# when random guys give you an unwanted push on hills (and other annoyances from guys)



## Creakyknees

I've recently been informed that this happens fairly often to lady riders, especially on group rides. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts. 

For my part, I never do it except on rare occasions where I'm actual friends and regular riding cohort with the lady in question. Besides the chauvinistic overtones, it's really not a safe maneuver at all, for either party and for any other riders nearby. 

While we're on the topic of annoying things male riders do around ladies, how about when a lady rider gets a flat or other mechanical and a cluster of guys stands around, doing all the work (by committee, of course) while the lady stands there and ... what? Learns to watch? I dunno. That situation always bugs me because men are all trained to be gallant, and that's clearly a lady in distress. But when will she ever learn to repair her own flat, diagnose her own chain drop problem, etc? And isn't it chauvinistic to do anything more than courtesy stop to make sure she has things under control?

I dunno, I'm just a guy. What do you think?


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## Bocephus Jones II

I generally just point and laugh and then ride away faster than Lance Armstrong when he finds out Greg Lemond is drinking at the same bar.


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## Dave Cutter

I spent many of my adult years single... or as I used to joke... between marriages. 

I always believed that women have a right to be left alone [as far as romantic advances] at work, and at home. Other than that.... certainly sporting events or ventures would be open game.


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## kjdhawkhill

I prefer the Lance v Tyler bathroom confrontation, like a lady at a gala. Because bathrooms are where fights should start. 

Bars are where men drink and move on with their lives, or maybe hide from their rivals or wives. They shouldn't try to hide from life, and then leave the bar when their lives show up there, too. 

I'll teach my wife, sister(s) and daughter(s) to change flats, but the free services won't be provided for other women simply because they are on the road. Now, if they can't get it done, and its raining, I'll help anyone. I'm just more likely to notice the cute ones are stuck.


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## theBreeze

Well, first of all I have never had a guy push me up a hill. It's seems a pretty rude thing to do to anyone, male or female.

I change all my own flats, always have, and I am good at it. Once I got a flat on a group ride and a (male) friend told the others that they better let me change it because I was faster at it than any of them.

I haven't generally been the recipient of chauvinistic behavior. I guess I let my riding speak for me.


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## love4himies

Depends on who the guy is to help me up the hill; Ryder Hesjedal can do that for me any day. Other than that, I want to be able to say I've conquered ... by myself. I, being an older lady, do appreciate the offer of help from a gentleman for any mechanical fixes, but like to also conquer that on my own (I'm am not mechanically inclined in any way, so changing a flat is quite the feat for me ).


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## NJBiker72

I am a guy and I have gotten a couple of pushes. One up a hill and one to get back into the paceline. Both were well meant and helped. The first up the hill was less than encouraging as it showed I was not ready to ride with that group at least not that day. Plus I did not know him well. 

The second time I was honestly thankful. It was from a friend who is much better and younger than me. And the pace in the paceline was very intense at that point. 

I would not trust myself to do it. Wish I did. Would have helped out a friend who was struggling on this Sunday's ride. Again not a woman. She was kicking our buts and trying to keep up was what had done him in.


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## Mr645

Here is what I see on a lot of the group rides, which I do 2-3 times per week, and always a few ladies in the group.

First, I have never seen anyone "push" someone, woman or man. I have seen many times where if someone is falling off the pack, they move up into a position to allow the slowing rider to draft them and try to pull back into it, but no physical contact.

Also, on some rides, even so called "no drop rides" if a rider or two drop back toward the end, for a male, the group will probably let them fall back, but if a woman falls back, someone will fall back with them every time. 

Everyone is expected to have a spares kit to fix a flat but I don't think I have ever seen a woman have to fix her own flat. There are always 2-3 riders that will help a flatted rider, male or female.


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## Oxtox

never seen anyone give or get a push...

seems like a rude thing to do.


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## tlg

Never seen this happen. Wow how offensive, stupid and dangerous.
If someone did that to a woman in my group, he'd get b!tch slapped.


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## Alfonsina

Sounds like a myth to me. t


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## tlg

Alfonsina said:


> Sounds like a myth to me. t


What's that?


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## bikerector

I haven't seen anyone pushed before either. We will often pace people back to the group if they get dropped but that's it. If someone can't get paced back on they are either dropped for good or we slow up for them depending on drop/no drop rules for the ride. We pretty much apply the same rules to guys or girls, though most of the group rides I attend are sausage fests.

I think most people would give a "WTF?" if they were being pushed up a hill.


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## JCavilia

I've seen it, but generally only among people who know one another already (i.e., a couple). Both people have to be solid bike handlers for it be done safely.


