# Oh Snap, BBox and Cofidis denied ProTour status



## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

http://www.velonews.com/article/98834/uci-rejects-bbox-and-cofidis-protour-renewals

Poor world rankings (19th and 20th places-- ouch!) and potential financial issues cited. But, looks like ASO bailed them out stating both will be in the TdF next year (meaning less TdF wild cards for the BMC's and Skil Shimano's of the world though).


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Milram?*



> The Italian squad Lampre was awarded a four-year license, while the German team Milram was given ProTour status only through the 2010 season.
> 
> "That is very good news for us,“ said Team Milram's general manager Gerry van Gerwen. "That gives us more security in our planning for the coming year. We can now continue developing the team at the highest level. And of course, as the only German team at the highest level, it is important that we be able to present ourselves in a fitting manner at the season's highlights.“
> 
> Lance Armstrong's new team RadioShack is still under consideration for the ProTour. A UCI statement said, "The Commission continues to examine the file submitted by the new American team Radio Shack. It will announce its decision at a later date."


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cofidis-bouygues-telecom-denied-protour-status


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## crumjack (Sep 11, 2005)

Is it wrong that my biggest disappointment with this news is that I won't see tricked out Look and Time bikes in as many races???


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

crumjack said:


> Is it wrong that my biggest disappointment with this news is that I won't see tricked out Look and Time bikes in as many races???


Nope. Mine was not getting to say "Bbox" as much.


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## wiz525 (Dec 31, 2007)

crumjack said:


> Is it wrong that my biggest disappointment with this news is that I won't see tricked out Look and Time bikes in as many races???


This is the first thing I thought of as well.


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

Snap, indeed. The subject has come up recently as far as these teams and others taking up valuable space. I dont wish bad things on others, but this was a long time coming. There are some good teams waiting.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

There is much goodness in this announcement. 

That the ASO was prepared with an immediate announcement regarding the two teams' invitation to the TdF indicates some level of communication and coordination between the PT and ASO. In the past this would have been unthinkable.

The current World Calendar method of choosing teams for non-PT races (read: all ASO races) demands that the top 17 or 18 teams are mandatory, leaving the organizer latitude for discretionary picks. Nominally the top teams should be PT teams, but Cofidis and BBox messed that up. Relegating them helps preserve the "purity" of PT status, while still offering ASO the opportunity to select reasonably strong French teams.

The PT still will not be operating at their hoped-for 20 team strength, perhaps indicating the scheme is not what was hoped for at its inception. OTOH, the French "system", in which the ASO has such influence on cycling affairs that undeserving French teams receive undue status, has been brought down one very small peg. The result is a more rationalized, if not rational, sport.

We should all bow to Jean Claude Killy, the architect of the compromise. Maybe we can get him to work on Iran next.

JSR


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

JSR said:


> The PT still will not be operating at their hoped-for 20 team strength, perhaps indicating the scheme is not what was hoped for at its inception. OTOH, the French "system", in which the ASO has such influence on cycling affairs that undeserving French teams receive undue status, has been brought down one very small peg. The result is a more rationalized, if not rational, sport.
> JSR


I'm not sure how to take the interplay between this decision and the ASO announcement. I took it to be almost the opposite of how you did---moderately good French teams don't need the protection of a ProTour license to get into these top events, because ASO will watch out for them. It has the negative (in my view) effect of reducing the number of salaried spots subject to ProTour minimums. 

Perhaps off topic, but I was looking for information about the ProTour salaries vs. Pro Continental salaries and saw this UCI release of a summary of an Ernst & Young report regarding pro cycling.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

crumjack said:


> Is it wrong that my biggest disappointment with this news is that I won't see tricked out Look and Time bikes in as many races???



Meh... That doesn't change the fact that Look, Time AND Colnago make great frames and those of us in the know who can afford them will continue to buy their products and enjoy their qualities. BTW, With that being said I can't think of one frame being left in the Pro Tour that I'd ever consider purchasing and using myself. 

