# Carbon or Aluminum



## jdlucero7 (Aug 4, 2015)

I went to test ride some trek bicycles. 
I rode a 2015 ALR Emonda 4 with 105 components. it felt good, i liked the handling of the bike, and it rode smoothly. Price was 1599
The second bike was 2014 Emonda SLR S 4 with tiagra components. Price was 1299
The sales man really kept pushing me on the ALR saying it was better, and that if i bought the carbon and wanted to upgrade to 105 components it would not benefit me. 

What do you guys think?


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

Buy the one that you think gave you the best ride. While 11 speed 105 is better than 10 speed Tiagra, Tiagra is still a very serviceable group. What matters most is the one which gave you the better ride.


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## tpcorr (Feb 27, 2014)

The second Emonda is probably an S4, not an SLR.

Tom


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I smell something fishy at that bike store, is it just me? 105 isn't better than Tiagra? Why is he pushing the one bike so hard? Can't sell them? more profit? more commission? maybe he gets points that he can use to purchase a bike for free with if he sells so much of such and such bike?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

You've offered no riding impressions of the second bike, only the ALR. Which did you like better?

That aside, I recommend branching out a bit. Visit more shops, ride more bikes. Then, if the Treks still stand out, go back and do back to back rides - out on the roads and of some duration. 

Lastly, remember that unless you're well versed in all aspects of bike ownership, the LBS you buy from matters, post purchase. Let that be your guide as you visit shops.


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## romrah (Mar 19, 2015)

PJ352 said:


> You've offered no riding impressions of the second bike, only the ALR. Which did you like better?
> 
> That aside, I recommend branching out a bit. Visit more shops, ride more bikes. Then, if the Treks still stand out, go back and do back to back rides - out on the roads and of some duration.
> 
> Lastly, remember that unless you're well versed in all aspects of bike ownership, the LBS you buy from matters, post purchase. Let that be your guide as you visit shops.


great advice.. It looks like you have few decent shops around and if you went to Hyland Family Bike it appear they have some decent Felts and Giant brands in that price range with good 105 group sets. Ride them all...


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

froze said:


> I smell something fishy at that bike store, is it just me? 105 isn't better than Tiagra? Why is he pushing the one bike so hard? Can't sell them? more profit? more commission? maybe he gets points that he can use to purchase a bike for free with if he sells so much of such and such bike?


It's a 2014, and with the 2016s coming out, he likely wants it off the floor.


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## ColaJacket (Apr 13, 2015)

mpre53 said:


> Buy the one that you think gave you the best ride. While 11 speed 105 is better than 10 speed Tiagra, Tiagra is still a very serviceable group. What matters most is the one which gave you the better ride.


This. Buy the one that fits and rides the best. The 105 group is a little better than the Tiagra, but the Tiagra is perfectly good for someone buying their first road bike. 

Also agree that you should test ride some bikes at a different LBS just to see if other brand's geometries fit you a little better. 

GH


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

mpre53 said:


> It's a 2014, and with the 2016s coming out, he likely wants it off the floor.


I would have thought that originally but the salesjerk is pushing the 2015 ALR not the 2104 SLR. Which makes me think there is a bigger commission or more bonus points.


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

Did you get to try a CAAD10 yet, I remember you were looking at one of those... 

Anyway you'll find plenty of threads on Internet about aluminum vs carbon. I feel like manufacturers pushed hard to get consumers to buy carbon in the late 2000s but over the last few years aluminum has made a strong comeback. One reason often cited by people is consumer is durability in the sense of crashing, etc... for instance, some people who race are willing to do so with their aluminum bike but not carbon, because they know they will crash at some point.

Personally, with Shimano components, regardless of generation (10-speed, 11-speed, etc) I've always felt like a line was driven between Tiagra and 105. 105, Ultegra, and Dura-Ace have always seemed to share a lot of characteristics. It's true Tiagra should work fine if you are on a budget with your first ever road bike, but if you have a strong feeling you will get into this, then start higher now.


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## Social Climber (Jan 16, 2013)

Maybe the guy honestly thought the 105 would be a better purchase. Did anyone think of that? Personally if the ride quality was equal I think 105 is a big enough step up from Tiagra to pay the extra money (and get the later model). He is also correct that you could find it cost prohibitive to upgrade the groupset later on. People do it, but often times getting a whole new bike isn't that much more money.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Social Climber said:


> Maybe the guy honestly thought the 105 would be a better purchase. Did anyone think of that? Personally if the ride quality was equal I think 105 is a big enough step up from Tiagra to pay the extra money (and get the later model). He is also correct that you could find it cost prohibitive to upgrade the groupset later on. People do it, but often times getting a whole new bike isn't that much more money.


This is true. I didn't like Tiagra personally, it felt a bit loose, not smooth nor as fast acting, and didn't feel well put together...in my opinion of course. However you can at some LBS's ask them to swap parts for better parts at the time of sale not after you ride it, and all they'l charge you is the price difference between the two and some labor. 

On the other side of the coin a person could buy a bike with Tiagra, ride it till something breaks then upgrade the broken part with 105, this way they're not shelling out a bunch of money all at once to upgrade all the components, kind of like paying for the components on time without the interest.

Or maybe by the time a particular Tiagra component needs to be replaced the person may need a new bike anyways due to outgrowing the Tiagra one.

Lots of angles to look at this sort of thing.


