# Levi & Garmin



## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

there's an article on cyclingnews about Vaughters and potential signings for next year. Anyone know why Levi isn't a top choice for Garmin. Seems like a natural fit: Levi would do well to get off a team with Contador and Kloden on it so he can be a team leader. Garmin doesn't really have a strong GC contender. Levi's American so that would also fit well. Is there history between Vaughters and Levi that would block this, or just a money issue?


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## Guest (Jul 9, 2008)

stevesbike said:


> there's an article on cyclingnews about Vaughters and potential signings for next year. Anyone know why Levi isn't a top choice for Garmin. Seems like a natural fit: Levi would do well to get off a team with Contador and Kloden on it so he can be a team leader. Garmin doesn't really have a strong GC contender. Levi's American so that would also fit well. Is there history between Vaughters and Levi that would block this, or just a money issue?


Levi is a washed up has been.

His best years are behind him, he is not a GC leader for any legitimate contending team.

He is past his prime ( if he ever had one) and certainly would not be of interest to a team building on youth. And talent.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

stevesbike said:


> there's an article on cyclingnews about Vaughters and potential signings for next year. Anyone know why Levi isn't a top choice for Garmin.


Not to state the obvious, but maybe Levi doesn't fit into the kind of team Vaughters is trying to run?


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## ti-triodes (Aug 14, 2006)

Tough crowd here.


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## BCR#1 (Jul 29, 2007)

toomanybikes said:


> Levi is a washed up has been.
> 
> His best years are behind him, he is not a GC leader for any legitimate contending team.
> 
> He is past his prime ( if he ever had one) and certainly would not be of interest to a team building on youth. And talent.


He might be washed up but I'll bet your ass couldn't stay on his wheel very long.

Bill


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## tron (Jul 18, 2004)

I would echo toomanybikes' comments. It doesnt seem worth the effort to invest in Levi at this point. All he does is win the TOC. I dont think they are concerned with a GC threat right now. They are still building and getting experience for their younger riders and seem to be looking looking "small" and going for some stage wins


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## astanafan708 (Jul 9, 2008)

who ever thinks levi is washed up has been is just blowing steam...levi is a great rider and major GC contender on the right team


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## astanafan708 (Jul 9, 2008)

*good levi vid*

and hes a fighter who knows how to get stuff done.. check out this video i found... speakin of him being a fighter......http://cycleto.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=354


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## slowdave (Nov 29, 2005)

garmin is a team with a great number of young riders and a few experienced older "wiser" heads they are also a conti team, They have a couple of riders in the middle age 28-30 but not many. A gc rider like levi has maybe one (if that) year left of really contending for grand tours. On another point garmin does have a few ex disco boys, Matt White director, Trent Lowe and Jono Vaughters so i dont feel that being an ex disco boy is a major threat to being signed on garmin.


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2008)

BCR#1 said:


> He might be washed up but I'll bet your ass couldn't stay on his wheel very long.
> 
> Bill


At what point did I intimate that I could.

Read carefully and you will see that I did not suggest that.

As to Levi, he is done.

His best years are long behind him.


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## ClimbElYunque (Jun 21, 2005)

Levi is now a super domestique. Maybe a backup GC guy in GTs at the most. He cannot keep up with fast accelerations on steep climbs. You saw that last year and he admitted it himself.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

levi is probably too old for what slipstream/garmin/chipotle is doing. and he doesnt appear to be a leader. i think if garmin wanted an older guy to compliment the team, they would look to someone who could play the role of mentor, and i dont see levi as being much of a mentor. his tactics dont seem to be great. plus, he kinda suffered when he is away from johan. then again, he was on gerolsteiner...

i also think they will continue to look outside the US. voigt would be a great signing, but i dont see that happening. i think when he leaves CSC that will be it. actually, just about anyone from CSC would be a good acquisition. too bad julich is probably done after this year. again. i can see him take the mentor role.


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

If you were to look around for younger American talent in the pro tour, you're not going to find it. I Garmin's ambition is to get there they have to go international. JV has mentioned that he would like to get a GC guy, who fits that mold...Cunego. He's young, won the Giro, anti-doping, marketable. I just don't know if they could aford him. Or they could offer Landis a "comeback" contract.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

if landis rides again it will be in black and green for team michael ball.



coop said:


> Or they could offer Landis a "comeback" contract.


