# Wheels for heavy rider?



## chad.trent (Apr 4, 2016)

I searched through older threads but didn't really find an answer...

I have recently started riding again. I used to (4-5 years ago) ride pretty frequently. 200 miles a week or so. I've always been a clydesdale, but was getting pretty close to 200 pounds. 

Anyways, fast forward to today.... after a knee injury, new job, new baby, and a lot of other things going on, I've gained weight up to around 285. It's time to stop that, but I'm not sure my wheels (Mavic Kysrium 24/20 I think) are up to the task. So I'm thinking about a set of 32 spoke wheels so I won't have to worry about them. I hope that before long I can get back on my old wheels, so I don't want to spend a ton of money on a handbuilt set of wheels if I don't have to. Are there any good prebuilt 32h wheelsets out there? I need something in Shimano 10sp and for rim brakes.

If I have to get handbuilt wheels to get the strength and durability I need then I will, but I'm hoping these won't be under me that long, so I'm trying to keep it as inexpensive as possible without buying junk.

Thanks in advance for any help...


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

How quickly do you plan on losing 80+ lbs? Remember that most people think losing more than 1 lb / week is unhealthy. That's 1.5 yrs right there. 

Big rims, lots of spokes (32 min depending on how/where you ride) and big tires. Handmade for sure or you spend money on maintenance all the time.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Here you go. No need to go pre-built. You can get quality hand built for probably less than a pre-built wheelset.

$250-$350 depending on hubs. 32 or 36 spokes. 
Pure Commuter HD + Shimano 700c Wheel Set
The Pure Clyde Commuter is one of our strongest and most comfortable commuters. This wheel set is the perfect choice for heavier riders looking to log commuter miles.

$149.00 - $177.00. 32 spokes
Pure Commuter Wheel Set


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## chad.trent (Apr 4, 2016)

Well, I'm not sure. How quickly would I like to? ASAP. I honestly don't have a timeframe. I just want it to start going down, not up. I was riding my Mavics at 240 and had zero problems, but I know I was just pushing my luck. 

I tend to lose weight pretty fast at first when I start trying to do so. I'm sure a lot of people are like that. But I'm not in a huge hurry. The last set of wheels I bought were probably 7 or 8 years ago. So I'd like to get a couple years out of whatever I buy.

So if going handmade is the best solution, what should I be looking at? I've been out of it for a while so I don't know if there are any new brands out there worth looking at or stick with the old tried and true brands.


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## chad.trent (Apr 4, 2016)

tlg said:


> Here you go. No need to go pre-built. You can get quality hand built for probably less than a pre-built wheelset.
> 
> $250-$350 depending on hubs. 32 or 36 spokes.
> Pure Commuter HD + Shimano 700c Wheel Set
> ...


Thanks. I'll take a look at those.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

chad.trent said:


> Thanks. I'll take a look at those.


If you have any questions, contact them. They're very helpful.
I've got a couple of their wheelsets. They're rock solid.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

FYI this thread has been discussed 5 times in the past 5-6 months on this forum. Use the search tool and you'll find plenty of opinions at varying price points.


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## chad.trent (Apr 4, 2016)

deviousalex said:


> FYI this thread has been discussed 5 times in the past 5-6 months on this forum. Use the search tool and you'll find plenty of opinions at varying price points.


I searched first and came up with basically nothing. May be something on my end. For some reason whenever I search forums it's pretty hit or miss.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

chad.trent said:


> I searched first and came up with basically nothing. May be something on my end. For some reason whenever I search forums it's pretty hit or miss.


At the bottom of my page there is a box titled "Similar Threads" and it contains 5 links to "wheels for heavy rider" threads. Do you see it?


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## chad.trent (Apr 4, 2016)

Mike T. said:


> At the bottom of my page there is a box titled "Similar Threads" and it contains 5 links to "wheels for heavy rider" threads. Do you see it?


No, but I'm on mobile which is probably why.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

chad.trent said:


> I searched first and came up with basically nothing. May be something on my end. For some reason whenever I search forums it's pretty hit or miss.


Most forums have pretty bad search capabilities, it's better to use google and narrow the search to this site only.

https://www.google.com/#q=site:forums.roadbikereview.com+wheels+for+heavier+riders


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## chad.trent (Apr 4, 2016)

deviousalex said:


> Most forums have pretty bad search capabilities, it's better to use google and narrow the search to this site only.
> 
> https://www.google.com/#q=site:forums.roadbikereview.com+wheels+for+heavier+riders


Good idea. I'll try that next time.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

chad.trent said:


> Well, I'm not sure. How quickly would I like to? ASAP. I honestly don't have a timeframe. I just want it to start going down, not up. I was riding my Mavics at 240 and had zero problems, but I know I was just pushing my luck.
> 
> I tend to lose weight pretty fast at first when I start trying to do so. I'm sure a lot of people are like that. But I'm not in a huge hurry. The last set of wheels I bought were probably 7 or 8 years ago. So I'd like to get a couple years out of whatever I buy.
> 
> So if going handmade is the best solution, what should I be looking at? I've been out of it for a while so I don't know if there are any new brands out there worth looking at or stick with the old tried and true brands.


