# My New "Chinese-Taiwanese-Belgian-American" Carbon Wheelset



## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

I've been following and participating in the "China Carbon Wheels" thread for a while and came very close to buying one of Yishun's wheelsets. I think they look great and are a great deal. But instead, I decided to have my local mechanic build me a set of 38mm 24f/28r carbon tubulars on a set of rims I purchased on Ebay from carbonbicycle. I'm sure my 170 lbs would have been fine on 20/24s, but I thought 24/28 would be a little more durable and only add 40 grams or so. I sourced a 289 gram, 6-pawl hubset myself. Although I'm sure DT Revolution spokes would have been fine and not added much weight, I said what the hell and went with Sapim CX-Rays. The entire build came to about 1180 grams with aluminum nipples, about 320 grams lighter than the Kysrium SLs I was riding. I saved about another 100 grams or so with the tires (Conti GP 4000s) and non-QR steel skewers (I could have gone with Ti skewers and saved another 20 grams, but went for stiffness.

So:

325 gram 38mm rims 
289 gram hubset
Sapim CX-Rays/alloy nipples
Conti GP 4000s tubulars
Swisstop Pads

This afternoon I took them out for my standard 27.5 mile ride and averaged 20.5 mph, 1 mph faster than I usually do at an average heart rate of 160 (something this 37-year old is thrilled about!) They just feel lighter and faster, spin up quickly, and are certainly more aero than the boxy Ksyriums (which I still like well enough). They were only marginally more comfortable than the Kysriums, but that may be because my mechanic inflated them to 120 psi. I'm going to bring them down to 100f/105r, which is where I was running my Vittoria Open Corsas (which may also be comfier tire than the GP 4000s)

Overall, I'm very happy with them – and think they look great. Altogether they cost me about $550 (rims, spokes, hubs, labor) + $160 for tires and Swisstop pads + $20 for skewers. Here they are on my 2009 Kestrel RT-900, which now tips the scale, with cages, pedals, and Garmin 500 at 15.3 lbs. Oh, and since all I'll be carrying now is a can of Vitt Pitstop in my pocket, I lost the 1 pound saddle bag too. All I need to do now is switch out the Ultegra cassette for a DA and I'll be under 15 lbs, an absolutely necessary upgrade!


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## BunnV (Sep 7, 2005)

1180 grams for $730 is amazing. 

Nice job! 

Did you actually weigh the finished wheels or add up the weight of the individual parts?


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

No, I'm weighing the parts separately. I gave my mechanic the rims, hubs, and tires – he supplied the spokes and nipples. I probably could have gotten them for less, but I wanted him to make a little more than the labor for the build – I really hope he got them for considerably less than he charged me! The rims were 323 and 325 grams, the Sapims 4.35, nipples .32, x 52 and the hubs 289 = 1179. I suppose I could be off by a +/- 15 grams, but under 1200 I'm confident.


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## estone2 (Sep 25, 2005)

What made you go for 38mm rims?

Nice build, for a great price! What hubs are they? Sorry if you already said, I might be a bit reading-deficient, just finished a ride!


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## scarab$ (Jun 14, 2010)

Totally bad ass! Nicely done!


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

38mms were the perfect balance for me in terms of weight, aero profile, and the kind of riding I do (although I do admit that today I was almost wishing I had gotten 50mms on my first ride, which is easy rolling/flatish terrain). But I plan on taking these to the mountains in North Carolina, so I thought lighter would be better than more aero. 

The hubs are, I think, made by Chosen. Here they are being sold on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-CNC-Road-Bi...Accessories&hash=item35ad458a71#ht_4222wt_907

I got them directly from another distributor in Taiwan. Basically, all of the CNC alloy road hubs you find on Ebay between 270 and 360 grams and selling from $120 to $280 are made in Taiwan by Chosen, Novatec, or some other big parts manufacturer. Sellers from Taiwan laser a logo on and sell them as a "brand." I don't think you'd go wrong with any one them.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

those look great, nice job!


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## mrbubbles (Jul 1, 2007)

Hi, what is the source of your 289 grams hubset? Thanks in advance.


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## chrisvz (Jun 3, 2009)

I built a set of 50's with the same hubs (288gram)... It is my first set of deep wheels and they hold speed nice.... After 400kms I'm very happy with them, the hubs are smooth as butter and they brake very good with swissstop's. So far so good, let's see how they hold up... :thumbsup:


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## EDUC8-or (Jan 2, 2009)

Cool stuff, did you go with bladed spokes?