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## rkb (Apr 4, 2007)

I'm new to watching the Pro scene but to me Levi is the most uninspiring rider that always places fairly high. I have yet to see him attack in any of the races that I have watched. His steady style seems to serve him well, but I like to see a little more passion, ala Hincape.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

What about the fact that Levi probably has too high of an asking price? His age hurts him too. I'm pretty sure that someone 35+ has only won the Tour once, and that was somewhere north of 50 years ago.

That's not to say he isn't a strong rider, because he certainly is. But why pay a premium for someone who statistically has no chance to contend for the GC.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

for people who think Levi can't race aggressively, you should watch the youtube clip of Levi riding every top US pro off his wheel and soloing for 40km to win last year's US championships. I agree he's getting old, but he's still the strongest US stage racer, and would likely be next year as well. I think he still has another run at the Tour left in him.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

stevesbike said:


> for people who think Levi can't race aggressively, you should watch the youtube clip of Levi riding every top US pro off his wheel and soloing for 40km to win last year's US championships. I agree he's getting old, but he's still the strongest US stage racer, and would likely be next year as well. I think he still has another run at the Tour left in him.


Your points are exactly the problem though. Being one of the most, if not the most, dominate US all arounders currently riding, he likely expects (and deserves) good pay. Can Garmin, which is by all accounts a relatively small team, afford to pay that just to have a high GC placing in next year's Tour? Garmin has a fair amount of big name riders, so they have to be stretched tight budget wise.

I'd think the money is better spent on some young blood.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

I think Vaughters would look for a young talent, he's got enough old dogs already to do the teaching. 

And he's already got the next big hope under contract... shame he's too young yet: Taylor Phinney.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

Creakyknees said:


> And he's already got the next big hope under contract... shame he's too young yet: Taylor Phinney.


I understand that he's thought to be classics guy in the making, not a GC hopeful.

JV said they are limited to a maximum of 25 riders. Some sort of UCI by-law pertaining to Continental Pro teams. He also said they MIGHT want to sign an established GC contender. Could that be Levi (he of the breakaway win at ToC, and ultra-high-mountain win at Tour of Germany, BTW)? I sort of doubt it. His being American is a hindrance, rather than a help, if anything. Garmin wants European exposure, so they'd probably want a Euro. 

OTOH, with the infusion of cash from Garmin they could probably afford a Levi or his ilk. If they could truly contend for GC at a big GT they'd want to do that.

JSR


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Phinney can still pull off a Cavendish for the tours, but no way will he win a GC with his current track record. No pun intended?

I'd like to see Schlek(s) or Cunego for JV's team.


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

My guess is that he is going to sign Hincapie. Hincapie's firm, H3O is already a sponsor. Put 2 and 3(pun intended) together and see what you get.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

iliveonnitro said:


> Phinney can still pull off a Cavendish for the tours, but no way will he win a GC with his current track record. No pun intended?
> 
> I'd like to see Schlek(s) or Cunego for JV's team.


Cunego would be awesome to have for Garmin-Chipotle. And he's a good fit because he's young, already has some good wins, and he has been outspoken about doping. Isn't he the rider that is supposed to have a temp tattoo on his arm during the tour, which has something to do with the anti doping movement?


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## steephill (Jul 14, 2005)

stevesbike said:


> Anyone know why Levi isn't a top choice for Garmin. Seems like a natural fit. Is there history between Vaughters and Levi that would block this, or just a money issue?


Levi has a two-year contract with Astana.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

steephill said:


> Levi has a two-year contract with Astana.


Hey now, don't bring too much common sense to this thread!


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## JeffN (Sep 19, 2006)

weltyed said:


> if landis rides again it will be in black and green for team michael ball.


+1. If not Levi or Floyd, than who? Vaughters indicated they may have big news about a signing by August. He seemed to suggest that this would be a high-profile rider who "fits well with our team culture". I think it could still be Levi despite everything that many here have noted, but if not I'm curious who it might be.


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## Bry03cobra (Oct 31, 2006)

I asked this before, but could it be Floyd?? I think that with their doping program, maybe he would be accepted if he was opening himself up to their extensive testing. Looks like RockRacing has a good testing program in place, but Mr Ball is already disliked. Vaughters seems to be doing all the right things and well liked....maybe he can sell a "clean" Floyd return??


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

chris horner? he would be a good fit. experience in the US and abroad. good head for racing. can be a lead out, and help (somewhat) in the climbs. he could be the mentor they need. also sets him up to be a future DS...

i can see big george comin for a year or two...


