# How is Motobecane vs. the big brands?



## cowboy56

Hello folks, I've been lurking in this forum for some time now trying to gain some updated knowledge on the purchase of a new road bike and I will admit, you don't disappoint. You are a very knowledgeable group of riders. My last roadie was a Peugeot U08 back in 1974 but lately I have gotten the bug to get back on another one. I have been riding an old Specialized MTB and it's just too much work for a 6:00 am, 8 mile fitness ride. I'm also aware of the different models that the big 4 manufactures have on the market today. I'm 57 years old and looking for a bike that will allow me to ride for casual fitness and I also plan to ride the RAGBRAI ride across Iowa on my brother in law's team next summer, so I need to start logging some training miles. My budget at this time is around $800. I see plenty of used Trek, Specialized and Cdale on craigslist in the price range. However, they're used bikes and I don't know what problems may surface later on. Several experienced riders on my brother in law's RAGBRAI team ride Motobecanes and swear by them. Does anyone have any experience with this brand through Bikes Direct? Thanks for any input. ~ Mike


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## oldnewbie52

*Very satisfied with my BD experience*

I got a Moto Vent Noir in 2011 and it's exceeded my expectations.
I'm 60 and my last bike was a late 60's Astra 10 speed.
Wasn't sure I'd still be able to handle the aggressive position of a road bike, so I didn't want to spend a boatload of money. 
Did my best to fit myself using online fitting tools and then spent 700 bucks on the Vent Noir. It's nicely equipped for the price: Tiagra front, 105 rear, Vuelta wheelset. BD did a nice job of packaging and it was easy to finish the assembly. Got the derailleurs working smoothly by using internet tutorials. At the time, I couldn't have touched a similarly equipped big-name bike at the LBS's for less then 1200. (albeit that extra cash would have gotten me a real fitting and other benefits that an LBS can provide) Only have a couple of thousand miles on it but it's still running as smooth as the first day. Replaced the cheapo tires with Dunlop 4 Seasons and replaced the saddle this summer. And that's it.
Best of luck whatever route you go.


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## cowboy56

Thank you and that's what I was hoping to hear. I understand the fact that you need to assemble and fit yourself by trial and that's fine too. I'm sure the LBS's don't like to see them, because they didn't sell them but maybe a backyard mechanic could care less. One of my LBS's trashed the hell out of them, which made me concerned about the integrity of his shop. And he is my Trek dealer.


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## oldnewbie52

I did toss around the fact that I would need the services of an LBS and that they would know that I got my bike online.
Felt a little guilty because I always try and ANY items from a local
brick-and-mortar before succumbing to the internet but, in this case, they just couldn't get any where close to the BD price.
I DO make a point of buying accessories and clothing from the LBS's
if prices are comparable, even if I pay a little more sometimes.


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## eickmewg

I bought a BikesDirect titanium mountain bike about a year ago, a Team Fly 29er. The bike has been great. I have replaced a few items, such as the saddle and the seat post clamp, which were functional but not very high quality. The frame has be fine and the SRAM components (XO) have performed well. I did the assembly myself which took a couple of hours going slowly. I would check some of the basic assembly. The bottom bracket threads had no grease and the head set needed more lubrication. The derailleur hanger screws were loose. My experience has been very positive and the price was certainly good. I would personally consider getting a road bike from them.


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## pmf

Motobecane doesn't exist as a company anymore. Its just a name that Bikes Direct put on their frames that they contract to have made in China. The factory that makes these frames for Bikes Direct probably also makes bikes for big brand names, so you're getting a decent frame. Their prices are hard to beat. Often, I see bikes where the cost of just the components exceeds what Bikes Direct is selling the entire bike for. You won't find a LBS that can compete price wise with them. 

I still think a used bike is probably the better deal if you can find one you like.


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## Randy99CL

Search on Motobecane; there are tons of threads about them. Most people agree that they are good bikes for the money.

The real problem is getting the right size. Since you haven't been riding a road bike even if you were to try a bike and decide it was comfortable you really don't know which parts of the "fit" are important. Then as you get used to the road position you will probably need to adjust things later as you get more flexible.
It is worth it to take the bike to a good dealer and pay for a fitting.

You're lucky that you have your brother's experienced friends to help you. Ask to try some of their bikes for sizing and ask for their advice.

Put some thought into geometry; the two most common types of road bikes are the racers and the comfort/endurance bikes.
The racers are made for speed and efficiency with sharp (twitchy) handling and can be rougher riding. 
The comfort frames are generally more stable with a more relaxed and less-harsh ride and often allow a more upright position that's easier for a beginner or older fart like me.


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## junior1210

cowboy56 said:


> Thank you and that's what I was hoping to hear. I understand the fact that you need to assemble and fit yourself by trial and that's fine too. I'm sure the LBS's don't like to see them, because they didn't sell them but maybe a backyard mechanic could care less. One of my LBS's trashed the hell out of them, which made me concerned about the integrity of his shop. And he is my Trek dealer.


Not surprised seeing as you were discussing with him his competition. Since he's a Trek dealer, he may well have said the same about Specialized, Felt, and Oreba too. Money you spend with BikesDirect is money you're not giving him.
I have one of their 29ers and it's been a great bike, and plan to ride it for a long time to come. Don't feel bad if you decide to buy one though, you're spending money to get a bike to ride, not spending money to keep LBS's in business. It's great to help the local economy, but what good is it if you don't get what you want and need? I see buying from BD like buying a used bike. It's a straight up transaction (short of a manufacturing defect) and so once the money changes hands the deal is done and you're on your own. If you need the services of a LBS, they will charge you the same no matter if it is a Motobecane or Mcipollini, if you didn't buy it from them.


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## JGSnCA

My main bike is a Trek Domane 5.2 but I have this bike from BD as a back-up and to ride with friends who don't have a roadie.

Save up to 60% off new Hybrid Bicycles | Road Bikes Cafe Century PRO

It's a great bike, good components, fits well and is VERY comfortable. I would buy from BD with no hesitation.


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## GiddyHitch

Another Motobecane 29er owner here and it's been a great bike for going on four years at 50% of the cost of a big name bike. The BD stuff tends to have (somewhat) outdated frame designs and a hodge-podge of non-drivetrain components, but it all works if built up correctly and should serve you for many miles, especially on a roadie. That being said, a newbie is better off buying from a good LBS if they can afford it, for both a proper sizing/fitting (which can involve component swaps) and tune-ups/warranty work. But that's not always in the budget, so hit up your BIL and his team to figure out sizing if you can't stretch your budget to get there.

