# Sagan and Voeckler made this year's TDF bearable.



## usernametaken (Jul 26, 2010)

As if this year's Tour wasn't boring enough, try to imagine it without the performances of Sagan or Voeckler... Love em or hate em, at least they bring some excitement to the GC snooze-fest.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

You thought today's stage was boring?


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## erj549 (Jul 26, 2008)

It was pretty boring as far as the GC contest went. Movistar had a nice plan and played it well, but that was about the only interesting thing, IMO.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

I think you guys have a pretty high expectation for "interesting."

Valverde's ride was spectacular.

The conditions - fog, rain, wet roads - screwed with tactics and provided opportunities.

Voelker and Kessiakoff, fighting for every point.

Nibali getting dropped.

Froome and Wiggins at the top of the climb.

All of this stuff was interesting as hell.

Open your minds a bit and look for the beauty.


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

terry b said:


> I think you guys have a pretty high expectation for "interesting."
> 
> Valverde's ride was spectacular.
> 
> ...


I'll give you everything but Froome and Wiggins. They're the reason this tour has been such a snooze fest for the most part. If Froome would actually just give Wiggins "the look" and drop him, then it would be more interesting!


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

terry b said:


> You thought today's stage was boring?


yes it was. Not boring, superboring.

I woke up early thinking someone may do something, last chance for fireworks. Instead Nibali was asked to back off breakaway, Voeckler picked every polka dot point without much competition, Evans got dropped, Sky was super-strong and dropped everyone including Nibali, Valverde pushed on and Froome was told not to chase for stage win when he could.

For the elevation profile and expectations considering what is left for this tour, this was the most boring outcome to expectation ratio ever.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

55x11 said:


> yes it was. Not boring, superboring.
> 
> I woke up early thinking someone may do something, last chance for fireworks. Instead Nibali was asked to back off breakaway, Voeckler picked every polka dot point without much competition, Evans got dropped, Sky was super-strong and dropped everyone including Nibali, Valverde pushed on and Froome was told not to chase for stage win when he could.
> 
> For the elevation profile and expectations considering what is left for this tour, this was the most boring outcome to expectation ratio ever.


Ah well, in my book it was a pretty interesting stage. 

Grand Tours are pretty dull in general if the stuff you saw today doesn't light your fire. I honestly don't know what you guys expect, this is the nature of this kind of racing. 

Maybe you need a new sport?


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## grandprix (Jul 8, 2012)

A daily lament that I don't get. I haven't expected an exciting GC since Indurain, mainly because GC hasn't been exciting since Indurain. If you watch Discovery/Versus you had some commentary induced drama in Lance's wins, but it reality they were the same team game we are seeing today. This year was yet better than that because at least the Wiggins/Evans battle was a tossup at the start and proved out to be nothing.

Why do you all think excitement has to come from GC? Why don't you find excitement in Valverde and Pinot and Rolland doing what they do? (and Kern, who made Rolland's ride) Having been on the ground at the first 2 weeks of the TdF, folks on the road and in the towns find stage wins every bit as exciting as GC. I'm wondering why internet fans don't feel the same way?


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

terry b said:


> Valverde's ride was spectacular.


Meh. A former doper who could have won the Tour climbing well enough to win the stage? Nothing too exciting about that.



> The conditions - fog, rain, wet roads - screwed with tactics and provided opportunities.


Not much opportunities - Nibali was asked politely to go back and he did.



> Voelker and Kessiakoff, fighting for every point.


It was a fight as exciting as watching Mohammed Ali fight a drunken grandma.



> Nibali getting dropped.


was that really all that exciting? The rider in third cementing in his third place? I can't contain myself with excitement!!!



> Froome and Wiggins at the top of the climb.


You mean the part where Wiggins was holding Froome back and not letting him go after the stage win? Now, letting Froome go free, that would have been semi-exciting. Instead we saw an example of some of the most defensive, conservative team tactics ever, for no reason (it's not like Wiggo's jersey was threatened in any way today). 



> All of this stuff was interesting as hell.
> 
> Open your minds a bit and look for the beauty.


I enjoyed the scenery. That's about it.


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

I'm glad I didn't even bother recording the Tour like I normally do. Today's stage made me feel cheated and left me flacid from start to finish.

Other than Sagan and Voeckler, the best part of the tour was the Jens the farting trucker Road ID commercial.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

55x11 said:


> I enjoyed the scenery. That's about it.