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

*never*

well, almost never. the only reason millar is on the team is because he confessed to doping, served his suspension, and is trying to make good. floyd never confessed. while there is a chance he never doped, the actions surrounding him (defiance, threatening text messages/phone calls to a witness, seeming alliance with the questionable rock racing group) take him outta the running. im not saying floyd DID dope, but public opinion is swayed that way. slipstream sports may want publicity, but not that kind. thats the kind rock racing wants.



Bry03cobra said:


> I asked this before, but could it be Floyd?? I think that with their doping program, maybe he would be accepted if he was opening himself up to their extensive testing. Looks like RockRacing has a good testing program in place, but Mr Ball is already disliked. Vaughters seems to be doing all the right things and well liked....maybe he can sell a "clean" Floyd return??


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

After weeks of racing, Levi finished a few seconds behind only 2 guys in The Tour de France 11 months ago, that race has couple hills from what I hear. I also hear its fairly competitive. I guess he isnt as horrible and washed up as people think. Old, yes.


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## roadie92 (Jan 21, 2008)

I don't know about Levi. All he really does is win the ToC. Is it really worth invetsing in a rider that will win one race.


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## varian72 (Jul 18, 2006)

Nothing wrong with Floyd. Gives Garmin even more ammo to promote the "race-clean" image, redmption for those who did like David Millar and prove it works. And for Floyd to come back, kick everyone's ass and prove his point that he raced clean and can beat people racing clean. I'm not saying he *was *clean just that he'd want to prove it in some way or another. That is if the TDF will even let him race now that it's a private event.

As for Levi.....nope. He's a wheel sucker like Cadel. I'm betting on Floyd or some true climber.


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

I was originally saying Landis because of the doping/anit-doping thing. What better way to clean up your image than to join a clean team. Let's all be honest though, all these American names being mentioned, Levi, Hincapie, Horner, and even Landis. They're all on the wrong side of 35 (Landis may be 33 or 34) and in the twilight of their careers. I doubt JV will spend bucket loads of money to ***** out an old American when he could invest in a rider with some quality years left, like Cunego or the Schlecks. JMHO


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## varian72 (Jul 18, 2006)

Garmin is going to be real Pro-American in their choices, but I doubt they'd pass up a Schleck or Cunego if presented with the opportunity. Landis may be a bit too much of a "rebel" for the goody, good garmin boys. Not that there is anything wrong with that. No doubt it will not be Hincapie or Levi.


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Garmin won't be pro-american. Just the opposite, as they are trying to become the #1 GPS provider in Europe. The way to be the #1 GPS company in Europe? NOT with an American!


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

Garmin will still develop young American talent, that's where they started, so that probably won't change. Everyone here is trying to figure out who the possible GC guy that Garmin will sign for next year (if anyone). My point is why would you waste money on Levi, who is really the only true American GC rider out there, when you could find some younger European talent and grow around that while your young Americans develop. By the way, some of Garmin's best results this year were non-American, Lowe(Aus), Martin(Irl), Maaskaant(Ned). So it's not like they're afraid of non-American.


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

Did I hear a few months back that George is actually part owner of Garmin Chipotle? My understanding (at least when it was called slipstream-chipotle) was that the "presented by H3O" moniker referred to Hincapie as one of the H's in H3O. True?


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## Cyclo-phile (Sep 22, 2005)

I think sponsor is a better term than part owner. Hincapie is a partner in H3O which is a sports marketing firm.

I suspect George is pretty happy racing for Bob Stapleton for now though.

Personally, I'd like to see Garmin grooming a young guy for GC hopes....someone like Peter Stetina, Steven Van Vooren, or David Veilleux.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

iliveonnitro said:


> Garmin won't be pro-american. Just the opposite, as they are trying to become the #1 GPS provider in Europe. The way to be the #1 GPS company in Europe? NOT with an American!


