# Is Super Record really worth it???



## Chris Keller (May 19, 2008)

Hi All,

I just got an awesome Look 595 Ultra frameset and I'm wanting to build it up with Campag components. I am very familiar with Record since I have it on my custom ti rig ( a Gangl--from Denver, CO). I absolutely love it but I'm wondering if I should make the leap to get Super Record...It's just outrageously expensive...Colorado Cyclist is saying it will be $3,500 for an 8-piece group. 

I got to see it in person...just magnificent but is it really worth it and that much better than 09 Record??

I'm just looking for your opinions.

Thanks in advance.

Chris Keller


----------



## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

Chris Keller said:


> I got to see it in person...just magnificent but is it really worth it and that much better than 09 Record??


no...

//but you want it so get it anyway.


----------



## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

Get it! and report back!


----------



## wuggabugga (Oct 3, 2005)

I'd hold off and wait to let the prices settle a bit. I can't see Super Record holding the price levels some shops are asking. When it does, I'm going to pull the trigger. I can't help it, I have a Campagnolo addition even thought my Record Ultra is only two years old!


----------



## Guest (Oct 6, 2008)

My guess is no matter how great it looks if you could ride without seeing which you group you had on, you wouldn't know if it was Record or Super Record.


----------



## ti-triodes (Aug 14, 2006)

I'd stick with Chorus unless I was racing, but that's not the point of this thread, is it?  :thumbsup:


----------



## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Chorus is even good enough to race on unless you are doing a lot of climbing. The only place that Super Record will make any difference is in the weight category and the wallet category. Me, I'm going to wait years until I move to 11 speed, but when I do it will probably be Super Record and at a much lower price point. Heck, I bought my first Record 10 groupo a little less than 2 years ago for just a smidge over $1,000 from 11speed.com. Since then, I have bought 4 more Record 10 groupos and not one of them cost more than $1,500.

$3,500 for a Super Record groupo, I don't think so.


----------



## T-Dog (Mar 21, 2008)

Yes it is worth it and if you dont get it you will always wish you had. Lifes short enjoy it!


----------



## onrhodes (Feb 19, 2004)

Only you can answer that question. If $3500 for part of a "toy" worth it, then do it.
If you want 11 speed, then Chorus is the way to go if you ask me. If you don't care about the extra cog, then just buy Centaur.
My 2 cents.
The biggest thing you need to define is what I would tell any child. Is it a "Want" or a "Need".


----------



## Getoutandride (Sep 1, 2008)

ive said this in a simliar thread....

In my opinion 11 speed simply isnt necessary, infact i dont believe ANY company can make an 11 speed gruppo until and only until their 10 speed gruppo is absolutely perfect, and there isnt anything that company can do to make their system any better whatsoever! then i believe they earn the right to bring in another speed.

even if they managed all that, i still wouldnt buy into an obviously overpriced "hype of the moment marketed" product that will soon be old news. and afterall, who buys a 4k groupset in its first year? we all know come next season super record will most likely have some modifications to it and be back down to semi respectable prices


----------



## Getoutandride (Sep 1, 2008)

another excellent answer, but i have to say it made me laugh, who actually NEEDS record? other than top of the line athletes? im quite happy with chorus?


----------



## Keeping up with Junior (Feb 27, 2003)

*Racing*



ti-triodes said:


> I'd stick with Chorus unless I was racing, but that's not the point of this thread, is it?  :thumbsup:


Yeah, I would say go with Chorus unless you are racing in which case I would give serious consideration to Centaur as it is a bit cheaper to replace after you crash and you wont be as upset.


----------



## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

But life can be all so long when you are broke and always worrying about paying the bills. If you have the money, and think $3,500 for a groupo isn't too big a deal, then go for it. If you have to put it on credit, forgetaboutit.

Monthly bills make life miserable, especially if you are in a bind.


----------



## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Chris Keller said:


> Colorado Cyclist is saying it will be $3,500 for an 8-piece group.



Also, Colorado Cyclist is one of the most overpricing store/catalogs out there. I haven't looked-but you probably could save a great deal of money by shopping just about any place else.


