# Lower back and neck pain - bike fit question



## ZachUA (May 18, 2013)

Hey guys, just picked up a 2002 Litespeed Tuscany which is often regarded as a very comfortable bike. The seller advertised it as a 56, which is the size I was told I need to ride after a fitting by the LBS. 

At any rate, when I got home I emailed the serial number to litespeed to see what info they had on the bike and in their response they said it's a 53cm. Bummer. Looks like I messed up. 

I rode it yesterday for about an hour and experienced lower back pain and neck pain. My neck is still sore today. 

My height is 5'9.5" or 176.5 cm. Inseam is just a hair over 32" more precisely 82.5cm.

I need to measure, but I think the stem is a 140mm. I'm wondering if shortening that up a bit would help sit me up a tad straighter? My thinking right now is that the seat may be adjusted high bc of the shorter seat tube, and someone installed the spacers under the stem to make up for the shorter headtube. 
Here is the geo for the 2002 Tuscany:

My other choice I am considering is putting it up for sale. I am ok selling it and buying something else if I can get a much better fit from a 55 or 56cm bike. Any advice or help is greatly appreciated.


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## modernworld (Jul 1, 2013)

At 5'9" and that frame can you even stand over it without castrating yourself?

Just curious.

Also, the cockpit looks set up very aggressively and upright at the same time, which is a bit strange. You have some spacers on the stem to play with, and that stem is pretty long.

I'm curious why someone would tell you you need a 56 at 5'9" though - that sounds big. I ride a 51 and I'm 5'10" (30" inseam).


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## Alfonsina (Aug 26, 2012)

Have you had this actual bike fitted to you? I am mystified as to the bike shop fitting you to a bike you didn't have. The 56 was a number for what actual bike?


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## ZachUA (May 18, 2013)

The bike shop fitted me for a different bike last year but told me in general a 56 would be what I would ride. 

When I looked up bike fit online one of the calculations I found was inseam * .67. My inseam is 82.5cm so 82.5*.67= 55.275. A little smaller than the LBS advised but pretty close. 

I know there's a lot more to fit than just inseam, but isn't inseam one of the most important for figuring out seat tube length?


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## modernworld (Jul 1, 2013)

ZachUA said:


> The bike shop fitted me for a different bike last year but told me in general a 56 would be what I would ride.
> 
> When I looked up bike fit online one of the calculations I found was inseam * .67. My inseam is 82.5cm so 82.5*.67= 55.275. A little smaller than the LBS advised but pretty close.
> 
> I know there's a lot more to fit than just inseam, but isn't inseam one of the most important for figuring out seat tube length?


It's a starting point.

Can you stand over this bike and still have some lift room between your undercarriage and the top tube?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Is this bike set up for *you*? Or did you get it like that and rode it without getting it adjusted for you?
If it is set for you, it's too small.
To me, TT length is much more important than ST length as really, on its own, "53" or "56" means nothing unless where it is measured to and from is known.
A 140mm stem is too long for that frame. If it's needed to get your correct position than the frame is too small.
But before you do anything, pullleeeezzzz level that saddle. Ouch. No wonder something aches as you'd be always sliding downhill and pushing yourself back up.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

I'm 5'10 and ride a 54....

nice Jetta TDI with the BEW engine and 1up rack.

I would suggest going through:
Fit Calculator - Competitive Cyclist

as a starting point.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

ZachUA said:


> The bike shop fitted me for a different bike last year but told me in general a 56 would be what I would ride.


That's bad advice. Just advising you to get a "56" is irresponsible. Is that 56 measured on a compact frame (sloping TT) or level? Center-to-center or center-to-top? Top of TT or top of seat lug? And what top tube length do you need? See what I mean?



> isn't inseam one of the most important for figuring out seat tube length?


Not to me. They could measure & list frame sizes in bananas for all I care. How do you know if a size M t-shirt fits you or not? You try it on eh? You do that because you've found before that all size M t-shirts are not the same. Same with a bike.

From previous experience or numbers from a *good* fitting - 
Know your seat height. Set the bike. 
Know your set-back (BB spindle to saddle tip horizontal distance). Adjust saddle. 
Know your hood height (brake hood to ground). Adjust stem spacers to get this. 
Know your "reach" (saddle tip to bump on brake hoods). Fit stem length to get this. 
Now stand back and look at the bike. Does it look ok or out of proportion? (Saddle too high or low for frame size. Stem too long for frame. Too many or too few stem spacers. Saddle jammed all the way forward or back).


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## ZachUA (May 18, 2013)

Thanks for the advice, guys.  I just did the competitive cyclist fit calculator and got these results:

I think the Eddy Fit is what I would prefer.


compare with the Tuscany Geo:


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

That made my head spin. Just to show you how we all differ - I'm 5' 8", inseam 84cm and my custom frame has a 55.5cm TT and a 130mm stem. The ST is 52mm c-c, sloping TT.


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## modernworld (Jul 1, 2013)

Mike T. said:


> That made my head spin. Just to show you how we all differ - I'm 5' 8", inseam 84cm and my custom frame has a 55.5cm TT and a 130mm stem. The ST is 52mm c-c, sloping TT.


This. This is why "fit computers" and what not mean nothing until you get on a bike and see how it feels. As OP is learning the hardway, numbers mean nothing when your neck is killing you.


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## ZachUA (May 18, 2013)

modernworld said:


> It's a starting point.
> 
> Can you stand over this bike and still have some lift room between your undercarriage and the top tube?


