# can you increase your mph with better wheels?



## osteomark (Jun 15, 2011)

Just throwing out a question on whether or not its worth getting new wheels.
I'm plateauing at 18-19mi/hr on a 17mi solo ride and it feels like I can not sustain a glide when not pedaling. I'm @ 100-110psi. They are standard Bontrager wheels on a Trek 1.2.
Or does mph improve very slowly?
I can pedal at a 21mph avg on flats.
Been cycling for 5 months so I'm maybe asking for too much too early. Had the Trek for 1 month.
Thanks.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

osteomark said:


> Just throwing out a question on whether or not its worth getting new wheels.


We can quantify the speed increase from a change in wheels (generally around 0.1-0.4) mph. Whether the cost is worth it or not depends on your goals and assets. Please post a copy of your last three tax returns.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

So before you get flamed for your question Im going to try and answer it. The answer is that manufactures want you to think so... The real improvements that aero wheels provide you in terms of wattage savings are very low. Great wheel test 2008 – Part 1 – Aerodynamics | Roues Artisanales 

You will not see any noticeable improvement in your average speed between an aero and box section rim.

Do not fret though!! You will however get much faster as time goes by no matter what wheels your on because of how long you've been riding! Since you have only been on the bike for 5 months, in the next few years you will see large improvements in your fitness, ability to pace, and bike handling. These more than any parts upgrades will make you better/faster and cycling more enjoyable. 

Being a wheel vendor I can tell you that yes an aero wheel is "faster" than a non-aero one. However I would attest that even the top pros would have trouble telling the difference in a "blind" test. My advice to you, get something proven, durable, and if you want to treat yourself even something nice. Do not however buy a set of high dollar wheel until you've been in the game a bit longer and you know what you want.

Remember that its not the tools that are good, its the surgeon


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

There is nothing you can buy for the bike that will provide a noticeable or measurable speed increase. We did this topic last week and you can see the answers (mine included) here - 

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/38mm-50mm-58mm-85mm-rims-260503.html

Here too -

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/aero-wheels-benefits-258210.html

Riding more will provide your biggest boost by far but it might take years to reach your potential. Read up on simple training programs and ride often - but no more than you can truly recover from.


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## mimason (Oct 7, 2006)

At your riding experience level I would recommend against it at this time. I recall being in your boat and wanting to constantly upgrade. In reality I was too inexperienced to appreciate the incremental differences. It's the motor. Start buying new stuff when you must have matching kits and shave your legs. You may find at that time you have outgrown the 1.2 . Welcome to the addiction.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

Mike T. said:


> There is nothing you can buy for the bike that will provide a noticeable or measurable speed increase. We did this topic last week and you can see the answers (mine included) here ....


And the measureable part is as false now as it was then. See the above referenced article for the data.

Or consider a simple example. Do you believe someone will ride as fast on a 50 lb bike as a 20 lb one? If so, I'd say you are in the minority. If not, then you have to agree that equipment can affect speed and the only question becomes by how much.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

asgelle said:


> Do you believe someone will ride as fast on a 50 lb bike as a 20 lb one? If so, I'd say you are in the minority. If not, then you have to agree that equipment can affect speed and the only question becomes by how much.


Uhhh ok! Most of us are wise enough not to try to compare 50lb bike expectations with 20lb bike expectations. But most of us will admit that throwing $10,000 at that bike, or any bike, (a set of Lightweight Obermayer tubulars and a kit of Di2) will not be solely responsible for a (true average) speed boost from 17mph to even 20mph.


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## osteomark (Jun 15, 2011)

Thanks for the input. No new wheels then. So, I guess I can not rush the results. I like cycling. No knee pain like running. I'll just keep at it. I've been told to put aside the speedo for a few months and just ride. I guess at this point 20mph just seems to be an illusive thing. Maybe someday I'll say wish I could avg 23mph because I've been stuck at 22mph for a while. Don't know.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

osteomark said:


> Thanks for the input. No new wheels then. So, I guess I can not rush the results. I like cycling. No knee pain like running. I'll just keep at it. I've been told to put aside the speedo for a few months and just ride. I guess at this point 20mph just seems to be an illusive thing. Maybe someday I'll say wish I could avg 23mph because I've been stuck at 22mph for a while. Don't know.