----------



## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

It is definitely a WANT and not a NEED. There are actually quite few NEEDS in life. Obviously, food, water, shelter, reasonable clothing, reasonable transportation, and anything else you need to earn a living. Otherwise, every thing else is a want. The "reasonable" part can be a little tough.


----------



## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

worth it is a relative question..... are YOU worth(y of) it???


----------



## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*price gouging....*

Of course SR is not worth $350-400 more than Record, but really good prices for SR and Record are more like $2100 and $1750. Chorus is the real bargain at $1300 or less.

You get very little functional improvement with SR. The biggest difference is the CULT bearings in the BB. Most of the other differences are trivial weight reductions.

The six Ti cogs on the SR cassette will last about half as long as Chrous steel cogs. I'm buying a Record group with a Chorus cassette and expecting to pay no more than $1650 for it.

All US dealers are either price gouging early adopters or being forced by the US importer to charge MSRP. It's not clear at this point which is the case. Either way, no US seller is getting any of my money.

You can buy 2009 Campy products much cheaper from Europe, but supplies are still very limited. Supplies will improve in the next month.

The cheapest prices I've seen are at www.comobike.it, but they have no stock. Other possible sources are www.bike24.com and www.totalcycling.com.


----------



## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

Chris Keller said:


> Thanks for all of your inputs! I just retired from the military after 24 years, 1 month and 11 days...and I am about to start a new job. I am anxious to build up my new 07 Look 595 Ultra and I was thinking of going with Record 11-spd with a Chorus steel cassette. I was just wondering what all of you thought about SR. Obviously I won't be going through Colorado Cyclist even though they are right down the street. I will shop around for a better deal. I would still like to hear more inputs though. Thanks again!!
> 
> Chris


What's another $400? Might as well do it up right so you don't have "upgradeitis" down the road. Not many people ever regret getting "the best."


----------



## Chris Keller (May 19, 2008)

Thanks for all of your inputs! I just retired from the military after 24 years, 1 month and 11 days...and I am about to start a new job. I am anxious to build up my new 07 Look 595 Ultra and I was thinking of going with Record 11-spd with a Chorus steel cassette. I was just wondering what all of you thought about SR. Obviously I won't be going through Colorado Cyclist even though they are right down the street. I will shop around for a better deal. I would still like to hear more inputs though. Thanks again!!

Chris


----------



## vboy19 (Mar 24, 2008)

I don't know if i'm smoking something or just plain crazy. www.totalcycling.com doesn't have SR as a gruppo, but if you add the parts up individually it totals 2144. And I was looking at the flat international shipping rates which total $30. If I had the money right now i would just order it from them, its almost 1,000 bucks cheaper then Competitive Cyclist?


----------



## ti-triodes (Aug 14, 2006)

Keeping up with Junior said:


> Yeah, I would say go with Chorus unless you are racing in which case I would give serious consideration to Centaur as it is a bit cheaper to replace after you crash and you wont be as upset.



Plus you can plug in parts from any other 10 speed group.


----------



## Sherpa23 (Nov 5, 2001)

Keeping up with Junior said:


> Yeah, I would say go with Chorus unless you are racing in which case I would give serious consideration to Centaur as it is a bit cheaper to replace after you crash and you wont be as upset.



Ding-Ding-Ding!!

We have a winner. Although it's not better to use Centaur because of the crashes but rather because the bike is going to get some scratches, etc. from the wear and tear of racing and there is pretty much no tangible benefit to Record (or Super Record) over Centaur that I can feel.

The Super Record is to look nice, Centaur and Chorus work just as well. So if you're using it for a purpose, you're no better off with Record or Super Record.


----------



## de.abeja (Aug 27, 2006)

Be patient OP, the price will be coming down from the stratosphere in a few more months when production has actually caught up. Right now you are paying early-adopter/ gotta-have-it premium on all the '09 stuff.


----------



## TiDreaming (Jul 20, 2007)

T-Dog said:


> Yes it is worth it and if you dont get it you will always wish you had. Lifes short enjoy it!


