# Gila Time Trial results



## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Leipheimer crushes it. 32:59
Zirbel second in 33:52
Armstrong third, I think at 34:22


----------



## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

this angers me. 

maybe "anger" is too strong a word. but it sure seems to me like the college kids have crashed the homecoming dance to steal all the good looking girls, just to make sure they still have "it."

i know some people say it should be an honor to ride against the three amigos and all, and maybe it should be, but it still seems like there is a lack of class in showing up and winning. even if you do pledge to not keep the money.


----------



## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

weltyed said:


> this angers me.
> 
> maybe "anger" is too strong a word. but it sure seems to me like the college kids have crashed the homecoming dance to steal all the good looking girls, just to make sure they still have "it."
> 
> I know some people say it should be an honor to ride against the three amigos and all, and maybe it should be, but it still seems like there is a lack of class in showing up and winning. even if you do pledge to not keep the money.


I respectfully disagree.

The race _desperately_ needed the exposure. The cost may be paid, in part, by the other lower level racers. But if SRAM (Astana's sponsor) had not stepped in..those other racers would be sitting on their butts. Instead, they are racing their bikes with tougher competition than imagined.

I wonder what those high schoolers think. anybody know? are they disappointed? or are they happy?
For myself, I would be totally stoked to try to show my best against Horner, LL, and LA. 

What an awesome life memory for a racer and the opportunty to know one's measure against the best.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

It must be an amazing feeling to see your season goal be turned into a side kick just because a couple of pros are bored.  



JohnHenry said:


> I respectfully disagree.
> 
> The race _desperately_ needed the exposure. The cost may be paid, in part, by the other lower level racers. But if SRAM (Astana's sponsor) had not stepped in..those other racers would be sitting on their butts. Instead, they are racing their bikes with tougher competition than imagined.
> 
> ...


----------



## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

den bakker said:


> It must be an amazing feeling to see your season goal be turned into a side kick just because a couple of pros are bored.


I'm sure they're all crying themselves to sleep every night.:ciappa:the humanity_!!!_


----------



## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

den bakker said:


> It must be an amazing feeling to see your season goal be turned into a side kick just because a couple of pros are bored.


Beats staying home, which is what they would have done if the race was canceled.


----------



## JayZee (Sep 3, 2008)

den bakker said:


> It must be an amazing feeling to see your season goal be turned into a side kick just because a couple of pros are bored.


For any rider wanting to take their careers to the next level, then any chance to show what you can do against the top pros should be a great opportunity. How many more people are going to hear the names of Peter Stetina or Tom Zirbel because of the three amigos being present? Obviously those names are somewhat known in the U.S., but they may get more interest with international teams looking to pick up some North American riders, who knows. 

I guess it comes down whether it is better to win a race almost no one pays attention to or to get second in a race that everyone is following because of who is taking first? I would guess Zirbel is happy to have another chance to match himself against two of the top time trialers in the world and even beat Armstrong. 

The only downside I see to the three amigos doing the race is the effect it had on BMC, that totally sucked for those guys.


----------



## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

JayZee said:


> For any rider wanting to take their careers to the next level, then any chance to show what you can do against the top pros should be a great opportunity. How many more people are going to hear the names of Peter Stetina or Tom Zirbel because of the three amigos being present? Obviously those names are somewhat known in the U.S., but they may get more interest with international teams looking to pick up some North American riders, who knows.
> 
> I guess it comes down whether it is better to win a race almost no one pays attention to or to get second in a race that everyone is following because of who is taking first? I would guess Zirbel is happy to have another chance to match himself against two of the top time trialers in the world and even beat Armstrong.
> 
> The only downside I see to the three amigos doing the race is the effect it had on BMC, that totally sucked for those guys.


I agree, BMC got the hose.


----------



## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

JayZee said:


> For any rider wanting to take their careers to the next level, then any chance to show what you can do against the top pros should be a great opportunity. How many more people are going to hear the names of Peter Stetina or Tom Zirbel because of the three amigos being present? Obviously those names are somewhat known in the U.S., but they may get more interest with international teams looking to pick up some North American riders, who knows.
> 
> I guess it comes down whether it is better to win a race almost no one pays attention to or to get second in a race that everyone is following because of who is taking first? I would guess Zirbel is happy to have another chance to match himself against two of the top time trialers in the world and even beat Armstrong.
> 
> The only downside I see to the three amigos doing the race is the effect it had on BMC, that totally sucked for those guys.


I totally agree :thumbsup: 

Personally, if I were a domestic pro I'd want the chance to prove myself and my abilities against the elite of the cycling world and to see how close I really was. I would relish an opportunity such as this.

