# Anyone know about Ciocc?



## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

I am selling this frame in Japan. I have been asked a heap of questions about it and I know nothing about them? 
Really want to know if (a) the spacing that measures about 122mm, very odd. (b) approx date of manufacture. No serial numbers or such. 
Appreciate any info' 
cheers
KS


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## P3T3R (Oct 4, 2013)

I'm pretty sure CIOCC is an Italian brand and not Japanese. There's also an Italian Flag on the frame.The Brand | Ciocc


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

P3T3R said:


> I'm pretty sure CIOCC is an Italian brand and not Japanese. There's also an Italian Flag on the frame.


???



> I am selling this frame in Japan.


OP I usually try a google image search, and then follow where that leads. That is a distinctive detail where the seat stays meet the lug. That, and the decals the same as this '86 example Steel Vintage Bikes - Ciöcc Designer 84 Vintage Bicycle from 1986


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

P3T3R said:


> I'm pretty sure CIOCC is an Italian brand and not Japanese. There's also an Italian Flag on the frame.The Brand | Ciocc


Yeah, I live in Japan. thanks.



bikerjulio said:


> ???
> OP I usually try a google image search, and then follow where that leads. That is a distinctive detail where the seat stays meet the lug. That, and the decals the same as this '86 example Steel Vintage Bikes - Ciöcc Designer 84 Vintage Bicycle from 1986


I found that bike as well, actually it would be easier not to have that patterned tubing in a way but it does look pretty cool. I have googled a fair bit and been directed to old catalogs but nothing that shows up that particular model. Might need to head over to the Italian side of the interwebs. Thanks.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Very cool frame.

You can measure the entire thing yourself if you have some wheels, a laser level, a normal level, an adjustable T Square and a tape measure.

If you had the time you could make an entire accurate geometry chart for it if you had the above tools. If you're getting a lot of questions about measurements it might be worth your time to do so. Or maybe a local bike shop has the above tools and can do it for you. Our shop does and it's a service we offer. 

No idea about how to find about details on the frame's history.


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

MMsRepBike said:


> Very cool frame.
> 
> You can measure the entire thing yourself if you have some wheels, a laser level, a normal level, an adjustable T Square and a tape measure.
> 
> ...


Yeah that's true, I have measured tubes and dropout spacing and the rest I won't bother with, there are some really good apps for measuring angles available for cell phones now that make finding angles a breeze. I was more interested in tubing details and year of manufacture but thanks for the input.


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## P3T3R (Oct 4, 2013)

bikerjulio said:


> ???


Sorry. Misunderstood your post.


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## merckxman (Jan 23, 2002)

The framebuilder was Giovanni Pellizolli. He is still building frames, now under his own name now. His website is PELIZZOLI world | Today, the true Italian Craftsman of the past. . Someone does reply to English language inquiries. I think the photo of the weave top tube would be the best one for him to tell you about that frame.


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

Thanks I have sent them an email asking for some details but it was about 30 years ago. Here's hoping.


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

kiwisimon said:


> Thanks I have sent them an email asking for some details but it was about 30 years ago. Here's hoping.


That's along time to wait for an email reply...:wink5:

Rear spacing at 122 is close enough to 120 and may have been a split decision between that and 126? (6-8 speed, old skool).

The rest of the details say early to mid 80s to me--single set of WB bosses, the bottom bracket and fork crown.

There are a couple of catalogs on Mark Bulgier's site but they seem a little bit earlier based on their components:

bulgier.net - /pics/bike/Catalogs/


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

paredown said:


> That's along time to wait for an email reply...:wink5:
> 
> Rear spacing at 122 is close enough to 120 and may have been a split decision between that and 126? (6-8 speed, old skool).


Ha ha. Hey I asked a girl to go out with me 35 years ago and still haven't got an answer yet. Hysterical laughing isn't really an answer is it?
I looked at the right side rear fork and the derailler lug had been bent in. I gently pulled it back and sure enough 126mm was spot on with no torque needed on the stays. I have posted it as a latew 80's but I just can'T find another Ciocc with this tube work, might be quite unusual. My wife is happy that what we thought was junk is pushing on 360$ on the auction site here.


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

Found this one (text seems to have been lifted from an eBay auction)--identified as 1994 and Cromor tubing. The differences I can see is the extra brace between the rear stays just behind the BB (a la Colnago Super), the number hanger and the chrome on the rear stays.
















Tickling the back of my mind is the faint recollection of a Belgian Diamant (made by Ciocc or Billato) that also had that rolled pattern in the tubing...


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Pellizoli sold the company before this frame was made.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Pellizoli sold the company before this frame was made.


How can you tell? I'd be interested to know if there is a tell-tale sign, or if it just based on year of production. IIRC, Giovanni sold Ciocc in the early 80s?? I have a mid-80s Mokba coming to me in the next week or so. Would be a huge bonus if it was built by Gio Pelizzoli. Regardless, I'm sure it will be an awesome frame that I'll be tickled pink riding.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Ride-Fly said:


> IIRC, Giovanni sold Ciocc in the early 80s??


He sold Ciocc in 1980. Here's his own story in his own words:

History | PELIZZOLI world

He managed framebuilding operations at a few large companies before going back to independent framebuilding.

The first Ciocc I ever saw was at the Milk Race in 1978. The winning Polish team used them. It didn't have decals, the logos were stencilled and painted. Beautifully built but basic paintjobs. People forget that in those days Pellizoli's racing bikes were built for racers. They were ridden hard and expected to last one or two seasons at most.


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## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

Ride-Fly said:


> ...tickled pink riding.


Sorry for the hijack, but speaking of "pink" have you seen that pink/gray Colnago Master on ebay. Oh, man that is a sharp looking frame.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

rplace13 said:


> Sorry for the hijack, but speaking of "pink" have you seen that pink/gray Colnago Master on ebay. Oh, man that is a sharp looking frame.


Just checked it out. Very nice!! You gonna bid on it? There are quite a few nice steel and Ti Nags in ebay right now. The yellow and blue Tecnos, the white Oval Master, and the orange/blue/faux carbon Master X-lite are all hawt!!


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## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

Can't bid still working on the Merckx bits and pieces - but would love to have it...beautiful. Did not see the Faux Carbon Master...and I looked. Only seen one in the past, thought it was super cool.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

rplace13 said:


> Can't bid still working on the Merckx bits and pieces - but would love to have it...beautiful. Did not see the Faux Carbon Master...and I looked. Only seen one in the past, thought it was super cool.


It just ended. It seems a "best offer" was accepted. Wonder what it sold for. Anyways, here is the link: Stunning Colnago Master x Light Art Decor Frame Columbus Gilco Steel RARE | eBay 

I'm thirsty for a 7-11 Big Gulp! Hurry up and finish the Merckx will ya??? So we can read all about it!!:thumbsup:


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

Update the frame sold for about $680 here on auction, thanks for the input guys.


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