# Chinese carbon frame Ebay and direct thread 4.0



## WheresWaldo

With all the traffic in thread 3.0 and it's current size. It is time to start version 4.0.

I also believe that it is time that we start posting ride reports aince many of us have had a little bit of time to ride our Chinarello, Chiouta, Chineric frames for a while.

If we can include build details as well I think it would surely help any who are on the fence about these direct from China or eBay offered frame sets.

To make it easier to find information on the Carbon Frame threads here are direct links to all the Chinese/eBay threads:

Version 1: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=198213
Version 2: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=217331
Version 3: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=225409

If this is your first visit go to the upper right corner where it says Display Modes and select Linear Mode, it will be worth it.


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## WheresWaldo

*FM015 56cm build and ride report*

To start it off, I want to say that while I did have a much longer wait buying from Archtek than those buying from DengFu, HongFu and GreatKeen I did get a good quality frame, well packed and not missing any items.

The bike build was pretty straight forward except for the fact that I ordered mine unpainted and had to finish it before building. It is a basic SRAM Red bike with all but the crank set having moved from a PedalForce RS. Picked up a new BB30 Red crank at the local swap meet.

Building this frame seemed as easy as any other of the myriad frames I have put together. The only issue I had was that the fork steerer tube was about .005 mm oversize and it was a very tight fit to get the bearings on. A bit of sandpaper and it was just snug instead.

So far the ride has been what I would call very stable. It is not a twitchy steering bike and seems to track very straight. Compared to my PF it seems to be more solid. The bumps on the road are not as pronounced. I am going to attribute this to the very thin seat stays. The tapered front end does not give when diving into corners. Although it is much heavier than my Alpha Q fork, I don't notice the extra weight as much as I thought I would. It handles about the same as far as front end stiffness. This head tube fork combination is way stiffer than the Easton EC90 SLX fork I used a few years ago. There is absolutely no noticeable flex in the bottom bracket area, but honestly if I were to do this again, I would go with a standard BSA BB instead of BB30.

On the PF I never got the SRAM Red to perform as well as my Dura-Ace equipped RS (I own two RS one Red, one DA, otherwise identical), but moving the parts to this frame seems like everything is set up perfectly and I can tell no difference in the speed of shifts between the two bikes.

I am now considering (once re-employed) getting one of the Chinarello clones from GreatKeen after seeing the ones ordered here.

I hope this information proves useful to anyone considering these Chinese alternatives to name brand or off brand frames.


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## ms6073

Anyone know how to obtain frames produced by Axman like the RS 15?


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## vladvm

I don't know how to place....


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## jobubr

That axman bike would be illegal for the Pro's (there is a rule about need a front triangle) but that frame just looks wicked!!! Would love to see some pics of it built up. WOW!!


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## cokex

same page as above..


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## ms6073

What caught my eye was that the images of several of Axman's road frames appear to have the shift cables running in nice tidy internal cable through the downtube.


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## Urb

Back in the 3.0 thread there was some discussion and interest about the chinarello frames from greatkeenbike. Some of the recently posted stuff looks great but I see one glaring difference between the copy and the original. The cables are not routed internally on the top tube. Perhaps not a hindernace to some but a deal breaker to me. Doesn't help they had issues with group buys in other forums.

So tempting and the recent posted examples look excellent. I hope owners of this frame who bought from greatkeenbike add more input and reviews.


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## mrbubbles

Urb said:


> Back in the 3.0 thread there was some discussion and interest about the chinarello frames from greatkeenbike. Some of the recently posted stuff looks great but I see one glaring difference between the copy and the original. The cables are not routed internally on the top tube. Perhaps not a hindernace to some but a deal breaker to me.


I'm actually glad that the cables aren't internal. Those were gimmicky back then and still is today.


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## Local Hero

I'm looking for a crit bike.

Which chinaframe is best?


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## Local Hero

WW- thanks for the review. 



WheresWaldo said:


> T if I were to do this again, I would go with a standard BSA BB instead of BB30.


Why?

I'm thinking about getting a new bike. I'm going to use everything...except my red crank. I'd like to switch to compact and BB30. Your comment is the first negative thing I've heard about BB30...


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## alexb618

ive put a few hundred km on the fm015 i built up, i wouldnt say it is the best handling bike to be honest, it tends to not feel very ... i cant think of a word. feels like it wanders a bit both when climbing and descending, i don't find it particularly confidence inspiring compared to my other bike (wilier izoard). it is still a decent ride though and most of my racing is on dead flat roads, which is where this bike feels at home, so ill continue to use it.


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## Guymk

thanks for the ride reports WW. Your fm015 is definitely one of the sharper looking ones out there. Why would you not go with bb30 next time around? Any specific reasons?

This thread needs to be a sticky.


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## ColoRoadie

I've put hundreds of miles on my dengfu FM027 with zero complaints on the handling. It does everything I ask of it better than my Litespeed Atlas. Cycling has always been a necessary training tool for me, never what I would call a passion. This year, that has changed. Part of that change has been the added comfort of the new china frame...it certainly is the reason I am now commuting on a bicycle. That's 104 miles per week of commute....thank you Chinarello.


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## WheresWaldo

To answer why I wouldn't do BB30 again. Availability of cranks is the first reason. Most all of the best cranks available are readily so in BSA and less so in BB30. Number two is availability of Chinese frames, seems like any BB30 frames take much more time to deliver, so if you are wanting something without a two month wait then BSA is your choice.

I am still partial to Dura-Ace even though I have Red BB30 on my fm015. If I am able to build up a Chinarello then I might try a Campagnolo group of some kind, either way it's easier to do that with BSA rather than BB30. I do know about the adapters, and I have a set of the ones from Wheels Manufacturing. I also know about the press in adapter, but don't see where the real benefit to those are since I usually own a frame until it can't be ridden anymore or until there simply is no value left in them. Of course this happens even faster with a Chinese frame since there is no resale value there to begin with.

So I want to stick with what I know works and I know will be around long after I can no longer ride a bike.


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## JGF62

I would like for anyone to chime in with a ride review on the FM028. Seems to be alot of people with the FM015 or the Chinerello but neither of these will fit me, too small or big. The 56cm FM028 looks the goods for me, but no reports so far?


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## aplitt86

JGF62 said:


> I would like for anyone to chime in with a ride review on the FM028. Seems to be alot of people with the FM015 or the Chinerello but neither of these will fit me, too small or big. The 56cm FM028 looks the goods for me, but no reports so far?


I wish I could give you a ride report, but I don't have the money at the moment for parts. I have a lonely FM028 sitting in basement waiting to be loved...


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## MX304

For those who have built up an FM001 did you need short or long reach brakes?


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## config

mrbubbles said:


> I'm actually glad that the cables aren't internal. Those were gimmicky back then and still is today.


I'm the same way. Internal cable routing only looks cool but wait until you have to change the cables - you'll be glad to have external ones. It makes it so much easier to have them external.


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## ColoRoadie

config said:


> I'm the same way. Internal cable routing only looks cool but wait until you have to change the cables - you'll be glad to have external ones. It makes it so much easier to have them external.


I'm not following you on this one. What could be easier than sliding a cable through an internally routed cable guide? You push at one end, the cable comes out the other.


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## mrbubbles

ColoRoadie said:


> I'm not following you on this one. What could be easier than sliding a cable through an internally routed cable guide? You push at one end, the cable comes out the other.


Sometimes the cable doesn't come out properly on the other side. When you wear out the cable sleeve inside the frame, it becomes a bigger pita, but usually for these disposable frames (even $4000 frames), they're betting that people moved on before the sleeves wear out. 

I had older steel frames with internal rear brake cables and those are just pita and they are not an improvement over external cable mounts. And I can't possibly see how these new internal cables are any different (unless somebody wants to convince me otherwise). These ideas get recycled over and over just to get people buying new stuff, the oval chain rings like biopace are coming back too.


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## Local Hero

BMC is staying away from internal on a number of models, claiming a weight savings of 60grams.


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## athletic91

Just ordered a chinese bb30 frame, is there a way to fit the bb30 bearings without a bb30 specific tool?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Av6FPnbajQ&feature=related


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## clarencel

Has anyone found Chiverlo yet?


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## WheresWaldo

athletic91 said:


> Just ordered a chinese bb30 frame, is there a way to fit the bb30 bearings without a bb30 specific tool?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Av6FPnbajQ&feature=related


Build yourself something like this with parts from Lowes or Home Depot.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mababo/2844907310/


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## hoppa79

Does anyone have a link to pics of a full build up using the FM004 Dengfu frame?
http://dengfubikes.com/product.asp?id=11&classid=21

I'm looking for a budget traditional geometry carbon frame with a non sloping horizontal top tube, but having a hard time locating one so far. FM004 seems to be the closest so far but I'd like to see more pics before pulling the trigger.


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## hoppa79

Actually, now it looks like FM006 might even be a better frame but I can't find any pics of a full build up of it either.
http://dengfubikes.com/product.asp?id=10&classid=21

Does anyone have any pics of a bike w/ this frame?


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## embee64

Has somebody had a recent contact, say the last 5-6 days, to flyxi?
I have contacted them, but no answer.


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## paterberg

Anybody bought or yet built up a Chinese cyclo-cross frame? Looking at the Deng Fu FM058.


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## independentmind

paterberg said:


> Anybody bought or yet built up a Chinese cyclo-cross frame? Looking at the Deng Fu FM058.



I am yet to see any of those on any threads, sorry.


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## Guymk

Is this the correct website for Dengfu? 

http://dengfubikes.com/

There seems to be multiple websites for dengfu and I want to be sure if this is the correct one.


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## Gimpy Doolittle

WheresWaldo said:


> Build yourself something like this with parts from Lowes or Home Depot.
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/mababo/2844907310/


Mine, and works quite well (using only one pair of bushings at a time depending on the headset diameter.)

<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/mababo/2844907310/" title="Homemade Headset Press by Mauricio Babilonia, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3263/2844907310_27c1cbb91c_m.jpg" width="240" height="180" alt="Homemade Headset Press" /></a>

The bronze bushings are not usually a big box item. I got mine from McMaster-Carr. I add or remove the electrical tape to arrive at the exact inside diameter of the headset cup in question. 

Note that using it for a 1-1/8" cup with 3/4" threaded rod requires setting a straight bushing inside one with a shoulder:

<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/mababo/2844907230/" title="Headset Press Sleeve Bearing by Mauricio Babilonia, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3068/2844907230_340ee1e0ac_m.jpg" width="240" height="180" alt="Headset Press Sleeve Bearing" /></a>

Be sure to back the nut with a flat washer as seen in the first photo or you'll push the shoulder off the bronze bushing like this:

<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/mababo/2844907086/" title="Broken Bearing Flange by Mauricio Babilonia, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3094/2844907086_7a3808d7f7_m.jpg" width="240" height="180" alt="Broken Bearing Flange" /></a>


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## carelgrundlingh

@Guymk: It looks like it's the same guys, i.e address and Tony, but rather use this one:

http://www.greatkeen.com.cn/


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## Guymk

WheresWaldo, I will be purchasing an fm015 frame for myself after Christmas and I really like your paint job, would you be ok with me taking some ideas from it? This is sort of what i had in mind:


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## ericm979

Make sure your tool pushes on the outer race of the bearing and not the inner race. The headset tool in above has it wrong.

If you push on the inner race you'll 'brinnell' the bearings, which means that the balls dent the race. That's what causes 'indexed' steering when the headset bearing is bad. It'll kill BB bearings pretty quick too.


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## WheresWaldo

Guymk said:


> WheresWaldo, I will be purchasing an fm015 frame for myself after Christmas and I really like your paint job, would you be ok with me taking some ideas from it? This is sort of what i had in mind:


Of course go right ahead. This winter I will be repainting one of my PedalForce frames and I have a better scheme for it. more to follow...


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## Vee

To move a question over from the closed thread...

I have been searching hardcore to try to find the stand over height on the FM015 in 58cm. If anyone has a built up FM015 in 58cm, can you please measure the stand over height and post this information.

Thanks!


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## Guymk

What happened to the Chinese Carbon frame eBay and Direct thread v1.0 and 2.0? I would hope that the mods didn't just delete a huge wealth of information on these frames...


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## tthome

Guymk said:


> What happened to the Chinese Carbon frame eBay and Direct thread v1.0 and 2.0? I would hope that the mods didn't just delete a huge wealth of information on these frames...


 I was thinking the same thing. There is a ton of information in those v1.0 and v2.0 for current models being written about now in v3.0 and v4.0. Plus plenty of pictures on how to correct some issues.


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## WheresWaldo

tthome said:


> I was thinking the same thing. There is a ton of information in those v1.0 and v2.0 for current models being written about now in v3.0 and v4.0. Plus plenty of pictures on how to correct some issues.


To make all versions of the Chinese/eBay carbon frame threads easier to find, I have included direct links to the previous three threads in the opening post.


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## shnrvll

Hi everyone

A few months back I had 6 FM015 frames painted up with a custom logo by Hongfu. The plan was to keep one for a training bike and keep my Giant TCR to race on. Trouble was, I couldn't decide which colour I preferred (black/green/white vs white/red/grey) so I kept one of each.

Last year I bought an FM004 from Hongfu to see what sort of quality they were producing and was pleasantly surprised. A lot of the frame looked like my Giant, particularly the rear triangle. 

I'm really happy with the upgrade to the FM015. Unlike alexb I don't get any sense that the handling is vague and there are plenty of steep descents in my neck of the woods (Tasmania). I'm racing each weekend on one of the bikes, training on the other. The only complaint I have is that the mounts for the barrel adjusters are too close to the head tube making the cable bend a little too much. At a little over $600 a piece fully painted the value is fantastic. Hongfu arranged the paint job for me and the quality is very good.

I've attached a couple of pics....


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## alexb618

ive been on a borrowed wheelset since ive built my fm015 and they are horrible wheels so that could explain a lot. one thing i can say about the bike is the steering is very very sharp, not quite like my track bike, more like a a cannondale i was riding for a while (caad9 maybe?) which felt like a flat out crit racing bike

paint jobs above came out really well, the black and green one is sick


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## shnrvll

Thanks Alex - I'm wondering in hindsight if I should have put a thin white border around the green logo like I did with the logo on the white frame.

One thing I have done since buying the FM015's is to ride a slightly smaller frame (I'm on the 53cm). When I got my original FM004 (54cm) it felt too small but after riding it a few weeks I really started to like it - less flex in a sprint and better handling downhill.


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## Jetmugg

paterberg said:


> Anybody bought or yet built up a Chinese cyclo-cross frame? Looking at the Deng Fu FM058.



I will be taking delivery of a Hongfu FM-022 'cross frame within the next 2 weeks or so. I've been working through Jenny @ Hongfu - very easy to deal with. I would have the frame already, except for the custom paint.

SteveM.


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## WheresWaldo

shnrvll said:


> snipped ...
> I'm really happy with the upgrade to the FM015. Unlike alexb I don't get any sense that the handling is vague and there are plenty of steep descents in my neck of the woods (Tasmania). I'm racing each weekend on one of the bikes, training on the other. *The only complaint I have is that the mounts for the barrel adjusters are too close to the head tube making the cable bend a little too much.*
> ....snipped


I too agree with this assessment. I don't understand why the cable stops are so far forward and so far in. If the FM015 manufacturers are listening move them back about 5mm and out 2 or 3mm and you would not have issues with the cable entry. I worked around mine by using Alligator iLink cables which can bend a tighter radius without binding and it has had no effect on shift performance.

This past weekend I got a chance to do an unintentional 8 mile TT with my FM015. Story is our winter Saturday group ride is no drop and I decided to wait for the lone straggler. I asked if he was OK and we blew through the last rest stop and I pulled him all the way back to the start about 19.5-20.5 mph on a 40° breezy overcast day. We ended up getting caught just 1 mile from the start/finish. I told Tim he did a great job hanging on, not bad for a 69 year old, he later told me it was about a mile per hour faster than he thought he could go. Anyway back to the FM015, just two words: Rock Steady!

More words: Way more solid than the previous Motobecane Immortal Spirit I had a few years ago and way more stable in the front end than my PedalForce when I had an Easton EC90 SLX front fork, slightly more stable than my PF with an AlphaQ GS-10. To be honest I was way to heavy a rider for the SLX and it was scary riding it on any kind of twisty descent.

BTW, the White/Green is a thing of beauty. Green is the new Red on bikes.


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## WheresWaldo

alexb618 said:


> ive been on a borrowed wheelset since ive built my fm015 and they are horrible wheels so that could explain a lot. one thing i can say about the bike is the steering is very very sharp, not quite like my track bike, more like a a cannondale i was riding for a while (caad9 maybe?) which felt like a flat out crit racing bike
> 
> paint jobs above came out really well, the black and green one is sick


Alex, wheels make an incredible difference in the handling. I believe more than most people realize. I have a few sets of wheels with similar profiles and each one behaves slightly different than the others. My winter wheels are Nimble Fly rims, White Industry hubs, Sapim CX-Rays in 24F/28R. They are light and smooth but do not accelerate as well as my 50mm wheels with Soul hubs and same spokes in 20F/24R. The Nimble's are a stiffer wheel and built better but there is a difference.


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## Gimpy Doolittle

ericm979 said:


> Make sure your tool pushes on the outer race of the bearing and not the inner race. The headset tool in above has it wrong.
> 
> If you push on the inner race you'll 'brinnell' the bearings, which means that the balls dent the race. That's what causes 'indexed' steering when the headset bearing is bad. It'll kill BB bearings pretty quick too.


That'll learn me for not digesting the whole thread before commenting. Eric has it quite correct...my tool is for setting fixed headset cups, *not*, and *not ever*, for setting fancy integrated bearings. You'll ruin those with a tool like the one above because, as he points out, it will deform the races.

You might be able to create a really specialized tool like the one in the Orbea YouTube video, but at some point you have to decide whether you want to spend your time making tools or riding. It was worth it to make mine because it works on a bunch of different but relatively standard headsets.


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## paterberg

Jetmugg said:


> I will be taking delivery of a Hongfu FM-022 'cross frame within the next 2 weeks or so. I've been working through Jenny @ Hongfu - very easy to deal with. I would have the frame already, except for the custom paint.
> 
> SteveM.


Thanks for that - looking forward to some pics and a report!


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## Jetmugg

Here's an in-process pic. There will be a white outline around the pink design, and the whole thing will be clear-coated before shipment.

This will be for my wife.

I also ordered the seatpost, ergo-style handlebars, bottle cages, stem, and headset.










Later, 

Steve.


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## Guymk

Nice looking frame. What seller did you go with?


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## Jetmugg

I bought through Hongfu (Jenny). Communication has been excellent, as has working out the details of the custom paint. When finished, the bike will be a medley of pink, purple, white, and carbon fiber.

I'm really looking forward to getting the bike into my hot little hands.

It's a gift for my wife who has said that she wants to get into 'cross racing next season. She currently has no idea that I'm building it for her (could turn out good, could turn out bad).

SM


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## jobubr

okay, I have been reading for weeks. love what I'm reading and seeing. really starting to want one. curious which would be better for a die hard group rider/mountian biker - FM015 or FM028. please keep the reviews coming, oh and I absolutely LOVE the paint schemes you guys have come up with. Please keep the reviews coming.


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## paterberg

Jetmugg said:


> I bought through Hongfu (Jenny). Communication has been excellent, as has working out the details of the custom paint. When finished, the bike will be a medley of pink, purple, white, and carbon fiber.
> 
> I'm really looking forward to getting the bike into my hot little hands.
> 
> It's a gift for my wife who has said that she wants to get into 'cross racing next season. She currently has no idea that I'm building it for her (could turn out good, could turn out bad).
> 
> SM


That does look REALLY good! Nice solid looking cross frame. Keep us posted with pics, weights etc. Thanks in the meantime.


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## Guymk

*Frame ordered!*

Well I emailed Jenny at Hongfu earlier today inquiring about a 55cm UD finish fm015. She emailed me back and said that i was very lucky because they had a BB30 frame set in my size and with a UD finish. I was planning on just going with bsa but since they had it in stock i went ahead and ordered it  . 
I was also planning on having Hongfu doing a custom paint job for me, but now i have decided to go with a stealth look/mainly black with a little white. 

As far as the build goes I am going to swap my rival group over from my current bike and most of the other components as well. The only new parts I will be purchasing now are new cables, (any recommendations for cables btw?), a fizik arione saddle in black/white, and a Sram Force BB30 crankset. Frame photos to follow and then build photos as well.


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## alexb618

what are these paint jobs costing people? i have a feeling they are like $50?!


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## Jetmugg

For my paint job (2 colors plus clear), it was $115 from Hongfu.


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## skygodmatt

*Where's Chinese frames thread version 2.0?*

I am trying to find version 2.0 Chinese frames thread. 

There is something in there I wanted to check out. 
Did someone move it?


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## alexb618

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=217331


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## asherstash1

just had call from lbs saying my bb is fitted faced and fitted, as soon as i get it back have the fun of full build with shiny new parts! and learning to setup sram as i go, which depending where you read is "a piece of piss" or "too complicated for professional mechanic" meh, cant be any more complicated than the missus...

and will people _at least _ bother to read all 3 pages of this thread rather than asking ova and ova where the others have gone?


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## paterberg

shnrvll said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> A few months back I had 6 FM015 frames painted up with a custom logo by Hongfu. The plan was to keep one for a training bike and keep my Giant TCR to race on. Trouble was, I couldn't decide which colour I preferred (black/green/white vs white/red/grey) so I kept one of each.
> 
> Last year I bought an FM004 from Hongfu to see what sort of quality they were producing and was pleasantly surprised. A lot of the frame looked like my Giant, particularly the rear triangle.
> 
> I'm really happy with the upgrade to the FM015. Unlike alexb I don't get any sense that the handling is vague and there are plenty of steep descents in my neck of the woods (Tasmania). I'm racing each weekend on one of the bikes, training on the other. The only complaint I have is that the mounts for the barrel adjusters are too close to the head tube making the cable bend a little too much. At a little over $600 a piece fully painted the value is fantastic. Hongfu arranged the paint job for me and the quality is very good.
> 
> I've attached a couple of pics....


Sweet looking bikes and lovely paintwork. Can you tell me, did Hongfu also provide the decals to your specifications? I've seen a number of painted Chinese frames but not too many with both paint and decals. Looks good. Thanks.


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## vladvm

My frame should arrive any day now...I'm very excited!

2010-12-06 20:33:00 SHENZHEN Posting 
2010-12-06 21:44:00 SHENZHEN Despatch from Sorting Center 
2010-12-06 21:57:18 SHENZHEN Arrival at Sorting Center 
2010-12-06 22:37:21 SHENZHEN Despatch from Sorting Center 
2010-12-11 22:28:00 CANADA VANCOUVER Arrival at Sorting Center 
2010-12-11 22:28:00 CANADA VANCOUVER Handed over to Customs 
2010-12-13 08:16:00 CANADA VANCOUVER Released from Customs 
2010-12-14 04:18:00 CANADA MISSISSAUGA Item processed at postal facility


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## thesober

Noticed you are from Canada, let me know if you get hit on any duties or just HST, thanks!




vladvm said:


> My frame should arrive any day now...I'm very excited!
> 
> 2010-12-06 20:33:00 SHENZHEN Posting
> 2010-12-06 21:44:00 SHENZHEN Despatch from Sorting Center
> 2010-12-06 21:57:18 SHENZHEN Arrival at Sorting Center
> 2010-12-06 22:37:21 SHENZHEN Despatch from Sorting Center
> 2010-12-11 22:28:00 CANADA VANCOUVER Arrival at Sorting Center
> 2010-12-11 22:28:00 CANADA VANCOUVER Handed over to Customs
> 2010-12-13 08:16:00 CANADA VANCOUVER Released from Customs
> 2010-12-14 04:18:00 CANADA MISSISSAUGA Item processed at postal facility


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## yebamoth

*Axman r20 frame*

I did a little research and the Axman r20 mini-velo frame on page 1 of this thread appears to be the Flexpro F001 and F002 from Guangzhou Jianhong Sporting Goods Co. and appears to be available from cheaponsale.com. I contacted them but have received no reply as yet. Oh, and they seem to have a really interesting 700c bike called the F023 without even a whiff of a seatube.


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## independentmind

thesober said:


> Noticed you are from Canada, let me know if you get hit on any duties or just HST, thanks!


I'm in Toronto, I didn't get hit with any duties or taxes when I received my time trial frame from China. This was before HST came along though. Also, I think my exported reported the package as "gift" or "low value".

And more recently I haven't been getting hit, but I break up my purchases so packages come in under $100. So that may be helping.


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## Guymk

skronglite said:


> Perfect Fit.
> 
> http://www.skronglite.com/2010/12/new-product-tuesday-skrigidity-foam.html


I assume this is a joke?


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## MX304

Guymk said:


> I assume this is a joke?


Look at his other post. He's been trolling up a storm.


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## WheresWaldo

The post at the site are a very poor attempt at humor, I say he's a witch and we what do we do with witches?


If you want to know where threads 1, 2 and 3 are use the links included in the first post on page 1 of this thread.


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## jobubr

Guymk said:


> I assume this is a joke?


has to be, but if not, I have some rusty drill bits like the one they used I can sell you. Who use profanity in a marketing ad?


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## athletic91

To everyone:

DId your chinese frames come with the barrel adjusters for the down tube and the BB plastic cable guides?


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## alexb618

mine did not come with the barrel adjusters

lucky i had some spares


----------



## WheresWaldo

athletic91 said:


> To everyone:
> 
> DId your chinese frames come with the barrel adjusters for the down tube and the BB plastic cable guides?


mine didn't either but I bought some cheap from here:

http://www.ebikestop.com/jagwire_indexed_cable_adjuster_black_50mm_od_bag10-BR4045.php?cat=438

That gave me 5 pairs so I have some extras for other bikes. Alligator has some anodized ones that are a bit fancier and cost a lot more too, you can get those here:

http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/21...Cables/Alligator-Barrel-Adjuster-w_Spring.htm

Links to all threads available in the first post!


----------



## Guymk

^^ Wow thats good to know. I am ordering the rest of the build parts for my frame tonight so I will be sure to get some barrel adjusters.


----------



## chinarelloman

Received my pinarello copy frame a couple of weeks ago from cyclingyong.com. I got the red and yellow paint job. I paid $800 for frame, fork, and headset, which I now is more than other people are paying, but the paint job is as close to the real thing as it gets. I even took it to the lbs to get it built up and the mechanic never realized it was a fake. I would totally recommend cyclingyong if you want a perfect paint job, but their wheels, cages, and bars are overpriced.


----------



## Reghere

Some quick comments on my order - thru Hongfu.
1. Recieved the order as spec'ed - Frame paint job was a very high standard
2. Logo sizes not exactly what I wanted, but what I asked for. Hard to design in 3 D with the dimensionality aspect when you havent seen the frame
3. 55cm FM-015 ISP Bike built up with force and using 60 mm carbon wheels = 7.1 kg. Opportunity to drop weight more as using the heavish stem & handlebars from Hongfu.
4. Spacers and extra deraileur hanger that I asked for, did not come
5. A long time was spent getting the paint specs in a correct format for Hongfu. I did not get the feedback as others did. This was a source of frustration for me & would probably not go down this path again.
6. The final product looks great and have got lots of great feedback (not going to show pics as I intend on selling frames under my own brand).
7. frame packaged well & shipped with no issue.

A good mate who just spent nearly 4x as much on a Ridley frame is having big time buyers remorse. He reckons the quality is on par & in certain aspects exceeds the Ridley (uses allot of decals, ISP post better for adjustability of saddle). The Zipp 404's that are triple the price of my wheels just broke (no warranty refund so far). So much for expensive brands.

Cant stand the folks that are counterfitting the Pinnerello, duplicating the paint job & graphics. Show a little bit of creativity and change the name & paint style.


----------



## Local Hero

chinarelloman said:


> Received my pinarello copy frame a couple of weeks ago from cyclingyong.com. I got the red and yellow paint job. I paid $800 for frame, fork, and headset, which I now is more than other people are paying, but the paint job is as close to the real thing as it gets. I even took it to the lbs to get it built up and the mechanic never realized it was a fake. I would totally recommend cyclingyong if you want a perfect paint job, but their wheels, cages, and bars are overpriced.


any pictures?


----------



## skygodmatt

*Barrel Adjusters*

I would go for these alligator adjusters....
The red ones look sweet and they're spring loaded which is nice. 

http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/21...m&zmam=3075515&zmas=1&zmac=15&zmap=050 ALIBA0


----------



## AeolusRME

Am I the only one who cannot get the original 3 threads to load?


----------



## chinarelloman

Local Hero said:


> any pictures?


I'm out of town for the holidays right now, so I can't upload any pics. But you can go on the cyclingyong website, there are plenty and you can also ask for specific pictures.


----------



## skygodmatt

AeolusRME said:


> Am I the only one who cannot get the original 3 threads to load?


Yes you can. 

1) Go click on any other thread that loads okay. 
2) Next look for the "display mode" tab near the top of the text part of the forum ( about a third of the way down on the page)
3) After you click on display mode--select "Linear mode". It is defaulted on hybrid mode. 
4) Go back to the chinese 3.0 thread.

Now the pages will load on the long Carbon Frames thread.


----------



## PBrooks

sorry


----------



## PBrooks

*56 FM028 ISP frame*

Hello All, just received my 56 fm028 ISP and fork in 3k mat finish. It looks great and not too bad on the weight. Weights are as follow:
56 FM028 ISP frame - 1140g uncut
fork - 415 uncut
isp topper - 168 (not going to use)
Tune cappy - 78g or there abouts

Not going to assemble until mid Jan. just collecting parts right now. Like some CB1's and some pretty trigon peices. Will post pics later.
All the best
Phillip


----------



## cdhbrad

I've been thinking about an FM 028, non ISP, in 56cm too, mind telling me your height and the measurement for Ctr of BB to top of saddle on your current bike? I typically ride a bike with a 57cm TT, but I think the TT on the 58cm in the 028 combined with a taller HT than I like might make the 56 a better fit for me. Thanks for the input and look forward to seeing your finished bike.


----------



## drankk

I saw that cyclingyong has a lot of custom clothes. has anyone bought any of these? what is the quality like?


----------



## PBrooks

sure, height without shoes 179cm. My current saddle height is 73.5cm. When I opened the box and grabbed the fork, protected in white foam wrap it had 12k written on it, thought no they didn't but opened it to find perfect mat 3k wow what a relief. You going to have it painted or clear gloss or mat. I thought about ordering raw and then just wax it but then thought about UV so went with mat. Mina was easy to deal with at dengfu. My current frame has a HT of 150 but then I did some measuring and realized with the high headset that came on it plus a couple spacers it was well over 170 with a flatter headset and min spacers should be right on. Had to ditch the isp topper though, it weighs way to much. That won't be a problem for you if you get the non isp though.
Phillip


----------



## cdhbrad

Thanks for the reply. We're close in size. I'm about 183 cm and saddle height is 76cm. Most of my bikes have a HT of between 170-175 mm and I use FSA headsets with a 15mm cone spacer on top and no additional spacers under the bars, so I should be able to work with the HT on the 56cm frame size. I'll probably order the frame in a 3k weave with clearcoat, either matte or gloss, haven't decided which. Probably the matte as it would match most of the carbon wheels I have.


----------



## vladvm

I received my Chinarello. Shipping was in 10 days Shenzhen to Toronto, Canada. 
Packaging was good. They forgot to ship the seatpost clamp and the extra derailler hanger which were supposed to be included.

Initial inspection looked good, however there is one major flaw on the frame. The cable guide hole is on the wrong side where it goes through the bottom bracket. See picture. I already contacted the seller (maniac_bicycle) and just waiting for their reply.










Any suggestion on how to go about this problem?


----------



## CyKlo

Reghere said:


> Some quick comments on my order - thru Hongfu.
> 1. Recieved the order as spec'ed - Frame paint job was a very high standard
> 2. Logo sizes not exactly what I wanted, but what I asked for. Hard to design in 3 D with the dimensionality aspect when you havent seen the frame
> 3. 55cm FM-015 ISP Bike built up with force and using 60 mm carbon wheels = 7.1 kg. Opportunity to drop weight more as using the heavish stem & handlebars from Hongfu.
> 4. Spacers and extra deraileur hanger that I asked for, did not come
> 5. A long time was spent getting the paint specs in a correct format for Hongfu. I did not get the feedback as others did. This was a source of frustration for me & would probably not go down this path again.
> 6. The final product looks great and have got lots of great feedback (not going to show pics as I intend on selling frames under my own brand).
> 7. frame packaged well & shipped with no issue.
> 
> A good mate who just spent nearly 4x as much on a Ridley frame is having big time buyers remorse. He reckons the quality is on par & in certain aspects exceeds the Ridley (uses allot of decals, ISP post better for adjustability of saddle). The Zipp 404's that are triple the price of my wheels just broke (no warranty refund so far). So much for expensive brands.
> 
> Cant stand the folks that are counterfitting the Pinnerello, duplicating the paint job & graphics. Show a little bit of creativity and change the name & paint style.


Yo Reghere,
I may be the only one that thinks this, but I doubt it. For someone who won't show pictures of frame sets they are purchasing becuase she plans on selling them under her own "brand" - you have some balls to say you can't stand folks that are counterfeiting. If you do not know the definition of hypocrisy you may want to look it up so you don't come across as such an ass.
As a side note - you may want to use spell check. _Counterfitting Pinnerello_?


----------



## mrbubbles

vladvm said:


> Any suggestion on how to go about this problem?


Do nothing. The cable hole is on the right side. It's suppose to go through the bb. Do you have more pictures?


----------



## ms6073

mrbubbles said:


> Do nothing. The cable hole is on the right side. It's suppose to go through the bb. Do you have more pictures?


I think the OP was referring to the cable routing to the rear deraileur because from what I am seeing, that cable guide appears to be for a cable run under the non-drive side stay!


----------



## ColoRoadie

vladvm said:


> I received my Chinarello. Shipping was in 10 days Shenzhen to Toronto, Canada.
> Packaging was good. They forgot to ship the seatpost clamp and the extra derailler hanger which were supposed to be included.
> 
> Initial inspection looked good, however there is one major flaw on the frame. The cable guide hole is on the wrong side where it goes through the bottom bracket. See picture. I already contacted the seller (maniac_bicycle) and just waiting for their reply.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any suggestion on how to go about this problem?



Hmmm....I believe it can be done (maybe), but you are going to have to be a bit creative. Either buy a guide that is slotted (campy makes several) or slot the one you have (where the bolt goes through it). Slide the guide over as far as you can to get the long guide arm closer to the hole. Once you've done that and seen how far off you are, remove the guide...heat it (won't take much heat, don't get crazy) and bend the plastic so that the guide covers the hole when you reinstall it. Mark the length and cut the guide short so that it ends at the hole. Pull the inner sleeve out of an old piece of cable housing and insert it into the hole and route it through the guide as well. It will help the cable make the bends without binding. It looks like a pretty decent bend is needed from the photo...but it may work out ok in the end. You can pick up half of your distance by slotting the guide and as it sits it looks like your guide is twisted away from the hole...so straightening that up could give you another quarter inch....may not be as bad as it seems once you start playing with it. It looks like you have two small problems creating one larger one. The bolt hole looks like it's towards the non drive side, which moves the guide that way...and your derailleur internal routing hole is over towards the other side. Either would be easy to deal with...both combine to make it more intersting. I also wonder if you couldn't just drill and tap another hole for the guide bolt...if the rear derailler cable ran closer to the drive side of the BB would it matter? Be careful of the cables touching prior to the guide though. Here is a pic of what I mean by slotting the guide.












Or...you could be completely fooked.


----------



## PBrooks

Why can't there be a thread for pics, build reports? Just saying


----------



## skygodmatt

What Chinese Frame is this? : 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rossetti-SLX-57...50714868137?pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item3a5fc549a9


----------



## triathlete

what are the difference betwen these 2 frames?

and wich of them will be better? fm 015 or 028?


----------



## PBrooks

the answer is here:
http://cheapcarbonframes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/sizing.html#stack-and-reach


----------



## takmanjapan

I've seen it a few places - on Alibaba it was the Fm-010 but appears no one offers it anymore. Other manufacturers are selling this one, too:

Velonia (Estonia)
Flandria
Prestigio (Italy)
Rossetti
et al.



skygodmatt said:


> What Chinese Frame is this? :
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Rossetti-SLX-57...50714868137?pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item3a5fc549a9


----------



## ms6073

vladvm said:


> Any suggestion on how to go about this problem?












Edited - I would think the OP needs to indicate to us the drive side versus non-drive side of the bottom bracket shell. So IMHO if the right side of the bottom bracket shell (circled in red in the image above) is the non-drive side, then obviously that is a huge problem as the cable guide is routing the cable for the rear deraileur along the underside of the non-drvie side stay.


----------



## stevesbike

the only way that image makes sense is if you've circled the non-drive side! If the frame was purchased off of ebay I would immediately open a case to get protection and contact the seller to return the frame at their expense. I wouldn't trust a maker who doesn't even know how to distinguish between drive and non-drive sides and drills the wrong side. Run from that frame...


----------



## ColoRoadie

In the pic we can see the chain stays in the foreground with the down tube seen between them running away. Pretty clearly that means the red circle is the non drive side, which means the cable that runs in the long arm of the guide needs to get to that hole we can see in the BB. If it were mine, I think I would slide the guide over as far as possible, cut the long arm off, angle the guide towards the hole a bit to lessen the bend in the cable and then use a length of inner sleeve from an old cable housing from the front of the guide all the way until the cable exits the frame near the front derailleur. Easier than bending the guide.


----------



## ms6073

ColoRoadie said:


> In the pic we can see the chain stays in the foreground with the down tube seen between them running away.


Quite right, thus I have edited my post to correct for my complete lack of reading/image comprehension. :shocked:


----------



## vladvm

ms6073 said:


> Edited - I would think the OP needs to indicate to us the drive side versus non-drive side of the bottom bracket shell. So IMHO if the right side of the bottom bracket shell (circled in red in the image above) is the non-drive side, then obviously that is a huge problem as the cable guide is routing the cable for the rear deraileur along the underside of the non-drvie side stay.


Yes the circle is non-drive side. I am taking all your suggestions. 

1. I complained to the seller maniac_bicycle and assured me that that is normal (they asked me to re-ship the frame if I wasn't happy)
Here's the reply
_hello 
About Hole at the bottom bracket , it is normal, it is different with other frame,
in the second picture, it is internal cable , not crack, it is Hand-planted， not smooth is available about hangers and clamp, we send out together, plz check the package, if not find, we can resend to you abut the frame, if not like, plz send back for a full refund,
thx 

Best regards
Msn Online: [email protected]
Skype Online: bikepart
https://www.flyxii.com
https://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maniac_bicycle
https://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/302275​_

2. I re-drilled the cable guide to move it closer to the existing hole.

3. I cut and bent the longer guide to lead into the hole

This fixed all the problem. Thanks all!

Now look at the picture of the real Pinarello Prince cable guide. It is the same as my Chinarello. I just need to get the proper cable guide and it should work.


----------



## zender

No doubt that funky cable guide is what Pinarello does when they assemble their "made in Italy" bikes. It follows that they source those from somewhere other than the vendor that sold you the frame. Seems like either technique (your modded version or the true Pinarello guide) should work fine.


----------



## zender

I picked up one of these from carbonzone. Had to wait about two weeks because they didn't have 52 cm. I'm not sure of the FM code, but Pedalforce sells it as the *RS3*. I liked the geometry of this frame and it's going to be a winter beater bike with spare and used components.

In case anyone is ordering this frame from carbonzone:
- mine included the FSA BB30-to-English adapter, front derailleur clamp (so you can use any braze-on derailleur) and barrel adjusters without me asking for them 
- the headset is the usual generic Chinese stuff you get with these bikes but fits fine. It comes with a star-nut rather than an expansion bung that is preferred for carbon steerer tubes.
- Packing, finish (flat black in this case) and frame quality are on par with my prior orders from China (this will be my third frame).
- No issues with building it up. "Just put your components in a bag with the frame and shake," as they say


----------



## rruff

cdhbrad said:


> Thanks for the reply. We're close in size. I'm about 183 cm and saddle height is 76cm.


Hey... same as me!

I got the 54 because I like a lot of drop... 130mm -10 stem with no spacers. It works great. 

You are smart to look at the head tube length first... it tends to be tougher and/or ugly to deal with discrepancies there.


----------



## independentmind

vladvm said:


> Yes the circle is non-drive side. I am taking all your suggestions.
> 
> 1. I complained to the seller maniac_bicycle and assured me that that is normal (they asked me to re-ship the frame if I wasn't happy)
> 
> 2. I re-drilled the cable guide to move it closer to the existing hole.
> 
> 3. I cut and bent the longer guide to lead into the hole
> 
> This fixed all the problem. Thanks all!
> 
> Now look at the picture of the real Pinarello Prince cable guide. It is the same as my Chinarello. I just need to get the proper cable guide and it should work.


I must say, I've never seen that setup before, live and learn I guess.

Can you post a pic of your fix please, no doubt this question will come up again.

Thanks


----------



## JezBike

*My FM028*

Ok, I've read and lurked for long enough... 
I've reading everyone's comments which has been very helpful. Although there still aren't many comments on how the completed FM028 bikes ride.

I have just finished ordering a FM028 12k from Mina at Dengfu. This will have a dark red paint job. I'm going to transfer all the parts from my current bike to this one (more upgrades later!)

Once it's finished I'll put up the finished bike photo as well as ride impressions, which I'm curious about as the old frame was aluminium, and is the only thing that is changing

Here's the paint design:


----------



## rruff

FM028... It rides just fine. Seems smoother than my ZX3 on the rear and has a torsionally stiff front end.


----------



## vladvm

Here is the chinarello partial build for fitting only. Size 54cm, fits like a glove. Currently at 14.2lbs


----------



## vladvm

vladvm said:


> I received my Chinarello. Shipping was in 10 days Shenzhen to Toronto, Canada.
> Packaging was good. They forgot to ship the seatpost clamp and the extra derailler hanger which were supposed to be included.
> 
> Initial inspection looked good, however there is one major flaw on the frame. The cable guide hole is on the wrong side where it goes through the bottom bracket. See picture. I already contacted the seller (maniac_bicycle) and just waiting for their reply.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any suggestion on how to go about this problem?


Here is what I have done


----------



## ultraman6970

Dang!!!!!!!


----------



## WheresWaldo

vladvm said:


> Here is what I have done


a clever and workable solution


----------



## independentmind

vladvm said:


> Here is what I have done


Well done ! :thumbsup: 

Where do you ride in Toronto? Maybe I'll run into you some time, I would love to see the frame. I am yet to see any of these frames being ridden locally, I certainly didn't see any of these in races last season. I'm putting together a Chinese TT frame for the upcoming season.

BTW: If you are looking for small parts check out urbane cyclist (ucycle.com) and torontocycles.com it's hard finding what we need in Toronto.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

zender said:


> - the headset is the usual generic Chinese stuff you get with these bikes but fits fine. It comes with a star-nut rather than an expansion bung that is preferred for carbon steerer tubes.


My understanding is that you absolutely cannot (safely) use a star nut with a carbon steerer (tube). Am I wrong?


----------



## bevo21

JGF62 said:


> I would like for anyone to chime in with a ride review on the FM028. Seems to be alot of people with the FM015 or the Chinerello but neither of these will fit me, too small or big. The 56cm FM028 looks the goods for me, but no reports so far?


Sorry, mine is not ready yet. But there is some one in the Netherlands who has one and is very glad with it. He says it is like the Trek : https://www.triathlonforum.nl/viewtopic.php?pid=11804
He attended me on this forum, and I am glad I bought my frame at Dengfu, very fast and accurate, thanks Mina.:thumbsup: 
I am working on it, but not to fast, there is snow on the road here now.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## vladvm

independentmind said:


> Well done ! :thumbsup:
> 
> Where do you ride in Toronto? Maybe I'll run into you some time, I would love to see the frame. I am yet to see any of these frames being ridden locally, I certainly didn't see any of these in races last season. I'm putting together a Chinese TT frame for the upcoming season.
> 
> BTW: If you are looking for small parts check out urbane cyclist (ucycle.com) and torontocycles.com it's hard finding what we need in Toronto.


I'm 40min. drive north of T.O., took it for a ride today, this frame is fantastic. 
I get bargain high end parts from craiglist or kijiji, I always find what I'm looking for there, plus I meet very nice people. If I'm in a rush for something I just order online chainreactioncycles or got to MEC. sorry but I hate LBS-Too many salespeople, very little knowledge. 

I don't bike race but I commute to work with my bike, I race the clock.. No traffic here outside the city


----------



## independentmind

QUOTE=ClarkinHawaii]My understanding is that you absolutely cannot (safely) use a star nut with a carbon steerer (tube). Am I wrong?[/QUOTE]

I certainly would not. And besides, expanding bungs are much easier to install/remove/adjust. At least that's what I have in my carbon steerer, I also used some carbon paste for good measure.

I've actually been told that the expander can be removed after the top cap has been torqued down and the stem bolts have been secured around the fork steerer, since the assembly has been compressed there is no use for the plug to sit inside....mine is still in it, call me lazy.


----------



## independentmind

vladvm said:


> I'm 40min. drive north of T.O., took it for a ride today, this frame is fantastic.
> I get bargain high end parts from craiglist or kijiji, I always find what I'm looking for there, plus I meet very nice people. If I'm in a rush for something I just order online chainreactioncycles or got to MEC. sorry but I hate LBS-Too many salespeople, very little knowledge.
> 
> I don't bike race but I commute to work with my bike, I race the clock.. No traffic here outside the city


Heh, I just find shops is Toronto way overpriced, but torontocycles is great for little things like bolts, etc.

The last time I went into a shop they tried to sell me a wire bottle cage for $30, that was the end of it. :mad2: 

Thank goodness for the internet.


----------



## Guymk

I am with you guys on this, my lbs is knowledgeable but their prices are through the roof. They wanted $32 for some basic cinelli cork bar tape. I buy all my cycling stuff online and I hunt for the best prices and deals. For example i got a 2009 Sram rival group last year for $650. That is why I went with a chinese carbon frame, because I want the best bang for the buck, to use a cliche. 
Sometimes I feel bad for not supporting my lbs but I wouldn't be able to afford half the stuff i have if i bought everything at the lbs. 

Now to be on topic, my Fm015 should be here sometime early next week, and I should have all the parts by thursday-friday of next week and then I can start putting everything together .


----------



## zender

independentmind said:


> QUOTE=ClarkinHawaii]My understanding is that you absolutely cannot (safely) use a star nut with a carbon steerer (tube). Am I wrong?
> 
> I certainly would not. And besides, expanding bungs are much easier to install/remove/adjust. At least that's what I have in my carbon steerer, I also used some carbon paste for good measure.
> 
> I've actually been told that the expander can be removed after the top cap has been torqued down and the stem bolts have been secured around the fork steerer, since the assembly has been compressed there is no use for the plug to sit inside....mine is still in it, call me lazy.


There are some carbon steerers that have an aluminum liner inside so you can use the star-nut. But, on raw carbon, it's not a great idea. With a star nut (Alu or steel steerer), you can remove it and the topcap after tightening the stem since it doesn't do anything - but then you stare down at a hole in your steerer. The bung (carbon steerer) should not be removed because it resists the compression force of the stem. I definitely like using the bung over a star-nut because I like to leave the fork a bit long when first building ("just in case") and then chop it down after a few weeks or a month when I'm sure I'm sticking with that stem/stack height etc. With a star-nut, it's more hassle to remove and re-set at the right depth.


----------



## independentmind

zender said:


> There are some carbon steerers that have an aluminum liner inside so you can use the star-nut. But, on raw carbon, it's not a great idea. With a star nut (Alu or steel steerer), you can remove it and the topcap after tightening the stem since it doesn't do anything - but then you stare down at a hole in your steerer. *The bung (carbon steerer) should not be removed because it resists the compression force of the stem*. I definitely like using the bung over a star-nut because I like to leave the fork a bit long when first building ("just in case") and then chop it down after a few weeks or a month when I'm sure I'm sticking with that stem/stack height etc. With a star-nut, it's more hassle to remove and re-set at the right depth.


I did not think of that, good one. :thumbsup:


----------



## asherstash1

View attachment 218727


not far off done now! just waiting for extra thing of cable outer to finish off routeing and STILL for seatpost clamp, then bar wrap and off we go. well thats if the bloody snow clears! 
yes i know cables arent right yet and the seatpost is going to be higher (when i have clamp!) so no i havent bought wrong size frame! 

from very very brief ride, its mint and coming from what i was riding its a sodding revelation! and the force group is lovely too.


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

bevo21 said:


> Sorry, mine is not ready yet. But there is some one in the Netherlands who has one and is very glad with it. He says it is like the Trek : https://www.triathlonforum.nl/viewtopic.php?pid=11804
> He attended me on this forum, and I am glad I bought my frame at Dengfu, very fast and accurate, thanks Mina.:thumbsup:
> I am working on it, but not to fast, there is snow on the road here now.
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us




Hehe...That was me... :thumbsup:


----------



## vladvm

Unpacking Chinarello...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F82G_NGBEtU


----------



## shnrvll

paterberg said:


> Sweet looking bikes and lovely paintwork. Can you tell me, did Hongfu also provide the decals to your specifications? I've seen a number of painted Chinese frames but not too many with both paint and decals. Looks good. Thanks.


Hi Paterberg

Yes, Hongfu did the logo up for me as well, though they aren't actually decals - the logo is painted. I sent them a bitmap file of the logo and I also attached the true-type font file because it's a fairly uncommon font.

They charged me a one-off $125 to create a template for the logo.


----------



## athletic91

Gosh additional $125 just for the template..


----------



## MrPerkles

My Chinarello came with a different cable runner to the ones posted








here it is built up,went together with no issues at all


----------



## shimagnolo

mine..built and road tested today..:thumbsup:


----------



## solarFlash

Long time lurker on this thread, haven't ordered my FM015 yet, but I couldn't wait any longer so I built it up in 3D and textured it so I could get an idea of how it might look and also try out some other colour schemes!










Still messing around with graphics and decals, haven't settled on a final design just yet.


----------



## Vee

solarFlash said:


> Long time lurker on this thread, haven't ordered my FM015 yet, but I couldn't wait any longer so I built it up in 3D and textured it so I could get an idea of how it might look and also try out some other colour schemes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still messing around with graphics and decals, haven't settled on a final design just yet.


would you be willing to post that file? I would love to try out my own color schemes on a 3d version of the fm015!


----------



## vladvm

MrPerkles said:


> My Chinarello came with a different cable runner to the ones posted
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> here it is built up,went together with no issues at all


On your chinarello, the hole for the bolt holding the chain guide is at the correct location (near drive side). Mine is on near the non-drive side so I have to bend the guide into the hole. This solved the problem. This is probably why it was rejected by Pinarello on their qc check. Oh well my fix works.


----------



## MrPerkles

vladvm said:


> On your chinarello, the hole for the bolt holding the chain guide is at the correct location (near drive side). Mine is on near the non-drive side so I have to bend the guide into the hole. This solved the problem. This is probably why it was rejected by Pinarello on their qc check. Oh well my fix works.


you could drill the bb shell and fit an aluminium rivnut if your solution doesnt hold up


----------



## Guymk

shimagnolo said:


> mine..built and road tested today..:thumbsup:


Looks Great! Interesting way to wrap the bars, starting from the top like that. Mine should be here within the next few days and I am really looking forward to it!


----------



## carelgrundlingh

solarFlash said:


> Long time lurker on this thread, haven't ordered my FM015 yet, but I couldn't wait any longer so I built it up in 3D and textured it so I could get an idea of how it might look and also try out some other colour schemes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still messing around with graphics and decals, haven't settled on a final design just yet.


How did you do the drawings? Which template/program did you use? Looks good, also awaiting a FM018 and FM028 from DengFu. Wanna play around with designs as well.


----------



## solarFlash

I work as a freelance 3D modeller for video games etc, so it's not CAD type software I use. It was modelled from scratch based off a blueprint I found online for the FM015, then textured using photoshop. I could probably render off some colour variations or different styles if people are interested. 

Drop me an email or a pm if you're interested, or if someone wants another frame built in 3D I could do it so long as there is a blue print or some decent images from various available.

Vee - likewise, send me a mail and let me know what 3D software you use.

some extra views here too

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/135517/FM015/Fm0015_002.png
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/135517/FM015/Fm0015_003.png
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/135517/FM015/Fm0015_004.png


----------



## carelgrundlingh

solarFlash said:


> I work as a freelance 3D modeller for video games etc, so it's not CAD type software I use. It was modelled from scratch based off a blueprint I found online for the FM015, then textured using photoshop. I could probably render off some colour variations or different styles if people are interested.
> 
> Drop me an email or a pm if you're interested, or if someone wants another frame built in 3D I could do it so long as there is a blue print or some decent images from various available.
> 
> Vee - likewise, send me a mail and let me know what 3D software you use.
> 
> some extra views here too
> 
> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/135517/FM015/Fm0015_002.png
> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/135517/FM015/Fm0015_003.png
> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/135517/FM015/Fm0015_004.png


That look NICE! It looks like more fun designing the bike with your toys than actually riding it!!


----------



## asherstash1

lol the cable guide on my chin is different to both of the ones you have, will post pic when can be assed. 
is there any issue with the cable grinding/cutting through carbon where it goes into hole and right-angles up? 
what yours weighin at built up perks?


----------



## MrPerkles

asherstash1 said:


> lol the cable guide on my chin is different to both of the ones you have, will post pic when can be assed.
> is there any issue with the cable grinding/cutting through carbon where it goes into hole and right-angles up?
> what yours weighin at built up perks?


dunno it needs longer cables and a chain before I weigh it but it does feel lighter than my other one.Saying that im not that fussed about weight to be honest,only built it up because I was bored today


----------



## cfred84

solarFlash said:


> I work as a freelance 3D modeller for video games etc, so it's not CAD type software I use. It was modelled from scratch based off a blueprint I found online for the FM015, then textured using photoshop. I could probably render off some colour variations or different styles if people are interested.
> 
> Drop me an email or a pm if you're interested, or if someone wants another frame built in 3D I could do it so long as there is a blue print or some decent images from various available.
> 
> Vee - likewise, send me a mail and let me know what 3D software you use.
> 
> some extra views here too
> 
> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/135517/FM015/Fm0015_002.png
> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/135517/FM015/Fm0015_003.png
> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/135517/FM015/Fm0015_004.png


That's one sweet looking bike!!
Reminds me of a Colnago EPS I've been seeing around a bike shop I frequent
Incredible pics done using ur 3D program


----------



## asherstash1

i know what you mean, mines 5.5kg lighter than old bike so grams here and there dont mean squat tbh, its 8ish wit saddlebag, comp and heavy wheels and im damn happy wit that!


----------



## MX304

For those you have built the FM001 frame, what size BB did you end up needing?


----------



## skygodmatt

*Pulled the trigger*

My China experiment:

I pulled the trigger tonight on an FM028 from ebay seller: Carbonzone.
It's BB30 in a 58cm non-isp like in the photo below. He calls it an RB002. 

He is going to paint it matte black and I should have it in about 2 week I figure.
I will be finding my own post, seatclamp, headset, adjusters and build kit. 
Just got a Sram Red BB30 group to go on it. I've found seatposts at 190 grams and seatclamps at 14 grams. I think the non-isp versions weight about the same when you figure those heavy mast toppers. I also did not want to lose the adjustability in the future. 
I figure it should weigh in at about 15 pounds ready to roll. 

This gives me time for parts to trickle in . 
I'll post pics in about 2 weeks.


----------



## skygodmatt

Sorry....here it is:


----------



## shimagnolo

Guymk said:


> Looks Great! Interesting way to wrap the bars, starting from the top like that. Mine should be here within the next few days and I am really looking forward to it!


thanks! the fizik double tape is a little bit thicker and the bar end cap won't fit if i start wrapping at the bar end..so i started wrapping from top all the way down and use bar end lights instead..

good luck on your build..you will surely love how it rides mate..


----------



## carelgrundlingh

MrPerkles said:


> dunno it needs longer cables and a chain before I weigh it but it does feel lighter than my other one.Saying that im not that fussed about weight to be honest,only built it up because I was bored today


MrPerkles, I see you painted quite a few frames up to date....and it looks goooood.....so here goes:

Do you use a spraygun?
What kind of paint do you use? 2K?
What clearcoat do you use?
Does the paint make a little "bump"/ridge (lack of better words!LOL) where you mask? Or how do you get it as smooth crossover?

Any other tips on the paint jobs??? :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


----------



## MrPerkles

carelgrundlingh said:


> MrPerkles, I see you painted quite a few frames up to date....and it looks goooood.....so here goes:
> 
> Do you use a spraygun?
> What kind of paint do you use? 2K?
> What clearcoat do you use?
> Does the paint make a little "bump"/ridge (lack of better words!LOL) where you mask? Or how do you get it as smooth crossover?
> 
> Any other tips on the paint jobs??? :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


Hello CGL,I use a small tip HVLP spray gun
Polyester 1k for colours,2k for primer if needed,2k acyrlic for clear.
Mask ripples can be flatted out using 800 wet & dry,if you want to go to town clear coat let it dry then flat with 800 and clear once more to make it super smooth and shiny.
Cheers Andy


----------



## carelgrundlingh

MrPerkles said:


> Hello CGL,I use a small tip HVLP spray gun
> Polyester 1k for colours,2k for primer if needed,2k acyrlic for clear.
> Mask ripples can be flatted out using 800 wet & dry,if you want to go to town clear coat let it dry then flat with 800 and clear once more to make it super smooth and shiny.
> Cheers Andy


Thanks for your prompt replies!! And invaluable info! Think you should start a thread just for giving tips on custom paint jobs!  

I ordered my frames raw carbon, no clearcoat, so I don't need to do any prepping hey? (except smoothing rough spots)
Can/should I put on my decals before clearcoat? does this change anything in the method?
If I do use 2k instead of 1k for my colors, would the clearcoat (2k) take on 2K?
I read in the 3.0 stickey between you and WheresWaldo about him using a heatgun - is that neseccary?

Do i have to flatten/smooth/shine the colors before the clearcoat, or would the clearcoat take care of everything?

Thanks for picking your brains!!:thumbsup:


----------



## beij

I have just purchased a replacement FM 238 after a nasty crash resulted in a cracked frame, looking to replace the generic clamp on top of the seatpost. I noticed previous posts that discussed alternatives but I can't work out how to unlock the threads? Can anyone advise?


----------



## MrPerkles

carelgrundlingh said:


> Thanks for your prompt replies!! And invaluable info! Think you should start a thread just for giving tips on custom paint jobs!
> 
> I ordered my frames raw carbon, no clearcoat, so I don't need to do any prepping hey? (except smoothing rough spots)
> Can/should I put on my decals before clearcoat? does this change anything in the method?
> If I do use 2k instead of 1k for my colors, would the clearcoat (2k) take on 2K?
> I read in the 3.0 stickey between you and WheresWaldo about him using a heatgun - is that neseccary?
> 
> Do i have to flatten/smooth/shine the colors before the clearcoat, or would the clearcoat take care of everything?
> 
> Thanks for picking your brains!!:thumbsup:


Yes I clear coat over decals
Yes but I would rub down with 800 grit between coats
Ive never used a heat gun for anything but a high room temp when spraying works better in most cases
Depends on how good a finish you want,flatting with 800 between each stage of paint gives better results


----------



## asherstash1

beij said:


> I have just purchased a replacement FM 238 after a nasty crash resulted in a cracked frame, looking to replace the generic clamp on top of the seatpost. I noticed previous posts that discussed alternatives but I can't work out how to unlock the threads? Can anyone advise?


the mods foolishly removed the how to make threads open thread  you need to change the mode you view threads in... its answered right at beginning of this thread i think, wow, thats a lot of threads.


----------



## vladvm

For those thinking of ordering, package from maniac_bicycle took 9 days to deliver to my door via EMS. No fees, just required my signature._ 

　 2010-12-06 20:33:00 SHENZHEN Posting 
　 2010-12-06 21:44:00 SHENZHEN Despatch from Sorting Center 
　 2010-12-06 21:57:18 SHENZHEN Arrival at Sorting Center 
　 2010-12-06 22:37:21 SHENZHEN Despatch from Sorting Center 
　 2010-12-11 22:28:00 CANADA VANCOUVER Arrival at Sorting Center 
　 2010-12-11 22:28:00 CANADA VANCOUVER Handed over to Customs 
　 2010-12-13 08:16:00 CANADA VANCOUVER Released from Customs 
　 2010-12-15 08:35:00 CANADA L4X Arrival at Delivery Office 
　 2010-12-15 10:36:00 CANADA L4X Attempted delivery 
　 2010-12-15 13:16:00 CANADA L4X Attempted delivery 
　 2010-12-15 16:58:00 CANADA L4X Attempted delivery 
　 2010-12-16 08:59:00 CANADA L4X Delivery 

_


----------



## RoJo

Hi, anyone who bought from this company ADK Technology Limited, seems to have fine frames?
I had some contact with Kathy Ko and it sounds good.
www.adtec.com


----------



## carelgrundlingh

MrPerkles said:


> Yes I clear coat over decals
> Yes but I would rub down with 800 grit between coats
> Ive never used a heat gun for anything but a high room temp when spraying works better in most cases
> Depends on how good a finish you want,flatting with 800 between each stage of paint gives better results


Hopefully this is the last of me bugging you... 

What type of paint is in the spraycans? As i have it, its either laquer or enamel?
As i am only doing a few stripes on the bike (red and white) before clearcoating everything with 2K, would one of these 2 do the trick, or would I compromise finish/quality? Or would you recommend I rather go the 2K/1K (colors) and 2K clearcoat route?

You've been a great help, thanks!!!


----------



## WheresWaldo

carelgrundlingh said:


> Thanks for your prompt replies!! And invaluable info! Think you should start a thread just for giving tips on custom paint jobs!
> 
> I ordered my frames raw carbon, no clearcoat, so I don't need to do any prepping hey? (except smoothing rough spots)
> Can/should I put on my decals before clearcoat? does this change anything in the method?
> If I do use 2k instead of 1k for my colors, would the clearcoat (2k) take on 2K?
> I read in the 3.0 stickey between you and WheresWaldo about him using a heatgun - is that neseccary?
> 
> Do i have to flatten/smooth/shine the colors before the clearcoat, or would the clearcoat take care of everything?
> 
> Thanks for picking your brains!!:thumbsup:


I used a heat gun because it was just a bit on the cool side in my garage. My next spay job (older PedalForce RS) is waiting until spring so the temps will be higher. MrPerkles is correct higher room temp. is better.


----------



## WheresWaldo

RoJo said:


> Hi, anyone who bought from this company ADK Technology Limited, seems to have fine frames?
> I had some contact with Kathy Ko and it sounds good.
> www.adtec.com


ADK is one of the suppliers for Pedal Force as well as some of the BikesDirect carbon frames. Except that is not their website, try this one: http://adktec.myweb.hinet.net/about_adk.htm


----------



## Guymk

I also saw Scattante's sub1000g CFR frameset on that website. They probably don't do individual orders though.


----------



## vladvm

I think the Pinarello knock-offs are not actually spec like "Prince" but certainly around the FP7 level.

The FP7...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIW8bmTvr-A&feature=related


----------



## asherstash1

lol i can deal with that, even the fp7 is £3500! mine wasnt


----------



## MrPerkles

carelgrundlingh said:


> Hopefully this is the last of me bugging you...
> 
> What type of paint is in the spraycans? As i have it, its either laquer or enamel?
> As i am only doing a few stripes on the bike (red and white) before clearcoating everything with 2K, would one of these 2 do the trick, or would I compromise finish/quality? Or would you recommend I rather go the 2K/1K (colors) and 2K clearcoat route?
> 
> You've been a great help, thanks!!!


to be safe use the same brand of paint all the way through
I am not a fan of spray cans but it doesnt mean you wont get good results just harder to get there


----------



## paterberg

shnrvll said:


> Hi Paterberg
> 
> Yes, Hongfu did the logo up for me as well, though they aren't actually decals - the logo is painted. I sent them a bitmap file of the logo and I also attached the true-type font file because it's a fairly uncommon font.
> 
> They charged me a one-off $125 to create a template for the logo.


Many thanks for that


----------



## aharrod

OK, I have followed these threads with great interest. I recently drove my Pedalforce RS2 into my garage after 7 years with no problems. ARGH. I am contemplating the FM015, and the FM028., both in size 58. I understand the stack heigh differences, and I can ride the FM015 with 2cm of spacers with no problems, or the 028 with none. However, I do race and I was hoping I could get some feedback on stiffness, and ride quality on both frames, both from racers and non racers. 

Also does anyone know how much time a paint job adds to the wait time?

Thanks and Happy Holidays!!


----------



## skygodmatt

FM015 for sure. 

2cm of spacers are nothing. That would look great. Plus you are getting slightly shorter chainstays and smaller triangles for slightly better stiffness and lighter weight. 

I wish I can get that low. But with a bb to saddle height of 80.5cm---no can do. 
I had to get the 028.


----------



## Vee

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but according to the FM 015 Geometry Chart, the HA is 73 degrees. That means a -17 degree stem should put the stem angle at 0 degrees. However, I have yet to find a picture of an FM015 with a stem parallel to the ground. Most I have seen either have a few degrees of rise or an insane amount of rise. Has anyone seen a picture to confirm a -17 degree stem puts the stem angle to 0 degrees (completely parallel to the ground)?

Edit: Maybe the reason for this is that the 58cm is the only frame with a 73 degree HA. The rest of the frames seem to have a 72.5 degree HA.


----------



## adam_mac84

Has anyone began to compile a list of frames anywhere? It would be interesting to have something somewhere with frame 'number' (and comprable frame numbers from other companies). Its classification (race, relaxed, triathlon) etc, and maybe a geometry chart for them for easy comparison. I mean, it's fun and all to dig through 4 stickies, and i already have my bike, but when i direct friends etc toward this thread... basically the same 5 questions will be asked again 

I guess this is an echo of having a 'manufacturers' spot in the other sub forum


----------



## WheresWaldo

Vee said:


> Someone correct me if I am wrong, but according to the FM 015 Geometry Chart, the HA is 73 degrees. That means a -17 degree stem should put the stem angle at 0 degrees. However, I have yet to find a picture of an FM015 with a stem parallel to the ground. Most I have seen either have a few degrees of rise or an insane amount of rise. Has anyone seen a picture to confirm a -17 degree stem puts the stem angle to 0 degrees (completely parallel to the ground)?
> 
> Edit: Maybe the reason for this is that the 58cm is the only frame with a 73 degree HA. The rest of the frames seem to have a 72.5 degree HA.


The real reason is that most of us non-racers do not use a +-17° stem. I use a Ritchey which is readily available in a +-6°. I use it at -6° so I still have an upward angle of about 9°. I think that you will find most stems in use here are of the 6-8° variety.


----------



## beij

PBrooks said:


> Hello All, just received my 56 fm028 ISP and fork in 3k mat finish. It looks great and not too bad on the weight. Weights are as follow:
> 56 FM028 ISP frame - 1140g uncut
> fork - 415 uncut
> isp topper - 168 (not going to use)
> Tune cappy - 78g or there abouts
> 
> Not going to assemble until mid Jan. just collecting parts right now. Like some CB1's and some pretty trigon peices. Will post pics later.
> All the best
> Phillip


Hi Phillip,

Just wondering what size Tune cappy are you going to use? I have an FM 238 as well and am trying to work out what diameter I need. I went with an MSFK 38.2mm but $275 later realised it was way to big?
Cheers
Brett


----------



## paterberg

> Just wondering what size Tune cappy are you going to use? I have an FM 238 as well and am trying to work out what diameter I need. I went with an MSFK 38.2mm but $275 later realised it was way to big?
> Cheers
> Brett


Don't know about the FM028 but the FM015 has an ISP diameter of 37mm. Can you not use a shim with the MSFK?


----------



## vladvm

Just an update. I went on a 30km ride on my Chinarello today and I couldn't be happier. The ride was combination of flat and moderate rolling hills, not a lot of twisty but enough turns. The weather was around -6C no wind and very sunny.

Overall the frame has a supple ride and yet when I powered down, I literally felt the back wheel pushing me forward and it just kept accelerating. On climbs, it was very stiff when standing up so all the power was transferred to the rear wheel. (My wheels are the ultra stiff Mavic SL SSC's with Michelin pro3's)

Cornering was also precise, not twitchy at all (perhaps my turns are not as sharp as crit races and maybe I didn't want to corner too fast because of sand/salt on the road) The steering for my leisurely/semi-aggressive ride was just superb.

On the downhill, it did not feel fast but when I glanced at the bike computer, I was going 73.2km at the bottom of the hill. The bike was planted. 

On the flats, I was able to maintain 2.2km/h faster than my average speed. Maybe because I ate spaghetti the night before.

The bike is just amazing compared to my Specialized Festina which by that way is very stiff and is very good climbing bike.

Now I am just waiting for the sticker from Marco to finally finish it off.


----------



## skygodmatt

All the good newer carbon bikes are like that --compared to your 8 year old S-Works. 
Glad you got a good frame. 
Enjoy.


----------



## skygodmatt

*Fm-757*

Hey, 

Anyone got one of these?

I just got some info on the new 2011 FM-757 from gotobike. 
Here is the photo and their email. It looks great. 
They want $500 plus shipping. 
Available in both ENG and BB30
I have the geometry charts for each size.....they are too big to post here or attach to a PM. 
So, PM me your email and I'll send them. I won't spam you or release your email address.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, we will have the FM757 in about 10days. Here is the in invoice attach for you to pay. If pay, send me the address and phone number to ship the frame.

Here is the photo and geometry for your reference.

And the price list also attach to you.

Hope to get your reply soon.

Best regards,

Allyn Lin


2010-12-21
Sale Allyn Lin
MSN: [email protected]
Gmail :[email protected]
Skype: gotobike05
Mail box: [email protected]
Tel:0086-592-6530392
Fax:0086-592-6514558
OEM web:www.gotobike.com.cn
Gotobike carbon composite technology co.,ltd 
sales manager (Stephen Cai)
[email protected] 
Gotobike keeps regular stock of 400 sets framesets! 
GOTOBIKE at Taipei bike show
Mar 17-20 2010, Booth:N1401

GOTOBIKE at Shanghai bike Show
April 27-30 2010 booth W1-1722

not only supplier: partner in mould develop!


----------



## infopete

While I'm waiting for an outcome from my Merlin Cielo warranty I need a new road frame and I like the look of a Chinarello. 

I'm assuming the snow in the UK will eventually melt so I can get out on my bike too.

I've scoured these threads and would like to know where is the best place to buy one and what sort of price I can expect to pay.


----------



## alexb618

skygodmatt said:


> Hey,
> 
> Anyone got one of these?


looks very very similar to a FM028


----------



## skygodmatt

alexb618 said:


> looks very very similar to a FM028


Looks similar but it's very different:
The down tube is actually square. The fork has a different shape. Comparing the 58cm--the wheelbase is 101.4 not 99.2. The top tube is 58 not 57.3. The head tube angle is a shallow 72.5 not 73.8. Seat angle is the same at 73.


----------



## Guymk

Looks to me like a cross between the fm015 and the fm028. 
I now have all the parts for my fm015 except for the frame itself. I have been checking the tracking daily and it seems to be stuck in chinese customs..

2010-12-17 15:35:00 HUIYANG Posting 
　	2010-12-17 18:24:57	HUIZHOU Arrival at Sorting Center 
　	2010-12-17 18:31:50	HUIZHOU Despatch from Sorting Center 
　	2010-12-17 22:09:00	GUANGZHOU Arrival at Sorting Center 
　	2010-12-17 23:09:00	GUANGZHOU Handed over to Customs


----------



## Uppenbarligen...

Guymk said:


> Looks to me like a cross between the fm015 and the fm028.
> I now have all the parts for my fm015 except for the frame itself. I have been checking the tracking daily and it seems to be stuck in chinese customs..
> 
> 2010-12-17 15:35:00 HUIYANG Posting
> 2010-12-17 18:24:57	HUIZHOU Arrival at Sorting Center
> 2010-12-17 18:31:50	HUIZHOU Despatch from Sorting Center
> 2010-12-17 22:09:00	GUANGZHOU Arrival at Sorting Center
> 2010-12-17 23:09:00	GUANGZHOU Handed over to Customs


My fm015 is also stuck in Guangzhou since Saturday (at the sorting center though, mine doesn't seem to have been handed over to the customs).


----------



## qwertyuiop

Mines @ customs in Guangzhou - Since the 15th or December. The wait is killing me


----------



## MX304

Mine just cleared customs:


Timing Site Status
　 2010-12-18 18:12:00 Posting 
　 2010-12-18 18:13:00 LCYX Despatch from Sorting Center 
　 2010-12-18 21:21:06 SHENZHEN Arrival at Sorting Center 
　 2010-12-18 22:37:08 SHENZHEN Despatch from Sorting Center 
　 2010-12-21 03:09:00 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA USSFOA Arrival at Sorting Center 
　 2010-12-21 03:10:00 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA USSFOA Handed over to Customs 
　 2010-12-21 08:46:00 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA USSFOA Released from Customs


----------



## Guymk

Oh man I hope they aren't having some sort of an issue or something at Guangzhou. Seems like everyone who has their frame going through Guangzhou is having delays. I am also hoping i don't get hit with extra customs charges...


----------



## vladvm

qwertyuiop said:


> Mines @ customs in Guangzhou - Since the 15th or December. The wait is killing me


That doesn't mean it is still with Chinese customs, it actually means it is on its way. The next tracking info should be item received by customs for review. Worry when it gets stuck with US customs. Goodluck!


----------



## bevo21

BlackDoggystyle said:


> Hehe...That was me... :thumbsup:


It is finished now, you gonna see me in Berg en Dal in a few months.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Weight is 7,9 kg, without pedals, not too bad for Ultegra triple and Fulcrum 5 wheelset. And watch; SRAM Red is over, Ultegra Blue is the new trend.:wink5:


----------



## drankk

Looks like that bike should be in TRON.


----------



## BernyMac

THAT is a nice looking bike. +1 on TRON


----------



## independentmind

bevo21 said:


> It is finished now, you gonna see me in Berg en Dal in a few months.
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us
> 
> 
> Weight is 7,9 kg, without pedals, not to bad for Ultegra triple and Fulcrum 5 wheelset. And watch; SRAM Red is over, Ultegra Blue is the new trend.:wink5:


How did you get the blue on the shifter paddle? Spray paint?

Just curious.


----------



## bevo21

The blue striping is cut out of 2m adhesive foil. There are some pieces left.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

BTW; what is TRON? Sorry, I am quite new on this forum (and from the Netherlands).


----------



## bevo21

Sorrry, double post


----------



## zender

bevo21 said:


> BTW; what is TRON? Sorry, I am quite new on this forum (and from the Netherlands).



http://disney.go.com/tron/


----------



## independentmind

This should help  no Chinese frame molds of this one yet though


----------



## vladvm




----------



## VAMurph

*Marco Stickers Questions*

I have some questions for those who've ordered stickers from Marco.

1. Did you have to provide specific sizes for each set of letters/numbers or did he provide them?
2. Did you provide colors or did he provide suggestions?
3. Did you request specific fonts or did he offer suggestions?
4. In what format did you send your designs?

Thanks
Murph


----------



## Uppenbarligen...

Guymk said:


> Oh man I hope they aren't having some sort of an issue or something at Guangzhou. Seems like everyone who has their frame going through Guangzhou is having delays. I am also hoping i don't get hit with extra customs charges...


My package has now left the sorting center after 5 days.


----------



## drankk

LOL @ all the TRON stuff. Seen both versions now and seriously condidering a lightcycle theme bike.


----------



## Guymk

Uppenbarligen... said:


> My package has now left the sorting center after 5 days.


Mine has now left the sorting center as well. I guess they were just backed up. Hopefully the frame will arrive early next week will i still have Christmas break from school.


----------



## adam_mac84

VAMurph said:


> I have some questions for those who've ordered stickers from Marco.
> 
> 1. Did you have to provide specific sizes for each set of letters/numbers or did he provide them? NO, i didn't
> 2. Did you provide colors or did he provide suggestions? YES,(he suggested, i tweaked)
> 3. Did you request specific fonts or did he offer suggestions? YES (but he can just do it for u if you want). I wanted to play off of the cannondale font
> 4. In what format did you send your designs? DIDN'T (he created and sent them to me), although i did send him a JPEG of my family crest that i wanted, and he incorporated
> 
> Thanks
> Murph


see above


----------



## motoricker

> Someone correct me if I am wrong, but according to the FM 015 Geometry Chart, the HA is 73 degrees. That means a -17 degree stem should put the stem angle at 0 degrees. However, I have yet to find a picture of an FM015 with a stem parallel to the ground. Most I have seen either have a few degrees of rise or an insane amount of rise. Has anyone seen a picture to confirm a -17 degree stem puts the stem angle to 0 degrees (completely parallel to the ground)?


Here is a pic of a similar frame with a -17° stem.
Later, I thought a slight rise actually looked better so I switched to -6° stem and adjusted the spacers lower. The level stem with the sloping top tube looked "funny" to me.


----------



## Vee

motoricker said:


> Here is a pic of a similar frame with a -17° stem.
> Later, I thought a slight rise actually looked better so I switched to -6° stem and adjusted the spacers lower. The level stem with the sloping top tube looked "funny" to me.


I JUST did a photoshop of this last night and am nearly at the same conclusion. With the extreme sloping of the FM015 and FM028, a completely parallel stem just does not seem to look right. Perhaps I will play around with my choices...


----------



## independentmind

Vee said:


> I JUST did a photoshop of this last night and am nearly at the same conclusion. With the extreme sloping of the FM015 and FM028, a completely parallel stem just does not seem to look right. Perhaps I will play around with my choices...


The pic link is broken.

This may work well for you https://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=K0090
-6°/+6 rise, it's what I have on my Caad


----------



## Vee

independentmind said:


> The pic link is broken.
> 
> This may work well for you https://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=K0090
> -6°/+6 rise, it's what I have on my Caad


Yep, thanks. From my research, it looks like (and these are numbers for the 58cm FM015):


A 6 degree stem rise will produce an 11 degree stem angle.
A 8 degree stem rise will produce a 9 degree stem angle.
A 10 degree stem rise will produce a 7 degree stem angle.
A 17 degree stem rise will produce a 0 degree stem angle.


Companies that produce:


6 degree stems: 3T, FSA, Ritchey
8 degree stems: Deda
10 degree stems: PRO, Easton
17 degree stems: 3T, Ritchey

The above list is not complete, and just a quickly put together list of some brands.


----------



## VAMurph

adam_mac84 said:


> see above



Thanks adam_mac84!!!


----------



## Spursrider

vladvm said:


> That doesn't mean it is still with Chinese customs, it actually means it is on its way. The next tracking info should be item received by customs for review. Worry when it gets stuck with US customs. Goodluck!


To those who have purchased from Hong Fu, Deng Fu and Greatkeenbike, did they declare the frame as gift or sample at low value? Did they include an invoice in the box?


----------



## rwhsurf

*Color scheme*

Thanks with the help of Gordon (RBR member), I was able to mock up two frames with different color schemes.

I am leaning towards the orange... however, the groupset I am adding is the SRAM Red Limited in yellow. Do you think the yellow and orange will clash?


----------



## Guymk

I think that they declare it as low value, at least that has been the pattern so far.


----------



## Vee

rwhsurf said:


> Thanks with the help of Gordon (RBR member), I was able to mock up two frames with different color schemes.
> 
> I am leaning towards the orange... however, the groupset I am adding is the SRAM Red Limited in yellow. Do you think the yellow and orange will clash?


Very clean. If I can make a suggestion. Rather than using paint, I would suggest having Vinyl cut to make those bands and colored layouts for your frame. That way you can order a completely carbon or black frame and you will be able to change the color scheme of your frame should you ever see fit. The banding of color like you have on the top tube and fork really lends itself well to vinyl because you can overlap it slightly on the bottom where it will not be seen and the vinyl will adhere very strongly to itself.


----------



## drankk

No orange and yellow. Not a pro color scheme. This isnt a citrus grove... or footon servetto


----------



## thefutureofamerica

1) Footon Servetto's bikes are metallic gold in color, not orange or yellow.

2) Footon Servetto ride hands-down the best-looking bikes and worst-looking kit in the peloton.

3) I would go for the orange between those two. It looks like its own cool thing, but the stark black and yellow thing is kinda spoken for by Livestrong... I think the orange/yellow is a good combo - just don't overdo it on your bar tape... go basic there. This is all, of course, unless you want it to look like a Livestrong bike. In that case, go yellow.


----------



## beij

paterberg said:


> Don't know about the FM028 but the FM015 has an ISP diameter of 37mm. Can you not use a shim with the MSFK?



Can probably make one from a beer can but ideally want the correct size, can't seem to find anyone who has an alternate ISP for FM 238?


----------



## thefutureofamerica

Vee said:


> Yep, thanks. From my research, it looks like (and these are numbers for the 58cm FM015):
> 
> 
> A 6 degree stem rise will produce an 11 degree stem angle.
> A 8 degree stem rise will produce a 9 degree stem angle.
> A 10 degree stem rise will produce a 7 degree stem angle.
> A 17 degree stem rise will produce a 0 degree stem angle.
> 
> 
> Companies that produce:
> 
> 
> 6 degree stems: 3T, FSA, Ritchey
> 8 degree stems: Deda
> 10 degree stems: PRO, Easton
> 17 degree stems: 3T, Ritchey
> 
> The above list is not complete, and just a quickly put together list of some brands.


This is just based on measuring the drawings - I don't have my frame yet... but the top tube angle on the FM-015 is about 2-3 degrees. So, if the goal is to make your stem parallel to your top tube, which IMHO looks the best, fit aside, then you need about a -14 degree stem by that calculation. That said, I don't think that's right, because I think Bevo21's bike just about has the angle nailed down for parallel... there are some others on here, too, like the guy who got the "NONAME" decals and put lightweights and an SRM on his 015.


----------



## MX304

Got my FM001 from Carbonzone today. Everything arrived as ordered and undamaged. The headset races in the head tube will need a small amount of deburring but nothing major at all. The included headset has the correct tension plug instead of the star nut that some received so I should be able to use it as is. I am waiting on the rest of my build parts to get here, so I probably won't get it built up until after the first of the year.


----------



## ntb1001

rwhsurf said:


> Thanks with the help of Gordon (RBR member), I was able to mock up two frames with different color schemes.
> 
> I am leaning towards the orange... however, the groupset I am adding is the SRAM Red Limited in yellow. Do you think the yellow and orange will clash?



If you're using Sram Red Tour de France Yellow Edition, go for the YELLOW.


----------



## independentmind

MX304 said:


> Got my FM001 from Carbonzone today. Everything arrived as ordered and undamaged. The headset races in the head tube will need a small amount of deburring but nothing major at all. The included headset has the correct tension plug instead of the star nut that some received so I should be able to use it as is. I am waiting on the rest of my build parts to get here, so I probably won't get it built up until after the first of the year.


Great, maybe you can enlighten me as to where those two metal ring washers are supposed to go, i fit one under the top cap to provide a little more clearance to help the steerer rotate, but the other one has me scratching my head.

I can't find any documentation on the Neco headset anywhere.


----------



## MX304

independentmind said:


> Great, maybe you can enlighten me as to where those two metal ring washers are supposed to go, i fit one under the top cap to provide a little more clearance to help the steerer rotate, but the other one has me scratching my head.
> 
> I can't find any documentation on the Neco headset anywhere.



Actually I was wondering exactly the same thing. I mocked mine up without them and have plenty of clearance everywhere.


----------



## PBrooks

What is a FM238, I have not heard of this one. When the question of ISP topper came up I thought the FM238 was a typo, but no idea what FM238 is.


----------



## independentmind

MX304 said:


> Actually I was wondering exactly the same thing. I mocked mine up without them and have plenty of clearance everywhere.


I found slipping one under the top cap helped it rotate a little better, but if it works it works.

BTW the silver/white/red combo looks really good, white bar tape will pickup on that really nice. And thanks for vacuuming prior to taking the pic


----------



## MX304

PBrooks said:


> What is a FM238, I have not heard of this one. When the question of ISP topper came up I thought the FM238 was a typo, but no idea what FM238 is.



It is one of the frames offered by some suppliers.


----------



## MX304

independentmind said:


> I found slipping one under the top cap helped it rotate a little better, but if it works it works.
> 
> BTW the silver/white/red combo looks really good, white bar tape will pickup on that really nice. And thanks for vacuuming prior to taking the pic



Thanks! The bars are white, and I will run white bar tape. The Brake levers will be black to break it up a little. The brakes themselves will be silver. I haven't decided on saddle color yet. I may go for one that is black with a little bit or red detailing. It just depends on what colors are offered on the saddle I choose.


----------



## paterberg

beij said:


> Can probably make one from a beer can but ideally want the correct size, can't seem to find anyone who has an alternate ISP for FM 238?


Yeah I managed to fabricate one from a double layer of a Carlsberg tinnie though I haven't actually used it yet because the tune cappy doesn't give me enough setback. A proper sized seatpost mast would obviously be preferable but at present nobody appears to be manufacturing them in 37mm diameter.


----------



## alexb618

Vee said:


> I JUST did a photoshop of this last night and am nearly at the same conclusion. With the extreme sloping of the FM015 and FM028, a completely parallel stem just does not seem to look right. Perhaps I will play around with my choices...


i wouldnt say the FM015 is 'extreme sloping' at all, my 55cm is only about 20mm off having a horizontal top tube and an 8 degree stem looks completely normal on it


----------



## paterberg

alexb618 said:


> i wouldnt say the FM015 is 'extreme sloping' at all, my 55cm is only about 20mm off having a horizontal top tube and an 8 degree stem looks completely normal on it


+1 for that. My 55cm FM015 is only slightly sloping, certainly not extreme. And isn't the position of the stem in terms of bike fit not more important then how the stem "looks". I use a 110mm Deda Zero stem on my FM015 - looks grand and fits well,


----------



## ms6073

independentmind said:


> I found slipping one under the top cap helped it rotate a little better, but if it works it works


Those are microspacers that are optionally inserted between the red compression ring and the top cap and are used to prevent the top cap from contacting/binding on the head tube.


----------



## thefutureofamerica

paterberg said:


> +1 for that. My 55cm FM015 is only slightly sloping, certainly not extreme. And isn't the position of the stem in terms of bike fit not more important then how the stem "looks". I use a 110mm Deda Zero stem on my FM015 - looks grand and fits well,


There are multiple combinations of spacers, stem length, and stem angle that will give the same handlebar position... obviously you should use _a_ combination that gives the correct fit, but _which_ combination is more about how it looks.


----------



## Vee

paterberg said:


> +1 for that. My 55cm FM015 is only slightly sloping, certainly not extreme. And isn't the position of the stem in terms of bike fit not more important then how the stem "looks". I use a 110mm Deda Zero stem on my FM015 - looks grand and fits well,


I would agree with you. Position > looks. However, you can actually have both in regards to stem, it would seem. If you had to have a completely horizontal stem versus a slight angle, you could achieve this while also very closely replicating position using spacers under the more horizontal stem. I appreciate all of your opinions on the matter though. I would love to see a picture of your FM015's if you have not yet posted it.


----------



## independentmind

ms6073 said:


> Those are microspacers that are optionally inserted between the red compression ring and the top cap and are used to prevent the top cap from contacting/binding on the head tube.


So I guessed right  I may actually insert the second ring, I've been finding that it is seizing a little. I've also noticed that the top bearing assembly is starting to pop open (the metal ring coverying the bearings is lifting a little. I may have to replace the entire headset before race season. Then again, if everything is nice and tight there shouldn't be any issue with that the bearings flying out.

To be honest i know how much of a nightmare finding a compatible headset will be...Maybe.


----------



## looigi

rwhsurf said:


> ...I am leaning towards the orange... however, the groupset I am adding is the SRAM Red Limited in yellow. Do you think the yellow and orange will clash?


That is one helluva nice looking frame, IMO, but why go with the the yellow Red? I think the yellow Red doesn't look as good as the red Red, and what happens if you break something and need a replacement? How easy is it going to be to find a yellow Red component? 

Personally, I think you should go with the orange and red Red. But if you already have the yellow red, I still think orange.


----------



## drinkdrive

I got my FM015 in a couple days ago, but I'm still waiting on a cable kit, seatpost clamp, and stem to finish the build. Just dry fitting everything while I wait. I've read so many positive things about these on here, and I'm looking forward to putting some miles down soon.


----------



## zender

MX304 said:


> It is one of the frames offered by some suppliers.


I didn't know the number of this frame, so it's FM238, good to know. I took mine out for its first ride today. This will be my rain bike/beater. All used/ebay or leftover parts I had lying around. Not light by any means, but this is one stiff frame that's for sure.


As far as headsets, a previous 1 1/8" one I received on a prior frame did come with the expansion bung. But, this frame has a tapered headset (1 1/2" lower) and it came with the star-nut so I had to get an expansion plug at the LBS.


----------



## Spursrider

Seems like this frame is being sold by more than one supplier under different names 

https://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/...me.html?newId=384144580&pn=2&pt=10&t=12&cids=

Zender, what is your frame size and weight? 






MX304 said:


> It is one of the frames offered by some suppliers.


----------



## skygodmatt

takmanjapan said:


> I've seen it a few places - on Alibaba it was the Fm-010 but appears no one offers it anymore. Other manufacturers are selling this one, too:
> 
> Velonia (Estonia)
> Flandria
> Prestigio (Italy)
> Rossetti
> et al.



Thanks. That SLX looks like it might ride a little stiff with the thick seat stays and massive seat stay /top tube junction. I'll pass.

Can anyone give me a ride report on the FM-028 frame set? I want to know stiffness with the BB30 and ride comfort over rough roads. Just bought one in a 58cm last week. Here in Early January.


----------



## adam_mac84

skygodmatt said:


> Thanks. That SLX looks like it might ride a little stiff with the thick seat stays and massive seat stay /top tube junction. I'll pass.
> 
> Can anyone give me a ride report on the FM-028 frame set? I want to know stiffness with the BB30 and ride comfort over rough roads. Just bought one in a 58cm last week. Here in Early January.


 ive only been able to ride mine a few miles due to a foot surgery, but it can tell you, it does ride well compared to my aluminum frame, but is a bit more upright as well...


----------



## zender

Spursrider said:


> Seems like this frame is being sold by more than one supplier under different names
> 
> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/3...me.html?newId=384144580&pn=2&pt=10&t=12&cids=
> 
> Zender, what is your frame size and weight?


Mine is a 52 cm. The frame weighed 1200g and the fork 400g uncut. There's a lot of material on this frame. That headtube area looked to me like a gusseted mt. bike frame when I first saw it which is why I dig the look. But you can tell by my craptastic wheels on that bike that light weight wasn't my goal with this build


----------



## independentmind

zender said:


> Mine is a 52 cm. The frame weighed 1200g and the fork 400g uncut. There's a lot of material on this frame. That headtube area looked to me like a gusseted mt. bike frame when I first saw it which is why I dig the look. But you can tell by my craptastic wheels on that bike that light weight wasn't my goal with this build


I really like the look of the headtube area too, that downtube looks massive (kinda like my CAAD9). I think with a little work that frame can be turned into a decent racing rig.


----------



## athletic91

Is 1200g including the Bb30 to 68mm adapter shell


----------



## telecodan

*rear brake cable routing for fm0028*

I am building a fm0028, everything is ok except the rear brake cable internal routing. There is too much friction so the caliper does not work properly. I cut the casing, put ferrules so the inner cable pass trough the frame without casing. Is it the right way to do it or should I drill the openings on the frame so I can pass the casing troughout the frame.
CAn somebody help me ? 
I bought the frame, fork, seat post, carbon handlebar, head set from Dengfu. It takes three weeks to come and the total cost was 591$.
The frame weight 1081g for a 50cm and the fork 415g uncut


----------



## zender

athletic91 said:


> Is 1200g including the Bb30 to 68mm adapter shell


Negative, not including the adapter. The weight includes only the cable guide below the bottom bracket (which I ultimately changed to a Shimao one (purple plastic) since the one supplied by carbonzone didn't line up with the holes correctly.) Weight also doesn't include barrel adjusters, seat post clamp.

I'm not using the BB30 adapter, I put a FSA BB30 crank on there.

IMO, I don't think this is the frame to get if you want to shave grams.


----------



## mrbubbles

I found a really long thread over at foromtb.com on Chinallero.










https://www.foromtb.com/showthread.php?632629-1er-Pdo.-Pinarello.-GreatKeenBike-por-500usd


----------



## MX304

That thread will keep google translator working over time for me...


----------



## telecodan

rear brake cable routing for fm0028
I am building a fm0028, everything is ok except the rear brake cable internal routing. There is too much friction so the caliper does not work properly. Do the cable casing pass throughout the frame.
Can somebody help me ?
I bought the frame, fork, seat post, carbon handlebar, head set from Dengfu. It takes three weeks to come and the total cost was 591$.
The frame weight 1081g for a 50cm and the fork 415g uncut
The complete bike weight 16.75 pounds with Ultegra 6500 and RS80 wheels.


----------



## vis8892

my fm015 build:

View attachment 219333


Frame, fork, seatpost, stem and handlebars from DengFu. Tony didn't send the seat clamp as he said, but picked one up when I bought the cable adjusters from ebikestop.

Overall, the frame quality is good, except the internal cable routing for the rear brake which is bad, bad, bad. Bad enough that I would not buy another FM015. The problem is that the holes do not line up on the front routing guide. I setup the rear brake and it bound horribly so that the brake would not release. This also got the housing ferrule wedged in frame. Hard to like a frame when one of the first things you need to do is take a drill to it. If you build up a FM015, make sure you inspect the front internal cable routing and do not put a ferrule on the cable housing. There are plenty of posts with complaints about internal routing on DengFu frames.

Three other minor adjustments - had to file the non-drive rear dropout to remove resin so that the axle would slip in. Had to sand the fork crown to get the race to seat. Had to sand the lower head tube bearing race to get the bearing to slip in.

Did get to ride it a couple of days ago in the cold. Frame is very stiff, accelerates well, tracks straight, and turns quick. Need to get more time on it which probably won't be for a while. Plan on racing it next year.


----------



## vis8892

telecodan said:


> rear brake cable routing for fm0028
> I am building a fm0028, everything is ok except the rear brake cable internal routing. There is too much friction so the caliper does not work properly. Do the cable casing pass throughout the frame.
> Can somebody help me ?
> I bought the frame, fork, seat post, carbon handlebar, head set from Dengfu. It takes three weeks to come and the total cost was 591$.
> The frame weight 1081g for a 50cm and the fork 415g uncut
> The complete bike weight 16.75 pounds with Ultegra 6500 and RS80 wheels.


Check the front routing guide for the frame. On my FM015 the holes did not line up. (had to look real close into the frame). I had to route the housing without a ferrule to get the rear brake to work. Maybe as a last resort you can take a drill and try to open the hole.


----------



## zender

I have to say that with 2 bikes that have internal routing and one that is all external (a Litespeed) , internal routing is so not worth the hassle. In a 40K TT, how much time do you think internal routing shaves?


----------



## drankk

Has anyone built up any of the mtb frames. Do they have 29" or is it all 26"?


----------



## MX304

drankk said:


> Has anyone built up any of the mtb frames. Do they have 29" or is it all 26"?


There are a few scattered threads on mtbr about them. One was discussing a 29" but the last time I looked at the tread, he wasn't done building it yet. If I can find that thread again I'll post the link. My next project will probably be a 26' carbon mtb frame to replace my old alloy Giant that cracked the last time out. (After 5-6 years of abuse).


----------



## thefutureofamerica

vis8892 said:


> my fm015 build:
> 
> View attachment 219333
> 
> 
> Frame, fork, seatpost, stem and handlebars from DengFu. Tony didn't send the seat clamp as he said, but picked one up when I bought the cable adjusters from ebikestop.
> 
> Overall, the frame quality is good, except the internal cable routing for the rear brake which is bad, bad, bad. Bad enough that I would not buy another FM015. The problem is that the holes do not line up on the front routing guide. I setup the rear brake and it bound horribly so that the brake would not release. This also got the housing ferrule wedged in frame. Hard to like a frame when one of the first things you need to do is take a drill to it. If you build up a FM015, make sure you inspect the front internal cable routing and do not put a ferrule on the cable housing. There are plenty of posts with complaints about internal routing on DengFu frames.
> 
> Three other minor adjustments - had to file the non-drive rear dropout to remove resin so that the axle would slip in. Had to sand the fork crown to get the race to seat. Had to sand the lower head tube bearing race to get the bearing to slip in.
> 
> Did get to ride it a couple of days ago in the cold. Frame is very stiff, accelerates well, tracks straight, and turns quick. Need to get more time on it which probably won't be for a while. Plan on racing it next year.


Re: the discussion below, I think you're spot on aesthetically with your stem angle. What stem is that and what's the angle?

Bike looks sick - I'm psyched because I've got the same frame coming in and the same gruppo ready to go on it.


----------



## vis8892

thefutureofamerica said:


> Re: the discussion below, I think you're spot on aesthetically with your stem angle. What stem is that and what's the angle?
> 
> Bike looks sick - I'm psyched because I've got the same frame coming in and the same gruppo ready to go on it.


Stem is the standard stem from DengFu. Finish is just OK, one of the binder bolts screws a little tight. Probably wouldn't buy one of these again. Don't know the angle, will have to measure when I get back home.


----------



## telecodan

Thanks for advice
I will try to get the ferrules out of there and I will drill the holes so I can pass the casing through the top tube and correct the problem. Is somebody have done that ? Is there something to be aware of when doing that ?


----------



## Guymk

Yes thanks for the advice I will make sure to check the rear cable routing. I ordered my fm015 from Hongfu though so I hope that I won't have any issues.


