# Aftermarket Brake Calipers



## wgeorge111 (Nov 27, 2010)

I am interested in some after maket brake calipers. Looking at Ciamillo(Zero Gravity), TRP, FSA, Mavic. I wanted to know what are some recommedations of makes and models that would be a good choice for an upgrade. I currently have 2004 Dura Ace calipers and I am looking for something lighter with more stoping power.
Thank you


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

Opinion - all the current brakes are more than powerful to lock your wheels up. Buy better brake pads.


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## johng723 (Aug 3, 2010)

I've also been looking into aftermarket brakes, specifically Ciamillo. I was told while doing some research that one of the guys at my LBS has had problems with having to constantly re-adjust the brakes. My LBS told me that they'd be more than happy to order and put them on for me, but in their honest opinion, the Red brakes (I was going all Red), or Force for that matter was a better, more reliable choice.


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## PSC (Mar 10, 2004)

Agree. Brake pads are more important than the brake type as far as brake performance goes. All brakes now aday are pretty good.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

7800 calipers were ranked the best ever. 7900 can apply slightly more max stopping power, but 7800 was slightly less, but much better modulation.
Both are much better than anything else on the market.

If you are trying to save 30 grams, by switching to so-so braking, then you must have some sort of mental problem.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> 7800 calipers were ranked the best ever. 7900 can apply slightly more max stopping power, but 7800 was slightly less, but much better modulation.
> Both are much better than anything else on the market.
> 
> If you are trying to save 30 grams, by switching to so-so braking, then you must have some sort of mental problem.


Were the 7800 calipers the ones with narrower jockey pulleys?


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## gamara (May 20, 2002)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> 7800 calipers were ranked the best ever. 7900 can apply slightly more max stopping power, but 7800 was slightly less, but much better modulation.
> Both are much better than anything else on the market.


+1 Try the 7900 brake pads or kool stops. I believe that Mr Grumpy is quoting the velonews brake show down if I recall correctly.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Setup of zero gravity brakes is not rocket science. Cut the cable housing to the right length and you will not have problems. The brakes are extremely light and have plenty of stopping power. Dura Ace brakes are the gold standard though. Perfectly in every catagory except boutique bling. I have run my zero G brakes without any issue since 2005.


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## wgeorge111 (Nov 27, 2010)

These are the ones I am considering.
http://www.glorycycles.com/trpr9slrobrc.html


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## zoikz (Sep 5, 2003)

It depends on what kind of rider you are....specifically how heavy you are and whether you use carbon wheels. You can get lighter but they won't stop as well as your garden variety DA.
Personally I'm around 200 off season. Going downhill, in wet conditions, with carbon wheels it becomes very clear that there are some brakes that are better than others. The DA 7900 are absolutely fantastic. Modulation is not particularly different than older DA, Red or Zero Gravity, but for all out stopping power they blow everything out of the water.

Zero gravity look cool, function reasonably well and add a lot of panache to your ride. I have some little issues with the brakes (although I think they are the first gen) but really love how they pimp my ride.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

wgeorge111 said:


> These are the ones I am considering.


Now knowing what they cost, I would certainly be in awe of someone who had those brakes on his bike. But keep in mind that there will always be nay-sayers who would question your judgement, often behind your back. If you don't care about that, get 'em!


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Yes, I am.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

rx-79g said:


> Were the 7800 calipers the ones with narrower jockey pulleys?


Do you use 7, 8, or 9 speed pulleys with your 10 speed chain?

Shimano 6,7,8 
http://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Derailleur-Pulley-Pair-fits/dp/B00367370Y



Here is a link for Campy Pulleys.

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=5853


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Do you use 7, 8, or 9 speed pulleys with your 10 speed chain?
> 
> Shimano 6,7,8
> http://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Derailleur-Pulley-Pair-fits/dp/B00367370Y
> ...


That's a good question. Can you tell me what the difference in width is so I can go check?