Have to agree +1


----------



## raymonda (Jan 31, 2007)

Then if I was racing, I would ride Centuar or Ultegra. Never want to waste good expensive components going down in a crash.


----------



## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Isn't that the catch 22 with all this. The lighter components are what you want for racing, especially in a race that involves a lot of climbing. However, that is also where you are more likely to wreck your bike. What a conundrum.


----------



## cyclust (Sep 8, 2004)

It's like this: It's 5% better than Record, but it's twice the money. The same could be said for Shimano Ultegra vs Dura Ace. Is it worth it? From a practical standpoint, of course not. Is a $1000 suit 5 times better than a $200 suit? No. But many people have the desire, the money, or both to have the best. Cost be damned. Why are they charging $3500 for the super record groups? Cause there will be people who will be willing to pony up. You pays yer money and you makes yer choices.


----------



## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*fortunately..*



cyclust said:


> It's like this: It's 5% better than Record, but it's twice the money. The same could be said for Shimano Ultegra vs Dura Ace. Is it worth it? From a practical standpoint, of course not. Is a $1000 suit 5 times better than a $200 suit? No. But many people have the desire, the money, or both to have the best. Cost be damned. Why are they charging $3500 for the super record groups? Cause there will be people who will be willing to pony up. You pays yer money and you makes yer choices.



SR is only about $400 more than Record and can be had for $2100. I still chose '09 Record. Those CULT ceramic BB bearings aren't that much better than hybrid ceramic.


----------



## haydos (Sep 17, 2007)

I have Record 11 on my BMC Pro Machine - we are only talking about 50 grams difference between the two - You can easily make them the same weight by bolt tuning the steel bolts for ti or alumium

Functionally the are the same - the full ceramic BBkt on the SR is cool - but in reality there is no difference when you actually ride it. 
The only reason to buy SR is to say that you have SR and you can afford it. If you have to ask...you cant.

The one thing that really scares me is when it comes time to replace the bearings in the bbkt when they wear out ... how much of my arm do I have to cut off! Same with the Cassette.

I'm actually thinking of selling my Record 11 and replacing it with Sram Red (and pocketing the difference) Much cheaper to replace parts, lighter and can use some shimano bits.

Anyway - you can't go wrong with any of these groups, it really comes down to how much coffee shop bling you want to dish out.

Take a look at mine on the BMC part of the forum.

Good luck!


----------



## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*mix and match...*

A wise person also knows that you don't have to buy the whole groupo. Some of the parts have such small graphics that you have to get real close just to read the name. The cranks are a prime example.

I chose Record 11 for most of the parts, but bought Chorus cassettes with all steel cogs that are much cheaper and last nearly twice as long. I really should have bought Chorus cranks too. My mostly Record groups only cost about $1650.

When it comes time for bearing replacement, you can choose from a number of brands, other than Campy. The CULT bearings are not full ceramic. The races are a proprietary Cronitec alloy that works with the ceramic balls to create a low friction system requiring only oil for the lubricant. It sounds great, but you don't see anybody claiming any claimed wattage savings.


----------



## tyro (May 15, 2005)

C-40 said:


> You can buy 2009 Campy products much cheaper from Europe, but supplies are still very limited. Supplies will improve in the next month.
> 
> The cheapest prices I've seen are at www.comobike.it, but they have no stock. Other possible sources are www.bike24.com and www.totalcycling.com.


Have you ordered anything from these guys, specifically como?

I read on their website and you must cover the customs and VAT, etc... I've ordered from Probikekit and it was a smooth transaction. I did a little research and saw that VAT is around 20%. Anyone have any experience with this?


----------



## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

Yeah, I'd say get 09 Centaur shifters, keep everything else the same (that's what I just did!!). Shifting is incredible, if it weren't for 11 speed, they would have called it RECORD anyway. Also much cheaper to order over the pond. totalcycling is who I go with, never had a problem with them.


----------



## Chris Keller (May 19, 2008)

Well, I just bought a Super Record Group (with Chorus cassette) from Comobike.com. I wasn't going to get SR but when I found I could get it so inexpensively...I had too!

