# Getting Lower



## hrumpole (Jun 17, 2008)

So this off-season, it's become clear to me that among my many limiters as a 42 year old is the fact that in order to be comfortable, I have to sit up like a sail, and the reason that I can't get any lower is because (1) my hips are too tight and (2) my glutes are not firing right-read: not at all. My bike fits, but I'm in what you might call a "touring" position. 

As someone thinking about his first race next year, this is something I'd like to improve over the off-season. What do people suggest for improving hip mobility in order to make a more aggressive position comfortable? If you had this problem and fixed it, what did the trick?


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

I had the problem and I fixed it. but I find difficult to explain how.

I followed advice given to me in this forum when I was having perineal and pudendal nerve problems that forced me to ride with a saddle with a big cutout and a nose very down

in a few words it was a matter of fitting better the sadle, my saddle is now lower ( 1 cm or more lower that I used to ride and find "right" during many years ) and flat, and I worked on my back flexibility, progresively on the bike, by sitting firmly on my seatbones and arching the back to reach lower but keeping the sit area with no pressure on the soft perineal parts.

I eventually managed to get more flexibility and now I can ride with a flat back, for long periods of time without disconfort or numbness. Sometimes I have somewhat some disconfort on the neck because when you are so low you need to bend the neck backwards to see the road ahead and as I had a whiplash accident some years ago, my neck is not in the best of shapes.

Part of it was to rely less on "crutches" like a big cutout saddle or high handlebars, and just pushing your limits little by little.

Maybe a coach or specialist on this can explain it better.

Ah and I am older than you so you are still young and can do it.


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## Rollo Tommassi (Feb 5, 2004)

*Kinda what Salsalover says*

I give him reps for the Girbecco avatar!

However, the concept of tilting the pelvis/rotating off the sit bones is difficult to describe. But it doesn't sound like your issue is the same as what Salsalover overcame.

Without seeing a side photo of you, but understanding the 'sail' comment, I would challenge the assertion that your 'hips are too tight'. If you can sit in a chair and cross your legs your hips aren't too tight (to rotate pelvis and get lower). 

It's all about the gut: core strength allows you to support your torso rather that the glutes and hip muscles hold you up. Of course, less gut helps too.


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## dcorn (Sep 1, 2011)

I had this problem at first too. I'm 26, so I don't think it was for lack of flexibility, but I just wasn't used to putting in so much effort while in a bent over position. When I started riding last October, my friend always commented on how straight up I was sitting and that I needed to get much lower. I couldn't even ride in the drops for more than a few minutes without getting bad cramps in my stomach. 

I think over quite a long period of time, I slowly got used to the position and very gradually changed my riding position. Flipped the stem, then took a few spacers out over the course of several months. Now a year later, I'm on a new bike with a more racy position, plus I have the stem flipped down and sitting straight on the headtube. Rode a century like this last weekend and the only issue I had was neck soreness from having to look up while in the drops for so long.

It just took practice for me, and it seems like you need more of the same. Try just basic stretching every day to build up your flexibility in the core area. You aren't going to gain any flexibility if you just sit up on the hoods on every training ride, so maybe alternate to the drops every once in a while until you are comfortable there for longer periods of time. Then you can slowly alter your position lower and lower.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Try incorporating flexibility to your workouts and make sure your bike is correctly fitted. 

Keep in mind that it's the the final kms of a race that really matter and you save the most energy by hiding in the group as much as possible. 

I wouldn't say to avoid aggressive geometry, but you need to balance having a position that's aero as well as something you can hold for the duration of a road race. I've seen a few riders who are a tad too aggressive and tend to fall apart a little early because they can't hold their position quite long enough for the duration of the event.


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## hrumpole (Jun 17, 2008)

Rollo Tommassi said:


> I give him reps for the Girbecco avatar!
> 
> If you can sit in a chair and cross your legs your hips aren't too tight (to rotate pelvis and get lower).


If you mean knee- on knee, then no, I can't. Tried it, and my adductors rebelled somewhat.


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## Rollo Tommassi (Feb 5, 2004)

*In that case!*

working on strengthening your adductors will go a long way. However, my analogy is to illustrate that the change from sitting to being more 'bent over' isn't due to *tightness* per se as it is a lack of development in the muscle groups.

Cycling develops the muscles in one plane of motion, the lateral motions are just not addressed. One reason why speed skating is the natural companion to cycling and vice versa. 

Hip movement is a complex thing involving the psoas, Adductor Magnus and Tensor fascia latae. Don't confuse lateral leg movement with pelvic rotation - but you need to increase strength in all hip flexors to do both.

