# Descending in the Drops



## Carl Hungus (Sep 22, 2009)

Any tips on getting comfortable descending in the drops? 

I am coming from more of a mtb background so riding in the drops wasn't super comfortable at first. I'm getting more and more comfortable with it in flatter sections, but one of the rides I normally do is an 10 mile, 1400ft. climb, followed by a 10 mile 1400ft. descent. My problem is on the descent..if I'm riding with my hands on the hoods, where I feel much more in control and better balanced, my hands feel like they are getting stung my wasps. If I'm riding in the drops, my hands don't hurt as much but steering feels weird, my weight distribution over the bike is way off and I have trouble reaching the brake levers. I have heard as a general rule, that you are supposed to descend in the drops but I suck at it. Any tips to get more comfortable.


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

Bar-top levers?


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## suprcivic (Apr 10, 2009)

maybe try rotating your bars down or slide your brake levers fruther down the bar. this would make it a bit harder to reach the hoods, but for me makes it a lot easier to sustain that position in the drops and reach the levers. might not work for you, but at least its worth considering.


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## Carl Hungus (Sep 22, 2009)

suprcivic said:


> maybe try rotating your bars down or slide your brake levers fruther down the bar. this would make it a bit harder to reach the hoods, but for me makes it a lot easier to sustain that position in the drops and reach the levers. might not work for you, but at least its worth considering.


That might work. Yeah, it seems like I really have to position my hands at an awkward angle to get a good grip on the levers as they are set up now.


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## 88 rex (Mar 18, 2008)

Raise your bars.


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## CougarTrek (May 5, 2008)

Something's going on with your fit. (just from a general positioning standpoint, I have no cross experience).

If anything your brakes should be stronger in the drops (more leverage) and you should certainly be able to reach them. Any of a number of possible fixes; off the top of my head: raise bars, rotate bars down (away from stem), adjust position of brifters, shim/adjust brake lever reach, shorter reach bars, different drop configuration.

Weight distribution on bike being off in the drops points to an overall fit issue, see above plus: stem height/length/angle, top tube length, etc.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

88 rex said:


> Raise your bars.


this. and maybe bring 'em closer. I'm willing to bet you can accomplish both simply by flipping your stem over.


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## jmoote (Nov 29, 2007)

This does seem like a fit issue more than anything. Riding and especially descending in the drops should be very natural. As was mentioned, braking should be much easier, which is one of the reasons to descend in the drops - one finger is usually enough for me from that position.


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## Carl Hungus (Sep 22, 2009)

Ironic about this being a fit issue because this is a custom built CX bike we're talking about. Also, I just took two steer tube spacers out because of builder recommendation. I'm going to try rotating the bars forward a bit and I'll see if that does the trick.


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

What kind of descending are you talking about? If it is just road, then it might be a set-up/technique/experience issue. If it is technical trail, that is a whole 'nuther ball of wax.


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## Carl Hungus (Sep 22, 2009)

PeanutButterBreath said:


> What kind of descending are you talking about? If it is just road, then it might be a set-up/technique/experience issue. If it is technical trail, that is a whole 'nuther ball of wax.


That is kinda central to the issue and I didn't really spell it out in my previous post. It's a 1200ft-ish descent on basically a dirt road/logging road (The Forest of Nisene Marks in Aptos, CA if anyone is familiar). I wouldn't call it technical but my hands and arms are begging for mercy after I'm done with it. I should have specified that we're not talking pavement here. Most people ride mountain bikes on this "road". I was hoping it was more of a technique issue that I had wrong.


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## thinkcooper (Jan 5, 2005)

Carl Hungus said:


> That is kinda central to the issue and I didn't really spell it out in my previous post. It's a 1200ft-ish descent on basically a dirt road/logging road (The Forest of Nisene Marks in Aptos, CA if anyone is familiar). I wouldn't call it technical but my hands and arms are begging for mercy after I'm done with it. I should have specified that we're not talking pavement here. Most people ride mountain bikes on this "road". I was hoping it was more of a technique issue that I had wrong.


You talking about Hinckley down to Olive Springs? Done it many times on my Hunter CX, and pretty much always in the drops. Top of the bar brakes grabbing Paul's cantis suck on Hinckley. OTOH, grabbing a full brifter lever (SRAM Rivals tugging Pauls are my choice) works much better. Tubulars and even loose fitting clinchers can rotate slightly once they get heated up on that descent - be sure to have tight stem nuts cranked down on the rim. Pick the cleanest line possible, and figure that you'll be doing some skidding, just modulate as best as possible. At the bottom, your forearms will be junk. But that's the fun part.

If you happen to be taking that "special" left turn off Hinckley, figure on another third more pain, especially over the water bars. That is not a route I'd take on my cross.

We do the main Nisene Marks fire road up and back as training for cross racing Thursday nights once we get closer to the racing calendar. Dropping down the fire road on a cross bike is also a test of braking, and will heat up rims. But the fire road is much, much better than Hinckley. Again, your forearms will be pumped, and the drops all the way on that descent is the way to go. 

