# Wheel issue, cracking around spoke nipple.



## Ventura Roubaix (Oct 10, 2009)

I notice a hairline crack around the spoke nipple on my rear wheel. This is not the first time I've had a issue with cracks on the rear wheel. I had a set of ROL Volants(24 rear,20 fr) for about 10 months and notice one day that 10 of the drive side spokes had cracks in the wheel around the spoke nipple, I called ROL and they sent me a replacement set of Volants RT wheels(28 rear, 24 fr). The RT's have 28 spokes on the rear instead of 24 on the Volants. I have had the RT's for about 10 months and the rear now has a crack around the spoke nipple. So my main question is how long can I continue to run this wheel before I have to replace it and is it safe to run it.
My next question is if I replace this wheel I'm looking at either a Mavic Open Pro 32 spoke 3x, or a DT Swiss 465 32 spoke 3x as I will only need a rear wheel I have 3 good fronts. I'm looking at buying it from either Colorado Cyclist or a local shop which is a hour away. Which would be better the Mavic Open Pro or the Dt Swiss 465. Both will be built with 14/15 ga spokes alloy nipples and a Ultegra 6700 hub. The wheel would be cheaper from Colorado cyclist. I'm a big guy 6'2'' and about 220, and seem to be hard on wheels. Would this be a good built for me.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Rim loads*



Ventura Roubaix said:


> I notice a hairline crack around the spoke nipple on my rear wheel. This is not the first time I've had a issue with cracks on the rear wheel. I had a set of ROL Volants(24 rear,20 fr) for about 10 months and notice one day that 10 of the drive side spokes had cracks in the wheel around the spoke nipple, I called ROL and they sent me a replacement set of Volants RT wheels(28 rear, 24 fr). The RT's have 28 spokes on the rear instead of 24 on the Volants. I have had the RT's for about 10 months and the rear now has a crack around the spoke nipple. So my main question is how long can I continue to run this wheel before I have to replace it and is it safe to run it.
> My next question is if I replace this wheel I'm looking at either a Mavic Open Pro 32 spoke 3x, or a DT Swiss 465 32 spoke 3x as I will only need a rear wheel I have 3 good fronts. I'm looking at buying it from either Colorado Cyclist or a local shop which is a hour away. Which would be better the Mavic Open Pro or the Dt Swiss 465. Both will be built with 14/15 ga spokes alloy nipples and a Ultegra 6700 hub. The wheel would be cheaper from Colorado cyclist. I'm a big guy 6'2'' and about 220, and seem to be hard on wheels. Would this be a good built for me.


Essentially, rim cracks at the nipples means that the spoke tension was too high for the rim. Low spoke count wheels are either going to be more susceptible to cracking or need to have heavy rims to prevent this. Someone of your weight probably never should have been on 24 spoke rear wheels, and though you will get people who argue this point, 28 was probably not that great an idea either. 

Colorado Cyclist has a good reputation for building wheels. What is the reputation of your local shop? The MAVIC OP is a popular rim so you tend to hear about more problems with them just because they are so numerous - problems like noises and rim cracking at the spoke holes. Velocity Aeroheads have a good reputation, and Velocity DeepV would be bullet proof for you as would MAVIC CXP 33, though you would add 200 gm to the wheel set (not a real concern when the rider weighs 220 lb.).


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## FBinNY (Jan 24, 2009)

+1 on excess spoke tension being the issue. Over the last few years it's become fashionable to use ever higher tension on built wheels. The prevailing concept seems to be tight is good, tighter is better and tightest is best.

Unfortunately that isn't true. While many rims can handle very high spoke tension, not all can. When you see stress cracking at the spoke holes it means the the dead load of the spoke tension is too high leaving no room for the added dynamic loads, and the rim can't take it.


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## LookDave (Sep 29, 2007)

Had the same issue with a ROL Volant 24 spoke rear wheel, and I weigh 175. On the other hand, rode a set of Velocity Aeroheads for 3 years, 32 spokes laced 3 cross, with no problems whatsoever. Gotta agree with the thoughts about lower spoke counts and too much tension on too many factory wheels.


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## Ventura Roubaix (Oct 10, 2009)

*That is what I thought, high tension.*

But thay may be mainly my fault on the second set (Volant RT's), as I have trued the wheels myself several times and may have got the tension too high, probably. Even though I was trying to be careful. I don't really know anything about the local shop as I have only been in it one time and just happen to talked to the wheel builder he seem to know what he was talking about, but I have limited knowledge about wheels. That why I was asking about the (Mavic OP an The DT Swiss 465's, as Mavic's and DT's are the only make shown on Colorado Cyclist's website.) The local shop may give me more choices on rims but was higher on the DT's build I asked him to quote.


