# Pedal Washers?



## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

Who uses them? On every crank/pedal combo I've tried the diameters of the interfaces were fine and fit with no washer (ie, axle contacting alloy insert and not touching carbon). None of the other mechanics I've worked with use them and our rental fleet that constantly has pedals swapped has never had a problem.

Why do you use them and why do some cranks come with them?


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

I didn't use them for a long time but then I had a nasty creak that I chased around for a long time before figuring out it was the pedal washers. Now I throw them on because its just not worth the trouble of a hard to find creak.


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## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

kbiker3111 said:


> I didn't use them for a long time but then I had a nasty creak that I chased around for a long time before figuring out it was the *(lack of?)* pedal washers.


Do you think the washers are a little soft and mushed to fill an uneven contact surface or by being washers they turned a little and allowed you to tighten to a higher torque?
I'll keep this in mind for future creak chasing but won't start putting them on everything.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

Correct, the creaking went away when I added pedal washers where they weren't installed before. FWIW, it was shimano 6700 with Rival cranks.


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## TiCoyote (Jun 28, 2005)

I had problems with Crank Bros EggBeater pedals getting too tight against the crank and impossible to remove. The washers resolved this problem. Now I always use them.


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

I have a set of crank *taps* for standard pedals and I usually spin them thru to make sure threads are clean and then lots of *Super Web Grease. *Never used washers in 40+ years of racing and riding. Tighten pedals, and check for any loosening after first few rides. I am kinda anal about frozen pedals, especially if they remove with Allen Wrench. I usually remove my pedals every 6-8 mos and clean threads and re-grease.
No noise and never had a frozen pedal spindle.
john


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## ridingred (Aug 25, 2010)

Geesh! I thought this thread was going to be about keeping your pedals clean!!!


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

TiCoyote said:


> I had problems with Crank Bros EggBeater pedals getting too tight against the crank and impossible to remove. The washers resolved this problem. Now I always use them.


Please explain how using pedal washers would prevent the "pedals getting too tight against the crank and impossible to remove." No offense but this makes no sense whatsoever.


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## TiCoyote (Jun 28, 2005)

Kerry Irons said:


> Please explain how using pedal washers would prevent the "pedals getting too tight against the crank and impossible to remove." No offense but this makes no sense whatsoever.


You can't write something insulting, prefaced with "no offense" and then expect people not to be offended. 

Anyway, it prevents the last mm of pedal threads from engaging with the last mm of crank threads. A threaded screw basically works like an inclined plane to bore into a substance (which is why it's easier to screw a screw into wood than pound in a nail) but it increases the surface area on the friction-bearing surface (the screw threads) to say in a threaded hole (which is why it's easier to pull out a nail than to pull out a screw). 

Pedals should be self-tightening. This is why the left pedal is reverse-threaded. A pedal with a low stack height and a long spindle allows your foot to exert a great deal of force on the end of the crank arm. This force tightens the pedal spindle threads against the crank threads. Adding the washer reduces the amount of thread surface area in contact, therefore reducing friction. The threads can't hold as tightly, so the pedal is easier to remove. 

This isn't my own idea. The LBS installed the washers on the replacement pedals to prevent it from happening again.


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## kathy20052012 (Jan 9, 2013)

I never heard of a pedal washer.



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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

I don't have a special pedal washer, I just use a standard scrub brush and some Simple Green. A good citrus cleaner will work as well.


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

ridingred said:


> Geesh! I thought this thread was going to be about keeping your pedals clean!!!


I thought the same thing when reading Title. I've never heard of washers for pedal spindle threads. Maybe we are on to something!
john


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

nOOky said:


> I don't have a special pedal washer, I just use a standard scrub brush and some Simple Green. A good citrus cleaner will work as well.


I use WD40, a toothbrush, and an Air-Gun. Then Pledge, toothbrush and a Rag.
john


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

TiCoyote said:


> Anyway, it prevents the last mm of pedal threads from engaging with the last mm of crank threads.


