# How much saddle to bar drop is everyone riding?



## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

Just curious. I read a post on another thread where the poster said he was older and not as flexible as a young racer so he used a lot less drop between saddle and bars. 

What seems to be the range? (I know, "whatever you are comfortable with.." but I AM a curious fellow) I'm about 6'1", a relativly old masters racer and I ride a Look frame mostly. I've ended up with 4 1/2" of difference between the top of the bars and the 'crotch' of the saddle as my own comfort setting for my ~200-mile average weeks (during the season). I've ridden with my bars lower by as much as an inch, but it sometimes stresses my lower back after longer rides. By trial and error ~4.5" seems to be my tolerated setting...

Also, how far "out there" do people set up their bars? I have mine set up on a 100mm 17deg.(?) (parallel to the earth) stem and they measure from the nose of the saddle to the split of the stem clamp, 21 3/4" or ~55. Is that weird?

Roads are snowy here today, that is why the idle curiousity..

Don Hanson

others?


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## Doggity (Mar 10, 2006)

You're unusually flexible-probably because you're 'a relatively old masters racer'. I've got my bars about 1cm below the saddle, and I'm feeling like it ain't high enough, though others more knowledgeable than myself have said that it sounds like I need a shorter TT, which sounds correct to me.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

First, we have to bear in mind that folks are different sizes, so there's some proportionality to contend with. That said, I'm the same size as you and remember Armstrong on the moon, so...

I spent much of the last year riding with a drop like yours. Found it very comfortable and useful on the hoods, and OK on the drops - but in the hooks, I'd start to thump my torso with my thighs. It closed me up enough that it wasn't as efficient as it could be. 

I rearranged things to have a 3"ish drop. Now I can properly and comfortably use all positions on my bars, and don't find it any slower on the hoods (I probably compensate with a bit more elbow bend and that's that.) I have a suspicion that many folks with 'extreme' drops (whatever that might mean) aren't taking proper advantage of all the positions their bars offer.

As for the 'reach' measurement, there's no way to tell if it's 'weird' or not - depends far too much on how your parts are assembled, whether you're 'leggy' or not, and so on. Also depends on the nose length of the saddle, and so on. If anything, I'd call it a tiny bit on the short side, which may explain part of the tolerance for the drop. Then again, I prefer a more stretched-out setup than most seem to recommend, so you can't go by me.


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## Juanmoretime (Nov 24, 2001)

Don,

I will be 50 very soon and am 6' and I ride with 9 centimeters of drop. I'm also very flexible.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Race bike has about as much drop as yours.

Training / commuting ride a bit less, like 3 inches.

5-10 cm is the "rule of thumb" most road fitters use for a relatively aggressive but still comfortable position. 4.5 inches is a "racer" amount of drop.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

6-8cm


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

About 5.5cm, but I run a longer TT length (36 and very flexible, but short legs and long torso).

It's set up so I'm still comfortable while in the drops, but on the edge of comfortable for extended periods when I'm in them. That way when I'm on the hoods I'm very comfortable, but I have access to all positions when I'm on the bike.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

I have about 9cm of drop on my race bike. I'm 6' with long legs, and pretty limber for a 46 year old. My setup is good for me for 8 or 9 hour rides. On some rides this summer involving a lot of technical descending I was starting to get tired in the upper body, so my bars are probably about as low as they can go. I may move them another 5mm down next year and see if I'm ok with that.. my thighs aren't hitting my upper body yet. I've been slowly moving the bars down over the last five years as I have regained fitness.


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## dougn (Jun 9, 2004)

i actually attached some extensions to my front axle....so i guess i like em low. i have to be careful so my knees don't hit my face but you get use to it. this gives me about 10 mph extra plus i can rest my chin on the top tube!


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## kmc (Oct 16, 2002)

9 cm for me, based on a fitting session by a well-known physicial therapist in the Seattle area this past Spring. I was a little nervous about the drop, but it feels great.

I am in the process of having a new frame built and the builder was a little concerned about that drop...I will wait and see what he comes up with.

I am 6'1" with a 35.5" inseam...longish legs.


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## JaeP (Mar 12, 2002)

*Freak of nature?*

I'm 6'2" with a 36" inseam (LeMond method) with long arms (I think). I only say this because my saddle to handlebar drop is between 12 to 14cm on all my bikes. Is that natural? I've done centuries with only a mild back ache.


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

6' 0.5". My inseam runs pretty much the full length of my leg. Drop is 8cm....or for those that can't handle a unit sytem based on powers of 10...er.....3.15".


