# Training for STP



## Red90

So I've signed up to do the seattle to portland ride in two days. 200miles total. My goal is really just to finish the ride in good shape and hopefully in mid pack.

This will be my first endurance ride of any form, or any event ride I have ever done. I began riding last May of 2013 and I've never been overly active in fitness since high school. I'm turning 40 this year and this cycling obsession has hit me by surprise.

I'm starting my training this week and wouldn't mind some advice on getting it started on the right foot. I'm dedicating three weeknights to riding on the trainer (I got a used kurt kinetic) and one long weekend ride. I have a bicycle computer that tells me speed, cadence and a HRM. I can usually ride at about 16mph average on the flats, but my heart rate is usually at about 170bpm. The highest I've seen my heart rate is about 192bpm on some nasty climbs.

I'm starting my training just doing some slow heart rate in the 130-140 on the trainer right now. I'm going to use the weekend longer rides to increase my distance every week incrementally. The longest ride I've done in one sitting is about 50 miles.

What I wanted to know is how do I track my progress. Or what metric do people use to see how they are doing and what they need to change. I know that one of the main problems I have is my heartrate is far too high when I'm riding outside... I am frequently in the 170+ range. I feel like I'm working at that range when I'm outside... at the 160bpm, I feel relaxed and can carry a conversation.


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## aclinjury

What's STP?

You should do a 100 mile ride first before attempting 200. After 100 miles, it's not so much about power anymore, but about how to keep your body alive. You need to go at a pace where your food intake is sufficient to meet your energy expenditure. Most can people go spend way more energy than they can refill through eating. If you average 16 mph on the flats for say about 50 miles. Then for 200 mile you can expect the average to drop to 13-14 mph.


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## Red90

STP (Seattle to Portland) - it's just how they named the event.

The event is in July so I have about 4 months to train for this event and hopefully pick the speed up a bit by then. I think before the event I have to be able to at least do a century in one day.


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## genux

Red90, to confirm, you're doing STP using the 2-day option, right? That would mean you'd be doing back-to-back centuries.

I haven't done STP. My longest ride is AIDS/LifeCycle last year (545 miles in 7 days) followed by Bike MS: Waves to Wine (100-mile on day 1, 75-mile on day 2) , but I feel the training and preparation should be similar.

My HR is still pretty high on most rides even at medium pace (155+ bpm, max HR rated at 187 bpm), but I don't let heart rate be my concern because these rides aren't races. Knowing that and keeping that in mind can help make these rides more enjoyable (even if your primary goal is just finishing).

I think the most important parts in my training before was:
- Putting in the miles and time on the saddle.
- Not going "all out" (maximum effort) — I was focused more on long, steady/slow distance rides to build aerobic endurance
- Increasing distance each week, trying to follow the "10% window" as a minimum guideline, although on many occasions I exceeded that (e.g. going from 50 miles to 65 miles on one ride)
- Experimented with nutrition and hydration to see what works for me (although I'm practicing this all over again for the Death Ride)
- Mixing in flat rides with hilly rides
- Practicing different kinds of hills: long and steady vs short and steep

By the time I finished my 80-mile ride, I was somewhat confident I could take a century the next time around. My only mistake on my first century attempt was that I was completely empty on the 88th mile: no food and just minimal amount of water. I survived on a shot of Gu that was shared with me, but that was a nasty experience. The effects of caffeine (which is foreign to me) gave me a sugar-high but I had the corresponding sugar-crash by the end of the ride.

At your current pace (16mph), I'd say you're in pretty good shape already. How long would you say you could sustain that? If that's your pace for a 50-mile ride done in roughly 3.5 hour moving time and you feel like you still have enough fuel to do more miles, you can dial down the speed and effort a bit and be able to finish your century easily.

Oh, and one more thing. When I did AIDS/LifeCycle, the biggest challenge I found was the effects of back-to-back days of riding. Looking at each day's route, I feel like I'd be able to do them any given day. But after 2-3 days of consecutive riding, the effects of tired legs add up. I know STP is only 2 days, so my additional tips:
- Eat immediately after your ride to recover
- Sleep, and get as much of it as possible (at least 8 hours)
- Be well rested for the next day
- Stretch + massage your body if you can

Though I've found that for many people, adrenaline and excitement gets them through the second (or last) day.


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## Red90

Yup, it's a back to back century. Since I've never done an event like this, I'm really not sure how my body is going to react. I'm pretty confident that I have enough time to train to make 100 miles in a day. I'm just not sure how my body will feel the next day to do another 100 miles.

I'm worried about the heart rate as, it tends to be high when I'm out riding. I can sustain that kind of effort for a 3-4 hour ride, but I don't think that is the right way to train for this type of ride.

Although I have done a 50mile ride in about 3.5-4 hrs or so, we did stop here and there for water and stuff. I was exhausted by the end of it... my legs felt like spaghetti. 

Most of my rides have usually been in the 2-3hr range so nutrition has not played a huge factor. I can usually do an hour to two hour ride with just drinking water. If it's longer than that I eat a granola bar half way through it. I think if I do this endurance ride, it will need to be much more frequent eating and drinking and counting calories.

I'm excited about the ride, however I also don't want to go in it with guns blazing the first 50miles and crawl the last 50miles. I guess I will need to be disciplined to hold back for the first half of the ride and try to understand my sustainable pace.


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## genux

Regarding endurance building:

I think your "longest ride" will make you feel tired no matter what, and that's what the training is for. My first 60-mile ride I covered in 5 hours, but I knew I bonked very badly and was running on empty most of the time. But after 2-3 repeats in the 60-mile range, the subsequent ones weren't as bad.

I know the two conditions that trigger "legs like mush" for me:
- Going hard (I can burn out in under 20 miles easily)
- Extended (>7-hour) rides, even on easy-medium pace. Past a certain point, my legs and butt just don't want to be on the bike anymore.

Regarding nutrition/hydration:

Most organized century rides will have 4-5 rest stops, which means they'd be spaced apart by 15-25 miles each, a distance you'd be able to cover in 1-2 hours. Using that as a guide, use the rest stops as an opportunity to "top-off" both food and drink. The usual recommendation is to empty your water bottles by the time you reach the rest stop and pee to avoid dehydration, but I've found this varies significantly from one person to another and other conditions (e.g. hot and humid days vs overcast and cool days).

That's what I like about these organized rides — it really gives you an opportunity to break it down into smaller segments, so it can become 5x20 mile rides instead of 1x100 rides.


