# Any word on Landis?



## gmtarr (Jan 17, 2007)

Will he come back? If so, will he sign with Rock Racing, Garmin or another team? Personally I'd like to see him ride for Garmin. He and Zabriskie are boys. The Allen Lim connection. David Millar was suspended for doping, so that's not an issue. I still believe that Floyd won the 06 Tour clean and I hope he can come back and win the Tour again just to say "F you" to all the doubters.


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## Spin42 (Sep 8, 2004)

I'd like to see Landis come back as well, but I don't think you'll see a team roll the dice with Landis at the TdF. I highly doubt ASO would invite Landis or his team to/back at the Tour.
I also think he won straight up, irritates me when I read, "Oscar Pereiro, winner of the 2006 TdF".


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## tconrady (May 1, 2007)

gmtarr said:


> Will he come back? If so, will he sign with Rock Racing, Garmin or another team? Personally I'd like to see him ride for Garmin. He and Zabriskie are boys. The Allen Lim connection. David Millar was suspended for doping, so that's not an issue. I still believe that Floyd won the 06 Tour clean and I hope he can come back and win the Tour again just to say "F you" to all the doubters.


The major difference between Millar and Landis is that Millar fessed up. Big difference.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

he showed up a month or so ago for one of our local training races (Lim was with him), so he's definitely training again - was getting some powertap data in a race situation. He was going OK and looked leaner that I thought he might be. My guess is he'll be in a Rock kit in 09 once the suspension is over.


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

gmtarr said:


> Will he come back? If so, will he sign with Rock Racing, Garmin or another team? Personally I'd like to see him ride for Garmin. He and Zabriskie are boys. The Allen Lim connection. David Millar was suspended for doping, so that's not an issue. I still believe that Floyd won the 06 Tour clean and I hope he can come back and win the Tour again just to say "F you" to all the doubters.


Yeah, wouldn't it be great if Ricco, Piepoli, Mayo, Vino, Kash, Basso, Jan and Floyd all came back and signed onto the same team and dominated some future TdF just to stick it to the ASO? And wouldn't it be great if they did it all with straight face while riding "clean"?


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## Stasera (Mar 6, 2006)

Garmin wouldn't touch Landis with a ten-foot pole. Neither would any other team that (a) cares about projecting an anti-doping image, or (b) cares about getting an invite to the Tour de France.

These days, there's no room on the top teams for unrepentant dopers like Landis. I bet Floyd is wishing now that he'd spent his suspension time speaking out against doping, or helping orphans in India, rather than swindling his fans out of money to support his bogus claims of innocence.

Landis to Rock Racing is my guess.


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

Yeah. Good match. A doper who still won't fess up with a team who has one, if not the strictest, anti-doping policies. Bet you believe in Santa, too.


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

How did this get moved to the doping forum in roughly an hour? The question wasn't about his doping, it was about if anybody knew if/when he was coming back? Kind of a short leash on this, eh admin guy? WTF?


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## gmtarr (Jan 17, 2007)

MG537 said:


> Yeah, wouldn't it be great if Ricco, Piepoli, Mayo, Vino, Kash, Basso, Jan and Floyd all came back and signed onto the same team and dominated some future TdF just to stick it to the ASO? And wouldn't it be great if they did it all with straight face while riding "clean"?


I hope you are joking with your Bjarne Riis is innocent headline. Because that kind of makes your post a tad bit hypocritical. That's just me though. 

Secondly, like I said above, I believe that Floyd did not dope. That is my opinion. I'm entitled to it as you are your's. It's all good. If Garmin wants a true GC guy they give him a chance. Christian Vande Velde road amazing this year but the chances of him winning it in the near future are prety slim. The ASO will have Garmin back with or without Floyd. They had success in this year's tour and you can say pretty confidentiatly that their riders are clean. Once Landis serves his suspension it's over. Why continue to punish him?

I still think realistically he'll end up on Rock Racing, a team that will never sniff the Tour.


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## gmtarr (Jan 17, 2007)

I was just thinking the same thing.


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## Under ACrookedSky (Nov 8, 2005)

coop said:


> How did this get moved to the doping forum in roughly an hour? The question wasn't about his doping, it was about if anybody knew if/when he was coming back? Kind of a short leash on this, eh admin guy? WTF?


It is because roadbikereview pretends that there is no doping in the sport, so anything that can remotely be construed to be about doping is moved here. They have to keep up the whitewash, you know. The truth might upset the homers.


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

Sure you can believe that. It's your right. You can believe Tyler didn't either. Same deal. You can believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, and Mary Poppins. It's your right. Doesn't mean it's true, tho.


