# Anybody Riding HED Ardennes?



## rollin nolan

Has anyone tried the new HED Ardennes wheelset yet? Their claim of the benefits of a wider rim is intriguing. It seems like a pretty good wheel with light weight, good design, good looks, etc. What do you think? What do you think of HED wheels in general.


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## kbiker3111

Timmer likes them and he usually doesn't shill products too unapologetically. HED in general makes pretty decent stuff and they aren't as prone to hyperbole the way Zipp and others can be.

The wheels I'm really excited about are the Jet C2's. They seem like a breakaway/TT dream (assuming they follow thru as advertised).


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## rollin nolan

Are the Jet C2's or Ardennes in stores yet?


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## cannondalekeith

I'm going to revive this thread because I too am interested in these wheels and some first hand experiences form people on this forum. 

I am intrigued by the concept of the 23mm rim. It changes the profile of the tire (23 clincher) a lot (more like a tubular in shape). Also, the weight of the wheelset is very good (1360 grams or so I think). 

Hope someone out there has some feedback to give.

Cheers,

K


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## kbiker3111

cannondalekeith said:


> I'm going to revive this thread because I too am interested in these wheels and some first hand experiences form people on this forum.
> 
> I am intrigued by the concept of the 23mm rim. It changes the profile of the tire (23 clincher) a lot (more like a tubular in shape). Also, the weight of the wheelset is very good (1360 grams or so I think).
> 
> Hope someone out there has some feedback to give.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> K


I think the only riders who currently have decent milage on them are sponsored, so I don't think you're gonna find much independent opinion out there. I'd love for someone to come prove me wrong....


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## rollin nolan

Thanks for bringing this thread back to life. Bring on the reviews.


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## aaronbarker

*on Bastognes, not Ardennes..........*

Hi all,

I've been riding a pair of HED Bastognes for the last year and a half (at least) and am quite happy. They're probably the lightest aluminum wheels available and have proven quite durable across the 3000+ miles I've rode them for including one head-on collision with a curb that tossed me over the bars. I found no damage to the wheels at all afterwards. As for the Ardennes, I would only give them a 'thumbs-up' by comparison only since they seem fairly similar to the Bastogne models. I haven't seen much on these either and would love to see more reviews.

have fun,
aaron


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## Kenacycle

I just ordered a pair of Ardennes! I can't wait to try them out.

Does anyone know if HED wheels come with rim tapes from the factory?


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## woogie11

I have a couple hundred miles on a set of Ardennes, I will say they lived up to the hype. These are better than any wheel set I've used which includes, Ksyrium SL's, Reynolds Alta Race, Reynolds MV32's and Dura Ace 7801/7850. The most impressive thing for me, is their acceleration and rolling ability. They are smoother than my 7850's, which were my most recent wheels, but not in a mind blowing way. The bearing's are also incredibley nice, the brake track too was an improvement over the 7850's, these wheels stop very well. They do not come with rim tape. Peace.


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## Kenacycle

Woogie11,

thanks for your words on the Ardennes. 
What width rim tape did you put on them?
Did they come with skewers?
Did you upgrade yours to ceramic bearing?

I just ordered a pair lastnight! I am excited to receive them. I had ordered some Velox 22mm rim tape, but I am afraid that maybe too wide.


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## cannondalekeith

I ordered a pair last week and should have them sometime this week. I will post reviews when I get some miles in on them. I too am excited about getting these on my System 6

K


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## supercrank

My 2 cents:

Test rode these wheels for a weekend, and I was impressed with the ride quality. They felt reassuringly solid when leaning the bike into corners. Minor complaints: 1) loud freehub mechanism (not a big deal) 2) mounting pre-stretched Michelin Pro 3's was super tough, even required a tire iron-- might have been easier with a thinner rim strip (these wheels had velox rim tape) 3) the freehub body seems particularly soft-- after picking up the lightly used test wheels, I had to file down the splines a little to get my cassette on.

Overall, very nice wheels. Enjoy them!





kdub said:


> Woogie11,
> 
> thanks for your words on the Ardennes.
> What width rim tape did you put on them?
> Did they come with skewers?
> Did you upgrade yours to ceramic bearing?
> 
> I just ordered a pair lastnight! I am excited to receive them. I had ordered some Velox 22mm rim tape, but I am afraid that maybe too wide.


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## Kenacycle

Do the Ardennes really turn Clincher tires to feeling like tubulars as they claimed?


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## woogie11

Hey, "normal" width rim tape worked just fine. I agree with Supercrank, the downhill characteristics of these wheels are amazing, the tires have a flatter profile which makes the transition from inner to outer tread much more seamless. They came with quick releases. I did not do the bearing upgrade, as my rep recommended against it. They are hyrbrid and not full ceramics, for $150 I could do after market full ceramics, however, as I said the bearings are of very high quality already. The free hub body material is titanium, so it may score easily, but it should last a long time. I do not think these wheels ride like "tubulars" I have mine mounted with 23C Vittoria Open Corsa CX's, which are "open tubulars" and find that for how stiff they are they ride very smooth, however I wouldn't call it tubulars. I would say they are unique feeling. All in all, thumbs up. Peace.


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## Kenacycle

Thank you Woogie11,

So what width is "normal" rim tape? would 16mm be ok? What width tape did you use?

could you post a picture of the tire profile on the rim? I can't find any close up pictures of these rims with tires mounted.


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## woogie11

18mm Velox cloth rim tape. The tire profile is a marginal increase, I also mountain bike and have come to learn that in relation to rim width tire growth is incremental at best. I measured my tire contact patch with calipers and they come out to 24ish, so a slight increase in overall diameter. I will post some pics later tonight, see ya.


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## supercrank

Minor point: the freehub body on the HED sonic hubs is made of aluminum alloy. This is one of the reasons why I opted for a Dura-Ace 7850 wheelset, which does come with a more durable titanium freehub.

Regarding the "feel like tubulars" question, I have limited experience on tubular wheelsets. However, with Michelin Pro 3s and latex tubes, the ride is as good as anything else I've experienced. I'm a fan of the Vittoria Cx's in terms of rolling resistance and overall ride quality, but I've never found them to be particularly comforting in hard corners-- just my opinion.



woogie11 said:


> Hey, "normal" width rim tape worked just fine. I agree with Supercrank, the downhill characteristics of these wheels are amazing, the tires have a flatter profile which makes the transition from inner to outer tread much more seamless. They came with quick releases. I did not do the bearing upgrade, as my rep recommended against it. They are hyrbrid and not full ceramics, for $150 I could do after market full ceramics, however, as I said the bearings are of very high quality already. The free hub body material is titanium, so it may score easily, but it should last a long time. I do not think these wheels ride like "tubulars" I have mine mounted with 23C Vittoria Open Corsa CX's, which are "open tubulars" and find that for how stiff they are they ride very smooth, however I wouldn't call it tubulars. I would say they are unique feeling. All in all, thumbs up. Peace.


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## rollin nolan

Woggie 11,

Thanks for the review. Here's a side question. Can you discern any aero difference between your MV32's and the various aluminum clinchers you've owned? Can you discern any aero difference between the aluminum clinchers including the Ardennes?


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## woogie11

The MV32's I think may have marginally rolled better. Out of the aluminium wheels, these are definitely the best followed by the 7850's. I actually just bought these to try, I was originally planning on having these be a "filler" wheelset till the Dura Ace CL24's were available, however, no longer! I do not think 150 grams weight difference between the 7850Scandium to the CL24's would outperform the Ardennes. The 7850's are incredible wheels and to have the Ardennes noticeabley outperform them is very impressive to me.


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## rollin nolan

Woogie, let's see those pics you promised!!!


