# No love for the Vuelta



## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

I guess it's the red-headed stepchild of the Grand Tours... 2 stages down now and not a single post about it... 

Maybe it's the horrible picture, once again?
Oh, the usual grainy blurriness, but now with _New! Improved!_ Massive color saturation!! Every blue is now a blistering cobalt, sometimes the colors get messed up (yesterday's TTT w/ Quick-Step in GREEN kits was interesting... :lol


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## baker921 (Jul 20, 2007)

It's been a slow start. Lots of teams folding, riders moving elsewhere next year, and a feeling that we're seeing the B teams perform with mixed loyalties. Big one day race in Hamburg today attracted a lot of the stars who weren't wanting to commit to a 3 weeker.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

it should get better in a few days - the first week has more summit finishes that the entire Tour, I think, including Saturday's final climb that has sections at 28% (by some estimates the steepest to ever be in a grand tour)...that should be fun.


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Its Schlanger. Every time he says Vuelta - *AHHHHHHH *- Espania I want to throw my shoe at the TV.


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## vipergts (Aug 18, 2011)

Good way to put it as the red headed step child. If the US Pro Challenge is any indication going forward the vuelta will remain this way.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

I wish the Vuelta would have better camera work in it (and I expected as such considering ASO purchased 49% of it.) The grainy picture isn't attractive, and the saturation is killing my eyes. It's too bad, because it could be a very attractive race to watch (and Spain is a beautiful country.)


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

I get good image on Eurosport. The saturation problem was temporary at least today I didn't notice anything bad.


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## baker921 (Jul 20, 2007)

Salsa_Lover said:


> I get good image on Eurosport. The saturation problem was temporary at least today I didn't notice anything bad.


yes and Kelly's back tomorrow.:thumbsup:


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## simonaway427 (Jul 12, 2010)

Stage 2 was funny - SPOILER AHEAD!!!!







In the first hour, the two NBC clowns were talking about how much of a sprinters finish it was going to be. Fast fwd to the last kilometre when all the spring trains completely derailed and ended up being a free-for-all.

Did no one know about this hill at the end? It caught everyone by surprise!!


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## simonaway427 (Jul 12, 2010)

oh yeah, and the picture is worse than my VHS tape of "Ewoks-Battle for Endor" movie that I recorded from TV in 1985.


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

I've been watching on the universal site and it's subpar standard definition. Huge difference from the Tour feed. Not happy. Only watching due to some key big-name riders in it.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

I read Goss withdrew today.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Salsa_Lover said:


> I get good image on Eurosport. The saturation problem was temporary at least today I didn't notice anything bad.


The US channel today was horrible most of the way through.


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## wibly wobly (Apr 23, 2009)

simonaway427 said:


> oh yeah, and the picture is worse than my VHS tape of "Ewoks-Battle for Endor" movie that I recorded from TV in 1985.


Actually, that's a surprisingly good movie.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

what was the deal with all the mechanicals in the TTT yesterday?


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

simonaway427 said:


> Stage 2 was funny - SPOILER AHEAD!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I laffered during coverage this morning...going on and on about Cav's leadout train and it was nowhere to be seen at the end. Not unsurprising given the contour of the finish...but GoGo and his sidekick just don't seem to have it together. "And the winner is the rider from Sky!!!"...and it takes them 2 minutes to get the riders' name.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

i just cant ever get into it. maybe its the coverage. maybe its the fact most teams have put their big riders in the giro and the tour. maybe its burnout. 

but for some reason i am looking forward to seeing what the pro cycling challenge is like...


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Marc said:


> Cav's leadout train and it was nowhere to be seen.


How much team spirit is left at HTC?


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> How much team spirit is left at HTC?


Goss dropped out from Vuelta yesterday...and Cav is dropped as of now.

According to Eurosport, yesterday at the finish Cav was literally screaming for a teammate to lead/help him out and his entire team and been ridden off by the pace.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I'm still recovering from The Tour, but I'll be watching the Vuelta. Nice finish yesterday. Would have really suited the likes of Gilbert. It was nice to see Boonen in action again.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

ouch. you would think they would be racing for resumes.



Marc said:


> Goss dropped out from Vuelta yesterday...and Cav is dropped as of now.
> 
> According to Eurosport, yesterday at the finish Cav was literally screaming for a teammate to lead/help him out and his entire team and been ridden off by the pace.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

weltyed said:


> ouch. you would think they would be racing for resumes.


a lot of guys already have contracts... and of those that don't, I figure there's a reason nobody's picked 'em up yet.


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## innergel (Jun 14, 2002)

I'm liking the Vuelta but I agree that the picture and US announcers are awful. I seriously did a double take seeing QS in green. I was thinking "is there some tribute QS is doing that I don't know about that the green kits are for?" I was totally stumped. Why can't we have the TDF quality? Spain would be awesome to see in HD. 

Todd Gologowski, or whatever his name is, is awful. He almost ruined the TDF for me. 

The mechanicals in the TTT were puzzling as well.


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## cq20 (Mar 24, 2007)

wrt "what was the deal with all the mechanicals in the TTT yesterday?", the transition between the ramp and the road seemed to be very severe and appeared to knock a few rear wheels out of line (and the bike holders at the TTT start appeared to be chosen for reasons other than their ability to support a bike upright and steady).

wrt "Cav's leadout train and it was nowhere to be seen", Cav's (Twitter) account is "Hard finish! We were riding for young Degenkolb for jersey, but we couldn't quite get organised. I could only get him to 700m#shitleadoutman"


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## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

innergel said:


> I'm liking the Vuelta but I agree that the picture and US announcers are awful. I seriously did a double take seeing QS in green. I was thinking "is there some tribute QS is doing that I don't know about that the green kits are for?" I was totally stumped. *Why can't we have the TDF quality?* Spain would be awesome to see in HD.
> 
> Todd Gologowski, or whatever his name is, is awful. He almost ruined the TDF for me.
> 
> The mechanicals in the TTT were puzzling as well.