Also, have you heard of Caffelatex? I have a couple of friends who run it in their tubies. 

How would you rate them in terms of stiffness compared to the Mavics?


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## mimason (Oct 7, 2006)

So what is Belgian in the build?

Contis are German made and aren't Swisstops Swiss?

Nice though.


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## EDUC8-or (Jan 2, 2009)

mimason said:


> So what is Belgian in the build?


Spokes.


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## Waves77 (Aug 15, 2010)

EDUC8-or said:


> Cool stuff, did you go with bladed spokes?
> 
> Also, have you heard of Caffelatex? I have a couple of friends who run it in their tubies.
> 
> How would you rate them in terms of stiffness compared to the Mavics?


I've been running the Caffelatex for about 2 weeks now, with conti tubes and 4000 tires. Too early to tell, but living in NM we have a ton of goatheads, so 2 weeks without a flat is at least a very promising start.


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

very cool indeed. At $550+/- for a 1180 gram wheelset i think were going to see many more of these wheelsets. even if that means going to tubular tires.


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

Here's a breakdown on what these could cost:

$235 rims (shipped)
$110 hubs
$140 spokes (top of the line CX-Rays, which can be found for c.$2.50-2.70 on Ebay)
$80-100 labor

Mine were a little less because my hubs were basically free; I bought a bunch and sold them to pay for this build.


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

DT swiss revolution spokes will drop the per spoke costs to less than half and if you go with DB14 spokes on the drive those will be around a dollar. a way to save some money and not sacrifce low weight.


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

I considered DT Revolutions, but the build was already so inexpensive (relatively) I decided to go with Sapims. I probably couldn't tell the difference, but this is a hobby and Sapims are just what I wanted, so that's what I got. But you're right - you could do this build for about $75 less if one used DT Revs.


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## thesteve4761 (May 29, 2007)

*I built the same, for a bit less!*

I bought a pair of the hubs from the fellow who started this thread, and built them myself. I used the same 38mm rims from Carbonbicycle. My impressions:

First, you will not find a better deal out there for a complete carbon wheelset. Neuvation comes close, but I think these hubs are nicer. 

I used the following:

290 gram hubs, $100- from thread poster

325 gram 24/28 38mm rims $235 shipped- from carbonbicycle on ebay, took 1 week to arrive

DT Revolution spokes front, rear drive side (crow's foot front, 1x heads out drive side)

Sapim CX-Ray non drive 2 cross

Spokes cost me about $40, I had the cx rays already from a previous wheel. 

Total weight, sub 1200 grams (haven't verified, just added parts)

Total price, $375!!! (Save $$$, build your own wheels, it's not hard!!)

I wouldn't have used the cx-rays if I didn't already have them. I have found them to be more prone to breakage, and more inconsistent than anything from DT Swiss.  If I had to buy the ND spokes, I would have used DT Competition 2.0/1.8.

I'll be racing cross on these wheels this weekend. Durability report to follow!


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## BunnV (Sep 7, 2005)

thesteve4761 said:


> I bought a pair of the hubs from the fellow who started this thread, and built them myself. I used the same 38mm rims from Carbonbicycle. My impressions:
> 
> First, you will not find a better deal out there for a complete carbon wheelset. Neuvation comes close, but I think these hubs are nicer.
> 
> ...


You have completely destroyed my dream of owning a set of Edge (Enve) 45mm carbon rims! They are $800 each! Why did you post this????  

How can I justify my overpriced, ego inflating purchase when you document how silly it is for the entire world to see???  

Curse you and your logical, lightweight, greatly affordable wheels! 
You'll pay for this!!!!!!!!!! 

I'm only slightly kidding...............ok, I'm kidding. I wish I knew how much difference there is between what you built compared to what I'm looking to buy at ($2649 retail) :blush2: 

What you've done is awesome and I commend you for it. Seriously, excellent job. :thumbsup:


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## thesteve4761 (May 29, 2007)

To compare Edge/Enve rims to these:

Enve/Edge:
easy to build (molded spoke holes)
even brake track
made in USA by hand (if that matters to you)
VERY strong, in terms of impact resistance, 
Full warranty support from Edge/Enve in Utah
Expensive

Carbonbicycle-
Cheap
probably no warranty/crash replacement support
harder to build (nipples bind inside rim, making it difficult to reach full tension)
cheap
lighter than Edge equivalent
12k weave looks cheap (obviously just my opinion)
great quality for the money
not sure about strength yet


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## BunnV (Sep 7, 2005)

thesteve4761 said:


> To compare Edge/Enve rims to these:
> 
> Enve/Edge:
> easy to build (molded spoke holes)
> ...