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

Under ACrookedSky said:


> It is because roadbikereview pretends that there is no doping in the sport, so anything that can remotely be construed to be about doping is moved here. They have to keep up the whitewash, you know. The truth might upset the homers.



Maybe the Pro Racing forum should be moved here as well since any rider that has good performance is considered "suspect"


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

gmtarr said:


> I was just thinking the same thing.



It's obvious whoever is moderating today didn't get laid last night and has no sense of humor. I started a thread in the pro forum titled "dope" that had nothing to do with dope and it was simply removed. Not moved, REMOVED!!

I've been sensored on a flippin road bike forum! My freedom of speech violated:cryin: Jeez admin guy, loosen up a bit would ya


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

coop said:


> It's obvious whoever is moderating today didn't get laid last night and has no sense of humor. I started a thread in the pro forum titled "dope" that had nothing to do with dope and it was simply removed. Not moved, REMOVED!!
> 
> I've been sensored on a flippin road bike forum! My freedom of speech violated:cryin: Jeez admin guy, loosen up a bit would ya


When your intent is to tool Le Maud Squad, and you admit to such, what do you expect?

RBR is actually a very liberally moderated and run forum--there is much that goes on here that does not at all fly elsewhere.


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## thien (Feb 18, 2004)

coop said:


> It's obvious whoever is moderating today didn't get laid last night and has no sense of humor. I started a thread in the pro forum titled "dope" that had nothing to do with dope and it was simply removed. Not moved, REMOVED!!
> 
> I've been sensored on a flippin road bike forum! My freedom of speech violated:cryin: Jeez admin guy, loosen up a bit would ya


It was removed, because it was a lame attempt to provoke a mod. Cool off and consider this your one and final warning. :thumbsup:


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

tconrady said:


> The major difference between Millar and Landis is that Millar fessed up. Big difference.



And yet they both served the same suspension. Look, the guy has done his time, let him race if he wants to. There is nothing that says after the suspension they have to admit guilt in order to return to racing. Plus, don't you think that he would be under tremendous pressure to do it clean after spending the last 2 years claiming exactly that?


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

MG537 said:


> Yeah, wouldn't it be great if Ricco, Piepoli, Mayo, Vino, Kash, Basso, Jan and Floyd all came back and signed onto the same team and dominated some future TdF just to stick it to the ASO? And wouldn't it be great if they did it all with straight face while riding "clean"?


The chance of that team getting in to the TDF is only slightly less than a team made up of aging French all-stars, led by Bernard Hinault.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Under ACrookedSky said:


> It is because roadbikereview pretends that there is no doping in the sport, so anything that can remotely be construed to be about doping is moved here. They have to keep up the whitewash, you know. The truth might upset the homers.


The truth? Who among us pretends to know the truth?


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

thien said:


> It was removed, because it was a lame attempt to provoke a mod. Cool off and consider this your one and final warning. :thumbsup:


One and final warning for what? The point I'm trying to make is that this very thread was not started about Landis' doping and yet it was moved. Yes there will be talk about his previous doping, but the original question is about his future not his past. Look, if RBR wants to move every thread that talks about doping then why not just combine the pro forum and this one?


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## Under ACrookedSky (Nov 8, 2005)

coop said:


> One and final warning for what? The point I'm trying to make is that this very thread was not started about Landis' doping and yet it was moved. Yes there will be talk about his previous doping, but the original question is about his future not his past. Look, if RBR wants to move every thread that talks about doping then why not just combine the pro forum and this one?


Bro, he used to run The Paceline. Did you ever venture over to their forum? It was like the twilight zone. Literally there was no mention of doping allowed whatsoever. It was the most ridiculous, sanitized load of lies about cycling that you ever saw. Don't be too surprised when he moderates the same way here.


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## Spin42 (Sep 8, 2004)

tconrady said:


> The major difference between Millar and Landis is that Millar fessed up. Big difference.


If Landis didn't dope he has nothing to fess up too. However, if WADA actually did screw up testing his samples, which Landis and his team of lawyers have proved, then WADA needs to fess up.


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## Under ACrookedSky (Nov 8, 2005)

Spin42 said:


> If Landis didn't dope he has nothing to fess up too. However, if WADA actually did screw up testing his samples, which Landis and his team of lawyers have proved, then WADA needs to fess up.


Give it up. Landis doped. His other Tour samples were tested, and they contained exo testosterone. He would have been better off saying that he was not doing anything any other contender was not doing (the truth) instead of saying he was not doping (a lie). Now he has backed himself into a corner.


