# Zipp 303 or Edge 45?



## iridepinarello (Feb 22, 2009)

I am looking to get another set of wheels to ride and race on. I'm 180lbs and ride in Florida on flat to "florida hilly" areas.

I want to get a set of Carbon rims and have narrowed it down to the Zipp 303's or Edge 45's (of which I have 1 pair already, however it has a powertap hub in it and I don't want to race with that wheel).

Therefore, out of curiosity, which would you choose... the Zipp 303 or Edge 45's, and why? If you think there's something that makes more sense, please LMK. Thank you.


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## jrz1 (Mar 15, 2006)

I'm also seriously considering the Zipp 303 tubulars. I have been doing extensive research and from what I can see the Edge wheels are slightly lighter and stronger but probably slightly less Aero to the Zipps. Since you live in Florida and the majority of your riding is on flat to rolling hills I would think that aero would trump lighter weight in your case. Also you will find it difficult to be able to touch Edge 45's for under $2200 while brand new Zipp 303's while listing for around that, are often found new on ebay for $1700. I'd go Zipp 303's if I were you.


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

You and I weigh the same and, likely, ride in similar areas in FL, when it comes to "hills" its either around San Antonio or Clermont? I have a set 2007 Zipp 303 tubulars custom built for me by Ron Ruff that I bought just to race on. They have been great, but I haven't used them as much as I had hoped to do, less than 200 miles total. I'm considering selling those to fund part of the cost of a custom set of Edge 1.45 clinchers, just because I don't feel the need to save every last gram with the riding I do now. If you like the Edge you have, I'd go that route as most threads I see here give them a thumbs up over the Zipp 303.

If you decide on the Zipps, PM me, I'll be happy to send you some photos of the wheels I am selling if you would like to consider them.


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## jrz1 (Mar 15, 2006)

In regards to the Zipp 303 tubular, I strongly urge you to take a look at this independent review: http://testrider.com/fly.aspx?layout=player&video=113


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## Lil Dale (Feb 19, 2009)

Since you already have the front Edge why not get another rear 45 and save some $$s?


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

I think the aero difference is so small that it would be hard to measure even in state of the art wind tunnel. The difference in durability on the other hand...


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## jrz1 (Mar 15, 2006)

You kidding me? The latest version of the Zipp 303 was developed for and tested by the pros on the cobbles of the spring classics on the pro tour. NO failures. It doesn't get much tougher than that!


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## Unoveloce (Apr 13, 2005)

I'm a big fan of both sets, but since you already have a set of Edge rims, that's the way I'd go. It will make switching between wheels easier since the rims are the same width.


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## Ligero (Oct 21, 2005)

jrz1 said:


> You kidding me? The latest version of the Zipp 303 was developed for and tested by the pros on the cobbles of the spring classics on the pro tour. NO failures. It doesn't get much tougher than that!


Yet somehow in the real world the rims are still breaking You can't believe everything that is put out by the marketing department. Thor had a rim failure and they blamed it on him using a different tire then what they tested with. 

On another forum a employee of Zipp said that they had only had 10 broken rims from impacts so far that year. I found that kind of amazing because I had 8 broken ones currently in my garage hanging from the wall, six 303's, one 202 and one 404.


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## bwhite_4 (Aug 29, 2006)

Ligero said:


> Yet somehow in the real world the rims are still breaking You can't believe everything that is put out by the marketing department. Thor had a rim failure and they blamed it on him using a different tire then what they tested with.
> 
> On another forum a employee of Zipp said that they had only had 10 broken rims from impacts so far that year. I found that kind of amazing because I had 8 broken ones currently in my garage hanging from the wall, six 303's, one 202 and one 404.


Quoted for emphasis and the MF'in truth.


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## bwhite_4 (Aug 29, 2006)

What Lil Dale said makes the most sense. Get yourself a rear wheel with the hub of your choice (sans PT).

If the question is Edge vs. X Brand ... the answer is always Edge.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

bwhite_4 said:


> Quoted for emphasis and the MF'in truth.


+10000!!!!!


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## jrz1 (Mar 15, 2006)

Listen, I have no dog in this hunt, or wheel in this race, so to speak, since I don't own Edge or Zipps (I currently am riding on Neuvation carbon 50mm tubulars, and have owned American Classic 420's and Token T50 carbon tubulars). But I have been saving and researching extensively for some time in preparation for a purchase up from my Neuvation wheelset. What I am finding is that the Zipp 303 (in the late 2009 - 2010 edition) is a very appealing wheelset. Earlier in this post I attached testrider.com independent review of the 303's. A pretty impressive report. Have you guys even looked at it? Competitive Cyclist, which last I checked is pretty reputable, also had great things to say about it. 

