# In need of a LARGE setback on seatpost



## dlhillius (Mar 21, 2011)

Recently spent some time with a Master BG Fitter and after three hours and several attempts to solve one lingering issue, we decided to postpone the final fitting until I can find a proper seatpost.

Here's the deal.....I have ridiculously long femers and am in need of a very large setback on my seatpost. I currently am on a 58cm S-Works Roubaix with the stock 21mm setback S-Works post and a SMP Lite 209 saddle slammed all the way back on it. In the words of my fitter, and I quote "Holy crap......I've NEVER had to slam a seat back that far before. That's just crazy"

We talked a bunch of options and the two posts that kept coming up were the FSA 32mm setback and the Ritchey "Wayback" with 45mm. I have the FSA in a 31.6mm post on my foul weather bike. That same saddle is still slammed way back but is more stable then the Spesh post. I could buy any 25mm setback post but the extra 4mm really won't make that much of a difference.

My questions are these:

1) Does anyone have any experience with the Ritchey "wayback" in a 27.2mm? and if so, what are your opinions?

2) Keeping esthetics and quality as priorities, does anyone know of any other options for a setback of AT LEAST 40mm?


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## bikes4fun (Mar 2, 2010)

This won't esthetically match an S-works, but the setback is huge.
http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/sp3.htm


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Oval Concepts used to make a fairly nice-looking 10 to 50mm adjustable-setback carbon post (the 'Aergo').

But apparently they don't anymore. MIght be a job for Ebay.


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## nhluhr (Sep 9, 2010)

32mm of setback and recently tested by Velo Mag to have some of the best vibration damping qualities of any post available (to keep the smooth ride theme of your Roubaix):

K-Force Light SB32 seatpost


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## dlhillius (Mar 21, 2011)

@bikes4fun- Yup.....not going to look right at all on the bike but certainly has a chunk of setback. Thanks for looking 

@Systemshock- Hadn't heard of that post before. Google, here I come )

@nhluhr- I really do like my FSA post on the foul weather bike and it seems that since the handlebars and stem are FSA on the Roubaix, I may end up with it there too. My thoughts with the Ritchey was more setback to keep the seat centered plus I could easily de-badge it for cosmetics.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

dlhillius said:


> Recently spent some time with a Master BG Fitter and after three hours and several attempts to solve one lingering issue, we decided to postpone the final fitting until I can find a proper seatpost.
> 
> Here's the deal.....I have ridiculously long femers and am in need of a very large setback on my seatpost. I currently am on a 58cm S-Works Roubaix with the stock 21mm setback S-Works post and a SMP Lite 209 saddle slammed all the way back on it. In the words of my fitter, and I quote "Holy crap......I've NEVER had to slam a seat back that far before. That's just crazy"
> 
> ...


Hi,
First allow me to diss on your 'master fitter'. Long femur length as it relates to KOPS and setback is a MYTH. There is no basis in fact. If you want perhaps the best review of fit on the web, read Peter White's comments about saddle setback....Google it. Peter's comments are perhaps the most insightful ever penned on the subject including Steve Hogg's excellent writing. Peter correctly states that saddle setback is perhaps the most important metric of bike fit and I agree btw.

First let me say, we share a few things. We both ride a 58 Roubaix. Btw, how tall are you and what is your cycling inseam? I am 6'1" with 35.25" inseam from PB to ground as a data point. Forget femur length. It is only one sub metric. Preference in terms of riding position, how many watts you lay down, handlebar height, upper body mass trump your femur to tibia length ratio. A track sprinter will want to be on top of the BB and distance rider like myself will want to be well behind it. The stock 21mm setback seatpost on the Roubaix as it turns out is too little setback for me as well. The 2 bolt S-works 25 mm post however is likely the sweetspot just behind center...or enter the mentioned FSA K-force lite 32mm setback post I ride....see below. Note how my Toupe saddle is pushed well forward on the rails. The good news is, the FSA post is a vastly better design than virtually all other posts out there. It has a much longer clamp than the stock 1 bolt Spesh post in particular. This allows for all back or all forward position without compromise to seat rail bending independent of rider weight however it does limit fore/aft adjustment. Initially I set the post up in the middle of its travel and rode the bike with 115mm of setback and found it too be too much even for this distance rider. Peter writes correctly that setback should be as forward as possible with very little weight on the hands. As a sidebar the reason why this is so important is...tension in the upper body robs energy from powering the bicycle and of course the glutes can be enlisted more readily with more setback...but make no mistake there is a clear sweetspot and too much medicine is as bad as not enough...in particular too much setback moves rider weight too far back over the rear wheel and closes the hip angle limiting an aero riding position.

