# Novatec F482SB 10 speed to 11 speed?



## tthome (May 12, 2008)

I own a set of carbon clinchers with a Novatec F482SB rear hub. I see online there is a F482SB in 11 speed and the same model like mine with 10 speed. My question. If there are both F482SB rear hub models with both 10 and 11 speeds...is it possible that all i need to do is to change the cassette body that's on my current F482SB with this one?

Replacement Shimano or Campagnolo Cassette Body Freehub for Novatec Powerway Hub | eBay

I understand that some hubs can't simply be changed to 11 speed by simply changing the cassette body however I find myself wondering if Novatec uses the same hub shell but a different cassette body for their 11 speed upgrade?

Anyone ever tried this?


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

The Novatec people actually reply fairly quickly to email. I'd email them (not the local rep but the HQ address. It's either [email protected] or [email protected] or something).


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## November Dave (Dec 7, 2011)

You're out of luck, sorry. Different hub shell. 

Those hubs are pretty inexpensive, though. Not much more than some cassette bodies (a Powertap cassette body is within $10 of a new F482 for 11 speed), but obviously you have to replace the wheel. Same spoke lengths are used with 10 or 11 speed. We've done this swap a bunch, and in fact we have one to do today (that info is for confirmation, not a solicitation - we only do it for wheels we've sold, and we've sold a lot of wheels with F482s).


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## kanekikapu (Jan 23, 2002)

I email novatec with the same question back in 2013 and was told the it wouldn't work due to different flange spacing... swapped the rear hub out and went with a BHS SL210.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

That hub always had the option to install a NOVATEC Campy (11) spd freehub. There are people who run an (11)spd Campy cassette matched to an otherwise full Shimano drive train with no worries.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

metoou2 said:


> That hub always had the option to install a NOVATEC Campy (11) spd freehub. There are people who run an (11)spd Campy cassette matched to an otherwise full Shimano drive train with no worries.


With Campy prices it's probably cheaper to buy a new hub and have the wheel rebuilt than to buy a cassette.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Campy has cassettes that are priced the same as an Ultegra 6800


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

metoou2 said:


> Campy has cassettes that are priced the same as an Ultegra 6800


The equivalent cassette is Chorus and is 3x the price of an Ultegra one on Merlin.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

I said priced the same as Ultegra, not its equivalent. Gotta pay attention to the details.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

November,
please splain somethin; this hub has the option to fit a Campy f-hub and run an 11spd Campy cassette. It is documented that the total width (maybe its called a 'stack height'???) of the Campy 11spd cassettes and the Shimano 11spd cassettes are virtually identical.
So based on these comparisons and measurements why wasn't Novatec able to produce an aftermarket Shimano 11spd f-hub that could act as a retro-fit for these hubs? Did Novatec see this as a chance to sell new hubs and simply chose to not produce this f-hub?
I can't name the exact companies but other hub manufacturers chose to produce an aftermarket Shimano 11spd f-hub.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

metoou2 said:


> I said priced the same as Ultegra, not its equivalent. Gotta pay attention to the details.


Sure. So if you want to pay the same for less performance go for it. I got a $70k Honda Civic if you're interested in that.


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## November Dave (Dec 7, 2011)

[yQUOTE=metoou2;4801938]November,
please splain somethin; this hub has the option to fit a Campy f-hub and run an 11spd Campy cassette. It is documented that the total width (maybe its called a 'stack height'???) of the Campy 11spd cassettes and the Shimano 11spd cassettes are virtually identical.
So based on these comparisons and measurements why wasn't Novatec able to produce an aftermarket Shimano 11spd f-hub that could act as a retro-fit for these hubs? Did Novatec see this as a chance to sell new hubs and simply chose to not produce this f-hub?
I can't name the exact companies but other hub manufacturers chose to produce an aftermarket Shimano 11spd f-hub.[/QUOTE]

I've no idea. Many other 10 speed hubs wound up in the same place, but we weren't brought in to the process so I can't give an answer to your question. The hub shells are different from 10 to 11 speed. I've tried many many workarounds, none of which were successful.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

deviuos, not sure why you're Trollin me.....................no big deal. You've been added to that awesome thing called an 'ignore list'.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

metoou2 said:


> deviuos, not sure why you're Trollin me.....................no big deal. You've been added to that awesome thing called an 'ignore list'.


