# Low cadence, high gear training?



## trip221 (Oct 22, 2003)

I used to ride a lot of hills, but I moved to an essentially flat area. I can drive to the hills, but most of the time it’s just easier to ride from home. Anyway, I was thinking I could simulate hills by turning a hard gear at a low cadence. So yesterday I basically chose a hard gear and kept it in that gear for a 50 mile ride (except for the warm up and cool down). 

My question is – will this type of riding hurt me or help me? I didn’t have any pain except for the normal muscle soreness afterwards. 

Thanks


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

trip221 said:


> I used to ride a lot of hills, but I moved to an essentially flat area. I can drive to the hills, but most of the time it’s just easier to ride from home. Anyway, I was thinking I could simulate hills by turning a hard gear at a low cadence. So yesterday I basically chose a hard gear and kept it in that gear for a 50 mile ride (except for the warm up and cool down).
> 
> My question is – will this type of riding hurt me or help me? I didn’t have any pain except for the normal muscle soreness afterwards.
> 
> Thanks


http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=144532&highlight=cadence

TF


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

trip221 said:


> I used to ride a lot of hills, but I moved to an essentially flat area. I can drive to the hills, but most of the time it’s just easier to ride from home. Anyway, I was thinking I could simulate hills by turning a hard gear at a low cadence. So yesterday I basically chose a hard gear and kept it in that gear for a 50 mile ride (except for the warm up and cool down).
> 
> My question is – will this type of riding hurt me or help me? I didn’t have any pain except for the normal muscle soreness afterwards.
> 
> Thanks


Probably won't hurt you, it will probably help you to ride at low cadence. If you don't have any reason to ride at a low cadence, I'm not sure it will do you any good. I've done low cadence training in anticipation of going from my flat area to riding climbs and it didn't seem to me to really make any difference. It certainly wasn't a substitute for climbing hills or mountains.


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## Schneiderguy (Jan 9, 2005)

Carmichael's "tempo" rides are based upon riding with HR or power in your "temp" zone but using a large gear with a cadence of 60-70 rpm. My tempo zone is 140-150. So when i've done these in the late fall or winter I ride for 1 hr to more around a 145 hr average in the big ring using gears to keep my HR in this zone. It's not easy but not like Max VO2 interval workout. Carmichael will have Lance, Big George types do this for 2 hrs. My understanding is that it builds muscle endurance. My main problem is that where I live there is almost no flats and lots of rollers. i have to go down hill really hard in a really big gear to keep the HR up and the muscle resistance high. It takes lots of shifting and lots of concentration. On a flat course it would be much easier-i think. But this isn't doing hill repeats at a cadence of 30-40.


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## trip221 (Oct 22, 2003)

TurboTurtle said:


> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=144532&highlight=cadence
> 
> TF


Wow, there's a lot of debate on this issue.

I'll just ride at whatever is comfortable and have a good time. I'm not training for any races, just fast club rides and centuries.

Thanks!


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## z rocks (Sep 9, 2007)

I dunno....myself and some friends around here who in addition to road riding regularly climb mountains on single speed bikes are generally off the front on climbs when riding the carbon gearies on club outings. We like to think the singlespeeding helps form a good pedal stroke at low cadence (and teaches good suffering technique). Could be all wrong though.


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## Zipp0 (Aug 19, 2008)

trip221 said:


> I used to ride a lot of hills, but I moved to an essentially flat area. I can drive to the hills, but most of the time it’s just easier to ride from home. Anyway, I was thinking I could simulate hills by turning a hard gear at a low cadence. So yesterday I basically chose a hard gear and kept it in that gear for a 50 mile ride (except for the warm up and cool down).
> 
> My question is – will this type of riding hurt me or help me? I didn’t have any pain except for the normal muscle soreness afterwards.
> 
> Thanks


Studies have shown that low cadence, high resistance intervals help 40K TT performance. I found this study when looking at training techniques for my first time trial that I plan to do next spring:

High-Resistance Interval Training Improves 40-km Time-Trial
Performance in Competitive Cyclists


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Zipp0 said:


> Studies have shown that low cadence, high resistance intervals help 40K TT performance. I found this study when looking at training techniques for my first time trial that I plan to do next spring:
> 
> High-Resistance Interval Training Improves 40-km Time-Trial
> Performance in Competitive Cyclists


That study is almost infamous in this debate!

It has a major methodological flaw. Intervals are pretty well established to improve fitness and performance. The "high-resistance interval training" group were the only group that performed additional intervals. Therefore you can't conclude the low-cadence nature of the intervals (rather than just the increased work performed) had anything to do with their increased performance since the control group didn't do any extra work at all.

If you're going to claim some special benefit for low-cadence intervals they need to be compared to normal self-selected cadence intervals. I would hypothesize that in such a comparison the difference would either disappear or low-cadence would perform worst since power is often compromised at low cadences.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Schneiderguy said:


> Carmichael's "tempo" rides are based upon riding with HR or power in your "temp" zone but using a large gear with a cadence of 60-70 rpm. My tempo zone is 140-150. So when i've done these in the late fall or winter I ride for 1 hr to more around a 145 hr average in the big ring using gears to keep my HR in this zone. It's not easy but not like Max VO2 interval workout. Carmichael will have Lance, Big George types do this for 2 hrs. My understanding is that it builds muscle endurance. My main problem is that where I live there is almost no flats and lots of rollers. i have to go down hill really hard in a really big gear to keep the HR up and the muscle resistance high. It takes lots of shifting and lots of concentration. On a flat course it would be much easier-i think. But this isn't doing hill repeats at a cadence of 30-40.


There was a big security guard who one day talked to me.. he was 50..and was saying how bike racing was different back in the day.. couldn't tell what he was racing..

but he said to grind it out up the hills to get strong and spin fast down the other side to work on the spinnning.

I think a powertap or srm will help you for doing intervals. alot of guys here do 2x20 for 300 watts or there abouts. 

but definitely - you need to do big gears and small gear in periodization.. work on strength and cardio separately.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

trip221 said:


> Wow, there's a lot of debate on this issue.
> 
> I'll just ride at whatever is comfortable and have a good time. I'm not training for any races, just fast club rides and centuries.
> 
> Thanks!


it's almost as bad as being democrat or republican in the house or senate.


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