# Carbon Ebay Frames for 2010-11 v 2.0



## Coolhand

As the current thread is getting a bit to big to open at times, here is the continuation thread for all things Ebay and direct purchase carbon threads. Nice job on the last thread- it will be locked but remain stuck (and search/readable) as a great resource for all those interested in these frames. :thumbsup:


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## Dutch77

Thanks! Would you guys ever consider making a subforum for these? Seems like they are becoming increasingly popular and more retailers are showing up. It could cover brands like Pedalfoce and Planet X too that way...


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## dmabraham

@ WW, thanks for all the helpful information. Stack and reach make a lot more sense now, and seems like a much easier way to understand the size of a bike. The general size numbers do seem pretty useless, espically when the brain bias of "I'm always a size X" kicks in.

So I ended up getting, from 88bikefun on ebay, 










in a size 56.

The measurement info provided is 

Size : 56cm 
Material : Carbon (3K) 
Head Angle : 73° 
Seat Angle : 74° 
Seat Tube : 560mm C to T 
Top Tube : 556mm C to C 
Head Tube : 155mm 
Chain Stay : 405mm 
Seat post size : 31.6mm 
Seat post clamp : 34.9 
R Frame Width : 130mm 
BB : 68mm English 
Derailleur Mount : Band Mount 
Headset : Integrated 1 1/8" 
Frame Weight : 1140g 

Fork

Steerer Size: 1 1/8" 
Hub Spacing: 100mm 
Steerer Length: 300mm 
Fork Rake: 43 mm 
Weight: 390g 

Not knowing all that much I ended up choosing this one because 1, it seems like the geo will fit well and be what I (think) am looking for (relatively aggressive bike I can train and race on), 2, its carbon (as opposed to the perfectly fine but somewhat harsh F100 I have now), 3, I liked the look of it.

Does anyone know, from the look of it, what this frame model number is?

And the cost was 408.00 shipped, that is if it arrives!


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## chocy

Does anyone have extra 53cm 015-SPL? 
I was in a crash yesterday and now I need another one. Jenny tells me I have to wait a month!!
Help!!

as for the detail. I was doing my afterwork loop at Central Park, and some idiot without any safety gear at night (no helmet, light etc) suddenly decided to make a turn in front of me without checking. my bike ran straight into his rear wheel (of course his bike was a cheap walmart tank) My Assault wheel went out of true (fixed) but then I got small cracks on the downtube right behind my head tube (see my previous post about my earlier crash!!) anyway, I could still ride it if I was suicidal but I am not. So now I need to figure out how to replace my frame without losing the whole July....

Let me know if anyone has an extra that they can let go...


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## PLAYONIT

*Finally built my Hong-Fu carbon rims...*

Finally tried my hand at building a set of wheels.. waiting on my sew-ups to try them out.. I started by reading and reading then read some more.. I hit the rims with high grit sand paper to take the gloss off the rims and laced them using Novatec hubs and Pillar areo spokes... Had some moments on this first build.. but think I got it..will find out after some miles.... couldn't wait to see how they looked on the bike so had to put them on without the tires.....


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## Dutch77

PLAYONIT said:


> Finally tried my hand at building a set of wheels.. waiting on my sew-ups to try them out.. I started by reading and reading then read some more.. I hit the rims with high grit sand paper to take the gloss off the rims and laced them using Novatec hubs and Pillar areo spokes... Had some moments on this first build.. but think I got it..will find out after some miles.... couldn't wait to see how they looked on the bike so had to put them on without the tires.....


Awesome man! I'm sure I'm not the only one that's really curious to hear a first hand review of these.

What was the final weight? I seem to recall a while back you had mentioned the rims advertised weight was pretty accurate right?


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## PLAYONIT

1412 grams without skewers.... they really look better with the gloss taken off.. I noticed in the picture that you can see the oil smudges on the rims from oil on my hands that was from oiling the threads and nipples.... I wil let all know how they ride ... my first build so I can't wait to see how I did...



Dutch77 said:


> Awesome man! I'm sure I'm not the only one that's really curious to hear a first hand review of these.
> 
> What was the final weight? I seem to recall a while back you had mentioned the rims advertised weight was pretty accurate right?


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## berndrea

Hey playonit, how much did it cost to build the carbon wheels?


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## PLAYONIT

$458 us

$240 rims
$63 spokes
$135 hubs
$20 nipples




berndrea said:


> Hey playonit, how much did it cost to build the carbon wheels?


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## jessehibbs

dmabraham said:


> Does anyone know, from the look of it, what this frame model number is?


Looks like an FM004 to me


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## WheresWaldo

PLAYONIT said:


> Finally tried my hand at building a set of wheels.. waiting on my sew-ups to try them out.. I started by reading and reading then read some more.. I hit the rims with high grit sand paper to take the gloss off the rims and laced them using Novatec hubs and Pillar areo spokes... Had some moments on this first build.. but think I got it..will find out after some miles.... couldn't wait to see how they looked on the bike so had to put them on without the tires.....


Wow that is a nice looking build. I have built several sets of the Chinese carbon rims, right now I have a set of 88mm on Bike Soul hubs w/CX-Rays that build came out to 1507g. I also built a 50mm set with a Powertap for training. I have a set of 20mm rims coming and plan to build a set that should be under 1000g.

What size is that frame? Did you weigh it before building? I have the same frame coming in a 55 non-ISP BB30, except I ordered it unpainted, not even clear-coat. We shall see how it arrives and what the frame weight is. I figured if Calfee can sell a carbon bike unpainted then why can't the Chinese.


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## dmabraham

jessehibbs said:


> Looks like an FM004 to me


I thought that at first too, but the junction at the seat looks different. Hong-fu has an image of the fm004. The sizing also looks different. (fm004 is 55 or 57, no 56)


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## kreyszig666

sweet! nice to see a pair of these built up. Can you post a bit more detail about the wheel build?
I'm curious as I have a set of hong-fu clinchers (60+88) on the way, and am also going 20 + 24 on novatec hubs, still undecided about spokes.

in particular: 
Which novatec hubs did you use? 
Can you show a closeup of the lacing of the rear? (all heads in?) I assume you've gone 2X on both sides? 
Where did you get the pillars from, i've only seem them from bdop cycling in taiwan? 
Are the spoke holes drilled to account for the spoke angle, or are they straight holes?
Did you get any guide to maximum spoke tension with the wheels?

many thanks for any extra detail you can provide, and many congrats on what looks like a successful first build!
sorry for all the questions!


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## PLAYONIT

The frame weighed a little over 1700 grams with un-cut seat post and fork tube with head set... IIRC



WheresWaldo said:


> Wow that is a nice looking build. I have built several sets of the Chinese carbon rims, right now I have a set of 88mm on Bike Soul hubs w/CX-Rays that build came out to 1507g. I also built a 50mm set with a Powertap for training. I have a set of 20mm rims coming and plan to build a set that should be under 1000g.
> 
> What size is that frame? Did you weigh it before building? I have the same frame coming in a 55 non-ISP BB30, except I ordered it unpainted, not even clear-coat. We shall see how it arrives and what the frame weight is. I figured if Calfee can sell a carbon bike unpainted then why can't the Chinese.


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## Bridgey

I bought the same novatec hubs from bdop cycling. Timothy there has just got a contract with Pillar spokes. If you ask he should sell you spokes. I got spokes and nipples/washers enough for both wheels plus a few extras for $35US (the triplebutted version of pillar). Unfortunately, they gave me the wrong size for my driveside, but the rest were fine. I did however get about 20 odd 240mm spokes (instead of 263mm). So if anyone wants to buy them off me and pay for postage, pm me. All in black (no nipples).


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## kreyszig666

Bridgey said:


> I bought the same novatec hubs from bdop cycling. Timothy there has just got a contract with Pillar spokes. If you ask he should sell you spokes. I got spokes and nipples/washers enough for both wheels plus a few extras for $35US (the triplebutted version of pillar). Unfortunately, they gave me the wrong size for my driveside, but the rest were fine. I did however get about 20 odd 240mm spokes (instead of 263mm). So if anyone wants to buy them off me and pay for postage, pm me. All in black (no nipples).


Are washers a requirement for CF rims? I figured they might spread the load a bit better.


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## jwcurry83

What is the consensus on Novatech hubs? I have got a price list off of an eBay seller that says the wheels he has are built up with novatech hubs, 3k weave, red/white/black spokes (black is standard)... and this seller accepts paypal and will create a seperate eBay auction listing for me as well to make it official:

$527 --88mm Clincher
$467 --88mm Tubular
$467 --60mm Clincher
$398 --60mm Tubular
$449 --50mm Clincher
$382 --50mm Tubular
$435 --38mm Clincher
$367 --38mm Tubular
$415 --20mm Clincher
$347 --20mm Tubular

I noticed that the tubulars are obviously cheaper, but I have never rode a set... is it worth the extra money for the clincher wheelsets?


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## MTBMaven

@jwcurry83: Could you post pictures of some of the wheels mentioned in your post?


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## jwcurry83

Here are some of the pics he sent, these must be the 50 or 60mm wheels:


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## Dutch77

Zencyclery.com has the pillar spokes here.


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## kreyszig666

Dutch77 said:


> Zencyclery.com has the pillar spokes here.


$5-7a spoke, I thought they were cheap alternatives to cxrays - they're twice the price!
edit: the ones at zencyclery are titanium, at bdop they're 14.50 for 8, alloy
bdop


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## PLAYONIT

I got my hubs from bdop also. At the time he could get spokes but did not have them in-house to sell yet.. I had to buy mine off ebay 64 spokes for 79.95 plus shipping he will mix sizes. I paid xtra $$ for ems expedite shipping which brought the total to $93us .I used 44 spokes in my build so my price for spokes in the above post is $93 divided by 44 times the individual spoke price to get the $63 . I need to contact Tim @ bdop again to see if he is stocked yet. I will ride my new wheels to see how my first build will hold up?? if good, I will order a couple of sets of 38mm and 50mm rims and build a few sets for friends ... 




Bridgey said:


> I bought the same novatec hubs from bdop cycling. Timothy there has just got a contract with Pillar spokes. If you ask he should sell you spokes. I got spokes and nipples/washers enough for both wheels plus a few extras for $35US (the triplebutted version of pillar). Unfortunately, they gave me the wrong size for my driveside, but the rest were fine. I did however get about 20 odd 240mm spokes (instead of 263mm). So if anyone wants to buy them off me and pay for postage, pm me. All in black (no nipples).


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## Dutch77

PLAYONIT said:


> I will ride my new wheels to see how my first build will hold up?? if good I will order a couple of sets of 38mm 50mm and build a few up for friends...


I think a lot of people have been waiting for some real world feedback before taking the plnuge on these. Thanks for being the first :thumbsup: 

Seems like there was a group buy from Archteck (sp?) over at weight weenies recently too, it'll be interesting to see what they have to say about them.


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## mjdwyer23

Dutch77 said:


> I think a lot of people have been waiting for some real world feedback before taking the plnuge on these. Thanks for being the first :thumbsup:
> 
> Seems like there was a group buy from Archteck (sp?) over at weight weenies recently too, it'll be interesting to see what they have to say about them.


There is a thread on Chinese carbon wheels going on right now. I ordered a pair of 60/88 clinchers that are on their way to me, and I plan on doing a full writeup.


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## jwcurry83

Any feedback on novatech hubs... good, bad, standard? Im talking about the alloy ones, not the carbon...


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## mcrent100

I think this guy has them in stock..

Just ordered a 58 yesterday but told me 3 days ago he has the 53... tony email: [email protected]




chocy said:


> Does anyone have extra 53cm 015-SPL?
> I was in a crash yesterday and now I need another one. Jenny tells me I have to wait a month!!
> Help!!
> 
> as for the detail. I was doing my afterwork loop at Central Park, and some idiot without any safety gear at night (no helmet, light etc) suddenly decided to make a turn in front of me without checking. my bike ran straight into his rear wheel (of course his bike was a cheap walmart tank) My Assault wheel went out of true (fixed) but then I got small cracks on the downtube right behind my head tube (see my previous post about my earlier crash!!) anyway, I could still ride it if I was suicidal but I am not. So now I need to figure out how to replace my frame without losing the whole July....
> 
> Let me know if anyone has an extra that they can let go...


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## Compu1980

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=216501


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## Ohm

New frames from Shangding?
I have bought a frame (mtb 016) from shangding with no problem at all.

Shangding FM-R827
https://shangding.en.alibaba.com/pr...ign_Full_Carbon_Fiber_Road_Frame_FM_R827.html










This one looks like Greatkeens 028 but without the internal routing of rear brake (it looks).
Shangding FM-R009
https://shangding.en.alibaba.com/pr...bon_Fiber_Road_Bicycle_frame_set_FM_R009.html










Greatkeen Tonys 028 to compare aganinst


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## Ohm

The area behind the bb don't look the same! I didn't see that before. Should be nice to compare against the "original" Velocite Magnus model.

Velocite Magnus (USD 1700)


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## WheresWaldo

PedalForce is running a group buy on their new RS3 frame. It certainly looks like an open mold from several of the other Chinese manufacturers/trading companies.


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## mjdwyer23

That Shangding FM-R827 looks like my PF RS2 with an ISP.


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## WheresWaldo

I forgot to include a link with the RS3 info. This, I believe is the frame they are selling:

https://carbon-products.en.alibaba.com/product/316537500-200176927/integrated_ISP_FM238_BB30.html#productDetailpageLocation










 Sanming Wish Trade Co., Ltd.


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## Ohm

They look very similar at least. Can't somebody put together a list with all the different "ebay* road frames together with pics of frames and complete bikes, reviews, and different sources?
How many could there be? 20?

Anybody?


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## mcrent100

Ohm said:


> The look very similar at least. Can't somebody put together a list with all the different "ebay* road frames together with pics of frames and complete bikes, reviews, and different sources?
> How many could there be? 20?
> 
> Anybody?



Good idea...Since you would like it you get to do it...:thumbsup:


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## Ohm

I don't think so - but good idea!


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## WheresWaldo

Ohm said:


> They look very similar at least. Can't somebody put together a list with all the different "ebay* road frames together with pics of frames and complete bikes, reviews, and different sources?
> How many could there be? 20?
> 
> Anybody?
> 
> 
> mcrent100 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good idea...Since you would like it you get to do it...:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Problem is where do you start?


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## WheresWaldo

*88bikefun*




















These first two are the exact same frame with different fork designs. None of Hong-Fu frames match this one. could not find it in Sunday Trade or Archteks either.


















I am not exactly sure that he still has all of these, but they are pulled from his photobucket account. I will let someone else match these to Chinese manufacturers.


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## WheresWaldo

*bikebicycle99*










This frame is identical to the first one from 88bikefun. Cannot find the Alibaba equivalent.











Similar looking to this bike from Gotobike with a slightly different head tube design: https://carbon-products.en.alibaba.com/product/274066024-200176927/carbon_bike_road_frame.html











This one appears to be the HF-FM004 from Hong-Fu. https://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Products.asp?Id=401



























This one appears to be the HF-FM004 from Hong-Fu. Identical to the one listed above but with a different cosmetic weave. https://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Products.asp?Id=401


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## WheresWaldo

*anybaby8088*


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## WheresWaldo

*bicyclemarket*


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## WheresWaldo

*carbonzone *(greatkeen)


























Most of the rest of his listings are for TT bikes.


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## philischen

Can't open the old thread. So I gonna ask here.

Anybody can tell me the weights of frame, fork and headset of a FM 015 NON ISP in size 58 (or close)??? Thanks a lot guys


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## WheresWaldo

philischen said:


> Can't open the old thread. So I gonna ask here.
> 
> Anybody can tell me the weights of frame, fork and headset of a FM 015 NON ISP in size 58 (or close)??? Thanks a lot guys


Can't answer your question about frame weight but the reason you can't open the old thread is that once a thread exceeds 1000 posts you need to view it in linear mode not threaded mode.

Go to "Display Mode" at the top right then select "Linear Mode", all threads will now be viewable in linear mode. Why this is not the default mode amazes me.


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## campLo

philischen said:


> Can't open the old thread. So I gonna ask here.
> 
> Anybody can tell me the weights of frame, fork and headset of a FM 015 NON ISP in size 58 (or close)??? Thanks a lot guys


Fork 396g
Frame 1100g

This is for the FM015 ISP in a 55. Fork is still uncut.


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## anks86

I've been scouring though the first thread on these frames and I still need a little help. I'm 5'4" 29" inseam and I am looking to buy the FM015 frame. I know that frame sizing is pretty subjective, but I am trying to choose between the 49cm and 51cm variants. Can anyone offer me some opinions on which one I should get?

I apologize for asking such a noob question. I come from a mountain biking background and this will be my first road bike.


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## slabber

I'm 5'6" and will be riding the 49cm FM015 that I just received. That should fit fine. The 51 will be too big IMO.


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## anks86

slabber said:


> I'm 5'6" and will be riding the 49cm FM015 that I just received. That should fit fine. The 51 will be too big IMO.


Thanks!


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## PLAYONIT

The 49 is for you..... 51 to big....




anks86 said:


> I've been scouring though the first thread on these frames and I still need a little help. I'm 5'4" 29" inseam and I am looking to buy the FM015 frame. I know that frame sizing is pretty subjective, but I am trying to choose between the 49cm and 51cm variants. Can anyone offer me some opinions on which one I should get?
> 
> I apologize for asking such a noob question. I come from a mountain biking background and this will be my first road bike.