A true 20mph average speed (door-to-door; not what you see mostly on the computer at mid-ride) takes a whole load of dedicated riding to achieve. I averaged 23mph over a hardish 5 miles interval last week (mid ride) but the average speed for the whole ride (getting in & out of town too) was 17.5mph. Most pro racers will rarely average a true 23mph on a training ride. Just be wary of unreasonable expectations. Ride with others and you'll soon find out if you're fast or slow.


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## mimason (Oct 7, 2006)

It literally takes years to get "bike fit". Enjoy your progress and endorphin rush post ride after a hard workout.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

*Ron Paul Vs Ralph Nader, the two extremes*



Mike T. said:


> Most of us are wise enough not to try to compare 50lb bike expectations with 20lb bike expectations.


Most of us are also wise enough not to make purely definitive statements about there being no measurable differences in terms of the aero advantage of a wheelset. Granted there is a lot of hype. However when it comes to aero wheels making statements there is "no difference" is silly because as we can see by the VERY methodical third party test that I posted previously there are differences in wheels in terms of their aerodynamic properties. Any aeronautical engineer would be willing to explain to a newb like you or myself that even at low speeds wind resistance still can be measured and manipulated.

I get tired of this one side or the other argument. 
Here are the facts that any logical person will agree with me on.

Are there differences? Yes
Are they noticeable? Probably not
Are they measurable? Yes because they have been

If anyone disagrees with those three true statements, especially the last one, then do what Adrian did and rent a wind tunnel, put wheels in it, and report the findings. Im tired of reading posts that are parties arguing extreme talking points that are just plain wrong.


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## TimV (Mar 20, 2007)

osteomark said:


> I've been told to put aside the speedo for a few months and just ride.


This is good advice. Cycling shorts will be far more comfortable.


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## Rhymenocerus (Jul 17, 2010)

Once you start riding at 25+mph then you may see improvements.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

Average speed gains are small.

Top speed improvements are not as small, but can mean the difference between a sprint win, bridging a gap or similar. The testing has be done enough to demonstrate that the watt savings are there and they are significant (see above link).

I won't give up my aero wheels, but there are some rides I do that I must eek out every last bit of speed I can get. I already ride a boat load and I weigh 155lbs.

5 months in, just ride and enjoy. Learn what kind of rider you are/want to be. It takes a while. 

-Eric


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Actual numbers*



asgelle said:


> We can quantify the speed increase from a change in wheels (generally around 0.1-0.4) mph. Whether the cost is worth it or not depends on your goals and assets. Please post a copy of your last three tax returns.


Just to be sure the OP is not confused by the humor about the tax returns, these numbers are correct. At 25 mph, the fastest set of wheels available will be 0.4 mph faster than 32 spoke box section rim wheels. At 20 mph, that number is 0.3 mph. etc.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

osteomark said:


> Just throwing out a question on whether or not its worth getting new wheels.
> I'm plateauing at 18-19mi/hr on a 17mi solo ride and it feels like I can not sustain a glide when not pedaling. I'm @ 100-110psi. They are standard Bontrager wheels on a Trek 1.2.
> Or does mph improve very slowly?
> I can pedal at a 21mph avg on flats.
> ...


Without getting into the issue of the wheels (already covered anyway,) you'll see a pretty significant improvement in your averages if you don't stop pedaling.


