# Ridley sizing



## Snopro440 (Dec 21, 2006)

I was looking at the Excalibur and looked at the geometry chart and was surprised. I am 6 feet tall, and my last 2 bikes were a 2005 Bianchi 928 carbon Centaur in 58 with a 120 stem. My last bike was a 57 Orbea Onix with a 100 mm stem. Which size would work best ?? I am thinking that I am between a medium and a large. I dont race, not planning on it either.. I do group rides sometimes, but ride solo more. I don't want a super aggressive riding position, but I dont want a Giant OCR feel either. If it helps, both bikes I mentioned were fitted by the same guy, and I always felt more comforable on the Bianchi. What are your thoughts on sizing? Thanks everyone!!!!


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

Its best to go on virtual top tube length and Heat tube height so perhaps try to dig up the geometry table for a size 58. 2005 928 carbon and then compare to Ridleys. For example the current 928 Carbon has a virtual top tube length of 575 mm for a size 58 and a HT height of 170 mm ... on that basis the Large Excalubut ould be the closest with a virtual TT length of 570 mm and a head tube of 190 mm - the biggest difference woul be on the HT which means if you used the same stem as on the old bike your bars would be sitting 2cm higher which of course can be overcome by using 2cm less spacer, flipping the stem or using a more aggressive stem that is unless you want your bars higher for greater comfort anyway... you will also need to account for hidden/internal headsets as they reduce your overall stack height by 1-2 cm. If confused just post the dimensions (TT & HT) of your old frame as well as the stem angle and I will get back to you.


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## Snopro440 (Dec 21, 2006)

Thanks, I looked at the 2005 Bianchi specs and they dont state head tube length. The top tube is 570 virtual, the angles of the head and seat tubes are both 73 degrees, and the top tube slopes 4 degrees. Seat tube was 550 it says. The stem was a 120 mm with a 6 degree drop. The Orbea I had had a 570 mm virtual top tube and a 182 mm head tube. I had a 100 mm stem and it had a 5 or 6 degree drop. Both bikes fit well, but I was more comfortable on the Bianchi I guess. I appreciate your help a lot, thanks!!!!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Snopro440 said:


> Thanks, I looked at the 2005 Bianchi specs and they dont state head tube length. The top tube is 570 virtual, the angles of the head and seat tubes are both 73 degrees, and the top tube slopes 4 degrees. Seat tube was 550 it says. The stem was a 120 mm with a 6 degree drop. The Orbea I had had a 570 mm virtual top tube and a 182 mm head tube. I had a 100 mm stem and it had a 5 or 6 degree drop. Both bikes fit well, but I was more comfortable on the Bianchi I guess. I appreciate your help a lot, thanks!!!!


If you really want to know the HT length on the Bianchi, measure it. If you can't measure in metric, tell us the length in inches and we'll convert it. Don't include the lower and upper cups of the headset, just the HT.

Also, do you have access to a Ridley? If so, I can give you some measurements to take on the Bianchi to compare, otherwise it'll be more of an estimation based on the measurements of both bikes.

Lastly, if the Bianchi fits better, forget using the Orbea to compare things. It'll just serve to confuse you.


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## backinthesaddle (Nov 22, 2006)

I'm 6'1" with a 34 inch riding inseam and long-ish arms. All three of my Ridleys have been/are now mediums. Excalibur, Damocles and now a Helium. I ride a 120 stem and Deda deep bars (long reach and drop). A large Ridley would be too big for me.

The virtual TT on a medium Ridley is 56.5cm. My cockpit measurement (tip of saddle to center of bars) is 56.5cm. My position is comfortable and can be aggressive when I get in the drops. 










Here's my Helium...


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

I've been riding a 58cm De Rosa for a bunch of years. I just last year got a large Excalibur and have been happy with the fit. 
I thought that I should have gone with the medium until I was fitted and still argued the point with the guy who fitted me. He was right.
I'm not a racer but ride to maintain my fitness so I do push it.
I am 6' maybe 6'1" and wear a 32" inseam.
If I remember right the virtual top tube is 58.5 and I have been running a 110mm stem. I may try a 120 stem this season. The seat tube is I think 59cm to the top.
I have posted a photo on another thread somewhere and if I can find it somewhere I will post it here so's you can have a look see.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

I think that I've got a photo of the lge Excalibur loaded.


