# Ride report le champion ti inferno with SRAM red



## [email protected] (Feb 21, 2007)

Let me start by saying this is my third bd bike. Curse them and their good deals!

My bike came in on Wednesday and I finally got it dialed in so I could further tune it to my liking on the road. I have two rides in now and in neither case was I in fresh condition because my wife and I did a hilly 65 on the tandem Saturday. 

Starting out I headed down our street Sunday for whatever I felt up to riding. I hit the 3.3 mile point at 21.2 mph withou crossing 165 beats per minute so I'm thinkin this might be a good ride since the last time I got there that fast I was crossing into 175 territory and was fresh. The bike just squirts forward with every pedal stroke. Any sort of kick at the pedals results in an increase in speed. 

The bike handles quickly. The front end feels a bit on the loose side, but I think that's just because it's a fast handling machine and I lack coordination. I remember my ksyriums being a bit sensitive in a crosswind, but didn't feel it either today or yesterday despite what feels like fast handling. 

I hit the base of bandy canyon road with a monster headwind on a 15% peak grade. Standing the bike jumps forward as well. I had throttled back a bit since this was supposed to be a recovery ride. Standing, it feels as if there is no weight on the front of the bike. It's strangely airy, but maybe that's because I had ridden that semi of a tandem the day before. I was scoffing at the 28 tooth cog on the rear thinking I would need to swap out the wimpy cog, but I certainly enjoyed spinning up bandy. 

After cresting it's basically flat to descend highland valley road. This climb I believe was HC in the tour of ca when they came to San Diego. It has a nasty corner near the top and the bike went well through that, so I let it rip on the rest of the descent. It handled as well as any other bike I've ridden down that descent over the last 28 years. 

Then flat to lake hodges I went. Big winds, and I can tell I'm gassed from the day before. I try to chase a rider that passes me but I've got nothing and this is supposed to be a recovery ride. I get to the lake shelled and spin it home up another climb of about 1 mile. I keep getting a shock about how well this thing seems to climb. Bump the cadence and you are moving faster. 

It was a great ride. I got home and told my wife I was spent after my 30 mile test ride and she immediately knew. "you went too hard didn't you?". She knows me too well. 

I've been riding 25mm tires so the 23s had me a little worried about ride harshness, but it was fine. I think the ti did something there. I'd describe the ride as having good road feel as I like to feel the road, but somewhat muted. 

Today I did a little spin for an hour and found it enjoyable.

I bought this after I couldn't get a ti bike at any stores I visited in San Diego. I couldn't see the difference between a bd bike I couldn't test ride and one from a local store I couldn't ride. I repair and adjust my own bikes and have since I was 14. 
The only thing I didn't like was was the front fork seemed wider than usual at the hub. I'm used to about a one to two mm gap at the hub, and this seemed closer to 5mm. Seems sloppy to me. I could care less about welds so don't ask me. I bought a 53 and I normally ride a 54. My previous favorite frame is aluminum with carbon stays. I'm 5'10" and about 200#.

The price and componetry levels are unbeatable and top notch components make for a nice ride no matter what they are attached to and bd makes it possible for you to own component levels you couldn't get from any other company at the price. 

Previous bikes in the last 5 years
Fuji roubaix rc alum with carbon stays
Mongoose bosberg full carbon
Iron horse. Alum with carbon stays
Specialized alum
Bacchetta ti recumbent
Bacchetta alum recumbent
Rans crank forward
Catrike trike
Cannondale tandem
Raleigh tandem


I'll post an update here after 6 months or so


----------



## mopartodd (Dec 1, 2010)

OMG!!! You didn't deal with the LBS? Shame on you!!! Don't you know how horrible BD's reputation is and their business model is even worse.

The previous comments are sarcasm for those of you who may not be picking it up. lol

You guys make me wish I had gotten the Ti bike rather than the carbon...Maybe next year I'll pick up a frame. Glad you like the bike though and thanks for the review.


----------



## robc in wi (Sep 8, 2011)

Thanks for the write up, I wish more people would take the time. Much better than the write ups in the review section. I'm very interested in a Moto Ti bike although the Sram Red is out of my price range. I'm torn between a full on carbon bike or trying Ti, I'm interested in what frame is a better climber and your write up points to Ti. I also like the longevity/durability of Ti. I do wish that the Force and Rival Moto Ti came with better wheelsets, but I guess that I can always upgrade.


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 21, 2007)

I would have purchased ultra except for the aksium wheels. I'll do a write up on the cross bike I bought with those wheels. I wouldn't wish them on an enemy.


----------



## PhotoJoe (Mar 8, 2011)

The Ultegra bike is $1999. The Rival bike is $1599. Take the Rival (I know I'm assuming you would be happy with SRAM), then sell your wheels and buy new wheels.....same price as the Ultegra bike, but better end result (in the wheel department)!


