# Rear tire is worn out. Rotate front tire to rear?



## Speed_Metal (Feb 9, 2004)

as will naturally happen, the rear tire wore down much quicker than the front. i've always been in the habbit of rotating the front tire to the rear, and putting the brand new tire on the front.
i suppose the reasoning is its better to flat the rear tire instead of the front.
any reasoning to leaving the front tire on the front, and putting the new tire on the rear?


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## Akirasho (Jan 27, 2004)

... I've rotated as such due to budget but in the end it might be like buying a pack of hot dogs and a pack of buns...it'll take a while for things to sync up...


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## Pitts Pilot (Dec 5, 2011)

You MUST replace both at the same time and give the dingy looking front tire to some poor cyclist concerned about things such as money/value/whatever. If you replace just one tire, your bike will not look it's supreme best, which is the most important thing. (I actually do think this is a valid point.. but I...)

Always move the front to the back and put a new one on the front - replacing both tubes at the same time. I have approximately 1 flat every 4000 miles - for the last 20,000 miles or so. I will have to admit that I replace my tires before most guys would, but I also ride a bit differently and believe that this is a well warranted precaution.


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## phoehn9111 (May 11, 2005)

Hey, great idea, you could save like $35 and what's the worst that could
happen, a frontend washout and wreck. Go for it. Make sure to wear a
helmet so you don't damage your head.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Yep. Front to rear and new one on the front. The only time I don't do this is if the front is still in really good shape with little wear and no significant cuts.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Can't argue with that ^^^ but I am one cheap, frugal mother f'er. When solo which is most of my riding I always move the rear to the front if not to cut up or cord not showing yet. I have a a bunch of old sets of tires I can't throw away because i contemplate putting them back on for a few more miles. With that said, if I'm going to do an event where I'm riding with lots of other people I will put a nice rolling set on that are in good shape for rolling resistance and safety. 

I'll change the set when the frequency of flats spikes. Again, I'm cheap and would advise against my method. Most I know get rid of the rear, move the front to back and put a new one on the front.


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## Herbie (Nov 12, 2010)

nothing wrong with what you are doing. I usually just replace the rear. I go through 2 rear tires and then it's time to replace both.


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

Originally Posted by AndreyT: 

"What would be the point of rotating the tires on a bicycle?

On a car people rotate the tires (if they do) in order to even out the wear and thus save a trip to a tire shop (instead of two trips for two tires each do one trip for all four tires). 

Replacing a bicycle tire is an easy DIY operation, meaning that it doesn't matter whether the tires will wear out simultaneously or not. For this reason, there's simply no point in rotation."

Couldn't agree more. Your rear is going wear out before the front. And, it's going to have a flat spot - center of tread flattens. Just replace each as needed.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Speed_Metal said:


> as will naturally happen, the rear tire wore down much quicker than the front. i've always been in the habbit of rotating the front tire to the rear, and putting the brand new tire on the front.
> i suppose the reasoning is its better to flat the rear tire instead of the front.
> any reasoning to leaving the front tire on the front, and putting the new tire on the rear?


This seems to be the general approach but last time I wore out my rear tire, I had a left over from my old bike with less than a season of wear. That bike now has thicker tires for winter riding, so I stuck the old rear tire (Maxxis Refuse 23) on the rear of the good bike and kept the Specialized Turbo on the front. Eventually replaced the front with a Victorio Rubino Pro Slick and will at some point use the old front Maxxis on the rear. It is a different set up but I like it. The Rubino handles better but the Refuse is tough as nails and very durable.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

OldZaskar said:


> Originally Posted by AndreyT
> What would be the point of rotating the tires on a bicycle?
> 
> On a car people rotate the tires (if they do) in order to even out the wear and thus save a trip to a tire shop (instead of two trips for two tires each do one trip for all four tires).
> ...


It is not a true "tire rotation" it is simply moving the front tire to the rear when the rear wears out. The worn rear tire goes in the trash or on the trainer.

The reason is that the front tire wears very slowly in comparison to the rear tire. Riding 3,000 miles a year, my front tire will dry rot before it wears out. I would prefer to have the freshest, stickiest tire in front, thus the new one almost always goes on the front and the front tire goes to the back. The exception to this would be if I get a pre-mature failure on the rear after having just recently put a new tire on the front.

As you say, changing a tire is an easy DIY, so why not move a slightly worn front to the rear in order to have your best tire where it is most critical?