----------



## cs1

*Chinese Frame VS Bikesdirect Frame*

Has anyone tried the BD frameset compared to the Chinese version? I saw it on the Bike Island site. Price looked good considering shipping should be cheaper than most of the Chinese versions. Link below.

http://bikeisland.com/cgi-bin/BKTK_STOR20.cgi?Action=Details&ProdID=777


----------



## ms6073

zender said:


> internal routing is so not worth the hassle.


If the frame comes prepped with some kind of runner that can be used to pull or guide the new cables through the first time, then it is not that big of a hassle - at least not until you get in a hurry to replace cables and forget to chase something in the internal cable run to giude the replacement cable. :blush2: 



zender said:


> In a 40K TT, how much time do you think internal routing shaves?


In reality the answer is dependent on things like frame design, wheel choice, and the riders ability to get aero on the bike but for mnost of us, it looks cool and the feeling is if Cancellara uses, then why not me?


----------



## vis8892

ms6073 said:


> If the frame comes prepped with some kind of runner that can be used to pull or guide the new cables through the first time, then it is not that big of a hassle - at least not until you get in a hurry to replace cables and forget to chase something in the internal cable run to giude the replacement cable. :blush2:
> 
> 
> In reality the answer is dependent on things like frame design, wheel choice, and the riders ability to get aero on the bike but for mnost of us, it looks cool and the feeling is if Cancellara uses, then why not me?


With the DengFu frames, internal routing is not a problem. There is a tube that runs through the frame so feeding the cable is easy. The problem is that the internal tube does not line up with the hole of the aluminum guide that is bonded to the frame, especially on the front guide. So, it's really bad prep work on DengFu's part. On some frames (like mine) it is worse than on others, but I'm not the only one who has had rear brake cable binding problems.


----------



## WheresWaldo

cs1 said:


> Has anyone tried the BD frameset compared to the Chinese version? I saw it on the Bike Island site. Price looked good considering shipping should be cheaper than most of the Chinese versions. Link below.
> 
> http://bikeisland.com/cgi-bin/BKTK_STOR20.cgi?Action=Details&ProdID=777


From several messages on BikeForums when this frame was released, this is a Taiwanese frame made by ADK. It is the same mold as the PedalForce QS2 (later renamed the RS) that came out a few years ago. The frame uses a lower grade carbon than the PedalForce but rides pretty much the same. Look for reviews and pretty much everyone that owns one of these or the PF-RS like them very much. BTW, I have three Pedal Force RS (two are mine and one is my daughter's) frames.


----------



## Guymk

Darn snow storms up north have JFK airport shut down... Which happens to be where my frame is right now.. Yay for delays!


----------



## ColoRoadie

vis8892 said:


> With the DengFu frames, internal routing is not a problem. There is a tube that runs through the frame so feeding the cable is easy. The problem is that the internal tube does not line up with the hole of the aluminum guide that is bonded to the frame, especially on the front guide. So, it's really bad prep work on DengFu's part. On some frames (like mine) it is worse than on others, but I'm not the only one who has had rear brake cable binding problems.


I haven't heard of this problem before. Mine hasn't exhibited any problems with this. Have any pictures you can post?


----------



## athletic91

zender said:


> I didn't know the number of this frame, so it's FM238, good to know. I took mine out for its first ride today. This will be my rain bike/beater. All used/ebay or leftover parts I had lying around. Not light by any means, but this is one stiff frame that's for sure.
> 
> 
> As far as headsets, a previous 1 1/8" one I received on a prior frame did come with the expansion bung. But, this frame has a tapered headset (1 1/2" lower) and it came with the star-nut so I had to get an expansion plug at the LBS.


Would a 34.9 mm clamp on FD work?

I see some pics that the frame has a braze, some dont.
Im about to pull the trigger for a clamp on 34,9 fd for a killer price


----------



## alexb618

ColoRoadie said:


> I haven't heard of this problem before. Mine hasn't exhibited any problems with this. Have any pictures you can post?


i don't really like internal routing because it is pointless, can be a pain to set up and makes the brakes feel pretty average. on the fm015 it has been fine though, one of the better internally routed frames i have used. i am curious to see a pic of the issue mentioned above too.


----------



## zender

athletic91 said:


> Would a 34.9 mm clamp on FD work?
> 
> I see some pics that the frame has a braze, some dont.
> Im about to pull the trigger for a clamp on 34,9 fd for a killer price


You are right, some of the designs have braze-on, the 238 is clamp for whatever reason.

Yes, that is the correct clamp size - but my order from carbonzone included a 34.9 clamp-on adapter at no extra charge (without me asking for it). I was building mine on the cheap using Microshift which only comes in braze-on. Don't torque down too much on that clamp


----------



## ms6073

ColoRoadie said:


> I haven't heard of this problem before. Mine hasn't exhibited any problems with this. Have any pictures you can post?


Nor has my TT frameset exhibited this issue but I will say that a little more thought could have gone into the cable routing into the 3 holes in the top tube. It would have been nice if they had routed the rear brake cable through the front hole and the deraileur cables through the two rear holes. As for braking with internal cables, while not truely internal, my Giant TCR Advanced SL passes the rear brake cable run through a hole in the top tube and using Gore Ride-On Sealed low-friction brake cables and I note no issues with braking. My GIant TCX Advanced SL cyclocross frameset uses all internal cable runs and again, while a tad more cumbersome to install, I have really enjoyed not having to constantly adjust cables/deraileur adjustments this cx season - really nice for a bike that spends the majority of the time in sand, water, & mud.


----------



## Schnor

I am new to this forum but did read this topic and also 1, 2 and 3. But still there are some things not completely clear to me. Everyone talks about FM015 and FM028. When I looked up at the Dengfu and Hongfu website I found out that the both have a FM015 frame.

The geometry of the Dengfu FM015 non isp is identical to the Hongfu HF-FM015. Are the looks / shape of both frames also identical? I have the idea they are just a bit different from each other. 

Ebay seller Carbonzone is someone from Dengfu I presume. The RB002 and RB003 are the Dengfu FM015 and FM028?


----------



## skygodmatt

Yes. 

The RB002 from Carbonzone is a FM-028. 
I just ordered one from him and it's in customs right now. 

I can't tell you the differences between the ISP and non-ISP other than the obvious seat mast. I remember seeing a post with photos from a rider who bought one of each. Maybe you can seek him out.


----------



## Schnor

I am sorry non ISP is a bit confussing maybe. I mean the difference between both non isp models from Dengfu and Hongfu. 
So difference between Dengfu FM015 and Hongfu HF-FM015.


----------



## knef

Differences should be little, because they use the same mold.


----------



## 5thdisciple

Have noticed that some of the chinese TT frames are very similar in shape and structure to the new MCipollini Road bikes. Has anyone tried to convert one of these TT bikes for normal road bike usage? How would handling etc perform?

https://s998.photobucket.com/albums/af110/carbonzone/?action=view&current=P1160319.jpg

https://sweatngears.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/sweatngears_cipollini_0076.jpg


----------



## 5thdisciple

double post


----------



## Vee

5thdisciple said:


> Have noticed that some of the chinese TT frames are very similar in shape and structure to the new MCipollini Road bikes. Has anyone tried to convert one of these TT bikes for normal road bike usage? How would handling etc perform?
> 
> https://s998.photobucket.com/albums/af110/carbonzone/?action=view&current=P1160319.jpg
> 
> https://sweatngears.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/sweatngears_cipollini_0076.jpg


I don't think they are similar in geometry. The TT frame appears to have a much shorter top tube which is common in TT frames versus road bike frames. The aero road bike you see appears to have a road bike geometry with the aero styling of a TT frame.


----------



## zender

5thdisciple said:


> Have noticed that some of the chinese TT frames are very similar in shape and structure to the new MCipollini Road bikes. Has anyone tried to convert one of these TT bikes for normal road bike usage? How would handling etc perform?
> 
> https://s998.photobucket.com/albums/af110/carbonzone/?action=view&current=P1160319.jpg
> 
> https://sweatngears.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/sweatngears_cipollini_0076.jpg



This is a tough call without knowing the frame sizes and actual geometry. The headtube on that MCipllini does look pretty short which is key to a TT position. The toptube looks longer so I suspect the seat-tube angle is a more slack road setup - but this is all guessing based on a jpg and not knowing the frame sizes/actually printing out the images and measuring them against a known standard like wheel size etc..


edit: https://www.mcipollini.com/en/biciclette/rb1000#geometrie

Looks like a pretty standard road geometry 74.5 degree seat-tube angle. Oddly, they do have a pic of the same frame setup for TT


----------



## MX304

zender said:


> This is a tough call without knowing the frame sizes and actual geometry. The headtube on that MCipllini does look pretty short which is key to a TT position. The toptube looks longer so I suspect the seat-tube angle is a more slack road setup - but this is all guessing based on a jpg and not knowing the frame sizes/actually printing out the images and measuring them against a known standard like wheel size etc..
> 
> 
> edit: http://www.mcipollini.com/en/biciclette/rb1000#geometrie
> 
> Looks like a pretty standard road geometry 74.5 degree seat-tube angle. Oddly, they do have a pic of the same frame setup for TT


I have the frame geometry for the Chinese frame that looks similar somewhere. If I can ever find it I will post it. They might be close to the same because I remember that Chinese frame being fairly slack for a TT bike as well.


----------



## Wantax

Guys the FM028 has as default the bottom bracket bb30 or BB English?,In case that it is BB30 do the dengfu guys included the adaptor to BB english?

Regards.


----------



## Guymk

You can ask for either one, BB30 or normal 68mm English.


----------



## vis8892

thefutureofamerica said:


> Re: the discussion below, I think you're spot on aesthetically with your stem angle. What stem is that and what's the angle?
> 
> Bike looks sick - I'm psyched because I've got the same frame coming in and the same gruppo ready to go on it.


Just got time to measure the angle. It's 10 degrees.


----------



## vis8892

ColoRoadie said:


> I haven't heard of this problem before. Mine hasn't exhibited any problems with this. Have any pictures you can post?


Hope this picture shows things:

View attachment 219501


Red lines are the center of the guide, you can see the hole is at the top and not centered. Grey area at the blue line is carbon inside the frame. I took this after having done a ride and I think some of the aluminum guide has worn away more towards center. It looked worse when I first worked on it.

The drilling marred the matte finish, I guess I'll go back eventually and clean it up.


----------



## _dennis_

I'm not sure if this is the best place to ask but I've been lurking forever and finally decided I want to try my hand at building one of these especially after seeing some of the custom work but I haven't seen a thread detailing exactly what you need or maybe I'm just bad at search.

I've never actually built a bike from scratch and the extent of my experience is changing out a part here and there and every day type maintenance. 

Basically I'd like to know what all bits and bobs you would need once you ordered say FM-028. I'd like to just mass order everything at once so when it arrives I wouldn't need to grab anything else. I do understand sizes will be based on an individual.

Obvious stuff is like wheelset/groupo is obvious but little items like cables, stems, seat posts or clamps etc aren't quite so much for a newbie and I'd hate to have a pile of parts laying about and be missing something and not know what it is.

If there is a thread already available then I apologize and hope you can point me to it and if there isn't then I'm sure a bunch of people would appreciate one.


----------



## Guymk

You will need cables( brake and derailleur, Jagwire Racer kit is the best value imo), barrel adjusters, a 31.6mm seatpost, 34.9mm seatpost clamp, 34.9mm front derailleur clamp on, stem spacers, stem, handlebars, saddle, bar tape, bottle cages.

When and if you order an fm028 make sure you order a headset to go with it.

My fm015 didn't come with bottle cage hardware or the nuts for hanging the brake calipers(not sure where'd you get these), i stole some off another frame I had.

If you are not mechanically challenged you could build up a bike with the help of parktool's website, which has info on installing everything. There are a couple of special tools you would beed though, such as a bb removal tool, a cassette tool, and a chain whip.

If you are mechanically challenged then I would recommend you get your local bike shop to build the bike for you or a riding buddy who can wrench to build the frame for you.


----------



## Bkelly

Basically I'd like to know what all bits and bobs you would need once you ordered say FM-028. I'd like to just mass order everything at once so when it arrives I wouldn't need to grab anything else. I do understand sizes will be based on an individual.
.[/QUOTE said:


> There are a few internet companies out there (Colorado Cyclist, Jenson, Ebay) Where you can get build kits. These are customizable and are good for establishing a list. The only thing CoCy was missing, as an example, was a seat post clamp and bottle cages. I also suggest compiling a list and taking it to an LBS to see if they can come close to the cost. good will with my LBS goes a long way. I also had my graphics done locally by a shop that does custom applications for cars.
> 
> Good luck, have fun.


----------



## ms6073

vis8892 said:


> Hope this picture shows things:
> View attachment 219501
> 
> Red lines are the center of the guide, you can see the hole is at the top and not centered.


While the holes in the bottom of the inserts are not spot on in our frames, they are not off near as much as yours. I would try to widen the hole with a dremel tool and appropriate size drill bit and consider using a lined cable housing like Gore Ride-On Professional deraileur and the Sealed Low Friction brake cables. Our bikes have Zipp R2C shifters with DA 7900 deraileurs and did not shift worth a darn until I installed Gore Ride-On cables.


----------



## Cycling for Cancer

*Frame Performance Comparison?*

I have read the entire thread (4 stickys!). Thanks to all that have posted, this thread is awesome!

What I have not seen is a list of models and their name-brand counterpart. I am most interested in a road bike, and the ones that people have been discussing are the FM001, FM015 and FM028:

*FM001*-Pinarello (Prince and others)-wavy carbon fork and seatstay-1 1/8 headset. Solid handling, "plush" ride quality-cheapest frame.


















(I have also seen the FM001 with a straight fork option, and sometimes straight seatstays and a different shaped downtube (almost "pinched")-is that the Kuota Kredo?)










*FM015*-Cervelo (looks like R3/R5?) "Cervelo pioneered the thin seatstay"-1 1/2 headset. Reviewed as the most performance oriented frame: stiff, responsive, confidence inspiring descents










*FM028*-Trek Madone-1 1/2 headset. Comfortable ride, stiff, light, good climber, solid performance, confidence inspiring descents.











I have not seen many posts about the FM004










or FM006,










they both have 1 1/8 headsets.
Then there is the new kid on the block, the FM830 which is the lightest frame yet at 820g/fork 340g! Haven't seen any reviews of it yet.










I have also seen the FM027 (aka TP-R813-relatively new?) with shaped seatstays.










And the FM752 weighing 980g! 
And the FM239...no info. FM202...no info. FM721...no info. FM729...no info
FM-R009 1000g
FM238 shown on alibaba with 1 1/8-1 1/2 headset @950g

Greatkeen (Dengfu is their distributor?) has several models: 
RFM101=Pinarello Prince
RFM104 1 1/8-1 1/4 headset
RFM106-shaped fork and seat tube (more aero? is this a TT bike?)
RFM107-interesting shaped tubes-cannot identify it:










People seem to be pretty happy with the headset offerings from the dealers, and the 1 1/2 inch headset on the FM015 and FM028 seems to impart great handling characteristics to the frame.

I have not seen a consensus on seat masts, however. Can we get a few opinions, please? I realize that a seatmast makes the frame harder to pack for travel...but most of us will never ship our bikes. Trek claims that the seatmast area flexes for greater "vertical compliance" (read comfort)-but the few posts I have seen indicate that the seatmast is stiffer than a traditional seatpost and therefore "harsher" ride.

cheapcarbonframes.com has geometry diagrams and a spreadsheet of the suppliers.

Last, I have been in contact with Jenny and Tony, they both want me to supply a picture for paint jobs...eg they have not supplied me with any template or sketches. We should have a "Hall of Wisdom" or some such repository for important information such as paint schemes, geometry diagrams, seller contact and rating information etc.


----------



## skygodmatt

For seatposts and mast caps this is a good place for high end stuff--like the Tune Cappy and others riders really like: 

http://fairwheelbikes.com/seatposts-c-20.html


----------



## Bacana

Cycling for Cancer said:


> I have not seen many posts about the FM004


PLEASE tell me that that does NOT say _BOCUS_.


----------



## _dennis_

Guymk said:


> You will need cables( brake and derailleur, Jagwire Racer kit is the best value imo), barrel adjusters, a 31.6mm seatpost, 34.9mm seatpost clamp, 34.9mm front derailleur clamp on, stem spacers, stem, handlebars, saddle, bar tape, bottle cages.
> 
> When and if you order an fm028 make sure you order a headset to go with it.
> 
> My fm015 didn't come with bottle cage hardware or the nuts for hanging the brake calipers(not sure where'd you get these), i stole some off another frame I had.
> 
> If you are not mechanically challenged you could build up a bike with the help of parktool's website, which has info on installing everything. There are a couple of special tools you would beed though, such as a bb removal tool, a cassette tool, and a chain whip.
> 
> If you are mechanically challenged then I would recommend you get your local bike shop to build the bike for you or a riding buddy who can wrench to build the frame for you.





Bkelly said:


> There are a few internet companies out there (Colorado Cyclist, Jenson, Ebay) Where you can get build kits. These are customizable and are good for establishing a list. The only thing CoCy was missing, as an example, was a seat post clamp and bottle cages. I also suggest compiling a list and taking it to an LBS to see if they can come close to the cost. good will with my LBS goes a long way. I also had my graphics done locally by a shop that does custom applications for cars.
> 
> Good luck, have fun.



Thanks and thanks.

I'd like to do the entire build myself as I am pretty handy. I've simply gone to my LBS to throw them some support typically when I get a new bike since I always order everything else online. They always answer any questions and help me out when necessary so I figure it's the least I can do.

I'm about to do a full group swap off from my new bike so I'm going to have a full unused 105 set including wheelset but minus shifters (since it's a tri bike and has DA on the aero bars) and figure I can grab some 105 sti's cheap off eBay or something.

I'll take a look at the build kits though as well.


----------



## PBrooks

Seat mast toppers for all but the fm238 which is 34.9 and can be sourced many different ways, is 37mm. Now with 37mm, fairwheelsbike is a good source but so is starbike, either way you are looking at 2 the MCFK and Tune cappy. The MCFK is 38.2 and 250 for roughly 80g. The Tune cappy is 38.3 for about 150 and roughly 74g. Both of these require a shim of some sort. I think the shim will be a much safer option than reversing a seatpost and cutting slits in the top of the mast, but that is another option. I am going with the Tune cappy from Starbike but that is only because fairwheels didn't have stock.


----------



## independentmind

5thdisciple said:


> Have noticed that some of the chinese TT frames are very similar in shape and structure to the new MCipollini Road bikes. Has anyone tried to convert one of these TT bikes for normal road bike usage? How would handling etc perform?
> 
> https://s998.photobucket.com/albums/af110/carbonzone/?action=view&current=P1160319.jpg
> 
> https://sweatngears.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/sweatngears_cipollini_0076.jpg


I own the first frame and I can 100% confirm that it wouldn't work in a road configuration, reason being that the the geometry would put you into a VERY extreme position (since the headtube sits so low).


----------



## skygodmatt

*Fm-757*

Don't forget the new 757.

Gotobike.com has it for 2011. It looks like a Cervelo R3 clone with the thin seat stays and square downtube. Looks pretty comfy and stiff to me. 
They sent me a price list. $500 frame and fork.


----------



## rruff

Cycling for Cancer said:


> *FM028*-Trek Madone-1 1/2 headset. Comfortable ride, stiff, light, good climber, solid performance, confidence inspiring descents.


And pretty. Every time I look at mine, I'm like "damn... nice lines."


----------



## MX304

Made a little more progress on my build tonight.


----------



## 5thdisciple

what is your stem length? looks tiny.


----------



## MX304

5thdisciple said:


> what is your stem length? looks tiny.


90mm. That's just on there for mock up. The one I plan to use hasn't been delivered yet.


----------



## MX304

I need some advice. The holes in the frame and the fork are a little undersized for the brake mounting bolts and blind nuts. Is there any special requirements for enlarging them to avoid damaging the carbon, or should I just ream it out carefully with a drill bit?


----------



## ColoRoadie

Mine was as well. I chose to grind on the bolt head rather than the frame. Tiny bit of dremel work and it fit.


----------



## MX304

ColoRoadie said:


> Mine was as well. I chose to grind on the bolt head rather than the frame. Tiny bit of dremel work and it fit.


That would work for the nut insert, but in my case, the bolt doesn't go through the hole either.


----------



## paterberg

PBrooks said:


> Seat mast toppers for all but the fm238 which is 34.9 and can be sourced many different ways, is 37mm. Now with 37mm, fairwheelsbike is a good source but so is starbike, either way you are looking at 2 the MCFK and Tune cappy. The MCFK is 38.2 and 250 for roughly 80g. The Tune cappy is 38.3 for about 150 and roughly 74g. Both of these require a shim of some sort. I think the shim will be a much safer option than reversing a seatpost and cutting slits in the top of the mast, but that is another option. I am going with the Tune cappy from Starbike but that is only because fairwheels didn't have stock.


I would like to use the Tune cappy on my FM015 but I'm a little concerned that it has only 5mm setback and might not allow me to set my usual position. Have you received your cappy yet or is it on order? What's your frame size and saddle setback?


----------



## Surfr

I think I've convinced myself that a FM015 should form the basis for my budget race bike for the coming season. I'm currently riding a 52cm Jake the Snake cyclocross bike and it fits like a glove, but obviously is a little less aggressive than a race bike would be. I'm looking at a bike to do crits circuit races and TTs with clip-on bars. Not more than a couple of hours in the saddle at a time really. I'm 5' 7" with around a 29.5" inseam and short arms for my size. I was thinking that the 51cm FM015 would size up best on me as I'd prefer a bit more seatpost and stem showing to enable a more aggressive setup and nice and low front end for aero on the tri bars. Also ISP or non-ISP? I can't make my mind up. Why choose one over the other?


----------



## PBrooks

paterberg said:


> I would like to use the Tune cappy on my FM015 but I'm a little concerned that it has only 5mm setback and might not allow me to set my usual position. Have you received your cappy yet or is it on order? What's your frame size and saddle setback?


It hasn't made it's way to Taiwan yet, I think it has made it's way to US but now over here yet. I did look into tenontentw as they appear to produce the woodman seat mast but I think it will be cost prohibitive to have 37mm made. They do state that they do custom but probably for mass


Will let ya'll know when the Tune cappy arrives and on.


----------



## ultraman6970

skygodmatt said:


> Don't forget the new 757.
> 
> Gotobike.com has it for 2011. It looks like a Cervelo R3 clone with the thin seat stays and square downtube. Looks pretty comfy and stiff to me.
> They sent me a price list. $500 frame and fork.



Tubes aren't squared, for some reason they look squared in the pictures. If you ask more pictures to the chick you will noticed. We talked about this frame also about 2 months ago.


----------



## Andr3w

Hi everyone,

IBeen reading through the 4 threads over the past few weeks and have been considering building a bike since I am on a budget and this may be a better bang for the buck. I have been looking at tri bikes, but most of the frames they offer are too big for me. I came across one by dengfu that is my size, but am not sure if it is a tri bike. It is the FM020 under the TT/TR section 

http://dengfubikes.com/product.asp?id=16&classid=22

according to the specs, it says the seat tube angle is 75.5*. Is this a tri bike or an aero road bike

Thanks,
Andrew


----------



## Vee

Andr3w said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> IBeen reading through the 4 threads over the past few weeks and have been considering building a bike since I am on a budget and this may be a better bang for the buck. I have been looking at tri bikes, but most of the frames they offer are too big for me. I came across one by dengfu that is my size, but am not sure if it is a tri bike. It is the FM020 under the TT/TR section
> 
> http://dengfubikes.com/product.asp?id=16&classid=22
> 
> according to the specs, it says the seat tube angle is 75.5*. Is this a tri bike or an aero road bike
> 
> Thanks,
> Andrew


Tri/TT frame. Headtube is tiny plus that seat tube angle is a bit on the high side.


----------



## Guymk

I got in a short ride today on my just finished Fm015 55cm with BB30. It feels great, its nice and stiff and the ride is very smooth. I am going to do a longer ride tomorrow and will give a more detailed ride report then.

With the value-oriented build I was going for (only really splurge item was sram force bb30 crank) the weight came out to be 7.4kg, ~16.4 pounds, which I am really happy with, considering my old bike was ~18.5 pounds. More details on the build and pictures tomorrow.

I also thought it was cool that the first ride on my new bike was my last ride of the year haha.


----------



## Andr3w

Vee said:


> Tri/TT frame. Headtube is tiny plus that seat tube angle is a bit on the high side.



Thanks


----------



## beij

PBrooks said:


> Seat mast toppers for all but the fm238 which is 34.9 and can be sourced many different ways, is 37mm. Now with 37mm, fairwheelsbike is a good source but so is starbike, either way you are looking at 2 the MCFK and Tune cappy. The MCFK is 38.2 and 250 for roughly 80g. The Tune cappy is 38.3 for about 150 and roughly 74g. Both of these require a shim of some sort. I think the shim will be a much safer option than reversing a seatpost and cutting slits in the top of the mast, but that is another option. I am going with the Tune cappy from Starbike but that is only because fairwheels didn't have stock.[/QU
> 
> Not sure if you have already replied to me, apologies if you have but with FM 238, will the Tune 34.9mm fit?
> Cheers Brett


----------



## paterberg

PBrooks said:


> It hasn't made it's way to Taiwan yet, I think it has made it's way to US but now over here yet. I did look into tenontentw as they appear to produce the woodman seat mast but I think it will be cost prohibitive to have 37mm made. They do state that they do custom but probably for mass
> 
> 
> Will let ya'll know when the Tune cappy arrives and on.


Thanks for that, I'll look forward to your comments.


----------



## Guymk

Ok So I finally was able to get some nice pictures of my 55cm Fm015. I tried to get some 
interesting shots that showed the tube shapes in greater detail. See below. 

The Build and overall Quality:
The build went smooth, there was only 1 minor issue. The bottom headset bearing wouldn't slip in so I had to sand the inside to get it to fit in all the way, not a big problem, just a little annoying. I believe this is not a new problem, other people have also had issues getting the bearings to fit. The quality of the headset itself is top notch, no problems there. Everything else went flawless during the build. The rear brake housing was perfect, no issues there either.

The Quality of the frame itself is quite good. I wouldn't say that its perfect, I was able to find a few flaws in the finish, there are a couple spots where the weave isn't perfect, but nothing major. You would have to be looking for flaws to find them. Due to the wave on my frame being Uni Direction I think that any blemishes in the frame are easier to spot/easier to make. With a 3k weave blemishes would probably be lessened and even harder to notice. The only other quality issue is that there is a small chip in the finish on the non-drive side chain stay, which was there when I received the frame. I don't think that it happened during shipment as the frame was very well packed. More than likely I think someone wasn't being careful at the factory and chipped it and then didn't notice the chip or didn't see it as a large enough issue to not ship the frame. All carbon frames get chips with use though so It doesn't bother me a whole lot. 

The weight came out at 16.5 pounds, 7.4kg. Not bad especially since I don't have any weight weenie parts on it except for the Force crank. If anyone wants a full build list I will gladly oblige. 

Alright 'nuff chit chat already.. let's get on with the pics'. 









































































































































I am thinking of getting a white saddle, I think it would finish the black and white look quite nicely. Any thoughts on this?


----------



## Italianrider76

Beautiful.......a great exmple of fine taste.


----------



## Vee

Guymk said:


> Ok So I finally was able to get some nice pictures of my 55cm Fm015. I tried to get some
> interesting shots that showed the tube shapes in greater detail. See below.
> 
> The Build and overall Quality:
> The build went smooth, there was only 1 minor issue. The bottom headset bearing wouldn't slip in so I had to sand the inside to get it to fit in all the way, not a big problem, just a little annoying. I believe this is not a new problem, other people have also had issues getting the bearings to fit. The quality of the headset itself is top notch, no problems there. Everything else went flawless during the build. The rear brake housing was perfect, no issues there either.
> 
> The Quality of the frame itself is quite good. I wouldn't say that its perfect, I was able to find a few flaws in the finish, there are a couple spots where the weave isn't perfect, but nothing major. You would have to be looking for flaws to find them. Due to the wave on my frame being Uni Direction I think that any blemishes in the frame are easier to spot/easier to make. With a 3k weave blemishes would probably be lessened and even harder to notice. The only other quality issue is that there is a small chip in the finish on the non-drive side chain stay, which was there when I received the frame. I don't think that it happened during shipment as the frame was very well packed. More than likely I think someone wasn't being careful at the factory and chipped it and then didn't notice the chip or didn't see it as a large enough issue to not ship the frame. All carbon frames get chips with use though so It doesn't bother me a whole lot.
> 
> The weight came out at 16.5 pounds, 7.4kg. Not bad especially since I don't have any weight weenie parts on it except for the Force crank. If anyone wants a full build list I will gladly oblige.
> 
> Alright 'nuff chit chat already.. let's get on with the pics'.
> 
> [pictures removed for quoting]
> 
> I am thinking of getting a white saddle, I think it would finish the black and white look quite nicely. Any thoughts on this?


Thanks for the pictures. I would love a build list. 

In an effort to thank you for your detailed post, here is a photoshop of what a saddle, similar or identical to your current, would look like in white. Hopefully this helps you with your saddle decision.


----------



## Guymk

Thanks! Alright here is the build list. I hope I didn't forget anything

Fm015 UD finish BB30 and Fk007 fork
Neuvation r28 aero4's with the stickers removed
Hongfu titanium skewers that weigh in at 56g for the pair
3T Pro 90mm stem
3T Ergosum compact bars, 40cm
Elite Custom Race white/black bottle cages
Kore Elite 31.6mm I-Beam seatpost
Kore I-beam saddle (shape is similiar to fizik arione)
Salsa 35mm seatpost clamp
Jagwire Racer cables
Look Keo sprint pedals
Sram Rival FD, RD, brakes, and shifters
Sram Force BB30 172.5mm compact crank
PG1070 11-25 cassette (more than likely I am going to switch to an 11-23 or a straight block as it's very flat here, got the compact because it was a good deal)
kmc 10 speed chain(I don't remember the exact model #)
Sram bar tape w/ white hoods

I think that covers it. Tires are mismatched because I got a good deal on some michelin pr3s and my rear vittoria rubino isn't worn out yet. 
Also I want to add the only new parts i purchased are the cranks, the seatpost, the cages, the cables, and the hoods+tape. everything else I switched over from my old bike.


----------



## Surfr

Thanks for the photos. You've just convinced me that I want a UD finish on my FM015 I'm about to order 

I'll be building mine with white bar tape on black bars with a white stem and saddle. The rest will be silver Ultegra 6600 I've sourced  Can't wait


----------



## Guymk

I used to use white bar tape on my old bike but I got sick of cleaning it. The white hoods clean up really easily. It was raining almost the entire time I was out on the new bike today and the hoods got really dirty but cleaned right up. I would look into going with white hoods and black tape just for the sake of practicality.


----------



## skygodmatt

Nice build. 

How comfortable is the rear end? I will have my FM028 soon. 
How heavy are those wheels? Did you need to use the provided shims under the headset cap?

The rule of thumb is to have your saddle color match your bar tape. But, with your white hoods I think it balances well and looks great. Plus, the black tape is easier to keep nice.


----------



## Guymk

It seems pretty comfortable to me, I haven't ridden a lot of different bikes so i can't really say. The wheels are ~1620 grams, they are training wheels though. Eventually I will probably get some nice light wheels so i can get it under 16 lbs. No i did not need to use the provided shims, the headset went together fine without them and I didn't see any issues with the spacing at all.


----------



## PBrooks

beij said:


> PBrooks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seat mast toppers for all but the fm238 which is 34.9 and can be sourced many different ways, is 37mm. Now with 37mm, fairwheelsbike is a good source but so is starbike, either way you are looking at 2 the MCFK and Tune cappy. The MCFK is 38.2 and 250 for roughly 80g. The Tune cappy is 38.3 for about 150 and roughly 74g. Both of these require a shim of some sort. I think the shim will be a much safer option than reversing a seatpost and cutting slits in the top of the mast, but that is another option. I am going with the Tune cappy from Starbike but that is only because fairwheels didn't have stock.[/QU
> 
> Not sure if you have already replied to me, apologies if you have but with FM 238, will the Tune 34.9mm fit?
> Cheers Brett
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah the FM238 has a 34.9 isp so it should be no problem getting one to fit that. The problem for us that have the fm015 or fm028 is that it has a isp of 37mm. We could use the one supplied but at 168g it kind of defeats the purpose of integrating so alternatives are sought. Tune cappy just happens to be the lightest I have found except custom ones that would come out of europe. All will work out but I just hate waiting :mad2:
> hope this helps
> PBrooks
Click to expand...


----------



## beij

PBrooks said:


> beij said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah the FM238 has a 34.9 isp so it should be no problem getting one to fit that. The problem for us that have the fm015 or fm028 is that it has a isp of 37mm. We could use the one supplied but at 168g it kind of defeats the purpose of integrating so alternatives are sought. Tune cappy just happens to be the lightest I have found except custom ones that would come out of europe. All will work out but I just hate waiting :mad2:
> hope this helps
> PBrooks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for that, I'll order the 34.9mm Tune in the next few weeks.
> Cheers:thumbsup:
Click to expand...


----------



## cokex

my bike from greatkeenbike 

RFM106 ..


----------



## skygodmatt

Hey Cokex,

How much did you pay total for all that? 

You know, A guy should buy about 100 of those lightweight ISP toppers in a 37mm diameter with and without a setback and sell them here on RBR. 
You can make serious cash for your time.


----------



## cokex

skygodmatt said:


> Hey Cokex,
> 
> How much did you pay total for all that?
> 
> You know, A guy should buy about 100 of those lightweight ISP toppers in a 37mm diameter with and without a setback and sell them here on RBR.
> You can make serious cash for your time.



$702 shipped ..

RFM106 XL 58CM Paint Mendiz - $400
RHB004 440*110 NESS - $140
headset - $20
SEATPOST FSA 27.2. - $30
Delivery - $85
paypal - $27


----------



## skygodmatt

My lord that's cheap. 

Your exact frameset is at a local shop here built up. It has some Italian name on it and they have it....get this...on SALE for $6000. I swear it's the same frame. Perhaps I should take a photo but I think that might really piss off someone. 
FSA post for $20? Sheesh. 

It makes me think it's just a matter of time before all this Chinese stuff is banned from coming in.


----------



## cokex

skygodmatt said:


> My lord that's cheap.
> 
> Your exact frameset is at a local shop here built up. It has some Italian name on it and they have it....get this...on SALE for $6000. I swear it's the same frame. Perhaps I should take a photo but I think that might really piss off someone.
> FSA post for $20? Sheesh.
> 
> It makes me think it's just a matter of time before all this Chinese stuff is banned from coming in.


yah.. these chinese deals are great .. I figure after I get my wheelset and force group on it'll be a little under 2k.. 

not bad for a first road bike..


----------



## skygodmatt

There's a new cat in the neighborhood: 

Anyone have the new light* FM-830SL*?
850 grams. 

Sunday Trade has it here.
http://shangding.en.alibaba.com/pro..._Fiber_Road_Bicycle_frame_set_FM_R830SL_.html
This forum seems to say they are reliable.


----------



## asherstash1

that frame looks mingin imho.... the sl not the mendiz..


----------



## solarFlash

The FM-830SL is the planetx nano I think.


----------



## tuanmynsr

*re: RFM106*

Cokex, 
Was wondering how heavy is the RFM106. 
Was thinking about ordering that frameset too. 




cokex said:


> my bike from greatkeenbike
> 
> RFM106 ..


----------



## beston

Others have commented in previous threads that the FM-830SL is the same as the Planet X Nanolight.

Here's a previous post which shows that pic taken at Planet x that shows the Frame model on one of their new Nanolights.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=3003471&postcount=200

The FM-830SL would definitely be my next choice. I just want to make sure that the seller is legit.


----------



## Schnor

@ Guymk

Nice bike you have! Was this frame in stock or did you order it in UD with BB30? If you had to order how long did it take for this frame? Hongfu says 70 days. But there are also others (LT Bike, Archteks) who say 20 / 28 days. 

20 or 70 days is offcourse a big difference. I don't who to believe. I think those sellers get their bikes from the same factory so normally the time to order will be the same for each seller.


----------



## cokex

tuanmynsr said:


> Cokex,
> Was wondering how heavy is the RFM106.
> Was thinking about ordering that frameset too.


Not sure about the weight, I don't really have anything to weigh the frame. I'll see what I can do, but its very light.. 

The box was so light I thought I was getting scammed.. heh

It's kinda flashy for the paint scheme.. If I ordered again, I would order it straight carbon.

-b


----------



## Guymk

Schnor said:


> @ Guymk
> 
> Nice bike you have! Was this frame in stock or did you order it in UD with BB30? If you had to order how long did it take for this frame? Hongfu says 70 days. But there are also others (LT Bike, Archteks) who say 20 / 28 days.
> 
> 20 or 70 days is offcourse a big difference. I don't who to believe. I think those sellers get their bikes from the same factory so normally the time to order will be the same for each seller.


Thank you. I actually wasn't planning on getting BB30 I just wanted a UD finish and when I inquired to Jenny at Hongfu about a 55cm UD fm015 she said they had 1 UD 55cm BB30 in stock. I still hadn't ordered a new crank so I went with the BB30 frame figuring I could save some weight. I guess i just got lucky not having to wait for one . It did take 3 weeks for the frame to arrive after I paid, though I think that was mostly due to the busyness of the christmas season.


----------



## robdamanii

Guymk said:


> I am thinking of getting a white saddle, I think it would finish the black and white look quite nicely. Any thoughts on this?


Get the white saddle. So much more pro.


----------



## Guymk

robdamanii said:


> Get the white saddle. So much more pro.


I have been looking around and I think the new Fizik Arione that is black with the white center stripe would look even better than white. I really need a new HRM for training though so aesthetic items will have to wait. Plus I would need a new seat post too.


----------



## Tri4fun73

cokex said:


> Not sure about the weight, I don't really have anything to weigh the frame. I'll see what I can do, but its very light..
> 
> The box was so light I thought I was getting scammed.. heh
> 
> It's kinda flashy for the paint scheme.. If I ordered again, I would order it straight carbon.
> 
> -b


Do you have a POC for that frame. That this is sweet and I think I'm over the Chinarello for now. That 106 might be my next bike!!


----------



## cokex

Tri4fun73 said:


> Do you have a POC for that frame. That this is sweet and I think I'm over the Chinarello for now. That 106 might be my next bike!!


POC ? point of contact ?

www.greatkeenbike.com
you can find ms.hu's email addy under 'contact'..


----------



## Andr3w

cokex said:


> POC ? point of contact ?
> 
> www.greatkeenbike.com
> you can find ms.hu's email addy under 'contact'..



How long did it take you to get your frame with the paint? How is the paint quality up close?


----------



## cokex

Andr3w said:


> How long did it take you to get your frame with the paint? How is the paint quality up close?


Took about a month to get here.. 

The paint is pretty much like any other painted bike out there.. a few flaws in the clear coat but other than that it's pretty damn nice.

here is a little more hi res pic.. https://www.instajoint.com/bike/bike2.jpg


----------



## Andr3w

Nice. Considering getting that frame. Purchase go smoothly with the company?


----------



## cokex

Andr3w said:


> Nice. Considering getting that frame. Purchase go smoothly with the company?



yup.. nothing to worry about..


----------



## Jetmugg

I just had to post and share my excitement....

The wife's FM-022 Cyclocross (Hongfu) frame/fork/headset/stem/bars/seatpost package is now on US soil. Hopefully it will clear customs quickly and be in my hands by the end of the week.

SteveM.


----------



## rruff

beston said:


> Others have commented in previous threads that the FM-830SL is the same as the Planet X Nanolight.


And it's quite a bit heavier than the 850g they advertise in China.


----------



## Surfr

Aww no UD FM015s in at DengFFu in 53cm either 

I guess I'll have to go with 3k instead.


----------



## vladvm

Received the decals after 4 weeks.


----------



## Jetmugg

Jetmugg said:


> I just had to post and share my excitement....
> 
> The wife's FM-022 Cyclocross (Hongfu) frame/fork/headset/stem/bars/seatpost package is now on US soil. Hopefully it will clear customs quickly and be in my hands by the end of the week.
> 
> SteveM.



Hooray - released from customs within the last hour.


----------



## paterberg

Jetmugg said:


> Hooray - released from customs within the last hour.


Good for you! Looking forward to some pics, weights and info. Thanks.


----------



## skygodmatt

Speaking of delivery....

My frame is waiting for me at home now in the box....yeah! I'll see it tonight. 
Carbonzone told me he needed 9 days to paint it before shipping. He was certainly faster than that. Check out these times: 

Timing Site Status
　 2010-12-27 18:47:00 Posting 
　 2010-12-27 18:53:00 LCYX Despatch from Sorting Center 
　 2010-12-27 21:58:27 SHENZHEN Arrival at Sorting Center 
　 2010-12-27 21:58:49 SHENZHEN Despatch from Sorting Center 
　 2010-12-29 08:57:00 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA USSFOA Arrival at Sorting Center 
　 2010-12-29 08:58:00 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA USSFOA Handed over to Customs 
　 2010-12-30 17:21:00 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA USSFOA Released from Customs 
　 2011-01-03 06:51:00 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 93449 Arrival at Delivery Office


----------



## drinkdrive

I found this forum and decided to get an FM015 based on the quality ride that people on this forum reported. I chose the 12k weave because I liked the way it looks in the sun on my gf's Fuji. 

The bike came out to 18.5lbs with pedals on the postal scale at my shop...I know it's not super accurate but it's what's available to me. For reference, a co-workers Di2 Orbea Orca came in at 17.5lbs. 

The build is a mix of parts off of my 2005 Specialized Allez Elite and a few pieces I picked up at good prices on ebay. Easton EC70 bars and seatpost, EA70 stem, 105 5600 drivetrain with the FSA Gossamer triple the bike came with, no name brakes, Neuvation R28X wheels (the rear is being warrantied but I weighed with it), price point seat, token seat clamp, Jagwire cables, vittoria rubino pro III, . Maybe I could save some wieght with a crankset and brakeset but this is probably it for this season. It's about 2-2.5lbs lighter than my Allez.

I have had a couple of shakedown runs with some hill repeats and I'm very pleased. Very quiet, smooth ride, very important to me with the chipseal that alot of the longer rides around here run on. Seems to go up hills a little easier and accelerate faster even though im coming from off-season. I know the colors aren't everyone's fave but it's what I was after, looking for some bontrager tape to match the tires better though.

Thanks for the great resource!


----------



## skygodmatt

rruff said:


> And it's quite a bit heavier than the 850g they advertise in China.


I am getting that 830SL soon. 
What is the real weight in a size 58?
I am guessing around 970 grams?


----------



## Guymk

@Drinkdrive, nice bike! You could drop a good bit of weight by replacing that heavy triple crank set. Just get a used Sram Rival double or a used shimano ultegra double. Of course then you would have to get some different levers. I am sure you could find some used 105 or ultegra levers that wouldn't set you back that much either. If you are wanting to drop some weight, definitely start at the crank set.


----------



## FTR

Guymk said:


> @Drinkdrive, nice bike! You could drop a good bit of weight by replacing that heavy triple crank set. Just get a used Sram Rival double or a used shimano ultegra double. Of course then you would have to get some different levers. I am sure you could find some used 105 or ultegra levers that wouldn't set you back that much either. If you are wanting to drop some weight, definitely start at the crank set.


Could he not just keep his shifters he has and adjust out the limit on the front shifter so it will only shift 2 gears?


----------



## drinkdrive

well, i've thought alot about that. right now i've been looking at 5603 105 triples, its pretty much plug and play and its around $100. I've also been looking at planet-x brakes. I might just hold out until next winter and get a 5700 or 6700 groupset minus the brakes...


----------



## drinkdrive

and also, im really needing a mountain bike frame right now what little funds i have are being diverted that way


----------



## Guymk

drinkdrive said:


> well, i've thought alot about that. right now i've been looking at 5603 105 triples, its pretty much plug and play and its around $100. I've also been looking at planet-x brakes. I might just hold out until next winter and get a 5700 or 6700 groupset minus the brakes...


Don't upgrade your triple crank set. That's like going from a generic chocolate bar to a hershey chocolate bar. Instead go for the Milka chocolate bar (aka shimano or sram double crankset, what I mentioned before). Also I don't think it would be worth the money to buy those planet-x brakes as you won't drop much weight and will lose breaking performance. 

@FTR, He might be able do to that, but since the lever is indexed the amount of cable pull per click might not be enough to shift a double since it is a triple and the rings are closer together. Look into this drinkdrive, if it turns out that it could work then I would definitely get the double crankset. 
If not then just save your money, ride the bike, and buy a sram rival group when you can afford it. It's the best performance and weight for the money. That will easily put you into the low 17's as far as weight goes. I have mostly sram rival on mine with the exception of a sram force bb30 crank and I have the same wheels as you( mine are the r28 aero4s, same wheels as the r28x just two years older) and mine is 16.5lbs.


----------



## beston

FTR said:


> Could he not just keep his shifters he has and adjust out the limit on the front shifter so it will only shift 2 gears?



Yes. A triple lever can be used with double cranks by adjusting the inner and outer limits of the front derailleur. No need to buy new shifters!


----------



## zender

drinkdrive said:


> I found this forum and decided to get an FM015 based on the quality ride that people on this forum reported. I chose the 12k weave because I liked the way it looks in the sun on my gf's Fuji.
> 
> The bike came out to 18.5lbs with pedals on the postal scale at my shop...I know it's not super accurate but it's what's available to me. For reference, a co-workers Di2 Orbea Orca came in at 17.5lbs.


Don't fret about the weight. I'm too lazy to, but I (silently) call BS every time someone posts some random build with Ultegra/Force, Bontrager wheelset from an old Madone, standard other bits and coming in at 16lb. Maybe this well help: I recently weighed by FM238 on a calibrated hanging scale *with* Powertap rear wheel, two full oversized water bottles, a Fizik seatpack, and rear LED flasher and it was way over your 18.5lb. Yeah, I guess I could ride w/o pedals and water but wouldn't get too far. :thumbsup:


----------



## drinkdrive

guymk I will look into that rival group. I haven't given sram much consideration just from unfamiliarity but I will check it out, I know it's slick stuff. If I can use a double with my triple shifters I'll probably go ahead and do it, it's been difficult to get a solid answer for that but it seems most people are successful.


----------



## Mackers

All 105 shifters are triples, just read the tech docs on Shimano's website on how to set them up for a double.


----------



## aharrod

I got my FM015, but I screwed the bottom headset bearing up. does anyone know what bearing to us as a replacement, or what headset to purchase?

thanks.

alex


----------



## aharrod

*FM015 Headset*

double post


----------



## skygodmatt

drinkdrive said:


> well, i've thought alot about that. right now i've been looking at 5603 105 triples, its pretty much plug and play and its around $100. I've also been looking at planet-x brakes. I might just hold out until next winter and get a 5700 or 6700 groupset minus the brakes...


If you want really low gears like a triple, I think you should really check out the Sram Apex group. It's a double so it's light --but it has a really low gear --a 34/32. A compact crank ( 34) with a 32 tooth pie on back. A double just can't get lower. You'll climb up a wall. 
Seen those groups for $600 new on Ebay.


----------



## skygodmatt

aharrod said:


> I got my FM015, but I screwed the bottom headset bearing up. does anyone know what bearing to us as a replacement, or what headset to purchase?
> 
> thanks.
> 
> alex


Cane Creek IS3 bottom assembly $26.
Here you go. You want the 1.5".
http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=37224


----------



## vladvm

Just put on the decals. Now awaiting for the components to arrive (DA 7800)
What crank should I get to match the frame?


----------



## cokex

vladvm said:


> Just put on the decals. Now awaiting for the components to arrive (DA 7800)
> What crank should I get to match the frame?


nice..


----------



## athletic91

Got my package from mina, however its missing a handlebar, lets see how she handles it


----------



## athletic91

cokex said:


> my bike from greatkeenbike
> 
> RFM106 ..


Do let us know how to fit a computer to the integraded bar. its dosent have the option of a additional mount unlike the fsa plasma


----------



## suparuki

*My new hottie!*

Ok so this morning I finally, after 4 months, finished my new chinese carbon road bike!!!! I ordered it "buy it now" off ebay on sept 9th from cargogoods99. Communication was great and I received my 50cm carbon frame, fork, headset, seat post ($398.00 shipped!) just shy of a week later. I opted for the 12k weave and for anyone who has wondered. I think the 12k looks like crap in pictures compared to what it looks like in person. Simply stunning.










I decided I was going to go off the grid with this build and not use a single part that had the word shimano, sram, or campagnolo on it and I could not be more thrilled. I went microshift white 10sp for the groupset which I could not be happier with. Some people have complained that the brifters are noisy. They are noisy because of very powerful return springs that really snap the gears into place. I think this is a good thing personally.










For the crankset I went with one of the few white cranks I could find by Aerozine. Its a really neat crank that allows you to change the crank length from 170 or 175 and included the ceramic BB. Plus it was compact which I have wanted to try out. I also splurged a bit and opted to get a K-edge chain catcher to help protect the carbon frame fron my chain.










For the rest of the drivetrain I went with a miche 10sp cassette and a KMC X10SL chain. I dont think I have ever had so many lightweight drilled out parts in my life! The chain is just stunning and I got it for cheaper than a 105 and its on par with Dura Ace for weight same goes for the cassette. Another thing I liked about the microshift groupo was the rear D. Those drilled out jockey pulleys are stock and really make things pop!










One last shot of the cockpit. Finished it off with a cateye wireless computer! I used Marco for the decals and cant say enough good things about him. I gave him a very basic design idea and he really pulled it off for me! For anyone out there with a naked carbon frame the stickers just set it off so well. My set pictured here was $25 shipped from marco which is such a small amount to make the bike personal to you. SO why EVA-23?? Well im a G33K at heart and like anime and computers and robots and all that stuff and there is an anime Called evangelion where kids pilot giant robots so I used Eva as my theme and modeled the stickers after the markups on the robots. 23 was my number in my first bike race when I was just 14 so its always been a special number to me. Hence EVA unit 23 was born with R-type equipment! I hope to one day Have another EVA-23 with TT-type equipment but that will have to wait for now. 

All in all I put in just under $1500.00 For this build. I only had one piece to start with which was the handlebar. Everything else is new. I feel I did pretty good with my $1500 since I ended up with a full carbon 10sp road bike that weighs in just shy of 17.5 lbs.

Now if it will just warm up so I can ride it!


----------



## VAMurph

*Use Stealth Evo by Shimano*



athletic91 said:


> Do let us know how to fit a computer to the integraded bar. its dosent have the option of a additional mount unlike the fsa plasma


You could use the Shimano Stealth Evo adapter...Looks as though it would work.

http://www.pro-bikegear.com/publish...t_race/stealth_evo.-productCode-PRHASTCB.html


----------



## kk5551

Which frame is this?



suparuki said:


> Ok so this morning I finally, after 4 months, finished my new chinese carbon road bike!!!! I ordered it "buy it now" off ebay on sept 9th from cargogoods99. Communication was great and I received my 50cm carbon frame, fork, headset, seat post ($398.00 shipped!) just shy of a week later. I opted for the 12k weave and for anyone who has wondered. I think the 12k looks like crap in pictures compared to what it looks like in person. Simply stunning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided I was going to go off the grid with this build and not use a single part that had the word shimano, sram, or campagnolo on it and I could not be more thrilled. I went microshift white 10sp for the groupset which I could not be happier with. Some people have complained that the brifters are noisy. They are noisy because of very powerful return springs that really snap the gears into place. I think this is a good thing personally.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the crankset I went with one of the few white cranks I could find by Aerozine. Its a really neat crank that allows you to change the crank length from 170 or 175 and included the ceramic BB. Plus it was compact which I have wanted to try out. I also splurged a bit and opted to get a K-edge chain catcher to help protect the carbon frame fron my chain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the rest of the drivetrain I went with a miche 10sp cassette and a KMC X10SL chain. I dont think I have ever had so many lightweight drilled out parts in my life! The chain is just stunning and I got it for cheaper than a 105 and its on par with Dura Ace for weight same goes for the cassette. Another thing I liked about the microshift groupo was the rear D. Those drilled out jockey pulleys are stock and really make things pop!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One last shot of the cockpit. Finished it off with a cateye wireless computer! I used Marco for the decals and cant say enough good things about him. I gave him a very basic design idea and he really pulled it off for me! For anyone out there with a naked carbon frame the stickers just set it off so well. My set pictured here was $25 shipped from marco which is such a small amount to make the bike personal to you. SO why EVA-23?? Well im a G33K at heart and like anime and computers and robots and all that stuff and there is an anime Called evangelion where kids pilot giant robots so I used Eva as my theme and modeled the stickers after the markups on the robots. 23 was my number in my first bike race when I was just 14 so its always been a special number to me. Hence EVA unit 23 was born with R-type equipment! I hope to one day Have another EVA-23 with TT-type equipment but that will have to wait for now.
> 
> All in all I put in just under $1500.00 For this build. I only had one piece to start with which was the handlebar. Everything else is new. I feel I did pretty good with my $1500 since I ended up with a full carbon 10sp road bike that weighs in just shy of 17.5 lbs.
> 
> Now if it will just warm up so I can ride it!


----------



## suparuki

*which frame?*

Im not entirely sure. Im thinking it may have been an older mold (year or so off) maybe which is why it was so cheap and why I have not been able to find an exact copy on degnfu or ehongfu. My big problem was finding a 50cm and with talking to dengfu it was going to cost me close to $115 more to get the same stuff from them in a 50 so I went the direct ebay route and the frame is plenty light for me. :thumbsup:


----------



## VAMurph

Didn't realize the Microshift came in white. Where did you pick them up from?

Murph


----------



## Jetmugg

All-righty then...

The Hongfu FM-022 Cyclocross frame, fork, & related items arrived today.

The box arrived in 100% undamaged condition.


















Each item was expertly packed, there was no damage to any of the items...










I ordered the ergo style handlebars, carbon/Al stem, carbon seatpost, and bottle cages.










The carbon weave and finish is excellent on all of the parts.


----------



## Jetmugg

The frame itself is the FM-022 Cyclocross model, with matching fork. The frame and fork were priced together at $530. I have not yet received the decals from Marco in Brasil, but they are on their way. The paint is very nice (I haven't found any flaws) a basic design suggested by Hongfu. The assembled bike will have purple highlights. (It's for my wife).





































Since it's a 'Cross setup, I wasn't expecting a super lightweight. The frame weighs in at 1300g, and the fork at 545g. I will weigh the other individual components when I get home later this evening. I am hoping for the entire build to come in under 18 lbs.

SteveM.


----------



## iherald

suparuki said:


> I decided I was going to go off the grid with this build and not use a single part that had the word shimano, sram, or campagnolo on it and I could not be more thrilled. I went microshift white 10sp for the groupset which I could not be happier with. Some people have complained that the brifters are noisy. They are noisy because of very powerful return springs that really snap the gears into place. I think this is a good thing personally.


Where did you get the microshift? How much was it?


----------



## Guymk

@JetMugg 
Looks nice! They definitely did a good job with the paint. I had been planning to get a paint job done for my fm015 but I decided to save some money an didn't get it.


----------



## cfred84

suparuki said:


> One last shot of the cockpit. Finished it off with a cateye wireless computer! I used Marco for the decals and cant say enough good things about him. I gave him a very basic design idea and he really pulled it off for me! For anyone out there with a naked carbon frame the stickers just set it off so well. My set pictured here was $25 shipped from marco which is such a small amount to make the bike personal to you. SO why EVA-23??
> 
> All in all I put in just under $1500.00 For this build. I only had one piece to start with which was the handlebar. Everything else is new. I feel I did pretty good with my $150 since I ended up with a full carbon 10sp road bike that weighs in just shy of 17.5 lbs.
> 
> Now if it will just warm up so I can ride it!


$25 shipped.. Dats cheap got mine from him previously for $38!


----------



## skygodmatt

*FM-028 today*

The box was perfect and the frame and fork was heavily padded completely. 
I opened it today and it looks beautiful.

No issues at all. Nothing needs to be faced or sanded. No imperfections other than some very light dust under the matte black paint in a couple of small areas. I suppose they painted it in a dusty place. I also have to add they forgot my extra derailleur hanger. I will send him an email. No big deal.

I put a KCNC seat clamp ( 13 grams) and an Alpha post ( 190 grams ) and an FSA CF-40 headset. I had a new KCNC Expander nut but the steerer tube is too thick to allow it to slide in. 
The headset is perfect with no big gap under the carbon top cap and just enough space to allow tightening and clearance. 

I noticed the Matte Black paint would show every fingerprint if you touched it. So, I took a bottle of Meguires cleaner/wax and rubbed it for 10 minutes. No geenie popped out but it sealed the paint and put a nice light satin finish on it. 
Now it looks perfect and easy to clean.

More photos later.


----------



## skygodmatt

Photos:


----------



## skygodmatt

Second photo post:


----------



## intherain

Looks great and looking forward to seeing it built.
Who did you order your FM028 from?


----------



## intherain

Hi all, I have been reading thesethreads for a while, they are a fantastic resource and I must have spent about 4 days getting through them all!

I am trying to decide which is the best company to go with for my new road frame. I really like the FM0015 but a friend who works in the cycle industry and has been out to the far east to source frames has suggested that ADK are a very reputable company. I believe the manufacture some of Pedalforce's frames but I am not 100% sure on this. I have a couple of questions and any help will be gratefully received:

1) Has anyone here ordered from ADK - if so how did it go? Any hitches?

2) Does anyone have any info on either the AKFM08 or AKFM09 frames? The ADK catalogue lists them as exclusive to Italy.

I have had a good quote for the FM08 and so am swayed toward ordering that.

Thanks for your help!


----------



## skygodmatt

Ebay Seller: Carbonzone

58cm FM028 BB30 design.

I did make sure to let him know that I did NOT want to see the carbon weave. I asked him to put just enough matte paint to hide the 3k weave but I didn't want extra to keep it as light as possible. There is no clear on top. That's why I buffed it just a little bit. 
I figured I wanted to get my own headset and clamp. Very happy with the FSA. Fits like a glove.
He is really fast with email. 

I will weight it tomorrow.


----------



## Guymk

intherain said:


> Hi all, I have been reading thesethreads for a while, they are a fantastic resource and I must have spent about 4 days getting through them all!
> 
> I am trying to decide which is the best company to go with for my new road frame. I really like the FM0015 but a friend who works in the cycle industry and has been out to the far east to source frames has suggested that ADK are a very reputable company. I believe the manufacture some of Pedalforce's frames but I am not 100% sure on this. I have a couple of questions and any help will be gratefully received:
> 
> 1) Has anyone here ordered from ADK - if so how did it go? Any hitches?
> 
> 2) Does anyone have any info on either the AKFM08 or AKFM09 frames? The ADK catalogue lists them as exclusive to Italy.
> 
> I have had a good quote for the FM08 and so am swayed toward ordering that.
> 
> Thanks for your help!


I don't think that anyone has ordered from ADK. I don't know if you would be able to, they probably don't want to bother with single frame orders. I would email them and ask though.


----------



## intherain

Guymk said:


> I don't think that anyone has ordered from ADK. I don't know if you would be able to, they probably don't want to bother with single frame orders. I would email them and ask though.


Sorry, my OP was not so clear. The quote for an FM008 is from ADK. They will supply me with a single unit but refer tp it as 'ex-works' which they tell me means I have to pay shipping. (I expected to pay for this anyway!)


----------



## shimagnolo

my updated build..


----------



## skygodmatt

Shimangolo---that build looks amazing!

Here is a close up of my FM028 BB30:


----------



## skygodmatt

*Question on cable routing*

What's the best way to fish the rear brake cable through the frame? 
My frame doesn't have a sleeve. 
I have a feeling it's going to be a PITA.


----------



## stevesbike

depends on the size of the opening - if it's large enough a straightened out coat hanger works fine. I've done his a bunch of times with aero frames without sleeves. Feed it through the rear hole toward the front. You can also use a zip tie in the front hole to (making a loop out of it) and feed the hanger through it, then guide it out the front hole. Once out, tape the cable to it and remove the coat hanger (make sure any parts etc are in place before doing so). A flashlight is sometimes helpful to look inside the frame...


----------



## Crawf

skygodmatt said:


> What's the best way to fish the rear brake cable through the frame?
> My frame doesn't have a sleeve.
> I have a feeling it's going to be a PITA.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f8JijECXzc


----------



## cxl98904

suparuki love the build i to went w/ microshift opted for cf look, yeah i drank the kool aid. have not received it yet cannot wait to try.
VAMurph i found microshift on ebay for 349 +25 shipping for their arsis group it includes shift/brake levers, fd, and rd


----------



## velomateo

I haven't added to this thread much since I built up my last Hongfu. My son, who is a collegiate racer, was in need of a new ride for next season - so I ordered him the same FM015 in 3K matte finish. He was able to get a SRAM Red group at a discount through his team and I also kicked in some new SRAM wheels, since his Mavic Kyseriums had about a bazillion miles on them. 
I ordered the frame from Jenny in September and she gave me a mid November delivery date. November came and went with no frame. I emailed Jenny and she explained they were very busy and the frame would be shipped on Dec 12...again the delivery date came and went without a frame. Another email from Jenny and she apologized and said the 17th. I received my tracking number on the 20th - the day it actually shipped and the frame arrived about week later. 
I was very happy with the condition of the frame and they didn't forget to also send along the headset. I do feel that the wait time on this purchase was excessive. I understand that they are supplying frames to buyers who are making large orders, but to have to wait that long and have my delivery date pushed back several times is very frustrating - especially when I paid them directly after placing the order. I don't know if I will buy from them again, unless they can deliver immediately. 
In the end, my son is very happy with his new bike and I'm excited to see him race in the spring. The build is very similar to my "Sparta" (he has labeled his "Sparta II") 3K matte finish, 55 cm frame, SRAM Red w/ SRAM wheels.
<a href="https://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/matte%20black/?action=view&current=IMG_0344.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/matte%20black/IMG_0344.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="https://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/matte%20black/?action=view&current=IMG_0347.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/velomateo/matte%20black/IMG_0347.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


----------



## cokex

athletic91 said:


> Do let us know how to fit a computer to the integraded bar. its dosent have the option of a additional mount unlike the fsa plasma


what do you mean ? I looked at the fsa plasma and I don't see a mount.. I figure i just wrap and mount..


----------



## athletic91

You can attach this to the fsa plasma but not to the chinese integrated bars

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=47612


----------



## cokex

athletic91 said:


> You can attach this to the fsa plasma but not to the chinese integrated bars
> 
> http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=47612


Interesting .. you know I didn't really think about this till now, but I'll post up whatever I do.

-b


----------



## Guymk

@Velomatoe 
Simply beautiful, the white walls are a nice touch.


----------



## cfred84

velomateo said:


> I haven't added to this thread much since I built up my last Hongfu. My son, who is a collegiate racer, was in need of a new ride for next season - so I ordered him the same FM015 in 3K matte finish. He was able to get a SRAM Red group at a discount through his team and I also kicked in some new SRAM wheels, since his Mavic Kyseriums had about a bazillion miles on them.
> I ordered the frame from Jenny in September and she gave me a mid November delivery date. November came and went with no frame. I emailed Jenny and she explained they were very busy and the frame would be shipped on Dec 12...again the delivery date came and went without a frame. Another email from Jenny and she apologized and said the 17th. I received my tracking number on the 20th - the day it actually shipped and the frame arrived about week later.
> I was very happy with the condition of the frame and they didn't forget to also send along the headset. I do feel that the wait time on this purchase was excessive. I understand that they are supplying frames to buyers who are making large orders, but to have to wait that long and have my delivery date pushed back several times is very frustrating - especially when I paid them directly after placing the order. I don't know if I will buy from them again, unless they can deliver immediately.
> In the end, my son is very happy with his new bike and I'm excited to see him race in the spring. The build is very similar to my "Sparta" (he has labeled his "Sparta II") 3K matte finish, 55 cm frame, SRAM Red w/ SRAM wheels.


SWEET! nxt time better double comfirm with them the lead time
Then again we're still at their mercy! At least e bike came good. Nice!!


----------



## DvMxDv

Hello all,

I've spent the last two weeks reading the 4 threads on these Chinese frames and signed up to join the club. (I know, 2 weeks, long time. Been busy at work...)

I would like some guidance in determining proper fit for one of these frames. Specifically I'm interested in the TT01 sold by carbonzone on ebay or under the name FM018-NON-ISP at dengfu. They look identical to me.

I'm 188cm total height with a 86.36cm inseam. Based on that I was told some time ago by the kid at the LBS that I should get "at least" a 58cm frame for a tt bike or the same in a road bike. I found a good deal on a 61cm Cervelo Dual and bought it. It is huge. I feel like I'm driving a school bus...

I've since educated my self a little bit more on bike fit and my Lemond profile looks like this:
Center-to-center seat tube (inseam X 0.65) = 56.134
Center-to-top seat tube (inseam x 0.67) = 57.8612
BB-to-Saddle height (inseam x 0.883) = 76.25588
Total effective reach (torso + arm)/2 + 4 = 70.04

Is the 56cm TT01/FM018 tri frame appropriate for my size? 

I plan on stripping the Ultegra group off the Dual and also running the Vision Integrated aero bar that's on the Dual.

Thanks in advance for any knowledge you'd like to share and I apologize for the length of this post.

Dave


----------



## nickl75

suparuki said:


> I decided I was going to go off the grid with this build and not use a single part that had the word shimano, sram, or campagnolo on it and I could not be more thrilled. I went microshift white 10sp for the groupset which I could not be happier with. Some people have complained that the brifters are noisy. They are noisy because of very powerful return springs that really snap the gears into place. I think this is a good thing personally.


How smooth is the microshift shifting under load? Is it comparable to the bigger manufacturers?


----------



## skygodmatt

stevesbike said:


> depends on the size of the opening - if it's large enough a straightened out coat hanger works fine. I've done his a bunch of times with aero frames without sleeves. Feed it through the rear hole toward the front. You can also use a zip tie in the front hole to (making a loop out of it) and feed the hanger through it, then guide it out the front hole. Once out, tape the cable to it and remove the coat hanger (make sure any parts etc are in place before doing so). A flashlight is sometimes helpful to look inside the frame...


Thanks. 

I am a little upset over this Chinese Frame. 
The lower bearing wouldn't seat. I noticed there was epoxy that dripped into the cup. I had the shop grind it away. Cost a few bucks to get fixed. Next Carbonzone told me that a spare derailleur hanger was included. It was not. I've check thoroughly. So, after 3 emails, it looks as though I may not get the spare hanger he promised at the time of sale. 
Now I can't understand his emails. They don't translate properly. 
It's really starting to annoy me. Customer service is not high in the Chinese business model. I won't leave bad feedback with Ebay yet. 

I'm starting to think I should have purchased a closeout frameset on American soil. 
I'll let you know how it resolves. 
Here's a photo:


----------



## ColoRoadie

skygodmatt said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I am a little upset over this Chinese Frame.
> The lower bearing wouldn't seat. I noticed there was epoxy that dripped into the cup. I had the shop grind it away. Cost a few bucks to get fixed. Next Carbonzone told me that a spare derailleur hanger was included. It was not. I've check thoroughly. So, after 3 emails, it looks as though I may not get the spare hanger he promised at the time of sale.
> Now I can't understand his emails. They don't translate properly.
> It's really starting to annoy me. Customer service is not high in the Chinese business model. I won't leave bad feedback with Ebay yet.
> 
> I'm starting to think I should have purchased a closeout frameset on American soil.
> I'll let you know how it resolves.
> Here's a photo:


Living in Colorado, I have the good fortune of having many high end shops in which I can drool over high end frames. A bit of epoxy in a carbon frame on the races is far from uncommon on frames costing 10 times what you paid or more. Most frames require some tweaking by a mechanic during assembly. 

One lesson I learned building my dengfu bike is just because I can adjust a derailleur doesn't mean I'm a bike mechanic. And not being a bike mechanic means I will and did have a learning curve to conquer if I'm to build the bike myself. I climbed that curve and the bike is amazing, but if you really believed you were buying perfection in a carbon frame for a few hundred dollars, then your learning curve was even steeper than mine. As has been said many times in the 4 threads on Chinese frames....if you are paying a mechanic to build it for you....you likely aren't saving much. Would you order a car in parts and pay a dealership to build it? If you did, would you save any money? No, you would not.

This was the first bike I have built and I did it by reading a lot on the Internet and using common sense. With that said, if you have no mechanical ability and/or no tools at all....perhaps building your own bike is not in the cards.


----------



## skygodmatt

I understand what you're saying. 

But the quality control of these frames are very low. 

There are many posts about cable holes drilled in the wrong location, wrong headsets, mis-aligned dropouts, crooked brake bridges, misaligned internal routing cables....
These are obvious issues that anyone can visual see yet they still ship these out as if there are no problems and gladly take your money. Have you seen the inside of these frames? I think we may be getting rejects. 

Also, how do we know that these frames have passed the safety tests?
I am still waiting for the EN test passing papers that these Chinese frame builders advertise. I was promised those as well. I haven't gotten them yet and now my requests are being dodged....after I paid of course.

This makes me wonder about the safety of the frames. In fact, Does anyone here have the frame safety test data?

This is why I think we should buy from a known company here. They are sticking their names on the frames and don't want a lawsuit--so the quality is higher and most likely the safety also. 
The big company names like GIANT, TREK,CERVELO... periodically issue recalls and list them with the CPSC. In 2009 GIANT had a recall on the SL because the forks were at risk. 

Now how are we going to know if there is a recall on these Chinese frames? Do you think they are going to mail you a letter or call you? Ya right. If you break your face who are you going to hold liable? You gonna try to sue an internet company in China?

With all these factors, I think it's best to find a good deal here and pay more. 

As the old saying goes: "you get what you pay for".

I will still post a ride report when it's built. 
But, I think I've learned my lesson with these generic China frames.


----------



## skygodmatt

I just received an email from "carbonzone".

He wants me to pay shipping for the hanger he forgot to include. 
Typical China service no doubt.


----------



## Rob81

the sue for something is, I guess, typically US and A thing, using bikes is a risky sport, no matter where the bike come from, even from bikes made here (Italy). If you are scared to use a bike because of the IFs, then 1) stick to big names but I doubt any of them will refund you for something, especially accidents, better have a good insurance, health system and public hospitals (woops... US and A again)
2) stick to hamburgers and beers on the couch.
It's like the american story of the microwave and the missing instructions where it wasn't written to not put animals inside it, LOL


----------



## vladvm

I think people with complaints usually post frequently to ask for solution or ideas from other members around the world. I initially had problem with the cable guide not lining up with the cable hole at bottom bracket, but after that is fixed, I have not posted any complaints since then. Now I am quite happy with my chinarello. 

And because this is a forum, posted complaints are permanently recorded for future readers to see. Any praise are seldom posted on the internet (i'd rather ride than post) and therefore not recorded for other people to read. 

For the record. My chinarello is amazing!


----------



## Guymk

You cannot expect Grade A service when you are paying $400 for a carbon frameset. And for the most part, any issues that people have had are minor. They are issues that one would be upset about if one had payed $2000+ for a frame set but for $400 I really don't think it merits complaint. I will also say that my fm015 is awesome!

Heck if these guys will race the fm015 (boyd b101) its definitely good enough for me
http://boydbikes.blogspot.com/2010/04/quick-update-from-rock-hill.html


----------



## rruff

skygodmatt said:


> But the quality control of these frames are very low.


Maybe. I needed a frameset in a hurry, and Dengfu told me they had what I wanted (FM028, 54, 3k, non-integrated, BSA) so I sent my money and it arrived a few days later. Except:

a) They sent a white fork with a misaligned red "B" on it. Initially they suggested that I refinish it. When I refused to do that they eventually paid to ship it back and sent me a new one. This took an extra couple weeks... so much for needing it in a hurry.

b) Crown race was way too tight... took a bit of dremel grinding to fix that. Needed a little grinding on the rear dropouts too, but that was minor.

c) There are some cloudy spots under the clear coat. I strategically placed stickers to make them less noticeable. Some minor flaws in the outer weave as well. Also some nicks... box was a smashed mass of cardboard, so hard to tell if there was any structural damage.

But... I've had it ~ 5 months now and I love how it looks and rides... so I'm happy anyway. If it holds up for a few years I certainly won't have any regrets.


----------



## tdawg183

I've got a somewhat random question. The FM028, what is this frame a knockoff of? It has some lines similar to one of the Giant bikes but not exactly. I've almost completed my build and need a template to go by for any stickers I place.

Any ideas?


----------



## tdawg183

dbl post


----------



## Jetmugg

After reading through the previous threads, I purchased a FM-022 frame, fork, seatpost, handlebars, stem, and bottle cages from Hongfu. Jenny always responded quickly to emails, and if I stayed up late enough at night, I could essentially have an email conversation with her.

This was not an in-stock frame, and I was requesting custom paint as well. I was initially told 30-35 days until completion, which is about what it eventually took. I could have saved approximately 2 weeks if I had not been requesting custom paint. 

The only issues with the entire ordering/receipt of the frame and parts were as follows:

1. Headset - I initially said that I wanted a headset, and described that fact in conversations. However, they didn't invoice me for a headset and didn't send one. My fault, I should have checked the original invoice more closely.

2. Late in the process, I asked for stem spacers. I paid for them, but they weren't included with the shipment. No big deal, Jenny refunded my money for these spacers and I am sourcing them locally. I told her that the shipping costs would likely be prohibitive, and I would be satisfied with a refund for the spacers.

3. The paint took longer than expected to get complete. That being said, the paint job is excellent, and the guys at the local shop here were quite impressed that I could buy a full carbon frame and fork for $530.

If I had it to do again, my only change might have been to forgo the paint, and simply have die-cut decals applied once the frame was in my hands. That would have saved a couple of weeks.

If you are looking for frame safety test data (what is that, anyway), very high levels of hand-holding customer service in English, or some kind of engineering certification, look elsewhere.

If you are looking for a great price on carbon fiber manufactured goods, I would certainly recommend Hongfu as a trusted supplier. Be patient and careful with the communications. Remember, Jenny's English is most likely a helluva lot better than your Chinese.

SteveM.


----------



## skygodmatt

It seems this is the "norm" for build quality with these China Deals.

We wanted a cheap disposable frameset and that's what we got. 

I am not used to all this "substandard mediocrity" work and having people act like it's normal. Just do the job right. I shouldn't have to be a craftsman on a new product. 
"Carbonzone" did offer to fix any defects if I paid shipping both ways. That's $180. Darn near close to the half the frame's value. He knew I would say no. 
Maybe I just expect too much and am being a real jerk huh?


----------



## stonedead

Let me preface this post by saying that I just purchased a frame (FM006) from Hong-fu, after reading this thread and all the others. These Chinese manufacturers all make frames for other companies, who purchase huge lots of frames and then sell them at big markup. I would think that most of these issues are fixed by the company when they QC the frames and get them ready to ship to shops. And in cases where there are major problems, they may toss them out, as I bet they are paying even less then we are and can afford to toss a bad frame. Companies, like Deng-fu and Hong-fu, are just trying to make a little extra money and are taking advantage of our desire to get a deal and cut out the middle man. I wonder if most of the issues I've seen in these threads are the same issues that most of the big companies deal with.


----------



## zender

I've bought 3 frames from China and currently still ride two. Each had slightly different issues when building them, but none that could not be sorted out with some work and the help of these forums. The problems were not sufficiently complex that I would go back and spend 2-3X as much for a branded frame.

I've also built a few other road and mt. bikes over the years and have never had a build that didn't require some tweaking.

If someone wants to deal with a US company, Pedalforce (and other vendors) sells these frames for a bit more money but you can talk to someone in English on a phone. I'm not sure if they'll be perfectly prepped to build, but at least you have a real company


----------



## petepeterson

tdawg183 said:


> I've got a somewhat random question. The FM028, what is this frame a knockoff of? It has some lines similar to one of the Giant bikes but not exactly. I've almost completed my build and need a template to go by for any stickers I place.
> 
> Any ideas?



In my opinion the FM028 it is very similar to the Trek Madone save for the seat mast and the continuation of the seat stays through to the top tube. I think it looks great and am looking at ordering one shortly. 

Got any pics to post up? Any feedback on dealing with Dengfu?


----------



## beston

zender said:


> If someone wants to deal with a US company, Pedalforce (and other vendors) sells these frames for a bit more money but you can talk to someone in English on a phone. I'm not sure if they'll be perfectly prepped to build, but at least you have a real company



I've got the PdealForce RS2 (generic version is FM-202). I'm very happy with the bike and the ride quality, but it is not without some minor flaws. In particular, I've noticed that the cable stops that are riveted to the frame aren't quite aligned /angled properly. The result is that the rear brake and rear derailleur cables rub the metal cable stops. It certainly does affect the "feel" of shifting an braking by adding drag. I do intend on fixing it somehow... just have to figure out how. 

In any case, just paying more money for a rebranded frame does not insure a better / flawless product.


----------



## ColoRoadie

skygodmatt said:


> It seems this is the "norm" for build quality with these China Deals.
> 
> We wanted a cheap disposable frameset and that's what we got.
> 
> I am not used to all this "substandard mediocrity" work and having people act like it's normal. Just do the job right. I shouldn't have to be a craftsman on a new product.
> "Carbonzone" did offer to fix any defects if I paid shipping both ways. That's $180. Darn near close to the half the frame's value. He knew I would say no.
> Maybe I just expect too much and am being a real jerk huh?


A jerk, I dunno if I would go that far..but expecting too much? I would certainly believe so. I think the main problem here is that you've never seen a carbon bike being built before, so you have it in your mind that the American frames come out of the box in perfect readiness for components and smelling like pumpkin pie. They do not. Walking through Excel in Boulder I've seen Cervello's whose front derailleur internal routing was FAR off of where it should be. It's handled with cable liner just like dozens of us in here have done. Speaking to the guys in back they said pretty much no carbon frame shows up without needing a dremel on the races...that is what happens when you insert a metal race into a composite frame...the goo used to hold that race there is sticky and difficult to keep off of things. So it needs cleaned up. That's not a quality control problem...it's a problem with your expectations.

I'm sure your frame has frustrated you...that much is easy enough to read in your posts and in that I feel for you. I've been there. But I realized after speaking to guys who assemble Cervello's, Look's, Ridleys, Litespeeds etc that the "problem" wasn't with the frame...but with my own inexperience. So, I asked questions (alot of them in here), learned new skills and got on with it. The dengfu bike I ride every day to work and back absolutely blows away the Litespeed that hangs on the wall. It is better in every way. 

If you have to take the frame to a mechanic to remove some epoxy from a bearing race...I'm sorry, but building a carbon bike is not for you. There is nothing wrong with that and it's nothing to be embarrassed about but ranting about "substandard mediocrity"....is. The problem here isn't that your frame isn't good enough....it's that your mechanic (you) has never done this before. By all means...buy a high dollar carbon frame...but if you attempt to build it yourself, don't be surprised when it has all of the same issues you are wringing your hands about now.


----------



## shevbot

*ebay frame*

I'm thinking of buying this frame:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Full-Carbon-3...keparts_SR&hash=item4155a73550#ht_1611wt_1139

could ye take a quick look at it please.

is there anything clearly better at the same price point?

Thanks!


edit.

or perhaps this is a better model?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Full-Carbon-R...keparts_SR&hash=item3f064ead2b#ht_1585wt_1139


----------



## petepeterson

http://roguemechanic.typepad.com/roguemechanic/2010/12/whats-the-difference.html


----------



## shevbot

i pulled the trigger on the chinarello, hope its ok!


----------



## skygodmatt

My point is that if I buy a new item-- I don't expect to be fixing it the day I get it. 

If I did that kind of quality, I would never get referrals. Instead I do a quality job and get plenty of work so I can buy bikes. 
Guess people are accepting lower standards these days... I won't.
As long as your happy with what you buy. That's the main thing. 
Anyhow, time to move on and ride. The weather in California is awesome this week.


----------



## thefutureofamerica

I think the point is that when you buy manufacturer direct like this, they're not selling something with the same level of finishing that a bike shop would deliver to you - the type of finishing that you're missing is something that a shop would usually do for you, but you've chosen to cut the bike shop out of the equation. You get lower cost, but you shouldn't expect to have all the work that they would do for you already done. 

It's sorta like going to one of those unfinished furniture places. The build quality might be very good, but you have to do some finishing work. That's the deal. You're welcome to not like that and take your business to a higher-end dealer, but it's really not fair to accuse others of being poor craftsmen because they didn't do a job that you chose not to pay them to do.


----------



## Jetmugg

skygodmatt said:


> My point is that if I buy a new item-- I don't expect to be fixing it the day I get it.
> 
> If I did that kind of quality, I would never get referrals. Instead I do a quality job and get plenty of work so I can buy bikes.
> Guess people are accepting lower standards these days... I won't.
> As long as your happy with what you buy. That's the main thing.
> Anyhow, time to move on and ride. The weather in California is awesome this week.


I think the point is that it's unreasonable to expect the same "standards" when you are paying $400 for a factory-direct carbon frame as compared to spending $2500 for a frame from Trek, Giant, etc. 

Did you expect to get a full $2500 worth of value for $400?


----------



## aharrod

*Not so lucky*



skygodmatt said:


> Cane Creek IS3 bottom assembly $26.
> Here you go. You want the 1.5".
> http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=37224



Thanks for the quick response, but I wanted to let everyone know that that is not the correct lower bearing. The bearing should be a 45 degree 45 degree, not 36 45.


----------



## aharrod

I finished building my FM015 and I have to say it went together pretty well. The only thing I don't like is the internal cable routing for the brake. I couldn't get a ferrule to fit on the cable end so I left it off. Has anyone else been able to use a ferrule? Maybe it requires some sanding like the lower headset bearing?

This arrangement works, but the hole has eaten some of the brake cable housing and the rear brake is mushy.


Also, I usually run a chain keeper on my bikes and unfortunately, one will not fit due to the huge BB. Reminds me of my old trek 5200. Has anyone else found a chain keeper that will work?

Thanks,
alex


----------



## vladvm

aharrod said:


> I finished building my FM015 and I have to say it went together pretty well. The only thing I don't like is the internal cable routing for the brake. I couldn't get a ferrule to fit on the cable end so I left it off. Has anyone else been able to use a ferrule? Maybe it requires some sanding like the lower headset bearing?
> 
> This arrangement works, but the hole has eaten some of the brake cable housing and the rear brake is mushy.
> 
> 
> Also, I usually run a chain keeper on my bikes and unfortunately, one will not fit due to the huge BB. Reminds me of my old trek 5200. Has anyone else found a chain keeper that will work?
> 
> Thanks,
> alex


Re: internal brake cable routing
Use the one whole cable housing from the brake levers to the brake calipers and just route it internally. No problem at all.


----------



## skygodmatt

aharrod said:


> Thanks for the quick response, but I wanted to let everyone know that that is not the correct lower bearing. The bearing should be a 45 degree 45 degree, not 36 45.


That's the right bearing and you are partially correct. 

The top bearing is a 45/45 campy ACB 1 1/8"
The bottom bearing is a 36/45 ACB 1 1/2"

So that bearing will work great. Or, you can get an FSA CF-40 complete for $53 from Universal Cycles. That's what I did for my FM-028. The fit is perfect.

*Edit: *Hey Aharrod-- I bought a 45/45 1.5" and it was wrong and needed a 36/45. But you never know what the Chinese are putting in these things. Perhaps yours is different? Did you check out the 36/45 first?


----------



## aharrod

the 36 45 was not correct in mine, it was a 45 45. I will have to try to find the correct one. I actually got the other one to go back together to get my build done, but it won't last too long without the seal in the proper groove. .


----------



## aharrod

vladvm said:


> Re: internal brake cable routing
> Use the one whole cable housing from the brake levers to the brake calipers and just route it internally. No problem at all.


So the whole housing will fit with no problems? How hard was it to route it? Did you lube it up or anything?

thanks,
alex


----------



## skygodmatt

aharrod said:


> I finished building my FM015 and I have to say it went together pretty well. The only thing I don't like is the internal cable routing for the brake. I couldn't get a ferrule to fit on the cable end so I left it off. Has anyone else been able to use a ferrule? Maybe it requires some sanding like the lower headset bearing?
> 
> This arrangement works, but the hole has eaten some of the brake cable housing and the rear brake is mushy.
> 
> 
> Also, I usually run a chain keeper on my bikes and unfortunately, one will not fit due to the huge BB. Reminds me of my old trek 5200. Has anyone else found a chain keeper that will work?
> 
> Thanks,
> alex


Are you sure you didn't try to fit a derailleur cable ferrule on a brake cable housing? 
The ferrules are different sizes.


----------



## aharrod

skygodmatt said:


> Are you sure you didn't try to fit a derailleur cable ferrule on a brake cable housing?
> The ferrules are different sizes.


LOL, positive. This is the 5th bike I have put together, so I have a pretty good handle on that kind of stuff now. 
The ferrule won't fit into the rear brake cable hole in the frame, not on the brake cable itself.


----------



## skygodmatt

Jetmugg said:


> I think the point is that it's unreasonable to expect the same "standards" when you are paying $400 for a factory-direct carbon frame as compared to spending $2500 for a frame from Trek, Giant, etc.
> 
> Did you expect to get a full $2500 worth of value for $400?


No....but I did not expect to break out a grinder on a new frame. 
They should not try to masquerade these frames as completed. 

Here is a 2011 Giant TCR frameset. It is $1350 retail. It comes in nice paint with a headset w/carbon cap and compressor, seat post, spare hanger, cable guides, adjusters and water bottle bolts, and a seat clamp. 

There is a proven history and design behind this frame. I ride one and it rocks. 
The equivalent Chinese clone would cost $700 delivered with all this. 
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-US/bikes/model/tcr.advanced.frameset/7309/44730/

So with the Giant you are paying $600 more. But--you have a great resale value if you want to sell it. They go for about $850 used. So you lose $500 - and that's if you pay retail which most shops hook you up a bit. 

With the clone you've got NO resale value so you will lose almost all of your purchase $700 if you go to resell it. 

In the long run the Chinese clone isn't that great of a deal after all. 
Plus the Giant rides better and is a safer bet.


----------



## ColoRoadie

My god you are a persistant hining whining baby aren't you? Have you bought that frameset yet? I don't mean as a whole bike, I mean just the frame? If not, you have no idea if it comes with the races precleaned do you?

Resale value. On a Giant? You think a carbon frame from giant that is used is going to sell $600 higher than a used carbon from china even if we take your ridiculous $700 number as true? I personally doubt that very much. Who buys used carbon? In any event, as has been said by MANY now, the problem is you have no idea what you are doing....not the condition of the frame.

The giant rides better? Have you even ridden your new frame yet?


----------



## skygodmatt

ColoRoadie said:


> My god you are a persistant hining whining baby aren't you? Have you bought that frameset yet? I don't mean as a whole bike, I mean just the frame? If not, you have no idea if it comes with the races precleaned do you?
> 
> Resale value. On a Giant? You think a carbon frame from giant that is used is going to sell $600 higher than a used carbon from china even if we take your ridiculous $700 number as true? I personally doubt that very much. Who buys used carbon? In any event, as has been said by MANY now, the problem is you have no idea what you are doing....not the condition of the frame.
> 
> The giant rides better? Have you even ridden your new frame yet?



Yes I have.. I also currently ride a TCR as I've stated in the above post. It is my second one. I sold my 2009 TCR frameset for $900 used on craigslist. I've built both. No mismatched forks,misdrilled holes, bad dropouts, or cable guide problems. Races were clean. The way it's supposed to be.
You only assumed I never built a frame. I just didn't feel like fixing bad workmanship.
MANY have stated issues on these carbon frames. Some issues CAN'T be fixed.

Yes. China Clones with paint and lettering, seat post,headset,adjusters, carbon spacers, seat clamp run about $700 shipped. I was quoted this by two China sellers before I bought my FM028. Perhaps your price is cheaper?


----------



## skygodmatt

tdawg183 said:


> I've got a somewhat random question. The FM028, what is this frame a knockoff of? It has some lines similar to one of the Giant bikes but not exactly. I've almost completed my build and need a template to go by for any stickers I place.
> 
> Any ideas?


The geometry of the FM028 is similar to the Trek Madone H2. The shape is similar too but there's some differences as well.


----------



## Rob81

why resell a frame when for the same price you buy 2 and/or change it every year 
(even Giant carbon doesn't last forever........)


----------



## intherain

Hi all, ADK are quoting me $300 to ship a frame to the UK, I have seen other posters on here pay only around $85 - $100. Can anyone suggest a shipping co I can recommend to ADK so the price is cheaper. Who do dengfu etc use?

Anyone used ADK by the way?

Thanks!


----------



## skygodmatt

Rob81 said:


> why resell a frame when for the same price you buy 2 and/or change it every year
> (even Giant carbon doesn't last forever........)


Warranty. Give it to the shop and you get a new one for free. That's the nice thing about a dealer network. Support.


----------



## Rob81

what's the % of successful warranty cases involving bike frames that the company doesn't list in "not correct" use of the frame?









Does he got a new bike (which is the latest problem...)? I doubt so.
Bikes may crash ...any brand and type, people too, better to have a nice insurance than a costy bike which will not be replaced.
Show us big brand quality tests, 1st you hafta find em, and compare them to the Chinese ones.


----------



## infopete

Rob81 said:


> what's the % of successful warranty cases involving bike frames that the company doesn't list in "not correct" use of the frame?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does he got a new bike (which is the latest problem...)? I doubt so.
> Bikes may crash ...any brand and type, people too, better to have a nice insurance than a costy bike which will not be replaced.
> Show us big brand quality tests, 1st you hafta find em, and compare them to the Chinese ones.


Ooooooops at least that frame will pack easier when you send it back


----------



## qwertyuiop

I just received my RFM101 from great keen.
Problem is, I noticed there is some paint/residue in the BB threads.

Took it to the LBS and the said the threads had been slightly chewed up...I don't know how thats possible as I haven't done anything to it or tried to install the BB.
Has anyone else had this problem? Or am I just lucky?


----------



## BH climber

*Trp 808s*

This is my new fram from:WWW.TOPRIDETEK.COM
But Im a little disapointed with the weigt, 1150g fram+fork 390g. Fram is in size L


----------



## MX304

qwertyuiop said:


> I just received my RFM101 from great keen.
> Problem is, I noticed there is some paint/residue in the BB threads.
> 
> Took it to the LBS and the said the threads had been slightly chewed up...I don't know how thats possible as I haven't done anything to it or tried to install the BB.
> Has anyone else had this problem? Or am I just lucky?


Mine had some residue but was not damaged as far as I can tell. After a good cleaning, my BB threaded right in with no issues.


----------



## vladvm

aharrod said:


> So the whole housing will fit with no problems? How hard was it to route it? Did you lube it up or anything?
> 
> thanks,
> alex


Not hard at all. What i did was this... 
1. pushed the brake cable through the brake lever 
2. then through the front internal cable hole
3. work it through internally out the rear internal cable hole
4. insert the cable through the cable housing
5. pull the cable housing, using the cable as the guide through the internal route

there you go!


----------



## tdawg183

aharrod said:


> I finished building my FM015 and I have to say it went together pretty well. The only thing I don't like is the internal cable routing for the brake. I couldn't get a ferrule to fit on the cable end so I left it off. Has anyone else been able to use a ferrule? Maybe it requires some sanding like the lower headset bearing?
> 
> This arrangement works, but the hole has eaten some of the brake cable housing and the rear brake is mushy.


I have this same problem on my FM028. I could get the ferrule to fit on the cable end but when I pulled the rear brake it stuck. I took the ferrules out and the brake line had already been eating into the side of them. The only way I could get it to work was to end the cables at the inlet and outlet holes not using a ferrule.


----------



## vladvm

tdawg183 said:


> I have this same problem on my FM028. I could get the ferrule to fit on the cable end but when I pulled the rear brake it stuck. I took the ferrules out and the brake line had already been eating into the side of them. The only way I could get it to work was to end the cables at the inlet and outlet holes not using a ferrule.


or just run the entire cable housing if it fits through the internal routing holes.


----------



## tdawg183

vladvm said:


> or just run the entire cable housing if it fits through the internal routing holes.


It didn't. Is there any risk to running a cable to these holes and not using a ferrule?


----------



## robdamanii

ColoRoadie said:


> A jerk, I dunno if I would go that far..but expecting too much? I would certainly believe so. I think the main problem here is that you've never seen a carbon bike being built before, so you have it in your mind that the American frames come out of the box in perfect readiness for components and smelling like pumpkin pie. They do not. Walking through Excel in Boulder I've seen Cervello's whose front derailleur internal routing was FAR off of where it should be. It's handled with cable liner just like dozens of us in here have done. Speaking to the guys in back they said pretty much no carbon frame shows up without needing a dremel on the races...that is what happens when you insert a metal race into a composite frame...the goo used to hold that race there is sticky and difficult to keep off of things. So it needs cleaned up. That's not a quality control problem...it's a problem with your expectations.
> 
> I'm sure your frame has frustrated you...that much is easy enough to read in your posts and in that I feel for you. I've been there. But I realized after speaking to guys who assemble Cervello's, Look's, Ridleys, Litespeeds etc that the "problem" wasn't with the frame...but with my own inexperience. So, I asked questions (alot of them in here), learned new skills and got on with it. The dengfu bike I ride every day to work and back absolutely blows away the Litespeed that hangs on the wall. It is better in every way.
> 
> If you have to take the frame to a mechanic to remove some epoxy from a bearing race...I'm sorry, but building a carbon bike is not for you. There is nothing wrong with that and it's nothing to be embarrassed about but ranting about "substandard mediocrity"....is. The problem here isn't that your frame isn't good enough....it's that your mechanic (you) has never done this before. By all means...buy a high dollar carbon frame...but if you attempt to build it yourself, don't be surprised when it has all of the same issues you are wringing your hands about now.


Not sure who the mechanics you're talking to are, but all the mechanics out my way don't do any of this "standard work" to the frames they assemble. There's no dremeling crap out of the races, maybe just a quick face/chase if necessary.

And for that matter, I've built a few carbon bikes. None of them needed "standard prep work" that you describe. Not my Giant, not my wife's Cannondale, not my Look, not my friends Ibis...none needed any bizarre work done to them. So I'm not really sure how there are "so many problems with all carbon frames."

Face it; the crap coming out of China is just that...crap. You get what you pay for, and it certainly isn't in craftsmanship or quality control. If you disagree, that's perfectly fine with me, but I really don't see where you and everyone else is just dismissing this as "oh well, it's normal."


----------



## drinkdrive

guymk, ftr, and zender: i found a good deal on 6600 ultegra front and rear d, casstte, chain, and shifters without cranks, then picked up ultegra compact cranks and bb to finish it up. its all SL stuff, i think it will look good murdered out. also a k-edge catcher/braze-on adapter. I'm keeping an eye on ultegra brakes but im still looking really hard at the planet x...211g v. 330g. my replacement rear wheel should be here soon too. thanks for the advice!


----------



## drankk

Ordered a 55cm FM015 3k clear coat yesterday. Built with SRAM Force! Pics to come


----------



## ColoRoadie

> Face it; the crap coming out of China is just that...crap. You get what you pay for, and it certainly isn't in craftsmanship or quality control. If you disagree, that's perfectly fine with me, but I really don't see where you and everyone else is just dismissing this as "oh well, it's normal."


I do disagree. And my litespeed is parked while I ride this 'piece of crap' happily every day. 

We see a guy like you in here every once in a while. Rants and raves, throws out all kinds of examples etc but your examples never jive with what the rest of us see everyday. There is nothing wrong with having an agenda, but if you think that you are going to convince the hundreds of cyclists in these threads that the bikes we have all built are substandard...you have lost your grip on reality. You are one of those guys who try to tell the Mercedes driver that his foreign car is crap in comparison to your American iron. If you want to join the guy who preceded you in throwing a fit over some epoxy on a crown race...go ahead. You aren't going to convince anyone of anything, but if it makes you feel better...by all means, off you go. If cleaning some epoxy off a crown race is what you consider bizarre work....then again, I doubt your assertions that you build all kinds of bikes....the same way I very much doubt the assertions of the guy who preceded you. 

It's easy to make claims like yours and his on the internet...but when so many of us post pictures of our perfectly functioning china bikes alongside high end bikes that hang on the wall.....those assertions are hard to chalk up as idle chest thumping. If my FM-027 was an inferior bike, I would go back to my litespeed or build something else. It isn't. Regardless of what you assume or assert based on your vast internet knowledge. 

It is strange how you and yours always tell us that there are lots of complaints and unhappy customers...but where are they? Why aren't they here? Where are the broken frame pictures? Where are the misalignment photos? Want me to show you a few dozen threads in here about big name frames with all of those problems and more? Until there are actual problems in place of your fictitious ones....I'm betting the $400 carbon frame market will not go away.


----------



## cokex

ColoRoadie said:


> I do disagree. And my litespeed is parked while I ride this 'piece of crap' happily every day.
> 
> We see a guy like you in here every once in a while. Rants and raves, throws out all kinds of examples etc but your examples never jive with what the rest of us see everyday. There is nothing wrong with having an agenda, but if you think that you are going to convince the hundreds of cyclists in these threads that the bikes we have all built are substandard...you have lost your grip on reality. You are one of those guys who try to tell the Mercedes driver that his foreign car is crap in comparison to your American iron. If you want to join the guy who preceded you in throwing a fit over some epoxy on a crown race...go ahead. You aren't going to convince anyone of anything, but if it makes you feel better...by all means, off you go. If cleaning some epoxy off a crown race is what you consider bizarre work....then again, I doubt your assertions that you build all kinds of bikes....the same way I very much doubt the assertions of the guy who preceded you.
> 
> It's easy to make claims like yours and his on the internet...but when so many of us post pictures of our perfectly functioning china bikes alongside high end bikes that hang on the wall.....those assertions are hard to chalk up as idle chest thumping. If my FM-027 was an inferior bike, I would go back to my litespeed or build something else. It isn't. Regardless of what you assume or assert based on your vast internet knowledge.
> 
> It is strange how you and yours always tell us that there are lots of complaints and unhappy customers...but where are they? Why aren't they here? Where are the broken frame pictures? Where are the misalignment photos? Want me to show you a few dozen threads in here about big name frames with all of those problems and more? Until there are actual problems in place of your fictitious ones....I'm betting the $400 carbon frame market will not go away.


