# What happened to the once great Look?



## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

I love my Look 585 and I hope I never crash it or that anything happens to it. I can remember (doesn't feel all that long ago) that Look was at the top of the game pushing the boundary for frames. When the 585 and 595 came out, I remeber just being awestruck by them. Just how beautiful they were aesthetically and how great they rode. They were some of the top frames for a few years it felt like. 

Then Look went all crazy with all the integration. I know there are owners that love their 795 or 695, but neither one of those feel all that special compared to other frames on the market. Look lost it's touch and blended in with the myriad of other manufacturers. Kinda sad they no longer stand out. Kinda sad none of the 795/695/675 frames speak to me or that I have any interest in them (this view isn't only held by me, have heard it from other former Look owners and owners of older Look bikes). I would LOVE to buy a new current Look frame. I just have no interest in anything they offer. Not to mention the shops that use to carry Look seem to have dropped them. 

What happened to this once great bike maker? I'm not saying their current bikes are terrible, just that they aren't like they were in the past. They have lost that special touch. I know these are my opinions and you are free to disagree. 

Also, I noticed that Look USA is no more. When did that take place? I saw Hawley LLC out of Sparks, NV is now the distributor of Look here. Is that recent or have I just been out of the loop?


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

A complete SWAG, it probably has to do with not making money.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Same here. HATE the new designs. Love the 585.

The next Look I buy will be a used 58X model, not one of these hideous, integrated chunks of slag.


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## motoricker (May 9, 2010)

People and management come and go, and great companies decay and new companies come along. That is the way a free market works. 
I am still riding and loving a Look KG96 (from about 1986 ?) .....but I bought their latest pedals and they were absolutely horrible (Leo Blade 2). It was as if they were designed by someone who never actually rode a bicycle.


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

Does anyone know when Look USA dissolved and Hawley LLC took over? Was that new beginning of this year?



ibericb said:


> A complete SWAG, it probably has to do with not making money.


I agree. Probably because they went away from the success of the 585/595 and went down a long road that hasn't been successful? Just look at the blowout sales on the 695 you can find online. Bet the 795 goes that way as well. 

I could only imagine how great a "new" 585/595 would be with some new carbon layups and knowledge learned about composites since those frames first came out. They were already fantastic frames and had no problem moving them. They really should bring those two frames back, so that they could go back to what was working and successful.


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## mimason (Oct 7, 2006)

Agree, I like the 595 but the proprietary/integrated 'everything' swayed me from considering them in my last bike purchase.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

mimason said:


> Agree, I like the 595 but the proprietary/integrated 'everything' swayed me from considering them in my last bike purchase.


You mean the 695? The 595 had an integrated seat mast. That's about all.


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

robdamanii said:


> You mean the 695? The 595 had an integrated seat mast. That's about all.


I read it that mimason likes the 595, but when looking for a new frame the current Look 795/695 don't interest him because of all the proprietary and integrated things on the frame.


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

Looking back through some of Justin's posts about Look, it would appear that Look is more about pushing the envelope with new ideas and exploring the future, than getting bikes out on the rode en-mass. 
I guess they can afford to live off of their pedal income to fuel their R&D of "proprietary bikes of the future", but how long will that non-sense last? 

Now learning that Look USA is no more, it will be interesting to see what Look will become in the next year or so here in the States. Maybe they will become like Canyon and only be available over-seas? 

Years ago when learning that the last Look dealer in my area dropped them, they said they loved the bikes, just didn't' have any support from Look as a dealer. They told me when the 585 came out, they couldn't keep them in stock, they sold a ton and sold them fast. Why wouldn't Look want to keep that success? 

Tranzformer, they just came out with the 695ZR, which is just a frame only that will accept any crank and stem, etc. for @ $2500. 


My 585 is now 6 years old. Time to think about getting another steed in the next year or two. Sometimes I think about getting another Look just because they are so rare in my neck of the woods and I love my 585 to death. I can't imagine not having it. But with no support, and no dealer within 100's of miles of me, it might be a big hassle and mistake...I think I'll go for my dream bike and get a TIME at the dealer down the street.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

maximum7 said:


> Looking back through some of Justin's posts about Look, it would appear that Look is more about pushing the envelope with new ideas and exploring the future, than getting bikes out on the rode en-mass.
> I guess they can afford to live off of their pedal income to fuel their R&D of "proprietary bikes of the future", but how long will that non-sense last?
> 
> Now learning that Look USA is no more, it will be interesting to see what Look will become in the next year or so here in the States. Maybe they will become like Canyon and only be available over-seas?
> ...


