# Cannondale bashing???



## Optimus (Jun 18, 2010)

There is one guy who knows his bikes quite well, who also really likes to bash Cannondales. Saying the aluminum road frame Cannondales can only last a few years, and after that, they pretty crack and explode. It drives me nuts to hear how the bashing goes on and on. Anyway, has Cannondale had any issues with their Caad line of bikes?


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## GetReal (Jul 26, 2010)

Just another example of clueless riders. My $2000 Crack'N'Fail is still going strong after 12 years while ride partners with $8000 CF and $4000 ti have had frames snap.


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

CAADs are one of the most loved aluminum bikes ever for a reason.
As for aluminum failing, I've used and abused my 2001 Schwinn Moab 1 for ten years without fail.


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## GearDaddy (Apr 1, 2004)

Seems like a tired rehashing of rather old feelings about Cannondales. I've been using an Optimo CX frame for 6 years of rough riding cyclocross. It's also been my spring/fall bike. Ain't no crackin and failin going on here. Still going strong.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

Cannondale only? On these very forums there is Trek bashing, Shimano hate, SRAM distaste etc. No matter what you like, someone out there will bash it for you. I would simply ignore the person.
The only thing worse is someone who bashes something and it truly did have a rash of problems, you happen to have a good one of them, but it still sux


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Bah. That crack-n-fail thing is old as dirt.

That said, the lifespan of a lightweight, thin-wall, hardened aluminum racing frame is what it is.


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## Sisophous (Jun 7, 2010)

Optimus said:


> There is one guy who knows his bikes quite well, who also really likes to bash Cannondales. Saying the aluminum road frame Cannondales can only last a few years, and after that, they pretty crack and explode. It drives me nuts to hear how the bashing goes on and on. Anyway, has Cannondale had any issues with their Caad line of bikes?


I agree with your friend. I love my Trek and admit I never owned a Cannondale so can't say anything negative that I can back up, but find them to be ugly bikes. Perhaps if I owned one I would change my mind.


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## ralph1 (May 20, 2006)

One word, loser......I have had 5 dales with no problems, I still have an 03 Saeco CAAD 7 and it is going strong, use it as my wet weather bike, trainer, and occasional race bike. When I line up on it at the races I get more than a few looks, people on their CF bling bikes, and me on my old Dale, phftt, i just let my legs do the talking.

cheers

Ralph


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

The CAAD 7-10's are really nice frames.


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## GetReal (Jul 26, 2010)

Sisophous said:


> I agree with your friend. I love my Trek and admit I never owned a Cannondale so can't say anything negative that I can back up, but find them to be ugly bikes. Perhaps if I owned one I would change my mind.



I have Trek, Cannondale and a few others. Between the Trek and the Cannondale, (same level, same wheelsets) the Cannondale feels much more responsive. Although only a few seconds between up hill TT efforts on long climbs, the Cannondale did feel better on the ascent.

Also, I have one snapped frame, the TREK.:cryin:


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## Elfstone (Jun 27, 2006)

I've had a caad8 since 2006 and it rides just as nice as the day I brought it home. I love my caad8 R1000, it'll still get it's share of ride time even when I bring my new custom steel bike home.

Peace


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

I have 2 CAAD's...a rain and race bike. I've abused the hell out of the CAAD7 rain bike for years...still going strong. the race is great. haters will hate (they typically have little else to do)


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Why do you care?
Do you like your bike?

Why give him so much power?

Len


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## Optimus (Jun 18, 2010)

Len J said:


> Why do you care?
> Do you like your bike?
> 
> Why give him so much power?
> ...



It's just annoying, bashing w/o any thing to support their claim.


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## ralph1 (May 20, 2006)

Here is my 03 CAAD 7 Saeco bike, it's in winter trim with crudbusters, I also have an 08 Cervelo R3-SL, and some days I prefer riding this one.

cheers

ralph


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

Cannondale's early years were somewhat controversial (conflict with Klein) and not without some QC problems. A lot of stigma lived on from that time.

All of which is made worse by people who read Wiki articles about aluminum and presume that they understand what that means for a complete bicycle frame.

If every kind of bicycle frame never fatigued and broke, the pundits of various conspiracy theories would have a leg to stand on.


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## Optimus (Jun 18, 2010)

And you know the internet is never wrong!


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

Does anyone actually make a bad frame alu frame these days? Not just name brand, but even house brands? Seems like at worst you get a flexy frame, or ugly welds.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

I have a 2.8 I got as a team deal in 1995. I used it for crits for a year, rode it as a TT bike at Masters Nats 1996, commuted on it for 7 years, TT'd on it again in Hawaii, and since 2007, it has been clamped into my computrainer getting daily abuse 3-6 months out of the year here in the PNW. I had it out the other night to tube and tune it and it didn't show any signs of exploding soon.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Well, I have a CAAD5 and a couple aluminum Colnagos, and I'll take the Colnagos over the CAAD5 every day of the week. The CAAD5 stays at my in-laws in Florida for when I visit. That thing isn't even close to being as comfortable as the Colnagos.

Also had a couple of teammates have problems with CAAD9's that they bought on a team buy. With that said, I've also read about issues with Colnagos and Pinarellos.

At the end of the day, all we have here is anecdotal information. We don't have anything statistical regarding failure rates and we don't have anything statistical regarding comfort level of the bikes. Last year, had 2 ex-teammates and another guy that races in the circles I race in break their steerer tubes on their Trek Madone 6.9's.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

bigbill said:


> I have a 2.8 I got as a team deal in 1995. I used it for crits for a year, rode it as a TT bike at Masters Nats 1996, commuted on it for 7 years, TT'd on it again in Hawaii, and since 2007, it has been clamped into my computrainer getting daily abuse 3-6 months out of the year here in the PNW. I had it out the other night to tube and tune it and it didn't show any signs of exploding soon.


