# Opinions: Le Champ Ti Fire (SRAM Force) or Heat (SRAM Rival) w/ wheelset upgrade?



## jmoy76 (Nov 22, 2011)

Hi all, I've been doing a lot of research among these forums and am pretty much sold on getting a Le Champ Ti bike, but am still torn on which model to pick. I've narrowed down to 2 options:

- Fire (SRAM Force), or
- Heat (SRAM Rival) w/ wheelset upgrade - I figure I can sell the unridden Aksiums on eBay, and spend ~$500 to get a <1500g offbrand wheelset i.e. BWW Blackset Race, Soul 2.0, Williams system 19's.

Which would you choose and why?


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## jazzbolicious (Oct 12, 2011)

Get the Fire (Force), and enjoy it as is. You're going to get pennies on the dollar for the Aksiums if you ebay them anyway. You can always upgrade your wheels later on down the road when you can afford it.

It's a lot more elbow grease (and $$) to change out a groupset down the road if you get upgrade fever.


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## vautrain (Mar 1, 2012)

Do you weigh less than 150 lbs? Unless you do, I would not recommend buying your everyday wheelset with weight as the primary consideration.


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## X-Nemesis (Aug 5, 2012)

I'm thinking of the TI Fire myself...


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## equinoxx (May 23, 2010)

I chose the Heat and sold off the wheels first thing. On a good day, you'll get $160 for the Aksiums and maybe $60 for the tires (assuming you do not re-use the tires). The Aksiums can be hard to sell though, just not that desirable. Took almost a month for me to sell mine on craigslist...something to keep in mind.

FWIW, I replaced my Aksiums with a set of BWWs. I think you will be happy with either spec'd model.


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## paulfeng (Jun 10, 2011)

I don't know how well you know your fit, but one detail to note is that the Fire comes with a -17* stem, and the Heat a -6* stem. Also, the WCS parts are a little lighter than the Pro stuff, but I don't know that there's any difference other than weight. Speaking of weight, how much lighter is Force than Rival... 1/2 lb?

Let me join those saying not to concern yourself too much about wheel weight; it just doesn't make that much difference. Now, you might have other legitimate reasons to pick one of those other wheelsets over Mavic, such as repairability, but don't fixate on wheel weight.


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## X-Nemesis (Aug 5, 2012)

Hey, will my measurements work well with a 53.5cm Ti Fire?

GenderMInseam33 
inTrunk26 
inForearm13.5 
inArm26 
inThigh24.5 
inLower Leg22.5 
inSternal Notch58 
inTotal Body Height71 in

Chris from BD said that they would recommend this size for my measurements. I'm just lost as to why a 53.5 with the Ti when I seem to get a sizing of 56 from online measurement calculators when I input my numbers?


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## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

jazzbolicious said:


> Get the Fire (Force), and enjoy it as is. You're going to get pennies on the dollar for the Aksiums if you ebay them anyway. You can always upgrade your wheels later on down the road when you can afford it.
> 
> It's a lot more elbow grease (and $$) to change out a groupset down the road if you get upgrade fever.


I had pretty much this process going in. It's just a hassle to sell crap on ebay anyways. You have to box it up and ship it and list it and all that crap, and at the end of the day, you'll save very little doing it.

I ended up going with the Fire and have no regrets.


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## Refujiado (Jul 21, 2012)

Lol im on the exact same dilemma, picking between these 2 models. First road bike ever and well not sure which to pick.


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## jmoy76 (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks for all the replies...

@jazzbo: Having the Force groupset would be nice, but many of the reviews I've seen say that performance of Rival is just as good, w/ just a small weight penalty. If I've done the math right, even if I only net $100 for selling the Aksiums (they're generally selling for $150-200 on eBay) and spend $500 on new wheels, I can get a lighter bike w/ Rival for the same $2100. Force just looks cooler, though.. Just on pure looks alone, I'd probably consider Red if BD sold one w/ compact cranks and the bottom bracket maintence wasn't such a hassle.

@vautrain: yes, I do weigh less than 150lbs

@paulfeng: yeah, that 17* stem looks a bit steep. And flipped over, would be way too upright. But changing stem is not a big deal.
I think Force is about 1/3lb lighter than Rival, whereas the wheels I'm looking at are 1/2-2/3rds lb lighter than the Aksiums and Krysium Equipes. I'm in the Seattle area, and it's pretty hilly around here, so I think the lighter wheels may actually be useful.
Can you elaborate on your repairability comment? Is there something about Mavic wheels that makes this more difficult?