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## JSWhaler

I've been looking at frames on ebay and alibaba.com. I am currently emailing with Erin Namika from Venus Rider Co. Has anyone heard about this company? I'm not comfortable sending money at this time. Don't want to get scammed. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


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## Dutch77

JSWhaler said:


> I've been looking at frames on ebay and alibaba.com. I am currently emailing with Erin Namika from Venus Rider Co. Has anyone heard about this company? I'm not comfortable sending money at this time. Don't want to get scammed. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


This seller here? http://www.alibaba.com/productshowimg/sg110124342-109548858-0/2010_Colnago_EPS_Road_Bike.html

Pinarello, Colnago, Parlee and Zipp... sounds like a sure of getting ripped off.


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## WheresWaldo

JSWhaler said:


> I've been looking at frames on ebay and alibaba.com. I am currently emailing with Erin Namika from Venus Rider Co. Has anyone heard about this company? I'm not comfortable sending money at this time. Don't want to get scammed. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


I would stay away from any supplier not listed as a Gold Supplier. Although no guarantee that you won't get ripped off, those companies pay for their listing and hosting to Alibaba and do not use their free accounts.

Always remember that if it sounds too good to be true, it likely is.


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## BlackDoggystyle

Got news from Tony (Greatkeen)

My FM28 ships on Monday....yeeeyyy!


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## skyline377

Does anyone have the FM28 yet I am really interested in that frame please post pic as sonn as you guys got them


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## BlackDoggystyle

skyline377 said:


> Does anyone have the FM28 yet I am really interested in that frame please post pic as sonn as you guys got them


I ordered and paid mine half april...so I guess I'm one of the first that are receiving the FM28 frame. 

I will post pictures as soon as the bike is complete.


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## NBarten

I don't know which hubs you're looking at, but Novatech has in the past been the main hub supplier for Reynolds cycling for the lower end carbon wheels. That's what I've heard anyway...


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## JSWhaler

Thanks WheresWaldo I figured, just amking sure. I also asked for a pic and they sent me a pic, which looked like it was taken from a bike show. lol


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## mcrent100

skyline377 said:


> Does anyone have the FM28 yet I am really interested in that frame please post pic as sonn as you guys got them


A friend on our local group ride had what appeared to be the FM028 and he really liked it.. I was going to order one but opted to get the FM015 due to the longer chainstays on the FM028... If I like the FM015 I will probably try the FM028 next time...Hoping the FM015 will ship next week..


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## freekthefunk

*Serial Numbers?*

Had my FM015 stolen. I don't seem to recall seeing any serial numbers on the frame. Can somebody verify this for me? Thanks.


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## dmabraham

Headset Question...

It seems like most of these frames are listed as a 1 1/8" integrated style headset (with the exception of those with tapered head tubes obviously). Also, same for the forks, that the steerer tube is 1 1/8".

Looking around I am a bit confused, as there seems to be a whole mess of standards, even within the integrated headset world.

So, assuming that the headset of the frame I order (listed as Integrated 1-1/8"), can I order any headset that is listed as integrated threadless 1-1/8 with an outer diameter for the bearings of 41.8mm x 45 degree?

Like say this one

Ebay Version

or the Orbit IS? When I looked over Cane Creek's site the Italian Std came into play too!

Last question, beyond asthetic appeal and usual worries about specing a no-name chinese part, is there anything wrong with order the inked product above? I didn't think there would be so many choices and levels ($$) in headsets.


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## slabber

That ebay headset is the same as what you'll get if you order a headset at the same time as the frame - cheaper to just add a headset to your order, that's what I did. Plus, you're guaranteed to get one that will work with your frame this way too. 

You can always upgrade it later if you find a need to... but that's not likely, at least in the near term. Plus, as you'll have a working headset, you can compare specs against a new one.


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## turbomatic73

*Ordering direct from Hong Fu?*

Can anyone comment on their experience ordering direct from Hong Fu? Was going to pull the trigger on a cyclocross fork. How much time does it typically take to deliver to the states? Assuming paypal is the best option? thanks!


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## mrbubbles

Does anyone know where the factory locations are? I will be in the region soon, so might as well pick them up directly from the manufacturer.


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## jessehibbs

turbomatic73 said:


> Can anyone comment on their experience ordering direct from Hong Fu? Was going to pull the trigger on a cyclocross fork. How much time does it typically take to deliver to the states? Assuming paypal is the best option? thanks!


I can't speak about quality, just customer service and delivery.
Just ordered frame, bars, and seatpost from hong fu. They were out of stock on the FM0015 (30 day wait), so I switched to an FM001. The order was placed on Monday, shipped on Tuesday with tracking info. The package is in San Francisco on Sunday (today), should be here early next week. I will post again on the quality and component weights once I start building.


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## dmabraham

slabber said:


> That ebay headset is the same as what you'll get if you order a headset at the same time as the frame - cheaper to just add a headset to your order, that's what I did. Plus, you're guaranteed to get one that will work with your frame this way too.
> 
> You can always upgrade it later if you find a need to... but that's not likely, at least in the near term. Plus, as you'll have a working headset, you can compare specs against a new one.


Thanks, grabbed one from the seller along with some spacers and a a seatpost. We'll see how it all works out.


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## coachstevo

I heard from our receiving department that my FM28 arrived on the 1st. Confirmed with tracking info. Unfortunately, i won't be able to pick it up until Thursday 8th. Will post picks as soon as i can.


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## WheresWaldo

coachstevo said:


> I heard from our receiving department that my FM28 arrived on the 1st. Confirmed with tracking info. Unfortunately, i won't be able to pick it up until Thursday 8th. Will post picks as soon as i can.


Coach, please take some good pictures, not iPhone snaps! I really want to see what these look like. I am expecting the arrival of an FM031 (FM015 clone from another manufacturer) and it is scheduled tentatively for the end of next week.

Since some have already received their frames I am also curious about how they plan on building it up. Will your bike be an everyday rider or will it be a weekend group ride bike? What components are planned? How long do you expect to keep the bike?


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## lawrencemonsters

how deep are the rims? 
They look great


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## lawrencemonsters

49 is for you also


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## andresmuro

WheresWaldo said:


> PedalForce is running a group buy on their new RS3 frame. It certainly looks like an open mold from several of the other Chinese manufacturers/trading companies.


Also, similar in looks the Sette Carbon Framset at $500 from pricepoint.

https://www.pricepoint.com/detail/19145-180_SETSS9-278-Frames--/Sette-Sasso-Carbon-Road-Frameset.htm


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## WheresWaldo

andresmuro said:


> Also, similar in looks the Sette Carbon Framset at $500 from pricepoint.
> 
> http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/19145-180_SETSS9-278-Frames--/Sette-Sasso-Carbon-Road-Frameset.htm












No, the head tube is completely different.

Here is another alternative to eBay from PricePoint










Unfortunately neither of these are available with BB30.


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## philischen

Can anybody tell me how to look into the old thread??? Doesn't work...


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## mdime

My FM015 was ordered in the first week of June and was supposed to ship today but when I emailed to verify I was given the "15 days late due to factory relocation" reply.

So how many others have had their order with Hong Fu pushed back 15 days because of factory relocation?


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## MTBMaven

philischen said:


> Can anybody tell me how to look into the old thread??? Doesn't work...


See post #43


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## freekthefunk

chocy said:


> Does anyone have extra 53cm 015-SPL?
> I was in a crash yesterday and now I need another one. Jenny tells me I have to wait a month!!
> Help!!
> 
> as for the detail. I was doing my afterwork loop at Central Park, and some idiot without any safety gear at night (no helmet, light etc) suddenly decided to make a turn in front of me without checking. my bike ran straight into his rear wheel (of course his bike was a cheap walmart tank) My Assault wheel went out of true (fixed) but then I got small cracks on the downtube right behind my head tube (see my previous post about my earlier crash!!) anyway, I could still ride it if I was suicidal but I am not. So now I need to figure out how to replace my frame without losing the whole July....
> 
> Let me know if anyone has an extra that they can let go...


Don't have an extra frame but could you look at your BB area an tell me if there is any serial number. This info may help me recover my stolen bike. 

Thanks.


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## BlackDoggystyle

Ohm said:


> This one looks like Greatkeens 028 but without the internal routing of rear brake (it looks).
> Shangding FM-R009
> https://shangding.en.alibaba.com/pr...bon_Fiber_Road_Bicycle_frame_set_FM_R009.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Greatkeen Tonys 028 to compare aganinst


I did an enquiry on that FM-R009 frame and that is what I got in reply:



> Thanks for your enquiry about our carbon Road Frame FM-R009.
> 
> I m Jessie Jia, in charge of sales of carbon bike parts, we mainly supply carbon bike frames, forks, rims, wheelsets, handlebars, seatposts, bottle cages, etc. Our main market is Europe, Asia, North America, etc. All our products are of European Quality Standard.
> 
> This model FM-R009, sorry, we dont sell now, could you please consider our another model FM-015S? Which is also seat post integrated frame. Here attached is our geometries and pictures, We can also make matt finish, paint finish, clear coat finish for you


So they don't make em yet...

And you know what funny is... I got a reply on this mail with only one minute diffirence from a email received from Tony (Greatkeen) coincidence?


----------



## philischen

mdime said:


> My FM015 was ordered in the first week of June and was supposed to ship today but when I emailed to verify I was given the "15 days late due to factory relocation" reply.
> 
> So how many others have had their order with Hong Fu pushed back 15 days because of factory relocation?


I also heard something from factory moving... But no shipping date for me...


----------



## coachstevo

WheresWaldo said:


> Coach, please take some good pictures, not iPhone snaps! I really want to see what these look like. I am expecting the arrival of an FM031 (FM015 clone from another manufacturer) and it is scheduled tentatively for the end of next week.
> 
> Since some have already received their frames I am also curious about how they plan on building it up. Will your bike be an everyday rider or will it be a weekend group ride bike? What components are planned? How long do you expect to keep the bike?



I will take loads of pics...

It'll be built up like my FM001: 7800 shifters, Ultegra derailleurs, FSA SLK cranks, FSA fancy schmanzy ergo carbon bars- for everyday i ride an old pair of wheels that are 1Kg, with a 105 cassette, for events (Climb to Kaiser, Death Ride, Tam Double, etc) i ride a bicycle wheel warehouse wheelset at 1340gm w/ a red cassette.
I ride on average 5 days/week- 4 commuting on a frankenbike, and one on this- 365 days rain or shine, no excuses.


----------



## mcrent100

mdime said:


> My FM015 was ordered in the first week of June and was supposed to ship today but when I emailed to verify I was given the "15 days late due to factory relocation" reply.
> 
> So how many others have had their order with Hong Fu pushed back 15 days because of factory relocation?


Ordered my FM015 last week with Tony @GreatKean and he sent an email last night saying it would ship this Wednesday..Delayed because I had them paint it matte black.Keeping my fingers crossed it happens on time.


----------



## WheresWaldo

mcrent100 said:


> Ordered my FM015 last week with Tony @GreatKean and he sent an email last night saying it would ship this Wednesday...


Other than matte black, was it BSA or BB30?


----------



## mcrent100

WheresWaldo said:


> Other than matte black, was it BSA or BB30?


No BB30 available I really wanted the UD finish and BB did not really matter to me...Seem the BB30 bearings need more love to keep them spinning nice but would have went that way if thats all I could get....Bike will most likely be full SRAM Red, FSA Bars and stem and Reynolds Attack wheels...


----------



## philischen

I have one more question regarding a size 58 FM015 NO ISP frame.

Can somebody messure the REAL Seattube length. Middle of BB to end of tube. Need to get a seatpost and don't know which length to get.


And regarding the old thread. I read I should open it in linear mode. But don't get it how to do so...


----------



## mcrent100

philischen said:


> I have one more question regarding a size 58 FM015 NO ISP frame.
> 
> Can somebody messure the REAL Seattube length. Middle of BB to end of tube. Need to get a seatpost and don't know which length to get.
> 
> 
> And regarding the old thread. I read I should open it in linear mode. But don't get it how to do so...


I don't have the drawing right in front of me.. But pretty sure the seat tube on the 58 NON ISP is 58CM Center to top . 

As for linear mode.. click on display mode on top of this thread and it will change it.. Then you will be able to go see the old thread...That worked for me anyway...


----------



## philischen

mcrent100 said:


> I don't have the drawing right in front of me.. But pretty sure the seat tube on the 58 NON ISP is 58CM Center to top .
> 
> As for linear mode.. click on display mode on top of this thread and it will change it.. Then you will be able to go see the old thread...That worked for me anyway...


Thread works now for me too... Thanks a lot.


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

Just to let you guys know... The seller carbonzone on ebay is Greatkeen. They just added the FM28 on the ebay listing...but the price is 100usd more than buying the frame outside EbaY 

Here the direct link to his Photobucket profile: https://s886.photobucket.com/home/Greatkeen/allalbums


----------



## dmabraham

*Add to the info*

Add to the information,

I ordered a, 

frame 481 shipped
seatpost, spacers, and headset 73 shipped

from 88Bikefun on ebay. The frame was ordered on 6-30, the rest on 7-4. Ill take some pics of everything when it all comes in and report back. Should be building in a few weeks time.

Thinking of either switching over my entire SRAM Red setup from my F100, or possibly parting it out on the ebay and purchasing a spanking new 2010 force. I would like a regular crank, not that compact I have now, and I really like the graphics and looks of the Force group. Is the _only_ difference between the group the weight in terms of functionality (like the trim, shift, actuation, etc is all the same). Seems like maybe I could have some leftover moola too with the switch which would help fund all this.

Frame


----------



## WheresWaldo

BlackDoggystyle said:


> Just to let you guys know... The seller carbonzone on ebay is Greatkeen. They just added the FM28 on the ebay listing...but the price is 100usd more than buying the frame outside EbaY
> 
> Here the direct link to his Photobucket profile: https://s886.photobucket.com/home/Greatkeen/allalbums


That is the link I used for the message on page 2. eBay+PayPal fees can be as much as 20% for sellers now, that is why many of the prices are no longer better than some online web stores.


----------



## Renderdog

*Fm-r009*



BlackDoggystyle said:


> Just to let you guys know... The seller carbonzone on ebay is Greatkeen. They just added the FM28 on the ebay listing...but the price is 100usd more than buying the frame outside EbaY
> 
> Here the direct link to his Photobucket profile: https://s886.photobucket.com/home/Greatkeen/allalbums



The carbonzone eBay ad calls this frame an "RB002" while Greatkeen's Alibaba listing calls the non-ISP frame an "FM28"?

The RB002 (with the Integrated Seat Post) is very similar to the Wenzhou Shangding FM-R009 frame Ohm posted earlier, I really like the frame's front end and the curves on the matching FK-R500 fork. The FM-R009 also appears to have a front derailleur braze-on mount (?) and claimed weight "1000 grams" while the RB002 lists "1230+/-50g"?

I wish they showed more than just a side view, difficult to tell what the seat and chain stays look like. carbonzone's eBay RB002 ad lists "353" as the chain stay length, any idea what they're measuring? That seems way too short.

With all their expertise in frame building it's too bad these companies don't have someone who can produce a decent website with detailed photos and specs.


----------



## philischen

Renderdog said:


> With all their expertise in frame building it's too bad these companies don't have someone who can produce a decent website with detailed photos and specs.



I think the problem is, they don't what to give too much information. The also have big customers like e.g. Cube. And I can imagine, Cube don't want see everbody buying a FM015 instead of a cube HTC...

So selling frames to customers direct is probably a side business for them


----------



## Maximus_XXIV

Any disc compatible cross bikes out there in China?


----------



## Duci

Maximus_XXIV said:


> Any disc compatible cross bikes out there in China?


Unfortunately not yet - I found a lot of canti cross bikes but not a single disc compatible frame  maybe someone else?


----------



## WheresWaldo

Maximus_XXIV said:


> Any disc compatible cross bikes out there in China?





Duci said:


> Unfortunately not yet - I found a lot of canti cross bikes but not a single disc compatible frame  maybe someone else?


Yeah I was at one point looking for a full suspension carbon MTB in a size other than 19". Now I am just concentrating on road only. Seems like the Chinese generic framebuilders are just behind the curve. That is just one advantage of the big players, they certainly have enough money, R/D and Marketing people to be on the cutting edge when it comes to bicycle design.


----------



## Cpk

that frame looks great! I certainly don't need to but I am having this strange urge to buy and build up a frame like that. Please let us know how it goes


----------



## asherstash1

does anyone have any ideas as to what this frame is meant to be or any experience of it?
http://topridecomp.en.alibaba.com/p...13Carbon_bicycle_frame_carbon_bike_frame.html


----------



## asherstash1

it also turns up on dengfu's alibaba as the fm027? 
http://www.greatkeen.com.cn/product...ork_carbon_frameset_carbon_bicycle_parts.html


----------



## krisdrum

Maximus_XXIV said:


> Any disc compatible cross bikes out there in China?


Yes. FM-020


----------



## bonz50

asherstash1 said:


> it also turns up on dengfu's alibaba as the fm027?
> http://www.greatkeen.com.cn/product...ork_carbon_frameset_carbon_bicycle_parts.html


this is the frameset i'm most interested in... though the 015 is a close second...:thumbsup:


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

HongFu is selling this frame for a long time know (especially on Ebay)...I even think it was one of theyr first frames the where selling. These frames have been selling on Ebay to for almost a year know.