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

Blue CheeseHead said:


> It is not a true "tire rotation" it is simply moving the front tire to the rear when the rear wears out. The worn rear tire goes in the trash or on the trainer.
> 
> The reason is that the front tire wears very slowly in comparison to the rear tire. Riding 3,000 miles a year, my front tire will dry rot before it wears out. I would prefer to have the freshest, stickiest tire in front, thus the new one almost always goes on the front and the front tire goes to the back. The exception to this would be if I get a pre-mature failure on the rear after having just recently put a new tire on the front.


I'll buy that. The idea of swapping front to rear to have them wear evenly makes little sense. but the Pez Method (push one in from bottom, comes out top) does have merit - push from front to rear to trash.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Blue CheeseHead said:


> . . .
> 
> Riding 3,000 miles a year, my front tire will dry rot before it wears out.
> 
> . . .


How long would it take for this to happen? Would hate to put a "rotted tire" on.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

NJBiker72 said:


> How long would it take for this to happen? Would hate to put a "rotted tire" on.


I have some "spare" tires that may have been in my parts bin for 3 years. I can certainly see some cracks in the rubber on the sidewalls. I expect they are superficial, but it is a sign that some volatile compounds in the rubber have evaporated over time making the tire harder and less sticky.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Blue CheeseHead said:


> I have some "spare" tires that may have been in my parts bin for 3 years. I can certainly see some cracks in the rubber on the sidewalls. I expect they are superficial, but it is a sign that some volatile compounds in the rubber have evaporated over time making the tire harder and less sticky.


Thanks. Maybe make the switch to the newer one sooner but still should have a year, plus I think these things are made of steel.


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## stanseven (Nov 9, 2011)

Rotating is great if you don't have anything better to do with your time. My tires and wheel combo's make mounting tires tough and it takes time and work. I just replace the rear and never had a problem.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

stanseven said:


> Rotating is great if you don't have anything better to do with your time. My tires and wheel combo's make mounting tires tough and it takes time and work. I just replace the rear and never had a problem.


It takes all of 5 minutes to rotate a set of tires? Yeah that's a waste of time and money...not.


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## Ab24029 (Feb 20, 2006)

On the "good" bike that I constantly ride I usually buy 3 tires and when rear tire is worn it gets replaced with a new tire. Front tire still have a lot of life left at that point.

On the other 3 "spare" bikes that are not ridden a lot the front tire gets dry-rotted by the time the rear tire is worn, so they get replaced or rotated.


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## Clay L (Jul 3, 2010)

I just let my team mechanic take care of it.


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## stanseven (Nov 9, 2011)

woodys737 said:


> It takes all of 5 minutes to rotate a set of tires? Yeah that's a waste of time and money...not.


You said earlier you keep tires and put them back on the get max wear. Putting on old tires that are stretched is easy. Putting on tires that have never come off on some wheels is a bear and takes longer than 5 minutes plus its a lot of work and perhaps blisters. And what's the advantage? - maybe avoiding a very rare front flat?


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## ratherBclimbing (Apr 2, 2007)

stanseven said:


> You said earlier you keep tires and put them back on the get max wear. Putting on old tires that are stretched is easy. Putting on tires that have never come off on some wheels is a bear and takes longer than 5 minutes plus its a lot of work and perhaps blisters. And what's the advantage? - maybe avoiding a very rare front flat?


You're still only putting on 1 new tire. And with the exception of the first time you do a rotation, you’d still only be pulling off 1 used tire that has never been pulled off a wheel before. So in addition to the back wheel change you’d have to 1) remove the front wheel, 2) pull off a used tire that has been removed from a wheel before, and 3) put a used tire back on a wheel. It’s really not much more work. Not that changing tires is much work to begin with.


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## milkbaby (Aug 14, 2009)

Clay L said:


> I just let my team mechanic take care of it.


^LOL not all of us are talented enough to have this perk... :blush2:

+1 new tire always on the front.


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## NWS Alpine (Mar 16, 2012)

Some people buy 3 tires and when the rear gets worn or cut up the new tire goes on the front and the front goes on the rear. This is for just normal training.

If you are racing then fresh rubber is better for both front and rear.


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## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

Blue CheeseHead said:


> so why not move a slightly worn front to the rear in order to have your best tire where it is most critical?


You'll have to explain that to me. How exactly is the front tire the most critical? 

If you say 'because if you flat the front tire, you'll crash' I'll call baloney. ...'cause I flatted the front last Friday on a steep, gravel downhill and managed to stay up just fine thankyouverymuch.

