# Any better options than Chris King & Belgium + Wheels



## cnardone (Jun 28, 2014)

I bought a new bike a month ago. Lynskey R255. I am thinking of getting new wheel this coming spring and need to plan (save) for them. I am open to suggestions.

The bike has a Navy Chris King headset and I was thinking Navy Chris King hubs to match. Looking at the Chris King site this wheel looked like a real possibility: *ALLOY RIDE - $1,000** HED* Belgium Plus Alloy Clincher Wide / Hubset R45 28/28Then I started thinking, “1K for wheels. That is a good amount of $$. Should I be looking at something else? Do I need to spend that much?” So…. 

I’d like to buy wheels that won’t require much maintenance and last a good long time if possible. Reading about the Belgium’s allowing for slightly lower pressure for more comfort also sounds great. After that, I am not really sure what to expect from a new set of wheels. Spending 1K for blue hubs and slightly lower tire pressure seems excessive. But so was getting the Lynskey. I am certainly open to getting the same performance / reliability for a less (if possible) and I understand that would mean the hubs would not match the Chris King headset.

Wrong wth my current set: I am not sure anything is really wrong with my current wheels. They are Mavic Aksium Ones. 20 spokes front and back 1850 grams. I am 200lbs. Everything I’ve read tells me that I am too heavy for 20 spoke wheels. I’ve put 150 miles on the wheel and I can see slight wobble on the front wheel when I spin it and look closely at the brake pads. I can’t see the wobble while riding. So maybe 1 or 2 mm (??) I have not measured. So I am guessing they are not going to be low maintenance long term. I also hate the yellow label on the hubs. 

Roads: are pretty good. Some are better than others of course, but even the bad ones are more bumpy with cracks than full of huge pot holes. There are a few of those but few and fair between.

I am not powerful or smooth. Not sure where that leaves me. On the slow side for sure.

Current Tires 25 Vittoria Zaffiro. Running at 90/105 PSI

I am riding about 65 - 70 miles a week (I ride 3 times a week). We’ll see as it gets colder. This is purely for enjoyment and physical exercise.

Custom vs hand built: I prefer to give my $$ to a smaller builder that does good work, but I am not dead set either way. I want a good set of wheels.

Easily repairable: yes please

Running Ultegra 6800 so I need 11sp. Rim breaks. Rear hub 130mm (I believe)

Aero or Light: I climb about 100 ft per mile. So I spend a good amount of time climbing. So probably lighter more than aero but neither is a huge concern if I have a quality set that is trouble free.

Clichers.

Aluminum or Carbon: Don’t really care. See aero or light. but spending this much should I be looking Carbon?

Ball Bearings: don’t specifically care.

I'd be open to building my own if it made sense. Looking at the Chris King wheels above, it seems like I could buy the complete wheel cheaper than I could build it.

Thanks for any feedback and ideas.

cmn


----------



## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

@200#, I'd get ask if you could get a 3x rear...seeing as CK apparently doesn't offer a 32-spoke build (which is bizarre)

They build into a nice set of hoops, CK's pricing is very competitive. For the $$$$, you'll have a hard time finding another builder to hook you up with a similar build, and you'll be hard pressed to find nicer parts in an alloy build. My set of 28xCX-Ray R45s/Belgium+ ran up a $1300 bill shipped. @$1K you won't find a carbon wheelset with much of a warranty to speak of.


----------



## Special Eyes (Feb 2, 2011)

Chris' wheelsets are well thought out and masterfully built. Just do it. You will never regret it. It's a decent price for custom alloy wheels. Double the cost (or more) for the carbon equivalents.


----------



## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

At The Cycling House you can get a set of HED Ardennes CL+ for less than $750 You need to ask for their best deal. Rated to 250 pounds. HED's Sonic hubs are not CK's, but not junk either.

You at least have to try tubeless when you get the + rims. It makes for a comfy ride without sacrificing performance.


----------



## cnardone (Jun 28, 2014)

so what would be the practical discernable difference between the King wheels vs the Ardennes? reliability? how long they last? something else?

