# Standard 6-speed freewheel - Ultra 6 Chain?



## honkinunit (Feb 13, 2005)

My old Windsor/Centurion is done! What a great ride. I wish I _could[/I ride it, but I had surgery in the middle of all this.

I have been able to take it around the block a few times. When shifting, it will hit a spot between 1-2 and 2-3 where the chain will ride between the cogs. 

The freewheel is a Regina 6-speed. The cogs look really good, although the body has a slight case of looseness. The chain is an 'HKK Ultra', which I am guessing means it was designed to work with the old SunTour Ultra 6 freewheels. As I recall, the Ultra 6 chains just didn't work well with Regina freewheels. 

What are my chain options? Are good 6 speed chains still available?_


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Five and standard six speed chains are the same. Ultra six and seven are the same.


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## honkinunit (Feb 13, 2005)

*Source for 5-6 speed chain?*

So, what is the best option for a standard 6 speed chain at this point?


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## CurbDestroyer (Mar 6, 2008)

honkinunit said:


> So, what is the best option for a standard 6 speed chain at this point?


You have to experiement. Your problem is that the chain rides on the ridges/grooves on top the cog's teeth. New chains will ride in those grooves. Your best bet is to find an old Shimano twist tooth freewheel. They best luck I've always had was with Shimano 600 Chains (Not Ultegra or Dura-Ace). A lot of people say a Sedis Sport chain is what you want, and didn't like it's performance. Standard or Ultra. I even tried that Regina chain with the links that are relieved on one sides.


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## honkinunit (Feb 13, 2005)

*No 6-speed standard chains available?*

So what I'm hearing is that there are no standard 6 speed chains still made and I have to find a narrower chain that works or an NOS?

I think the likelihood of a newer chain working any better than what I have is pretty small. It is only an issue on the two lowest cogs, and a little twiddling fixes it. Once the chain drops onto the cogs it stays there. 

I see someone has NOS Regina 5/6 speed chains on eBay for $30. I might have to invest. I bought a set of Cinelli 26.4 bars to stash away for this bike, too.


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## CurbDestroyer (Mar 6, 2008)

honkinunit said:


> So what I'm hearing is that there are no standard 6 speed chains still made and I have to find a narrower chain that works or an NOS?
> 
> I think the likelihood of a newer chain working any better than what I have is pretty small. It is only an issue on the two lowest cogs, and a little twiddling fixes it. Once the chain drops onto the cogs it stays there.
> 
> I see someone has NOS Regina 5/6 speed chains on eBay for $30. I might have to invest. I bought a set of Cinelli 26.4 bars to stash away for this bike, too.


You might also try a cheap chain marked as 3/32" for 6 speed standard.


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## spastook (Nov 30, 2007)

Sedisport. These were so common 20 years ago I bet if you look around in some older established bike shop they'll still have new ones kicking around.


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## Spirito (Nov 26, 2001)

honkinunit said:


> So what I'm hearing is that there are no standard 6 speed chains still made and I have to find a narrower chain that works or an NOS?


any 8 speed chain will work for your requirement. it's all 3/32 width. get yourself an 8 speed sram (was sachs, was sedis) and you'll be set. it will work better than whatever was around when your bike was new. I promise :thumbsup:

if it's making noise and clacketting after that then i'd check frame alignment and/or try another freewheel. make sure you correctly trim/adjust the rear derailleur ... most cables, and housings and shifters would either need a good lube, grease and tension or replacing. cheap and easy and good for another 10-20 years if proerly maintained. check that your rear derailleur pulleys are good and spinning free and that your cage is true and in alignment.

your chain might be fine ... check if everything's lining up straight (before spending money).


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## dmar836 (Nov 17, 2007)

I use SRAM 8 speed chains an several of my older true 10 speeds. They do work well.


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## Spirito (Nov 26, 2001)

spastook said:


> Sedisport. These were so common 20 years ago I bet if you look around in some older established bike shop they'll still have new ones kicking around.


sedis were bought by sachs ... sachs was bought by sram


go into any ordinary bike shop and they'll have regular old sram pc38 by the continuous roll and if you looks closely at the links and profile you'll notice it's just the sedis chain by another name.

sram has new names but any of their 8 speed chains whether hich polished nickel plate or plain black work just as well.

it's good stuff ... a no brainer.


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

Our shop puts 6-7-8 speed Sram PC48's on old "beater 10 speeds" (and mountain bikes for that matter) all the time with fine results.

Are you running 6 speed indexed? If so, I suspect as was mentioned above that there might be other issues such as a misaligned derailleur hanger. That's easily remedied on a steel frame.


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## CurbDestroyer (Mar 6, 2008)

Spirito said:


> any 8 speed chain will work for your requirement. it's all 3/32 width. get yourself an 8 speed sram (was sachs, was sedis) and you'll be set. it will work better than whatever was around when your bike was new. I promise :thumbsup:
> 
> if it's making noise and clacketting after that then i'd check frame alignment and/or try another freewheel. make sure you correctly trim/adjust the rear derailleur ... most cables, and housings and shifters would either need a good lube, grease and tension or replacing. cheap and easy and good for another 10-20 years if proerly maintained. check that your rear derailleur pulleys are good and spinning free and that your cage is true and in alignment.
> 
> your chain might be fine ... check if everything's lining up straight (before spending money).


