# The *REAL* reason Fabian lost (besides no motor in his frame )



## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

He was RIDING A TREK...

How can you go to TREK after DESTROYING everyone on a SPECIALIZED??


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

but congrat to johan.. Who would have thought Cervelo win??


Thor did the right thing.. and not ride for Fabian as his boy was up the road..

but did Belan have a man up the road? I couldn't tell and didn't think so.. he should have helped.


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## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

bas said:


> but congrat to johan.. Who would have thought Cervelo win??
> 
> 
> Thor did the right thing.. and not ride for Fabian as his boy was up the road..
> ...


I lose track of inter-team traveling during the offseason. Did Thor have a teammate further up? If so, I take back most of what I said about him today. I'm sure he'll be relieved.

///I get it now. Because of his World Champ colors I didn't realize what team he was on.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Ballan did not have anyone once the chase group was cought. I was stoked to see Gregory Rast get some attention too. He is a huge reason The Shack/Astana/Discovery had so much Tour success. He delivers the riders to the base of the climbs after riding in the wind for 100k.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

The real reason Cancellara didn't win is that he's a MARKED MAN. All the favorites swarm around him. None of the big names want to make a move until Fabian makes it first. That's called negative racing. It's why Stijn Devolder won 2 Flanders titles when he raced on QuickStep, everyone was marking Boonen.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

fornaca68 said:


> The real reason Cancellara didn't win is that he's a MARKED MAN. All the favorites swarm around him. None of the big names want to make a move until Fabian makes it first. That's called negative racing. It's why Stijn Devolder won 2 Flanders titles when he raced on QuickStep, everyone was marking Boonen.


So the bike has nothing to do with it?

Lance lost last year cuz he had look pedals instead of duraace. he would have never clipped the road and gone down at 35+ mph.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

fornaca68 said:


> The real reason Cancellara didn't win is that he's a MARKED MAN.


And the other big man, Boonen, was out, which meant there Cancellara got everyone's attention.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

fornaca68 said:


> The real reason Cancellara didn't win is that he's a MARKED MAN. All the favorites swarm around him. None of the big names want to make a move until Fabian makes it first. That's called negative racing. It's why Stijn Devolder won 2 Flanders titles when he raced on QuickStep, everyone was marking Boonen.


I tend to agree (though he might have been faster on a Specialized  ) - he got Boonened - nobody wanted to help him move up - except, it seemed, Gamin who rode tempo for a while while VanSum was down the road :mad2: - Spartacus finally got pissed and made a hard-core move - should have done it earlier but was probably worried he would lose the sprint to Thor, who was glued to his wheel. Pity Boonen and Chavanel crashed out - suspect we would have had a different result if they had not.

Great Spartacus quote: "If I had stopped for coffee, they would have done the same. They never got off my wheel."


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

and that is what makes Boonen's back to back victories at Flanders that much more impressive. Being marked and still coming up with the goods. He got 2nd in Roubaix that year as well. 
Fabian rode great but was out positioned. Ballan did have a rider up the road as well to answer bas's query.


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## jhamlin38 (Oct 29, 2005)

I would say that Leopard lost PR for Cancellara more than anything. They should have had a rider in the 17-20 man break. His effort to take 2nd was as impressive as his win last year. I think his wins are as sensational as any i've ever seen. His strength is impressive, and unmatched.


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## ghostryder (Dec 28, 2009)

I saw one pro cyclist, and a bunch of amateurs. It was hard to watch.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

bas said:


> So the bike has nothing to do with it?
> 
> Lance lost last year cuz he had look pedals instead of duraace. he would have never clipped the road and gone down at 35+ mph.


The bike??? You can't be serious. You give Cancellara any frame or wheelset or group set used by any Pro Tour team and he will scorch the Earth just the same.

Lance? He clipped on the asphalt because his head was out of the game or bad luck, take your pick. Who was the dude that said, "it's not about the bike"?


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

jhamlin38 said:


> I would say that Leopard lost PR for Cancellara more than anything. They should have had a rider in the 17-20 man break. His effort to take 2nd was as impressive as his win last year. I think his wins are as sensational as any i've ever seen. His strength is impressive, and unmatched.


