# Best TT bike/frame for the money?



## cyclingobsession (May 6, 2005)

I have been racing road collegiate for the past couple seasons, and looking to focus on TT's this year. Being a student, I am on a budget, but still able to afford the price range of 1500-2000 (bike built) and was curious to see what brand/models people would recommend?


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*option 1*



cyclingobsession said:


> I have been racing road collegiate for the past couple seasons, and looking to focus on TT's this year. Being a student, I am on a budget, but still able to afford the price range of 1500-2000 (bike built) and was curious to see what brand/models people would recommend?


Buy aero bars.

Train with aero bars.

Train even more with aero bars.

Possible redial on position with seat in combo with aero cars.

Spend saved bucks on indoor trainer and/or training resources. Stainless steel barf bucket is a goody and you will still have bucks for how about....a wheel set. 

Otherwise, unless you plan to go total TT in discipline, your road bike should do the trick. That is unless I mis read you. Good luck.


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## psuambassador (Jun 9, 2005)

I just built up a softride classic tt. I may have spent a bit over what you're looking at, but then again I put all the top line stuff on. You can get a classic tt 650 frame (a bit heavier but perhaps the most aerodynamic out there) for 699. It features internal wiring and a suspension beam system. I put a disc wheel and tri spoke on front, which you can simply use deep v aero wheels for a lot less cost. I put on a flat aero visiontech basebar and profile t2+ aero bars. I also have a full DA drive train on there which another area where you can save major mula just by using 105 instead. Take a look.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

cyclingobsession said:


> I have been racing road collegiate for the past couple seasons, and looking to focus on TT's this year. Being a student, I am on a budget, but still able to afford the price range of 1500-2000 (bike built) and was curious to see what brand/models people would recommend?


Since you're a collegiate racer, can you get deals from the local shop? If so, I'd find an old cheap steel frame, throw on a dedicated aerobar setup, some decent wheels and a 105 group. Should be well below you're budget, depending on the wheels you'd buy.

If you won't get a good deal on parts, then a complete bike would probably do the trick. Cervelo is a name that often comes up, and their P2 lineup would be right in your price range.

Other than that, buy a skinsuit, an aero helmet and you'll be set to go.

Silas


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*but he said he wanted to race...*



psuambassador said:


> I just built up a softride classic tt. I may have spent a bit over what you're looking at, but then again I put all the top line stuff on. You can get a classic tt 650 frame (a bit heavier but perhaps the most aerodynamic out there) for 699. It features internal wiring and a suspension beam system. I put a disc wheel and tri spoke on front, which you can simply use deep v aero wheels for a lot less cost. I put on a flat aero visiontech basebar and profile t2+ aero bars. I also have a full DA drive train on there which another area where you can save major mula just by using 105 instead. Take a look.



and while softrides are comfortable machines, they are energy sapping, heavy boat anchors. its a beautiful bike, I will admit and building it must have been enjoyable but as a strict TT bike I'm afraid he would not see the results he probably hopes to with that frame and 650 wheelset. There also seems to be disagreement here as to whether those frame designs are even legal in some races. for a strict TT design, you'd best be served by building up a frame like a Leader 735 with 105 group (a 54 ring if the legs are strong) and a set of dedicated aerobars and shifters. the trispoke and disc can be picked up for around 500$ if he's lucky (I was!) and a good set of 700x20mm tires can be found for about 30.00$. frame=350.00$. 105 group + shifters = 600$. wheel set 500$ aerobars (200$) pedals = 80$ fork = 100$. that's right around 1600$ for a descent machine with some potential, even though I know I'm leaving some stuff out... 
just my 2 0.02$.


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

Cervelo Dual seems like it would probably be worth a look. But I keep seeing Cervelo QC issues posted here--seatposts slipping and whatnot. I would also look into picking up something used...lot of tri geeks dumping high end bikes to get the next latest and greatest...


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

bahueh said:


> There also seems to be disagreement here as to whether those frame designs are even legal in some races.


The only disagreement is between those who know the rules and those who don't. For 2005-6, under the current rules, softrides are illegal for all UCI races and legal in all USCF and FIAC races except those which choose riders for international competitions.