Now, other than the mythical 'if you flat the front, you'll crash' theory, why exactly is it that y'all think the front's more critical?

M


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Tire aging*



NJBiker72 said:


> How long would it take for this to happen? Would hate to put a "rotted tire" on.


Too many variables to guess. If you ride lots of hours at mid-day at high altitudes in sunny climates with tires that don't have a good UV/anti-oxidant formulation, your tires will start to craze and get brittle quite quickly. You can guess under which conditions your tires will last longer.

Bike tires wear out (lose rubber from the tread) due to power dissipation (scrubs rubber off the tread). Unless you are doing a LOT of heavy front wheel braking, your front tire will not wear at all. I have measured zero weight loss after 6K miles on a front tire. The front tire will age and get cuts and will wear about 30% faster as a rear tire than a brand new tire will.


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## Dave Cutter (Sep 26, 2012)

Kerry Irons said:


> ......... The front tire will age and get cuts and will wear about 30% faster as a rear tire than a brand new tire will.


I had never heard or read that before.... but it does make perfectly good sense.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

MShaw said:


> You'll have to explain that to me. How exactly is the front tire the most critical?
> 
> If you say 'because if you flat the front tire, you'll crash' I'll call baloney. ...'cause I flatted the front last Friday on a steep, gravel downhill and managed to stay up just fine thankyouverymuch.
> 
> ...


Congrats. You are as talented as we come. 

However for us mortals we are better off with a blow out on the rear.

Fwiw, please avoid v
Cryptonite


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Some people rotate some don't, it's a personal thing. I happen to rotate and here's why. The rear wears out about 2 to 3 times faster then the front, but a front flat could cause a crash before a rear ever would. So when the rear is down to minimal tread, I move the front to the rear and put a new tire on the front. This is why some people use a larger tire on the rear in an attempt to balance the wear more equally, I don't do that anymore but I did try it and I didn't like it.


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## mandvm (May 6, 2012)

I plan to replace both tires in the spring, and save the front tire to use as a rear tire on the trainer the following winter.


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## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

NJBiker72 said:


> Congrats. You are as talented as we come.
> 
> However for us mortals we are better off with a blow out on the rear.
> 
> ...


So here we have one individual that is parroting a trite line from 'an innerwebs expert' without thinking things thru.

When's the last time you had a front flat?
When's the last time you had a rear flat?

I know for me personally its an 80/20 rear to front ratio flat-wise. The only time *I* have front flats is if I actually hit something hard enough to pinch flat. The rest of the time, the front tire kicks up whatever's in the road and I roll over the 'now pointing up' thing with my rear tire. Presto! Rear flat. 

Think about your own personal flats. G'head. Take a while. I'll wait. Which tire flats the most? I'm betting that its gonna be the rear tire just like mine. (oh, and FYI its the same on MCs too)

So, after having thought about which tire flats the most, are y'all STILL certain you want the best tire on the front?

M


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

MShaw said:


> So here we have one individual that is parroting a trite line from 'an innerwebs expert' without thinking things thru.
> 
> When's the last time you had a front flat?
> When's the last time you had a rear flat?
> ...


Problem is you're the one not being logical. The issue isn't the fact that you get more flats on the rear vs the front, which is true! The issue is, which prevents the most degree of hazard should a flat occur, the front or the rear? You stand a greater chance of crashing and burning with a front flat vs a rear flat; and you stand a greater chance of messing up a rim, and for some people that could be a very expensive rim. You also need the traction on the front for steering and stopping much more than you need traction on the rear for acceleration or stopping. 

Having said that I've only gone down once due to flat front tire in 40 years of riding, and during those 40 years I had too many to count front flats. So just because you had a front flat doesn't mean you're going down. That front flat crash was due to going around a turn coming down a mountain road at 40mph and hit a piece of glass too small to see, the tire flatted and came off the rim.

This is why it's important to make sure the tires you buy are difficult to put on, because if their difficult to put on they will be difficult to come off the rim in case of a flat. People today want things easy so they buy tires that are easy to put on and easy to take off...and easy to come off the rim in case of a flat too; and when they buy a tire that's a bit of pain to put on they stay away from them in the future. Not real smart.

Also Sheldon Brown agreed with this method too; see: Tire Rotation
And so does this: Be Strategic When Putting On New Tires

By the way, the opposite is true with a car regardless if front wheel drive or not. If you have a depleted tread tires on the rear and lose traction due to rain or whatever, or have a tire blow out in the rear, the chance of your car sliding out from behind you is far greater, so your newest tires should always be on the rear.


