# Master X Light Paint



## estagnitta (Feb 19, 2010)

My Master frameset was ordered one month ago by my LBS, and finally arrived today. Excited, I dropped by to look at the frame, and noticed that there is a speck of black paint (the size of a grain of rice) on one side of the white "Colnago" decal on the downtube. The rice sized speck is right after the "C." You have to get close to see it, but when close enough you know it's there and it looks like "C.OLNAGO" That is when all the horror stories I've heard about Colnago paint jobs came rushing back to me.

Ordering another frame (after I go through the headache of convincing LBS and Colnago) will take another month or so.

Would you care? Am I being too picky.


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## mriddle (Nov 16, 2005)

*ask for a discount...*

Tell them you won't accept unless an additional discount is given.
Then touch it up.
What color code?


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## estagnitta (Feb 19, 2010)

white


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

Yup, demand a discount, or tell them to send it back. It won't go back to Italy, IIRC they now send them somewhere in California for touch ups like that. So the wait won't quite be a month, you would think any way.


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## WrenchScienceCliff (Feb 12, 2010)

It is really too bad that the LBS would miss that blemish (or possibly try to ignore it?), but I'm glad they are taking care of you. Seems a shame that you had to do any "convincing" though. At WS, we find blemishes and imperfections on Colnagos somewhat more frequently than other frames, but we don't let it slip through or try to pass it off. Bottom line is that the customer always get a perfect paint job. Occasionally, that means a longer delay because we have to get a second frame or do some touch up work. Colnago is a good company and we've had good experience with them taking care of us with issues like these. 
Any photos of said blem?


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

estagnitta said:


> My Master frameset was ordered one month ago by my LBS, and finally arrived today. Excited, I dropped by to look at the frame, and noticed that there is a speck of black paint (the size of a grain of rice) on one side of the white "Colnago" decal on the downtube. The rice sized speck is right after the "C." You have to get close to see it, but when close enough you know it's there and it looks like "C.OLNAGO" That is when all the horror stories I've heard about Colnago paint jobs came rushing back to me.
> 
> Ordering another frame (after I go through the headache of convincing LBS and Colnago) will take another month or so.
> 
> Would you care? Am I being too picky.


I would definitely care on one of the higher end frames like the Master, EPS, C50, and maybe even the CX-1. My Artes, I don't care that much about.


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## estagnitta (Feb 19, 2010)

The frameset is still at the LBS, and I will post a pic of the paint blemish very shortly.

The black paint blemish seems to be under the glossy topcoat. Can I just touch that up myself with some white paint and then put some gloss over the white paint?


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## WrenchScienceCliff (Feb 12, 2010)

Seems like an at-home touchup might be possible. Let's see that photo...
Also I gotta plug my guys over at RR Velo (http://roadrunnervelo.com/), they are the kings of touchups, repairs, etc. Often is faster and cheaper than shipping the frame back to the original manufacturer.


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## JeremyP (Apr 30, 2006)

Is this the special from pista?


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

JeremyP said:


> Is this the special from pista?


I was wondering the same thing because the Master X Light is only offered in Saronni, Molteni, and Zabel this year and I have never really seen an all white Master X Light with black lettering before, so I had a picture of PR99 in my head when the OP described the frame.


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## estagnitta (Feb 19, 2010)

No, it is not a white frameset. I don't think I was clear enough in my original post. It is a Saronni red colored Master frameset. There is a black speck of paint the size of a grain of rice on the white decal on the downtube where "Colnago" is written. Colnago then applied a layer of top coat over the decal and the paint blemish, thereby congealing the black speck there forever. The white decal now kind of looks like this: "C.OLNAGO" with the period representing the black paint speck.

I wish I could provide a picture sooner, but the frame is still at my LBS while I decide if he should send it back or if I should juast try to touch it up myself.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

estagnitta said:


> No, it is not a white frameset. I don't think I was clear enough in my original post. It is a Saronni red colored Master frameset. There is a black speck of paint the size of a grain of rice on the white decal on the downtube where "Colnago" is written. Colnago then applied a layer of top coat over the decal and the paint blemish, thereby congealing the black speck there forever. The white decal now kind of looks like this: "C.OLNAGO" with the period representing the black paint speck.
> 
> I wish I could provide a picture sooner, but the frame is still at my LBS while I decide if he should send it back or if I should juast try to touch it up myself.


Send it back. In fact, I would tell them that I want a completely new frameset and not one that has been touched up. The reason being I would always know where that speck was and I would be looking for any blemish in the touch up. If it was in a spot less conspicuous than the white on the downtube, I might live with it. I would not live with it where it is located right now.