Exactly. Motorola took over from 7-11 because they wanted to sell electronics in Europe and added more European riders. USPS took over from Motorola because the wanted to get a foothold in international shipping.  Garmin wants to sell GPS in Europe, look for a young big gun from Italy, France, or Germany. A rider like Cunego would be an instant GC contender for the Giro and the Italians love gadgets and cars.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Cunego a good guess Bill*



bigbill said:


> Exactly. Motorola took over from 7-11 because they wanted to sell electronics in Europe and added more European riders. USPS took over from Motorola because the wanted to get a foothold in international shipping. Garmin wants to sell GPS in Europe, look for a young big gun from Italy, France, or Germany. A rider like Cunego would be an instant GC contender for the Giro and the Italians love gadgets and cars.


but Garmin wants riders that fit a certain mentality / personality

my guess is it is Cadel


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

atpjunkie said:


> but Garmin wants riders that fit a certain mentality / personality
> 
> my guess is it is Cadel



Boring whiny wheelsucker, is that the mentality/personality you think they want. Besides they probably can't afford him, especially if he wins the TDF this year. I still they go young if they do anything at all. Cunego or one of the Schleks.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Way over estimation*



bigbill said:


> Exactly. A rider like Cunego would be an instant GC contender for the Giro and the Italians love gadgets and cars.



Your opinion of Cunego is way over estimated. Lion? Don't think so. Can't time trial and can only climb on a good day with a tailwind. He just doesn't have the horsepower.


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

dagger said:


> Your opinion of Cunego is way over estimated. Lion? Don't think so. Can't time trial and can only climb on a good day with a tailwind. He just doesn't have the horsepower.


He's only 26...don't be tainted by Contador.


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## Under ACrookedSky (Nov 8, 2005)

stevesbike said:


> there's an article on cyclingnews about Vaughters and potential signings for next year. Anyone know why Levi isn't a top choice for Garmin. Seems like a natural fit: Levi would do well to get off a team with Contador and Kloden on it so he can be a team leader. Garmin doesn't really have a strong GC contender. Levi's American so that would also fit well. Is there history between Vaughters and Levi that would block this, or just a money issue?


Leipheimer decided to go back to Bruyneel. Vaughters and the other ex-Postal guys know exactly what that means. It should tell you everything you need to know about Leipheimer's compatability with the team. If the team did not care about such things then they might as well hire Landis, who is younger and better.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*nope*



coop said:


> Boring whiny wheelsucker, is that the mentality/personality you think they want. Besides they probably can't afford him, especially if he wins the TDF this year. I still they go young if they do anything at all. Cunego or one of the Schleks.


speaks english, has been pretty outspoken against doping, races well

never said I was a fan, just said, IMHO he is the most likely of all the top GC guys right now that fits Garmin's ethos

yes it all depends on this years TdF performance


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## rollin nolan (Jun 22, 2007)

Anybody know how long Contador's contract with Astana is? What about Bruyneel? Will there be an Astana next year? If Contador, Levi, Kloden & Bruyneel are still together next year then Garmin's GC contender signing is academic. Contador will be unstoppable. That being said, I'm a huge Garmin fan. Go Burritos!


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

JV is pursuing Cadel, don't know if he will get him. If he does well this year his price will be huge. 

You should also see Christian Meier on the roster next year


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

bigpinkt said:


> You should also see Christian Meier on the roster next year


That's a name I don't recognize. Who is he?

JR


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## Racer C (Jul 18, 2002)

JSR said:


> That's a name I don't recognize. Who is he?
> 
> JR


23 Year Old Canadian National Champion, rides for Symmetrics


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2008)

bigpinkt said:


> JV is pursuing Cadel, don't know if he will get him. If he does well this year his price will be huge.
> 
> You should also see Christian Meier on the roster next year


JV has mentioned that he wants to add two guys next year, but really only has one slot open... I really do wonder what he is thinking...


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

There is still some life in Levi's old legs as of today. He's up 2:30 as of stage 5 in the Cascade Classic going on right now. Pretty tough little domestic stage race in the Oregon mountains.
Don Hanson


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

Gnarly 928 said:


> There is still some life in Levi's old legs as of today. He's up 2:30 as of stage 5 in the Cascade Classic going on right now. Pretty tough little domestic stage race in the Oregon mountains.
> Don Hanson


Looking closer at the results, I think he only has one Astana guy, Horner, who is 26mins back, so he looks to be doing this one almost alone against some pretty big domestic squads.
Don Hanson


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*I said the same thing*



bigpinkt said:


> JV is pursuing Cadel, don't know if he will get him. If he does well this year his price will be huge.
> 
> You should also see Christian Meier on the roster next year


and it turned into a Cadel bash

I made no comment other than what you did, just info

people is so funny


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

atpjunkie said:


> and it turned into a Cadel bash
> 
> I made no comment other than what you did, just info
> 
> people is so funny



Cadel is an extremely talented rider who appears to be clean, but from what one hears about him he seems to be an a-hole. If you look back at Garmin's training camp they worked on developing team cohesivness. How do you bring in a guy who has trashed his team in the media, and dropped his protected rider for personal glory (Paris-Nice). Dosen't seem to fit the team philosophy.


