# TdF '14 Stage 2 Jul 6 Discussion Thread (spoiler alert)



## PJay (May 28, 2004)

TdF '14 Stage 2 Jul 6 Discussion Thread (spoiler alert)
120 miles from York to Sheffield.
One set of sprint-points up for grabs abt a third of the way thru, and nine sets of climber points peppered throughout.
More hilly than stage 1, so more beautiful views for those who have sprung for the live coverage, but fewer sweeping vistas.
none of these climbs are very big, but with all of the points on the stage, the ride should be boiling with activity, and the riders ought to be spread all over the course.

in a long shot, any yellow jersey dark horse contender could grab yellow and a couple minutes, forcing a lot of activity early. if so, we will avoid the problem of the boring-first-week. -stages 3 and 4 look like they belong to sprinters, and the peleton will hold status quo, so the yellow jersey holder of stage 2 may hold on to it for these couple of more days.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Just a beautiful day and countryside. Jens going balls out to get the climber's jersey was cool. Can't wait for the sprint finish.
As the commentators pointed out, the crowds are huge and really well behaved. The organization did a great job in getting people to the course (parking, etc.).
Tomorrow's course looks brutal. Kind of like a mini Liege-Bastogne-Liege.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

And Cav uses his head to push Gerrans...and looks to have snapped his collar bone after causing the resulting crash.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Cav rode across the line but it looks bad. We'll see what the damage is soon.


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## gp3d (Jul 6, 2011)

On to other things, has anyone else noticed that Talansky is 4:15 down according to this: Classifications stage 1 - Leeds > Harrogate - Tour de France 2014


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## jhamlin38 (Oct 29, 2005)

Talansky is done already. Super dissappointing. I thought that group caught back on. I guess not. I'm sure David Miller is thrilled. Karma just blew Garmin away in the first 100k


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## bradkay (Nov 5, 2013)

Umm... today's stage - July 5 - was Stage 1. It appears that this thread was set up to discuss tomorrow's stage...


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

jhamlin38 said:


> Talansky is done already. Super dissappointing. I thought that group caught back on. I guess not. I'm sure David Miller is thrilled. Karma just blew Garmin away in the first 100k


I bet JV is swearing up a storm right now. Giro TTT crash day one, then Talansky down day 1 at TdF. I don't know why they didn't send Dan Martin along, unless his shoulder is not 100% yet.

Should have checked twitter first.
Edit:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Andrew Talansky will get same time as winner. He flatted with 3kms to go, within the permitted zone. Check <a href="http://t.co/0dvv7TpRKo">http://t.co/0dvv7TpRKo</a></p>— Jonathan Vaughters (@Vaughters) <a href="https://twitter.com/Vaughters/statuses/485468894493421569">July 5, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


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## jhamlin38 (Oct 29, 2005)

Now that I read other articles. The group did catch back on. I believe they are currently "unofficial" results/timing. I think Talansky took 5 minutes to get thru the carnage.
hopefully they'll neutralize the race, as typical in the last 3k.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Marc said:


> And Cav uses his head to push Gerrans...and looks to have snapped his collar bone after causing the resulting crash.


Man. It only took one stage for Cav bashing. Congrats. AS$hat post first day since he is likely out. And please actually race a bike before assigning blame. People touch and push in sprints. The crash was a result of the bars getting hooked. Not much you can do at those speeds.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

spookyload said:


> Man. It only took one stage for Cav bashing. Congrats. AS$hat post first day since he is likely out. And please actually race a bike before assigning blame. People touch and push in sprints. The crash was a result of the bars getting hooked. Not much you can do at those speeds.


Calling a spade a spade (Cav did shove Gerrans, and likely does have a collarbone...after all that is all my post said) is "bashing" now? Good grief. Grow a pair. 

Handlebars hooking caused Gerrans to lose control. Why did Gerrans get pushed into Coquard's handlbars? Or did I just give it away?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6Zdi_wmGtk

Live at 1:00 minute in and in slow motion both from front and overhead starting at 2:10

Note how no one is close enough to Gerrans to hook a bar until long after (in sprinting terms) Cav uses his humongously big head to push Gerrans off course, at which point Gerrans gets sandwiched. Gerrans never would have touched Coquard were it not for Cav. Sure people touch and push during sprints...you lay your head into someone else to shove them off their line and precipitate a crash, you have only yourself to blame.

sidenote: NOW saying "Cav uses his humongously big head" DOES actually perhaps qualify as bashing unlike the post you quoted before. :mad2:


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Marc said:


