# 2013 Red



## velominati

Looks like 2013 is going to be a good year for top end group sets!

SRAM Red 2013


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## bcapp

I dig the video. Kudos on the timing, SRAM, I was going to be building my next bike next fall anyway.


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## Wilier_speed

Looks promising. I can't imagine how they dropped so much weight off the already feather-light current version. Weight weenies are going to go nuts for the new RED!


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## Camilo

*backwards compatability*

I didn't read the article super carefully nor look at the video, but I wonder...

Will the new FD be compatable with the current Red shifters?


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## robdamanii

Camilo said:


> I didn't read the article super carefully nor look at the video, but I wonder...
> 
> Will the new FD be compatable with the current Red shifters?


It doesn't say specifically that it won't. They seem to say the changes are in the derailleur, not the shifter.


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## Dan Gerous

Wilier_speed said:


> Looks promising. I can't imagine how they dropped so much weight off the already feather-light current version. Weight weenies are going to go nuts for the new RED!


The weight drop will mainly come from the cassette, the crankset and the brakes... Still, more than half a pound lost is huge! :thumbsup:


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## BunnV

*individual part weights?*

Anyone want to take a guess as to how much the new brake calipers weigh? I just bought a set of TRP 970 SL brakes. Claimed weight is 104 grams per caliper. I wish I would have known that SRAM was coming out with new stuff before I bought these TRP brakes. I bet the new Red calipers will be in that ballpark. 

In any event, I'm waiting for the 2013 Red group for my new build. No batteries required! :thumbsup:


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## robdamanii

Another new image of the Red group:


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## BunnV

Where did you find this? Everything looks great, but that outside chainring is going to have to grow on me. I'm saving my pennies in any event. :yesnod:


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## robdamanii

BunnV said:


> Where did you find this? Everything looks great, but that outside chainring is going to have to grow on me. I'm saving my pennies in any event. :yesnod:


It was posted on the SRAM facebook page this morning.


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## mjdwyer23

Dang, just build a bike up with red black. Maybe I'll swap it out, when's the new stuff hitting stores?


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## macdonc

Love that it is 10 speed. At least for now. Should be nearly 2lbs (!) lighter than Di2. Sold!


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## mimason

Could this group do to Shimano what Xbox360 did to Playstation? Me thinks Shimano is in a **** load of trouble.


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## velominati

And more info - RED 2013


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## squareslinky

I wonder if they will have a new version with the Quarg power meter also


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## robdamanii

squareslinky said:


> I wonder if they will have a new version with the Quarg power meter also


Seems like it would be tough to accomplish, since the spider of the Red crank is not removable.


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## squareslinky

robdamanii said:


> Seems like it would be tough to accomplish, since the spider of the Red crank is not removable.


Understood, but they bought quarq after their current design, so maybe they will incorporate a new design with quarg also.


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## robdamanii

squareslinky said:


> Understood, but they bought quarq after their current design, so maybe they will incorporate a new design with quarg also.


They already have the S900 carbon model crankset. 

Unless they completely redesign the Quarq unit, it's not likely to see any change in the arms offered. They depend upon the ability of the chainring spider to be separated from the arms. The current SRAM offerings are all moulded as one piece.

I'd expect to see changes in Force and Rival before seeing a new Quarq.


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## framesti

Road disc brake means we will need to buy a new hub/rim?


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## maxxevv

mimason said:


> Could this group do to Shimano what Xbox360 did to Playstation? Me thinks Shimano is in a **** load of trouble.


Similar was said on the online forums when the original Red came out ....


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## velominati

framesti said:


> Road disc brake means we will need to buy a new hub/rim?


I doubt we will be seeing disc brakes for the road. Just CX.

Anyway, you can use whatever rim you want. Only the hub has to change.


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## velominati

More details


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## BunnV

velominati said:


> I doubt we will be seeing disc brakes for the road. Just CX.
> 
> Anyway, you can use whatever rim you want. Only the hub has to change.


Disc brakes for cross for sure, but I think they will have it for road too. It's the next logical step. Disc equipped road bikes are already available.


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## velominati

Maybe. But the UCI would have to jump on board first before a big shift happened. And knowing how long it took them to allow disc brakes for cross, I am not holding my breathe for road!


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## BunnV

*"Yaw come back now, ya hear!"*

I LOVE it. Cant wait to buy it!


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## Wookiebiker

velominati said:


> Maybe. But the UCI would have to jump on board first before a big shift happened. And knowing how long it took them to allow disc brakes for cross, I am not holding my breathe for road!


There is currently nothing in the rules that "Don't" allow disc brakes for road bikes when it comes to racing...however, any changes have to be approved by the UCI.

So technically...disc brakes could be used for racing without any rules changes...they just need UCI approval, which is a bit easier to overcome.


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## velominati

Wookiebiker said:


> There is currently nothing in the rules that "Don't" allow disc brakes for road bikes when it comes to racing...however, any changes have to be approved by the UCI.
> 
> So technically...disc brakes could be used for racing without any rules changes...they just need UCI approval, which is a bit easier to overcome.


Good to know. Thanks for the info!

In the meantime, more from SRAM


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## velominati

Getting a little off topic, but here is an interesting bit on disc brakes for road, via road.cc and the UCI.


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## camping biker

Yeah, road disc brakes will mean you need a whole new bike. 

//velonews.competitor. corn/2011/12/bikes-and-tech/the-torqued-wrench-disc-brakes-coming-soon-to-a-drop-bar-near-you_200057?fb_ref=velonews-post]The Torqued Wrench: Disc brakes, coming soon to a drop bar near you[/url]



framesti said:


> Road disc brake means we will need to buy a new hub/rim?


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## samh

when will this be released?


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## robdamanii

samh said:


> when will this be released?


Supposedly February. Not sure if that means for companies to put on bikes or for individual retail sale.


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## bugger22

Here's a few things I've heard. These may prove not true but I am beginning to think it's fairly accurate. 

The new FD and front shifter are not compatible with with older Red. The amount of cable pull on the new front shifter is different. 

There is a new Red crank integrated with Quarq. It's supposed to be very slick almost aero looking. 

Everything else is as been stated. Also expect about a 15% price increase which will put its price much closer to DA mechanical.


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## BunnV

*Weights and pricing*

Maybe...
This was posted on Competitive Cyclist site but quickly yanked. Someone else posted it on Light Bikes. Here is the link. Sram RED 2012 - Seite 2 - Light-Bikes Forum


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## squareslinky

bugger22 said:


> There is a new Red crank integrated with Quarq. It's supposed to be very slick almost aero looking.


This peaks my interest.


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## robdamanii

Excited. WW is reporting that it'll be in stores come April for purchase.


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## cxwrench

i hear next wed is the day...not sure when you can actually get your hands on it, but that's the day of the 'official announcement'.


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## BunnV

cxwrench said:


> i hear next wed is the day...not sure when you can actually get your hands on it, but that's the day of the 'official announcement'.


That is February 1st. I doubt that's the day you can buy it. I called SRAM directly and the guy I spoke with told me "around summer" is when it may be out. I asked my LBS to call SRAM and they told him "around April". Sooooooooooo, I hope its long before summer but I don't expect it in February. I hope I'm wrong! :hand:


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## cxwrench

no way you'll be able to buy any time soon...probably be a few months out.


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## Chadwick890

Got this little gem from Facebook










"SRAM's professional mechanics get prepped for our upcoming launch here in rainy Mallorca, Spain. This underground bunker (it's actually under the hotel's pool) is the best place to prep bikes in private and out of the rain. Look for some RED news on Wednesday of next week...stay tuned."


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## BunnV

*It's Landed!*

Check it out!


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## Chadwick890

IT DROPPED!!! 

SRAM Red 2012 ? Full Details - BikeRadar


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## jhbeeton

Seems like tim johnson's at the reveal in Spain. His red bull helmets peaking out from the SRAM kitted riders on the demo bikes 

Personally, I'd like to get my hands on the new fd and find out it works fine. In the meantime my old DA 7800 steel caged derailler mated to sram shifters is doing a capable job moving the chain on my rotor rings


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## bugger22

Well I guess my info was correct. I'm surprised!!

Incompatible new FD and Fr shifter....
New integrated Quarq Red crankset
And 15% price increase.


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## squareslinky

Where are you getting that the new FD is not compatible? I am seeing the same question asked, but no direct answer on it.

Happy to see the new Quarq with better looking arms.


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## bugger22

squareslinky said:


> Where are you getting that the new FD is not compatible? I am seeing the same question asked, but no direct answer on it.
> 
> Happy to see the new Quarq with better looking arms.


FTA:
_Now the bad news: It’s not compatible with the current gen (original) Red levers. Because of the modified pivots and links, SRAM had to change the cable pull. Those looking to upgrade in sections will at least need to get the new levers along with the front derailleur. It’s optimized to work with the new X-Glide chainrings._

Source: BikeRumor.com


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## cs101

As a current full RED group user - looks exciting to me.

(Just replying to get my post count up etc.)

Dave


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## AnthonyL88

BunnV said:


> That is February 1st. I doubt that's the day you can buy it. I called SRAM directly and the guy I spoke with told me "around summer" is when it may be out. I asked my LBS to call SRAM and they told him "around April". Sooooooooooo, I hope its long before summer but I don't expect it in February. I hope I'm wrong! :hand:


2 weeks ago my LBS said they spoke to Sram and was told it will be available in 6-8 weeks. I'm buying the new Sram Red Group for my 2012 Fuji SST 1.0 Limited Edition frameset.


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## AnthonyL88

Here's a Sram Red video.

SRAM Red 2012 - YouTube


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## CliveDS

Just had the first group in my workshop and did a short Youtube video and photo essay on my flickr. glorycycles's Channel - YouTube

Most interesting thing to me is the large space and open hole in the shifter that in my mind can only be for hydraulic cylinder. 

The beefed up chainrings are a welcome change and the brake caliper is really fantastic. 

BB stays the same and for the most part the shift feels the same.


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## ultimobici

CliveDS said:


> Just had the first group in my workshop and did a short Youtube video and photo essay on my flickr. glorycycles's Channel - YouTube
> 
> Most interesting thing to me is the large space and open hole in the shifter that in my mind can only be for hydraulic cylinder.
> 
> The beefed up chainrings are a welcome change and the brake caliper is really fantastic.
> 
> BB stays the same and for the most part the shift feels the same.


