# Any '14 Felt AR owners?



## Ahillock (Apr 16, 2011)

Any owners of the new AR? Just wondering what you think of it and if you would recommend it to others? Stiffness and comfort good?


----------



## dbf73 (Aug 15, 2011)

would definitely recommend. stiffer than my Z2 but not at all objectionable. Have not done any real long rides yet but the comfort is just fine. Think (in automotive terms) BMW (AR) compared to Lexus (Z)


----------



## jedwards11 (Aug 13, 2012)

I've had my AR5 for about a month now. It's a great bike! Plenty stiff and still pretty comfortable. It just feels fast. I initially had a problem with the seat angle slipping on rides. My LBS re-greased the threads and and joints and added some more carbon paste to the inner ring it's been fine since. I'm very happy with it.


----------



## RobbV (Nov 14, 2013)

I got my AR4 back in November 6-1/2 months ago. No problems at all, I'm very happy with it. My average rides are 30 to 50 miles due to time but I do have a few long rides on it. I did a ride called the 207 in Feb.. A 2 day event from Phoenix Az. to Puerto Penasco (Rocky Point) Mexico. I had only been road riding about 4 months before I purchased it so I don't have much experience to bring to the table. I probably only average 80 to just over 100 mi. a week but it hasn't had to go back to the shop for anything.


----------



## Superdave3T (May 11, 2009)

Ahillock said:


> Any owners of the new AR? Just wondering what you think of it and if you would recommend it to others? Stiffness and comfort good?


If you're looking at using Ultegra Di2, why not choose the AR2 complete i/o the AR1? Already have parts?

I haven't had the chance to ride or test and S3 but the Garmin pros seemed to embrace it more than the S5. In Felt's testing the S5 offered better low-yaw drag numbers but much worse at higher yaw. I haven't studied the drag curve on the S3 vs. S5. In a -5 to 0 to 5 sweep the S5 was ahead of the AR, in part by design as the AR's tubes and optimal performance envelope was pushed out beyond 15 degrees. in a -10 to 0 to 10 or -15 to 0 to 15 sweep, the AR was well ahead. Stiffness and weight, while less important, were two areas that the AR was well ahead also. I have no idea about the S3 stiffness vs. the S5/S5Team lay up.

Comfort on the AR is incredible. Much smoother than my F-series bike. A different world vs. the S5 in terms of vertical compliance. The AR1 with the VR post is in the Felt Z & Spec Roubaix realm. The graph doesn't scale to include other aero road bikes we've tested. Unfortunately the latest S3 is excluded from our stable of test bikes.

Consider where you'll be buying the bikes from and your intended use. It may be possible than an S3 with a -17 configuration is indeed faster than an AR1 with a 20mm headset spacer stack and a -6 stem. Sure having 3 seatpost options on the AR is nice for a Felt Dealer but once you've determined which one you need, it is unlikely that anyone would own all the different versions.

Fit, finish, and relationship with your retailer will probably have as much to do with your enjoyment and the bike's overall performance for you as any drag data or frame comfort metrics I could provide.

Cervelo makes great bikes, the S3 seems to come with changes in the design where much of the criticism the S5 received. These are the two bikes ahead of the rest of the class by a generation or two. You've narrowed your choices wisely.

If I can offer any additional information to help you make your decision, let me know.

-SD
Dave Koesel | Senior Product Manager
Felt Bicycles | 12 Chrysler | Irvine, CA 92618 USA
p: 949.268.4464 | e: davekoesel at feltbicycles dot com
feltbicycles.com | Skype: d_koesel


----------



## lowayne (Jun 3, 2014)

Is it possible to put larger tires on the AR bikes than the stock 23c? More specifically, the AR4? The tolerances look pretty tight from what I can see in pictures but I really would prefer larger tires to handle the crud on our roads. I know some other aero road bikes allow for this but I don't want to assume.


----------



## dbf73 (Aug 15, 2011)

25's work for sure - at least Michelin Pro4 Service Course work with no rubbing. might be able to go up another size but I haven't looked closely


----------



## JimmyORCA (Mar 18, 2008)

Still waiting for my AR FRD to be delivered!!!


----------



## Superdave3T (May 11, 2009)

JimmyORCA said:


> Still waiting for my AR FRD to be delivered!!!


Me, too.


----------



## Superdave3T (May 11, 2009)

lowayne said:


> Is it possible to put larger tires on the AR bikes than the stock 23c? More specifically, the AR4? The tolerances look pretty tight from what I can see in pictures but I really would prefer larger tires to handle the crud on our roads. I know some other aero road bikes allow for this but I don't want to assume.


