# Gunnar vs. Waterford - what's the difference?



## dd74 (Aug 2, 2007)

I can't seem to figure it out. If both frames are sort of cousins to each other (or so I've read), and use in some cases, the same materials (Reynolds 853), why is one - The Gunnar Roadie - priced at $800 + or -, and the other - such as the Waterford 2200, priced at $1800, or the 3300 priced at $2200? 

I'm just wondering. Both are beautiful and must ride like a dream. I've had an 853 frame, (Lemond Zurich); great bike even if it was too large for me.


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## acckids (Jan 2, 2003)

Comparing the Gunnar Roadie($800) to the Waterford R14($1400), the Waterford is custom geometry, better paint, two decal options and the Waterford name. The Waterford also costs $600 more. I've owned numerous Gunnars and I bought my custom Gunnar for under $1000 back in 2003. Resale on the Waterford will be better. Will you get $600 more satisfaction from the Waterford, some will say yes just like some will pay $2130 for a stock Serotta Fierte steel frameset. If you have any fit issues(i.e. long legs/short torso or vice versa) go with the Waterford because the cheapest you can get a custom Gunnar in 09 is around $1100.


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## KankRat (Dec 19, 2008)

I was told the difference in the R14 and a Roadie is:
Custom geometry
a rear triangle that is tailord to the rider.
Same paint, but a better finish and more choice of color.

It was once put to me that a Roadie is 80% of a Waterford.

I have an '05 Roadie, with an Alpha Q fork, Mavic Sl3s, Ultegra, Chris King etc. 58cm frame. The whole bke is 18.5lbs according to my fish scale. It's not as stiff as my Cannondale, but it's stiff enough. It's not as cushy as a carbon Roubaix, but it dampens the shock enough. It has a nice feel f the road and the bottom bracket is stiff enough taht it doesn't flex when you stand on it. It has lively steering too. It's very fun to ride.
I think it looks pretty cool too especially with nice parts.

My only complaints. The paint is CRAP. It chips if you look at it wrong. I have a Rockhound too same thing. I am going to have Spectrum powder coat them next time.
This is a big compalint. I bought my frame and fork on ebay for 300 bucks so no biggie. If i payed 800 I would be pissed.
Both my bikes have a lot of chips, in fact every gunnar I have ever seen was loaded with chips.

i weighed the frame once. Can't remember exactly, but I think it was in the high 3's. Not bad for a big frame.

Minor ick picks- Things I would change-
Frame pumps suck- lose the mount and the fender mounts. They look stupid on a racing bike. On my frame the water bottle mount is too high to have a tall waterbottle and a pump and get hem out easily.
I would go with headtube shifter bosss. Especially with the crappy paint. Mine has bare metal where the cables rub. who the heck uses downtube shifters anyway? i suppose someone out there does. Mayb certain shifters work better there I dunno. 

regarding fit- I am long legged and short torsoed. The 58 fits great. 57 top tube and a 17cm headtube are almos perfect. With 2cm osf spacers, the King headset and 6 degree stem flipped up, I only get about an inch of drop.

My advice- If the roadie will fit. Pick up a used one- have it powder coated. You'll love it.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

kinda of a toyota-lexus, nissan-infiniti thing... 'cept the higher end brand came first


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

plus, you can't get a lugged Gunnar, if that matters to you.


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## Mayday (Jan 22, 2004)

*Depends on the model*

Comparing Gunnar to the 14-series Waterford -- their lowest-priced, tig-welded frames -- the main difference is that Waterford are all custom. They both use the "OS-2" tubeset, and a custom Gunnar, especially with custom paint, gets up into the same price range as the 14. 

The 22-series Waterfords are lugged and custom, which gets into higher prices, and the 33 series uses the S-3 tubing, which again is more expensive. 

I'd love a lugged Waterford, but if you fit on stock sizes, I think Gunnar is one of the better values out there on a high-end steel frame.


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## bwhite_4 (Aug 29, 2006)

buck-50 said:


> plus, you can't get a lugged Gunnar, if that matters to you.



Lugs .. that's what really matters in life.


