# Disappointed with SRAM Red



## encomium

Hi All

I've just got my SRAM Red groupset but haven't had a chance to fit it yet. I'm just wondering now if i should keep hold of it or sell it and wait to see the new Dura Ace and Campy offerings for 2009.

The reason I am disappointed is that SRAM has already upgraded the group for 2009 (new crank/bb30) this is quite interesting as the other two manufacturers seem to have products that are good for 3-4years before any upgrades. I feel that it is a bit of the scam by SRAM to release upgrades a year after launching a brand new gruppo.

I know that keeping up with new technologies and products is a never ending thing, but to be out of date months after spending quite a lot of money on bicycles parts is a little much....don't you think?


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## AH1

I hear the 2010 SRAM will be 12 speed w/ bluetooth shifting.

You'll be chasing your tail. The current red group is nice you'll enjoy it. But if it's going to nag at you, get what makes you happy.


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## encomium

Hi AH1

Thanks for your thoughts...and as i mentioned, i realise that something new is always on the horizon....but if you bought Campy record in 2007 or Shimano DA 7800 in 06...there's a good few years before new stuff is announced.

The new Red crankset has been announced less than a year (?) after the launch of the current version. that's got to be pretty disappointing for a lot of people.....

i know exactly what you mean about that nagging feeling and that's exactly what i feel now...should i wait? or should i just use red. Mind you, I'm on 105 now so whatever it is it will be a step (or two) up....


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## velomonkey

Regarding BB30, that's a bottom bracket standard that has gained some ground, the point is it's not a component upgrade - either you have a frame with BB30 or not. By having the option of BB30 SRAM can not sell to the BB30 frame crowd such as C'Dale, some specialized and some custom bikes.

If you want the latest and greatest you will never be happy - or you will have to spend mad cash.

I think of it this way, Cunego won the giro just a few years ago on a C'Dale aluminum frame with campy and Ksyrium wheels. It was good enough then, it's still good enough now.


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## Cyclo-phile

You own the best groupset currently available on the market, and you're complaining? Is your life incomplete if you don't have the latest and greatest of everything? Are you a privateer pro we've never heard of where the difference between 6.801kg and 6.800kg might mean winning the world championships? How about giving yourself a reality check.


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## encomium

Cyclo-phile said:


> You own the best groupset currently available on the market, and you're complaining? Is your life incomplete if you don't have the latest and greatest of everything? Are you a privateer pro we've never heard of where the difference between 6.801kg and 6.800kg might mean winning the world championships? How about giving yourself a reality check.


i'll take that with a pinch of salt...

on the contrary, i am a relative newbie...and have decided totake a plunge on buying a top end gruppo asi've started racing and am enjoying it all...

i've always loved campy and i think it is the brand with the most passion etc (if that means anything anymore)...

i chose to go SRAM as like someone mentioned, it is the best gruppo available now...of course the DA 7900 is imminent and Campy 09 stuff will be announced shortly...

so this is why i have a dilemna...stick with the RED, wait to see what Campy 09 has to offer or just trade the RED in for the current Record.

silly i know...but hey...this is a cycling forum to talk about cycling stuff so i thought i'd start the conversation...


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## AH1

Let me give you an example from the Sports car industry. Porsche does a face lift every 6-8 years. How do you get a buyer out of his perfectly good car, drop 120K and into a new one that looks about the same. Small tweaks that cost the company very little, a little more HP, a little stiffer door post, some carbon fiber in an airbox, and the guy that needs the latest greatest is forking over the cash...
Don't forget the marketing aspect. How else do you get someone with a very good group or high end bike Into a new one?. Make it "stiffer", "add a little more carbon fiber, add an extra gear or ceramic bearings...


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## encomium

good point....

i guess i'm just thinking my SRAM Red will be obsolete in 3-4years....whereas my Campy Record will be a classic...