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## il sogno

I was suffering up Cole Grade down in San Diego county just before a Tour of California stage a few years ago. I think it's 16%. A guy at the side of the road asked me if I wanted a push. I said, "Hell yeah!" He gave me a nice long push. I was grateful.


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## QuiQuaeQuod

il sogno said:


> I was suffering up Cole Grade down in San Diego county just before a Tour of California stage a few years ago. I think it's 16%. A guy at the side of the road asked me if I wanted a push. I said, "Hell yeah!" He gave me a nice long push. I was grateful.



Consent is a good thing.


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## LOW2000

I've dropped a chain in the middle of an intersection while making a left turn, I was glad my buddy was there and pays attention and immediately started pushing me till we could clear the lanes and make it to the curb and fix the problem.


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## Bill2

Creakyknees said:


> While we're on the topic of annoying things male riders do around ladies, how about when a lady rider gets a flat or other mechanical and a cluster of guys stands around, doing all the work (by committee, of course) while the lady stands there and ... what? Learns to watch? I dunno. That situation always bugs me because men are all trained to be gallant, and that's clearly a lady in distress. But when will she ever learn to repair her own flat, diagnose her own chain drop problem, etc? And isn't it chauvinistic to do anything more than courtesy stop to make sure she has things under control?


I rode with an Italian club once and had a flat. A guy whistled and the whole pack turned around and came back. Several guys grabbed my bike, pump and spare tube and rapidly fixed the flat. Another guy started trying to find the hole in the old tube but they told him to quit- time to go! I thought it was funny, but also kind of nice in a way. Definitely quicker than my usual flat repair.

I'm guessing they would do the same for a female rider.


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## Favorit

This reminds me of my friend, who is a paraplegic, and tells me sometimes strangers try to "help" her by pushing her chair without asking first; the chair is her space - an extension of her body essentially. 

As QuiQuaeQuod mentioned, consent is a good thing, not to mention where the hand to body contact is.


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## Fireform

*when random guys give you an unwanted push on hills (and other annoyances fro...*

This sort of thing is commonplace where I ride, and the women (including my wife) who receive the extra watts are generally happy to have them. Here it's not done on hills so much as to keep someone in the pack and out of the wind. Never seen a crash result from it but that is certainly possible. 

Guys will also give a teammate a shove in a fast group ride or race if one sees the other in difficulty and thinks a boost will make a difference. Keeping your star sprinter in the pack, or suchlike.


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## RaptorTC

I've pushed someone along once. But it was because his deraillieur got destroyed by a stick a few miles from home while we were out mountain biking and he was incapable of pedaling. 

Other than that obviously special circumstance I don't think I've ever seen someone getting pushed along on a ride around here.


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## Local Hero

I don't think it's dangerous, unless you count non-consensual physical contact and similar presumptuous behavior as dangerous.


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## Cableguy

Creakyknees said:


> While we're on the topic of annoying things male riders do around ladies, how about when a lady rider gets a flat or other mechanical and a cluster of guys stands around, doing all the work (by committee, of course) while the lady stands there and ... what? Learns to watch? I dunno. That situation always bugs me because men are all trained to be gallant, and that's clearly a lady in distress. But when will she ever learn to repair her own flat, diagnose her own chain drop problem, etc? And isn't it chauvinistic to do anything more than courtesy stop to make sure she has things under control?
> 
> I dunno, I'm just a guy. What do you think?


I'm also a guy, but learning to change a flat is pretty trivial. It's the act of having to do it that's annoying. If I was such a big deal that dudes eagerly tried to repair all my flats, I would be quite pleased and have no problem with it. So in this case, if a woman wants to complain about guys fixing their flats... please, go cry me a river.


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## NJBiker72

Cableguy said:


> I'm also a guy, but learning to change a flat is pretty trivial. It's the act of having to do it that's annoying. If I was such a big deal that dudes eagerly tried to repair all my flats, I would be quite pleased and have no problem with it. So in this case, if a woman wants to complain about guys fixing their flats... please, go cry me a river.


I agree with this. I can change my own flats and have done it enough but sometimes riding with a shop mechanic or two. Those guys can change it a lot quicker than I can and we are all back on the road moving again much quicker.


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## MercRidnMike

The only place I've seen pushing is at a charity ride I do...and then, it is usually those with a flag denoting a cancer survivor getting the push. When I've seen it, it's not been just the guys doing it...I've seen some wonderfully supportive ladies lending a hand with a push. I'd agree, though, that consent is the best way to go.