I know so little I am not even sure what to expect between different wheels.

cmn


----------



## 4slomo (Feb 11, 2008)

I am within a few pounds of your weight, and have built several wheel sets using Belgium + rims. Those customers have raved about how nicely their wheels ride. It takes a lot of building effort to get all of the performance possible out of those rims, something that only a custom builder is likely to do. The R45 hubs are nice, but you could also do well with some White Industries hubs or other hubs depending on your requirements.



cnardone said:


> so what would be the practical discernable difference between the King wheels vs the Ardennes? reliability? how long they last? something else?
> 
> I know so little I am not even sure what to expect between different wheels.
> 
> cmn


----------



## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

4slomo said:


> It takes a lot of building effort to get all of the performance possible out of those rims, something that only a custom builder is likely to do.


Belgiums, and if you could expound on this I'd love to comprehend why.

Thanks in advance...


----------



## 4slomo (Feb 11, 2008)

It's been purely experiential, perhaps due to their stiffness to weight ratio? These rims are aluminum alloy including several percent scandium, and behave slightly differently than other alloy or carbon rims. They do seem to have a lot of potential, and respond nicely to good wheel building techniques. I have been impressed with the results I've gotten. 

My next personal wheel set will use either Belgium + rims, or ENVE rims, I haven't decided yet.



robt57 said:


> Belgiums, and if you could expound on this I'd love to comprehend why.
> 
> Thanks in advance...


----------



## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

4slomo said:


> It's been purely experiential, perhaps due to their stiffness to weight ratio? These rims are aluminum alloy including several percent scandium, and behave slightly differently than other alloy or carbon rims. They do seem to have a lot of potential, and respond nicely to good wheel building techniques. I have been impressed with the results I've gotten.
> 
> My next personal wheel set will use either Belgium + rims, or ENVE rims, I haven't decided yet.



I built up a set early this year and wondered if I have good wheel building techniques. I have about 30 wheels under my belt, and 1/2 dozen rebuilds.

32 3x rear Sapim Race drive side and Lasers non-drive side. The Front is Sapim Race 1x 24 spokes. All alloy nips. Build seemed uneventful, wheels are excellent on my Scott with my 210lb self. I did find the rims very stiff both during the build and certainly on the road.

My next set will be Pacenti SL25 on XTR hubs with Sapim Lasers. Ordering the Rims Monday.


----------



## 41ants (Jul 24, 2007)

I'm close to your weight 190# and will be using the Belgium+ rims per the recommendation of my builder. Mine might be a bit more robust of a build using alchemy 32/28, but I intend to use them on a cross bike. I am really looking forward to getting them based upon all the positive feedback. I would be curious to hear what route you decide to go and your impressions. Good luck with your decision.


----------



## cnardone (Jun 28, 2014)

I am reviving an older thread. I've sold my old bike and I am ready to buy new wheels. Quick Recap. Looking at Chris King Wheels. Open to other options / recommendations

I am 200 (errr 205 Lbs)
I ride for exercise and enjoyment
I was riding 65-75 miles a week last fall. Hoping to do more this year.
I ride roads only. They are in good shape.
Looking for long term reliability and extra comfort (maybe a little bling matching hubs to headset).
I climb about 100feet per mile so lots I spend lots of time going up hills.
Easy maintenance is of course nice.

I am looking at either 
Alloy Ride: Belgium +, 28/28 Sapim Race, 2 Cross
Alloy Ride Sprint: Belgium, 24/28 Sapim CX-Rays, 2 Cross

My head says get the 28/28, my gut wants the 24/28. I know that 200 grams means nothing, but still struggling with the decision. The Hed Ardennes have a stallion build (250Lbs) that is a 20/28 spoke count so I was thinking that the 24/ 28 should still be plenty stout.

Thanks for any comments and suggestions.

cmn


----------



## Munk69 (Mar 10, 2011)

I weight 20lbs more than you and I am running H-Plus Son Archtypes with White Indutries Hubs and CXrays in 28/32. These have been the best wheels I have ever ridden. They are smooth and strong and ride wonderfully. I paid 800.00 for this set up which I feel is pretty darn close to the Belgium / King set up. 

Other than the frame, the wheels are the second most important part of a build (imo). Get what you want and you will be happy with them for a long time. 

As far as the 28/28 vs 20/28.. I would go with the higher spoke count. The weight gain is minimal vs the overall strength of the build. 

Good luck!!


