# rear wheel sits to the left



## speed metal (Feb 8, 2007)

I have a Specialized Tarmac SL noticed the rear wheel sets closer to the left chainstay (near the BB) than the right chainstay. I've got 2 sets of wheels and both set toward the left. Could this be caused by the dropout being worn or damaged? This frame was a warranty replacement. Is warranty replacements frame 2nds or top quality?


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## rm -rf (Feb 27, 2006)

I had to carefully file the inside curve of the aluminum dropout on my Orbea. I used a convex jeweler file, but some fine sandpaper wrapped around a pencil or dowel would work.

Go slowly, and take off a very, very small amount of material. A tiny adjustment at the dropout will move the wheel quite far.


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## rbart4506 (Aug 4, 2004)

Flip the wheel around first and clamp it in...

If it's still closer on the left then there is an alignment issue...If it's now closer to the right, then the dish is out on your wheel...

I would not screw around with your frame...If alignment is out take it back to the dealer...


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

rbart4506 said:


> Flip the wheel around first and clamp it in...
> 
> If it's still closer on the left then there is an alignment issue...If it's now closer to the right, then the dish is out on your wheel...
> 
> I would not screw around with your frame...If alignment is out take it back to the dealer...


+1. I agree that the OP should not alter the frame in any way.

OP: Bring the frameset back to the LBS and ask that alignment be checked.


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## rm -rf (Feb 27, 2006)

Yeah, you both are right. My post is for bikes out of warranty.


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## speed metal (Feb 8, 2007)

Checked the dropouts out a little closer. I set the wheel in without clamping it down there seemed to be more room (back and forth movement) in the drive side dropout verses the non-drive side. You can set the wheel in the dropouts, align it straight and clamp it down, but after a ride it is leaning left.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

speed metal said:


> Checked the dropouts out a little closer. I set the wheel in without clamping it down there seemed to be more room (back and forth movement) in the drive side dropout verses the non-drive side. *You can set the wheel in the dropouts, align it straight and clamp it down, but after a ride it is leaning left.*


The bolded statement leads me to think the problem might be skewer related. I always use the internal cam designs (Shimano/ Campy), because the ones that come with many boutique wheels don't grip the dropouts very well, and the result is similar to what you mention.


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## speed metal (Feb 8, 2007)

Good point. It's a Mavic wheel, but I have been using a older Specialized skewer. I'll try a different skewer and report back.


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## speed metal (Feb 8, 2007)

PJ352, it was the skewer. The part with the lever on it was wore smooth where it makes contact with the frame. I got another skewer went on a 40 mile ride and the wheel stayed in place. The Mavic skewer got damaged so I threw it away earlier this year and used a old Specialized mountain bike skewer.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

speed metal said:


> PJ352, it was the skewer. The part with the lever on it was wore smooth where it makes contact with the frame. I got another skewer went on a 40 mile ride and the wheel stayed in place. The Mavic skewer got damaged so I threw it away earlier this year and used a old Specialized mountain bike skewer.


Yeah, sometimes the tricky part is in the diagnoses, so I'm glad you got this resolved.

I've also seen where skewers slipped because the hub axle went beyond the outer edge of the dropout, so clamping only pressed the skewer into the axle rather than the dropout.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

deleted.. double post.


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## speed metal (Feb 8, 2007)

But wait............... Took the rear wheel off today and a aluminum piece fell out of the inside of the dropout.


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## Rugergundog (Apr 2, 2011)

ouch not good 

I would be on the fly to the dealer for this one. Be firm when dealing with Specialized!


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Did that really fall off the bike's drop-outs, or was it somehow attached to the replacement skewer that you used? I thought the drop-outs were solid alloy, so I don't see how a washer thickness piece can just fall off. Is there any visible damage or missing piece on the bike?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I agree with ukbloke. I have two Tarmacs and neither have loose or bonded 'spacers' at the dropouts. They're one piece.

Compare both dropouts and if they're the same (as I suspect they will be) the spacer wasn't from the frame.


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## speed metal (Feb 8, 2007)

It fell out of the drive-side dropout. I never knew it was there either. I took a rag and polished clean. It's a 2007(I think) Quick Step edition.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Maybe you do have a slight frame alignment issue, and someone had addressed it by adding a shim?


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## speed metal (Feb 8, 2007)

If that's the case they aligned both sides. LOL. It looks they are put there so when the wheel is clamped down it won't damage the carbon.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Interesting - perhaps the slipping skewer compromised its bond. I guess you can just stick it back on.


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## Rugergundog (Apr 2, 2011)

The 2012 Tarmac SL4 is assembled with carbon drop-outs and little aluminum parts like you have shown..........but i don't know of them doing that back in 2007.