My advice is...do not ride with setback greater than the 32mm FSA post with your 73 deg Roubaix sta. Buy the FSA 32mm post and experiment with saddle position by pushing it forward and back.
I can ride the 25mm FSA K-force post probably a hint behind clamp center for the same position and may in fact substitute this post for one but will likely experiment a bit more before I decide.

Hope that helps.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*thoughts...*

Several things affect the saddle setback - the STA, the post and the saddle. If your bike has a 73 degree STA, that's good. If your legs are on the short side, a 3cm lower saddle height will reduce the maximum setback by about 1cm. Many popular saddles these days tend to have short rails and don't allow a lot or rearward saddle movement and that's bad.

I suspect that your fitter is trying to put your knee joint directly over the pedal spindle. While that's not necessarily a bad thing, you should also consider your weight balance over the saddle and the bike's front to rear weight balance. You want the saddle back far enough that you can "hover" your hands over the brake hoods or hooks. If the saddle is really too far forward, you'll have a significant weight on your hands and the strength of your midsection will not be enough to hold you in position without a lot of hand support.

I check the front to rear weight balance of the bike, with my hands in the hooks and my fingers in reach of the brake levers - the position I use for mountain descents. The upper back should also be as low as you're comfortable with. I like to see about 45 percent of the weight on the front wheel, in that position. If the saddle is too far back, you're likely to see something closer to 40 percent.

If your current setup doesn't meet the above criteria, with the saddle all the way back, I'd try the 32mm FSA.


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## dlhillius (Mar 21, 2011)

@roadworthy.... Excellent information Sir. Only 'issue' I take with anything you stated is the 'dissing' of my fitter. The job I did fitting myself was damned near perfect with only my left leg, and saddle having issues. He spotted them instantly within two minutes of being on the trainer. I ended up purchasing longer TI spindles for my speedplays and some footbeds to help with my left leg issues, that being both popping out on upstroke and slight 'circling' when pedaling. Solved the problems immediately. We spent nearly two hours working on height/setback in order to get that perfect balance of 'hanging' from my saddle and ended up calling it a day. 

As of today, I just mounted up the FSA 32SB post and went on a quick 20 mile out and back. Here's what I noticed. First, the saddle felt MUCH stiffer and well supported vs. my S-Works' bouncing from my a$$ being so far back. Second, the ability to absorb road vibration seemed equal to my previous post and I was quite happy with that. And third, esthetically, this post is money and works beautifully with the rest of the bike. BIG smile here! 

Thank you again for the great information in regards to Peter White. Here's the measurements I sent to Competitivecyclist some months back. Lemme know some opinions....they're always welcome.

Measurements
-------------------------------------------
Inseam: 35
Trunk: 26.5
Forearm: 13.375
Arm: 27.25
Thigh: 26
Lower Leg: 23
Sternal Notch: 60.5
Total Body Height: 73.25



@ C-40 Also a big thank you for your insight. A curiosity I've had in terms of front/rear weight distribution has been this.....how do you measure something like that?....two scales and a balancing act??? The best I can come up with is feel. Do I 'feel' like I'm hanging from my saddle? Do I 'feel' like I still have power?? Do I 'feel' like my arms aren't holding me up??? 

Again, it seems the last piece of the puzzle is getting my saddle right where I need it....we'll see how the next few weeks goes.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

dlhillius said:


> @roadworthy.... Excellent information Sir. Only 'issue' I take with anything you stated is the 'dissing' of my fitter. The job I did fitting myself was damned near perfect with only my left leg, and saddle having issues. He spotted them instantly within two minutes of being on the trainer. I ended up purchasing longer TI spindles for my speedplays and some footbeds to help with my left leg issues, that being both popping out on upstroke and slight 'circling' when pedaling. Solved the problems immediately. We spent nearly two hours working on height/setback in order to get that perfect balance of 'hanging' from my saddle and ended up calling it a day.
> 
> As of today, I just mounted up the FSA 32SB post and went on a quick 20 mile out and back. Here's what I noticed. First, the saddle felt MUCH stiffer and well supported vs. my S-Works' bouncing from my a$$ being so far back. Second, the ability to absorb road vibration seemed equal to my previous post and I was quite happy with that. And third, esthetically, this post is money and works beautifully with the rest of the bike. BIG smile here!
> 
> ...


