# Does Giant Manufacture Cervelo Frames?



## fab4 (Jan 8, 2003)

A friend of mine just bought a 2009 Giant TCR Advanced 3. Looking at the frame the TCR has almost the same squarish down tube as the Cervelo R3/RS (squoval) frames. Makes me wonder if Giant manufactures Cervelo frames in the far east. Anybody know?


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## rydog9991 (Jul 15, 2008)

Giant makes many of other brands frames, but I'm pretty sure they don't make Cervelo.


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

Cervelo is made by PMG I believe.


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## John Kuhl (Jul 20, 2007)

I'm pretty sure Cervelo was using the square (squoval) down
tube years before Giant did. If anything Giant is using Cervelos
idea.

Best, John


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## emoney (May 9, 2009)

I wouldn't be surprised by it. From what I understand, a large of bike frames are made by Giant, according to my LBS who is a Raleigh/Fuji/Redline dealer.


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## Rubber Lizard (May 10, 2007)

Nope.
Though Giant's parent company, not Giant bicycles itself produces frames for dozens of other companies. There is a very important distinction between the Giant that markets Giant branded bikes, and the Giant that makes brand Z's bikes. 
BTW 95% of carbon bikes come out of the same 6 factories.Three are located in Taiwan, Three in mainland China. For better or for worse, that's the way things are.


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## Rubber Lizard (May 10, 2007)

fab4 said:


> Makes me wonder if Giant manufactures Cervelo frames in the far east. Anybody know?


Giant has always made frames in Taiwan, and now has several facilities on the mainland. It has always been a Taiwanese brand with no production in the USA or Europe, ever. 
Your Cervelo was made in facility outside of Guangzhou China. If it's a monocoque carbon as most frames are these days, it is produced in the far east. 

As for the similar shape of the bikes, call it convergent evolution. When you are after the same properties in anything, your designs often end up very similar.


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

so, how do you tell if your bike was made by giant? i've heard actually a few different methods; the main one being a long, oval-shaped clear sticker on the chainstay...but i've also been told that is absolutely wrong, and the shop that told me that was just trying to get my money.


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

You can't tell.
Also, Giant may have made the frame/fork but they may not have been contracted to paint it. It is somewhat common for a company to get their frames made overseas, and paint the frames themselves. In the EU a company is allowed to say that something is made in, say Italy, when it was made in China. as long as whatever processes take place in Italy add 60% of the value to the product. One could argue that painting and adding a "Bianchi" logo onto a $200 frame can increase the value by much more than 60%.
Long story short, the clear sticker on the stay means nothing.


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## Le Wrench (May 12, 2009)

mtbbmet said:


> You can't tell.
> In the EU a company is allowed to say that something is made in, say Italy, when it was made in China. as long as whatever processes take place in Italy add 60% of the value to the product. One could argue that painting and adding a "Bianchi" logo onto a $200 frame can increase the value by much more than 60%.
> Long story short, the clear sticker on the stay means nothing.


Fascinating point, an eye opener about today's global production model.


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

Here's the big ...er... Giant factory where they produce all those frames for both Giant and everyone else.


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## vmajor (Mar 16, 2008)

Cervelo is made by Tentec in China.

Also there are more than 6 large CF factories, and even more alloy factories. Interestingly, a lot of these factories, especially in the alloy side of things, sub-contract to one another to manage occasionally higher than usual demand.

V.


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

Funny... I met a gut from PMG who says they're doing Cervelo.


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## vmajor (Mar 16, 2008)

That is very new then. I'll check with them  PMG does several other brands, but components only. They never mentioned making frames.

V.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

I think it's Tentec t too. I do know Cervelo and SCOTT are made by the same parent company in the same factory on Mainland China. If I also recall, those are the only two bike made in that factory.


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## StillKeen (Oct 4, 2005)

Rubber Lizard said:


> ...Your Cervelo was made in facility outside of Guangzhou China..


Where near Guangzhou are they made? Dong Guan?
Thanks,
-Chris
PS I was based at two factories in the area for 12 months, although nothing to do with bicycles ... electronics and cufflinks ...


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## jcjordan (May 12, 2008)

Taiwan has been the leading developer for Carbon Fiber for the last 10 or so years so its not unexpected that so much comes from there.


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## vmajor (Mar 16, 2008)

jcjordan said:


> Taiwan has been the leading developer for Carbon Fiber for the last 10 or so years so its not unexpected that so much comes from there.


Actually, for a lot longer than that.

Before the carbon fiber composite bike frames became commonplace, the largest of the current bike component manufacturers were already making carbon fiber fishing rods, golf club shafts, and "graphite" tennis and squash rackets.

In fact, carbon fiber composites are just one type of a composite material that these factories had mastered over the preceding 30 years or so.

However, there are some newcomers as well, particularly in China where several CF factories began operating just 4-6 yeas ago, some as a result of splintered ventures where both parties ended up setting up separate factories, sometimes right next to one another.

V.