Pity it's not as light as we were led to believe, eh? Rumours were almost a full pound (400g+) but in reality its more like a third of that at 150g.


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## BunnV

Hey CliveDS.
Thanks for posting that video. Did you say that RED will be available March 8th? I watched your vid on my phone and the sound quality is not great on it. Also, will there be a compact crank availabe at the tme of release or will that come later? 

Thanks in advance and keep posting videos!


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## CliveDS

BunnV said:


> Hey CliveDS.
> Thanks for posting that video. Did you say that RED will be available March 8th? I watched your vid on my phone and the sound quality is not great on it. Also, will there be a compact crank availabe at the tme of release or will that come later?
> 
> Thanks in advance and keep posting videos!


There is a very limited run of groups going to be available early March and the bigger shipment in June/July. So if you want one in March you need to put in your order with a good dealer.


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## dstreelm

Here is a compatibility chart:










and more info from bikerumor:

Unveiled! New 2012 SRAM Red – Lighter, Quieter, More Aero, Better Ergonomics - Bike Rumor


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## ultimobici

So officially it's 83g lighter? LMFAO, what a load of bull we've been fed for the last few months!


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## Chadwick890

Looking at all of this i wish theres just going to be a bundle for just the...
Front/Rear Derailers. Shifters and crankset. Thats what i want to upgrade but get the feeling it would somehow be cheaper to upgrade the whole groupset.
Or pick up a old red groupset upgrade the remaining parts to that.
What are you guys going to do?


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## CabDoctor

hmmmmmm not so sure about this Yaw feature. Here's what I put on my blog

"...The only major difference worth mentioning is the new "YAW" feature on the front derailleur. What does this mean? The back half of the derailleur moves more than the front.

In theory this is a good thing. But it seems like an disaster waiting to happen if you even think about cross chaining. I can see it now. You're off the front on the one race you do a year and as you hit the climb you start dumping gears while staying in your 53. BOOM GOES THE CAGE OF YOUR UBEREXPENSIVE DERAILLEUR. Why, because the chain is all the way to the left and the designers thought it would be awesome to make it lean to the right. Hey, it could happen........"

weapons of mass distraction​


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## cxwrench

CabDoctor said:


> hmmmmmm not so sure about this Yaw feature. Here's what I put on my blog
> 
> "The only major difference worth mentioning is the new "YAW" feature on the front derailleur. Whats this mean? The back half of the derailleur move more than the front.
> 
> In theory this is a good thing. But while it seems like an disaster waiting to happen if you try at all to cross chain. I can see it now. You're off the front on the one race you do a year and as you hit the climb you start dumping gears while staying in your 53. BOOM GOES THE CAGE OF YOUR UBEREXPENSIVE DERAILLEUR. Why, because the chain is all the way to the left and the designers thought it would be awesome to make it lean even more to the right. Hey, it could happen......."
> 
> weapons of mass distraction​


seriously? you do remember that this is SRAM's top-of-the-line *RACE* group, right? don't you think that maybe...just maybe...the guys at SRAM (who have a little bit of race experience) know that racers cross-chain all the time? and that they've more than likely designed their *RACE* parts w/ this in mind?


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## CabDoctor

cxwrench said:


> seriously? you do remember that this is SRAM's top-of-the-line *RACE* group, right? don't you think that maybe...just maybe...the guys at SRAM (who have a little bit of race experience) know that racers cross-chain all the time? and that they've more than likely designed their *RACE* parts w/ this in mind?


Yeah, like when they made the first generation Red FD cage out of titanium and made it SO flexy not a single team would use it until they came out with a stainless steel version. Yeah they have a great track record when it comes to their FDs


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## cxwrench

CabDoctor said:


> Yeah, like when they made the first generation Red FD cage out of titanium and made it SO flexy not a single team would use it until they came out with a stainless steel version. Yeah they have a great track record when it comes to their FDs


a front derailleur that works but lacks the snappy performance of other models is a bit different than the self-destructing nightmare you're thinking about.


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## CabDoctor

cxwrench said:


> a front derailleur that works but lacks the snappy performance of other models is a bit different than the self-destructing nightmare you're thinking about.


I would hardly say it "worked." They were asking a Ferrari price but delivering Kia performance. Not really getting what you paid for. If you hired a plumber to fix a faucet and when he finished the hot water only came out as trickle, would say it "worked?" I mean it's only lacking snappy performance.....

My example was a worse case worst case scenario. I think what we will see on average is a loud groupo that will only be louder with cross-chaining. Anytime you change a design there are trade offs. The obvious one here is it's going to be a lot less tolerant of poor gear selection. This is especially true of compact crank users who tend to use their whole cassette while in the big ring.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be rude or mean and I'm sorry if I have. If the FD works as they say, I'll be buying one.....but I'm very skeptical.


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## Dan Gerous

With or without that new front derailleur, I and many people use the whole cassette while on the big ring. I'm sure the drivetrain wears out a bit faster but I never had any sudden failures or other problems. Even wear is acceptable. The Yaw thing wont change anything apart that you wont have to trim the derailleur when you do get to the extreme cross-chain combos... if you don't want to cross chain, the new Red wont force you to...

I do agree that the old Ti-caged Red front derailleur wasn't that good. Light yes, it worked everytime yes, but shifts were noticably slower than with, say, a Force derailleur. Another reason to stay on the big ring!  If trim is eliminated, I'm all for it... but I'm more interested in faster shifts, a stiffer derailleur.

The weight loss of the new Red isn't as dramatic as I thought it would be... I was expecting more difference in the crankset... But I don't mind too much, I wouldn't use that crankset anyway.


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## Dan Gerous

By the way, everything is pretty much cross compatible between the old and new Red (or other groups). Cable pull were not changed, they're the same for the brakes and both derailleurs. Cog and chainring spacing too. The only thing is that if you were to use the new front derailleur with the old levers, you would have trimming but for nothing. But the opposite, new levers with an old derailleur, you would lose the trim but might need it if you cross chain (on my cross bike with 38/46 rings, I can use the whole cassette on the big ring without trimming already)...

And I heard there will be another rear derailleur compatible with an Apex sized rear cassette with a 32T cog.


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## deviousalex

So, are the hydraulic brakes going to be in 2013?


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## CabDoctor

Yeah but probably not till at least 6 months after the initial release. You'll probably see the prototypes at the cross races early next year.


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## deviousalex

dstreelm said:


> Here is a compatibility chart:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and more info from bikerumor:
> 
> Unveiled! New 2012 SRAM Red – Lighter, Quieter, More Aero, Better Ergonomics - Bike Rumor


Why do the new cranksets only work with the new RED?


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## Dan Gerous

deviousalex said:


> Why do the new cranksets only work with the new RED?


Because SRAM wants you to buy more parts.


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## CabDoctor

The interesting thing is the cable ratios for Red 2013 are still 1:1 It'll be be interesting to see what works with what......


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## kbwh

That new brake design is interesting. Tire clearance is always nice to have, and that multi step quick release might come quite handy.
The ease of reach adjustment on brake and gear levers is nice for the shorter of finger.

But Campy it aint!


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## thumper8888

so some of the reports, which mostly are press release rewrites and therefore likely based on SRAM's words, seem to be saying the crank isnt compatible with say shimano shifters/der.
is that possible? or just the usual manufacturer's suggestion that it "might not work perfectly" to make you worried enough to buy a full group of their stuff?


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## dstreelm

deviousalex said:


> Why do the new cranksets only work with the new RED?





Dan Gerous said:


> Because SRAM wants you to buy more parts.


I think the question is HOW is the crankset 2012 only?

Obviously its not because of the chain because that is backwards compatible. The only thing it could be is because of the new front der. Are the rings spaced differently than a standard crankset or something?


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## Dan Gerous

dstreelm said:


> I think the question is HOW is the crankset 2012 only?
> 
> Obviously its not because of the chain because that is backwards compatible. The only thing it could be is because of the new front der. Are the rings spaced differently than a standard crankset or something?


No, chainring spacing hasn't changed. They shouldn't use the term 'compatibility' but 'for best results'. The new chainrings are supposedly much stiffer with a much better ramps and pins design so my guess is their chart is the suggested setup to makes sure the shifting is as much better as they claim.

But companies say these things everytime they release new stuff.


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## GDTRFB

I was at my LBS in the Boston area yesterday when a SRAM rep was in with a prototype 2012 Red group. I was very impressed with the weight, looks & ergonomics the whole group. The levers are really comfortable, and the crank looks really nice. The chainrings look as if they'll help shifting, and I really like that the 5th spider arm bolt is on the crankarm itself.


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## davidka

Red launch
New Red: Going a bit deeper

1st one Claims the new RED has the best cable driven front shifting out there now.

2nd one shows about 200g weight difference.


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## RC28

CabDoctor said:


> Yeah, like when they made the first generation Red FD cage out of titanium and made it SO flexy *not a single team would use it until they came out with a stainless steel version*. Yeah they have a great track record when it comes to their FDs


I know MANY used the steel version, but I also know many in fact used the titanium one.

Nibali was using it last year at the Giro, for example : Pro Bike: Vincenzo Nibali?s Liquigas-Cannondale SuperSix Evo - BikeRadar


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## deviousalex

Not to mention most pro bikes can get below 15 lbs today so they use a Force front derailleur to add weight.


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## ultimobici

davidka said:


> Red launch
> New Red: Going a bit deeper
> 
> 1st one Claims the new RED has the best cable driven front shifting out there now.
> 
> 2nd one shows about 200g weight difference.


Problem is their mathematical ability is severely compromised.

According to Sram's own figures, 2011 Red is 1926 in GXP form and 1796 in BB30 form, both using a braze-on front mech and 11-23 cassette.

Taking Sram's own figures for 2012 Red we get 1843 and 1739 for the two versions. So a grand weight reduction of 83g & 57g respectively.

The only way one can get to approaching 200g is by comparing 2011 GXP to 2012 BB30. Hardly a fair or accurate method, is it?

So Red is lighter, great. But it isn't anywhere near the claimed amount nor the rumours of half a pound. Marketing triumphs again.


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## deviousalex

ultimobici said:


> The only way one can get to approaching 200g is by comparing 2011 GXP to 2012 BB30. Hardly a fair or accurate method, is it?



Clearly you don't work in marketing


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## ultimobici

deviousalex said:


> Clearly you don't work in marketing


No, I work for a living and have some morals.


