# Campy Shimano or SRAM



## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

OK, without trying to start a war, which company gives more bang for the buck? Now I'm riding a 10 sp Campy Daytona and Veloce bike. My brother has a Shimano 9 sp. We're going to put together a Surly Pacer for my wife this winter. SRAM really looks like a go but I'm heavily invested in Campy. After Campy dumbed down their shifters except for Chorus and Record, there really is no difference between the way they work and SRAM and Shimano do. You can't buy individual parts to rebuild either.

I dumped all my Campy 8 sp years ago when they discontinued support for them and upgraded to 10 sp. Now 10 sp seems to be on it's way to extinction. 

Personally, I'm to the point that I don't care what I ride as long as it works and is affordable.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Have you tried the search feature of the website?


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## smartyiak (Sep 28, 2005)

Depends on where you buy it from.

Generally, Shimano and SRAM will be less expnsive, but if you buy from Ribble or PBK, Campy will come in at around the same price.

As for bang-for-the-buck...only you can decide what the best value is. All three companies make high quality, highly functional gruppos.

-Smarty


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## sherlock (Aug 6, 2011)

Bang for buck? Microshift


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## gofast2wheeler (Oct 13, 2011)

Personally, all groups are fine. There is some differences though in the way they shift. SRAM double tap, Campy you can shift thru all cogs in rear with push of button, etc. If looks are important as well, Campy wins hand down. So if you want function and comestics Campy all the way.


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## malanb (Oct 26, 2009)

it is campa not campy


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## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

sherlock said:


> Bang for buck? Microshift


Agreed, I've ridden Microshift, Ultegra, and Force and honestly, while ultegra and force are definately better, the price point on Microshift is so great that it really wins the bang for the buck hands down. Microshift has never had any functional issues for me it's more of a question of ergonomics not being the best but even that can be alleviated by choice of the bend in your drop bars.

Nashbar carries 10spd Microshift brifters for $120 and usually every other week there is a 15-20% off sale so you can have them for $100. I've also used the Microshift MTB rear derailleur and it works flawlessly and actually looks better than the pictures of it on nashbars website. 

At full price you have $120 for brifters, $35 each for FD and RD. Sub $200 can't beat it. 

After that, I would say SRAM is best bang for the buck. I recently switched to Force and I love it and it's priced comparable to ultegra, seems to work as good if not better and is ridiculously lightweight.


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

gofast2wheeler said:


> Personally, all groups are fine. There is some differences though in the way they shift. SRAM double tap, Campy you can shift thru all cogs in rear with push of button, etc. If looks are important as well, Campy wins hand down. So if you want function and comestics Campy all the way.


That's one of the reasons I asked. I definitely don't want a Campy VS Shimano flame war. I've seen that too many times. In the past everything you said about Campy was why I used it. Now you really have to go to Chorus or Record to get most of those functions. You used to be able to go all the way down to Mirage and still rebuild your shifters. Now the shift mechanism on all their shifters has to be purchased as an assembly. That negates any advantage you used to have. 

I was hoping someone who used Campy and SRAM could give an opinion on the two or even a comparison. SRAM seems to come in at a good price point for the low to mid range groups. Plus they can use readily available Shimano wheels.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

delete


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Most important thing is how the levers fit in your hands, and how you like the shifting and braking movements.
All the other stuff is irrelevant if the levers are too big/small/close/far.

Now's the time of year when a lot of nice used stuff will show up on EBay. :thumbsup:


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Shimano + Ebay = win!


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

aclinjury said:


> Shimano + Ebay = win!


+1.....Don't discredit Shimano or Microshift either. They are just as reliable. There is a lot of hater-aid in the forum being poured on Shimano but their stuff IS good. SRAM is getting recognition because they are marketing heavily. They are good; but so is Microshift. Microshift is new but people are starting to appreciate them. I remember when SRAM was being looked at as inferior eventhough it wasn't. Each company has their pluses and minuses so try them all out. Who knows? You might end up going the Shimano route especially since their Tiagra group has gone 10 speed this year and it's compatible with the other 10 speed groups. SRAM excels at compatibility too. You can mix Apex, Rival, Force and Red together to get what you want a very good price. Personally, if I went SRAM, I'd spend a little extra and go with Force or Red shifters though. I've heard of broken paddles on the Rival shifters and I would suspect that Apex would suffer the same fate eventually since they use the same design. Some will say that it was earlier ones but I know quite a few guys that have had that problem after racing a season with newer Rival shifters, Never heard of Force or Red having the problem.


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## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

regarding SRAM many say unless your a complete weight weenie, Red is unnecessary from a functional perspective with the exception of the shifters. The Red shifters are "zero loss" in both the left and right shifter. My Force shifters are "zero loss" on the left shifter only. It's no big deal to me but i can see having "zero loss" on the right shifter being pretty sweet as it would make the throw on a shift almost non existent. 

Many people say from a funtional perspective Rival, Force, and Red are equal. Red is substantially lighter than the others however, the Red FD has a reputation for being too flimsy so many run a Force or Rival FD on their red setups. The Red casette is made from a single piece of metal and is ridiculously lightweight. If you want to run larger than a 32T you have to get an APEX RD, there is no short and long cage distinction within a group like there is with Shimano. Some say that SRAM is clunky, I prefer to say that it makes a DIFFERENT sound than shimano but I wouldn't say it's clunky. I've never used campy so I can't comment there. They are all good if setup properly and at the right price points. I think a lot depends on if your actually racing or just a casual rider.

Personally, I like the rigid brake handle so I prefer my SRAM setup over Shimano.


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## ishmaelmuscat (Oct 30, 2008)

*Large hands and rough = go for Campy*

If you have large hands and are the type of person who is not soft ;-) when pushing things, then go for campagnolo... Campagnolo shifters need a bit of effort when you shift... Rode Shimano and SRAM but personally preferred Campy.

Moreover, 10 speed will not extinct... should be marketable along with 11 speed...

Oh, and only Campy provide 11 speed... been doing so for 3 years now


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## minutemaidman (Jun 14, 2010)

Ride a bike with SRAM. I did, and I dont like the double tap shifting on the FD. My preference is Shimano. And, bang for buck would mean 5700 105. Works good for me. If its for your wife, I suggest you get her input too by the way.


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Most important thing is how the levers fit in your hands, and how you like the shifting and braking movements.
> All the other stuff is irrelevant if the levers are too big/small/close/far.
> 
> Now's the time of year when a lot of nice used stuff will show up on EBay. :thumbsup:


Never having tried SRAM I can't comment on fit. Campagnolo fits fine. Shimano is OK too.


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## dorset darren (Sep 13, 2011)

aclinjury said:


> Shimano + Ebay = win!


i found ebay used prices go for more than "shop around the internet" new prices. the 105 gear certainly does and i sold my tiagra 10sp groupset slightly used for more than a certain online retailer was selling new!

ebay for lots of things but for me not shimao:rolleyes


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

cs1 said:


> That's one of the reasons I asked. I definitely don't want a Campy VS Shimano flame war. I've seen that too many times. In the past everything you said about Campy was why I used it. Now you really have to go to Chorus or Record to get most of those functions. You used to be able to go all the way down to Mirage and still rebuild your shifters. Now the shift mechanism on all their shifters has to be purchased as an assembly. That negates any advantage you used to have.
> 
> I was hoping someone who used Campy and SRAM could give an opinion on the two or even a comparison. SRAM seems to come in at a good price point for the low to mid range groups. Plus they can use readily available Shimano wheels.


 
I've owned and ridden them all; those that are saying 'buy what fits your hands best' have it nailed, IMO. One bit to consider: If you have small hands, the reach adjustability factors might be worth considering.

That said, while I like the shape of the old 10s Campag levers the best, the SRAM is close enough, and I personally prefer the SRAM shifting. The thumb lever isn't as convenient from the drops. Yes, it's reasonably reachable, but the SRAM lever lets you keep a full-on grip and run down the cog as you spin up a sprint beautifully.

IMO, the 'rebuildability' of Campag was always something of a false argument - it mattered mostly because the old Campag system was based on wear parts, so needed to be occasionally rebuilt. The newer 'ratcheting' mechanisms shouldn't need as much rebuilding, so being able to buy the parts assemblies should be perfectly fine - and is still a step up as compared to Shimano in that regard. (I still see this as an overblown issue, though.)

Similarly, the ability to 'sweep the cog' downward is mostly an engineering anomaly, and not of much practical concern. It just happended to come about as part of how they chose to solve the integrated shifter 'problem,' and they were bright enough to market it as a 'feature.' It was absolutely not a design parameter. The one tactical spot where it comes in handy - during shifts from the big to the small chainring - can be handled perfectly adequately by firing off the three or four quick single shifts in any of the other systems (including the 'lesser' Campag.) You'll still be done moving your fingers before the chain has had a chance to wind it's way down the cog. (FWIW, the thumb lever is ergonmically slower for ratcheting off the shifts, so comparing among the Campag lines it seems more dear, but as compared to SRAM or Shimano, it's not an issue.)


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Use Sram Apex on the Surley Pacer for your wife.

Or run a single in the front and 10 speed in the back. Women love 1X9 and 1X10.


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## stinhambo (Aug 9, 2011)

danl1 said:


> Similarly, the ability to 'sweep the cog' downward is mostly an engineering anomaly, and not of much practical concern. It just happended to come about as part of how they chose to solve the integrated shifter 'problem,' and they were bright enough to market it as a 'feature.' It was absolutely not a design parameter. The one tactical spot where it comes in handy - during shifts from the big to the small chainring - can be handled perfectly adequately by firing off the three or four quick single shifts in any of the other systems (including the 'lesser' Campag.) You'll still be done moving your fingers before the chain has had a chance to wind it's way down the cog.