Another thing, I would not try to touch it up myself. First, it will leave a bump in the paint and secondly who knows exactly how it will turn out.

Send it back or get a good discount on it.


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## estagnitta (Feb 19, 2010)

Thanks Fab. I think you're right - any touch up (even if I manage to match up the white) will leave a bump on the paint. 

Now the annoying part starts - convincing my LBS and Colnago that I want a new frameset and not a touched up one.

I really expected more from Colnago, especially after dropping so much coin on the frame. I'm starting to regret not purchasing another Pinarello.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

estagnitta said:


> Thanks Fab. I think you're right - any touch up (even if I manage to match up the white) will leave a bump on the paint.
> 
> Now the annoying part starts - convincing my LBS and Colnago that I want a new frameset and not a touched up one.
> 
> I really expected more from Colnago, especially after dropping so much coin on the frame. I'm starting to regret not purchasing another Pinarello.


Yeah, you sound like Koyaa about the Pinarello. I too expect a lot more from Colnago. My C50 came to me with a chip in the clearcoat right above the brake bridge, but a little black marker took care of the problem. That works so well on the clear coated carbon fiber whenever the clear coat gets a mark in it.

Personally, I think the "you are getting a one of a kind hand painted frame and the blemishes just add character to the frame" response from Colnago and dealers is a bunch of BS for "we just don't feel like dealing with quality control regarding the painting of these frames".

When you pay $2,000 for a frame, and especially when you pay $5,000 for a frame, there should be no issue whatsoever when you take possession of it. I understand that it is inevitable that some frames will have issues, but they should be far and few between at that price and the replacement frame should come along with absolutely no issue. If Colnago and the LBS really believe that there is no issue with your frame, how hard would it be for Colnago to take it back, put it in inventory, and sell it as a brand new frame to somebody else? So, the replacement frame should be on its way immediately. Same goes for it being defective. If it is defective, it should be replaced immediately too. So, there really shouldn't be any haggling on a brand new frame.


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

estagnitta said:
 

> Now the annoying part starts - convincing my LBS and Colnago that I want a new frameset and not a touched up one.
> 
> I really expected more from Colnago, especially after dropping so much coin on the frame. I'm starting to regret not purchasing another Pinarello.


So are we to understand that you have not approached your LBS or Colnago about what your options are? How about you see what they say when you talk to them before you start wishing for a Pinarello.
Though if you do choose that route, I'm sure you will have no trouble finding an Italian made steel frame in Pinarello's range of bikes.


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## estagnitta (Feb 19, 2010)

mtb,

I spoke to my LBS. I got the run-around about these being one of a kind hand-made frames. He also advised that the next one he orders may have a similar defect. Despite him putting up a solid wall of defences, I was left with the impression that he would ultimately re-order another frame. The ball is in my court as to whether he does that (and I wait another month or so for another frame) or whether I keep the frame as is. I agree with fabs, and the blemish will bother me to no end, so I will have him re-order the frame. 

My wish that I had purchased a Pinarello is not dependant on what my LBS says they will do to rectify the problem. My wish that I had purchased a Pinarello stems from the fact that I have owned two in the past and have found the paint jobs to be immaculate and headache free.


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

estagnitta said:


> mtb,
> 
> I spoke to my LBS. I got the run-around about these being one of a kind hand-made frames. He also advised that the next one he orders may have a similar defect. Despite him putting up a solid wall of defences, I was left with the impression that he would ultimately re-order another frame. The ball is in my court as to whether he does that (and I wait another month or so for another frame) or whether I keep the frame as is. I agree with fabs, and the blemish will bother me to no end, so I will have him re-order the frame.
> 
> My wish that I had purchased a Pinarello is not dependant on what my LBS says they will do to rectify the problem. My wish that I had purchased a Pinarello stems from the fact that I have owned two in the past and have found the paint jobs to be immaculate and headache free.


