# What do with these strap things?



## Gabriel454 (Jun 13, 2005)

Okay, so I'm a mountainbiker... I did a LOT of research on several road bikes around the same price range and now I'm the proud owner of... Not a trek 1000, not a giant, nothing but the bike that really seemed to be everything I wanted... well maybe the seat doesn't fall into that category.

Okay so I normally ride a Gary Fisher Tassahara with really high end parts on it. Then I got a job 15.8 miles away from my home. After killing myself riding a 30 Mile round trip I started looking at something a little more efficient.

I'm really really good friends with my local bike shop. I've been distributing thier buisnes cards for months and they really know how to keep me comming back. So, I rode every road bike in the shop (probably about 20 times). Then I went to other bike shops and tried to do tha same thing. (not the best results with this idea) Something kept me comming back time and time again to the elegant looking blue specialized allez. (I must have mispronounced it a hundred times now) I've ridden bikes that cost more than my left arm, and really don't understand why the Allez isn't more expensive. Not that I'm complaining of course.

So, now what do I do? I don't particularly like the idea of having my feet tangled up in the straps on the pedals. Should I just take the strap thingys off? do they serve any real purpose? I mean I don't understand why there are clipless(?) pedals. sounds funny cause they have clips. The guys at the bikeshop say that it will make me faster if i learn how to use them, but how is this going to make me faster? My feet don't usually slip around all that much on regular pedals.

Severly perplexed,

Gabriel


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Aug 13, 2004)

They're called toe straps by the way. The clips being referred to was a cleat that was on your shoe that clipped to the edge of the pedal, then to hold that in place the toe strap was tightened. Nice in that it held your foot on the pedal for efficiency, but kind of difficult to get in and out of. This is now an old school pedal system, especially among road bikers, and while I'm sure some still run them, most have moved on to clipless pedals (dumb name, just means they're not the clip type pedals). Clipless pedals are the type using a cleat on your shoe that clicks into a ski binding type mechanism in the pedal, entering and exiting with a simple twist of your foot. 

The advantage to using clip or clipless pedals is that your foot can now pull up as well as push down on the pedal, and use more of your leg muscles during the pedal stroke, generally making you faster. 

Sounds like you run flats (pedals with no retention system at all) currently on your mountain bike, I would think you would have given clipless a try by now, and you might want to consider it. The learning curve can be a bit difficult, but I think it's well worth it.


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## Lifelover (Jul 8, 2004)

*Lose the strap but keep the cage*

If you don't want to go to the clipless pedals that require special shoes when you do you commute, I would recommend keeping the existing pedals but just remove the cloth strap. You won't get the full benefit of being "strapped" in but the cage does help a little for forward foot slip and it ensures you keep you foot if the right location on the pedal.


By the way, if you ever do decide to go to the clipless system you would double you speed maybe triple it if you practice your pedal circle more.


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## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

I use clipless pedals (Eggbeaters) when I mountain bike... road bikes don't have a monopoly on clipless. I hate riding with platforms for clip/strap pedals...


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## bmateo (Mar 13, 2003)

Lifelover said:


> By the way, if you ever do decide to go to the clipless system you would double you speed maybe triple it if you practice your pedal circle more.


Wow, I'd have to disagree. Let's say he's only going 8 mph with flat pedals. Now, he's going to be doing 24 mph??? Doubt it. 



bikingfoolforlife said:


> The clips being referred to was a cleat that was on your shoe that clipped to the edge of the pedal, then to hold that in place the toe strap was tightened.


Again, some questionable info.... Strap systems did not have cleats (that I'm aware of anyway). They had the strap to retain your foot, but no cleat. They were kind of dangerous, because if they were tight enough to be effective, then they were too tight to easily get out of.

Modern day "clipless" systems utilize this cleat, which connects to the pedal. They take some practice, but once you're used to them, they are like second nature, and they will add speed and efficiency to your road ride, and all that PLUS added control to your MTB ride. I could not imagine riding without them anymore, but they do take some getting used to.