Just look at anybaby8088 on Ebay...I'm sure she is still selling it.


----------



## Renderdog

Here also:

http://www.itsall4sports.com/goods/detail.asp?id=241


----------



## bonz50

ya, i've seen it out there for a while... haven't seen many reviews from owners though... plus I'm still acquiring the cash for this little project... probably will do it over winter as I begin to gather parts... probably do Soul wheels, Rival group cuz frankly, budget is an issue... if it wasn't I probably wouldn't even consider doing a build myself and just buy a branded complete bike


----------



## mcrent100

mcrent100 said:


> Ordered my FM015 last week with Tony @GreatKean and he sent an email last night saying it would ship this Wednesday..Delayed because I had them paint it matte black.Keeping my fingers crossed it happens on time.



My FM015 arrived today.. Pretty good service I would say from Tony @ greatkean... Paid last Thursday and a week later sitting on my door in California. And they had to paint it for me. Frame is flawless from what I can see. All cable guides are in good alignment and no scratches...Parts for build are not arriving until next Tuesday so I will plan on going for a ride on Tuesday night if everything comes and give a ride report of some kind...AND post pics of course...


----------



## philischen

Searched the old thread... But nobody posted sizes to the pics.

So, anbody can post his/her FM015 size 58 frame or bike??? Thanks


----------



## jessehibbs

*weights....*

.....


----------



## jessehibbs

Parts are in from Hong-fu; they arrived yesterday. Eight days from China to Arizona, including the 4th of July, pretty happy with that. The finish quality looks good, 12k is much better in person than in pics. I thought I was going to paint over it, but it is growing on me.
I threw everything on the scale before starting the build for all you weight weenies out there.

FM001 size 57cm - 1258 grams (listed on web at 1050 +/- 40, a little disappointing)
SP003 - 205 grams (listed 200 +/- 15)
FD006- 31.5 grams and 30.6 grams (no listing)
HB003- 283 grams (no listing)


----------



## kmancrx

jessehibbs said:


> Parts are in from Hong-fu; they arrived yesterday. Eight days from China to Arizona, including the 4th of July, pretty happy with that. The finish quality looks good, 12k is much better in person than in pics. I thought I was going to paint over it, but it is growing on me.
> I threw everything on the scale before starting the build for all you weight weenies out there.
> 
> FM001 size 57cm - 1258 grams (listed on web at 1050 +/- 40, a little disappointing)
> SP003 - 205 grams (listed 200 +/- 15)
> FD006- 31.5 grams and 30.6 grams (no listing)
> HB003- 283 grams (no listing)


I am probably going to get the FM001. I think I am going to get the matte finish. Post pics if you can.


----------



## raymonda

Just an update on an older, albeit, nice Chi-carb. Still riding strong and still the go to ride in my stable.


----------



## dmabraham

*Well Shucks*

Well, after all my excitement there is no frame coming. I dropped an ebay message to 88bikefun seven days after it was listed as shipping and he sent back, pretty quickly, that he couldn't get a tracking number and it was "my sorrow, lost in the mail." So I am guessing, for whatever reasons, it was never shipped. Maybe it was just delayed and the seller didn't want to admit, or maybe it was never coming in the first place, who knows. Regardless, he offered to send another one or give me a full refund. I took the reund, which came through paypal a day later.

I'm a little bummed about not getting a frame to build up, but its no real matter as I still love my bike! The only bummer is I ordered, seperatly, a seatpost, headset, and spacers from the same seller. I will wait another few days and again ask for a shipping number or status update. Ill just hold onto it all until another frame gives me an itch to build up a bike.

Long story short, seemingly more of a hassle through ebay but I did get all my money back and the seller (88bikefun) seemed easy enough to work with.

Excited to see some pics of all the 028s that people have been ordering.

D


----------



## Gearhead65

I'm wanting to buildup a nice lightweight 'relaxed' geometry frame for my wife. Need something in the 50-52cm, but NOT an aggresive racing frame. Compact design would be nice.

Would anyone be able to point me in the direction of some of the import carbon frames that would be similar in geometry to a Roubaix or Synapse?

Thanks,
Tom


----------



## heliguy81

*ebay frame with 2010 shimano 105*

is anyone looking for a fully build ebay bike?
after i build it and road around 50 mile. simply the frame is too big for me 
Frame size is 53cm but has a top tube of 56cm
it is build with full shimano 2010 105 group cankset length 172.5mm
every ingle part is carbon on the bike!!! 
100mm carbon stem
carbon handle
carbon seat post
carbon saddle 143mm
corbon seat clamp
carbon bottle cage
with shimano wh-r540 wheelset
very lite and fast!! hate to sell but dont have a choice it dont fit me..
asking 1500 shipped
Thank you 
Andy


----------



## heliguy81

oh... i bought itnew from local builder..


----------



## luca.grigo

Perhaps I'm going to buy this frame from Yishun. It will be my "first china no brand frame"

View attachment 205577

View attachment 205578

View attachment 205579


Any info for this?


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

Looks like the same frame that Camoso did put on the market. It's an sports clothing brand that sells frames to amateur teams...Can't find this frame in the stores. My dad has on just like this..gonna take some pictures when I get the chance.

This is one I found on the 2nd hand market. This frame sells at 1300€uro's over here.


----------



## doggatas

philischen said:


> Searched the old thread... But nobody posted sizes to the pics.
> 
> So, anbody can post his/her FM015 size 58 frame or bike??? Thanks


There ya go mate, any questions im happy to answer.


----------



## berndrea

heliguy, why would you buy a bike that doesnt fit you?


----------



## heliguy81

berndrea said:


> heliguy, why would you buy a bike that doesnt fit you?


on the website it says that its a 53cm bike...

my look is 54cm
my giant is 54.5cm
all top tube

but this bike has top tube of 55.8cm and the seat tube of 53cm, I thought 53cm was a top tube length


----------



## philischen

doggatas said:


> There ya go mate, any questions im happy to answer.



Thanks a lot. One more question: Messurement center BB to top of saddle


----------



## arshak

WheresWaldo said:


> Yeah I was at one point looking for a full suspension carbon MTB in a size other than 19". Now I am just concentrating on road only. Seems like the Chinese generic framebuilders are just behind the curve. That is just one advantage of the big players, they certainly have enough money, R/D and Marketing people to be on the cutting edge when it comes to bicycle design.


Lead times for manufacturing take much longer than designing or prototyping frames. especially, working out the kinks in the molds. Research & Development, for the most part is being done through FEA and CAAD i.e. virtually, and Marketing is where most of the cost of the "Big players" goes to. The one thing that the established players have is the warranty on the frames and that is also built into the price. You will be seeing a deluge of carbon 29er frames and carbon cross frames with disc tabs in 2011.


----------



## WheresWaldo

arshak said:


> Lead times for manufacturing take much longer than designing or prototyping frames. especially, working out the kinks in the molds. Research & Development, for the most part is being done through FEA and CAAD i.e. virtually, and Marketing is where most of the cost of the "Big players" goes to. The one thing that the established players have is the warranty on the frames and that is also built into the price. You will be seeing a deluge of carbon 29er frames and carbon cross frames with disc tabs in 2011.


I do not disagree with any of what you said and expect as much for 2011


----------



## dmabraham

Any pictures of delivered or built up FM028s yet?


----------



## mjdwyer23

WheresWaldo said:


> I do not disagree with any of what you said and expect as much for 2011


Agreed -- carbon 29er frames need to hit main stream first and then we will see a bunch of them (and i will buy one).


----------



## PLAYONIT

*Rear brake cable routing on my FM-015*

Any 015 owners have issues with the through frame rear brake cable route? mine has never been right. after grabbing the brake the rear caliper closes but doesn't release fully . It appears the cable is hanging up somewhere in the top tube?? any thoughts???


----------



## jeffxxxwhiteford

PLAYONIT said:


> Any 015 owners have issues with the through frame rear brake cable route? mine has never been right. after grabbing the brake the rear caliper closes but doesn't release fully . It appears the cable is hanging up somewhere in the top tube?? any thoughts???


Mine is pretty rough too. Intially it barely worked, but started to get a bit better. Its just routed funny I think, tight in and out. Would love to find a good solution


----------



## slabber

PLAYONIT said:


> Any 015 owners have issues with the through frame rear brake cable route? mine has never been right. after grabbing the brake the rear caliper closes but doesn't release fully . It appears the cable is hanging up somewhere in the top tube?? any thoughts???


I haven't built mine up yet... Is there a full tube inside the top tube or did you have to fish it through? I wonder if it would benefit from a teflon liner for the full length?


----------



## PLAYONIT

slabber said:


> I haven't built mine up yet... Is there a full tube inside the top tube or did you have to fish it through? I wonder if it would benefit from a teflon liner for the full length?


No. you don't have to fish it.. the tube runs through it.... That was a good way to describe it. Tight in and out..


----------



## tthome

I have the FM001 and the FM015. When I routed the rear brake cable in the FM015 it was a little rough to install and it sounds a little rough when testing the brakes on the stand but I don't experience any cable hanging or catching where the brake won't return to position. I would think it's catching on something inside or possibly the cable tube diameter is a little too small or kinked up. I would remove the brake cable, tilt the bike up with head tube facing the ceiling and put a few drops of Finish Line lube in and let it seep towards the other end of the cable guide. I wouldn't soak it, but would atleast put a little lubrication in there. It might help.


----------



## tommyglennon

Has anyone taken delivery of the FM28 frame (non tt) yet? It sounded like there should be a whole bunch of builds going right now.
also has anyone heard from Tony greatkeen recently? I am trying to get some more information from him on this frame and some other parts.
Has anyone tried the carbon handlebars from greatkeen? Or any other generic?


----------



## coachstevo

tommyglennon said:


> Has anyone taken delivery of the FM28 frame (non tt) yet? It sounded like there should be a whole bunch of builds going right now.
> also has anyone heard from Tony greatkeen recently? I am trying to get some more information from him on this frame and some other parts.
> Has anyone tried the carbon handlebars from greatkeen? Or any other generic?


I'm doing my build now...bike is pretty, 3K 54cm ISP, BSA, - no alignment issues, no real flaws in the 3K weave.

I'll post pics in a bit


----------



## kmancrx

*Questions about differences in geometry*

So I am going back and forth about which frame to choose. I am between the FM001 and the FM004. I have a question about the differences in geometries. Currently I ride a 52 cm bike with a standard TT that measures 53 cm in length with a 73 deg seat tube. I am between the FM001 in the size 50 which has a 53 cm TT and a ST angle of 74.5 deg and the FM004 which has a 53.5 cm TT with a ST angle of 73.5 cm. 

How much difference will the ST angle make in my reach. I would think that a steeper ST angle would put you closer to the BB and closer to the bars. Is this correct?

Here are my measurements from the competitive cyclist fit calculator.
Measurements
-------------------------------------------
Inseam: 31
Trunk: 25
Forearm: 13
Arm: 24.25
Thigh: 22.25
Lower Leg: 20.25
Sternal Notch: 55.5
Total Body Height: 68


The Competitive Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 51.0 - 51.5
Seat tube range c-t: 52.6 - 53.1
Top tube length: 53.1 - 53.5 
Stem Length: 10.7 - 11.3
BB-Saddle Position: 69.9 - 71.9
Saddle-Handlebar: 50.7 - 51.3
Saddle Setback: 3.6 - 4.0


The Eddy Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 52.2 - 52.7
Seat tube range c-t: 53.8 - 54.3
Top tube length: 53.1 - 53.5
Stem Length: 9.6 - 10.2
BB-Saddle Position: 69.1 - 71.1
Saddle-Handlebar: 51.5 - 52.1
Saddle Setback: 4.8 - 5.2


The French Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 53.9 - 54.4
Seat tube range c-t: 55.5 - 56.0
Top tube length: 54.3 - 54.7
Stem Length: 9.8 - 10.4
BB-Saddle Position: 67.4 - 69.4
Saddle-Handlebar: 53.2 - 53.8
Saddle Setback: 4.3 - 4.7

















Thanks


----------



## MooseDawg

*FINALLY built mine up*

Greetings all.

Here's mine. Purchased directly from Archteks. I dealt with Henry. Except for taking a bit longer than expected (20+ days), it was a good experience. Frame quality was excellent--zero blemishes or scratches. My main complaint would be that the clear coat was laid on unnecessarily thick. Again, like most others said, don't be in a rush to receive it.

On to my build. I was dissatisfied with the stock seat mast head. The stock mast head weighed a whopping 170g. I wanted to use something better. The problem is that these frames don't use a standard seat mast size. The frame is 36.9 mm. I did a ton of research and decided that I wanted to use Woodman IT-Ti 35.9 mm seat mast head. The Woodman weighs only 95g. 

Well, like I said, the frame is 36.9 mm and the largest Woodman is 35.9. So, I got sanding. Yep--my carbon frame. I patiently sanded the top of the seat post down to 35.9 using wet 400 and 600 grit sand paper. When I finished, I put a light coat of clear coat to protect against UV. As the pick shows, it fits perfectly. Worried about thinning the frame? No. It's still 35.9 mm.

In sum, it's a hellofalot lighter, a solid, well made seat clamp, and looks better than any other choice out there. Totally worth it imo.

The rest of the build was scavenged from my last frame. I've got limited funds and every piece was purchased on sale or on ebay; my philosophy is get the best performance/weight for the $. So my build is: SRAM Rival levers, brakes, chain and derailleurs (4 years old); FSA team carbon cranks (about 7 years old); DA rear cassette (works great w/SRAM and is quite a bit lighter), Keo carbon pedals, Specialized bottle cages, no name carbon handle bars for a mere $40 when I bought the frame, Deda zero stem, FSA headset, E3 titanium rail seat, Chris King spacers (bling, I know--will match the custom paint job a friend of mine will be doing); and, Reynolds MVT 32 tubular wheels ($1100 off chain luv a couple years ago). 

Weighs in at 14.99 lbs as seen in the pic, +/- .005 lb (Ultimate Support Alpine scale)--size 55 frame.

The ride is awesome. Soaks up road vibrations, is super stiff laterally, climbs and descends unbelievably well. In the end, I'm incredibly pleased with the frame, fork and handlebars that cost me $500 total (including shipping). I'll be having a friend of mine custom paint it. I'll post when finished.

Thanks to all those before me in these threads for your thoughts and experience. It really helped me get this ride together. 

Cheers


----------



## WheresWaldo

MooseDawg said:


> Greetings all.
> 
> Here's mine. Purchased directly from Archteks. I dealt with Henry. Except for taking a bit longer than expected (20+ days), it was a good experience. Frame quality was excellent--zero blemishes or scratches. My main complaint would be that the clear coat was laid on unnecessarily thick. Again, like most others said, don't be in a rush to receive it.
> 
> On to my build. I was dissatisfied with the stock seat mast head. The stock mast head weighed a whopping 170g. I wanted to use something better. The problem is that these frames don't use a standard seat mast size. The frame is 36.9 mm. I did a ton of research and decided that I wanted to use Woodman IT-Ti 35.9 mm seat mast head. The Woodman weighs only 95g.
> 
> Well, like I said, the frame is 36.9 mm and the largest Woodman is 35.9. So, I got sanding. Yep--my carbon frame. I patiently sanded the top of the seat post down to 35.9 using wet 400 and 600 grit sand paper. When I finished, I put a light coat of clear coat to protect against UV. As the pick shows, it fits perfectly. Worried about thinning the frame? No. It's still 35.9 mm.
> 
> In sum, it's a hellofalot lighter, a solid, well made seat clamp, and looks better than any other choice out there. Totally worth it imo.
> 
> The rest of the build was scavenged from my last frame. I've got limited funds and every piece was purchased on sale or on ebay; my philosophy is get the best performance/weight for the $. So my build is: SRAM Rival levers, brakes, chain and derailleurs (4 years old); FSA team carbon cranks (about 7 years old); DA rear cassette (works great w/SRAM and is quite a bit lighter), Keo carbon pedals, Specialized carbon bottle cages, no name carbon handle bars for a mere $40 when I bought the frame, Deda zero stem, FSA headset, E3 titanium rail seat, Chris King spacers (bling, I know--will match the custom paint job a friend of mine will be doing); and, Reynolds MVT 32 tubular wheels ($1100 off chain luv a couple years ago).
> 
> Weighs in at 14.99 lbs as seen in the pic, +/- .005 lb (Ultimate Support Alpine scale).
> 
> The ride is awesome. Soaks up road vibrations, is super stiff laterally, climbs and descends unbelievably well.
> 
> In the end, I'm incredibly pleased with the frame, fork and handlebars that cost me $500 total (including shipping). I'll be having a friend of mine custom paint it. I'll post when finished.
> 
> Thanks to all those before me in these threads for your thoughts and experience. It really helped me get this ride together.
> 
> Cheers


I am also waiting for a frame from Henry at Archteks, except it is BB30, UD unfinished along with fork, bars and a couple of bottle cages. It is good to see one actually delivered. I have till the end of this week before the initial ship date, if I don't hear from Henry on Friday I will send an email to see where we are. Mine will be closer to 25 days.


