
> I can wear the glove and apply a coating of embrocation, pull the glove off (inside out) and not have to worry about having hot stuff on my hands when eating, wiping sweat off my face, aiming my tallywhacker or wiping elsewhere.


Had been using the Qoleum but decided to give the Mad Alchemy Medium a try - nice tent, smell is not 'locker room' like Qoleum and once on, the stuff keeps on warming for 4-6 hours. Got to second the caution about making sure this stuff is not on your fingers as Saturday, nearly 2-hours after application, I somehow managed to get some on my fingertip just before wiping sweat from my eye - yeoowoza! Here it is nearly mid-day Monday and despite application of prescription strenth cortisone cream (for Poison Ivy), the skin under my eye is still somewhat irritated and sore.


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## spankye

Just got my MA in medium and mellow. Awesome stuff. i did a couple of test spots last night and am wondering how red everyone's legs get when using it. once heated up, you could def tell where i had applied it. and i can't imagine anyone using anything hotter than the medium!


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## ZoomBoy

In my bag I have the MA non-warming, Chocolate Wish, Uber Secret and I just bought some of the Molly Cameron blend. I have not tried the MC blend yet but plan to soon. I also like the start sticks and their chamois creams are pretty good too.... I find that the stuff in the medium heat range to be great for most situations. 

Jeff


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## mikeharper123

Just a tip, 

I use the MA stuff as well, I use the coffee blend. Love the way it smells.

I also use latex gloves to put it on. That way I am not washing my hands endlessly before a race......

Just my .02


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## ms6073

mikeharper123 said:


> I also use latex gloves to put it on. That way I am not washing my hands endlessly before a race......


In my case, I must of applied to much as it had been applied nearly 60-70 minutes earlier. I apparently got some on my finger while adjusting the leg grippers on skinsuit after which I non chalantly wiped sweat from right eye. Yikes, it was instantly apparent what I had done and while flushing with water only made things hotter, a quick spritz of some Pedros Citrus based degreaser helped extinguish the blaze somewhat.


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## jbott

Does anybody ever use embro under tights? 

I am trying to find the best way to ride in below freezing weather. This is my first season riding in a real winter setting, and my thickest pair of tights just isn't making the cut.

The times I have tried embrocation in the past it felt more like my skin was hurting rather than my legs were warm, but I'm willing to try it again.


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## Mike T.

Get what you really need - insulation. Use thin polypropylene long-johns under your tights and you won't have cold legs. Ebroc won't keep you warm - it just feels hot.


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## jbott

Mike T. said:


> Get what you really need - insulation. Use thin polypropylene long-johns under your tights and you won't have cold legs. Ebroc won't keep you warm - it just feels hot.



It just so happens that I have a bunch of really thin Polypro long johns. I never thought of trying them as I never wear anything between my ass and my chamois.

Ill give it a try on my next ride. I just need this snow to clear off the roads a little bit more.


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## Mike T.

jbott said:


> It just so happens that I have a bunch of really thin Polypro long johns. I never thought of trying them as I never wear anything between my ass and my chamois.
> 
> Ill give it a try on my next ride. I just need this snow to clear off the roads a little bit more.


If it's that cold I can't imagine just wearing a set of tights between the cold and my jewels. I wouldn't have tights with a pad and use shorts + tights + polypros & a codpiece from a plastic bag when cold enough.


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## jbott

When I started buying winter riding clothes, I bought tights with a chamois. It seemed like a good idea at the time. 

Now I am seeing that the padless tights are more versatile.


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## fasteddy07

When I use embrocation, with our without tights (I have done both many times) I notice you need heat to make heat - that until you get it a little moist with sweat it does not work as well. Granted, there is some effect, but - as we all know - it's the post-ride shower effect that really steals the show -
For commuting - I had embrocated a few times - then gave it up as it was not convenient given the need to remove it on arrival in the morning, then add it on the way home.
I am in the North East - on the coast of Maine - so it can be anything from 30 - 13 degrees.
I am with MIke T. now - Layers. Many Layers. And wind proofedness... 

My only real challenge still is my feet. Chemical warmers get expensive day after day - I have yet to find the magic bullet there..

Good luck -


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## Mike T.

jbott said:


> When I started buying winter riding clothes, I bought tights with a chamois. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
> Now I am seeing that the padless tights are more versatile.


If it's warm enough for just a single thickness of lycra then it's warm enough for shorts and leg warmers or knee warmers.


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## TWD

Don't remember where, but I swear I just read about somebody putting embro on their feet. I'm not sure I want to try that, but it couldn't hurt much worse in the shower than frozen toes do as they thaw out. 

If it doesn't work, would the pain of frozen toes thawing in the shower cancel out the embrocation burn in the shower, our is it additive?


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## Todd_H

Qoleum #2. Don't even think about #3. It goes on smooth and one jar lasts a long time.

Most important - pee before embro.


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## pretender

Embrocation feels good, smells good, and looks good.

It doesn't make sense to use the stuff that you need to treat like nuclear waste. Just get some medium heat, so you can leave it on your hands and feet without any major danger.