----------



## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

cnardone said:


> I am 200 (errr 205 Lbs)
> 
> I was thinking that the 24/ 28 should still be plenty stout.


I agree.


----------



## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

cnardone said:


> I am reviving an older thread. I've sold my old bike and I am ready to buy new wheels. Quick Recap. Looking at Chris King Wheels. Open to other options / recommendations
> 
> I am 200 (errr 205 Lbs)
> I ride for exercise and enjoyment
> ...


24/28 should be fine. 28/32 definitely would be fine.
There's no point, given the riding you described, in going lower on spokes just because you think you can.
So while you may 'know' 200 grams means nothing (actually it'll be a lot less difference than that) the question here is weather you're willing to acknowledge it. That's on you.


----------



## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

200g (.4 lbs) out of 230 lbs (rider + bike + gear) is pretty small.

I'd go with 24/28 IF the rims are wide or deep. Lace them to White Ind hubs with Sapim Race spokes. You can get that combo from a custom wheel builder.


----------



## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

ericm979 said:


> 200g (.4 lbs) out of 230 lbs (rider + bike + gear) is pretty small.
> 
> I'd go with 24/28 IF the rims are wide or deep. Lace them to White Ind hubs with Sapim Race spokes. You can get that combo from a custom wheel builder.


I know you're just repeating what the OP said for the sake of argument so not to correct you or anything but to clarify for the OP because his wording didn't seem to indicate he knows: cx-rays, for example, weigh about 4.5grams each. So we're not talking anywhere near a difference of 200grams by adding 4 spokes. More like 18.


----------



## cnardone (Jun 28, 2014)

The 200 gram difference is the quoted weight from the Chris King site (actually 180 grams). the 28/28 is the Belgium Plus (25mm) with Race spokes and the 24/28 is the Belgium (23mm) with Cx-Ray spokes. My guess is the the weight difference is mostly due to rim weight. But I am guessing.


----------



## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

cnardone said:


> The 200 gram difference is the quoted weight from the Chris King site (actually 180 grams). the 28/28 is the Belgium Plus (25mm) with Race spokes and the 24/28 is the Belgium (23mm) with Cx-Ray spokes. My guess is the the weight difference is mostly due to rim weight. But I am guessing.


gotcha, my mistake. I just saw 28/28 vs 24/28 and didn't pay enough attention to the rest of the picture.


----------



## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

The standard Belgium C2 is fine. Just use a 25mm tire.

You don't need Belgium+ rims.


----------



## 195cranky (Jun 25, 2013)

Having been through your identical choice situation, and also at 205 pounds, here is my checklist and decision path:

clincher - check
alloy - check
not pricey or dicey carbon - check
no need for carbon specific pads - check
no need to swap pads - check
no proprietary pricey replacement issues - check
easily sourced parts if needed - check
wide rim - check
lower pressure - check
aero rim features - check
climbing type shallow profile - check
strong and durable vs light - check
Sapim cxray spokes - check
alloy nips - check
come with skewers - check
20 front radial laced - check
28 3x clyde build rear - check
can run tubed or tubeless - check
easily converted to tubeless - check
23 or 25c - check
upgrade available to ceramic bearing if so desired - check
save a boat load of money - check, check

and the answer for me was...

FLO Cycling 30 clincher wheelset

around $500 a set
yes, that's correct - around half your budget
I bought two pairs for basically the budget you are looking to spend

can convert to tubeless which I have done and love
strong and durable with no issues to date
sure, could be lighter, and so could I, but ride for beer, so a few grams no biggee
can upgrade to ceramic but steel runs smooth and spins nice
stay true and ride well
can even pick sticker colors to match or contrast if that is important to you
rims designed for 23c so no need to go to the 25c fad
train and race 90 f and 95 rear pressures tubeless for a nice ride and no flat concerns
run sealant for peace of mind and for how great it works on punctures
have run tubed as well as tubeless and all of mine are now tubeless
you may be able to run 24 rear but a few more grams, a bitter stiffer wheel, more durable build and the clyde 28 has not been an issue and perform very well
the 20 radial fronts have been awesome and that comes from using Flo 30, 60 and 90 fronts all 20 radial laced
even built a FLO 30 with 32h on a PowerTap hub for giggles

To keep the wallet fuller do consider what has worked well for me and what I would easily recommend based on first hand knowledge and experience. Maybe even get a couple pairs for spare, or climbing geared, or one tubed, one tubeless. And no, I don't work for FLO. Just a happy repeat FLO customer.

