# Need a recommendation for a Ti Frame, Merlin CR ?



## BenH

I'm looking for a used frame I can get under $1800. I've seen several Merlin Extralights used and even new for around $1200 but have seen comments that the frames may be a bit dated as in bad old flexy ti. I also see Spectrum's come up for sale. Seems like the prices are all over the board.

I've seen fewer CR's out there for a bit more but in the same neighborhood. It's hard to tell the differences in the two frames based on the Merlin site descriptions other than the CR seems to be targeted at a lower price range.

The Litespeed Archon looks extremely interesting but other than two on eBay that already sold, I can scarcely find one.

I'm looking for an all around road bike. I'd love it to be at least reasonably stiff by a modern 2008 high end road bike criteria but of course soak up crappy roads better. I'm 5'10 162lb and ride on Seattle's crappy roads. I do otherwise love to do long climbs and formerly rode Trek 5500, 5900's. I have a Roubaix now and am also considering a Look 585 (yeah, I know they're VERY different).


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## cpark

Lood for a Serotta Legend on eBay.
I scored a barely used one (with full Dura Ace) last year for $1700.....


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## Juanmoretime

Also look for either a Titus Solera or a Lynskey r320. Both are excellent frames with the nod going to the Lynskey.


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## BenH

Thanks, that helps alot.

What's the word on the Merlin's anyway. Anyone ride a CR 3.2/5 ?


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## socrates

I have been riding my Works CR for just over a year now. I am over the moon with it. Dont listen to the flexy stories about ti. Many riders in the pro peloton have used and are still using re-badged ti bikes.You can access Cycling Weekly's report on the CR on the net or I believe it is also printed on the Merlin website. Google it and you will find another couple of independent reports. Best of luck.


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## BenH

Thanks Socates,

Any idea how it compares to the Extralight ? There are simply more of them out there used. I know some of the newer Ti frames are much more efficient, just trying to sort out the good from the better.


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## todorrad

*its awesome*

I've started collecting ti bikes (up to 3 now), and have spend a good chunk of time on carbon steeds. My favorite by a large margin is the Merlin Works CR. For me, its the best balance of stiffness, comfort, and quickness. 

You probably know this already, but the frame has a head tube angle of 74 degrees. I've got mine set up with a fork rake of 40mm - so it is lightening quick. Took a bit of getting used to in group rides, but the bike REALLY shines in the corners. Really feels like the bike "carves" through corners, and it just goes where you think. Never experienced this before.

Probably some placebo effect working on me, but I also find that I stand/hammer up climbs much more than any other bike. 

If you find a good deal, go for it.


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## henria86

i have a cr works. its just right an the right fit.. its light an stiff where it needs to be an im able to ride the cobble stones in the city . with out being tossed an shaked


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## ibhim

The reason you are finding more use Extralights is that they have been around for many more years. I am guessing over a decade. The CR debuited as a 2006 model effectively replacing the compact Agilis. On the Litespeed side, the Sienna is the closest to the CR. Litespeed has gotten away from the traditional frame like the Extralight (and Cyrene) going to a compact lineup as they discontinued the Tuscany and others. Also Moots Vamoots and Compact would be in the same priceclass as the CR which would be another option to consider on ebay.


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## henria86

here's a pic mine


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## bigtea

Both Merlin and Litespeed are made by the same company. I ride a Litespeed Siena and love it. It's an amazing blend of speed, response, craftsmanship, and comfort. And of course the big bonus, titanium is forever.


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## Stanley M. Linden

I love Ti. I have a Merlin Solis and an Agilis. Love them both. Every wrench I know loves Merlin. They have it all . The welds are the best. Stiff, fast , does it all. No better Ti Company.
My wife even came up with a Ti Shirt design on cafe press, check it out
It says i ride ti, with the table of elements for ti in the background.
Brigitteshop at cafe press
Long Live Ti


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## Stanley M. Linden

HERE IS A LINK FOR A GREAT TI T OR POLO SHIRT, CHECK IT OUT
http://clothing.cafepress.com/item/i-ride-titanium-golf-shirt/283350664


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## avalonracing

I have a CR Ti and is a very nice ride. It is definitely a modern race bike. There have been some good buys on CR Merlins on ebay lately.


