# Bike for Short Rider



## trobriand

I'm trying to help a friend bike shop. She's 5' 1.5" with a 28" inseam. Her height seems to be limiting the choices to just WSD bikes.

The LBS has a 48 cm Specialized Dolce in stock. She has zero stand over height. The seat post has 2-3 inch exposed, so she has no drop to the bars without flipped the stem upside down.

Is anyone close to her measurements? I'd like to see her on a 47 cm Trek, because it appears to be slightly smaller than the Specialized bike. We'll be ordering through the LBS, because we can get a rather large break on bikes. They carry mainly Specialized and Trek, I haven't asked about pricing on Giants (how different is the fit?). One option is to drive 90 minutes, because a shop there should have the Trek and Giant bikes in stock. However, I don't want to abuse a store I wouldn't be ordering through, but I could ask about paying for a quick fit.

I'm at a loss with fitting a woman, so any advice is greatly appreciated.


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## il sogno

Stand over-wise she should have about an inch or so of play between her and the top tube. 

Have you looked into bikes with 650 wheels?


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## MarkyMarc

Hi, 
Thought I might be able to contribute something. As you can see from the picture here and on the thread about the Orbea Diva, my partner is around 5' 1" and rides a 49cm frame. Previous to this she was on the Specialized Dolce from 2005 I think (48cm).

When I first met her she had a crazy position on the Specialized - the saddle was high and forward and had a 105mm stem on it!! Long story short, we put a 70mm stem on it and changed her saddle to a narrower, better fitting one (the stock Dolce was so wide her small sit bone width forced her to sit forwards on the saddle). Next step was to get the saddle lower and a bit further back to give her a better relationship with the bottom bracket. The end result was a lot more comfort and a much more powerful position, especially for hill climbing.

When she got the Orbea we tried to replicate the position as best we could. On both bikes the handlebars are level with the saddle, but due to her height and proportions, this is a very aggressive position.

The most important thing is to try and achieve an efficient and comfortable position - all the things you do to fit yourself apply to her too - the end result will look quite different to an average size males bike. Maybe ask around for some experienced bike fitter recommendations. BUT - be wary of people who insist on doggedly following some formula or system, or those who insist you can't run a 70mm stem on a road bike because it's just not right. You are looking for a balanced powerful position - 'rules' derived from generalizing 5'8" to 6' males will not apply.

Good luck


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## il sogno

trobriand said:


> I'm trying to help a friend bike shop. She's 5' 1.5" with a 28" inseam. Her height seems to be limiting the choices to just WSD bikes.
> 
> The LBS has a 48 cm Specialized Dolce in stock. She has zero stand over height. The seat post has 2-3 inch exposed, so she has no drop to the bars without flipped the stem upside down.


Specialized makes their bikes in a size 44cm. That might suit her better.


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## CougarTrek

I agree with Marky.

At 4'11.5" I ride an XS Wilier Izoard (51.5 TT, 41.6 ST C-to-C). Don't let the tiny seattube measurement fool you, this equates to what most brands would label 46-49. FYI, this is NOT a WSD bike and most of the 7 bikes I tested before buying it were not either. 

I have 4.5 inches of seat post showing (6.5 inches if measured to the center of the top tube) and little to no saddle to bar drop (I could get it if I wanted to since this bike has a short head tube, but my position is plenty aggressive for my tastes while still being comfortable). I don't have much standover. Enough that I can stand flatfooted over the bike in shoes without touching, but not much more. It's a road bike not a mountain bike, it doesn't bother me at all.

My bike setup wise looks quite similar to Marky's posted Orbea (headtube is shorter, so I have 2 spacers in there, but otherwise very similar).

I couldn't be happier. (and yes, the bike was professionally fitted. Fitter couldn't be happier either).

I think Marky is on to something when he says you simply can't scale down the "rules" from a 5'8" male and expect them to work for her. By the "rules" my bike probably doesn't fit, but to get one to fit by those "rules" I'd be looking at 24 inch wheels, a custom frame, etc, etc, which is ridiculous IMO. By a professional fitting (angles, etc), my bike fits me fine, and judging by how much my riding has improved is plenty aggressive in position despite lack of saddle to bar drop.

