# Worst TdF you've ever seen?



## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

I'm going to have to say this is the worst Tour I've ever seen. Even worse than 1998. 

I think the reasons are obvious. Contador winning doesn't help matters. 

The blow to cycling in the US is going to be big, and that's not something we need.


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## gray8110 (Dec 11, 2001)

Einstruzende said:


> I'm going to have to say this is the worst Tour I've ever seen. Even worse than 1998.
> 
> I think the reasons are obvious. Contador winning doesn't help matters.
> 
> The blow to cycling in the US is going to be big, and that's not something we need.


I guess that having dopers win the TDF while we are ignorantly blissful is better than having the dopers get caught over-and-over again? Not necessarily arguing with you. It's definitely a painful race but there is something to remember about it and it was competitive.

The worst tour I've seen? 2002.. there was never a race. The only memorable event that I took from that race was Jalabert's two long solo escapades in the Pyrenees to take the KOM.

As to Contador winning? I have no more suspicion of Contador than I do of Evans or Leipheimer. Evans rode for Mapei when the allegations say that they were doping riders like crazy. Leipheimer's form fell apart last year when it was revealed that he had been in contact with Ferrari. Contador? The only reference in the Puerto investigation to him was taped phone conversations discussing his results.


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## snowman3 (Jul 20, 2002)

yes, it's the worst I've seen. I dunno if this is the biggest blow to cycling in the US though. I don't want to get into a whole LA thing, but I'd venture that US popularity dropped more from TdF '05 to TdF '07 than between TdF '07 and start of TdF '08.

I'm speaking about the general public, not popularity among the purists. I'd agree that purists are dropping from TdF '07 to '08 the most.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

gray8110 - I definitely think that ignorance is bliss in this case. I used to be very excited and get pumped up to see a big stage. Now all it seems to be is a precurser to someone getting thrown out.

Don't get me wrong, I want the riders to be clean. It's a catch 22 though. To be clean, we must go through this process which in turn makes me less interested.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

Didn't watch '98, but from my understanding, that was worse.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Actually.....It's the best I've seen in a while.

The first week was boring as usual, but from then on it was exciting, entertaining, dramatic, emotional, up and down and all out entertaining.

The climbing stages were fun to watch, Rasmussen and Contador battling it out. Cadel Evans getting cracked on every mountain top finish, Levi steady as usual and reeling in accelerations over time.

Two crashes that involved dogs and crappy dog owners.

Lots of intrigue around who was doping and who wasn't. Vino pulling himself back into the race only to be thrown out because of doping. Kloden working for Vino then losing all chance because the team left.

Rasmussen and his missing 22 days, getting fired, losing the Yellow jersey and being shamed by his team.

Questions surrounding Contador.

Soler very possibly being kicked out tomorrow?

It's been one heck of a race so far and in some ways you can't even make this stuff up. Worst Tour I've ever seen? Heck no....It's one of the best, most entertaining Tours I've ever seen.

Heck, I went into the Tour expecting riders to be doping and getting caught. That didn't ruin it for me.....I love this tour :thumbsup:


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

1998, 2002, 2004, 

This tour has been exciting. the climbing stages have been awesome.

I would rate this better than any of the Lance wins with the exception of 2003.

Your just mad cause Kloden got eliminated.

len


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## slowdave (Nov 29, 2005)

This tour from an entertainment spectical has been on of the best i have seen, started watching these inthe early 90s, attacks, and more attacks on the yellow and other top contenders. The slowest tours i watched was when LA would send the domestics to soften the group then one attack and the stage was won. two good ITT and the race is yours LA. This at least has all wondering if Levi or cadel will crack on the mountains, who will pull a Good ITT out of the bag and win the tour tonight. Yes there have been problems big problems but i feel that at least they are actching and removing the problems and thats not just the UCI its the teams. Look at the late 90s tours and see the large groups leading over all the big mountains and then look at now either there are a few now with really good Drs or the dopers are being caught.
just my opinions
slowdave


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

the weird thing about this tour has been the collapse of so many riders (and I don't mean because of doping charges).

Valverde: 10 minutes behind. disappeared on the climbs (passed by chicken on the TT-ouch). Highest paid protour ride (hope he's riding the Vuelta)

Schleck: 28 minutes behind. Thought this was going to be his breakout year.

Beltran: did his name ever get mentioned? ever climb with the lead group?

Makes you wonder if the differences in these guys performance this year was due to riding clean this year...

Crédit Agricole, Gerolsteiner, Euskaltel, Caisse d'Epargne, Agritubel -- did you actually have guys in the race?