Look for aluminum alloy rims with brass eyelets around the spoke holes. Without these eyelets, the holes often start cracking and the spokes come loose. 

For over 200 pounds, I'd go for 36 spokes, cross 3. Hand built will ensure all spokes are equally tensioned, the key to holding the wheel true and making it last long. 

Get one of these "wide" rims for more, ahem, comfort and predictable handling. Specify 14 ga. stainless spokes with brass nipples, although some wheel builders will tell you 15 ga. is just as strong, maybe 14 ga. in back and 15 ga. in front. Use 'em with 28 mm tires for sure, going to 25s as the load lightens up.

Stay away from sealed cartridge bearings in favor of old style cup and cone. They're more maintainable. Unless, of course, Phil Wood. These hubs are bullet proof, by all accounts and will go forever. Ultegra would also be a nice hub, readily available on after market wheels. A builder won't give you a POS if he cars about his rep, though. 

Good luck!


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

It's not clear to me why you think the Mavics would be unsuitable for you NOW.

I feel your best bet is to fit the largest tires you can on the Mavic wheels and use them as-is. You'll never know how long they'll last if you don't try them.

Save the money.

However, if you MUST buy new wheels, just ask your local shop to order a set of pre-built generic 32 or 36 hole wheels from their QBP catalog. Ask for Dimension or Handspun brands. These wheels are just placeholders until you get your weight down and you'll appreciate they're less expensive; you won't mind abusing them.


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## chad.trent (Apr 4, 2016)

Peter P. said:


> It's not clear to me why you think the Mavics would be unsuitable for you NOW.
> 
> I feel your best bet is to fit the largest tires you can on the Mavic wheels and use them as-is. You'll never know how long they'll last if you don't try them.
> 
> ...


I was told by Mavic the limit was 225#. At 60 over that I'm afraid I'd be pushing my luck.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Fredrico said:


> Stay away from sealed cartridge bearings in favor of old style cup and cone. They're more maintainable. Unless, of course, Phil Wood. These hubs are bullet proof, by all accounts and will go forever. Ultegra would also be a nice hub, readily available on after market wheels. A builder won't give you a POS if he cars about his rep, though.


Why wouldn't high quality cartridge bearings work well? They are easily replaceable in most hubs so I don't see the issue.


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## Kid Canada (Aug 17, 2012)

Peter P. said:


> It's not clear to me why you think the Mavics would be unsuitable for you NOW.
> 
> I feel your best bet is to fit the largest tires you can on the Mavic wheels and use them as-is. You'll never know how long they'll last if you don't try them.
> 
> Save the money.


At his current weight 20/24 should not even be a consideration. I would not consider anything short of 32/32 and would even maybe suggest 32/36. This is a case of nothing to be gained by cheaping out on the amount of spokes and pretty much everything to loose. 

As tlg said, you can't go wrong with that wheelset. I have a pair of the Pure Aero with a 32/32 count and they are very well built and bomb proof.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

deviousalex said:


> Why wouldn't high quality cartridge bearings work well? They are easily replaceable in most hubs so I don't see the issue.


yeah, you're right. If you can get the bearings and have the tools to get the old one out and the new one in. And how do you tell quality?


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Put the Mavics on Ebay and get some good 32 spoke wheels. Even best case scenario with weight loss the Mavics will still suck and 32 spokes, made well, will still be a good set of wheels.

I weight 145 and 32 spokes definitely does not slow me down compared to my 24/20 set.


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## chad.trent (Apr 4, 2016)

Jay Strongbow said:


> Put the Mavics on Ebay and get some good 32 spoke wheels. Even best case scenario with weight loss the Mavics will still suck and 32 spokes, made well, will still be a good set of wheels.
> 
> I weight 145 and 32 spokes definitely does not slow me down compared to my 24/20 set.


I don't know. I've put probably 4000 miles on this set and at least half that on another set. Zero problems. I'm never going to be fast no matter what I do though.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Fredrico said:


> For over 200 pounds, I'd go for 36 spokes, cross 3. Hand built will ensure all spokes are equally tensioned, the key to holding the wheel true and making it last long.