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## duriel

You need to build endurance & practice eating.
You need to eat about 150 cal per hour, you decide, gels, granola, drinks, but you got to do it every hour. Preferably at 15 or 30 min intervals or something. Practice on any ride over 1 hours while your riding, not stopped. If you eat this when you ride you will loose the feeling of tired legs.... you are not eating. You need to drink 1/2 bottle/ hour min, more if it is over 80 degrees. This is the mistake rookies make, they forget to eat & drink! Even pros mess up on this.... sometimes.
You need a physical before proceeding, your heart rate is pretty high. 
Training, you can go harder for short rides, long rides try to pace yourself at a steady easy speed. 
At least 1 month before the ride. Do at least a 80 mile with a next day ride of 40 or 50 and you will get the feeling of what that does to your body. 2 weeks before STP, don't do any ride over 50 miles, take it easy, no hammering.
First day, pace all day, do not push, eat, rest at rest stops, you will finish.
Second day, pace all morning, if you feel the power you can let it loose in the afternoon, that would be a 50 mile finish!
GL


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## Red90

That is definitely something I need to practice and test as I have never eaten while I'm riding. I often don't even drink while I'm riding. I usually just stop at some point to have a snack and drink. I have to learn to do that while staying steady on the bike. I don't want any erratic behaviour that might cause an accident.


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## duriel

If you go down to the next section of forums, look in NorthWest. There is other good info on STP there. I've done it about 6 times.


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## aclinjury

eh you will need to eat and drink while on the bike. I can see not eating on a short ride, but not drinking? Not a smart idea.


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## Clyde250

Here is the thing. STP is as easy of a double century as you will find. There are a ridiculous amount of riders, so as long as you sit in and draft you can save yourself a lot of effort. 

If you are training, I wouldn't focus on the distances so much as the intensity. Stronger legs means you aren't on the bike for as long, and that pushing on the pedals takes pressure off your butt and hands. It's a win-win. If you are starting now, you won't have any trouble finishing. Try and ride 3x a week with no more than 2 days between rides. When you go out, ride hard. 

Nutrition is the key to finishing strong. Your long rides should be used to dial in what works for you. I like a good breakfast a few hours before I ride (baked oatmeal from all-recipes.com) and I start with solid foods (boiled potatoes with parmesan and sea salt) and progress toward gels by the end of the day.

My friend did it last year weighing well over 250 and didn't really train at all. Granted he sat in the draft all day and had people telling him what and when to eat, but he finished.


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## Red90

Ya I know I'll need to do that for this ride. I'm just saying that I don't do it now as most of my rides are 1-2hrs. You usually have enough fluids and energy to last you the first hour without having to drink on the bike. I'll need to practice eating and drinking while on the bike for this endurance ride.

Most of my other rides, I stop, drink and eat and move on if its longer than an hour.


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## Red90

Ya I do hear it's not a difficult double century as it's mainly flat, however, it still is something i've never tired and am still somewhat intimidated by it. I hear different methodologies of traininig. Some say do the low intensity aerobic zones and just work on increasing distance till you get there. Others say that HIIT does the same as very long low intensity work outs but in shorter time.

My training plan is for the first 5-6 weeks to do slow aerobic training base miles for 3 weeknights, probably 2-3 hrs each time... all depends on what time I get off work. Then one long weekend ride increasing distance every weekend by about 5-10 percent. After 6 weeks or so, my week night rides will change to HIIT so I can work on the speed.

I'm not sure if this is the most efficient or proper plan, but at least it's a plan. I will adjust as I start to feel what my body tells me. I'm sure once I start doing very long rides... my recovery time will be different.


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## ScooterDobs

I was in a similar situation 2 years ago. In fact, the only reason I signed up for STP was to provide incentive to train. Cascade's web site has a really good training plan. It starts slow and builds mileage as the event nears, tapering in the weeks leading up to the event. Here is my advice because it worked for me:
Follow the STP mileage plan
Get to know your body. At what heart rate can you run for hours at a time. The longer rides teach you this. I can run all day at 135 bpm. Consistent readings in the high 140s and I'm a dead man in a few hours. I tell my riding partners this is my tachometer and I manage my ride by managing my heart rare. 
You HAVE to ride some long rides prior to the event. It does two things. First it conditions your butt to be on the saddle for a long time. Second you have to learn how to stay hydrated and nourished. By buddies run well on bannanas but they don't sit well with me. Fig Newtons work well for me over many hours. 

Look at the route map and you will find that there are food stops about every 30 miles so train with that in mind. It's easier to do three 30 mile rides, back to back, than one 90 mile ride. We did our long training rides in 30 mile increments with 15-45 minute rest stops where we ate and refilled bottles. 
Ride with friends and learn how to ride in a pace line. We did our work without drafting then, with about 3 weeks to go, practiced drafting. It's amazing what the draft will do for you and, with 10,000 riders, there's always someone to draft. 

In all, the above advice worked for me and my group. I had the farthest to go in fitness but the ride was fantastic. No soreness, cramping, aches, etc. even getting on the bike the second morning was pleasant. 

One final note about STP. You are riding with 10,000 potential friends. The first half of the first day is crowd control. Don't try and set speed records, just go with the flow and introduce yourself to some people. It's a nice warm up. My heart rate never went above 130 to the first food stop. It thins out a little after the first stop, then more after the second stop. Day two is pretty spread out and more of a ride and less a traffic jam. 

I didn't ride it last year and my group rode RSVP. They really enjoyed the smaller number of bikes. I'm signed up for RSVP2 this year and am using the STP mileage plan for that ride. Train lots and the ride will be great. Don't train much and it won't be as fun as it could be. Good luck.


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## Red90

Thanks for the advice. I've been monitoring my heart rate on the trainer as it's more controlled. I find that when I'm on the road, I tend to more easily go to a much higher heart rate. But on the same token... it feels easier to maintain a higher heart rate outside than it is on a trainer. I'm not sure why that is, but it just feels that way.

I'll have to do some testing with long runs to see how I feel and let my body tell me things and make adjustments and see what the effects are. Crappy thing is, it's damn wet here in the pacific northwest... always raining. It's difficult to get the long rides to cooperate with the weather report on the weekends.

I was wondering how the training affected your heart rate? Did you see an increase in speed for the same given heart rate exertion, or did you find your heart didn't go up as quickly for a given effort?

One thing good is I am practising to ride in a group. And it makes a world of a difference. If you can stay behind someones wheel, it feels like you get sucked right in and you can relax a bit. You just have to be very cognisant of what is ahead, to anticipate if changes in speed and movement. If feels like my body takes a rest but my mind is on high alert.


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## ScooterDobs

As my fitness imrpoved, I was going faster at the same heart rate. When you are really out of shape it is impressive the gains you can make in a short period of time.

Don't worry about distance yet. Look at the Cascade site training plan and you'll see some pretty easy distances to start with. On the longer rides, break them up into 30 mile chunks and eat during the breaks like you will at STP.

Figure out what heart rate works for you for extended periods and use that as your guide during training and the ride. On some stretches my group would pull away from me because my heart rate was too high at their pace. We always stopped at the rest stops and regrouped, however. Remember it is not a race! The goal is to go the distance and enjoy the ride. If you can only go 10 mph, then you will be riding 10 hours each day but you will finish the ride.

It was a pretty good feeling for a 48 year old to get off his dead butt, start cycling at 13 mph, barely able to muster the energy to ride for an hour, to the point where I could comfortably ride 200 miles in 2 days. All in 6 months of work.

I also used MapMyRide to record my rides and I am glad I did. When I didn't feel like riding it was always a good thing to look back to realize how far I had come and that I didn't want to lose that. It was good motivation to keep going.