The Moto Gran Premio in orange looks killer!

But something like a Trek 1.1 or Specialized Allez fits your budget as well.


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## RaptorTC

I got a Bikes Direct bike (Gravity Liberty X) last year and the bike itself has been great to me. I've put her through 5,600 miles since I got it and its holding up just fine. At $600 with Sram Apex it just couldn't be beat for my first road bike.

I've had a few issues, but nothing major. I bent the stock chainring after a few months so I ended up grabbing a cheap Tiagra crankset for a song on eBay. Also had some issues with the stock wheels breaking spokes as did a friend of mine with the same bike. 

I have managed to bend the rear triangle a bit so its not perfectly square anymore, but still perfectly rideable. This happened when I laid it down at 25 going through a corner in a crit. Can't really blame the bike for that one. 

I also got the frame media blasted to get rid of the red paint job and Gravity logos that were all over it. Much happier with the way it looks now.


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## KINBOY

oldnewbie52 said:


> I did toss around the fact that I would need the services of an LBS and that they would know that I got my bike online.
> Felt a little guilty because I always try and ANY items from a local
> brick-and-mortar before succumbing to the internet but, in this case, they just couldn't get any where close to the BD price.
> I DO make a point of buying accessories and clothing from the LBS's
> if prices are comparable, even if I pay a little more sometimes.


I get it but my LBS knows that if I can get a great deal, I will buy online. That said, they know that I am really into the sport and get others into the sport. I refer business there that exceeds what I would spend by at least 3-4 times. They are not jerks. They know that is the reality. They don't survive off the 10% of us that are serious, they survive off of the 90% that are not. 
From a business stand point, I would rather the referrals and emergency (and small stuff like tubes) from my serious customers.


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## Buckeye Jim

I have the Champion SL, I think its a 2010 model. Almost 20,000 miles with no trouble at all. Gets lots of compliments, I removed the decals, folks think its a Linsky.


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## dnice

the gravity frame is the previous generation giant defy, which was highly acclaimed. a good frame, but bikesdirect change the forks, depending on th model this will affect handling and weight significantly.

you need to know your ideal geometry though.

as far as the bike shop's feelings: they know the drill, they'll charge you to assemble it, and you'll spend lots more upgrading and fueling your activity as you spend more time on the bike.


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## pushstart

I bought a Le Champion CF frame set fro BD. It has been fantastic. A coworker bought the Motobecane Apex-level road bike and loves it. I would have no hesitation buying anything from them.

I don't know about the other Motobecane frames, but mine had a "Made in Taiwan" sticker (not China). Of course good frames are made in China too, but I don't think these are just the open-mould frames you see for sale on eBay, etc.


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## Lesscan

pushstart said:


> I don't know about the other Motobecane frames, but mine had a "Made in Taiwan" sticker (not China).


Because Taiwan is a Province of China.
Thats like something thats made in Puerto Rico saying its "Made in the USA"


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## pushstart

Lesscan said:


> Because Taiwan is a Province of China.
> Thats like something thats made in Puerto Rico saying its "Made in the USA"


My point was that "made in Taiwan" for bicycle components is viewed as distinct and superior to "made in China". Some have suggested that superior grade Japanese CF is available in Taiwan (implication being that it is not readily available to mainland factories). I have no idea. But Taiwan has a very distinct economy from the PRC.

(I realize that Taiwan is considered a province of China by the PRC; however, Taiwan, or more correctly the ROC, claims to be a sovereign nation. This is probably more analogous to Serbia and Kosovo than the USA and Puerto Rico.)


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## mpre53

Lesscan said:


> Because Taiwan is a Province of China.
> Thats like something thats made in Puerto Rico saying its "Made in the USA"


Depends on who you talk to. To the PRC it's a breakaway province. The Taiwan government would beg to differ. :wink:


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## Lesscan

pushstart said:


> My point was that "made in Taiwan" for bicycle components is viewed as distinct and superior to "made in China". Some have suggested that superior grade Japanese CF is available in Taiwan (implication being that it is not readily available to mainland factories). I have no idea. But Taiwan has a very distinct economy from the PRC.
> 
> (I realize that Taiwan is considered a province of China by the PRC; however, Taiwan, or more correctly the ROC, claims to be a sovereign nation. This is probably more analogous to Serbia and Kosovo than the USA and Puerto Rico.)



IDK about you, but when I see made in Taiwan, TO ME that means made in China. And better yet... NOT made in the USA!



mpre53 said:


> Depends on who you talk to. To the PRC it's a breakaway province. The Taiwan government would beg to differ. :wink:


Refer to my above comment.


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## pushstart

Lesscan said:


> IDK about you, but when I see made in Taiwan, TO ME that means made in China. And better yet... NOT made in the USA!


So, pretending that Taiwan and and China are the same really does not provide any insight into the manufacturing of bicycles or help further the discussion of Motobecane quality specifically. Taiwan and the PRC are really only the same in that they're both in Asia have some common history and language and are located near each other. That is like saying that the US and Canada are the same country (though they are probably more similar than the PRC and Taiwan).

More to the point here, there are different labor laws and environmental standards, so it's not fair to equate the impact that a factory has in Taiwan to that of one in China. Even more to the point here, though, it's not helpful to lump all the factories together in Taiwan -- *or* in China. Obviously companies like Giant, Surly, etc. have (or claim to have) relationships with high-quality Taiwanese factories. There are certainly low-quality factories too. Same is true, of course, in China. I know that excellent-quality work happens in China (my Habanero ti frame is a great example of that), but I'm sure there are also factories that will cut corners to deliver lower cost items.

But this thread is about the value of Motobecane vs. big-name brands. For a variety of reasons (economy, and some claim quality) frames from big name brands aren't built in the USA. I think it would be fair to say that Motobecane being built in Taiwan is probably on par with the majority of big-name brands also being built in Taiwan. It would also be relevant to note which factories are being used here -- and what that implies for the quality of the product or the quality of life for those doing the work. I think anecdotal evidence is that Motobecane frame quality is on par with quality one would expect from a big-name brand. The BD bikes tend to get very positive reviews; generally the weak points are component choices (e.g. old model year groups, cheaper wheels), etc.

I think it's great to care about how (and where) things are made, but I don't think it's useful for bicycles to just lump everything made outside the USA together and imply that it's somehow inferior to USA-made products. ... That's pretty much the entire bicycle market.