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## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

I'm not being logical? All the anectodal evidence in the world doesn't replace statistics.

There's more weight on the rear tire. 

The front tire kicks up more stuff for the rear tire to run over.

etc 

There's more rear flats than front. Count em in your own experience. 

Yes, I understand that a front flat *could* have a bad outcome, but since front flats are much less likely to occur, why keep the good tire up there? How does that make sense?

All I'm askin y'all to do is stop and think rather than parrot some bad advice and call it gospel

M


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Your being logical to a fault. Everything you said is indeed logical, but it is not the safe way to do it. Did you read those sites? you say you know that a front flat could lead to a bad outcome but that doesn't bother you? It's not parroting advice I'm giving you, it's a known fact throughout the cycling community. It's advisable when riding at night to use lights and reflectors, it's a known fact not parroting advice!

Look, I'm not here to "force" you to do something different, I'm here as a friend to give you this advice based on known safety issues with poorer tires on the front, if you don't want to accept that advice then fine. Same is true with lights and reflectors being used at night, as a friend I would tell you to use them, but you don't have to. You may never have an accident doing it your way, just as you may never have accident riding at night without lights and reflectors, but you do increase your odds of having an accident, it's up to you to decide how much of a risk your willing to take.


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## cyclingsivells (Aug 1, 2012)

I rotate a set of tires at leat twice. It's quick and it helps the tires wear more evenly and I get more miles out them. When you ride 10K a year like I do, you go through a lot of tires. I'm frugal so I don't care what anyone thinks about it.


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## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

Since no one is stopping and thinking about this, I'm gonna shut up about it.

Y'all keep doing what you're doing and keep parroting bad advice

M


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

MShaw said:


> I'm not being logical? All the anectodal evidence in the world doesn't replace statistics.


not like you applied any. how many front flats resulted in crashed versus rear flats? then multiply by the ratio of flats on the two wheels. 
no one has done that, including you.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*More miles*



cyclingsivells said:


> I rotate a set of tires at leat twice. It's quick and it helps the tires wear more evenly and I get more miles out them.QUOTE]
> 
> No, you don't get more miles with your procedure unless you absolutely insist that you throw out both tires at once. You get the same mileage if you wear out the rear, move the front to the rear, and put a new tire on the front. This gives you the absolute maximum mileage unless you are putting totally worn out tires on the front while you finish wearing out another tire on the rear.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Data*



Dave Cutter said:


> I had never heard or read that before.... but it does make perfectly good sense.


I have kept track of tire wear for over a decade by weighing new tires and tracking mileage. My assumption for the mechanism here is that the rubber is hardened somewhat by age on the front and so is more easily abraded by the pedal forces on the rear tire. Hardened in this case means more brittle (easily abraded) rather than higher durometer (more durable).


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

MShaw said:


> Since no one is stopping and thinking about this, I'm gonna shut up about it.
> 
> Y'all keep doing what you're doing and keep parroting bad advice
> 
> M


That's fine, but if by chance you have a bad crash due to a poor tire on the front you can't hold us responsible for giving you the bad advice that you subscribe to. Personally hope you never crash, tire or otherwise.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

stanseven said:


> You said earlier you keep tires and put them back on the get max wear. Putting on old tires that are stretched is easy. Putting on tires that have never come off on some wheels is a bear and takes longer than 5 minutes plus its a lot of work and perhaps blisters. And what's the advantage? - maybe avoiding a very rare front flat?


Hey stanseven-as KI mentioned the best way to do it is to rotate the front to back and just put a new one on the front (discard the back). I do form time to time move the rear back to the front for a few hundred more miles when doing slow solo rides like right now (base). It really doesn't save much at all and is probably not advisable for most as I mentioned before.

Yes moving a stretched tire is easier but I do eventually put new ones one and most likely more frequently than most as I ride in Arizona year around. As to the blisters or saying "changing a tire is a lot of hard work" let's just agree to disagree. My post above was a bit smug. Nothing personal. Certain Vittoria tires and Michelin's are harder to get on than other brands but that's a good thing imho.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Kinda depends on the tire/rim. I know Continentals are a ROYAL PAIN to mount to Campy rims. I still use that brand of rim and tire, but switched to the Gator Skins so it wouldn't be as frequent.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

spade2you said:


> *Kinda depends on the tire/rim.* I know Continentals are a ROYAL PAIN to mount to Campy rims. I still use that brand of rim and tire, but switched to the Gator Skins so it wouldn't be as frequent.


True.


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