# Should LA go to jail?



## MRFIXALL4 (May 19, 2003)

Should LA go to jail? What he did was commit fruad in my opinion. That is a crime. It doesn't matter that everybody in the sport supposidly doped, it was still deceptive and greedy. I think that should warrant jail time.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

MRFIXALL4 said:


> Should LA go to jail? What he did was commit fruad in my opinion. That is a crime. It doesn't matter that everybody in the sport supposidly doped, it was still deceptive and greedy. I think that should warrant jail time.


There are at least a few countries whose laws agree with you. And others where they could be bent to fit, with a clever enough prosecutor and the right circumstances.

but don't hold your breath for it.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

He committed perjury. I think this is why he will not confess. He should do some jail time. He knew damn well he was lying under oath. The lawyer in that video asks him several times if he understands that he is under oath, etc. Man, that guy has ball.


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## jarbiker (Sep 29, 2009)

*This*



burgrat said:


> . Man, that guy has ball.




is quite funny!


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## cmdrpiffle (Mar 28, 2006)

burgrat said:


> He committed perjury. I think this is why he will not confess. He should do some jail time. He knew damn well he was lying under oath. The lawyer in that video asks him several times if he understands that he is under oath, etc. Man, that guy has ball.


Snort! :thumbsup:


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

He should only go to jail if any prosecuting authority can prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he committed criminal acts within their jurisdiction, within the applicable statute of limitations.

He is still a US citizen with the same rights as anyone else.


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## billium v2.0 (Oct 22, 2012)

For a narcissistic personality, I'd suspect that Mr. Armstrong's current existence is a far greater punishment in his mind than any jail time.

Fair to say he is/has been a polarizing personality for cyclists. Reading through previous posts over the years, folks that bother posting either love him or hate him. Haters have been validated, fans disappointed and worse.

Regardless of where you/I stood/stand as a cyclist/lover of the sport/et al, regarding Mr. Armstrong's legacy, our investment was limited. You think Mr. Armstrong is reviled here, bring his name up in the cancer community. 

Strip him of his titles, remove several $million of his assets, put him in jail, let Landis remove his other testical with a rusty/dull butter knife, not sure it would be any more painful to his type of personality than where he's at right now. 

As someone posted recently, "Karma's a bitc*".


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

mpre53 said:


> He should only go to jail if any prosecuting authority can prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he committed criminal acts within their jurisdiction, within the applicable statute of limitations.
> 
> He is still a US citizen with the same rights as anyone else.


Agreed. If he gets his day in court and loses it - yes indeed.

If criminal charges connot be proven or the statute of limitations has run out on such charges - absolutly not.

He has been stripped of his victories, lost his sponsors, stepped down from Livestrong, been told to return his prize monies etc. as well as had all this done to him in the public eye. If there are criminal charges supportable buy admissable evidence - then of course the law demands that he be prosecuted - but barring that, I see no reason to send him to jail.

I dislike LA and the things he and his cohorts did as much as anyone else on these boards, but let's concentrate on re-building and not being vindictive.

This sport needs to move beyond Lance instead of dwelling on him.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

This is a very good question. Here's my .02. My opinion is not based on any "legal laws", it is based on my "common sense", my own feeling of "what is just".

First of all I don't believe dopers are criminals. They are cheaters. Therefore, they should not go to jail.

However, when dopers start to go beyond doping themselves and start to reap great FINANCIAL rewards based on their winnings which is assisted by dope, then it is at this point that I have to label them as financial fraud, and therefore a criminal. It is not much different then calling Bernie Madoff a financial criminal. Armstrong has all the elements of a financial criminal. The cover up, the intimidation of people, the paid outs to officials to look the other way, the harassment of whistleblowers. All these elements are what the crooks do on Wall Street. 

Armstrong is not your typical "shoot me up with a needle" type of doper. He went well beyond that.

And honestly, if he didn't help with some of the cancer awareness thing (even though Livestrong itself was at one time a PR machine for Armstrong), I would say throw the fool in jail. But because he did help some along the cancer front, I have to say he has some (however deceiving) redeeming quality here. And because of this, I will say "no jail". Yes, I'm aware that Livestrong was a shield and Armstrong did it to shield himself.

At the end of the day, my "humanistic scale" tells me that Armstrong should not be thrown in jail. However, he should be made to pay back all that monetary rewards, all of it. Take his house away need be. After all, he did ruin a lot of folk's lives and money making ability, and this can't go unpunished.