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## The Carlster (Sep 16, 2005)

Here's another vote for getting some aero bard for your road bike. I loved crushing people on TT bikes w/ my road bike converted for TTs. 

It's by far the cheapest way to go, and you should be able to get the exact position you'd get on a TT bike. 

On this note, my GF did IM Wisonsin a couple of months ago - on her road bike w/ aero bars - and w/ the course having a jillion rollers on it, and coupled w/ 25 mph wind, I had to laugh at the tri geeks w/ their $5K tt bikes and 404s & even disks. BTW, she placed ~20th in her age group out of 120 in the bike split.


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*we're all aware...*



asgelle said:


> The only disagreement is between those who know the rules and those who don't. For 2005-6, under the current rules, softrides are illegal for all UCI races and legal in all USCF and FIAC races except those which choose riders for international competitions.



you've chimmed in on this way too much...rules are only words on paper. some local race organizers allow them..unfortunately for the riders.


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## psuambassador (Jun 9, 2005)

My apologies. I use mine for triathlons not pure TTs, so I wasn't thinking in that mode. Yes, I believe these guys are right that softrides are or will soon be illegal for tt races.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*so.......*



bahueh said:


> you've chimmed in on this way too much...rules are only words on paper. some local race organizers allow them..unfortunately for the riders.


Do you have a metric you use to know when and when not a person has chimed in way too much on a topic. You can take personal satisfaction in knowing you hit the top of my annoying habits by arrogant cyclists who forget other peo[ple might actually learn something from a post that contains facts. HOLY COW!!!!!!


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

bahueh said:


> you've chimmed in on this way too much...rules are only words on paper. some local race organizers allow them..unfortunately for the riders.


He should repeat it again, because you didn't understand the rules. Softrides are LEGAL for USCF races with no international selection. Unless you race elite cross or a pro event that is UCI listed, that means you!

Silas


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*its more of an index, actually..*



ttug said:


> Do you have a metric you use to know when and when not a person has chimed in way too much on a topic. You can take personal satisfaction in knowing you hit the top of my annoying habits by arrogant cyclists who forget other peo[ple might actually learn something from a post that contains facts. HOLY COW!!!!!!



a sliding scale if you will....comes down to a high measure of reliability when the same guy "chimes" in on the exact same subject every few weeks, taughting a trivial piece of knowledge. I'm hardly an arrogant cycling whatsoever....where was I boasting any knowledge above and/or beyond anyone else? you must be friends. my statement was simple, citing previous conversations on this posting board about a disagreement between the rules and regulations of sed sanctioned TT events in this country...
WHERE do you pull arrogance from that? if that's the apex of your annoying habits list...you are probably taking this post way too seriously...


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*speaking of arrogant, George...*



SilasCL said:


> He should repeat it again, because you didn't understand the rules. Softrides are LEGAL for USCF races with no international selection. Unless you race elite cross or a pro event that is UCI listed, that means you!
> 
> Silas


its not that is past my ability of comprehension...I simply don't care that much. I don't own a softride, i certain will never race one, so the rules (whatever they are) don't apply to any particular racing endeavour I may choose...


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## cyclingobsession (May 6, 2005)

Seems like most reactions insist on the quick conversion TT bars on the road bike. I'm looking to fully focus on TT's this season, no road races or crits, so I think a TT bike would be approriate. Any recommendations on aero wheels? My team is investing in 4 HED rear discs for nationals (team TT collegiate). Any suggestions on front wheels? training wheels?


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

*Get a TT setup on your current road frame.*



cyclingobsession said:


> Seems like most reactions insist on the quick conversion TT bars on the road bike. I'm looking to fully focus on TT's this season, no road races or crits, so I think a TT bike would be approriate. Any recommendations on aero wheels? My team is investing in 4 HED rear discs for nationals (team TT collegiate). Any suggestions on front wheels? training wheels?