For me, Pilates did wonders for core strength. I've always been super flexible (can touch palms flat to the ground in a hamstring stretch!) but my lack of muscle development in the adductor and iliopsoas groups limited my power and breathing.







hrumpole said:


> If you mean knee- on knee, then no, I can't. Tried it, and my adductors rebelled somewhat.


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## Chainstay (Mar 13, 2004)

I'm 58. When I was younger I had a lower riding position and then about 5 years ago I raised it to help with lower back problems. This year I am 10 pounds lighter and found I was able to drop the riding position. I think because I no longer have a gut.

My lower back has been better perhaps because of the lower weight but also through strengthening of my abs.


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## Donzo98 (Oct 1, 2008)

I am 47... started out riding about 3 yrs ago with a -6 degree stem... gradually became more flexible just by riding more. Went to -12.5 degree stem and now riding -17 with zero problems.


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## neverfree (Sep 17, 2010)

Yoga! and ride more!


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## ebarker9 (Dec 3, 2006)

I'd also suggest using a foam roller. Lots of info out there if you do some searching.


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## jake21 (Jul 29, 2005)

Also, some just can get lower.

I ride with two Physical Therapists and a phenomenal personal trainer. All are great cyclists and in great shape. I can just get lower. Have been able to for 11 years riding with them.

Look at the pros and how many different riding positions there are. Some are aero as hell, and some not.


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## Bridgestone (Sep 6, 2007)

And all this time I thought the object was to get higher


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

I find MTBing helps strengthen my core muscles because of all the shifting weight on the bike that's required. People who are new to mountain bike riding are often surprised by how much it works out your core. 

I can now flatten my fingers on the ground when touching my toes but can't get my palms flat! :yikes:


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

Salsa_Lover said:


> Part of it was to rely less on "crutches" like a big cutout saddle or high handlebars, and just pushing your limits little by little.


This, and stretch after every work out. Hip flexors, quads, hams, calves, core, back, neck. Everything.

I started with a huge stack of spacers on a 5.2 pro fit madone, and now a few years later I'm working on knocking out all the spacers (one half cm to go!) on a venge.


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## Oasisbill (Jan 15, 2011)

Download a book called "Flexibility for Cyclists", Written and produced by Fred and Kele McDaniel. It's only 13 pages long, but has all the appropriate stretches that will rectify your dilemma. (It costs, but it's fairly cheap). I have no association with them, but the book helped me...


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## apatron (Aug 6, 2010)

jsedlak said:


> This, and stretch after every work out. Hip flexors, quads, hams, calves, core, back, neck. Everything.
> 
> I started with a huge stack of spacers on a 5.2 pro fit madone, and now a few years later I'm working on knocking out all the spacers (one half cm to go!) on a venge.


I'm 46 and had a similar problem the streching was the key. Especially the gluts. My chiropractor gave me a set of streches to do and after a few weeks, a noticable improvement


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## SlowMover (Jun 6, 2010)

Remember, creating a low or flatter back can be done through stretching out as well. This is different from a TT position where you don't have the luxury of using your arms/elbows to expand and contract for position adjustment. In a TT position once you set your forearms/elbows in the cups you are more or less set in that position with very little movement available. Drop is your only way to lower your frontal profile in that discipline. You optimal hip angle for *best* power is what it is, we all have a narrow band of degrees that gives us our own best power. Once you find that angle between your torso upper thigh at bottom dead center then you can then decide how you want your cockpit set up on the road bike. The taller you are the easier this is done. I am 6'1" and used to ride 12cm of drop on a 56cm frame. It was fine riding that drop 15 years ago, but over time most of us lose some flexibility. I now ride 5cm of drop, longer stem and can get my back in the same orientation as I could on my 56cm Soloist, but do it by stretching out. No I don't look Euro Pro cool riding so little drop now, but that was never a priority. Comfort and power are a tricky trade off game. 

I could still ride tons of drop, but my default position on the hoods would be my only attainable position. Using an almost locked out elbow position with an uncomfortable amount of weight on the bars ain't my cup-a-tea. Now riding less drop my default is still hoods, but use a longer stem with a nice elbow flex and I can easily access all the other positions on the tops/drops. When I want to get low I use a bit more elbow flex and move on down to the drops. My frontal profile shots of me in the hooks on my road bike vs. my P3SL are nearly identical.

If you can get hold of a Look Ergostem to play around this will be immensely helpful.


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## naruto (Feb 21, 2011)

apatron said:


> I'm 46 and had a similar problem the streching was the key. Especially the gluts. My chiropractor gave me a set of streches to do and after a few weeks, a noticable improvement


yes, i have the same problem.


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