# Pannier - how do you say it?



## Camilo

Curious about regional / national differences in how the word "pannier" is pronounced.

I've always said: PAN yer (first syllable accented, pronounced like frying pan. Second syllable pronounced as in "why, yer just a low down snake"

I've also heard it pronounced as perhaps the French would say it: pan YAY. Same people who pronounce the entrance to a building as a "foy YAY" rather than "FOY yer".

Now, recently, I've heard it pronounced puh NEER. Never heard that one before. 

Equestrians pronounce it SA dul bag


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## Lotophage

PAN yer


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## MB1

Bag.
.


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## Black Bart

MB1 said:


> Bag.
> .


Like.

This reminds me of a conversation I had a while back when I was working in a shop.

Hipster guy: "Do you have satchels?"
Me: "Umm, what kind?"
HG: "It's a bag with a strap."
Me: "Well, not always, like a purse?"
HG: "No, a satchel."
Me: "Are you looking for a messenger bag?"
HG: "They were originally called satchels."
Me: "Right, well I've got panniers with straps like that too."
HG: "What's a pannier?"
Me: "Who's next?"


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## F45

Black Bart said:


> Me: "Well, not always, like a purse?"


Dude, you didn't know what a satchel is?


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## Black Bart

F45 said:


> Dude, you didn't know what a satchel is?


That's pretty much what I wanted to offer the guy. "A satchel like this murse? Why would you go to a bike shop for a murse?"


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## Rollo Tommassi

*pan-YAY*

some of the most kickass men carry murses!


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## bignose

Its Pan-yay, because it is a french word.


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## Plum

Pan-near. I'm not french, so I amercanizer it. 

Plum


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## JCavilia

"Sand - witch"

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you said "panini"


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## theBreeze

Black Bart said:


> Like.
> 
> This reminds me of a conversation I had a while back when I was working in a shop.
> 
> Hipster guy: "Do you have satchels?"
> Me: "Umm, what kind?"
> HG: "It's a bag with a strap."
> Me: "Well, not always, like a purse?"
> HG: "No, a satchel."
> Me: "Are you looking for a messenger bag?"
> HG: "They were originally called satchels."
> Me: "Right, well I've got panniers with straps like that too."
> HG: "What's a pannier?"
> Me: "Who's next?"


No, Who's on first.


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## Slow Eddie

PAN-yer or PA-nee-yer is how I hear it most in the states

pan-YAY is how I hear it pronounced by guys who regularly throw around words like brevet, constructeur, deacaleur, and porteur, but they actually wouldn't be caught dead with a pannier on their 650b steampunk tweedgasms.

puh-NEER are those cubes of cheese in Indian (dot, not feather) cuisine.


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## T0mi

I say it the french way. But hey, I'm french. And I also write it the french way : panier.


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## JCavilia

T0mi said:


> I say it the french way. But hey, I'm french. And I also write it the french way : panier.


So wait a minute; the French word has only one "n"? So maybe "pannier" is not really a French word.

Just looked it up. The word was originally based on Old French, but has been around in English since Middle English (5 to 8 hundred years ago). Obviously referring originally to baskets carried on animals, not bicycles.

So, as far as I'm concerned, "pannier" with two n's is an English word, and the preferred pronunciations (and in fact the only ones listed in most English dictionaries) are either the two-syllable PAN-yer or the three-syllable PA-nee-er. The French pan-YAY is a mistaken affectation. Unless, of course, you're French and spell it with one "n".

No more shall I hesitate, mes amis. PAN-yer it is, for me.


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## BikeME!

I like to keep a beignet in my pannier.... for when I get Hong- gray.


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## JCavilia

BikeME! said:


> I like to keep a beignet in my pannier.... for when I get Hong- gray.


I prefer panini, but if I'm only ordering one I say "panino." Or "sandwich."


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## T0mi

JCavilia said:


> So wait a minute; the French word has only one "n"? So maybe "pannier" is not really a French word.
> 
> Just looked it up. The word was originally based on Old French, but has been around in English since Middle English (5 to 8 hundred years ago). Obviously referring originally to baskets carried on animals, not bicycles.
> 
> So, as far as I'm concerned, "pannier" with two n's is an English word, and the preferred pronunciations (and in fact the only ones listed in most English dictionaries) are either the two-syllable PAN-yer or the three-syllable PA-nee-er. The French pan-YAY is a mistaken affectation. Unless, of course, you're French and spell it with one "n".
> 
> No more shall I hesitate, mes amis. PAN-yer it is, for me.


Although the english word pannier come from an old version of the french one "panier", they do not mean exactly the same thing now. A "panier" is a basket in french, and it is almost exclusively associated to a wicker basket or to name the basketball hoop (or the goal itself).


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## MB1

BTW this thread is full of win.


:thumbsup:


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## muskat

I say panny yay


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## JCavilia

T0mi said:


> Although the english word pannier come from an old version of the french one "panier", they do not mean exactly the same thing now. A "panier" is a basket in french, and it is almost exclusively associated to a wicker basket or to name the basketball hoop (or the goal itself).


So what do they call the bike bags in France? 

It's originally a bread basket, right?


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## T0mi

JCavilia said:


> So what do they call the bike bags in France?
> 
> It's originally a bread basket, right?


Sac/Sacoche de porte-bagage. Literally rack mounted bag.

Yes Panier comes from the french word pain (bread).


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## _Ed

I would say it "pan-e-air"


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## Black Bart

computeruse200 said:


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## bignose

Huh, I like that people actually did some research to lend to this discussion, versus just flying off the guidon.


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## bradXism

I say toe-ma-toe..lets call the whole thing off.


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## JCavilia

T0mi said:


> Sac/Sacoche de porte-bagage. Literally rack mounted bag.
> 
> Yes Panier comes from the french word pain (bread).


Aha! Zee plot, she does thicken!

That's the final and conclusive bit of evidence, IMHO. Not only is "pannier" with two n's not a French word, but the French word "panier" from which it was (centuries ago) derived does not today even mean "pannier" as that word is used in English. It seems to me the only reasons for pronouncing the English word in the French manner are mistake or affectation.

NTTAWWT, if that's how you choose to say it. There is a considerable history of us here in the trans-Atlantic colonies pronouncing foreign-derived words with some approxomation of their original pronunciation, even when our elders in Great Britain have long Anglicized them. A garage is a gah-RAZH over here, but a GAIR-idge over there. 

Now for the important decisions: what to put in my panino, prosciutto or jambon.

Buon giorno, amici.


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## JohnnyTooBad

I have never uttered the word to another human.

It's pronounced SA-dul-bag


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