# Upgrading from Shimano 105



## jerseyhank (Jul 18, 2016)

Im currently riding a Felt Aluminum Frame/Carbon Fork with Shimano 105 Groupset. I've been thinking of upgrading to Ultegra. Would there be a noticeable difference between the two. Would it make more sense to just change certain components where ultegra performs better than 105 in stead of spending the money on an entire ultegra groupset. I keep hearing they're very similar in performance. I'm a weekend rider (Maybe 20 to 30 miles) that occasionally will do a sprint triathlon or longer group rides.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

jerseyhank said:


> Im currently riding a Felt Aluminum Frame/Carbon Fork with Shimano 105 Groupset. I've been thinking of upgrading to Ultegra. Would there be a noticeable difference between the two. Would it make more sense to just change certain components where ultegra performs better than 105 in stead of spending the money on an entire ultegra groupset. I keep hearing they're very similar in performance. I'm a weekend rider (Maybe 20 to 30 miles) that occasionally will do a sprint triathlon or longer group rides.


Why are you thinking of upgrading? What do you think you'll gain?

I have (or had) bikes with Tiagra, 105, & Ultegra. I would never ever upgrade from 105 to Ultegra just for the sake of it. Total waste of money to replace perfectly working parts with little to no gain (Yes the difference is pretty small). Especially if I was a weekender doing 30mi. 

If something breaks, then consider replace it with Ultegra if you wish.


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## apn (Mar 1, 2012)

Best bang for the buck; Shimano Road Components - Where to Spend Your Money


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

You don't say what generation of 105 you have (5700? 5800?), or which generation of Ultegra you are considering (6700,6800, 6870 di2?). You also don't say what you are trying to accomplish. Shiny new bling? Better shifting? Go faster (vrooooom!)

You also didn't tell us how much your money means to you, which makes it difficult for us to tell you if it's 'worth it'. 

Assuming you are going from 105 11sp (5800) to Ultegra 11sp (6800), common sense would say this is not a good value. 5800 shifts really well across the board. Especially in the rear. You might feel some improvement in the 'feel' of shifting with new shifters and a new FD, but again, those gains are marginal, and subjective. 

None of it is going to make you or your bike faster.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

Migen21 said:


> You don't say what generation of 105 you have (5700? 5800?), or which generation of Ultegra you are considering (6700,6800, 6870 di2?). You also don't say what you are trying to accomplish. Shiny new bling? Better shifting? Go faster (vrooooom!)
> 
> You also didn't tell us how much your money means to you, which makes it difficult for us to tell you if it's 'worth it'.
> 
> ...


I'm with this guy. ^^^

I've ridden 5700 105, 5800 105, 6700 Ultegra, 6800 Ultegra and DA9000 Dura-ace. If you're going from the 5700 105 up to 6800 Ultegra, I'd say you'll notice a difference. It will feel different to you. It will be smoother, lighter action, etc. It just feels better all around. It won't really make you any faster, but you might enjoy riding your bike more and that can make you faster sometimes. If you're staying in the 10 speed class, simply going from 105 to Ultegra won't accomplish much, except maybe saving a little bit of weight. In the 11 speed class, I'd say the same. You won't see much change. My Allez started as a 5800 105 bike and I've gradually upgraded it to Ultegra 6800 as friends have upgraded their Ultegra bikes to DA and I picked up the used 6800 parts cheaply. I swapped the crank, brakes and FD. I have the RD but haven't put it on yet, because the 5800 RD is fine. At some point, I'll get to it, maybe over the winter.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

TricrossRich said:


> I'm with this guy. ^^^
> 
> I've ridden 5700 105, 5800 105, 6700 Ultegra, 6800 Ultegra and DA9000 Dura-ace. If you're going from the 5700 105 up to 6800 Ultegra, I'd say you'll notice a difference.


 An upgrade from 10sp to 11sp will most likely require a new rear wheel as well. Even more money.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

I will say this.

