# Surly Pacer vs. older steel frame??



## bicyclemech1 (Mar 29, 2009)

Loved the '98 schwinn peleton I sold a couple winters ago. Currently on a Scandium Salsa Campe'on.

I'd like to get another steel frame from CL or ebay etc. I've seen Surly Pacer, and Soma frames in budget priced new steel. Also lots of old 531 Treks and tons of older Italians in a price range can afford.

Will newer steel be better than old?
1.125 headtube might be nicer for a possible fork swap, but necessary ?

Any input is greatly appreciated

TIA, 
Gregory


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

*Fork swap.*

Been riding a Pacer for about three years now and just recently swapped out the unforgiving and heavy Pacer steel fork for a $90 Nashbar 1-1/8" carbon fork (w/aluminum steerer). Took about 400 gram off the Pacer, but more importantly, noticeably improved the Pacer's relatively harsh ride on rough surfaces. The Nashbar fork has almost identical rake and blade length, so no handling change. The brake mounting hole-to-rim distance got a little shorter, but moving the brake pads from all the way down to almost all the way up took care of that (older Campy Centaur brakes).

Edit: I lost the Pacer's famous tire clearance in front with the fork swap, so keep that in mind. As to new vs. old steel: the stout 4130 steel tubing used with the Pacer frame has been around forever. Nothing special, nothing bad about it either.

/w


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

I don't think basic new steel bikes have anything on an old 531 or SL frame. The new frames are special because of the newer tubing - which Surly, Soma, etc don't use.


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## bicyclemech1 (Mar 29, 2009)

*Search for an 853?*

And upgrade the fork to a-headset/threadless?
My old Peleton was 853 main with a 1" threadless carbon fork. 
I think I will keep searching for something in this era.
Newer generation steel from late '90s to now.

Anyone have a Schwinn Peleton in 58 they want to sell? :rolleyes5:


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

consider geometry... the older you get (like 80s steel treks), the slacker the sta and longer the tt. sometimes it can work, you can get the saddle pushed forward into the right position and the tt won't be too long, but sometimes it doesn't if you need a steeper angle (even w/ no steback post) and/or shorter tt

hey wim, is the a-c the same on those 2 forks?


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## raymonda (Jan 31, 2007)

bicyclemech1 said:


> Loved the '98 schwinn peleton I sold a couple winters ago. Currently on a Scandium Salsa Campe'on.
> 
> I'd like to get another steel frame from CL or ebay etc. I've seen Surly Pacer, and Soma frames in budget priced new steel. Also lots of old 531 Treks and tons of older Italians in a price range can afford.
> 
> ...


Depends on who is making them. However, I would go with older steel, NOS, or close because the value and craftmanship is usually better....lugs, fillet braze, etc.

That being said.........I have 2 NOS 55-56 frame.....I've been waiting for my camera to post for sale but here they are:

Moser Leader AX-- silver fillet braze and absolutely beautiful.............$950.00

DeRosa Pimato EL----lugged--white with box crown fork. NOS it was built up but never hit the road. It was purchased by a shop for the 9 speed Shimano when that was a new groupo. $1,200


They may be more than you want to spend but these are the best of the steel frame. Both have forks and are stunning examples of what steel can be.

When my camera comes I will be posting them in the for sale section.


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## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

I agree. I have an old 80s lugged Schwinn Prologue with Tange Prestige and a new non-lugged Soma with the same tubeset-- and oddly the old Schwinn comes in significantly lighter. It is a fantastic bike--- I refer to it as a Japanese Paramount. The geometry is also perfect.

The problem, as I see it--- back in the day, steel was a top shelf material, and was built to the highest quality. Now it is probably the easiest material to outsource to some no-name east Asian builder (which is what Surly, Soma, etc. all do)-- unless you want to go totally custom from a boutique (which will cost a fortune). There are all sorts of used frames out there in excellent shape in steel. Only issue might be cold setting the rear to fit a modern wheel.



raymonda said:


> Depends on who is making them. However, I would go with older steel, NOS, or close because the value and craftmanship is usually better....lugs, fillet braze, etc.
> 
> That being said.........I have 2 NOS 55-56 frame.....I've been waiting for my camera to post for sale but here they are:
> 
> ...


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

FatTireFred said:


> hey wim, is the a-c the same on those 2 forks?


Pacer fork is 371 mm, Nashbar is 370 mm.


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

Still, the Pacer is a good deal for a new frame. Plus if you sell it you'll get most of your money back. Surlys, especially the CC, have outrageously high resale value.