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## TomH

pushstart said:


> I bought a Le Champion CF frame set fro BD. It has been fantastic. A coworker bought the Motobecane Apex-level road bike and loves it. I would have no hesitation buying anything from them.
> 
> I don't know about the other Motobecane frames, but mine had a "Made in Taiwan" sticker (not China). Of course good frames are made in China too, but I don't think these are just the open-mould frames you see for sale on eBay, etc.


They're definitely the run-of-the-mill frames for sale everywhere... but thats not really a bad thing. I think its fair to say that stuff has proven itself by now.

A LOT of motobecanes lineup is stuff like a sora-level bike sold with a 105 rear derailleur and called a "105" bike. The overall build is very much lower quality that a big brand "105" level bike. Its definitely cheaper, but you are getting less for spending less. 

As you go up in price on moto stuff, you get some flashier parts and still a bike with some junky sora-level stuff on it. 

For example, their 105-level bike is $899 bucks. Its got some good parts on it, but at the same time my giant OCR1 brand new from the LBS (last year model, on sale) was $850 out the door with all 105 stuff. My bike has better parts on it overall. 

Theyre still a decent deal, but its nothing phenomenal and very easily not a better deal than what you can find locally. Those "$699" wheels they're offering for an upgrade on many of their bikes are worth about 100 bucks.


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## Lesscan

pushstart said:


> So, pretending that Taiwan and and China are the same really does not provide any insight into the manufacturing of bicycles or help further the discussion of Motobecane quality specifically.



You asked why they say Made in Taiwan when they are supposedly made in China.
I believe I answered that question, but apparently not to your liking.
Regardless, Taiwan is a Province. Whether a breakaway or imprisoned or liberated or whatever, it really doesnt matter.
Im not sure anyone buying a made in China/Taiwan/Mars non USA bike really cares.

If YOU do, then great. I dont. I couldnt care less what China calls Taiwan or what their government thinks about themselves.
It has nothing to do with me buying a bike and ultimately that what this is .... a BIKE forum, not a social and political history lesson forum.


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## pushstart

Lesscan said:


> You asked why they say Made in Taiwan when they are supposedly made in China.
> I believe I answered that question, but apparently not to your liking.
> Regardless, Taiwan is a Province. Whether a breakaway or imprisoned or liberated or whatever, it really doesnt matter.


No, I did not ask that. My point was they they are /not/ all made in China; some are made in Taiwan. I wasn't trying to reconcile some "fact" about them being made in China with a "made in Taiwan" sticker.

It is obviously futile to try to convince you that Taiwan and China are not the same, so I won't bother. I am racking my brain trying to think of another liberated/independent set of provinces that might have taken offense at having their distinction denied ... maybe a couple hundred years ago ... yeah, nothing is coming to mind.

Yes, this is about bicycles. Where bikes are made matters to some people (like you, obviously), which is why this is relevant when talking about Motobecane. Of course, for the lucky folk whose globe has been simplified to two countries -- "USA" and "NotUSA" --, I imagine this conversation does seem a little pointless.


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## headloss

Lesscan said:


> IDK about you, but when I see made in Taiwan, TO ME that means made in China. And better yet... NOT made in the USA!


You're entitled to your opinion, regardless of how ignorant it is. You should go research the quality of bikes made in Taiwan before opening your mouth.

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/sites/default/files/downloads/resource/Factory_10_1_11.pdf

inrng : who made your bike

http://cyclingiq.com/vertical-limit/


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## Lesscan

Post Deleted


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## pushstart

headloss said:


> http://www.bicycleretailer.com/sites/default/files/downloads/resource/Factory_10_1_11.pdf
> 
> inrng : who made your bike
> 
> http://cyclingiq.com/vertical-limit/


Good reads - thanks for posting. I will start reading the full vertical-limit series when rocking the baby back to sleep at 3am


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## headloss

pushstart said:


> Good reads - thanks for posting. I will start reading the full vertical-limit series when rocking the baby back to sleep at 3am


Truth be told, I used to sound just like Lesscan until someone schooled me. LOL I love American-made bikes, I have two of them. Taiwanese made bikes are definitely good quality, and also happens to be where most bikes on the market are being made (including all of the mainstream American-ish brands e.g. Trek, Specialized, Cannondale, Raleigh, etc. as seen in the first link). 

The Taiwanese specialized in frame building, the big companies invested on the infrastructure there, the workers got a lot of practice. Once upon a time, Japan was frowned upon in the same way... now you are lucky if you can find a bicycle frame or a camera built in Japan. It's basic economics, it gets cheaper to move production elsewhere (Malaysia, Vietnam, China) and then Taiwan and Japan move upscale. 

You see it across the board, the same tactics... take blank dvd-r's for example, there are only a handful of factories making all of them and yet there are hundreds of different branded products at the store. In reality companies like Apple and Sony are selling the same thing with a different label. The good DVD-R's first came from Japan, then production moved to Taiwan... now most of them are coming out of India. Pick a product, you'll find similar trends. The vertical-limit article really lays it out well and is specific to bikes, which is a bonus. 

Personally, if I'm buying a _mass produced_ steel or aluminum tig welded bike, Taiwan is now my first choice. I feel sorry for anyone who can't distinguish between Taiwan and China considering how much effort, time, and money the US military has put into protecting the independent government in Taiwan. I can't help but wonder if Lesscan is confusing Taiwan with HongKong? That said, I'd still rather buy an American made Lynskey/Waterford/Rivendell/Seven/Independent or something... if budget allows. 

While Chinese-made is what I avoid, I've actually heard that the best carbon bikes are coming out of there... that's a reasonable statement if the major companies are investing in lots of the latest technology and equipment and that is where they are building the factories. We shouldn't judge a product on the country of origin, so much as which country is getting the most financial investment, has the most modern and up-to-date equipment for producing a given product. 

Unfortunately, that's not always easy to determine for the end consumer. It's all further complicated by value-added... you'll hear the term VAT or value added tax thrown around. It has to do with what percentage of the end product is manufactured in a given country... and that is what determines which country-of-origin sticker goes on the final product.

More confusion is added by stickers such as "Assembled in the USA of imported components" or "Designed in the USA" or "HandMade in the USA." All of which are incredibly vague.

Anywho... yeah, great links! Don't forget to bookmark them. The vertical-limit article is a must read for anyone trying to understand the business model of bikes-direct, REI's Novara, Ribble (UK), or any other housebrand bicycle.