Not only will they allow you to "use more of your leg muscles", but they also allow you to take full advantage of the entire rotation of the pedals. Instead of "mashing" while your foot is pushing down, you can apply even pressure all the way through. On a road bike it's more efficient and smooth. On a MTB, the added smoothness is the difference between making a technical climb and maybe spinning out or having to push.


If you decide to keep the old school clip systems, the other option (as apposed to totally removing the straps) is to run them super loose, so you can get out easily. Same effect, a bit more stability IMO.

Also, with the real clipless, you can buy a touring shoe, or even get a "Hiking Boot Style" MTB shoe. They also make sandles, and regular looking shoes with mounts for the cleat. This is nice, as it is very hard to walk normally in a really stiff road racing shoe, and it is probably kinda scary on a hard floor at work...


I do think that getting clipless will add a few MPH to your speed once you get used to them, and will definitely take you to a new level of riding that will have all sorts of benefits including speed, distance, control and smoother riding in general.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

*Seems like history now.*



> _Strap systems did not have cleats (that I'm aware of anyway). _


Strap systems did have cleats. Basically it was a simple slot on the bottom of the shoe that fit over the metal edge of the pedal. That allowed you to push forward and pull back, but with the strap loose, the slot (and shoe) would lift off the metal edge of the pedal at the slightest upward pull. However, as you pulled the strap tighter and tighter, it became harder and harder to lift the shoe off the pedal.

The whole system worked well if you adjusted the tightness of the strap to what was going on around you - very loose in traffic, tighter out on a training ride, painfully tight just before a sprint. I think that this need to always think about and fiddle with your strap during a ride or a race was its demise, along with a few other comfort problems. Pulling the strap "tight until it screamed" was also an unwanted signal to other riders that you were about to do something spectacular, like go off the front or contend the sprint.

One advantage of the strap system was the fact that the racing shoe could be built extremely light. The connection between foot and pedal was the strap, not the shoe itself. With modern "clipless" systems, the shoe itself has to transfer all the forces, making it bulky and heavy. I'm guessing that the combined weight of a 1970's pedal, shoe, toe clip and strap is much less than the combined weight of even the lightest modern pedal and shoe. Someone correct me if that's not so.


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## bmateo (Mar 13, 2003)

wim said:


> Strap systems did have cleats. Basically it was a simple slot on the bottom of the shoe that fit over the metal edge of the pedal. That allowed you to push forward and pull back, but with the strap loose, the slot (and shoe) would lift off the metal edge of the pedal at the slightest upward pull. However, as you pulled the strap tighter and tighter, it became harder and harder to lift the shoe off the pedal.


I stand corrected. Very interesting. (Not what I was picturing when I think about a cleat, but corrected none-the-less.)

Thanks...


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## Cory (Jan 29, 2004)

*Dissenting view from The Last Toe Clip User....*

[For starters, use what you like. One of the strongest riders I know rides a single-speed Gary Fisher MB with platform pedals, old-style three-speed handlebars and a basket in front, and he's done a sub-five hour century on it.
As for toe clips, though, I still use them for most of my riding because they work in traffic, I can ride down to the corner for a cappuccino in street shoes and I don't have to walk like a duck in the 7-Eleven. I've ridden quite a bit with clipless pedals, and periodically I'll put them back on for a long ride, but I honestly can't measure a difference in time, fatigue, climbing ability or anything else between toe clips and clipless.
Incidentally, there are two misconceptions in a couple of the other posts in this thread: Toe clips actually WERE used with cleats--some shoes had a cleat with a slot in it that accepted the back of those old "rat trap" pedals, then you pulled the straps tight and you were locked in. I mean REALLY locked--you had to reach down and loosen the strap before you stopped or you'd fall over.
And the idea that you CAN'T pull up with toe clips and you DO pull up with clipless pedals is pretty much bogus. You could pull up with toe clips, if the straps were tight, but almost nobody DOES pull up, even with clipless pedals, except for short spurts in climbs and sprints. I saw a strain gauge test a few years ago measuring where the power was coming from, and the results showed that even very accomplished cyclists get nearly all of it from just behind top dead center of the rotation down to just before bottom dead center.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

*Picture.*

Really old nail-on cleats on nice shoes. Very short nails only!  

