# Tiagra-Ultegra compatibility



## djtodd (Nov 2, 2010)

Current bike is a 2010 Giant Defy 2. Comes with a Tiagra groupset, and I'm thinking about an upgrade or two during the off season.

I'm in no real need of a 3 ring crank, and I was curious about the compatibility. If I leave the shifters and front derailler alone, can I swap out the 3 ring tiagra for a 2 ring ultegra crank? Or am I begging for trouble in some way? 

I'm also curious about changing the cassette and rear derailler to a 10 speed set up and leaving the shifters alone. Bad idea?

(Bear in mind that yeah, financially not the smartest route, but I'm looking more at the technical side of things.)

Thanks!


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

You can use the Ultegra crank. Only need to make an adjustment to the front derailleur.

To go to 10 speed, you will need the shifters as well. Tiagra is 9 speed only.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

Not a good compromise.

You'll get more trouble than it's worth. Some setting adjustments could possible get the crank to work out, but in worst-case scenario, you'll continuously drop your chain with the triple shifter. You say you're in no real need for a 3-ring crank, but it's not like you're in need of a 2-ring crank in particular either.

You could change the derailleurs virtually hassle-free, but you'll realize zero benefit. Play around with the cockpit (handlebars and stem) instead of drivetrain.


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## matchmaker (Aug 15, 2009)

You cannot change the cassette and derailleur only. The most important piece are the shifters, as they determine the amount of cable pull, and thus how far the RD is moved from cog to cog.

The crankset change is feasible, but bear in mind that 10 speed cranks are slightly narrower than 9 speed cranks. There are some spacers to spread the chainrings a little so they can take a 9 speed chain. OR, you can use a 10 speed chain, which should still work on the 9 speed cassette, as the inner width of the chain remains the same, only the outer plates are narrower.

Anyway, I would probably advise you not to change too much to your set up. I have gone through a similar upgrading piece by piece process and in the end it costs a lot and it doesn't change much. I changed piece per piece from Tiagra to Ultegra, however I kept the Tiagra groupset and put it on another bike I actually prefer to ride now that my first bike is Ultegra. Go figure!

Tiagra is a really good and functional groupset, shifts really well and the crank and RD are excellent. I do understand your plan to change to a double, that might improve the chain line quite a bit. I would just buy a double Tiagra crankset and sell the triple if I were you. Tiagra/Ultegra mixes will look akward as they are two levels apart. Also have a look at your cassette and wonder whether you have all the cogs you most need. I opted for a 13-25, as the 12 hardly saw any use with a double. I think 9 cogs is enough if you pick the ones you need.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

Ventruck said:


> You'll get more trouble than it's worth. Some setting adjustments could possible get the crank to work out, but in worst-case scenario, you'll continuously drop your chain with the triple shifter. You say you're in no real need for a 3-ring crank, but it's not like you're in need of a 2-ring crank in particular either.



How is the chain going to drop if the front derailleur is setup properly? With the limit screws adjusted properly, it will shift just fine when setup as a double.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

frdfandc said:


> How is the chain going to drop if the front derailleur is setup properly? With the limit screws adjusted properly, it will shift just fine when setup as a double.


Technically, yes, but I'm just pointing out a worst case scenario - which is if the OP can't manage to get it set right.

Bottom line, it's still more trouble than leaving things be to yield almost no benefit.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

My road bike has Ultegra 10-speed shifters and older 105 9-speed everything else (except the chain and cassette.) It works fine - better, actually, than it did with the 105 shifters - and the Ultegra shifters are a lot nicer than the Tiagra ones I have on my 'cross bike.

If you're going to have upgraditis, start with your shifters. You'll need a cassette and chain to match the number of speeds, but the derailleurs should work fine. As others have mentioned, changing derailleur will do very little for how your drivetrain works.