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## pbird74

*Go with the Works CR!!!*

After reading umpteen positive reviews of the CR (and trying to find a negative one), I decided to get one...best decision yet. Love the bike. I put 80 Appalachian miles on it yesterday, and I can't wait to get back on it. It's under 17 lbs, rides like a dream, and has a better ride quality than any bike I have EVER been on. Love it!!
P. Bird
Did I say I LOVE this bike?:thumbsup:


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## Ria

deleted


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## bigtea

Ria...I'll not argue with you a bit about the comparability of the top end ti framesets from those manufacturers you listed. That said, in titanium, a compact geometry offers a much different feel than a traditional geometry. My compact Litespeed Siena is quicker, lighter, and much stiffer in the bottom bracket than was my traditional geometry Firenze. For most cyclists riding titanium, however, that difference doesn't matter at all, because with ti you need only one bike and it will last forever.


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## socrates

Been told that the Works is being dropped from the Merlin stable this year. There will be a new Extralight which is the old Extralight with the Works profiled tubes. In other words the Works under a different name. Seems there were a lot of people out there who wanted the Extralight back again.


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## Stanley M. Linden

To Ria 
You are on the money.
I have 2 merlins and have ridden cervelo, lynsky,serotta.
All about preferance.
Go out and just ride
I call it soul ridding
good for the soul


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## Roadplay

*My New Merlin Build*



BenH said:


> Thanks, that helps alot.
> 
> What's the word on the Merlin's anyway. Anyone ride a CR 3.2/5 ?



I bought this 2006 frame on ebay last month. The BB area is very stiff, however, the head tub area is a little more flexi than I am used to. My other bike is a SWorks Tarmac. That being said I ride my Merlin almost 90% of the time when riding solo. I ride my Tarmac in fast group rides. I'm 185 lbs, so the head tub area may not be as flexi for you.

Also, I have a couple 22 mile routes that I generally ride. I like to ride these shorter routes at a very fast pace. I can tell you that my times are virtually identical on both bikes.


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## Ria

deleted


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## Erwin8r

...it's not necessarily about logic or ability/need. My bike is way more capable than I am--but then again, so is my car, and my motorcycle(s). It is all about that "magic" feel one gets on the perfect ride whilst atop the perfect bicycle. For me, it's my Merlin. For others, it may be their Madone, or whatever--but this is a ti-bike forum and the poster is obviously very interested in ti.

You can't go wrong with the Merlin CR. I love my Agilis. Enough so that I am selling my Ultimate (I loved that bike as well, but I can only have one master ;o). The quality and pride in ownership are unmatched. 

I, too, have had a myriad of bicycles (I won't include the pre-teen years...), starting with De Rosa SLX-tubed classics (and Ciocc's, Tomassinis, Bottechia's, Merckx, etc.) and on through the rigid aluminum (Merak) and carbon (Trek OCLV) crazes. I've landed with Ti bikes. Unbeatable durability (I am no longer a 185-lb svelte spinner...), unbeatable feel, and undeniable re-sale value (if necessary). True legacy bikes. I have nothing against steel bikes--matter of fact, I wish I had my old white De Rosa--but I know why people fall in love with their ti bikes. The good ones, anyway. And it has more to do with feel than it does logic.


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## BenH

*CR Headtube height*

Thanks for all the posts. I checked out the CR geometry and noticed it has a fairly short headtube (for a non-racer enthusiast). While I don't intend to cruise around sitting upright, I have longer legs than most folks so on a racing geometry frame, I end up far more bent than most. One of the newer more upright bikes (such as Cervelo RS, Trek Madone Performance) actually fits me more like a regular road bike. But back to Merlins, I'm a tad reluctant to just put 3cm of spacers in there but that's more due to the bizarre look. I'm more compelled to get a CR than ever reading people's experiences with it but I think even among Ti bikes, it's on the shorter end. Yes, I know it's aimed at the racing folks. Even the Extralight has a 12.5 cm headtube on it's 55cm bike. I think the Lynskey's are closer to 16cm but I hear a much more mixed reaction to Lynskey's. Not taking anything away from Lynskey, but people seem crazy happy about their CRs.


