# Best way to increase overall MPH average..



## fastfed (Jan 13, 2011)

Now its really finally happening.. I never cared about MPH.. all I cared about was my HR, making sure I was doing 65-70% MHR..

Now that I got the roadbike (GULP) I'd like to increase my MPH average..

On my MTB it was like 10MPH, lol

Now with the road bike I am about 14-16.. It seems to be that speed for either a 10 mile run or 30 mile run..

But what are some tools and tricks to this sport to increase MPH.. 
One thing I read up on, down here in FL I was under the impression that its a road bikers dream, being there are ZERO hills.. But many say the wind down here is a major challenge.. 15mph steady wind or higher in my face doesn't help..


Currently I'm doing anywhere from 8-13 miles during the week.. at least 4x a week and then on either Sat or Sun, I do 25+ miles..

Is there some routine to increase both distance and average MPH? 

For example, if I want to increase my distance, should I train at a lower speed say 12mph vs 15mph?

and for average MPH should I lower my distance and increase my speed?

I'm clueless.. THANKS!!


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## scryan (Jan 24, 2011)

The best way to increase your avg mph is to go down hill.


Not to sound mean, but you just got a road bike... for now the best way is to just ride it.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

scryan said:


> Not to sound mean, but you just got a road bike... for now the best way is to just ride it.



^^^^^
This

Don't over think it....ride lots.......


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## latman (Apr 24, 2004)

pedal harder?


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## Gimme Shoulder (Feb 10, 2004)

Unfortunately, there's no magic bullet. Assuming your fit is correct, the only way is to ride allot and develop core strength. There are techniques that will improve your speed, but without putting in the base miles, they don't mean much.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

Ride really hard (95% max HR) - recover - repeat.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Add a 2nd magnet to the front wheel 

In reality...Riding lots and adding in *intervals*. The basic saying is "If you never ride at 25 mph, you will never ride at 25 mph" (add in any speed you want there).


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## backinthesaddle (Nov 22, 2006)

Ride more...


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## kreyszig666 (Jan 6, 2010)

fastfed said:


> all I cared about was my HR, making sure I was doing 65-70% MHR..


ride harder. 70% is taking it pretty easy. intervals over 90% will help.. but HR isn't everything. Power tells you a bit more.. since I've had my powertap I've been amazed how much my power output goes up, even when I'm _trying_ to take it easier, on an uphill. 
So I would say try and get a few more hills in and treat them as intervals. I recommend this as its relatively harder to force yourself to output more power on the flat than on a hill where it just seems to happen.


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## Cbookman (Jul 2, 2009)

Find someone faster to ride with. I went from an abysmal 20 mile avg of 15-16mph, to being near 20mph at the end of the season last year, which ended in August for me due to injuries. It had to do (slightly) with the 1800 miles I put on from april to the end of july though.


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## fastfed (Jan 13, 2011)

kreyszig666 said:


> ride harder. 70% is taking it pretty easy. intervals over 90% will help.. but HR isn't everything. Power tells you a bit more.. since I've had my powertap I've been amazed how much my power output goes up, even when I'm _trying_ to take it easier, on an uphill.
> So I would say try and get a few more hills in and treat them as intervals. I recommend this as its relatively harder to force yourself to output more power on the flat than on a hill where it just seems to happen.



Well yea, 65-70% is ideal for burning fat.. I've ridden for many years.. I would say to the point of being serious.. But it was all for just getting and staying fit.. 

But now I want to be better at the actual sport..


I'm not sure if just "riding more" is the answer.. 

As I said, I ride everyday, adding the RB allowed me to gain about 4-5mph without any real change in HR or effort..

So if I ride everyday just doing the typical 12 miles and 25-30 on sat or sun, with an average speed of 15mph, you guys really think that will allow me to add more speed??

I was thinking there would be some training exercise..

kinda like 

Monday=13 miles at 15mph
Tuesday=15 miles at 14mph
Wed=Off/rest
Thur=6 miles at max speed
Friday=10 miles at 17mph
Sat=6 miles at max speed
Sun=my long ride, 30 miles at whatever my friend and I can do comfortably 


Something like that?

I mean if I want to get stronger at bench, I increase weight each week (or so lol)

If I want more reps of a certain weight, I try and do negatives..


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## kreyszig666 (Jan 6, 2010)

fastfed said:


> Well yea, 65-70% is ideal for burning fat.. I've ridden for many years.. I would say to the point of being serious.. But it was all for just getting and staying fit..
> 
> But now I want to be better at the actual sport..
> 
> ...


i've read that the ideal fat burning range is where you say it is. i think that's more applicable in the context of longer rides.
If you are doing a 13 mile ride, you can push it a bit harder. You will still burn fat, you are using more energy (per mile). I'm no expert myself but naturally (i.e before I read any theory) seem to ride a distance of 10miles at about 90-95% of my max HR. 
That's not ideal- I will have to back off due to lactate buildup in my thighs, but the amount of time I can go without having to back off has lengthened. 
In case you have missed it, interval training is going hard out for x minutes and then backing off to recover, then going again. 
For short distances (<20miles) you can just go hard. For longer rides, go with the 70%ish HR thing, As far as weekly training plans go, let your body tell you if you need to slow down.


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## [email protected] (Aug 11, 2008)

On your rides throughout the week, break that ride into interval segments. Do 1 min give it all you got followed by 4 minutes at a relaxed pace. As you get stronger increase your interval and decrease your rest interval.