----------



## MooseDawg

Where's Waldo,

Correction to my post: It took 30 days from payment date to shipping date, and then I received the bike 6 days after (March 23 paid, April 23 shipped, April 29 received). Sorry about the typo.

Communication with Henry was great. In general, he was very quick to respond. He apologized for the delay. My understanding from prior posters is that they wait until they can pool enough bikes to fill a container so that they don't lose $ on shipping. Doesn't make it any less frustrating though (esp if you had expectations to have received it by now).

Hope you get yours sooner rather than later.


----------



## anks86

if it helps any I just put an order in about a week ago. hopefully they get these shipped out soon!


----------



## MooseDawg

PLAYONIT said:


> Any 015 owners have issues with the through frame rear brake cable route? mine has never been right. after grabbing the brake the rear caliper closes but doesn't release fully . It appears the cable is hanging up somewhere in the top tube?? any thoughts???


I have an FM015 clone (FM032 from Archteks) that I finished building (see other post today).

I had the same issue -- a rough, even catching, rear brake cable initially. I did 4 things to address the problem: (1) used Teflon coated cable; (2) used the more expensive flexible cable housing ($1.25/ft rather than $1.00/ft); (3) used a tiny camel bak brush to clean out both ends of the frame tube (a bunch of gunk came out); and (4) used an over-sized ferrel on the cable that connected to the forward hole on the frame and then slightly bored-out the ferrel (just used the tip of some scissors) on the rearward end leaving the frame--this allows for smoother/less sharp angles of entry and exit, thus reducing cable friction. One more thing: the length of the cable housing btwn the frame and brake was really hard to dial in. I burned several feet of cable housing getting it right--very finicky on this frame.

Works smooth as silk now.

Hope this helps. Feel free to pm me if you have more specific questions on this.


----------



## RedRider93

> Specialized carbon bottle cages


sorry to burst your bubble, those are fake carbon. they are just plastic with decals to look like carbon, the real Speci carbon cages don't have the red rubber and are of the S-works flavor.


----------



## MooseDawg

RedRider93 said:


> sorry to burst your bubble, those are fake carbon. they are just plastic with decals to look like carbon, the real Speci carbon cages don't have the red rubber and are of the S-works flavor.


I stand humbly corrected. The cages in the photo are not carbon.


----------



## ory69

Anyone try or use merekbike.com or merekbike on ebay? I did a search on the board and no results, so wondering if anyone has any experience with them. They seem to be pretty high quality and have nice fancy logos which should make you much faster. I ordered this stem and handlebar and it arrived today.


----------



## dmabraham

Does $525 shipped sound rigth for the price people are getting from Tony at great keen for an FM028 ISP with fork and headset?


----------



## Pinarc

I got frames of follow and very nice,from greatkeenbike.com Ms.hu


----------



## ljfran2383

I recieved my Fm028 yesterday. A temporary build will be done thursday, but if I like it it will be some nicer stuff. can't find my camera charger though. :mad2:


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

dmabraham said:


> Does $525 shipped sound rigth for the price people are getting from Tony at great keen for an FM028 ISP with fork and headset?


Yes

I paid:

Frame+fork =390usd
Headset= 14usd
Shipping (Belgium)= 80usd
Paypal excess charge= 18usd
For a total of 502usd

Then I paid 45usd extra for Matte finish to make it a grand total of 547usd.

Can't wait for the damn frame...stuck in customs..aahhh...public servants...they just don't know what fast working is.


----------



## slabber

Looks like the US Road Race champ is riding an FM015 ISP...










Sold by Mercury Bikes as the Titan... 
https://www.mercurybikes.com/Default.asp?cat=1037

Note that Mercury offers a limited lifetime warranty.


----------



## jborg28

Pinarc said:


> I got frames of follow and very nice,from greatkeenbike.com Ms.hu


What price are these sold at?


----------



## Gearhead65

Looking for a 'knock-off' frame of a comfort bike like a:

Look 566
Cervelo RS
Giant Defy Advanced
??

and a company that has the ability to paint the graphics.

Any suggestions on companies/model numbers that are similar?

Thanks!


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

I'm in the final stages of ordering from Jenny. I'm really not used to doing business this way--she seems really scattered (although certainly pleasant).

I particularly did not like the deal that was posted just before they closed out the thread before this one--where the guy got a defective frame and they expected him to pay to ship it back. 

Also, there was another past toward the beginning of that 45-page thread where the customer said that his package arrived damaged and some of the stuff he ordered was not there and "Jenny doesn't want to help". 

Jenny says that their frames have a 2-year warranty, but where's the fine print?

I finally sent Jenny this email a few minutes ago:
"Also, I just read on roadbikereview forums where one of your customers received a defective frame from you. You said you would replace the frame, but he was supposed to pay to ship the defective frame back. Is this true?

Also, there was another customer a few months ago who said his package from you was damaged and some of the stuff he ordered was not in the box. He said "Jenny was not willing to help". Is this true?

I apologize for being a pest about this, but I am used to everything being clear, in writing, and i am not real comfortable with vagueness.

What i want you to tell me is that if you screw up and send defective merchandise or I don't get everything I paid for, you will take care of it and it's not going to cost me more $$. Can you do that?"

I get the impression that you guys are willing to gamble big just because it's a cheap price. I think this is a mistake since a cheap price to us is a lot of money to them--how much do you think it costs them to produce a frame? Take a guess . . .

We'll see what she says. I guess if they think I'm unreasonable, they won't sell to me. Which would be a shame, because i really want the stuff . . .

What do you guys think about this?


----------



## Dutch77

> What do you guys think about this?


Pay with paypal, open a dispute if there's anything wrong.

Seems like Jenny's english isn't very good, I've emailed with questions and I get an unrelated answer


----------



## anks86

anks86 said:


> if it helps any I just put an order in about a week ago. hopefully they get these shipped out soon!


Just got tracking info from Henry! :thumbsup:


----------



## karlch

hi there new to this forum im looking at trying some of these ebay chinese frames and rims has anyone used the ltk006 and the fk006 frame and fork it also comes with the seat post.
cheers in advance


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

*Reply from Jenny at HongFu*



ClarkinHawaii said:


> I'm in the final stages of ordering from Jenny. I'm really not used to doing business this way--she seems really scattered (although certainly pleasant).
> 
> I particularly did not like the deal that was posted just before they closed out the thread before this one--where the guy got a defective frame and they expected him to pay to ship it back.
> 
> Also, there was another past toward the beginning of that 45-page thread where the customer said that his package arrived damaged and some of the stuff he ordered was not there and "Jenny doesn't want to help".
> 
> Jenny says that their frames have a 2-year warranty, but where's the fine print?
> 
> I finally sent Jenny this email a few minutes ago:
> "Also, I just read on roadbikereview forums where one of your customers received a defective frame from you. You said you would replace the frame, but he was supposed to pay to ship the defective frame back. Is this true?
> 
> Also, there was another customer a few months ago who said his package from you was damaged and some of the stuff he ordered was not in the box. He said "Jenny was not willing to help". Is this true?
> 
> I apologize for being a pest about this, but I am used to everything being clear, in writing, and i am not real comfortable with vagueness.
> 
> What i want you to tell me is that if you screw up and send defective merchandise or I don't get everything I paid for, you will take care of it and it's not going to cost me more $$. Can you do that?"
> 
> I get the impression that you guys are willing to gamble big just because it's a cheap price. I think this is a mistake since a cheap price to us is a lot of money to them--how much do you think it costs them to produce a frame? Take a guess . . .
> 
> We'll see what she says. I guess if they think I'm unreasonable, they won't sell to me. Which would be a shame, because i really want the stuff . . .
> 
> What do you guys think about this?


Here is reply regarding warranty issues. It seems reasonable enough, although it's still vague. For serious issue they pay shipping of bike. For less serious issue buyer pays shipping. So who determines if it's serious?--haha. Anyway, I'm satisfied but it turns out that the stuff she told me was in stock now requires 45-day wait. I'm not patient enough to deal with her. Here's her email:

" . . .hi,Clark 
thanks for your email!
yes, if your goods have a little questions,then if you want to one new frame,then you need pay the shipping cost to send back the goods to us
then we will send one new one to you free cost.
I do not know there have some of our customer less things I do not help , we will asked the customer how to do it. 
2 method ,one is refund the money of the good,other is send the things again.
sometime less the little things,then we will choose to refund the money. because the shipping cost is very expensive.
maybe the customer are must need us shipping the little things to he,so we choose refund the money,so he feel we do not help .
about this point ,I do have little situation like this. as you know the shipping cost is very high. our little profit already less 
than the shipping cost. so if we shipping the little things again,then we must be lose our cost price.
in fact,all the little things you also can order in your country's bike shop. so sometime our factory also need our customer to help us.
and give high understanding. if the frame and fork have bigger problem. then we must be pay the both side shipping cost.
oh yes,our FM001 have size 52cm,but no 3k finish. so I think we can't help you .if you can waiting 45 workdays
then you can place an order to me,then we will arragne to produce for you.

best regards!
Jenny


----------



## martylane

ClarkinHawaii said:


> I get the impression that you guys are willing to gamble big just because it's a cheap price.


I think you're right about that. I'm hoping I don't receive a defective frame, but if I do, I'm prepared to accept whatever hassles I encounter to correct the problem (or not). Is this unwise? It probably is, but I have a garage full of arguably unwise cycling purchases -- you can ask my wife! 

Personally, I'd feel much better getting my frame from my local bike shop, which happens to be a really good one -- I'd get all kinds of service and guarantees from them. But, I'd likely pay an extra $2k to get that peace of mind, which puts a a carbon frame way out of reach for me. I'd rather pocket that $2k, and take my chances with the $500 frame.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

martylane said:


> I think you're right about that. I'm hoping I don't receive a defective frame, but if I do, I'm prepared to accept whatever hassles I encounter to correct the problem (or not). Is this unwise? It probably is, but I have a garage full of arguably unwise cycling purchases -- you can ask my wife!
> 
> Personally, I'd feel much better getting my frame from my local bike shop, which happens to be a really good one -- I'd get all kinds of service and guarantees from them. But, I'd likely pay an extra $2k to get that peace of mind, which puts a a carbon frame way out of reach for me. I'd rather pocket that $2k, and take my chances with the $500 frame.


Well, I think it's a lot less of a gamble because of the forum here. I think there's safety in numbers--while they might be willing to screw some little guy from nowheresville, they would think twice about it if they knew the whole cycling world was going to hear about it.

The reason I posted her email is so that if people have problems in the future, they can refer to it and say, "Hey, on July 14, 2010 you said . . . "

I personally think they should have done something with the guy whose cable guide was crooked, but it was borderline. I can also see where they're coming from.

Being a cheapskate at heart, half the pleasure I'm going to get from my new bike is the warm fuzzy feeling that I got a super good deal. I honestly would like a bike a lot less if i paid full price.


----------



## intence

I'm a bit confused, so what's the difference between the different vendors? (HongFu, GreatKeen, Archtek, etc.?). For example, they all have an FM015 frame, is it the same frame made in one factory and then finished by the vendors, are they all using the same mold and making the frame themselves, or do the numbers just refer to similar looking frames and each one is made in-house by each vendor?


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

intence said:


> I'm a bit confused, so what's the difference between the different vendors? (HongFu, GreatKeen, Archtek, etc.?). For example, they all have an FM015 frame, is it the same frame made in one factory and then finished by the vendors, are they all using the same mold and making the frame themselves, or do the numbers just refer to similar looking frames and each one is made in-house by each vendor?


Very good question. From what I've read, i believe they all come from the same source, but i don't know for sure and if so, I don't know which one is the source.

On the other hand, it could be that the molds came from one source, but they just copied them and distributed so that each little "factory" makes their own.

I don't think anybody knows for sure, but hopefully I'm wrong.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

I was going with Hongfu Jenny, but if they don't have my stuff in stock, I'm ready to try one of the others. 

I sent the Greatkeen guy an email the other day and he never bothered to reply (others on here have said the same thing). If they won't talk to you *before* the sale, i can just imagine what the service is like *after* the sale.

How about this Archtek? Or still another source? Opinions?


----------



## IRMB

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Very good question. From what I've read, i believe they all come from the same source, but i don't know for sure and if so, I don't know which one is the source.
> 
> On the other hand, it could be that the molds came from one source, but they just copied them and distributed so that each little "factory" makes their own.
> 
> I don't think anybody knows for sure, but hopefully I'm wrong.


I'm having trouble getting a big frame from any of these guys.

I need a 590'ish millimeter top tube. I was looking at the rfm002, http://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/cp_detail.php?id=37&nowmenuid=12&cpath=0009:&catid=0

which in a 58 has a 595m top tube - but they said they couldn't get it. Then they suggested various other frames - but something was lost in translation and now I can't get a response.

Does anyone know which frames are available in larger sizes and from which vendors?


----------



## intence

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Very good question. From what I've read, i believe they all come from the same source, but i don't know for sure and if so, I don't know which one is the source.
> 
> On the other hand, it could be that the molds came from one source, but they just copied them and distributed so that each little "factory" makes their own.
> 
> I don't think anybody knows for sure, but hopefully I'm wrong.


This is what worries me. If the source is the same there's no problem, if they all have their own little factory, then their are probably differences in the type of carbon used (brand, modulus, etc), the resin, and the overall workmanship.


----------



## WheresWaldo

Hong-Fu is really good at swiping pictures from the net. They must be monitoring this thread.

http://www.e-hongfu-bikes.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=82&products_id=252

http://www.e-hongfu-bikes.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=82&products_id=253

http://www.e-hongfu-bikes.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=82&products_id=254

http://www.e-hongfu-bikes.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=82&products_id=244

Among others


----------



## missinglink

Hi guys, 

looking to make my first china frame purchase, but haven't ridden a road bike in quite some time. I've been on a Specialized Transition and I ride very steep, about 78* angle.

My inseam is 54cm, should I go with the 54cm frame? I've been in contact with Tony and they have the FM028 in stock with the ISP, for those that have used ISP's in the past, what are the benefits? A lighter bike? Better feel for the road?

Thanks for the help!


----------



## WheresWaldo

missinglink said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> looking to make my first china frame purchase, but haven't ridden a road bike in quite some time. I've been on a Specialized Transition and I ride very steep, about 78* angle.
> 
> My inseam is 54cm, should I go with the 54cm frame? I've been in contact with Tony and they have the FM028 in stock with the ISP, for those that have used ISP's in the past, what are the benefits? A lighter bike? Better feel for the road?
> 
> Thanks for the help!


Simple answer, NO. If your inseam is really just 21" long (54 cm) a 54cm bike would be way too big. First step is to get in the ballpark. The easiest way is to try an online bike fit calculator like Competitive Cyclist has (follow the link). Then you can decide what size bike will fit.


----------



## Safeway

Damn, it is almost impossible to navigate around these China sites. Can one of you direct me to:

A frame that comes in 58/59/60cm - without ISP - with BB30 - with internal routing - suitable for 185lb


----------



## intence

If the factories are all independent, then we don't even know if the type of CF is the same. One could be using Toray T-700 or something, while someone else uses something lesser.


----------



## missinglink

Thanks, will do. I wish my tri bike geometry could transfer over.

Mike


----------



## IRMB

Safeway said:


> Damn, it is almost impossible to navigate around these China sites. Can one of you direct me to:
> 
> A frame that comes in 58/59/60cm - without ISP - with BB30 - with internal routing - suitable for 185lb


I am looking for the same thing (with or without BB30) and haven't had much luck.


----------



## Safeway

I'd prefer BB30. I can do without internal routing. So, 58/59/60 with BB30?


----------



## dmabraham

Just ordered a size 56 matte black FM028-ISP from Tony at Great Keen. Frame, fork, headset, shipping, paypal fee came to 544. It is an English BB and he claims they are in stock and should ship within 5 days. Also the invoice had a lead time of 5 days on it as well.

I paid through paypal with a credit card, hoping that if something goes a miss, as in nothing ships, I will have two routes to pursue to make a claim. It does feel weird sending mondey and just hoping, but it seems like Great Keen has had a good series of experiences so far. I was just burned on a frame on ebay from 88bikefun, but did get all of my money and shipping refunded to my CC.

Got this one,


----------



## admammo

I sent a message to CarbonZone and got this reply..

"Our factory is the manufacturer of the framesets. Our name is Baolijia Sports Lo,.LTD."

I thought it CarbonZone was "Greatkeen" but now Baolijia Sports is thrown into the mix?

Anyone heard of them?

Was thinking of just going "direct" through Hong Fu? Thoughts


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

Well, I think i finally got Jenny (at HongFu) to understand what I want and placed this order (I'll show prices for those readers who are wondering):
(1) FM001 Size 52 275USD
> (1) FK022 30USD
> (1)1 1/8" headset fit road frame 15USD
> (1)CL001 gift
> (1)FD009 12.5USD/pcs
> (1)FD010 12.5USD/pcs
> (1) extra rear derailleur hanger gift (can send one more as a gift)
> PAINT FRAME AND FORK ONE COLOR--RED 40USD
> total shipping cost is 70USD
 > (1) extra unpainted FK022 (any carbon finish OK) 30USD
> Total cost = US$485

I will be absolutely AMAZED if the ordershows up with no mistakes--trying to communicate across the language barrier is unbelievably frustrating.:mad2: 

Most of you will not have problems, as you will just be ordering a standard item such as they deal with all the time.

