# Surly LHT v.s. Bruce Gordon BLT



## Fat & Hairy (Jan 9, 2008)

Hi, Looking to purchase my first touring bike. I come from a mountain bike background. Planning to use it for commuting and loaded touring. I'm narrowing choice down to a Surly LHT & Bruce Gordon BLT. Any opinions out there?


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## Scot_Gore (Jan 25, 2002)

Fat & Hairy said:


> Hi, Looking to purchase my first touring bike. I come from a mountain bike background. Planning to use it for commuting and loaded touring. I'm narrowing choice down to a Surly LHT & Bruce Gordon BLT. Any opinions out there?


If money is no object, buy the Gordon. 

But at $2,349 vs $1,095 the likely biggest deciding factor is choosing to part with more than twice the coin (not to mention you're not done at 2349 with the Gordon, you've got another couple of hundred or so depending where you live). 

As you would expect with a price delta like this, almost every component (but not all) on the Gordon is of a higher grade and quality than found on the LHT. If money is truely no obstacle, don't stop at the BLT, get a Rock N Road. 

Scot


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## bolandjd (Sep 12, 2008)

I have an LHT and love it. The build quality is oustanding. It rides like butter. I don't think you can beat the value for the money. A complete LHT with mostly XT compoents costs about half the BLT, which is mostly LX components. And IMHO, I much prefer the lugged crown fork on the LHT to the unicrown on the BLT. But, having said that, Bruce Gordon is pretty much the gold standard in touring bikes. And, their frames are made in America, whereas Surly's are made in Taiwan. I'm not sure that there's a quantifiable way to say that one bike is better than the other; I think either one would reliably and comfortably get you whereever you want to go 99% of the time. And the BLT probably has the advantage the 1% of the time you're trekking across the Eurasian stepp or some similar extreme endurance tour where the BLT's American-made hardiness will get you to the next yurt village while the LHT snaps on you. So in a nutshell, my opinion is if value for your hard earned bucks is most important - go with the Surly; if reputation and Made in the USA goodness is tops and cost is no problem - go with the Bruce Gordon.


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## Fat & Hairy (Jan 9, 2008)

One of the reasons I have started to look at the Bruce Gordon was that they are starting to make a version of the BLT frame in Taiwan so I would save some cash. They have a great reputation and I am sure they would guarantee frame quality. However, I own a Surly MTB that I love.


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## bolandjd (Sep 12, 2008)

Fat & Hairy said:


> One of the reasons I have started to look at the Bruce Gordon was that they are starting to make a version of the BLT frame in Taiwan so I would save some cash. They have a great reputation and I am sure they would guarantee frame quality. However, I own a Surly MTB that I love.


Your posting motivated me to check out Bruce Gordon's website to see what was new and I saw that. Looks like all they have right now is just the frame set, but maybe that's what you're looking for. But Bruce Gordon's Taiwanese frame set is still twice the price of the LHT frameset and almost as much as the complete LHT. I'd say, even if you're getting just the frameset, either spring for the American made BLT or get the LHT; otherwise all you're paying extra for is the name. And that fugly unicrown fork.


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## blakcloud (Apr 13, 2006)

The Bruce Gordon is $920 with front and rear racks. The racks alone are worth $190 for the rear and $165 for the front. So still more expensive than the Surly but not a bad value in my opinion. 

It is cheaper than his bike here
$14,500!! (Bottom of the page)


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## commutenow (Sep 26, 2004)

I have a 54cm lht with 26 inch wheels and I love it. I can not speak to the blt however I feel like the lht is very versital and outstanding. I know a person could buy many bikes that are far more beautiful, but give the lht a spin. The new tawian blt according to what I read will be coming as a complete bike in the near future. Post pictures when you get your bike.


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## roadfix (Jun 20, 2006)

I love my 26" wheeled LHT. I bought the frameset when they first became available and built her up with spare road & mtb parts I had laying around. My component mix is better than what Surly offers on their complete LHT build.


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## sulman (Jul 21, 2004)

[

Yep. I agree. I built my XT LHT for cheaper than the complete bike offered. The frameset offers a great value.


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

Probably hard to go wrong on this one. I'd go with the BLT if you can justify spending the extra cash.


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## bgcycles (Oct 1, 2006)

bolandjd said:


> Your posting motivated me to check out Bruce Gordon's website to see what was new and I saw that. Looks like all they have right now is just the frame set, but maybe that's what you're looking for. But Bruce Gordon's Taiwanese frame set is still twice the price of the LHT frameset and almost as much as the complete LHT. QUOTE]
> 
> Just to set the record straight - You are comparing "apples and oranges"
> The $925 price is for a frame and fork with my racks front and rear. The racks bought separately would be about $375. The LHT frameset is without racks.
> ...