I saved more than $1400 vs. buying it locally...I really like to give my business to our local bike shops but I can't pass up savings like that for the best group out there. I'll get the bars, stem and seat from my LBS and have them build it up. 

It will still be several months before I get all the parts together...it should be a AWESOME RIDE!!

Thanks for all of your inputs...I'll write up a ride report when she finally comes together and I get some miles on her.

Chris


----------



## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Those prices are much more reasonable. I could afford to do a 2 or 3 bike changeover in a year or two and not have to get a 2nd mortgage on the house. I'm still going to wait until I wear something out on my Record 10 speed groupos before swallowing that pill.


----------



## Jbartmc (Sep 14, 2007)

*cbike.com*

I have the Super Record 11 on my bike, and got it from cbike.com for $2549.00. It lists for $2,999, but they often have sales of 15% off. It is the best price I have seen. By the way, I have three rides on it, and it is fantastic and looks great.


----------



## greybicycle (Nov 20, 2008)

Chris Keller said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I just got an awesome Look 595 Ultra frameset and I'm wanting to build it up with Campag components. I am very familiar with Record since I have it on my custom ti rig ( a Gangl--from Denver, CO). I absolutely love it but I'm wondering if I should make the leap to get Super Record...It's just outrageously expensive...Colorado Cyclist is saying it will be $3,500 for an 8-piece group.
> 
> ...


here you go, your dream build, my latest bike...
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=154487


----------



## pavemnt (Oct 19, 2002)

*Maestro UK*

Mike Perry has SR 11 for 1047 pounds. All told, it was $1860 (today; exch rate about $1.54/pound) for 8 pc group, and the "$300" chain tool. That included shipping to US, insurance, and 1% for using a credit card. I believe the group shouldn't be subject to customs duty, but we'll see. I don't think anyone can or will beat that. Just e-mail his shop, and he'll get right back to you. He has everything on hand except cups and FD. Record and Chorus 11 also available.


----------



## M__E (Apr 21, 2006)

*huh...?!?!?*



fabsroman said:


> Chorus is even good enough to race on >>>>unless you are doing a lot of climbing<<<<.


you are implying what by this? or the reason you have reached that conclusion is?


----------



## greybicycle (Nov 20, 2008)

*he must be misaken...*

or else considering that chorus means single speeed in italian:aureola:


----------



## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

If you are doing a lot of climbing in a race, weight DOES matter, especially for a small guy that doesn't generate a ton of watts. Aerodynamics trumps weight almost all the time, except when the road tilts upward, and I don't mean a little 100 to 200 foot climb at 6% or 8%.

Yes, Chorus is just slightly heavier than Record, and Record is just slightly heavier than Super Record, and Eurus wheels are just slightly heaver than Shamal wheels, and a Colnago C50 is just slightly heavier than a Colnago Extreme C. Add it all up and you are probably talking a pound or more. Just the difference between my C50 and Cristallo is 250 grams. When you lose a place on the final climb or the last sprint by a wheel length and you gave it all you had, you can thank the extra weight for that lost place.

Training matters the most, but weight does matter. If somebody can afford to buy a lighter bike without cutting into training time, I say go for it, because it does matter. Now, if you have to work extra hours to afford that lighter bike and that will cut into training time, I suggest sticking with the current bike.


----------



## M__E (Apr 21, 2006)

fabsroman said:


> If you are doing a lot of climbing in a race, weight DOES matter..


ah ok I got u, I know all about weight ect, but didnt make the connection between when you were refering to chorus and climbing...thanks for clearing that up..I thought you originally meant maybe because it shifted better under load or something like that.


----------



## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Nah, they all shift the same to me once you get to the Chorus level. Veloce is a little choppy in that regard. Now, I have no idea howthe 2009 stuff shifts because I haven't ridden any of it, and probably will not for quite a while. By the time I wear out all of my 10 speed chains and cassettes, they will have probably come out with 12 speed and/or electronic shifting by then.