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## Snopro440 (Dec 21, 2006)

I can't measure the head tube on the bianchi because I sold it 2 years ago, I wish I had thought to measure it for the future because I liked the fit.. Oh well. Anyone else have thoughts? I really appreciate your help fellas!!


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## backinthesaddle (Nov 22, 2006)

velodog said:


> I think that I've got a photo of the lge Excalibur loaded.


It may "fit" you, but it doesn't fit you. The fact that your seat is jacked all the way forward and nosed down a good inch are indicators that the frame is too long across the top tube.
You are making up the difference but shoving your saddle forward and riding a 110mm stem, thus turning the bike into the medium you should have bought.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I think the best thing is for you to get a bike fit with a bike shop that has a fit cycle. Your measurements will be taken, then you'll ride the fit cycle and those measurements applied, along with tweaks to make you more comfortable. At that point, using Ridley's geometry table, you'll be able to make an educated decision on the size you require because you'll have the fit cycles measurements for reference. You may not want to spend the extra money on a good fitting, but in the long run, you'll be happy you did so.


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## Snopro440 (Dec 21, 2006)

I have found out the head tube length on the Bianchi, it was 154. Does this help some? My shop will do the fitting, I dont mind spending the cash, but it would seem I could get an idea based on my favorite frame and figure which frame to order that way, then get the stem and seat/post set from there. Thank you guys!!!
Adam


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Comparing the geometries of the two bikes, and from what you've said about your preferred riding position, I'm pretty confident the medium Ridley is your size. Because you gain almost 2 cm of HT length, you'll either be positioned higher than on the Bianchi or you can use less spacers to equalize your position on the bars.

Check the numbers below and remember, TT and HT lengths are more important than ST length (as long as the post stays in the 'safe zone'). I'd still double check the fit with your bike shop. 

Bianchi: 
Seat tube = 550
TT (virtual) = 570
HT = 154

Ridley Excalibur (M):
Seat tube = 540
TT (virtual) = 565
HT = 175


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## Snopro440 (Dec 21, 2006)

You guys rock, thank you!!!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Snopro440 said:


> You guys rock, thank you!!!


:thumbsup:


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## Guest (Feb 7, 2008)

I fail to see why the picture of Velodog's bike (without a rider on it) indicates that his bike does not fit.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

I think that it boils down to Personal preferance. 
With a diamond frame you can typicaly get them sized in 1cm increments, maybe two depending on the manufacturer. Top tube sized accordingly.
With a sloping frame it's maybe five sizes, xs to xl. As the frame grows the seat tube gets slacker. 
So, it seems that there are two choices to making a frame fit, a smaller frame with the seat pushed back and spacers under the 73*stem or a larger frame with the seat pushed foreward and fewer spacers under the 84* stem.
You pays your money, you make your choices.


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## backinthesaddle (Nov 22, 2006)

velodog said:


> I think that it boils down to Personal preferance.
> With a diamond frame you can typicaly get them sized in 1cm increments, maybe two depending on the manufacturer. Top tube sized accordingly.
> With a sloping frame it's maybe five sizes, xs to xl. As the frame grows the seat tube gets slacker.
> So, it seems that there are two choices to making a frame fit, a smaller frame with the seat pushed back and spacers under the 73*stem or a larger frame with the seat pushed foreward and fewer spacers under the 84* stem.
> You pays your money, you make your choices.


True dat...

BUT, if you are racing, go far the smaller option. I've always found that a bike that's too big is like driving a truck into a turn.


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## Metz (Aug 31, 2005)

*Agreed*



backinthesaddle said:


> True dat...
> 
> BUT, if you are racing, go far the smaller option. I've always found that a bike that's too big is like driving a truck into a turn.


Our team just got a bunch of Ridleys through their team program and I can fit on an XL or L and went with the L Helium for that very reason.


