# Whatever happened to Litespeed?



## on board (Jun 18, 2010)

About 10 years ago, Litespeed was one of the most desirable bikes on the market. They had a lineup of truly quality frames, all of which were titanium, and you could get one to match your needs whether it was for racing, touring, or whatever. They looked really timeless and classy as well. I was just looking at today's site and they are now mostly carbon, with merely one or two kind of ugly titanium options. what happened?


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

ABG happened.


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## on board (Jun 18, 2010)

Their current lineup looks really cheap. Nothing that looks handcrafted at all. Hard to believe these brands get bought out at great expense, only to be ruined in this way.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

xjbaylor said:


> ABG happened.


+1...... :thumbsup:


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## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

Get a Lynskey.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

on board said:


> About 10 years ago, Litespeed was one of the most desirable bikes on the market. They had a lineup of truly quality frames, all of which were titanium, and you could get one to match your needs whether it was for racing, touring, or whatever. They looked really timeless and classy as well. I was just looking at today's site and they are now mostly carbon, with merely one or two kind of ugly titanium options. what happened?


After making a humorous video extolling the benefits of titanium over carbon, they realized that the joke was on them.


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## skepticman (Dec 25, 2005)

They had an entire website about why titanium is the best frame material. The site is gone now, but here is a Wayback Machine copy.

Why Titanium?

I posted some hilarious quotes from their 2006 catalog in this thread.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/ge...duct-copy-237488-post3162491.html#post3162491

I used to like Litespeed, and owned a Catalyst long ago, and still own a Tuscany. Now my Moots is my favorite bike. I posted an extensive critique of Litespeed quality in this thread. [Please, nobody reply and revive these ancient threads]

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bi...420-320-a-144435-post1744585.html#post1744585


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

What?! This kind of beautiful welding and craftsmanship doesn't get you excited? Look at the welds! 

I had the opportunity to put several testing miles on a LITESPEED Archon Ti when I was considering my latest bike. It felt... wrong. It looked wrong. It rode... wrong. I also didn't like the tin can tubing they are using to keep up with the CF weight weenies. 

I think a great race bike can be made out of titanium and be comparable to a lot of the CF frames. But I don't think LITESPEED makes that bike. I had Seven design a Ti bike to achieve the ride I was looking for in a Titanium race bike.


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## vagabondcyclist (Apr 2, 2011)

brianmcg said:


> Get a Lynskey.


Yep.....


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## zyzzx (Apr 21, 2011)

moving towards carbon


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## Magsdad (Jun 29, 2005)

Dajianshan said:


> What?! This kind of beautiful welding and craftsmanship doesn't get you excited? Look at the welds!
> 
> I had the opportunity to put several testing miles on a LITESPEED Archon Ti when I was considering my latest bike. It felt... wrong. It looked wrong. It rode... wrong. I also didn't like the tin can tubing they are using to keep up with the CF weight weenies.
> 
> I think a great race bike can be made out of titanium and be comparable to a lot of the CF frames. But I don't think LITESPEED makes that bike. I had Seven design a Ti bike to achieve the ride I was looking for in a Titanium race bike.


I felt the same way. I rode a LS many years ago, tried a new one. Last time I will ever even think about one. Such a shame. And DAMN, those welds are grotesque!


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

American Bicycle Group bought out the Lynskey name and diluted the quality of the brand. The Lynskey family was barred from re-entering the titanium bicycle market for several years. That waiting period is long over and they are back as Lynskey Performance. Same unsurpassed titanium quality, different name.


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## skepticman (Dec 25, 2005)

Peter P. said:


> Same unsurpassed titanium quality, different name.


I think nearly every Carl Strong, Seven, Serotta, Moots, Eriksen, IndyFab, Firefly and pre-ABG Merlin owner (and many non-owners who have seen the frames in person) would dispute that statement. It's hard to think of a company that makes obviously lower quality titanium bikes than Lynskey IMHO.


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## skepticman (Dec 25, 2005)

Oh yeah, for anyone actually interested in a new Litespeed, there are a couple new models coming out. Amazingly, one is titanium.

First Look! 2012 Litespeed L1R BB386EVO Road Bike & Cohutta Titanium 29er Hardtail - Bike Rumor

I had expected Litespeed to abandon metal completely after ABG sold their building to Lynskey.

Bicycle Retailer and Industry News


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## bwhite_4 (Aug 29, 2006)

skepticman said:


> I think nearly every Carl Strong, Seven, Serotta, Moots, Eriksen, IndyFab, Firefly and pre-ABG Merlin owner (and many non-owners who have seen the frames in person) would dispute that statement. It's hard to think of a company that makes obviously lower quality titanium bikes than Lynskey IMHO.