Cool. We are about the same size with same leg length. The flex of the FSA K-force lite seatpost has been measured and very close to that of the single bolt Spesh post...but with a much better clamp design as you know. I really wanted a two bolt post anyway independent of needing more setback which we both do. Curious that Spesh places both the single and 2 bolt post on their top of the line bikes. The 2 bolt Spesh post btw is 25 versus 21mm of setback and to me the 2 bolt is a much better design. The single bolt is a clever design but a single bolt will never match the support and easy of adjustment of a 2 bolt seatpost clamp. Plus...the 10 ft-lb bolt torque is excessive for tuning saddle position out on the road. Less than that and the saddle tilt slips. Also we are fortunate that Spesh has the wisdom to make these great bikes with std. 27.2mm round post versus a proprietary V section post which would make us stuck with stock offset and whatever clamp design comes from a given mfr....a real show stopper for me and another reason I bought a Specialized bike. 

Let me know where you end up positioning your saddle on the 32mm setback FSA seatpost. I am about 6mm 'forward; of clamp center line as of right now and therefore may opt for FSA's 25mm version of the K-force post. Also if you want a further metric, place a plum bob off the front of the saddle. I am about 108mm of setback with my saddle height of 77cm which is a bit low because of my mid cleat mtg position...my personal preference. This is another reason I need a bit more setback as I run my saddle a touch lower due to my cleat position but my body CG doesn't change of course...setback naturally increasing by sine of sta. X saddle height. As a data point among top racers...some of which ride a lot of setback in spite of their very low handlebar position...more setback closes hip angle and makes it harder to get into a aero position...both Tom Bonnen and Andy Scleck...both over 6' tall ride wth 115mm of setback....Hincappie is in the 100+ range. These are the best riders in the world who put down mega watts to the pedals and yet they choose to ride well back behind the BB center.


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## dlhillius (Mar 21, 2011)

Oh ya....I've seen Boonen's and Schlecks' setback and it's quite a bit.....from what I see, both of them have quite long wingspans and that could certainly factor in to things. 

I've never actually compared setback from one saddle to another and don't know if comparing my SMP Lite 209 to your saddle would give an accurate number. I honestly have no clue if the eagle beak nose on the front of the SMP makes for a longer saddle or not but I'll measure it tonight and see what I come up with.


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## dlhillius (Mar 21, 2011)

LOL....I didn't think I was THAT far back but WOW!

Saddle setback is 135mm and height is 790mm and it felt pretty good last night on the out and back. I'm betting though that I'll end up pushing it forward as I work toward that sweet spot of power and comfort......money says in the 125-130 range but time will tell. 

You and others have posed the practice of weight distribution over KOPS and after reading your Peter White reference, I'm in agreement. Here's what I'm still having trouble grasping, and fix my 'stupid' if it is so, how does one actually measure such a thing?....two scales and some serious balancing???


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

dlhillius said:


> LOL....I didn't think I was THAT far back but WOW!
> 
> Saddle setback is 135mm and height is 790mm and it felt pretty good last night on the out and back. I'm betting though that I'll end up pushing it forward as I work toward that sweet spot of power and comfort......money says in the 125-130 range but time will tell.
> 
> You and others have posed the practice of weight distribution over KOPS and after reading your Peter White reference, I'm in agreement. Here's what I'm still having trouble grasping, and fix my 'stupid' if it is so, how does one actually measure such a thing?....two scales and some serious balancing???


Hi dlhil,
As you correctly state, choice of saddle has to affect the 'convention' of setback measurement. This is why it is only a metric. Consider is a means to keeping track of your fore/aft position and nothing more meaningful. KOPS is baloney or close enough as a starting point. Most recreational riders will prefer behind KOPS however. Guys who ride recumbents do fine without KOPS...lol. Is KOPS a decent starting point...sure. But how do you get good at anything? Dogged trial and error, refinement and practice. Experiment with every possible position. If you can afford it, with a power meter and in a wind tunnel...lol. Seriously you have to try different setback positions to hone in on what works best for you. It is also application dependent. A guy who races crits may prefer a more saddle forward position than a guy who routinely rides centuries.
The scale method or determining the weight over each wheel that C40 writes about...is simply another metric. No foul if that is how you want to keep score of your fore/aft weight distribution of course. C40 can describe his technique. The scale method can be used with one or two scales. The important point is...the bike has to be dead level...which is also critical when you measure off the front of the saddle dropping a plum bob as well. Place a level on the ground to ensure you bike is level.

As to your saddle height...you run a full 20mm higher than me...in part due to cleat position...I ride with mine pushed back...and that means you will have more setback naturally as a function of your sta as the saddle is pushed up higher. 

Be sure to update the thread to let us know what you learn in your experimentation. No fitter can put you in the best position....nor will any measurement value, be it an integer value of distance or weight define what is the best position for you. These values or magnitudes will help you keep score in your search however. You can only find the best position yourself through experimentation as Peter White explains in his thoughful article.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

On an SMP you sit very far back compared to a lot of saddles. SMPs also have very long rails.


