# Why Bobke and CVdV need to go



## nealrab (Aug 6, 2002)

Let's get the flame throwing into motion...Firstly, Bob Roll is still a LA tool and always will be, CVdV is another USPS tool who never came clean publicly. Neither has spoken up against Lance or what he did to other riders and innocents. For that matter, neither has Phil or Paul. But that aside, Vande Velde is completely useless as a commentator/color analyst. His "insights" are inane and shallow. He offers up nothing in the way of true insight and is simply a "pretty boy" for camera time. Shelve him instantly. He's a "no-trick" pony.
Now for the meat of the matter...How many times are the whole bevvy of announcers going to continue to skewer Sagan for not coming in first in a stage (sprint or otherwise)? Someone should point out out to the whole lot of them that Sagan may win a stage or may not, it truly doesn't matter to him or his teammates or his DS. His goal was to win the green jersey and he will do that easily by doubling the points accumulated by any other rider. He may end up with 600 points when it's all said and done. Bob Roll pounded Sagan for "disappointing" his teammates by not winning a stage, and actually stated that his guys were "turning themselves inside out by killing themselves on the front and it was his (Sagan's) job to reward them with a victory on a stage...he needs to produce a win or he's destroying his team's morale."
Bubkis needs to get a clue...every time he's interviewed Sagan asks why people think he should be frustrated by not winning a stage. He states outright that his job was to win the points classification, that's it. Can he beat Kittel or Greipel in a sprint? Uh, no. Should he be crushed if Kristoff blows past him a couple of times? Uh no. He's destroying the field for the Green, so quit emphasizing a stage win when it clearly isn't a priority. For a former rider, Roll shows little knowledge about what should be obvious to even the casual observer.


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

Al Trautwig, please save us!


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## JaeP (Mar 12, 2002)

Retro Grouch said:


> Al Trautwig, please save us!


Retro, you make me laugh! Rep for you!


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## jajichan (Jul 9, 2014)

nealrab said:


> Someone should point out out to the whole lot of them that Sagan may win a stage or may not, it truly doesn't matter to him or his teammates or his DS.


Well that's completely and emphatically incorrect.


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

Yeah... Sagan is just paid to show up and pop a wheelie at the finish to amuse the fans.


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## El Scorcho (Dec 14, 2005)

Your rant sounds more like you are a Sagan fan boi than any real dislike for Bobke or CVdV. In the 20 total minutes I have tuned into those cats this year, I can honestly say that I don't mind either of those guys. 

I disagree that Sagan and his team don't care if he wins a stage or not. While the primary objective is the Green, everybody wants to win a stage....everybody.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

El Scorcho said:


> Your rant sounds more like you are a Sagan fan boi than any real dislike for Bobke or CVdV. In the 20 total minutes I have tuned into those cats this year, I can honestly say that I don't mind either of those guys.
> 
> I disagree that Sagan and his team don't care if he wins a stage or not. While the primary objective is the Green, everybody wants to win a stage....everybody.


Friday will probably be Sagan's best and only real chance for a win.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Retro Grouch said:


> Al Trautwig, please save us!


I see your Al Trautwig and raise you a Sam Posey!


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

I summon the GHOST OF JOHN TESH


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

I'm desperately trying to remember the examples, and of course can't right now, but I thought VdV offered some good insight on several occasions. I think he has corrected the others several times and pointed out more relevant points about the action on a stage. So, I have to disagree with you about him. I won't disagree that he is not a trained announcer/color person. This takes time and you can look to numerous other American sports for athlete-turned-commentator for successful examples. I say give him another chance. 

I will agree that Sagan is saying that his goal is the green jersey. However, as others have noted, I'm pretty sure he really wants a win. I've only been watching the tour in recent years, but I would venture to say that the majority of people associate the green jersey with stage wins (no matter how incorrect this association may be).


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

THE TROUT! KIRSTEN GUM (pre AND post enhancement)!