Before you decide to invest, why not investigate the value of the different investments? Start with this article: http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=3574

To quote, and this is not new knowledge:
<i>Roughly 75-80% of aerodynamic drag is due to the rider and only 20-25% is due to the equipment (bike, wheels, helmet, etc.). Thus, rider position is very important.</i>

So the cheapest investment would be an aero bar, and a frame which allows you to get a good, aerodynamic position, without losing much power. Hence the suggestions on getting an aero bar is correct, because it allows you to be more aerodynamic with little cost. 

TT fit is more tricky. Do you think that you can do well with a Michael Rogers-style 14-cm vertical drop from the seat to the bars? If you do, then you will need a frame with very low head tube, or a smaller frame overall. Otherwise, your current road frame is probably good enough, with some modification. The modification can include a new headset for a lower position, a cowhorn-style bar, an aero bar, and bar-end shifters for shifting while on the aero bar. 

Most riders will also buy an entire new set of cables (shifters, brakes) for this setup, and you can switch between the TT and road setup. The investment is already pretty significant: it will run you a few hundred bucks. How much are you looking to spend in the first place? Does your team get any discounts from your LBS, or some manufacturers/distributors? Note that after all this investment, *YOU* still have to get comfortable riding in the TT position. If you're new to the game you'll probably get measurably faster in a matter of months. No need to invest in too much bling!


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## nhl856 (Aug 2, 2003)

NO, aerobars on a road bike do not put you in the right position!!!!! Time trial bikes and road bikes have extremely different geometry and by simply putting aero bars on a standard road geometry bike you are just stretching yourself into an inefficient position that will not benefit you more than lowering your stem on your current road bike. Time trial bikes have steeper seat tube angles and shorter top tubes to accomodate the more laid out positioning. You might be able to fudge the geo on your road bike and use a setback seatpost flipped around to give you slightly better positioning but it will never be as good as a bike designed for the purpose.


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*back to being constructive here..*



cyclingobsession said:


> Seems like most reactions insist on the quick conversion TT bars on the road bike. I'm looking to fully focus on TT's this season, no road races or crits, so I think a TT bike would be approriate. Any recommendations on aero wheels? My team is investing in 4 HED rear discs for nationals (team TT collegiate). Any suggestions on front wheels? training wheels?



the discs will serve you well I think unless there are heavy crosswinds...in terms of a front wheel, the trispoke is the norm but any front wheel with a significant deep rim will work equally as well (zipp 303, 404, mavic carbone) it really depends on your wallet in that regard. I've picked up a trispoke on ebay for 250.00$..those can be hit and miss in terms of trueness, but there are definitely cheaper front wheels. Spinergy's are a possibility although there are mixed reviews on their structural integrity (I'm sure low mile usage would be fine). sort of depends if you want a wheel that can be trued also. training wheels? anything will work...I currently have a pair of neuvation training wheels that are quite bombproof and work well. 
I would have to also agree with the previous post that clip on aerobars really don't get you into the same position as a dedicated aerobar setup...you can tweak the settings to be close, but you should be able to notice the difference.


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## The Carlster (Sep 16, 2005)

Well, if you're going to racing TTs exclusivly at a Cat 1 level, then deal w/ the cost and get a Cervelo or a C-dale or whatever TT specific bike. It will cost you $3K minimum (no top-o-the-line parts on it). Hell, a set of 404s is going to run you $2K - and you can figure $50/per flat if you ride tubulars too. Seeing how zero professionals use 650c wheels, I'd avoid them big time. Any tt bike will get you cranked over in a reasonablally aero position - I'd find someone in your area that can help you w/ bike positioning - that would be worth a lot. I hope you're used to riding w/ zero stack height, cause seeing guys on TT bikes that are not 'flat' is not only funnylooking, but they're typically slow (i.e. triathletes).


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## midlife_xs's (Jun 18, 2004)

I don't mean to hijack this thread but I have a related question....
what is the reason behind 650 wheels on time trial bikes? I have an old (translation-rigid) mountain bike and I put on 26 x 1 tires, essentially the size of 650 wheels and I run out of gears at 26 mph with a 50 tooth chainring. Aren't 700c wheels faster?


