# Old brands to look for on the cheap?



## ProjectRider (Oct 18, 2007)

Kind of an odd question but it was suggested on another portion of the forum to look for an old used bike. I do not have much of a budget at this time, and I tried to borrow a friends Pacific brand bike but it is one pothole from falling apart on me. My budget is roughly $200 +/- but the cheaper the better. I know that is a super tight budget but that's why I'm asking this. 

What are some good brands to look for used from the 80's or 90's, maybe even early 00's? Doesn't have to be pretty, just needs to be solid and being 'upgradeable' or atleast easy-ish to find parts for would be a huge plus. I will measure myself to make sure the bike fits me when I find one. 

Thanks for any suggestions for this newbie


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## 9.8m/s/s (May 7, 2006)

Craigslist or tag sales would be your best bet. 

I'd stick with the major brands from the era. Trek, Specialized, Giant, Cannondale. 


What size are you? I've got an old aluminum 51cm Trek with downtube shifter's that would fit in your budget.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

Nishiki, Bridgestone, Miyata, Panasonic, Univega, Centuriun and all the big brands that are still around. The brands I listed were mostly Japanese production, and really nicely made lugged bikes or aluminum.


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## ProjectRider (Oct 18, 2007)

9.8m/s/s said:


> Craigslist or tag sales would be your best bet.
> 
> I'd stick with the major brands from the era. Trek, Specialized, Giant, Cannondale.
> 
> ...


I am a hair under 6'1", so I believe the frame size I need in CM is 50 - 54 CM or so. 



rx-79g said:


> Nishiki, Bridgestone, Miyata, Panasonic, Univega, Centuriun and all the big brands that are still around. The brands I listed were mostly Japanese production, and really nicely made lugged bikes or aluminum.


Thanks! I'll see if I can turn anything up on local Craigslist.


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## RJohn (Mar 24, 2009)

Don't overlook the old Schwinn Columbus Tenax steel tubed bikes. At 6'1", a 58 would be a better choice I think.


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## ProjectRider (Oct 18, 2007)

RJohn said:


> Don't overlook the old Schwinn Columbus Tenax steel tubed bikes. At 6'1", a 58 would be a better choice I think.


Found one Columbus and one Tempo, both with 105's slapped everywhere you can on them apparently. Both claim to be of pre-crap Schwinn era and so forth. Tempo and Columbus the same/similar? Columbus is a 62CM and the Tempo is a 57CM. 

In my area the easiest to find is Nishiki, Miyata and Centuriun. These come within my price range. Should I be looking for a certain set of componenets from that era that are bullet-proof on these bikes? I did find the 105's on the Schwinn, I'm assuming 105's from any time are a good bet?

By the way, thanks for the help everybody, it's helping this roadbike newb out a ton


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

DeRosa, Masi, Cinelli, Falcon, Boteccia, Time, Look, Basso to name a few more.


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## Cbookman (Jul 2, 2009)

shimano 600 is a step up from 105, and then there is RX100, which I believe was 105 level or just below it.


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## ProjectRider (Oct 18, 2007)

So here's a question...found a local 10-speed Schwinn on Craigslist for $35, needs new tires and tubes. I am waiting to hear back from the seller on frame size and other info, but it is listed as a mid 80's bike so I'm assuming it's a decent frame? I'm also wondering if I can put more modern hardware on? While liveable, I wouldn't mind being spoiled by handlebar shifters...

EDIT: Also, is a frame limited a certain size cassette?

EDIT#2:









Maybe a Schwinn Le Tour?


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Schwinns are pretty variable. That one looks like it has stem-mounted shifters, a chainring guard, and sissy bars on the brakes - none of those are good signs. 10-speed is also going to have a fairly annoying upgrade path to modern components.

I think indexed downtube shifters are pretty nice. It would also be nice to have 700C wheels, 130mm dropout spacing, and at least an 8-speed cassette. However, that stuff's not necessarily going to overlap with the nice older Japanese bikes, many of which are a little bit older and more likely to be 12-speeds (2x6 drivetrain.)

My utility bike is a mid-80s Raleigh 12-speed. It's been relatively easy to maintain, and with a change of brake I have a 700C rear wheel now; I'll replace the front wheel with a 700C too when it comes up. There are some pretty nice bikes out there, but the less stuff you have to strip off or replace, the better.

Make some calls around your area and see if there are shops specializing in used bikes near you. It can save you a lot of time, give you the opportunity to test ride a few sizes, and reputable shops will likely offer a 30-day guarantee or something similar, although I imagine that depends where you are.