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## Kenacycle

rollin nolan said:


> Woogie, let's see those pics you promised!!!



yeah! let's see em


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## de.abeja

Why aren't the HED wheels more popular around here? I see legions of Zipp-heads and Reynolds lovers, HED seems to be in the same league with a little bit lower price point.


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## Kenacycle

My Ardennes are supposedly shipping out today. I was told the wheels have been upgraded to ceramic bearings at no charge! I wonder if that's true or the vendor is just saying that to get me excited; afterall I wouldn't know what bearings are inside the wheels anyway.


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## cannondalekeith

Hey woogie, wheres those pics? (Sorry, Im anxiously waiting for my order and thought this might help feed the desire a little).

K


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## Kenacycle

^^^

+1 , what he said


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## woogie11

Hey, tried to post em last night, my wireless internet is real spotty. Will try again tonight...!


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## JM714

I have been looking, but I can't seem to find the rim height for these wheels, anyone have that info? Also what is HED's stallion build compared to their conventional build?


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## rollin nolan

I emailed HED a while ago about the depth. It is 25mm. I asked about their EX version (for heavier riders). They said that I'd be fine with the standard wheel at 185 pounds. I dont' know what the weight limit is.


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## cannondalekeith

*Weight limit*

I think the website says the "stallion" version is meant for riders over 190 lbs so I am assuming that the limit for the regular version is somewhere at or above that. 

K


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## woogie11

Still having trouble, but here's one...


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## Kenacycle

Pic's working. Load a few more


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## woogie11

hope these turn out...


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## woogie11

a couple more...


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## tyjacks

*Ardennes vs Fulcrum Racing Zero*

Has anyone here compared or riden the Fulcrum Racing Zero's to the Ardennes?


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## Campbelllevy

That last image from woogie is my favorite. I wish my new Sram Red Cassette picked up as much greenery as yours.

On a serious note though, the wheels look great.


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## Kenacycle

Woogie, was tire mounting difficult on the Ardennes?

You ripped off all the HED Ardennes stickers on the wheels didn't you?


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## woogie11

Hey. Yeah, I took off the stickers. They were actually fine looking and functional (reflective), I just knew flat black would look better. The tires went on very easily but, were already slightly used and the Vittoria CX Evo's are very flexible to begin with. Very impressive wheels all in all.


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## dno

How is the stiffness of these wheels? I am concerned at around 175 that they might be too soft given their weight?????


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## woogie11

They seem plenty stiff, no give that I can feel, I weigh about 155. Other people who have ridden my bike say the same that they accelerate very, very quickly.


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## Kenacycle

I just received my Ardennes today! I'm Very excited indeed

I took some pics for those who are interested. The rim surely does maximize the width of my Michelin Pro3 Race tiers. And these wheels are amazingly light. Especially the front. It almost feels like it's on helium. Actual weight of my wheels are 1382grams (599 front/783 rear)


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## Kenacycle

I got a great deal on these wheels from Gear and Training. They gave me free shipping by USPS priority to Canada (value $34) plus they upgraded my wheels with ceramic bearings (value $130). When I placed my order I was going to dish out $130 and get ceramic bearings, but I was hesitant and wanted to save the money. So when they said they'll do it for free I was very pleased.

Gear and Training offers free shipping for orders over $50. I have purchased alot of clothes from them because of this. I love free shipping
http://www.gearandtraining.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=31895


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## Kenacycle

In these pics I tried to take a picture of the tire's side profile. I compared it with my Mavic CXP33 wheels mounted with the same tire. It's hard to see the difference in the photos, but in person you can feel and see the difference better.


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## krisdrum

You can definitely see the profile difference in all those pictures. Much lower/flatter profile than you typically see in a clincher. I want to hear more about how they ride... great looking wheels.


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## rollin nolan

Sweet pics. Do you have any photos with them on the bike?


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## Kenacycle

I love these wheels! It makes my tires looks so chubby it's kinda cute.

Also the bladed spokes on the front wheel is narrower than the rear,making them feel razor sharp.


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## wankski

thats a v nice set up u have there mate... thanks for the pics...


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## tyjacks

*Hed C2..???*

The Ardennes look and sound like great wheels. I'm trying to decide between these and the C2's. Has anyone purchased the C2's yet? From what I'm told the only difference is the C2's have the carbon fairing, a little heavier, but offer a little more aero advantage, they are both built on the same wheel.


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## cannondalekeith

*Ardennes in - first ride impressions:*

Hey folks, my Ardennes came in yesterday and I took off work early so I could get the cassette (11-26 Rival to go with my 50-36 compact) and tires mounted. 

So, they are very, very light (1361 ont he scales at the shop)! They also look very nice which is a bonus (if youre into that and you know you are). The tires (23mm Michelin Pro 3 Race) do look a lot wider than they do on the 19mm rim. 

I went out on a 65 km ride and I have to say, they are well worth the money. Compared to the Ultegras that came stock on my 07 Liquigas System 6, the Ardennes are unreal. 

I found that they were very stiff (im about 168) in and out of the saddle (climbing or on the flats) and that they rolled very well - the rolling resistance was noticeably less. I also found them to have a much smoother ride - more plush. Cornering was also more stable and predictable and I felt more comfortable really leaning into the turns at higher speeds than I had before. The braking power was also much better than the Ultegra's. They were also less susceptible to crosswinds (and it was a very windy day). Overall, I was amazed at how these wheels made my bike that much better. 

I know I only have one ride in and Im sure there's a level of ' new equipment placebo effect' but I tried to be as objective as possible in my assessment. 

I will post pics and a more detailed breakdown when I have a few more rides in on these.

Based on my first impression however, I would definitely pick these up if you have the cash. You wont be disappointed.

Keith


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## pcd993

I have put over 1000 miles on my Hed Ardennes, at the Giro di Sardegna, Tilff Bastogne Tilff and les 3 Ballons, amongst other training rides. I like them. They are light and I have had no problems with them, other than to say that something rattles a bit in my set and, irritatingly, I can't find what it is! They climb well and are stiff enough for me (70kgs). The cornering is good, although hardly the revolution they claim in the advertising. No need for true-ing, despite some awful roads. They are good value too.

2 points to note: 
- they recommend running them with Pro Race or Open Corsa tyres only
- because of the wide rim, be careful what brakes you use. Shimano is fine, but I cannot run them with my Bonty speed limiters because there is not enough adjustment.


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## tyjacks

Anyone have updates on their HED Ardennes?


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## cannondalekeith

I have about 1000kms on mine sine I have them and I have to say that they are, undoubtedly, the best wheel I have ever had. IMO, the wider rim makes for a smoother ride. They have taken a licking on the rough roads in my area and have stayed perfectly true and round. Not sure what else to say - overall great wheelset!


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## jhamlin38

thanks canndondalekeith.. As I look into my crystal ball, this will become a standard in the industry, and aero/tubeless versions in CF and AL. 
would this wheelset be appropriate for someone in the 190lbs weight?


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## niteschaos

Wow! SuperSix with M5 brakes?!? weight weenie!


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## colins

I went hunting for more info about this wheelset after reading the review on Cyclingnews today as I was curious about their only con: swapping wheels and readjusting brakes. As someone who races a fair amount, the possibility of being outside of the barrel adjustment range when swapping these for a normal width rim is very worrisome. Have any of you comments regarding this?


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## kbiker3111

http://ericoftedahl.blogspot.com/2008/08/new-ride.html

Read the last paragraph. He works for HED.


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## colins

kbiker3111 said:


> http://ericoftedahl.blogspot.com/2008/08/new-ride.html
> 
> Read the last paragraph. He works for HED.


