# Why no blacks in pro cycling?



## filly (Feb 6, 2003)

nmnmnm
________
VAAAPP


----------



## 0119 (Aug 9, 2003)

*Erik Saunders.....*

of the Ofoto / Lombardi Sports Team comes to mind. Check out the June/July issue of "Road, The Journal or Road Cycling and Culture" magazine, it has an article about him.


----------



## Cory (Jan 29, 2004)

*Too expensive, not cool, no role models.*

There have been a few, including Major Taylor around the turn of the (last) century. Some factors that probably influence the present lack are the cost of cycling compared to, say, basketball, the image (slowly changing, but persistent) of cycling as a sissy sport, the lack of role models and the fact that cycling just isn't cool in the inner cities. That's stereotyping to some degree, but the fact is that a lot of blacks are still at an economic disadvantage compared to whites, and it's a lot cheaper to buy a basketball once a year than to buy and maintain a bicycle for a season.
I'm pretty sure I read about an effort to get young black kids into cycling somewhere, maybe Chicago, but I haven't heard anything lately and I don't remember the details.


----------



## Tig (Feb 9, 2004)

Can anyone remember the black track sprinter that used to race against Kurt Harnett? I think black society doesn't consider bike racing to be a sport worth trying. Too bad, since I'm sure there are many black athletes that could kick butt bike racing.

The closest I know to a pro would be local hero Al Whaley. He has several masters track world championships, a gold and a silver in the 2000 paralympics (with blind/diabetic tandem partner Pam Fernandes), and now a masters world championship and record at the Manchester, England 750M TT. To see him spinning at 170 RPM on the track redefines fast twitch muscle!

<img src="https://www.southernelite.com/old_site/Images/ALWhaley.jpg">

<img src="https://www.htcomp.net/gladu/images/Y2K/ParaGames/Track21Oct/Podium3.jpg">


----------



## rendus (Jul 1, 2004)

Africa seems to have a slew of up and coming riders perhaps they'll eventually hit the euro scene.

https://www.bicycling.com/article/0,3253,s1-10782,00.html?category_id=367












> "It's just a question of means," Sawadogo, who won his first bike race on a single speed city bike says. "Cycling requires a lot of money and we just don't have it here. Of course there is the equipment that costs a lot, but even things like food become an issue. You have to eat a lot after a long ride and we just don't have the means to eat like that every day. We generally only train three days a week because that's all we can afford."


----------



## ElvisMerckx (Oct 11, 2002)

*Carbon don't bling . . .*

In all seriousness, it's mostly demographics. Cycling is a European-dominated sport, and Europe doesn't have much of a black population. In the States, at the club level, there are many blacks involved in cycling. However, only a few club riders (of any race) ever move up the ranks to the professional level, so the statistics work against minorities. In other words, there are only about five top-tier U.S. pros that have serious name recognition (LeMond, Hampsten, Armstrong, Hamilton, and perhaps Julich or Phinney). If one of those five were black, he'd have beaten the odds by a serious margin. No big deal, no conspiracy.

In U.S. track cycling, there are many dominant minorities: Major Taylor, Nelson Vails, and keep an eye on Anton Quist.


----------



## KATZRKOL (Mar 4, 2004)

*Sorry. . . it's a dumb question.*



filly said:


> nmnmnm


They are free to get into any sport they wish  . Face it. Most people think grown men on bikes are either *****ots, or English teachers or worse yet. . both. Moreover, unless you're in the .01% of the world, there is no money in it, as most Americans could care less about it. Economics has nothing to do with it, and is a liberal (easy out) position. In Europe, cycling is really a blue-collar sport with factory workers and farmers being its amateur participants, in the US it's the opposite. Cycling is (real or not), perceived as an elitist activity performed by educated white males.


----------



## Tig (Feb 9, 2004)

Cory said:


> I'm pretty sure I read about an effort to get young black kids into cycling somewhere, maybe Chicago, but I haven't heard anything lately and I don't remember the details.


IMBA and various local clubs sponsor the "Sprockids" program.
www.imba.com/sprockids/index

<img src="https://www.ghorba.org/58hsp.jpg">

<img src="https://www.ghorba.org/52hsp.jpg">


----------



## mickey-mac (Sep 2, 2000)

*Vails?*



Tig said:


> Can anyone remember the black track sprinter that used to race against Kurt Harnett?




