# Weight of your steel ...



## TREKY (Jan 1, 1970)

...I'm curious to find out the weight of your steel bike.My 531 lugged is just below 22 pounds without seat pack.I'm not that much of a weight weenie or I probably would'nt ride steel.To me the ride is much more important than a few extra pounds.Please give a decription of your bike and overall weight.


----------



## Nessism (Feb 6, 2004)

*Weight*

My custom Dedacciai Zero Uno lugged frame/fork weighs about 5.25 lbs. Built up with Dura Ace 9 speed, the total weight is 19.25 lbs.; more than light enough in my opinion.

The key thing many people forget is that the frame is only one part of the total bike. Modern aluminum/carbon frames typically weigh in the 2.75 lbs range while classic steel frames are about 4.0 lbs. The 1.25 lbs. difference is insignificant for the most part considering the total bike + rider weight is the important thing.

For example: Typical rider weight of 160 lbs., steel bike weight of 20 lbs. vs. carbon bike weight of 18 lbs.

Carbon bike + rider = 178 lbs.
Steel bike + rider = 180 lbs.

Total difference = 1.1% - Insignificant

Ed


----------



## nazgul (Feb 12, 2002)

My steel Fondriest Status Carb (58) weighs 19 lbs with mostly Dura Ace components and campy eurus wheels.. It is about 3 ounces lighter than my Cannondale R2000 with Ultegra and proton wheels! It could lose another pound with a few upgrades but I like it as it is.


----------



## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

*got a couple*

Custom Strong done in Ultra Foco and a carbon rear triangle with DA9 and Ksyriums weighs about 17.8
Bianchi Boron XL with Chorus and OP/Chorus wheels, about 19
Pinarello Opera with Record and Nucleons weighs about 18.5

Expecting a custom Vanilla done in semi-compact withTrue Temper S3. Planning to build it with Record and Velomax Ascents. We'll see what it weighs.


----------



## HeronTodd (Feb 7, 2004)

*Superlight Steel?*

In general, I think that bike weight, and frame weight in particular, are not all that important. That said, I occasionally enjoy playing the weight weenie game. I built up a lugged, steel Heron Road frame into a 17.3-pound bike with a carbon fork and other lightweight goodies. Had I swapped in the Zipp wheels I got later, it would have been well under 17 pounds. The bare frame was 4.25 pounds. Complete retail price of this concoction was about $4000 or what a 17-pound Specialized or Trek was going for then (2 years ago).

Think of it this way, take the components of a 15-pound bike off of its 2.25-pound frame and put them on my Heron. 17 pounds.

Just for fun, I recently weighed a 1971 Raleigh International I just bought. Even with the heavy Brooks saddle, Weinmann center-pull brakes, and lots of chrome on its 531 frame, it came in at 22.5 pounds.


----------



## Dinosaur (Jan 29, 2004)

*My MXL*

My Colnago Master X-Light weighs 19.74 pounds, sans the water bottle cages.

My Klein Quantum Race weigh somewhere in the 17 pound range.

I notice the difference with acceration and climbing with the al bike, but I think it all might be in my head. It just feels faster.

I weigh 195-200, so weight is not a big concern for me. The owner of my LBS is a big guy (250, big- not fat) and he rides a Mondonico Foco, which is heavier than my MXL because he has a steel fork. He is going over to a complete cf bike to cut weight, but I don't see it.

I found the skinny guys are better climbers, but what goes up, must come down.


----------



## Elefantino (Jan 28, 2004)

Serotta CSi, 62.5, full Record, 20.12 pounds. CXP30 wheels are a little heavy; if I went with Ksyriums or Campys I could get it sub 20.


----------



## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

*Lemond Zurich Frame re-equipped in campagnolo chorus*

Open pro wheels, Thomson stem and post. Have no idea what it weighs.


----------



## Anvil (Feb 4, 2004)

*Lightest steel*



TREKY said:


> ...I'm curious to find out the weight of your steel bike.My 531 lugged is just below 22 pounds without seat pack.I'm not that much of a weight weenie or I probably would'nt ride steel.To me the ride is much more important than a few extra pounds.Please give a decription of your bike and overall weight.


Using currently available tubesets and building techniques, the lightest steel bikes will weigh about 1/2 to 3/4's of a pound more than the lightest aluminum/ti/cf bike. No superlightweight frame, of any material, is a good idea for recreational riders.

