# American Bikes 9 of top 10



## Bee-an-key (May 5, 2007)

Trek, Specialized, Felt, Cannondale take the top 9 of 10 spots equipment wise. SRAM up there as well. Colnago and Bianchi not even in the tour. Looks like the exotics are becoming even more exotic. God help us Euro fans.


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## lactic acidosis (Jul 24, 2006)

Is this all personal opinion or was their some type of survey conducted?


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## olr1 (Apr 2, 2005)

American bikes or American bike companies who-have-out-sourced-the-actual-business-of-bike-making-to-somewhere-in-the-world-where-labour-costs-are-so-much-lower-than-the-cost-would-be-if-we-made-them-in-the-US?

I've no axe to grind about bikes made outside the US, but the idea of an 'American bike' is a bit of a vague one these days....


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## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

Gotta admit that Cannondale is sweet. I remember hearing it weighs in at 12 or 13lbs with everything but they had to add weight in the seatpost to bring it up to TDF weight spec. I saw some sweet Willers, Look and Time too. Interesting at the top finishing bike mfgs.


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## El Guapo (Dec 10, 2002)

Taiwanese bikes take 9 of the top 10 places in the TdF.

I know that Treks are supposedly still made in Waterloo, WI. But, Specialized and Felt both outsource.

Orbea, the one as you would say "non-American" company in the top-10 can't even be called a Spanish bike as it isn't even made anywhere on the Iberian peninsula.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

This is really a question of technology and where it comes from at the front of the pack. With proper supervision and great technology you can train chimpanzees to make carbon fiber parts.

The fact is, the US has continued to blaze the trail in this field. Everyone else follows--some several years behind.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

SwiftSolo said:


> The fact is, the US has continued to blaze the trail in this field. Everyone else follows--some several years behind.



What facts form the basis for this statement? Toray is the world's largest manufacturer of carbon fiber, and it's Japanese.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Carbon fiber is the raw material, engineering, design and construction are what makes the technology.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

davidka said:


> Carbon fiber is the raw material, engineering, design and construction are what makes the technology.


Apparently not. The other guy just said you can train chimpanzees to make carbon parts.


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## M-theory (Jul 16, 2009)

There was a thread awhile back which posed the question...Which would you rather have, A Trek Madone or a Colnago. 

Honestly, I'd rather have a Madone. And I do!


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## toast (Jan 6, 2005)

*both*



M-theory said:


> ...Which would you rather have, A Trek Madone or a Colnago.
> Honestly, I'd rather have a Madone. And I do!


I just got both, because I couldn't figure out what the differences were that people were arguing about.

But it is nice to see US bikes doing well. I would bet that at leat the 3 Trek's were made here...


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## shabbasuraj (May 14, 2005)

Bee-an-key said:


> Trek, Specialized, Felt, Cannondale take the top 9 of 10 spots equipment wise. SRAM up there as well. Colnago and Bianchi not even in the tour. Looks like the exotics are becoming even more exotic. God help us Euro fans.



Define American bike.......................






































that is what I thought.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Pinarello - Lambo
Trek - Ford
Colnago - Ferrari
Spesh - GM
Giant - Toyota

They all go as fast as the rider can, but some have style and heritage.


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## jerm182 (Jul 18, 2008)

albert owen said:


> Pinarello - Lambo
> Trek - Ford
> Colnago - Ferrari
> Spesh - GM
> ...


+1 on they all go as fast as the rider can. Put my fat arse on any of these, and they are all just Pintos with flat tires and blown head gaskets.

-1 on comparing bikes to cars though. I never can understand why people do that. Crap, I think I just neg'd myself. 

I could be wrong, but I can't really find too many faults with any of the top bike brands being produced today. They all make really nice bikes. They are all capable of very high performance. And they are all generally very reliable.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

jerm182 said:


> I could be wrong, but I can't really find too many faults with any of the top bike brands being produced today. They all make really nice bikes. They are all capable of very high performance. And they are all generally very reliable.


I agree with this. Speaking personally, the best bike I have ever ridden in the new TCR Advanced.


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

SwiftSolo said:


> This is really a question of technology and where it comes from at the front of the pack. With proper supervision and great technology you can train chimpanzees to make carbon fiber parts.
> 
> The fact is, the US has continued to blaze the trail in this field. Everyone else follows--some several years behind.


You're funny.


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## seeborough (Feb 3, 2004)

M-theory said:


> There was a thread awhile back which posed the question...Which would you rather have, A Trek Madone or a Colnago.
> 
> Honestly, I'd rather have a Madone. And I do!


And I am sure that you made a fine choice, nothing wrong with a Madone. Then again, I have never met anyone who decided to shell out a couple of grand on a bicycle only to turn around and loudly proclaim their failure on an internet forum. 