That's because you are such a lightweight. LOL


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

TomH said:


> Does anyone actually make a bad frame alu frame these days? Not just name brand, but even house brands? Seems like at worst you get a flexy frame, or ugly welds.


There's some extremely heavy, and probably not so lively frames out there.


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## 2velo (Nov 15, 2008)

Sisophous said:


> I agree with your friend. I love my Trek and admit I never owned a Cannondale so can't say anything negative that I can back up, but find them to be ugly bikes...


I could understand if you're comparing a Pinarello, a BMC, a Look or something to a Cannondale but a Trek? It's not exactly a wow moment.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

People bash Treks, Cannondales, Giants, and about any other big brand bike because they think only boutique brands are legit. Saddly, most of their boutique brand bikes are made in Taiwan and China just like the big brand bikes. See the "Fake Colnago's on Ebay" thread for examples of this.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

spookyload said:


> Saddly, most of their boutique brand bikes are made in Taiwan and China just like the big brand bikes..


I wonder at this attitude, that somehow the designers at Colnago or Pina are smarter than the engineers at Trek, Specialised or Giant.
I doubt any builder, or stylist, in the world has the engineering expertise of Giant or Merida. How many employees do Colnago or Pinarello have, and how many of them are qualified engineers in composites? An old interview in Cycling mentioned Giant had over 200 engineers alone! Probably more than Pina and Colnago combined.


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## 2silent (Dec 26, 2009)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> I wonder at this attitude, that somehow the designers at Colnago or Pina are smarter than the engineers at Trek, Specialised or Giant.
> I doubt any builder, or stylist, in the world has the engineering expertise of Giant or Merida. How many employees do Colnago or Pinarello have, and how many of them are qualified engineers in composites? An old interview in Cycling mentioned Giant had over 200 engineers alone! Probably more than Pina and Colnago combined.



3 engineers focused on making the best bike they can might result in something better than 200 trying to make the cheapest bike that they can sell for the most money possible. No?


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

2silent said:


> 3 engineered focused on making the best bike they can might result in something better than 200 trying to make the cheapest bike that they can sell for the most money possible. No?


The interview was with the president of the Giant. 
With 200 engineers they can spare a lot more than three for their top tier projects. I know Colnago has a few engineers, not sure about Pina. I look at their wavy forks and think it's just an attempt to differentiate themselves in a crowded marketplace. Hetchins and others did it 60 years ago, and Pina thought they could re-invent it, like Colnago claims to have invented the straight fork.
If the wavy fork/stay was really such a good damper, more companies would use it as the idea has been around for at least 60 years. 
And I think Pina is just as concerned with making tons of money on their bikes. Instead of increasing their margin by lowering costs, they have raised their income through shrewd marketing. Oh wait, they did lower their labor cost by moving manufacturing to Taiwan, and reducing their part to stickering and painting. 
If anyone can make a serious argument for the inflated price I'd love to hear it. But please! Keep it a reasonable and sensible argument. I can see the price of a C59 because of all the costly Italian labor, but all Pina does is sticker and paint. Explain why a Dogma costs 2x what a TCR Advanced costs. Similar labor-both made in Taiwan, similar material, (shut up about Toray already, it's not frikkin ambergris for crying out loud), TCR has simple paint, Pina has elaborate paint. What else?
Unfortunately this is a pointless exercise. No point trying to reason with closed minds.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

2silent said:


> 3 engineers focused on making the best bike they can might result in something better than 200 trying to make the cheapest bike that they can sell for the most money possible. No?


I think its more like a few engineers and a lot of marketing guys trying to make the cheapest bike they can sell for the most amount of money.

I think if some of the highest end "great" frames were rebadged and not marketed at all, no one would ever discover them and they'd disappear into obscurity. People would ride them and not notice anything particularly special. 

Theres only so much engineering you can do to a couple triangles. The name sells. Ill freely admit that id rather not ride a trek because its a trek, but it is what it is. Id also not pay for a colnago (gotta draw the snob line somewhere )


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## ENVIGADO (Aug 11, 2008)

i had the choice last december to buy the giant or the pinnarello.......guess what ?
i went with the overpriced,ugly fork,fancy paint job,italian crap ......made by three engineers
no regrets.....:thumbsup:


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

spookyload said:


> People bash Treks, Cannondales, Giants, and about any other big brand bike because they think only boutique brands are legit. Saddly, most of their boutique brand bikes are made in Taiwan and China just like the big brand bikes. See the "Fake Colnago's on Ebay" thread for examples of this.


Price is the result of branding, and is almost never a measure of the amount of design or fabrication effort required to produce anything.

Cervelo advertises a small design shop, Giant and Trek a huge, faceless one. Colnago pretends that Ferrari helps them make a bike that is sold as a miracle but is little different than a Diamond Back.

What a bike is "worth" is a personal question. None of the current carbon bikes cost significantly more to make that the Chinese ebay special - so don't base your decision on the supposed process cost.

Anyway, quality design is where you find it. Watch "Carbine Williams" sometime - the story of the guy who invented a new type of rifle while in prison. The M1 Carbine was definitely a better design result than a lot of things designed by teams of professionals.


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## serfur1 (Sep 17, 2007)

Still riding this! It's a 1989 3.0 and hasn't cracked yet, and I'm no lightweight at 230.