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## mbaha (Jul 2, 2007)

bgcycles said:


> bolandjd said:
> 
> 
> > Your posting motivated me to check out Bruce Gordon's website to see what was new and I saw that. Looks like all they have right now is just the frame set, but maybe that's what you're looking for. But Bruce Gordon's Taiwanese frame set is still twice the price of the LHT frameset and almost as much as the complete LHT. QUOTE]
> ...


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## Scot_Gore (Jan 25, 2002)

bgcycles said:


> Regards,
> Bruce Gordon


Bruce,

Good to see you on the site. There's some good people and you are needed as well. Stick around and give advice. There's a "Show Me Your Rack" (not what you think) post that just went up this AM that I bet you've got some sage advice for. 

Scot Gore


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## bgcycles (Oct 1, 2006)

mbaha said:


> bgcycles said:
> 
> 
> > OK So your frame set is $925 + shipping with overpriced $375 rack then your fame and fork would be worth $550, not bad but but I doubt you would actually sell the just the frame and fork for $550 with out inflated rack.
> ...


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## rcnute (Dec 21, 2004)

mbaha said:


> bgcycles said:
> 
> 
> > OK So your frame set is $925 + shipping with overpriced $375 rack then your fame and fork would be worth $550, not bad but but I doubt you would actually sell the just the frame and fork for $550 with out inflated rack.
> ...


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## bolandjd (Sep 12, 2008)

Bruce, now that you've weighed in, I'll just back meekly into the corner; I'm sure you've forgotten more about bicycles than I'll ever know. Point taken on the "apples and oranges". However, excluding racks from the equation, your Taiwanese frameset still comes in a few hundred bucks higher than Surly's Taiwanese frameset and I suppose your complete bike will too. Is that just a factor of supply and demand, or is there something about your bike that makes it worth the premium, considering both are foreign made? Better design? Better factory? Better steel tubing? A little bike industry "inside baseball" is always interesting.


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## bgcycles (Oct 1, 2006)

bolandjd said:


> Bruce, now that you've weighed in, I'll just back meekly into the corner; I'm sure you've forgotten more about bicycles than I'll ever know. Point taken on the "apples and oranges". However, excluding racks from the equation, your Taiwanese frameset still comes in a few hundred bucks higher than Surly's Taiwanese frameset and I suppose your complete bike will too. Is that just a factor of supply and demand, or is there something about your bike that makes it worth the premium, considering both are foreign made? Better design? Better factory? Better steel tubing? A little bike industry "inside baseball" is always interesting.


This is somewhat hard to answer. 
First, I'm a small (one person) business - so I don't have the buying power of 
Quality Bicycle Products (QBP)- the marketer of Surly.
Second, I feel my design is better, based on my 35 years of designing and building what many people consider the best touring frames, racks, and panniers. Also, my frames will have 4130 plate steel dropouts that are "Computer Machined" - the eyelets will never break off, even under heavy loads. The tubing and specifications are the same as my Rock 'n Road Tour frames.
Third, they are the only touring frame that comes stock with "My Bruce Gordon Racks" made in my shop in California.

Regards,
Bruce Gordon


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

bolandjd said:


> Bruce, now that you've weighed in, I'll just back meekly into the corner; I'm sure you've forgotten more about bicycles than I'll ever know. Point taken on the "apples and oranges". However, excluding racks from the equation, your Taiwanese frameset still comes in a few hundred bucks higher than Surly's Taiwanese frameset and I suppose your complete bike will too. Is that just a factor of supply and demand, or is there something about your bike that makes it worth the premium, considering both are foreign made? Better design? Better factory? Better steel tubing? A little bike industry "inside baseball" is always interesting.


I've spent some time in Taiwan factories-there are a lot of things that go into their frame prices.

#1-A bigger player (that would be QBP) can negotiate a lot better price on any given product.

#2-Quality costs. For instance special dropouts require special set-ups and more expensive labor to get things right the first time.

#3-Quality Control costs. A large volume or smart frame buyer is either going to have their employee on site or pay a local rep to keep an eye on production quality. The more frames that are built in a production run the less per piece this on site QC will cost per unit.

#4-Shipping costs a lot. No doubt BG will not order enough frames to fill a container so the freight will be pretty costly. Likely QBP won't either but QBP can have their frames stuffed in a container full of other merchandise and pretty much get free freight for the frames. 

Bottom line, no question in my mind the the BG frames will be of somewhat better quality than the Surly for the very discerning buyer. I'd ride either one happily (and if I was in the market for a loaded touring bike I would consider buying the BG-BLT (OTOH knowing my tastes in frames I would likely bite the bullet and get a BG custom)).

It is your dough and I just can't see how you could go wrong with either bike.


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## bolandjd (Sep 12, 2008)

Thanks guys for the peak behind the curtain. Very informative.


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## Plum (Mar 27, 2005)

One other point to consider is that the BG frame appears to be setup for a 1" threaded stem. While perfectly functional and not an issue if you buy the completed frame, 1" stems are getting less commonly found.