Trek, no
Specialized, no
Cervelo, no
Giant, no
Felt, no
Fuji, no
Orbea, no
Lapierre, no
Scott, no
Bianchi, never
Focus, no
BH, no
Wilier, no
Pinarello, not even
Canyon, I think they make nice frames but as a real option they're pretty much a nonstarter in the North America.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Coolhand said:


> http://www.velonews.com/article/98834/uci-rejects-bbox-and-cofidis-protour-renewals
> 
> Poor world rankings (19th and 20th places-- ouch!) and potential financial issues cited. But, looks like ASO bailed them out stating both will be in the TdF next year (meaning less TdF wild cards for the BMC's and Skil Shimano's of the world though).



http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cofidis-bouygues-telecom-denied-protour-status



> Bouygues Telecom and Cofidis were the lowest-ranked ProTour squads in the UCI's world rankings this year at 19th and 20th, respectively, *lower than the aforementioned Pro Continental teams*.


Smack.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

It's the right decision, and it really shouldn't affect either team too much. Interesting that the ASO jumped on immediately, but I don't think there was much doubt that both would have made the TDF anyway. Bbox won two stages this year, and both usually do a lot to animate the race.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

Undecided said:


> Perhaps off topic, but I was looking for information about the ProTour salaries vs. Pro Continental salaries and saw this UCI release of a summary of an Ernst & Young report regarding pro cycling.


Nice find on the salary analysis. 

I agree it would be better if riders were earning more and if more riders were signed to PT contracts. However there just does not seem to be a sufficiently robust ecosystem to support more PT teams. The agreement between ASO and UCI will firm up in the 2011 season. I'm hopeful the sport can grow from there to acheive stronger teams and better conditions for the athletes.

JSR


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## chavez (Jan 20, 2009)

crumjack said:


> Is it wrong that my biggest disappointment with this news is that I won't see tricked out Look and Time bikes in as many races???



Me too....TIME bikes will probably never be in my budget, but I do love the look of them. And Rocco, you forgot Ridley. Personally I thought Voeckler's attack and subsequent stage win was one of the better stages of this year's tour, but I'm sure the bbox wipeout on the TTT didn't help their reputation at all.


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## b24fsb (Dec 21, 2006)

rocco said:


> Meh... That doesn't change the fact that Look, Time AND Colnago make great frames and those of us in the know who can afford them will continue to buy their products and enjoy their qualities. BTW, With that being said I can't think of one frame being left in the Pro Tour that I'd ever consider purchasing and using myself.
> 
> Trek, no
> Specialized, no
> ...



way to not be an elitist and turn your nose up on perfectly good frame sets. yep you fit in just fine with your Look, Time AND Colnago buddies


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

The UCI's goal should be to have the best riders possible in every one of their events. This won't happen unless they continue to prune off the bottom. They also need the free market to work in spreading out good riders among the available teams. I guess the current exodus from Columbia is a good example of this. 

The grand tours are not about having the best cyclists riding -- they have other concerns like nationalism, and I won't fault them for inviting Bbox, Cofidis, LPR Brakes, etc. to their future events.


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## hookypro (Aug 1, 2006)

pure politics...they needed to make room for Radio Junk and Sky and whatever team COnti will be on( notice the delay in announcing Astana ). ASO still has the UCI and PT over a barrell.....BBox won two stages of the tour...who won the tour of poland?


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## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

It's clear that the UCI had to make room for the 2010 Rock Racing Team.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

rocco said:


> Meh... That doesn't change the fact that Look, Time AND Colnago make great frames and those of us in the know who can afford them will continue to buy their products and enjoy their qualities. BTW, With that being said I can't think of one frame being left in the Pro Tour that I'd ever consider purchasing and using myself.
> 
> Trek, no
> Specialized, no
> ...


rocco - I hope you are trying to be ironic/funny, because otherwise this attitude sums up everything that is wrong with cycling (arbitrarily hyped fashion elitism over function/performance).