I'd leave the crankset alone unless you're planning on setting this bike up in a racing configuration. Ultegra triple shifters are sometimes cheaper than doubles, and if you later want to switch to a double crank and front derailleur, the triple shifter should do that fine - you'll just lock out the last shift with your FD's high limit screw. (For the sake of disclosure, I haven't done that one myself.) I think two-ring setups are a lot more sensitive to having the right two rings, while a triple generally has the range to cover almost all the ratios a person could want.

I got my road bike before I knew that triples aren't fashionable. While I pretty much only use the middle ring in most of my riding and the big ring sometimes if I'm in a paceline, I've been happy to have that middle ring on a number of occasions. It lets me decide if I want a hill to be a gutbuster or not, and at the end of a long ride or on the way home from one that's supposed to be easy, that's a really nice thing.


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## djtodd (Nov 2, 2010)

*Ok!*

So what I'm parsing from these responses is that I'm better to start upgrade fever from the front and work my way back, and that even if there were absolutely no issues I probably wouldn't notice any difference if I did go my planned route. 

OK, we'll start with new shifters in a few months. 

It's interesting, I'm dropping the 3rd ring because I never use it, If it's not being used, remove it to save a few grams. But I am quite happy with the Tiagra group, it's just that when I go to buy new parts, the price difference isn't a huge leap, so why not buy Ultegra. 

Anyhoo, thanks again!


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## GirchyGirchy (Feb 12, 2004)

Ventruck said:


> Not a good compromise.
> 
> You'll get more trouble than it's worth. Some setting adjustments could possible get the crank to work out, but in worst-case scenario, you'll continuously drop your chain with the triple shifter. You say you're in no real need for a 3-ring crank, but it's not like you're in need of a 2-ring crank in particular either.
> 
> You could change the derailleurs virtually hassle-free, but you'll realize zero benefit. Play around with the cockpit (handlebars and stem) instead of drivetrain.


Having done what the OP is wanting to do, I'll say I never experienced any of these problems. As frdfandc says, as long as the front der is set up properly it'll work just fine. There's nothing magic about it.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

djtodd said:


> It's interesting, I'm dropping the 3rd ring because I never use it, If it's not being used, remove it to save a few grams. But I am quite happy with the Tiagra group, it's just that when I go to buy new parts, the price difference isn't a huge leap, so why not buy Ultegra.


Are you talking about removing the granny ring or the big ring?

I did some poking around a while ago because I was curious about the double vs. triple crankset weight thing. There is a difference, but the crank spider itself actually accounts for quite a lot of it. I think I remember it being more than the weight of the granny ring, but I can't remember what model I was looking at. I decided that I'd rather live with the extra 50g or so from having the small ring if I had to live with the extra weight from having the spider to accept it and the front derailleur to shift to it, and take advantage of having it there on the occasions that I want some really low ratios.

That bike's only a 2010. Have you gotten through all the usual "new bike" upgrades yet? Saddle, maybe a different stem or handlebar, pedals, tires? All those things will have a lot more effect on how it actually rides. For real weight savings, you need to replace the whole crankset, not just remove a ring, but you can probably also save a lot on the wheels, and some OEM seat posts, stems and handlebars are shockingly heavy.


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## djtodd (Nov 2, 2010)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Are you talking about removing the granny ring or the big ring?
> 
> I did some poking around a while ago because I was curious about the double vs. triple crankset weight thing. There is a difference, but the crank spider itself actually accounts for quite a lot of it. I think I remember it being more than the weight of the granny ring, but I can't remember what model I was looking at. I decided that I'd rather live with the extra 50g or so from having the small ring if I had to live with the extra weight from having the spider to accept it and the front derailleur to shift to it, and take advantage of having it there on the occasions that I want some really low ratios.
> 
> That bike's only a 2010. Have you gotten through all the usual "new bike" upgrades yet? Saddle, maybe a different stem or handlebar, pedals, tires? All those things will have a lot more effect on how it actually rides. For real weight savings, you need to replace the whole crankset, not just remove a ring, but you can probably also save a lot on the wheels, and some OEM seat posts, stems and handlebars are shockingly heavy.