Complaining that they are there beating up on the kids is basically saying...I'm not very good and I only compete in races that I know I can win so I can feel better about myself. What a crock!


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

jorgy said:


> Beats staying home, which is what they would have done if the race was canceled.


SRAM stepped in as a sponsor in march. The three stooges decided to participate in mid april. What is the connection here?


----------



## CoffeeBean2 (Aug 6, 2005)

Was anybody angry when Horner came back to race in the States for a few years? I guess since he can race at the ProTour level, he was sandbagging those years he raced for Mercury, Prime Alliance, Saturn and Webcor Builders.


----------



## ECXkid04 (Jul 21, 2004)

JohnHenry said:


> I respectfully disagree.
> 
> The race _desperately_ needed the exposure. The cost may be paid, in part, by the other lower level racers. But if SRAM (Astana's sponsor) had not stepped in..those other racers would be sitting on their butts. Instead, they are racing their bikes with tougher competition than imagined.
> 
> ...


I tend to agree. I almost find it a little disrespectful to Levi. The guy has worked his a** off for his entire career riding for others (for the most part). He will always live in the shadows of riders like Lance, Contador... For a guy who spends more time on the bike in a year than most of us do in decades, cut the guy some slack. If I was a domestic Pro wanting to win the Gila, I would want to know that, at the end of the day, I was the strongest/most deserved rider at the race. When I wrestled in high school, I would have been personally insulted if somebody better than I let me win out of pity... The best rider should win, and that's what's happening. I am sure the other racers understand.


----------



## teoteoteo (Sep 8, 2002)

In my experience pro riders and those with ambitions to be pros want to race against the best and compete against the best. When I would race against pro Mtb'er as an amateur I learned more by doing what I could to stay on their wheel as long as could, than if I diced it up with the same doofus week in and week out. If you don't think Tom Zirbel is in a better position career wise today than he was yesterday than your sadly mistaken...


----------



## wiz525 (Dec 31, 2007)

To be honest, I would have paid no real attention to this race until these 3 cowboys showed up. Now I'm interested, not so much in those 3, but who else is there and how they're stacking up. Great press for a lot of these guys I'd think.


----------



## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

den bakker said:


> SRAM stepped in as a sponsor in march. The three stooges decided to participate in mid april. What is the connection here?


If you don't see a connection, you need to open your eyes a bit wider.


----------



## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

he's right - it's entirely a coincidence that Astana rides SRAM; I doubt SRAM has thought twice about being the only component besides Shimano Armstrong has raced on in his career. I bet it never dawned on the SRAM marketing guys to think sponsoring a race and having a SRAM-equipped Astana participate would boost sales. Probably the Trek guys are wondering if there's any connection between Armstrong riding their bikes and their ten thousand percent or so increase in sales...


----------



## spinwax (Nov 28, 2007)

WOW! I am honestly blown away at some of the comments on here. Reminds me of some of the racers I know. They go on the reg.com site to see who is registered and if there is some guys there that have a winning record they don't go because they don't have a chance. 

I am sure the pros that are there are honored to race against guys like LA and Levi. All it is going to do is make them want to work harder. 

This stuff cracks me up.


----------



## CycloCross (Feb 26, 2004)

You gotta be kidding, lets see you get beat by someone faster in race and its not fair because they are faster. That makes sense to me. Its a competition


----------



## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

CycloCross said:


> You gotta be kidding, lets see you get beat by someone faster in race and its not fair because they are faster. That makes sense to me. Its a competition


+1

Honestly, I bet that most of those guys are honored to have the opportunity to race with legends.


----------



## loudog (Jul 22, 2008)

we wouldnt even be talking about this race if lance and co hadnt shown up. its a pro race with pro riders and i dont hear anyone teams complaining about a higher level of competition or more exposure...


----------



## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

Yeah, where's all the "Power" of these teams with full rosters? They should have somewhat of an advantage over just three guys, one of whom is 38yrs old and hasn't raced for three years.

Everyone encounters 'sandbaggers' which I don't really consider the "five balled threesome" anyhow At least they are all from the USA, racing in a National Calender Race.. These guys are all Pros in their category. It's just they(the boys in Black) are better pros than most of the US squad guys...so far.

It's cool to see how the domestic pros stack up against the world class riders...


----------



## rook (Apr 5, 2009)

weltyed said:


> this angers me.
> 
> maybe "anger" is too strong a word. but it sure seems to me like the college kids have crashed the homecoming dance to steal all the good looking girls, just to make sure they still have "it."
> 
> i know some people say it should be an honor to ride against the three amigos and all, and maybe it should be, but it still seems like there is a lack of class in showing up and winning. even if you do pledge to not keep the money.