Yes, Challenge 27mm Paris-Roubaix tires fit with my Shimano C35 wheels.
It may be possible that using very wide rims and some 25 or 27mm tires could cause clearance issues but the frame is designed with at least a 5mm clearance bubble around a 25mm tire mounted on an ETRTO certified rim.

-SD


----------



## JimmyORCA (Mar 18, 2008)

SuperdaveFelt said:


> Me, too.


All my parts and accessories are just sitting there collecting dust waiting for the frame.

Dave, how are you going to build yours?


----------



## Superdave3T (May 11, 2009)

JimmyORCA said:


> All my parts and accessories are just sitting there collecting dust waiting for the frame.
> 
> Dave, how are you going to build yours?


For the most part I'll use the stock AR FRD complete bike. I do need to make the following changes to suit my position preference and fit.
Swap the headset carbon cone washer for a 4mm cover and cut the steerer tube down.
Change the stem to a 130mm length
Change bars to 42cm 3T Aeronova LTD
Change saddle to Felt's DEVOX Carbon road saddle
Change the wheelset to Shimano Dura-Ace C35 clinchers with Challenge 27mm tires for most of my riding and C75 tubulars with Vittoria 24mm tubs for important races
Change the Junction A to the old EW-6770-A hard-wired harness and mount it inside the frame.
I'm debating on changing the crankset to a 50t/34t.

-SD


----------



## JimmyORCA (Mar 18, 2008)

SuperdaveFelt said:


> For the most part I'll use the stock AR FRD complete bike. I do need to make the following changes to suit my position preference and fit.
> Swap the headset carbon cone washer for a 4mm cover and cut the steerer tube down.
> Change the stem to a 130mm length
> Change bars to 42cm 3T Aeronova LTD
> ...


Wow, sounds like its going to be a nice build. Did you get your Aeronova yet, I can not seem to find one anywhere.


----------



## Superdave3T (May 11, 2009)

JimmyORCA said:


> Wow, sounds like its going to be a nice build. Did you get your Aeronova yet, I can not seem to find one anywhere.


Yes, actually.
View attachment 296507

-SD


----------



## JimmyORCA (Mar 18, 2008)

SuperdaveFelt said:


> Yes, actually.
> View attachment 296507
> 
> -SD


Cant see the attached


----------



## Superdave3T (May 11, 2009)

JimmyORCA said:


> Cant see the attached


https://scontent-b-tpe.xx.fbcdn.net...2_10203955036662263_6578965022214395135_n.jpg








-SD


----------



## JimmyORCA (Mar 18, 2008)

SuperdaveFelt said:


> https://scontent-b-tpe.xx.fbcdn.net...2_10203955036662263_6578965022214395135_n.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I need one in 42 also, want to sell me one? Also is there a difference in Mechanical vs non Mechanical on 3T website?


----------



## Superdave3T (May 11, 2009)

JimmyORCA said:


> I need one in 42 also, want to sell me one? Also is there a difference in Mechanical vs non Mechanical on 3T website?


I would ask 3T.

-SD


----------



## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

SuperdaveFelt said:


> Change the Junction A to the old EW-6770-A hard-wired harness and mount it inside the frame.


Any reason to go with the EW-6770-A over the SM-EW90 A/B? The SM-EW90 allows for easy charging of the internal Di2 battery, which I assume you will be going with. I'm sure you have some reason why the EW-6770-A is better, I'm just curious why. 

Secondly, how do you get the EW-6770-A inside the frame and get the wires out to the shifters? I assume you throw that into the top tube and have the two wires from that to the shifters come out of the opening and then on to the shifters. Is that really any easier or more aero than just using the SM-EW90 A/B under the stem?


----------



## Superdave3T (May 11, 2009)

tranzformer said:


> Any reason to go with the EW-6770-A over the SM-EW90 A/B? The SM-EW90 allows for easy charging of the internal Di2 battery, which I assume you will be going with. I'm sure you have some reason why the EW-6770-A is better, I'm just curious why.
> 
> Secondly, how do you get the EW-6770-A inside the frame and get the wires out to the shifters? I assume you throw that into the top tube and have the two wires from that to the shifters come out of the opening and then on to the shifters. Is that really any easier or more aero than just using the SM-EW90 A/B under the stem?


The EW90 doesn't fit inside the frame and once inside it cannot be reached to charge the battery anyhow.
I use EW6770-A because it is smaller and more easily hides.