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## Data_God (Oct 9, 2012)

billium v2.0 said:


> Haters have been validated, fans disappointed and worse.
> 
> .


This is blatantly false. The huge majority of people who you are trying to fit that label of "hater" to are anything but. We/They Love cycling. And the reaction that they have is perfectly justified towards someone who tried to destroy it.

And by applying that derogatory term it puts you squarely in the camp of Lance FanBoi ....

Bill


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## g29er (Mar 28, 2009)

> Strip him of his titles, remove several $million of his assets, put him in jail, let Landis remove his other testical with a rusty/dull butter knife, not sure it would be any more painful to his type of personality than where he's at right now.


Kind of an inappropriate comment don't you think? How does what you said make you any better than the person you are lynching?


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## Dresden (May 26, 2009)

I think he deserves everything that's happened to him so far, but no, I don't think he should go to jail.


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## thegock (May 16, 2006)

*Yeah*



burgrat said:


> He committed perjury. I think this is why he will not confess. He
> should do some jail time. He knew damn well he was lying under oath. The lawyer in that video asks him several times if he understands that he is under oath, etc. Man, that guy has ball.




Jail would be good...


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Jail would not be appropriate in my opinion, he isn't worth the bother. Being named, shamed and utterly despised by almost every single person who was once an admirer or a fan is enough punishment for this pathetic man.His life is in tatters.


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## atimido (Jun 17, 2009)

I thought that was the original purpose behind the federal investigation; the use of federal funds to obtain drugs illegally...


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

No, fraud is what Landis did....

If he can commit a felony, and get a slap on the wrist, while others do the same, for less money, and get 10 years, then the "fix" must have been in.
.
.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Lance cheated at bicycle racing, and distributed dope to willing buyers. Pretty bush-league as far as hard core criminals go.

Check your newspaper for what real felons do. How does Lance compare to the guy who went into the beauty salon and killed his ex and a couple of other women, and wounded a few more?

How does Lance compare to that nut who shot his neighbor after getting an eviction notice? The guy shot two little kids, their mom and he shot their dad while he tried to protect them...

How does Lance compare to the teenager charged with about 20 sexual assaults in Toronto? 

Asset forfeiture would be far more cost effective for the state than jail in LA's case. I agree with Albert Owen. Jail would indulge his sense of martyrdom and self pity. It might also generate sympathy for him, which would not be good. The public shaming hurts him more than jail would.


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## ocean-ro (Nov 23, 2009)

I wanna see him wearing the YELLOW JUMPSUIT for...seven years in a row


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## Big-foot (Dec 14, 2002)

.........


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## billium v2.0 (Oct 22, 2012)

Data_God said:


> This is blatantly false. The huge majority of people who you are trying to fit that label of "hater" to are anything but. We/They Love cycling. And the reaction that they have is perfectly justified towards someone who tried to destroy it.
> 
> And by applying that derogatory term it puts you squarely in the camp of Lance FanBoi ....
> 
> Bill


The point that I either failed to make or you failed to understand was my belief that for Mr. Armstrong personally, neither jail nor any of the other theoretical consequences I suggested would be as bad to him as where he finds himself at the moment. And he finds himself in that position with haters/fans and most folks in between who love cycling or could care less. That's a pretty broad spectrum.

If you or I think he deserves to go to jail, great. If not, great. Same for a prosecutor with the authority to pursue it further. Convict him of the appropriate crime and put him in jail. We may feel better. But for a narcissist, I'd guess he's in a worse place than that right now and for the forseeable future. Maybe Pete Rose can help him through this.


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## billium v2.0 (Oct 22, 2012)

g29er said:


> Kind of an inappropriate comment don't you think? How does what you said make you any better than the person you are lynching?


It was my observation related to the worst punishment I can imagine imposed on a narcissistic personality.

I was suggesting that jail or any other consequence imposed by you or me or a judge or jury will not make life more unpleasant for Mr. Armstrong than what he's done to himself, his public image and his legacy (which for a narcissist, is everything).


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## Chaz955i (Mar 13, 2006)

g29er said:


> Kind of an inappropriate comment don't you think? How does what you said make you any better than the person you are lynching?


Mr Literal strikes again.


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## captain stubbing (Mar 30, 2011)

know there are certain countries that have specific laws against doping, i have trouble understanding why doping is not a criminal offence (in any country) especially where prizemoney and bonuses are at stake....isn't it fraud?