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

*my experience*



Ventura Roubaix said:


> I notice a hairline crack around the spoke nipple on my rear wheel. This is not the first time I've had a issue with cracks on the rear wheel. I had a set of ROL Volants(24 rear,20 fr) for about 10 months and notice one day that 10 of the drive side spokes had cracks in the wheel around the spoke nipple, I called ROL and they sent me a replacement set of Volants RT wheels(28 rear, 24 fr). The RT's have 28 spokes on the rear instead of 24 on the Volants. I have had the RT's for about 10 months and the rear now has a crack around the spoke nipple. So my main question is how long can I continue to run this wheel before I have to replace it and is it safe to run it.
> My next question is if I replace this wheel I'm looking at either a Mavic Open Pro 32 spoke 3x, or a DT Swiss 465 32 spoke 3x as I will only need a rear wheel I have 3 good fronts. I'm looking at buying it from either Colorado Cyclist or a local shop which is a hour away. Which would be better the Mavic Open Pro or the Dt Swiss 465. Both will be built with 14/15 ga spokes alloy nipples and a Ultegra 6700 hub. The wheel would be cheaper from Colorado cyclist. I'm a big guy 6'2'' and about 220, and seem to be hard on wheels. Would this be a good built for me.


I have had this happen 4 times. All on rear wheel drive side. Two of these were Colorado Cyclists wheels (Mavic OpenPro 32 DB spokes), one an OEM wheel (Ambrosio) and one a wheel the shop built. I don't think any of these were over tensioned. (I had a thread on this a few months ago and checked the tension with the Park tensionometer). In all but one case the wheel had many thousands of miles on it. BTW I am not down on CC wheels. They are much cheaper than going to a shop and have stayed true for me. 

As for safety, I doubt it will fail catastrophically, The crack will get bigger and the spoke will begin to pull out causing the wheel to go out of true. I would just face the inevitable and replace it now


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## Ventura Roubaix (Oct 10, 2009)

*Online wheel builders?*

First thanks for the reply's. As I have mention before I'm looking at Colorado cyclist as one of the places I may buy a wheel from, I have also looked At Excel Sports as one of my choices as they are a little cheaper. So what other sites or build spec would you suggest. I'm looking at a DT Swiss 465 rim, double butted 14/15 ga spokes, dt swiss I think, alloy nipples(I know some will say brass, but I have never had a issue with nipples) and a Ultegra 6700 hub, Colo cyclist doesn't list 105. I want to try and keep the weight down some, but also want a strong durable wheel.


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## Ventura Roubaix (Oct 10, 2009)

*Also I would like to keep the price around or below.*



ventura roubaix said:


> first thanks for the reply's. As i have mention before i'm looking at colorado cyclist as one of the places i may buy a wheel from, i have also looked at excel sports as one of my choices as they are a little cheaper. So what other sites or build spec would you suggest. I'm looking at a dt swiss 465 rim, double butted 14/15 ga spokes, dt swiss i think, alloy nipples(i know some will say brass, but i have never had a issue with nipples) and a ultegra 6700 hub, colo cyclist doesn't list 105. I want to try and keep the weight down some, but also want a strong durable wheel.



250.00


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

*nothing wrong with that spec*



Ventura Roubaix said:


> First thanks for the reply's. As I have mention before I'm looking at Colorado cyclist as one of the places I may buy a wheel from, I have also looked At Excel Sports as one of my choices as they are a little cheaper. So what other sites or build spec would you suggest. I'm looking at a DT Swiss 465 rim, double butted 14/15 ga spokes, dt swiss I think, alloy nipples(I know some will say brass, but I have never had a issue with nipples) and a Ultegra 6700 hub, Colo cyclist doesn't list 105. I want to try and keep the weight down some, but also want a strong durable wheel.


I think what you propose is fine. I'd probably skip the alloy nipples but that a preference. CC does not sell 105 stuff. I have not had any experience with Excel wheels. I have one set of CC wheels in use now (OpenPro/Chorus) with 8 seasons of use. They have never been trued. As I mentioned in prior post I have had 2 rim stress cracks before with CC wheels, although I don't necessarily attribute that to the CC build


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## kneadking (Jul 2, 2011)

I have had the same issue with my Mavic Open Pro rims laced to Campagnolo Record hubs. I had the rear rebuilt with the same open pro 32 hole rim and about a year later I have the same problem, mainly on the drive side spokes. I read on peter whites web site about this problem and in his 30 years of experience the problem lies with the large dish of the Campy hubs and he recommends the Velocity OC rims which are available in the synergy or aerohead rims. I have only had the problem on the rear wheel because that is where the dish occures

I hope this will be of some help.