 Thanks for a very honest and accurate comparison. :thumbsup:


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## eurotruck (Jul 8, 2009)

*Another source?*

Hello All.......long time reader, first time poster.

Carbonbicycle, of eBay fame, is out of stock on the 50mm tubular 24 hole rims and says 30 days out for more stock. These are 12k finish rims, and I would prefer 3k finish.

Jenny at HongFu sells the 3k finish rims, but is out of stock on the 50mm version as well.

Any other sources for the 50mm tubular rim sets in the 24/28 setup with a 3k finish?

Thanks!


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

I have to admit that the 12k does look cheap compared to the 3k, but then again, my rims were super cheap, super light, and according to my mechanic built up well. I like them so far.


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## eurotruck (Jul 8, 2009)

SBH1973 said:


> I have to admit that the 12k does look cheap compared to the 3k, but then again, my rims were super cheap, super light, and according to my mechanic built up well. I like them so far.



I don't think that the 12k looks cheap at all. It's more a personal preference thing. My frame is 3k and I'd like for the wheels to match. Yes, yes, bike vanity..........it's so rare these days.  


With carbon fiber, it's what's on the inside that counts, and from what your mechanic says, the inside is "built up well", so no worries with your hoops.

Let me know when those hubs arrive. Looks like I'll be waiting for rims anyway.


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

Yeah, I guess the 12k doesn't necessarily look cheap, but I do think the 3k is more refined. 

The hubs are probably somewhere over the Pacific right now. I hope to have them by mid-week. You'd be surprised at how fast the Chinese Ebay sellers can get their carbon products to you though – my rims arrived in less than a week.


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

*Second Ride*

Finally got out for my second ride on my new wheels (work, weather, and family obligations have prevented me from riding more lately). Anyway, these are really fantastic. I was hardly pushing it and easily managed 1 mph over my normal speed at the same level of effort. I also brought down the psi from 120 f/r to 100f/105 rear, which I think is where I'll keep it for a while. This did make for a slightly comfier ride over all.

The only thing that's going to take some getting used to is the awful sound it makes when braking. Perhaps this is because the pads (Swisstop) and braking surface are new, but it makes that terrible sound of – well, bending metal? You probably know what I'm talking about, I hope anyway. Is this normal?


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

so how is the wheelset doing? are you over 200 miles on them? any problems?


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

cmg said:


> so how is the wheelset doing? are you over 200 miles on them? any problems?


I've got maybe 250 miles on them now – just haven't been getting out much (weather, work, family, etc) and have experienced no problems at all. They're true as the day they were finished, no flexiness, all around very nice.

I do wish I had gone with Vittoria Corsas instead of GP4000s, which I just don't think are as supple. Maybe I'm just imagining things, but I still kind of like something more about the ride of the Corsas CXs on my Kysriums. 

Other than that, these are just faster, plain and simple, than the Kysriums they replaced. I sometimes wonder if I should be riding around on tubulars when I'm just a recreational cyclist (albeit one who likes to go as fast as he can). But it's nice riding on superlight, super-nice wheels on a now very light bike. What the hell!


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## Lucky Carl (Jun 28, 2009)

SBH1973 said:


> Finally got out for my second ride on my new wheels (work, weather, and family obligations have prevented me from riding more lately). Anyway, these are really fantastic. I was hardly pushing it and easily managed 1 mph over my normal speed at the same level of effort. I also brought down the psi from 120 f/r to 100f/105 rear, which I think is where I'll keep it for a while. This did make for a slightly comfier ride over all.
> 
> The only thing that's going to take some getting used to is the awful sound it makes when braking. Perhaps this is because the pads (Swisstop) and braking surface are new, but it makes that terrible sound of – well, bending metal? You probably know what I'm talking about, I hope anyway. Is this normal?


I am currently looking at some chinese carbon wheels and was wondering how you were going with the braking on your set. Has the noise decreased over time as they have bedded in? 