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## cartmaniac

deviousalex said:


> Not to mention most pro bikes can get below 15 lbs today so they use a Force front derailleur to add weight.


Well, I would say they use a Force (or re-branded steel Red) derailleur because it actually works, not because it adds weight. The titanium Red front derailleur sucks. Been there, done that. The day mine broke was a blessing, as it Forced me to "upgrade" to the Force derailleur. Way better.

I'm pretty interested to see the new Red FD, with the Yaw design. That's what I like about SRAM --- innovative developments. Maybe a few of them don't work out, but I'm still a very happy SRAM customer, both MTB and road!


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## davidka

ultimobici said:


> Problem is their mathematical ability is severely compromised.
> 
> According to Sram's own figures, 2011 Red is 1926 in GXP form and 1796 in BB30 form, both using a braze-on front mech and 11-23 cassette.
> 
> Taking Sram's own figures for 2012 Red we get 1843 and 1739 for the two versions. So a grand weight reduction of 83g & 57g respectively.
> 
> The only way one can get to approaching 200g is by comparing 2011 GXP to 2012 BB30. Hardly a fair or accurate method, is it?
> 
> So Red is lighter, great. But it isn't anywhere near the claimed amount nor the rumours of half a pound. Marketing triumphs again.


Perhaps SRAM needs to reconcile what Velo News is reporting with the source you've pulled these numbers from. From the Velonews article:

New BB30 RED = 1739 grams
Old BB30 RED = 1926 grams
Difference = 187 grams

New GXP RED = 1791g
Old GXP RED = 1939g
Difference = 148g

Either way, if one were buying the new group on weight alone the it wouldn't be worth the price of any one of the components (though it is reported to be lighter than Shimano's stuff, we'll see what the new D/A weighs eventually). It's reported to function better with a nicer, more comfortable hood shape so that's the motivator to upgrade. I think we've reached a point where our bikes are light enough and it appears that the component makers are not pursuing weight savings as aggressively.

Interesting to me is how staying with 10 speeds will pan out for them. With Shimano going to 11 gears for the next generation D/A, people will have to consider dumping their wheels to move with on Shimano or use SRAM (assuming that they want a new group).


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## centurion9

*New SRAM Red Group review*

I cant post links yet, but if you go to the Neuvation website, and click on "Deal of the Day" there is a link at the bottom to a Velonews review of the new Red.


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## deviousalex

davidka said:


> Interesting to me is how staying with 10 speeds will pan out for them. With Shimano going to 11 gears for the next generation D/A, people will have to consider dumping their wheels to move with on Shimano or use SRAM (assuming that they want a new group).


Is the new DA going to be different size dropouts?


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## davidka

deviousalex said:


> Is the new DA going to be different size dropouts?


I don't know for sure. There are some early reports that state that it's 11-speed (some leaked Shimano internal materials were the cause of lots of early info) that say it has a wider cassette and freehub body but still 130mm spacing. It's only 67gm lighter than 7900 which supports the notion that the new groups aren't weight oriented as much.

See here:
11-Speed Shimano Dura-Ace 9000 Group | Pro Cycling News: This Just In | Bicycling.com


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## Wookiebiker

Hydraulic disc and rim brakes for 2013

Looks like Hydraulic brakes for road bikes (beyond the TT rim brake being used on the new Cervelo P5) will be here in the Fall of 2012 or Spring of 2013. Zipp is also working on new rims/wheels for disc brakes.

The shifter hoods will have hydraulic reservoir in the hoods...nice and clean.

Looking forward to this development


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## cxwrench

RC28 said:


> I know MANY used the steel version, but I also know many in fact used the titanium one.
> 
> Nibali was using it last year at the Giro, for example : Pro Bike: Vincenzo Nibali?s Liquigas-Cannondale SuperSix Evo - BikeRadar


definitely true...we ordered the 'steel cage red' version in our pre-season parts order for all the team bikes. then kristin armstrong showed up at sea otter w/ a brand new tt bike. sram sent the parts to her and joe (her husband) built it. they were the then-new black red, and they sent her a ti cage red frt der...it worked ok, but i was glad joe was taking care of that bike, not me!


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## Bozworth

Does anyone know if the new SRAM Red will show up on any complete production bikes this year? For example, I was looking at the Jamis Elite (currently shipping with a full Sram Red 2011 group), but I'd like to get the new Sram red group.


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## BunnV

*See the booklet on new SRAM RED*

Has everyone seen this?

One thing that concerns me is that there is no mention of a compact version of the crank.


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## mimason

BunnV said:


> Has everyone seen this?
> 
> One thing that concerns me is that there is no mention of a compact version of the crank.


Yeah, I don't get the whole crank compatibility thing either. I don't buy it.

My shifters have a lot of use and was thinking about doing a shifter and FD only.


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## Dan Gerous

Bozworth said:


> Does anyone know if the new SRAM Red will show up on any complete production bikes this year? For example, I was looking at the Jamis Elite (currently shipping with a full Sram Red 2011 group), but I'd like to get the new Sram red group.


Well, the old Red is the 2012 model still. The new one is 2013. I'm guessing some brands will have it on some 2012 models but not all. The new Red wont be available in big quantities right from March.

There will be compact cranks yes...


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## BunnV

mimason said:


> Yeah, I don't get the whole crank compatibility thing either. I don't buy it.
> 
> My shifters have a lot of use and was thinking about doing a shifter and FD only.


I just watched a SRAM video on You Tube about the YAW feature of the front derailleur. I think if you use the new X Glide chain rings you will be okay with your old crank, new shifter and new FD. 

See what you think: Yaw - YouTube


----------



## AnthonyL88

According to the owner of my LBS, he was told by his distributor the New Sram Red Group will be available late March at the earliest. If you miss your chance for the New Red Group during the 1st shipment, the next shipment won't be available until July.


----------



## BunnV

I was told the exact same thing. My group is on order. :thumbsup:


----------



## AnthonyL88

BunnV said:


> I was told the exact same thing. My group is on order. :thumbsup:


Yes, I put my order in for the New Sram Red.


----------



## Dan Gerous

Boom! Hydraulics!


----------



## BunnV

Dan Gerous said:


> Boom! Hydraulics!



Wow! So, is it a different shifter that is hydraulic only or is the new Red shifter compatible for mechanical or hydraulic? I love the idea of hydraulic rim brakes! 

Any ideas on pricing? I'm scared.....:eek6:


----------



## robdamanii

BunnV said:


> Wow! So, is it a different shifter that is hydraulic only or is the new Red shifter compatible for mechanical or hydraulic? I love the idea of hydraulic rim brakes!
> 
> Any ideas on pricing? I'm scared.....:eek6:


From what I read here it's a different lever.


----------



## Dan Gerous

Yes, different lever. The hydraulic model has a much taller bump on the front/top to house the master cylinder.


----------



## BunnV

I hoped it was the same to give me the option to switch to hydraulic later. I already ordered my new Red group. Oh well..........


----------



## Dan Gerous

Lever incompatibility between cable/hydraulic is the reason not many use discs in cyclocross and that discs on the road are almost inexistent. Mechanical levers mean you're stuck with boat anchors crappy mechanical discs brake. Avid BB7 are the best cable actuated disc brakes but they are very heavy and perform not so great compared to hydraulics, not worth it over standard rim brakes IMO.

With these, I think we'll see more than Tim Johnson on discs next year.


----------



## velominati

Same pictures of the new hydraulic system, but more info here


----------



## wheeliedave

*Some pictures from the counter here at the shop*

Facebook

A link to the pictures on our Facebook page.


----------



## Dan Gerous

For those who asked about compacts, it will be available a month after the standard crankset. Source: velonews


----------



## robdamanii

wheeliedave said:


> Facebook
> 
> A link to the pictures on our Facebook page.


Very cool photos.


----------



## BunnV

wheeliedave said:


> Facebook
> 
> A link to the pictures on our Facebook page.


It seems like every picture of the new Red cassette that I've seen, they show the 11-28. Is SRAM hinting at something? 

I currently have old Force with a compact 50/34 and an 11-26 (and before that 11-23) cassette. I'm used to that combination and ordered the same combo for my new Red group. 

Now I'm wondering if I should go with a standard crank and an 11-28. The difference is about two gear inches in the lowest gear but with a much higher high gear that would be great on descents! Anyone have an opinion on that?


----------



## CabDoctor

Any word on when their Disc-Compatible Road hubs will be available? OR even if there will be any?


----------



## Dan Gerous

Zipp are working on disc compatible wheels... They haven't set a date but it will be later than the Red discs, I heard not before the end of 2012... But if your frame has a 135mm spacing, there are plenty of nice light rear disc hubs already. If you want pre-built, Hed will have some options out this spring (135mm), Reynolds have disc-hubed road/cx wheels on the way and Williams too... Others will probably follow too.


----------



## wheeliedave

*SRAM Red 2012 11-28 cassette.*

What we were told the first batch of Red to arrive will be the following:
11-28t cassettes 
53/39t 172.5mm GXP crankset
braze-on front der.
short cage rear
brakeset
chain
The other sizes will arrive later
Might be available as early as next week. Suppliers are prebooking there groups now. If you want the first batch act fast.


----------



## CabDoctor

Dan Gerous said:


> Zipp are working on disc compatible wheels... They haven't set a date but it will be later than the Red discs, I heard not before the end of 2012... But if your frame has a 135mm spacing, there are plenty of nice light rear disc hubs already. If you want pre-built, Hed will have some options out this spring (135mm), Reynolds have disc-hubed road/cx wheels on the way and Williams too... Others will probably follow too.


So it sounds like you're SOL if you're looking for 130mm disc hub at a cheap price. Your best bet is to wait till you upgrade to 135mm frame.


----------



## BunnV

wheeliedave said:


> What we were told the first batch of Red to arrive will be the following:
> *11-28t cassettes *
> 53/39t 172.5mm GXP crankset
> braze-on front der.
> *short cage rear*
> brakeset
> chain
> The other sizes will arrive later
> Might be available as early as next week. Suppliers are prebooking there groups now. If you want the first batch act fast.


Interesting....does a short cage derailleur even work with a 28? Also, you didn't mention shifters but I hope those will be available in the first batch! :eek6:


----------



## Dan Gerous

BunnV said:


> Interesting....does a short cage derailleur even work with a 28? Also, you didn't mention shifters but I hope those will be available in the first batch! :eek6:


Yes it works fine. The old Red only had short cages but also had 11-28 cassettes. Works perfectly. The new Red will have medium cages later on but they will be able to shift up to a 32T big cog à la Apex.