Hmmm... I think I'm still torn. But, currently leaning toward the Fire. As jazzbo mentioned, I can ride the Equipes till they bust and always do a wheel upgrade later.


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## paulfeng (Jun 10, 2011)

jmoy76 said:


> Thanks for all the replies...
> 
> @paulfeng: yeah, that 17* stem looks a bit steep. And flipped over, would be way too upright. But changing stem is not a big deal.
> I think Force is about 1/3lb lighter than Rival, whereas the wheels I'm looking at are 1/2-2/3rds lb lighter than the Aksiums and Krysium Equipes. I'm in the Seattle area, and it's pretty hilly around here, so I think the lighter wheels may actually be useful.
> Can you elaborate on your repairability comment? Is there something about Mavic wheels that makes this more difficult?


Just that many Mavic wheels use non-generic spokes (you need to get the Mavic spokes, which your local bike store may or may not need to special order). FWIW, I have the Equipes that came with my SL as a spare wheelset, and ride my K-Elities that I got a good deal on. So I'm not anti-Mavic in general, but there are probably better choices at full price.

I'm from Seattle (now live in relatively-flat Minnesota) and envy you for the hills available. A few weeks ago I rode up Erie Mountain on Fidalgo Island a couple times... that was fun:
Strava Segment | Mt. Erie


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## jmoy76 (Nov 22, 2011)

*Now leaning toward the Heat (Rival)*

Call me a flip-flopper, but now I'm leaning toward the Heat w/ Rival and would say I'm about 90% sure about it.

I test rode a few bikes at my LBS the other day, with the primary objective of getting a feel for each group set that I was considering. I tested 3 different Specialized Roubaix's as follows:

- Roubaix Pro SL3 w/ Red levers, FD, and RD, and Force brakes (closest thing they had to a Force setup), weight 16.5lbs. Selling for $3600

- Roubaix Elite w/ Rival levers, FD, and RD, and Apex brakes. Had 11-32 cassette. weight 19.5 lbs. Selling for $1900.

- Roubaix w/ Ultegra

First tested the Red/Force bike. The levers felt great in my hands, and the speed, ease (short lever throw) and accuracy of the shifting, both front and rear, blew me away. (Note: I'm coming from a low end 25lb road bike w/ 105/Tiagra mix, so might not take much for me to be impressed). Particularly on the rear shifting, I barely had to move the lever and it shifted. Almost like pressing a button. One other thing of note: I rode this bike up a pretty steep hill (10-15% grade) in the lowest gear, and it honestly didn't feel that much easier than my current bike, despite being 8+lbs lighter. It was a good hill, and got me a bit winded. The low gear combo on both bikes has the same gear ratio (Roubaix 34/28, current bike 30/25).

Next up, the Ultegra. I know much of this is personal preference, but I HATED it! I don't know if perhaps the bike wasn't adjusted properly, but the shifting, esp. on the front, and the feel of the levers just felt sloppy compared to SRAM, and didn't feel as good in my hands ergonomically. Also, after first riding the SRAM bike for 20 min, it became apparent how easy to use and intuitive DoubleTap shifting was. I caught myself twice trying to do a DoubleTap shift on the Ultegra... and again, I've been riding a bike w/ Shimano brifters for the last ~2yrs, so it's not like I don't know how it works.

Last up, the Rival/Apex. Here's where things got interesting for me. The feel of the levers in my hands felt identical to the Red levers. More importantly, the feel and quickness of the shifting was nearly just as good as Red. Maybe a little more slop in rear shifting, but not much (definitely not enough to justify paying significantly more $). Most importantly, I rode up that same 10-15% grade hill on this bike, and it was an absolute breeze in the 34/32 gear, despite being 3lbs heavier than the SL3 w/ Red/Force! Mind blown again!!

This is where I had my epiphany, and realized that the bike weight isn’t that big of a deal, but I must have the 11-32 WiFli gearing! So, I’m pretty sure I’m gonna go w/ the Le Champ Heat, cross my fingers that I’ll get one w/ the 11-32 cassette, and if not, buy one + mid cage RD and sell the old stuff on eBay. If I do happen to get obsessed w/ bike weight again later, I can still do the wheel upgrade, and for roughly the same out of pocket cost, will have one that’s lighter than the Le Champ Fire.
I
f you’re a recreational rider that does a lot of hills, I think you’ve gotta try a 32T cog. The difference was night and day!


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