That's gold right there!


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## baker921 (Jul 20, 2007)

FWIW have you looked at how Surly spec their complete bike?
Pacer | Bikes | Surly Bikes
With a heavy frame and fork it makes sense to me not to pay out too much for slightly lighter components once you've got the functionality you want.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*nope...*



malanb said:


> it is campa not campy


Even Campy has given in. From the official website:

Mad4Campy - Campagnolo


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

malanb said:


> it is campa not campy


Nope. Just ask Campagnola, they put Campy on all there test equipment.


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## EastCoast (Apr 15, 2007)

motobecane69 said:


> If you want to run larger than a 32T you have to get an APEX RD, there is no short and long cage distinction within a group like there is with Shimano.


If you want to run larger than a 32T then you won't be using any SRAM rear road derailleur at all, because Apex and Rival spec is 32T cog max.

Furthermore, there is a size distinction for Apex and Rival; both come in 'short' and 'medium' versions.

Finally, the cage length is not what determines cog capacity.

EDIT: More relevant to the OP, I've seen 10-speed Tiagra for under $400 which is pretty good value, if you ask me.


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

In case you're confused, Campagnolo makes the components for male riders, and Campagnola for female riders. Campy is for those who aren't sure.


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## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

EastCoast said:


> If you want to run larger than a 32T then you won't be using any SRAM rear road derailleur at all, because Apex and Rival spec is 32T cog max.
> 
> Furthermore, there is a size distinction for Apex and Rival; both come in 'short' and 'medium' versions.
> 
> ...


yes that was a typo, I meant to write larger than 28T, not 32. Regarding short and long cage, I realize it has to do with chain wrap but I wasn't aware of short and long cage versions and incorrectly assumed that was because SRAM only makes double cranks. Thank you for enlightening me.


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## adam_mac84 (Sep 22, 2010)

cheap campy shifters from ribble, shimano everything else. Hubbub cable routing... 7 CX races in on this setup and all is well on my bike


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## dorset darren (Sep 13, 2011)

adam_mac84 said:


> cheap campy shifters from ribble, shimano everything else. Hubbub cable routing... 7 CX races in on this setup and all is well on my bike



can you mix campag and shimano drivetrain then?


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

stinhambo said:


> That's gold right there!


Even though my current shifters can do it, I've never had a reason to do it. For me it's kind of a useless feature. Lance Armstrong won 7 consecutive Tours on Shimano. I don't see that not being able to shift 10 gears at once hindered him at all.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

motobecane69 said:


> yes that was a typo, I meant to write larger than 28T, not 32. Regarding short and long cage, I realize it has to do with chain wrap but I wasn't aware of short and long cage versions and incorrectly assumed that was because SRAM only makes double cranks. Thank you for enlightening me.


You can also buy a SRAM XX or X.9 rear derailleur and save a little weight over the Apex version.


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## lnavarrete (Aug 11, 2011)

I ride Campagnolo Centaur and Shimano Ultegra groups on two different bikes. Both do a decent job.

Easy to find, easy to maintain due to available tools and LBS expertise and lower cost = Shimano
Ergonomics, quality and function = Campanolo


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## eekase (Nov 10, 2009)

*Been on Campy for years, but..*

..I recently took campy off my Cervelo and built it up with Sram Red LTD (yellow) group. Now I've been on Campy right when they released their 10 speed stuff (2003?), always with Record, but used Chorus cranks for the $$ savings. With that said, I really kind of like this SRAM Red group. The hoods fit nice, I like the little thumb indentation. It didn't take long at all to get used to the double tap shifting. The FD is kind of buggy, and needs to be set just right, but once it is, no issues.
Will I change out my SL3 to SRAM, no....but will I consider SRAM Red in the future, sure.

To the OP, like others said, you have to try them all, see which you prefer regarding shifting and how the hoods feel.


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## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

put a rival FD on there and I bet your problems will be solved


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## eekase (Nov 10, 2009)

*..how 'bout a campy FD?*



motobecane69 said:


> put a rival FD on there and I bet your problems will be solved


Yep, I see a lot of posts saying go to Rival or Force FD...since I have a campy FD just sitting there, I'm thinking give it a whirl


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## Bonesbrigade (Nov 3, 2011)

I'm one of the few people I know who doesn't really care for SRAM (I have force on one of my road bikes). I just put dura ace 7900 on my cx bike and it just feels better to me. I do wish they still used the larger hoods though. I have another bike with 6 year old ultegra, and it has never let me down, and the bigger hoods are a great hand position for really pushing the pace. 

The issue I had with SRAM was when I tired in a race and was looking for an easier gear, I would sometimes grab a harder gear by mistake - man that is annoying. Anyway, I can't fault the system for that, but that has been my experience.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

lols mah broken Ultegra shifter downshifts 10 gears in a single slick.

And that reminds me, I have to replace it. rrr:


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## Chris Oz (Oct 8, 2005)

Suntour friction shift and 5 speed at the back. Now what other stupid religious war can I put an end too.


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## redlude97 (Jun 29, 2010)

10spd on a winter bike seems like overkill and high maintenence. Put together an 8/9 speed shimano setup and call it good. Parts are way cheaper to replace and maintain


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## Sterba (Nov 6, 2011)

*gear levers*

sorry to interrupt your discussion, don't know how to get started. Need an answer to a simple question: I have a bike with a 9 speed Shimano Tiagra deraillieur and triple clanger. I am moving from straight bars with offroad gear levers to a drops and combined brake and gear levers. I don't like the 9 speed Sora levers because the gear cables sprout out of the side. I want to fit STI 105 levers 5700 model, which are 10 speed. 

My question is: will the 10 speed levers work the 9 speed deraillieur? Or is the amount they shift with each click a tiny fraction less than 9 speed levers?


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

Sterba said:


> My question is: will the 10 speed levers work the 9 speed deraillieur? Or is the amount they shift with each click a tiny fraction less than 9 speed levers?


Shifters and cassette speeds go together. The derailleur only needs to be the right road brand.


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## martinrjensen (Sep 23, 2007)

if all you want is "if it works and is affordable", get Microshift, definately. If you decide to go with Shimano, go nothing above 105, maybe even Sora. Can't help you with Sram.


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## RoadBoy1 (Oct 1, 2011)

Thanks for the info on Microshift. I just bought an entry level Specialized Allez and I want to upgrade the 8-Speed STI to 10-Speed and so I will take a serious look at Microshift.

As to SRAM I have heard some negative things from the Mechs at the LBS about how SRAM has some design and durability problems and how SRAM doesn't always stand behind their products.


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## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

RoadBoy1 said:


> Thanks for the info on Microshift. I just bought an entry level Specialized Allez and I want to upgrade the 8-Speed STI to 10-Speed and so I will take a serious look at Microshift.
> 
> As to SRAM I have heard some negative things from the Mechs at the LBS about how SRAM has some design and durability problems and how SRAM doesn't always stand behind their products.


completely false, sounds like a shop that simply doesn't sell a whole lot of sram. truth is that yes there have been some reports of sram levers braking, mostly reports from racers and I believe it was on previous versions of Sram but not totally sure. also if your riding CX, the sram shifters may get gunked up but they are actually VERY easy to clean and relube


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## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

Sterba said:


> sorry to interrupt your discussion, don't know how to get started. Need an answer to a simple question: I have a bike with a 9 speed Shimano Tiagra deraillieur and triple clanger. I am moving from straight bars with offroad gear levers to a drops and combined brake and gear levers. I don't like the 9 speed Sora levers because the gear cables sprout out of the side. I want to fit STI 105 levers 5700 model, which are 10 speed.
> 
> My question is: will the 10 speed levers work the 9 speed deraillieur? Or is the amount they shift with each click a tiny fraction less than 9 speed levers?


They will work if you use the alternate cable routing described by sheldon brown. another option would be to just get a 10 spd cassette and chain as well, they will work fine with the 9spd derailleur

Derailer Adjustment

_
Alternate Cable Routings
Two alternate cable routings for Shimano derailers adapt them for use with nonstandard shifters or cassettes.

Shimano originally publicized an alternate cable routing which placed the cable slightly closer to the pivot, making the derailer move slightly farther for each click. This adaptation makes newer Shimano derailers work with older Dura-Ace shifters, but it is also useful when you want to use a 9-speed cassette with 10 speed shifters, or 8-speed cassette with 9-speed shifters, or a 7-speed cluster with 8-speed shifters. You may need to fine-tune the amount the cable deviates from the standard position, so the derailer sweep matches the sprocket spacing._


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## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

redlude97 said:


> 10spd on a winter bike seems like overkill and high maintenence. Put together an 8/9 speed shimano setup and call it good. Parts are way cheaper to replace and maintain


the op didn't say it was a "winter bike" he said he was building a bike for his wife this winter. I'm under the impression it's just a project he is working on in the winter for his wife to have come springtime. With that said, building a bike for the significant other can be a slippery slope. On one hand you want to do it cheap in case they don't love it, on the other hand, if you build them something really nice, they might take interest just cuz it looks really nice


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

motobecane69 said:


> the op didn't say it was a "winter bike" he said he was building a bike for his wife this winter. I'm under the impression it's just a project he is working on in the winter for his wife to have come springtime. With that said, building a bike for the significant other can be a slippery slope. On one hand you want to do it cheap in case they don't love it, on the other hand, if you build them something really nice, they might take interest just cuz it looks really nice


You my friend are extremely wise, married or both.

You are correct though. I'm doing it as a project bike. Before Campy went on their great shifter upgrade from Ergo to Escape to Ultrashift and now Escape II AKA Power shift on the low to mid range groups. The decision would have been easy. I would just stay with Campy. Now Campy has effectively made their shifter functionally the same as Shimano and SRAM. So, why not take another look at the competition. I like Campy but am not married to them.