Go here, http://tinyurl.com/34ggd, and click on "frame weight wars" for more info. This steel bike, http://tinyurl.com/2l2sv, a 55, weighed 15-odd pounds, built out of Deda EOM16.5. This one, http://tinyurl.com/2wnha, is a 58 and weighs about 17 even as you see it. At the other end of the spectrum, this one, http://tinyurl.com/37uby, is full Columbus MAX lugged with a MAX fork and it weighed a little over 22 as pictured with Campy Record 10 Triple (I know, the saddle is high, I had it set for me, not the customer, for the test ride after building it up). Look around on the net, there's lot's o' builders making wicked cool steel bikes. You can check out a sample of them on my links page: http://www.anvilbikes.com/story.php?module=listLink.


----------



## russw19 (Nov 27, 2002)

*Stunning!*

Those are some of the nicest frames I have seen in a very long time. I really like the looks of Greg Lepore's frame. I love the bottom bracket lugs. Do you have any pics of the entire frame? It's gorgeous!

Lovely work, you should post a few pics here to show off your work. I don't think anyone would care, as they are great looking bikes. Besides, it's not spam if it was requested, and I am requesting pics of Greg's retro frame.

Russ


----------



## Major Kong (May 14, 2003)

*My Crown Jewel*



TREKY said:


> ...I'm curious to find out the weight of your steel bike.My 531 lugged is just below 22 pounds without seat pack.I'm not that much of a weight weenie or I probably would'nt ride steel.To me the ride is much more important than a few extra pounds.Please give a decription of your bike and overall weight.


I had my weighed just the other day - 18.7 w/ pedals, cages, and heavy training tubes/tires.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I ride a 84 Trek with Reynolds 531cs tubing and fork, and all Suntour Superbe components and bottle cages but no bottles. In it's racing form it weighed 20.5 (can't recall the exact ounce part), and that was with tubulars. Now the weight is up to 22.3 pounds due to the addition of clincher rims and tires, original TTT seat post was a tad lighter than the Superbe but the TTT broke 2 years ago so used the Superbe that was in storage, Superbe headset instead of the ugly lighter plastic headset, longer stem-an old age thing, wider handlebars and a Brooks saddle. 

I believe this bike could get down to about the 18 pound range and maybe a tad below if I went back to the racing stuff except use the modern Carbon Fiber parts including the fork. The fork alone would lose me one pound, combine that with CF handlebars, CF seatpost, ultralight seats, and Campy Hyperion tubular wheels. The rest of the Superbe stuff is just as light as the highend modern components.

In my opinion the weight of frames have not changed that much since the early 80's, it's the carbon fiber stuff that's brought the total weight of the bike down..


----------



## mr meow meow (Jan 29, 2004)

*My Steel....*

DeBernardi Aelle.. lugged aelle steel with Profile carbon fork, Dura-ace/Ultegra 9 speed mix, OP/Ult wheels..........23.1 lbs.

In comparison...... the weight of the ring of beer fat around my belly?...10 lbs. A tour level climbing bike wouldn't help me as much as keeping the fridge closed.


----------



## andre71144 (Aug 25, 2003)

*weight*

My Specialized Allez 54cm tange tubing, aluminum fork, campy stratus(yes it's old '95) 24.75 lbs. great for going down long steep hills. not so great for going up.


----------



## Mike Prince (Jan 30, 2004)

*Steelman SR 853, full D/A*

60 cm c-c, weights just over 19 lbs.(I think). I could replace the steel fork and steel stem to save weight, but what's the point - if I obsessed over weight I'd not carry water when I ride . Also my wheels are relatively heavy  - OP's with nice fat 250g 25c tires. Wouldn't get rid of those for the world.

Best bike I've ever owned, can't imagine a better bike for me. If I wanted superlight I'd start with myself...


----------



## wooglin-at-home (Feb 7, 2004)

froze said:


> I ride a 84 Trek with Reynolds 531cs tubing and fork,


760? 770? Is it on vintage-trek.com?

I've got an 84 760, currently as a frame only. Frame weight (without fork) is 4lbs 4oz in a 58cm. I find frame weights much more useful than bike weights, but since that's the topic, my mutt-build Specialized Allez weighs somewhere around 23lbs without water. I don't remember what the frame weighs.


----------



## DMoore (Feb 4, 2004)

*Richard Sachs 60cm, 19 lbs 5 oz*



TREKY said:


> ...I'm curious to find out the weight of your steel bike.My 531 lugged is just below 22 pounds without seat pack.I'm not that much of a weight weenie or I probably would'nt ride steel.To me the ride is much more important than a few extra pounds.Please give a decription of your bike and overall weight.


