# First road bike: '84 Nishiki Prestige



## badgerninja (Mar 23, 2015)

Hi all,

I'm new to the world of road biking (from Madison, Wisconsin), having just picked up a 1984 Nishiki Prestige in pristine condition at the LBS for about 500 bucks. I've always been on mountain bikes that I've used for commuting, and after I broke the shifter on my old-and-not-well-cared-for Scott MTB during a snow day commute, I have decided to get a road bike for the Spring and Summer months, and use that for commuting.

A couple of other reasons for getting into road bikes are that: 1. I want to develop my core as I'm into doing track days on the motorcycle, and I wanted to slowly break into amateur club racing at some point. 2. My girlfriend loves bikes, and we're planning on doing some longer rides together. My current commute to school is about 5 miles each way.

So I got fitted at another LBS (Specialized dealer) for a frame 56 (which felt small... I'm 6'), and wanted to get the Allez Sport, which was a tad expensive for my budget, and what I had wanted to spend on my first road bike. Also, the bikes looked intimidating and seemed to scoff at a newbie that dared to straddle them! Then I tried a few bikes at the budget used bike center and I think they were warm and inviting! I especially loved the friction shifting that seemed to take some caressing and getting-used-to, as opposed to the clunky Sora components on the newer bikes. The weight of the steel frame isn't a biggie to me (at least not as of yet), and I thought I'd be better off with one of these as opposed to aluminum. The frame is a size 60, though 58-60 seemed to fit me best. I think I may have to dabble around the other parts though, to give me the best fit... bars, saddle, front stem (?), et al. I think I'd like a lower, hunched down feeling, something I believe I'll be comfortable with, considering my experience with the motorcycle.

It seems to have been very well taken care of for its age... does not seem to have been abused like a commuter at all. It has a Tange 2 frame, Race/Sport Geometry (and something else), made by Kawamura, SunTour Cyclone shifters, an aftermarket saddle, and other whizzbang that I don't really know much about. I hope to learn more about my bike and to care for it properly with some advice from this forum, and from interacting with you guys.

Without further ado, here are some pictures:








The gf's Trek something...














Next to Tessa, my 2012 ZX6R.. err... just realized I need to come up with a name for the old girl









Action shot! Another two-wheeled obsession of mine!


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

Good find. zit'll last another 30 years no worries. keep it clean and dry and lubricate metal well. Core muscles, maybe try planking over the Nishiki.


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## Richard L (Jun 16, 2014)

Nice looking. The Retro-Classic Forum would like to see your bike.

Enjoy.


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## badgerninja (Mar 23, 2015)

Thank you, chaps!
I do plan on keeping her tidy, and would ideally like her to last me awhile. Even as I may get into other road bikes.
I took her for a short jaunt yesterday, a mile-ish round trip to the grocery store, and it was a real treat to ride. Smooth-flowing, very pleasing in the way it generates momentum and uncomplaining shifting. This is only my first road bike, but I'm enamored already. I think I'm in love!


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

And Madison area has some of the best riding anywhere, see you on the road!


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## Roland44 (Mar 21, 2013)

badgerninja said:


> Action shot! Another two-wheeled obsession of mine!


Both look great


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## Gregory Taylor (Mar 29, 2002)

That's a great bike. If the running gear (shifters, derailleurs, etc.) is SunTour Cyclone, you are in luck. Not modern, by any stretch, but good solid stuff. It also has the benefit of no longer being made, which makes the nostalgia element kick in with even more force. Early Cyclone components are considered to be true classics that can be mentioned alongside Campagnolo and the like. 

SunTour derailleurs - the Cyclone story

The stuff from '84 onward...well....they do have their fans. Not "classic" but still worth keeping on the bike, in my book.


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## badgerninja (Mar 23, 2015)

Thank you so much for the warm welcome, chaps!

I appreciate the link, Gregory. I do like the down-tube shifters (they are a Cyclone rear derailleur... not sure of the model yet. I did appreciate the Cream Disraeli Gears joke, though!) a lot, and I'm still surprised at how much faster I'm on the '84 road bike compared to my 2010-ish mountain bike! One of my reasons for going older was that I didn't think I could appreciate the newer components and technology without dealing with more basic bikes (kinda similar to motorcycles where you need to ride underpowered, more forgiving bikes, before you can straddle a monstrous supersports beast!).

I do want to keep this bike around for a long time, if I can. Feels like a warm, nice old friend! Except when it gets a flat, haha! The bike paths in Madison currently have a lot of grit that wants to decimate tubes.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

> I did appreciate the Cream Disraeli Gears joke, though


Huh. I've been listening to that album since it came out, and riding bikes with derailleurs for nearly that long, and never knew until today that the title came from somebody mis-speaking when he meant to say "derailleur gears." Never made the connection. I guess you can learn something new no matter how old you are.