Agree. Cancellara is a human motorcycle. The way he accelerated away with about 15 km to go -- after 5 hours of grinding it out on the cobbles -- was surreal.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

spookyload said:


> Ballan did not have anyone once the chase group was cought. I was stoked to see Gregory Rast get some attention too. He is a huge reason The Shack/Astana/Discovery had so much Tour success. He delivers the riders to the base of the climbs after riding in the wind for 100k.


I thought Ballan had Manuel Quinziato up front.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

jhamlin38 said:


> I would say that Leopard lost PR for Cancellara more than anything. They should have had a rider in the 17-20 man break. His effort to take 2nd was as impressive as his win last year. I think his wins are as sensational as any i've ever seen. His strength is impressive, and unmatched.


I don't think having a teammate, say O'Grady, around would help Cancellara one bit.
The reason he wasn't willing to do any more work wasn't that he was getting tired, it was mostly because he didn't want to drag Thor to the finish line.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

55x11 said:


> I don't think having a teammate, say O'Grady, around would help Cancellara one bit.
> The reason he wasn't willing to do any more work wasn't that he was getting tired, it was mostly because he didn't want to drag Thor to the finish line.


A strong Leopard rider in the break would tend to neutralize it; he could just suck wheels all day knowing that Cancellara was behind him. Instead, Thor got to do all the wheel-sucking, knowing he had a teammate up front and Cancellara didn't. Tactics 101.


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## SantaCruz (Mar 22, 2002)

pretender said:


> Tactics 101.


Fabian is a marked man - Yes. But Leopard-Trek has been super bad in the Classics. It's a team game not an individual TT.


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## agm2 (Sep 18, 2008)

pretender said:


> A strong Leopard rider in the break would tend to neutralize it; he could just suck wheels all day knowing that Cancellara was behind him. Instead, Thor got to do all the wheel-sucking, knowing he had a teammate up front and Cancellara didn't. Tactics 101.


First, funny thread BAS

Let's not tell Leopard this basic tactic because then they might use it next year and it won't be exciting. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have figured it out:mad2:


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

ghostryder said:


> I saw one pro cyclist, and a bunch of amateurs. It was hard to watch.



I don't get this.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

FC has become a Prima Donna. Patron? Give me a break! He is a one trick pony. 
Sport always finds a way of punishing hubris.

Motto: Never believe your own publicity.


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## roadie92 (Jan 21, 2008)

"If I had stopped for coffee, they would have done the same. They never got off my wheel." Cancellara. Nuff said!


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

albert owen said:


> FC has become a Prima Donna. Patron? Give me a break! He is a one trick pony.


2nd in a sprint from the break in MSR
1st @ E3 from crushing solo escape from a large group
3rd @ Flanders from repeated attacking with unwilling partners
2nd @ Roubaix the same way as Flanders

That's 3 tricks and the highest finishing average in the spring classics that I can remember. He is every bit as good as claimed. It's extremely hard to win (should be a period here..) when everyone is looking to you and only a little less hard to get on the podium.


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

fornaca68 said:


> *The bike??? You can't be serious*. You give Cancellara any frame or wheelset or group set used by any Pro Tour team and he will scorch the Earth just the same.
> 
> Lance? He clipped on the asphalt because his head was out of the game or bad luck, take your pick. Who was the dude that said, "it's not about the bike"?


This was my reaction. A bike is a bike is a bike. 


Do Treks make good bikes?


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## Travis (Oct 14, 2005)

jhamlin38 said:


> I would say that Leopard lost PR for Cancellara more than anything. They should have had a rider in the 17-20 man break. His effort to take 2nd was as impressive as his win last year. I think his wins are as sensational as any i've ever seen. His strength is impressive, and unmatched.


Ding, Ding, Ding, having a strong teammate in the break would have made the difference. Its the standard counter tactic and Leopard didn't have the team to cover the moves coming out of the major sectors. The Schlecks brothers are not so good on cobbles unless glued to Cancellara's wheel


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## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

albert owen said:


> He is a one trick pony.


If I were a one trick pony and my one trick was repeatedly winning Paris-Roubaix, I'd be just fine with that.