That's with computer and water bottle cages in place, but no seat bag and no bottles. It's fully equipped with Record 10 components (Al crankset), ti Ibis stem, and heavy but comfy San Marco Regal (ti) saddle. I'll admit I'm cheating a bit with the wheels. It was weighed with a set of Zipp sewups with lightweight Dugast tubulars installed. It's right around 20 lbs with clincher Nucleons and Veloflex Pave tires installed.

Because Richard doesn't use tubing decals, I've no idea what brand of steel he used on this frame. He typically uses Reynolds and/or Dedacciai, but I don't know the specifics. But for a lugged steel frame, not tig-welded and not made from one of the new superlight steels like Foco or S3, it's pretty light. And rides great!


----------



## chbarr (Dec 30, 2002)

*Maillot Jaune---18 lbs*

Without saddle bag, pump, pedals, etc, my 2002 Lemond Maillot Jaune came in right at 18 lbs, per the store scale. I suspect that pedals didn't add a bunch.


----------



## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

> In comparison...... the weight of the ring of beer fat around my belly?...10 lbs. A tour level climbing bike wouldn't help me as much as keeping the fridge closed.


Amen brother!

Mike


----------



## TACSTS (Feb 4, 2004)

This is kinda lame b/c I've not actually got the bike built up yet, but anyhow...I bought a Specialized Allez Comp Cro-Mo on ebay, Columbus FOCO 61cm, the seller said frame/fork/headset/seatpost binder were all together right at 5lbs. 9oz. I weighed my parts that are going on it and the total bike weight *should* be near 17.87lbs. We'll see I suppose.  Also that is without pedals because I'm not sure of what pedals I'll be using.


----------



## Dave_Stohler (Jan 22, 2004)

My classic Trek 7**, 1978 frame, 531 throughout, 59.5cm, D/A friction shifters, Shimano freewheel (D/A body, 600 and other cogs, 6 total), 600 crankset (modern), Look pedals, Aluminum fork, Brooks Team Pro, Specialized hubs w/sun aero tubular rims, 14/15 db spokes (radial front, 3x rear), Tufo S33 tires, no bottle, cage, or bag, weighed in at *19 lbs* on the shipping platform scale at work. This scale had no decimals, so I assume it wasn't over 19.5 lbs (or, if it just drops the decimal, maybe 19.999 lbs?). Frame is pretty noodly.

Not bad for a 25 year-old frame and a bunch of used parts, huh? Whole bike cost me about $750.


----------



## CFBlue (Jun 28, 1999)

*Well....*

This is my True Temper lugged Trek frame, weighs in at about 3.6 lbs. for a 56 cm frame. It does have a few braze-ons removed, but that is negligible and my scale isn't accurate enough to catch the few grams. 

Its looking to be about a 15 lb. bike in its fixie stage  in the second pic it is weighing in at just under 12 for the bike minus chain, bb, crank, and pedals.

My other 531 lugged Trek bike is not set up with the lightest parts, more emphasis on durability/affordability. It is about 21.8 lbs. for a 56 cm frame also.

You definitely don't have to sacrifice the ride quality of steel in order to get a good lightweight ride. I have seen some Zona tubed bikes weighing in the low 18's which is good enough for anyone who isn't a pro-racer.

Of course, you could have a 42 lb. Schwinn Racer and not even think about weight


----------



## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

*A Tale Of Two Bikes*

Two steel bikes in the stable.
The oldest is made from Columbus TSX ultralight. It's a Bianchi racing department frame, and with race wheels, and a carbon fork, but with a steel stearer, weighs 21 pounds.
The newest is a Gunnar road model. I've never weighed it yet, but the frame weighs 3 1/2 pounds and the fork about 1 pound. With race wheels (Sew ups on GL330's), I would guess about 19 1/2 to 20 pounds.
As I always tell my friends........"IT'S THE LEGS BABY."


----------



## moschika (Feb 1, 2004)

*it's lighter then my mtb*

my mtb comes in around 20-21#s depending on how clean i keep it. it's also a ss and isn't weighed down with with all the gear stuff.

my road bike feels 'lighter'. it's made of the same tubing as my mtb. TT OX Platinum. it also has DA 9sp, OP, GP3000 wheels, if that helps. so i'ld guess somewhere around 18-19 #'s


----------



## RemingtonShowdown (Feb 4, 2004)

bah! I tip the scales at 145 and let me tell ya, the difference between my 22lb "tanker" and my 13lb ride are huge... I suppose for a rider who's got more muscle mass it's not a big deal, but let me tell ya I certainly feel it 80 miles into a ride...