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

I think it's one of the most exciting. Something new everyday. Sure beats most of the lance snoozathons....


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## kcd (Feb 4, 2002)

Definitely the worst -- the French press has said the Tour is dead in bold headlines.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

the tour hasn't really had a great duel between great riders for a long time. LA and Ullrich was always billed that way, but only once (03?) did it really work that way, and I don't think Ullrich ever had the lead. To those who haven't watched them, you should get the videos of 85, 86 Lemond-Hinault battles-awesome and so much tension it's unbelievable, 87 Roche-Delgado, especially La Plagne for an epic battle, 89 Lemond-Fignon, maybe the best tour of modern times, the jersey goes back and forth, mind games are unreal and the closest, most dramatic finish ever and inspiring to see Lemond come back and on a small team where he's isolated the whole time. Worst tour-maybe Lance's last (?) when he passes Ullrich in the opening prologue..


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## slamy (Mar 15, 2004)

Yeah the 1985-87 tours were my favorite. With the 87 tour, Roche going into oxygen debt at the top of a climb to basically win the tour by not losing too much time to Delgado for the final TT. Of couse the 1986 tour get's a lot of PR, but it really was that great. I still have my tapes that I recorded every sunday of that race. Lemond in his prime was something special. And Hinault was just as ballsy as they come. That SOB was attacking early in the mountains when he was in yellow and probably the best TT guy out there, But the best thing about those races is that the riders got tired, and had bad days. They would dig themselves holes one day then the next have to pull something out. Now you watch guys like Rasmussen ride up these mountains and not even look winded


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Great stages.

Results are an absolute joke though. Seriously, if you're a Disco fan at this point, God bless you. You probably believed Rumsfeld too.


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*Umm...*

Review the history.

1998 was A LOT worse than this.

That being said, this Tour has brought me up, and brought me down. Why? Well, doping has brought me down of course. Why up? Because of the dopers getting busted left and right. This actually, and I'm crossing my fingers here (for luck, not for trickery), might be a turning point in cycling in general, I hope.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

For doping perferdy - 1998
For sheer boredom - 2006
For one depressing news story after another - 2007
For perhaps some light at the end of the tunnel - 2007


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## turbogrover (Jan 1, 2006)

Wookiebiker said:


> It's been one heck of a race so far and in some ways you can't even make this stuff up. Worst Tour I've ever seen? Heck no....It's one of the best, most entertaining Tours I've ever seen....I love this tour :thumbsup:


X 2!
I agree! It's been very entertaining to watch. It's like a really intense soap opera being played out. I've been tuning in to all of the versus coverage, and reading as many news stories as I can find on the net. If you haven't enjoyed this years TDF, you must be a real puritanical cycling snob, because it's been great.


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## Pilas (Jun 12, 2007)

stevesbike said:


> the weird thing about this tour has been the collapse of so many riders (and I don't mean because of doping charges).
> 
> Valverde: 10 minutes behind. disappeared on the climbs (passed by chicken on the TT-ouch). Highest paid protour ride (hope he's riding the Vuelta)
> 
> ...


My question to you is: have YOU been watching the race? 
Euskatel has two riders in the top 11. According to the Tours stats, they are the team that has spent the most time in breakaways. Also, the guy that wears the white jersey now, Amets Churruca, rides fromEuskatel.
Just a little clarification here, in case you missed some of the action.

And in another note, why is it that some people think that Contador is not clean but Cadel is? Until proven otherwise, all the riders left are clean. It's OK to support one riders over another, but please enough with the baseless acussations. The guy is a very talented 24 year old bike riders and he deserves the beneffit of the doubt.


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

It's been interesting, but each rider being pulled out (Soler next?) makes the entire fascinating climbing portions utterly worthless. It's no different than if they just made a stage in cartoon format and made up the results. No different at all!


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## steelblue (Jul 16, 2007)

For me it was the 7 Armstrong years. There was no competition. Those years the race was for second place.


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

Pilas said:


> And in another note, why is it that some people think that Contador is not clean but Cadel is? Until proven otherwise, all the riders left are clean. It's OK to support one riders over another, but please enough with the baseless acussations. The guy is a very talented 24 year old bike riders and he deserves the beneffit of the doubt.



I can think of a few reasons. 
1. The "guy on top must be doped" syndrome. If Alberto climbed better than Cadel, he must be doped right? If Cadel had been outclimbing Alberto, then Cadel would be assumed to be doped. Only losers are clean right?
2. Nationalistic/linguistic bias. Cadel speaks English, so he must be cleaner than one of those dirty funny talking foreigners. 
3. Ignorant fans who know nothing about Alberto think he's some sudden, unexpected talent. They think his accelorations on the climbs are something brand new, some new trick he discovered in the past month. They figure since Alberto's performance was a shock to *them,* he must be doped. Before the Tour, or the season itself started, informed fans knew Alberto was a talent. 
Maybe if Alberto had followed wheels, dogged it in the TT, or refused to risk anything, he wouldn't be under suspicion.