The switch from Shimano to SRAM or visa versa is easy. They use the same cassette hubs and cassettes. Campy doesn't. You could effectively keep your current wheels, cassette, chain, crank and brakes. All you need to switch are derailleurs and shifters. I have 2 Campy equipped bikes and enough parts, including wheels, to put a third one together. That's why It's such a hard decision to switch. I would have to effectively re-equip all my bikes. Ahhh decisions decisions what to do?


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## Sisniega (Jun 17, 2011)

aclinjury said:


> Shimano + Ebay = win!


+++1 you can find very good deal on ebay


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## malanb (Oct 26, 2009)

Campagonolo + ebay = double win


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## malanb (Oct 26, 2009)

Ebay+campagnolo= doublewin.


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## malanb (Oct 26, 2009)

Ebay+campagnolo= doublewin.


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

malanb said:


> Campagonolo + ebay = double win


The 99 - 06 Ergo's are getting up there in price. OTT, I have to agree.


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## Johnny LaRoux (Jun 29, 2006)

I bought a very lightly used bike last year that came with SRAM Red. My last bike had Dura Ace 7700 9 speed, and I've used some older Shimano Ultegra, 105 and Campy Chorus and Veloce as well. I've given the SRAM a good amount of time to decide whether I like it or not, and I am seriously considering going back to Shimano. Not so much because there is anything wrong with the SRAM...it works very well, but I just prefer the shifting on Shimano. Too many years on it I guess. I do also find that I have more "chain noise" with SRAM than Shimano, but I've heard that is normal, and may be due to the cassette design. As some posters have said, the shape of the hoods is a big deciding factor between the three, and again, I prefer Shimano.
I'm not a racer, just someone who loves to ride bikes, and am actually riding my mountain bikes (AM and DH) more these days than my road bike. The prices that used Red components are selling for is making the Ultegra 6500 bits in my parts box look more attractive at this point! The difference in weight and the extra cog isn't worth the cost for me, and the mountain bikes go through parts WAY faster than the road bike!
Anyway, all three have their plus and minus as others have posted here. I'm not a weight weenie either (I usually have an extra pound or two on my body) and I've not found a huge difference between 105, Ultegra, and to some extent Dura Ace.

My 2 cents...


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

cs1 said:


> OK, without trying to start a war, which company gives more bang for the buck? Now I'm riding a 10 sp Campy Daytona and Veloce bike. My brother has a Shimano 9 sp. We're going to put together a Surly Pacer for my wife this winter. SRAM really looks like a go but I'm heavily invested in Campy. After Campy dumbed down their shifters except for Chorus and Record, there really is no difference between the way they work and SRAM and Shimano do. You can't buy individual parts to rebuild either.
> 
> I dumped all my Campy 8 sp years ago when they discontinued support for them and upgraded to 10 sp. Now 10 sp seems to be on it's way to extinction.
> 
> Personally, I'm to the point that I don't care what I ride as long as it works and is affordable.



SRAM equals a big big big pile of plastic junk. My ratchet in the right lever broke (as it was the case for so many other SRAM users).

Shifting with the left lever (front derailleur) needs so much force. I wait now until the left plastic pile of junk snaps apart. I wouldn't be surprised a woman would have problems putting in so much force when shifting from the smaller to the larger front ring. I don't know if £100 Gore cables and housing would improve the situation. The front derailleur is surely not the result of engineering because lever action (there where one clamps the cable at the pitch bolt) is definitely not there especially in combination with a wobbly plastic lever mechnism which does not help in overcomming the lever action. Must be the engineering result from a 16 year old high school boy with spots in his face.

And if you love your wife: Cozy Beehive: SRAM Force Brake Housing Failure

By the way: the first generation of Rivals dating back to 2007 where so much better (okay the longevity of the surface finish was bad and simply a humiliation) because it had some more metal parts in it. Front shifting was no problem and butterly smooth.


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## Dereck (Jan 31, 2005)

Couple of years back, I actually rode SRAM, Campag, Shimano and DT shifters in the same year.

All worked fine - though some would have told you that a Campag shifter/rear derailleur can't work with a Shimano cassette, which I found to be not really true 

In the end, SRAM and Campag were dealt with by Ebay and I'm back with my first choice of the 'old' external shifter cable Shimanos.

There is no need for a 'war' here - as my Campag interest went back to when I did road racing 'somewhat seriously' in the 1970s, I'd have been happy to have gone over to their stuff.

BUT.

When you go for a bike ride, you spend a sizable amount of your time holding your brake levers and shifting gears with them.

If you don't care for either use, you are not going to be happy. I offer that's more important than following fashion or doing what marketing tells you. All three worked fine for me - my bikes are assembled and maintained by someone very dedicated to their working well  But I spent more time with the SRAM trying to get the levers somewhere comfortable to hold, didn't care for their single shift lever and found that everyone knowing when I changed gear thanks to the noise they made somewhat irritating after my Shimano rigs.

Similarly with Campag - having to reach around to the thumb button was irritating, plus my hands and the lever shape and size didn't get on at all.

As for the usual squabble over longevity and ability to service levers. My best Shimano set-up was bought just after they 'invented' 10 speed, now have a fair mileage in their 8 or so years of service and shift the quietest in the fleet. Specialist tools needed to service my Shimano gear are minimal, it works, I find them comfortable in all facets of use.

Even better, my Spousal Unit loves the Shimano Ultegra triple rig on her beloved Gunnar. That is an immense plus!

Now - how can fashion or marketing top that?

Regards

Dereck


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## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

one of the reason why microshift is the "best bang for the buck" is it does a little bit of everything well and its very inexpensive. ultimately, it shifts the bike, i found the hoods comfortable, and if you don't like the whole brake lever swinging to shift like shimano or the thumb tab like Campy and Sora you have a rigid brake lever with 2 different buttons for shifting. it's a pretty nice setup. lets face it, the original question was bang for the buck. Microshift will make your bike shift as precise as any of the other systems and shifters, FD, and RD will only set you back $175-200.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

motobecane69 said:


> one of the reason why microshift is the "best bang for the buck" is it does a little bit of everything well and its very inexpensive. ultimately, it shifts the bike, i found the hoods comfortable, and if you don't like the whole brake lever swinging to shift like shimano or the thumb tab like Campy and Sora you have a rigid brake lever with 2 different buttons for shifting. it's a pretty nice setup. lets face it, the original question was bang for the buck. Microshift will make your bike shift as precise as any of the other systems and shifters, FD, and RD will only set you back $175-200.


It does a little bit of everything but nothing well. 

Ahhh, mediocrity.

Bang for your buck? Shimano 105, Sram APEX, Campy Athena.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

motobecane69 said:


> i disagree, i think it does a lot of things well. and it's weight is on par with ultegra too


Disagree all you want. It's crap compared to the other options on the table.


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## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

i disagree, i think it does a lot of things well. and it's weight is on par with ultegra too


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## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

robdamanii said:


> Disagree all you want. It's crap compared to the other options on the table.


bang for the buck knucklehead. 105 and apex brifters are both $250 you can have microshift brifters, fd and rd for $75 less than that. and they work as good as 105


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

motobecane69 said:


> bang for the buck knucklehead. 105 and apex brifters are both $250 you can have microshift brifters, fd and rd for $75 less than that. and they work as good as 105


Sure they do. Saving $75 is great when the shift levers are tiny and cheap, the construction is junk and the action is stiff and clunky. Not to mention unsightly and bulbous. Funny, 105 is none of those. Neither is Apex, and Campy is far from any of those.

I'd expect no less than the bottom of the barrel from someone with the name "Motobecane69" who thinks "lugged carbon bikes are ugly."

There are times to settle and times not to. Shifting is not one of those times.


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## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

robdamanii said:


> Sure they do. Saving $75 is great when the shift levers are tiny and cheap, the construction is junk and the action is stiff and clunky. Not to mention unsightly and bulbous. Funny, 105 is none of those. Neither is Apex, and Campy is far from any of those.
> 
> I'd expect no less than the bottom of the barrel from someone with the name "Motobecane69" who thinks "lugged carbon bikes are ugly."
> 
> There are times to settle and times not to. Shifting is not one of those times.


lugged carbon bikes are retarded looking in my opinion. What does the name Motobecane69 have to do with anything, my bike probably has better components than yours does. 
You've probably never even used Microshift. First of all the levers aren't tiny, one is rather large, the other is smaller and well placed, my index finger pad is the size of a penny, why would I need a shift lever much larger that. The construction is as solid as anything else I"ve ridden if not more solid and perhaps you have a shitty mechanic because my microshift shifted flawlessly when it was mated to both Ultegra drivetrain parts and microshift parts. the guy is trying to build an inexpensive project bike. $75 savings is significant. Btw, if you had a brain, you would realize the savings is more than $75. 105 brifters are $250 Microshift brifters fd and rd are $175. You still need to get a FD and a RD to run your 105 setup so lets tack on another $100. So looks like we are saving $175. The op can buy a set of wheels for his project with that savings and still have a bike the shifts well.

105 is great, I'm not saying it isn't. I'm simply saying that if you are talking value, it's not so much better than Microshift. neither is ultegra for that matter. Microshift just works too damn well at what it's supposed to do and is too cheap for anyone to beat them in the value dept.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

motobecane69 said:


> lugged carbon bikes are retarded looking in my opinion. What does the name Motobecane69 have to do with anything, my bike probably has better components than yours does.
> You've probably never even used Microshift. First of all the levers aren't tiny, one is rather large, the other is smaller and well placed, my index finger pad is the size of a penny, why would I need a shift lever much larger that. The construction is as solid as anything else I"ve ridden if not more solid and perhaps you have a shitty mechanic because my microshift shifted flawlessly when it was mated to both Ultegra drivetrain parts and microshift parts. the guy is trying to build an inexpensive project bike. $75 savings is significant. Btw, if you had a brain, you would realize the savings is more than $75. 105 brifters are $250 Microshift brifters fd and rd are $175. You still need to get a FD and a RD to run your 105 setup so lets tack on another $100. So looks like we are saving $175. The op can buy a set of wheels for his project with that savings and still have a bike the shifts well.
> 
> 105 is great, I'm not saying it isn't. I'm simply saying that if you are talking value, it's not so much better than Microshift. neither is ultegra for that matter. Microshift just works too damn well at what it's supposed to do and is too cheap for anyone to beat them in the value dept.