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## CrimeWave (Nov 7, 2010)

ceramic wheels bearings. I'm a believer. Have a set of Fulcrum Racing Speeds and the difference can be felt between my I30's with standard enduros and the ceramic CULT bearings. They spin for friggin' ever! Noticeably less drag when coasting. 

my .02


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## QQUIKM3 (Apr 20, 2008)

*Well said. .*



Zen Cyclery said:


> If anyone disagrees with those three true statements, especially the last one, then do what Adrian did and rent a wind tunnel, put wheels in it, and report the findings. Im tired of reading posts that are parties arguing extreme talking points that are just plain wrong.


Some people just don't have a clue about what analytical methods are, or ignore them because they wish to believe there is some voodoo in wheel design to make them faster; We know it will not.


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## QQUIKM3 (Apr 20, 2008)

*Exactly. .*



Kerry Irons said:


> At 25 mph, the fastest set of wheels available will be 0.4 mph faster than 32 spoke box section rim wheels. At 20 mph, that number is 0.3 mph. etc.


. . About the same amount of error in the speedometer measurements for a zero gain.


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

osteomark said:


> Just throwing out a question on whether or not its worth getting new wheels.
> I'm plateauing at 18-19mi/hr on a 17mi solo ride and it feels like I can not sustain a glide when not pedaling. I'm @ 100-110psi. They are standard Bontrager wheels on a Trek 1.2.
> Or does mph improve very slowly?
> I can pedal at a 21mph avg on flats.
> ...


You shouldn't think too much into average speed. A true measure would be watts because average speed is so much a function of terrain, wind, etc.

However, no one has mentioned tyres yet. I am not saying a pair of new tyres will make you greatly faster but often the tyres on a mid range stock bike could be swapped for better ones.

What tyres are you on?


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

I don't believe the OP averages 21mph on the flats. He obviously doesn't know what AVERAGE means. Our training "races" around here average around 22 to 23 mph and those are very fast rides where if you look down at your computer you are usually riding in the 25 to 26mph range. But averages being what they are, the slow periods near stop lights and corners can make a huge impact on your speed.


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## waterobert (Nov 24, 2009)

You will improve your speed just by riding a lot in next 1-2 years. New and better wheels will make a difference, however it will be very small. You need to grow stronger legs and that will cost you nothing, just keep on riding and you will get faster.


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## Wines of WA (Jan 10, 2005)

These sorts of questions are asked on cycling forums daily, if not hourly. One observation I'd like to make here is that the questions (and responses) seem to always focus narrowly on one piece of equipment. Sometimes the "aero improvement shortcut" question is asked about wheels, other times frames, hair shaving, flappy clothing, bike position, exposed cables etc. The answers to these narrow single-factor questions invariably point out that performance benefits of that one single component or other aspect of cycling are negligible. 

But if you're serious about speed gains, and you've already tapped your body's power endurance potential to the maximum, another appraoch is to squeeze substantial improvement out of the SUM of all these single tweaks. In other words, take a holistic approach to the problem and solve many single aspects of that problem at once to gain larger speed benefits. 

If you get aero wheels, an aero frame with more hidden cables, your clothes are tight, you have a low body position, and a dozen or so other improvements, the SUM of those improvements might be (just an off the cuff guess) around 2mph over the course of a one-hour full-on time trial effort. That is significant, but you have to be dedicated and deep-walleted to pull it off.


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

If you truly want to get faster, do intervals. 30 seconds of pushing as hard as you can, then 90 to 120 seconds of an easy pace. Do this 4 to 7 times for a workout. You'll see your long rides getting faster. 
Other things that can help raise your speed: lowering your tire pressure. Many cyclists inflate the tires to where they don't conform to the road well, causing increased rolling resistance. If you're under 190lbs and running 23's, try going to 90 or 95psi. But, since you said you run around 100, then the difference will probably not be noticeable over long distances.
A pro fitting, if not done already, will yield the biggest instant improvement. I gained over 1mph on my average speeds. They used to be mid 15's to upper 16's, now they're mid 16's to low 18's (calculated by cycle computer start to finish)


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Or not*



CrimeWave said:


> ceramic wheels bearings. I'm a believer. Have a set of Fulcrum Racing Speeds and the difference can be felt between my I30's with standard enduros and the ceramic CULT bearings. They spin for friggin' ever! Noticeably less drag when coasting.