I can't believe I didn't think of that. Thanks


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## AidanM

hey check the cyclingews tech reviews, they did the ardenned yesterday ( thats why i thought this thread was bumbped) but cyclingnews did the highest review ive ever seen, they raved and raved about thesewheels ( ina good way). they got 5 stars.


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## kmac

Any heavier riders have experiences to share on the Stallion build of these? I'm very interested based on all the glowing reviews.


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## Kenacycle

I've been riding my Ardennes for two and half months and have ridden many big rides during that time. They are awesome I love them very much. I am really a fan of the 23mm wide rim design as I think that really helps reducing the chance of pinch flats or flats you get when you hit potholes or rocks. Over the two months, many of my cycling friends got flats while I am still flat-free (knock on wood) and we are riding the same roads. 

The hubs of these Ardennes are super smooth and friction free. When I am coasting, I am often the fastest one amongst my group even though I am not the heaviest one.. I attribute this to the awesome hubs.

My next wheels will probably be the HED Jet C2, if not, I would buy the Ardennes again for sure.


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## Lookbiker

I just ordered stallion Ardennes for my Pro Machine. Should be here in a couple of weeks so I'll write a mini-review.


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## edorwart

Lookbiker said:


> I just ordered stallion Ardennes for my Pro Machine. Should be here in a couple of weeks so I'll write a mini-review.


I would love to know more. Can you give us a few specific on what the Stallion Build is while we wait for you to get your wheels?

Thank you in advance.

Erik


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## Lookbiker

About the stallion Ardennes. I weigh 185lbs (and dropping but I raced 35lbs lighter years ago). I ride on rough roads here in Maine so HED recommended the stallion build which is 24/28 14 gauge spokes rather than 18/24. About a 150gram increase in weight for the entire wheelset. 

I ordered some Conti 4000s tires for the Ardennes and will relegate the Mavic Ksyriums to my 2005 Look frame, which I'm slowly building up. The rep at HED said that 4000s tires work great with the Ardennes but a tad firmer than the Pro2s. I really doubt that I could tell the difference but Contis have been bombproof for me.


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## wankski

relegate?.. do hed make their own rim in the US? or is this sourced from asia? really wish a few companies will make some new rims for us to build up ourselves...


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## 585opti

Just found this thread. Have put these on both my road bikes. Greatest wheels I have ever owned. Can ride with 85 psi front and 90 in rear, smooth and great cornering (I am around 150lbs). Replaced the Mavic Ksyrium ES Premium Anniversary wheels on the Look and Fulcrum's on the Kuota (my winter bike). No comparison. Mavic can not touch the Hed's.


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## abracadabra

Nice set ups! Love that Kuota!


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## Dizzy812

*What's going on?*

OMFG first ride on Ardennes today - and I'm amazed!

Sure they're comfortable, and corner better than any wheel I've ridden. And sure they're as stiff as my dura-ace/op, way stiffer than DV46s or mavics.

But why are they so fast? These things rival the DV46s for holding speed. They spring forward when sprinting, but why do they roll so well?

I don't buy any aero benefits, and I never thought I could feel rolling resistance . . .

So what is it guys - help me out. What makes these wheels so fast?


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## Kenacycle

^^ ^^
Great bearings and they are light.

I love mine! And just ordered some HED JET 50's for my new bike.. Can't wait to try those


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## Dan Gerous

They have among the tightest tolerance for the bearing bores so they can spin spin spin even with regular bearings! I got myself a set a few days ago with ceramic bearings... I too got the bearing upgrade for free, paid 895$.

Mine came in a few grams above the claimed weight but not by that much. I put some new Vittoria Rubino Pros and they mounted easily by hand which is good. I also have the new style decals (two per sides, no white background) but they are kind of peeled off on the edges so I may take them off entirely... maybe it will drop back to the claimed weight. 

These wheels are a great value, they aren't too expensive for such a wheelset and comparing them with similarly priced wheels, they're clear winners!


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## Dizzy812

Oh, and the _sound_ - that old sing of tubulars!


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## danielberlinger

Has anyone made the Ardennes work with Zero Gravity brakes? Mine don't seem to spread wide enough (at least without finding some thinner holders and pads...


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## 585opti

danielberlinger said:


> Has anyone made the Ardennes work with Zero Gravity brakes? Mine don't seem to spread wide enough (at least without finding some thinner holders and pads...


Wish I could help out. I went with Mavic brakes.


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## Kenacycle

I had Zero Gravity brakes before and they just aren't designed to open up very much. Because of this, I had since changed back to Dura Ace.


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## danielberlinger

Yeah... so I sold my Zero Gravities and dropped SRAM Red's on my bike. The rear one prolly would've worked, the front one was really a no go (for me). And the rear would've been ultra finicky in alignment. Not worth it for me. The Reds are fine... did a hilly 16 miles today after getting it all straightened out... Love the Ardennes! The brakes are just fine. Me happy now.

Onward!


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## drc

*great deal'*



Dan Gerous said:


> I too got the bearing upgrade for free, paid 895$.


Where did you get the great deal? Direct from HED,  on-line retailer, LBS? I've been searching the web but nobody posts a price below MSRP.


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## kutscher

I am about to buy these, but noticed the new Hed Jet 4's

Seem to have the benefits of the ardennes with some more aero... Any comments, are they worth a few hundred more to decrease resistance??


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## rollin nolan

kutscher said:


> I am about to buy these, but noticed the new Hed Jet 4's
> 
> Seem to have the benefits of the ardennes with some more aero... Any comments, are they worth a few hundred more to decrease resistance??


What's the price tag on the Jet 4 / Jet 4 FR? The ad in RBA made me drool. Those are sweet looking wheels. 

Anyone know what the price is for the new Ardennes FR? HED's 'shopping' page isn't working for me.


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## niteschaos

*According to their website.......*



kutscher said:


> I am about to buy these, but noticed the new Hed Jet 4's
> 
> Seem to have the benefits of the ardennes with some more aero... Any comments, are they worth a few hundred more to decrease resistance??


If you are in still air when you ride then the Ardennes and the Jet 4 C2 have the same aero drag and the same rolling resistance (looking at the graph at the bottom of the pages for each wheel). It's up to you if you want to pay the price penalty for more performance in crosswinds.


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## kef3844

That's funny.


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## shachah7

I am interested in purchasing the HED ardenes. abit hard to get hold of them in oz. anyone know the best place to buy them online. cheers.


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## 585opti

shachah7 said:


> I am interested in purchasing the HED ardenes. abit hard to get hold of them in oz. anyone know the best place to buy them online. cheers.


If by OZ you mean the real OZ (Kansas) I got mine through a LBS in Kansas City and they took care of me. If you are talking about somewhere else then I defer to those who bought on line.


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## fidi1979

Where in Australia do you live?



shachah7 said:


> I am interested in purchasing the HED ardenes. abit hard to get hold of them in oz. anyone know the best place to buy them online. cheers.


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## mschol17

.....


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## Beekeeper

Has anyone been riding their Ardennes through the winter muck and salt etc? I'd be interested to know how the rims are holding up.


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## 585opti

Beekeeper said:


> Has anyone been riding their Ardennes through the winter muck and salt etc? I'd be interested to know how the rims are holding up.


Have two sets one on my winter bike / one on my summer bike. I have not taken it out in snow or slush but they have been exposed to road dust / light wet road spray contaminated with salt / beet juice / sand etc. Wipe it down after riding and all is good. Love them and keeping them. Putting them on my new Cinelli frame when it gets here this month. Will be the only non Italian part of the bike.


