# Canti Lovers: TRP v Pauls v Avid Ultimates



## roseyscot (Jan 30, 2005)

Who has tried at least two out of three and what is your choice? I've been generally happy with my Pauls but the hardware is getting old and corroding. New hardware is expensive and I'm tempted to try something new anyway, probably the TRP or Avid Ultimates.


----------



## veloduffer (Aug 26, 2004)

duplicate delete


----------



## veloduffer (Aug 26, 2004)

I've used Paul's and they are very good. I recently tried a set of cantis from FSA - they work well and were fairly easy to set up. They also have a barrel adjuster to fine tune. I got them from Excel here:
http://tiny.cc/yfi4z


----------



## Corndog (Jan 18, 2006)

The FSA looks like a Tektro base model, wide canti... but more expensive. 

I've had pauls and they are really nice... but a bit heavy. They do have nice adjustability though. I also don't like the stock brake pads they come with... pretty much toss those as soon as I get them and put some rim wrangler 2's on there. That way you can swap pads without removing the entire holder. 

The TRP Euro X models are my favorite though. Great mud clearance, killer looks, light weight, and they are easy to setup. I also like the fact they use common road size pads. 

The Avid's look nice as well.... but I haven't used them personally.


----------



## Crack Monkey (Apr 19, 2007)

Haven't used all three.

I have Ultimates now, and so far, I'm happy. They out-perform the Shorty4s and Cane Creeks that preceded them.


----------



## crankles (Sep 25, 2007)

I've used Paul brakes for years. Both geared and SS race rigs have them now. I built a new team rig yesterday that I *just* set up with ultimates. They went together smoothly and seem well made. Easy adjustment, road cartidges with swissstop blacks, nice thick springs. I'll Ride them more than just around the block this week and report back. I've also ridden TRP Mags on a teammates bike. They worked really well, but I didn't really put them through any serious riding.


----------



## Rouleur (Mar 5, 2004)

*I've used the Pauls and now the Ultimates*

Both have great snappy return spring tension--I hate the feel of mushy brakes. I ran the Pauls Neo Retro's on the front and the Touring on the back last season. You can definitely tell the difference between the Neo Retros which have a lot more power than the Touring set up. 

With the Avid Ultimates, this front-back difference is much less pronounced. I am set up wide on the front and narrow in the back. The *biggest* difference is the ease of brake pad set-up for the Ultimates. I find this the most tedious part of setting up canti's, however, the Ultimates make this process very easy.


----------



## Chagrin (Jul 7, 2010)

Used TRP last year and they were not easy to set up, always had to file my pads to get full contact on the rim- there are other factors such as the frame ect... but this year I acquired the new Avid Ultimates and they are all around a better brake. Easy to set up, standard road pads, 2 options for set-up...sold.


----------



## imba_pete (Oct 19, 2008)

The avid shorty ultimates are awesome. Easy to set up, easy to adjust, well designed, durable, everything. The simplest pad adjustment out there. Adjustable spring tension. I've used them for 6 months so far.


----------



## nspace (Jun 5, 2008)

I just switched from the TRP Euro X to Paul's. I wanted Paul's from the beginning, but due to cost decided to go with the TRP's.

I was never really happy with the TRP. Getting the right toe in and pad contact on the rim was difficult. As mentioned above, filing the pads was about the only way to get a clean flush contact on my bike. I was also not impressed with the level of spring adjustment and feel at the lever. Lots of people seem to use them without issues though.

Setting up of the Paul's was much easier. There was a lot more adjustment. The conical spacers on the Paul's made setting up pad angle and toe in very easy. Even with the stock pads, I feel like there is a lot more braking power than before, and that is comparing them to my TRP's with Swissstop Green pads.

I also really liked the infinitely adjustable spring tension design built into the Paul's. With my particular setup, the brake line comes down on an angle from my hanger, and the straddle ends up being off centre; this was causing the brake pads to fall away unevenly from the rim. By compensating with spring tension I was able to counteract this and get them even on both sides. 

Super pleased with them so far. We'll see how they hold up on the race course.