For some perspective, when STP came around my "test" ride was 30 miles, some good hills, and an average heart rate of about 140 bpm making 16 mph average speed. During STP, my average speed was 16.1 mph on day one and 16.2 mph on day two. Either it was a fitness miracle or drafting made that much of a difference!


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## duriel

If your just starting to riding in groups, your right about focusing on those in front of you while your legs relax. Especially on STP or other huge ride, there are a lot of newbies (you!) riding that make strange and sudden moves. Try to ride behind a veteran rider, don't overlap wheels, give yourself a little room. 1-2 ft behind the wheel, usually you will still get a pretty good pull. Always keep your hands near the brakes. If there is a cross wind, better just pace your own ride unless you can ride full 125% attention and have the reflexes of Sagan.


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## Red90

thanks, I'll be sure to cycle at my own ability and skill level to try to avoid any accidents. I'd rather get there slower than not get there at all. I have been fortunate enough to be able to ride with a group of old cycling veterans that have been kind enough to teach me all the do and don'ts of cycling in a group. Everything from all the proper hand signals, calling out hazards and looking ahead etc.


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## AndrwSwitch

I wouldn't want to spend two days with Cascade Bike Club, but I've done some Centuries. Actually, I think my most informative experience was coming back from a bad knee a while ago.

There are some guidelines that a lot of runners quote. You can safely increase your total volume by 10%/week and you can safely increase the length of your long ride by 10%/week. Doesn't matter hugely if you do that by time or miles, just be consistent. And, if you can do 75% of your goal mileage in a ride, you're ready.

So here's my "recipe." Fire up Excel. Put in the miles for the longer day, and then get 75% of that. Make the cells below that 10% less for each week until you get to this week. That's your long rides. You may need to play with the percentage a bit, but probably not.

Try to do at least that mileage over the course of your midweek rides too.

That's it. If you want to do higher intensity during some midweek rides, cool. If you don't, that's fine too.

Good luck!


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## StarTrekBiker

It's natural to feel a little intimidated. This year will be my first time too. Keep in mind that each year there are A LOT of first timers, and most of them all finish. I am currently training with some friends. Doing the same thing as you are with the base training indoors during the week, and a 'long ride' on Saturday. We are increasing the miles by 5 each week. Doing 40 miles tomorrow. At this rate, we plan to hit 100 miles well before event day. Once the weather starts getting better, we will start adding an additional ride on Sunday morning. Daylight savings will help with the longer daylight hours. 

Drafting is immensely helpful. We are riding at around 16 mph on the flats with no wind. When I am pulling, HR is around 145-150 range. Sitting behind someone, HR drops to 135, which I think is easily maintainable for me. We have 4 guys, so we each pull for 5 minutes, then rest for 15. I'm sure we will all get more fit over the next 2 months, as I'm sure you will as well.


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## atpjunkie

*do the double*

shine the 2 day option
learn how to eat and drink on the clock
learn how to suck wheel and don't sit on the front until it hurts
pull for 30 seconds and move over

if you get dropped soft pedal until the next group shows up


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## karenashg

Below are some things I posted in another forum about prepping for one-day STP. I think a lot of it is applicable to prepping for two-day also. And who knows, you might change your mind and decide to get it all over with in one day  (A side note--if you haven't finalized your overnight location yet, I've heard from a lot of two-day riders that they prefer to go more than halfway the first day, and then have a shorter day the next day.)

A few thoughts, from what I've found useful preparing for one-day STP:

--Even though the ride is pretty flat, do a fair amount of hills in preparation. The second half has some rolling hills, and there's a nice little kick when crossing both bridges. If you've done some really hard hills (Zoo Hill is a good way to torture yourself), the rollers and bridges won't look so big after all. I found it psychologically a big boost to look ahead and say to myself "well, if I can get up _______, I can get up this, no sweat."

--Do a couple rides that are longer in time (maybe a century where you take it easy and slow) to find out how your contact points are doing after 8 hours or so in the saddle. If there are any issues, fix them!!!! Also, your neck and upper back have to build the strength to hold your head up for long hours.

--Figure out what keeps your stomach happy. I've found that I overdose on sweet stuff really quickly (except for grapes and watermelon--don't get between me and them at the food stops!), and that Fritos are my magic super food at mile 120. Every stomach is different, but you need to know what you'll be excited to eat, and then you can happily whiz past some completely bonked riders in the last 30-50 miles.

--Start at 4:45, and if you can, skip the first stop in Kent. The first 50 miles are pretty easy, and it's still nice and cool out, so if you have a snack in your pocket and a full water bottle or two, it's very doable to go straight on through. You'll get ahead of some slower, less experienced riders, and stay with a generally faster, mostly better at bike handling group.

--Despite the profusion of Cascade-sponsored stops, don't overlook the gas stations/minimarts/fast food places along the road. Often they have no lines, for food or for restrooms, which can be well worth a few dollars. Two of my favorites are a little roadside espresso stand in the Chevron parking lot in Yelm with a really nice woman who has remembered us year-to-year--and you get there right when you're really jonesing for some coffee (or at least, I do.)--and the McDonald's in St. Helen's--an ice cold Coke, and french fries dipped in vanilla soft serve gets me the remaining 30-some miles into Portland.

Flying Wheels is a good tune-up ride (for bonus points, bike to the start!) If you can get away for it, another ride to consider is the Wenatchee Apple Century. I did it this year, and can't wait for next year. It's hilly and challenging, but beautiful scenery, great roads, low traffic, and an all-around fun and rewarding ride.

And in general, just get out on your bike as much as you can--you'll get more benefits biking two miles to the store for a quart of milk than you will sitting in your car. If you want to do supplemental core exercises, I just got the book "Tom Danielson's Core Advantage" and the exercises in it all look really useful, and the ones I've done so far have been great. I think it would be worth checking out.

It's a fun, wild thing to be able to bike all the way to Portland in a day. I've done it 3 years in a row, and my husband has done 6, and each year we're already looking forward to the next one as we cross the finish line. Good luck!


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## Red90

Thanks for the advice... I've been riding more these past few weeks, although I must admit I have not been very disciplined to do base training miles. Whenever I go out with others to ride, it's never an "Easy Ride", I end up pushing pretty hard and up a lot of hills. Part of it is the group, the other part is my own want to push. I have been able to do at least two times a week on the trainer on a low aerobic zone ride.

Weather has not been very cooperative here in the pacific northwest, so my weekend have been drenched in rain and I haven't been able to get any longer rides in. Most of my rides are in the 30-40 mile range. 

I'm finding that my neck and shoulder get a bit sore after a longer ride. I might need to strengthen that or look at my fit on the bike a bit.

I am finding this to be a sport of patience. It just takes a long time to get faster. I am seeing results, but it takes a long time. I just have to chomp on it bit by bit and try to be consistent and push myself incrementally. As the saying goes "It never gets easier, you just get faster"

My buddies are rumblings at doing the STP in one day. I feel that if I can train more and dedicate myself more, it is possible. However I didn't commit to it and will evaluate where my physical abilities are a month before the ride.