My problem is that I wanted something DIFFERENT (carbon fork with alloy steerer) and that just blew their minds away.

I need the alloy steerer because my bars are going to be higher than you young studs and I don't trust carbon steerer with a bunch of spacers.

I'll post results when my "mystery package" arrives. Fingers crossed.


----------



## slabber

WheresWaldo said:


> Hong-Fu is really good at swiping pictures from the net. They must be monitoring this thread.
> 
> http://www.e-hongfu-bikes.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=82&products_id=252
> 
> http://www.e-hongfu-bikes.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=82&products_id=253
> 
> http://www.e-hongfu-bikes.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=82&products_id=254
> 
> http://www.e-hongfu-bikes.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=82&products_id=244
> 
> Among others


They do for sure - which I figure is fine and good for them too as they see what matters to us etc. Jenny mentioned she saw my posts about the misaligned cable stop etc. I felt it was important to let others know about the issue and also that HongFu realizes that those kinds of things matter to us as discerning customers. 

Ultimately, I don't think it's worth shipping it back to China so I'll live with it and/or modify the stop placement to make it better. I feel HongFu's response was reasonable and it was implied they would assist with any reasonable repair cost, should I choose that route. 

I would order from HongFu again, no problem. 

Certainly better than paying full pop for a Mercury or Boyd frame... and I like my stealth matte clear coat on the 3k frame.


----------



## tommyglennon

Ok guys, I am getting ready to order my chinese frame from Tony @greatkean-
FM28, frame fork post, headset, wb cages, and bars.... big timer here-

I have a few questions for those who have built these frames-
1. Do I need to get the head tube faced?
2. Do I need to get the BB faced?
3. What cable stops work on these frames, I really dont want an inline adjuster.
4. Has anyone ridden this frame yet? 
5. Sizing, I am currently on a 62cm 5200, its huge- I am doing this to down-size a bit and I think that i will be needed a 58cm. I have gone to competitive cyclist and the fit program says that this will fall in the performance fit. Anyone who is 6'2" With 34" inseam and decent arm length ride a 58? any suggestions?

Thanks for your response in advance, I know it was long winded, I just dont want to spend this much money on something I wont be happy with- I did that once already.


----------



## doggatas

Totally agree with slabber. While there were a couple of imperfections, none of which couldn't be rectified with some basic mods.

Now i have a question for those FM015-SPL owners who are not running the stock Seat Post topper. I have searched the thread and i couldn't find a definitive answer.

What size (diameter) Ritchey or alternative topper do i need to replace the stock option. I am interested in toppers only, not the options where a seat post is inserted into the ISP.

I have mearsured the ID of the stock topper and it appears to be 37.9, i also measured the OD of the POST itself and that appears to be 35.9.

When looking at the diameter of the ritchey and other branded toppers is the diameter they quote the ID of the topper of the OD of the post it will fit on?

Cheers in advance


----------



## doggatas

tommyglennon said:


> Ok guys, I am getting ready to order my chinese frame from Tony @greatkean-
> FM28, frame fork post, headset, wb cages, and bars.... big timer here-
> 
> I have a few questions for those who have built these frames-
> 1. Do I need to get the head tube faced?
> 2. Do I need to get the BB faced?
> 3. What cable stops work on these frames, I really dont want an inline adjuster.
> 4. Has anyone ridden this frame yet?
> 5. Sizing, I am currently on a 62cm 5200, its huge- I am doing this to down-size a bit and I think that i will be needed a 58cm. I have gone to competitive cyclist and the fit program says that this will fall in the performance fit. Anyone who is 6'2" With 34" inseam and decent arm length ride a 58? any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks for your response in advance, I know it was long winded, I just dont want to spend this much money on something I wont be happy with- I did that once already.


1. Didnt need to
2. Didnt need to
3. I used the ones that came off my specialised S-works roubaix
4. I have 015, so no
5. As above


----------



## jwcurry83

admammo said:


> I sent a message to CarbonZone and got this reply..
> 
> "Our factory is the manufacturer of the framesets. Our name is Baolijia Sports Lo,.LTD."
> 
> I thought it CarbonZone was "Greatkeen" but now Baolijia Sports is thrown into the mix?
> 
> Anyone heard of them?
> 
> Was thinking of just going "direct" through Hong Fu? Thoughts


I have been communicating with "Echo" from CarbonZone through eBay and all my questions have been answered completely, thoroughly, and fast. I am looking at buying their TT02 carbon time trial frameset and a set of 60mm carbon clinchers.. they also have decent prices on carbon TT bars. I don't know what company they represent, but the eBay feedback looks good, you can pay with paypal (which may cost a little more, but is well worth the protection), and they have even agreed to create a separate listing for the wheels when it comes time I want them (they are not listed on eBay... I think they consider 1 pair a "sample").


----------



## mcrent100

dmabraham said:


> Just ordered a size 56 matte black FM028-ISP from Tony at Great Keen. Frame, fork, headset, shipping, paypal fee came to 544. It is an English BB and he claims they are in stock and should ship within 5 days. Also the invoice had a lead time of 5 days on it as well.
> 
> I paid through paypal with a credit card, hoping that if something goes a miss, as in nothing ships, I will have two routes to pursue to make a claim. It does feel weird sending mondey and just hoping, but it seems like Great Keen has had a good series of experiences so far. I was just burned on a frame on ebay from 88bikefun, but did get all of my money and shipping refunded to my CC.
> 
> Got this one,



Your safe with Tony ... I paid for my FM015 on Thursday before 4th of July weekend and had it the following Friday.. Same lead time quoted to me due to the paint I suspect...


----------



## mcrent100

doggatas said:


> 1. Didnt need to
> 2. Didnt need to
> 3. I used the ones that came off my specialised S-works roubaix
> 4. I have 015, so no
> 5. As above


Just put the bike together and ride it.. You beeing 6-2 I would get at least a 120 stem maybe 130... you will have the pro look.. I have the FM 015 and it rips.. Was at crit practice tonight and loved the way the bike sprinted and cornered..


----------



## j4son

got a request to upload my build from the last thread. 

i purchased these two frames off of bicycle_999. i contacted him through ebay, but ended up sending him the payment through paypal to avoid the ebay charge.

the whole package included:

-4 carbon cages
-2 carbon stems
-1 carbon TT frame, seat post, seat clamp, derailleur hanger, carbon fork
-1 carbon road frame. (i think it was a kuota clone?) seat post, seat post clamp, derailleur hanger, carbon fork
-1 carbon handle bar
-2 carbon headsets
-12 5mm carbon spacers

payed around $1200? i would have to talk to my brother about the exact number, but it was around that mark.

they came about a week after sending the payment. box.









road bike out of the box









tt bike out of the box



























and the finished products (kinda)

road

















tri
















lol


----------



## IceUser

j4son said:


> got a request to upload my build from the last thread.
> 
> i purchased these two frames off of bicycle_999. i contacted him through ebay, but ended up sending him the payment through paypal to avoid the ebay charge.
> 
> the whole package included:
> 
> -4 carbon cages
> -2 carbon stems
> -1 carbon TT frame, seat post, seat clamp, derailleur hanger, carbon fork
> -1 carbon road frame. (i think it was a kuota clone?) seat post, seat post clamp, derailleur hanger, carbon fork
> -1 carbon handle bar
> -2 carbon headsets
> -12 5mm carbon spacers
> 
> payed around $1200? i would have to talk to my brother about the exact number, but it was around that mark.
> 
> they came about a week after sending the payment. box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> road bike out of the box
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tt bike out of the box
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and the finished products (kinda)
> 
> road
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tri
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol


Nice!! Now it's time for wheels


----------



## asad137

Hahah, the pedobear sticking up out of the seat tube! Terrible and awesome.

Hey I've got a question about your rear disc wheel cover: I've got a set of Neuvation wheels too and have been thinking of getting one. What did you specify when you ordered yours?

Asad


----------



## def_jukie

j4son,

Did you have any clearance issues with your RD on the TT frame? I have the same frame but with a 9spd Ultegra RD and it contacts the frame, keeping the RD from shifting to the smallest cog.


----------



## j4son

@IceUser: definitely! once i do a bit more research. I will post up pics when i upgrade

@asad137: yea i also had some concern about getting a disc cover for them, as they were not listed in the drop down box. i emailed them with a ton of questions about it, and they promptly responded with:

You can place your order directly through our website at:
http://www.wheelbuilder.com/store/aero-disc-covers.html
1. Select “Other, please specify” from the “Wheel type” drop down menu.
2. In the “Other wheel, specify type” text box, enter "R28X Aero”
3. In the “Other wheel, specify rim depth” text box, enter “27 mm”
4. Leave “PowerTap hub” as “None” (unless you have a PowerTap)
5. Leave “Wheel size” as 700c
6. Select your spoke count from the “Spoke count” drop down menu
7. Click the “Add to cart” button

definitely a good experience with the wheelbuilder crew. highly recommended!

@def_jukie: no issues on the road frame at this point.
As for the TT Just a few issues getting the front der. tuned (wouldn't shift under load). i had to take it in to my lbs a few times and they said due to the front der not having barrel adjusters it was a "more advanced" tuning job. I dont know if that was bs to have me pay more or what :mad2: but it worked fine after the third visit


----------



## def_jukie

Any issues with the rear derailleur on the TT frame?


----------



## j4son

nothing yet. but then again i havent taken it over 25 miles on a single ride yet. im actually about to head out right now for a 60 miler. i will keep you posted


----------



## asad137

j4son said:


> @asad137:
> definitely a good experience with the wheelbuilder crew. highly recommended!


Awesome. Looks like it fits quite well!

Asad


----------



## Safeway

I really wish they had more frames available in 58cm. The ultra thin seat stays on the 015 are amazing, and probably ride really well. Unfortunately, they are only offered in 55cm.

The 028 is offered in 58cm, and roughly fits into my Performance Fit guidelines.

Any other good looking frames in 58cm?


----------



## IRMB

Safeway said:


> I really wish they had more frames available in 58cm. The ultra thin seat stays on the 015 are amazing, and probably ride really well. Unfortunately, they are only offered in 55cm.
> 
> The 028 is offered in 58cm, and roughly fits into my Performance Fit guidelines.
> 
> Any other good looking frames in 58cm?


Ms Hu at Greatkeen is looking into this one for me in a size 61 http://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/cp_detail.php?id=96&nowmenuid=12&cpath=0009:&catid=0

Not BB 30, but otherwise looks good.


----------



## missinglink

That frame looks awesome, is the Ms. Hu Greatkeen the same as the Tony greatkeen??


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

missinglink said:


> That frame looks awesome, is the Ms. Hu Greatkeen the same as the Tony greatkeen??


Yeah, I'd like email address for Ms. Hu, since Mr. Tony too busy to answer emails


----------



## HeluvaSkier

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Yeah, I'd like email address for Ms. Hu, since Mr. Tony too busy to answer emails


It is the weekend there you know. They deserve some time off.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Well, I think i finally got Jenny (at HongFu) to understand what I want and placed this order (I'll show prices for those readers who are wondering):
> (1) FM001 Size 52 275USD
> > (1) FK022 30USD
> > (1)1 1/8" headset fit road frame 15USD
> > (1)CL001 gift
> > (1)FD009 12.5USD/pcs
> > (1)FD010 12.5USD/pcs
> > (1) extra rear derailleur hanger gift (can send one more as a gift)
> > PAINT FRAME AND FORK ONE COLOR--RED 40USD
> > total shipping cost is 70USD
> > (1) extra unpainted FK022 (any carbon finish OK) 30USD
> > Total cost = US$485
> 
> I will be absolutely AMAZED if the ordershows up with no mistakes--trying to communicate across the language barrier is unbelievably frustrating.:mad2:
> 
> Most of you will not have problems, as you will just be ordering a standard item such as they deal with all the time.
> 
> My problem is that I wanted something DIFFERENT (carbon fork with alloy steerer) and that just blew their minds away.
> 
> I need the alloy steerer because my bars are going to be higher than you young studs and I don't trust carbon steerer with a bunch of spacers.
> 
> I'll post results when my "mystery package" arrives. Fingers crossed.


Two things: 

1) Jenny will get your order correct. She always sends lists like that, and they are always spot on when they ship (I've ordered four frames from her). I'd be really surprised if she didn't send you what you wanted as long as you have made it clear what you're ordering. 

2) Why didn't you order a frame that had a taller head tube so you don't have to run a huge spacer stack height? There are a few frames available (not sure of hong-fu has them) that have massive head tubes for the size of the frame.


----------



## IRMB

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Yeah, I'd like email address for Ms. Hu, since Mr. Tony too busy to answer emails


here's the email I have been using to correspond with Ms Hu. [email protected] . 

Has anyone ever tried calling them? Wonder if that would be any more successfull than email...


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

IRMB said:


> here's the email I have been using to correspond with Ms Hu. [email protected] .
> 
> Has anyone ever tried calling them? Wonder if that would be any more successfull than email...


Thanks


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

HeluvaSkier said:


> Two things:
> 
> 1) Jenny will get your order correct. She always sends lists like that, and they are always spot on when they ship (I've ordered four frames from her). I'd be really surprised if she didn't send you what you wanted as long as you have made it clear what you're ordering.
> 
> 2) Why didn't you order a frame that had a taller head tube so you don't have to run a huge spacer stack height? There are a few frames available (not sure of hong-fu has them) that have massive head tubes for the size of the frame.


1) Music to my ears,

2) Well, I had to start with the alloy-steerer fork. She had only one such model. So then I asked what frames it fit/was suited for. She said 001. I asked twice if there were other frames suitable for that fork, but she never came up with any. I got so tired of :mad2: that I went with the ones she said would work. 

I'd like to see massive head tube--can you link to photo? I don't know enough about this to be able to determine if a given fork is compatible with a given frame . . . how does one know except from the vendor????


----------



## jborg28

*Quality*

While I agree that many of these bikes look good, can someone point me to posts that discuss quality of construction, durability, how it rides compared to other frames etc. Thanks.


----------



## missinglink

jborg28 said:


> While I agree that many of these bikes look good, can someone point me to posts that discuss quality of construction, durability, how it rides compared to other frames etc. Thanks.


Go read through the original thread for that information, it's about 45pages long.

Mike


----------



## IRMB

jborg28 said:


> While I agree that many of these bikes look good, can someone point me to posts that discuss quality of construction, durability, how it rides compared to other frames etc. Thanks.


It's been discussed at length. In a nutshell - quality is very good. Some people have a few minor problems (generally superficial) that either they work out themselves, or get taken care of by the vendors.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

Yeah, seriously, I slogged through all 45 pages this week--everybody is happy except for the 2 I mention in my post of email to Jenny a couple of days ago.

I am a real skeptic, but I went for it. I really think what I'm getting is equivalent to "name brand" stuff costing big bucks.


----------



## gs15step

I ordered an MC015 (FM015 similar) frameset, headset, cages etc from Jack at Miracle Trade (see link) on the 8/7/10 and was quoted 7-12 days for delivery to the UK. That's 9 days ago now and the tracking details have shown zero action for 8 days, saying that the item has left China, but there are no further details.

I have been in daily contact with Jack @ Miracle Trade and he's been very responsive, but having never dealt with Miracle Trade before and the item almost dropping off the radar so to speak, I'm naturally starting to fret.

Has anyone else dealt with Miracle Trade before, or had this problem with other suppliers?

Cheers!



http://miracletrade.en.alibaba.com/product/253230179-209302532/New_racing_frame.html


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

HeluvaSkier said:


> It is the weekend there you know. They deserve some time off.


People in retail frequently work the weekend and take equivalent time off during the week. Weekend is their busiest time. In any case the three Chinese I've been talking to are all working today.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

gs15step said:


> I ordered an MC015 (FM015 similar) frameset, headset, cages etc from Jack at Miracle Trade (see link) on the 8/7/10 and was quoted 7-12 days for delivery to the UK. That's 9 days ago now and the tracking details have shown zero action for 8 days, saying that the item has left China, but there are no further details.
> 
> I have been in daily contact with Jack @ Miracle Trade and he's been very responsive, but having never dealt with Miracle Trade before and the item almost dropping off the radar so to speak, I'm naturally starting to fret.
> 
> Has anyone else dealt with Miracle Trade before, or had this problem with other suppliers?
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> http://miracletrade.en.alibaba.com/product/253230179-209302532/New_racing_frame.html



I think about 95% or more parcels arrive unscathed so the odds are that you are fretting needlessly.

I ordered from the company that had a lot of people saying they made successful orders. You ordered from Miracle Trade who I haven't heard of. I assume you got super good deal. Please post what you got and how much was cost. Thanks.


----------



## gs15step

ClarkinHawaii said:


> I think about 95% or more parcels arrive unscathed so the odds are that you are fretting needlessly.
> 
> I ordered from the company that had a lot of people saying they made successful orders. You ordered from Miracle Trade who I haven't heard of. I assume you got super good deal. Please post what you got and how much was cost. Thanks.


You're right, I'm just getting angsty and impatient I guess!

I've seen people have completed successful orders through Miracle Trade for carbon wheels etc, but not framesets.

Anyway, I purchased the frame, forks, 2 cages, 2 derailleur hangers, a headset and postage to the UK (+5% Paypal fee) for $532 

It will be 12 days on Monday. Fingers crossed for some results.