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

Yes! The Taiwanese bike industry actually shares a common lineage with the footwear industry in that they both can be traced back to the Japanese hat making industry, which was centered around Taichung, near the town of Ching Shui. The Japanese trained locals to sew and manufacture those straw hats... the kind often depicted in those racist Japanese cartoons of the 1940's... the voter hat. They eventually branched off into tennis racquets, shoes and other sporting equipment. I actually interviewed a man who was trained to sew tennis racquets in the 1930's. Later when the Chinese arrived after WWII, his teacher organized his sewing group to take up weapons and fight the Chinese in the streets. When WWII ended, the Japanese infrastructure was left largely intact and many of the factories converted to manufacturing other equipment. Many of the Japanese-trained craftspeople also moved into the machine tool and metal fabrication industries in the 1950's to support the American airbase in Taichung. 
Taiwanese have been at it for a long time .


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

Someone told me Colnago (SLX and SX-1s) are made by the Giant factory.


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

I wouldn't be surprised. Merida also makes a bunch. Anyone know who is branding Trigon and Token bikes?


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## vmajor (Mar 16, 2008)

Wow...I thought you were being sarcastic when I read the first two sentences, but it all makes sense.

Awesome story!

V.


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## vmajor (Mar 16, 2008)

Trigon (Great Go) is a manufacturer, Token is not.

Trigon makes frames for some of the most expensive brands - actually the most expensive brand.

V.


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## john11f (Mar 19, 2009)

what is the most expensive brand, if i may ask? sorry for my ignorance....


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## vmajor (Mar 16, 2008)

john11f said:


> what is the most expensive brand, if i may ask? sorry for my ignorance....


Sorry, I cannot say. I am OK with "confirm or deny" types of situation where I do not volunteer the information, but given that this brand and Trigon do not have a relationship that they openly announce to the world, I will choose to respect their decision.

V.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Dajianshan said:


> I wouldn't be surprised. Merida also makes a bunch. Anyone know who is branding Trigon and Token bikes?


Trigon is a a manufacture. TKOEN brands parts from them.

By Blue Competition Cycles RC6 is from Trigon.


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## kyler2001 (Sep 8, 2005)

vmajor said:


> Sorry, I cannot say. I am OK with "confirm or deny" types of situation where I do not volunteer the information, but given that this brand and Trigon do not have a relationship that they openly announce to the world, I will choose to respect their decision.
> 
> V.


WOW! and just think, if you spilt the beans, you might have caused WWIII or something. Awesome composure. Take that information to the grave... 

Anyway, like Lance said "It's not about the sweat shop." Oh wait, I got that messed up with something else...never mind.:blush2:


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## vmajor (Mar 16, 2008)

kyler2001 said:


> WOW! and just think, if you spilt the beans, you might have caused WWIII or something. Awesome composure. Take that information to the grave...
> 
> Anyway, like Lance said "It's not about the sweat shop." Oh wait, I got that messed up with something else...never mind.:blush2:


Lol no. But we are their customers too...

V.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

vmajor said:


> Trigon (Great Go) is a manufacturer, Token is not.
> 
> Trigon makes frames for some of the most expensive brands - actually the most expensive brand.
> 
> V.


Well, the most expensive bikes I can think of at the moment, not including the Colnago Ferrari-made bikes or other hand-made carbon bikes, are Pinarello and Scott (Addict).


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

PlatyPius said:


> Well, the most expensive bikes I can think of at the moment, not including the Colnago Ferrari-made bikes or other hand-made carbon bikes, are Pinarello and Scott (Addict).


Scott is China, same factory as Cervelo. Pinarello frames are made in Taiwan and finished/painted in Italy.

I think MOST buyers know this now about Pina.


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

Giant sells Scott out of their retail stores in Taiwan, along with its other brands, like Topeak.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Dajianshan said:


> Giant sells Scott out of their retail stores in Taiwan, along with its other brands, like Topeak.


Ok...?

Maybe they have an agreement for sales of SCOTT as they might not have dealers there? The source was VERY reliable on what I posted.


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

Giant may have a subsidiary in China making Scott. Giant has a few companies in China doing work on CF frames. I talked to some folks from Giant who conformed they are involved with Scott.


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## Le Wrench (May 12, 2009)

kyler2001 said:


> Anyway, like Lance said "It's not about the sweat shop." Oh wait, I got that messed up with something else...never mind.:blush2:


Too funny. This is the quote of the day.


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## mark4501 (Jul 27, 2007)

DIRT BOY said:


> Pinarello frames are made in Taiwan and finished/painted in Italy.
> 
> I think MOST buyers know this now about Pina.


Dirt Boy.....nice pun...assume it was intentional but if not, I appreciated it anyway as a Pinarello owner. I've got seveal "MOST" brand components on my bike.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

mark4501 said:


> Dirt Boy.....nice pun...assume it was intentional but if not, I appreciated it anyway as a Pinarello owner. I've got several "MOST" brand components on my bike.


Funny! I did not realize that!


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