# Virenque should now go for the GC win.



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

After today's dramatic win by 5:19 over the field, Virenque is now 6:52 behind the yellow jersey and is now 2:43 in front of Armstrong. Very interesting!

I think he should try to rest and recover on tomorrow's difficult 'rolly' stage and plan for 2 things:

- Get the yellow jersey from Voeckler - completely doable since he's the closest climber to the yellow jersey and they are now at the Pyrenees.

- Protect the 2:43 lead on Armstrong at all costs - He's a climber and Armstrong and company have to take the lead away from him in the mountains. Virenque is in a great spot. He should hold his own in the Alp de Huez time trial. The last time trial is a problem.


Ok, this is obviously a tough scenario since Virenque is not a GC rider. Last year, I think he was in a very similar position and he completely blew up on a subsequent climbing stage. But it would be nice to see. DO NOT BLOW UP! Concede a few seconds here and there but make them work for it. What an amazing feat today. He even looked fresh at the finish. I only hope there's more left in them legs.

francois
p.s. oh yeah, the smart money's still on Ullrich.


----------



## russw19 (Nov 27, 2002)

Problem is that Virenque will lose massive amounts of time in the last Time Trial. I am thinking he would need to get at least 4 minutes on Lance or Jan to win the overall, and I doubt they will let him get that far up. I also expect to see Virenque totally collapse by saturday. Not that I am rooting against him, but I just don't see him as having the legs to ride 4 days in a row like he rode today. But hey, I could be wrong and only time will tell.


----------



## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

francois said:


> What an amazing feat today. He even looked fresh at the finish. I only hope there's more left in them legs.


He said he was cramping at the end, and hardly felt fresh. I don't think there is a lot left in those legs. Certainly not enough to beat Armstrong or Ullrich.


----------



## Heron Todd (May 20, 2002)

Virenque has the legs for long solo breakaways. He climbs well enough to drop any second-tier riders who choose to follow him. However, I don't think that he can climb with the leaders any more. I think that he would not last long going head-to-head with the likes of Armstrong, Ullrich, Hamilton, Mayo, Heras, etc.


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

*Oh yeah- Axel Merckx*

You're a whiner. Keep quiet.

I just read the tour news and all I hear is Axel complaining that Virenque broke their alliance in the stage. Whatever you think your agreement was with Virenque. He can't wait for your slow ass with 100k to go. If both of you were at the finish line, maybe he'll let you win.

Virenque is clearly light years faster than you. Why should he wait for you? Is he your domestique? You couldn't even stay away from the field. Then I hear you got dropped by the field. You got a nice last name and now you make a name for yourself by whining.

vent over :{
francois


----------



## bimini (Jul 2, 2003)

*Yes, I remember Virenque from last year*

He became a serious threat last year in the mountains. He was constantly on the attack in the mountains. And I do remember that he blew up in one of mountain stages (one of the later ones if I remember right). He was being taken seriously as a GC threat last year up to that point.

It's clear he went for the GC time today. He could of sat up and took it easy until he crossed the line for the stage win. Instead he drove it home across the line. He is gunning for the yellow.

If Virenque attacks tommorrow, the GC contenders will take him very serious and will respond. If he pulls it off tommorrow, he is a force to be concerned about.

Resting a day, may be a smart move for him. If he just marks time with LA he may keep his legs fresh and may stay under the GC contender's radar as a serious threat. 

How old is Virenque? Is he a younger up and comer or is he an old dog like most of the other GC contenders? I've noticed most of the GC contenders are closing in on the end of their competative lifespan.

PS: The smart money is on LA, he is still focused, still good in the TT and I think stage 12 will tell us he is still good in the hills. 



francois said:


> After today's dramatic win by 5:19 over the field, Virenque is now 6:52 behind the yellow jersey and is now 2:43 in front of Armstrong. Very interesting!
> 
> I think he should try to rest and recover on tomorrow's difficult 'rolly' stage and plan for 2 things:
> 
> ...


----------



## Heron Todd (May 20, 2002)

bimini said:


> How old is Virenque?