Sweet! You popped my ignore cherry!

All I was saying was that is that if you want your wheelset to be equivalent it's cheaper to get it rebuilt than to pay for overpriced campy cassettes.


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## Mackers (Dec 29, 2009)

I actually bought one from (I believe) the same guy.










Left is the 11S, right the 8/9/10S it replaced.
It has worked just fine for a year now, on a 4-5 year old hub.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Mackers,
please explain what you are showing. Did you find someone producing and selling a f-hub that will convert the Novatec hub so that it can run an (11)speed Shimano cassette?

This could be awesome news!


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

O.K., I gotta pretty thick head. I didn't realize the OP's e-Bay link was pointing to a seller who had a f-hub that will solve the problem. I just focused in on everyone saying it couldn't be done.

So Mackers, tell us what was your experience.
Did you re-dish the wheel?
Did it shove the first cog on the cassette really close to the seat / chain stays?

If I can avoid buying a new hub and having to re-build a wheel that would simply ROCK!


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## Mackers (Dec 29, 2009)

No redish needed.

The cassette just moved 1.85 mm to the left, distance from first cog to the dropout hasn't changed. Next time I'll just machine the original body.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Many thanks Mackers.

Either Novatec got greedy and wanted to force everyone into buying a new (11)spd hub or they simply didn't like the idea of shoving the cassette closer to the spokes. And this would of course also cause the der. to move in even closer to spokes.
I just keep thinking about the Ksyriums I own. That hub was built narrow enough to allow for an 11spd Campy cassette to be fitted. And since it has the room for Campy, it also has the room for (11)spd Shimano. 

Hey OP, looks like you may have solved your problem. Please report back.

Have any of you other members used this solution???


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## tthome (May 12, 2008)

metoou2 said:


> Hey OP, looks like you may have solved your problem. Please report back.
> 
> Have any of you other members used this solution???


I'll have to wait and see when the hub comes in from the guy on ebay. If mackers has already tried it then that's what I was hoping for. I simply want to change the f'hub body. Again my thinking was since the F482SB has an 11speed and a 10 speed model that would indicate that the shell hasn't changed but rather the f'hub did. So if the 11 speed is simply shaved down 1.8mm back towards the hub and not extended longer I should be good to go!


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## November Dave (Dec 7, 2011)

The shells were changed from 10 to 11s. The cassette will be 1.8mm closer to the spokes with this cassette body. Just be careful with limit screws, as the clearance will be very exacting. 

Remember that when the F482 was developed, there was no 11 speed SRAM/Shimano - they were at least 3 years away. No one knew what the parameters would be. The F482 geometry is optimized for 10s - from a tension ratio perspective, it was one of the best 10s hubs going.


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## Bridgestone (Sep 6, 2007)

November Dave said:


> The shells were changed from 10 to 11s. The cassette will be 1.8mm closer to the spokes with this cassette body. Just be careful with limit screws, as the clearance will be very exacting.
> 
> Remember that when the F482 was developed, there was no 11 speed SRAM/Shimano - they were at least 3 years away. No one knew what the parameters would be. The F482 geometry is optimized for 10s - from a tension ratio perspective, it was one of the best 10s hubs going.


I wonder if the 162sb10,162sb11 specs on Bdop are correct as they show the geometry 38-19 for both hubs? If so O.L.D. must be different despite stated 130mm?

Hubs-ROAD


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## November Dave (Dec 7, 2011)

The spoke lengths are the same 10s to 11s. The flange to flange is the same as well as I can measure, but there's a lip outside the drive side flange that's bigger on one than the other (can't remember which offhand and it's not something that's so super intuitive that I can just pull it out of my butt). And the tension balance is less good on the 11, so they aren't exactly alike. 