Yes I can stand over the top tube and have several inches of space. I can check tonight exactly how much.


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## ZachUA (May 18, 2013)

So then I need a professional fitting for every new bike I buy or is there a fitting that will tell me exactly what I need as a baseline and then I can use those numbers when I am looking at buying a new bike?


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## modernworld (Jul 1, 2013)

ZachUA said:


> So then I need a professional fitting for every new bike I buy or is there a fitting that will tell me exactly what I need as a baseline and then I can use those numbers when I am looking at buying a new bike?


I've done a professional fitting for every road and mountain bike I've ever ridden. Each one is different and my biomechanics have changed as I've aged and grown stronger (or weaker!).


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

ZachUA said:


> So then I need a professional fitting for every new bike I buy or is there a fitting that will tell me exactly what I need as a baseline and then I can use those numbers when I am looking at buying a new bike?


not necessarily. For my mountain bike and road bike, I did get fitted by the LBS.

the cross bike... I used the French fit as a baseline, then rode, tweaked, rode, tweaked, etc until I was happy enough.

fitting is an art and science...but individual results may vary, so it may take a baseline, then some tweaks along the way to get it just right for yourself.

If you're not comfortable doing the fit.... pay the LBS around $100 (whatever it costs for the basic fit), and be prepared to dish out additional money if you need a new stem, maybe a new seat...


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

modernworld said:


> This. This is why "fit computers" and what not mean nothing until you get on a bike and see how it feels. As OP is learning the hardway, numbers mean nothing when your neck is killing you.


And for my back that's killed me for decades I've been working with a Physiotherapist for 3+ years. She's made tweaks to my bike position.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Let's start at the beginning. You purchased a bike that you thought was a 56 (and thought that's what you required), rode it (presumably as delivered) and are now experiencing lower back and neck pain. 

To correct this, you need to find the source of the pain, and you aren't going to do that plugging values into fit calculators or guessing at what to do. What _will_ at least get you started in the right direction would be to find a reputable fitter (I agree with Mike T that you weren't advised correctly) and get a standard fitting on this bike. You've already got a fair amount invested, so rather than just resell it before knowing the source of your discomfort would (IMO) be foolish.

No guarantees, but it's likely that your fit issues are caused by incorrect saddle to bar drop, but i wouldn't rule out incorrect reach. It doesn't help any that your saddle is tilted tip down, but that just affirms my belief that step one is a fitting. From there, a good fitter will tell you if you'll ever get a decent fit on the bike, and if not, what you true sizing requirements are.


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## MS150Rider66 (Apr 30, 2009)

Hi, in case you don't know, all those diffrent sizesis for you to choose which style of riding you prefer. the competitive fit if you read the about this fit it explains it. That fit is the most aggressive fit not for comfort and the French fit is the most comfy fit. Hope it really works out for you. A very nice bike indeed.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

_Apologies if I sound rude_ ... 

Is this your first road bike? Did you do some stretching exercises before riding? Did you had to adjust the saddle height?


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

This thread is making my head hurt a little bit.

OP, have you adjust the bike for you yet?

While I haven't gone so far as to pay for a fitting on any of my other bikes, I once got a fitting done on what was my 'A' road bike for a long time. I found it to be about the best hundred dollars I've ever spent on cycling. Bike fit and technique are mixed up together - it's difficult or impossible to have one without the other. While I don't believe in words like "never," I haven't felt like I've had that much to gain by going for another fitting, now that I have a sense of how my bike should feel to ride. I've set up subsequent bikes by roughing in from measurements or a record of a previous bike, and then riding and "seasoning to taste." Usually that just means some fine adjustment due to components not being exactly matches for each other. I don't have the same saddle or handlebars on every bike, for example, and I have a couple different crank lengths, so my fit won't match number for number.

If you don't want to pay for a fit, I really like this article.
How to Fit a Bicycle

You'll notice there are no calculations in it. The problem is that while it's relatively straightforward to measure a bike and almost as straightforward to measure certain aspects of a person's body, the measurable parts of a body don't really determine bike setup specifically enough. Competitive Cyclist's fit calculator serves their goal - to sell bikes over the internet - very well. But that's not your goal.


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## Data_God (Oct 9, 2012)

You've received some good advice in this thread though you'll have to sort through it a bit to weed out some of it. Point is this, and at least one other pointed this out, a 56cm frame *might* work. But it's also very possible that a 54cm would as well. And even a 53cm depending on how the ST length is calculated. And here is some empirical data for you. I'm 5'9.5" and for years I rode steel 55cm frames measured C-C. I was put on a 56CM CF frame 5 years ago and absolutely hated it. Something just didn't feel right. Bought a new frameset 3 years ago and it was a 54cm ( Specialized Small) and felt right at home on it. Replaced the previous 56cm with a 54cm and it felt fine as well. With everything else being equal I think it's better to be on the smaller frame when possible.

With all that said, you said lower back pain and neck pain. But you mentioned nothing about the actual setup on the bike. But the first thing I'd look at is saddle height, and the fore/aft placement and the Stem/Reach/Height.

Bill


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## Kcire (Jul 7, 2012)

OP you didn't mention if you ever rode a road bike before. It looks to me that your bike is well fitted to your size w/ a little adjustment it'll work out. I've seen newbies fitted from their LBS and have gotten neck and lower back because they were not used to it, but has gotten comfortable in few weeks.


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