In terms of the chivalry thing, it must just be where you are. Most folks up here will call out to see if you're okay, and if so, away they go. If you say no, a lot will stop and help at whatever you need help with. Never seen the real "white knight syndrome" in the wild except where it was a couple and he was trying to get her into riding.


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## Cableguy

MercRidnMike said:


> I'd agree, though, that consent is the best way to go.


This is why I carry around consent papers with me on rides. I first verbally ask if they want a push, if they accept I bust out the pen and paper and make them sign right there on the spot. After going through a few pushing-lawsuits I now always make it formal. 

Some people say I should just give it up. "You're ridiculous, just stop pushing people" they say. I just hand them a copy of my consent papers and say, "Sign it, or get left behind"


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## MercRidnMike

Cableguy said:


> This is why I carry around consent papers with me on rides. I first verbally ask if they want a push, if they accept I bust out the pen and paper and make them sign right there on the spot. After going through a few pushing-lawsuits I now always make it formal.


Nah....verbal should be good. If they are in distress enough to need a push, then aren't you covered under the Good Samaritan laws?


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## dnice

i once got passed by a guy pushing his girlfriend up the hill, which was humiliating. he really should have pushed ME up the hill, not her.


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## Silchas Ruin

I love being pushed from behind....oh..you mean on my bike..no! Don't do that. Of course, most likely, you're so far behind me you can't reach me anyway.


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## josephr

There's one guy in our group rides and he'll give folks a "push" but its usually no longer than 50 yards. He's an older guy, a very strong rider, and he'll push strong riders, not-so-strong riders, men, women, people on carbon bikes, people on steel bikes, etc.....of course, only if he's ridden with them a couple of times. He's just a friendly sort, doesn't mean anything by it other than being friendly.

That being said, if someone was giving me a push up a hill without my consent, I think I'd just say "thanks for the push but I'm making it pretty good" and hopefully they'd get the idea.

If this dude is a frequenter "pusher" and its clearly only chicks he's pushing, I think you guys have every right to say something. I once saw Sierra club kick a guy out of a club as he was 'coordinating' group hikes but use it to invite chicks and then invite to dinner at his house. 

You don't really go into detail if its one or multiple offenders. I can see one guy might have a screw loose, but if multiple, I've no idea what to say other than it sounds weird and that you should ride with us. 
Joe


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## MarciD

What is a push on a bike?


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## kimoly

MarciD said:


> What is a push on a bike?





Hi Marci... we can give you a pass on this since you got into cycling in Florida. j/k

"Pushing" is when a rider will come up beside you, place a hand on your back (usually, sometimes on your butt) and accelerate - pushing you to a faster speed than what you were doing. This is usually done on long hills, to prove that he is manly and thus worthy of your admiration... this is why I say that as a cyclist from Florida (I am not going to use the term that I learned to call you folks when I matriculated at the University of Georgia) you are not expected to understand what that is all about. Long hills are an unknown feature in your area...


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## MarciD

Good morning.....hahah..thats funny and a bit scary!! I would have to refuse the offer if it ever did happen to me on the Florida trails. The Pinellas trail does have over passes that a push would be very welcome...;o), but I am very very nervous of narrow places while biking..Basically I have to walk my bike over narrow foot bridges and stop when an on coming bicyclist is coming my way, (if its a narrow area).With (pushing), i would feel someone would be to close and our handle bars would entwine. My husband knows enough not to come up beside me while riding.. I have to follow him, knowing my comfortable distance away from someone (although I have come close to bumping his back tire.....pannnnic!!) My motto is, "I am behind you, but Im not following". A few close calls taught me a very good "self interest" lesson!!! In other words, I keep my distance and look both ways, all on my own!!!! Thanks for the explanation, Kim!!!
PS Did your name calling have to do with being snowbirds or wimps?? Just curious!!! ;o)


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## Red90

I guess it also has to do with the context of the push. Most of the time people don't need to be pushed, they ride at their own pace and will eventually get there. When I started riding in a group and we formed a paceline, I wasn't physically as good as the others and the lead guy was teaching me how to ride and what to watch out for. When I started to lag behind the draft, he would give me a bit of a push so I kept behind the draft and could keep up. I found it very helpful. It was odd at first, but very much appreciated. 