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## Creed

I rode them through the cross season, so they saw their share of mud dirt and rocks. The rims have been holding up well, I haven't had to true them up yet and they still look new. I have been happy with the wheels but I will say that the front wheel is a tad flexy, but I think I'm a little rough on them.


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## Beekeeper

Creed said:


> I rode them through the cross season, so they saw their share of mud dirt and rocks. The rims have been holding up well, I haven't had to true them up yet and they still look new. I have been happy with the wheels but I will say that the front wheel is a tad flexy, but I think I'm a little rough on them.



That sounds very promising, I'm looking in to getting a set of 32 hole Ardennes rims so I can have the width of the rim and it's associated benefits, but also the strength and durability of a traditional build, if that makes any sense. 

As the roads here are degenerating in to dirt tracks because of all the salt they used this winter it's good to know a set of Ardennes has been through a cross season!


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## Tecopa Red

Has anyone tried running 25mm tires on their Ardennes and, if so, has does it compare to the 23s? Thanks for any input.


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## 585opti

Tecopa Red said:


> Has anyone tried running 25mm tires on their Ardennes and, if so, has does it compare to the 23s? Thanks for any input.


Only have 25 mm on the rear. Using Conti Attack / Force tires. Great ride. BTW inflating at around 80-85 psi - (I am at around 148-150 lbs). Really smoothes out rough road surfaces. Great wheels.


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## rward325

Let's bring this back to life again. HED just released the Kermesse wheels. These are based on the same C2 extrusion as the Ardennes and the C2's. Theses wheels weigh in a little heavier than the Ardennes and the hubs are different. They also cost about $400.00 less! I just put these on my wife's Felt ZW3. She loves them and says she is noticeably quicker than the stock Mavic Opens that were on it. Don't get me wrong I love my Ardennes, they have an amazing feel to them that is hard to describe. But at $700.00 list for these wheels they are amazing deal.


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## mellowman

no, lets let this thread die. pretty tired of the infomercial.


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## rward325

mellowman said:


> no, lets let this thread die. pretty tired of the infomercial.


It's the Interwebz get used to the infomercials. Notice the part of what I posted that says I actually use the product? If your tired of it stop using the right mouse button to click on the thread.


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## DS1239622

Anyone with ride experience on the stallion build care to report? 

Anyone know where to get the Ardennes for less than MSRP?

Thanks!


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## rward325

Have been running the Stallions since early January. Have a little over 500 miles on them. Rock solid wheels with a great feel. Stiff as hell and great handling. No problems with truing or dish on wither wheel. May I also suggest you look a the new HED Kermeese. Just as solid but $400.00 cheaper.


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## DS1239622

Thanks for the info rward325. Did you ever get a chance to weigh the stallions? Im at 180lbs right now so Im on the fence about whether to go stallion or standard build.


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## Lookbiker

I've been riding the Adrennes (stallion build) since Sept 08. Seem very durable. A few extra spokes and grams are worth it for me (190lbs and lots of potholes here).


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## DS1239622

Thanks guys. Also I read in an earlier post in this thread that:



> they recommend running them with Pro Race or Open Corsa tyres only


Any truth to that?

Thanks again!


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## rward325

When I got them we weighed them and they were within 50g of advertised weight. They were weighed and no Cassette. At 180 you are right on the borderline of the recommended weight of the wheels. In my experience at my weight I can here a wheel creak as soon as I get out of the saddle if it is on the weak side. These wheel do not creak or squeak under my weight. I would still look a the Kermesse if money is an issue.


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## Lookbiker

I run Conti 4000s tires. No problem and HED told me that no brand is specifically recommended over the other.


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## Dan Gerous

Does anybody have some pdf or anything for the rear hub? Mine have a small amount of loose play (about 1-2mm at the rim) but as far as I know, there is no way to adjust the bearing preload...


----------



## DS1239622

Anyone have any photos of the '09s with the new decals?


----------



## rollin nolan

I asked my bike guy at the LBS (who I respect, great shop) what he thought about the Ardennes. He said that they hadn't seen a set of HED wheels in years because the ones they got way back when hand cheap free hubs. He suggested some Fulcrum Zero's instead. Anyway, I have to assume this old problem has been resolved. Especially since the reviews I've read say that the Ardennes has great hubs. It's hard to agrue with the cyclingnews review of "best clinchers ever". 

Anyway, would someone care to comment on the quality of the Sonic hubs?


----------



## Dan Gerous

My rear hub has play in it, I contacted Hed, they sent me a spacer telling me some hubs 'might' need it, put the spacer like they told me to, play is still there...

They're nice wheels on paper but it's annoying and they seem to be really cheaply assembled (even the decals on the rim were not opposed, they were put arbitrarily anywhere, not stuck properly)... They make my Ksyriums feel like much better wheels...


----------



## cervelo-van

Just got the HED Ardennes today on my new Kuota KOM. Will ride them for the first time tomorrow. Tires are Michelin Pro 3,

Been riding the HED Jet 4 C2 on my Cervelo RS for the last while, great wheels. Be interesting to compare them all to the Ardennes

This sport is expensive. I now have 3 bikes (Scott Cross my winter bike, Cervelo RS and Kuota KOM and three wheelsets for my Road Bikes (DT Swiss RR1450, HED Ardennes and HED Jet 4


----------



## DS1239622

Cervelo-Van- Any pics of the new wheels? First impressions?


----------



## cantride55

Great wheelset. Run Conti 4000's on them.
What psi does everyone else run on these? I've found between 85 and 90 works for me, whereas other wheels I'm at 100 -105 psi.


----------



## cervelo-van

Apparently I have the FR version: The FR has the upgraded carbon hub, titanium spokes and ceramic bearings.


----------



## badge118

*Pulled the trigger*

Well I pulled the trigger on getting these today.

Basically narrowed the field to these and the DT Swiss Mon Chasseral. I was originally looking at Mavic, Fulcrum and Campy but decided against them for a few reasons. First unless I went to near the bottom of the range I was looking at more than a little over a Grand. Second for that extra money I would spend I was also looking at special tools and proprietary spokes all the way around they would charge an arm and a leg for. I am a one wheel set kinda guy and was looking to replace my 5 year old AC Sprint 350's with the Sapim spoke upgrade (they will be demoted to "back up) and so I tend to lean towards more "basic" wheel construction and aluminum rims.

It was a close call between the two BUT I finally decided on the Heds because I liked the theory of more grip, all of the stellar reviews (both "professional" and "enthusiast"), Hed's reputation and to be honest the look of the wheels. I am a little concerned about the low front spoke count with "conventional" spokes, but if my basic engineering courses stuck I am hoping that the wider rim helps alieviate some of that issue and Hed makes the same claim anywho. The fact I am 5'10 and 165 lbs at the heaviest during the year I don't think it will be that big an issue and I don't race on the road I just like going long and fast while doing it ao I should only notice any stiffness issues when I am being sloppy on climbs or being an idiot on winding decents. 

Well once I get them and have a few rides on them (especially on decents) I'll post and update.


----------



## Kenacycle

I've been riding on my Ardennes for a year now. I truly love and trust them. The C2 23mm rim design is brilliant! I only had one flat tire with these wheels (during the whole year) and I genuinely belief it's due partly the tire (Pro 3 Race), but mostly because of the wider rim design. My tire profile is spread and thus the chance for pinch flatting is very much reduced. I had ridden over many potholes and even hitting small objects (rocks) without suffering from pinch flats; my tires simply bounce on them. These wheels are light and super easy to maintain. 

I love the C2 design so much I just purchased a set of HED Jet 4 with a deeper profile for my other bike.









If and when my Ardennes are damaged/worn out, I will not hesitate to purchase another set; I may even consider the flame rouge version.