Ligero, what year 303's are those that are cracked? Major, and I mean major changes to the 303 were made in their current edition. Most of the changes were to enhance durability. And since when isn't the pro tour the "real world". Its about as real as it gets. I don't intend or want to sound like an ad for Zipp but again the Paris-Roubaix and other spring classics on the cobbles is a pretty tough test for wheels and Zipp 303's were on the Cervelo and Garmin teams.

I too in my research read about many rim failures with Zipp. Most of them are in older models. I think they have made some changes to rectify those problems. Again, I simply say that the Zipps are more aero, very close in weight, and can be bought new on ebay for $400 to $500 less than the Edge.


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## Ray_from_SA (Jun 15, 2005)

I don't have Zipp wheels and have no reason to defend them, but IIRC Zipp has significantly changed the profile of the 303 in the past year to address the issues being seen in the field.

I don't know of a wheel manufacturer out there that can say they've not had a bad design reach the markey, be it Mavic, Zipp or any other. Every thread like this will have just as many for as against regardless of the manufacturers under debate for that same reason.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

jrz1 said:


> very close in weight


Not really...???


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## jrz1 (Mar 15, 2006)

According to Edge's website their 45 mm tubular rim comes in two versions the 1.45 or 2.45 version and according to which hub you build it out with the total weight of their wheelsets vary from a lightest build of 1105 g. all the way up to 1245 g. The 2010 Zipp 303 tubular wheelset weighs 1171 g. or right in the middle of those Edge sets. Oh, and by the way, Edge charges from $2,400 for their heavier build all the way up to $2,900 for their lightest build. Right now on Ebay there are several new 2010 Zipp 303 sets going for $1,700.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

You cannot really compare one product's retail cost to another's on the bay.
Additionally you are comparing the weight of two sets of wheels with extremely different hubs. The 303s use Zipp's own hub which while they are not a bad they do not hold a candle to 240s. Even though they are a bit lighter than DTs they will not build nearly as stiff or as durable.

The 303 rim is claimed at 344 grams while Edge's 45 is 300 grams. The retail cost of 303s is 2285.00$ and the 45 with 240s is 2400.00$. 

Also the weights you claimed for the Edge and Zipp build were a 303 in an 18/24 spoke count while the 45s are in a 20/24.

Zipp makes good wheels, but Edge makes better ones.


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## jrz1 (Mar 15, 2006)

As I said in an earlier post, I am in the market for a ~ 45 mm carbon tubular rim. And obviously the Zipp 303 is one I am considering but the Edge intrigues me also. I tried on the Edge website to find out the width of their 1.45 rim but could not find it. Zen or Ligero (or anyone else for that matter), could you tell me what the width of that rim is and what width tire works best with it?


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

The wider is better idea for rims is a new one and its application seems a bit fishy to me... There is no real data that proves it is more aero, or stronger. The only reason that I would consider it would be for riding wide tires but you can do that on any rim no problem.

Back to the question though. You can run whatever width of tire you like on either rim. The 303 may be better for large tires (I am thinking about cross) especially at low PSI. Cross aside I do not think that there is going to be any real functional difference between the width of the 2 rims.


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## 72guy (Nov 18, 2009)

jrz1 said:


> Oh, and by the way, Edge charges from $2,400 for their heavier build all the way up to $2,900 for their lightest build. Right now on Ebay there are several new 2010 Zipp 303 sets going for $1,700.


My LBS will sell the 303s or the 404s for $1450. I want the EDGE wheelset. But for $1000+ more than the ZIPP???:idea:


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## bwhite_4 (Aug 29, 2006)

jrz1 said:


> Listen, I have no dog in this hunt, or wheel in this race, so to speak, since I don't own Edge or Zipps (I currently am riding on Neuvation carbon 50mm tubulars, and have owned American Classic 420's and Token T50 carbon tubulars). But I have been saving and researching extensively for some time in preparation for a purchase up from my Neuvation wheelset. What I am finding is that the Zipp 303 (in the late 2009 - 2010 edition) is a very appealing wheelset. Earlier in this post I attached testrider.com independent review of the 303's. A pretty impressive report. Have you guys even looked at it? Competitive Cyclist, which last I checked is pretty reputable, also had great things to say about it.
> 
> Ligero, what year 303's are those that are cracked? Major, and I mean major changes to the 303 were made in their current edition. Most of the changes were to enhance durability. And since when isn't the pro tour the "real world". Its about as real as it gets. I don't intend or want to sound like an ad for Zipp but again the Paris-Roubaix and other spring classics on the cobbles is a pretty tough test for wheels and Zipp 303's were on the Cervelo and Garmin teams.
> 
> I too in my research read about many rim failures with Zipp. Most of them are in older models. I think they have made some changes to rectify those problems. Again, I simply say that the Zipps are more aero, very close in weight, and can be bought new on ebay for $400 to $500 less than the Edge.