+1 :thumbsup:


----------



## Cycling for Cancer

*China frames: NOT crap!*

+1 for colorado
I have read every post in this thread, found nothing to discourage me from purchasing. I am a DIY type anyway, and was considering a "name brand" frame purchase. Luckily, I held off until I found this thread...actually it was the word "Chinarello" (which seems to fit perfectly) that drew my attention!

I am going to purchase an FM028 tonight, and I need help again with sizing. I have been through the stack and reach numbers, compared them to my current ride etc. and what it boils down to is this:

I can use either the 50cm or the 52cm frame. My current ride is too big for me at 54cm.
The only read difference between the 50 and 52 will likely be how much seatpost is showing. Not much will be showing in either case (I have short legs to a normal torso). Top tube length is virtually the same, as are wheelbase etc.

I would go with the 50cm, but I read a recent post where it was advised that too small a road frame was a disadvantage, whereas slightly too big was not a problem (compared to mountain frames, which are different)...so I am just wondering...what is the real disadvantage to riding a frame a size too small? Especially if the top tube length is pretty similar?


----------



## Guymk

ColoRoadie said:


> I do disagree. And my litespeed is parked while I ride this 'piece of crap' happily every day.
> 
> We see a guy like you in here every once in a while. Rants and raves, throws out all kinds of examples etc but your examples never jive with what the rest of us see everyday. There is nothing wrong with having an agenda, but if you think that you are going to convince the hundreds of cyclists in these threads that the bikes we have all built are substandard...you have lost your grip on reality. You are one of those guys who try to tell the Mercedes driver that his foreign car is crap in comparison to your American iron. If you want to join the guy who preceded you in throwing a fit over some epoxy on a crown race...go ahead. You aren't going to convince anyone of anything, but if it makes you feel better...by all means, off you go. If cleaning some epoxy off a crown race is what you consider bizarre work....then again, I doubt your assertions that you build all kinds of bikes....the same way I very much doubt the assertions of the guy who preceded you.
> 
> It's easy to make claims like yours and his on the internet...but when so many of us post pictures of our perfectly functioning china bikes alongside high end bikes that hang on the wall.....those assertions are hard to chalk up as idle chest thumping. If my FM-027 was an inferior bike, I would go back to my litespeed or build something else. It isn't. Regardless of what you assume or assert based on your vast internet knowledge.
> 
> It is strange how you and yours always tell us that there are lots of complaints and unhappy customers...but where are they? Why aren't they here? Where are the broken frame pictures? Where are the misalignment photos? Want me to show you a few dozen threads in here about big name frames with all of those problems and more? Until there are actual problems in place of your fictitious ones....I'm betting the $400 carbon frame market will not go away.


+2

I would also like to add the fact that it takes maybe 30min to clean up some epoxy, it took me 15min to do a little sanding to get my lower headset bearing to slide in. Is paying $1000+ for a name brand frame worth that 30min that you might have to spend with a chinese frame? Not in my world.


----------



## robdamanii

ColoRoadie said:


> I do disagree. And my litespeed is parked while I ride this 'piece of crap' happily every day.
> 
> We see a guy like you in here every once in a while. Rants and raves, throws out all kinds of examples etc but your examples never jive with what the rest of us see everyday. There is nothing wrong with having an agenda, but if you think that you are going to convince the hundreds of cyclists in these threads that the bikes we have all built are substandard...you have lost your grip on reality. You are one of those guys who try to tell the Mercedes driver that his foreign car is crap in comparison to your American iron. If you want to join the guy who preceded you in throwing a fit over some epoxy on a crown race...go ahead. You aren't going to convince anyone of anything, but if it makes you feel better...by all means, off you go. If cleaning some epoxy off a crown race is what you consider bizarre work....then again, I doubt your assertions that you build all kinds of bikes....the same way I very much doubt the assertions of the guy who preceded you.
> 
> It's easy to make claims like yours and his on the internet...but when so many of us post pictures of our perfectly functioning china bikes alongside high end bikes that hang on the wall.....those assertions are hard to chalk up as idle chest thumping. If my FM-027 was an inferior bike, I would go back to my litespeed or build something else. It isn't. Regardless of what you assume or assert based on your vast internet knowledge.
> 
> It is strange how you and yours always tell us that there are lots of complaints and unhappy customers...but where are they? Why aren't they here? Where are the broken frame pictures? Where are the misalignment photos? Want me to show you a few dozen threads in here about big name frames with all of those problems and more? Until there are actual problems in place of your fictitious ones....I'm betting the $400 carbon frame market will not go away.


Don't put words in my mouth kiddo. I never said there were tons of unhappy customers (some people appear annoyed at the little foibles that you think are commonplace in carbon frames), and I never said they didn't function. Check your quotes before you need your panties debunched. 

I stated that these frames are of poor quality finish and these companies have crappy QC. There's more than a modicum of truth in that. It's very simple: you pay for what you get. These frames are unfinished and poorly QCd. Major manufacturers do not allow things like oversprayed paint, imperfect weaves, things under resin, etc etc to go out the door because they have an image to maintain. If those are acceptable to you, then that's what you get for the price. If you're happy with that, then so be it.

I'll stand by what I said: cleaning resin out of a head tube is NOT standard fare for quality carbon frames. Period. Go to a high quality manufacturer and find me a frame with resin in the race and post a photo. Go ahead, give me proof. SkyGodMatt did it, why can't you? Because it doesn't happen that way when people are actually checking on what's going out the door, that's why. Why don't you give me an explanation for just dropping the bearings in my Look and it building up perfectly? The Cannondale? Giant? Ibis? Was it fluke? Was I lucky? Or is it just a simple fact that you shouldn't have to take a dremel to a carbon frame to get parts to fit? Do you really think it's normal to have to grind down part of a crown to get a crown race to fit? Seriously? That's really one of the funniest things I've ever heard in the world of bicycle building.

Now, since you're in love with your chinese knockoff, that's wonderful. I'm happy that you have a bike you love and love to ride. However, there's a reason many frames command the prices they do, and there's a reason unbranded things from China command the prices they do. This is no different than chinese knockoff jerseys. Sure, they look the same, but they really are much lesser quality and QC than the real thing.

But hey, anything to save a buck, right? All in the name of cheap and plentiful. You want to know why there are threads about broken "brand name" frames? Because a lot of those companies have been in business longer than most of these chinese frame purveyors have been alive, that's why. When you have millions of bikes in the marketplace, vs maybe a hundred thousand, of COURSE there will be a far larger number of failures in the brand name manufacturers. It's a matter of statistics.

And furthermore, American cars suck. I'll walk before I drive an American vehicle.



Guymk said:


> +2
> 
> I would also like to add the fact that it takes maybe 30min to clean up some epoxy, it took me 15min to do a little sanding to get my lower headset bearing to slide in. Is paying $1000+ for a name brand frame worth that 30min that you might have to spend with a chinese frame? Not in my world.


You bet your wedding tackle it is. Because if something so sloppy as resin in the head tube is missed, what else was missed? What else on the frame did they overlook?

You buy a brand for the reputation, the attention to detail, the quality control and the engineering. You buy a Time for the R&D that goes into them, the quality of the manufacture and paint, the quality control before it goes out the door, the dealer support, and the backing of the company for warranty and such.

Maybe you're not interested in that and price is your only factor, but for me, I'd rather pay four times the cost of a cheap knockoff than be stuck with a substandard piece of equipment. If that makes me a snob, oh well, them's the breaks.


----------



## FTR

Is it just me or are there an awful lot of people on RBR at the moment who seem to be seeking out threads that they really have no interest in and electing to commence some sort of childish and retarded argument in???

Seriously find another hobby.
I know it is probably cold and snowy wherever you are but endurance monopoly would have to be more productive than making a complete arse of yourself on RBR.


----------



## petepeterson

FTR said:


> Is it just me or are there an awful lot of people on RBR at the moment who seem to be seeking out threads that they really have no interest in and electing to commence some sort of childish and retarded argument in???
> 
> Seriously find another hobby.
> I know it is probably cold and snowy wherever you are but endurance monopoly would have to be more productive than making a complete arse of yourself on RBR.



thank-you.

these forums are a tremendously powerful tool for someone trying to make an informed decision on these otherwise sketchy purchases. Were it not for this and other threads on this topic there is no way I would consider a frame from dengfu which I am. The irritating thing is when people who have no interest or need for information turn these things into massive sagas with fear mongering and personal preferences rather than anecdotal evidence. 

I realize there are risks - I'm OK with that I just want to understand to what degree/what % of people have been burned. It gets difficult when 60% of posts are from 5% of pissed off people.


----------



## dono007

Is anyone having a problem contacting with Greatkeenbike? he has not replied me since last Friday.

Thanks


----------



## cokex

what I've noticed is the veterans of the site with 1000+ posts are the ones hating on the chinese bikes.. 

There is no proof that these chinese bikes are not OEM or the exact same bike you buy from a bike shop in Italy that cleans up the epoxy from the crate of carbon frames they received from china and then mark them up 2-3k.

I'm not saying these are in fact OEM, but its hard to prove they are not. I would think it would be pretty hard to have a full blown factory making carbon bikes and only sell to the public. Nobody is getting rich selling bikes, people just make lots of money off them.

Just because you can afford a 10k bike, doesn't mean you have to pay that for it. I could buy a bunch of these bikes for $400, clean up the epoxy and what not, give it a good 2nd QC check and then mark it up a bit and give a full 100% warranty.. since these bikes are so cheap. Then there would be no complaints about epoxy or miss-aligned holes.. but is that worth 2k ?


----------



## cokex

dono007 said:


> Is anyone having a problem contacting with Greatkeenbike? he has not replied me since last Friday.
> 
> Thanks


I wouldn't worry.. I checked up on my bike every friday and sometimes didn't get anything back till the next week.. 

I also emailed that Stefano guy last weekend and didn't hear back till the other day..

just hold out..


----------



## infopete

dono007 said:


> Is anyone having a problem contacting with Greatkeenbike? he has not replied me since last Friday.
> 
> Thanks


Isn't it a holiday in China? I thought it was.


----------



## dono007

cokex said:


> I wouldn't worry.. I checked up on my bike every friday and sometimes didn't get anything back till the next week..
> 
> I also emailed that Stefano guy last weekend and didn't hear back till the other day..
> 
> just hold out..



thanks. This is my 2nd frame that I ordered from him. Normally, I didn't have to wait this long.


----------



## robdamanii

cokex said:


> what I've noticed is the veterans of the site with 1000+ posts are the ones hating on the chinese bikes..
> 
> There is no proof that these chinese bikes are not OEM or the exact same bike you buy from a bike shop in Italy that cleans up the epoxy from the crate of carbon frames they received from china and then mark them up 2-3k.
> 
> I'm not saying these are in fact OEM, but its hard to prove they are not. I would think it would be pretty hard to have a full blown factory making carbon bikes and only sell to the public. Nobody is getting rich selling bikes, people just make lots of money off them.
> 
> Just because you can afford a 10k bike, doesn't mean you have to pay that for it. I could buy a bunch of these bikes for $400, clean up the epoxy and what not, give it a good 2nd QC check and then mark it up a bit and give a full 100% warranty.. since these bikes are so cheap. Then there would be no complaints about epoxy or miss-aligned holes.. but is that worth 2k ?


Only the buyer can tell you. 

If you're ok with having no after-the-sale support (see missing hangers, missing spokes in chinese wheels, getting wheels replaced if something happens to them) then that's cool. Some of us prefer to have that support and will very willingly spend the money for it.

I've actually read these threads through for quite a while, and while I would never personally consider one frames, I do think they fulfill a market niche that has been utterly ignored and underserved. You could very well be right in that these frames are cast offs/imperfections of the major manufacturers line. My worry in that case would be why didn't they pass muster for the company or if they are being grabbed off the line and sold "grey market" or what have you. I really can't answer that.

I mainly take offense to the utterly absurd notion that ALL carbon manufacturers have the same out of the box problems these frames do. It simply isn't the case.


----------



## cokex

robdamanii said:


> I mainly take offense to the utterly absurd notion that ALL carbon manufacturers have the same out of the box problems these frames do. It simply isn't the case.


I agree with you on this, because that's a pretty big generalization, but we know why for these chinese frames.. poor chinese QC.. but that doesn't make this carbon frame inferior to the others.. 

The thing is, people are riding these bikes, some are racing them, with all good reviews. I haven't heard a complaint that they rode crappy or felt sub-standard. 

Real world experimentation is what I like, not just big names.


----------



## paterberg

> Major manufacturers do not allow things like oversprayed paint, imperfect weaves, things under resin, etc etc to go out the door


It's panto season so all together now - OH YES THEY DO! Once built up a Colnago frameset where the bottle bosses on the down and seat tubes were too close together. Subsequently the bottle cages touched and neither bottle ever seated properly. Sanding a little surplus material out of lower crown race of my RB003 (FM015) from carbonzone was certainly a lot less of a pain than the misaligned bosses on the Colnago.


----------



## robdamanii

cokex said:


> I agree with you on this, because that's a pretty big generalization, but we know why for these chinese frames.. poor chinese QC.. but that doesn't make this carbon frame inferior to the others..
> 
> The thing is, people are riding these bikes, some are racing them, with all good reviews. I haven't heard a complaint that they rode crappy or felt sub-standard.
> 
> Real world experimentation is what I like, not just big names.


I'll agree with you fully that people are riding and racing these bikes. I'll agree that they are getting good reviews.

Honestly, I prefer real world experimentation as well, which is why I rode a huge number of bikes before selecting the manufacturer I did. The problem I see is that the majority of people can't really tell the differences between different grades of carbon, different layups, different resins, etc etc. Who knows? These bikes could be made out of low grade carbon, poor quality resin, have poor molding techniques...we just don't know without being in the factory with them. At least with a big name manufacturer, you have some sense of what you're getting and how it will be backed up by the company.

Again, that comes down to the rider. Where price is the primary concern, these are hard to beat. When price is not an issue, other factors come into play.

And of course, there's something to be said for tried and true. Hell, I still think lugged construction is the sexiest thing out there, and still has the best ride quality. But whatever, I'm just a grump anyway.


----------



## cokex

robdamanii said:


> I'll agree with you fully that people are riding and racing these bikes. I'll agree that they are getting good reviews.
> 
> Honestly, I prefer real world experimentation as well, which is why I rode a huge number of bikes before selecting the manufacturer I did. The problem I see is that the majority of people can't really tell the differences between different grades of carbon, different layups, different resins, etc etc. Who knows? These bikes could be made out of low grade carbon, poor quality resin, have poor molding techniques...we just don't know without being in the factory with them. At least with a big name manufacturer, you have some sense of what you're getting and how it will be backed up by the company.
> 
> Again, that comes down to the rider. Where price is the primary concern, these are hard to beat. When price is not an issue, other factors come into play.
> 
> And of course, there's something to be said for tried and true. Hell, I still think lugged construction is the sexiest thing out there, and still has the best ride quality. But whatever, I'm just a grump anyway.



heh .. a grump like you would be perfect to review one of these bikes .. give it a go and buy one.. put cheap stuff like microshift on it .. and sounds like you have extra parts .. 

let us know, or let whoever finds these posts know .. 

I'd give it a thumbs up good or bad..


----------



## robdamanii

paterberg said:


> It's panto season so all together now - OH YES THEY DO! Once built up a Colnago frameset where the bottle bosses on the down and seat tubes were too close together. Subsequently the bottle cages touched and neither bottle ever seated properly. Sanding a little surplus material out of lower crown race of my RB003 (FM015) from carbonzone was certainly a lot less of a pain than the misaligned bosses on the Colnago.


How many Colnagos out there? How many chinese carbon frames? Thought so. What percentage of Colnagos have needed issues resolved? Chinese bikes?

Bottle bosses too close together (which happens on small frames fairly frequently) is a bit different than a careless defect in leaving a glob of resin in a headset race. And frankly, I would have expected a warranty from Colnago if there truly was a misalignment of those cages.

From what I've seen, about 25% of the frames people have bought need work to get parts to fit. You're right, the occasional screw up happens (like the Specialized the local shop had that the paint flaked right off it) but there's no such company that is ever perfect.

I've NEVER heard of having to dremel a race to get a bearing to seat, or sand a lower crown race. That's a new one to me.


----------



## ColoRoadie

robdamanii said:


> The problem I see is that the majority of people can't really tell the differences between different grades of carbon, different layups, different resins, etc etc. Who knows? These bikes could be made out of low grade carbon, poor quality resin, have poor molding techniques...we just don't know without being in the factory with them.


These bikes COULD be blah blah blah. That is the thing with you and yours....nothing but assumption, what if, could be....with not one actual occurance of the gloom and doom you predict. Meanwhile example after example of happy, nay...overjoyed cyclists on these frames are easy to find. All you can say to that is we must not know the difference between good carbon and bad? Pathetic. 

Odd as well that so many of us have seen high end frames with misaligned holes and/or serious problems and all you can find to sink your teeth into is a mechanical simpleton who doesnt know how to get some epoxy...off of metal.


----------



## robdamanii

cokex said:


> heh .. a grump like you would be perfect to review one of these bikes .. give it a go and buy one.. put cheap stuff like microshift on it .. and sounds like you have extra parts ..
> 
> let us know, or let whoever finds these posts know ..
> 
> I'd give it a thumbs up good or bad..


Oh god...microshift. I'd kill myself.  

As much as I'd love to get my hands on one for testing, I don't feel the need to spend the money on one just to roll around on for a few hours, and I really don't need another bike. It would be better served by dropping the coin on a couple pair of Assos bibs.

Although the carbon cross frame on here was pretty intriguing (trying to figure out what manufacturer that one is modeled after.)


----------



## cokex

robdamanii said:


> Oh god...microshift. I'd kill myself.
> 
> As much as I'd love to get my hands on one for testing, I don't feel the need to spend the money on one just to roll around on for a few hours, and I really don't need another bike. It would be better served by dropping the coin on a couple pair of Assos bibs.
> 
> Although the carbon cross frame on here was pretty intriguing (trying to figure out what manufacturer that one is modeled after.)


haha.. I thought you would find the microshift funny .. 

Even if you got one and didn't like it, it's not that much money and you could always donate it and write it off on taxes.. 

You never know, they might just be good enough to make you happy, and you save lots of money.

I can afford a 5-10k bike, but seriously ?? 10k ? I'd rather go fishing.


----------



## robdamanii

ColoRoadie said:


> These bikes COULD be blah blah blah. That is the thing with you and yours....nothing but assumption, what if, could be....with not one actual occurance of the gloom and doom you predict. Meanwhile example after example of happy, nay...overjoyed cyclists on these frames are easy to find. All you can say to that is we must not know the difference between good carbon and bad? Pathetic. Odd as well that so many of us have seen high end frames with misaligned holes and/or serious problems and all you can find to sink hour teeth into is a mechanical simpleton who doesnt know how to get some epoxy...off of metal.


You missed the point of the resin in the race entirely, because you're too blinded by your homerism to figure it out.

IT SHOULDN'T BE LEFT IN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE!

Period. If you can't understand that, then you're a lost cause bro.

Be overjoyed, be happy, be thrilled, be cheap, be angry, be bitter, be stupid, be smart... That's up to you. There is a point here that these frames have crappy QC, especially compared to companies that have a reputation to uphold. This fact you can't deny, and if you did, I'd call you an ostrich with your head in the sand.

And furthermore, you're the only one here who's vehemently defending these things, with bitter angry words, saying that they are the same quality as frames costing five times as much. 

Chill out, go ride your chinese bike, and I'll go ride my Tunisian bike.


----------



## ColoRoadie

I understand you just fine. But at the same time, I think you are full of it. You either don't know any better, or you are so wrapped up in your agenda that you refuse to admit it..but all carbon bike manufacturers have small issues like you describe. You can call it bad QC, you can insult cyclists by saying we are too stupid to know better and you can cry foul when we respond in kind...but the fact of the matter is all of the scare tactics you are using to defend the high dollar frames have been proven false over and over again. In addition to your ridiculous rantings, you have not even tried one of the frames you are so strongly opposing. I'd say the head in the sand guy...is you. 

And furthermore, I'm not the only one defending these things. Go back and count the +1, +2 etc. Where are the unhappy customers who agree with you?


----------



## cokex

This is what forums are about.. arguing with people all over the world..

Good times, and good learning..


----------



## robdamanii

ColoRoadie said:


> I understand you just fine. But at the same time, I think you are full of it. You either don't know any better, or you are so wrapped up in your agenda that you refuse to admit it..but all carbon bike manufacturers have small issues like you describe. You can call it bad QC, you can insult cyclists by saying we are too stupid to know better and you can cry foul when we respond in kind...but the fact of the matter is all of the scare tactics you are using to defend the high dollar frames have been proven false over and over again. Further...you have not even tried one of the frames you are so strongly opposing. I'd say the head in the sand guy...is you.
> 
> And furthermore, I'm not the only one defending these things. Go back and count the +1, +2 etc. Where are the unhappy customers who agree with you?


I'm counting all the people who complained about having to sand, grind, etc their frames to get basic parts to fit. I'm asserting that is not the case with Time, Pinarello, Look, Cannondale, Specialized, etc frames because they have a QC department.

If you think that name brand frames have the number of issues these chinese jobs do, then yes, you are too stupid to know better. Your words, not mine.

No, I haven't tried one. Why would I? I never said they didn't function, and that people weren't happy with them. I said the QC sucks and their design/construction methods are unknown. You're the one who says that equates to knocking them down in favor of name brands.

Hell, what do I care? I must be a snob with a $10k bike, so I must hate cheap things. No brother, I hate people who generalize and say that "it's ok that these have these kinds of problems, every major brand has the same problems." That's pure BS and you know it. Bottom line is you're pissed off that someone called you on it. It's ok bro, you made a mistake and we forgive you.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming...


----------



## fab4

chinarelloman said:


> Received my pinarello copy frame a couple of weeks ago from cyclingyong.com. I got the red and yellow paint job. I paid $800 for frame, fork, and headset, which I now is more than other people are paying, but the paint job is as close to the real thing as it gets. I even took it to the lbs to get it built up and the mechanic never realized it was a fake. I would totally recommend cyclingyong if you want a perfect paint job, but their wheels, cages, and bars are overpriced.



Hi,
How do you like you chinarello frame? Do you have pictures you can email me. Your response is appreciated. Thanks.
Ron
[email protected]


----------



## FTR

What about media that needs to be cleaned out of ti frames?
Talking to a guy I know who has a lot of experience with high end ti manufacturers and he told me that he is yet to work on a frame yet that did not need this cleaned out.


----------



## fab4

vladvm said:


> Unpacking Chinarello...
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F82G_NGBEtU



Hi,
I'm interestedf in buying one of them chinarello frameset. Where did you buy yours? Thanks,


----------



## ColoRoadie

robdamanii said:


> I'm counting all the people who complained about having to sand, grind, etc their frames to get basic parts to fit. I'm asserting that is not the case with Time, Pinarello, Look, Cannondale, Specialized, etc frames because they have a QC department.
> 
> If you think that name brand frames have the number of issues these chinese jobs do, then yes, you are too stupid to know better. Your words, not mine.
> 
> No, I haven't tried one. Why would I? I never said they didn't function, and that people weren't happy with them. I said the QC sucks and their design/construction methods are unknown. You're the one who says that equates to knocking them down in favor of name brands.
> 
> Hell, what do I care? I must be a snob with a $10k bike, so I must hate cheap things. No brother, I hate people who generalize and say that "it's ok that these have these kinds of problems, every major brand has the same problems." That's pure BS and you know it. Bottom line is you're pissed off that someone called you on it. It's ok bro, you made a mistake and we forgive you.
> 
> Back to your regularly scheduled programming...


All of the people? Where are all of these unhappy customers you keep referring to? Over and over again you refer to them...and yet none of them come in here to back up your claims of poor quality control. Why is that? 

Yes, I understand that you are asserting that the high dollar frames have none of these problems, and I am saying you are wrong. Here you are, post after post declaring how inferior these frames are and you have never even put a hand on one. You've never ridden one. You've never built one. You have no expertise in the area at all...because you have never done it, and yet you rant and rave and accuse them of using inferior materials etc etc etc. All without a single failure. Not one. What is your agenda here? You have no experience with the frames at all, yet you spend hours in here attacking them. To what end? Do you work for a bike shop that is losing money because the middle 10 men are being bypassed? I am just trying to understand why you would spend so much time in a forum on frames that you have no interest in...all the while doing nothing but rant about things you have no knowledge of. It's perplexing. 

Their design/construction methods are not known? You really are grasping at straws here aren't you. Not one failure. None. Plenty of them being raced...no failures at all. Yet you now call into question their design and construction methods...to go along with the materials question you posed earlier. NOT ONE FAILURE. I don't care if they are made out of tissue paper glued together with panda snot. They are solid, they are reliable and best of all...they really seem to piss off guys like you. That's a trifecta as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## robdamanii

ColoRoadie said:


> All of the people? Where are all of these unhappy customers you keep referring to? Over and over again you refer to them...and yet none of them come in here to back up your claims of poor quality control. Why is that?
> 
> Yes, I understand that you are asserting that the high dollar frames have none of these problems, and I am saying you are wrong. Here you are, post after post declaring how inferior these frames are and you have never even put a hand on one. You've never ridden one. You've never built one. You have no expertise in the area at all...because you have never done it, and yet you rant and rave and accuse them of using inferior materials etc etc etc. All without a single failure. Not one. What is your agenda here? You have no experience with the frames at all, yet you spend hours in here attacking them. To what end? Do you work for a bike shop that is losing money because the middle 10 men are being bypassed? I am just trying to understand why you would spend so much time in a forum on frames that you have no interest in...all the while doing nothing but rant about things you have no knowledge of. It's perplexing.
> 
> Their design/construction methods are not known? You really are grasping at straws here aren't you. Not one failure. None. Plenty of them being raced...no failures at all. Yet you now call into question their design and construction methods...to go along with the materials question you posed earlier. NOT ONE FAILURE. I don't care if they are made out of tissue paper glued together with panda snot. They are solid, they are reliable and best of all...they really seem to piss off guys like you. That's a trifecta as far as I'm concerned.


I never once said they failed. I said I'd rather spend money on something that I KNOW what I'm getting, construction, engineering, QC and warranty. You don't care about those things; only price enters your equation. That's your choice, and I'm glad that's all you care about.

Keep cleaning resin out of your races, keep drilling out your internal cable routings, keep sanding your races. I'll take pleasure next time I seamlessly build a well finished frame.

So much vitriol out of such a bitter, angry little man. Oh well. Glad you love your cheap bike. I love my expensive one. That's all that counts, isn't it?


----------



## Guymk

I will agree and say that the QC coming out of china is not the same as the QC from the big name brands. BUT that being said for someone who is on a budget and wants a nice carbon frame for the price you can't beat them. That is all.


----------



## chinarelloman

robdamanii piss off. You don't own one of these bikes so please don't talk about them like you do.

Also I have to recommend cyclingyong.com again. My chinarello is perfect and had NO PROBLEMS AT ALL. 
And I also recently asked them for some extra pinarello head tube stickers and they are sending them to me for free. Pretty good service.


----------



## robdamanii

Guymk said:


> I will agree and say that the QC coming out of china is not the same as the QC from the big name brands. BUT that being said for someone who is on a budget and wants a nice carbon frame for the price you can't beat them. That is all.


I'll stand by that. If price is your main object, go for it.

Chinarelloman, your opinion is as valid as anyone else's including mine. I hate to tell you, carbon bike frames are pretty simple mechanical contraptions. If price blinds your common sense, that's too bad. If you can't see the good, AND the bad of something, then you're missing something.

And stop labeling your knock off as a Pinarello. It's a sad case of bike related penis envy.


----------



## WheresWaldo

skygodmatt said:


> Warranty. Give it to the shop and you get a new one for free. That's the nice thing about a dealer network. Support.


This is usually never the case, If you read carefully there is no such thing as a "Lifetime" warranty especially on a carbon frame and rarely is it free.

You are correct about a dealer network and support but you also pay for that too. What you haven't factored in but was mentioned by ColoRider was that before you get your frame/bike from the shop many shops need to "fix" things not done properly at the factory it came from.

Please note that NameAnyCompany that sources from Asia buys in such large quantities that they get an even better price than what we as individuals are quoted, and usually have a contracted agent to oversee quality control, but you pay for that with increased sales price. That $1300 Giant probably cost them less than $75 to make, after all Giant IS the largest bicycle manufacturer in the world. If you wanted to buy as many bikes as Giant makes from one of these other Chinese companies and you have someone or travel yourself to China to oversee their production you can probably get the same kind of pricing as well as better quality control. Since that won't likely happen then make do with what you can.

I do not have any issue with doing a little modding to my frame to make sure everything assembles and works correctly. Had to do it with all my steel frames (facing BB and Head tube, chasing threads, reaming brake bolt holes), all too common. First batch of aluminum frames were the same way. Things are better now and we put up with minor imperfections since manufacturing tolerances are better, but you will still get the occasional out of round head tube or extra paint in the BB threads. Anything made by human hands will not be perfect even if it cost you thousands at retail.

Just a point of reference, I have owned everything from french steel to Japanese steel to USA made aluminum to Asian made aluminum to USA custom carbon to Asian carbon and every one without question had some little quirk that required attention, some more than others, in order to make it perfect. If I just wanted it ride-able and serviceable many needed no work at all, but perfection comes at a price.


----------



## independentmind

skygodmatt said:


> My point is that if I buy a new item-- I don't expect to be fixing it the day I get it.
> 
> If I did that kind of quality, I would never get referrals. Instead I do a quality job and get plenty of work so I can buy bikes.
> Guess people are accepting lower standards these days... I won't.
> As long as your happy with what you buy. That's the main thing.
> Anyhow, time to move on and ride. The weather in California is awesome this week.


 

Hey there, I've been away from this thread for a couple of weeks and just read up on your issue. It really sucks that you're feeling like this especially after you were so excited about getting the frame (a few posts back.)

I don't know if this is any consolation at all but, a training partner of mine recently purchased a Felt DA (tri bike, pretty damn high end). The shop where she got it from went through the frame and parts and found a defective chainstay, they sent back the package for replacement. The second time the package was delivered they found the wheels were so out of true they could not be re-tensioned in-house, so back they went to Felt. Third time was a charm, but guess what? They found loose carbon laminate inside the headtube when they pulled the fork out for examination, after removal of the material the bike was good to go.

There's a reason builders take bikes apart and examine frames when they show up in the shop, stuff like this just happens sometimes.

Mind you, some of the issues people have been finding on these frames are a little out there. But again, we're not paying a premium price, I'm not making up excuses for crap production but we're getting what we are paying for.


----------



## config

We're on v4 of the thread and like 20K hits but I still don't get why people are spending time on this thread if they're not interested in these Chinese carbon frames. I read a multitude of replies (thanks to everyone), made my decision and have had over 1K of HAPPY MILES since Sep. What else can I ask for?


----------



## vladvm

Why is there a lot of hate for these frames? These are absolutely great frames for the price! Made of high modulus carbon, very strong, very light 900g chinarello frame unpainted, superb ride, race ready, can be personalized, fast shipping, and most of all cheap!

What is there to hate really? QC? come on it's a $400 frame. That is four full tank on an SUV. Just be glad people buy these frames to finally afford light bikes, learn how to build and actually ride more. Don't discourage people from buying these wonderful frames.


----------



## vladvm

fab4 said:


> Hi,
> I'm interestedf in buying one of them chinarello frameset. Where did you buy yours? Thanks,


Maniac bicycle on ebay


----------



## snippy

To those talking about front cable routing and the placement of the cable stops, what I did is route the cable to the opposite side of the bike and cross the cables over under the down tube to the correct side. It fixes the sharp bend and works great.

Of course, I didn't come up with it, just copied what I saw somewhere here on RBR


----------



## skygodmatt

Guys, 

I do see you points. But, the quality control on these frames is more than a little lacking. 

Answer this question:
If you were told your frame would have mis-aligned dropouts or sticky internal brake cables and bad brake bridges--would you still buy it for $500. You would say NO. 

So now you've got one and the fix is to send it back at your shipping expense both ways another $200. Then you'll get another one with issues. That sucks. 

I actually got lucky with this frame. All I had was epoxy in the cups. Everything else was okay....and I am still whining. Why? Because I hate suckers that settle for substandard mediocrity. This action lets company's think they can pawn their junk and it's okay. 
That's not okay with me. 

Have you guys seen that Rogue Mechanic link?
http://www.roguemechanic.typepad.com/
That's a $4000 Cervelo with cups that need grinding. Totally unacceptable. Don't touch it and send it back. Let Cervelo deal with it. The shop shouldn't break out the grinder. I don't any shop that does. You wouldn't buy this in an American shop.
Joe Consumer is protected from this crap.

Now with the China frames--different story--they "expect" you to deal with crap. If the issue is too big that you can't --oh well. Screw you. 
That is the ATTITUDE from these manufacturers that I will not tolerate. 
I really hope you don't either. Eventually they will learn they can't get away with it and they won't try these shenanigans anymore. 

" A job worth doing is a job worth doing well"


----------



## vladvm

skygodmatt said:


> So now you've got one and the fix is to send it back at your shipping expense both ways another $200. Then you'll get another one with issues. That sucks. "


Depends who you buy from. Maniac bicycle offers full refund including shipping if item is defective. They offered for me to return the frame with full refund including shipping because of the cable guide misalignment but I decided it's minor fix for me to do myself with a candle and 2 minutes of my time.

So please don't generalize all carbon frames from china, and stop discouraging people who are really interested in purchasing. It is more productive and more helpful to just tell us which seller you bought your frame from, what defect you found and if it was major or minor. And if you really got a bad experience from that seller, make sure other people here are aware and don't buy from them.


----------



## ColoRoadie

skygodmatt said:


> Guys,
> 
> I do see you points. But, the quality control on these frames is more than a little lacking.
> 
> Answer this question:
> If you were told your frame would have mis-aligned dropouts or sticky internal brake cables and bad brake bridges--would you still buy it for $500. You would say NO.
> 
> So now you've got one and the fix is to send it back at your shipping expense both ways another $200. Then you'll get another one with issues. That sucks.
> 
> I actually got lucky with this frame. All I had was epoxy in the cups. Everything else was okay....and I am still whining. Why? Because I hate suckers that settle for substandard mediocrity. This action lets company's think they can pawn their junk and it's okay.
> That's not okay with me.
> 
> Have you guys seen that Rogue Mechanic link?
> http://www.roguemechanic.typepad.com/
> That's a $4000 Cervelo with cups that need grinding. Totally unacceptable. Don't touch it and send it back. Let Cervelo deal with it. The shop shouldn't break out the grinder. I don't any shop that does. You wouldn't buy this in an American shop.
> Joe Consumer is protected from this crap.
> 
> Now with the China frames--different story--they "expect" you to deal with crap. If the issue is too big that you can't --oh well. Screw you.
> That is the ATTITUDE from these manufacturers that I will not tolerate.
> I really hope you don't either. Eventually they will learn they can't get away with it and they won't try these shenanigans anymore.
> 
> " A job worth doing is a job worth doing well"



Just for my clarification. Your china frame had epoxy on the cups (a 30 second fix that you paid someone else to do) and no other problems, but the quality control on these china frames suck...even though you got lucky. There are multiple possible catastrophic problems, none of which you have experienced, but all of which you are an expert on. People should heed your warnings and avoid these frames, despite the 6k previous posts stating otherwise....based on your assertion of problems you have not experienced and defects that possibly could but oddly don't exist. You speak of 'screw you' Chinese attitudes, though you did not experience such yourself even with your horrific epoxy experience while referencing a frame costing TEN times as much that had the same problem? This after you assured me that high end frames don't experience this?

Have I got that right? Do you, by chance, own a hat made from aluminum foil?


----------



## paterberg

robdamanii said:


> How many Colnagos out there? How many chinese carbon frames? Thought so. What percentage of Colnagos have needed issues resolved? Chinese bikes?
> 
> Bottle bosses too close together (which happens on small frames fairly frequently) is a bit different than a careless defect in leaving a glob of resin in a headset race. And frankly, I would have expected a warranty from Colnago if there truly was a misalignment of those cages.
> 
> From what I've seen, about 25% of the frames people have bought need work to get parts to fit. You're right, the occasional screw up happens (like the Specialized the local shop had that the paint flaked right off it) but there's no such company that is ever perfect.
> 
> I've NEVER heard of having to dremel a race to get a bearing to seat, or sand a lower crown race. That's a new one to me.


Complete nonsense pal. The Colnago frame in question was actually a 56cm so not a small size. Poorly fitting bottle cages cannot obviously be changed so you're trying to tell us that's it's less of a hassle than having to spend 10 minutes sanding a little surplus resin of the crown race of a Chinese frame. Wake up and smell the coffee. Do you actually own either a Colnago or a Chinese frame? I've been building bikes since the late 70s and I've owned 6 Colnagos, (actually have a M10 on order for this year). Apart from cage scenario I've also experienced other problems with Colnagos - seat tube not correctly machined internally for the post, slight overspray and rear triangle slightly out of alignment. Aside from the bottle cage issue (the overspray didn't worry me unduly - we are talking hand painted after all) the other issues were easily resolve without a whole heap of whining and a little modicum of common sense. 

Don't get me wrong I'm still a big Colnago fan but what I'm saying is that even when you're paying £2500+ for a Colnago frameset you can still expect little issues which need to be resolved and as far as I can see the issues that are being experienced with the Chinese frames are not any more traumatic than those found with the brand names. Have you yet heard of any serious failures with the Chinese frames from reputable sources? I've scoured all of these forums and can see nowt. I have two personal friends who both have had Treks fail in dangerous situations. I paid £335 for my FM015 from carbonzone and, although I'd had little ride time due to the weather, I can't speak highly enough of the quality and the service. 

This is my personal experience but then it is based on experience rather than complete supposition and is seconded by the vast majority on this forum who do actually own a Chinese carbon frame.


----------



## robdamanii

skygodmatt said:


> Guys,
> 
> I do see you points. But, the quality control on these frames is more than a little lacking.
> 
> Answer this question:
> If you were told your frame would have mis-aligned dropouts or sticky internal brake cables and bad brake bridges--would you still buy it for $500. You would say NO.
> 
> So now you've got one and the fix is to send it back at your shipping expense both ways another $200. Then you'll get another one with issues. That sucks.
> 
> I actually got lucky with this frame. All I had was epoxy in the cups. Everything else was okay....and I am still whining. Why? Because I hate suckers that settle for substandard mediocrity. This action lets company's think they can pawn their junk and it's okay.
> That's not okay with me.
> 
> Have you guys seen that Rogue Mechanic link?
> http://www.roguemechanic.typepad.com/
> That's a $4000 Cervelo with cups that need grinding. Totally unacceptable. Don't touch it and send it back. Let Cervelo deal with it. The shop shouldn't break out the grinder. I don't any shop that does. You wouldn't buy this in an American shop.
> Joe Consumer is protected from this crap.
> 
> Now with the China frames--different story--they "expect" you to deal with crap. If the issue is too big that you can't --oh well. Screw you.
> That is the ATTITUDE from these manufacturers that I will not tolerate.
> I really hope you don't either. Eventually they will learn they can't get away with it and they won't try these shenanigans anymore.
> 
> " A job worth doing is a job worth doing well"



And that is the thrust of the issue.

Cheap to the consumer means corners cut. Corners cut =/= to people who value quality in craftsmanship these days. 

Matt, sorry you had to deal with this kind of stuff. I hope the frame builds up and rides wonderfully and it's worth the hassle.


----------



## paterberg

robdamanii said:


> And that is the thrust of the issue.
> 
> Cheap to the consumer means corners cut. Corners cut =/= to people who value quality in craftsmanship these days.
> 
> Matt, sorry you had to deal with this kind of stuff. I hope the frame builds up and rides wonderfully and it's worth the hassle.


LOL!! Aw c'mon now lads. No really, it seriously is the panto season! The guy's bought an absolutely cracking carbon frame for a few hundred dollars and then he's crying :cryin: about having to pay a shop to sand a wee bit of glue off the crown race cos he's too inept to do it himself. Then the other dude's sympatizing him almost as if there's been a bereavement. Simply priceless. There really is the basis for a good comedy movie here!!!!


----------



## robdamanii

paterberg said:


> LOL!! Aw c'mon now lads. No really, it seriously is the panto season! The guy's bought an absolutely cracking carbon frame for a few hundred dollars and then he's crying :cryin: about having to pay a shop to sand a wee bit of glue off the crown race cos he's too inept to do it himself. Then the other dude's sympatizing him almost as if there's been a bereavement. Simply priceless. There really is the basis for a good comedy movie here!!!!


It's almost as funny as you people defending this poor quality control as normal.


----------



## vladvm

robdamanii said:


> It's almost as funny as you people defending this poor quality control as normal.


not normal but expected on a $400 carbon frame.


----------



## stevesbike

don't lump all budget chinese frames together - there's a difference between an ebay seller with zero background vs. doing some research and finding the source of good open mold frames. You should know where the frame comes from - is it ADK, etc. While it's not foolproof, doing some research helps guard against the worst case scenario: a factory using carbon scraps etc to toss together a frame that looks OK but is not safe. Don't think for a minute that such frames aren't being made by unscrupulous vendors...


----------



## Cycling for Cancer

*One persons tragedy is another persons fun...*

I was prepared to drop $900 on a "name brand" frame with seatpost, headset, fork. Then I found out about these "cheap" chinese frames, and for the past two or three weeks, I haven't thought of almost anything else. I love reading about all the rbr members "struggling" with the horrendous issues of poor quality control...but they end up with a masterpiece of their own creation! I have been particularly impressed with the way people have customized their bike with paint schemes, custom stickers, and components. I love not only the end result (a great, custom, personalized bike) but also the PROCESS. For me, half the fun really is getting there, so not only don't I mind all the posts showing what people had to do to complete their projects...I love it!

I also ride motorcycles. I have a $20k BMW (K1200LT) and I also subscribe to a forum for owners (BMWLT.com). You should see the trouble those owners (enthusiasts!) go through (including some horrendous design and qc problems such as final drive failures!). My point is that qc issues exist everywhere. And, since nobody mentioned it, where is more and more manufacturing being concentrated? China. 

We can actually do our part to improve the quality or qc of the frames by educating our suppliers. I had a lengthy instant message conversation with a supplier who was eager, but didn't know much about bikes. He responded well even though it is hard sometimes to get a point across...I have seen the prior posts...(especially the post about a fictitious interaction with Jenny-hilarious!-but sadly accurate).

While I am ranting, let me say this: the supplier can be responsive. For example, if you get two price quotes ("Proforma Invoice") you can compare and get one supplier to match the price of another. On the other hand, it can be difficult and time consuming to compare specs across different supplier part numbers (try matching part numbers for seat posts or handlebars...most of the time they are close, but sometimes very different from one supplier to another). This is where cheapcarbonframes.com comes in. I have found that it is very easy to update the spreadsheet he created for the suppliers. Eventually the spreadsheet should contain comparisons of all the different part numbers/specs for both frames and other components.

Regarding the suppliers (HongFu, DengFu, Sunday Trade, Miracle Trade etc) it appears that some of them do the manufacturing (HongFu, DengFu). Because the same part numbers are used (eg FM015, FM028) it can get confusing. For example, the FM028 appears to be available only from DengFu and Sunday Trade. They look the same, yet the Sunday Trade model is 150g lighter. So it seems logical that multiple manufacturers have access to the same "mold" but that manufacturing details vary slightly from one to the other. It does seem that they all use quality carbon (Toray or other-coming mostly from Japan). Direct comparisons become problematic even if the drawing (blueprint) is the same. So eventually the supplier spreadsheet should contain manufacturing specs and ride quality details...lots more work to be done for enthusiasts!

Its a brave new world out there, and dealing directly with chinese manufactureres/suppliers is a pretty interesting part of it. 

BTW I am close to ordering an FM028 non-ISP with bars, stem, seatpost, spacers, cages, saddle, and custom one color paint for about $750 inclusive of shipping. Hard to believe!


----------



## Albert Meijer

My roadbike, JING Cycling.
Sram Apex, 11/32.
Weight: 7,8kg (17.2 lbs), pedals included.
Albert, Netherlands.


----------



## tdawg183

robdamanii said:


> It's almost as funny as you people defending this poor quality control as normal.


I definitely see your overall point but I don't understand why you keep having to say the same thing over and over again.

Did you not get the point of everybody else on purchasing these frames? I can explain very simply that by purchasing a $600 replica of a $3k frame, we can all make progress towards a higher standard of living and use that price difference much more wisely. For this I believe we can all make sacrifices if need be... heck, if you feel that a tiny amount of excess resin is simply unacceptable on your bike, by all means, raise hell. I'll keep my extra $2400.

You have to also consider that the majority of us aren't going to notice the difference in ride characteristics of identically shaped frames with supposedly different constructions. It should also go without saying that the name brands are marked up too much anyhow.

You sound like a diva.


----------



## skygodmatt

Cycling for Cancer said:


> I was prepared to drop $900 on a "name brand" frame with seatpost, headset, fork. Then I found out about these "cheap" chinese frames, and for the past two or three weeks, I haven't thought of almost anything else. I love reading about all the rbr members "struggling" with the horrendous issues of poor quality control...but they end up with a masterpiece of their own creation! I have been particularly impressed with the way people have customized their bike with paint schemes, custom stickers, and components. I love not only the end result (a great, custom, personalized bike) but also the PROCESS. For me, half the fun really is getting there, so not only don't I mind all the posts showing what people had to do to complete their projects...I love it!
> 
> I also ride motorcycles. I have a $20k BMW (K1200LT) and I also subscribe to a forum for owners (BMWLT.com). You should see the trouble those owners (enthusiasts!) go through (including some horrendous design and qc problems such as final drive failures!). My point is that qc issues exist everywhere. And, since nobody mentioned it, where is more and more manufacturing being concentrated? China.
> 
> We can actually do our part to improve the quality or qc of the frames by educating our suppliers. I had a lengthy instant message conversation with a supplier who was eager, but didn't know much about bikes. He responded well even though it is hard sometimes to get a point across...I have seen the prior posts...(especially the post about a fictitious interaction with Jenny-hilarious!-but sadly accurate).
> 
> While I am ranting, let me say this: the supplier can be responsive. For example, if you get two price quotes ("Proforma Invoice") you can compare and get one supplier to match the price of another. On the other hand, it can be difficult and time consuming to compare specs across different supplier part numbers (try matching part numbers for seat posts or handlebars...most of the time they are close, but sometimes very different from one supplier to another). This is where cheapcarbonframes.com comes in. I have found that it is very easy to update the spreadsheet he created for the suppliers. Eventually the spreadsheet should contain comparisons of all the different part numbers/specs for both frames and other components.
> 
> Regarding the suppliers (HongFu, DengFu, Sunday Trade, Miracle Trade etc) it appears that some of them do the manufacturing (HongFu, DengFu). Because the same part numbers are used (eg FM015, FM028) it can get confusing. For example, the FM028 appears to be available only from DengFu and Sunday Trade. They look the same, yet the Sunday Trade model is 150g lighter. So it seems logical that multiple manufacturers have access to the same "mold" but that manufacturing details vary slightly from one to the other. It does seem that they all use quality carbon (Toray or other-coming mostly from Japan). Direct comparisons become problematic even if the drawing (blueprint) is the same. So eventually the supplier spreadsheet should contain manufacturing specs and ride quality details...lots more work to be done for enthusiasts!
> 
> Its a brave new world out there, and dealing directly with chinese manufactureres/suppliers is a pretty interesting part of it.
> 
> BTW I am close to ordering an FM028 non-ISP with bars, stem, seatpost, spacers, cages, saddle, and custom one color paint for about $750 inclusive of shipping. Hard to believe!


Point well stated.
But...

I wouldn't go off advertised weights. My frame came out heavier than advertised and I've seen posts of frames that are 200g heavier.

Also, these frames have no safety record. They are not backed by a major company that have shops here in the USA. You can't walk them in to the shop and pick out a new one. Plus, the seller promised me EN test safety reports but now he's changed his mind.....gee I wonder why? There's something pretty fishy here. 

Quality Control? I expect for these prices you are getting heavier carbon, no dealer or shop support, no proven history etc...
What I DO NOT expect is such poor quality that the frames are actually defective. That is the case with many of these.

Have you seen the inside? Shine a pen light and mirror in the headtube/toptube junction-- Mine looks like a paper mache collage or a scrap quilt. The carbon sheets are pasted in every which way as if they took scraps on the floor and laid them in the mold. Globs of resin are everywhere. It's so sloppy man. Grind that down. My other brand name frames don't look anything like that.

If you are thinking of spending $750 I think it's a mistake. 
For $1350 to $1500 you can get a Felt or GIant etc...with all the support, proven history and safety and overall a cleaner frame. 

Plus, you would be stimulating your local neighborhood shop and building a great repoire for deals in the future. What are you going to do if everything was bought direct from China and there are no more bike shops in your area? That would suck. You gonna email China for a part you need for the race the next day? NO. 
I don't know about you, but my shop hooks me up on great deals that are well below the retail value. 

In the end you are only saving a few hundred bucks on the frames....but you are going through a tremendous hassle factor. 

This is only my opinion which we are free to express on these forums. 
So please don't go on the war path and start name calling me a whining little ***** or whatever.


----------



## fab4

*GreatKeenBike Sport Equipment Company*

Does anybody know what's going on with Greatkeen http://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/home.php? They haven't responded to any of my emails in a week and I'm getting a little bit worried? I ordered a chinarello RFM101 frameset last Dec and it was suppose to be shipped last Jan 5th according to the last email I received from them. My contact person is [email protected]. Normally they respond promptly to emails.


----------



## chinarelloman

Albert Meijer said:


> My roadbike, JING Cycling.
> Sram Apex, 11/32.
> Weight: 7,8kg (17.2 lbs), pedals included.
> Albert, Netherlands.


sweet bike. Did you get from greatkeenbike?


----------



## robdamanii

tdawg183 said:


> You sound like a diva.


Thank you.  

I AM a diva. I expect my bike to be perfect, to shift perfectly, to be spotless...perfection. Hell, I'll never buy another monocoque bike again; lugged bikes are just so much better feeling and so much sexier. Probably another good reason I'll not buy a chinese carbon frame.


----------



## Myrkur

I have now seen a few of these fake-pinarellos and I have to say that they look incredibly lame.. With these chinese frames you have the opportunity to be really creative and do some unique stuff but yet some people choose to buy these pirated frames which just scream fake. I'm pretty sure that in my local club rides these would be nothing but a laughing-stock.

If someone asks you about the frame do you tell that it's a fake frame or pretend that it's not?


----------



## Albert Meijer

It's from JING Cycling, Aliexpress.com.
But it is a greatkeen frame for sure.


----------



## independentmind

skygodmatt said:


> Point well stated.
> But...
> 
> I wouldn't go off advertised weights. My frame came out heavier than advertised and I've seen posts of frames that are 200g heavier.
> 
> Also, these frames have no safety record. They are not backed by a major company that have shops here in the USA. You can't walk them in to the shop and pick out a new one. Plus, the seller promised me EN test safety reports but now he's changed his mind.....gee I wonder why? There's something pretty fishy here.
> 
> Quality Control? I expect for these prices you are getting heavier carbon, no dealer or shop support, no proven history etc...
> What I DO NOT expect is such poor quality that the frames are actually defective. That is the case with many of these.
> 
> Have you seen the inside? Shine a pen light and mirror in the headtube/toptube junction-- Mine looks like a paper mache collage or a scrap quilt. The carbon sheets are pasted in every which way as if they took scraps on the floor and laid them in the mold. Globs of resin are everywhere. It's so sloppy man. Grind that down. My other brand name frames don't look anything like that.
> 
> If you are thinking of spending $750 I think it's a mistake.
> For $1350 to $1500 you can get a Felt or GIant etc...with all the support, proven history and safety and overall a cleaner frame.
> 
> Plus, you would be stimulating your local neighborhood shop and building a great repoire for deals in the future. What are you going to do if everything was bought direct from China and there are no more bike shops in your area? That would suck. You gonna email China for a part you need for the race the next day? NO.
> I don't know about you, but my shop hooks me up on great deals that are well below the retail value.
> 
> In the end you are only saving a few hundred bucks on the frames....but you are going through a tremendous hassle factor.
> 
> This is only my opinion which we are free to express on these forums.
> So please don't go on the war path and start name calling me a whining little ***** or whatever.


Indeed, the weight was off on my TT frame as well. I wonder if that's because the manufacturing process can vary from frame to frame (Since the sheets are layed down by hand?) I'm honestly really curious about this.

In fact, I'm sure my CAAD9 frame weighs less than the carbon TT. But then again, that's the case for a lot of carbon frames out there (brand name or not.)

Back on track, let's just say "lesson learned" and move on skygodmatt, next time don't purchase one of these frames. When you've had enough of it or you start having issues, upgrade to a name brand, move all the parts over and be done with it. To be completely blunt If you think the frame is crap and has too many issues, if it aggravates you to ride it, you don't like Chinese QC, then stop ridding the damn frame, cut it in half and use it as wall decoration. Proceed to your LBS and order yourself a nice Felt, Look, Argon-18, etc. Or go custom, there's some really good builders out there that really care about their name.

I'm sure your research showed that MOST of these frames come with all sorts of "baggage" so WHY did you get one if you weren't ready to deal with the issues?

Crap QC is everywhere, i paid $300 for a brand name wetsuit (yep, $300 bucks worth of rubber and glue) that arrived with issues, thankfully it is from a well known American Company that covered shipping (from Canada). People going into a purchase of one of these frames KNOW they basically forfeit this advantage. You seem like an intelligent guy and I know you did as-well, you knew the risks.

We live in a wasteful society with little eye for quality. QC and the pride of building something by hand is long dead. Manufactures want to push the products out the door ASAP with their eye on the bottom dollar, their employees get crap wages so why would "Joe Schmoe" pay attention to detail? Hence the sh*t wetsuits, leaky goggles, messed up frames (from major manufacturers included. I recall seeing an older Specialized Tarmac that had just TERRIBLE carbon overlay, it looked like a 12 year old did it.) 

This is no excuse for any manufacturer (cheap frame or not) but as long as there's someone making cheap stuff there's someone buying it. And my friend, people will take the risk every time if the price is right. And no, mass manufacturers don't now, or will ever give a damn, because for every guy that turns their back on them there are about 100 waiting to knock on their door.

Cheers mate, go ride.

/enough


----------



## neilh

skygodmatt said:


> This is only my opinion which we are free to express on these forums.


Yep, no problem there. But how about you and robdamanii give it a rest? I'm getting tired of reading every second or third post from either one of you saying the same thing each time.

While every else should respect that you're free to voice an opinion I think you should respect us by posting the details of your issues and thoughts once and let it go.


----------



## Guymk

skydogmatt, we know how you feel about the chinese carbon frames, your point has been well taken. Now can we get on with things?


----------



## wevergo

skygodmatt said:


> Point well stated.
> But...
> 
> I wouldn't go off advertised weights. My frame came out heavier than advertised and I've seen posts of frames that are 200g heavier.
> 
> Also, these frames have no safety record. They are not backed by a major company that have shops here in the USA. You can't walk them in to the shop and pick out a new one. Plus, the seller promised me EN test safety reports but now he's changed his mind.....gee I wonder why? There's something pretty fishy here.
> 
> Quality Control? I expect for these prices you are getting heavier carbon, no dealer or shop support, no proven history etc...
> What I DO NOT expect is such poor quality that the frames are actually defective. That is the case with many of these.
> 
> Have you seen the inside? Shine a pen light and mirror in the headtube/toptube junction-- Mine looks like a paper mache collage or a scrap quilt. The carbon sheets are pasted in every which way as if they took scraps on the floor and laid them in the mold. Globs of resin are everywhere. It's so sloppy man. Grind that down. My other brand name frames don't look anything like that.
> 
> If you are thinking of spending $750 I think it's a mistake.
> For $1350 to $1500 you can get a Felt or GIant etc...with all the support, proven history and safety and overall a cleaner frame.
> 
> Plus, you would be stimulating your local neighborhood shop and building a great repoire for deals in the future. What are you going to do if everything was bought direct from China and there are no more bike shops in your area? That would suck. You gonna email China for a part you need for the race the next day? NO.
> I don't know about you, but my shop hooks me up on great deals that are well below the retail value.
> 
> In the end you are only saving a few hundred bucks on the frames....but you are going through a tremendous hassle factor.
> 
> This is only my opinion which we are free to express on these forums.
> So please don't go on the war path and start name calling me a whining little ***** or whatever.


I also have a Trek Madone 5.2 and a Cube carbon Agree GTC Pro.
This is my roadbike for holidays in the French Alps.
So, I know the difference.

Wevergo


----------



## independentmind

Guymk said:


> skydogmatt, we know how you feel about the chinese carbon frames, your point has been well taken. Now can we get on with things?


Indeed...

So I destroyed the bearing assembly in my headset (don't ask how, it's too embaracing to describe). The "cover" that is part of the assembly has come off exposing the bearings, this also means the fork isn't seating properly (there's some play that I can't get rid of.)

Does anyone have any info on the "Neco" headset that was sent with most of our frames (with the expander bung for carbon forks). I would like to find a suitable replacement for the entire thing that wont cost a tonne of money (maybe Cane Creek, FSA?)


----------



## stevesbike

for the headset, you'll have to determine the standard (campy or cane creek) Look here under bearing types for more http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headset_(bicycle_part). You can determine this by looking at the cartridge of the one installed (should have some numbers on it like 45x45)


----------



## independentmind

stevesbike said:


> for the headset, you'll have to determine the standard (campy or cane creek) Look here under bearing types for more http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headset_(bicycle_part). You can determine this by looking at the cartridge of the one installed (should have some numbers on it like 45x45)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headset_(bicycle_part)#Bearing_types

Awesome, thank you! I'll take a look tomorrow.

And I thought this was kinda funny esp after the previous rant on this thread, straight out of the Wiki re: Head tube preparation: "_Head tubes often have to be machined to acceptable tolerances, especially on metal frames after welding or brazing, as the heat can distort the tube dimensions_. *Some composite frames may also require it if glue resin or other contaminates are on the head tube faces*."


----------



## vladvm

Myrkur said:


> I have now seen a few of these fake-pinarellos and I have to say that they look incredibly lame.. With these chinese frames you have the opportunity to be really creative and do some unique stuff but yet some people choose to buy these pirated frames which just scream fake. I'm pretty sure that in my local club rides these would be nothing but a laughing-stock.
> 
> If someone asks you about the frame do you tell that it's a fake frame or pretend that it's not?


I think you should ride one first before you dismiss the frame. These frames are comparable to FP7 model - is that a laughing stock bike? I don't think so. 

Unless someone who own a real pinarello prince and actually rides these Chinese version and can actually say that the ride is just awful, then you may have a poin


----------



## qwertyuiop

When all said and done...this thread is priceless for people looking to buy/research these frames!
The ongoing argument is boring, change the record! 

I couldn't care less if you spend your free time with your toe up your ass, singing along to spice girls...So why do you care about other people buying these frames - Don't rise to the bait?!


In the words of my Forrest Gump - THATS ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT!




Myrkur said:


> I have now seen a few of these fake-pinarellos and I have to say that they look incredibly lame.. With these chinese frames you have the opportunity to be really creative and do some unique stuff but yet some people choose to buy these pirated frames which just scream fake. I'm pretty sure that in my local club rides these would be nothing but a laughing-stock.
> 
> If someone asks you about the frame do you tell that it's a fake frame or pretend that it's not?


Do you know what's even more lame? If you have a real Pinarello and I end up booming it past you on a replica (which I guarantee would happen)...OUCH! You may think it's lame, but to be honest, couldn't care less


----------



## jnotv

*My RFM106 finally arrived!*



cokex said:


> my bike from greatkeenbike
> 
> RFM106 ..



It has actually been a little over 3 weeks and my frame finally arrived.

I purchased it from Greatkeen, there RFM106 frame 58cm(1236 grams with water bottle screws)), fork(372 grams uncut) and headset(151 grams). It arrived completely bubble wrapped and undamaged. I requested no clearcoat which they sanded off. I am going to wet sand, decide on a little color and post pics when complete.

I have now received my winter project.


----------



## cokex

jnotv said:


> It has actually been a little over 3 weeks and my frame finally arrived.
> 
> I purchased it from Greatkeen, there RFM106 frame 58cm(1236 grams with water bottle screws)), fork(372 grams uncut) and headset(151 grams). It arrived completely bubble wrapped and undamaged. I requested no clearcoat which they sanded off. I am going to wet sand, decide on a little color and post pics when complete.
> 
> I have now received my winter project.


Very nice.. Next purchase will definately be no paint ..


----------



## independentmind

That second pic looks kinda weird, you either have a HUGE frame or a very small table, and fix the date on your camera 

Congrats though, please post when you complete the paint. You may want to check the bottom bracket area and headtube for issues.


----------



## Tri4fun73

JnoTv- how much was the new rig?


----------



## config

Well said. Isn't what matters is the rider? That guy who mentioned at their club rides that they would laugh at the guy with a Chinarello. I'd love to see that on a 9% grade climb. It's those kind of clubs that I can't stand. They're elitists and think/feel they're better than everyone else. I initially thought that of all roadies when I first got started (started out w/ a mountain bike, still do) but when I moved to Italy saw that the roadies were normal, humble people. 

Why are those types even reading these threads? They don't like the fact that everyone else can now purchase their own 'cool' bike and did it spending literally thousands less than they did. But for me, this doesn't even matter. The bike is just a tool - it's the engine that counts. Ride on...



qwertyuiop said:


> When all said and done...this thread is priceless for people looking to buy/research these frames!
> The ongoing argument is boring, change the record!
> 
> I couldn't care less if you spend your free time with your toe up your ass, singing along to spice girls...So why do you care about other people buying these frames - Don't rise to the bait?!
> 
> 
> In the words of my Forrest Gump - THATS ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know what's even more lame? If you have a real Pinarello and I end up booming it past you on a replica (which I guarantee would happen)...OUCH! You may think it's lame, but to be honest, couldn't care less


----------



## independentmind

config said:


> Well said. Isn't what matters is the rider? That guy who mentioned at their club rides that they would laugh at the guy with a Chinarello. I'd love to see that on a 9% grade climb. It's those kind of clubs that I can't stand. They're elitists and think/feel they're better than everyone else. I initially thought that of all roadies when I first got started (started out w/ a mountain bike, still do) but when I moved to Italy saw that the roadies were normal, humble people.
> 
> Why are those types even reading these threads? They don't like the fact that everyone else can now purchase their own 'cool' bike and did it spending literally thousands less than they did. But for me, this doesn't even matter. The bike is just a tool - it's the engine that counts. Ride on...


X2 There's nothing more humbling than getting smoked by a guy way over your age group at a tri, this particular rider was on a old steel frame. For some reason I still remember that, maybe it's because he was just that fast when everybody else was dropping like flies.

And I know what you mean about roadies, maybe it's because clubs aren't as prominent in North America? I grew up in Portugal and visit now and then, I can assure you that clubs are a dime a dozen, and most of those guys are still riding on steel.

I'm in Canada now and ride with a select group of people that are very open. I do on occasion run into a pack of Cervelo riders (very common brand in Toronto) that aren't exactly friendly. I don't find it upsetting, just funny (I wonder what it's like to be part of the collective?) These are probably the same people that cut me off at races and don't carry a spare (you know them, they're the guys you toss a tube to now and then.)


----------



## asherstash1

nice to see the thread back too the point, peoples bikes. mine is now fully built and nearly finished, its a pleasure to ride.pics when i find camera.


----------



## justind01

jnotv said:


> It has actually been a little over 3 weeks and my frame finally arrived.
> 
> I purchased it from Greatkeen, there RFM106 frame 58cm(1236 grams with water bottle screws)), fork(372 grams uncut) and headset(151 grams). It arrived completely bubble wrapped and undamaged. I requested no clearcoat which they sanded off. I am going to wet sand, decide on a little color and post pics when complete.
> 
> I have now received my winter project.


That's an awesome frame! I talked to Ms. Hu in November and they didn't have any 54cms that weren't painted and didn't have a leadtime. Maybe it's time to check back in with her. 

Justin


----------



## WheresWaldo

config said:


> Well said. Isn't what matters is the rider? That guy who mentioned at their club rides that they would laugh at the guy with a Chinarello. I'd love to see that on a 9% grade climb. It's those kind of clubs that I can't stand. They're elitists and think/feel they're better than everyone else. I initially thought that of all roadies when I first got started (started out w/ a mountain bike, still do) but when I moved to Italy saw that the roadies were normal, humble people.
> 
> Why are those types even reading these threads? They don't like the fact that everyone else can now purchase their own 'cool' bike and did it spending literally thousands less than they did. But for me, this doesn't even matter. The bike is just a tool - it's the engine that counts. Ride on...


There are some in a few groups around here that are elitist also. I have gotten snubbed riding my Pedal Force (Taiwan) as well as my genuine TST Titanium (Washington State, USA) frame. I have no idea of what they would say about my self painted even cheaper Chinese carbon bike.

Like you started to say: "It's a tool not a jewel!"


----------



## Myrkur

config said:


> They're elitists and think/feel they're better than everyone else.


I tell you, there is nothing elitist about dissing a frame that is a counterfeit. As there is nothing elitist about dissing a fake Rolex.


vladvm said:


> I think you should ride one first before you dismiss the frame. These frames are comparable to FP7 model - is that a laughing stock bike? I don't think so.


There are some of these unbranded carbon frames on our club rides and I do own one of them too. They're great! But the thing is, these unbranded frames don't pretend to be anything else than they are. But the fake Pinarello is about as lame as a fake Gucci bag.


config said:


> That guy who mentioned at their club rides that they would laugh at the guy with a Chinarello. I'd love to see that on a 9% grade climb. .


If you ride more you realize that it's not about the bike.


qwertyuiop said:


> Do you know what's even more lame? If you have a real Pinarello and I end up booming it past you on a replica (which I guarantee would happen)...OUCH! You may think it's lame, but to be honest, couldn't care less


If you ride more you realize that it's not about the bike.


WheresWaldo said:


> Like you started to say: "It's a tool not a jewel!"


Yes, that's right so why some people want their bikes to look like fake jewels?


----------



## Purt

Anyone had any experience with an fm107? Can't seem to find much info on it...


----------



## fogliettaz

Not sure if this is the right thread, but here goes. I have bought both a MTB & road fram from Jenny @ Hongfu and amd very pleased with them. I am thinking that I would like to upgrade my road wheels to 50mm carbon rims. 2 questions, 1, have any of you bought carbon rims from Jenny and if so are you pleased with them? 2, Clincher or Tubular?


----------



## Cycling for Cancer

fogliettaz said:


> Not sure if this is the right thread, but here goes. I have bought both a MTB & road fram from Jenny @ Hongfu and amd very pleased with them. I am thinking that I would like to upgrade my road wheels to 50mm carbon rims. 2 questions, 1, have any of you bought carbon rims from Jenny and if so are you pleased with them? 2, Clincher or Tubular?


This is the correct thread...for the feedback on the frames. Can you tell us what model number you got from Hongu? My bet is on the FM015. How long have you had it (them)?

Regarding wheels: I have no experience with chinese carbon rims/wheelsets, but there is another thread devoted entirely to wheels. I do have a question, though: why would you want 50mm rims for road use? I thought the skinnier rims (38mm?) were preferred (less aero, but less wind catching?).

Thanks!


----------



## christoph1980

shimagnolo said:


> my updated build..


you're bike looks amazing, which cables did you used? are these cables I link's? 

i am also a proud owner of an fm 015 (all white) now. And the bike should be light aprox 7 kg,s

so i am looking for parts  I will post my updates here

@ all, i want to use decals because the all white frame looks boring, how you guys protect the decals? Clearcoat? Hope somebody can help me.


Here are the pics of the frame


----------



## vladvm

Myrkur said:


> I tell you, there is nothing elitist about dissing a frame that is a counterfeit. As there is nothing elitist about dissing a fake Rolex.
> 
> There are some of these unbranded carbon frames on our club rides and I do own one of them too. They're great! But the thing is, these unbranded frames don't pretend to be anything else than they are. But the fake Pinarello is about as lame as a fake Gucci bag.
> 
> If you ride more you realize that it's not about the bike.
> 
> If you ride more you realize that it's not about the bike.
> 
> Yes, that's right so why some people want their bikes to look like fake jewels?


That's right it is all about the bike/ride. Decals mean nothing at all so if someone bought a pinarello knock off to experience the same awesome ride quality without the price tag, that person need not be mocked or laughed at and to do so is elitist. If the bike makes them ride more and pile on the mileage that's really great for them. And other people will see this and realize they do not have to break the bank to ride a fantastic bike so they do the same and purchase these unpainted carbon frames, they rideand enjoy it more and other riders see this and it goes on and on. I don't see anything wrong with that at all! I hope there will be a club exclusively for people who bought unpainted carbon frames who customized them. That should be a nice group to ride with, without elitist attitude towards othe cyclists.


----------



## Myrkur

vladvm said:


> That's right it is all about the bike/ride. Decals mean nothing at all so if someone bought a pinarello knock off to experience the same awesome ride quality without the price tag, that person need not be mocked or laughed at and to do so is elitist.


Yes but for crying out loud it's not the same as Pinarello. It's a frame that looks like Pinarello and has similar looking decals but it's not the same. It's a fake.

If someone wants to experience Rolex they don't buy some fake Rolex off the street. The person who buys a fake Rolex isn't interested of the quality but instead just wants to show that he has a Rolex(which he clearly doesn't). Same goes for fake Gucci bags and fake Pinarellos. I know that some Rolex-clones can be very convincing and actually work quite well but a fake is a fake.

I see nothing wrong with buying these frames unbranded or making custom paintjob for them. And as I said I own one of these frames too. But when you put there a fake brand name it gets kind of suspicious.


----------



## ms6073

Purt said:


> Anyone had any experience with an fm107? Can't seem to find much info on it...


That is a nice frame but I do not see any cable giudes/stops which has me wondering how the brake and shift cables get routed to the rear.


----------



## shimagnolo

christoph1980 said:


> you're bike looks amazing, which cables did you used? are these cables I link's?


thanks! 
yup..Alligator iLINK cables..


----------



## Cycling for Cancer

*Attention ISP frame owners! Short Seatmast??*

I have been debating whether to get the FM028 ISP. Since my focus is comfort and distance, I have been leaning away from the ISP (integrated seat post or "Seatmast") based on reports that the ISP makes the ride stiffer.

Trek has been working on an intermediate-length ISP with a traditional (shorty) seatpost, and they claim this gives the bike (seat) more vertical compliance (read: flex and comfort).

So is this something we can do with an ISP frame? I mean you have to cut the ISP anyway, so just cut it a bit short and use a short seatpost. This would also mean that you could put the small cutout in the seat tube at the front of the ISP (instead of at the back, where you see it all the time). (This is where the seatpost clamp is-the small cutout allows the tube to flex or compress as the clamp is tightened.) Putting this cutout in front prevents the seatpost from overly flexing.








So, you get the benefits of both the ISP (frame strength, stiffness) and the seatpost (comfort, adustability).

Can anyone point out flaws in this logic?


----------



## cxl98904

I purchased an Ebay frame to build because i have never built one from bare frame and piecing together the components that i want i did make a lot of mistakes and ran to the LBS a few times, but overall the experience is worth it. i love the creativity of paint and decals that some others have done w/ their chinese frames. The bike rides very nice, but i can't tell you if a Pinarello or Cervelo will ride any better but I am happy w/ the ride and really that's all that matters. Also the reality is the wife is happy that i did not spend 4K plus on a bike! It is addicting to build a bike for fun, I recently purchased a FM028 from Dengfu


----------



## vladvm

Myrkur said:


> Yes but for crying out loud it's not the same as Pinarello. It's a frame that looks like Pinarello and has similar looking decals but it's not the same. It's a fake.
> 
> If someone wants to experience Rolex they don't buy some fake Rolex off the street. The person who buys a fake Rolex isn't interested of the quality but instead just wants to show that he has a Rolex(which he clearly doesn't). Same goes for fake Gucci bags and fake Pinarellos. I know that some Rolex-clones can be very convincing and actually work quite well but a fake is a fake.
> 
> I see nothing wrong with buying these frames unbranded or making custom paintjob for them. And as I said I own one of these frames too. But when you put there a fake brand name it gets kind of suspicious.


Yeah decal is deceiving. But close your eyes and ride the chinarello frame. They ride amazing!


----------



## looigi

vladvm said:


> ...someone bought a pinarello knock off to experience the same awesome ride quality without the price tag....


So, do the knockoffs indeed perform the same as the genuine article? I thought the grade of materials and the way it was laid up were important factors in the strength and stiffness. Are they the same?

I haven't bought or put one of these together but it does look like a fun project. If I do, I wouldn't put Pinarello on it because it aint. I might put Pinarrelo on it though.


----------



## Andy STi

looigi said:


> If I do, I wouldn't put Pinarello on it because it aint. I might put Pinarrelo on it though.


:lol:


----------



## Myrkur

vladvm said:


> Yeah decal is deceiving. But close your eyes and ride the chinarello frame. They ride amazing!


You don't have to close your eyes in the first place if you just buy an unbranded carbon frame or design a paintjob of your own. There is absolutely nothing structurally better with the fake Pinarello when compared to regular unbranded carbon frames.


----------



## Mumblesmiler

Hi, I'm one of those long time lurkers who comes on has his say about these frames and then vanishes causing suspicious sideways glances from everyone  

I think anyone whose bought one of these frames ends up here one way or another as its just such a good resource so you can't be that suprised that you get a few strangers turning up.

I've had a few now so thought I'd give my view on them if I may, I started off with an FM004 frame which was very nice but a little unforgiving. I had it for over a year as my rainy day bike so living in Wales it did 6000+ miles in the year I owned it without missing a beat. It now belongs to a club mate and he's more than happy with it.

I've now had two FM0015 frames and they've been perfect for what I want them for and ride very nicely, I put just under 5000 miles on my first one and only sold it as a friend was willing to buy it off me for more than I paid for it and I'm always up for a new bike  

I'm the first to admit that sometimes your not getting a 'finished' product, but you've got to go into it realising that your buying as a trade customer at a little more than a large volume trade customer would pay, if you want perfection go elsewhere and spend 3 times as much.

I'm also not a fan of the replica or fake bikes as said previously it is a bit lame, on my first one the fm004 I had some spare Bianchi decals so swapped the letters around to spell Bi-china as I've always been a sucker for Celeste green on bare carbon  

Their not the greatest frames in the world but their far better than their £280 price tag suggests, I only joined to have my say as there's been a few negative comments about the quality recently and when your talking about a frame/fork/headset posted from China for £280 I don't really think you can complain about a snob of resin on a bearing cup  

I've had my say so I'll exit stage left never to be seen again


----------



## Surfr

Before you go Mumblesmiler, did you race the FM015? I'm planning to buy and build one any day now to race the Shrewsbury and Pembrey circuits and the west wales criterium series. Just wondering how suitable it would be for racing.


----------



## 0900baztiaan

Surfr said:


> Before you go Mumblesmiler, did you race the FM015? I'm planning to buy and build one any day now to race the Shrewsbury and Pembrey circuits and the west wales criterium series. Just wondering how suitable it would be for racing.


Check post 140: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=2880815.

So yeah, it must be suited for races!


----------



## vladvm

looigi said:


> So, do the knockoffs indeed perform the same as the genuine article? I thought the grade of materials and the way it was laid up were important factors in the strength and stiffness. Are they the same?
> 
> I haven't bought or put one of these together but it does look like a fun project. If I do, I wouldn't put Pinarello on it because it aint. I might put Pinarrelo on it though.


Sure rides very well. Maybe FP7's level. Just missing the paint.


----------



## Mumblesmiler

Surfr said:


> Before you go Mumblesmiler, did you race the FM015? I'm planning to buy and build one any day now to race the Shrewsbury and Pembrey circuits and the west wales criterium series. Just wondering how suitable it would be for racing.


Ironically I raced half the season last year on my FM015 as I'd smashed my Bottecchia up by running it over with my car, which if anyone is interested is a very effective way of doing it :cryin: 

If I wasn't getting such a good crash replacement deal I'd happily just carry on racing the Fm015 :thumbsup:


----------



## snippy

Myrkur said:


> ...fake frame or pretend that it's not?


Now this is a fake frame: http://tinyurl.com/yfe2dme

These are non-name brand or I guess you could say generic frames. There is a small difference


----------



## fab4

shimagnolo said:


> my updated build..


Good looking bike. Almost look like a Cervelo.


----------



## independentmind

Cycling for Cancer said:


> I have been debating whether to get the FM028 ISP. Since my focus is comfort and distance, I have been leaning away from the ISP (integrated seat post or "Seatmast") based on reports that the ISP makes the ride stiffer.
> 
> Trek has been working on an intermediate-length ISP with a traditional (shorty) seatpost, and they claim this gives the bike (seat) more vertical compliance (read: flex and comfort).
> 
> So is this something we can do with an ISP frame? I mean you have to cut the ISP anyway, so just cut it a bit short and use a short seatpost. This would also mean that you could put the small cutout in the seat tube at the front of the ISP (instead of at the back, where you see it all the time). (This is where the seatpost clamp is-the small cutout allows the tube to flex or compress as the clamp is tightened.) Putting this cutout in front prevents the seatpost from overly flexing.
> 
> So, you get the benefits of both the ISP (frame strength, stiffness) and the seatpost (comfort, adustability).
> 
> Can anyone point out flaws in this logic?


It wont work, unless you can find a seatpost that can fit INTO the cut ISP. You would have to find the inner diameter of the ISP before setting down this path.

Right now you are assuming that the ISP will accommodate a seatpost, my guess is that it will not, as-well, it wasn't designed to bare the force of one, so you may be asking for trouble.

Personally I love the look of the ISP frame. But then again I don't mind a stiff ride (I ride a CAAD9 that is really stiff.) If this is an issue for you, I would suggest getting the non ISP model and purchasing a carbon seatpost (which some people say soaks up some feedback from the road.)


----------



## independentmind

WheresWaldo said:


> There are some in a few groups around here that are elitist also. I have gotten snubbed riding my Pedal Force (Taiwan) as well as my genuine TST Titanium (Washington State, USA) frame. I have no idea of what they would say about my self painted even cheaper Chinese carbon bike.
> 
> Like you started to say: "It's a tool not a jewel!"


Pedal Force sells some nice looking carbon. There's a guy around here that rides one (RS2 I think?) and I covet that thing, their forks look really nice, probably ride well too (I've considered swapping out the stock one on my CAAD9 for one of those, probably lighter too.)

Heh I get snubbed riding my Caad also, but who cares, it all depends on the bike all the kids in the neighborhood are riding that summer anyways


----------



## skygodmatt

*Cable Guide*

Here's a tip: 

You'll love the cable guide. It fits right into the cable hole that is usually a little off on these frames. You can cut it or mold it with heat too. ---$8 on Ebay made for Cannondale BB30.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cannondale-Doub...Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item53e520eb6c


----------



## rruff

Cycling for Cancer said:


> The only read difference between the 50 and 52 will likely be how much seatpost is showing. Not much will be showing in either case (I have short legs to a normal torso). Top tube length is virtually the same, as are wheelbase etc


Check the headtube length... if the 52 is not too tall, I'd pick that one.


----------



## JGF62

"Right now you are assuming that the ISP will accommodate a seatpost, my guess is that it will not, as-well, it wasn't designed to bare the force of one, so you may be asking for trouble."

Why wouldnt an ISP accomodate a seatpost if you can find one to suit the diameter?
They are designed to withstand a small seatmast perched on top of the ISP bearing all the weight.
With a seatpost inside it gives even greater support & strength to the structure.

@cyclingforcancer: An ISP is designed to give a smoother ride, not harsher.


----------



## Duci

*Cyclocross disc*

The season is over and i'm already preparing for next season. This time i'd like to race to use disc-frames. 

Does anyone know which chinese reseller has carbon cyclocross disc frames (if possible disc only) in his stock oder has planed to release such a product?

Thanks a lot!


----------



## Surfr

0900baztiaan said:


> Check post 140: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=2880815.
> 
> So yeah, it must be suited for races!


That's a fair endorsement I think. Thanks


----------



## tdawg183

skygodmatt said:


> Here's a tip:
> 
> You'll love the cable guide. It fits right into the cable hole that is usually a little off on these frames. You can cut it or mold it with heat too. ---$8 on Ebay made for Cannondale BB30.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Cannondale-Doub...Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item53e520eb6c


Great find, I think a lot of people could use this. Thanks!

I'm not to the point of running my front derailleur cable yet but saw many posts ago of a few different options for threading the hole. What has everybody found that works best?


----------



## Jetmugg

JGF62 said:


> Why wouldnt an ISP accomodate a seatpost if you can find one to suit the diameter?
> They are designed to withstand a small seatmast perched on top of the ISP bearing all the weight.
> With a seatpost inside it gives even greater support & strength to the structure.


I don't think it's safe to assume that the inside diameter of an ISP would be sized or finished in a manner that would accomodate a standard seatpost. For ISP applications, the outside surface is the critical dimension. For traditional seatpost applications, it's the inside surface that is the critical dimension. If you cut an ISP open, you may very well find resin and CF cloth that is not laid up in a manner that will allow a traditional seatpost to be inserted.

SteveM.


----------



## WheresWaldo

independentmind said:


> Pedal Force sells some nice looking carbon. There's a guy around here that rides one (RS2 I think?) and I covet that thing, their forks look really nice, probably ride well too (I've considered swapping out the stock one on my CAAD9 for one of those, probably lighter too.)
> 
> Heh I get snubbed riding my Caad also, but who cares, it all depends on the bike all the kids in the neighborhood are riding that summer anyways


Both of my road Pedal Force frames use Alpha Q (R.I.P.







) forks. They are lighter and stiffer than the PF forks. My daughter has a PF fork on her Pedal Force. I at first had an Easton EC-90 SLX but was too heavy to ride it. It was very scary on off-camber curves on mountain descents. Not so the PF or Alpha-Q forks.

For most of these Chinese frames the only aftermarket option is really Enve (formerly Edge) forks as they require a taper fork. If your CAAD has a Slice Premium then keep it or replace with an Enve as it's the only really good option.


----------



## robpar

fab4 said:


> Good looking bike. Almost look like a Cervelo.


 Nice bike.
Not specific to your post, but I thought I'd go back to the original topic: chinese frames.
I can report on almost 2 years of use and have only one big issue. A few weeks ago i was descending at about 45-50 MPH and the bike started to shake violently (front end shimmying?). I mean, the front end was going one way and the rear was going in the opposite direction; I could feel it. It was very windy (heavy cross winds) and I have bladed spokes. I was lucky to be able to control the bike by pressing my knees on the top tube but it scared the heck out me... this has never happened on my TCR and this is the first time I've gone that fast on my chinese frame since it's really my off-day bike. Afterwards, i noticed that one of the side velcro straps on my saddle bag was totally unattached so it had been "swinging sideways" while I was descending, so it may triggered the shimmying but I don't know and i don't want to replicate the event. I also checked the head set and it was fine but I did find that my front wheel had a "little play" so I tightened the skewer even more. Now, i have doubts about the frame design but maybe I'm being too concerned since there were several factors at play.

Advice?


----------



## thefutureofamerica

I'm no mechanical engineer, but I think out-of-true wheels and loose skewers are more likely causes of speed wobble than your frame. I've had my TCR shimmy on me before, as well, and I agree that it's scary as all hell. 

If you're concerned, a good shop should be able to check your frame's alignment for you, but that loose skewer you mentioned is the likely culprit. Glad you're still in one piece.


----------



## paterberg

Here are a few photographs of my 3K clear coated FM015. I bought this frame, and also the 38mm carbon tubular wheels, from carbonzone on ebay who sell it as a RB003. My contact with carbonzone was Echo and I found this seller to be extremely communicative and efficient and I have no complaints at all regarding the transactions. The frame and the wheels were purchased as separate deals and on both occasions the goods arrived undamaged from China to Ireland in just over a week. Apart from a couple of minor issues the quality of both the frame and the wheels was on a par with kit costing considerably more. There was a little surplus glue in the lower crown race of the frame which was easily sanded down in 10 minutes and the wheels needed to be slightly re-dished – something commonly encountered in even high end machine built wheels. 

Decals were supplied by Macro Pollo in Brazil and I covered them with VentureShield for a little added protection. As photographed the bike weighs 15.85lbs although, due to the sh1t weather, I haven’t had a chance to road test the bike yet. However in April this bike is set to accompany me on my annual trip to the Belgium cobbles (hence the 14S) and that should settle any queries regarding the quality of these Chinese carbon frames. Obviously I’ll not be using the carbon wheelset on that occasion! To be honest having built and thoroughly examined this frameset I’m not expecting there to be any problems.


----------



## zender

In case anyone needs more fuel on the fire while trying to decide on ordering these frames, here's a rundown on my three builds (so far, will need more garage space, but I'm thinking of building one of these as a single speed):

- FM012: TT frame/ISP. via carbonzone ebay
Assembly and "defects": Internal cable routing for shifters crossed in the downtube. Supplied seatpost was bulky and heavy. External 12K weave with some imperfections near bb and headtube. No other issues.
Ride: Stiff and pretty harsh, with disc rear and 50mm carbon front, PlanetX TT bars.
This frame turned out to be a bit too long to get as forward as I wanted to so I sold it. 

- FM018: TT frame non-ISP from Dengfu not ebay, custom paint
Assembly and "defects": The rear brake mounts near the bottom bracket and the cable routing is not optimal. A design with a cable stop bolted to the frame would solve this problem. I went with the Simkins egg brake which works adequately. Completely vertical seatpost makes setting up seat position a breeze. No other issues.
Ride: Less harsh than FM012 with same wheels/bars. Fairly porky and you can feel it when trying to jump an attack out of the saddle (in case you want to build this up in a non-TT config).

-FM238 (pedalforce RS3): nonISP from carbonzone ebay
Assembly and "defects": Supplied BB cable guide did not line up with the hole for the front derailleur. However, a Shimano cable guide lines up. No other issues.
Ride: Very stiff in the bottom bracket and rear stays. High frequency vibrations seem a bit more noticeable than on my Ti bike (same saddle, wheels and tires but different post, bars & stem). Longish top-tube for size. Also a bit porky (3.5 lb frame+fork). Very stable up to 40mph (top speed so far). Handling is crisp.

None of the frames required redrilling, enlarging holes or removal of resin anywhere. The supplied no-name brand headsets fit perfectly.
All frames arrived when promised, well packaged with nothing missing. The FM238 actually included some bits I wasn't expecting (BB30 adapter, barrel adjusters)


----------



## Cycling for Cancer

Jetmugg said:


> I don't think it's safe to assume that the inside diameter of an ISP would be sized or finished in a manner that would accomodate a standard seatpost. For ISP applications, the outside surface is the critical dimension. For traditional seatpost applications, it's the inside surface that is the critical dimension. If you cut an ISP open, you may very well find resin and CF cloth that is not laid up in a manner that will allow a traditional seatpost to be inserted.
> 
> SteveM.


Great feedback! So awesome to have a second brain (this forum!).
Still, the question remains, can the ISP be modified to accept a short seatpost?
Anyone with and ISP care to chime in? Was there resin/cloth inside?

Now for specifics: the diagram for FM028 and FM015 show a nominal seat tube diameter of 37, but we know that a seat post clamp or FD clamp of 34.9 will work. The drawing also specifies the inside diameter for seat post tube of 31.6, but that spec is missing from the only drawing I have (FM015 ISP). Knowing the chinese, if the spec is not on the drawing, it is not in the finished product. 

If the ISP is rough, could we convince china to change the design, so the ISP could be cut down and accept a seatpost (in case of resale, for example-this would add value to the product, don't you think?).

My conclusion is that although a seatpost might fit, it is not reasonable to expect it to. I have placed this question to Dengfu, but I have yet to get an answer.


----------



## looigi

zender said:


> - FM012: TT frame/ISP. via carbonzone ebay
> Assembly and "defects": Internal cable routing for shifters crossed in the downtube.


Is this a defect? Current Trek Madone 6s are set up this way. The RD shift cable from the right shifter enters the left side of the down tube and crosses over. The FD cable from the left shifter enters the right side of the down tube and crosses over inside.


----------



## CabDoctor

Has anyone had any experience with this frame? I'm seeing it more and more on ebay and apparently it comes in a size 46.5 about the size I'm looking for.


----------



## zender

looigi said:


> Is this a defect? Current Trek Madone 6s are set up this way. The RD shift cable from the right shifter enters the left side of the down tube and crosses over. The FD cable from the left shifter enters the right side of the down tube and crosses over inside.


That's why I used the "quotes" around defect. It was just unexpected and easily solved by routing the cables from the cockpit to the opposite side.


----------



## qwertyuiop

Does anyone have an ebay link or something for:

Carbon steeer expander / extender
+
Sealed headset bearings - 1-1/8" Up / 1-1/4" Down

??


----------



## beston

I do believe that this is the same mould / frame as the new Planet X TT bike (the Exocet). If I am in fact right, there should be at least a few reviews of the Exocet out there.

https://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/ZXFRPXEX/planet-x-exocet-frame




CabDoctor said:


> Has anyone had any experience with this frame? I'm seeing it more and more on ebay and apparently it comes in a size 46.5 about the size I'm looking for.


----------



## looigi

zender said:


> That's why I used the "quotes" around defect. It was just unexpected and easily solved by routing the cables from the cockpit to the opposite side.



OK. Perhaps for consistency, you should also put "quotes" around solved then?


----------



## stevesbike

beston said:


> I do believe that this is the same mould / frame as the new Planet X TT bike (the Exocet). If I am in fact right, there should be at least a few reviews of the Exocet out there.
> 
> http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/ZXFRPXEX/planet-x-exocet-frame


I looked at it and tried to do some quick stack/reach calculations. It has way too long headtube in my opinion, limited size in terms of max seatpost, so would be impossible for me to get low enough on it. I'd check carefully that you can get a good fit on it - slowtwitch forums might have more on sizing/fit


----------



## beston

stevesbike said:


> I looked at it and tried to do some quick stack/reach calculations. It has way too long headtube in my opinion, limited size in terms of max seatpost, so would be impossible for me to get low enough on it. I'd check carefully that you can get a good fit on it - slowtwitch forums might have more on sizing/fit


Here's a thread on Slowtwitch that compares the stack and reach (and other specs) of the Exocet to the Cervelo P2. It looks like the Exocet runs a little on the 'large' side of sizing. For example, I would take a 54 P2, but choose a small Exocet instead of the medium

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/Slowtwi...um_F1/Planet_X_Exocet_VS_Cervelo_P2_P2817598/


----------



## speedyrooster

Curious, has anyone purchased a complete bike from China? Is it safe and are they legit, decent product? Not finding any info, good or bad

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/399104964/2011_newest_giant_carbon_bike.html


----------



## beston

speedyrooster said:


> Curious, has anyone purchased a complete bike from China? Is it safe and are they legit, decent product? Not finding any info, good or bad
> 
> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/399104964/2011_newest_giant_carbon_bike.html


A complete Di2 equipped Giant with Zipp 404 wheels for $300-$800. Doesn't sound legit to me. But they do accept Western Union money transfers! ... Oh wait, that's a bad thing too.


----------



## stevesbike

speedyrooster said:


> Curious, has anyone purchased a complete bike from China? Is it safe and are they legit, decent product? Not finding any info, good or bad
> 
> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/399104964/2011_newest_giant_carbon_bike.html


downside is it's a foldable, front suspension Giant with 22 inch wheels! Upside is it's the new Di2 with 24 gears!


----------



## cokex

stevesbike said:


> downside is it's a foldable, front suspension Giant with 22 inch wheels! Upside is it's the new Di2 with 24 gears!


There are lots of scammers on alibaba, if its too good to be true then it probably is. You can always try, but make sure you use paypal so you can atleast try and get your money back.


----------



## zender

stevesbike said:


> downside is it's a foldable, front suspension Giant with 22 inch wheels! Upside is it's the new Di2 with 24 gears!


It also has a 60 day return policy! You can return whatever it is they send you, on your dime do doubt, within 60 days. I suspect you won't get any of your money back, but hey it's a return policy, isn't it?


----------



## asherstash1

tdawg183 said:


> Great find, I think a lot of people could use this. Thanks!
> 
> I'm not to the point of running my front derailleur cable yet but saw many posts ago of a few different options for threading the hole. What has everybody found that works best?


personally the cable guide on mine ran almost perfectley to hole in BB for front der, but not quite and the cable pull wasnt perfectley smooth with bit of grinding, was fine for temp but have just re-run it through a section on internal cable sleeve where its inside BB. its much smoother now and doesnt contact carbon at all.


----------



## red elvis

skygodmatt said:


> Ebay Seller: Carbonzone
> 
> 58cm FM028 BB30 design.
> 
> I did make sure to let him know that I did NOT want to see the carbon weave. I asked him to put just enough matte paint to hide the 3k weave but I didn't want extra to keep it as light as possible. There is no clear on top. That's why I buffed it just a little bit.
> I figured I wanted to get my own headset and clamp. Very happy with the FSA. Fits like a glove.
> He is really fast with email.
> 
> I will weight it tomorrow.


i'm looking forward to see your new bike when it's all done. :thumbsup: .


----------



## carelgrundlingh

Just got a FM028 and FM018 from greatkeen yesterday. Happiness....
I semi-assembled everything, just enough to make it look like a bike, wheels, bars etc. The FM028 looks sweet...but...the FM018's front wheel misalign in the forks.... 




























The reason being that the right hand dropout has been cut 3mm too deep   
*THIS IS WHAT YOU GET WHEN ORDERING FROM CHINA....YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR ETC ETC*.....I can hear you alreay!! 

So.... I Skyped Mina at Greatkeen, she asked for some pics as description....got back to me today, said they're shipping out a new one today, no charge, no sending back the old one first etc etc....PROBLEM, NO PROBLEM....Happiness again!

So they actually DO offer better service than my LBS! :thumbsup:


----------



## carelgrundlingh

Why do my pics duplicate???? Sorry!


----------



## skygodmatt

red elvis said:


> i'm looking forward to see your new bike when it's all done. :thumbsup: .


Hey thanks,

That will be a while.. I stripped it and sanded down the frame. I am looking at different paint colors. This Chinese frame is going to be a 13 pound single speed beater bike--as I won't take it in a race environment. It should make a fun coffee shop toy...and cheap too. Prob. put a 53x18 gear. I am thinking about a Parlee paint scheme.
( see photo- it's not mine )
I promised myself I wouldn't post negative stuff about the quality control of the China stuff...trying to keep out of the dark side. 

I sure miss the good old days when bikes were made by artisans in Italy and they were affordable. We had a level playing field back then.


----------



## carelgrundlingh

Dbl post.....looks like i'm doing everything twice today....


----------



## paterberg

skygodmatt said:


> Hey thanks,
> 
> That will be a while.. I stripped it and sanded down the frame. I am looking at different paint colors. This Chinese frame is going to be a 13 pound single speed beater bike--as I won't take it in a race environment. It should make a fun coffee shop toy...and cheap too. Prob. put a 53x18 gear. I am thinking about a Parlee paint scheme.
> ( see photo- it's not mine )
> I promised myself I wouldn't post negative stuff about the quality control of the China stuff...trying to keep out of the dark side.
> 
> I sure miss the good old days when bikes were made by artisans in Italy and they were affordable. We had a level playing field back then.


Why won't you use the Chinese frame in a "race environment"? If I recall correctly the only "issue" you had with your frame was a little glue in the lower crown race which had you running off in a panic to your local bike shop. I had a similar "issue" with my FM015 - it took less than 10 minutes to sort and, as I mentioned in a previous post, I'll be confident enough to use my Chinese frame on the Belgium cobbles this coming spring. You need to stop these exaggerations kiddo - man up and get a grip on reality.


----------



## stevesbike

paterberg said:


> Why won't you use the Chinese frame in a "race environment"? If I recall correctly the only "issue" you had with your frame was a little glue in the lower crown race which had you running off in a panic to your local bike shop. I had a similar "issue" with my FM015 - it took less than 10 minutes to sort and, as I mentioned in a previous post, I'll be confident enough to use my Chinese frame on the Belgium cobbles this coming spring. You need to stop these exaggerations kiddo - man up and get a grip on reality.


+1, besides you don't know what you're talking about re the 'good old days of artisan Italian frames'. Many of these frames arrived misaligned and had to spend a night on an alignment table. Sure, the lugwork may have been pretty but the frames were not technically within spec. Affordable? Really - I guess you don't remember the huge premium cost of Italian steel frames back in the day...


----------



## robdamanii

skygodmatt said:


> Hey thanks,
> 
> That will be a while.. I stripped it and sanded down the frame. I am looking at different paint colors. This Chinese frame is going to be a 13 pound single speed beater bike--as I won't take it in a race environment. It should make a fun coffee shop toy...and cheap too. Prob. put a 53x18 gear. I am thinking about a Parlee paint scheme.
> ( see photo- it's not mine )
> I promised myself I wouldn't post negative stuff about the quality control of the China stuff...trying to keep out of the dark side.
> 
> I sure miss the good old days when bikes were made by artisans in Italy and they were affordable. We had a level playing field back then.


Staying out of it too, but my god...that Parlee is just...

It's a beautiful thing. I have a tear in my eye...


----------



## Crawf

Just grind out the dropout a mm at a time and assuming theres enough room at the base of the crown so the tyre wont rub. The pedantic's wills say otherwise, but it will be fine if done correctly and carefully. You'll have a spare second fork then, nothing to lose!