----------



## MattSoutherden

kdub said:


> I love the C2 design so much I just purchased a set of HED Jet 4 with a deeper profile for my other bike.


And? How do they ride? 

I'm in total wheel buying 'analysis paralysis' at the moment.

I currently ride a set of DT Mon Chasserals on my Time, and I'm looking at some new wheels for the Cervelo RS that's just been dropped off by the courier.

I was originally looking at the Reynolds Attacks/Assaults, but I've started to get a bit jittery about the full carbon rims, what with the roads in/around London, and the good ol' British weather. Then I got a quote for some Edge 45s, which was silly money (for me). And now I'm leaning towards the Ardennes or Jet4 C2. I like the idea of the C2 rim for some more comfort (and apparently a little aero). But I'm not sure what the weight/aero trade-off would be with the Jet 4s.

FYI I'm 6'3, 178. I mostly ride alone or with a mate. Occasional sportives. Average 16-18 on sportives, 18-22ish on other rides.

Any insights greatly appreciated.

Matt.


----------



## cervelo-van

I decided to standardize on the HED Ardennes Flamme Rouge on both my bikes, this way I don't have to keep changing wheelsets. I liked the HED Jet 4 C2, but changing a flat on it was a pain, so I sold it to a triathlete and also sold my DT Swiss RR 1450. One of the bikes is a Cervelo RS

They ride beautifully. I did the Ride for Cancer from Vancouver to Seattle on them, 265 Kilometers, sunny first day, rain second day. Did have a flat on second day, changing it was a snap. 



MattSoutherden said:


> And? How do they ride?
> 
> I'm in total wheel buying 'analysis paralysis' at the moment.
> 
> I currently ride a set of DT Mon Chasserals on my Time, and I'm looking at some new wheels for the Cervelo RS that's just been dropped off by the courier.
> 
> I was originally looking at the Reynolds Attacks/Assaults, but I've started to get a bit jittery about the full carbon rims, what with the roads in/around London, and the good ol' British weather. Then I got a quote for some Edge 45s, which was silly money (for me). And now I'm leaning towards the Ardennes or Jet4 C2. I like the idea of the C2 rim for some more comfort (and apparently a little aero). But I'm not sure what the weight/aero trade-off would be with the Jet 4s.
> 
> FYI I'm 6'3, 178. I mostly ride alone or with a mate. Occasional sportives. Average 16-18 on sportives, 18-22ish on other rides.
> 
> Any insights greatly appreciated.
> 
> Matt.


----------



## MattSoutherden

cervelo-van said:


> I liked the HED Jet 4 C2, but changing a flat on it was a pain
> 
> ...
> 
> ...changing it was a snap.


How come the Jet was difficult but the Ardennes was easy? I thought they were effectively the same rim, but the Jet has a carbon fairing.


----------



## cervelo-van

I'm not sure if it was because of the depth of the rim, but it was very hard to take the tire off, and then to put it back on. 



How come the Jet was difficult but the Ardennes was easy? I thought they were effectively the same rim, but the Jet has a carbon fairing.


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## Jason Spaceman

I too ordered a set of HED Ardennes last night, for my Trek 5200. I ordered the stallion builds, since I'm a heavy guy.

What size of rim tape works best with the Ardennes? 17mm? 18mm?

Also, what kind of bearings come stock with the Ardennes? Stainless steel?


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## MattSoutherden

cervelo-van said:


> I'm not sure if it was because of the depth of the rim, but it was very hard to take the tire off, and then to put it back on.


Do you have different rim tape on them? Maybe the Jets have thicker tape?

Another question:

What do you think of the Flamme Rouge vs standards? It looks like most (if not all) of the weight saving is at the hubs, with the carbon shell and titanium skewers. Is the freehub body also titanium? Can you tell any real world difference with the ceramics?

Thanks again,
Matt.


----------



## MattSoutherden

Jason Spaceman said:


> Also, what kind of bearings come stock with the Ardennes? Stainless steel?


The regular Ardennes have stainless bearings, the Flamme Rouge have hybrid ceramics.


----------



## bradleyp

I just got a pair. 1 team training ride in so far. I like 'em. For some reason, they feel like a deeper-depth wheel than they are - can't really explain it. They also make a bit of that Zipp "hummmmmm" sound when they are wound up. Cornering is very different, but very confident feeling.

The BEST part:

A wheel that comes counter-balanced from the factory! YEAH! 

Front wheel just spins for like 10 minutes. Then, instead of settling into that back-and-forth rocking due to the weight of the valve stem, in just gently spins to a stop... Very cool.


----------



## Dan Gerous

I still haven't figured out my rear hub side play and Hed haven't been too helpful... I'm back on old Ksyriums SL.


----------



## Jason Spaceman

Well my HED Ardennes stallions have arrived. I'm picking them up at the post office after work. 

I've never put rim tape on a wheel before. Is is just a simple task of lining up the hole on the tape with the valve hole on the rim and then slowly turning the wheel, making sure that the tape is sticking?


----------



## DS1239622

That post is worthless without pics.


----------



## Keith A

Jason Spaceman said:


> Well my HED Ardennes stallions have arrived. I'm picking them up at the post office after work.
> 
> I've never put rim tape on a wheel before. Is is just a simple task of lining up the hole on the tape with the valve hole on the rim and then slowly turning the wheel, making sure that the tape is sticking?


Pretty much, but here is a detailed description of how to do this.

1. Take your built-up wheel with the tire removed and clean the rim thoroughly. Know how wide the wheel cavity is. If you don't know, measure it with calipers. Purchase bicycle rim tape designed for your wheel's width.

2. Set the end of the rim tape within the wheel's cavity carefully. Line up the tube valve hole with the hole in the rim tape and have the adhesive side down. Be certain that it's aligned and straight along the wall and covers the spoke ends entirely.

3. Begin pulling the bicycle rim tape along the rim. Make sure that it is tight enough; keep it fairly snug so that there's a slight stretch to it as you unravel it, but not so tight that you strain to pull it around the rim.

4. Keep pulling the tape around, making sure that it fits within the wheel cavity snugly. Once you reach the beginning point again, don't simply overlap the ends of the rim tape. Take the excess and cut it precisely so it fits perfectly against the beginning of the tape.

5. Run your fingers over the now-installed bicycle rim tape to make sure that it's in firmly and won't shift. Ensure it can't creep up the bead of the tire.

One of the keys will be getting the correct sized rim tape since these wheels have a wider rim than average. I personally prefer the Velox rim tape.


----------



## Jason Spaceman

Here are a couple pics of my wheels. Sorry for the blurriness, but my digital camera is kind of old.

I'll mount them on my bike tomorrow, got to finish waxing my car today, .


----------



## fmarrs3

I've been racing on the jet C2 and new disk this year on my TT bike. I'm definitely a believer in the wider rim design. With some Vittoria EVO CX II's they ride as comfortably as tubulars, but seemingly more efficiently. As an engineer, this rim design makes sense theoretically and seems to work in practice. I'm saving my pennies for a set of the Ardennes.


----------



## Jason Spaceman

I put some Velox 19mm rim tape on the Ardennes this evening. It went on OK, although it didn't seem to stick all that well. I'm hoping that once the tube and tire are on then it will stick to the rim better and stay put.


----------



## Kenacycle

Yes the Velox tape will stick on hard once the tube expands between the tire and the tape.
Your pic is blurry because you back focused on the cushion of the chair instead of the rims.


----------



## DS1239622

Thanks for the pics Jason, looks great. Youll have to post some more pics and a ride impression once you get them mounted.


