# Carbon Dropouts



## sdcycling (Aug 27, 2008)

I ride a Look 585 with an all-carbon HSC 5 SL fork. The dropouts are carbon. I normally ride Campy Shamal wheels. Like most wheels, the axle is knurled where it comes into contact with the carbon dropouts. The dropouts began to show wear. In fact, small grooves formed on the insides of the dropouts. I have had the bike for less than 2 years. Under Look's 5-year warranty, I shipped the fork back to Look USA to get it replaced under warranty. They claimed that it was my fault because I had tightened the skewers too tight. This begs the question, "How much is too tight?" I know that this is facetious, but it is not as if I carry a torque wrench with me on my rides. On the other hand, we have lawyer tabs if we do not tighten the skewers enough. I digress. The bottom line is that Look came up with a compromise. They sent me an used fork to replace my old fork. My local Look dealer installed the used fork that Look sent me as a replacement. I rode on it 3 times. On the first ride, I heard a loud bang when I hit a small bump. I attributed it to a carbon rear wheel that I had recently built up. On the second ride, I heard no bangs. On the the third ride, I head two loud bangs while I was on a group ride. It freaked everyone out, especially me. I took the bike back to my local Look dealer. They were able to duplicate the loud bang too. Moreover, they think that the used fork that Look USA sent me is cracked. They encouraged me to get a replacement, which is what I am attempting to do through Look USA. Is anyone else having problems with excessive wear of their carbon dropouts?


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## ezzy (Jul 30, 2006)

i have had my 585 for a year. no excessive wear on the dropouts though i can see slight imprints of the "knurled" QR. Also i take great care not to use more force than necessary when closing the QR - for me that is the least amount of force needed to make the QR close.


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## RHankey (Sep 7, 2007)

If you truely suspect you have a cracked fork, you should stop riding it immediately, as broken forks result in very nasty crashes.

Loud knocking sounds are commonly an inidication of a loose headset.

Many wheels, especially with cartridge bearings require a sufficiently tight QR (as in, leave an imprint in your hand when tightening) to pre-load the bearings.

A suficiently tightend QR also stiffens up the forks, as the fork legs become one with that of the axle.


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## jun1662 (Dec 15, 2004)

Yeah I agree How tight is too tight? my HSC 5 fork is almost 6 months old and am carefull about this issue as well, but for the purpose of simple guide, for QR what is the best simple guide other than the palm imprint? thanks all


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## Originalyappa (Aug 20, 2007)

In the past on my Merckx, i have thought i have tighten my QR very firmly, but sadly found out on several occasions that it was not tight enough. Result being, rear wheel moving out of line and burning the inside of my chain stay!!!!! :mad2: 

I now naturally tighten my QR 'very' firmly to prevent the same thing happening to my new 585. I hope its not too tight... but can not bring myself to not tighten them too loosely either!


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## ezzy (Jul 30, 2006)

You won't have a problem with the rear dropout as it is made of aluminium (including model year 2008 I believe). I tighten the rear much firmer than the front. I believe we were discussing imprints on the fork which has carbon dropouts as opposed to the rear
/ezzy


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*thoughts...*

I could see wear being a problem if you transport the bike and take the wheel on and off 6-8 times a week. Use skewers without the knurled faces, like Mavics.

The loud sounds that your heard are the result of a loose headset. Your LBS must have poor mechanics, if they can't properly adjust the headset.


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## sdcycling (Aug 27, 2008)

*Update*

Hi C-40,

Sorry, the problems that I had with the used fork that Look sent me were not due to a loose head set. The fork had been in a crash. Instead of Look giving me new fork under warranty, they chose to send me a used fork that was damaged. It did not work out. I am lucky that I did not get hurt or worse in an accident. 

Meanwhile, I have replaced the used Look fork with a new Reynolds Ouzo Pro integrated fork. My Look 585 had a nice ride with my old Look fork, the Reynolds fork makes the ride even sweeter. It takes a lot of edge off bumps, so in the end I am very happy with my new ride. The Reynolds fork also has alloy dropouts. I agree with you, however, that filing down the knurls would probably help with respect to wear issues.

Look would not cover my old fork under warranty because they claimed that I had tightened them too tight. Interestingly, Lennard Zinn just came out with an article on velonews that dealt with dropouts that showed wear due to a skewer that had gotten too loose. I returned the fork to Look because with the wear that had already occurred, I did not think that the fork would be safe to ride over the course of the 5-year warranty. A groove was being worn in the dropouts. At some point, I felt as though the dropouts would fail.

-sdcycling


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## chas (Aug 10, 2006)

sdcycling said:


> Hi C-40,
> 
> Sorry, the problems that I had with the used fork that Look sent me were not due to a loose head set. The fork had been in a crash. Instead of Look giving me new fork under warranty, they chose to send me a used fork that was damaged. It did not work out. I am lucky that I did not get hurt or worse in an accident.
> 
> ...


sdcycling,

I'm sorry we weren't able to work this issue out with you. There are a couple of things I would like to clarify though.

1. The wear on your fork was not due to a manufacturing defect, it was due to improper wheel/quick release installation. As such, we determined that this was not covered under warranty. Since the indentation in the dropout was minor (less than 1mm deep), we concluded that your original fork was safe to continue riding and offered to return it.

2. You did not want your fork back and became "emotional" on the phone, so the original warranty rep offered to get second and third opinions from some of our other staff - including me. Everyone here came to the same conclusion: this was not a manufacturing defect, and not a defective product, and therefore would not be replaced under warranty. 

3. You followed up with an email citing your coach and a pro that he also coaches, essentially saying that this was not acceptable. So we sent you a matching used fork that we had here at no charge.

4. Since the only new forks we stock are nude carbon, we save these old forks in case someone really wants a fork to match a frame color from previous years. We check these out thoroughly before sending them out to people, but if the fork you received was damaged, I apologize. We're still waiting to get it back from your shop to check it, but I agree with C-40 that the sounds you described are usually indicative of a headset that was probably not adjusted correctly. 

5. That being said, this has opened our eyes to the liabilities of sending out product like this, and we've decided to stop doing it.

6. Since your original fork was not deemed a warranty, we offered you a crash replacement discount to replace your fork, but it sounds like you decided to go with a Reynolds instead.

I'm glad you're enjoying your 585 with the Reynolds fork. They make great products (I ride some of their wheels myself), and it sounds like going with aluminum dropouts is probably a good idea for you.

Regards,
*[email protected]*


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## PigmyRacer (Oct 3, 2007)

chas said:


> sdcycling,
> 
> I'm sorry we weren't able to work this issue out with you. There are a couple of things I would like to clarify though.
> 
> ...


Frankly, it sounds to me like Chas and Look are in the right here. A lot of people use knurled QR skewers with carbon dropouts. Yeah they make an indentation, but that is virtually unavoidable and not a cause for concern.


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## Johnnysmooth (Jun 10, 2004)

My rule for quick releases:
Tighten nut just to the point that the lever begins to feel resistance when halfway through its throw. That's it and I have never ever had a problem.

But just the same, will ck my 595 dropouts


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