Most PT teams ride what they are paid to ride. Cycling websites (TestRider.com) rarely give negative reviews and an online bike shop such as Competitive Cyclist wants to sell wheels. They are going to give them as glowing review as they can. I'm sure they say they are the best wheel for Pave. They'll also say the same about a 32h box section rim such as their Ambrosio/Record wheelset. The point is ... they want to move products.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

bwhite_4 said:


> Most PT teams ride what they are paid to ride. Cycling websites (TestRider.com) rarely give negative reviews and an online bike shop such as Competitive Cyclist wants to sell wheels. They are going to give them as glowing review as they can. I'm sure they say they are the best wheel for Pave. They'll also say the same about a 32h box section rim such as their Ambrosio/Record wheelset. The point is ... they want to move products.


I absolutely agree. Teams choose their sponsors by who gives them the most money so if Zipp offers 3-4 times what Edge or Reynolds does then they are going to ride them and they have to say good things about them. I believe that there was a womens pro team in the late 90s that got stuck on Softrides.


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## gibbons (Nov 9, 2002)

My Edge 45 tubsters with 190 hubs weight 1098.


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## ssauter (Aug 1, 2007)

Zen Cyclery said:


> You cannot really compare one product's retail cost to another's on the bay.
> Additionally you are comparing the weight of two sets of wheels with extremely different hubs. The 303s use Zipp's own hub which while they are not a bad they do not hold a candle to 240s. Even though they are a bit lighter than DTs they will not build nearly as stiff or as durable.
> 
> The 303 rim is claimed at 344 grams while Edge's 45 is 300 grams. The retail cost of 303s is 2285.00$ and the 45 with 240s is 2400.00$.
> ...


Actually, if you are comparing lateral stiffness, the new 2010 303 will be significantly stiffer than a edge 45 built on dt 240 hubs. In fact the 2010 303 is one of the stiffest carbon wheels that I have tested for the weight. The flange spacing on Zipp's new hubs have some of the best center to right flange spacing of any road hub.
I wouldn't rule out the 2010 303 rim but the Edge has been out a lot longer with proven durability.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

If O.P. is planning to race on this next wheelset, why not extra-deep *68* mm deep wheels to get a little more aero advantage?


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

tom_h said:


> If O.P. is planning to race on this next wheelset, why not extra-deep *68* mm deep wheels to get a little more aero advantage?


Good idea! There is your answer!


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## Mdeth1313 (Nov 1, 2001)

i recently purchased a set of edge 1.45's built up w/ extalite hubs and cx-ray spokes that came in at 970g. 

everytime I thought about zipps I just kept seeing a reply of some guy going into a corner and having his wheel fold. If youre buying them from ebay, how do you know what youre getting? you can also bet zipp won't warranty an ebay purchase. 

but- you dont need to justify your purchase to anyone but yourself! get what you think is the best for you.


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## jrz1 (Mar 15, 2006)

*303 width caution*

Well today I just found out that I have to rule out the Zipp 303 from my consideration. The rim is too wide for my bike. While reading on Competitive Cyclist's website about the new version (2010) 303's they mentioned that because of the width of the rim it does not fit on some bikes. Too tight between the chainstays near the junction with the bottom bracket. They recommended at least 33.5 mm clearance in that area. I went out and measured my 2008 Guru Crono frame and I have only 32 mm clearance at its slimmest point. So, unfortunately, no Zipp 303's!! Now Zen and Ligero, I am in the market for an alternative and the leading candidate is EDGE. I am considering a 1.45 front and a 1.65 rear with DT240 hubs and cxray spokes in tubular of course. What would I be looking at weight wise with a set-up like that?


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## gitoutdaway (Nov 28, 2007)

*my 2 cents*

FWW, I too am in the marklet for a new set of wheels and was initially very interested in the 2010 Zipp 303s, I think they look sexy as hell and I believed the initial reports/press/pr about the redesign, beefier rims etc.

