# Looking for opinions...



## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

When I first discovered bikesdirect, I quickly found the titaniums and fell in love. I really love the look of titanium, and I like the idea of it being a very durable material. Initially, I had planned on getting a LeChampion SL, but more recently I have favored SRAM and was therefore planning on getting the LeChampion Fire.

But now I don't know. I'm thinking the Immortal Fire might be a better option for me. I wanted to solicit opinions here (I'm pretty indecisive). Here are my considerations, in no particular order:


When I got fitted, I discovered that I have ridiculously long legs. The overall sizing of the 62cm seems to be a slightly better match for me than the 59cm LeChampion
Though I love the look of Titanium, carbon fiber is more popular, and is favored by serious racers
The Immortal Fire is $200 cheaper, and includes a considerably better wheelset; also, a CF seatpost
The LeChampion Heat comes with stickers that are solid red; I personally dislike the look of these stickers
I believe the Immortal is at least a bit lighter than the LeChamp Ti

I've never ridden carbon, never ridden Titanium (this will be my first road bike, btw). I know that the CF frame is a bit more susceptible to damage, but understand I can get it replaced for like $500 in the event of a crash. So, I'm really torn. Any advice would be appreciated.


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## Dresden (May 26, 2009)

Another option would be to get the Rival spec-ed Le Champion Ti Heat and use the money saved to upgrade the wheels (Nashbar has the Ksyrium Elite wheelset for $399, and there are plenty of other options for good wheels in that price range.) The solid letter decals on the Heat aren't as nice looking as the outline decals on the Team, but at least they're not that garish red that's on the Fire. That'd also free up some $ for a different saddle(tends to be something people commonly change to suit them better) or a different stem which you might want to switch to fine-tune your fit. And you'd have a spare set of wheels.



Edit: Oops, they're sold out of the Le Champion Ti Heat in size 59. Nevermind.


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## lardo (Aug 16, 2011)

I went with their Le Champion Ti bike because it'll probably be the last bike I need. Carbon fiber seems too expendable and BD's Ti lineup is usually just as light as their carbon fiber bikes.


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## Mike Overly (Sep 28, 2005)

BD for the best buys in titanium and steel. Their CF has always struck me as last-last year's stuff ... which is of course the curse of buying in the latest-material bracket.

The Heat looks to be the equal of Ti bikes going for 2-3x the money. Check the reviews on this site -- very solid steed.


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## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

Mike Overly said:


> BD for the best buys in titanium and steel. Their CF has always struck me as last-last year's stuff ... which is of course the curse of buying in the latest-material bracket.


I actually had kinda looked at that as a knock against Ti; it's viewed as last decade's stuff. Or, at least I should say, if you're not going to be concerned about riding a titanium bike, it doesn't make sense to be concerned about having the very latest in CF frame designs.


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## Mike Overly (Sep 28, 2005)

MattintheCrown said:


> I actually had kinda looked at that as a knock against Ti; it's viewed as last decade's stuff. Or, at least I should say, if you're not going to be concerned about riding a titanium bike, it doesn't make sense to be concerned about having the very latest in CF frame designs.


Another way to look at this: Steel and Ti are mature frame tech, so it's pretty easy to compare those BD offerings to the rest of the market in terms of value. CF frames are getting better and cheaper to produce with each passing day, but I don't think we'll see that reflected even in BD prices. Those Immortal frames look to be a 7+year-old design, prices haven't budged, and the market has moved on at those price points.

BTW, I'm in no way knocking frame materials that are "older" popularity-wise. Just recognizing that save for a few gimmicks like twisty tubes and massive weld-glooped headsets, steel and Ti aren't fast-moving targets on the price/value radar.


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## lardo (Aug 16, 2011)

BD's carbon lineup is a little dated, but that's not really a bad thing considering bikes are just toys for grownups.

I agree with Mike Overly. However, BD prices are low to begin with.Similarly equipped carbon non-BD bikes cost about doubled compared to a BD bike. Part of their low price is "out-dated" design, which is perfect for me. I don't need to pay top dollar for gimmicks and a perception that I'm getting amazing technology. 