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## MarvinK

I was actually pretty happy after reading the details on 2009 Dura Ace. SRAM Red is still lighter--and most of the new improvements in Dura Ace are clearly 'inspired' by SRAM Red. You can ride SRAM Red, and feel like you were one of the first to pick up on the newest innovations (SRAM Red is still lighter than 09 Dura Ace), or you can switch back to Campy or Shimano and send the signal you don't like innovation (and prefer the 1-2 big changes per year). 

It's your SRAM parts that are forcing the big changes to Dura Ace this year--as well as putting pressure on Campy.


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## Marc

encomium said:


> good point....
> 
> i guess i'm just thinking my SRAM Red will be obsolete in 3-4years....whereas my Campy Record will be a classic...


Meh.

Do you hear/see people going gaga over old Record/Chorus ergos? 8 speed brifters are obsolete-and they're never going to be a "classic" a la Super Record down-tube, same with 9s and 10s and probably the coming 11s etc.

I ride Campy-but h*ll you already have a top end gruppo-build it. What more do you want from a drive-train?


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## Guest

encomium said:


> good point....
> 
> i guess i'm just thinking my SRAM Red will be obsolete in 3-4years....whereas my Campy Record will be a classic...


Why on earth will it be "obsolete"?

Will it still shift gears and turn the chain around the cogs?

Then it isn't "obsolete".

I still have a couple of bikes that run 40 year old 5 speed systems - they are, quite frankly, just as fast as any 10 speed bike I own.


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## roadieKill

welcome to being a sram beta tester
Lots of people are in your same shoes. While shimano and campy have got decades of r&d sram does not.
No FD lower ring trim, breaking FD cages, brake caliper recalls by the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, noisy performance and so on ultimately will make a company like sram have more refresh components than shimano or campy.
It took years for campy to perform as smooth and quiet as the record group does. Sram's only been in the road groupo game for approx 2 yrs. And they 'bought' themselves in the game. Expect growing pains for yrs to come


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## MarvinK

Campy doesn't believe in recalls--there have been rumors in the past that Campy *should* have recalled several products. Shimano has recalled products, too--including cranks,cleats and quick releases in the past few years. I was an early adopter of SRAM Force, and they'd already resolved the issue before I even got mine. If you talk to most bike shops, they'll say SRAM stands behind their products (and has on their mountain bike parts for many years) and will choose the right thing (with a recall) when appropriate. Not all cycling brands put your safety first.

If you don't think SRAM's technology is what is putting them in the game, you obviously haven't looked at Shimano and Campy 2009 products.


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## Tschai

roadieKill said:


> welcome to being a sram beta tester
> Lots of people are in your same shoes. While shimano and campy have got decades of r&d sram does not.
> No FD lower ring trim, breaking FD cages, brake caliper recalls by the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, noisy performance and so on ultimately will make a company like sram have more refresh components than shimano or campy.
> It took years for campy to perform as smooth and quiet as the record group does. Sram's only been in the road groupo game for approx 2 yrs. And they 'bought' themselves in the game. Expect growing pains for yrs to come


What? Sram shifting is different, not inferior. I prefer the feel and noise of Sram shifting on both my road and mountain bikes. Hell, in the mountain bike arena, Sram basically POWNED Shimano. It produced such better shifting that Shimano was forced to essentially drop its "shift lever integration" only policy.


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## chicagocmr

BB30 is just an additional crank option. They didn't redo their whole gruppo, it's still current. They just gave you another option with cranks. Just as they have traditional double and compact double cranks, now they offer BB30. Check yourself!


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## b24fsb

roadieKill said:


> welcome to being a sram beta tester





roadieKill said:


> No FD lower ring trim,noisy performance and so on ultimately will make a company like sram have more refresh components than shimano or campy.


campy is the only one that has that, shimano doesnt and why is it that you want to be in the small ring anyway? as for the noise yes i will admit that comparded shimano SRAM is loud but that is in part to the hollow cassette which is crazy light and ALL steel and compared to campy the noise is about the same. as mentioned in other posts the new 09 DA is still heavier than Red and it looks like crap, its like they took there XTR line and made it road ready, might i also mention its about time that a DA compact crank came out. that only took how many years.