I discussed it w mechanics at a very upscale Manhhattan NY shop that sees only and all the best gear, they dont sell anything., just custom fits and builds to order, they can get whatever the clents desire. The mechs seemes excited about the Zipps too, I was deciding between these and maybe a pair of Edges w Alchemy hubs, they also liked these alot.

One month later, mech informed me theyd already seen 2 sets of Zipps BREAK, 2 sets within a month or so if the wheels intro! Thats not good, too bad because I REALLY did like them.


So far I have not purchased anything yet, but will most likely go for the edge/alchemy combo, I do love the look of the Zipps but unfortunately I dont have much confidence.

Although I will vouch for Zipp customer service and warranty, so far I ve had great experience with them, no hassle, but I 'd rather not have equipment failures than good customer service experiences any day.

Anybody on this forum actually own and ride a pair yet??

tx


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## jrz1 (Mar 15, 2006)

This is sooo frustrating. What is Zipp's problem? How can they race the 303's on the cobbles with no problems (I actually saw an interview with Phil Grooman or whatever his name is from Cervelo talking about their teams great experience with the new 303 - and no, it wasn't an interview with a Zipp rep. or on Zipp's sight) and yet it sounds like there is a problem with them being fragile. Almost sounds like the wheels supplied to the pros are different than the ones being sold to the general public!! It wouldn't matter to me except that, like you, I find these wheels very appealing in ways no other wheel around can match (dimples and toridal shape so more aero than any other wheel at 45 mm, wider tire bed than any other wheel, etc). Arghhh.....


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## gitoutdaway (Nov 28, 2007)

yes it is frustrating, all I can conclude is that thr pros don t have to worry much because they can have expensive equipment swapped, repaired and replaced with little effort and no expense, the rest of us , well, our calculations have to be different and far more conservative given the outrageousness of paying +200 for bicycle wheels!

I think its possible pros break things more often than we know, and they certainl;y have brand new stuff every season so the wheels, frames etc only have to last a few grueling months at most, ours need to last years at least!~ A reliable wheel for a pro means lasting a whole race, a reliable wheel for a civilian means lasting a whole lot longer...

they can ride fragile equipment far more carelesly than we can, and youre right, maybe the builders do "special" stuff behind the scenes, although i sort of doubt thatt.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

jrz1 said:


> Almost sounds like the wheels supplied to the pros are different than the ones being sold to the general public!!


I bet thats the case...
Also if a Garmin guy breaks a rim they will just swap it out and no one will say anything.
Zipp is the king of marketing!


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## neuroslug (Nov 21, 2002)

*zipp != durable.*

Every year, Zipp says their products are more impact-resistant than the last.

In two years, I have destroyed 3 2008 404 clinchers, 2 2010 808 tubulars, and a 2010 Super9 disc. Ridiculous. Zipp wheels ride VERY WELL, there's no doubt about that, but know that you'll probably end up breaking them.


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## gitoutdaway (Nov 28, 2007)

No offense, but...

If you broke so many zipp wheels why would you keep buying the same thing over and over again? Thats over 5 sets of wheels, why wouldn't you switch brands? And what are you doing to break so many hweels? I have never heard of anyone breaking so many, maybe its your riding style not the rims.

Either you exaggerate or this is bs, or you are crazy!


:mad2:


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

On a tangent, I'm sort of excited aout the new for 2011 FFWD F6R-240s. Super hubs, interesting rim profile, and the possibility to deselect red.

















I already own a set of climber's F_2_R-240s, but haven't had them out in the real world yet. 
I have not heard very many bad things about FFWD, but I noticed that Quick Step did nor use any for the cobbled classics, there were what looked like the typical relabeled Ambrosio 32h aluminium tubular rims employed:


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## neuroslug (Nov 21, 2002)

Not B.S. Maybe I'm slightly crazy, but read on:

Zipp offers replacement wheels at lower than cost, so it's ~$300 for a new wheel. Like I said, they perform very well (better than other high-end wheels I've tried) but I reached my breaking point (no pun intended) and will be selling the replacements soon.

I'm riding and racing on them.

#1 dented on a pothole coming downhill (404 clincher rear)
#2 dented on a rock in the road (404 clincher front)
#3 and #4 (808 front and disc) dented on a concrete lip in the road (sort of like the ones that occur near bridges that aren't level with the asphalt)
#5 (808 rear tubular) cracked on a really nasty pothole. This pothole also cracked my friend's (a junior racer at 110lbs.) 404 tubulars.

I weigh 160.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I broke a Mavic CCU once. They replaced it under the warranty, but that doesn't mean I'll be using them when that warranty runs out. Just sayin'.


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