----------



## jermso

shoddy quality control from the mainland.

thx for the pix.


----------



## LarsEjaas

CabDoctor said:


> Has anyone had any experience with this frame? I'm seeing it more and more on ebay and apparently it comes in a size 46.5 about the size I'm looking for.


I have one of these waiting at customs here in Denmark: Should be at my house in a few days...
I won't be able to comment on how it rides until spring sometime, but you might PM in a week or so: I can comment on quality of paint, rear wheel clearance (my biggest concern, should be a bit tight) etc.

Mine was painted mate black for that stealth look.


----------



## beston

LarsEjaas said:


> I have one of these waiting at customs here in Denmark: Should be at my house in a few days...
> I won't be able to comment on how it rides until spring sometime, but you might PM in a week or so: I can comment on quality of paint, rear wheel clearance (my biggest concern, should be a bit tight) etc.
> 
> Mine was painted mate black for that stealth look.


I'm really interested in this TT frame (This is the FM021 frame, right?). Can you tell us a little more about who / where you bought it from and how much you paid for it? 

Keep us updated with the build of the bike too! 

Re: Rear wheel clearance. If this is the same frame as the Planet X Exocet, the tire clearance will be VERY tight. From what I've heard, I don't even think a 23mm tire will provide 'adequate' clearance from the chain stays.


----------



## LarsEjaas

beston said:


> I'm really interested in this TT frame (This is the FM021 frame, right?). Can you tell us a little more about who / where you bought it from and how much you paid for it?
> 
> Keep us updated with the build of the bike too!
> 
> Re: Rear wheel clearance. If this is the same frame as the Planet X Exocet, the tire clearance will be VERY tight. From what I've heard, I don't even think a 23mm tire will provide 'adequate' clearance from the chain stays.


Bought it from Loice at Gotobike - they call it TT233 (but it is produced around same mould as Exocet - not sure about fibers and lay up is identical). 
I think the price will depend on paint/no paint and where you want it to get shipped. 
They couldn't deliver it with UD wave finish in the next couple of months - but I didn't really care as I wanted it painted anyway.
The seatpost was however, not painted (I was afraid it would get easily scratched and Loice had the same concerns - so this will be 3K Carbon with clearcoat).


----------



## CabDoctor

I really want one of those TT233 in UD. I really really hope they aren't that expensive


----------



## CabDoctor

I just fired off an email to gotobikes. Now I need to find a decent set of all-carbon aerobars


----------



## cokex

That off center wheel makes me laugh .. Great service from greatkeen !


----------



## LarsEjaas

CabDoctor said:


> I just fired off an email to gotobikes. Now I need to find a decent set of all-carbon aerobars


Maybe the 3T Mistral or Brezza depending on how agressive you want the setup. Technically not a full carbon aerobar, but seems like a good bar if you are on a budget. I'll get a set of Mistral's for sure


----------



## red elvis

$1700 (w/ labor incl) is the amount i'm about to spend for a tcr frameset. this means that i only have four options:
1. sell my aluminum defy and buy a new defy advanced for the same amount.
2. keep my defy and upgrade my wheelset and components (ksyrium elite and ultegras).
3. buy a chinese carbon frameset on ebay.
4. do nothing, keep riding and save my money for repairs and replacement parts.


----------



## stevesbike

CabDoctor said:


> I really want one of those TT233 in UD. I really really hope they aren't that expensive


be careful of sizing - it fits on the very large side of things, I think. I ride a 59cm top tube road frame, but would take a M on this frame to get the proper aero setup. The stack/reach of the M is 523/424, which is about the same as a 2009 XL transition.


----------



## CabDoctor

hmmm I'll have to look more seriously into that. Thanks for the heads up. One of the things that attracted me the most is that it came in a 46cm. I ride a 52cm SuperSix and could stand to get a bit lower. It looks like the stack on the TT233 would be a cm under my Super6 which would be AWESOME. Seems like there's a huge shortage of TT frames for us smaller flexible racers


----------



## petepeterson

Awesome to see that service from dengfu/greatkeen/mina.I am going to be ordering from mina soon and this kind of service warms my cockles.

Definitely grind that fork down and have a spare!


----------



## Purt

Nah couldn't be....


----------



## ms6073

Who knows, but that frame with the steal graphics sure looks a lot like some we have seen in this thread doesn't it?


----------



## zender

asherstash1 said:


> personally the cable guide on mine ran almost perfectley to hole in BB for front der, but not quite and the cable pull wasnt perfectley smooth with bit of grinding, was fine for temp but have just re-run it through a section on internal cable sleeve where its inside BB. its much smoother now and doesnt contact carbon at all.


I tried to do this too, but the inner plastic liner from a shifter cable would not fit in the hole in the frame and there is no way I'm enlarging that hole. Perhaps different brand cable housings have thinner diameter inner liners? (This is an SIS shifter housing with parallel wires, not spiral brake housing).


----------



## Vee

Purt said:


> Nah couldn't be....


Did that picture come from anywhere specific? I see it sits on the livestrong.com servers. Is there an article attached to it or anything?


----------



## 4400

*Just take a look at the seat post collar*

It's a Madone for sure.


----------



## Vee

4400 said:


> It's a Madone for sure.


True. I found the picture on the Team Radioshack site. The caption says, "Lance with his black on black Trek Madone 6.9."


----------



## barrygxnz

skygodmatt said:


> Ebay Seller: Carbonzone
> 
> 58cm FM028 BB30 design.
> 
> I did make sure to let him know that I did NOT want to see the carbon weave. I asked him to put just enough matte paint to hide the 3k weave but I didn't want extra to keep it as light as possible. There is no clear on top. That's why I buffed it just a little bit.
> I figured I wanted to get my own headset and clamp. Very happy with the FSA. Fits like a glove.
> He is really fast with email.
> 
> I will weight it tomorrow.


Which model FSA headset? And is it 1 1/8 - 1 1/2?

Cheers
Barry


----------



## CabDoctor

beston said:


> I'm really interested in this TT frame (This is the FM021 frame, right?). Can you tell us a little more about who / where you bought it from and how much you paid for it?
> 
> Keep us updated with the build of the bike too!
> 
> Re: Rear wheel clearance. If this is the same frame as the Planet X Exocet, the tire clearance will be VERY tight. From what I've heard, I don't even think a 23mm tire will provide 'adequate' clearance from the chain stays.



So I just got an email back from Gotobikes.

Thanks for your mail.
Pricelist attached,pls check.
TT233:USD700/frame,fork,seat post,headset 3K for sample,USD640/ set when quantity more than 10 sets.
Shipping fee for one set will cost USD125 by EMS to USA.
Geometry attached,pls check which size do you need?
We have size 461mm and 502mm in stock now.
Our next stock will be ready soon.
We accept paypal,bank transfer and western union,which way do you prefer?
Best regards!
Cherry

So there we go.


----------



## LarsEjaas

CabDoctor said:


> So I just got an email back from Gotobikes.
> 
> Thanks for your mail.
> Pricelist attached,pls check.
> TT233:USD700/frame,fork,seat post,headset 3K for sample,USD640/ set when quantity more than 10 sets.
> Shipping fee for one set will cost USD125 by EMS to USA.
> Geometry attached,pls check which size do you need?
> We have size 461mm and 502mm in stock now.
> Our next stock will be ready soon.
> We accept paypal,bank transfer and western union,which way do you prefer?
> Best regards!
> Cherry
> 
> So there we go.


Just go ahead and order then  
I think the 481 mm. frames reach is just right for me, but still a little unsure about stack. I am going to slam it ALL the way to the bottom with no spacers and use 3T Mistral aerobars that are quite aggressive. If that turns out wrong I might turn to this -17 degree stem:


----------



## independentmind

JGF62 said:


> "Right now you are assuming that the ISP will accommodate a seatpost, my guess is that it will not, as-well, it wasn't designed to bare the force of one, so you may be asking for trouble."
> 
> Why wouldnt an ISP accomodate a seatpost if you can find one to suit the diameter?
> They are designed to withstand a small seatmast perched on top of the ISP bearing all the weight.
> With a seatpost inside it gives even greater support & strength to the structure.
> 
> @cyclingforcancer: An ISP is designed to give a smoother ride, not harsher.


Read my post, that's exactly what I said:

"It wont work, *unless you can find a seatpost that can fit INTO the cut ISP*"


----------



## independentmind

WheresWaldo said:


> Both of my road Pedal Force frames use Alpha Q (R.I.P.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) forks. They are lighter and stiffer than the PF forks. My daughter has a PF fork on her Pedal Force. I at first had an Easton EC-90 SLX but was too heavy to ride it. It was very scary on off-camber curves on mountain descents. Not so the PF or Alpha-Q forks.
> 
> For most of these Chinese frames the only aftermarket option is really Enve (formerly Edge) forks as they require a taper fork. If your CAAD has a Slice Premium then keep it or replace with an Enve as it's the only really good option.


Hey, thanks for the info!

It actually came with an Ultra fork (alloy steerer, very beefy legs just like my first girlfriend) but I'm actually going to check out the Enve, and still considering the PF (carbon steerer).

I've often thought about replacing the Ultra with a Chinese aftermarket road fork (the one that came with my Chinese TT frame is surprisingly light.) No idea how their road forks ride though.


----------



## independentmind

carelgrundlingh said:


> Just got a FM028 and FM018 from greatkeen yesterday. Happiness....
> I semi-assembled everything, just enough to make it look like a bike, wheels, bars etc. The FM028 looks sweet...but...the FM018's front wheel misalign in the forks....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reason being that the right hand dropout has been cut 3mm too deep
> *THIS IS WHAT YOU GET WHEN ORDERING FROM CHINA....YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR ETC ETC*.....I can hear you alreay!!
> 
> So.... I Skyped Mina at Greatkeen, she asked for some pics as description....got back to me today, said they're shipping out a new one today, no charge, no sending back the old one first etc etc....PROBLEM, NO PROBLEM....Happiness again!
> 
> So they actually DO offer better service than my LBS! :thumbsup:



Nice, looks like you got lucky with the service.
On a side note, the fork issue was a problem that a few people on here had just over a year ago. You're the first one I've seen with this issue in a long while.

Old stock maybe?


----------



## beston

CabDoctor said:


> So I just got an email back from Gotobikes....
> TT233:USD700/frame,fork,seat post,headset 3K for sample,USD640/ set when quantity more than 10 sets....
> Cherry


Thanks for that! I love the name "Cherry". 

There's another TT frame on gotobikes (WS01) that seems really interesting too.
https://www.gotobike.com.cn/gs_detail.asp?id=500392&nowmenuid=500006&previd=500027

It's got a P3 'kind-of-look' (whereas the TT233 reminds me of the P2 / Slice) to it and it would appear as though the cables are routed internally, behind the stem.


----------



## skygodmatt

red elvis said:


> $1700 (w/ labor incl) is the amount i'm about to spend for a tcr frameset. this means that i only have four options:
> 1. sell my aluminum defy and buy a new defy advanced for the same amount.
> 2. keep my defy and upgrade my wheelset and components (ksyrium elite and ultegras).
> 3. buy a chinese carbon frameset on ebay.
> 4. do nothing, keep riding and save my money for repairs and replacement parts.


Why would you spend $1700 when full retail for the frameset is $1350?


----------



## CabDoctor

beston said:


> Thanks for that! I love the name "Cherry".
> 
> There's another TT frame on gotobikes (WS01) that seems really interesting too.
> https://www.gotobike.com.cn/gs_detail.asp?id=500392&nowmenuid=500006&previd=500027
> 
> It's got a P3 'kind-of-look' (whereas the TT233 reminds me of the P2 / Slice) to it and it would appear as though the cables are routed internally, behind the stem.


Yeah I would really like to see a pic of that one with wheels


----------



## bevo21

paterberg said:


> Here are a few photographs of my 3K clear coated FM015. I bought this frame, and also the 38mm carbon tubular wheels, from carbonzone on ebay who sell it as a RB003. My contact with carbonzone was Echo and I found this seller to be extremely communicative and efficient and I have no complaints at all regarding the transactions. The frame and the wheels were purchased as separate deals and on both occasions the goods arrived undamaged from China to Ireland in just over a week. Apart from a couple of minor issues the quality of both the frame and the wheels was on a par with kit costing considerably more. There was a little surplus glue in the lower crown race of the frame which was easily sanded down in 10 minutes and the wheels needed to be slightly re-dished – something commonly encountered in even high end machine built wheels.
> 
> Decals were supplied by Macro Pollo in Brazil and I covered them with VentureShield for a little added protection. As photographed the bike weighs 15.85lbs although, due to the sh1t weather, I haven’t had a chance to road test the bike yet. However in April this bike is set to accompany me on my annual trip to the Belgium cobbles (hence the 14S) and that should settle any queries regarding the quality of these Chinese carbon frames.




Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Be sure the tire is properly fit before you go to the Belgium cobblestones.
Compliments for your beautyfull bike. ISP looks better, that's for sure.


----------



## beston

CabDoctor said:


> Yeah I would really like to see a pic of that one with wheels


Well, not what you probably really wanted to see, but about as close as we're gonna get for now.


----------



## DanTourino

*LOVE Craig's List!*

Got a ridiculous deal from someone on CL. Offer him $800 and he took it! It's an ISP Chinese full carbon frame with a tapered head tube, full dura ace 7800, rithchey WCS cocpit and Torelli Bormio Wheel set.


----------



## Purt

You lucky bastard!


----------



## red elvis

skygodmatt said:


> Why would you spend $1700 when full retail for the frameset is $1350?


really? i didnt know that. i guess that one he was trying to sell me is the tce advance sl. i'll keep looking then. thanks.


----------



## Guymk

DanTourino said:


> Got a ridiculous deal from someone on CL. Offer him $800 and he took it! It's an ISP Chinese full carbon frame with a tapered head tube, full dura ace 7800, rithchey WCS cocpit and Torelli Bormio Wheel set.


$800 for the whole bike?!?!? Nice! A good condition used 7800 group sells for about $800 on ebay. Man thats the steal of the year.


----------



## justind01

*New FM001*

I received the FM001 today that I ordered from Tony at Dengfu on December 11. I had Dengfu custom paint it with a design that was adapted from a Ridley paint scheme. It turned out really well and I'm incredibly pleased with the quality of the bike and finish. Best of all, the bike is for my partner and he is thrilled with it. Everyone wins!

Here are two crappy iPhone pics I took of the frame/fork. More pics to come as it's built up.


















Frame weight:
Claimed: 1080g
Actual: 1180g

Fork weight (uncut):
Claimed: 385g
Actual: 420g

Pricing:
FM001 - $320
FO002 - $60
Headset - $15
SP003 Seatpost - $30
Extra Derailleur Hanger - $2
Shipping - $80
Paypal - $18
Total: $525

Does anyone have any instructions on how to install this Neco headset? I'm debating whether I should just take it into the LBS to get the steerer cut and the headset installed instead of trying it myself.


----------



## Fitzm

I was close to buying a 2010 Cervelo R3 frameset (and might still) but having read through a number of the posts on this forum about Chinese frames I have to ask has any one found a Cervelo R3 like frame from China?

As I suspect the answer is no.... of the frames available from China which if any is the most Cervelo-like?

My current ride is a Cervelo S1 and I'd like to get a decent carbon frame but I read and I'm told that my S1 is as good as any above average carbon frame. So I'd have to go high end carbon to appreciate the difference?

Which would people say is the best carbon frame available from China?


----------



## Spursrider

BH climber said:


> This is my new fram from:WWW.TOPRIDETEK.COM
> But Im a little disapointed with the weigt, 1150g fram+fork 390g. Fram is in size L


I received mine recently. Frame & fork in UDM finish. I bought the integrated handlebar and seatpost as well but both were only available in 3K finish.

Currently sourcing for components to build it up.


----------



## slomustang

Fitzm said:


> I was close to buying a 2010 Cervelo R3 frameset (and might still) but having read through a number of the posts on this forum about Chinese frames I have to ask has any one found a Cervelo R3 like frame from China?
> 
> ...


I would guess the FM015 frame would be similar to the R3. It has the similar thin seat stays. I will admit to being lazy to compare the geometries.


----------



## Fitzm

slomustang said:


> I will admit to being lazy to compare the geometries.


As will I, I too have been lazy. But my question wasn't so much about geometry more about 'quality'. The 'quality' of the Cervelo S1 is well recognised and I'm told a quality Alu frame is better than an average carbon frame.

When I buy my first carbon frame I want to ensure it's 'quality' (high end) frame. :thumbsup:


----------



## paterberg

bevo21 said:


> Uploaded with ImageShack.us
> 
> 
> Be sure the tire is properly fit before you go to the Belgium cobblestones.
> Compliments for your beautyfull bike. ISP looks better, that's for sure.


Many thanks for that - I must say I'm very well pleased with the bike. And I definitely won't be using the carbon wheels on the cobbles!! I have a nice pair of hand-built Mavic Open Pros on Hope Pro hubs laced with Sapim Laser spokes (x3 32/32) and shod with Vittoria Pave tyres which should do the job. Thanks again.


----------



## PBrooks

*Tune cappy 38.3 on fm028*

some have asked for pics when cappy came, 74g option
side view










front view with tuned trigon saddle










hope this works
PBrooks


----------



## ColoRoadie

That was an odd feeling. I looked at that saddle..and my nuts climbed into my torso and took refuge inside my ribcage. I got an internal memo that said they would not come out until I stopped looking at that picture. Damn man....that looks like it hurts. The cap looks great though.


----------



## paterberg

Spursrider said:


> I received mine recently. Frame & fork in UDM finish. I bought the integrated handlebar and seatpost as well but both were only available in 3K finish.
> 
> Currently sourcing for components to build it up.


Is the seatpost 31.6mm and do you have a weight for it? Good looking frame BTW. Thanks.


----------



## zender

ColoRoadie said:


> That was an odd feeling. I looked at that saddle..and my nuts climbed into my torso and took refuge inside my ribcage. I got an internal memo that said they would not come out until I stopped looking at that picture. Damn man....that looks like it hurts. The cap looks great though.


No doubt! That saddle looks like it was designed as a torture instrument. Ouch..


----------



## PBrooks

ha, yeah it does look painful, and the front view looks like a skull or punisher. But, with a good pair of bike shorts no problem.


----------



## Carabo

Spursrider said:


> I received mine recently. Frame & fork in UDM finish. I bought the integrated handlebar and seatpost as well but both were only available in 3K finish.
> 
> Currently sourcing for components to build it up.


Nice! Seems a bunch of frames were shipped at the same time by them. Mine's in the right country but still with customs...

What size is your frame?


----------



## Jetmugg

I'd like to try a "saddle" like that - where did you get it?

SM


----------



## Spursrider

Carabo said:


> Nice! Seems a bunch of frames were shipped at the same time by them. Mine's in the right country but still with customs...
> 
> What size is your frame?


My frame size is 462mm. I don't have a scale to check the weight at the moment. 

I hope the customs don't give you problems. In my country, bike frames and parts get taxed 25% :mad2:


----------



## PBrooks

Jetmugg said:


> I'd like to try a "saddle" like that - where did you get it?
> 
> SM



Jetmugg, its a Trigon VCS02AC, I got mine in Taiwan but they are available online for 115 -- 130 something like that. It comes with pads and mine weighed 107. The pads were just velcroed on, so the easiest 21g savings. I did take a few logos off but thats just me as I already know its carbon and don't need to be reminded 4 times. So my final weight on the saddle was 86g.


----------



## Spursrider

paterberg said:


> Is the seatpost 31.6mm and do you have a weight for it? Good looking frame BTW. Thanks.


Yes, the seatpost is 31.6mm. I'll post it's weight once I get my hands on a scale. The same for the handlebar as well.


----------



## PBrooks

my bike is not done yet as I am still waiting on a zipp bar and extralite stem(final build). But here is another teaser image:










hope you like it
PBrooks


----------



## stevesbike

Fitzm said:


> I was close to buying a 2010 Cervelo R3 frameset (and might still) but having read through a number of the posts on this forum about Chinese frames I have to ask has any one found a Cervelo R3 like frame from China?
> 
> As I suspect the answer is no.... of the frames available from China which if any is the most Cervelo-like?
> 
> My current ride is a Cervelo S1 and I'd like to get a decent carbon frame but I read and I'm told that my S1 is as good as any above average carbon frame. So I'd have to go high end carbon to appreciate the difference?
> 
> Which would people say is the best carbon frame available from China?


a frame may copy elements of the R3 but that doesn't mean it will be similar in terms of ride quality. Don't expect a highly tuned ride with these frames. They are OK budget frames but one should be realistic about expectations...


----------



## Jetmugg

PBrooks said:


> Jetmugg, its a Trigon VCS02AC, I got mine in Taiwan but they are available online for 115 -- 130 something like that. It comes with pads and mine weighed 107. The pads were just velcroed on, so the easiest 21g savings. I did take a few logos off but thats just me as I already know its carbon and don't need to be reminded 4 times. So my final weight on the saddle was 86g.



Thank You.

SteveM


----------



## christoph1980

Hey Guys, i need an advice! i want to build up my fm 015, so iam looking for an light roadhandlebar, for me is the weight important. Have somebody some references?

I have orderd the hengfu handlebar HB 03, but the handlebar is really heavy for carbon, 290 gramms. have somebody some other links for an chinese handlebar, that is not so heavy!?


----------



## skygodmatt

christoph1980 said:


> Hey Guys, i need an advice! i want to build up my fm 015, so iam looking for an light roadhandlebar, for me is the weight important. Have somebody some references?
> 
> I have orderd the hengfu handlebar HB 03, but the handlebar is really heavy for carbon, 290 gramms. have somebody some other links for an chinese handlebar, that is not so heavy!?


Chinese stems and bars are heavy. 

Go with a 3t team stem alu ( 120g ) and a carbon bar like 3T or Zipp. ( 190g ) 
Total weight 310 grams and looks great
You can beat that without going uber expensive with exotic carbon that could be sketchy.


----------



## AeolusRME

PBrooks said:


> my bike is not done yet as I am still waiting on a zipp bar and extralite stem(final build). But here is another teaser image:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hope you like it
> PBrooks



Are those Aerolite Pedals? Do they still make those things?


----------



## PBrooks

yeah they still make them, new and improved with multiple drillings for the cleats.


----------



## foofighter

PBrooks said:


> yeah they still make them, new and improved with multiple drillings for the cleats.


did you post full pics of your ride? i'd like to see that...love the "saddle" btw


----------



## PBrooks

no not yet. I wish though. Should be wed. for the bars and then grab a stem from shop(and order the extralite oc stem). Then just throw the shifters, chain, cables on and done until new stem comes. the frame by the way is fm028 isp 56cm.


----------



## flyor64

Good day to all.

Have been reading all the threads and have basically convinced myself to give this is a shot.

I´m pretty close to pulling the trigger on a frame with Ms Hu at Great Keen, and I recall reading positive reviews with them so far.

Just wanted to see if anyone has anything recent to add about them plus or negative.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## ntb1001

flyor64 said:


> Good day to all.
> 
> Have been reading all the threads and have basically convinced myself to give this is a shot.
> 
> I´m pretty close to pulling the trigger on a frame with Ms Hu at Great Keen, and I recall reading positive reviews with them so far.
> 
> Just wanted to see if anyone has anything recent to add about them plus or negative.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


I have had great experiences with them, I have bought 3 frames already and have another on order right now...I'm expecting delivery in the next week or so.
When you communicate with them, just make your emails very clear and to the point. I also repeat my order with them before, during and after the ordering process. I have always paid with PayPal, and have not had a problem with them yet. I find them to be very reputable.


----------



## Cycling for Cancer

*PayPal disputes-sorry to be the bearer of bad news...*

When I was getting ready to place my order, I had the occasion to peruse the PayPal website fairly thoroughly. One of the interesting items I discovered was that PayPal is of no help when the purchase is made by directly sending money (as to a PayPal email address). PayPal is only of help when an actual PayPal invoice is created. Now, the Chinese suppliers could generate a PayPal invoice quite easily, they are already paying the fee (actually, WE pay it!). So, it seems quite easy for one of these companies to simply walk away with your money. (Reminds me of a scam I suffered once in Paris-oh, wait, that _is_ Paris!):17: 

Now, I just placed my order with DengFu and with Sunday Trade, happily sent my money to an address on the other side of the globe...but I would not have done it without the support of this thread. So, I am in no way saying don't do business with them.

But, as they say "forewarned is forearmed," or _caveat emptor_. Just don't count on any PayPal protection.

Maybe we can exert some leverage on these suppliers...perhaps by creating the invoice ourselves? I have not looked into that.


----------



## Purt

Purt said:


> Anyone had any experience with an fm107? Can't seem to find much info on it...


Got a reply back:



GreatKeen said:


> sorry,current this mould just size 52cm,because this is new mould,and would have other size in future!
> thanks


Hopefully it's not long away looks like a nice frame.


----------



## stevesbike

Cycling for Cancer said:


> When I was getting ready to place my order, I had the occasion to peruse the PayPal website fairly thoroughly. One of the interesting items I discovered was that PayPal is of no help when the purchase is made by directly sending money (as to a PayPal email address). PayPal is only of help when an actual PayPal invoice is created. Now, the Chinese suppliers could generate a PayPal invoice quite easily, they are already paying the fee (actually, WE pay it!). So, it seems quite easy for one of these companies to simply walk away with your money. (Reminds me of a scam I suffered once in Paris-oh, wait, that _is_ Paris!):17:
> 
> Now, I just placed my order with DengFu and with Sunday Trade, happily sent my money to an address on the other side of the globe...but I would not have done it without the support of this thread. So, I am in no way saying don't do business with them.
> 
> But, as they say "forewarned is forearmed," or _caveat emptor_. Just don't count on any PayPal protection.
> 
> Maybe we can exert some leverage on these suppliers...perhaps by creating the invoice ourselves? I have not looked into that.



are you sure about that? I saw this on the paypal user agreement (13.2):

...the Send Money tab on the PayPal website, by clicking the “Purchase” tab, or by selecting the “Checkout with PayPal” button or otherwise selecting PayPal as part of a Seller’s checkout flow.


----------



## dasmode

Hi,

Im currently going through the process of buying an FM028 54cm non-ISP from deng-fu. I will be getting deng-fu to paint it, but im unsure about what to do with decals. I have designed my own decals. They have quoted me a price for adding decals but im unsure about the quality. Has any one had any experience.
Option 2 is to get a specialty decal dealer to make my decals for me and to add them after I have the frame. Then I could get the bike clear coated here in Perth. Is this the better option. Dry transfer or vinyl decals?

Any help will be very much appreciated.
Thanks


----------



## justind01

justind01 said:


> I received the FM001 today that I ordered from Tony at Dengfu on December 11. I had Dengfu custom paint it with a design that was adapted from a Ridley paint scheme. It turned out really well and I'm incredibly pleased with the quality of the bike and finish. Best of all, the bike is for my partner and he is thrilled with it. Everyone wins!
> 
> Here are two crappy iPhone pics I took of the frame/fork. More pics to come as it's built up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Frame weight:
> Claimed: 1080g
> Actual: 1180g
> 
> Fork weight (uncut):
> Claimed: 385g
> Actual: 420g
> 
> Pricing:
> FM001 - $320
> FO002 - $60
> Headset - $15
> SP003 Seatpost - $30
> Extra Derailleur Hanger - $2
> Shipping - $80
> Paypal - $18
> Total: $525
> 
> Does anyone have any instructions on how to install this Neco headset? I'm debating whether I should just take it into the LBS to get the steerer cut and the headset installed instead of trying it myself.


Neco headset and cutting the steerer turned out to be super easy. She's all built up now, 17 lbs 2 oz as shown.


----------



## rruff

Cycling for Cancer said:


> One of the interesting items I discovered was that PayPal is of no help when the purchase is made by directly sending money (as to a PayPal email address). PayPal is only of help when an actual PayPal invoice is created.


That's nuts! What could be rationale for that? I take payments all the time via paypal and people just send money to my email... I didn't realize that sending an invoice was different. 

Sounds like extreme laziness on their part, since it would be very easy to provide evidence.


----------



## skygodmatt

rruff said:


> That's nuts! What could be rationale for that? I take payments all the time via paypal and people just send money to my email... I didn't realize that sending an invoice was different.
> 
> Sounds like extreme laziness on their part, since it would be very easy to provide evidence.


They probably just didn't now how to do it. 
Paypal requires it just in case there is a dispute. They want to now exactly what the seller and buyer agreed upon. It makes it easier to come to conclusion and prevents communication error. 
That's why Ebay is sure thing. You are totally protected and guaranteed whats listed in the auction. Plus the feedback rating helps indicate the sellers trustworthiness.


----------



## lljohansen

*Brakes from Hongfu Bikes*

Good day everyone

I have also read all the treads here - thank you very much for all the information

I'm still deciding what and where to buy and have a question, I hope you can help me with:

The alloy+carbon brake the hongfu is selling: does anybody have any experience with that - good/bad.

Can you use them both front and back (they look a little bit different than Shimano brakes - no 'horn'/holder that the wire goes into at the top).

Was thinking about buying Microshift (Arsis) gears and they don't make brakes, so hongfu brakes might be a good and lightweight alternative.


Thank you very much.


----------



## fogliettaz

Cycling for Cancer said:


> This is the correct thread...for the feedback on the frames. Can you tell us what model number you got from Hongu? My bet is on the FM015. How long have you had it (them)?
> 
> Regarding wheels: I have no experience with chinese carbon rims/wheelsets, but there is another thread devoted entirely to wheels. I do have a question, though: why would you want 50mm rims for road use? I thought the skinnier rims (38mm?) were preferred (less aero, but less wind catching?).
> 
> Thanks!


I bought a FM001 with straight forks and a FM016 MTB frame the road frame is coming into its 3rd season and the MTB frame its second season. probaly going for the38 mm rims clinchers. The road bike is doing the Etape later this year, it has already done the Italian lakes and French Alps!


----------



## skygodmatt

*carbon spacer*

You guys may want to check this out: 

Specialized has carbon cone spacers for your headsets in different heights.
They come in a 46m and 48mm width. You may want to check the head tube OD to make it a perfect flush fit with the outside of it. I believe the 48mm is the best one. 
Can anyone take a micrometer to their FM028 and post? 

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=57224&gold_ses=

EDIT: The 48mm width is for the 45 degree campy headset bearing. So it should work on the FM028 & FM015


----------



## skygodmatt

*FM028 TT length is off*

The TT length of the FM028 is WAY off:

58cm frameset-
I am supposed to have 57.3cm. It measures 56.5cm = .8cm off. 
That's a pretty large error. Break out a level and a tape measure you'll see. 
The rest of the measurements check out fine.


----------



## drankk

How do you like the MTB frame?


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

skygodmatt said:


> The TT length of the FM028 is WAY off:
> 
> 58cm frameset-
> I am supposed to have 57.3cm. It measures 56.5cm = .8cm off.
> That's a pretty large error. Break out a level and a tape measure you'll see.
> The rest of the measurements check out fine.



That is what happens if you measure the lenght of the top tube itself and not the the horizontal "effective" top tube lenght.


----------



## paterberg

BlackDoggystyle said:


> That is what happens if you measure the lenght of the top tube itself and not the the horizontal "effective" top tube lenght.


Exactly..... doh!


----------



## skygodmatt

BlackDoggystyle said:


> That is what happens if you measure the lenght of the top tube itself and not the the horizontal "effective" top tube lenght.


No. I measured the "virtual" top tube. It is 56.5cm.

Take a metric tape measure and measure 58cm along the seat tube, starting at the center of the BB. 
The 58cm mark is just above the seat collar- center of post- put a mark.
Next, take a perfectly horizontal level and measure the horizontal distance from that mark to where it intersects the center of the fork steerer tube. That is your "virtual " TT length - 56.5cm 

The actual TT is of course even shorter. 

So I am sure for those of you that have a 58cm Fm028, - this will be true.

These Chinese frames are really a lot smaller than what they list on their geometry charts. You never know what you're gonna get with these jobs.


----------



## FTR

skygodmatt said:


> No. I measured the "virtual" top tube. It is 56.5cm.
> 
> Take a metric tape measure and measure 58cm along the seat tube, starting at the center of the BB.
> The 58cm mark is just above the seat collar- center of post- put a mark.
> Next, take a perfectly horizontal level and measure the horizontal distance from that mark to where it intersects the center of the fork steerer tube. That is your "virtual " TT length - 56.5cm
> 
> The actual TT is of course even shorter.
> 
> So I am sure for those of you that have a 58cm Fm028, - this will be true.
> 
> These Chinese frames are really a lot smaller than what they list on their geometry charts. You never know what you're gonna get with these jobs.


I think that if I used your method, my Moots would not be a 58cm either.
My Moots is a size 59 with a 58cm ETT.
Buggered if I know where they measure to get that 58cm.

And I have not read one other person complain that their Chinese frame is out in the measurements.


----------



## Tubby1536

skygodmatt said:


> No. I measured the "virtual" top tube. It is 56.5cm.
> 
> Take a metric tape measure and measure 58cm along the seat tube, starting at the center of the BB.
> The 58cm mark is just above the seat collar- center of post- put a mark.
> Next, take a perfectly horizontal level and measure the horizontal distance from that mark to where it intersects the center of the fork steerer tube. That is your "virtual " TT length - 56.5cm
> 
> The actual TT is of course even shorter.
> 
> So I am sure for those of you that have a 58cm Fm028, - this will be true.
> 
> These Chinese frames are really a lot smaller than what they list on their geometry charts. You never know what you're gonna get with these jobs.



Do you have the 58cm geometry chart? All but the 58 are here, http://cheapcarbonframes.com/2010/07/fm028-frame-geometry/

Based on these charts the frame measurement is centre BB to top of seat tube. I doubt it is different for the 58. So measuring 58cm up the seat tube you should get to the top of the seat tube, not just above it. Are you sure you measured that right? I think you might not be.

For a double check try measuring it this way as it eliminates any error in measuring the seat tube.

1.Make sure your axles are level
2.Measure from the centre of the top of the head tube to the centre of the seat tube along a live level with the axles. Works best if you have a seat post installed.


----------



## skygodmatt

FTR said:


> I think that if I used your method, my Moots would not be a 58cm either.
> My Moots is a size 59 with a 58cm ETT.
> Buggered if I know where they measure to get that 58cm.
> 
> And I have not read one other person complain that their Chinese frame is out in the measurements.



It's not hard. You can also take a level and measure from the center of the top of the head tube to the center of the seat post or seat tube -where ever the horizontal intersects.
I've measured Giant, Scott, Specialized.....and they've always been right on the money. 
I really don't know why this frame is smaller. I thought I should measure it when I set it up the same as my TCR with the same stem, height and setback--yet it measured short from the tip of saddle to center of bar. 
So that's when I found this error. 
Make no doubt about it, this frame is smaller than listed for sure.


----------



## Tubby1536

I should probably introduce myself as well. I have been lurking around for a while and sent a payment for my Chinese frame a few weeks ago thanks to the information contained on the 4 threads. Thanks to all that have participated and I will share some pics and more details once it arrives.


----------



## skygodmatt

Tubby1536 said:


> Do you have the 58cm geometry chart? All but the 58 are here, http://cheapcarbonframes.com/2010/07/fm028-frame-geometry/
> 
> Based on these charts the frame measurement is centre BB to top of seat tube. I doubt it is different for the 58. So measuring 58cm up the seat tube you should get to the top of the seat tube, not just above it. Are you sure you measured that right? I think you might not be.
> 
> For a double check try measuring it this way as it eliminates any error in measuring the seat tube.
> 
> 1.Make sure your axles are level
> 2.Measure from the centre of the top of the head tube to the centre of the seat tube along a live level with the axles. Works best if you have a seat post installed.


Good suggestions. Thanks.

Yep. Confirmed. 
This frame's TT is 8 mm shorter than listed on those charts. 
All other measurements like wheelbase, HT length...are spot on. 

Let's get someone on here with a 58cm FM028 to verify.


----------



## FTR

skygodmatt said:


> It's not hard. You can also take a level and measure from the center of the top of the head tube to the center of the seat post or seat tube -where ever the horizontal intersects.
> I've measured Giant, Scott, Specialized.....and they've always been right on the money.
> I really don't know why this frame is smaller. I thought I should measure it when I set it up the same as my TCR with the same stem, height and setback--yet it measured short from the tip of saddle to center of bar.
> So that's when I found this error.
> Make no doubt about it, this frame is smaller than listed for sure.


Had a look to see if I had kept the geometry charts and I have.
Will post them up in a minute.
The reason your 58cmframe measures shorter is their chart specs it at 57.3cm.
If you needed a long ETT you should have got the 60cm which measures 58.6cm.


----------



## FTR

Here you go:

60cm









58cm


----------



## skygodmatt

FTR, 

Thanks for the tip but I do know that. 
I expected the 58cm have a 57.3 as listed in their charts. 
It doesn't. It has a 56.5 instead. 
The listed chart measurement of 57.3 would have been fine. 
But now since it's 8 mm shorter, I have to run a 130 stem instead of a 120. 

Not a big deal...but it would be nice if the error wasn't a whopping 8mm.


----------



## FTR

Matt(if that is your name)
You sure have a lot of **** go wrong with bikes.
I honestly dont think anything that would happen to you would make you happy with a Chinese frame.
I seriously have to suggest that you never go down this path again.
And again I have to question how come you are the only person I have read about whose FM028 was shorter than "advertised".


----------



## skygodmatt

FTR said:


> Matt(if that is your name)
> You sure have a lot of **** go wrong with bikes.
> I honestly dont think anything that would happen to you would make you happy with a Chinese frame.
> I seriously have to suggest that you never go down this path again.
> And again I have to question how come you are the only person I have read about whose FM028 was shorter than "advertised".


Point well taken and understood. 

Here's what happened:

1) Frame had no spare hanger included as promised. 
2) Frame had epoxy dried in headset races
3) Frame ( inside of tubes) has globs of epoxy and carbon scraps edges jutting everywhere
4) Frame internal cable stops did not line up and required some attention
5) Frame "virtual" top tube measurement is 8mm shorter than advertised. 
6) Ebay seller charged extra shipping for parts missing ( his mistake )-- never got them.
7) Ebay seller promised EN safety data if I bought frame. Never got it. 

...and I suppose I got a "good" frame compared to other posts I've seen.

You can view this as me being a "whiner". That's your call. 
I, however, am not content with accepting such poor standards in a product. 

If I had to do it over? No. I would have walked into the shop and got a deal on a closeout for twice the price. You pay American companies to test their frames for safety and make sure they are free from defects. The ability to hold a frame in your hands and check everything out BEFORE you buy is worth the extra cost. 

As for this Chinese frame--it rides just fine for what it is...but there are much better frames out there. 
Of course we all are entitled to our own opinions - so that's cool.


----------



## Redsoilrider

*Cheap carbon frame project*

Purchased this frame:FLY-FR-009 from maniac_bicycle (http://www.flyxii.com/index.asp) on ebay on 12-31-10. 
Frame built with components off another bike. The vinly stickers were done at work and were the best I could come up with considering lack of experience with the sticker equipment and limited time.
Picked up frame from post office on Jan. 8th and the bike got the last component on yesterday and it’s ready to roll. Pretty happy with the results. Like others the headset bearing race needed to be sanded/buffed due to excess resign. Also of note was some pinhole sized air-bubbles where the headset cup frame inserts and carbon frame meet. 
I had the LBS check the frame alignment but it turned out that my rear wheel needed to be dished. Sigh of relief there. 
Maiden voyage today for the final test and the final comments on this review. The course was 30 miles, mostly rolling hills with 2 big climbs and a time trial course thrown in. Verdict? Yeah! Couldn’t be more satisfied. I got the ride I wanted which was stiffness in the bottom bracket area. Ride is more forgiving than my aluminum frame and more stiff when I stomp on the pedals. Overall a fun winter project which saved me from spending $2300 of a specialized tarmac. I don’t think the two frames compare but certainly this project took care of my carbon frame lust.


----------



## thefutureofamerica

The way you measured is just not the same measurement as what's on the geometry chart! The chart doesn't measure the ETT from a point 58 cm from the center of the BB. It measures it horizontally from the center of the top of the head tube. Since the fork and seat tube angles aren't the same, the measurement is different... good god you're a whiner.


----------



## ColoRoadie

Matt, you earlier stated that the ride of this frame was poor in comparison to some other fictitious bike you built. You were questioned because it seemed an awfully short time frame from your rant on epoxy on a bearing race to ride comparisons. You claimed to have ridden your Chinese frame and said it sucked. Now, you are talking about build problems? The more I read from you, the less I believe. Post some pictures or it didnt happen.


----------



## skygodmatt

The back brake caliper was sticking from the cable drag and it felt small which is why I broke it down to evaluate it. 
So, I stripped it and sanded it. Currently it is awaiting paint as I am deciding on a color scheme. The ride is not good compared to a new TCR as stated prior but it is okay for what it is. The rider will make their own determination as we always do. 
Yes, The geometry runs small. I'll take a photo tomorrow to prove it.


----------



## bevo21

My FM 28 56 cm; 
-measured the same as the geometry card shows. 
-was almost perfect to build, everything fits like it should
-delivery was OK, spare parts included, weights as advertised, correct answering on my questions from Mina.
-Last Saturday I rode on it, couldn't be better though I have to compare it with an other bike because it was al long time since I was on the road, due the weather conditions.

As far as I see it is Matt trying to keep customers away from the Chinese frames. I can imagine some reasons for that. There were some people with problems, most were solved. But Matt has got everything; wrong delivery, bad quality and wrong sizing. And next week he comes with another problem that has occurred, may be using another name.


----------



## FTR

Matt
Which TCR?
Neither the M-L or L have a 58cm ETT in the new model.
Closest ETT is the L which is the same length as the 60cm FM028.
Then again the angles are all different so the sizing will be different.


----------



## Carabo

bevo21 said:


> As far as I see it is Matt trying to keep customers away from the Chinese frames. I can imagine some reasons for that.


Ok, either you are Chinese and/or Involved in the industry and/or extremely paranoid. 

Bonkers.


----------



## Bkelly

ALERT: If you are new to this forum PLEASE BE AWARE!!! Skygodmatt has BUYERS REMORSE!!!! Please cancel all personal projects until further notice! I will alert the media.

Enough already, we get it. Sorry for the bad experience. Don't purchase another one of these no name frames. You have yelled your displeasure from the highest rooftop. now, please step down. please?

I built one of these frames up and also have imperfections. Big deal. I posted them when I built the bike just so others interested in buying these frames would be aware that the frames are not perfect. I have not, however, posted ad nauseam updates on the 2 micron wave I found in the weave under the bottom bracket.

Rant finished. you are all now free to go about your business


----------



## stevesbike

YOU INCORRECTLY MEASURED THE HORIZONTAL TOP TUBE - you don't seem to read a single post that tries to correct you. It's one thing to have a legit complaint, but another to base a criticism on an amateur attempt to measure a frame dimension. DO not start with a measure of the seat tube - start at the center of the TOP of the head tube and then measure horizontally until it intersects the middle of your seatpost.


----------



## ColoRoadie

Carabo said:


> Ok, either you are Chinese and/or Involved in the industry and/or extremely paranoid.
> 
> Bonkers.


Hey Matt. Nice to hear from you again.


----------



## zender

I can see how there might be some confusion on ETT measurement. This is lifted from the Surley site:
From the center of the head tube (where the top tube joins it); horizontally back to the center of the seat post. The image below is from Surley too.

But, you'll note that on most of the Chinese diagrams, they are measuring from the top of the head tube, not where it intersects the center of the toptube. If the headtube and seattube angles are identical, this won't matter. If they're not, this could add or subtract a few mm. Nevertheless, using this standard, all 3 of the frames I bought matched the geometry charts I was given.


----------



## Schnor

Can someone tell me which headsets fit in the FM015? I know there are Cane Creek and FSA models which fit but I can't find the exact model. 
Thanks!


----------



## skygodmatt

*Call me an idiot - measures fine.*

Okay. 
I am eating a piece of humble pie now. 

The frame's TT measures fine - right at 57.3 just like the geo chart suggests. 
The axles were level throwing everything off- they weren't level.
Sorry guys.


----------



## Jetmugg

I just wanted to post a few pics of the FM-022 that I just completed for my wife. I ordered the frame, fork, handlebars, stem, seatpost, and bottle cages from Jenny at Hongfu. There was a bit of a delay with respect to the paint, but it was well worth waiting for.

My wife and I went on a 'cross type practice session in a local park yesterday. Everything turned out great.










The wheels are a set of Bontrager Race Lites that were extra wheels for my '05 Madone.










The seatpost, stem, and bars are from Hongfu. The saddle is a Terry Butterfly.










The cranks are Ultegra Octalink, with a 29T chainring. The rest of the drivetrain is SRAM Apex 1 x 10 with an 11-32 cassette.



















Avid Shorty brakes










The finished product, AFTER the first ride.










My wife is very happy with the bike, including the pink & black color scheme. the build went together with no suprises. I would definitely do this again, and probably will for my next road race frame.

SteveM


----------



## jet sanchEz

justind01 said:


> I received the FM001 today that I ordered from Tony at Dengfu on December 11. I had Dengfu custom paint it with a design that was adapted from a Ridley paint scheme. It turned out really well and I'm incredibly pleased with the quality of the bike and finish. Best of all, the bike is for my partner and he is thrilled with it. Everyone wins!
> 
> Here are two crappy iPhone pics I took of the frame/fork. More pics to come as it's built up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Frame weight:
> Claimed: 1080g
> Actual: 1180g
> 
> Fork weight (uncut):
> Claimed: 385g
> Actual: 420g
> 
> Pricing:
> FM001 - $320
> FO002 - $60
> Headset - $15
> SP003 Seatpost - $30
> Extra Derailleur Hanger - $2
> Shipping - $80
> Paypal - $18
> Total: $525
> 
> Does anyone have any instructions on how to install this Neco headset? I'm debating whether I should just take it into the LBS to get the steerer cut and the headset installed instead of trying it myself.


Nice! 

Is there no fee for a paint job like yours?


----------



## aharrod

I can't find an exact match for the headset from FSA or Cane Creek for my FM015. The top bearings are easy ( campy standard 1 1/8"). The lower bearing is a 45 degree 45 degree 1.5". The FSA and the Cane Creek all use 36/45 bearings. 

If anyone has different results please let me know.

thanks,
alex


----------



## bevo21

Carabo said:


> Ok, either you are Chinese and/or Involved in the industry and/or extremely paranoid.
> 
> Bonkers.


Sorry, I am from the Netherlands, and not involved in the (bike) industry. But I am quit paranoid, that's for sure. I believe we pay to much for the brands. Not for the bikes, because they almost all are produced in China. We pay for the marketing costs of branding, and if the brand gets stronger we have to pay more for it. And meanwhile they are producing cheap, and tell us simple end-users "don't buy in China, it is all crap".

@Jetmugg; compliments, you have done a great job and build a unique bike for your wife. And I think it would be even nicer if you had complete black tires on it, the brown sidewalls don't match with the modern design of the bike, in my opinion.


----------



## Jetmugg

bevo21 said:


> Sorry, I am from the Netherlands, and not involved in the (bike) industry. But I am quit paranoid, that's for sure. I believe we pay to much for the brands. Not for the bikes, because they almost all are produced in China. We pay for the marketing costs of branding, and if the brand gets stronger we have to pay more for it. And meanwhile they are producing cheap, and tell us simple end-users "don't buy in China, it is all crap".
> 
> @Jetmugg; compliments, you have done a great job and build a unique bike for your wife. And I think it would be even nicer if you had complete black tires on it, the brown sidewalls don't match with the modern design of the bike, in my opinion.



Good point about the black tires. This bike was not built using all-new parts. Those tires are Challenge Grifo XS cyclocross tires, which use the thin skinwalls to save weight. For road riding/touring, the all-black would probably look better, at the expense of slightly higher weight.

There are enough trusted suppliers in China (Hongfu, Denfu, and possibly Greatkeen), that we can be confident of the quality and legitimacy of these companies.

Steve.


----------



## cs1

Jetmugg said:


> I just wanted to post a few pics of the FM-022 that I just completed for my wife. I ordered the frame, fork, handlebars, stem, seatpost, and bottle cages from Jenny at Hongfu. There was a bit of a delay with respect to the paint, but it was well worth waiting for.
> 
> My wife and I went on a 'cross type practice session in a local park yesterday. Everything turned out great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SteveM


Great looking bike. What model is it? What did you use for the left brake lever seeing as there's no front shifter?

I have to say that bike looks great.


----------



## thefutureofamerica

Steve - I noticed the STL on the shipping box in your earlier post - will this bike make it out to Bubba Cross next fall?


----------



## Jetmugg

The frame & fork are a Hongfu FM-022 model. I used a SRAM 900 left brake lever, which does not have any provisions for a shifter (saving a few grams and a few dollars).

Futureofamerica - Yes, this will definitely be on the Bubba 'Cross scene next year. I just started racing 'cross this year, and my wife said that she'd like to try it. This bike was a Christmas gift to her (albeit a little late with the completion). We went out for the first informal 'cross practice yesterday, and she loved it. Of course, I had to wash off all the mud and goose poop as soon as we got home.

Steve Menendez.


----------



## Tubby1536

aharrod said:


> I can't find an exact match for the headset from FSA or Cane Creek for my FM015. The top bearings are easy ( campy standard 1 1/8"). The lower bearing is a 45 degree 45 degree 1.5". The FSA and the Cane Creek all use 36/45 bearings.
> 
> If anyone has different results please let me know.
> 
> thanks,
> alex



Alex, What part of the fit is causing issues? 

The 45/36 should be the correct diameter at least. Based on the geo diagrams the ID of the lower headtube race is 52 mm which matches the diameter of the 36/45 1.5" bearing I have. This is from an FSA CF-40 model 121-0466. I don't have a FM015 to test it in though.


----------



## Schnor

Thanks Tubby. I will check it out.


----------



## DanTourino

Jetmugg said:


> The frame & fork are a Hongfu FM-022 model. I used a SRAM 900 left brake lever, which does not have any provisions for a shifter (saving a few grams and a few dollars).
> 
> Futureofamerica - Yes, this will definitely be on the Bubba 'Cross scene next year. I just started racing 'cross this year, and my wife said that she'd like to try it. This bike was a Christmas gift to her (albeit a little late with the completion). We went out for the first informal 'cross practice yesterday, and she loved it. Of course, I had to wash off all the mud and goose poop as soon as we got home.
> 
> Steve Menendez.


What'd the paint cost? I like it a lot!


----------



## asad137

cs1 said:


> What did you use for the left brake lever seeing as there's no front shifter?


Looks like one of these:
http://www.sram.com/sram/road/products/900-single-speed-brake-lever

Asad


----------



## robdamanii

I like the paint job on pinkie. Fricken' awesome classy right there man, and a nice choice on components (tires especially.) She races?


----------



## Jetmugg

The paint was a $110 option. It's a very nice job on the paint and clear, so I think that's a very fair price.

Yes, it's a SRAM 900 left brake lever, carbon fiber, very light.

She wants to race this coming fall, so she has plenty of time to practice. We have a couple of great CX race series here in the StL area, I think she'll have a great time with it.

SteveM.


----------



## justind01

jet sanchEz said:


> Nice!
> 
> Is there no fee for a paint job like yours?


Thanks and good question! The paint job was an extra $60, but it's built into the cost of the frame and fork as listed. They did a really good job. There are some areas where there are remnants of the masking tape (or whatever they used in the process) but you have to be really looking to find them. I highly recommend Tony and Dengfu, and will probably buy another bike from them.


----------



## aharrod

45/45 fits, 36/45 doesn't. it is much shorter than the bearing that came with the Neco as well.


----------



## robdamanii

Jetmugg said:


> The paint was a $110 option. It's a very nice job on the paint and clear, so I think that's a very fair price.
> 
> Yes, it's a SRAM 900 left brake lever, carbon fiber, very light.
> 
> She wants to race this coming fall, so she has plenty of time to practice. We have a couple of great CX race series here in the StL area, I think she'll have a great time with it.
> 
> SteveM.


Cool beans. It might be a good thing to build a couple of PVC barriers and put them up in the yard, get those dismount/barrier skills up to par prior to race day.

She'll love cross...too much fun on a bike.


----------



## Jetmugg

Most definitely too much fun. We have some friends who have a singletrack /'cross course built in their rural backyard. What could be more fun?


----------



## ericjacobsen3

Jetmugg, beautiful bike. What did the bare cross frame way? Curious to know if the 1050g on the website is any where near correct.


----------



## lljohansen

*I hope you can help me with a few ?'s*

Hello everybody

I am in the process of buying and putting together a bike made of components fra China.

As a sort of general rule: does all the components (frame, fork, headset, stem, handlebar, seatpost, wheels etc.) fit together without to much hassle?

Am aware that you can run in to small problems, but on the whole, these things work and fit together, right?  

Another question:
Does a 3K weave clear gloss coated bike look kind of grey in real life?
(on some of the pictures here, it sometimes looks like the black and white of the carbon blends together into a dark grey tone when looking from a distance, or is it just the camera/picture quality).

Thank you very much.


----------



## lamazion

Anyone know where I can buy the FM028? The geometry on this one looks like a good fit for me.


----------



## Tim O

Anyone able to tell me the name of the company that sells as 'Carbonzone' on eBay, and if they will deal direct. They seem to have what I want, size, geometry, design etc.

I'm after a TT frame, nude carbon. If not Carbonzone, I'm open to suggestions/recommendations. 

Cheers!!

PS what are the odds of getting stung for import Duty and VAT when importing into the UK. Anyone have a statistics?


----------



## stevesbike

Tim O said:


> Anyone able to tell me the name of the company that sells as 'Carbonzone' on eBay, and if they will deal direct. They seem to have what I want, size, geometry, design etc.
> 
> I'm after a TT frame, nude carbon. If not Carbonzone, I'm open to suggestions/recommendations.
> 
> Cheers!!
> 
> PS what are the odds of getting stung for import Duty and VAT when importing into the UK. Anyone have a statistics?


I noticed Ribble UK has some good prices on their TT frames


----------



## Jetmugg

ericjacobsen3 said:


> Jetmugg, beautiful bike. What did the bare cross frame way? Curious to know if the 1050g on the website is any where near correct.


The bare frame (with paint) weighed in right at 1300 grams.

The bare fork (with paint) weighed 545 grams.

SteveM.


----------



## vladvm

lljohansen said:


> Hello everybody
> 
> I am in the process of buying and putting together a bike made of components fra China.
> 
> As a sort of general rule: does all the components (frame, fork, headset, stem, handlebar, seatpost, wheels etc.) fit together without to much hassle?
> 
> Am aware that you can run in to small problems, but on the whole, these things work and fit together, right?
> 
> Another question:
> Does a 3K weave clear gloss coated bike look kind of grey in real life?
> (on some of the pictures here, it sometimes looks like the black and white of the carbon blends together into a dark grey tone when looking from a distance, or is it just the camera/picture quality).
> 
> Thank you very much.


it's difficult to capture the 3k finish with camera, see my video of unpacking one here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F82G_NGBEtU you'll probably have a better idea.


----------



## petepeterson

Tim O said:


> Anyone able to tell me the name of the company that sells as 'Carbonzone' on eBay, and if they will deal direct. They seem to have what I want, size, geometry, design etc.
> 
> I'm after a TT frame, nude carbon. If not Carbonzone, I'm open to suggestions/recommendations.
> 
> Cheers!!
> 
> PS what are the odds of getting stung for import Duty and VAT when importing into the UK. Anyone have a statistics?



Carbonzone has some sort of affiliation with or resells Dengfu. I noticed their products are essentially the same and asked Mina at Dengfu if they sell under that alias on eBay. She answered "one of our biggest customers".


----------



## petepeterson

lamazion said:


> Anyone know where I can buy the FM028? The geometry on this one looks like a good fit for me.


From what I've read on these forums Dengfu/greatkeen (not greatkeenbike!) seems to be the most reputable seller of the FM028. I think a few other manufacturers have it as well although Hongfu does not.


----------



## paterberg

Tim O said:


> Anyone able to tell me the name of the company that sells as 'Carbonzone' on eBay, and if they will deal direct. They seem to have what I want, size, geometry, design etc.
> 
> I'm after a TT frame, nude carbon. If not Carbonzone, I'm open to suggestions/recommendations.
> 
> Cheers!!
> 
> PS what are the odds of getting stung for import Duty and VAT when importing into the UK. Anyone have a statistics?


I bought a frame and wheels from carbonzone on ebay. I dealt with Echo and both transactions were extremely smooth and efficient. Shipping from China to the UK took just over a week AND there was no VAT or duties to pay. Highly recommended.


----------



## Surfr

Ordered my 51cm FM015 (3k clearcoat non-isp) from Mina at Dengfu yesterday. What a bargain. Under 300 GBP for a carbon frame form and headset. Can't wait for it to arrive. Build photos here ASAP.


----------



## infopete

Surfr said:


> Ordered my 51cm FM015 (3k clearcoat non-isp) from Mina at Dengfu yesterday. What a bargain. Under 300 GBP for a carbon frame form and headset. Can't wait for it to arrive. Build photos here ASAP.


Hi

Let us know if you have to pay import duty and the dreaded VAT too please.


----------



## Tim O

I note from a pro forma invoice that Tony at Dengfu sent me last night that Dengfu are one and the same as Great Keen Sports Equipment Co Ltd.

So, what is the relationship between Great Keen and Great Keen Bike? I'm assuming from comments in this thread/forum that they are not the same company.  

BTW price for a Dengfu TT frame is $510 plus shipping. Carbonzone (eBay) are asking £550 for the same thing.


----------



## phoeve

*Just ordered a FM028 54cm and accessories last night !*

This build is for my wife. I'm too tall to fit on any of these frames 

I purchased it from Mina at Deng-Fu. I initially emailed them and they sent me all their contact info. The rest of the communications were over Skype chat, which is text. She can also send files to you via Skype file transfer - like build sheets etc. Mina is a delight to interact with. She answered all my many questions over several weeks. After I was done deciding, she emailed me an invoice and I paid via PayPal. From my experience, Mina is usually available from 9pm to 7am EST to chat 

I'll post an update when it arrives !

Her Skype ID is dengfubike.
Her email address is [email protected]

Description 
Fm028 non isp 54cm 3k frameset(include frame,fork )with clear coating	1	360	360
seatpost SP003 with clear coating 1	30	30
headset for the Fm028 1	14	14
bottlecage FD007 4	9	36
rear hanger 1	2	2
seatpost clamp 1	0	0
shipping cost 1	80	80
excess fee for the paypal 3.7%  19
total $541.0


----------



## phoeve

Hey Tim O,

The difference you are seeing is Ebay and PayPal fees are not included in the Dengfu price. I priced my order at both inclusively and they were within $1 on the FM028 and accessories with all fees.

Phoeve



Tim O said:


> I note from a pro forma invoice that Tony at Dengfu sent me last night that Dengfu are one and the same as Great Keen Sports Equipment Co Ltd.
> 
> So, what is the relationship between Great Keen and Great Keen Bike? I'm assuming from comments in this thread/forum that they are not the same company.
> 
> BTW price for a Dengfu TT frame is $510 plus shipping. Carbonzone (eBay) are asking £550 for the same thing.


----------



## petepeterson

Tim O said:


> I note from a pro forma invoice that Tony at Dengfu sent me last night that Dengfu are one and the same as Great Keen Sports Equipment Co Ltd.
> 
> So, what is the relationship between Great Keen and Great Keen Bike? I'm assuming from comments in this thread/forum that they are not the same company.
> 
> BTW price for a Dengfu TT frame is $510 plus shipping. Carbonzone (eBay) are asking £550 for the same thing.


From what I've read here Great Keen Bike is a completely different company from dengfu/greatkeen and has recieved a few poor reviews. They are the ones who do the Pinnarello clones and likely named their company after greatkeen on the grounds that it is a relatively established/reputable company.


----------



## cokex

Almost there .. Just need a few more things before it all goes together .. 

Picked up the 50mm Tubulars from Stefano from the 'Chinese carbon wheels thread' - $507.74 shipped










and a Force group from a local guy - $900 new










Should be going together in the next week or so .. wooo! 

nevermind the bacon message, it's so people won't try and use the pic.


----------



## Tri4fun73

Cokex- this is going on you fm-106 right? That is gonna be sweet. I've tried to stay in contact with Ms. Hu cuz I inquired about the Mendiz paint scheme except with blue. I got the blueprint but not a stock check or price. Did you have a delay in commo from them?


----------



## cokex

Tri4fun73 said:


> Cokex- this is going on you fm-106 right? That is gonna be sweet. I've tried to stay in contact with Ms. Hu cuz I inquired about the Mendiz paint scheme except with blue. I got the blueprint but not a stock check or price. Did you have a delay in commo from them?


yep, going on RFM106 .. 

I had a few delays with email communication, but usually only 3-4 days .. 

They have been giving pretty good support/service so I wouldn't worry too much .. I'm not a spokes person for them and things change all the time, but my experience and others seems to be pretty good .. 

-b


----------



## adam_mac84

phoeve said:


> This build is for my wife. I'm too tall to fit on any of these frames
> 
> I purchased it from Mina at Deng-Fu. I initially emailed them and they sent me all their contact info. The rest of the communications were over Skype chat, which is text. She can also send files to you via Skype file transfer - like build sheets etc. Mina is a delight to interact with. She answered all my many questions over several weeks. After I was done deciding, she emailed me an invoice and I paid via PayPal. From my experience, Mina is usually available from 9pm to 7am EST to chat
> 
> I'll post an update when it arrives !
> 
> Her Skype ID is dengfubike.
> Her email address is [email protected]
> 
> Description
> Fm028 non isp 54cm 3k frameset(include frame,fork )with clear coating	1	360	360
> seatpost SP003 with clear coating 1	30	30
> headset for the Fm028 1	14	14
> bottlecage FD007 4	9	36
> rear hanger 1	2	2
> seatpost clamp 1	0	0
> shipping cost 1	80	80
> excess fee for the paypal 3.7% 19
> total $541.0


How tall are you? My FM028 60cm fits me and I am 6-3. i think the 028 was only frame to come in 60cm


----------



## PBrooks

For those that order at this time!!!!!!!!!

Chinese New Year is Feb 2 !!!!!!!

Expect delays, just a warning.
PBrooks


----------



## phoeve

6'8" 



adam_mac84 said:


> How tall are you? My FM028 60cm fits me and I am 6-3. i think the 028 was only frame to come in 60cm


----------



## 1805078

*Miracle trade*

I am getting seriously delayed with Jack and Miracle Trade. Ordered 3 weeks before Xmas and still not sent yet. He said that the frame was ready when I placed the order, just needed painting.

Anyone still waiting???? He is not responding to emails either unless I ask for something else to buy. 

Are they on a extended break?????????? I have had email response this side of Xmas

I ordered the MC025 frame and fork

This is my second frame from them and I have also bought clincher wheels from him as well so I know he is good for it.

Just frustrating....that's all


----------



## Flyfinn

I'm waiting on Ms Hu from Greatkeen Bike but she has been in constant contact and responding to emails. (ordered about mid december)
Apparently they are moving the cabling to all internal.

We will see apparently it's being sent today..

From her email "we delay the time in change top tube to internal cable"


----------



## vladvm

I have completed my bike! It's tuned and fitted. Final cost under $1700. Final weight 16.6lbs. 54cm carbon frameset+saddle+handlebar, Dura Ace group, Mavic SL SSC wheels, Vredestein Tri Comp Tyres, Specialized saddle, 3T stem. More pix here. https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157625871170164/


----------



## ColoRoadie

Beautiful ride. Congrats! Rack up some mileage and give us a ride report. What frame and who from?


----------



## Purt

cokex said:


> nevermind the bacon message, it's so people won't try and use the pic.


I've actually been looking everywhere for a picture of a pair of no-name carbon rims.


----------



## Surfr

Minor setback. Mina at DengFu just emailed to tell me that 3 days after paying, there are no 3K weave FM015 51cms left in stock so I've decided to take a 12k weave instead. Hope they don't look as gopping as they do in photos! I've heard they don't. Shipping tomorrow apparently.


----------



## cokex

Purt said:


> I've actually been looking everywhere for a picture of a pair of no-name carbon rims.


eh ? You know there is a "Chinese carbon wheels" thread in the wheels section ?


----------



## Bacana

cokex said:


> eh ? You know there is a "Chinese carbon wheels" thread in the wheels section ?


I took it as a joke. I chuckled.

I thought your joke was funny, too. Might try it myself with these words: _We are either too lazy or too inept to take pictures of our own products, so we stole this image from an online forum._


----------



## independentmind

Here's my build, I'm still playing with the position, and I need to replace the brake cables (Not accounting for the turns inside the base bar I cut them too short, doh!) :blush2: 

I'm going to tape the base bars in black (too slippery even on the trainer, I can't imagine what that would be like in a race). There's also a profile aero drink bracket that I took off for the pic, and I need to figure out if I'll bother mounting my Garmin 305 (or just wear it on the wrist for the bike leg).

Anyways, it was a really fun build and my first with internal routing. The most difficult part was actually running the cables through that base bar! Don't mind the drop, the seat needs to come down some, and the adjustable stem needs to go up a touch. The steerer tube will eventually get chopped down a little further.

Here are the pics, for some reason the weave really stands out in these, it's a little more elegant in person.


. by independent.mind, on Flickr


. by independent.mind, on Flickr


----------



## Italianrider76

vladvm said:


> I have completed my bike! It's tuned and fitted. Final cost under $1700. Final weight 16.6lbs. 54cm carbon frameset+saddle+handlebar, Dura Ace group, Mavic SL SSC wheels, Vredestein Tri Comp Tyres, Specialized saddle, 3T stem. More pix here. https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157625871170164/


Great job, thanks for the pics. How tall are you??


----------



## phoeve

Shipped today !!!! Thanks Mina !




phoeve said:


> This build is for my wife. I'm too tall to fit on any of these frames
> 
> I purchased it from Mina at Deng-Fu. I initially emailed them and they sent me all their contact info. The rest of the communications were over Skype chat, which is text. She can also send files to you via Skype file transfer - like build sheets etc. Mina is a delight to interact with. She answered all my many questions over several weeks. After I was done deciding, she emailed me an invoice and I paid via PayPal. From my experience, Mina is usually available from 9pm to 7am EST to chat
> 
> I'll post an update when it arrives !
> 
> Her Skype ID is dengfubike.
> Her email address is [email protected]
> 
> Description
> Fm028 non isp 54cm 3k frameset(include frame,fork )with clear coating	1	360	360
> seatpost SP003 with clear coating 1	30	30
> headset for the Fm028 1	14	14
> bottlecage FD007 4	9	36
> rear hanger 1	2	2
> seatpost clamp 1	0	0
> shipping cost 1	80	80
> excess fee for the paypal 3.7% 19
> total $541.0


----------



## cokex

Bacana said:


> I took it as a joke. I chuckled.
> 
> I thought your joke was funny, too. Might try it myself with these words: _We are either too lazy or too inept to take pictures of our own products, so we stole this image from an online forum._



heh.. I figured it was a joke also, but you never know ..


----------



## vladvm

Italianrider76 said:


> Great job, thanks for the pics. How tall are you??


173cm 
81.5cm inseam


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

independentmind said:


> Here's my build, I'm still playing with the position, and I need to replace the brake cables (Not accounting for the turns inside the base bar I cut them too short, doh!) :blush2:
> 
> I'm going to tape the base bars in black (too slippery even on the trainer, I can't imagine what that would be like in a race). There's also a profile aero drink bracket that I took off for the pic, and I need to figure out if I'll bother mounting my Garmin 305 (or just wear it on the wrist for the bike leg).
> 
> Anyways, it was a really fun build and my first with internal routing. The most difficult part was actually running the cables through that base bar! Don't mind the drop, the seat needs to come down some, and the adjustable stem needs to go up a touch. The steerer tube will eventually get chopped down a little further.
> 
> Here are the pics, for some reason the weave really stands out in these, it's a little more elegant in person.
> 
> 
> . by independent.mind, on Flickr
> 
> 
> . by independent.mind, on Flickr


Great build! First time I see this frame build up...It looks better build than you see it plain.


----------



## adam_mac84

phoeve said:


> 6'8"


FREAK!!! LOL


----------



## christoph1980

Hey Guys, i need help, i wanted to start to build up my fm 015 from hung fu,and iam realy uncertain if this is not an mistake?!? thats look like sh........:mad2:


----------



## christoph1980

sorry, here is the pic


----------



## stevesbike

what's wrong in the pic? It's normal for the BB shell not to be painted like that and won't be seen once the crank is on...


----------



## beston

What do you think is wrong here, or what do you think it should look like? Do you think that too much of the BB shell is showing?



christoph1980 said:


> sorry, here is the pic


----------



## christoph1980

yes, to much of the BB shell is showing, looks very unprofes.


----------



## satanas

A few people have mentioned frames from www.gotobike.com.cn, including the FM757. Has anyone actually tried to order anything from them? If so, what happened? Thanks for any info.


----------



## beij

satanas said:


> A few people have mentioned frames from www.gotobike.com.cn, including the FM757. Has anyone actually tried to order anything from them? If so, what happened? Thanks for any info.



Hi, I ordered an FM238 from Gotobike after a crash left a serious crack on my previous frame. The cracked frame was from a different supplier using Mitsubishi MR60 and Toray 30S and it took around 3 months to arrive after paying. It was a very frustrating experience and involved numerous emails and replies with vague excuses as to why the delays. Eventually arrived and all in order, no problems with the frame and the ride was good. Gotobike advertised the same frame for around $200 more ($700 US in total including $100 shipping) but using Toray T800. I ordered the next size up as I found the first one felt a bit cramped. Frame arrived within two weeks or payment. It was also lighter by about 50grams despite being a bigger size and felt stiffer on the road (740mm size weight 1050grms uncut). Feels a much better fit. The only problem (apparently common) was that the supplied bottom headset bearing would not fit. I considered filing the race but tried the bearing from my old frame and was a perfect fit. So in response, I am very happy with the purchase. The bottom bearing not fitting was annoying but it was an easy fix. Hope this helps.
Cheers


----------



## independentmind

christoph1980 said:


> sorry, here is the pic


Looks fine to me, it's an outboard shell that's what its supposed to look like.

Take a pic from above, the threaded cups are supposed to sit flush against the BB (but the large part containing the bearings will still stick out ofcourse.)

Make sure you grease the threads well and don't overtighten when installing the cups.


----------



## Muztard

christoph1980 said:


> sorry, here is the pic


White is the colour I'd go for, can you post a pic of the whole frame pls? :thumbsup:


----------



## christoph1980

independentmind said:


> Looks fine to me, it's an outboard shell that's what its supposed to look like.


is this typical for the chinese frames which you can order with bb and bsa? I haven't ever seen this kind of an outboard shell on an bike.

tomorrow i will take some pics of the whole frame!!


----------



## SRS

Already posted this bike here a few monthes ago, but i am shure you guys dont mind seeing it once more . Frame is from Gotobike. No problems with the two frames i got for me and a friend. Winter is here so i only got to try it 2 times before the snow was here.


----------



## independentmind

SRS said:


> Already posted this bike here a few monthes ago, but i am shure you guys dont mind seeing it once more . Frame is from Gotobike. No problems with the two frames i got for me and a friend. Winter is here so i only got to try it 2 times before the snow was here.


Well done my friend, well done indeed! You didn't happen to weigh that seapost did you?

I like the look of the black on black decals, I'm playing with the same idea for my wheels

That thing is so badass, the seat looks like it's on a weird angle (tipped down) but hey, whatever makes the boys happy.


----------



## independentmind

*"is this typical for the chinese frames which you can order with bb and bsa? I haven't ever seen this kind of an outboard shell on an bike.
tomorrow i will take some pics of the whole frame!!"*


. by independent.mind, on Flickr

<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5379333416/" title=". by independent.mind, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5202/5379333416_4c9a6ea0b2_m.jpg" width="240" height="180" alt="." /></a>

Don't worry so much about it, it looks fine to me.* Just grease those threads or they will seize up inside the BB area, and don't overtorque*. Make sure the bearing assembly (the big part sitting outside the frame) is sitting flush, take a top pic please if you want us to have a better look

-First pic is from an FSA shell (FSA Megaexo) with external bearings on my Chinese TT frame

-Second pic is from an Ultegra BB shell (Hollowtech II) on my CAAD9

Installation and further info here: https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/external-bearing-crank-systems-hollowtech-ii-megaexo-giga-x-pipe-x-type-campagnolo-ultra-torque


----------



## Tubby1536

satanas said:


> A few people have mentioned frames from www.gotobike.com.cn, including the FM757. Has anyone actually tried to order anything from them? If so, what happened? Thanks for any info.


I have ordered a FM307. Not taken delivery yet. It is a new 2011 frame and is not in stock yet. Was given a lead time of 30-50 days neither of which has passed yet but I am preparing my self for 50 rather then 30. 

I have found communication good, always within 24 hors responce time. Even after sending my money. Prices are a bit higher then the other vendors I only went with them because on paper I liked the 307 more then the other options.


----------



## skygodmatt

*I would buy these frames from Ebay if you have to....*

Here's why: 

My Chinese frame purchased from Ebay was missing the spare derailleur hanger along with quality issues I had to solve. The seller wanted me to buy the hanger and pay shipping from China. I said no. Then the seller reluctantly agreed to send the hanger at no charge. After 9 days I wanted the tracking number because I never received it. No reply after 3 emails sent. I sent a final email saying I want the hanger or a credit to buy one myself. The seller said they were sending one that day and would give me the tracking #. A few more days pass. No response after another 3 emails. I was growing tired of these games. 

I opened a dispute with Ebay/Paypal requesting a partial credit for the hanger with shipping ---and labor to fix the bad quality issues of this frame. I emailed photos and a quick description along with email records. 

Immediately I heard from the seller. 

Seller wanted me to pay to ship the frame back to China at my expense ( $120 ) instead of sending me a little $25 part. Obviously I refused. 

Seller said they would not "let" Ebay decide the case. Obviously it's not something they can control. I said I would close the dispute if I got my missing part. Seller said they would send it after I left good feedback and closed the case. I refused. They have been saying part is in the mail for weeks now-- but have been unable to produce any proof. 

*Conclusion*: I got a partial credit from Paypal. Ebay/Paypal has buyer protection from these type of situations. Paypal/Ebay don't like these international sellers games. In the sellers defense, they did offer a full refund of $438 if I paid the shipping ( $200 round trip ). I refused obviously. Plus, I had ridden the bike--so it was used. 
They should have just sent me that darn hanger. It would have been so cheap for them. 
These Chinese sellers view customer service very differently. 
If you're gonna buy this stuff at least protect yourself from getting ripped off. 

By the way--the derailleur hanger for the FM-028 is a #61. Just google it.


----------



## ColoRoadie

Lumping all Chinese sellers into one category is as ignorant as saying don't buy American titanium because Pride titanium frames suck. Besides, after getting a whiff of your attitude in here, I don't doubt that most of your customer service dealings go south very quickly.


----------



## skygodmatt

ColoRoadie said:


> Lumping all Chinese sellers into one category is as ignorant as saying don't buy American titanium because Pride titanium frames suck. Besides, after getting a whiff of your attitude in here, I don't doubt that most of your customer service dealings go south very quickly.


Yes. I see your point. I should not lump them all together. You are correct...but I've seen many poor quality posts in here aside from my own. Don't people take pride in workmanship anymore? Just my thoughts.


----------



## paterberg

skygodmatt said:


> Yes. I see your point. I should not lump them all together. You are correct...but I've seen many poor quality posts in here aside from my own. Don't people take pride in workmanship anymore? Just my thoughts.


Many?????? More exaggeration. And so the whinging and supposition continues.....

PS. Have you learned how to measure a horizontal line as yet?!


----------



## SRS

independentmind said:


> Well done my friend, well done indeed! You didn't happen to weigh that seapost did you?
> 
> I like the look of the black on black decals, I'm playing with the same idea for my wheels
> 
> That thing is so badass, the seat looks like it's on a weird angle (tipped down) but hey, whatever makes the boys happy.


That seatpost is a boatanchor. Stay away... think it was like 250gr. I tuned it down to 220gr. I will see if i can do some more..... 

The bike in the picture is not all level and the Zoncolan seat kind of dives when it gets to the front. I will just have to do some more testing, but like yo said, got to keep the boys happy .


----------



## shadoweave

Hi,

I've been lurking for quite sometime (without registering) and have finally decided to take the plunge. I've purchased a frame from greatkeenbikes.com and PayPal-ed the money over. 

However, I'd just like to check what happens after that. They gave me a 3 week lead time including shipping for the bike to be delivered, so do I only query after this 3 week is out, or what?

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## phoeve

The FM028 hanger from dengfu is only 2$. Are you creating a federal case over a $2 part ?




skygodmatt said:


> Yes. I see your point. I should not lump them all together. You are correct...but I've seen many poor quality posts in here aside from my own. Don't people take pride in workmanship anymore? Just my thoughts.


----------



## phoeve

I wish this site allowed me to block posts from a certain member.
Then I could say - "I love this thread".


----------



## Vee

paterberg said:


> Many?????? More exaggeration. And so the whinging and supposition continues.....
> 
> PS. Have you learned how to measure a horizontal line as yet?!


And it's not just here that he's carrying on... 

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=3182511&postcount=16


----------



## Bkelly

christoph1980 said:


> sorry, here is the pic


Did you get the BB faced? here's a pic of mine. It's important to get the cups to sit parallel and flat on the frame. as you can see from the pic the BB on the bike isn't cut flat from the manufacturer. 

To the hater... Park Tool recommends you do this to ALL frames - so it's not just a Chinese frame problem


----------



## ColoRoadie

Vee said:


> And it's not just here that he's carrying on...
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=3182511&postcount=16




The guy is a tool. First he rants over 30 seconds to remove some epoxy from a crown race because he had to pay a mechanic to do it. That in itself shows how short his mechanical ability is. He spent a week ranting over that horrific occurance. 

Then it was several days ranting over how the geometry was wrong, with several of us telling him he once again was coming up short in his ability to properly measure. After we demanded a photo, he conceded that he had measured incorrectly. 

Now his rant is about a $2 spare hanger that would very likely sit in a drawer like the spare I bought with mine. This guy just lives to be the victim. Whoa is me, I'm so abused...someone call my mommy. 

If you don't have the mechanical ability to change a lightbulb and your patience level is nonexistent....please folks, don't try to build a carbon bike.


----------



## LarsEjaas

Just recieved my new TT233 from Loice at Gotobike.

Her english was very good and she was very helpfull. 

Frame is similar to the Planet-X Exocet, Swift Carbon 833 og Mathiske racing Aerowave 2. I am of course not sure that fiber lay-up etc. is similar, but the mould is the same.

I had fork and frame painted mate black. REALLY impressed with the result - quality of paint job is actually very high! 

Frame was delivered with fork, headset, seatpost, waterseal for seatpost, extra derailleur hanger and FSA BB30 to BSA adaptor. 

Won't be able to comment on the ride for some time (sorry), but I have a couple of pictures at hand:


----------



## christoph1980

Here is my first update! But many things have to be changed. 










The tyres will be changed against the michelin pro race 3 (Black)

The Chinese stem will be changed against an Ritchey Carbon Stem

@ bkelly: my cups are sitting parallel and flat on the fram i had no problems with that. i just wondered why the shell is so big, thats looking sh....


----------



## paterberg

Vee said:


> And it's not just here that he's carrying on...
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=3182511&postcount=16


Yep, I noticed that one too Vee. I was going to reply but I see that thread is now closed. If the lad expended as much energy riding his bike as he does whinging......


----------



## paterberg

ColoRoadie said:


> The guy is a tool. First he rants over 30 seconds to remove some epoxy from a crown race because he had to pay a mechanic to do it. That in itself shows how short his mechanical ability is. He spent a week ranting over that horrific occurance.
> 
> Then it was several days ranting over how the geometry was wrong, with several of us telling him he once again was coming up short in his ability to properly measure. After we demanded a photo, he conceded that he had measured incorrectly.
> 
> Now his rant is about a $2 spare hanger that would very likely sit in a drawer like the spare I bought with mine. This guy just lives to be the victim. Whoa is me, I'm so abused...someone call my mommy.
> 
> If you don't have the mechanical ability to change a lightbulb and your patience level is nonexistent....please folks, don't try to build a carbon bike.


+1. Well said that man.


----------



## robdamanii

phoeve said:


> The FM028 hanger from dengfu is only 2$. Are you creating a federal case over a $2 part ?


Considering he was not provided with the parts he was quoted for, that's perfectly within his right, as is it within his right to state his opinion on the topic at hand. If you don't like it, tough.


----------



## robdamanii

ColoRoadie said:


> If you don't have the mechanical ability to change a lightbulb and your patience level is nonexistent....please folks, don't try to build a *Chinese* carbon bike.


Fixed that for ya...


----------



## paterberg

robdamanii said:


> Considering he was not provided with the parts he was quoted for, that's perfectly within his right, as is it within his right to state his opinion on the topic at hand. If you don't like it, tough.


Wondered when the other half of the double act would chip in. Think Laurel & Hardy, Abbott & Costello, Dumb & Dumber etc....


----------



## robdamanii

paterberg said:


> Wondered when the other half of the double act would chip in. Think Laurel & Hardy, Abbott & Costello, Dumb & Dumber etc....


You know, something occurs to me:

You've posted NOWHERE but in these threads. Wonder what that says...

Shill? Hmm...either that or winters in Ireland are long and cold, and you've nothing better to do than fondle Chinese carbon and drink.

Too bad you can't accept that there are problems with chinese direct merchandise. I feel bad for you that you see the world through rose colored glasses and believe that everything is perfect. I guess ignorance really is bliss.


----------



## petepeterson

+2 
These threads are very useful for people trying to make in informed decision on if/which china company to buy from. It's a shame when good info is diluted by a few bitter individuals. 
Someone wasting that much time/energy on a 2$ spare hanger is just disturbing.


----------



## doggatas

hey guys

Im rebuilding my fm015 after a DIY spray job. Ive gone for the stealth look this time, flat black with some exposed carbon. Sorry no pics yet.

What is a good length of outer cable to use from where it comes out from the handle bar tape to the barrel adjusters on the frame? Im not asking for a measurement here as it will be different from bike to bike. But is there a nice method use to get the right amount of outer cable or is it just a bit of guess work?

Cheers
David


----------



## robdamanii

doggatas said:


> hey guys
> 
> Im rebuilding my fm015 after a DIY spray job. Ive gone for the stealth look this time, flat black with some exposed carbon. Sorry no pics yet.
> 
> What is a good length of outer cable to use from where it comes out from the handle bar tape to the barrel adjusters on the frame? Im not asking for a measurement here as it will be different from bike to bike. But is there a nice method use to get the right amount of outer cable or is it just a bit of guess work?
> 
> Cheers
> David


Test by fitting the free end of the cable into place on the shifter, hold down with a bit of tape on the bars, measure out the length to the adjuster. Spin the bars left and right lock to lock to ensure the cable doesn't pull. Cut, cap, done.


----------



## paterberg

robdamanii said:


> You know, something occurs to me:
> 
> You've posted NOWHERE but in these threads. Wonder what that says...
> 
> Shill? Hmm...either that or winters in Ireland are long and cold, and you've nothing better to do than fondle Chinese carbon and drink.
> 
> Too bad you can't accept that there are problems with chinese direct merchandise. I feel bad for you that you see the world through rose colored glasses and believe that everything is perfect. I guess ignorance really is bliss.


Miaow!!! Something's occurred to you?? You actually have thoughts??? I'm astounded! Behave and put your little girly claws away cos nobody's listening chum.


----------



## robdamanii

paterberg said:


> Miaow!!! Something's occurred to you?? You actually have thoughts??? I'm astounded! Behave and put your little girly claws away cos nobody's listening chum.


Thanks. Quoted for posterity and reported.

If you can't handle someone with a dissenting opinion, maybe you should find the ignore button?


----------



## Flyfinn

shadoweave said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've been lurking for quite sometime (without registering) and have finally decided to take the plunge. I've purchased a frame from greatkeenbikes.com and PayPal-ed the money over.
> 
> However, I'd just like to check what happens after that. They gave me a 3 week lead time including shipping for the bike to be delivered, so do I only query after this 3 week is out, or what?
> 
> Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!


Well I ordered from the early December and was quoted the same lead time - I was supposed to have received m shipping number on Friday but nothing yet..

My advice is after the 3 weeks have elapsed keep emailing them asking what's happening.
However they have been great with replying to emails - apparently the delays is due to them changing some of the cabling to internal.


----------



## Carabo

paterberg said:


> Wondered when the other half of the double act would chip in. Think Laurel & Hardy, Abbott & Costello, Dumb & Dumber etc....


Ok, I'll chip in also to echo robdamanii's opinion.

Chinese business ethics are in some cases deplorable unfortunately.


----------



## Coolhand

*Moderators Note*



paterberg said:


> Miaow!!! Something's occurred to you?? You actually have thoughts??? I'm astounded! Behave and put your little girly claws away cos nobody's listening chum.


Enjoy the posting vacation.


----------



## jeffxxxwhiteford

Coolhand said:


> Enjoy the posting vacation.


Banned for nothing? Weird, Robdamanii was being just a petty


----------



## mrbubbles

jeffxxxwhiteford said:


> Banned for nothing? Weird, Robdamanii was being just a petty


I concur. This back-n-forth pettiness is 1 calorie coke stuff, light.


----------



## FTR

Carabo said:


> Ok, I'll chip in also to echo robdamanii's opinion.
> 
> Chinese business ethics are in some cases deplorable unfortunately.


And in ALL cases American business ethics are pristine???

Oh, and WTF???


----------



## LarsEjaas

LarsEjaas said:


> Just recieved my new TT233 from Loice at Gotobike.
> 
> Her english was very good and she was very helpfull.
> 
> Frame is similar to the Planet-X Exocet, Swift Carbon 833 og Mathiske racing Aerowave 2. I am of course not sure that fiber lay-up etc. is similar, but the mould is the same.
> 
> I had fork and frame painted mate black. REALLY impressed with the result - quality of paint job is actually very high!
> 
> Frame was delivered with fork, headset, seatpost, waterseal for seatpost, extra derailleur hanger and FSA BB30 to BSA adaptor.
> 
> Won't be able to comment on the ride for some time (sorry), but I have a couple of pictures at hand:


Sorry guys - forgot to mention the weights:

Frame incl.seatclamp: 1450 g.
Fork (uncut): 391 g.
Aheadset: 69 g.
seatpost: 314 g.
deraileur hanger: 7 g.
FSA BB30>BSA adaptor: 50 g.

I think the frame would have been 100-150 g. lighter without the black paint. It is a size small.


----------



## shadoweave

Flyfinn said:


> Well I ordered from the early December and was quoted the same lead time - I was supposed to have received m shipping number on Friday but nothing yet..
> 
> My advice is after the 3 weeks have elapsed keep emailing them asking what's happening.
> However they have been great with replying to emails - apparently the delays is due to them changing some of the cabling to internal.


Hmm. Okay then. I'll just be patient and see how it goes. Thanks a lot!


----------



## satanas

Thanks to all who've posted experiences about gotobike. I only asked as I couldn't remember seeing anyone mention they'd actually bought from them and was a bit dubious about being the first. Will have to save a few pennies then see how long/how much to get an FM757 and report back...

PS: Ignore function is starting to look better all the time for this thread.


----------



## Carabo

FTR said:


> And in ALL cases American business ethics are pristine???


lol, I don't remember writing such a thing but I''ll say they're generally worse in China. 

Anyhoo, I'll post my own piece of China Carbon as soon as customs release it


----------



## hdn0380

LarsEjaas said:


> Just recieved my new TT233 from Loice at Gotobike.
> 
> Her english was very good and she was very helpfull.
> 
> Frame is similar to the Planet-X Exocet, Swift Carbon 833 og Mathiske racing Aerowave 2. I am of course not sure that fiber lay-up etc. is similar, but the mould is the same.
> 
> I had fork and frame painted mate black. REALLY impressed with the result - quality of paint job is actually very high!
> 
> Frame was delivered with fork, headset, seatpost, waterseal for seatpost, extra derailleur hanger and FSA BB30 to BSA adaptor.
> 
> Won't be able to comment on the ride for some time (sorry), but I have a couple of pictures at hand:


Sweet looking bike! Can't wait to see it fully set up. I was looking at the same frame but the guidance on the Planet Exocet is that it only fits tires 22mm or less. Any clearance issue with 23mm tires or rims like Hed C2, especially in the rear?


----------



## LandShark'n

christoph1980 said:


>


Don't clamp the frame tubes; you can risk damage. It is better to clamp your bike from the seat post.


----------



## PlatyPius

jeffxxxwhiteford said:


> Banned for nothing? Weird, Robdamanii was being just *a petty*


Tom or Richard?


----------



## cokex

jeffxxxwhiteford said:


> Banned for nothing? Weird, Robdamanii was being just a petty



Seems like a little bit of moderator(friend) abuse.. who knows, maybe the guys words were just too correct ?

Would be nice to not have all this "forum drama", but that's how the internet works, and just because people are mad that we are "under-cutting" America by buying direct(fake or not) we are still getting nice bikes and saving tons of money. I don't see any problem with trying to save thousands of dollars.

I don't really think anyone is jealous of these bikes, and I'm sure if someone popular were to ride one of these a lot of people would think differently, especially 10k bike guy since it seems like he rides on the bandwagon. 

To the negative people in this thread, go buy one then talk about how crappy it is. We don't care that you think we like to hear what you have to say, go blog it somewhere else.

Keep the racism out of this thread, America owes China more money than any of us can count.. Sounds like their business is doing pretty well .. I've had way more horrible dealings in America than I"ve had anywhere else.. Oh.. maybe cause I live here.. duh!


----------



## PlatyPius

cokex said:


> Seems like a little bit of moderator(friend) abuse.. who knows, maybe the guys words were just too correct ?
> 
> Would be nice to not have all this "forum drama", but that's how the internet works, and just because people are mad that we are "under-cutting" America by buying direct(fake or not) we are still getting nice bikes and saving tons of money. I don't see any problem with trying to save thousands of dollars.
> 
> I don't really think anyone is jealous of these bikes, and I'm sure if someone popular were to ride one of these a lot of people would think differently, especially 10k bike guy since it seems like he rides on the bandwagon.
> 
> To the negative people in this thread,* go buy one then talk about how crappy it is.* We don't care that you think we like to hear what you have to say, go blog it somewhere else.
> 
> *Keep the racism out of this thread*, America owes China more money than any of us can count.. Sounds like their business is doing pretty well .. I've had way more horrible dealings in America than I"ve had anywhere else.. Oh.. maybe cause I live here.. duh!


I did buy one. It was a piece of crap. I sold it after putting only 300 miles on it. Lost about half of what I spent on it, too. I worked for a Fuji dealer at the time and I thought "Hey! This is just a copy of a Fuji CCR2!" It wasn't. It looked like it, but it rode like arse-on-a-stick.

I haven't seen any racism here. Maybe some nationalism, which is understandable... we all like having jobs. Me wanting a bike made in the US or Europe is not because of any "racist" issues; it's about working conditions, the state of our own economy, and an addiction to the "passion" of cycling, rather than the numbers of it. Carbon frames from Asia are a commodity. Carbon frames from someone like LOOK, TIME, Cyfac, Parlee, etc are about passion for cycling, passion for bikes.


----------



## Vee

I think we need a China Carbon Frame ethics thread. That way all of these nay sayers who have things against the chinese can go complain in there, and everyone with experience and feedback can continue to post, uninterrupted, in this thread.


----------



## PlatyPius

Vee said:


> I think we need a China Carbon Frame ethics thread. That way all of these nay sayers who have things against the chinese can go complain in there, and everyone with experience and feedback can continue to post, uninterrupted, in this thread.


Maybe you could go start your own forum so you don't have to listen to anyone who isn't a "Ra! Ra!" cheerleader for sub-standard, cheap crap....

I suggest you buy this domain from me for your forum:
http://www.cheapchinesecrap.info/


----------



## vladvm

PlatyPius said:


> I did buy one. It was a piece of crap. I sold it after putting only 300 miles on it. Lost about half of what I spent on it, too. I worked for a Fuji dealer at the time and I thought "Hey! This is just a copy of a Fuji CCR2!" It wasn't. It looked like it, but it rode like arse-on-a-stick.


You should have just kept the frame, custom paint/fancy it up as single speed or a very light grocery-go-getter instead selling it half price. Sorry to hear that your experience with the frame sucked azz. Mine on the other hand is worth every penny!


----------



## cokex

PlatyPius said:


> I did buy one. It was a piece of crap. I sold it after putting only 300 miles on it. Lost about half of what I spent on it, too. I worked for a Fuji dealer at the time and I thought "Hey! This is just a copy of a Fuji CCR2!" It wasn't. It looked like it, but it rode like arse-on-a-stick.
> 
> I haven't seen any racism here. Maybe some nationalism, which is understandable... we all like having jobs. Me wanting a bike made in the US or Europe is not because of any "racist" issues; it's about working conditions, the state of our own economy, and an addiction to the "passion" of cycling, rather than the numbers of it. Carbon frames from Asia are a commodity. Carbon frames from someone like LOOK, TIME, Cyfac, Parlee, etc are about passion for cycling, passion for bikes.


You know I've read all your posts on your new bike shop .. Hope things are going well for you .. 

Bikes change over the years, as does the manufacturing process.. was your fuji an '07 ? I'd hope things got better since then.. 

Thanks for your opinion, but from what I can tell, nobody has your frame in this thread.


----------



## PlatyPius

cokex said:


> You know I've read all your posts on your new bike shop .. Hope things are going well for you ..
> 
> Bikes change over the years, as does the manufacturing process.. was your fuji an '07 ? I'd hope things got better since then..
> 
> Thanks for your opinion, but from what I can tell, nobody has your frame in this thread.


2008, if I remember correctly.


----------



## robdamanii

Vee said:


> I think we need a China Carbon Frame ethics thread. That way all of these nay sayers who have things against the chinese can go complain in there, and everyone with experience and feedback can continue to post, uninterrupted, in this thread.


Last I checked the title of the thread was "Chinese carbon frame Ebay and direct thread 4.0"
not "Chinese carbon frame Ebay and direct frames kick ass NO POSTING NEGATIVE OPINIONS thread 4.0."

To be informed, people need to take into account both sides of the issue. There is a fair amount of misinformation in this thread with regards to the quality of items coming out of chinese manufacturers, as well as the business ethics and practices of those sellers (let's not even mention silly claims of "common issues" with high dollar carbon frames.) It's silly to sweep those issues under the carpet and ignore them, and you all know that. The problem comes when people get utterly hostile and combative because someone aires an opinion you disagree with.

Frankly, I don't care if people want to go out and waste money on a chinese frame that they could easily have put towards a good quality major manufacturer frame. But doing so blindly and never even admitting to or considering the drawbacks of such items is just plain irresponsibility as a consumer.

On that note, I'm done here. My point is made.

Platy, you should have chopped that frame in half to take a look at the manufacturing process involved in it. Compare it to maybe an Addict sample that they have provided to some dealers?


----------



## cokex

robdamanii said:


> Last I checked the title of the thread was "Chinese carbon frame Ebay and direct thread 4.0"
> not "Chinese carbon frame Ebay and direct frames kick ass NO POSTING NEGATIVE OPINIONS thread 4.0."
> 
> To be informed, people need to take into account both sides of the issue. There is a fair amount of misinformation in this thread with regards to the quality of items coming out of chinese manufacturers, as well as the business ethics and practices of those sellers (let's not even mention silly claims of "common issues" with high dollar carbon frames.) It's silly to sweep those issues under the carpet and ignore them, and you all know that. The problem comes when people get utterly hostile and combative because someone aires an opinion you disagree with.
> 
> Frankly, I don't care if people want to go out and waste money on a chinese frame that they could easily have put towards a good quality major manufacturer frame. But doing so blindly and never even admitting to or considering the drawbacks of such items is just plain irresponsibility as a consumer.
> 
> On that note, I'm done here. My point is made.
> 
> Platy, you should have chopped that frame in half to take a look at the manufacturing process involved in it. Compare it to maybe an Addict sample that they have provided to some dealers?


The point of your message is right on target .. People in these threads are getting what they need .. We know the quality of the frames is not 100%, because there isn't another 2-3 people touching the frames, clean them up, selling to bike shops, then marking them up to sell. Everyone needs to eat!

I really believe that China manufacturing is a cause of America. Not China. Like I said before.. Everyone needs to eat!


----------



## doggatas

I have purchased both a specialized s-works frame and an FM015 one being $2500 the $500.

All i can say is the one of them had a hell of a paint job and sticker kit.


----------



## vladvm

tried the chinarello on rollers to see any frame flex, I put on highest gear 53/11 and stood on it. frame is quite stiff,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GYP6KVcXEU


----------



## cokex

vladvm said:


> tried the chinarello on rollers to see any frame flex, I put on highest gear 53/11 and stood on it. frame is quite stiff,
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GYP6KVcXEU


nice.. Although, was hoping you fell for some laughs..  .. j/k


----------



## ci85

O.T. I can't Open the old chinese carbon frame thread, Is a my problem?
Thank you!


----------



## cokex

ci85 said:


> O.T. I can't Open the old chinese carbon frame tread, Is a my problem?
> Thank you!


maybe u need to change the display mode to linear.


----------



## skygodmatt

vladvm said:


> tried the chinarello on rollers to see any frame flex, I put on highest gear 53/11 and stood on it. frame is quite stiff,
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GYP6KVcXEU


Hey Vlad, 

Your bike looks really great. Looks like your pretty relaxed. Can you generate enough power in that position?


----------



## vladvm

skygodmatt said:


> Hey Vlad,
> 
> Your bike looks really great. Looks like your pretty relaxed. Can you generate enough power in that position?