----------



## BunnV

Thanks DG!
That's good information.


----------



## wheeliedave

*Yes, will include shifters.*

The new shifters will work with any SRAM rear der. while the front shifter will only work with the new Red front der. Bigger shift tab, easier to find adjustment, different shapped hood. The elastomer ring that goes around the space between the cogs on the cassette is interesting. How long will it last? will it work? The brake release has three positions. Everything looked good but it will all come down to how well it works.


----------



## Dan Gerous

The elastomer rings will be replacable and they are not required anyway, without them, the cassette should still be quieter than the old one for those who actually care about the noise (can't say it ever bothered me with the original Red cassette). I'm guessing weight weenies will take these off right away to shed a few single-digit grams..


----------



## Spectrum

Any word on the length of the axle on the BB30 crankset? Just curious to know if it will be compatible with BBright.


----------



## thumper8888

After careful consideration I'm calling marketing hogwash until
proven otherwise on the notion that the crankset won't be compatible with older red or shimano shifters and derailleurs.... The clue is that the chain hasnt changed. I'll buy that the new front der. works better but there would have to be some pretty bizarre changes to the crankset ramps and pins to make it LESS compatible while using same chain.
I'm certain it works just as well as current one with shimano, just better with full 2013 red setup.


----------



## Antonio Araujo

Why do you call it SRAM Red 2013 if it's SRAM Red - 2012 on the official website?


----------



## thumper8888

Antonio Araujo said:


> Why do you call it SRAM Red 2013 if it's SRAM Red - 2012 on the official website?


Why? Because I get paid to be precise with words. SRAM? They get paid to build bike parts.
It was intended to be the 2013 model year's product, ergo 2013 in my mind. They can call it what they will, and they are, but it's arbitrary either way.

And even if I were wrong -- and honest people could disagree on this if they didn't have anything better to do -- why are you wasting our time with a question like that?


----------



## Antonio Araujo

thumper8888 said:


> Why? Because I get paid to be precise with words. SRAM? They get paid to build bike parts.
> It was intended to be the 2013 model year's product, ergo 2013 in my mind. They can call it what they will, and they are, but it's arbitrary either way.
> 
> And even if I were wrong -- and honest people could disagree on this if they didn't have anything better to do -- why are you wasting our time with a question like that?


I'm sorry, I think I am "too amateur" to participate on a forum with "pros" like you so I guess I'll go find another one and I'll not waste your time anymore.

And for the record, I really wanted to know if this discussion was about the products that are going to be on sale next month or something else for the next year.


----------



## robdamanii

Antonio Araujo said:


> I'm sorry, I think I am "too amateur" to participate on a forum with "pros" like you so I guess I'll go find another one and I'll not waste your time anymore.
> 
> And for the record, I really wanted to know if this discussion was about the products that are going to be on sale next month or something else for the next year.


Have you not paid any attention to the preceding 5 pages?

First groups should be shipping in a month or so.


----------



## thumper8888

Antonio Araujo said:


> I'm sorry, I think I am "too amateur" to participate on a forum with "pros" like you so I guess I'll go find another one and I'll not waste your time anymore.
> 
> And for the record, I really wanted to know if this discussion was about the products that are going to be on sale next month or something else for the next year.


My apologies, really. Not wanting to be a jerk, but you have to understand that posts are like email, it's really really easy to have your intent misunderstood. 
There has been a bunch of trivial yakking in the bike media about whether its Red 2013 or Red 2012.
Without that going on as kind of background noise to what I initially wrote, your meaning might have been a little more clear to me. Or you could have phrased it a little more clearly, i.e. "Do you mean the new stuff that's about to come out, or something else?'
Again, 
apologies. Sorry about that.


----------



## Antonio Araujo

It's no problem. English is not my native language...


----------



## thumper8888

Antonio Araujo said:


> It's no problem. English is not my native language...


Ah mate you're just making me feel worse. I can barely ask for a beer in another language and of course that's the most important phrase of all.


----------



## flatsix911

Detailed specs from the SRAM 2012 brochure :thumbsup:


----------



## davidka

Based on industry standards, this is way late for 2012. 2012 bikes have been in stores since June of '11. I think SRAM lost control of this piece of it a little bit. Chances are, nobody will get the wrong stuff, every time there's confusion, a customer will say "The NEW stuff!". 

Some nice changes on this group. The new hoods look comfy.


----------



## hefeweizan

Got a chance to see the new Sram Red in person. It should be out in a month or 2


----------



## Sisbud

Hi,

does anybody know whether the new red would have the same brake pull ratio as the old one?
Essentially, will the new red be compatible with old red brake caliper?

thanks


----------



## Vee

Sisbud said:


> Hi,
> 
> does anybody know whether the new red would have the same brake pull ratio as the old one?
> Essentially, will the new red be compatible with old red brake caliper?
> 
> thanks


Brakes are brakes, man. Be concerned with the shifters and derailleurs being compatible, not the brakes.


----------



## Sisbud

Vee said:


> Brakes are brakes, man. Be concerned with the shifters and derailleurs being compatible, not the brakes.


Hi, i am just afraid what happened with Shimano Dura Ace 7900 when it came out.
Dura Ace 7900 had a bigger pull ratio compared to Dura Ace 7800, which essentially make combining the 2 versions would result in less than desirable result.


----------



## Vee

Sisbud said:


> Hi, i am just afraid what happened with Shimano Dura Ace 7900 when it came out.
> Dura Ace 7900 had a bigger pull ratio compared to Dura Ace 7800, which essentially make combining the 2 versions would result in less than desirable result.


With the brakes? I don't think so. The 7900 had a different pull ratio with the front derailleur if I recall.


----------



## vettracer

Vee said:


> With the brakes? I don't think so. The 7900 had a different pull ratio with the front derailleur if I recall.


Actually the Brake Pivot location of the brake lever was changed for 7900 which changed the cable pull. From Cyclingnews.com review;

"_On the bright side, we're happy to report that earlier accounts of a revised rear derailleur cable pull ratio were incorrect, meaning that the new levers will are compatible with older 10-speed rear derailleurs and vice-versa. However, that is small consolation as little else will be.

The new front derailleur cable pull ratio means that mismatching new and old shifters and front derailleurs will reportedly result in sluggish shifting. Also, the new levers pull more brake cable (the matching 7900 calipers are adjusted to compensate). As such, using new levers with old brakes will yield a firm lever feel but less power while old levers and new brakes will have plenty of power but a spongy feel. At least Shimano maintained the current 10-speed cog spacing_."

link to full review On The Road (finally!) With Dura-Ace 7900 | Cyclingnews.com


----------



## cxwrench

Vee said:


> With the brakes? I don't think so. The 7900 had a different pull ratio with the front derailleur if I recall.


same w/ the brakes. 7900 is different than 7800. not exactly a v-brake/canti type difference, but shimano made a big deal about saying that the new levers should be used w/ the new brakes. 
i got to see the new Red today, but nothing was mounted on a bike. our rep said that the rear shifting was backwards compatible, but not the front, nor the crank. his words were 'for optimal performance'... he didn't mention anything about the brakes working or not working w/ the old levers. i'll bet they would work fine. seemed like their major push w/ the new brakes was making them more aero and working better w/ wide rims.


----------



## thumper8888

Any word on how far out the BB30 version of the Quarq powermeter crankset is?


----------



## Sisbud

cxwrench said:


> same w/ the brakes. 7900 is different than 7800. not exactly a v-brake/canti type difference, but shimano made a big deal about saying that the new levers should be used w/ the new brakes.
> i got to see the new Red today, but nothing was mounted on a bike. our rep said that the rear shifting was backwards compatible, but not the front, nor the crank. his words were 'for optimal performance'... he didn't mention anything about the brakes working or not working w/ the old levers. i'll bet they would work fine. seemed like their major push w/ the new brakes was making them more aero and working better w/ wide rims.


That is great to hear in regard to the brakes. How about the overall outlook of the new red?
Is it as good as the pictures?


----------



## Vee

My apologies on the brake changes from 7800 to 7900. I was unaware of this change.


----------



## cxwrench

Sisbud said:


> That is great to hear in regard to the brakes. How about the overall outlook of the new red?
> Is it as good as the pictures?


it looks really nice. the shifters have a slightly different feel, the paddles are longer too, as we've seen. the chainrings look really stout. front derailleur looks like it will work much better than previous model, and the chain catcher is pretty trick. better design on the rear derailleur from a mechanics point of view. brakes are very cool, very easy to see how they work when you have it in your hand. the new cassette is obviously pretty cool as well, should be somewhat quieter when shifting.


----------



## Vee

cxwrench said:


> it looks really nice. the shifters have a slightly different feel, the paddles are longer too, as we've seen. the chainrings look really stout. front derailleur looks like it will work much better than previous model, and the chain catcher is pretty trick. better design on the rear derailleur from a mechanics point of view. brakes are very cool, very easy to see how they work when you have it in your hand. the new cassette is obviously pretty cool as well, should be somewhat quieter when shifting.


They actually redesigned the rear derailleur, too? It was beginning to look like just a graphics change on the RD.


----------



## Sisbud

cxwrench said:


> it looks really nice. the shifters have a slightly different feel, the paddles are longer too, as we've seen. the chainrings look really stout. front derailleur looks like it will work much better than previous model, and the chain catcher is pretty trick. better design on the rear derailleur from a mechanics point of view. brakes are very cool, very easy to see how they work when you have it in your hand. the new cassette is obviously pretty cool as well, should be somewhat quieter when shifting.


Thank you for the info. You have gotten me very excited in getting the new sram red.


----------



## flatsix911

Here are a few more photos of the new SRAM Red 2nd Generation group-set :thumbsup:


----------



## Sisbud

Now, that is sexy


----------



## robdamanii

Those shifters look damn good.

Two things I'm waiting for though:
Confirmation that it will function with the older model front derailleurs
White hoods.


----------



## todayilearned

The new hoods look pretty comfortable.


----------



## EightOhEight

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm sweet


----------



## tpallsport

I am interested to know if there will be any options in the new XG cassette other than an 11 tooth low. I want to order this group with a 52 x 38 Crankset and would hope they would have the following cassettes available, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 21, 23, 26 for my profile wheels and a 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 22, 25, 28 for my mountain wheels. I'm not interested in using a compact crankset and if only 11 low, I will be likely to go Record although with new freehub bodies will likely cost $400 more.