----------



## M__E (Apr 21, 2006)

fabsroman said:


> ...By the time I wear out all of my 10 speed chains and cassettes, they will have probably come out with 12 speed and/or electronic shifting by then...


yeah where is the nbr of spd going to end! 15spd?
I mean cars for instance go to 7 (some do) but you dont see them trying to out do each other tring to get 8 and 9 spd gear boxes..its just gone crazy the last few years with bike drivetrains..


----------



## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Yep, I did the majority of my riding from 1984 to 2006 on a 6 speed (i.e., 12 speeds total). When I decided to buy a new bike and started looking into groupos, I was surprised to see that they had 10 cogs on cassettes now. Yes, a couple more cogs on a 6 would have been great, and a 10 comes somewhat in handy on an 11-25, but for the most part I can hardly feel a difference on shifts when I am in the big ring on the flats with a semi-straight block 11-21, or 11-23 on a 10 speed drivetrain.

The additional gears are just another marketing point to get people to buy new equipment. For a small percentage of cyclists out there, they might need 11 speed over 10 speed, but the majority certainly doesn't.


----------



## em3 (Dec 25, 2005)

*VAT/Customs fees for US delivery from Europe...??*

Am I correct that those of you who have ordered from Meastro, comobike, totalcycling etc have not been subject to VAT or other customs fees for delivery to US? Any insight will be appreciated....I am about to pull the trigger n an 11 speed group and want to make sure of addtl costs I am not calculating in to my budget.

Thanks,
EM3


----------



## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I dealt with the US Customs Duty issue in 2007 on 2 Camoy Record groupos from 11speed.com. Essentially, the Customs regulations provide for no duty on most bike components, which are usually all the components in a groupo. Now, wheels and bike frames are a different matter. Also, if you are located in the US, VAT does not apply to you either. If you were shipping to a European address, the European vendor would collect the 18% VAT. However, when the European vendor sends the goods overseas, they do not charge for VAT. VAT is kind of like Sales Tax in the US between states. Hope this helps.

Now, with all that said, I had to give the UPS driver a $300 check for customs fees even though they had it wrong. I then went and tried to resolve it that day with a UPS Customer Service Rep and she wasn't at all helpful, so I put a stop payment on the check. After several weeks, I started to receive an invoice from UPS for the duty fee, plus interest and a cancelled check fee. It was a PITA, but I eventually worked it out with them where they applied to US Customs for an adjustment (i.e., they were my US Customs broker in the transaction in the first place), US Customs issued the adjustment, and UPS resolved my account. For $300, it was worth the headache.

If you do a search for my screen name and UPS Customs you should find the threads detailing my history with that transaction. The sad thing is that 11speed.com had cited next to each part description in the groupo's invoice the specific US Customs regulation paragraph that made them duty free, but nobody took the time to look at it, and applied duty to the entire groupo because a "groupo" was not listed in the customs manual.


----------



## em3 (Dec 25, 2005)

fabsroman, thanks for the informative reply. So, just to be clear if its a gruppo only , the parts will not be subject to customs fees? I will look up the posts you mentioned as well.Thanks again!





fabsroman said:


> I dealt with the US Customs Duty issue in 2007 on 2 Camoy Record groupos from 11speed.com. Essentially, the Customs regulations provide for no duty on most bike components, which are usually all the components in a groupo. Now, wheels and bike frames are a different matter. Also, if you are located in the US, VAT does not apply to you either. If you were shipping to a European address, the European vendor would collect the 18% VAT. However, when the European vendor sends the goods overseas, they do not charge for VAT. VAT is kind of like Sales Tax in the US between states. Hope this helps.
> 
> Now, with all that said, I had to give the UPS driver a $300 check for customs fees even though they had it wrong. I then went and tried to resolve it that day with a UPS Customer Service Rep and she wasn't at all helpful, so I put a stop payment on the check. After several weeks, I started to receive an invoice from UPS for the duty fee, plus interest and a cancelled check fee. It was a PITA, but I eventually worked it out with them where they applied to US Customs for an adjustment (i.e., they were my US Customs broker in the transaction in the first place), US Customs issued the adjustment, and UPS resolved my account. For $300, it was worth the headache.
> 
> If you do a search for my screen name and UPS Customs you should find the threads detailing my history with that transaction. The sad thing is that 11speed.com had cited next to each part description in the groupo's invoice the specific US Customs regulation paragraph that made them duty free, but nobody took the time to look at it, and applied duty to the entire groupo because a "groupo" was not listed in the customs manual.