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

55x11 said:


> rocco - I hope you are trying to be ironic/funny, because otherwise this attitude sums up everything that is wrong with cycling (arbitrarily hyped fashion elitism over function/performance).


Consumer preference = elitism? WTF? If you prefer some brands over others, you're a snob?

Give it a rest.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

b24fsb said:


> way to not be an elitist and turn your nose up on perfectly good frame sets. yep you fit in just fine with your Look, Time AND Colnago buddies



That's funny... I didn't know I was turning down an offer of free frame sets deemed suitable for the common people. Oh well... to each their own.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

55x11 said:


> rocco - I hope you are trying to be ironic/funny, because otherwise this attitude sums up everything that is wrong with cycling (arbitrarily hyped fashion elitism over function/performance).



I'm serious... you must be joking.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

FondriestFan said:


> Consumer preference = elitism? WTF? If you prefer some brands over others, you're a snob?
> 
> Give it a rest.



It's rather bizarre, isn't it. I'm being accused of being an elitist because I prefer frames with certain performance characteristics (apparently unpure ones at that) by people who come across like they are some sort of communist ideologues. I'm so ashamed that my preferences have been as not suitable for the common man. I guess that means they won't be inviting me to join them for their group rides.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

chavez said:


> Me too....TIME bikes will probably never be in my budget, but I do love the look of them. And Rocco, you forgot Ridley. Personally I thought Voeckler's attack and subsequent stage win was one of the better stages of this year's tour, but I'm sure the bbox wipeout on the TTT didn't help their reputation at all.



Oh yes... Ridley... that came to mind but I forgot to type it in.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*why has Cofidis*

had so much Leeway anyway??? Astana was booted by the ASO for Vino and Andrej Kashechkin dope busts while Cofidis has had a littany of offenses and yet always gets an invite
this more than anything else shows me the ASO is a bunch of hypocritical homers

famous Cofidis dopers Frank Vandenbroucke.David Millar, Cedric Vasseur, Médéric Clain and Philippe Gaumont and yet the ASO never banned them


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

This move might cause a reaction opposite than what it appears with ASO races. PT will have fewer than the traditional 20 teams (I'll wait and see on this) it would appear that there are more chances for Continental teams to get into the big ASO races but with Bbox and Cofidis being almost a lock in the ASO races (publishers of French news papers which Bbox and Cofidis almost certainly advertise with) then we're back to 20+ teams that are certain to get in, leaving precious few spots for up and coming teams.

I noticed that the spokes person for Cofidis wasn't too upset about being left out. He's going to all the races he wants to and can skip many of the mandatory races that are very expensive to go to (Langkawi, Austrailia, etc.) and don't bring any value back to his French sponsor. Before Tour Down Under was PT, teams were paid to go there, now that it is PT, they pay all of those bills.

On the bike brand thing, did anyone else find it strange that when last year's "silly season" played out Colnago was basically ousted from all the prominent teams? Did they just get out-bid?


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## b24fsb (Dec 21, 2006)

rocco said:


> It's rather bizarre, isn't it. I'm being accused of being an elitist because I prefer frames with certain performance characteristics (apparently unpure ones at that) by people who come across like they are some sort of communist ideologues. I'm so ashamed that my preferences have been as not suitable for the common man. I guess that means they won't be inviting me to join them for their group rides.



sorry to tell you but the "performance characteristics" that you speak of are in many of the frames that you have black listed.


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## gegarrenton (Jul 10, 2009)

rocco said:


> It's rather bizarre, isn't it. I'm being accused of being an elitist because I prefer frames with certain performance characteristics (apparently unpure ones at that) by people who come across like they are some sort of communist ideologues. I'm so ashamed that my preferences have been as not suitable for the common man. I guess that means they won't be inviting me to join them for their group rides.


