# What happened to Campy?



## SGMDWK (Jul 22, 2012)

When I rode in the '60s and '70s everyone aspired to ride Campangolo components. Nothing else would do. Flash forward to today. I have been riding again for a year and reading boards like this. Now, everything seems to be Shimano. It's all 105 or Ultegra, now. What happened? Did Campy get too expensive? How'd they lose their mojo? Or did they?

This is all just idle curiosity. I ride an entry bike with Sora shifters - way better than what I had in 1975, but totally lacking in cool factor, now.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Campy's still there. It's expensive, especially at the high end, in part because of the recent runup in the Euro-dollar exchange rate, but also because they opted to concentrate on the higher end. They lost a lot of their dominance starting in the 70's when the innovations (e.g., dual-control brake-shift levers) started coming from Shimano, but they responded quickly with their own designs, and their stuff is excellent throughout their range.

The price differential has been exacerbated by the long recession and attendant deflation in Japan, which has made the yen go down while the Euro was going up. So a lot more bike manufacturers spec Shimano on new bikes than Campagnolo, but there are bikes with Campy available. Example: this Bianchi model can be ordered with 105 (for $2000), or the comparable level Veloce (for $400 more). Your choice.
Vertigo 105 | Bianchi USA
Super Record is super expensive - something like $1000 more than Dura Ace.


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## charlox5 (Jan 31, 2011)

Where I think Campagnolo really lost ground was in the OEM market. On the retail groupset market Campy is competitive on price compared to Shimano and SRAM. But from what i've heard, Campagnolo was willing to write the OEM market off, for the sake of doing things their way and not get into a price war with shimano who could flood the market with volume. 

In the end, if you want to buy campagnolo, you buy a frame and get the components from the UK retailers...and pay less than the US Wholesale price. 

And while Campagnolo rolled out EPS first, I hear that it's not nearly as good as Di2, so I can imagine that they're losing ground in the electronic groupset market. I'm not really concerned--I was just telling someone that I'd prefer a campagnolo mechanical group to anything else at this time. 



JCavilia said:


> Campy's still there. It's expensive, especially at the high end, in part because of the recent runup in the Euro-dollar exchange rate, but also because they opted to concentrate on the higher end. They lost a lot of their dominance starting in the 70's when the innovations (e.g., dual-control brake-shift levers) started coming from Shimano, but they responded quickly with their own designs, and their stuff is excellent throughout their range.
> 
> The price differential has been exacerbated by the long recession and attendant deflation in Japan, which has made the yen go down while the Euro was going up. So a lot more bike manufacturers spec Shimano on new bikes than Campagnolo, but there are bikes with Campy available. Example: this Bianchi model can be ordered with 105 (for $2000), or the comparable level Veloce (for $400 more). Your choice.
> Vertigo 105 | Bianchi USA
> Super Record is super expensive - something like $1000 more than Dura Ace.


But if you were buying the components, you'd pay $2499 for DA9000 and $2699 for Super Record, which isn't even fair imo because I think Record compares favorably to DA (and costs $1699). (Prices were taken from Texascyclesport).

I think what it also means is that Bianchi (or other factories') costs to equip their bikes with shimano at the factory are way, way, way, way, way lower than what consumers might pay shimano directly.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

I'd say mostly business decisions, what JCavilia said above and additionally: 

Not capturing much of the OEM market.
Moving away from hub production and focusing more on complete wheelsets (including Fulcrum models).
It seems they've had difficulty marketing the different product levels/tiers (maintaining quality on the lowest now discontinued Mirage/Escape while not loosing sales of the higher priced Record and Chorus to lower end high quality Centaur -varies by year).
Hesitation to manufacture parts outside of Italy (meanwhile much of Shimano is coming out of Malaysia).


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Take a quick look at the product and it's price in the link below and that should explain what market segment campy is interested in (and to some extent what market segment in interested in Campy).

Campy Gold Plated Corkscrew ? American Cyclery


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

Can Italian Component Maker Campagnolo Survive? | Bicycling Magazine

They still have plenty of mojo in their market area.


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

I'll keep Campy alive. Campagnolo is the only cycling equipment I will use.


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

Jay Strongbow said:


> Take a quick look at the product and it's price in the link below and that should explain what market segment campy is interested in (and to some extent what market segment in interested in Campy).
> 
> Campy Gold Plated Corkscrew ? American Cyclery


Some Italian restaurants cater to the spaghetti and meatballs crowd; some cater to fine dining Italian style. If you have not ridden a bike with Campagnolo gear you have really missed out.


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## charlox5 (Jan 31, 2011)

David Loving said:


> If you have not ridden a bike with Campagnolo gear you have really missed out.


