# Top 10 Brands In Road Bikes - Last Year



## wardinside (Nov 7, 2003)

About a month or so ago, someone posted question on top ten brands of road bikes.

Last year's figures have just been reported - with no surprises - except Raleigh being knocked out by Cervelo and Felt

companies are
AMERICAN BICYCLE (LITGHTSPEED/MERLIN/ETC)
BIANCHI
CANNONDALE
CERVELO
FELT
FUJI
GIANT
MOTOBECANE
SPECIALIZED
TREK (TREK/LEMOND/ETC)


people can guess about the volume order; but at this level - it does not matter much
is my guess


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

wardinside said:


> About a month or so ago, someone posted question on top ten brands of road bikes.
> 
> Last year's figures have just been reported - with no surprises - except Raleigh being knocked out by Cervelo and Felt
> 
> ...


Source of this info? No offense but whenever these type of posts come up, the source is never given. Your posts have always been very informative but where did this information come from?


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## wardinside (Nov 7, 2003)

*source*



Dave Hickey said:


> Source of this info? No offense but whenever these type of posts come up, the source is never given. Your posts have always been very informative but where did this information come from?



bicycle suppilers group
annual reporting meeting

as you may know, exact firgures can not be given out
but relative rankings are ok


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

He's just upset Look isn't listed


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## Dave_Stohler (Jan 22, 2004)

Or, if you went by total sales, it would be:

Huffy
Schwinn
Magna
(Wal-Mart) Mongoose
Free Spirit
.............
........

etc.


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## wardinside (Nov 7, 2003)

*ROAD BIKES only - and just in USA*



Dave_Stohler said:


> Or, if you went by total sales, it would be:
> 
> Huffy
> Schwinn
> ...


The post is just on road bike sales -- but you are correct, in that, if Road Bikes become real popular again - WalMart will start selling them, and they would outsell Trek and everyone else with no trouble (after all WalMart sells more bikes than every dealer in the USA added together)

I normally do not post opinions - but I do think it will be several years until the Road market gets large enough to attract much attention from WalMart, Target, and ToysRUs (the big 3 bike sellers in the USA)


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

wardinside said:


> bicycle suppilers group
> annual reporting meeting
> 
> as you may know, exact firgures can not be given out
> but relative rankings are ok



Thanks for the info and another question for you. With the flood of carbon products coming out of Asia, do you think we'll see big price drops on carbon stems,bars, wheels, etc....?


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

divve said:


> He's just upset Look isn't listed


   If LOOK made the list, I'd probably switch to TIME. As much as I love LOOK frames, I don't want to see the under every butt on road


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## wardinside (Nov 7, 2003)

*Carbon Fiber*



Dave Hickey said:


> Thanks for the info and another question for you. With the flood of carbon products coming out of Asia, do you think we'll see big price drops on carbon stems,bars, wheels, etc....?



YES - there will be price drops every year - even with the falling US Dollar
main area of reduction, will be frames with Carbon Rear Stays
(some have posted here or on bicycling - that carbon rear stays reduces the price of Aluminum frames - This is of course wrong -- I wish posters would post only what they know for sure when stating it as a fact --- ANYWAY frames with carbon rear seat stays now get a $60 FOB upcharge or so - that will drop to $30 very soon)

super light stems and bars in carbon and in Aluminum are dropping in price now
you will be able to get 100gr stems at $99 RETAIL! - so much less when discounted

also, road bikes that are very light - like 15lbs, will soon be way under $2000

it is a great time to be into bike technology - best ever and prices are great (my opinion)


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## nonutin (Jan 22, 2004)

*Is your list in order of magnitude of sales with...*

AMERICAN BICYCLE being #1 and Trek being 10th?



wardinside said:


> About a month or so ago, someone posted question on top ten brands of road bikes.
> 
> Last year's figures have just been reported - with no surprises - except Raleigh being knocked out by Cervelo and Felt
> 
> ...


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## Tower (Mar 17, 2003)

nonutin said:


> AMERICAN BICYCLE being #1 and Trek being 10th?


Yes..................alphabetically............look closer....