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## stevesbike

Today's midrange and up components/frames/wheelsets are all superb. The differences are more about personal preferences than performance. SRAM has been innovative with their new road components, and Red continues that innovation. I've been riding their road components for about a year and it's been flawless based on a training volume of 15-25 hours/week, in all sorts of road conditions. Your equipment isn't going to make much difference-just ride hard.


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## roadieKill

b24fsb said:


> campy is the only one that has that, shimano doesnt and why is it that you want to be in the small ring anyway?


yeah youre right... why do i wanna be on the small ring anyways?? DUH !!!!!
Shimano has trim on both small and large crank rings.




b24fsb said:


> as for the noise yes i will admit that comparded shimano SRAM is loud but that is in part to the hollow cassette which is crazy light and ALL steel and compared to campy the noise is about the same. as mentioned in other posts the new 09 DA is still heavier than Red and it looks like crap, its like they took there XTR line and made it road ready,


No, the noise is NOT the same with campy. Sram operates noisiest of the 3 groups. And the weight is negliable at just a few grams.(approx 100g diff only) And dont go on now showing me weight differences between sram red groupo and DA because sram DONT make pedals or a seat post, so like i said... its negliable.... an avg weight water bottle cage maybe.




b24fsb said:


> might i also mention its about time that a DA compact crank came out. that only took how many years.


first of all its FSA that should get the credit for bringing the compact crank to the mainstream.
And it was the 2003 tour that Tyler Hamilton rode with a compact where pro riders were starting to take notice. Now guess what compact crank he was using????  
And in 2003 Sram wasnt even a fart in the wind.

But "if" its said that the birth of the compact started with Tyler, it really came as a fluke. Tyler was not planning on riding ala-Lance via cadence but rather because of his broken collarbone during the 03 TDF his CSC mechanic gave him a compact crank so he could still ride without having to power over the pedals with his norm crank.


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## b24fsb

first let me ask do you own or have you even ridden a bike with Red? I have Red so i know first hand how it rides and behaves. 

so what if SRAM doesn't make pedals or a seat post, ect. I wouldn't ride shimano pedals anyway, my KEO carbon CrMo pedals are lighter and nicer than DA pedals. people have been crying for a DA compact crank for a long time and it took shimano seeing that they are not on top anymore to try and please the public, whats up with that. As for the noisy driveterrain i think that campy is still louder. the noise is 100% because the cassette is hollow, its resonating inside the hollow cassette and if you have carbon wheels and a carbon frame it just amplifies the noise. to me SRAM took all the weight out that it could but yet it did not sacrifice perfomance and durability at all. you have a very light cassette thats all steel, DA is half Ti and steel and we know that Ti does not last as long as steel. to me if you look at shimano's new DA it is very SRAM inspired, SRAM came in and shook everything up and made change happen. otherwise both campy and shimano would innovate whenever they feel like it. its clear to me that you are not a SRAM fan and thats cool, im not a shimano fan. thats why its great that there are now 3 groupo's to choose from, having options makes manufactures keep trying to one up the other and thats good for us the consumer.


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## MarvinK

Personally, I've had Shimano, Campy and SRAM on this bike, and regardless of the drivetrain the loudest part of my drivetrain has consistently been the Campy (Fulcrum) freehub. No complaints about drivetrain noise here--and I actually like the Campy wheel noise.


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## ghammer

you guys are missing the point altogether. the only reason there's a flurry of movement and innovation is because sram came in and blew the doors away. i have been a campy guy for my entire life but think sram has a slightly better edge. it's lighter, tighter and (aim..fire!) very durable. about as much as campy i'd suggest.

now, that being said, sram represents the latest in mechanical shifting technology. campy got desperate and did its "red shifters", and now is coming out with 11spd. Shimano is going carbon and hiding its cables (almost 10 years too late).

