# Campy 10-speed rear derailleur capacity, and shimano cassette compatibility questions



## Speed_Metal (Feb 9, 2004)

I am running a 50/34 crankset, and need a medium cage rear derailleur, if i want to run a 29/13 cassette.

i was wondering if anybody had real-world experience running a cassette larger than a 29-tooth (32 or 34) with a campy rear derailleur? and if so, is a medium cage big enough, or do i need to go long cage?

as well, i was wondering if a shimano 10-speed cassette is workable with the campy rear derailleur. and what chain brand works best with this combination?
i've read accounts of people pairing the two with little to no problems. and people saying the R.D. needs some amount of modification.

this is for a cyclocross bike


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Lots of questions here.

The takeup capacity of a short cage 10-spd RD is 32. 50-34=16 and 29-13=16. And 16+16=32. So no you don't need a medium cage.

Cage length is nothing to do with clearance. All Campy RD's will have the same clearance. Clearance is related to hanger length as well as RD so the answer is "it depends on the frame" That being said, Campy sold a 12-30 Centaur cassette that worked just fine with the short cage RD. You can run up to 32T cogs in the 11-spd world (which is a whole other topic, but not what you asked).

In the 10-speed world, campy and shimano have different cog spacings, different RD actuation ratios, and the shifters have different cable pull per shift. Workarounds and mix ups are possible but it's not really a great situation.


----------



## Speed_Metal (Feb 9, 2004)

ahh, thanks for your response and clarification on clearance being a hanger issue.
guess i don't have the option to go bigger than the 30-tooth cassette


----------



## canamdad (Jun 19, 2005)

Wolf Tooth makes a rear derailleur dropout extender that gives you more clearance. RoadLink ? wolftoothcomponents.com
Do a google search on it. As I remember, Fit Werks bike shop in VT did a favourable review on it- they actually installed it and tested it for a couple of different combinations. If you decide to go the Shimano route, you can use a jtek converter to make it work with Campag levers.


----------



## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

I'll be using Campagnolo Veloce crankset/front DR/and Rr DR with a Shimano cassette.

Will I have any issues using a Shimano cassette with said Campagnolo driveline?

Which chain brand would work with said driveline; Campagnolo or Shimano?


FWIW; this groupset will be going on a vintage frameset (1986 Cannondale SR900) with DT shifters.


Thanks!


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

cda 455 said:


> I'll be using Campagnolo Veloce crankset/front DR/and Rr DR with a Shimano cassette.
> 
> Will I have any issues using a Shimano cassette with said Campagnolo driveline?
> 
> ...


If shifters are in friction mode you could run almost any gears in back. In index mode it will not work well as Shimano and Campy cog spacing is different.


----------



## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

bikerjulio said:


> If shifters are in friction mode you could run almost any gears in back. In index mode it will not work well as Shimano and Campy cog spacing is different.


Friction mode = DT shifters

Index mode = brake shifters

Correct?


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

cda 455 said:


> Friction mode = DT shifters
> 
> Index mode = brake shifters
> 
> Correct?


No not correct, not even close. Indexed downtube shifters came into being before 1990. I had 105 downtube 7-speed indexed shifters on a 1991 Miele for instance.

Some indexed shifters can be set in friction mode.


----------



## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

bikerjulio said:


> No not correct, not even close. Indexed downtube shifters came into being before 1990. I had 105 downtube 7-speed indexed shifters on a 1991 Miele for instance.
> 
> Some indexed shifters can be set in friction mode.


O.K.; I'm glad I ask many questions.


How do I know if I have friction or index, then  ?


BTW; thanks for the responses.


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

cda 455 said:


> How do I know if I have friction or index, then  ?


You're messing with me right?

Here's a hint - indexed shifters go click, click, click.

Some will provide a ring or some such which you can rotate to enter friction mode.

If it is in your possession you could post a picture.


----------



## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

bikerjulio said:


> You're messing with me right?
> 
> Here's a hint - indexed shifters go click, click, click.
> 
> ...


Negative on messing with you.


My cycling history:
1) 1971 to 1990 = single speed MTB'ing.

2) 1990 to 2015 = Gripshift shifting MTB'ing and commuting.

3) 2017 = Building first real roadbike (With DT shifters).

4) 2018/19 = Building first modern roadbike with brake-shifters.


