# My frame refinish and build



## innergel (Jun 14, 2002)

Reading this forum the last few weeks has inspired me to get off my back side and get the frame completed that I've had sitting in the garage since January or so. Everyone has done such a fine job of their refinishes and builds that I wanted to get mine into the mix. 

The frame is a 70's Fiorelli given to me for the cost of shipping by treebound, a fellow RBR member. It's nothing special, but it is steel, it'ss the perfect size for me and has tasty cutouts on the lugs. I stripped the frame with a wire wheel on my drill and some sandpaper. As soon as the wind dies down, I'll hit it with the primer. Hopefully this weekend will be OK.

Here is the stripped frame. Additional pics to come as I move along.


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## bigrider (Jun 27, 2002)

Are you going to grind off all the extra stuff like derr. hanger, rear brake cable guides, etc. ?


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## innergel (Jun 14, 2002)

bigrider said:


> Are you going to grind off all the extra stuff like derr. hanger, rear brake cable guides, etc. ?


I don't have a grinder or else I would the der. hanger. I am going to run a rear brake, so the cables guides will stay either way. I suppose I could buy a cutting wheel for my drill and do it that way?


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

innergel said:


> I don't have a grinder or else I would the der. hanger. I am going to run a rear brake, so the cables guides will stay either way. I suppose I could buy a cutting wheel for my drill and do it that way?



A wheel on a drill is difficult to control, too much torque. If you are going to try that, don't grind it all the way down, just close.....then finish ub by hand with flat file, file scratches can easily be removed with a flat stick (like a paint stirring stick) wrapped with wet or dry paper. I would go down to 600 on the metal. As for the der hanger, I would use a saw to cut it with, a fine metal tooth blade on a coping saw. Then file and sand. You could use that to remove the der cable guides as well. Even a dremel is hard to control unless you have a good speed control


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## innergel (Jun 14, 2002)

*Update - painting issues*

I have primed and painted the frame and it's looking good so far. (sorry no pics yet) I am having a bear of a time getting the lug cutouts to look presentable. I've tried a few different things but they both look horrible. The problem looks like welding around the cutouts is not too even, if that makes any sense. When I try to flow paint in there, it doesn't come out even. There's no even edge to the cutout to hold the paint. You can sort of see it in pics 2 & 3. Does that even make any sense? I've also tried my trusy fine tip paint pen, but it's not fine enough to get into the corners, so the filled lugs don't look crisp. Don't even ask about my attempts with a brush. That was a disaster.

So now the frame sits and I am racking my brain trying to figure out what to do. Is there a special technique I'm missing to get these lugs filled and looking good? Or should I just leave it as is and go the simple route - white frame with black headtube and seattube? It looks good like it is, but I think filled lugs would give it that extra something. 

Help!


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Just a thought, have you tried filling the lug cutouts and then touching up the background color around them?

maybe try masking over the cutouts then taking an x-acto with a new blade and removing the "centers" then flowing the paint in?....also maybe do them one at a time so you can keep the surface of the cutout as close to horizontal as possible?.... also......to get into the corners, TRY using a toothpick (round not flat..) to coax the paint in to the corner?

Please keep in mind that these are just suggestions and I have not tried them...but often if I have to "antique" a piece of jewelry or mask to plate.. I run into similiar problems. if the tape masking technique does not work there are other options... like some kind of water soluble glue or something?


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## innergel (Jun 14, 2002)

Touch0Gray said:


> Just a thought, have you tried filling the lug cutouts and then touching up the background color around them?
> 
> maybe try masking over the cutouts then taking an x-acto with a new blade and removing the "centers" then flowing the paint in?....also maybe do them one at a time so you can keep the surface of the cutout as close to horizontal as possible?.... also......to get into the corners, TRY using a toothpick (round not flat..) to coax the paint in to the corner?
> 
> Please keep in mind that these are just suggestions and I have not tried them...but often if I have to "antique" a piece of jewelry or mask to plate.. I run into similiar problems. if the tape masking technique does not work there are other options... like some kind of water soluble glue or something?


Excellent suggestions ToG. Last night I was thinking about masking and removing the centers, but I was thinking the paint might get under the tape. That would not be good. I'll have to be ultra careful and do some careful touch up.

The toothpick idea is a great one too. I'll try that. I could probably use some old wire or maybe a dental tool as well. There's bound to be something that I can try laying around the house. 

If these don't work, I'm going to leave as is. It's already taken me forever and I'm getting anxious to get it built up. Although I am having fun. I'll try and get a few pics up tonight.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

innergel said:


> Excellent suggestions ToG. Last night I was thinking about masking and removing the centers, but I was thinking the paint might get under the tape. That would not be good. I'll have to be ultra careful and do some careful touch up.
> 
> The toothpick idea is a great one too. I'll try that. I could probably use some old wire or maybe a dental tool as well. There's bound to be something that I can try laying around the house.
> 
> If these don't work, I'm going to leave as is. It's already taken me forever and I'm getting anxious to get it built up. Although I am having fun. I'll try and get a few pics up tonight.