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## jpap (Jun 21, 2006)

Spin42 said:


> If Landis didn't dope he has nothing to fess up too. However, if WADA actually did screw up testing his samples, which Landis and his team of lawyers have proved, then WADA needs to fess up.



All Landis' lawyers proved was that WADA had showed 'sloppy practices' in testing. His appeal board said this did not constitute a compromise of his positive doping results. Landis is a cheat as is every other doper and if I was running the sport I'd ban all dopers for life.


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## thien (Feb 18, 2004)

guys, this forum is run completely different from the paceline. 

You can talk about doping all you want, but it's going to be in the "doping forum".

There's a lot more to Pro Cycling than doping, and that's why there's a separate forum for doping. When a discussion goes outside of racing, and into doping, it's going to be moved here. But back on topic... doping.


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## Under ACrookedSky (Nov 8, 2005)

jpap said:


> Landis is a cheat as is every other doper...


It is only cheating if everyone else is not doing it. Otherwise it is just breaking the rules that everyone understands are not seriously enforced by the UCI anyway. You would be hard pressed to find a ProTour level rider who has ridden for more than five years who has not doped. And the chance of finding such a rider who has been there for ten years is about nil. Are you going to ban everyone?


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## loudog (Jul 22, 2008)

i would really like to see floyd return. its just too unlikely that he would test positive one day and negative the next. when you look at the half-life of testosterone, it just doesnt make sense. i hope he goes to garmin or colombia, rock racing just does seem like floyd's style.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

just for the record, Landis' samples from stage 15 and 19 were negative contrary to claim above.


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## jpap (Jun 21, 2006)

Under ACrookedSky said:


> It is only cheating if everyone else is not doing it. Otherwise it is just breaking the rules that everyone understands are not seriously enforced by the UCI anyway. You would be hard pressed to find a ProTour level rider who has ridden for more than five years who has not doped. And the chance of finding such a rider who has been there for ten years is about nil. Are you going to ban everyone?



That is a defeatist attitude. The problem with cycling is that there is this perceived attitude amongst cyclists and the public that you need to dope to be competitive because everyone is doing it. Until you start banning people for life then this perceived view will always exist. If that means there are no riders left in the pro ranks then so be it. We can wait until the next generation of riders come thru that haven't this perceived attitude and then we will have a clean peleton.


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## Bry03cobra (Oct 31, 2006)

tconrady said:


> The major difference between Millar and Landis is that Millar fessed up. Big difference.



Floyd failed a test for Testosterone, not EPO. Floyd most likely failed due to use of the T-patch for recovery that 90% of the riders ues, difference is that dummy probably fell asleep, left it on too long. After the reports about bribes for neg "B" samples, makes ya wonder....I feel he probably did dope, but not 100% sure. 

Millar never failed a test, that tool was caught with drugs and supplies. No claiming clean when caught with your hand in the cookie jar.

I have more of a prob using something that makes your blood like tomato paste than using a something to help your muscles recover....thats my $0.02


With that....I would love to see Floyd with Garmin. Maybe him being on a team with a strict doping program, he will be given a 2nd chance. But my feeling is that he will be the GC guy on RR's euro team. Probably get to race the Giro and Veulta but no TDF.


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## tete de la tour (Oct 26, 2006)

We see Floyd often in our area. He is riding some of the most dificult climbs in socal just about every weekend. My wife and I saw him almost every Sunday for a while there. nice guy. I'm not sure what to believe. I kinda believe he used a banned substance. However that being said I feel like his performance was do able. I would like to see him return and do well while under a reliable anti doping program. I also agree with others that he will be wi michael balls company. One of our local guys rides for RR so I would not be surprised to see him and floyd riding together. He looks to be in good shape. not as skinny as he was in the tour but he was never built like andy schleck.


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## WeakMite (Feb 20, 2005)

Could Floyd end up at Tinkoff? ...they employed Tyler (for a little while).

On second thought... I sorta interpreted the Tyler at Tinkoff thing as a temporary lapse of judgement on their part.


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2008)

If you're going to do the crime, be ready to do the time. Why Floyd went ballistic when he had to know he had exogenous testosterone in his system is just beyond me. Maybe he was mad because other guys have tested positive and not gotten busted or because everyone he beat was doping as well. It's not totally fair, but that's the way it is. The guys need to just fess up, do their 2 years and have a chance at returning to their careers.


