# Black Sheep "Dirt Road" Bike: warning may cause bike lust



## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

This is my new Black Sheep fully custom "dirt road" bike. Black Sheep is based out of Fort Collins, Colorado and James does amazing work, especially if you're into curved tubes and ti. http://www.blacksheepbikes.com/ 

My bike is based on the Speedster frame, which was previously originally a single speed frame design. James will do pretty much whatever you conceive, It has internal cable routing to keep a clean look. It has tire clearance up to 35 cc tires and long reach calipers. The custom ti rack comes off and on with four allen bolts. It's not quite done because I have not yet fully decided on the handlebar. I am trying out a "dirt drop" Origin 8 cyclocross bar but may go with a more standard road bar. Either way, the handlebar and stem will be titanium after I decide and am sure about the geometry. If you're lucky, I'll post more pictures then.


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## sokyroadie (Jan 8, 2006)

Gorgeous bike. I saw their bikes at NAHBS last year and was very impressed. The matching Ti fork is fantastic. Personally I don't find the bars very appealing, but YMMV.

Jeff


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## pghryder (Nov 20, 2004)

That's one sweet looking bike! :thumbsup:


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Pablo, that is perfect.........I love it... 

Which Origin 8 bars are those?


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## terry (Jan 29, 2004)

you're right, he does great work.


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## Lifelover (Jul 8, 2004)

*Wow*

That is what "custom" is all about!

Great execution of a wonderful concept.

I'm also in the "don't like the bars" camp.

His website gets a double WOW! WOW!. He does some super cool stuff.


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## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

I'd turn that seat post clamp around so the pinch bolt is opposite the slit in the seat tube. More even clamping forces. Probably not a big issue with a Ti frame. Just one of my idiosyncrasies. Great looking bike. I'm going to have my kids look him up. They live in Fort Fun.


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## Lifelover (Jul 8, 2004)

Mel Erickson said:


> I'd turn that seat post clamp around so the pinch bolt is opposite the slit in the seat tube.



I have always heard just the opposite.:mad2: 

Now I won't be able to sleep tonight. I'll have to try counting Black sheep.


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2009)

That is great, love all the details.


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## Hippienflipflops (Aug 21, 2007)

pure secks


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## tyro (May 15, 2005)

I have Black Sheep road and cross bikes. They are both wonderful bikes. James is THE man!


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Dave Hickey said:


> Pablo, that is perfect.........I love it...
> 
> Which Origin 8 bars are those?


They're the Garys.

I had a set. They look cool, and are reasonably comfortable, but I could NOT shift worth a crap using STIs on them.

As for the bike itself....


[fap fap fap]


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

Lust? Absolutelyfrickingnokiddinggorgeous. You are a lucky fellow.


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

Awesome bike, some really cool features put into a very practical package. Those twin top tubes into seat stays look really sweet. What was the turn around time one that? I use On One midges which are what the origins look like, great for my SS but shifting from the levers would get tiresome after a while, they really come into their own on the off-road when things start shaking up and down. Give them more time, they will grow on you.


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## rcnute (Dec 21, 2004)

As they say on Craigslist, that bike is TOTALLY HELLA SICK!


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## lemonlime (Sep 24, 2003)

Cool headtube badge. Otherwise...I'm glad you like it.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Sweet. I dig that style of frame. And Ti. And gravel.


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## pdainsworth (Jun 6, 2004)

Absofreakinglutely GORGEOUS!


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## Sherpa23 (Nov 5, 2001)

James is one of the two best welders in Colorado, and one of the best in the world. That bike is awesome.


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## misterdangerpants (Oct 23, 2008)

Wicked.  I recently took delivery of my Black Sheep fork, seat post and stem and can't wait to get my bike built up (a 2008 IF Ti CJ).


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## Plum (Mar 27, 2005)

Pretty bike, but those bars don't have the best reputation for holding up to abuse. There have been reports over on MTBR about those bars breaking at the stem (mostly due to off-road use) and I believe they have been 'de-rated' by the MFG to a townie type bar only.

The on*one midge bars are pretty similar, and I think that SOMA has a bar on the market that is also there. Shedfire cycles (run by Brandt, formerly of On*one) has a new bar coming out (or out already, not sure) that will also fit the bill, and of course, Salsa has the new wood chipper bar.

Anyway, sorry to get off topic, very nice ride again..

Plum


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

lemonlime said:


> Cool headtube badge. Otherwise...I'm glad you like it.


