# Why don't pros keep their water bottles TT style?



## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

By TT style I mean having the water bottles behind the saddle. It would seem logical from an aerodynamic perspective.


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## vetboy (Oct 11, 2005)

Using that logic, perhaps they should all just ride recumbents.ut:


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## yurl (Mar 31, 2010)

vetboy said:


> perhaps they should all just ride recumbents.


that would be AWESOME! seriously every time a recumbent pulls up next to me i think poor fellow is he a paraplegic?


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## JackDaniels (Oct 4, 2011)

If recumbents are pulling up next to you, you need to ride faster


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## ScottsSupersix (Mar 25, 2012)

JackDaniels, I will have to respectfully disagree with you on that last comment regarding recumbents. Last week an older gentlemen, say in his 60s, on a recumbent, passes me on the flats while I am sprinting at 32 mph in the last mile of our 33 mile weekday ride. He was going at least 34mph, and he looked comfortable doing it, LOL!


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

vetboy said:


> Using that logic, perhaps they should all just ride recumbents.ut:


Not to mention the improved handling!


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2012)

JackDaniels said:


> If recumbents are pulling up next to you, you need to ride faster


I got dropped by a dude in one of those fully enclosed recumbents that looks like a giant yellow "Johnson". I was riding ~18mph into a rather stiff headwind, compounding his advantage in aerodynamics


I don't currently have a recumbent but If I'm ever in a situation where I was doing long distance bike commuting on a regular I'd definitely consider getting one. If I'm not in a UCI governed race, I see no reason _not_ to use things like fairings etc. 

Oh, and I carry water bottles both behind the seat _and_ inside the frame (4 total). Ridng in dry 90F+ weather requires about 2 liters of fluids an hour.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

The real reason is that the UCI has outlawed the use of water bottles outside the main triangle in one of the latest rulebook revisions. Goes in effect for 2013.

Luis Leon Sanchez used a triathlete-style carrier in the Tour a year or two ago.

I rarely need more than two bottles for rides, but I generally don't deal with excessive heat on a regular basis. And yes, a lot of my rides are over 4 hours in duration. If you need more water, plan on stopping, or make provisions to carry more (if you don't have the luxury of a team car). 

Form follows function, unless it makes you look like a complete dork.


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## WAZCO (Sep 16, 2004)

Alaska Mike said:


> The real reason is that the UCI has outlawed the use of water bottles outside the main triangle in one of the latest rulebook revisions. Goes in effect for 2013..


So that means no more camelbak hidden under the jerseys?


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## mrcreosote (Sep 9, 2010)

Harder to get to, and harder to put back, especially if you are already riding hard. Probably also raises the question of safety in the peleton. If you are reaching back to get a bottle, and can't see to be able to put it back, there is a greater chance of swerving/losing control and taking other people out.


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## vismitananda (Jan 16, 2011)

In the pro peloton, all you need are 2 bottle cages. Because you have a team car following you along the race that keeps on refilling your fluids.

Aside from that you have to get an excellent domistique to carry all those bottles.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Alaska Mike said:


> The real reason is that the UCI has outlawed the use of water bottles outside the main triangle in one of the latest rulebook revisions. Goes in effect for 2013.


Finally the answer I was looking for! Thanks, I didn't want this to get sidelined to a discussion about recumbents.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

Alaska Mike said:


> The real reason is that the UCI has outlawed the use of water bottles outside the main triangle in one of the latest rulebook revisions. Goes in effect for 2013.
> 
> Luis Leon Sanchez used a triathlete-style carrier in the Tour a year or two ago.
> 
> ...


ass rockets qualify as complete dork.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

easier to reach, does not fall out easily from the frame bottle holders. fram bottle holders don't break. Well, rarely.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

A club member used a double ass rocket in last years Vätternrundan 300 km sportive to limit the number of stops around the lake. Those were airborne in the first little pavé section. The bottles in the main triangle stayed put.

AFAIK UCI allows hydration back packs for TTs. I would guess they are of limited use in road races, but are they forbidden there?


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

deviousalex said:


> By TT style I mean having the water bottles behind the saddle. It would seem logical from an aerodynamic perspective.


It's not entirely clear that carrying your bottles behind the saddle is aerodynamically sound. There are studies claiming it's not. I have to admit that I don't know how credible these studies are.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

mrcreosote said:


> Harder to get to, and harder to put back, especially if you are already riding hard. Probably also raises the question of safety in the peleton. If you are reaching back to get a bottle, and can't see to be able to put it back, there is a greater chance of swerving/losing control and taking other people out.