Yes. I'm sure my Red is garbage compared to your microsh!t. And I'm sure my lugged Look is garbage compared to your Motobecane. Really, what are you, six? That's the kind of insult a 2nd grader uses.

I've ridden Shimano, I've ridden Campy, I currently ride Sram. I've also ridden Microsh!t. It sucks. The feel is awkward, the parts are cheap, the design with multiple levers on one side is flat out awful. The hood design is horrendous. Overall, it is exactly what you say it is: cheap. Bottom line.

And furthermore, your numbers are out in left field. If you want to talk about ebaying parts (since you're such a cheap bastard) you can find 105 parts on ebay for dirt cheap. I've seen full groups go for $300-$350, and that is damn sure a better deal than Microsh!t. All it takes is patience, which nobody seems to have these days. And finally, if you're going to talk about saving $175 and putting it towards wheels, let's tell you something else: you're not going to get any improvement for an extra $175, so spend it on a drivetrain that you can take with you to your next bike. Hopefully it's not a POS Bikes Direct bike, but I digress...


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

robdamanii said:


> Yes. I'm sure my Red is garbage compared to your microsh!t. And I'm sure my lugged Look is garbage compared to your Motobecane. Really, what are you, six? That's the kind of insult a 2nd grader uses.
> 
> I've ridden Shimano, I've ridden Campy, I currently ride Sram. I've also ridden Microsh!t. It sucks. The feel is awkward, the parts are cheap, the design with multiple levers on one side is flat out awful. The hood design is horrendous. Overall, it is exactly what you say it is: cheap. Bottom line.
> 
> And furthermore, your numbers are out in left field. If you want to talk about ebaying parts (since you're such a cheap bastard) you can find 105 parts on ebay for dirt cheap. I've seen full groups go for $300-$350, and that is damn sure a better deal than Microsh!t. All it takes is patience, which nobody seems to have these days. And finally, if you're going to talk about saving $175 and putting it towards wheels, let's tell you something else: you're not going to get any improvement for an extra $175, so spend it on a drivetrain that you can take with you to your next bike. Hopefully it's not a POS Bikes Direct bike, but I digress...


Why digress now? 

Let the hate flow!


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Seriously, are we comparing Microshift and Motobecanes to proper groups and bikes? These are fine if you can't afford anything else as it's better to ride crap than not ride at all... but otherwise...


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

I'm looking at the bikes in my living room right now. Two have sram red, the other dura ace. That said, there are pro teams riding Microshift. Pro riders are winning races with those shifters. It's cheap, functional and light.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Local Hero said:


> I'm looking at the bikes in my living room right now. Two have sram red, the other dura ace. That said, there are pro teams riding Microshift. Pro riders are winning races with those shifters. It's cheap, functional and light.


They are PAID to ride what the sponsors PAY them to ride. 

Do you think they'd pick it if they had a choice?


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Pros will endure whatever they're paid to ride... and the legs, in 99.9% of the cases, are still the deciding factor. We, as paying customers, don't have to endure products that don't feel right, that wont last...

Value shouldn't be just evaluated by price and specs, value drops a lot when something cheap only lasts a season... or everytime your friends have to wait because you have to fix, adjust, hack crappy parts.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

robdamanii said:


> They are PAID to ride what the sponsors PAY them to ride.
> 
> Do you think they'd pick it if they had a choice?


Honestly? No. But they do have a choice for which team they ride... 

And the reason why I know any of this is because my friend is a pro, riding microshift. A week ago we were on a ride, talking about his microshift. I asked what he though. His answer? 

"I'll focus on the good: It's light." 

My reply: "It's not Di2, is it?" 

And we both laughed, because his last team equipped BH G5s with Di2. We all know that microshift can't hold a candle to the top grouppos from the big three. 


What's the point? Why did I even bring up the fact that pro riders are winning races and tooling around on Microshift bikes? 

The point is that the stuff actually works. His bike didn't fall apart during the ride. He still crushed it at the sprints. My sram red s-works couldn't out shift his microshift rig up the grades. He didn't have any mechanical issues. It's functional.


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## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

robdamanii said:


> Yes. I'm sure my Red is garbage compared to your microsh!t. And I'm sure my lugged Look is garbage compared to your Motobecane. Really, what are you, six? That's the kind of insult a 2nd grader uses.
> 
> I've ridden Shimano, I've ridden Campy, I currently ride Sram. I've also ridden Microsh!t. It sucks. The feel is awkward, the parts are cheap, the design with multiple levers on one side is flat out awful. The hood design is horrendous. Overall, it is exactly what you say it is: cheap. Bottom line.
> 
> And furthermore, your numbers are out in left field. If you want to talk about ebaying parts (since you're such a cheap bastard) you can find 105 parts on ebay for dirt cheap. I've seen full groups go for $300-$350, and that is damn sure a better deal than Microsh!t. All it takes is patience, which nobody seems to have these days. And finally, if you're going to talk about saving $175 and putting it towards wheels, let's tell you something else: you're not going to get any improvement for an extra $175, so spend it on a drivetrain that you can take with you to your next bike. Hopefully it's not a POS Bikes Direct bike, but I digress...


my numbers are out of left field???? really? go onto nashbar.com brand new microshift shifters for $120 fd and RD $30 each. not to mention you will either get free shipping or anywhere from 10-20% off that price. Your talking about buying used parts or hoping to score a deal on takeoff 105 parts for $300-350. I don't know what you mean about not getting any improvement for an extra $175. IF your building up a bike from scratch and trying to make it inexpensive but functional, you can buy a set of Aksium's for $175. thats not too bad for a project beater bike or a second bike, or an introductory level bike for one's spouse. 
Yeah, you could invest it in a drivetrain that you won't want to take with you to your next bike because your going to want something newer, better, or latest and greatest while wheels last tend to last years and years. As for pro's riding what they are paid to ride, they aint gettin paid that much to ride that stuff, ultimately they aren't gonna ride something if it won't give them a chance to win on it. just like golf, golfers are gonna be happy to take money and an endorsement deal but they aren't gonna do it at the expense of being able to win tourneys


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

motobecane69 said:


> my numbers are out of left field???? really? go onto nashbar.com brand new microshift shifters for $120 fd and RD $30 each. not to mention you will either get free shipping or anywhere from 10-20% off that price. Your talking about buying used parts or hoping to score a deal on takeoff 105 parts for $300-350. I don't know what you mean about not getting any improvement for an extra $175. IF your building up a bike from scratch and trying to make it inexpensive but functional, you can buy a set of Aksium's for $175. thats not too bad for a project beater bike or a second bike, or an introductory level bike for one's spouse.
> Yeah, you could invest it in a drivetrain that you won't want to take with you to your next bike because your going to want something newer, better, or latest and greatest while wheels last tend to last years and years. *As for pro's riding what they are paid to ride, they aint gettin paid that much to ride that stuff, ultimately they aren't gonna ride something if it won't give them a chance to win on it. * just like golf, golfers are gonna be happy to take money and an endorsement deal but they aren't gonna do it at the expense of being able to win tourneys


Aksiums would be shameful to take to another bike. I'd sooner take a 105 drivetrain to another bike than those pieces of junk.

I bolded part of your reply to show just how clueless you are. You do realize that most pros out there could win on downtube shifters and toe clips, right? You do realize that sponsors pay big money to put those parts on bikes for pros to ride? Because a pro rides it doesn't mean that it's a good product (case in point: R-Sys wheels.)

You're proving without a doubt that you're clueless when it comes to components (likely because you've never ridden anything but crap.) If you accept garbage on your bikes, that's perfectly fine (and again, since it's a motobecane, I don't expect much) but not everyone will sink to the level of junk to save a couple bucks. Most people have far higher standards for their drivetrain components than you do, probably because they've ridden and understand the difference between garbage (microsh!t) and quality (S/S/C.)


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Rob, 

On what basis are you calling Microshift garbage? Do you know of it breaking down? Are there any known issues? 

I'd pick Microshift over Sora, Tiagra or 2300. It's a tie with new 105 imo. I'd pick new microshift over used 105 or most anything older than five or ten years. But that's just me: When it comes to components, I think new parts are almost always better than used (& abused). 


Ultimately...

If I were going to build up a steel touring bike or entry bike for a girl, I would probably pick Sram Apex. 

Why would I pick it over microshift? I could build the entire matching drivetrain with it and it's double easily replaces (kills) the triple (microshift doesn't even makes cranks). I like the feel/simplicity of double tap. Hidden cable routing has a clean look. And for value? Sram has been around longer and always been great is the warranty department.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Local Hero said:


> Honestly? No. But they do have a choice for which team they ride...
> 
> And the reason why I know any of this is because my friend is a pro, riding microshift. A week ago we were on a ride, talking about his microshift. I asked what he though. His answer?
> 
> ...


That's wonderful, it's functional. Does that make it good? Better value than 105 or Apex or another, far more refined group? Better value than Sora or Tiagra even? Is the bottom line "well it shifts, so who cares?" On the other end of the spectrum, is Di2 the biggest bang for the buck on the high end? Super Record? Sram Red?