VdV is fine. First year in the Booth. Better than the team they had last year. They need a recent American voice, and Bobbu Julich is still in the self-imposed cycling penalty box. I think they are just waiting for Horner to get off the road. Unfortunately, I think he will take a year or 5 away from cycling when he finally unlaces his shoes.

sagan doesnt care about stage wins. his team doesnt care about stage wins. hilarious. because you dont get more points for crossing the line first, nor do you get a larger cash prize to split with team. green jersey is the overall goal, but that doesnt mean he/the team doesnt want a stage win. they just cant get their act together. watching their fassa-bartolo inspired train derail the other day was sad.


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## obed (Jan 12, 2014)

To you old salts, these guys might not be saying what you think you need to hear, but for noobs like me, they are entertaining and informative. My wife and I are watching our first TDF together and what these guys have to say has been helpful to us both. If I knew more about racing than they do, like you seem to, I might not be impressed either.
Even a stone noob like me does not buy that he would like to win a stage though.


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## cbk57 (Aug 12, 2009)

I respect the enthusiasm of the casual observer that is wowed by all the coverage, but otherwise I just can't stomach 4 hours of anyone talking about the TDF when for three of those hours the most interesting thing to talk about is who is taking a "nature break." Every year someone is complaining about the commentators. There is the annual I hate Phil and Paul thread also. I watch a little hear and there but wish they would just give my an hour of highlights at 9:00 before bed time and that would be good for me. Only on a few stages is there anything meaningful to show that would take more than 1 hour.


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## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

I want John Tesh and the Outdoor Life Network back!!!

We want you back Kristen!!!


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

burgrat said:


> I see your Al Trautwig and raise you a Sam Posey!


Sam Posey? That brings back memories 

From what I recall, back in the day, Sam Posey, Bob Varsha, Brent Musberger and Adrian Karsten (R.I.P) all were conscripted to translate European pro cycling to simple terms we savage 'Mericans could somewhat understand. Back then, lots of baseball and football analogies were thrown about to help Joe Sixpack keep up with the program. 

The watershed moment occured when a dude from Austin Taxas swaggered onto the scene and showed the world true sportsmanship what his country stood for


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

brianmcg said:


> I want John Tesh and the Outdoor Life Network back!!!
> 
> We want you back Kristen!!!


It took a photo from the neck up for me to finally notice the color of her eyes.


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## cbk57 (Aug 12, 2009)

At least back then the coverage was not insane. Short to the point, in and out. 30 minutes coverage for most stages and 1 hour as I recall for mountain stages. The commentators could deliver a lot more bang for the buck when they could just talk about the key moments of the stage instead of the passing of every bottle.


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## nealrab (Aug 6, 2002)

Well, I for one am not advocating for the return of Craig Hummer, but we should be able to find some people who are better reps for cycling than those we currently have. I might be able to live with Bob Roll, CVdV et al, but for their lack of moral backbone. Maybe contract with David Millar...at least he confessed and took some degree of responsibility. I know we can't expect a Sean Kelly, but there has to be better. Maybe Vin Scully can do cycling...
And yes, wouldn't it be nice if everyone could get a stage win. Hushovd didn't really have to have a win to get green and neither does Sagan. He has already said on at least 2 occasions that he is not frustrated by losing out in a sprint finish. "I have the green jersey, why should I be frustrated?" Yes, in a perfect world he would win once, but to those in the know, C'dale and other sponsors can get more mileage out of the jersey than simply a single stage win. I believe Sagan and his team are just fine with what they've achieved in the Tour. And if Bob Roll thought about it for a millisecond, he'd agree, instead of bashing Sagan for not "upping his game" in the sprints to repay his teammates for hard work. That's just a ridiculous thing to say for someone who has enough experience to know better.
I did like Frankie Andreu too. What about Freddie Rodriguez? Not sure about any unsavory activity there, but he always sounds pretty good...


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

VdV has some work to do, but he's pretty new to all this. I didn't use to be a fan of Bobke, but he seems to have mellowed a bit and I'm liking his commentary more this year. I like the interviews with Chris Horner and wouldn't mind seeing him in the commentary box some day.


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## hfc (Jan 24, 2003)

The USA cycling community is pretty tight and I won't come down hard on anyone for not bashing Lance. I suspect Bobke and LA are still friends. 

