# Toe pointing downward while pedaling.



## itsmichael (Jan 28, 2004)

I've noticed that when I pedal, my toe points downward after I go over the top. Over a period of time, and, particularly on hills, my calves tend to cramp up a little due to constantly being tight from the downward pointing tendancy of my foot (imagine standing tiptoe and your calf balls up.) I've tried fiddling with the seatpost, but I can't seem to find a comfortable position. Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong and if there is some solution to fix this. I take all recommendations. 
Much appreciated.


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## mtnbikenc1979 (Feb 8, 2004)

*I use to have the same problem*



itsmichael said:


> I've noticed that when I pedal, my toe points downward after I go over the top. Over a period of time, and, particularly on hills, my calves tend to cramp up a little due to constantly being tight from the downward pointing tendancy of my foot (imagine standing tiptoe and your calf balls up.) I've tried fiddling with the seatpost, but I can't seem to find a comfortable position. Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong and if there is some solution to fix this. I take all recommendations.
> Much appreciated.


My friends told me I need to ride with my feet being as flat as I could get them. That seemed to help out a lot. I'm still new at this myself and am still learning from all the great people on this web site. Maybe they could help you out!........Justin


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## Parisian (Feb 8, 2004)

*Some Quick Advice*



mtnbikenc1979 said:


> My friends told me I need to ride with my feet being as flat as I could get them. That seemed to help out a lot. I'm still new at this myself and am still learning from all the great people on this web site. Maybe they could help you out!........Justin


It is possible that your seat is simply too high. If you don't think it is, try this. To counter the natural downard angle of your toes, try pedaling as if you are doing so with your heels. By doing the polar opposite pedal stroke, hopefully it will become easier to adjust to the proper "as level as possible" stroke that we all strive for. Give it time. Hope this helps.
Ciao!


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## itsmichael (Jan 28, 2004)

I'm going to check out the height and give that a try.
Thanks!


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## t5rguy (Jul 4, 2003)

*this issue is called 'ankling'*

I believe there is a little bit more to it than just saddle height, although that surely is important. The pedalling technique I am talking about, is called 'ankling'. A very good description + animation is found in this link:

http://www.cranklength.info/animation/ankling.htm

Hope this helps!


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## Just Mike (Feb 15, 2004)

You know, that just might be your physiology or the way it works best for you. Jacques Anquetil rode that way his whole career. In fact, when my dad taught me to ride, he stressed that I should point my toes downward, like Anquetil. "Point your toes! Point your toes!" ... I still ride that way.


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## RemingtonShowdown (Feb 4, 2004)

You might move your cleats back a bit, under the ball of your foot. I found that when my cleats were too far forward I was using my calves much more resulting in soreness.


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

Same here. The cramps at the beginning of the season were absolutely debilitating. I drank alot more water, had longer warmups, and went easy in the base period. Moved my cleats back 2-3 mm and my seat is already in a good low position.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*animation doesn't seem to work...*

I couldn't get the animation to work. Is there a trick to it?


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## t5rguy (Jul 4, 2003)

*re: animation ...*

Ideally you should be on your (stationary) bike while viewing this site, then it will all fall into place. Seriously, it works when I click the link; besides that, I have no idea.


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

C-40 said:


> I couldn't get the animation to work. Is there a trick to it?


If you're using IE you might not have your Microsoft VM - JIT compiler enabled. Check the Internet Options - Advanced tab and scroll down the option list.


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## Juanmoretime (Nov 24, 2001)

It could just be your natural style of pedaling. I too pedal toes down and always have. I do ride with a pretty high saddle but if I go lower it bothers my knees. I have found this to be my natural pedaling style and have been riding like this for over thirty years. I usually will stand and stretch my calves on the bike frequently while on longer rides. I also will get some bad calf cramping, occasional, when I really hammer on the bike in a duathlon.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*already enabled...*



divve said:


> If you're using IE you might not have your Microsoft VM - JIT compiler enabled. Check the Internet Options - Advanced tab and scroll down the option list.