It's also a good idea to keep in mind that carbon is a flexible platform in terms of design. The bike industry wants people to fuel profits and they do that by rapidly changing the mold/platform of carbon frames to add a few gimmicks and/or look more edgy/racy.


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## Dresden (May 26, 2009)

If you wanted a carbon framed bike that doesn't look as dated as the Immortal, you could get the Le Champion CF Rival and upgrade the wheels on that. 

SRAM Rival Road Bikes, Roadbikes - 2011 Motobecane Le Champion CF SRAM Rival

or get the carbon Le Champion Fire if you're set on having SRAM Force.

SRAM Force Road Bikes, Roadbikes - 2011 Motobecane Le Champion Fire SRAM Force


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## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

Dresden said:


> If you wanted a carbon framed bike that doesn't look as dated as the Immortal, you could get the Le Champion CF Rival and upgrade the wheels on that.
> 
> SRAM Rival Road Bikes, Roadbikes - 2011 Motobecane Le Champion CF SRAM Rival


From what I can tell, the 62cm Immortal is a way better fit than the 61cm LeChampion based on my measurements. If I go CF, it would probably be the Immortal (plus, it's cheaper when you consider the wheels).


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## Dresden (May 26, 2009)

Just tossing out some options. I have no experience with the Bikes Direct carbon bikes. I do have a Le Champion Ti and love it. Mine has the solid decals which I'm not crazy about. I've switched some parts on mine(it was originally the Ultegra, 105, FSA mix of parts.) It's Rival now and I'm about to switch the FSA crankset to another bike. Haven't had any problems with the FSA--I just need a crank for the other bike and figure this would be a good time to make my Le Champion Ti full Rival. After the switch I think I'm going to remove the decals on mine. Just waiting until after the crank change in case something goes bad during the change since removing the decals supposedly voids the frame warranty.


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## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

Dresden said:


> Just tossing out some options. I have no experience with the Bikes Direct carbon bikes. I do have a Le Champion Ti and love it. Mine has the solid decals which I'm not crazy about. I've switched some parts on mine(it was originally the Ultegra, 105, FSA mix of parts.) It's Rival now and I'm about to switch the FSA crankset to another bike. Haven't had any problems with the FSA--I just need a crank for the other bike and figure this would be a good time to make my Le Champion Ti full Rival. After the switch I think I'm going to remove the decals on mine. Just waiting until after the crank change in case something goes bad during the change since removing the decals supposedly voids the frame warranty.


So I take it there's no clear-coat on your frame?


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## Dresden (May 26, 2009)

I have one of the earliest titanium bikes from Bike Direct. My decals appear to be under very thin clearcoat, but I'm not sure the entire frame is clearcoated. The DB Ti decal on the seat tube definitely is not under clearcoat and the Motobecane decal just under it on the seat tube has more of an edge than the other decals on my bike. I'm hoping it's not too much of a chore to remove the top tube and down tube decals and make it look presentable. I'll probably be doing it within the week, so I guess I'll find out. I've read comments from people saying the later titanium bikes don't have clearcoat, but I don't know about that for sure.


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## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

Alright, let's get down to the heart of the matter. If we consider the Heat (Rival) a base-level, this is what we have with these two model lines:

Trim.....Immortal........LeChamp Ti
-------------------------------------------------
Rival.....base.............base

Force...+$300...........+$500

Red......+$600...........+$500

Now, with the Immortal, the Heat gets you Ksyrium Equipe wheels and the Rival group. The extra you pay for the Fire ($300) gets you Ksyrium Elites, and the Force group. The extra you pay on top of that for the Inferno basically just gets you the Red group.

With the LeChamp Ti, the Heat gets you Aksium wheels and the Full Rival group. The extra you pay for the Fire ($500) gets you Ksyrium Equipe wheels and the Force group. The extra you pay on top of that for the Inferno gets you the Red group as well as Ksyrium Elite wheels.