----------



## rruff

kdub said:


> The C2 23mm rim design is brilliant! I only had one flat tire with these wheels (during the whole year) and I genuinely belief it's due partly the tire (Pro 3 Race), but mostly because of the wider rim design. My tire profile is spread and thus the chance for pinch flatting is very much reduced. I had ridden over many potholes and even hitting small objects (rocks) without suffering from pinch flats; my tires simply bounce on them. These wheels are light and super easy to maintain.


If a 23mm rim provides this magic with a 23mm tire, then why doesn't a 20mm rim provide this same magic with a 20mm tire?


----------



## MattSoutherden

rruff said:


> If a 23mm rim provides this magic with a 23mm tire, then why doesn't a 20mm rim provide this same magic with a 20mm tire?


20c on a 19/20 rim is the baseline. 23c on a 19mm provides some improvements as there's more air, but doesn't fully make the best of the larger tyre. A wider rim does.

Even hamstrung on a 19mm rim, a 23c has 15% more volume (ish - not taking into account the volume in the rim). So a 20c on a 19/20 _does_ do the same magic - it's just more than cancelled out by the extra volume of the 23.


----------



## rruff

But if so many wonderful things happen when you match the rim and tire width, then I wouldn't think that a 15% difference in dimension (not volume, which is ~30%) would matter that much... especially for riders who aren't that large. Yet 20mm tires are universally reviled by people who use <20mm rims. So something doesn't make sense here.

The idea that shorter-stiffer sidewalls improve handling and comfort and rolling resistance all at the same time seems highly suspect as well.


----------



## Dan Gerous

The comfort bonus of the wider rim is due to the bigger volume lower pressure, not by matching tire and rim width.


----------



## rruff

Dan Gerous said:


> The comfort bonus of the wider rim is due to the bigger volume lower pressure, not by matching tire and rim width.


The volume difference is trivial with the same tire (~4%)... and if that was the case, then why not use 25s or 28s... or 32s or...


----------



## Dan Gerous

Then you lose some of the areo advantage and you add more weight... But, I agree with you the difference is quite minimal (although you could argue, 4% that's like the difference between riding the tires at 100psi vs 104psi), not everyone notices. I bought mine because I had a good deal, a good price for a light clincher wheel, not for the aerodynamics or comfort. I should have checked deeper because the no bearing adjustability is kind of a bummer, especially when there is play in the rear hub.


----------



## rruff

If this was a 30mm deep rim I'd be onboard with the aero, but I'm not so sure at 24mm deep.


----------



## Jason Spaceman

Does anyone know what rim tape width HED recommends for the Ardennes? I currently have 19mm Velox cloth tape in mine. I had a flat on the rear wheel today and noticed, after I took the tire off, that the rim tape had shifted inside the wheel, exposing a spoke hole and causing the flat. Should I use something wider? I think the widest stuff Velox makes is 22mm.

BTW, here is another pic of my bike with the Ardennes on them.


----------



## dekindy

Jason Spaceman said:


> Does anyone know what rim tape width HED recommends for the Ardennes? I currently have 19mm Velox cloth tape in mine. I had a flat on the rear wheel today and noticed, after I took the tire off, that the rim tape had shifted inside the wheel, exposing a spoke hole and causing the flat. Should I use something wider? I think the widest stuff Velox makes is 22mm.
> 
> BTW, here is another pic of my bike with the Ardennes on them.


My buddy just bought a set of Ardennes. In my research on another forum it was indicated that a guy that used 19mm tape flatted the front and back within 20 miles using 19mm Velox. Get the 22mm.:thumbsup:


----------



## Tecopa Red

I'm picking up my Ardennes later this week. Can't wait to try them out. My LBS says the steel bearings feel very smooth. I'm going to try the Velo Plugs instead of rim tape and use a new set of Conti 4000S tires with the Maxxis lightweight tubes (67g). Will post my impressions in a week or so.


----------



## Tecopa Red

Picked up my Ardennes yesterday and unfortunately the Velo Plugs do not work in place of rim tape. They're designed for 8mm holes and the ones on the Ardennes are bigger. Ended up using Ritchey 18mm wide tape which seems to cover the holes OK but I may switch to the 22mm Velox just for peace of mind. The Ritchey tape has been very reliable on my other wheels. But I wanted to get in a short ride so I used what was at hand. The wheels seem very nice. The ride can only be described as plush. The tires are 700x23 Conti 4000s and I'm comparing to a set of Easton Circuits with 700x25 Contis which I think are very comfortable. I'm running 90psi front and 100 rear with the Circuits and 90 front and rear on the Ardennes. The Ardennes seemed to wind up quickly on the flats and felt lively on the short hills I did. One thing I don't like is the freehub noise. They're somewhere between the Circuits, absolutely quiet, and a set of Cane Creeks which almost require earplugs  Oh well, my hearing is starting to go anyway and if they help me go faster who cares what they sound like. Can't wait to try these on a group ride. Will post when I have more miles on them.


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## Dizzy812

I cut small strips of e tape to hold the veloplugs in place. I do this even on wheelsets that the plugs seat well. Don't want to fuss with plugs falling out if I flat . . .


----------



## wankski

veloplugs now come in 8.5mm for wider holes btw


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## lalonauta

I've got a set with <500 miles for sale in the classifieds section. Here's my shameless plug:

http://classifieds.roadbikereview.com/showproduct.php?product=17092


----------



## prsherrera

hi guys, first post.

does the ardennes go ok with the kcnc cb-1 caliper set?

anyone?


----------



## rward325

There should be no issues with any of the KCNC brakes. I am using Feathers and several friends are using the KCNC's. There was never an issue with fitting.


----------



## SoulCycleNB

*Does 51 grams make a differance?*

Let's wake this conversation up again! 

Has anyone been able to compare the Ardennes to the C2 Bastogne's? The only difference between the two is 51 grams resulting from the use of Scandium on the rims of the Ardennes. I was wondering if in anyone thinks you could feel any difference in 51 grams or rotating weight? It's the $200 question.


----------



## niteschaos

SoulCycleNB said:


> Let's wake this conversation up again!
> 
> Has anyone been able to compare the Ardennes to the C2 Bastogne's? The only difference between the two is 51 grams resulting from the use of Scandium on the rims of the Ardennes. I was wondering if in anyone thinks you could feel any difference in 51 grams or rotating weight? It's the $200 question.


No, I don't think you'll feel 51g difference.


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## rward325

I ride the Ardennes(Stallion) and my girlfriend rides the Kermesse. There is only a $100 difference between the Kermesse and the Bastogne. That should even make it more confusing for you. After riding the Kermesse for a year my girlfriend has told me they were the single best upgrade I have made on her bike. I love the Ardennes, my guess is you can't go wrong with the Bastogne!


----------



## Dan Gerous

I think there might be a typo on Hed's website, it lists weights as 51gr heavier on the front only, same weight for the rear wheel... Shouldn't it be 51gr on each wheel? 51gr per rim could be noticable...


----------



## SoulCycleNB

I'll ask HED. Will get back with you asap.


----------



## SoulCycleNB

*Does 51 grams make a differance?*

Let's wake this conversation up again! 

Has anyone been able to compare the Ardennes to the C2 Bastogne's? The only difference between the two is 51 grams resulting from the use of Scandium on the rims of the Ardennes. I was wondering if in anyone thinks you could feel any difference in 51 grams or rotating weight? It's the $200 question.


----------



## rward325

Here are the weights for the 3 wheel sets from the HED site. I have ridden the Ardennes and the Kermesse quite a lot. There is a definite difference here that is noticeable to me. I ride the Ardennes Stallion so they are a little heavier than listed but not by much. So that puts me at 100g up front and 30g in the rear. From my POV 130g is noticeable just in how my bike rides from a stop and pedaling on the flat. I really don't see it when I am climbing or when going downhill. Handling is neutral between the two sets of wheels as far as I am concerned, this is my opinion only as I am not a guy that hammers through the turns such.