----------



## rward325 (Sep 22, 2008)

I am in the process of building up 2 bikes. One with a full Chorus group and the other with Super record. I got to ride the Chorus bike today and I was impressed with the mechanics. Shifts were smooth not clunky at all whether under load or not. FD performed great going between chain rings from almost any where on the rear cassette, yes I tried cross chaining it to see if it would drop the chain. It didn't drop the chain, it didn't really like it but it didn't drop. The shifters fit my hands better than my Utltegra ever did. I love the hand position on the Ergo shifters. The bike with SR will be ready right after the New Year and then I can really give a comparison of the 2. I paid 1099.00 for my Chorus group and 2300.00 for my Super Record, We'll have to see if the 1200.00 dollar difference is really worth it. I was going to do this anyway so I am not upset about the money but I would like to see the side by side comparison.


----------



## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

A groupo is not subject to US Customs fees. Now, that doesn't mean the US Customs will get it right, it just means you should not be subject to them. Kind of like being charged with a crime you didn't commit. It just means the officer screwed up.


----------



## BLUE BOY (May 19, 2005)

fabsroman said:


> When you lose a place on the final climb or the last sprint by a wheel length and you gave it all you had, you can thank the extra weight for that lost place.


 Well that just means that your compettitor took a pee and a crap before the race and
you didn't. :lol:


----------



## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I always make sure I pee and pooh before the start of a race. Even make sure I empty my water bottles before the end of the race, usually by drinking all the fluid. Better to have it in me than on a bottle. So, the lighter parts are the only way to gain an advantage after taking that pee and pooh.


----------



## QQUIKM3 (Apr 20, 2008)

*Bingo!*



Keeping up with Junior said:


> Yeah, I would say go with Chorus unless you are racing in which case I would give serious consideration to Centaur as it is a bit cheaper to replace after you crash and you wont be as upset.


Great answer. I never understood these idiots racing on Record and top end frames that aren't pros getting them for free. When I raced it was a crappy Cannondale with Athena, and my fun non-race bike was a C50 with Record.


----------



## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

About the only thing I care about cost wise for racing is the frame. I think of everything else on the bike as replaceable, except for the frame. To me, the frame is the heart and soul of the bike. The components wear out and need to be replaced eventually anyway.


----------



## BLUE BOY (May 19, 2005)

This Super Record question is really simple to answer. It depends on the need of one's ego. Does your ego require it or not? As humans, we can justify just about anything in our own minds. It's an ego gruppo and that's pretty much it. 
You show me someone who says they bought SR because of it's "performance" and 
"weight" difference, and I'll show you someone who has made that mental justification
simply because their ego requires it. 
The simple reality is that there is "no" performance difference and insignificant weight
difference, in real world applications, between SR and Record or Chorus.


----------



## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

Amen!!!!!


----------



## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Let's admit that less weight does provide a performance bonus for climbing. If that wasn't the case, we would all be riding steel frames and riding Veloce or Mirage and have some bullet proof 1,800 gram wheels, for a bike weighing 25 pounds. Weight does matter.

With that said, a lighter bike will not simply propel you up a mountain. You still need to push the pedals.

Is Super Record worth it? Well, it depends on how much funds you have. If the difference in cost between Record and Super Record is a significant amount of your funds budgeted to cycling, then it probably isn't worth it. If you have tons and tons of money, then Super Record is probably worth it. If you have to stretch, or work a second job to buy Super Record in lieu of Record, then it probably isn't worth it. A lot of purchases depend on personal circumstances. If you have to go into debt to get Super Record, then I would say it isn't worth it. However, I have seen a lot of people with a ton of debt, and it doesn't seem to bother them.

This is such a personal and highly subjedtive question that there is no way any of us can answer it for anybody else.