Lug cutouts.. I just went through this with my Soma fork. Buy acrylic paint for the cutouts. Acrylic cleans up with water. I brushed paint into the hole and used a wet paper towel to clean off any overflow....It won't damage your frame color 

another thing to remember is you are focusing on the cutouts so you know where every flaw is located. Don't lose sleep because you don't think it looks perfect.. When you stand back and look at the frame as a whole, it will look great......


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## innergel (Jun 14, 2002)

Dave Hickey said:


> Lug cutouts.. I just went through this with my Soma fork. Buy acrylic paint for the cutouts. Acrylic cleans up with water. I brushed paint into the hole and used a wet paper towel to clean off any overflow....It won't damage your frame color
> 
> another thing to remember is you are focusing on the cutouts so you know where every flaw is located. Don't lose sleep because you don't think it looks perfect.. When you stand back and look at the frame as a whole, it will look great......


I tried the flow in/wipe off last night = not so good. I probably used too much paint. I'll try again tonight with ToG's masking and toothpick technique. 

And you aren't kidding that I'm focusing on all the imperfections. Every small blemish in the frame, welds and paint looks like it has a neon arrow pointing directly at it. The more I get up close to bike frames, the more I appreciate the high quality work that's out there. A lugged steel frame with a top notch paint job can be so beautiful. I really appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into it even more. 

As anal as I am, I would probably make someone a good apprentice and eventually a decent painter/framebuilder.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

LOL, I hear ya...I used to build models a lot and I'm really into little details...I took my a long time to realize that a bike frame is 50 times larger than the models I worked on and the little imperfections don't show...

I had to practically yank my custom frame out of the builders hand....To my eye, it looked perfect. To his eye, there were still flaws he wanted to correct....

the "artist" knows where the flaws are located. rarely will the people viewing the art know


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Exactly...stand back......great suggestion, one I normally igore....lol..unfortunately most of my work is literally examined under a 10 to 30x scope.

Acrylic is another great idea....The final clear coat will seall it all in... Another tool to get the paint where you want it might be calligraphy pens.... a long quill, but dental tools and a toothpick should do the trick.

also a trick I learned when re-touching negatives in college was that to point a fine brush, make sure that it is clean and use your mouth....the spit is great...wet it in your mouth and twist and pull it out....They used to use that trick to paint the numbers on watch and clock faces...needless to say...the radium paint they used caused some SERIOUS problems.....

a very often use a broken #000 saw blade to bick up paint ...the teeth hold the paint ...I understand that most people don't have them around but I have an unlimited supply....


all this talk....i want a lugged frame to paint now...LOL


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

innergel said:


> As anal as I am, I would probably make someone a good apprentice and eventually a decent painter/framebuilder.



Or you could just be a Jeweler.....


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Dave Hickey said:


> LOL, I hear ya...I used to build models a lot and I'm really into little details....



aha...a glue sniffer.........just kidding......


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Touch0Gray said:


> aha...a glue sniffer.........just kidding......



Memory loss...It has nothing to do with getting old..It's the glue...


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## innergel (Jun 14, 2002)

Touch0Gray said:


> Or you could just be a Jeweler.....


My wife would like that  But I don't wear much jewelry. Bikes on the other hand...


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

I wear a watch and a wedding band...my wife was a jeweler when I met her, she trained me...apparently that was the last think she could train me to do...I FLAT OUT RFUSE TO PUT THE SEAT DOWN.......(we have a 3 valve shower and she refuses to turn the diverter back to tub when she showers so I get wet EVERY time I turn the water on (see...not that trainable)....she turns it back...I put the seat down!

But I digress....she almost never wears jewelry, even though I have given her so PRETTY nice stuff......



Oh yeah, dave......memory problems?..........right....the glue.....in my case it had NOTHING to do with the 60's and 70's...(years not age...) What was I saying again?????


ok...that said..I need to climb on my bike on the stand and beat myself up for an hour or so....(fixed)
35 degrees, drizzling.....foggy.... not pretty gotta crank it and ride...BTW Dave, I didn't buy either saddle...I found another B-17 N on e-bay too and may get that one in brown....85 bucks cheaper than the Swift.. For now, I threw my black one on the fixed, I guess I can really only ride one at a time anyhow.....I hate being so freaking practical....


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## I am The Edge (Jul 27, 2004)

nice "work bench".

you need large toole to paint that thing for you. ship it ireland...it'll come back with 4 leaf shamrocks on it.


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## ARP (Mar 7, 2002)

*Unsure what you mean, outlining the lug?*

or just getting paint to stick? When I outlinrd my lugs on one of my old steel frames I used gold Testors enamel. The technique I used if I recall was to mask the top of the lug, paint the edge with an artist brush and use a Qtip with thinner on it to erase the excess. Probably a better way to do it is mask off the whole area using a flexible masking tape sold at an Auto paint store.

Now if it is just getting paint to stick, might try some bulldog paint adhesive.