Well, if you wouldn't use syntax like 'common man' you probably wouldn't come off as such a jerk.


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## haydos (Sep 17, 2007)

Rocco's next bike will be a Serotta Meivici... 

PS; Still love the VXRS mate.


I think Colnago had their eyes on a couple of teams but simply got outbid by others. Ultimately it all comes down to $$. It will be interesting to see who rides em next year.


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## KMan (Feb 3, 2004)

The dude probably washes and waxes his car every day and yells at people who look at it wrong fearing it might get a scratch:cryin: :lol: 

Michael



b24fsb said:


> way to not be an elitist and turn your nose up on perfectly good frame sets. yep you fit in just fine with your Look, Time AND Colnago buddies


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

I was unaware every single frame in the peleton was so crappy. I guess im glad i have a felt.
I actually just went back a page, turns out felt is on the list! Crap. Where do i get one of those fancy frames?
What about georges new team?


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

KMan said:


> The dude probably washes and waxes his car every day and yells at people who look at it wrong fearing it might get a scratch:cryin: :lol:
> 
> Michael



Actually my car is more than 15 years old and long paid for. It hasn't been waxed for more than a year and was last washed a month ago. It has a coating of dust and some spatters of tree sap and bird poop on it. I always park it in the driveway or out on the street where the neighborhood kids congregate to play with balls, bats, bikes, skateboards and fireworks. BTW, this is in an urban, mostly working class neighborhood in Los Angeles. 

My much bigger concern could be that the kids might get the idea to break into my garage and steel my elitist bike. Fortunately, it's fully insured under my home coverage... I know, I know... I don't self insure... I'm such a liberal, elitist, pantywaist.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

b24fsb said:


> sorry to tell you but the "performance characteristics" that you speak of are in many of the frames that you have black listed.



Yeah well, some of the characteristics aren't in many of those frames and at least one isn't in any of them. BTW, it's interesting how you presume to know which characteristics are important to me and it's rather peculiar that you care so much about which frames I've "black listed".


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

gegarrenton said:


> Well, if you wouldn't use syntax like 'common man' you probably wouldn't come off as such a jerk.





b24fsb said:


> way to not be an *elitist* and *turn your nose up* on perfectly good frame sets. yep you fit in just fine with your Look, Time AND Colnago buddies



Perhaps if you go back and read again you might notice that perhaps it was the syntax found b24fsb earlier reply that started this bizarre exchange off in the direction it has gone but if you think I come off as a jerk anyway frankly I couldn't give a crap... again, to each their own. Have a nice day.


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## gegarrenton (Jul 10, 2009)

rocco said:


> Perhaps if you go back and read again you might notice that perhaps it was the syntax found b24fsb earlier reply that started this bizarre exchange off in the direction it has gone but if you think I come off as a jerk anyway frankly I couldn't give a crap... again, to each their own. Have a nice day.


I did read it. Looks like he's saying you thinking you are elite, not anything about the rest of the folks being 'common'. I didn't think you sounded like a jerk until the 'common' thing came out. 

I think it's silly to imply all those bikes aren't great, but that is your opinion and you are entitled to it.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*More reasonable approach*



my version said:


> Trek, sure- the latest Madone rode pretty well.
> Specialized, hell yes.
> Cervelo, hell yes.
> Giant, hell yes (if Rabobank colors- that bike is sharp).
> ...


Top flight racing frames with Red, SR11 or D/A 7900 groups and light carbon tubular wheels? Yes please.


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## IAmCosmo (Jul 26, 2005)

rocco said:


> Yeah well, some of the characteristics aren't in many of those frames and at least one isn't in any of them. BTW, it's interesting how you presume to know which characteristics are important to me and it's rather peculiar that you care so much about which frames I've "black listed".


Why don't you let us know what you ride and what makes it superior to most every single top of the line frame out there?


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## The Weasel (Jul 20, 2006)

bigmig19 said:


> IWhere do i get one of those fancy frames?