There is nothing magic about ceramics, and they are no faster than steel bearings of equivalent specification. Bearing losses with decent wheels, properly lubed are virtually zero to begin with. To suggest that you can coast noticeably farther/faster with ceramics needs to be backed up with some serious data. Your Fulcrum wheels may well be better rolling than your other wheels, but it is not due to the ceramic bearings.


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

My goal is usually not to ride faster, but just simply enjoy riding.
Sometimes I ride as hard as I can, other times very easy.
I love to climb very steep hills and could care less how fast I am on a flat or overall speed on a course.


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## rm -rf (Feb 27, 2006)

CrimeWave said:


> ceramic wheels bearings. I'm a believer. Have a set of Fulcrum Racing Speeds and the difference can be felt between my I30's with standard enduros and the ceramic CULT bearings. They spin for friggin' ever! Noticeably less drag when coasting.
> 
> my .02


I have some 30mm aluminum Kinlin rims with White Industries hubs using standard steel cartridge bearings, about 1550 grams for the set.

On the repair stand, I spun the front wheel, using a sharp pull, but not trying for the maximum speed. It took 7 minutes to stop spinning, and then 4 more minutes to finish oscillating back and forth. And some of this very small wheel drag is from air resistance when it's spinning fast.

That pull is maybe 30 or 40 watts for a quarter of a second, to get 7 minutes of spin. That's very low drag already.


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## silkroad (Jul 8, 2011)

nightfend said:


> I don't believe the OP averages 21mph on the flats. He obviously doesn't know what AVERAGE means. Our training "races" around here average around 22 to 23 mph and those are very fast rides where if you look down at your computer you are usually riding in the 25 to 26mph range. But averages being what they are, the slow periods near stop lights and corners can make a huge impact on your speed.


everyone is faster on teh internetz


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## CrimeWave (Nov 7, 2010)

You guys are probably right, it's more of a "feeling" rather than hard facts. Have you tried them? What were your experiences with ceramics?

...and while I generally don't believe this sort of thing (due to test engineers "spinning" the truth, so to speak, or to falsified data or unfair conditions), here is a snipit from Campy:


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

"Average" is meaningless without reference to a specific period of time or distance.

I think most of us can average 21 mph on the flats for some period of time. Maybe a relatively short one, maybe a longer one. It's when the period of time includes the whole ride, with all the stop signs, traffic signals and climbs that that entails that 21 mph becomes difficult. Or, just a longer period of time than the person can sustain whatever power it takes to push air at 21 mph.


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## osteomark (Jun 15, 2011)

What I meant by averaging on the flats is for a flat 2 mile period I was atleast 21mph and not below it. I forgot about how slow I had to go to turn onto other roads and to fully turn around in the road to return home etc.. I guess I just should keep riding and see how I'm doing in a year. Thanks everyone. I'll pass on the new wheels for now.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

QQUIKM3 said:


> . . About the same amount of error in the speedometer measurements for a zero gain.


the time saved over 100miles is easily measured though.


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## QQUIKM3 (Apr 20, 2008)

*Yea, sure it is. .*




den bakker said:


> the time saved over 100miles is easily measured though.


And I'm sure you're doing these "100" many times a week,:thumbsup:


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

QQUIKM3 said:


> And I'm sure you're doing these "100" many times a week,:thumbsup:


 without any relevance to your post I replied to. 
Is this where I throw in a few emoticons for good measure?


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

osteomark said:


> What I meant by averaging on the flats is for a flat 2 mile period I was atleast 21mph and not below it. I forgot about how slow I had to go to turn onto other roads and to fully turn around in the road to return home etc.. I guess I just should keep riding and see how I'm doing in a year. Thanks everyone. I'll pass on the new wheels for now.


