# Bit of buyer's remorse with Gator Hardshell



## bikewriter (Sep 2, 2002)

Read all about the GP4000S vs 4 Season vs Hardshell, pros and cons. Recently used the GP4000S in 25c and they were nice throughout the spring and summer. But with winter coming in and the handful of puncture flats in one week with the 4kS I went with the Hardshell for our chipseal-heavy roads and hope I'd not be changing tubes in bad weather.

Today, less than 6 minutes into a drizzly ride, my second ride on the Hardshell, the front went flat. Thought maybe it was a pinch flat since psi was about 85 (weigh 165); no way the tire got a puncture with its multiple layers of protection. Now I have a little bit of buyer's remorse....and thinking I should run my tubeless setup all the time, but that's another thread.

I really don't find the ride/suppleness of the Hardshell that bad. Front is 85, as stated, and rear was about 90. And I don't want to be the rider who gives up immediately on something. It is just a tire, after all, but I have the option to return them to my local Performance Bike.

Should I and just go pure tubeless all the time? Since it's not ride suppleness I'm complaining about I doubt the 4 Season will be any more puncture proof.


----------



## martinot (Aug 14, 2009)

A single flat or a couple of them do not classify the tire as puncture prone. But a consistent flatting does. Definitely not the case with any of the Contis you mentioned. Gatorskin is not supposed to flat that easily. Have you checked the tube and the tire for what caused the flat? I still think that Gatorskin is too rigid for road riding unless you go over really rough roads or are more of a commuter than a road cyclist. A seasonal change would be more of a GP 4000S -> 4-Season rather than 4000S -> Gatorskin. Just my 2 cents. Find the root cause before you change your plan by 180 deg.


----------



## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Well if the ride isn't bad and you say it wasn't a puncture it's not clear why you have a problem with the tires.


----------



## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

I went nearly 6,000mi on Gatorskins (not the same set, mind you) without having ever gotten a flat, and I ride long unpaved sections of road on a regular basis. Then I got three flats in one week. One was a major thorn, one a shank of glass, and one a self-tapping screw. Not sure any tire could have prvented those three flats.


----------



## bikewriter (Sep 2, 2002)

I was a bit vague in my original post, I thought "this has to be a snake bite since these tires are damn near 
Impossible to puncture" but it was indeed a small hole in the tube.


----------



## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Flatting is pretty random. Sometimes I'll get a couple of flats in a week and sometimes I'll go many months without a flat. You need to average over a pretty long time and even over a number of tires to get past the statistical fluctuations.


----------



## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

I weigh 190 and run about 85 psi up front... with no issues with GP 4S

anyway... no tire is completely puncture proof, unless you go solid rubber tires

I have seen a sidewall puncture on the gatorskins before...


----------



## bikewriter (Sep 2, 2002)

Thanks for all the input. Maybe I had lofty expectations. Given the good info here maybe I'll go with some 4 Seasons instead of the Hardshell, lose a little weight and gain some suppleness.


----------



## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

bikewriter said:


> Thanks for all the input. Maybe I had lofty expectations. Given the good info here maybe I'll go with some 4 Seasons instead of the Hardshell, lose a little weight and gain some suppleness.


I wore out a set of 4 Seasons and never thought they were better than a 4000 in flat resistance or wet riding. I actually thought the 4 Seasons were a little sketchy in the wet. The 4000 is a really good tire for all seasons and if you buy them via PBK, Ribble, or Shiny, they're not unreasonably priced.


----------



## framesti (Jan 26, 2009)

*Gator hard*



bikewriter said:


> Read all about the GP4000S vs 4 Season vs Hardshell, pros and cons. Recently used the GP4000S in 25c and they were nice throughout the spring and summer. But with winter coming in and the handful of puncture flats in one week with the 4kS I went with the Hardshell for our chipseal-heavy roads and hope I'd not be changing tubes in bad weather."
> 
> I tried 10years ago same problem. only grp4000 good. this old technology.


----------



## bikewriter (Sep 2, 2002)

*delete, start new thread*

Wrong post


----------



## scottzj (Oct 4, 2010)

I have run the Gator Skins now for 2 seasons and in some not so bike friendly areas with no issues. I think for the weight verse protection from the bad elements, they are great.


----------



## 67stang (Sep 17, 2012)

A little off topic, but curious why you guys run such low tire pressures? I assume you are running with tubes... I run 700x23 Conti GrandPrix's, with tubes, 110 psi. I ran 700x25 bontrager TL (cheap tires), also at 110 psi. I weigh 165. 
I know I run them a touch high, but even the Conti insert says to run em around 100psi....

so why are you guys in the 80's??