Good luck in your quest.


----------



## HermesSport (Oct 3, 2014)

At the $1000 pricepoint, you're getting into territory where you'd be better off with a higher-end system built wheel, like the higher end shimano/campy/mavic, if only those came with wide rims.


----------



## 195cranky (Jun 25, 2013)

OK hermesspurt...I give up...why is he better off paying for a higher-end system built wheel? Is it because he gets to pay a premium on heavily marketed brands and some of his money goes to pay for that advertising and big overhead for those large companies? Or is it because he gets to pay and sometimes pay again at a premium for replacement on factory OEM proprietary parts? Or is it because for some perceived reason in your mind, or the mind of others, those type of wheels are so much better than a custom hand-built wheel or a FLO, Boyd, Rol, Williams, etc...

Not sure what your reasoning is since you only posted that they are a higher-end system but don't say why. Especially when the OP may be looking for a wider rim to run lower pressures. Some people prefer not to buy jewels and use their money to buy tools. Wheels at half the cost, that are built well, that are strong and durable, that perform well, that check off most of his preferences may be a much better purchase then a costly wheel set that you just pay more because of a brand name. Especially when he would get a narrow rim, run the current fad 25 width at lower pressures to get what a wider rim with a 23 at lower pressure gets anyway, plus the better tire shape, more aero, and better handling.

The debate on custom vs factory is posted often on this forum. No need to re-hash all those wonderful tales. Factory wheels can be good. Custom wheels can be good. Consumer direct wheels can be good. Expensive wheels can be good. Less expensive wheels, believe it or not, can also be good. At 205 pounds, which I am, and having had some of those wheels as past problems rule them out as possible recommendations for the OP. Unless you live in our sized world, experience the problems at our size, and back it up with stating that you are in the same weight arena really means nothing to us. 

Light weight bikes, frames, parts, wheels, etc...are not a benefit especially when they break and leave you stranded on the road-side once too many times. Parts and wheels that get you homer, or to the finish line, or last with durability are often the preferred choice. Take a trip through InterBike and go to these companies that you listed above and see just how much confidence they exude when a clyde asks about using their wheels at clyde weight. Custom 28 or 32 3x or clyde built direct wheels are my choice and that is what I passed on to the OP. You passed on that you and many others drink the kool-aid and maybe have never tried some hard miles on alternatives to mass marketed products.


----------



## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

cnardone said:


> The 200 gram difference is the quoted weight from the Chris King site (actually 180 grams). the 28/28 is the Belgium Plus (25mm) with Race spokes and the 24/28 is the Belgium (23mm) with Cx-Ray spokes. My guess is the the weight difference is mostly due to rim weight. But I am guessing.


According to BHS' weights a Sapim Race spoke weighs 1.3g more than a longer (272 vs 280) CX-Ray. So that's 5.3 (272mm race) * 4 + 52 * 1.3 = ~89g. So about half of this will be the spoke weight.


----------



## cnardone (Jun 28, 2014)

HermesSport said:


> At the $1000 pricepoint, you're getting into territory where you'd be better off with a higher-end system built wheel, like the higher end shimano/campy/mavic, if only those came with wide rims.


I am certainly open to other ideas. All the feedback I've ever read on this forum is to stay away from proprietary stuff and Mavic in particular. So I never really even considered Mavic.

For Shimano c-24s, I've read that 180lbs is the upper limit in the wheel. Does the c-35 handle more weight? at $1600 they are a good bit more expensive than what I am looking at. 