Well, there are many asian Ti frames that are crappy - but I can't think of lower-end american made Ti frame than lynskey.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

I heard somewhere that all the current Litespeed frames are made in China. Don't know if that's true, but the welds look much more crude than the ones on my 1999 Litespeed Ultimate. I still ride that bike and am quite happy with it. 

When Lynskey owned Litespeed, there were a couple of years where they sold aluminum frame bikes under the Litespeed name. I doubt they were made in the TN factory. 

Like most people in the bike business who want to survive, Lynskey is constantly coming up with new and "improved" products. Whether these improvements really amount to much, except to make your bike look dated in a few years, is questionable. 

SInce ABG bought Litespeed, it's gone downhill pretty fast. A carbon fiber Litespeed is practically a contradiction in terms IMO. I don't think they do 6/4 titanium anymore. 

I often wonder what happened to all the Litespeeds arond here (DC area). They used to be all over the place. Now, I rarely ever see one.


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## Lou3000 (Aug 25, 2010)

Litespeed was once my dream bike. 

I actually think some of their carbon bikes are sort of cool, but they don't have the lust factor that the old titanium offerings did.


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## Special Eyes (Feb 2, 2011)

bwhite_4 said:


> Well, there are many asian Ti frames that are crappy - but I can't think of lower-end american made Ti frame than lynskey.


You're kidding, right?


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

pmf said:


> I heard somewhere that all the current Litespeed frames are made in China. Don't know if that's true, but the welds look much more crude than the ones on my 1999 Litespeed Ultimate. I still ride that bike and am quite happy with it.
> 
> When Lynskey owned Litespeed, there were a couple of years where they sold aluminum frame bikes under the Litespeed name. I doubt they were made in the TN factory.
> 
> ...


Most Ti makers do not work 6/4 anymore. Moots only recently started selling their RSL with 6/4 stays. 6/4 takes much more effort to work and is more expensive, and last I knew harder to source.

SpectrumCycles has a good bit to say about 6/4:

Spectrum-Cycles


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Marc said:


> Most Ti makers do not work 6/4 anymore. Moots only recently started selling their RSL with 6/4 stays. 6/4 takes much more effort to work and is more expensive, and last I knew harder to source.
> 
> SpectrumCycles has a good bit to say about 6/4:
> 
> Spectrum-Cycles


I think Seven bikes has something similar on their site. Funny how companies that only offer 3/2.5 titanium bikes can criticize 6/4 titanium. 

Yes, 6/4 is harder to fabricate and costlier. I think everyone knows that. You can make a lighter titanium bike out of 6/4. The old Litespeed was one of the few companies that ever utilized 6/4 titanium for a complete frame (the Vortex). Probably the reason it isn't getting used by anyone anymore is that the resulting bike is not that much lighter, but it is that much more costly. Plus, it's hard for titanium to compete with carbon fiber on weight. If you want a really light weight frame, you buy something made of carbon fiber. 

Litespeed used to make titanium bikes for Spectrum (Tom Kellogg) and Eddy Merckx. Guys like that would not have used Litespeed if the quality of their products wasn't there. Whoever says Litespeed/Lynskey makes poor quality frames is sorely mistaken.


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## skepticman (Dec 25, 2005)

pmf said:


> When Lynskey owned Litespeed, there were a couple of years where they sold aluminum frame bikes under the Litespeed name. I doubt they were made in the TN factory.


They sold several Asian-made aluminum frames as well as the carbon fiber Pavia for a while. Merlin also had carbon. How the mighty have fallen.

Merlin Works 2006: Road Bikes C110


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

skepticman said:


> They sold several Asian-made aluminum frames as well as the carbon fiber Pavia for a while. Merlin also had carbon. How the mighty have fallen.
> 
> Merlin Works 2006: Road Bikes C110


Hopefully Merlin is on their way back. The label is out from ABG's thumb and is now owned by CompetitiveCyclist.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2011)

Dajianshan said:


> What?! This kind of beautiful welding and craftsmanship doesn't get you excited? Look at the welds!
> 
> I had the opportunity to put several testing miles on a LITESPEED Archon Ti when I was considering my latest bike. It felt... wrong. It looked wrong. It rode... wrong. I also didn't like the tin can tubing they are using to keep up with the CF weight weenies.
> 
> I think a great race bike can be made out of titanium and be comparable to a lot of the CF frames. But I don't think LITESPEED makes that bike. I had Seven design a Ti bike to achieve the ride I was looking for in a Titanium race bike.


Please tell me the photo attached to your post has been photoshopped.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

billium said:


> Please tell me the photo attached to your post has been photoshopped.


Nope. You can see it on Litespeed's website:

Litespeed Bicycles :: ARCHON TI


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## giosblue (Aug 2, 2009)

I have a Litespeed Icon and before that I had a Tuscany, The welds on both bike are perfect, the alignment was spot on and they both ride like dream. The Icon is a fantastic bike.