So both shimano and campy have a lot of ground to catch up. it'll be a pain to find parts, as there are still dudes riding 8 and 9 spd out there.

stick with sram. i did and i don't regret it. campy is also very good, but instead of focusing on better shifting/mechanics/longevity (which campy doesn't quite as badly as shimano does), both went nuts with electric, ugly hoods, 11spd, and all.

however, if you hate red that much, sell it to me. i'll be more than glad to relieve it off your hands.


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## Campbelllevy

I just got a new LOOK 555, and outfitted it with full SRAM Red.

I love the group, when it works properly. I've heard from many, many friends with Force and Red say that it works perfectly when (finally) dialed in...Unfortunately, I live in Aspen and no one seems to have any experience working on Sram Red, and thus, I'm having a hell of a time getting everything to work as it should.

But I will say, when working, it is a great component group.

As far as releasing new additions to the group, Sram likes to make money like anyone else...and this is a sure-fire way to get people to continue to buy more...


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## OldRoadGuy

I'd choose SRAM Red over the others if I were buying now.
Great stuff.
Buy a new Gruppo for your next bike and enjoy them all.


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## Coolhand

Have all three groups (Campy, Shimano, SRAM) on three bikes right now- SRAM is the best one.

Better shifting, better customer service (Campy is horrible, Shimano bad).

As for the reliability bunk, SRAM is rebuildable Shimano isn't. They has one recall due to a bad third party bolt which effected a limited number of very early brakesets. No other recalls. 

As for the beta test nonsense, the RED internals are based off the Force and Riva' groups and well tested. If anything the new Shimano, and especially the new Campy 11 speed groups are forcing users to test for them. 

Of, and Shimano killed off any front derailler trim in 7900. So the Red trim is looking pretty good now (although Campy 10 is still king of the front derailler hill IMHO). 

Additionally pluses for Red, fully compatible with Force and Rival (both years). 7900 is not (new cable pull regime). 11 speed obviously will not be. Lighter then 7900, and probably cheaper too. Probably much cheaper then Record, and much much much cheaper then Super Record.


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## encomium

thank you one and all for your comments and opinions....

I will be turning red soon and will post a pic of my Look 565 once I've built it up 

Seeing these pictures have helped too....










https://reviews.roadbikereview.com/blog/team-tibcos-2008-look-team-bikes/


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## FTR

Why the big deal over trim???
I ran Rival for 12 months and have run SRAM's MTB derailleurs for a few years now.
Neither have trim.
Neither rubbed except in extreme cross chain circumstances.
I have trim on my new Red and really cannot say that I think it is at all useful.
In fact it is a PITA when I forget and push the shifter and it moves to the 2nd big ring position when I want it to go to the small.

Learn to tune your derailleur properly instead of whining about how your groupset does not have trim.
And those of you who say that you are using a very competent mechanic, find a more competent one.


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## parker3375

After reading this thread I just have one thing to say. And you call campy fans crazy? Don't you think its a little odd that everyone claims that SRAM is sooo reliable and superior to all the other gruppos when protour guys run duraace cassettes and chains? Several SRAM sponsored riders that prefer to ride force cranks over red? Leipheimer running duraace crings on his tt bike in the tour of Cali? The fact that ricco was upset in the giro about how his bike wouldn't upshift to the big cring when he needed it to? Brake bolts breaking after a month of being availabe? I'm not going to argue that any one group is superior to the other because as previously stated, its all preference. But I happen to think that the adage about those living in a glass house not casting stones seems perfect for this argument. And please let no one ever say that SRAM started the whole ergo hoods revelation, campy 10 speed has been out since 2000 with "ergo" hoods. Not trying to start a flame war at all, just trying to play devil's advocate for the uninformed (new) cyclist out there.