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## funktekk (Jul 29, 2006)

coop said:


> Cadel is an extremely talented rider who appears to be clean, but from what one hears about him he seems to be an a-hole. If you look back at Garmin's training camp they worked on developing team cohesivness. How do you bring in a guy who has trashed his team in the media, and dropped his protected rider for personal glory (Paris-Nice). Dosen't seem to fit the team philosophy.


David Millar comes off like an a-hole in his interviews as well.

It is so hard to tell what these guys are really like by their 30sec sound bites post race. 

That being said I hate the way Cadel races... safe and boring. Maybe this year he will animate the race at some point, but I'm not going to bet on it. As long as he can wheel suck his way up the mountains and make his gains in the time trial he will. 

Besides that I think Evans has his last shot at yellow this year. Teams have geared up for his defensive approach. Caisse d'Epargne, CSC, and Saunier Duval all have multiple guys high on the GC that can climb. It is the same game Discovery played last year. If you mark Levi's move then Contador will break you. 

I just don't see how defense works in the mountains when there are teams that are so deep. CSC really would scare me if I was DS for one of the other teams. If they get the Schlek bros and Sastre leap frogging attacks up a slope they will break everyone. 

What are the chances that Garmin gets a Pro Tour license next year?


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## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Garmin will definitely get a protour license next year. Wasn't this already decided?

Also, domestic racing does not compare to european racing. NO domestic racing comes close to comparing to the Tour.

Almost everyone who goes to the tour is a champion of something -- time trial, world champ, road champ, junior champ, track champ, etc.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

iliveonnitro said:


> Garmin will definitely get a protour license next year. Wasn't this already decided?


JV has not decided whether he wants to get one. I don't imagine he will want one, once the dust settles. 

About half the PT licenses are up for renewal. It seems unlikely any team will renew, IMHO. Why would they? They'd be obligated to ride the Tour Down Under, the Russian race, and one in China. And they would not be guaranteed a spot in any ASO race. 

What's the point? 

JSR


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

funktekk said:


> David Millar comes off like an a-hole in his interviews as well.
> 
> I suppose he has a certain amount of leverage to be an a-hole, isn't he a part owner?


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

I also wonder if JV will bite for a ProTour license. Garmin said it wants European exposure, not sure how races in Russia, China and Australia are going to help with that.

Cofidis' license may be a little hot potato that nobody wants.


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## Run1stBike2nd (Oct 28, 2005)

jorgy said:


> I also wonder if JV will bite for a ProTour license. Garmin said it wants European exposure, not sure how races in Russia, China and Australia are going to help with that.
> 
> Cofidis' license may be a little hot potato that nobody wants.


Good point about how racing a global schedule doesn't fit in with Garmin's goal of gaining market share in Europe. To that point, a ProTour license would be a waste of money. As long as Team Garmin can maintain a dope-free image, they'll get into most of the races they want without having a ProTour license. 

The only motivation to get a ProTour license would be if Garmin has interest in gaining a foothold in a rapidly expanding market like China. Even then, perhaps Garmin can find a more effective way to promote itself in China.


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## bonkmiester (Sep 23, 2005)

varian72 said:


> Nothing wrong with Floyd. Gives Garmin even more ammo to promote the "race-clean" image, redmption for those who did like David Millar and prove it works. And for Floyd to come back, kick everyone's ass and prove his point that he raced clean and can beat people racing clean. I'm not saying he *was *clean just that he'd want to prove it in some way or another. *That is if the TDF will even let him race now that it's a private event.*
> 
> As for Levi.....nope. He's a wheel sucker like Cadel. I'm betting on Floyd or some true climber.



...ASO will never let him race, so any team that hires him would just be excluded...and throwing their money away in the process...

Phloyd is toast...

b0nk


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## bonkmiester (Sep 23, 2005)

Run1stBike2nd said:


> Good point about how racing a global schedule doesn't fit in with Garmin's goal of gaining market share in Europe. To that point, a ProTour license would be a waste of money. As long as Team Garmin can maintain a dope-free image, they'll get into most of the races they want without having a ProTour license.
> 
> The only motivation to get a ProTour license would be if Garmin has interest in gaining a foothold in a *rapidly expanding market like China*. Even then, perhaps Garmin can find a more effective way to promote itself in China.