----------



## BikeFixer (May 19, 2009)

I had Pauls before but I found a set of XTR cantis my buddy had and they are the best working canti brakes ever. My wife's bike is running the 1st gen XT (I think they are the BR M650) and they are so powerful they could throw you over the bars if you wanted (this is good for her weaker hands she doesn't have to squeeze as hard)
I reccomend trying to find old Shimano, Suntour, Dia-Compe cantis on Ebay or something and give them a try
$0.02


----------



## TedH (Jan 1, 1970)

I've done Paul's and now TRP, and I find it easier to adjust the TRPs (shop installed them). Paul's are good, but the tension adjustment is easier with the TRPs and the basic performance was good, although I haven't raced them yet.


----------



## zank (Aug 4, 2005)

Those of you who had to file your pads to get the toe correct, did you have the more recent models with in-place orbital pad adjusters or the older style with no orbital adjustment? I assume the older style, but if it was the newer style, was there just not enough adjustment range to make it work?


----------



## fatroadie (May 5, 2002)

Just sold my TRP's today and have been riding Ultimates for the last few weeks. No regrets!


----------



## tsunayoshi (Dec 3, 2009)

for those running the Ultimates, are you running them in the wide or narrow stance? Is there really any big difference in power or clearance in either setting?


----------



## bthor (Mar 26, 2008)

So can the ulitmates be set up either wide or narrow or are they like the pauls where you purchase the wide or narrow style depending on the position of mounting?


----------



## one_speed (Jun 30, 2003)

I have run the Paul's and I'm only commenting to the wide vs. narrow discussion. I have a Neo Retro on the front and Touring Canti on the rear. I have been messing with this set up for a couple of years and can't seem to get the front to feel as strong as the rear. Not horrible, but the touring canti definitely has more power.

I did some research and via Sheldon Brown's site, it seems the wider stance cantis just don't have the ultimate power the narrow cantis offer. What they do offer is more clearance, which I'm sure is very beneficial to those in areas that have a lot of mud. 

My Neo Retro works pretty well, but have been puzzled that even while trying different lengths of straddle cable, it never really balanced out. I also read the the majority of pros prefer the narrower cantis for their power.

Anyway, just thought I'd share as I was quite surprised.


----------



## carlosflanders (Nov 23, 2008)

Much prefer TRP to Pauls. Setup is a bit fiddly, but didn't have to make adjustments for nearly two seasons after getting them dialled in. Didn't find toe-in to be an issue (old shoes), found them to be very tolerant.

As someone who is inclined to brake too much, the gradual braking and lack of sudden grabbiness improved my race performance.


----------



## Smoothy (Jul 6, 2006)

*Paul setup help*

OK, so am resurrecting this thread to ask of the wisdom from Paul Touring Canti's owners. Have a set that are tough to set up on the rear of a custom Ti frame.

The problem: On rims 20mm's or wider, I can only use thinline pads. If you get into a wider, cross-specific rim and the thicker, cartridge pads like Avid Wrangler, the bottom of the pad contacts the rim before the rest of the pad. I'm maxing out the conical washer's range to address the problem, and when I go to tighten it all up, the pad move out of place (because the conical is at such an extreme angle). Super frustrating.

At first I wondered if my canti post's were spaced too inboard, so would like to hear if others have seen same issue (particularly the KishCx owner). Trouble with being limited to Thinline pads is that they don't make a yellow-carbon one, and you have to toss the whole think after they wear (so wasteful IMO). 

So for now, I'm working around all this with Open Pro rims at 19mm - no problems atall. But when I go back to tubulars, I'd like to get the greater surface area of a wider rim for glueing cx tubulars, if possible.


----------



## jroden (Jun 15, 2004)

i had trouble getting the pauls to fit with one tire-rim combination, so instead of filing down the brakes I threw on some of the cheap tektro cross brakes and have been very happy with them once I replaced the pads. The return springs are a tad weak.


----------



## jroden (Jun 15, 2004)

i had trouble getting the pauls to fit with one tire-rim combination, so instead of filing down the brakes I threw on some of the cheap tektro cross brakes and have been very happy with them once I replaced the pads. The return springs are a tad weak.