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

*Anybody remember Big Mig?*

Some of his Tours were quite boring. He'd smoke the TT's with enough time to lay back in the mountains, without attacking. It was effective, but much like Lance, little drama for the overall. The real drama was the battle for the other podium spots. 
Of course it's boring if you only know about the overall competition, and are completely oblivious to the individual stage contests. 
And it's amazing that this Tour is still a three-way battle, will be decided by seconds, and is decided on the very last competitive day, the same manner as the '89 Tour. Yet as soon as someone's favorite is out of contention, they consider it boring. 
I guarantee they'll still be watching tomorrow, and the talk on the board will be exciting.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

Jesse D Smith said:


> Some of his Tours were quite boring. He'd smoke the TT's with enough time to lay back in the mountains, without attacking. It was effective, but much like Lance, little drama for the overall. The real drama was the battle for the other podium spots.
> Of course it's boring if you only know about the overall competition, and are completely oblivious to the individual stage contests.
> And it's amazing that this Tour is still a three-way battle, will be decided by seconds, and is decided on the very last competitive day, the same manner as the '89 Tour. Yet as soon as someone's favorite is out of contention, they consider it boring.
> I guarantee they'll still be watching tomorrow, and the talk on the board will be exciting.


I'm up early to go ride my bike. I will however record the TT, so you got me there. What made this tour exciting was the battle between Ras and Contador, and the trials of Soler to get the Polka dot jersey.

With Ras gone, and potentially Soler as well, we are left with all great moments muddied by doping. Makes me lose interest.


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*Did you?*



steelblue said:


> For me it was the 7 Armstrong years. There was no competition. Those years the race was for second place.


Did you sleep though 2003? Because it appears that you did, where there was actually a real race going on, and big Jan was challenging right until he slipped and fell down at the last time trial. 

And 1999 was exciting as well, mostly because nobody thought he could win.

Now, the other 4. I'd agree with you.


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## Snakebit (Mar 18, 2002)

I've enjoyed this tour but I'm not sure what effect it will have on cycling in the US. The general public has to be behind any sport for it to have success, true in any country, and that requires heros with recognized names. About the time we learn to pronounce some of them, they're gone. I don't see how that will capture the imagination of American fans and create a loyal following. There are too many alternatives in this country and we are easily distracted.


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## steelblue (Jul 16, 2007)

magnolialover said:


> Did you sleep though 2003?


You can say that. I didn't follow or watch much of the tour during his wins. Even with the drug scandal, this year's is pretty good. 

Cheers.


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## Vandizzy (Jul 11, 2007)

Love this Tour as with all the rest! Shake ups one of the slowest stages, to the fastest stages, GC and jersey shake-ups throughout the tour. The liars and cheats getting caught, and the riders that do it clean for the love of the sport getting what they desverve. Focus on the positive folkes, my glass is overflowing! mahalo


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## 007biker1 (Mar 22, 2007)

this tour has been fantastic!! The winner to be decided today..what can be better! Haters will hate, but that's their problem. Cantador has been a revelation and Evans can still beat him. Vive le tour!


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## barbedwire (Dec 3, 2005)

*Yes*

Hands down, worse Tour I have ssen.


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## bsaunder (Oct 27, 2004)

I think its been a great tour! 

I have no idea how this will be a huge blow to US cycling, I find it hard to believe that the entire basis for US cycling relies on a rider from the US winning every year. Heck, it should be a bit of a help for those people as an American will most likely be on the podium, and an American team will have dominated much of the tour yet again (as far as jersey's etc); to many that don't follow the tour too well, they view the entire Disco team as American (ignorance, yet, but many don't know the difference.)


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

Einstruzende said:


> I'm going to have to say this is the worst Tour I've ever seen. Even worse than 1998.
> 
> I think the reasons are obvious. Contador winning doesn't help matters.
> 
> The blow to cycling in the US is going to be big, and that's not something we need.


strangest - yes. Leaving bad taste in my mouth - yes. Making me worried for future of cycling - yes.

Boring - definitely not. Probably one of the top three most exciting in the last 10-15 years.
Unpredictable - hell yeah! (did anyone here pick Contador for the win?)


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## Italophile (Jun 11, 2004)

FondriestFan said:


> Great stages.
> 
> Results are an absolute joke though. Seriously, if you're a Disco fan at this point, God bless you. You probably believed Rumsfeld too.