----------



## Jed Peters (Feb 4, 2004)

IF Crown Jewel (custom), Ouzo Pro, Deda Newton Finishing kit, SLR XP, Deda Blackstick Mag Post, Neutrons, full Record: 18.8 w/ cuissi elite cages.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

wooglin-at-home said:


> 760? 770? Is it on vintage-trek.com?
> 
> I've got an 84 760, currently as a frame only. Frame weight (without fork) is 4lbs 4oz in a 58cm. I find frame weights much more useful than bike weights, but since that's the topic, my mutt-build Specialized Allez weighs somewhere around 23lbs without water. I don't remember what the frame weighs.


The bike is also a 84 but a 660 with Reynolds 531cs dbl butted and also a 58c size, and this model is listed in the vintage Trek site. It was weighed by a bike shop that one of those scales suspended from the ceiling with two hooks that cradled the top tube, no way of knowing how accurate the scales is but they claimed it was accurate.

Your 760 is similar to mine but with thinner tubes because of the 531p or sometimes labeled 531r, but had thinner tubes then my cs only resulted in a little less than a 1/4 pound difference between the cs and the p tubing. Now take your 4.4 pound frame add a 2 pounds steel fork and then add roughly 16 pounds of components including lightweight clincher wheels (which I'm being generous in the weight of the components) and your at 22.4 pounds. Todays components are down in the 14 pound range for Record or Dura Ace; and the Suntour Superbe components that I have were the lightest (as a whole group) components available during the time frame between 1978 to 1986 when Suntour went under. Now when I raced I used tubulars and lighter tires along with some other lighter components I listed in my first post the weight was lower. However today you can even go lighter with the use of Carbon Fiber parts and newer lighter wheels, thats where I came up with an estimated weight of around 18 pounds and maybe dip into the 17 range.

Colnago MXL with a mix of Record & Chorus and the heaviest fork they offer with Open Pro wheels comes in at 17.5-I've been checking to possibly buying one next summer. The components including wheels in this set up weigh 14 pounds. 

I hope that cleared up the confusion.


----------



## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

TREKY said:


> ...I'm curious to find out the weight of your steel bike.My 531 lugged is just below 22 pounds without seat pack.I'm not that much of a weight weenie or I probably would'nt ride steel.To me the ride is much more important than a few extra pounds.Please give a decription of your bike and overall weight.


I've got a couple 80s vintage lugged Columbus SL and Reynolds bikes with DA or Campy that weigh in at about 21 pounds with tubular wheels or 22-23 with clincher wheels. But you should compare frame weights, not bike weights. My 57 cm framesets (w/forks) are probably close to 7 pounds, over 5 pounds for the frames alone. Newer steel frames in this size tend to run 3.5 pounds, vs. maybe 3.3 pounds for ti and 2.5 - 3 pounds for AL or carbon. So even if you run a new steel frame with a steel fork you're probably only looking at about 1.5 pounds heavier than the one season weight weenie frame/fork.


----------



## rufus (Feb 3, 2004)

my old specialized sirrus probably comes in around 22-23 pounds. 

the mondonico i'm waiting on should weigh right about 20 pounds with chorus, and that's with an older ttt quill stem and handlebar, steel fork, selle italia turbo saddle, and older time equipe pedals. 

replacing all that stuff with a threadless carbon fiber fork, modern saddle, bars and stem, new impact pedals, and it would probably be in the area of 18 pounds. but the only change out of those i'd make is the newer pedals.


----------



## campyhag (Feb 4, 2004)

My Strong foco weighs 18.5 with heavy look pedals, axial carbons on open pros with revos, chorus 10, thomson post,aliante saddle,ouzo lite fork,ritchey new pro stem and wcs bars, no computer or cages. On my best days I can still beat my friend to the top of the switchback near my house on his lighter giant.


----------



## B2 (Mar 12, 2002)

I think I might have you all beat!

Kogswell lugged steel frame and fork 7.25lbs

Built up weight with mostly Ultegra components, fenders, pedals, cages, computer, etc. - 26.1 lbs


----------



## pseudocrow (Jan 22, 2004)

*Steel Weight*

Pinarello Opera, DA, Open Pro, ITM Stem, Deda Bars, Synchro TI post, San Marcos Era Saddle, 18.5 lbs with Speedplay pedals and Elite cages.


----------



## jrm (Dec 23, 2001)

*Umm*



TREKY said:


> ...I'm curious to find out the weight of your steel bike.My 531 lugged is just below 22 pounds without seat pack.I'm not that much of a weight weenie or I probably would'nt ride steel.To me the ride is much more important than a few extra pounds.Please give a decription of your bike and overall weight.