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

Hmm, It seems as if I may be slightly on the low side with the drop I use. I do have a long torso and short legs, and I don't spend a lot of time on the drops..Looking at everyone else's set ups, I can see why with 12cm drop, seat to bars, I don't ride long stints down on the drops and why I've experimented with shallow drop bars and liked em some.

I tend to feel my best aero/power position is with my wrists flat on the top of the extension part of the bars and my palms down on the top of the brake hoods, fingers dangling over the levers, my thumbs under the shifter cables (Dura Ace). I also seem fairly efficient with my hands together right at the stem, especially at higher speeds when having my elbows tucked in seems to make a difference.

Interesting...I could easily come up a cm or two and gain some comfort. Probably let me spend more time on the drops, too. Hmm.

Don Hanson


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## mtbdcd (Jul 7, 2002)

I read somewhere that the drop should be 5-7cm. Mine is right at 7cm, i am 6' with long legs


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## Howzitbroke (Jun 1, 2005)

3ish CM. here. I am rather young at 35, fairly flexible, but I like riding in the drops and can for long stretches real comfortable like with this setup.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

I have a few questions.....

back at ya.

1.) How often do you ride in the drops?
2.) How Hogh are your shifters on the bars?

I have a few friends who like to make a big deal of the fact that they run 9+ cm of Bar drop.............but when I ride with them I notice that they never (or rarely) ride in the drops & their hoods are pointed at the sky....LOL on that bar drop thingy.

Me, I'm 6'1" and my bars are anythwere from 3 to 5 cm lower than my seat....but I ride in the drops about 50% of the time comfortably and my levers are even with the bottom of the drops. I'm also 51.

YMMV.

Len


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*10cm...*

Your reach sounds short for a 6'-1" rider. My saddle tip to center of bars is 52.5cm, or only 1 inch shorter and my drop is 10cm. I'm 5'-6" tall with a short torso (83cm inseam). I'm also an old guy at 53.

I ride in the "hooks" on long mountain descents and some on the flats, but spend a lot more time on the hoods. My EC-90 bars don't even have a straight section at the end long enough to use (what others have called drops). If I'm on a straight flat, I drape my palms over the top of the ergo lever knob with my forearms laying on the top of the bars - sort of a wide aero bar type position.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

alienator said:


> 6' 0.5". My inseam runs pretty much the full length of my leg. Drop is 8cm....or for those that can't handle a unit sytem based on powers of 10...er.....3.15".



Powers of Ten. Charles and Ray Eames, pinkos trying to press the metric system upon the Uh-maerican peoples.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

*How do I look?*

height: 58.3"/173.4cm - long torso
inseam: 31.7"/80.5cm
BB-saddle: 28"/71.5
saddle tip to bars on center: 22.4"/57cm
drop: 3.18"/8cm


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## AlexCad5 (Jan 2, 2005)

C40, I expected you to say that the amount of drop is dictated by the reach, and the relative length of the tt and stem. A longer TT and stem combo requires a smaller drop, and conversely a shorter reach will dictate a deeper drop. (seat set back is also part of the equation.)

Too much reach, either because the bars are too far forward or too low, will cause hand numbness. Too much reach is the reason flexibility is needed, not because of your bar height. Think of it this way: a low bar is more like having your hands by your sides than touching your toes.

Neck and upper shoulder issues, I have found, is the relationship of saddle to bar height however. Here head tube height, fork length, number of spacers and stem angle play a role. Too little rise, you get pain because you are straining your neck to see up the road, especially on false flats and climbs, and in the drops on decents. Too high you push too much weight over the rear of the bike, lightening the front of the bike and loosing some element of control, most noticeable on steep climbs (front wheel coming off the ground) and on technical descents (feels unsure in turns.)

So there is no proper drop. Only a proper drop specific to each frame with each particular rider


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## laffeaux (Dec 12, 2001)

I'm just short of 6'1" with about 3" of drop, and I'm comfortable. I'm 40 years old, and ride quite a bit - race mountain bike, but not road bikes.

I don't spend a huge amount of time in the drops, but I can ride there comfortably whenever I need/want to - normally ionly during strong headwinds or downhills.


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## BikeWNC (Sep 9, 2004)

This thread is all very interesting and I would like to relate my recent expereience in this matter. I had been using 9cm of drop, I'm almost 6'3"and very flexable. I can just about put my palms on the floor. I'm 49yo. However, while I had little problem riding at that drop I did get some saddle numbness that was a concern. 