Nelson "the Cheetah" Vails. We used to see him riding PCH in Orange County. Nice guy with an unbelievably fast sprint.


----------



## filly (Feb 6, 2003)

Why's it a dumb question? Just curious to see what opinions are out there.


----------



## KATZRKOL (Mar 4, 2004)

*OOps. .*



filly said:


> Why's it a dumb question? Just curious to see what opinions are out there.


Sorry filly, I guess I misunderstood your question.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*same reason there are few Black Swimmers, Tennis Players, Golfers*

this mostly applies to the USA
a) no youth programs in the majority of their areas and or no access to equip and /or real estate to train
b) expensive start-up and therefore beyond a portions socio-economic status
c) very little $ incentive as a Pro, kids who aspire to professional sports go where the $ is
In the US it is Basketball (cheap to play as a kid w/ huge Pro $'s), Football (same)
Baseball ( a bit more prohibitive, but most communities have ball parks).
you can look at this last figure and see it as 'the ticket out of Low Income' and if you look in Europe, the ticket is Soccer and Cycling so these attract the top tier youth talent pool, while in the USA it goes to the big 3. this makes Cycling a low incentive sport in this country. Before automobiles when cycling in the USA was the #1 sport, there were blacks (Major Taylor) as at that point it was the 'ticket' and therefore attracted the talent.


----------



## Ricky2 (Apr 7, 2004)

*Cycling is TOO EXPENSIVE!*

Let's be real here. Looking at statistics, the majority of inner city kids are predominantly from minority groups black and hispanic. Cycling is very cost-prohibitive. Just to get the equipment alone is a major investment for any family on a fixed income. Beyond that, USA Cycling sucks. Its like what 30 bucks to do a little crit race nowadays!

Until the corporations that sponsor start programs and sponsorships in the community for underpriveledged kids, nothing is going to happen.

*A pair of sneakers and a basketball are way less expensive than any race bike.*


----------



## Armchair Spaceman (Jun 21, 2003)

*Saddles...*



filly said:


> nmnmnm


Saddles are made for white guys...


----------



## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

Warning, anecdotal evidence ahead...

Over the past couple of years I lived in an apartment complex that was what you would call "ghetto." We (me, wife, kids), were one of maybe 4 non-black families in the entire neighborhood. 

The kids always seemed to like checking out my bikes everytime I was out on them, however it was probably because they looked different. There were a couple of times when I heard comments like "look at that old school bike." The kids didn't even consider riding a bike to be a sport, for them it was a means to get from point a to point b.

So I think the biggest reason is one of perception in the US. The other reason, and just as serious, is the cost factor. Even if the kids where I was living wanted to take up cycling, it was obvious that they wouldn't be able to afford it.

If I still lived in the complex, i'd go quiz a couple of the kids on cycling.


[Edit, for more info]
The "why no black in sport X" was also asked in hockey. The typical response is usually because the equipment costs too much, and there are no facilites for hockey in the poorer areas of the city.

I used to play inline hockey, and during the summer I like to still get out on the skates and skate around with a stick and ball. The neighborhood kids definately took an interest, but again, didn't have the means to get into an organized league.


----------



## Bianchigirl (Sep 17, 2004)

It is also true that Europe, where bike racing is considered to be a real sport, doesn't have a huge black population and that the black population in England is far more attracted to sports like football (the real stuff with the round ball), rugby and athletics - probably because the Brits think cycling is a pastime (daft considering that, on the track at least, we're actually pretty good at it)


----------



## WalterJ (Sep 17, 2002)

Not that many kids get into competitive cycling here in the US period so I think the poster above who spoke about stats is on to something.

Another problem is that training involves long miles. Hard to get for anyone living in urban centers and real hard for kids (of any color) with concerned parents. Young kid wants to run track he can go to the high school when the track is open and pound out some 110s or 400s and most people won't bother you. Try riding a bike on a good track and they'll come screaming (for good reason) in no time flat.

Add that to lack of role models and expense and you have a sport that just won't attract many young athletes period.