Duh! Walmart.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

IAmCosmo said:


> Why don't you let us know what you ride and what makes it superior to most every single top of the line frame out there?



I never said my preferences are flat out superior to the others frames. I indicated what is in my opinion is superior for me and my desires. 

The frame I have fits me well for one thing and I like the geometry which is set up for very sure handling characteristics. These things make it very enjoyable for me to ride. I also appreciate the technology they put into their product and the fact that they fabricate their own tubes and lugs by hand with carbon fiber they spin inside of their own facilities in France. The frame is superbly crafted and finished plus it has proven to be quite durable over the last 5 years as it's the only bike I've used. It also came with a life time warranty which is better than what most others offer. 

Why don't you let us know why you ride the frame you do?


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

gegarrenton said:


> I did read it. Looks like he's saying you thinking you are elite, not anything about the rest of the folks being 'common'. I didn't think you sounded like a jerk until the 'common' thing came out.
> 
> I think it's silly to imply all those bikes aren't great, but that is your opinion and you are entitled to it.



No... he did not say he thinks that I think I am elite. He flat out called me an elitist. I'm am not elite. I think nobody should be ashamed of or hated for being elite; however, I did take his comments for the mean spirited and personally judgmental message that they were. 

The "common man" comment was clearly pure sarcasm playing off of the fact he called me and my personal preferences "elitist". 

All of those other bikes are fine. Some are great but IMO some are even better... especially for me. There is no such thing as the best frame for everyone.



As George Carlin once said, "I believe in live and let live but if they don't agree them f**k them".


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Coolhand said:


> Top flight racing frames with Red, SR11 or D/A 7900 groups and light carbon tubular wheels? Yes please.



To each there own. There's nothing unreasonable about having personal preferences.


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## baker921 (Jul 20, 2007)

Why no prejudice against Cannondale? Have Liquigas been tossed from the PT and I've missed it? Or have Liquigas dumped the green meanies?
A worried 'dale rider.


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## gegarrenton (Jul 10, 2009)

rocco said:


> *No... he did not say he thinks that I think I am elite. He flat out called me an elitist.* I'm am not elite. I think nobody should be ashamed of or hated for being elite; however, I did take his comments for the mean spirited and personally judgmental message that they were.
> 
> The "common man" comment was clearly pure sarcasm playing off of the fact he called me and my personal preferences "elitist".
> 
> ...


Well, that is what elitist is....

But for the rest, fair enough. Like I said, the common thing threw me off, but you are certainly entitled to whatever opinion of anything you wish.


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

rocco said:


> Meh... That doesn't change the fact that Look, Time AND Colnago make great frames and those of us in the know who can afford them will continue to buy their products and enjoy their qualities. BTW, With that being said I can't think of one frame being left in the Pro Tour that I'd ever consider purchasing and using myself.
> 
> Trek, no
> Specialized, no
> ...


Wow. Just wow. You must be so much fun at parties. You're probably a one upper too.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

gegarrenton said:


> Well, that is what elitist is....



Well if your opinion is that I am what an elitist is I'm not going to begrudge that... though some seem here have no problem begrudging mine and making it personal while doing it... how ironic.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

DZfan14 said:


> Wow. Just wow. You must be so much fun at parties. You're probably a one upper too.



Don't worry... You're not invited.


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

It's amazing how this thread turned into Rocco defending his opinions. 

Who cares what Rocco likes. Let him like what he wants.
Per his quote of this nobody,


> As George Carlin once said, "I believe in live and let live but if they don't agree them f**k them".


It might be better to speak from experience though. I'd be shocked if one actually spent any time on all of "said" bikes.