One of the routes that I ride is quite popular with cyclist and I see guys training on the route all the time. I feel like I'm standing still when they ride by me. I don't feel bad, but always wonder how long it will take before I can get those kinds of legs.


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## AndrwSwitch

It's pretty today.  I'm looking forward to getting home. I'm riding tomorrow and Thursday, so tonight I'll go for a run. 

A friend of mine insisted on starting cycling in November a couple years ago. She observed that while most of the people she saw on the trails in November passed her like she was standing still, when the weather turned nicer, she got to be faster than a lot of people herself. You're seeing a fast group right now.

Is your longest ride at least 27 miles right now? Then you're on track to ride a Century in July and finish strong. Since your long ride is 30-40 right now, you're looking fine. Have you tried laying out a plan? I think you'll find it makes building up to a very long ride seem much more manageable.

If your group rides are making it hard for you to get out and do your planned ride the next day, they're counterproductive. Otherwise, don't sweat it. Almost every ride on real roads includes a couple efforts. Doing the STP isn't really going to just be sitting on the saddle for 6 hours in zone 2. So having to work a little hard at times makes a good contribution too. Are you having fun?

Definitely do some core work. Get a bike fit too. I never paid for one on this coast, but I'm sure someone who follows the PNW forum has. And, ask the people you ride with. You can probably already tell by sight when someone has a good fit.


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## duriel

Forget about doing it in one day. If you never rode a century, you will be in trouble on a 200+ miler. Your friends are delusional, if they have never done a century.
I'm not saying one couldn't do it, just that you will wish you hadn't done it.


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## Red90

My longest ride is only about 50miles right now, but majority of my rides are about 30miles. I've been riding about 3-4 times a week. It's very enjoyable and satisfying and I can still recover from them enough to do the next ride. However I think most to deem the type of riding I do is the junk training miles, in that it's not slow enough to be in that aerobic zone, but not high enough to be in the interval training/sprinting zone. So I guess that is why I say I'm not really disciplined in my riding right now... I'm just going out and enjoying myself on those rides.

I'm just hoping the weekends get a bit better soon so I can do some longer rides to see what will bother me. So far it's just the shoulders getting a bit sore, which I'll need to work on my posture or some strength training on.

I'm trying to at least stick to recommended miles to do each week on the STP training schedule. I've maintained the volume, but not the type of rides. I'm pretty confident that I can do the STP in two days. I doubt I'll try it in one day. I want it to be an enjoyable experience finishing with gas still left in the tank.


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## AndrwSwitch

Junk miles don't apply to you.

Go see a fitter about your position on the bike. Or try the Peter White article.


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## atpjunkie

duriel said:


> Forget about doing it in one day. If you never rode a century, you will be in trouble on a 200+ miler. Your friends are delusional, if they have never done a century.
> I'm not saying one couldn't do it, just that you will wish you hadn't done it.


I trained a friend who had never done a century to do the double


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## karenashg

duriel said:


> Forget about doing it in one day. If you never rode a century, you will be in trouble on a 200+ miler. Your friends are delusional, if they have never done a century.
> I'm not saying one couldn't do it, just that you will wish you hadn't done it.


I'll be devil's advocate here and say that if you want to, you can definitely train to do it one-day this year and enjoy it. Whether you want to is another thing--it takes a significant commitment of time and energy.

My first year of STP, I was training for one-day, but doing some rides with a friend who was training for two-day, having just bought a bike. My friend's two-day training partners flaked out, and in the end my friend ended up riding with me and being very excited about the accomplishment of doing one-day STP. 

One caveat being that though in her mid-40's, she's a dancer and generally a very athletic person, so she started her bike training already with a high level of fitness. Though you're younger than her, OP, you might have a harder time with the jump up in activity level. And you'd definitely want to have a century or two under your belt already if you decide to go for one-day. 

But, it's a pretty awesome feeling to get to Portland in one day! If you decide to put in the work, it's not at all delusional to think you can do it.


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## duriel

atpjunkie said:


> I trained a friend who had never done a century to do the double


Is he still your friend?


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## bigbill

I've done the one day version several times. I've never done the two day version. The thought of riding 100-120 miles on Saturday, sleeping in a tent on the ground, and then riding another century never appealed to me. My commute in the PNW was a 43 mile round trip that I'd do 4 days a week followed by longish rides (70-80 miles) on the weekend. I'd ride 230-250 miles a week for six weeks before STP. I did a few organized centuries to adjust to group riding. If you can't hold your own in a group of a dozen or more riders, STP will be harder. Effort-wise, mile 120 onwards feels the same, it's the mental aspect that's similar to runners hitting the wall that you need to be prepared for. Miles 140 to 180 are the toughest, not because of the terrain which is pretty easy by that point, because you mind will cause self doubt. It's important to be with a sizeable group during the second century to counter this. 

I made a STP primer on the PNW forum if you're interested.


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## atpjunkie

duriel said:


> Is he still your friend?


yes, because I took him on a hard 80 mile training ride where he didn't eat and drink enough and suffered like a mother. He learned a coupe things
A) eat and drink on the clock
B) measure your efforts
C) don't take nutrition advice from a guy at the gym
he did a bunch of longish rides (ony 2 over 100) after our 'trial by fire' and finished STP in I think just under 12. He called and said it was easier than the 80 I took him on. I said that's because you weren't bonking


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## AllanB

Last year I turned 60. To celebrate, I decided to do STP. My friends were completely confident I could do the event in one day despite not bicycling. This was based on my running 10Plus marathons in my 40s. In other words, I have built my endurance over the years through running....physically and mentally. In Feb/2013, I bought a Specialized SL-4. I rode 4 times a week. Tues and Thurs for one hour...mostly fast paced and tempo rides. Sat and Sun I would do long rides each day...building up to 80 and 80...2 weeks before the event. This was all done over flat terrain. I had to learn climbing hills during the event. My friend coached me ...whom I also drafted the entire way. It took me 16 hours including stops. I even ate spaghetti for lunch in Centralia. I'll be doing it again this year. 
The key I feel is proper nutrition and proper rest. Tapering is very important. Also, ride defensively. Practice eating real food on the long rides. Ride on....


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## duriel

16 hours on the bike in one day is not my idea of fun. You should stop and smell the roses sometime.
He must be your friend if you drafted him the whole way. On your own it would have been much more difficult physically & mentally.


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## choppedsled

Congrats, that's a good story. Glad you reached a goal with little time to prepare for it. I started training in Feb of last year for STP as well, and did fine on the 1 day. I just hit the road a couple weeks ago to prepare for this years STP. The 40 mi ride yesterday felt worse than the 200 mi last July, lol. Good luck with this years event, you'll own it!


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## Red90

Ya, I'm still training as much as my time and weather permits right now. Longest ride I've done so far was yesterday at 70miles in a local event here. I was able to complete it, but legs were pretty tired near the last 10 miles.

One thing I did realize was I am a crappy climber. I could hold the speed travelling in a pack, but once the hills came... they were all gone. Any advice on training to climb better?


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## AndrwSwitch

Do it a lot. I don't think it matters much if you do hill repeats per se or just mob around Mercer Island and Cougar Mountain.