Thanks in advance!


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## ScottStoef (Feb 19, 2011)

I looked at the poroducts from the bike hub store and they look pretty good. Then I saw these on Ebay and thought maybe they were worth the exta cost? 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110649278508&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


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## ScottStoef (Feb 19, 2011)

SBH1973 said:


> Here's a breakdown on what these could cost:
> 
> $235 rims (shipped)
> $110 hubs
> ...


Wow it looks like the cost of the rims has definitely gone up quite a bit from carbonbicycle. They are now charging 290 plus shipping for a set of 60mm rims, but they sell their 56mm for 192 plus shipping. What gives?


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

Honestly, with the exception of a few rides, I just haven't been out much this winter. The breaking noise hasn't decreased much, but I don't have many more miles since my last report.

These rims are what they are: cheap Chinese carbon rims. The ride well enough, look okay, but are not in the same league, I'm sure, as $1000 rims. But they're also not garbage, as some of the more disparaging critics will tell you. They're okay. I think they're also safe, especially in the tubular model. I suppose, though, only time will tell. Come late March I should be back up to 100-150 miles week. I'll post regular reports.



Lucky Carl said:


> I am currently looking at some chinese carbon wheels and was wondering how you were going with the braking on your set. Has the noise decreased over time as they have bedded in?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


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## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

I don't think the braking noise will ever go away. The "brake track" is not treated in any way. 

I've got about 700 miles (still in great shape) on my 50mm's and the squeal is still there. The only thing that seems to quiet them down is to sand the surface of the brake pads periodically. A glaze will eventually build up on the pad surface...that seems to be causing the brake squeal...at least for me.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

Try the Reynolds blue pads. They cost half as much as SwissStop yellows and work better.


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## serum (Mar 20, 2010)

About the brake noise; I assume you are familiar with the toe-in trick for the brake shoes?


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

Actually, I'm not - can you enlighten me? (I'm feeling a little lazy and don't want to reread lots of posts right now!)




serum said:


> About the brake noise; I assume you are familiar with the toe-in trick for the brake shoes?


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## serum (Mar 20, 2010)

Well, since honesty goes a long way..

http://www.jimlangley.net/wrench/brake1.htm 

last paragraph of the site explains what it means/does/prevents. I normally sand the brake shoes first, (assembled to the aluminum holder) so they are completely flat/true to begin with. my swissstops came slightly curved at the center of the shoe, which caused a smaller contact area, resulting in less stopping power.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

ericm979 said:


> Try the Reynolds blue pads. They cost half as much as SwissStop yellows and work better.


x2 Best pad I've used to date.


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

Thanks, I will definitely try this. And thanks for saving me the trouble of searching for this answer - I owe you five minutes of my life. 




serum said:


> Well, since honesty goes a long way..
> 
> http://www.jimlangley.net/wrench/brake1.htm
> 
> last paragraph of the site explains what it means/does/prevents. I normally sand the brake shoes first, (assembled to the aluminum holder) so they are completely flat/true to begin with. my swissstops came slightly curved at the center of the shoe, which caused a smaller contact area, resulting in less stopping power.


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## T0mi (Mar 2, 2011)

I just built my own set of 38mm carbon wheels. I have gone completely chinese, with Dixi Hubs, and CNSpoke aero 424 and chinese ti skewers.

Hubs, rims and skewers were bought a few months ago but a baby put a halt to all wheelbuilding projects for a while. I built them myself. When I asked my local lbs for valve extenders, he didn't looked very happy to hear I had bought cheap chinese rims instead of the pretty cosmic ssc he had on display.

Can't wait to ride them, I've gone with swisstop pads too and Tufo Elite Jet tubs (160gr ones). Tubs will be glued next friday :

I don't really like the look of 12k carbon weaves but I wanted to try something different this time (I already built a set of 3k 88mm track wheels) :


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## Bridgey (Mar 26, 2003)

While I don't like the 12k weave in frames, I have to admit they look pretty cool in wheels. I might order and build up a set myself. What was your final weight for wheels only? Where did you get your rims from?


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## T0mi (Mar 2, 2011)

510gr front and 700gr rear according to my completely unreliable plastic kitchen scale. They are from carbon_bicycle user on ebay (I believe dengfu is behind this name).