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## fastfed (Jan 13, 2011)

kreyszig666 said:


> i've read that the ideal fat burning range is where you say it is. i think that's more applicable in the context of longer rides.
> If you are doing a 13 mile ride, you can push it a bit harder. You will still burn fat, you are using more energy (per mile). I'm no expert myself but naturally (i.e before I read any theory) seem to ride a distance of 10miles at about 90-95% of my max HR.
> That's not ideal- I will have to back off due to lactate buildup in my thighs, but the amount of time I can go without having to back off has lengthened.
> In case you have missed it, interval training is going hard out for x minutes and then backing off to recover, then going again.
> For short distances (<20miles) you can just go hard. For longer rides, go with the 70%ish HR thing, As far as weekly training plans go, let your body tell you if you need to slow down.



The guide is, based on body builders and some research I've read up on..

65-70% MHR for a duration of 45-60 min. for max fat burning, any more than that, you will still burn calories and of course burn fat, but your body tends to use muscle building nutrients and proteins for fuel rather than fat stores.. This is of course if you do this first thing in the morning with nothing in your system (no breakfast) I've lose a good 15lbs of fat this way and keeping most of my muscle (which is said to be almost impossible, lose fat AND gain muscle)

Now a days, I'm a different bread and a fatty, lol, I've lost most if not all of my muscle and only care about losing this horrible fat.. But that's another story, I'm 31 and at this point loving this sport, so I'm not following a strict regiment when it comes to cycling.. I just want to ride and ride


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## fastfed (Jan 13, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> On your rides throughout the week, break that ride into interval segments. Do 1 min give it all you got followed by 4 minutes at a relaxed pace. As you get stronger increase your interval and decrease your rest interval.



Cool, that sounds good.. I'm always afraid of building so much lactic acid in my legs that I will poop out.. even on my recovery rides (after my long(er) ride on the weekend) I like to do at least an hour or so of riding.. I'm afraid I will be 6 or so miles from home, go all out for a minute then not be able to pedal anymore, lol.. I've never really tried it, but it sounds like a plan.. I'll give it a go.. Thanks


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## scryan (Jan 24, 2011)

fastfed said:


> Well yea, 65-70% is ideal for burning fat.. I've ridden for many years.. I would say to the point of being serious.. But it was all for just getting and staying fit..
> 
> But now I want to be better at the actual sport..
> 
> ...


I am no fitness genius... and definitely no bike expert....
I have always been a reasonable weight, up until recently if anything I was under weight.
As a result I NEVER worried about health or fitness. I did almost no physical activity and eat mostly junkfood (I am a very picky eater, which doesn't help because bacon cheese burgers and pizza tastes better then most food).

Got into riding last july, just to get around campus. My buddy is a road biker and got me into road bikes. I like them because they are nimble and quick, and still didn't care about fitness. It has since been secondary, not the goal just something I need to bike well.

Just a little background, since I know how it feels to be new and want to get better.
I do about a 30 mile ride every sunday, and bike to school (only a mile or two, but steady uphill the whole way).
Moral of the story:
Last weeks ride we averaged just under 18mph avg over about 23 miles.
The only thing I have ever done is ride as much as possible, as hard as possible.
Seems to be working, so I say do that.

All the training tricks and routines out there may be helpful... but its like trying to rev match while down shifting into a corner in a 500hp car the day after your driving test.
Build up a base of physical strength, endurance and comfort... Worry about the fine tuning and tweaking when that is all that is level to gain.


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## [email protected] (Aug 11, 2008)

If one minute is not in your cards yet, do 30-45 seconds. When you can do 1 min intervals with a 1 minute rest intervals for 15 sets, i guarentee your mph average will be at least 18 mph. Of course this is your long term conditioning goal. Not easy and definitely in line with Velo Rule 5.


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## AlexCad5 (Jan 2, 2005)

Ride at a pace that is at the max you can hold for the distance of the ride. With experience, you will find that pace. That is the point right before you go anaerobic. That is the pace you can ride for 12 or 60 miles. If you take the pace above that, your muscles will create more lactic acid than they can expel. You will recognize this pace by the build up of lactic when you exceed it, and you will feel a burning sensation in your legs. By exceeding your lactic threshold, you will work on raising your threshold.

That is how you know how fast you should ride. Whatever that speed is, that is the speed you should ride. When you ride at your threshold, your threshold will ride and your speed will go up.


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## theBreeze (Jan 7, 2002)

Why are you training like a body builder if you want to ride a bike faster?? 

Quite frankly a 13 mile ride is almost a waste of time.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

fastfed said:


> .. I'm always afraid of building so much lactic acid in my legs that I will poop out.. even on my recovery rides (after my long(er) ride on the weekend) I like to do at least an hour or so of riding.. I'm afraid I will be 6 or so miles from home, go all out for a minute then not be able to pedal anymore, Thanks


That won't happen. Just ride hard, and you'll get faster. Stop thinking about numbers so much.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

latman said:


> pedal harder?


What's absolutely guaranteed to work is to push harder and do it more often.


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## SlurpeeKing (Jul 23, 2010)

JCavilia said:


> That won't happen. Just ride hard, and you'll get faster. Stop thinking about numbers so much.