So in other words, you can't see the beauty in any of it. That's a shame.

You know, the average winner's gap over the last 30 Tours is 3.8 minutes. So this one is actually a bit better than average based on time.

Where are these really exciting Tours everyone is talking about?


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## bballr4567 (Jul 17, 2012)

Damn, hard to please. 

The GC is actually tighter than it normally is. The TdF covers 21 days of racing so I don't see why people expect the same type of exciting stuff from 30 minutes of racing. These guys are racing for upwards of a 100 hours and are separated by minutes. 

Fromme didn't want to leave Wiggins. It was obvious. If he is in better shape next year for the TT he might be in the yellow instead of Wiggins. 

Voekler was insane yesterday and today. He knew what he needed to do to win polkadot and did it. 

Overall with the emergence of Sagan and Tejay and the dominant performance of team Sky this year was pretty out of the ordinary.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Retro Grouch said:


> I'm glad I didn't even bother recording the Tour like I normally do. Today's stage made me feel cheated and left me flacid from start to finish.
> 
> Other than Sagan and Voeckler, the best part of the tour was the J*ens the farting trucker Road ID commercial*.







But anyway, outside of a few snooze-fests (to be expected), this Tour has been pretty nifty in my book. 

Aside from the crashtastic first week taking out major players and blowing up teams, it was highly enjoyable.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

This Tour has been like most of them. Has not changed my view that the one day races and the Giro are more entertaining in general. But we have had entertainment. The descent off the port the bales was of the holy smokes variety. And the Evans/Burghart exchange on the tacks mountaintop was priceless. And let's not forget Cav the water carrier.


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## cnskate (Nov 8, 2011)

I found this years Giro a lot more exciting than the Tour. I've heard that is usually the case anymore? I wish I could have watched the Giro in HD on my TV instead of a crappy res version on my computer that I had to pay for.


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## lemonlime (Sep 24, 2003)

terry b said:


> So in other words, you can't see the beauty in any of it. That's a shame.
> 
> You know, the average winner's gap over the last 30 Tours is 3.8 minutes. So this one is actually a bit better than average based on time.
> 
> *Where are these really exciting Tours everyone is talking about?*


Those were back when Lance was winning.


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

I think last year's TdF was more suspenseful. When will the Schlecks attack... if ever? What is Contador's game? Is he bluffing? Can Cadel do it? How long will Voeckler keep the Yellow jersey? That kept me glued to the TdF last year from start to finish. 

This follows the alternating between Giro and Tour. When one is good the other is... mmmm less good. 

I know a pro rider who says Tommy V is not well liked in the peloton, but I see a guy who rides with heart and passion. He is a bit sloppy, but in paying attention to him for the past three years or so, I have really come to admire and anticipate his race performances. 

Sagan has been spectacular. You want to know exactly where he is at all times. His climbing surprised me. 

Wiggins has been conservative. The sparks between he and Froome are pretty interesting. 

This tour is fine, but not at great as last year.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

it has been okay. i think it will be remembered as the the year england won (and might win the olympics road and track) and we saw a lemond-esque ride by froome. aside from that, it will be forgotten unless some post-race things happen.

as far as voeckler goes, i still dont know what to make of him. sometimes i like him, others i feel he is a cheat. his robin-willimas-eating-a-lemon face cracks me up all the time. but i feel like i may need to visit another thread to speculate...
also, he kind irks me when he swats at fans. i know riders dont like crazy drunk fans running near them, but a few times this tour he looked like he went out of his way to swat at a few tifosi (whats the french version of that?). adding to his dramatic position, i guess.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

I agree..boring this year. Sagan did create some interest. Voeckler? I kept waiting to see him run into the crowd or something the way he kept looking backwards all the time..What a twitchy pro cyclist. Vangarndren was interesting. Hopefully he'll be a better 'next great American cyclist' than T. Phinney is turning out to be. Radio Shack team?...It's a bit sad to see riders age, I guess..Wiggins?...hmmm, he does ride strong, for sure, but he isn't very much fun to watch...

As TDF goes, I'd rate this one about 5 on my scale of 10 as exciting to watch... I will say they seem to be improving the media coverage every year...though I only really bothered to watch the last 20-30 kilometers of most of the stages, having lost interest in watching Sky and it's ho-hum leader after just a few days.


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## jtompilot (Mar 31, 2002)

Atleast when Lance was winning riders would attack at the bottom of the mountain or even with two climbs to go.