Ardennes
Front: 600
Rear: 830
Total: 1430

Bastogne
Front: 651
Rear: 830
Total: 1481

Kermesse
Front: 710
Rear: 860
Total: 1570


----------



## MJCBH

*Sweeeet*

Got my Ardennes 2 weeks ago and put on about 150 miles so far. Seems like I love them more each time I ride them. Great ride, seems to spin up fast and accelerates and handles nicely. I keep thinking that if I like the way these ride, the Jets and other aero wheels must be pretty sweet too. May just be in my mind but the Ardennes seem faster than my Flashpoint FP60 aero wheels and now I may just have to sell all my spare wheels,including the Flashpoints, to now buy a set of Jet6's (or Jet 6/9 combo) fot TT's and tri's. It's nice to feel like I've found a lightweight, aero, comfortable set of wheels that I can use to train and race with (and save the pre-race stress of "do I go more aero but sacrifice weight?").


----------



## SoulCycleNB

Dan Gerous said:


> I think there might be a typo on Hed's website, it lists weights as 51gr heavier on the front only, same weight for the rear wheel... Shouldn't it be 51gr on each wheel? 51gr per rim could be noticable...



Here is what HED said about the weight difference between the Ardennes and the Bastognes copied from the email they sent me today: 

*The website is wrong. Rim and spoke weight account for the difference and it is spread between both wheels. 
*
So...the total weight difference is correct. 51 grams difference total for the wheelset. Approxamitly 25 grams per wheel. Is that worth $200?! I'm not sure.


----------



## SoulCycleNB

I would love to hear some feedback from people who've put substantial miles and time on their Ardennes. I would love to see if they are holding up and if there are any issues found with these wheels. They are no. 1 on my list. They seem to be the perfect balance between performance/ durability and cush-ness.


----------



## rward325

SoulCycleNB said:


> I would love to hear some feedback from people who've put substantial miles and time on their Ardennes. I would love to see if they are holding up and if there are any issues found with these wheels. They are no. 1 on my list. They seem to be the perfect balance between performance/ durability and cush-ness.


I have over 2500 miles on my set of Ardennes. I have never had a problem with the wheels. I have ridden over some pretty crappy roads on them as well. As a number of my friends ride these wheels also I have seen some front wheels that develop a squeak or creak in them. HED as fixed these problems quickly for the 2 people I know of having this problem. My wheels have never been out of true in the time I have ridden them. Braking surfaces do show some signs of wear at this point and I regularly lean by brake pads of debris. Bearings still roll as smoothly as the day I bought them and have never overtightened the skewers on them so they have kept well. 

Hope this helps.


----------



## fallzboater

Anyone know if they will sell the rims only? The rims sound good, but I'm way more interested in building the wheels myself on quality hubs, for less money (assuming the rims are < $100 each). I also wouldn't lace radially, but that's mostly personal preference.


----------



## Ligero

fallzboater said:


> Anyone know if they will sell the rims only? The rims sound good, but I'm way more interested in building the wheels myself on quality hubs, for less money (assuming the rims are < $100 each). I also wouldn't lace radially, but that's mostly personal preference.


You can get the rims by themselves now. I have done a couple builds with them and really like them. The retail I believe is $125 each for the aluminum ones and $200 each for the scandium ones.


----------



## fallzboater

Ligero said:


> You can get the rims by themselves now. I have done a couple builds with them and really like them. The retail I believe is $125 each for the aluminum ones and $200 each for the scandium ones.


That's pretty darn pricey. Maybe I'll stick with Kinlin and Velocity, but I like the idea of the width. You could still build them up with CK or other nice hubs for less than what they want for their wheels, though.


----------



## Tecopa Red

I have a set of Ardennes and the Hed hubs seem pretty good to me. They do spin forever. The rear is noisy when coasting but that may wear in a bit and quiet down. I bought the wheels late last fall and haven't really had a chance to put them through their paces but from the riding I have done I'd say the wheels are excellent. Worth the price? Maybe, maybe not but I was hooked on the wide rim.


----------



## skepticman

This could be an option.

http://velocityusa.blogspot.com/2010/01/hello-proto.html

"After all of the prototype testing is finished, the A23 wheel set will be available Spring of 2010. Coming in at around 1400 grams a set and at a price point that is definitely going to blow your socks off, we are confident that it will be the best in it's class."


----------



## 4cmd3

I saw Glory Cycles selling the rims at $100 each...
(http://www.glorycycles.com/hedbec2rim.html)

Also, Handspun wheels is selling these wheels in two options: DT 240 hubs and some basic HED hubs ("HED Novembre"). They should be available to anyone connected to QBP
http://handspunwheels.com/products/

PS. I have no affiliation with any of these companies, nor have I tried these rims/hubs/etc.


----------



## fallzboater

skepticman said:


> This could be an option.
> 
> http://velocityusa.blogspot.com/2010/01/hello-proto.html
> 
> "After all of the prototype testing is finished, the A23 wheel set will be available Spring of 2010. Coming in at around 1400 grams a set and at a price point that is definitely going to blow your socks off, we are confident that it will be the best in it's class."


I'm not sure I buy the "even tension" and "symmetric wheel" claims with their hub (it'd be easy to check with the flange dimensions and Spocalc), but I would like to try those rims. I think they'd be excellent with all the climbing, and rough roads, we have here. 

Anyone using the Ardennes or A23s with Stan's tape and Hutchinson tubeless tires? That seems like it'd be a fantastic setup for rough roads and descending, especially for bigger riders.


----------



## rruff

An option for you "wide rim" aficionados... C-4 is making a 22mm wide rim that I think is ~24mm tall based on the ERD. So similar to a Hed rim, though 1mm narrower... which in my opinion is closer to where you want it to be if you are using 23mm tires. It weighs 465g and retails for $70.


----------



## Ligero

fallzboater said:


> I'm not sure I buy the "even tension" and "symmetric wheel" claims with their hub (it'd be easy to check with the flange dimensions and Spocalc), but I would like to try those rims.


I am glad someone else noticed that besides me. In order for that hub to have balanced tension it would need to have VERY narrow flange spacing with it doesn't appear to have. Even AC hubs which are the narrowest hubs on the market don't have balanced tensions. 



rruff said:


> An option for you "wide rim" aficionados... C-4 is making a 22mm wide rim that I think is ~24mm tall based on the ERD. So similar to a Hed rim, though 1mm narrower... which in my opinion is closer to where you want it to be if you are using 23mm tires. It weighs 465g and retails for $70.


I am riding a pair of those rims now and so far I like them.


----------



## akf757

*Good wheels!*

Based on what I have read... I bought a pair for my crit bike but finances forces me to sell them before I even got to mount them. I listed them in the classifieds, in case anyone wants to save some $$$
http://classifieds.roadbikereview.com/showproduct.php?product=19213


----------



## teleguy57

*Troy/Ron/others insights into comparing C4 Osprey, Hed Belgian, Kinlin rims?*

Troy, looks like you're riding all of them and Ron, you've weighed in as well. How would you characterize the differences among them, and how do you help people think through what's the best option for them as you do builds for folks?


----------



## rruff

Call me a "wide rim skeptic". Way too much unsubstantiated hype for me, which I've attempted to dissect earlier in this thread and elsewhere. If you've been around the bike biz for a few years (or decades) you've seen a lot of fads come and go, and many of the ones that stay are a minor improvement if any. Some that stay are actually worse, but they still fill a marketing niche. It isn't like wider rims are a new idea or anything... there has just been a big marketing push for them lately. The claims of greater comfort, better rolling resistance, better cornering, better pinch flat resistance, better aero... etc... are highly dubious. 