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## headloss

Lesscan said:


> *But I dont care!* And now I care even less because of your attitudes.
> Its good to know that a simple bike conversation can be turned into a personal attack.
> Thanks for *expressing your points so maturely* even in the face of someone who doesnt agree with you nor cares about political semantics.
> 
> Good day "gentlemen"
> 
> I wont be responding so if you really need to have the last word... have at it!


Personal attack? Dude, you see what you want to see. Sorry to bother you, I didn't know that I needed to wear kid's gloves when I talk to other adults on this forum. Welcome to the internet, and all that. But really, I have no interest in attacking you or anyone else here. We are all here to help, the sarcasm and bluntness are included at no charge. I give it, and I take it. I suppose I don't like when other's give me the attitude either... but you and I are just the sensitive type, I guess.

BTW, when did I talk about politics? You should read those links and educate yourself... I took the time to dig them up as a courtesy to YOU!!! I'm talking about bikes, manufacturing, trade, and economics. Politics? Not so much. *shrugs*


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## TomH

The only reason NOT to buy an asian frame is for social reasons, or political reasons. Which is fine, you can feel however you want to feel about those topics. 

In terms of just flat out sheer quality, this argument is pretty dead by now. The Taiwanese and Chinese stuff has proven itself many times over by now. Its as good, or even better than US made stuff.


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## Guest

In 09 i decided to buy a touring bike and wanted something made in America or at least partly made in America. So in my shopping i noticed that Surly.com was proudly waving the American flag. i looked at the bikes and bought the Surly long haul Trucker. A few weeks later i was cleaning the bike and i noticed that on the bottom it said "made in Taiwan". So i did some research and learned that Surly sold out at some point and my bike was a product of the new deal. it is a good bike. However i wanted a lighter bike later on so this time i had a frame custom built for me in Santa ynex, Calif. Anyway it is made from italian tubing and made in America. The components are shimano 105. Anyway my son bouhg t a motobecane from bikes direct and the bike has been fine. he just recently upgraded to a Cannondale Cadd10 but still has the motobecane. he said the only thing he does not like about the motobecane is that the front end shimmy's on high speed descents. It did cause him to descend at a slower rate. The reason i say the bike was fine because my Eisentraut from the 70's shimmied, My Specialized Allez from the 80's pulled to the right and my Surly had a floating front end feeling. So until my current custom bike which is a lighthouse sequoia i have never owned a bike that worked well in the front end. The lighthouse is my last bike as i am 66y/o. The bike being Columbus Steel and being great will last for decades so i am finsihed buying road bikes. i might buy some other kind of bike maybe. i would like a cool city bike but a lighthouse city bike would be expensive. Just thinking about it. no more off the rack bikes with poor fitting and front end problems for me.

Oh, my LBS will not even speak to me because i would not buy a bike from them using the ride in the parking lot fitting program. When i asked them about a fitting program they said they did not offer one because it took to much time. They felt that standing over the bike and a ride in the parking lot was all that was needed. They selll Specialized anyway and I have not forgot about my Allez that pulled to the right for 11 years. When i bought it Specialized refused to warranty the frame and said i should expect poor alignment with a production frame.


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## headloss

Surly never manufactured bicycles in the USA, but they are based here. A lot of their assembly is done here. They build wheels here. All the parts are coming from overseas. My Trek 520 was "built" in the USA, it also happens to be one of the last frames welded together in WI. The fork (spinner) and all of the (original) components are imported. It's par for the course. You want an American made frame, you aren't going to a large volume builder.



lighthouse54.1 said:


> Oh, my LBS will not even speak to me because i would not buy a bike from them using the ride in the parking lot fitting program. When i asked them about a fitting program they said they did not offer one because it took to much time. They felt that standing over the bike and a ride in the parking lot was all that was needed.


That is an LBS not worth supporting. No reason to turn their nose to competitors bikes, from what I understand, most profit comes from accessories anyways. Personally, I won't buy a bike from a shop unwilling to swap out stems for a test ride. I might be lucky, in that I know shops that will go to that extent to satisfy a customer.


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## Guest

Not sure about the Surly. The website had a made in USA flag when i was shopping. But the bike is made in Taiwan. Still wherever it came from it's a solid bike with some handling problems. My youngest son took it over last january. 

My LBS is the only shop in the county but I do not really shop there. The owner is cranky and the prices are high. I was buying some Co2 cartridges there but I discovered that amazon sells them for a buck and that immediately changed how I buy those. I just ordered up a box of 30. 

Currently I own 2 bikes. A Cannondale M500 that I ride to work. I bought it over 20 years ago and it has an American Flag decal on it. I also have my new bike the Lighthouse made in Santa Ynez Ca. Components are 105. I think 105 is made in Japan but I am not sure about that. I build my own wheels and I went with Mavic open pro, DT spokes. But I am not an anti Chinese shopper or anything. Most of the stuff I buy in the world is made in China.

If I needed a new frame I would buy another Lighthouse.


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## Alfonsina

Buckeye Jim said:


> I have the Champion SL, I think its a 2010 model. Almost 20,000 miles with no trouble at all. Gets lots of compliments, I removed the decals, folks think its a Linsky.


 What method did you use for the decal removal? I want to do this over winter but I am suffering paralysis of analysis. Thanks!


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## pushstart

Alfonsina said:


> What method did you use for the decal removal? I want to do this over winter but I am suffering paralysis of analysis. Thanks!


If the Motobecane is similar to Habanero and the decals are not under clearcoat, then it works to just use a hairdryer and old credit card (or some hard plastic) to scrape them off. A little googone or citrus degreaser at the end to remove sticky residue. That's what I did. 

If they are under clearcoat, then my suggestion is probably useless


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## pmf

I've got a Litespeed I want to do this too. There's no clear coat on the bike. I was told Goo Gone works well. Th eframe is older (1999)so I worry trhat the metal exposed that was under the decals for all these years will look a little different because it didin't oxidize any. So even without the decals, there will still be a shadow of the decal. Is there a metal polish that would clear that up?

My other alternative is to buy a new set of decals, but that kinda scares me. One little mistake and it looks terrible.


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## pushstart

Yeah, that is a valid concern. I removed my Habanero downtube decals immediately upon receipt but even then could see the outline for awhile -- eventually it evened out. So that could definitely be an issue with an older frame. But yeah, goo gone works well for the residue, but I found I needed heat to remove them initially.


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## Lesscan

OK, wait! Why are we removing decals?


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## Alfonsina

I love the bare TI look, it looks really classic. I will try the hairdryer trick, thanks! there is no clear coat for sure.