----------



## CycleBatten (Sep 28, 2004)

Although I think economics is a big part in it, I think it has a lot to do with the image and lack of exposure here in the States. A lot of my friends who when they that I cycle, get all confused. I ask them why they say it's weird and all they say is "It's so... European" or "You're one of those jerks that takes up the side of the road" or my personal favorite, due to the acute irony, while I was at wrestling practice (a sport in which a tight, spandex singlet is a must during competition) "Ew, you wear all that spandex?" 

It's just that cycling as a whole doesn't get enough exposure in America and that the sleek, smooth, European nature of competitive cycling doesn't seem to jive with baggy clothes, bling-bling, hip-hop culture that is prevalent among most black youths. Basketball is relatable, inexpensive, highly exposed; whereas cycling is distant, European, underexposed.


----------



## lonefrontranger (Feb 5, 2004)

*that and,*

CB, you're definitely on a roll, and these are good points all. If you're a fortysomething suburbanite, and haven't done inner-city youth / volunteer work and/or worked with urban teen sports programs in the last decade, I'm afraid you might not have a ton of perspective on this question.

I used to live in the black neighbourhood of Cincinnati. My particular corner of it was a bit more upscale / art community, but in the main it was pretty ghetto (Over the Rhine, for anyone who knows Cincy). Anyway, I used to do women's MTB clinics and coached juniors. Some of the juniors I coached were in disadvantaged youth programs, and they came in all colours. At one of the women's MTB clinics, I managed to convince a couple of middle-aged black ladies from up the street that I'd been working with in Spin classes to try the trail riding deal out, because the clinic offered free demo bikes. 

Both ladies had a LOT of fun, like, they were the life of the party there and probably had more fun than everyone else put together. They later admitted at the lunchtime chat that neither had been on bicycles since the age of about thirteen or fourteen, and would have NEVER thought of riding a bike in the woods had I not encouraged them to try it out. 

They admitted it was partly the economic thing, but primarily a CULTURAL thing. Apparently there's a stigma associated with riding a bicycle if you're black and of the age to get your drivers' license. Has nothing to do with the value of the bike - if you're riding a bicycle, it means you're a) too poor to own a car or b) too much of a deadbeat drunk to keep a drivers' license. This apparently has little bearing on actual fact, it's just one of those strange cultural judgement calls. If you are black, it's somehow far less embarrassing to be seen driving a clapped-out 1972 Ford Granada worth about $150, than riding around on a $3000 road bike.

Both gals really enjoyed the mountain bike clinic, and both said they were going to see about getting their kids interested in riding. I moved to Boulder shortly thereafter, so I'm not sure if it ever panned out, but at least they tried it. They had the means to get their kids bikes, but as many pointed out in the above thread, most folks living in the inner city (of whatever race) don't. FWIW, we don't see a heck of a lot of Latino racers in Colorado, and they're a significant minority population here. Same deal, I'd guess.

Anyway, just my .02

FWIW, there are several Division III black pro racers in the U.S., and a couple of good top-level black amateurs here in Boulder. In fact, I think the number of black bike racers on the Front Range actually outnumbers the number of black residents in Boulder - not a community well-known for African American heritage. I saw a few more blacks racing in OH/IN/KY, but then there are simply more blacks in the demographic there. Basically, there's no easy answer to filly's question, and there's not just one aspect at play. Aside from simple minority percentages, there are a number of intertwined economic and cultural issues.


----------



## serbski (Dec 2, 2002)

*Ford Granadas Rule!*



lonefrontranger said:


> CB, you're definitely on a roll, and these are good points all. If you're a fortysomething suburbanite, and haven't done inner-city youth / volunteer work and/or worked with urban teen sports programs in the last decade, I'm afraid you might not have a ton of perspective on this question.
> 
> I used to live in the black neighbourhood of Cincinnati. My particular corner of it was a bit more upscale / art community, but in the main it was pretty ghetto (Over the Rhine, for anyone who knows Cincy). Anyway, I used to do women's MTB clinics and coached juniors. Some of the juniors I coached were in disadvantaged youth programs, and they came in all colours. At one of the women's MTB clinics, I managed to convince a couple of middle-aged black ladies from up the street that I'd been working with in Spin classes to try the trail riding deal out, because the clinic offered free demo bikes.
> 
> ...