The price difference between the Aksiums and the Equipes is $75, the price difference between the Equipes and the Elites is $160. Either the Immortal Fire is under-priced, or the LeChamp Ti Fire is over-priced. The Heat-fire jump with the Immortal gets you +$160 wheels and the Rival group for +$300, whereas the same jump with the LeChamp Ti gets you just +$75 wheels yet costs +$500. Oddly, the jump to Inferno is smaller with the LeChamp Ti, even though you get the +$160 wheels, with no similar upgrade in the Inferno line.

It strikes me that the Immortal Fire is a phenomenal deal and that the Immortal Inferno and LeChamp Ti Fire are comparatively poor bargains.


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## Dresden (May 26, 2009)

Once you factor in that the Le Champion Ti frameset sells for $400 more than the Immortal frameset, the bargain aspect evens up considerably between the two Fire bikes.

(BikeIsland.com)
(BikeIsland.com)

Those are the framesets with full carbon forks, but neither Fire complete bike has a full carbon fork, so the price comparison is probably still valid.


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## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

Dresden said:


> Once you factor in that the Le Champion Ti frameset sells for $400 more than the Immortal frameset, the bargain aspect evens up considerably between the two Fire bikes.
> 
> (BikeIsland.com)
> (BikeIsland.com)
> ...


I suppose, but then the Heats become a major mis-match, with the Ti being an incredible bargain; -$500 drops you from Force to Rival, but only costs you $75 worth of wheels, where the drop to Heat in the Immortal only saves you $300, and costs you $160 worth of wheels.

Maybe that's why the Ti head done been sold out (noteworthy: the Heat claims a 2012 model year, whereas the Fire claims 2011).


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## Dresden (May 26, 2009)

The truth of the matter is that all of the bikes you've been considering are tremendous bargains. My advice would be that if you want carbon, get carbon and if you want titanium, get titanium. Wheels are something that can easily be switched. You're much less likely to switch out a frame.


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## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

Dresden said:


> The truth of the matter is that all of the bikes you've been considering are tremendous bargains. My advice would be that if you want carbon, get carbon and if you want titanium, get titanium. Wheels are something that can easily be switched. You're much less likely to switch out a frame.


Problem is, I don't really have any huge preference one way or another; I'm ambivalent wrt the carbon/titanium issue.


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## paulfeng (Jun 10, 2011)

MattintheCrown said:


> Problem is, I don't really have any huge preference one way or another; I'm ambivalent wrt the carbon/titanium issue.


In that case... go titanium!


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## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

paulfeng said:


> In that case... go titanium!


Like yours that much, huh? They certainly look pretty, but I worry about those bright red decals on the Fire. 

Curious to see how Dresden's removal project works out.


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## paulfeng (Jun 10, 2011)

MattintheCrown said:


> Like yours that much, huh? They certainly look pretty, but I worry about those bright red decals on the Fire.
> 
> Curious to see how Dresden's removal project works out.


It's funny, while I'm a boring basic black kind of guy (and have the SL), I kinda like those red decals. But if I had my druthers, I'd have the subtle outline decals, which by far look the best (as seems to be the overwhelming consensus).

Regarding decal removal, I can't imagine, clear-coat or not, that acetone won't do the job fine.

Or just get the Rival Ti bike. I don't have SRAM experience, but everything I read says it's mainly weight difference between groups. As for wheels, the claimed weight difference between the current-year Aksiums and K.Equipes is negligible. I don't know about stiffness, but don't think it would be a huge factor.

(For what it's worth, I have experienced flex with the Equipes - rims got muddy when I unintentionally went CX, then climbing out of the saddle I could hear the rim/brakepad rubbing with my pads adjusted close. Can't imagine that Aksiums are significantly worse. While on the topic of flex, I have experienced it with [2009] K.Elites as well, in the front wheel - magnet was set too close to the sensor, and during a sprint the two banged into each other; so in addition to leaving more clearance between brakepad and rim, I had to leave more room between magnet and sensor. So I tend to believe those saying that these low spoke count wheels flex more.)


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## paulfeng (Jun 10, 2011)

Matt, one other note - when you consider fit, remember that the Ti Heat comes with a 6 degree stem, while the Fire comes with a 17 degree stem. One of those may be much better for helping you achieve your desired saddle to bar drop (also considering whether flipped down or up).