I do recall a comment from VdV regarding nutrition in which he said he would actually gain weight in some portions of the Tour. First time I've ever heard of that and it was mentioned by someone else in another little segment. I'm willing to give VdV points for content but big downgrade on delivery. He seems like a smart guy and should improve with practice. I would also, however, like to see Horner in the booth.

Great Tour this year. Enjoy and save the anger for starving children or something like that.


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

I wonder if we could replace VdV with Fred Willard.






Dog shows and bicycle racing aren't too far apart.


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

cbk57 said:


> I respect the enthusiasm of the casual observer that is wowed by all the coverage, but otherwise I just can't stomach 4 hours of anyone talking about the TDF when for three of those hours the most interesting thing to talk about is who is taking a "nature break." Every year someone is complaining about the commentators. There is the annual I hate Phil and Paul thread also. I watch a little hear and there but wish they would just give my an hour of highlights at 9:00 before bed time and that would be good for me. Only on a few stages is there anything meaningful to show that would take more than 1 hour.


Someone packages up the last few Ks and pots it on youtube. 

Plenty of us enjoy the full 4 hours of coverage. There's more to a race than the last 1k to the line of the last climb. I enjoy the scenery and everything else that goes along with a bike race.


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

nealrab said:


> Let's get the flame throwing into motion...Firstly, Bob Roll is still a LA tool and always will be, CVdV is another USPS tool who never came clean publicly. Neither has spoken up against Lance or what he did to other riders and innocents. For that matter, neither has Phil or Paul. But that aside, Vande Velde is completely useless as a commentator/color analyst. His "insights" are inane and shallow. He offers up nothing in the way of true insight and is simply a "pretty boy" for camera time. Shelve him instantly. He's a "no-trick" pony.
> Now for the meat of the matter...How many times are the whole bevvy of announcers going to continue to skewer Sagan for not coming in first in a stage (sprint or otherwise)? Someone should point out out to the whole lot of them that Sagan may win a stage or may not, it truly doesn't matter to him or his teammates or his DS. His goal was to win the green jersey and he will do that easily by doubling the points accumulated by any other rider. He may end up with 600 points when it's all said and done. Bob Roll pounded Sagan for "disappointing" his teammates by not winning a stage, and actually stated that his guys were "turning themselves inside out by killing themselves on the front and it was his (Sagan's) job to reward them with a victory on a stage...he needs to produce a win or he's destroying his team's morale."
> Bubkis needs to get a clue...every time he's interviewed Sagan asks why people think he should be frustrated by not winning a stage. He states outright that his job was to win the points classification, that's it. Can he beat Kittel or Greipel in a sprint? Uh, no. Should he be crushed if Kristoff blows past him a couple of times? Uh no. He's destroying the field for the Green, so quit emphasizing a stage win when it clearly isn't a priority. For a former rider, Roll shows little knowledge about what should be obvious to even the casual observer.


If his only goal was the Green jersey, then Sagan and team would be fine with letting the break escape and chew up the finish points. His team chasing down the break only risks putting more of his Green jersey competition at the finish with a chance for points. I'm not re you should be the judge of race knowledge.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

nealrab said:


> He has already said on at least 2 occasions that he is not frustrated by losing out in a sprint finish. "I have the green jersey, why should I be frustrated?" Yes, in a perfect world he would win once, but to those in the know, C'dale and other sponsors can get more mileage out of the jersey than simply a single stage win. I believe Sagan and his team are just fine with what they've achieved in the Tour. And if Bob Roll thought about it for a millisecond, he'd agree, instead of bashing Sagan for not "upping his game" in the sprints to repay his teammates for hard work. That's just a ridiculous thing to say for someone who has enough experience to know better.
> I did like Frankie Andreu too. What about Freddie Rodriguez? Not sure about any unsavory activity there, but he always sounds pretty good...


what do you expect sagan to say, "the jersey is nice, but my lead-out sucks and I want a stage win, so yeah, im a bit frustrated"? it would be like tom brady saying, "what am I supposed to do? I cant throw AND catch the ball." his wife can say it, but the player cant.

and I couldn't disagree more about sponsors wanting the green jersey over a stage. there is a reason riders zip up and do whatever they can to raise their arms and show their jerseys as they cross the line. More photos get out there of the finish line and stage winning podium than the jersey podium. especially when it comes to the sprinters.

