# Pedals, Shoes, Adaptors...



## bdok (Jun 21, 2011)

Thanks in advance for your patience and assistance...have only been riding for 3 weeks.

OK, so bought a new to me Fuji road bike a few weeks ago. Was fortunate enough to buy from a buddy with the same size shoe. Borrowed his MTB shoes for the first couple weeks as they had the cleats and he could not find his road shoes. He had eggbeaters on the bike and with the MTB shoes, it was a pretty good fit for me.

Now that I bought the bike and he found the road shoes, it's a different story. The road shoes are Shimano R098A made for SPD-SL only (not two hole). With an adapter on and then the eggbeater clips, it is not at all comfortable.

So...what are your thoughts 1) Change out the pedals to a true road pedal (Shimano 105's, etc.) that use three-hole cleats or 2) New shoes with two-hole pattern to accept eggbeater cleats.

Like the eggbeater's, but since it is the only clipless system I've tried, can't say I would not like something just as much or better. Just not looking forward to any new learning curve with new pedals.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

What's uncomfortable about it?

I'd be inclined to blame the shoe. At least, if it's a foot thing. If it's something else, like a knee or ankle thing, it might be a set up issue.


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## ProdigalCyclist (May 3, 2011)

I used those same adapters to use Dura Ace SPD-R pedals with SIDI Genius 5.5 shoes. I dumped the SPD-R pedals and got a pair of Look Keo Carbon Max pedals... the reason for this was to get a larger pedaling platform (and it did help) a bonus was that I could throw those adapters in the trash can.

As for the spacers, specifically, I hated them. They made (at least for me) a lot harder to clip in due to the fact that when you tip the pedal with your toe the actual cleat is about 2CM lower than you think it is. Now with the Egg Beaters I realize you don't have to tip the pedals, so this may not be as much of an issue. But I (personally) would shy away from the Egg Beaters due to the fact that they provide about the absolute smallest pedaling platform of all the current pedals.

Some think that small pedaling platform does not contribute to Hot Foot issues... but for me it did. My wider pedals have made a WORLD of difference. (and Eggbeaters are even smaller than the pedals I was having problems with)


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## bdok (Jun 21, 2011)

ProdigalCyclist said:


> I used those same adapters to use Dura Ace SPD-R pedals with SIDI Genius 5.5 shoes. I dumped the SPD-R pedals and got a pair of Look Keo Carbon Max pedals... the reason for this was to get a larger pedaling platform (and it did help) a bonus was that I could throw those adapters in the trash can.
> 
> As for the spacers, specifically, I hated them. They made (at least for me) a lot harder to clip in due to the fact that when you tip the pedal with your toe the actual cleat is about 2CM lower than you think it is. Now with the Egg Beaters I realize you don't have to tip the pedals, so this may not be as much of an issue. But I (personally) would shy away from the Egg Beaters due to the fact that they provide about the absolute smallest pedaling platform of all the current pedals.
> 
> Some think that small pedaling platform does not contribute to Hot Foot issues... but for me it did. My wider pedals have made a WORLD of difference. (and Eggbeaters are even smaller than the pedals I was having problems with)


You're pretty much right on in terms of my issues. Rode for the third time with this combo last night and it would take forever to clip in. With the MTB shoes it was easy, but with the adapter no so.

So, you like the Look pedals? Seems like the Keo Easy is in the same price range as the Shimano 105. Is there any real difference, advantage, etc?


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## silkroad (Jul 8, 2011)

skip the keo easy, get the keo classics.


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## ProdigalCyclist (May 3, 2011)

bdok said:


> You're pretty much right on in terms of my issues. Rode for the third time with this combo last night and it would take forever to clip in. With the MTB shoes it was easy, but with the adapter no so.
> 
> So, you like the Look pedals? Seems like the Keo Easy is in the same price range as the Shimano 105. Is there any real difference, advantage, etc?



The thing I've heard about the Keo Easy is they tend to be extremely easy to clip out of... I.E. people tend to clip out of them whe they DON'T want to like when they are climbing etc... that's what I've heard, I've never used the Keo Easy.

But check out Ebay... I got a brand new set of Keo Max Carbon for $85.00 after shipping (I got a pretty good deal on them, couldn't actually believe I got them that low) But you can find Look Keo Classic or Keo Sprint on Ebay for Buy It Now for $75.00 new in box (and some of them are free shipping at that price) The only reason I wanted the Max was because it's wider, a buddy of mine has had Keo Classics on his bike for a few years and loves them.