This is the truth and stop with all the over analyzing of EVERYTHING.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

theBreeze said:


> Quite frankly a 13 mile ride is almost a waste of time.


Oh really? Normally I'd agree but Google Tabata Intervals. Done properly you won't last 24 minutes and that includes 10 minutes warmup and 10 minutes cooldown.


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## SlurpeeKing (Jul 23, 2010)

Mike T. said:


> Oh really? Normally I'd agree but Google Tabata Intervals. Done properly you won't last 24 minutes and that includes 10 minutes warmup and 10 minutes cooldown.


For real, I did it a couple times in early january and it kicked my ass. Going to start again this week.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

SlurpeeKing said:


> For real, I did it a couple times in early january and it kicked my ass. Going to start again this week.


It's too early in the year for me to mess around with that but I read about it two weeks ago and I did a set on my rollers (with wind resistance) and I think I crapped out at 5 reps. From what I read in one of the many articles, Olympic athletes don't last past 8 reps.


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## SlurpeeKing (Jul 23, 2010)

Mike T. said:


> It's too early in the year for me to mess around with that but I read about it two weeks ago and I did a set on my rollers (with wind resistance) and I think I crapped out at 5 reps. From what I read in one of the many articles, Olympic athletes don't last past 8 reps.


I couldn't do a minute, ,so i did 30 seconds and 3 sets and was done. It was brutal.


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

Cbookman said:


> Find someone faster to ride with. I went from an abysmal 20 mile avg of 15-16mph, to being near 20mph at the end of the season last year, which ended in August for me due to injuries. It had to do (slightly) with the 1800 miles I put on from april to the end of july though.


This.


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

If you're new to cycling try riding slowish (60-70%) for as much distance as you can for like a month then google intervals and start doing them.

You've alluded to resistance to riding more, going over 70% and also have fear of getting tired. Getting faster is going to be a real challenge if not impossible with your current mind set.

Pick up a book or use google too.


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## SlowMover (Jun 6, 2010)

Riding long and slow teaches your body to ride.....long and slow. In all seriousness though, your hard days should be hard enough that at some point they are not the highlight of your week....unless you are a sicko You will begin to love the pain, but suffice to say if your goal is to get faster you have to go to the pain cave at least 2x a week. Early on I would guess you won't be looking forward to your interval days, but after you see the results you will begin to love it. 

I spend 8 weeks doing really boring and lame low intensity mileage and as a matter of fact I'm starting week 5 today. Almost ready to start the uglies. I only do 1 long ride every other weekend in season. It's a time for my body to heal a bit after the season, but also gets my aerobic engine primed for barf sessions!


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## gearguywb (Dec 26, 2006)

Intensity is your friend....well it will be if you truly want to go faster.


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## Tommy Walker (Aug 14, 2009)

scryan said:


> The best way to increase your avg mph is to go down hill.
> .


You can also put a second magnet on your wheel on the opposite side of where your first one is, then you should go twice as fast.

DISCLAIMER: Stole that from a similar thread.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Tommy Walker said:


> You can also put a second magnet on your wheel on the opposite side of where your first one is, then you should go twice as fast.
> DISCLAIMER: Stole that from a similar thread.


I only want to go 1.5x faster than I now do so if I put that 2nd magnet 90 degrees away instead of 180 will I get that effect?


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*Position*



fastfed said:


> Now its really finally happening.. I never cared about MPH.. all I cared about was my HR, making sure I was doing 65-70% MHR..
> 
> Now that I got the roadbike (GULP) I'd like to increase my MPH average..
> 
> ...


1)BIKE POSITION, i.e your seat. Adjustments to your sadlle can yield some cool results. Moving the saddle .5 cm forward as an example, NOT that it would work for you, but as an example. Seat heigth, and then your position on the bike itself

2)Steady state intervals. Intervals that you choose a rpm to hit and do not deviate no matter how much the pain says no.


Hope the above helps and then, oh yeah, ride alot


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## theBreeze (Jan 7, 2002)

Yeah, yeah, I know all about Tabata. Sure, they're tough, but what are they training you for? "I can now do really hard intervals for 30 minutes" 

Never seen a bike race like that.

Look, I've got no problem with wanting to do interesting and new exercise stuff. I've been in the fitness industry as an instructor and personal trainer for 15 years. Love to try new things too. I just started Russian hard-style kettlebell training for grins and giggles. But I don't have any illusions that it's going to make me faster on my bike.

If you have a goal, focus on that goal. What I'm saying is that if he wants to really be a cyclist he's got to do more than a 45 minute ride.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

For a lot of new riders, simply having the bike fitted, getting good shoes and clipless pedals, as well as riding at a higher cadence will all allow for some good instant speed. It's not that these make you faster, but a lack of these will generally slow you down significantly. 

Riding more will also help.

With regards to actual athletic training, there are lots of debates, but a solid plan can really help.


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## Bob Ross (Apr 18, 2006)

Don't start your odometer until you get far away from civilization.

I stopped caring about average speed when I realized that, living in Manhattan (NYC) I would have to _drive_ my bike to Westchester or Rockland counties if I wanted my odometer to reflect anything vaguely commensurate with the bulk of my actual ride. 

I've done epic fast 7 hour rides in the suburban boondocks only to watch the average speed reading decrease by 4 or 5mph during the last 20 minutes of the ride, just dealing with traffic in the last few miles to home. The end result becomes totally pointless.


