# Helmets with MIPS technology - Why so few?



## mgringle (May 20, 2011)

With aero being the new helmet craze, I wonder why people are not demanding that helmet manufacturers make SAFER helmets, instead of simply marginally better looking and/or marginally more aero helmets. If those that use helmets start demanding helmets that are safer than ones my grandpa used back in the day, they will listen. I'm told by a Scott helmet dealer that Scott cannot keep MIPS models in stock. Might be true, might not. But I want a safer helmet, not just a clone of what I've had for years with more vents and a few less grams... If you don't use a helmet, your choice and I really don't want to go down that rat hole.


----------



## Dave Cutter (Sep 26, 2012)

mgringle said:


> .... I wonder why people are not demanding that helmet manufacturers make SAFER helmets,...... I want a safer helmet, not just a clone of what I've had for years with more vents and a few less grams...


Aren't motorcycle helmets made to higher, "safer" standards? 

If not the standards used for motorcycle helmet safety.... what bicycle helmet safety standards would you like to see increased... and to what level?


----------



## lazybean (Feb 28, 2011)

I read the bicycling article article about "safer helmet standards", and i have read a few others pointing out what was misleading that article. 

The basic of what i have found is, the mips system is great for tight fighting secured helmets. but most bicycle helmets are not tight fitting, except for some MTB helmets. The purpose of the mips is to allow the helmet to rotate around the head a little, reducing the rotational force, thus reducing the chance/severity of a concussion.
That's great on full face and tightly secured helmets like snowboard helmets, but not necessarily on a reg bicycle helmet. Most people never wear the chin strap so tightly pulled so the helmet can not rotate. We wear them lose, they are there to keep the helmet from falling off in a crash. As a result the helmet will rotate without the mips system being necessary.

I do agree that as our information on head injuries increases, the standards should be reexamined too. So far for our specific needs i am comfortable with the available options and standards. Especially having had my first Bike vs Car incident. Helmet got smashed up, but i was fine(except for my collar bone).


----------



## mgringle (May 20, 2011)

Dave Cutter said:


> .... what bicycle helmet safety standards would you like to see increased... and to what level?


I would like to see helmets that reduce the rotational impact as the MIPS technology supposedly does, reducing the severity of concussions. With all the recent new information regarding head trauma, I would think helmet manufactures and riders would take notice.


----------



## Terex (Jan 3, 2005)

I bought a POC Trabec Race with MIPS. It's a mtb helmet, but it has what appears to be the best protection.


----------



## Dave Cutter (Sep 26, 2012)

mgringle said:


> I would like to see helmets that reduce the rotational impact as the MIPS technology supposedly does, reducing the severity of concussions...... I would think helmet manufactures and riders would take notice.


Well... you got my attention! 

I almost always wear a helmet, cycling gloves, cycling glasses, and even a little mirror attached to the cycling glasses. I have to... my wife would kill me if I got injured bicycling without the proper equipment. 

Thanks for sharing the MIPS technology information!


----------



## MrMook (Nov 18, 2007)

Terex said:


> I bought a POC Trabec Race with MIPS. It's a mtb helmet, but it has what appears to be the best protection.


I bought one, too, but the fit was so poor. Two shell sizes (neither of which were a match for my head), and a cheap plastic "zip" style adjustment system that kept popping loose. 

I love the design, and the implementation of new, safer tech, but I had to send it back. 

I do, however, ride with a Fox Flux "all-mountain" helmet for better coverage. Sort of makes "standard" helmets look like kippahs. So to the OP's point, there are "safer" helmets, and I chose what I feel is one of the better options on the market.


----------



## mgringle (May 20, 2011)

Yea, I wanted a Scott Taal, but it came in only ONE size (but three color options!)


----------



## Terex (Jan 3, 2005)

Dave Cutter said:


> Well... you got my attention!
> 
> I almost always wear a helmet, cycling gloves, cycling glasses, and even a little mirror attached to the cycling glasses. I have to... my wife would kill me if I got injured bicycling without the proper equipment.
> 
> Thanks for sharing the MIPS technology information!