The difference between the lower end Shimanos and the Looks is the Looks tend to (normally) be quite a bit lighter. Some people don't like Look because they don't spin a freely... but now that I have them, once you get used to the fact they don't spin hella easy, I think it makes them easier to clip in to (at least for me) because if you tap them to get your toe in, they don't flop all the way around their axis and make you have to tap them again.


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## bdok (Jun 21, 2011)

"Looks" like I've got a good recommendation (sorry for the pun). One last comment, the Nashbar Izoard Road Bike Pedals for $45 seem to get great reviews and many reviewers compare them to the Keo Classics. Anyone out there try these or for $30 more stick with Keo Classics on ebay?


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Buy the typical three hole - two hole adapters, or buy the Crank Brothers Road Cleats (that's what I'd do if I had CB pedals like you).










If you really want to go with a different pedal system (no strong reason to do that, but if you do), you should look into Time RXS pedals. Best weight/cost trade off I'm aware of, they have a very nice float design, and as walkable as any road cleat.


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## silkroad (Jul 8, 2011)

bdok said:


> "Looks" like I've got a good recommendation (sorry for the pun). One last comment, the Nashbar Izoard Road Bike Pedals for $45 seem to get great reviews and many reviewers compare them to the Keo Classics. Anyone out there try these or for $30 more stick with Keo Classics on ebay?


if youre going to get this, get the forte cr150, its the same thing plus performance is selling them for $34( plus tax and shipping if youre getting it online).


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## Countchristo (Jul 13, 2011)

I have just bought a 2012 Giant Defy 2 as my first ride after quite a while of looking and it comes with Shimano R540 clipless pedals as standard. My question is will I notice a big difference if I replace these As far as clip in clip out goes or is it more of a weight thing?


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## ProdigalCyclist (May 3, 2011)

Countchristo said:


> I have just bought a 2012 Giant Defy 2 as my first ride after quite a while of looking and it comes with Shimano R540 clipless pedals as standard. My question is will I notice a big difference if I replace these As far as clip in clip out goes or is it more of a weight thing?


The R540 pedals will be fine. The difference as you go up in price is the R540s are a bit heavier. The bearings on the spindle aren't as good. And they have a non-replaceable contact patch made of plastic (intead of steel) and they are quite a bit more narrow than the 105, Ultegra, and Dura Ace counter part. A wider platform is more comfortable for some, but in terms of actually clipping in and clipping out... they should all be about the same, they all have adjustable tension on the clip that holds in the cleat.

The differences are visible...
R540 pedal









Shimano 105 Pedal









Ultegra Pedal


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ProdigalCyclist said:


> The R540 pedals will be fine. The difference as you go up in price is the R540s are a bit heavier. The bearings on the spindle aren't as good. And *they have a non-replaceable contact patch made of plastic (intead of steel) and they are quite a bit more narrow than the 105, Ultegra, and Dura Ace counter part*. A wider platform is more comfortable for some, but in terms of actually clipping in and clipping out... they should all be about the same, they all have adjustable tension on the clip that holds in the cleat.


The two bolded statements are incorrect. The rubber plates are replaceable (about $6/ pair) and the platform on the R540 is exactly the same size as all other Shimano SPD-SL pedals, as are the cleats. 

FWIW the weight 'penalty' is about 8 grams (over pd-5700's).


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## ProdigalCyclist (May 3, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> The two bolded statements are incorrect. The rubber plates are replaceable (about $6/ pair) and the platform on the R540 is exactly the same size as all other Shimano SPD-SL pedals, as are the cleats.
> 
> FWIW the weight 'penalty' is about 8 grams (over pd-5700's).


Ok... the plastic pieces are replaceable but the replacement pads don't stick (at least in the experience of the Shop Owner I spoke to about those pedals said as much, and he's a friend of mine so he wasn't just trying to sell me the more expensive pedals)... go ahead and split hairs.

And YES the 105, Ultegra, and Dura Ace platforms are wider... don't take it from me... The Shimano website says 

*QUOTE: •Extra-wide platform for a much more efficient transfer of power. *

And when you actually look at the picture that's not just marketing speak you can see for yourself that the 105, Ultegra, and Dura Ace pedals ARE, in fact, wider.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ProdigalCyclist said:


> Ok... the plastic pieces are replaceable but the replacement pads don't stick (at least in the experience of the Shop Owner I spoke to about those pedals said as much, and he's a friend of mine so he wasn't just trying to sell me the more expensive pedals)... go ahead and split hairs.
> 
> And YES the 105, Ultegra, and Dura Ace platforms are wider... don't take it from me... The Shimano website says
> 
> ...