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## Hooben (Aug 22, 2004)

I don't understand Cannondale bashing at all. Argue-ably the best aluminum bikes in the world, my CAAD 9 gives stiff competition to the lightest carbon frames out there. Fast, agile and long lasting, your friend is full of it. 
My first Cannondale was back in 1986. Dale's are here to stay.

*The only question is how many wheels will the Cannondale burn through, still looking like new...the Cannondale 2.8 from the late 80's. *


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## timeless (Jun 2, 2007)

I have to agree I do not see the point of the Cannondale bashing. I want to buy my first road bike and comparing Cannondale to lets say Trek or Specialized you get a lot more bike for a lot less money. The parts on the Cannondale are a lot better than a similarly priced Trek or Specialized bike and there is no way around that fact.

That being said it is not like I love Cannondale over those brands. My moutain Bike is a Specialized bike and the ones Cannondale make are not high on my list of my next one but Cannondales road bikes are pretty high on my list for my first road bike.
Just need the money to go out, test ride some bikes and pick out the one that fits me best.
Bugget for my road bike will be 1500-2k and lets be frank at that price range Cannondale just offers great bikes.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

Maybe Ive never noticed the cannondale bashing. Usually I hear cannondale this context:

"I want to start racing" 

"Buy a CAAD"
 

I do not race. Are caads not as common in amateur competition as I think they are?


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Optimus said:


> There is one guy who *doesn't know #$% about bikes*



fixed it for you....that guy is no expert


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

Optimus said:


> There is one guy who knows his bikes quite well, who also really likes to bash Cannondales. Saying the aluminum road frame Cannondales can only last a few years, and after that, they pretty crack and explode. It drives me nuts to hear how the bashing goes on and on. Anyway, has Cannondale had any issues with their Caad line of bikes?


There's always someone bashing some bike for any number of reasons, most of which have nothing to do with the bike.


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## Look75 (Apr 10, 2011)

Hooben said:


> I don't understand Cannondale bashing at all. Argue-ably the best aluminum bikes in the world, my CAAD 9 gives stiff competition to the lightest carbon frames out there. Fast, agile and long lasting, your friend is full of it.
> My first Cannondale was back in 1986. Dale's are here to stay.
> 
> *The only question is how many wheels will the Cannondale burn through, still looking like new...the Cannondale 2.8 from the late 80's. *



What A Gorgeous Cannondale!


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## nonsleepingjon (Oct 18, 2002)

I've had a Cannondale CAAD5 since about 2001. Here's a ride report from 2006 where I did an 8 mile loop of singletrack in the middle of a road ride. That, plus thousands of miles of riding, minor damage from shipping it cross country in a card board box, bunny hops, pot holes, minor wrecks, and various other abuses and it is still going strong.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

ENVIGADO said:


> i had the choice last december to buy the giant or the pinnarello.......guess what ?
> i went with the overpriced,ugly fork,fancy paint job,italian crap ......made by three engineers
> no regrets.....:thumbsup:


And there are hundreds of guys who are riding the same frame painted in China that paid 1/4 the price for the same ride.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

serfur1 said:


> Still riding this! It's a 1989 3.0 and hasn't cracked yet, and I'm no lightweight at 230.


NICE! It looks like a Ketchup bottle broke on the lower half of your bike! Just kidding of course. I dig it!


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Hooben said:


> I don't understand Cannondale bashing at all. Argue-ably the best aluminum bikes in the world, my CAAD 9 gives stiff competition to the lightest carbon frames out there. Fast, agile and long lasting, your friend is full of it.
> My first Cannondale was back in 1986. Dale's are here to stay.
> 
> *The only question is how many wheels will the Cannondale burn through, still looking like new...the Cannondale 2.8 from the late 80's. *


I had forgotten they used to put the rear derailleur hanger of the back of the frame like that. It used to actually start lots of controversy back in the day. Guys would guestimate how easy they would break off in a crash etc...


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## latman (Apr 24, 2004)

I still have an old 3.0 series cannondale from 1989 , the only issue i ever had with it was corrosion around the plastic "snap in" top tube brake cable guides


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## Fit4Life (Sep 11, 2009)

My 1987 Cannondale SR400 frame is going strong. I recently converted it from a road bike to a flatbar using a Shimano LX drivetrain. I just love the stiffness of the frame. I have equally enjoyed my 2008 Cannondale Cyclocross bike. It's been great for a century ride and several metrics. Both are durable and built to last.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

nonsleepingjon said:


> I've had a Cannondale CAAD5 since about 2001. Here's a ride report from 2006 where I did an 8 mile loop of singletrack in the middle of a road ride. That, plus thousands of miles of riding, minor damage from shipping it cross country in a card board box, bunny hops, pot holes, minor wrecks, and various other abuses and it is still going strong.


Yeah, but have you ever ridden a bunch of miles on a different brand bike so you can compare it to that other brand bike?


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

This thread is utterly hilarious. It has gone to a Pinarello and Colnago bashing thread.

What I am wondering is if those that swear by their Cannondale have ever really ridden anything else to legitimately compare the Cannondale to.

Even my Taiwan made Colnago Arte is more comfortable than my CAAD5, and I paid $650 for the frame. I don't think the CAAD9 on a team deal that was offered to me was even that cheap.

To those wondering why a CAAD frame is recommended for racing, it is probably because it is cheap enough to be dispossable. That is why I race on Colnago Artes and not my carbon fiber Colnagos. A lot less painful on the wallet to throw a $650 frame in the dumpster versus a $3,000 frame and a lot less painful on the heart to throw a Taiwanese made frame in the dumpster than an Italian made frame (for those of you that don't know this already, I'm an American whose parents were born in Italy).