34. His days as a GC contender are behind him now.


----------



## russw19 (Nov 27, 2002)

francois said:


> You're a whiner. Keep quiet.
> 
> I just read the tour news and all I hear is Axel complaining that Virenque broke their alliance in the stage. Whatever you think your agreement was with Virenque. He can't wait for your slow ass with 100k to go. If both of you were at the finish line, maybe he'll let you win.
> 
> ...



That's funny! But you type it like you are thinking Axel is actually going to read this....


----------



## mmoose (Apr 2, 2004)

*LONG behind him*

and in a bottle and syringe.

Seven KOM titles would be a great feat for him though...look for him to be opportunistic the next two days. He will rest when he can, but if the peloton is finishing a climb and there are points available, then you will see him nip out of the pack at the top only.

Thursday does not have many significant points, so he will not waste energy. Friday, he might still be around for the first climb, but he will take it easy on the second. Saturday, he will go early try to get the 6 top prizes before the final climb. Yes, the final climbs are worth double the points, but if you wipe the first six climbs, the last don't matter.

Axel has a beef...he may be whining about it, but there was obviously an 'agreement' made that stopped Axel from challenging the KOM points. But, what do you expect from a doper cheater and liar like Virenque on Bastille Day? Axel has a beef, but is also a fool for trusting. Maybe this motivates Axel to go for KOM points...not that he has a chance, but it would make things more interesting.


----------



## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*How does axel have a beef?*

He was the one that got dropped like a stone on the climb and couldn't catch back up. I don't get it?

Was Virique supposed to wait for him (and poissibly the Peleton) to catch up?

What a whiner.

As to Vinrique...........He's consistant, and won't be around come saturday evening. My guess is that by close of stage Sat. he's 5+ minutes behind the leaders. He lost time in all three of the final climbs today....Yea I know One against the peleton, but from what i saw, it wasn't much of a peleton on the last two climbs.

len


----------



## giovanni sartori (Feb 5, 2004)

*Virenque is not a GC threat*

Virenque blew up last year on Huez, the day after his solo breakaway. Here's a pic I took last year on Huez - it was bloody hot!


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

mmoose said:


> and in a bottle and syringe.
> 
> Seven KOM titles would be a great feat for him though...look for him to be opportunistic the next two days. He will rest when he can, but if the peloton is finishing a climb and there are points available, then you will see him nip out of the pack at the top only.
> 
> ...


Good analysis on the next few days. Even for a Virenque hater 

Axel is in a dream world. He 'gave' all the KOM points to Virenque. Ha, ha, ha. He didn't challenge cause he never had a chance on any KOM points from Virenque. He is a weak man with a big name and he thinks making side deals is the only way he can get a stage.

francois


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

giovanni sartori said:


> Virenque blew up last year on Huez, the day after his solo breakaway. Here's a pic I took last year on Huez - it was bloody hot!



You took that photo??? Lucky ******* to be in such an event!

Virenque is a GC contender until he cracks. He should act like it and his team should protect him at all costs. Other GC teams will be watching him very closely I'm sure.

If he cracks, he cracks. But if he doesn't.... he can win and top 5 GC should be within reach. I would feel better about his chances after tomorrow. He needs rest big time and I hear tomorrow's stage is very, very hard for tired legs looking for a rhythm.

francois


----------



## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*What are you smoking?*



francois said:


> Virenque is a GC contender until he cracks. He should act like it and his team should protect him at all costs. Other GC teams will be watching him very closely I'm sure.
> 
> If he cracks, he cracks. But if he doesn't.... he can win and top 5 GC should be within reach. I would feel better about his chances after tomorrow. He needs rest big time and I hear tomorrow's stage is very, very hard for tired legs looking for a rhythm.
> 
> francois


What a joke! I doubt very seriously that anyone is considering him a GC threat.
The only thing they will do is make sure he doesn't put too much time in them between now and Friday..........If he hangs on on Friday, then they will pay more attention to him. He is, and has been recently a one trick pony.....and he had his trick today. If he goes out on a brake Tomorrow, they will let him go but watch him so he doesn't get out to far.......let him tire his legs for Friday & Saturday. 