Your friend, IMO, needs to try as many bikes as she can get her hands on and get a feel for what works for her, or maybe seek the advice of a professional fitter that isn't just going to throw the "WSD", "650B", "custom frame", "need this bar drop, and that standover, and this much seatpost" crap at her.

Incidentally, I rode the 48cm Ruby and the 47cm Trek Madone. The Ruby was the smallest feeling bike out of all of them. To the point that I, personally, felt cramped and would have needed a longer stem. So my suspicion is that the Trek won't "ride" any smaller than the Specialized. The Trek may have more standover though, I don't remember, and of course fit and feel depend on the rider.


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## hawker12

Trobriand,

No affiliation here...but I think you might find some of the earlier podcasts from Georgina Terry at Terry Bicycles helpful. I'm a guy (a short guy) and I found them informative. http://www.terrybicycles.com/podcast


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## nibbler

I am 5'0" and have a 26" inseam. I can ride a 44 Specialized, a 44 Fuji, and a 47 Trek (you're right, Trek sizes quite differently). I can ride all of these bikes with 700 wheels. I do use road shoes that give me a bit more clearance. As long as she is comfortable riding on a bike with little standover room, it's not necessary to have the 2" recommended height. The 2" recommended height is more of a guideline for the distance from seat to handlebars. You can always change the stem length from the factory model. Most shops will trade this part out for free.


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## theBreeze

When you say 28" inseam is that her pants measurement or true cycing inseam? I am 5' 1.75" and have a pants inseam of 29". I ride a stock Gunnar Roadie in a 50 cm (CT) measurement. Like Marky and Cougartrek have stated, don't only look at WSD labled bikes. It's been several years since I shopped, but my experience with some womens' bikes is that the cockpit seems too short, and I have a short torso! Also some come with really narrow bars and can be twitchy to handle. Also womens' saddles can be too wide for smaller women. Selle Italia women's saddles have worked ok for me, as well as Terry Men's Fly.


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## nibbler

When I say 5'0" and 26" inseam, I mean that I am standing with the measuring tape under my heel and the other end at my crotch. But I also have an insanely long torso.

And a bit more info on the 47 Trek, I need a different seat. The factory-build seat has to much height built into it, so I need like a Specialized Ruby factory-build seat.


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## trobriand

She ended up with a 2010 Trek 2.1 WSD 47cm. She looks good, but it'll need a longer stem.

She has complained about seat discomfort, especially the nose. I tilted the nose down a little from where we started it, and she says it has greatly improved the pressure. She needs sometime to get use to being on a saddle, but what signs should I watch out for, that would indicate this one is/isn't work for her?


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## il sogno

trobriand said:


> She ended up with a 2010 Trek 2.1 WSD 47cm. She looks good, but it'll need a longer stem.
> 
> She has complained about seat discomfort, especially the nose. I tilted the nose down a little from where we started it, and she says it has greatly improved the pressure. She needs sometime to get use to being on a saddle, but what signs should I watch out for, that would indicate this one is/isn't work for her?


Have her ride it a few more times. It takes a couple of rides to get used to being on a saddle. Ask if the saddle pain is from her sit bones or from the crotch area "down in front". 

Seems strange she would need a longer stem. When she is riding on the bar tops, can she see the front hub? This aspect of bike fit is pretty much how you would fit a man's bike. Ideally the handlebar should block her view of the front hub. 

Otherwise it sounds like she got herself a good bike that's as close to a good fits as any. Hope she enjoys it.


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## JayTee

Obviously there's not a direct correlation between height and frame size (too many other variables) but I'd be surprised if anyone's 47 or 48 is the right choice for a rider under 5'2" and being on too big a bike has made many a woman rider sore and crabby. If the standover is a close call, there's a possibility that the reach won't be right either. 

Ditto to the suggestion of 650 wheels and looking at manufacturers with 44cm options.


EDIT: I see you already made your choice, but I'll leave my thoughts up anyway FWIW.