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

I bash every bike I don't own. I own a CAAD 10 so they are :thumbsup: :thumbsup: 

Specialized and Trek? They suck..............I dont have any evidence, but it's the internet so you know it's true. 

Oh wait, my buddy owns a trek. So, Trek is :thumbsup:


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

fabsroman said:


> This thread is utterly hilarious. It has gone to a Pinarello and Colnago bashing thread.
> 
> What I am wondering is if those that swear by their Cannondale have ever really ridden anything else to legitimately compare the Cannondale to.
> 
> ...


I still have the 2.8 that I used in criteriums. It was never about comfort, it was about those extended chainstays and small rear triangle that made for a stiff sprint bike. I did do the one day version of the STP in 1997 on it, but I had a better back 14 years ago. I also had a CAAD3 that I never liked but I got a good deal from the LBS. I finally got fed up with it all and got Merckx MXL and now I have a steel Peg, steel custom Argonaut, and still have the MXL. If I ever get serious about racing again, I'll likely get a Tsunami or a CAAD 10 if it fits. There are some really nice Al racing frames out there but my back calls for steel or Ti.


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## scryan (Jan 24, 2011)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> The interview was with the president of the Giant.
> With 200 engineers they can spare a lot more than three for their top tier projects. I know Colnago has a few engineers, not sure about Pina. I look at their wavy forks and think it's just an attempt to differentiate themselves in a crowded marketplace. Hetchins and others did it 60 years ago, and Pina thought they could re-invent it, like Colnago claims to have invented the straight fork.
> If the wavy fork/stay was really such a good damper, more companies would use it as the idea has been around for at least 60 years.
> And I think Pina is just as concerned with making tons of money on their bikes. Instead of increasing their margin by lowering costs, they have raised their income through shrewd marketing. Oh wait, they did lower their labor cost by moving manufacturing to Taiwan, and reducing their part to stickering and painting.
> ...


1 great engineer can easily do the work of 2000 great engineers.... it will just take much much longer, but in honesty, having more people working on a product does not make it better... Faster yes, but at best quality doesn't suffer from trying to keep a large team on the same page not only with changes being made, but having a single idea of what the product is supposed to be and how it should be approached.

In the end, the focus and design philosophy is MUCH more important then size of staff or even quality of engineers (assuming the difference is from great to greater).

A large highly experienced team with a focus on economic design and shortest time to production will not produce a higher quality product then a small team of competent engineers focused on producing the most magnificent bike to ride.

Take a look at toyota and lotus.
The Camry and Elise use the same engine. Toyota's budget, both for R&D and hiring vastly exceeds lotus. 

Race them, and the Elise will mop up the Camry in every metric possible, from outright speed to enjoyment... Hell even likely fuel economy.

Does this mean the Engineering team behind the Elise was better (yes  ), no... The two teams had different goals. Toyota's design was based on broad market appeal and economy, and they likely did a better job hitting their goals then Lotus, who focused on driver enjoyment and performance measurements while sacrificing marketability to mainstream audiences.


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## DonDenver (May 30, 2007)

*Eliminate the negative energy around you*. CAAD or whatever subject. This guy is negative as he bashes. Rather, surround yourself with positive people…positive energy. You’ll ride faster and live longer. Same true here on the forums. Ignore the negative posters. Not worth the aggravation…sucks the life outofya.


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## Tripleblack (Apr 13, 2011)

..... Nevermind. But I will say that 2 brains are better than 1. To say that a small group of engineers is somehow better than a larger group is a bit naive. I guess some people are stuck in the 'underdog' mentality.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

fabsroman said:


> This thread is utterly hilarious. It has gone to a Pinarello and Colnago bashing thread.
> 
> What I am wondering is if those that swear by their Cannondale have ever really ridden anything else to legitimately compare the Cannondale to.
> 
> ...


Don't you have a Colnago snob thread somewhere you can be happy in? Tell everyone how you can tell a fake, then have a guy post a real one you all critisized tell he told you it was legit? Why troll here?


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## CoffeeBean2 (Aug 6, 2005)

fabsroman said:


> To those wondering why a CAAD frame is recommended for racing, it is probably because it is cheap enough to be dispossable. That is why I race on Colnago Artes and not my carbon fiber Colnagos. A lot less painful on the wallet to throw a $650 frame in the dumpster versus a $3,000 frame and a lot less painful on the heart to throw a Taiwanese made frame in the dumpster than an Italian made frame (for those of you that don't know this already, I'm an American whose parents were born in Italy).


I have had 4 Cannondales, and currently still own 2. In my opinion, Cannondales are finest crit racing bikes - they are incredibly stiff, and the shorter wheelbase and higher bottom bracket aids in the cornering needed for crit racing. The cheapness (or lack thereof) of the frames was never a consideration in my mind for choosing a Cannondale for racing. I've also had a Trek 5900, which I've also raced in crits. The Trek didn't seem as responsive compared to the Cannondales.


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## 8toes (Feb 28, 2010)

No bashing from this guy who is a former LeMond rider:

From this:









To this: and could not be happier.









Cheers,

Brian J.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

spookyload said:


> Don't you have a Colnago snob thread somewhere you can be happy in? Tell everyone how you can tell a fake, then have a guy post a real one you all critisized tell he told you it was legit? Why troll here?


LOL someone had to say it. 
Reminded me of the Monty Python slit about wine tasters....they make all kinds of cliche comments about it and John Cleese tells them "Actually, it's wee-wee".


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## RDTigger (Apr 28, 2011)

8toes said:


> No bashing from this guy who is a former LeMond rider:
> 
> 
> To this: and could not be happier.
> ...


