# Conti Grand Prix vs Grand Prix 4000S



## Guest (Jun 25, 2014)

I bought a second hand bike with old, but low mileage, Conti Grand Prix tires. 3,500 miles later I had my first puncture flat from a simple staple. Both tires are fairly squared off, but I'm wondering how much longer I should ride on them.

I have new GP 4KS tires in the box, but don't want to waste any mileage the old tires still have unless the new tires have significantly better puncture resistance. If the staple would have likely punctured the 4KS, too, no need to change just yet. I thought some GP 4KS users might have a better idea than me. Thanks.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Ride them until you can see the grain of the casing threads through the tread.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Junk the old tires... or start carrying two spare tubes, a pump and a patch kit.

The 4000s aren't much better, IMHO, for weak resistance against stuff like tiny little staples, stones, twigs, etc.

Sell the 4000s and buy some vredestein tri-comps.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

SPlKE said:


> Junk the old tires... or start carrying two spare tubes, a pump and a patch kit.
> 
> The 4000s aren't much better, IMHO, for weak resistance against stuff like tiny little staples, stones, twigs, etc.
> 
> Sell the 4000s and buy some vredestein tri-comps.


On what authoritative basis can you say Tri-Comps are better resisting flats than Conti Grand Prix (S, or otherwise)? I have sold thousands of sets of tires (Primarily Conti, Vredestein and Vittoria) While Tri-Comps are excellent tires, the feedback I have gotten from customers mirrors my own experience, the Contis offer superior flat protection as compared to the Tri-Comps. Personally I have had as good of luck with the 4000S as I have with Gatorskins.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

frons said:


> I bought a second hand bike with old, but low mileage, Conti Grand Prix tires. 3,500 miles later I had my first puncture flat from a simple staple. Both tires are fairly squared off, but I'm wondering how much longer I should ride on them.
> 
> I have new GP 4KS tires in the box, but don't want to waste any mileage the old tires still have unless the new tires have significantly better puncture resistance. If the staple would have likely punctured the 4KS, too, no need to change just yet. I thought some GP 4KS users might have a better idea than me. Thanks.


Conti puts two small dimples on the wear surface of their Grand Prix tires as wear indicators. The dimples are usually between 1 and 3" apart. If you can still see these dimples, you are good to go.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Blue CheeseHead said:


> On what authoritative basis can you say Tri-Comps are better resisting flats than Conti Grand Prix (S, or otherwise)? I have sold thousands of sets of tires (Primarily Conti, Vredestein and Vittoria) While Tri-Comps are excellent tires, the feedback I have gotten from customers mirrors my own experience, the Contis offer superior flat protection as compared to the Tri-Comps. Personally I have had as good of luck with the 4000S as I have with Gatorskins.


Authoritative? Personal experience only.

After giving up my sew ups in the 80s, I started riding top-of-line conti clinchers exclusively.

Three years ago, I tried out a set of vred fortezza superlites. I ride vred tri-comp slicks now.

I went from numerous flats with the GPs on the same ride per year... to no flats with the vreds. My personal experience is compelling. I'll never buy contis again. For years, I thought all those flats were normal with high end clinchers.

And here's the kicker: the vreds are lighter than the lightest contis (except supersonic race tires) while being much more puncture resistant.

I can't vouch for the entry level vred tri comps, but the top line vreds are the best road tires I've ever ridden, going back to the sew ups I started with in the early 80s.

Also, the vreds handle better in all situations, especially cornering.

Try a set of vred tri comp slicks on the routes you normally ride your 4000s.


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## majbuzz (Nov 30, 2012)

Blue CheeseHead said:


> Conti puts two small dimples on the wear surface of their Grand Prix tires as wear indicators. The dimples are usually between 1 and 3" apart. If you can still see these dimples, you are good to go.


After all this time, I finally know what those dimples are for. Probably should have figured that out by now.


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## MJCBH (Nov 25, 2002)

Conti does offer the "wear indicator" dimples in the tires, but in my experience, I end up tossing the tires well before the dimples wear through because of cuts and gashes in the tires. This is one reason why I'm currently exploring other replacement alternatives to Conti.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

MJCBH said:


> Conti does offer the "wear indicator" dimples in the tires, but in my experience, I end up tossing the tires well before the dimples wear through because of cuts and gashes in the tires. This is one reason why I'm currently exploring other replacement alternatives to Conti.


That was another beef I had with the contis. On a few of them, not all, the dimples would say there was still plenty of rubber, but there would be thin spots elsewhere, down to the threads once or twice IIRC. After that, I made it a pre-ride check to examine the tires in bright sunlight before riding.

After buying lots of them, I just think the contis are over priced and ridiculously over rated, mostly by people who equate the high price with quality, and people who have never ridden any other tire.