> Calling a spade a spade (Cav did shove Gerrans, and likely does have a collarbone...after all that is all my post said) is "bashing" now? Good grief. Grow a pair.
> 
> Handlebars hooking caused Gerrans to lose control. Why did Gerrans get pushed into Coquard's handlbars? Or did I just give it away?
> 
> ...


watch the video at 4'43"50. Cav is solidly on Sagan's wheel once his train evaporates. At that point Gerrans moved over to try and force Cav off his wheel. That was first contact. Once they touched, they were out of it. A gap opened and that is why you don't see Sagan in the above view. Gerrans came over on Cav. Cav didn't move to the right where it was clear because he had the wheel he wanted and was trying to hold it.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Here is Cav squarely on Sagan's wheel. Right where he wants to be.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

spookyload said:


> watch the video at 4'43"50. Cav is solidly on Sagan's wheel once his train evaporates. At that point Gerrans moved over to try and force Cav off his wheel. That was first contact. Once they touched, they were out of it. A gap opened and that is why you don't see Sagan in the above view. Gerrans came over on Cav. Cav didn't move to the right where it was clear because he had the wheel he wanted and was trying to hold it.


Except Gerrans didn't come over. In the slow motion overhead you can see the dotted line in the middle of the road drift under Cavendish from left to right. And in the overhead you can also see Cav's position changing in the frame. 

*After looking at more than a few times I'm pretty sure that dotted line is straight until after the crash where it bends a bit.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

spookyload said:


> Here is Cav squarely on Sagan's wheel. Right where he wants to be.


here is Gerrans coming over on Cav and forcing contact. Please explain why Cav would come off Sagan's wheel to make contact on purpose at 330m? Clearly Gerrans was trying to take Sagan's wheel. Cav wasn't having it.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Marc said:


> Except Gerrans didn't come over. In the slow motion overhead you can see the dotted line in the middle of the road drift under Cavendish from left to right. And in the overhead you can also see Cav's position changing in the frame.
> 
> *After looking at more than a few times I'm pretty sure that dotted line is straight until after the crash where it bends a bit.


Cav was riding Sagan's wheel like you would expect him to do. With Cancellara still off the front, do you think Cav was going to lead it out from that far. If Cav was moving over it was to stay on Sagan's wheel. Look at my two stills. He wasn't looking to move out, he was holding a wheel. Exactly what you are supposed to do.

look at the two pics I posted. Cav and Sagan are holding their lines in reference to the dotted line. The only rider moving over is Gerrans.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

spookyload said:


> Cav was riding Sagan's wheel like you would expect him to do. With Cancellara still off the front, do you think Cav was going to lead it out from that far. If Cav was moving over it was to stay on Sagan's wheel. Look at my two stills. He wasn't looking to move out, he was holding a wheel. Exactly what you are supposed to do.
> 
> look at the two pics I posted. Cav and Sagan are holding their lines in reference to the dotted line. The only rider moving over is Gerrans.


You need your eyes checked as to who was moving over. I even added in a red line for reference.

The first frame is reference to show where in the road paint-text the centerline is. 2nd frame shows overhead where Cav is and where Cav/Gerrans are with respect to center. 3rd frame is right before the crash-guess what? Cav came over.

I'd also add that Sagan was drifting to the opposite side of the road from where Gerrans/Sagan et al crashed at the time, so it wasn't like "Cav was following Sagan's wheel" indeed as seen in the attached stills you can see Sagan move over right. Cav wasn'r following his line he was moving the opposite way...nor was Gerrans drfting into Cav.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Marc said:


> You need your eyes checked as to who was moving over. I even added in a red line for reference.
> 
> The first frame is reference to show where in the road paint-text the centerline is. 2nd frame shows overhead where Cav is and where Cav/Gerrans are with respect to center. 3rd frame is right before the crash-guess what? Cav came over.
> 
> I'd also add that Sagan was drifting to the opposite side of the road from where Gerrans/Sagan et al crashed at the time, so it wasn't like "Cav was following Sagan's wheel" indeed as seen in the attached stills you can see Sagan move over right. Cav wasn'r following his line he was moving the opposite way...nor was Gerrans drfting into Cav.