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## Trek_5200

cowboy56 said:


> Hello folks, I've been lurking in this forum for some time now trying to gain some updated knowledge on the purchase of a new road bike and I will admit, you don't disappoint. You are a very knowledgeable group of riders. My last roadie was a Peugeot U08 back in 1974 but lately I have gotten the bug to get back on another one. I have been riding an old Specialized MTB and it's just too much work for a 6:00 am, 8 mile fitness ride. I'm also aware of the different models that the big 4 manufactures have on the market today. I'm 57 years old and looking for a bike that will allow me to ride for casual fitness and I also plan to ride the RAGBRAI ride across Iowa on my brother in law's team next summer, so I need to start logging some training miles. My budget at this time is around $800. I see plenty of used Trek, Specialized and Cdale on craigslist in the price range. However, they're used bikes and I don't know what problems may surface later on. Several experienced riders on my brother in law's RAGBRAI team ride Motobecanes and swear by them. Does anyone have any experience with this brand through Bikes Direct? Thanks for any input. ~ Mike



Know someone with a Ti road bike Motobecane, and asked him this question. He rides a fair amount. The reply back was that it's a good bike, but not in the same league as what could be purchased from Moot, Seven or previously Serotta. Ignoring price, which is always hard to do, nobody would ever buy these bikes on pure quality and build alone.


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## junior1210

Trek_5200 said:


> Know someone with a Ti road bike Motobecane, and asked him this question. He rides a fair amount. The reply back was that it's a good bike, but not in the same league as what could be purchased from Moot, Seven or previously Serotta. Ignoring price, which is always hard to do, nobody would ever buy these bikes on pure quality and build alone.


You're right, but you could say the same for just about any brand. If you could ignore price, how many would buy a Trek 1.1 instead of a Madone or a Domane? The attraction, IMHO, is getting a Ti frame at mid-level Al/steel prices.


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## Trek_5200

junior1210 said:


> You're right, but you could say the same for just about any brand. If you could ignore price, how many would buy a Trek 1.1 instead of a Madone or a Domane? The attraction, IMHO, is getting a Ti frame at mid-level Al/steel prices.



Well yea, but you're kind of building a strawman argument by making that leap. Motobecane is basically a purchased brand name slapped on top of generic sourced china made bike with brand name group-set thrown in.

The better argument might be that many of the branded bicycles are basically buying frames from the same factories and adding their paint scheme.


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## Lesscan

Trek_5200 said:


> The better argument might be that many of the branded bicycles are basically buying frames from the same factories and adding their paint scheme.


This is more like it. The better the components, the better the bike.
Unless youre doing some serious jump off the side of the mountain biking or racing the Tour de France, the frame is not as important as the components are.

Most frames are created equal in each category and some even created in the same factory, until you get up to the $$K bikes.


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## junior1210

Trek_5200 said:


> Well yea, but you're kind of building a strawman argument by making that leap. Motobecane is basically a purchased brand name slapped on top of generic sourced china made bike with brand name group-set thrown in.
> 
> The better argument might be that many of the branded bicycles are basically buying frames from the same factories and adding their paint scheme.


I'll agree on the whole but I will quibble on the 'generic' label for their Ti frames, as they're built by Ora Engineering ( Ora Engineering Co., Ltd..- Taiwan BikeFrame, bicycle pedalon imb2b.com ). While not exactly mainstream, they do quality work (not Moots level, but Moots is on top for a reason). I'm inclined to believe there is a large market for these types of frames as Lynskey just got into this level of the market just last year, as well as Habenero (who as you know have been around quite some time).


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## gowcheco

Hope this reply isnt too late. Ive had lots of road bikes in the years i have been riding from bargain carbon, aluminum,a trek aluminum-carbon stays, to a cervelo s2. The smoothest riding, funnest and i might even say best value of all is my new motobecane gran premio comp equipped with shimano 105. Rides great, wont break the bank and will withstand a crash no problem. Compact crank and wide greaing will let you spin up anything, and did i mention its beautiful.


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## Torelli4

Gowcheco, just curious: what was the weight of your Gran Premio out of the box? Thanks.


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## GarzaAlfredo

I second Torelli4 request.

I'm in the lookup to get a serious mean road bike, requirement is it will have to be good quality Steel or Titanium.
In 2011 Motobecane used to sell the Gran Premio Pro which had Reynolds of above grade as the 520 offered on the GP Comp. A shame it dissapeared.

I'm expecting to order a Le Champion SL Ti as soon as they restock, but the doubt still remains is how much does the GP Comp weights? At first sight the bike does not make you awe as compared to watching the Ora engineering Ti bare metal frame, but the model I might buy costs $2,200 USD against the $800 USD of the GP Comp, so any feedback on that bike is appreciated.

I will use mainly the bike for long distances.


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## headloss

gowcheco said:


> Hope this reply isnt too late. Ive had lots of road bikes in the years i have been riding from bargain carbon, aluminum,a trek aluminum-carbon stays, to a cervelo s2. The smoothest riding, funnest and i might even say best value of all is my new motobecane gran premio comp equipped with shimano 105. Rides great, wont break the bank and will withstand a crash no problem. Compact crank and wide greaing will let you spin up anything, and did i mention its beautiful.


It's amazing how many single post members only come here to praise bikesdirect... definitely the most popular brand with single post members! Crazy coincidence...


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## junior1210

Shills not withstanding, I think their bikes are great for what they are. That caveat is important, in that, most of the frame designs are a little dated, but let's face it, most riders who are seriously considering these bikes don't need or aren't interested in the newest designs. Even the lower level bikes are certainly capable for most types of riding short of racing IMO.


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## gowcheco

Torelli4 said:


> Gowcheco, just curious: what was the weight of your Gran Premio out of the box? Thanks.


I rode to LBS this afternoon and with one bottle cage and crank bros candy pedals it tipped the scale at 21 pounds. Dont let that scare you it rides great and gears gets you up anything. And my frame is a 51 sloping.


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## headloss

junior1210 said:


> Shills not withstanding, I think their bikes are great for what they are. That caveat is important, in that, most of the frame designs are a little dated, but let's face it, most riders who are seriously considering these bikes don't need or aren't interested in the newest designs. Even the lower level bikes are certainly capable for most types of riding short of racing IMO.


No doubt... there aren't many $400 road bikes in the world outside of a company like BD. Hybrids and MTB, there are options... roadbikes, it's a bit harder to find anything in the BD price range. They are definitely a fit for a particular and needed market segment. Shills not withstanding.  