Thanks, the fit is for a more relaxed ride. I never measured power, but I usually just stand if I want to speed up, so i wanted to see how much the frame would flex. 

As reference, my steel bianchi would flex if I stand up on high gear 52x12 (front derailleur would move and would downshift). On my alumimum Specialized front wheel would rub the front brake pads if I stand up climbing.


----------



## zender

cokex said:


> nice.. Although, was hoping you fell for some laughs..  .. j/k


LOL. I was thinking the same thing. I think it's because the majority of Youtube videos with rollers has some guy flying off of them. We're conditioned that's it's going to be America's Funniest Rollers Videos once you see the rollers.

Bike looks great.

Regarding some earlier posts about facing the BB surface on these frames. Shimano's and FSA's instructions naturally say to do this, though on my TT frame I just screwed those FSA external bearings on there...looks pretty flush. Then again, maybe that's why I still can't crack the 1hr barrier on the 40K on that bike? Gotta be a reason.

On the FM238, (BB30), you don't have to worry about facing the surface, just pop those bearings in there and you're set.


----------



## DiegoMontoya

PlatyPius said:


> Carbon frames from Asia are a commodity. Carbon frames from someone like LOOK, TIME, Cyfac, Parlee, etc are about passion for cycling, passion for bikes.


True. But really, what's the difference between buying a Chinarello Prince vs. a Pinarello Prince? I don't really see all that much. Same with Ridley, Scott, etc., etc. None of these manufacturers give a crap about working conditions or whatever. They care about the bottom line.

Pinarello wanted a higher margin, so rather than making their stuff in Italy, they outsourced their stuff to Asia. F'em.


----------



## skygodmatt

DiegoMontoya said:


> True. But really, what's the difference between buying a Chinarello Prince vs. a Pinarello Prince? I don't really see all that much. Same with Ridley, Scott, etc., etc. None of these manufacturers give a crap about working conditions or whatever. They care about the bottom line.
> 
> Pinarello wanted a higher margin, so rather than making their stuff in Italy, they outsourced their stuff to Asia. F'em.


Right!... $300 cost for a 1250 gram Pinarello Prince Made in China that retails for $5500? Let's see that's about 1800% markup. Yes, I would call that profitable. 

If I had that kind of money, I could buy a custom hand made Moots built for my body by skilled craftsmen right here in the USA. Talk to the welder and then have it last a lifetime. 

That $5k to $6k frameset only stuff is for pure suckers. One crash and they're toast. Manufacturers love it because you're gonna destroy it before a warranty problem arises. 

FWIW- Here is a photo of my demolished Cervelo. $3300 total--GONE. A truck clipped me in the bike lane. Mirror to the head-- but never touched the bike.... The damage was from the frame hitting the ground.


----------



## PlatyPius

You'd almost think that there weren't any other materials out there besides carbon....


----------



## stevesbike

throughout a billion or so posts in these Chinese ebay frames threads there's been many 10 that ask questions of carbon fiber grade. The level of scrutiny typically doesn't go beyond the look or shape of a frame. 

Just because it looks like a Pinarello doesn't mean it's built like one. The markup may not be worth it, but it's incredibly naive to suppose the only difference between them is stickers.


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## DiegoMontoya

Ditto on the Moots. I'm very happy with my Vamoots. It's not custom, but it fits me great. I picked up a Dogma FP (magnesium) frameset for $900 at Bonktown (new old stock), and frankly, the ride is fantastic. I can't see paying $5k for a frame. That's insane to me, but really, I can't fault others who do. Spending $6k on a frame is much better than spending it on huge flat screen TV. Then again, de gustibus non disputandum.


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## dwhitlow

*Have an FM028 Frame available in SoCal (Orange County)*

Hey everyone,
I have an FM028 that I just got from CarbonZone on eBay. I went back and forth trying to decide on the 54cm vs 56cm version of the frame and ultimately went with the smaller one. The frame arrived this week and looks great, but after looking at it and seeing how it lines up against my current frame, I feel like I'd be happier with the 56cm version.

CarbonZone (Echo), was really cool about exchanging the frame for the right size, but the $160 in total shipping to send the current one back and get the new one here really eats into the savings, so I'm going to try and sell the one I got (no markup) and buy the 56cm frame for myself.

I'm sure I'm already stepping over some lines within the forum, so rather than give a hard sell, I just want to mention that I have a frame available, and I posted it within the classifieds here at this link. http://classifieds.roadbikereview.com/showproduct.php?product=23800&cat=5

If you're in the market and want a frame without necessarily dealing with the ordering process, shipping and potentially customs, maybe this will work for both of us, especially if you're in Socal.

I really appreciated all the information in this forum and especially this thread and the other "cheap carbon"-related ones, and I really feel like once I get the right frame I'll be really happy with the bike. Out of the box, I was really impressed with the quality and lightness.

Thanks again for the help. I'll post pics of my build once the 56cm (already on order) shows up.

-Don


----------



## independentmind

zender said:


> LOL. I was thinking the same thing. I think it's because the majority of Youtube videos with rollers has some guy flying off of them. We're conditioned that's it's going to be America's Funniest Rollers Videos once you see the rollers.
> 
> Bike looks great.
> 
> Regarding some earlier posts about facing the BB surface on these frames. Shimano's and FSA's instructions naturally say to do this, though on my TT frame I just screwed those FSA external bearings on there...looks pretty flush. Then again, maybe that's why I still can't crack the 1hr barrier on the 40K on that bike? Gotta be a reason.
> 
> On the FM238, (BB30), you don't have to worry about facing the surface, just pop those bearings in there and you're set.


Maybe it's that funny looking saddle on your bike that's holding you back  
I'm kidding, I have an ISM saddle on my TT bike also  

If the cups sit flush on the BB, why would it require facing? I don't think that previous poster had an actual issue with the BB, he was just surprised how much the external bearing housing stuck out. I posted pics of mine and a link to parktools, but what do I know.


----------



## skygodmatt

*Anyone got safety test data on these?*

I was wondering if anyone can post safety data on these China direct frames?

The reason I am asking is that all major frame manufacturers in the USA have to comply with the US Consumer Product Safety Commission and test all their frames. The CPSC also alerts shops and consumers when there are recalls --which occurs quite a bit. Last year it was Felt and Giant. Specialized and Cervelo...many frames have recalls listed right now. 
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recalls04/2010/felt_bikes.html

I requested the Safety Data advertised before I bought my frame. I was told no problem. It was on my invoice in the notes with a spare hanger. The moment I paid, was the moment I was ignored. I figured "carbonzone" got busy and put it in the box. When it arrived it was not there. No response to future requests. 

The reason of my concern is if there is a recall, how do we find out about it?
Also, do you think China Direct ( Denfu, Hongfu...) would even tell you?


----------



## ColoRoadie

Oh Christ, here he goes again. Brother, you need to find yourself a hobby that won't have you up all night wringing your hands and fretting. Bowling perhaps. Cycling is just too technical and dangerous for you. 

Do you think a sheet of paper is really going to assure you that a handbuilt carbon frame is free from defects? You want a safety assurance? Ok. I promise, it's fine. There, that has as much weight as some fictitious test. How many Treks have asploded despite the tests you champion? Now....show me an asploded Chinarello. I'll wait here.... Go on then....


----------



## athletic91

I was told that EMS has stop their shipping today. it will only resume after the chinese new year holidays


----------



## FTR

I am now so sad that I PM'ed you with feedback on Moots.
For their sake please never become their customer.
Despite how awesome a company they are, nobody deserves a customer like you.


----------



## nickycart

I’ve been a lurker for a while now and have followed this thread with interest. I’m seriously contemplating about investing in a chinese carbon frame based on the Pinarello dogma design. 

For those who have bought this frame please could you let me know where the best place to get one from would be (in terms of customer service and price)? Also is the quality/workmanship of the ‘Pinarello’ frame you’ve bought up to your expectations? I’d be interested in a custom paint job as well so any info you can provide me with would be greatly appreciated.

As a side note there was a horrific image a few pages back of a carbon frame (presumably chinese?) that had snapped clean! Is this something to worry about in general about carbon frames, that one crash could weaken the frame? 

Thanks for any assistance you can give me!


----------



## LarsEjaas

hdn0380 said:


> Sweet looking bike! Can't wait to see it fully set up. I was looking at the same frame but the guidance on the Planet Exocet is that it only fits tires 22mm or less. Any clearance issue with 23mm tires or rims like Hed C2, especially in the rear?


The TT233 is very tight in the rear (no issues in the front)! 
I knew this when I ordered it, so no surprise here. 

I run a Lightweight disc as pictured, and this is stiff like you wouldn't believe it - so 23 mm. tires MIGHT be usable - I am not sure?
I currently run a 21 mm. tubular and this IS the most aero with the rim with of my Lightweight disc so really no need to change this 
I haven't tried fitting training wheels on the frame - I might have to look for some 21 mm. tires to make it fit. 
I guess HED rims (and zipp for that's sake) might be too wide. Have also heard that HED wheels are somewhat flexible - so that might also be an issue. 
The frame IS very tight on the side of the tire/rim - but not so much on the top of the tire - so this IS mostly a problem regarding tire with (and choosing a wheel that isn't too flexible). 
BUT I think the tight clearance might be a very aero option with the right disc :thumbsup:


----------



## vladvm

stevesbike said:


> throughout a billion or so posts in these Chinese ebay frames threads there's been many 10 that ask questions of carbon fiber grade. The level of scrutiny typically doesn't go beyond the look or shape of a frame.
> 
> Just because it looks like a Pinarello doesn't mean it's built like one. The markup may not be worth it, but it's incredibly naive to suppose the only difference between them is stickers.


hmm not the sticker.. the PRICE!

My experience tells me they have the exact same mold as Pinarello Prince (so is the FP7s), same geometry, made of high-modulus carbon fiber (whatever this means), stiff, comfortable, responsive and cheap. The frame I bought has the cable guide hole 1 cm off, but candle and 2 minutes worth of bending fixed that. 

It all comes to consumer confidence, I have no problem on my end. I think my frame is worth the money I paid, worthy of the components on them. The frame exceeded all my expectation. When i went for fitting, even the LBS guys were so impressed with the frame and thought I was joking when i told them how much i paid. I'm not a shill, just from my personal experience.

Just do your homework first before you buy, read from reports from actual people who bought them, read complaints, read about problems, read about the solution to the problems. If they do not appeal to you, then these frames are not for you.


----------



## vladvm

nickycart said:


> As a side note there was a horrific image a few pages back of a carbon frame (presumably chinese?) that had snapped clean! Is this something to worry about in general about carbon frames, that one crash could weaken the frame?
> 
> Thanks for any assistance you can give me!


Carbon fiber is very strong material. http://www.zoltek.com/carbonfiber/
A big crash will definitely break any frame. but if you look at video of race crashes, some racers get up and use the same carbon bike to win the event.


----------



## boleiro

I'm going to risk the wrath of the thread and post here without getting through the whole thread. sorry if I double post but I've been reading it for the last 3 days and following all links and I'm not close to done yet (I've got other work to do too!).

Anyway, I'm in need of a new frame as mine is too big. I've been riding it for a couple of decades but as I am getting more and more serious about cycling, the fit is starting to bug me too much. I've pretty much decided to go for a dengfu after seeing all these great carbon frames and dengfu seems as they seem to have a lot of good testimonials in quality, service and pricing. So I have a couple of questions that I'd like to get out of the way so I can pull the trigger. 

First, trying to decide between the FM001 and FM015. Can someone in the possesion of either of these models please tell me the Stack and Reach measurements for each? Pretty please. I know there are some calculators on cheap carbon bikes and all that but they seem to have their detractors claiming they are off. So to be sure, I'd just like someone pass along the measurements to avoid any misinformation (however unintentional that might be). 

Also, based on a fit calculator's details from competitive cyclist (at bottom), can anyone suggest which frame model might be better suited? I'm going for the "eddy fit." I don't race, but I ride hard, do several centuries a year and a lot of climbing, not as much flat. but from time to time like to charge through some rollers. 

any hands on experience with my questions is so welcomed. Just need that final grain of assurance before I make the order.

Fit calculator suggestions:
Seat tube range c-c	54.2 - 54.7 
Seat tube range c-t	55.9 - 56.4
Top tube length 53.7 - 54.1
Stem Length 10.1 - 10.7
BB-Saddle Position	69.3 - 71.3
Saddle-Handlebar	53.9 - 54.5
Saddle Setback 8.0 - 8.4


----------



## zender

nickycart said:


> IAs a side note there was a horrific image a few pages back of a carbon frame (presumably chinese?) that had snapped clean! Is this something to worry about in general about carbon frames, that one crash could weaken the frame?
> 
> !



That was a real Cervelo apparently. Though carbon is strong, it's not indestructible. Just don't crash or drive it into your garage on top of the car and you'll be OK.

If you want to talk yourself out of Carbon, you can spend some time here:
http://www.bustedcarbon.com/

All kidding about frames failing aside, I am concerned about steerer tubes breaking below the stem. Trek has responded that lightweight stems with cutouts and over-torquing the bolts is to blame. There has to be a sweetspot in the weight/performance equation.


----------



## vladvm

boleiro said:


> I'm going to risk the wrath of the thread and post here without getting through the whole thread. sorry if I double post but I've been reading it for the last 3 days and following all links and I'm not close to done yet (I've got other work to do too!).
> 
> Anyway, I'm in need of a new frame as mine is too big. I've been riding it for a couple of decades but as I am getting more and more serious about cycling, the fit is starting to bug me too much. I've pretty much decided to go for a dengfu after seeing all these great carbon frames and dengfu seems as they seem to have a lot of good testimonials in quality, service and pricing. So I have a couple of questions that I'd like to get out of the way so I can pull the trigger.
> 
> First, trying to decide between the FM001 and FM015. Can someone in the possesion of either of these models please tell me the Stack and Reach measurements for each? Pretty please. I know there are some calculators on cheap carbon bikes and all that but they seem to have their detractors claiming they are off. So to be sure, I'd just like someone pass along the measurements to avoid any misinformation (however unintentional that might be).
> 
> Also, based on a fit calculator's details from competitive cyclist (at bottom), can anyone suggest which frame model might be better suited? I'm going for the "eddy fit." I don't race, but I ride hard, do several centuries a year and a lot of climbing, not as much flat. but from time to time like to charge through some rollers.
> 
> any hands on experience with my questions is so welcomed. Just need that final grain of assurance before I make the order.
> 
> Fit calculator suggestions:
> Seat tube range c-c	54.2 - 54.7
> Seat tube range c-t	55.9 - 56.4
> Top tube length 53.7 - 54.1
> Stem Length 10.1 - 10.7
> BB-Saddle Position	69.3 - 71.3
> Saddle-Handlebar	53.9 - 54.5
> Saddle Setback 8.0 - 8.4



How much bigger is your existing frame? I'm just asking because any frame can be made to fit you, basically the important dimension is the top-tube. My suggestion to you is to get your existing frame properly fitted to you. I emphasize proper fit where you are comfortable and efficient..Then based on the correct fit, just do actual measurements from there and figure out the ballpark carbon frame you require. Then you can fit the new carbon frame with the dimensions you measured.

Do not rely on online calculator. I've done it before, used them for one season but they were just not correct/comfortable/efficient. Get properly fitted, I know it cost money but it's the best investment before you plunge into buying a new frame. You are saving quite a lot purchasing the naked frames anyway.


----------



## independentmind

FTR said:


> I am now so sad that I PM'ed you with feedback on Moots.
> For their sake please never become their customer.
> Despite how awesome a company they are, nobody deserves a customer like you.


I literally LOL with that one.

I seriusly covet Moots frames. If my CAAD9 ever prematurely implodes and I have the funds, a Vamoots and a CR are on the list.


----------



## PlatyPius

vladvm said:


> How much bigger is your existing frame? *I'm just asking because any frame can be made to fit you*, basically the important dimension is the top-tube.


You're kidding, right? Are we using negative extension stems now? Seat tube shrinkers/extenders?


----------



## boleiro

okay, my existing frame is an '84 58cm Basso Gap, measurements at the bottom. classic geometry, If someone can tell me how to make this frame fit me, I'd be ecstatic. I'm not looking to just make it work, I'd like to get a frame that really fits me. I'm willing to put the time in to ride and adjust and work it out over a period of time. But I just know that my current frame is too big and after all the fixes, it would probably still not feel great and it would most likely look lame.

Current Frame Measurements
Seat Tube 58.0
Top Tube 57.0
Seat Angle 73.0
Head Angle 74.5
Wheelbase 1015
Stack 55.5
Reach 41.0


----------



## boleiro

anyone with an FM015 or FM001 still awake?


----------



## doggatas

i have an FM015 ISP though


----------



## paterberg

jeffxxxwhiteford said:


> Banned for nothing? Weird, Robdamanii was being just a petty





mrbubbles said:


> I concur. This back-n-forth pettiness is 1 calorie coke stuff, light.





cokex said:


> Seems like a little bit of moderator(friend) abuse.. who knows, maybe the guys words were just too correct ?
> 
> Would be nice to not have all this "forum drama", but that's how the internet works, and just because people are mad that we are "under-cutting" America by buying direct(fake or not) we are still getting nice bikes and saving tons of money. I don't see any problem with trying to save thousands of dollars.
> 
> I don't really think anyone is jealous of these bikes, and I'm sure if someone popular were to ride one of these a lot of people would think differently, especially 10k bike guy since it seems like he rides on the bandwagon.
> 
> To the negative people in this thread, go buy one then talk about how crappy it is. We don't care that you think we like to hear what you have to say, go blog it somewhere else.
> 
> Keep the racism out of this thread, America owes China more money than any of us can count.. Sounds like their business is doing pretty well .. I've had way more horrible dealings in America than I"ve had anywhere else.. Oh.. maybe cause I live here.. duh!


Thanks for the support men. Appreciated.


----------



## coachstevo

JGF62 said:


> I would like for anyone to chime in with a ride review on the FM028. Seems to be alot of people with the FM015 or the Chinerello but neither of these will fit me, too small or big. The 56cm FM028 looks the goods for me, but no reports so far?


I've got an FM028 ISP that now has close to 2K miles on it. I had a FM001 prior, put about the same miles on that, prior to that was a Kona Kona Kona Alu/carbon (which got a zillion miles)
Compared to the 001 it feels better overall, 
I'm a climber- and i really like the way this bike climbs compared to the two above and my wife's merlin. Solid feeling, power goes where it is supposed to. Descending it is a bit less forgiving than the 001. Quicker handling- not twitchy- but quicker. far less chatter in the front end then previous bikes- i will chalk that up to the tapered headset.
crosswinds are less problematic than the 001 (but more than a small diameter framed bike- Ti, etc)...i don't get buffeted quite as nastily...
PM me if you want more


----------



## Muztard

coachstevo said:


> I've got an FM028 ISP that now has close to 2K miles on it. I had a FM001 prior, put about the same miles on that, prior to that was a Kona Kona Kona Alu/carbon (which got a zillion miles)
> Compared to the 001 it feels better overall,
> I'm a climber- and i really like the way this bike climbs compared to the two above and my wife's merlin. Solid feeling, power goes where it is supposed to. Descending it is a bit less forgiving than the 001. Quicker handling- not twitchy- but quicker. far less chatter in the front end then previous bikes- i will chalk that up to the tapered headset.
> crosswinds are less problematic than the 001 (but more than a small diameter framed bike- Ti, etc)...i don't get buffeted quite as nastily...
> PM me if you want more


May I say this is one of the best posts yet. Not saying I agree with the review because I don't have a Chinese frame (but I might one day) but this post answers may of the questions I'd have. :thumbsup:


----------



## vladvm

PlatyPius said:


> You're kidding, right? Are we using negative extension stems now? Seat tube shrinkers/extenders?


my bad, i wanted to say that if he's been riding the frame for 2 years then the bike might be in ball park figure and can be fitted with longer stem, longer seatpost. OP didn't say he's had fitting done to it before, so who knows if all it needed was longer stem, spacers, seatpost setback adjustment? we both don't know.


----------



## PlatyPius

vladvm said:


> my bad, i wanted to say that if he's been riding the frame for 2 years then the bike might be in ball park figure and can be fitted with longer stem, longer seatpost. OP didn't say he's had fitting done to it before, so who knows if all it needed was longer stem, spacers, seatpost setback adjustment? we both don't know.


We know that his current top tube is 3cm too long and his current seat tube is 4cm too long, at least. To make it even close to rideable, the saddle has to be all the way forward in the clamp, the post is likely slammed down in the frame, and he'd need a 60-70mm long stem. Oh, and maybe a platform to get up on the bike.


----------



## beston

zender said:


> ...
> All kidding about frames failing aside, I am concerned about steerer tubes breaking below the stem. Trek has responded that lightweight stems with cutouts and over-torquing the bolts is to blame. There has to be a sweetspot in the weight/performance equation.


In the grand scheme of performance, weight has a very small effect on performance. Cervelo has a very well presented tech document on the balance of weight vs. aerodynamics in cycling.
http://www.cervelo.com/en_us/engineering/tech-presentations/

I think the moral of the story is that you shouldn't sacrifice weight and safety for performance. Just go with the lightest stem that doesn't put you at known risk of a fork failure.


----------



## paterberg

Well here I am back from my soujourn in the posting wilderness with only my Chinese carbon framed bike for company! And I must say it was a terribly chastening experience! LOL! Anyway when I was at school (and its an awfully long time ago now!) I never was one of those wee lads who went crying to the teacher when the big boys cut up rough in the playground… And you know I do believe its stood me in good stead during my adult life. Sure its all a bit of craic!

Hopefully nobody will mind too much if I post another photo of my Chinese frame and wheels. I think its just a little bit tasty – but that’s only my personal opinion now. But, as I’ve probably mentioned in an earlier post, I’ve been riding, racing and building bikes and wheels for 32 years and I can state with a certain degree of confidence that my Chinese frame and wheels are of an excellent quality and I believe they represent very good value for money. Again, as I’ve undoubtedly mentioned previously, I’m so confident in the quality of this frame that I’ll be taking it (not the wheels!) on my annual pilgrimage to the De Ronde cyclosportive in Flanders this April. Not a place for the faint hearted and it definitely requires an annual mileage of ever so slightly more than 2211 miles….LOL!! AND I can state quite categorically that I have absolutely no connection with these Chinese manufacturers other then the fact that our forefathers probably built railroads together in the middle of the 19th century!!

In a sane world it would be a wise man who would make no comment on a Chinese carbon frame when he doesn’t actually own one and has probably never seen one in the weave (flesh)…. But sure what do I know – I’m only a drunken Irishman as one forum member has insinuated…! Enjoy the photo!!


----------



## boleiro

paterberg, awesome ride. Love the decals and your overall setup. would you be a gent and post the stack and reach measurements and the frame size you have there? Trying to determine my size. thanks again for the inspiration.


----------



## DiegoMontoya

Awesome bike, paterberg. Congrats!


----------



## independentmind

beston said:


> In the grand scheme of performance, weight has a very small effect on performance. Cervelo has a very well presented tech document on the balance of weight vs. aerodynamics in cycling.
> http://www.cervelo.com/en_us/engineering/tech-presentations/
> 
> I think the moral of the story is that you shouldn't sacrifice weight and safety for performance. Just go with the lightest stem that doesn't put you at known risk of a fork failure.



WOAH!!! Thanks for the link, that page is a treasure trove for the geek in me.


----------



## paterberg

boleiro said:


> paterberg, awesome ride. Love the decals and your overall setup. would you be a gent and post the stack and reach measurements and the frame size you have there? Trying to determine my size. thanks again for the inspiration.


Many thanks boleiro. I’m not quite sure about the stack and reach measurements but I can certainly give you a wee bit of information which may possibly help you in deciding your frame size. I bought this frame from carbonzone on ebay and I can highly recommend their customer service. This is their R003 model which is identical to the very popular FM015 frame being sold by several other reputable Chinese vendors. My frame is size 55cm and it has a 54.7cm top tube length and a 15cm head tube. It’s a slightly sloping geometry so that TT measurement is the effective horizontal length and not the actual length which will be slightly shorter. Carbonzone have a pretty good geometry table on their ebay website but I can also point you to http://cheapcarbonframes.com/ where you will find a wealth of information on the sizing of these Chinese carbon frames. For comparison I’m 6’ tall, have an inside leg measurement of 31.75” and normally ride a 56cm frame in traditional horizontal geometry. I have this R003 frame fitted with a 110mm stem but that’s just one I happen to have lying around and I might eventually change it to 120mm. When the weather breaks I’ll get a few serious miles in then I’ll know better.

The decals came from a guy called Macro Pollo in Brazil. Again he comes highly recommended and I know a number of the lads on the forum have also used him for their decals. I covered them with some VentureShield film for a little added protection. Macro can be contacted at http://designstickers.blogspot.com/ He doesn’t speak much English (then again I don’t speak much Portuguese!) but he usually gets the gist of what you’re looking for. And there’s always google translation! Hope this helps Any other questions free feel to fire away! Thanks again.


----------



## paterberg

DiegoMontoya said:


> Awesome bike, paterberg. Congrats!


Many thanks for your kind comments DM! Appreciated.


----------



## boleiro

good info, thanks paterberg. I will check out that information. I think this should be enough to get me on my way. thanks again.


----------



## rruff

vladvm said:


> I'm just asking because any frame can be made to fit you, basically the important dimension is the top-tube.


I'd say the headtube length is most important. If you can get the reach you want with a 90-130mm stem, then the TT length is good... and a 40mm reach difference covers a lot of sizes. You can usually accommodate headtubes also, but sometimes it looks dorky with big spacer stacks, upturned stems, etc. 

I agree that there is a wide range of sizes that will fit a person who has average proportions. People don't seem to realize that there is a lot of adjustability with saddles, seatposts, and stems.


----------



## PlatyPius

paterberg said:


>


I remember, back when I was a wee child, running along the muddy pave as the legendary riders would thunder past on their LCE-14S road bikes. No name in the history of cycling commanded such respect or invoked the passion of cycling like "LCE-14S". Many a lad it was who worked long hours at back-breaking labour to save enough money to even think about buying one of Luigi LCE-14S' legendary frames. That was many, many years ago, but still no name invokes the emotions of cycling quite like "LCE-14S".


----------



## boleiro

Little Help WheresWaldo!!!! great post I found of yours in another thread on how to calculate Stack and Reach for a frame from the cad drawings. As I can't find the measurements for the FM001, I was thrilled with your post. It took me all of 3 minutes to realize that I'm shite at math, only got as far as Geometry and that was over 20 years ago! 

I'm good with the formulas except the Sin and Tan portions? Please help. Really want to find out the stack and reach for the fm001.

Code:
STACK = 70 + ( 368 + 150 ) * SIN ( 72.5)
STACK = 70 + ( 518 ) * 0.9537
STACK = 70 + 494.0253
STACK = 564.0253

REACH = 548.5 - 564.0 / TAN (73.5)
REACH = 548.5 - 564.0 / 3.3759
REACH = 548.5 - 167.0644
REACH = 381.4355


----------



## independentmind

PlatyPius said:


> I remember, back when I was a wee child, running along the muddy pave as the legendary riders would thunder past on their LCE-14S road bikes. No name in the history of cycling commanded such respect or invoked the passion of cycling like "LCE-14S". Many a lad it was who worked long hours at back-breaking labour to save enough money to even think about buying one of Luigi LCE-14S' legendary frames. That was many, many years ago, but still no name invokes the emotions of cycling quite like "LCE-14S".


Ok...that was damn funny!

Question for you, as a shop owner if someone walked in with one of these no name frames for a fit, what would your reaction be?

There's no hidden agenda here, I'm actually really curious as to the general reaction.


----------



## PlatyPius

independentmind said:


> Ok...that was damn funny!
> 
> Question for you, as a shop owner if someone walked in with one of these no name frames for a fit, what would your reaction be?
> 
> There's no hidden agenda here, I'm actually really curious as to the general reaction.


I'd give them a fit and help them as much as I could.

Shop Platy =/= RBR Platy. This is where I go to blow off steam.


----------



## barrygxnz

Good answer  

We're all in this for a bit of fun, no? We'll all have different tastes, different sensibilities of what we want in a bike vs. what we want to (or can afford to) pay.

You should feel comfortable going to your LBS and not being worried about what they think of your choices. 

Sounds like you make people welcome - good on you.

Cheers
Barry


----------



## skygodmatt

beston said:


> In the grand scheme of performance, weight has a very small effect on performance. Cervelo has a very well presented tech document on the balance of weight vs. aerodynamics in cycling.
> http://www.cervelo.com/en_us/engineering/tech-presentations/
> 
> I think the moral of the story is that you shouldn't sacrifice weight and safety for performance. Just go with the lightest stem that doesn't put you at known risk of a fork failure.


That's great information. 
But one important issue is ride quality. 
Having owned both the R3 ( destroyed 2 pages back) and the S2, I found myself faster during a 4 hour ride on my R3. Both are excellent bikes --and yes the S2 is faster at 30mph. But, I would feel so drained on it after 2 hours because it rides very stiff that my soreness would slow me down. Now my R3- that's one heck of a good riding bike. 

Another interesting thing was that two of my buddies bought smaller R3's. They had to slide saddles and use 0 setback posts to get over the crank because Cervelo uses a constant 73 SA.-- at least in 09 they did. 
They also loved the R3 after they got them set-up correctly.


----------



## paterberg

PlatyPius said:


> I remember, back when I was a wee child, running along the muddy pave as the legendary riders would thunder past on their LCE-14S road bikes. No name in the history of cycling commanded such respect or invoked the passion of cycling like "LCE-14S". Many a lad it was who worked long hours at back-breaking labour to save enough money to even think about buying one of Luigi LCE-14S' legendary frames. That was many, many years ago, but still no name invokes the emotions of cycling quite like "LCE-14S".


LOL Platypus! Showed your post to my missus and she nearly p*ssed herself laughing (well maybe a slight exaggeration) telling me I’d been trumped by an individual of superior wit and intellect! Though your piece should read “evokes the emotions” rather than “invokes” but I’m sure that’s what you really meant to write….. 

Anyhow what’s this nonsense about you welcoming Joe Public with his Chinese carbon frame into your shop and helping him with his woes? Now kiddo you know and I know that’s total BS! I’ve been in a few bike shops. It just wouldn’t happen – there’d be a swift intake of breath through those razor sharp clenched teeth of yours before the poor punter was ridiculed out the door grasping his Chinese frame in his shaking paws. Here Platypus, I notice on your shop website there’s a CBC Feedback section where you invite punters to leave positive views of your customer services? There isn’t any…. 

PS Thanks for posting another photo of my bike! Appreciated.


----------



## Surfr

It's arrived! my FM015 has safely landed in the UK and appears not to have collected any duty charges along the way. I'm going to take it home at lunchtime to unpack and inspect. Total time from payment to arrival was 8 days, however I know it wasn't sent for at least 3 days due to a stock issue where I changed from 3K weave to 12k weave as 3k was out of stock.


----------



## Flyfinn

Well my "chinarello" from great keen bike has arrived with the 'new' internal top tube cabling.
This thing was very well packed and the paintjob is near perfect. So far I cant fault it..

Sorry for the bad pic but too late to take some decent ones.


----------



## lljohansen

*Miracle trade cranksets and brakes*

Hello

Has anybody tried the crankset and brakes, that MiracleTrade (among other chinese suppliers) sell?

Does the BB on their own crankset work with frames from DengFu, YiShun etc.?

Thank you.


----------



## PlatyPius

paterberg said:


> LOL Platypus! Showed your post to my missus and she nearly p*ssed herself laughing (well maybe a slight exaggeration) telling me I’d been trumped by an individual of superior wit and intellect! Though your piece should read “evokes the emotions” rather than “invokes” but I’m sure that’s what you really meant to write…..
> 
> Anyhow what’s this nonsense about you welcoming Joe Public with his Chinese carbon frame into your shop and helping him with his woes? Now kiddo you know and I know that’s total BS! I’ve been in a few bike shops. It just wouldn’t happen – there’d be a swift intake of breath through those razor sharp clenched teeth of yours before the poor punter was ridiculed out the door grasping his Chinese frame in his shaking paws.* Here Platypus, I notice on your shop website there’s a CBC Feedback section where you invite punters to leave positive views of your customer services? There isn’t any…. *
> 
> PS Thanks for posting another photo of my bike! Appreciated.


Did you also notice that the Board of Messages that the feedback forum is on was installed just a couple of days ago? I like to think that my customers are endowed with amazing intelligence and wit. However, I don't often think of them as having soothsaying abilities or access to other dark arts that might lead them to learn of a place that has yet to be advertised beyond one mention on the Book of Faces.

Were you to venture beyond *this* dank and dreary forum, you might discover the radiance of Teh Lounge. There your eyes might find a silvery thread started by the platypus describing his trials and adventures as his bicycle shop completes it's first year and embarks on its second. There you might discover comments from some customers, discovered in far away lands such as Yelp-land, Twitter-stan, and Google-e-mooglie.

[As to evoke and invoke, I blame the flu meds. As a good Pagan, I most assuredly know the difference between them, but my brain is muddled by drugs and snot.]


----------



## PlatyPius

Flyfinn said:


> Well my "chinarello" from great keen bike has arrived with the 'new' internal top tube cabling.
> This thing was very well packed and the paintjob is near perfect. So far I cant fault it..
> 
> Sorry for the bad pic but too late to take some decent ones.


Buying a knock-off frame from China is one thing. Buying a counterfeit is another...


----------



## paterberg

PlatyPius said:


> Did you also notice that the Board of Messages that the feedback forum is on was installed just a couple of days ago? I like to think that my customers are endowed with amazing intelligence and wit. However, I don't often think of them as having soothsaying abilities or access to other dark arts that might lead them to learn of a place that has yet to be advertised beyond one mention on the Book of Faces.
> 
> Were you to venture beyond *this* dank and dreary forum, you might discover the radiance of Teh Lounge. There your eyes might find a silvery thread started by the platypus describing his trials and adventures as his bicycle shop completes it's first year and embarks on its second. There you might discover comments from some customers, discovered in far away lands such as Yelp-land, Twitter-stan, and Google-e-mooglie.
> 
> [As to evoke and invoke, I blame the flu meds. As a good Pagan, I most assuredly know the difference between them, but my brain is muddled by drugs and snot.]


LOL! The Chinese frame forums can’t be that dank and dreary with over 4000 posts and only one or two miserable gits! Anyhow Platypus as least we’re agreed on one thing - you certainly are muddled and I think it has very little to do with Tamiflu! 

And I’m quite sure that by Easter your wee message board will be just bustin’ with positive comments from the good burgers of Tumbleweed County as they flock to Broken Bridge Cyclery to buy their Schwinn Jennys…… Good luck with that one!


----------



## PlatyPius

paterberg said:


> LOL! The Chinese frame forums can’t be that dank and dreary with over 4000 posts and only one or two miserable gits! Anyhow Platypus as least we’re agreed on one thing - you certainly are muddled and I think it has very little to do with Tamiflu!
> 
> And I’m quite sure that by Easter your wee message board will be just bustin’ with positive comments from the good burgers of Tumbleweed County as they flock to Broken Bridge Cyclery to buy their Schwinn Jennys…… Good luck with that one!


FYI, there be no tumbleweeds in Indiana. It be the County of Putnam wherein I reside. Home of DePauw University; one of those schools that requires a home mortgage and the sacrifice of one limb-per-year for the wee kiddies to attend. While Schwinn Jennys rolling out the door would indeed make my heart light, it is road bikes that the villagers desire. For this, I journeyed to the lands of Cyfac, Time, Wilier, and De Rosa. The first two offer wares that are hand-made by skilled artisans. True works of art, they are.

Aye, it is indeed a dank and dreary land ye live in here. As far as the eye can see, there be nothing but bland blackness in an odd weave pattern. The occasional spot of colour deceives the eye with a name that does not belong to it. It is a land of deception and trickery ye inhabit, Young Paterberg. My heart is heavy for ye.


----------



## robdamanii

Flyfinn said:


> Well my "chinarello" from great keen bike has arrived with the 'new' internal top tube cabling.
> This thing was very well packed and the paintjob is near perfect. So far I cant fault it..
> 
> Sorry for the bad pic but too late to take some decent ones.


Wait a minute.

I thought Chinese frames were about the quality of the ride? They were about saving a bunch of money on a frame? I thought they WEREN'T about tricking people into thinking you're riding something so prestigious...

But here we have a counterfeit Pinarello. Apparently, it's not about the quality of the ride, but about wanting something you can't afford. It's about wanting the prestige of owning a high end frame, without paying for the privilege to do so.

Hmm...


----------



## PlatyPius

robdamanii said:


> Wait a minute.
> 
> I thought Chinese frames were about the quality of the ride? They were about saving a bunch of money on a frame? I thought they WEREN'T about tricking people into thinking you're riding something so prestigious...
> 
> But here we have a counterfeit Pinarello. Apparently, it's not about the quality of the ride, but about wanting something you can't afford. It's about wanting the prestige of owning a high end frame, without paying for the privilege to do so.
> 
> Hmm...


Aye, it is indeed a land of trickery and deceit you have wandered into, Sir Robert.


----------



## paterberg

PlatyPius said:


> FYI, there be no tumbleweeds in Indiana. It be the County of Putnam wherein I reside. Home of DePauw University; one of those schools that requires a home mortgage and the sacrifice of one limb-per-year for the wee kiddies to attend. While Schwinn Jennys rolling out the door would indeed make my heart light, it is road bikes that the villagers desire. For this, I journeyed to the lands of Cyfac, Time, Wilier, and De Rosa. The first two offer wares that are hand-made by skilled artisans. True works of art, they are.
> 
> Aye, it is indeed a dank and dreary land ye live in here. As far as the eye can see, there be nothing but bland blackness in an odd weave pattern. The occasional spot of colour deceives the eye with a name that does not belong to it. It is a land of deception and trickery ye inhabit, Young Paterberg. My heart is heavy for ye.


That's a damned lie Platypus - Young indeed!! If only it were right? Alas me poor oul spine says not and sometimes feels even older than the _kasseien_ on that fabled hill! 

And sure aren't Wilier and De Rosa made by skilled artisans as well? Only they're Chinese artisans who then send the frames onto a nice Italian man who sprays them up and charges the unsuspecting Joe about the same amount it costs to educate a wain at DePauw Uni! I'm assuming you didn't go there....


----------



## PBrooks

I hope you guys know that this back and forth is getting very old and not contributing anything to the thread.


----------



## PlatyPius

paterberg said:


> That's a damned lie Platypus - Young indeed!! If only it were right? Alas me poor oul spine says not and sometimes feels even older than the _kasseien_ on that fabled hill!
> 
> And sure aren't Wilier and De Rosa made by skilled artisans as well? Only they're Chinese artisans who then send the frames onto a nice Italian man who sprays them up and charges the unsuspecting Joe about the same amount it costs to educate a wain at DePauw Uni! I'm assuming you didn't go there....


A few of the De Rosa steeds are indeed crafted by Italian craftsmen as well. And yes, the other De Rosas and the Wiliers are made by Chinese or Taiwanese artisans, albeit artisans with little to no interest in the joy of cycling. For there, you see, is the difference. In the fair lands of Italy and France, cycling is a passion. It is art. It is LIFE. In the lands of China and the Orient, cycling has been, for the most part, about basic transportation. It is drudgery. It is pedestrian. There is no fire. No passion.

When a steed is designed by those who burn with passion for cycling, that passion is built into the very fibres making up the whole. When an engineer, with no passion for cycling, designs a bike, it is a mere appliance. A blender on wheels. And when a forger - a counterfeiter - copies a bike, it's soul is sucked out of it and a hollow shell, with stray bits of fibre and resin stuck in odd places, is all that's left. 

Soulless bikes are ridden by soulless riders. It is a courtesy; nay, a responsibility to put these soulless riders out of their misery by exposing their shallow, hollow lives for what they are.

Thusly, Sir Robert and I - secure behind my powerful Shield of Trademark, have hastened to the offices of Pinarello to apprise them of this soulless beast we have spied in this black place. With luck, their legions of barristers shall be unleashed soon upon those who steal souls and copy passion.


----------



## PlatyPius

PBrooks said:


> I hope you guys know that this back and forth is getting very old and not contributing anything to the thread.


Heresy!
I say that these exchanges have added life to a dreary thread of deceit and treachery.


----------



## vladvm

robdamanii said:


> Wait a minute.
> 
> I thought Chinese frames were about the quality of the ride? They were about saving a bunch of money on a frame? I thought they WEREN'T about tricking people into thinking you're riding something so prestigious...
> 
> But here we have a counterfeit Pinarello. Apparently, it's not about the quality of the ride, but about wanting something you can't afford. It's about wanting the prestige of owning a high end frame, without paying for the privilege to do so.
> 
> Hmm...


whatever gets them on a bike is ok with me. Being poor is not a fault.


----------



## robdamanii

vladvm said:


> whatever gets them on a bike is ok with me. Being poor is not a fault.


By that logic then what's wrong with an entry level Trek or Giant? Or even a Bikes Direct type of bike? You can buy a whole functioning machine for the price of that counterfeit frame...


----------



## PlatyPius

vladvm said:


> whatever gets them on a bike is ok with me. Being poor is not a fault.


Being poor is not a fault, and living within our means is a virtue.

If I want a Ferrari and have a Ford Focus income, I don't buy a fake Ferrari; I buy a Focus. A Ferrari is not a "right", nor is a Pinarello. Buying a fake just so you look like you have the real thing just makes you look like a loser. Like the women with fake Coach bags, guys with fake Rolex watches, etc. The difference is, those people KNOW they're fakes. Y'all in here seem to think that these are magically the SAME frame without the paint, and that it will ride like the real thing.

It isn't a real Pinarello frame.
It's a copy.
The factory that makes Pinarello frames, if they were selling them out the back door/unbranded, would find itself without a contract with Pinarello. Does that seem logical to you?


----------



## cokex

PlatyPius said:


> Heresy!
> I say that these exchanges have added life to a dreary thread of deceit and treachery.


I'm sure you are a great person in real life and a good business person .. but your superiority complex baffles me .. 

Do you think because I have a knock off I'm a bad person ?? or anyone for that matter ? I purchased this bike from reading these threads and making my own decision. 

Thanks for adding your worthless words of wisdom..

Questioning ones Ethics, Morals, over the internet is pretty useless. The people in life I've met that are on that boat seem to have something up their ass or hate the world because their free ticket hasn't arrived yet. It's all about you right ?? 

I too enjoy reading randomness in threads, so I don't mind if it continues.

Good contribution is one thing, but being a jerk who thinks they are better than everyone else is another..


----------



## boleiro

maybe a separate thread for the debate on counterfeits and chinese vs. name brand carbon should be started? for someone trying to get some actual detailed info from any of the 4 chinese carbon threads, it's very frustrating as you have to read through A LOT of posts that add nothing to the knowledge base of the topic, chinese carbon frames. Ordinarily, its not a big deal for me. But when trying to get through 4 threads of 40+ pages, this becomes an issue. This whole page is a perfect example of the charming banter and the tiresome consumer morals soap box that stifles this thread. It's not an entertainment thread, there's plenty of other threads for that. Most aren't here for a chuckle, they're here for boring details so they can move on.


----------



## cokex

PlatyPius said:


> Being poor is not a fault, and living within our means is a virtue.
> 
> If I want a Ferrari and have a Ford Focus income, I don't buy a fake Ferrari; I buy a Focus. A Ferrari is not a "right", nor is a Pinarello. Buying a fake just so you look like you have the real thing just makes you look like a loser. Like the women with fake Coach bags, guys with fake Rolex watches, etc. The difference is, those people KNOW they're fakes. Y'all in here seem to think that these are magically the SAME frame without the paint, and that it will ride like the real thing.
> 
> *It isn't a real Pinarello frame.
> It's a copy.*
> The factory that makes Pinarello frames, if they were selling them out the back door/unbranded, would find itself without a contract with Pinarello. Does that seem logical to you?


Prove it.

This is China we are talking about.. Which you like to complain about so you should also question if its real or not, it really could be coming out the back door. Last I heard there were only 3 factories that can make carbon frames in China.. 

I believe it's a fake, but possibly OEM, which makes it a "fake" with quotes.


----------



## robdamanii

cokex said:


> Prove it.
> 
> This is China we are talking about.. Which you like to complain about so you should also question if its real or not, it really could be coming out the back door. Last I heard there were only 3 factories that can make carbon frames in China..
> 
> I believe it's a fake, but possibly OEM, which makes it a "fake" with quotes.











That's an interesting start isn't it?

Another very simple way to tell if it's real or not is BB threads.


----------



## cokex

robdamanii said:


> That's an interesting start isn't it?
> 
> Another very simple way to tell if it's real or not is BB threads.


That image doesn't do much .. we already know that they are "fakes" .. sheesh. Do you understand what OEM is ?

Now, we do know that Pinarello has their bikes made in China .. Just where that is, is the million dollar question.

These bikes still ride nice, and nobody has come in with a broken face saying their "chinarello" broke for no reason. Just little issues here and there that are taken care of with little effort.

I have to say it.. Is PlatyPius on the left and Roddamnii on the right ?


----------



## robdamanii

cokex said:


> That image doesn't do much .. we already know that they are "fakes" .. sheesh. Do you understand what OEM is ?
> 
> Now, we do know that Pinarello has their bikes made in China .. Just where that is, is the million dollar question.
> 
> These bikes still ride nice, and nobody has come in with a broken face saying their "chinarello" broke for no reason. Just little issues here and there that are taken care of with little effort.
> 
> I have to say it.. Is PlatyPius on the left and Roddamnii on the right ?


The point is, these are not "OEM" bikes, as you like to refer to them as.

"Chinarello" owners, I have a question:

What type of bottom bracket threads does your frame have?

Secondly, Great Keen bikes is located in mainland China. This is quite interesting since Pinarello frames are manufactured in Taiwan specifically. Gee, I wonder if they're the OEM...


----------



## PlatyPius

One more post and I'll leave it alone.

Does it not bother you at all that, one way or the other, you are buying an illegal product? Either the frame is a copy of a Pinarello - counterfeit - which is illegal, but nearly impossible to stop, or it's a real Pinarello going out the back door of the factory - ie: stolen intellectual property.

There is no "Yeah, but...." Anyone who buys a Chinarello is immoral and a criminal. Yeah, yeah...."You're a bike shop owner, of course you think that way!" I feel that way about ANY counterfeit/stolen merchandise. Someone was paid to come up with the design, do the testing, build the prototypes, carry the insurance, etc. Bypassing that is just f#$king WRONG. Why is that so hard for people to understand?

"I can't afford a real one!" Then don't freaking BUY a real one! Buy what you can afford; like an entry-level Trek. Hell, buy a BD bike. At least they are genuine bikes with a known lineage (mostly Fuji/Ideal).

People wonder why the world is as screwed up as it is right now; I suggest they look at these threads. This is what's wrong.


----------



## lljohansen

*Back to the products...*

...hopefully we can get back to talking about the how's, why's and etc. of the products 

Has anybody any experience with the crankarms and brakes from MiracleTrade?

Thanks.


----------



## cokex

PlatyPius said:


> One more post and I'll leave it alone.
> 
> Does it not bother you at all that, one way or the other, you are buying an illegal product? Either the frame is a copy of a Pinarello - counterfeit - which is illegal, but nearly impossible to stop, or it's a real Pinarello going out the back door of the factory - ie: stolen intellectual property.
> 
> There is no "Yeah, but...." Anyone who buys a Chinarello is immoral and a criminal. Yeah, yeah...."You're a bike shop owner, of course you think that way!" I feel that way about ANY counterfeit/stolen merchandise. Someone was paid to come up with the design, do the testing, build the prototypes, carry the insurance, etc. Bypassing that is just f#$king WRONG. Why is that so hard for people to understand?
> 
> "I can't afford a real one!" Then don't freaking BUY a real one! Buy what you can afford; like an entry-level Trek. Hell, buy a BD bike. At least they are genuine bikes with a known lineage (mostly Fuji/Ideal).
> 
> People wonder why the world is as screwed up as it is right now; I suggest they look at these threads. This is what's wrong.


You are very off topic here .. if we wanted to talk about world morals, that's a lot more than just these threads. "iraq" "war" "oil" , big problem there.

I almost did buy a trek for 5k because it was made by cheese heads and in the USA. I didn't get it because the bike next to it had Lance's autograph which racked the price up. So I figured their price point was with a Name other than just brand. Then I stumbled on these threads, did a bunch of reading and research and gave it a shot. 

I'm 6'1 and fit a 58mm bike, they kept trying to fit me to a 60mm which I would've been ok with, but they made me feel like cattle and that they were trying to get rid of their old stock.

I do agree with you 100% on the illegal business .. There is nothing to brag about and nothing to look up to here other than getting a cheap bike. 

Made in China gets to America a lot of ways, I'm sure what we are doing is not new. 

Do you know that only 30% of a product needs to be handled in America to be legally labeled as "Made In America" .. now that is bs to me.

-b


----------



## Niall8can

updated shot of my fm015 with new yishun wheels


----------



## cs1

PlatyPius said:


> Buying a knock-off frame from China is one thing. Buying a counterfeit is another...


Still, I like the paint. If I showed it to my wife she would have to have it.


----------



## vladvm

PlatyPius said:


> Being poor is not a fault, and living within our means is a virtue.
> 
> If I want a Ferrari and have a Ford Focus income, I don't buy a fake Ferrari; I buy a Focus. A Ferrari is not a "right", nor is a Pinarello. Buying a fake just so you look like you have the real thing just makes you look like a loser. Like the women with fake Coach bags, guys with fake Rolex watches, etc. The difference is, those people KNOW they're fakes. Y'all in here seem to think that these are magically the SAME frame without the paint, and that it will ride like the real thing.
> 
> It isn't a real Pinarello frame.
> It's a copy.
> The factory that makes Pinarello frames, if they were selling them out the back door/unbranded, would find itself without a contract with Pinarello. Does that seem logical to you?


who cares? if the fake chinarello makes the person ride more, that's a good thing. People who buy these frame want to buy cheap frames that ride well, the paint/looks are just bonus, so who cares?


----------



## vladvm

robdamanii said:


> The point is, these are not "OEM" bikes, as you like to refer to them as.
> 
> "Chinarello" owners, I have a question:
> 
> What type of bottom bracket threads does your frame have?
> 
> Secondly, Great Keen bikes is located in mainland China. This is quite interesting since Pinarello frames are manufactured in Taiwan specifically. Gee, I wonder if they're the OEM...


I have an english thread bottom bracket on mine. I like it since english threaded bottom brackets are abundant, be had for cheap and are more functional (italian threaded are prone to problems due to the right-threaded fixed cup,which tends to unscrew itself in use - Sheldon Brown website)

My frame was made in Taiwan, looks OEM to me.


----------



## mrbubbles

vladvm said:


> who cares? if the fake chinarello makes the person ride more, that's a good thing. People who buy these frame want to buy cheap frames that ride well, the paint/looks are just bonus, so who cares?


Those people are just butthurt. If you can save $4000 and get the identical stuff, why not? That's $4000 more you can spend in your local economy rather than to Pinarello.


----------



## paterberg

PlatyPius said:


> A few of the De Rosa steeds are indeed crafted by Italian craftsmen as well. And yes, the other De Rosas and the Wiliers are made by Chinese or Taiwanese artisans, albeit artisans with little to no interest in the joy of cycling. For there, you see, is the difference. In the fair lands of Italy and France, cycling is a passion. It is art. It is LIFE. In the lands of China and the Orient, cycling has been, for the most part, about basic transportation. It is drudgery. It is pedestrian. There is no fire. No passion.
> 
> When a steed is designed by those who burn with passion for cycling, that passion is built into the very fibres making up the whole. When an engineer, with no passion for cycling, designs a bike, it is a mere appliance. A blender on wheels. And when a forger - a counterfeiter - copies a bike, it's soul is sucked out of it and a hollow shell, with stray bits of fibre and resin stuck in odd places, is all that's left.
> 
> Soulless bikes are ridden by soulless riders. It is a courtesy; nay, a responsibility to put these soulless riders out of their misery by exposing their shallow, hollow lives for what they are.
> 
> Thusly, Sir Robert and I - secure behind my powerful Shield of Trademark, have hastened to the offices of Pinarello to apprise them of this soulless beast we have spied in this black place. With luck, their legions of barristers shall be unleashed soon upon those who steal souls and copy passion.


Impressive Platypus but complete and utter nonsense of course! Like so many, you have a rose-tinted view of cycling in Europe and are making the elementary mistake of confusing cycling with cycle racing. Indeed there is a massive fiery passion for bike racing in France, Spain, Italy, Belgium and Holland that you won’t find anywhere else on the planet. Some things are a matter of life and death – in Flanders bike racing’s more important than that! But here’s the thing – the vast majority of cyclists in those countries don’t race. Stand on a street corner in Paris, Gent, Brugge, Brussels or Amsterdam and you’ll see more cyclists go by in five minutes than would be safely allowed in a Tour de France peloton. And they’re not riding carbon Pinarellos, Colnagos or Cyfacs etc. More likely to be a battered up old steel Batavus with big fat tyres and panniers. They use their bikes every day to get from A to B. Drudgery? I can’t comment, it’s their lives. But it most certainly is a way of LIFE – bit like cycling in China really. 

Here Platypus our little joust has been fun! Jeez I just love a good slagging session!! But I think the other kiddies in the play-park are getting a little miffed cos we’re going a tad off piste so I’m gonna call time. Just off to have a quick dig at your wee chum Robbie and that’ll have to do me. He’ll probably run off crying to the boss man and get me banned the way he did the last time! Maybe he’ll find some steel ones in that well stocked garage of his! Ho hum!


----------



## paterberg

robdamanii said:


> The point is, these are not "OEM" bikes, as you like to refer to them as.
> 
> "Chinarello" owners, I have a question:
> 
> What type of bottom bracket threads does your frame have?
> 
> Secondly, Great Keen bikes is located in mainland China. This is quite interesting since Pinarello frames are manufactured in Taiwan specifically. Gee, I wonder if they're the OEM...


You're back! Where have you been? Let me guess. Out on your bike increasing that impressive annual mileage total of yours? What was it last year? 2211? WOW! That far? It takes someone amazingly stupid or amazingly conceited to boast about such a paltry total on the internet. My five year old will pedal more miles than that before she gets her Easter Bunny...


----------



## zender

Can I see a closeup shot of the BB area of that Chinarello? It's not the threads I care about, but the paint and aluminum area look a little cleaner than some others I've seen.


----------



## karlo

robdamanii said:


> The point is, these are not "OEM" bikes, as you like to refer to them as.
> 
> "Chinarello" owners, I have a question:
> 
> What type of bottom bracket threads does your frame have?
> 
> Secondly, Great Keen bikes is located in mainland China. This is quite interesting since Pinarello frames are manufactured in Taiwan specifically. Gee, I wonder if they're the OEM...



Don't believe everything you ready on the bike decals or what the company says, just because it says it's made in Taiwan doesn't mean it really is made there or maybe they are talking about the decals are made in Taiwan. I received this from one of the China manufacturers that we get these frames from, take a look at the decal that is located on the bottom of the down tube.

This is the one sent to me:
https://gabeadz.com/karlo/images/misc/FM038.jpg

Here are some other internet pics:
https://www.bikekatalog.pl/2010/komponenty/2074/foto:1/
https://www.pinkbike.com/photo/4676205/


----------



## robdamanii

vladvm said:


> I have an english thread bottom bracket on mine. I like it since english threaded bottom brackets are abundant, be had for cheap and are more functional (italian threaded are prone to problems due to the right-threaded fixed cup,which tends to unscrew itself in use - Sheldon Brown website)
> 
> My frame was made in Taiwan, looks OEM to me.


It is not a Pinarello OEM then.

No higher end Pinarello that I am aware of uses an English threaded BB shell. They are all Italian.

You do not have OEM, you have a ripoff.



mrbubbles said:


> Those people are just butthurt. If you can save $4000 and get the identical stuff, why not? That's $4000 more you can spend in your local economy rather than to Pinarello.


Too bad it's not identical. Just because it looks the same doesn't mean it is...



karlo said:


> Don't believe everything you ready on the bike decals or what the company says, just because it says it's made in Taiwan doesn't mean it really is made there or maybe they are talking about the decals are made in Taiwan. I received this from one of the China manufacturers that we get these frames from, take a look at the decal that is located on the bottom of the down tube.
> 
> This is the one sent to me:
> https://gabeadz.com/karlo/images/misc/FM038.jpg
> 
> Here are some other internet pics:
> https://www.bikekatalog.pl/2010/komponenty/2074/foto:1/
> https://www.pinkbike.com/photo/4676205/


So you're saying that Pinarello is NOT made in Taiwan? They are moulded in Taiwan and shipped to Italy for assembly and paint (and a "Made in Italy" sticker as well.)

Sure seems to be the case: https://www.ebicycles.com/listing/pinarello-bicycles.html

The fact remains that these frames are coming out with BSA BB threads, which is a no-no for Pinarello. So, how does one explain that relationship?


----------



## robdamanii

paterberg said:


> You're back! Where have you been? Let me guess. Out on your bike increasing that impressive annual mileage total of yours? What was it last year? 2211? WOW! That far? It takes someone amazingly stupid or amazingly conceited to boast about such a paltry total on the internet. My five year old will pedal more miles than that before she gets her Easter Bunny...


 

I'm enjoying this.


Are you able to have pleasant discourse or is your only method of discussion personal attack? I'm pretty curious...


----------



## cokex

robdamanii said:


> It is not a Pinarello OEM then.
> 
> No higher end Pinarello that I am aware of uses an English threaded BB shell. They are all Italian.
> 
> You do not have OEM, you have a ripoff.
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad it's not identical. Just because it looks the same doesn't mean it is...



What is it that you want to hear ?? You really are wasting precious internet bandwith. 

You are only repeating what we already know .. True or Not .. there is lots of speculation here.

-b


----------



## cokex

robdamanii said:


> I'm enjoying this.
> 
> 
> Are you able to have pleasant discourse or is your only method of discussion personal attack? I'm pretty curious...


I am starting to get the feeling you are some internet troll .. 

How do I make a mod friend to help with curbing things here.. hmmmm

-b


----------



## Coolhand

*Moderator's Note*



paterberg said:


> You're back! Where have you been? Let me guess. Out on your bike increasing that impressive annual mileage total of yours? What was it last year? 2211? WOW! That far? It takes someone amazingly stupid or amazingly conceited to boast about such a paltry total on the internet. My five year old will pedal more miles than that before she gets her Easter Bunny...


Enjoy the posting vacation. Next one is permanent.


----------



## cokex

Coolhand said:


> Enjoy the posting vacation. Next one is permanent.


I know this probably won't get answered... but for what reason ?

-b


----------



## Coolhand

*Moderator's Note*



cokex said:


> I am starting to get the feeling you are some internet troll ..
> 
> How do I make a mod friend to help with curbing things here.. hmmmm
> 
> -b


Don't want to see someone's posts- just use the Ignore user feature- click on the user name and go from there (look for the link in white). 

FYI- having a different opinion than yours doesn't make a poster a troll.


----------



## cokex

Coolhand said:


> Don't want to see someone's posts- just use the Ignore user feature- click on the user name and go from there (look for the link in white).
> 
> FYI- having a different opinion than yours doesn't make a poster a troll.


FYI, if they do it for enjoyment it is.. and he doesn't seem to have any valid input here.. other than his opinions.. which I welcome.


----------



## Coolhand

*Moderator's Note*



cokex said:


> I know this probably won't get answered... but for what reason ?
> 
> -b


Personal attacks, especially after warnings not to do so. Check out the forum guidelines link in the top right. As noted above- if someone's posts irritate you- just put them on your Ignore user list- problem permanently solved!


----------



## robdamanii

cokex said:


> What is it that you want to hear ?? You really are wasting precious internet bandwith.
> 
> You are only repeating what we already know .. True or Not .. there is lots of speculation here.
> 
> -b


I don't really need to hear anything. I'm simply correcting the notion that buying a sub $1000 frame from china is the same as buying a $5000 Pinarello Prince. To claim anything otherwise is just...I can't even explain it.

Really, I don't have any issue with people riding more, but I DO have a problem with counterfeiting and/or stealing property for resale on the black market. Essentially, these are copied off a number of successful frame designs, either with or without (I'd guess without) the same engineering and design that went into the originals. There's reasons that companies protect their designs and their products, and it's a pity that so many people simply don't care about the amount of sweat equity and flat out money that goes into engineering, testing, re-engineering, re-testing, producing, marketing, warrantying and supporting bikes. 

Honestly, I'm more of the opinion that if we keep looking at nothing but the bottom dollar, soon enough we will have nothing of quality remaining. And in the world of cycling, that is an utterly horrible thing to even think about.

Thank god for the small builders who pride themselves on craftsmanship above all else.

If you don't like hearing that, I'm sorry. But it IS a legitimate part of the debate between big name manufacturer bikes and chinese knockoff bikes, and it's a whole lot better to think about ALL the facts involved versus blindly following a group of people who say "this is awesome dude!"


----------



## cokex

robdamanii said:


> I don't really need to hear anything. I'm simply correcting the notion that buying a sub $1000 frame from china is the same as buying a $5000 Pinarello Prince. To claim anything otherwise is just...I can't even explain it.
> 
> Really, I don't have any issue with people riding more, but I DO have a problem with counterfeiting and/or stealing property for resale on the black market. Essentially, these are copied off a number of successful frame designs, either with or without (I'd guess without) the same engineering and design that went into the originals. There's reasons that companies protect their designs and their products, and it's a pity that so many people simply don't care about the amount of sweat equity and flat out money that goes into engineering, testing, re-engineering, re-testing, producing, marketing, warrantying and supporting bikes.
> 
> Honestly, I'm more of the opinion that if we keep looking at nothing but the bottom dollar, soon enough we will have nothing of quality remaining. And in the world of cycling, that is an utterly horrible thing to even think about.
> 
> Thank god for the small builders who pride themselves on craftsmanship above all else.


You seem like a smart guy .. but do you really think this thread is a place for you to express your feelings about China trade ?? 

If you feel so hi powered against it, do something about it. STOP ALL CHINA IMPORTS!

Everyone here is equal .. 10k bike guy or 2k Chinese carbon bike guy.. are they both reliable ?? yes.. can 2k bike guy out run 10k bike guy, possible.. Are they both extremely happy for riding ?? I'd hope yes.. 

My main reason for getting a bike is to forget about the day and world and just ride as fast as I can with no end in sight .. I need to relieve the days stress, smoke a J, ride a bike.. Hell yeah!

-b


----------



## Flyfinn

Seems my picture has once again stirred the hornets nest...

I'll take some better pictures of the BB etc - I've only found one paint blemish which is on the toptube internal cabling entry/exit point (which will be covered by the cabling anyways). Other than that it looks pretty good.
I had to sand by hand sand the smallest amount of resin away on the top to get the headset top bearing to seat properly.

Oddly enough I never requested the stickers for the bike and had it specifically painted pink for the missus. But the stickers are on and clearcoated so they arent coming off.

On the real vs fake debate I really dont care as it will be her ride once a week bike and it will be getting Sora/Tiagra parts from a donor bike that's getting a full Ultegra gruppo etc. 
I really dont think anyone really would believe what is a 4.5k frame here would have Tiagra/Sora components on it. 

Happy to take closeups etc for people wanting them to have a closer look



BB is english thread.


----------



## robdamanii

cokex said:


> I need to relieve the days stress, smoke a J, ride a bike.. Hell yeah!
> 
> -b


I could certainly get on board with that. Especially on those rough Mondays. :thumbsup:


----------



## boleiro

the problem here is that both sides to the argument have their truth... and then lots of opinion thrown on top. Which is neither incorrect or correct, its opinion. For me, to say the chinese distributors/manufacturers are producing counterfeit or illegal products is ridiculous. Can't speak for all of the frames and models, but for the one I've been looking at, FM001, which is obviously designed to look like the Kuota Kredo. But all you have to do is look at the breakdown of the geometry and you realize very quickly that it is no exact replica by any means. Knock off? yes. Counterfeit, well... only if the owner goes and puts branding all over it with the intent to make it look like the real thing. Thats up to the buyer, not the chinese manufacturer. Knockoff's are just that, a take on a popular design. This exists in any industry. It's not counterfeit or illegal unless you try to pass it off as an exclusive brand. Is this frame a kuota kredo? no. but does it have a good ride? thats why I'm in this forum. 

But, everyone is caught up in their own opinion. This is far from a debate as the trenches are dug and no one is budging.


----------



## paloaltorider

robdamanii said:


> I don't really need to hear anything. I'm simply correcting the notion that buying a sub $1000 frame from china is the same as buying a $5000 Pinarello Prince. To claim anything otherwise is just...I can't even explain it.
> ....
> If you don't like hearing that, I'm sorry. But it IS a legitimate part of the debate between big name manufacturer bikes and chinese knockoff bikes, and it's a whole lot better to think about ALL the facts involved versus blindly following a group of people who say "this is awesome dude!"


So i will venture into the hornets nest with you robdamanii...but I will take the opposite side. Knockoff products have come in to all industries. And frankly the bicycle manufacturing industry is probably one of the last industries to feel the inundation of cheap competitor products. The first mover advantage is a huge advantage in the market however, it is not a license for perpetuity. Do you use a computer, a cell phone, a car? If you do, you have taken advantage of the pricing power of "cheap" knockoffs. The incumbent always uses the argument of safety, fairness, killing domestic innovation as arguments to keep out the copy cats. You saw this with the Big 3 in Detroit with cars, Ma Bell with telephone services, Intel w/ CPU's, and IBM with PC's. If we followed your argument, we would be stuck with hugely expensive and problematic cars, telephones, and computers. I'm not saying that Intellectual property should not be protected but it is a fine balance between protecting IP and stifling competition for the consumer.

In terms of the xenophobic and nationalistic arguments of protecting domestic industries from "foreign invaders". This has been rehashed ad nauseum in the past. Look at the demonization of Japan for cars and Taiwan for semiconductors just to remind yourself.

And yes I do own numerous expensive bikes, but I have no delusions about their race worthiness as compared to a china knockoff. It's like my IWC watch, it tells time only as good as my cheap timex watch. 

I may want to pay 2000 times more for the IWC in part for the craftsmanship and no doubt for its exclusivity but it is no better functionally than the cheap one. Just my two cents.:thumbsup:


----------



## Surfr

So I've had a chance to unbox and start building my FM015 tonight. A couple of questions have arisen. 

1) There is a small hole or depression on the down tube about 2 inches up from the BB right in the middle. It looks as though it might be a factor of the moulding process. I've seen the same hole on someone else's photo so I'm not too worried. I just wondered what it was. 

2) There is a depression in the seat tube at around the point where the band for the front mech would clamp on. It faces the drive side at around 45 degrees and is approximately the size of a thumb imprint. Is this just for seating the mech band in or does it serve some other purpose? It's too far away from the chainset to be related to clearance of the chain rings.


----------



## vladvm

robdamanii said:


> I don't really need to hear anything. I'm simply correcting the notion that buying a sub $1000 frame from china is the same as buying a $5000 Pinarello Prince. To claim anything otherwise is just...I can't even explain it.


The Pinarello Prince bike ride is great because of the geometry - I think this is the reason Pinarello moulded their FP7, FP5 & FP3 after the Prince using lesser carbon fiber quality, which is most likely as my Chinese frame...


----------



## boleiro

paloaltorider, thanks for articulating my argument better than I did myself.


----------



## cokex

Surfr said:


> So I've had a chance to unbox and start building my FM015 tonight. A couple of questions have arisen.
> 
> 1) There is a small hole or depression on the down tube about 2 inches up from the BB right in the middle. It looks as though it might be a factor of the moulding process. I've seen the same hole on someone else's photo so I'm not too worried. I just wondered what it was.
> 
> 2) There is a depression in the seat tube at around the point where the band for the front mech would clamp on. It faces the drive side at around 45 degrees and is approximately the size of a thumb imprint. Is this just for seating the mech band in or does it serve some other purpose? It's too far away from the chainset to be related to clearance of the chain rings.


Sounds like you need a LBS to put your stuff together.. ask Platy..


----------



## Surfr

The seat tube depression is clear on this photo I found (not my bike)

http://cheapcarbonframes.com/forum/download/file.php?id=8


----------



## Surfr

cokex said:


> Sounds like you need a LBS to put your stuff together.. ask Platy..



What the hell are you talking about?


----------



## jparr

PlatyPius said:


> One more post and I'll leave it alone.
> 
> Does it not bother you at all that, one way or the other, you are buying an illegal product? Either the frame is a copy of a Pinarello - counterfeit - which is illegal, but nearly impossible to stop, or it's a real Pinarello going out the back door of the factory - ie: stolen intellectual property.
> 
> There is no "Yeah, but...." Anyone who buys a Chinarello is immoral and a criminal. Yeah, yeah...."You're a bike shop owner, of course you think that way!" I feel that way about ANY counterfeit/stolen merchandise. Someone was paid to come up with the design, do the testing, build the prototypes, carry the insurance, etc. Bypassing that is just f#$king WRONG. Why is that so hard for people to understand?
> 
> "I can't afford a real one!" Then don't freaking BUY a real one! Buy what you can afford; like an entry-level Trek. Hell, buy a BD bike. At least they are genuine bikes with a known lineage (mostly Fuji/Ideal).
> 
> People wonder why the world is as screwed up as it is right now; I suggest they look at these threads. This is what's wrong.


So then you don't buy generic prescriptions either?

There is a very good and sound argument for cost recovery of a design, however, in my opinion companies are building in a whole hell of a lot more than they have to. If a small time shop in China can produce frames, and sell them for $500ish, does someone like Pinarello, Trek, or Cervelo (seemingly the top three brands that are "ripped off") really have a good reason to sell their frames for five times that?


----------



## cokex

Surfr said:


> What the hell are you talking about?


I figure if you don't know what those things are, you won't be able to put a bike together properly .. 

I take it back tho, since I'm all for DIY and learning .. 

but sometimes safety is a concern ..

-b


----------



## PlatyPius

Surfr said:


> So I've had a chance to unbox and start building my FM015 tonight. A couple of questions have arisen.
> 
> 1) There is a small hole or depression on the down tube about 2 inches up from the BB right in the middle. It looks as though it might be a factor of the moulding process. I've seen the same hole on someone else's photo so I'm not too worried. I just wondered what it was.
> 
> 2) There is a depression in the seat tube at around the point where the band for the front mech would clamp on. It faces the drive side at around 45 degrees and is approximately the size of a thumb imprint. Is this just for seating the mech band in or does it serve some other purpose? It's too far away from the chainset to be related to clearance of the chain rings.


#2) That's clearance for the FD mechanism. It's normal.

Not sure on #1 unless it's the cable guide hole or maybe a Di2 battery mount hole.


----------



## beston

Surfr said:


> The seat tube depression is clear on this photo I found (not my bike)
> 
> http://cheapcarbonframes.com/forum/download/file.php?id=8


I have the same on my bike. It just gives the front derailleur a little more clearance. Nothing to worry about there.


----------



## beston

I'm all for the cheap chinese frames (I own a PF RS2) and I don't really want to get into this, but for some reason I feel the need to point out a major flaw in this argument.

When apple releases the iPhone or iPad, that there are several manufacturers that produce a very similar item at a reduced price. However, none of those other manufacturers call their knockoffs a 'iphone' or 'ipad'. Of course not. It's not an iphone and Apple would sue their ass! 

Now, say what you will about the look and the ride quality of these frames, but the company Pinarello sure as heck does not want their name associated with that frame.

Enjoy your Chinese carbon frame. They represent an unbeatable value in cycling. Just don't pass it off as something that it's not. 




paloaltorider said:


> So i will venture into the hornets nest with you robdamanii...but I will take the opposite side. Knockoff products have come in to all industries. And frankly the bicycle manufacturing industry is probably one of the last industries to feel the inundation of cheap competitor products. The first mover advantage is a huge advantage in the market however, it is not a license for perpetuity. Do you use a computer, a cell phone, a car? If you do, you have taken advantage of the pricing power of "cheap" knockoffs. The incumbent always uses the argument of safety, fairness, killing domestic innovation as arguments to keep out the copy cats. You saw this with the Big 3 in Detroit with cars, Ma Bell with telephone services, Intel w/ CPU's, and IBM with PC's. If we followed your argument, we would be stuck with hugely expensive and problematic cars, telephones, and computers. I'm not saying that Intellectual property should not be protected but it is a fine balance between protecting IP and stifling competition for the consumer.
> 
> In terms of the xenophobic and nationalistic arguments of protecting domestic industries from "foreign invaders". This has been rehashed ad nauseum in the past. Look at the demonization of Japan for cars and Taiwan for semiconductors just to remind yourself.
> 
> And yes I do own numerous expensive bikes, but I have no delusions about their race worthiness as compared to a china knockoff. It's like my IWC watch, it tells time only as good as my cheap timex watch.
> 
> I may want to pay 2000 times more for the IWC in part for the craftsmanship and no doubt for its exclusivity but it is no better functionally than the cheap one. Just my two cents.:thumbsup:


----------



## robdamanii

paloaltorider said:


> So i will venture into the hornets nest with you robdamanii...but I will take the opposite side. Knockoff products have come in to all industries. And frankly the bicycle manufacturing industry is probably one of the last industries to feel the inundation of cheap competitor products. The first mover advantage is a huge advantage in the market however, it is not a license for perpetuity. Do you use a computer, a cell phone, a car? If you do, you have taken advantage of the pricing power of "cheap" knockoffs. The incumbent always uses the argument of safety, fairness, killing domestic innovation as arguments to keep out the copy cats. You saw this with the Big 3 in Detroit with cars, Ma Bell with telephone services, Intel w/ CPU's, and IBM with PC's. If we followed your argument, we would be stuck with hugely expensive and problematic cars, telephones, and computers. I'm not saying that Intellectual property should not be protected but it is a fine balance between protecting IP and stifling competition for the consumer.
> 
> In terms of the xenophobic and nationalistic arguments of protecting domestic industries from "foreign invaders". This has been rehashed ad nauseum in the past. Look at the demonization of Japan for cars and Taiwan for semiconductors just to remind yourself.
> 
> And yes I do own numerous expensive bikes, but I have no delusions about their race worthiness as compared to a china knockoff. It's like my IWC watch, it tells time only as good as my cheap timex watch.
> 
> I may want to pay 2000 times more for the IWC in part for the craftsmanship and no doubt for its exclusivity but it is no better functionally than the cheap one. Just my two cents.:thumbsup:


First point:
I use a Mac, Iphone and drive a Subaru. I don't see many knockoffs of those products. Actually, I shouldn't say "knockoff" since a lot of the smartphones are modeled after the iPhone style. I should say "counterfeit," since that is the big pet peeve with Pinarello.

Second point:
I'm not demonizing foreign manufacturing, per se. I'm demonizing cheap, poor quality engineering and manufacture/quality control. The issue I have is that people _assume_ that the product they are ordering is of the same quality and craftsmanship that one would get using a company like Pinarello (using the "chinarello" example.) Sadly, that is not the case. Sure, a knockoff Rolex will tell time, but will it last, be as robust or repairable as a real one? Doubtful. 

I can certainly tell the difference between my cheap Timex sports watch and my Seamaster. I'd wager the same goes for a $10k Pinarello vs a $500 "chinarello."

But yes, if price and basic functionality are the only issues, then sure. A Schwinn "would work" well enough if that's all you care about. But when that Schwinn is painted up and labeled "Independent Fabrications" then it's a whole new ball game.



vladvm said:


> The Pinarello Prince bike ride is great because of the geometry - I think this is the reason Pinarello moulded their FP7, FP5 & FP3 after the Prince using lesser carbon fiber quality, which is most likely as my Chinese frame...


"Which is most likely the _same_ as my Chinese frame..." is what I'm expecting you're meaning.

How do you know? Is the same carbon weave used? The same modulus? The same layup? The exact same amount of resin? The same curing time and temperature?

If all that were true, then the frame weights of these should match Pinarello frames exactly. I'm curious to know if someone has measured them yet.

And then there's the pesky Italian threads issue...



jparr said:


> So then you don't buy generic prescriptions either?
> 
> There is a very good and sound argument for cost recovery of a design, however, in my opinion companies are building in a whole hell of a lot more than they have to. If a small time shop in China can produce frames, and sell them for $500ish, does someone like Pinarello, Trek, or Cervelo (seemingly the top three brands that are "ripped off") really have a good reason to sell their frames for five times that?


Do you know what the cost to bring a frame from concept to production is? That's what you pay for, along with a name. Research, prototyping, testing, engineering, cutting moulds (by god, I think at one point there was discussion of a special mould for Boonen's bike which cost well into the 6 figures...for ONE bike mould)...it's not a cheap process.

And it's a process that's much akin to the cost of prescription drug development. Now the question is: would you take prescription drugs from China without knowing anything about their manufacture, without anyone watching over them to ensure safety? I sure a hell wouldn't...


----------



## mrbubbles

robdamanii said:


> Too bad it's not identical. Just because it looks the same doesn't mean it is...


They are identical, the geometry is. Most likely using the same carbon fiber that is used in "real" Pinarellos. 

I see this all the time for East Asian oems and branded products. It's usually the branding and the associated cost that demands the premium. 

When there's an option to acquire the same identical product sans paint for a fraction of the price, why not? Why do you hate consumer freedom?


----------



## stonedead

Surfr said:


> 1) There is a small hole or depression on the down tube about 2 inches up from the BB right in the middle. It looks as though it might be a factor of the moulding process. I've seen the same hole on someone else's photo so I'm not too worried. I just wondered what it was.



Its to allow water drainage.....


----------



## vladvm

robdamanii said:


> Is the same carbon weave used? The same modulus? The same layup? The exact same amount of resin? The same curing time and temperature?
> 
> If all that were true, then the frame weights of these should match Pinarello frames exactly. I'm curious to know if someone has measured them yet.


Yes, same carbon weave 3k, 
yes same modulus (high-modulus), 
yes, same lay-up, 
No, resin varies from frame to frame, 
No curing time and temperature varies from batch to batch to make carbon frame
Yes, same weight to comparable Pinarello size with paint.


----------



## robdamanii

mrbubbles said:


> They are identical, the geometry is. Most likely using the same carbon fiber that is used in "real" Pinarellos.
> 
> I see this all the time for East Asian oems and branded products. It's usually the branding and the associated cost that demands the premium.
> 
> When there's an option to acquire the same identical product sans paint for a fraction of the price, why not? Why do you hate consumer freedom?


IF this is OEM, then explain why it has an english bottom bracket when all high end Pinarellos (which your bike supposedly is) have Italian threads?

Why do I hate consumer freedom? I don't. I hate consumer stupidity that says "this generic brand X frame is the same as boutique brand Y frame" when it clearly is not. Paint and branding does not command that premium. The research, development and testing of that and the next generation of items commands that premium, not to mention post sale support and quality control. 

And frankly, if this IS OEM from Pinarello's factory, then it's either reject or stolen property. Is either one acceptable to buy?


----------



## robdamanii

vladvm said:


> Yes, same carbon weave 3k,
> yes same modulus (high-modulus),
> yes, same lay-up,
> No, resin varies from frame to frame,
> No curing time and temperature varies from batch to batch to make carbon frame
> Yes, same weight to comparable Pinarello size with paint.


So you actually typed the brand and modulus of carbon in the factory? 
You actually dissected the frame to see the layup?
Resin is the same (within a margin of error) frame to fram, so is curing time/temperature.

And show me the weight comparison.

And how did you get an english bottom bracket in an exclusively Italian BB frame? I'm vastly curious to know.


----------



## zender

I'm curious about the hole in the downtube that was described. If it's not a cable exit hole, then what? The location doesn't sound like a good spot for water drainage. I thought the Di2 battery mounts on the top surface of the downtube, not under it.


----------



## mrbubbles

robdamanii said:


> 1.) IF this is OEM, then explain why it has an english bottom bracket when all high end Pinarellos (which your bike supposedly is) have Italian threads?
> 
> Why do I hate consumer freedom? I don't. 2.) I hate consumer stupidity that says "this generic brand X frame is the same as boutique brand Y frame" when it clearly is not. Paint and branding does not command that premium. The research, development and testing of that and the next generation of items commands that premium, not to mention post sale support and quality control.
> 
> 3.) And frankly, if this IS OEM from Pinarello's factory, then it's either reject or stolen property. Is either one acceptable to buy?


1.) Insider agreements perhaps? BB shell threading isn't as complex as you make it out to be, I'm sure you can also request Italian threading if you really wanted it. 

2.) What if it is the same? If you actually believe what you wrote, you probably don't want to meet manufacturers (even big name ones) who simply picked an off-the-shell product and stick their brand name on to it. This business-to-business transaction is fairly common. 

3.) That's false dilemma, could be a multiple reasons, the most likely would be off quota production. Manufacturers can and are willing to make outside the stated number of production quotas.


----------



## FTR

Rob
The Italian BB issue is only an ISSUE if you actually WANT an Italian BB.
If you dont WANT an Italian BB it is not an ISSUE.
What you are asking is as much a NON-ISSUE as the purists who question why a real Pinarello is not running Campagnolo.


----------



## zender

mrbubbles said:


> 3.) That's false dilemma, could be a multiple reasons, the most likely would be off quota production. Manufacturers can and are willing to make outside the stated number of production quotas.



This is and has been true of Chinese manufacturers for some time. They produce X number of units to some QA standard during the day, then use the same molds/jigs/tooling to produce a bunch more at night. Naturally, the distributor who markets and designs the original item may not be happy with this, but when there are no options to stay cost competitive, they just deal.

Let's face it, Rolex is not going to go out of business because of $100 replicas, and Ferrari isn't going out of business because some ricer puts Type R on their civintegra (ok that one is a bit dated). The high end market just has to adapt their business model to deal with immitators.

By the way, no copies of Macintosh and iphone? The Windows and Droid OS's come to mind.


----------



## PlatyPius

zender said:


> I'm curious about the hole in the downtube that was described. If it's not a cable exit hole, then what? The location doesn't sound like a good spot for water drainage. I thought the Di2 battery mounts on the top surface of the downtube, not under it.


Many mount under the downtube.
Without a picture, though, I really have no idea what the hole is for.
I *can* guarantee you that it isn't for drainage.


----------



## PlatyPius

FTR said:


> Rob
> The Italian BB issue is only an ISSUE if you actually WANT an Italian BB.
> If you dont WANT an Italian BB it is not an ISSUE.
> What you are asking is as much a NON-ISSUE as the purists who question why a real Pinarello is not running Campagnolo.


The point he's making is that it CAN'T be an OEM Pinarello frame if it has an English bottom bracket. Unless they're helicoiling the 70mm BB shell and machining 2mm off of each one.


----------



## robdamanii

mrbubbles said:


> 1.) Insider agreements perhaps? BB shell threading isn't as complex as you make it out to be, I'm sure you can also request Italian threading if you really wanted it.
> 
> 2.) What if it is the same? If you actually believe what you wrote, you probably don't want to meet manufacturers (even big name ones) who simply picked an off-the-shell product and stick their brand name on to it. This business-to-business transaction is fairly common.
> 
> 3.) That's false dilemma, could be a multiple reasons, the most likely would be off quota production. Manufacturers can and are willing to make outside the stated number of production quotas.


So you're telling me that Pinarello is OK with selling OEM products? You're missing the point here dude. You can't buy a real Pinarello with a BSA bottom bracket, so why would they OK selling them as OEM

Furthermore, why would they OK OEM sales anyway? Are they in the business of cutting into their own sales? If they wanted that market segment, they would make a bike to FIT that market segment. Your argument makes zero logical sense in any business model. 




FTR said:


> Rob
> The Italian BB issue is only an ISSUE if you actually WANT an Italian BB.
> If you dont WANT an Italian BB it is not an ISSUE.
> What you are asking is as much a NON-ISSUE as the purists who question why a real Pinarello is not running Campagnolo.


That's not the issue. The issue is that production Pinarellos do not come in BSA threading, therefore the idea that a "Pinarello OEM" bike having BSA threading is false.


----------



## FTR

PlatyPius said:


> The point he's making is that it CAN'T be an OEM Pinarello frame if it has an English bottom bracket. Unless they're helicoiling the 70mm BB shell and machining 2mm off of each one.


Sorry, it is getting harder and harder to keep up with Rob's points.


----------



## robdamanii

zender said:


> This is and has been true of Chinese manufacturers for some time. They produce X number of units to some QA standard during the day, then use the same molds/jigs/tooling to produce a bunch more at night. Naturally, the distributor who markets and designs the original item may not be happy with this, but when there are no options to stay cost competitive, they just deal.
> 
> Let's face it, Rolex is not going to go out of business because of $100 replicas, and Ferrari isn't going out of business because some ricer puts Type R on their civintegra (ok that one is a bit dated). The high end market just has to adapt their business model to deal with immitators.
> 
> By the way, no copies of Macintosh and iphone? The Windows and Droid OS's come to mind.


Then why not go whole hog and use EXACTLY the same specs, such as BB threading? Why? Because it is NOT the same production as a Pinarello, that's why.

As for the iPhone issue, yes, I corrected this to read "counterfeits" instead of "knockoffs."


----------



## mrbubbles

robdamanii said:


> 1. So you're telling me that Pinarello is OK with selling OEM products? You're missing the point here dude. You can't buy a real Pinarello with a BSA bottom bracket, so why would they OK selling them as OEM
> 
> Furthermore, why would they OK OEM sales anyway? Are they in the business of cutting into their own sales? 2. If they wanted that market segment, they would make a bike to FIT that market segment. Your argument makes zero logical sense in any business model.


1. Of course not, but that's not for them to decide. Pinarello have made agreements with a company that has openly used their mold to make extra quotas outside the stated agreements. 

2. Yeah, Pinarello is in the business of selling $500 frames with crap margins. For Pinarello to make a bike to fit this market segment would be shooting themselves in the foot by killing their prestige. These oem frames are a tiny fraction of their sales and profit, most big pocket buyers don't even know about these guys. It's easier for Pinarello to just come up with an ad about fake frames and be done with it. $500 buyers aren't going to shell out for $5000 frame anyways. No loss.


----------



## PlatyPius

mrbubbles said:


> 1. Of course not, but that's not for them to decide. *Pinarello have made agreements with a company that has openly used their mold to make extra quotas outside the stated agreements. *


NO THEY HAVEN'T. Jesus.
Everybody says this crap. "There are only 3 carbon manufacturers in China, so it's likely the same one!"

Then who the hell is Hong Fu? Seems they're making carbon frames, and they aren't 1 of the 3. There are probably a dozen or more of these shady little factories producing COPIES of known frames.


----------



## robdamanii

mrbubbles said:


> 1. Of course not, but that's not for them to decide. Pinarello have made agreements with a company that has openly used their mold to make extra quotas outside the stated agreements.
> 
> 2. Yeah, Pinarello is in the business of selling $500 frames with crap margins. For Pinarello to make a bike to fit this market segment would be shooting themselves in the foot by killing their prestige. These oem frames are a tiny fraction of their sales and profit, most big pocket buyers don't even know about these guys. It's easier for Pinarello to just come up with an ad about fake frames and be done with it. $500 buyers aren't going to shell out for $5000 frame anyways. No loss.


1: So then they are making illegal copies of a frame, with a different BB configuration than they make during the day? You keep forgetting that IF it were "extra quota" outside their stated agreement, it would be exactly the same frame. It is not. Not to mention the factories are not even in the same locale...but that doesn't mean anything, right?

2: All well and good until someone paints it up as a Prince and sells it online. THAT cuts into their profits. Do you think they would allow that? Somehow I think they are slightly better businesspeople than that...

Edited to add: Your second point is further rendered null by the fact that a large number of manufacturers have both extremely high end and extremely low end lines. You're going to sit there and tell me that a Colnago Prima for about $1250 damages the prestige of the Colnago brand? I call BS.


----------



## WheresWaldo

boleiro said:


> Little Help WheresWaldo!!!! great post I found of yours in another thread on how to calculate Stack and Reach for a frame from the cad drawings. As I can't find the measurements for the FM001, I was thrilled with your post. It took me all of 3 minutes to realize that I'm shite at math, only got as far as Geometry and that was over 20 years ago!
> 
> I'm good with the formulas except the Sin and Tan portions? Please help. Really want to find out the stack and reach for the fm001.
> 
> Code:
> STACK = 70 + ( 368 + 150 ) * SIN ( 72.5)
> STACK = 70 + ( 518 ) * 0.9537
> STACK = 70 + 494.0253
> STACK = 564.0253
> 
> REACH = 548.5 - 564.0 / TAN (73.5)
> REACH = 548.5 - 564.0 / 3.3759
> REACH = 548.5 - 167.0644
> REACH = 381.4355


The site CheapCabonFrames already has a page that lists all the stack and reach numbers and will calculate unknown for you. Go there and you won't have to do the math yourself.


----------



## vladvm

robdamanii said:


> So you actually typed the brand and modulus of carbon in the factory?
> You actually dissected the frame to see the layup?
> Resin is the same (within a margin of error) frame to fram, so is curing time/temperature.
> 
> And show me the weight comparison.
> 
> And how did you get an english bottom bracket in an exclusively Italian BB frame? I'm vastly curious to know.


No.
No.
Look at eBay listing for weight comparison.
I bought one with English thread, I have a Chinese frame with pinarelloish quality.


----------



## cokex

vladvm said:


> No.
> No.
> Look at eBay listing for weight comparison.
> I bought one with English thread, I have a Chinese frame with pinarello *quality*.


I'd say style here .. since we don't know how "fake" or not.

Lots of assumptions going now, and all the points are moot.

I still like to think that there are only 3 carbon bike making factories, and through the chinese connection, friends of friends are hooking up friends to sell online and over seas.. who knows. I"m sure these people are not getting rich selling to the public, which seems to be a lot of work.

Nothing here is factual, other than these are not coming from a Pinarello dealer. 

It's entertaining to see everyone's difference of opinion, because we are in left and right fields, over all of it.


----------



## robdamanii

vladvm said:


> No.
> No.
> Look at eBay listing for weight comparison.
> I bought one with English thread, I have a Chinese frame with pinarello quality.


Didn't think so.
Didn't think so.
Anyone can SAY what the weight is. I want someone to show me that a Pinarello Prince and a comparable Chinese version are the same.
And you didn't buy a Pinarello, or a Pinarello OEM. You certainly didn't buy one with a BSA BB, since they're not out there. You bought a chinese frame. You can only guess that it may come close to Pinarello quality, mainly because it is not a Pinarello.

Bottom line is this: 
You got a chinese bike that looks like a Pinarello. Looks. That's all. If it rides well and you enjoy it, good for you. But passing it off AS the real thing, or assuming it IS the real thing is incorrect and misleading.


----------



## mrbubbles

robdamanii said:


> 1: So then they are making illegal copies of a frame, with a different BB configuration than they make during the day? You keep forgetting that IF it were "extra quota" outside their stated agreement, it would be exactly the same frame. It is not. Not to mention the factories are not even in the same locale...but that doesn't mean anything, right?
> 
> 2: All well and good until someone paints it up as a Prince and sells it online. THAT cuts into their profits. Do you think they would allow that? Somehow I think they are slightly better businesspeople than that...
> 
> Edited to add: Your second point is further rendered null by the fact that a large number of manufacturers have both extremely high end and extremely low end lines. You're going to sit there and tell me that a Colnago Prima for about $1250 damages the prestige of the Colnago brand? I call BS.



1. Taiwan and China doesn't differentiate too much, lots of Taiwanese manufacturers have production facilities in China. Most likely these products come from the same moulds and using the same carbon fiber, so essentially they are the same product (sans paint). These days Asian manufacturers have the freedom to go outside the stated contracts and do as they wish, and considering the margins Pinarello is getting away with, it's not that big of an issue to go after. 

2. In that case it's outright fraud. As for your addendum, nothing is "further rendered null", their low end lines are occupied by cheaper products (like aluminum frames and lower componentry), not in the same class of product with identical geometry of a $5000 frame.


----------



## paloaltorider

beston said:


> I'm all for the cheap chinese frames (I own a PF RS2) and I don't really want to get into this, but for some reason I feel the need to point out a major flaw in this argument.
> 
> When apple releases the iPhone or iPad, that there are several manufacturers that produce a very similar item at a reduced price. However, none of those other manufacturers call their knockoffs a 'iphone' or 'ipad'. Of course not. It's not an iphone and Apple would sue their ass!
> 
> Now, say what you will about the look and the ride quality of these frames, but the company Pinarello sure as heck does not want their name associated with that frame.
> 
> Enjoy your Chinese carbon frame. They represent an unbeatable value in cycling. Just don't pass it off as something that it's not.


Actually you are not entirely correct. Although the manufacturers of android based mobile phones are not calling their product an iPhone, they are still getting sued by Apple. At this point there are several lawsuits occurring in regards to intellectual property on the mobile computing platforms aka Ipad and Iphone. Apple is suing HTC at this time on patent infringement. Paul Allen is suing everyone apple, google, and several other tech companies b/c he has a patent holding company. Patent holding companies collect a portfolio of patents in order to stake claims on future technological developments. They do not do the heavy lifting of actually developing products. However, if another company does develop a product that is wildly successful, these patent companies sue. This whole realm of IP is rife with controversy. Can you patent a gene even though you are not the creator (God if you believe in him is the creator) i.e. can I patent the BRCA1 gene for breast cancer even though I never developed this gene. Can I patent your gene in order to charge you for breast cancer detection. Now is this fair? I don't have the answer but it is not as clear cut as we would like to think.

I don't support counterfeiting products but I also don't go on the war path if someone wears a fake rolex or a fake IWC. Why? B/C if they get enjoyment out of it, that is awesome. But as a true connoisseur of fine watches I can tell the difference. The day I can't means that that is a pretty damn good watch and I'd buy the counterfeit since it would save me a pretty penny.


----------



## vladvm

robdamanii said:


> Didn't think so.
> Didn't think so.
> Anyone can SAY what the weight is. I want someone to show me that a Pinarello Prince and a comparable Chinese version are the same.
> And you didn't buy a Pinarello, or a Pinarello OEM. You certainly didn't buy one with a BSA BB, since they're not out there. You bought a chinese frame. You can only guess that it may come close to Pinarello quality, mainly because it is not a Pinarello.
> 
> Bottom line is this:
> You got a chinese bike that looks like a Pinarello. Looks. That's all. If it rides well and you enjoy it, good for you. But passing it off AS the real thing, or assuming it IS the real thing is incorrect and misleading.


Exactly, it is a cheap light carbon fiber bike frame with excellent ride quality I enjoy much more than my brand name bikes. And as a bonus, everyone I know outside the Internet are impressed with it. Anyone is free to think it's real OEM direct from factory.


----------



## vladvm

cokex said:


> I'd say style here .. since we don't know how "fake" or not.
> 
> Lots of assumptions going now, and all the points are moot.
> 
> I still like to think that there are only 3 carbon bike making factories, and through the chinese connection, friends of friends are hooking up friends to sell online and over seas.. who knows. I"m sure these people are not getting rich selling to the public, which seems to be a lot of work.
> 
> Nothing here is factual, other than these are not coming from a Pinarello dealer.
> 
> It's entertaining to see everyone's difference of opinion, because we are in left and right fields, over all of it.


Edited as pinarelloish quality.


----------



## petepeterson

I find the idea of a naked carbon brandless bike to be so appealing. That's why I'm ordering a matte fm015 shortly. 
Because of this mostly aesthetic preference the china Pinarellos aren't for me. That said I don't understand why some are so passionately judgmental towards those who are happy to ride a bike that represents a Pinarello. If it makes you happy and you aren't hurting anyone then I say who cares? I suppose the LBS cares as they feel it hurts them which may explain recent conversation in this thread. I think those people have to look at the broader issues involving contemporary communication and its effect on economies. Who here buys music on CDs? Economies evolve. 

I think I am going to forward this thread to bikesnobny....


----------



## robdamanii

mrbubbles said:


> 1. Taiwan and China doesn't differentiate too much, lots of Taiwanese manufacturers have production facilities in China. Most likely these products come from the same moulds and using the same carbon fiber, so essentially they are the same product (sans paint). These days Asian manufacturers have the freedom to go outside the stated contracts and do as they wish, and considering the margins Pinarello is getting away with, it's not that big of an issue to go after.
> 
> 2. In that case it's outright fraud. As for your addendum, nothing is "further rendered null", their low end lines are occupied by cheaper products (like aluminum frames and lower componentry), not in the same class of product with identical geometry of a $5000 frame.


Actually, I believe your point was that a lower price point would shoot themselves in the foot:



> Yeah, Pinarello is in the business of selling $500 frames with crap margins. For Pinarello to make a bike to fit this market segment would be shooting themselves in the foot by killing their prestige. These oem frames are a tiny fraction of their sales and profit, most big pocket buyers don't even know about these guys. It's easier for Pinarello to just come up with an ad about fake frames and be done with it. $500 buyers aren't going to shell out for $5000 frame anyways. No loss.


Note that Pinarello COULD make a bike in that market segment and make quite a pretty penny on it. For the most part, lower end models are the bread and butter of any company's revenue. You think Trek makes more on the Madone 6 series than the lowest end aluminum models? I'm not talking per unit, I'm talking as a percentage of income. 

Pinarello didn't make that price point because they chose not to. Do you think they want someone else making that price point using their technology, their moulds and their designs? Somehow I doubt it. Frankly, the fact that Pinarello would allow their moulds (property) to manufacture something that is gray/black market and not do anything about it doesn't jive with good business practices. I doubt they'd allow it, and I highly doubt they'd remain contracted to a factory that did so.


----------



## robdamanii

petepeterson said:


> I find the idea of a naked carbon brandless bike to be so appealing. That's why I'm ordering a matte fm015 shortly.
> Because of this mostly aesthetic preference the china Pinarellos aren't for me. That said I don't understand why some are so passionately judgmental towards those who are happy to ride a bike that represents a Pinarello. If it makes you happy and you aren't hurting anyone then I say who cares? I suppose the LBS cares as they feel it hurts them which may explain recent conversation in this thread. I think those people have to look at the broader issues involving contemporary communication and its effect on economies. Who here buys music on CDs? Economies evolve.
> 
> I think I am going to forward this thread to bikesnobny....


