# Eddy Merckx Team SC or Race HELP..



## Mosovich

Okay guys, give me some feedback and photos of your Eddy Merckx Team SC or Race bikes. I'm trying to make a decision here and can't, so I need a little help.

Thanks!


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## PDex

*Check here (1st pic in ride report)*

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=16685

Not the greatest photo, but you get the idea. It is the most comfortable, best riding bike I have ever ridden.


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## Henry Chinaski

Have you seen the new "Racing"? That's what I'd get... and I'd love a compact one. 

http://www.gitabike.com/cgi-bin/sho....exm&template=em_sr2.htm&0_option=1&0=em-rcng


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## Mosovich

*Comfort and alumium*



Henry Chinaski said:


> Have you seen the new "Racing"? That's what I'd get... and I'd love a compact one.
> 
> http://www.gitabike.com/cgi-bin/sho....exm&template=em_sr2.htm&0_option=1&0=em-rcng



I'm wanting some type of carbon in the rear to soften the ride. Racing has no carbon except for fork. Thanks though.


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## Mosovich

*Frame size etc.*



PDex said:


> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=16685
> 
> Not the greatest photo, but you get the idea. It is the most comfortable, best riding bike I have ever ridden.


What is your frame size? I'm thinking I need a 55. Give me some more feedback on the frame. Is it light? Do many rough road rides, ex: tar and gravel? Please tell me more! Is it outfitted with Campy Record?


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## Henry Chinaski

Mosovich said:


> I'm wanting some type of carbon in the rear to soften the ride. Racing has no carbon except for fork. Thanks though.


I can't see how carbon will soften the ride in back. I think it's more of a gimmick but I'm sure others will differ. Merckx bikes have longish c-stays which keeps 'em pretty comfy.


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## Florentine Pogen

*I have a team sc*

It is not carbon in the rear just carbon wrapped.
I guess it looks cool, absorbs shock or something.
I know it does protect frame from chain hits and rocks.
I have seen some of these newer Al frames dent on the chainstays.
I would like to think that the carbon will protect it.
I hear it does not matter that and they were going to do away with it.
I am pretty sure the new ones are just all aluminum now.
I think it is a very pricey frame for what you get.
I like it and it is nice. It is light and rides very well.
It just cost too damn much. To tell you the truth!
I really like my Litespeed classic that I just got on ebay.
It was under 800 frame fork and headset.
I built it up with chorus.I ride that bike everyday.

Anyways, they say Sc tubing can be much thinner than normal Al tubing.
It wont crack at the welds because it bonds.
I dont really know it is just what I hear.
This can make it ride like more like a Steel bike.

It is hard for me to really compare it to other Al bikes because I have only ridden Ti and steel modern bikes.

Here are my facts I know about the bike.

Light.
Pretty.
If paid about about 200 dollars for every eddy merckx decal on the bike then I got the frame fork and headset for free!
Rides sweet.
$$$$$$
Blue.
Compact so my seatpost is Jacckkeedd uuppp!
Nice long headtube so I dont need alot of spacers.
fits me better than any bike I have ever ridden (I think this is the most important thing).
I will not sell this bike.


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## Tig

My team has been sponsored by Merckx and Gita for the last few years. Last year, most riders went with the Race ('04) but have since regretted it. They ride a little smoother than the Team SC (yes, carbon seat stays really do make a difference, no matter what those who have never owned or ridden them will tell you), weigh a little more, and don't have the incredible blast out of corners, climbs, and sprints as the SC with it's stiff bottom bracket. 

Still, most were very happy with their Race frames, until... The protective clear coat at the wishbone section of the carbon seat stays started delaminating. It started right before the 1 year warranty was up, but no one saw it as a problem until it was too late. I don't know who supplied the seat stay, but their choice of material to finish it was very poor. Now, they are past warranty and the owners are stuck without much hope. I've seen one of the Race's completely shear the right chain stay at the edge of the chain guard peice, about 3 cm from the bottom bracket. I haven't hear if they redesigned the seat stay for '05 yet, so you'll have to check that out. I own an '03 Fuga, which is the Race's predecessor, but it has no such problems and is an excellent race bike.

If I were to choose a Merckx, it would be the Team SC. Get past the super light weight and you have one of the best aluminum racing frames ever made. The scandium alloy makes for a rare blend of qualities not common in aluminum frames. It keeps all the desired bottom bracket stiffness and somehow adds a supple ride. Not as smooth as the Race, but not nearly as harsh as a C'dale CADD 5/6/7. It has the exact geometry as other Merckx frames. This keeps it from getting twitchy, but it can still handle tight and twisty crit's without much of a problem. It shines on descents and climbs. This race bike rides like a dream. The guys who own Team SC's can't say enough about them. Of the 6 I have built up or sold in the last 2 years, none have had any failures except for a cracked fork from a nasty crash that broke a few bones. 