^^^This^^^ As the saying goes - lightweight, strong, inexpensive....pick two. 4 extra spokes per wheel will not add significant weight anyway.



Fredrico said:


> Specify 14 ga. stainless spokes with brass nipples, although some wheel builders will tell you 15 ga. is just as strong, maybe 14 ga. in back and 15 ga. in front....


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am thinking double butted 14/15/14 gauge such as DT Competition or Sapim Race would work best. To those unfamiliar with wheelbuilding, this may seem counter intuitive. However, having the spoke thinner in the middle than at the ends allows for the most flexing in the middle and the least flexing at the ends where the spoke is the weakest.



Fredrico said:


> Ultegra would also be a nice hub....


Best bang for the buck in hubs. Not the lightest, but durable and a quiet freewheel. There are much higher end hubs, but at 3 and 4 times the cost too!


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Lombard said:


> having the spoke thinner in the middle than at the ends allows for the most flexing in the middle and the least flexing at the ends where the spoke is the weakest


It reduces some of the shock load to the most highly stressed part of the spoke - the head, or in the case of j-bend spokes, the bend.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

chad.trent said:


> I don't know. I've put probably 4000 miles on this set and at least half that on another set. Zero problems. I'm never going to be fast no matter what I do though.


That's less than one year for most serious cyclists. I'm not trying to imply they are going to explode or be a dick here and pick on your wheels but, seriously, those are not very good wheels and certainly nothing special enough about them to influence a decision now based upon your being able to ride Mavics when you reach the Holy Land. 

I get that money matters and if you need to go cheap then go cheap. But my only point is don't cheat yourself on the basis that you have Ksyriums waiting for you when you lose weight.
A decent set of appropriately build wheels will be better than Ksyriums now and when you lose weight.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Mike T. said:


> It reduces some of the shock load to the most highly stressed part of the spoke - the head, or in the case of j-bend spokes, the bend.



OK, yes, you explained it better than I did.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Jay Strongbow said:


> That's less than one year for most serious cyclists. I'm not trying to imply they are going to explode or be a dick here and pick on your wheels but, seriously, those are not very good wheels and certainly nothing special enough about them to influence a decision now based upon your being able to ride Mavics when you reach the Holy Land.
> 
> I get that money matters and if you need to go cheap then go cheap. But my only point is don't cheat yourself on the basis that you have Ksyriums waiting for you when you lose weight.
> A decent set of appropriately build wheels will be better than Ksyriums now and when you lose weight.


I actually knew someone who got 40K miles out of a pair of Ksyriums. However, I have known more people who have had premature failures such as spoke hole cracking and spoke breakage early on. And these people weren't clydes either. I am guessing these were once good wheels, but have fallen in quality.

Also worth noting is that there are different sub models of Ksyriums - SL, SLS, Elite, Equipe, Pro, WTS, etc., etc.

I will agree, nothing special about any of these, unless you are lucky enough to own the legacy version.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

Lombard said:


> ^^^This^^^ As the saying goes - lightweight, strong, inexpensive....pick two. 4 extra spokes per wheel will not add significant weight anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sure, butted spokes would be great. Wheel builder just has to be careful not to twist 'em in construction, a definite problem for the untrained, if my time wrenching taught me anything.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Fredrico said:


> And how do you tell quality?


How do you tell the quality of anything? Spend the $$ on a well known brand. I don't see anything wrong with cartridge bearings in my DT Swiss and White Industries hubs. The ones in the Novatec hub I had were only a totally different side of the scale, complete crap.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

deviousalex said:


> The ones in the Novatec hub I had were only a totally different side of the scale, complete crap.


But it depends on what the hub re-seller specs from the hub maker. There are levels of quality and even low-spec hubs can have the best quality cartridge bearing units retro-fitted by the owner. A person just has to read-up and learn about the levels of quality. Most bearing makers/distributors/sellers have info on their sites.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Mike T. said:


> But it depends on what the hub re-seller specs from the hub maker. There are levels of quality and even low-spec hubs can have the best quality cartridge bearing units retro-fitted by the owner. A person just has to read-up and learn about the levels of quality. Most bearing makers/distributors/sellers have info on their sites.


This was a Novatec branded hub. PowerTap uses Joytech (Novatec) hubs and their bearings suck too. They charge $170 to press in new bearings. It's a scam at this point.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Hmmm, the last bearings I bought for an Asian rear hub were about $5 per and it took maybe 5 minutes to replace all four.