I like this tool for helping figure stem configurations:
Stem Chart


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## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

paulfeng said:


> It's funny, while I'm a boring basic black kind of guy (and have the SL), I kinda like those red decals. But if I had my druthers, I'd have the subtle outline decals, which by far look the best (as seems to be the overwhelming consensus).


Agreed. I'm actually not sure I'd hate it; I'd have to see it in person. It might actually be ok.



> Regarding decal removal, I can't imagine, clear-coat or not, that acetone won't do the job fine.


The worry would be that it would leave a sort of discoloration in the area where the stickers were. No doubt you could get them off, but if there were clear-coat on part of the frame, but not the rest, it might look strange.



> Or just get the Rival Ti bike. I don't have SRAM experience, but everything I read says it's mainly weight difference between groups.


The Rival is sold out. The Force group is also prettier. 



> As for wheels, the claimed weight difference between the current-year Aksiums and K.Equipes is negligible. I don't know about stiffness, but don't think it would be a huge factor.


My main problem with that is that I've heard those are some real turds. If I did somehow manage to get the Heat (say they came back in stock), I'd sell the Aksiums and buy Equipes or Elites. I really like the idea of having the elites, because they have the kickass spoke nipple setup. But I'd rather not sell anything, because I'm very lazy when it comes to that sort of thing (listing, shipping).



> (For what it's worth, I have experienced flex with the Equipes - rims got muddy when I unintentionally went CX, then climbing out of the saddle I could hear the rim/brakepad rubbing with my pads adjusted close. Can't imagine that Aksiums are significantly worse. While on the topic of flex, I have experienced it with [2009] K.Elites as well, in the front wheel - magnet was set too close to the sensor, and during a sprint the two banged into each other; so in addition to leaving more clearance between brakepad and rim, I had to leave more room between magnet and sensor. So I tend to believe those saying that these low spoke count wheels flex more.)


Good to know. That doesn't surprise me. All of these rims are seriously low on the spoke count.


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## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

paulfeng said:


> Matt, one other note - when you consider fit, remember that the Ti Heat comes with a 6 degree stem, while the Fire comes with a 17 degree stem. One of those may be much better for helping you achieve your desired saddle to bar drop (also considering whether flipped down or up).
> 
> I like this tool for helping figure stem configurations:
> Stem Chart


Hey, thanks for that link. I hadn't even noticed the differing stems on the two models. I wonder why that is. 

I'm thinking I'll likely have to swap out the stem in any event. The fitting I got at the lbs had me with a 36.8" inseam (I'm 6'1"). I have long arms, but still; I see a 80mm stem in my future.


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## paulfeng (Jun 10, 2011)

MattintheCrown said:


> My main problem with that is that I've heard those [Aksiums] are some real turds.


Are there many reviews out of the 2012 Aksiums, which have a new rim?

Perhaps take them to your LBS and pay them to go over them before you ride 'em (stress-relieve, tension, true). So if it's a build issue, rather than bad basic ingredients...

But - I don't want to be responsible for leading you to a decision you'll regret. I just have a hard time believing that the Aksiums are _that_ bad. I suppose at your height you're not a Bantamweight either. (Nor am I, but at several inches shorter.)


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## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

paulfeng said:


> Are there many reviews out of the 2012 Aksiums, which have a new rim?
> 
> Perhaps take them to your LBS and pay them to go over them before you ride 'em (stress-relieve, tension, true). So if it's a build issue, rather than bad basic ingredients...


Some certainly seem to have an ok experience with them, but at the end of the day, they're a low-grade wheel. 



> But - I don't want to be responsible for leading you to a decision you'll regret. I just have a hard time believing that the Aksiums are _that_ bad. I suppose at your height you're not a Bantamweight either. (Nor am I, but at several inches shorter.)


I'm trying to get down to 165 by the time I'm able to ride outside once more, so I'm not overly concerned with strength or flex. 