The problem with 8 speed chains and regina freewheels is the plates are thin enough to get caught in the ridge that is on top of the cog's tooth. It's also a problem with Malliard freewheels because they also use the same design. Not any chain will work. I know this because I own both the Regina and Malliard freewheels, and I'm not the only one to have this problem. When this problem happened back in the mid to late 80's I had the luxury to try every chain imaginable to work with a Regina freewheel, the wider chains worked best. It was the Shimano 600 chain that worked best, it even out performed the Dura-ace 7400.


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## Spirito (Nov 26, 2001)

CurbDestroyer said:


> The problem with 8 speed chains and regina freewheels is the plates are thin enough to get caught in the ridge that is on top of the cog's tooth. It's also a problem with Malliard freewheels because they also use the same design. Not any chain will work. I know this because I own both the Regina and Malliard freewheels, and I'm not the only one to have this problem. When this problem happened back in the mid to late 80's I had the luxury to try every chain imaginable to work with a Regina freewheel, the wider chains worked best. It was the Shimano 600 chain that worked best, it even out performed the Dura-ace 7400.


Ok .. I wasn't aware of that. 

well .... I can get you all the NOS Regina chains you could ever want. even the "oro" with drilled out links. very expensive .... makes Campy 10 speed look cheap in comparison.


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## CurbDestroyer (Mar 6, 2008)

The problem I found was these ridges (Circled in red). The chain would sometimes land and get held in those grooves. 









The best freewheel shifting performance comes from the old shimano twist tooth. 









The Regina chain looks a lot like a sedis sport from this side. But the chain is unidirectional









Because the other side the inner plate have cutouts to make shifting better.








It was a little better, but I wasn't impressed


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## Dave_Stohler (Jan 22, 2004)

CurbDestroyer said:


> The problem with 8 speed chains and regina freewheels is the plates are thin enough to get caught in the ridge that is on top of the cog's tooth. It's also a problem with Malliard freewheels because they also use the same design. Not any chain will work. I know this because I own both the Regina and Malliard freewheels, and I'm not the only one to have this problem. When this problem happened back in the mid to late 80's I had the luxury to try every chain imaginable to work with a Regina freewheel, the wider chains worked best. It was the Shimano 600 chain that worked best, it even out performed the Dura-ace 7400.


A Shimano 8 speed chain will probably work, since the side plates are slightly stepped. They also help prevent the problem with thinner chains getting caught in the gap between the rings, as well.


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## blue280z (Oct 17, 2010)

*Thanks CurbDestroyer*

BIG THANKS CurbDestroyer. You fixed my problem!!!

I had a Regina America freewheel on my Rossin SLX since 1987 and never could solve this problem.

The drive line is original Camy Chorus (friction) with 13-21 Regina America 7-speed freewheel.

The bike came from the Marinoni factory with Regina CX chain so I figured it would work well with the freewheel made by the same manufacturer (Regina). After getting a few hundred km on the bike, the riding or the chain between cogs caused me to try a different Regina chain. I got the one with the hollow pins but the shifting still was not right. I moved away from cycling for the past 23 years as I started working, driving a car, and becoming a father...now I am back on the bike and finally fixed the problem thanks to you!

Shimano Uniglide "UG-50" chain did the trick. I did some web research and it seems the UG-50 was the chain used with the first Shimano 600 group. 

btw the "ridge riding" on the cog was so dangerous. It would feel like the chain was meshed but then under load it would seem to skip off and spin...very trouble some, especially if climbing and standing. (The only other time I felt this same panic due to mechanic failure on a bike was when speeding (strong tail wind) along a road then coming across railway tracks unexpectedly, hopping over them worked fine but having a Look cleat break free of the pedal on landing and having to recover with one pedal engaged and butt on the crossbar got the adrenalin pumping.


I will now digress this thread as I think it is old and solved Thanks

There is only one more issue with my bike. The front fork seems so frail that it shudders under braking. It is like a simple harmonic motion resonance that occurs when I hit a certain point when applying brake pressure. As well I can not pass through this shudder point. The shuddering continues as I apply more pressure until I lock up the wheel. I get around this by using the back brake more with less front (so as not to reach this point or shuddering but my stopping distances are reduced. 

I am thinking the thin fork is the culprit because at stand still I can lock the front brake and push the bike to see the flex, but maybe the NISI Mixer clincher rim or the Chorus brake pad material? Any ideas?

THANKS AGAIN
Philip


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## brblue (Jan 28, 2003)

blue280z said:


> BIG THANKS CurbDestroyer. You fixed my problem!!!
> 
> I had a Regina America freewheel on my Rossin SLX since 1987 and never could solve this problem.
> 
> ...


Somethings is flexy all right, but it's not necessarily the fork alone. The braking will just get frame, fork and wheel in an oscillatory movement. Does this shudder happen at any speed? 
If it's the kind of schimmy I think it is, it will only happen at certain speed. I think it could be modified / solved even by tightening headset if it's loose, or loosening up a bit if it's very tight at the moment, chainging brake pads to better / worse ones, bar height, fork and so on: this means these changes could either solve the issue entirely or alter the speed the problem occurs at. To completely get rid of, a new frame might be the answer...


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