Coming from 5600, 7800, and SRAM Force, Centaur (the shitty QS version) was so marvelous i quickly abandoned force to get into a chorus/athena group. and i haven't looked back.

Granted i just took the leftover parts from the force group i was using to build another bike, but in a perfect world of unlimited resources, that bike would be equipped with Chorus or Record.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

David Loving said:


> Some Italian restaurants cater to the spaghetti and meatballs crowd; some cater to fine dining Italian style. If you have not ridden a bike with Campagnolo gear you have really missed out.


Right, and you won't see the wine opened with $850 corkscrews at that former.

I've ridden a bike with campy. Don't much care for the ergonomics and the thumb things. Don't see what I would have been missing out on if I hadn't but whatever.....


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

In the 60s and 70s, Japanese manufacturing was thought to be synonymous with cheap junk---sort of like Chinese manufacturing today (if not worse). We referred to it as "Shitmano".


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

SGMDWK said:


> When I rode in the '60s and '70s everyone aspired to ride Campangolo components.


Competition happened.
Shimano was just coming of age in the '70s. DuraAce was only introduced in 1972. And SRAM wasn't even founded until 1987.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

mpre53 said:


> In the 60s and 70s, Japanese manufacturing was thought to be synonymous with cheap junk---sort of like Chinese manufacturing today (if not worse). *We referred to it as "Shitmano".*


I still do.
I have a bike with Dura Ace on it, but only because I bought the entire group from a customer (who had bought it from my store) for $200 when he decided to switch to SRAM. My other road bikes are Campy...and always will be. 

People are cheap these days. They want quantity not quality. They want the lowest price possible, and don't understand (or care about) history, passion, or class. They want an appliance. Shimano 105 is the '$24.99 Mr.Coffee' of the bike world. Lots of people are happy with that. I'm not.


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## aa.mclaren (Jun 25, 2008)

What happened to Campy? The 1990s. MTBs that everybody demanded Shimano parts for, and as others say, no presence in OEM. But the lean years sharpened their R & D, they learned a lot from their mistakes without being over-invested in them. Higher-end Shimano SRAM and Campy is all worth riding if you adapt to the style of shifter, but the resale market generally seems stronger for used Campagnolo. That speaks to more than snob appeal, it is generally very durable gear that will outlast the other two major brands by years. Cassettes and chains aside of course.

The 9 speed stuff is where they recaptured the high bar for reliability. With the exception of QS and Escape mechanisms a few years ago (a bit of a downgrade but no worse than Shimano's soft-touch STI), Campy products have been the most robust mechanically over the past 15 years, also getting lighter (as have all the Manufacturers during that time).

One thing I'd say is they used to 'trickle down' performance features from Record to Athena etc, but more recently downgraded some of the design in lower end groups (2011 - 2014 power torque and power shift are not as good as earlier Ultra torque and Ultra shift that featured in 2009 Veloce and Centaur, and 2010 Athena). But these are still reliable and affordable parts considering. Some people don't mind one click per shift.

New cassettes and chains are a more expensive habit than with Shimano and SRAM though. Same with new chainrings eventually. Those are pricey consumables. 

Hard to say if they will recapture more of the OEM, that was the idea behind groups like Veloce, on up to Athena EPS. But Campy are no longer exclusively producing within Italy; a lot of their product including carbon cranks and wheelsets, are now made in Romania.


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

I have used Campy exclusively since 1989, so I am in favor of their products. The reason Campag has virtually no US market share falls squarely on the shoulders of Campagnolo USA. The service,price, and value of that distribution channel horrid. I have done work with a Belgian bike maker. It was interesting that over their, the OEM market is roughly 50/50 between the two (sram gaining entry though). Groupset for groupset, the cost between shimano and campy is actually quite similar. Campy USA gets in the picture, and its a different story.
Here is a great illustration on what value Campy USA brings:
Last year, I broke a spoke (one spoke) in my Campy Eurus wheel. I went to the LBS, and was informed that Campy USA would require me to by 16 spokes and the the cost was $160.00 ! And, oh, wait, they had none in the entire US of A! When I called them (as this was hard to believe), the recording said they would be on vacation for the next 3 weeks. 
I emailed a store in belgium and bought a spoke for the MSRP of 1.2 eurus. While I was at it, I had them throw in a few 11speed chain pins for 25 cents each ( in the US, I believe the price was 29 dollars each).

In a nutshell, that is why campy is nothing in the US.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Fignon's Barber said:


> While I was at it, I had them throw in a few 11speed chain pins for 25 cents each ( in the US, I believe the price was 29 dollars each).