The first pic you posted would have shown what I am talking about and I show in my two stills. Cav was on Sagan's wheel. Had your first picture shown Gerrans, you would see he is a foot or more to the left. Unfortunately, your pic doesn't show him. Mine does. Gerrans does in fact move in on Cav as my two pictures show. It is off the bottom of your pics. Once contact is made between the two holding wheels and holding lines didn't matter. They riders lost the pace and were fighting for balance. The race was over for them at first contact.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

spookyload said:


> The first pic you posted would have shown what I am talking about and I show in my two stills. Cav was on Sagan's wheel. Had your first picture shown Gerrans, you would see he is a foot or more to the left. Unfortunately, your pic doesn't show him. Mine does. Gerrans does in fact move in on Cav as my two pictures show. It is off the bottom of your pics. Once contact is made between the two holding wheels and holding lines didn't matter. They riders lost the pace and were fighting for balance. The race was over for them at first contact.


Interesting...so if Gerrans closes up a bit(as you point out) and Cav responds by headbutting him off his new line into someone else causing both to crash....Cav's headbutting someone into crashing is not Cav's fault?

Your honor, if that damn bank teller didn't have that cash out I'd never have tried to steal it!


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Update Cav with a dislocated collarbone and some torn soft tissue....and admits fault

Hopes for a home-crowd win and yellow jersey come crashing down - VeloNews.com


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## runabike (Jun 18, 2013)

spookyload said:


> Man. It only took one stage for Cav bashing. Congrats. AS$hat post first day since he is likely out. And please actually race a bike before assigning blame. People touch and push in sprints. The crash was a result of the bars getting hooked. Not much you can do at those speeds.


Except Cavendish disagrees with you.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

runabike said:


> Except Cavendish disagrees with you.


It's called sportsmanship. I know it elludes most of you when it come to the tour and you love assigning blame for why rider-x did this or that.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

spookyload said:


> It's called sportsmanship. I know it elludes most of you when it come to the tour and you love assigning blame for why rider-x did this or that.


i think your argument is with CVNDSH at this point. he's on twitter if you want to tell him he's wrong.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

the breakaway will get swallowed up at this hill, and a sprinter will be able to get this one opportunity for sprinter points here at keighley...


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

a great time for someone to jump to the breakaway...


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Camera spectator deserved to get hit by something other than a featherweight rider.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

Marc said:


> Camera spectator deserved to get hit by something other than a featherweight rider.


-that's my fav highlight thus far


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

PJay said:


> -that's my fav highlight thus far


I dunno...Navardauskas swatting idiot's iPhones to the ground that were being stuck out into the pelotons faces is my favorite.

Last thing that phone ever did was capture a hand swatting it.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Marc said:


> I dunno...Navardauskas swatting idiot's iPhones to the ground that were being stuck out into the pelotons faces is my favorite.
> 
> Last thing that phone ever did was capture a hand swatting it.


I understand his frustration, but man that looks bad swatting at fans. As a sponsor I would tell him to chill a bit. I can picture some fan suing for property damage or assault if that was in 'Merica. Not that they don't deserve it for being so idiotic.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

burgrat said:


> I understand his frustration, but man that looks bad swatting at fans. As a sponsor I would tell him to chill a bit. I can picture some fan suing for property damage or assault if that was in 'Merica. Not that they don't deserve it for being so idiotic.


Yea...but at the same time compared to yesterday the number of people oblivious to the entire world holding their cellphone cam is just silly. Hell, Kittel just flatted in front of a group of spectators...who instead of helping or meeting the man were self-absorbed with the viewfinder staring at their phone.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

burgrat said:


> I understand his frustration, but man that looks bad swatting at fans. As a sponsor I would tell him to chill a bit. I can picture some fan suing for property damage or assault if that was in 'Merica. Not that they don't deserve it for being so idiotic.


The British overall have been awesome spectators, and the roads have been immaculate.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

PJay said:


> The British overall have been awesome spectators, and the roads have been immaculate.


Yesterday they were...today the "HI MOM I'M ON TV!!!" idiots are out on course. And worse, they're obsessed with filming the camera bikes (srsly, the smartphones are filming the convoy passing not the riders most of the time) going by on their viewfinders and not thinking one iota of being a traffic obstacle


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

Marc said:


> Yea...but at the same time compared to yesterday the number of people oblivious to the entire world holding their cellphone cam is just silly. Hell, Kittel just flatted in front of a group of spectators...who instead of helping or meeting the man were self-absorbed with the viewfinder staring at their phone.


I was at Pool just outside Otley in the North Leeds suburbs yesterday and we had a guy stood the best part of a metre out into a narrowish road on a bit of a bend holding up his iPad to get shots. He was told not to infringe on more than one occasion by the stewards before the race came through and ignored them each time. I have a shot of him not 2 feet from one of the support vehicles as the race came through. 
I rode to Harrogate for the finish with my Nikon in my backpack, got a decent sightline among the crazy crowds just to have some middle aged woman squeeze in and wave her iphone in my face every time a publicity van came up the hill through town. I decided not to bother reason with her or explain that a shitty iphone was gonna get her nothing worth looking at. I saw the final sprint on the big screen on The Stray and was able to get out of town for the ride back to York. 