I'm glad you like your bike. Your affection for downtube shifters is kind of a rationalization, it seems to me, but that's okay. They work, and you can certainly enjoy the bike. I used them for well over 20 years before dual-control levers came along, and I could work them fine in a pinch, but the integrated levers are definitely a real advance, and someday you'll want them, either on this bike or a newer one. But no hurry.

What size are those tires? And what kind of flats are you getting? If junk on the paths is causing pinch flats, bigger tires could be in order.

It is a nice bike.


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## badgerninja (Mar 23, 2015)

JCavilia... Hehe! I know what you mean. I discovered Cream a few years ago, and when you're young-ish and new to music from way before your time, I suppose you try to research the heck out of it. That was how I came to know about Disraeli Gears!

You may be right on the rationalization bit! I don't shift that much during my mostly-flat commute, so that may be why I haven't become tired of them yet.

The tires are a 700c, and if the flats continue, I might look for some thicker-walled tires.

Thanks again. I plan on exploiting some good weather for bike rides now that Spring Break is here.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Make sure to go into it eyes-open if you decide to monkey with the cockpit. Standards have changed since the '80s, and if you just walk into a bike shop and buy a handlebar or stem, chances are it won't fit the rest of what you have.

I ended up buying an adapter to let me use threadless stems on a '99 bike I used to ride. I like the removable faceplate, and a lot of new handlebars are compatible with a standard that's difficult or impossible to find in a quill stem. Your other option is just to stay period. Plenty of that stuff is around secondhand and some is still being manufactured, so it's not hard to find if you know you're looking for it.

Be wary of spending money on this bike. Much of what's there won't transfer to a new frame. If you like it, you can maintain and enjoy it for what it is. But when I broke my last bike of that vintage, I found myself with a pile of parts I couldn't put on a new frame, and ended up starting over. Which worked out okay, just be aware.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

badgerninja said:


> You may be right on the rationalization bit! I don't shift that much during my mostly-flat commute, so that may be why I haven't become tired of them yet.


I hear that. Shifting method matters less if you're shifting less. I shift a lot on rolling terrain on the road bike, but for my flat commute I ride fixed-gear.


> The tires are a 700c, and if the flats continue, I might look for some thicker-walled tires.


What's the other part of the tire size? There's another number (probably 23, maybe 25) indicating the tire width. That will have an effect on flat potential. Wider tires allow lower pressure while still avoiding pinch-flats. Also, your weight matters. bigger rider = bigger tire, ideally.

And are you getting pinch flats (caused by road obstacle squeezing the tire against the rim, and usually showing a double puncture like a snake bite), or punctures where something penetrates the tire? If the former, larger tires are the answer (if they'll fit). If the latter, thicker tire or tube may help.


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## badgerninja (Mar 23, 2015)

I apologize for the late update. Spring break week and all...

I had another flat, and I think I will just go ahead and get better, puncture-resistant tires. Any recommendations?

JCavilia...
The tire size is a 700 x 25C.
So, I weigh around 175 lb, and I'm 6'. I believe the last puncture was a 'pinch flat' as you describe it. There were 3-4 nips in the tube, with a large particle of grit sticking out of the outer tire wall.
So, I'm guessing my solution would be thicker tire and/or tube? 

Thanks, guys! It is depressing to walk out of the house in the morning to find a dead tire, and having to end up driving...


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Lots of crap on the roads this time of the year (and broken glass from the drunkfest after the Badger win)


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Pinch flats have a pretty distinctive look. They're oriented along the tire, parallel to the sidewalls, and often come in pairs.

If that's what you're getting, you need to use more tire pressure. Different tires or tubes won't help because what's happening is that the tube is getting squeezed between the rim sidewall and the ground.

Do you own a floor pump?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

badgerninja said:


> I had another flat, and I think I will just go ahead and get better, puncture-resistant tires. Any recommendations?
> 
> The tire size is a 700 x 25C.
> 
> So, I'm guessing my solution would be thicker tire and/or tube?


Tire _construction_ is what matters, and tires are your primary defense against punctures, not tubes.

I suggest running the largest tire your frame and fork can accommodate. As to makes/ models, Spec Armadillos have a good rep, but I have Continental Gatorskins and here in goat head country, they work pretty well. 

Just remember, puncture resistant tires are just that, puncture _resistant_ (so, you can still flat). and as was mentioned, experiment with pressures and once your optimal range is determined, maintain it.


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## badgerninja (Mar 23, 2015)

PJ352 said:


> Tire _construction_ is what matters, and tires are your primary defense against punctures, not tubes.
> 
> I suggest running the largest tire your frame and fork can accommodate. As to makes/ models, Spec Armadillos have a good rep, but I have Continental Gatorskins and here in goat head country, they work pretty well.
> 
> Just remember, puncture resistant tires are just that, puncture _resistant_ (so, you can still flat). and as was mentioned, experiment with pressures and once your optimal range is determined, maintain it.