----------



## ZoomBoy (Jan 28, 2004)

Smoothy said:


> OK, so am resurrecting this thread to ask of the wisdom from Paul Touring Canti's owners. Have a set that are tough to set up on the rear of a custom Ti frame.
> 
> The problem: On rims 20mm's or wider, I can only use thinline pads. If you get into a wider, cross-specific rim and the thicker, cartridge pads like Avid Wrangler, the bottom of the pad contacts the rim before the rest of the pad. I'm maxing out the conical washer's range to address the problem, and when I go to tighten it all up, the pad move out of place (because the conical is at such an extreme angle). Super frustrating.
> 
> ...


I love my Paul Neo-Retros and won't use anything else if it's on my dime. I've been running these brakes on my bikes for the last 10 years or so. I have complete confidence in them, they set up quickly IME and I pretty much run Reflexes most days which are 22mm wide IIRC. The Touring Cantis set up the same and are designed around a V-brake pad. I am not familiar with the Avid Wranglers but if they are similar to an Eagle Claw/trad canti pad in size they will not work no matter what you do. Any cartridge type V pad/holder combo should fit your needs.

Jeff


----------



## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

jroden said:


> some of the cheap tektro cross brakes and have been very happy with them once I replaced the pads. The return springs are a tad weak.


This. I have the cr720's on the front w/ koolstop dual compound inserts. If I wanted to, I could set them up so that they have enough strength to throw me over the bars. Got the toe-in about perfect and it's just about eliminated my fork chatter. All for 1/2 the price of the Paul's....


----------



## WA/SScrossracer (Oct 4, 2010)

I run the Pauls on my bikes-neo retro front touring rear on 2 bikes and neo-retro on both for one bike-I like the power and easy setup and the pads that come with it are alright, but I upgraded to cartrige pads once they wore out. 
The Tektro Cr720 wasn't out when I got my pauls, but every time I've checked the lever feel on another racers bike with them they felt very good and snappy-just like a neo-retro, and sometimes they are closer to 1/4 of the price, I've heard of people paying $25/brake or less for them, the new FSA look almost the same but prettier.
I haven't used the new avid ultimate canti I'm sure it probably works pretty well, but it cost as much as or more then the paul brake, and for my money I'd rather have the Paul- they've worked well for me for a couple years-I like the look-US made-& I'm not really concerned if they weigh a little more.


----------



## ZoomBoy (Jan 28, 2004)

WA/SScrossracer said:


> I run the Pauls on my bikes-neo retro front touring rear on 2 bikes and neo-retro on both for one bike-I like the power and easy setup and the pads that come with it are alright, but I upgraded to cartrige pads once they wore out.
> The Tektro Cr720 wasn't out when I got my pauls, but every time I've checked the lever feel on another racers bike with them they felt very good and snappy-just like a neo-retro, and sometimes they are closer to 1/4 of the price, I've heard of people paying $25/brake or less for them, the new FSA look almost the same but prettier.
> I haven't used the new avid ultimate canti I'm sure it probably works pretty well, but it cost as much as or more then the paul brake, and for my money I'd rather have the Paul- they've worked well for me for a couple years-I like the look-US made-& I'm not really concerned if they weigh a little more.


The set of Neo Retros on my bike I've owned for a decade. That is worth the price of admission to me.


----------



## rockdude (Apr 3, 2008)

I used the Tektro Cr720 for about a year and they were tons better than my avid 4s. This year I switched to Paul Neo on the front and touring on the back and I must say they are a lot better. So much better I bought another set of Neo's for my pit bike.


----------



## cliff (Sep 23, 2004)

I have tried and used all three extensively. You can read the Avid Shorty Ultimate article on the cxmagazine website- a very nicely made brake. tRP has two styles, the wide profile EuroX and the narrower profile 960. It's the same power vs clearance issue. paul's are unique amongst the 3 because they have their own semi sealed pivot bushing. Paul's do have some idiosyncrasies but don't they all?


----------

