# CR1 Pro vs. Foil R2



## rdblatch

A bit of a noob here, so looking for some help.

I've always been a specialized guy (both road and mountain). I'm ready to upgrade from my 2005 Specialized Allez Elite. I've been eying the SL3 roubaix expert, but it's pretty expensive (~3700 or so after taxes) and I'm starting to wonder if there are better options for less or similar $$.

Anyway, a friend suggested I check out Scott and I'm very impressed with everything I've read on the CR1 Pro......and, it looks INCREDIBLE.

Same with the Foil R2. Although a little more expensive. Reviews have been very good and again, it looks INCREDIBLE.

My dilemma is that nobody has any CR1 Pros in an XXL (61cm) including Scott, so I haven't been able to ride either one. I'm stuck with waiting for the 2012 and paying the (I assume) premium price for basically the same bike. Or, I can get a Foil R2 for $3600 including tax. I'm interested to know your opinions on Foil R2 vs. CR1 Pro. I don't race, but I like to do long rides (40-70 miles) on the weekend and with quite a bit of climbing. While the Foil is probably a bit less comfortable for long rides, I suspect it's faster on the flats and downhill. I wish the Foil R2 came with Ksyrium Elites instead of Cosmic Elites.......if it did, I think I'd jump on the Foil.

Any other pros/cons? Reviews from people that have ridden both? Or either?

Thanks.


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## the_gormandizer

I own an '08 CR1 and a '10 Addict RC. Both are admittedly different bikes to the ones you are considering. I use the the CR1 for training and crits, the Addict for road races. I would choose the Addict over the CR1 any type of riding; it's a rocket ship.

Over time, the CR1 has become more of an "Endurance Bike". I rode a '10 model and did not like the way it felt compared to my '08 or the Addict. The question might come down to one of fit; do you need a taller head tube or not?

I lust after the Foil, so I know what my choice would be. You can always upgrade your wheels. That's what fleabay is for!


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## rdblatch

Thanks gormandizer,

I'm itching for a new bike and I'm starting to feel like 3600 including tax/shipping for the foil R2 is a steal. It's just a bit risky because I haven't been able to test ride anywhere....

Has anyone had an opportunity to ride the Foil R2? Impressions?

Thanks.


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## ghostryder

When you go for the foil, please write a review of how it rides. That would be my choice.


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## wassler

Hi,

may I ask why you consider the foil and the roubaix? they are quite different rides. the Roubaix is more geared towards endurance and comfort, pretty much like the scott CR1. Where the Scott Foil is more geared to roadracing. Like the Speicalized venge and Tarmac.

Kind regards,

Wassler


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## tdietz87

Bike Radar has a review on the Foil. It is definitely a beautiful machine built for speed. I agree with wassler, the Roubaix is pretty different. 

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/road/product/review-scott-foil-team-issue-12-44885/


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## rdblatch

wassler said:


> Hi,
> 
> may I ask why you consider the foil and the roubaix? they are quite different rides. the Roubaix is more geared towards endurance and comfort, pretty much like the scott CR1. Where the Scott Foil is more geared to roadracing. Like the Speicalized venge and Tarmac.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Wassler





> I agree with wassler, the Roubaix is pretty different.


Thanks guys. Good question......I probably should have been more clear.

Until now, I've been a loyal specialized customer and kind of felt that my next bike would HAVE to be a specialized. I'm getting over that and starting to branch out a bit.

While I was definitely leaning Roubaix, Tarmac was also on my list (really my only two specialized options). My biggest concern with Tarmac? They don't make an SL3 compact (not sure I'd know the difference between SL3 and SL2 - but that's another conversation). The SL3 Roubaix expert is a compact and right in my price range (~$3500). 

I'm looking for a ride that is reasonably comfortable for 40-70 miles (maybe a century here and there) AND fast. I was initially drawn to the CR1 Pro, but when researching, I found the Foil R2 was also in my price range. Comfort sounds nice, but I also don't want something overly plush either. My Allez is more of a race geometry than comfort, so I suppose that's what I'm used to. Not sure how either CR1 or Foil compares to the Allez since I haven't been able to test ride either.

So, now I'm torn once again. I think I've crossed Roubaix off the list.....mostly because I'm so impressed with what I've read on Scott and I'm ready to try something new. Nothing wrong with specialized, I just don't want to be tied to them anymore. 