That leaves the Camp Shamal Ultra. I really can't find much on weight limit on these either. I see that they are fast. Will they be as comfortable as the wider rimmed Belgiums? Easy of maintenance?

thanks
cmn


----------



## Bridgestone (Sep 6, 2007)

195cranky said:


> OK hermesspurt...I give up...why is he better off paying for a higher-end system built wheel? Is it because he gets to pay a premium on heavily marketed brands and some of his money goes to pay for that advertising and big overhead for those large companies? Or is it because he gets to pay and sometimes pay again at a premium for replacement on factory OEM proprietary parts? Or is it because for some perceived reason in your mind, or the mind of others, those type of wheels are so much better than a custom hand-built wheel or a FLO, Boyd, Rol, Williams, etc...
> 
> Not sure what your reasoning is since you only posted that they are a higher-end system but don't say why. Especially when the OP may be looking for a wider rim to run lower pressures. Some people prefer not to buy jewels and use their money to buy tools. Wheels at half the cost, that are built well, that are strong and durable, that perform well, that check off most of his preferences may be a much better purchase then a costly wheel set that you just pay more because of a brand name. Especially when he would get a narrow rim, run the current fad 25 width at lower pressures to get what a wider rim with a 23 at lower pressure gets anyway, plus the better tire shape, more aero, and better handling.
> 
> ...


Some factory wheels offer features that are not readily available over the counter at market pricing and build a better wheel. For instance Fulcrum rear flange spacing coupled with 2:1 lacing, a nice feature especially on 11 speed. I agree their are advantages to custom wheels, but superior performance at a most price points is not one of them. UK pricing seems to have leveled out the playing field IMO


----------



## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Bridgestone said:


> Some factory wheels offer features that are not readily available over the counter at market pricing and build a better wheel. For instance Fulcrum rear flange spacing coupled with 2:1 lacing,


At the very least, parts are available (or complete wheelsets) from BikeHubStore.com that offer 2:1 - and they're our new forum sponsor too!


----------



## Bridgestone (Sep 6, 2007)

Mike T. said:


> At the very least, parts are available (or complete wheelsets) from BikeHubStore.com that offer 2:1 - and they're our new forum sponsor too!


Two words- Flange spacing


----------



## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

cnardone said:


> I am certainly open to other ideas. All the feedback I've ever read on this forum is to stay away from proprietary stuff and Mavic in particular. So I never really even considered Mavic.
> 
> For Shimano c-24s, I've read that 180lbs is the upper limit in the wheel. Does the c-35 handle more weight? at $1600 they are a good bit more expensive than what I am looking at.
> 
> ...


Take "weight limits" with a grain of salt and apply common sense over what an advertised weight limit is.
I'm sure there are 120 pounders who've had problems with c24s just like there are 300 pounders having no problem at all. A weight limit is just a clue not a guarrantee.

Make your goal to minimize the chance of having problems and also important is being cool with what you need to go though to deal with problems when they happen. And don't assume "custom" means problems will be easy/cheap to deal with, There are plenty of hubs out there that are a pain to services


----------



## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

cnardone said:


> For Shimano c-24s, I've read that 180lbs is the upper limit in the wheel.


Discussions of rider weight limits regarding Shimano wheels do not originate from Shimano.

Shimano does not have published rider weight limits, and Shimano wheel warranties are not limited by rider weight.


----------



## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Bridgestone said:


> Two words- Flange spacing


Can you provide some numbers to support the "features that are not readily available over the counter.........For instance Fulcrum rear flange spacing" versus the BHS 2:1 hubs?


----------



## Ligero (Oct 21, 2005)

Mike T. said:


> Can you provide some numbers to support the "features that are not readily available over the counter.........For instance Fulcrum rear flange spacing" versus the BHS 2:1 hubs?


The BHS 2:1 rear hub has a non drive flange spacing of 37.6mm, which is about the same as most rear hubs, give or take a few mm's. The Fulcrum hubs have a NDS flange spacing of around 50mm, I don't remember the exact number but it was really close to the same as my old triplet hubs which were 49mm. The BHS hubs will have nearly perfect tension balance between the two sides but the Fulcrum wheel will be stiffer because of the wider NDS and still have 25% higher NDS tension than a standard laced wheel.


----------



## Bridgestone (Sep 6, 2007)

Mike T. said:


> Can you provide some numbers to support the "features that are not readily available over the counter.........For instance Fulcrum rear flange spacing" versus the BHS 2:1 hubs?


SL210 SuperLight Rear Hub - 210 grams 54.4 37.3 +17.1 , BHS numbers
Fulcrum 5; 60.0 my ruler. My hub has straight pull spokes, so I measured to the inside of the inside DS spoke and the inside of the NDS spoke.