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## Bob Ross (Apr 18, 2006)

scryan said:


> The best way to increase your avg mph is to go down hill.



Whenever I go to Tucson AZ (which I try to do at least once a year) I like to ride up to the top of Mt Lemmon -- which is a ~20 mile climb -- then reset the Average Speed on my cyclometer before turning around & descending. It's a cheap thrill (like when you would drop acid and then whip a burning incense stick around to create tracers), but it's still fun to see a 20 mile ride with an average speed of >35mph!


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## Jim311 (Sep 18, 2009)

As a fellow Floridian I think that average seems pretty slow unless you're dealing with wind. I like to try and average 18 or 19 on a fast shorter ride, or maybe 17 or 18 on a longer distance ride, say 35 miles or so. But I'm a singlespeeder so I'm limited sometimes, especially on hill climbs or in windy conditions. In fact, I just don't ride at all if it's windy, I hate riding in the wind.


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## fastfed (Jan 13, 2011)

Jim311 said:


> As a fellow Floridian I think that average seems pretty slow unless you're dealing with wind. I like to try and average 18 or 19 on a fast shorter ride, or maybe 17 or 18 on a longer distance ride, say 35 miles or so. But I'm a singlespeeder so I'm limited sometimes, especially on hill climbs or in windy conditions. In fact, I just don't ride at all if it's windy, I hate riding in the wind.



What hills are you talking about?? The dumps??


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## Goodbarsix (Aug 5, 2009)

I found that once I mastered my cadence, my average MPH naturally went up. Do you have a cadence display on your bike computer? I learned that some folks think it is good to have your cadence between 95 and 105 rpm. I spent the next two weeks concentrating on keeping my cadence around that, and found that I felt silly spinning 105rpm at 14mph. In another few weeks, my average was naturally faster, and my legs felt much better after a ride.

One other thing I found that helped, was either riding alone or with folks that actually wanted to push the pace. The usual group I ride with is great, but I never expect to average more then 14mph on a ride with them regardless of the length of ride. One or two of the folks from that group can really kick up the pace for distances. If I want to try and improve my average, I either ride with those two folks that like to ride fast, or ride by myself and set a goal MPH that I should stay around.

As I got faster, I set higher MPH goals for longer rides. My fastest century ride I did at a little over 17mph average, and it was _windy_ for the last 30 miles. My fastest ride of one of my favorite flat routes I averaged 19mph for 33 some odd miles (see attached). My goal for this year is to hit that at 20mph average. 

Folks will tell you to not worry about numbers early on, and just ride. While this is true, some of us like numbers to help get us motivated to work harder.

Anyhow, I digress as I rambled on.

Prost


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## fastfed (Jan 13, 2011)

sweet!! My current cycle computer (my phone) has cadence but its not out yet.. Apparently its coming soon though.. Right now I just count how many times my knee comes up in 6 seconds and times it by 10..

Honestly my RPM is maybe 60-70.. I never thought to increase it till now..


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## Goodbarsix (Aug 5, 2009)

fastfed said:


> sweet!! My current cycle computer (my phone) has cadence but its not out yet.. Apparently its coming soon though.. Right now I just count how many times my knee comes up in 6 seconds and times it by 10..
> 
> Honestly my RPM is maybe 60-70.. I never thought to increase it till now..


I hate bringing him up as he is so controversial, but watch some Youtube videos of Lance Armstrong. He is known for having a nice high cadence riding style, and obviously was/is a good rider regardless of what some people say. 

When I first started riding road bike, I was also in the 70rpm range. Riding 95-105rpm felt really awkward at first as I was trying to do it in the same gear that I was spinning 70rpm which was hard for my not-so-strong legs at the time. Don't be afraid to be in the 34/39 front chain ring. I cannot tell you how many times I have passed someone pushing hard on the 50/53 front chainring hard when I am spinning my 34/39 at a good cadence.

I purchased my cycle computer with cadence from a rip-off shop in town for $60 (see the picture above for what it looks like). The only thing I would change if I had the dough would be to go wireless. 

Prost


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I'm not against using a phone to track that sort of stuff, but remember that your phone can be your lifeline. I don't run anything that can drain the battery faster than having it on.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

fastfed said:


> Well yea, 65-70% is ideal for burning fat.. I've ridden for many years.. I would say to the point of being serious.. But it was all for just getting and staying fit..


That's a popular myth.

Although a higher percentage of calories burned come from fat at low intensities you can burn as much or more fat at higher levels.

You could ride for half an hour at 65% of VO2 max burning 220 calories of which 110 are fat, or 85% of VO2 max (not out of line with the power you can sustain for a full hour with some training at 90% of your maximum heart rate) burning 320 calories of which 110 are fat and 210 are carbohydrates. 

Following the exercise you have elevated oxygen and caloric consumption for longer with the high intensity work out. One study showed .3 hours cycling at 29% of VO2 max, 3.3 hours at 50% of VO2 max, and 10.5 hours at 75% of VO2 max.

Longer term the harder rides will do more to increase your lactate threshold and amount of energy your body can get from fat so both total and fat calories will increase with time.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*Actually, there is no specific answer*






Check out the video, the deal is it Eddy Merckx, warming up and the film is not eduited for speed.