I'm not even sure what headsets are commonly available for 1" threaded setups anymore, aside from a King or some other special order.

Perhaps not a deal breaker, but I like the wide availability of parts and relative interchangeability of 1 1/8" stuff, from mountain to road to road/mtn OS. Switching 1" threaded stems may be a little more of a hassle.

Plum


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## dfltroll (Nov 27, 2006)

1" headsets and stems are readily available through Velo Orange, Rivendell and Universal Cycles. It's not an issue.


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## bgcycles (Oct 1, 2006)

Plum said:


> One other point to consider is that the BG frame appears to be setup for a 1" threaded stem. While perfectly functional and not an issue if you buy the completed frame, 1" stems are getting less commonly found.
> 
> I'm not even sure what headsets are commonly available for 1" threaded setups anymore, aside from a King or some other special order.
> 
> ...


I will have 1" threadless forks available if that is what people want. They can be switched for the threaded one when buying the package for no charge. Also, I will be having some 
1" quill stems made by the same factory at a very affordable price.
Regards,
Bruce Gordon


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

I would much prefer a bike with a 1" quill stem.

Much, much, much!


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## dfltroll (Nov 27, 2006)

My friends, 1" headsets and quill stems are for mavericks. Threadless headsets and stems are the gotcha component of the mainstream bike component industry. Ultimately it's gotta be about job production and healthcare.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

dfltroll said:


> My friends, 1" headsets and quill stems are for mavericks. Threadless headsets and stems are the gotcha component of the mainstream bike component industry. Ultimately it's gotta be about job production and healthcare.




what about taxes?


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## dfltroll (Nov 27, 2006)

It's not a secret that threadless headsets are responsible for the sub prime mortgage crisis. As for taxes... Threadless headsets have voted for tax payer supported pork barrel projects and earmarks. As for myself, I told those threadless headsets "Thanks but no thanks".

Okay. I need to step away from the computer, stop drinking coffee, and go ride my bike.

That new BG bike looks great. Unfortunately I won't be getting one anytime soon as I have a new Rivendell AHH waiting to be built. I've got a Nitto quill stem arriving for it tomorrow.


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## roadfix (Jun 20, 2006)

I don't mind quill stems. I just wished they came with open face plates for ease of bar/stem swaps which I like to do frequently, especially on utility bikes. I know Salsa and Profile quill stems come with removable face plates. The only problem is, those stems are ugly, imo.


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## bolandjd (Sep 12, 2008)

The gotcha component? Huh? I realize that threadless lacks the adjustability and elegant appearance of quill stems and are basically a way for OEMs to save a buck by making only one fork to fit on every size frame, even though they are marketted as "stiffer" or whatever. But, they do work just fine. What makes them a gotcha component?


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## dfltroll (Nov 27, 2006)

I agree with you roadfix, many quill stems, and mavericks, are ugly. As for threadless headstes and stems being gotcha components... I'm not gonna answer your question. What I want to do is let the quill stems speak to the American people. You know their record, it speaks for itself.


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## bolandjd (Sep 12, 2008)

dfltroll said:


> I agree with you roadfix, many quill stems, and mavericks, are ugly. As for threadless headstes and stems being gotcha components... I'm not gonna answer your question. What I want to do is let the quill stems speak to the American people. You know their record, it speaks for itself.


Indeed. :idea: Joke's on me. I should probably read the newspaper every once in a while.


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## Applewave (Jul 28, 2006)

back to the OP's question: I can't speak to the BG frames, but my experience with the LHT has been nothing short of awesome. If you can afford a USA made frame, I'm sure the BG would be worth it. But don't discount the Surly just cause it's made elsewhere. Mine is straight as an arrow, very smartly designed, and has worked beautifully for me for over a year of 40 mile commutes on shitty southern Utah roads. By the way, the threadless stem only lacks adjustability if you trim the steering tube. Just stack some spacers on top of the stem, and you can move it up and down at will. If some racer ******** makes fun of you, just take solace in the fact that he will probably develop carpal tunnel from riding with his bars way too low just so others don't make fun of him.

Also: my LHT is not stock. I bought the frame and fork only. I transferred my Phil, Paul, Chris, and Thompson components. So if you're looking at the package deal LHT, I can't speak to that either. But I do love the frame so...


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

*A little late to the party but*

Sorry about bringing this back from the grave. Bruce Gordon has the BLT frame and fork on sale for $500. That's pretty much what a new LHT frame cost.


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## bwest (Aug 10, 2010)

Thanks for the heads up. Having seen the frames side by side, I can say the BLT's thicker dropouts and bigger chainstays def have my vote for the dollar in comparison to the LHT. And yeah, $500 is a deal.


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## bolandjd (Sep 12, 2008)

I think its fair to say that BLT is better deal relative to the LHT than it was four and half years ago when this thread started. Things change - what d'ya know? They are both still great bikes.


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