# Racing Categories - Cat 5 or Masters?



## Darin

I'm 47 and have never raced. I know new racers go to Cat 5 but there's also the Masters category which by age puts me in that category as well. 

So how do the categories fit new racers of my age?
Thanks


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## capt_phun

Masters category is for Cat 4, 3, 2, 1 only. You can not race Masters as a Cat 5. Do your 10 cat 5 races, learn a lot, see you you make out in the 5's and then maybe considering upgrading to Cat 4 & racing masters. If you are getting shelled in the Cat 5 races, you will more than likely be crushed by the Masters.


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## jake21

The masters group I race in is FAST.


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## Darin

Yeah, that's what I figured. Those Masters have been racing for some time and have all the experience. Thanks for clearing that up.


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## rellimreeb

Darin said:


> Yeah, that's what I figured. Those Masters have been racing for some time and have all the experience. Thanks for clearing that up.


Master Races often have many retired Pro's who don't seem much slower than they were in their prime. Master's Races are fast and *smooth*. I learn a lot wheelsucking in the 40+ master races 

Have fun racing - Cat 5's fun, just ride smart and you'll do fine.


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## Wookiebiker

As others have said...start in CAT 5.

The masters class races many times have CAT 1/2 guys in them that are old enough to qualify for the masters class and can race either category. In shorter races they may race both masters and CAT 1/2 to get in a longer workout that day...or maybe they want different competition or are aiming to win their age class at a certain race.

Regardless of the reason...they are fast.

The only way I would say to go masters category is if they have it broken down into categories as well as ages...other than that start with everybody else, get some experience and work from there.

The one benefit to racing masters is they tend to be better bike handlers and "Generally" a term I use loosely...tend to be less aggressive, at least until the very end of the race. They have more race experience and know when to go hard and when to go easy and don't make nearly as aggressive/stupid moves on the road as you see in CAT 5 and 4 races.


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## Coolhand

Master 40+ tends to be the second fastest race of the day to the Mens 1,2 field. Plus the Cat 1-2 Bar Champ has been a 40+ Master a few years in a row, so no mercy in the Masters ranks.

But the racing is much smoother, no stupid risk-taking and due to the high "repeat player" factor and the fact that most of us have been racing against each other for years it is very cordial before and after the race.


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## ericm979

Some races in some areas have masters 4/5 fields. If your races have those I suggest racing in them. Here in NorCal we have quite a few- probably 80% of races have a 35+ 4/5 and 2/3s have a 45+ 4/5. As a 45 you can race with the 35s.


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## zosocane

I am going to take a contrarian view here and respectfully disagree with the others on this thread. Assuming you are able to register for a masters ride -- even if it's your first race -- and you're 35+ or 45+, etc., DO IT. You WILL get destroyed and you will probably get dropped, but most importantly you WILL learn. You will almost definitely slip to the back of the peloton (not out of choice, and of course suffer and work harder than those in the front or the middle), but you will be so far ahead of the learning curve than your peers starting in Crash 5, uh, I mean Cat 5. Try to ride a masters category and cat 5 same day if it's a crit, that's great training. That's how I started racing: my neighbor (a state cat 3 road race champ) was insistent that my first race be a master's 35+ crit. I thought he was smacked out, but I did it (a crit), got dropped after a few laps, but then did more and more of them until I didn't get dropped. And what a night-and-day difference with the cat 5 in terms of SMOOTHNESS through turns, etc.

It's axiomatic that you get faster riding with fast riders; I also believe you become a smoother rider riding with smooth riders. Think of the master's cats as going to class, and the cat 5 as your exam. You should be ahead of your cat 5 peers at least in technical skills, if not strength. Soon enough you will be in cat 4, and then focus on getting good placings to get yourself into cat 3.

Good luck!


