# Critique of Chinese Carbon Wheels?



## lust4bikes (Aug 1, 2010)

I've followed all these group buys and have read all the excitement about the purchasing process and who is reliable, the packing , the time for delivery and seen pictures showing off various good looking wheels but have not read any critiques or reviews about them! Are they all what they are cracked up to be? Has anyone ridden them and also ridden Heds, Reynolds or Zipp? how do they compare? Has anyone had any warranty issues? All the major companies have had warranty issues, but I haven't read about any with the Chinese? Is this a conspiracy of secretcy ? Will someone please break the silence!


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## kreyszig666 (Jan 6, 2010)

I've been on my 90mm clinchers from hongfu for about 500 miles now. No warranty provided. I built them up with novatec hubs and cx-rays. 
I've ridden them mostly on flat rides. The novatecs are smoother than my ultegra 6700 hubs, by far. I will never get cup and cone bearings again (novatecs have japanese sealed bearings). The rims give a really smooth ride, really damp out vibration (which I didn't expect). 
Delivery time, once shipped, was really quick, about 5 days to the UK. Same with my frame. I had a delay with my deep rims because of a run on 88mm rims, and ended up with the 90's (which I think are a better design).
Weight wise the rear is about the same as my powertap+open pro so it's only the front that's adding weight. Braking surface is fine, on swissstop yellows. A bit noisy (squeak really loud on hard braking) but no degredation of the surface. 
I've never ridden the more expensive brands so can't compare. I got these rims thinking I'd notice a difference in speed, and I can't say I can. I got some clip on aero bars and they make far more of a difference for far less expense. That said, the clip ons help me maintain a pace that the rims probably are helping a lot.
So, that's my positive experience. The only negatives I've ever heard of are one guy who had some problems on descent (rear braking surface delaminating) and he got a refund. This has happened with the big boys too. And some problems with supply. I think given the risk associated with these no-name manufacturers, if there were quality control issues, we would be hearing more about them. 
I've bought several items via china and if there has ever been a problem, they've been most keen to put it right. Usually without requiring me to send the offending item back. My problems have only ever been getting sent the wrong thing- I ordered a stem once and got a saddle instead, and had a headset missing when I bought a frame. 
I would not hesitate to recommend hongfu, or flyxii.com, the two chinese companies I've bought from. Also bdop cycling in taiwan I got my hubs from and had excellent service.
I recommend buying cx-rays from wheelbuilder.com, they were the only people I could find who would sell black spokes individually at a decent price.
To sum up, I think the chinese are doing us a massive favour by opening up the market. There is an element of risk as you have no warranty (necessarily), but I am confident from my own experience and the lack of negative reports that there are no quality control issues. At the end of the day, if the wheel fails, a warranty is not going to make it hurt less!


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## lust4bikes (Aug 1, 2010)

Thank you Kreyszig666. I wonder if the light weight carbon (more narrow profiled) wheels are noticeably faster? The rides I do in Northern California frequently average 100 feet per mile. The deep profile would be more of a liability for me.... Also the cx ray source and Novatech hub source is good to know. How do Novatech compare with Chosen?


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

I've been very happy with the tubular wheelset I had built on Chinese rims (38mm, 325 grams), Taiwanese hubs, and Sapim CX-Rays. I'm not a huge fan of the 12k weave, but they were very inexpensive. I have no other experience with other carbon wheelsets, so I can't say how they compare to the really high or even mid-level wheelsets out there. But they are certainly faster than the Mavic Ksyrium SLs I came off of, and more comfortable too. For more on my build, see:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=229709

I've seen Sapim CX-Ray bladed spokes on Ebay for $2-2.50/spoke, considerably less than just about any online retailer. I paid much more than that for mine ($3.80 or so) from my LBS, but I wanted my mechanic (also the owner of the store) to make a little more than his labor for the build as I was supplying the hubs and the rims.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

first off, you should keep in mind that the wattage savings is pretty modest - less than 10 watts at 30mph (more like 5 when compared to a well-designed non-carbon wheel). That's also assuming the deeper wheel has low spoke count, aero spokes (ovalized, not just bladed), and an aero shape. The fastest shape is not narrow, but toroidal, which none of the Chinese rims have. The main problem of any carbon clincher in my opinion is the brake track. The heat etc is a formidable engineering challenge - high heat can both delaminate the rim and also cause the tube to blow out the tire. I've seen both personally on expensive brand names and talked about them with engineers at brand name wheel/tire companies. One thing that the industry doesn't talk about is the tire/wheel interface - too loose a tire fit can result in the tire coming off due to temperature. Delamination will also cause a major blowout. The last thing you want is a tire coming off a rim at 40mph on a downhill. For these reasons, I wouldn't ride a name brand carbon clincher hard on a hilly route - and wouldn't bother with a chinese one whose engineering is questionable. If I were going deep, I"d get something like the hed jet 6, with an alloy brake track. It's also got the right shape and the wider c2 profile.


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

yes i would agree carbon clinchers are not for hills at all. there are no real problems with them until people start doing fast descents.

i have a 'chinese carbon' clincher wheelset that arrived at my house yesterday for someone else, they seem quite good out of the box - these are the ones with the low brake track, i would happily use these wheels... but not anywhere that requires long periods of hard braking.