As I said previusly, he'll be 5+ minutes down on the leaders by Sat night.

Len


----------



## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

francois said:


> You took that photo??? Lucky ******* to be in such an event!
> 
> Virenque is a GC contender until he cracks. He should act like it and his team should protect him at all costs. Other GC teams will be watching him very closely I'm sure.
> 
> ...


He is going to have his hands full just trying to keep the KOM jersey. I don't think he has enough to go for GC on top of that. With the new rule change, the KOM points are doubled on the last climb. That means he has to make it to the last climb, or risk giving up huge points to someone else, such as Lance or Mayo. A great climber like Mayo should pick up plenty of big points on the Cat 1 and HC climbs and take even bigger points on the final climbs. By accident, he could find himself in a position to take the jersey, even though it wasn't a goal at the beginning. Mayo could destroy Virenque if he chose to, and since Mayo no longer has big GC hopes, he might change his focus to getting the polka dots. I think he should.


----------



## cyclejim (Mar 31, 2004)

giovanni sartori said:


> Virenque blew up last year on Huez, the day after his solo breakaway. Here's a pic I took last year on Huez - it was bloody hot!


Nice shot, great quality. What kind of camera gear were you using that day?


----------



## Dwaynebarry (Mar 16, 2004)

Virenque also needs to save himself for the possibility of another one of these breaks in the Alps or even on Saturday to really cinch up the KOM. Merckx claiming Virenque attacked him is a bit of wishful thinking. Virenque simply kept his pace and rode away from him on the cat. 1 climb that's a big difference then attacking someone.


----------



## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*Agreed, and....*



Dwaynebarry said:


> Virenque also needs to save himself for the possibility of another one of these breaks in the Alps or even on Saturday to really cinch up the KOM. Merckx claiming Virenque attacked him is a bit of wishful thinking. Virenque simply kept his pace and rode away from him on the cat. 1 climb that's a big difference then attacking someone.


watching OLN, Vinrique only had 29 seconds on him at the top of that climb.............by the time they got thru the descent he was down 50 seconds and then the loses accelerated.......No way Axel had the legs to stay with him. What a whiner.

Len


----------



## tarwheel (May 22, 2004)

*virenque's riding style*

Virenque has the strangest climbing style I have ever seen. He looks like a monkey on a toy bike at a circus, but he can sure climb. His legs and arms are going in so many directions, it's amazing he can climb so fast.

I would live to see RV make a run for the GC, but don't think it's gonna happen. He totally blew up on the stage after his long solo victory last year, and will probably do the same thing today.


----------



## Trek_envy (Jun 15, 2004)

*Duuuuddde!*



giovanni sartori said:


> Virenque blew up last year on Huez, the day after his solo breakaway. Here's a pic I took last year on Huez - it was bloody hot!



I think I was right acros the road from you.

I have almost the same photo from the other side.... (only not digital)

Yeah, it was scorching hot. Talk about a sunburn. Did yout guys stay in bourg d'Oisans? We were camping in a ditch across from the public pool.

Man was that an awesome time.


----------



## Trek_envy (Jun 15, 2004)

*We''ll see today....*



mohair_chair said:


> He is going to have his hands full just trying to keep the KOM jersey. I don't think he has enough to go for GC on top of that. With the new rule change, the KOM points are doubled on the last climb. That means he has to make it to the last climb, or risk giving up huge points to someone else, such as Lance or Mayo. A great climber like Mayo should pick up plenty of big points on the Cat 1 and HC climbs and take even bigger points on the final climbs. By accident, he could find himself in a position to take the jersey, even though it wasn't a goal at the beginning. Mayo could destroy Virenque if he chose to, and since Mayo no longer has big GC hopes, he might change his focus to getting the polka dots. I think he should.


I have a feeling he's going to find today a little difficult. Thats a lot of solo miles in the legs.

I think the main field is going to split up near the end today, and he's gonna end up in the 2nd group, if not with the sprinters.


----------



## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

1. I still am in the lead on the water bottle bet. Go Tyler.

2. Richard will not finish in the top-25 of GC, never mind challenge for it. On the hills where the real contenders come out, Richard gets rocketed out of the lead group like he dropped an anchor. Voeckler will finish higher in the GC then Richard will.

