# Any real difference between Ultegra and TIagra?



## jaybee64

Does it make sense to upgrade a component from a Shimano TIagra to Ultegra? I'm wondering if the primary difference is in materials/weight, as opposed to design or performance? Would this be money well spent, or wasted?


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## Mr. Versatile

Ultegra is a fine group. It's light, dependable, rugged, and shifts like a dream. With Ultegra you'll pick up an extra gear, so you'll have a 10 spd cassette instead of the 9 you now have. 

OTOH, the Tiagara group is pretty nice, too. If there's something wrong with the Tiagara I'd want to upgrade to 105 or Ultegra. I have 105 on a bike & Dura Ace on another. They're both excellent. If the Tiagara was working well I'd probably keep it, unless I was going to race..


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## Ventruck

Which particular component?

Group wise, you also get one more gear in the rear. Same can be done with 105, which is considerably comparable to Ultegra.


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## Eschelon

I've never used Tiagra. But I have used Shimano 105's and Ultegra. Big difference. Quality and longevity are obvious. Shifting is noticeable in execution. Braking is on another level. Going from Tiagra to Ultegra will be most noticeable when you go racing at a crit or road race because it's then you really put stress and demands on your equipment. Non-competitive use may not demonstrate any clear and obvious differences.


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## My Own Private Idaho

No upgrade there. I prefer 9-speed. It has a stronger chain, and I don't notice the extra gear with 10-speed.


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## frpax

Shifting performance is much superior w/ Ultegra. 105 shifts better than Tiagra.

In my opinion, Ultegra is the best value in the line up, with 105 a close 2nd.


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## TomH

well setup sora shifters with good cables, a reasonable quality chain and cassette, will shift extremely comparable to ultegra. 

It might "feel" sharper, but its indexed shifting. You push it over once, and it shifts once. The throw ratio is also the same on all the shimano line, so its the same movement for a shift as well. Does tiagra have trim on the left shifter? Thats kind of nice, but really not that necessary or a deal breaker.

I think shifting performance in general is blown beyond out of proportion, as they're all indexed. Its just a different, maybe more positive feel, but even low line sora will shift perfectly accurate and quickly. 

all shimano pads that arent dura-ace suck pretty bad, but DA pads are about 8 bucks a set, and work well on any caliper they fit on.

Bar end shifters are something else.. integrated shifters dont begin to even touch bar ends in terms of performance


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## tihsepa

what? do you all just ride around shifting all the time? i dont understand. they all shift pretty good when set up right. the key is for how long. as far as brakes, you reach a point where it just comes down to the pads and cables not the calipers. 

like said before, if its set up well, its not much difference. this coming from a buy that more often then not will grab a single speed.


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## My Own Private Idaho

TomH said:


> all shimano pads suck pretty bad, but DA pads are about 8 bucks a set, and work well on any caliper they fit on.


Fixed if for you. Coolstop Salmon pads are where its at. Much better than any Shimano brake bad. I buy Shimano brakes and throw away brand-new pads in favor of a $6.00 upgrade to Coolstops.


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## vladvm

I never owned a Tiagra, but I have three bikes with shimano groups. all are tuned and set-up properly.

steel bianchi with 105 - commuter
aluminum specialized with Ultegra - for group/training rides
custom carbon with Dura-Ace - for pleasure rides

Besides the design and weight difference, there is significant performance in shifting and braking difference between all 3. My favourite is Dura-ace of course.

In terms of components durability, I find that 105 cassettes, crankrings, chains wears more quickly than Ultegra, and Ultegra cassettes, rings, chain wears more quickly than Dura-Ace. 


So Tiagra to Ultegra, you will definitely feel the difference. 

However, if you are pleased with Tiagra, I suggest you upgrade the wheelset and tires first (more bang for buck).

If you really want to upgrade the components, just go Dura-Ace.


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## jaybee64

Thanks for the information everyone, much appreciated.


