# Shimano pulls access to Hammerhead - no more DI2 integration...



## FFlintstone (8 mo ago)

Would like to discuss how everyone feels about Shimano breaking a longstanding relationship with Hammerhead which will disable DI2 integration on their flagship cycling computer, the Karoo2.
It seems a bit short sighted, and to my view clearly driven by the Hammerhead acquisition by SRAM.
I would think this would drive customers to SRAM rather than keep them loyal to Shimano.
Any thoughts out there on this topic?


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## Catmandoo (Nov 20, 2020)

You have all correct essentially. 

As well, HH is going to remove all Di2 integration with the next OS update. Ive read of many Di2 users (myself included ) who will simply stop updating. It'll come down to a ransom paid by HH to Shimano, details to follow.


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## Mackers (Dec 29, 2009)

Yeah, people will flock to SRAM in droves 

Who wouldn't swap drive trains in order to retain some minuscule portion of functionality on his cycling computer?


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## Ed Wiser (Oct 5, 2020)

As people move to electronic to electronic drive trains. This become more common. Manufactures will stop supporting the electronics in older groups. Making them obsolete. Happens all the time in the computer world.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Ed Wiser said:


> As people move to electronic to electronic drive trains. This become more common. Manufactures will stop supporting the electronics in older groups. Making them obsolete. Happens all the time in the computer world.


And this is one reason I'm in no hurry to get Di2, e-Tap, etc.


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## Catmandoo (Nov 20, 2020)

Lombard said:


> And this is one reason I'm in no hurry to get Di2, e-Tap, etc.


Well, its no reason to not use electronic. You just lose the nice feature of seeing what gear you are in and hows your battery doing. And the workaround is dont update to the latest HH OS


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## ljvb (Dec 10, 2014)

Catmandoo said:


> You have all correct essentially.
> 
> As well, HH is going to remove all Di2 integration with the next OS update. Ive read of many Di2 users (myself included ) who will simply stop updating. It'll come down to a ransom paid by HH to Shimano, details to follow.


You call it ransom, the rest of the world calls it licensing fees. It is common in all industries. Until the patent on the communication protocols that Shimano uses enters the public domain, they have a right to charge license fees. Now as for the length of patents, that is a legit argument, but a topic for another thread.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

ljvb said:


> You call it ransom, the rest of the world calls it licensing fees. It is common in all industries. Until the patent on the communication protocols that Shimano uses enters the public domain, they have a right to charge license fees. Now as for the length of patents, that is a legit argument, but a topic for another thread.


Except that if it's mechanical, it won't stop working on a particular day when the software license expires.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Lombard said:


> Except that if it's mechanical, it won't stop working on a particular day when the software license expires.


Di2 doesn't have a software license that expires. You can keep shifting day after day... just like mechanical.


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## ljvb (Dec 10, 2014)

tlg said:


> Di2 doesn't have a software license that expires. You can keep shifting day after day... just like mechanical.


No, but the communication module (DFLY or whatever they call it) that uses ANT+ and BT do have licensing fees, which Shimano has to pay to Garmin, and will then pass on to whomever wants to interact with the DI2 system. Granted, my DI2 is much older, so maybe newer ones include the communications modules.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

ljvb said:


> No, but the communication module (DFLY or whatever they call it) that uses ANT+ and BT do have licensing fees, which Shimano has to pay to Garmin, and will then pass on to whomever wants to interact with the DI2 system. Granted, my DI2 is much older, so maybe newer ones include the communications modules.


That has nothing to do with your bicycle operation. Your bicycle doesn't stop working. You can still keep shifting day after day.. just like mechanical.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

ljvb said:


> No, but the communication module (DFLY or whatever they call it) that uses ANT+ and BT do have licensing fees, which Shimano has to pay to Garmin, and will then pass on to whomever wants to interact with the DI2 system. Granted, my DI2 is much older, so maybe newer ones include the communications modules.


I don't have a Garmin either and have no idea what ANT+ and BT is.


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