I would be heading to the LBS on this one.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Since this is pretty much boiling down to a guessing game, I suggest going to the source and submitting a question to Specialized customer support.

If you do so, include all pertinent data, otherwise their response is likely to be based only on what you tell them.

FWIW, the slipping skewer issue seems to be resolved.


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## speed metal (Feb 8, 2007)

Hope to be heading to my LBS (80 miles away) today. I found something else interesting. The drive side dropout opening is slightly larger than the opening of the dérailleur hanger. I checked other bikes I have and the dropout opening and dérailleur opening match up. I hope the shop has a micrometer to measure both rear dropouts.


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## speed metal (Feb 8, 2007)

Update on this issue: The shop bonded the insert back in and told me to try a different skewer. I bought a Shimano skewer as instructed by the shop. I clamped the wheel in there real tight, this seemed to work for about 2 months. Then on the last few rides I noticed the wheel sitting crooked again. I took the wheel out and the aluminum insert fell out again.
I took to the shop today the Mechanic put a micrometer to the dropouts. The drive-side was 1mm larger. He took pictures of it and e-mailed them to their warranty rep. With in an hour the rep. contacted the mechanic and said they would replace the frame. I believe he said the replacement frame would be the same year model, an 07. Seems strange that they still had an 07. Anyway I'm happy with how it turned out.


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## swimbiketag (Nov 28, 2009)

@speedmetal - Thanks for posting your follow up. I have a S-Works SL3 Tarmac ('11) and have noticed that my rear wheel slips when clamping down on the skewer - sometimes it sits fine, other times it is off and forces the rim to slide against the brake pad. I changed the skewer and it seems to be better, but I noticed the silver (aluminum, I would think) inside & outside of the dropouts - I can't tell if they are inserts or if the entire dropout is metal. 

While I believe the skewer rectified the problem, your thread has given me reason to be more cognizant of how the rear wheel sits in the frame. I have not had it shift after riding, though...


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

speed metal said:


> Update on this issue: The shop bonded the insert back in and told me to try a different skewer. I bought a Shimano skewer as instructed by the shop. I clamped the wheel in there real tight, this seemed to work for about 2 months. Then on the last few rides I noticed the wheel sitting crooked again. I took the wheel out and the aluminum insert fell out again.
> I took to the shop today the Mechanic put a micrometer to the dropouts. The drive-side was 1mm larger. He took pictures of it and e-mailed them to their warranty rep. With in an hour the rep. contacted the mechanic and said they would replace the frame. * I believe he said the replacement frame would be the same year model, an 07. Seems strange that they still had an 07. Anyway I'm happy with how it turned out*.


I tend to agree, but the bottom line is you're getting a new frame, so it turned out ok.

If they're just replacing the frame, when it arrives, make sure your fork is a decent color match (if you care, that is...).


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## speed metal (Feb 8, 2007)

They are sending a new fork also. I'm 99.3% sure they are:idea: They kept frame and fork. If they don't.......... sandpaper and a rattle can of black paint will take care of the fork.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

speed metal said:


> ..... sandpaper and a rattle can of black paint will take care of the fork.


lol... :thumbsup:


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

I have to say Speed Metal is handling this warranty thing very cooly! If it were me, I'd probably be flipping and cursing out along time ago!

It does seem odd Spesh would still have a new old-stock 2007 frame though. I guess they either made some extra frames, or they refurb!


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## purdyd (Jun 18, 2010)

swimbiketag said:


> @speedmetal - Thanks for posting your follow up. I have a S-Works SL3 Tarmac ('11) and have noticed that my rear wheel slips when clamping down on the skewer - sometimes it sits fine, other times it is off and forces the rim to slide against the brake pad. I changed the skewer and it seems to be better, but I noticed the silver (aluminum, I would think) inside & outside of the dropouts - I can't tell if they are inserts or if the entire dropout is metal.
> 
> While I believe the skewer rectified the problem, your thread has given me reason to be more cognizant of how the rear wheel sits in the frame. I have not had it shift after riding, though...