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## Shuffleman (Sep 4, 2013)

Buy the bike that fits you best as comfort trumps everything else. Tiagra is not as good as 105 but it is only a marginal difference. In the end, you ride the frame. I would pay more attention to that and then worry about the groupset.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

jdlucero7 said:


> I went to test ride some trek bicycles.
> I rode a 2015 ALR Emonda 4 with 105 components. it felt good, i liked the handling of the bike, and it rode smoothly. Price was 1599
> The second bike was 2014 Emonda SLR S 4 with tiagra components. Price was 1299


$300 vs getting a yesteryear bike off the floor. I'd think the LBS could call the incentives even in their position.



> The sales man really kept pushing me on the ALR saying it was better (1), and that if i bought the carbon and wanted to upgrade to 105 components it would not benefit me(2).
> 
> What do you guys think?


1) Better perhaps in taking abuse from a beginner in terms of riding and general handling/wrenching. That's not to say carbon is delicate, but for any beginner I'd personally put them on alloy.

2) The extra speed/gear that comes with current 105 vs Tiagra is a nice benefit imo. It wipes out cassette selection dilemmas, albeit which I doubt you'll have as a beginner. An 11 speed, 11-28 cassette is such a do-all range without sacrificing spacing.

In the sense of pricing the parts replacement, it depends. DIY and buying from overseas would've been around $400 at best if you don't need new wheels.

If you paid shop prices and labor you'd probably be paying double that, effectively making the SLR package $4-500 more expensive than the ALR...and that's if you don't need new wheels. In this sense, the salesman is right. You could've just forked over for an Emonda S5 build and save downtime if the shop had it at a reduced price too. I assume this wasn't an option or else I would've imagined him pushing it on you.

So basically, you got ideal beginner platform and the better drivetrain group. At worst, the salesman may have secretly not wanted to spend his time rebuilding a bike from Tiagra to 105. Some snob factor, but I really wouldn't do this to my own bike either. Bottom line is you didn't actually miss out on anything, whether it be rebuilding the S4 or ordering an S5 at a similar discount. You probably ended up with the best deal anyway.


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## Roland44 (Mar 21, 2013)

Shuffleman said:


> Buy the bike that fits you best as comfort trumps everything else. Tiagra is not as good as 105 but it is only a marginal difference. In the end, you ride the frame. I would pay more attention to that and then worry about the groupset.


Second that, well said.


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## GOTA (Aug 27, 2012)

It's also possible that the salesman doesn't know what he's talking about. I've seen some of that type at the larger shops. I once heard an argument between 2 salesman about whether SRAM was a division of Shimano. One was absolutely convinced that was the case and was telling the other to look it up. Sometimes you have to come to your own conclusions


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## Shuffleman (Sep 4, 2013)

GOTA said:


> It's also possible that the salesman doesn't know what he's talking about. I've seen some of that type at the larger shops. I once heard an argument between 2 salesman about whether SRAM was a division of Shimano. One was absolutely convinced that was the case and was telling the other to look it up. Sometimes you have to come to your own conclusions


One could make the argument that Campy "owns" both SRAMM and Shimano.


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## ColaJacket (Apr 13, 2015)

Shuffleman said:


> One could make the argument that Campy "owns" both SRAMM and Shimano.


Others might make the argument that Shimano owns Campy and SRAM.

Especially if you look at market share. 

GH


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## devillee1993 (Aug 20, 2015)

Well, i'd like to say 105 groupset is quite good and it is the entry 11s groupset. All the bikes should be 11s dude so don't buy a tiagra bike. I didn't mean Tiagra is bad or sth else, just 11s is quite good and once you need to find some component to repair, 11s' component will be much easy to find in the future....As for carbon or AL, well carbon is good but emonda s is just entry series of carbon bike. The S' frame is not much such better than ALR. So my final device is just but a Emonda s5 with 105 groupset if you could increase budget. Otherwise, ALR with 105 is ok and you could save some money to spend on other accessories.


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## Shuffleman (Sep 4, 2013)

ColaJacket said:


> Others might make the argument that Shimano owns Campy and SRAM.
> 
> Especially if you look at market share.
> 
> GH


One could definitely make that argument. Of course when it comes to market share that is an entirely different story. Chrysler has more market share than Lexus. Which would you rather own?
In all honesty, all 3 are good. I would have no problem owning Shimano on a road bike again. It is really a subjective thing.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Shuffleman said:


> One could definitely make that argument. Of course when it comes to market share that is an entirely different story. Chrysler has more market share than Lexus. Which would you rather own?
> In all honesty, all 3 are good. I would have no problem owning Shimano on a road bike again. It is really a subjective thing.


Not the best analogy.

Shimano? SRAM? Campy? You'll find plenty of folks here who love any one of them. In the end, it really amounts to religion more than anything else. Personally, I'm a Shimano guy, but that's just me.

I don't know very many people who would take a Chrysler over a Lexus.


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## devillee1993 (Aug 20, 2015)

Sram is lighter and Shimano is more smooth and easy to use. Camp is just totally another system, not compatible to other two guys. But still good. Hard to say which one is better, just based on people's taste.


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## Shuffleman (Sep 4, 2013)

Lombard said:


> Not the best analogy.
> 
> Shimano? SRAM? Campy? You'll find plenty of folks here who love any one of them. In the end, it really amounts to religion more than anything else. Personally, I'm a Shimano guy, but that's just me.
> 
> I don't know very many people who would take a Chrysler over a Lexus.


As with my first post, I was playing around a little. None of the groupsets is comparable to Chrysler. All 3 are quite good. My personal preference is Campy mainly for the size of the hoods.


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