What Cannondale is that? Sweet!


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

fabsroman said:


> This thread is utterly hilarious. It has gone to a Pinarello and Colnago bashing thread.


Zing! Right over your head buddy. 



> What I am wondering is if those that swear by their Cannondale have ever really ridden anything else to legitimately compare the Cannondale to.


Are you serious? That is pretty condescending. 
I ask you, why do you talk about carbon construction if you have never cut up the cloth for a layup, put a mold in an oven, or got high on the resin fumes...never mind the last one I only did that once LOL

PS bought a Cannondale mountain bike today out of curiosity. First afternoon was pretty good, hasn't broken yet.


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## Optimus (Jun 18, 2010)

8toes said:


> No bashing from this guy who is a former LeMond rider:
> 
> From this:
> 
> ...



Awesome bike! I like your style!:thumbsup:


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

spookyload said:


> People bash Treks, Cannondales, Giants, and about any other big brand bike because they think only boutique brands are legit. Saddly, most of their boutique brand bikes are made in Taiwan and China just like the big brand bikes. See the "Fake Colnago's on Ebay" thread for examples of this.


Ditto. They are all decent top-end bikes. Beyond that price point it is the engine is what matters. 

This is why cyclists are considered "snobs".


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

Friends don't let friends ride Cannondale.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Back in the mid 80's they were so stiff, they were brutal to ride for any distance, unless you were on a very smooth road. I remember, when they first came out, they had an ad with a bare frame laying on the floor with a guy crouching on the unsupported rear dropout. It held his weight.
I assume that they "softened" up the frame by the late 80's.


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## PigmyRacer (Oct 3, 2007)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Back in the mid 80's they were so stiff, they were brutal to ride for any distance, unless you were on a very smooth road. I remember, when they first came out, they had an ad with a bare frame laying on the floor with a guy crouching on the unsupported rear dropout. It held his weight.
> I assume that they "softened" up the frame by the late 80's.


I think even today there is no question that the CAAD series bikes are meant to be performance race bikes. They might not be as high zoot as a carbon frame. They might not be as light. But they handle well and they are durable. Comfort might still leave something to be desired but I'm not complaining. 

I think the CAAD bikes are great frames, particularly for the money.


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## o0adam0o (Jul 24, 2010)

I had a Cnnondale 1990 Aluminum Crit bike that was going strong untill it got hit by a car this year.

RIP


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## 8toes (Feb 28, 2010)

RDTigger said:


> What Cannondale is that? Sweet!


2011 Cannondale Synapse 5


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

spookyload said:


> Don't you have a Colnago snob thread somewhere you can be happy in? Tell everyone how you can tell a fake, then have a guy post a real one you all critisized tell he told you it was legit? Why troll here?


In case you haven't noticed, this isn't the Cannondale forum. This is general cycling. Read the title, decided to come in, and decided to give my opinion. Hey, if you don't like my opinion on Cannondale, don't listen to it. However, trolling I am not.

You ever ride a Colnago so you can compare it to a Cannondale?

Now, I bet you don't say anything bad about any brands out there, even the Wal-Mart specials. They are all wonderful bikes in your eyes.

Sadly, I'll be riding my Cannondale in about 2 weeks for a week's duration. I'll let you know if it grows on me any.


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## pushpull (Jun 27, 2010)

**** Cannondale!


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

dang guys..harsh.

my 1986 'custom graphics' cannondale did me good for years and years until it was stolen. i didn't have a problem with it at all and was very proud to ride it. i wanted a 'black lightning' back in the day but couldn't afford it.


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## pushpull (Jun 27, 2010)

nyvram said:


> dang guys..harsh.


The title was asking me to bash cannondales. I didn't want to, but the title told me to do it. Am I actualy supposed to read the original post before getting involved? That seems like extra work.


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

lol no u done good :thumbs up:

i kinda skimmed the thread but dont feel any special hatred to any particular bike brand or component group. i guess i need to get more opinionated


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

fabsroman said:


> You ever ride a Colnago so you can compare it to a Cannondale?


I have. Colnago sucks.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

ghost6 said:


> I have. Colnago sucks.


Blasphemy!

I have an Italian made Colnago water bottle and water tastes 37% better out of it.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Zing! Right over your head buddy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How is that condescending. Seriously? If somebody hasn't really ridden anything but Cannondale, how can they compare a Cannondale to anything? I've ridden Trek, Cannondale, Colnago, Bianchi, and Mino Denti in road bikes. I like the Colnagos the best. I've raced all of them but the CAAD5, but really wouldn't want to ever race the CAAD5. Thinking about getting a Pinarello on DeRosa as my next bike, but who knows what I will decide on when the time comes.

Now, when it comes to MTB's, the only thing I have ever owned is a Gary Fisher and I don't really put a lot of miles on it anyway.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

ghost6 said:


> I have. Colnago sucks.


Which Colnago and what didn't you like about it, and which Cannondales would you be comparing it to and how did the Cannondales do better than the Colnago?


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Blasphemy!
> 
> I have an Italian made Colnago water bottle and water tastes 37% better out of it.


Water tastes twice as good out of my Colnago water bottle, but 3 times as good out of my Camelback podium, especially the insulated ones.

Don't actually own any Colnago water bottles, only the cheap ones and the expensive Podium bottles. Some insulated and some uninsulated. I've been thinking about throwing away the cheap ones, but "waste not, want not".


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

fabsroman said:


> How is that condescending.


