# A question about culture:



## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

You see the sweaty winner of each stage standing up on the podium, with two beautiful young women at his side. He raises his arms in the victory salute and then very politely kisses each girl on each cheek. What's going on here? Who are these two lovelies, how are they chosen, and why is this the standard congratulatory gesture in every European road race?

Any old timers out there know anything about where this quaint custom came from? No other sport has anything quite the same.


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## Speedi Pig (Apr 18, 2004)

I don't know where the custom comes with but maybe it has to do with offering up the prettiest girl in town to the champion of the day. I do know that for big events like the Tour and the Giro that the girls are professional models.


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## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

Fredrico said:


> You see the sweaty winner of each stage standing up on the podium, with two beautiful young women at his side. He raises his arms in the victory salute and then very politely kisses each girl on each cheek. What's going on here? Who are these two lovelies, how are they chosen, and why is this the standard congratulatory gesture in every European road race?
> 
> Any old timers out there know anything about where this quaint custom came from? No other sport has anything quite the same.


I assume you're primarily asking about the presence of the women, not the kiss on the cheek?


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

If it were me and I was a professional cyclist I wouldn't like it. The potential of spreading a cold or some other virus is too risky. 

I'd be washing my hands constantly and not letting anyone touch my food either.


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

heathb said:


> If it were me and I was a professional cyclist I wouldn't like it. The potential of spreading a cold or some other virus is too risky.
> 
> I'd be washing my hands constantly and not letting anyone touch my food either.


um... wow


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

heathb said:


> If it were me and I was a professional cyclist I wouldn't like it. The potential of spreading a cold or some other virus is too risky.
> 
> I'd be washing my hands constantly and not letting anyone touch my food either.


then you don't realize this is how cyclists find their wives - just ask George.


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

heathb said:


> If it were me and I was a professional cyclist I wouldn't like it. The potential of spreading a cold or some other virus is too risky.
> 
> I'd be washing my hands constantly and not letting anyone touch my food either.


There are some risk in life I'm willing to take


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

heathb said:


> If it were me and I was a professional cyclist I wouldn't like it. The potential of spreading a cold or some other virus is too risky.
> 
> I'd be washing my hands constantly and not letting anyone touch my food either.


you do realize this is often after riding 4-6 hours on wet roads where manure trucks have been leaking goodies the last few weeks right? 
And this is after 4-6 hours next to 200 guys blowing snot all over the place....


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## cmdrpiffle (Mar 28, 2006)

jd3 said:


> There are some risk in life I'm willing to take



Count me in this camp as well.......


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

Speedi Pig said:


> I don't know where the custom comes with but maybe it has to do with offering up the prettiest girl in town to the champion of the day. I do know that for big events like the Tour and the Giro that the girls are professional models.


So it recalls the good old day, when women were women and men were men, and the guy who rode strongest and won the race, gets a kiss from the fair maidens of the town, as if to say, "What a man!" Ah the sweetness of that sentiment! There's a certain openness about the gesture, an unrepressed sexuality, if highly ritualized. Nothing like it in football. The players slap each other on the ass, and the cheerleaders are a side show, playing to the crowd. :shocked:


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

heathb said:


> If it were me and I was a professional cyclist I wouldn't like it. The potential of spreading a cold or some other virus is too risky.
> 
> I'd be washing my hands constantly and not letting anyone touch my food either.



So THAT's the reason you didn't start this year.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*Sure, the kiss too.*



nate said:


> I assume you're primarily asking about the presence of the women, not the kiss on the cheek?


The whole routine. The champion cyclist of the day gets to smear 150 miles of sweat and grime on the two maidens, sweetly offering their freshly powdered cheeks, up their on the podium before the adulating crowd. What a rush!

I mean, after working his ass off, and by the grace of God and through superhuman effort he may have thought impossible, he is handed a bouquet of flowers, the very symbol of fertility or virility if you will, and gets a ritualized smootch with two of the town's star babes! What a life.