Every persons physiology will respond differently, some folks will mash, others will spin. It is just the way it works, and you cant promise anything until you get on the bike and see what works for you individually


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## SKIBUMM (Feb 26, 2010)

Ride with faster people and you will get faster or be dropped. Dont worry about being dropped at first hang as long as you can. My first year on my bike I never once saw the front of the pack and felt like I was giving it all I had. Over time I got better at spinning (increased my cadence) and I got stronger. Last year I was in front most of the time until it became hill time and then I dropeed back. Guess what I am working on this year? I will never be a good hill guy as I am too big 185lbs and have no ass to speak of but I can and will get better. By the end of the year I was not last up the hills and this year my gola is to be middle of the pack. I know I can catch up on the decent and the flats.


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## viciouscycle (Aug 22, 2009)

Bob Ross said:


> Whenever I go to Tucson AZ (which I try to do at least once a year) I like to ride up to the top of Mt Lemmon -- which is a ~20 mile climb -- then reset the Average Speed on my cyclometer before turning around & descending. It's a cheap thrill (like when you would drop acid and then whip a burning incense stick around to create tracers), but it's still fun to see a 20 mile ride with an average speed of >35mph!


That's for beginners, I leave my garmin on when I drive home with the bike in the rack, I have had a 40 mile bike ride and a 15 mile ride home add up to a 60+ avg!!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## zender (Jun 20, 2009)

If you can find a group to ride with, that _would_ be a huge motivator if you can find it. If you get dropped, at least you have a goal to shoot for.

From the distances you are listing (teens mid-week and twenties on the weekend) Carmichael's Time Crunched Cyclist book seems right up your alley. Ideally, it would be with a power meter, but even with a HRM or just perceived effort (blasphemy, I know), it will give you some structure so you have a plan before each workout. Plus, it has some decent introductory stuff to why you're doing what you're doing. Structured intervals gives you gains beyond just riding around to Starbucks because they force you to go beyond what is comfortable but still with a fixed goal in mind.

It is a bit harsh to say that it's a waste of time to ride 13 miles (hey, it's never a waste of time to ride a bike IMO  ). But, I agree if you're training for 40K TT, stage racing or centuries, then 13 miles is not ideal. But, if those are the distances/times you will always ride because of other commitments or whatever, then training with those distances is still useful.

Whatever you do, I highly recommend not forgetting about the fun of cycling. So, every so often, forget to bring your Garmin/HRM//Powertap and just enjoy riding the bike (yes, I know more blasphemy)


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## fastfed (Jan 13, 2011)

spade2you said:


> I'm not against using a phone to track that sort of stuff, but remember that your phone can be your lifeline. I don't run anything that can drain the battery faster than having it on.



heheh, thats why I carry a spare battery with me.. I don't even need it, but just in case.. as you say, you never know..


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## blkwtr (Aug 5, 2010)

I find my average speed increases when I ride more on the drops and make a effort to pull up with my hands while pushing down on the pedals rather than putting weight on my hands.


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## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

Ride early in the morning before the wind picks up. I finish all my rides on Maui before 9:30 cuz the trade winds get STIFF and nothing's more frustrating that killing yourself to maintain 20mph on a flat road.

And remember, it's a race. Every second counts. Backing off anywhere hurts your average speed so if you want to make each ride a time trial imagine there's always someone on your wheel that you're trying to drop. That's the only way I can enjoy road biking. I don't know how the guys who go for leisurely rides don't get bored. I enjoy cruising on dirt cuz the terrain keeps me entertained but on the road I need to go flat out the whole time.


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## asad137 (Jul 29, 2009)

fastfed said:


> 65-70% MHR for a duration of 45-60 min. for max fat burning, any more than that, you will still burn calories and of course burn fat, but your body tends to use muscle building nutrients and proteins for fuel rather than fat stores..


Your body will use liver and muscle glycogen stores before actually using muscle for fuel.

And remember that 65-70% MHR is ideal for burning the maximum _proportion_ of calories from fat. At higher intensities, you will still burn *more* fat than at 65-70%, but it'll be a lower fraction of the total amount of calories used.

Put another way, if you go out and ride for an hour at 65-70% vs. 80-90%, you'll use more fat in the latter case because you're using more calories total.

Asad


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*uhhhh no*



asad137 said:


> Your body will use liver and muscle glycogen stores before actually using muscle for fuel.
> 
> And remember that 65-70% MHR is ideal for burning the maximum _proportion_ of calories from fat. At higher intensities, you will still burn *more* fat than at 65-70%, but it'll be a lower fraction of the total amount of calories used.
> 
> ...


The best trained endurance athletes on the planet cant get those types of fat burning for energy.

You cant choose which day to burn fat. You can train your body and ingest fewer cals, but as to what day you burn fat or not and how much of that is for energy use; fraid not. You have to be rather freakishly in shape to where you get to that point.

http://courses.ucsd.edu/rhampton/bibc102/addn_reading/fat_burners.pdf
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/sports-nutrition-should-athletes-use-fat-or-carbohydrate-as-fuel-631


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

Ride lots, lose weight, ride with faster cyclists.


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## fastfed (Jan 13, 2011)

Well... I felt like crap all day, finally at 4pm, I decided to get ready.. I'm sure many are like me.. Motivation doesn't come till you actually get on the bike..