Of course you seem to be forgetting the TT wins left and right and spending lots of days in yellow at the TDF.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

bas said:


> So the bike has nothing to do with it?
> 
> Lance lost last year cuz he had look pedals instead of duraace. he would have never clipped the road and gone down at 35+ mph.


 Yeah, not only did those steenkin Look pedals hit the ground, but they didn't know how to do the Dance....The Lance Dance on the pedals that Paul or Phil always go on so about.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

roadie92 said:


> "If I had stopped for coffee, they would have done the same. They never got off my wheel." Cancellara. Nuff said!


 I kinda like that one. 

I have a friend, a 'marked man' in most of the Masters races around here. Last season in a stage race the guy who was in second GC going into a pretty tough RR stated to the whole peloton at the start...."Stay off that wheel...(pointing to my buddy) that one is mine....I am gonna sit there all day and then win"....so my friend, who has a good sprint and is the current master's WC hears this. He has about two minutes in hand already....

So just before the crux climb...about half way round the first loop....he slows up and lets the pack go...knowing he can claw back anyhow...the second place guy sits right on his wheel still.....so my friend goes into a track stand...as the pack starts away up a 1700' very tough climb into a strong headwind, leaving him and his "bird-dog" track standing at the base of it...The wheel sucker is flabbergasted.."We're letting them go" he says..." Go before they get totally away" my buddy still stands......says nothing...

The wheel sucker finally goes around. My buddy then sits on His wheel for a while, up that whole climb, into a punishing headwind......mentioning his lead and saying something on the order of ...While I may be behind you here on the road...I am winning as long as I sit on your wheel....How do YOU like that??" He did simply drop the wheel sucker a bit later and went on to win the GC with help from our guys..

Can you imagine 'claiming a wheel as YOURS for the sucking and warning everyone else off? sheesh.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Gnarly 928 said:


> I kinda like that one.
> 
> I have a friend, a 'marked man' in most of the Masters races around here. Last season in a stage race the guy who was in second GC going into a pretty tough RR stated to the whole peloton at the start...."Stay off that wheel...(pointing to my buddy) that one is mine....I am gonna sit there all day and then win"....so my friend, who has a good sprint and is the current master's WC hears this. He has about two minutes in hand already....
> 
> ...


Interesting story.


The wheel sucker has a big mouth. he should have kept his strategy to himself :lol: !


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

bas said:


> So the bike has nothing to do with it?
> 
> Lance lost last year cuz he had look pedals instead of duraace. he would have never clipped the road and gone down at 35+ mph.


He crashed alot during his comeback because the new madone geometry made the bike handle differently than the one he used pre retirement. Those new madones are twitchy and have to be steered. Just to set the record straight


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Just to clarify one point here...FC didn't spend much time at the front all day. He had amazing strength at the end because he sat in all day waiting to make a move. Sure he made a few small attacks at the end to get a feel for his rivals, but until his big attack he never really spent any time in the wind. Had he made this "move" from 25k out, he would have caught the break and had a chance for the win like everyone else. Instead he sat in and waited to make the dramatic move. His bad tactics lost that race for him. Had he started with 10k to go, he still would have cought the break and would have been fresher than the guys who were baked in the break all day.


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## stiffee 69er (Nov 15, 2008)

dagger said:


> He crashed alot during his comeback because the new madone geometry made the bike handle differently than the one he used pre retirement. Those new madones are twitchy and have to be steered. Just to set the record straight


Cobblers.

Armstrong would have ridden many bikes throughout his career, made with different materials and different characteristics. I don't suppose the latest Trek would have troubled him.

He clearly has great bike handling skills as he demonstrated after Beloki's crash.

I'm not a particular fan of LA, but I don't think he'd blame the tools.

Remember, its not about the bike.


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

bas said:


> He was RIDING A TREK...
> 
> How can you go to TREK after DESTROYING everyone on a SPECIALIZED??


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

It didn't turned out as planned


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

DrRoebuck said:


> If I were a one trick pony and my one trick was repeatedly winning Paris-Roubaix, I'd be just fine with that.
> 
> Of course you seem to be forgetting the TT wins left and right and spending lots of days in yellow at the TDF.


Or how about that one time when he beat a bunch of sprinters at the 2007 TDF?


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