Actually, they hand flowers to the winner in tennis too, don't they?


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## Tugboat (Jul 17, 2006)

heathb said:


> If it were me and I was a professional cyclist I wouldn't like it. The potential of spreading a cold or some other virus is too risky.
> 
> I'd be washing my hands constantly and not letting anyone touch my food either.


You're not Cadel Evans are you?


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

heathb said:


> If it were me and I was a professional cyclist I wouldn't like it. The potential of spreading a cold or some other virus is too risky.
> 
> I'd be washing my hands constantly and not letting anyone touch my food either.


Back in the history of the Tour, there are stories about an arch rival mysteriously getting food poisoning before a critical stage, aside from the normal vagaries of the food preparation in the towns along the route.

But, heck, I'd figure the ladies would have more reservations about the contact than the rider.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

For years, I had my wife convinced that the daily winners and jersey wearers were expected to spend the night with the podium girls.


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## seeborough (Feb 3, 2004)

stevesbike said:


> then you don't realize this is how cyclists find their wives - just ask George.


Gotta win some races, though.

No podium = no girls to meet...


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

Creakyknees said:


> For years, I had my wife convinced that the daily winners and jersey wearers were expected to spend the night with the podium girls.


You a rogue, Creak! :yesnod: :thumbsup:


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

Yes the ladies are nice to look at. The problem is during a long stage race your immune system is being put under lots of stress. 

It would suck to do 16 days of racing and then catch something from someone. Lets say one of the ladies has a cold and you kiss her. It's dumb. 

When I'm getting ready for big races I won't eat out, I won't let anyone touch my food, I wash my hands constantly(I also work in the lab) and I don't touch my hand to my nose or eyes without washing my hands also. 

I haven't been sick in over 5 years since I started doing this. 

And I'm not the only one. I've read that some pros limit contact with other people as much as possible for this very reason. They won't even let their wives kiss them during this time.

The most I've ever done was a 3 day stage race and by the end of it I was completely wiped out. I can't imagine doing three weeks of racing and trying to keep from getting colds....ect.


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## function (Jun 20, 2008)

heathb said:


> If it were me and I was a professional cyclist I wouldn't like it. The potential of spreading a cold or some other virus is too risky.
> 
> I'd be washing my hands constantly and not letting anyone touch my food either.


:shocked: What happens when you go to a grocery store?


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

It's nauseating to me, but I'm a chick and I hate the whole, "Look at me! I won the girlies!" 

"Quaint" my arse.

But hey, how can I fault them? If I podiumed, I wouldn't mind being flanked by two virile Spaniards...


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*I see the irony.*



OldEndicottHiway said:


> It's nauseating to me, but I'm a chick and I hate the whole, "Look at me! I won the girlies!"
> 
> "Quaint" my arse.
> 
> But hey, how can I fault them? If I podiumed, I wouldn't mind being flanked by two virile Spaniards...


I meant "quaint" with an edge of sarcasm. I too thought the same thing you do, and marvel at how this tradition can live on with the big changes in the status of women, contrasted to 50 years ago. These ladies playing this role seem quaint because they're so out of date. And I wonder about the connection between winning bicycle races and sexual favors, the implied message. That seems quaint, too.

Dig those dark eyed Spaniards, eh? Come to think of it, don't they give bouquets of flowers to bull fighters after a match? Where are the women in this pagentry?


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> But hey, how can I fault them? If I podiumed, I wouldn't mind being flanked by two virile Spaniards...


If I ever won a sprint I would settle for no less than Tom Boonen as my podium boy. :thumbsup:


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

il sogno said:


> If I ever won a sprint I would settle for no less than Tom Boonen as my podium boy. :thumbsup:


LOL!  


I want Levi and Cancellara. And Sastre. And...

Hell I want the whole peloton as my podium boy. That's a lot of post race smooching.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> LOL!
> 
> 
> I want Levi and Cancellara. And Sastre. And...
> ...