In anycase, I downed a cup of black coffee and a tum 

Got on the bike and started to ride.. About mile 6 or 7, I just felt like complete **** and for the first time in a while I stopped riding and walked a little, probably about 5 minutes or so.. Then I was able to get back into it a little but just to get back to my house.. 12 miles and as I was rounding my block to my house, I decided to turn around and go nuts... I was on a major road with a speed limit of 45mph and I swear I was passing cars.. Ok a bus, but still.. lol.


I did about 3 super speed laps, about 3/4 miles each. I felt great!

I had my tires pumped to about 130psi from a few days ago and I think some of the pressure went down, maybe 110psi now and honestly the bike felt better than ever.. No ass soreness at all and my back feels great.. Getting used to this position I thought would take a while but I think I got it..

My hands still feel weird and hurt sometimes.. I try all different hand positions, but I like when I go WOT (wide open throttle  ) I put my hands on the drop downs and fly like the wind!

I think for now on I will set a goal for myself.. During my weekly rides I do anywhere from 10-15 miles, I think when I finish I will go back out and do 3 more miles super fast..


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## SlurpeeKing (Jul 23, 2010)

Congrats, you figured it all out in 1 day. Pretty Amazing!!! You're a natural bud


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## SlurpeeKing (Jul 23, 2010)

Question for those that keep saying ride with faster cyclists. Lets say Fastfed and I go on a ride but can only sustain an avg of 16-17 mph and the group is at 20 mph, won't we just get left behind? Or do some riders stay back to keep the slower guys moving at a faster pace? There's obviously a million group rides every weekend in S. FL, but the main hang up is the speed these guys post are intimidating for beginners.


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## fastfed (Jan 13, 2011)

SlurpeeKing said:


> Question for those that keep saying ride with faster cyclists. Lets say Fastfed and I go on a ride but can only sustain an avg of 16-17 mph and the group is at 20 mph, won't we just get left behind? Or do some riders stay back to keep the slower guys moving at a faster pace? There's obviously a million group rides every weekend in S. FL, but the main hang up is the speed these guys post are intimidating to beginners.



I thought we figured out that the group would get mad at us?? They would flat out leave us as they're not going to hurt themselves just because we decided to go ride with them..

I wouldn't mind though.. I would try any press myself for as long as possible.. and if I made it 30 miles out of a 50 mile ride and stopped.. Its better than not doing it at all..


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## zender (Jun 20, 2009)

SlurpeeKing said:


> Question for those that keep saying ride with faster cyclists. Lets say Fastfed and I go on a ride but can only sustain an avg of 16-17 mph and the group is at 20 mph, won't we just get left behind? Or do some riders stay back to keep the slower guys moving at a faster pace? There's obviously a million group rides every weekend in S. FL, but the main hang up is the speed these guys post are intimidating for beginners.



Couple of things
- If you're riding in a large-ish low-key group, in a relatively flat course and they are reasonably cool (a lot of "ifs" I know), you can just hang back in the last third of the pack and go 20mph with about 15mph of effort on your part. If you've never ridden in a large group, there are some general common-sense rules to follow. Ride straight, don't do anything silly. 

- If the course is hilly and/or the group likes to surge a lot, or rides 24mph not 20, you will likely get dropped. But, that's OK, it just means you need a more casual group or train more. Some larger clubs have a 'B' ride or a 'no drop' ride where they regroup at specific landmarks. Look for that.


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## lemonlime (Sep 24, 2003)

fastfed said:


> I thought we figured out that the group would get mad at us?? They would flat out leave us as they're not going to hurt themselves just because we decided to go ride with them..
> 
> I wouldn't mind though.. I would try any press myself for as long as possible.. and if I made it 30 miles out of a 50 mile ride and stopped.. Its better than not doing it at all..


There are all different types of groups. Some are hammerheads and you'll get dropped in a "I hope you know your way home" sort of way. Others do sustained periods of higher speeds but then regroup for a few minutes and then carry on. The type of ride it is will be announced before you ever leave the starting point.

I love your enthusiasm for this! It reminds me why I love the sport so much too, something I sometimes forget when I'm focusing more on a weekly mileage goal or deep into an interval session.

My advice: don't over think it; it's a bike. Turn the pedals harder for a longer period of time and your ave mph will go up - simple as that. Don't be afraid of a little suffering, it's good for you and the only way to get faster.

For now, enjoy that new Jamis and ride whenever you can/feel like it. Just ride. Long, short, groups, solo...turn those pedals. When you find yourself near the front of a group and feeling good, then start thinking about really training. Until then, IMO, you nuking all this stuff out is adding more mental stress than you need.


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## hfc (Jan 24, 2003)

As many others have said, ride lots, ride with faster people than you. Look forward to getting faster over months and years rather than days/weeks. As the miles add up over years, you'll get stronger. It's one of the reasons you'll often see old, gnarly guys kicking butt on much younger riders.


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## lemonlime (Sep 24, 2003)

hfc said:


> As many others have said, ride lots, ride with faster people than you. *Look forward to getting faster over months and years rather than days/weeks*. As the miles add up over years, you'll get stronger. It's one of the reasons you'll often see old, gnarly guys kicking butt on much younger riders.


This is your plan, is it?