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

rx-79g said:


> Nishiki, Bridgestone, Miyata, Panasonic, Univega, Centuriun and all the big brands that are still around. The brands I listed were mostly Japanese production, and really nicely made lugged bikes or aluminum.


If you're a C&V, classic & vintage, rider you'll know those bikes are rising in price fast. You can still find some deals. But they're getting a lot harder to find. Good luck and good riding.


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## [email protected] (Oct 16, 2010)

where do you live maybe we can help you find something there for you


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## [email protected] (Oct 16, 2010)

was just on Ebay found alot for 150 to 300 some would be a good start


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> was just on Ebay found alot for 150 to 300 some would be a good start


Don't forget shipping. Five years ago you could ship a whole bike for $35 - $50. Now it's more like $85 $100 for a complete. That's kind of ebays not too hidden cost. Sometimes your local CL, Craigs list, has some good deals.


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## Reynolds531 (Nov 8, 2002)

Forget brands for a minute. The first thing you need to do is figure out the size of bike you need. Fit is more important than brand, and you seem to be all over the place on size. Here's a good reference: http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm

Second step is to decide what type of bike you need---gear range, tire width, room for fenders?, do you need a rack? seating position

Then you can start looking for a bike. Once you avoid departmetn store junk, condition is more important than brand. There were a lot of good brands from the 80's and 90's.

I think that the simplest intitial indicator of quality is forged dropouts instead of stamped dropouts. I've never seen a low quality bike with forged dropouts.


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

"found a local 10-speed Schwinn on Craigslist for $35" thats a good candidate for a fixie/single speed conversion.


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## dfvcador (Jun 4, 2006)

At 6'1" you will be all cramped up on a 54cm. You are much closer to fitting on 57cm or 58cm. I am 5'8" and I ride a 54cm. Review Colorado Cyclist Bike Fit Guide to help you make a good decision.


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## tk1971 (Aug 31, 2010)

Someone got a great deal around my part of town recently from CL. Further inspection of the pictures shows a nice SR800 full aluminum race oriented bike.

1988 vintage cannondale road bike - $120 (sunland)

mostly stock 58 cm 1988 cannondale road bike with ultegra components. the rear deraileur is the only missing piece. i have a short cage MTB deraileur on it now. it has to go, make a reasonable offer, it wont be refused. 

Like with any brand (look @ Sheldon Brown's site for advice), any brand has dogs as well as cherries. 

Lookout for DT shifters, 700C rims. These would indicate a nice bike in the 80's.

tk


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

If you're willing to spend a bit more www.bikesdirect.com.


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## ProjectRider (Oct 18, 2007)

I hear BD.com is the scourge of the earth on here lol. I think I can get a better deal used as well, and because I live next to the Trexlertown Velodrome in Pennsylvania, there are plenty of respectable and high end bikes on craigslist and local stores. Unfortunately, most of them I cannot afford 

Sorry for not being on yesterday to answer questions, I spent most of the day at the hospital with a dead cell phone and a family member so I was unable to check online. 

The good thing is that one of my family members knows a church-goer who has 2 race bikes he no longer will use. Now I don't know more information besides that as she didn't think much of it when she was told, but she said she'd try to call today and get more information. I'm crossing my fingers that I fell ontop of a deal and that they are still available. I haven't heard anything about that craigslist bike I inquired about either. 

I do need to get my measurements though, I agree. All I've got at this point is a general rule of thumb sizing I read online. I'll have the SO get my exact measurements tonight or tomorrow so I can atleast have the info available.


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## ProjectRider (Oct 18, 2007)

Also, what measurements of my own body would be ideal to get for frame size fitment? IE - right now all I've got is that I am just shy of 6'1", my comfort jean is 33 waist and 33 length or 34x33 depending on company.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

BD isn't the scourge of the Earth. I helped a friend buy a bike there. They did everything they advertised and did it promptly. The bike was fine and had the exact equipment as stated on BD's web site. It's not my cup of tea but it arrived on time in perfect condition. What's not to like?


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## ProjectRider (Oct 18, 2007)

Mr. Versatile said:


> BD isn't the scourge of the Earth. I helped a friend buy a bike there. They did everything they advertised and did it promptly. The bike was fine and had the exact equipment as stated on BD's web site. It's not my cup of tea but it arrived on time in perfect condition. What's not to like?


I used this site for research on bargain sites for buying bikes and 99% of threads well respected members dumped on BD.com. I've since then decided to buy used anyways so it doesn't matter, but it was something about shilling and 'questionable' new users praising the site, some being banned for obvious reasons. My judgement is neutral since I have no experience, my remark was more about what others have said. Sorry for the misunderstanding.