After two concussions, and two cracked LAS Squalos, my riding has decreased greatly. My wife and kids wanted me to give it up entirely, which I did for a while, but I've made modifications to my riding that decrease risk of similar misadventure. I'm fortunate to have been able to substitute other activities that keep me fit.


----------



## lazybean (Feb 28, 2011)

I found a couple of the articles about MIPS and the bicycle article.
Bicycling magazine article is misleading
Sliding Resistance of Bicycle Helmets


----------



## flatsix911 (Jun 28, 2009)

If you are still concerned after reading the research literature, just purchase a motorcycle helmet with a current DOT certification :thumbsup:


----------



## MrMook (Nov 18, 2007)

flatsix911 said:


> If you are still concerned after reading the research literature, just purchase a motorcycle helmet with a current DOT certification :thumbsup:


DOT certification is self-policed...MFRs vouch for themselves meeting the criteria. Snell certification is much more rigorous and requires that each product be tested by the Snell Foundation. They have a bicycle helmet cert. as well.


----------



## mgringle (May 20, 2011)

flatsix911 said:


> If you are still concerned after reading the research literature, just purchase a motorcycle helmet with a current DOT certification :thumbsup:


Not very practical advice...

Here is another relevant article:
Cycling’s Concussion Dilemma | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos


----------



## mgringle (May 20, 2011)

mgringle said:


> Here is another relevant article:
> Cyclingâ€™s Concussion Dilemma | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos


This is and interesting observation from the above article: "Concussions are becoming a hot-button topic in cycling, as scores of amateur and professional racers have seen their careers derailed by head injuries. Chris Horner dropped out of the 2011 Tour de France after crashing onto his head during the seventh stage stage. Tom Boonen also abandoned that year’s Tour after crashing on his head. American Evelyn Stevens cracked her teeth and suffered a minor concussion after crashing at the Classica Citta di Padova race this past March. And American cyclists Scott Nydam and Sinead Miller both saw their promising careers end after suffering numerous concussion."


----------



## Terex (Jan 3, 2005)

mgringle said:


> This is and interesting observation from the above article: "Concussions are becoming a hot-button topic in cycling, as scores of amateur and professional racers have seen their careers derailed by head injuries. Chris Horner dropped out of the 2011 Tour de France after crashing onto his head during the seventh stage stage. Tom Boonen also abandoned that year’s Tour after crashing on his head. American *Evelyn Stevens* cracked her teeth and suffered a minor concussion after crashing at the Classica Citta di Padova race this past March. And American cyclists Scott Nydam and Sinead Miller both saw their promising careers end after suffering numerous concussion."


I've ridden with her. Maybe there is a connection? 

Seriously, hadn't heard that. In addition to my concussions, my youngest daughter has caps on her two front teeth from a cycling accident in her youth. Both together would really suck...


----------



## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

mgringle said:


> With aero being the new helmet craze, I wonder why people are not demanding that helmet manufacturers make SAFER helmets, instead of simply marginally better looking and/or marginally more aero helmets. If those that use helmets start demanding helmets that are safer than ones my grandpa used back in the day, they will listen. I'm told by a Scott helmet dealer that Scott cannot keep MIPS models in stock. Might be true, might not. But I want a safer helmet, not just a clone of what I've had for years with more vents and a few less grams... If you don't use a helmet, your choice and I really don't want to go down that rat hole.


Well, to my knowledge there are no MIPS road helmets. I would seriously u consider one if there were any.


----------



## MrMook (Nov 18, 2007)

NJBiker72 said:


> Well, to my knowledge there are no MIPS road helmets. I would seriously u consider one if there were any.


Tell me the functional difference between a road helmet, and something like the POC "all mountain" Trabec helmet (with MIPS). If you're really concerned about safety (not fashion or "aero"), there should be no question. When I had my Trabec, it was very light, and had great ventilation. As I said above, the fit didn't work for my head, and I went with another all-mountain style helmet. No MIPS, but greater coverage on the back of the head than a "road" helm.