JMO, but correcting a posters inaccuracies is hardly splitting hairs.

As far as the pedal platform size, pics can deceive. It's exactly the same. The _shape_ of the pedals differ. Shimano's statement is nothing more than market-speak, offering buyers 'reasons' to spend more. There are differences, but that's not one.

Here's an ad for the plates. Notice that they're interchangeable for 6600/ 5600 and R540 pedals (and no the current platforms are no different than the previous versions).
http://cgi.ebay.com/Shimano-Pedal-Body-Cover-Plate-6610-R540-5600-2-pak-/220394542404


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## ProdigalCyclist (May 3, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> JMO, but correcting a posters inaccuracies is hardly splitting hairs.
> 
> As far as the pedal platform size, pics can deceive. It's exactly the same. The _shape_ of the pedals differ. Shimano's statement is nothing more than market-speak, offering buyers 'reasons' to spend more. There are differences, but that's not one.
> 
> ...


Ok... as for the replaceability on non-replaceablity of the pads. I'm sorry but if when you replace something... and it falls off because it wont adhere properly... IMO that is NOT replaceable. And then you have consider you're paying $20.00 for pads (that don't work) to extend the life of $60.00 pedals.

You're right... they are Technically replaceable... But in the real world replaceing those stupid plastic pads is not cost effective. Therefore I don't consider them replaceable.

And the pads are interchangable with the OLD.... NARROWER design of the Ultegra (etc) pedals. Because the R540 pedals are based on the OLD design of the 105, Ultegra, Dura Ace SPD-SL pedals. The New IMPROVED design of 105, Ultegra, Dura Ace pedals is what you saw in the pictures I provided earlier... The two biggest improvements to the design were a Stainless Steel wear plate (that replaces with screws insted of adhesive) and a WIDER DESIGN.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ProdigalCyclist said:


> Ok... as for the replaceability on non-replaceablity of the pads. I'm sorry but if when you replace something... and it falls off because it wont adhere properly... IMO that is NOT replaceable. And then you have consider you're paying $20.00 for pads (that don't work) to extend the life of $60.00 pedals.
> 
> You're right... they are Technically replaceable... But in the real world replaceing those stupid plastic pads is not cost effective. Therefore I don't consider them replaceable.
> 
> And the pads are interchangable with the OLD.... NARROWER design of the Ultegra (etc) pedals. Because the R540 pedals are based on the OLD design of the 105, Ultegra, Dura Ace SPD-SL pedals. The New IMPROVED design of 105, Ultegra, Dura Ace pedals is what you saw in the pictures I provided earlier... The two biggest improvements to the design were a Stainless Steel wear plate (that replaces with screws insted of adhesive) and a WIDER DESIGN.


One more time...

The plates are replaceable. 

The cleats are the same for all SPD-SL pedal systems, no matter the version. Since they interface with the platform, it (too) is the same size. It doesn't matter if the _shape_ of the _pedal _changes any, the interface (cleat/ platform) remains the same.


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## ProdigalCyclist (May 3, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> One more time...
> 
> The plates are replaceable.
> 
> The cleats are the same for all SPD-SL pedal systems, no matter the version. Since they interface with the platform, it (too) is the same size. *It doesn't matter if the shape of the pedal changes any, the interface (cleat/ platform) remains the same*.


The bold part is just totally wrong.

The plates that you use to replace the origionals are JUNK. In fact... the plastic pads are JUNK to begin with... that's precisely why they changed the design and went with a stainless steel pad. And if you think it's a good idea to pay 1/3 of the cost of buying a brand new set of pedals to TRY and extend the life of a pair of already worn (bearings) pedals, with a set of pads that wont stick on... then be my guest. But it's not practical.

And the fact that they use the same cleat has nothing to do with this conversation... Because the WIDER pedal contacts more of the same cleat than the older version did. Just because they use the same cleat does not mean the new pedals can't contact MORE of the same style cleat.... which they do.... hence the reason they are WIDER. Capiche?


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## ProdigalCyclist (May 3, 2011)

Look... I just freaking went through this about pedals for myself.