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

Very nice. Same rims I used, and I, too, wish I had gotten 3k, but it wasn't available. Your hubs, though, are made in Taiwan. China hasn't, as far as I know, gotten into the higher-end/light CNC alloy hub market. Taiwanese factories churn out about 25 models in this quality range, all about the same.

Anyway, they look great. Congrats. 

If you paid what, $240/shipped for these wheels off eBay, and $20 at least went to eBay, $30 for shipping, and the seller still made a profit, can you imagine just how inexpensive these rims are to actually manufacturer? I'd say around $50 or so after all costs. What that means is that a Chinese seller can probably build a wheelset (hubs, spokes, labor included) for around $100/set, especially if they're building in quantity. So when Yishun sells a set of wheels for $400, he's probably making $250-$300/set. Not bad. 




T0mi said:


> I just built my own set of 38mm carbon wheels. I have gone completely chinese, with Dixi Hubs, and CNSpoke aero 424 and chinese ti skewers.
> 
> Hubs, rims and skewers were bought a few months ago but a baby put a halt to all wheelbuilding projects for a while. I built them myself. When I asked my local lbs for valve extenders, he didn't looked very happy to hear I had bought cheap chinese rims instead of the pretty cosmic ssc he had on display.
> 
> ...


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## rudedog55 (Aug 10, 2009)

SBH1973 said:


> Very nice. Same rims I used, and I, too, wish I had gotten 3k, but it wasn't available. Your hubs, though, are made in Taiwan. China hasn't, as far as I know, gotten into the higher-end/light CNC alloy hub market. Taiwanese factories churn out about 25 models in this quality range, all about the same.
> 
> Anyway, they look great. Congrats.
> 
> If you paid what, $240/shipped for these wheels off eBay, and $20 at least went to eBay, $30 for shipping, and the seller still made a profit, can you imagine just how inexpensive these rims are to actually manufacturer? I'd say around $50 or so after all costs. What that means is that a Chinese seller can probably build a wheelset (hubs, spokes, labor included) for around $100/set, especially if they're building in quantity. So when Yishun sells a set of wheels for $400, he's probably making $250-$300/set. Not bad.


i am seeing they are getting these back in stock, in 3k and 12k plus different depths. I am gonna pull the trigger on the 56's or 60's depending on which ones i can get in 24/28. 

How do you guys like the CN spokes, i wanna do a set with black and a set with white.

SBH1973, was looking at the hubs you have, they are nice, any in white?? or just the anodized colors or black?? And do they accept the CN aero spoke??


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## ColoRoadie (Aug 5, 2010)

The CN spokes seem interesting and are tempting but I can't find any reviews of them and their weights also seem to be a mystery. My frame is chinese and I love it so I'm not scared of ordering from there but are these spokes newly released or am I just not finding the reviews out there?


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

rudedog55 said:


> i am seeing they are getting these back in stock, in 3k and 12k plus different depths. I am gonna pull the trigger on the 56's or 60's depending on which ones i can get in 24/28.
> 
> How do you guys like the CN spokes, i wanna do a set with black and a set with white.
> 
> SBH1973, was looking at the hubs you have, they are nice, any in white?? or just the anodized colors or black?? And do they accept the CN aero spoke??


None in white, sorry. I've seen them on eBay though. You might look there. 

I'm not sure what makes the CN Aero spoke different than any other. Do they require a slotted/notched hole? I have been selling those, but am moving away from them as most builders have told me they're unnecessary.


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## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

I just weighed one of my spare CN's and it came out to 6.7gr.


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## Bridgey (Mar 26, 2003)

6.7gms are correct. There is a site out there (try the Yishun site. I think it links to it). But I'd probably go Pillar spokes. They are still pretty cheap and weigh in close to 2grms less a spoke.


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## rudedog55 (Aug 10, 2009)

AvantDale said:


> I just weighed one of my spare CN's and it came out to 6.7gr.


That is pretty heavy for a spoke, aren't the DT swiss aerolites and Cx_rays in the 4.5g area??

But let me be realistic, the extra 100g's on the wheels when i weight 200lbs is not really that much considering the price difference.


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## Guymk (Mar 27, 2009)

ScottStoef said:


> Wow it looks like the cost of the rims has definitely gone up quite a bit from carbonbicycle. They are now charging 290 plus shipping for a set of 60mm rims, but they sell their 56mm for 192 plus shipping. What gives?