There's no exact standard for flange measurement references - some go outside, some go inside, some go middle. For spoke length purposes, the different conventions have almost no effect. For tension balance purposes, I'd personally only judge it after a build anyway.

The BDOP thing is sufficient for getting spoke lengths right.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

November Dave said:


> The shells were changed from 10 to 11s. The cassette will be 1.8mm closer to the spokes with this cassette body. Just be careful with limit screws, as the clearance will be very exacting.


Do you mean that in order to get the extra 1.8mm needed they just milled it out of the cassette body? That's what it looks like with Macker's pic above.

Do the current F482SB 11 speed hubs use the same cassette body or is this one specially made for the 10 to 11 conversion?


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

tthome said:


> Again my thinking was since the F482SB has an 11speed and a 10 speed model that would indicate that the shell hasn't changed but rather the f'hub did. So if the 11 speed is simply shaved down 1.8mm back towards the hub and not extended longer I should be good to go!


TT you're kind of mixing up (2) diff. issues.

The (10)spd hub uses the f-hub seen on the RIGHT in the pic above.
The (11) spd hub uses a totally different f-hub. It is a wider f-hub and it will easily accept a Shimano (11)spd cassette. To be able to accept that wider f-hub, the hub body had to be made more narrow. Remember it has to fit in the drop outs of all modern road bikes out there.

The f-hub seen on the LEFT in the pic above is simply a manipulated (10)spd f-hub. It was machined to remove those small shoulders. This gives you the extra width needed to get the (11)spd cassettes on the manipulated f-hub.
However, this comes at a price. It means the cassette is much closer to your spokes and correspondingly the rear derailleur will be much closer to the spokes when you have shifted all the way up to the last cog. Thus Dave's comment earlier about paying careful attention to your upper limit screw. If the adjustment is sloppy you could easily shift your der. into the spokes.


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## November Dave (Dec 7, 2011)

^^^ exactly. The inboard 1.8mm of this cassette body are simply machined away to make it fit. That's why in a previous post I said you need to be very careful with limit stops and warned of chain/spoke interference. This puts the cassette balls close to the spokes.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

I just realized these look exactly like the PowerTap G3 freehubs (aren't they made by Joytech/Novatech anyways?). Lot cheaper than PowerTap's $100 replacement.


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## Mackers (Dec 29, 2009)

The PT freehubs are 2mm taller.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Mack, when you get the time would you mind posting up a pic of the cassette / hub on your bike? danka


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## Mackers (Dec 29, 2009)

What do you want to see?


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Just a shot from the back looking toward the cassette, and one from the top. And, (now I'm gettin greedy) and a close up of the 11tooth (or 12, whatever you run) and the gap between it and the drop out.


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## Mackers (Dec 29, 2009)

How about these?




























This is with an Ultegra 11-23 cassette and 40mm rims built with DT Swiss Aero Comp spokes DS. It's impossible to photograph properly but shifted to the 23 cog there's still ~ 2-3 mm between the spokes and the rear derailleur. Mind you, this is with an otherwise Campagnolo setup.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Thanks Mack, why did you want to run a Shimano cassette?


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Novembr Dave, I believe I have 're-discovered' the answer as to how this hub can fit an (11)spd Campy csstt. I had seen it on BDOP's site (2) years back then forgot all about it.

Wheel Parts-SIDECAPS

So it would seem that if you want to run the (11)spd Campy csstt option on this hub you would have to do some swapping of the side caps. This would indicate that the Campy f-hub extends just a bit closer towards the drive side drop out. Thus requiring that a 'thinner' side cap be fitted so the hub could still fit between the drop outs (130)mm.

I suppose you have to 'pick your poison'. Use the modified f-hub that Mackers showed above, run Shimano (11)spd csstt and shift everything towards the spokes.
Or....install BDOP's Campy f-hub, swap some side caps and run a Campy (11)spd csstt and shift everything towards the drive side drop out.