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## PJ352

vladvm said:


> I never owned a Tiagra, but I have three bikes with shimano groups. all are tuned and set-up properly.
> 
> steel bianchi with 105 - commuter
> aluminum specialized with Ultegra - for group/training rides
> custom carbon with Dura-Ace - for pleasure rides
> 
> Besides the design and weight difference, there is significant performance in shifting and braking difference between all 3. My favourite is Dura-ace of course.
> 
> *In terms of components durability, I find that *105 cassettes, crankrings, chains wears more quickly than Ultegra, and *Ultegra cassettes*, rings, chain *wears more quickly than Dura-Ace. *
> 
> So Tiagra to Ultegra, you will definitely feel the difference.
> 
> However, if you are pleased with Tiagra, I suggest you upgrade the wheelset and tires first (more bang for buck).
> 
> If you really want to upgrade the components, just go Dura-Ace.


Really? To my knowledge you're the first member to offer that opinion. I would think that the 4 largest sprockets being titanium would mean _faster_ wear. :yesnod:


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## Salsa_Lover

^^^^

mind, I suspect most of those guys posting about Dura Ace wearing faster than Ultegra, haven't in fact rode a Dura Ace cassette enough to wear it out.


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## vladvm

PJ352 said:


> Really? To my knowledge you're the first member to offer that opinion. I would think that the 4 largest sprockets being titanium would mean _faster_ wear. :yesnod:


oh yeah for sure, my dura-ace cassettes wear so much better (lasts longer) than ultegra and 105. all based on my personal experience, not others. Others will have different experience.


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## m_s

Mr. Versatile said:


> Ultegra is a fine group. It's light, dependable, rugged, and shifts like a dream. With Ultegra you'll pick up an extra gear, so you'll have a 10 spd cassette instead of the 9 you now have.
> 
> OTOH, the Tiagra group is pretty nice, too. If there's something wrong with the Tiagara I'd want to upgrade to 105 or Ultegra. I have 105 on a bike & Dura Ace on another. They're both excellent. If the Tiagara was working well I'd probably keep it, *unless I was going to race..*


I hear this a lot and find it puzzling. What magically changes requiring higher end drivetrain components as soon as someone lines up for a race?

I have never raced road, only cross and XC. My geared cross bike has Tiagra and it has been shifting reliably for over three years, except when the rear derailleur was bent in a crash. Which would have happened to any derailleur.


vladvm said:


> steel bianchi with 105 - commuter
> aluminum specialized with Ultegra - for group/training rides
> custom carbon with Dura-Ace - for pleasure rides
> 
> Besides the design and weight difference, there is significant performance in shifting and braking difference between all 3. My favourite is Dura-ace of course.
> 
> In terms of components durability, I find that 105 cassettes, crankrings, chains wears more quickly than Ultegra, and Ultegra cassettes, rings, chain wears more quickly than Dura-Ace.


All three of these bikes likely see different levels of stress on the drivetrain, 

I would guess that your commuter, assuming you ever ride in less than ideal conditions, would see the most drivetrain wear by far. The Ultegra bike might see slightly more wear based on more shifts under power since you use it for group rides and training rides (hard efforts). It's a reasonable guess that your bike with DA, which you use for 'pleasure rides' has the least strain put on the drivetrain components.


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## My Own Private Idaho

My kids ride Sora, and one of them is a cyclocross bike. The shifters, RD, and FD are all original. The BB and hubs wore out though (cheap, non-Shimano), and I've replaced 5-6 chains in the 10,000 miles that my three kids rode this particular bike. The shifters still work perfectly after all of the crashes and abuse. The feel of the shifters isn't as nice as the Dura-Ace shifters I use, but the _function_ is just as good.


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## QuattroCreep

My thought is there is no need to upgrade unless there is something wrong/worn out with your current setup or you have some extra cash right now and would like to treat yourself to some thing nice.

Even if you were getting into road racing I would recommend you stick with what you have for your first season. Bikes are not the limiting factor in cat5.


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## Goodbarsix

TomH said:


> well setup sora shifters with good cables, a reasonable quality chain and cassette, will shift extremely comparable to ultegra.
> 
> It might "feel" sharper, but its indexed shifting. You push it over once, and it shifts once. The throw ratio is also the same on all the shimano line, so its the same movement for a shift as well. Does tiagra have trim on the left shifter? Thats kind of nice, but really not that necessary or a deal breaker.


I have Sora on my bike with Dura-Ace cables/housings (all my LBS had on hand in a "kit" form), and this setup _shifts_ like butter! 