I have used Selle Italia's Optima saddle for a few seasons on my TT bike. It's actually very easy to grab and put back with minimal practice. I can grab my water bottle, take a swig, and put it back while staying in the aero position. I don't think it would be as convenient on a road bike.


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## MattSoutherden (Jun 24, 2009)

wim said:


> It's not entirely clear that carrying your bottles behind the saddle is aerodynamically sound. There are studies claiming it's not. I have to admit that I don't know how credible these studies are.


It looks to me like some of the tests that claim they're really bad are not testing with a rider on the bike.

Of the ones that do test with a rider, they seem to fair ok in a static test, but really badly when they factor in a quick reach-around *cough* every few mins for a drink.

So by all meas carry one - just don't drink from it.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

Related question:

I thought triathletes love pissing themselves. If so, why do they put their bottles directly below the "stream"???

Jeezum, what a hideous sport, it blows the mind.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

deviousalex said:


> By TT style I mean having the water bottles behind the saddle. It would seem logical from an aerodynamic perspective.


actually the water bottle on the seat tube helps a lot with aerodynamics. You may see people using empty bottles for short prologue-type time trials for aero advantage. The biggest advantage of bottles behind the seat is to provide extra water for long events, like ironman - you can have 4 waterbottles. Plus some time trial frames are not very bottle friendly. But peloton can get water bottles from car any time. However, getting water bottles from that position is always tricky, and they are prone to ejecting. It's all disadvantage and no advantages.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

55x11 said:


> actually the water bottle on the seat tube helps a lot with aerodynamics. You may see people using empty bottles for short prologue-type time trials for aero advantage. The biggest advantage of bottles behind the seat is to provide extra water for long events, like ironman - you can have 4 waterbottles. Plus some time trial frames are not very bottle friendly. But peloton can get water bottles from car any time. However, getting water bottles from that position is always tricky, and they are prone to ejecting. It's all disadvantage and no advantages.


I assume only aero bottles help.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

deviousalex said:


> I assume only aero bottles help.


Moot point. The UCI outlawed aero bottles and defined water bottle shape.

From what I recall, most aerodynamic studies I've seen used standard water bottles.


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## leathernek (Feb 25, 2007)

mrcreosote said:


> Harder to get to, and harder to put back, especially if you are already riding hard. Probably also raises the question of safety in the peleton. If you are reaching back to get a bottle, and can't see to be able to put it back, there is a greater chance of swerving/losing control and taking other people out.


... just ask Cancellera.


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## BillyWayne (Aug 1, 2011)

foto said:


> Related question:
> 
> I thought triathletes love pissing themselves. If so, why do they put their bottles directly below the "stream"???
> 
> Jeezum, what a hideous sport, it blows the mind.


Huh? What is wrong with triathletes? Guys on the tours piss themselves all the time.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

BillyWayne said:


> Huh? What is wrong with triathletes? Guys on the tours piss themselves all the time.


I have never heard of such a thing.


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## BillyWayne (Aug 1, 2011)

foto said:


> I have never heard of such a thing.


Oh sorry. My bad. It must have been French soccer I was watching.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

Waterbottles behind the seat tend to go flying on any type of rough road surfaces. I can't see many situations outside of a triathlon where you need 4 waterbottles really. Races, you get neutral water or food stops, and on centuries/fondos. you can stop to refill bottles.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

as seen on bikesnob

How To: Peeing on the Bike


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## BillyWayne (Aug 1, 2011)

nightfend said:


> Waterbottles behind the seat tend to go flying on any type of rough road surfaces. I can't see many situations outside of a triathlon where you need 4 waterbottles really. Races, you get neutral water or food stops, and on centuries/fondos. you can stop to refill bottles.


I keep my flat kit in a Shimano Pro bottle in the holder behind my seat on my tri bike. This weekend I hit a small sink hole and the bottle popped out and the top popped off and my stuff went all over. It took me 15 minutes to find everything scattered in the roadside ferns. I am going to have to strap it in now. 
I had a friend of mine that bought into the "more aero" and put his bottles behind his seat on his road race bike. He launched a few bottles and then gave up the idea.


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## BillyWayne (Aug 1, 2011)

foto said:


> as seen on bikesnob
> 
> How To: Peeing on the Bike


Yep. That is how I do it.


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## ALIHISGREAT (Dec 21, 2011)

deviousalex said:


> By TT style I mean having the water bottles behind the saddle. It would seem logical from an aerodynamic perspective.


Bottles bounce out of the tt style holders eg Cadel Evans' in the Criterium du dauphine tt


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## psycleridr (Jul 21, 2005)

wim said:


> It's not entirely clear that carrying your bottles behind the saddle is aerodynamically sound. There are studies claiming it's not. I have to admit that I don't know how credible these studies are.