Wait a second, now that I think about it, it is very possible that BDOP's side cap swap might actually shift the entire hub towards the non-drive side drop out. Have no idea which side cap BDOP (actually NOVATEC) is requiring the user to change out. This would prevent the (11)tooth from being placed too close to the drive side drop out. I would think it would also require a slight re-dish.

To heck with all this speculation, surely a member out there in RBR Land has made this Campy conversion and side cap swapping.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Since Novatec incorporated these changeable end caps into their design it makes you wonder;

Could an (11)spd Novatec Shimano F-hub be fitted to the (10)spd Novatec hub by manipulating these different end caps? 

Bet BDOP knows the answer. Of course he has no incentive to sell the 'small' parts when he has the new generation (11)spd Shimano Novatec hubs for sale.


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## Mackers (Dec 29, 2009)

The Ultegra cassettes are half the price of my Chorus cassettes, lighter, and shift just as well.


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## Mackers (Dec 29, 2009)

The Novatec freehub for Campagnolo comes with two new sidecaps. Officially you need to swap out both, but most people can get away with just swapping the right side end cap since the Campagnolo freehub is only .7 mm taller. Only a slight redish is needed.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Mackers said:


> The Ultegra cassettes are half the price of my Chorus cassettes, lighter, and shift just as well.


Sssshhhh! Don't say that, you might get put on an ignored list.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Good stuff Mackers. Looks like you did some homework and discovered what it takes to run the Campy (11) speed f-hub.

Do you follow what I was saying above?
I am wondering if it would be possible to fit an (11)spd Novatec Shimano f-hub to the old school Novatec (10) speed hub. Possibly making it work using these alternative end caps. Not sure if that (11)spd Novatec Shimano f-hub would even 'bolt up' to the (10)spd Novatec hub. 

Clearly, Novatec could have easily created a solution (2) years back rather than trying to force everyone into buying new (11)spd hubs. I think it's a bit funny that the opportunist in China have filled this tech gap with one of their own creations (the f-hub you now own). Surly Novatec had to have seen this coming.

November Dave you said you tried many work arounds. Have you ever tried to do what I'm proposing?


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## Mackers (Dec 29, 2009)

See, I don't think these freehubs are made by Chinese opportunists. I think they're made by Novatec themselves, though not necessarily as replacement for these hubs. In all likelihood they were made for another hub brand with a slightly different hub shell spec. 
Reality is that with these freehubs things may go wrong under certain circumstances (think combinations of the derailleur hanger being out of spec, shallow rims, fat spokes, poorly adjusted derailleur, chain length) which is why I think these aren't offered by Novatec as official replacement parts.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Possibly made by Novatec...............huh, didn't see that one comin.

Yes, using that manipulated (machined) f-hub could easily blow up your sweet little rear wheel. Some plus size models are able to flex their crappy carbon rims and make them sway side to side. Sway + really close r. der = esplosion


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## November Dave (Dec 7, 2011)

Yes. Everything I tried was focused on trying to get a Novatec 11 speed cassette body on a Novatec 10 speed hub. I was not able to make it work. 

Putting an 11 speed Campagnolo cassette body on a 10 speed hub is very easy. It, and the Wheels Mfg Accelerator conversion cassette remain the simplest ways to use a Novatec 10s hub in an 11 speed drivetrain. In both cases you will be using cassettes designed for Campagnolo but which will work well with Shimano/SRAM. 

I fail to see this as a conspiracy on Novatec's part. Personally I think they'd have locked up more revenue in 'forcing' everyone to buy new cassette bodies than 'forcing' everyone to buy new hubs. But that's just my take.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

So will an (11) speed f-hub even 'mate up' to the interface on the (10) speed hub shell? Just curious. I have no doubt you attacked every angle possible. I have no delusions that I'm going to crack the case with Shoe Goo and my wire welder. 

Does the Wheels Cassette mount on a Campy f-hub or the Shimano f-hub version? 