----------



## Rhymenocerus (Jul 17, 2010)

I get 5k out of a pair of gatorskins, they take a while to stretch out and can be very prone to pinch flats the first few tubes. I double check both beads before inflating. You have to be a little careful with them.

I weigh 145 and run 100psi rear 95psi front, they are a great training tire for the money and almost never flat.


----------



## slegros (Sep 22, 2009)

bikewriter said:


> I was a bit vague in my original post, I thought "this has to be a snake bite since these tires are damn near
> Impossible to puncture" but it was indeed a small hole in the tube.


Sometimes a snakebite can leave only 1 hole.... Check the tube for the location of the hole to determine if it was either a puncture or pinch flat.

What kind of tubes are you running? 

Lightweight race tubes like the Michelin Ultralights or Panaracer R'air for me seem to be more prone to pinch flats. I have all but eliminated pinch flats by going back to a std. thickness tube. I currently like the Mavic tubes for training on. A bit thick, a bit heavy, but convenient in that they come in a 21-25c size, and have a threadless valve stem like the Michelins. I have never pinch flatted a Mavic tube, and its either luck or the thickness of the tube helping in that regard.


----------



## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Experience*



67stang said:


> A little off topic, but curious why you guys run such low tire pressures? I assume you are running with tubes... I run 700x23 Conti GrandPrix's, with tubes, 110 psi. I ran 700x25 bontrager TL (cheap tires), also at 110 psi. I weigh 165.
> I know I run them a touch high, but even the Conti insert says to run em around 100psi....
> 
> so why are you guys in the 80's??


At your weight you almost certainly don't need 110 psi to prevent pinch flats unless you are a very incautious rider. Lower pressure means better traction, longer tire wear, more comfort, and possibly less rolling resistance as the tire deflects over road roughness rather than bouncing over it.


----------



## UrbanPrimitive (Jun 14, 2009)

67stang said:


> I know I run them a touch high, but even the Conti insert says to run em around 100psi....


Kerry nailed all the reasons for running lower pressure. But there's something worth noting in this sentence.

Continental says you _can_ run the Gators around 100psi. The maximum psi is 120. The _recommended_ psi is 95. For guys who are light enough there's no reason not to soften up the ride. I tried running the Gatorskins on my commuter at 110psi to get a feel for the difference. It was horrible. Back to 90psi for me.


----------



## mattotoole (Jan 3, 2008)

I bet you got a pinch flat and indeed they can have only one hole. I'm about the same weight or a little heavier, and 2/3 of my flats are still pinches at 100-105 psi in the rear.

Tubeless is still expensive and fussy. Why not just go bigger? I'm going to 28mm, or bigger if it'll fit.


----------



## bikewriter (Sep 2, 2002)

Probably more mental than anything, but I sold the Hardshells today locally and will run tubeless or go back to the 4000S in better weather.


----------



## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

mattotoole said:


> I bet you got a pinch flat and indeed they can have only one hole. I'm about the same weight or a little heavier, and 2/3 of my flats are still pinches at 100-105 psi in the rear.


Wow, I didn't think it was possible to pinch flat at those pressures below 200lbs. unless you have a slow leak or fill your tires up less than 2X a week. I'm 195lbs. and run my 25's at 90-95psi and have never pinch flatted here in socal (where the roads are admittedly in pretty good condition.)


----------



## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

Bullet-proof would be Schwalbe Durano Plus tires. but they ride pretty rough and are really only good for commuting.

Really the heaviest I'd go in a winter tire would be a Conti-4 season or Michelin Pro 4 Endurance.


----------



## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Speaking of 28mm...

I have a 28mm bontrager hardcase in the rear on a heavier wheel. It's fine for a trainer and training rides. But at a faster pace I can't get the pressure right -- either it's so low that it feels like the tire will roll(?) or so high so that the ride is harsh. 

28mm was an experiment. I don't think I'll go above 25mm again. 

Any suggestions from the forum?


----------



## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

nightfend said:


> Bullet-proof would be Schwalbe Durano Plus tires. but they ride pretty rough and are really only good for commuting.


I'm running 25c Durano Plus's right now. I think they ride a little better than Gatorskins and Hardshells and have a similar rolling resistance. They are heavier than Gatorskins but I don't care about that. I really hate flats and the Durano Plus doesn't disappoint in the flat resistance department (but neither did the Gatorskins or Hardshells.)


----------



## the sarge (Jan 10, 2011)

I'd say the gatorskins have been pretty good for me. I've got about 1700 miles without a flat. I'm 210 and run 105 rear and 95 front.


----------