I'll take Kloden on the other side. So that would be Boonen and Kloden for me. 

I'd have Oscar Pereiro as an alternate but he's out of the Tour.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

il sogno said:


> I'll take Kloden on the other side. So that would be Boonen and Kloden for me.
> 
> *I'd have Oscar Pereiro *as an alternate but he's out of the Tour.




Kloden is a great choice. :thumbsup: 

But the Spaniards are _mine._


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## Frith (Oct 3, 2002)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> It's nauseating to me, but I'm a chick and I hate the whole, "Look at me! I won the girlies!"
> 
> "Quaint" my arse.
> 
> But hey, how can I fault them? If I podiumed, I wouldn't mind being flanked by two virile Spaniards...



The moment podium girls become to unPC count me out of the sport... and perhaps life.


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## fuzz-tone (Sep 29, 2008)

heathb said:


> It would suck to do 16 days of racing and then catch something from someone. Lets say one of the ladies has a cold and you kiss her. It's dumb.


We all know how these models are... Maybe a podium girl did coke before kissing Tom Boonen, causing his positive tests!


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## Zipp0 (Aug 19, 2008)

Sorry ladies - so far the only podium dude has been Ben Stiller.


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## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

I think the pro tour racers (at least in the Grand Tours) who podium at the end of each stage quickly shower and change into a new kit before the podium ceremony, The riders definitely look like they're wearing clean, unwet jerseys on stage. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Zipp0 said:


> Sorry ladies - so far the only podium dude has been Ben Stiller.



I know.


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## tri-ac (Aug 4, 2008)

doesn't car racing have something similar in the US?


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## mendo (Apr 18, 2007)

Cheerleaders, ring card girls...


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*manly man answer*

It is cultural. Here is the US of A, we just say :

Baby, you seem to be hurtin for a squirtin and thus the camera view fades to black............


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## gregario (Nov 19, 2001)

heathb said:


> If it were me and I was a professional cyclist I wouldn't like it. The potential of spreading a cold or some other virus is too risky.
> 
> I'd be washing my hands constantly and not letting anyone touch my food either.



NTTAWWT


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## mmoose (Apr 2, 2004)

ping771 said:


> I think the pro tour racers (at least in the Grand Tours) who podium at the end of each stage quickly shower and change into a new kit before the podium ceremony, The riders definitely look like they're wearing clean, unwet jerseys on stage. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


At the very least, water and a towel for a quick rinse off. Then throw on a new jersey. Seen this after many a stages finish. Better for the sponsor and everyone involved.

That certainly cuts into the sweaty smelly ick factor. For those concerned with germs, well, they everywhere...good luck with that.


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## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

Fredrico said:


> The whole routine. The champion cyclist of the day gets to smear 150 miles of sweat and grime on the two maidens, sweetly offering their freshly powdered cheeks, up their on the podium before the adulating crowd. What a rush!
> 
> I mean, after working his ass off, and by the grace of God and through superhuman effort he may have thought impossible, he is handed a bouquet of flowers, the very symbol of fertility or virility if you will, and gets a ritualized smootch with two of the town's star babes! What a life.
> 
> Actually, they hand flowers to the winner in tennis too, don't they?


The kissing part is not at all unusual unless France has changed a lot since I was there years ago. Cheek kissing is perfectly normal in many situations. It is also common in other places besides France. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheek_kiss

It would actually seem more unusual to me if they did not kiss, but maybe a someone like Philippe could give us the actual standards these days.


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

heathb said:


> Yes the ladies are nice to look at. The problem is during a long stage race your immune system is being put under lots of stress.
> 
> It would suck to do 16 days of racing and then catch something from someone. Lets say one of the ladies has a cold and you kiss her. It's dumb.
> 
> ...


I am not sure what to say but wow you may need to seek professional help, therapy can really help folks.