I make stuff, and look at things like Colnagos, Giants, differently from you. I'm not so interested in being part of a clique, or the heritage.(Which is of dubious validity anyway)
I deal with enough of that nonsense from owning Harleys LOL. 
Note the comment about Giant's engineers focussing on making the cheapest bike possible. The fact is, Giant sees the team-level bikes as halo models and could likely sell them at a loss for marketing purposes. They have enough revenue from their other lines that they could do this financially. So for someone to assume that Giant's sole objective to make cheap bikes, while Colnago and Pinarello have the objective of making the best bike possible, that is definite snobbery.
Your follow-on post implied that anyone who tried a Colnago would automatically consider it superior to a Cannondale. Obviously lots of people have tried them and not liked them enough to buy them, or have moved on to something else at the end of their service life. You are imply that these people are less knowledgable than you, when in fact they may be far more knowledgable, in terms of racing experience, in terms of different bikes used/owned, or in knowledge of fabrication.
You like Colnago, fine. But because you like it, or someone else likes Cannondale or Trek, that does not make them superior, it just means that this person likes this bike and not that one. Define the exact nature of Colnago's superiority. If Colnago is better, in what way is it better? Hard to apply a quantifiable metric when so much about a top level bike is subjective isn't it?
Colnago makes a lot of noise about Eddy Merckx using them. They never mention that they parted ways after only two or three years, and Eddy went to De Rosa, whose bikes he considered better. He also rode a lot of rather plain-jane Kessels throughout his career that wouldn't get a secong glance from anyone here if they were in different paint.
I like the look of the C59, and appreciate that Colnago is a very good builder, but so is Cannondale, so is Giant.

PS, I tried Colnago Super back in the 70s but bought a Gios instead. Gios was heavier but way stiffer and had much sharper steering. Colnago was good, just didn't suit my physique or riding preference.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> I make stuff, and look at things like Colnagos, Giants, differently from you. I'm not so interested in being part of a clique, or the heritage.(Which is of dubious validity anyway)
> I deal with enough of that nonsense from owning Harleys LOL.
> Note the comment about Giant's engineers focussing on making the cheapest bike possible. The fact is, Giant sees the team-level bikes as halo models and could likely sell them at a loss for marketing purposes. They have enough revenue from their other lines that they could do this financially. So for someone to assume that Giant's sole objective to make cheap bikes, while Colnago and Pinarello have the objective of making the best bike possible, that is definite snobbery.
> Your follow-on post implied that anyone who tried a Colnago would automatically consider it superior to a Cannondale. Obviously lots of people have tried them and not liked them enough to buy them, or have moved on to something else at the end of their service life. You are imply that these people are less knowledgable than you, when in fact they may be far more knowledgable, in terms of racing experience, in terms of different bikes used/owned, or in knowledge of fabrication.
> ...


You are implying a lot and putting a lot of words in my mouth. Show me some quotes where I said what you are implying and I will then agree with you. Until then, I will treat you as somebody looking for an argument or somebody with a lack of reading comprehension. I don't make things for a living, I read, write, and argue for a living.

On another note, in 2006 when I was trying to decide on what bike to buy, I looked at Trek, Cannondale, Specialized, Orbea, Pinarello, DeRosa, Colnago, Bianchi, and Giant TCR. Was about to buy a 928 lugged, but then found a Colnago that I could afford. Glad I was able to find it because it is definitely smoother and better handling than my Bianchi FG Lite that I bought afterward. The CAAD5 handles pretty well, but it is just uncomfortable.

Now, show me the people that have picked a Cannondale CAAD over a Colnago, and not because of price point but because of ride quality.

Also note that I agree with your alleged business model for Giant. They very well could do what you suggest. That is, put a significant amount of R&D into their top of the line race bikes and sell them at a loss just as part of their marketing because they have such a huge market share. In essence, doing this as part of their marketing since the top of the line market is such a small percentage of the entire bike market. Way more kids and adults buying bikes at Wal-Mart and Target versus the LBS high end shop.


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Blasphemy!
> 
> I have an Italian made Colnago water bottle and water tastes 37% better out of it.



Ok, I can't compete with that!


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## flaco1 (Apr 27, 2011)

This is a blast from the past, I have never heard anyone refer to this bike. I bought my C'dale Black lightning way way waay back in1984ish. I weighed approximately 140lbs(5'9") and that ride was Harsh in the saddle but No flex in the stays! I still road the snot out of it and there was not a hill in the Bronx too steep for me and my riding buddies. Sadly I tossed it last year as I couldn't take the harsh ride(herniated L5 bulging L4,L3). Bought a 4.7 last fall and looking to get back into road riding.
PS. (My C'dale 2.8 never exploded, cracked, or showed any other self destructive tendencies) 


nyvram said:


> dang guys..harsh.
> 
> my 1986 'custom graphics' cannondale did me good for years and years until it was stolen. i didn't have a problem with it at all and was very proud to ride it. *i wanted a 'black lightning' back in the day but couldn't afford it.*


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Alright. So, I am in Florida at my in-laws and had the opportunity to ride the CAAD5. Even brought down my 2nd most comfortable set of wheels in my Campy Eurus tubulars. Over the first 10 miles I thought I was going to have to eat my words on here and post a glorious review of the CAAD5. By mile 20 my hands and rear were hurting. By mile 30 my hands and rear were really hurting and my feet were starting to hurt, especially my right foot. Put in 40 miles today and I was happy to get off that bike at that point. Yep, it is no Colnago C50. Wish I had brought that bike down here so I cold do a road test with it on the exact same roads and with the exact same wheelset. I put in 30 miles on the C50 before we left for Florida and there was absolutely no discomfort, but the roads were a little nicer.