Is there an answer for this? I was looking forward to watching the Vuelta but have been massively disappointed in the picture quality.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Apart from a wonderful TdF, this has been a funny old season and rather dull. 
Armstrong and Contador Scandals have done immense harm and the bad taste these "Stars" have left in our mouths hasn't been rinsed out by the racing. 
The Giro was not as good as usual. Boonen and Cancellara etc didn't turn up, leaving the field clear for Gilbert to clean up in the Classics. Liquigas, Movistar and other big teams have underperformed. Losing HTC is an immense blow and lowered the mood still further. Cav, 'who wasn't at his best in my opinion, has continued to dominate the other sprinters who, apart from the odd win, failed to show up when it mattered. Tyler winning a TdF Stage after all this time was hardly a thrill - it had to happen sooner or later, likewise Greipel. 
The poor old Vuelta has the feel of a *** End, which is a shame as there is the prospect of some good racing between riders we don't get to see a lot.
Maybe the Worlds will get the juices running? I hope so, but I doubt it.


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## MikeBiker (Mar 9, 2003)

A poor quality picture is better than no picture. The announcers do seem to be the second team.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

here's some Vuelta love:

"The summer heat was ideal for Lastras, who attacked a four-man break near the top of the Alto de la Santa. He opened a 20-second gap over the summit with just over 12km to go, but it was a real drag race with Sylvain Chavanel and Markel Irizar, both solid time trialists, leading the chase.

Lastras widened the gap to 26 seconds on the sinuous descent, but started to lose ground on the flats. With 2km to go, the Movistar veteran stopped to shake out his legs and looked to be cramping, but he nursed a 12-second gap under the red kite to win by 15 seconds to Chavanel.

Lastras, 35, quickly dedicated his fifth grand-tour victory to Tondo, who died in a freak accident in a parking garage while training at Sierra Nevada in May.

“This is for Xavi, for the ones who are close to me and for life, which we all know is precious,” said Lastras


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Agreed. Nice stage today.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

spade2you said:


> I'm still recovering from The Tour, but I'll be watching the Vuelta. Nice finish yesterday. Would have really suited the likes of Gilbert. It was nice to see Boonen in action again.


Yes! Although... I was literally screaming at the television; "NOOOOO- TOO SOON!!!" :mad2:
I think Tommeke's been away so long he forgot how to race.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

robdamanii said:


> I wish the Vuelta would have better camera work in it (and I expected as such considering ASO purchased 49% of it.) The grainy picture isn't attractive, and the saturation is killing my eyes. It's too bad, because it could be a very attractive race to watch (and Spain is a beautiful country.)


Yes, exactly! Why, oh why, is it so bad?
It could be -it _should_ be- stunning.
And same situation w/ the Giro- beaUtiful countryside, yet painful to watch due to the horrid picture. I hate to say it, but my eyes were much happier to watch ATOC instead of the Giro.


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## PoorCyclist (Oct 14, 2010)

I bought the universal sports stream package.
the picture quality is horrible compared to TDF.. the bit rate is 1.6 out of 3.5 does anyone get that as well?


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

RRRoubaix said:


> Yes, exactly! Why, oh why, is it so bad?
> It could be -it _should_ be- stunning.
> And same situation w/ the Giro- beaUtiful countryside, yet painful to watch due to the horrid picture. I hate to say it, but my eyes were much happier to watch ATOC instead of the Giro.


Comparatively, the Giro was good quality when viewed next to the Vuelta...


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## innergel (Jun 14, 2002)

Henry Porter said:


> *Is there an answer for this? *I was looking forward to watching the Vuelta but have been massively disappointed in the picture quality.


Unfortunately I think the answer is to watch the US Pro Challenge in Colorado. Versus rolled out the A-team on the annoucing crew and the HD video from the Garden of the Gods in the prologue was spectacular. Of course it didn't hurt that I was there in June for family vacation. 

Still, I've got the Vuelta recording and I'll watch it at some point.


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## fontarin (Mar 28, 2009)

The quality was horrible last year on the Universal feeds too. Some days you couldn't tell which team was which if the jerseys were similar. I've got the cycling package this year, but haven't gotten around to watching it yet. I did catch the Pro Challenge on my free iphone app yesterday, though. Good coverage and good picture there.


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## takl23 (Jul 22, 2007)

I'm not paying $14.99USD to watch it online.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

takl23 said:


> I'm not paying $14.99USD to watch it online.


Don't blame you. Especially since you can get better video and far better commentators on Eurosport.

I got Vuelta in the Spring in purchasing the Giro...I'm watching on Eurosport. Tired of Universalsports using commentators who don't know riders names, hell they don't even know the stages. They could commentate a ride on a rollercoaster, and put you to sleep I swear.


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## The Weasel (Jul 20, 2006)

For me it mostly the picture quality. But also there's no buildup, no prerace show that kind of gets you into it. The coverage just kind of starts and they toss you into the stage. Also, it's my little protest against that evil Spanish cycling federation.


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## fontarin (Mar 28, 2009)

I'd like to watch it live on Eurosport, but I'm usually stuck watching it after work when I can, so Universal works for me.


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## LesDiablesRouges (Jul 17, 2009)

It's a shame that this race is being treated like a semi-professional race because frankly it's been pretty good. 

Picture quality is abhorrent and the announcing is cynical and poor. 

If versus spruced this bad boy up put it in HD it would do fairly well. 

Nothing will have the cache of the our but frankly the Vuelta to me has been a bit more interesting because of the heat. There has been a lot of bonking.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Are you all complaining about the picture quality because it is an Internet feed?

I get good quality images on eurosport and also on ITV4 ( a British feed) the best is eurosport France and I am seeing it on a 50" plasma so it is good, maybe universal got a cheaper low quality feed for America?