----------



## BLUE BOY (May 19, 2005)

fabsroman said:


> Let's admit that less weight does provide a performance bonus for climbing. If that wasn't the case, we would all be riding steel frames and riding Veloce or Mirage and have some bullet proof 1,800 gram wheels, for a bike weighing 25 pounds. Weight does matter.


 Yes fabsroman, the kind of weight difference your talking about does make a difference,
but if you will read what I said just alittle more carefully you should see that what I am saying is different. Example: two riders have, lets say, Colnago C-50s and these C-50s
have identical wheels, handle bars, etc. But Wait! One of those C-50s has Super Record!
The other C-50 just has the "lowly" Record groupo. Now I just can't see where that's going to make a rats arse worth of difference weight wise in ANY situation. Does that clear it up for you sir?


----------



## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

And the chances of two riders having exactly the same frames, wheels, bars, etc. in a race, with the only difference being Record versus Super Record groupos, is what. One in a million.

For the most part, having Record instead of Super Record will not matter that much, unless you happen to lose at the line by two or three inches. Then it might have mattered.

Also, let's not forget that this is all cumulative. While the difference between Record and Super Record isn't that much, and the difference between Chorus and Record isn't that much, as you apply this philosophy throughout the frame and parts ranges, the additional weight to a bike will matter. Does 100 grams between 2 wheelsets really matter? How about 50 grams between bars. How about 100 grams between saddles? How about 100 grams between frames. Pretty soon, you are over a pound in weight difference.

As I stated earlier, it all comes down to pocket book and infatuation with Super Record. When I go to 11 speed, it will be with Super Record, but I love my bikes. If we were talking about my daily driver car, it would be Mirage all the way, with a crappy steel frame.


----------



## BLUE BOY (May 19, 2005)

fabsroman said:


> it all comes down to pocket book and infatuation with Super Record. When I go to 11 speed, it will be with Super Record, but I love my bikes. If we were talking about my daily driver car, it would be Mirage all the way, with a crappy steel frame.



fabsroman............Happy New Year to you and yours.  

Sometimes it's fun to stir the pot a bit. Takecare.


----------



## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Happy New Year to you and yours too, Blue Boy.

I stir the pot so often that I suffer from tennis elbow and carpal tunnel syndrome. LOL


----------



## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

Come on. Its a ridiculous question.

Of course Super Record is essential and, in fact, its mandatory. How else can the bike move without Super Record?

I love spending other peoples' money


----------



## BunnV (Sep 7, 2005)

M__E said:


> yeah where is the nbr of spd going to end! 15spd?
> I mean cars for instance go to 7 (some do) but you dont see them trying to out do each other tring to get 8 and 9 spd gear boxes...


Actually I did see exactly that...
http://www.autospies.com/news/Mercedes-will-outdo-Lexus-8-speed-auto-with-new-dual-clutch-35657/


----------



## Americano (Dec 20, 2001)

*No customs or VAT for me*



em3 said:


> Am I correct that those of you who have ordered from Meastro, comobike, totalcycling etc have not been subject to VAT or other customs fees for delivery to US? Any insight will be appreciated....I am about to pull the trigger n an 11 speed group and want to make sure of addtl costs I am not calculating in to my budget.
> 
> Thanks,
> EM3


I just got a $2400 order from comobike.com and didn't have to pay customs or VAT. On top of that I saved about $1000 over buying the equivalent pieces here in the US.


----------



## Fuhgetaboudit (Nov 3, 2004)

*Super Record much Cheaper now*

Prices have really fallen from $3,500 retail to about $2,000 to $2,200 when on sale now for the Super Record. Is is worth it...? Well for many I would still say to wait and let it drop some more. Personally, I built a Pinarello Team Prine just two months before the new Super Record came out. Would I want it..... Hell yeah! However, I would have to invest in an entire Groupo now at $2,000 on catch a sale, and then sell off my slightly used 2008 Ultra Record on ebay. In the end I would envision I would make some money back, but the overall investment would cost me probably an $800 difference.