----------



## MarvinK

robdamanii said:


> Those shifters look damn good.
> 
> Two things I'm waiting for though:
> Confirmation that it will function with the older model front derailleurs
> White hoods.


Why wouldn't you just replace the front derailleur!? That seems like the biggest upgrade of the whole system... not to mention the cheapest.


----------



## robdamanii

MarvinK said:


> Why wouldn't you just replace the front derailleur!? That seems like the biggest upgrade of the whole system... not to mention the cheapest.


To be perfectly honest, I really dislike the "SRAM" branding all over the cage. 

That, and I don't really have much of a problem with my current FD anyway...


----------



## MarvinK

Yea, I can see that about the cage... although most of the SRAM styling is loud (not just FD). In any case, seems like the biggest and cheapest performance would be hard to pass up. Removing trim would be nice, too.


----------



## cxwrench

tpallsport said:


> I am interested to know if there will be any options in the new XG cassette other than an 11 tooth low. I want to order this group with a 52 x 38 Crankset and would hope they would have the following cassettes available, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 21, 23, 26 for my profile wheels and a 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 22, 25, 28 for my mountain wheels. I'm not interested in using a compact crankset and if only 11 low, I will be likely to go Record although with new freehub bodies will likely cost $400 more.


hmmmm, nothing about the options on the SRAM site. QBP will offer 11-23, 11-25, 11-26 and 11-28. doesn't look like anything starting w/ a 12. sort of understandable as it's a 'race' group.


----------



## robdamanii

MarvinK said:


> Yea, I can see that about the cage... although most of the SRAM styling is loud (not just FD). In any case, seems like the biggest and cheapest performance would be hard to pass up. Removing trim would be nice, too.


I never really minded the trim, and my front shifting is working just fine. I suppose if worst comes to worst, it's only another $100ish add on, but the shifters are what I really want to get my hands on.


----------



## tpallsport

Thanks for the reply, I saw the new QBP catalog as well. I'm sure the force cassettes will work just fine, but the point of a new group is well...


----------



## tpallsport

The Competitive Cyclist site shows the group will arive around the end of March (hopefully). There are PG1070 cassettes in 12,13,14,15,16,17,19, 21, 23, 26 & 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 22, 25, 28 ranges for 2012. I'm delighted to hear this and look forward to going with the new group with these cassettes on my profile and clasic wheelsets respectively and the new crankset in 52 x 38. Outstanding news!


----------



## swuzzlebubble

> From what the guys at SRAM are telling me, Australia is the first market in the world where the new 2012 Red groupset has landed. Yesterday I had the chance to watch the guys at Bike Gallery to build up a new BMC Team Machine SLR01 and took it out for a short spin.


Bikes Of The Bunch | New SRAM RED On BMC SLR01 | Cycling Tips


----------



## flatsix911

swuzzlebubble said:


> Bikes Of The Bunch | New SRAM RED On BMC SLR01 | Cycling Tips


Well done :thumbsup:


----------



## andrewbell

So are we saying that the new brake arches will be compatible with the 2011 shifters?


----------



## MarvinK

seems like the brakes would be an odd thing to upgrade first.... do you really have issues with the old Red brakes? They work GREAT for me.


----------



## andrewbell

if i had red brakes i would agree, but i am currently running force brakes.


----------



## cxwrench

my bike is Red except for the Force brakes. do you really think they're gonna be that much better? are you using Zipp 303's or another reallllllyyyy wide rim? my Force brakes work great, i've never seen the need for Red, and i could have put them on at any time over the last 3 years, for free.


----------



## cwdzoot

I just got my shippment of the new Red groups and have two groups not accounted for. 


170 53/39 GXP with braze on FD and 11-25 cassette
172.5mm GXP with Braze on FD and 11-25 cassette.

PM me if you are looking.


----------



## Bluffplace

I have an opportunity to purchase the new SRAM Red for 25% off. 

I currently have a SRAM Red 52/36 BB30 crankset. I was told that compact BB30 will be available in Sept.

I actually have never ridden a bike with a 53/39. I am not sure if its going to be too big for me. 

If I go with a gxp compact crank. I can get a wheel MFG adapter, but the crank is 50/34. I will need to purchase the 52/36 chainrings, but no one knows when that will be available.

Sram is saying that their new FD only works with the new crank. Is this marketing hype so that they get you to buy the crank also? 

My parts should be arriving on Thurs. I'm thinking of connecting the left shifter and the FD and see if I can switch between big/little chainrings.


----------



## robdamanii

cxwrench said:


> it will work. SRAM is recommending the new front derailleur be used w/ the new crankset for 'optimal' performance. trust me...it will work w/ your old crank. think about it...the new red uses the same chain as the current red, how different can it be? the answer is 'not much'.


How about the new shifters with other derailleurs?


----------



## cxwrench

it will work. SRAM is recommending the new front derailleur be used w/ the new crankset for 'optimal' performance. trust me...it will work w/ your old crank. think about it...the new red uses the same chain as the current red, how different can it be? the answer is 'not much'.


----------



## Bluffplace

In the weight weenies forum, there was a mention of the chain coming off when it on the small cog and big chain ring. There is also talk about the spacing between the large and small chainrings. It is 1.4mm wider spacing. 

I'll set it up on Saturday and go from there


----------



## Vee

Bluffplace said:


> In the weight weenies forum, there was a mention of the chain coming off when it on the small cog and big chain ring. There is also talk about the spacing between the large and small chainrings. It is 1.4mm wider spacing.
> 
> I'll set it up on Saturday and go from there


1.4mm of additional spacing between the two chainrings shouldnt be an issue. The front derailleur travels from one limit to the next (high to low) on a double, so as long as your limits are set, cable tension should be tweakable to make it work just fine. IN THEORY.


----------



## gamara

Seems like of the pro teams that have finally got their hands on the new Red only a few of the team leaders have them. On Omega, only Tomeke & Levi have it on their bikes. Liquigas is still on the last gen. Boonen was first spotted using it at Omloop. Here's Levi at Paris-Nice:


----------



## robdamanii

gamara said:


> Seems like of the pro teams that have finally got their hands on the new Red only a few of the team leaders have them. On Omega, only Tomeke & Levi have it on their bikes. Liquigas is still on the last gen. Boonen was first spotted using it at Omloop. Here's Levi at Paris-Nice:


Interesting to note that he's using what appears to be previous generation Red black rings on a Specialized/Quarq. Front shifting must not be that bad with the old setup.


----------



## Vee

robdamanii said:


> Interesting to note that he's using what appears to be previous generation Red black rings on a Specialized/Quarq. Front shifting must not be that bad with the old setup.


That is actually the old quarq. The new quarq is out, but its very limited at the moment. I would be willing to bet that Quarq handles that piece rather than Sram, and that is why he has the old one still.


----------



## robdamanii

Vee said:


> That is actually the old quarq. The new quarq is out, but its very limited at the moment. I would be willing to bet that Quarq handles that piece rather than Sram, and that is why he has the old one still.


I wouldn't be surprised either way.

The thing that I find interesting is that he's using the new Red with an older crankset (which SRAM claims is "incompatible") and obviously it's working just fine.


----------



## gamara

robdamanii said:


> I wouldn't be surprised either way.
> 
> The thing that I find interesting is that he's using the new Red with an older crankset (which SRAM claims is "incompatible") and obviously it's working just fine.


I thought that Sram's wording was that it wouldn't be optimal. The new Red is supposedly an integrated system but I bet you that if you'd switch out the Red crank with something else that is equally stiff ie. Dura Ace's it would probably work just as well.


----------



## robdamanii

gamara said:


> I thought that Sram's wording was that it wouldn't be optimal. The new Red is supposedly an integrated system but I bet you that if you'd switch out the Red crank with something else that is equally stiff ie. Dura Ace's it would probably work just as well.


I think "not optimal" is their unofficial stance. I don't recall the wording on their compatibility chart, but it seems like they're trying to say it won't play with other systems because of the 1.4mm increase in tooth spacing.

Really, I just can't fathom how it wouldn't work. As long as the derailleur moves, it should work fine.


----------



## ph0enix

gamara said:


> I thought that Sram's wording was that it wouldn't be optimal. The new Red is supposedly an integrated system but I bet you that if you'd switch out the Red crank with something else that is equally stiff ie. Dura Ace's it would probably work just as well.


Here is SRAM's exact wording


----------



## deviousalex

robdamanii said:


> I think "not optimal" is their unofficial stance. I don't recall the wording on their compatibility chart, but it seems like they're trying to say it won't play with other systems because of the 1.4mm increase in tooth spacing.
> 
> Really, I just can't fathom how it wouldn't work. As long as the derailleur moves, it should work fine.



How can they change the tooth spacing without changing the chain link size?


----------



## robdamanii

deviousalex said:


> How can they change the tooth spacing without changing the chain link size?


My fault: not tooth spacing between teeth on the same chainring, but tooth spacing laterally between the big and small rings.

Supposedly (and this is what I've read) the teeth are the same distance apart on the ring (no change in chain length.) The rings are thicker (width) with more pronounced ramps and pins, therefore the actual teeth line up 1.4mm further apart laterally.


----------



## englandet

Just out of curiosity has anyone weighed the new red chainrings in either standard or compact/


----------



## [email protected]

That's interesting....Tom Boonen rides new shifters with old front derailleur:

Imagedesk | TDWSPORT.COM


----------



## Bluffplace

englandet said:


> Just out of curiosity has anyone weighed the new red chainrings in either standard or compact/


From Velo News:

Old Red:
Shifters: 319g
Crankset: 662g (BB30)
Bottom bracket: 53g
Front derailleur: 72g
Rear derailleur: 143g
Cassette: 165g
Brakeset: 270g
Chain: 255g

2012 Red:
Shifters: 280 grams/pair (-39g)
Crankset: 557 grams w/BB30, 172.5mm, 53×39; 609g GXP (-105g)
Bottom bracket: 53 grams (BB30); 105g (GXP) (No change)
Front derailleur: 74 grams (braze on); plus 12g chain spotter (+2g, +14 w/chain spotter)
Rear derailleur: 145 grams (+2g)
Cassette: 135 grams (11-23t) (-30g)
Brakeset: 240 grams/pair (-30g)
Chain: 255 grams (114 links) (No change)


----------



## englandet

Thanks for the comparison weights. I had seen those but I was hoping someone had taken the new rings off the crankset and weighed them separately.


