# Armstrong's new skill..



## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

I've admired Lance's prowess on the bike for years. I am no 'Lancy-boy' nor am I one a those jealous 'Lance haters' that takes every chance that comes along to try to 'trash' the guy. I admit that as an older Masters racer, I am actually rooting for him to do well with his comeback..but there is reality. 

So Lance will probably soon be learning a new (for him) skill, most likely on this year's tour. Something that almost every cyclist I've ever raced with or against has tried repeatedly to master: The skill Lance has yet to learn about bike racing? And one that very few succeed with? Explaining (so that it doesn't sound too dang lame) to yourself and everyone else why you didn't quite win a race...a stage..a tour...

Now 99 out of 100 racers get to practice, to try to learn this skill from their very first Cat 5 outing...and we all work on it religiously...Go for a walk around any post race gathering and you'll hear thousands of attempts..Poor old Lance, he's just a beginner at 'excuses'...a regular rookie..But he'll learn, I guess. Maybe he should ask LeMond for some tips? hee hee!


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

We'll see.

If networks (such as Versus) stop their 4 hours of pre-coverage Lance blah blah blah, he may not. It was clear Versus was promoting him as the winner today--and promptly had their predictions ran over with a truck.

Methinks in a few days the over-the-top Lance coverage will go away when/if Lance is not winning stages. After a while in Tour de Suisse it was obvious he wasn't going to win or get a jersey-and those covering him ceased the Lance media insanity.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Needing excuses? Gee whiz. The guy is 40 seconds off the top tt time? Iirc, he's not in it to win it anyway. 

Fan flipping tastic. I'm just happy to see him ride again.


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## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> .... he's not in it to win it anyway.
> .


OK, this I don't believe. hard for me to imagine Armstrong taking on anything without planning to win.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

*40 secs behind the world's best? with 20 stages to go?*

40 secs behind the world's best? with 20 stages to go?

not bad.

for lance to have a chance, he has to hang back til the right moment. if lance gave all today, disregarding the next 3 weeks, he would be closer to 1st - by how much i don't know, but he has actually won indiv time trials in TdF.

If he won, he would have a target on the back of his (yellow) jersey for the next 3 weeks.

obvious. but i guess the idea was good enough to prompt a couple posts in response to the OP.


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## brentster (Jul 12, 2007)

Marc said:


> We'll see.
> 
> Methinks in a few days the over-the-top Lance coverage will go away when/if Lance is not winning stages. After a while in Tour de Suisse it was obvious he wasn't going to win or get a jersey-and those covering him ceased the Lance media insanity.


Huhhh? I guess I missed the insanity. I didn't realize he was even in the Tour de Suisse.

:mad2:


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

PJay said:


> 40 secs behind the world's best? with 20 stages to go?


total n00b.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

brentster said:


> Huhhh? I guess I missed the insanity. I didn't realize he was even in the Tour de Suisse.
> 
> :mad2:


Pardon the brain fart-I was thinking of the Giro.


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## cyclesport45 (Dec 10, 2007)

His being behind Fabian C. means nothing. Fabian is a monster TT man. But, he is NOT going to win the TDF. Being behind Contador by, what, 25 seconds (I forget what it is exactly), THATis significant. I'll bet he'll be top ten... MAYBE 5th. Anyone want to take that bet??


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

Versus sells Armstrong because armstrong sells. They also sell all the American and English speaking riders, because that is the target audience. 

You should have also noticed sherwin was explaining things to the lowest common denominator. Versus knows many first time viewers were tuning in today, so they delivered to their new audience. 

And LA coming up with excuses for today? sure. Whatever makes you think.


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## CARBON110 (Apr 17, 2002)

I'll take that bet - I bet Lance is on the podium 

Contador is awesome AWESOME - but even on the Angrilu he wasn't Lance in the mountains and LA is light and has been refining his climbing for months - at this level it is about pain and staying healthy - obviously AC and LA did their physical prep just right - along with the rest of the top10-20

today was just a test nothing more to see who is fit and who isn't - LA is 22 seconds or so behind, that can be made up in a time bonus on a stage win, which he surely will have - the pressure remains on Contador 

it is still anyone;s game


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

The pressure is on them all. Armstrong, Contador, Evans all looked VERY nervous before the off. The Eurosport team reckoned that Lance's hands were shaking!!