Love ya, Fondy (me, too), but you are baked on the Disco team here. They are clearly the best tacticians, and their riders are doing very well. 3 of the top 8? Only the Astana teram could have matched that, and only with the Kazakh Vampire at that!


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

stevesbike said:


> the weird thing about this tour has been the collapse of so many riders (and I don't mean because of doping charges).
> 
> Valverde: 10 minutes behind. disappeared on the climbs (passed by chicken on the TT-ouch). Highest paid protour ride (hope he's riding the Vuelta)
> 
> ...



I agree and I found the fact that Beltran was basically MIA from the lead group in the mountains this year was quite odd... perhaps the most odd of the examples you listed.


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## Italophile (Jun 11, 2004)

*Strange, yes. Painful, yes. Bad, no!*

Not bad. Hard medicine, to be sure, but in the long run, this Tour will usher in better competition to come, and that is a good thing.

This is a needed catharsis.

And it beats anything the networks put on in terms of drama! More guys got whacked than in an entire season of the Sopranos!


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## Shockee (Feb 12, 2004)

This year has been stimulating. An emotional rollercoaster. The only letdown is that I feel we didn't see a truly clean-but-superhuman feats. We're in between dynasties, so now its a horse race between riders whom could never hold a candle to one of the greats. But Horse races are inherently riveting - so that sits well with me.

I've had to put the doping ejections in perspective: now things are being done to punish the dopers BEFORE finishing in Paris. The biggest disappointment was the unraveling of Landis after he fraudulently stole the victory. Same goes for Delgado, Riis and Pantani.

I'd like to see VS interview Paul Kimmage as an 'i told you so' moment. HIs book came out around 1990 or so .. shows how long and entrenched the problem has been, but might help to illuminate just how things have changed for the better now also.


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## rroselli (Jan 2, 2003)

*Worst - no*

Happy for the home team and more so for Levi. Great to see him get his TDF stage. Awesome TT. =] Worst pet owners, yes. Show some sanity.


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## turbogrover (Jan 1, 2006)

Einstruzende said:


> With Ras gone, and potentially Soler as well, we are left with all great moments muddied by doping. Makes me lose interest.


Regardless of the outcome, those exciting race moments still happened, and I still enjoyed watching them get played out on my TV. The fact that Rasmussen was dismissed from the Tour by his team, or that Soler may have been doping, didn't make any of those great race moments go away. The only thing that changed was the podium positions. When I heard that Vino and Rasmussen were out of the tour, it only added to the drama of the whole event. It was like gaping at a traffic accident on the highway. It may not have been pleasant to watch riders get removed from the race, but it certainly kept my interest level high.
Perhaps you enjoyed the Tour better when everyone looked the other way at cheaters, and they were allowed to race, without fear of getting caught.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Kram59 said:


> I think it's one of the most exciting. Something new everyday. Sure beats most of the lance snoozathons....


Agree. One of the most exciting. No one really knew who was going to win this race until the final time trial. 

I know I'm gonna take heat for this but I loved the '98 Tour. It was tops when it came to high drama.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Jesse D Smith said:


> Some of his Tours were quite boring. He'd smoke the TT's with enough time to lay back in the mountains, without attacking. It was effective, but much like Lance, little drama for the overall. The real drama was the battle for the other podium spots.
> Of course it's boring if you only know about the overall competition, and are completely oblivious to the individual stage contests.


Yeah I remember the Big Mig years. Totally boring. As were the Riis and Ulrich wins. I've already posted on the Lance snooze-a-thons above. 2003 is the exception. They were fighting like cats in that Tour.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

I really enjoyed this tour. It stung me when Vino and Ras got pulled, but that only added to the drama. And yes, I absolutely loved the 1998 tour, too. These two tours were _so_ much more exciting than the pompous Victory Marches that were the rule during the Indurain and Armstrong years.


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## al0 (Jan 24, 2003)

Yes, after expelling clear winner without lawful reason.
Yes, I agree that moral reason exists, but Rasmussen has not broken any written rule - he just have used to his advantage hole that exists in the rules. So he shall not be punished.

Moreover, team mangement has stated that action has been taken on the insistence of sponsor, but sponsor has contradicted it. So I have a big doubt about all this story. 

And Vinokuorove story in the light of the latest comments from Klöden. Klöden seems to have every right to blame Vino, but he defends him and point to the likely plot. In his mouth it sounds seriously.