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

check out ebay mate !! i've seen one of those TST "mongoose brand" titanium TT frames + wheelsmith built wheels w/ultegra hubs. circa $500US, 9sp 105 r derailleur = $25, front $12, cassette c.40, chain $12, bar end shifters, what are they on ebay? $40-50. Biggest decision is cranks and BB IMHO. Still, shouldn't be too much more than $100-$150. You could build your own bike pretty cheaply, and it would make a very good bike with decent long-term main't costs, ie, cheap chains and cassettes..

as for the 650 wheels, i have no idea. i'm not a TT guy. I think, think, its purely geometry that affect what you can put under there, and i think in bigger frame sizes u can squeeze in 700 rims.


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## psuambassador (Jun 9, 2005)

Any deep v rim will work well for you up front. I have a training set of Velocity Spartacus and they are great. For $185 from Chucksbikes I got this set and plan to use the front wheel on windy days. They offer a deep v cut and the hubs are solid. Everyone I know who has owned a set, loves them.


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## xcmntgeek (Aug 24, 2002)

Wow, what collegiate team do you race for? 4 freaking disks???? We're just trying to pay for hotels right now!

Will you be doing any of the TTTs this season with your collegiate team? If so, make sure you get a set up that you can widen your arms out a little for better control. 

I'm in college too, and I found a used Cervelo P2K and then priced out the components. Look around, I'm sure you can find one cheap and build it up and still have $$$$ for some wheels, or better yet a power meter! (BTW, for the $$$, a HED disk and a front spinergy Rev-X is an excelent combo). 

IMO, this is what I'd look for:
-Solid frame with a short head tube, you want the option of being able to slam your self way the hell down there. Or maybe not, but at least you'd have the option. Geometry isn't as important as some people think. I think a short TT is helpful (because you'll be bent over so much) but most TTers run their saddle right at the UCI minimum of 5cm behind the BB. Mine has been check every year at nationals.... and I've had to chop saddles that wouldn't comply. Which ever frame/bike you get make sure that at your seat height it will work.

-Horizontal rear drop outs. I haven't seen any research to back this up, but it seems to make sense that the closer you can get the rear wheel to the frame the more aero it will be.

-Aero-bars. If you're serious then a pair of HED or Vision Tech one piece bars take the cake. I think the HEDs are slightly more adjustable, but I love my vision techs

Every thing else is just minor details, resist the urge to put moster gears on it, you don't need a 56 up front! And seriously think about getting a used power meter, it will help your TTing more than anything else.

Justin


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## TZL (May 4, 2005)

if you want a bargin TT bike........i have a brand new Giant MCR Aero bike frameset that I can sell you for $600.......


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*why?*



nhl856 said:


> NO, aerobars on a road bike do not put you in the right position!!!!! Time trial bikes and road bikes have extremely different geometry and by simply putting aero bars on a standard road geometry bike you are just stretching yourself into an inefficient position that will not benefit you more than lowering your stem on your current road bike. Time trial bikes have steeper seat tube angles and shorter top tubes to accomodate the more laid out positioning. You might be able to fudge the geo on your road bike and use a setback seatpost flipped around to give you slightly better positioning but it will never be as good as a bike designed for the purpose.


Putting aero bars on a standard road machine does not mean NOT redialing yoour position. In fact, I do believe, at least 2 other folks have mentioned, oh by the way, watch your posiion with aero bars and road frame combo.

Why would you say strething one self out and then LOWERING your stem???? Thats crazy talk. 

First, lowering the stem could not be anything but foolish even if you thouight it would provide you a more "aero" position. Second, what is an aerro position? Specifically, there is no generic one. Each person has a position that is better for them. It took me months to figure out a decent position for a TT effort as oppsed to a "regular road" riding position.

The point is that aero bars will allow an idea as to what you are looking for or what you will be dealing with as far as arms, upper body position etc etc etc. As to flipping your seat post. That is a train wreck on your regular road rig. We are not discussing the Cervelo model here, what I see is the assumption that stretching yourself out is better or "more aero". 