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## Purt (Dec 23, 2010)

stevesbike said:


> first off, you should keep in mind that the wattage savings is pretty modest - less than 10 watts at 30mph (more like 5 when compared to a well-designed non-carbon wheel). That's also assuming the deeper wheel has low spoke count, aero spokes (ovalized, not just bladed), and an aero shape. The fastest shape is not narrow, but toroidal, which none of the Chinese rims have. The main problem of any carbon clincher in my opinion is the brake track. The heat etc is a formidable engineering challenge - high heat can both delaminate the rim and also cause the tube to blow out the tire. I've seen both personally on expensive brand names and talked about them with engineers at brand name wheel/tire companies. One thing that the industry doesn't talk about is the tire/wheel interface - too loose a tire fit can result in the tire coming off due to temperature. Delamination will also cause a major blowout. The last thing you want is a tire coming off a rim at 40mph on a downhill. For these reasons, I wouldn't ride a name brand carbon clincher hard on a hilly route - and wouldn't bother with a chinese one whose engineering is questionable. If I were going deep, I"d get something like the hed jet 6, with an alloy brake track. It's also got the right shape and the wider c2 profile.


So what you're saying is you've seen first hand, expensive rims delaminate and tubes blow out, but you haven't seen it ever happen to a cheap chinese copy yet you believe the chinese wheels are questionable? 

Have you ridden on the chinese wheels? Compared them to you're expensive questionable wheels yet?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

kreyszig666 said:


> I recommend buying cx-rays from wheelbuilder.com, they were the only people I could find who would sell black spokes individually at a decent price.


Less money is buddy Thor at ThorUSA.com - $2.50 for silver and $2.95 for black for individual spokes. 

http://www.thorusa.com/product10.htm


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## kreyszig666 (Jan 6, 2010)

Mike T. said:


> Less money is buddy Thor at ThorUSA.com - $2.50 for silver and $2.95 for black for individual spokes.
> 
> http://www.thorusa.com/product10.htm


yep - and thanks for putting me on to him. But he didn't have the lengths I needed in black.


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## dcl10 (Jul 2, 2010)

A riding buddy built up some wheels with Chinese rims, and they actually look to be of fairly good quality and he has not had any problems I'm aware of other than the braking is not as good as, say Eastons theratec, or Reynolds new stuff. However they are pretty heavy for carbon rims, around 450 grams for a 50mm tubular. That's about the same weight as Eastons new 90mm rim, and an Edge 1.45 tubular will run around 300 grams. So you're talking maybe an extra 300 grams vs you're high end name brand sets. Plus I think they cost him around $450 all together, and you can get Neuvation tubulars for around they same amount, and those come with a warranty. Not to mention I've seen Reynolds Assault/Attacks for only a few hundred more which can be a lot lighter.


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## YishunBike Stefano (Oct 11, 2010)

I want to add a point to this reflection, that is very interesting IMHO. 
It's difficult I know, and partly depends from their bad communication, but it's not correct to say that all chinese company are the same and so are the products (rims in this case)
Often rim construction, product testing (yes some firm do it), components and materials used are different and for these reasons some companies are working to have American, European and global certification. 
So talking about "chinese products" IMHO means only that price is lower than other companies. 
I confirm that sometime you can find "crap" bicycle products, but of course the ability of the "online" customer is to choose the best product for the best price. And forum, friends and news are the best info for them


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## dirkfh (Jun 13, 2007)

*Heat + other critique issue??*

First off, I cannot connect to the Chinese Carbon Wheels tread on my home DSL connection, so my oppologies if any of these questions are answered there. My T1 line at work gets me there, but not my home DSL. 

Stevesbikes, thanks for bringing up the heat issue. The vast majority of my rides are in very hilly area's. I was just about to make a purchase when I read your comments. Not doubting you, but this being the internet, can others back these heat claims, problems, with first hand observations?

Would tubeless tires eliminate the possibilty of the tire blowing off because they fit much tighter, and don't use a tube?

How do the "about x grams" claims hold up ? For the 50mm set I was thinking about, I was told about 1545g. Who has accually put their set on a scale? What are the variances between the same size sets? 

Thanks

DFH


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## dirkfh (Jun 13, 2007)

*Question answered by ZIPP*

My first and foremost question was answered by ZIPP in their latest add sent to me for their 404 clincher today:

Years of testing led to the development of their heat-resistant resin system. As you bomb down long, high-speed descents with hard, heavy braking and rim temperatures reaching 500° F, *there's no risk of a burst sidewall with Zipp full carbon clinchers*.

Based upon this, I don't feel carbon rims are for me at this time.

DFH


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## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

dirkfh said:


> First off, I cannot connect to the Chinese Carbon Wheels tread on my home DSL connection, so my oppologies if any of these questions are answered there. My T1 line at work gets me there, but not my home DSL.
> 
> Stevesbikes, thanks for bringing up the heat issue. The vast majority of my rides are in very hilly area's. I was just about to make a purchase when I read your comments. Not doubting you, but this being the internet, can others back these heat claims, problems, with first hand observations?
> 
> ...


Here are the weights on _my_ scale. A bit heavier than what Yishun claims.

1598.6gr

Front









Rear









As for heat build up on the rim surface...it may be down to braking technique when going downhill. If you drag your brake the whole way down...of course its going to heat up like mad.

If your still insure about a carbon wheel, but still want a deep wheel, run a pair of the aluminum bonded ones like the Mavic Cosmic Carbon, Spesh Roval...etc.


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## ghostryder (Dec 28, 2009)

Easton carbon clinchers.



38 and 58. Therma tec braking surface. No rider weight limit. The rims are great and very smooth. I have no regrets and i am very confident when i bomb down the descents.


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