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## CabDoctor

Mike T. said:


> *
> Orlando's Extraordinary Embrocation
> 1 part generic baby oil.
> 1 part generic rubbing alcohol.
> 1 part Sloan's liniment or 'Heet!' These 2 products are becoming difficult to find. Look for substitutes that contain ''capsaicin" - it's the essential ingredient you want.
> 0.5 part generic camphorated oil
> This will give you a solution that will warm your muscles so that you can race/train in temperatures ranging from about 15 to 18 degrees Celsius in shorts. Wearing tights, even very light lycra ones will generate more heat.
> When it is colder add a bit more of the last two.
> When it is warmer add a bit more of the 2nd one.
> You can also add a few drops of eucalyptus oil to the solution, I think it improves circulation.
> A drop or two of eucalyptus oil on a swab of cotton or tissue inserted into the nostrils and inhaled will clear your air passages and lungs.
> I have also added a 'dash' of oil of wintergreen. But don't use too much of this as it can damage tendons and ligaments if overused. However, it does help the solution to penetrate the muscle tissue. *


Thank you so much for posting this up. I've been looking for a DIY recipe for a few years. Let me ask you have you found a suitable replacement for Sloan's liniment? Also, where do you usually purchase camphorated oil from? Thank you.


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## Mike T.

CabDoctor said:


> Thank you so much for posting this up. I've been looking for a DIY recipe for a few years. Let me ask you have you found a suitable replacement for Sloan's liniment? Also, where do you usually purchase camphorated oil from? Thank you.


I got the recipe from a buddy - Orlando - and I've never made it so I'll ask him your questions.


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## CabDoctor

Thanks I appreciate it. I'm ripping google a new one trying to find a replacement from walgreens or walmart.


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## Mike T.

CabDoctor said:


> Thanks I appreciate it. I'm ripping google a new one trying to find a replacement from walgreens or walmart.


I'll e-mail Orlando right now PDQ and BRB to you ASAP.


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## CabDoctor

Thank you very much, I want to try and crank out a batch before I ride tomorrow. 

I'm wondering if I could use this in place of the camphorated oil









And this for the liniment 









Both are available at walgreens.


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## Mike T.

I got an overnight answer from Orlando. he says -

"Heet is an excellent substitute for the 'Sloan's' liniment but any product with 0.25% to 0.5% capsaicin will work fine. Camphorated Oil can be found in most pharmacies in the 'generic' section with things like Peppermint Oil, Eucalyptus Oil, Oil of Wintergreen, etc. If you can't find it, ask the pharmacist."

Orlando's daughter is a Pharmacist so he should know what he's talking about. I don't know about those products you mentioned though.


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## RRRoubaix

TWD said:


> Don't remember where, but I swear I just read about somebody putting embro on their feet. I'm not sure I want to try that, but it couldn't hurt much worse in the shower than frozen toes do as they thaw out.
> 
> If it doesn't work, would the pain of frozen toes thawing in the shower cancel out the embrocation burn in the shower, our is it additive?


Mighta been me.
I have an incredibly difficult time keeping my feet warm. (Poor circulation) 
Or rather, I have a terrible time _extending the length of time before my feet go numb_.
Embrocation, waterproof socks, neoprene booties, winter boots, hand warmers, feet warmers, etc.. absolutely nothing works for me any longer than an hour- making getting my "winter base miles" in pretty much impossible.
I hate to even think it, but I believe I'm going to try some electrically heated socks. 
(But then, I live in Oregon and winter means rain, and lots of it...)

Oh- for the record; the pain of the white/purple toes heating up in the shower or bath is far worse than the burn from the embrocation- which you can't hardly feel anyway because your feet are completely numb.

The only time I really had a problem was when I embrocated AND used a foot warmer **inside** my socks (I have to do it this way- otherwise I get zero heat from them)- I had to stop about 15 minutes into the ride and take off my shoes and socks to rip off the foot warmers! :lol:


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## Mike T.

RRRoubaix said:


> I have an incredibly difficult time keeping my feet warm. (Poor circulation)
> Or rather, I have a terrible time _extending the length of time before my feet go numb_.


Years ago when I'd train through the winter, when the toes went numb I'd get off the bike and run along the road. That worked.


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## TWD

RRRoubaix said:


> Mighta been me.
> :


Like you, I have pretty poor circulation in my toes, and live in OR as well. 

While we don't get much true cold weather, the wet is a problem.

I gave the embrocation on the toes a try about a week ago. 2hr ride, ~25 degrees F. I slathered it on pretty thick, but it didn't do much to help. Actually didn't burn at all on my toes or tops of my feet, even in the shower afterward. The tiny little bit of embro that got on my ankles stung like mad in the shower though. Maybe I froze all the nerve endings in my toes after all those cold winters riding in Wisconsin and upper Michigan.

I've got a couple pairs of regular Sidis, and a pair of the Lake MXZ-300 winter boots. Honestly, the Lakes don't keep my feet any warmer. I think "Lake" is a really fitting name, because that is what the turn into at the first hint of rain. 