Could be that the 60mm rims were clinchers? The clincher rims are around $100 more expensive than the tubular rims.


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

I think the tubulars are still running around $200-$230 and the clinchers $240-300 for sets, depending on depth. What's happening is the Chinese sellers are probably pushing the price up because demand warrants it. If you can get a few bucks more, why not. But still, it's only about $10-$20 more than I paid in October. 




Guymk said:


> Could be that the 60mm rims were clinchers? The clincher rims are around $100 more expensive than the tubular rims.


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## rudedog55 (Aug 10, 2009)

i was quoted today $215 a set for 2 sets of 56mm carbon tubbies in 24h/28h configuration from Carbon_bicycle, i am waiting for the invoice to pay for them, i also got free shipping, so that saves me another $100 or so off the ebay listing.

I wanted 60's but the wait was another month for those, and i really do not need 60's for cross racing anyway.

Very sorry to the OP for totally hijacking this thread, my bad bro.

but your wheels were inspirational, lo l


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

That's a great deal. I was amazed at how quickly mine got to me too - like 3 days. Good luck with your build and be sure to post pics, in this thread (I sure don't care) or in a new one. 



rudedog55 said:


> i was quoted today $215 a set for 2 sets of 56mm carbon tubbies in 24h/28h configuration from Carbon_bicycle, i am waiting for the invoice to pay for them, i also got free shipping, so that saves me another $100 or so off the ebay listing.
> 
> I wanted 60's but the wait was another month for those, and i really do not need 60's for cross racing anyway.
> 
> ...


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## seanymph (Dec 21, 2009)

can you buys post the links of the ebay sellers you're buying from? i'm very interested in trying to build a set of wheels! i'm not sure if i want to go tubalor, i dont know if i like the idea of all the glueing.

sonnyd.
pa


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## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

How does one determine spoke length, with a 60mm rim? Would it depend on the flange on the hub too? I want to build a rear wheel.


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## two-one (May 22, 2009)

I was considering the same sort of deal, but keep wondering how tubulars will handle once-a-week trainingrides. After all, there should be some affordable and tough tubular tyres for sale, right?


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

two-one said:


> I was considering the same sort of deal, but keep wondering how tubulars will handle once-a-week trainingrides. After all, there should be some affordable and tough tubular tyres for sale, right?


They are available. Look for a lower TPI with more rubber. In a vittoria I raced on cx tubulars but trained on vittoria ralleys. Not as cushy but a decent tubular, especially for the money. 

Jr


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## petepeterson (Jan 4, 2011)

A lot of people including myself ride tubulars all the time.


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## topflightpro (Nov 3, 2004)

OP, I'm pretty sure I saw your bike in Back Alley several months ago.


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

You very well might have, back in October? If you were there today you might have seen it as well. Jason replaced a cable for me which got the shifting working again. Can't say enough good things about Jason, Rob, and the others at Back Alley Bikes.


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## jtimmer1 (Mar 28, 2009)

^^^

Back Alley Bikes FTW!


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## topflightpro (Nov 3, 2004)

Yep, it was last October, I believe right after you got them. At the time, I was looking at getting some generic 50mm rims, but the wife said no. She did not want me buying generic Chinese rims.


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## boberic (Jun 1, 2010)

I'm wondering if anybody is doing a group purchase for Chinese carbon fiber rims (or would be interested in being a part of a new one).


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

Well, if you ever want to take a look at mine, you're welcome to (I'm in Chapel Hill, in the county off of Dodsons Crossroads). I really think this bias against Chinese rims is unfounded. If they're such a problem, why aren't we hearing about it, especially here? They may not be in the same class as Gigantex or Zipp, but they're pretty nice for the money. I feel perfectly safe on them myself. I suppose the idea "Chinese carbon" is frightening, but that's all. The product is fine.


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## william9092 (Jun 18, 2006)

Just wondering if anyone here has purchased a 'stock' carbon wheelset from whichever manufacturer, and upgraded the hubs at a later date?


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## two-one (May 22, 2009)

Were the rim spoke-holes staggered left/right, or all centered? Could be usefull for triplet-lacing...


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

*1000+ Mile Update*

Well, I now have well over 1000 miles on my Chinese-Taiwanese-Belgian-American wheelset - should be a lot more, but I just didn't get to do much riding during the past six months. I'm now putting about 120 miles on them a week and learning to like them even more. Anyway, I thought I'd post a quick update.