----------



## robc in wi (Sep 8, 2011)

That's exactly what I was thinking. I also poked around the net and read the reviews of the Rival groupo and all said it was the best in comparison w/Shimano and Campy's similar products. Hope that the Ti Heat is still available next year when I have the cash.:thumbsup:


----------



## marcalans (Aug 13, 2011)

I agree. The Rival with better wheels will produce a better bike than the full Ultegra, but you'll need to selll the Aksiums to break even because the difference of $400 will not buy you that great a wheelset. I've been testing the Rival a lot lately and find the group to be at least as good, if not better than Ultegra and lighter. The fact that you can pull the shift levers toward you to minimize reach and not have to worry about accidentally breaking while shifting or shifting while breaking are added advantages of Rival. I wonder why no one mentions the Le Champion Fire Ti -- full Force groupo with Ksyrium Equipe wheelset.


----------



## marcalans (Aug 13, 2011)

*Loose front end?*



[email protected] said:


> The bike handles quickly. The front end feels a bit on the loose side


Chadne, can you explain what you mean by a _loose front end_. I've read some reports by others that the steering can be a little twitchy and the bike a little squirrely. Is this what you mean? Have you tried riding with no hands to see if the bike will steer straight on its own? Does it feel solid and stable while descending fast? The wheelbase seems a little shorter than what one usually sees for a typical relaxed geometry. Also, concern over the quality of the fork was expressed in one of the magazine reviews.


----------



## robc in wi (Sep 8, 2011)

marcalans said:


> I agree. The Rival with better wheels will produce a better bike than the full Ultegra, but you'll need to selll the Aksiums to break even because the difference of $400 will not buy you that great a wheelset. I've been testing the Rival a lot lately and find the group to be at least as good, if not better than Ultegra and lighter. The fact that you can pull the shift levers toward you to minimize reach and not have to worry about accidentally breaking while shifting or shifting while breaking are added advantages of Rival. I wonder why no one mentions the Le Champion Fire Ti -- full Force groupo with Ksyrium Equipe wheelset.


I respectfully beg to differ, $400 will certainly buy you a nice set of wheels. Several handbuilt wheelsets at bicyclewheelwarehouse.com 1500 grams or lighter for under $400 with the 11's at $329 (currently all with free shipping).


----------



## marcalans (Aug 13, 2011)

Robc, thanks for making me aware of bicyclewheelwarehouse.com. I had mainstream brands in mind. The prices and weights for their house brand are very reasonable, but do you know if their wheels are actually any good, especially in terms of durability? I'm not familiar with them.


----------



## robc in wi (Sep 8, 2011)

marcalans said:


> Robc, thanks for making me aware of bicyclewheelwarehouse.com. I had mainstream brands in mind. The prices and weights for their house brand are very reasonable, but do you know if their wheels are actually any good, especially in terms of durability? I'm not familiar with them.


They are very popular at mtbr.com (sister site to this site) and have a very solid reputation. If you do a search here on the wheels sub forum there is plenty to read about their wheels.


----------



## B05 (Jul 31, 2011)

robc in wi said:


> I respectfully beg to differ, $400 will certainly buy you a nice set of wheels. Several handbuilt wheelsets at bicyclewheelwarehouse.com 1500 grams or lighter for under $400 with the 11's at $329 (currently all with free shipping).


I finally found a "comparable" wheelset to the Soul 3.0s

1500 @ $329 w/ free shipping. assuming it's an excellent wheelset then I'm sold. I just wished they did colored spokes. hmm...decisions decisions.

I'm also considering the Rival equipped Le Champion @ 1600 for next year. I'm already riding an AL Moto right now.


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 21, 2007)

marcalans said:


> Chadne, can you explain what you mean by a _loose front end_. I've read some reports by others that the steering can be a little twitchy and the bike a little squirrely. Is this what you mean? Have you tried riding with no hands to see if the bike will steer straight on its own? Does it feel solid and stable while descending fast? The wheelbase seems a little shorter than what one usually sees for a typical relaxed geometry. Also, concern over the quality of the fork was expressed in one of the magazine reviews.


I lack the coordination to ride without hands on any of the 5 bikes I own and in general lack the guts to try. Though in high school we used to no hands race up 8% grades. I describe how it felt going downhill in my write-up. I find the handling fast but I can still ride for miles on the white line. By light I mean it's airy as in no weight and seems to move easily.


----------



## Mike Overly (Sep 28, 2005)

marcalans said:


> I agree. The Rival with better wheels will produce a better bike than the full Ultegra, but you'll need to selll the Aksiums to break even because the difference of $400 will not buy you that great a wheelset. I've been testing the Rival a lot lately and find the group to be at least as good, if not better than Ultegra and lighter. The fact that you can pull the shift levers toward you to minimize reach and not have to worry about accidentally breaking while shifting or shifting while breaking are added advantages of Rival. I wonder why no one mentions the Le Champion Fire Ti -- full Force groupo with Ksyrium Equipe wheelset.