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

Snopro ... I second the medium too. Your Bianchi probably had a standard headset so you have to add something like 15 - 20 mm to it when comparing to bikes with integrated headsets such as ridley so 175 HT would be the better option - and 5 mm difference in TT length would mean that you will have to move your saddle back by 5 mm or opt for a slightly lower stem - 80 (ITM do them) which would make your reach slightly longer.


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## lamazion (Sep 11, 2004)

Given the same seat angle, frame size and seat position shouldn't effect each other. If you are moving your seat forward to adjust reach, that's the wrong approach. Knowing the reach I want, my frame size decision comes down to headtube length with a TT to get the reach I want. I have long legs and shorter body, so I tend to go up one size and use a shorter stem to get my target seat to bar drop. I'm just over 6 ft and ride a L Excalibur.


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## backinthesaddle (Nov 22, 2006)

lamazion said:


> Given the same seat angle, frame size and seat position shouldn't effect each other. If you are moving your seat forward to adjust reach, that's the wrong approach. Knowing the reach I want, my frame size decision comes down to headtube length with a TT to get the reach I want. I have long legs and shorter body, so I tend to go up one size and use a shorter stem to get my target seat to bar drop. I'm just over 6 ft and ride a L Excalibur.


The only flaw in that thinking is the fact that the seat angles aren't the same for M and L Ridley frames. The are 73 and 72.5, respectively.
If you are fitting your bike by using headtube length and saddle/bar drop, you're doing it wrong. Going up a size and being forced to ride a short stem is going around your ass to get to your elbow. On either bike your drop would be the same. You may be forced to ride a few spacers under your stem (Gasp! The horror!) and you will show more seatpost/seatmast, but the end result is the same, except for the fact that the smaller bike will handle properly.


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## Snopro440 (Dec 21, 2006)

I ended up ordering a bike.. I was given a honey of a deal on an Orbea Orca so I jumped on it.. I think that I can work with the fit to really get it dialed in. I liked the Ridley, but I have never even seen one, and I was not 100 percent sure of fit on it. Either way, I think I would have been happy. I appreciate your info, I am glad that there are folks here to help out like you all do!!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Congrats on your purchase, Snopro. Good luck with your new ride!


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## lamazion (Sep 11, 2004)

backinthesaddle said:


> The only flaw in that thinking is the fact that the seat angles aren't the same for M and L Ridley frames. The are 73 and 72.5, respectively.
> If you are fitting your bike by using headtube length and saddle/bar drop, you're doing it wrong. Going up a size and being forced to ride a short stem is going around your ass to get to your elbow. On either bike your drop would be the same. You may be forced to ride a few spacers under your stem (Gasp! The horror!) and you will show more seatpost/seatmast, but the end result is the same, except for the fact that the smaller bike will handle properly.


I mentioned the seat angle because it is important to consider in fit. While you feel strongly about going as small as possible, for some people, that is not always possible to get a good fit. With the Ridley Large, I currently run with 3-4cm of spacers and the stem flipped up to get the saddle drop that works for me. After riding the larger and smaller size, I went with the one that fit me. I have no issues with the handling of my bike.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Seeing as this has evolved into a general discussion about bike fit, irregardless of brand, there are a couple of points worth mentioning. 

If moving up/ down a size and adjusting bars/ stems/ saddles works, then that's great. But focusing only on the apparent problem (too short of a reach, too low, etc.) may lead to the incorrect position _on_ the bike - specifically the rider may no longer be centered, relatively speaking. And no matter what size frame you end up with, too far back OR too far forward adversely affects handling. I, for one, would not ignore KOPS, at least as a starting point.

I'm not against making adjustments for fit, but in a sense I guess I'm more a purist, in that I believe a bike (size/ geometry) either fits or it doesn't. You can't _make_ it work.


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## Snopro440 (Dec 21, 2006)

*Well.......*

I found out that the Orca in my size and color is a no-go, out of stock with little or no chance of Orbea getting me one. So I went and ordered up a Excalibur. Campy Centaur and Chorus (Centaur carbon compact UT cranks), Campy Zonda wheels, FSA carbon wing bars. I got to upgrade some components because the Ridley frame was quite a bit cheaper since I bought a new 2007. It is black and silver, and I am excited to see it!! I ended up ordering a medium after reading your thoughts and talking to Jim at Sinclair Imports. I will post some pictures when I get it built up. Thanks again for your help guys, this site is awesome. Hopefully I will get it built up the end of next week.