I can't understand why people keep knocking them.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

skepticman said:


> I think nearly every Carl Strong, Seven, Serotta, Moots, Eriksen, IndyFab, Firefly and pre-ABG Merlin owner (and many non-owners who have seen the frames in person) would dispute that statement. It's hard to think of a company that makes obviously lower quality titanium bikes than Lynskey IMHO.


Your entitled to your opinion and I’ll have mine. I’ve owned IF, Moots, Serotta, and Seven (as well as Dean, Litespeed, Omega/Enigma, TST, and Spicer) and I wouldn’t say any of them are/were “better” than either my Lynskey L3 or Helix, just different. They each had their own strengths and weakness as well as their own unique characteristics. Of note, both the IF and my Moots were boat anchors comparatively speaking. I liked the Serotta and Seven (not blown away by the welds by the way) but not enough to keep them after riding my first demo Lynskey in ‘07. Aesthetically, I can honestly say the Moots had the best welds followed closely by my Dean but IME none rode better than either of my Lynskeys (geometry was spot on, the weight was the best of the bunch, and the stiffness was just right). Truth is all of the brands you mentioned are stellar but none in my opinion are any better than the other, just buy whatever moves you...


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## foggypeake (Sep 11, 2005)

I've got a Litespeed Classic (Lynskey built) and a Merckx Majestic (built by Litespeed, ABG era) and both are great bikes. I can't tell any obvious differences in the weld quality.

I think that Litespeed built its early reputation as a speciality titanium builder, but then it lost its way after the ABG takeover. That is the point at which the company started selling aluminum bikes and eventually carbon, where the huge profits of carbon bikes were too attractive to pass up.

If I was to buy another ti frame, my choices would be Lynskey, Seven, or maybe Moots or Ericksen.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

bwhite_4 said:


> Well, there are many asian Ti frames that are crappy - but I can't think of lower-end american made Ti frame than lynskey.


Lower end??  Or do you mean that they offer a model that isn't super expensive? I can name several "over priced" straight guage 3/2.5 Ti frames that are less advanced and more expensive. Lynskey just happens to have the offerings for all budgets.


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## Mersault (Jan 3, 2005)

I'm the original owner of a 2000 LS Tuscany. I don't plan on getting rid of it or getting another Titanium frame. That said if I was in the market for new one now I don't think I'd choose a current LS model, the Xicon Ti looks OK I guess, but that's the only choice I would even consider in the LS line. Seems to me Lynskey is what Litespeed was 10 years ago. Which it was. I'd likely turn to them if I was so inclined.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

It's not the same company. To their credit, they appear to be making the bikes in the U.S. and one of the two remaining titanium models does use some 6/4 titanium. However ... all they offer these days is two titanium road bikes in limited (5 or 6 choices) sizing. Not the same company by a long shot. Then again, the market for titanium bikes isn't what it once was. 

Whatever the case, I'm keeping mine for the forseeable future.


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## jr59 (Mar 30, 2011)

pmf said:


> I think Seven bikes has something similar on their site. Funny how companies that only offer 3/2.5 titanium bikes can criticize 6/4 titanium.
> 
> Yes, 6/4 is harder to fabricate and costlier. I think everyone knows that. You can make a lighter titanium bike out of 6/4. The old Litespeed was one of the few companies that ever utilized 6/4 titanium for a complete frame (the Vortex). Probably the reason it isn't getting used by anyone anymore is that the resulting bike is not that much lighter, but it is that much more costly. Plus, it's hard for titanium to compete with carbon fiber on weight. If you want a really light weight frame, you buy something made of carbon fiber.
> 
> Litespeed used to make titanium bikes for Spectrum (Tom Kellogg) and Eddy Merckx. Guys like that would not have used Litespeed if the quality of their products wasn't there. Whoever says Litespeed/Lynskey makes poor quality frames is sorely mistaken.


Not according to Tom Kellogg! Merlin made his Ti frames. Not litespeed! He now uses Merlin for the tubing and Seven for the welding! 
Plus, keep in mind that Ford made pintos and also lincoln continentals, same company different quality.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

jr59 said:


> Not according to Tom Kellogg! Merlin made his Ti frames. Not litespeed! He now uses Merlin for the tubing and Seven for the welding!
> Plus, keep in mind that Ford made pintos and also lincoln continentals, same company different quality.


Both were fabricated in the same facility. Based on what I was told a select group of Litespeed welders handled the Merlins.


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## penn_rider (Jul 11, 2009)

Merlins were shite bikes, plain and simple. Those with money who wanted to ride for show bought into this brand. In the mid 90's I worked in a shop that sold several high end brands and rode each that I built up. The Merlin was an al dente noodle compared to even a mid priced steel. Merlin owners were the look at me crowd that always seemed to be the first to put on Spinergy Rev - X wheels,,, more al dente noodles...
A lot has changed since then, and now CF seems to be the way to go. I just can't see non custom TI lasting,, sadly every other material is likely in the same boat.