You're right. I don't much mind naked carbon brandless bikes. 

My issue is that someone is basically counterfeiting an item. It's not a victimless crime (although I'm waiting for someone to complain about the "awesome huge margin" on bikes) in that it puts counterfeit merchandise out there for people to either buy or associate with the name brand. That's not a good thing.

The evolution of CD to MP3 is a non-sequitur argument.


----------



## vladvm

petepeterson said:


> I find the idea of a naked carbon brandless bike to be so appealing. That's why I'm ordering a matte fm015 shortly.
> Because of this mostly aesthetic preference the china Pinarellos aren't for me. That said I don't understand why some are so passionately judgmental towards those who are happy to ride a bike that represents a Pinarello. If it makes you happy and you aren't hurting anyone then I say who cares? I suppose the LBS cares as they feel it hurts them which may explain recent conversation in this thread. I think those people have to look at the broader issues involving contemporary communication and its effect on economies. Who here buys music on CDs? Economies evolve.
> 
> I think I am going to forward this thread to bikesnobny....


Yeah, I like the unpainted frames, more customizable, more personalized. I admire those people who do a great job assembling these frames from scratch, fixing problems and making them look beautiful. They learned how everything is put together, and take more pride on the bike they actually assembled. You will be very happy with your purchase. Goodluck!


----------



## paloaltorider

robdamanii said:


> Didn't think so.
> Didn't think so.
> Anyone can SAY what the weight is. I want someone to show me that a Pinarello Prince and a comparable Chinese version are the same.
> And you didn't buy a Pinarello, or a Pinarello OEM. You certainly didn't buy one with a BSA BB, since they're not out there. You bought a chinese frame. You can only guess that it may come close to Pinarello quality, mainly because it is not a Pinarello.
> 
> Bottom line is this:
> You got a chinese bike that looks like a Pinarello. Looks. That's all. If it rides well and you enjoy it, good for you. But passing it off AS the real thing, or assuming it IS the real thing is incorrect and misleading.


robdamanii,

You sound like a really decent guy. You have a high ethical standard and believe in the sanctity of brands. I guess my biggest inquiry is why such a militancy towards the knock offs? I don't think that people who really know pinarello's would be confused by a knock off. They would know it is a knock off and that would be it. 

It's kind of like my wife and her expensive shoe habit. She has a bunch of those christian louboutin's. She can spot a fake a mile away. She knows when another woman is wearing a fake. She doesn't get all up in arms about it; she doesn't get sanctimonious about it. Does it really matter to her if they try to pass off the fake as a real. No not at all. b/c she is totally secure in the idea that she bought the real thing. Hell, she buys some of the fake ones when we are vacationing in asia just to compare the quality. It's all good.

I guess in the end, I can't understand the offense that is taken by a counterfeit. I truly believe in the saying that "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery". The only potential reason I can see for such a feeling is if you are threatened by the potential dilution of the pinarello brand. But then to me, you are buying the brand only to impress others. Let others be pretenders, take the high road and know that you are authentic:thumbsup:


----------



## Cinelli 82220

PlatyPius said:


> The point he's making is that it CAN'T be an OEM Pinarello frame if it has an English bottom bracket. Unless they're helicoiling the 70mm BB shell and machining 2mm off of each one.


Uhhhh...not at all correct.

The BB "threads" are just an alloy or ti sleeve inserted into the carbon BB shell.How difficult is it to insert an English threaded sleeve instead of an Italian threaded sleeve?
How much difference to the ride quality of a Pinarello Dogma or Prince would it make if the BB was English instead of Italian? I mean to a normal person, not some foaming-at-the-mouth faboy.
It is easy to imagine some fabricator putting in English sleeves because they are easier to sell on EBay than the slightly inferior Italian thread. Even Cinelli has begun using English threads in their top of the line XCr instead of BB30.
Supply chain management in a faraway place is very difficult, even if Pinarello has onsite personnel. Colnago had trouble maintaining quality from their subcontractors during the bike boom in the seventies, and those subcontractors were right in Italy.

Disclosure-I doubt these frames are OEM Pinarellos but this debate is hilarious!


----------



## PlatyPius

paloaltorider said:


> robdamanii,
> 
> You sound like a really decent guy. You have a high ethical standard and believe in the sanctity of brands. I guess my biggest inquiry is why such a militancy towards the knock offs? I don't think that people who really know pinarello's would be confused by a knock off. They would know it is a knock off and that would be it.
> 
> It's kind of like my wife and her expensive shoe habit. She has a bunch of those christian louboutin's. She can spot a fake a mile away. She knows when another woman is wearing a fake. She doesn't get all up in arms about it; she doesn't get sanctimonious about it. Does it really matter to her if they try to pass off the fake as a real. No not at all. b/c she is totally secure in the idea that she bought the real thing. Hell, she buys some of the fake ones when we are vacationing in asia just to compare the quality. It's all good.
> 
> I guess in the end, I can't understand the offense that is taken by a counterfeit. I truly believe in the saying that "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery". The only potential reason I can see for such a feeling is if you are threatened by the potential dilution of the pinarello brand. But then to me, you are buying the brand only to impress others. Let others be pretenders, take the high road and know that you are authentic:thumbsup:


Does this apply to other things, too?
Counterfeiting is illegal, and we have at least one very obvious counterfeit in this thread. What other illegal things should we overlook because we know that *we* have the legal version? Drugs? I have a prescription, you don't. Guns? Mine was purchased from a dealer and is registered, yours came from Bob the Gun Guy on a street corner. And you have a felony record. But I shouldn't worry about that because mine is legal, right? What about wives/girlfriends? My wife *looks* like she's 17, but yours is. But it's okay, right, because I know that *my* wife is of legal age...

Why are some crimes okay if they "don't affect you"?

Some things are just morally wrong. There's no "it doesn't affect me" to it. NAMBLA is wrong, murder is wrong, theft is wrong, and counterfeiting is wrong. Where is the grey?


----------



## robdamanii

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Uhhhh...not at all correct.
> 
> The BB "threads" are just an alloy or ti sleeve inserted into the carbon BB shell.How difficult is it to insert an English threaded sleeve instead of an Italian threaded sleeve?
> How much difference to the ride quality of a Pinarello Dogma or Prince would it make if the BB was English instead of Italian? I mean to a normal person, not some foaming-at-the-mouth faboy.
> It is easy to imagine some fabricator putting in English sleeves because they are easier to sell on EBay than the slightly inferior Italian thread. Even Cinelli has begun using English threads in their top of the line XCr instead of BB30.
> Supply chain management in a faraway place is very difficult, even if Pinarello has onsite personnel. Colnago had trouble maintaining quality from their subcontractors during the bike boom in the seventies, and those subcontractors were right in Italy.
> 
> Disclosure-I doubt these frames are OEM Pinarellos but this debate is hilarious!


You're still missing the point.

Pinarello specs italian BB threads. These do not have italian BB threads. Therefore, these are not Pinarellos.

The BB selection doesn't make a damn bit of difference to ride quality, but the simple fact remains: if these were Pinarello frames made in the same factory, after hours, or rejects from QC, they would be exactly the same specs of Pinarello frames. 

Lex parsimoniae. We should tend toward the simplest answer in the absence of substantial proof otherwise. The simple answer is: this is not an OEM product, but a copy.

Like I've said before: if price is the only/primary motivator in selecting these frames, have at it. Looking beyond price, that's where the discussion gets murky.


----------



## paloaltorider

PlatyPius said:


> Does this apply to other things, too?
> Counterfeiting is illegal, and we have at least one very obvious counterfeit in this thread. What other illegal things should we overlook because we know that *we* have the legal version? Drugs? I have a prescription, you don't. Guns? Mine was purchased from a dealer and is registered, yours came from Bob the Gun Guy on a street corner. And you have a felony record. But I shouldn't worry about that because mine is legal, right? What about wives/girlfriends? My wife *looks* like she's 17, but yours is. But it's okay, right, because I know that *my* wife is of legal age...
> 
> Why are some crimes okay if they "don't affect you"?
> 
> Some things are just morally wrong. There's no "it doesn't affect me" to it. NAMBLA is wrong, murder is wrong, theft is wrong, and counterfeiting is wrong. Where is the grey?


I understand your line of thinking. I just don't agree with it. The "give an inch take a mile" argument is always used in politics to polarize society. It draws a line in the sand and creates absolutes. I do believe that is why we have such bitter discourse between the republicans and democrats at this time.

I think as all adults or I hope as adults, we understand that life is definitely filled with shades of grey. I do find it hilarious (and slightly disturbing) that you are trying to draw my argument out as thus an approval for illicit drug use, statutory rape, and felons having hand guns. I do hope that you see how absurd that is.


----------



## petepeterson

paloaltorider said:


> I understand your line of thinking. I just don't agree with it. The "give an inch take a mile" argument is always used in politics to polarize society. It draws a line in the sand and creates absolutes. I do believe that is why we have such bitter discourse between the republicans and democrats at this time.
> 
> I think as all adults or I hope as adults, we understand that life is definitely filled with shades of grey. I do find it hilarious (and slightly disturbing) that you are trying to draw my argument out as thus an approval for illicit drug use, statutory rape, and felons having hand guns. I do hope that you see how absurd that is.



If you buy a china frame you support the terrorists!


----------



## vladvm

robdamanii said:


> You're still missing the point.
> 
> Pinarello specs italian BB threads. These do not have italian BB threads. Therefore, these are not Pinarellos.


Meh, no one will ever know really...


----------



## vladvm

petepeterson said:


> If you buy a china frame you support the terrorists!


Pinarello is made in china.


----------



## paloaltorider

petepeterson said:


> If you buy a china frame you support the terrorists!


Now this is funny:thumbsup:


----------



## paloaltorider

vladvm said:


> Pinarello is made in china.


And this is how we define irony:thumbsup:


----------



## stevesbike

the counterfeit Pinarello represents a danger mostly to its buyer, who either ignores or just doesn't know the reality about them. 

-They are made from old molds Pinarello discards because they no longer make frames within spec. They are stolen from their waste and sent to mainland China from Taiwan (where Pinarellos are made).

They are made with low grade and scrap (ends) of carbon cloth. Less material is used to match weights.

If you don't believe me, find the Spanish forum with the group buy that went bad and the pics of broken frames. 

Why would you trust someone who knowingly makes a counterfeit frame to have any scruples about quality????


----------



## FTR

stevesbike said:


> the counterfeit Pinarello represents a danger mostly to its buyer, who either ignores or just doesn't know the reality about them.
> 
> -They are made from old molds Pinarello discards because they no longer make frames within spec. They are stolen from their waste and sent to mainland China from Taiwan (where Pinarellos are made).
> 
> They are made with low grade and scrap (ends) of carbon cloth. Less material is used to match weights.
> 
> If you don't believe me, find the Spanish forum with the group buy that went bad and the pics of broken frames.
> 
> Why would you trust someone who knowingly makes a counterfeit frame to have any scruples about quality????


You did read the ENTIRE Spanish thread right?
I tried (difficult via Google translate) and it seemed to me that yes there was dramas in the beginning but that it got sorted out.
In fact I believe there was a 2nd group buy after.
The rest of what you typed seems like a whole heap of stuff you made up on the spot and you have no more proof that what you have said is true as anyone else has that these are "OEM".

Great story though.


----------



## skygodmatt

On a positive note: 

I thought I'd let you know that the Alpha Q seatpost ( 190g ) and Kcnc collar (13g) really look great on these.
The post is the same as a Colnago. It's micro-adjustable and strong. Paid $70 Ebay. 
Then I tuned it with titanium bolts...( 176g )

As a matter of fact I bought about $60 worth of titanium bolts and saved 60g over the steel ones that come with the groups. They are all M5 and M6 bolts from 10mm to 30mm...put a M6 x30 ALuminum bolt on the steerer tube expander....$1 per gram is pretty cheap weight savings. 
Check out racebolts.com Shipping was fast.


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## DiegoMontoya

As far as I'm concerned, if it's ok for Pinarello to put "Made in Italy" on their frames, it's ok for someone to put Pinarello on a fake frame.


----------



## independentmind

You guys are giving me a tooth ache.

For the record, I own a Chinese TT frame, and also a Cannondale CAAD9 made in the USA. Polar opposites in manufacturing source, techniques and finish. I love them both, but the CAAD just a little more  

If you actually think these are Pinarellos then you're out of your damn mind. I don't see any issue with buying these frames at all, but I do take issue with putting the Pina brand name on there, there's a million reasons for this that have already been discussed (especially the ass busting work the founders of the company put in to establish the Pina brand name.)

Please don't trick yourself into thinking that you're buying a real Pina frame from the same factory and mold, it's just not the case. What you're getting is a no name frame, hopefully of good quality at a killer cost. 

Concerning quality: It's in the eye of the beholder, I'm extremely happy with my TT frame and quite frankly I haven't found anything to gripe about concerning it. But the finishing touches I would get with a high end bike just aren't there. And I suspect this is certainly the case with the Pina look alikes on this thread.

What some of you are suggesting is that the quality rivals that of the name brands or is the same frame, sorry folks, I don't think so. I have been lucky enough to have tested Cervelo P3's, their P4 and have been lucky enough to have tested a Pinarello (didn't like the ride, but the paint and attention to detail were incredible.) I can attest that the "finishing" touches and the "clean" product of the high end market just doesn't exist on these frames. The faster you realize this, the better off you'll be and the less likelihood of buyers remorse later on. I must say though, the rear brake on the P4 is a disaster to maintain and route, but moving on.

Do enjoy your no name frame, I've seen some VERY VERY nice builds on this thread, hopefully you'll enjoy your frame as much as I am enjoying mine, but please don't trick yourself into thinking these are real Pinarello frames. ****, I could put a cat's costume on my Rottweiler, that wont make him a cat.

I'm done with this now


----------



## mrbubbles

Some guy from the Spanish forums built this one.


----------



## vladvm

independentmind said:


> have been lucky enough to have tested a Pinarello (didn't like the ride,


Are you sure it was not made it china?


----------



## selfhealer

I'm a complete noob when it comes to bike building, but want to learn so I can build my own bike. I'd like to get 50cm FM027 from dengfu which seems to be my size comparing it to my old bike.

What bits can I get for the bike from Dengfu? It'll be a complete new bike so I'll be sourcing new everything.

I can't see much talk about groupsets etc, will I need to purchase them from somewhere like Wiggle?


----------



## mrwirey

*Back on topic: Ignore function is an option.*



Coolhand said:


> Don't want to see someone's posts- just use the Ignore user feature- click on the user name \and go from there (loolk ofoor theChite).


Coolhand,
Thank you very much for the much needed tip on how to get to the ignore function. I was searching for a way to reduce the off-topic chatter on this thread and since I can't vote individuals off the island due to freedom of speech; I can at least vote them off my peronal island. Now if everyone would refuse to quote those off-topic conversations in their responses I could get back to enjoying this thread, which for me was/is about assisting people who have questions with regard to negotiating the purchase of, or building of a Chinese carbon framed bicycle.
Very respectfully,


----------



## DiegoMontoya

Anybody have the link to the spanish site where people have built these bikes? That last one mr. bubbles posted looks pretty damn awesome.


----------



## stefano bobby

sorry double post


----------



## stefano bobby

To get back to the original topic, I was thinking of getting this frame:

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Full-Carbon...80611771439?pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item4155c3d42f

I looked through the threads concerning these frames for almost an hour, and there is so much information that I could not figure out what model this is. I was wondering if any of you have had experience with this frame, and know anything about the seller. Also, it says on the ad that it is a 1 1/2 inch headset, I assume that is for the lower bearing, so it is tapered, right? Do these sellers often include headsets with their frames, or is it necessary to buy one as well? I kind of want to get a headset shipped that is already installed, because installing headsets and fork bearing races on carbon forks is scary. I have only ever installed 1 inch headsets, are integrated headsets like the ones on these frames harder/ easier? thank you for your time.


----------



## stevesbike

Pinarello has a warning on their website about the counterfeit frames - which vendors are trying to pass off as real ones. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_atrK-jBKJKY/TT76tmdsz2I/AAAAAAAAOsk/b0l686aGenE/s1600/pinarello+fake+2.jpg

Pics of counterfeit frame failures - also read the first buy Spanish forum for pics of failures - it's obvious from them that the frames are made substandardly: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=61681 

Specialized's warning about counterfeit Tarmacs: http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCWhatsNewDetail.jsp?article=6353 

Ritchey's warning about fake bars (they are substandard, not reinforced and many reports of failures with them) http://www.ritcheylogic.com/news_article.php?id=494

Zipp's warning about counterfeit Zipp bars - again made with no regard for consumer safety http://www.zipp.com/support/warranty/counterfeit.php 

Go ahead and buy whatever you want, but don't think that just because it superficially resembles the real thing that it is made with any regard for safety...


----------



## mrwirey

stefano bobby said:


> To get back to the original topic, I was thinking of getting this frame:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Full-Carbon...80611771439?pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item4155c3d42f
> 
> I looked through the threads concerning these frames for almost an hour, and there is so much information that I could not figure out what model this is. I was wondering if any of you have had experience with this frame, and know anything about the seller. Also, it says on the ad that it is a 1 1/2 inch headset, I assume that is for the lower bearing, so it is tapered, right? Do these sellers often include headsets with their frames, or is it necessary to buy one as well? I kind of want to get a headset shipped that is already installed, because installing headsets and fork bearing races on carbon forks is scary. I have only ever installed 1 inch headsets, are integrated headsets like the ones on these frames harder/ easier? thank you for your time.


Stefano,
I don’t have any personal knowledge of that frame, but I can picture it in my mind’s eye and it would make an excellent build. 
With regard to the headset. Purchase the headset with the frame if you can as it should only be about $15 and the quality is good enough. The Chinese frames typically have a 1-1/8” top and 1-1/2” bottom bearing as you surmised. Although I don't have pictures of the headset; I can probably walk you through how to install it. 
Lower or bottom bearing. The lower of bottom bearing is comprised of two components. The first is the bearing race that must be pressed onto the fork. The second and only other component is the bearing itself. The upper part of the bearing race is actually part of the frame. The bearing just rests/seats into this fork race once you have installed it. So to be clear: Fork race is placed over the steerer tube with the tapered end facing up. The bearing is placed over the steerer tube and rests on the bottom race you’ve installed with the external tapered end of the bearing facing up so that it will match the taper on the inside of the bearing race that is inside the lower head tube (integral to the frame). 
Installation tip: You will need to purchase an approximately 3ft length of PVC pipe with a 1-1/2” internal diameter to ‘seat’ the bottom race. Place the bottom race onto the fork. Put the PVC pipe over the steerer tube and against the race. Hold the PVC pipe in one hand and a fork tine/leg in the other. Strike the PVC pipe against the ground to drive the bottom bearing race onto the fork. You may have to repeat this process several times to properly seat the bearing race. I have done so in as little as three strikes; however, the majority of the time it has taken as many as ten. Several people have commented they have lightly sanded the steerer tube down by the fork crown to make this process easier. I have not. Additionally, it may be necessary to clean excess resin out of the lower fork race, which is integral to the headtube. I have used steel wheel and light sanding to remove this excess. 
Upper or top bearing. The upper or top bearing is comprised of five components as I recall. The first is the bearing itself. The second is the compression ring (this looks like a circular piece of aluminum with a slit in it and a taper on one side). The 3rd and 4th components should be two very thin washers and the 5th component should be a black top or dust cap. The bearing goes over the installed steerer tube with the bearing’s external taper facing downward so it will seat into the upper bearing race, which is integral to the head tube. The next component you install is the compression ring that serves the same function as the bottom race you installed earlier, but for the top bearing. The tapered end of the compression ring should face downward into the bearing. Next install components three and four (the two thin washers) on top of the compression ring. These washer are optional meaning that you may or may not need them. They serve as spacers to ensure that the final component, the dust or top cap, does not rub against the head tube. I would suggest putting both of them on as you can remove one or both of them later if you determine that they are not needed. The final component to install is the top or dust cap. I hope this helps. Feel free to contact me again if you need further assistance.
Very Respectfully, Tim
P.S. This website may prove useful to you during your build http://www.parktool.com/repair/bikemap.asp
P.S.S. Don't forget to involve your Local Bike Shop if you are unsure about any portion of your bike build e.g., if you are not comfortable with seating the bottom bearing race. Remember your LBS has many expensive and specialized tools, which would be impractical for you to purchase for one time use, e.g., the tool for chasing bottom bracket threads, which I recommend by the way. One final word is to purchase a torque wrench as overtightening anything associated with carbon (seat post clamp, stem, front dereilleur hanger, etc.) can cause irreparable damage. Viel spass!


----------



## vladvm

mrwirey said:


> Stefano,
> I don’t have any personal knowledge of that frame, but I can picture it in my mind’s eye and it would make an excellent build.
> With regard to the headset. Purchase the headset with the frame if you can as it should only be about $15 and the quality is good enough. The Chinese frames typically have a 1-1/8” top and 1-1/2” bottom bearing as you surmised. Although I don't have pictures of the headset; I can probably walk you through how to install it.
> Lower or bottom bearing. The lower of bottom bearing is comprised of two components. The first is the bearing race that must be pressed onto the fork. The second and only other component is the bearing itself. The upper part of the bearing race is actually part of the frame. The bearing just rests/seats into this fork race once you have installed it. So to be clear: Fork race is placed over the steerer tube with the tapered end facing up. The bearing is placed over the steerer tube and rests on the bottom race you’ve installed with the external tapered end of the bearing facing up so that it will match the taper on the inside of the bearing race that is inside the lower head tube (integral to the frame).
> Installation tip: You will need to purchase an approximately 3ft length of PVC pipe with a 1-1/2” internal diameter to ‘seat’ the bottom race. Place the bottom race onto the fork. Put the PVC pipe over the steerer tube and against the race. Hold the PVC pipe in one hand and a fork tine/leg in the other. Strike the PVC pipe against the ground to drive the bottom bearing race onto the fork. You may have to repeat this process several times to properly seat the bearing race. I have done so in as little as three strikes; however, the majority of the time it has taken as many as ten. Several people have commented they have lightly sanded the steerer tube down by the fork crown to make this process easier. I have not. Additionally, it may be necessary to clean excess resin out of the lower fork race, which is integral to the headtube. I have used steel wheel and light sanding to remove this excess.
> Upper or top bearing. The upper or top bearing is comprised of five components as I recall. The first is the bearing itself. The second is the compression ring (this looks like a circular piece of aluminum with a slit in it and a taper on one side). The 3rd and 4th components should be two very thin washers and the 5th component should be a black top or dust cap. The bearing goes over the installed steerer tube with the bearing’s external taper facing downward so it will seat into the upper bearing race, which is integral to the head tube. The next component you install is the compression ring that serves the same function as the bottom race you installed earlier, but for the top bearing. The tapered end of the compression ring should face downward into the bearing. Next install components three and four (the two thin washers) on top of the compression ring. These washer are optional meaning that you may or may not need them. They serve as spacers to ensure that the final component, the dust or top cap, does not rub against the head tube. I would suggest putting both of them on as you can remove one or both of them later if you determine that they are not needed. The final component to install is the top or dust cap. I hope this helps. Feel free to contact me again if you need further assistance.
> Very Respectfully, Tim
> P.S. This website may prove useful to you during your build http://www.parktool.com/repair/bikemap.asp



I agree with the following steps. Also integrated headsets need to be compressed more than conventional headset to remove the play. Once you put everything together, you can check for play by engaging the front brake and rocking the bike. If you see some play by the headtube/fork it means the headset still needs to be tightened. So just loosen the stem bolts and tighten the compression bolt and re-check for play. Don't worry if there is some little drag on steering, this will eventually smoothen out as you use the bike. The key is to remove any play between the headset and fork because this will get worse as you use the bike and hasten wear on your headtube.

One tip on those 2 thin washers - if you require additional thicker spacing, you can use thin headset spacers (1mm) as substitute.


----------



## Muztard

Anyone here bought a Chinese carbon frame as their winter bike?


----------



## DiegoMontoya

Muztard said:


> Anyone here bought a Chinese carbon frame as their winter bike?


Pretty much everybody, since most frames are made there anyway. Some people just feel better about their purchase if it cost over $3k and came with fancy stickers and it says "Made in Italy." But it's still a Chinese frame. And yeah, I own a real Pinarello Prince, bought on closeout. BFD. I know the Made in Italy sticker is a lie, so I took it off. I bought it because I like the frame design. If I bought another one, well, I'd get the Chinarello.


----------



## mrbubbles

DiegoMontoya said:


> Anybody have the link to the spanish site where people have built these bikes? That last one mr. bubbles posted looks pretty damn awesome.


https://www.foromtb.com/showthread.php?632629-1er-Pdo.-Pinarello.-GreatKeenBike-por-500usd

From a Dutch forum. 

https://forum.fiets.nl/topic.asp?TID=47480


----------



## mrbubbles

Personally though, this is a kick ass paint scheme (not on Pinarello's catalogue). You can obviously tell it isn't genuine by looking at the rear brake cable routing, it isn't internal.


----------



## Tubby1536

I have been doing some research on FSA headsets and have found the following for evryone looking to buy one instea of use the Chinese one.

FSA has four C-40 headsets they are also sometimes called no.42 (there are also 2 cycle-cross headsets but I left them out for simplicity). Essentially the difference is the bottom bearings and top cap. 2 have an industrial 1 1/2 45/36 bottom bearing and 2 with an ACB 1 1/2 45/36bottom bearing. Each with an option of alloy or carbon top cap. The Carbon one more commonly seen as CF-40. I also believe you can get any of these with either a 10mm or 15mm top cap but I don't think that changes the product number, you need to ask what the vendor has.

FSA part number 121-0460 Aluminum top cap ACB bottom bearing.
FSA part number 121-0461 Aluminum Top cap, Industrial bearing
FSA part number 121-0465 Carbon cap, Industrial bottom bearing
FSA part number 121-0466 Carbon Cap, ACB bottom bearing

Technical details can be found in this document. The tricky part is though the doc does not refer to the FSA product numbers above. See pages 127, 131 and 132 for the no.42 bearing specs.
http://www.fullspeedahead.com/downloadfly.aspx?download=downloads/2010+Headsets+Catalogue.pdf


Now of course the question is which one fits? My guess is the standard ACB model but cannot confirm. Also I have not found any mention anywhere of a 45/45 bottom bearing that some have recommended. If anyone knows that model number we can add it to this list.

The other thing that is weird is that I have seen pictures of bottom bearings that look like they have no angle on them. I think sellers are just using a wrong picture as the description always states 45/36 bottom bearing. I have not been able to identify the non-angled bearing in the FSA catalogue to confirm. If anyone knows what this one is let me know as well.


----------



## skygodmatt

I am so sorry you got scammed. 

Anything from Indonesia is always a scam.
Did you pay with paypal or wire transfer?
How much did they take you for?


----------



## phoeve

*FM028 arrives in less than 2 weeks !!*

It's here !!! And on first inspection it exhibits none of the mentioned issues. Fork crown is clean, ft dr cable hole is in line with the guide, dropouts look aligned.

I need to order another few parts and I'll be submitting a ride report !!

Peter




phoeve said:


> This build is for my wife. I'm too tall to fit on any of these frames
> 
> I purchased it from Mina at Deng-Fu. I initially emailed them and they sent me all their contact info. The rest of the communications were over Skype chat, which is text. She can also send files to you via Skype file transfer - like build sheets etc. Mina is a delight to interact with. She answered all my many questions over several weeks. After I was done deciding, she emailed me an invoice and I paid via PayPal. From my experience, Mina is usually available from 9pm to 7am EST to chat
> 
> I'll post an update when it arrives !
> 
> Her Skype ID is dengfubike.
> Her email address is [email protected]
> 
> Description
> Fm028 non isp 54cm 3k frameset(include frame,fork )with clear coating	1	360	360
> seatpost SP003 with clear coating 1	30	30
> headset for the Fm028 1	14	14
> bottlecage FD007 4	9	36
> rear hanger 1	2	2
> seatpost clamp 1	0	0
> shipping cost 1	80	80
> excess fee for the paypal 3.7% 19
> total $541.0


----------



## phoeve

On the FM028/fork is there supposed to be a bearing race below the lower cartridge bearing in the headset? If there is, it didn't come with my headset. Would a King race work? I guess it depends on the measurements of the cartridge bearing. Any advice is appreciated.

This build is gonna be fun !!!!

Thanks,
Peter



phoeve said:


> It's here !!! And on first inspection it exhibits none of the mentioned issues. Fork crown is clean, ft dr cable hole is in line with the guide, dropouts look aligned.
> 
> I need to order another few parts and I'll be submitting a ride report !!
> 
> Peter


----------



## Cinelli 82220

*Pinarello maker*

There were pictures of a factory tour in Taiwan showing finished Pinarello frames in an Australian bike mag a year or two ago. I think it was Bicycling Australia but cannot remember for sure. 
I am looking for their website to try and find the article or order a back copy..


----------



## skygodmatt

phoeve said:


> On the FM028/fork is there supposed to be a bearing race below the lower cartridge bearing in the headset? If there is, it didn't come with my headset. Would a King race work? I guess it depends on the measurements of the cartridge bearing. Any advice is appreciated.
> 
> This build is gonna be fun !!!!
> 
> Thanks,
> Peter


I have a FM-028. Don't sweat it. There are a few choices:

1) Get the Cane Creek lower bearing assembly in a IS 1.5" acb 36/45. Sold at pricepoint or universal cycles for $30. Includes lower bearing and crown race for your fork. 

2) Get the FSA CF-40 entire headset for about $53 at Universal cycles. It has everything including a carbon top cap. 

3) Go by a bike shop or shop for a lower crown race for a 1.5" 36/45 bearing.

I went with option #2 and did not buy the Chinese headset with my order for these reasons. 
Have fun.

*Edit: * Here you go. $10 solves the problem. Many links to that 1.5" race you need: 
http://www.google.com/products/cata...og_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCMQ8wIwAw#


----------



## DiegoMontoya

robdamanii said:


> I don't really need to hear anything. I'm simply correcting the notion that buying a sub $1000 frame from china is the same as buying a $5000 Pinarello Prince. To claim anything otherwise is just...I can't even explain it.


Please try. I'd love to hear it. Because, you see, I own a Prince AND a Chinese carbon frame. So, please try really really hard to explain to me the difference.


----------



## DiegoMontoya

mrbubbles said:


> https://www.foromtb.com/showthread.php?632629-1er-Pdo.-Pinarello.-GreatKeenBike-por-500usd
> 
> From a Dutch forum.
> 
> https://forum.fiets.nl/topic.asp?TID=47480


Gracias, bubbles.


----------



## PlatyPius

DiegoMontoya said:


> Please try. I'd love to hear it. Because, you see, I own a Prince AND a Chinese carbon frame. So, please try really really hard to explain to me the difference.


Easy.

The Pinarello was made in Taiwan. The Chinese frame was made in.....China.


----------



## DiegoMontoya

mrbubbles said:


> Personally though, this is a kick ass paint scheme (not on Pinarello's catalogue). You can obviously tell it isn't genuine by looking at the rear brake cable routing, it isn't internal.


Exactly the paint scheme I want. Where did you find this?!?


----------



## DiegoMontoya

PlatyPius said:


> Easy.
> 
> The Pinarello was made in Taiwan. The Chinese frame was made in.....China.


You slick bastard. I've been foiled again! 

Actually, mine was made by Trigon. I think the address was in Taiwan.


----------



## mrbubbles

DiegoMontoya said:


> Exactly the paint scheme I want. Where did you find this?!?


One of the guy in the Spanish forum painted it himself, or got somebody to painted it for him, iirc, my Spanish is not so great, but you can find the details in that Spanish forum.


----------



## DiegoMontoya

mrbubbles said:


> One of the guy in the Spanish forum painted it himself, or got somebody to painted it for him, iirc, my Spanish is not so great, but you can find the details in that Spanish forum.


Crap. No way am I coordinated enough to paint that.


----------



## boleiro

interesting read for this threads new topic...

http://allanti.com/articles/where-was-my-bike-made-pg328.htm


----------



## scirocco

Does anyone know if carbonzone sells his RB003 frame with non-integrated seatpost? I understand that this is the same frame as the FM015 which is available in ISP and non-ISP versions, so I can't see why he couldn't sell one.

I've sent him a direct question on ebay, but it's their holiday season and I may not get an answer soon....


----------



## doggatas

i can tell u now the FSA cf 40 lower bearing doesn't fit on the fm015. the upper parts worked fine.

i am ordering two spare headsets from hong fu unless someone can tell me of a cane creek or fsa or more readily available headset that will work on the fm015


----------



## doggatas

i can tell u now the FSA cf 40 lower bearing doesn't fit on the fm015. the upper parts worked fine.

i am ordering two spare headsets from hong fu unless someone can tell me of a cane creek or fsa or more readily available headset that will work on the fm015


----------



## doggatas

Tubby1536 said:


> I have been doing some research on FSA headsets and have found the following for evryone looking to buy one instea of use the Chinese one.
> 
> FSA has four C-40 headsets they are also sometimes called no.42 (there are also 2 cycle-cross headsets but I left them out for simplicity). Essentially the difference is the bottom bearings and top cap. 2 have an industrial 1 1/2 45/36 bottom bearing and 2 with an ACB 1 1/2 45/36bottom bearing. Each with an option of alloy or carbon top cap. The Carbon one more commonly seen as CF-40. I also believe you can get any of these with either a 10mm or 15mm top cap but I don't think that changes the product number, you need to ask what the vendor has.
> 
> FSA part number 121-0460 Aluminum top cap ACB bottom bearing.
> FSA part number 121-0461 Aluminum Top cap, Industrial bearing
> FSA part number 121-0465 Carbon cap, Industrial bottom bearing
> FSA part number 121-0466 Carbon Cap, ACB bottom bearing
> 
> Technical details can be found in this document. The tricky part is though the doc does not refer to the FSA product numbers above. See pages 127, 131 and 132 for the no.42 bearing specs.
> http://www.fullspeedahead.com/downloadfly.aspx?download=downloads/2010+Headsets+Catalogue.pdf
> 
> 
> Now of course the question is which one fits? My guess is the standard ACB model but cannot confirm. Also I have not found any mention anywhere of a 45/45 bottom bearing that some have recommended. If anyone knows that model number we can add it to this list.
> 
> The other thing that is weird is that I have seen pictures of bottom bearings that look like they have no angle on them. I think sellers are just using a wrong picture as the description always states 45/36 bottom bearing. I have not been able to identify the non-angled bearing in the FSA catalogue to confirm. If anyone knows what this one is let me know as well.


i can see where i went wrong with the fsa headset thanks to ur post, i ordered the 121-0465 where i should have ordered the 121-0466 that comes with the acb bearing instead of the industrial.

oh well ill know for next time. still id like someone to confirm.


----------



## mafffoster

*RB002 isp from Carbonzone or FM028*

bought this from echo @ carbonzone on ebay 1000 miles ago. check http://velospace.org/node/32583 or feel free to comment or ask questions


----------



## phoeve

Thanks man ! I'm ordering the complete headset!

Peter



skygodmatt said:


> I have a FM-028. Don't sweat it. There are a few choices:
> 
> 1) Get the Cane Creek lower bearing assembly in a IS 1.5" acb 36/45. Sold at pricepoint or universal cycles for $30. Includes lower bearing and crown race for your fork.
> 
> 2) Get the FSA CF-40 entire headset for about $53 at Universal cycles. It has everything including a carbon top cap.
> 
> 3) Go by a bike shop or shop for a lower crown race for a 1.5" 36/45 bearing.
> 
> I went with option #2 and did not buy the Chinese headset with my order for these reasons.
> Have fun.
> 
> *Edit: * Here you go. $10 solves the problem. Many links to that 1.5" race you need:
> http://www.google.com/products/cata...og_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCMQ8wIwAw#


----------



## PBrooks

Nice weight!!! with those bars, one question. What did you use as a spacer for the Cappy? I came back from town and all they told me was "magic". Still plenty of places to loose weight if you were inclined to as I'm sure you know. Like it alot!! Will post mine when my new stem comes in.


----------



## cdalemike

+1 on not clamping the carbon (or aluminum) frame. About the only frame material I would feel comfy clamping is steel.


----------



## PBrooks

cdalemike said:


> +1 on not clamping the carbon (or aluminum) frame. About the only frame material I would feel comfy clamping is steel.


What is this referring to?


----------



## independentmind

PBrooks said:


> What is this referring to?


Someone had their carbon frame up on a work stand, it was clamped at the top tube (a no no)


----------



## Guymk

I clamp my bike on the seat tube with just enough pressure that it stays. I would be very surprised if anything happened.


----------



## independentmind

Guymk said:


> I clamp my bike on the seat tube with just enough pressure that it stays. I would be very surprised if anything happened.



Someone careless enough could probably crush it, but who knows. I use a wall hanger that suspends my bikes horizontally when I need to do work. I don't even own a bike stand, although with 4 bikes between me and the missus, sometimes I wish I had one.


----------



## DiegoMontoya

Wow. That is sweet. You're about to drop under 14 lbs, which would really put you into weight weenie territory. You have chosen....wisely. Chapeau. 



mafffoster said:


> bought this from echo @ carbonzone on ebay 1000 miles ago. check http://velospace.org/node/32583 or feel free to comment or ask questions


----------



## fab4

*GreatKeen Bike?*

Does anybody know what happened to GreatKeen bikes? Their website is no longer available (www.greatkeenbike.com). I don't know if it's temporarily down but I'm worried because I ordered 2 carbon frames from them last Jan 10, 2011 and they haven't responded to any of my emails the past week regarding the status of my frames.


----------



## beston

Guymk said:


> I clamp my bike on the seat tube with just enough pressure that it stays. I would be very surprised if anything happened.


While it's better to apply less clamping force than more, a seat post is meant to handle about 5n•m of clamping torque. I don't hesitate hang my bikes from the seat post.


----------



## PlatyPius

fab4 said:


> Does anybody know what happened to GreatKeen bikes? Their website is no longer available (www.greatkeenbike.com). I don't know if it's temporarily down but I'm worried because I ordered 2 carbon frames from them last Jan 10, 2011 and they haven't responded to any of my emails the past week regarding the status of my frames.


 I wish I could say that all of my reports of that site to the various authorities had finally done some good. However, it seems that there's a script error on their page that's frying the site. I'll keep reporting them to the various federal agencies though for selling counterfeits.


----------



## mrbubbles

PlatyPius said:


> I wish I could say that all of my reports of that site to the various authorities had finally done some good. However, it seems that there's a script error on their page that's frying the site. I'll keep reporting them to the various federal agencies though for selling counterfeits.


Mr. Buzzkill. I'm sure it's just a temporary glitch. Here's to hoping it will come online soon (this happened before, so I don't think it's a big deal). :biggrin5:


----------



## fab4

mrbubbles said:


> Mr. Buzzkill. I'm sure it's just a temporary glitch. Here's to hoping it will come online soon (this happened before, so I don't think it's a big deal). :biggrin5:



I sure hope so that's it's only a temp glitch. It's also Chinese New Year maybe that's why they are not responding.


----------



## aikendrum

mafffoster said:


> bought this from echo @ carbonzone on ebay 1000 miles ago. check http://velospace.org/node/32583 or feel free to comment or ask questions


Nice work mafffoster! - Tell us more about the oversized rear pulleys, where you sourced them, cost and overall performance difference - other than looking awesome! Did you fit them yourself?


----------



## dono007

fab4: Don't worry. I was just liked you. I ordered Chinarello with Dogma decal on early December, and they just shipped out on Jan. 24. The frame is on its way to my door. I will receive this frame on Monday or Tuesday coming week. I think they will take longer to ship your frame out due to Chinese New Year. Also, they send the package out by HongKong postal not by ESM liked they were used to.


----------



## fab4

dono007 said:


> fab4: Don't worry. I was just liked you. I ordered Chinarello with Dogma decal on early December, and they just shipped out on Jan. 24. The frame is on its way to my door. I will receive this frame on Monday or Tuesday coming week. I think they will take longer to ship your frame out due to Chinese New Year. Also, they send the package out by HongKong postal not by ESM liked they were used to.


Post some pics of your "Chinarello" when it arrives. I also ordered an RFM101 frame and a 29er mtb frame. I think Hongkong post takes longer compared to EMS.


----------



## swaz

robdamanii said:


> Then why not go whole hog and use EXACTLY the same specs, such as BB threading? Why? Because it is NOT the same production as a Pinarello, that's why.
> 
> As for the iPhone issue, yes, I corrected this to read "counterfeits" instead of "knockoffs."


----------



## mafffoster

Thanks..I got lucky on ebay last year - less than $100 for the rear mech so basically built the bike up to put it to good use! It shifts nicely but slips a little in the middle of the cassette when I really put the pressure on which is unfortunate. There seems to be a few companies who tune components but they seem a bit pricey eg. http://83.169.41.216/drupalprod/catalog/10 or http://fairwheelbikes.com/kaiser-bolt-tuning-kit-for-sram-rear-derailleurs-p-1286.html and http://www.fibre-lyte.co.uk/index.html


----------



## vladvm

i'm going out to give the chinarello a good test ride

Edit: just finished the ride. Best $400 spent. This frame does not disappoint! Now more riding less posting! To those still debating in their heads whether to purchase the chinarello, you owe it to yourself... It's something you have to experience, I'm sure fellow chinarellos and real Pinarello owners would know what I'm talking about.


----------



## DiegoMontoya

Wait, did someone say they're going to contact American authorities to report Chinese companies for selling counterfeits?

LOL.


----------



## ColoRoadie

DiegoMontoya said:


> Wait, did someone say they're going to contact American authorities to report Chinese companies for selling counterfeits?
> 
> LOL.



Everyone needs a hobby of some sort....


----------



## PlatyPius

DiegoMontoya said:


> Wait, did someone say they're going to contact American authorities to report Chinese companies for selling counterfeits?
> 
> LOL.


LOL.

No, no one ever mentioned American authorities.

LOL.


----------



## mrbubbles

PlatyPius said:


> LOL.
> 
> No, no one ever mentioned American authorities.
> 
> LOL.


Doesn't "Federal" mean American? Unless somehow you were reporting them to Chinese Federal agencies, but I highly doubt that. 



PlatyPius said:


> I'll keep reporting them to the* various federal agencies* though for selling counterfeits.


----------



## PlatyPius

mrbubbles said:


> Doesn't "Federal" mean American? Unless somehow you were reporting them to Chinese Federal agencies, but I highly doubt that.
> 
> ​


Yeah, the last thing the Chinese authorities care about is counterfeiting. The government probably encourages it.

Every time someone posts something showing a counterfeit bike, I report the company of origin to the U.S. Customs and Border Protection Agency (http://www.cbp.gov/). They can't stop the production, but they can stop the crap from coming into the U.S.

I also report it to the IACC. http://www.iacc.org/

Unfortunately, since Pinarello is an Italian company, the U.S. likely has little initiative to stop the counterfeiters.

Ergo, I also report it to INDICAM: http://www.indicam.it/

If nothing else, maybe customs will tie up packages from Greatkeenbike and similar companies for so long that the unscrupulous people who buy this crap will just give up buying it.


----------



## fab4

mrbubbles said:


> Doesn't "Federal" mean American? Unless somehow you were reporting them to Chinese Federal agencies, but I highly doubt that.
> 
> ​


I think the "Feds" have more things in their plate to worry about. I can see the frustration on Pinarello owners paying a lot of $$$$ for their frames/bikes while you can buy a knock off "Pinarello" for a lot less money from the Far East or even ebay at the buyers own risk. Pinarello should really need to start thinking about redesigning their bike design. The uniqueness of the design has somewhat diminished with Chinese factories copying them. That's what happen when you outsource production. You can't really control what foreign factories can and will do with your design.


----------



## mrbubbles

PlatyPius said:


> 1. Yeah, the last thing the Chinese authorities care about is counterfeiting. The government probably encourages it.
> 
> 2. Every time someone posts something showing a counterfeit bike, I report the company of origin to the U.S. Customs and Border Protection Agency (http://www.cbp.gov/). They can't stop the production, but they can stop the crap from coming into the U.S.
> 
> I also report it to the IACC. http://www.iacc.org/
> 
> Unfortunately, since Pinarello is an Italian company, the U.S. likely has little initiative to stop the counterfeiters.
> 
> Ergo, I also report it to INDICAM: http://www.indicam.it/
> 
> If nothing else, maybe customs will tie up packages from Greatkeenbike and similar companies for so long that the unscrupulous people who buy this crap will just give up buying it.


1. Well yeah, why would the Chinese authority care? Their economy is doing great. I highly doubt people pocketing the extra cash that's not going to Pinarello care either. 

2. So you did report to _American_ federal agencies, yes? Cool. It seems you got a MAJOR bone to pick, but seeing that you're a shop owner, that's expected.


----------



## mrbubbles

fab4 said:


> That's what happen when you outsource production. You can't really control what foreign factories can and will do with your design.


I'm guessing the same factories uses the same moulds and make extra productions? Yeah, not much Pinarello can do about that other than take business to another factory in the same regions (Cervelo had done that after one of the factory's QC led to repeated broken bikes), the cost of doing business I suppose, given how much Pinarello made, that cost is written off as expense.

Consumer to direct business dealings aren't the norm, but it's a welcoming change for savvy buyers to bypass the middlemen of the industry (company, distributor, retailer).


----------



## PlatyPius

mrbubbles said:


> *I'm guessing the same factories uses the same moulds and make extra productions?* Yeah, not much Pinarello can do about that other than take business to another factory in the same regions (Cervelo had done that after one of the factory's QC led to repeated broken bikes), the cost of doing business I suppose, given how much Pinarello made, that cost is written off as expense.
> 
> Consumer to direct business dealings aren't the norm, but it's a welcoming change for savvy buyers to bypass the middlemen of the industry (company, distributor, retailer).


GAH!!!

No, no, no. They are not using Pinarello moulds. They are copies. Forgeries. Pinarello frames are made in Taiwan. The forgeries are made in China.



mrbubbles said:


> It seems you got a MAJOR bone to pick, but seeing that you're a shop owner, that's expected.


Actually, it isn't expected. I do not sell Pinarello. I do not own a Pinarello. Pinarello is a competing brand to the brands I sell. What I *do* have a bone to pick about is theft, forgery, unscrupulous behaviour, and general douchebaggery. The people making these frames offend me, and the people who buy them offend me. No matter what the crime is, it's always the same rationalisations.


----------



## bevo21

In my opinion this thread should show more pictures and experiences with the Chinese bikes. Copy Pinarello's aren't my choice, but may be some people like them, because the are affordable. There are beauties, home designed and home build, and I like to read how all these people made there choice, waited for there buy to arrive, and build it in theway the liked. Instead of this most items are about merchandise; shop owners who are afraid they are going to loose a part of there business. And crying that poor Mr. Pinarello can's afford his Ferrari any more. Please stop with that kind of messages, and let's talk about bikes. I posted my new roadbike before, a year ago a bought a cheap carbon MTB. I rode about 2000 km, and it is not broken, even though it has no suspension.








By vlugtrug at 2010-02-07


----------



## stevesbike

PlatyPius said:


> GAH!!!
> 
> No, no, no. They are not using Pinarello moulds. They are copies. Forgeries. Pinarello frames are made in Taiwan. The forgeries are made in China.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it isn't expected. I do not sell Pinarello. I do not own a Pinarello. Pinarello is a competing brand to the brands I sell. What I *do* have a bone to pick about is theft, forgery, unscrupulous behaviour, and general douchebaggery. The people making these frames offend me, and the people who buy them offend me. No matter what the crime is, it's always the same rationalisations.


+1 and the buyers are under the delusion that a counterfeiter magically makes a decent product - I posted above some manufacturer warnings about other counterfeit bike components - all made substandardly and leading to lots of failures (especially fake Ritchey bars that used less material to match weight - yikes)....


----------



## mrbubbles

PlatyPius said:


> GAH!!!
> 
> No, no, no. They are not using Pinarello moulds. They are copies. Forgeries. Pinarello frames are made in Taiwan. The forgeries are made in China.


Are you a 100% certain? Given the interconnectedness of Chinese and Taiwanese businesses, it is very possible that the factories and production were moved to China. The geometry of these bikes are identical to the T. You know what? I'm going to buy one of these for the heck of it when Chinese New Year ends, and I'll show them to my local Pinarello dealer. 



PlatyPius said:


> Actually, it isn't expected. I do not sell Pinarello. I do not own a Pinarello. Pinarello is a competing brand to the brands I sell. What I *do* have a bone to pick about is theft, forgery, unscrupulous behaviour, and general douchebaggery. The people making these frames offend me, and the people who buy them offend me. No matter what the crime is, it's always the same rationalisations.


Simple put, you are offended, is that correct? Well, ok, that's just too bad. The world doesn't revolve around your feelings.


----------



## PlatyPius

mrbubbles said:


> Simple put, you are offended, is that correct? Well, ok, that's just too bad. The world doesn't revolve around your feelings.


No, but the world does/should revolve around laws and ethics. I know I'm stretching it on the ethics... no one seems to be ethical these days. Counterfeiting is illegal. Buying a known counterfeit product is illegal. It's unethical too, but that doesn't seem to be a concern as long as it's cheaper, right? Screw ethics. I got a bike I couldn't normally afford so that I can impress others. Yay me.

For the record, I don't have a problem (well, not much of one) with the bikes from Hong Fu and such that are their own designs. I'm not against Chinese frames. I'm against counterfeiting and such. Maybe there are some attorneys on the board who could contribute an opinion as to whether RBR could in any way be held accountable for providing pictures and links to/for counterfeit products? If so, I'm sure RBR wouldn't want them here either.

Perhaps there could be a "Chinese Carbon Frame" thread and a "Counterfeit Frame" thread. Group all of the weasels together in the counterfeit thread so we all can see who they are....


----------



## mrbubbles

Wow you are just butthurtin'. First you report to federal agencies and now you're getting the board to silence posts about these frames? lol 

The consensus doesn't support your opinion, several boards on the internet are discussing these frames and people are quite interested. Sorry.


----------



## doggatas

I just wanted to say I am so happy with my FM015 Dura Ace build, took the RED gear off it, sprayed it Matte black and installed 7900 DA. Wow Dura Ace is the gear... DA brakes are on the way. So are some black rims


----------



## ColoRoadie

Perhaps we could have a thread about carbon frames, without all the small time shop owners crying about how their margins are dwindling in this economy. Perhaps we could call it chinese carbon bike thread or something equally descriptive and create another called random useless complaining that a few in this thread could live in. Hey, I have an idea...put as much thought into making your company better as you do ranting about a half dozen frames in here....and maybe you will get somewhere in the world. 

Seriously, there have been what...6 pinarello copies posted in here, if that? And we are subjected to pages and pages of whining about them? Mods, seriously...put a stop to this. None of it is on topic. This isn't a political or legal webboard and products labelled made in Italy that are actually made in Taiwan and either copied or exported to china then sold in the USA are not a concern for our govt, let alone this part of cycerspace.


----------



## mrwirey

doggatas said:


> I just wanted to say I am so happy with my FM015 Dura Ace build, took the RED gear off it, sprayed it Matte black and installed 7900 DA. Wow Dura Ace is the gear... DA brakes are on the way. So are some black rims
> 
> 
> 
> Doggatas...nice build.
Click to expand...


----------



## doggatas

thanks mrwirey

I wasn't going to post it up but with all this chat about ethics and morals i thought bugger it this thread needs some new builds.

In saying that i put the red on my GIANT frame, after the chinese new year ill be ordering another FM015(non ISP) this time so i can have 2 awesome bikes with the same GEO, i will post that build as well.

Oh yeh, for the next build i want to use alligator i-link cables where can i get them from??


----------



## mrwirey

doggatas said:


> Oh yeh, for the next build i want to use alligator i-link cables where can i get them from??


You are welcome. I bought my alligator link cables off eBay...haven't installed mine yet. Looking forward to your next build. Take care, Tim


----------



## asianarnold1

*Merckx bikes = Taiwan*

"Made in Taiwan"
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/photos/pro-bike-tom-boonens-quick-step-eddy-merckx-emx-7/156128
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/photos/pro-bike-tom-boonens-quick-step-eddy-merckx-emx-7

if it's good enough for Tom, it's good enough for me. 
I'm definitely getting a Chinarello. My current carbon bike that i've had for 5yrs has the same front triangle as the F:14. And now it's time to move on. 

PlattyPius, you should really move on.


----------



## MarvinK

doggatas said:


>


I like that your tape 'Made the Leap' ... too bad the components didnt. :/


----------



## stevesbike

asianarnold1 said:


> "Made in Taiwan"
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/photos/pro-bike-tom-boonens-quick-step-eddy-merckx-emx-7/156128
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/photos/pro-bike-tom-boonens-quick-step-eddy-merckx-emx-7
> 
> if it's good enough for Tom, it's good enough for me.
> I'm definitely getting a Chinarello. My current carbon bike that i've had for 5yrs has the same front triangle as the F:14. And now it's time to move on.
> 
> PlattyPius, you should really move on.


really? You realize the Chinarello isn't even made in Taiwan? The anti-Chinarello comments aren't anti-Asian frames, or even no-name Chinese frames. Big difference between them and outright counterfeit goods. How about not filling the forum with posts about buying illegal goods - it's breaking the law to knowingly buy them.


----------



## MarvinK

It seems like if you can't post boobs in the Podium Girls area, you shouldn't be able to post outright counterfeit (and illegal) goods like the Chinarello here.


----------



## doggatas

MarvinK said:


> I like that your tape 'Made the Leap' ... too bad the components didnt. :/



Yep love that bar tape.

I still have the RED gear its on an older giant frame at the moment, will be migrating it to an FM015 non ISP once the Chinese new year festivities are over.


----------



## mrbubbles

stevesbike said:


> really? You realize the Chinarello isn't even made in Taiwan? The anti-Chinarello comments aren't anti-Asian frames, or even no-name Chinese frames. Big difference between them and outright counterfeit goods. How about not filling the forum with posts about buying illegal goods - it's breaking the law to knowingly buy them.


Yeah, uh, Pinarello man himself said that their frames are from China, I don't know why you keep repeating this Taiwan stuff.


----------



## vladvm

My chinarello survived the 83km/h decent, -14C, rough salted roads, crossing the rail, over couple of pot holes. Nary a creak. Exceeded and passed my QC!


----------



## weekendroadie

Was just on ebay and the new pinarello knock offs have the cable routing through the top
tube, were the older ones didn't and there 3k with frame/fork/headset for like $350us. 
Kinda wish I waited now. Cheers


----------



## vladvm

weekendroadie said:


> Was just on ebay and the new pinarello knock offs have the cable routing through the top
> tube, were the older ones didn't and there 3k with frame/fork/headset for like $350us.
> Kinda wish I waited now. Cheers


Yes the old ones were external, OEM's have internal cable routing.


----------



## flatlander_48

fab4 said:


> I sure hope so that's it's only a temp glitch. It's also *Chinese New Year* maybe that's why they are not responding.


Not quite. Wednesday 2/2 is New Year's Eve and Thursday is New Year's Day...


----------



## providince

PlatyPius said:


> A few of the De Rosa steeds are indeed crafted by Italian craftsmen as well. And yes, the other De Rosas and the Wiliers are made by Chinese or Taiwanese artisans, albeit artisans with little to no interest in the joy of cycling. For there, you see, is the difference. In the fair lands of Italy and France, cycling is a passion. It is art. It is LIFE. In the lands of China and the Orient, cycling has been, for the most part, about basic transportation. It is drudgery. It is pedestrian. There is no fire. No passion.
> 
> When a steed is designed by those who burn with passion for cycling, that passion is built into the very fibres making up the whole. When an engineer, with no passion for cycling, designs a bike, it is a mere appliance. A blender on wheels. And when a forger - a counterfeiter - copies a bike, it's soul is sucked out of it and a hollow shell, with stray bits of fibre and resin stuck in odd places, is all that's left.
> 
> Soulless bikes are ridden by soulless riders. It is a courtesy; nay, a responsibility to put these soulless riders out of their misery by exposing their shallow, hollow lives for what they are.
> 
> Thusly, Sir Robert and I - secure behind my powerful Shield of Trademark, have hastened to the offices of Pinarello to apprise them of this soulless beast we have spied in this black place. With luck, their legions of barristers shall be unleashed soon upon those who steal souls and copy passion.



You guys are so funny. You talk about high end vehicles and quality craftsmanship as if bikes are the only ones that have this. Much more expensive and complex vehicles deal with this. Check out the kit car market. Shelby Cobras run hundreds of thousands of dollars yet there is a thriving market for clones, replicas, copies however you want to call them. They are even welcome at Cobra clubs/what have you. Real ones have a special place of honor but kits are also impressive. I suggest you find some way to make true frames more appealing.

lets be honest, most of us who buy these bikes would not be buying bikes from your shop anyway. Not what we are after. I suggest you adapt, change is not mandatory. neither is survival. That is the oldest truth.


----------



## Italianrider76

PlatyPius said:


> No, but the world does/should revolve around laws and ethics. I know I'm stretching it on the ethics... no one seems to be ethical these days. ..



I live in Australia and a Pinarello Dogma frameset sells for about $8795au....yes $8795. The Prince sells for about $7695.

$8795 hardly seems ethical. You sound like Nike and Reebok lamenting how fake copies of their shoes cost them zillions in lost revenues yet producing the originals in sweat shops often using child labour for next to nothing and then selling them at a mark up of 10000% shouldn't be questioned. Give us all a freakin break buddy.


----------



## mrbubbles

Ouch. And consider that the AUD is on par with USD and the Dogma cost $5500 in USA.


----------



## DiegoMontoya

PlatyPius said:


> Yeah, the last thing the Chinese authorities care about is counterfeiting. The government probably encourages it.
> 
> Every time someone posts something showing a counterfeit bike, I report the company of origin to the U.S. Customs and Border Protection Agency (http://www.cbp.gov/). They can't stop the production, but they can stop the crap from coming into the U.S.
> 
> I also report it to the IACC. http://www.iacc.org/
> 
> Unfortunately, since Pinarello is an Italian company, the U.S. likely has little initiative to stop the counterfeiters.
> 
> Ergo, I also report it to INDICAM: http://www.indicam.it/
> 
> If nothing else, maybe customs will tie up packages from Greatkeenbike and similar companies for so long that the unscrupulous people who buy this crap will just give up buying it.



Go, Gadget go. LMFAO.
Yes, US Customs (wait, aren't the part of the American authorities?!?) are going to start policing packages from China. Brilliant.


----------



## PlatyPius

Italianrider76 said:


> I live in Australia and a Pinarello Dogma frameset sells for about $8795au....yes $8795. The Prince sells for about $7695.
> 
> $8795 hardly seems ethical. You sound like Nike and Reebok lamenting how fake copies of their shoes cost them zillions in lost revenues yet producing the originals in sweat shops often using child labour for next to nothing and then selling them at a mark up of 10000% shouldn't be questioned. Give us all a freakin break buddy.


I've never said that I agree with Pinarello's pricing. Personally, if I'm going to spend that much on a frame, it's going to be custom. And French. (eg: Cyfac or TIME)
But it isn't like we're talking about a necessity here, are we? No one *needs* a Pinarello. No one needs a Rolex. Lots of people buy fake ones though so people will think they've spent stupid money on a watch. It's all a big willy waving contest.

Pricing ethics aside, though, counterfeiting is never justified. I'm truly amazed that others apparently can't see that stealing someone else's design/intellectual property is wrong. Wrong and illegal. Is it *really* that important that you be seen riding a "Pinarello" that you'll support illegal activity? Don't you feel a little like a turd when you're riding it, knowing that it's a fake? I know I sure as hell would. But, I don't try to impress anyone, as should be obvious from my posts here.


----------



## Italianrider76

mrbubbles said:


> Ouch. And consider that the AUD is on par with USD and the Dogma cost $5500 in USA.


Exactly. The number of people buying things online from the U.S and Europe and bypassing the Australian retailers has really got Australian retailers worried so much so that they have started lobbying the government here to start imposing a 10% on goods purchased online if the value is under $1000.


----------



## FTR

Italianrider76 said:


> Exactly. The number of people buying things online from the U.S and Europe and bypassing the Australian retailers has really got Australian retailers worried so much so that they have started lobbying the government here to start imposing a 10% on goods purchased online if the value is under $1000.


And this idea has already been dismissed as being completely unworkable.
Fact of the matter is that it is not the 10% that is hurting their sales but the additional 100% mark up over what I can purchase from OS in the first place.
*IF * the Aussie retailers dropped their prices to match the OS price I would gladly pay them the 10% mark up.
And it is not perhaps the retailer that is the real issue. Quite often the price I can buy from OS is lower than the price that the retailer can purchase from the wholesaler.

Also items are not counterfeit if they vary fom the original item by a certain percentage (cannot remember what that percentage is). 
:idea: Perhaps an English BB is sufficient variation??


----------



## PlatyPius

FTR said:


> And this idea has already been dismissed as being completely unworkable.
> Fact of the matter is that it is not the 10% that is hurting their sales but the additional 100% mark up over what I can purchase from OS in the first place.
> *IF * the Aussie retailers dropped their prices to match the OS price I would gladly pay them the 10% mark up.
> And it is not perhaps the retailer that is the real issue. Quite often the price I can buy from OS is lower than the price that the retailer can purchase from the wholesaler.
> 
> Also items are not counterfeit if they vary fom the original item by a certain percentage (cannot remember what that percentage is).
> :idea: Perhaps an English BB is sufficient variation??


It's probably similar to our (LBS) problem with Campy. You can buy Campy from England cheaper than we can buy it wholesale.

The BB might be enough, except they're selling them with full Pinarello graphics. If they were blank/raw carbon, it wouldn't be quite as bad.


----------



## stevesbike

FTR said:


> Also items are not counterfeit if they vary fom the original item by a certain percentage (cannot remember what that percentage is).
> :idea: Perhaps an English BB is sufficient variation??


we're talking about the ones that have PINARELLO decals all over them - counterfeit involves violating copyright/trademark laws. These infringements are intended to pass the product off as genuine.


----------



## FTR

PlatyPius said:


> It's probably similar to our (LBS) problem with Campy. You can buy Campy from England cheaper than we can buy it wholesale.
> 
> The BB might be enough, except they're selling them with full Pinarello graphics. If they were blank/raw carbon, it wouldn't be quite as bad.


Well, technically they sell them raw but if I want to arrange for their painters to paint it with Pinarello graphics I can do that.
I could also probably order one with Mercedes Benz stickers, Boeing stickers, Nasa stickers or any number of other things.
It is the client who makes that decision.


----------



## mrbubbles

FTR said:


> Well, technically they sell them raw but if I want to arrange for their painters to paint it with Pinarello graphics I can do that.
> I could also probably order one with Mercedes Benz stickers, Boeing stickers, Nasa stickers or any number of other things.
> It is the client who makes that decision.


I think originally they were selling them raw. Back in 2008 there was a Wilier Le Roi in raw carbon, and some people stuck Wilier Le Roi stickers on them, then eventually people caught on that you could get them to paint the frames for you. Whatever the consumers decide they can get it for you.


----------



## DiegoMontoya

PlatyPius said:


> Maybe there are some attorneys on the board who could contribute an opinion as to whether RBR could in any way be held accountable for providing pictures and links to/for counterfeit products? If so, I'm sure RBR wouldn't want them here either.


Liable for what exactly? RBR is a message board. They are neither buying nor selling anything.


----------



## DiegoMontoya

PlatyPius said:


> It's probably similar to our (LBS) problem with Campy. You can buy Campy from England cheaper than we can buy it wholesale.
> 
> The BB might be enough, except they're selling them with full Pinarello graphics. If they were blank/raw carbon, it wouldn't be quite as bad.



Thank the US Supreme Court for that Campy problem. 5-4 decision in the Leegin case in 2007. Resale price maintenance is now no longer per se illegal (which it had been for the past almost 100 years). Now it's rule of reason. Good luck beating that if you're a plaintiff. 

Yeah, I do agree that selling those frames with the Pinarello paint and stickers is rather lame. But, nobody is being fooled here, and I have zero sympathy for Pinarello for outsourcing their production to Asia so they can make an extra buck.

Personally, Pinarello doesn't hold a candle to Time, but that's another story.


----------



## vladvm

double post


----------



## skygodmatt

PlatyPius said:


> It's probably similar to our (LBS) problem with Campy. You can buy Campy from England cheaper than we can buy it wholesale.
> 
> The BB might be enough, except they're selling them with full Pinarello graphics. If they were blank/raw carbon, it wouldn't be quite as bad.


Yes. You absolutely can. Sites like Ribble.com have it for half of what they sell it for in California. A full 2011 Record group for $1550 with no tax. That's a huge problem for bike shops around here. Most don't even stock the stuff anymore...

As a matter of fact, various shops around California here are telling everyone that if you get Shimano or Campy or any other bike parts overseas or on Ebay-- even new-- and they fail--the manufacturers will not warranty them and their shop will not even help you with any information. Shops are in trouble here. Experienced cyclists that spend mucho money just aren't buying there much. All we want is a new frame NOT the whole dam bike. We can buy the parts cheaper than they can.

If you think about the energy and resources drastically wasted to bring everyone parts from halfway around the world, it will blow your mind. 

Eventually the only solution will be to make stuff in your local area and ban imports. That's what Brazil did. It's working.
This applies to food, textiles, and almost everything. It's a tremendous drain on the planet- the way the system is set-up. We need to make it cheaper to make things here than import them. 

Enough rant...I'm cranking off 300 miles a week now so I am pretty high everyday.


----------



## Tubby1536

DiegoMontoya said:


> Liable for what exactly? RBR is a message board. They are neither buying nor selling anything.


I can't comment on the liability issue as I am not a lawyer. But I suspect that the owners of RBR would not want to get a reputation for promoting the purchase and use of counterfeit products and risk the loss of advertising revenue.

It would be interesting to get some insight from a layer with knowledge in this area. 

There is also a rule in the forum guidelines that you cannot post anything promoting illegal activity. So if these are considered counterfeit product (form a legal entity and not concerned posters) then any talk about Chinarello's should be cut off.

Since I am posting anyway I will weigh in and say regardless of the legality, the fake Pinarello's are pretty cheesy. Leave it blank or put your own graphics on it, don't pretend it is the real thing.


----------



## DiegoMontoya

Tubby1536 said:


> I can't comment on the liability issue as I am not a lawyer. But I suspect that the owners of RBR would not want to get a reputation for promoting the purchase and use of counterfeit products and risk the loss of advertising revenue.
> 
> It would be interesting to get some insight from a layer with knowledge in this area.
> 
> There is also a rule in the forum guidelines that you cannot post anything promoting illegal activity. So if these are considered counterfeit product (form a legal entity and not concerned posters) then any talk about Chinarello's should be cut off.
> 
> Since I am posting anyway I will weigh in and say regardless of the legality, the fake Pinarello's are pretty cheesy. Leave it blank or put your own graphics on it, don't pretend it is the real thing.


If the bike comes blank, and it's up to the client to make it look like a Pinarello, how exactly is it a counterfeit? Good grief.


----------



## DiegoMontoya

skygodmatt said:


> As a matter of fact, various shops around California here are telling everyone that if you get Shimano or Campy or any other bike parts overseas or on Ebay-- even new-- and they fail--the manufacturers will not warranty them and their shop will not even help you with any information. Shops are in trouble here. Experienced cyclists that spend mucho money just aren't buying there much. All we want is a new frame NOT the whole dam bike. We can buy the parts cheaper than they can.


Actually, the manufacturers have to warranty them through the original purchaser. So, basically, you can always get the warranty through the overseas outlet.

Now, I hate the fact that bike shops have been put in this position, but the bottom line is that we all like to save money. Ultimately, much of this has been created by manufacturers. Look at companies like Mavic, Reynolds, Bont, Sram, Pinarello, etc. dumping their stuff on Bonktown, pretty much screwing over the shops.


----------



## Tubby1536

DiegoMontoya said:


> If the bike comes blank, and it's up to the client to make it look like a Pinarello, how exactly is it a counterfeit? Good grief.


Read it again. I did not say they were. I said IF they were. And that is also why I said it would be nice to have a real legal opinion on the matter instead of all the assumptions that people have. Good grief indeed.


----------



## stevesbike

DiegoMontoya said:


> If the bike comes blank, and it's up to the client to make it look like a Pinarello, how exactly is it a counterfeit? Good grief.


You need to read the thread. At post 835 a counterfeit Pinarello appeared - look at the pic. It has Pinarello decals etc. That's when the thread went off the rails - not because people objected to a generic, no-name frame, but to one obviously counterfeit one and a website (greatkeenbikes) that were selling them. The website has been down for a few days - it likely got shut down and the sellers have moved on (money sent to them is likely gone).


----------



## DiegoMontoya

stevesbike said:


> You need to read the thread. At post 835 a counterfeit Pinarello appeared - look at the pic. It has Pinarello decals etc. That's when the thread went off the rails - not because people objected to a generic, no-name frame, but to one obviously counterfeit one and a website (greatkeenbikes) that were selling them. The website has been down for a few days - it likely got shut down and the sellers have moved on (money sent to them is likely gone).


No. The bike is blank and the CLIENT can request the paint job to make it look like a Pinarello. Lame? Yes. But anyone can put Pinarello stickers on any bike.


----------



## ColoRoadie

stevesbike said:


> You need to read the thread. At post 835 a counterfeit Pinarello appeared - look at the pic. It has Pinarello decals etc. That's when the thread went off the rails - not because people objected to a generic, no-name frame, but to one obviously counterfeit one and a website (greatkeenbikes) that were selling them. The website has been down for a few days - it likely got shut down and the sellers have moved on (money sent to them is likely gone).



There have been a few ranting about how unsafe etc chinese frames are since the beginning of the first thread. This is thread number four...so somewhere near 5000 posts. Nevermind that there has not been one failure that I've heard of and the thousands of posts from very happy customers. We've seen somewhat less than half a dozen of the Pinarello clones, and yet since that is something you and your two twins can sink your teeth into..we are subjected to page after page of your worthless ranting. 

The real problem is that you three choose to make your living off the overinflated prices of frames here in the states...so you see these chinese frames as an attack on your lifestyle. Whether or not the Pinarello clones had shown up, you and yours would still be in here ranting. It has been thus since the beginning of these threads and thus it shall always be. It's always the same old tired rant....you're all going to get ripped off, the chinese are going to screw you, your bike will fall apart...blah blah blah...

Get a hobby.


----------



## stevesbike

actually I purchased a tt frame from Dengfu way back in the original thread. Trouble is, you are failing to distinguish between an open mold 'generic' frame and attempts to sell counterfeit frames. It's a pretty basic distinction. And the fact is, greatkeenbikes illustrates their frames with Pinarello decals and details in terms of frame shape. That's illegal and wrong. Making an open mold frame isn't....


----------



## ColoRoadie

stevesbike said:


> actually I purchased a tt frame from Dengfu way back in the original thread. Trouble is, you are failing to distinguish between an open mold 'generic' frame and attempts to sell counterfeit frames. It's a pretty basic distinction. And the fact is, greatkeenbikes illustrates their frames with Pinarello decals and details in terms of frame shape. That's illegal and wrong. Making an open mold frame isn't....



How many of these counterfeits have we seen in here? Two? Three? Do you really think that many is worth all of the emotional ranting you and your two twins have subjected this thread to? 

What you are attempting to tell us is that your complaint here is that the Pina copies are illegal? Do you rant like this over drivers who speed? People who cheat on their taxes? Do you walk the streets at night in a Neighborhood Watch T-shirt carrying a flashlight and a cell phone?

My belief is that you couldn't care less what is legal and is not...your motives lie elsewhere. Pinarello doesn't need your protection. They have lawyers and employees whose job it is to protect the company and even they are not in here balling at the top of their lungs. If you want to say that the copies are lame or illegal, then say it and move on...page after page of your whining is getting old.


----------



## stevesbike

good thing your endorsements of the dark side are so refreshing...


----------



## Vee

This thread should be moved to Politics Only...


----------



## tthome

Few things to chime in and just my 2 cents about ethics/legality. All this talk about liability / legality / counterfit this and that is very debatable I'm sure (and for another thread). If you're buying directly from the manufacturer and there are no decals on it to state otherwise, I don't see the problem. Now if you're buying it prepainted with Pinerello and trying to sell it off as one that's a different story. That should be stopped as it will/could contaminate the supply line for many cyclists looking to buy second hand. Many of us here are not doing that. We're putting our own custom logos or themes on these bikes that make them unique to us or our cycling groups/teams. If these suppliers who sell to the big names will also sell to us directly for less money then I say go for it. Are you cutting out the middle man/men, sure but who said you had to buy from a bike shop or dealer? Many of us cherry pick new parts/bikes off craigslist and ebay, is that not the same thing? I support my local bike shop and my debit card can attest to that. 

That being said and trying to stay on point with the topic of this thread AND GETTING IT BACK ON TRACK, Working on upgrading my own personalized LiveSTRONG themed FM001 sticker layout. I've asked Marco Pollo in Brazil to help me come up with a better design for my LiveSTRONG FM001 and this is what he's been able to do for me. Actual pictures coming up once the stickers arrive.

The only bike that I know of that is a LiveSTRONG themed bike is obviuosly a TREK Madone, but I'm not in a financial position to be able to plunked down $4000+ for the one I want so TREK can give them a portion of the cost. I'll give cash directly to LiveSTRONG myself thank you (and claim tax deduction). As you can see by the decal design I'm not trying to pass off my bike as a TREK at all, just simply plastering LiveSTRONG all over it because I support the organization. My way of supporting them and spreading the word. I also don't plan on selling the bike and obviously don't plan to pass it off as something it's not like a TREK by putting TREK logos on the bike.

As for safety on these chinese frames. I own the FM001, the FM015 and some other variant of the FM004 (not sure it has an official number) and all three are solid for the price. Not perfect, but worth what was paid. If I crash one out, I just buy another. I didn't expect the quality/finish of a my name brand bikes and I didn't get it either. I own have a 2007 Raleigh Compeition and a 2010 Rocky Mountain Solo 70 RSL that put these 3 chinese frame to shame in terms of paint and finish. I also have manufacturer warranties with these two name brands and ZERO with the chinese carbons. Is there risk in buying these frames, sure but it's worth the cost savings to try and its also the reason many people like you and me are here at RBR to share what we find out with our fellow cyclist. My thinking goes like this; I've bought high end bikes and I own 2 now and they're great bikes. If my budget was $4500 on a bike why not own 3 for the same price? As for the ride of all 5 of my bikes...if I close my eyes I honestly would have a hard time telling the difference.


----------



## vladvm

tthome said:


> Not perfect, but worth what was paid. If I crash one out, I just buy another.As for the ride ...if I close my eyes I honestly would have a hard time telling the difference.


Well said. I like your custom decal. I have the same custom decal. Only problem is the tips of the vinyl stickers peel off, so i just peeled off all the orange decals, but left the letterings. I like the naked carbon look anyway.


----------



## ntb1001

stevesbike said:


> You need to read the thread. At post 835 a counterfeit Pinarello appeared - look at the pic. It has Pinarello decals etc. That's when the thread went off the rails - not because people objected to a generic, no-name frame, but to one obviously counterfeit one and a website (greatkeenbikes) that were selling them. The website has been down for a few days - it likely got shut down and the sellers have moved on (money sent to them is likely gone).


Ya, I guess my money is gone....

My frame just showed up at the front door just I was reading all the petty complaining going on around here by small minded people with an outdated business plan. The local auto industry has just had to re-invent itself, albeit with some government help, I don't think that any agency is to worried about some bicycle frames coming into North America labeled as Pinarello's. In this area there are several Chinese malls full of every new movie at the theater available on DVD, and most of them are perfect copies. When the police can't do any thing about these vendors selling brand new movies for $2 each right out in the open, what chance is there for mainland Chinese companies to be affected by the complaints from the several grouches here?

Here is the latest frame received today....

The finish is pretty good, and it has a real head tube crest now, not a sticker.


----------



## vladvm

ntb1001 said:


> Here is the latest frame received today....
> 
> The finish is pretty good, and it has a real head tube crest now, not a sticker.


Nice color scheme! Have fun building it! Post a pix of the finished product.


----------



## fab4

"Is it real? Or is it Memorex?" Nice frame!


----------



## mrbubbles

ntb1001 said:


> Here is the latest frame received today....
> 
> The finish is pretty good, and it has a real head tube crest now, not a sticker.


Awesome frame. Do you have any pictures of the non-drive side?


----------



## dgoularte

*Thank you for Info*

As you can see I am a new memeber of the forum, however not new to reading all the threads here. I want to thank all those that have posted the good and the bad about these frames. I am currently trading emails with Mina from from Dengfu about purchasing a FM028 (it is the only one that I can get in a 60).


----------



## phoeve

Mina @ dengfu is great! I preferred texting her real time via Skype.



dgoularte said:


> As you can see I am a new memeber of the forum, however not new to reading all the threads here. I want to thank all those that have posted the good and the bad about these frames. I am currently trading emails with Mina from from Dengfu about purchasing a FM028 (it is the only one that I can get in a 60).


----------



## Hbock

Just ordered a FM018 non-isp from Mina @ Dengfu. Should ship in the next few days - maybe longer due to the Chinese new year.

Thanks for all of those posting details on this forum. Very helpfu.


----------



## CyKlo

dgoularte said:


> As you can see I am a new memeber of the forum, however not new to reading all the threads here. I want to thank all those that have posted the good and the bad about these frames. I am currently trading emails with Mina from from Dengfu about purchasing a FM028 (it is the only one that I can get in a 60).


I ordered an FM015 from Mina at DengFu. The communication was excellent, the shipping was VERY fast, the product was exactly as advertised. The entire process was painless and successful. There are many comments here about good dealings with several entities. All I can say is that Mina and DengFu are solid for sure!


----------



## CyKlo

PlatyPius said:


> It's probably similar to our (LBS) problem with Campy. You can buy Campy from England cheaper than we can buy it wholesale.
> 
> The BB might be enough, except they're selling them with full Pinarello graphics. If they were blank/raw carbon, it wouldn't be quite as bad.


Hey, PladyPUSS - Who made you the Zsar of Ethics dog? You should locate some cheese for that Whine and shut your blow hole. I mean enough already from you complaining douches. You probably had one of those fake phone antennas on your ride or perhaps shampoo with Rogaine no? You know damn well you have posed as something you aren't or tried to pass something you have off as something it isn't. You own a bike shop and get all kids of gear - then run your elitist pie hole and condescend the simple actions of others who are searching for a less expensive and reasonable option for their ride. I am gonna do this, I am gonna do that. You sound like one of those kids that got throttled all the time. Get a life dude.

No I don't have a Chinarello or stickers on my bik at all.


----------



## PlatyPius

CyKlo said:


> Hey, PladyPUSS - Who made you the Zsar of Ethics dog? You should locate some cheese for that Whine and shut your blow hole. I mean enough already from you complaining douches. You probably had one of those fake phone antennas on your ride or perhaps shampoo with Rogaine no? You know damn well you have posed as something you aren't or tried to pass something you have off as something it isn't. You own a bike shop and get all kids of gear - then run your elitist pie hole and condescend the simple actions of others who are searching for a less expensive and reasonable option for their ride. I am gonna do this, I am gonna do that. You sound like one of those kids that got throttled all the time. Get a life dude.
> 
> No I don't have a Chinarello or stickers on my bik at all.


You really don't have a clue, do you?

I ride a 2010 Raleigh Sport. Retail: $650.
No Rogaine.
No fake cell antennas.
No big loud truck.
No giant speakers in car.
No flashy car.

Honestly, I don't give a [email protected]# what other people think. I'm not here to impress others.

I have a life. As you mentioned, I own a bike shop.

I don't pose as something I'm not. Never have. 

Calling me elitist is so f#$king funny, you have no idea. How many 300 pound shop owners with a $600 bike would you call "elitist"?


----------



## Coolhand

*Moderators Note*



CyKlo said:


> Hey, PladyPUSS - Who made you the Zsar of Ethics dog? You should locate some cheese for that Whine and shut your blow hole. I mean enough already from you complaining douches. You probably had one of those fake phone antennas on your ride or perhaps shampoo with Rogaine no? You know damn well you have posed as something you aren't or tried to pass something you have off as something it isn't. You own a bike shop and get all kids of gear - then run your elitist pie hole and condescend the simple actions of others who are searching for a less expensive and reasonable option for their ride. I am gonna do this, I am gonna do that. You sound like one of those kids that got throttled all the time. Get a life dude.
> 
> No I don't have a Chinarello or stickers on my bik at all.


Enjoy the posting vacation.


----------



## mrwirey

*Parked at work...in my office*

All,
This is a lousy picture, but I haven't posted a picture of my Single Speedster since I built her up. She is a 56cm FM028 (from Mina at Dengfu). Most of the bolts are titanium or aluminum. The bars are 26.0mm Easton EC90. The stem is a 26.0mm / 120mm Syntace. The saddle is a Chinese carbon jobbie (100 grams). The brakes are Cane Creek SL200 (69.95 from Bikewagon as I recall). The crankset is a 172.5mm compact Ritchey WCS. The bottom bracket is Dura Ace Octalink. The Wheels are Ritchey WCS Protocol with a Campy freehub and Veloplugs instead of rim strips. The pedals are Xpedo Ti/Ti (170 grams!) road. The bottle cages are Serfas carbon. The wheel skewers are some 50 gram Ti jobbies. Gearing is 48/17. The rear gear is made by Gusset and the 'rear derailleur' is from Paul's Components (so I can run a 'dingle speed' later if I decide to do so). Total weight is 14.64 pounds without the water bottles. She is just about perfect for my commute (8 miles each way with about 850 feet of climbing) and puts a smile on my face. I will post better pictures when I feel so inclined. Take care and enjoy your Chinese carbon bikes.
Very respectfully, Tim
P.S. She measures 22.5" from the tip of the saddle to the center of the stem/bar junction.
P.S.S She measures 30.5" from the center of the BB to the top of the saddle along the seat tube.
P.S.S.S. ...Matte Black if anyone cares.


----------



## lamazion

Do those of you putting custom decals on your bike apply a clear coat afterward to protect them? If not, how well do they hold up?

I think I've decided to build a FM028, I'm just trying to decide on the finishing details.


----------



## vladvm

lamazion said:


> Do those of you putting custom decals on your bike apply a clear coat afterward to protect them? If not, how well do they hold up?
> 
> I think I've decided to build a FM028, I'm just trying to decide on the finishing details.


I have the custom decal. Only problem is the tips of the vinyl stickers peel off, so i just peeled off all the orange decals, but left the letterings. I like the naked carbon look anyway.


----------



## forge55b

vladvm said:


> I have the custom decal. Only problem is the tips of the vinyl stickers peel off, so i just peeled off all the orange decals, but left the letterings. I like the naked carbon look anyway.


so is this frame a FM028? I see others post what they say is a FM028 but it looks different with a straight frame on all dimensions......or am I just confused on what is going on

also thanks for all the posts that keep going, gives a TON of incite on how to go about building one of these frames and potential problems.

on a side note, which ebay sellers are confirmed to be legit from dengfu and are any confirmed to not be legit off ebay?


----------



## doggatas

nice ride mrwirey


----------



## vladvm

forge55b said:


> so is this frame a FM028? I see others post what they say is a FM028 but it looks different with a straight frame on all dimensions......or am I just confused on what is going on
> 
> also thanks for all the posts that keep going, gives a TON of incite on how to go about building one of these frames and potential problems.
> 
> on a side note, which ebay sellers are confirmed to be legit from dengfu and are any confirmed to not be legit off ebay?


From maniac bicycle, contact is yang li, 10 days ship to Canada, quick with replies to email. Accepts paypal. I bought outside eBay so it was cheaper when I combined everything and (saved $175 compared to eBay buy it now) No name frame 2010 model 54cm 3k finish Frame+fork+seatpost+ergo handlebar+two bottle cages+seat clamp+headset+extra hanger+shipping $500. No duties or extra fees. Full refund if you want to return, including your shipment cost. 

Make sure you list the eBay item number with item name when you order and just make sure it is easy to understand.


----------



## PBrooks

no that is not a fm028.


----------



## boleiro

forge55b said:


> so is this frame a FM028? I see others post what they say is a FM028 but it looks different with a straight frame on all dimensions......or am I just confused on what is going on
> 
> also thanks for all the posts that keep going, gives a TON of incite on how to go about building one of these frames and potential problems.
> 
> on a side note, which ebay sellers are confirmed to be legit from dengfu and are any confirmed to not be legit off ebay?



this frame is the FM101, or more infamously known around these parts as a "chinarello."


----------



## ColoRoadie

PlatyPius said:


> Honestly, I don't give a [email protected]# what other people think. I'm not here to impress others.
> 
> I have a life. As you mentioned, I own a bike shop.
> 
> I don't pose as something I'm not. Never have.
> 
> Calling me elitist is so f#$king funny, you have no idea. How many 300 pound shop owners with a $600 bike would you call "elitist"?


Oh, I don't know about all that. The first line in your signature says you are a shop owner. You are, by that statement caring what people think because you are announcing your qualifications with every post. You are posing as an expert and trying to impress by suggesting that you could possibly be an authority in this field. In so doing, you are attempting to insert yourself into a group of people, the majority of which frankly are not 300lb guys on $600 bikes that put in less miles a year than many of us have put on our Chinese frames in two weeks. This is a thread on carbon bike frames from china...says so in the title. At 300lbs, are you looking to buy carbon or is your interest in this thread only to cause trouble because they are direct to consumer Chinese frames...which bypass guys like you? I think the answer is obvious. 

Please, stop ranting in this thread. You have made your argument, such as it is, for any who care to hear it....so why keep restating it? Is it ego because the vast majority don't agree with you? Do you think you will change their minds? Do you hope to influence future buyers in some way? Or are you just slinging mud for the drama factor of it...because business is bad, your feelings are hurt and this board is your personal Jerry Springer show....


----------



## PlatyPius

ColoRoadie said:


> (bulletpoints by me)
> 1. You are posing as an expert and trying to impress by suggesting that you could possibly be an authority in this field.
> 
> 2. In so doing, you are attempting to insert yourself into a group of people, the majority of which frankly are not 300lb guys on $600 bikes that put in less miles a year than many of us have put on our Chinese frames in two weeks.
> 
> 3. At 300lbs, are you looking to buy carbon or is your interest in this thread only to cause trouble because they are direct to consumer Chinese frames...which bypass guys like you? I think the answer is obvious.


1. Owning a bike shop doesn't make anyone an expert, just like owning a car dealership doesn't make one an expert on cars. I've never claimed to be an expert. I only put the bike shop thing in my signature as a warning that my opinions might be biased, and at the urging of others.

2. Stereotype much? Do you know how many miles I put in? Granted, it wasn't many last year because of working 7 days a week. Prior to that, though, 3000 wasn't that uncommon. I think it was only 1000-1200 last year. You guys must ride a LOT in 2 weeks...

3. Again with the stereotyping and false beliefs. Who's the elitist here? No, the answer isn't obvious. The reason I'm riding a Raleigh Sport is because I sold my Scott CR1 Pro while it was still worth something. My next bike will likely be a TIME RX Instinct, which I have been assured will handle my weight just fine.

As to why I've been posting here...
a) counterfeiting is illegal. You'll note that I've only addressed the counterfeiting.

b) every time I think I'm done, some idiot posts something stupid about me, about my shop, or about how counterfeiting isn't wrong because Pinarello charges too much.

Now, I'm going to take those statements regarding my obvious inability to ride more than 50 miles in a year, and my inability to ride a carbon bike as personal insults and treat them as such.


----------



## jonny89

*focus cayo vs china frame based bike*

Hi guys,

I would like to purchase my first road bike but I'm undecided on the characteristics of the carbon frame...  

the choice is between a Focus Cayo 3.0 and an "home made" bike with a china carbon frame FM028 

The price between Cayo and home made bike is the same (with the same grupset and some light components and wheels of course!  ) the Cayo weight 8,4kg vs FM028 7,2kg

The main difference is the asymmetric fork tube in the FM028...

I want a comfortable bike ... What do you recommend?  

Thanks :thumbsup: 
John

p.s.: Sorry for my bad english :mad2:


----------



## mrwirey

*PlatyPius*

I checked out your website. You have a nice shop and a well thought out website. I wish you much success. Too bad you weren't here in sunny southern Arizona. 
Very respectfully,


----------



## PlatyPius

mrwirey said:


> I checked out your website. You have a nice shop and a well thought out website. I wish you much success. Too bad you weren't here in sunny southern Arizona.
> Very respectfully,


Thanks!

I agree that it's too bad I'm not in Arizona - most of my relatives live there. I had hoped to be there this winter, but I had to stay here so my wife could go back to England for a few months.


----------



## vladvm

boleiro said:


> this frame is the FM101, or more infamously known around these parts as a "chinarello."


actually RFM101 but you are correct. this is the link to greatkeen, but I ordered mine from ebay. 
http://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/cp_detail.php?id=64&nowmenuid=12&cpath=0009:&catid=0


----------



## ColoRoadie

jonny89 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I would like to purchase my first road bike but I'm undecided on the characteristics of the carbon frame...
> 
> the choice is between a Focus Cayo 3.0 and an "home made" bike with a china carbon frame FM028
> 
> The price between Cayo and home made bike is the same (with the same grupset and some light components and wheels of course!  ) the Cayo weight 8,4kg vs FM028 7,2kg
> 
> The main difference is the asymmetric fork tube in the FM028...
> 
> I want a comfortable bike ... What do you recommend?
> 
> Thanks :thumbsup:
> John
> 
> p.s.: Sorry for my bad english :mad2:



If the Cayo is a complete bike, you might find that easier than building from scratch on your first road bike, though you have said nothing in your post about your mechanical ability. I built my FM027 pretty easily with the help of those in here, but it isn't my first road bike so I had some idea where my fit would be. I still went through a few stems, spacer configs, different bars etc before I found what worked for me reach wise. Building a bike from scratch is a bit of a process and the parts can add up if you don't have a donor bike or spare parts lying around like many who build these. 

With that said, I very much enjoyed building my own...and designing the paint scheme has been a ton of fun as well. Just giving you food for thought...and in the end you will have to decide which you would rather have and dont forget to check into the geometry for fit! Take your time and let us know which way you jump.


----------



## DiegoMontoya

Looks like Greatkeenbike's web site is back up and running just fine.


----------



## mrwirey

jonny89 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I would like to purchase my first road bike but I'm undecided on the characteristics of the carbon frame...
> 
> the choice is between a Focus Cayo 3.0 and an "home made" bike with a china carbon frame FM028.
> 
> The price between Cayo and home made bike is the same (with the same grupset and some light components and wheels of course!  ) the Cayo weight 8,4kg vs FM028 7,2kg
> 
> The main difference is the asymmetric fork tube in the FM028...
> 
> I want a comfortable bike ... What do you recommend?
> 
> Thanks :thumbsup:
> John
> 
> p.s.: Sorry for my bad english :mad2:


Jonny89,
I agree with ColoRoadie on this one. I checked out the Focus Cayo and it looks like a nicely built bike, which is ready to go. Even if this were not your first road bike I would have a difficult time steering you away from the Focus. The frame looks like an excellent platform to upgrade if (and when) the weight weenie bug every strikes you. I read some online reviews of the Focus Cayo line and all of them rated the bicycle as excellent. Additionally, the nice thing about purchasing your first bike from a Local Bike Shop is most of them will swap stems, seatposts, bars, and seats (or give you a discount on purchasing replacement items) to ensure the bike fits you properly. Believe me when I say it is all about the fit; however, even that will change over time as you become more/less flexible so a good relationship with a dealer is important. That said, if you decide to go the Chinese route feel free to ask any questions you may have. I own two FM028s and I am happy with them.
Very respectfully,


----------



## thefutureofamerica

skygodmatt said:


> Yes. You absolutely can. Sites like Ribble.com have it for half of what they sell it for in California. A full 2011 Record group for $1550 with no tax. That's a huge problem for bike shops around here. Most don't even stock the stuff anymore...


Well, it had to happen eventually... we agree on something. I think what's even worse than the markup is the stock issues. If I pop a mavic spoke, I'm SOL. Need a shimano freehub body? That's a special order. Break a frame? I've seen teammates wait upwards of 6 months for even a US-made Cannondale crash replacement. It's not just about price. I'm willing to pay a premium to a well-stocked, knowledgeable shop, but I'm not willing to pay a premium AND wait longer AND choose from a narrower selection AND make a second trip back to the shop to pick up ordered parts. 

My LBS is GREAT at supporting races... one of the best in the USA. We have NRC racing here and *had* the Tour of Missouri largely due to the shop owner's connections and efforts. If the shop was a 501c3, I would gladly pony up as an annual supporter. But to my mind, the loss of local distribution channels totally kills the case for buying after-market parts from shops, once you have the experience to know what you need.


----------



## jonny89

ColoRoadie said:


> If the Cayo is a complete bike, you might find that easier than building from scratch on your first road bike, though you have said nothing in your post about your mechanical ability. I built my FM027 pretty easily with the help of those in here, but it isn't my first road bike so I had some idea where my fit would be. I still went through a few stems, spacer configs, different bars etc before I found what worked for me reach wise. Building a bike from scratch is a bit of a process and the parts can add up if you don't have a donor bike or spare parts lying around like many who build these.
> 
> With that said, I very much enjoyed building my own...and designing the paint scheme has been a ton of fun as well. Just giving you food for thought...and in the end you will have to decide which you would rather have and dont forget to check into the geometry for fit! Take your time and let us know which way you jump.





mrwirey said:


> Jonny89,
> I agree with ColoRoadie on this one. I checked out the Focus Cayo and it looks like a nicely built bike, which is ready to go. Even if this were not your first road bike I would have a difficult time steering you away from the Focus. The frame looks like an excellent platform to upgrade if (and when) the weight weenie bug every strikes you. I read some online reviews of the Focus Cayo line and all of them rated the bicycle as excellent. Additionally, the nice thing about purchasing your first bike from a Local Bike Shop is most of them will swap stems, seatposts, bars, and seats (or give you a discount on purchasing replacement items) to ensure the bike fits you properly. Believe me when I say it is all about the fit; however, even that will change over time as you become more/less flexible so a good relationship with a dealer is important. That said, if you decide to go the Chinese route feel free to ask any questions you may have. I own two FM028s and I am happy with them.
> Very respectfully,



Meanwhile, thanks to both for advice.

I like Focus Cayo frame more than FM028 but I consider the chinese frame because more people say that FM028 it's very well frame and specifically more comfortable.

The most important difference that I've noted between FM028 and Focus Cayo frame is the steering tube (1-1/8 1-1/2) of FM028... it's more important?!?!?!

My answer is... is the Focus Cayo frame poor than FM028 or it's a valid frame?

Thanks
John


----------



## mrwirey

jonny89 said:


> Meanwhile, thanks to both for advice.
> 
> I like Focus Cayo frame more than FM028 but I consider the chinese frame because more people say that FM028 it's very well frame and specifically more comfortable.
> 
> The most important difference that I've noted between FM028 and Focus Cayo frame is the steering tube (1-1/8 1-1/2) of FM028... it's more important?!?!?!
> 
> My answer is... is the Focus Cayo frame poor than FM028 or it's a valid frame?
> 
> Thanks
> John


John,
If it were me I would go for the Focus and I own two FM028s. All of the Focus Cayo reviewers rave about the Focus frame and its handling characteristics. I own a number of bikes with standard (1"), oversize (1-1/8"), and oversize tapered (1-1/8" & 1-1/2") and I do not feel the difference between the oversize and the oversize tapered. I imagine a pro can feel the extra stiffness in the fork on super fast decents, but for me it is not an issue. I do not own a Focus, but it looks good to me. The main differrence between the Focus Cayo and the FM028 appears to be the headtube length. The Cayo's headtube looks pretty short, which would make for a more aggressive setup with regard to seat height / bar drop. That is one thing to consider. I would compare specifications and geometries. That may make the decision for you.
Very respectfully,


----------



## jonny89

mrwirey said:


> John,
> If it were me I would go for the Focus and I own two FM028s. All of the Focus Cayo reviewers rave about the Focus frame and its handling characteristics. I own a number of bikes with standard (1"), oversize (1-1/8"), and oversize tapered (1-1/8" & 1-1/2") and I do not feel the difference between the oversize and the oversize tapered. I imagine a pro can feel the extra stiffness in the fork on super fast decents, but for me it is not an issue. I do not own a Focus, but it looks good to me. The main differrence between the Focus Cayo and the FM028 appears to be the headtube length. The Cayo's headtube looks pretty short, which would make for a more aggressive setup with regard to seat height / bar drop. That is one thing to consider. I would compare specifications and geometries. That may make the decision for you.
> Very respectfully,


Thank for interesting Mr Wirey ;-)

Now I'm more convinced for Cayo frame...  

The most important thing I want is the comfort of the frame.
For my "comfort requirements" cayo would be a right choice?

See photo below...

Focus Cayo rear stays (is the right term stays? ...in Italian say "carro") are biggher than Fm028... this mean that cayo it's less comfortable than fm028? 

https://img11.imageshack.us/img11/2913/cayovsfm028.jpg

In any case, my measurements are:

Height: 178
Crutch: 84,5
Trunk: 61
Arm: 65

Focus Cayo geometry
FM028 geometry

What do you recommend?  

Thanks a lot :thumbsup: 
John


----------



## boleiro

all you FM015 owners, what headset are you using with this frame? I am looking for as low profile a headset as I can get with this frame. First, what is the stack height of the chinese no namer that can be purchased with the framesets? Or, what name brand headset are you using successfully with the 015 and what is the lowest height these offer? thanks.