----------



## slabber

Many times, the tracking won't update until it reaches or goes through Customs and you'll see it update when they try to deliver.

The tracking is not the same as what we see with UPS or FedEx. 

Just be patient .


----------



## gs15step

I know Slabber, I know, I think I just need a little lay down!

I hate international trades for this very reason. Having used Paypal, I know the protection is there, but after all is said and done, I just want the damn frame!!!


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

Hongfu offers frames in choice of 3k, 12k or UniDirectional carbon. I was under the impression that this only refers to the surface layer, and the only difference is cosmetic.

I just read on bikeradar forum where a poster says that 3k is dated, weaker carbon and you should get frame made with 12k because it's stronger/stiffer. Nobody disputed him.

Sooooo . . . which is it?

edit: just looked up "monocoque" construction, which is what all these frames are. Definition is that stresses are handled primarily by the surface layer rather than an internal member, so in this case the surface, cosmetic layer is also what's bearing the stresses So strength/stiffness differences between 3k and 12k would be important..


----------



## thesmokingman

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Hongfu offers frames in choice of 3k, 12k or UniDirectional carbon. I was under the impression that this only refers to the surface layer, and the only difference is cosmetic.
> 
> I just read on bikeradar forum where a poster says that 3k is dated, weaker carbon and you should get frame made with 12k because it's stronger/stiffer. Nobody disputed him.
> 
> Sooooo . . . which is it?


12k is stronger not because its newer carbon. It's because there's more carbon to carbon in the weave. With 3k you have lots of air sandwiched inside the weave. This reduces the potential strength. You also have to balance "it" within the shape of the mold. With intricate areas it gets difficult laying 12k into it and still keeping things nice and smooth.


----------



## redmr2_man

i believe those are just the finish layers on the hongfu bikes.


----------



## thesmokingman

redmr2_man said:


> i believe those are just the finish layers on the hongfu bikes.


That sort of makes me cringe... because the last layer, which "technically" is the first layer in the mold, is the most important layer because it is subject to the most rotational forces. The layers deep inside the structure are the least stressed layers. 

Now, you could just decide to add a layer to your design for looks, but in the balance of the design you want to avoid adding unnecessary material. This seems to be typical for chinese made and chinese designed carbon. Typical as in they describe it to be a "finishing" layer so who knows, I don't... I'm just wondering aloud more or less... besides the thought that you don't really know whats inside those layers. Is it really all carbon, let alone hm carbon or some glass? There is reassurance knowing that if too much glass was used the weight would skyrocket.


----------



## slabber

The chinese frame finishes are cosmetic - pick the one that looks the best for you. 

I went with 3K b/c I don't like the look of 12K - old skool carbon was always a 3k weave and that's what I'm used to.


----------



## tabmaster

thesmokingman said:


> That sort of makes me cringe... because the last layer, which "technically" is the first layer in the mold, is the most important layer because it is subject to the most rotational forces. The layers deep inside the structure are the least stressed layers.
> 
> Now, you could just decide to add a layer to your design for looks, but in the balance of the design you want to avoid adding unnecessary material. This seems to be typical for chinese made and chinese designed carbon. Typical as in they describe it to be a "finishing" layer so who knows, I don't... I'm just wondering aloud more or less... besides the thought that you don't really know whats inside those layers. Is it really all carbon, let alone hm carbon or some glass? There is reassurance knowing that if too much glass was used the weight would skyrocket.


AFAIK the 3k carbon is more expensive & in greater demand from the aerospace industry than the 12k stuff. I agree that the layers beneath are going to be the most important ones in terms of structural properties than the 'cosmetic' top layer regardless of its weave. Now the direction of the lay up IS important.
It begs the question, if the 3k weave is mostly used by the aerospace industry, isnt it likely to be better than the 12k weave?
Naturally the modulus of the carbon used will be important too and I hope that it doesnt turn out that it is mostly glass underneath the cosmetic layer!

Paul.


----------



## thesmokingman

tabmaster said:


> It begs the question, if the 3k weave is mostly used by the aerospace industry, isnt it likely to be better than the 12k weave?


12K weave is stronger for the basic fact that there is less air in the between the fibers. 3K weaves have a lot more air in between the fibers (**think inside the criss-cross weave). Everytime a fiber goes up and over another fiber, there is an air pocket. Air is not very strong...

Afaik, 6K - 8K is ideal in racing and probably aerospace since it is strong enough, low air content and not hard to work with like 12K.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

I think this is pretty interesting--$550 shipped for carbon frame/fork set from reputable retailer. Only sizes 49 & 52, though.

I take a 52. If I had seen this a couple of days ago, I would have chosen it over Hongfu:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=33660

Besides just being a nice guy, I figure that a few of you guys are going to jump on this and they'll sell out quickly--I hope--because I am really tempted to get one in addition to the Hongfu.


----------



## thesmokingman

Have you looked at the carbon frames from Price Point? There's a 500 one with fork, 1250g too. Why go across the pond when you don't have to?

http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/19145-180_SETSS9-278-Frames--/Sette-Sasso-Carbon-Road-Frameset.htm

And then there's the Motobecane Immortal frame for 5 bills also shipped.

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/immortalspirit_frameonly.htm


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

Shipping to HI is free from CRC--a huge rip-off from the others,

The lovely people at BD demand $150. How much does it cost to mail a frame? Oh, wait --it's being shipped signature required for *MY* protection--haha.

And the winner is . . . $200 to ship a 3-4 pound frame within the area served by the US Postal Service. Price Point wins!

Actually I'm exagerrating--it's really only $199.99. UGH


----------



## Italianrider76

thesmokingman said:


> 12K weave is stronger for the basic fact that there is less air in the between the fibers. 3K weaves have a lot more air in between the fibers (**think inside the criss-cross weave). Everytime a fiber goes up and over another fiber, there is an air pocket. Air is not very strong...
> 
> Afaik, 6K - 8K is ideal in racing and probably aerospace since it is strong enough, low air content and not hard to work with like 12K.


Not really. As others have stated, the external weave is purely cosmetic and has no bearing on the performance characteristics of a frame. If anything, 12K is probably a little more economical to produce hence why it is a lot more common on entry level carbon frames than it is on high end frames.


----------



## luca.grigo

Italianrider76 said:


> Not really. As others have stated, the external weave is purely cosmetic and has no bearing on the performance characteristics of a frame. If anything, 12K is probably a little more economical to produce hence why it is a lot more common on entry level carbon frames than it is on high end frames.


True:thumbsup:


----------



## thesmokingman

Italianrider76 said:


> Not really. As others have stated, the external weave is purely cosmetic and has no bearing on the performance characteristics of a frame. If anything, 12K is probably a little more economical to produce hence why it is a lot more common on entry level carbon frames than it is on high end frames.


Clarkin asked what the difference between 3K and 12K etc. The difference is the weave and the amount of air sandwiched between the weave. How much it costs to produce in a bike, or the cost difference between the weaves is speculative w/o know the material cost wouldn't you say?

Again, ideally you shouldn't be slapping on a cosmetic weave since the outside weave layer is the one that takes the most stress, torsional, etc. The chinese do this, but that doesn't make it right. And it hides what is really underneath...


----------



## MTBMaven

thesmokingman said:


> Have you looked at the carbon frames from Price Point? There's a 500 one with fork, 1250g too. Why go across the pond when you don't have to?


Do you honestly think that Price Point makes these from on this side of the pond?

I've been to the Price Point office and I can tell you there is no bike manufacturing going on there. They are buying the frames from China just like everyone else.


----------



## thesmokingman

MTBMaven said:


> Do you honestly think that Price Point makes these from on this side of the pond?
> 
> I've been to the Price Point office and I can tell you there is no bike manufacturing going on there. They are buying the frames from China just like everyone else.


Hey I never said they make their own stuff. It's kinda obvious too that they are chinese frames. It just saves us the chance of getting ripped off and there's a brick and mortor place to get some warranty help if something goes wrong.


----------



## Italianrider76

thesmokingman said:


> Again, ideally you shouldn't be slapping on a cosmetic weave since the outside weave layer is the one that takes the most stress, torsional, etc. The chinese do this, but that doesn't make it right. And it hides what is really underneath...


There are dozens of frames from the major manufacturers that have either a 3K weave or a 12K weave. It's not just these Chinese manufacturers using it.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

MTBMaven said:


> Do you honestly think that Price Point makes these from on this side of the pond?
> 
> I've been to the Price Point office and I can tell you there is no bike manufacturing going on there. They are buying the frames from China just like everyone else.


I thought he was referring to the bike I quoted, which was from chainreactioncycles in the UK, across the Atlantic "pond".


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

Because Jenny at HongFu did not have frame and fork available in matching weave, I got paint job--$40. 

Does anybody know what kind of paint job it's gonna be?
primer + paint + clearcoat
primer + paint
Just one layer paint only
?????? I'm trying to figure out how to treat it and protect it. I hate to ask Jenny since communication is so tortured!

Hi, Jenny, I want to ask you about paint job.

Oh, now you no want paint, OK? I change order quick!

No, I still want paint. I want to know about what kind of paint it's going to be.

Why you change mind on paint?

I haven't changed mind. What kind of paint?

You say Red paint!

Is it clear-coated?

Is not clear, Is red I tell you before--please note!

Yes, but is the red covered with anything else?

If cover, why paint? No see paint!

Hmmm (thinking) How many coats paint?

Red paint, i tell you before--please note!

Yes, but WHAT KIND of red paint?

2 bottle cage already in order!

Jenny--please--what kind of red paint job you do?

Is good job! Is QuietzdmaDongchu quality paint--is red! 

OK Jenny, nice talking to you.


----------



## WheresWaldo

That was funny, and pretty much describes any conversation with Jenny.


----------



## justind01

I can't open the older thread (or search for individual posts), so forgive me if this information is available there.

My question: What would be the closest equivalent Aero frame to the Kestrel Talon Road (http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/kestrel/talon_road_force.htm )? I want an aero bike with a mast seat, so I thought this might be a good way to hone my wrenching skills (and save some money).

Thanks!


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

Pretty stupid question if you ask me...

What do you think if you see the pictures of all the paintings they have.


----------



## WheresWaldo

justind01 said:


> I can't open the older thread (or search for individual posts), so forgive me if this information is available there....


As mentioned many times go to the top of this thread and click on *Display Mode* then change it to *Linear Mode*. Any thread that reaches 1000+ posts can only be viewed in Linear mode. All your thread views will now be linear.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

justind01 said:


> I can't open the older thread (or search for individual posts), so forgive me if this information is available there.
> 
> My question: What would be the closest equivalent Aero frame to the Kestrel Talon Road (http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/kestrel/talon_road_force.htm )? I want an aero bike with a mast seat, so I thought this might be a good way to hone my wrenching skills (and save some money).
> 
> Thanks!



Actually, the way this works, you pretty much have to wing it. Look at the crappy photos on the vendors' websites (or some good photos in these threads) find the one that looks the best to you then contact that vendor and ask them to send you frame geometry jpg. Then compare that against your ideal.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

WheresWaldo said:


> That was funny, and pretty much describes any conversation with Jenny.


 But don't get me wrong--Jenny's a sweetheart! I would buy again based on my experience so far (which admittedly isn't much).


----------



## gs15step

Well my tracking details just updated to show that my frame has arrived in customs here in the UK. I'll report back with details as and when I know more.

Jack @ MiracleTrade has been mega helpful so far, so fingers crossed the product matches the service.


----------



## SBH1973

*Factory Girls: From Village to China in a Changing China*



ClarkinHawaii said:


> But don't get me wrong--Jenny's a sweetheart! I would buy again based on my experience so far (which admittedly isn't much).


I've also corresponded with Jenny, and she is great. Since everyone here is so interested in buying direct from Chinese factories, perhaps you might be interested in getting a sense of the new factory/worker culture that has emerged in China over the past two decades. If so, I highly recommend Leslie Chang's excellent book "Factory Girls: From Village to City in a Changing China," which has been very well received. It's one of the best books I've read on the "new China". It focuses on the lives of migrant female workers who leave the countryside to work in factories, and the variety of challenges and opportunities they face. I was reading it while corresponding with Jenny, and I thought, "She could be one of the young women in Chang's book".

Anyway, here's the Amazon link:

http://www.amazon.com/Factory-Girls-Village-Changing-China/dp/0385520174


----------



## texbike

*2010 Scattante CFR frameset*

Does anyone know which (if any) of the chinese framesets the new Scattante CFR framesets match up to?

This one just sold on ebay and it looks sharp. The item # is 330450014820. I'd love to have one that wasn't Scattante branded.

Thanks!

Texbike


----------



## thesmokingman

That's a really beefy bottom half, it gives a very stout impression. It looks like a very current design.


----------



## doggatas

Safeway said:


> I really wish they had more frames available in 58cm. The ultra thin seat stays on the 015 are amazing, and probably ride really well. Unfortunately, they are only offered in 55cm.
> 
> The 028 is offered in 58cm, and roughly fits into my Performance Fit guidelines.
> 
> Any other good looking frames in 58cm?



Are you sure about that? I have a 58cm Fm015


----------



## RC28

texbike said:


> Does anyone know which (if any) of the chinese framesets the new Scattante CFR framesets match up to?
> 
> This one just sold on ebay and it looks sharp. The item # is 330450014820. I'd love to have one that wasn't Scattante branded.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Texbike


If at least they would have gotten that seat tube "PRO" decal placed with the right orientation...


----------



## fab4

The Scattante carbon frames are made by Fuji for Performance Bicycle. Topkey of China manufacturers Fuji's carbon frames. 

http://allanti.com/articles/where-was-my-bike-made-pg328.htm


----------



## slabber

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Because Jenny at HongFu did not have frame and fork available in matching weave, I got paint job--$40.
> 
> Does anybody know what kind of paint job it's gonna be?
> primer + paint + clearcoat
> primer + paint
> Just one layer paint only
> ?????? I'm trying to figure out how to treat it and protect it. I hate to ask Jenny since communication is so tortured!
> 
> Hi, Jenny, I want to ask you about paint job.
> 
> Oh, now you no want paint, OK? I change order quick!
> 
> No, I still want paint. I want to know about what kind of paint it's going to be.
> 
> Why you change mind on paint?
> 
> I haven't changed mind. What kind of paint?
> 
> You say Red paint!
> 
> Is it clear-coated?
> 
> Is not clear, Is red I tell you before--please note!
> 
> Yes, but is the red covered with anything else?
> 
> If cover, why paint? No see paint!
> 
> Hmmm (thinking) How many coats paint?
> 
> Red paint, i tell you before--please note!
> 
> Yes, but WHAT KIND of red paint?
> 
> 2 bottle cage already in order!
> 
> Jenny--please--what kind of red paint job you do?
> 
> Is good job! Is QuietzdmaDongchu quality paint--is red!
> 
> OK Jenny, nice talking to you.


Based on a conversation I had with a FM015 painted frame owner, I would request a clearcoat over the paint. 

He said his paint job chipped pretty easily... 

Now, you're looking at multiple coats and possibly some extra weight. Not sure how much weight the paint adds but the clearcoat over the paintjob may be worth it.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

slabber said:


> Based on a conversation I had with a FM015 painted frame owner, I would request a clearcoat over the paint.
> 
> He said his paint job chipped pretty easily...
> 
> Now, you're looking at multiple coats and possibly some extra weight. Not sure how much weight the paint adds but the clearcoat over the paintjob may be worth it.


This is good to know, thanks. 
Any idea what they plan on doing as the basic paint job for $40? Think clearcoat might already be included? If not, how much extra would you guess it would cost?


----------



## redmr2_man

did the regular hongfu website get completely replaced by the ehongfu website? They used to co-exist. The regular hongfu website included pictures with all the geo, seems that the ehongfu site doesn't have these up.

?


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

redmr2_man said:


> did the regular hongfu website get completely replaced by the ehongfu website? They used to co-exist. The regular hongfu website included pictures with all the geo, seems that the ehongfu site doesn't have these up.
> 
> ?


Here it is, still up:

http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/


----------



## aikendrum

*FM-015 Build Completed*

It's taken me a while to get all the bits and pieces but my build is now finished minus the pedals.

The majority of the build was completed over 4 weeks ago and I recieved the last critical conponent - wheels just last week. 

I've been riding the bike with an old set of Mavic Askiums (Decals Removed) but the difference with the new SRAM 27AL wheels is huge.:thumbsup: 

Hongfu FM-0015 Frame, Fork and Handlebars
SRAM Force Groupset
Ritchie Carbon Pro Stem, Seat & Seat Post
SRAM 27AL Wheelset
Continental Grand Prix SuperSonic Road Tyre 700x23

Total Weight is 7.6Kg without pedals.


----------



## texbike

fab4 said:


> The Scattante carbon frames are made by Fuji for Performance Bicycle. Topkey of China manufacturers Fuji's carbon frames.
> 
> http://allanti.com/articles/where-was-my-bike-made-pg328.htm


Hmmm. This article is from 2008 and references documents from 2006. Is the info still valid? Does the Scattante CFR align with any specific Fuji model? The 2010 CFR doesn't look like anything in Fuji's current line-up...

Texbike


----------



## redmr2_man

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Here it is, still up:
> 
> http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/


refuses to open.

must be a browser thing. thanks..


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

redmr2_man said:


> refuses to open.
> 
> must be a browser thing. thanks..


temp glitch--was working when I posted earlier--but won't open for me now. try later.