My 585 is a 2009 Origin model. I'd trade it for NOTHING. I raced it for a half a dozen races before I realized if I ever broke it in a crash, I'd probably have to hang myself. Subsequently I raced a BMC Pro Machine and now a Scott Foil (which I also love, BTW.) But it doesn't ride like my 585.

Were it time to buy another "fun" bike, I'd search for a 585 or 595 on eBay and built it to my specs. 

My leadout man rides a 695, and he likes it. It's stiff as hell, but it rides like a 2x4. He's also having constant issues with it (granted, last year he broke a frame in a crash) but the thing is constantly in the shop for work. My 585 has been in there once because I was on vacation and didn't have time to tear it completely apart and clean it. My BMC never spent time at the shop. My Foil has only been there for a check after last month's big crash. 

The long and short of it is this: I don't trust Look anymore. All the integrated stuff, the weird BB, etc etc makes it a non-friendly creature to work on and in my world, unreliable. I've kept my 585 mechanical (compared to my race bikes) for the purity of riding a mechanical machine. Mechanical shifting perfectly complements the sublime ride quality of the 585, attaches you to the soul of the bike much more than any other bike I've ever ridden.


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

maximum7 said:


> My 585 is now 6 years old. Time to think about getting another steed in the next year or two. Sometimes I think about getting another Look just because they are so rare in my neck of the woods and I love my 585 to death. I can't imagine not having it. But with no support, and no dealer within 100's of miles of me, it might be a big hassle and mistake...I think I'll go for my dream bike and get a TIME at the dealer down the street.


If it isn't broken, is there any reason to get rid of the 585? Does everything so well that it will be hard to find anything much better. If you just want a new bike, just for the sake of having a new toy, I can respect that. There are good deals on lightly used 595 and 585 ultra/595 ultra frames if those would fancy you. I'm surprised how "cheap" those frames can go on eBay. Might be worth looking at if you feel the need to get something else. 

The 585 is just so sublime and perfect. Hard to find anything much better than it. When the 585 came out, that Look HSC 5SL full carbon fork was one of (if not the) most state of the art fork on the market at the time. I think it came in around 300g uncut. Maybe slightly less than that. The nude frame was ~1000g in a medium. Slightly more with paint IIRC. I will also say that when Look had the 585/595, my Look dealer at the time never had excess inventory left over at the end of the year that he had to put on clearance. They moved so fast that usually you had to wait a bit for them to get more in from Look. 

The 585 first came out in 2004 if I remember correctly. It is based on +10 year old technology and understanding of composites. Don't see why Look couldn't revive the 585 frame (lugs and all) throw some extra time redoing the layups and use the most state of art carbon fiber (TeXtreme, Toray t1100, or whatever they could get their hands on) and drop some more weight from the frame and make the ride even more sublime (is that even possible). Say a 280-290g fork uncut and a frame that weighs in the low 900g range with even better comfort and stiffness. I'd be all over that hand over first.

I am never, ever, ever selling my 585 team (white), just like rob above. Just too great of a frame. I'd actually look to find one in great condition for a good deal to stash away for a rainy day. Maybe a 585 ultra.


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

I didn't say replace. I just want to get another so I can give it a rest once in a while. Like I said, I can't imagine not having it and having something else to ride will help it last longer. 
I got my wife a 566 and it rides very nice. It doesn't "feel" as snappy, but it's solid and super smooth. 

My 585 is an Optimum. I have long legs and short arms. I would have bought a 595 if I could have got comfortable on one. 

If Look was still in my area I would like to test the new 695 ZR. 
Look Cycle - 695 ZR - Bikes - Road

Since it's not, Time is one of the few other companies I respect.


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

Gothca. Sorry for misunderstanding. 

I also like Time and think that would be a great choice. Always wondered about and have been tempted to get a Time VXRS Ulteam. Maybe one day. 

I'm not big on the connotation of owning a Colnago but the C59 is a great bike. I'm personally drawn in by carbon lugs.


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## mimason (Oct 7, 2006)

tranzformer said:


> I read it that mimason likes the 595, but when looking for a new frame the current Look 795/695 don't interest him because of all the proprietary and integrated things on the frame.


Yes, this. I should have been more clear.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

I tried to get a 695 a few years ago, nobody even picked up the phone or answered any emails. And I tried for a few weeks.

If they don't want me to buy their bike fine with me, lots of others to choose from.