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

CARBON110 said:


> I'll take that bet - I bet Lance is on the podium
> 
> Contador is awesome AWESOME - but even on the Angrilu he wasn't Lance in the mountains and LA is light and has been refining his climbing for months - at this level it is about pain and staying healthy - obviously AC and LA did their physical prep just right - along with the rest of the top10-20
> 
> ...


there are no time bonuses in the tour.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

This tour is biased to the climbers.........TT's mean less this year than most years. You won't be able to judge LA's capability until the high mountains.

But it's hard to see how he makes up 25 seconds on Contador in the mountains......unless Contador cracks.

If he cracks the top 5 it will be very impressive.

IMO

Len


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## JustTooBig (Aug 11, 2005)

PJay said:


> 40 secs behind the world's best? with 20 stages to go?
> 
> not bad.
> 
> ...


Cavendish was clearly holding back today -- he's in the running for a sprint win on Stage 2. 

To speculate that Lance was holding back is ... well, it's laughable. Do you REALLY believe that 20 min of balls-out effort is going to kill his GC opportunities??? That's VERY funny!


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Wheee this is fun!


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

oarsman said:


> OK, this I don't believe. hard for me to imagine Armstrong taking on anything without planning to win.



I agree. Difficult for me to imagine as well. But, perhaps having a few years under his belt now, has put his focus in a different perspective.

If anything though, I do believe he said he has a score to settle with a particular mountain. :thumbsup:


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## CARBON110 (Apr 17, 2002)

Len J said:


> This tour is biased to the climbers.........TT's mean less this year than most years. You won't be able to judge LA's capability until the high mountains.
> 
> But it's hard to see how he makes up 25 seconds on Contador in the mountains......unless Contador cracks.
> 
> ...


we have never seen LA/AC ride against one another in the mountains. LA is performing as well as he has in the past so far so what makes you think he can't hang with AC? His age? Have you not had the chance to ride with older former pros/olympic riders? age means little at this level especially when you're that naturally gifted 

I haven't read anything that states there won't be time bonuses for stage wins this year? Is that new for 2009? As I was reading over the stage previews it was stated there will be 20 seconds for the winner


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

CARBON110 said:


> we have never seen LA/AC ride against one another in the mountains. LA is performing as well as he has in the past so far so what makes you think he can't hang with AC? His age? Have you not had the chance to ride with older former pros/olympic riders? age means little at this level especially when you're that naturally gifted
> 
> I haven't read anything that states there won't be time bonuses for stage wins this year? Is that new for 2009? As I was reading over the stage previews it was stated there will be 20 seconds for the winner


LA isn't performing as well as he has in the past...........look at his TT record in previous tours....today was a step behind those.

As to wether he can hang with AC in the mountains..........AC has been the best climber in the world the last 3 years or so......so I stand by my comment that's it hard to see how Armstrong can make p 25 seconds on Cantador. Not impossible, but hard to see.

As to time bonuses:

From Cyclingnews. "As introduced last year, there are to be no time bonuses on the line for stage winners – or at intermediate sprints. The Tour will instead be measured in real time, with the time that riders cross the line to be the one taken. As Tour organiser ASO put it: "Official time remains the absolute reference". This real time also extends to the re-introduced team time trial, back for the first time since 2005. No longer will slower teams be able to rely on the limited time penalties imposed in previous years; time lost on the line will translate to time lost in the overall classification. " http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2009/tour09/

Len


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## CARBON110 (Apr 17, 2002)

Len J said:


> LA isn't performing as well as he has in the past...........look at his TT record in previous tours....today was a step behind those.
> 
> As to wether he can hang with AC in the mountains..........AC has been the best climber in the world the last 3 years or so......so I stand by my comment that's it hard to see how Armstrong can make p 25 seconds on Cantador. Not impossible, but hard to see.
> 
> ...


thanks Len 

you may very well be right. Looking at his post race interviews I'd say given his weight loss and time training in the mountains they both have their work cut out and will finish 1/2 unless garmin pulls something extraordinary and wiggens can climb like a goat. Garmin said they are gunning for the TTT but I don't see them beating Levi,Lance, Contador, Kloden, to name a few. With Astana's team, they can even afford a few mistakes @ the TTT

or so it seems . . .