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## rellimreeb

fornaca68 said:


> I am going to take a contrarian view here and respectfully disagree with the others on this thread. Assuming you are able to register for a masters ride -- even if it's your first race -- and you're 35+ or 45+, etc., DO IT. You WILL get destroyed and you will probably get dropped, but most importantly you WILL learn. You will almost definitely slip to the back of the peloton (not out of choice, and of course suffer and work harder than those in the front or the middle), but you will be so far ahead of the learning curve than your peers starting in Crash 5, uh, I mean Cat 5. Try to ride a masters category and cat 5 same day if it's a crit, that's great training. That's how I started racing: my neighbor (a state cat 3 road race champ) was insistent that my first race be a master's 35+ crit. I thought he was smacked out, but I did it (a crit), got dropped after a few laps, but then did more and more of them until I didn't get dropped. And what a night-and-day difference with the cat 5 in terms of SMOOTHNESS through turns, etc.
> 
> It's axiomatic that you get faster riding with fast riders; I also believe you become a smoother rider riding with smooth riders. Think of the master's cats as going to class, and the cat 5 as your exam. You should be ahead of your cat 5 peers at least in technical skills, if not strength. Soon enough you will be in cat 4, and then focus on getting good placings to get yourself into cat 3.
> 
> Good luck!


He can't race masters as a CAT 5 anyway, so it's moot. Get your 10 races in, then figure out what you want to do.


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## zosocane

rellimreeb said:


> He can't race masters as a CAT 5 anyway, so it's moot. Get your 10 races in, then figure out what you want to do.


Not true in all cases -- at some events when I was cat 5 I did Master's also.


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## pretender

fornaca68 said:


> It's axiomatic that you get faster riding with fast riders;


Unless you get dropped in the first five minutes and spend the rest of the race soloing.

Cat 5 to begin with. Masters later.


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## Darin

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm not so worried about getting drop. If you read the board enough you know it happens to everyone sooner or later. I just want to get out there and try it.


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## capt_phun

fornaca68 said:


> Not true in all cases -- at some events when I was cat 5 I did Master's also.


Well at some local race maybe but under USA Cycling rules you have to be at least a CAT-4 to race masters.


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## Undecided

*"some local race"*



capt_phun said:


> Well at some local race maybe but under USA Cycling rules you have to be at least a CAT-4 to race masters.


Check out the NCNCA calendar. Several races that purport to be held "under USCF Rules & Permit" include 35+ 4/5 or 45+ 4/5 (e.g., Cantua Creek seems to include two fields for each of those designations). If the OP has the option of doing a masters 4/5 race, I'd encourage it; I doubt it's slower, but everybody knows they have to go to work on Monday.


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## aceswild30

First check the rules regarding Masters for your region. In Washington state the Masters are broken down into 4 levels: A, B, C, and D. D is anyone 50 years old or older. The other are based on your age and category. Last year was the first time I had raced since I was in college almost 20 years ago. Most of my races were Masters C/D and I stayed with the group pretty well. It was usually a smoother and safer group than the Cat 5's.


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## fleck

where do you live?
Colorado might be adding to the master's catagories. Currently we have a 35+cat 4 but they might be adding 35+ cat 3 and 45+ cat 4
(we don't do a cat 5 group here)


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## iliveonnitro

Many Masters categories around here are 1/2/3 and 4/5...

Race masters 4/5...not 1/2/3.


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## cxwrench

iliveonnitro said:


> Many Masters categories around here are 1/2/3 and 4/5...
> 
> Race masters 4/5...not 1/2/3.


uhmmm...that's not really an issue, if he's never raced there's no way he'd be able to enter a 1/2/3 race. 
i'd race the masters 4/5 if there is one...as a previous poster so accurately stated, masters racers generally have to go to work on monday, so you're a bit more likely to survive w/o getting crashed by some teenager. 
as for doing 10 races and thinking about upgrading...i think it's automatic, isn't it? you finish 10 and you're a 4? why would you want to stay in the public/5 category races anyway?


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## Coolhand

cxwrench said:


> uhmmm...that's not really an issue, if he's never raced there's no way he'd be able to enter a 1/2/3 race.
> i'd race the masters 4/5 if there is one...as a previous poster so accurately stated, masters racers generally have to go to work on monday, so you're a bit more likely to survive w/o getting crashed by some teenager.
> as for doing 10 races and thinking about upgrading...i think it's automatic, isn't it? you finish 10 and you're a 4? why would you want to stay in the public/5 category races anyway?


If you did badly in the 5's (say no top 10's) you may want to stick around the 5's a bit longer before venturing into the crash-filled 100+ field limit size Cat 4 field.


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## rellimreeb

Coolhand said:


> If you did badly in the 5's (say no top 10's) you may want to stick around the 5's a bit longer before venturing into the crash-filled 100+ field limit size Cat 4 field.


that's a good point - I think Cat4 racing can be just as sketchy as Cat5 races.