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## jorgy

JayTee said:


> Obviously there's not a direct correlation between height and frame size (too many other variables) but I'd be surprised if anyone's 47 or 48 is the right choice for a rider under 5'2" and being on too big a bike has made many a woman rider sore and crabby. If the standover is a close call, there's a possibility that the reach won't be right either.
> 
> Ditto to the suggestion of 650 wheels and looking at manufacturers with 44cm options.
> 
> 
> EDIT: I see you already made your choice, but I'll leave my thoughts up anyway FWIW.


I dunno, it sounds like the right size going from the geometry on Trek's website. I'm 5'4" and ride a 49cm "men's" bike. The 47cm Trek would definitely be too small for me. I'd probably ride the 50cm version.

But I agree with you that many small women end up on bikes that just don't fit.


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## Trek2.3

You should have tried a Trek *43cm* frame. But, of course, you couldn't find one. Trek dealers hide them. 

I'm a 5'5" male (with shorter male legs) and it is the only bike I can safely ride. I have a 43cm Trek 2.3 and absolutely love it!!!


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## hawker12

Trek2.3 said:


> You should have tried a Trek *43cm* frame. But, of course, you couldn't find one. Trek dealers hide them.
> 
> I'm a 5'5" male (with shorter male legs) and it is the only bike I can safely ride. I have a 43cm Trek 2.3 and absolutely love it!!!


I presume this would correlate with the XS frame that Giant makes which has a seat tube of 44cm. But because the Giant frames are meant to span a range of heights the top tube can be a tiny bit long if you are on the shorter end of the range. Is the 43cm Trek a standard frame or compact geometry?


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## Trek2.3

hawker12 said:


> I presume this would correlate with the XS frame that Giant makes which has a seat tube of 44cm. Is the 43cm Trek a standard frame or compact geometry?


1. *NEVER assume anything about bike frames. * 44cm means something as compared to 64cm frame but it probably means nothing (or something incongruous) as compared to a 43cm frame. Remember that the standover height can very 5cm between bikes advertised as 1cm apart.

2. *One manufacturer's "compact" frame is not necessarily even close to another's.* Trek's WSD frames are probably what you mean (but I really have no idea) by compact. 

3. *The cycling industry should be ashamed that they cannot agree on a single, unfudgable measurement that will accurately predict bike fit.* You have to sit ON each bike before you buy it. With smaller frames this can be a problem because many dealers will order them after purchase but will NOT carry one in inventory.


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## Trek2.3

Trek does make the best bike for a short person. *Standover on the 43cm WSD is only 64cm. That's the lowest in the industry for a full fledged adult road bike.*

Last night I tried a Specialized Ruby in their so-called 44cm frame. The top bar (the one that hits your crotch) is* 5cm higher *than that on the Trek 43cm frame. It's the same height as Trek's 47cm frame. If you had ordered one sight unseen, you would get an expensive surprise. Very expensive.

Ouch!


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## teadough

*Gt Gtr Series 4*

Hi all,
I'm *very new* to the riding world and am running into some trouble with finding the right bike for myself. I'm about 5'0" with a 26" (ish) inseam. I tried on a XS GT GTR Series 4 this afternoon and their was no room between the top tube & my body, however no uncomfortable. My feet were not completely flat on the ground, but wasn't too far off. Nonetheless, it was the smallest bike I could find this afternoon so I test rode it. 

I didn't feel too uncomfortable, however after the salesman talking to me - he was stating how the pedals seem to long (actually it was the bars the pedals were attached to. I forget what he called them).

Should this be a deal breaker in considering this bike? The salesman discouraged me in getting the bike and also told me I was in an odd "in-between" height; child's bike would be too small. XS adult bike too big.

I'm really not sure what to look for or how it should feel when riding.

Any guidance would help and pre-apologies for lack of knowledge of verbiage.