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

gmtarr said:


> I hope you are joking with your Bjarne Riis is innocent headline. Because that kind of makes your post a tad bit hypocritical. That's just me though.
> 
> Secondly, like I said above, I believe that Floyd did not dope. That is my opinion. I'm entitled to it as you are your's. It's all good. If Garmin wants a true GC guy they give him a chance. Christian Vande Velde road amazing this year but the chances of him winning it in the near future are prety slim. The ASO will have Garmin back with or without Floyd. They had success in this year's tour and you can say pretty confidentiatly that their riders are clean. Once Landis serves his suspension it's over. Why continue to punish him?
> 
> I still think realistically he'll end up on Rock Racing, a team that will never sniff the Tour.


Yes it's called sarcasm.
Bill Gates' "640K ought to be enough for anybody" is another example of sarcasm.
I wasn't focusing too much on him coming back. I, like you, also believe he deserves a second chance. 
The only disagreement I had with your post is the "clean" part.
His samples contained exogenous testosterone. Exogenous testosterone is a banned substance. Therefore Floyd doped. Is testosterone a direct PED like EPO? Answer is no. Testosterone is taken for recovery. I guess you can say it is an indirect PED since the following day you feel fresher than an opponent who has not recovered as well.
I hope this clears thing up a little bit.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

*i doubt tinkoff would go that route*

the team formerly known as tinkoff signed hamilton for two reasons: publicity and they thought he could deliver. he couldnt deliver. there were paycheck problems when tyler wasnt allowed to race, too. i dont think they would head down that road again.

also, after what happened with astana at this years tour, no team with hopes of being invited to le tour would sign landis. he and the chicken tie for being the biggest stain on le tour.

landis will be at rock racing. isnt he already on the payroll? he acts like it.



WeakMite said:


> Could Floyd end up at Tinkoff? ...they employed Tyler (for a little while).
> 
> On second thought... I sorta interpreted the Tyler at Tinkoff thing as a temporary lapse of judgement on their part.


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

AJL said:


> If you're going to do the crime, be ready to do the time. Why Floyd went ballistic when he had to know he had exogenous testosterone in his system is just beyond me. Maybe he was mad because other guys have tested positive and not gotten busted or because everyone he beat was doping as well. It's not totally fair, but that's the way it is. The guys need to just fess up, do their 2 years and have a chance at returning to their careers.



As of this coming January he will have done his 2 years. So can he race now or does he need to go to RBR confession? What if he's a non-denominational cyclist? Can he just ask for forgiveness in solitude between him and whoever matters? The guy went trough a 2 year legal battle (granted he brought it on), is serving a 2 year suspension, and has been blasted in every media outlet throughout the cycling world. But unless he says "okay, I did it" he shouldn't be allowed to race?

I think he'd be a great addition to Garmin. He's already familiar with Alan Lim, buddies with Z-Dave, and would be forced to do it clean (as he's been arguing). I don't think he'll be a top GC guy, but he'd be a great addition in the mountains and in the clubhouse.


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## Bry03cobra (Oct 31, 2006)

coop said:


> As of this coming January he will have done his 2 years. So can he race now or does he need to go to RBR confession? What if he's a non-denominational cyclist? Can he just ask for forgiveness in solitude between him and whoever matters? The guy went trough a 2 year legal battle (granted he brought it on), is serving a 2 year suspension, and has been blasted in every media outlet throughout the cycling world. But unless he says "okay, I did it" he shouldn't be allowed to race?
> 
> I think he'd be a great addition to Garmin. He's already familiar with Alan Lim, buddies with Z-Dave, and would be forced to do it clean (as he's been arguing). I don't think he'll be a top GC guy, but he'd be a great addition in the mountains and in the clubhouse.


-----------------------
I agree on most of what ya said, but Floyd will be 33 next season. Not old, he is a year younger than Sastra. He can TT and climb. If his team is strong, he will be able to hold onto Contador for a while. Stay close enough to make up lost time in the TT. Was FL on postal when Vaughters was there?? 

I expect to see FL at the TOC, TOG, GDI, and VDE. Wearing either Garmin or Rockracing kit.


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## Bry03cobra (Oct 31, 2006)

coop said:


> As of this coming January he will have done his 2 years. So can he race now or does he need to go to RBR confession? What if he's a non-denominational cyclist? Can he just ask for forgiveness in solitude between him and whoever matters? The guy went trough a 2 year legal battle (granted he brought it on), is serving a 2 year suspension, and has been blasted in every media outlet throughout the cycling world. But unless he says "okay, I did it" he shouldn't be allowed to race?
> 
> I think he'd be a great addition to Garmin. He's already familiar with Alan Lim, buddies with Z-Dave, and would be forced to do it clean (as he's been arguing). I don't think he'll be a top GC guy, but he'd be a great addition in the mountains and in the clubhouse.