The sprinting has been good as well as the young riders. The Tour should be looking good in another year or two when the new young studs go at it.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

terry b said:


> I think you guys have a pretty high expectation for "interesting."
> 
> Valverde's ride was spectacular.
> 
> ...


I'd rep you if I could.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

lemonlime said:


> Those were back when Lance was winning.


Or Floyd's memorable last ride.


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## Snakebit (Mar 18, 2002)

If this is Le Tour, the winner just sitting in the rocking chair and riding across France unchallenged then it will not hold the interest of the American market. A handful of tacks may have destroyed the race this year. 

Bring back the druggists and put some thunder back in the race. Green shirts or polka dots are nice and meaningful for experienced cyclists but people can't understand how the race ends and the people who made all the headlines watch some guy whose name was mentioned twice be named the race winner. I don't believe that is what this race started out to be. LeMond/Hinault it weren't.


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

The route this year hasn't helped. It didn't create enough opportunity to create real gaps in the GC.


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## Snakebit (Mar 18, 2002)

coop said:


> The route this year hasn't helped. It didn't create enough opportunity to create real gaps in the GC.


I kinda thought that too.


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## Skewer (Sep 13, 2011)

This is my first TDF that I have watched every stage from the first day up to this point. Only 2 more days. I'm getting teary. Till next year.


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## GA1911 (May 4, 2010)

Yep, I'm going with the boring opinion.

I've watched every stage and will continue to watch it through the weekend, but no real GC fight takes the fun out of it. What I have liked; the scenery has been spectacular, the confirmation that pro bike riders (for the most part) are tough guys (Sorenson bleeding all over his bike with mangled fingers, but riding on for example, plus plenty of broken bones and other injuries), and the down hill runs (60 mph holy cow it looks fun).


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

The GC fight was boring from the start... The green was settled quickly too but many stages were quite fun to watch and saw some good racing. This year, the way to enjoy the Tour was to see each stage as a one day race IMO.


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## EuroSVT (Sep 15, 2011)

Dan Gerous said:


> The GC fight was boring from the start... The green was settled quickly too but many stages were quite fun to watch and saw some good racing. This year, the way to enjoy the Tour was to see each stage as a one day race IMO.


Quoted for truth! 

What has been on my mind is...will Goss having been shut down when he was relagated, with Cav saying that he was solely focused on the Olympics, is this going to leave people thinking Sagan won green by default? I don't, huge Sagan fan, so it's hard to be objective about things. But the way that Cav exploded today...can't help but wonder that if this wasn't an Olympic year what might have happened.


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## gusmahler (Apr 7, 2012)

EuroSVT said:


> Quoted for truth!
> 
> What has been on my mind is...will Goss having been shut down when he was relagated, with Cav saying that he was solely focused on the Olympics, is this going to leave people thinking Sagan won green by default? I don't, huge Sagan fan, so it's hard to be objective about things. But the way that Cav exploded today...can't help but wonder that if this wasn't an Olympic year what might have happened.


I'm a huge Cav fan. But honestly, it wouldn't have changed much. Cav was trying early, but got into a couple of accidents that still would have happened had he been riding for stage wins. He could have gotten a few more intermediate points in the 2nd week had he not been out of contention so soon. 

But Sagan has a style that is tailor made for the green jersey--able to get a lot of points on medium-mountain stages (where Goss, Greipel, and Cav would still have gotten zero points no matter how close the green jersey competition was) and still be top 6 on flat stages. Remember that Sagan got max sprint points on 1 and 3 and was second on 14 and none of Griepel, Goss, and Cav received any sprint points at the finish that day.


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

usernametaken said:


> As if this year's Tour wasn't boring enough, try to imagine it without the performances of Sagan or Voeckler... Love em or hate em, at least they bring some excitement to the GC snooze-fest.


I was thinking the same thing....
It has been almost as boring as when Indurain won.
In fact, Wiggins is this decade's Indurain but he needs to win a few more titles to be compared....


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## quadrat (Aug 26, 2011)

I'm not impressed by Voeckler. Looks like he's about ten minutes back from the winner in today's TT, another day off. His strategy was to take it easy in the first week and to fall so far back in the GC that no one would care about him being in breakaways, and so he got two or three days to work and shine. Europcar had no contender in the GC, and didn't lead the peloton for a second. Good they are usually not in the Giro.