I'm looking forward to hearing about the 2012 CR1s next week (and price). From what I've read on the Foil, it's more race than performance/comfort, but is a nice balance and would also be applicable for "generally fast riding, time trial races, triathlons, sportives, basically anything road based… But not touring!" (can't post hyperlinks yet because I'm new to the forum, but here's the URL that quote came from -- license.citruslime.com/cs/blogs/bktr/archive/2011/05/20/scott-fo1l.aspx)

Thoughts?

Thanks.


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## wassler

Well.. I own a CR1 elite (sram rival compact) though i have little experience with race bikes I think it's pretty fast and comfortable.; it's not a pure race machine anymore from the advertising, but i like it a lot.

Maybe you should just go try some bikes. Nothing tells more than a testdrive.

Kind regards,

Wassler.


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## shokhead

rdblatch said:


> Thanks guys. Good question......I probably should have been more clear.
> 
> Until now, I've been a loyal specialized customer and kind of felt that my next bike would HAVE to be a specialized. I'm getting over that and starting to branch out a bit.
> 
> While I was definitely leaning Roubaix, Tarmac was also on my list (really my only two specialized options). My biggest concern with Tarmac? They don't make an SL3 compact (not sure I'd know the difference between SL3 and SL2 - but that's another conversation). The SL3 Roubaix expert is a compact and right in my price range (~$3500).
> 
> I'm looking for a ride that is reasonably comfortable for 40-70 miles (maybe a century here and there) AND fast. I was initially drawn to the CR1 Pro, but when researching, I found the Foil R2 was also in my price range. Comfort sounds nice, but I also don't want something overly plush either. My Allez is more of a race geometry than comfort, so I suppose that's what I'm used to. Not sure how either CR1 or Foil compares to the Allez since I haven't been able to test ride either.
> 
> So, now I'm torn once again. I think I've crossed Roubaix off the list.....mostly because I'm so impressed with what I've read on Scott and I'm ready to try something new. Nothing wrong with specialized, I just don't want to be tied to them anymore.
> 
> I'm looking forward to hearing about the 2012 CR1s next week (and price). From what I've read on the Foil, it's more race than performance/comfort, but is a nice balance and would also be applicable for "generally fast riding, time trial races, triathlons, sportives, basically anything road based… But not touring!" (can't post hyperlinks yet because I'm new to the forum, but here's the URL that quote came from -- license.citruslime.com/cs/blogs/bktr/archive/2011/05/20/scott-fo1l.aspx)
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Thanks.


You are talking about different bikes. Stiffer and fast vs more relaxed. Try looking at this.


http://www.velonews-digital.com/velonews/201106?folio=84#pg86


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## charding99

*Scott Foil ride quality*

I test rode a Scott Foil and was given the chance to go on a few longer rides. The longest was 52 miles with a lot of climbing. I currently own a 2010 Scott Addict and a 2010 Cervelo S3. After the test ride, I am pretty sure that I will be getting a Scott Foil. I did not feel a huge difference in ride quality from my current bikes to the Foil. However, the Foil seemed to handle better for me than my other bikes. It was more predictable in corners and tight handling conditions. It is definitely more stiff in the front-end than the Cervelo S3. And, I really like the flat-black look. My only decision will be whether I get one of the models that have not been put onto the Scott website yet. The dealers should be able to tell you that they will be releasing an Ultegra Electronic, a SRAM Rival, and a Shimano 105 Foil. I might get a 105 bike because it is going to be cheaper than the cost of a frame-only, and then strip off the 105 and put SRAM Force on the bike. Also thinking about the Ultegra Electronic which is supposed to price out at about $4800. I think the SRAM Rival is about $3200 and the 105 bike is under $2700. If I was not a SRAM rider on all my other bikes, then I would just buy the Ultegra mechanic since my shop has one on the floor.


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## charding99

Oh, forgot to mention that the SRAM Rival bike will be yellow. If it was the flat black bike, then I would get it.