----------



## scryan (Jan 24, 2011)

I would think one huge issue is there is absolutely no real way for a consumer to compare the safety of one helmet vs another.

Other then having the manufacturer say "Hey bro, this one is safe as ****", and you being like "K, cool beans".... How are you going to be attracted to one helmet over another based on safety? Unless you completely revamp the certification process its pass/fail.

Also, who makes the coolest sexiest car?
Volvo right? 

What do you mean Porsche? The Volvo is so much safer....


----------



## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

MrMook said:


> Tell me the functional difference between a road helmet, and something like the POC "all mountain" Trabec helmet (with MIPS). If you're really concerned about safety (not fashion or "aero"), there should be no question. When I had my Trabec, it was very light, and had great ventilation. As I said above, the fit didn't work for my head, and I went with another all-mountain style helmet. No MIPS, but greater coverage on the back of the head than a "road" helm.


I will not say that fashion, aero and weight are irrelevant. I also do not want a helmet with a visor to block my view and also possibly defeat any benefit by adding a rotational obstacle. 

Plus it seems if they can make these for mountain bikes they can for road bikes too. So why spend the money on some heavy clunky thing when someone you would think would make a decent one soon enough. 

The Giro Air Attack seems like it could be done with MIPS tech fairly easily. But that is taking on two market niches at a time.


----------



## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

scryan said:


> I would think one huge issue is there is absolutely no real way for a consumer to compare the safety of one helmet vs another.
> 
> Other then having the manufacturer say "Hey bro, this one is safe as ****", and you being like "K, cool beans".... How are you going to be attracted to one helmet over another based on safety? Unless you completely revamp the certification process its pass/fail.
> 
> ...


As Lee Iacoca said when designing the Pinto, "Safety doesn't sell."


----------



## MrMook (Nov 18, 2007)

NJBiker72 said:


> I will not say that fashion, aero and weight are irrelevant. I also do not want a helmet with a visor to block my view and also possibly defeat any benefit by adding a rotational obstacle.
> 
> Plus it seems if they can make these for mountain bikes they can for road bikes too. So why spend the money on some heavy clunky thing when someone you would think would make a decent one soon enough.
> 
> The Giro Air Attack seems like it could be done with MIPS tech fairly easily. But that is taking on two market niches at a time.


Have you ever ridden with another style of helmet? None of your concerns are founded in reality.

Visor: Not only are visors removable, they're designed to snap off if there's an impact, so they don't interfere at all. When I had my Trabec, I rode without the visor, because my commuter and road bike are set up in a more forward position, where visors aren't very useful. My current Fox Flux visor is so short, I can barely see it through my eyebrows. 

Road helmet with MIPS: Again, what's the difference? Sure, someone will eventually build a road "styled" helmet with this technology, but I see no reason you'd need to wait around until then. 

Weight: None of my helmets are clunky. Sure, a Bern or a Skate style helmet can be clunky, and they fit like crap, but that's now what we're talking about here. I'm sure the lightest Catlike is a few grams lighter than an all-mountain helmet, but IF safety is your concern, shouldn't a negligible weight difference be....well.....negligible? 

Aero: SRSLY?


----------



## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

MrMook said:


> Have you ever ridden with another style of helmet? None of your concerns are founded in reality.
> 
> Visor: Not only are visors removable, they're designed to snap off if there's an impact, so they don't interfere at all. When I had my Trabec, I rode without the visor, because my commuter and road bike are set up in a more forward position, where visors aren't very useful. My current Fox Flux visor is so short, I can barely see it through my eyebrows.
> 
> ...


1. Yes. Road is more comfortable and yes more stylish, especially for road riding.
2. None of them are deal breakers. If I needed a new helmet and one was truly safer. That would be a huge factor in my decision. But I have a perfectly good Specialized Echelon (a similar model possibly saved my life) and Spec just sent me a new Prevail. Not what I would have ordered, but . . .

And as for fashion, it is less about fashion, than being the weird slow guy in the mountain bike helmet on the group ride. And well, for now, I am going to be the slow guy. So . . .