I respectfully agree. Per the rules, they shouldn't have been allowed to ride the race, but a UCI exemption at the last minute meant that the race organizers had to uninvite a team.


----------



## function (Jun 20, 2008)

> Levi may have the most talented domestiques in the race but there’s only two of them and there’s 4 days to go. They want a hard training camp, so we’ll give it to them. -- Pete Stetina


http://www.twowheeltales.com/wordpress/?tag=tour-of-the-gila

As a racer, you have to enjoy being flogged  .. And occasionally being on the other end of the stick!


----------



## lucer0 (Apr 13, 2007)

I read the blog of one domestic pro racer because he's in my college conference, and he was bummed when LA and company weren't gonna be allowed to race. To sit on the wheel of guys like that has to be awesome.


----------



## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

no, no, no, noooooooooooooooo..it's soooooooooooo _unfair_:ciappa: lol. Everyone should race on the same bike, with everybody the same height and weight and same pedals and shoes and same training and same tire pressure and, and, we could all hold hands across the finish line of TIE.

now, *THAT* is bike racing


----------



## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

true, i probably wouldnt be paying this much attention to the race had the three amigos not shown up. i would be paying more attention to the tour of romandie. however, i would be lying if i didnt say i wanted to see this on universal sports. i mean, i have seen a camera crew there in some stills...
i think what really got my goat was watching that first mellow johnny video they posted. they seemed to have an air that they were slumming. i know pros in all sports need swagger, but seeing it like that got me a bit.

i will say i found the second and third videos were better. seeing horner load up, talk about his arm hurting (not his legs), and then seeing them on the bus before stage 2 seemed more...nice? i guess they werent displaying a full-blown cocky side. "horner wants snickers and coke," "i mispronounce levi's last name all the time," etc.

EDIT: i must admit i am somewhat of a hypocrite. i like seeing horner race in the states. especially last year when he carted that rider over the line. and when he does jinglerock in iowa city. i missed my chance seein him last year, but that was the race he broke. i was sad at that. and i really hope nothing like that happens to these guys during the gila. that would truly be bad, and MANY people would be upset.


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

weltyed said:


> true, i probably wouldnt be paying this much attention to the race had the three amigos not shown up. i would be paying more attention to the tour of romandie. however, i would be lying if i didnt say i wanted to see this on universal sports. i mean, i have seen a camera crew there in some stills...
> i think what really got my goat was watching that first mellow johnny video they posted. they seemed to have an air that they were slumming. i know pros in all sports need swagger, but seeing it like that got me a bit.
> 
> i will say i found the second and third videos were better. seeing horner load up, talk about his arm hurting (not his legs), and then seeing them on the bus before stage 2 seemed more...nice? i guess they werent displaying a full-blown cocky side. "horner wants snickers and coke," "i mispronounce levi's last name all the time," etc.
> ...


Maybe. Maybe not.

I thought the video was just out of fun and a laid back nature. Never thought about it being all swagger-ish or so till you mentioned it in fact. 

But I definitely agree that the 3 Astana guys riding is only good for the race and the other top finishers of the race.

People are now more interested to see Taylor Phinney's result for the TT. Zirbel gets more exposure and has a bigger chance of making it to a better team.

The race gets more exposure and are now on the "I want to do that race" list of even more teams. More sponsors could be drawn to it.

The domestic riders get a chance to meet the pros and race alongside them, and of course, some get to talk to them and learn a thing or 2.

They get to test their legs against them and know how much work they need to put in and seriously consider their goals (for the better ones that have a shot) etc.

It's all good. Sure, they don't get to win now but the overall experience has got to outdo the minor negativities. 

//Horner was a stud in that race last year indeed.


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

ECXkid04 said:


> I tend to agree. I almost find it a little disrespectful to Levi. The guy has worked his a** off for his entire career riding for others (for the most part). He will always live in the shadows of riders like Lance, Contador... For a guy who spends more time on the bike in a year than most of us do in decades, cut the guy some slack. If I was a domestic Pro wanting to win the Gila, I would want to know that, at the end of the day, I was the strongest/most deserved rider at the race. When I wrestled in high school, I would have been personally insulted if somebody better than I let me win out of pity... The best rider should win, and that's what's happening. I am sure the other racers understand.


Actually, Levi was considering not winning before stage 1.