Nice to see T.V. Tommy gurning a little on the ascent of Holme Moss.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Marc said:


> Yea...but at the same time compared to yesterday the number of people oblivious to the entire world holding their cellphone cam is just silly. Hell, Kittel just flatted in front of a group of spectators...who instead of helping or meeting the man were self-absorbed with the viewfinder staring at their phone.


I love the idiots holding up an iPad or huge tablet. Why even come to the race, you aren't watching it!


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

The NBC coverage is about 60%, 20% "interest stories", and 20% actual racing. It's ridiculous. 
I think will will DVR it and watch lately in the day from now on.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

burgrat said:


> I love the idiots holding up an iPad or huge tablet. Why even come to the race, you aren't watching it!


Yea I was in France in the fall last year...and the number of people lugging an iPad around for photo touristing was silly. Although I did have to give it to them...stealing an iPad someone has lugged around all day at Versailles without someone noticing is pretty hard.



burgrat said:


> The NBC coverage is about 60%, 20% "interest stories", and 20% actual racing. It's ridiculous.
> I think will will DVR it and watch lately in the day from now on.


So same as awlays then. Makes me glad I didn't pay for it

Eurosport has been quite good...at least most of the fluff that is official they've at worst done split screen. Otherwise the pre-race interviews are a tiny picture beside the race still going on near full-size. $5/month VPN+ paid Eurosport streaming FTW...HD most of the time although peak watching times breaks down a bit.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

burgrat said:


> The NBC coverage is about 60%, 20% "interest stories", and 20% actual racing. It's ridiculous.
> I think will will DVR it and watch lately in the day from now on.



Got Phil and Paul doing their thing on British t.v. Wonderful coverage of the race from the overhead and the bikes. The veteran French race commentator was laying it on a bit thick for 'Les Yorkshires' yesterday.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

Just hoping the racing is over before my sister calls me for Sunday dinner. Roland just about to be caught near the Jenkin Rd climb. All set up with 5 miles to go for a another sprint at the end.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

Froome put down a marker by passing Contador at the top of Jenkin Rd.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

Nibali going for the win, he got a jump on Sagan.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

sir duke said:


> Nibali going for the win, he got a jump on Sagan.


Ha!

Froome was too busy looking at everyone esle's stems waiting for them to pace him rather than flooring it. Well done Nibali.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

Yay! The shark has bitten back. Forza, Nibali!


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

One of the best stages, or best days of racing ever. :thumbsup:

Too bad they didn't have a speedometer display, they were flat out fast.
Saxo didn't look good, four guys went out the back on the second last hill. Astana looked very good, plenty of support for Nibali on the hills.
Cannondale looked very good too.
Europcar all making faces for the cameras, cut it out!

Great win by Nibali. Everyone else was marking Sagan. They should have chased Nibali instead of looking at each other!


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

Marc said:


> Ha!
> 
> Froome was too busy looking at everyone esle's stems waiting for them to pace him rather than flooring it. Well done Nibali.


Froome was looking at his own stem when he passed me this morning in York. Amazing to see Contador dancing on his peddles going up a backstreet n the middle of Sheffield. Admittedly Sheffield is probably the hilliest large city in the UK.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

sir duke said:


> Froome was looking at his own stem when he passed me this morning in York. Amazing to see Contador dancing on his peddles going up a backstreet n the middle of Sheffield. Admittedly Sheffield is probably the hilliest large city in the UK.


Is there a law against drinking in public in UK?

The 2014 TdF drinking game requires sipping whenever Froome is looking at a bike stem.


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

Great and exciting Stage. Congratulations to Nibali!


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Marc said:


> The 2014 TdF drinking game requires sipping whenever Froome is looking at a bike stem.


If that's the case, you might as well set up an IV of alcohol.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

Marc said:


> Is there a law against drinking in public in UK?


Not up in Yorkshire there isnt...especially when the sun is out. I saw plenty of pints being downed yesterday in Harrogate. I stuck to cranberry juice and a cappucino.