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Salsa_Lover said:


> maybe universal got a cheaper low quality feed for America?


I believe UniSports did. It is barely SD and often shows signs of compression. Even at normal size it doesn't look that great...I wouldn't even consider fullscreening it TBH.

Less-than-legal Eurosport does indeed look a bit better.


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## PoorCyclist (Oct 14, 2010)

what's wrong with universal sports website!!

They are putting the each stage's winner pose as the thumbnail of the full replay, thanks for the spoiler before I even click on it!


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## foofighter (Dec 19, 2008)

what a stage today WOW


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

RkFast said:


> Its Schlanger. Every time he says Vuelta - Is it possible to make a sporting event any more boring than these two guys?


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Have been watching on EuroSport live here in Denmark. Picture quality needs help, but the race itself has been great with lots of aggressive riding. Danes are thrilled that Fuglsang is in third place and hope that will improve during tomorrow's ITT.
Anton seems to be waking up now that Rodrig is in the leader's jersey. Scarponi and Nibali both need to hit the jets soon.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

the Vuelta has always been great

it's only people who don't get beyond the TDF/LA years that want to put it down

great racing so far.


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## foofighter (Dec 19, 2008)

i find the vuelta much more enjoyable than watching the USPCC and the Radio Shack show. funny how he does really well on his home soil but is just a supporting guy over in europe


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Salsa_Lover said:


> the Vuelta has always been great
> 
> it's only people who don't get beyond the TDF/LA years that want to put it down
> 
> great racing so far.


I'm just enjoying it as a pro race that it is. Studying what they do, how a race unfolds, etc. 

It was really interesting to see a rider bonk on a hill, pound his handlebar, and then wave the peleton to hurry up and catch him!


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

tried watching the TT last night, you'd see them start and maybe the last couple turns
was really boring sadly


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

atpjunkie said:


> tried watching the TT last night, you'd see them start and maybe the last couple turns
> was really boring sadly


TTs aren't usually the most entertaining to watch, unless you're a TT guy. 

I enjoyed it. The only "problem" with this TT is that it's relatively early in the race and not as decisive. The final TdF TT was much more enjoyable in the sense that the race was going to be won or lost right there! Still, hard to compete with Lemond vs. Fignon in that TT.


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## quadrat (Aug 26, 2011)

spade2you said:


> I'm still recovering from The Tour, but I'll be watching the Vuelta. Nice finish yesterday. Would have really suited the likes of Gilbert. It was nice to see Boonen in action again.


yep, 185th and last in the tt yesterday, 10'49" behind martin. made look rodriguez quite quite good.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

quadrat said:


> yep, 185th and last in the tt yesterday, 10'49" behind martin. made look rodriguez quite quite good.


if he made the time cut the TT was a success for him.


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## Ruonpoint (Aug 22, 2011)

I've got to agree, the horrible picture quality and commentating don't make it that exciting to watch. I did catch the end of last Saturdays stage and the huge uphill finish was pretty good to watch. 
I think that part of it is that it hasn't been on t.v. in the States very long (first year I've seen it) and all the heavy hitters have shot their load at the Tour so what's left for another grand tour? Plus the budget for putting this on the broadcast isn't really that much compared to the Tour and even the Giro.


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## foofighter (Dec 19, 2008)

NBC Sports has something on their site asking fans to sign up to request Universal Sports in HD from their cable provider. Whether they bring the Vuelta in HD is another story though. 

I have to admit i get better picture quality watching it on my phone than i do on a big screen.


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## quadrat (Aug 26, 2011)

it's certainly shaping up to be the most contested vuelta for a long time, after half the race, the top riders are within a handful of seconds. the red jersey changed almost every day. a couple of new stars, froome and kessiakoff, while the ex-champions sastre and menchov seem to be fading. still, there are more gt champions in the vuelta than in the tdf a month ago, let alone in the ASUCPC(?). The only one i miss is Contador. Well, and Rujano.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Ruonpoint said:


> I've got to agree, the horrible picture quality and commentating don't make it that exciting to watch. I did catch the end of last Saturdays stage and the huge uphill finish was pretty good to watch.
> I think that part of it is that it hasn't been on t.v. in the States very long (first year I've seen it) and all the heavy hitters have shot their load at the Tour so what's left for another grand tour? Plus the budget for putting this on the broadcast isn't really that much compared to the Tour and even the Giro.


The riders who did The Tour are probably also focusing on Worlds, too. And with USAPCC drawing a few top-dogs as well.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

foofighter said:


> NBC Sports has something on their site asking fans to sign up to request Universal Sports in HD from their cable provider. Whether they bring the Vuelta in HD is another story though.
> 
> I have to admit i get better picture quality watching it on my phone than i do on a big screen.


Hard to say. Not sure why, I just have a gut feeling that the Vuelta cameras aren't HD at the moment.


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## PeteyPablo (Aug 31, 2011)

I've been enjoyiong the Vuelta coverage so far. Tough race, but enjoyable to watch!


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## baker921 (Jul 20, 2007)

Its not the race, and I sympathise lousy coverage quickly ruins good sport. Eurosport on a regular 40" LCD gives good pics with Sean Kelly commentary. Don't know about HD, Eurosport's HD channel seems to be blocked out all day with some endless tennis match in New York!


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

A Grand Tour should not have competition from a first-year, weeklong stage race- especially one outside of Europe. It's like a small Belgian kermesse upstaging Paris-Roubaix. Nothing against the Colorado race, because I like seeing that level of competition here, but the Vuelta deserves better. I think the Giro stood up against the ToC well, and has returned to be an event worth watching.

The Vuelta organizers need to hire Angelo Zomegnan.


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## Wile_E_Coyote (Jul 15, 2011)

I'm enjoying it. The racing is close and it's very much up in the air at the moment.