----------



## skygodmatt

thefutureofamerica said:


> Well, it had to happen eventually... we agree on something. I think what's even worse than the markup is the stock issues. If I pop a mavic spoke, I'm SOL. Need a shimano freehub body? That's a special order. Break a frame? I've seen teammates wait upwards of 6 months for even a US-made Cannondale crash replacement. It's not just about price. I'm willing to pay a premium to a well-stocked, knowledgeable shop, but I'm not willing to pay a premium AND wait longer AND choose from a narrower selection AND make a second trip back to the shop to pick up ordered parts.
> 
> My LBS is GREAT at supporting races... one of the best in the USA. We have NRC racing here and *had* the Tour of Missouri largely due to the shop owner's connections and efforts. If the shop was a 501c3, I would gladly pony up as an annual supporter. But to my mind, the loss of local distribution channels totally kills the case for buying after-market parts from shops, once you have the experience to know what you need.


I hear you...

Most often when I go to the bike shop I get the " We can order it for you " spiel. 
I always know that I can order it too....and I'll get it faster and save 30% plus another 9% in tax. 
The whole point of paying retail is to see it and then get it now.


----------



## PlatyPius

skygodmatt said:


> I hear you...
> 
> Most often when I go to the bike shop I get the " We can order it for you " spiel.
> I always know that I can order it too....and I'll get it faster and save 30% plus another 9% in tax.
> The whole point of paying retail is to see it and then get it now.


If I don't have something in stock that someone wants, I can usually get it the next day. The warehouse for most parts is only 150 or so miles away. I also just order it - I don't make them pay for it (unless I'm broke at the time). So, they still get to play with it and see it before they buy it.

It would be nice if more shops had the ability/desire to get parts the next day. It would lead to a lot more "go ahead and order it" rather than "yeah, I can order it online, too..."


----------



## alexb618

boleiro said:


> all you FM015 owners, what headset are you using with this frame? I am looking for as low profile a headset as I can get with this frame. First, what is the stack height of the chinese no namer that can be purchased with the framesets? Or, what name brand headset are you using successfully with the 015 and what is the lowest height these offer? thanks.


i am using the headset that came with the frame from china except i replaced the cover of the top bearing with a campy record one i had because it gave a slightly lower stack height

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/au/campagnolo-record-hidden-1-18-inch-headset/


----------



## boleiro

thanks alex, exactly what I wanted to know, how to get a lower stack.


----------



## persondude27

alexb618 said:


> i am using the headset that came with the frame from china except i replaced the cover of the top bearing with a campy record one i had because it gave a slightly lower stack height
> 
> http://www.wiggle.co.uk/au/campagnolo-record-hidden-1-18-inch-headset/


Slightly lower stack height was worth 1/3 of the cost of the frame? 

Also, mrwirey, I love your build.


----------



## fab4

ntb1001 said:


> Ya, I guess my money is gone....
> 
> My frame just showed up at the front door just I was reading all the petty complaining going on around here by small minded people with an outdated business plan. The local auto industry has just had to re-invent itself, albeit with some government help, I don't think that any agency is to worried about some bicycle frames coming into North America labeled as Pinarello's. In this area there are several Chinese malls full of every new movie at the theater available on DVD, and most of them are perfect copies. When the police can't do any thing about these vendors selling brand new movies for $2 each right out in the open, what chance is there for mainland Chinese companies to be affected by the complaints from the several grouches here?
> 
> Here is the latest frame received today....
> 
> The finish is pretty good, and it has a real head tube crest now, not a sticker.


What size is your "Chinarello"?


----------



## flyor64

Disclaimer: Possible stupid question alert.

I've gotten my quotes and geometry, etc, and am planning to order a frame after the Chinese New Year (which is a welcome extra 10 days to make sure I am on the right path )

I'm leaning towards ordering from Jenny at Hongfu, who seems to get good feedback here.

So here's the potentially silly question: Can one get a 12K finish in matte?

I had asked for a matte finish and am being told it only comes in 12K at the moment. I guess I don't really mind that weave but I don't really want a shiny finish. 

Short of a getting a straight answer on the emails I thought I'd ask here.

----

A follow-on thought here is how hard would it be get the frame in raw and just "matte" clear coat it? Possible?

Thanks in advance for the help.


----------



## GoingCarbon

flyor64 said:


> So here's the potentially silly question: Can one get a 12K finish in matte?


I haven't ordered mine yet so I might be talking outta the top of my head but if you want a matte finish, don't you just pick your colour (I'm assuming you want black) and ask for it to be painted with a matte finish?


----------



## alexb618

persondude27 said:


> Slightly lower stack height was worth 1/3 of the cost of the frame?


i already had it


----------



## ntb1001

fab4 said:


> What size is your "Chinarello"?



It is the smaller size the offer. I believe it is a 48. I bought it for my son.I just ordered a set of Chinese 60mm tubulars for it last night.


----------



## Vee

flyor64 said:


> Disclaimer: Possible stupid question alert.
> 
> I've gotten my quotes and geometry, etc, and am planning to order a frame after the Chinese New Year (which is a welcome extra 10 days to make sure I am on the right path )
> 
> I'm leaning towards ordering from Jenny at Hongfu, who seems to get good feedback here.
> 
> So here's the potentially silly question: Can one get a 12K finish in matte?
> 
> I had asked for a matte finish and am being told it only comes in 12K at the moment. I guess I don't really mind that weave but I don't really want a shiny finish.
> 
> Short of a getting a straight answer on the emails I thought I'd ask here.
> 
> ----
> 
> A follow-on thought here is how hard would it be get the frame in raw and just "matte" clear coat it? Possible?
> 
> Thanks in advance for the help.


I assume you know this, but the glossy vs matte is just the finish and sheen of the clearcoat. Any frame with any weave can be matte or glossy. The reason they are telling you they only have 12k Matte available right now is probably because they have sold out of 3k Matte and are in the process of ordering more.


----------



## vladvm

flyor64 said:


> Disclaimer: Possible stupid question alert.
> 
> I've gotten my quotes and geometry, etc, and am planning to order a frame after the Chinese New Year (which is a welcome extra 10 days to make sure I am on the right path )
> 
> I'm leaning towards ordering from Jenny at Hongfu, who seems to get good feedback here.
> 
> So here's the potentially silly question: Can one get a 12K finish in matte?
> 
> I had asked for a matte finish and am being told it only comes in 12K at the moment. I guess I don't really mind that weave but I don't really want a shiny finish.
> 
> Short of a getting a straight answer on the emails I thought I'd ask here.
> 
> ----
> 
> A follow-on thought here is how hard would it be get the frame in raw and just "matte" clear coat it? Possible?
> 
> Thanks in advance for the help.


It is a $60 option to matte clear coat and usually longer wait.


----------



## karlo

vladvm said:


> It is a $60 option to matte clear coat and usually longer wait.


Mina and Tony at DengFu charged me $40 for matte finish and only took 2 more days, just another option.


----------



## fab4

So here's the potentially silly question: Can one get a 12K finish in matte?



Yes. Hongfu can make you a frame in a 12k matte finish. Or if you can wait 5 to 8 weeks in any matte finish you like, e.g., all black matte, 3k matte, or UD matte.


----------



## cfred84

Here are pics of the 2 FM015, one in 53 the other in 55cm I ordered from Mina @Dengfu.
Ordered through her 1 previous without any problems. Arrived today about a week after shipping out!!
Painting is good. More than decent for what I paid!
Below are the pics of the frame + fork with the wheels in to check if the alighnment is right!

View attachment 222810


View attachment 222811



Only minor hiccup is that the fork for my matte black frame came with decals on the inside right
Shall contact Mina to see if I can get it exchanged or something
Else will probably have to sand it down and spray paint it!

View attachment 222812


----------



## flyor64

Vee said:


> I assume you know this, but the glossy vs matte is just the finish and sheen of the clearcoat. Any frame with any weave can be matte or glossy. The reason they are telling you they only have 12k Matte available right now is probably because they have sold out of 3k Matte and are in the process of ordering more.


Ya know I did know that I guess...but I have multiple responses to my request for a matte finish, and I keep getting the we only have 12K now response.

I will go back with the question differently, i.e. what is the cost for the 12K in matte finish?  

Cheers to all for the responses.


----------



## cokex

Good to see the thread is back on track ..


----------



## providince

Has anyone heard back from any of the manufacturers. I believe today is their new year but does that mean they will probably be back tomorrow?


----------



## cokex

providince said:


> Has anyone heard back from any of the manufacturers. I believe today is their new year but does that mean they will probably be back tomorrow?


I wouldn't expect to hear anything till next week ..


----------



## Uppenbarligen...

This is my build. Ordered it from Mina at Dengfu. Got it almost a month ago after ordering it during the first half of December (it was delivered in the midst of Christmas and took almost 3 weeks for EMS to get it to Sweden). The handling by Mina was excellent. The build went without any problems. I changed to new tires on my training wheels at the same time and that was the hardest part together with fitting the cables through the internal routed handlebar.

I ordered frame, fork, headset, bottle cages, integrated handlebar and seat post from Dengfu. The only disappointment is the weight of the seat post and the fitting of the saddle. The group is a complete Sram Force 2010. With these wheels the weight is approx 7.7 kg.

I have only tried it out during a club training indoors but I really liked the ride and look forward to the first outdoor ride once we have gotten ride of the snow in Sweden.


----------



## Guymk

I really like the matte finish cfred84. I almost wish that i had gotten matte instead of ud gloss.


----------



## acme54321

I'd like to hear from any heavier riders (200+) that are on these frames. How are they holding up?

I'm around 215 right now and looking at a FM028 to build up as my first road bike. Was around 205 when I was riding trails a 3 or 4 days a week, but I crepped back up to 220 over the last year. I will probably never be under 180 though.

I've been an avid MTBer for over ten years and worked in shops for 5 years until last year, so I know what I'm getting into as far as the build is concern. I really like the looks of these frames and am seriously considering ordering one of these from Deng Fu.


----------



## doggatas

acme54321 said:


> I'd like to hear from any heavier riders (200+) that are on these frames. How are they holding up?
> 
> I'm around 215 right now and looking at a FM028 to build up as my first road bike. Was around 205 when I was riding trails a 3 or 4 days a week, but I crepped back up to 220 over the last year. I will probably never be under 180 though.
> 
> I've been an avid MTBer for over ten years and worked in shops for 5 years until last year, so I know what I'm getting into as far as the build is concern. I really like the looks of these frames and am seriously considering ordering one of these from Deng Fu.


At my heaviest i was 102kg which is roughly 220lb. My fm015 is still going strong.


----------



## asianarnold1

ntb1001 said:


> Ya, I guess my money is gone....
> 
> My frame just showed up at the front door just I was reading all the petty complaining going on around here by small minded people with an outdated business plan. The local auto industry has just had to re-invent itself, albeit with some government help, I don't think that any agency is to worried about some bicycle frames coming into North America labeled as Pinarello's. In this area there are several Chinese malls full of every new movie at the theater available on DVD, and most of them are perfect copies. When the police can't do any thing about these vendors selling brand new movies for $2 each right out in the open, what chance is there for mainland Chinese companies to be affected by the complaints from the several grouches here?
> 
> Here is the latest frame received today....
> 
> The finish is pretty good, and it has a real head tube crest now, not a sticker.


I'm considering this frame and paintjob from greatkeenbike. What was your final cost and shipping? What headset did you get? any other extra advice you can give would be great.


----------



## cfred84

Guymk said:


> I really like the matte finish cfred84. I almost wish that i had gotten matte instead of ud gloss.


Thanks!! Couple of nice matte build-ups in here. Smwad inspired me to do one too!!


----------



## forfun

HI everyone,
so i am a long time reader who hasnt contributed anything yet.. but for everyone who was like me just thinking about it... i bought fm001, fk002, sp003, and hb003. note i have not chopped my fork properly yet i just wanted to make sure i was happy with my setup.

the only issues i had with the build were the typical excess resin on the fork, and getting my head around the neco headset which didnt like tightening properly. other than that, no worries at all.

i have "upgraded" my frame from an orbea alu/carbon. there is absolutely no way i am going back. my peak sprint speed is up 2-3km/h measurably 100% sure not just excitement. i could not be happier. i have an orbea frame for sale now!

so far i have done 600km no issues. i have raced it no problems, and have done 80km/h down a hill. no issues what so ever.

anyone thinking about these things should bite the bullet and buy one.


----------



## flatlander_48

cokex said:


> I wouldn't expect to hear anything till next week ..


That's probably a good guess. The actual celebration time is 15 days, but most folks will go back to work next Monday or Tuesday. In my case, our construction site opens up next Tuesday...


----------



## skygodmatt

*Cheap Motobecane*

I was surfing around just now and found this-
Thought you guys might want to know. 
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-MOTOBECANE-...70570657068?pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item27b6cdad2c

It's a Motobecane full carbon frame and fork for $600 shipped
Made in Taiwan not China 
Looks pretty stiff n the BB area. 
I figure it weighs around 1200 grams

But hey, my 2011 GIant TCR weighs 1250g in a Large -and it's stiff and fast as hell.


----------



## DrFragnasty

Well spotted Matt. 

I'm after a 56cm Chinarello. My eBay seller has lots of 54's won't have 56's for another 90 days. Anyone know where I can get one now ?

Chris.


----------



## Italianrider76

I don't think the Chinarellos are available in any size other than 54cm at the moment, at least the Ebay ones.


----------



## Bacana

But... It says _Bikes Direct_ on it.

But a decent deal if you're looking for something like that.


----------



## DiegoMontoya

So, what do people think of this official "Chinarello"? Looks to me as though Opera just took a standard 12k weave 30HM or whatever Greatkeenbike frame, slapped some Opera stickers on there and, bam, an official bike. Not sure why this is any different from what people are doing for themselves here and cutting out the middleman.


----------



## mrbubbles

Opera is owned by Pinarello.


----------



## ntb1001

DiegoMontoya said:


> So, what do people think of this official "Chinarello"? Looks to me as though Opera just took a standard 12k weave 30HM or whatever Greatkeenbike frame, slapped some Opera stickers on there and, bam, an official bike. Not sure why this is any different from what people are doing for themselves here and cutting out the middleman.



Opera is a secondary line owned and sold by Pinarello.


----------



## flatlander_48

There is mention of counterfeit bikes on the Pinarello web site. Personally, I think they ought to round up a few guys from over in Sicily and go _*"discourage"*_ some folks...


----------



## FTR

flatlander_48 said:


> There is mention of counterfeit bikes on the Pinarello web site. Personally, I think they ought to round up a few guys from over in Sicily and go _*"discourage"*_ some folks...


I have a feeling they may find themselves just slightly outnumbered.


----------



## vladvm

This makes it interesting!


----------



## vladvm

My theory, Opera was the brand where pinarello first used carbon frames as trial period before they officially introduced carbon frame to Pinarello brand as in Prince in 2005. Opera bikes were discontinued in 2006 because of overlap in carbon frame product with owner Pinarello. All Opera frames were made in Asia. Although the brand was discontinued, factories kept making the frames which were sold as naked unbranded ones. It is interesting since the frame weight of opera bikes match that of the Asian unbranded frames. Pinarello used opera frames as stepping stone to reach the current prince, Paris & Dogma. Now in 2011 Pinarello has discontinued the Prince, restarted the Opera bikes and have FakeAlert. My gut tells me that the current naked frames on eBay are the discontinues Prince frames.


----------



## Damienp

Perhaps if they had italian BB shells maybe.

Certainly a possibility that it's the same mould however.

Been reading this thread with interest as I am about to buy my first roadie and heve been real interested to see a few peeps in Australia have them. Trying to convince the wife that this is an essential purchase is my current obsticle.


----------



## cokex

The carbon and red makes me want to buy another bike.. So nice!


----------



## robdamanii

vladvm said:


> My theory, Opera was the brand where pinarello first used carbon frames as trial period before they officially introduced carbon frame to Pinarello brand as in Prince in 2005. Opera bikes were discontinued in 2006 because of overlap in carbon frame product with owner Pinarello. All Opera frames were made in Asia. Although the brand was discontinued, factories kept making the frames which were sold as naked unbranded ones. It is interesting since the frame weight of opera bikes match that of the Asian unbranded frames. Pinarello used opera frames as stepping stone to reach the current prince, Paris & Dogma. Now in 2011 Pinarello has discontinued the Prince, restarted the Opera bikes and have FakeAlert. My gut tells me that the current naked frames on eBay are the discontinues Prince frames.


Your gut is wrong.

English thread BB shell =/= Prince frames. 

Stop spreading lies.


----------



## mrbubbles

robdamanii said:


> Your gut is wrong.
> 
> English thread BB shell =/= Prince frames.
> 
> Stop spreading lies.


To satisfy robdamanii, somebody should order a Chinarello with Italian BB.


----------



## robdamanii

mrbubbles said:


> To satisfy robdamanii, somebody should order a Chinarello with Italian BB.


I'd like to see it.

Fact is, the burden of proof is upon those claiming that "these are actual Pinarello frames." The evidence suggests otherwise, with simple things, such as BB shell threadings, that do not match Pinarello specifications. Until there is some actual evidence to the contrary, these are merely a look-alike frame with no pedigree, no matter how much you want them to be Pinarello frames.


----------



## mrbubbles

robdamanii said:


> I'd like to see it.
> 
> Fact is, the burden of proof is upon those claiming that "these are actual Pinarello frames." The evidence suggests otherwise, with simple things, such as BB shell threadings, that do not match Pinarello specifications. Until there is some actual evidence to the contrary, these are merely a look-alike frame with no pedigree, no matter how much you want them to be Pinarello frames.


BB threads are easy, there's no discernible differences between Italian or English BB. Even if it is English BB, that alone hardly negates the fact that the geometries are identical, along with details like tube sizing, ridges, and headset specification. There's enough evidence to considered that these are oems, no matter how much you want to believe they are fake.


----------



## 4400

*Difference in PInarello vs. Chinarello*



mrbubbles said:


> BB threads are easy, there's no discernible differences between Italian or English BB. Even if it is English BB, that alone hardly negates the fact that the geometries are identical, along with details like tube sizing, ridges, and headset specification. There's enough evidence to considered that these are oems, no matter how much you want to believe they are fake.


I know it doesn't look like much but 68mm is a little different than 71mm when measuring it or puttin a bottom bracket in.


----------



## PlatyPius

vladvm said:


> My theory, Opera was the brand where pinarello first used carbon frames as trial period before they officially introduced carbon frame to Pinarello brand as in Prince in 2005. Opera bikes were discontinued in 2006 because of overlap in carbon frame product with owner Pinarello. All Opera frames were made in Asia. Although the brand was discontinued, factories kept making the frames which were sold as naked unbranded ones. It is interesting since the frame weight of opera bikes match that of the Asian unbranded frames. Pinarello used opera frames as stepping stone to reach the current prince, Paris & Dogma. Now in 2011 Pinarello has discontinued the Prince, restarted the Opera bikes and have FakeAlert. My gut tells me that the current naked frames on eBay are the discontinues Prince frames.


My gut tells me that there's a magickal unicorn farm in China that sits perpetually under a rainbow. There, the unicorns frolic and crap out Chinarello and Pinarello frames every day. They all come from the same unicorns, so they're the same. It's a magickal land indeed.

Anyone who believes their Chinese fake frame is a real Pinarello is, I'm sorry, an idiot.

They try to pretend that they don't, but GreatKeenBike sells the frames with genuine fake Pinarello graphics. Even if they WERE the manufacturer for Pinarello - which they're not - do you really think Pinarello would let them put Pinarello decals/paint jobs on them?

Y'all really need to move out of your fantasy lands.... You own a copy. A really good copy, but still a copy. People who buy the fake Pinarellos (complete with graphics) are just pathetic little men who want to pretend that they own something that they can't afford...the sort who put wheel covers that look like nice wheels on their Corollas and stuff tube socks in their pants.

Want to buy a Chinese "factory-direct" frame? Go right ahead. Most people don't have a problem with that. But don't delude yourself (or others) into thinking you're bought a genuine Pinarello/Orbea/Kuota/etc.


----------



## PlatyPius

mrbubbles said:


> BB threads are easy, there's no discernible differences between Italian or English BB. Even if it is English BB, that alone hardly negates the fact that the geometries are identical, along with details like tube sizing, ridges, and headset specification. There's enough evidence to considered that these are oems, no matter how much you want to believe they are fake.


In my magickal faerie land of unicorns, there's this thing called common sense. How hard do you really think it is to take a real Pinarello frame, make a mould of it, and crank off 10,000 of them? People with common sense realize that it is much more likely (and completely accurate) that this is what is happening.

Oops! Pinarello moved to internal cable routing! Buy a new series for frames (for all sizes) and make moulds of them. That takes a little while, so there might be a delay before those show up. Oh, what's that? There WAS a delay before they went to internal cable routing on the illegal copies? Huh....imagine that.


----------



## vladvm

4400 said:


> I know it doesn't look like much but 68mm is a little different than 71mm when measuring it or puttin a bottom bracket in.



I think there is confusion with the BB. The thread is English, not Italian thread, meaning direction of spin to screw the bearing is different. The width has nothing to do with it since they external bearings are used. Same width/geometry.


----------



## PlatyPius

vladvm said:


> I think there is confusion with the BB. The thread is English, not Italian thread, meaning direction of spin to screw the bearing is different. *The width has nothing to do with it since they external bearings are used. Same width/geometry.*


Incorrect answer.

English bottom bracket shell is 68mm.
Italian bottom bracket width is 70mm.

Who says external bearings are used? You can use whatever you want. Square-taper, ISIS...whichever. English is English and Italian is Italian.


----------



## vladvm

Now come to think of it Pinarello use different carbon fiber modulus but similar mould to differentiate the models. I suggest to those buying the chinarellos to match the frame weight you want because there are also many different chinarellos with different carbon fiber with same mould as pinarello/opera bikes so you can be sure to get the correct OEM frame for the model you want.

i.e. For 54cm 900g ones are prince, 1050g ones are FP7's, 1250g ones Orcas.... Just search eBay and look at description to be sure.

I got the FP7 since mine is 1043g frame.


----------



## mrbubbles

PlatyPius said:


> They try to pretend that they don't, but GreatKeenBike sells the frames with genuine fake Pinarello graphics. Even if they WERE the manufacturer for Pinarello - which they're not - do you really think Pinarello would let them put Pinarello decals/paint jobs on them?


That's not really up to Pinarello to decide, whether or not they can put their paint jobs/decals on them. The factory direct frames offers painting too, it's no brainer to conclude that manufacturers for major brands can also paint. One differentiation in this aspect about your copy theory, we're not seeing oem Scotts, or oem Cervelos, but a few years back an oem Wilier Le Roi was available sans paint from someone who worked/had connections in the factories, so it's not too far fetch to assume these Pinarello are oems as well.


----------



## ColoRoadie

PlatyPius said:


> My gut tells me that there's a magickal unicorn farm in China that sits perpetually under a rainbow. There, the unicorns frolic and crap out Chinarello and Pinarello frames every day. They all come from the same unicorns, so they're the same. It's a magickal land indeed.
> 
> Anyone who believes their Chinese fake frame is a real Pinarello is, I'm sorry, an idiot.
> 
> They try to pretend that they don't, but GreatKeenBike sells the frames with genuine fake Pinarello graphics. Even if they WERE the manufacturer for Pinarello - which they're not - do you really think Pinarello would let them put Pinarello decals/paint jobs on them?
> 
> Y'all really need to move out of your fantasy lands.... You own a copy. A really good copy, but still a copy. People who buy the fake Pinarellos (complete with graphics) are just pathetic little men who want to pretend that they own something that they can't afford...the sort who put wheel covers that look like nice wheels on their Corollas and stuff tube socks in their pants.
> 
> Want to buy a Chinese "factory-direct" frame? Go right ahead. Most people don't have a problem with that. But don't delude yourself (or others) into thinking you're bought a genuine Pinarello/Orbea/Kuota/etc.


Pathetic little men? Does it make you feel like some kind of tough guy to insult people from behind your computer screen? When the guys you are insulting start talking about you....are you going to take that well? Its not like you havent given more than enough personal info here for them to start hurling insults back at you. Is this really the place for this kind of thing? A guy got suspended for telling you off a page or two back and yet here you are doing the same thing.


----------



## fab4

mrbubbles said:


> That's not really up to Pinarello to decide, whether or not they can put their paint jobs/decals on them. The factory direct frames offers painting too, it's no brainer to conclude that manufacturers for major brands can also paint. One differentiation in this aspect about your copy theory, we're not seeing oem Scotts, or oem Cervelos, but a few years back an oem Wilier Le Roi was available sans paint from someone who worked/had connections in the factories, so it's not too far fetch to assume these Pinarello are oems as well.



I asked Jenny from Hongfu once if they can copy a Cervelo R3 design on the FM015 frameset Hongfu is making. She replied back that they can copy the design and put it on the FM015 but will not put any manufacturer's name, e.g., Cervelo, Trek, Cannondale, etc... on their frames. Ended up putting my own "The Beatles" decal.


----------



## MrPerkles

Pinarello stopped building in house after the opera,they now buy from the far east but not greetkeen


----------



## config

PlatyPius said:


> My gut tells me that there's a magickal unicorn farm in China that sits perpetually under a rainbow. There, the unicorns frolic and crap out Chinarello and Pinarello frames every day. They all come from the same unicorns, so they're the same. It's a magickal land indeed.
> 
> Anyone who believes their Chinese fake frame is a real Pinarello is, I'm sorry, an idiot.
> 
> They try to pretend that they don't, but GreatKeenBike sells the frames with genuine fake Pinarello graphics. Even if they WERE the manufacturer for Pinarello - which they're not - do you really think Pinarello would let them put Pinarello decals/paint jobs on them?
> 
> Y'all really need to move out of your fantasy lands.... You own a copy. A really good copy, but still a copy. People who buy the fake Pinarellos (complete with graphics) are just pathetic little men who want to pretend that they own something that they can't afford...the sort who put wheel covers that look like nice wheels on their Corollas and stuff tube socks in their pants.
> 
> Want to buy a Chinese "factory-direct" frame? Go right ahead. Most people don't have a problem with that. But don't delude yourself (or others) into thinking you're bought a genuine Pinarello/Orbea/Kuota/etc.


Let's not go there again, please! This thread had just got back on track.


----------



## Coolhand

*Moderators Note*



config said:


> Let's not go there again, please! This thread had just got back on track.


Agreed- tone it down. The point can me made that the fake Pinarello's are just as obviously fakes as the fake Saxo Bank kits flooding Ebay. But you can do it without the insults. If you can't then maybe its time to step out of these threads. 

------

Mod hat off.

IMHO: Buy/ride your Ebay frame all you want- but putting Pinarello stickers on it is ultra lame. You didn't buy one, you bought a knock-off that sort of looks like one. That's fine- just don't be "that guy" who tries to pass it off. Its like a fake Rolex or hairpiece- tacky. I like what many of the smarter buyers did- make their own custom graphics and paint. :thumbsup:


----------



## ntb1001

Coolhand said:


> Agreed- tone it down. The point can me made that the fake Pinarello's are just as obviously fakes as the fake Saxo Bank kits flooding Ebay. But you can do it without the insults. If you can't then maybe its time to step out of these threads.
> 
> ------
> 
> Mod hat off.
> 
> IMHO: Buy/ride your Ebay frame all you want- but putting Pinarello stickers on it is ultra lame. You didn't buy one, you bought a knock-off that sort of looks like one. That's fine- just don't be "that guy" who tries to pass it off. Its like a fake Rolex or hairpiece- tacky. I like what many of the smarter buyers did- make their own custom graphics and paint. :thumbsup:



Agreed as well. 

I enjoy this thread and the amount of knowledge being passed around, I don't know why someone who obviously does not agree with the whole Chinese carbon frame thing insists on continuing to post his negative opinions in this thread. I don't understand why someone would read the posts and comment regularly when he is not interested in the product that people are purchasing in this forum. 

If it were me,and I was running a fledgling business one utility bill away from bankruptcy, I might look into a small deal with one of the Chinese manufacturers to supply a frame under the store name to sell. You could build it as a complete bike and offer a high quality road bike to someone on a tight budget. There you could actually make a better profit on that than the big name brands and have more exposure for the business name.


----------



## Coolhand

ntb1001 said:


> If it were me,and I was running a fledgling business one utility bill away from bankruptcy, I might look into a small deal with one of the Chinese manufacturers to supply a frame under the store name to sell. You could build it as a complete bike and offer a high quality road bike to someone on a tight budget. There you could actually make a better profit on that than the big name brands and have more exposure for the business name.


No terms, no warranty support or service. No insurance. No compliance with the various legal stickering/reflectors/disclosure requirements. Plus once you factor in parts groups, wheels, shipping, terms ect- it is *very hard* to beat Giant et al on entry level bikes as a dealer. The risks on quality control/legal compliance ect are much different for a business owner selling to the public.


----------



## ntb1001

Coolhand said:


> No terms, no warranty support or service. No insurance. No compliance with the various legal stickering/reflectors/disclosure requirements. Plus once you factor in parts groups, wheels, shipping, terms ect- it is *very hard* to beat Giant et al on entry level bikes as a dealer. The risks on quality control/legal compliance ect are much different for a business owner selling to the public.



I suppose you're right...I was just thinking of some examples I have already seen. I know of a couple guys re branding these frames, and marking them up. Also, there is a store I know of in Toronto that sells their own brand for years, in the past they had Chinese or Russian Ti frames and now it is Chinese carbon but they are painted and decal-ed with their brand. In Canada with the prices being much higher than the States, I think there is more room to make a profit doing this.


----------



## vladvm

ntb1001 said:


> I suppose you're right...I was just thinking of some examples I have already seen. I know of a couple guys re branding these frames, and marking them up. Also, there is a store I know of in Toronto that sells their own brand for years, in the past they had Chinese or Russian Ti frames and now it is Chinese carbon but they are painted and decal-ed with their brand. In Canada with the prices being much higher than the States, I think there is more room to make a profit doing this.


hey i'm in GTA, i walked in Endurosport with my chinarello for fit and they could not believe how much I paid for the frame. They were really impressed with the finish, "steal of the century" (Note: Endurosport at Laird did an ok bike fit but i had to do some minor adjustments myself. They do have 60 days fit warranty so i can come back for major re-adjustments)


----------



## .david.

forfun said:


> HI everyone,
> so i am a long time reader who hasnt contributed anything yet.. but for everyone who was like me just thinking about it... i bought fm001, fk002, sp003, and hb003. note i have not chopped my fork properly yet i just wanted to make sure i was happy with my setup.
> 
> the only issues i had with the build were the typical excess resin on the fork, and getting my head around the neco headset which didnt like tightening properly. other than that, no worries at all.
> 
> i have "upgraded" my frame from an orbea alu/carbon. there is absolutely no way i am going back. my peak sprint speed is up 2-3km/h measurably 100% sure not just excitement. i could not be happier. i have an orbea frame for sale now!
> 
> so far i have done 600km no issues. i have raced it no problems, and have done 80km/h down a hill. no issues what so ever.
> 
> anyone thinking about these things should bite the bullet and buy one.


Looking good! Thanks for the advice... I'm wanting one of these frames, but just haven't brought myself to pulling the trigger.... yet. lol


----------



## vladvm

.david. said:


> Looking good! Thanks for the advice... I'm wanting one of these frames, but just haven't brought myself to pulling the trigger.... yet. lol


Post your concerns here and I'm sure owners can shed light to your questions.

I agree with previous posters, there are resins to be cleaned where the crown race fits into. I did some sanding on the fork crown and on the bottom of the crown race to make it sit flush and have a tight gap between fork and headtube.










I also had the problem with the cable guide not lining up. And I fixed that.


----------



## DiegoMontoya

Well, I am somewhat doubtful that some of these Chinarellos are OEM Pinarellos, but one Taiwanese importer seems to say that.

http://asteriskcycles.wordpress.com/2010/08/29/taiwanese-pinarello-prince-frame/

This is a Taiwanello though. I do agree. Putting "Pinarello" on a fake is lame. If you're a brand-name type of rider, buck up and buy the real thing. If not, why do you care if it says Pinarello or CheezyPoofs on there??



> I saw a Taiwanese Pinarello Prince frame. It’s the same frame as the legendary Prince, but without the same paintjob. These are made in Taiwan at the same factory. I wasn’t impressed with the overall finish of this demo frame, but since the customer can decide on what they want, that makes up for it.


----------



## acme54321

DiegoMontoya said:


> Well, I am somewhat doubtful that some of these Chinarellos are OEM Pinarellos, but one Taiwanese importer seems to say that.
> 
> http://asteriskcycles.wordpress.com/2010/08/29/taiwanese-pinarello-prince-frame/
> 
> This is a Taiwanello though. I do agree. Putting "Pinarello" on a fake is lame. If you're a brand-name type of rider, buck up and buy the real thing. If not, why do you care if it says Pinarello or CheezyPoofs on there??



Interesting site... I wonder how the prices are?


----------



## DiegoMontoya

acme54321 said:


> Interesting site... I wonder how the prices are?


I inquired. We'll see what they say.


----------



## beston

ntb1001 said:


> ... Also, there is a store I know of in Toronto that sells their own brand for years, in the past they had Chinese or Russian Ti frames and now it is Chinese carbon but they are painted and decal-ed with their brand...


Are you referring to Racer Sportif and their house brand Aquila?
http://www.racersportif.com/products_road_aquila.htm

I've visited the Oakville store a few times and do a pretty good job with these bikes. They do price them right up there with other brands / equivalent models too.

There is another company in t.o. called 'vitess'. They sell their bikes at a high premium and I've always wondered if their bike is a re-branded open mould frame. I haven't yet seen a frame that I would call a match to the vitess bikes.


----------



## ms6073

vladvm said:


> I also had the problem with the cable guide not lining up. And I fixed that.


I like the inovation but personally, I would be concerned that the change in the cable line would add additional friction. Not a big deal with Shimano 7800 but this might be an issue with 7900 as the shift action from small to large chainring is already a bit stiff.


----------



## aengbretson

whoops, nevermind, mistake post


----------



## cokex

ms6073 said:


> I like the inovation but personally, I would be concerned that the change in the cable line would add additional friction. Not a big deal with Shimano 7800 but this might be an issue with 7900 as the shift action from small to large chainring is already a bit stiff.


vlavm is riding this bike so I don't see any problems with this .. The only thing I would worry about is the cable burning a hole over time .. But someone posted the correct bracket for this frame.. so it's either mod the one you have or buy the correct one..

-b


----------



## alexb618

Coolhand said:


> IMHO: Buy/ride your Ebay frame all you want- but putting Pinarello stickers on it is ultra lame. You didn't buy one, you bought a knock-off that sort of looks like one. That's fine- just don't be "that guy" who tries to pass it off. Its like a fake Rolex or hairpiece- tacky. I like what many of the smarter buyers did- make their own custom graphics and paint. :thumbsup:


have you ever heard this joke :

Q what's more embarrassing than a fake rolex?
A a real rolex

replace 'rolex' with 'dogma'


----------



## PlatyPius

alexb618 said:


> have you ever heard this joke :
> 
> Q what's more embarrassing than a fake rolex?
> A a real rolex
> 
> replace 'rolex' with 'dogma'


Obviously a 'joke' made up by someone who couldn't afford a real Rolex and is upset about that. 

(FYI: I can't afford a Rolex OR a Pinarello. Even if I were a dealer.)

But the correct answer to the joke is "being seen with it."


----------



## cokex

PlatyPius said:


> Obviously a 'joke' made up by someone who couldn't afford a real Rolex and is upset about that.
> 
> (FYI: I can't afford a Rolex OR a Pinarello. Even if I were a dealer.)
> 
> But the correct answer to the joke is "being seen with it."



Thanks for trying to ruin this thread..


----------



## independentmind

vladvm said:


> hey i'm in GTA, i walked in Endurosport with my chinarello for fit and they could not believe how much I paid for the frame. They were really impressed with the finish, "steal of the century" (Note: Endurosport at Laird did an ok bike fit but i had to do some minor adjustments myself. They do have 60 days fit warranty so i can come back for major re-adjustments)


Hah more Toronto people.

Good to know about Endurosport, I run past them on my longer running routes and was considering popping in for a fit. May I ask how much you paid? I'm also considering Hello Velo on Carlaw

ntb101: Cyclemania on Danforth was selling no name carbon for a while with their ugly stickers posted on them. This was a couple of years ago though, and I haven't gone in there in sometime even though I am in the area (long story, I wont give them any of my money)


----------



## PlatyPius

cokex said:


> Thanks for trying to ruin this thread..


You're welcome.

Thanks for supporting illegal activity.


----------



## providince

PlatyPius said:


> You're welcome.
> 
> Thanks for supporting illegal activity.


You are so funny. Thanks for the laugh. Platy, your anger about others actions and your lack of ability to have your way makes me chuckle. Please keep responding, there is not enough laughter.


----------



## ntb1001

PlatyPius said:


> You're welcome.
> 
> Thanks for supporting illegal activity.



I guess if buying something by our own free will on the open market is illegal activity...I'm all for it.

I don't get why you post here. I've been reading your posts in the lounge and have been kind of hoping you do well. Unfortunately, I have come to realize that you might not be the kind of person to succeed in business based on your posts on how fragile your business is financially. I am astonished on how much information you put out there on your financial situation...believe me it WILL bight you in the a** one day for having it out there. Meanwhile, the reason you participate in this thread is confusing....
Do you want to buy one of these frames?
Have you owned one of theses frames? 
Do you want to sell these frames?
Are you trying to learn anything here about these frames?
Do you know someone who has bought , or is contemplating on buying one of these frames?
I think the answer to all of the above is a NO.
So, again why are you here?
It really makes no sense, and all you are doing is annoying people who are just sharing information with each other, all of you self righteousness and preaching to the people here is not going to stop the companies like Geatkeen and HongFu to stop producing frames. It will also not get any federal agencies to step in to stop them either.
I think I speak for myself and many others when I suggest that you concentrate your time on your business instead of wasting time and focusing your efforts here.
So, if you want to continue doing yourself a disservice to your business, keep it up. In reality, I think you could lay off here and move on somewhere else...unless you might have some actual insight to provide that was not bashing the purchasing decisions of the people here.
I have now bought 4 Chinese carbon frames and have built them up , and I working on my fifth. I have found that most LBS really do not like that people do this as you find out that they are really gouging the consumer. In addition, I have found out that they do not really understand everything they are doing. One example...I've had Campagnolo chains installed in the past at the LBS because I did not have the tool. My son then broke his chain in a race, then I find out that the store does not use a Campagnolo chain tool...they do not even think you have to use one.
I have had a business not succeed due to a changing market so I can empathize, but I don't understand your contempt. 
Just think about how many real bike store owners don't appreciate the info you put out there on wholesale costs and markup. I'm sure that they have a lot of contempt for you.

Go back to the lounge and post about your bike store and selling coffee...unless that makes REAL coffee shop owners mad.

By the way, I own a real Rolex (Explorer 2) and I real Cervelo S2, but I love these Chinese carbon frames!


----------



## config

How 'bout them Steelers eh? But to get back on topic, took my Chinese build bike for a short 30 mile ride and it (still) rides wonderful. Not sure if I'm over 1K miles yet but it's been great. I'm planning on getting another Chinese frame but I may have to hold off for a couple months since a few unexpected expenses hit us. For those thinking about purchasing a frame from one of these vendors, my advise to you is ask a lot of direct and specific questions and be patient. I would stick with the companies folks here have already dealt with.


----------



## boleiro

_Quote:
Originally Posted by config
Dude,
Why all the caps??? I'm not too impressed with the handling of the RFM101. It's too twitchy for my taste. My old bike is much more stable especially descending. Not sure if I have it dialed in properly yet since I'm having headset issues. I'm considering purchasing a brand name headset to see if it fixes my problem (steering is not smooth/buttery)._

config, did you ever end up getting a new headset for your chinarello? I'm planning on doing the RFM101 build and was thinking of bypassing the chinese headset for the FSA Orbit CF33 (campy integrated). but if you found something that definitely works, I'd like to know.

oh yeah, i've got 50 bucks on the steelers. so be sure to do whatever pregame rituals you have.


----------



## config

boleiro said:


> _Quote:
> Originally Posted by config
> Dude,
> Why all the caps??? I'm not too impressed with the handling of the RFM101. It's too twitchy for my taste. My old bike is much more stable especially descending. Not sure if I have it dialed in properly yet since I'm having headset issues. I'm considering purchasing a brand name headset to see if it fixes my problem (steering is not smooth/buttery)._
> 
> config, did you ever end up getting a new headset for your chinarello? I'm planning on doing the RFM101 build and was thinking of bypassing the chinese headset for the FSA Orbit CF33 (campy integrated). but if you found something that definitely works, I'd like to know.
> 
> oh yeah, i've got 50 bucks on the steelers. so be sure to do whatever pregame rituals you have.


boleiro,
Yes, I did. It turned out, we didn't install the headset correctly. It was twitchy because no matter what I did, it was way too tight. I was wondering why I couldn't take both my hands off the handle bar. I took it all apart again and ended up ruining the first headset. Fortunately, I purchased another one when Greatkeen had to send the replacement fork to me. We got it all setup perfect this time and now the ride is smooth like my Italian bike. I'm extremely pleased with it.


----------



## boleiro

good to hear Config. so you like the headset offered by greatkeen? could you tell me what the headset stack rise is? They seem pretty tall.


----------



## doggatas

Who are these companies making the frames for? Surely these factories are not producing frames for us to buy one offs. There is no money in that. 

Lets take the FM015 for example, what bike company is using this frame. The Cube frame looks awfully similar.

Im not trying to start another china/pina argument here but is my FM015 an OEM frame that Cube use to make their "top of the line" Litening Super HPC SL or is it a copy? Either way i dont care but it would be good to know.


----------



## config

boleiro said:


> good to hear Config. so you like the headset offered by greatkeen? could you tell me what the headset stack rise is? They seem pretty tall.


Sorry man, I wouldn't know what to measure. That was part my problem since I didn't know what type headset I really needed plus I'm overseas and have to deal with ordering online. The headset they sold was only $25 but I guess if you know what you're doing, you'd be all right. If anything, you can test it out and compare it to exactly what you would need if you went with a brand name headset. Good luck.


----------



## Tubby1536

doggatas said:


> Who are these companies making the frames for? Surely these factories are not producing frames for us to buy one offs. There is no money in that.
> 
> Lets take the FM015 for example, what bike company is using this frame. The Cube frame looks awfully similar.
> 
> Im not trying to start another china/pina argument here but is my FM015 an OEM frame that Cube use to make their "top of the line" Litening Super HPC SL or is it a copy? Either way i dont care but it would be good to know.


While the Cube bike is very similar. But the geo is different and it uses a press fit BB which the FM015 does not have as an option, plus other small differences. I would not call it an OEM. Other then the Pinrello clones I have not see one that matches a major brand exactly. They certainly take styling cues from some popular models though.

Who do are these being made for? My guess is bike stores that want to sell a house brand, companies like Rossetti, I have seen a few that brand the FM015 as there own and sell them at +100% markup. Bike clubs. Some also distribute them as their own brand, the Gotobike has the Winspace branding for example.


----------



## 5thdisciple

Anyone know anything about these Taiwanese Colnago OEM Lugged frames?

read about it over on the WW forum


----------



## robpar

ntb1001 said:


> I guess if buying something by our own free will on the open market is illegal activity...I'm all for it.
> 
> I don't get why you post here. I've been reading your posts in the lounge and have been kind of hoping you do well. Unfortunately, I have come to realize that you might not be the kind of person to succeed in business based on your posts on how fragile your business is financially. I am astonished on how much information you put out there on your financial situation...believe me it WILL bight you in the a** one day for having it out there. Meanwhile, the reason you participate in this thread is confusing....
> Do you want to buy one of these frames?
> Have you owned one of theses frames?
> Do you want to sell these frames?
> Are you trying to learn anything here about these frames?
> Do you know someone who has bought , or is contemplating on buying one of these frames?
> I think the answer to all of the above is a NO.
> So, again why are you here?
> It really makes no sense, and all you are doing is annoying people who are just sharing information with each other, all of you self righteousness and preaching to the people here is not going to stop the companies like Geatkeen and HongFu to stop producing frames. It will also not get any federal agencies to step in to stop them either.
> I think I speak for myself and many others when I suggest that you concentrate your time on your business instead of wasting time and focusing your efforts here.
> So, if you want to continue doing yourself a disservice to your business, keep it up. In reality, I think you could lay off here and move on somewhere else...unless you might have some actual insight to provide that was not bashing the purchasing decisions of the people here.
> I have now bought 4 Chinese carbon frames and have built them up , and I working on my fifth. I have found that most LBS really do not like that people do this as you find out that they are really gouging the consumer. In addition, I have found out that they do not really understand everything they are doing. One example...I've had Campagnolo chains installed in the past at the LBS because I did not have the tool. My son then broke his chain in a race, then I find out that the store does not use a Campagnolo chain tool...they do not even think you have to use one.
> I have had a business not succeed due to a changing market so I can empathize, but I don't understand your contempt.
> Just think about how many real bike store owners don't appreciate the info you put out there on wholesale costs and markup. I'm sure that they have a lot of contempt for you.
> 
> Go back to the lounge and post about your bike store and selling coffee...unless that makes REAL coffee shop owners mad.
> 
> By the way, I own a real Rolex (Explorer 2) and I real Cervelo S2, but I love these Chinese carbon frames!


I posted somewhere that many people don't realize that "standard LBS" business model is no longer viable. People that continue to do business the "old way" will vanish. When I first bought my "China frame" it was VERY difficult to get information and I took a gamble. I soon realized that we have entered a new age of buying bikes... pick a frame, pick you colors, geo, components and you get a custom bike... I think soon you'll be able to specify the ride characteristics you want, have it made for very little money, eliminate the middle guys and get more value for the money.
I don't know why somebody does not start a business "assembling custom configurations" so that people that can not "build it up" themselves could have access to this delivery chain. I don't doubt that name brands have more "engineering and testing" but after a while, a normal rider can not really benefit from them. I'm fine with "last years technology".
When I first bought mine, everybody told me: "you are nuts" that frame won't last and you'll get hurt... I'v only had one issue with it (related to shimming), which I posted here... I think... Well, I'm happy with my frame and at times I can't tell the difference between my Giant TCR and my Clone...even thought at times I have to say the Giant is better just so that I can feel better about the $$$ I spent.
I wish more "experienced" riders would post or buy these frames...


----------



## tron

5thdisciple said:


> Anyone know anything about these Taiwanese Colnago OEM Lugged frames?
> 
> read about it over on the WW forum



Looks sweet. Know where to purchase one?


----------



## DiegoMontoya

If anyone is wondering, that Taiwanello OEM frame sells for $2,500. Why anyone would pay that is beyond me, but hey, whatever. Almost Prince price without the Italian finish and the Pinarello cachet. 

Yawn.


----------



## stonedead

DiegoMontoya said:


> If anyone is wondering, that Taiwanello OEM frame sells for $2,500. Why anyone would pay that is beyond me, but hey, whatever. Almost Prince price without the Italian finish and the Pinarello cachet.
> 
> Yawn.


I agree. If I had $2500 for a frame, I'd much rather go to a place like IF, Seven, or some other USA builder and get a custom frame built.


----------



## thefutureofamerica

@RobPar - 

Many are doing this... PedalForce, Neo, Ritte... just to name a few. They have different niches, too. PedalForce has a very generic feel to their brand - not too much emphasis on aesthetics, but highly customizable builds. Ritte has bad-ass Flandrian color schemes and sexy girls draped over the bikes on their website. Didn't get my business, but those bikes are hot... and the prices are on par with the big boys.


----------



## tthome

*Yeah I like my SRAM*

This is my 3rd Chinese carbon build. I already own an FM001 and FM015. This one doesn't doesn't have a designated number that I'm aware of but I've seen it here and on ebay before.

If SRAM were to build and sell full bikes I'd buy one but until they do here is my version. All 100% SRAM Rival as my budget won't allow SRAM Red.

UPDATE: All frame decals were made by colin "at "neo-photography.co.uk (email address). Make sure to request cast vinyl when appropriate as it's the only way to go. Rim stickers were made by garryalvis "at" gmail.com.


----------



## thefutureofamerica

*PEZ daily distraction on an FM-015*

Check it:

https://www.pezcyclingnews.com/cgi/...yclingnews.com/photos/babes/babes11/sheri.jpg

Nice paint scheme there.


----------



## fab4

thefutureofamerica said:


> Check it:
> 
> https://www.pezcyclingnews.com/cgi/...yclingnews.com/photos/babes/babes11/sheri.jpg
> 
> Nice paint scheme there.


If I look really hard, I could actually see the FM015 in that picture.


----------



## Cycling for Cancer

fab4 said:


> If I look really hard, I could actually see the FM015 in that picture.


Bike? What bike? I was looking really hard, didn't see any bike...


----------



## Guymk

Actually I think its a really small fm028, look at the seat stays.


----------



## robpar

fab4 said:


> If I look really hard, I could actually see the FM015 in that picture.


Fm028...


----------



## thefutureofamerica

*Stem/headset question - system six one five*

My murdered-out FM-015 is almost complete, but I'm still using a loaner stem from the shop that fit me on it. They've got a couple of NOS system six stems in the shop that could be had for cheap, and I think the chunky carbon would look good on this bike. 

However, the base of that stem is massive (for the 1.5" top bearing on the system six bike). If I could find a headset top assemblythat didn't taper down so much to meet the 1.125" steerer, then I think it could work better. 

Thoughts?


----------



## boleiro

check out team katusha's new ride for 2011... fm015ish? differences I'm seeing right off are the down tube internal routing and the ridge detail on the head tube. more interesting, the geometry seems to be right there with the fm015. Like the paint, something different from the usual.

http://www.bicycling.co.za/slideshows/2011-pro-cycling-teams-0?page=5


----------



## athletic91

Ive spotted several new models over at alibaba..Have anyone bought any of these new frames?

Besides the daliy dose of seeing fm015,fm028,kredo clones,chinarellos here,


----------



## robdamanii

boleiro said:


> check out team katusha's new ride for 2011... fm015ish? differences I'm seeing right off are the down tube internal routing and the ridge detail on the head tube. more interesting, the geometry seems to be right there with the fm015. Like the paint, something different from the usual.
> 
> http://www.bicycling.co.za/slideshows/2011-pro-cycling-teams-0?page=5


Do you really think that a ProTour team will buy these things, paint them up and ride them?

You DO realize that Focus is a well know bike company, right?


----------



## boleiro

yeah, Rob, I do realize that. as so, I did point out the obvious differences. Notice the claim that it was fm015ish. notice the "ish" guy. My main point was the similar geometry as a lot of detractors of these frames have pointed out that the chinese frames are short.

you'll jump on anything.


----------



## robdamanii

boleiro said:


> yeah, Rob, I do realize that. as so, I did point out the obvious differences. Notice the claim that it was fm015ish. notice the "ish" guy. My main point was the similar geometry as a lot of detractors of these frames have pointed out that the chinese frames are short.
> 
> you'll jump on anything.


Usually implying something is "ish" is meaning that "maybe this is the same thing."

I misread your intention, so for that I apologize.


----------



## boleiro

no worries Rob, I checked out your blog, keep that up. I like that.


----------



## Purt

tthome said:


> This is my 3rd Chinese carbon build. I already own an FM001 and FM015. This one doesn't doesn't have a designated number that I'm aware of but I've seen it here and on ebay before.
> 
> If SRAM were to build and sell full bikes I'd buy one but until they do here is my version. All 100% SRAM Rival as my budget won't allow SRAM Red.


That is sweet. Although abit to much for me.


----------



## PeteMadog

Spursrider said:


> I received mine recently. Frame & fork in UDM finish. I bought the integrated handlebar and seatpost as well but both were only available in 3K finish.
> 
> Currently sourcing for components to build it up.


Any progress on this one? I was looking at buying the same frame and integrated bars. How stiff are the bars? They look pretty cool


----------



## tthome

Purt said:


> That is sweet. Although abit to much for me.


How about this one in terms of no flash/flair. My stealth FM015. I've nicknamed it my SR71 (original I know). Seen one you've seen em all I guess. All black. Great thing is that I have the choice of which bike to pull off the wall. The SRAM FM???, The all black FM015 or the LiveSTRONG FM001. I also can pull down 1 of my other 2 name brands. Each bike has it's pupose, climbing, speed, or long rides atleast that's how I justify all the bikes to my wifey.


----------



## persondude27

Great looking bike, tthome. I'm building something very similar to that - 'cept I decided to go SRAM For the parts because the crankset looks better.  What wheelset is that?

Has anyone had any success buying what gotobike calls the FM727? Hongfu sells it as their Speedflash SLR-6 (http://www.e-hongfu-bikes.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=83&products_id=206), and gotobike lists it here:
http://www.gotobike.com.cn/gs_detail.asp?id=501192&nowmenuid=500006&previd=500027

Do we know of anyone else who sells it?


----------



## DiegoMontoya

persondude27 said:


> Great looking bike, tthome. I'm building something very similar to that - 'cept I decided to go SRAM For the parts because the crankset looks better.  What wheelset is that?
> 
> Has anyone had any success buying what gotobike calls the FM727? Hongfu sells it as their Speedflash SLR-6 (http://www.e-hongfu-bikes.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=83&products_id=206), and gotobike lists it here:
> http://www.gotobike.com.cn/gs_detail.asp?id=501192&nowmenuid=500006&previd=500027
> 
> Do we know of anyone else who sells it?


Looks like the FM-015 to me.


----------



## tthome

persondude27 said:


> Great looking bike, tthome. I'm building something very similar to that - 'cept I decided to go SRAM For the parts because the crankset looks better.  What wheelset is that?


Your SRAM bike might look something like this minus stickers. I used a new set of rims that I bought for $40 from Cane Creek. They were the hoops used on the Cane Creek Crono 33's. I had them built up locally. Total cost with hubs, hoops and assembly was shy of $300.









The FM015 (no stickers) a few posts higher has a standard Neuvation R28 SL wheelset.


----------



## cokex

ntb1001 said:


> I guess if buying something by our own free will on the open market is illegal activity...I'm all for it.
> 
> I don't get why you post here. I've been reading your posts in the lounge and have been kind of hoping you do well. Unfortunately, I have come to realize that you might not be the kind of person to succeed in business based on your posts on how fragile your business is financially. I am astonished on how much information you put out there on your financial situation...believe me it WILL bight you in the a** one day for having it out there. Meanwhile, the reason you participate in this thread is confusing....
> Do you want to buy one of these frames?
> Have you owned one of theses frames?
> Do you want to sell these frames?
> Are you trying to learn anything here about these frames?
> Do you know someone who has bought , or is contemplating on buying one of these frames?
> I think the answer to all of the above is a NO.
> So, again why are you here?
> It really makes no sense, and all you are doing is annoying people who are just sharing information with each other, all of you self righteousness and preaching to the people here is not going to stop the companies like Geatkeen and HongFu to stop producing frames. It will also not get any federal agencies to step in to stop them either.
> I think I speak for myself and many others when I suggest that you concentrate your time on your business instead of wasting time and focusing your efforts here.
> So, if you want to continue doing yourself a disservice to your business, keep it up. In reality, I think you could lay off here and move on somewhere else...unless you might have some actual insight to provide that was not bashing the purchasing decisions of the people here.
> I have now bought 4 Chinese carbon frames and have built them up , and I working on my fifth. I have found that most LBS really do not like that people do this as you find out that they are really gouging the consumer. In addition, I have found out that they do not really understand everything they are doing. One example...I've had Campagnolo chains installed in the past at the LBS because I did not have the tool. My son then broke his chain in a race, then I find out that the store does not use a Campagnolo chain tool...they do not even think you have to use one.
> I have had a business not succeed due to a changing market so I can empathize, but I don't understand your contempt.
> Just think about how many real bike store owners don't appreciate the info you put out there on wholesale costs and markup. I'm sure that they have a lot of contempt for you.
> 
> Go back to the lounge and post about your bike store and selling coffee...unless that makes REAL coffee shop owners mad.
> 
> By the way, I own a real Rolex (Explorer 2) and I real Cervelo S2, but I love these Chinese carbon frames!



Exactly what I would've said if I wasn't crabbing this weekend .. Thanks!

I've been doing my reading/research on this guy also, even before he started up in these posts, and I could tell he was angry about everything it seemed. I figured I give him some respect since he owned a bike shop, was a "veteran" of this site .. but I regret it .. True colors really do show over time .. 

My theory is .. He was a cyclist, but now bike shop owner, which took the cyclist out of him and turned him into a bitter business man who has a bike shop that's not doing so great, and he is trying to take it out on people who don't give him money.. Maybe if he went back to his roots, back into being a true cyclist he can find peace and harmony.. heh

I mainly got my bike to forget about the day, relax and just enjoy being on a bike.. going anywhere as fast as possible, not stuck behind a wheel and pushing the gas to go. Freedom!

I think if everyone just let him post and nobody responded, he'll go away .. His goal of trying to lock these threads will stop and he'll know nobody cares what he has to say.

-b


----------



## Tubby1536

persondude27 said:


> Great looking bike, tthome. I'm building something very similar to that - 'cept I decided to go SRAM For the parts because the crankset looks better.  What wheelset is that?
> 
> Has anyone had any success buying what gotobike calls the FM727? Hongfu sells it as their Speedflash SLR-6 (http://www.e-hongfu-bikes.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=83&products_id=206), and gotobike lists it here:
> http://www.gotobike.com.cn/gs_detail.asp?id=501192&nowmenuid=500006&previd=500027
> 
> Do we know of anyone else who sells it?


The Hong fu bike you linked is the FM015. It is not the same as the FM727. FM727 has different geo and internal routing. From what I have seen nobody else sells the same frames as gotobike. And I have not seen any builds with the FM727 yet.


----------



## ntb1001

I have been asked for some more pictures of both sides of the latest Chinarello Dogma...


----------



## mrbubbles

They got it almost perfect, except the Dogma on the non-drive side seat tube should be Pinarello, not Dogma. But overall, pretty good.


----------



## Vee

ntb1001 said:


> I have been asked for some more pictures of both sides of the latest Chinarello Dogma...


Total price out the door? Where did you order it? Looks nice. Thanks for the pictures.


----------



## PlatyPius

cokex said:


> Exactly what I would've said if I wasn't crabbing this weekend .. Thanks!
> 
> I've been doing my reading/research on this guy also, even before he started up in these posts, and I could tell he was angry about everything it seemed. I figured I give him some respect since he owned a bike shop, was a "veteran" of this site .. but I regret it .. True colors really do show over time ..
> 
> My theory is .. He was a cyclist, but now bike shop owner, which took the cyclist out of him and turned him into a bitter business man who has a bike shop that's not doing so great, and he is trying to take it out on people who don't give him money.. Maybe if he went back to his roots, back into being a true cyclist he can find peace and harmony.. heh
> 
> I mainly got my bike to forget about the day, relax and just enjoy being on a bike.. going anywhere as fast as possible, not stuck behind a wheel and pushing the gas to go. Freedom!
> 
> I think if everyone just let him post and nobody responded, he'll go away .. His goal of trying to lock these threads will stop and he'll know nobody cares what he has to say.
> 
> -b


You're wrong on almost all counts.

Your plan of not replying is a good one. I told everyone elsewhere that I was done with this thread. But then, you broke your own rule and started talking sh!+ about me. Thereby bringing me back to this thread. Good job, Sport.

You want to keep me out of this thread?
1) Keep your damn mouth shut about me or my shop (which has nothing at all to do with any of this.)

2) Don't post stupid crap. ie: don't say that these fakes ARE Pinarellos, because they aren't. That is my only concern in this thread - stopping disinformation. If someone who doesn't know better comes in here, sees these "Pinarellos" and buys one, then rides it and it breaks - he's going to talk crap about Pinarello and how crappy their bikes are. That hurts Pinarello, who is an innocent victim in all of this. That hurts the bike industry in general.


----------



## cokex

PlatyPius said:


> You're wrong on almost all counts.
> 
> Your plan of not replying is a good one. I told everyone elsewhere that I was done with this thread. But then, you broke your own rule and started talking sh!+ about me. Thereby bringing me back to this thread. Good job, Sport.
> 
> You want to keep me out of this thread?
> 1) Keep your damn mouth shut about me or my shop (which has nothing at all to do with any of this.)
> 
> 2) Don't post stupid crap. ie: don't say that these fakes ARE Pinarellos, because they aren't. That is my only concern in this thread - stopping disinformation. If someone who doesn't know better comes in here, sees these "Pinarellos" and buys one, then rides it and it breaks - he's going to talk crap about Pinarello and how crappy their bikes are. That hurts Pinarello, who is an innocent victim in all of this. That hurts the bike industry in general.


was just a Theory .. my bad.. 

and haha.. sorry you are too funny .. 

-b


----------



## LandShark'n

ntb1001 said:


> I have been asked for some more pictures of both sides of the latest Chinarello Dogma...


Wow. I don't know Pinarello enough to readily discern this as a fake, but what would one gain from having a knock-off counterfeit bike? I have no problem with the Chinese-made bikes that are shaped like the real things, but once it goes so far as to be represented as something it's not, that rubs me the wrong way.

Personally, I'd ride one of these knock-offs if I could be assured it passed stringent testing and I felt relatively certain that it would cause me to faceplant on the asphalt at 40mph, but I would not ride a bike while pretending it to be something it's not. I mean really...what do you do at a group ride when someone compliments your bike? How often do you have to say "Thanks, but it's a fake..."? Or do you say anything at all?


----------



## cokex

LandShark'n said:


> Wow. I don't know Pinarello enough to readily discern this as a fake, but what would one gain from having a knock-off counterfeit bike? I have no problem with the Chinese-made bikes that are shaped like the real things, but once it goes so far as to be represented as something it's not, that rubs me the wrong way.
> 
> Personally, I'd ride one of these knock-offs if I could be assured it passed stringent testing and I felt relatively certain that it would cause me to faceplant on the asphalt at 40mph, but I would not ride a bike while pretending it to be something it's not. I mean really...what do you do at a group ride when someone compliments your bike? How often do you have to say "Thanks, but it's a fake..."? Or do you say anything at all?



I'm sure some will and some won't say its fake or not .. but that really is besides the point.. the wording on the bike doesn't change how it rides or looks or is shaped.. It's still a "copy" since it's not from a Pinarello dealer.

The point of this tread is "cheap chinese carbon bikes" .. whatever it says is up to the rider.. These people wouldn't have a problem if it said "Colagno" on it, even though it looks like a "Pinarello". Even I'd poke fun, but I want to poke fun at the carbon "SRAM" bike.. just too much billboard going on there.. 

I don't have a chinarello, but another one with the actual paint.. I do kinda wish i got all carbon, but too late. 

They could be real or could be fake .. we don't actually know yet. I'm still leaning towards "fake" "OEM" since they come from Taiwan/China. Which is where carbon bikes are made for Pinarello .. 

-b


----------



## mrbubbles

PlatyPius said:


> That is my only concern in this thread - stopping disinformation. If someone who doesn't know better comes in here, sees these "Pinarellos" and buys one, then rides it and it breaks - he's going to talk crap about Pinarello and how crappy their bikes are. That hurts Pinarello, who is an innocent victim in all of this. That hurts the bike industry in general.


Why do that when you can buy a "real" Pinarello, ride it, and it breaks. 

http://www.bustedcarbon.com/2009/02/pinarello-f413.html


----------



## neilh

tthome said:


> How about this one in terms of no flash/flair. My stealth FM015. I've nicknamed it my SR71 (original I know). Seen one you've seen em all I guess. All black. Great thing is that I have the choice of which bike to pull off the wall. The SRAM FM???, The all black FM015 or the LiveSTRONG FM001. I also can pull down 1 of my other 2 name brands. Each bike has it's pupose, climbing, speed, or long rides atleast that's how I justify all the bikes to my wifey.


Can you let us know which one you use for which type of riding?

Thanks.


----------



## ntb1001

PlatyPius said:


> You're wrong on almost all counts.
> 
> Your plan of not replying is a good one. I told everyone elsewhere that I was done with this thread. But then, you broke your own rule and started talking sh!+ about me. Thereby bringing me back to this thread. Good job, Sport.
> 
> You want to keep me out of this thread?
> 1) Keep your damn mouth shut about me or my shop (which has nothing at all to do with any of this.)
> 
> 2) Don't post stupid crap. ie: don't say that these fakes ARE Pinarellos, because they aren't. That is my only concern in this thread - stopping disinformation. If someone who doesn't know better comes in here, sees these "Pinarellos" and buys one, then rides it and it breaks - he's going to talk crap about Pinarello and how crappy their bikes are. That hurts Pinarello, who is an innocent victim in all of this. That hurts the bike industry in general.



I wish I had a LBS nearby that the owner had nothing better to do than rant on a forum. I bet you could good deals at his bankruptcy sale. 
Isn't it great to have someone watching out for everyone's safety as well? I'll also bet that Mr. Pinarello is sleeping better at night knowing that a small time suedo bike shop owner and coffee barista is taking up the cause and maintaining Pinarello's image and the entire bike industry at large. 
wow...there sure is a lot of anger in there.


----------



## PlatyPius

ntb1001 said:


> I wish I had a LBS nearby that the owner had nothing better to do than rant on a forum. I bet you could good deals at his bankruptcy sale.
> Isn't it great to have someone watching out for everyone's safety as well? I'll also bet that Mr. Pinarello is sleeping better at night knowing that a small time suedo bike shop owner and coffee barista is taking up the cause and maintaining Pinarello's image and the entire bike industry at large.
> *wow...there sure is a lot of anger in there.*


Yes, there obviously is if you felt the need to respond to this. It seems y'all don't WANT me to stay out of this thread. You keep attacking ME and my shop instead of what I'm saying. Interesting.


----------



## fab4

mrbubbles said:


> Why do that when you can buy a "real" Pinarello, ride it, and it breaks.
> 
> http://www.bustedcarbon.com/2009/02/pinarello-f413.html


I sure hope that that broken Pinarello rider escaped serious injuries.


----------



## Coolhand

*Moderators Note*



ntb1001 said:


> I wish I had a LBS nearby that the owner had nothing better to do than rant on a forum. I bet you could good deals at his bankruptcy sale.
> Isn't it great to have someone watching out for everyone's safety as well? I'll also bet that Mr. Pinarello is sleeping better at night knowing that a small time suedo bike shop owner and coffee barista is taking up the cause and maintaining Pinarello's image and the entire bike industry at large.
> wow...there sure is a lot of anger in there.


My point on personal attacks seems to have been ignored, hopefully your posting vacation will help jog everyone's memories. Don't do it. Dont like a poster- add him to your ignore list.

Long posting vacations will be the norm for this. Keep the posts about the bikes, frame and vendors, which is what it is intended for.


----------



## tthome

neilh said:


> Can you let us know which one you use for which type of riding?


Honestly they all ride about the same to me. The only thing I change is the gearing depending on what I do with the bike. I have compact cranks on all my bikes simply because I'm not a gear masher, I'm working on spinning at higher cadence and saving my knees. I do run different cassettes on each bike and they vary from 11-23 to 12-27. I just don't want to have to mess with pulling off wheels, changing cassettes for different rides or having spare wheels laying all over. Around my area having a 12-27 vs a 11-23 even with a compact can make the difference between an enjoyable ride and a very hard ride. I ride some difficult climbing terrain and the bike with the 12-27 cassette is the one that goes. The ride with the rolling hills gets the 11-23. So to answer your question, I'm fortunate enough to have bikes with different gearing based on the ride that day. My FM001 is probably my most relaxed bike simply because I have a little more headset spacers installed so I sit up just a bit more. My FM0015 is a little more aggressive as I have less headset spacers and I tend to feel a bit more stretched out and aero.


----------



## ColoRoadie

Coolhand, I find it interesting that Platy can insult people, call posters pathetic little men and do his best to disrupt this thread with nothing more than a vague lets keep this on track warning. Yet those responding to him after his pages and pages of insults get a vacation. 

Most of Platy's posts are attacking people who posted their bike purchases in here because he doesn't agree with them. I'm not saying I agree with the clones either, but its not my business so I'm not attacking anyone over their decision. He should not be allowed to do so either and those who respond to his insults should be treated with the same set of rules that he is. Platy has nothing to contribute to this thread and isn't trying to. He and a couple of others are doing nothing more than attempting to get the thread locked or bind it up with so much garbage that reading it is too difficult to bother with. I went back no more than 2 pages or so and the below is the grand sum of what Platy is contributing...go further back and you find more of the same. Please tell us what ntb1001 said that deserved a suspension while the below does not. The reason I ask is I could very easily see myself typing the exact same thing in response to what Platy said and I don't want to get suspended for it. Did you see the post that ntb1001 was responding to? It was quoted above his post and was more insulting than his response....respectfully and IMHO of course.



PlatyPius said:


> Anyone who believes their Chinese fake frame is a real Pinarello is, I'm sorry, an idiot.
> 
> People who buy the fake Pinarellos (complete with graphics) are just pathetic little men who want to pretend that they own something that they can't afford...the sort who put wheel covers that look like nice wheels on their Corollas and stuff tube socks in their pants.





PlatyPius said:


> You want to keep me out of this thread?
> 1) Keep your damn mouth shut about me or my shop


----------



## fab4

ColoRoadie said:


> Coolhand, I find it interesting that Platy can insult people, call posters pathetic little men and do his best to disrupt this thread with nothing more than a vague lets keep this on track warning. Yet those responding to him after his pages and pages of insults get a vacation. If I pay to advertise on this site will I be allowed to say and do pretty much anything I desire as well?
> 
> Most of Platy's posts are attacking people who posted their bike purchases in here because he doesn't agree with them. I'm not saying I agree with the clones either, but its not my business so I'm not attacking anyone over their decision. He should not be allowed to either and those who respond to his insults should be treated with the same set of rules that he is. Platy has nothing to contribute to this thread and isn't trying to. He and a couple of others are doing nothing more than attempting to get the thread locked or bind it up with so much garbage that reading it is too difficult to bother with. I went back no more than 2 pages or so and the below is the grand sum of what Platy is contributing...go further back and you find more of the same. Please tell us what ntb101 said that deserved a suspension while the below does not. Did you see the post that ntb101 was responding to? It was quoted above his post.



Have to agree with ColoRodie on this one.


----------



## bevo21

Same for me, Platy seems to have more credits, though nothing he put in the thread has anything to do with it. Please Coolhand, ban him to, he is boring.

On topic; I rode my FM 028 today for almost 60 km. Feels good, compared with my wives bike (alu Red Bull pro SL from Rose Versand) more sensitive in the steering. More a racy type, in my opinion, but very comfortable.


----------



## tthome

If I can play peacemaker about all the posts about fake this and fake that that is starting to ruin this thread. Please move it out, all of you or simply create another thread to debate your differences. Keep this thread on point. I think we all agree that Chinarellos painted like a Pinerellos are fake Pinerellos and if they are sold as fakes that's counterfitting period, but I also agree that if you can get a great frame at a fraction of the price that gives you the ride of one of these name brands then that's why we're here. We're not here to profit by forgeries but to stretch our dollar and get a comparable bike for less. If someone wants to make their Chinarello look like something it's not they have to deal with it when asked, hopefully they're not posers and not misleading people should they sell them. When people ask me about my LiveSTRONG FM001, FM015 or SRAM build I tell em straight that these were purchased directly from China. In fact many want to know if they can get one too. Most of my riding circle already know about these frames so it's not big news. Also, the local bike shops and their mechanics also are interested in these frame as they've helped me when I get stuck. Many have even seen mine and commented about the possibility of buidling their own house brands to add to their current line up. Bottom line, if you buy name brand you're paying to get local service, a warranty and someone to contact should you have problems, with these chinese frames you don't get that piece of mind and you are also not paying for the warranty or local service. C'mon guys...please move your arguments and insults along for the good of the readers here. Moderators, please put the kabosh on this if you can. Let's act like adults. If you can't say something nice then just don't say anything at all. Here is an idea, create a thread called "Chinese Carbon Frames and how they might hurt the LBS owner" There you go, your own place to debate your differences. I've been a member here for 3 years and have never seen this kind of junk in a thread.


----------



## vladvm

Final piece of the puzzle arrive, the cranks!
Video on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I_gz6Qwmws


----------



## boleiro

NEW RULE:

absolutely no responding to platy's posts. for all those that bait and goad Platy, grow up. you're not going to change his opinion and all you're doing is ruining the thread for everyone. Leave him alone. 

Platy, grow up. Quit taking the bait. You've made your point abundantly clear. Do everyone and yourself a favor and please stay clear of this thread.


----------



## cokex

boleiro said:


> NEW RULE:
> 
> absolutely no responding to platy's posts. for all those that bait and goad Platy, grow up. you're not going to change his opinion and all you're doing is ruining the thread for everyone. Leave him alone.
> 
> Platy, grow up. Quit taking the bait. You've made your point abundantly clear. Do everyone and yourself a favor and please stay clear of this thread.


+1 .. agreed.


----------



## Cinelli 82220

fab4 said:


> Have to agree with ColoRodie on this one.


I agree as well. Platy is now on ignore.


----------



## zender

Done and done.


----------



## paterberg

Yippppeeeeeeee!!!!!!


----------



## Tri4fun73

Cokex,
Have you built Up that badboy 106 yet? I have noticed great keen has scrubbed out the Mendiz logo on their site. I haven't found a 106 built up yet and wanna see a pic before I pull the trigger.
Thread back on track, love it!


----------



## cokex

Tri4fun73 said:


> Cokex,
> Have you built Up that badboy 106 yet? I have noticed great keen has scrubbed out the Mendiz logo on their site. I haven't found a 106 built up yet and wanna see a pic before I pull the trigger.
> Thread back on track, love it!


It's all together .. but I had a problem with the bars, it cracked during the install. So I'm working on warranty from Greatkeen, I'm in no hurry other than my own so I told them lets deal with this after the New Year has calmed down .. 

here is a pic.. haven't rode it yet because I like having teeth, and tube is not cut because I still need to get fitted at the LBS .. 










-b


----------



## Coolhand

Like the color scheme. :thumbsup:


----------



## Tri4fun73

cokex said:


> It's all together .. but I had a problem with the bars, it cracked during the install. So I'm working on warranty from Greatkeen, I'm in no hurry other than my own so I told them lets deal with this after the New Year has calmed down ..
> 
> here is a pic.. haven't rode it yet because I like having teeth, and tube is not cut because I still need to get fitted at the LBS ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -b


That thing is sweet! Are the wheels Chinese direct too?


----------



## sand101

Tri4fun73 said:


> That thing is sweet! Are the wheels Chinese direct too?


Agreed - love the look of that frame. Let us know how it rides. Any issues putting it together, or was it pretty straightforward? Did you ask for a particular outer weave? I'd lean toward getting a 3k weave if they offered it.


----------



## Spursrider

PeteMadog said:


> Any progress on this one? I was looking at buying the same frame and integrated bars. How stiff are the bars? They look pretty cool


Still waiting for some parts to arrive. I'm building it with a mix of SRAM components from eBay.


----------



## fab4

cokex said:


> It's all together .. but I had a problem with the bars, it cracked during the install. So I'm working on warranty from Greatkeen, I'm in no hurry other than my own so I told them lets deal with this after the New Year has calmed down ..
> 
> here is a pic.. haven't rode it yet because I like having teeth, and tube is not cut because I still need to get fitted at the LBS ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -b


Great looking bike. Tell us how it rides when you do ride it.


----------



## PlatyPius

Coolhand said:


> Like the color scheme. :thumbsup:


I agree.... it IS a great-looking bike.


----------



## Sebastionmerckx

cokex said:


> It's all together .. but I had a problem with the bars, it cracked during the install. So I'm working on warranty from Greatkeen, I'm in no hurry other than my own so I told them lets deal with this after the New Year has calmed down ..
> 
> here is a pic.. haven't rode it yet because I like having teeth, and tube is not cut because I still need to get fitted at the LBS ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -b


I am very impressed with the look:thumbsup:


----------



## flatlander_48

mrbubbles said:


> Why do that when you can buy a *"real" Pinarello*, ride it, and it breaks.
> 
> http://www.bustedcarbon.com/2009/02/pinarello-f413.html


With all of the discussion here about what's counterfiet and what's not, how can you be sure by just looking at a photo?


----------



## Italianrider76

flatlander_48 said:


> With all of the discussion here about what's counterfiet and what's not, how can you be sure by just looking at a photo?


There was a very long thread about this very incident where from what I can remember this Brazilian gentleman was racing and diverted onto some grass in order to avoid a crash up ahead. Next thing you know, he went over the handlebars and the bike bas broken.


----------



## flatlander_48

And everyone was satisfied that it was a genuine Pinarello?


----------



## Coolhand

*Moderators Note*

There is a thread for the counterfeit discussion below- please keep this thread on point.


----------



## flatlander_48

It was a yes or no question. I'm not interested in the details.


----------



## cokex

KlubCycle said:


> Cokex - That bike looks awesome, very nice. You mention tht the bars cracked during install. Was that from overtightening or perhaps something else? Interested to know tyhe cause and how GK handles it. Thanks.


I haven't had much time lately to put a bike together so I kinda wussed out and had a LBS put it together, but now I have a great LBS to go to if I have any issues.

They cracked the bars while tightening the last bolt, they say they didn't do anything wrong, and torqued it correctly.. so I'm just taking their word for it. GK has agreed to warranty the bars, but I'm trying to find out now if they want me to send this one back. Should have an answer soon as the New Years is over with.

The bike shop said it went together without any issues, and they all liked the bike a lot, especially the Chinese carbon wheels.. 

Yes, I did say it was a copy .. 

Only thing I would change is the paint, I really like the way it is, but all carbon would've been nice too..

-b


----------



## providince

cokex said:


> I haven't had much time lately to put a bike together so I kinda wussed out and had a LBS put it together, but now I have a great LBS to go to if I have any issues.
> 
> They cracked the bars while tightening the last bolt, they say they didn't do anything wrong, and torqued it correctly.. so I'm just taking their word for it. GK has agreed to warranty the bars, but I'm trying to find out now if they want me to send this one back. Should have an answer soon as the New Years is over with.
> 
> The bike shop said it went together without any issues, and they all liked the bike a lot, especially the Chinese carbon wheels..
> 
> Yes, I did say it was a copy ..
> 
> Only thing I would change is the paint, I really like the way it is, but all carbon would've been nice too..
> 
> -b



Have you heard back from GreatKeen recently. I sent them the request for a quote for an order and have not heard back. I know they have had their new year but still nothing. Has anyone heard from them this week? That is the only thing that makes me kind of hesitant.


----------



## MX304

providince said:


> Have you heard back from GreatKeen recently. I sent them the request for a quote for an order and have not heard back. I know they have had their new year but still nothing. Has anyone heard from them this week? That is the only thing that makes me kind of hesitant.


It's Chinese New Year there. The whole country shuts down for the most part. You won't hear from them until the holiday is over.


----------



## Tubby1536

MX304 said:


> It's Chinese New Year there. The whole country shuts down for the most part. You won't hear from them until the holiday is over.


They have a note on their site saying they will not responde until after the 12th. In other words, not until next week.


----------



## providince

Gotcha, my bad. Thought it was this monday they were back. Thanks all.


----------



## cokex

providince said:


> Have you heard back from GreatKeen recently. I sent them the request for a quote for an order and have not heard back. I know they have had their new year but still nothing. Has anyone heard from them this week? That is the only thing that makes me kind of hesitant.


I spoke with them a lot before Feb. 2nd, and they agreed to warranty the bars, and since it was Chinese New years, and I was in no hurry, I said lets talk about this after the New Years, I'd rather not get frustrated from the delay the celebration would cause .. 

I'm a very patient person so I don't have any problems waiting .. China's celebration means a lot more than me riding a bike. It's year of the rabbit, which I am and I celebrated.. 

I was going to wait to post all this info, and about the warranty process.. so I'll update once I get more info.. I'd rather say it all at once rather than post after post after post..

My JoeBlow pump came in from Amazon yesterday(saved $30 bucks or so) so I pumped the tires up and road around in the parking garage.. all I can say is ear to ear smiles!

I did a lot of research/foot work and visited a bunch of LBS, and I got to test ride a few bikes .. a 4k Bianchi, Cannondale, 6k Trek, and a few others and this bike felt way more sturdy, but they all kinda felt the same. 

This thing is so light.. my lady friend went to move it and was all 'wth.. this is lighter than my purse(which is real.. heh)'

I kinda feel bad for the LBS's cause everything is cheaper online.. I did drop 1k for assembly, bike fit, tubular tires/installation, etc .. which is for their professional services, which I had no problem paying. I don't mind paying professionals to do what they do best, but paying for crazy markup, I have a say in that.

I'll be going back to finish my fit once I get my new bars..


-b


----------



## indrek

Can anyone tell me the exact diameter of FM028 integrated seatpost? I have ordered the frame but I want to make my own seat clamp with zero setback. The frame will arrive in 2 weeks, but I would like to start with the clamp.


----------



## vladvm

cokex said:


> I spoke with them a lot before Feb. 2nd, and they agreed to warranty the bars, and since it was Chinese New years, and I was in no hurry, I said lets talk about this after the New Years, I'd rather not get frustrated from the delay the celebration would cause ..
> 
> I'm a very patient person so I don't have any problems waiting .. China's celebration means a lot more than me riding a bike. It's year of the rabbit, which I am and I celebrated..
> 
> I was going to wait to post all this info, and about the warranty process.. so I'll update once I get more info.. I'd rather say it all at once rather than post after post after post..
> 
> My JoeBlow pump came in from Amazon yesterday(saved $30 bucks or so) so I pumped the tires up and road around in the parking garage.. all I can say is ear to ear smiles!
> 
> I did a lot of research/foot work and visited a bunch of LBS, and I got to test ride a few bikes .. a 4k Bianchi, Cannondale, 6k Trek, and a few others and this bike felt way more sturdy, but they all kinda felt the same.
> 
> This thing is so light.. my lady friend went to move it and was all 'wth.. this is lighter than my purse(which is real.. heh)'
> 
> I kinda feel bad for the LBS's cause everything is cheaper online.. I did drop 1k for assembly, bike fit, tubular tires/installation, etc .. which is for their professional services, which I had no problem paying. I don't mind paying professionals to do what they do best, but paying for crazy markup, I have a say in that.
> 
> I'll be going back to finish my fit once I get my new bars..
> 
> 
> -b


Congrats!


----------



## cokex

vladvm said:


> Congrats!


Thanks .. heh ..

I'm gonna try real hard to stay out of that other thread .. I bet it gets locked in less than a week.. Too many hot heads trying to shout their opinions rather than get some good factual info.

I've always heard bike people were snobby, but damn.. just as bad as supra owners! 

-b


----------



## Coolhand

indrek said:


> Can anyone tell me the exact diameter of FM028 integrated seatpost? I have ordered the frame but I want to make my own seat clamp with zero setback. The frame will arrive in 2 weeks, but I would like to start with the clamp.


Making your own seat clamp is kind of awesome. :thumbsup:


----------



## cokex

Coolhand said:


> Making your own seat clamp is kind of awesome. :thumbsup:



very! :thumbsup:


----------



## providince

Just heard back from Ms. Hu. She can do my bike and the paint design I wanted. There is a 25-30 day lead time after the factories open Monday so that is a bummer but Oh well. Time to get the teams order together.


----------



## config

cokex said:


> Thanks .. heh ..
> 
> I'm gonna try real hard to stay out of that other thread .. I bet it gets locked in less than a week.. Too many hot heads trying to shout their opinions rather than get some good factual info.
> 
> I've always heard bike people were snobby, but damn.. just as bad as supra owners!
> 
> -b


There it is - it's locked, you were right! It makes me think. With the availability of these Chinese carbon frames there are people who are ecstatic about it and the others feel threatened.


----------



## boleiro

*Zero Stack Headset for RFM101*

looking for zero stack headset options for the RFM101. I'm sitting in the middle of the 54cm and 56cm and have pretty much decided to go with the 56 if I can get a super low stack headset like the one in the pic below. The RFM has a tapered head tube, so I'll need a 45/45 1 1/8" top 1 1/4" bottom. I've found very few options with a 1 1/4" bottom and nothing for the zero stack. any ideas?


----------



## mrbubbles

Spotted in the wild, from Spanish forums, looks like there's people riding these frames just fine. (I believe the Cannondale is real, not the Pinarello)


----------



## providince

That bike looks very hot! Definitely a fake though, the rear brake cable is not internally routed in the top tube.


----------



## fab4

providince said:


> That bike looks very hot! Definitely a fake though, the rear brake cable is not internally routed in the top tube.


You can also tell a fake by the headtube bump. Real Pinarello has only one bump located in the bottom instead of two (top & bottom) on the fake ones.


----------



## graememac

I took delivery of my RB004 from carbonzone last week, its now in the shop having the BB30 adaptor and the headset fitted. I'm looking to build the rest of the bike up myself, does anyone know whether i'll need a different clamp for the front derailleur that i'm moving over from my trek? (its a shimano 105 5600)
Also will i be able to re use the cables from my current bike or do the internally routed cables need different fittings?


----------



## PBrooks

indrek said:


> Can anyone tell me the exact diameter of FM028 integrated seatpost? I have ordered the frame but I want to make my own seat clamp with zero setback. The frame will arrive in 2 weeks, but I would like to start with the clamp.


37mm, Do you have a projected weight of that thing?


----------



## indrek

PBrooks said:


> 37mm, Do you have a projected weight of that thing?


The one I made for 34,9mm seat post was 58g, so I'm hoping to stay under 70g.


----------



## phoeve

It's all built and my wife is riding it. No issues during the build at all. The internal rear brake cable works perfectly. I'll post picture soon. 



phoeve said:


> This build is for my wife. I'm too tall to fit on any of these frames
> 
> I purchased it from Mina at Deng-Fu. I initially emailed them and they sent me all their contact info. The rest of the communications were over Skype chat, which is text. She can also send files to you via Skype file transfer - like build sheets etc. Mina is a delight to interact with. She answered all my many questions over several weeks. After I was done deciding, she emailed me an invoice and I paid via PayPal. From my experience, Mina is usually available from 9pm to 7am EST to chat
> 
> I'll post an update when it arrives !
> 
> Her Skype ID is dengfubike.
> Her email address is [email protected]
> 
> Description
> Fm028 non isp 54cm 3k frameset(include frame,fork )with clear coating	1	360	360
> seatpost SP003 with clear coating 1	30	30
> headset for the Fm028 1	14	14
> bottlecage FD007 4	9	36
> rear hanger 1	2	2
> seatpost clamp 1	0	0
> shipping cost 1	80	80
> excess fee for the paypal 3.7% 19
> total $541.0


----------



## vladvm

double post


----------



## petepeterson

indrek said:


> The one I made for 34,9mm seat post was 58g, so I'm hoping to stay under 70g.



very interesting. I assume you have access to a CNC/machine shop? I would love to do this. Can you tell us how its produced?


----------



## indrek

petepeterson said:


> very interesting. I assume you have access to a CNC/machine shop? I would love to do this. Can you tell us how its produced?


CNC it is, 3 or 5-axis milling machine, haven't decided yet which one. A cylindrical aluminum block will be the donor. Probably going to anodize it to black as well.


----------



## dmabraham

*Jumping back in*

So I have been riding (not in the winter, xc time) an FM028 all past spring, summer, and fall. Served me well for ~1500-2000 miles. Its been on trainer duty this winter and I look forward to it next spring. I initially had a little headset wobble that was due to nothing more than user assembly error.

Moving forward, I just purchased this on ebay. Ill be putting it to use this spring in a bunch of multi sport events and hopefully a TT series I am trying to organize in the area. Sharing mainly for the nice price and in states shipping option that this guy seems to have worked out. I dont know if he is unloading some old stock, made a large buy, or what.

Would love to see some peoples TT bike built up.

Cheers
D


----------



## hdn0380

Looks like a Planet-X frame. If it is, then there's a lot of happy people riding them.


----------



## Coolhand

indrek said:


> CNC it is, 3 or 5-axis milling machine, haven't decided yet which one. A cylindrical aluminum block will be the donor. Probably going to anodize it to black as well.


Please post photos of the process and final result- very interested to see it.


----------



## sand101

cokex said:


> It's all together .. but I had a problem with the bars, it cracked during the install. So I'm working on warranty from Greatkeen, I'm in no hurry other than my own so I told them lets deal with this after the New Year has calmed down ..
> 
> here is a pic.. haven't rode it yet because I like having teeth, and tube is not cut because I still need to get fitted at the LBS ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -b


Dumb question on this one (because I love the frame). Is all of their stock painted that way or did you have the option of a nude finish?


----------



## zender

dmabraham said:


> Would love to see some peoples TT bike built up.


There are quite a few TT builds buried in the thousand or so pages of Chinese frame threads


----------



## vladvm

I'm trying to get Marco in brazil set this up for me since the orange decal was too much like pinarello so i decided to mix it up. Let me know what you guys think.


----------



## Vee

vladvm said:


> I'm trying to get Marco in brazil set this up for me since the orange decal was too much like pinarello so i decided to mix it up. Let me know what you guys think.


Should be awesome. Please post pictures and a total cost when done.


----------



## athletic91

clear coat came off when i remove a decal from the top tube. Note that this same decal has been pasted on other carbon bikes and did not destroy the clearcoat when removed.

Frame btw is custom painted by dengfu, initial impressions of the job was poor, dust under clear coat etc.

My assumption here is that the clear coat did not stick to the frame well and thus came off so easily


----------



## Vee

athletic91 said:


> clear coat came off when i remove a decal from the top tube. Note that this same decal has been pasted on other carbon bikes and did not destroy the clearcoat when removed.
> 
> Frame btw is custom painted by dengfu, initial impressions of the job was poor, dust under clear coat etc.
> 
> My assumption here is that the clear coat did not stick to the frame well and thus came off so easily


Time to sand and re-clear it properly...


----------



## cokex

sand101 said:


> Dumb question on this one (because I love the frame). Is all of their stock painted that way or did you have the option of a nude finish?


Yes.. I'm pretty sure they will do whatever you want .. I think there was a all carbon frame in the first few pages of these threads..


----------



## VAMurph

Yea, you can resand it and then clear coat it. Make sure you sand everything that will have the clear coat on it so you can a adhesion with the old. Should be easy. 

Also, Marco is now charging $40-45 for the stickers. FYI. Had to negotiate him down

Murph


----------



## boleiro

*RFM101 Owners Help!*

trying to choose which size FRM101 to get, I'm right there in the middle. Can any of you RFM101 owners PLEASE measure your standover height at the seat tube and Head tube? Pretty please. I'd like this for both the 54cm and 56cm. I have most of the measurements except this one. I'm way hyper analyzing this as I've never bought a frame without sitting on it first. Its keeping me up at night. Thanks for the help.


----------



## Guymk

Yikes! That looks like a pain in the ass. What frame is it?


----------



## vladvm

there are new chinarellos listing on ebay with italian thread.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Full-Carbon-3K-W...sure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item45f8a1e082


----------



## DiegoMontoya

Well, this thread just took a very strange turn.


----------



## beston

DiegoMontoya said:


> Well, this thread just took a very strange turn.


With the magic of a touch of a button, no one will ever have to see that lame attempt to troll again! Thank you moderators!


----------



## fab4

beston said:


> With the magic of a touch of a button, no one will ever have to see that lame attempt to troll again! Thank you moderators!


It was actually entertaining for a while 'till it got personal.


----------



## ocag

I was just looking at the hong-fu frames and I noticed that the FM001 is only $270 USD and the FM015 is $415 USD. Why the price discrepancy?

Is the FM015 a better bike? I assume they are suited better for different kinds of riding, but I don't know what that is. Any insight?


----------



## Vee

ocag said:


> I was just looking at the hong-fu frames and I noticed that the FM001 is only $270 USD and the FM015 is $415 USD. Why the price discrepancy?
> 
> Is the FM015 a better bike? I assume they are suited better for different kinds of riding, but I don't know what that is. Any insight?


You are comparing frame + fork vs. frame + no fork. 

Fm001 + fork = $335
FM015 + fork = $415

FM015 is said to ride better by a few on here.


----------



## boleiro

without being able to give details on the ride of each, I think the pricing difference can be attributed to the fact that the FM001 is one of the earlier frames and has been for sale for years. The FM015 is one of the newer frames with some of the more current features like a tapered headset and internal cable routing.


----------



## config

Can anyone post the geometry sheet for the FM015 or is it already posted somewhere? I've e-mailed them for it but still no response.


----------



## cfred84

config said:


> Can anyone post the geometry sheet for the FM015 or is it already posted somewhere? I've e-mailed them for it but still no response.


Can check dis out..
http://cheapcarbonframes.com/tag/geometry/


----------



## config

cfred84 said:


> Can check dis out..
> http://cheapcarbonframes.com/tag/geometry/


Thanks cfred & asianarnold!


----------



## asianarnold1

config said:


> Can anyone post the geometry sheet for the FM015 or is it already posted somewhere? I've e-mailed them for it but still no response.


Denfu http://dengfubikes.com/index.asp
FM015 http://dengfubikes.com/product.asp?id=7&classid=21
FM028 http://dengfubikes.com/product.asp?id=2&classid=21

you're welcome :thumbsup:


----------



## fab4

mrbubbles said:


> To satisfy robdamanii, somebody should order a Chinarello with Italian BB.


One can buy an Italian threaded Chinarello at ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....21176&_sacat=See-All-Categories&_fvi=1&_rdc=1.


----------



## equinoxx

Hi everyone, I have an fm015 (from DengFu) that I purchased a few months back. Recently I've been trying to hunt down an annoying creak. I have more or less removed/reinstalled/greased every part on the bike and the creak persisted. Yesterday, I found what I believe to be a couple of cracks on the inside of the seat tube. Not really sure how it could have happened or whether it is even an issue. 

For what its worth, i'm a 170lb rider casual rider. Bike has always been ridden on smooth roads/pavement. Pics below with cracks circled in red. Would appreciate any thoughts or opinions. On that note, I sent off an email to DengFu but their email address ([email protected]) seems to be bouncing. Does anyone have Mina's email address?

Pics:


----------



## beston

That looks like a pretty valid warranty claim to me. Now is the time to see how Dengfu actually handles this.


----------



## acme54321

Equinoxx how long was the seatpost you were running? Or more importantly how much insertion did it have?

I was getting kickbacks from their email yesterday but tried again this morning and it seems to have gone through.


----------



## looigi

Hard to tell from the pix but it kind of looks like minor misalignment of the frame parts when they were joined. Any signs of cracking or issues on the outside of the frame.


----------



## bobonker

Hi all,

I'm looking at 2 sources for a Chinarello frame.

Cycling Yong's site is full of detail and I've verified that the geometry exactly matches that of the Dogma, but they're pretty pricey at $828.
http://www.cyclingyong.com/category-47-b0-ROAD.html

Great Keen's offering is significatly cheaper (about $300 cheaper based on posts I've seen from others), but there's very little info about the frame geometry on the web site. Is it available somewhere? (I've emailed, but I think they're backlogged because of Chinese New Year)
http://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/cp_detail.php?id=64&nowmenuid=12&cpath=0009:&catid=0

Is there anything better about the Cycling Yong offering that makes them more of a consideration? I apologize if this has been answered already.

Bob


----------



## equinoxx

Seatpost is 300mm in total length. I run the seatpost fairly low so maybe 2/3 of it is inside the seat tube. No cracks of any kind on exterior of the frame.

Also I re-sent my email to [email protected] and it went through this morning. Will keep everyone posted as to what kind of response I get.


----------



## fab4

equinoxx said:


> Hi everyone, I have an fm015 (from DengFu) that I purchased a few months back. Recently I've been trying to hunt down an annoying creak. I have more or less removed/reinstalled/greased every part on the bike and the creak persisted. Yesterday, I found what I believe to be a couple of cracks on the inside of the seat tube. Not really sure how it could have happened or whether it is even an issue.
> 
> For what its worth, i'm a 170lb rider casual rider. Bike has always been ridden on smooth roads/pavement. Pics below with cracks circled in red. Would appreciate any thoughts or opinions. On that note, I sent off an email to DengFu but their email address ([email protected]) seems to be bouncing. Does anyone have Mina's email address?
> 
> Pics:



Does your frame have an aluminum insert inside the seat tube or is it full carbon? My RFM101, aka, Chinarello has an aluminum insert.


----------



## fab4

equinoxx said:


> Seatpost is 300mm in total length. I run the seatpost fairly low so maybe 2/3 of it is inside the seat tube. No cracks of any kind on exterior of the frame.
> 
> Also I re-sent my email to [email protected] and it went through this morning. Will keep everyone posted as to what kind of response I get.



Sometimes if the seatpost is too long you will get creaking. Try cutting it 3.5" from the top of the collar.


----------



## fab4

bobonker said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm looking at 2 sources for a Chinarello frame.
> 
> Cycling Yong's site is full of detail and I've verified that the geometry exactly matches that of the Dogma, but they're pretty pricey at $828.
> http://www.cyclingyong.com/category-47-b0-ROAD.html
> 
> Great Keen's offering is significatly cheaper (about $300 cheaper based on posts I've seen from others), but there's very little info about the frame geometry on the web site. Is it available somewhere? (I've emailed, but I think they're backlogged because of Chinese New Year)
> http://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/cp_detail.php?id=64&nowmenuid=12&cpath=0009:&catid=0
> 
> Is there anything better about the Cycling Yong offering that makes them more of a consideration? I apologize if this has been answered already.
> 
> Bob


Save you money and buy from Greatkeen. You can request the geometry specs from Greatkeen by emailing them. You also have the option of buying just a plain unpainted carbon frame from Greatkeen.


----------



## Italianrider76

fab4 said:


> One can buy an Italian threaded Chinarello at ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....21176&_sacat=See-All-Categories&_fvi=1&_rdc=1.


Why aren't these frames listed on the U.S ebay site anymore....I remember they used to be. You have to go ebay.co.uk......kind weird.


----------



## campLo

Finally finished my bike from e-hongfu. My first build, I know some of the cables are long lol.









a quickr pickr post


----------



## bobonker

campLo: That looks really nice. How does it ride? Which model frame is that? The design looks very similiar to the current Trek Madone. I just upgraded to SRAM Force on my 09 Madone 4.7 and the rear derailler cable started out about that long, too.  

fab4: Thanks for the input!