You will notice a considerable improvement in shifting smoothness and quality going from Shimano's previous generation 5700/6700/7900 (10-speed) to their current generation 5800/6800/9000 (11-speed).

You will notice very little to no improvement going to a higher group set within a generation ex: 5700 to 6700 or 5800 to 6800. Waste of money.

Unfortunately, as TLG said, if your freehub is older and can only take a 10-speed cassette, you will have to change your rear wheel to a newer 11-speed compatible one.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Lombard said:


> You will notice a considerable improvement in shifting smoothness and quality going from Shimano's previous generation 5700/6700/7900 (10-speed) to their current generation 5800/6800/9000 (11-speed).


I own two bikes, one with 7900 and one with 6800 and definitely agree with that.

Even so though, OP, that better shifting does absolutely nothing for my speed or enjoyment. So I would't bother unless you just want to upgrade for the sake of being OCD about shifting precision. It does nothing for riding performance.


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## jerseyhank (Jul 18, 2016)

Migen21 said:


> You don't say what generation of 105 you have (5700? 5800?), or which generation of Ultegra you are considering (6700,6800, 6870 di2?). You also don't say what you are trying to accomplish. Shiny new bling? Better shifting? Go faster (vrooooom!)
> 
> You also didn't tell us how much your money means to you, which makes it difficult for us to tell you if it's 'worth it'.
> 
> ...


Migen21, I'm not sure which generation they are. I can tell you they are from a 2011 model. Here are the specs 2011 Felt Z85 - BikePedia

I guess what I wanted to achieve is a smoother shift. Like you said the rear does shift really well however the front at times feels a little stiff. Would a ultegra 6800 FD help improve that or am I splitting hairs here. 

I've been reading the better choice upgrade would be my wheelset so I'm starting to lean in that direction.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

jerseyhank said:


> I guess what I wanted to achieve is a smoother shift. Like you said the rear does shift really well however the front at times feels a little stiff. Would a ultegra 6800 FD help improve that or am I splitting hairs here.


When is the last time you replaced your cables and housing? 2011?
It's probably time for a little maintenance. Which will likely make your shifting feel much better.


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## jerseyhank (Jul 18, 2016)

tlg said:


> When is the last time you replaced your cables and housing? 2011?
> It's probably time for a little maintenance. Which will likely make your shifting feel much better.


Great point!! Never replaced, all original cables.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

jerseyhank said:


> Great point!! Never replaced, all original cables.


OMG. Replace your *housing *and *cables*. You won't have any urge to upgrade afterwards.

Most people replace them every year, maybe 2yrs if you don't ride a lot. Shimano shifters are notorious for having the cables fray break inside them, making it impossible to remove the broken piece. You want to replace them before that can happen.

Your bottom bracket cable guide probably needs a good cleaning too. An old toothbrush works good. Any grit or gunk in there can make shifting sluggish.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

tlg said:


> OMG. Replace your *housing *and *cables*. You won't have any urge to upgrade afterwards.
> 
> Most people replace them every year, maybe 2yrs if you don't ride a lot. Shimano shifters are notorious for having the cables fray break inside them, making it impossible to remove the broken piece. You want to replace them before that can happen.
> 
> Your bottom bracket cable guide probably needs a good cleaning too. An old toothbrush works good. Any grit or gunk in there can make shifting sluggish.




Cables are everything - replace them! But make sure you buy good quality *stainless steel* cables, not the cheaper galvanized ones which will over time will oxidize making them rough and causing poor shifting. New housings will help too.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

jerseyhank said:


> I guess what I wanted to achieve is a smoother shift. Like you said the rear does shift really well however the front at times feels a little stiff. Would a ultegra 6800 FD help improve that or am I splitting hairs here.


Careful! If your replace your FD with 6800, your existing shifter will not be compatible. Shimano changed the pull ratios in their latest generation road group sets. The shifters and derailleurs must be the same generation.


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## chudak (Jul 28, 2012)

I'll provide a controversial and counter viewpoint...