The one thing I _do not_ like about my Sora shifters, is the location of the thumb trigger. Can be kindof annoying sometimes.

That being said, I still want a higher end group just because it will add that new fun factor to an old bike .


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## seeborough

jaybee64 said:


> Thanks for the information everyone, much appreciated.


jayybee, you are not going to be happy until you buy yourself a new set of shifters. I suggest you go ahead and get your stuff. 

It will bring you at least temporary peace.


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## frdfandc

Since working on bikes equipped with the entire Shimano lineup, I really can't tell a difference between Tiagra, 105 and Ultegra when they are all set up properly.

Tiagra is equal to 105, minus one gear. The only performance upgrade of Ultegra over 105/Tiagra is the new 6700 crank. With the outer ring being forged, front shifting is more precise. Rear shifting is very, very similar. 

Now going to Dura-Ace from any of these other group sets, there is a gigantic leap in performance. Shifting is absolutely awesome.


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## Alaska Mike

I can tell a difference, and definitely prefer Ultegra. If Shimano upgrades Tiagra soon like they did 105, the difference might not be so noticeable. The new 105 is pretty nice.

For what a new 105 or Ultegra bike would cost from some suppliers, I don't think upgrading a groupset makes sense. Upgrading a bike to Ultegra does not automatically make it an "Ultegra-Level" bike. Tiagra-level bikes are often spec'd with cheaper components (stems/wheelsets/seatposts, bars...). Bumping up a Tiagra-level bike to an Ultegra-level bike can nickle and dime you to death.

Tiagra is a solid, if uninspiring groupset, and as long as the components are in good shape and properly maintained it isn't a limiting factor. It's a workhorse groupset. While the more expensive groupsets are flashier and lighter and provide more gears on the rear cog, they won't make you faster- at least not enough to justify the expense of swapping over.

If it breaks, consider an upgrade. Until that, run what you brung.


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## pdh777

Agree with Alaska M - use it until it goes.

I have Tiagra on my commuter - It is not the greatest groupset (uninspiring is an apprpriate adjective), does not shift as precisely as my Force or even my Centaur. But it gets the job done - the feel is sloppy (looser) compared to the other two sets - but it serves it's purpose. 

Also as noted by posters above, I would be upgrading the components on a frame that is still at the lower level of modern bikes (4130 steel). If and when the Tiagra goes, I will consider upgrading to Rival or upgrading to an entirely new commuter bike - have a Gunnar Sport on the wish list.

Theres plenty of ways to spend your money in this sport - groupset is probably not the first priority - wheels would get my vote as an upgrade + you can more easily teke them with you when you upgrade to your next bike.

Good Luck


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## johnlh

I'll upgrade my tiagra shifters and derailleurs when they wear out. 

I get a kick out of people who say that Tiagra is a 3000 mile groupset. 22,000+ miles, and they are still crisp as ever. All I've replaced are cables and housing.


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## Goodbarsix

pdh777 said:


> ...
> Theres plenty of ways to spend your money in this sport - groupset is probably not the first priority - wheels would get my vote as an upgrade + you can more easily teke them with you when you upgrade to your next bike.
> 
> Good Luck


I agree...sortof. There are three touch points on your bike...pedals, saddle, and cockpit...I said cock...GIGGLES.


Seriously thought, some folks do prefer the feel of certain groups to others. The current Tiagra and Ultegra have differently shaped hoods (where I am sure most of us spend 70% of our time on the bars). The new 105 has the same shape as Ultegra....the current Tiagra is more like the old generation of upper end Shimano.

Go to an LBS and ask to ride different group shifters...you may be surprised what feels nice to you.


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## My Own Private Idaho

johnlh said:


> I'll upgrade my tiagra shifters and derailleurs when they wear out.
> 
> I get a kick out of people who say that Tiagra is a 3000 mile groupset. 22,000+ miles, and they are still crisp as ever. All I've replaced are cables and housing.



I don't know where anyone gets that. Even the cheap stuff lasts for a long time. Honestly, my Dura Ace shifters do have a nicer feel to them than my 105, but the function is no better. They just click in a more satisfying manner.

I think most of the people who knock Tiagra and Sora for that matter are either trying to justify their upgrade-itis, or have never ridden/worked on those groups.