About 19 to 20lbs.


----------



## roadmeister (Apr 4, 2002)

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=38
1990 Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra with Columbus SLX tubing and original steel fork, Chorus 10, Mavic open Pro's......22.5 lbs. Not the lightest, but performance and ride quality are amazing.


----------



## AIE (Feb 2, 2004)

*I don't know how you guys do it.*

Serotta CSI, chorus 10spd, neutrons, campy profits, thomson post, itm stem, cinelli eubios bars, flite ti gel, stainless cages and a cordless computer w/batteries:
21.5 lbs. 59cm

What am I doing wrong? Do you remove the pedals, cages and chain before you weigh?

Tio


----------



## haiku d'etat (Apr 28, 2001)

*43 pounds like this*

and comfortable as hell


----------



## CFBlue (Jun 28, 1999)

*Pista*

My Bianchi Pista is 19.4 pounds, and that's with a steel frame and fork, heavy wheels, Look pedals, front brake, and heavy tires and innertubes, and I've added water bottle cages. 

I have a steel Alloro, too, with all 10 sp Record, but have not weighed it. I'll check it out.

My old 1980 steel Bianchi is under 20 pounds with tubular wheels/tires, but just over 20 with Open Pros and modern clinchers. Under 20 back then was considered very light.

Doug


----------



## Bocephus Jones (Feb 3, 2004)

Alex-in-Evanston said:


> Serotta CSI, chorus 10spd, neutrons, campy profits, thomson post, itm stem, cinelli eubios bars, flite ti gel, stainless cages and a cordless computer w/batteries:
> 21.5 lbs. 59cm
> 
> What am I doing wrong? Do you remove the pedals, cages and chain before you weigh?
> ...


I can get my 62cm MXL to about 19 with light wheels but usually 20 or 21lbs.


----------



## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

*My Rambouillet and my Somec*

According to my Berkley Fish Scale, my Rambouillet with Campy Veloce is 22 1/2 lbs. My 1980's Columbus SL tubed Italian Somec, with Campy Nuovo Record, tubulars and rubber pedals (which I'm going to put into the classifieds as soon as I get the guts) weighs in at an amazing 20.5.


----------



## dabearski (Feb 8, 2004)

*Mondonico*

My mondonico futura with daytona, open pros, steel forks is 21 lb's


----------



## scrublover (Oct 1, 2002)

five steel bikes. 

Curtlo custom mtn hardtail, 5" travel fork, disc brakes, SRAM/Raceface drivetrain with bashring setup, heavy ass fat tires, american classic disc wheels, ti stem/post/bar, Shimano M-545 pedals 27#. 29# if i throw downhill tires and tubes on her for certain days.

Ionic SS mtn full rigid-steel fork. disc brakes, american classic disc wheels, not quite as heavy ass fat tires, same ti stem/post/bar as the other mtb. 22#

Surly Crosscheck setup singlespeed fixed/free. surly/open pro wheels converted to QR. ti stem/post. paul canti brakes, dia-compe levers, stronglight cranks. 19#

Interloc steel roadie/carbon fork with steel steerer. Ultegra/Dura Ace mix, Hugi240/Open Pro wheels, carbon post, ti stem, Ritchey pedals, Stronglight cranks. 18#

Bianchi Eros converted to fixed gear. carbon fork. ti stem and post again. (seeing a theme?) mish mash of parts. 17#

steel doesn't mean it has to be light. and none of those frames are even the lightest of what's out there for steel! not even close! though i'm only 140# so i get away with ti bottom brackets in all of them, and lots of little ti and alu goodies here and there to save weight. good deal a few years back on a load of good stuff at veloswap!

my old alu roadie, with all carbon fork was 16.5#. i don't even notice the difference any more, and the steel rides soooooo much nicer!


----------



## Squishy (Dec 1, 2001)

*My Huffy weighs. . .*

My '88 Huffy Serotta, with steel fork, Record C group, Delta brakes, two bottle cages and X2 pedals weighs 20.5 lbs. I weigh 155. Rides like a dream.


----------



## B2 (Mar 12, 2002)

How do you like the Interloc Steel Roadie?


----------



## ukiahb (Jan 26, 2003)

Tommasini Sintesi, 61 cm, lugged Columbus Neuron, stock chrome steel fork, Chorus 10 sp, 21.5 lbs...kinda heavy, but since me and the bike together are over 200 lbs, the extra pound or two (on the bike) doesn't mean much...
Austro Damlier fixed gear, 63 cm, lugged 531 db, 22 lbs, but should drop a bit when I build a proper fixed rear wheel


----------



## T-Doc (Apr 4, 2002)

Dinosaur said:


> My Colnago Master X-Light weighs 19.74 pounds, sans the water bottle cages.
> 
> My Klein Quantum Race weigh somewhere in the 17 pound range.
> 
> ...