----------



## gamara

[email protected] said:


> That's interesting....Tom Boonen rides new shifters with old front derailleur:
> 
> Imagedesk | TDWSPORT.COM


That's why I don't buy that BS line about incompatibility from Sram. When they did the big Red launch in Spain, everyone asked about backwards compatibility. The Sram reps said no even though the lever pull is unchanged, but when they were pressed further for an answer they said they it wouldn't be "optimal"?

Plus you have many teams that have different component suppliers. Liquigas for example uses FSA cranks. So when they finally get the new Red, does that mean that its not compatible or is it not optimal?


----------



## Bluffplace

I found this on slowtwitch..


2012 RED YAW is a designed as a system and when all installed together (chainrings, front derailleur, shifters) you will get awesome front shifting. You can try mix-and-matching with 2011 parts but it will be somewhat less awesome. 

Jim 

James Meyer 
Quarq Technology, Inc


----------



## GONE4ARIDE

Bluffplace said:


> I found this on slowtwitch..
> 
> 
> 2012 RED YAW is a designed as a system and when all installed together (chainrings, front derailleur, shifters) you will get awesome front shifting. You can try mix-and-matching with 2011 parts but it will be somewhat less awesome.
> 
> Jim
> 
> James Meyer
> Quarq Technology, Inc


Jim at Quarq was responding to my question on ST when he gave the above response.

I just received my new Red group yesterday minus crankset since I plan to use my Quarq Sram S975 PM/crankset for the time being on my new frameset. 

I should have the bike built up by next weekend and will report back on the quality of the front shifting when not using the new Red cranks (or chainrings).


----------



## Bluffplace

I was able to install the 2012 SRAM Red on Saturday and rode on Sunday. I installed the brakes, shifters, front and read derailleurs. 

I have to say those new brakes are great. I have a set of Zipps 101 and the pads on the brakes were not working for me so I switched over to Kool Stops and it was an improvement. But these new brakes are even better. I was doing 40+ on a descent and decided to hit the brakes when I got to the bottom of the hill. I was very impressed. I also have a set of 404 firecrest. I am going to switch over to the cork pad and see how the feel. I have a friend that has dura ace brakes and after testing these brakes, he is going to swap them out for the SRAMs

Rear shifting. Cassette is a SRAM Force and KMC 10SL chain. Shifting up and down the cassette was easily and I felt it was a little quicker. Not a lot of effort was needed to shift. 

Front Shifting. I was a little concerned that I would have problems with front shifting since I was not using the new crankset. Of course, I did not read the install guide, but who does. I just made sure the teeth of the top chainring was lined up with the inside marker of the derailleur. I then adjusted the high/low screws. On the repair stand, I went up and down the cassette, while shifting the between the chains. There was a light chain rub when I was 52/27. I’ll go back and read install guide and adjust. On the road, I felt there was an improvement in chainring shifting than the ‘old’ SRAM. A few times I had to look down when I switched from the large chainring to the small one. It felt like the chain fell off. When I looked down, the chain was on the small chainring. When I shift up to the large chainring, I am so use to holding the shifter in for a second. I’ll try to break this habit and see if just pushing the lever in does the trick. Every time when I look down, I was on the large chainring and kept saying to myself, OK let the lever go. I’ll do some more small to large chainring shifting, especially under load and pressure on the pedals.

The shifters itself are comfortable. On my previous shifters, I had to adjust the reach. Right out of the box, they fit my hand, no adjustments necessary. Maybe it’s because they stick out a lot. There is a notable difference when comparing them to the ‘old’ shifters. I was actually thinking in an accident, they may just actually off.

Overall, I think it was worth it. My current Red crank works with the 2012 stuff. Is it less optimal without the new crank? I have no idea; I am not at that level to distinguish this. Did I notice an improvement in front shifting, yes. Drive train was quietier

I still have the old parts in which I’ll ebay them to recoup some of the money that was spent on the 2012 stuff.


----------



## Dan Gerous

gamara said:


> That's why I don't buy that BS line about incompatibility from Sram. When they did the big Red launch in Spain, everyone asked about backwards compatibility. The Sram reps said no even though the lever pull is unchanged, but when they were pressed further for an answer they said they it wouldn't be "optimal"?
> 
> Plus you have many teams that have different component suppliers. Liquigas for example uses FSA cranks. So when they finally get the new Red, does that mean that its not compatible or is it not optimal?


Apparently, the new Red cranks have a slightly different chainring spacing... This a fact but how much incompatibility it creates or doesn't create may be BS. I heard it makes it harder to have no chain rub on the extreme cross chain gear combos.

Liquigas are not on FSA but on Cannondale cranksets with SRAM chainrings... but I see your point.. I know Ivan Basso is now on the new Red but I didn't notice what chainrings he had.


----------



## ph0enix

englandet said:


> Thanks for the comparison weights. I had seen those but I was hoping someone had taken the new rings off the crankset and weighed them separately.


557g is the exact claimed weight of the BB30 crankset posted on sram.com so I'm not sure Velonews actually weighed the parts. According to SRAM, the old crankset in BB30 weighs 630g.


----------



## veloci1

Bluffplace, thank you for the review. please, let us know about the front chain rub when in the 52/27 set up. i have the 2012 front der and shifters. i was planning on installing them today. i have Cannondale Hollogram cranks that i will not change for anything. so, if the new SRAM does not have a trim option and there is chain rub without their cranks, i will be taking the 2012 Shifters and front Der back before i install them. 

i know is not optimum to be in such set up (52/27) but, none the less it happens sometimes. i have a 11/25 50/34 set up. so, i am sure if you experienced rub on the 52/27, i will too on the 50/25.


----------



## flatsix911

Here is a series of video reviews on the SRAM Red 2nd Generation Group

competitivecyclist's Channel - YouTube

SRAM Red 2nd Generation Shift Levers - YouTube


----------



## Bluffplace

veloci1 said:


> Bluffplace, thank you for the review. please, let us know about the front chain rub when in the 52/27 set up. i have the 2012 front der and shifters. i was planning on installing them today. i have Cannondale Hollogram cranks that i will not change for anything. so, if the new SRAM does not have a trim option and there is chain rub without their cranks, i will be taking the 2012 Shifters and front Der back before i install them.
> 
> i know is not optimum to be in such set up (52/27) but, none the less it happens sometimes. i have a 11/25 50/34 set up. so, i am sure if you experienced rub on the 52/27, i will too on the 50/25.



Hey Veloci,

It was a slight chain rub. A little adjustment with the barrel adjuster and all is well. No chain rub. On the SRAM site, they have an 8 minute video on installing the derailluers. For my own sanity, I'm going to look at that just to make sure everything is OK.

I dont think you will have a problem with the hollogram. Shimano even said that their Dura-Ace Di2 would only work on Shimano cranks.

If you decide not to install the shifters and derailluers, get the brakes. They are incredible.

Oh btw, my lbs had the Giant TCR with Ultegra DI-2. I took it for a 15 minute ride. Its pretty cool the way the the front derailluer automatically moves when just shifting the rear derailluer. But, shifting is not as quick as the 2012 Red.


----------



## Sisbud

Are there anymore fortunate people who has gotten their hands on the new sram red?
Please tell us your impressions so far. Thanks


----------



## MarvinK

From what I've read, you're more likely to rub in small/small (ex:34x11) than big/big combo when mixing new and old.


----------



## AnthonyL88

Anybody recently received their new Sram Red group and order it with the compact crank? I'm still waiting for my Red Group with the compact crank.


----------



## MarvinK

I'm pretty sure I've read a couple places that compact crank wasn't due until May.


----------



## cxwrench

AnthonyL88 said:


> Anybody recently received their new Sram Red group and order it with the compact crank? I'm still waiting for my Red Group with the compact crank.


you're going to be waiting for a while...sometime in may as others have posted.


----------



## veloci1

Here is my feedback after my first 50 miles on my 2013 SRAM Red shifter and front der set up. I thought it was the worst set up ever. After only 10 miles the chain rubbed on almost every combination. So, I was ready to get to the LBS and ask for a refund and just upgrade to Di2. I knew something was not right because it did not make any sense that the chain did not rub on only a few combo ratios. We found out that the Front der was left lose by the mechanic and it moved while i was riding. But, it took almost 2 hours for the mechanic to get the shifting to work.
As mentioned by someone earlier here, the 34/11 does not work no matter what you do. Understanding that you should not cross chain that way. But, sadly to say, the Di2 does not have that issue. I am torn now on whether or not this change to the new SRAM was worth it.
I am seriously thinking about going Di2. If someone is interested on e new set of shifters and front der SRAM 2013, e-mail me. If not, I might work with the LBS and see if I can return them and get credit towards the Di2.


----------



## ultimobici

veloci1 said:


> Here is my feedback after my first 50 miles on my 2013 SRAM Red shifter and front der set up. I thought it was the worst set up ever. After only 10 miles the chain rubbed on almost every combination. So, I was ready to get to the LBS and ask for a refund and just upgrade to Di2. I knew something was not right because it did not make any sense that the chain did not rub on only a few combo ratios. We found out that the Front der was left lose by the mechanic and it moved while i was riding. But, it took almost 2 hours for the mechanic to get the shifting to work.
> As mentioned by someone earlier here, the 34/11 does not work no matter what you do. Understanding that you should not cross chain that way. But, sadly to say, the Di2 does not have that issue. I am torn now on whether or not this change to the new SRAM was worth it.
> I am seriously thinking about going Di2. If someone is interested on e new set of shifters and front der SRAM 2013, e-mail me. If not, I might work with the LBS and see if I can return them and get credit towards the Di2.


Sounds like the "mechanic" needs to find a new career.

WRT the 34x11 rubbing, 9 times out of 10 it's not the mech rubbing but the chain catching the pickup teeth on the outer ring. The shorter the stays the more likely it will occur.


----------



## BunnV

ultimobici said:


> Sounds like the "mechanic" needs to find a new career


Agreed. I wonder if the the fact that he used the Cannondale crankset proves that SRAM is serious when the say the new derailleur is only compatible with the new Red crank. I've watched set up videos for the new group and the relationship between the Red crank and Red front derailleur seem pretty specific.