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## Juanmoretime

BenH said:


> Thanks for all the posts. I checked out the CR geometry and noticed it has a fairly short headtube (for a non-racer enthusiast). While I don't intend to cruise around sitting upright, I have longer legs than most folks so on a racing geometry frame, I end up far more bent than most. One of the newer more upright bikes (such as Cervelo RS, Trek Madone Performance) actually fits me more like a regular road bike. But back to Merlins, I'm a tad reluctant to just put 3cm of spacers in there but that's more due to the bizarre look. I'm more compelled to get a CR than ever reading people's experiences with it but I think even among Ti bikes, it's on the shorter end. Yes, I know it's aimed at the racing folks. Even the Extralight has a 12.5 cm headtube on it's 55cm bike. I think the Lynskey's are closer to 16cm but I hear a much more mixed reaction to Lynskey's. Not taking anything away from Lynskey, but people seem crazy happy about their CRs.


Crazy happy about my R320. Its nice not to have the spacer police looking for you. I'm only using a 3mm spacer on my M/L to tune in the perfect bar height. Go Lynskey!


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## Maximus_XXIV

I have the opposite issue. The 420 has a head tube that is too tall for me, yet I love the ride. If it does well for me in 2009, I will pick up a M 2009 430, which has a shorter head tube and a little longer top tube. It will be a perfect fit for me. Now I just need to make sure that the beautifully stiff frame treats my back right.


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## Eric_H

*Short headtube issues*



BenH said:


> Thanks for all the posts. I checked out the CR geometry and noticed it has a fairly short headtube (for a non-racer enthusiast). While I don't intend to cruise around sitting upright, I have longer legs than most folks so on a racing geometry frame, I end up far more bent than most. One of the newer more upright bikes (such as Cervelo RS, Trek Madone Performance) actually fits me more like a regular road bike. But back to Merlins, I'm a tad reluctant to just put 3cm of spacers in there but that's more due to the bizarre look. I'm more compelled to get a CR than ever reading people's experiences with it but I think even among Ti bikes, it's on the shorter end. Yes, I know it's aimed at the racing folks. Even the Extralight has a 12.5 cm headtube on it's 55cm bike. I think the Lynskey's are closer to 16cm but I hear a much more mixed reaction to Lynskey's. Not taking anything away from Lynskey, but people seem crazy happy about their CRs.


You are correct about the CR Works having a short head tube. I have a size M/L and the head tube is 144 mm on it. That is 21 mm shorter than my Strong steel at 165 mm. I was concerned about the HT length but I got an exceptional deal on the frame so I went for it. I am currently running a Thomson X2 stem (80 deg rise) with King HS on both bikes I use a single 7 mm spacer on the Strong and a single Chris King 25 mm spacer on the Merlin. It does not look horrendous, mostly because the spacer is one single piece. I do not notice any adverse flex in the setup. My fork is Reynolds Ouzo Pro standard (on both bikes) and they approve up 40 mm of spacers for their forks.

I could reduce spacer height by switching stems, for example a Ritchey WCS has 84 degree rise. For my stem length of 120 mm this would raise the bars about 10 mm (sin4*120 + 2 mm in stack height difference of Ritchey vs. Thomson =~ 10 mm). A Deda Newton with 86 degree rise would get me 12.5 mm (sin6*120 =~ 12.5mm). But I am a fan of the Thomson product.

FWIW, I am a road racer and reasonably flexible but I do not run a huge saddle-bar drop. I'll try to get a picture of my CR Works up later today.


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## reippuert

BenH said:


> Thanks Socates,
> 
> Any idea how it compares to the Extralight ? There are simply more of them out there used. I know some of the newer Ti frames are much more efficient, just trying to sort out the good from the better.


The Works CR should be almost identical to the new Extralight witch is in fact a rebranded Works TR - the differnces bween the CR are and TR are only the compact geometry (eg lower point of gravety and lower weight)


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