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## diarmuidc (Mar 29, 2011)

I'm finding it entertaining.... Naturally a TT is a mostly un-watcheable unless the whole race comes down to it.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Alaska Mike said:


> A Grand Tour should not have competition from a first-year, weeklong stage race- especially one outside of Europe. It's like a small Belgian kermesse upstaging Paris-Roubaix. Nothing against the Colorado race, because I like seeing that level of competition here, but the Vuelta deserves better. I think the Giro stood up against the ToC well, and has returned to be an event worth watching.
> 
> The Vuelta organizers need to hire Angelo Zomegnan.


Were the riders required to race in the USAPCC???

Or did the riders choose to ride there?


Why does the Vuelta deserve better?


I thought riders chose races based on their goals for the season.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

cda 455 said:


> Were the riders required to race in the USAPCC???
> 
> Or did the riders choose to ride there?
> 
> ...


the teams have sports directors for a reason......


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

cda 455 said:


> Were the riders required to race in the USAPCC???
> 
> Or did the riders choose to ride there?
> 
> ...


I don't see a lot of teams opting out of the TDF (or bringing less than their best and brightest). The Vuelta has been relagated to a second string race, with less prestige than a lot of shorter/smaller races. There are only 3 Grand Tours, and they should be organized in such a way that demands respect. The TDF has pretty much always had this, and Zomegnan returned the Giro to a position of honor. If you can bundle the Giro/Vuelta double as something of great value (instead of something to do when you aren't invited to the TDF), you might see some serious contenders vying for the title(s). That takes organization and marketing, something the Vuelta has seriously lacked.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Alaska Mike said:


> I don't see a lot of teams opting out of the TDF (or bringing less than their best and brightest). The Vuelta has been relagated to a second string race, with less prestige than a lot of shorter/smaller races. There are only 3 Grand Tours, and they should be organized in such a way that demands respect. The TDF has pretty much always had this, and Zomegnan returned the Giro to a position of honor. If you can bundle the Giro/Vuelta double as something of great value (instead of something to do when you aren't invited to the TDF), you might see some serious contenders vying for the title(s). That takes organization and marketing, something the Vuelta has seriously lacked.


Good points, there.

From what I've read, it appears the biggest complaint/explanation from members here is that Vuelta comes too soon after the TDF.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

den bakker said:


> the teams have sports directors for a reason......


Yeah, that's true.


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## quadrat (Aug 26, 2011)

cda 455 said:


> Good points, there.
> 
> From what I've read, it appears the biggest complaint/explanation from members here is that Vuelta comes too soon after the TDF.


Long ago it used to occupy the same time slot as the Giro in may, quite pointless. I don't see any other month for the vuelta, later in the year it would coincide with the wch, and in april you still have snow in the mountains. August/September is ok, in particular for the riders who like it hot and dry.

Today's stage was pretty unwatchable, picture breakups half the time.


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## BirdLikeClimber (Aug 20, 2011)

Vuelta is far better this year, maybe cos im british and wiggins is in red!


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I'm amazed with how close a lot of the top GC riders still are this deep into the race. 

I'd agree that yesterday's stage was hard to watch, but not a horrible stage.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

Alaska Mike said:


> A Grand Tour should not have competition from a first-year, weeklong stage race- especially one outside of Europe. It's like a small Belgian kermesse upstaging Paris-Roubaix. Nothing against the Colorado race, because I like seeing that level of competition here, but the Vuelta deserves better. I think the Giro stood up against the ToC well, and has returned to be an event worth watching.
> 
> The Vuelta organizers need to hire Angelo Zomegnan.


I'm willing to entertain some of the arguments that you are proposing here. However, considering them all, I don't understand why the _location_ of the race (in the united states) is one of the issues that you have. I get it that you see an unfairness in a brand new week-long race taking the attention away from a GT but I don't know why it is somehow more offensive because the race is American.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

thechriswebb said:


> I'm willing to entertain some of the arguments that you are proposing here. However, considering them all, I don't understand why the _location_ of the race (in the united states) is one of the issues that you have. I get it that you see an unfairness in a brand new week-long race taking the attention away from a GT but I don't know why it is somehow more offensive because the race is American.


it's not taking attention away, none of the riders would have done the vuelta anyway.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

BirdLikeClimber said:


> Vuelta is far better this year, maybe cos im british and wiggins is in red!


I'm probably wrong, but it looked like Wiggins snubbed Froome as they crossed the finish line. Froome's reaction is what made me think is was a snub.


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## BlueGrassBlazer (Aug 4, 2009)

Marc said:


> I laffered during coverage this morning...going on and on about Cav's leadout train and it was nowhere to be seen at the end. Not unsurprising given the contour of the finish...but GoGo and his sidekick just don't seem to have it together. "And the winner is the rider from Sky!!!"...and it takes them 2 minutes to get the riders' name.


Don't know if you guys followed the Tour of Utah at all but the commentator I heard must have been doing his first broadcast. I give him kudos for enthusiasm but....it was pretty bad.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

cda 455 said:


> I'm probably wrong, but it looked like Wiggins snubbed Froome as they crossed the finish line. Froome's reaction is what made me think is was a snub.


I didn't notice this, but resolution wasn't the greatest.


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## 88 rex (Mar 18, 2008)

WOW! Interesting turn of events.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

spade2you said:


> I'm amazed with how close a lot of the top GC riders still are this deep into the race.
> 
> I'd agree that yesterday's stage was hard to watch, but not a horrible stage.


Today's stage on the Angliru' is pretty awesome so far ( 7 kms to go... I'm behind).
Still "hard to watch", but only literally, due to the everpresent horrible resolution.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

RRRoubaix said:


> Today's stage on the Angliru' is pretty awesome so far ( 7 kms to go... I'm behind).
> Still "hard to watch", but only literally, due to the everpresent horrible resolution.


and the fact that they had no coverage for anyone other than Cobo. I guess the tv motorbike went down, but that's some crummy tv planning for the most decisive moments of the entire race. TV producers (including US ones for the US challenge) need an injection of new technology into their coverage.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

RRRoubaix said:


> Today's stage on the Angliru' is pretty awesome so far ( 7 kms to go... I'm behind).
> Still "hard to watch", but only literally, due to the everpresent horrible resolution.