Lose weight. You, not the bike. If you don't know how skinny is too skinny for your health, you're fatter than you need to be. Likely, by the weight of a complete bicycle, or at least a set of cheap wheels. It's shocking how much weight we can gain before realizing we're fat. Not me, of course. 

Don't wimp out as soon as the grade kicks up.

If you're half way up a climb and you start getting tired, don't shift down. Tough it out. You'll get a break on the other side. Remember that if your cadence starts to drop, it will get harder, not easier. Therefore, when the going gets tough, stay committed to the cadence you had before you started to decouple.

Don't quit working because you've reached a hill top. Make a couple more kicks until you're back at speed. You'll get a break soon enough.

I was amused riding the Flying Wheels a couple years ago. A group chased past me, so obviously they were faster than me. But they fell apart any time there was a grade. I think that's one of the big differences between rec. and competitive cyclists - competitive cyclists know this is a place where they can push a rider who's struggling, and he'll fall apart and maybe get dropped too badly to stay in the race. That's never happened to me, of course.  But it does mean that competitive cyclists spend more time training with the specific intention of being able to hurt each other on climbs.

The Magic Shift can be kind of a fun trick too.


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## Red90

So if I am training... should I use a lower cadence to train the muscles? Every advice I read on the net says, spin my way up the hill. I have a nice 32 tooth granny gear at the back and often resort to it to climb up the hill. I try to keep the cadence up at 80 rpms or above when going up the hill. I have resorted to shifting down as I'm getting tired up the hill as I thought that's what we are supposed to do.

What would be the best way to train? Hill repeats, or just find a mountain and keep on going up?


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## duriel

There are no hills on the STP... a couple of long climbs... nothing overly steep for any lenght.


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## AndrwSwitch

No, keep your cadence up. As you get tired, still keep your cadence up.

I forget - you bought a bunch of gadgets a while back, right? Have you set your heart rate zones?

I spike up into Zone 4 pretty frequently. Staying in Zone 4 feels pretty crappy, but, especially given that I set my zones using the field test in Friel, I know I can be in Zone 4 for half an hour. When you "feel tired," what zone are you in?

When I first started collecting data from my rides, I started by using a cell phone and Strava. I was sure that if I started to feel sick during a ride, I was interfering with my performance. But in looking at the track from a multilap MTB race, I saw that actually my worst-feeling lap was one of the two best times I put in. It didn't feel great, but I hadn't actually overshot my optimal effort either.

The next year, I tried to just do the two big climbs at 100% every lap. It didn't feel good, but the laps were all within a couple minutes of each other. For a 25-minute lap off-road, I see that as pretty consistent. It sometimes felt heinous, but I think that was my optimal pacing strategy.

If I truly can't maintain a certain pace, my legs simply won't do it.

Now, whether this is fun or not is a matter of opinion. I enjoy the intensity of racing and there's something satisfying to me about finishing a hard workout, getting to the top of a mountain, knowing I gave all I have to give, etc.

But I know this is not the only way to have a satisfying riding practice.

Given how long you've been riding, you don't need to do anything but keep riding around Seattle to get better at climbing.

The books say that doing actual hill repeats in an organized way is better than just going on a hilly ride. I can't say that I've ever done a straight-up, straight-down hill workout. I find out-and-back workouts depressing. I have done the Magnolia and Mercer Island loops as workouts. I don't like to drive to ride my bike, so I haven't done Cougar enough to know it well enough to do as a really focused workout, but I think it's a pretty good workout even if I take a few wrong turns, just because there's so much vert. On my mountain bike, I've also hit the Main Tiger road and Grand Ridge climbs with the intention of doing them as fast as I possibly can. The lighthouse climb in Discovery Park is wicked, but probably not as good a workout as just riding the whole Magnolia loop clockwise and trying to do the two climbs in as little time as possible, or the complete climbing half in as little time as possible.


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## duriel

If you do a long climb, the benefit is that 
1. it is a good workout.
2. You find how hard you can go and hold just under the 'blow-up'. This is important if you want to go fast, if your not interested in that then forget #2. On a long climb, if you go deep into the red zone, you will be slowing down shortly.


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## Red90

Honestly, I try to maintain the cadence above 80, but when the hill starts to go beyond 7% grade, I can't maintain that cadence even with my 32tooth granny gear at the back and 34 compact at the front. My heart rate is high at about 185 when I'm doing those hills. Amazingly I can maintain that level of stress until I get over the hill. I just suck it up and concentrate on breathing all my air out. My cadence will drop, but I don't have any more gears.

i have a heart rate monitor and computer, but haven't done the friel test for the functional lactate threshold yet. Based on where I see my heart rate I think my max is at about 192.

When I did the ride yesterday, I didn't really keep to any zones. I rode it more based upon my perceived efforts. Usually at about 160, I'm comfortable and can chat with other riders. I can maintain a 175 for an extended duration. Probably a good 20minutes or more. At times I was in the 185 region when I'm pushing it, usually up a hill. 

This ride was really for me to see how my body will react to the stress and try to work out any uncomfortable kinks as well as learning to eat and drink.

It was the hills that really killed me. I'd be ok keeping up with everyone, but as soon as the hills came I'd gas out and fall behind.

Funny thing though, I dropped behind after a hill and was pretty much all alone. I had done about 60 miles at that point and pretty tired out. My speed at dropped to about 14mph on a straight fighting a headwind. Low and behold comes an old fella. Must have been at least 70 years of age in a hybrid with lights and a pannier. He's rocking that thing at 20mph. I tag behind him for a good 3 miles trying to keep a draft then he pulled away when it started to incline. I was so humbled and impressed by that old guy. Not sure if he was riding the event but still impressive.


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## AndrwSwitch

Are you comfortable climbing out of the saddle? I don't think I'm super-efficient climbing that way, but sprinkling in little efforts like that is nice for variety and for the occasions when I run out of gears.


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## karenashg

There's a lot of good advice in this thread--and out in the world--about climbing strategies and techniques. But the most important thing, in my opinion, is just to get out there and bike up hills.

(And then, when merely surviving up the hill is no longer enough of a goal, it's great to start focusing on cadence, HR, sitting vs standing, etc. But to focus on any of that, you have to be biking up a hill. So go bike up a hill.)

I took a few hill-climbing lessons, and one of the things my instructor continually said was "climbing is 90% mental, and good climbing is 100% mental." As much as I wanted to protest (though I never had the breath to do so...), I have found this to be really true for me. I can get up hills when completely exhausted with less perceived effort than it used to take me when going up on fresh legs. Improved conditioning is a small part of that--but the main part is that I know I can make it up the hill, and just knowing that makes it way easier. It may take a while, and it may not be pretty, but I've gone from being intimidated by hills, to only wondering how quickly I can make it up, not whether I'll make it up at all. It just took biking up a lot of hills--and being made to bike up a few I didn't think I could do. So just keep at it!


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## bradkay

"If you're half way up a climb and you start getting tired, *don't shift dow*n. Tough it out. You'll get a break on the other side. Remember that if your cadence starts to drop, it will get harder, not easier. Therefore, when the going gets tough, *stay committed to the cadence you had before *you started to decouple."