In short, the wheels are performing really well. I can't really complain at all (although I will in a minute). They are very light, stiff, and spin up quickly - as I originally reported. They've stayed true and have not had to be re-tensioned, nothing to brag about, I know, but still good news. (And not surprising - Jason at Back Alley Bikes in Carrboro, NC, the mechanic who built them, knows his business). What I like about them most is not how quickly they accelerate from 0-15 mph, but how well they go from 15 to 25. And they really do help me maintain 20-23 mph on solo rides more easily. In my riding area there is really only one hill long and steep enough to get any speed on. It used to take me everything I had to break 40 mph with my Ksyriums; with these I'm just shy of 44 mph on the same hill. I look forward to riding them in the mountains of North Carolina, where I'm hoping I'll notice the weight difference (almost 400 grams less than the Ksyriums w/tires). If a descent were straight and long enough, I'd take these to 50 mph. They brake well enough, even in wet conditions, but the sound is awful when you apply full force. There is a fix for this - sandpaper to the pads, etc - but I just haven't gotten around to it, so I guess I can't blame the wheels. The GP4000 tubulars seem fine, although I don't think they're any more comfortable than the Vittoria Open Corsa CX IIs I was running on my Kysrium SLs. If I stick with these wheels, I'll eventually go to Vittorias. I'm pretty sure that riding tubulars saved me at lease once from what I'm sure would have been a pinch flat with a clincher tire.

Now, I have nothing to compare these wheels to other than clinchers - Mavic Cosmos (awesome wheels!), Ksyrium SLs and Dave Thomas and Mike Garcia customs. For me, they've proved to be about 1.0-1.5 mph on average than any other clincher I've ridden. While they're faster, lighter, and probably stiffer (24/28 was a good decision), I can't say they're a lot more comfortable, and maybe they should be. Perhaps that is a weakness. This may have something to do with the tires I chose, and I still haven't brought them down under 100 psi - just can't bring myself to do it for some reason! I doubt they're as well-balanced and certainly not as refined as a high-end carbon wheelset. And I don't think they're in the same league as just about any wheelset over $1000.00 made with Taiwanese or American carbon (for example Boyds). I'm also not crazy about the 12k weave, which looks kind of cheap, and wish I had gone with the 3k. And having recently imported some Gigantex rims, I can see that they're just not as well-finished as a higher-end carbon rim. The awful braking noise is annoying (but again fixable - to an extent - if I weren't so lazy), and I'm still not crazy about being 20 miles away from home on tubulars. I may end up going back to clinchers, either carbon or alloy. But at c.$750 including build, not cheap tires, and gluing done for me, OTD, I think they're still a great deal, especially for a non-racer hobbyist like myself who really just wanted to try tubulars and get his bike down to 15 lbs! Certainly a worthwhile experiment, even if I am really a clincher guy at heart with no need for wheels like this. 

Anyway, for what it's worth, you could do worse, I think, than importing a set of cheap carbon clinchers from China and building them up with some cheap and not-so-cheap hubs and spokes. But if you've got more money to spend, you could do better - no doubt. Unlike the recent reviewer of a BWW wheelset, I can't say these have been "transcendental" or brought me to a higher state of being on the road. But they've made me a bit faster, a lot lighter and they're fun to talk about in forums and in group rides, as attested by this rambling review.


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## Bnystrom (Oct 27, 2007)

*Caffelatex vs. Stan's sealant*



EDUC8-or said:


> Also, have you heard of Caffelatex? I have a couple of friends who run it in their tubies.


Caffelatex is junk; it simply doesn't work. Mountain bike action has out a test in the July 2011 issue that confirms my experience with it. Complete waste o' money!

OTOH, Stan's sealant works great! I use in in clinchers with tubes ('cross bike), tubeless clinchers (MTB) and tubulars (all of my road wheels). I haven't had a flat on a tubie in over three seasons! I did have some pressure loss in one once, so I know the sealant is working and it's not just incredible luck. I haven't had any flats on the 'cross bike, but I've only had it a few months. I can't even remember my last MTB flat.

The only issue I've had with Stan's is that it can be difficult to pump it into a presta valve that doesn't have a removable valve core, so this is something to consider when buying tubulars and tubes. I may need to filter it through a fine screen to remove any valve-clogging chunks.