Important note about sizing on standard geometries: These bikes run *big*. I usually ride a 52, but their 52 is like a 54. The head tubes are really tall. Compact sizes are easier to choose a size without a test ride. Not many, if any, dealers have a complete size selection to test ride. Also, be sure they have started to clear coat over the decals this year.

I hope this helps.


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## Mosovich

*Size?*

Thanks for the info. FIT is what I'm having problems with! Other manufactuers use such short head tubes and that's the one thing I like about the Merckx. What size is your frame & what are your demensions? ex. height, inseam?

Thanks!!


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## Florentine Pogen

*I am different.*

I have a long torso and long arms.
I also like to have my seat forward more.
I use posts without setback.
This puts the seat on rails far back to get proper kop esp. on my MTB.
The Merckx is 72.5 so with a Thompson post my seat is right in the middle!
I am 6ft tall.
My Merckx is a 57 TT, It is a 51 I think.
Tig is on the money with the stiffness thing.
When I first got this bike the rear wheel would hop up when I started sprinting because I was not used to a light bikes or something stiff(?)not sure why, but it does not happen now .
One of the guys I ride with said he could not believe how fast I left when I started to sprint. I am light I weight 150lbs. I dont feel anything moving around. I only feel faster acceleration when I ride this bike.


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## Roger H

*Best bike I've ever owned (so far)*

I went through A DeRosa Planet, a Look (381), two Litespeeds (Ultimate and Vortex), and a Ciocc Challenger before I got the Team SC. They were all nice bikes, but for me, the Merckx has the best combination of handling, looks, and ride quality of them all.


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## MerckxMad

*King Eddy is Da Bomb*

I own a 2002 Team SC (the last year EM put the little devil decals on the fork) and 2002 Fuga n/k/a Race. I'm 5' 10" and after several fit sessions and several different frames over the years I've discovered that Merckx Century Geometry 54 cm is the best off-the-peg fit for me (high HT and shortish TT). With the exception of the new carbon models, I have a full stable of nearly every road bike model EM made between '00 and '04. I think the Team SC is just a blast to ride. It feels fast and responsive, but is a bit unforgiving if you don't pay attention in and out of corners at speed. I liken it to CAAD frames that I've ridden, but with a better fit for me. On rough pavement, the SC can rattle your fillings out. I also had a bit of trouble with the headset binding, but I think they've worked that kink out. The carbon wrapped chainstays are kind of dopey and don't affect the ride at all. I love my Fuga and find it more comfortable than the SC. It's not as high strung as the SC, but it's a great crit bike. Low BB's on EM models always provide for a sketchy crit experience, but I've never had a problem with the Fuga. As for choosing between the two, it's sort of like choosing espresso (SC) versus good 'ol diner coffee (Fuga). I hope these ramblings help. Good luck!


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## Mosovich

*Corners..*



MerckxMad said:


> I own a 2002 Team SC (the last year EM put the little devil decals on the fork) and 2002 Fuga n/k/a Race. I'm 5' 10" and after several fit sessions and several different frames over the years I've discovered that Merckx Century Geometry 54 cm is the best off-the-peg fit for me (high HT and shortish TT). With the exception of the new carbon models, I have a full stable of nearly every road bike model EM made between '00 and '04. I think the Team SC is just a blast to ride. It feels fast and responsive, but is a bit unforgiving if you don't pay attention in and out of corners at speed. I liken it to CAAD frames that I've ridden, but with a better fit for me. On rough pavement, the SC can rattle your fillings out. I also had a bit of trouble with the headset binding, but I think they've worked that kink out. The carbon wrapped chainstays are kind of dopey and don't affect the ride at all. I love my Fuga and find it more comfortable than the SC. It's not as high strung as the SC, but it's a great crit bike. Low BB's on EM models always provide for a sketchy crit experience, but I've never had a problem with the Fuga. As for choosing between the two, it's sort of like choosing espresso (SC) versus good 'ol diner coffee (Fuga). I hope these ramblings help. Good luck!



Please elaborate on not being forgiving out of corners. Are you saying it doesn't corner well in crits, yet it doesn on decents? Please post a couple of pics of your SC and Fuga.