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## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

Maybe your just used to the soft ride of that Colnago. I did 50 miles (Cannondale System Six) through the moon cratered streets of downtown LA. I had no issues with my hands or rear end.

I rode my mountain bike for the first time in 1.5 years yesterday. I did the same loop on the same bike...but now my hands and shoulders are super sore. My body was no longer used to the hammering a mountain bike gives you. I'm not disputing the harshness of that CAAD5...but I'm sure that part of your discomfort is because your just not used to the harsher ride.


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## darwinosx (Oct 12, 2010)

One of my first really good bikes was a Cannondale I bought at Alans Cyclery in Oceanside Ca in 1985. It had pre indexed shifting (SIS) Shimano components and i had them put SIS on it plus Look pedals which were very new back then. My problem with Cannondale now is the way they treated their American employees when the company was sold. Basically they fired all of them with zero consideration. Cannondale will never see another dollar from me for this reason. There are plenty of great American manufacturers to choose from and I would much rather support them..


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## Mr. Jones (Jul 4, 2006)

scryan said:


> Take a look at toyota and lotus.
> The Camry and Elise use the same engine. Toyota's budget, both for R&D and hiring vastly exceeds lotus.
> 
> Race them, and the Elise will mop up the Camry in every metric possible, from outright speed to enjoyment... Hell even likely fuel economy.
> ...


I don't understand the point you're trying to make here. The argument seems to center over whether Colnago/Pinarello is better than the bigger brands. The comparison to Lotus and Toyota is different because they're not trying to make something that is fundamentally the same. Of course a mid-engine car that weighs ~2000 pounds and has no creature comforts is going to perform at a different level than a car that can accommodate five people and has the engine in the front. 

At the top of bike company lineups, basically everything is designed for racing. It's apples to apples, not apples to oranges.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

AvantDale said:


> Maybe your just used to the soft ride of that Colnago. I did 50 miles (Cannondale System Six) through the moon cratered streets of downtown LA. I had no issues with my hands or rear end.
> 
> I rode my mountain bike for the first time in 1.5 years yesterday. I did the same loop on the same bike...but now my hands and shoulders are super sore. My body was no longer used to the hammering a mountain bike gives you. I'm not disputing the harshness of that CAAD5...but I'm sure that part of your discomfort is because your just not used to the harsher ride.


I'd probably agree with you on that. We tend to get used to creature comforts like A/C and heat such that "extreme" temps really bother us. If I had always ridden a CAAD frame and never tried anything else, I could probably do something like 70 miles on the bike and still think it was comfortable because that is all I would be used to. Kind of like driving an older car or cheap car, etc. Thought the A/C in my Taurus was awesome just because the A/C in my wife's Sonata was worse. Just recharged the freon in the Taurus and now it really is awesome. I guess it all comes down to what one is used to. Plenty of people have no problem walking/running around barefoot, but my feet would hurt in less than 100 yards.


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## nonsleepingjon (Oct 18, 2002)

fabsroman said:


> Yeah, but have you ever ridden a bunch of miles on a different brand bike so you can compare it to that other brand bike?


My intent was mainly to show that Cannondales are decent bikes and won't explode after a few thousand miles. I've also put thousands of miles on a 1999 Giant Yukon that has seen everything from mountain biking to commuting to loaded touring. That, along with spins on bikes of friends and family (of various ages and price ranges) have basically shown me that any name brand bike will hold up well to normal abuses.


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## TiRelax (Jun 28, 2009)

@spookyload: Is that a huge dent on the side of your chainstay???? That's some tough Alum frame ride there!!!


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## davidalone (Nov 23, 2010)

fabsroman said:


> You are implying a lot and putting a lot of words in my mouth. Show me some quotes where I said what you are implying and I will then agree with you. Until then, I will treat you as somebody looking for an argument or somebody with a lack of reading comprehension. I don't make things for a living, I read, write, and argue for a living.
> 
> On another note, in 2006 when I was trying to decide on what bike to buy, I looked at Trek, Cannondale, Specialized, Orbea, Pinarello, DeRosa, Colnago, Bianchi, and Giant TCR. Was about to buy a 928 lugged, but then found a Colnago that I could afford. Glad I was able to find it because it is definitely smoother and better handling than my Bianchi FG Lite that I bought afterward. The CAAD5 handles pretty well, but it is just uncomfortable.
> 
> ...




your comparison, sir, is flawed.
the cannondale CAAD 5 is old technology- WAY old. circa 2002, if I believe? I own a CAAD 4 so I know what I'm talking about.

the colnago arte, meanwhile, is a 2007/2008 bike? in those 5-6 years things have changed massively, in both the deisgn and material science available. I'm not sure what aluminium both bikes use, but most mordern bikes use 6 or 7 series aluminium . I think the CAAD 5 might even be 5 series. you cant compare a 9 year old bike and a 3 year old bike. its not fair. a more fair comparison would be to take the colnago primavera versus the cannondale current CAAD8- now you're talking about similar price points and equipment and we're talking frame alone. besides, 650 for an arte ( which is not available as a frameset only) is a steal, which probably colors your perceptions. I got my cannondale CAAD 4 with dura ace 7800, fulcrum 3s, carbon seatpost and bars for 1.3K USD. 3 yeas ago, before 7900 came out. how does that compare to your 650 arte?

I used to work in a store that sold colnagos, so I did get a chance to ride the arte, primavera, the CLX 1, a friends CX-1 and pinarello F4:13. current bike is a bianchi infinito, btu I still have my cannondale CAAD 4. the colnagos were fine bikes, yes, especially enjoyed the CLX , but comparing the primavera / arte and my CAAD 4 there was nothing much to choose between them. they're just different bikes. the CLX was really enjoyable, rode a straight line well, smooth to ride, an all-day machine that could go fast, but was less willing to turn ( much like my current bianchi) . 