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## Keeping up with Junior

*Age vs. Ability*



Darin said:


> So how do the categories fit new racers of my age?


The question you should be asking is, _So how do the categories fit new racers of my *ability*? _ As previoulsly noted the typical Masters field will use you up and spit you out the back when they are done with you. The only experience you will likely get is clipping in at the start because it is likely you will not be in the field long enough to get any real racing experience.

The people you should be asking this question of is the other racers you ride and train with. If you are just slogging out the miles on the nowhere bike in your basement then definitely enter the Cat 5. There is a whole lot more to racing than watts on your powermeter and hours on the trainer. Pack skills as well as being able to read how a race is unfolding is important. The other racers you ride and train with will be in a good position to give you advice on what category to enter based on your *ability*.


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## ttug

*well said*



Keeping up with Junior said:


> The question you should be asking is, _So how do the categories fit new racers of my *ability*? _ As previoulsly noted the typical Masters field will use you up and spit you out the back when they are done with you. The only experience you will likely get is clipping in at the start because it is likely you will not be in the field long enough to get any real racing experience.
> 
> The people you should be asking this question of is the other racers you ride and train with. If you are just slogging out the miles on the nowhere bike in your basement then definitely enter the Cat 5. There is a whole lot more to racing than watts on your powermeter and hours on the trainer. Pack skills as well as being able to read how a race is unfolding is important. The other racers you ride and train with will be in a good position to give you advice on what category to enter based on your *ability*.


We had a seniors riding club in PA and it was a wonderful sight to see the young stud clip in and think, geez, the geezers have gray hair, I am gonna smoke em.


The only word there is WRONG WRONG WRONG.

Same applies, there is no benefit or learning experience behind watching a group ride away as you give up your lunch on a top tube.


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## TWB8s

ttug said:


> We had a seniors riding club in PA.



If you're anywhere near Philly, Say hi to Grant Krow for me (Tim) He summers here in Wisco with his wife Jessica. At 67 he's every bit as fast as most of the 20-somethings.


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## fleck

ttug said:


> We had a seniors riding club in PA and it was a wonderful sight to see the young stud clip in and think, geez, the geezers have gray hair, I am gonna smoke em.
> 
> 
> The only word there is WRONG WRONG WRONG.
> 
> Same applies, there is no benefit or learning experience behind watching a group ride away as you give up your lunch on a top tube.


I learned my humility pretty quick on the road. Met up with some guys after having a road bike all of 2 weeks. The summary of the group was 55+ some former racers and a couple still in the game once and a while. I was pretty fit and had lots of MTB time behind me but they put the hurt on. They have been instumental for my learning curve. Teaching me to ride in a paceline, coffee chats afterward taught me race stragity. Our sunday ride was between 60 and 80 miles and we'd average 20 including a pretty chill pace on the front and back ends.


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## Doc1k

zosocane said:


> I am going to take a contrarian view here and respectfully disagree with the others on this thread. Assuming you are able to register for a masters ride -- even if it's your first race -- and you're 35+ or 45+, etc., DO IT. You WILL get destroyed and you will probably get dropped, but most importantly you WILL learn. You will almost definitely slip to the back of the peloton (not out of choice, and of course suffer and work harder than those in the front or the middle), but you will be so far ahead of the learning curve than your peers starting in Crash 5, uh, I mean Cat 5. Try to ride a masters category and cat 5 same day if it's a crit, that's great training. That's how I started racing: my neighbor (a state cat 3 road race champ) was insistent that my first race be a master's 35+ crit. I thought he was smacked out, but I did it (a crit), got dropped after a few laps, but then did more and more of them until I didn't get dropped. And what a night-and-day difference with the cat 5 in terms of SMOOTHNESS through turns, etc.
> 
> It's axiomatic that you get faster riding with fast riders; I also believe you become a smoother rider riding with smooth riders. Think of the master's cats as going to class, and the cat 5 as your exam. You should be ahead of your cat 5 peers at least in technical skills, if not strength. Soon enough you will be in cat 4, and then focus on getting good placings to get yourself into cat 3.
> 
> Good luck!


Well said!!


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## Kerry Irons

Doc1k said:


> Well said!!


Glad to see this piling on, nearly 12 YEARS after that post.


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