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

New shoes on your current brakes = best stopping power you can get. Best overall benefit.
New calipers with new shoes = about same stopping/slightly better stopping power (due to new pads), a bike that will not go a lick faster, but weigh a tiny bit less, and a lighter wallet. But, best of all, you'll have cool looking brakes!!


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## zoikz (Sep 5, 2003)

Peanya said:


> New shoes on your current brakes = best stopping power you can get. Best overall benefit.
> New calipers with new shoes = about same stopping/slightly better stopping power (due to new pads), a bike that will not go a lick faster, but weigh a tiny bit less, and a lighter wallet. But, best of all, you'll have cool looking brakes!!


I disagree. A good set of brakes will absolutely make you go faster. Particularly on a technical course you can stay on the gas longer before cornering. Likewise crashing tends to make you slower. By maintaining better control of your bike you'll be a faster and safer rider. A lighter set of brakes however won't have much benefit at all.
One neglected aspect of good braking performance is keeping your rims clean. They will often build up with residue that will impede braking. By the same token sanding off residue and debris off your pads will improve their function as well. Much of perceived bad brake performance is the cables as well. Both in terms of the routing as well as drag in the cables. Simply replacing pads will not give you maximal braking.
I'm surprised nobody has spoken up for swiss stop. I'm really a huge fan of them, especially since the yellow pads work well with alum and CF. For carbon rims the DA pads work well. My favorite by far is the Reynolds blue pads. Apparently they are designed to use with Reynolds rims, which I use, so I can't comment on how they work with other rims.
I found Gravity Research with their lower spring tensions much more finicky with all these things than the DA. With the right maintainance they are feathery and reasonably stout, but never as strong as the DA.
Sounds like wgeorge is looking for some bling and those TRP's sure are purdy. 
I read a review of them and they seemed to be nice, although the comment was generally "almost as good as DA"
http://velonews.competitor.com/2009...d-and-ridden-trp-r960-dual-pivot-brakes_89441


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

zoikz said:


> I disagree. A good set of brakes will absolutely make you go faster. Particularly on a technical course you can stay on the gas longer before cornering. Likewise crashing tends to make you slower. By maintaining better control of your bike you'll be a faster and safer rider. A lighter set of brakes however won't have much benefit at all.
> One neglected aspect of good braking performance is keeping your rims clean. They will often build up with residue that will impede braking. By the same token sanding off residue and debris off your pads will improve their function as well. Much of perceived bad brake performance is the cables as well. Both in terms of the routing as well as drag in the cables. Simply replacing pads will not give you maximal braking.
> I'm surprised nobody has spoken up for swiss stop. I'm really a huge fan of them, especially since the yellow pads work well with alum and CF. For carbon rims the DA pads work well. My favorite by far is the Reynolds blue pads. Apparently they are designed to use with Reynolds rims, which I use, so I can't comment on how they work with other rims.
> I found Gravity Research with their lower spring tensions much more finicky with all these things than the DA. With the right maintainance they are feathery and reasonably stout, but never as strong as the DA.
> ...


I think you miss the point of what you are quoting. Good braking is good braking, and Peanya and others are saying that you will get good braking with a range of modern brakes and excellent pads, like the Swiss Stops you mention. He didn't mean the brakes didn't matter, just that replacing one very good brake for another similarly good brake isn't going to help anything. Even a $30 a pair set of Tektros would still allow for excellent stopping and modulation when teamed with good pads and rims. Anything above that is a bonus, or just bling.

If I was building a pro bike for the minimum cash, I'd buy pro level cranks, bearing parts and higher end chains, cassettes and shifters. I'd finish it out with Tiagra level derailleurs and calipers. These parts are not load bearing and just don't have to work hard to produce good performance. (Don't worry, I wouldn't actually build such a Frankenbike.)


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## wgeorge111 (Nov 27, 2010)

> Sounds like wgeorge is looking for some bling and those TRP's sure are purdy.


You are correct. The reason for the upgrade is for some bling. I want to get some more bling to match my handlebars and seat that are on the bike.