-SD


----------



## JimmyORCA (Mar 18, 2008)

Dave

Just a reminder that with the new Di2 once in a while you will need to update the software on your bike. Try not too hide too well, becuase when I was installing the new wireless adpter on my 9070 last night I had to unplug almost everything on the bike but the battery to update the firmware. Took forever to get that done.


----------



## Superdave3T (May 11, 2009)

JimmyORCA said:


> Dave
> 
> Just a reminder that with the new Di2 once in a while you will need to update the software on your bike. Try not too hide too well, becuase when I was installing the new wireless adpter on my 9070 last night I had to unplug almost everything on the bike but the battery to update the firmware. Took forever to get that done.


It is ok, my bikes don't stay assembled very long.
I got stuff.
Instagram
Instagram
-sd


----------



## JimmyORCA (Mar 18, 2008)

Nice, love to get alot of stuff. 
Just wondering are you also located in Taiwan?



SuperdaveFelt said:


> It is ok, my bikes don't stay assembled very long.
> I got stuff.
> Instagram
> Instagram
> -sd


----------



## Superdave3T (May 11, 2009)

JimmyORCA said:


> Nice, love to get alot of stuff.
> Just wondering are you also located in Taiwan?


I'm in Taiwan at the moment, yes. I live in SoCal.
-SD


----------



## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

SuperdaveFelt said:


> The EW90 doesn't fit inside the frame and once inside it cannot be reached to charge the battery anyhow.
> I use EW6770-A because it is smaller and more easily hides.
> 
> -SD


You might not have understood my question as you really didn't answer it. The question wasn't about placing the EW90 inside the frame as that wasn't something I mentioned. It was placing the EW-6770-A inside the frame vs using the EW90 under the stem like it comes stock. 

Also will you answer the question of how you get the EW-6770-A inside the frame and if the cable opening on the frame is wide enough to allow enough room for the two wires from the EW-6770A to get out from the frame?

Last question, how does one charge to internal battery and do firmware updates with the EW-6770-A if it is hidden. I know you say your bike doesn't stay assembled long, but for the typical consumer that doesn't sound like a practical alternative.


----------



## Superdave3T (May 11, 2009)

tranzformer said:


> You might not have understood my question as you really didn't answer it. The question wasn't about placing the EW90 inside the frame as that wasn't something I mentioned. It was placing the EW-6770-A inside the frame vs using the EW90 under the stem like it comes stock.
> 
> Also will you answer the question of how you get the EW-6770-A inside the frame and if the cable opening on the frame is wide enough to allow enough room for the two wires from the EW-6770A to get out from the frame?
> 
> Last question, how does one charge to internal battery and do firmware updates with the EW-6770-A if it is hidden. I know you say your bike doesn't stay assembled long, but for the typical consumer that doesn't sound like a practical alternative.


I think the junction A inside the frame looks better be it 6770 or EW90. A strap around the stem is not acceptable for me to look at. "Strap on" spelled backwards is "no parts".

I'll run the 6770 wires into the stem and through the steerer. The cable opening on the frame is large enough to get the two wires out. You could use the mechanical plug off the DA top tube to run the two e-shift wires and 1 brake housing into the frame.

I just add in the EW90 at the rear derailleur to charge and update the e-tube system. The cam bus system doesn't care where the information is getting in or where inline the charge is coming from. I unplug the R/D wire. Plug in the JunctionA EW90, then run a wire from the add-on junction A to the rear derailleur to re-connect the system for updates. It needn't be reconnected at the R/D to charge the system.

-SD


----------



## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

SuperdaveFelt said:


> I think the junction A inside the frame looks better be it 6770 or EW90. A strap around the stem is not acceptable for me to look at. "Strap on" spelled backwards is "no parts".
> 
> I'll run the 6770 wires into the stem and through the steerer. The cable opening on the frame is large enough to get the two wires out. You could use the mechanical plug off the DA top tube to run the two e-shift wires and 1 brake housing into the frame.
> 
> ...


Cool. Thanks for explaining that. Sounds like a very nice and clean setup. You are still going to have the rear brake housing exposed from when it exits the handlebar and before it goes into the frame. Couldn't you just zip tie/heat shrink wrap that brake housing and Di2 wire together for a clean look. Through the steer tube sounds interesting, but doesn't that affect the integrity of the steerer?