It's about Europe at the moment.... think about it:

...Garmin has been buying up distributorships in Europe like crazy...

...the big $$$ in GPS sales is in Mobile Electronics [automobile & truck/buss *flee*t] GPS based products...

...there are more fleets/cars in Europe at this time and the Global Recession is going to slow down China's domestic automobile sales growth...

...and in order to make GPS work you have to have a reliable network of satellites...China isn't there yet...

...there are also lots of cellular based services Garmin can sell to Euro cellular service providers that are looking for feature rich content to offer consimers & capture more market share...Europe has a big cell network, China is still growing theirs...

But it's lots of season long advertising impressions that count.. successful Continental racing campaign, spring classics, good showings in the Big Tours will serve Garmin well ... don't need a TdF winner ot do that ...


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

Slipstream / Garmin is putting on a pretty good show in Europe this year without the Pro Tour ranking.


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## Eric_H (Feb 5, 2004)

*More info*



Racer C said:


> 23 Year Old Canadian National Champion, rides for Symmetrics


I believe Christian Meier has a stagiaire contract with Slipstream/Garmin that will begin once the official stagiaire period starts (sometime in August). I do not know if he has a contract for 2009 with them, I suspect that will come if he rides well and fits in during his stagiaire. In addition to the recent Canadian National road title, Meier also finished equal on time (but 2nd place) to Francisco Mancebo at the 2007 Vuelta a Chihuahua and in front of guys like Oscar Sevilla. He was also riding high up in GC at last year's Tour de l'Avenir before a crash took him out. He has consistenly finished in the front group at the last three U23 Worlds.

Another hot rumour in my parts (Symmetrics' homeland) is that Svein Tuft is also headed to Slipstream/Garmin. He was the winner of the 2007 UCI Americas overall, and solo winner of the one and only US Open. He and JV were teammates on Prime Alliance in 2003.

I think you guys are dreaming if you think JV will be signing Cadel, a Schleck or Cunego. They can free up some money and a spot if they dump Danielson, and they should after his commments about not being selected to the Tour, but the money those guys command is pretty large.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

Tinkoff, OTOH, looks poised for a ProTour license.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

bonkmiester said:


> ...and in order to make GPS work you have to have a reliable network of satellites...China isn't there yet...


Just a note...

The GPS satellite system is maintained by the US. The 24+-satellite constellation surrounds earth in a more-or-less equivalent fashion. IRRC, 4 satellites should be in 'view' in any location on earth at any time, which allows the determination of lat, long and elevation. So, China doesn't need to develop its own system at all. There's already satellites up there.


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## bonkmiester (Sep 23, 2005)

jorgy said:


> Just a note...
> 
> The GPS satellite system is *maintained by the US*. The 24+-satellite constellation surrounds earth in a more-or-less equivalent fashion. IRRC, 4 satellites should be in 'view' in any location on earth at any time, which allows the determination of lat, long and elevation. So, China doesn't need to develop its own system at all. There's already satellites up there.


...yes, BUT the EU is developing *Galileo* so they don't have to depend on the US military...that's a big development & I am sure Garmin wants to be *or* is instrumental in its developement....and Galileo will interface with current GPS system , so EU will have a super network of GPS sats...

...so my points are: that EU is a more important market for Garmin than China is or will be for some time to come; Garmin doesn't need a big star cyclist or the ProTour to have a successful EU marketing campaign, just lots of advertising impressions from a healthy Continental season ...

...I think they are going to pick up a couple of strong Euro classics guys...
the way JV is talking about it, you gotta think about who was in good form pre-tour...and who wasn't locked into a contract past July...


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## Jokull (Aug 13, 2007)

Eric_H said:


> Another hot rumour in my parts (Symmetrics' homeland) is that Svein Tuft is also headed to Slipstream/Garmin. He was the winner of the 2007 UCI Americas overall, and solo winner of the one and only US Open. He and JV were teammates on Prime Alliance in 2003.


Really? That's pretty cool given that Symmetrics are folding soon (exactly when do Symmetrics end?) I watched Symmetrics/Tuft at the BC Provincials and the Yaletown GP this year - they were very impressive. And they make a fairly big deal about being doping free, so presumably they'd fit right in with Garmin.

(Back to the original question - Garmin are about young, clean riders - where would Levi fit in?)


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

Ah. Hadn't heard about Galileo. Makes sense. It's my understanding the military still scrambles the signal a bit, so the accuracy isn't as good as it could be & would give the EU another incentive to create their own.