I'm not super-serious about road riding, but I've been collecting little time trials. They're not bad for gauging fitness. Not brilliant, either - it's surprisingly hard to test for someone without a lot of equipment. If this two miles is quite repeatable, it's a good time to keep track of. You should see it work its way down on its own. Maybe not a ton in terms of seconds - there are only 360 seconds in six minutes, and you're already taking fewer than that - but I bet if you do speed work, you can get a fair amount faster on this kind of thing.

A loop that takes you about an hour, with light to no traffic and minimal stop signs and traffic signals, is another really good bench mark. There's a comment floating around that when a rider can average 20 mph for a full hour, he's ready to go racing. I'm more in the "pin a number on and see what happens" school, but I'm a mountain biker. We don't have a peloton to get dropped from, and when Fall rolls around and it's time for 'cross, there's always someone less prepared.


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## AM999 (Jan 22, 2007)

osteomark said:


> Just throwing out a question on whether or not its worth getting new wheels.
> I'm plateauing at 18-19mi/hr on a 17mi solo ride and it feels like I can not sustain a glide when not pedaling. I'm @ 100-110psi. They are standard Bontrager wheels on a Trek 1.2.
> Or does mph improve very slowly?
> I can pedal at a 21mph avg on flats.
> ...


Aero wheels and easy rolling tires/tubes will increase your average speed but not by any huge amount. It only makes sense to invest if you are racing against the clock or would like some more eye candy on your bike. For a relatively low cost pick up some Bonty RXL Pro clinchers and latex tubes. You will be slightly faster but it will be difficult to measure. Competitive time trialers will invest to realize improvements measured in seconds over ~ 40 km. There are many examples of podium places separated by differences of less than one second.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

In terms of aero.. we always talk about climbing speed, or average speed over flats..

But what about descents? 30, 40mph long downhills? Aero benefits should increase non-linearly with speed. Anyone have wheel figures for high speed descents?


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

TomH said:


> In terms of aero.. we always talk about climbing speed, or average speed over flats..
> 
> But what about descents? 30, 40mph long downhills? Aero benefits should increase non-linearly with speed. Anyone have wheel figures for high speed descents?


I would like to see those figures for

a) aero wheels featuring a 21 or 21 mm wide front tyre

b) aero wheels featuring a 23 mm wide front tyre

c) aero wheels featuring a 24 or 25 mm wide front tyre

and the same exercise for a non aero wheel (e.g. Mavic Ksyrium Elite, Fulcrum Racing 3 etc...)

There must be a tyre width threshold where even the best aero wheel at 40 and 50 kmh isn't aero anymore due to the choice of front tyres.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

Mike T. said:


> A true 20mph average speed (door-to-door; not what you see mostly on the computer at mid-ride) takes a whole load of dedicated riding to achieve. I averaged 23mph over a hardish 5 miles interval last week (mid ride) but the average speed for the whole ride (getting in & out of town too) was 17.5mph. Most pro racers will rarely average a true 23mph on a training ride. Just be wary of unreasonable expectations. Ride with others and you'll soon find out if you're fast or slow.


agreed, does one count warm up time either? I sure don't want do 25 mph right as I'm leaving the house. My lungs will hate me for 30 min or so. I spin up at 15 or so. It's nice and flat and all, but I know I need the warm up to ride well. 

Oh, and do these 20+ mph avg spd riders use total time or ride time on their computer? Taking 10 off every 15 miles to regroup sure can do wonders for keeping that moving avg speed up.

Since people measure different, it's hard to tell really what someone is at. I road with someone who said they do 16-18 which is about what I do for 40 miles. I pulled most of the way and he even dropped off the back a few times. Let's not even start on how long it was that I waited at the top of a long climb.

So, OP, there is no magic thing you can buy. It's the engine, not the bike, despite what "the rules" say. 

OK, well there are 2 gadgets and 1 service that you can get that could help, but they don't work fast.

1. a trainer ($200-500)
2. a power meter ($1000-3000)

the service? A coach or training plan.