-----------------------
I agree on most of what ya said, but Floyd will be 33 next season. Not old, he is a year younger than Sastra. He can TT and climb. If his team is strong, he will be able to hold onto Contador for a while. Stay close enough to make up lost time in the TT. Was FL on postal when Vaughters was there?? 

I expect to see FL at the TOC, TOG, GDI, and VDE. Wearing either Garmin or Rockracing kit.


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

Bry03cobra said:


> -----------------------
> I agree on most of what ya said, but Floyd will be 33 next season. Not old, he is a year younger than Sastra. He can TT and climb. If his team is strong, he will be able to hold onto Contador for a while. Stay close enough to make up lost time in the TT. Was FL on postal when Vaughters was there??
> 
> I expect to see FL at the TOC, TOG, GDI, and VDE. Wearing either Garmin or Rockracing kit.



The age thing concerns me as well. If he had been racing for the past 2 years it'd be different, but to come back after that hiatus you have to wonder how quick the body will react. Somebody said it looked like he put on a couple pounds (Dick Pound the bastard).
Do you have any Idea how hard it is to lose those last couple pounds once you hit your mid 30's? That why I thought he'd be better as a mentor (insert standard doping joke here)


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## Bry03cobra (Oct 31, 2006)

The weight is a non issue. Its not like FL was Jan and started the season 10-15 lbs heavy. Remember cycling is his full time job, once he starts race training, the weight will fall off him.


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2008)

coop said:


> As of this coming January he will have done his 2 years. So can he race now or does he need to go to RBR confession? What if he's a non-denominational cyclist? Can he just ask for forgiveness in solitude between him and whoever matters? The guy went trough a 2 year legal battle (granted he brought it on), is serving a 2 year suspension, and has been blasted in every media outlet throughout the cycling world. But unless he says "okay, I did it" he shouldn't be allowed to race?


Fine by me - he did his time.


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## sevencycle (Apr 23, 2006)

Any rumor/news Floyd will be at Leadville 100 ???


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## lookrider (Dec 3, 2006)

Bry03cobra said:


> -----------------------
> I agree on most of what ya said, but Floyd will be 33 next season. Not old, he is a year younger than Sastra. He can TT and climb. If his team is strong, he will be able to hold onto Contador for a while. Stay close enough to make up lost time in the TT. Was FL on postal when Vaughters was there??
> 
> I expect to see FL at the TOC, TOG, GDI, and VDE. Wearing either Garmin or Rockracing kit.


I think Floyd is a spent force. He may ride again because he needs the money but the party is over for him. Vaughters who's pretty close to him, commented in the NY Times something to the effect that Floyd thought all the crap he had done in the past was catching up to him mentally. This was around the time of the positive tests in July 2006.

He knows where he comes from, and he knows where the sport of Pro cycling is, and I don't think he can reconcile the two. If the sport is still awash with drugs, and he doesn't come clean about his past use, I don't see him having the motivation to live a lie..


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## Chili Fries (Jul 4, 2008)

He'll never ride clean. He's a chaudiere.


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

Im kind of in that "better to let 100 guilty men go free than to put one innocent man in jail" frame of mind. There were so many problems with his testing, it makes me nervous saying the guy is the devil and should never be able to practice his trade again! Not exactly the same as Santa Claus. There is SOME doubt about his test, therefore the result is irrelevant. I think its better to let him ride knowing there is better than a 50% chance he may have been guilty and got away with it than to end his career because he might have done something. I think when you ruin someone's life, the bar has to be pretty darn high, like 99.9999%.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

bigmig19 said:


> Im kind of in that "better to let 100 guilty men go free than to put one innocent man in jail" frame of mind. There were so many problems with his testing, it makes me nervous saying the guy is the devil and should never be able to practice his trade again! Not exactly the same as Santa Claus. There is SOME doubt about his test, therefore the result is irrelevant. I think its better to let him ride knowing there is better than a 50% chance he may have been guilty and got away with it than to end his career because he might have done something. I think when you ruin someone's life, the bar has to be pretty darn high, like 99.9999%.


There was no problem with the IRMS testing, the chief reason he was found guilty.

Most of the Landis case was smoke and mirrors, that is why two independent arbitration panels who had full access to both sides of the discussion found him guilty. The CAS trashed his BS defense.

Floyd doped, got caught, should have told the truth instead of the two year lie.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2008)

bigpinkt said:


> Floyd doped, got caught, should have told the truth instead of the two year lie.


Bingo! Plus, he'd probably be back to pro road racing about...now!


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

Exactly. It's his lawyer's job to try and discredit the tests.