I've seen a few studies as well. Most aero is a normal bottle between Aero bars in horizontal position. Even better than those Aero bottles vertically mounted. Next I think was down tube. Then seat tube (could have those mixed). Lastly was the behind the seat bottle holders. This was with rider on bike in wind tunnel testing. I will need to find those studies to post


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## MattSoutherden (Jun 24, 2009)

ALIHISGREAT said:


> Bottles bounce out of the tt style holders eg Cadel Evans' in the Criterium du dauphine tt


Evans was using a frame mounted Elite aero bottle in the TT.

You can see the cage in this pic:

Critérium Du Dauphiné 2012: Cadel Evans (BMC) Put In A Solid Effort But Was Still Nearly..., Photos | Cyclingnews.com

Matches the cage and bottle in this pic of GH:

Critérium Du Dauphiné 2012: George Hincapie (BMC), Photos | Cyclingnews.com


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*a $10 bill*



Alaska Mike said:


> The real reason is that the UCI has outlawed the use of water bottles outside the main triangle in one of the latest rulebook revisions. Goes in effect for 2013.
> 
> Luis Leon Sanchez used a triathlete-style carrier in the Tour a year or two ago.
> 
> ...


is so much lighter and aerodynamic than 2 more water bottles
it's crazy, everywhere I ride there seem to be these things called 'stores' where I can buy more water and/or sports drinks


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*guys in the tour*



BillyWayne said:


> Huh? What is wrong with triathletes? Guys on the tours piss themselves all the time.


take 'nature breaks' or have a team mate support them and pull down their bibs and let it fly

only tri folks soil themselves regularly, comes from distance running


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*I know the coach mentioned*



foto said:


> as seen on bikesnob
> 
> How To: Peeing on the Bike


in that article
and that does sound like his advice


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

atpjunkie said:


> in that article
> and that does sound like his advice


WHAT??? I thought that article was satire!


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

foto said:


> I have never heard of such a thing.


Really? Google it.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

waldo425 said:


> Really? Google it.


I don't think we are talking about the same thing when we talk about "pissing ourselves"


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## SolidSnake03 (Jun 22, 2011)

I think Greg Lemond 1up'd all the peeing stuff one time....

“Lemond was in trouble. He had a bout of diarrhea. He rode by me with thirty kilometers to go, surrounded by his domestiques bringing him to the front. God the smell was terrible. It was rolling down his legs. I know if it was me I would stop. But then I am not capable of winning the Tour de France. He is, and I suppose that's the
difference."
-- Paul Kimmage


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## psycleridr (Jul 21, 2005)

SolidSnake03 said:


> I think Greg Lemond 1up'd all the peeing stuff one time....
> 
> &#147;Lemond was in trouble. He had a bout of diarrhea. He rode by me with thirty kilometers to go, surrounded by his domestiques bringing him to the front. God the smell was terrible. It was rolling down his legs. I know if it was me I would stop. But then I am not capable of winning the Tour de France. He is, and I suppose that's the
> difference."
> -- Paul Kimmage


Ewwwwwwww


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## Mighty Matt (May 28, 2009)

deviousalex said:


> By TT style I mean having the water bottles behind the saddle. It would seem logical from an aerodynamic perspective.


Because they look stupid. Its like strapping a saddle bag to the seat of your road bike. Its just a no no, and you gotta follow the rules.

Check out Velominati for the rules.

Plus it would look like your bike has a nutsack, and nutsacks arent pretty.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

SolidSnake03 said:


> I think Greg Lemond 1up'd all the peeing stuff one time....
> 
> &#147;Lemond was in trouble. He had a bout of diarrhea. He rode by me with thirty kilometers to go, surrounded by his domestiques bringing him to the front. God the smell was terrible. It was rolling down his legs. I know if it was me I would stop. But then I am not capable of winning the Tour de France. He is, and I suppose that's the
> difference."
> -- Paul Kimmage


I would not want to draft him.


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2012)

NJBiker72 said:


> I would not want to draft him.


An easier way to keep wheelsuckers off your back is to carry two water bottles behind your seat -- they'll steer clear just to avoid the chance of an aquatic "missile" taking them out next time you hit rough patch of road 


FYI -- I've done this and it actaully works


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## empty_set (Nov 1, 2006)

atpjunkie said:


> is so much lighter and aerodynamic than 2 more water bottles
> it's crazy, everywhere I ride there seem to be these things called 'stores' where I can buy more water and/or sports drinks


Most convenience stores allow for a free ice/water refill here in Phoenix.


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