It's incredible to see Froome standing on his pedals like he was doing a trackstand, while trying to ascend the 23% grade! Really mashing down in slo-mo.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

stevesbike said:


> and the fact that they had no coverage for anyone other than Cobo. I guess the tv motorbike went down... .


Is that what happened? I saw the footage and then the picture was off the riders and onto the ground... and then the feed was gone and to another motorbike.
My first thought was "did that moto just crash??"


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

stevesbike said:


> and the fact that they had no coverage for anyone other than Cobo. I guess the tv motorbike went down, but that's some crummy tv planning for the most decisive moments of the entire race. TV producers (including US ones for the US challenge) need an injection of new technology into their coverage.





RRRoubaix said:


> Is that what happened? I saw the footage and then the picture was off the riders and onto the ground... and then the feed was gone and to another motorbike.
> My first thought was "did that moto just crash??"


I just finished watching the last 10km (48min) and it had all three moto cams and the aerial cam going/working. 

Anglirú Climb/Last 10 Km of Stage 15 (vuelta-a-espana-2011)


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

cda 455 said:


> I just finished watching the last 10km (48min) and it had all three moto cams and the aerial cam going/working.
> 
> Anglirú Climb/Last 10 Km of Stage 15 (vuelta-a-espana-2011)


at around 32:10 the camera bike following the Wiggins group goes down and that's the last we see of that group. The rest is Cobo until the finish line camera.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

cda 455 said:


> It's incredible to see Froome standing on his pedals like he was doing a trackstand, while trying to ascend the 23% grade! Really mashing down in slo-mo.


Gotta love those 20% grades!!! Even with my low gear ratios and light weight, still standing and mashing slowly.


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## MikeBiker (Mar 9, 2003)

spade2you said:


> Gotta love those 20% grades!!! Even with my low gear ratios and light weight, still standing and mashing slowly.


I'd have to ride the chairlift up.


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## letitsnow (Jul 9, 2011)

Does anybody know what gearing the pros use on that climb?


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

letitsnow said:


> Does anybody know what gearing the pros use on that climb?


Some were using 38/32, some using 36/28, some 34/27. Those were some of the ratios I heard talked about during the broadcast.


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## letitsnow (Jul 9, 2011)

robdamanii said:


> Some were using 38/32, some using 36/28, some 34/27. Those were some of the ratios I heard talked about during the broadcast.


OK, thanks.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

robdamanii said:


> Some were using 38/32, some using 36/28, some 34/27. Those were some of the ratios I heard talked about during the broadcast.


Wow!

MTB chainrings!


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

cda 455 said:


> Wow!
> 
> MTB chainrings!


34t chainrings are found on compact cranksets.

32t cassettes are found in the Apex line.

There's nothing "mountain bike" about the gearing.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

robdamanii said:


> 34t chainrings are found on compact cranksets.
> 
> 32t cassettes are found in the Apex line.
> 
> There's nothing "mountain bike" about the gearing.


You got my point, Francis  .


Although I'm not climbing steep grades for miles like there were; My rigid-fork 69'er _*MTB*_ has a 42-_*32*_-22 triple chainring.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

robdamanii said:


> 34t chainrings are found on compact cranksets.
> 
> 32t cassettes are found in the Apex line.
> 
> There's nothing "mountain bike" about the gearing.


Apex has been out for a year...so two years ago it would have been okay to say "mountain bike gearing"?...............Francis.


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## pedalruns (Dec 18, 2002)

That was quite the stage... and for pro's to be using that kind of gearing.... wow. I wonder what the gearing was for Cobo compared to Wiggins and Froome? It seemed like Cobo was spinning way more than anyone else, he only stood a few times.

And way to go Froome!! I hope Wiggins can do some work for him.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

The incline icon was pretty neat, they should have that in the Tour.
I really was cheering for Wiggo, but if Froome won that'd be good too.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> _*The incline icon was pretty neat*_, they should have that in the Tour.
> I really was cheering for Wiggo, but if Froome won that'd be good too.


The two things that has stuck out so far that I like about La Vuelta is the incline icon and the stop watch icon as breakaway/leader/chase/peloton cross km markers. 

Having the stop watch icon ticking away and the incline icon going up and down adds depth rather than just posting what the intervals or grades are.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Codo*



pedalruns said:


> That was quite the stage... and for pro's to be using that kind of gearing.... wow. I wonder what the gearing was for Cobo compared to Wiggins and Froome? It seemed like Cobo was spinning way more than anyone else, he only stood a few times.
> 
> And way to go Froome!! I hope Wiggins can do some work for him.


had a big ole pie plate rear cassette. Probably a 32 tooth with a 36 front


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

cda 455 said:


> You got my point, Francis  .
> 
> 
> Although I'm not climbing steep grades for miles like there were; My rigid-fork 69'er _*MTB*_ has a 42-_*32*_-22 triple chainring.


And what's your point? I never said they were using a 32T chainring. Learn how to read ratios.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

robdamanii said:


> 34t chainrings are found on compact cranksets.
> 
> 32t cassettes are found in the Apex line.
> 
> There's nothing "mountain bike" about the gearing.


Yeah, MTB's don't have 32T in their cassettes. 

Only on road bikes; right?



robdamanii said:


> And what's your point? I never said they were using a 32T chainring. Learn how to read ratios.


You're right.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

In the last two days, the Vuelta finally became exciting. Cobo is a true working class hero. 