FWIW, to the shills, I had more respect for the company before seeing all the false reviews that pop up on here. Just let the product speak for itself and stop chasing people away from the brand due to bs. I've never seen a bad BD review (I'm sure they are out there if I search, but they certainly aren't common). Fake positive reviews are ridiculously common and make it hard to take the product seriously. Seriously...


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## jwalther

headloss said:


> No doubt... there aren't many $400 road bikes in the world outside of a company like BD. Hybrids and MTB, there are options... roadbikes, it's a bit harder to find anything in the BD price range. They are definitely a fit for a particular and needed market segment. Shills not withstanding.
> 
> FWIW, to the shills, I had more respect for the company before seeing all the false reviews that pop up on here. Just let the product speak for itself and stop chasing people away from the brand due to bs. I've never seen a bad BD review (I'm sure they are out there if I search, but they certainly aren't common). Fake positive reviews are ridiculously common and make it hard to take the product seriously. Seriously...


I read a lot on this forum and other about BD "shills." I'm curious whether anyone has actually been outed as such, or whether the charge is simply speculation. Isn't it also possible that BD customers are on the whole, less informed and therefore less critical of their purchase? Frankly, I put myself in that category. Returning to the sport after a twenty plus year absence, I was looking for a good bang for the buck road bike, which by most objective accounts, BD provides. My bike performs very well, to my admittedly less than exacting standards. I pedal; the bike moves. I pedal harder; the bike moves faster. Maybe if I spent hours obsessing over and dollars spent on potential component upgrades to make my bike a little bit lighter, or a little sportier, I would be more critical. Personally, I'd rather spend my time and money on other pursuits. I suspect all this makes me a typical BD customer, but not typical of the population of the forum as a whole.


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## Trek_5200

jwalther said:


> I read a lot on this forum and other about BD "shills." I'm curious whether anyone has actually been outed as such, or whether the charge is simply speculation. Isn't it also possible that BD customers are on the whole, less informed and therefore less critical of their purchase? Frankly, I put myself in that category. Returning to the sport after a twenty plus year absence, I was looking for a good bang for the buck road bike, which by most objective accounts, BD provides. My bike performs very well, to my admittedly less than exacting standards. I pedal; the bike moves. I pedal harder; the bike moves faster. Maybe if I spent hours obsessing over and dollars spent on potential component upgrades to make my bike a little bit lighter, or a little sportier, I would be more critical. Personally, I'd rather spend my time and money on other pursuits. I suspect all this makes me a typical BD customer, but not typical of the population of the forum as a whole.



Lots of companies engage in this sort of thing, I doubt Bikes Direct is an exception and I believe they get more of their sales generated by this sort of activity than other retailers.


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## Trek_5200

In my limited experience base on the half dozen people I know personally who have purchase bikes direct. For the most part they are satisfied, but in no way believe their bikes are as good as the the more traditional expensive brands. They bought purely based on price and the fact they got brand name components such as Shimano or SRAM. Most had some issue with the bike when it arrived, but nothing that couldn't be fixed/resolved, and with the exception of one, none are serious hard core riders who use the bike on a regular basis.


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## headloss

@jwalther, it's speculation seeing as no one who does this is going to admit to it. 

Kind of odd that a first post from anyone is to praise BD and then with one or two more additional posts (at the absolute most) they poster disappears into obscurity. They never contribute in any other threads, talk about any other bikes, or ask any questions... Do you honestly think anyone is going to set up an account just to let everyone know how awesome their BD bike is, without being paid/encouraged to do so?

Please note, I haven't come right out and called anyone a shill, specifically... it's possible that someone's first/second post could be an out of nowhere positive review and then they go on to be active members and beat the stereotype. However, most (all?) of the posts fitting this description post once or twice and are never heard from again.

It is a common practice. You see it a lot with Amazon reviews where some product (always some generic brand of far-East origin) will have six or seven positive reviews all giving five stars. Yet, when you look at each reviewer's history, they have only reviewed that product (and two or three at the absolute most, presumably in an attempt to cover their tracks). A legit Amazon reviewer will have 10, 20, 30+ reviews. That's not to say that there won't be one-or-two-review reviewers, but you aren't going to have that across the board for seven or eight reviews of the same product (almost all in broken English to boot... which is suspicious as well, seeing as Amazon has independent sites across the globe). So, it's not just this site and the pattern is similar.


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## Alfonsina

IME of a BD entry bike in the 1200 mark (kestrel) and the SL TI in the 2K mark, that I got a lot of bike for my buck. I wonder why BD don't have reviews on their own site? I think the higher end bikes would have overwhelmingly positive reviews. I dunno about the cheaper end though. I believe that BD is great if you can work on your bike yourself or have access to someone who will do that. If you are a dumb chick like me, who wants to take it out of the box and ride it and have everything to be perfect, BD is not for you (luckily I have someone here who fixes ****). 
The real issue here though is that we are not discussing brands or manufacturers or build or anything so tangible, we are discussing the retail model, which some people don't like. People who would happily buy components and kit at the lowest $ but somehow see this anathema when applied to the actual bike. I suppose I don't get it. When I buy my next car, it will be online so I don't have to deal with patronizing idiots.


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## WaynefromOrlando

I've been riding my Motobecane Immortal Pro since 2011 and have completed a number of Century rides, a Gran Fondo, a dozen or so triathlons and many, many miles of roads in central FL, the DC area and now northern Alabama. I find that the bike is the equal of bikes that cost much more and has been reliable, competitive and an enjoyable bike to ride with or without comparing it to other bikes.

I also have the Motobecane Jubilee Deluxe that I used to use for commuting (can't get there from my current apt but that will change next year) and that bike is bullet-proof. 

To me, I got a lot of bike for my money in both purchases and I have ridden the paint off of them over the years. The frame for my Immortal is older that the current big name rides, but I have not found that to be the limiting factor in how fast or long I can go. It all comes down the engine really, a different bike would not result in a faster century if the components were better or the frame newer. I replaced the FSA crank with a 105 so my bike is nearly all 105/ultegra now and I don't believe that an all ultegra or dura ace component mix would change anything. Neither would SRAM gear.

I don't really care what the sticker on my bike says, its the riding that matters. Motobecane bikes roll the same as other manufacturer bikes do, and so long as I am satisfied, that's all that matters. I will complete at least 3 century rides this year on my Immortal, but I am getting a new Tri bike sometime this summer. Motobecane does not make a carbon frame high end tri bicycle, so I am looking at Kestrel and Quintana Roo right now. The bundle at Nitro Multisport is hard to resist, a whole tri setup for $1,999 is tempting.