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

nate said:


> The kissing part is not at all unusual unless France has changed a lot since I was there years ago. Cheek kissing is perfectly normal in many situations. It is also common in other places besides France. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheek_kiss
> 
> It would actually seem more unusual to me if they did not kiss, but maybe a someone like Philippe could give us the actual standards these days.


Cheek kissing (<i>se donner la bise</i>) is a wholly integral part of life here. It is how we say hello to family, women, amongst women and amongst close male friends. It is the same in Italy and other latin countries. It is also what we do when awards or public thanks and recognition is given. What is more difficult to keep track of is how many kisses are given as that depends on the region (2,3 or 4 ... never one).

I greet all of my family (men and women), female friends and co-workers this way. I also give the <i> bise</i> to close male friends. 

I think that life would be much less convivial if we didn't have the <i>bise</i>.

.... and I too have not been sick for ages.

Just to show how strong cultural formatting can be, parents giving children kisses on the lips gives me the heebie-jeebies -- and is completely unappropriate behaviour here in France among family members although I see many of my US friends do this.... go figure?


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> It's nauseating to me, but I'm a chick and I hate the whole, "Look at me! I won the girlies!"
> 
> "Quaint" my arse.
> 
> But hey, how can I fault them? If I podiumed, I wouldn't mind being flanked by two virile Spaniards...





il sogno said:


> I'll take Kloden on the other side. So that would be Boonen and Kloden for me.
> 
> I'd have Oscar Pereiro as an alternate but he's out of the Tour.





OldEndicottHiway said:


> LOL!
> 
> 
> I want Levi and Cancellara. And Sastre. And...
> ...



Ok ladies, I'm calling your BS on this. Which way is it gonna be?

I don't see anything wrong with acknowledging the obvious: just about everything that men do is in order to get wimminz.


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## MikeBiker (Mar 9, 2003)

I'm will to make a sacrifice and offer myself up as a podium boy for all you female winners.


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## identifiler (Dec 24, 2005)

Unfortunately, Oscar is gonna retire... class act IMO.

I don't see the problem, have anyone seen the skanks at car races ???? The podium girls are dressed very classy, the kiss is just a polite gesture. You will also notice that a 65 year old french mayoress also tries to get a kiss now and then after the podium...

At work I kiss my co workers, I know this is an issue because when I have north american meetings, the girls come over and kiss me and my male co-workers find that questionnable... question of culture I guess.

Reguarding the girls anf microbes and virus, I am sure they are removed if they are sick, the girls actually travel with the caravan. There are extras. The racers wash before podium. I'd rather kiss than shake a hand, reguardless, the biggest issue is of all things, bottle poisonning. It is documented that during the Paris Roubais, there is so much cowshit on the road, you are garanteed stomach flu. Same goes ona rainy day.

As a microbiologist I know I can touch **** and stay sterile if I don't smear it. People have very little consciousness about infection transfer. The keyboard you touch is packed with gersm, so is your phone, so is you steering wheel... it's endless, it's also well know fact that people who live in non sterile environement have a better immune system and lesser asthma potential... A kid raised on raw milk as much better immune system, proven fact.

Quite frankly, if I were a podium girl, I'd be more worried with Nocentini's herpes or his booger scrapper under the bottom lip...


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

philippec said:


> Cheek kissing (<i>se donner la bise</i>) is a wholly integral part of life here.
> Just to show how strong cultural formatting can be, parents giving children kisses on the lips gives me the heebie-jeebies -- and is completely unappropriate behaviour here in France among family members although I see many of my US friends do this.... go figure?


When I was staying over there with BF and family, I never could get quite used to it. It became a bit less awkward over time but still never seemed the "normal thing to do."

It felt similar to trying to write with my left hand, when I've been right handed my whole life.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

I've seen podium girls brush their hands rather obviously on the crotch of riders like Mario Cipollini when putting his leaders jersey on. They seemed to be paying very close attention to the zipper at the bottom. 

Maybe some of the ladies on here can tell us why.