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## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

Len J said:


> .... This real time also extends to the re-introduced team time trial, back for the first time since 2005. No longer will slower teams be able to rely on the limited time penalties imposed in previous years; time lost on the line will translate to time lost in the overall classification. "


Had forgotten about that. Eeek..... Astana could go 1-4 on GC!. I mean, which other team is going to be close to that juggernaut? Well, I suppose AC might accidently run LA off the road or something, but that seems sort of far-fetched.


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## SRV (Dec 26, 2006)

Len J said:


> From Cyclingnews. .....This real time also extends to the re-introduced team time trial, back for the first time since 2005. No longer will slower teams be able to rely on the limited time penalties imposed in previous years; time lost on the line will translate to time lost in the overall classification. " http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2009/tour09/
> 
> Len


I didn't know this. This could kill Sastre's chances to win this tour. I see Cervelo losing many minutes in a TTT.

Regarding Armstrong, I looked back through his wins and he only won the prologue in '99 and '02. He was usually pretty close, but it seems that this was an unusually long prologue so the time gaps are magnified. It's possible that he's lost a little but I think he is a master of measuring his effort for the whole three weeks.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

SRV said:


> I didn't know this. This could kill Sastre's chances to win this tour. I see Cervelo losing many minutes in a TTT.
> 
> Regarding Armstrong, I looked back through his wins and he only won the prologue in '99 and '02. He was usually pretty close, but it seems that this was an unusually long prologue so the time gaps are magnified. It's possible that he's lost a little but I think he is a master of measuring his effort for the whole three weeks.



As I recall, every TT/Prologue stage from the his last 7 TdFs was either a win or a top 5 finish for Armstrong. Today was neither.

I don't have a linky handy, but there was a grphic to this effect prior to Lance having his go today on Versus.


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## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Wheee this is fun!


Isn't it though?


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

you guys are reading into this way too much

they all raced that stage completely fresh, we will see lance's form (and everyone else's) when he tries to back up a few 200+km days ...


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

I'm a big Lance Armstrong fan. But hey, I'm wishing, but not holding my breath for him to win this Tour alright.

Alberto Contador may well line up to be an LA of his own with his fantastic time trial ability now.

He's easily a top 3-5 TT-er amongst the GC men and well, overall, probably around top 5 as well. Granted, the course suited him with the climbing but I don't see him falling much further on a flat out TT either. 

Fabian Cancellara - he's an ITT demon. Not like Grabsch. This guy will slay every TT unless it's a significant climbing one. Then again, look at the Olympics. But, I still stand by what I say - only hilly ones will stop him.

Today - Lance... Well... He said he wasn't expecting the win etc. Fair assessment indeed. He didn't say he wasn't GOING to try for it. He said he wasn't expecting it. He rode easier at the start and hammered it home on the descend and made time up. Fair strategy as well. Just well, not as great as he used to be.

Why? Think collarbone as well. I'm sure that without that injury, Lance would have finished in the top 5 today perhaps.

And, this is why I think Lance also may not be able to win the Tour - his TT ability has dropped. So, that means his peak power has also dropped or isn't up there like he hopes. Thus, that would probably then mean he can't dish it out that well in the mountains. 

Of course, Lance Armstrong isn't dumb either. He knows this. So what does he do? He loses more upper body weight and is lighter than he used to be in the Tour. What does this mean? His power to weight ratio goes up yet again, and thus, enabling him to have that same ratio (or very close) like he had during his wins.

His ITT suffers but waaaaaaiiiit a minute.... Why not use the TTT to his advantage this year as well since there isn't a real ITT that massive anyway right? There you go. The genius of the peloton and media, Lance Armstrong.

So it will be interesting indeed.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Marc said:


> As I recall, every TT/Prologue stage from the his last 7 TdFs was either a win or a top 5 finish for Armstrong. Today was neither.
> 
> I don't have a linky handy, but there was a grphic to this effect prior to Lance having his go today on Versus.


He never finished outside top 5 (or was it top 4) except in one prologue where he was 7th. 2002 or 2003 IIRC. Or another year.