Thanks for the clarity.
The new frame may have a similar defect, but it is unlikely. Make the LBS order you a new one. He will not be on the hook for anything. Colnago is really good for that. We have had paint flaws on a frame or two that we refused to accept. Colnago has no problems taking them back. He will likely not even have to send the frame back. Colnago will probably send him a new frame, and call UPS to pick the original frame up and take it to the American touch up painter that they use. All he will have to do is pick up the phone and call Chicago, and tape up the box that your Master came in.
And Pinarellos have nicer paint jobs because they are painted in Taiwan. They are pretty good at it over there.
I keed, I keed.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

mtbbmet said:


> Thanks for the clarity.
> The new frame may have a similar defect, but it is unlikely. Make the LBS order you a new one. He will not be on the hook for anything. Colnago is really good for that. We have had paint flaws on a frame or two that we refused to accept. Colnago has no problems taking them back. He will likely not even have to send the frame back. Colnago will probably send him a new frame, and call UPS to pick the original frame up and take it to the American touch up painter that they use. All he will have to do is pick up the phone and call Chicago, and tape up the box that your Master came in.
> And Pinarellos have nicer paint jobs because they are painted in Taiwan. They are pretty good at it over there.
> I keed, I keed.


You would think that having the Sistine Chapel in Rome would give the Italians an edge on painting compared to the Taiwanese, but I guess it isn't so.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

I'm really surprised about the issues with paint jobs on Colnagos, because it's generally been accepted as their strong point.

If anyone plans to resort to Pinarello because you don't like the paint jobs on Colnagos, check the posts on the Pinarello forum around five years ago. Pinarellos are notorious for their lousy paint jobs. From rampant orange peel, to paint lifting, to cheesy decals on the $5,000 Dogma at the time. One of the recent reviews of the current 2010 Dogma mentioned how the Pinarello badge on the headtube was peeling off! Back then, I remember people sending in their brand new Pinarello frames to Calfee to have it re-clearcoated.

If anything, Colnagos have always had a reputation for great paint jobs and fit and finish. I am really surprised that the factory would have let out the door a frame with a black spot the size of a rice grain. I'm wondering whether the frame was painted by some entity other than Colnago.

It will be difficult to remove that black spot, as the clear coat has to be removed, then restored. The clear coat gives depth to the finish. If you paint on top the clear coat, you will have a 3D affect with the white patch sitting above the blemish. In addition, Colnagos use thick clear coats, so it's hard to build it back up in an imperceptible fashion. The blemish should have been corrected before the clear coat went on.

But if you guys wanna go chasing Pinarellos, good luck! They have improved their paint jobs in recent years due to the criticism on the RBR forums, but they are still not in the same class as Colnagos.


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## Dinosaur (Jan 29, 2004)

Decals? Has Colnago gone to decals? I have an '02 Master X-Light LX23, hand painted, long process. The owner of my LBS explained it to me when I picked up my bike. My MXL did have a little over-spray from the black paint on the st. Hardly noticeable (accept by me). I'd just get the bike and ride the hell out of it. The bike should be about the ride, not the paint. If you want a bike with nice paint order a Trek Project One.

I'm not being negative, sooner or later your bike is going to get that first paint chip anyway. I'd be happy to have a new Master X-Light. With the prices now, I will probably never own another one. But I have one now.


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## WrenchScienceCliff (Feb 12, 2010)

At a former bike shop of mine I worked with a gent who, before going on his maiden voyage with a new frameset (for personal use) would ceremoniously scratch paint on the top tube to "break in the paintjob." A painful baptism...but I think it is a good-humored approach to the inevitable toll of time and wear.
Colnago's paint shop is in the top percentile of bike painters in the world...but let's not forget its all about the ride!


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## estagnitta (Feb 19, 2010)

Can anybody confirm whether the new (2009-2010) Master X Lights in Saronni should have decals? Specifically, the area where "Colnago" is written on the downtube?


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## estagnitta (Feb 19, 2010)

This is the reason I asked whether anybody can confirm that Colnago uses decals on the Master X Light. The frame I received in Saronni color has a large decal on teh downtube. Colnago's website, on the other hand, states teh following: 

Our special paint process creates stunning-looking bicycles. Rather than use decals that fade and peel, we create our colour panels with paint, carefully masking areas of the frame in a multi-step process. It takes longer, but the result is a frame that looks as good as it rides, and that will stay looking good for years.

Does anybody know?


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

estagnitta said:


> This is the reason I asked whether anybody can confirm that Colnago uses decals on the Master X Light. The frame I received in Saronni color has a large decal on teh downtube. Colnago's website, on the other hand, states teh following:
> 
> Our special paint process creates stunning-looking bicycles. Rather than use decals that fade and peel, we create our colour panels with paint, carefully masking areas of the frame in a multi-step process. It takes longer, but the result is a frame that looks as good as it rides, and that will stay looking good for years.
> 
> Does anybody know?


Was it a brand new Master X Light in PR82 that you bought?