Differnet strokes for differnet folks, I guess.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Well, after a short ride, I swapped out the bars for more traditional road bars. I just did not like the hand positions on the "dirt drop" Origin 8 Gary bars.

I'll update after I get the new ti bars.


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## BunnV (Sep 7, 2005)

Of all the excellent builders that make curvy Ti frames, I think Black Sheep does it best.

Love your bike :thumbsup: . 

The internal cable routing is especially sweet, but the cable running across the top of the fork crown look like it would interfere with low speed tight turning.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

BunnV said:


> Of all the excellent builders that make curvy Ti frames, I think Black Sheep does it best.
> 
> Love your bike :thumbsup: .
> 
> The internal cable routing is especially sweet, but the cable running across the top of the fork crown look like it would interfere with low speed tight turning.


Low speed? Huh?  

ANyway, with the new road bars, the cable is higher and does not sit in there now. 

Thanks.


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

Excellent build...that's a sweet bike there. :thumbsup:


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

Pablo said:


> This is my new Black Sheep fully custom "dirt road" bike. Black Sheep is based out of Fort Collins, Colorado and James does amazing work, especially if you're into curved tubes and ti. http://www.blacksheepbikes.com/
> 
> My bike is based on the Speedster frame, which was previously originally a single speed frame design. James will do pretty much whatever you conceive, It has internal cable routing to keep a clean look. It has tire clearance up to 35 cc tires and long reach calipers. The custom ti rack comes off and on with four allen bolts. It's not quite done because I have not yet fully decided on the handlebar. I am trying out a "dirt drop" Origin 8 cyclocross bar but may go with a more standard road bar. Either way, the handlebar and stem will be titanium after I decide and am sure about the geometry. If you're lucky, I'll post more pictures then.


Dood...that bike is sick. Your fancy lawyer job must be paying well.


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## mpapet (Dec 2, 2009)

Get that man some 650b wheels!!!

I kid. I kid...

That is some artful welding.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

*VERRRRY NIIIIICE pablo-san!!!*

Black Sheep makes some incredible stuff!!! Also, I miss the snow of Colorado!!!


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> Dood...that bike is sick. Your fancy lawyer job must be paying well.


Not well enough!  But really, the wifey and I still live almost like college students and squirrel away most of our money. I saved up for a year to get this one, which isn't so bad considering the Black Sheep wait list is now 20+ weeks. I plan on riding this mofo like e-ver-y-day.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

Pablo said:


> Not well enough!  But really, the wifey and I still live almost like college students and squirrel away most of our money. I saved up for a year to get this one, which isn't so bad considering the Black Sheep wait list is now 20+ weeks. I plan on riding this mofo like e-ver-y-day.


I assume that'll fit super wide tires also so you can ride trails with it. Kind of a do-everything bike. I like that you used Campy...is that 11 speed?

//needs a HTFU sticker.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> I assume that'll fit super wide tires also so you can ride trails with it. Kind of a do-everything bike. I like that you used Campy...is that 11 speed?
> 
> //needs a HTFU sticker.


Yup. This bike is faster b/c it goes to 11.


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## Leopold Porkstacker (Jul 15, 2005)

I am looking forward to the day when I have Black Sheep dollars available for the purchase of one of their $3,700-framed 36er titanium bikes.


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## rcnute (Dec 21, 2004)

Pablo said:


> Yup. This bike is faster b/c it goes to 11.


You need to ride it with a jersey featuring an X-ray of your skeleton.


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## gamara (May 20, 2002)

That is one sweet ride. Very Nice. Question: Doesn't athena offer long reach calipers?


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## T-shirt (Aug 15, 2004)

Well, it's last minute, but I'd say that wins Bike of the Year.


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## Fai Mao (Nov 3, 2008)

I'd have gone with the Campy flat bar shifters on that semi-Mustache bar and bosses for or cantilevers. A high profile cantilever would have looked cool on that frame


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## lancezneighbor (May 4, 2002)

WowEE!!!! Wonderful bike! Great job, enjoy it every day.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

gamara said:


> That is one sweet ride. Very Nice. Question: Doesn't athena offer long reach calipers?


No, alas, they are SHimano, with all Shimano marking buffed off of them.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

Pablo said:


> No, alas, they are SHimano, with all Shimano marking buffed off of them.


