# 11 speed shift quality with internal cable routing?



## tommyturbo (Jan 24, 2002)

I have read that the 11s setup is very dependent on low cable friction. I'm considering buying a new frame that has internal cable routing. Having heard of cable friction problems with internal routing, I'm very concerned that my shifting quality would degrade.

I use Campagnolo 11 speed on two bikes, and both bikes shift like an F1 car. I don’t want to take a chance on compromising the best shifting I have ever experienced. 

Does anyone have enough experience using 11s with internal cables that they can compare 11s shifting with the standard external cable setup?


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## ejprez (Nov 9, 2006)

I share this concern too, in regards to a SCOTT Foil or Ridley NOAH, current ride has external routing and shifts awesome with Chorus 11. Friends Madone with internal routing using Ultegra has had constant issues and adjustments.


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## tommyturbo (Jan 24, 2002)

That's probably all I need to hear. I was going to order a 2012 S-Works Tarmac SL4 with internal cables. Not only would I have the hassles of using BB30 adapters with my SR crank (and worrying about the frame warranty), I would not know if my shifting is good until the bike was built.

That's a lot of if's. I think I will get a 2011 S-Works Tarmac SL3 with old fashioned cables and a threaded BB (no longer offered with the SL4).


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## tommyturbo (Jan 24, 2002)

PS I just noticed that you said Ultegra 10s (not Campy) works poorly with internal cables. If Shimano has issues (other than the vague feel that all of it has), then the more sensitive 11s would almost certainly be worse.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

ejprez said:


> I share this concern too, in regards to a SCOTT Foil or Ridley NOAH, current ride has external routing and shifts awesome with Chorus 11. Friends Madone with internal routing using Ultegra has had constant issues and adjustments.


I think it will highly depend on the entry and exit points of the internal routing. It's well-known that 11-sp cabling is sensitive to tight turns and angle changes. So if you can see the frame(s) in person, you can try to have a guess as to which ones are more likely to have shifting issues. 

It's really astonishing that years after internal routing become commonplace, some frame designs still miss this important point.


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## tommyturbo (Jan 24, 2002)

Orange,

My guess is that Specialized will get it right. I wonder if their have been issues with the Venge or Roubaix. Nevertheless, this is a chance I can't take. Not only can I not see a SL4 frame before I order, even if I could, how would I be able to evaluate whether the housing turns would be too tight?

I think I will play it safe. Maybe my _next_ frame will have internal cables, but I have a choice on this one.


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## rdoc (Aug 17, 2005)

I have a new Specialized SL3 Pro Roubaix frame built up with a mix of Chorus and Record 11 using the internal routing. I have only had it since Saturday, but it shifts perfectly so far. It is at least as good as my external Campy 10.


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## tommyturbo (Jan 24, 2002)

Rdoc,

Thanks for the great feedback, and it sounds like you are set. Any others with this experience?


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## smankow (Jul 24, 2011)

I have Chorus on my new Kestrel and so far, so good. Of course, I've only been able to get is out for 4 rides due to rain, rain and more rain. For those with issues, have they had it cables adjusted after a break-in period? was it by Campy mechanics?


steve


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## tommyturbo (Jan 24, 2002)

I had another talk with Specialized Customer Service, as well as Quality Control. The story is that there were issues with the first internal cable frame, which was a Roubaix model. The recommendation to the customer base was to use a special type of housing and to do the "California Cross" with the cables. I've done this for years (shift cables crossed under the downtube), but have never heard it called this. Specialized claim that the problem has been solved with the Tarmac (and I am sure with newer Roubaix models) by a redesign with more gradual housing bends.

In any case, I ordered one of the last 2011 S-Works Tarmac SL3 with the threaded BB so I can use my SR crank without adapters. Internal cables were a concern of mine, but I just felt more comfortable with the threaded BB. Specialized seems to be getting out of the threaded BB business; gotta spec a Specialized crank


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## crewman (Jan 29, 2004)

*Dogma Issues also*

I just saw this thread and was not surprised to hear about the problems.

I assembled several Dogma2 bikes and was having a very hard time setting up the shifting. The new model has all internal cable routing. I also noticed they were using Jagwire cable kits and not Campy. I finally gave up because the bikes were being used for a show and not for sale to customers. 

I also noticed this when I rode the Pinarello gran fondo. We were on the new Dogma2 and by the end of the ride (205km) the shifting was way off. 

The internal cable roue through pieces of nylon tubing. The tubing is not lubricated and as such has lots of friction. I would probably switch the tubing for a teflon with lower friction.


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## Tim71 (Nov 5, 2011)

*Camapagnolo used with internal cable routing*

Hi, I recently brought an MCipollini frame which features internal cable routing and have built with Campag SR 11 speed. Constant shifting problems, unable to be resolved after numerous trips to the campag pro shop. To cap of the problems with this set up, the front derailleur hanger was moving under shifting load which is a fault when running campag on the frames, (after being sent back to dealer, they put lock tight on to resolve!). Seems they were designed with Di2 in mind.


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## malanb (Oct 26, 2009)

at first, first few motnh gave me problems, then one day I got mad, and pulled the cables with some force and it stopped , now it shifts fine


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## kevinmetcalfe (Feb 10, 2012)

tommyturbo said:


> In any case, I ordered one of the last 2011 S-Works Tarmac SL3 with the threaded BB so I can use my SR crank without adapters. Internal cables were a concern of mine, but I just felt more comfortable with the threaded BB. Specialized seems to be getting out of the threaded BB business; gotta spec a Specialized crank


I'm coming in late, but I just received a S-Works SL4. It's not built yet, so I can't really say anything about the internal routing and the shifting, but it DOES come with a BB30 adapter. I've been using a D/A SRM with the Enduro adapter for a couple of years on my SL3. This bike comes with an adapter that is similar to the Enduro so running other than BB30 cranks is not an issue.


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## tommyturbo (Jan 24, 2002)

Based on what I have heard and read, you should be fine using the adapter with Shimano cranks. Since this is the Campagnolo forum, I'm assuming that you are going to use the Ultratorque crank with your SL4.

If so, you might want to visit the Specialized forum. There have been some pretty extensive discussions about problems resulting from the use of Campy cranks with the Specialized PF30 OSBB.


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