IMO Seat position is one of the most critical for the TT as it is one of the easiest ways to see just where you can put out better speeds with the things that are moving the bike: your legs. For some folks, that does not happen with what some insist is more aero..... Again, unless you are going to do nothing but TT's. A TT rig will not provide a spectacular benefit in this specific context.


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*there really isn't much difference...*



midlife_xs's said:


> I don't mean to hijack this thread but I have a related question....
> what is the reason behind 650 wheels on time trial bikes? I have an old (translation-rigid) mountain bike and I put on 26 x 1 tires, essentially the size of 650 wheels and I run out of gears at 26 mph with a 50 tooth chainring. Aren't 700c wheels faster?



I've heard the 650 were marketed as "less wind resistant" but what they lack in wind friction, they make up for in road/tire friction. if they were faster, more people would ride them...it was mostly a fad that is disappearing quickly.


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## jksu (Mar 8, 2004)

*hed vo4*

get a frame from the man who knows aero...steve hed.

this vo4 frame is a deal at $1600, was his testing ground for all this aero bars/forks/wheels. decided to make a few of the frames to sell. it's a sweet deal compared to other aero frames out there, comes in 1 kick-ass color matte black.

all3sports has them for $1000 now (size large and small only). add on your ultegra groupo (either via all3sports or off ebay) and you've got a sub $2k race rig. i just ordered one (it includes fork, headset, aero seatpost).

the geometry (seat tube angle) is less severe/extreme (74deg) compared to other tt/tri specific (75+) bikes so will probably work well for a roadie/tt guy vs. a tri.

john



cyclingobsession said:


> I have been racing road collegiate for the past couple seasons, and looking to focus on TT's this year. Being a student, I am on a budget, but still able to afford the price range of 1500-2000 (bike built) and was curious to see what brand/models people would recommend?


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## inthegutter (Jun 12, 2005)

To bad it really isn't Hed's design at all. It is made in the far east and Hed, along with Planet X and a few others just sticker it up. That said, it's still a good deal at 1k for frame/fork/post/seat


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## BenR (Dec 14, 2001)

*Leader frames*

I would seriously consider the newest Leader time trial frameset. The rear dropouts are horizontal so you can adjust your chainstay length for different tires or use it on the track. They claim the bb shell has been properly prepped for installation, which wasn't always the case in the past. 

Really, though, any road bike will usually work. The biggest advantage of a TT bike is having something that you can fiddle with position and leave it that way to train on, instead of swapping everything around on your main race bike throughout the season. The next best thing is having a seperate saddle and seatpost that are marked so you can change them quickly.

You've heard it before, sure aero frames are cool, but remember that your position makes much more difference than the frame. A cheap used steel frame would also work okay and the small tubes aren't that bad. You're not racing crits or epic road races on it either, so it doesn't have to be especially stiff, smooth, or light. Nashbar used to sell a cheap aluminum frame that might work. Of course TT specific frames will handle better in the aerobars and allow you to get lower if you're flexible enough in the first place, BUT if you'd rather spend much of that 1,500 on something else and already have parts, find a cheap frame and see how it works out. 

If you need an entire bike, the Leader options look pretty good. It looks like you can get an aero,tt geometry frame/fork/headset shipped for roughly $600. I can't find prices right now, but think he is also selling complete ultegra 10 tt setups for $1500. The wheels would work for training and you would then have parts and aerobars that way. Make sure you like the old school 78 degree seat tube angle and not the current "big slam" trend that is more road-like. I was looking at these bikes last year before stumbling across an older Strong. The Strong isn't neccessarily better, but it has soul and makes me feel fast.


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## arthurmcw (Jun 9, 2004)

The 650 wheel in the front drops your upper body down which puts you in a more aero position.


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## mprevost (Jul 30, 2005)

*650 Wheels*



bahueh said:


> I've heard the 650 were marketed as "less wind resistant" but what they lack in wind friction, they make up for in road/tire friction. if they were faster, more people would ride them...it was mostly a fad that is disappearing quickly.


No...the 650 wheel was used to tuck the back wheel under the rider more, improving weight distribution. Riding in aerobars negatively affects the weight distribution of a bike (too much on front end) and affects handling. 650 wheels allows you to tuck the wheel under the rider more, shifting some of the weight back on the rear whee. Also allows you to get a bit lower up front. They are about geometry. This allowed tri bikes to go to 78-80 degree seat tube angles and ridiculously low front ends for aerodynamics. 

