# Shimagnolo



## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

After the switch from Dura Ace to Record/Super Record I am more than happy.

I like my new road bikes setup, very pleased overall.

Now the problem is my commuter.

it is a commuter fully equiped for all year/all weather conditions, based on a Cyclocross frameset and with full Shimano 105 geared as 48/38/28 12-27

The bike still performs flawlessly but I find myself often reaching for the thumb shifter which is indeed not there 

so I have been contemplating to migrate it to Campagnolo, maybe a group composed of Centaur shifters and Campagnolo Comp drivetrain.

The problem is that the Comp crankset only come in 170 and 175 and I use a 172.5 and the second problem is that the lowest middle ring is a 39 and not a 38. That wouldn't be a problem, maybe we could go 50/39/28 ( so 11 teeth steps instead of 10 ) and a larger cassette, let's say a 12-29. Problem there is that 135bcd rings are not so easy to find cheap.


But another posibility could be just to swap the 105 Shifters by the Centaur ones and setup an Ambrosio cassette on the existing 105/Mavic A319 wheels.

would that work ? have somebody done it ? or the shimano derailers have a different geometry/spring tension that would negate this setup ?

I could get Centaur or Veloce 10 speed shifters for a quite good price now, but I'd like some opinions before I go into that direction or even to go for a full campy migration.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Maybe stating the obvious: Campagnolo ergolevers are not compatible with Shimano rear mechs. Big difference in cable pull.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

kbwh said:


> Maybe stating the obvious: Campagnolo ergolevers are not compatible with Shimano rear mechs. Big difference in cable pull.


He's planning on using Ambrosio cassette: Shimano splined, Campag spaced.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

yes, I do have an Ambrosio 12-28 that works perfect with my Record 10 C-40


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Ok, but that's with Campa Ergo _and_ rear mech, right?


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

kbwh said:


> Ok, but that's with Campa Ergo _and_ rear mech, right?


That's the ideal setup, but quite a few people have had success with a Campag Ergo driving a Shimano RD, shifting on a Campag-spaced cassette, spinning along on a Shimano-splined wheel.

For example,
http://www.cxmagazine.com/shimano-campagnolo-ergopower-compatibility

The RD itself is not indexed anyway, so as long as the dynamic range is sufficient, it should at least work. Not sure if it will be as smooth as a full-on Campag setup, of course (at least up to the cassette spacing). 

FrankenBike!


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

I would then go first with the shifters, I can get also a good priced Centaur rear derailer.

What kind of crankset would you recommend for a campy triple on a 172.5 48/38/28 ?


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## RussellS (Feb 1, 2010)

You need Campagnolo shifters. And most likely a Campagnolo rear derailleur. You can try the Shimano rear to see if its crap or not. And an IRD cassette with Campagnolo spacing between cogs, but spline pattern for Shimano hubs. Leave the crank and front derailleur and wheels alone. If you are talking 10 speed, then 12-28 or 12-25 are the cassette options from IRD. 12-29 is 11 speed.

http://store.interlocracing.com/10elcacoca.html
Not exactly low cost. May be others making cassettes in Campagnolo spacing to fit Shimano splines.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Salsa_Lover said:


> I would then go first with the shifters, I can get also a good priced Centaur rear derailer.
> 
> What kind of crankset would you recommend for a campy triple on a 172.5 48/38/28 ?


I actually didn't know that there is no Campag-brand 172.5 triple crankset. Why don't you keep your current one to see if it works? You are keeping your Shimano FD, right?


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

yes, I have a 105 5603 with TA rings 48/38/28, I was ready to buy the Campagnolo comp set that can be found at CRC but they don't make it in 172.5, weird as I guess the 172.5 is the most common crankset lenght

I have seen some NOS Chorus and Record triples but those come with 52/42/32 rings and then I would have to buy a BB and 135bcd rings.... the whole thing would end costing as much or more as a full Athena 11 groupset


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

Salsa_Lover said:


> But another posibility could be just to swap the 105 Shifters by the Centaur ones and setup an Ambrosio cassette on the existing 105/Mavic A319 wheels.


1) You'd want new-old-stock shifters from 2010 since Campagnolo changed the mechanisms on all shifters below the Chorus (11 speed) level so the left shifter doesn't have the trim options and the right shifter won't go more than one cog smaller. Shiny Bikes still had 2010 Centaur Carbon levers for about $200 the last time I looked (as an American you don't pay the VAT listed on their website).