3. Don't confuse the Polka Dot jersey will being the "best" climber, as that title does not remotely belong to Richard. He has gamed the system by going out of raids on days with plenty of points but little interest from the elite riders, knowing that the big guns would ignore him. You are confusing being "allowed" to go, from "escaping". The bosses of the peleton allowed Richard to go as he is a no-hoper. 

4. The double last mountain top points could put a better climber in the dots. But fortunately for Virenque none of the good riders have it as a goal. Mayo could take it from him like candy from a baby if he wanted to seeing he is 5 minutes back on GC and an infinitely better climber. 

5. After Festina et al, Axel was foolish to trust Virenque on Bastile Day. He got used. No one else will make that mistake again. Still, did you honestly think he would wait for you?


----------



## mmoose (Apr 2, 2004)

*Rv*

Sorry, I am not really a huge Virenque hater....he did make the race on Wednesday and that is a GOOD thing. Apart from that, we do have some Axel whining and a crash to talk about. So, Thanks to to RV for having some guts....

If the peleton thought that RV was a GC threat, they would never have let him escape. Breaks don't break in the Tour. They are allowed to leave by the heads of state. USPS, BlaB, Tmob and Phonak all considered RV a 'non-threat' to the GC if they allowed him to get ahead of the peloton. RV may end up in top 20 GC at the end. Last year, he did about the same tactics and ended up in 16th place, 25 minutes down.

Mayo may still have some GC hopes, but for top 5 again...I hope he makes the KOM race interesting along the way.

RV did jump out of the group today to pick up some points...let's wait to Saturday to see if the predictable happens...


----------



## giovanni sartori (Feb 5, 2004)

*It was a great day*

That is coincidental, there weren't too many people on that stretch of Huez, I stopped there because of that waterfall that was near by. Not that you'd remember but I was on a yellow Colnago that day.

The camera is a Pentax Optio S, one of the smallest around.

I stayed in Grenoble and rode to Huez. I climbed the Alpe that day and it was by far the best day on my bike period. The crowd gives you so much adrenaline.


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

Len J said:


> As I said previusly, he'll be 5+ minutes down on the leaders by Sat night.
> 
> Len


Your prediction... here's mine:
By Saturday night, Virenque will have the yellow jersey.

Let's see who's right or see who's closer.

francois


----------



## giovanni sartori (Feb 5, 2004)

*Are you in this picture*

Taken from almost the same spot. What were you wearing? I have others.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Rv*

always expends himself on a couple Mtn stages to get a comfortable margin and then suffers a 20 minute or so loss of time on GC. To ensure that polka dot he takes himself out of any GC hunt (which is as stated past his prime)


----------



## Niwot (Jul 16, 2004)

*Virenque can get the maillot jaune for a day or two*

... and maybe that was his motivation for putting so much time between himself and the peloton on Wed. If he can hang with the GC contenders' group on Fri. and Sat., Virenque will get the maillot jaune after one of those stages. He'll lose it soon thereafter, but he will have a day or two in yellow to go with finishing the tour in polka dots.


----------



## 97 Teran (Feb 17, 2004)

*Playing possum? (Sarcasm drips er... follows...)*

Now that, after stage 12, he's lulled the rest of the pack into thinking that he isn't a threat to the GC (by craftily losing 3:27 on a single Cat-1 climb to several men who aren't even in the "King of the Mountains" standings, and are therefore not 'good' climbers at all) he should be able to make up that lost time in the long ITT on Stage 19. Excellent plan, Mr. "King."

Go make your bets now before his odds become shorter...


----------



## Trek_envy (Jun 15, 2004)

*We were....*



giovanni sartori said:


> Taken from almost the same spot. What were you wearing? I have others.



Just up the road a bit before the corner. On the DVD of the stage I can see myself waving my US flage in my postal jersey....

I want to go back.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*not directed at anyone*

but what are ya, New to Grand Tour cycling? Virenque has as much a chance at GC as Magnus did of finishing.


----------