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## ejprez

I would get the HMF carbon Foil, I read that it is as stiff as the HMX just heavier, which I think could be 100-200 gram more. The Rival bike is probably the best bargain if you need a whole bike, kind of on the fence about the yello, I say probably cause Ultegra is nice stuff, just not crazy about the shifting. I came from sram and am now on campy and use three gears changes in a sweep a lot. Anywho I like the white paint of the Ultegra Di2 and 105, the added weight over the HMX Foil will have no affect on my racing, mostly crits, and actually it would be lighter than my Ridely.


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## bformanes

I'd definitely go FOIL over CR1 personally; I race but I also train somewhere in the neighborhood of 150 to 300 miles a week. 

CR1 is stiff; don't get the impression its a noodle just because of the "performance" geometry, its just smoother and less harsh than the addict. My co-workers are all hopping on the FOIL, upgrading their Addicts.

My advice for a more "comfy" ride, 25mm tire in the back, just a tad more compliant than 23mm.


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## ARE.

I'm thinking about buying a Scott; my local LBS just picked up the brand recently. I haven't been able to test ride a F01l, and I'm not sure when one will be avalable to do so. I need some perspective from those who have ridden them. The reviews are largely saying that the frame is harsh and transmits a lot of road vibration through the seat and handlebars; since I live in an area with a lot of chip sealed roads, this is something I think about. However, is the harshness worse than an aluminum frame, for example, a CAAD10, or is it only rough in relation to other CF race frames?


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## rdblatch

I finally had a chance to ride a CR1 Pro today (2012). They've been really hard to find in my size (XXL).

I rode for about 15 minutes, mostly uphill.

First impression: The bike is really beautiful. Love the look.
Ride felt really good. As soon as you get out of the saddle, it feels like every pedal stroke is super efficient and really propels you forward.
Incredibly smooth. I have 25s on my current bike, and this thing was just as smooth or smoother with 23s.
The one thing I didn't like: It was a little cramped. That might be because my LBS replaced the stock stem with a slightly shorter one to try and match the fit on my existing bike. I think that might have been overkill. Regardless, the geometry definitely felt a bit more relaxed than I'm used to with my Allez. I suspect the downside of the Foil will be comfort and wheelset more than anything else, but as one other poster mentioned, you can always throw 25s on for longer rides.

My LBS is selling the CR1 Pro for $3K, but they give a discount for several of the local bike clubs, so I could get it for $2625. That seems like incredible value to me for a great, light weight frame, ultegra, and Ksyrium Elites. I don't think any other brand can touch that.

For now, I think I'm going to hold off purchasing until I have an opportunity to test ride the Foil 20. Looks like they haven't produced any Foil 20s XXL compact yet, so I may have a bit of a wait. That should give me the winter to save up.

BTW - take all of the above with a grain of salt. I'm currently riding a 6 year old aluminum Allez Elite.......so this would be a big upgrade for me and I've done very little test riding so far. Your mileage may vary.


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## Wallstreet

I spent many hours this Thurs testing different bikes, I come from a Swiss bike with customized ultegra. I needed more speed, agility & prowess.

The CR1 Pro with it's 2012 guise is just a 2011 with a difference in paint. It feels the same. Very comfortable & race-bred. I didn't like it enough. You have to try them all. To fall in love with your next.

The SuperX Cannondale was dull, slow feeling, super comfy but not responsive enough. Orbea & Kuota were similar.

The Foil is a pretty bike in the fuise Foil R2. It was also on my mind to guage it's prowess vs the Adicct R2 & Addict R3. The foil is stiffer than the Cr1 but not noticeable on a daily ride. It probably will aid you in seconds for it's aero features but in reality it's for thoroughbred racers. Our body is 65% or?? More affecting the aerodynamics - so maybe using that razor may help more!!! & tight clothing! 

The racers I talked to didn't feel it was as good as the bikes it replaced, the aptly named Addict. It took a longtime to replace.

So after great reflection I fell in love with the Addict. It is very responsive, snappy, in carbon 150g lighter than the R2 red. I went for the R3, stripped down then ultegra added, lighter weight 125g seat. 

The Foil R2 is a great bike, however, for me those few shaven seconds on a long race are not needed. The Addict lighter is lightening fast, responsive, able to climb, reserve energy, fast both up & down. Comfort was excellent, it needs to be measured & fitted to you. 

Whatever you decide, look at try before you buy. I have tried many but fell in love with the last of a heritage in the Addict R3.