----------



## Dutch77

Works for me right now. This type of thing is usually not browser dependent. 

A cool tool to check if it's just you or a problem for everybody else is:
http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/


----------



## yellowjeep

WheresWaldo said:


> I am also waiting for a frame from Henry at Archteks, except it is BB30, UD unfinished along with fork, bars and a couple of bottle cages. It is good to see one actually delivered. I have till the end of this week before the initial ship date, if I don't hear from Henry on Friday I will send an email to see where we are. Mine will be closer to 25 days.


Very interested to see how your bike turns out. What you described is exactly what I am looking for, BB30 UD unfinished ect. Can you tell me about your ordering process? I didn't see where fininsh or BB options were listed on their site.


----------



## Guymk

I am very interested in purchasing an FM0015 frame (without isp), it seems to be an awesome frame at a great price. I am a little confused though, does it come only in BB30 or is it also available in 68mm? Hongfu‘s website is not very clear on this. I plan on doing a frame swap and as I already have a 68mm english I do not want to have to buy a new crank .


----------



## slabber

Guymk said:


> I am very interested in purchasing an FM0015 frame (without isp), it seems to be an awesome frame at a great price. I am a little confused though, does it come only in BB30 or is it also available in 68mm? Hongfu‘s website is not very clear on this. I plan on doing a frame swap and as I already have a 68mm english I do not want to have to buy a new crank .


Available both ways.


----------



## slabber

ClarkinHawaii said:


> This is good to know, thanks.
> Any idea what they plan on doing as the basic paint job for $40? Think clearcoat might already be included? If not, how much extra would you guess it would cost?


I would surmise that the $40 paint job is single color, no clear coat based on the 'chips easily' comment. Extra clear coat could cost as much as an additional $40 but I wouldn't think it should be that much.


----------



## karlch

texbike said:


> Does anyone know which (if any) of the chinese framesets the new Scattante CFR framesets match up to?
> 
> This one just sold on ebay and it looks sharp. The item # is 330450014820. I'd love to have one that wasn't Scattante branded.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Texbike


i would love to get hold of one of these frames where can you get them from?


----------



## mymilkexpired

My Hongfu build










Full Rival Group
Control Tech Bars,Seatpost and collar.


----------



## jborg28

I would like to understand why so many of these sellers have the same frame designs? I have also found that some manufacturers list theirs as having exclusivity in i.e. USA., but you can still get the same frame through someone else?


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

RESOLUTION OF CLEARCOAT QUESTION FROM HONGFU

email I send:
Hi, Jenny--

Please, I have question on paint job in my order.

For my $40 paint job I pay for, is the red paint covered with "Clear coat"? (clear coat is hard, clear paint which is sprayed on over the red paint to protect red paint from chip and fade). Almost all cars and bicycles have this.

Here is information:
http://www.meguiars.com/faq/index.cfm?faqCat=paint questions&faqQuestionID=39&section=_39#_39

Friends tell me paint with no clear coat not good.

Thanks, regards, Clark Cooper

Response from jenny:
hi,Clark
thanks for your email!
you do not worry,after painted the red,must be painted one clear coat paint to protective.
I think all the factory are do like this.
thanks!

Jenny


----------



## scblur

Guys 
This is my first post... (sorry) 
Last Thursday I ordered my frame from Jenny after reading good things on this thread. (Loads of things have changed on bikes since my last road bike, 1989 Vitus 979, so almost nothing will transfer to the new bike). 
I received an email last night with my tracking number. Its already at JFK apparently. I hope to see it soon. 
Its going to be months before I can finish building, I was not expecting to need a new bike and blew my stash on this. (broke my frame)
Next I am hunting for a good deal on a wheelset.
Has anyone bought any of the wheels she sells?


----------



## IRMB

aikendrum said:


> It's taken me a while to get all the bits and pieces but my build is now finished minus the pedals.
> 
> The majority of the build was completed over 4 weeks ago and I recieved the last critical conponent - wheels just last week.
> 
> I've been riding the bike with an old set of Mavic Askiums (Decals Removed) but the difference with the new SRAM 27AL wheels is huge.:thumbsup:
> 
> Hongfu FM-0015 Frame, Fork and Handlebars
> SRAM Force Groupset
> Ritchie Carbon Pro Stem, Seat & Seat Post
> SRAM 27AL Wheelset
> Continental Grand Prix SuperSonic Road Tyre 700x23
> 
> Total Weight is 7.6Kg without pedals.


Looks terrific! how tall are you and what is the effective top tube on your bike? I have read the specs - but am wondering if real world measurements differ.

I am looking for a bike with a 590'ish millimeter top tube.

THanks


----------



## sokudo

texbike said:


> Hmmm. This article is from 2008 and references documents from 2006. Is the info still valid? Does the Scattante CFR align with any specific Fuji model? The 2010 CFR doesn't look like anything in Fuji's current line-up...
> 
> Texbike


Previous iteration of Scattante CFR was made by ADK. I did not notice new Scattante CFR frame in the ADK catalog but check it out for yourself.


----------



## WheresWaldo

yellowjeep said:


> Very interested to see how your bike turns out. What you described is exactly what I am looking for, BB30 UD unfinished ect. Can you tell me about your ordering process? I didn't see where fininsh or BB options were listed on their site.


*Yellowjeep*, all the options are listed within the description, everything is done through email.

http://archteks.en.alibaba.com/product/295670247-200709482/Carbon_Frames_Road_TR_FM031CF_TR_FK018CF_.html


Carbon Frames Road
Including Frame and Fork (TR-FM031CF+TR-FK018CF)
Monocoque Carbon Road Frameset
Fit for 31.6mm Seat Post
W/3K,12K or UD Woven
Weight:1000g
Finish: Clear Coating
Sizes:49cm,51cm,53cm,55cm,58cm
BB:Bb30 or 1.37"*25
Headset Size: Top 1-1/8"; Down 1-1/2"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Monocoque Full Carbon 700C Racing Fork
Crown:Integrated
Blades:Carbon W/3K,12K,UD Woven
Finish: Clear Coating Offset:45
Steerer:1-1/8",Length 300mm
Weight:395g
2 years warranty
​ So in your email you need to specify UD, BB30, Unfinished and Henry will reply with pricing and availability. I also ordered the handlebars and cages since I did not want to buy another Zipp SLC2 handlebars. I also made sure that I kept all the emails in one single thread so that there would be no misunderstanding later on. First email was request for quote and availability, second email to confirm what I wanted and to clarify pricing if using PayPal. Third email was to place an order. Fourth email was to notify that payment was sent, which was probably unnecessary as Henry responded that payment was received. Fifth email was to check status, this was sent three weeks after order. I was told shipping would be the end of July, so if I don't hear from Henry on or before July 31 I will send a sixth email that asks for a status update.

All in all pretty easy and all my questions were answered within the first two emails. Each response took between a couple of hours to about 18 hours depending on the time of day in China.


----------



## MTBMaven

aikendrum said:


>


Very nice build. That is my favorite frame of all the ones I've seen in this and last years thread.


----------



## aikendrum

Thanks for you comments. Being 5'11" I fall between two sizes - I opted for the larger frame 58cm FM-15 which has an effective top tube of 568mm - I also opted for a 110mm stem and although I've got used to it - I probably need to get a shorter stem.
The bike has turned out better than expected and going from an Aluminium frame bike weighing in at 13kg to this the performance difference is huge.
For a while I was using my old 'heavy' mavic askiums (decals removed) which looked acceptable but the SRAM 27AL 1620g with light tyres 150g are the ticket - they pick up the groupset and complement the whole bike.
I was toying with the idea of making up my own decals but have since decided the stealth naked black matte finish keeps the show pony set guessing! 



IRMB said:


> Looks terrific! how tall are you and what is the effective top tube on your bike? I have read the specs - but am wondering if real world measurements differ.
> 
> I am looking for a bike with a 590'ish millimeter top tube.
> 
> THanks


----------



## mrwirey

Hello,
I have been watching this forum for quite some time and I debated long and hard before deciding to use a Chinese frame for my latest build. There are a lot of pros and cons to purchasing a Chinese frame, but in the end I decided to go ahead and give it a go. I decided to purchase an FM 015 not because it was inexpensive, but becuase I liked the look of the frame. I build all my own bikes (currently own 23) so assembly was not an issue. I decided to go the path least traveled and build the bike with Campagnolo Chorus 11 Speed. I think it turned out pretty well. The weight came in at 15lbs, 9 ounces with a reasonable build; not light, but not heavy either. My experience:
Purchasing: I ordered the bike (FM 015 frame and matching fork in UD finish) about 2 months ago through Jenny and I was told it would take 70 days. After 50 days Jenny e-mailed me to tell me that the bike was finished; however, it had a BB30 instead of the BSA that I ordered. She told me I could accept the BB30 or wait another 70 days. I accepted the frame, but I had to order new BB cups, which cost an additional $50 8( .
Frame: UD finish is very cool and clear coat is very good. Not necessarily better than 3k or 12k; just different. Frame was packed extremely well.
Build:
-Frame, Fork, and Headset in UD finish: $430 plus $70 shipping and $26 PayPal tax. 
-Group: Campagnolo Chorus 11 Speed (172.5 with 34/50; 11-25 cassette) ($1,150 off eBay).
-Wheels: Mavic Ksyrium ES SL ($850 from LBS).
-Tires: Continental 4000 ($100 from LBS).
-Tubes: Yes please ($10 from LBS).
-Skewers: KCNC anodized red ($50 from eBay).
-Seat Clamp: KCNC anodized red (34.9) ($20 from eBay).
-Front Derailleur Clamp: Campagnolo (34.9) ($8 from eBay).
-Seatpost: Hongfu Bontrager Clone (31.6) ($35 from Hongfu).
-Saddle: Specialized Toupe (135mm) ($170 from LBS).
-Pedals: Look Keo Blade (12nm) ($280 from Wiggle).
-Brake Cables: Nokon alternating black/red ($70 from LBS).
-Handlebar: Ritchey WCS Aluminum (31.8 x 42cm) ($65 off eBay).
-Stem: Ritchey WCS Aluminum (110mm) ($50 off eBay).
-Bottle Cages: Profile Carbon x 2 ($75 from LBS).
-Headset Spacers: KCNC red/black anodized ($20 off eBay).
-Headset Top Cap: Token red anodized ($10 off eBay).
-Bar Tape: Fizik two color black/red ($21 from LBS).
Ride: I have not ridden it yet. I will follow up with a ride review later.
Take Care and feel free to ask questions.
Very respectfully, Tim


----------



## scblur

Tim
It looks fantastic. I would have rode it as soon as I was done though, even if it was 2am!!!  (I just ordered the same frame from Jenny.
Congrats for the great job on the bike. Good luck with it.
I wish you had a better camera, but good looking bike.

Scott





mrwirey said:


> Hello,
> I have been watching this forum for quite some time and I debated long and hard before deciding to use a Chinese frame for my latest build. There are a lot of pros and cons to purchasing a Chinese frame, but in the end I decided to go ahead and give it a go. I decided to purchase an FM 015 not because it was inexpensive, but becuase I liked the look of the frame. I build all my own bikes (currently own 23) so assembly was not an issue. I decided to go the path least traveled and build the bike with Campagnolo Chorus 11 Speed. I think it turned out pretty well. The weight came in at 15lbs, 9 ounces with a reasonable build; not light, but not heavy either. My experience:
> Purchasing: I ordered the bike (FM 015 frame and matching fork in UD finish) about 2 months ago through Jenny and I was told it would take 70 days. After 50 days Jenny e-mailed me to tell me that the bike was finished; however, it had a BB30 instead of the BSA that I ordered. She told me I could accept the BB30 or wait another 70 days. I accepted the frame, but I had to order new BB cups, which cost an additional $50 8( .
> Frame: UD finish is very cool and clear coat is very good. Not necessarily better than 3k or 12k; just different. Frame was packed extremely well.
> Build:
> -Frame, Fork, and Headset in UD finish: $430 plus $70 shipping and $26 PayPal tax.
> -Group: Campagnolo Chorus 11 Speed (172.5 with 34/50; 11-25 cassette) ($1,150 off eBay).
> -Wheels: Mavic Ksyrium ES SL ($850 from LBS).
> -Tires: Continental 4000 ($100 from LBS).
> -Tubes: Yes please ($10 from LBS).
> -Skewers: KCNC anodized red ($50 from eBay).
> -Seat Clamp: KCNC anodized red (34.9) ($20 from eBay).
> -Front Derailleur Clamp: Campagnolo (34.9) ($8 from eBay).
> -Seatpost: Hongfu Bontrager Clone (31.6) ($35 from Hongfu).
> -Saddle: Specialized Toupe (135mm) ($170 from LBS).
> -Pedals: Look Keo Blade (12nm) ($280 from Wiggle).
> -Brake Cables: Nokon alternating black/red ($70 from LBS).
> -Handlebar: Ritchey WCS Aluminum (31.8 x 42cm) ($65 off eBay).
> -Stem: Ritchey WCS Aluminum (110mm) ($50 off eBay).
> -Bottle Cages: Profile Carbon x 2 ($75 from LBS).
> -Headset Spacers: KCNC red/black anodized ($20 off eBay).
> -Headset Top Cap: Token red anodized ($10 off eBay).
> -Bar Tape: Fizik two color black/red ($21 from LBS).
> Ride: I have not ridden it yet. I will follow up with a ride review later.
> Take Care and feel free to ask questions.
> Very respectfully, Tim


----------



## mrwirey

*Anybody know of a good Chinese camera?*

Just kidding. I took the pictures with my iPhone4 because I wanted to give it a go. I probably should have went with the Kodak...
Tim


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

aikendrum said:


> keeps *the show pony set* guessing!


Good one--haha


----------



## nickl75

*Carbon frame website*

Hi,

After getting frustrated trying to work out what frame I wanted, I decided to start a website cataloging all the options.

One thing I'd like to put up is geometry & sizing charts for all the frames out there. I know the FM015 geometry charts are up on the other carbon frame thread (I'll put them up once I find them), but if anyone has charts for other frames I'd love a copy.

The website is http://cheapcarbonframes.com/ if anyone wants to give me some feedback.


----------



## fab4

*Cervelo R3 SL From Yiwu Great Electric Hong*

This company is quoting me a 2010 54cm Cervelo R3 SL complete bike with SRAM Red and Zipp 303 wheels for $2500 or just the frameset for $1400. To good to be true eh? When I ask them what forms of payment will they take they said they only take bank transfer. I insist on Paypal but they said no. I've bought carbon frames from both HongFu & GreatKeen using paypal with no problems. Is this company legit. I found it on alibaba.com.


----------



## redmr2_man

nickl75 said:


> Hi,
> 
> After getting frustrated trying to work out what frame I wanted, I decided to start a website cataloging all the options.
> 
> One thing I'd like to put up is geometry & sizing charts for all the frames out there. I know the FM015 geometry charts are up on the other carbon frame thread (I'll put them up once I find them), but if anyone has charts for other frames I'd love a copy.
> 
> The website is http://cheapcarbonframes.com/ if anyone wants to give me some feedback.


THANK YOU.

ever in northern california, ice cold beer for ya.


----------



## thesmokingman

That was mighty fine of you, nickl75. :thumbsup:


----------



## nickl75

redmr2_man said:


> THANK YOU.
> 
> ever in northern california, ice cold beer for ya.


A little far away (Australia here), but apart from that detail I'd take you up on it.  

More seriously though - if anyone has build pics they want hosted I'd be more than happy to do it. The more information the better as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## gs15step

Hi everyone,

I just thought I'd report back on my recent purchase from Jack @ MiracleTrade.

His website can be seen here: https://miracletrade.en.alibaba.com/

OK, so heres what my order consisted of, with prices:

- MTMC015 Frame, size 51, 3k finish	$365
- MTMO007 Fork, 3k finish $^^(incl in frame price)^^
- MTH373 Headset $18
- 2 MTMBC002 Bottle Cages, 3k finish	$18
- 2 Derailleur Hangers $free
- EMS Shipping to UK $110
- 4.5% Paypal fee $23
TOTAL $534

Shipping took exactly 12 days door to door, and Jack created me a special 'decoy' invoice for $50 which meant the package sailed through British customs without being charged a penny!

The reason I chose MiracleTrade was a combination of Jack's excellent service, and the fact that he had all the parts in stock ready to ship that very same day! No 50 day waiting lists like Hong-Fu!!!

Overall, Jack was a PLEASURE to deal with. His English is superb, he replied to every email sent within minutes and was often replying to my emails well into the night (in China). There has been a lot said about Hong-Fu's service, but honestly, I feel it is my duty to let you know about Jack @ MiracleTrade as the whole experience was flawless. Jack gave me a better service than even my LBS do, which says a lot.

And before you ask, I do not work for MiracleTrade! I am just a satisfied customer!!

Anyway, here are a few pics, weights can also be seen (uncut).

I'll post back in a couple of days once it's all built and ridden.

Ciao!!


----------



## philischen

Nice, what did you weigh the frame with? With or without all these plastic caps?


----------



## kmancrx

Anyone know anything about this frame?


----------



## slabber

mrwirey said:


> -Seat Clamp: KCNC anodized red (34.9) ($20 from eBay).