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## scottma (May 18, 2012)

I live in an area with tons of cyclists. I would say in a big group ride, 1/2 - 2/3 are riding GP4000S. Very popular tires. I've been using them for years. I put 5k mi on a set last year. Zero flats. I changed them out this year for a new set ($40 ea online). The dimples were still there. Cant ask for much better.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

scottma said:


> I live in an area with tons of cyclists. I would say in a big group ride, 1/2 - 2/3 are riding GP4000S. Very popular tires. I've been using them for years. I put 5k mi on a set last year. Zero flats. I changed them out this year for a new set ($40 ea online). The dimples were still there. Cant ask for much better.


ditto.
For years I have run 4000s exclusively for training and racing and go an average of about 8,000 miles between flats (not that a get that much on one set of tires),
There is quantifiable data that they have about the best wet grip around, are near the top for dry grip and for rolling resistance and weight.
I'm sorry, but if you have a problem with them, it's bad luck, not the norm for those tires.
I also 
pay about $40 for them online. Really the only thing close is eve open corsas and they're only close because they are prob a tad grippier in the dry and have at most 1 watt better RR.
There is real data that indicates they aren't as flat proof and they are widely known to be scary in the wet.
nothing not to like about the contis. they're even more aero.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Not to be a pill here, but I think you should try some top-end vreds before you declare that contis the best.

I honestly guarantee that you won't be sorry.

Again, I was a long-time conti rider who, on a whim, tried some vred fortezza superlites which were on sale. It opened my eyes to what I had been missing.


Edit to add: I say this with Peace and Love.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

SPlKE said:


> Authoritative? Personal experience only.
> 
> After giving up my sew ups in the 80s, I started riding top-of-line conti clinchers exclusively.
> 
> ...


Your original post was very matter of fact...based on opinion. Got it. Your experience is different than others, including mine. That's fine. 

I sell both Tri-Comps and GP4000S tires and would not sell crap, so I would agree Tri-Comps are fine tires. While I have tried the Tri-comps, I pulled them off before they were worn out due to flats and went back to Conti. 

Passion for one over the other is as justified as one might have for Ford vs Chevy.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

SPlKE said:


> Not to be a pill here, but I think you should try some top-end vreds before you declare that contis the best.
> 
> I honestly guarantee that you won't be sorry.
> 
> ...


Nothing meant personal, but why would I? If I have no issues with the tires, they don't flat for me etc, I can get them for $40 routinely, and every test known to mankind puts them at or near the top in every category of performance? and the few tests I can find that include Vreds seem to have them pretty much in the middle of the pack.
Havent noticed any yet that handle Vred rolling resistance, but if they're in the middle of the pack on that, too, you're essentially asking me to throw away wattage equal to perhaps 5 percent of the performance gains Ive made with a year of hard training... on top of another watt or two of aero drag.
And some of these tests include data on puncture resistance... 
People look for patterns, and if someone gets, strictly by coincidence, a group of two or three flats relatively close in time, even though they have been on the same tires for years with no problem, some jump to the conclusion that the tires are junk, suddenly. That's what drives a great number of posts in such forums, the one person, or the 7 out of 10,000 etc, who has problems and perceives a pattern puts out their gripes. It's like angry people, who always vote in larger numbers. Why would someone who's happy with a tire start a thread about it?

Here is one small sample of the tests out there, you can google up more pretty easily.

Tour tire test Sept 2012 is here and 4000S didn't win: Triathlon Forum: Slowtwitch Forums


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## scottma (May 18, 2012)

_Another new tyre, the Fortezza SuperLite differs from its Fortezza stablemates in *lacking a puncture resistant strip. *This saves some weight - it's under 200g - and makes for a fast-rolling tyre.

It came a respectable fourth in our roll-down tests, just off the podium positions held by the two Michelins and the Supersonic. *Puncture resistance is understandably not great*, though perhaps slightly better than the Supersonic. What the tread life will be is anybody's guess.

Vredestein claim it's "developed for all types of road racing" but for anything other than solo efforts you'd probably be better off with the Vredestein Fortezza TriComp (or, indeed, the Michelin Pro 2 Race). It's rated to 174psi, which is unusually high for a 23mm clincher; heavy riders could benefit from this. The casing has 120tpi._
Vredestein Fortezza SuperLite review - BikeRadar

I'll stick with the Contis, thanks


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

I'll shut up about the vreds now.

But cornering on tricomp slicks, woo gosh, much better than the 4000s. 

There. I'm finished. Quite finished.

Peace and Love.


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## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

Another GP4000S fan here. They roll great, I rarely get punctures and I get 6k miles out of a rear tire. I'm itching to try a 28mm GP4000S II on my rear wheel (but nobody has them in stock yet.)


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## Z'mer (Oct 28, 2013)

I have over 1000 miles on a pair of 25 mm GP4000S II, no flats or problems. 
I really like them! Smooth, and fast. 

Try sourcing them on EBay versus typical UK based sellers. Prices now are under 100. / pair free priority shipping. Last winter in off season they were about 90. / pair shipped on Ebay. 

The II is a different tire from the I, at least from inspection of the side casing. My recall was the side casing on the I had a slight gloss, where the II is a flat/dull black finish.


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## Dunbar (Aug 8, 2010)

Z'mer said:


> Try sourcing them on EBay versus typical UK based sellers.


The 23's and 25's are pretty easy to find. But the 28 is vaporware at this point. *Nobody* has them. Not even at extortion level prices ($80+ shipped for one tire.) I just noticed that Cambria Bikes moved their ETA on the 28's from 6/25 back to 8/25 so there must be something going on. My guess is that the demand for the 28's was much higher than Continental anticipated.


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