Here's a pic of Silver shifters from RivBikes:


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

If that's all the parts then it's friction only. 

So, yes you will be able to shift OK.

What I'm not able to say is whether or not that will pull enough cable to work the RD you have through it's full range. You'd have to try it and see.


----------



## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

bikerjulio said:


> If that's all the parts then it's friction only.
> 
> So, yes you will be able to shift OK.
> 
> What I'm not able to say is whether or not that will pull enough cable to work the RD you have through it's full range. You'd have to try it and see.


As in friction shifting was for less speeds?


Yeah; I was just checking the 1990 Cannondale catalog.

Their friction shifters deal with only 6/7/8 speeds.


Darn. I may have to go full-Campagnolo (Veloce brakes/shifters).


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Not really. It's nothing to do with # of speeds. 

A 10-speed cassette is only slightly wider than an 8-speed.

It's simply cable pull and the actuation ratio of the RD.

A Veloce RD has a ratio of 1.5:1

The width of a Shimano 10-speed cassette is 35.6 mm, which coincidentally is what an 8-speed cassette was (within 0.6 mm).

So 35.6/1.5 = 23.7 mm of cable pull needed as a minimum.

So, I don't know if your shifter will pull 23.7 mm of cable. Why don't you try and see?


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Another way of estimating if your shifter will do the job is to measure the drum diameter where the cable sits.

It then becomes simple math.

Assume the shifter moves 150 deg in total, that's 150/360 = 0.42 of a revolution.

And knowing that we need around 25 mm of total cable pulled over that range, then one full revolution would have to pull 25/0.42 = 59.5 mm. ie the circumference would have to be that.

So the diameter would need to be 59.5/pi =59.5/3.142 = 19 mm minimum.

One I measured here (mid '90's) was approx 22 mm spool diameter. So that gives you an idea as to what you need.

I also measured an older '80's shifter and found the spool to be 16 mm dia - ie not enough.


----------



## hfc (Jan 24, 2003)

I will say cda you have chosen a challenging project for your first road bike build. There are numerous threads around regarding mixing Shimano and Campy drivetrains. As Julio noted, most of the issues for you are moot if you are using friction shifting. Sheldon is always a good resource for stuff like this.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/drivetrain-mixing.shtml

How many cogs is your rear cluster? I have never used friction shifting for more than 7 speed but like it fine on my older drive trains. I use KMC and SRAM 8 speed chains on my 6,7, and 8 speed bikes and like to use the appropriate OEM Campy chains on 9,10,11 speed Campy drive trains.

Also note that your 1986 frame, which had 6 or 7 speed drive train when new, will have 126 mm rear spacing. A 9 or 10 speed drive train requires 130 mm rear spacing (8 speed bikes were often 130, but sometimes 128). You will have to pull the rear triangle apart a little to get the rear wheel in and some people suggest this is a no no with an aluminum frame.


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Yes, I didn't fully pick up on the vintage of the donor bike. I wouldn't be spending too much on it BTW.

@cda we need to know what rear wheel and # speeds you are intending to use. If you have an original 6 or 7-speed wheel it will make things easier and cheaper. And more likely that your shifter will work OK with it.

A "compromise" 9-speed chain will work fine with a 10-speed crank and a 7-speed freehub.


----------



## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

You guys are rock stars :23: !!!
Thanks for providing so much info!


Disclaimer: THIS IS A RESEARCH IN-PROGRESS.


My wheelset is Shimano 36H 105 10sp hubs with Verocity Deep V rims (I'm a Clydesdale). 


What I've learned here is that my friction shifter setup probably won't handle said 10sp. 

6/7/8sp; yes. 9/10sp; probably not.


I just bought a 36H Campagnolo Mirage 9/10sp hub in order to use a Campagnolo cassette (Can you tell I'm making this build up as I go along :mad2: ?!!). Thinking I'll re-lace rear wheel with said Campagnolo hub; then I find out about the differences about 8/9/10sp.



_In summary; because of what I've learned, it appears I'm going to have to just go with Campagnolo Veloce brake/shifters to K.I.S.S._

And use the other groupset on the other Cannondale frameset I have.


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

If you told us exactly what you have now and want to use it will help with advice (meaning a complete list). Getting information in dribs and drabs slows down the advice giving process.


----------