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## Zeke8762 (Sep 15, 2011)

Maybe ones that are smoother and can hold a higher PSI?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

ziscwg said:


> agreed, does one count warm up time either?


I do. My averages are driveway & back to the driveway again, in & out of the city and including warmup & cooldown. My averages would be over 1mph faster if I reset the computer when I was warmed up and 5 miles outside the city. I'm an average speed junkie (and have been for 5 decades) so I have stacks of logged data in a pile of training diaries to back it up - and I can tell what bikes and fancy bike parts make any noticeable difference (answer - none so far). The biggest (and really only) change factor has been age.


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## AM999 (Jan 22, 2007)

dracula said:


> I would like to see those figures for
> 
> a) aero wheels featuring a 21 or 21 mm wide front tyre
> 
> ...


If you are interested in that type of data you'll have to pay for some time in the LSWT or equivalent. I've seen some data but it is proprietary. The wheel manufacturer's data typically isn't very transparent with respect to the tire used for the testing of their own and competitor's wheels. All 21 and 23 tires are not created equally in terms of both aero performance and rolling resistance. IMO point "c" is not worth testing, i.e. the combination will be slow.


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## AM999 (Jan 22, 2007)

TomH said:


> In terms of aero.. we always talk about climbing speed, or average speed over flats..
> 
> But what about descents? 30, 40mph long downhills? Aero benefits should increase non-linearly with speed. Anyone have wheel figures for high speed descents?


You can estimate the effect by mulitplying the power at the know speed by the cube of the ratio of the desired speed to known speed, i.e. the wattage demand at 40 mph will be ~ 2.4 [(4/3)**3] X the wattage demand at 30 mph. A better approximation of the total effect taking into account that rolling resistance will also increase with speed but linearly is to use an exponent of 3.3 instead of 3.

Edit - correct exponent to account for increased rolling resistance.


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## beaverfever (Jul 7, 2007)

osteomark said:


> Thanks for the input. No new wheels then. So, I guess I can not rush the results. ... I guess at this point 20mph just seems to be an illusive thing. Maybe someday I'll say wish I could avg 23mph because I've been stuck at 22mph for a while. Don't know.


I agree – just keep riding. There is no need to worry about upgrades for a long time, and don't worry about equations, math, cubes and ratios. Five months is just a start. Keep going – if you really want speed, you'll be motivated to put in the effort for it, then it will come – from your legs.


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## mimason (Oct 7, 2006)

Why don't you try setting lap times for your rides? You can then determine door to door averages or factor out warm up and cool down for your circuit.

Yesterday I rode 60 and averaged 22.5 and while that does not sound like a big deal, if I carve out the front end and back end I ended up between 24-25mph for 45 miles with stop lights. It was a barn burner for 4 of us on a break away.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

mimason said:


> Why don't you try setting lap times for your rides? You can then determine door to door averages or factor out warm up and cool down for your circuit.


I've done this for years (ok decades) and have kept track of averages on both general rides and benchmark circuits. So any improvement due to either equipment or conditioning shows up. It alleviates, as much as possible, any anecdotal/placebo effect of fancy bike parts. The best rides to do this with are club timetrials of 15km (10 mile) and 40km (25 mile) lengths.



> Yesterday I rode 60 and averaged 22.5 and while that does not sound like a big deal, if I carve out the front end and back end I ended up between 24-25mph for 45 miles with stop lights. It was a barn burner for 4 of us on a break away.


On a recent group ride with a bunch of hammerheads, who only let me get to the front 2x, I was 2.5mph faster over 30 miles than when I ride 30 miles hard solo. So, for me anyway, group ride averages don't count.


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## new2rd (Aug 8, 2010)

I would say 2-3 mph increase is a conservative number when it comes to comparing a solo ride and a group ride.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

CrimeWave said:


> You guys are probably right, it's more of a "feeling" rather than hard facts. Have you tried them? What were your experiences with ceramics?
> 
> ...and while I generally don't believe this sort of thing (due to test engineers "spinning" the truth, so to speak, or to falsified data or unfair conditions), here is a snipit from Campy:



Like Kerry Irons said, the magic is in the specification of the bearings, not in the material type of the bearings. However, if you search through this forum, it has been argued that for the superior specification of CULT it is easier to manufacture the bearings from ceramic than from steel. 