My wholesale cost for Campy 11 speed chain pins:

*CAMPAGNOLO | CN-RE500*
*Part #:16263 CHAIN CON LINK CPY PIN 11s CN-RE500 5/PK*
<input name="chckComp[]" value="41644" style="width:18px;" type="checkbox"> Compare 



Genuine Campagnolo connecting link



Price: $27.99 pk

That would make them somewhere around $9.99/each.


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## SGMDWK (Jul 22, 2012)

Very interesting. Thanks for the detailed responses.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Campagnolo stuff is fine. Too bad it's the official equipment supplier of the Snob Who Bashes Everyone Who Uses Something Else Bike Club.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

Campagnello makes good stuff as does Shimano, each has their plusses an minuses. Reading the responses I can't help but recognize that part of the marketing of Campy makes use of "Snob Appeal".


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

I don't think Campy markets "snob appeal", Campy is deeply rooted in tradition and protecting their property. Cycling manufacturing is full of industrial espionage, for years it's been Campy vs. Asian manufacturing. Just the other day Cervelo announced they would trickle down some of their RCA tech to the R5 and have it manufactured at their Asian plant, however they will not pass on some of their higher end technology manufacturing as they know that it will be passed on and copied. While some on the outside view Campy users as snobs, those on the inside (to some degree) view their choice as being part of a tradition. 
In my case I've been using Campy for 30+ years, I also buy Ford pickups, and stick with ASUS MB's.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

PlatyPius said:


> People are cheap these days. They want quantity not quality. They want the lowest price possible, *and don't understand (or care about) history, passion, or class.* They want an appliance. Shimano 105 is the '$24.99 Mr.Coffee' of the bike world. Lots of people are happy with that. I'm not.


Understanding class isn't quite the same as thinking class is something that can be purchased in the form of a bike part. 

And some people's passion for cycling is with actually riding a bike not comparing it's parts to those on the bikes of others so they can feel superior.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

Like I said it's a very good product. And the market for any product is not homogenous , but snob appeal is very much part of branding. It sounds like you are not a good target of this type of marketing but others are. Of course since most of us are guilty of confirmation bias at one time or another, how often will we admit the true reason we bought a product even if it is only partly true.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

The Japanese make very good products. Shimano products are highly rated. We're not talking an also-ran. Shimano and Compagnelo are both highly desirable products. Choosing one over the other reflects many factors.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

I tend to think that those buying Dura Ace are also going for snob appeal... not so sure about those buying Veloce/Centaur. 

I go with Campy for the following reasons:
a) rebuildable, at least, the old Ergos were...
b) don't look like they belong on Robo-cop's bike (i.e. they look a hell of a lot better on a steel frame).
c) better feel (personal preference).
d) looks better standing next to my wine cellar


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## armstrong (Jul 9, 2013)

mikerp said:


> Can Italian Component Maker Campagnolo Survive? | Bicycling Magazine
> 
> They still have plenty of mojo in their market area.


I can tell you that this article makes me want to tear down my Cinelli and rebuild it entirely with Campy.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

Good article. At work all the under 30 year old's talk about is SRAM


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

I did 280 km with SRAM Red 22 last weekend. I'd take Dura-Ace any day...
But Chorus would make me happy.


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

> I go with Campy for the following reasons:
> a) rebuildable, at least, the old Ergos were.


 I've never understood this. What and why are you rebuilding? I ride 8000-10,000 miles a year on a couple of bikes with Dura Ace 7800 since 2006, and they still shift and feel great. What's funny is I bought more 7800 stuff as crash replacements when it was on close-out for the 7900 stuff. I still have a brand new, un-opened 7800 group set.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

Dr_John said:


> I've never understood this. What and why are you rebuilding? I ride 8000-10,000 miles a year on a couple of bikes with Dura Ace 7800 since 2006, and they still shift and feel great. What's funny is I bought more 7800 stuff as crash replacements when it was on close-out for the 7900 stuff. I still have a brand new, un-opened 7800 group set.


Gunked up STIs. Too many friends with a set of 105 or Ultegra paper-weighs laying around. I want something that if it gets gunked-up, I can take it apart, clean it, and actually put it back together. I'm not a fan of spraying WD-40 and praying to zen gods. Glad yours have been durable, I'm not anti Shimano by any stretch (but they do look like Robo-Cop).


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

headloss said:


> Gunked up STIs. Too many friends with a set of 105 or Ultegra paper-weighs laying around. I want something that if it gets gunked-up, I can take it apart, clean it, and actually put it back together. I'm not a fan of spraying WD-40 and praying to zen gods. Glad yours have been durable, I'm not anti Shimano by any stretch (but they do look like Robo-Cop).


At my tiny shop I've replaced 7 sets of STIs so far this year that didn't respond to soaking/flushing. Think how many that could be across the US....


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