Is there another "specific" BHS 2:1 hub?


----------



## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Ligero said:


> The BHS 2:1 rear hub has a non drive flange spacing of 37.6mm, which is about the same as most rear hubs, give or take a few mm's. The Fulcrum hubs have a NDS flange spacing of around 50mm, I don't remember the exact number but it was really close to the same as my old triplet hubs which were 49mm. The BHS hubs will have nearly perfect tension balance between the two sides but the Fulcrum wheel will be stiffer because of the wider NDS and still have 25% higher NDS tension than a standard laced wheel.


My NDS tension on my BHS 18/9 is 90% of the DS. The wider NDS spacing of the Fulcrum 2:1 at 50mm (versus 37.6 of the BHS) will provide a lower NDS tension percentage, relative to the DS tension. I wonder whether the benefit of one would cancel out the benefit of the other? But then I've often wondered if 2:1 is a solution looking for a problem. My wheels have never suffered from having (approx) 50% tension variance between sides.


----------



## Ligero (Oct 21, 2005)

Mike T. said:


> My NDS tension on my BHS 18/9 is 90% of the DS. The wider NDS spacing of the Fulcrum 2:1 at 50mm (versus 37.6 of the BHS) will provide a lower NDS tension percentage, relative to the DS tension. I wonder whether the benefit of one would cancel out the benefit of the other? But then I've often wondered if 2:1 is a solution looking for a problem. My wheels have never suffered from having (approx) 50% tension variance between sides.


2:1 lacing isn't really a benefit on higher spoke count wheels unless you are talking about some disc wheels. It is my opinion that the real benefit with 2:1 lacing is being able to make a lower spoke count wheel that is just as durable and if the flange spacing is right, just as stiff as higher spoke count wheels. Side benefit is I think they look cool and we all know that looking cool is the most important part.


----------



## Bridgestone (Sep 6, 2007)

Mike T. said:


> My NDS tension on my BHS 18/9 is 90% of the DS. The wider NDS spacing of the Fulcrum 2:1 at 50mm (versus 37.6 of the BHS) will provide a lower NDS tension percentage, relative to the DS tension. I wonder whether the benefit of one would cancel out the benefit of the other? But then I've often wondered if 2:1 is a solution looking for a problem. My wheels have never suffered from having (approx) 50% tension variance between sides.


Probably a "depends" answer but a wheel with wider flange spacing would probably perform better on a mountain descent, no?


----------



## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Bridgestone said:


> Probably a "depends" answer but a wheel with wider flange spacing would probably perform better on a mountain descent, no?


If it was an issue I would imagine more companies would have gone that way by now. Most (all?) of the major hub makers haven't - that I'm aware of. I just checked two of them.


----------



## colnagoG60 (Jun 27, 2013)

cnardone said:


> I am certainly open to other ideas. All the feedback I've ever read on this forum is to stay away from proprietary stuff and Mavic in particular. So I never really even considered Mavic...


FWIW, I went with the 23mm Belgiums, and weighed 193lbs at the time (now down to 180), and the White Industries T11 (blue hubs...not sure they'd match Chris King headset), 24/28 and 85lbs/90lbs. Carbon bike is much more comfortable on the very rough, and "tree-root damaged" trails around DC...more so than my steel bike with carbon fork, 19mm wheels with higher pressures. They've stayed true even after hitting several nasty potholes over the past 2k mi. I'm sure the Conti 4000S IIs are helping as well. 

That said, if I was running Shimano (thinking of a Di2 build), I'd be all over the *Belgium Kermese* over at Excel Sports, for ~$510 for the pair (32/32). They're using Ultegra hubs and DT spokes. My build was ~$900, at my local shop, as I wanted to give them some business for building my bike with parts bought online...online prices for my wheel build would be around $650-$750. I went with the White T11 hubs because I've read/heard that they may be a little easier to service than the Chris Kings...but mainly because they were a little cheaper, and had been getting good reviews.


----------



## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

cnardone said:


> For Shimano c-24s, I've read that 180lbs is the upper limit in the wheel. Does the c-35 handle more weight? at $1600 they are a good bit more expensive than what I am looking at.