I like how you painted the Athena on them. Looks very real.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*agree on the Cantis*



Fai Mao said:


> I'd have gone with the Campy flat bar shifters on that semi-Mustache bar and bosses for or cantilevers. A high profile cantilever would have looked cool on that frame


that is my personal preference cause I'd like to be able run bigger tires if needed
for that ride some of Bruce Gordon's cantis would have killed, but that is MY tatste

still is an absolutely awesome ride, well freakin done. that has 'happy' and 'fun' written all over it


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## Bulldozer (Jul 31, 2003)

Pablo + gears = way too fast.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Leopold Porkstacker said:


> I am looking forward to the day when I have Black Sheep dollars available for the purchase of one of their $3,700-framed 36er titanium bikes.


I rode one at the shop. It was cool.


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## Hollywood (Jan 16, 2003)

your bike makes my pants feel funny.

:thumbsup:


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

Bulldozer said:


> Pablo + gears = way too fast.


He's too fast on his fixed.


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## Reynolds531 (Nov 8, 2002)

Pablo said:


> Low speed? Huh?
> 
> ANyway, with the new road bars, the cable is higher and does not sit in there now.
> 
> Thanks.


 Need pics with road bar. Hurry!


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2009)

Agreed, I'd like to see it myself.


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> that is my personal preference cause I'd like to be able run bigger tires if needed
> for that ride some of Bruce Gordon's cantis would have killed, but that is MY tatste
> 
> still is an absolutely awesome ride, well freakin done. that has 'happy' and 'fun' written all over it


I was thinking Pauls Racers would look cool on that

Awesome bike!


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## paul2432 (Jul 11, 2006)

We're you riding on the Diagonal yesterday morning with a PBSF on each stay? Someone passed me on a bike that looked something like this.

I thought about retaking you and shouting "Nice bike" but decided not to .

BTW, nice bike!!

Paul


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## holy cromoly (Nov 9, 2008)

Beautiful. Bike lust indeed.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

paul2432 said:


> We're you riding on the Diagonal yesterday morning with a PBSF on each stay? Someone passed me on a bike that looked something like this.
> 
> I thought about retaking you and shouting "Nice bike" but decided not to .
> 
> ...


That was me. I ride form Longmont Estates to Boulder most every day. Were you on the red Lemond and are you the same guy who rides on a Raligh in the snow?


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## Chain (Dec 28, 2006)

Sweet. Ya done good.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Chain said:


> Sweet. Ya done good.


I was just jealous of your ti-mobile and Chris King hubs.


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## paul2432 (Jul 11, 2006)

Pablo said:


> That was me. I ride form Longmont Estates to Boulder most every day. Were you on the red Lemond and are you the same guy who rides on a Raligh in the snow?


Yup, I'm the red Lemond guy and the Raleigh in the snow guy. Very observant to notice we are one in the same.

Paul


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

*Now with traditional roads bars . . .*

. . . and with the rack removed for a short ride.


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## kmac76 (Jan 22, 2004)

one of the prettiest bikes posted in a while. period


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## wvucyclist (Sep 6, 2007)

Does the housing run internally or are there stops in the frame? Great looking bike! I love how the seat stays become the top tube.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

wvucyclist said:


> Does the housing run internally or are there stops in the frame? Great looking bike! I love how the seat stays become the top tube.


Yeah that looks like it could be a b*tch to recable, but beautiful bike. Like it a lot without the rack...reminds me of the curves of a VW bug.


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## MTBMaven (Dec 17, 2005)

The rack, dual top tube, and internal routing are the bees knees. Did you run out of iLink cable or is there some reason why you only used it for the rear brake housing? IMO the use of iLink would really help complete the look over traditional black housing. 

I am loving my OnOne Midge bars (similar to the Origin8's you were running previously) on my roadie. I tried them on my previous 29er frame but abandoned the dirt drop pretty quickly. I figured I give them a go on the roadie since they were in the gear closet for about a year. Been using them since Thankgiving and so far I really like them. If I still like them after the double I'm doing in January I will consider them permanent. I'm coming off a Nitto Noodle. If the Midge doesn't work I will throw on the Nitto Randonneur bars from my fixie. 

If you haven't looked at the Nitto Randonneur bars Pablo you might want to. They have a slight flair in the drops. It might split the difference between traditional drops and the Origin8. 








https://www.velo-orange.com/nirabar45.html


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## wvucyclist (Sep 6, 2007)

I have a frame that Southwest frame works put similar cable routing on, it has stops in the frame, but he put little guide tubes in so it's not hard at all to replace the cables. Unlike the Klein I used to have, god save you if you forgot to use the little plastic tube before you pull out the cables.