----------



## Bluffplace

ultimobici said:


> Sounds like the "mechanic" needs to find a new career.
> 
> WRT the 34x11 rubbing, 9 times out of 10 it's not the mech rubbing but the chain catching the pickup teeth on the outer ring. The shorter the stays the more likely it will occur.


+1 on the mechanic finding a new career.

I've got about 120miles of outside riding and have no problems shifting.

I just tried my 36 - 12 gearing. I get a slight rubbing. I thought about pulling out the screw driver and try to adjust, but I'm never in that gear combo and did not want to bother adjusting. 

If your going with Di-2, go with Dura-Ace. I found Ultegra Di-2 shifting is slow and the RD is big.


----------



## cxwrench

Bluffplace said:


> +1 on the mechanic finding a new career.
> 
> I've got about 120miles of outside riding and have no problems shifting.
> 
> I just tried my 36 - 12 gearing. I get a slight rubbing. *I thought about pulling out the screw driver and try to adjust,* but I'm never in that gear combo and did not want to bother adjusting.
> 
> If your going with Di-2, go with Dura-Ace. I found Ultegra Di-2 shifting is slow and the RD is big.


what can you adjust w/ a screwdriver that will prevent the chain rubbing the cage, or anything else, when in the 36/12? you know that adjusting the high limit on the front derailleur won't do anything for that problem, right?


----------



## MarvinK

If you dont like it and dont want a new crank... sell the stuff and wait for 11spd 2nd generation Shimano electronic in the fall.


----------



## veloci1

I am assuming that since this was only the second bike the shop has put together with the new SRAM RED, there might be a learning curve .
The mechanic followed the instructions from SRAM. There is a bullet point that indicates that there should be a little rubbing between the chain and the front der when in the 34/25 position while on the stand. It says that once on the road the pressure from pedaling will take care of any possible rubbing.

We will see. I really like my Hollogram cranks and I am not willing to change cranks for the sake of the new SRAM.

I am hoping to get full credit and go Di2.

I will let you know.
Btw, the ergonomics of the shifters is much improved.


----------



## -dustin

Mechanic messed up. You guys do your jobs 100% all day every day, right?

New Red is legit. I'm impressed. Most impressed with the brakes, though the feel of the front shift is much, much better than I expected. 

34/11 is a stupid combo to be riding, anyway. Need proof? Google "Andy Schleck chain drop".


----------



## vagabondcyclist

Velo News did a bit of test on SRAM Red for backwards compatibility. They found that SRAM Red works fairly well with other parts, more or less. 

Sounds like your mechanic needs to 1) learn to tighten parts before sending the bike out to the customer and 2) learn to set up SRAM Red.


----------



## Dan Gerous

-dustin said:


> 34/11 is a stupid combo to be riding, anyway. Need proof? Google "Andy Schleck chain drop".


Agreed. If you use that combo, maybe you should be riding a singlespeed. A rub in small/small should be seen as a built-in warning signal in case you accidentally end up in that combo (how I don't know...), it means 'use your big ring fool!'


----------



## andrewbell

how much better are the 2013 brakes over the 2010?


----------



## Yamabushi

My CAAD10 is currently sporting Dura-Ace components except for Ultegra brakes and crankset which is a full size Cannondale Carbon SI. I live in Japan and mostly ride mountains so I'm interested in moving to a compact crankset. While I'd love to have the Hollowgram cranks, unfortunately they carry a pretty hefty price here. With all that in mind, I am very interested in the new Red Exogram BB30 compact cranks. They should offer comparable performance and weight to the Hollowgrams at about 60% of the price. So here are my questions:



Will the new Red crankset play well using SRAMS chainrings with Dura-Ace derailleurs and chain?
Will the new Red crankset play well with Shimano chainrings, Dura-Ace chain and derailleurs?

Thank you in advance for your feedback!


----------



## Bluffplace

Your interested in moving to a compact crank. So I am going to assume you have a standard crank. A standard crank 53/39 has a 130 bcd. The compacts or mid compacts have a 110 bcd. If your looking to swap out chainrings between a standard and compact that is not going to work.

The new SRAM Red Exogram, BB30 compact is not yet available. If you follow the 110/130 bcd as I previously mentioned, you can use DA chainrings on Red. I personally think it will terrible and does not make sense, You can also mix Shimano/SRAM components.

I see nothing wrong with your setup. How long and steept are the hills? Maybe the engine need work. But, If your bent on getting a Hollowgram crank, I'd say, sell your DA crank and use that money to help offset the price of the Cannondale crank.


----------



## Yamabushi

Bluffplace said:


> Your interested in moving to a compact crank. So I am going to assume you have a standard crank. A standard crank 53/39 has a 130 bcd. The compacts or mid compacts have a 110 bcd. If your looking to swap out chainrings between a standard and compact that is not going to work.
> 
> The new SRAM Red Exogram, BB30 compact is not yet available. If you follow the 110/130 bcd as I previously mentioned, you can use DA chainrings on Red. I personally think it will terrible and does not make sense, You can also mix Shimano/SRAM components.
> 
> I see nothing wrong with your setup. How long and steept are the hills? Maybe the engine need work. But, If your bent on getting a Hollowgram crank, I'd say, sell your DA crank and use that money to help offset the price of the Cannondale crank.


Thank you for attempting to answer my questions. I am fully aware of the difference between 110BCD and 130BCD and know that chainrings aren't swappable between the two different bolt circle diameters. Additionally, I am not using a DA crank. As I explained in my earlier post, I am currently running a 130BCD Cannondale Carbon SI BB30 crank. What I am asking about is using non SRAM 110BCD chainrings on the new SRAM 110BCD Exogram crank. Other than the pin that prevents the chain from dropping between the big chainring and crank arm most likely not lining up, are there any other significant issues?

As for the climbs here, 15 to 25 kilometer climbs are not uncommon, as are extended sections of 10% grades. FYI, there are plenty of 15-25% sections to be had on various climbs as well. There is serious climbing to be done here! And frankly, I haven't had anything I haven't been able to climb, it's just that in some of the steeper areas it's tough to stay over top of the gear and maintain an optimal cadence. For the record. all the top riders here are riding compact. I ride with a pretty elite group and have a very good understanding of gear ratios. A compact would allow me to maintain a better gear ratio and would definitely reduce my times on major ascents here, thus my interest in exploring the compact option.

So I'd like to repeat my questions, I know they should function, but how well?


Will the new Red crankset play well using SRAMS chainrings with Dura-Ace derailleurs and chain?
Will the new Red crankset play well with Shimano chainrings, Dura-Ace chain and derailleurs?


----------



## mimason

Why not consider 2011 or earlier Red compact crank with Praxis rings? This is my setup and it has made a world of improvement over Red rings which are flexy.


----------



## Yamabushi

mimason said:


> Why not consider 2011 or earlier Red compact crank with Praxis rings? This is my setup and it has made a world of improvement over Red rings which are flexy.


Thank you for the suggestion. I've considered that, but would like to be well informed and learn all I can about the new 2012 Exograms before making a decision, thus my questions. Can anyone directly address them?


----------



## Bluffplace

Will the new Red crankset play well using SRAMS chainrings with Dura-Ace derailleurs and chain? 

Yes, it will work. You will be able to shift up/down the cassette and between chainrings. How well? This is relative. What one person may notice, the other may not. Also depends on how your FD is adjusted.

Will the new Red crankset play well with Shimano chainrings, Dura-Ace chain and derailleurs? 

In theory, it should work because the basic fundamentals of the FD is too move the chain from one chainring sprocket to another. But I never have seen any Red crankset with a Shimano chainring. Then again, back in the days as a little kid growing up in The Bronx, we built and rode bikes from the pieces we found. aaahhh, those were the days.

Try it out and let us know if the Red crankset with Shimano chainrings work.


----------



## robdamanii

Bluffplace said:


> Will the new Red crankset play well using SRAMS chainrings with Dura-Ace derailleurs and chain?
> 
> Yes, it will work. You will be able to shift up/down the cassette and between chainrings. How well? This is relative. What one person may notice, the other may not. Also depends on how your FD is adjusted.
> 
> Will the new Red crankset play well with Shimano chainrings, Dura-Ace chain and derailleurs?
> 
> In theory, it should work because the basic fundamentals of the FD is too move the chain from one chainring sprocket to another. But I never have seen any Red crankset with a Shimano chainring. Then again, back in the days as a little kid growing up in The Bronx, we built and rode bikes from the pieces we found. aaahhh, those were the days.
> 
> Try it out and let us know if the Red crankset with Shimano chainrings work.


Supposedly the new red crank will not work with any other chainrings because the ramps/pins will be incorrectly clocked. Then there's an issue of even being able to bolt them up, which is iffy at best.


----------



## Bluffplace

I didn't even think of the ramps/pins.

Those hollowgram cranks are expensive.

Save about 500 bucks, add about 100grams and go with a Shimano compact crank? Its not BB30, but a $30 adapter from Wheels MFG will fix that.


----------



## ramkitty

I have not seen much for ride reports on the new red.. I am considering the motobecane ti le champ


----------



## BunnV

I got some of my group in today. The crankset won't be available until the end of May! 

That's the bad news, the good news is every part looks fantastic and they are all very light weight. I love it!


----------



## pedalingsquares

*Loving the new Sram Red*

I recently installed the New Red.. bear in mind I am not the best writer.
The shifters have a nicer feel to them, the shifts are more positive a a smoother action. The up shift is quicker and a better feel.
The brakes are a HUGE improvement and would say they are 180 degrees from the previous brakes.
The front derailleur is definitely buttery. On pace with Dura Ace and if it had just the button.. on pace with Di2. I am waiting for the Red BB30 crank, but shifting with the Hollowgram and Red rings is SOOOOO smooth.
When I get the crank I will update to see if that is any improvement. I can say I enjoy the new Red group so much, it is hard to get off the bike.:23:

*If the stem police are out in force, please take a break on this one.*


----------



## robdamanii

Hot, hot, hot! 

Sexy hot!