Fire is the perfect spec, IMO, but Force is an identical deal for someone who wants to spend 500 less and suffer the 1.5# penalty between the group & wheels. Gaudy red MOTO decals would have to come off the Fire it were me.

Re, the Blackset wheels, I have two sets of Race 10s that have proven tough & true over the past year. They are significantly heavier than advertised (My sets are 1540/1550 bare, no skewers).

(Nice write-up, chadneATcox.net)


----------



## lardo (Aug 16, 2011)

The GP Inferno looks really nice and I'm really considering buying one later one. 

However, if you look at the pic below, is that welding in the green circle?

It looks a bit rough. Or is it just a bad angle? 

I hope some owners can chime in. I might just stick with my Ti bike. 

Thanks.

EDIT: It might be a bad angle (new pic uploaded).


----------



## linded (Aug 12, 2011)

All the lugwork on mine is very clean, including the seat lug. The lugs are nicely designed. Note on your pictures the relief hole on the seat lug which reduces the chance of splitting the lug while tightening the seatpost clamp. Also, note the spooning on the lower back of the lug which is a stress reducer on the seat tube. I suspect the picture on the red frame is a photo artefact.

BTW, these lugged steel frames are silver soldered by hand, not truly welded. This allows the use of lower tempuratures, thereby minimizing any weakening of the metals used. Hope this helps.


----------



## lardo (Aug 16, 2011)

thanks for the info. I think I found the 2012 models. I'll make a new thread once I surpass/spam this silly 5 post minimum rule to make new threads.


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 21, 2007)

Well, as an update, I'll let you know more about what I think about this bike.

The wheels were really creaky. I had this problem with some Ksyrium ES's so I took and added a small amount of tension to each spoke. Creaky noise gone. It was particularly bad while standing.

At this time I've ridden the bike on several 60+ mile rides, short harder rides, and lots of stuff in between. I got in a total across all bikes about 5000 miles this year. This is a very nice bike. Everything works well.

If I cram the bike on the trainer, the bottom bracket looks to move less side to side than my aluminum commuter, but the bike it tons more comfortable on the road. Both bikes have carbon forks, so it has to be either the geometry, or the titanium. The aluminum bike is a cross bike with a longer wheelbase, so I can only attribute it to the titanium. It's just comfortable to be on. The bike is lively. On one particularly demanding uphill I lifted the front wheel off the ground. That's what I mean when I say the front end is light. It also handles quickly. I've not found it twitchy or scary on any descents. I was worried about flats or wear with the included tires planning on replacing them with my stock fortezza's if there was a problem, but I've not had any more flats than I would have had with the fortezza's, so I won't replace them until they wear out. 

I really can't find anything bad to say about the bike.

Chad


----------



## MattintheCrown (Jul 6, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Well, as an update, I'll let you know more about what I think about this bike.
> 
> The wheels were really creaky. I had this problem with some Ksyrium ES's so I took and added a small amount of tension to each spoke. Creaky noise gone. It was particularly bad while standing.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the report. I'm planning on going with the Fire, so it's good to hear that you're still enjoying it after riding it for a while. Sounds like I'll be happy with the bike.


----------



## SolitaryRider (Oct 20, 2011)

.....after reading threads like this, I'm tempted to upgrade from my $300 Mercier....even though as a noob, I know it wouldn't make a dime's worth of difference to my riding! 

Nice bike, Chad! I could see myself getting the rival version....


----------



## biorchang (Jan 31, 2012)

Thanks for write up. Looking very hard at a Ti vs. CF.


----------



## Summit123 (Jul 29, 2011)

*Le Champion rear triangle design*

I read about this in another post and then confirmed it myself by checking out the pics on BD's website. There is a lack of the cross member right behind the bottom bracket bolstering the chainstay tubes on the left and right sides. The Motobecane mountain frames all have this, as well as all the other titanium frames out there(Lynskey, Habanero, etc). It seems like this cross member would provide additional rigidity to the frame, especially when sprinting out of the saddle. The geometry of the Le Champion has the rear wheel right up to the BB so maybe it was just a lack of room to weld this support piece. Actual owners have not reported flex in the rear triangle, but then I dont think I have come across any side by side test rides of a Le Champion and another frame with this commonly-found cross member. 

Having a lack of this cross member would theoretically place additional stress on the welds of the chainstays to the BB. Any thoughts about this out there?


----------



## ramkitty (Apr 4, 2012)

I am thinking of picking this model up this month.. or the full ultegra


----------