Back in the early 90s we'd on rare occasions find the GPS reading a mile off compared to the differentially corrected one, but I think the scrambling is much less now.


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## tete de la tour (Oct 26, 2006)

Svein Tuft is one seriously tuff cyclist. kinda like a jens Voigt. The guy is an animal.


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## Sojourneyman (Jun 22, 2007)

With their strong showing this year, Garmin seems to need a climber that can support Christian more than anything


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

Sojourneyman said:


> With their strong showing this year, Garmin seems to need a climber that can support Christian more than anything


Well they have Tom Dan......oh nevermind.


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## Rushfan (Apr 20, 2003)

I read on a blog that Garmin & Levi talked this year before Levi signed with Astana, but the money just wouldn't work. Maybe this year, but if Levi has a two year deal...

3rd place in the Tour last year and no love? That's pretty hard. I think Levi would be a good fit on Garmin-he & Vande Velde would be a decent threat together. I really like Chris Horner for Garmin-that's a great idea.

Guess that Garmin won't need a Pro Tour license next year though.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

iliveonnitro said:


> Garmin will definitely get a protour license next year. .


And! ProTour licenses will be on sale next year too.


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

Anybody heard about Alan Davis coming to Garmin?


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## pedal2tahoe (Nov 10, 2006)

I can't belive the dis-respect that Levi is getting on here.

I think results trump age. This guy is still a 'gamer", and knows how to win. I just watched him take the cascade classic with only one team member. Who else could of pulled that off??
Then there's his time trialing. One of the best, currently. Yeah that Fabian guy is o.k. too..

I agree, his style is a little boring, but the guy comes through, and yes, he is AMERICAN.
How can you be "washed up" after taking 3rd in the Tour last year??

Sorry- just venting..........Feel so much better now-


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## _velodoc_ (Dec 26, 2007)

Let Levi Cry......haha


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

pedal2tahoe said:


> and yes, he is AMERICAN.


And that matters why? He's just not a tough young threat that Garmin needs.


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## serbski (Dec 2, 2002)

pedal2tahoe said:


> I can't belive the dis-respect that Levi is getting on here.
> 
> I think results trump age. This guy is still a 'gamer", and knows how to win. I just watched him take the cascade classic with only one team member. Who else could of pulled that off??
> Then there's his time trialing. One of the best, currently. Yeah that Fabian guy is o.k. too..
> ...


Honestly, I think in Garmin's eyes he's tainted as a result of riding for Astana. I suspect that if the sh*t really starts hitting the fan as regards doping in this year's TdF (and whatever fallout results) some of the older guys are going to suffer...


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2008)

funktekk said:


> What are the chances that Garmin gets a Pro Tour license next year?


Why on earth would they want one?

The Pro Tour, one of the worst ideas ever in cycling, is finally and thankfully dead.


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## BroughAJ (Jul 19, 2008)

Mootsie said:


> Well they have Tom Dan......oh nevermind.


I probably missed a lot of news, but why does everyone seem to be against Tom Danielson lately? I thought he was just injured and will be back in form next year. If not, is his contract with Garmin-Chipotle up so he can be replaced? I personally had high hopes for Tommy D.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

BroughAJ said:


> I probably missed a lot of news, but why does everyone seem to be against Tom Danielson lately? I thought he was just injured and will be back in form next year. If not, is his contract with Garmin-Chipotle up so he can be replaced? I personally had high hopes for Tommy D.


I think it's mostly everyone being against the Tom Danielson hype. Great expectations were set, rightly or wrongly, that he would be a GC threat like Lance. That hasn't happened.

And then recently, when he wasn't selected for the TdF, he expressed confusion as to why the team would demand performance on the road in order to make the team. It makes one wonder about his mindset. He's been living on the promise of his talent for so long, he seems to think that results don't matter. JV has "put paid" (thanks, Phil ) to that notion, and Tom seems slow to accept reality.

I'm probably not alone in hoping that someday Tom is perfectly healthy and he's able to bring in the results his talent would suggest. I'm not holding my breath.

JSR


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## Racer C (Jul 18, 2002)

BroughAJ said:


> I probably missed a lot of news, but why does everyone seem to be against Tom Danielson lately? I thought he was just injured and will be back in form next year. If not, is his contract with Garmin-Chipotle up so he can be replaced? I personally had high hopes for Tommy D.