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## estagnitta (Feb 19, 2010)

Yes, brand new in PR82.


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

The ht badge is a decal, the rest is painted. AFAIK anyway.


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## WrenchScienceCliff (Feb 12, 2010)

Master X-Lights have been using decals in the classic schemes for years now. It is a large white decal over top of paint which is then clearcoated.


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## estagnitta (Feb 19, 2010)

Thanks Cliff. I was getting worried about the authenticity of the frame I received (with the paint blemish and decals). 

That is still odd, though, especially as Colnago states on their website that they do not use decals. I guess they should update their website to reflect the fact that they have resorted to decals.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

estagnitta said:


> Thanks Cliff. I was getting worried about the authenticity of the frame I received (with the paint blemish and decals).
> 
> That is still odd, though, especially as Colnago states on their website that they do not use decals. I guess they should update their website to reflect the fact that they have resorted to decals.


The distinction between Pinarello and Colnago when it comes to decals is that Colnago puts all decals under clear coat, which is how it should be. There are decals on Colnagos of course, such as the logo on the headtube, and two labels at the BB junction, e.g., Made in Italy and forget the other one. These are under clearcoat so it can't come off or fade.

On Pinarellos, they use a thick headtube badge (not decal) that can't be painted over, and it tends to peel off. On the old 2005 or so Dogmas, they used large decals on the frame that weren't clearcoated, so they would peel off also. This is unacceptable on a $5,000 frame. This is probably what the Colnago website means.

I do my own automotive refinishing, and I own paint guns used to paint Mercedes and Porsches. The paint guns themselves now cost around $600, 'tho I got them for much cheaper 15 years ago. I joke that I can't afford a Ferrari (probably because I own two Colnagos), but I do own the gun used to paint them. What impresses me about Colnago paint jobs is the total lack of orange peel on the finish coat. Take a look at the bike frames of every other manufacturer and you will find orange peel on 30% to 50% of the frame. Just the other week my car was parked next to an expensive BMW. The black paint job on the car had horrible orange peel. What? You pay $90,000 for a car and get a crappy paint job like that?

On custom paint jobs for cars, this orange peel has to be laboriously colorsanded down with finer grits of sandpaper, then rubbed out with polishing compound. This gives a syrupy, flawless finish. Both my Colnago frames have the same finish. It is not feasible to do colorsanding on bike frames due to the nooks and crannies, so this has to be shot on. Even in problem areas such as behind the chainstays and fork legs, look for orange peel because it's hard to paint these areas. On my frames, you can barely detect any, but for all intents and purposes for lay people, it's perfect. The underside of the BB is painted as flawlessly as the top tube. The problem is the paint job is so gorgeous you don't want to ride the bike!

Maybe I got lucky on my frames. I have seen a Colnago frame here and there in a bike shop with a bit of orange peel, but it is rare.


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## Dinosaur (Jan 29, 2004)

*Decals or not..*

It's still a Colnago Master X-Light under all that paint. Just put a good coat of wax on the thing and ride it. I would have bought a new one three years ago but Veltec was really slow and Colnago's had a very long waiting list.


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## Karbon Kev (Sep 7, 2009)

pictures please estagnitta!


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## estagnitta (Feb 19, 2010)

KarbonKev,

I cannot post a pic. My LBS where I purchased the frame has returned it. I could not live with the paint blemish. Now I have to wait another 30 days for another frame to arrive!


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## Jbartmc (Sep 14, 2007)

estagnitta said:


> KarbonKev,
> 
> I cannot post a pic. My LBS where I purchased the frame has returned it. I could not live with the paint blemish. Now I have to wait another 30 days for another frame to arrive!


Glad to see you are getting a replacement. Now the first scratch will be yours. You should get a new frame in perfect condition, no matter what or who makes it.


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## Dinosaur (Jan 29, 2004)

*Of course you realize*



estagnitta said:


> KarbonKev,
> 
> I cannot post a pic. My LBS where I purchased the frame has returned it. I could not live with the paint blemish. Now I have to wait another 30 days for another frame to arrive!



30 days Italian time=90 days American time.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Dinosaur said:


> 30 days Italian time=90 days American time.


LOL That is so true.


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## Dinosaur (Jan 29, 2004)

*Chances are*



estagnitta said:


> KarbonKev,
> 
> I cannot post a pic. My LBS where I purchased the frame has returned it. I could not live with the paint blemish. Now I have to wait another 30 days for another frame to arrive!



Go over that replacement frame with a fine tooth comb and chances are you will find another blemish or imperfection somewhere.


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