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## hockey

I have purchased 3 bikes from Bikes Direct. I still ride a Trek as well, but absolutely pleased with the purchase of these bikes. My CF Le Champion, with complete Rival for 1299., Mavic Aksium and the Taiwanese frame.......good deal in my book. Just google the price for a full groupset of Rival and you will get the point.


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## vmps

People pushing bikes direct almost always start taking about the group, and about how the frame doesn't matter. I find that strange, since you're touching the frame the whole time you're on the bike, and really only interact with the group when changing gears. For myself, I value how a frame feels far more than I value the consumable parts of the bike. I suppose it's hard to test ride an online bike, but easy to quote group levels.


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## Trek_5200

I'd like to see a Tour De France or Giro D'Italia won by bikes direct.


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## pushstart

The frames are just fine. For my previous bike I bought just the frame (LeChampion CF); that is a great frame. It is not the lightest carbon frame by any stretch, but it was plenty stiff and the build quality was excellent.

There is, of course, absolutely no reason a grand tour couldn't be won on a Motobecane/BD frame. Except that they couldn't afford to sponsor a team.


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## Alfonsina

Trek_5200 said:


> I'd like to see a Tour De France or Giro D'Italia won by bikes direct.


 The irony LOL.


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## ellisjte

gowcheco said:


> Hope this reply isnt too late. Ive had lots of road bikes in the years i have been riding from bargain carbon, aluminum,a trek aluminum-carbon stays, to a cervelo s2. The smoothest riding, funnest and i might even say best value of all is my new motobecane gran premio comp equipped with shimano 105. Rides great, wont break the bank and will withstand a crash no problem. Compact crank and wide greaing will let you spin up anything, and did i mention its beautiful.


I just bought this bike from the BD store in Orlando (Cycle Spectrum), they didn't have it in stock but they ordered it for me. (It should be here today!) I was a little shaky on ordering from BD, but after I went up there and checked the bikes out in person I felt pretty good about it, and Frank, the manager said it wouldn't be an issue to return or refund if I wasn't happy once it arrived. I'm pretty excited about this bike, I've been doing 40 and 60 mile rides on a Specialized Crosstrail... It'll be nice to have a road bike I think. After I've gotten a good ride in I'll post again.

This is my 1st post, not a shill, just a lurker... =)


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## WaynefromOrlando

I bought my bikes from Frank, a nicer bike dude cannot be found!


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## junior1210

vmps said:


> People pushing bikes direct almost always start taking about the group, and about how the frame doesn't matter. I find that strange, since you're touching the frame the whole time you're on the bike, and really only interact with the group when changing gears. For myself, I value how a frame feels far more than I value the consumable parts of the bike. I suppose it's hard to test ride an online bike, but easy to quote group levels.


It's been pointed out before in other threads, that most (but not all) of the frames are older designs or copies of frames from the mainstream companies (example would be the Gravity Avenue A,B,C or the Liberty 1,2,3 which are copies of the former generation of Giant Defy). There's nothing wrong with the frame designs, the copies are from proven 'winners', just that they aren't the newest, shiniest, most cutting edge out there.

It's hard to argue for an older frame design, but group sets are much easier to compare. Many of the mid-range bikes on BD have component sets of high enough quality that if they were to be bought a la carte, would be equal to or higher than the cost of the BD bike _including_ the frame.


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## JasonB176

I have a very long thread about my BD experience started in the Fall of 2011. Overall, it's been good. I love my Ti frame. I did have a fairly serious issue with the headset in which a part was assembled upside down. This caused high speed wobbles and even a professional mechanic could not get it tightened properly. It was only when he took it apart that he discovered it had been assembled incorrectly. It also took me quite a few rides to sort out the seatpost which just wouldn't stay tight.

My overall opinion about BD is that they sell quality products for reasonable prices but expect to have some issues. Once everything gets ironed out, it's hard to beat the package.


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## Acceler8n

To the OP, I've owned a Motobecane Vent Noir for over 3 years and have put over 4k miles on it. For the price, it is a good bike and I had no issues with it other than having to readjust cables and brakes after I assembled the bike. Like any other bike, ultimately it's your legs doing the work. It's a good bike to start with so when you get your next bike you will know what you like in terms of geometry and ride quality. I currently have a TCR and it's a whole lot stiffer and lighter than the Motobecane but I still take out the Motobecane every now and then.


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## Trek_5200

Acceler8n said:


> To the OP, I've owned a Motobecane Vent Noir for over 3 years and have put over 4k miles on it. For the price, it is a good bike and I had no issues with it other than having to readjust cables and brakes after I assembled the bike. Like any other bike, ultimately it's your legs doing the work. It's a good bike to start with so when you get your next bike you will know what you like in terms of geometry and ride quality. I currently have a TCR and it's a whole lot stiffer and lighter than the Motobecane but I still take out the Motobecane every now and then.


Been following this thread as I know a now former Motobecane owner and have a couple of thoughts. First most bikes sold today will perform adequately for mos riders. The differences show up when pushed to the extreme, and that's what my friend noticed. When pushed on the descents it just did not handle as well as the premier brands, but for more normal riding it was fine. Also have seen the bike, and the construction and attention to detail while OK, do not match up to a Seven , Firefly or Erikson, etc. There's a reason people pay up. If you want to think a Motobecane = Moots go ahead, but I think you are kidding yourself.


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## junior1210

I don't think any reasonable person who has ever laid eyes on both a Motobecane (say LeChamp Ti) and any Moots model could ever say they were equal. I would say though that most (~75%) riders wouldn't get any improvement from a Moots over a Moto though. Most riders just don't push that hard, or ride so extreme that they _need_ Moots quality, even if they want it. I'm still inclined to believe that anybody who would consider a Motobecane as a viable bike choice (myself included), will be well served by a Motobecane, as it'll probably be all the bike they need (if not all the bike they want).


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## Trek_5200

junior1210 said:


> I don't think any reasonable person who has ever laid eyes on both a Motobecane (say LeChamp Ti) and any Moots model could ever say they were equal. I would say though that most (~75%) riders wouldn't get any improvement from a Moots over a Moto though. Most riders just don't push that hard, or ride so extreme that they _need_ Moots quality, even if they want it. I'm still inclined to believe that anybody who would consider a Motobecane as a viable bike choice (myself included), will be well served by a Motobecane, as it'll probably be all the bike they need (if not all the bike they want).




Well , let's face it there are a lot of cyclists buying road bikes that greatly exceed their performance requirements and will never push the the bike to where they will notice a difference. That said, Moots is custom, and the custom Ti builders will select tubing appropriate for the rider.