NONE of those bikes that I rode, however, accelerated like my CAAD 4 whn it was time to put the hammer down. It's just so stiff! my CAAD 4's carves into corners better, I dont have to coax it through. I do have to pay more attention when riding it, as its handling is a little more 'nervous', but nothing deal-breaking. its also dead hard durable. have crashed 3 times on the CAAD 4, one at 40km/h on a descent, have been rear ended by a car, and the frame is still going strong despite obvious cosemtic imperfections. when working on it I have had a few accidents with my tools which might ahev trashed my CF bianchi but has just scratched the CAAD. the new caad9s and 10s are absolutely fabulous- they are comfortble, stiff and fast- grab a caad 10 and compare it to your arte- I believe you will find it more tahn a match for comfort. as a mechanical engineering student it is very nice to see how much the engineers at cannondale ahve pushed the boundaries of a suppsoedly 'inferior' material.

with respect to comfort- proper choice of wheels, tires and pressure can increase comfort mcuh more than any different frame can, yes the caad 4 is more 'uncomfortable ', rattles more, but nothing I wont notice since the CAADS are crit bikes for shrot courses! so I dont really see the point about comfort. if you're in a crit and you feel being 'uncomfortable' is limitng your chances of winning, go train more, or change your tires and wheels. I would say you ahve more problems to worry about than being comfortable in a crit. 

in a nutshell, caads are great bikes because comparing apples to apples they offer great value for money with a good, high performing frame that is more durable than any CF frame out there. - great for the high incidence of crashing in crits! not to saythe arte isn't a good bike- it was not bad for the money- bikes are all different, you've got to choose the one that fits your riding style the most. If I were racing a crit with a nervous bunch, I'd take the CAAD. for an all rounder, or for an all day ride, I'd take my bianchi. in terms of alloy frames, CAADs are some of the best out there- ride a noodly, cheap alloy frame and you'll know the difference. 

have never ridden the CF cannondales, but can't comment on them. but I like cannondale as a company. cannondale earns my respect more than giantor trek or specialized because they ahve dared to be different and innovate despite their small size- they came up with BB30, and they've stuck to squeezing every bit of performance out of their strength, alumnium, while everyone is just making open mould CF bikes these days. I would love to see what cannondale does in the aero bike market, if they decide to throw in their hat. 

many companies make good bikes today- some more well marketed, some less. at the same price level, there is not much to choose between different bikes. there is a great deal of difference between a 1000 dollar bike and a 3000 dollar one, but not mcuh between a 3000 and a 6000 dollar one. just go out there and get a better engine!


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## Zachariah (Jan 29, 2009)

The former Cannondale was a great, innovative company that spared NO EXPENSE on developing their products. Unfortunately, it was this great customer value that also spelled the demise of the company. 

Today, CannonDorel only believes in ONE THING....target the rich, with crazy-expensive racing products. The cost of owning the bike that had a stellar reputation of exceeding value - suddenly went way up....


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## RussellS (Feb 1, 2010)

fabsroman said:


> Now, show me the people that have picked a Cannondale CAAD over a Colnago, and not because of price point but because of ride quality.


I expect there have been lots of people who did that. Colnago has/had an aluminum frame a few years ago. Might have had the carbon stays on it. Not sure. Maybe the Dream model? Not sure. A friend rides one. He seems to like it. Bright neon yellow paint job. But I think Colnago uses the heavy lumpy TIG welds on its aluminum frames. Not the smooth ground off welds like Cannondale. One looks good, one does not. As for paint jobs, some people don't want Colnago paint jobs. They want a nice black, white, red, blue paint job like Cannondale. And of course Colnago builds its bikes with super short top tubes so you need super long stems. Some of us do not subscribe to this dumb bike geometry. As for ride quality, I doubt there is any difference. Maybe different steering feel though. Fork rake, headtube angle, weight distribution will affect this.


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## nyvram (Apr 11, 2002)

i'll always have a soft-spot for cannondale. back in the 1980s when i was in college, i established my very first credit line by purchasing a $500 cannondale (which i paid off over 12 months lol) with suntour/shimano components and custom graphics. i remember the "high end" black lightning was like $700 (wow thats alotta money for a bike!) but it got me into road riding..i put a billion miles on that thing before it was stolen from me. :wah:

don't know much about them now..but i do remember the next year after i bought my bike, they teamed up to provide white bikes to the CREST pro bike team and i thought that was super cool.


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## davidalone (Nov 23, 2010)

I would beg to differ. comparing the latest models like the supersix evo to oher comparable models in its weight class (R5ca . anyone?) the evo defs offers value ( although HOW MUCH value is debatable.) other models like the CADD 9/10, while expensive for alu bikes, have offered great racing value in terms of performance and durability . even the six 105 model, whcih was a hit 2 years ago, offered exceptional value, offering a great frame and decent parts for your dollar. and thats for you americans. its less so for me in asia ! in fact I would go so far to say as the CAAD is where it's at for cannondale.

while I'll agree not all models ofered by cannondale are cheap or value for money ( slice ulimate?) , that can be said of every bike manufacturer. R and D is not cheap, and with cannondale I'm at least I know for sure that they are one of the few bike companies who are really doing their research ( evidence: BB30, lefty forks, supersix evo, new slice to be coming out in 2012)- can you say the same of any of the european brands? waht new things have the come up with in the industry lately? . they need to get the cash to finance that. and as long as they continue to push boundaries I will continue to support them.


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