We don't do that on RBR, it'd make us look like idiots to more than just the non-cycling public.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

M-theory said:


> There was a thread awhile back which posed the question...Which would you rather have, A Trek Madone or a Colnago.
> 
> Honestly, I'd rather have a Madone. And I do!


Good for you, so long as you have a bike you enjoy. But as for me, I've NEVER understood why someone spends $3k+ on an off-the-peg sized bike. You can get a custom sized bike, with the frame actually made in America for a great deal less than a Madone or a Colnago.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

FondriestFan said:


> What facts form the basis for this statement? Toray is the world's largest manufacturer of carbon fiber, and it's Japanese.


You mean aside from being 9 out of 10 in the TDF?

To begin with, I'd suggest that Iran's world standing in oil production may not be indicative of their standing in automobile technology--as an example of the flaw in associating raw materials with technology.

NASA has long held the lead role in composite technology due to the requirements of space travel. Most of state of the art methods have been developed for or by them. That has been the case since the mid 70's.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Consumers such those here are the reason why "American" bikes were in the Tour in the first place. Consumers who continue to buy "American" bikes are the reason why they are assured to keep on appearing in the Tour. All of the bikes that placed in the top 10 crossed the finish line in the positions they did because of the people who assembled them, maintained them and by far most of all raced on them. Frames are merely the chassis. Components, Sram, Shimano, Campagnolo and etc. make the cockpit, brakes, transmission, drive train and wheel bearing. The cyclist is the engine. 


However, if this true:

Pinarello = Lambo
Trek = Ford
Colnago = Ferrari
Spesh = GM
Giant = Toyota

Then:

Time = Bugatti Veyron


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

SwiftSolo said:


> You mean aside from being 9 out of 10 in the TDF?
> 
> To begin with, I'd suggest that Iran's world standing in oil production may not be indicative of their standing in automobile technology--as an example of the flaw in associating raw materials with technology.
> 
> NASA has long held the lead role in composite technology due to the requirements of space travel. Most of state of the art methods have been developed for or by them. That has been the case since the mid 70's.


WTF? These bikes are made in Asia, first of all.
Second of all, the fact that more teams are sponsored by American bike companies is more an indication of the amount of money available to them, not because of superiority in carbon technology.

Good grief.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

SwiftSolo said:


> You mean aside from being 9 out of 10 in the TDF?
> 
> To begin with, I'd suggest that Iran's world standing in oil production may not be indicative of their standing in automobile technology--as an example of the flaw in associating raw materials with technology.
> 
> NASA has long held the lead role in composite technology due to the requirements of space travel. Most of state of the art methods have been developed for or by them. That has been the case since the mid 70's.


just put it down and walk away


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## SantaCruz (Mar 22, 2002)

Marc said:


> You can get a custom sized bike, with the frame actually made in America for a great deal less than a Madone or a Colnago.


+1 - I'm in the camp that tries to support the craftsmen in our sport.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

FondriestFan said:


> WTF? These bikes are made in Asia, first of all.
> Second of all, the fact that more teams are sponsored by American bike companies is more an indication of the amount of money available to them, not because of superiority in carbon technology.
> 
> Good grief.


I think you may still be having a little trouble separating labor from technology! I'd suggest that the location of an assembly line may not be related to the technology and inventiveness of the product. Sometimes it does have an impact on the quality of workmanship--but not the quality of the technology.


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

SwiftSolo said:


> I think you may still be having a little trouble separating labor from technology! I'd suggest that the location of an assembly line may not be related to the technology and inventiveness of the product. Sometimes it does have an impact on the quality of workmanship--but not the quality of the technology.


Dude, stop waving that flag for a minute. Taiwan is the epicenter, and has been for well over a decade, of CF bike parts manufacturing _and _ engineering. All of the know-how is concentrated on that island. They aren't chimpanzees, you know.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

SwiftSolo said:


> I think you may still be having a little trouble separating labor from technology! I'd suggest that the location of an assembly line may not be related to the technology and inventiveness of the product. Sometimes it does have an impact on the quality of workmanship--but not the quality of the technology.


Technology? The technology involved in making the carbon fiber lies with Toray in Japan. 

Want to talk about bike frames specifically? Time weaves their own carbon. 

The idea that the rest of the world is years behind the US in carbon fiber technology is completely false.

But, if you're referring to some specific technology, by all means, explain it.


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## Zampano (Aug 7, 2005)

I see this simply as a reflection of the power of American consumerism, and the growth of road riding in the U.S.


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## Time2ride (Apr 12, 2009)

Bee-an-key said:


> Trek, Specialized, Felt, Cannondale take the top 9 of 10 spots equipment wise. SRAM up there as well. Colnago and Bianchi not even in the tour. Looks like the exotics are becoming even more exotic. God help us Euro fans.