At your weight or anything over 160lbs I wouldn't run a 16/20 spoked wheelset. I weigh 145 and I didn't like my 16 spokes carbon 50mm wheel. I do have a 18H Easton EC90 56mm now that I do find better (not sure if it's the wheel build itself). And the C24s are shallower meaning the spoke is longer which creates more flex than a deep wheel.

As you said, you don't care about the weight. 24+ spokes on the front is your best bet.


----------



## Ligero (Oct 21, 2005)

Mike T. said:


> If it was an issue I would imagine more companies would have gone that way by now. Most (all?) of the major hub makers haven't - that I'm aware of. I just checked two of them.


Lets see there is,

American Classic
Industry Nine
Shimano
Campy
Fulcrum
Roval

All of those companies are have switched to 2:1 lacing with a widely spaced NDS flange. The reason hub companies don't do it is because it would mean a dedicated design for one hole count (24) and would not work with all aftermarket rims.


----------



## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Ligero said:


> Lets see there is,
> 
> American Classic
> Industry Nine
> ...


I guess I wasn't clear enough. I meant "hub makers". Plus, I'm not up on factory pre-built wheelsets as I'll never go that route.



> would not work with all aftermarket rims.


I hear ya on that one. BHS collaborated with Kirk over the 27h rims for Brandon's 27h hubs. At least that design gave more spoke numbers for those people who know they shouldn't ride around on 24 spoke rear wheels - especially ones with only 8 spokes on the NDS.


----------



## HermesSport (Oct 3, 2014)

I've seen some truly massive guys riding C24s and other ultra-low-spoke-count wheels for a very long time without any drama. The specifics of the design, not the least of which is the really huge spoke tensions that those wheels tend to run makes up for the lower spoke count. A custom wheel built 16/20 with commercially available parts would not last very long at all, however. When comparing factory wheel spoke counts and custom wheel spoke counts, it's definitely a case of apples-and-oranges.

On the maintenance front, there are certainly traditional hubs that are much more difficult to work on than factory-wheel hubs. As far as spokes, etc. you do frequently have proprietary stuff to deal with, but nowadays straight pull/various brands' aluminum/etc. spokes are so ubiquitous that it's practically a moot point.


----------



## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

HermesSport said:


> I've seen some truly massive guys riding* C24s and other ultra-low-spoke-count wheels for a very long time without any drama. The specifics of the design, not the least of which is the really huge spoke tensions that those wheels tend to run makes up for the lower spoke count. A custom wheel built 16/20 with commercially available parts would not last very long at all, however. When comparing factory wheel spoke counts and custom wheel spoke counts, it's definitely a case of apples-and-oranges.*On the maintenance front, there are certainly traditional hubs that are much more difficult to work on than factory-wheel hubs. As far as spokes, etc. you do frequently have proprietary stuff to deal with, but nowadays straight pull/various brands' aluminum/etc. spokes are so ubiquitous that it's practically a moot point.


My 16/20 DA wheels were pre-c24 but I believe the same deal with the hub spacing ect. but I beat the crap out of them with no problems as all. I've also had several set of custom wheels.

I prefer the custom wheels as the seem to ride a bit better (probably due to the wider rim) and I don't give a flying fck about having a low spoke count but I definitely can't argue with anything you said. I was only about 160 pounds riding the DA factory wheels (about 140 now) but beat the living heck out of them on bad New England roads without ever needing even a slight truing.
I've had a few problems with custom wheels. Most minor a few major.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

in short, I'd say no
unless you went White Industries or Phill Wood, but that's mostly a matter of taste


----------



## bleckb (Jun 13, 2005)

One thing about CK hubs is they are not quiet. I have an older pair, 9-speed, and they do make a racket when coasting. (I have joked in that past, when people comment, that what they are hearing is the sound of quality. I don't know if they believe me.) They are now on my son's bike. 

Also, at some point you'll be overhauling them. I live in Spokane so my LBS shipped them to Portland to be serviced as they didn't feel confident taking on a job they rarely do. They turned them around pretty quickly, but at some point, you'll likely need to do the same.


----------



## willstylez (Sep 15, 2011)

I've had great luck with White Industries Hubs. Started out on the H2/H3 hubs, and now have their CLD hubs. Great craftsmanship, great price point, & beautiful to the eye (IMO).


----------