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

Yep, me too. They are already getting a bit more popular around here. Got to start saying "they s$ck" so that others won't buy more


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## collectorvelo (Oct 30, 2003)

*too bad about Raleigh*

it is too bad Raleigh has fallen so far; they used to be the best in production road bikes and then went thru all types of trouble. I have two old Raleighs from the 70s and early 80s - they are both real nice
now they seem to not only have really low image bikes; but also falling from number 1 in road to off the list of top ten
it is just a little sad


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## ferrantee (Nov 4, 2003)

*I wonder about Aluminum vs Steel - sales on road*

It is funny, most shop owners and seasoned riders seem to love steel road bikes - but shops are full of aluminum bikes
And on this list - only LeMond, Bianchi, Fuji, and Motobecane seem to have any high grade steel
Is it just the look? or what? to me it is so clear that steel rides better -- just my opinion of course


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## CFBlue (Jun 28, 1999)

*I'm not seasoned, or a bike shop owner but...*

for road racing, I can't imagine riding anything other than steel, ever. Especially while I'm footing the bill... for the track I might get an aerodynamic carbon or Al frame.

I think the reason that Al and carbon are so popular is that numbers are easy to sell. "Less than 1kg etc" The ride quality, durability, and stiffness of a nice steel frame is difficult to convey. It's unfortunate also that people buy bikes that just don't suit them, but that's what you get when you combine affluence and ignorance.

Anyway, back to a positive note, steel kicks ass!


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## BikinBrian (Feb 6, 2004)

*What kind of wheels are those?*

I have never seen those before,..


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## asterisk (Oct 21, 2003)

I'm just speculating but I believe it also has to do with the fact that producing mass quantities of alum frames has gotten progressively cheaper versus steel frames in the last few years. I know waaay back when I purchased my mountain bike, a Fisher, most of the line was steel and the catolog touted the wonders of steel. Now you look through and Trek or Trek owned catolog and you'll see all alum frames.

But I agree, chromo rules!



hayaku said:


> I think the reason that Al and carbon are so popular is that numbers are easy to sell. "Less than 1kg etc" The ride quality, durability, and stiffness of a nice steel frame is difficult to convey.


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## CycloPathic (Feb 3, 2004)

ferrantee said:


> It is funny, most shop owners and seasoned riders seem to love steel road bikes - but shops are full of aluminum bikes
> And on this list - only LeMond, Bianchi, Fuji, and Motobecane seem to have any high grade steel
> Is it just the look? or what? to me it is so clear that steel rides better -- just my opinion of course


if you check LeMond dropped alot mid-level steel frames, low end models are all Al now, and the same happen to other brands like Fuji, KHS, etc. I guess they were not selling that well and were more expensive. 520 Reynolds frames are extinct


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## dante (Feb 9, 2004)

CycloPathic said:


> if you check LeMond dropped alot mid-level steel frames, low end models are all Al now, and the same happen to other brands like Fuji, KHS, etc. I guess they were not selling that well and were more expensive. 520 Reynolds frames are extinct


GF bought a Jamis Ventura last year b/c it was steel (520), and rode better than the alu cannondale she tried. Now the Ventura is alu...  Glad she got hers when she did, the extra pound/pound and a half is well worth the ride...

dante


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Steel is real-ly going away in the general market*

With the rise of Carbon forks and carbon stays in the mid range and lower range road & hybrid bikes, the ride quality of steel is not as important to most buyers as is the weight, stiffness (certain lightweight steel frames), rust and other issues. With steel being squeezed out by Ti and CF on the higher end, and carbon forked, carbon stayed Al Bikes on the lower end- steel is becoming more of a speciality item on road bikes, limited to the "steel is real" devoted fans, small custom builders without the capacity to work in Ti, and retro classic lines (mmm Waterford!). 

Eventually it is hard to imagine many steel bikes will be built for the general market at all. Rather it will become more of a custom item. Nothing looks as nice as a properly done steel lugged frame. But when it's their wallet, most buyers do not seem to be buying or even looking for steel bikes on average. Even alot of traditionally steel bike builders now crank out more CF, Ti and AL/CF models to steel models. 

Coolhand


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## bikeshopguy (Oct 27, 2003)

*Some steel bikes still left*



Coolhand said:


> With the rise of Carbon forks and carbon stays in the mid range and lower range road & hybrid bikes, the ride quality of steel is not as important to most buyers as is the weight, stiffness (certain lightweight steel frames), rust and other issues. With steel being squeezed out by Ti and CF on the higher end, and carbon forked, carbon stayed Al Bikes on the lower end- steel is becoming more of a speciality item on road bikes, limited to the "steel is real" devoted fans, small custom builders without the capacity to work in Ti, and retro classic lines (mmm Waterford!).
> 
> Eventually it is hard to imagine many steel bikes will be built for the general market at all. Rather it will become more of a custom item. Nothing looks as nice as a properly done steel lugged frame. But when it's their wallet, most buyers do not seem to be buying or even looking for steel bikes on average. Even alot of traditionally steel bike builders now crank out more CF, Ti and AL/CF models to steel models.
> 
> Coolhand