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

*Mission Accomplished*



quadrat said:


> I'm not impressed by Voeckler. Looks like he's about ten minutes back from the winner in today's TT, another day off. His strategy was to take it easy in the first week and to fall so far back in the GC that no one would care about him being in breakaways, and so he got two or three days to work and shine. Europcar had no contender in the GC, and didn't lead the peloton for a second. Good they are usually not in the Giro.


I think Tommy and his team played it just right given that he was recovering from a knee injury while he rode the Tour. He's an astute rider, who saw the polka dot jersey as an achivable objective and put forth just the right amount of effort to claim it at the end.

As for is ITT performance today, why would he need turn himself inside out? He got what he wanted in the mountains and will be standing on the podium tomorrow.

Job well done!


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

quadrat said:


> I'm not impressed by Voeckler. Looks like he's about ten minutes back from the winner in today's TT, another day off. His strategy was to take it easy in the first week and to fall so far back in the GC that no one would care about him being in breakaways, and so he got two or three days to work and shine.


IIRC Europcar emerged from the ashes of a near bankrupt team and Tommy V signed up for them anyway. He's since repaid them with epic breakaways, 10 (?) days in yellow last year, artfully poached stage wins, and getting the polka dot jersey at the death of this year's Tour which showed intelligence as well as guts. 

As Retro says he had nothing to ride for today. If he took a "day off" he deserved it and I doubt he cares too much if anyone's not impressed by how he's ridden the Tour this year.



quadrat said:


> Europcar had no contender in the GC, and didn't lead the peloton for a second. Good they are usually not in the Giro.


What have most teams in the peloton done that compares? Cofidis - Lampre - Saur-Sojasun - Shimano - Lotto-Belisol - SaxoBank - even RSNT (team GC) and BMC (young rider) fall short. 

Only Sky and Liquigas (thanks to Sagan) can claim to have had better Tours IMO.


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## PRB (Jun 15, 2002)

cpark said:


> It has been almost as boring as when Indurain won.


No way....the Indurain Tours were much more exciting.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

well for any of you to young to witness Big Mig's tour dominance, this was quite reminiscent (as cpark said)
tis why I prefer the classics, it's win or not
finishing in the lead group means nothing


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## vandalbob (Dec 13, 2001)

*Agree with you i do*



cnskate said:


> I found this years Giro a lot more exciting than the Tour. I've heard that is usually the case anymore? I wish I could have watched the Giro in HD on my TV instead of a crappy res version on my computer that I had to pay for.


Giro was indeed more exciting, IMO. Decent Tour, not a great one, but decent. Great to see a Brit win one and the French, once again, on the outside although a couple of French riders provided some excellent racing. Team Sky was impressive. Methodical, calculated, robotic, but impressive.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*What do you mean?*



coop said:


> The route this year hasn't helped. It didn't create enough opportunity to create real gaps in the GC.


it allowed Wiggins and Froome to create huge gaps in the TTs
some of the biggest win margins in quite a while

the climbers were just unable to do any damage


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## Patty (Feb 12, 2006)

Snakebit said:


> If this is Le Tour, the winner just sitting in the rocking chair and riding across France unchallenged then it will not hold the interest of the American market. A handful of tacks may have destroyed the race this year.
> 
> Bring back the druggists and put some thunder back in the race. Green shirts or polka dots are nice and meaningful for experienced cyclists but people can't understand how the race ends and the people who made all the headlines watch some guy whose name was mentioned twice be named the race winner. I don't believe that is what this race started out to be. LeMond/Hinault it weren't.


I think it was just a perfect storm of boring elements coming together. Contador was out. The course was designed full of time trials and few mountian top finishes, The defending champion and the GC field was relatively weak. The Yellow Jersey only changed hands once. The final winner never made an attempt to win a single road stage. And the winning team was filled with jug-eared, chinless, Monty Python extras who wouldn't raise a hair outside of team orders.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Don't talk about Edvald like that.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Not the greatest Topur of all time, but plenty of good contests and fascinating cameos. 
It was clear almost from Day1 that Wigginsand Sky had the beating of Evans and BMC, and that was that as far as the GC was concerned. 
Sagan was fun to watch and seeing how Cav would do without his usual support was interesting for a Cav Fan like me. Greipel was rewarded for being a great warrior and Farrar got no reward because he is a wuss. A lot of teams and riders had a go and there were many moments of minor drama. AND in the case of Froome...... maybe a star was born?

Next year a lot of riders will have some points to prove - Tony Martin, Renshaw, Contador to name just three.


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