Hey Dino- my MXL is about the same. Many of the guys I ride with are amazed at how light it is for steel bike...I also ride in the 190-195lb range, and I think unless you are under 180 and doing climbing/competition, bike weight is probably not a big an issue.


----------



## doug in co (Feb 4, 2004)

*Paramount PDG 5, about 21lbs*

105 components, mavic 32spoke clincher rims, steel unicrown fork.


----------



## 3rensho (Aug 26, 2003)

*3Rensho Katana Pro*

Lugged steel frame of Ishiwata tubing (3Rensho lugs), Dura Ace 9sp group, Velomax Circuit Comp wheels, threaded Profile carbon fiber fork, Cinelli Mod. 65 bars & 1A stem, Suntour Superbe Pro headset, USE Alien carbon seatpost and SLR saddles, Look 396 pedals and (2) Elite stainless steel cages = 19.5 lbs. 

(on a scale at the excellent bike shop, Russell's Cycle World in Washington, Illinois.)


----------



## scrublover (Oct 1, 2002)

it's great! a 2002 year frame. i think the newer ones are reynolds 853, while mine is tange new prestige. i think that's just a nice name for a fairly decent butted 4130 tubeset; not sure though. about 3.5# frame weight, though in a small 51 size. i'm very happy with it; rides very nicely. built up very easily; no problems there. has a slight slope to the toptube, which i like the aesthetics of.


----------



## ferrantee (Nov 4, 2003)

*My Mercier weighes 19lb -- and that is with Ultegra*

I have a Mercier Serpens that is Reynolds 853 with Ultegra and Ritchey wheels and parts - it weighes 19 lbs
I have read posts on of other Serpens owners claiming 18.5lb - maybe that is in small sizes or without pedals.
Anyway, the ride of my bike beats any Aluminum bike I have been on and it is lighter than most Aluminum road bikes


----------



## tube_ee (Aug 25, 2003)

*Some questions for Anvil*



Anvil said:


> Using currently available tubesets and building techniques, the lightest steel bikes will weigh about 1/2 to 3/4's of a pound more than the lightest aluminum/ti/cf bike. No superlightweight frame, of any material, is a good idea for recreational riders.


I read some of your articles on farme construction, and while I think you missed a couple of real advantages of lugged construction, you present clear, informed, and compelling arguments about your craft. How would I go about getting permission to ditribute your article on frame materials and weight to my customers who have questions on this perrenial subject?

The two advantages I see for silver-brazed lugged construction are, 1) For repairs, the undamaged tube are not subjected to as much heat. The good tube has been melted once, it may not be as happy about it a second time, even if the tube is designed with welding in mind. 2) Properly designed lugs provide extra metal in a good place to have it. The slight weight penalty is paying it's way here, especially for the larger rider, or for heavily loaded bikes.

I don't think you mentioned it, but wouldn't a well-done and properly filed fillet brazed joint create the lowest possible stess concentration at the joint ends? I'm thinking here of fillet brazing of the quality of Steve Rex, John Slawta of LandShark, Glen Erickson, Dave Tesch (RIP) or Joe Starck's work for Bill Holland. I'm sure I've missed dozens, but these are the nicest I've seen. I've also heard that fillet brazing is the hardest technique to get right, is this true?

I agree that the building and design skills of the framebuilder are more important than the material they choose or the joining method used. Hell, consider the number of Vitus 979s, Alans, and Trek 1200 /1400s still on the road. Even glue can build a good bicycle.

Now, spending $4k on a production bike built by robots, when for that money I can get one (or two, even), of the finest bicycles in the world, from one of dozens of dedicated craftsmen here in the US, or France, or Japan, or the UK, or wherever, made-to-measure for me... that makes no freakin' sense.

--Shannon


----------



## tube_ee (Aug 25, 2003)

scrublover said:


> it's great! a 2002 year frame. i think the newer ones are reynolds 853, while mine is tange new prestige. i think that's just a nice name for a fairly decent butted 4130 tubeset; not sure though. about 3.5# frame weight, though in a small 51 size. i'm very happy with it; rides very nicely. built up very easily; no problems there. has a slight slope to the toptube, which i like the aesthetics of.