A shop in our area has started selling Mercier steel bikes. They have 520 and 853 bikes - maybe there will b e a company or two left making production Reynolds steel bikes


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## Sao (Jul 31, 2003)

*steel bike question*

I have a rhetorical question re: steel. Won't there always be a boutique-styled manufacturer making steel bikes provided there is an audience for them? With all the talk of steel disappearing, does that mean that Waterford and Jericho and Rivendell and all the other custom steel manufacturers will no longer have any piping to buy and will be forced to either build carbon or aluminum or scandium or some funky hybrid in order to stay in business? 

Because I just don't see how steel bikes will ever really disappear, in my lifetime anyway. I can see the frames becoming rarer and thus, more expensive, but as for the disappearance of the steel-framed bike altogether -- so long as there is steel in cars, I think we'll have plenty of steel left over for bikes.


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## gantt (Nov 4, 2003)

*Thanks for posting this*

I was glad to read this. I have been looking at upgrading road bikes and have heard different 'stories' at different dealers. I have looked at four dealers and seen Trek, Motobecane, Biachi, and Felt. 
The reaon I was glad to see this post is that the Trek dealer had told me that the other three were all 'no-names' and that only Trek and Specialized are name brands worth buying. I think I can see now, he is full of it


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## margoC (Jan 22, 2004)

collectorvelo said:


> it is too bad Raleigh has fallen so far; they used to be the best in production road bikes and then went thru all types of trouble. I have two old Raleighs from the 70s and early 80s - they are both real nice
> now they seem to not only have really low image bikes; but also falling from number 1 in road to off the list of top ten
> it is just a little sad



I have one, a new raleigh heritage international, with a carbon fork, zona steel frame, and campycentaur. I really like mine. The dealership near me doens't only carry the low image bikes.


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## lyleseven (Nov 15, 2002)

*Spokes???*



divve said:


> He's just upset Look isn't listed


Are those spokes in your wheels or 2'x4's??? Seriously, what brand, size?


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

I have no idea what those spokes are. It's not my bike and hopefully never will be....if I ever required such a goofy stem setup, I'd give up on roads bikes and ride something more relaxing with perhaps even an 11T gear such as the below:


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## Live Steam (Feb 4, 2004)

*I am surprised by some of the results*

I would have thought Giant would be way up the list. And Cdale? I didn't think they produced many bikes last year with their bankruptcy and subsequent auction. They even shut down production for a while. Bianchi second and Cervelo fourth followed by Felt? I'd love to see those figures first hand.


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

That list is in alphabetical order not actual representation of number of sales.


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## ferrantee (Nov 4, 2003)

*cars?*



Sao said:


> I have a rhetorical question re: steel. Won't there always be a boutique-styled manufacturer making steel bikes provided there is an audience for them? With all the talk of steel disappearing, does that mean that Waterford and Jericho and Rivendell and all the other custom steel manufacturers will no longer have any piping to buy and will be forced to either build carbon or aluminum or scandium or some funky hybrid in order to stay in business?
> 
> Because I just don't see how steel bikes will ever really disappear, in my lifetime anyway. I can see the frames becoming rarer and thus, more expensive, but as for the disappearance of the steel-framed bike altogether -- so long as there is steel in cars, I think we'll have plenty of steel left over for bikes.



HOW are steel cars and Steel Bikes related? I really dont get it


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## AJS (Aug 7, 2003)

"Steel is best"?

Nope. I disagree. It's Ti that rides the best for me. And BTW - it's light, too!


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## ferrantee (Nov 4, 2003)

*Ti weight vs steel*



AJS said:


> "Steel is best"?
> 
> Nope. I disagree. It's Ti that rides the best for me. And BTW - it's light, too!



REYNOLDS 853 bikes can be very light - even compared to Ti
if you have a budget, as most do
and you get an 853 bike and put the money saved into lighter wheels
you can beat the same budget level Ti bike in weight and in ride


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## collectorvelo (Oct 30, 2003)

*Very Nice when Lugged*



hayaku said:


> for road racing, I can't imagine riding anything other than steel, ever. Especially while I'm footing the bill... for the track I might get an aerodynamic carbon or Al frame.
> 
> I think the reason that Al and carbon are so popular is that numbers are easy to sell. "Less than 1kg etc" The ride quality, durability, and stiffness of a nice steel frame is difficult to convey. It's unfortunate also that people buy bikes that just don't suit them, but that's what you get when you combine affluence and ignorance.
> 
> Anyway, back to a positive note, steel kicks ass!