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## FTR

parker3375 said:


> After reading this thread I just have one thing to say. And you call campy fans crazy? Don't you think its a little odd that everyone claims that SRAM is sooo reliable and superior to all the other gruppos when protour guys run duraace cassettes and chains? Several SRAM sponsored riders that prefer to ride force cranks over red? Leipheimer running duraace crings on his tt bike in the tour of Cali? The fact that ricco was upset in the giro about how his bike wouldn't upshift to the big cring when he needed it to? Brake bolts breaking after a month of being availabe? I'm not going to argue that any one group is superior to the other because as previously stated, its all preference. But I happen to think that the adage about those living in a glass house not casting stones seems perfect for this argument. And please let no one ever say that SRAM started the whole ergo hoods revelation, campy 10 speed has been out since 2000 with "ergo" hoods. Not trying to start a flame war at all, just trying to play devil's advocate for the uninformed (new) cyclist out there.


And you were around when Campy first came out to know 100% that they did not have similar issues????


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## parker3375

you got me. I must have forgotten the part of my response where I said campy was perfect forever. Feel free to add/embelish whatever you feel necessary from my original post to complete your argument against what I have seen happen with SRAM. Also please continue to read into my post far beyond what I have stated I should have known that due to my lack of knowledge from 75 years ago would be relevant when comparing brands of today. FYI I ride campy because I got a great deal on it. I almost got red instead but was a few bucks short at the time. Both groups are extremely nice and well put together, but like I said it all comes down to preference. So please, find someone else to argue with about it. :thumbsup:


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## FTR

So your original post was made why??


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## parker3375

Funny, that actually is stated in my original comment. Enjoy re-reading it!


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## MarvinK

Dude... parker... you're trolling in a SRAM forum... in fact, this trolling comprises more than a quarter of your total contribution to RBR.

Campy clearly was thinking ergo before Shimano, and SRAM came in and improved on their efforts. SRAM's excellent ergonomics obviously gained the attention of people at Campy and Shimano. The hoods on the 09 Campy/Shimano look vastly improved.

Each manufacturer has its own pros & cons... and certainly I hope people go to the effort to ride Shimano, Campy or SRAM before they buy it... and not make their decisions based solely on some internet forums.


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## parker3375

Sorry man. Like I said, I wasn't trying to start an argument, just saying what I know. As far as the trolling thing I know I'm new to the whole forum thing but not to bikes. Guess I'll just stop posting things on here that might be viewed as argumentative to some. Again, Im sorry man, was just stating some things that I've seen with a product. I agree with the rest of what you said though. Everyone should try out their options before making any purchases. Ride on.


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## Hagakure

SRAM Red - edit as to not continue the argument.


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## Armchair Spaceman

*Just ride it*



encomium said:


> Hi All
> 
> I've just got my SRAM Red groupset but haven't had a chance to fit it yet. I'm just wondering now if i should keep hold of it or sell it and wait to see the new Dura Ace and Campy offerings for 2009.
> 
> The reason I am disappointed is that SRAM has already upgraded the group for 2009 (new crank/bb30) this is quite interesting as the other two manufacturers seem to have products that are good for 3-4years before any upgrades. I feel that it is a bit of the scam by SRAM to release upgrades a year after launching a brand new gruppo.
> 
> I know that keeping up with new technologies and products is a never ending thing, but to be out of date months after spending quite a lot of money on bicycles parts is a little much....don't you think?



'out of date'??? dude, it's going to be 'out of date' when you can't get 10sp cassettes any more.


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## RC28

parker3375 said:


> After reading this thread I just have one thing to say. And you call campy fans crazy? Don't you think its a little odd that everyone claims that SRAM is sooo reliable and superior to all the other gruppos *1.when protour guys run duraace cassettes and chains*? Several *2. SRAM sponsored riders that prefer to ride force cranks over red*? Leipheimer* 3.running duraace crings on his tt bike in the tour of Cali?* The fact that *4. ricco was upset in the giro about how his bike wouldn't upshift to the big cring *when he needed it to? * 5.Brake bolts breaking after a month of being availabe*? I'm not going to argue that any one group is superior to the other because as previously stated, its all preference. But I happen to think that the adage about those living in a glass house not casting stones seems perfect for this argument. And please let no one ever say that SRAM started the whole ergo hoods revelation, campy 10 speed has been out since 2000 with "ergo" hoods. Not trying to start a flame war at all, just trying to play devil's advocate for the uninformed (new) cyclist out there.