I loved everything about my 2013 Felt Z4...except the drive train. It just never shifted well. I had it to 3 different shops (and probably at least 5 mechanics between them), tried different chains, replaced the shift cables twice, replace the rear mech once and nothing solved the problem.

After 2 years and about 15k miles I finally upgraded from the 5700 (10 speed 105) to 6800 (11 speed Ultegra). I also dumped the FSA crankset and the pressfit BB and got an Ultegra crankset with a Praxis BB adapter (I battled a creaking BB from the day I took it home from the shop).

It was like riding a new bike. The Ultegra shifted flawlessly whereas the 105 was constantly mis-shifting.

I know plenty of people run 105 without any issues and I believe them but for me it was a constant lesson in frustration. I'm more than happy with the upgrade a year and a half later.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

chudak said:


> I'll provide a controversial and counter viewpoint...
> 
> I loved everything about my 2013 Felt Z4...except the drive train. It just never shifted well. I had it to 3 different shops (and probably at least 5 mechanics between them), tried different chains, replaced the shift cables twice, replace the rear mech once and nothing solved the problem.
> 
> ...


yeah, but I don't think your experience had anything to to with going from 105 to Ultegra but had to do with going from one generation to another.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

jerseyhank said:


> Migen21, I'm not sure which generation they are. I can tell you they are from a 2011 model. Here are the specs 2011 Felt Z85 - BikePedia
> 
> I guess what I wanted to achieve is a smoother shift. Like you said the rear does shift really well however the front at times feels a little stiff. Would a ultegra 6800 FD help improve that or am I splitting hairs here.
> 
> I've been reading the better choice upgrade would be my wheelset so I'm starting to lean in that direction.


That bike has 10 speed 105, which is the 5700 groupset. If you were to upgrade to Ultegra shifters and derailleurs, you would probably FEEL the difference, and (subjectively) look a little nicer. It will make zero difference in any other way.

A well adjusted 5700 groupset shifts pretty darn good (especially with good, properly installed cables). Ultegra 6800 shifts a little better (especially in front). The force required to shift is less, and it just generally feels better.

Is it worth the cost of the groupset ($640+), and possibly a rear wheel (if your current freehub is 10sp it won't work with an 11sp cassette). My feeling is 'nope'..

I say this having Ultegra 6800/6870 di2 on all of my bikes except one (these were all built this way). One has the same 10sp 105 group you have (it won't be upgraded - probably ever).

Edit:
And looking at the components list, I would also suggest you'll like the feel of the Ultegra crankset considerably better than the FSA your bike (apparently came with).

Oh, and if this component list is correct,and yours came with a square taper Bottom Bracket, you are going to need a new Bottom Bracket as well.
==============================================================

Components Component GroupShimano 105BrakesetShimano Dual Pivot brakes, Shimano 105 STI leversShift LeversShimano 105 STIFront DerailleurShimano 105, clamp onRear DerailleurShimano 105CranksetFSA Vero Compact, 50/34t teethPedalsUnspecifiedBottom BracketSquare Taper, 103mm spindleBB Shell Width68mmRear Cogs10-speed, 11 - 28 teethChainShimano 105 10-speed

<tbody>

</tbody>


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

chudak said:


> I'll provide a controversial and counter viewpoint...
> 
> I loved everything about my 2013 Felt Z4...except the drive train. It just never shifted well. I had it to 3 different shops (and probably at least 5 mechanics between them), tried different chains, replaced the shift cables twice, replace the rear mech once and nothing solved the problem.
> 
> ...


I basically did the same thing you did. I upgraded from 5700 to 6800 and replaced the FSA Gossamer with a 6800 crankset. While the 5700 was never bad except for a couple instances of chain suck, the 6800 is a big improvement. Shifting has never been better on any bikes I've owned. 1,600 miles and haven't dropped a chain yet.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Jay Strongbow said:


> yeah, but I don't think your experience had anything to to with going from 105 to Ultegra but had to do with going from one generation to another.