And steel frames are great looking when lugged - when lugs started disappearing, the art kind of went out of frames - sure a few frames look cool today and some paint is nice - but how can they compare in level Art to the lugged frames of 25 years ago? To bad customers are not willing to pay for such careful and artful building today.


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## ferrantee (Nov 4, 2003)

*Are there going to be fewer or more bikes with 853?*



wardinside said:


> About a month or so ago, someone posted question on top ten brands of road bikes.
> 
> Last year's figures have just been reported - with no surprises - except Raleigh being knocked out by Cervelo and Felt
> 
> ...


It seems to me that reynolds 853 is the best all around tubing - but few manufacturers use it anymore. I wonder why and will that change in the near future?


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## tube_ee (Aug 25, 2003)

wardinside said:


> YES - there will be price drops every year - even with the falling US Dollar
> main area of reduction, will be frames with Carbon Rear Stays
> (some have posted here or on bicycling - that carbon rear stays reduces the price of Aluminum frames - This is of course wrong -- I wish posters would post only what they know for sure when stating it as a fact --- ANYWAY frames with carbon rear seat stays now get a $60 FOB upcharge or so - that will drop to $30 very soon)


This has been gone over many times, by many who have been intimately involved in the manufacturing of bicycle frames. Here's the skinny (tires):

Buying carbon fiber rear triangles and gluing them into aluminum frames can often REDUCE the cost to MANUFACTURE the frames. These cheaper-to-build frames are then sold to the importers / big bicycle companies at a HIGHER price, because they're trendy, and the importers / companies are willing to pay the premium because they know that they will be able to pass that cost, plus extra profit, on to the bike shops who are their customers. The bike shops, in turn, are willing to pay the premium, because they know that they will be able to pass on that cost, plus extra profit, on to the riders who are their customers. The fact that Kinesis / Merida / whoever charges more for a carbon stay bike says NOTHING AT ALL about what it costs them to produce that frame.

If I can build something cheaper, and sell it for a higher price, I make more money. It's really that simple, and it is a well-documented fact that, for the manufacturer, adding pre-built carbon stays to an aluminum bike often makes that bike CHEAPER to produce. If you can't accept that, I can't really help you, but that doesn't change the facts. The "fresh-off-the-boat" price for a frame and the cost to produce that frame have very little to do with each other.

It also often makes it heavier, but that's another thread.

--Shannon


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

...................nm


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## wardinside (Nov 7, 2003)

tube_ee said:


> This has been gone over many times, by many who have been intimately involved in the manufacturing of bicycle frames. Here's the skinny (tires):
> 
> Buying carbon fiber rear triangles and gluing them into aluminum frames can often REDUCE the cost to MANUFACTURE the frames. These cheaper-to-build frames are then sold to the importers / big bicycle companies at a HIGHER price, because they're trendy, and the importers / companies are willing to pay the premium because they know that they will be able to pass that cost, plus extra profit, on to the bike shops who are their customers. The bike shops, in turn, are willing to pay the premium, because they know that they will be able to pass on that cost, plus extra profit, on to the riders who are their customers. The fact that Kinesis / Merida / whoever charges more for a carbon stay bike says NOTHING AT ALL about what it costs them to produce that frame.
> 
> ...


This set of statements is so false and silly, it is hard to know where to start - but
if anyone goes to Taiwan - to the Show - to the frame Factories
OR if anyone takes Eco 1001
OR reads Adam Smith
they will know the truth - Today it costs much more to make frames with Carbon Stays
if anyone thinks that Taiwan Frame factories do not compete to get customers, then they have have shopped to spec bikes in Taiwan
each frame factory currently can make more than they can sell and they compete like crazy for business
so IF they could make carbon rr stay frames for less - they would sell them for less to steal business from other factories - who would then follow suit
OR MAYBE YOU DO NOT BELIVE IN THE FREE MARKET !!

anyway, in todays environment it will not matter - As no one can get enough Shimano to build bikes anyway! this is what is going to drive up prices


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*Steel bikes live!*



ferrantee said:


> REYNOLDS 853 bikes can be very light


Fuji Roubaix Pro is 853. Its got a carbon fork, 105 drive train, including crank, and 105 brakes, all for slightly over 1000. Surprisingly, it weighs about the same as comparatively priced aluminum/CF rigs. I sold one to a happy camper yesterday.