My biggest gripe about the Lakes (well other than their poor quality construction and lack of durability) is that for a winter boot, they are extremely narrow, with very little room in the toe box. You'd think that a winter cycling boot would be sized appropriate for wearing something other than the thinnest summer weight socks. 

However, this has led me to one conclusion. The amount of toe room, for me at least, is THE critical for keeping the circulation going and feet warm, and the thicker the sock I wear, the colder my toes get. 

To that end, I've been transitioning to thinner and thinner socks, and most recently I've been wearing my thinnest summer weight/ankle length cycling socks (like Defeet Aireators).

On Saturday's ride, I ran my Sidis with the thin socks, toe warmers and my homemade shoe covers. Toes stayed toasty warm for 2 hours, if not almost too warm. Saturday's ride wasn't all that cold (40?) but there was a bit of road spray (saturated gravel roads). The shoe covers are thin, stretchable, and wind/waterproof, and seal tightly at the ankle so they don't let any water run down into my shoes. 

The other thing about the ankle length socks, is that they don't allow any water to run/wick down into my shoes either. I've been running ankle length socks in the winter for years, but usually warmer ones Defeet Woolie Boolies.

Oh, and one last thing, you need to let the chemical toe warmers sit out in the open air until they get really hot. They don't do much for me if I just open the pack and slap them in my shoes where they don't get any air.


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## CabDoctor

Mike T. said:


> I got an overnight answer from Orlando. he says -
> 
> "Heet is an excellent substitute for the 'Sloan's' liniment but any product with 0.25% to 0.5% capsaicin will work fine. Camphorated Oil can be found in most pharmacies in the 'generic' section with things like Peppermint Oil, Eucalyptus Oil, Oil of Wintergreen, etc. If you can't find it, ask the pharmacist."
> 
> Orlando's daughter is a Pharmacist so he should know what he's talking about. I don't know about those products you mentioned though.



Man the Pharmacies must be horrible here in Sacramento. I can't find Heet anywhere. Anyone else having any luck?


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## NJBiker72

TWD said:


> Don't remember where, but I swear I just read about somebody putting embro on their feet. I'm not sure I want to try that, but it couldn't hurt much worse in the shower than frozen toes do as they thaw out.
> 
> If it doesn't work, would the pain of frozen toes thawing in the shower cancel out the embrocation burn in the shower, our is it additive?


I have used it on my feet, it helps a little. Tried it on my legs for the first time today. I am now searching here for a way to stop the burn. 

Any idea if not shaving when using it is a bad/very bad idea. I have the DZ Nuts Medium (thought about the Hot - very glad I did not do that).


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## eds211

Anyone know of any chain stores/pharmacies where embro cream is sold?


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## pretender

eds211 said:


> Anyone know of any chain stores/pharmacies where embro cream is sold?


Bike shop.


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## Kram

pretender said:


> Bike shop.


^^This^^


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## MarvinK

@eds: why not bike shop? just trying to support your local chain store?


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## nayr497

I have tried a few different embrocations - first I used some Nature's Kiss Warm and it was okay. Kind of warm, but nothing much. Then I tried some Sportsbalm in medium. Okay, but just kind of warm.

Finally I went for some DZNuts Hot. When using it during rides, it's okay. After my rides, when I sit down, then my legs start to warm up. The hottest it ever got was when I tried it Christmas night, had gotten it as a gift. Put it on, nothing. A few hours later I was asleep and woke up with burning knees and legs. It was so bad I had to go and wash my legs.

It has never gotten that hot again. All three of them tend to be the hottest after I ride when I sit down.

I'm wondering if I'm doing it wrong? Or, are my legs not hot during rides because of the wind and cold? I expected, especially with the HOT DZNuts that my legs would really tingle. The dude at the shop told me to be careful with it. I wonder if I have tough knees or something? I know I can handle jalapenos and they don't bother my hands. 

I'm confused.

But, that recipe from Orlando sounds great. Going to give it a try. My future father-in-law in a pharmacist! Cool thread...er, hot thread!


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## ms6073

nayr497 said:


> I'm confused.


It is not supposed to heat up like a cream for sore muscles, it is simply to provide a layer that attempts to protect against the cold and wet. Like you, when I put on embroaction, I rarely feel a heating sensation until well after I am off the bike, but I do note that while I am on the bike, my legs/knees where I have it applied do not feel cold.


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## BigTex_BMC

I originally went to the LBS to get leg warmers, ended up leaving with knee warmers and some Mad Alchemy embro. I've been using the mellow stuff, I don't ride if it dips below 40, so it's worked wonderfully. Applying it has become somewhat of a pre-ride ritual during the winter and early spring months.


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## teamgomez

This stuff is da BOMB! I've used multiple different products logging 10-12 hrs saddle time/week and always battled saddle sores....have not had ONE since brewing my own according to this recipe...thank you!


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## tednugent

Pro-Tip: Embrocation


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