2) Using the Shimano derailleur would require a Jtek Shiftmate to match the different ratios.



> I could get Centaur or Veloce 10 speed shifters for a quite good price now, but I'd like some opinions before I go into that direction or even to go for a full campy migration.


Most Campagnolo users would not want 2011 Cenatur or Veloce levers.

Although I've yet to upgrade from 9 to 10 cogs (my rear deraillleur is worn out so I'll probably do so after wearing out my current cassette) I bought a set of 2010 levers before the supply ran out.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

RussellS said:


> You need Campagnolo shifters. And most likely a Campagnolo rear derailleur. You can try the Shimano rear to see if its crap or not. And an IRD cassette with Campagnolo spacing between cogs, but spline pattern for Shimano hubs. Leave the crank and front derailleur and wheels alone. If you are talking 10 speed, then 12-28 or 12-25 are the cassette options from IRD. 12-29 is 11 speed.
> 
> http://store.interlocracing.com/10elcacoca.html
> Not exactly low cost. May be others making cassettes in Campagnolo spacing to fit Shimano splines.


9 and 10 speed conversion cassettes

1) Cost 3-5X what an all-steel cassette (Veloce; same shiny nickel plated small cogs as Record, just no weight reducing titanium cogs or aluminum carriers) does imported from the UK. Least expensive is buying an Ultegra 9 speed cassette with a 12 starting cog and shipping it to Wheels Manufacturing ( which will add an 11 cog for the 10 speed conversion) and convert it for $50.

2) Have limited cog options.

If you want to use a Campagnolo rear mechanism I'd rebuild the rear wheel around a Campagnolo hub.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

Maybe totally off topic but here is my commute set up. Nine speed Record ergo levers, Record Ti front and rear derailleurs, a Jtek Shiftmate, and a 9 speed SRAM cassette on a Phil Wood hub. I use a shimaNo DuraAce 7410 crankset with 38/48 Stronglight rings, Phil Wood stainless bottom bracket, and SRAM 951 chains. Works well. Can't beat the cheap cassettes and chains for a commuter.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

I am to the point of deciding to go full Centaur

I can get the Ultra-Shift Centaur shifters plus a standard 53/39 and a 13-29 cassette won't cover the full range but maybe will be ok.

On my current setup I am on the 38 98% of the time and only switch down to the 28 for the really steep streets on the city ( maybe close to 20% but really short climbs ) those can be climbed on the 38x27 but it is not so easy on a suit jacket and also don't want really to sweat that much on my way to office.

We'll see, I could get a nice pair of Centaur hubs as well.


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## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

*MTB groups rule*

I'd chuck all the italian crap (Ilove it for road bikes mind you) and get a full Sram X-9 MTB 9spd or and full XT(R) 9spd with a a 11-34 cassette and 22 36 46 rings grip shift and avid disc brakes.........now you are talking!!!:

PS that my commencal Flamme setup (XT Middleburn Avid)


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

FSA do triples in 172.5
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/pedalier-fsa-...ts_Cyclisme_&hash=item3f0a09fc5e#ht_782wt_907
As did Campag up until a couple of years ago. 
Also a Sram 10 speed cassette with a Sram chain runs well enough with Campag shifters & mechs.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

FrenchNago said:


> I'd chuck all the italian crap (Ilove it for road bikes mind you) and get a full Sram X-9 MTB 9spd or and full XT(R) 9spd with a a 11-34 cassette and 22 36 46 rings grip shift and avid disc brakes.........now you are talking!!!:
> 
> PS that my commencal Flamme setup (XT Middleburn Avid)


Vade Retro ! that is sacrilegous ! :mad5:

, I am ordering some Centaur parts, to do the conversion, they were out of stock of 53/39 Centaur Cranks, but probably a Centaur with Specialites TA 46/36 rings would be fine for the city commuting.

For real touring a triple is desirable though. I am not sure if I want a FSA crank, maybe I would leave the 105 until I get a nicer triple maybe a full Specialites crank ?


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## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

Salsa_Lover said:


> Vade Retro ! that is sacrilegous ! :mad5:
> 
> 
> For real touring a triple is desirable though. I am not sure if I want a FSA crank, maybe I would leave the 105 until I get a nicer triple maybe a full Specialites crank ?


aha specialites !!! had some cranks from them for a while:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

the Centaur groupset arrived today, I will work on it tonight after work, more to follow !