I went to see Andy Pruitt back in August for a bike fit and he raised my bar to 4.5cm drop. Why? After examination it was determined that all my flexibilty comes from my hamstrings and T-spine. My lumbar has auto-fused at S1-L5, I have no disc at L5-L4 and my SI joints are also fused. So in reaching for a lower bar I was pulling my pelvis too far forward onto soft tissue and causing the compression. My lower back could not bend to keep my butt seated properly on the saddle. 

It took a couple of months to adjust to the new position but I am more comfortable and put out as much power (or possible a little more) then before. I can still get as aero as needed and it is easier to do so thus I spend more time in that position. I guess you can say my bike position looks more like Landis than Hincapie. Both are pretty fast.

Each person has their own needs when it comes to bike fit. It is really hard to make any comparisons between riders.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*short legs, long torso...*



rocco said:


> height: 58.3"/173.4cm - long torso
> inseam: 31.7"/80.5cm
> BB-saddle: 28"/71.1
> saddle tip to bars on center: 22.4"/57cm
> drop: 2.4"/6cm


I'm wondering how you can get 4.5cm more reach than I have with such short legs. I use a 110mm stem, Even a 140mm would only add 3cm. You must have the saddle far back and/or a short nosed saddle.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

C-40 said:


> I'm wondering how you can get 4.5cm more reach than I have with such short legs. I use a 110mm stem, Even a 140mm would only add 3cm. You must have the saddle far back and/or a short nosed saddle.


I've wondered if a custom sized/fit frame would make enough of difference to be worth while. I figure that I'm about on the cusp but still not really there. Is there anything that stands out as wrong or do you have any recommendations?

Seat tube c-c: 53cm
Seat tube angle: 73
Top tube length: 54cm
Head tube length w/hs: 15.5cm
Head tube angle: 72
Stem length: 140mm - no spacers
BB-saddle position: 71.1cm
Saddle-handlebar tip to center: 57.1cm 
Saddle setback: 6.8cm
Seatpost type: 25mm setback
Saddle: Flite

Inseam: 80.5cm
Trunk: 65cm
Forearm: 35.5cm
Arm: 73cm
Thigh: 59cm
Lower leg: 50.2cm
Sternal notch: 143cm

The measurements follow the techniques/instructions on Competitive Cyclist and are based on the mean of three measurements taken for each.


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## Zwane (Jun 30, 2006)

JaeP said:


> I'm 6'2" with a 36" inseam (LeMond method) with long arms (I think). I only say this because my saddle to handlebar drop is between 12 to 14cm on all my bikes. Is that natural? I've done centuries with only a mild back ache.


6' here and 37" inseam, handlebar drop is 10cm on my commuter and 14cm (this is with 30mm of spacers!) on my race bike. I've done 5-6 hour rides on both. The race bike has a negative rise stem (parallel to the ground) so i'm considering going for a zero rise. So you sound perfectly normal to me


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*wrong??*

I don't think much of CC's fit calculator. The body measurements don't really define the position of the hip and knee joints, so I wouldn't put any faith in them. I believe in getting on a real bike and getiing a proper fitting.

I rarely call something wrong, but I do see a lot of saddle setback, which is OK if your femurs are real long and you need it to achieve KOP. 

The frame size is 2cm larger than I ride, even though your saddle is 2cm lower. It's certainly not an optimum vertical size. The 73 degree STA makes sense if you need the 6.8cm of setback. The 140mm stem certainly limits your choice of stem, but as long as you can get one you like, you're in business.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

C-40 said:


> I don't think much of CC's fit calculator. The body measurements don't really define the position of the hip and knee joints, so I wouldn't put any faith in them. I believe in getting on a real bike and getiing a proper fitting.
> 
> I rarely call something wrong, but I do see a lot of saddle setback, which is OK if your femurs are real long and you need it to achieve KOP.
> 
> The frame size is 2cm larger than I ride, even though your saddle is 2cm lower. It's certainly not an optimum vertical size. The 73 degree STA makes sense if you need the 6.8cm of setback. The 140mm stem certainly limits your choice of stem, but as long as you can get one you like, you're in business.



In general I only consider online fit calculators for a starting point though my setup tends to fall within the range that CC refers to as the "The Eddy Fit". 