And apart from the astounding difference in picture quality, I prefer the Schlanger-Gogulski-UniSports coverage of the Vuelta to Phil and Paul doing that Colorado race on Versus. The Colorado Race came off as dull and minor league. It seemed as though Cadel and the Schlecks showed up simply to collect a paycheck. They just didn't give a damn. Phil and Paul's commentary was tired and patronizing. As usual, the Versus coverage was padded to the gills with slick, empty featurettes and commercial plugs. Picture break-up was a continual problem. They couldn't even keep the transmission going on the streets of Denver.

As it was with the Giro, UniSports coverage of the Vuelta sticks strictly to what matters -- the race. Steve and GoGo aren't as skillful as P&P at pointing out what riders are in the picture at any one time, but the guys are generally articulate and free from cliche. It must be mentioned, too, that perhaps they can't see past the awful video transmission any better than we can. It's too bad that UniSports doesn't actually bring a crew to the venue, but I find Steve and GoGo's cramped control room HQ kind of fun. It's the kind of place Wayne and Garth of Wayne's World would have if _they_ were doing the Vuelta (or Curling).


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## cq20 (Mar 24, 2007)

Nibali's quote in Cyclingnews is interesting


> Nibali admitted that he was surprised by Cobo’s display on the Angliru, which leaves him in the overall lead with just six stages to go. “Yes, he hasn’t ridden like that since the Tour stage at Hautacam in 2008,” Nibali said. On that occasion, Cobo finished in second place, just behind Saunier Duval teammate Leonardo Piepoli, who subsequently tested positive for CERA.


Make of that what you will.

As for gearing, it's no great surprise that 36 and 34 chainrings were in use, given the gradients. A few (3?) years ago, some were using triples on one stage of the Giro.


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## troutmd (Sep 7, 2007)

Mapei said:


> In the last two days, the Vuelta finally became exciting. Cobo is a true working class hero.
> 
> And apart from the astounding difference in picture quality, I prefer the Schlanger-Gogulski-UniSports coverage of the Vuelta to Phil and Paul doing that Colorado race on Versus. The Colorado Race came off as dull and minor league. It seemed as though Cadel and the Schlecks showed up simply to collect a paycheck. They just didn't give a damn. Phil and Paul's commentary was tired and patronizing. As usual, the Versus coverage was padded to the gills with slick, empty featurettes and commercial plugs. Picture break-up was a continual problem. They couldn't even keep the transmission going on the streets of Denver.
> 
> As it was with the Giro, UniSports coverage of the Vuelta sticks strictly to what matters -- the race. Steve and GoGo aren't as skillful as P&P at pointing out what riders are in the picture at any one time, but the guys are generally articulate and free from cliche. It must be mentioned, too, that perhaps they can't see past the awful video transmission any better than we can. It's too bad that UniSports doesn't actually bring a crew to the venue, but I find Steve and GoGo's cramped control room HQ kind of fun. It's the kind of place Wayne and Garth of Wayne's World would have if _they_ were doing the Vuelta (or Curling).


Although I must say I utterly and completely enjoy Phil and Paul's TDF work, I found their Colorado commentary too much a commercial for the legitimacy of the race then the race itself.


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## kiroskka (Mar 9, 2008)

pedalruns said:


> That was quite the stage... and for pro's to be using that kind of gearing.... wow. I wonder what the gearing was for Cobo compared to Wiggins and Froome? It seemed like Cobo was spinning way more than anyone else, he only stood a few times.
> 
> And way to go Froome!! I hope Wiggins can do some work for him.



Wiggins and Froome were both using 38x32 gearing. They were also using asymmetrical front chainrings. Cobos gearing was 34x32


It's as expected when riders are trying to keep their front wheel from coming off the ground and there are vehicles rolling backwards towards them.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

cq20 said:


> Nibali's quote in Cyclingnews is interesting
> 
> Make of that what you will.
> 
> As for gearing, it's no great surprise that 36 and 34 chainrings were in use, given the gradients. A few (3?) years ago, some were using triples on one stage of the Giro.


Kinda shitty. I like Cobo, he's always shown promise since he was young, just never motivated himself enough. If you read the story about him on the Velo News website he talks about quiting earlier this year. Appears to me the guy just doesn't have very much invested in the sport so it seems unlikley he would cheat


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Today was the sprint that wasn't. The Vuelta is weird.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

OnTheRivet said:


> Kinda shitty. I like Cobo, he's always shown promise since he was young, just never motivated himself enough. If you read the story about him on the Velo News website he talks about quiting earlier this year. Appears to me the guy just doesn't have very much invested in the sport so it seems unlikley he would cheat


considering he had his best season with Gianetti and now is back with him, that's probably true


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## lckyby (Aug 27, 2011)

Weird roundabouts


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

OnTheRivet said:


> Kinda shitty. I like Cobo, he's always shown promise since he was young, just never motivated himself enough. If you read the story about him on the Velo News website he talks about quiting earlier this year. Appears to me the guy just doesn't have very much invested in the sport so it seems unlikley he would cheat


I'll say one word about Cobo: Mosquera.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Who's the idiot that put a traffic circle in the middle of the finishing straight?

The final segments of a lot of the stages are stupidly dangerous with their 180 curves and now this...:mad2:


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Who's the idiot that put a traffic circle in the middle of the finishing straight?
> 
> The final segments of a lot of the stages are stupidly dangerous with their 180 curves and now this...:mad2:


That was bad. Been there done that. Sucks when things aren't well marked.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Fignon's Barber said:


> I'll say one word about Cobo: Mosquera.


I would agree if he'd done this to Contador and the Schlecks but face it, this is a second tier field at the Vuelta. Come on, Wiggins, Froome, Mollema, Pols? Heck, even Nibali got schooled by Basso when they went head to head. I'm Betting Cobo's VAM on the climb was nothing special...at least when compared to Contadors 1900 (6.4wkg) a few years ago.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

OnTheRivet said:


> I would agree if he'd done this to Contador and the Schlecks but face it, this is a second tier field at the Vuelta. Come on, Wiggins, Froome, Mollema, Pols? Heck, even Nibali got schooled by Basso when they went head to head. I'm Betting Cobo's VAM on the climb was nothing special...at least when compared to Contadors 1900 (6.4wkg) a few years ago.