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## dd74 (Aug 2, 2007)

All great information. Thanks for that. I thought I saw on the Gunnar website that a person can order a Roadie with custom geometry for $1,075.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

I have a Gunnar Crosshairs that I use for a commuter. It was a perfect fit for my needs with eyelets for fenders and a rack. The Waterford stainless dropouts are a nice touch on a bike meant to ride in all weather. I haven't had any paint issues but the bike has had fenders from day one so it never had any rocks hit the downtube. I removed the bottom bracket last year for a rebuild (Phil Wood) and the frame was shiny inside with no rust. I really like high end steel for my road bikes (Pegoretti, Merckx) but I found Gunnar to be a great deal with many high end features. I would like to have a Waterford one day with stainless lugs.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

dd74 said:


> All great information. Thanks for that. I thought I saw on the Gunnar website that a person can order a Roadie with custom geometry for $1,075.


It's $1,150 now.  

From the Gunnar website:

_*Made to Measure Geometry:* For someone looking for that truly special bike you can order full custom geometry. As part of the custom service we provide a drawing and confirmation for your approval. Custom Roadies, Sports, Crosshairs, Rock Hounds and Street Dogs: $1150; Rock Hound: $1200, Rock Tours: $1250; Custom Ruffians: $1325._


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## rcnute (Dec 21, 2004)

I had a Waterford RS-11, Gunnar Roadie and Gunnar Sport.

You really can't go wrong with either.

My only complaints are that the STA on the Gunnars are fairly steep and that the paint--while looking beautiful at first--is very fragile. That said, the price is unbeatable, bikes are made to be ridden and a few paint chips never killed anybody.


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

rcnute said:


> a few paint chips never killed anybody.


unless they're lead paint chips.


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

*To make matters worse*

There's actually three Waterford built options: Waterford, Gunnar and Milwaukee.

http://www.benscycle.net/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=612_613

I've own or have owned a Waterford and a Milwaukee. My wife has a Gunnar. You really can't go wrong with any of them. If just depends on what is important to you in a bike.


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## theBreeze (Jan 7, 2002)

*I've had my Roadie for seven seasons.*



KankRat said:


> My only complaints. The paint is CRAP. It chips if you look at it wrong. I have a Rockhound too same thing. I am going to have Spectrum powder coat them next time.
> This is a big compalint. I bought my frame and fork on ebay for 300 bucks so no biggie. If i payed 800 I would be pissed.
> Both my bikes have a lot of chips, in fact every gunnar I have ever seen was loaded with chips.



Bought it new in Nov 2001. It's my main bike and been great on daily rides, tours, and ultradistance events. Only issue was that originally the decals were applied over the clear coat, so of course they peeled fairly quickly.

In 2006 Gunnar offered a repaint special. I shipped them the frame stripped of parts. They stripped the old paint, inspected the frame and repainted it. It came back beautiful, and with a much better paint job than originally. They also included a bottle of touch-up paint. Only place I get chips is around the bottom bracket where gravel might hit (to be expected) and a couple places that got some skid marks from a sliding crash. 

This year I replaced the brifters, the rear der and cassette, and put on a new wheelset. It's like having a whole new bike for half the price. I just couldn't justify the expense of a new bike when the Roadie frame fits me like a glove. Note that the 2001 Roadie frame had a mroe classic geometry than the current frame. I love it.

Photo from 2004


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## rcnute (Dec 21, 2004)

buck-50 said:


> unless they're lead paint chips.


And you ate them!


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## KankRat (Dec 19, 2008)

they taste like chicken!
What me worry???

Paint protects a steel frame from rust. It is a big deal. A steel frame should last a lifetime. It's what you put up with the extra pound or so of weight for. and keep in mind a Gunnar is still a really high performance frame and them tubes are really thin in points.
rust never sleeps. 

To me, it's the only real shortcomming in a Gunnar. Other than that. it's a great steel option. I woul love to have spectrum do something wild to mine1

With regard to lugs.

Steel frames with lugs are beautiful.

If you crash said frame, thy can sometimes be fixed.


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