I wasn't all that against Tom Danielson until his ridiculous reaction to his non-selection for the Tour. Since the selection, he has been bashing his team left and right, claiming he can't understand at all why he wasn't selected and that it's unfair.


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

Racer C said:


> I wasn't all that against Tom Danielson until his ridiculous reaction to his non-selection for the Tour. Since the selection, he has been bashing his team left and right, claiming he can't understand at all why he wasn't selected and that it's unfair.



I was a little suprised how public he has made his disagreement, but Maggy's departure may have fanned it a little. When it was put out on the Garmin web site that Maggy was racing at only 60% and JV didn't select Tommy D when he was only at 80%, that must've burned a little.


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## astanafan708 (Jul 9, 2008)

Racer C said:


> I wasn't all that against Tom Danielson until his ridiculous reaction to his non-selection for the Tour. Since the selection, he has been bashing his team left and right, claiming he can't understand at all why he wasn't selected and that it's unfair.



yeah then you got Tommy sayin stuff like he loves his buds like Chris and the mates so he's just pissed bout not being in the Tour and was lettin off some steam..... along the same lines check out this great interview with Tom I found... http://www.cycleto.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=384


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## Donegal (Apr 23, 2005)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Not to state the obvious, but maybe Levi doesn't fit into the kind of team Vaughters is trying to run?


Kind of team???? Crybaby finger pointers. I for one am totally sick of Vaughters, with those 60's sideburns talking his holier than thou sh*&l. How many tours did that loser start????finish????? Never.

He is using this clean, young team as a marketing ploy to get ahead, no more. He had no substance, and many of his riders are stuck. He has many young American riders wanting to show professionally and several older pros that needed a place to go. Magnus, Millar, Danielson, Zabriskie, Dean, etc. They have all exceeded the level that Vaughters rode at and they act like they have the only team riding clean.

I am also so sick of Millar, the crybaby. First, he didn't come clean, he got busted. By getting sanctimonius and kissing a lot of as&, he got to come back. He is the first on the podium condemning everybody else. When times get tight, he throws a chain, hangs one shifting, spins a disc wheel, etc.

Levi isn't the most exciting, strongest, or even the most talented rider. I am impressed with his consistency and guts. He hangs. He deserves the respect he doesn't allways cry for.


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## AllezCat (Jun 2, 2006)

Has anyone thought of Chris Horner as an option for Garmin-Chipotle?


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

I think Chris would be a great fit, I just wish he was a little younger. He could definately teach the young whipper snappers a thing or two about being a true pro and class act. Of all the American riders people have been mentioning, he would make the most sense as far as a mentor (even to Tommy D). The team couldn't support Levi's aspirations for glory at the TDF. Big George, while I love him, is happy with his role in Columbia. That guy is going to make a great DS someday. Landis would be interesting, but it probably won't happen. I think if they go after a GC type rider, they'll go younger and probably not American. JMHO


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## eugkim (Jul 29, 2007)

stevesbike said:


> for people who think Levi can't race aggressively, you should watch the youtube clip of Levi riding every top US pro off his wheel and soloing for 40km to win last year's US championships. I agree he's getting old, but he's still the strongest US stage racer, and would likely be next year as well. I think he still has another run at the Tour left in him.


This is part of the reason I dislike Levi. He ran away with the US Pro title because his Discovery teammates weren't about to chase him. Therefore, Hincapie sat back like a good soldier and watched Levi win. However, I think there was an undercurrent of ill-will on the Discovery team, as many people assumed that Discovery would have supported Hincapie to win, as the championships were held in his home town. My understanding was that nothing was actually said about who was to win, but Hincapie was somewhat surprised when Levi broke away unexpectedly. At that point, George was saddled with the realization that he was out of the picture. I always combed the internet to find Hincapie's feelings about the situation, but he seemed to be very tight-lipped and professional about the whole thing.


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## Sintesi (Nov 13, 2001)

Donegal said:


> Kind of team???? Crybaby finger pointers. I for one am totally sick of Vaughters, with those 60's sideburns talking his holier than thou sh*&l. How many tours did that loser start????finish????? Never.
> 
> He is using this clean, young team as a marketing ploy to get ahead, no more. He had no substance, and many of his riders are stuck. He has many young American riders wanting to show professionally and several older pros that needed a place to go. Magnus, Millar, Danielson, Zabriskie, Dean, etc. They have all exceeded the level that Vaughters rode at and they act like they have the only team riding clean.
> 
> ...


I love it when a kid goes all apesh*t and flies off the handle like this. My boy.


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