Thanks again,
- T


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## il sogno

teadough said:


> Hi all,
> I'm *very new* to the riding world and am running into some trouble with finding the right bike for myself. I'm about 5'0" with a 26" (ish) inseam. I tried on a XS GT GTR Series 4 this afternoon and their was no room between the top tube & my body, however no uncomfortable. My feet were not completely flat on the ground, but wasn't too far off. Nonetheless, it was the smallest bike I could find this afternoon so I test rode it.
> 
> I didn't feel too uncomfortable, however after the salesman talking to me - he was stating how the pedals seem to long (actually it was the bars the pedals were attached to. I forget what he called them).
> 
> Should this be a deal breaker in considering this bike? The salesman discouraged me in getting the bike and also told me I was in an odd "in-between" height; child's bike would be too small. XS adult bike too big.
> 
> I'm really not sure what to look for or how it should feel when riding.
> 
> Any guidance would help and pre-apologies for lack of knowledge of verbiage.
> 
> Thanks again,
> - T


It looks to me as if the bike is too big for you. There should be clearance between your crotch and the top tube. 1/2 inch to an inch would be good. 

Fit is everything. I would say no to the GT's.

Check out the Trek 1 Series road bikes. They might have something in your size. 

Good luck.


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## Trek2.3

Teadough,

The Trek 43cm WSD bikes fit you. No other brand will.


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## hawker12

At your size finding the correct size bike is everything. What seems OK around the parking lot may be very uncomfortable after ten or fifteen miles. I agree the bike you tested sounds too big and would suggest you consider a bike with 650 wheels instead of 700c or at least with a front 650 wheel. They were made for folks your size.

Let me also suggest you do some reading at two other sites where there are more than a few folks with the same concern.

www.teamestrogen.com

www.terrybicycles.com

http://www.terrybicycles.com/podcast (check out "Small things considered, July 6)


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## Trek2.3

Remember that since the industry does not control the location of the ground or of the end of of your torso where the last bits in your crotch end (guys need 2 extra inches), *standover height* is the ONLY number they can not fudge. Every rider needs at least *2.5 cm of free space*. Without it, someday, you WILL get hurt.

What is the standover height?

Standover height is usually measured 6" horizontally in front of the seat post. Measure the vertical distance from the upper surface of the top tube (crossbar) to the ground. It measures whether you can "stand over" the top tube without it bumping into any part of your crotch. * That's the crucial size measurement on any bike.*

Trek's 43cm WSD bike has the lowest standover height in the industry by a good 2.5cm (1.0 inch) or more.


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## cyclequip

Trek2.3 said:


> Remember that since the industry does not control the location of the ground or of the end of of your torso where the last bits in your crotch end (guys need 2 extra inches), *standover height* is the ONLY number they can not fudge. Every rider needs at least *2.5 cm of free space*. Without it, someday, you WILL get hurt.
> 
> What is the standover height?
> 
> Standover height is usually measured 6" horizontally in front of the seat post. Measure the vertical distance from the upper surface of the top tube (crossbar) to the ground. It measures whether you can "stand over" the top tube without it bumping into any part of your crotch. * That's the crucial size measurement on any bike.*
> 
> Trek's 43cm WSD bike has the lowest standover height in the industry by a good 2.5cm (1.0 inch) or more.


Well you certainly have waffled on about "standover height". Interesting then that this is not a concept ever considered by a decent bike fitter. All that really matters is the fit of the bike with the rider in place. What point pushing for your minimum standover height criterion if the bike cannot be fit to the rider?


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## Trek2.3

cyclequip said:


> Well you certainly have waffled on about "standover height". Interesting then that this is not a concept ever considered by a decent bike fitter. All that really matters is the fit of the bike with the rider in place. What point pushing for your minimum standover height criterion if the bike cannot be fit to the rider?


Why? Because I once had to stop fast (cyclist in front of me slammed on the brakes) , popped off the seat, and had a black and blue XXXX for a week. That will get your attention. If the fit is too tight and your knees bend at all to absorb shock, you'll get hurt.

Of course the other elements of the bike are all part of the package. *But, THEY can be altered.* For example, saddle to pedal distance is easily remedied by raising the saddle and extended stems and head tube extensions are available, and so forth. 

The distance between the upper surface of the top tube and the ground is fixed (welded) unless you put a 650 wheelset on a bike designed for 700's. But, even then, the adjustment is very little and fixed thereafter. 