Precisely the point.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Migen21 said:


> Oh, and if this component list is correct,and yours came with a square taper Bottom Bracket, you are going to need a new Bottom Bracket as well.


If this is the case, things may get tricky. Yes, BBs are cheap and new Shimano cranksets often come with the necessary Hollowtech II BB. However, getting the spacers set up so the chain line is correct can be a test of patience.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

There ya go. Sounds like you should just buy a new bike with Ultegra 6800.

You are welcome =)


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

tlg said:


> An upgrade from 10sp to 11sp will most likely require a new rear wheel as well. Even more money.


Depends on the wheels, some you can change the freehub. 

I agree from the 5700 to 6700 isn't worth much, but from 5700 to 6800 could be to many depending on how flush you are financially and how much you ride. The 6800 shifts nicer and has much improved front deraileur trimming.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

I can't speak about 105 to Ultegra but I upgraded from 6800 to 9000. Didn't really notice any difference on the brakes. Shifting is marginally better. Is it worth it if you sit down and do the analysis, probably not, but 9000 is as good as it gets for a mechanical group set and 9100 isn't much of a change unless you're getting disc or electronic and it just feels better to ride a top notch bike.

The important question to ask is what you are trying to achieve. If you think shedding some weight in the group set will make you ride faster, you'll be very disappointed. If you are on a previous generation 105, Ultegra, or Dura Ace you may find it worthwhile simply because the shifters feel better, at least they did to me. I also found myself using the trim feature less on the current generation than I did on 6700.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Srode said:


> Depends on the wheels, some you can change the freehub.


Yea but I doubt an entry level Felt with "Felt Sealed Forged Aluminum" hubs is going to have an 11sp hub option.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

Not much advantage in going from 10 to 11 gears. The closer gear ratios mostly benefit racers who are trying to achieve some optimum ratio. 10 is plenty and in doesn't limit the extreme ranges.


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## jerseyhank (Jul 18, 2016)

First off, I'm new to this forum and wanted to say thanks for all the great advice. I took my bike to my local bike shop yesterday for a complete tuneup, change all my cables (which were the originals) new Ultegra chain as it needed a new one and some flashy new bar tape. The mechanic confirmed it wouldn't be worth switching over to Ultegra or even changing wheelset (in my budget). I'll save a few bucks here and there and start looking into a full carbon with Ultegra. 

Thanks All


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Srode said:


> Depends on the wheels, some you can change the freehub.
> 
> I agree from the 5700 to 6700 isn't worth much, but from 5700 to 6800 could be to many depending on how flush you are financially and how much you ride. The 6800 shifts nicer and has much improved front deraileur trimming.


I would say your best improvement while keeping costs down would be to go from 5700 to 5800. Sure, I went with the 6800 for the little extra bling, but I'm not convinced the 6800 shifts any smoother or better than the 5800 would. The latest generation sets 5800/6800/9000 introduced an extra detent on the front shifter going down from high to low that virtually eliminates the chances of a dropped chain. The actuation ratios changed as well which makes the shifting feel lighter and more precise.

However, I did not notice a lot of improvement in the braking going from 5700 to 6800 brakes. The 5700s were already very good. Maybe a tiny bit of improvement, but certainly not as much improvement as with the shifting.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

jerseyhank said:


> First off, I'm new to this forum and wanted to say thanks for all the great advice. I took my bike to my local bike shop yesterday for a complete tuneup, change all my cables (which were the originals) new Ultegra chain as it needed a new one and some flashy new bar tape. The mechanic confirmed it wouldn't be worth switching over to Ultegra or even changing wheelset (in my budget). I'll save a few bucks here and there and start looking into a full carbon with Ultegra.
> 
> Thanks All


So..... how does it shift???