1. Don't know about why they use the DA chain, but the casette in most instances was because they wanted specific cogset ratios that are not available with SRAM.

2. Most of the instances that I've seen have been riders running *RIVAL* cranksets and it has been thoroughly documented here and elsewhere that , again , it is an availability issue: Red is not available in the longer lengths that those specific riders used (most often 180 mm IIRC)

3. Again, availability. SRAM didn't have a 55T chainring for LL to use . I recall seeing pictures of him later in the season with a prototype SRAM TT ring.

4. Side effects of the MICERA he's been taking? ;-)

5. You are right on this one. Manufacturing defect for the bolts. Good thing they caught it relatively quickly.

Really, most of the above are issues that have to deal with availability of specific combinations of components. Maybe if SRAM sees enough demand for those combinations then they can decide to invest the money in the necessary manufacturing tooling to do this.


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## dmar836

Was disappointed with my Force group at first due the coarse "clackin" downshifts of the front DR. Adjustments didn't seem to help. After several hundred miles, all smooth now. 
As for the post of accidentally upshifting due to front trim? That's not easy to do as just a tap or soft click will downshift(or eliminate the trim) but it takes more throw and pressure to upshift. Front DRs have always been a pain in most any groupo. The benefit of trim is not for crossed up noise elimination IMO but rather to trim the slack so that the actual anticipated upshift is much quicker when you need it.


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## funhog1

Parker, er Encomium? (I've lost track....blush) can you post us some pics of this gruppo? This particular gruppo is legendary...for causing so much scussion. Even if it's still in the box. We gotta have some pics.


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## Bry03cobra

I have about 800-1000 miles on my new bike with RED. Figured I would post an update. 
--------------
I was starting to notice some shifting problems. Figured there was some cable strech, after adressing that, still not right. Took the chain off and re-alligned the rear der with the cogs. As I was finishing up I realized the hanger was bent. I picked up another one at the shop, readjusted. All good. First hanger was mighty flimsey(cervelo R3), the repl hanger was much thicker and nicer quality. (First one looked to be forged alloy, the repl looked machined). I also took some links out of the chain. I tend to think they shift better with a shorter chain. But shops leave them long so beginners don't go "BIG-BIG" combo. That has been my only issue with RED. It wasn't even their prob, it was the frame.
-----------------------
I kinda feel that RED is no better or worse than Duraace or campy. Only question with RED is long term. I had duraace 10 on my last bike, and it was trouble free for 3 years. Only went to RED beacause I liked the hoods better then DA. I have never used or tried campy, but the wheels I was going to use on the new bike where shimano, so I chose btw RED and DA10.


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## critchie

Let me pile on. First, I am biased -- I ride Red. I have ridden the new shitmano (it's not much of an upgrade -- except the price)! Oh, I rode Shimano STI (various groups) for a decade plus, switched to Campy then SRAM Force, now Red. I could switch back to Campy anytime, but Shimano has nothing to offer save the front shifting. I have also ridden the new Super Record and it is what you would suspect -- really sweet, but the price will be prohibitive.

Just in case you are wondering, yes I am in the bike business. RIDE RED.


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## idunno

if you're truly not satisfied you could pawn the red and go for the 09 campy super record...but in my opinion what you have with your current gruppo is an amazing set...i wouldn't ride shimano, they're good sets dont get me wrong, but with their price increases and durability as compared to sram i dont see any reason to


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## spinwax

I just built myself a Red bike today. I have heard mention of trim on the front Der. Mine does not seem to have it. Doesn't really need it, but if it does have it, mine doesn't seem too. 

Can anyone feel me in?


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## b24fsb

you have trim in the big ring, if you dont have trim them you probably have to much tension in the front der. cable.