Yeah, it gets me excited thinking about it and the price difference is getting less and less. I would suspect by mid to late summer the cost should drop another $400 and then perhaps I will pop for it. Most everyone I have talked to say it is really that good, and these are racers and shop people that sponsor teams and know the ins and outs of the product. I'm told the hoods alone and the feel are really great! That, and being able to dump two and three gears at a time on the shift.


----------



## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

You can already dump 2 to 3 gears on a shift if you are using Ultra Record. Heck, you can go from the largest cog to the smallest cog with one simple push of the lever.

The other thing you need to think about when waiting for the price to drop is that the demand for your 2008 10 speed stuff will also drop because more and more people will just be able to afford a new 11 speed groupo.

My plan is this. When I wear out a 10 speed groupo or break a part on it, I will replace it with 11 speed Super Record and use the left over 10 speed parts for the other 4 groupos I have. That should allow things to last quite a while for the rest of the groupos. However, as those break I will upgrade them too. By the time I finish upgrading all my bikes, Campy will have come out with 12 speed and electrnic shifting, and possibly electric braking. LOL


----------



## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*behind the times...*

The price for SR went below $1600 a few months ago when the exchange rate with the pound was around 1.36. It's not much higher right now. The range for Chorus to SR is $1000-$1700.

You just have to know where to buy. Shiny Bikes, Ribble.

You can upgrade a Campy 10 bike to 11 speed for about $400.


----------



## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

C-40,

If I wanted to upgrade a Campy 10 groupo to 11 speed, what would I need? I would guess brifters, front and rear shifter, and cassette. Would that be it, or do I need a new crank too?


----------



## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

C40,

the Record 10 is not compatible with SR11, I had to replace shifters,F&RD cassette,chains & crank as well the only thing remain untouch is brakesets. Please explain how did you come with $400 for the upgrade.


----------



## Fuhgetaboudit (Nov 3, 2004)

*$400 for the Whole Enchilada ??*

C-40:

I'd be very interested to know just how to convert my new, 2008 Ultra Record into the 2009 Super Record for only $400 !! Yessireee!

I asked this very question to my shop, thinking I could just get the new shifters/hoods along with a front and rear derailleur and sprocket. Then again, my crank gears are the thicker than the new 11-spd so I would presumably need thinner crank gears to hold the thinner chain. So all in all my shop said, "Nope... Nada... ain't gonna happen that way" Gotta go the whole enchilada here with the new stuff. They are not trying to sell me the new stuff as they know I'm gonna hit ebay or other bargain suppliers.

So C-40...... what is the secret that I am missing to upgrade for only 4 frogpelts??


----------



## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*Facts...*

I said 11 speed for about $400, not SR 11 speed. The Chorus, Record and SR shifters are mechanically identical. SR shifters have those silly cutouts in the brake lever and one Ti part to drop the weight about 10 grams for a whole lot more money than Chorus. I've bought Chorus shifters for $210 from Ribble, a Chorus chain for $35 and a cassette for $110. That's a total of $355. The SR cassette has a ridiculous price and will last half as long as Chorus. 

I've posted other threads on the simple modification to make the 10 speed RD work perfectly with 11 speed. 

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=160601

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=154068&highlight=inside+2009+ergopower

My first 11 speed setup used an '08 Chorus 10 speed 50/34 crank, an '08 Chorus FD, 11 speed shifters and the 11 speed RD. I later proved that the 10 speed RD worked great with the minor mod. I had no shifting issues at all with this setup.


----------



## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*not so...*



zamboni said:


> C40,
> 
> the Record 10 is not compatible with SR11, I had to replace shifters,F&RD cassette,chains & crank as well the only thing remain untouch is brakesets. Please explain how did you come with $400 for the upgrade.


All you really needed was the shifters, chain and cassette. I've used Campy 10 FD and crank with no problem. The RD requires a minor modification. $400 was for a Chorus 11 upgrade.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=160601


----------



## terrain (Apr 19, 2009)

To the OP's question about worth - I'd say sure, why not, probably, maybe... In any event My SR (new bike build) is supposed to be complete end of this week. Will chime in post a few miles on SR.


----------