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

jerseyhank said:


> First off, I'm new to this forum and wanted to say thanks for all the great advice. I took my bike to my local bike shop yesterday for a complete tuneup, change all my cables (which were the originals) new Ultegra chain as it needed a new one and some flashy new bar tape. The mechanic confirmed it wouldn't be worth switching over to Ultegra or even changing wheelset (in my budget). I'll save a few bucks here and there and start looking into a full carbon with Ultegra.
> 
> Thanks All


Yea, hard to see an improvement in wheels if you are staying in roughly the same price point.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

Lombard said:


> I would say your best improvement while keeping costs down would be to go from 5700 to 5800. Sure, I went with the 6800 for the little extra bling, but I'm not convinced the 6800 shifts any smoother or better than the 5800 would. The latest generation sets 5800/6800/9000 introduced an extra detent on the front shifter going down from high to low that virtually eliminates the chances of a dropped chain. The actuation ratios changed as well which makes the shifting feel lighter and more precise.
> 
> However, I did not notice a lot of improvement in the braking going from 5700 to 6800 brakes. The 5700s were already very good. Maybe a tiny bit of improvement, but certainly not as much improvement as with the shifting.


I wouldn't say there's a huge improvement in overall braking power from 5700 to 5800, but just as they changed the shifting cable pull ratios, they also changed the brake cable pull ratios, giving the brakes better modulation, allowing you to apply braking power more evenly and precisely. The brakes from the 11 speed generation also introduced a centering screw adjustment which makes setting them up and swapping between different wheel sets with different widths easier.


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## jerseyhank (Jul 18, 2016)

tlg said:


> So..... how does it shift???


I wont have it back till This weekend hopefully, The bike shop was really busy as you can imagine during this time of year. He assured me It would feel way better with the improvements.


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## bigjohnla (Mar 29, 2010)

I do most of my own work. I buy my parts from a one man repair shop owned by a guy in my local bike club. He builds a few bikes but mostly just does repairs. It costs me a few bucks extra for parts but it is worth it for the free advice. Several years back he told me that anything above 105 was a waste of money. If you want to upgrade something that will make a difference go with better wheels.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

I think most of these group sets perform their function when new, but how does a 5 or 10 year old sora hold up against a similar aged old dura ace? That's my question. As you go down from Dura Ace to Sora or less at each step Shimano is decontenting just a little. Maybe not a big deal when comparing Ultegra to Dura Ace but jump enough price points and you just might notice.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

Trek_5200 said:


> but how does a 5 or 10 year old


Unless they don't ride much, don't people just replace with new by then?



> jump enough price points and you *just might* notice.


TBD? :confused5:


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

bvber said:


> Unless they don't ride much, don't people just replace with new by then?
> 
> 
> TBD? :confused5:


Only if you like to churn your bike portfolio. No inherent reason why old sets need to be replaced. My Trek is on its original. I have no plans to change my 9000 on my Colnago. Plenty of people with 7800 Dura Ace who are gladly holding onto them as well. Wish I had one myself as I prefer the exposed cables going into the shifters as they last longer.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

Trek_5200 said:


> No inherent reason why old sets need to be replaced.


For those who do ride a lot, parts wear out.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

bvber said:


> For those who do ride a lot, parts wear out.


On track to ride over 6,000 miles this year, rode 6300 miles last year and over 5000 miles the year before that. Cables, cassettes and chains get wear out, things like cranks, not really. And if a part were to break it can be repaired or replaced usually but I think you were suggesting people upgrade due to bordedom or some perceived need that they weren't riding state of the art.


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## Biker_Bob (Jun 7, 2008)

I recently destroyed the 10 speed 105 rear derailleur on my rarely used ’11 Trek 2.3. Had the local shop replace it with a current model Ultegra rear derailleur (along with new cables, chain, and misc tune up stuff…). It shifted ok before and it shifts ok now. So basically....I can’t really tell the difference.


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## jdsyachts (Mar 2, 2015)

Why replace the entire groupset? The chain and cassette wear out the fastest. Upgrade them to Ultegra 10s. I did find a noticeable difference.


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