Bob


----------



## campLo

LOVE the bike. I just got the wheelset last week and couldnt believe the difference it made. i was riding on cpx22 previously with specialized hubs and it was heavy and slow. Its the FM-015ISP. I've had the bike for about a year now and its been great.


----------



## skygodmatt

equinoxx said:


> Hi everyone, I have an fm015 (from DengFu) that I purchased a few months back. Recently I've been trying to hunt down an annoying creak. I have more or less removed/reinstalled/greased every part on the bike and the creak persisted. Yesterday, I found what I believe to be a couple of cracks on the inside of the seat tube. Not really sure how it could have happened or whether it is even an issue.
> 
> For what its worth, i'm a 170lb rider casual rider. Bike has always been ridden on smooth roads/pavement. Pics below with cracks circled in red. Would appreciate any thoughts or opinions. On that note, I sent off an email to DengFu but their email address ([email protected]) seems to be bouncing. Does anyone have Mina's email address?
> g]


Your frame is cracked as your photos clearly show.. That's why it's creaking. Carbon frames have many layers of carbon sheets. They shouldn't be cracked. Let us know how everything goes with warranty and how much you have to pay.
Are you choosing to ride it like that?


----------



## alexb618

can anyone suggest a replacement headset for a fm015 - lower bearing is 1.5inch


----------



## looigi

campLo said:


> Finally finished my bike from e-hongfu. My first build, I know some of the cables are long lol.


Sweet! Really classy looking.


----------



## boleiro

can anyone with an FM001 confirm if this headset will work with it? Its the campagnolo hiddenset and it has the low profile I'm looking for. All the details make me think it will.

http://www.modernbike.com/itemgroup.asp?igpk=2126176813&TID=367


----------



## equinoxx

skygodmatt said:


> Your frame is cracked as your photos clearly show.. That's why it's creaking. Carbon frames have many layers of carbon sheets. They shouldn't be cracked. Let us know how everything goes with warranty and how much you have to pay.
> Are you choosing to ride it like that?


Thanks for your input. I have been riding it unknowingly for about 2 months in its current condition, though I don't know if the crack has gotten worse over time. Still waiting to hear back from Deng Fu. Will update further when I hear from them. I suspect I may be SOL  but we will see...


----------



## acme54321

Just ordered my FM028 can't wait!


----------



## octapotamus

So, pretty much read every post on these Chinese Frame/Wheel threads and I've finally done it!

Ordered the following from Yishun:

Carbon Stem YS-SM02 - 110mm
Carbon Handlebar YS-RB01 - 420mm
Carbon Clincher Wheelset - 50mm, Red Hubs, Black Spokes, Red nipples
Sram Red Groupset - 172.5 BB30 Crankset (53-39) & BB, 11-25 Cassette, FD to suit FM015
2 X Carbon Bottle Cages YS-BC07

$1897 incl $120 pp

And the following from Archtek:


FM031 - Size 550, BB30, 3K Clearcoat (3-4 week wait OK)
FK018 - 3K Clearcoat
SP012 - Carbon Seatpost
CP001 - Seatpost Clamp
2 X 5mm Carbon Headset Spacers
2 X 10mm Carbon Headset Spacers
1 X Spare Derailleur Hanger

$505 incl $70 pp

This just leaves Headset, Pedals, Saddle, Tyres and Bartape to order..

Will post pics, build progress and feedback as parts arrive, can't wait!

Stay tuned..


----------



## 5thdisciple

octapotamus you ordered an SRAM red groupset from YISHUN?


----------



## octapotamus

I sure did, brave huh? I took into account the rep of the company and the realistic price.. incredible value at 1200USD but not beyond the realm of possibility considering they go for 1300-1400 at times elsewhere. 

I was told they had 2 left in BB30 when I ordered.. my order is complete but for the wheelset which I was told would take 10 days as they don't have in stock currently (ordered feb 11).

Bring on March! :cornut:


----------



## Coolhand

octapotamus said:


> So, pretty much read every post on these Chinese Frame/Wheel threads and I've finally done it!


If there were *RBR Achievements*,_ that_ would be one of them. 

:thumbsup:


----------



## zender

With respect to that cracked seat-tube. Not sure what diameter that is, but if you don't get any love from China (roundtrip shipping and waiting around among other hassles), how about epoxying an aluminum seatpost shim in there? If it doesn't go deep enough because of the lip, you might need to get creative with a saw. Just a thought.


----------



## shevbot

*Headset problem*

I understand some people had to do a bit of sanding etc. to get stuff to fit together properly.
I'm looking for some advice regarding my headset. As can be seem there is a 3-4mm of an extra gap between the fork and frame.

I am using the Neco headset and bearings that came with this chinarello frame. the bottom bearing doesnt fit fully into the cup as can be seem in the pictures. Should I slowly sand the cup so the bearing fits in another 3-4mm or should I remove some of the tapered crown race seat allowing the race to move slightly further down the tube.

any help from chinarello owners appreciated!

pics here: https://imgur.com/a/0ZVj4


----------



## ms6073

1. You really should try to avoid clamping the top tube of your carbon frame in a bike stand (Park Tool makes an attachment that is inserted into the seat tube for clamping in the stand)










2a. I do not own one of these frames but after reviewing your images, it appears as if the ridge for the crown race is already molded into the fork crown thus that aloy crown race is not required.
2b. If that is not the case and the crown race is required, you will need to use a crown race setting tool or suitable alternative to seat the crown race until it sits flush with the fork crown (note that although the crown race setting tool requires a considerable amount of forcce, if the inner diamter of the Neco crown race is too small, then you will need to hone the I.D. of the crown race until it fits).


----------



## vladvm

I had the same problem, from photos here's what you need to do

1. you still need to sand the cup to properly sit the bottom bearing. bearing should fit in snug, not loose. if properly seated, there should be 3mm or so space between bearing the bottom headtube.

2. you still have to sand the bottom of crown race, that should make it sit flush to fork crown. if you look at the the crown race, the top is tapered (this snugs with bearing), the bottom is fillet (snugs with fork). if properly seated, the bottom of crown race touches the fork crown with maybe 0.5-1mm gap and crown race will be snug tight.

3. assemble and compress the whole thing, steering will be slightly tight, not super tight (important!). Make sure there is no play at the headtube when you hold the front brake and rock the bike back and forth.
in the end there should only be 1-2mm gap.


----------



## PlatyPius

A few days ago, someone asked why bike shops don't buy these frames, build them up, and sell them.

This is why:



> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td> REI Loses Liability Case for Defective Fork
> 
> </td><td style="float: right;" align="right">
> </td></tr></tbody></table>
> SEATTLE, WA (BRAIN)—Recreational Equipment Inc. is responsible for a defective bicycle part manufactured by another company and sold under the REI brand, a Washington appeals court ruled, just days after the plaintiff died in a backcountry skiing accident, according to Courthouse News Service.
> 
> Monika Johnson sued REI after a defective carbon fiber fork on her bicycle caused her to crash in 2007 and sustain serious injuries. The bike and part were manufactured by Aprebic Industry Company, but sold under REI's brand name Novara. The appellate court agreed with the trial court's ruling that REI has the liability of a manufacturer under the Washington Product Liability Act, according to CN.
> 
> "Accordingly, we affirm the trial court's ruling that Recreational Equipment, Inc. (REI) is not entitled to seek to allocate fault to the manufacturer of the defective product that REI branded as its own," Judge Stephen Dwyer wrote for the court's three-judge panel on Feb. 7. "We also conclude that the trial court erred neither by finding REI strictly liable for the injuries caused by the defective product nor by ruling that any third party claim by REI against the manufacturer would be severed for trial."
> 
> Johnson died during a ski trip on Feb. 1, when a snow ledge she was standing on broke, dropping her down a mountainside and burying her under snow, according to the Seattle Times.



I don't care who makes the frame, it just isn't worth it to a normal small bike shop to mess with it.


----------



## acme54321

Then the evil Chinese fork manufacturer booty trapped a snow bank so Johnson fell to an untimely death


----------



## mrbubbles

REI needs better lawyers to fend off liability lawsuits, preferably have it written on the receipt at the time of purchase to remove REI from all liabilities when it comes to product defects.


----------



## cokex

PlatyPius said:


> A few days ago, someone asked why bike shops don't buy these frames, build them up, and sell them.
> 
> This is why:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care who makes the frame, it just isn't worth it to a normal small bike shop to mess with it.


That lady sure did have some bad luck .. RIP.


----------



## petepeterson

PlatyPius said:


> A few days ago, someone asked why bike shops don't buy these frames, build them up, and sell them.
> 
> This is why:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care who makes the frame, it just isn't worth it to a normal small bike shop to mess with it.



LOL you could probably get sued in America for such slanderous statements.


----------



## ultraman6970

equinoxx, when that creak sound happens, pedaling? over the pedals??? everytime u apply some force to the pedals??? Is hard to tell from the pictures because what looks like a crack to you looks like a layer of carbon to me. Frames usually do not crack in that place, why? well that area does not have much stress, it is in the center of the head tube right? The other thing is that a crack usually goes all the way iside out, so you should be able to see a crack outside also.

Actually carbon is a pretty nice material that transmit sound really really well, so there is a possibility that the sound is not coming from that area u think but from somewhere else. I advice you to use carbon fiber assembly compound to diminish the amount of torque of the parts. The other thing is to change both quick releases, front and rear. The sound might be coming from an old quick release plastic thingy that worn out and the sound is generated in the fork and by amplification inside of the frame looks like is something and somewhere else in the bike.


----------



## ultraman6970

shevbot u "might" have the wrong headset in there, still can't understand why some of these manufacturers can't figure it out yet. 

Hope you have a caliper for this ok?

Based in your pictures, the crown race needs to be push IN, easy to do with a plastic pipe. So the picture is right. Now to the other pictures...

The bottom one looks wrong to me, too much room, but based in the shape of the crownrace probably is right, I advice you to put the crownrace over the bottom bearings and see if you have clearance between the frame and the crownrace, if the frame touch it is because it wont work and u might need to get a new headset.

The top bearing have to be flushed with the frame, looks like is not.

Now u need a caliper, measure the dept of the races in the frame, diameter of the races also, u will need that to find the right headset. If the bottom one works fine then u need the top bearing only, but u need a caliper, please use milimeters, inches are worthless because i need be more accurate than using english system. 

Good luck.


----------



## equinoxx

ultraman6970 said:


> equinoxx, when that creak sound happens, pedaling? over the pedals??? everytime u apply some force to the pedals??? Is hard to tell from the pictures because what looks like a crack to you looks like a layer of carbon to me. Frames usually do not crack in that place, why? well that area does not have much stress, it is in the center of the head tube right? The other thing is that a crack usually goes all the way iside out, so you should be able to see a crack outside also.


The area is just above where the seat tube and the top tube come together. Just a couple of inches below the seatpost clamp. Needless to say it is hard to take a picture of that spot. I have definitely checked the outside and I cannot find anything resembling a crack on the outside of the frame. 

It makes noise when i get on/off the bike. Also when I pedal hard to accelerate. Steady-state riding, it makes no noise. 

I did not think this area would be subject to a lot of stress either...so I kept thinking the creak was coming from another part of the bike and just being transmitted through the frame.


----------



## alexb618

you need to press the crown race on properly ie lower, and the lower bearing either needs a bit of a love tap with a rubber mallet or some light sanding of the inside of the head tube


----------



## Tubby1536

ultraman6970 said:


> shevbot u "might" have the wrong headset in there, still can't understand why some of these manufacturers can't figure it out yet.
> 
> Hope you have a caliper for this ok?
> 
> Based in your pictures, the crown race needs to be push IN, easy to do with a plastic pipe. So the picture is right. Now to the other pictures...
> 
> The bottom one looks wrong to me, too much room, but based in the shape of the crownrace probably is right, I advice you to put the crownrace over the bottom bearings and see if you have clearance between the frame and the crownrace, if the frame touch it is because it wont work and u might need to get a new headset.
> 
> The top bearing have to be flushed with the frame, looks like is not.
> 
> Now u need a caliper, measure the dept of the races in the frame, diameter of the races also, u will need that to find the right headset. If the bottom one works fine then u need the top bearing only, but u need a caliper, please use milimeters, inches are worthless because i need be more accurate than using english system.
> 
> Good luck.



I agree with ultraman. Bottom bearing looks fine in the frame, the depth it is sitting at looks to match the thickness of the crown race. 

Top one might be sitting too low, do you notice any issues once the top cap is in place. The Chinese headsets I have seen come with shims that might help with fitting the top cap properly. If the top cap fits properly without binding on the headtube the way it is then don't worry about it.

The crown race issue is interesting. As others have said it should be pushed all the way to the crown of the fork so there is no gap like you have now. They do take some force to get on. Assuming you are installing it correctly and it is not moving any farther I think the problem is the angled ridge another poster pointed out. Sand that down and you might be able to get it on. 

Of course the question is, why is that ridge there in the first place and will removing it compromise the integrity of the fork.


----------



## stevesbike

STOP - don't sand the fork. You just need to seat it with a crown race setting tool. Park makes one for a 1.5 headset or get an LBS to do it. You can use a homemade solution, but you risk gouging the fork. FWIW, I used an old large water bottle (the sort that sits on a dispenser in an office). It fit perfectly, but I've installed lots of crown races (and gouged some forks in the past too). Grease the fork and race prior to installing to make it easier.


----------



## petepeterson

google says.....
throw the new fork in the freezer for a half hour to an hour. After removing the crown race from the old fork, hit it with a heat gun or blow drier. Take the new fork out of the freezer and drop the heated crown race on the chilled steer tube. In most cases, it'll drop right into place with little or no pounding. 

someone try it... it's science


----------



## Guymk

What I do to seat the crown race without any special tool is a get a ~15" piece of hard wood about .75" by .75" and then place it on the edge of the crown race with the wood parallel to the steer tube(it will be practically touching the steerer tube) and tap the crown race down, moving around the steerer tube to tap it down evenly. The wood deforms so it doesn't harm the crown race and it works like a charm.


----------



## zender

stevesbike said:


> STOP - don't sand the fork. You just need to seat it with a crown race setting tool. Park makes one for a 1.5 headset or get an LBS to do it. You can use a homemade solution, but you risk gouging the fork. FWIW, I used an old large water bottle (the sort that sits on a dispenser in an office). It fit perfectly, but I've installed lots of crown races (and gouged some forks in the past too). Grease the fork and race prior to installing to make it easier.


OK, I want to see a picture of this in action! :thumbsup: 

You're talking about a 5 gallon bottle, right?


----------



## beston

Re: DIY crown race press.

I spent $1 (the price sticker is still on it) on a 1' x 1 1/4" PVC pipe about 10 years ago now. I've used it about 6 or 7 times to set a crown race on a fork and works like a charm!


----------



## fab4

shevbot said:


> I understand some people had to do a bit of sanding etc. to get stuff to fit together properly.
> I'm looking for some advice regarding my headset. As can be seem there is a 3-4mm of an extra gap between the fork and frame.
> 
> I am using the Neco headset and bearings that came with this chinarello frame. the bottom bearing doesnt fit fully into the cup as can be seem in the pictures. Should I slowly sand the cup so the bearing fits in another 3-4mm or should I remove some of the tapered crown race seat allowing the race to move slightly further down the tube.
> 
> any help from chinarello owners appreciated!
> 
> pics here: https://imgur.com/a/0ZVj4


I hope they gave you the right crown race for your lower bearing. Mine has a slit so it sits flush with the fork crown.


----------



## fab4

*Chinarello Single Speed*

I'm in the process of building a Chinarello single speed. It will look like the picture when it's all done.


----------



## acme54321

Awesome!!


----------



## bevo21

You make me smile!! Nice coloured bike with a good name on it.


----------



## shevbot

vladvm said:


> I had the same problem, from photos here's what you need to do
> 
> 1. you still need to sand the cup to properly sit the bottom bearing. bearing should fit in snug, not loose. if properly seated, there should be 3mm or so space between bearing the bottom headtube.
> 
> 2. you still have to sand the bottom of crown race, that should make it sit flush to fork crown. if you look at the the crown race, the top is tapered (this snugs with bearing), the bottom is fillet (snugs with fork). if properly seated, the bottom of crown race touches the fork crown with maybe 0.5-1mm gap and crown race will be snug tight.
> 
> 3. assemble and compress the whole thing, steering will be slightly tight, not super tight (important!). Make sure there is no play at the headtube when you hold the front brake and rock the bike back and forth.
> in the end there should only be 1-2mm gap.



I think I will go with this advice seeing as vladvm has had to do this already. 
The setting of the crown race has been attempted by two LBS's using the correct tool so it is just to wide at the bottom for the race to move down any further. 

It will be difficult to sand the tapered few mms at the bottom of the crown without sanding the area above, but I suppose that wont matter once the bottom section is done.

The top bearing should be ok using the two shims provided by the seller.

thanks for the suggestions


----------



## Coolhand

*fab4* that's awesome! :thumbsup: Please post pictures of the build and complete bike.


----------



## stevesbike

zender said:


> OK, I want to see a picture of this in action! :thumbsup:
> 
> You're talking about a 5 gallon bottle, right?


yup - it fit perfectly on the race - I had everything in place to build up the bike (a Deda Scuro RS) and realized I didn't have a 1.5 race setter. Friday night, LBS closed, wanted to ride Sat am, so scoured the house for something to fit.


----------



## thefutureofamerica

shevbot said:


> I think I will go with this advice seeing as vladvm has had to do this already.
> The setting of the crown race has been attempted by two LBS's using the correct tool so it is just to wide at the bottom for the race to move down any further.
> 
> It will be difficult to sand the tapered few mms at the bottom of the crown without sanding the area above, but I suppose that wont matter once the bottom section is done.
> 
> The top bearing should be ok using the two shims provided by the seller.
> 
> thanks for the suggestions


Shevbot - sanding is not the answer. You got the wrong headset. The critical dimension is 'bore depth' - that is, the distance along the long axis of the headtube between the outer lower or upper face of the head tube and where the chamfer in the head tube that forms the cup begins. You can go on Cane Creek's website to see a diagram of what I mean. Your bearings are too tall, and that's why they stick out of the frame. The shims provided (if it's a neco headset) will only make them taller, not take up the space. 

FWIW, I provided very similar pictures over the weekend to Jenny at HongFu and as of yesterday she agreed to refund me the 15 USD for my headset.


----------



## srracer

fab4 said:


> I'm in the process of building a Chinarello single speed. It will look like the picture when it's all done.


LOVE IT!

Now I want to build one and steal your graphics design just because it's so awesome.

I'd smile everytime I looked at the bike - whether I was riding it or not.

:thumbsup:


----------



## acme54321

thefutureofamerica said:


> Shevbot - sanding is not the answer. You got the wrong headset. The critical dimension is 'bore depth' - that is, the distance along the long axis of the headtube between the outer lower or upper face of the head tube and where the chamfer in the head tube that forms the cup begins. You can go on Cane Creek's website to see a diagram of what I mean. Your bearings are too tall, and that's why they stick out of the frame. The shims provided (if it's a neco headset) will only make them taller, not take up the space.
> 
> FWIW, I provided very similar pictures over the weekend to Jenny at HongFu and as of yesterday she agreed to refund me the 15 USD for my headset.


Looks to me like his crown race isn't completely set also.


----------



## beston

fab4 said:


> I'm in the process of building a Chinarello single speed. It will look like the picture when it's all done.


Simply awesome. I had been thinking about the same thing. I don't think that I could go through with it though.

... My only suggestion. Don't put a 'made in Italy' sticker on the seat tube... put a 'made in china' sticker with a china flag!


----------



## looigi

beston said:


> ... Don't put a 'made in Italy' sticker on the seat tube... put a 'made in china' sticker with a china flag!


" Hecho en Chine."


----------



## DiegoMontoya

I'm naming my Chinarello Hematocrit 60.1

Take that Bjarne.


----------



## figgskzoo

acme54321 said:


> Just ordered my FM028 can't wait!


Me too! I ordered the RB002 (FM028) from carbonzone and he didn't have the headset in stock but said he'd have one in 5-7 days and would ship it and my frame together when he got it. I opted to forego the headset thinking that I'd get a better one than the Neco H373 they provide for $14. Well, it really took a lot of digging to figure out what I needed but I finally found this frame schematic which indicates a head tube upper inner diameter of 42mm and a head tube lower inner diameter of 52mm. I combined that info with the info from Neco's site (crown race dia. 39.8mm) and determined that this FSA Orbit CF-40 headset should be perfectly compatible. It has a 42mm upper race, a 52mm lower race and a 39.8mm crown race, and uses the 45/45 degree Angular Contact Bearings (ACB / Campy spec.) exactly like the Neco H373. The only difference I see is the stack height which, if I'm not mistaken, is more or less irrelevant to actual fit and compatibility (differing opinions welcome - please!). Hopefully this info will help others who might want to use a better headset than those offered from the frame vendors.

--figgs


----------



## providince

I am hoping someone can help me out. I am about to order the fm028 from Tony at Dengfu but I am trying to get them to paint a specific way. I would like them to paint it similar to the 2011 Tarmac pro (Matte Black/white/blue see attached picture.) To do this, he needs a PDF of the way it should be painted. I do not have the skill to do this and was hoping someone would be able to help me create this. I would greatly appreciate the help.


----------



## tuanmynsr

*RFM101 build*

I thought I would share my Chinarello just recently build up. I know it's not a Pinarello but I like the look and design and didn't want to pay high $$$ for the real thing.

Size 53.5
Campy 11 speed Record shifters, derailleurs, cassette, crankset
CNC featherlite knock-off brakeset
SELLE ITALIA XRP MOST saddle
Reynolds SDV66 clinchers
Elite carbon cage.
Complete bike with cages and computer weighs about 16.2 lbs. Not weight weenies but still good. Could save some weight if I change the wheels to tubular.

I raced it this past weekend in a Crit race and it was pretty good. For the price of the frameset, I didn't mind if I crashed it.


----------



## cokex

tuanmynsr said:


> I thought I would share my Chinarello just recently build up. I know it's not a Pinarello but I like the look and design and didn't want to pay high $$$ for the real thing.
> 
> Size 53.5
> Campy 11 speed Record shifters, derailleurs, cassette, crankset
> CNC featherlite knock-off brakeset
> SELLE ITALIA XRP MOST saddle
> Reynolds SDV66 clinchers
> Elite carbon cage.
> Complete bike with cages and computer weighs about 16.2 lbs. Not weight weenies but still good. Could save some weight if I change the wheels to tubular.
> 
> I raced it this past weekend in a Crit race and it was pretty good. For the price of the frameset, I didn't mind if I crashed it.


Nice!


----------



## Spursrider

Good looking bike, tuanmynsr. What seatpost is that?


----------



## fab4

Spursrider said:


> Good looking bike, tuanmynsr. What seatpost is that?



I second that. Tuanmynsr's bike is *****in'. The seatpost looks like a Control Tech carbon.


----------



## XR4Ti

That reminds me -- Velo Vie has their 300SE frame on for $700. I ride one (but in prototype red). But I think it's made in Taiwan (& not China).

http://www.velovie.com/Articles.asp?ID=244


----------



## Coolhand

DiegoMontoya said:


> I'm naming my Chinarello Hematocrit 60.1
> 
> Take that Bjarne.


Double awesome!


----------



## Tubby1536

figgskzoo said:


> Me too! I ordered the RB002 (FM028) from carbonzone and he didn't have the headset in stock but said he'd have one in 5-7 days and would ship it and my frame together when he got it. I opted to forego the headset thinking that I'd get a better one than the Neco H373 they provide for $14. Well, it really took a lot of digging to figure out what I needed but I finally found this frame schematic which indicates a head tube upper inner diameter of 42mm and a head tube lower inner diameter of 52mm. I combined that info with the info from Neco's site (crown race dia. 39.8mm) and determined that this FSA Orbit CF-40 headset should be perfectly compatible. It has a 42mm upper race, a 52mm lower race and a 39.8mm crown race, and uses the 45/45 degree Angular Contact Bearings (ACB / Campy spec.) exactly like the Neco H373. The only difference I see is the stack height which, if I'm not mistaken, is more or less irrelevant to actual fit and compatibility (differing opinions welcome - please!). Hopefully this info will help others who might want to use a better headset than those offered from the frame vendors.
> 
> --figgs


It should work. You linked to part number 121-0466 which has the ABC bottom bearings whcih is what you want. See my post, #953 in this thread.

You are correct about stack height, it is just the height of the top cap. Unless you need to get you stem as low as possible it will make no difference.


----------



## tuanmynsr

Seatpost is a Control Tech carbon. 
Thanks guys for the nice comment ;-). I know there have been alot of bashing on the Chinarello. I know it's not the real thing but it's a good frame for a very good price. 



fab4 said:


> I second that. Tuanmynsr's bike is *****in'. The seatpost looks like a Control Tech carbon.


----------



## Jesserue

tuanmynsr said:


> Seatpost is a Control Tech carbon.
> Thanks guys for the nice comment ;-). I know there have been alot of bashing on the Chinarello. I know it's not the real thing but it's a good frame for a very good price.


Beautiful bike tuanmynsr, can I ask where you had the decals made? It appears you are located in OC? I'm in South County and getting ready to pull the trigger on a build as well.

Cheers


----------



## figgskzoo

Tubby1536 said:


> I have been doing some research on FSA headsets and have found the following for evryone looking to buy one instea of use the Chinese one.
> 
> FSA has four C-40 headsets they are also sometimes called no.42 (there are also 2 cycle-cross headsets but I left them out for simplicity). Essentially the difference is the bottom bearings and top cap. 2 have an industrial 1 1/2 45/36 bottom bearing and 2 with an ACB 1 1/2 45/36bottom bearing. Each with an option of alloy or carbon top cap. The Carbon one more commonly seen as CF-40. I also believe you can get any of these with either a 10mm or 15mm top cap but I don't think that changes the product number, you need to ask what the vendor has.
> 
> FSA part number 121-0460 Aluminum top cap ACB bottom bearing.
> FSA part number 121-0461 Aluminum Top cap, Industrial bearing
> FSA part number 121-0465 Carbon cap, Industrial bottom bearing
> FSA part number 121-0466 Carbon Cap, ACB bottom bearing
> 
> Technical details can be found in this document. The tricky part is though the doc does not refer to the FSA product numbers above. See pages 127, 131 and 132 for the no.42 bearing specs.
> http://www.fullspeedahead.com/downloadfly.aspx?download=downloads/2010+Headsets+Catalogue.pdf
> 
> 
> Now of course the question is which one fits? My guess is the standard ACB model but cannot confirm. Also I have not found any mention anywhere of a 45/45 bottom bearing that some have recommended. If anyone knows that model number we can add it to this list.
> 
> The other thing that is weird is that I have seen pictures of bottom bearings that look like they have no angle on them. I think sellers are just using a wrong picture as the description always states 45/36 bottom bearing. I have not been able to identify the non-angled bearing in the FSA catalogue to confirm. If anyone knows what this one is let me know as well.


the 121-0466 has the 45/45 bottom bearing according the product specs here. I think that 'ACB' is synonymous with 45/45 which, if I'm not mistaken is also referred to as the Campy spec.


----------



## Tubby1536

figgskzoo said:


> the 121-0466 has the 45/45 bottom bearing according the product specs here. I think that 'ACB' is synonymous with 45/45 which, if I'm not mistaken is also referred to as the Campy spec.



Well I can tell you I have the 121-0466 and the bottom bearing is a 45/36. And that link does not specicifcally say it is 45/45 it just says 45. From what I can tell from searching the net and what is contained in that FSA product guide there is no such thing as a 45/45bottom bearing.

The ACB just means angular contact bearing, it has nothing to do with the campy spec at all. Almost all heaset bearings are angular contact. FSA uses that to differenciate between the 2 sizes of 1.5" bottom bearings they have. They call one ACB and one Industrial.


----------



## boleiro

Interesting tubby, I've been looking for a headset for the FM001 and I have found a couple of 45/45 spec'd headsets. The campy chorus is one, here are the specs:

"The Campagnolo Chorus Hiddenset internal headset, requires head tube designed for internal headset

TTC (Tall Top Cap) top bearing cap is 10mm taller to reduce the need for spacers; additional spacers can be added

42mm head tube I.D.

Includes top cap assembly

Steerer Tube: 1-1/8" Threadless

Headset Type: Integrated, 42.0mm OD bearing 45/45 (Hiddenset)

Color: Black

Crown Race: 30.0

Stack Height: 5.9 mm

Bearing Type: 1/8" Ball

Material: Al

Weight: 82.0 g"

As far as I can tell, this is a 45 degree top and bottom bearing and it should work unless there is something I'm missing?


----------



## Tubby1536

boleiro said:


> Interesting tubby, I've been looking for a headset for the FM001 and I have found a couple of 45/45 spec'd headsets. The campy chorus is one, here are the specs:
> 
> "The Campagnolo Chorus Hiddenset internal headset, requires head tube designed for internal headset
> 
> TTC (Tall Top Cap) top bearing cap is 10mm taller to reduce the need for spacers; additional spacers can be added
> 
> 42mm head tube I.D.
> 
> Includes top cap assembly
> 
> Steerer Tube: 1-1/8" Threadless
> 
> Headset Type: Integrated, 42.0mm OD bearing 45/45 (Hiddenset)
> 
> Color: Black
> 
> Crown Race: 30.0
> 
> Stack Height: 5.9 mm
> 
> Bearing Type: 1/8" Ball
> 
> Material: Al
> 
> Weight: 82.0 g"
> 
> As far as I can tell, this is a 45 degree top and bottom bearing and it should work unless there is something I'm missing?



I should have been more specific. For the 1.5" bottom bearings I can't find a 45/45. You are correct, the standard 1 1/8 campy headsets have 45/45 bottom bearings.


----------



## stevesbike

Tubby1536 said:


> I should have been more specific. For the 1.5" bottom bearings I can't find a 45/45. You are correct, the standard 1 1/8 campy headsets have 45/45 bottom bearings.


The Ritchey Zero Pro tapered headset has a 1.5 45x45 lower bearing. The first 45 is the contact angle between the crown race and the bearing. The second 45 is the contact angle between the bearing and the internal race inside the head tube. So long as the right crown race is used with the respective bearing, there shouldn't be any issue - they both appear to have the same 52mm internal diameter fit and provide enough clearance between the bottom of the head tube and the top of the fork once installed. Cane creek also sells bottom bearings separately. Their 1.5 lower bearing is 36x46 like the FSA lower bearing. It did look to me like the cane creek results in less space between head tube and fork, but I haven't tested it to see if it provides sufficient clearance. Universal cycles sells the Ritchey for about half the price of the FSA.


----------



## figgskzoo

Tubby1536 said:


> Well I can tell you I have the 121-0466 and the bottom bearing is a 45/36. And that link does not specicifcally say it is 45/45 it just says 45. From what I can tell from searching the net and what is contained in that FSA product guide there is no such thing as a 45/45bottom bearing.
> 
> The ACB just means angular contact bearing, it has nothing to do with the campy spec at all. Almost all heaset bearings are angular contact. FSA uses that to differenciate between the 2 sizes of 1.5" bottom bearings they have. They call one ACB and one Industrial.


Not trying to be adversarial or argumentative, rather trying to learn and pass along what I'm finding. Hopefully, anybody trying to use a headset other than the one offered with the frame is finding our discussion informative.


----------



## Tubby1536

stevesbike said:


> The Ritchey Zero Pro tapered headset has a 1.5 45x45 lower bearing. The first 45 is the contact angle between the crown race and the bearing. The second 45 is the contact angle between the bearing and the internal race inside the head tube. So long as the right crown race is used with the respective bearing, there shouldn't be any issue - they both appear to have the same 52mm internal diameter fit and provide enough clearance between the bottom of the head tube and the top of the fork once installed. Cane creek also sells bottom bearings separately. Their 1.5 lower bearing is 36x46 like the FSA lower bearing. It did look to me like the cane creek results in less space between head tube and fork, but I haven't tested it to see if it provides sufficient clearance. Universal cycles sells the Ritchey for about half the price of the FSA.


Where did you get your info on the Ritchey? I will take your word for it but have not been able to find the specs for it. The ritchey site does not even have a picture, lol. Price difference is probably due to the Ritchey having an alloy top cover instead of carbon.

I agree with your comment about the crown race angle and did not mention it since traditionally a different angle means different size bearings and I had not found a 45/45 to compare the measurements of the 36/45 to. 

I would be surprised if the Cane creek did not work out to the same clearence.

BTW FSA just updated their site and have a new catalogue posted. It has the Industrial bearing diagrams now. It also lists a 45/45 1.5 bearing now in the bearing list but I can't find what headset it actually goes with.

http://www.fullspeedahead.com/stora...2428_2011_Cat.Headset_Technical_Catalogue.pdf

As I post this the FSA site is a little hit and miss so if the link does not work try again in a little while.


----------



## Tubby1536

figgskzoo said:


> Not trying to be adversarial or argumentative, rather trying to learn and pass along what I'm finding. Hopefully, anybody trying to use a headset other than the one offered with the frame is finding our discussion informative.



I did not take it that way and neither was I. This is a good conversation and I certainly don't think I know all there is not know about it, just passing the info on from my research and what I have physically in front of me.


----------



## stevesbike

Tubby1536 said:


> Where did you get your info on the Ritchey? I will take your word for it but have not been able to find the specs for it. The ritchey site does not even have a picture, lol. Price difference is probably due to the Ritchey having an alloy top cover instead of carbon.
> 
> I agree with your comment about the crown race angle and did not mention it since traditionally a different angle means different size bearings and I had not found a 45/45 to compare the measurements of the 36/45 to.
> 
> I would be surprised if the Cane creek did not work out to the same clearence.
> 
> BTW FSA just updated their site and have a new catalogue posted. It has the Industrial bearing diagrams now. It also lists a 45/45 1.5 bearing now in the bearing list but I can't find what headset it actually goes with.
> 
> http://www.fullspeedahead.com/stora...2428_2011_Cat.Headset_Technical_Catalogue.pdf
> 
> As I post this the FSA site is a little hit and miss so if the link does not work try again in a little while.


I bought all three - needed to get a bike built up quickly. The Ritchey has 45x45 stamped on the bottom bearing along with 51.9 (diameter)


----------



## ColoRoadie

providince said:


> I am hoping someone can help me out. I am about to order the fm028 from Tony at Dengfu but I am trying to get them to paint a specific way. I would like them to paint it similar to the 2011 Tarmac pro (Matte Black/white/blue see attached picture.) To do this, he needs a PDF of the way it should be painted. I do not have the skill to do this and was hoping someone would be able to help me create this. I would greatly appreciate the help.


Sure, PM me your email address and I'll send the pdf's over.


----------



## MarQs

tuanmynsr said:


> I thought I would share my Chinarello just recently build up. I know it's not a Pinarello but I like the look and design and didn't want to pay high $$$ for the real thing.
> 
> Size 53.5
> Campy 11 speed Record shifters, derailleurs, cassette, crankset
> CNC featherlite knock-off brakeset
> SELLE ITALIA XRP MOST saddle
> Reynolds SDV66 clinchers
> Elite carbon cage.
> Complete bike with cages and computer weighs about 16.2 lbs. Not weight weenies but still good. Could save some weight if I change the wheels to tubular.
> 
> I raced it this past weekend in a Crit race and it was pretty good. For the price of the frameset, I didn't mind if I crashed it.


Great ride! :thumbsup: 
If you don't mind me asking, how tall are you?
Just put down an order for a Chinarelloframe at greatkeenbike and i orderd the 56cm frame. I'm 178cm / 5' 10"
I ride a 54cm Bianchi via Nirone and a 56 cm Cannondale slice, and both fit me fine...
comparing sizecharts on greatkeen, cyclingyong and pinarello.com it seems to me that the chinarelloframes are one size smaller the a real pinarelloframe...  
The 56cm chinarellos are actually a 54 cm according to pinarellos charts...


----------



## tuanmynsr

I am 5'8" . I am using a 110 mm stem. This is like a 51.5 in the PInarello size. 




MarQs said:


> Great ride! :thumbsup:
> If you don't mind me asking, how tall are you?
> Just put down an order for a Chinarelloframe at greatkeenbike and i orderd the 56cm frame. I'm 178cm / 5' 10"
> I ride a 54cm Bianchi via Nirone and a 56 cm Cannondale slice, and both fit me fine...
> comparing sizecharts on greatkeen, cyclingyong and pinarello.com it seems to me that the chinarelloframes are one size smaller the a real pinarelloframe...
> The 56cm chinarellos are actually a 54 cm according to pinarellos charts...


----------



## foofighter

tuanmynsr said:


> I am 5'8" . I am using a 110 mm stem. This is like a 51.5 in the PInarello size.


wait, so the chinarello frame runs smaller than the OG Pinarello? That's so weird

I'm your height as well and my FP7 Pinarello is a 50


----------



## mrbubbles

foofighter said:


> wait, so the chinarello frame runs smaller than the OG Pinarello? That's so weird
> 
> I'm your height as well and my FP7 Pinarello is a 50


Although the geometry is identical, they are not measured identically. A Pinarello is measured from the center of bb to center of top tube, while the Chinarello is measured from center of bb to top of seat tube. Ergo, a 52 chinarello is a 50 pinarello.


----------



## foofighter

^^thanks for the explanation


----------



## fab4

mrbubbles said:


> Although the geometry is identical, they are not measured identically. A Pinarello is measured from the center of bb to center of top tube, while the Chinarello is measured from center of bb to top of seat tube. Ergo, a 52 chinarello is a 50 pinarello.



Correct. Greatkeen measures the RFM101 (aka Chinarello) from the center of the BB to the top. Anybody interested in buying should base their decision on the top tube lenght. Check out the geometry specs on different sizes from Greatkeen below.


----------



## foofighter

Just FYI i got an email from GOTOBIKE that their account was hacked and that invoices are being sent out with erroneous banking info.

Not sure if it's a legit email or not but just wanted to pass it on


----------



## bobonker

Pulled the trigger on unpainted RFM101 "Chinarello" from greatkeenbike.com. I also got a headset, seatpost, and 4 water bottle cages. I'm going to build it up with a mix of Dura-Ace 7800 (shifters, brakes, wheels) and Ultegra 6600 (everything else) parts.

Dealt with "Victor". There was a bit of language barrier there, but all in all, not bad. 

Looking forward to putting it together and will post pics of my build.

Bob


----------



## wevergo

Replica from Speedy Li Store.


----------



## mamamia

.....


----------



## Tubby1536

foofighter said:


> Just FYI i got an email from GOTOBIKE that their account was hacked and that invoices are being sent out with erroneous banking info.
> 
> Not sure if it's a legit email or not but just wanted to pass it on


I got the same email. Looks legit.


----------



## Hbock

I received an email from Mina @ dengfu today and my FM018 will ship ASAP. Waiting on a tracking number. 

Any body have issues building up the FM018 TT frame? I'm using the headset from dengfu otherwise its a frame swap project.


----------



## acme54321

Hbock said:


> I received an email from Mina @ dengfu today and my FM018 will ship ASAP. Waiting on a tracking number.
> 
> Any body have issues building up the FM018 TT frame? I'm using the headset from dengfu otherwise its a frame swap project.


When did you order it? Any special paint or anything?


----------



## zender

Hbock said:


> I received an email from Mina @ dengfu today and my FM018 will ship ASAP. Waiting on a tracking number.
> 
> Any body have issues building up the FM018 TT frame? I'm using the headset from dengfu otherwise its a frame swap project.


The rear brake under the bottom bracket requires some work. You can't fit a standard dual pivot caliper in there, just not enough space inside the small chainring. 

Not sure if you ordered the "OEM" Tektro that they sell with it, but it isn't adequate. The problem is there should be a cable stop as part of the frame near the position of the rear brake (other designs have this). The Tektro is a center pull and the housing has no stop so the housing will flex when you brake. Combined with the curves necessary for the internal routing, this makes for sketchy braking. True, it's the rear, so if you're riding totally flat tri's or TT's you could get used to it.

I finally did what others have with this frame, bought a Simpkins egg brake for the rear and used teflon brake cable. The Simpkins brake is not cheap, but they hold their value pretty well if you don't trash it. They are beautiful to look at too. It's still not something I'd want to ride at 40mph down a windy road, but for a TT, it's fine.

I had zero other issues on the bike. Adjusting the seat (since the post is totally vertical) is such a breeze.


----------



## figgskzoo

Hbock said:


> I received an email from Mina @ dengfu today and my FM018 will ship ASAP. Waiting on a tracking number.
> 
> Any body have issues building up the FM018 TT frame? I'm using the headset from dengfu otherwise its a frame swap project.


deleted post...


----------



## tuffguy1500

octapotamus said:


> So, pretty much read every post on these Chinese Frame/Wheel threads and I've finally done it!


So, I can finally second that quote... wow that's a lot of reading and I thank each person who has purchased a frame before me and posted their experience, and especially to LarsEjaas who showed me the gotobike frame he purchased. I ended up buying the exact same frame from Loice at gotobike, and here are my experiences:

1. They Skype! This was incredibly helpful to me as the responses were much faster than email, and I was able to "see" the employees working by at least being available to customers. I spoke with them intermittently over the course of a month or so gathering info and just trying to get an idea of the company and its operations.

2. They were always very professional, and sent all of the information that I requested of them

3. They processed and shipped my order in one day and gave a lead time of 5-7 days, but we'll have to see how long it really takes.. starting at the end of this post.

Once again to all those who went before me and posted their experience, thank you. I've been lurking in this thread for months and months and kept waiting for the right frame to show up, and it finally did. I will do my part to reciprocate once my bike shows up, so be prepared for plenty of pics and ride experience reviews!!

/rbr ftw!


----------



## tuffguy1500

double post...


----------



## octapotamus

absolutely. massive thanks to everyone for sharing previously, enormously helpful.


----------



## bobonker

Any users of the "Ness" bars have any feedback? How do you like them?










Is there a technical drawing of these somewhere? Specifically, I am interested in the angle of the stem. Does the stem have a positive rise (like the FSA Plasma integrated) or a negative rise (like the PRO integrated setup). It's tough to tell from the picture. I need something with a stem that angles up because I have some back problems that prevent me from riding a stem that angles down (unless there's a huge stack of stem spacers -- which looks silly).

Thanks,
Bob


----------



## cfred84

i sent a defective fork back to [email protected] bikes
But I got a message "Incomplete address" on my online tracking

Anyone has experience posting items to China?
Their address system with all the Provinces, towns and city is confusing!
Hopefully can get them to collect it at the post office there wherever it might be!!


----------



## Hbock

acme54321 said:


> When did you order it? Any special paint or anything?


The FM018 was ordered from Mina at Dengfu just before the Chinese new year. Mina sent me a email telling me up front that the goods would not ship until mid-February due to the holiday. No special paint. Clear coat, 54c frame fork and seat post. I did add the base bar with aero bars and the brake set. After reading feedback on the rear brake I should skipped the OEM brake set.


----------



## zender

You can ebay that OEM brake and get most of what you paid for it back. If you haven't already built the bike, I wouldn't even bother installing it. What this frame really needs is this. This is a Spec Transitions frame, but others use the same concept of bolting a cable stop down there. Then again, you can buy a lot of egg brakes for the price difference between Cancellara's frame and the FM018


----------



## figgskzoo

bobonker said:


> Any users of the "Ness" bars have any feedback? How do you like them?


What's Keen charging for these doggies? They're gorgeous!


----------



## bobonker

figgskzoo said:


> What's Keen charging for these doggies? They're gorgeous!


Last time I checked, they were $140. Looks like the stem angles up (good for me), but it's hard to tell from that pic. 

Bob


----------



## cokex

bobonker said:


> Last time I checked, they were $140. Looks like the stem angles up (good for me), but it's hard to tell from that pic.
> 
> Bob


you should look through the treads, I have a picture of this bar on my bike.

-b


----------



## vladvm

Again as reference to those building the chinarello with cable guide issue, here's what I did.

Frame came with this:









Compare with original Pinarello cable guide FP7









Here's the fix....Use candle and little bending and teflon housing. Works like a charm!


----------



## zender

What's the hole above the barcode on the real Pinarello?


----------



## thefutureofamerica

zender said:


> What's the hole above the barcode on the real Pinarello?


It's either a belly button or for Di2 wiring.


----------



## bobonker

cokex said:


> you should look through the treads, I have a picture of this bar on my bike.
> 
> -b


Found it. Looks like they angle up slightly. I'm a little concerned to hear that they broke during install. I'm assuming it was the one of the two bolts for the stem area to clamp around the steerer tube?

Bob


----------



## boleiro

so all you FM001 owners, I just came across this thread about the Kuota Warranty issues: 

(http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=241121). 

Obviously I'm not worried about the warranty as I'm looking at getting an FM001. But, I'm more concerned with the thread going in the direction of durability of the kuota frames. And these are issues with the real thing. Now that you all have had some time on the bike, hows it holding up? any issues with the thin tubing, cracks, etc.


----------



## cokex

bobonker said:


> Found it. Looks like they angle up slightly. I'm a little concerned to hear that they broke during install. I'm assuming it was the one of the two bolts for the stem area to clamp around the steerer tube?
> 
> Bob


Not exactly sure what happened other than it cracked at the top bolt when being tightened. 

GK is going to warranty the bars so no worries here..

-b


----------



## berndrea

I have the FM001, and I have about 3000mi it. Carbon is still stiff, clear coat is rough (I ride in the rain.)







, carbon bars and stem are coming soon with new wrap and hoods.


----------



## boleiro

good to hear berndrea... looking forward to your post. any ride characteristics welcomed too.


----------



## berndrea

and I do beat the crap out of my bike. Potholes, gravel, rail road tracks, monster hills (if anyone is familiar with woodinville, wa area)


----------



## berndrea

My next purchase from China is going to be the titanium frame.


----------



## boleiro

Good to hear, I wouldn't admit to beating up my bikes, but since I've only ridden steel, I'm sure my opinion of taking care of my ride is different from CF owners. For this reason, I've stayed away from carbon until I saw these cheaper options. and I'm still hesitant. But glad to hear there are good reviews after significant miles. 

the they have a titanium frame?


----------



## beston

Cokex, or anyone else that has dealt with greatkeenbike.com. Did you get a tracking number after you placed your order? 

After speaking with Ms. Hu, I ordered a set of handlebars 5 days ago and haven't heard anything since. I'm not worried about losing my money, but I just don't know what the typical process is.

Thanks


----------



## JezBike

Here are some photos I took of my DengFu FM028 build. I hope they are of some help to others looking at getting one of these. 
I've only done a 30 minute ride but so far, there is very little 'buzz' vibration and the bike feels very well planted up to 50 k/hr. As far as I can tell it is of a decent stiffness too

Headset bottom bearing dimensions









Headset top bearing dimensions









Frame weight









Fork weight (uncut)









Bearing seat for the fork









Almost complete


----------



## cokex

beston said:


> Cokex, or anyone else that has dealt with greatkeenbike.com. Did you get a tracking number after you placed your order?
> 
> After speaking with Ms. Hu, I ordered a set of handlebars 5 days ago and haven't heard anything since. I'm not worried about losing my money, but I just don't know what the typical process is.
> 
> Thanks


I asked a week or so after i sent the money for a tracking number and she gave me one.

I'd just send an email asking for an update/tracking number.

-b


----------



## beston

Thanks for the reply cokex. I did contact Ms. Hu yesterday even, but didn't hear back. I'll try again at the end of the weekend if she doesn't reply.

Can you tell me approximately how long your delivery time was (from order to receiving)?


----------



## cokex

beston said:


> Thanks for the reply cokex. I did contact Ms. Hu yesterday even, but didn't hear back. I'll try again at the end of the weekend if she doesn't reply.
> 
> Can you tell me approximately how long your delivery time was (from order to receiving)?


about 4 weeks ..


----------



## figgskzoo

cokex said:


> you should look through the treads, I have a picture of this bar on my bike.
> 
> -b


Might you know the stem angle of those Ness bars with integrated stem?


----------



## fab4

beston said:


> Cokex, or anyone else that has dealt with greatkeenbike.com. Did you get a tracking number after you placed your order?
> 
> After speaking with Ms. Hu, I ordered a set of handlebars 5 days ago and haven't heard anything since. I'm not worried about losing my money, but I just don't know what the typical process is.
> 
> Thanks


Lately their email response time has been slow. It use to be they will respond no later than 1 day. Now it takes them 3 to 5 days. Yes they will give you a tracking # if you request for it. They will ship either via EMS or Hong Kong Post. Insist on EMS because it's faster then HK Post.


----------



## fab4

vladvm said:


> Again as reference to those building the chinarello with cable guide issue, here's what I did.
> 
> Frame came with this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compare with original Pinarello cable guide FP7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the fix....Use candle and little bending and teflon housing. Works like a charm!


My RFM101 (Chinarello) front derailleur cable hole was drilled more to the right compared to yours Vladvm. I don't have to modify the cable guide on mine.


----------



## figgskzoo

JezBike said:


> ...photos I took of my DengFu FM028 build. I hope they are of some help to others looking at getting one of these...
> 
> Headset bottom bearing dimensions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Headset top bearing dimensions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bearing seat for the fork


Very informative post, JB. Thanks for the info and the pics. No more headset mystery whatsoever.


----------



## figgskzoo

bobonker said:


> Any users of the "Ness" bars have any feedback? How do you like them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Bob


I can't figure how to order these directly from the website. Does one need to contact GK directly to actually place an order?


----------



## tdawg183

WheresWaldo said:


> mine didn't either but I bought some cheap from here:
> 
> http://www.ebikestop.com/jagwire_indexed_cable_adjuster_black_50mm_od_bag10-BR4045.php?cat=438
> 
> That gave me 5 pairs so I have some extras for other bikes. Alligator has some anodized ones that are a bit fancier and cost a lot more too, you can get those here:
> 
> http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/21...Cables/Alligator-Barrel-Adjuster-w_Spring.htm
> 
> Links to all threads available in the first post!


I wish I had of realized this a little bit earlier as my bike is complete except for these two little little pieces. :mad2:


----------



## beston

figgskzoo said:


> I can't figure how to order these directly from the website. Does one need to contact GK directly to actually place an order?


You do have to contact MS. Hu for a price quote. The info is found on the contact section of GK.

Retail contact:
Ms.Hu E-mail: [email protected]
Recommend the PayPal as the payment for retail!


----------



## figgskzoo

beston said:


> You do have to contact MS. Hu for a price quote. The info is found on the contact section of GK.
> 
> Retail contact:
> Ms.Hu E-mail: [email protected]
> Recommend the PayPal as the payment for retail!



Got it...thanks. email sent. I'll keep y'all posted with pics of the build - should be over the next couple weeks.


----------



## Local Hero

I know this question has probably been asked and answered, but what are the experiences with TT frames, bars, et cetera? 

Who has the best prices? 

FM018? 


Would it be bad form for me to create a "Carbon Time Trial/Tri Frame From China" thread?


----------



## paterberg

Just a quick question. Can anyone confirm that ebay seller carbonzone and Deng Fu bikes are in fact one and the same? They certainly share the same postal address. Thanks.


----------



## acme54321

From what I understand Carbonzone is a middleman between Dengfu and you. I bet they just drop ship them from the factory.


----------



## Local Hero

Someone said that LBS don't build up these bikes. That someone was wrong. 

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/bik/2223726397.html

_CUSTOM MADE Frame/Fork. 
$1199 -is a FRAME/FORK + integrated Head Set !!! 
Custom Build and Paint, just assembled and ready for a ride Triathlon or TT Road Bike, 
Frame made, and custom paint, on the factory, that produce a CERVELO P3. 
Very light for Triathlon bike, 15,11 lb !!! /CERVELO and Dura Ace 7900 ==18lb/ 
Bike size fitting open list: morning, day, eve. 
For pics: www.5rcc.com /bike shop/ 

NO SHIPPING, PICK IN STORE, ONLY !!! NO EXCEPTIONS !!! _


http://www.5rcc.com/v08032010a/home/node/256



When I went into this shop he said, "This is a Pinarello" to me as I looked at his Chinarello. He puts "Edge" stickers on the wheels.


----------



## bobonker

Local Hero said:


> Someone said that LBS don't build up these bikes. That someone was wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I went into this shop he said, "This is a Pinarello" to me as I looked at his Chinarello. He puts "Edge" stickers on the wheels.



Looks like the Edge components are coming from here? Both shops are in the same area (Nor Cal).

http://edgedesignusa.com/products

Bob


----------



## flatlander_48

Local Hero said:


> When I went into this shop he said, "This is a Pinarello" to me as I looked at his Chinarello.


From their web site:


_"We are a full service bicycle shop. We have over 20 years of experience and are very thorough and honest in our work."_


I guess you can't believe everything you read...


----------



## beston

Local Hero said:


> Someone said that LBS don't build up these bikes. That someone was wrong.
> 
> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/bik/2223726397.html
> 
> _CUSTOM MADE Frame/Fork.
> $1199 -is a FRAME/FORK + integrated Head Set !!!
> Custom Build and Paint, just assembled and ready for a ride Triathlon or TT Road Bike,
> Frame made, and custom paint, on the factory, that produce a CERVELO P3.
> Very light for Triathlon bike, 15,11 lb !!! /CERVELO and Dura Ace 7900 ==18lb/
> Bike size fitting open list: morning, day, eve.
> For pics: www.5rcc.com /bike shop/
> 
> NO SHIPPING, PICK IN STORE, ONLY !!! NO EXCEPTIONS !!! _
> https://www.5rcc.com/v08032010a/home/node/256
> 
> When I went into this shop he said, "This is a Pinarello" to me as I looked at his Chinarello. He puts "Edge" stickers on the wheels.


It looks like he's also trying to go a little beyond just saying that it was built in the same factory as Cervelo. Does anybody want to buy a 'P3F' with the same paint scheme as a P3C?










vs.


----------



## christoph1980

Here is an update, and my first bike form Asia! Its an Karbon Neo TT vom Karbona Taiwan


Triathlonbike Neo TT









Update:


----------



## natbla

Which seller is the best source for the Chinarello frames with the wavy seat posts and similar fork? I can't seem to find any on ebay these days. Its the frame I want to find a way to purchase.


----------



## bobthib

Is it just me, or is anyone else a bit nervous about getting a super light carbon frame direct? I'd be afraid about crack and warranty. I'de be more inclined to go with a good quality Ti frame direct.


----------



## boleiro

bobthib said:


> Is it just me, or is anyone else a bit nervous about getting a super light carbon frame direct? I'd be afraid about crack and warranty. I'de be more inclined to go with a good quality Ti frame direct.


I'm sure everyone that has bought an asia direct carbon frame, or is researching a purchase, would answer yes. thats why this thread has been active for a long time. Its a great resource for those looking at these frames. I think many are taking this calculated risk as a chance to get a carbon fiber frame that would otherwise be out of their budget. I am sure that many, given the finances, would purchase a name brand over generic frame. 

But, if you go through this thread, you'll find that a lot of those purchasing these frames do not see a benefit or advantage to a name brand costing thousands more for a problematic warranty. And, no big name CF frame is without breaks (see bustedcarbon.com). Many have purchased and reported their findings from the purchase, the build and the ride. Now that this thread goes back over a year, many of the owners are reporting no issues after 3000+ miles. Those that have encountered problems have also posted fixes and such. Again, making this thread so useful. 

Me, I've only ridden steel for the last 20 years. I'm looking at these as a way to try out carbon without being so heavily invested. I don't even know if I will like the feel of carbon fiber, and don't want to spend 3K to find out 3 months later that I want my steel back.


----------



## PlatyPius

natbla said:


> Which seller is the best source for the Chinarello frames with the wavy seat posts and similar fork?* I can't seem to find any on ebay these days.* Its the frame I want to find a way to purchase.


That's because counterfeiting is illegal. eBay doesn't want to be mixed up with that.

The U.S. is reasonably strict about counterfeiting. The U.K. isn't. You can still buy them from eBay U.K. or order them direct from the <strike>counterfeiter</strike> manufacturer.


----------



## PlatyPius

Local Hero said:


> Someone said that LBS don't build up these bikes. That someone was wrong.
> 
> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/bik/2223726397.html
> 
> _CUSTOM MADE Frame/Fork.
> $1199 -is a FRAME/FORK + integrated Head Set !!!
> Custom Build and Paint, just assembled and ready for a ride Triathlon or TT Road Bike,
> Frame made, and custom paint, on the factory, that produce a CERVELO P3.
> Very light for Triathlon bike, 15,11 lb !!! /CERVELO and Dura Ace 7900 ==18lb/
> Bike size fitting open list: morning, day, eve.
> For pics: www.5rcc.com /bike shop/
> 
> NO SHIPPING, PICK IN STORE, ONLY !!! NO EXCEPTIONS !!! _
> 
> 
> http://www.5rcc.com/v08032010a/home/node/256
> 
> 
> 
> When I went into this shop he said, "This is a Pinarello" to me as I looked at his Chinarello. He puts "Edge" stickers on the wheels.


I believe I said something like "smaller shops" tend to not sell them due to liability concerns.

I looked at his website. They are some serious shysters. Selling fake crap, "Edge" components (to sucker in those who don't know that Edge is now Enve due to an international lawsuit over the name), and selling BD bikes (Windsor); probably at close to their advertised MSRP.

Slimeballs like that make the rest of us look bad.


----------



## slx01

In case anyone is thinking of buying the TT233 time trial bike Gotobike are no longer shipping to the UK! I emailed them last week and they said they were not permitted to sell the frame in the UK due to a 'monopoly agreement'.


----------



## thefutureofamerica

boleiro said:


> I'm sure everyone that has bought an asia direct carbon frame, or is researching a purchase, would answer yes. thats why this thread has been active for a long time. Its a great resource for those looking at these frames. I think many are taking this calculated risk as a chance to get a carbon fiber frame that would otherwise be out of their budget. I am sure that many, given the finances, would purchase a name brand over generic frame.


+1 - A teammate of mine has been waiting 9 months for a crash replacement from Cannondale, this being the 3rd supersix he will have bought in 2+ years, and going through one of the 2 or 3 biggest Cannondale dealers in the Midwest. AND, he's still going to pay way more for his crash replacement than I paid for my FM-015. Point being, warranties go to the back of the line with the big manufacturers, even for their very best customers. Maybe it's better if you buy a Calfee or a Parlee or something, but I could build up 2-3 custom-painted FM-015's for that price and just keep a spare ready.


----------



## vladvm

natbla said:


> Which seller is the best source for the Chinarello frames with the wavy seat posts and similar fork? I can't seem to find any on ebay these days. Its the frame I want to find a way to purchase.


On ebay start by searching "3k Carbon frame" then check their eBay rating. I bought my OEM from maniac_bicycle, but out of eBay to save more.


----------



## stevesbike

slx01 said:


> In case anyone is thinking of buying the TT233 time trial bike Gotobike are no longer shipping to the UK! I emailed them last week and they said they were not permitted to sell the frame in the UK due to a 'monopoly agreement'.


it's the same as the planet x, right? Just wait for the Ribble Ultra - an iterated version of the planet x exocet.


----------



## mrbubbles

slx01 said:


> In case anyone is thinking of buying the TT233 time trial bike Gotobike are no longer shipping to the UK! I emailed them last week and they said they were not permitted to sell the frame in the UK due to a 'monopoly agreement'.


Sounds like Gotobike is the direct supplier for Planet X's Exocet, try Sanming Wish Trade, they might be willing to ship it.


----------



## beston

mrbubbles said:


> Sounds like Gotobike is the direct supplier for Planet X's Exocet, try Sanming Wish Trade, they might be willing to ship it.


If I were to look into a TT frame at the moment, I think that I would prefer gotobike's WS01 over the Exocet.


----------



## Local Hero

christoph1980 said:


> Here is an update, and my first bike form Asia! Its an Karbon Neo TT vom Karbona Taiwan
> 
> 
> Triathlonbike Neo TT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Update:


Excellent work!

Can you talk a little about the Neo TT build? 

How did you decide on the Neo TT over Karbona's other TT models, such as the Monster Lite and Zonda?

What bars did you use? 

How much did everything cost?


----------



## Local Hero

PlatyPius said:


> That's because counterfeiting is illegal. eBay doesn't want to be mixed up with that.


How do you know ebay's motivations? Do you work for them? Can you provide a source to support what you said? Or are you speculating?


PlatyPius said:


> I looked at his website. They are some serious shysters. Selling fake crap, "Edge" components (to sucker in those who don't know that Edge is now Enve due to an international lawsuit over the name), and selling BD bikes (Windsor); probably at close to their advertised MSRP.
> 
> Slimeballs like that make the rest of us look bad.


Call the authorities!


----------



## FTR

Local Hero said:


> How do you know ebay's motivations? Do you work for them? Can you provide a source to support what you said? Or are you speculating? Call the authorities!


Please do not poke the bear. :cryin:


----------



## ColoRoadie

Local Hero said:


> How do you know ebay's motivations? Do you work for them? Can you provide a source to support what you said? Or are you speculating? Call the authorities!


Please don't get the voices in his head going again.


----------



## PlatyPius

Too late.

Local Zero woke me up.


----------



## skygodmatt

acme54321 said:


> From what I understand Carbonzone is a middleman between Dengfu and you. I bet they just drop ship them from the factory.


Yes. That is true. I spoke to Mina at Denfu. Her reply after I mentioned carbonzone is that " she is one of our best customers". So carbonzone is a she. My FM028 was shipped directly from Dengfu. I found this out after having a couple minor issues which were resolved satisfactorily.


----------



## slx01

beston said:


> If I were to look into a TT frame at the moment, I think that I would prefer gotobike's WS01 over the Exocet.


I did locate the frame eventually via ebay I guess it must be the planet x connection at gotobike. I was going to get a WS01 but wasn't that keen on the back brake which many purchasers seem to have problems with. The 'exocet' lookalike frame has been shipped and will keep you updated on its arrival. It actually cost £575 with fork and shipping Planet X are charging £900 without fork.


----------



## flatlander_48

natbla said:


> Which seller is the best source for the Chinarello frames with the *wavy seat posts* and similar fork? I can't seem to find any on ebay these days. Its the frame I want to find a way to purchase.


You mean Seat Stays (from the Seat to the Rear Axle). The Seat Tube is between the Seat and the Crank. The Chain Stays are between the Crank and the Rear Axle.


----------



## Coolhand

*Heads up*

Been defrauded? Read this:



> SHANGHAI – Chinese e-commerce giant Alibaba says two of its top executives are resigning to take responsibility after a probe discovered more than 2,000 suppliers had defrauded customers, sometimes with the alleged collusion of its sales staff.
> 
> Alibaba said in a notice Monday to the Hong Kong Stock Exchange that its chief executive and chief operating officers, who were not implicated by the investigation, were resigning to take responsibility for the company's "breakdown in integrity."
> 
> The company said 100 sales representatives, out of a total workforce of 14,000, allegedly involved in defrauding customers were fired. Some supervisors and sales managers had either intentionally or negligently allowed the creation of fraudulent "storefronts" by letting some 2,326 suppliers evade authentication and verification measures, it said.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110221...jA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yaWVzBHNsawN0b3BhbGliYWJhZXg-


----------



## DiegoMontoya

Coolhand said:


> Been defrauded? Read this:
> 
> 
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110221...jA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yaWVzBHNsawN0b3BhbGliYWJhZXg-


Good find. Have to be very careful through Alibaba, though I have dealt with one supplier in Taiwan who was very reputable. Even called me to make sure I got the package and was happy with the product.


----------



## cokex

Coolhand said:


> Been defrauded? Read this:
> 
> 
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110221...jA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yaWVzBHNsawN0b3BhbGliYWJhZXg-


Maybe now we can buy those $500 red groupo's .. heh

-b


----------



## Local Hero

Coolhand said:


> Been defrauded? Read this:
> 
> 
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110221...jA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yaWVzBHNsawN0b3BhbGliYWJhZXg-


While it's a shame that so many have been burned, I'm actually glad this is coming to the surface. 

This attention will no doubt lead to greater security, control and safety in the marketplace. There's too much money for fraudsters to screw this up for the legit companies. Better escrow and e-commerce is a win-win for consumers and suppliers.


----------



## christoph1980

Local Hero said:


> Excellent work!
> 
> Can you talk a little about the Neo TT build?
> 
> How did you decide on the Neo TT over Karbona's other TT models, such as the Monster Lite and Zonda?
> 
> What bars did you use?
> 
> How much did everything cost?


sure we can talk about it, ive decide to buy the neo tt because the frame looks better than the zonda oder the monster (just my personel opinion)

The bars are from profile design (but tuned 

i have payed aprox 450 dollar two years ago, but i know, that the Karbona have new prices! so i have decided to buy the next frames directly in china! the las price i have in my mind was aprox 620 dollar!

hope, i could help you, if you have more questions, let me know!!

Greetz Chris


----------



## volvo fatboy

Hi, I'm new to all of the Chinese frame self builds, and have been hanging about reading all the posts that I can. Now it is time to ask for advice!

I'm interested in the FM015 and the FM101 (Chinarello). I'm 5'6" with a 30" inseam. Currently riding a cannondale 51cm frame. I've tried a Wilier in a large, a Trek in 56cm and a real Pinarello in 51.5cm and the all fit well.

I've also looked at the FM015 cad drawings in a 53cm, which I think I could get away with. My current ride has a stack height of 570mm and reach of 400mm.

Has anyone built up a FM015 in a 53cm that they can confirm the standover height on?

And has anyone built a Chinarello in a 52cm or 54cm that they can confirm the standover height on?

Cheers


----------



## Local Hero

christoph1980 said:


> sure we can talk about it, ive decide to buy the neo tt because the frame looks better than the zonda oder the monster (just my personel opinion)
> 
> The bars are from profile design (but tuned
> 
> i have payed aprox 450 dollar two years ago, but i know, that the Karbona have new prices! so i have decided to buy the next frames directly in china! the las price i have in my mind was aprox 620 dollar!
> 
> hope, i could help you, if you have more questions, let me know!!
> 
> Greetz Chris


Thank you. It's a good looking rig.


----------



## petepeterson

ignoring the paint - this is the best looking TT frame I've seen out of china. 

https://carbon-products.en.alibaba.com/viewimg/picture.html?picture=https://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/344924925/Carbon_TT_frame.jpg


----------



## persondude27

That looks like the TT233. There's been a lot of chatter about it - primarily because it is the same mold as the Planet X Exocet. slx01 just said he spent £575, which I think is about USD 950.

Actually, slx, from whom did you buy? Someone said gotobike wasn't shipping to the UK because (sic) Planet X has a big market there.


----------



## boleiro

*I think I have a problem...*

I think its official now... I am obsessed with these asian CF frames. check out this commercial at 20 seconds in. Do you think? maybe? RFM101? I can't get these frames out of my head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wMBbl8s0vY


----------



## cokex

boleiro said:


> I think its official now... I am obsessed with these asian CF frames. check out this commercial at 20 seconds in. Do you think? maybe? RFM101? I can't get these frames out of my head.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wMBbl8s0vY



heh.. I've seen that and thought the same.. who knows, but just maybe..


----------



## ColoRoadie

boleiro said:


> I think its official now... I am obsessed with these asian CF frames. check out this commercial at 20 seconds in. Do you think? maybe? RFM101? I can't get these frames out of my head.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wMBbl8s0vY


Wavy fork, bump on the seat stays with no graphics.... Looks China-rific to me.


----------



## stevesbike

persondude27 said:


> That looks like the TT233. There's been a lot of chatter about it - primarily because it is the same mold as the Planet X Exocet. slx01 just said he spent £575, which I think is about USD 950.
> 
> Actually, slx, from whom did you buy? Someone said gotobike wasn't shipping to the UK because (sic) Planet X has a big market there.


one thing to be aware of re that frame is the tight tire clearances - 22mm tires max in rear


----------



## natbla

flatlander_48 said:


> You mean Seat Stays (from the Seat to the Rear Axle). The Seat Tube is between the Seat and the Crank. The Chain Stays are between the Crank and the Rear Axle.


Yes that was what I meant, the brain wasn't working well that night.Writing all day loong will do that to a person. That said, I'm still trying to find a good seller for that frame as ebay isn't showing anyone selling its. From further reading, it appears to be a FM101 frame or SFM101.


----------



## fyrefytr

*Tell me about your paint, please...*

I'm in the process of culling through these forums. Lots of good information and some really sharp looking bikes here! Those of you who have had custom paint done, from whatever supplier, how did you design your paint scheme and communicate it? Did you have a picture or a sketch? Did you use paint shop or something similar to design your idea? Are there a few colors to choose from or can they mix up anything you want? Did it seem cumbersome to communicate what you wanted? How long did it add to the delivery time and what was the approximate cost? Thanks for your help and keep posting those pics!


----------



## roepke

*Purchasing Soon - Questions....*

I have read these three MASSIVE 50+ posts threads, so I am pretty familiar with the framesets and resellers. I am waiting for the gal from Hongfu to respond to my email on Saturday. I'm going to purchase a 015 and matching forks, paint job, decals, and possible carbon wheels. Meanwhile, I have a few quick questions before I make the plunge.

1) Carbon wheels for aprox $600 sounds enticing, but not sure if they are ready for prime time. I have seen a couple posts with the HF carbon wheels in photos, but no posts that I could find regarding performance, reliability, build quality, longevity, etc. This is important, since I could just as easily plunk down the same on a set of Neuvations or Eastons and call it a day. If the HF (a.k.a. chinabike) carbon wheels are as good as the 015 framesets, then I'm likey to buy. There's just not alot of data out there from riders who have owned them who could attest to their quality (or lack thereof).

2) I have seen some earlier posts on thread #2 regarding components. For example HF has a brake caliper set. Anyone out there had the guts to try them? I have also seen posts on SRAM groups going for wicked prices, but are they too knockoffs? What about cranksets and FRs?

3) Paint and decals seem to be a big topic, but what is the procedure? Is this a "fly by the seat of your pants" sort of thing, or is there a software solution for this, such as visio or photoshop. What has been the proven and "sino-acceptible" format.

Since this thread is growing by leaps and bounds, it would be a great idea to setup a vendor section, specific to answers regarding wheels, accessories, painting, and reseller info. Looking for specific info is like searching for an needle in a haystack. The reading is great, and the bikes are awesome, providing great entertainment and ideas, but a means to find answers requires LOTS of reading. 

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## octapotamus

roepke said:


> I have also seen posts on SRAM groups going for wicked prices, but are they too knockoffs? .


Received my SRAM Red group from Yishun about 5 days after ordering. 

Genuine article, OEM parts (not meant for direct resale) which is naughty of Yishun but I feel I scored big time. Paid $1200. Any less than that I would be suspicious of. My one gripe is that there were two tiny but essential parts missing - the FD mounting bolt, and the Sram Powerlink for the chain was missing a half - still, sale of the century IMO.

If they're a verified and well documented/reviewed/posted seller, chances are their offerings are legit. I can only speak personally for Yishun thus far mind you, my frame has yet to appear from Archtek, though the 3-4 weeks I was told is nowhere near up. Will report on this down the line..


----------



## persondude27

roepke said:


> 1) Carbon wheels for aprox $600 sounds enticing, but not sure if they are ready for prime time. I have seen a couple posts with the HF carbon wheels in photos, but no posts that I could find regarding performance, reliability, build quality, longevity, etc. This is important, since I could just as easily plunk down the same on a set of Neuvations or Eastons and call it a day. If the HF (a.k.a. chinabike) carbon wheels are as good as the 015 framesets, then I'm likey to buy. There's just not alot of data out there from riders who have owned them who could attest to their quality (or lack thereof).


I read the Chinese Carbon Wheels Thread and did only find a few comments on longevity. I think the general consensus on build is that they are factory built but there are sometimes dishing issues. I do recall reading someone who said they "only" had 10-12,000km on their wheels. That seems like enough longevity for a $450 wheelset to me...


roepke said:


> 2) I have seen some earlier posts on thread #2 regarding components. For example HF has a brake caliper set. Anyone out there had the guts to try them? I have also seen posts on SRAM groups going for wicked prices, but are they too knockoffs? What about cranksets and FRs?


Not knockoffs, ripoffs. See the post a few up - a lot of sellers on Alibaba are actually trying to steal cash. See the Cervelos with Zipps for $1200.  Not real - but, some of the manufacturers can ship OEM equipment for a deal. The difference is how ridiculous. $400 for Red = not legit. $1200 for Red = legit.


----------



## figgskzoo

*odd problem, and off-topic...sorry*

anyone else having troubles seeing posts in this thread whn they are logged in? I can see every post when I'm not logged in, but when I'm logged in I get a nearly blank page (just a few header images) and 'Done' appears in IE's status bar. Already asked RBR admins for help...no reply. By the way, this only happens to me in this thread and a few others - most display just fine when I'm logged in.

Thanks and sorry for off-topic post.


----------



## cokex

figgskzoo said:


> anyone else having troubles seeing posts in this thread whn they are logged in? I can see every post when I'm not logged in, but when I'm logged in I get a nearly blank page (just a few header images) and 'Done' appears in IE's status bar. Already asked RBR admins for help...no reply. By the way, this only happens to me in this thread and a few others - most display just fine when I'm logged in.
> 
> Thanks and sorry for off-topic post.


Switch the display mode to linear up top


----------



## Jesserue

figgskzoo said:


> anyone else having troubles seeing posts in this thread whn they are logged in? I can see every post when I'm not logged in, but when I'm logged in I get a nearly blank page (just a few header images) and 'Done' appears in IE's status bar. Already asked RBR admins for help...no reply. By the way, this only happens to me in this thread and a few others - most display just fine when I'm logged in.
> 
> Thanks and sorry for off-topic post.


Try opening a different and smaller thread, click on Display Modes in upper right on page, select Linear Mode and then reopen the big thread, works for me.


----------



## octapotamus

figgskzoo said:


> IE's status bar..


IE.... lol


----------



## Muztard

figgskzoo said:


> anyone else having troubles seeing posts in this thread whn they are logged in? I can see every post when I'm not logged in, but when I'm logged in I get a nearly blank page (just a few header images) and 'Done' appears in IE's status bar. Already asked RBR admins for help...no reply. By the way, this only happens to me in this thread and a few others - most display just fine when I'm logged in.
> 
> Thanks and sorry for off-topic post.


If you have a Windows device don't spend your cash on new bike stuff, sell your Windows device and buy a Apple. Or install another browser, like Firefox:thumbsup:

Some of us are lucky enough to have a nice bike and a nice Mac


----------



## mattieoo

was looking through these posts for weeks! I have purchased the rfm101, headset, handlebars and seatpost from great keen. The communication was superb and i am just waiting for the finished products to arrive. I shall post pics. 

The only mistake i made was that currently i ride a 54cm frame but wanted something a tad smaller so ordered a 52 rfm101. I now realise i am going to basically end up with a 50cm frame due to the different measuring and im 5ft 8 :s


----------



## paterberg

skygodmatt said:


> Yes. That is true. I spoke to Mina at Denfu. Her reply after I mentioned carbonzone is that " she is one of our best customers". So carbonzone is a she. My FM028 was shipped directly from Dengfu. I found this out after having a couple minor issues which were resolved satisfactorily.


Interesting. I bought a frame and a wheelset from carbonzone on ebay in November and both boxes had the return address as Echo, 21# Garden City, Centre Town, Long Gang District, Shen Zhen etc which strangely enough is exactly the same as the contact address address on the Deng Fu website. I have a suspicion that Echo from carbonzone and Mina from Deng Fu may well be one and the same person with carbonzone on ebay being another vehicle for Deng Fu to sell their products.


----------



## smoothie_biker

Hello to all. I've been a long time lurker here especially on all 4 chinese carbon frame threads. I'm convinced and ready to take the plunge on Kuota variety:thumbsup: .

My question to all those who have bought from Miracle Trade, what is their compay paypal email (i.e. who did you pay to)? I am in contact with Mecy Lin and she gave me this email: [email protected] and Season Lan gave me this email: [email protected]. Do they have different paypal account depending on contact persons? Thanks.


----------



## smoothie_biker

roepke said:


> ........
> Since this thread is growing by leaps and bounds, it would be a great idea to setup a vendor section, specific to answers regarding wheels, accessories, painting, and reseller info. Looking for specific info is like searching for an needle in a haystack. The reading is great, and the bikes are awesome, providing great entertainment and ideas, but a means to find answers requires LOTS of reading.
> 
> Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.


I concur!!!


----------



## config

Muztard said:


> If you have to keep your Windows device don't spend your cash on new bike stuff, sell your Windows device and buy a Apple. Or install another browser, like Firefox:thumbsup:
> 
> Some of us are lucky enough to have a nice bike and a nice Mac


Spoken like a true bike snob. I believe the solution to this is to click on 'Display Modes' and switch to 'Linear Mode'


----------



## bobonker

Lets keep the mac/PC holy wars out of this thread, please.

I toyed with the idea of adding a set of "Ness" bars to my order from Great Keen Bike. Still on the fence about it, but I'm thinking I will wait until there is more feedback about them. I'm currently running Bontrager VR-C bars with Fizik gel under the tape and it's pretty comfortable.

Thanks,
Bob


----------



## ntb1001

Here are the pictures of the latest GreatKeen RFM101 Dogma. No issues at all with headset or cable hole alignment.
This bike is built with Campy Super Record. 
I found the parts on ebay, it was a lot cheaper buying the groupset on ebay than getting scammed by a shop.
I might try to buy a groupset from Yishin next time, I read the recent post by someone who bought a Sram Red groupset for only $1200.


----------



## Local Hero

ntb1001 said:


> Here are the pictures of the latest GreatKeen RFM101 Dogma. No issues at all with headset or cable hole alignment.
> This bike is built with Campy Super Record.
> I found the parts on ebay, it was a lot cheaper buying the groupset on ebay than getting scammed by a shop.
> I might try to buy a groupset from Yishin next time, I read the recent post by someone who bought a Sram Red groupset for only $1200.


Sexy.


----------



## bobonker

Nice job, ntb001! Are the bottle cages from Great Keen as well?

Bob


----------



## ntb1001

bobonker said:


> Nice job, ntb001! Are the bottle cages from Great Keen as well?
> 
> Bob



handlebars
handlebar stem
seatpost
bottle cages 

all from GeatKeen


----------



## DiegoMontoya

We need a new gruppo called SRAM Fred for all these fake Dogmas.


----------



## natbla

ntb1001 said:


> Here are the pictures of the latest GreatKeen RFM101 Dogma. No issues at all with headset or cable hole alignment.
> This bike is built with Campy Super Record.
> I found the parts on ebay, it was a lot cheaper buying the groupset on ebay than getting scammed by a shop.
> I might try to buy a groupset from Yishin next time, I read the recent post by someone who bought a Sram Red groupset for only $1200.


 

That looks great. I'm not sure I'll get my painted up like that but that's the frame set I just priced. What size frame is that and how big are you? I'm trying to figure out what size to order on that frame. I'm 5' 10 with 30" inseam, short torso. My current bike is an Iron Horse Excalibur size 54 and its a little too far of a stretch for me.


----------



## boleiro

*Torque Recommendations*

I've been following this thread for awhile now, and have assembled a lot of data on these frames. however, I can't recall any info herein regarding torque specs for these carbon frames. Specifically, the fork steerer, front derailleur and seat post. Is there a common torque spec for carbon parts in general? This will be my first carbon bike, so I really haven't had to deal with this issue before.


----------



## MX304

boleiro said:


> I've been following this thread for awhile now, and have assembled a lot of data on these frames. however, I can't recall any info herein regarding torque specs for these carbon frames. Specifically, the fork steerer, front derailleur and seat post. Is there a common torque spec for carbon parts in general? This will be my first carbon bike, so I really haven't had to deal with this issue before.


There is a good torque spec. guide on the park tool website.


----------



## stevesbike

boleiro said:


> I've been following this thread for awhile now, and have assembled a lot of data on these frames. however, I can't recall any info herein regarding torque specs for these carbon frames. Specifically, the fork steerer, front derailleur and seat post. Is there a common torque spec for carbon parts in general? This will be my first carbon bike, so I really haven't had to deal with this issue before.


buy carbon assembly paste and start with low torque settings (like 4 Nm for derailleur clamp, stem)


----------



## stevesbike

ntb1001 said:


> Here are the pictures of the latest GreatKeen RFM101 Dogma. No issues at all with headset or cable hole alignment.
> This bike is built with Campy Super Record.
> I found the parts on ebay, it was a lot cheaper buying the groupset on ebay than getting scammed by a shop.
> I might try to buy a groupset from Yishin next time, I read the recent post by someone who bought a Sram Red groupset for only $1200.


if you don't mind me asking, how tall are you - that looks small...


----------



## figgskzoo

Jesserue said:


> Try opening a different and smaller thread, click on Display Modes in upper right on page, select Linear Mode and then reopen the big thread, works for me.



This suggestion worked in my <s>sh1++ty, sub-par, waste of money, Windows-based,</s> IE browser.

Thanks a boat-load, Jesse!


----------



## ntb1001

stevesbike said:


> if you don't mind me asking, how tall are you - that looks small...



It is small, it's for my son. The frame is 48cm


----------



## providince

ntb1001 said:


> It is small, it's for my son. The frame is 48cm


Your sons bike has camy super record 11? Looking to adopt?


----------



## tuffguy1500

*Well, that was fast!*

Ordered my TT223 from gotobike 4 days ago, and it arrived today!! took a few pics with the wheels installed, that's an Open Pave 700x24c on the rear and there's plenty of room in there. Overall the bike looks pretty sweet in person, I'm still waiting for a few last minute parts to throw it all together, hoping to do a ride report sometime in the next week or two.


----------



## bobonker

natbla said:


> That looks great. I'm not sure I'll get my painted up like that but that's the frame set I just priced. What size frame is that and how big are you? I'm trying to figure out what size to order on that frame. I'm 5' 10 with 30" inseam, short torso. My current bike is an Iron Horse Excalibur size 54 and its a little too far of a stretch for me.


I'm 5'9" with a 32" inseam and I'd order the 56 because the top tube length (55cm) is close to that of my Madone (54cm) and the head tube length is about the same as the Madone (~152mm).

I have poor flexibility in my hips and lower back, so I'd most likely end up very hunched over on the 54.

If you have bike that fits well, find its dimensions and see what size more closely matches it.

Bob


----------



## fab4

boleiro said:


> I think its official now... I am obsessed with these asian CF frames. check out this commercial at 20 seconds in. Do you think? maybe? RFM101? I can't get these frames out of my head.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wMBbl8s0vY


I saw that BMW commercial during the Super Bowl and I was wondering myself wheather the bikes in the commercial are "Chinarellos".


----------



## wevergo

DiegoMontoya said:


> We need a new gruppo called SRAM Fred for all these fake Dogmas.


and another one (my first chinarello)
I have this one and the replica Dogma:


----------



## flatlander_48

boleiro said:


> I think its official now... *I am obsessed with these asian CF frames.* check out this commercial at 20 seconds in. Do you think? maybe? RFM101? *I can't get these frames out of my head.*
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wMBbl8s0vY


"I know a guy", he said quickly checking the landscape left, right and center, "who's as good as Dr. Phil, but a whole bunch cheaper. He works outta da trunk of his car, so his ovahead is next to nothin'. You'll find him out back of da pool hall, over on Thoid. Big guy, bald head. Can't miss 'em. Specializes in Collections, toilet clogs an' Framectomies. It's painless, no biggie... Ya shoulda had it done years ago..."


----------



## ntb1001

providince said:


> Your sons bike has camy super record 11? Looking to adopt?


I hear that from a lot of grown men at my kids races...


----------



## natbla

bobonker said:


> I'm 5'9" with a 32" inseam and I'd order the 56 because the top tube length (55cm) is close to that of my Madone (54cm) and the head tube length is about the same as the Madone (~152mm).
> 
> I have poor flexibility in my hips and lower back, so I'd most likely end up very hunched over on the 54.
> 
> If you have bike that fits well, find its dimensions and see what size more closely matches it.
> 
> Bob


That's the problem for me. On my current bike, I ended up with an 80 stem to keep from being straight armed. So I'm torn between a 52 which might be too small and require a tall seat post and a 54 that might be too long of a reach. BTW, who were you working with to do your purchase? I want to make sure I'm buying from the right greatkeen.


----------



## natbla

wevergo said:


> and another one (my first chinarello)
> I have this one and the replica Dogma:


Which frame number is the replica Dogma? This one is RFM101 right?


----------



## octapotamus

*Archtek delivery*



WheresWaldo said:


> To start it off, I want to say that while I did have a much longer wait buying from Archtek than those buying from DengFu, HongFu and GreatKeen I did get a good quality frame, well packed and not missing any items.


G'day Waldo,

I was looking through your posts trying to piece the story together but thought I'd just ask;

I've ordered the exact same frame (Archtek FM031(015), BB30, Size 55) and am wondering how long I should expect to wait having also been told the standard '3-4 weeks'.

How long did yours take to reach you in the end?

It's only been ten days now but I want to have an idea of what to expect, and a good plan of attack in mind if things get a little silly.. :aureola: 

ps how tall are you, and how do you find the fit?


----------



## wevergo

natbla said:


> Which frame number is the replica Dogma? This one is RFM101 right?


Frame number is 56cm.
Top tube is 55,9cm
Center/top is 56cm

http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/...-bike-frame-Bicycle-Frame-fork.html:thumbsup:


----------



## khsracer

Link did not work.


----------



## wevergo

khsracer said:


> Link did not work.


try this one:

http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/900790/210891525/Road-Bicycle-Frame.html


----------



## volvo fatboy

wevergo said:


> Frame number is 56cm.
> Top tube is 55,9cm
> Center/top is 56cm
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/...-bike-frame-Bicycle-Frame-fork.html:thumbsup:


@ Wevergo,

Can I ask, what BB you got for the Pinarello Prince and Dogma frames? 

Only I am looking at installing Sram Force or Red groupset, and don't know what to order. i.e GXP Team cups (English) or integral BB30 chainset.

Cheers


----------



## figgskzoo

MX304 said:


> Mine just cleared customs:
> 
> 
> Timing Site Status
> 2010-12-18 18:12:00 Posting
> 2010-12-18 18:13:00 LCYX Despatch from Sorting Center
> 2010-12-18 21:21:06 SHENZHEN  Arrival at Sorting Center
> 2010-12-18 22:37:08 SHENZHEN Despatch from Sorting Center
> 2010-12-21 03:09:00 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA USSFOA Arrival at Sorting Center
> 2010-12-21 03:10:00 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA USSFOA Handed over to Customs
> 2010-12-21 08:46:00 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA USSFOA Released from Customs


Which shipping company actually delivered this to your door? FedEx? UPS? DHL? Some other? Thanks!


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## wevergo

volvo fatboy said:


> @ Wevergo,
> 
> Can I ask, what BB you got for the Pinarello Prince and Dogma frames?
> 
> Only I am looking at installing Sram Force or Red groupset, and don't know what to order. i.e GXP Team cups (English) or integral BB30 chainset.
> 
> Cheers


you need *English Thread* BB.
It fits with Sram, Shimano, FSA etc.


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## wevergo

wevergo said:


> Replica from Speedy Li Store.
> Better photo.


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## Coolhand

*Moderators Note*

13 more posts until we kick off Version 5.0 of this thread! 

:thumbsup:


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## vladvm

wevergo said:


> you need *English Thread* BB.
> It fits with Sram, Shimano, FSA etc.


If buying on eBay, the listing will show if it has Italian or English BB. If buying directly, you can specify English or Italian treading, it just depends what tool they use to make the treads. Go for English since it is more common and more deals out there


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## vladvm

*Ride update*

I've started bike commuting daily, I'm still so amazed at how cheap i paid for this frame and how great it is. Still no complaints. By the way, the 3k carbon fiber finish looks so amazing in sunlight, especially after a nice wax!


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## Don Duende

vladvm said:


> I've started bike commuting daily, I'm still so amazed at how cheap i paid for this frame and how great it is. Still no complaints. By the way, the 3k carbon fiber finish looks so amazing in sunlight, especially after a nice wax!


vladvm

In your posts you say you got the frameset and components shipped for both $400 and $500. Which was it and can you give the specifics? I am getting closer to ordering a painted chinarello.


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## ms6073

figgskzoo said:


> Which shipping company actually delivered this to your door? FedEx? UPS? DHL? Some other? Thanks!


All the items I have ordered from DengFu were sent China Post and once it cleared customs in the US was delivered by the USPS which I am pretty certain regards such items the same as a domestic Express Mail package. Note that in all of the deliveries, a signature was required so I would advocate using a business shipping address to assure someone available to sign for the package during business hours.


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## Local Hero

tuffguy1500 said:


> Ordered my TT223 from gotobike 4 days ago, and it arrived today!! took a few pics with the wheels installed, that's an Open Pave 700x24c on the rear and there's plenty of room in there. Overall the bike looks pretty sweet in person, I'm still waiting for a few last minute parts to throw it all together, hoping to do a ride report sometime in the next week or two.


Excellent. I look forward to your ride report. 

How much was it? 
And shipping? 
Did you get a headset? 
How would you rate your transaction? 

Is the rear brake a high mount or low?


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## bobonker

natbla said:


> That's the problem for me. On my current bike, I ended up with an 80 stem to keep from being straight armed. So I'm torn between a 52 which might be too small and require a tall seat post and a 54 that might be too long of a reach. BTW, who were you working with to do your purchase? I want to make sure I'm buying from the right greatkeen.


I'm working with this company: http://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/cp.php?nowmenuid=12

Have you looked at the geometry charts for these frames? 

Based on your input, I'm guessing the 54 would be the better size for you. You could ride the 52 but the seat would be way up high and the bars would be very low in comparison. That's ok if you like to ride that way and your body is ok with it, too.  

Bob


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## natbla

bobonker said:


> I'm working with this company: http://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/cp.php?nowmenuid=12
> 
> Have you looked at the geometry charts for these frames?
> 
> Based on your input, I'm guessing the 54 would be the better size for you. You could ride the 52 but the seat would be way up high and the bars would be very low in comparison. That's ok if you like to ride that way and your body is ok with it, too.
> 
> Bob


Thanks, that's who I emailed. But I wan't sure I had the right one. It looks like the 54 is the one for sure. But the areo frame they are showing looks interesting too (RM106). I may have to ask what the price is for that one. Before I pull the trigger.


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## baldmanrunning

Coolhand said:


> 13 more posts until we kick off Version 5.0 of this thread!
> 
> :thumbsup:


Proving the point that this thread should actually be a sub-forum of its own.


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## slx01

tuffguy1500 said:


> Ordered my TT223 from gotobike 4 days ago, and it arrived today!! took a few pics with the wheels installed, that's an Open Pave 700x24c on the rear and there's plenty of room in there. Overall the bike looks pretty sweet in person, I'm still waiting for a few last minute parts to throw it all together, hoping to do a ride report sometime in the next week or two.


I got mine off ebay and cannot wait for it to arrive seeing you pics hs made me more excited, lol! It was posted on Monday but doesn't seen to have gone very far on the tracking but hopefully it should appear in the UK by the weekend.


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## natbla

*HAving trouble picking*

After looking at he GreatKeen site again, I'm torn between the RFM101 here

and the RFM106 here

Anyone purchase the RFM106 that can give a report on how it rides? 

If only I could afford both!


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## Local Hero

I agree that this needs its own subforum. 

Thread topics can include: 
Chinarello
TT Frames
Wheels
Other parts (seats, bars, etc)
Lightweight
....


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## baldmanrunning

Local Hero said:


> I agree that this needs its own subforum.
> 
> Thread topics can include:
> Chinarello
> TT Frames
> Wheels
> Other parts (seats, bars, etc)
> Lightweight
> ....


Experience with Manufacturers / Buying a Chinese Carbon Frame
Riding Chinese Carbon Frames
Pictures of your Chinese Carbon Builds

etc...


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## acme54321

+ eleventy billion on china getting its own forum


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## WheresWaldo

PlatyPius said:


> I believe I said something like "smaller shops" tend to not sell them due to liability concerns.
> 
> I looked at his website. They are some serious shysters. Selling fake crap, "Edge" components (to sucker in those who don't know that Edge is now Enve due to an international lawsuit over the name), and selling BD bikes (Windsor); probably at close to their advertised MSRP.
> 
> Slimeballs like that make the rest of us look bad.


You do realize that Edge (US) is now Enve (US) because there was already and Edge (EU) and another, different, Edge (Asia)? They needed to open up the EU market so they chose to change the name, cheaper for them, than to try to wrest the name from an existing EU company. As far as the components on the 5 Rings they are Edge (Asia) nowhere on their site do they mention Edge (US). Please pay attention before making assumptions about shystering (that is not really a word but it fits).


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## WheresWaldo

octapotamus said:


> G'day Waldo,
> 
> I was looking through your posts trying to piece the story together but thought I'd just ask;
> 
> I've ordered the exact same frame (Archtek FM031(015), BB30, Size 55) and am wondering how long I should expect to wait having also been told the standard '3-4 weeks'.
> 
> How long did yours take to reach you in the end?
> 
> It's only been ten days now but I want to have an idea of what to expect, and a good plan of attack in mind if things get a little silly.. :aureola:
> 
> ps how tall are you, and how do you find the fit?


Mine was considerably longer because I think I got one of the first BB30 Raw frames. I ended up waiting about 3.5 months, I also got some of the 20mm carbon rims from Archtek and they are simply beautiful. They were straight and round and tensioned up evenly, even with Soul Bikes Prodigy hubs they ended up at 1036 grams for the wheelset.


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## WheresWaldo

To those that want to make this it's own sub-forum, I truly believe that is a mistake and you will see these threads quickly die. Just look at the tandem forum as an example of the little traffic some sub-forums get. If it stays here you will get the wanderer as well as the naysayers, both accomplish the same thing with different agendas, they keep the topic active and on top of the listings, as well as providing discussion points of interest. If you separate it some of the complainers will just go away since they can't be bothered looking at "useless" forums (this is good) but you will also not attract very many new viewers since they will need to switch forums to view these "useful" threads (not so good). Besides if RBR started setting up forums for everyone that asks this board would be all forums and no posts! 

So, Coolhand, is this enough posts to start v5?


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## zender

I think having the Dengfu bikes under some name in the reviews section would be a plus. "Generic Chinese" or "Dengfu" or whatever and then it would be possible to post reviews of each frame. I think this has been brought up at least once in each iteration of the Chinese frame thread.


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## octapotamus

WheresWaldo said:


> Mine was considerably longer because I think I got one of the first BB30 Raw frames.


Cool man, thanks, I'll try to remain optimistic then. I guess such bargains come with additional cost in worry and uncertainty, thank jeebus for these threads :thumbsup:


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## vladvm

Don Duende said:


> vladvm
> 
> In your posts you say you got the frameset and components shipped for both $400 and $500. Which was it and can you give the specifics? I am getting closer to ordering a painted chinarello.


shipped $500 with the other components (seatpost/handlebar/cable stops/cages)


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## natbla

vladvm said:


> there are new chinarellos listing on ebay with italian thread.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.ca/Full-Carbon-3K-W...sure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item45f8a1e082


Any one know how to buy from ebay.ca with an ebay.com account?


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## fab4

natbla said:


> Any one know how to buy from ebay.ca with an ebay.com account?


Strange that seller went from ebay USA to ebay UK to now ebay Canada. Hmnn....


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## mrbubbles

fab4 said:


> Strange that seller went from ebay USA to ebay UK to now ebay Canada. Hmnn....


These sellers set their auction currency differently to allow for diverse currency fund pool. They would sell it in EURO, AUD, CAD, USD, or GBP. 

However, the location of how you see these items are different, depending on where you are from. See below. 

http://shop.ebay.ca/carbon_bicycle/m.html
http://shop.ebay.com/carbon_bicycle/m.html
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/carbon_bicycle/m.html
http://shop.ebay.com.au/carbon_bicycle/m.html


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## mrbubbles

natbla said:


> Any one know how to buy from ebay.ca with an ebay.com account?


That shouldn't be a problem, non?


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## cokex

http://cgi.ebay.com/STRADALLI-SRAM-...oad_Bikes&hash=item3f07756326#ht_30189wt_1032


Looks like someone got smart and is selling them complete ?


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## sand101

natbla said:


> Anyone purchase the RFM106 that can give a report on how it rides?


There have been two that I remember. Cokex had pictures maybe 10 pages back and one a bit longer ago. Maybe 3.0 thread.

I'd also like a ride report. Cokex evidently lives up north and was waiting for the thaw. Hopefully when he does ride he'll report in.

If memory serves someone got that frame and fork for $330, $15 for the headset, and $75 to ship. The carbon seatpost ($30) that someone got from there had an FSA paintjob on it. ;-) The handlebars look pretty good, too. I believe the integrated version was $50 and the integrated one was a good bit more.

At least one place does sell this retail: http://www.bicismendiz.com/castellano/galeria.asp?idbici=8&idseccion=157


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## tuffguy1500

> Excellent. I look forward to your ride report.
> 
> How much was it?
> And shipping?
> Did you get a headset?
> How would you rate your transaction?
> 
> Is the rear brake a high mount or low?


I paid $840usd, and of that, 140 was shipping. Shipping seemed expensive but it did arrive in only four days.

Yes, I did get a headset, and it seated without any issues, and feels pretty smooth. The bike is 40% assembled, I'm hoping it will be finished by tomorrow night. 

The brake mount is at the top of the seat stays, and can use a standard brake or the type that have the triangular mount (I've seen a few like this, but no clue what they are). 

I'd give the whole transaction a solid Awesome rating. I was talking to sales & technical support (had some q's about the cabling, pics, etc) at the same time via skype, and I had the original price sheet that they sent me. They were pretty awesome all in all, and I couldn't be happier. I did just find out today that I can't use it for collegiate racing since it will have aerobars on it, but since I bought it for ITT and Tris it's not a big deal.


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## Coolhand

Well done everyone! Off to Version 5.0! :thumbsup:


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