IIRC, Tange Prestige was a very strong and light Japanese tubeset. .8/.5/.8 double butted, I think. Anybody else got better info? I remeber this as one of the top tubesets of it's day, and I know that several builders are hoarding Prestige tubesets, and selling them at a premuim for building lightweight bikes for small riders. Tom Ritchey used Prestige steel, custom drawn, for his famous "Logic" tubeset, used in the Ritchey P-21 and Bridgestone MB-0. It's good stuff.


----------



## shokhead (Dec 17, 2002)

2003 Fuji Marseille-18.5 lbs.


----------



## JELLIOT (Aug 7, 2003)

*Not exactly sure*

I recently bought a KHS flite 800 steel 853 reynolds frame that was advertised as 3.25 lbs (frame only). I thought that was pretty good. I was upgrading from a specialized allez a1 aluminum with tiagra set up. I put on all new ultegra drive train bought open pro rims. The fram also came with a carbon fork. I kept most of the other stuff from my old bike. I do not have a scale but the new set up seems to be a little lighter than my old bike. If I were to guess I would say 20lbs, but the ride is superior. I read somewhere that reducing rotational mass is most important given that those are the parts your are trying to move faster. I am a steel believer and would not likely switch back to Aluminum for a weight savings alone.


----------



## 633 (Feb 10, 2004)

*Just curious*

I've never worried too much about exact weights, but now you guys have me curious. How are all of you measuring your bike weight? Does the shop do it for you, or are you trying to put it on a home scale, or what?


----------



## shokhead (Dec 17, 2002)

JELLIOT said:


> I recently bought a KHS flite 800 steel 853 reynolds frame that was advertised as 3.25 lbs (frame only). I thought that was pretty good. I was upgrading from a specialized allez a1 aluminum with tiagra set up. I put on all new ultegra drive train bought open pro rims. The fram also came with a carbon fork. I kept most of the other stuff from my old bike. I do not have a scale but the new set up seems to be a little lighter than my old bike. If I were to guess I would say 20lbs, but the ride is superior. I read somewhere that reducing rotational mass is most important given that those are the parts your are trying to move faster. I am a steel believer and would not likely switch back to Aluminum for a weight savings alone.


Thats a great bike,love them. Bet its closer to 19.


----------



## ferrantee (Nov 4, 2003)

*fishing scale*



633 said:


> I've never worried too much about exact weights, but now you guys have me curious. How are all of you measuring your bike weight? Does the shop do it for you, or are you trying to put it on a home scale, or what?


I weighed my Mercier on a fishing scale
and at 19lbs it seems light - but I am thinking I can lighten it a pound with new wheels
if I want to - might do it next season


----------



## Spoke Wrench (Aug 20, 2001)

*Thirty Eight Pounds:*



TREKY said:


> ...I'm curious to find out the weight of your steel bike.My 531 lugged is just below 22 pounds without seat pack.I'm not that much of a weight weenie or I probably would'nt ride steel.To me the ride is much more important than a few extra pounds.Please give a decription of your bike and overall weight.


Santana Noventa fillet brazed nivacrom frame, Ultegra equipped. Course it has two of most things and 40 spoke wheels. I guess that would be the equivlent of two 19 pound bikes.


----------



## bill (Feb 5, 2004)

Pegoretti Marcelo, 16.5 EOM, built up with Record, Nucleon wheels, with pedals, bottle cages, under 19 lbs, anyway. I don't have a very accurate scale.


----------



## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*Big riders need strong bikes.*



T-Doc said:


> I think unless you are under 180 and doing climbing/competition, bike weight is probably not a big an issue.


There is an old wisdom one occassionally hears over the walla of weight weenies, that goes something like, if you're a heavy rider, a heavier bike will be stiffer, stronger, will last longer, and give a much more responsive ride.

Of course, when a shop is selling a bike to a 220 pound guy, they don't want to draw attention to the guy's weight. But when he goes out on his trick 16 pound wonder, the first thing to go are those 12 spoked wheels with 23C tires. If the guy's smart and the shop has the bravery to suggest it, he'll go to 32 or better yet, 36 spoked box section "touring" wheels and put 28C tires on them. The next will be a wider saddle, eventually a heavier frame, one that would be too stiff for a light rider, but feels just right for the heavy guy. Modern superlight frames are probably designed to hold the weight and power of a big rider, but a heavier, slightly stiffer frame will definitely get him up a hill faster than a noodly light one.

Also, a fit big guy on a stiff 22 pound bike probably has the same strength to weight ratio as a lighter guy on a light bike. While this might be a handicap overcoming gravity on a climb, heavy guys can descend like rockets and barrel along the flats pretty well.