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

What a terrific race today! The grueling course reminded me a bit of L-B-L or Amstel Gold: sharp, short climbs, nasty narrow roads, industrial settings at the end, tough ramp at the lead in. Sagan looked like he blew up after chasing down one too many attacks, I thought he had the stage in the bag. Froome and Contador both look intimidating, lots of mind games. Tejay looked sharp as well, please that both he and Talansky finished with the leaders. No big crashes. Perfect.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

Hiro11 said:


> What a terrific race today! The grueling course reminded me a bit of L-B-L or Amstel Gold: sharp, short climbs, nasty narrow roads, industrial settings at the end, tough ramp at the lead in. Sagan looked like he blew up after chasing down one too many attacks, I thought he had the stage in the bag. Froome and Contador both look intimidating, lots of mind games. Tejay looked sharp as well, please that both he and Talansky finished with the leaders. No big crashes. Perfect.


Great racing indeed across some gorgeous landscape. Sagan was having trouble with his bike two thirds in and had to be paced back to the peloton but I don't think that affected the outcome; he stuck out like a sore thumb on the last climb, it was really a question of who had enough puff to go round him and gun it up the climb. Gutsy effort by Nibali. 

I wouldn't mind betting Yorkshire features again in future tours. The support was huge, the sun shone and the parcours through little villages on narrow lanes kept it interesting. 

Big Bad Cav coming a cropper in his own backyard gave the peanut gallery on here something to wet their knickers over. I was thrilled to be there, well worth the journey over from Japan.


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## Rokh On (Oct 30, 2011)

Marc said:


> Camera spectator deserved to get hit by something other than a featherweight rider.


Jens mentioned in the post race today how bad it was. He even said that his elbow may have collided with more than one spectator because they were so close.


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

burgrat said:


> I love the idiots holding up an iPad or huge tablet. Why even come to the race, you aren't watching it!


Increasing levels of spectator cluelessness:
1. Crowding the side of the road
2. Jumping out just in front of riders to take a picture or wave a flag that no one recognizes
3. Jumping out just in front of riders to take a picture with a comedically ridiculous looking full-sized tablet, preferably a first gen iPad in a HUGE case.
4. Running alongside the riders on a climb
5. Running alongside the riders on a climb wearing a fake pro kit, mankini or other "hilarious" outfit (potential exception: Didi Senft)
6. Physical contact with a rider
7.
8.
9.
10.
Infinity. Running alongside the riders on a climb wearing a fake World Champion's rainbow jersey, pushing a rider challenging for the stage over on the steepest part of the Zoncolan then not helping him to get going again. Later seen getting in Quintana's face, having not learned his lesson.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

I was just able to watch the final hour and a half, after attending church.
That was great. I am feeling like I am getting my $30-worth from buying the NBC coverage.

Nibali timed that very well - but is he peaking early? (I guess it is obligatory for someone to say that.)


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

One other point for us Yanks: Grandpappy Horner riding tough! He was right in the mix there on a stage that really didn't suit him. He helped Costa out significantly. This guy was almost killed by a car just a few months ago and he's my age! Awesome.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

That was just fantastic racing today :thumbsup: 
They were going at it so hard I got mixed up for a sec. and thought the 10km point was the last 1km 

I think it's going to be a great tour. Will miss Cav though.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

I can't wait for stage 5 on the cobbles. I think there are a lot of guys willing to throw down this year, trying to gain time on Froome at every opportunity. This should be a very good Tour.


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

I thought that run-in to the Jenkins Hill climb was great--then the gut buster and the real finish after.

Nice to see TJ mark Froome like a pro, when Froome made his effort on Jenkins...

Gutsy move by Niboli--Sagan looked surprised that no one was going to lead him out--cool that one young guy got away with a move that only worked because the other young guy hesitated...

I was only in Sheffield once--bought my Mercian from a young guy whose dad raced in the Milk Race BITD--I suspect he was out watching with the rest of Sheffield.


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## Rich Gibson (Jul 26, 2013)

Rokh On said:


> Jens mentioned in the post race today how bad it was. He even said that his elbow may have collided with more than one spectator because they were so close.


At one point a guy from Garmon was slapping phones from the hands of people who were pushing them in his face. Way to go! How about that guy in the red shirt who was floored by the OPQS rider?

Rich


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Rich Gibson said:


> At one point a guy from Garmon was slapping phones from the hands of people who were pushing them in his face. Way to go! How about that guy in the red shirt who was floored by the OPQS rider?
> 
> Rich


When people are looking through their viewfinder or at their screen, they are unaware of their immediate surroundings and the speed at which those guys are coming. It appears that at least 50% of the spectators have a phone, iPad(!), or camera trying to get a picture. That's a bad mix IMO.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Friend zoned!


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

spade2you said:


> Friend zoned!



Oh, slammed  Nibbles get's no love from the ladies!


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

Did she rake her fingernails across his neck there? :lol:


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