Thanks!
I just went to the LBS and picked up a set of Conti GatorSkins, and have yet to put them on along with the new tubes.
I've never really paid much attention, unfortunately, to tire pressures, and will remember to do so. Are there any rules of thumb/charts to figure this out better (sorry, trained as an engineer here)?


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## badgerninja (Mar 23, 2015)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Make sure to go into it eyes-open if you decide to monkey with the cockpit. Standards have changed since the '80s, and if you just walk into a bike shop and buy a handlebar or stem, chances are it won't fit the rest of what you have.
> 
> I ended up buying an adapter to let me use threadless stems on a '99 bike I used to ride. I like the removable faceplate, and a lot of new handlebars are compatible with a standard that's difficult or impossible to find in a quill stem. Your other option is just to stay period. Plenty of that stuff is around secondhand and some is still being manufactured, so it's not hard to find if you know you're looking for it.
> 
> Be wary of spending money on this bike. Much of what's there won't transfer to a new frame. If you like it, you can maintain and enjoy it for what it is. But when I broke my last bike of that vintage, I found myself with a pile of parts I couldn't put on a new frame, and ended up starting over. Which worked out okay, just be aware.


I really appreciate this bit of advice. Sorry for the late response.
I realize now that I need to take really good care of this bike in order to get lots of life from her. I think my feeling is to keep this bike as is and use it as a solid commuter. So far, I've been impressed with it, except for the flats which I blame on the old rubber.
Thank you, again.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

badgerninja said:


> Thanks!
> I just went to the LBS and picked up a set of Conti GatorSkins, and have yet to put them on along with the new tubes.
> I've never really paid much attention, unfortunately, to tire pressures, and will remember to do so. Are there any rules of thumb/charts to figure this out better (sorry, trained as an engineer here)?


There are lots of charts/rules/arguments about that. I'd suggest you do a search in the Wheels and Tires forum on the term "pressure," and you'll find a lot of discussion.

Or, assuming the new tires are also 25s, at your weight I'd start with something like 80psi front, 90 rear. If you tend to ride "light" (i.e., avoiding potholes and cracks and rocks, and unweighting with legs and arms when you can't) you might be able to go a little lower and still avoid pinch flats. If you whomp into a lot of stuff, you might have to go a little higher.

A decent floor pump with a gauge is essential for road biking. Unlike the higher-volume lower-pressure mtb, road bike tires can lose significant pressure in a few days. A pump with a gauge makes it easy to top before the ride every couple days.


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## Gregory Taylor (Mar 29, 2002)

The new tires and tubes should fix that. It sounds like you ran over some crap on the road. A "pinch flat" looks like a snake bite - two holes next to each other on either side of the tube where it got squashed due to the rim meeting the road because the tire was underinflated.  

In terms of "how much pressure" for a bike tire, that's a debate as old as pneumatic tires. Here's a pretty decent article on the subject....

http://www.bikequarterly.com/images/TireDrop.pdf

And here's an article by Sheldon Brown (RIP), the secular Patron Saint of Cycling. Poke around on his website - pure gold in terms of practical information about bikes from the '80s and '90s (as well as '60s and '70's).

Bicycle Tires and Tubes


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## badgerninja (Mar 23, 2015)

Whew!
Finally, I'm back to enjoying the bike as much as I thought I would.

Sorry for not having responded to this thread in the meantime. I was extremely frustrated with the tubes and the tires getting deflated or the tubes popping. This disgust led me to not even try fiddling with the bike for the longest time, as I often wished I had a flame-thrower lying around I could set fire to it with!

Finally, I took the wheel in to the LBS and the dude there gave me a quick tutorial on how to put on a tube and tire and I realized I had not quite been doing that. I used to first put the tube along the rim and then get the tire mounted. I haven't had any flats since, and I hope this run of good luck continues, especially because it is a really nice way to spend some time with the inamorata.


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## badgerninja (Mar 23, 2015)

I hate the bike.
Hours after the last post, I went out to see the front tire deflated. No idea what the heck is going on... I've probably gone through with about 6 tubes so far.

The only thing I could think of was when I hopped a curb or two, but not with the same intensity as a mountain bike.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

badgerninja said:


> I hate the bike.
> Hours after the last post, I went out to see the front tire deflated. No idea what the heck is going on... I've probably gone through with about 6 tubes so far.
> 
> The only thing I could think of was when I hopped a curb or two, but not with the same intensity as a mountain bike.


You really need to learn how road bike tires work, and how to determine what kind of flats you are getting, and how to fix the problem

The road tires have much less volume than the mtb. Hopping a curb on a road bike without pinch-flatting takes some pretty advanced bike-handling skills.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

do your wheels have good rim tape?


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## badgerninja (Mar 23, 2015)

Back from the dead to update this!
It turned out to be rubbish rim tape, and the bike has been a champ all this while once this was fixed.
Not to go find some people to ride with, and talk about bicycle racing...

Thanks for your patience, everyone!


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