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## loudog (Jul 22, 2008)

medically speaking, the half life of testosterone is such that he should have tested positive for more than one day. its quite unusual that he would test positive for only one day.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

loudog said:


> medically speaking, the half life of testosterone is such that he should have tested positive for more than one day. its quite unusual that he would test positive for only one day.


He when they ran the IRMS test, that looks for Synthetic testosterone, he tested positive 6 times. The one day test is only for a ratio, which is easily beaten with a Epi injection.


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## danielc (Oct 24, 2002)

*Conspiracy theory*

Has anybody looked at the suicide of his father in-law? I believe that they had an extremely close relationship. I don't think it was a coincidence that the suicide happened shortly after the tests started coming back positive. Did Landis confess to him and he just couldn't take it? 
Whatever happened to Allen Lim who's now with Garmin? That guy followed Landis everywhere and monitored everything. Does he know the truth? Has he said anything about the case?


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## Bry03cobra (Oct 31, 2006)

danielc said:


> Has anybody looked at the suicide of his father in-law? I believe that they had an extremely close relationship. I don't think it was a coincidence that the suicide happened shortly after the tests started coming back positive. Did Landis confess to him and he just couldn't take it?
> Whatever happened to Allen Lim who's now with Garmin? That guy followed Landis everywhere and monitored everything. Does he know the truth? Has he said anything about the case?


I think your comments are pretty tasteless. If I remember correctly, his father in law had been battling depression, and was going through financial problems with a restraunt he owned. Floyds failed test probably didnt help, but wasnt the reason. If I also remember correctly they raced together at some point.....I sure he knew what was going on as far as doping goes. The failed test shouldnt have been a surprise. 

As far as Lim goes, he was on FL's defense team helping with data. Another reason why a Garmin/Floyd may work.....you are also forgetting about Robbie Ventura (FL's Trainer), Im sure Floyds name came up while RV was driving with Vaughters in the Garmin car!!


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## danielc (Oct 24, 2002)

Bry03cobra said:


> I think your comments are pretty tasteless.


Thank you for letting me know.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

Bry03cobra said:


> As far as Lim goes, he was on FL's defense team helping with data. Another reason why a Garmin/Floyd may work.....you are also forgetting about Robbie Ventura (FL's Trainer), Im sure Floyds name came up while RV was driving with Vaughters in the Garmin car!!


Lim was not on Flandis' defense team, in fact he has barely spoken with him since the positives.


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## Bry03cobra (Oct 31, 2006)

There was a photo in velonews with Lim, Robbie V, Floyd, and Dave Z (in full grizzly adams beard) and other people helping with his "fight" during the inital legal stuff. I will see If I can dig it up. I'm thinking it was the issue with the 3 woman US champs on the cover.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

Bry03cobra said:


> There was a photo in velonews with Lim, Robbie V, Floyd, and Dave Z (in full grizzly adams beard) and other people helping with his "fight" during the inital legal stuff. I will see If I can dig it up. I'm thinking it was the issue with the 3 woman US champs on the cover.


The picture was likely from before his positive. Lim did not have as close a relationship with Floyd as many make it out to be, in fact they often had conflicts and did not speak for weeks. I hear this from some of the Slipstream team guys I know so no way to confirm this. 

Lim did just do an interview with Kimmage were he says he did not see Floyd for 4-5 months after the positive and then it was only because he ran into him at a function. He said all he Floyd did when they met was "Rant about the testing"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/paul_kimmage/article4322625.ece

I seem to remember he did show up at the trial a few times but did not testify


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2008)

loudog said:


> medically speaking, the half life of testosterone is such that he should have tested positive for more than one day. its quite unusual that he would test positive for only one day.


But, with small quantities of T, the testosterone level could still drop below the level of detectability - which is why many cyclists use it for recovery. Remember 1/2 life only tells part of the story in terms of steroid concentration in a blood sample.


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## Bry03cobra (Oct 31, 2006)

bigpinkt said:


> The picture was likely from before his positive. Lim did not have as close a relationship with Floyd as many make it out to be, in fact they often had conflicts and did not speak for weeks. I hear this from some of the Slipstream team guys I know so no way to confirm this.


I screwed up, I found the pic. Robbie V was there, but I mixed up Maurice Suh one of his
lawers with Allen Lim.


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## 1stmh (Apr 7, 2007)

I think (hope) Floyd will come back, probably with RR. I think his first year will be quiet though. Two and half years away from competition is a long time, and it will be hard for him to get his form back. I don't know if he can do it by the time he is 35 or 36, but I look forward to finding out. 

It makes me mad that we have been robbed of seeing floyd at his peak, regardless of whose fault it is/was. We are truly the ones that lost out. This guy would have been great.