Not sure what that proves. 
you could dope me up from now to eternity and I would probably never be at 6w/kg.


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## Johnpembo73 (Jul 28, 2011)

Just watched the highlights of a mountain stage some parts of the last climb were 22-25% wow. Is there anyone who knows what gearing these guys use for such mountain stages and still keep pedalling at 12-14kmh. They are immense.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Johnpembo73 said:


> Just watched the highlights of a mountain stage some parts of the last climb were 22-25% wow. Is there anyone who knows what gearing these guys use for such mountain stages and still keep pedalling at 12-14kmh. They are immense.


Vuelta tech: Gear ratios critical up the Angliru


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

I have flipped over backwards on that sort of climb.


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## Wile_E_Coyote (Jul 15, 2011)

Great stuff goin on right now. Lovin the Vuelta!


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## quadrat (Aug 26, 2011)

OnTheRivet said:


> I would agree if he'd done this to Contador and the Schlecks but face it, this is a second tier field at the Vuelta. Come on, Wiggins, Froome, Mollema, Pols? Heck, even Nibali got schooled by Basso when they went head to head. I'm Betting Cobo's VAM on the climb was nothing special...at least when compared to Contadors 1900 (6.4wkg) a few years ago.


I also miss Contador, but no elite rider has done all three Grand Tours in one year for a generation. The Schlecks participated in last year's Vuelta, Andy retired early, and Franck finished also-ran. Evans had a couple of good results a few years back. I don't think the Schlecks nor Evans enjoy the extremely steep mountain-top finishes the Vuelta is infamous for, which you don't have in the Giro nor TdF. 
Froome and Cobo are certainly first tier after today's stage.


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## cq20 (Mar 24, 2007)

Well that was real racing today. None of this "After you. No, no, after you" stuff that Contador and Schleck displayed in the 2010 TdF stage finish.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

I don't know from where you pull this first tier, second tier nonsense.

You have to have cojones to ride the Vuelta, and these riders are showing how it is done.


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## mtrider05 (Aug 8, 2009)

Incredible today, edge of my seat yelling kind of riding.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

mtrider05 said:


> Incredible today, edge of my seat yelling kind of riding.


Same here. I won't spoil it for those who haven't yet watched it, but perhaps THE stage of the year in my book.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

spade2you said:


> Same here. I won't spoil it for those who haven't yet watched it, but perhaps THE stage of the year in my book.


+ eleventy


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## troutmd (Sep 7, 2007)

spade2you said:


> Same here. I won't spoil it for those who haven't yet watched it, but perhaps THE stage of the year in my book.


If you've ever race your buddy up the driveway with you rego's involved, somewhere deep in your soul you'll identify with the two guys up front on the last Km. 

WOW!


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Fignon's Barber said:


> I'll say one word about Cobo: Mosquera.





OnTheRivet said:


> I would agree if he'd done this to Contador and the Schlecks but face it, this is a second tier field at the Vuelta. Come on, Wiggins, Froome, Mollema, Pols? Heck, even Nibali got schooled by Basso when they went head to head. I'm Betting Cobo's VAM on the climb was nothing special...at least when compared to Contadors 1900 (6.4wkg) a few years ago.


O.K.; I give up.

I tried Googling it and all I got was a Spanish/Latin family name.


So, what are you guys referring to  ?


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## mtrider05 (Aug 8, 2009)

cda 455 said:


> O.K.; I give up.
> 
> I tried Googling it and all I got was a Spanish/Latin family name.
> 
> ...


Saying anything else would get this thread booted to the doping forum.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

mtrider05 said:


> Incredible today, edge of my seat yelling kind of riding.





spade2you said:


> Same here. I won't spoil it for those who haven't yet watched it, but perhaps THE stage of the year in my book.





AJL said:


> + eleventy





troutmd said:


> If you've ever race your buddy up the driveway with you rego's involved, somewhere deep in your soul you'll identify with the two guys up front on the last Km.
> 
> WOW!


Totally agree.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

mtrider05 said:


> Saying anything else would get this thread booted to the doping forum.


Oh; O.K.


I got the aura from the post that responded.

Not to mention queries in the media regarding said subject.


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## pedalruns (Dec 18, 2002)

spade2you said:


> Same here. I won't spoil it for those who haven't yet watched it, but perhaps THE stage of the year in my book.


WOW... I agree. One of the best stages ever, pretty much why I watch racing!


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

pedalruns said:


> WOW... I agree. One of the best stages ever, pretty much why I watch racing!


Too bad WCP never sells the Vuelta, I'm enjoying this one. This moment and the cheer of the French crowd as Voekler started the TdF ITT are my favorite moments of the year.


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## crankee (Aug 2, 2003)

*Fantastic finish!*



pedalruns said:


> WOW... I agree. One of the best stages ever, pretty much why I watch racing!


 Couldn't agree more ... as a fan I love the Vuelta's crazy STEEP mtn top finishes.


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

Most exciting stage since the Giro of '09 battle between Menchov and Di Luca.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

New poll;
Should the management at Universal Sports be
*A*) skewered on a spit
*B*) forced to ride a bike... across the Sahara
*C*) fed to rabid wombats

Thanks guys for dropping the audio portion of your program today for the final 7 klicks.
:mad2::mad2::mad2:
Kudos.
You've outdone even _your_ pathetic standards.
Wooo.