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## junior1210

Oh no doubt about it. If people bought bikes based on their (the rider's) performance, there'd be A LOT more Trek 1.2's on the road and a lot less SWORKS (of all flavors). Anybody who's looking to drop the cash that a Moots, or Kish, or I.F. is asking for, generally knows what they're after, buying a frame from them (be it performance or bling).


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## Acceler8n

Trek_5200 said:


> Been following this thread as I know a now former Motobecane owner and have a couple of thoughts. First most bikes sold today will perform adequately for mos riders. The differences show up when pushed to the extreme, and that's what my friend noticed. When pushed on the descents it just did not handle as well as the premier brands, but for more normal riding it was fine. Also have seen the bike, and the construction and attention to detail while OK, do not match up to a Seven , Firefly or Erikson, etc. There's a reason people pay up. If you want to think a Motobecane = Moots go ahead, but I think you are kidding yourself.


Definitely not equal but you get what you pay. In Motobecane's case, its a good deal.


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## headloss

*its a good shill*



Acceler8n said:


> Definitely not equal but you get what you pay. In Motobecane's case, its a good deal.


Yet another poster who hasn't contributed to the site except to tell us what a great deal we're missing on a BD brand... *sigh*


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## Acceler8n

headloss said:


> Yet another poster who hasn't contributed to the site except to tell us what a great deal we're missing on a BD brand... *sigh*


Look above before making a dumb comment. I've owned one and still do.


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## nealric

I've been riding a Le Champion SL since fall of 2007. Don't know exact miles, but I'm guessing it's around 10,000. I've done at least a dozen centuries including a metric double as well as a tour through Europe and a tour from NYC to Vermont. I paid $1100 at the time. I could afford something much more expensive, but I haven't found a compelling reason to upgrade yet. 

Other bikes I own for comparison: A high-end Bianchi steel frame bike (built up for wife), a high-end LBS brand carbon mountain bike (Trek Top Fuel), no-brand China frame TT bike, Shwinn Slicker commuter (kind of a POS, but that was the point). 

Positives: 

Was quite the bargain compared to the LBS bikes available at the price point. The local LBS was selling bikes that were 5+ lbs heavier with Sora/Tiagra mix. Mine has full Ultegra other than the FSA carbon crankset. Some have had problems with FSA, but I've had no issues other than a bent chain ring (caused by shipping it back from Europe) and normal wear items (have replaced chain and cassette). I don't race, but I'm confident that If I were to race in anything other than a pro event, any losses would be my fault and not the bike's fault. 

Negatives

If you can't wrench, you will pay an extra $100 or so getting it set up. You may also get something ill fitting. Nobody is going to hold your hand and give you free tune ups. Since I have a stand and a set of tools, this was not a big deal for me, but it would be a big deal for a total cycling noob. The frames are't even last year's model, more like the five years ago model. You also have to be aware of all the components. Some of the models have one high end component (like an Ultegra rear derailleur) to sell the bike, with a bunch of low-end components to fill it out. 

Overall: You generally do get what you pay for. However, part of what you are paying for when you buy an LBS bike is the service and convenience of a shop and a salesman. If, like me, you don't place a high value on those services, Bikes Direct may make sense. You also won't get the latest and greatest, but it's probably the cheapest way into a new serviceable road bike for the recreational rider.

I feel like the sweet spot for bikes direct is the $900-$2000 range. For more money, you could get something pretty decent from an LBS. For less, you start getting into serious component compromises.


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## Snakebitten

My experience with BD has been great. In 2008 I bought a 2009 Immortal Spirit. Initial setup was absolutely a breeze and it was ride worthy within the hour. The bike was fantastic overall then and it still is now. So light and manuverable. Dura Ace all around except the brake calipers/crank. 

It was not all great though as I had to change the saddle, pedals and brake pads as all three were obvious cost cutting choices to me. I added a custom red/black Fizik saddle, FSA carbon handle bar and carbon seat post and Fulcrum racing wheels but kept the Ritchey wheels it came with. Nothing wrong with the Ritchey wheels at all just wanted the Fulcrums as they went with the black/red theme of my bike. For the cost of my bike plus the expensive add on's I purchased I could have bought a name brand bike but I am happy with what I got. The bike doesn't feel one bit cheap over all even when brand new.

If you are not a brand snob and are open-minded enough to see past subjective marketing you could save yourself a few bucks and get a pretty solid bike. I think the Immortal frames, like I have for instance, were older well respected name brand frames and made by the same mfg so why would it magically be a low class/quality frames just because of the BD name?


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## mikeyzoomzoom

First time posting, everyone has to start somewhere I guess....

I found this thread while looking for reviews of the Motobecane Fantom CX which I got for myself about 3 weeks ago from BD. I wanted to see what others thought about the bike.

It's been a great bike so far although I'm still getting used to riding a road bike(sore elbows, numb/sore hands) as opposed to standing or sitting upright on my BMX bikes. The last geared bike I owned was a Murray 10speed as a teenager 25+ years ago so riding leaning forward is awkward and I think I've used the drops 3 or 4 times in 3 weeks of riding the bike. 

There are no other geared bikes in my stable to compare this too so ignorance might be bliss with this bike but I think it's a good value at $460 as part of the pre-black friday sale that BD is having. It's reasonably light, weighs less than my 26lb Interceptor26 but a lot more than my son's 15lb Ripper Jr. Weld quality is great and the finish is good although fragile as I noticed leaning it up against a concrete post while taking a break scratched/chipped the paint. It's a nice looking bike and I've gotten compliments to that regard. Sora/Tiagra combo shifts well, cantilever brakes work well although I don't feel like they have the power to lock wheels like the v-brakes on mine or my son's BMX bikes. The seat might get changed out soon if my rear end doesn't get used to it and I'm looking at getting a shorter Ritchey 30degree stem to bring the bars in and up a little and bring my torso up so I'm not putting so much weight on my hands/wrists/elbows. Otherwise I'm going to leave the bike as is.

I did have a LBS slap it together and left off the additional brake levers on the tops and they cut some new brake lines to use with the brifters and rewrapped the bars to hide the brake cables. Usually I assemble my own bikes but was intimidated with the derailleurs and losing the extra brake levers but since then I've dialed in the shifting myself after watching a few Youtube videos on adjusting Shimano derailleurs. I got a little wild and crazy and added a pair of Ibera water bottle cages to it as well and found some yellow Nalgene water bottles to match the bike


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