Oh man, my college girlfriend shared the aforementioned "clapped-out Ford Granada" with her sister! It was dull grey with no rear window. Priceless!


----------



## bimini (Jul 2, 2003)

*I disagree, cycling has no payback*

You can get a raceable bike used for a few hundred dollars. How much are those Nike Basketball shoes? About the price of a used raceable bicycle. 

The problem is that why would an athlete choose cycling as a pro endevor here in the USA. Most of the USA pros barely get along. Just a handful make the big bucks. Even Lance is poorly paid when compared to other super elite pro athletes. 

In Europe, cycling is a poor mans sport. It is a working class sport. Over there, if you want a stab at the big bucks, there is soccer and cycling. In Europe, the poor kids get a cheap bike and go out and make a name for themselves on it. Once you have a bit of a name then getting equipment is not a problem.

Over here, there is Basketball, Football and Baseball. Why go for a low paycheck in cycling if you have athletic ability? 

Most of the pros here in the US race because they just love cycling. They are not in it for the money because there is very little money to be made racing a bicycle. They just got to ride the bike.



Ricky2 said:


> Let's be real here. Looking at statistics, the majority of inner city kids are predominantly from minority groups black and hispanic. Cycling is very cost-prohibitive. Just to get the equipment alone is a major investment for any family on a fixed income. Beyond that, USA Cycling sucks. Its like what 30 bucks to do a little crit race nowadays!
> 
> Until the corporations that sponsor start programs and sponsorships in the community for underpriveledged kids, nothing is going to happen.
> 
> *A pair of sneakers and a basketball are way less expensive than any race bike.*


----------



## thefunkyplumber (Sep 27, 2004)

*my two cents*

It's bad enough being a white road cyclist
Could you imagine being black and putting in those long lonely miles on quiet country roads? I shudder to think of the hicks in the pickup trucks. Sad but most likely true. Maybe self preservation is a factor? I can't imagine many parents encouraging that for their pride and joy.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*if cycling ever became*

a multi-million dollar a year gig like basketball, etc....
there'd be plenty of black cyclists, the social stigma would die. My guess is there are more Black Tennis and Golf kids in the post Tiger / williams Era.


----------



## Ricky2 (Apr 7, 2004)

Cycling is a traditionally European sport. Thus, more whites are attracted to it. Also, what inner city minority kid can afford a Campy Record or Dura-Ace grouppo?

The level of pro cycling would be astoundingly high if the other races were involved in competition. As it is now, none of the best athletes even ride a bike.


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Ricky2 said:


> Beyond that, USA Cycling sucks. Its like what 30 bucks to do a little crit race nowadays!


everything is some kind of conspiracy w/ you, isn't it? while i'm no big fan of usac, (they send the road, mtb, and track teams to worlds, but the cx team has to pay for it's own way?), they don't set the prices for races, local promoters do. you could charge $10.00 if you wanted to, but you wouldn't cover yours costs (sound familiar?) and a criterium is cheaper than a mtb race, way cheaper than a tri ($150.00-$300.00). 
if you're looking for cheap racing, why not try a twi-light somewhere. they're usually $10.00 or less.


----------



## Ronsonic (Nov 11, 2004)

*So many reasons it's almost silly to count them....*



filly said:


> nmnmnm


Let's hit the obvious and then gp to the one nobody's touched ....

Cultural - same reason there are dozens of black Generals and not a handful of Admirals. It just isn't a sport where there is a widely known history of success. 

Cost - not as big a deal as some are making out, but not to be ignored.

Access - hard to put in major road miles when your ride starts and ends with 5-10 miles of urban pothole and broken glass.

General obsurity - It isn't as if competitive cycling were a particularly popular sport elsewhere in America.

Here's our moment of political incorrectness:

Physical aptitude - We know from running, very briefly and generalized but accurately, the world's best sprinters are descended from West Africa, the long distance runners from East Africa and the middle distance runners from Europe. Yeah, cycling isn't running and there are exceptions, yadda yah. Still, take a look at the Olympic winners and record holders year after year and try to tell me differently.

There have been and will be black sprinters. And when Kenyans buy bikes they'll surely contend for the ultra distance stuff. Hell if they can swim worth a damn they'll probably OWN the Ironman type events. 