Pros have full time mechanics repairing and replacing parts as they fail, or tuning the drivetrain if it has an issue. 99.9% of riders don't have that, and even more can't even install their own parts, so they're at the mercy of a bike shop. 

Let's be honest: your buddy put it best. "It's light." That doesn't make it good, it only makes it light. It's also cheap, which is the big issue here. People are willing to sacrifice quality for something that's cheap. Bang for the buck doesn't mean "cheapest thing that functions" but means the best blend of cost, function and refinement.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Local Hero said:


> Rob,
> 
> On what basis are you calling Microshift garbage? Do you know of it breaking down? Are there any known issues?
> 
> ...


I've ridden it enough to know that the action is stiff, the buttons fragile (seen several broken) and the overall finish and quality of construction is sorely lacking compared to the 3 big guys. I've seen bike shops strip multiple Felts of the crappy microsh!t and replace them for customers. I've seen a microsh!t shifter that was broken on the showroom floor. Great quality if it doesn't make it out the door.

When I discuss groups on fleabay, look around. Most are takeoffs or OEM groups. Used doesn't mean abused (even JensonUSA sells OEM parts.)

I agree with you for reasons to pick over microsh!t, although I'd still take used Shimano or SRAM parts over microsh!t.

My riding time is important to me. I'm not going to spend it using poor quality garbage. If other people want to, then that's on them. But recommending it as the best bang for the buck is far and away not true.


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## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

Dude, you are missing the point of.the thread! Op wasn't asking what was best, he asked best bang for the buck to do an inexpensive build for his wife! Of course duraace and red are better than microshift but you are implying that the microshift stuff is crappy that does.t even work and quite simply that is false. Bang for the buck implies one of 2 things, its either really cheap or its awfully good. A duraace di2 setup may be absolutely awesome bit its massively expensive. Someone looking to do weekend clubrides can have a grand old time doing it on microshift parts that are 1/6th the cost. I rode my microshift brifters for 18months never had to make an adjustment and the bike shifted great. Eith that said, yes, the shifting of my force group on my motobecane is much crisper and the throws shorter. But its a lot more expensive.


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## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

Dan Gerous said:


> Pros will endure whatever they're paid to ride... and the legs, in 99.9% of the cases, are still the deciding factor. We, as paying customers, don't have to endure products that don't feel right, that wont last...
> 
> Value shouldn't be just evaluated by price and specs, value drops a lot when something cheap only lasts a season... or everytime your friends have to wait because you have to fix, adjust, hack crappy parts.


I agree and my point is that microshift isn't totally crappy, it is built reliably and will last. Most people will elect to buy another bike that is nicer all around and abandon microshift that route and while resale value won't be as high as the big 3 it doesn't need to be because the cost of acquisition was less.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

motobecane69 said:


> Dude, you are missing the point of.the thread! Op wasn't asking what was best, he asked best bang for the buck to do an inexpensive build for his wife! Of course duraace and red are better than microshift but you are implying that the microshift stuff is crappy that does.t even work and quite simply that is false. Bang for the buck implies one of 2 things, its either really cheap or its awfully good. A duraace di2 setup may be absolutely awesome bit its massively expensive. Someone looking to do weekend clubrides can have a grand old time doing it on microshift parts that are 1/6th the cost. I rode my microshift brifters for 18months never had to make an adjustment and the bike shifted great. Eith that said, yes, the shifting of my force group on my motobecane is much crisper and the throws shorter. But its a lot more expensive.


Best bang for the buck at a lower price point:

Apex or 105.

Cheapest: Microsh!t.


There's a difference, wether you believe it or not.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

motobecane69 said:


> Look what I found in the original post to start the thread.
> 
> 
> Microshift, Works and affordable. Maybe that should be their slogan?


Or it could be "we're so desperate to get people to ride our gear we'll essentially give it away."

That sounds more appropriate to me.

Actually, what really sounds appropriate to me is adding a forum entitled "Cheap Bastard's Bikes and Parts" It would probably be the most popular forum here, especially since nobody gives a damn about quality and only buys on price these days.


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## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

Look what I found in the original post to start the thread. 


cs1 said:


> Personally, I'm to the point that I don't care what I ride as long as it works and is affordable.


Microshift, Works and affordable. Maybe that should be their slogan?


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

motobecane69 said:


> You just don't understand business. Have you seen microshift ads ? I see plenty of shimano and sram ads in magazines. Microshift makes a solid product and doesn't do a ton of marketing so they don't have to charge as much. Low overhead business, just like bikes direct. Just because its inexpensive doesn't mean its cheap crap. I will say this, if your microshift gear breaks, have fun trying to get warranty coverage, but at least its cheap enough that buying another one won't set you back too far. There is a reason shimano sued them, they know they are a legit threat to their lower level business. BTW, microshift will beat shimano to the punch with 11 spd drivetrain too.


Campy beat Microsh!t to 11 sp and did it better.

You break a SRAM shifter, you have a new one in 4 days. 

Microsh!t is a low overhead business, just like Bikes Direct. They both produce crappy products. It's an apt comparison.


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## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

robdamanii said:


> Or it could be "we're so desperate to get people to ride our gear we'll essentially give it away."
> 
> That sounds more appropriate to me.
> 
> Actually, what really sounds appropriate to me is adding a forum entitled "Cheap Bastard's Bikes and Parts" It would probably be the most popular forum here, especially since nobody gives a damn about quality and only buys on price these days.


You just don't understand business. Have you seen microshift ads ? I see plenty of shimano and sram ads in magazines. Microshift makes a solid product and doesn't do a ton of marketing so they don't have to charge as much. Low overhead business, just like bikes direct. Just because its inexpensive doesn't mean its cheap crap. I will say this, if your microshift gear breaks, have fun trying to get warranty coverage, but at least its cheap enough that buying another one won't set you back too far. There is a reason shimano sued them, they know they are a legit threat to their lower level business. BTW, microshift will beat shimano to the punch with 11 spd drivetrain too.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

robdamanii said:


> ...just like Bikes Direct. They both produce crappy products. It's an apt comparison.


Do you feel this way about all Bikes Direct products? Because I've won omniums on my BD Team Track. 










Yes, I upgraded the wheels and replaced the grips and saddle. But I haven't even considered upgrading away from my "crappy" bike. 

Best bang for the buck on a track bike? I found it. Nothing even comes close. There aren't many production track bikes within $500 of this bike, unless you catch a fleeting deal on bonktown (same frameset, only marked as a Fuji). In fact, I spent thousands *less* than guys I regularly beat on the velodrome.


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## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

Local Hero said:


> Do you feel this way about all Bikes Direct products? Because I've won omniums on my BD Team Track.
> 
> 
> Yes, I upgraded the wheels and replaced the grips and saddle. But I haven't even considered upgrading away from my "crappy" bike.
> ...


doesn't matter if you upgraded the wheels, grips and saddle, those things get upgraded on every manf bike. lets face it, when we talk about a manf bike, we are talking about the frame only. Fuji, trek, cannondale, pinarello etc aren't making their own shifters and components, they are building frames and putting one of the big 3's components on them. Are we really supposed to believe that all these bike companies have different types of frames that are so different, unique and better? of course not, they have different molds with different aesthetics and paint schemes, thats it.


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

It seems like the thread is getting off topic. I'm not looking for a flame war. All I asked about was value between groups. Forgetting Microshift was an oversight on my part.

Still, the question is who has ridden all 3 groups and what do you think and why?


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## AndyMc2006 (Oct 27, 2006)

I recently sold my Landshark that I bought in 1999, it had my Campy chorus group from 1997 on it and it was still going strong. I had replaced the cranks this year and the derailuer pulleys otherwise no problems.
I put the 2011 Campy Chorus on my new Moots and I love it. I bought it on ebay for 1249.00 a incredible deal. Check out Planet Cyclery on Ebay because they also had excellent deals on Shimano groups, definitely worth looking at their prices. Great customer service and delivery speed as well.

The LBS could not even come close to matching there prices or if they could they did not want too which is their perogotive as well.


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## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

I haven't ridden campy but currently ride sram force, used to ride microshift hooked up to ultegra gf and rd as well as microshift cd and rd and I've also ridden 2300, sora, tiagra, 105. A couple questions for you? Are you looking to buy new or used? How serious of a rider is your wife? 
One option not put out there yet is new 10speed tiagra. I'm not sure if it uses hidden cable routing or not but certainly the latest 105 with internal routing is nice and clean looking.. microshift doesn't have that hidden cable routing. 2300 and sora use the thumb shifters like campy, most consider it to be ill placed for shifting from the drops, but that may depend on the type of bars being used. If your wife is new to cycling I'd be most inclined to stay away from apex. Women seem to take awhile to understand shifting a bike and double tap may complicate that. The gearing of apex may be nice to avoid using a triple which can also confuse women in my experience but you can still put a 32tooth cassette on shimano drivetrain, just make sure you get the long cage version of a 105 rd or use an mtb rd.


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

> _Women seem to take awhile to understand shifting a bike and double tap may complicate that. _


Oh dear... :nonod:


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## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

Obviously many women ride and shift bikes.just fine, but many of them didn't ride 10 speed bikes in their youth to the same extent that young boys do so they aren't as comfortable on any bike and there is a greater learning curve. I could see double tap being a.bit confusing or who knows, maybe it would be easier, only 1 lever to worry about.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

motobecane69 said:


> Obviously many women ride and shift bikes.just fine, but many of them didn't ride 10 speed bikes in their youth to the same extent that young boys do so they aren't as comfortable on any bike and there is a greater learning curve. I could see double tap being a.bit confusing or who knows, maybe it would be easier, only 1 lever to worry about.


So now women are stupid and slow learners? I call bullsh!t yet again. Doubletap, STI or Campy only take a ride or two to get used to.