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## Time2ride (Apr 12, 2009)

heathb said:


> If it were me and I was a professional cyclist I wouldn't like it. The potential of spreading a cold or some other virus is too risky.
> 
> I'd be washing my hands constantly and not letting anyone touch my food either.


I don't think you have to worry about that because if you watch closely, they are not kissing but touching cheek to cheek and more or less kissing the air.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

heathb said:


> I've seen podium girls brush their hands rather obviously on the crotch of riders like Mario Cipollini when putting his leaders jersey on. They seemed to be paying very close attention to the zipper at the bottom.
> 
> Maybe some of the ladies on here can tell us why.



Perhaps it's what you _wanted_ to see? 

Guys place waaayyyy too much importance on their packages.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

MikeBiker said:


> I'm will to make a sacrifice and offer myself up as a podium boy for all you female winners.



8x10 glossy required for all applicant submissions.


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## TmaxR (Aug 31, 2008)

8x10 glossies are so yesterday. How about a nice .jpg? Here's my mug shot:


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## lancezneighbor (May 4, 2002)

nate said:


> The kissing part is not at all unusual unless France has changed a lot since I was there years ago. Cheek kissing is perfectly normal in many situations. It is also common in other places besides France. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheek_kiss
> 
> It would actually seem more unusual to me if they did not kiss, but maybe a someone like Philippe could give us the actual standards these days.


I got married in Brazil, I was kissed a thousand (my best estimate) times at the reception.


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## TedH (Jan 1, 1970)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> When I was staying over there with BF and family, I never could get quite used to it. It became a bit less awkward over time but still never seemed the "normal thing to do."
> 
> It felt similar to trying to write with my left hand, when I've been right handed my whole life.


To me, I think the better translation to English is not kiss, but embrace. You should not be planting lips on their cheeks (rookie move), but embracing cheeks. Kiss has a sexual overtone to we Americans for some silly reason, but what happens in Europe and much of the rest of the world other than Asia and the US really, is an embrace. I embrace most of my European female colleagues when I see them (3x for the Belgians and Swiss). They are embracing and welcoming you, not getting busy.

My in-laws are Russian and this is an integrated part of the culture and I find them some of the warmest people I've ever met.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*Embrace, yeah.*



TedH said:


> To me, I think the better translation to English is not kiss, but embrace. You should not be planting lips on their cheeks (rookie move), but embracing cheeks. Kiss has a sexual overtone to we Americans for some silly reason, but what happens in Europe and much of the rest of the world other than Asia and the US really, is an embrace. I embrace most of my European female colleagues when I see them (3x for the Belgians and Swiss). They are embracing and welcoming you, not getting busy.
> 
> My in-laws are Russian and this is an integrated part of the culture and I find them some of the warmest people I've ever met.


That's it, not a kiss per se, but an embrace, cheek to cheek. Americans have a residual Puritanical guilt about physical contact when greeting each other, but it seems to be fast disappearing. Embracing is, literally, the warmest way to say to someone, "You're all right." It denotes a little more committment than a handshake, but handshakes and high fives are ok, too.


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## identifiler (Dec 24, 2005)

Just an FYI folks, don't mix up girls you might see on eurosport and TV5 with RAI. Italian TV is much akin to Italian politics, Kazak TV is probably more respectable to Italian TV. The Italian women on TV may look fine ona screen but are just covered in gloss, bad makeup and cheap perfum compared to the Italian women of the street. Itès mostly made for German viewership I think...


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## cyclejim (Mar 31, 2004)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> 8x10 glossy required for all applicant submissions.


 :thumbsup:


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## cyclelogic72 (Dec 1, 2006)

*Think the podium is the place to be? Um, no...*

I agree that the whole notion of 'podium girls' seems years behind the times, but lest one think only the stage winners are shmoozing with the numerous attractive members of the Tour 'support staff', much more happens *before* the stage start. Exhibits A and B:


View attachment 171590


View attachment 171591


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