Good luck!


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## oldcrank

Wallstreet said:


> I spent many hours this Thurs testing different bikes, I come from a Swiss bike with customized ultegra. I needed more speed, agility & prowess.
> 
> The CR1 Pro with it's 2012 guise is just a 2011 with a difference in paint. It feels the same. Very comfortable & race-bred. I didn't like it enough. You have to try them all. To fall in love with your next.
> 
> The SuperX Cannondale was dull, slow feeling, super comfy but not responsive enough. Orbea & Kuota were similar.
> 
> The Foil is a pretty bike in the fuise Foil R2. It was also on my mind to guage it's prowess vs the Adicct R2 & Addict R3. The foil is stiffer than the Cr1 but not noticeable on a daily ride. It probably will aid you in seconds for it's aero features but in reality it's for thoroughbred racers. Our body is 65% or?? More affecting the aerodynamics - so maybe using that razor may help more!!! & tight clothing!
> 
> The racers I talked to didn't feel it was as good as the bikes it replaced, the aptly named Addict. It took a longtime to replace.
> 
> So after great reflection I fell in love with the Addict. It is very responsive, snappy, in carbon 150g lighter than the R2 red. I went for the R3, stripped down then ultegra added, lighter weight 125g seat.
> 
> The Foil R2 is a great bike, however, for me those few shaven seconds on a long race are not needed. The Addict lighter is lightening fast, responsive, able to climb, reserve energy, fast both up & down. Comfort was excellent, it needs to be measured & fitted to you.
> 
> Whatever you decide, look at try before you buy. I have tried many but fell in love with the last of a heritage in the Addict R3.
> 
> Good luck!


Excellent post, Wallstreet.
You certainly did your due diligence, and can be sure you made the right choice for yourself.

Scott is trying to hype the Foil to the max, but a few people I've talked to, echo your sentiments, and prefer the aptly named Addict.

The 2012 CR1 range has not changed, across the board, as you say, just different paint, and not as attractive to my eyes, as the 2011's.

Enjoy your new ride, and let's see some pix!


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## Rob

Actually, the 2012 CR1 Comp has Tiagra components rather than last year's 105 but some have said that the frame has been upgraded - not sure about that.


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## oldcrank

Rob said:


> Actually, the 2012 CR1 Comp has Tiagra components rather than last year's 105 but some have said that the frame has been upgraded - not sure about that.


Oops,ur right.


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## Wallstreet

oldcrank said:


> Excellent post, Wallstreet.
> You certainly did your due diligence, and can be sure you made the right choice for yourself.
> 
> Scott is trying to hype the Foil to the max, but a few people I've talked to, echo your sentiments, and prefer the aptly named Addict.
> 
> The 2012 CR1 range has not changed, across the board, as you say, just different paint, and not as attractive to my eyes, as the 2011's.
> 
> Enjoy your new ride, and let's see some pix!


I enjoyed my 6 hours of testing a variety of bikes, I like being thorough, sometimes it's a false economy to go for quick-fire sales - I truly learned a lot from the LBS who were also racers. Passionate & full of data. 

Two of the racers have Addicts the flamboyant one the brighter Red R2 & R1, but the smarter weight weenie went for the Addict R3 in the carbon base without paint thus 150g lighter approximate & if one adds the Ultegra groupset from the R2 then you get a far superior set! Than the R2 in a muted more favored colour. 

I was disappointed with alot of the more expensive brands, they didn't feel like the Addict in terms of responsiveness & agility to just flick the bike with a hip movement or steering. Both racers clearly said that their Addicts were every bit as good as the Foils, they didn't want to spend extra yet. There are far few Addicts out there - for few for all-around hill climbing & downhill speed or agility into & through corners no other will thrill. This bike has put a large passionate impression on me. Such a rarity. 

Enclosed are pictures of the Addict R3 stock, my bike will have all parts stripped & rebuilt:

1. Light saddle 125g, Selle (black)
2. Black tape
3. Dura Ace CL - 24 rims - 1400g
4. Full Group SRAM Force
5. White brake hoods
6. Durano S Schwalbe - White 

Dreaming every day about this bike to arrive, should be built by next week!  

Interesting comments that others say the same. Take great care.


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