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## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

stop trying to put words in my mouth. 

I'm a fitness professional who has succesfully gotten several women into cycling for exercise and it's a recurring theme with them. they struggle with shifting and what I report to you is pretty much what they reported back to me. If they rode bikes as kids it was usually a girls bmx style bike with no gears. As girls get a bit older and close to teens, many of them are disinterested in bikes while boys are graduating from bmx to mtb's with gears.

Of course it's not the hardest thing in the world, but there IS a learning curve. I could see double tap being more confusing to some degree vs a 2 lever system where you just say, "hit this lever to shift up, and this lever shift down"


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

motobecane69 said:


> stop trying to put words in my mouth.
> 
> I'm a fitness professional who has succesfully gotten several women into cycling for exercise and it's a recurring theme with them. they struggle with shifting and what I report to you is pretty much what they reported back to me. If they rode bikes as kids it was usually a girls bmx style bike with no gears. As girls get a bit older and close to teens, many of them are disinterested in bikes while boys are graduating from bmx to mtb's with gears.
> 
> Of course it's not the hardest thing in the world, but there IS a learning curve. I could see double tap being more confusing to some degree vs a 2 lever system where you just say, "hit this lever to shift up, and this lever shift down"


It's as confusing as "one click shifts up, two down." Don't give me that crap that "it's difficult to learn." If someone is just beginning to ride a road bike, there's a learning curve with everything, so don't pretend that one shifter or another is better for anyone to learn on.

Maybe the problem is you telling them how to shift and what to do as opposed to learning on their own. There's no substitute for trial and error, no matter how it's explained.


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## motobecane69 (Apr 8, 2011)

well for starters, they usually dont know which way is down, which was is up. and you can click it more than 2 times as well so than it's gonna start shifting all over the place. I'm not saying it is more confusing or isn't because none of the bikes I've gotten these women on has used a SRAM drivetrain.

Please tell me where I ever said "its difficult to learn"? I never did, I said there is a learning curve and that in my opinion SRAM could make it more confusing. on the other hand, it could be more comfortable as one reason why mygf didn't like shimano is that the whole brake lever swung to the side, she was worried about somehow shifting while pulling the brakes. 

I don't know why you have such a ****ing attitude problem over this entire thread. It's not feasible for everyone to ride high end bikes moron. Some of us are simply trying to help the OP understand some of the options available to him.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

motobecane69 said:


> well for starters, they usually dont know which way is down, which was is up. and you can click it more than 2 times as well so than it's gonna start shifting all over the place. I'm not saying it is more confusing or isn't because none of the bikes I've gotten these women on has used a SRAM drivetrain.
> 
> Please tell me where I ever said "its difficult to learn"? I never did, I said there is a learning curve and that in my opinion SRAM could make it more confusing. on the other hand, it could be more comfortable as one reason why mygf didn't like shimano is that the whole brake lever swung to the side, she was worried about somehow shifting while pulling the brakes.
> 
> I don't know why you have such a ****ing attitude problem over this entire thread. It's not feasible for everyone to ride high end bikes moron. Some of us are simply trying to help the OP understand some of the options available to him.


You're right. It's not feasible for everyone to ride high end bikes "moron." It IS feasible to stay on a budget and not buy crap because it's cheap. You don't seem to understand the difference between cheap and affordable, and you're getting your panties in a twist because someone disagrees with your (incorrect) post.


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

First Microshift and now women. Kiddies, please stay on track. I'm amazed at how threads digress or degenerate in this case.


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## Dereck (Jan 31, 2005)

cs1 said:


> It seems like the thread is getting off topic. I'm not looking for a flame war. All I asked about was value between groups. Forgetting Microshift was an oversight on my part.
> 
> Still, the question is who has ridden all 3 groups and what do you think and why?


Me! All three, plus DT shifters with Campag brake levers just for the fun of it!

First big point, and the only one that matters.

You spend your entire ride, every single one of them, holding your shifter levers and changing gears with them. 

If you don't like holding said levers and don't care for how they shift, how much sales and marketing spend on conning you to buy is immaterial. 

The opinion of the rider next to you is equally immaterial.

2009, faced with a wife insisting I buy a new bike, I went with a CF framed Trek. Talked into a 'bike in a box' routine, I also tried a SRAM rigged bike in the shop - had always ridden Shimano and liked them. Big Mistake Two, after the cracked Trek head tube, but that's another story.

Spent more time unwrapping the bar tape, moving bars and levers around looking for comfort. Didn't like the single lever shifting SRAM peddle so enthusiastically - that everyone for miles around knows when you shift gears is the least of it. Along the way, the Trek's bars were traded on EBay for the ones I would have bought had I stayed off the 'bike in a box' route.

The final solution involved a hefty week or two on Thiefbay, oddly enough, and eventually the Trek replacement frame went the same way.

If you are comfortable with your shifters in those respects, you are fine. If not, either figure out the cheap solution - move stuff around some - or take the slightly more (or collosally more!) expensive route. As in, find out what's comfortable for you and get it. If it's Microspend, so be it. 

The guy who's bought the latest colour of Whatever on the bike next to you isn't holding your levers - you are!

For those wondering - I really wanted to try Campag, as that's what I rode when I took this bike riding thing seriously. But the levers were too small for my hands and I didn't like scratting around for those little thumb shifters.

So, now my beloved Gunnar has a sweet set of Ultegra ten speed that, after around 8 years, shift smoothly and silently - and I enjoy my riding position on them. My Bob Jackson has some 10 speed DA shifters that I scored off EBay, pull-offs from a bike shop. Notchy compared to my Ultegras, but as comfortable to hold and use. And no way would I suggest changing a thing on my Spousal Unit's beloved Gunnar, with its ten speed Ultegra triple and short reach levers. She may be vague on the relationships between nuts and bolts, but understands her bike comfort level perfectly - and I ain't going to mess with it.

So get off the religious drive to Campag, marketing's drive to SRAM or the economay route this week and ride what's comfortable for the only person on your bike that matters - YOU!

D


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## vagabondcyclist (Apr 2, 2011)

Dereck said:


> So get off the religious drive to Campag, marketing's drive to SRAM or the economay route this week and ride what's comfortable for the only person on your bike that matters - YOU!
> 
> D


And that's it.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

In the name of God: My drive to Campagnolo is not religious.


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## Dereck (Jan 31, 2005)

Times change. When I did this cycling thing seriously, it was either Campag, which worked and would get you to the race finish, or cheap French or English kit, which might not... The Spanish Zeus company came in real handy though

So, despite bike racers not being of the fiscal status of nowadays, we all strove to get close to full Campag. My rig at one time was a Campag BB, front and rear derailleurs and DT shifters, Zeus crankset with their odd 52 x 43 - the one cog less than Campag's 44 of the era allowed for the five speed 14-18 'block' to be lugged over a tad more hill, thus avoiding the dreaded 14/15/16/18/21 or so that could mess up one's finishing sprint gear.

Eventually, I made it to an all Campag Nueovo Record rig - but still with that Zeus 43T inner!

Who mentioned brakes? Don't be daft - why spend money on stuff that's only there to slow you down! The racer's brake of choice were from Weinneman - cheap and light 'sidepull' callipers.

Now, you have vast choice!

Insanely pricey Campag made in Italy. Cheaper Campag, made somewhere else that might understand Italian . SRAM - marketed in the US, made in - I wonder where? Shimano at all prices - loosely Japanese, but likely made next door to SRAM. 

Cheap Chinese stuff - I wonder where that comes from?

I envy good little consumers who buy what and when they are told. Life must be so simplistic  Wish I could rush out and buy electronic shifting and thus destroy all on my wheel with a flash of my credit card...

D


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

Dereck said:


> For those wondering - I really wanted to try Campag, as that's what I rode when I took this bike riding thing seriously. But the levers were too small for my hands and I didn't like scratting around for those little thumb shifters.


I'm using the 99 - 09 Campy Ergo levers now. I have small hands and Campy fits me well. Probably 80% of my riding is on the hoods. So, the thumb shifters are actually a benefit. Campy's version is more conveniently located that Shimano Sora's. Campy levers are also priced better than Shimano or SRAM. But every other part is more expensive.

If I switch from Campy it means a large investment. That's why I'm looking for those who've used all 3, or 4 if you include Microshift.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

kbwh said:


> In the name of God: My drive to Campagnolo is not religious.


Amen !


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## Dereck (Jan 31, 2005)

cs1 said:


> I'm using the 99 - 09 Campy Ergo levers now. I have small hands and Campy fits me well. Probably 80% of my riding is on the hoods. So, the thumb shifters are actually a benefit. Campy's version is more conveniently located that Shimano Sora's. Campy levers are also priced better than Shimano or SRAM. But every other part is more expensive.
> 
> If I switch from Campy it means a large investment. That's why I'm looking for those who've used all 3, or 4 if you include Microshift.


Seeing as you are using high qualitiy gear, which you have already bought, and are happy doing so, you're there. 

To switch to any other would take either spending or a lot of time bugging bike shops for test rides. My miserable experience with SRAM started because I thought ten minutes or so on a bike in the comfort of a shop trainer counted. Though in all honesty, I should have bought a frame and equipped it with my own choice of gear, not bought a 'bike in a box'.

So, at the usual internet rate for advice - if you like your Campag, stick with it.

D


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

cs1 said:


> OK, without trying to start a war, which company gives more bang for the buck? Now I'm riding a 10 sp Campy Daytona and Veloce bike. My brother has a Shimano 9 sp. We're going to put together a Surly Pacer for my wife this winter. SRAM really looks like a go but I'm heavily invested in Campy. After Campy dumbed down their shifters except for Chorus and Record, there really is no difference between the way they work and SRAM and Shimano do. You can't buy individual parts to rebuild either.
> 
> I dumped all my Campy 8 sp years ago when they discontinued support for them and upgraded to 10 sp. Now 10 sp seems to be on it's way to extinction.
> 
> Personally, I'm to the point that I don't care what I ride as long as it works and is affordable.