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## fastfed (Jan 13, 2011)

zender said:


> Couple of things
> - If you're riding in a large-ish low-key group, in a relatively flat course and they are reasonably cool (a lot of "ifs" I know), you can just hang back in the last third of the pack and go 20mph with about 15mph of effort on your part. If you've never ridden in a large group, there are some general common-sense rules to follow. Ride straight, don't do anything silly.
> 
> - If the course is hilly and/or the group likes to surge a lot, or rides 24mph not 20, you will likely get dropped. But, that's OK, it just means you need a more casual group or train more. Some larger clubs have a 'B' ride or a 'no drop' ride where they regroup at specific landmarks. Look for that.



Drafting is really that extreme?? Say there are 20 guys.. and I stay behind them, but pretty close.. Are they really cutting the wind that much?


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## lemonlime (Sep 24, 2003)

fastfed said:


> Drafting is really that extreme?? Say there are 20 guys.. and I stay behind them, but pretty close.. Are they really cutting the wind that much?


The leader does 30% more work. So yeah, 20mph in a pack is pretty easy, unless you're the guy pulling.


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## snosaw (May 30, 2006)

I vote for pushing your lungs. Skip the percentages. I'm lucky, I live in the hills of Colorado so climbing something is not too difficult to find. I backcountry ski nearly every day through the winter (part of my job), so my lungs stay well ventilated. Come Spring, I find the legs and it all works out.
The bottom line is you need to log miles, lots. Speed comes after you increase your lungs. Oh, and I can't believe I'm suggesting this but stick to wine instead of beer.


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## dysfunction (Apr 2, 2010)

lemonlime said:


> The leader does 30% more work. So yeah, 20mph in a pack is pretty easy, unless you're the guy pulling.


... and you find this out abruptly as you move forward and suddenly it's your turn to pull the first time. 

Seriously though, most of the group rides around here are posted into groups.. A/B+/B/C/D etc.. these correspond to average speeds for the ride. Much of the time they'll be posted as several options, starting from the same spot. It's pretty easy to find someone that's happy to go at a speed close to where you're at. Then, as mentioned, there's almost always regroup points. The exceptions to this are generally posted as self-sustaining or 'no sweep' rides. Don't be afraid of the group rides, they can be fun. Good ones will let you learn some paceline skills etc along the way

oh and you can find some pretty cool new routes in the process.


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## fastfed (Jan 13, 2011)

snosaw said:


> I vote for pushing your lungs. Skip the percentages. I'm lucky, I live in the hills of Colorado so climbing something is not too difficult to find. I backcountry ski nearly every day through the winter (part of my job), so my lungs stay well ventilated. Come Spring, I find the legs and it all works out.
> The bottom line is you need to log miles, lots. Speed comes after you increase your lungs. Oh, and I can't believe I'm suggesting this but stick to wine instead of beer.



heheh Thanks.. I don't drink at all though.. I know, I need to get off the forums and get out more


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## fastfed (Jan 13, 2011)

dysfunction
oh and you can find some pretty cool new routes in the process.[/QUOTE said:


> Yea this is what I'm excited about..


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## Waxbytes (Sep 22, 2004)

Go metric, 19 - 22 KMH seems way faster that 12 - 14 MPH.


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## Impulse282 (Feb 15, 2011)

you just have to ride hard and push yourself...if you dont you wont get faster..when i first started riding few months back i was avg 14-16mph...now i avg 21+..and i do it on an old vintage schwinn too...so just keep riding and you'll get faster.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*no*



Impulse282 said:


> you just have to ride hard and push yourself...if you dont you wont get faster..when i first started riding few months back i was avg 14-16mph...now i avg 21+..and i do it on an old vintage schwinn too...so just keep riding and you'll get faster.


You do not go from 14-15mph and then 21 mph avearge in a few months. No, sorry, aint so.

How did you calculate this?


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## asad137 (Jul 29, 2009)

ttug said:


> The best trained endurance athletes on the planet cant get those types of fat burning for energy.
> 
> You cant choose which day to burn fat. You can train your body and ingest fewer cals, but as to what day you burn fat or not and how much of that is for energy use; fraid not. You have to be rather freakishly in shape to where you get to that point.
> 
> ...


I have no idea how anything you said has any relevance to what I said. 

This is what I was referring to:
http://scienceblogs.com/obesitypanacea/2010/06/the_myth_of_the_fat_burning_zo.php (I had the numbers a little off).

Asad


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## fastfed (Jan 13, 2011)

ttug said:


> You do not go from 14-15mph and then 21 mph avearge in a few months. No, sorry, aint so.
> 
> How did you calculate this?


Yea, that seems crazy too.. Its like the people that say they lost 25lbs of fat, and GAINED 10lbs of muscle, in a few months..

15-21mph is like a 30% increase overall average.. in just 3 months??


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*relevance*



asad137 said:


> I have no idea how anything you said has any relevance to what I said.
> 
> This is what I was referring to:
> http://scienceblogs.com/obesitypanacea/2010/06/the_myth_of_the_fat_burning_zo.php (I had the numbers a little off).
> ...



Look at the studies for Fat metabolism as it pertains to performance.

The subjects are endurance trained. The mention of a specifc untrained athlete, using a specifc HR zone to burn fat has been determined to be BS. The untrained guy or gal will be shattered by the time they get to point where fat is even being uised as an energy source. Look at that data. How many everyday guys or gals can hit the % you use AND hit the point where their body starts to use fat as an energy source during exertion? Hardly any, if at all. 