1980's cleats fastened with screws, and were somewhat adjustable for angle and fore-aft position.


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## Gabriel454 (Jun 13, 2005)

Cory said:


> [ sub-five hour century


What's this?


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## Dave_Stohler (Jan 22, 2004)

My suggestion is to get rid of those worthless toe-strap pedals and get a decent pair of clipless pedals. If you show up at a club ride with them, they'll all know that you're a newbie. *Nobody* uses them anymore.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Aug 13, 2004)

Gabriel454 said:


> What's this?


A century ride is 100 miles, so doing it in under 5 hrs means an average of 20mph or better, a benchmark of sorts.


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## HAL9000 (May 1, 2002)

Stohler strikes again!


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## HAL9000 (May 1, 2002)

I had a pair of Detto's back in the mid 70's. (but didn't have the colorfull logo sewed on, got 'em at Zumwalts on University for a song) & the same cleats that I installed myself. The nails that came with were way too short & would have obviously pulled out. So I went into my garage, found some longer nails & had at. Having known well of hobenail boots, I knew all about bending the nails over on the inside(duh, no kidding). The cleats were positioned perfectly, never loosened & served me well. I was always (almost, 'cept for a few panic 'flops') able to twist my foot & release when needed. Christophie (sp?) clips & straps all the way, have fond memories riding around San Diego in those shoes.


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## fedgrl8 (Jul 11, 2005)

I've been reading this whole disscussion, and I'm still confused. Are "clipless " pedals the ones you have to clip into and out of?


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## Cerddwyr (Jul 26, 2004)

filtersweep said:


> I use clipless pedals (Eggbeaters) when I mountain bike... road bikes don't have a monopoly on clipless. I hate riding with platforms for clip/strap pedals...


And 'beaters make great commuter pedals for road bikes. Really easy to get in and out of, relatively cheap, work great in the muck and grime (I live in Portland, I need that), and work really well with a mountain shoe (recessed cleats, so you can walk like a normal person in them).
As for the OP, I think you will find in short order that being solidly attached to the pedal makes a huge difference. Not X2 or X3 times the speed, but certainly a mile an hour or two. You feel more connected to the bike, which is really important in traffic. I dread the thought of someone slipping off a pedal in tight traffic. that said, I like clipless over straps, but that does require riding in biking shoes, rahter than street shoes. For 5 miles I might stick with regular pedals, but anything more than 5-10 miles round trip i would want my 'beaters.

Gordon


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*A troll?*



fedgrl8 said:


> I've been reading this whole disscussion, and I'm still confused. Are "clipless " pedals the ones you have to clip into and out of?


I hope this isn't a troll, 'cause I'll fee stupid for answering. 

Pedals used to have toe clips. Modern pedals replaced them and so the name "clipless" refers to the absence of toe clips. You may clip into yours, but I "step" or "click" into mine


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## DW4477 (Feb 4, 2005)

Cory said:


> [For starters, use what you like. One of the strongest riders I know rides a single-speed Gary Fisher MB with platform pedals, old-style three-speed handlebars and a basket in front, and he's done a sub-five hour century on it.


That sounds like one of those urban legend stories.


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2005)

Dave_Stohler said:


> My suggestion is to get rid of those worthless toe-strap pedals and get a decent pair of clipless pedals. If you show up at a club ride with them, they'll all know that you're a newbie. *Nobody* uses them anymore.



Some of us still Mr. Stohler. I have them on some vintage bikes, use them and still like them. 