Remember that cyclists are supposed to stop for stop signs and follow other rules of the road. *Putting your feet on the ground IS part of cycling.* If bike fitters are ignoring that, and cyclists are smacking their tender parts on the top bar, it might explain why so many "blow" stop signs. And, of course, blowing stop signs is a major cause of cyclist injury and death. But, of course, stopping isn't part of "riding" for the incompetent bike fitters, is it?

Just because it's not done doesn't meant it shouldn't BE done.

Perhaps your "decent" bike fitter is not so "competent" after all? I don't trust them after four in a row claimed that I should ride a 50cm frame. Even I knew that was physically impossible and the "fitters" did too after I tried one for each and the top bar buried itself in my XXXX.


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## cyclequip

Trek2.3 said:


> Why? Because I once had to stop fast (cyclist in front of me slammed on the brakes) , popped off the seat, and had a black and blue XXXX for a week. That will get your attention. If the fit is too tight and your knees bend at all to absorb shock, you'll get hurt.
> 
> Of course the other elements of the bike are all part of the package. *But, THEY can be altered.* For example, saddle to pedal distance is easily remedied by raising the saddle and extended stems and head tube extensions are available, and so forth.
> 
> The distance between the upper surface of the top tube and the ground is fixed (welded) unless you put a 650 wheelset on a bike designed for 700's. But, even then, the adjustment is very little and fixed thereafter.
> 
> Remember that cyclists are supposed to stop for stop signs and follow other rules of the road. *Putting your feet on the ground IS part of cycling.* If bike fitters are ignoring that, and cyclists are smacking their tender parts on the top bar, it might explain why so many "blow" stop signs. And, of course, blowing stop signs is a major cause of cyclist injury and death. But, of course, stopping isn't part of "riding" for the incompetent bike fitters, is it?
> 
> Just because it's not done doesn't meant it shouldn't BE done.
> 
> Perhaps your "decent" bike fitter is not so "competent" after all? I don't trust them after four in a row claimed that I should ride a 50cm frame. Even I knew that was physically impossible and the "fitters" did too after I tried one for each and the top bar buried itself in my XXXX.


More waffle, more twaddle. Riding bicycles means falling, sooner or later. Your illustration of slamming on brakes could result in just about anything. In addition, bike fitters actually do know about some of the asinine things you mention - they also know it is quite possible to stop with one foot still cleated in, slid forward off the saddle and dabbing down with one foot (or toe). But I'll defer to your 4 bike fits, stop sign blowing and welding acumen.


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## il sogno

cyclequip said:


> More waffle, more twaddle. Riding bicycles means falling, sooner or later. Your illustration of slamming on brakes could result in just about anything. In addition, bike fitters actually do know about some of the asinine things you mention - they also know it is quite possible to stop with one foot still cleated in, slid forward off the saddle and dabbing down with one foot (or toe). But I'll defer to your 4 bike fits, stop sign blowing and welding acumen.


Sure we've all had a spill or two or three. But if we can avoid getting a bruised crotch by riding a proper fitted frame we'll be all the happier for it.


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## Trek2.3

il sogno said:


> Sure we've all had a spill or two or three. But if we can avoid getting a bruised crotch by riding a proper fitted frame we'll be all the happier for it.


Bingo!


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## JulesYK

cyclequip said:


> More waffle, more twaddle. Riding bicycles means falling, sooner or later. Your illustration of slamming on brakes could result in just about anything. In addition, bike fitters actually do know about some of the asinine things you mention - they also know it is quite possible to stop with one foot still cleated in, slid forward off the saddle and dabbing down with one foot (or toe). But I'll defer to your 4 bike fits, stop sign blowing and welding acumen.


Having adequate standover and proper fit may not be the same thing. If my wife had the choice of two bikes, both with the same relative saddle, BB and handlebar positions, but one with a lower standover, I guarantee you that she would pick the lower standover every time. She is somebody for whom it is very hard to find a small enough frame as it is, and the standover of the 43cm Trek WSD is a huge boon for her; she was not comfortable with the standover on the 47cm model, and that was a huge issue. I have not doubt that a frame that small has compromises, and a very compact frame may not look PRO, but standover can be important if it doesn't compromise the overall fit of the bike. And to be clear, at 4' 11", she has virtually no clearance on the 43cm Trek when she's just standing over the bike.