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## AlexCad5

MerckxMad said:


> I own a 2002 Team SC (the last year EM put the little devil decals on the fork) and 2002 Fuga n/k/a Race. I'm 5' 10" and after several fit sessions and several different frames over the years I've discovered that Merckx Century Geometry 54 cm is the best off-the-peg fit for me (high HT and shortish TT). With the exception of the new carbon models, I have a full stable of nearly every road bike model EM made between '00 and '04. I think the Team SC is just a blast to ride. It feels fast and responsive, but is a bit unforgiving if you don't pay attention in and out of corners at speed. I liken it to CAAD frames that I've ridden, but with a better fit for me. On rough pavement, the SC can rattle your fillings out. I also had a bit of trouble with the headset binding, but I think they've worked that kink out. The carbon wrapped chainstays are kind of dopey and don't affect the ride at all. I love my Fuga and find it more comfortable than the SC. It's not as high strung as the SC, but it's a great crit bike. Low BB's on EM models always provide for a sketchy crit experience, but I've never had a problem with the Fuga. As for choosing between the two, it's sort of like choosing espresso (SC) versus good 'ol diner coffee (Fuga). I hope these ramblings help. Good luck!


 That was really excellent. Truely, no sarcasim. Now, every review (all incomplete) of Merckx frames mention the meticulous geometery, yet they never say how so. Has this just become a journalistic shortcut, or is there something to it? Having a Cad 5, I have a better picture of the ride, moreover the extreme manoverability and lack of flex in climbs and sprints. Anyway, I really enjoyed reading this post.


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## Roger H

*Lower bottom bracket?*

I'm not sure, but seems I read somewhere that the Merckx has a slightly lower bottom 
bracket making it perhaps a bit less suitable for the tight corners typical of criteriums.


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## Henry Chinaski

Mosovich said:


> Please elaborate on not being forgiving out of corners. Are you saying it doesn't corner well in crits, yet it doesn on decents? Please post a couple of pics of your SC and Fuga.


Low bb just mean you might whack your pedals if you pedal through corners in crits. Makes for a slightly more stable bike, though. Merckx has a lower bb, longer c-stays, longer wheelbase and more relaxed seat tube that your average race bike.


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## MerckxMad

*Not really sure*



AlexCad5 said:


> That was really excellent. Truely, no sarcasim. Now, every review (all incomplete) of Merckx frames mention the meticulous geometery, yet they never say how so. Has this just become a journalistic shortcut, or is there something to it? Having a Cad 5, I have a better picture of the ride, moreover the extreme manoverability and lack of flex in climbs and sprints. Anyway, I really enjoyed reading this post.


I don't think Merckx Century Geometry is anything special. Most of their frame sizes match up with other manufacturers' geometry charts. Compared to other bikes that I have (Dale, LS, Giant), I find that the HT is slightly longer and that the TT's are slightly shorter. This gives my aging and ever increasing portly body a more comfortable ride. The chainstays on the SC are longer. This coupled with the geometry might soften the ride on the scandium frame, which I still find rough on bad roads. Its amazing that the pros won P-R on this bike two years in a row.


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## j-son

merckx bikes, first and foremost, handle like racing bikes are meant to handle. that's the point, and that's why you should get a merckx. who cares about seat tube angle, toptube length and all that rubbish. what matters is the front end: front center, trail, rake, head tube angle, stem length. all that stuff.

merckx frames dont have short (or, for that matter, long) top tubes. they are designed around placing the rider in the right place so that the bike is balanced and handles right at speed. so, put a long stem on it. at least 120mm. any shorter, and you risk screwing with the design intent.

i doubt if you could tell a difference between the Sc and the race, assuming identical wheels-tires, etc. get whichever one you can afford. i have an Sc, best bike ever. Better than i need. better than you need ... unless you're last name is van petegem.


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## 10kman

*Had my team sc for about a year.....*

I have about 5000 miles on my Team SC, which is my "good weather" bike since last year, and it's truly awesome. 

I have a 55cm frame size, standard geometry, not the sloping model. I am 5' 11", have a longer inseam than I should, 34.25", so I needed a boxy frame, with a tall headtube to keep things kosher. 

Put the Ouzo Pro on there after an "accident" cutting the stock fork too short by like an inch (note to self, don't rush). Rides nice. The frame is stiff, but lively. No BB flex, but I'm 150 pounds wet, I doubt I could flex anything. Holds a line very well going down, cornering, etc. It's just an all-around good frame. I wish it was 1000 grams, but I'm sure I'd lose some reliability. 

Stock frame alone weighs 1347 grams (I weigh everything). Built the bike to about 17 pounds total, Shimano DA, nothing *really* light on it, but I would love to get it under 16 pounds. Maybe one day I'll decide to rebuild it....

See picture....... Hope this helps.

10k


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## Henry Chinaski

j-son said:


> so, put a long stem on it. at least 120mm. any shorter, and you risk screwing with the design intent.


Actually, Eddy was pretty obsessed with building his frames around an 11cm stem (at least in most sizes). He saw Andy Hampsten with a 12 or 13 stem on his bike with Andy was with 7-11 or Motorola and freaked out and had a custom frame built for him with a top tube long enough for him to ride with an 11.