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## r1lee (Jul 22, 2012)

For a recognize celebrity like Lance, the fact that he's no longer admired, feared, respected etc in society is his jail. In jail, it would mean he could move on with his life because he's paid his dues once he gets released.

Now he goes to bed every night and wonders what tomorrow's going to bring. More lawsuits, ridicule from every joe that walks by him. For someone who likes to be in the middle of attention, there is no possible he'll ever have that now.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

I think the devil is in the details. Basically, there can be a big gap between "common sense" and the letter of the law. 

Much of what Armstrong did was before various countries made doping illegal, or the statute of limitations expired and so on. As for fraud, I think you have to prove real loss from the fraud. His sponsors, endorsers, the races - all benefited from having Armstrong competing. Given how rampant doping is and how openly this is known, I think it's hard to prove fraud.

The only thing I'm keeping my eye on is the criminal investigation into Ferrari. No idea where that is going.


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## tnvol123 (Sep 11, 2012)

Agreed. I'm by no means defending him and don't have issues with anyone dropping him, but he made his sponsors tons of money over the years. 



Bluenote said:


> I think the devil is in the details. Basically, there can be a big gap between "common sense" and the letter of the law.
> 
> Much of what Armstrong did was before various countries made doping illegal, or the statute of limitations expired and so on. *As for fraud, I think you have to prove real loss from the fraud. His sponsors, endorsers, the races - all benefited from having Armstrong competing. Given how rampant doping is and how openly this is known, I think it's hard to prove fraud.*
> 
> The only thing I'm keeping my eye on is the criminal investigation into Ferrari. No idea where that is going.


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## mariomal99 (Mar 4, 2012)

If armstrong goes to jail, the others should also.....Landis, Hamilton


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## Robert1 (Mar 27, 2012)

Why is it that haters all seem to think that if you're not a hater you must be a lover, fanboi of LA--bifurcation fallacy. There are clearly some folks that seem to have a personal hatred for LA, and some that maybe feel he's innocent. But by far most are somewhere between the extremes.




Data_God said:


> This is blatantly false. The huge majority of people who you are trying to fit that label of "hater" to are anything but. We/They Love cycling. And the reaction that they have is perfectly justified towards someone who tried to destroy it.
> 
> And by applying that derogatory term it puts you squarely in the camp of Lance FanBoi ....
> 
> Bill


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## Robert1 (Mar 27, 2012)

I keep hearing the issue of perjury come up over and over. The statue of limitation perjury in most states and at the federal level is 3 years. 




burgrat said:


> He committed perjury. I think this is why he will not confess. He should do some jail time. He knew damn well he was lying under oath. The lawyer in that video asks him several times if he understands that he is under oath, etc. Man, that guy has ball.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

As for defrauding fans, I don't think you can easily prove that. I mean - there was a lot of speculation he was doping and he never sold racing directly to fans. Rather, they bought glasses, bikes, sweatshirts he endorsed. And one could argue that they are perfectly fine shirts, glasses, bikes even absent Armstrong's name.

I guess he could face perjury charges, but its up to a prosecutor to open those. I guess maybe that could happen, but, seeing as he's lost an estimated 150 million, and isn't a licensed professional (by that I mean Doctor, Engineer) - perjury charges seem a bit like uneeded piling on.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Bluenote said:


> perjury charges seem a bit like uneeded piling on.


You must be new here. That's not enough. Apparently the line is drawn somewhere before hiring a hitman, but I digress......


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

mariomal99 said:


> If armstrong goes to jail, the others should also.....Landis, Hamilton


Your list is short. It would have to include every rider who has ever finished inside the top-30 for the last decade. That's probably still a pretty small prison.


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## g29er (Mar 28, 2009)

> Lance cheated at bicycle racing, and distributed dope to willing buyers. Pretty bush-league as far as hard core criminals go.


Your making it seem as if he was a drug dealer. There is nothing on any report that says that he "distributed dope to willing buyers." He helped supply it for his team which is alot different. And if anyone thinks that US Postal and Discovery were only the only teams from that era that had a sophisticated, well-funded doping program then they are truly naive. 

Right now as we speak, there are riders and team managers from that era who are reading and watching the news and thinking that they are glad it's not them. Because if they investigated every team from back then they would ALL be screwed. Every single team had a "motoman" or some method of smuggling and hiding drug use. 