You do realize that this is a contradictory statement, don't you? Do you mean stay committed to an effort level or go ahead and shift down to stay to a particular cadence? From his response it does not appear that he is going to be able to keep the same cadence all the way up a steep climb without shifting down...

I try to look at climbing as an efficiency test. There are portions of a climb where I want to work harder and others where I just want to maintain effort. If I think that I am going to lose momentum in my lowest gear then I will actually shift up a gear or two and stand up to attack - but then shift back down and sit to spin as soon as the gradient decreases. Reading the climb is an important part of climbing - knowing where to put in the extra effort and where you can recover. Not everyone is a Cat 2 racer, but we all can learn to climb in an efficient manner.


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## AndrwSwitch

I meant committed to his cadence. I anticipate that his effort level's going to keep rising.

He asked about climbing faster.


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## AllanB

in all my training...both running and cycling...I train by myself. I enjoy the solitude. So when I ride with friends, time really goes by quick. Since it occurs so infrequently, it becomes a very special occasion...and something I look forward to. 

16 hours on a bike I not too bad. I lucked out in having a bike that is fitted properly. My bike seat is a "women's seat". no complaints here...works for me.


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## Red90

bradkay said:


> "If you're half way up a climb and you start getting tired, *don't shift dow*n. Tough it out. You'll get a break on the other side. Remember that if your cadence starts to drop, it will get harder, not easier. Therefore, when the going gets tough, *stay committed to the cadence you had before *you started to decouple."
> 
> You do realize that this is a contradictory statement, don't you? Do you mean stay committed to an effort level or go ahead and shift down to stay to a particular cadence? From his response it does not appear that he is going to be able to keep the same cadence all the way up a steep climb without shifting down...
> 
> I try to look at climbing as an efficiency test. There are portions of a climb where I want to work harder and others where I just want to maintain effort. If I think that I am going to lose momentum in my lowest gear then I will actually shift up a gear or two and stand up to attack - but then shift back down and sit to spin as soon as the gradient decreases. Reading the climb is an important part of climbing - knowing where to put in the extra effort and where you can recover. Not everyone is a Cat 2 racer, but we all can learn to climb in an efficient manner.


I do get that idea of cadence and effort, however I haven't really looked at planning on how to climb a hill. I usually just go at it from the beginning to end with a high effort and using the gears to maintain a cadence level. That usually means I shift to a lower gear midway through when I can't maintain the cadence and to the point that if I'm on the granny gear, my cadence will begin to drop as I start to get tired.

I can probably experiment with going at a lower gear to begin with at a lower effort, but maintaining a cadence and trying to keep that cadence cresting the hill.

I am comfortable getting off the saddle to climb, however when I'm already struggling on the saddle going up, if I get off the saddle to push I'm afraid I'll exhaust my legs and eventually have to stop. I usually leave enough gas in the tank to keep me on the bike without stopping. All I do is concentrate to maintain the upward motion and I know I'll eventually get there no matter how slowly I move.


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## Red90

I haven't tracked my times going up hills yet, I just intrinsically know based upon my speed if I'm improving or not.

Would it be faster to climb a hill just going at it and struggling all the way through, or would it be faster to pace yourself on the first half, go a bit slower and once you've reached a certain point push all the way to the crest knowing how much you have left.

What would be the best training regiment for hill climbing? Just get to the point of grinding up the hill... or learning to pace yourself at a steady achievable effort and slowly build speed at a more moderate effort.


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## bradkay

If you get yourself out of breath right off the bat, then you will have problems maintaining momentum. But if you start out in too low a gear you lose momentum too quickly. Figuring out the right gear and right cadence takes practice. I like pacing myself at a steady achievable effort - that effort level goes up as the season progresses.


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## AndrwSwitch

^^^
Pretty much this for me too. When I said not to shift down when you're half way up a climb, that's what I meant. Not don't shift ever. Although it's worth mentioning that if the pitch changes on me, I'll shift. It's really my power output and cadence I'm trying to hold steady.

One of the tricks of climbs is that I often feel I can hang onto a little more gear when I'm just starting a climb. As I begin to settle into a steady tempo, I often decide that was a little much and back off a bit. That all happens pretty early in the climb. If I were to quantify it, I'd say within the first third.

Unless a climb initiates ridiculously quickly, which some in Seattle do, I don't like to back off to a lower gear right off the bat. I carry my inertia into the climb, try to maintain effort, and shift to lower gears to match. If I'm trying to work climbing or intensity, I shift down to what feels like an effort I can sustain, but still higher than what I was doing JRA.

After a while on a longer climb, that gear may start to feel like a lot. That's when (if I'm on that kind of a ride, on some rides I don't care) I try to hold that power output, even though it begins to feel awful.

It's useful to be comfortable climbing out of the saddle... I find that even when I begin to feel really drained during a climb I've been doing seated, the change in muscle groups I experience when I get out of the saddle is enough to make me feel fresh. Fresher, anyway. Since I pedal a lower cadence out of the saddle, to maintain speed or even accelerate, I shift up two or three gears. That's the Magic Shift. Try to be more than halfway (more like two thirds?) up a climb before doing it. For most of us, climbing out of the saddle is less efficient than climbing seated, so too early a Magic Shift is counterproductive. I often find it hard to maintain intensity in the saddle after climbing out of the saddle for a bit, so once I'm out, I try to stay standing. If the grade gets mellower, I shift up. If it gets a lot mellower, I may make a few kicks to try to get on top of my gear and then return to the saddle without shifting down. Given my relative cadences, that implies a fair acceleration.

This stuff takes some experimentation. Efficiency certainly plays into it, but doing things faster, for me, is more of a pouring gasoline on the fire kind of thing. "Burning a match" to use the cliche.


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## bradkay

"After a while on a longer climb, that gear may start to feel like a lot. That's when (if I'm on that kind of a ride, on some rides I don't care) I try to hold that power output, even though it begins to feel awful."

This is the only part that I disagree with - for me. I trashed my knees as a runner (decades ago) and so will not stay in too high a gear just to tough it out. I want to keep using these middle aged knees, so I switched to smaller chainrings and learned to spin high RPMs a long time ago. I will stand on the pedals to increase effort - the magic shift, as you say. On a tour on the BLue Ridge Parkway back in the 80s I forgot to upshift first and lost way too much momentum once I stood up. That is when I berated myself "You Idiot! Shift Up, Stand Up" which then developed into a song (apologies to Bob Marley) "Shift up, Stand up... stand up for the climb!" 


Like you I find standing for a climb to be a nice change of pace and a great way to stretch the muscles. I will sometimes search out a hill steep enough to stretch my legs on in the middle of an easy ride...


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## StarTrekBiker

Good info on hill climbing.

But keep in mind that STP is not that hilly. The biggest hill is on the first day. The details of the climb can be found here:
Strava Segment | The Hill II - Puyallup


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## Red90

I will have to try that magic shift, might be a good change in the pace.