Maybe I'm being unfair to the Aksiums. Then again, the Immortal comes with Elites. :cornut:


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## Dresden (May 26, 2009)

I removed the top tube and down tube decals from my Le Champion Ti tonight. Decided to keep the decals on the seat tube. It was a pretty easy job. Soaked paper towels in acetone, wrapped them around the decals then wrapped saran wrap around that. I only left them on there for about 5 minutes, longer might have been even better but getting the decals off was still not a problem. I had bought a plastic scraper but didn't even need to use it. Just took some rubbing with paper towels and acetone. I did the top tube first then the down tube. Might have gone quicker if I'd have wrapped both tubes at the same time, but it was still only about a 30 minute job.

There was some ghosting of the decals that remained after the initial removal. It took about another hour of rubbing to get rid of that. Looks like its completely gone, but I haven't seen it out in the sunlight yet.

I can't tell any difference between the areas I removed the decals from and the other areas of the frame, so I'm happy with the way things turned out.


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## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

Dresden said:


> I removed the top tube and down tube decals from my Le Champion Ti tonight. Decided to keep the decals on the seat tube. It was a pretty easy job. Soaked paper towels in acetone, wrapped them around the decals then wrapped saran wrap around that. I only left them on there for about 5 minutes, longer might have been even better but getting the decals off was still not a problem. I had bought a plastic scraper but didn't even need to use it. Just took some rubbing with paper towels and acetone. I did the top tube first then the down tube. Might have gone quicker if I'd have wrapped both tubes at the same time, but it was still only about a 30 minute job.
> 
> There was some ghosting of the decals that remained after the initial removal. It took about another hour of rubbing to get rid of that. Looks like its completely gone, but I haven't seen it out in the sunlight yet.
> 
> I can't tell any difference between the areas I removed the decals from and the other areas of the frame, so I'm happy with the way things turned out.


Glad to hear it went well for you. You should upload some pics of that bare titanium.

Notable is that some of the ghosting may simply be due to age. If I've understood you correctly, you've had the bike for some time. Presumably, the titanium without the decals on it weathered a bit differently from the titanium with the decals on it. I'm not sure about the best way to shine titanium up, but if there's any ghosting, that might make it go away. So I guess you didn't run into the dreaded clearcoat, then (or clearcoat is no match for acetone).


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## JDill (Feb 5, 2012)

MattintheCrown said:


> ...but more recently I have favored SRAM and was therefore planning on getting the LeChampion Fire.
> 
> But now I don't know. I'm thinking the Immortal Fire might be a better option for me.


I'm in the process of making this exact decision. Still riding steel and no experience with carbon or Ti.

I was leaning toward the LeChamion Fire Ti for the durability but also like the looks and features of the the Immortal Fire, as you outlined. Size wise I am looking at the 59's as I am 6'1" and have a 35" (90.5) inseam. The Immortal has 1" more clearance in stand over height, which I would welcome.

I've seriously flipped back and forth between these two and have not decided for sure yet.


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## flatsix911 (Jun 28, 2009)

That is a nice looking Ti frame ... just remove the decals if you like it better :thumbsup:

2011 Motobecane Le Champion Ti Heat


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## JDill (Feb 5, 2012)

paulfeng said:


> Matt, one other note - when you consider fit, remember that the Ti Heat comes with a 6 degree stem, while the Fire comes with a 17 degree stem.


Hey Paul, from the pictures on the BD site it looks the other way around, like the Ti Heat has the 17 degree stem. Where do they list the stem angles at in their specs?

Thanks,
Jeff


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## paulfeng (Jun 10, 2011)

JDill said:


> Hey Paul, from the pictures on the BD site it looks the other way around, like the Ti Heat has the 17 degree stem. Where do they list the stem angles at in their specs?


It may not be listed in the specs, but here's what I see (and I own an SL, which has a 17 degree stem):

The head tube angle is 73*. A 0* stem would come off the steerer at a 17* angle with respect to the horizontal (angled up 17*).

(Fire) Combined with an angled-down 17* stem, subtract the stem angle from the 17* angle that a 0* stem would give us: 17*-17*=0* with respect to horizontal. The stem is level with respect to the ground.

(Heat) Combined with an angled-down 6* stem, 17*-6*=11* with respect to horizontal (angled up 11*).

Alternately, you can flip the stems up for 34* and 23* above the horizontal, respectively.