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## RC28

spinwax said:


> I just built myself a Red bike today. I have heard mention of trim on the front Der. Mine does not seem to have it. Doesn't really need it, but if it does have it, mine doesn't seem too.
> 
> Can anyone feel me in?


To clarify for the "umpteenth" time...

As b24fsb mentioned, Red has trim for the front derailleur in the big ring...you probably have too much cable tension.

And ALL SRAM road groups have front derailleur trim. It's just implemented differently. Force and Rival have trim for the small ring whereas Red has trim for the big ring.


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## spinwax

RC28 said:


> To clarify for the "umpteenth" time...
> 
> As b24fsb mentioned, Red has trim for the front derailleur in the big ring...you probably have too much cable tension.
> 
> And ALL SRAM road groups have front derailleur trim. It's just implemented differently. Force and Rival have trim for the small ring whereas Red has trim for the big ring.


Thanks for the info.


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## jk1737

*SRAM RED crank will not fit together - CRAP!*

Just bought a the red group and the left crank arm won't even fit on the spindle. It's 5mm away from sliding on. I called SRAM and the lady told me it was supposed to be that tight. I'd have to lay my frame down and beat it with a sledge hammer to get it on. I asked her how I'd ever get it off if I beat it on there and she said it was self removing once it was installed. She's an idiot! Maybe she was the janitor and didn't know what the f*#k she was talking about. This is crazy and very frustrating. I'm sure the gear is good but they won't fix this problem I have with their crank not fitting, so I think I know where to tell them it will fit. :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:


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## david462

jk1737 said:


> Just bought a the red group and the left crank arm won't even fit on the spindle. It's 5mm away from sliding on. I called SRAM and the lady told me it was supposed to be that tight. I'd have to lay my frame down and beat it with a sledge hammer to get it on. I asked her how I'd ever get it off if I beat it on there and she said it was self removing once it was installed. She's an idiot! Maybe she was the janitor and didn't know what the f*#k she was talking about. This is crazy and very frustrating. I'm sure the gear is good but they won't fix this problem I have with their crank not fitting, so I think I know where to tell them it will fit. :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:


answered his post in his thread. i laughed when i read it.


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## b24fsb

jk1737 said:


> Just bought a the red group and the left crank arm won't even fit on the spindle. It's 5mm away from sliding on. I called SRAM and the lady told me it was supposed to be that tight. I'd have to lay my frame down and beat it with a sledge hammer to get it on. I asked her how I'd ever get it off if I beat it on there and she said it was self removing once it was installed. She's an idiot! Maybe she was the janitor and didn't know what the f*#k she was talking about. This is crazy and very frustrating. I'm sure the gear is good but they won't fix this problem I have with their crank not fitting, so I think I know where to tell them it will fit. :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:



umm the crank is self extracting, if you are not familiar with that system then there is one of two things that you need to know. one read the installation instructions and two get an actual bike tech to put your stuff on because it sounds like your not the most experienced and this groupo is not like putting on shimano or campy for that matter


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## Wheel Right

For what it is worth. Over the last 23 years I have ridden Campy Super Record & Record, Shimano DuraAce, and now SRAM RED. I am a tall and big rider. 6'3" tall 215 lbs. I value durability, rebuildability, and low maintenance in a groupset. 

I ride SRAM RED because it is the most durable groupset I have ever ridden over the last 23 years.

1. I typically go through cassettes every 2000 - 3000 Kilometers . . . I have over 8000 kilometers on my SRAM RED PowerDome cassette, and I have no need to change it.
2. I use the Rival OCT crankset with RED rings. It is noticeably stiffer than Shimano DA 7800, especially with power transfer to the chain ring from the NDS crank arm. It weighs the same as Campy 11 speed Super Record cranks! These are the cranks I want under me when sprinting or climbing.
3. Campy does not warranty their products for riders > 80kg (172lbs). 
4. Ergonomics are great for me and my hands.
5. Ceramics in the derailleur pulley wheels, and bottom bracket.
6. Rebuildable.
7. It also happens to be the lightest groupset available, even when I put the Rival Cranks on the bike.
8. Most durable, lightest, oh yeah, did I mention least expensive . . . no brainer!