Custom steel and TI will be the last great bicycle movement aside from CF.


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

What I do find interesting is the history of collaboration between the titanium frame builders from tube sourcing, welding and design. The Merlin-Seven-Spectrum-Litespeed-Lynskey "6 degrees of separation" is actually really fascinating.


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## teoteoteo (Sep 8, 2002)

A lot of mis-information in this thread and some correct too. Mark Lynskey was very much involved during 6 years of ABG period. It is very often forgotten. These were the years with the alum models etc 

Lynskey leaves Litespeed › Titanium Rides

More than just Tom Kellog used Litespeed/ABG to make their bikes, others included Jeff Jones Spacebikes, etc 

Jeff Jones Bicycles - Production Framesets



Lynskey was the last member of the founding family of Litespeed to remain with the company after JHK Investments purchased it in 1999 and it became American Bicycle Group.

"Mark has been with the company since he was a young man and has been instrumental in bringing the company to the next level and will truly be missed," said ABG president and chief executive officer Steve Lewis. "But we have a very enthusiastic and capable group of people here and it is all onward and upward."

Lewis joined the company two years ago in an advisory role and has served in his current role since last fall. At that time, Lynskey gave up the title of president and operational responsibilities, becoming vice president and assuming sales and marketing responsibilities.


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## aholguin (Mar 16, 2011)

I saw the weld on that Litespeed and Ahhhhhhhhhh! Get a Lynskey


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

You know to be 100% fair to Litespeed, I’ve actually test rode an Archeon and to its defense the welds didn’t look like that. They were pretty neat/tidy actually. I remember thinking it was a pretty neat design. I just didn’t like the way it rode. That said, whoever the marketing genius that approved the picture for public consumption ought to be drug tested.


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

The Archon I tested looked a lot like that. It was one of those moments the retailer is trying to sell you on something and seems to think it is the coolest... and you have to feign that you are impressed. 

Not like these welds:


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## merckxman (Jan 23, 2002)

had a Merlin ExtraLight...what a noodle, mine was terrible. But, I know guys that likes theirs. 

QUOTE=penn_rider;3500643]Merlins were shite bikes, plain and simple. Those with money who wanted to ride for show bought into this brand. In the mid 90's I worked in a shop that sold several high end brands and rode each that I built up. The Merlin was an al dente noodle compared to even a mid priced steel. Merlin owners were the look at me crowd that always seemed to be the first to put on Spinergy Rev - X wheels,,, more al dente noodles...
A lot has changed since then, and now CF seems to be the way to go. I just can't see non custom TI lasting,, sadly every other material is likely in the same boat.

Custom steel and TI will be the last great bicycle movement aside from CF.[/QUOTE]


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## paul y. (Apr 7, 2008)

brianmcg said:


> Get a Lynskey.


+1 Amen


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Has that Gary Helfrich guy been forgotten?
Bicycling used to deify him fifteen or twenty years ago. There was an article about him teaching ti framebuilding, and saying "anyone could do it".


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## Bobsled (Mar 25, 2011)

Yeah, I think currently Lynskey or Moots are at the top of their game.


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## teoteoteo (Sep 8, 2002)

Lot of people comparing the welds on BB's and such to the wrapped weld on the head tube of the Archon. Not really an apples to apples comparison. The 6/4 tube is wrapped around the head tube and welded, it's the hardest part making that bike and a long awkward weld to make. Is it pretty, not to me, but was designed to stiffen up the head tube. A Xicon weld here from a round tube model


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## rgordin (Oct 22, 2010)

I own a 2000 Vortex. I think the Lynskeys sold in 1999 although the 2000 brochure shows bikes with the David Lynskey decal. I would think Litespeed did not change its building techniques overnight and, in fact, some of the Lynskeys stayed on. In fact, in this kind of operation, where much depends on the owners, it would be typical for the sellers to stay on for a while and have incentive payments tied to continuing profits.

Some decals are missing from my bike. So my question is whether there is any way to tell whether the Lynskey family or their builders were still working on the 2000 frames.


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## alexchic (Mar 14, 2005)

giosblue said:


> I have a Litespeed Icon and before that I had a Tuscany, The welds on both bike are perfect, the alignment was spot on and they both ride like dream. The Icon is a fantastic bike.
> 
> I can't understand why people keep knocking them.


Seconded about the Icon. Probably Litespeed's last great ti bike.


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## teoteoteo (Sep 8, 2002)

alexchic said:


> Seconded about the Icon. Probably Litespeed's last great ti bike.


Icon and Archon shared many tubes and same geometry, the Archon was designed at the time to look and appeal to carbon owners while the Icon was designed get be a more affordable version with no 6/4 and less wrap of downtube and top tube at headtube junction.


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