Yeah, the granny ring. Oh believe me, I've already done the wheels and the saddle.  The pedals were the first to go. 

In keeping with the advice here, I'm concentrating on the cockpit, and I'm going to replace the stem and bars with carbon. This also helps considering the fact that I have a recent hand injury, and while I can ride, a bit more carbon will probably feel much nicer. 

Mostly it's a mental space thing. There's nothing wrong with the Tiagra group, and I needed someone to remind me of that. 

Upgrades done so far:
Shimano 105 road pedals.
Specialized Roval EL 28 wheelset
Fizik Arione saddle

Next up: Carbon wrap bars, Giant Connect SL carbon stem, and Fizik padded tape. At the same time I'm getting a proper fitting done.

But the biggest upgrade of all? Spinning 4 times a week.


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## Aindreas (Sep 1, 2010)

djtodd said:


> Mostly it's a mental space thing. There's nothing wrong with the Tiagra group, and I needed someone to remind me of that.


I got a defy adv 4 a couple of months ago and originally planned to switch out the Tiagra for 105 or ultegra. My LBS guy laughed at me and said Tiagra is a really good group and that I'd been reading too many Bicycling magazine articles. He was right. I've ridden the snot out of that bike since then and the tiagra has been way better than I thought it would be. Same with the stock giant saddle. Plans to replace it with a Selle Fi'zi:k carbon pro whatever have also been put on indefinite hold.

I've also stopped reading Bicycling magazine articles.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

djtodd said:


> Current bike is a 2010 Giant Defy 2. Comes with a Tiagra groupset, and I'm thinking about an upgrade or two during the off season.
> 
> I'm in no real need of a 3 ring crank, and I was curious about the compatibility. If I leave the shifters and front derailler alone, can I swap out the 3 ring tiagra for a 2 ring ultegra crank? Or am I begging for trouble in some way?
> 
> ...


Upgrading the most expensive component (the shifters) to get one more geat is not money well spent. 9 was good enough for pros just a few years ago, you're fortunate to have 9 on your bike. The upgrade will involve expensive shifters, chain and cassette - all of which you'll need to do at once. Tiagra is decent stuff, so you won't even notice the upgrade after you spent the money for it.

There is no issue with a crank upgrade. 9 and 10 speed Shimano cranks ARE NOT spaced any different. You can use a triple shifter - if set up correctly the granny position becomes your small ring and the old center ring becomes your outer. You can drop a chain on any poorly set up front derailleur - this change is nothing special.

Your best bet for "upgrading" is to sell the bike, or at least the groupo, and get what you want. You are unlikely to be satisfied with a partial Ultegra bike, so why screw around with retail prices on a la carte parts?


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## |3iker (Jan 12, 2010)

If you are upgrading "front to back", you might as well go buy a new bike that's already equipped with Ultegra group. Cheaper in the long run.


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## djtodd (Nov 2, 2010)

Just wanted to do a bit of an update here, as I find that most of the time people ask questions, and then don't post results. 

Just before the end of the season last year I upgraded my wheelset to a Specialized Roval set with nice bladed spokes. They roll nice and are a lot prettier than the stock wheels. 

But the real question was about a gradual upgrade to Ultegra. Over the winter I upgraded the crank (and FD as it was necessary) to the 6700 hollow crank. After riding it a few times I was stunned by how crisply it shifts compared to the Tiagra. Really noticeable. Enough that I began to grumble about riding my Tiagra 'cross bike.

So I just got the bike back from the shop this afternoon. I was able to buy 6700 RD, Brakes, Shifters, and an 11-28 cassette all new on craigslist for a very good price from various people. While it wouldn't have been a worthwhile upgrade from say 105, I feel I got good value and didn't learn a hugely expensive lesson.

It wasn't about getting an extra gear, but the "precision" was worth it. Especially when shifting up from the small ring to the large in the front. I no longer feel like I need to exert a lot of force on the shifter.

Money well spent, I think.


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