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## Ventura Roubaix (Oct 10, 2009)

*Velocity OC rims.*



kneadking said:


> I have had the same issue with my Mavic Open Pro rims laced to Campagnolo Record hubs. I had the rear rebuilt with the same open pro 32 hole rim and about a year later I have the same problem, mainly on the drive side spokes. I read on peter whites web site about this problem and in his 30 years of experience the problem lies with the large dish of the Campy hubs and he recommends the Velocity OC rims which are available in the synergy or aerohead rims. I have only had the problem on the rear wheel because that is where the dish occures
> 
> I hope this will be of some help.


The Velocity OC rim is that mainly for the Campy hubs or will that be a benefit for something like a Ultegra 6700 hub also, or something similar.


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

*offset rims*



Ventura Roubaix said:


> The Velocity OC rim is that mainly for the Campy hubs or will that be a benefit for something like a Ultegra 6700 hub also, or something similar.


A rear rim with offset should be any benefit regardless of the bub. The intent is to reduce the dish and keep spoke tension between drive and non-drive more even. After my Ambrosio rim cracked, the ship rebuilt the Veloce hub with an Aerohead OC and I've put a few seasons on it with no issues. Do note the the Velocity's do not use nipples


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## Ventura Roubaix (Oct 10, 2009)

DaveG said:


> A rear rim with offset should be any benefit regardless of the bub. The intent is to reduce the dish and keep spoke tension between drive and non-drive more even. After my Ambrosio rim cracked, the ship rebuilt the Veloce hub with an Aerohead OC and I've put a few seasons on it with no issues. Do note the the Velocity's do not use nipples


So the spoke screws directly into the rim? You think this is a good idea for someone having rim stress cracking issues?


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

*so far, so good*



Ventura Roubaix said:


> So the spoke screws directly into the rim? You think this is a good idea for someone having rim stress cracking issues?


I would normally prefer a rim with eyelets but the shop owner talked me into the Velocity. Plus, the Velocity was almost half the price of a Mavic OP so I went for it. I've been using it a few seasons with no issues so far. FWIW the Ambosio Balance it replaced was also non-eyeleted and I did get over 10K miles out of it before it cracked


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## Ventura Roubaix (Oct 10, 2009)

DaveG said:


> I would normally prefer a rim with eyelets but the shop owner talked me into the Velocity. Plus, the Velocity was almost half the price of a Mavic OP so I went for it. I've been using it a few seasons with no issues so far. FWIW the Ambosio Balance it replaced was also non-eyeleted and I did get over 10K miles out of it before it cracked


Dave in your first post about the Velocity your said "Do note the the Velocity's do not use nipples" then above you said "I would normally prefer a rim with eyelets but the shop owner talked me into the Velocity". Not trying to be a smart-ass but i'm confused as to which one it is I figure you meant that it doesn't have eyelets for I haven't seen a wheel without spoke nipples. Even though there are probably some exotic wheels out there without them.


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

*misspoke*



Ventura Roubaix said:


> Dave in your first post about the Velocity your said "Do note the the Velocity's do not use nipples" then above you said "I would normally prefer a rim with eyelets but the shop owner talked me into the Velocity". Not trying to be a smart-ass but i'm confused as to which one it is I figure you meant that it doesn't have eyelets for I haven't seen a wheel without spoke nipples. Even though there are probably some exotic wheels out there without them.


Sorry, I meant to say that the Velocity's don't use eyelets. Like you, I have not seen a rim that does not use nipples. However, I now plan to invent one and make claims of tremendous weight reductions and unbelievable aerodynamics in my marketing blitz


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## FBinNY (Jan 24, 2009)

DaveG said:


> .... However, I now plan to invent one and make claims of tremendous weight reductions and unbelievable aerodynamics in my marketing blitz


You're a few decades too late. Long ago, Cane Creek and others offered wheels with the nipples at the hub end of straight-pull spokes, with the rim drilled about the size hub spoke holes. And yes, they claimed better strength, better aero, lower rotational inertia, and an improved sex life.


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## axebiker (Aug 22, 2003)

20/24 for a 220#? I think you've ID'd the problem.


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