They are not as necessary today with integrated headsets, lower profile aerobars and seat tube cutouts. Also, tri bikes have longer wheelbases and front center distances than they used to dueto USAT rules change. All of this made 700 c more practical. Tri bikes that are smaller than 50 c are still better designed with 650 c wheels. 

Mike


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## fleck (Mar 25, 2005)

*my $ 0.02*

For your price range...
forget the bike,
convert.

get the bar setup with bar end shifters HED, Vision, Easton ($$$)

for the front wheel, a 3 spoke is the fastest, deep dish is a little less squirily in wind
(i've got a deep dish HED and don't notice any side pull and i'm only 150lbs. I think it is overstated for the most part) 

An aero helmet will shave some seconds, shoe covers, a skin suit...

is your stem pointing up? flip it over! (thats free!)

this setup will do you fine for a year or two, save you pennies and buy a kicking frame, then, toss on your 3 spoke and TT bar setup. 

also, in TTs we tend to crank harder, perhaps larger chainrings, and i've heard the Dura Ace 7800 crankset (or ultegra for that mater) are a heck of a lot stiffer then the comp.

most of your recommends on this thread were bringing you around $2500 or so...
remember, everything costs more then you'll plan on spending.


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## BATMAN (Aug 15, 2005)

wasn't 650 marketed as lighter wheels for those weight weenies?


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## czdavid (Jun 1, 2005)

Check out the 2006 Jamis Comet, I think it is complete for around $1600.


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## jksu (Mar 8, 2004)

*HED TT bike*

that's interesting...i believe you it's made overseas (and the design is probably used by other makes) but i figured hed had some say into this "test sled" for his aerobars/wheels.

either way, most tt bikes out there look pretty darn similar and i'm sure not all of them are wind tunnel tested (too costly) so they just copy each other...or buy from the same factory overseas.

here's the buildup...not bad for under $2k (got most the gear used from a friend or via mailorder). definitely gained 1-2mph on my stretch along pch. still getting used to the "aero" position so hopefully i'll get faster!

john



inthegutter said:


> To bad it really isn't Hed's design at all. It is made in the far east and Hed, along with Planet X and a few others just sticker it up. That said, it's still a good deal at 1k for frame/fork/post/seat


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## 2Fast2Furryious (Jun 11, 2004)

*Try a FORT*

Nice pic of the HED bike - very stealth. On the other hand, the picture of the Softride at the top of the page, I mean, come on - what's with all the water bottles? Does FEMA call you in to extinguish forest fires in the dry season? You could haul a brewery around in that thing! 

Suggestion: check out the TT frames made by FORT frames (www.fortframes.com), they sponsor my roommate for 'cross and I've had 3 of their bikes, which were all awesome. Gregg Dion, the owner, is a very knowledgable dude and will take his time to get what you want for the price you can afford.


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## Proboscis (May 1, 2002)

*Why not*

try this? Get your TT fit done first. Then you can see if your current road bike can be converted. If not, you will need a seperate bike. I suggest this only because my road bike fit is quite different than my TT fit. Alot people need a shorter top tube on a TT bike as compared to their road bike.


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## mprevost (Jul 30, 2005)

*Leader TT bike on Ebay wich ChAero wheel cover for the rear...*

Very cheap solution and as good as a 3K setup. I have heard many good things about the wheel cover and Leader TT frame.

Mike


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## Spezzoto (Dec 17, 2004)

*Time trial bike.*

I am in the military and have the experience to be living in Italy. I just went with my friend to a shop that the guy build frames. Me and my friend actually have two bikes from him. Last week my friend ask me if he build TT bikes and he does. He can replicate the Pinarello Montello TT bike in carbon. He set it up with Shimano DA, ITM aero bar and Vuelta carbon Pro tubular 50mm wheels. I know you will not get that in the States for the same price. I can said that the best option right now is Ebay or roadbike review...


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