Good point, if they had offered up an (11) spd f-hub that would retrofit on to their existing (10) speed hubs, they could have sold an untold amount.

Their approach did generate revenue for wheel builders. But again, you are only servicing wheels you sold I'm sure as a means of helping your customers. Doubt you are looking at it as a revenue stream.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

To the OP and Mackers; I thought of another solution
We all know that some people pull the (11) tooth off their csstt and use only (10) cogs so it can fit a (10)spd f-hub.
Others do basically the same thing and pull the (16) tooth cog.

This Chinese machined free hub would allow you to;
purchase an 11 ~ 25 Shimano cassette
install ALL (11) of the cogs
then lock out the (25)tooth cog giving you an 11 ~ 23 csstt
or you could do it with an 11 ~ 28 Shimano cassette and lock out the 28 giving you an 11 ~ 25 csstt 

This solution allows you to;
keep your (11) tooth (personally I need mine for the groups I ride with)
avoid having the 'clocking' of the csstt go out of sequence (this happens when people pull the (16) tooth)
and it allows you to keep your r. der. well away from the spokes as you wouldn't be shifting into that last cog


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## November Dave (Dec 7, 2011)

The Wheels cassette mounts on a 10s Shimano cassette body. Here is the link. I haven't used it myself, but at this point it is generally established (even within this thread) that 11 speed cassettes work fine on "the other kind of" 11 speed shifters.

From Novatec's perspective, I can assure you that high margin proprietary cassette body upgrades/conversions which their existing installed base is locked into is an infinitely better proposition than sending a bunch of marginally pissed off customers out into the market to make a new purchase decision from ground zero. Either they well and truly could not engineer an acceptable (to them and their liability and reputation) solution to make 10s hubs work with 11s, or they disagree with my just-stated assessment. My strong guess is that it's the former.

For our customers, we are subsidizing the swap. We would have loved an easy conversion, but at this point we're primarily working with WI and other hubs so this is just a customer-facing accommodation.


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## DuviVr6 (Feb 9, 2012)

Mackers said:


> I actually bought one from (I believe) the same guy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So you bought the hub that supposedly does not fit but it does? 
I so need this to be true!


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## waterlogged (Aug 29, 2009)

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but it appears that I can just chuck up the freehub in my lathe and machine off 1.8mm from the back flange where the cassette sits?


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

DuviVr6, the free hub being sold at the e-Bay link the OP provided IS the exact same f-hub that is on your (10)spd Novatec right now. It fits, it works and there are no big problems. The e-Bay f-hub has had material removed allowing you to install an (11)spd cassette. 

waterlogged, yes chuck that baby up. Those f-hubs are a bit soft. How will you grab it, with a collet?

But remember, make sure your upper limit screw is set perfectly so you don't shift the r. der. into the spokes. Becuase running this modified cassette means the entire cassette body just got 1.8mm closer to your spokes.


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## DuviVr6 (Feb 9, 2012)

Sounds good ordered one let's make this happen! I am rocking an 11 speed cassette minus 1 cog so it should be fine.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Yes and no, your current set-up, (11)spd cassette minus (1) cog is actually more narrow than a (10)spd cassette using all (10) of its cogs. 
Which cog did you pull out to make it fit your current (10)spd f-hub; the (11), the (16), other?
Also, what size spacer or spacers are you running behind the (11)spd cassette minus that (1) cog to make it work?


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## DuviVr6 (Feb 9, 2012)

I pulled the 16 and used the spacer that would have gone in between the cog I removed behind the cassette. I actually works great switching wheels without adjustment. I am running Athena 11 with ultegra cassettes.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

with the (16) gone, do you ever notice a slow shift when going from the (15) to the (17)? 
some people claim that since the 'clocking' of the cassette gets interrupted then the shifts can get a bit slower.


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## DuviVr6 (Feb 9, 2012)

No issues shifting from 15/17


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## Bridgestone (Sep 6, 2007)

DuviVr6 said:


> I pulled the 16 and used the spacer that would have gone in between the cog I removed behind the cassette. I actually works great switching wheels without adjustment. I am running Athena 11 with ultegra cassettes.