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## King Arthur

*other considerations*

probably already mentioned, but consider a custom made bicycle. A little more cost involed, but you get the proper dimensions.


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## JulesYK

*Custom not always an option...*



King Arthur said:


> probably already mentioned, but consider a custom made bicycle. A little more cost involed, but you get the proper dimensions.


I could certainly get a custom aluminum, steel or Ti bike, but the fork choices are really limited if you want to go carbon fiber (mainly, an Alpha Q aero fork). Something with carbon stays was very difficult, and an all carbon custom fiber bike was out of the question (and cost prohibitive). My wife wanted to try a carbon bike, and the Trek 4.7 WSD is pretty much the only option out there.


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## Trek2.3

JulesYK said:


> My wife wanted to try a carbon bike, and the Trek 4.7 WSD is pretty much the only option out there.


If you can FIND a 43cm Madone 4.7, certainly have her try it. At her height, Trek owns the market.

But try a 2.1 too (remembering that the components on the 2.1 may not feel as smooth -- but that's cheap to fix)

I have a 2.3 (natch) that I've had reworked for me since I prefer a more upright riding position (essentially at no cost since my LBS promises to "make it fit"). I just passed on a 4.7 because I feel the different ride isn't worth the *huge* increase in cost. I got a 2.1 with full 105 components. It rides exactly the same as my 2.3 (in fact it IS a 2.3 now). There is nothing wrong with a quality aluminium bike.

Why two? Because I don't trust the MBA's at Trek to keep making the 43cm frame.


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## JulesYK

*Madone 4.7 43cm Arrived!*

Still need to do a fitting, but my wife's bike arrived at the LBS. Two disappointments were the lack of the DuoTap cutout in the chainstay and the crappy wheels (not even the Race model, it was something like SSR). Finding quality 650 wheels is tough. Hopefully, Nimble will start making their 650c Spider rims again soon... The bike came with plenty of spacers and a very short stem (60mm?), so we may not need to get a really upright stem (which she has on her current Trek 2300 43cm). The frame and finish was very nice, however. I'm getting the bike re-cabled with Gore fully-sealed cables, and then we're good to go!


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## cedberg

*PeeWee Biker*

I am 5'0" and just bought a Cannondale Synapse 44 cm. We played with the angle of the handlebars to make the reach more comfy, changed the seat to something a bit more ooh-la-la, and things are looking almost perfect. Even with a handlebar shim I still get some cramping in my thumbpads from the long hand stretch to the brake levers/shifters. That is the next thing to resolve. Being petite is a toughie in the world of bikes. 
We decided to stick with 700c tires rather than going to a bike with 650c for convenience. Nothing beats a proper fitting from someone that can do your measurements at the bikeshop.


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## velogy

*Female Specific Fit*

because I've had terrible fit from expert guys over the years i have done a ton of research and as a result become something of an expert on fit, women's fit and especially women's specific performance fit. if i can be a resource to you, great! i would love it if the stuff i've learned can be useful to others. 
best,
mary


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## cedberg

It looks as if I am going to have to shop for a different brake lever/shifter set up or go to a straight handlebar arrangement for my road bike. If I stay with what I have, I am eventually going to damage the tendons in my thumbs. As it is, I am avoiding hills so I don't have to brake much. Any advice as to a smaller/narrower set up or a good straight handlebar to put on my Cannondale?


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## JulesYK

*Bontrager Bar?*



cedberg said:


> It looks as if I am going to have to shop for a different brake lever/shifter set up or go to a straight handlebar arrangement for my road bike. If I stay with what I have, I am eventually going to damage the tendons in my thumbs. As it is, I am avoiding hills so I don't have to brake much. Any advice as to a smaller/narrower set up or a good straight handlebar to put on my Cannondale?


It's not easy finding really narrow drop bars, but my wife has liked the Bontrager aluminum WSD bars that came with her Trek bikes. Both are 38cm, and I believe it is is the WSD VR model. Trek makes tham as narrow as 36cm.


