# pain in lower quadriceps



## FieldSandwhich (Jun 28, 2004)

After riding a heavy ride, particularly when I climb, my legs are tired, but the very lowest part of my quads--from the top of my kneecap up about 4 inches or so--is the most painful. Anybody else experienced this or have an idea on what to do about it? It's not horrible, but it's not fun...


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Cadence?*



FieldSandwhich said:


> After riding a heavy ride, particularly when I climb, my legs are tired, but the very lowest part of my quads--from the top of my kneecap up about 4 inches or so--is the most painful. Anybody else experienced this or have an idea on what to do about it? It's not horrible, but it's not fun...


You don't say what your cadence is or how long you've had this problem, but the first thing to try is going with a lower gear/higher cadence. It sounds like you're straining the muscle.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Your saddle may also be adjusted too low and or forward. 

You also may be pushing too hard for your basic fitness level. 

Are you pulling back and up through each pedal stroke? Are you using your ankles, calves, hams, glutes and hip flexors? You need to pay attention to your pedaling stroke as you may be "pedaling squares".


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## FieldSandwhich (Jun 28, 2004)

*more info*

I've been working to push my cadence up in general; along the flats I try to maintain 100-110. Up hills it drops a bit, but not below 65 unless I don't have a smaller gear (riding a double).

I've had this ever since I've been riding (2 years and 8 months)--it's gotten less frequent (I can push harder without getting this effect).

it doesn't hurt so much as I feel I'm situated incorrectly--i'm worrying that it might be stressing the muscle unnecessarily, or holding my workouts back.

Maybe this info helps out a bit--

Rocco--I'm working on making sure that I get a good pull all through the stroke. do you have any suggestions on how to think about it so that it becomes more natural?

I'll look into my saddle position--perhaps this has something to do with it too. How do you position your saddle? As far as height goes, I raise it until my heel touches the pedal when my leg is not quite fully extended. For fore/aft, I adjust it so that when I'm riding in the hoods, the front hub is obscured by my handlebars. I'd love any advice on this.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

FieldSandwhich said:


> I've been working to push my cadence up in general; along the flats I try to maintain 100-110. Up hills it drops a bit, but not below 65 unless I don't have a smaller gear (riding a double).
> 
> I've had this ever since I've been riding (2 years and 8 months)--it's gotten less frequent (I can push harder without getting this effect).
> 
> ...


What you've said has revealed some important issues here.

1. A cadence of 65 is way too low. 75 should be your minimun. 85 is better. 95 would be fantastic. Riding at a cadence of 65 will fry your quads and knees not to mention that it's just not efficient.

2. Think about scraping the gum off your soles and then pull your knees up to your bars. Do a lot of Climbing using a grade and a gear that will allow you to keep your cadence up. Climbing forces you to learn how to use all of the required muscle groups in legs trough the entire pedal stroke. 

3. Put you cycling shorts on. Get a thick book and press it against your crotch while keeping it level with the ground. Do this barefoot and get someone to help you. Measure from the top or spine of the book to the floor. Do this at least three times and figure out the average. Multiply that number by .883 as a starting point. We're not all the same so you may need to tweek things from there. I ride a tad higher than that. When you feel your effort evenly through your legs and the saddle is about as high as you can set it without your butt rocking on the saddle when you peddle then you'll know pretty much right on. If you find that you need to raise your saddle only do it in 2mm increments at a time. Move it up and adapt for a couple of weeks then move it up again another 2mm. Repeat as needed. While your adapting make sure your stretching your back, hams and calves before and after every ride. Get those legs long.

3. Fore/aft adjustment of saddle is not the way to get enough room in the cockpit. Choosing a frame with the correct top tube length and stem length is the way to do that.
The obscured front hub techinque is not necessarily the answer. Try to get stretched out over your bike. You want to be able to ride with upper body relaxed. You don't want tension in your shoulders and neck.

4. Fore/aft adjustment of saddle is for positoning your legs in the correct relationship with you cranks. Finding this ideal position will require an assistant, a plumb bob/weight on a 22" long string and preferably a trainer to mount you bike on. Set your bike on the trainer so that you're sure that it is level with the ground. Get on your bike with your shorts and position you legs/feet in the pedals so that the crank arms are at 3 and 9 on the clock. Drop your plumb line off from the front of your knee-cap and let it dangle down to at least where the axle on you pedal is. When the saddle is neutral the bob will line up with the center of you pedal axle. I generally believe in setting up the saddle so the bob comes about 1cm behind the axle. Being setup behind the axle will take some load of you quads and shift it more to your slow twitch glutes which are more suited to long hours in the saddle. Keep in mind that there is a relationship between the fore/aft adjustment and the height adjustment. When you move the saddle back you are also increasing the effective saddle height a small amount. When you raise your saddle you're also increasing how far aft the saddle is.

Good luck. Don't forget to buy my book when it comes out.


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## pwagle (Jul 4, 2005)

Wow...great advice Rocco. Couldn't agree more. 

I had this exact issue when first starting out. I'm the stubborn DIY fella, so I bypassed a proper fitting session and choose what I thought was best. Well after a while I could not believe upper legs were suffering to the degree they were. I could do 75mph on snow planks for 2min during collegiate downhill/super G races, but not climb in comfort while in the saddle? Didnt add up.

What it came down to was an improper fit, which was not off by much. Two key changes: Moved into largest frame possible in my preferred ride (I'm 6'4/35" inseam so 62cm C-C was necessary instead of 61cm C-T) and moved the saddle back so I was "behind" the crank. I can now maintain a proper cadence on climbs or mash like Ullrich the beast without killing the quads. All the work is done by the hams/glutes...which I have plenty of from my days of collegiate rowing and Super G/Downhill(skiing). I know alot of folks dont agree with Ullrichs mash climbing style, but watch how far back he is on his ride...very stretched out and behind the crank. He has some of the most shredded hamstrings I've ever seen...almost superhuman.


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