What would be the point of a 11- 10 speed with no 16. ? Not a gear I would live without.


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## DuviVr6 (Feb 9, 2012)

To be able to run 10 speed wheels on an 11 speed bike.


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## Bridgestone (Sep 6, 2007)

DuviVr6 said:


> To be able to run 10 speed wheels on an 11 speed bike.


And lose any advantage of owning a 10-or 11 speed.


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## DuviVr6 (Feb 9, 2012)

I would say gain advantage since 11 speed shifting and ergo is much better than the older 10 speed. Plus I can 're use older 10 speed wheels.


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## Bridgestone (Sep 6, 2007)

DuviVr6 said:


> I would say gain advantage since 11 speed shifting and ergo is much better than the older 10 speed. Plus I can 're use older 10 speed wheels.


If a 11 speed ergo lever is the desire sub a shimano RD along with a shimano 14-25 14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25, 9 speed cassette, losing a sixteen makes no sense , no matter how you justify it.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

O P did you order that free hub?


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## tthome (May 12, 2008)

metoou2 said:


> O P did you order that free hub?


I did but I have yet to receive.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Good deal, stuff out of Taiwan and or China can take a while.

Have you searched up on the YouTubes for a video showing how to make the free hub swap?

How deep is the carbon clincher you will be using and are the spokes round or flat? The deeper the better for when it comes to having more clearance for the r. der.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

tthome,
so have you received the free hub?


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## DuviVr6 (Feb 9, 2012)

In know mine left china 2 weeks ago, hoping it comes in any time now!


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

My latest purchase from Taiwan coming to me here in the states took right at (3) weeks. The parcel gets to the port of Los Angeles fast, in like (5) days and then it sets in customs for (2) weeks.


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## DuviVr6 (Feb 9, 2012)

I finally received my rear freewheel, comparing it with the original 10 speed.
-It certainly has less space closer to the spokes, and is the same length as the original. 
-It has 11 speed engraved on the hub, my original had a short number on it.
-It does not look like a regrind of the freewheel since the paint(anodized I believe) is intact.

Will post pics shortly.


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## tthome (May 12, 2008)

metoou2 said:


> tthome,
> so have you received the free hub?


I received my 11 speed freehub. it's the same lenght as my 10 speed freehub and it appears that the freehub I received is a little shaved down along the grooves. It is however engraved with 11 speed along the length of the freehub. I haven't installed yet but it appears to be the exact same freehub shown on an earlier post that compares the 11speed to the old 10 speed. Basically when installed it will mean the cassette is just a tick closer to the spokes but I don't think it will be a problem as long as I'm careful with the limit screw adjustment on the bike.


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## DuviVr6 (Feb 9, 2012)

Pics: 11 Speed is on the right


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## tthome (May 12, 2008)

DuviVr6 said:


> Pics: 11 Speed is on the right


yep...looks the same as what I received. Here's hoping that it really is an easy 10 to 11 speed upgrade. Please let us know Duvi if it works. I'll be a few weeks or so away from upgrading my bike to 11 speed.


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## talawan (Sep 4, 2010)

any update here?


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## DuviVr6 (Feb 9, 2012)

The new freewheel takes 11 speed and works perfect on the hub. Just be sure to set your limit screws correctly and ride on.


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## talawan (Sep 4, 2010)

DuviVr6 said:


> The new freewheel takes 11 speed and works perfect on the hub. Just be sure to set your limit screws correctly and ride on.


Any instructions on how to change the freehubs on F372SB. Thanks in advance.


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## DuviVr6 (Feb 9, 2012)

You need a 5 Allen and 17 cone wrench. Allen goes in the non drive side and wrench in the drive side. Loosen it up and you can continue to unscrew with your hand. Once the drive side cup comes out, you can pull the freewheel off.


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## talawan (Sep 4, 2010)

Thanks DuviVr6...


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