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## cedberg

It isn't so much the drop bars that are a problem. Mine are narrow for the smaller bike. It is the part of the brake that I have to wrap my thumb around in order to reach the brake lever and shifter that is causing my thumb pads ( the muscles on the palm of hand just below the thumbs) to cramp miserably. What does your wife have in the way of a braking/shifting set up?


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## JulesYK

*Not cheap, but maybe try different groups?*



cedberg said:


> It isn't so much the drop bars that are a problem. Mine are narrow for the smaller bike. It is the part of the brake that I have to wrap my thumb around in order to reach the brake lever and shifter that is causing my thumb pads ( the muscles on the palm of hand just below the thumbs) to cramp miserably. What does your wife have in the way of a braking/shifting set up?


Her old Trek had the Shimano R600 shifters (9-speed), which had a reach adjustment via a shim and may have been shaped a bit differently than the 7800/6600-series shifters. My wife's hands are tiny, so the reach adjustment was a big deal. The current 7900/6700 shifters are definitely fatter, which to me are more comfortable but could be harder to use with small hands. The narrowness of the 7800/6600 shifters is somewhat uncomfortable for me, which is why I'm looking forward to a switch at some point in the future. My wife also liked the feel of the Campy 10-speed shifter (which she tried in the store), but my understanding is that the current 11-speed shifters are shaped differently. 

Maybe you could go to the bike shop and see which of the big 3 (SRAM, Campy and Shimano) fit you best. Only your hands, bottom and feet touch the bike, and I'm a big believer in getting those touch points right.


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## cedberg

*You're so right!*

"Only your hands, bottom and feet touch the bike, and I'm a big believer in getting those touch points right."

You've really put it into perspective for me. The LBS has offered to switch out the handle bars to the straight style. Looks like I really need to go in and have them pull out all their resources and see if there is a viable WSD solution. :idea:


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## MarkyMarc

Hi,
Thought I'd throw in my two cents worth again 

Cedberg - changing to a flat bar fundamentally changes the way your bike will handle - if you don't change the stem. You will also be messing with swapping to flat bar shifters and brake levers - who is paying for those?
If you put a longer stem on with the flat bar it will help to correct how the bikes handling will be altered.....

I would be highly in favour of finding a solution for your issue with a drop bar if you possibly can - that's the way the bike was designed to work best. My first question for you would be 'do you ever use the drops whilst descending?' If not, why not? My thought would be to look hard at your bar/shifter setup in relation to your riding position. I believe that properly set up you can achieve a much better descending position in the drops - mostly due to weight distribution on the bike. Also, importantly, your hands are in a much more relaxed position on the bars (you don't have to grip so hard ) and you can often get a much more powerful grip on the bottom of the brake lever.

Is it possible for you to post a side-on picture of your bike so we can eyeball your setup? What is the handlebar that is fitted to your bike?

My this is getting wordy!

My reason for pursuing this line of questioning is that in my longish experience a lot of people on new road bikes never use the drops for a variety of reasons, doing themselves out of a very useful hand position. I don't know whether this applies to you or not, but I hope this gives you something to think about.

Cheers
Marc


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## cedberg

Marc, admittedly I do not use the drop when I am braking, mostly because I've yet to encounter a long enough hill to feel the need for sustained braking. But I will work with it to see if it is a solution that warrants a serious change in biking habits. I can post a pic when I get back from vacation, in about a week and a half. No, the bike won't be coming with me but will have to stay home and wait for my return.
:incazzato: <----my bike


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## velogy

Marc's two cents is worth a few bucks. These are all great questions and taking his line of advise will definitely help. It's worth going through the hassle of posting a picture and letting us take a look. Thanks Marc.
-Mary


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## cedberg

When I get back, what is the photo you want? I think you are asking for a side-view photo of
my bike. I can take that easily. I can also take a photo of my handlebar set-up. Let me know if this is what you want. Look for it in about a week and a half.


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## BryanSayer

Very few people can actually measure their inseam accurately.

That said, stand over clearance of 3/8" in socks is fine for most people.

Also, be sure you end up with an appropriate length crank arm. This can make a lot of difference.


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## Trek2.3

I wouldn't trust my *** to 1*.*0 cm of clearance. A tiny bend in your knees as your feet hit the ground and o-u-c-h.