Of course I also have bikes with Look and Campy pedals. But those old Super Records with clips and straps sure ride nice (if you ignore the tingling in your little toe where the shoe is rubbing against the clip and the strap has already cut off circulation  )


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## tube_ee (Aug 25, 2003)

Dave_Stohler said:


> My suggestion is to get rid of those worthless toe-strap pedals and get a decent pair of clipless pedals. If you show up at a club ride with them, they'll all know that you're a newbie. *Nobody* uses them anymore.


After 15 years on clipless pedals, I went back to clips-n'-straps, and I'm very happy with the change. MKS GR-9s on the touring bike, Shimano 600 Ultegras on the road bike. On the MTB, I'm committed to PowerGrips, have been for years.

But yeah, we're in the minority.

--Shannon


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

Kerry Irons said:


> I hope this isn't a troll, 'cause I'll fee stupid for answering.
> 
> Pedals used to have toe clips. Modern pedals replaced them and so the name "clipless" refers to the absence of toe clips. You may clip into yours, but I "step" or "click" into mine


Again, Kerry gets it right. A paper "clip" is just a device that pinches or grips something in place, and can be easily removed by unwedging, as opposed to a staple A toe clip is uses a wedging action to grip the foot in place. 
I lived in Tucson for 8 years. I used Time ATAC's on my fixed-gear commuter. The advantage was the small cleat that made walking easier. In fact, I used a pair of Shimano clipless sandles for many thousands of miles. 
You don't have to get expensive racing mountain bike shoes with cleats. There's plenty of casual, sporty clipless shoes out there. If you commute a lot, it's worth it to just leave a pair of work shoes at your work place, or put them in a nice backpack.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

*no, you're both wrong...*

"By the way, if you ever do decide to go to the clipless system you would double you speed maybe triple it if you practice your pedal circle more."


"Again, some questionable info.... Strap systems did not have cleats (that I'm aware of anyway). They had the strap to retain your foot, but no cleat. They were kind of dangerous, because if they were tight enough to be effective, then they were too tight to easily get out of."

first, there's no way you're going to be that much faster just because you're using clipless pedals. that's just stupid. 

second, the older "clip and strap" style pedals most certainly did use cleats on the bottom of the shoe. in the "old" days, the cleat was nailed onto the sole of the shoe, some soles were wood, some leather. in the "not so old days" they were bolted on, when the soles became plastic. 

i don't remember them being very dangerous, just uncomfortable. just like the current pedal systems, you just had to know how to use them, and not be an idiot, ie: when you're riding in a crowed area, or in town, don't tighten the straps too much, and when you're out on the road, reef on them tightly so you don't come out when sprinting for city limit signs...


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## Gabriel454 (Jun 13, 2005)

*okay after much deliberation,,,*

Well, I'm back, and in better shape than ever before. I ride a total of 30 miles a day to and from work. on the way to work, I hit speeds over 45 MPH, and loose 700 ft. of altitude, the only thing I truely hate on the way to work are the lack of braking power, and the complete loss of traction in sandy areas of the road.

On the way back home I hate my seat, (the $60.00 one I just bought.) my backpack, ($20.00 hydropack/daypack.) and lack of momentum going up extremely steep hills. I have learned to spin up hills and wish for lower gears even though I have the lowest appearently availible with an allez triple.

one of the funny things is that my gary fisher mtb is so much better going up hills even though the rolling resistance is so much higher.  

Anyway, all is great now that I run both tire liners, and thorn proof tubes. I hate constant flats like I used to get. They make me late to work!

thanks for all your input.


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## OneGear (Aug 19, 2005)

Give it more time dude, you can't be complaining about hills with a triple chainring


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## Minimalist (Apr 20, 2005)

OneGear said:


> Give it more time dude, you can't be complaining about hills with a triple chainring


Sure you can. Depends on the hills, cassette and fitness (in no particular order). I ride hills with a >20% grade. I can ride them with a 42/23 but still can't really spin them up with a 30/23.