Frankie was good after a few years, but then got black-balled by LA. then, during his comeback, LA would ONLY allow Frankie to interview him after stages. interesting...

Robbie ventura was bad his first year, then got a lil better. then he swapped out the commentating/packages for advertising that was produced like packages. give VdV another year to find his voice and im sure he will be fine.


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## Rich Gibson (Jul 26, 2013)

I enjoy the whole crew as it is...for the TDF. Phil and Paul are out of their element in other races; that's when Schlanger and Gogolski are great. For the TDF you need polish and an ability to help non-cycling geeks understand what's going on. For hard core cycling fans the latter are way better. I also enjoy the other duo who are on Eurosport and cycling.tv (although they do go way off topic occasionally and giggle too much at their feeble attempts at humor). The only one I will agree with dumping was Hummer. Smarmy and that cheesy smile I couldn't stand his sad attempts to match cycling knowledge with Roll and company before each TDF stage. He even participated in the stage prediction challenge and, when he won his glee was unbearable. You could see Roll and P&P roll their eyes in disgust.

Rich


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## nealrab (Aug 6, 2002)

Chris H is great, maybe next year or beyond...good choice there. Sagan has no real lead out train because he's no pure sprinter. He freelances like Robbie did. They don't need a lead out to get points or win a sprint. C'dale does not have or need a lead out train currently because Cipollini is no longer on the team. And Sagan's team isn't the only one chasing down breaks. Giant, Lotto, Katusha, FDJ, Astana, even Europcar, all have to chase. If you want a jersey you have to chase. Chasing isn't always just about finishing first in that stage. It's about retaining a jersey, yellow, green, mountains or white. Getting points is about finishing in the best position, not about winning stages. Even the best don't win green by simply coming in first (i.e. Kittel). It's seconds, thirds, fifths, eighths that count in the cumulative stat column. That's how you win green.
Sagan wins plenty in many other races through the year for his sponsors...Green is the only goal in the Tour since there are always too many pure sprinters who can beat him repeatedly. He might, and I say might, win a transition stage if things fall exactly right, but that's not the team's primary focus. What I'm saying is not going to be disputed by anyone who knows this sport...and I will reiterate again, Bob Roll should know exactly what I am saying and what Sagan himself is saying. If you put yourself out there as an expert, then act like one and avoid ridiculous stuff like jumping on the guy who does his job day in, day out, gets a big time jersey and keeps it for 3 weeks with an unassailable lead. Don't nitpick his effort by claiming he's short-changing his teammates by not finishing first in races that feature Greipel, Kittel, Kristoff, Renshaw, Demare (though not 100%), Degenkolb (though not 100%), Cavendish (though only briefly)...did any any them win a green jersey (exclude Cav for now)? Won't this be Sagan's third in a row?? 
3 in a row!!...and people are arguing about what's important to C'dale and the team? Please. Sagan will have plenty of photo ops on the jersey podium along with Nibali, Rodriguez(maybe) and Pinot(maybe). And C'dale will be ecstatic. Sagan can win his sprints in California, Colorado or any other single day race, but here it's about only one thing. Green. My argument is about the Tour only...winning a stage is coveted by all, but only a few do it. I am sure Sagan would consider it icing on the key lime pie, but he'd rather have the jersey than a stage win, guaranteed, no questions asked. 
BTW, I'm just making a point here, I'm not angry to the exclusion of worrying about starving children or missing girls in Nigeria. Stay on point here. 
And yes, I realize Bob and Lance are still friends, but they could still be friends even if Bob, or Phil, or Paul came out and said the right things about what was done for all those years at USPS/Discovery instead of sweeping it under the rug and never going public on air with the truth about those Armstrong-led teams. Lance would understand what those public figures have to do, and why they have to do it...just like the LiveStrong folks.


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