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## JDill (Feb 5, 2012)

Actually, it looks like you're exactly right. I didn't read close enough and was comparing the stems on the Le Champion Ti Fire and the Immortal Fire when I read you post, as those are the two I am waffling between. Sorry and thanks...


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## lardo (Aug 16, 2011)

Dresden said:


> I removed the top tube and down tube decals from my Le Champion Ti tonight. Decided to keep the decals on the seat tube. It was a pretty easy job. Soaked paper towels in acetone, wrapped them around the decals then wrapped saran wrap around that. I only left them on there for about 5 minutes, longer might have been even better but getting the decals off was still not a problem. I had bought a plastic scraper but didn't even need to use it. Just took some rubbing with paper towels and acetone. I did the top tube first then the down tube. Might have gone quicker if I'd have wrapped both tubes at the same time, but it was still only about a 30 minute job.
> 
> There was some ghosting of the decals that remained after the initial removal. It took about another hour of rubbing to get rid of that. Looks like its completely gone, but I haven't seen it out in the sunlight yet.
> 
> I can't tell any difference between the areas I removed the decals from and the other areas of the frame, so I'm happy with the way things turned out.



I've read that Ti oxidizes with the air to create a new very very thing layer. Give it some time and it may start to look flush with the "old" exposure.


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## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

Welp, I'm thinking tomorrow will be the day. Looking to pull the trigger on the Ti Fire. Any last words of precaution/advice?


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## JDill (Feb 5, 2012)

MattintheCrown said:


> Welp, I'm thinking tomorrow will be the day. Looking to pull the trigger on the Ti Fire. Any last words of precaution/advice?


I'll be buying early next week, but turns out it won't be the Immortal Fire or the Ti Fire after all.

I hadn't even considered a RED bike but after looking I will be going with the Le Champion CF Inferno. It seems like a good value with the Elite wheels and the RED group. I don't think RED is necessary, but it will be a nice plus.

The drawback is that it doesn't come with a compact crank, which I wanted. I hope to break somewhere near even with a buy and sell swapping it out.

I'm replacing my 20 year old steel Basso, which may become a single speed.

Exciting stuff, enjoy your new ride!


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## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

JDill said:


> I'll be buying early next week, but turns out it won't be the Immortal Fire or the Ti Fire after all.
> 
> I hadn't even considered a RED bike but after looking I will be going with the Le Champion CF Inferno. It seems like a good value with the Elite wheels and the RED group. I don't think RED is necessary, but it will be a nice plus.
> 
> ...


Yeah, you too. Make sure to start a thread. I plan on starting one and getting a lot of pictures of the Ti Fire up there for posterity.


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## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

BTW, what made you choose the Immortal over the LeChamp Ti? The Ti is only $100 with the red group.


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## JDill (Feb 5, 2012)

MattintheCrown said:


> BTW, what made you choose the Immortal over the LeChamp Ti? The Ti is only $100 with the red group.


Nope, not the Immortal. The Le Champion Inferno, for $2295. Kind of like being in the potato chip aisle; too many to choose from. $2300 is definitely my limit.


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## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

JDill said:


> Nope, not the Immortal. The Le Champion Inferno, for $2295. Kind of like being in the potato chip aisle; too many to choose from. $2300 is definitely my limit.


Oh, my bad. Derp.


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## newsman787 (Mar 11, 2011)

Looking forward to your review. Have had LeChampion Ti Heat more than a year and truly love it. Removed decals, had special decals made with my name. Thus my bike carries my name -- truly customized. Also upgraded wheels to Krysium Elites. For me, BD was right path!


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## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

Ordered this morning, and I just got e-mail notice from UPS. It says the label has been created, but so far the package hasn't arrived at the facility. Still, I'm excited. I expect to get the bike some time around mid-week next week.


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## paulfeng (Jun 10, 2011)

Congrats on pulling the trigger. I look forward to hearing your impressions; I hope you love it as much as I do mine.


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## Dresden (May 26, 2009)

Congrats. I would buy another Le Champ Ti if mine were stolen or destroyed in a crash. That's how much I like mine. 

