# Shimano 105 pedals...Q factor too low



## crockpot2001 (Nov 21, 2001)

I was having some issues with my knee using Speedplays. I switched back to Look style Shimano pedals and noticed immediatly that they are extremely close to the cranks. I've added 3 spacer washers but my duck feet still rub the crankarms. Are they narrower than the models of years past? Anyone else have this issue?


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## bmwjoe (Jul 15, 2012)

*Speedplay X helped my knees*

I had issues with lack of float and I went to the speedplay-X pedals and problem solved. My 54 year old knees are happy now.

Ride Safe,

Joe


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## twinkles (Apr 23, 2007)

Crank Brothers made an extender that goes between the spindle threads and the crank threads. I've never seen one in real life, but it looks to add close to 2 cm. I couldn't find the item on their website, so they might have stopped producing them.


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## wesb321 (Oct 1, 2011)

crockpot2001 said:


> I was having some issues with my knee using Speedplays. I switched back to Look style Shimano pedals and noticed immediatly that they are extremely close to the cranks. I've added 3 spacer washers but my duck feet still rub the crankarms. Are they narrower than the models of years past? Anyone else have this issue?



Same issue when I ride in normal shoes instead of the cycling cleats. The side of my shoe keept damaging the zip ties for the cadence magnet and rubbing the logo off my crank set. I compared them with my other Shimano pedals and they have a shorter bolt but a wider platform than the others. The 105 cleats that came w/ the pedals have some adjustment room left to right. I am using the 540's with the 105 cleats currently and it's fine until I acquire more wealth:thumbsup:


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

crockpot2001 said:


> I was having some issues with my knee using Speedplays. I switched back to Look style Shimano pedals and noticed immediatly that they are extremely close to the cranks. I've added 3 spacer washers but my duck feet still rub the crankarms. Are they narrower than the models of years past?


Shimano pedals have a larger platform than the Speedplays, so they may just appear to be closer to the crank. In other words, the distances from the _centers_ of the two pedal platforms to the crank may well be identical. As said, move the Shimano cleats as far to the inside edge of the shoe as you can. And make sure they are angled correctly—just a slight bit cleat rotation in relation to the shoe sole could allow your heel to strike the crank.

Also, "duck-footedness" is a matter of angle, not necessarily tread width. The Speedplay Zero pedal allows you to adjust degree of rotational float, so you can limit the movement of your heel into the frame. You can also adjust the center of the float range. That allows you to have as much or as little float as you need, but have the float range centered in such a way that your heel doesn't hit the pedal. Widening the pedal stance may just be a make-shift solution to an issue that should perhaps be addressed by looking at the rotational issue first.

/w


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

crockpot2001 said:


> I was having some issues with my knee using Speedplays. I switched back to Look style Shimano pedals and noticed immediatly that they are extremely close to the cranks. I've added 3 spacer washers but my duck feet still rub the crankarms. Are they narrower than the models of years past? Anyone else have this issue?


That's why eventually, I went from Look Keo Classic to Speedplay Zero.

I found it annoying when my heel hits the crank arm occasionally... so with the Zero's, I can adjust the float to eliminate it.


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## surferdude69 (Mar 28, 2010)

If you want to keep riding your shimano pedals, you could buy pedal extenders from Steve Hoggs bike fitting website. 

https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.co...011/06/PEDAL-EXTENDERS-20mm-25mm-and-30mm.jpg

I have the same problem as you, I use speedplay zero pedals with a longer than standard spindle. These are available in 1/8" 1/4" 1/2" longer than standard lengths... from speedplay dealers...


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

Kneesavers - Product Catalog

OR

Cants and wedges
(about halfway down the page)

I have used both brands without issue for ~3 years each...


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## RoadBoy1 (Oct 1, 2011)

OP, I would strongly advise against having three spacers on the axles of your pedals. You are running the very serious risk of pulling the pedal out of the crank which could lead to a nasty crash. One spacer is about as much as you can do with any degree of safety.

Be safe out there!


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## heavyhitter (Jan 2, 2009)

I have a friend that is having Q-angle issues and is currently using the Shimano 105 PD-5700 Black series pedals/cleats. She needs to have roughly 1/4" of spacers to bring her ankles/knees into the proper alignment. I want to help her purchase the correct Pedal Extender, but I am not sure if the 20mm or 25mm spacers are going to be too much. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time. 

Regards, 
Tim


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## DaveT (Feb 12, 2004)

In regards to Q factor, the Shimno cleats have some lateral, left/right, adjustment, which may help you.