Tried that and it was already enabled.


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## rufus (Feb 3, 2004)

i can't pedal toes down. i have a bad right knee, and whenever i begin pedalling with toes pointed a bit downward, not correctly ankling, i get a pretty good twinge in the knee. so i've got a built in reminder to maintain good form.


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

In the Internet Options - Security tab, do you perhaps have the slider set to high? Set it one level lower and IE should allow it to run the script.


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## Spinfinity (Feb 3, 2004)

*Toe pointing is ok. Cramping calves aren't.*

Sit with your crank arms parallel to the seat tube. Can you reach the bottom pedal with your heels without rocking your hips or leaning to that side? You should be able to.

You may also try moving your seat back a little which, for me, makes toe pointing feel less natural.


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## jtferraro (Jun 28, 2002)

C-40 said:


> I couldn't get the animation to work. Is there a trick to it?


You might just need to wait a bit longer (the animation starts jumpy, initially, but then the cadence smoothens).


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## lc21998 (Oct 17, 2002)

*Doesn't matter - so long as you're consistent*

I've read that toes up or down don't make a difference so long as they remain that way throughout the pedal stroke.


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## ET_SoCal (Jul 1, 2003)

*My 2 cents*

All good replies, for me I noticed that I squish into the "seat" more when I lower my ankles.
Riding toe down feels more powerful and feels more correct when at speed & going DH, but when climbing and grinding heel down is much better...


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*While your dad said "point your toes"*

Most coaches would say "get your heels down." There is a certain amount of individual physiology in this, but keeping the heels down is the generally recommended approach. In practice, few can keep their heels down all the way around, but for most of us, attempting to do this improves the pedal stroke.


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## itsmichael (Jan 28, 2004)

That's an awsome animation. Thanks!


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## itsmichael (Jan 28, 2004)

Perhaps I'm an anatomical Anquetil-like anomaly! That's something to consider as well.


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## itsmichael (Jan 28, 2004)

RemingtonShowdown said:


> You might move your cleats back a bit, under the ball of your foot. I found that when my cleats were too far forward I was using my calves much more resulting in soreness.



Good suggestion, I'm going to give this a try.


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## CritLover (Aug 3, 2002)

*It may not be a problem*

My coach has spent the better part of the last four months making my pedaling more efficient, which included pedaling with my toes pointing downwards (I think I've finally got it!). The position that he is trying to achieve maintains the ankle in an upright tilted position all the way around the pedal stroke, but the angle of the toe point is not that extreme (pointed at 4 on a clock). 

It took my calf muscles, ankles, tendons, etc. a 3 good months to adapt, and since I always pedaled flatfooted before, it felt very odd. I didn't really believe him that it was useful, but he told me to go home and watch some pro races. After watching a bunch of TDF stages, I was convinced. Almost everyone pedals with their ankles higher than their toes, although some were very extreme and some were more slight like mine (and you can't tell in photos because it doesn't reflect the full motion).

Now, I'm not saying what it exactly it does, but now that I've learned to pedal much more efficiently, it does feel better. So perhaps, the problem lies somewhere else, like cleat or saddle positioning, or maybe you need to stretch those areas more. Just some ideas to consider. 

Good luck!


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## dnc (Feb 8, 2003)

*toes down pedaling*



Juanmoretime said:


> It could just be your natural style of pedaling. I too pedal toes down and always have. I do ride with a pretty high saddle but if I go lower it bothers my knees. I have found this to be my natural pedaling style and have been riding like this for over thirty years. I usually will stand and stretch my calves on the bike frequently while on longer rides. I also will get some bad calf cramping, occasional, when I really hammer on the bike in a duathlon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Ricky2 (Apr 7, 2004)

Lance Armstrong is a toe down pointer.


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## CLTRD (May 3, 2004)

if it's hampering your riding, try lowering your seat a tiny bit, or moving it back on the rails


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