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## tron (Jul 18, 2004)

What bothers me about the whole thing is that if he knew he was guilty, why did he go out and get donations from the general public to fight this case. That is right up there with Marion Jones filing a defamation lawsuit when she was flat out guilty. What a waste of money for all those people, if I were in Landis' shoes I could not live with myself pulling that


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## wolfereeno (Feb 12, 2004)

Today I noticed that Floyd took down his personal website. I sometimes wonder what these guys (Floyd, Tyler, etc) do with their lives after putting so much into something and then have it go so very wrong (through their own doing or not, who knows). 

Picture this with Floyd: one of the basics of his family's menonite faith is humility and that only god deserves glory. So young Floyd rebells against his faith and eventually walks away from it. He goes on to excel at a sport where they swath you in gold (pink or yellow), give you medals, attention, and litterally place you on top of a pedestal for doing well! How ironic that it's brought him so much misery. If I was him, that would be one huge mindf*ck.


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## 1stmh (Apr 7, 2007)

Tron: of course your post hinges on the fact that he did in fact dope. Something I am not so sure about. 

Wolfereeno: Floyd's website has been down since right after his decision from the CAS. I went and checked it that day, and it was down. Also, I remember looking at it in the days leading up to the decision, and he had not posted an update since February 2008. It's a sad and telling fact about our society in that he decided very early on to make everything public about his defense, deliberately so, and yet it has brought him nothing but grief. I can't blame or fault him for taking it down. If I were him I would have become a hermit a long time ago, and gone into stealth mode. Not b/c I think he is guilty (only he knows), but just because being public about it has not worked at all, only made public perception and scorn that much worse, despite the fact that he may very well be innocent.


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## Under ACrookedSky (Nov 8, 2005)

1stmh said:


> I think (hope) Floyd will come back, probably with RR. I think his first year will be quiet though. Two and half years away from competition is a long time, and it will be hard for him to get his form back. I don't know if he can do it by the time he is 35 or 36, but I look forward to finding out.
> 
> It makes me mad that we have been robbed of seeing floyd at his peak, regardless of whose fault it is/was. We are truly the ones that lost out. This guy would have been great.


The drugs help getting back in shape. It has been that way for awhile. A rider crashes and is out of competition for months. He then comes back as though he did not miss any competition whatsoever. It is not because he spent his downtime doing non-weight bearing exercise in a pool.

Floyd is pissed off. The rage will help him do the necessary suffering to get back.

The real question is what races he will be allowed to do. Rock has plans to change its status to Pro Continental and expand into Europe next year. The Spanish and Italians will probably be a lot easier on the race start question than the French will be. If Landis is lucky, he could do the Giro or Vuelta next year.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

1stmh said:


> Tron: of course your post hinges on the fact that he did in fact dope. Something I am not so sure about.
> 
> Wolfereeno: Floyd's website has been down since right after his decision from the CAS. I went and checked it that day, and it was down. Also, I remember looking at it in the days leading up to the decision, and he had not posted an update since February 2008. It's a sad and telling fact about our society in that he decided very early on to make everything public about his defense, deliberately so, and yet it has brought him nothing but grief. I can't blame or fault him for taking it down. If I were him I would have become a hermit a long time ago, and gone into stealth mode. Not b/c I think he is guilty (only he knows), but just because being public about it has not worked at all, only made public perception and scorn that much worse, despite the fact that he may very well be innocent.


The reason Floyd went public was because he could. He knew that the other side was extremely limited in what it could say in response so he, and his lawyers, when public with their smoke and mirrors defense in an effort to sway public opinion. While many suckers bought it two panels of experts did not. 

He brought his grief on himself.


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## 1stmh (Apr 7, 2007)

bigpinkt said:


> The reason Floyd went public was because he could. He knew that the other side was extremely limited in what it could say in response so he, and his lawyers, when public with their smoke and mirrors defense in an effort to sway public opinion. While many suckers bought it two panels of experts did not.
> 
> He brought his grief on himself.


He may have brought his own grief on himself, but I wish I was as sure of my convictions as you appear to be. The truth I don't know and I don't think anyone except him, or people very close to him know for sure.

But there is a part of me that (wants) to believe him


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## loudog (Jul 22, 2008)

bigpinkt said:


> The reason Floyd went public was because he could. He knew that the other side was extremely limited in what it could say in response so he, and his lawyers, when public with their smoke and mirrors defense in an effort to sway public opinion. While many suckers bought it two panels of experts did not.
> 
> He brought his grief on himself.


the experts you referred to were not scientists and floyd had some top notch people on his side. also, these same people that you say held their mouths shut were the same ones that leaked the results. the panels have a huge vested interest in not letting someone win an appeal, they are not objective entities. if someone wins an appeal it calls into question previous defenses. traditionally, the ada authorities have not been fully on the up and up, look at dick pound, what a prick.