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## ProjectRider (Oct 18, 2007)

Peugeot Aspin 14 speed with 105's and Mavic rims for $175 good? 56cm.


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## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

ProjectRider said:


> I used this site for research on bargain sites for buying bikes and 99% of threads well respected members dumped on BD.com. I've since then decided to buy used anyways so it doesn't matter, but it was something about shilling and 'questionable' new users praising the site, some being banned for obvious reasons. My judgement is neutral since I have no experience, my remark was more about what others have said. Sorry for the misunderstanding.



Thankfully; your stats are incorrect
no where near 99% of threads of well respected members dump on BD.com. 

And in fact, it would closer to say the 99% of actual buyers support our site as a great place to get bike shop quality bikes at a supper discount

I fell most detractors from the on-line shopping have a vested interest in the traditional distribution channel

As far as used bikes goes: some are great deals; most are not; and many buyers get totally burned when buying used. The results of buying used are much more closely connected to how much you know than when buying new; and are somewhat dependent on luck and time spent. [we get hundreds of sales a month from people who wish they had never purchased on craigslist] 

However, if you take your time; and double check bikes closely and you can find a great deal on a used bike. Have fun and be safe


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## Yangpei (Sep 21, 2004)

cs1 said:


> Don't forget shipping. Five years ago you could ship a whole bike for $35 - $50. Now it's more like $85 $100 for a complete. That's kind of ebays not too hidden cost. Sometimes your local CL, Craigs list, has some good deals.



More than that. I recently sold one of my bikes and it cost $130 to ship UPS from Pasadena to Anaheim. Another bike I shipped to Philadelphia to have work done on it cost $170 with UPS. Both were insured so it probably added $30 for insurance.


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## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

Yangpei said:


> More than that. I recently sold one of my bikes and it cost $130 to ship UPS from Pasadena to Anaheim. Another bike I shipped to Philadelphia to have work done on it cost $170 with UPS. Both were insured so it probably added $30 for insurance.



Yes
and 29er are even worse due to box size.
With increases in shipping; it does make it harder & harder for sellers on-line to provide Free Shipping


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

ProjectRider said:


> Peugeot Aspin 14 speed with 105's and Mavic rims for $175 good? 56cm.


14 speed - means a double crank and 7 cogs? Depending on the drivetrain configuration, it might worry me. When 7-speed first came out, the cogs were on a freewheel that threaded onto the hub and left a lot of unsupported axle. Even a cyclist of fairly modest weight and conservative riding style can bend the axles on most of those hubs. There were also a couple of different freehub styles that came out for 7-speed, one of which should still be relatively common. With older bikes that have been in someone's garage, though, you never know what you're going to get.

Here's something on hubs.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html

My other big consideration is that to me, if an older bike with equipment that I anticipate being a bit of a headache costs over $100, it had better have a nice frame. Peugeot made a variety, like most manufacturers. If it's unidentified, heavy steel, $175 is too much. If it's a nice tubeset (you'd be able to find information online by entering the name. An example would be "Reynolds 831" or "Columbus FoCo," the frame itself is worth something before even bolting stuff to it.

The frame may or may not be big enough for you. IMO, if you're going to shop on Craig's List for something to train on, you need to figure out what top tube length you like. Then, you can ask sellers to measure it and be a lot less likely to waste your time and theirs on a trip to test-ride.


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## ProjectRider (Oct 18, 2007)

bikesdirect said:


> Thankfully; your stats are incorrect
> no where near 99% of threads of well respected members dump on BD.com.
> 
> And in fact, it would closer to say the 99% of actual buyers support our site as a great place to get bike shop quality bikes at a supper discount
> ...


I'm the newb here so arguing is pointless for me, I was merely stating what I saw in various threads both current and archived when I did research. Bear in mind I was never attacking your site, in fact I think the browsing experience and info provided is my facorite of sites visited :thumbsup: 

As for used, I have gone through your site and I like the bikes, they are just out of reach financially for me now. I could wait and save up, but I tend to be impatient and I'm very close to the Velodrome here so there is a pretty good market for quality used bikes around here. I'm crossing my fingers but if nothing works out, I'm sure a nice new Gravity 2 would fit nicely in the shed 



AndrwSwitch said:


> 14 speed - means a double crank and 7 cogs? Depending on the drivetrain configuration, it might worry me. When 7-speed first came out, the cogs were on a freewheel that threaded onto the hub and left a lot of unsupported axle. Even a cyclist of fairly modest weight and conservative riding style can bend the axles on most of those hubs. There were also a couple of different freehub styles that came out for 7-speed, one of which should still be relatively common. With older bikes that have been in someone's garage, though, you never know what you're going to get.
> 
> Here's something on hubs.
> 
> ...