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## Golfguy (Nov 20, 2010)

I'm using an FSA carbon dual crankset with my Campy Centaur road setup and it works fine with a Campy FD.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

I am not so sure about what to do.

I got a full Centaur 2010 Ultra groupset but without the brakes. Got them at a real good price from a local online shop in closeout.

It is a Compact 50/34 and has 2 cassettes a 13-29 cassette ( heavy ! ) and a 11-25

They still have some Ergos and 2009 Centaur skeleton brakes in stock so my plan would be like this

Plan A, 

Setup the Shimanolo frankengroup with the Centaur Ergo Levers. like this I will have what I miss on that bikes ( the Ergos ) all the rest will remain Shimano 48/38/28 and cantis. using the Ambrosio 12-28 cassette ( Shimano fit, Campagnolo spacing ).

I will see then if the Ergos perform right with that setup, If so, I will get another cassette Ambrosio as a reserve and I will buy another set of Centaur Ergos + breaks to complete the groupset to use it in the future ( maybe on a Master X-Light ? )

Plan B

If the Plan A fails due to bad shifting performance or because people scorn me about my frankenbike I will setup the full Centaur groupset 50/34 13-29 That give a close to the triple range ( but surely always crosschained ) using a set of Centaur Hubs to rebuild my Touring wheelset ( 105/DT Comp/Mavic A319 )

If the Crosschaining is too bad I could go to a 46/36 13-29 setup probably


I will carry on Plan A this weekend and post pics.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Good plan + backup. Looking forward to hearing about the performance when you're done.

And please post pics of this amazing Frankengroupset. Can we even call it a 'groupset'?


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

First step to a full conversion

I could get a set of Campagnolo Comp cranks, BB, front and rear derailers from a local shop that has dismounted them from a bike for a customer who preferred Shimano ( crazy huh ? ) for a quite good price $300 for the set.

So I went for Plan C : set it up on the bike with the Centaur Ergos and Cantis

The Crankset is a 52/42/30 170mm but well I will try it like it is , I have a a 13-29 Centaur cassette , that will at the end give a gearing close to the Shimano before. 

But I twisted the alloy pin guide so I couldn't close the Campy chain, oh well, I will order some KMC master links.

while waiting for them I am using the wheels on their 105 hubs using the Ambrosio Conversion 12-28 Cassette. I have a set of Centaur Hubs, so I will rebuild the wheels when I have some time and setup the right chain

in the meantime the bike is still on a "semi-franken" state I like it !

Before










After


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

I will ride it like it is when I have the wheels rebuilt and on the 13-29 to see how it feels otherwise 50/40 rings can be had on the market


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Nice bike! Is it so "Frankenbike" anymore? Looks like you have a full-on Campag setup even more than I do (I run Mavic brakes). Are you planning to use this for randonneur riding up and down the Swiss passes?


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## mrbubbles (Jul 1, 2007)

Have tried: 

10 speed Campagnolo indexing with Shimano rd and 8 speed Shimano spaced cassettes. Works fine.
10 speed Campagnolo indexing with Shimano rd and 9 speed Shimano spaced cassettes, hubbub routing, works ok if you can get the finicky cable routing to work.
10 speed Campagnolo indexing with Campagnolo 10 speed rd and 9 speed Shimano spaced cassettes. Works fine.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

orange_julius said:


> Nice bike! Is it so "Frankenbike" anymore? Looks like you have a full-on Campag setup even more than I do (I run Mavic brakes). Are you planning to use this for randonneur riding up and down the Swiss passes?


Well the brakes are Shimano 

This bike is my commuter, I spend a lot of time on it, probably even more than on my nice Colnagos, So it deserves a good build, It gets riden everyday, come rain, come shine, come sleet, come snow.

It is setup with high handlebars to be better positioned to ride on traffic and city clothes ( suits and ties 5 days a week). 

I kinda dislike the esthetics of the stem and high handlebars but function comes first than form in this case. I am trying to find a set of Ritchey Classic bars on 26mm to replace the ergos... no luck yet.

It has also been riden on short trips through mountains and lakes, but well its main function is all weather/all conditions commuter.


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## CampyGruppo (Jul 27, 2011)

i'd save the money and put better parts on your main road bike and keep the 105 for the commuter


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

my main road bike has SR11


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