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2008)

1stmh said:


> despite the fact that he may very well be innocent.


Uhm, at this point he has been found guilty - like it or not.


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

loudog said:


> the experts you referred to were not scientists and floyd had some top notch people on his side.


Actually he did not, the experts where on the other side. All Floyd had was a GP and a guy who is out of a job.



loudog said:


> also, these same people that you say held their mouths shut were the same ones that leaked the results.


Nope, WADA did not leak the results. Floyd's team, Phonak, did.



loudog said:


> the panels have a huge vested interest in not letting someone win an appeal, they are not objective entities. if someone wins an appeal it calls into question previous defenses. traditionally, the ada authorities have not been fully on the up and up, look at dick pound, what a prick.


Do you have evidence to support this or is this just an opinion? CAS has overturned multiple rulings, but I have yet to see a ruling as critical as the one the dropped on the Floyd. What did Dick do to harm Floyds defense? What did he do to somehow convince CAS to deny Floyd's myth?


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## 1stmh (Apr 7, 2007)

AJL said:


> Uhm, at this point he has been found guilty - like it or not.


The worst possible form of plagiarism (a form of cheating :wink: ) is to quote someone out of context. Go back and read everything I wrote, and then come back and see if what you quoted squares in with what I have been saying


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

Bottom line is there were inconsistencies, despite some degree of smoke and mirrors. Therefore if he was in fact innocent it would hardly be a big surprise. Much, much stranger things have happened. I hedge toward his guilt, but that aint good enough when the penalty is as high as it is. If Floyd didnt have SOME reasonable doubt, that trial wouldnt have lasted that long. There were problems with his testing, period. So you get over it!


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

loudog said:


> the panels have a huge vested interest in not letting someone win an appeal, they are not objective entities. if someone wins an appeal it calls into question previous defenses.



really? the "panels" seemed to have done alrite by <a href="http://www.marca.com/edicion/marca/ciclismo/es/desarrollo/1151989.html">Peña</a>.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/aug08/aug01news


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

loudog said:


> the panels have a huge vested interest in not letting someone win an appeal, they are not objective entities. if someone wins an appeal it calls into question previous defenses. traditionally, the ada authorities have not been fully on the up and up, look at dick pound, what a prick.


I'm not following you. Why would the arbiters care if "it calls into question previous defenses"? It is their job to decide if within the agreed upon rules, the doping authorities have sufficient grounds to charge (or uphold a decision) an athlete with a doping infraction. They don't represent ADAs or the athletes, but are a "neutral".


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## bigpinkt (Jul 20, 2006)

bigmig19 said:


> Bottom line is there were inconsistencies, despite some degree of smoke and mirrors. Therefore if he was in fact innocent it would hardly be a big surprise. Much, much stranger things have happened. I hedge toward his guilt, but that aint good enough when the penalty is as high as it is. If Floyd didnt have SOME reasonable doubt, that trial wouldnt have lasted that long. There were problems with his testing, period. So you get over it!


There were no inconsistencies or testing issues with the IRMS test, that is why he was found guilty. The reason why the Floyd mess lasted a long time was because Floyd had $$$ not reasonable doubt.


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## Bry03cobra (Oct 31, 2006)

Read some of what Realgains has to say. They all dope to some degree. Remember Oscar P didn't say much til after FL was finally stripped of the TDF win. Probably beacause Oscar was doped up as well (they were teamates at phonak the year before). I have stated this before....my opinion is that he probably was using the Tpatch. (Just like almost everybody else does) I don't care I'd that's used to aid in muscle recovery. He was mad and fought it beacause he knows everybody else uses what he was busted for. I have ZERO prob with these guys using something that aids is recovery. I have issues with illegal use of EPO. If EPO wasn't tested for, and blood was monitored to stay in a safe range, then I have no probs with its use.


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## 1stmh (Apr 7, 2007)

So, does anyone know if floyd will be racing the Leadville 100 against Lance?

I can't seem to find anything about him racing it this year.


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

1stmh said:


> So, does anyone know if floyd will be racing the Leadville 100 against Lance?
> 
> I can't seem to find anything about him racing it this year.


it's a NORBA sanctioned event this year so I think he's probably not.


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

Tyler <a href="https://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/aug08/aug06news2">says</a> "Floyd is welcome to join us immediately". I find Tyler sort of creepy of late.<br>

<center><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3265/2570527157_6d5fbc31e3.jpg?v=0"></center>


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