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## lamazion (Sep 11, 2004)

Congrats on the new ride ... Make sure you update us after you have it out on a few rides!


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## lamazion (Sep 11, 2004)

PJ352 said:


> If moving up/ down a size and adjusting bars/ stems/ saddles works, then that's great. But focusing only on the apparent problem (too short of a reach, too low, etc.) may lead to the incorrect position _on_ the bike - specifically the rider may no longer be centered, relatively speaking. And no matter what size frame you end up with, too far back OR too far forward adversely affects handling. I, for one, would not ignore KOPS, at least as a starting point.
> 
> I'm not against making adjustments for fit, but in a sense I guess I'm more a purist, in that I believe a bike (size/ geometry) either fits or it doesn't. You can't _make_ it work.


I agree 100% on the KOPS starting point. I set my saddle position first using a point slightly behind KOPS (this is what works best for me). From there, I determine if the reach and drop will work for me.


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## backinthesaddle (Nov 22, 2006)

lamazion said:


> I mentioned the seat angle because it is important to consider in fit. While you feel strongly about going as small as possible, for some people, that is not always possible to get a good fit. With the Ridley Large, I currently run with 3-4cm of spacers and the stem flipped up to get the saddle drop that works for me. After riding the larger and smaller size, I went with the one that fit me. I have no issues with the handling of my bike.


Man, if you are riding a large, with it's long headtube, 3-4cm of spacers, AND a flipped up stem, you must not have any saddle to bar drop.


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## lamazion (Sep 11, 2004)

6.5 - 7cm of drop ... in my racing days it was a lot more.


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## nescafe (Sep 20, 2007)

Snopro440 said:


> I found out that the Orca in my size and color is a no-go, out of stock with little or no chance of Orbea getting me one. So I went and ordered up a Excalibur. Campy Centaur and Chorus (Centaur carbon compact UT cranks), Campy Zonda wheels, FSA carbon wing bars. I got to upgrade some components because the Ridley frame was quite a bit cheaper since I bought a new 2007. It is black and silver, and I am excited to see it!! I ended up ordering a medium after reading your thoughts and talking to Jim at Sinclair Imports. I will post some pictures when I get it built up. Thanks again for your help guys, this site is awesome. Hopefully I will get it built up the end of next week.


congrats dude! got myself an excalbur a few months ago too and been loving it. over at another forum there's been lotsa praises too for the excal. post pics when you get yours!

enjoy!


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## Snopro440 (Dec 21, 2006)

*It's Here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

Well fellas, my Excalibur arrived!!! I went with the medium and I am glad I did. Thanks a lot guys, I am pleased with it. It isn't quite complete yet, I need a stem, saddle, bar tape and tires. I am picking up a Prologo Choice saddle (white), white bar tape, Vittoria Open Corsa Cx tires, and an Oval Concepts R900 Carbon stem with the carbon face plate. It should be done the middle or the end of next week. I will post pictures when it gets done. I was kind of surprised, I did a fitting, and I need a 110 mm stem. I thought I would need a 120, but it was just too long. My Orbea had a 100 (57) and my Bianchi had a 120 (58). Thanks again guys, your help was very important, and your advice was spot on!!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Congrats!! Glad it worked out for you and yes, definitely get some pics for us to drool over. Some riding impressions would be nice too, assuming you're not knee deep in snow!


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## Snopro440 (Dec 21, 2006)

It will be a while for a ride.. Its 9 degrees, and I was thinking that it was warm out today... I will certainly get photos once I get it all together!


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## Snopro440 (Dec 21, 2006)

*Here It Is!!*

I got all the parts and it is built up. Thanks again for your help guys!! I have to adjust the seat height down a bit, but we are going to finish the fitting tomorrow. I am very pleased with how it turned out. 17.1 lbs with pedals and cages on their fish scale.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Wow.. _*very*_ nice!! I gotta say, I'm impressed.
Glad it all worked out for you - now, enjoy the ride!! (and post a review once you get a few miles in). :yesnod:


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