Rest assured, the decals will come off *completely* with a bit of effort(even after being on there for almost 4 years) if you decide to do that. Actually, mine looked better in real life than in photos, but ultimately I just wanted more titanium showing.


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## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

Dresden said:


> Congrats. I would buy another Le Champ Ti if mine were stolen or destroyed in a crash. That's how much I like mine.


One thing that struck me was that, after a lot of searching on several forums, I couldn't find a single owner of one of these who wasn't very pleased with it. Anyone who researches products much knows that this is rare.



> Rest assured, the decals will come off *completely* with a bit of effort(even after being on there for almost 4 years) if you decide to do that. Actually, mine looked better in real life than in photos, but ultimately I just wanted more titanium showing.


Yeah, I'm hoping they look nice IRL. We'll see. I'll photograph the hell out of it so maybe others will have a better idea (one gripe I have with BD is that they have lots of bikes for which the detailed photos are eternally "coming soon"). Worst case, I like the bare look, and I'm glad to hear yours came off without much trouble. I see little need to worry about the warranty, if it's the case that BD really wouldn't honor it due to that. I didn't run across anyone who needed warranty work on one of these, either.


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## paulfeng (Jun 10, 2011)

MattintheCrown said:


> One thing that struck me was that, after a lot of searching on several forums, I couldn't find a single owner of one of these who wasn't very pleased with it. Anyone who researches products much knows that this is rare.


That's 'cuz we're all shilling for Bikes Direct!

(Since no one has accused me of shilling yet, I had to do it myself.)


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## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

Within 72 hours, I'll be in possession of my LeChamp Ti Fire:

UPS: Tracking Information


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## PhotoJoe (Mar 8, 2011)

Pictures and full ride report....or it didn't happen! 

Congrats. My day is coming soon!

And for those who have posted how much you love your Moto Ti, can you tell us what else you have saddle time on and how the ride compares? Have you owned steel, carbon and/or aluminum and what are your thoughts as to how Ti compares? Thanks!


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## lardo (Aug 16, 2011)

I have the Apex-equipped Ti Le Champion. I've had an aluminum road bike and currently also own an 80s steel road bike. I don't see myself buying another aluminum road bike. The ride was too harsh.

The steel is very nice, looks good and comfortable, but it's a little too flexy because I hear my chain rub the derailleur when I pedal hard/sprint. However, to be fair, the rubbing probably occurs because my front derailleur on my steel bike is broken and not optimally adjusted, which probably makes my perceived flexiness exaggerated. I may buy a high-end steel bike.

I haven't tried carbon. 

With all that said, my Ti bike is very fast, stiff and comfortable. My only complaint/preference is that I wish all the tubes on the frame were uniform in roundness like the seat tube. The down tube is oval-ish ( but it's to create for a stiff frame). Regardless, I'm happy with the purchase.


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## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, it's in, and it's assembled. I've taken many, many pics, but I can't upload them until I get home (I had it sent to the office so I could be there to sign for it).

Initial impressions: god, this thing is light! I'm used to my old mountain bike converted to a hybrid, which weighs like 28 pounds. By contrast, this is featherlike. I took a pic of myself holding it by my first two fingers, with my arm straight out to my side, fully extended. I can hold that for some time, so without seeing a scale, I know it can't weigh very much. 

The red stickers are quite bright. I'm going to let it go awhile, and see if they grow on me. I flipped the stem so that it's pointing up; I'll see how that goes after I've had it on my trainer for a while. The size seems go so far, but I was only able to ride it around in the warehouse a tiny bit, so, we'll see. It was packaged very well, and thankfully UPS doesn't seem to have battered it around hardly any at all; no damage to the box, even.

I think I have the shifters dialed in pretty well, but then you can never be sure until you're actually on the bike. One thing is for sure: there'll be no cross-chaining with this drivetrain. Don't even try it, as there's no dialing it in to do so smoothly.

It really was very easy to assemble. Wheels were true. I'll upload pics later this evening.

Oh, one last thing: the frame is oddly tin-like. By that, I mean that it seems to be quite thin-walled, and makes a tinnish sound when you tap on it. This is irrelevant, except when you're freewheeling; the frame seems to amplify that sound somewhat, due to the nature of the frame. I find that kind of amusing.