BTW, one Nisene Marks fire road ride last summer, I left my riding shoes at home. Rode the whole descent in flippy floppy Sanuks on a set of borrowed flat plastic pedals from Bike Station Aptos. That was sketchy. I don't forget my shoes anymore.


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## Carl Hungus (Sep 22, 2009)

thinkcooper said:


> You talking about Hinckley down to Olive Springs? Done it many times on my Hunter CX, and pretty much always in the drops. Top of the bar brakes grabbing Paul's cantis suck on Hinckley. OTOH, grabbing a full brifter lever (SRAM Rivals tugging Pauls are my choice) works much better. Tubulars and even loose fitting clinchers can rotate slightly once they get heated up on that descent - be sure to have tight stem nuts cranked down on the rim. Pick the cleanest line possible, and figure that you'll be doing some skidding, just modulate as best as possible. At the bottom, your forearms will be junk. But that's the fun part.
> 
> If you happen to be taking that "special" left turn off Hinckley, figure on another third more pain, especially over the water bars. That is not a route I'd take on my cross.
> 
> ...


I've been dropping down both Aptos Creek and Hinkley lately since my only bike is CX right now. I think part of my problem is that I just need to get more used to the CX bike in general. Shifter/Lever position might be a culprit as well. I mean, I can brake decently in the drops it's just that I feel some what out of control on those long descents. I've literally never owned a road bike so drops are still a newer concept for me. I'm running the same brake set-up as you as well (Rival-Pauls). I'm gonna try to get out for some of those training rides this year. I did the kiosk to Sand Point in 51:30 last night and I think I can get it down under 50:00 pretty soon. Maybe I can hang with some of you guys come October.


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## thinkcooper (Jan 5, 2005)

Carl Hungus said:


> I've been dropping down both Aptos Creek and Hinkley lately since my only bike is CX right now. I think part of my problem is that I just need to get more used to the CX bike in general. Shifter/Lever position might be a culprit as well. I mean, I can brake decently in the drops it's just that I feel some what out of control on those long descents. I've literally never owned a road bike so drops are still a newer concept for me. I'm running the same brake set-up as you as well (Rival-Pauls). I'm gonna try to get out for some of those training rides this year. I did the kiosk to Sand Point in 51:30 last night and I think I can get it down under 50:00 pretty soon. Maybe I can hang with some of you guys come October.


After you spend a little more time on those descents on the cross, speeds and confidence will come up. The sad thing is, cantis will never slow you down as comfortably as a set of discs, and without the cushion of fat rubber and a suspension front end, the chatter always is a wrestling match.

Looking forward to seeing you out there.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

thinkcooper said:


> Looking forward to seeing you out there.


Off topic, but I see your "I'm on a horse" reference in the sidebar, and that reminds me of the fabulous video about how they made it. I think I'll watch it again!


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

Flip your stem. Maybe you need a smaller one?? I used to have this problem, and I remedied it by moving my brake levers down ever so slightly and practicing descending in the drops a lot. Now, I feel best going downhill in the drops. 

Practice descending in the drops a lot. It will grow on you.


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## Crank-a-Roo (Mar 21, 2003)

There is a chance that you handlebar is not wide enough or flair out enough.


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## thinkcooper (Jan 5, 2005)

ukbloke said:


> Off topic, but I see your "I'm on a horse" reference in the sidebar, and that reminds me of the fabulous video about how they made it. I think I'll watch it again!


I'm totally on a horse.


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## towerscum (Mar 3, 2006)

*I did this*

I started using a shallow drop,short reach bar and brought the hoods level with my seat. Use a stem that will bring the reach at the hoods close to the reach thats on your Mt bike too. I did and it was a god send. My CX rig rails in the drops!


towerscum


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## J-K (Nov 5, 2006)

Learn from the master, from about 3:00 minutes in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbWR4uhebeY


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## timallard (Mar 27, 2010)

Didn't see it mentioned, moving the saddle forward so you can clear it better helps to get to the position needed where your stomach is basically on the saddle on steep, sloppy sections.


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## cmdrpiffle (Mar 28, 2006)

Carl Hungus said:


> I've been dropping down both Aptos Creek and Hinkley lately since my only bike is CX right now. I think part of my problem is that I just need to get more used to the CX bike in general. Shifter/Lever position might be a culprit as well. I mean, I can brake decently in the drops it's just that I feel some what out of control on those long descents. I've literally never owned a road bike so drops are still a newer concept for me. I'm running the same brake set-up as you as well (Rival-Pauls). I'm gonna try to get out for some of those training rides this year. I did the kiosk to Sand Point in 51:30 last night and I think I can get it down under 50:00 pretty soon. Maybe I can hang with some of you guys come October.


Okay Carl, I won't rat you out to the NorCal board if you return the favor:thumbsup: 
I re-read your post. Do you have top bar levers as well? If so, you'll have more control but it's a trade off with less braking power/modulation. 
If you've just got the standard drop levers, it's going to be a learning curve. On descents (I did Braille a couple of weeks ago on my CX) I'm probably 80% on the bar top levers, and 20% on the hoods and 2 fingers on the drop levers. Didn't go into the drops once. Compared to mt biking, CX brakes are an afterthought. Your hands and wrists will be sore on technical descents. On the other hand, you're able to tame anything in Demo on your mt bike, but you weren't the first few times on a mt bike. Everything will get more familiar as you ride the road geometry.
I'll be in Demo later today on my CX bike, with baggies and a visor 

Cheers


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## grrrah (Jul 22, 2005)

do what I do!