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## foofighter (Dec 19, 2008)

as long as lance's comeback gets the attention that he wants for his foundation and it gets people off their arse to ride a bike and be like lance etc then i'm all for it. 

love him or hate him he's done great things to bring cycling to mainstream america i just have a feeling this is going to be one insanely good TdF


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## takmanjapan (Mar 24, 2004)

*Lance's new skill will really be....*

Fetching bottles as he is #4 in the pecking order after yesterday. Contador, Kloden, and Leipheimer all faster. Contador's ride certainly sends a message to the other riders (his won team included) and Johan about who is the chief and who will be fetching bottles and riding on the front.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

takmanjapan said:


> Fetching bottles as he is #4 in the pecking order after yesterday. Contador, Kloden, and Leipheimer all faster. Contador's ride certainly sends a message to the other riders (his won team included) and Johan about who is the chief and who will be fetching bottles and riding on the front.


Of course, this was only the first stage and a lot of things can still happen in the days to come.


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## Fredke (Dec 10, 2004)

takmanjapan said:


> Fetching bottles as he is #4 in the pecking order after yesterday.


Do you think he'll fetch more bottles for Conti than Hinault fetched for Lemond?


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

Armstrong will never fetch bottles for anyone. He might pass one over if you're right beside him, but there's no way he's going back to the car to load up and play b****. 

If he starts doing that I'd rather see him retire asap.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Fredke said:


> Do you think he'll fetch more bottles for Conti than Hinault fetched for Lemond?


If the bottle contains rat poison maybe.


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## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

CARBON110 said:


> we have never seen LA/AC ride against one another in the mountains. LA is performing as well as he has in the past so far so what makes you think he can't hang with AC? His age? Have you not had the chance to ride with older former pros/olympic riders? age means little at this level especially when you're that naturally gifted


Age means a lot at that level, not a little. If you have had the chance to ride with older former pros or Olympic riders, that has shown you that age means little to them when compared to the 99+% of other cyclists. Unfortunately for Armstrong, he is competing against peers.

Against other pros, age means a lot. The oldest Tour de France winner was 36, no? And that was in 1922 when there was a much bigger difference between the best riders and the rest of the field. These days, everyone trains hard, which means that the moment aging (and in this case, a couple years without training for races) causes a rider to start losing his advantage there will be someone else to exploit the weakness and put him on the rivet until he cracks.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

It is probable that Armstrong actually thinks that the contempt he has for this generation of riders is based on fact and he actually believes in his heart of hearts that he will win.
If this is so: then getting beaten up on this Tour will have a devastating effect on his psyche and he will need a shrink to bring him around.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

heathb said:


> Armstrong will never fetch bottles for anyone. He might pass one over if you're right beside him, but there's no way he's going back to the car to load up and play b****.
> 
> If he starts doing that I'd rather see him retire asap.


And yet, he did that during the Giro and is still riding today.


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## klkees (Jul 6, 2009)

its so funny to hear what the Lance haters have to say! The logic is non-sensical and laughable. No ONE has a bigger ego than LA....just remember that. He had excuses not to ride this tour and didnt take them. In the interviews he is acting and playing the "old guy" up so hard......he is so slick. Yes there are the amazingly talented young guys.....everywhere....but I dont think any of them have ever won one....much less seven. To me this is the most interesting tour in YEARS and I am very excited to see this unfold........and WHY hate VS for pitching armstrong and getting new viewers???? dont you want to grow the sport?? and if you hate LA then it will be all the better when he gets smoked right? LMFAO ...


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## function (Jun 20, 2008)

heathb said:


> Armstrong will never fetch bottles for anyone. He might pass one over if you're right beside him, but there's no way he's going back to the car to load up and play b****.
> 
> If he starts doing that I'd rather see him retire asap.


Nothing wrong with fetching bottles, fetching bottles on a mountain stage can take more effort than riding at the front. It's not easy work and i have deep respect for guys like Voight who will work at the front, then go back, fetch bottles then get back to the front again to set tempo. These guys aren't playing b***hes.


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## nagatahawk (Jun 14, 2007)

LA is currently ranked 3rd and with TTT coming...
Yeah I know it's too early to get excited but I'm just saying!


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