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

heavyhitter said:


> I have a friend that is having Q-angle issues and is currently using the Shimano 105 PD-5700 Black series pedals/cleats. She needs to have roughly 1/4" of spacers to bring her ankles/knees into the proper alignment. I want to help her purchase the correct Pedal Extender, but I am not sure if the 20mm or 25mm spacers are going to be too much. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.
> 
> Regards,
> Tim


I think a 1/4" is too close for the extenders. Because the internal and external threads are the same size, you can't nest the internal thread inside of the external one. Therefore, if you take the length of the external thread (since you can see it) and add at least 1/8", that will be the minimum length. In looking at my pedals, the thread length appears to be about 7/16" long. So, it looks like the minimum extension would be at least 9/16" and possibly a bit longer.


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## heavyhitter (Jan 2, 2009)

flatlander_48 said:


> I think a 1/4" is too close for the extenders. Because the internal and external threads are the same size, you can't nest the internal thread inside of the external one. Therefore, if you take the length of the external thread (since you can see it) and add at least 1/8", that will be the minimum length. In looking at my pedals, the thread length appears to be about 7/16" long. So, it looks like the minimum extension would be at least 9/16" and possibly a bit longer.


Thank you for everyone's responses. Ok, so if 1/4" is too close for the extenders, those are out of the equation. Is it "safe" to keep using the 1/4" worth of washers in place or does it make sense to look at a different pedal system like the Speedplay with the longer spindles? If the Speedplays are the smartest option, does anyone know what size I should look at getting? The standard, 53mm, 56mm, or 59mm? I am not sure what the Shimano pedals measure for width in comparison to the Speedplays....thank you in advance. 

Tim


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

Using washers between the pedal and the crank is not really a good solution. The Rule of Thumb for thread engagement is the diameter of the thread plus one or two threads (can't remember which). That's what you need to develop maximum strength in the axial direction. However, pedals are loaded laterally. The threads for 2 and 3 piece cranks is 9/16" (dia) x 20 threads per inch. 20 threads per inch means that each thread represents .050" in linear travel. So, in theory, the engagement should be 9/16" + .050" + maybe another .050". But, since we are not concerned so much with axial load, the distance is shortened. As I said, the thread on my extender is 7/16" long. The female thread in the crank is longer; maybe 9/16" or slightly longer. Assuming the male thread on your pedal is 9/16" long, your engagement is down to 5/16". Under load, this may lead to damaging the female threads in the crank.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

As someone else mentioned. Double-check your SPD-SL cleats. They allow 3 or 4mm of left/right movement. So it is possible you tightened them down so they were too far outward on the shoe, which moved your foot inward towards the crank.


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

Yes, but if .250" is needed, that adjustment would only net about .160" at most...


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## heavyhitter (Jan 2, 2009)

flatlander_48 said:


> Using washers between the pedal and the crank is not really a good solution. The Rule of Thumb for thread engagement is the diameter of the thread plus one or two threads (can't remember which). That's what you need to develop maximum strength in the axial direction. However, pedals are loaded laterally. The threads for 2 and 3 piece cranks is 9/16" (dia) x 20 threads per inch. 20 threads per inch means that each thread represents .050" in linear travel. So, in theory, the engagement should be 9/16" + .050" + maybe another .050". But, since we are not concerned so much with axial load, the distance is shortened. As I said, the thread on my extender is 7/16" long. The female thread in the crank is longer; maybe 9/16" or slightly longer. Assuming the male thread on your pedal is 9/16" long, your engagement is down to 5/16". Under load, this may lead to damaging the female threads in the crank.


Thank you for the indepth reply...I am trying to figure out what my options really are...I know the washers are not the "Best" choice, and are only temporary for fitting purposes and to get things lined up. I would hate to have my friend purchase a Speedplay system, if we could somehow find the appropriate "extender" with male/female threaded design to account for 1/4" it would be great. But, it doesn't sound like there would be enough material with how close the two sets of threads would be and not strong enough. Therefore, reassuring that the availability of different lengths of spindles with the Speedplays would be the appropriate choice. Now to figure out if the 56 or 59mm choice would be correct. 

Tim


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

What you need to do is start measuring pedals with a 6" steel rule. That will be much easier to handle than a tape measure and will usually have both inch and metric scales. You'll have to guess a bit as to where the center of the pedal is with respect to where your foot position is. Speedplays, for example, are round so the center of the cleat will be the center of the circular body of the foot pad. Others may be trickier to sort out.


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## heavyhitter (Jan 2, 2009)

I just spoke with my LBS and they said the Shimano 105 and Speedplay Stainless Standard spindle lengths should be dead nuts. So, I am going ahead with the 59mm stainless setup for my friend and all should be golden. Thank you everyone for your time and information. 

Tim


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