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## Fai Mao (Nov 3, 2008)

It may just be the curvy top tube making it look like this but is that saddle comfortable with the nose pointed down like that? I have a saddle like that and find the nose needs to be a little higher than than the rear of the saddle


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

Pablo said:


> I saved up for a year to get this one, which isn't so bad considering the Black Sheep wait list is now 20+ weeks.


Absolutely sweet bike.
Please someone, tell me that Pablo is wrong regarding this waiting period.


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## MP-1 (Dec 11, 2001)

So niiiiice. Frame geo reminds me of the Ross Compact I had circa '81.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

FTR said:


> Absolutely sweet bike.
> Please someone, tell me that Pablo is wrong regarding this waiting period.


Do you have an order in?


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## roadbike_moron (Sep 22, 2007)

Wow...amazing looking bike.
This is where high tech meets old school!


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

Man, how did I ever miss this bike? Absolutely incredible, Pablo. I didn't realize you could "bend" ti tubing.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

That is a killer ride.


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

That original handlebar looks like the ergonomics of standard road brake/shift levers would be AWFUL. I wonder who people who actually stick with it cope. I like MTBMaven's idea.


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## Fai Mao (Nov 3, 2008)

Normally that type of bar uses a bar end shifter. Done that way they are really comfortable. Otherwise he could have used one of the Campy flatbar shifters.


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## Troy16 (Jan 2, 2003)

Superb workmanship. Far better than most of the highly overhyped and overpriced stuff you usually see posted in here with nosebleed prices for what are basically stock road frames made with a tiny bit of geometry adjustment. This is true artisanship and customization. No paint or sanding either to hide the original work as all the overrated luggers depend on to clean their bikes up. What brake calipers are you running. Best true custom frameset I have seen in here by far.


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

Fai Mao said:


> Normally that type of bar uses a bar end shifter. Done that way they are really comfortable. Otherwise he could have used one of the Campy flatbar shifters.


I've been looking for a set and they're almost impossible to find.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

Pablo said:


> Do you have an order in?


Not any more.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

Sweet. Me likey.

I wonder what that'd look/act like with straight down and seat tubes? It'd either look out-of-place, or Phibra-ish.

In any case, I'm certain that you will tire of this quickly. When that happens, PM me. I'll take it upon myself to handle disposal duties for you. Just the kind of guy I am.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Pablo said:


> Yup. This bike is faster b/c it goes to 11.


Why didn't you go with 10 and make 10 one higher?  

Nice bike BTW. I have a special dirt road bike but it ain't nutt'n like this.


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## benwitt11 (May 31, 2006)

That's just gorgeous. My next road bike will be able to fit those tires, fenders and will use Paul's brakes. I love the rack as well. This is what a custom bike should be. Congrats!


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Here's a few updated photos with the Black Sheep ti stem, and the new Nokon housing.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Pablo said:


> Here's a few updated photos with the Black Sheep ti stem, and the new Nokon housing.


Sorry, but those cables detract from the bike. YMMV

So after a year, can you comment on the performance of the ti fork? I've always heard ti in that diameter tube was not stable enough for a fork.....so I'm curious.

Beautiful frame BTW

Len


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Len that fork style*



Len J said:


> Sorry, but those cables detract from the bike. YMMV
> 
> So after a year, can you comment on the performance of the ti fork? I've always heard ti in that diameter tube was not stable enough for a fork.....so I'm curious.
> 
> ...



Morati used to use for their Ti cx bikes (and road). I never heard of any of the owners complaining


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Len J said:


> Sorry, but those cables detract from the bike. YMMV
> 
> So after a year, can you comment on the performance of the ti fork? I've always heard ti in that diameter tube was not stable enough for a fork.....so I'm curious.
> 
> ...


Well, I like them as, to my eye in the real world at least, they blend in with the frame more and stand out less than standard black housing. They are also more functional as it was a real pain to run (and make repairs to) standard housing through the frame, plus they're lighter. As they say, argument ends when your talking about aesthetics, or something along those lines. I'm really pleased with it. 

Anyway, I've loved the fork. It does a great job absorbing vibrations, especially on rough dirt roads and some singletrack. It sounds to me like you may be misinformed about ti. Black Sheep (and a few others) does a lot of rigid mountain bike ti forks, which take some real abuse, much more than most road forks.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Pablo said:


> Well, I like them as, to my eye in the real world at least, they blend in with the frame more and stand out less than standard black housing. They are also more functional as it was a real pain to run (and make repairs to) standard housing through the frame, plus they're lighter. As they say, argument ends when your talking about aesthetics, or something along those lines. I'm really pleased with it.
> 
> Anyway, I've loved the fork. It does a great job absorbing vibrations, especially on rough dirt roads and some singletrack. It sounds to me like you may be misinformed about ti. Black Sheep (and a few others) does a lot of rigid mountain bike ti forks, which take some real abuse, much more than most road forks.