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## Chupalt (Sep 5, 2008)

tranzformer said:


> Does anyone know when Look USA dissolved and Hawley LLC took over? Was that new beginning of this year?


This isn't a recent occurrence. When I went to Interbike in September of 2013, Hawley LLC had taken over all USA distributorship for Look. I spoke with the Hawley reps about it at length.


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

Chupalt said:


> This isn't a recent occurrence. When I went to Interbike in September of 2013, Hawley LLC had taken over all USA distributorship for Look. I spoke with the Hawley reps about it at length.


Hawley had a distribution "relationship" with Look since 2013. This change took place January 2015 when Hawley took over all U.S. sales, marketing, and after-sales service for Look Cycle.


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

It stated with their pedals sucking so bad. Poor seals, lots of drag, poor cleat/pedal interface. . squeaking. . .


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## twiggy73 (Jan 19, 2010)

As a Look collector with 5 Looks in my stable (kg86 565 585 595Ultra x 2) I like the fact that look pushes the boundaries. Look at pinnarello and the new rear suspension concept!! 
I have ridden a 695 675 and the 795. All very different rides. All I can say is ride them before you rule then out. 
The 795 rides like a F1 car amazing steering response, fast and surprisingly comfortable. The 695 is like a rally car fast and nimble and adaptable. The 675 is very much like a 585 a comfortable all day long!!! Yes the integration pushes not only the technology boundaries but the boundaries in our brains as to what we believe a bike should look like. But once you are on the bike you hardly notice them. The one thing you do notice is the look ride qualities are still there !!! I walked away in love with the 795 after the ride. The price is the only thing between me and the bike !!!


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

twiggy73 said:


> As a Look collector with 5 Looks in my stable (kg86 565 585 595Ultra x 2) I like the fact that look pushes the boundaries. Look at pinnarello and the new rear suspension concept!!
> I have ridden a 695 675 and the 795. All very different rides. All I can say is ride them before you rule then out.
> The 797 rides like a F1 car amazing steering response, fast and surprisingly comfortable. The 695 is like a rally car fast and nimble and adaptable. The 675 is very much like a 585 a comfortable all day long!!! Yes the integration pushes not only the technology boundaries but the boundaries in our brains as to what we believe a bike should look like. But once you are on the bike you hardly notice them. The one thing you do notice is the look ride qualities are still there !!! I walked away in love with the 795 after the ride. The price is the only thing between me and the bike !!!


I will not ride any of the new Looks on the basis of aesthetics alone.

And I refuse to deal with integrated stems and such. Don't take away my choices, and I'll be more game to try it.


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## twiggy73 (Jan 19, 2010)

Are you saying. that if you could still get a lugged Look frame like the 585 you would be more willing to try new designs like the 795? 

It must be hard for all the manufacturers to keep the things we like and at the same time keep up with the publics demand for new technology and design. 
Advancements in new materials, lay up of carbon fibers and new cureing processes all come from pushing the boundaries. 
I am glad that Look is doing that and they are still one of the only bike manufacturers manufacturing the majority of their own frames Maybe one day they may apply what They have learned from bikes likes the 795 and release a new lugged frame of the future. But I guess we will have to wait and see! ! 
It is good to see so much passion regarding their frames. and the legendary 585 !!!


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## hawker12 (Oct 19, 2003)

Anyone have one in the Tangerine color? I just love it and if you have one in an XS...please contact me.


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

Aren't production costs cheaper for monocoque frames? Sure you need to consider the costs of the molds, but the labor costs are surely cheaper than doing lugged carbon bikes and the other labor intensive aspects of lugged frames.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

twiggy73 said:


> Are you saying. that if you could still get a lugged Look frame like the 585 you would be more willing to try new designs like the 795?
> 
> It must be hard for all the manufacturers to keep the things we like and at the same time keep up with the publics demand for new technology and design.
> Advancements in new materials, lay up of carbon fibers and new cureing processes all come from pushing the boundaries.
> ...


No, I'm saying that if they produced an "updated" 585/595 I would absolutely be looking at it, even though I don't need a new bike. The aesthetics reference refers to the 675 and 795 (with the 695 close behind): They are *HIDEOUSLY UGLY* machines. The 695 is only _HIDEOUSLY UGLY_. Between the aesthetics, which I hate, and the integration crap they've been pulling, I want no part of their new stable of bikes. (Bear in mind that my 585 is my pleasure bike: it's what I ride just for fun. My Foil is my race bike, which I'll accept compromises in, sort of.)

For me, I want the ability to select my entire cockpit, group set, etc without a company telling me "our stem is the best, so use it" or "our cranks are the best, so use them."