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## cyclust

frpax said:


> Shifting performance is much superior w/ Ultegra. 105 shifts better than Tiagra.
> 
> In my opinion, Ultegra is the best value in the line up, with 105 a close 2nd.


A few months ago, I bought a well used road bike to use as a winter/beater bike. It had Ultegra 9 speed components, but the shifters needed replaced, so I picked up a set of lightly used Tiagras, becuase they were 9 speed, but had the newer, more comfortable shape that the current Shimano 10 speed shifters have. I didn't expect anything great, I just wanted something that worked OK. Much to my suprise, those shifters are smoother than any I've ever used. They shift perfectly, work great, and I actualy love the little gear indicators built into the tops of the shifters. I've owned numerous Dura Ace sets, and these seem better! They may not last quite as long, but who knows, they just might!


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## kreyszig666

My Own Private Idaho said:


> I think most of the people who knock Tiagra and Sora for that matter are either trying to justify their upgrade-itis, or have never ridden/worked on those groups.


i'll bite.. I had sora on my commute for about a year, and thought they were ok as I'd not used anything else before. 
My next bike had ultegra shifters, and I couldn't believe the difference in shifting. The sora shifters had a good cm of play in them, which I thought was normal. As for the rest of the drivetrain, I'm not sure there is such a noticeable difference. But I put ultegra shifters on that commute as soon as I could (along with moving up to 10speed), and the bike feels much better.
Perhaps I had set up badly the sora badly (it was a triple to start off with which complicates things a little), but as far as I'm concerned the difference has been well worth it.
Haven't used tiagra so can't comment. But man those sora shifters sucked.

EDIT: I just checked the shifters I took off and they were 2200, which is worse than sora. So take the above with that in mind...


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## johnlh

I have Tiagra on my road bike, Dura Ace on my cross/commuter bike. Both are super smooth, and have held up to many thousands of miles. I have only done a few short rides on Sora, an didn't care for the feel as much.


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## My Own Private Idaho

kreyszig666 said:


> i'll bite.. I had sora on my commute for about a year, and thought they were ok as I'd not used anything else before.
> My next bike had ultegra shifters, and I couldn't believe the difference in shifting. The sora shifters had a good cm of play in them, which I thought was normal. As for the rest of the drivetrain, I'm not sure there is such a noticeable difference. But I put ultegra shifters on that commute as soon as I could (along with moving up to 10speed), and the bike feels much better.
> Perhaps I had set up badly the sora badly (it was a triple to start off with which complicates things a little), but as far as I'm concerned the difference has been well worth it.
> Haven't used tiagra so can't comment. But man those sora shifters sucked.
> 
> EDIT: I just checked the shifters I took off and they were 2200, which is worse than sora. So take the above with that in mind...


I thought we were discussing actual function and durability, not feeling. I agree that my Dura Ace shifters _feel_ better, but function is the same, or similar enough to not matter.


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## muskat

Rumor has it that Tiagra will bring a sparkle to your ladys' eye.


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## Doba

I rode Tiagra for a while. It felt muddy and sluggish compared to what I've got now with my 7800 setup.


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## albert owen

I have bikes with full Ultegra, full 105, 105/FSA mix, Tiagra and Sora. They came as standard on each bike and they all work fine and need almost no tweeking - mile after mile. I can feel absolutely no difference between Ultegra and 105. Tiagra has a slightly less positive "click" when changing. I certainly wouldn't consider upgrading, even from Sora.
Any longevity issues are compensated for by less expense.
Personally I buy my bikes based on Value and Function. Groupset is far less important than overall feel of the frame and wheels IMO.


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## sdeeer

As others have said, when tuned properly, they both work just fine. A rec rider would be fine. 

BUT. Ultegra and DA are more than a step above tiagra for racing. I have never had any miss-shifts with the ultegra during racing that have occured with tiagra. I am a bigger cyclist (190-198) and a sprinter. The tiagra on my starter bike was noticeably more flexible in the drive train. Uphill sprints or jumps really flexed the cranks/chainring more than ultegra. 

Ultegra shifts much better under load and (atleast for me) shifts better on climbs when you do the micro burst/break to shift under less load.

To add even more to the discussion, anybody notice that SRAM will shift fine under even really heavy loads with out the burst/break technique.


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