Road cycling is very European in its format and physical demands. 

At the lower levels that's not a big deal. Hard work trumps talent at the lower rungs of any sport, but it takes hard work and genetics in the pro's. Nobody will put in the hard work if they don't see the path to great success, see the cultural factors above. The top competitors are always exceptional and a small percentage of the whole - but the more of the general population that attempts a sport the more likely you are to find those exceptional talents. Look at Mexican race walkers, someone proved they could do it, so now so many that try the ones with a gift are found and compete. That said at the upper level of any sport there are so few with the genetic edge that we can rule some things out. We'll not see another white 100m sprinter win a gold medal and for the same reasons we won't see a black man wearing the yellow jersey. 

Of course, America (being exactly what it is and excellence being its reason to exist) is sure to produce some multi-ethnic fellow who kicks everyone's butt and defies any racial categorization.

Ron


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*just look to History instead of 'aptitude'*

Pre-Automobile, cycling is US top sport. Madison Race is named after Madison Square Garden, built to house the thousands of spectators who pay to watch bike racing. Best guy, is Black, Major Taylor, goes to europe kicks butt there. Cycling dies after the car, so does the money so does......
look pro sports are about tickets out of poverty for most. even Lance was a kid from the wrong side of the tracks and as stated here poor Euros use it as their ticket 'out'.
blacks in this country don't see it as a present viable out for cultural but mostly economic reasons. How many cyclists are earning NBA, NFL, or MLB salaries? They can't get the equipment necessarry to ride in most cases nor a venue or coach to train them but fields and basketball courts abound. So where are you going to put your energy to get your out?
In New York there's the Kissema (sp?) Velodrome where there are a # of top African American good riders. Velodrome nearness to urban areas and outreach programs by velo associations bring them in and they flourish.
You can look across the pond where Football and Baseball isn't much of an out for poor euros and voila, none trying. but Basketball is now attracting top tier talent as poor Euro kids see it as an out along with cycling and footie (soccer). 
it has very little to do with race, it has to do with opportunity for the lower classes.


----------



## Ronsonic (Nov 11, 2004)

*Okay, how about some history.*

There hasn't been an accomplished black road cyclist. Ever.

That that there couldn't or shouldn't be, but there simply hasn't. There are reasons for this outside of issues of opportunity or the stupid accusation that blacks only do sports if they can make money at it.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*no not quite*

poor people choose sports where they can make $$. the fact is that socio economically impaired people choose sports that pay in their locale. Hence no Euro NFL palyers or do you believe some genetic impairment prevents them from becoming linebackers, funny how they make great Rugby players. or maybe wait only the White Gentry have a domination of Cricket for some Genetic reason, oh well thats been shot down by the domination Indian Cricket players. and yes poor people choose sports to get them socially elevated. I have to assume you also think that Blacks make poor swimmers as well.
look globally, look what sports pay and look where the creme de la creme athletes gravitate. Funny US Soccer, with all our great stock can't compete, why it doesn't pay so the best of our best don't wind up there. Only the leisure classes pick sport for other reasons. Oh wait, Blacks make horrible Polo players as well due to something of which we dare not speak. You know they used to say this about Golf and Tennis as well. Just look at Africa, or south America, what sport pays? Soccer. where does the wealth of talent wind up? Soccer. Can they compete at the top tier, funny how so many foreign born Blacks are in the Premeirship.
in short, your argument falls under correlation does not prove causation.
Or are you trying to imply Blacks can ride Track due to their propensity for fast twitch activities (sprinting) but can't ride on the road for some reason? If so, do you find the two disciplines mutually exclusive?
if so please consult Mr Merckx or Mr Coppi.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*exhibit A*

if this guy ever took training seriously he could have a fine pro career but he's having too much fun outside of cycling. also isn't the Cuban Missile of African Descent?


----------



## Ricky2 (Apr 7, 2004)

It costs about 30 cents to race in Belgium.


----------



## X'd Out (Feb 15, 2004)

*What about Barry Forde*

Barry Forde from Barbados is considered one of the best track (keirin) cyclist in the world.