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## j-son

wierd. i've also got an ouzo pro on my team sc. thought i was the only one. i had problems with the stock fork. replaced it with the reynolds (which most closely matched the dimensions of the oem fork).


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## j-son

his modern bikes follow the coni manual pretty closely. and like other true euro race bikes (colnago, pegs etc) handle best with long low stems. the problem with a lot of race bikes i see is the stem is too short and the bars are too high.

just added: i heard (over on the tri site slowtwitch) a nasty rumor that trek was buying merckx? you heard anything to this effect.


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## Smittyburger

I don't have any experience with the Merckx Race frame, but I can briefly comment on my experience with the Team SC.

I've got approximately 3500 Km on my 2003 Merckx Team SC 57cm frame. It's built up using the 2003 Chorus groupo and Pro-Fit pedals, Proton wheels, SI Flite saddle, Thomson post and, TTT Forgie bar and stem. I suspect she weighs in at about 17.5 lbs give or take a few ounces. I'm 6' 2" and weigh in at about 180 lbs. 

I ride all types of road surfaces that cover the local rolling terrain. The ride does not seem to be too harsh at all and in fact is very easy on the body, probably due to its relaxed geometry. I actually believe the Merckx is comperable in comfort to my old steel Benotto frame with the added bonus of having a more rigid/stiff and responsive feel to it. 

The frame is very well built. Nice ground blended welds under a first rate paint job.

Overall a great frame!


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## Mosovich

*Size Question*

Smitty, how tall are you, what's your inseam etc.? What is your seat height from center of BB to seat rail? Thanks, this will be a HUGE help for me! My LBS wants to put me on a 57, but I think it's way too big. Again, thanks for your reply.


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## kajukembo

*beware of the LBS*



Mosovich said:


> Smitty, how tall are you, what's your inseam etc.? What is your seat height from center of BB to seat rail? Thanks, this will be a HUGE help for me! My LBS wants to put me on a 57, but I think it's way too big. Again, thanks for your reply.


If you can't use a 120 stem, the bike is too big. Race bikes in the 56,57 size are desinged around a stem this size.


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## Smittyburger

Mosovich said:


> Smitty, how tall are you, what's your inseam etc.? What is your seat height from center of BB to seat rail? Thanks, this will be a HUGE help for me! My LBS wants to put me on a 57, but I think it's way too big. Again, thanks for your reply.


Mo, 

I'm 6' 2" (at least I was at one time!  ) and my inseam is 35" (89cm). Seat rail to BB is about 75cm but I have played with this a bit, plus or minus a cm or two.

I believe the Merckx frames fit big. For comparism of my old Benotto versus the Merckx, see below:

Benotto:
Frame size - 60cm, ST - 60cm (top of TT to centre of BB), TT - 58cm (CC) 

Merckx: 
Frame size - 57cm, ST - 58.5m (top of TT to centre of BB), TT - 57.7cm (CC)

The Merckx is now set up pretty close to the same cockpit dimensions as my Benotto. The Merckx stem is a 120.

I was a wee bit afraid of ording the 57 size bike at first (I would have got a 58 if they would have had one) since I was buying it sight unseen from GVH via the net, but with a little bit of research and good luck it all worked out perfect for me.

A real helpful fitting giude that I used can be found here: http://www.bsn.com/Cycling/ergobike.html. 
It may be a bit on the racy side of fitting, but it worked for my old beat up body.

Hope this helps 

Good Riding!


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## Mosovich

*Thanks!!*

Thanks for your reply!


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## Mosovich

*Okay, I've done it!!*

Okay boys and girls, I ordered my EM Race frame today in a 55. I took all the feed back you guys gave and did alot of measuring and such and think and hope that will be the right size. I'll post pics once it's built!


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## Smittyburger

Mosovich said:


> Okay boys and girls, I ordered my EM Race frame today in a 55. I took all the feed back you guys gave and did alot of measuring and such and think and hope that will be the right size. I'll post pics once it's built!


Mo,
Way Da Go!
You never did give out your body size. What is your height and inseam?


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## Mosovich

*RE: my size etc.*

I'm 6', with a 34" inseam, now that's true inseam, not pant inseam. My arms are 34" (that's dress shirt length). After emailing numerous people and calling Cbike, etc. I came to the conclusion a 55 should be perfect, it's got a 56.3 TT. I test rode a 58 madone yesterday and it has a 57.3 TT, and it could've worked with a 110 stem, but the head tube was too short, like 15.5 cm, vs. the Merckx 17, which should be perfect. I'm pretty pumped, it's just so dadgum nerve racking, for me 1700 is alot to just flick away like that. I"ve been on this quest for some time and actually this is my second frame in six months. Cross your fingers, it'll be here Monday!!


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