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## raymonda (Jan 31, 2007)

filtersweep said:


> I agree. I have an old 80s lugged Schwinn Prologue with Tange Prestige and a new non-lugged Soma with the same tubeset-- and oddly the old Schwinn comes in significantly lighter. It is a fantastic bike--- I refer to it as a Japanese Paramount. The geometry is also perfect.
> 
> I have a 88 Prologue and it weighs 1700 grams, while the fork weighs 680 grams. As lite as they come today. It is a 50cm though but still very lite. The lug work and fork on the Prologue is very good indeed and right up there with bikes costing way more. I think there is a 55cm on ebay that the last I saw had a $120 bid on it. The pant is rough but the frame looks to be in good condition.


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## arshak (Jun 13, 2005)

here you go. Italian construct. US paint = Torelli 
http://cgi.ebay.com/2010-Torelli-Ni...Road_Bikes&hash=item3cb1568ec4#ht_1051wt_1139

86 Schwinn:
http://cgi.ebay.com/86-SCHWINN-Lugg...=Road_Bikes&hash=item588a3d1a2c#ht_698wt_1139

Lemond:
http://cgi.ebay.com/LEMOND-GAN-TEAM...oad_Bikes&hash=item35acffc0cc#ht_13572wt_1139


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## raymonda (Jan 31, 2007)

arshak said:


> here you go. Italian construct. US paint = Torelli
> http://cgi.ebay.com/2010-Torelli-Ni...Road_Bikes&hash=item3cb1568ec4#ht_1051wt_1139
> 
> 86 Schwinn:
> ...


With all the beautiful Schwinns available on ebay you picked the most beat up and cheapest model. That looks like it has lived its last 10 years chained to a stop sign.

That LeMond is really nice. I bet it will go for around $500 or more.


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## raymonda (Jan 31, 2007)

Here is an 87 Super Sport NOS. for $270, A bit big but maybe in your size. I had one that I had painted purple. I hated the magenta color. It rode nice. It is Columbus Tenax, or Columbus SP in this size. Not as lite as the Prologue but still a great frame!!!!!! I think it weighs around 2000 grams or so. The lug work is nice. However the BB shell is just standard. It is not as pretty as the Paramount or Prologue's BB shell.

BTW the second one is my Prologue.


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## Reynolds531 (Nov 8, 2002)

double post


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## Reynolds531 (Nov 8, 2002)

Lugged steel Treks are very nice. I have a 1987 Trek 560, Reynolds 531 that is a great blend of quickness and stability, stiffness and comfort. Great condition frame, fork and headset delivered to my door for about $100. Best thing fore me is that it comes as a 25.5" frame that fits perfect.

Even the low end Trek 330 and 400 are good. I bought a 330 frame , fork, headset to build a bike for my son. very impressive quality.


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## bicyclemech1 (Mar 29, 2009)

I'm watching the Torelli.
I need a 58cm
About $300 shipped is my limit. The Scandium Salsa will probably bid to about the same.

Treasure Hunt!!


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## dirttorpedo (Feb 20, 2009)

My sense is that the Pacer is built on the Randoneer/sport touring line where weight was less of a consideration over strength so it may not be fair to compare a Pacer to a high end racing bike where the tube sets are so thin they seem to get dings fairly easily whereas my old 80's Norco was pretty much bomb proof. Maybe you should be comparing it to a Rivendale roadeo or the Soma racing frame - the smoothie?


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

dirttorpedo said:


> My sense is that the Pacer is built on the Randoneer/sport touring line where weight was less of a consideration over strength so it may not be fair to compare a Pacer to a high end racing bike where the tube sets are so thin they seem to get dings fairly easily whereas my old 80's Norco was pretty much bomb proof. Maybe you should be comparing it to a Rivendale roadeo or the Soma racing frame - the smoothie?


Agreed, it really isn't fair to compare mass market Pacers to the Schwinn. 

If wim is still on board how much tire clearance did you loose?


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

This thread is from 2 1/2 years ago, if anyone noticed.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

cs1 said:


> If wim is still on board how much tire clearance did you loose?


You mean "still alive."  Nominal 25 mm tire was the limit with that 2010 Nashbar carbon fork. I think an actual 27.0 mm tire would have fit, but no more than that.


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

SystemShock said:


> This thread is from 2 1/2 years ago, if anyone noticed.


We noticed but it's still relevant.


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## Love Commander (Aug 20, 2009)

For whatever it's worth, I'm running a IRD Mosaic 57 fork on my Pacer w/ 28mm tires. 378mm a-c height, slacks the geometry a little, but I personally can't tell a difference. As wim said, 2.5 years ago, the Pacer fork is a beast.


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