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## Bnystrom (Oct 27, 2007)

*Thanks for the details*

I've been planning to build a set of similar wheels for a while now. I have a Zipp 182 rear hub that I got for a great price and I'll probably pick up an inexpensive front hub (Circus Monkey or similar), as I really can't see spending much on what amounts to an axle, a shell and two bearings. I think I'll probably go with Yishunbike 38mm rims, simply because they have coated brake tracks, which should enhance their durability. It seems like it would be worth the extra cost. 

http://www.yishunbike.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=143_161&products_id=58

I also like the 3K weave better than 12K, though I would rather have matte UD, if it doesn't cost extra. Worst case,a few minutes with some 0000 steel wool will turn gloss 3K into matte 3K with no danger of damaging the carbon.

They have good prices on Chosen hubs, too. 

Here's a source for Sapim spokes at incredibly low prices:

http://www.danscomp.com/shop-PARTS/Spokes.html

I'll report back when I get them built.


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## e.honda (Jun 25, 2011)

Late to the party I know, but I ordered tubulars with carbon hubs from Yishun. Very disappointed and afraid to ride them. The brake track is complete crap. I'd never believe they were basalt in the first place. Kevin Chen mentioned an exchange but wanted me to ship the wheels back. I've never shipped anything to China, and can't get off work to go to the nearest international shipper anyway. So, I'm out 600 bucks and the wheels are just sitting. The day after he mentioned shipping them back, he was suddenly not online ever again and won't answer emails. Buyer beware.


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

Sorry to hear that. I did not buy Yishun's rims, although for the most part people - with some big exceptions - are pretty happy with them. I bought my rims from an eBay seller (carbon_bicycle I think) who sells them for even less. The brake track on mine appears somewhat thinner, but more uniform.

I've noticed that the brake track is where the Taiwanese manufacturers (Mega, Gigantex, Merek, etc) seem to distinguish themselves most from the Chinese. I think this is less of an issue for tubulars than it is for clinchers.


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## alias33 (Sep 15, 2008)

Looks like those rims delaminated, are you in a mountainous area or do alot of braking?


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## petepeterson (Jan 4, 2011)

my wheels from yishun look like that and they work completely fine. What are you afraid of?


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## e.honda (Jun 25, 2011)

They couldn't have delaminated, I've never even had tires on them.

@ Pete - Do you mind showing me pictures? I've never seen a wheel with unfinished brake tracks. I know you get what you pay for, but I never expected to see this...and I'm afraid of them coming apart.


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## petepeterson (Jan 4, 2011)

best photo I have of the brake track at the moment. I suspect the uneven finish is from them machining/finishing the brake track and is completely non-structural. Try talking to Stefano he communicates well in my experience cheers.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

I don't see a problem with the photos either. Are you worried about the small divets in the carbon brake track? That's pretty normal with those rims.


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## e.honda (Jun 25, 2011)

Well ok then, nevermind haha. I just expected a finished appearance. I've only been exposed to high dollar wheelsets before and have never seen that kind of craftsmanship.

I've never ridden tubulars either. What tires would anyone suggest for tshirt rides and triathlon racing?


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

A good tubular that will last a long time is the Continental Sprinter. A lot of people also like the Vitorria CX's, but I think those are less durable.


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## seanymph (Dec 21, 2009)

hey petepeterson, what size are those wheels? 38mm? 50?
sonnyd
pa


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## petepeterson (Jan 4, 2011)

seanymph said:


> hey petepeterson, what size are those wheels? 38mm? 50?
> sonnyd
> pa


50 mm


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## boberic (Jun 1, 2010)

nightfend said:


> I don't see a problem with the photos either. Are you worried about the small divets in the carbon brake track? That's pretty normal with those rims.


I guess I would be a little bit concerned about the machining of carbon fiber. Are expensive CF rims like that too?


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## Bnystrom (Oct 27, 2007)

I completely understand your disappointment, but keep in mind that this is a sacrificial layer that's going to wear down with use. It may not be much of a problem. If you're not going to send them back, you may as well ride them, as the rest of the rim looks well-made. Given this, I may take a second look at the Ebay vendors (bikebicyle99 and carbonbicycle).

BTW, you can ship international packages at any Post Office. I don't think a wheel box is too large, but you can check on the USPS site.


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