Going by the Hinault book and the CC measuring instructions it seems that I do have long femurs and the 73 STA/6.8cm of setback feel just right for me. The 53 cm ST is too big to be optimal but fortunately the sloping TT helps to mitigate that problem. I suspect a frame with a 51cm ST, 56cm TT, 73 STA and 72 HTA would be best for me but obviously that would require a custom frame. ...Perhaps a custom Parlee or Spin frame is in my future.

I tend to rely on a combination of what I've read, my experience and trust in what seems to feel right. Getting on a real bike and getting a proper fitting with the help of somebody who knows what they're doing would be nice to optimize things though I haven't had much luck with the somebody who knows what they're doing part. I got burned that way a couple of times when I had less experience of my own.

I appreciate your feedback.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

At my age, (64 in a few more days), my seat & bars are nearly even. I'd guess there's maybe a 1 cm drop.


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## msohio (Feb 23, 2004)

*Mr. V is The Man*

Mr. V.......I am 65 and I'm where you are. About 1 cm drop and lovin' it. Easier on the body and let's me see all the sights. Are we less aero, sure. Does it matter, NOT.


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## StillRiding (Sep 16, 2006)

The saddle to bar relationship really depends on a lot of variables, including rider size, age, goals, and physical condition. 

A younger racer should position his bars such that when on the drops comfortably he's in an aerodynamic position with a flat back, but not so low that his knees strike his chest or elbows. For the average sized man, this drop is going to be in the range of 8-12 cm with a longish stem and a more stretched-out riding position.

A tourist or an older, less flexible rider may prefer a more upright position, and never even get on the drops. In this situation the amount of bar drop becomes a trade-off between how much weight you'd like to put on your hands and how much on your behind. Less drop means more weight on the saddle. Unless a rider has a definite physical problem, it is probably a mistake to assume a position that's too upright. I personally find that riding in a more upright position puts greater strain on my lower back and I ride my racing and my touring bikes with approximately the same drop of 8 to 9 cm. YMMV.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

54 yo / 6' tall / 33" inseam / long arms

11 cm drop


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## footballcat (Jul 8, 2004)

8" inches on both training and racing bike, i think i might have something wrong, but i have 8cm of seat post, and no spacers. 6'3"


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## Chase15.5 (Feb 17, 2005)

38 yrs old. 9.5 cm of drop on my main bike, and 6 cm on my fixie/commuter. Pretty flexible - comfortable in the drops or hoods.


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## ilan (Nov 27, 2006)

I'm 49 and have about 9.5 cm drop. I used to be flexible, but not more. As people point
out, with this kind of drop, I'm not in the drops very often, but I don't see the point,
since I'm pretty low on my brake hoods, which are set with tops horizontal. 

Maybe I'm wrong, but the really low positions are more usual for road racing, as opposed
to track or criterium racing. I think the low positions will be adopted by people who 
tend to ride off the front, whereas the peleton position will be higher for greater responsiveness. I definitely fall in the latter category.

On my old custom bike was so wrong for me, that I used to have to ride in the drops
with my forearms horizontal. Things improved slightly when I put a track stem with
about 25 degree angle. 

I find that professional riders have different conceptions of handlebar height. During the Indurain years, it seemed fashionable to have bars so high that climbing in the drops was usual. More recently, you see very very high brake hoods, e.g., 
https://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2002/jul02/tdf/tdfpreview/kirsipuu.jpg


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## vanjr (Sep 15, 2005)

Never raced before. 5'7" and ride a 54 cm trek 1500. Drop is about 0 cm. Poor flexibility.


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## rauparaha (Sep 26, 2005)

I'm 6'4" and I have 12cm drop on my road bike. The frame I'm on has a 58cm TT so it's pretty small for me and, even though I have a 14cm stem, I feel cramped if I bring the bars up at all. Maybe when I'm no longer a poor student I'll have the moolah to get a bigger frame that actually fits. Although I'm not at all uncomfortable with the drop that I have at the moment.


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

Zero. My handlebars are about even with the saddle height. I had terrible numbness in my hands until I figured out that excessive bar drop was the cause. Now I am comfortable and have no numbness.

My problem with large drops is not my back or poor flexibility per se, but neck issues. My neck does not bend easily like most people. Found out through some expensive visits to the chiropractor that riding with handlebars that were too low was causing me to bend my neck too much, putting undue pressure on the nerves that go to my hands -- causing the numbness problem. 

As Len mentioned, I would be willing to bet that most cyclists whose bikes are set up with large drops ride on the hoods or bar tops most or all of the time. I am very comfortable riding in the drops.


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