I was having problems with my own feet getting "Hot Foot" and I just got through figuring out the differences between pedals. I just got through talking to guys at three different bike shops and spending about an hour in my friends shop shooting the bull and talking about pedals... I've also read the reviews and studied the reasons why this pedal is wider and that pedal isn't... and which cleat has the best track record and what will/should work better for me. I've held the R540, the 105, Ultegra, Dura Ace, Speed Play Zero, Keo Classic, Keo Sprint, Keo Max in my hand... and don't tell me that the R540 is not wider than the 105, Ultegra, and Dura Ace pedals... I've seen it. I've clipped the cleats in the pedals. I've looked to see the differences and they ARE THERE.

The R540 is NOT as wide as the (new) 105, Ultegra, or Dura Ace... in terms of out right width AND in terms of "cleat interface" It's a fact. You can argue that all you want... just remember that people used to argue the Earth is flat too.


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## bdok (Jun 21, 2011)

Camilo said:


> Buy the typical three hole - two hole adapters, or buy the Crank Brothers Road Cleats (that's what I'd do if I had CB pedals like you).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmm...I had not seen those before. Just when I thought I knew what I was going to I get more information to consider. Appreciate the input.


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

bdok said:


> Hmm...I had not seen those before. Just when I thought I knew what I was going to I get more information to consider. Appreciate the input.


To me, those cleats are one of the reasons to consider a Crank Brothers pedal system if you have more than one bike. An easy way to make your system compatable among your bikes and shoes. With those cleats on your road shoes and regular CB cleats on your MTB shoes, and any of the various varieties of CB pedals on your variious bikes, depending on which pedal you like for whatever way you use those bikes.... You can use either shoe on any of your bikes and not worry about it. without having to use those thick, ugly traditional 3 hole adapters and pontoons on the bottom of your road shoes.

If I had a bike already equipped with CB pedals like you do, that's what I'd do (I've already got a bunch of SPD compatable pedals so it would cost me a bunch to change now).


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## Doug P (Jun 27, 2011)

So are the 105's good pedals? Just getting started and clipless pedals are next on my wish list.


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## Bones519 (May 7, 2010)

Is the Keo 2 MAX wider than Ultegra?


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## velocanman (Jul 15, 2011)

I would save the Eggbeaters for your mountain bike and get some SPD-SL or Look Keo pedals.

I am partial to the Shimano pedals. Some of my friends that ride Keo love them, too. I'm a big buy so I stick with the alloy pedals.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Doug P said:


> *So are the 105's good pedals?* Just getting started and clipless pedals are next on my wish list.


IMO the 105's (PD5700's) offer the best price/ performance balance in the Shimano SPD-SL line. 

Nashbar has competitive pricing and liberal return policies, but there may be other (cheaper) sources.
http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/SubCategory_10053_10052_202531_-1_202330_202363


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

If I didn't want a little more float and a narrower tread than Time ATACs provide, I'd use the same pedals on all my bikes.

I think it's much more about the shoe. Sooner or later, I'll have to do another round of research and see if someone's making a pedal that I can use for cyclocross and that I like on the road.


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## bdok (Jun 21, 2011)

Thanks for all the advice. Keo Classics won out in the end. Put them on last night and took my first (short) ride this morning. I like the feel better than the eggbeaters and not too much trouble getting in/out (practice will help).


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

Bones519 said:


> Is the Keo 2 MAX wider than Ultegra?


The Keo 2 Max contact patch is the same width as the 105/Ultegra/Dura Ace pedals.


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

ProdigalCyclist said:


> The R540 is NOT as wide as the (new) 105, Ultegra, or Dura Ace... in terms of out right width AND in terms of "cleat interface" It's a fact.


If it makes you feel any better, you are correct on this, the contact patch of the 540s is more narrow, though the share the same cleat.


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## ProdigalCyclist (May 3, 2011)

xjbaylor said:


> If it makes you feel any better, you are correct on this, the contact patch of the 540s is more narrow, though the share the same cleat.


Well... it doesn't make me feel any better because I always knew that to be a fact. I know they share the same cleat... but just because they share the same cleat does not mean they have the same contact patch (which is what the other poster was claiming)

The Keo Easy and the Keo Max have the same cleats as well... but that doesn't mean the Keo Max contact patch is the same as the Keo Easy either.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

xjbaylor said:


> If it makes you feel any better, you are correct on this,* the contact patch of the 540s is more narrow, though the share the same cleat*.


I'd be interested in your substantiating this beyond merely stating it, keeping in mind that I stated that the pedal _shape_ is irrelevent. Only the platform/ cleat interface matters. 

Since the cleat and pedal platform interlock exactly the same on all SPD-SL models, I think you're going to be hard pressed to prove me wrong, but I'm certainly open to the possibility.


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