Just exercise more and eat smarter, and yes, less. You will eventually drop fat. You cant target fat today and muscle tomorrow, its all BS.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

ttug said:


> You do not go from 14-15mph and then 21 mph avearge in a few months. No, sorry, aint so.
> How did you calculate this?


I think his "findings" are probably not true ones. We know that average speeds, from some people, are pie in the sky things. I only list them when they are a massive effort over a known route. Then I can compare. A newb in their early days of riding probably isn't going to time-trial a specific route and save the data for a true comparison weeks, months or years down the road (as many of us do). They might average 14mph for their first forays and then come back months later, having learned much about pacing and general riding, with a 21mph average (if they're VERY talented). But the two can hardly be compared in a meaningful way.


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## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

ttug said:


> You do not go from 14-15mph and then 21 mph avearge in a few months. No, sorry, aint so.
> 
> How did you calculate this?


His tires wore down so his computer now reads fast
ALTHOUGH, if this is a flat course, without wind, and less than 30mi long 21mph isn't that fast. Assuming he was going 14-15mph when he started because he wasn't really pushing for speed and he's in decent shape, 21mph a few months later isn't completely unrealistic.


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## hrumpole (Jun 17, 2008)

I'm not so sure you can't improve quite a bit on a 13 mile ride. Warm up 5 min. Then 20 minutes at a pace... where.... you... can.... only... talk... like... this.... and... you're... not.... chatty.
Then cool down.

Ridden 4x per week, that's 80 minutes at around threshold--a fair amount of time in a week. Not sure that's useless. Sure, you have to ride farther on weekends and train the other systems, but I'd think you could see quite a bit of improvement that way.


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## fastfed (Jan 13, 2011)

.......


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## Impulse282 (Feb 15, 2011)

fastfed said:


> Yea, that seems crazy too.. Its like the people that say they lost 25lbs of fat, and GAINED 10lbs of muscle, in a few months..
> 
> 15-21mph is like a 30% increase overall average.. in just 3 months??


hey relax lol ... i never said 3months...iv been riding for about 6-7 months now off and on...and my cateye doesnt lie...just takes time. :thumbsup:


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## fastfed (Jan 13, 2011)

Impulse282 said:


> hey relax lol ... i never said 3months...iv been riding for about 6-7 months now off and on...and my cateye doesnt lie...just takes time. :thumbsup:



lol, I'm just messing with you.. but if you could increase that much in just 7 months, that's awesome!!


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*uh, sure*



hrumpole said:


> I'm not so sure you can't improve quite a bit on a 13 mile ride. Warm up 5 min. Then 20 minutes at a pace... where.... you... can.... only... talk... like... this.... and... you're... not.... chatty.
> Then cool down.
> 
> Ridden 4x per week, that's 80 minutes at around threshold--a fair amount of time in a week. Not sure that's useless. Sure, you have to ride farther on weekends and train the other systems, but I'd think you could see quite a bit of improvement that way.


You can, but in reference to what? A couch tator and then...yes, of course

The ammounts stated, in 7 months or 3, yah, thats BS


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*correct*



Impulse282 said:


> hey relax lol ... i never said 3months...iv been riding for about 6-7 months now off and on...and my cateye doesnt lie...just takes time. :thumbsup:


The cateye does not lie, but the ownner is wrong and the cateye is callibrated incorrectly.

Time and distance. Track it, if the cateye says 20 mph and yet, it took you over half an hour to go 8 miles.....think about that


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

I was absolutely hauling today. Still, had a 17.8 avg over 28 mostly flat miles. Pacing was between 18 and 20 for much of the ride, but there were places I had to slow or stop and that really cuts into the average speed. About half way through the storm started to come in and the winds picked up. I was pushing into a headwind for about 14mi. Sure made it tough.

Today was the fastest I've ever done that loop by about 4/10 of an mph.


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## Impulse282 (Feb 15, 2011)

fastfed said:


> .......


lol lol


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## chesbak (Feb 16, 2011)

fastfed said:


> Now its really finally happening.. I never cared about MPH.. all I cared about was my HR, making sure I was doing 65-70% MHR..
> 
> Now that I got the roadbike (GULP) I'd like to increase my MPH average..
> 
> ...


Set reachable goals and increase them every time you meet them... Start by adding 1 MPH...


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*I dont think so*



Lelandjt said:


> His tires wore down so his computer now reads fast
> ALTHOUGH, if this is a flat course, without wind, and less than 30mi long 21mph isn't that fast. Assuming he was going 14-15mph when he started because he wasn't really pushing for speed and he's in decent shape, 21mph a few months later isn't completely unrealistic.


More than likely, its the callibration, if however, he has that kind of fitness, thats great. Thats actually rather good. BUT, experience says naaaaah


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

ttug said:


> More than likely, its the callibration, if however, he has that kind of fitness, thats great. Thats actually rather good. BUT, experience says naaaaah


Nope, for the first few months he only rode on the flats. Then he had a breakthrough and now only rides downhill. 

Without getting into a structured training plan, find a group ride slightly faster than you are currently. Stick with it until you're near the front, then move on to a more challenging group. Ride as many hills as you can find, even if they're just bridges in Florida. Ride into the wind. Sprint for street signs. Pick a regular course to ride once a week or so and then ride it as a time trial to measure progress. Mix it up, and look for new places to ride.

Do not get caught up in average speed. You'll turn yourself into a 4 cylinder diesel.


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