What's even more laughable is that I don't hear anyone holding Hincapie,Leipheimer or anyone else to the flame. Because everyone is justifying their hatred based on who they think is a narcissist or a jerk...So what? It is narcissistic for any rider to dope to gain an advantage. And it's even more narcissistic to only admit it when they are confronted about it and not actually be man enough to come forward and say that they want to fix the sport that they cared about so much instead just receiving a 6 month suspension and then quietly retiring. 

Part of Hincapie's statement, 
*" About two years ago, I was approached by US Federal investigators, and more recently by USADA, and asked to tell of my personal experience in these matters. I would have been much more comfortable talking only about myself, but understood that I was obligated to tell the truth about everything I knew. So that is what I did" * 

It goes on to say that he would like to see changes in the sport, whatever. 

So anyone who deceives fans by doping is a jerk, and that includes Hincapie,Leipheimer and a whole lot of other people. While the other stuff that Armstrong did was bad I still think it is extraneous when you look at the big picture. 

So _*Cinelli 82220*_ I'm not jumping down your throat here. And no disrespect. 
I also agree that Armstrong should not go to jail, and I think that Hincapie,Leipheimer,and everyone who is implicated should be stripped of all results and receive lifetime bans as well.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

spade2you said:


> You must be new here. That's not enough. Apparently the line is drawn somewhere before hiring a hitman, but I digress......


Good point. I could have phrased things better "to a prosecutor, that may seem like unneeded piling on."

Now if I were King for a day, I would make general d-b*ggery a law, punishable be life in prison. 

Anyone who drew blood but didn't use it, took a tainted supplement, only got training advice from a dirty Doctor, or maintains that you have to test positive to get banned - in the brig!


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Maybe he can share a cell with his dad?


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Why would you post that?


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## tnvol123 (Sep 11, 2012)

lol Some of you guys really hate Lance. Some real hurt feelings in here. lol


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## Dresden (May 26, 2009)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Maybe he can share a cell with his dad?


Not likely.
Eddie Gunderson Obituary: View Eddie Gunderson's Obituary by Dallas Morning News


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> Maybe he can share a cell with his dad?


Jeez, that's pretty crappy.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

kiwisimon said:


> Jeez, that's pretty crappy.


Agreed. 

I am always surprised that Lance did not use the normal American method of atonement. The big confession, blame his childhood, apologize. Etc. 

The guy had a pretty crappy start in life with a series of screwed up father figures. His often erratic behavior bear covers up that he has some pretty serious demons he needs to deal with. 

He will end up broke but better then jail time he needs to talk to a therapist....and actually listen


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> The guy had a pretty crappy start in life with a series of screwed up father figures. His often erratic behavior bear covers up that he has some pretty serious demons he needs to deal with.
> 
> He will end up broke but better then jail time he needs to talk to a therapist....and actually listen


I should apologize. I had no idea that you an Armstrong were actually close. Up until this post, I thought you just knew *of* him. Not that you actually knew him personally. I mean, unless you're a therapist, criminologist, or someone who has spent countless hours riding around with Armstrong, you wouldn't just give some dime store psychology...right?


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## jacksdad (Aug 7, 2012)

No more than my 7yr old should go to jail for that time he stacked the cards in his favor playing 'war'. 
He cheated in a game. That's it. I don't want to hear about any govt agency spending my tax dollars on this nonsense.


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## C6Rider (Nov 15, 2008)

*Not with you on this one*



Doctor Falsetti said:


> Maybe he can share a cell with his dad?


Good Doctor, I've followed your posts and the feedback (good and bad) that you've received.

I salute you for everything that you've posted, and almost everything you posted turned out to be correct. You've taken a ton of flack from the Fanboys, but that is to be expected. 

While this post is not called for, in my opinion, the other 99.9% of your posts are spot on.


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## Trek2.3 (Sep 13, 2009)

Criminal trials require _admissible_ evidence. LA will not be testifying. There is no reliable scientific evidence. A gaggle of self-confessed, self-interested dopers with lots of reason to lie, does not strong evidence present.

40 year Lawyer.


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## Trek2.3 (Sep 13, 2009)

burgrat said:


> The lawyer in that video asks him several times if he understands that he is under oath, etc.


Standard tactic #403. Taught in all law school Trial Practice classes. Proves nothing at all.

I've asked the question a thousand times.


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