I do know that STP is mainly flat, however where I live has a lot of hills which often makes me resort to my granny gear, it'd be nice to be able to get to a fitness level that I'm not at my last gear and can keep my cadence up. I think I just have to keep on working on hills till I can switch to a higher gear. This is such a sport of patience and perseverance.


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## AllanB

StarTrekBiker said:


> Good info on hill climbing.
> 
> But keep in mind that STP is not that hilly. The biggest hill is on the first day. The details of the climb can be found here:
> Strava Segment | The Hill II - Puyallup


All my training is on flat land…Virginia Beach, VA. To mimic hills, I would shift 2 - 3 gears higher on the big chain ring... increase my cadence by at least 10 (97 or higher)…and do 5 min intervals. On a 2 hour ride, I would do 5 intervals in the beginning…and 5 towards the end. I did this workout once a week for 8 weeks. 

When I got to Seattle, my friend took me on a ride called the Seven Hills of Kirkland. We did this as our last long ride a week before STP. On the first hill, I tried to concentrate on keeping my cadence around 87. I just about died as I kept downshifting until there were no more lower gears. My friend told me to forget about cadence. Pick a gear that feels real easy in the beginning…and maintain a steady pace. If I felt like slowing down…go ahead and slow down…but try to keep a constant rhythm. This worked for me on that ride…and…more importantly during STP.


My point is…there are many ways to conquer hills. It is up to the individual to find a way that works for you. what works for you may not work for anyone else. 

Thanks to all for sharing your tips on "hill climbing". I will definitely try some of them out. I am a perpetual work in progress in everything i do.


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## Red90

I know how you feel. I find that on those long hills, I'll hit an equilibrium where I maintain a rhythm of just enough intensity on my cardio and muscles that I don't need to stop. However I also know that any more effort than that, and I will break. I try to maintain this level of intensity at a good 80-90 cadence, but that doesn't always happen as I may not have a low enough gearing.


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## AndrwSwitch

^^^
Sounds like you've really already found your max. effort for hills. About the only variations you can try on that are attacking at the top, with or without a Magic Shift, and doing intervals between a higher effort and a bit of a recovery. That second thing requires that you be on a hill you can already finish in something taller than your lowest gear.


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## Red90

AndrwSwitch said:


> ^^^
> Sounds like you've really already found your max. effort for hills. About the only variations you can try on that are attacking at the top, with or without a Magic Shift, and doing intervals between a higher effort and a bit of a recovery. That second thing requires that you be on a hill you can already finish in something taller than your lowest gear.


Would you suggest that I try doing some intervals on the hills? What I mean by that is maybe going at a lower intensity, then magic shifting up a couple of gears and sprinting off the saddle for half a minute till my legs give out, then settling back down at an easier pace. Do that a few times up the hill. Would that be more effective than just a steady hard pace up the entire hill.


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## AndrwSwitch

Sure.

I think variety is always good.

It's possible that your fitness is already improving as fast as it's going to for a while. So you may not see a change in results.


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## Gobbledygook

Over the last 20 years I've ridden 12 STP's. All 1 day rides. I've trained for all of them the same way. Ride as many century's as possible , always trying to keep up with people who are faster then you. Ride the Capital Bicycle Club Two County Double Metric Century on Jun 22, 125 miles. If you can finish that ride you can make the STP. Two-County Double Metric Century | A Fundraising Ride Presented by Capital Bicycling Club of Olympia
You have to eat and drink while riding to make it.


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## Colnago62

It is very difficult to give specific training tips when you haven't ridden with a person. Keep in mind what would be a good approach to climbing for a 140ib rider probably won't work for a 200lb rider. Add to that fitness level, equipment, and things like years on the bike, it really does become a case for try everything and use what works. If it where me I would work on spending more time on the bike; not necessarily more miles, though. Getting your body use to spending 5-7 hours in the saddle can make a big difference in how much you enjoy the ride. You don't need to do these types of training rides with a high heart rate. Ride at a comfortable effort. Make haste slowly. Give your body time to adapt.


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## bigbill

The ride is 200 miles, there's one climb and it's about 40 miles in. 198 miles are not climbing, just some rollers between Centralia and Longview. You get a cumulative 4K feet of climbing because it's 200 miles long. If a person goes into the ride worrying about the climbs, they'll be disappointed. Better training is doing several centuries and longer rides to get used to being in that position for half a day.


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## Red90

Thanks for the advice. I've done a few metric centuries so far, most I've gone is about 90 miles in a day with several hills. I feel pretty confident that I'll be ready for the two day. The main problem I see is pacing myself and not trying to ride with my buddies that are a level above me. I find that when I ride alone, I have enough legs to last, but when I ride with them... the latter half becomes a lesson in suffering.


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## AndrwSwitch

Just don't start with them. Don't start too early, period.

Are you doing the Flying Wheels? I did it two years ago. I didn't take it very seriously - I got there when I got there, and just rode until I was done. However, I'd been training during the winter and had a previous Century and a couple 50-mile MTB races, as well as assorted other long rides behind me - I was in decent shape.

Something I noticed is that people who are worried about doing it slowly often started right when the starting line opened, or even earlier. So they got passed by every faster rider on the route. There's often some acrimony about that stuff and Cascade both allows a lot of time for people to complete their routes and asks that faster people start early and slower people not worry about it so much, so that the group fans out over the course instead of running over itself.

Point being, if you have breakfast with your friends, figure out where you're meeting them at the end of the day, and then wait until you can't see them anymore after they start, the temptation is gone. There'll be plenty of people at all paces to ride with.


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## Red90

I won't be doing the flying wheels ride. I've done a few rides locally here in Vancouver, BC. I'm planning on just going with that same mentality of getting there when I get there. I know I will always get there, just a matter of how long it takes.

My buddies that I'm riding with are good in that they will wait for me at the rest stops. I know they don't mind the wait, but still there is always an invisible bit of pressure that's mostly in my own head. We have been riding together for the past year and it gets a bit frustrating as I see their improvements progress faster than myself. Whenever we ride in a group, I'm usually the one drafting and not leading as its a struggle just to keep pace behind their wheel and when we hit a hill, I drop right back and they will wait for me at the top.


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## AndrwSwitch

So why STP? There have to be centuries and double centuries closer to home, (I know there are - off-hand, I know two from Bellingham) or you could do RSVP.


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## Red90

We are making a road trip out of it... my buddies and our wifes are all headed down... they shop we ride. We have a group of 5 people riding this event so it should be enjoyable.


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## jtdunc

Red90, you're getting some good and some questionable advice here. There are several good century primers out there off Google. 

Best advice,100 miles a day is mentally and physically challenging. You should be working a few 20-30 miler rides and a at least one longer 50-60-70 miler weekly. The Cascade Bike Club, the sponsor, seems to be having century rides every other week now.

I'm planning to do the 101-mil ride on the STP course this Saturday.

Actually riding segments of the course helped me on Flying Wheels a month ago. That hill in Puyallap claims riders as most are not fully trained and skilled on doing a 3 mile 445' climb right off the bat. Stay far left of the mass of riders as pile-up's and spills occur there. 

I would pick one of those weekly ride and get in 2,000' in climbing weekly to master what works for you - standing/sitting, sitting, spinning.