----------



## Superdave3T (May 11, 2009)

tranzformer said:


> Cool. Thanks for explaining that. Sounds like a very nice and clean setup. You are still going to have the rear brake housing exposed from when it exits the handlebar and before it goes into the frame. Couldn't you just zip tie/heat shrink wrap that brake housing and Di2 wire together for a clean look. Through the steer tube sounds interesting, but doesn't that affect the integrity of the steerer?


The brake cannot make the same radius and it is not "static", same with mechanical shifters.

The brake is neatly tucked under the bar, along the stem and into the frame behind the stem. estimating at 1w per 20cm I'm losing about 0.25w.

This mod is not for consumers who don't have access to custom fork lay ups.

-sD


----------



## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

SuperdaveFelt said:


> This mod is not for consumers who don't have access to custom fork lay ups.
> 
> -sD


Even though you work for Felt, sounds expensive to have the Asian plantlayup a custom AR fork with the holes for your Di2 wires molded into the steer tube rather than have them drilled out. One offs are quite pricey.


----------



## Superdave3T (May 11, 2009)

tranzformer said:


> Even though you work for Felt, sounds expensive to have the Asian plantlayup a custom AR fork with the holes for your Di2 wires molded into the steer tube rather than have them drilled out. One offs are quite pricey.


Dental surgery is expensive, too.
We are always prototyping new ideas and often have a few versions of bikes being developed/sampled.
Besides, we're in the factory often enough that our engineers can do the heavy lifting and make 'em.
View attachment 296779



-SD


----------



## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

Cool. Sounds like fun. 

Btw your attachment isn't working. Curious to see what you were showing off.


----------



## UpStroke (Oct 12, 2008)

Hi Dave,
My name is Joel and I used to work at Bikemasters in Omaha ( we're still close). I have an original (2009?) AR2. With the release of 
Dura Ae 9000 I am going through the whole bike. Before I order all of the new parts I thought I would check out the headset since it has never been taken apart. I noticed that the collar that spaces the fork and top bearing seems to be too tall and leaves a 1/8 gap between the frame and the Cane Creek Cone (?). I am going to redo the headset as well at this time. My question is , is there another "collar" I should get or something besides the Cane Creek "cone"? I work at a shop here in Phoenix, but the mechanics are not Felt Guys. 
Can you give me some guidance? I probably would order the parts from BTI or you??
Thanks,
Joel


----------



## Superdave3T (May 11, 2009)

UpStroke said:


> Hi Dave,
> My name is Joel and I used to work at Bikemasters in Omaha ( we're still close). I have an original (2009?) AR2. With the release of
> Dura Ae 9000 I am going through the whole bike. Before I order all of the new parts I thought I would check out the headset since it has never been taken apart. I noticed that the collar that spaces the fork and top bearing seems to be too tall and leaves a 1/8 gap between the frame and the Cane Creek Cone (?). I am going to redo the headset as well at this time. My question is , is there another "collar" I should get or something besides the Cane Creek "cone"? I work at a shop here in Phoenix, but the mechanics are not Felt Guys.
> Can you give me some guidance? I probably would order the parts from BTI or you??
> ...


Joel, please give Dave my best the next time you speak with BikeMasters. They are a good crew.

You'll need a headset that uses the IS2 standard (41.4mm, not Campy 42mm) bearings. The insertion depth is 3.0mm. There are dozens of companies that make headsets that will fit. From Acros to FSA to Cane Creek.

Regards,
Dave


----------



## UpStroke (Oct 12, 2008)

SuperdaveFelt said:


> Joel, please give Dave my best the next time you speak with BikeMasters. They are a good crew.
> 
> You'll need a headset that uses the IS2 standard (41.4mm, not Campy 42mm) bearings. The insertion depth is 3.0mm. There are dozens of companies that make headsets that will fit. From Acros to FSA to Cane Creek.
> 
> ...


Thanks Dave !


----------



## JimmyORCA (Mar 18, 2008)

So dave, just saw a sneak peak from facebook of the 2015 AR FRD. So when we finally get ours will it also be a 2015 model?
Thanks


----------



## Superdave3T (May 11, 2009)

JimmyORCA said:


> So dave, just saw a sneak peak from facebook of the 2015 AR FRD. So when we finally get ours will it also be a 2015 model?
> Thanks


Jimmy,

Apologies for not knowing who "we" are, where "we" is, and when "we" bought the bike. I have no idea if 2014 AR FRD orders will be filled with 2015 product. I doubt Felt's distributors will automatically be ship new product to old backorders but it may be possible if that is what was arranged by the dealer/consumer. It is a case-by-case situation if I had to guess.

-Dave

-Dave


----------