And why does this then change how the pedal engages with the crank arm. Are you saying that 1mm more of threads engaged results in pedals tightening so much that they can't be easily removed from the crank? I still do not understand the logic. I'm sure this lack of understanding on my part comes from over 40 years of not using pedal washers and never having had a problem.


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

Kerry Irons said:


> And why does this then change how the pedal engages with the crank arm. Are you saying that 1mm more of threads engaged results in pedals tightening so much that they can't be easily removed from the crank? I still do not understand the logic. I'm sure this lack of understanding on my part comes from over 40 years of not using pedal washers and never having had a problem.


Totally Agree!


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## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

jmlapoint said:


> I've never heard of washers for pedal spindle threads.


I never saw them till the mid 2000s. Now Sram cranks come with them and insist that they be used. A lot of our rental customers who bring their own pedals have washers on them so I guess some shops are putting them on. None of the mechanics I work with have ever used them and couldn't think of a reason to.


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## TiCoyote (Jun 28, 2005)

Kerry, I like this forum because it tends to be a friendly place where people give helpful advice. In my experience, pedal washers prevent frozen pedals. In your experience, they are unnecessary. That's fine. There are probably numerous variables that affect our individual experiences. 

I am perfectly welcome for you to present an opinion that disagrees with my own. However, I would prefer if you used less sarcasm and adopted a friendlier tone.


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## pigpen (Sep 28, 2005)

I use them but for different reasons.
My shoe was scrubbing the crank so I added two to each side and I have wide hip bones and have better alignment with my pedals. I actually wish I could move them out further. I realize I can use axle extensions but I really don't need as much offset as they provide.

My body actually prefers the width of MTB cranks.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

TiCoyote said:


> I am perfectly welcome for you to present an opinion that disagrees with my own. However, I would prefer if you used less sarcasm and adopted a friendlier tone.


There is a large amount of misinformation presented in these forums and so it is appropriate to challenge when someone makes a statement that cannot be supported by logic or physical evidence. You are not the first nor will you be the last person I insult here because I ask them to present either a logical argument or facts to support their claim.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

How thin are these washers? I don't think increasing Q-factor significantly is such a great idea, but I have seized my fair share of pedals so maybe it's worth the tradeoff.


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## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

DrSmile said:


> How thin are these washers?


About 1mm. I think a lot of seized pedals were because traditional pedal wrenches are so long they encourage over-torquing. Now that everything uses allen wrenches I encounter mostly properly torqued pedals.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

TiCoyote said:


> Kerry, I like this forum because it tends to be a friendly place where people give helpful advice. In my experience, pedal washers prevent frozen pedals. In your experience, they are unnecessary. That's fine. There are probably numerous variables that affect our individual experiences.
> 
> I am perfectly welcome for you to present an opinion that disagrees with my own. However, I would prefer if you used less sarcasm and adopted a friendlier tone.


just add him to your 'ignore list'


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

DrSmile said:


> How thin are these washers? I don't think increasing Q-factor significantly is such a great idea, but I have seized my fair share of pedals so maybe it's worth the tradeoff.


about 1.5mm


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Lelandjt said:


> About 1mm. I think a lot of seized pedals were because traditional pedal wrenches are so long they encourage over-torquing. Now that everything uses allen wrenches I encounter mostly properly torqued pedals.


You bring up a good point, really long pedal wrenches. I never understood why so long. They definitely invite over torquing a pedal. I finally invested in a torque wrench for pedals, cranks etc. I have always had a small torque wrench for the small hardware.

One bike has some FSA carbon cranks. They came with washers. FSA USA Tech said use them, don't use them, it doesn't matter. They had no explanation for why the cranks have them included.

I use washers on my Hollowgrams. Don't want to tighten pedals into the alloy surface.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

OK. Just out of curiosity I measured the thickness of the pedal washers that came with a new SRAM Red crank. 0.8mm AKA .031" AKA 1/32"


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

thanks for the accurate measurement................I certainly didn't hunt any down in my parts bin when I threw out the 1.5mm guestamite.


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