Jesse D Smith said:


> Some of his Tours were quite boring. He'd smoke the TT's with enough time to lay back in the mountains, without attacking. It was effective, but much like Lance, little drama for the overall. The real drama was the battle for the other podium spots.
> Of course it's boring if you only know about the overall competition, and are completely oblivious to the individual stage contests.
> And it's amazing that this Tour is still a three-way battle, will be decided by seconds, and is decided on the very last competitive day, the same manner as the '89 Tour. Yet as soon as someone's favorite is out of contention, they consider it boring.
> I guarantee they'll still be watching tomorrow, and the talk on the board will be exciting.


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 17, 2007)

No, I liked the TdF, enjoyed the landscapes and the mountain stages.
And that TT yesterday was a real thriller.


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## tkavan01 (Jun 24, 2004)

al0 said:


> Yes, after expelling clear winner without lawful reason.
> Yes, I agree that moral reason exists, but Rasmussen has not broken any written rule - he just have used to his advantage hole that exists in the rules. So he shall not be punished.
> 
> Moreover, team mangement has stated that action has been taken on the insistence of sponsor, but sponsor has contradicted it. So I have a big doubt about all this story.
> ...


I thought the tour organizers had said Ras had Broken a rule where you need to be made available 45 days before the race for random testing?


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 17, 2007)

The Tour organizers said that yes, but according to the UCI, there were no reasons to stop him from entering the TdF..
There is a big fallout between ASO and UCI amongst others because of these different approches to doping.

More here and HERE


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## snood (Oct 5, 2006)

Not as bad as 1998. Crappy like last year though. Top rider(s) kicked out. Second rate doper wins. Ho hum. Would have rather seen top dopers like Ullrich or Basso kick the crap outta Landis and Contador.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

I stand by my original assessment. This was a completely forgettable tour.


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 17, 2007)

Einsturzende ... neubauten?


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

Boring? Come on. This Tour had it all. Scandal, drama, crashes, dogs with bad owners, and that lying sack of **** Rasmussen getting booted by his own team. And Vino.....what can you say.

But it certainly looks like cycling is doing a lot more than most big time sports to eliminate dope and cheaters. Why is Barry Bonds still playing?

And the closest top three in Tour history.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

Richard said:


> And the closest top three in Tour history.


Roughly half a minute separating the 3 guys on the podium. I think that says it all. Not to mention -- as Phil Liggett pointed out today -- how the younger generation is taking control of the sport and racing (hopefully!) clean: Contador, Boonen, Soler, Cancellara, Bennati, Conty, Wiggins, etc. They all shined in this Tour. IMO, this Tour is on a par with the 2005 Giro in terms of suspense.


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## ciclisto (Nov 8, 2005)

*easily settled*

which tdf did yo spend the most time watching. me it was last year and this year, lots to watch and great racing, just forgetabout the guys that were dismissed, pretend they just bonked and enjoy what you saw. Hell of lot better that the"boat Race" when Lance was winning. Did you not enjoy Landis kicking a$$ and the duels with the chicken and the
pretender to the throne. By the was Ras was NOT kicked out for dope. hear this on the news all day. he was tested 17 times with no pos. over and out.


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## Guest (Jul 29, 2007)

Great job on the wieght loss...keep it up!


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## Hollywood (Jan 16, 2003)

Einstruzende said:


> I'm going to have to say this is the worst Tour I've ever seen.


No doubt, I kept getting up early to watch the live coverage every morning hoping it would get better. It sucked so bad that I had to get up _every_ morning praying for some glimmer of excitement.


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## ti-triodes (Aug 14, 2006)

By a purely racing standpoint, this race had alot of excitement. Certainly better than last year's snooze-athon and everyone waiting for Lance to retire in 2005.


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## turbogrover (Jan 1, 2006)

Einstruzende said:


> I stand by my original assessment. This was a completely forgettable tour.


That's unfortunate for you. Perhaps you shouldn't watch pro cycling on TV ever again, because it won't get any better than this TDF. It was a fantastic show for most of that actually enjoy watching pro cycling.


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## tkavan01 (Jun 24, 2004)

turbogrover said:


> That's unfortunate for you. Perhaps you shouldn't watch pro cycling on TV ever again, because it won't get any better than this TDF. It was a fantastic show for most of that actually enjoy watching pro cycling.



exactly, i'll remember it as the time two teams got booted, and one questionable guy got fired, levi won a time trial, soler came out of nowhere, and contador managed to hold on to a win just barely, this last week of racing could have been really boring if ras hadn't been booted, bc it would have all been wrapped on that last pyr stage, now we had excitement until the final time trail, and everyone watching the final stage like a hawk to see if cadel would go for the bonuses and would discovery cover then counter with levi, it was great!


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