(okay, not really, but got caught inbetween on this one)


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## Carl Hungus (Sep 22, 2009)

Update...because I know you all care so much. 

So this past Sunday I did my usual ride and told myself I was going to commit to the drops the whole way down and see what happened. Still felt a little weird but much, much better! I could actually feel my hands when I was done. Cornering still feels odd as I'm used to being more upright and weighting the outside pedal through corners like I've done on FS mtb's in the past. I guess I'm learning that you can't ride a CX bike like you do a trail bike. Who would have thought?


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## suprcivic (Apr 10, 2009)

did you make any bike adjustments?


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## Carl Hungus (Sep 22, 2009)

suprcivic said:


> did you make any bike adjustments?


Nope. I'm going to have someone (probably the builder) take a look at my position on the bike at some point and see if anything looks weird but as I mentioned, it's a custom frame with stem length and spacer height basically dialed in by the builder himself. The guy has been doing this a while so I trust him. Probably more of me not really being used to riding drop bars than anything else. My last CX bike was too small for me so I really didn't ride the drops at all before getting this new bike.


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## jrm (Dec 23, 2001)

*What worked for me*

was swapping out my bell laps for a midge bar. I ahveth tbar set up using a salsa 0 degree stem with maybe 20mm of spacers underneath. i have the bar rotated so the bar ends are pointed just forward of the frame dropouts. In order to make the bar more comfortable I overlaped the bar tape approximately 1-1/2 times for the segment of the bar under the brake hoods. It looks kinda "interesting" but makes descending easier for me. YMMV


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## GeoKrpan (Feb 3, 2008)

Dump the road bar.
Use one of the "dirt drops", WTB Mountain Road, Soma Junebug, Salsa Woodchipper, etc.

I use the WTB. It's 60cm wide verses 44cm for the drop bars that I USED to use.

My set up. I have the brake levers pushed way down so that I can brake with two fingers from the drops with my hands at the end of the drops. It means that the hoods are so far down that they're completely useless.
But it's OK, in the rough they are all but useless anyway.
Anything I could do on the hoods I can do far better in the drops.
That includes standing. Standing in the drops is far more powerful and far more aerodynamic than standing on the hoods.
The extra width of the WTB makes standing in the drops more than doable, it makes it pleasurable.
I found it awkward and all but impossible on a 44cm bar.

I have perfect braking control from the drops. I have far more control going downhill in the rough because the width of the bar gives it far more leverage, better steering control.


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## cogswell23 (Aug 15, 2007)

timallard said:


> Didn't see it mentioned, moving the saddle forward so you can clear it better helps to get to the position needed where your stomach is basically on the saddle on steep, sloppy sections.


Don't do this. There's far more important considerations for your saddle position on a CX bike than how easy it is to get your butt off the back end. On a free ride bike or dirt jumper, OK. On a cross bike, no.


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## rmp (Aug 25, 2004)

GeoKrpan said:


> Dump the road bar.
> Use one of the "dirt drops", WTB Mountain Road, Soma Junebug, Salsa Woodchipper, etc.
> 
> I use the WTB. It's 60cm wide verses 44cm for the drop bars that I USED to use.


I just replaced the Bell Lap and 5-ish degree stem on my Singlecross with a Woodchipper bar and 25 degree 110mm stem (MTB dirt drop look) last night. Holy Jeebus does it feel good in the drops now. Of course the drops are close to where I would ride in the hoods before - but for trail riding and technical stuff it's really going to be fun. It's not going to be nearly as sleek on road rides, but for bombing around the neighborhood with the kids, and trails - perfection.

looks pretty grandpa-ish though.

I think my old Fat Chance Wicked is getting fitted with a similar setup very soon.

rmp


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

PeanutButterBreath said:


> Bar-top levers?


+1 to this. They get a bad rap IMO. Ideally, set them up so you can get them with your palms right on the bend off the tops.


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## umarth (Apr 18, 2008)

I'm late to this party, but I have WTB dirt drops (old school) set about saddle height an they are really comfortable on pretty steep descents. The hooks are at the right height and I really like the way they sweep out. I spend all my time in the hooks, unless it is a longer road ride.

Bar height and the right bar make all the difference.

Though I really think canti's can burn you out pretty quick, regardless.


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## veloreality (Apr 5, 2010)

jmoote said:


> This does seem like a fit issue more than anything. Riding and especially descending in the drops should be very natural. As was mentioned, braking should be much easier, which is one of the reasons to descend in the drops - one finger is usually enough for me from that position.


sounds correct. i had issues in the drops with a 53 cm frame. went to a 55 and no issue. almost felt weird how nice it was decending in the drops the first time. i feel safer in the drops then on the hoods. my hands lock in more deeper and deeper when decending in the drops. my fingers tend to rattle off the lever when decending on the hoods.


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