It might be different for me as I'm a guy and wouldn't easily feel any inappropriateness of it, but I can see times that it can be useful


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## easyridernyc

a lot of the time i see women, short women, fat women, skinny women, pretty women, ugly women, whatever, people of the opposite sex, struggling up what shouldnt be too tough of a hill. but for whatever reason, it is. my first instinct is to help, but if they're grinding away at a snail's pace, not much you can do. cant tell em its too late not to change gears, cause then they need the rest of the effin instruction manual on how to change gears, if not simply how to shift to get up a hill. not moving, not much i can do without stopping myself, sorry. 

if i see them struggling, moving, mind you, but struggling, then i might take a minute to i tell them as i come up from behind that the crank has to be turning for the gears to shift. people seem to get that. others like to use big gear, come up out of the saddle, grind it all the way up the hill. whatever floats yur boat i figure, its all good. i swear to god, i ran into a lady just like that in the park this weekend, just bought a condo on fifth avenue and was bragging about the marathon sex she'd JUST HAD for hours before going for a ride....she was pretty funny. i wasnt about to tell her she should she sit her butt down and spin a smaller gear. she seemed kinda set in her ways.

anyway, if i see someone rolling up, but having a rough time of it---hey i used to be that way, syht sometimes still visit ol death valley goin up the hill -- i will usually slow down and offer a few words of encouragement. my instinct is to reach out a hand and provide a little steady pressure, but if someone has trouble with cadence, an unexpected push can really throw them, and you, off balance. plus there's the simple fact that most women dont want to be touched by strangers. there's always that.

i figure basic advice and a few words of encouragement can go a long way.karma is good spread it around..


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## kimoly

"PS Did your name calling have to do with being snowbirds or wimps?? Just curious!!! ;o)"

You have to understand that the universities of Georgia and Florida are mortal enemies, so any names we used were not complimentary. The most popular was "Floridiots" for anyone from that state who hadn't defected to become a Bulldawg. 

I lived in Boone NC for most of a year when settling my dad's estate (he retired up there). We did have troubles with snowbirds up there. I recall being on my bike and passing a grey haired woman in a Cadillac with Florida tags who was driving at about 10mph - up a local mountain pass! She seemed so scared of the road I am surprised that she didn't freak out and drive off the road when the cyclists rode around her and motored on up the road. 

Now I live in the Pacific Northwest so I don't have much of a beef with folks from Florida anymore - except for that one weekend every fall when the World's Largest Outdoor Cocktail Party sets up shop in Jacksonville. I always make sure not to miss that affair (on television - I'm not wasting my time or money to fly across the country for a silly game!).


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## M.Ray

Hi there! You´re probably done with this subject but I saw very few comments about girls who actually do get pushed once in a while like myself.
I ride with my husband and friends but I´m the only woman. I do get their pace except on steep hills. Imagine it´s a 90 km ride and we´re on km 30 and get to a steep hill, it´s only a matter of 10 seconds to be left behind and end up riding 60 more kms alone, so whoever sees me staying behind just give me a push to keep the pace up the hill and that way I get to spend the rest of the ride with the group so I really appreciate it. It´s kind of cheating but I´m getting better by riding with them and hope I won´t need their help eventually. They are all friends and experimented riders who won´t make me fall, so I feel ok with it. They push me from my lower back and it´s 10 seconds at most.
I guess I would feel awkward if a stranger just went and pushed me, he´d have to at least ask me if I want to be pushed.
About changing a flat tire, we usually ride with a backup truck and bring spare tires, so It´s pretty easy. Even so, guys always ask if I need help which I appreciate, but I say no cause there´s really no need. I think all women should be self-sufficient but it´s still nice to count on gentleman’s willing to help in case it gets too complicated, especially because they have more experience than I do.


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## tlg

M.Ray said:


> I ride with my husband and friends but I´m the only woman. I do get their pace except on steep hills. Imagine it´s a 90 km ride and we´re on km 30 and get to a steep hill, it´s only a matter of 10 seconds to be left behind and end up riding 60 more kms alone, so whoever sees me staying behind just give me a push to keep the pace up the hill and that way I get to spend the rest of the ride with the group so I really appreciate it.


If it's only a matter of 10 seconds, why can't they just soft pedal at the top of the hill for 10seconds and let you catch up? 



> They are all friends and experimented riders who won´t make me fall, so I feel ok with it. They push me from my lower back and it´s 10 seconds at most.


Doesn't matter how experienced they are. It's a dumb idea and eventually going to cause you to crash.


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## M.Ray

Yeah, most of the times they do that. But sometimes(or specifically when some guys from other groups tag along) it gets kind of acompetition and they just won´t wait. 
It´s not like it happens every time, but´you´re probably right and it just shouldn´t be done.


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## Blue Sugar

Most group rides are like a Chinese phone book- full of wangs (ha ha). Most of the group rides I participate in are shop rides where no one gets dropped or left behind for flatting, man or women. I've never seen anyone get pushed.


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