----------



## Dan Gerous

pedalingsquares said:


> I recently installed the New Red.. bear in mind I am not the best writer.
> The shifters have a nicer feel to them, the shifts are more positive a a smoother action. The up shift is quicker and a better feel.
> The brakes are a HUGE improvement and would say they are 180 degrees from the previous brakes.
> The front derailleur is definitely buttery. On pace with Dura Ace and if it had just the button.. on pace with Di2. I am waiting for the Red BB30 crank, but shifting with the Hollowgram and Red rings is SOOOOO smooth.
> When I get the crank I will update to see if that is any improvement. I can say I enjoy the new Red group so much, it is hard to get off the bike.:23:
> 
> *If the stem police are out in force, please take a break on this one.*


Very nice! I'd keep the Hollowgrams though... Heard SRAM would eventually make new Red chainrings but for normal BCD cranksets, not sure if these will be for pro teams only but QuickStep are waiting for them, Liquigas too so they can continue using their respective cranksets...


----------



## Tswifty

pedalingsquares said:


> I recently installed the New Red.. bear in mind I am not the best writer.
> The shifters have a nicer feel to them, the shifts are more positive a a smoother action. The up shift is quicker and a better feel.
> The brakes are a HUGE improvement and would say they are 180 degrees from the previous brakes.
> The front derailleur is definitely buttery. On pace with Dura Ace and if it had just the button.. on pace with Di2. I am waiting for the Red BB30 crank, but shifting with the Hollowgram and Red rings is SOOOOO smooth.
> When I get the crank I will update to see if that is any improvement. I can say I enjoy the new Red group so much, it is hard to get off the bike.:23:
> 
> *If the stem police are out in force, please take a break on this one.*


Stem police totally are  But i like the new looking red so no issues


----------



## jl88s

I need your help fellas. I've searched around and can't find anything about this topic..

I'm currently building my first roadie with Sram RED 2011 groupset, Sram Force FD, but without the cranks. So I'm wondering if the new Sram RED 2012-2013 crankset would be compatible with the group I plan on running. 

According to this, the new Sram RED crankset is only compatible with the new RED groupo. I can't see why you wouldn't be able to use the new cranks with the old red group. 

https://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdn...lity-chart.jpg


----------



## pedalingsquares

*Sram*

No problem your new Red crank will work with the old derailleur. The new front derailleur will even work with and crankset. Have fun.


----------



## Yamabushi

pedalingsquares, just curious, have you been able to reduce that tower of spacers yet?


----------



## pkucera

*2013 Fixed 2012 FD Issue (Red)*

65 miles and 2 adjustments later, was still losing chain off crank on new 2012 Cannondale Synapse Hi-Mod 2 Red, with '11-'12 Red group. FD has titanium cage. Replaced it with '12-'13 Red FD, and now it works like a champ.

Two different LBS's told me some riders using '11-'12 Red FD are "downgrading" to the Force FD cage. Heavier, but stiffer. Seems to fix shifting issues that some folks are having with the titanium.


----------



## cxwrench

pkucera said:


> 65 miles and 2 adjustments later, was still losing chain off crank on new 2012 Cannondale Synapse Hi-Mod 2 Red, with '11-'12 Red group. FD has titanium cage. Replaced it with '12-'13 Red FD, and now it works like a champ.
> 
> Two different LBS's told me some riders using '11-'12 Red FD are "downgrading" to the Force FD cage. Heavier, but stiffer. Seems to fix shifting issues that some folks are having with the titanium.


Pro teams have had the option of ordering a part called 'Red front derailleur, steel cage' for the last couple of years. nearly all do this rather than use the Ti cage model. some teams (pro tour level, mainly) that have received '12 Red parts are using the '11 Red steel cage front derailleur (or at least they were before and up to the TdF). the steel cage derailleur is definitely better than the first Ti cage Red derailleur. the 'new' '12 YAW derailleur is better than the steel cage part. 

the proper model year designations work like this:
'old' Red is 2011
'new' Red is 2012


----------



## davidka

Yamabushi said:


> My CAAD10 is currently sporting Dura-Ace components except for Ultegra brakes and crankset which is a full size Cannondale Carbon SI. I live in Japan and mostly ride mountains so I'm interested in moving to a compact crankset. While I'd love to have the Hollowgram cranks, unfortunately they carry a pretty hefty price here. With all that in mind, I am very interested in the new Red Exogram BB30 compact cranks. They should offer comparable performance and weight to the Hollowgrams at about 60% of the price. So here are my questions:
> 
> 
> 
> Will the new Red crankset play well using SRAMS chainrings with Dura-Ace derailleurs and chain?
> Will the new Red crankset play well with Shimano chainrings, Dura-Ace chain and derailleurs?
> 
> Thank you in advance for your feedback!


I have used a SRAM Rival crank on an otherwise Shimano D/A bike and it shifted very well, the derailleur did not notice the difference (took off the D/A crank, put on the Rival, no adjustment). Have no worries about 10 speed cross compatibility. 

What are you running for a cogset? If you're not already there, you could use a 12-28 or even a 12-30 (shimano) with your 39/53. You could also get one of the new SRAM rear WiFli derailleurs that will work with an 11-32 but if you're at all like me, you will find the gaps between gears maddening.


----------



## Yamabushi

davidka said:


> I have used a SRAM Rival crank on an otherwise Shimano D/A bike and it shifted very well, the derailleur did not notice the difference (took off the D/A crank, put on the Rival, no adjustment). Have no worries about 10 speed cross compatibility.
> 
> What are you running for a cogset? If you're not already there, you could use a 12-28 or even a 12-30 (shimano) with your 39/53. You could also get one of the new SRAM rear WiFli derailleurs that will work with an 11-32 but if you're at all like me, you will find the gaps between gears maddening.


I'm running a 12-28 cassette and am very happy with it. That being said, the big news is that I may be getting a set of Hollowgram cranks this afternoon!! I'm really stoked!


----------



## Wadl

Yamabushi said:


> I'm running a 12-28 cassette and am very happy with it. That being said, the big news is that I may be getting a set of Hollowgram cranks this afternoon!! I'm really stoked!


It will work very well, if you want, go look at this page:
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=103730

I was planing on changing my 7800 crankset (on my full 7800 bike) for a compact with a 12-23 cassette (ok, in the mean time I almost pull the plug on a complete Chorus group but the madness stopped...)

So now, I think the best thing to do, after reading the ww thread, that il will be RED 2012 crank with Stronglight ring.

From what I read, everything should work fine ! (and I should loose close to 175-200 gr. (that's a lot!!!))


----------



## Yamabushi

As a quick follow-up, I was able to get the Hollowgram 172.5mm cranks setup with the compact spider and FSA 50-34 rings. I've ridden and climbed with them extensively the last two weekends and I am extremely happy! :thumbsup:


----------



## Wadl

Yamabushi said:


> As a quick follow-up, I was able to get the Hollowgram 172.5mm cranks setup with the compact spider and FSA 50-34 rings. I've ridden and climbed with them extensively the last two weekends and I am extremely happy! :thumbsup:


and on your bike, everything is dura-ace ? (7900 or 7800)

I just want to make sure I wont buy to fast (don't want to miss great Christmas price for example) and if I don't get any answer today, well tonight, I'm buying the standard compact 172.5 too !!

391$, you think it might get lower soon ? or I should just go and buy it right now ?


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## Yamabushi

Wadl said:


> and on your bike, everything is dura-ace ? (7900 or 7800)


Shifters and derailleurs are 7900, and cassette is 12-28 6700. As for pricing, I live in Tokyo so I have no idea what the market is there.


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## Wadl

thank you !


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## Yamabushi

Wadl said:


> thank you !


Cheers!


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## Wadl

oh, and by the way, 391$ means ¥30874


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## Yamabushi

Wadl said:


> oh, and by the way, 391$ means ¥30874


LOL, thank you. I'm American, but have been living in Japan for 12.5 years. What I meant was, I don't know what a good price there would be. Prices on nearly everything are significantly higher here.


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## Wadl

lol sorry my friend !  

I understand what you mean, but since we can order from everywhere around the world (I live in canada and generaly order in the UK), it is a world market now ! 

Anyway, I ordered my SRAM RED exogram compact 172.5 yesterday !! YAY !

now, I read everywhere that the ceramic bb is a pain to live with. Which bb should I buy ? the GXP regular one ?


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## LouisLu

I got it last month on ebay 1700$ (172.5), nice and easy for ride... I like it


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## moonjogger

I just bought BB30 Sram red exogram compact 165 to replace the Sram S350 on my bike. But there's a problem , now the old chain (PC1051) is noisy with the new Crankset. The chain is Chatering in all cassettes (PG 1050) except the one in the middle where the chain lined up perfectly with the chainring.
Any one have ideas what's wrong ?


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## robdamanii

moonjogger said:


> I just bought BB30 Sram red exogram compact 165 to replace the Sram S350 on my bike. But there's a problem , now the old chain (PC1051) is noisy with the new Crankset. The chain is Chatering in all cassettes (PG 1050) except the one in the middle where the chain lined up perfectly with the chainring.
> Any one have ideas what's wrong ?


How old was the chain (how many miles?) It's possible the chain is overly worn and not meshing well with the new components.

Or it could be just a little out of adjustment.


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## Wadl

moonjogger said:


> I just bought BB30 Sram red exogram compact 165 to replace the Sram S350 on my bike. But there's a problem , now the old chain (PC1051) is noisy with the new Crankset. The chain is Chatering in all cassettes (PG 1050) except the one in the middle where the chain lined up perfectly with the chainring.
> Any one have ideas what's wrong ?


I have a 7800 cassette and a 7800 chain that have about 1000 km on them and it is kinda noisy too with my new SRAM Red exogram crank.

I wstill need to change my cassette to a 12-23 so I will change my chain with a KMC one.. I hope the noise will go away !


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## mattheis

Ive been loving the new gruppo


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## Wadl

mattheis said:


> Ive been loving the new gruppo


AAAAH great !!! good for you. 

I am waiting on my shifter and rear derailleur from bike-discount.de... still trying to find a good front derailleur to complete my group !! can't wait !


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## moonjogger

@robdamanii: the chain is 3 months old (around 2000km)

@Wadl: I think the exogram crank teeth are thicker than other crank. Update me when you change your chain, will you ?


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## Wadl

moonjogger said:


> @robdamanii: the chain is 3 months old (around 2000km)
> 
> @Wadl: I think the exogram crank teeth are thicker than other crank. Update me when you change your chain, will you ?


I will but it may take a while, in a month or two! But what you said might be the cause (the sound looks like a clacking or something like that), I will try to mesure the tickness of the exogram crank compare to my old 7800 and I will write it down here


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