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## AJS (Aug 7, 2003)

> Surprisingly, it weighs about the same as comparatively priced aluminum/CF rigs. I sold one to a happy camper yesterday.


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## shokhead (Dec 17, 2002)

Fredrico said:


> Fuji Roubaix Pro is 853. Its got a carbon fork, 105 drive train, including crank, and 105 brakes, all for slightly over 1000. Surprisingly, it weighs about the same as comparatively priced aluminum/CF rigs. I sold one to a happy camper yesterday.


I have the 03 Marseille,stock was 18.8 pounds. Not bad for steel.


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## happycx (Jul 6, 2003)

*A Steel Steed....*

What an interesting list that is shown above!

I am one of those nutjobs who likes to buy, work on a bike a little while, then sell and get another one. Also, being just out of a Masters program, I have had the need to sell some nice stuff.

Anyway, I have owned a number of bikes from that list and have liked all of them. The list includes:

Bianchi Campione (my current ride- RepartoCorse steel frame/Campy)
Litespeed Hyperion (very light-Ultegra; beat up my backside really good!)
Cannondale R1000 (see Litespeed above-but softer ride)
Giant TCR 2 (wierd road vibration, but fast!) 
Trek 5200 (good feel; nice ride; but very common)
and a Specialized Allez Comp (dead feel to the frame; nothing special)

Of all the bikes, the Campione (which I bought for a measly $600.00) is BY FAR the most enjoyable bike I have owned. Its plush and has quite a spring to it. After owning CC after CC (cookie-cutter), I have to admit that I am reaching that point where I want soul first and foremost. Its not the trickest, lightest, fanciest bike I have owned, but I like riding more on it than any other bike.

Incidentally, I used to be anti-steel for numerous reasons. I thought that technology warranted Alum/carbon/Ti/etc. I am so glad that I opened up to steel. A great deal turned out to change my riding habits forever.

Oh,m and I love Celeste......don't hold it against me!

Ride on!


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## rclements16 (May 3, 2004)

hayaku said:


> for road racing, I can't imagine riding anything other than steel, ever. Especially while I'm footing the bill... for the track I might get an aerodynamic carbon or Al frame.
> 
> I think the reason that Al and carbon are so popular is that numbers are easy to sell. "Less than 1kg etc" The ride quality, durability, and stiffness of a nice steel frame is difficult to convey. It's unfortunate also that people buy bikes that just don't suit them, but that's what you get when you combine affluence and ignorance.
> 
> Anyway, back to a positive note, steel kicks ass!


FYI: Tommasini makes some beautiful light weight steel frames that are strong and stiff. Interesting to check them out .... http://www.tommasiniusa.com/


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## fasteddie (Jun 20, 2003)

those are some bizzare angles with that stem and then the positioning/rotation of the bars and hoods. I'm getting carpal tunnel just looking at it....


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## goldsbar (Apr 24, 2002)

"I think the reason that Al and carbon are so popular is that numbers are easy to sell. "Less than 1kg etc" The ride quality, durability, and stiffness of a nice steel frame is difficult to convey."

The ride quality advantages of steel have been steadily and rapidly declining. Today's Al bike is far different than the bikes from 10 years ago. I used to think all Al was super harsh after my experience with an old C'dale. Not so anymore. I'd put the ride quality of my all alluminum '04 Specialized Allez Pro(?) up against anything. I tested it against a couple of Ti bikes (Merlin, Litespeed) in a similar price range and found the ride quality suprisingly superior. Unfortunately, the shop didn't have any steel bikes for me to test. But, the one thing I thought was that this bike reminded me of a second hand (high end in the ~80's) steel bike I had around 10 years ago. The Trek oclv I had in between was a bit clunky but I bet they've improved over time.


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## Ricky2 (Apr 7, 2004)

The market for bikes (anything really) is dictated primarily by the consumer. Your average Joe walking into a bike shop doesn't care about doing long 5 hour rides, so ride quality isn't that important. For most people, it comes down to price, weight, components.


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## t0adman (Jun 16, 2003)

I bought a barely used 2002 Lemond Zurich with Reynolds 853 last year after test riding a Saeco team C'dale, a very high end Serotta (uncle's bike), and an early 80's Mercian with Columbus tubing. Based on my size, the type and frequency of the riding I do, and how I like my bike to feel, the steel 853 was a no-brainer. I love it, and don't mind trading a little in the weight department. Now I just need to upgrade a few components and shave a few more lbs. That's another thread.


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