----------



## mtor (Mar 1, 2007)

mgringle said:


> With aero being the new helmet craze, I wonder why people are not demanding that helmet manufacturers make SAFER helmets, instead of simply marginally better looking and/or marginally more aero helmets. If those that use helmets start demanding helmets that are safer than ones my grandpa used back in the day, they will listen. I'm told by a Scott helmet dealer that Scott cannot keep MIPS models in stock. Might be true, might not. But I want a safer helmet, not just a clone of what I've had for years with more vents and a few less grams... If you don't use a helmet, your choice and I really don't want to go down that rat hole.


What is MIPS?


----------



## mgringle (May 20, 2011)

mtor said:


> What is MIPS?


MIPS | Take a look in the latest issue of Popular Science


----------



## kmak (Sep 5, 2011)

Terex said:


> I bought a POC Trabec Race with MIPS. It's a mtb helmet, but it has what appears to be the best protection.


+1

I did the same thing, fit is good. The helmet comes with a range of pads so that, with some effort, the helmet is snug on the head but still comfortable. And the visor snaps off easily. Although I do look like a star wars storm trooper while wearing it with my all white kit.....


----------



## Lotophage (Feb 19, 2011)

Part of the reason I ditched my LAS Squalo and replaced it with a Lazer Helium (despite the fact that the lazer is a lot heavier) is that the lazer has a fairly smooth outer surface- the Squalo is a mess of pavement-catching peaks and points that look cool but are kinda dangerous in a crash. 

I've got a POC Trabec Race as well, and while it's a great helmet for MTBing, it's big, heavy and not well vented. That's part of the reason I bought it- for me, MTBing is mostly winter fatbiking, and for that, the Trabec is awesome. Less so in 90 degree heat. 

So much of helmet design is non-functional style, and I totally get that- who wants to wear a dorky looking helmet? 

Giro's Air Attack helmet has a very round, no cool-looking pointy-bits style that would probably do very well in a head sliding on the ground test. But... it looks kinda dorky. 

So the real question is, can you make a safer helmet with no pavement catching pointy bits that's got good ventilation and looks cool?


----------



## Jajo (Apr 12, 2013)

flatsix911 said:


> If you are still concerned after reading the research literature, just purchase a motorcycle helmet with a current DOT certification :thumbsup:


That would be a huge mistake.


----------



## Terex (Jan 3, 2005)

MrMook said:


> Have you ever ridden with another style of helmet? None of your concerns are founded in reality.
> 
> Visor: Not only are visors removable, they're designed to snap off if there's an impact, so they don't interfere at all. When I had my Trabec, I rode without the visor, because my commuter and road bike are set up in a more forward position, where visors aren't very useful. My current Fox Flux visor is so short, I can barely see it through my eyebrows.
> 
> ...


My helmets : 
LAS Squalo (a flashy road helmet), Large 320 g.
POC Trabec Race (not flashy off-road helmet), Large 350 g., and that includes weight of visor.

I love the fit of my Squalo, and the inserts are nice. The POC fits OK, has amazing airflow but needs a bug mesh. Holes are big enough to trap hummingbirds.

And if anyone is interested in a nice LAS Squalo with only minor cracking at the right temple, I have two of them...


----------



## skitorski (Dec 4, 2012)

MrMook said:


> DOT certification is self-policed...MFRs vouch for themselves meeting the criteria. Snell certification is much more rigorous and requires that each product be tested by the Snell Foundation. They have a bicycle helmet cert. as well.


The SNELL certification for motorcycles is garbage and kills people, causes brain damage. A self inflating self promoting sales gimmick founded in completely inappropriate "self made tests" that have no bearing in preventing brain damage. In motorcycle helmets at least, the DOT is much more relevant and safer for the end user.

I will have to some how find the Motorcyclist Magazine from about 2005 that exposes the SNELL scam. I would never touch a helmet that had SNELL on it. If their bike helmet cert is as deceptive and deadly as their Motorcycle helmet garbage, I would rather go without.

The DOT cert has some enforcement teeth, I can't recall exactly, but the manufacturers have a stake in meeting the tested standard.