Who that has the most money has the most clout! It's as simple as that.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

rogger said:


> Dude, stop waving that flag for a minute. Taiwan is the epicenter, and has been for well over a decade, of CF bike parts manufacturing _and _ engineering. All of the know-how is concentrated on that island. They aren't chimpanzees, you know.


Must be because of the concentration of world-class cyclists in Taiwan who consult with their world-class designers / engineers to come up with the world-class designs! Yah, Right!!

Understand that manufacturing is only remotely related to design and engineering. Be assured that the leading brands have full time representitives at the oversees facilities who bring the designs and engineering with them. Those representitives are also charged with oversight of quality control.

I have some products made in China that I import for sale here. The design, the materials, and the supervision of quality come from the US.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

albert owen said:


> I agree with this. Speaking personally, the best bike I have ever ridden in the new TCR Advanced.


The old TCR Advanced's not bad either, actually. I quite like it.


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

Bee-an-key said:


> Trek, Specialized, Felt, Cannondale take the top 9 of 10 spots equipment wise. SRAM up there as well. Colnago and Bianchi not even in the tour. Looks like the exotics are becoming even more exotic. God help us Euro fans.


It's a good thing Saxo Bank went with Specialized this year, Andy Schleck won LBL and 2nd place at the tour.
I also think that Fabian Cancellara is damned liar. A couple of years ago he was praising his Cervelo R3 now he's telling us that he's happy to be on a Specialized.

Pinarello, Orbea, Colnago, Time etc.... BEWARE!


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

MG537 said:


> It's a good thing Saxo Bank went with Specialized this year, Andy Schleck won LBL and 2nd place at the tour.
> I also think that Fabian Cancellara is damned liar. A couple of years ago he was praising his Cervelo R3 now he's telling us that he's happy to be on a Specialized.
> 
> Pinarello, Orbea, Colnago, Time etc.... BEWARE!



Heck I'd sing praise about ANY $15,000 bike someone paid me to ride, that I'd never have to buy myself.

One of Specialized's key suppliers is Giant, ironically enough.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

FondriestFan said:


> Technology?
> 
> Want to talk about bike frames specifically? Time weaves their own carbon.
> 
> .


Well golly gee--I stand corrected. If they weave their own cloth they obviously make the fastest bikes in the world!

Thanks so much for the education on composites.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Marc said:


> Heck I'd sing praise about ANY $15,000 bike someone paid me to ride, that I'd never have to buy myself.
> 
> One of Specialized's key suppliers is Giant, ironically enough.


Actually, Specialized bikes are made in China, not Taiwan. 

What does Giant supply for Specialized? I'm curious.


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## WeakMite (Feb 20, 2005)

5 of the top 6 are running SRAM


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

FondriestFan said:


> Actually, Specialized bikes are made in China, not Taiwan.
> 
> What does Giant supply for Specialized? I'm curious.


Merida, Ideal, and Giant all supply frames for Specialized.


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## baker921 (Jul 20, 2007)

Its all about money. Specifically the marketing spend divided by the number of units sold. This number has to be sustainable as it is added to the price of every new bike we buy from these manufacturers. This gives the advantage to the high volume manufacturers. It does not mean the bikes are better. What it arguably does demonstrate is the bikes are all equally acceptable for 200 miles when fitted with equivalent components and rebuilt every day by some of the best bike mechanics on earth!


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

baker921 said:


> Its all about money. Specifically the marketing spend divided by the number of units sold. This number has to be sustainable as it is added to the price of every new bike we buy from these manufacturers. This gives the advantage to the high volume manufacturers. It does not mean the bikes are better. What it arguably does demonstrate is the bikes are all equally acceptable for 200 miles when fitted with equivalent components and rebuilt every day by some of the best bike mechanics on earth!


Considering 90%+ of the bikes made and sold through dealers are made by the same 4 or 5 companies in Taiwan/China, I'd hope they all would be equally durable.


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## baker921 (Jul 20, 2007)

Marc said:


> Considering 90%+ of the bikes made and sold through dealers are made by the same 4 or 5 companies in Taiwan/China, I'd hope they all would be equally durable.


I'd hope so too and have no reason to believe otherwise. I love to watch the racing and see the new bikes but I don't think race success is any indicator of what makes a good long term bike purchase for the average rider or even amatuer racer sice the level of support they get will mask any short comings.


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## lalahsghost (Aug 27, 2007)

Trek's OCLV technology is/was pretty snazzy enough for NASA/Aerospace industry to warrant the technology for their benefit about seven or so years ago, no?

I always hear this story, but I can't find any real documentation on it.


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