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## IAmCosmo (Jul 26, 2005)

rocco said:


> I never said my preferences are flat out superior to the others frames. I indicated what is in my opinion is superior for me and my desires.
> 
> The frame I have fits me well for one thing and I like the geometry which is set up for very sure handling characteristics. These things make it very enjoyable for me to ride. I also appreciate the technology they put into their product and the fact that they fabricate their own tubes and lugs by hand with carbon fiber they spin inside of their own facilities in France. The frame is superbly crafted and finished plus it has proven to be quite durable over the last 5 years as it's the only bike I've used. It also came with a life time warranty which is better than what most others offer.
> 
> Why don't you let us know why you ride the frame you do?


I ride a Specialized. Two of them, actually. One is aluminum and one is carbon. Why? I like them. They fit me well, and my local shop that carries Specialized treats me well. And they has a lifetime warranty.

I also own a 91 Tommasini Super Prestige that I hope to be able to ride by next spring, provided I get it finished.

But, I realize that there are a lot of nice bikes out there and I would more than happy to own and ride most all of them. To be honest, I'd love to own any of the bikes the pros ride, even if they don't measure up to your standards.


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

*You just made the list, buddy.*



rocco said:


> I indicated what is in my opinion is superior for me and my desires.


Oh don't play innocent. You know this is the most effective way to shock and offend.
I have a Fuji, and I identify with it enough to take offense. You have besmirched my bike and me. 
Actually, I have another Fuji frame waiting to be built up. So once I get that rolling, I'll take double offense. 
I have a Lemond, which was associated with Trek. But since the association ended badly, I'm not sure whether to take offense. But what the hell. I take offense again. 
I have owned a Bianchi in the past, and loved it. So I take retroactive offense. 
And I reserve the right for any indignation I feel if I own and identify myself with any other bike on your "no freebe" list. 
You're on notice.
Now it's not too late to make things right. All you have to do is publicly validate all my bikes, and all my future bike purchases.


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

rocco said:


> Don't worry... You're not invited.


Yeah. We know how you like to spend all that time alone.


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

I haven't read the news yet. Stop posting spoilers in the title.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Jesse D Smith said:


> Oh don't play innocent. You know this is the most effective way to shock and offend.
> I have a Fuji, and I identify with it enough to take offense. You have besmirched my bike and me.
> Actually, I have another Fuji frame waiting to be built up. So once I get that rolling, I'll take double offense.
> I have a Lemond, which was associated with Trek. But since the association ended badly, I'm not sure whether to take offense. But what the hell. I take offense again.
> ...



I completed my first century on a Fuji when I was 15. 

I had a Reparto Corse Bianchi made with Columbus Genius tubing. I loved that frame until it cracked at the head and town tube junction little more than a year after I bought it. I sent the bike back to Bianchi USA and they gave me the run around with a bunch of BS about why it wasn't a defective frame. Fortunately, my father is a metallurgical engineer and I was armed with enough knowledge to call them on it. Eventually they conceded that should replace my frame but by then I was so pissed that I vowed to never buy or ride another Bianchi. I chose a Ti frame made for Bianchi by Litespeed as the replacement and stripped off the Bianchi graphics as soon as I got it.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

DZfan14 said:


> Yeah. We know how you like to spend all that time alone.



Ouch.


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## gegarrenton (Jul 10, 2009)

rocco said:


> Well if your opinion is that I am what an elitist is I'm not going to begrudge that... though some seem here have no problem begrudging mine and making it personal while doing it... how ironic.


? When did I call you elitist? FFS, HE said you were elitist. 

Crikey you are obtuse.


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## wiz525 (Dec 31, 2007)

i like this thread. maybe it's because i have a Time right now...


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

gegarrenton said:


> Crikey you are obtuse.


Nice... first I'm called an elitist and now I'm called obtuse. Obviously I can't be both. I honestly find your writing style to be a bit difficult to understand but since you think I'm obtuse and I can't be both then I can only deduce that you were trying to say what b24fsb wrote was elitist.


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## a_avery007 (Jul 1, 2008)

yeah, free markets will solve it..lol

think mob based teams with money laundering agendas..lol


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

wiz525 said:


> i like this thread. maybe it's because i have a Time right now...