Just ride, ride, ride and do two or three group rides to get comfortable drafting in a paceline.

Another good idea is riding with known friends at a set pace - that way you're not not riding 6" off some guy's rear wheel who is inexperienced.


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## Red90

I'm pretty confident I can do the STP now. I've been doing a couple of weeknight rides in the 40mile range and weekend rides at about 70-80 mile range. I had tested myself out a few weeks ago doing a 70mile ride with 8500ft of elevation gain and I was able to survive that with sheer will power, so I think I can survive STP.

I'll be meeting with a group of friends that I have rode with, there's about 15 people in all that I know, but I think the group will eventually be split up due to different skill levels. However most of them are doing it in one day not two.

I have two friends that I ride with most of the time that are coming with me, however they are both stronger than me, which makes me nervous about the ride as I will have a tendency to try to keep up... (I know... I know... I should ride at my own speed and pace myself) it's like this invisible pressure when your behind someones wheel and you just push yourself just enough to keep in that draft and not get lagged behind.


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## duriel

If they are doing the ride in one day, you will not be riding with them, as they will be hauling assos. If you can hang with them, you might as well finish in one day too. But I think it would be better just to settle into you own pace, and let them go. Plus they will be leaving at 500am or so.


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## AllanB

You've trained well and put in the mileage On event day, its all about "defensive riding". there are 10000 other folks out there. certain areas will be crowded. stay alert at all times especially just before rest stops when folks are tired. best of luck on your ride. 



Red90 said:


> I'm pretty confident I can do the STP now. I've been doing a couple of weeknight rides in the 40mile range and weekend rides at about 70-80 mile range. I had tested myself out a few weeks ago doing a 70mile ride with 8500ft of elevation gain and I was able to survive that with sheer will power, so I think I can survive STP.
> 
> I'll be meeting with a group of friends that I have rode with, there's about 15 people in all that I know, but I think the group will eventually be split up due to different skill levels. However most of them are doing it in one day not two.
> 
> I have two friends that I ride with most of the time that are coming with me, however they are both stronger than me, which makes me nervous about the ride as I will have a tendency to try to keep up... (I know... I know... I should ride at my own speed and pace myself) it's like this invisible pressure when your behind someones wheel and you just push yourself just enough to keep in that draft and not get lagged behind.


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## Red90

With so many riders starting, when does the pack start to spread out? After the first major hill climb?

Also, in the streets from seattle, are the roads closed off on that route, or does everyone need to stop at all the traffic lights... I can see a big mess happening through the streets from seattle.


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## duriel

The roads are open to traffic, you are released from the start line in waves, to allow traffic to continue. At that time in the morning the traffic is very light, but there is some. 

The riders are do not usually bunch into a huge group, they separate into groups of 1 to 20. Not really any huge groups... really don't want any. 

You have to obey traffic signals, but there are few and at choke points, they have officers to help handle traffic/bikes.


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## jtdunc

My co-worker rode STP two years ago. 2 days is more enjoyable as you can afford to smell the roses.


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## AndrwSwitch

I hear if you blow by the first aide station, it's a lot less crowded the rest of the way.


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## jtdunc

AndrwSwitch said:


> I hear if you blow by the first aide station, it's a lot less crowded the rest of the way.


So right on! Ever ride so far!


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## AndrwSwitch

LOL, nope. I've done a couple Centuries, but most of my events are races; the longest I've done is a 50-mile MTB race. Which actually takes a pretty similar amount of time.

I did blow by the first aide station the second time I did that race. Think I did last time I did a Century too, though it wasn't nearly as big a ride as STP.


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## Red90

So I was riding last night and I hit a nail which freaked me out as the nail was still stuck on the tire and hitting my frame. Needless to say, I pulled the nail out, replaced the tube and was on my way.

Question I have is if I should replace that tire. I don't want to run into a situation where I need a replacement tire when I'm doing stp. I'll have a couple of spare tubes. How do I know if the hole too big.


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## AndrwSwitch

Can you see the tube through it? Then it's too big. Basically your go/no-go is damage to the actual fabric casing of the tire. If some threads got severed, that's a structural problem. Most flats due to pieces of debris involve whatever it is working its way through in between threads, not actually cutting them.

I've had some success repairing tires with significant damage with patches for radial tires for cars. They're reinforced, unlike patches for bicycle tubes, so the patch doesn't stick out through the hole and get worn away, and it seems to help prevent cuts from growing. They're also very cheap, so it's not like spending $60 to repair a $60 tire or something.


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## JAG410

There's a lot of good advice in here, I just wanted to say thanks! This STP will be my first, and I'm planning on the 2 day, since it's my vacation and I want to stop and take pics, eat off the bike, etc. I feel fairly confident I could do the 1 day, but I don't want to miss the scenery while I suffer!

I'll be the dude from Minnesota riding a red All-City Mr. Pink with white fenders. Say hi if ya see me!


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## jtdunc

Just enjoy the ride. If you've trained and stick to your pace with good on-bike nutrition/hydration, you'll do fine.


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## Red90

AndrwSwitch said:


> Can you see the tube through it? Then it's too big. Basically your go/no-go is damage to the actual fabric casing of the tire. If some threads got severed, that's a structural problem. Most flats due to pieces of debris involve whatever it is working its way through in between threads, not actually cutting them.
> 
> I've had some success repairing tires with significant damage with patches for radial tires for cars. They're reinforced, unlike patches for bicycle tubes, so the patch doesn't stick out through the hole and get worn away, and it seems to help prevent cuts from growing. They're also very cheap, so it's not like spending $60 to repair a $60 tire or something.


Thanks, I can't really see the tube under it. It's a pretty small hole after the nail and I've done a couple of rides since then and it seems to be holding up. I'll bring a new tire with me just in case.


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## AndrwSwitch

If you're worried enough to bring a new tire, bring it on your wheel. You can always use the old one on your trainer.

I'm not exactly a weight weenie, but I try not to bring things I don't need, either...


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## Red90

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for their advice on this ride, especially AndrwSwitch to provide loads of info for training.

I just tuned up my bike yesterday, everything is running smoothly and should be ready to go for Saturday. Hopefully it won't be too hot. I'll make sure I drink lots of water and eat properly these next two days and sleep a lot. I'm doing a light ride tonight and will rest up for the ride on sat.


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## genux

Congratulations! And to think you originally aimed for doing this in two days.


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## Red90

FYI, I completed the STP in one day successfully. Took me till 10pm at night to get there as the sweltering heat had everyone stop and cool off. First half was at a decent pace before the heat started beating down on us. I got to Centralia by noon, but stayed a bit too long there waiting for the rest of the party of cyclist. 

I'd say this was a pretty eye opening experience in pushing my body to it's limits of endurance. Good thing there were quite a few strong cyclist that I leached onto and drafted to save my legs. Everyone was friendly and the support was good. Although I really got sick of eating sweet energy bars and electrolyte drinks throughout the day.


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## Clyde250

Nice Job! Its a powerful thing to push past your limits. 

On long rides like that, I try and avoid the really sweet stuff until the end for the same reason.


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