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## innergel (Jun 14, 2002)

*Next update*

The toothpick idea worked perfectly. I actually shaved the toothpick down to a very sharp point and used a VERY SMALL amount of paint in the cutouts. The sharp toothpick was able to move that paint around and into those tight corners like a champ. I did two lugs, let the frame sit level as the paint dried for a while, and then I did the next two. I have four more lugs to fill on the headtube and then the paint will be complete.

My next question is should I shoot the whole thing with clearcoat? I kind of like the semi-gloss look of the paint and don't really want to mess with it. But if it will add some more protection, then I'll do it. 

The guys at my lbs are anxious to see it too. They asked me about it Sat afternoon and said they were ready to press the headset and install the BB for me. 

Thanks again for the toothpick idea. You guys rule. Maybe one day it will be built up. I'm getting very anxious to get it built up and rolling.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

cool, glad it worked....I keep a little poly bag in my toolbox with toothpicks in it at all times....they are good for all kinds of things....if you split them like a fountain pen quill, the hold liquid as well
I Imagine the using acrylic helped immensely too....(did you?.) as for the clearcoat thing....Dave's actually done this so...LOL..I will defer to his expertise.


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## innergel (Jun 14, 2002)

Touch0Gray said:


> I Imagine the using acrylic helped immensely too....(did you?.) as for the clearcoat thing....Dave's actually done this so...LOL..I will defer to his expertise.


I have no idea on the acrylic paint. The stuff I bought is simply called Metal Paint. I bought it at Michael's, one of those craft stores. It was like $2 for 2oz. It looks good, but takes FOREVER to dry. Can you say _heat lamp_.

Now I need some sort of elaborate rack to hold the frame in all kinds of wacky angles. Painting in the nooks and crannies of a bike frame requires some odd contortions. 

And dang, I'm getting old. Looking at some of those details close up were pretty blurry.


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## ARP (Mar 7, 2002)

*How i painted my frame*



innergel said:


> I have no idea on the acrylic paint. The stuff I bought is simply called Metal Paint. I bought it at Michael's, one of those craft stores. It was like $2 for 2oz. It looks good, but takes FOREVER to dry. Can you say _heat lamp_.
> 
> Now I need some sort of elaborate rack to hold the frame in all kinds of wacky angles. Painting in the nooks and crannies of a bike frame requires some odd contortions.
> 
> And dang, I'm getting old. Looking at some of those details close up were pretty blurry.


I masked off the repair stand and the bike's original seatpost was an internal expanding seat post, like a quill stem. I put the post in and tightened down, put the frame in the repair stand and rotated it to the proper painting angles needed. I'm waiting on decals to finish the clear coat job, if I ever get them. The guy I'm working with on the project (co worker, free material and labor) is slow at moving on these things.

As for clear coat, yes it will give you some protection but mainly it will give your base coat depth of color, real eye candy. I use the Upol #1 stuff, $20 a can, very easy to use and works great. Just make sure it is compatable with the paint you put on the frame!


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

innergel said:


> And dang, I'm getting old. Looking at some of those details close up were pretty blurry.



I used a B&L optivisor for a while then broke down and bought myself a set of surgical loupes , only 3x BUT we are talking superb lenses...color perfect... granted I make my living doing detail work...but they are way cool.


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## innergel (Jun 14, 2002)

*Finally - pics*

Here you go. It looks pretty good, esp. if the light is dark and you squint a little. Don't look too close  The white is blooming a little and I can't get the lug detail too crisp, but you can sort of see them in a few pics. They stand out OK in the original pics at the top.

Clear coat coming up in the next week or two. I want the paint to fully cure before I shoot that on.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

That looks fantastic......The lugs turned out great


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

if you are going to clearcoat it, I recommend putting a big scratch on it first and coating over it, that way you won't be so ticked when it gets it's first scratch! Kidding ...looks terrific!


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## innergel (Jun 14, 2002)

Thanks guys. I'm pretty happy with it. Can't wait to build her up and take the first ride. 

ToG, I specifically said "don't look too close" in my last post. There are plenty of scratches already in there that I can clearcoat over.  All in all, not to bad for a hack painter though. 

Dave, I haven't forgotten about our ride with Jeff. I will have to be after the new year though. If you bring your Soma, I'll bring this one. I'm sure there are a few other N.Texas fixies we can round up to join in.


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## innergel (Jun 14, 2002)

The wheels arrived so I mounted the tires, cog and lockring. Mavic CXP22 laced 3X to 32 hole Formula hubs. All silver. Maxxis Detonator tires, Surly cog, DA lockring. They are looking very spiffy.

Clearcoat coming this weekend, pending the rain situation. Stay tuned.


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## treebound (Oct 16, 2003)

*Looking great*

That frame is looking very good, glad you're putting it to some use.
I can't access the site here anymore during the day, and other work stuff keeps me occupied in other hours, but glad I checked back in and found your progress.
Looking forward to seeing pics of the bike fully built.

Mike (aka: Treebound) in Wisconsin
(with an unusally warm winter so far up here, got no idea why I'm not out riding)
((probably 'cause I'm not on the site here much lately getting motivated))


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