Handlebars: (already on the bike)
http://www.bicycleeverything.com/products/3T-Zefiro-LTD-Bike-Aerobars.html

Seat: (already on the bike)
http://www.glorycycles.com/seitslrtefls.html


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## zoikz (Sep 5, 2003)

well if that's the game.
How about;


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## zoikz (Sep 5, 2003)

*whoops.*

here it is
also you're running up a pretty big tab. If you really want your bike to look hot, deep dish carbon wheels. Reynolds Strike probably has the best price to dish ratio.


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## wgeorge111 (Nov 27, 2010)

> well if that's the game.
> How about;


That is nice. Only drawback is that I cannot use clip on aero bars with it.


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## wgeorge111 (Nov 27, 2010)

It has Zipp 404 carbon clinchers


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## zoikz (Sep 5, 2003)

Oh you're killing me man.
Nothing will make a bike with clip-on's look cool. Save your money.
Exception would be if you're using it for your race bike and need to use it for time trials. Then it is forgivable.


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## wgeorge111 (Nov 27, 2010)

> Nothing will make a bike with clip-on's look cool. Save your money.
> Exception would be if you're using it for your race bike and need to use it for time trials. Then it is forgivable.


I use the bike for Duathlons so it has clip ons. But it looks good. This is the bar and clip ons that are on the bike.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

rx-79g said:


> That's a good question. Can you tell me what the difference in width is so I can go check?



Never measured them, but why do you think that Campy sells different pulley bolts for 8, 9, & 10? (could they be different lengths?)

I remember when Campy first came out with 9 speed. "Campy Only" said that you could use the old 8 speed derailleur with the 9 speed Ergos, if you changed out the pulleys and bolts, so that the chain would run quieter.


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## woz (Dec 26, 2005)

I posted a pretty thorough post of my thoughts on a bunch of different boutique brakes this morning. You can read the whole thing, here: http://fairwheelbikes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=104&t=7582

Warning, it is a bit of a long read, but I guess that's to be expected with the number of brakes. It includes brakes from Ax Lightness (2), Bontrager, Ciamillo (3), EE, Far and Near, Kcnc (3), M5, Shimano, Thm and Trp.


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

Fantastic review :thumbsup:
THANKS!


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Never measured them, but why do you think that Campy sells different pulley bolts for 8, 9, & 10? (could they be different lengths?)
> 
> I remember when Campy first came out with 9 speed. "Campy Only" said that you could use the old 8 speed derailleur with the 9 speed Ergos, if you changed out the pulleys and bolts, so that the chain would run quieter.


I don't know a lot about current Campy. But I was more interested in your assertion about Shimano 9 and 10 speed pulley widths.


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

duathlons? you shouldn't even be using your brakes in duathlons until the transition. why do you think you need $450 brake calipers?


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## wgeorge111 (Nov 27, 2010)

> duathlons? you shouldn't even be using your brakes in duathlons until the transition. why do you think you need $450 brake calipers?


If you notice my bike is not a triathlon bike. I road ride alot but I also use the bike for duathlons. I do not want a tri specific geometry bike. I never once said I need $450 brake calipers. I simply just want them . Yeah only for the bling.


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## JohnHenry (Aug 9, 2006)

wgeorge111 said:


> If you notice my bike is not a triathlon bike. I road ride alot but I also use the bike for duathlons. I do not want a tri specific geometry bike. I never once said I need $450 brake calipers. I simply just want them . Yeah only for the bling.


get the zero g's direct and you can choose your own colors
http://cycling.ciamillo.com/


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Read that review and look at the Far and Near brakes. We just got some and they are nice. I like the looks and feel better than the KCNC. I might replace me RECORD brakes with these.


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## GirchyGirchy (Feb 12, 2004)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Never measured them, but why do you think that Campy sells different pulley bolts for 8, 9, & 10? (could they be different lengths?)
> 
> I remember when Campy first came out with 9 speed. "Campy Only" said that you could use the old 8 speed derailleur with the 9 speed Ergos, if you changed out the pulleys and bolts, so that the chain would run quieter.