----------



## Light Pink (Aug 2, 2002)

My old school (1995) 753 tubed/luged Waterford with an ouza pro Ti stem, post, Dura ace, and King wheels is 19 lbs even (3.75 lb. Frame) and rides smooth as silk. I am a 185lbs and don’t see a need for anything lighter.


----------



## Bacco (Feb 19, 2002)

*Lemond Zurich 59 cm*

With Speedplay Zeros, Michelin Carbons, and Flightdeck computer weighs 20.6 lbs plus or minus 0.2 lbs.


----------



## tmotz (May 16, 2002)

*Never to heavy*

My Fuji clicks in at 30 pounds.The weight is meaningless since I'm a fat a$$.


----------



## tjbm (Feb 18, 2004)

My Moser TK1(57) full campy record, 20 even


----------



## ET_SoCal (Jul 1, 2003)

*My Road Ride*

'03 Gunnar Roadie;
All 105 components (Triple), pedals, seat bag w/ tube, tools, Etc...

21.5 lbs.


----------



## goloso (Feb 4, 2004)

*Coppi Foco*

19lbs with pedals and bottle cages.

It is built with a Chorus triple and OPs. The only stupid light part is the USE carbon seatpost. With a lighter fork, seat, pedals and bars/stem I could get it down to 18 but why bother?

I'm suprised I dont see more of these frames around. It is a well made 3lb all steel frame that rides and handles extremely well. I get more compliments on this frame than I ever did on my MasterLight.


----------



## rfrancisco (Feb 2, 2004)

*1993 Colnago C93*

19.9 lbs with pedals and bottle cages, 51 cm c-c, Campy 9spd Centaur w/racing -triple, Proton w/s. I'm at 165 lbs.


----------



## dharleyd (Feb 28, 2004)

i ride colnago ovalmaster ti frame size 59, mavic k's, campy chorus, and look cx-7 pedals. bike weights in at 19.6#. the k's are 3 years old new sl's are much lighter.


----------



## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

Stood on body weight scale without bike, then with bike, and noted difference.

1984 DeRosa, Columbus SL with SLX seat tube, short-point investment cast lugs, chromed chainstay on drive side, flat fork crown, 36 spoke clincher wheels, Selle Italia Turbo saddle, Campy Super Record components--weighs just under 22 pounds.

1985 Alpine, Columbus SLX tubing, long-point investment cast lugs, Semi-sloping fork crown, 36 spoke clincher wheels, Esge fenders, Selle Royal Regal saddle, Campy Nuovo/Super Record components, mid-90s Chorus rear derailleur, weighs just inside 23 pounds.

They've proven to be ultimate sustainable energy production machines, masterpieces of the mechanical age.


----------



## canuckguy (Jan 22, 2004)

*Getting lighter*

For the past 20 years I've been riding a bike shop private label bike. Cro-mo main triangle, unknown forks and stays. Long wheelbase tourer. It's 29.5 lbs including Blackburn rear rack, 2 cages, seat bag & computer.

My LBS is currently assembling a Marinoni Ciclo with full 105 for me. Frame & fork are about 5 lbs 4 oz. Columbus Zona with EVO carbon fork. Final weight TBD, but I'm guessing around 22 -24 lbs.

http://marinoni.qc.ca/html/2004/eng_ciclo.asp

But the best thing of all is that I'm almost 40 lbs lighter  than I was last summer, (the new bike was my reward to myself) so I figure that I'll be flying up the hills this year, no matter what my bike weighs.


----------



## merckxman (Jan 23, 2002)

*My 32 year old Cinelli: 18.5 lbs*

...... with period lightweight parts. BTW, steel lightweights have been around for a long time, for example: "Buckley Brothers prolific South London frame builder had two shops Beresford Street, Camberwell Gate, S.E.5 and Wells Road, Sydenham, S.E.26. They 
started in 1919 and survived into the 1950's. Their first lightweight racer 
weighed 17.5 lbs. They built a special for a lightweight show which weighed 
in at only 13lbs. in the days of steel components. This model went into 
production as their famous "Model C" Path Racer."


----------



## Stinky Hippie (Jul 19, 2002)

*16.8 lbs*

Frame is tubed in OX platinum using both lugs and fillet brazing. Look HSC 2 straight fork, USE post, ALiante carbon, speedplay steel, Record, Rolf Prima Elans ,GP3000s and stupid light tubes.

If I got rid of a my heavy Conago stem, went back to my SLR saddle and bought some stupid light carbon cages, we'd be talking close to 16 even.

Steel rides beautifully and with a little creativity, can be built up to be very light.


----------