----------



## johnlink (Jun 12, 2010)

lazybean said:


> [T]he mips system is great for tight fighting secured helmets. but most bicycle helmets are not tight fitting, except for some MTB helmets. The purpose of the mips is to allow the helmet to rotate around the head a little, reducing the rotational force, thus reducing the chance/severity of a concussion.
> 
> That's great on full face and tightly secured helmets like snowboard helmets, but not necessarily on a reg bicycle helmet. Most people never wear the chin strap so tightly pulled so the helmet can not rotate. We wear them lose, they are there to keep the helmet from falling off in a crash. As a result the helmet will rotate without the mips system being necessary.


I'm glad to have found your post, lazybean. I've been waiting for someone to make a MIPS helmet for road bikers but maybe there's no need to wait. The way I wear my helmet there is the ability of the helmet to rotate on my head. Even if I tighten the strap and the spiderlock so that it is uncomfortably tight there is still some ability for the helmet to rotate.


----------



## Donn12 (Apr 10, 2012)

FEATURES: FIRST LOOK: POC UNVEILS NEW HELMETS AND CLOTHING

POC has road helmets coming out soon. Based on how much better the Trabec Race helmet I have is vs every thing else I tried, I will definitely pic up one of the new road helmets as soon as they are available


----------



## rainxman (Sep 18, 2013)

Donn12 said:


> FEATURES: FIRST LOOK: POC UNVEILS NEW HELMETS AND CLOTHING
> 
> POC has road helmets coming out soon. Based on how much better the Trabec Race helmet I have is vs every thing else I tried, I will definitely pic up one of the new road helmets as soon as they are available


No MIPS with the new helmet. The Trabec seems like it offers more protection at a lower cost. This one just seems to reduce weight and offer more ventilation.


----------



## Herkwo (Nov 8, 2002)

Resurrecting an old thread...
New helmets integrating MIPS technology are on the near horizon and should be available this fall. Of interest to me are the POC Octal MIPS and the Smith Overtake MIPS. 
I'm getting my Christmas list together for Santa... So... Are there any other new ones out there to consider?

POC Unveils Octal AVIP MIPS Helmet | RoadCycling.com - Pro road cycling news, results, interviews, reviews, videos, bike shop, magazine, opinion and more

Interbike: Smith Overtake helmet with MIPS technology | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos

The Smith appears to be my preferred option at the moment due to the newer MIPS rotational technology allowing the helmet to pivot multi-directional upon impact vs. the older fore-aft pivoting only. It also has varied color options that range from basic all white or matte black to some that will clearly standout.

Thoughts?


----------



## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Herkwo said:


> Resurrecting an old thread...
> New helmets integrating MIPS technology are on the near horizon and should be available this fall. Of interest to me are the POC Octal MIPS and the Smith Overtake MIPS.
> I'm getting my Christmas list together for Santa... So... Are there any other new ones out there to consider?
> 
> ...


Both look nice and both companies have great reps. I really like the look of the Smith too. Surprised how heavy it is though. Not sure how I would like that coming from an S-Works Prevail (sometimes have to feel my head to make sure I remembered it).


----------



## Donn12 (Apr 10, 2012)

I picked up the POC Octal - great helmet. I may get the MIPS version when it arrives.....cant be too safe


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Donn12 said:


> I picked up the POC Octal - great helmet. I may get the MIPS version when it arrives.....cant be too safe


I'm liking my Octal also, but I'm not going to worry about the MIPS until it becomes new helmet time.


----------



## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

NJBiker72 said:


> Both look nice and both companies have great reps. I really like the look of the Smith too. Surprised how heavy it is though. Not sure how I would like that coming from an S-Works Prevail (sometimes have to feel my head to make sure I remembered it).


I've been looking at the Lazer Helium MIPS, although nobody locally seems to carry the MIPS version.
I had to replace my MTB helmet recently after an accident (concussion, whiplash, etc..) and got a Scott Lin helmet w/ MIPS- Love it! They have a heavier one, the Stego, that's more like the POC Octal, but it was definitely heavier than non-MIPS.


----------