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## quadrat (Aug 26, 2011)

Couple of things are better in the Vuelta than in Giro and TdF. The time bonuses for stage wins and intermediate sprints, and if riders are separated by a second or more on arrival, they don't get the same time. Constant information about gradient and speed. Maybe heart rate in % of max like it's done in some winter sports, and output in watt of some riders could be added. Froome is a revelation. The man suffers from a schistosoma infection, male menstruation and stuff is not funny, after all. An attack rider who can get out of the saddle for quite some time, might challenge Contador next year.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I don't know about challenging Contador, immediately/consistently, but he's a revelation and young enough to do more in the future. I don't know the plan, but I'm guessing he'll be leading the next GT. Good for him and Sky putting 2 men on the podium.

Cobo....whoda thunk it. Probably won't do this again, but might have a shot at a top 10 in another GT or two before he retires.

I'm not going to say it was better than the Tour. I've enjoyed both immensely. It's not hard to be a little more enjoyable than the Giro this year. 

I think the results of this one have made the bookies rich! Most of my favorites weren't even remotely a factor.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

spade2you said:


> [I don't know about challenging Contador, immediately/consistently, but he's a revelation and young enough to do more in the future. I don't know the plan, but I'm guessing he'll be leading the next GT. Good for him and Sky putting 2 men on the podium.


IF they were smart, maybe. But I think they have too much "invested" in Wiggo. I imagine he'll still be #1. I hope I'm wrong though.



spade2you said:


> Cobo....whoda thunk it. Probably won't do this again, but might have a shot at a top 10 in another GT or two before he retires.


Perfectly stated! I confess, his performance makes me a bit... suspicious (Mosquera anyone?), but for now, I'll suspend my disbelief and enjoy.



spade2you said:


> I'm not going to say it was better than the Tour. I've enjoyed both immensely. It's not hard to be a little more enjoyable than the Giro this year.


Yeahhhhh... I couldn't "suspend my disbelief" during the Giro. Hardest one ever and "that guy" made it look like a recovery ride. 


spade2you said:


> I think the results of this one have made the bookies rich! Most of my favorites weren't even remotely a factor.


Ha ha ha- too right! I'm sure nobody had money on Cobo!


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I think Froome is a lot stronger than Cobo, but Cobo made all the right moves and was fortunate to have had Sky do a lot of the work. A few stages ago, Menchov scored 3rd on a stage. No biggie, but this prevented Froome from getting 3rd and a time bonus. Had Froome not lost time working for Wiggo, this Vuelta could have easily been his. I wish both riders the best, but I have a gut feeling this is on the side of being a fluke for both of them. 

If I were a betting man, I'd put more $ on this being a fluke than doping, but I could be wrong. At this point, Mosquera got 2nd last year. Heck, Valverde was allowed to race and win it before starting his suspension. Had he not been there and that untimely flat tire, Cadel should have easily won '09. 

I think one thing working in my gut feeling's favor is that Cobo is a little on the old side. Sure, that may make it a little more necessary to have a boost, but at his age, he wouldn't be likely to race after a suspension this late in the game.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

The more I watched, the more I stick by my statement that the Vuelta is not getting the respect it deserves. That is some amazing country with rabid fans lining the roads, and the coverage is on par with your local TV station's footage of a high school football game. The teams just aren't on the same level of what they are at the Giro or Tour, and overall the organization is just shoddy (ie sprint finish traffic circles).

The riders that are there have been putting on a good show, though. The return to the Basque country was long overdue, and hopefully will be an indication of good things to come. They have all of the pieces there to lift the status of the race. They just need the right management. I'm happy to see *any *cycling on TV, but I just think it's a shame to see a great race relegated like this.

I think Sky should look at trying for a Giro/Vuelta double with Wiggins, instead of chasing the Tour GC. If Cav signs with Sky, give him the team for the Tour and go for the green jersey, which is a better bet than anyone they have for GC. That would give you a strong brand presence at all 3 grand tours, which would make most sponsors wet their pants.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Sagan on the Angliru:


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

spade2you said:


> I think Froome is a lot stronger than Cobo, but Cobo made all the right moves and was fortunate to have had Sky do a lot of the work. A few stages ago, Menchov scored 3rd on a stage. No biggie, but this prevented Froome from getting 3rd and a time bonus. Had Froome not lost time working for Wiggo, this Vuelta could have easily been his. I wish both riders the best, but I have a gut feeling this is on the side of being a fluke for both of them.
> 
> If I were a betting man, I'd put more $ on this being a fluke than doping, but I could be wrong. At this point, Mosquera got 2nd last year. Heck, Valverde was allowed to race and win it before starting his suspension. Had he not been there and that untimely flat tire, Cadel should have easily won '09.
> 
> I think one thing working in my gut feeling's favor is that Cobo is a little on the old side. Sure, that may make it a little more necessary to have a boost, but at his age, he wouldn't be likely to race after a suspension this late in the game.


Old? Isn't Cobo only 30?


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## culdeus (May 5, 2005)

Would someone mind letting me know the top 5 stages from this year's Vuelta? I need to go download them for viewing. Missed them completely the first run thru. Thanks so much.


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## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

culdeus said:


> Would someone mind letting me know the top 5 stages from this year's Vuelta? I need to go download them for viewing. Missed them completely the first run thru. Thanks so much.


You could watch the final kilometers of each stage instead. http://forums.roadbikereview.com/pr...l-kilometers-all-stages-hopefully-259170.html

That said, I'm sure some people will post their opinions so you can find what you're looking for. I doubt many would argue against Angrilu, Stage 15, and Peña Cabarga, Stage 17, being the two best of the Vuelta this year.


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## pedalruns (Dec 18, 2002)

nate said:


> You could watch the final kilometers of each stage instead. http://forums.roadbikereview.com/pr...l-kilometers-all-stages-hopefully-259170.html
> 
> That said, I'm sure some people will post their opinions so you can find what you're looking for. I doubt many would argue against Angrilu, Stage 15, and Peña Cabarga, Stage 17, being the two best of the Vuelta this year.


I agree... the Angrilu stage and Stage 17 are the best two.


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