I'm not running wide rims... in fact my Kinlin XR200s are exceptionally narrow at ~18.5mm. I run 23mm tires and they work great on high speed switchback descents... ie there is nothing weird going on with the wheels or tires that needs to be solved. 

But... I certainly don't think there is anything *wrong* with a wide rim either, if you are running 23+mm tires (and nearly everyone does). Frankly I think the "sweet spot" for a 23mm tire is in the 21-22mm width range... but that is mostly for aerodynamics, and *only* if the rim is also deep enough and shaped to deliver a decent aero benefit. That would be somewhere around 25+ mm deep, IMO... based on all the aero tests I've seen. I think the Zipp 101 wheel has an excellent rim for aero while using a 23+mm tire... unfortunately, they don't sell just the rims. But on the other hand *if* you really care about aero (like TTs and such), a narrow and deep rim with a narrow tire will be faster.

The only real downside to a wider rim is that they weigh more, all else being equal.


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## jmm5360

*Wide rim vs. tubeless*

Since both seem to advertise running at a lower PSI which is supposed to help comfort and grip to the road, I'm wondering if anyone can compare the wider rim feel to that of a tubeless wheel?

I'm going through weelset analysis paralysis and thought I'd narrowed my choices down to Dura-Ace vs. Fulcrum Zeros... but now this wider rim thing has me thinking twice.


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## Tecopa Red

I have the Ardennes and I really like them but can't compare them to tubeless. I hear that Velocity is coming out with a 23mm wide wheelset this spring at 1400g. No price yet but Velocity says the price will knock your socks off.


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## supercrank

jmm5360 said:


> Since both seem to advertise running at a lower PSI which is supposed to help comfort and grip to the road, I'm wondering if anyone can compare the wider rim feel to that of a tubeless wheel?
> 
> I'm going through weelset analysis paralysis and thought I'd narrowed my choices down to Dura-Ace vs. Fulcrum Zeros... but now this wider rim thing has me thinking twice.


I've ridden the Ardennes and the Dura-Ace 7850 tubeless wheels. The ride of the Ardennes was nice, but the wheels did not seem noticeably better than the Dura-Ace wheels (which have a 21mm wide rim) with the same clincher tire. I ended up getting the Shimano wheels due to the superiority of the hubs as well as the tubeless compatibility.

In terms of the ride of the tubeless Hutchinsons, I'm not entirely sold. I actually prefer the ride of a good clincher tire (Michelin PR3 and Vittoria CX 320tpi) with latex tubes to the tubeless Fusion 2s. IMHO, the only advantage of the Hutchinsons seems to be durability, and slower leakage of tire pressure.


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## johnroth26

rollin nolan said:


> Has anyone tried the new HED Ardennes wheelset yet? Their claim of the benefits of a wider rim is intriguing. It seems like a pretty good wheel with light weight, good design, good looks, etc. What do you think? What do you think of HED wheels in general.


I had a 24h and 28h Belgium C2 rim set built up on DT Swiss 240s hubs and SAPIM CX-Ray black spokes. Wheelset weight is about 1500g. This wheelset replaced a set of Mavic Ksyrium Elite's. 
The three things I noticed most about these wheels are:

1) They provide a more comfortable ride. The shape of the contact patch is actually rounder and slightly larger. In addition, the sidewall is able to support the weight of the rider/bike better given that the tire (700 x 23) and wheel width (23mm) match exactly.

2) Corning seems more controlled and sure-footed. Sidewall doesn't seem to rollover as much on high speed corners. This is probably related to the contact patch and sidewall characteristics mentioned in #1 above. 

3) Rolling resistance is reduced. Freewheeling down hills results in noticeably higher speed when compared to the Mavic's. In addition, climbing hills I used to climb in my 23 cog I now am able to climb in my 21 cog. Note: I am using the same tires (brand / size) and same air pressure. Given the wider rims (23mm), these wheels have more air volume which I believe partially explains the reduced rolling resistance. The HED website claims an 18% reduction and also states that lower air pressures can be used but no guideline is mentioned. They reference a white paper regarding rolling resistance. However, it does not yet exist after this rim being available for several years. I called HED tech support to get their recommendation on air pressure given my weight. However, they were very vague and said I should go bu what is on the tire sidewall!!!

All in all, I'm very happy with the rims. However, HED support leaves something to be desired!


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## SoulCycleNB

I got them two weeks ago. So far I love them. They are what they have been said to be by both HED and forums. As far as HED's costumer service, I have been very very impressed. I never have to wait more than 24 hours before getting a response and I have gotten all questions answered. I recommend these wheels for sure.


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## johnroth26

SoulCycleNB said:


> I got them two weeks ago. So far I love them. They are what they have been said to be by both HED and forums. As far as HED's costumer service, I have been very very impressed. I never have to wait more than 24 hours before getting a response and I have gotten all questions answered. I recommend these wheels for sure.


SoulCycleNB, did you reduce your air pressure or keep it the same?


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## Jose Roubaix

I currently ride a 2010 Mavic Elite wheelset. While I am content with them, I am getting the aerodynamic itch. Can anyone tell me there comparison between the Hed Ardennes to the Mavic Cosmic Carbone Sl as these are the two wheels I would like to upgrade to? Are there any differences at higher speeds? My group rides are usually between 24-28 mph.


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## cantride55

I have had a pair of Ardennes for well over ayear. 6 or 7000 km.s The rear was loud, I lubed it and now silent. I have a pair of Bastognes as well.with about 3000 kms on them There is very little difference between them until I corner. The Ardennes seem to hold the line better. Either set are great. I ride the Ardennes more because they feel better cornering and give a little less road feedback. I also ride Flashpoint 60`s. I have not found that the Ardennes carry the speed as well as the deep rimmed Flashpoints. Just my opinion. Hed wheelsets are a good buy, I would buy them again (all things considered)


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## skepticman

Jose Roubaix said:


> I currently ride a 2010 Mavic Elite wheelset. While I am content with them, I am getting the aerodynamic itch. Can anyone tell me there comparison between the Hed Ardennes to the Mavic Cosmic Carbone Sl as these are the two wheels I would like to upgrade to? Are there any differences at higher speeds? My group rides are usually between 24-28 mph.


Not sure why you're comparing a shallow 24mm aluminum Ardennes to a 52mm carbon Cosmic aero wheel. You should be comparing the HED Jet 4 or 6 to the Cosmic.

I've ridden both the Cosmic and Jet, and the Cosmic is a stiffer feeling and harsher riding wheel. They both "feel" like fast aero wheels. The HED hubs are probably better quality. The main advantage of the HEDs for me is the wide rim lets me run as low as 80psi for a way more comfortable ride on rough roads.


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## thedog

I have put many miles on the HED Ardennes (regular HED hub, not Flamme Rouge) and also the Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL. I can feel the weight difference on steeper climbs, the Ardennes around sub 1400g or so, and the Cosmic Carbones around 1750 I think? That said, the Ardennes are a great all-around wheel and will do fine at 24-28 mph in a group ride. There really doesn't seem to be a huge noticable aero difference best I can tell. Not impacted by crosswinds whatsoever. The Mavics...a different story in the windy canyons I often ride. Hope this helps.


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## Jose Roubaix

Thanks guys for all your responses. I do not have a complaint btw. I simply want a faster wheel set and am questioning if there is a big difference between the Hed Ardennes and a deep rim wheel set like a the Mavic Carbone.


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