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## PhotoJoe (Mar 8, 2011)

Congrats. Looking forward to pix and ride report. I'm green with envy.


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## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

Grr. I went home and attempted to upload like 30 images to imageshack, but for whatever reason, it froze my computer after uploading 1 (it did this twice). My plan was to set them to upload, leave, and then come back and make a thread with explanations of all the images, but I guess I'm going to have to sit there and hold the damn thing's hand. They _will_ be going up tonight, come hell or high water.


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## PhotoJoe (Mar 8, 2011)

Yah, sure you got a new MB Ti Fire. Uh-huh! Like I said, pix or it didn't happen! :biggrin5:


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## Dresden (May 26, 2009)

PhotoJoe said:


> And for those who have posted how much you love your Moto Ti, can you tell us what else you have saddle time on and how the ride compares? Have you owned steel, carbon and/or aluminum and what are your thoughts as to how Ti compares? Thanks!


Prior to getting my Moto Ti, I'd only owned steel bikes.

I have a late 80's Bridgestone with basic butted(mine is triple butted but I think that's more of a marketing thing than any real advantage over double butted) chromoly tubing. It's a really smooth riding(and a bit flexy laterally) bike that I've owned for more than 20 years. A while after I got my Moto Ti, I switched many of the components over to the Bridgestone and put Rival on my Moto Ti. I got spoiled with brifters and wanted to lose the downtube shifters that the Bridgetone had. I still enjoy riding that bike very much even now and like the classic look of its small tubing and quill stem.

I also have a late 90's steel Fuji road bike with higher quality over-sized heat treated chromoly tubing(True Temper OX RCX). It's not quite up there with Reynolds 853, but it's a clear step up from the tubing of my Bridgestone. It came with a quill type aluminum fork which I thought an odd choice for a steel bike, but I suppose that was that era's weight weenie choice. A few years ago I switched it to a threadless carbon fork which definitely improved the feel of the bike. It's a lighter bike than the Bridgestone and stiffer though it still has the nice feel of steel. This was my main road bike before I got my Moto Ti. I'm in the process of converting it into a pretty nice hybrid just to have something a little different to ride from time to time.

My Moto Ti feels more like the Fuji(with the carbon fork) and is a few pounds lighter. As part of the introductory group buy, I was a bit worried that a cheap titanium bike from a mail-order company might be noodly and was pleasantly surprised that it was not.

I've test ridden aluminum road bikes over the years and finished the rides with feelings ranging from revulsion to indifference. I had also test ridden carbon fiber around the time I was deciding on whether or not to get the Moto Ti. I could have been happy with a CF bike, but I had always wanted a titanium bike and figured I'd take a shot with the titanium Motobecane since I tend to keep my bikes so long.


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## swidd (Jul 17, 2011)

I have the Immortal Fire with SRAM Force and Ksyrium Elite wheels. The wheels are truly awesome; the SRAM Force works brilliantly; the frame is solid and rides stiff, stable, light, slightly aggressive, excellent climber. The handlebars offer very little micro vibration dampening, so I spent $10 on G-form pads and taped them around the grips. It offered significant reduction in hand fatigue during my last rides. 

All the bad-mouthing against a "last year's" BD carbon frame is ... to be expected in a forum with a sentiment against BD. The frame is perfectly fine; similar to any entry-level frame in the stores other than the newest and greatest exploratory designs. The black color on the Immortal Fire even looks amazing. The finish is superb. I've seen brand new Cannondale frames, and the BD has a better finish.

I'm 210, and have absolutely no flex in the frame or wheels.


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## JDill (Feb 5, 2012)

Just ordered my Motobecane Le Champion CF Inferno 
I'll post a separate photo report when she arrives!
Jeff


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## X-Nemesis (Aug 5, 2012)

Upping my post count, I'm leaning to a Ti moto as well


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## trindadi84 (Aug 9, 2012)

Just recently got a Ti from BD. Have about 120 miles on it and so far so good. I built it up myself and tuned it perfectly. Still dialing in the fit, will likely need a shorter stem as I've got quite long legs for my height. I think its a great buy for the money.


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