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## OneGear (Aug 19, 2005)

Haha, what you want a Quatro Chainring?

Usually if i can't get up a hill I look at my own fitness before i worry about what chainring to use... its just me though, I have no idea what numbers are which


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## Minimalist (Apr 20, 2005)

OneGear said:


> Haha, what you want a Quatro Chainring?
> 
> Usually if i can't get up a hill I look at my own fitness before i worry about what chainring to use... its just me though, I have no idea what numbers are which


Just read the posts again, please.


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## mercierfils (May 10, 2005)

*how to keep track...*



fedgrl8 said:


> I've been reading this whole disscussion, and I'm still confused. Are "clipless " pedals the ones you have to clip into and out of?


Toe Clips = Toes (caged up in those thingys)
Clipless = No Toes (everything's under your foot)

P.S. - to Toob_ee - I LOVE Power Grips on my beater! Low-tech genius!


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## carioca (May 27, 2005)

Lifelover said:


> By the way, if you ever do decide to go to the clipless system you would double you speed maybe triple it if you practice your pedal circle more.


I commute at 13-18 mph on my mountain bike with flat pedals, and I will do the same route at 18-24 mph on my road bike with clipless. It won't double or triple your speed, what it does is help you apply power on the upstroke, which will help you gain a few mph, but not double or triple your speed.


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## Gabriel454 (Jun 13, 2005)

*whatever*



OneGear said:


> Haha, what you want a Quatro Chainring?
> 
> Usually if i can't get up a hill I look at my own fitness before i worry about what chainring to use... its just me though, I have no idea what numbers are which


No, I don't want different gears really, I have no trouble at all climbing the hills without my backpack full of work clothes, work shoes, water, tools, spare parts (of which i seem to need quite a few.) trail mix, med kit, and an extra warm layer if it gets really really cold. There are no gas stations, convience stores, or any other things for about 11 miles of my trip, then when I do get into town, there is only safeway, chevron, and jack in the box. None of which are open. no bike shops, NADA!

unless of course I'm desperate enough to walk into a really really rowdy country western bar that seems to openly defy the 2:00AM closing time.

you see, I work night shift, and head back up the mountain in the quiet early morning hours around 3:30 AM. So there is nowhere for me to go if I have an emergency. I even carry extra spokes, extra cables, and an extra rear derailer that I put together from parts of 2 old derailers just in case. not to mention extra brake pads. (I can live without everything else!)

I have been thinking seriously about getting a yak trailer, BUT, they don't appearently make em with good road tires.


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## OneGear (Aug 19, 2005)

You are one tough son of a gun, Respect.

Must be tough riding home at 3am after a long shift. Stay safe man.


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## Gabriel454 (Jun 13, 2005)

thanks, got any ideas? for better/inxepencive modes of spare parts and clothing transfer?

Maybe there are some actually cheap panniers available somehwere?


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## PbOkole (Feb 10, 2004)

*Cleats and straps...*



bmateo said:


> Wow, I'd have to disagree. Let's say he's only going 8 mph with flat pedals. Now, he's going to be doing 24 mph??? Doubt it.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, some questionable info.... Strap systems did not have cleats (that I'm aware of anyway). They had the strap to retain your foot, but no cleat. They were kind of dangerous, because if they were tight enough to be effective, then they were too tight to easily get out of.



Toe clip and strap systems did indeed have cleats. The cleat was adjusted so that ball of your foot was over the pedal spindle or wherever comfortable and set at the proper angle for your feet/knees. It was then either nailed into the sole or held in place by bolts. Usually we would go for a ride without the cleat so that the pedal would make a mark on the sole of the shoe. We would then bolt or nail the cleat along this line on the sole. Low tech but it worked.

Pedals today are called "clipless" because they lack toe clips or "cages" as some call them today. It has nothing to do with the cleat or straps.


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