Yeah but do you have Campagnolo? :wink:


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

rocco said:


> Yeah but do you have Campagnolo? :wink:


One upper. I knew it.


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## wiz525 (Dec 31, 2007)

rocco said:


> Yeah but do you have Campagnolo? :wink:


you got me! i just changed out my Campy Record 10 for Sram Red......


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

rocco said:


> Meh... That doesn't change the fact that Look, Time AND Colnago make great frames and those of us in the know who can afford them will continue to buy their products and enjoy their qualities. BTW, With that being said I can't think of one frame being left in the Pro Tour that I'd ever consider purchasing and using myself.
> 
> Trek, no
> Specialized, no
> ...


They're not ProTour but I'd love a DeRosa.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

il sogno said:


> They're not ProTour but I'd love a DeRosa.


At one time I would have agreed with you. They still make some very sexy frames such as the King 3 and Idol (though the Tango was exceptionally ugly) if you look at them from a few feet away. Unfortunately, I've seen various examples showing that their finish quality is very poor and the general construction quality of their outsourced carbon frames has been quite spotty (I've seen too many stories in the DeRosa section and over at WW about frames that have cracked recently). For what they charge for their frames that's absolutely unacceptable in my book. It's a bummer because I want to like their frames.

If paying more for top quality makes me an elitist that's fine but paying basically the same amount ($4k to $6K) for inferior construction and finish quality on an outsourced frame that costs less to produce just because it looks sexy and has a cool name decaled on it is foolish. If the King 3 were up in the league of a Time, Colnago, Parlee, Crumpton, Pegoretti, Spin, Guru and others as far as quality level it would definitely be on my wish list if one would fit me properly.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

From Bicycling's Joe Lindsey:



> But let’s not stop with Astana. Lampre got a four-year renewal. God knows why. They have Damiano Cunego and reportedly pick up Alessandro Petacchi, who will have a racing age of 36 next year. Beyond that? Not much. They lose Marzio Bruseghin to Caisse, Alessandro Ballan to BMC, and very likely Pietro Caucchioli and Enrico Gasparotto. They increasingly look like a mid-range Italian team, not a standard bearer for one of the top cycling nations in the world. And not to pick on the French, but Francaise des Jeux looks creakier than BBox, even.
> 
> Quite honestly, looking at the 2009 teams, I see only nine teams that are solid, automatic inclusions for ProTour status, based on budget, sponsor commitment and talent: Caisse d’Epargne, Garmin, Liquigas, Quick Step, Rabobank, Silence-Lotto, Columbia, Katusha and Saxo Bank. Maybe Milram and Ag2r-La Mondiale. Add Sky and RadioShack for 13 total for 2010. Beyond that, can you possibly argue that Euskaltel is a more talented tours team than, say, Cervelo? Who will have a better spring classics campaign, BMC, or whatever the hell Fuji-Servetto is going to be in 2010?


http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/2009/10/01/protour-gets-a-pruning/#comment-6578


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

DZfan14 said:


> One upper. I knew it.



If you think that's one up then you said it, not me. Way to be an elitist.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

wiz525 said:


> you got me! i just changed out my Campy Record 10 for Sram Red......


Great! I hope you like it. I'm from Chicago so I know people who work in design at Sram.


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

> Is it wrong that my biggest disappointment with this news is that I won't see tricked out Look and Time bikes in as many races???


That is the first thing I thought as well. I was completely disappointed to see Look sponsoring Cofidis this year. It was hard to watch Thor on a Cervelo. It's weird seeing those particular brands on some of the weakest teams.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Coolhand said:


> From Bicycling's Joe Lindsey:
> 
> 
> 
> http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/2009/10/01/protour-gets-a-pruning/#comment-6578



Thanks for the link. Lindsey is right on target with every point... I couldn't agree more.


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