As for the noise in the cassette, I put foam tape in the inside of the cassette and do not notice it being noisy . . . it sure is durable though!

Even though I prefer my SRAM RED gruppo to all other currently available gruppos, I am sure that I would enjoy riding my bikes just as much even if I had to go back to friction shifting 10 speeds from the 1980s. The biggest improvements to riding I can make are in leg strength and lung capacity . . . SRAM, Shimano & Campy can't help me on those fronts. I am very impressed, however, that SRAM has enabled me to worry less about adjusting and replacing components, and focus more on the ride!


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## teffisk

Also a huge fan of SRAM. but I think its funny that the OP's complaint about RED upgrading to BB30 (even though it is probably irrelevant to him) is an upgrade that neither shimano nor campy has made. So why would you want to change to a group for having less available options that are really just behind the time? I think that is just another way sram is keeping everybody else on their toes. Because they dont have the long reputation of campy or shimano, they have to take the initiative and come up with new innovations first, yet another benefit to the people from sram.


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## Svooterz

roadieKill said:


> [...] And dont go on now showing me weight differences between sram red groupo and DA because sram DONT make pedals or a seat post, so like i said... its negliable.... an avg weight water bottle cage maybe.


Well sorry to pick on you on this argument, but your point is not very strong here. When Shimano shows their official groupset weights, it's for the 8 usual parts (shifters, cranks, bb, chain, derrrs + cassette). They do not include the pedals and seatpost. So when SRAM claims an official weight under 2 kg, you are perfectly entitled to compare it with Shimano's 2300 grams or so for a DA 7800 groupset and 2100 grams for DA 7900. Feel free to adjust the digits by about ±50 grams, I wanted to give ballpark estimates.

Bottom line, Red isn't only "an avg. water bottle cage weight" under DA. It's two heavy/cheap alloy cages lighter than DA 7900 and a couple of _structural_ parts lighter than DA 7800.

When it comes to it anyway, best weight-to-buck ratio goes to Rival, with a weight of about 2200 grams... And a MSRP quite close to a third of the newer Dura Ace offering.


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## onefour02

i got no idea why the threadstarter is *****ing about sram red.

i love my sram red and super record.

i hope shimano tries to close the gap in the looks department. not buying 7900 cos it looks like poo.


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## MarvinK

I really can't see any reason to trash SRAM because of their continual improvements. All SRAM Rival/Force/Red components are interchangeable--even between years. If you had 07 SRAM Force, and you really wanted the better shifting from Red--just replace the shifters. No other changes required.

Right now, neither Shimano or Campy can say that with the 2009 groups. There are substantial compatibility issues between their newest technologies and older technologies (or even different 09 groups) 

If you're worried about protecting your investment or not being left behind when new technology comes out, it seems like SRAM is actually a BETTER choice.


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## wiz465

jk1737, Did you get your crank problem fixed? I am having a similar problem but before installing I noticed that my bottom bracket was not long enought for my frame. If I had installed it I might have the same proble with getting my crank to tighten down.
let me know if you hear of a soultion.
Thanks Rex


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## mimason

After 500 miles with Red I am completely satisfied coming from 7800. I was debating going with 7900 for the new ride though. The 7900 was butter smooth and quiet not to dissimiliar from 7800....but I did not like the 7900 shifters/hoods since my thumb kept resting on the exposed metal where some of the shifting mech. is not covered. It turns out that I like the shifters much more ergonomically on RED and I am a big fan of the fast RD. I think RED needs a tad more tweaking to dial things in just right but I am glad I went RED. The hidden benefit is that I will maintenence my bike more ofter which is agood thing. I suppose the only upgrade may be the higher end Campy 11 speeds. No regrets here. Lovin' it.


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