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

teoteoteo said:


> In my experience pro riders and those with ambitions to be pros want to race against the best and compete against the best. When I would race against pro Mtb'er as an amateur I learned more by doing what I could to stay on their wheel as long as could, than if I diced it up with the same doofus week in and week out. If you don't think Tom Zirbel is in a better position career wise today than he was yesterday than your sadly mistaken...


+1.

I didn't know who Tom Zirbel is till yesterday. Now, I've learnt more about him from that race and from checking the internet.


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Here's a twitter picture of Levi:

By the way, it seems that Lance doesn't have the power output he did back then and now, he's in good form but age could well be a factor. Just a thought.

Hmm, of course, Levi is one heck of a TT-ist too so, maybe Armstrong back then would have just edged out Levi now, or lose by just a little bit.


----------



## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

den bakker said:


> SRAM stepped in as a sponsor in march. The three stooges decided to participate in mid april. What is the connection here?



Armstrong owns a piece of SRAM


----------



## bauerb (Jan 18, 2006)

umm, levi's been racing all season in peak form. LA was barely getting his legs after 3 years then broke his shoulder. he's a minute down and you blame age? wake-up time...
the best thing that could possibly happen to an aspiring domestic pro is to have the 3 astana guys show up. reality check. you may be a big fish in a little pond, maybe thinking your are ready for europe, but you will never get the chance to find out, until...., the guys show at your local race. sure, maybe you don't get top ten, but what you are getting is invaluable: a benchmark against the best in the world. if you can't handle that, you don't really have a viable chance at pro. I am 39. I don't judge myself based on racing 39 year olds. I race every Cat I can. I want universal reletive comparisons. if a 23 year old hot shot beats me, I don't blame age, I blame fitness. every wannabe at the Gila should have their notebooks out scribbling like mad. they may never get this chance again.


----------



## bikesarethenewblack (Dec 30, 2008)

First off, if you don''t know who Zirbel is you're not paying attention. He did awesome at last years Tour of Cali and put in a long attack that just barely made it. The guy is incredible. So start paying attention - Bissel is awesome and there are teams outside of Astana. 

Secondly, the big disappointment is Landis. That guy is going down faster than Hamilton. I miss him, he was a total power rider.

As for this race - the three amigos aren't going to save it going forward. BMC got screwed and the mellow Johnny's thing is totally stupid. 

The bigger question is why is Johan there. The guy clearly doesn't give a rats A$$ about conti.


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

bauerb said:


> umm, levi's been racing all season in peak form. LA was barely getting his legs after 3 years then broke his shoulder. he's a minute down and you blame age? wake-up time...
> the best thing that could possibly happen to an aspiring domestic pro is to have the 3 astana guys show up. reality check. you may be a big fish in a little pond, maybe thinking your are ready for europe, but you will never get the chance to find out, until...., the guys show at your local race. sure, maybe you don't get top ten, but what you are getting is invaluable: a benchmark against the best in the world. if you can't handle that, you don't really have a viable chance at pro. I am 39. I don't judge myself based on racing 39 year olds. I race every Cat I can. I want universal reletive comparisons. if a 23 year old hot shot beats me, I don't blame age, I blame fitness. every wannabe at the Gila should have their notebooks out scribbling like mad. they may never get this chance again.


Agreed on the domestic pro assessment. Some would know that they're closer to Europe than they thought. Some would find out that they need a lot more work. 

Well, I said just a thought about Armstrong and his age. I get that idea mainly because while I know he's not in top form, he doesn't seem to look like he's 'there' but of course, he always gets there by July so that's the only time we'll know the real answer.

I do suspect that age might be a small factor that prevents him from being as good as he was. 

Then again, I also think he could be back at his best come the Tour despite age so....


----------



## jupiterrn (Sep 22, 2006)

Papa! Papa! The Italians, They are Coming!


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

bikesarethenewblack said:


> First off, if you don''t know who Zirbel is you're not paying attention. He did awesome at last years Tour of Cali and put in a long attack that just barely made it. The guy is incredible. So start paying attention - Bissel is awesome and there are teams outside of Astana.
> 
> Secondly, the big disappointment is Landis. That guy is going down faster than Hamilton. I miss him, he was a total power rider.
> 
> ...


Erm... Ok.... So I wasn't paying attention but seriously, this is the first time I've heard about Zirbel. 

Yes, there are many other teams out there. Nobody said anything about only Astana existing anyway right?

Johan is there because his riders are there?? Contador isn't racing now is he? 

Landis is seemingly fading into oblivion.


----------



## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

den bakker said:


> SRAM stepped in as a sponsor in march. The three stooges decided to participate in mid april. What is the connection here?


They found a sponsor a month prior to the race......
Next year they may not be so fortunate.