The sl3 sworks has a very thin dropout on the non drive side and depending on the wheel set, you may have a slight amount of the axle protruding

If you remove the spring on the skewer on that side that maybe enough or something like the dura ace skewer which is more concave on the mating surface should work


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## speed metal (Feb 8, 2007)

AND A YEAR LATER.........guess what? My replacement frame is doing the same thing. This time the metal insert on the drive side split/cracked and rear wheel is sitting to the left again.:mad2: 
Why is this happening? Frame defect, riding with loose quick release or Maybe the axle on the rear wheel defective? I hate to take it back to dealer in a way. 3rd frame took back for warrenty. I bought an 05 E5 in 2007 paint chipped, they replaced it with an 07 Tarmac SL. Then had issue with rear dropout, so that frame was replaced with my current frame, another 07 Tarmac SL.
If specialized was to say, "Hey we replaced your frame 2 times, no more." I wouldn't blame them. I just want a fair judgement on it. I just wonder am I doing something to cause this?
If there's any Specialized personal on this forum your input would be appreciated.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

speed metal said:


> AND A YEAR LATER.........guess what? My replacement frame is doing the same thing. This time *the metal insert on the drive side split/cracked and rear wheel is sitting to the left again.*:mad2:
> Why is this happening? Frame defect, riding with loose quick release or Maybe the axle on the rear wheel defective? *I hate to take it back to dealer in a way.* 3rd frame took back for warrenty. I bought an 05 E5 in 2007 paint chipped, they replaced it with an 07 Tarmac SL. Then had issue with rear dropout, so that frame was replaced with my current frame, another 07 Tarmac SL.
> If specialized was to say, "Hey we replaced your frame 2 times, no more." I wouldn't blame them. I just want a fair judgement on it. I just wonder am I doing something to cause this?
> If there's any Specialized personal on this forum your input would be appreciated.


I don't think you should feel bad about taking this frame back to the dealer at all. It's nothing more than the same problem occurring on another (similar) frame. 

I'd even go a step further and ask your LBS to relay on to the rep that you won't accept a 'like frame' replacement. - meaning, you want a (newer) frame of different design (sans insert).

Lastly, IIRC you replaced your skewers with Shimano's. Never heard of them damaging frames.


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## Doc_D (Mar 16, 2006)

How tight do you tighten your skewers?


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## speed metal (Feb 8, 2007)

Tighten them down as tight as they should be, maybe a little more. 
I'm 205 lbs, standing going up a steep hill or sprinting there's a lot of stress on the rear wheel so I tighten it tight. BUT...I have rode 1 or 2 times and noticed the rear wheel being loose and had to tightening the skewer. Did the wheel being loose cause the dropout damage or a defect in the dropout allow the rear wheel to move slightly in the drive-side dropout?
I have a mountain bike and a CX bike both AL I haven't had this problem with them or another bike I've owned. 
This brings me to this question......Both have been 07 Tarmac SL frames and both warranty replacements. Could it be these frames have been "Seconds" due to a design flaw and Specialized was holding them for that reason? I thought it was odd, plus the manager of the shop thought it was strange that Spec would still have a 2007 frame ( in January 12).


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

speed metal said:


> I have a mountain bike and a CX bike both AL I haven't had this problem with them or another bike I've owned.


As I was reading your post, this was my thought. It's not common for a 205 lb. rider to have such problems, but it is a possibility when something isn't right with the dropout design. Jamis had a similar situation awhile back, so not unheard of. 

At this point, I'd call it a frame issue, not a hub/ skewer issue - and Spec must agree, thus the warranty replacement.



speed metal said:


> This brings me to this question......Both have been 07 Tarmac SL frames and both warranty replacements. *Could it be these frames have been "Seconds" due to a design flaw* and Specialized was holding them for that reason? I thought it was odd, plus the manager of the shop thought it was strange that Spec would still have a 2007 frame ( in January 12).


I don't know that I'd call the frames 'seconds', but this could well be a known problem. A good reason to ask your LBS to relay on that another '07 Tarmac isn't an acceptable solution.


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## speed metal (Feb 8, 2007)

View attachment 277121


Here's a picture of what's going on.
I sent several Pictures to the dealer and they are sending them to their Warranty guy.


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## speed metal (Feb 8, 2007)

this may work better.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

speed metal said:


> this may work better.


Whoa.. that looks nasty. I would not ride that bike 'as is'. I could be mistaken, but the center section of the dropout looks like it's cracked. The entire assembly looks chewed up, probably from the play at the axle/ dropout interface.


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## speed metal (Feb 8, 2007)

I checked it closely the aluminum insert is all that's cracked the carbon is OK. I hope to find something out tomorrow. I have done a google search on carbon fiber dropout damage not really came up with much on incidence like this.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

speed metal said:


> I checked it closely the aluminum insert is all that's cracked the carbon is OK. I hope to find something out tomorrow. I have done a google search on carbon fiber dropout damage not really came up with much on incidence like this.


Yes, I was referring to the alu insert. I saw in an earlier post you made mention of the crack.

I'd pursue the warranty claim, but check that your axles aren't protruding past the outer edges of the dropouts. If they are, when you tighten down the skewer you're essentially tightening against the axle, not the dropout. This would lead to left/ right movement (over time) 'stretching' the dropout.


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