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## iyeoh

Sorry, I don't mean to interject, but I've read this thread diligently. I believe in standover clearance myself and I can attest to the dangers of lack thereof. Not that its any worse, but I'm a guy and I'm sure my family crown jewels have taken their share of beating over the years, Thankfully, I'm already more than fully stocked with the little ones at home haha

OK. Has the original poster considered a 42 cm sloping center-to-top Colnago CX-1 ? Its a superlative carbon fiber frame. Yes, there's always this pesky issue of money, and other unimportant considerations like common sense and good judgment. But you live only once. Right?

Wrench Science can get you hooked up. Look at this beauty:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=205836


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## il sogno

I was always told to look for 1" top tube clearance.


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## adimiro

As a short statured person, these are my 0.02

(1) Proper top tube length is much more important than standover height for _road _bike fit. The standover obsession really comes from the mountain bike world of bike fitting.

(2) Go custom, without a doubt. It's really not that much more $$ than a high-end full stock bike. 

(3) Ditch the stock carbon fork and get your custom framebuider to build you one perfectly matched to the geometry of the frame. Steel is real and rides much smoother than a carbon fork IMHO (have had both).

(4) 650c wheels and 165 mm cranks

(5) Specialized makes road brake 'shims' for ShimanoUltegra to bring the reach closer. I've used them with good success, although they do tend to fall out and now keep a few sets handy. Been toying with 'glueing' them in for longer lasting retention. Most bike shops won't stock this small ticket item, but you can easily order from Specialized website.

(6) Most recently, went with SRAM Red shifters/brakes which have a reach adjustment. I think only the Dura Ace Shimano line has this feature.


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## il sogno

adimiro said:


> As a short statured person, these are my 0.02
> 
> (1) Proper top tube length is much more important than standover height for _road _bike fit. *The standover obsession really comes from the mountain bike world of bike fitting.*
> 
> (2) Go custom, without a doubt. It's really not that much more $$ than a high-end full stock bike.
> 
> (3) Ditch the stock carbon fork and get your custom framebuider to build you one perfectly matched to the geometry of the frame. Steel is real and rides much smoother than a carbon fork IMHO (have had both).
> 
> (4) 650c wheels and 165 mm cranks
> 
> (5) Specialized makes road brake 'shims' for ShimanoUltegra to bring the reach closer. I've used them with good success, although they do tend to fall out and now keep a few sets handy. Been toying with 'glueing' them in for longer lasting retention. Most bike shops won't stock this small ticket item, but you can easily order from Specialized website.
> 
> (6) Most recently, went with SRAM Red shifters/brakes which have a reach adjustment. I think only the Dura Ace Shimano line has this feature.


As a standover obsessed person, I believe standover obsession has been around long before mountain bikes.


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## adimiro

Right-o il Sogno, just meant that this measurement is much more relevant to proper sizing/fitting a mountain bike. Much less relevant to proper road bike position. 

Part of the 'small person' road bike fitting challenges is from designing around 700c wheels. The use of 650c let's the angles, standover, TT lengths, etc come together in much more natural proportions. Just my 0.02 after 5-6 custom built bikes over the past 20 + years of cycling as a 5'1'' adult cyclist.


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## Trek2.3

adimiro said:


> Much less relevant to proper road bike position.


Not if you are a male.


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## adimiro

Proper bike fitting is independent of gender, unless you're referring to differences in body proportions such as torso length, degree of flexibility, etc. Bike fitting is tailored to your position while 'riding' your bike. For a smaller rider, it will all come together properly with a custom frame, but not necessarily with stock Treks, Specialized, etc.


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## Trek2.3

*Quick stop, feet on ground with knees bent, ... ooooough!*



adimiro said:


> Proper bike fitting is independent of gender.


I'm sorry but I don't think you are equipped to refute my statement. If you were, you wouldn't.


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## adimiro

Trek2.3, according to your profile, you started riding in 2008 and own a stock bike. I'm happy that you feel your 43 cm Trek 2.3 will protect your family jewels so you can gain many more years of cycling expertise and experience.


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## Trek2.3

*There's experience and than there's EXPERIENCE.*

Never mind.


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