----------



## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

*How about this?...*

Maybe the Tour of Gila, TOC, Tour down Under, etc etc...Maybe they are giving the "Euro-Czars" of the cycling establishment something to think about..

.Maybe these big names/big public interest entries, by an increasing number of world class riders, into formerly unimportant races are giving some of the up and coming riders a little hope of a place to work other than for the so called "real racing" guys who think they are calling all the shots, and always will..

I mean, some of the recent 'stunts' that have been pulled by the "Euro-centric" sanctioning groups *have* been a little stupid, eh?. It ain't in the best interest of bike racing to make the riders perform however the "bosses" want them to..."Just because you can"..

.If the riders want to race and the public wants to watch, maybe there's a developing 'new game' around the world in places other than Europe...Another way for talented riders to get compensated for the work they do on the bikes..Hopefully. There seems to be some developing interest in other than the TDF lately.

Don Hanson


----------



## SicBith (Jan 21, 2008)

den bakker said:


> SRAM stepped in as a sponsor in march. The three stooges decided to participate in mid april. What is the connection here?


The connection here is you're a dbag


----------



## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Gnarly 928 said:


> Maybe the Tour of Gila, TOC, Tour down Under, etc etc...Maybe they are giving the "Euro-Czars" of the cycling establishment something to think about..
> 
> .Maybe these big names/big public interest entries, by an increasing number of world class riders, into formerly unimportant races are giving some of the up and coming riders a little hope of a place to work other than for the so called "real racing" guys who think they are calling all the shots, and always will..
> 
> ...


So basically, you're saying the UCI is effed up right?


----------



## ftmsb (Jul 15, 2008)

I like Chris Horner's reaction to the "Should you even be here?" attitude:

"_t's a pro race. That's all that needs to be said. Lance is a pro, Levi is a pro, I'm a pro; it's a pro race. If you don't want to race with the pros, stay amateur."

(http://www.velonews.com/article/91509/velonews-sits-down-with-lance-levi-and-chris)_


----------



## rook (Apr 5, 2009)

SicBith,
Just because you didn't agree with den bakker's comments doesn't make him a douchebag. He doesn't have the most popular opinion on this thread, but you're post calling him a douchebag is out of line.


----------



## lalahsghost (Aug 27, 2007)

JohnHenry said:


> no, no, no, noooooooooooooooo..it's soooooooooooo _unfair_:ciappa: lol. Everyone should race on the same bike, with everybody the same height and weight and same pedals and shoes and same training and same tire pressure and, and, we could all hold hands across the finish line of TIE.
> 
> now, *THAT* is bike racing


 Sounds more like a tree hugging commie circle jerk to me...  Definitely not bike racing 

let the best man win!


----------



## teoteoteo (Sep 8, 2002)

bikesarethenewblack said:


> The bigger question is why is Johan there. The guy clearly doesn't give a rats A$$ about conti.


Do you know for fact that Alberto would want Johan with him? Would it be wise for Johan to be spending time with Conti directly before a grand tour he's not even participating in? 

Also, the Johan Brunyeel Cycling Academy is in Albuquerque, NM and seems to have Gila on their schedule. 

http://www.cyclingcenter.com/agenda_main.asp


----------



## SicBith (Jan 21, 2008)

rook said:


> SicBith,
> Just because you didn't agree with den bakker's comments doesn't make him a douchebag. He doesn't have the most popular opinion on this thread, but you're post calling him a douchebag is out of line.


You're right for sure, but going back and reading all the posts, and the wave of negativity that started flowing because of his post got to me, so I called him out. Having those guys at the tour was great for cycling in the US, and the positive attention given to the ToG might have saved more races in the US (Philly just got sponsors). 
All of the reactions to having LA, LL, and CH in the field seemed to have been positive. The guy who won the crit said he never thought he would have the chance to pull up along side LA in a race. The yard stick provided by having those guys in the race could have answered a lot of questions for U23 riders, or guys looking to go to Europe.
As Chris Horner said it's a pro race, we're all pros, do amateur races if you don't want to race with pros.
And the best part NO BS DOPING NEWS


----------



## sbsbiker (Mar 29, 2008)

Think of the exposure that LA could give to smaller USA races if he gave up this Euro schedule and took to the roads of USA with Livestrong full time. This may be what's needed to get American races on the public radar, and pull cycling out of the back of the closet. Wouldnt' that be a good thing?


----------



## n26ryan (Dec 14, 2005)

http://www.velonews.com/article/91590/fly-v-s-zajicek-wins-final-gila-stage-outsprinting


----------