I think he's poking fun at you. Just ignore him.


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## Uprwstsdr (Jul 17, 2002)

I really like the ee brakes - http://eecycleworks.com/eebrake-new.html

If you click on the review link under eebrake you can access the comprehensive Velo News brake comparison from June 2009 that Grumpy referenced above.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q...-cnc-brake-calipers-with-swissstop-brake-pads

This is (I believe) identical to the Feather in the tests, but costs $140 and comes with Swiss Stop pads. They liked the Feather, except for the pads, so I'd vote this the most bling for the ka-ching.


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## wgeorge111 (Nov 27, 2010)

Sweet. I did not know they came in this color.


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## Sherpa23 (Nov 5, 2001)

I'm a huge fan of the Revl brakes by The Hive. They're 115g per wheel and they work. They have plenty of stopping power but superior modulation. It is extremely helpful if you're on a technical decent or course, and x10 if it's wet at all. They come in different configurations for the different brake levers and you can easily swap out the small parts in the event you change component groups or levers later. And, they are very easy to set up. Once set up, they don't need to be readjusted.

http://bythehive.com/revl/


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## wgeorge111 (Nov 27, 2010)

The TRP 970 SL brakes are now on my bike. They are 100% equal to the Dura Ace calipers in modulation and stoping power. So the main difference is that the TRPs are lighter and much better looking


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## SinnerDC2 (Apr 15, 2010)

96 gram seat is nice. I've been looking for cheap seat around 100g. My current comfy seat is 350ish grams.


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## wgeorge111 (Nov 27, 2010)

> 96 gram seat is nice. I've been looking for cheap seat around 100g. My current comfy seat is 350ish grams.


Here are some more affordable lightweight seats.
http://www.stealthcycling.com/category/saddles/


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Sherpa23 said:


> I'm a huge fan of the Revl brakes by The Hive. They're 115g per wheel and they work. They have plenty of stopping power but superior modulation. It is extremely helpful if you're on a technical decent or course, and x10 if it's wet at all. They come in different configurations for the different brake levers and you can easily swap out the small parts in the event you change component groups or levers later. And, they are very easy to set up. Once set up, they don't need to be readjusted.
> 
> http://bythehive.com/revl/


those look pretty stout. looks like someone else finally paid attention to what makes a brake flex, and they've designed something that is both light and stiff. how's training going?


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## cinelliguy (Jan 4, 2011)

I have run Zero Gravity brakes for several years now and many Ks of miles on my Kestral Evoke. I find that they are not better or worse than my other bikes/brakes with Ultegra or Chorus, or Record kit. I believe that a well adjusted set of cables and properly set up levers will give one all the modulation and control one really needs.

I spoke to Ciamillo the other day about return spring pressure on my rear brake as I had some issues with the calipers not returning fully. This was in part due to the way I have my brake cables routed though my Winwood Road Scholar bars, not entirely the springs fault, Anyway, on the call to customer service I was told to send them back for a warranty retrofit, no charge. Yep, like 3 years later! Since they have a "tune-up" program for $100 which includes: re-anodizing, new cams for more power, high rate return springs, new pads I am going that way. Instrumental in my decision was their very responsive customer service.


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## Sherpa23 (Nov 5, 2001)

cxwrench said:


> those look pretty stout. looks like someone else finally paid attention to what makes a brake flex, and they've designed something that is both light and stiff. how's training going?


Oh man, just saw this. Training is good. Got away for some warm weather and some miles. Hard to be back in the snow for now.

These brakes really are good. They're from your neck of the woods, too. They are the first aftermarket brakes that I have used and really liked.

By the way, I think that I am going to send you that rear wheel to redish. It's off by about 2mm and it drives me nuts.


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## jaybee64 (Jan 4, 2011)

Does anyone know what aftermarket pads like Koolstops would fit in a Shimano TIagra brake set? The Tiagra brake doesn't have a removable pad/shoe like the higher level Shimano brakes do.


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