----------



## Ronsonic (Nov 11, 2004)

*Let's not get silly here.*



atpjunkie said:


> poor people choose sports where they can make $$. the fact is that socio economically impaired people choose sports that pay in their locale. Hence no Euro NFL palyers or do you believe some genetic impairment prevents them from becoming linebackers, funny how they make great Rugby players. or maybe wait only the White Gentry have a domination of Cricket for some Genetic reason, oh well thats been shot down by the domination Indian Cricket players. and yes poor people choose sports to get them socially elevated. I have to assume you also think that Blacks make poor swimmers as well..


It isn't about what I think, it's about what physical abilities go with which genetic packages. The Europeans you used as an example can indeed play linebacker. Perhaps one of them, that's perhaps and one, can play cornerback at the NFL level. That's out of the entire population of European descended people exposed to American football, all several hundred million of them, we may find a single extraordinary individual who can play cornerback at the pro level. I don't think it's that much of a stretch to suggest that finding a black TdF GC contender won't be any easier.

Ron


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*yer missing the point*

any top ranked euro athlete (Soccer, Rugby) could most likely play American football.
why they don't is cultural and not physical. It has nothing to do w/ genetics. A majority of world class athletes (Eastern Bloc countries omitted) choose their sports as tickets to a better life from their humble starts. Elite Euros don't choose American football for the same reason most blacks don't choose Cycling.
It's been shown as of present that Blacks can be tops on the track. It's been shown that
when cycling was a top dollar sport in America a black rose to the top. What this shows is your only genetic argument must have to do with 'fast twitch' musculature and cycling but I proved that false by showing other great trackies (Coppi and Merckx) to show road and track cycling are not exclusive. (see Brad McGee for present representations). So what 'unspoken genetic factor' are you referring to. My position stays the same, every genetic argument regarding certain races and certain sports to date has been proven wrong (see tennis and golf). I can safely predict that if cyclists were earning en masse what Marquis Sports (Football, Hoop, Baseball) were making in America we'd see more 
black cyclists. Since it isn't (like soccer) this sport attracts more second tier athletes in the USA.
Look at soccer, our women dominate but our men don't, why?
because the best of our best (women) gravitate to that sport because of it's popularity
and $. It's why with all our $, training facilities, etc.. we don't attract top tier talent to the non top tier sports (there are exceptions, but rare)


----------



## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

Ronsonic said:


> It isn't about what I think, it's about what physical abilities go with which genetic packages. The Europeans you used as an example can indeed play linebacker. Perhaps one of them, that's perhaps and one, can play cornerback at the NFL level. That's out of the entire population of European descended people exposed to American football, all several hundred million of them, we may find a single extraordinary individual who can play cornerback at the pro level. I don't think it's that much of a stretch to suggest that finding a black TdF GC contender won't be any easier.
> 
> Ron


I'm not sure when NFL football became the standard of athletic achievement or skill. I think Hemingway was right: it's just an athletic game....but that's beside the point. I'd like someone to point out how it is that Europeans are so genetically handicapped that they can't play something like American football? 

There is no genetic basis from which a person can justify the lack of Blacks in cycling....or Euros in the NFL. As many others have pointed out, there are plenty of cultural reasons and socio-economic reasons but not a single genetic reason.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*having had first hand experience*

with some NFL players (I've done some work for the SD Chargers) seeing a 290 lb guy who can bench 400 plus pounds and can outrun you in a sprint is quite impressive.
I'm not slagging or promoting any sport but even those big linemen are in fine shape. Albeit some have 'guts' but it's just intentional ballast. makes them harder to move, 2 guys of equal strength, speed and fitness in the pit, the heavier one has the advan.
Now they aren't gonna win any bike races, or 10 k's but for what their job requires they are quite fit. It's all burst stuff, so trying to use a CV model on them would be akin to saying sprinters aren't in shape as they can't run quick 10K's.
but you are right, any big strong euro whose playing Pro rugby, if he was raised here would have most likely played football. The east Bloc countries actually had the good model. They would test kids and find their 'ideal sport' to the individual. Since economics weren't the driving force (an elite pro Soviet Hockey Player / Gymnast, etc) they all got paid relatively the same. It's why (besides all the juice) the eastern bloc produced such great athletes as the state chose the sport, so economic, social factors, etc.. didn't draw athletes to sports where they may be only of average ability.


----------