Good advice and if the seller gets back to me with info I can start doing research. If you have an adjustable steering stem/handlebars would that help negate improper top tube size? I wonder, because I lack experience on a proper road bike, if I'd be able to tell what size I would like over an extended period of riding. 

Since the tenac/tenax Scwinn frames are regarded highly and just at the tippy top of my spending budget, I may go back to that as a safety since there were 2 available local to me. I do lack experience and knowledge, but that is why I am here asking for this forum's guidance  I'm grateful for all the help though!


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

The reason top tube size is so critical is that while the telescoping seat posts on most bikes make seat tube length relatively unimportant and it's possible to get almost any handlebar height with the right stem, only a relatively small range of stem lengths give acceptable handling characteristics. What lengths those are, exactly, is subject to debate. I'd say on a road bike, it's from around a 60mm horizontal extension to around 140mm, although I think that a narrower range would be preferable. My experience of an 80mm stem (new kind, so a little less extension than that) was that handling is a little funky; I'm not a big guy and don't like that long a reach, so I haven't run into a road frame that was too short for me horizontally, and I'm getting my 140mm number more from other people's comments on forums and from seeing what's commonly available to buy.

With that large range, only a 60mm range of lengths gives an acceptable fit. Personally, I'd want to stay within an even smaller band. Looking at brands' product lines, you'll notice that road bike top tube lengths tend to vary by a pretty small length from size to size - on the order of 15mm. The good news is that for most people, about three sizes will give an acceptable fit with the right stem length, although someone buying retail would probably want to get optimal, not just acceptable.

I have too many bikes. Unfortunately, I probably get more saddle time commuting than anything else, and since I try to keep my commuters cheap enough not to ruin my week by getting stolen or vandalized, the current one is a little too big. Even with a very short stem extension and the bars level with the saddle, it hurts me if I go on a longer ride on it - millimeters are not a big deal here, but centimeters definitely matter, and it's only off by a few. For a training bike, I think it's very important to get it right, at least within the range of common stem sizes.


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## ProjectRider (Oct 18, 2007)

Ok, I think I understand and it makes sense. So it comes down to personal preference in that respect though? I was thinking of getting those 'smaller' aero bar add-on pieces that clamp on the bars for comfort, since the full on Tri-athlon style bars are too much but I like the idea of being able to switch between positions. My eventual hope for this bike is being able to do 10-20 miles a day or so and running errands on the bike as well.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

There are already a lot of hand positions on drop bars. Offhand, I can think of about five I use that are somewhat distinct, but there are really infinite number, once you start counting in-between positions. Doesn't mean you shouldn't use clip-on aero bars, but wait until you've had some saddle time on plain drop bars before you decide you really want them.

Top tube sizing is certainly personal preference in the sense that I would prefer a different size from you. There's also a certain degree of fashion involved. However, it's fairly easy for someone with a little saddle time to look at a person on a bike and say "that person has their reach set up too long" or "that person could use some more space." Hopefully, they also have the judgement not to go around telling people that their bikes don't fit. 

Current fashion is for a rider to ride with his hands on the brake hoods. It's not the only way to do it, though, and a lot of older bikes have bare metal brake hoods that stick straight out from the handlebar. With inorganically shaped, bare metal hoods, it's not a very comfortable position, and you might find you prefer to ride with your hands on the corners of the handlebars, above and behind that spot. I'd generally consider a bike that's most comfortably ridden by a rider with his hands on the flat part of the handlebar, between the corners and the stem, to be too big, and one that's most comfortably ridden in the drops to have the handlebars too close, too high, or both. Personal preference certainly plays into that too, though - some people set their handlebars up to be ridden in the drops almost all the time. When you test-ride, try to ride at the effort levels you'll be using when you ride the bike in the future - the most comfortable position changes, depending on how hard a rider is working.

It's possible to complicate fit quite a lot, but I think that if you can ride on the brake hoods or corners without a lot of weight on your hands, without feeling cramped, and with some bend in your elbows, you're in the ballpark. If 10-20 miles is the extent of your ambitions, the ballpark's really close enough, but if you find you get into riding bikes as a sport, you'll want a better fit. At least at that point, you'll have some experience on drop bars, and be more able to choose something that works for you. Hopefully, you'll also have a bit more money squirreled away - buying retail makes sizing a lot easier for someone who can feel whether a bike fits or not but doesn't know their preferred frame measurements in mm.


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