I have a teammate with a 695. That thing is ALWAYS in the stand being worked on. No thanks. I'm very happy with my plain old 1 1/8" stem and old school threaded BB on my 585 (and somewhat happy with the press fit on my Foil.)


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

twiggy73 said:


> Are you saying. that if you could still get a lugged Look frame like the 585 you would be more willing to try new designs like the 795?
> 
> _*It must be hard for all the manufacturers to keep the things we like and at the same time keep up with the publics demand for new technology and design. *_
> Advancements in new materials, lay up of carbon fibers and new cureing processes all come from pushing the boundaries.
> ...


It isn't the public demanding it. That is the thing. It is the marketing department demanding claims of 100grams lighter and 5% stiffer and 20% more compliant...because all the damn bikes made anywhere by anyone (including cheap look-a-likes from China) are more than good enough for anyone, and at this point the only determining factor in purchase really is local availability and color.



Did the public demand 20 new bottom bracket styles, half of which are proprietary to the framset OEM, to replace square taper (and half of which function worse than the square tapers they replaced)? No. The bike OEMs wasted the millions of USD on R&D on their own.

Do people like lighter bikes? Yes. But it got insane half a decade or more ago.

Has anyone ever said, "Geeee I wish my stem/handlebar was never replaceable on my bike without buying a new fork"? Hell no.


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## twiggy73 (Jan 19, 2010)

Marc said:


> It isn't the public demanding it. That is the thing. It is the marketing department demanding claims of 100grams lighter and 5% stiffer and 20% more compliant...because all the damn bikes made anywhere by anyone (including cheap look-a-likes from China) are more than good enough for anyone, and at this point the only determining factor in purchase really is local availability and color.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The public didn't ask Look to make a carbon alloy lugged kg86 yet they did and look at where that had lead the whole bicycle industry. And some of that technology has crossed over into other industries and has lead to innovation that has transformed the way we ride, fly and drive. 

Most people looking for a new ride go into their bike shop and want to see and buy the latest frame and the latest technology and yes the marketing is based around that human desire. The latest technology is not always better than the past. But it is a selling point. But we do want it!!! Like people want the latest iPhone or the newest and greatest Garmin on their handle bars or even the latest cycling shoes or pedals The marketing is designed to play on that. And with desire comes innovation and innovation in time benefits everyone. 

Not everyone is going to love the latest designs but that is a risk Look were obviously willing to take. 
I too was unsure at first but after riding a 795 I was converted. The ride is amazing. I am not rushing out to get one but if I won the lottery I might !! 

Twiigy73


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

Don't be so hopeful. 
LOOK will never go back to lugs or re-issuing the 5's. 
Look is pushing technology for the minor few that will buy it. Kind of the way Lamborghini and Koenigsegg produce a few high-end cars. It's a statement only. 
They live off of pedal income. Look at their facebook posts. It's full of pedal victories, and then I get an email about the A stem like it's the greatest thing. Unfortunately it's hardly universal. 

Maybe they're getting a clue as they have released the 695 ZR, so at least you can use regular components and not have to go through the chain-ring nitemares. 
It's neat that Look is pushing bike technology, but when that technology is finicky and hard to service, it's not worth it. It has to make sense to the end user. Add the lack of dealer support and product, at least here in the States, and you've got a company who's future doesn't look to bright. At least in my opinion. 


Twiggy, you are fortunate, as it seems you're able to go hop on any Look, any time for a test ride. 
I don't know of a dealer who sells Look or even wants to sell Look within hundreds of miles from me. Maybe a 1000 miles. 

I would like to try the 695. I do like the looks of the 675, but the reviews I've read, and from what some posters here have said about it feeling slow and sluggish, keep it off my list as a possible 585 replacement. 'Course I don't even know how I'd get one anyways.


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## twiggy73 (Jan 19, 2010)

maximum7 said:


> Don't be so hopeful.
> LOOK will never go back to lugs or re-issuing the 5's.
> Look is pushing technology for the minor few that will buy it. Kind of the way Lamborghini and Koenigsegg produce a few high-end cars. It's a statement only.
> They live off of pedal income. Look at their facebook posts. It's full of pedal victories, and then I get an email about the A stem like it's the greatest thing. Unfortunately it's hardly universal.
> ...


I tend to agree with your statement. 

If you ever make it to Melbourne Australia look me up and we can go and ride them all. I agree the 675 is a little sluggish but it's so comfortable you could ride 100 miles with out realising it


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