Bearings


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## chad.trent (Apr 4, 2016)

I guess I've been lucky. I've never had to replace bearings in any of my road bike wheels. A couple on my mountain bikes but my road hearings have been trouble free.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Fredrico said:


> Sure, butted spokes would be great. Wheel builder just has to be careful not to twist 'em in construction, a definite problem for the untrained, if my time wrenching taught me anything.



FWIW, I built my 1st wheelset recently with 14/15/14 spokes. In the end when tensions were high, there was some windup for sure, but nothing that could possibly deform a spoke - rarely over 1/8 of a turn. I simply used the Mike T. "2 steps forward, 1 step backward" method with spoke flags so I could see exactly when a spoke would wind. Possibly the fact that I used DT Pro Lock nipples reduced the windup. As a n00bie wheelbuilder, I was willing to take any advantages I could get.

I have since become more ambitious and corrected a pair of slightly out of true factory wheels with bladed spokes. And let me tell you, if I didn't hold those with pliers, I could easily break or at least deform those suckers.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Lombard said:


> I simply used the Mike T. "2 steps forward, 1 step backward" method with spoke flags so I could see exactly when a spoke would wind.


Heck, it's not "my" method; just one that I mention on my wheelbuilding pages. I've never thought up anything original and I do it the easy way - steal stuff off the internet that I find.



> Possibly the fact that I used DT Pro Lock nipples reduced the windup.


I'm not so sure that those nipples helped you in the way that you think. In fact, they might even make windup worse due to their internal drag from the locking mechanism. They're "locking" nipples that prevent low-tension spokes' nipples from unscrewing. IMO they allow poorly built, low tensioned wheels to not have their nipples unscrew further. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Since I don't remember the last *non-locking* nipple to unscrew on me** I guess I must have at least the minimum amount of acceptable spoke tension in my wheels.

**I've only ever once used locking nipples and that was only because the importer asked me to try them and provided them for free.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Mike T. said:


> Heck, it's not "my" method; just one that I mention on my wheelbuilding pages. I've never thought up anything original and I do it the easy way - steal stuff off the internet that I find.


Really Mike, you're such a modest, humble guy. 



Mike T. said:


> I'm not so sure that those nipples helped you in the way that you think. In fact, they might even make windup worse due to their internal drag from the locking mechanism......


Hmmmm. They claim otherwise. One of the shop mechanics let me try turning one of each. The Pro-Lock nipple turned smooth and easy while the other one turned harder and "tinkled" as you were turning.

Disclosure: The shop was not the one who tried to sell me on Pro Lock. I had decided on them beforehand and the shop mechanic wanted me to get the feel of each so I would know what I was dealing with.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Lombard said:


> Really Mike, you're such a modest, humble guy.


To the bitter end Lom!



> Hmmmm. They claim otherwise. One of the shop mechanics let me try turning one of each. The Pro-Lock nipple turned smooth and easy while the other one turned harder and "tinkled" as you were turning.
> Disclosure: The shop was not the one who tried to sell me on Pro Lock. I had decided on them beforehand and the shop mechanic wanted me to get the feel of each so I would know what I was dealing with.


DT say this about their Pro Lock - 

"DT Pro Lock®, the patented liquid inside the nipple thread, which makes the connection between nipple and spoke extremely durable."

I think that any opinion on whether Pro Lock is a lube, a locking liquid or a combination of both is an assumption (or a personal finding) as they don't seem to explain.

Sapim's Secure Lock is a deformed thread that acts as a physical lock and makes the nipples somewhat harder to turn (my finding) and I'll assume, resistant to unthreading.

I just prefer to provide my own lube and use sufficient tension to keep 'em in place.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

Mike T. said:


> To the bitter end Lom!
> 
> 
> DT say this about their Pro Lock -
> ...


Same here. I smear a small drop of light machine oil on the spoke threads when assembling. The spokes tighten nicely without sticking, they detention easily when pressing sideways, and if the spokes sing, they won't unscrew in normal riding. Three years later, the spoke nipples will turn when you have to make a small adjustment. Why make it hard to turn the spokes after building the wheel? ut:


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Mike T. said:


> Hmmm, the last bearings I bought for an Asian rear hub were about $5 per and it took maybe 5 minutes to replace all four.
> 
> Bearings


Yes, for most hubs it's fine if you have the right tools. But for a PowerTap you void your warranty if you try and PowerTap charges $170 (PLUS SHIPPING!!!) for this service to press in crappy bearings.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

deviousalex said:


> Yes, for most hubs it's fine if you have the right tools. But for a PowerTap you void your warranty if you try and PowerTap charges $170 (PLUS SHIPPING!!!) for this service to press in crappy bearings.



That's another reason why I like good old Shimano cup & cone bearings. Easy to service and parts are cheap. Call me a Luddite.


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