I think they all perform equally well and generally you get what you pay for. Shimano and SRAM dominate the US market so it is easier to find used parts.

Personal preferences depend a lot on when someone got into cycling. 1970ies and 1980ies - Campy. 90ies through 2005 - Shimano. Last 5-6 years - SRAM.
Also, if you are italophile and/or enjoy feeling of being smugly superior to everyone around you, Campy is for you. If you are more practical, get Shimano or SRAM. I would probably go all SRAM if I had freedom to do it, but I have a lot of older Shimano cassetes and other parts that leave me married to Shimano, which is just fine by me.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

robdamanii said:


> You're right. It's not feasible for everyone to ride high end bikes "moron." It IS feasible to stay on a budget and not buy crap because it's cheap. You don't seem to understand the difference between cheap and affordable, and you're getting your panties in a twist because someone disagrees with your (incorrect) post.


Please stop trolling up this thread.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Local Hero said:


> Please stop trolling up this thread.


Amazing how opinions are trolling now. You're a stitch, you know that?


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

55x11 said:


> I think they all perform equally well and generally you get what you pay for. Shimano and SRAM dominate the US market so it is easier to find used parts.
> 
> I think you mean parts from used assemblies.
> 
> ...


B-S. I think a lot of it it TRULY Inertia. Folks buy off the rack and the bike had Shimano or SRAM parts on it. People have to consciously choose Campagnolo; often because they are dissatisfied with Shimano or SRAM.

And what's practical about getting Shimano or SRAM? Totally ridiculous.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Living in Norway, the only thing I find more practical with SRAmano is rear wheel availability in a race. 
For on the road practicality STI and Double Tap don't even come close to Ultra Shift. They're even missing a cog.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

flatlander_48 said:


> B-S. I think a lot of it it TRULY Inertia. Folks buy off the rack and the bike had Shimano or SRAM parts on it. People have to consciously choose Campagnolo; often because they are dissatisfied with Shimano or SRAM.
> 
> *And what's practical about getting Shimano or SRAM?* Totally ridiculous.


The ability to get parts on short notice from a LBS, most of which don't stock Campy parts.


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## malanb (Oct 26, 2009)

55x11 said:


> Personal preferences depend a lot on when someone got into cycling. 1970ies and 1980ies - Campy. 90ies through 2005 - Shimano. Last 5-6 years - SRAM.
> Also, if you are italophile and/or enjoy feeling of being smugly superior to everyone around you, Campy is for you. If you are more practical, get Shimano or SRAM. I would probably go all SRAM if I had freedom to do it, but I have a lot of older Shimano cassetes and other parts that leave me married to Shimano, which is just fine by me.


Eeeeh NOT. I used to have shimano. I turned into campy 5 years ago. So your sram theory doesn't work neither your time period. I don't feel superior by using campag. or I am an italophile. It is just my 10 speed chorus was better and more durable than dura ace I had. I love the thumb lever and the shape of the ergos. Then came 11 speed with more ergonomic shifteres . I think it s better than. 10. And I love ULTRA TORQUE and the look of the complete group.


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## Dereck (Jan 31, 2005)

The sarcastic side of my nature has to admire how difficult Campag seems to make things. Not that I've done more than 'skimming', but they seem to involve a lot of specialist tools that wouldn't be bright buys for a guy like me who works on his own bikes.

Which drives one to drive one's bike to a shop with all these specialised tools...

Which, in a consumer society, has to be admired 

For a new chain fit, for an example,I can cut out excess from my favourite (read 'cheap-ish') KMC and join with a link that can be re-used relatively tool free. My one special tool is a Park Bros chain splitter I've had since re-starting riding, does as well on 10 as it did on 9 and even single speed, etc. Beats buying a new chain-specific tool and diddling around with replacement pins etc. Which I appreciate applies to both Campag and Shimano, if you follow the Manufacturer's Word.

The rest is, as rarely noticed, down to personal preferences in holding and gear shifting. Which is not well marketed and thus not as popular to some as it should be.

Though just a regular rider with a relatively small fleet of bikes, I do have my wife's riding comfort to deal with  and don't really like to spend nice days diddling with gear when it ain't my choice. Our Shimano rigs have performed fine, fitting and set-up only demand 'RTFM (Read The Flippin' Manual) and if I can get another 8 or so years out of my 10 speed sets, replacement may become a theoretical topic of vaguely mumbled conversation .

BTW - my Bob Jackson runs 'old' DA shifters - cheap new pull-offs from EBay - a DA front gear and grey Ultegra rear (ditto...) with a SRAM Force crank - as I think that the Shimano cranks are possibly the ugliest things ever put on bikes, but that's just me - and a KMC chain, see above. The SRAM bearings were not as good as the Shimano they replaced, but a little carefull adjustment of the BB shell width by my favourite mechanic covered that slight gap.

I keep a SRAM cassette in a box somewhere. It's a souvenir of my last foray into a 'Bike in Box' - that dismal Trek experience of mine - but doesn't get used on account of its cycling's equivalent of an old Caddy with a blown silencer/muffler, regardless of chain or circumstance of use.

It all works fine. Living in Chicago, hill climbing gears are largely unnecessary and as one who started out by racing on 10 and 5, I think I can get by on 20 under most circumstances

Of course, if I was a hot racer on my way up, I'd cheerfully ride and support whatever gear my team gave me 

D


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## olmo65 (Nov 14, 2011)

Campy for sure. One bit of Campy functionality I like is the Campy double dump (simultaneously change to the small ring and move to a bigger cog). I do this a lot on the rollers and the thumb shifters make this very simple to execute.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

I impatiently await the day Shimano introduces 11 speed cassettes. Then, I'll be able to afford the passe 10 speed DA cassettes.


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

robdamanii said:


> The ability to get parts on short notice from a LBS, most of which don't stock Campy parts.


6000+ miles and so far have not had a need for parts. I have replaced 2 RD's due to airline damage in transit. Both times downtime was 2 days...


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

flatlander_48 said:


> 6000+ miles and so far have not had a need for parts. I have replaced 2 RD's due to airline damage in transit. Both times downtime was 2 days...


Don't crash then.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

robdamanii said:


> The ability to get parts on short notice from a LBS, most of which don't stock Campy parts.


+1.... Also, if you're in a race and you're using Campy, you have to sometimes wait for a Campy equipsupport car to come by if you break down. Shimano and SRAM support cars are everywhere.


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

robdamanii said:


> Don't crash then.


What rash? I said airline damage.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

flatlander_48 said:


> What rash? I said airline damage.


You missed the point.

Crash + broken parts + no LBS stock = sitting in the hotel for a couple days.


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## mixmaster (Sep 9, 2011)

My vote is for Campy, Seems like everyone I have talked to who owns Campy loves how long it lasts and they say it gets better as it rides in. 

One day I hope to build up a bike with Campy gear, most likely Not Record as that is beyond my means.


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

robdamanii said:


> You missed the point.
> 
> Crash + broken parts + no LBS stock = sitting in the hotel for a couple days.


Doesn't really apply in my case. The trips to Taiwan were not personal trips. They were for expatriate assignments or home leaves during those assignments. Also, you have to remember this is the land of Giant and Shimano.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

flatlander_48 said:


> Doesn't really apply in my case. The trips to Taiwan were not personal trips. They were for expatriate assignments or home leaves during those assignments. Also, you have to remember this is the land of Giant and Shimano.


Well that's great. For those who are allowed to ride when they're away from their garage, the ability to get a spare part when something breaks or is damaged in a crash can certainly be important.

The simple fact is Campy is not available everywhere. That's a definite downside to it, if you agree or not.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

motobecane69 said:


> doesn't matter if you upgraded the wheels, grips and saddle, those things get upgraded on every manf bike. lets face it, when we talk about a manf bike, we are talking about the frame only. Fuji, trek, cannondale, pinarello etc aren't making their own shifters and components, they are building frames and putting one of the big 3's components on them. Are we really supposed to believe that all these bike companies have different types of frames that are so different, unique and better? of course not, they have different molds with different aesthetics and paint schemes, thats it.


That BD Motobecane is an amazing deal. It's not a crappy frame. In fact, the bike above is a rebadged version of the famous Fuji Track Pro- which is used by the UCLA Team and several other intermediate and pro track teams. That bike is no joke!! BTW the ones ou see were really cheap are usually leftover 2008,2009, 2010 models. New ones sell for $1200 to $1500 so that BD bike is a smokin deal!! Wish I had known about it before I bought my NOS 2010 Fuji Track Pro frameset a month ago. I should've researched more before buying this one. Pretty sure that the Moto would've been the route I would've taken too.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

robdamanii said:


> Or it could be "we're so desperate to get people to ride our gear we'll essentially give it away."
> 
> That sounds more appropriate to me.
> 
> Actually, what really sounds appropriate to me is adding a forum entitled "Cheap Bastard's Bikes and Parts" It would probably be the most popular forum here, especially since nobody gives a damn about quality and only buys on price these days.


Hogwash!!! If that's the case, SRAM is total shite!! It's cheaper than Shimano and Campy. Of course we know your claim is utter nonsense because SRAM makes a darn good product. How about Microshift is also less expensive because you are getting it directly from the manufacturer. SRAM and Shimano are made in Asia too but with all of the channels the product goes through before it reaches the LBS, it comes as no surprise that it costs what it does. Even ordering from them costs quite a bit because every level of the product goes through a price increase. you have not just the factory making money but all of the vendors that it changes hands through as well. SRAM started off selling at a higher dollar so we assumed that the stuff was good. I'm sure that if Microshift did that, but at a slightly lower cost than SRAM, This wouldn't even be a consideration.