Tom Kellogg has indicated in conversation he wouldn't use a ti fork........he indicated (and I'm paraphrasing here) that the thickness of the steerer to ensure enough rigidity coupled w the thickness of the tines to ensure not twisting under brakeing would make it prohibitively heavy and unforgiving. I may have misunderstood, but I've read similar in other places. Which is why I asked your experience.

Here is a short link.. http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2/titanium-road-forks-do-they-work-4955.html

Len


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

Well not to argue with Mr Kellogg (or yourself) but I would have to say that there are many MTBers who would argue vehemently that this is not the case.
Blacksheep and others build perfectly useable unicrown and truss forks for MTB use with disc brakes (so more prone to twisting than on a road bike).
Having seen a Blacksheep road fork up close and personal, I have to say it is a very solid component and I cannot imagine it twisting under the central braking load that road calipers would create. I would imagine that James would match the tubing used to the weight of the rider as he does with his frames.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Len J said:


> Tom Kellogg has indicated in conversation he wouldn't use a ti fork........he indicated (and I'm paraphrasing here) that the thickness of the steerer to ensure enough rigidity coupled w the thickness of the tines to ensure not twisting under brakeing would make it prohibitively heavy and unforgiving. I may have misunderstood, but I've read similar in other places. Which is why I asked your experience.
> 
> Here is a short link.. http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2/titanium-road-forks-do-they-work-4955.html
> 
> Len


Interesting. I've had no problems or indications of any problems whatsoever and I've ridden it on pretty rough stuff. I've also never heard anything about a failure of a ti mountain bike fork, other than a tale or two about the sketchy stuff that cam out of the old Soviet Union. I add the latter comment because I looked into a rigid ti mountain bike.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Pablo said:


> Interesting. I've had no problems or indications of any problems whatsoever and I've ridden it on pretty rough stuff. I've also never heard anything about a failure of a ti mountain bike fork, other than a tale or two about the sketchy stuff that cam out of the old Soviet Union. I add the latter comment because I looked into a rigid ti mountain bike.


Glad to hear your experience. I have considered a ti fork for a commuter and will keep it in mind. 

Any guess on the weight of the fork?

Len


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## backinthesaddle (Nov 22, 2006)

Meh...little more than a glorified townie bike.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

backinthesaddle said:


> Meh...little more than a glorified townie bike.


I'm guessing your bike is green. 

Beautiful bike, Pablo. As much a sculpture as a bicycle. But then, you already know that. From the recent pics it looks like the RD cable takes an odd bend when it exits the rear of the frame. That could just be my eyes, though.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Len J said:


> Any guess on the weight of the fork?


Not really. I'd have to ask the builder. He does make a fair number of road forks with less clearance which are probably lighter than mine. He built mine so it could take wider tires.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

backinthesaddle said:


> Meh...little more than a glorified townie bike.


I could see maybe calling it a glorified touring bike ... but calling it a glorified townie bike is just silly.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Pablo said:


> I could see maybe calling it a glorified touring bike ... but calling it a glorified townie bike is just silly.


The lines on that bike are awesome...........critics be damned.  

Len


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

Clever use of the twin tubes for cable routing.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Very beautiful bike, Pablo! I also like the Nokon cabling, they blend in for that really smooth Ti look.

Question on the cockpit: on the previous incarnation, you had a semi-moustache handlebar. How was the Campag shifting on that handlebar? Did you find any difficulty actuating the thumb levers? Thanks in advance!


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## Special Eyes (Feb 2, 2011)

Outstanding!


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

orange_julius said:


> Question on the cockpit: on the previous incarnation, you had a semi-moustache handlebar. How was the Campag shifting on that handlebar? Did you find any difficulty actuating the thumb levers? Thanks in advance!


Gawd, I hated those bars. I really wanted to like them because they look so cool and seemed to be functional. I've also really liked moustache bars on my fixie and have some sweepy bars on my 29ers. However, I hated the Origin 8 bars I had on this bike and took them off after a ride or two. There just didn't seem to be any place to put my hands that I found comfortable. Also, the thumb levers were really, really hard to use becasue of the angle. If you like these bars, I think you'd have to use hoods like Shimano ones without the thumb lever.


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