The plot that you cite will be more meaningful if it specified the grades of what they call "standard steel". People have been upgrading their steel bearings since the old days of cycling in order to reduce friction losses.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

osteomark said:


> Just throwing out a question on whether or not its worth getting new wheels.
> I'm plateauing at 18-19mi/hr on a 17mi solo ride and it feels like I can not sustain a glide when not pedaling. I'm @ 100-110psi. They are standard Bontrager wheels on a Trek 1.2.
> Or does mph improve very slowly?
> I can pedal at a 21mph avg on flats.
> ...


If you think that your glide is impeded, make sure it's not caused by rubbing brakes or that your hubs need servicing.


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## bwbishop (Sep 17, 2011)

Kerry Irons said:


> There is nothing magic about ceramics, and they are no faster than steel bearings of equivalent specification. Bearing losses with decent wheels, properly lubed are virtually zero to begin with. To suggest that you can coast noticeably farther/faster with ceramics needs to be backed up with some serious data. Your Fulcrum wheels may well be better rolling than your other wheels, but it is not due to the ceramic bearings.


People just throw out the word "ceramic" and think it's magical. If you're buying ceramic, and they don't claim at least ABEC-5, don't buy them. You can make ABEC-1 ceramics which are much worse than ABEC-5 steel.

It's like saying, "you can drive faster with a sports car." But a Mazda Miata is a sports car, and so is a Porche. Make sure you know which you're buying.


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## bwbishop (Sep 17, 2011)

Ok, I want to tackle two different comments on this tread. 

First off is average speed. I think a lot of people talk past each other with regard to average speed because they don't identify if they're talking about moving average, or trip average. My bike computer measures moving average. When I come to a stop at a light, the clock stops ticking and it doesn't count against my average speed, so this is measuring my moving average speed. The MapMyRide app is based on GPS, and if you sit at a light for 4 minutes, it averages 4 minutes of going 0 MPH into your average speed. So this give me my Trip Average Speed. They will be very different on my 20 mile commute to work because some days I can spend up to 5-7 minutes sitting at lights. My bike computer will say the ride took 60 minutes, and the GPS app will say 67 minutes. So if someone says they average 20MPH and you average 17mph, maybe you're the same and are just measuring it different and talking past each other. Personally, I always go by my moving average speed. I can do the same ride 10 times, and some times I catch all the lights green, that it wouldn't be fair to myself to compare that ride against one where I stop at every light.

As for wheels, these posts always reference one component, but ignore the entire machine. Like someone else eluded to, the wheels might not make a huge difference, but once you change out all sorts of components, ride with better posture, etc, it all adds up.

My current bike weights 18lbs, and I'm buying a new set of wheels that will decrease the weight by 1.969lbs. On paper I'm reducing the weight by ~11%. 

OMG, I'M GOING TO BE SO FAST! 

Unfortunately I weight 170lbs, and clothes, shoes, two water bottles, MP3 player, phone, and repair kit add another 10lbs, so the overall "Machine" weights 198 pounds, so really I'm only reducing the weight by less than 1%.

The biggest different will be my acceleration because I've significantly reduced my rotational moment of inertia, but my overall moving average speed? Meh... It'll be better, but perhaps not noticeably.

If you feel better and ride more because of the placebo affect of new equipment, then by all means, DO IT! They key is to just ride more.


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## pedalsquares (Aug 2, 2006)

To address what I perceive the OP's _real_ question to be, which is "what can I do to improve my average speed right away?", I would have to say, learn how to use your abs and lower back muscles. Spread the work around to other muscle groups so you can maintain speed on long climbs, and you can get that extra mph or so.


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