I've seen this mentality before. There was a college here in the US that was one of the least expensive colleges in the US. Not enough students were applying. Last year, they raised their tuition fees to some crazy number and now the number of people applying went through the roof. Go figure.


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## mrcreosote (Sep 9, 2010)

olmo65 said:


> Campy for sure. One bit of Campy functionality I like is the Campy double dump (simultaneously change to the small ring and move to a bigger cog). I do this a lot on the rollers and the thumb shifters make this very simple to execute.


My favourite campy move is to change to a smaller cog (bigger gear) while my hands are still on the bar tops, by pushing the 'button' with my ring finger


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

terbennett said:


> Hogwash!!! If that's the case, SRAM is total shite!! It's cheaper than Shimano and Campy. Of course we know your claim is utter nonsense because SRAM makes a darn good product. How about Microshift is also less expensive because you are getting it directly from the manufacturer. SRAM and Shimano are made in Asia too but with all of the channels the product goes through before it reaches the LBS, it comes as no surprise that it costs what it does. Even ordering from them costs quite a bit because every level of the product goes through a price increase. you have not just the factory making money but all of the vendors that it changes hands through as well. SRAM started off selling at a higher dollar so we assumed that the stuff was good. I'm sure that if Microshift did that, but at a slightly lower cost than SRAM, This wouldn't even be a consideration.
> 
> I've seen this mentality before. There was a college here in the US that was one of the least expensive colleges in the US. Not enough students were applying. Last year, they raised their tuition fees to some crazy number and now the number of people applying went through the roof. Go figure.


Not only is Microsh!t cheaper because it's direct, it's cheaper because the quality is lacking, the quality control is poor, the materials are cheap, and the whole product is poorly refined.

You get what you pay for in this market. You buy crap, you get crap. Most people get that. There is a select group that's out to spend as little as possible on everything, and that's ok too. But pretending like the bottom of the barrel group is just as good as offerings from the major manufacturers is silly.

If Microsh!t was truly such a great, economical choice, there would be far more people using it, and far more companies speccing it on lower end models.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

robdamanii said:


> The simple fact is Campy is not available everywhere. That's a definite downside to it, if you agree or not.


 Being aware of that, I have a stash of spare parts at home. Chains, quick links, derailers, cassettes. So I don't have to order them and wait in case of need.


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

Salsa_Lover said:


> Being aware of that, I have a stash of spare parts at home. Chains, quick links, derailers, cassettes. So I don't have to order them and wait in case of need.


I'm at that point now. I can't decide to stock up on spares or dump everything and go Shimano or SRAM. Which is why I started the thread in the first place. Campy used to be my favorite despite cost and availability because the advantages outweighed the disadvantages. Now only Chorus and above have the features Campy users want. That makes Athena and below functionally the same as Shimano/SRAM at more money.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

flatlander_48 said:


> At this moment, I am in Taiwan in a city of about 1,000,000 and, as I said, this is the land of Giant and Shimano. Several years ago, the RD was broken during the airline handling on the way here. At that point, I didn't know of any mid to highend bike shops, soI went to an independent Giant guy. He got me a replacement Centaur RD, the same as I had, in 2 days.
> 
> The second time me RD was broken, it was maybe a year later when returning to the US. I live in NYS in a town of 11,000 with one bike shop. Again, that guy got a new Centaur RD and I was riding again in 2 days.
> 
> Interesting thing is that neither shop owner had much experience with Campagnolo. However, both did a competent job in replacing and adjusting the new derailleur.


I'm very familiar where Elmira is, TYVM.

If you travel to...North Carolina (for example) and you're riding for a couple days, a broken derailleur and no shop stocking any replacement parts ends your riding. That is the benefit of Shimano/SRAM: they will be stocking at least SOME variety of SRAM/Shimano derailleur/brakeset/shifter/whatever.


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

robdamanii said:


> Well that's great. For those who are allowed to ride when they're away from their garage, the ability to get a spare part when something breaks or is damaged in a crash can certainly be important.
> 
> The simple fact is Campy is not available everywhere. That's a definite downside to it, if you agree or not.


At this moment, I am in Taiwan in a city of about 1,000,000 and, as I said, this is the land of Giant and Shimano. Several years ago, the RD was broken during the airline handling on the way here. At that point, I didn't know of any mid to highend bike shops, soI went to an independent Giant guy. He got me a replacement Centaur RD, the same as I had, in 2 days.

The second time me RD was broken, it was maybe a year later when returning to the US. I live in NYS in a town of 11,000 with one bike shop. Again, that guy got a new Centaur RD and I was riding again in 2 days.

Interesting thing is that neither shop owner had much experience with Campagnolo. However, both did a competent job in replacing and adjusting the new derailleur.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

flatlander_48 said:


> Actually I live in Corning, which is 11,000 and the better part of a half hour from Elmira.
> 
> Still, what you call a benefit is not enough of an inducement for me.


Maybe it's not for you, but that's the point. It IS enough of a benefit for a lot of people to steer them away from Campy. Never mind they can't hardly get their hands on it before purchasing to even look at them...

Corning is a hell of a lot nicer than Elmira, too.


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

robdamanii said:


> I'm very familiar where Elmira is, TYVM.
> 
> If you travel to...North Carolina (for example) and you're riding for a couple days, a broken derailleur and no shop stocking any replacement parts ends your riding. That is the benefit of Shimano/SRAM: they will be stocking at least SOME variety of SRAM/Shimano derailleur/brakeset/shifter/whatever.


Actually I live in Corning, which is 11,000 and the better part of a half hour from Elmira.

Still, what you call a benefit is not enough of an inducement for me.


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

robdamanii said:


> Not only is Microsh!t cheaper because it's direct, it's cheaper because the quality is lacking, the quality control is poor, the materials are cheap, and the whole product is poorly refined.
> 
> You get what you pay for in this market. You buy crap, you get crap. Most people get that. There is a select group that's out to spend as little as possible on everything, and that's ok too. But pretending like the bottom of the barrel group is just as good as offerings from the major manufacturers is silly.
> 
> If Microsh!t was truly such a great, economical choice, there would be far more people using it, and far more companies speccing it on lower end models.


I'm pretty sure I'm a lot older than you are. When I started riding seriously in the mid Seventies Campagnolo was the king of the high end. SunTour was a close second and most people thought it was of equal quality at a cheaper price. Shimano didn't have as much of a market share as SunTour.

Jump forward 30 years. SunTour went bankrupt. Campy has about 1% of the market and Shimano owns about 90% of the market. SRAM, where did they come from, is challenging Shimano like Shimano challenged SunTour. Don't sell Microshift short. The Taiwanese are incredibly smart and highly industrialized. Plus they listen to the market. Shimano tells the market what to do like it or not.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

cs1 said:


> I'm pretty sure I'm a lot older than you are. When I started riding seriously in the mid Seventies Campagnolo was the king of the high end. SunTour was a close second and most people thought it was of equal quality at a cheaper price. Shimano didn't have as much of a market share as SunTour.
> 
> Jump forward 30 years. SunTour went bankrupt. Campy has about 1% of the market and Shimano owns about 90% of the market. SRAM, where did they come from, is challenging Shimano like Shimano challenged SunTour. Don't sell Microshift short. The Taiwanese are incredibly smart and highly industrialized. Plus they listen to the market. *Shimano tells the market what to do like it or not.*


And they have the quality and market share to dictate that.

Microsh!t does not and will not have that. They do not have enough of a draw to bring people away from the big 3, especially with the poor shifting interface and poor quality.


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

robdamanii said:


> And they have the quality and market share to dictate that.
> 
> Microsh!t does not and will not have that. They do not have enough of a draw to bring people away from the big 3, especially with the poor shifting interface and poor quality.


Things change.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

cs1 said:


> Things change.


I'd put my money on microsh!t never playing anything more than a bit part in the component wars.

If you think differently, well that's your own issue.


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## Sterba (Nov 6, 2011)

*nexus gears*

I have a bike with a seven speed Nexus hub gear incorporating a hub brake. It works well and the gears and brake are both properly adjusted. However, on the bike stand, the wheel stops spinning very soon after you stop turning the pedals, ie it doesn't freewheel very well. This drag can be seen if I freewheel alongside someone else with a deraillieur-geared bike. Is this normal?


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

Sterba said:


> I have a bike with a seven speed Nexus hub gear incorporating a hub brake. It works well and the gears and brake are both properly adjusted. However, on the bike stand, the wheel stops spinning very soon after you stop turning the pedals, ie it doesn't freewheel very well. This drag can be seen if I freewheel alongside someone else with a deraillieur-geared bike. Is this normal?


Not exactly what this thread is about but here goes. Yes that is normal with most IGH, internally geared hubs. Remember, there are a lot of parts and friction going on in that shell. Good luck


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## Sterba (Nov 6, 2011)

OK, Thanks, I'll have to live with it then.


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## Staylucky (May 2, 2013)

I'm kind of weird when it comes to components, I always look for alternatives to the big 3. Probably because of price and partly because I like to tinker. 

I LIKE Microshift but it took some getting used to and they are bit noisy when shifting compared to the others. Besides that, they are very good and with the price point I would have trouble going back to the big three.

I LOVE FSA crank sets. They are sturdy, stiff and light enough for me, look amazing and work perfectly with my shimano and microshift components.

I've used Tektro brakes but I don't think they are great, rather flimsy at high speeds but will do the job for almost all recreational riders. 

One of my current bikes has a full Shimano 105 5700 Group but with the Tiagra group coming out with 10 speed system, I feel like I've thrown money away because the 2 are so close in quality and performance I feel like Shimano should drop the 105 line altogether now.


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