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## dlhillius (Mar 21, 2011)

roadworthy said:


> Hi dlhil,
> As you correctly state, choice of saddle has to affect the 'convention' of setback measurement. This is why it is only a metric. Consider is a means to keeping track of your fore/aft position and nothing more meaningful. KOPS is baloney or close enough as a starting point. Most recreational riders will prefer behind KOPS however. Guys who ride recumbents do fine without KOPS...lol. Is KOPS a decent starting point...sure. But how do you get good at anything? Dogged trial and error, refinement and practice. Experiment with every possible position. If you can afford it, with a power meter and in a wind tunnel...lol. Seriously you have to try different setback positions to hone in on what works best for you. It is also application dependent. A guy who races crits may prefer a more saddle forward position than a guy who routinely rides centuries.
> The scale method or determining the weight over each wheel that C40 writes about...is simply another metric. No foul if that is how you want to keep score of your fore/aft weight distribution of course. C40 can describe his technique. The scale method can be used with one or two scales. The important point is...the bike has to be dead level...which is also critical when you measure off the front of the saddle dropping a plum bob as well. Place a level on the ground to ensure you bike is level.
> 
> ...


I certainly will update as time goes on. I'll be curious tomorrow as I'm probably going for a 35-40 mile ride first thing in the morning. One Cat 5 and some big rollers with one nice long, flat section. A good all around 'test' ride.

One interesting bit too....I run Speedplay Zeros and my cleats are also pushed totally back.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

dlhillius said:


> I certainly will update as time goes on. I'll be curious tomorrow as I'm probably going for a 35-40 mile ride first thing in the morning. One Cat 5 and some big rollers with one nice long, flat section. A good all around 'test' ride.
> 
> One interesting bit too....I run Speedplay Zeros and my cleats are also pushed totally back.


Speedplay makes 'extension plates' that allow more aft placement of Speedplay cleats. 
So there is pushing the cleats rearward on the stock Speedplay plates...versus...using the Speedplay 'extension plates'. Like many aspects of fit, cleat placement depends on philosophy as well. Some espouse as far back as 'mid arch' placement. I like the position of the Speedplay extension plates that is well behind the ball of the foot but well forward of mid arch.


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## dlhillius (Mar 21, 2011)

~35 miles with two Cat 5 hills, a long flat and some rollers......here's what I've noticed:

Again, much more stable than the S-Works post. Stopped about 10 miles into ride to nose up the saddle. (See attached)

Hesitated to push it back more but I may change my mine.....I still didn't totally feel like I'm 'hangin' from my saddle and actually got a bit of numb fingers in the first 10. Nose up a tad helped. 

Planning a 70-80+ mile ride on Sunday.....more updates to follow.

To all....thank you for your input. You're why I enjoy forums


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## UrbanPrimitive (Jun 14, 2009)

Well, this may be a day late and dollar short, but in the interest of anyone who searches for this later, I have a tid bit to share:

Super big setback seatpost - The Nitto S-84

It may not be the most elegant solution, but if you have to get that frame to fit you and your riding style, it can do the job.


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## RoadrunnerLXXI (Jun 3, 2012)

bikes4fun said:


> This won't esthetically match an S-works, but the setback is huge.
> Nitto Lugged seat post 27.2 x 250 - 11048


The setback on the seatpost looks like a turle's head to me.


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## dlhillius (Mar 21, 2011)

Update:

75 mile OAB yesterday . Five Cat5's and started climbing from just above sea level to almost 1800ft. Mostly shoulder riding on good pavement but some rough patches here and there. 

I think I'm really close now. After nosing up the saddle, it just helped me hang a bit more and eliminated the numb fingers. Still had good power when I'd punch away from the other riders up hills and felt equal muscle engagement. Any time I push the saddle forward, it seems my quads take over and nothing else. Never noticed any issue with support or saddle movement.....that's a huge plus.

All in all, I'm very happy buying the 32mm setback FSA post. It looks great and does exactly what I need it to.

To all....thank you again for your suggestions and informative information. Much appreciated


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

dlhillius said:


> Update:
> 
> 75 mile OAB yesterday . Five Cat5's and started climbing from just above sea level to almost 1800ft. Mostly shoulder riding on good pavement but some rough patches here and there.
> 
> ...


You are welcome dlhil. Glad the post is working out for you. I love mine as well....to me the FSA K-force lite is the best road bike seat post on the market...available in two offsets + 0 offset. For saddle tilt, I position the Toupe nose up with the tail of the saddle tilted down about 1 deg from horizontal...almost level. Fore/aft Toupe is about 4mm forward of clamp center or so.
Cheers.


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