Tim - I'm ready to build my FM015... and had a quick question on your seatpost clamp. I've got a different one but similar to what you are using as far as I can tell from the photos (you do need to post sharper photos, build looks great).

The frame has quite a tall stepped section for the seatpost clamp. The clamp I ordered covers only about half of the stepped area heightwise. I'll be using a Thomson Masterpiece post with carbon prep so I am not worried about it slipping down - I'm more worried about the stress being in a more concentrated area under the clamp instead of being more distributed with a taller clamp.

I bought this:









but am thinking about this KCNC unit










How much of the stepped area is still visible below your seatpost clamp and do you feel it to be a concern at all?


----------



## WheresWaldo

^^^ *slabber*, this should not be a real concern, just make sure the clamp is completely seated on the recessed area. You should not be torquing down the bolt so much as to deform or crack any of the seat tube. it should be just tight enough to hold the seat post in place. 5nm at most.

If you are feeling particularly paranoid then the KCNC clamp is a good one. Please note that some of the taller clamps have a lip on the top that prevents it from sliding down too far.


----------



## slabber

Thanks WheresWaldo - yah, I'll be using carbon prep and won't be using much torque at all... it's one of the reasons I chose the Thomson post because of the knurled/milled finish which will help prevent any slippage as well. 

The clamp I bought also has the lip which really keeps it at the top. Its more of an aesthetic thing I think for me - when I look at the frame and there's still a large section of the stepped diameter visible below the clamp...


----------



## WheresWaldo

slabber said:


> The clamp I bought also has the lip which really keeps it at the top. Its more of an aesthetic thing I think for me - when I look at the frame and there's still a large section of the stepped diameter visible below the clamp...


There is nothing preventing you from sanding down some of the stepped portion to minimize the exposure. Just think, you would be shaving off weight too!


----------



## gs15step

philischen said:


> Nice, what did you weigh the frame with? With or without all these plastic caps?


Without.


----------



## slabber

WheresWaldo said:


> There is nothing preventing you from sanding down some of the stepped portion to minimize the exposure. Just think, you would be shaving off weight too!


But then I'd change the frame size ... it'd go from a 49, and now look, its a 48cm :lol: 

Not a bad idea though - I'll see how much it bothers me and consider that. Cheaper than buying another seat clamp too.


----------



## coachstevo

so, i've built my FM028 and its nice. Will post pics in a few days.

I bought a FM001 54 BSA in 3K with a straight blade FK002 fork as a back-up (i already have a 12K FM001), but i'm gonna sell it as I like the FM028 just as much. So, if you want a 54 i've got one here in the states, frame, uncut fork, headset, spare derailleur hangar. Never built. The frame is beautiful (seriously beautiful).
Just email me if you want to take it-- same price as hongfu +shipping


----------



## missinglink

Question for those of you who have bought carbon wheels.

I've got a 16h Powertap, would it be wise to use a 16h carbon wheel and have my PT hub built into it?

Mike


----------



## gs15step

missinglink said:


> Question for those of you who have bought carbon wheels.
> 
> I've got a 16h Powertap, would it be wise to use a 16h carbon wheel and have my PT hub built into it?
> 
> Mike


This is the carbon FRAME thread.


----------



## drew2002

Are any of these recommended sellers offering 60cm or 61cm frames? I looked at eBay, but I didn't see many (at least none listed so far here on this thread) who had these larger sizes.

BTW, thanks everyone for your info, especially the guy who put together cheapcarbonframes.com !


----------



## Safeway

Drew, someone on this page or one page back noted that he ordered a 60cm or 61cm frame from Hong-Fu (I think.)

Just look through the posts.


----------



## Safeway

Also, MORE PICTURES!

If you have a China Carbon Frame, post pictures. Even if you've posted them elsewhere, post them here with:

Manufacturer/Exporter
Frame Model
Frame Size
Cost


----------



## mrwirey

Slabber,
You are correct. I have more space under the KCNC seat post clamp than I would like; however, I am not worried about it breaking. That said I like the second KCNC option you are looking at as it would definitely cover that area better and provide better peace of mind. By the way I rode the bike into work today and I have to say that it runs brilliantly. I have a short commute (8 miles) with about 800 feet of elevation gain. The bike is flawless. No flex or whippiness. Firm, but not harsh. A joy to ride. I have approx. $3,500 invested in the total build and it rides every bit as nice as my 2010 Ridley Damocles costing more than twice as much. I am very pleased.
Very respectfully, Tim


----------



## IRMB

Safeway said:


> Drew, someone on this page or one page back noted that he ordered a 60cm or 61cm frame from Hong-Fu (I think.)
> 
> Just look through the posts.


No update on the 61 cm rfm 002 from greatkeen, and I havent seen anything from hongfu.

If anyone has info on this, please post!


----------



## old_mtbr

gs15step said:


> This is the carbon FRAME thread.


Buddy please read page #1, posts #9 thru 25 (or 27) 

Lots of wheels posts here. I might get out voted on this, but wheel posts are pertinent, what do you guys think? 
At least wheel posts are helping me, as this is more a "*Correspondence With China*" thread I realize its in a Bikes, Frame and Fork are, but in reality its CWC

Just my thoughts.


----------



## slabber

old_mtbr said:


> Buddy please read page #1, posts #9 thru 25 (or 27)
> 
> Lots of wheels posts here. I might get out voted on this, but wheel posts are pertinent, what do you guys think?
> At least wheel posts are helping me, as this is more a "*Correspondence With China*" thread I realize its in a Bikes, Frame and Fork are, but in reality its CWC
> 
> Just my thoughts.


Actually, he is right... there is a dedicated chinese carbon wheels thread 

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=2892085

We should try to stay on topic whenever possible. Lots of folks put chinese carbon wheels on their chinese carbon frames, so that's where the overlap occurs...


----------



## Søren A

Hi 

Here is my bike it is a Honfu Hf-FM010 and fork FK001 and it is a size 58 and in 12k carbon.It has Sram Force 2010 group and Sram S60 wheels and I got it painted here in denmark


----------



## Søren A

Where is my pictures it does not work fore me,whats wrong?


----------



## Safeway

Try attaching it to the document. Make sure the file size is not too big. Or, upload it to Photobucket and link to it from here.


----------



## yellowjeep

gs15step said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I just thought I'd report back on my recent purchase from Jack @ MiracleTrade.
> 
> His website can be seen here: http://miracletrade.en.alibaba.com/
> 
> OK, so heres what my order consisted of, with prices:
> 
> - MTMC015 Frame, size 51, 3k finish	$365
> - MTMO007 Fork, 3k finish $^^(incl in frame price)^^
> - MTH373 Headset $18
> - 2 MTMBC002 Bottle Cages, 3k finish	$18
> - 2 Derailleur Hangers $free
> - EMS Shipping to UK $110
> - 4.5% Paypal fee $23
> TOTAL $534
> 
> Shipping took exactly 12 days door to door, and Jack created me a special 'decoy' invoice for $50 which meant the package sailed through British customs without being charged a penny!
> 
> The reason I chose MiracleTrade was a combination of Jack's excellent service, and the fact that he had all the parts in stock ready to ship that very same day! No 50 day waiting lists like Hong-Fu!!!
> 
> Overall, Jack was a PLEASURE to deal with. His English is superb, he replied to every email sent within minutes and was often replying to my emails well into the night (in China). There has been a lot said about Hong-Fu's service, but honestly, I feel it is my duty to let you know about Jack @ MiracleTrade as the whole experience was flawless. Jack gave me a better service than even my LBS do, which says a lot.
> 
> And before you ask, I do not work for MiracleTrade! I am just a satisfied customer!!
> 
> Anyway, here are a few pics, weights can also be seen (uncut).
> 
> I'll post back in a couple of days once it's all built and ridden.
> 
> Ciao!!


Very excited to see this built up.

I hadn't realized that these had tapered front ends. That combined with a BB30 and possibly an ISP (need to think about that one) is making this pretty damn tempting. I don't know if thats a good thing or not though:thumbsup:


----------



## asherstash1

kmancrx said:


> Anyone know anything about this frame?



if you search for "hasa frame", theres pics of it built up on that thread on this website, the thread is an old one of these, its gorgeous frame innit! but seems little known???


----------



## tthome

OK...more pictures.

I have 2 carbon "china" frames.

*FM001 - LiveSTRONG Theme.* Full 7800 Dura Ace (parts cherry picked from ebay and craigslist) w/ Shimano R700 compact crank and Neuvation R28SL5 wheelset. Cost for entire build around $1500.

Size 54cm

*FM015 - Plain Black.* Full Shimano Black 105 brakes/derailluers. w/Ultegra shifters and again R700 compact crank and Neuvation R28SL5 wheelset. Cost for entire build $1400.

Size 53cm

If I had to choose which one I like the best, FM015. It seems to accelerate faster and ascend the hills better when I apply power. Don't get me wrong I think both are great bikes for the money when compared to what you could spend.


----------



## gs15step

yellowjeep said:


> Very excited to see this built up.
> 
> I hadn't realized that these had tapered front ends. That combined with a BB30 and possibly an ISP (need to think about that one) is making this pretty damn tempting. I don't know if thats a good thing or not though:thumbsup:


Yeah the tapered tube is nice, well built too. Mine's BSA as I'm building it with 7900, but I've seen BB30's that look very clean too... And mine is non-ISP as I just prefer it aesthetically.

Seriously though, give Jack an email and see what he has in stock. 12 days from the moment I ordered to delivery in the UK is pretty damn impressive!


----------



## Søren A

Hi 
I try one more time


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

Thats a fine looking bike you got there! :thumbsup:

I'm gonna have my FM28 delivered at my door tomorrow and gonna try to get it build b4 the end of the week.


----------



## WheresWaldo

Søren A 

That is a pretty bike but I am not sure that it was the correct size for you. There is quite a bit of seat post showing but that is not always a problem. What concerns me is the amount of spacers you used to get the correct handlebar height. Usually when you look at STACK and REACH measurements moving from one size to the next larger size increases the STACK much more than the REACH. 

I am guessing that this frame is really one size too small. Of course if you have flexibility issues or a very short torso, maybe it is the best fit you could get.


----------



## Søren A

Time will tell when I ride it but I am feling wery well on it but it is only a littel I have ride it,but I have to see it also have a littel bit off slope and I think the picture cheating a littel I mean how I have taken it


----------



## IRMB

IRMB said:


> No update on the 61 cm rfm 002 from greatkeen, and I havent seen anything from hongfu.
> 
> If anyone has info on this, please post!


Update. Greatkeen says they can get me the RFM201 in a size 61 - but it will be a 45 day lead time.

This is fine with me - so I will be ordering soon as she gives me a final total and ordering instructions.

You have to enter "rfm201" into the search field on their site to find this frame - but it's a very nice frame.

For those lanky dudes out there - this may be your solution!:thumbsup:

http://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/cp_detail.php?id=96&nowmenuid=12&cpath=0009:&catid=0


----------



## doggatas

just looking at the bike it appears there is quite a bit of handle bar drop even with all those spacers, so without the spacers there would be even more. Although the pic is on a funny angle


----------



## kmancrx

asherstash1 said:


> if you search for "hasa frame", theres pics of it built up on that thread on this website, the thread is an old one of these, its gorgeous frame innit! but seems little known???



I really like the look of this frame. I was going to get the FM001 from jenny but she only has 12k. I really like the 3k better. I am probably going to pull the trigger.


----------



## golfhacker1

Søren A said:


> Hi
> I try one more time



That is a beautiful bike. How much was the paint job and how long did it take?


----------



## golfhacker1

tthome said:


> OK...more pictures.
> 
> I have 2 carbon "china" frames.
> 
> *FM001 - LiveSTRONG Theme.* Full 7800 Dura Ace (parts cherry picked from ebay and craigslist) w/ Shimano R700 compact crank and Neuvation R28SL5 wheelset. Cost for entire build around $1500.
> 
> Size 54cm
> 
> *FM015 - Plain Black.* Full Shimano Black 105 brakes/derailluers. w/Ultegra shifters and again R700 compact crank and Neuvation R28SL5 wheelset. Cost for entire build $1400.
> 
> Size 53cm
> 
> If I had to choose which one I like the best, FM015. It seems to accelerate faster and ascend the hills better when I apply power. Don't get me wrong I think both are great bikes for the money when compared to what you could spend.



I saw your Picasso link for the FM-001 bike. I thought it looked terrific. How did you do the LiveStrong artwork? Was it difficult? Did you have to put clear coat on after it was applied? Any plans to add some bling for the FM-015?


----------



## scblur

*Fm015*

Guys
Just wanted to relay the info for other who are thinking of buying.
I ordered an FM015 from Jenny 1 week ago and its here already. Seven days from China to Penna. is pretty good considering it takes a week to get stuff from Calif.
Refering to the speedy service... I was very lucky as when I called, I wanted a 58cm FM015 ISP in 3k or 12k. She had one and told me I should decide quick. Otherwise I will have to wait 45days. 
It is beautiful, the deal went well, everything was beautifully packaged. The quality is fantastic as far as I can tell. Its my first carbon frame. I cannot weight it unfortunately.

It is a 58cm ISP.

Not certain how to decal it yet. Thinking of a few ideas. 

Thanks for the space.


----------



## yellowjeep

*scblur*, where are the pictures? :thumbsup:


----------



## scblur

yellowjeep said:


> *scblur*, where are the pictures? :thumbsup:



I will take another better one later. But here it is just after getting it out of the package.
The fork, yet unattached, etc.
Thanks!
Hummm, it does not show... in my member gallery? Oops there it is.. !


----------



## yellowjeep

So awesome. I really like the 3k finish. Whats the build plan?


----------



## Søren A

golfhacker1 said:


> That is a beautiful bike. How much was the paint job and how long did it take?


It take the painter 3 weeks to do and it cost 4000 danish krones and that is with evrything that is painted on the bike.It is about 537 euro and it is about 672 us dollars


----------



## Søren A

doggatas said:


> just looking at the bike it appears there is quite a bit of handle bar drop even with all those spacers, so without the spacers there would be even more. Although the pic is on a funny angle


I will take some other pictures from a other angel later and put on


----------



## schoey

Just thought I should let everyone know about my hong-fu experience, I'm seeing a lot of very fast delivery times and I don't want anyone who is in a hurry to get caught out.

I paid for my frame on the 22nd of April and still don't have it, so 13 weeks? My order wasn't too extreme, BB30 and UD I guess being the non-standard bits, so beware if you're not ordering the norm that you may have to wait a _little_ longer :cryin:


----------



## mcrent100

schoey said:


> Just thought I should let everyone know about my hong-fu experience, I'm seeing a lot of very fast delivery times and I don't want anyone who is in a hurry to get caught out.
> 
> I paid for my frame on the 22nd of April and still don't have it, so 13 weeks? My order wasn't too extreme, BB30 and UD I guess being the non-standard bits, so beware if you're not ordering the norm that you may have to wait a _little_ longer :cryin:


I was quoted 70 days lead time for UD finish.. So just went with matte black paint and had mine in a week...Did not feel the need for BB30 and did not wan to wait...


----------



## WheresWaldo

schoey said:


> Just thought I should let everyone know about my hong-fu experience, I'm seeing a lot of very fast delivery times and I don't want anyone who is in a hurry to get caught out.
> 
> I paid for my frame on the 22nd of April and still don't have it, so 13 weeks? My order wasn't too extreme, BB30 and UD I guess being the non-standard bits, so beware if you're not ordering the norm that you may have to wait a _little_ longer :cryin:


I am at 30 days right now but don't expect anything until 40 days passed. UD finish and BB30 were important to me as I already have a plan in mind for this build. It seems that most of what is "in stock" at HongFu, GreatKeen and others is 3K or 12K with standard BSA bottom bracket. I do not have any issues with the wait, I also see that people getting their frames quick as a good sign that these are reputable businesses and will not run off with my money.


----------



## tehbry

I apologize if this question has been answered already, but the original thread doesn't give me access often. (broken?)

Do we have Stack and reach numbers for popular frames like the FM015?

Is there a general consensus as to which model frames are copies of various popular retail brands?


----------



## elesido

Has anyone ever seen a complete bike with this frame here?

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/230280110/carbon_TT_frame.html

I wonder how the stem and bar look with the frame - looks like they could be nicely aligned. Any idea what stem to pick and what the stiffnes is like?


----------



## WheresWaldo

tehbry said:


> I apologize if this question has been answered already, but the original thread doesn't give me access often. (broken?)
> 
> Do we have Stack and reach numbers for popular frames like the FM015?
> 
> Is there a general consensus as to which model frames are copies of various popular retail brands?


See post #43

Then look at the very last post in the old thread to get the formula for STACK and REACH. There have been some attempts at comparisons to retail brands, but in general most of these are "open models" so you will only find equivalents in some small regional bike companies or those specifically selling on eBay.


----------



## tthome

golfhacker1 said:


> I saw your Picasso link for the FM-001 bike. I thought it looked terrific. How did you do the LiveStrong artwork? Was it difficult? Did you have to put clear coat on after it was applied? Any plans to add some bling for the FM-015?


The LiveSTRONG artwork is actually cast vinyl letters. I had them made locally. Cast vinyl is very durable and much higher quality than other vinyl. I didn't put clear coat on after the vinyl stickers were applied. The cast vinyl is very thin and so far the stickers have held up very well with zero issues. As for putting bling on the FM015, I don't plan on it right now, but I might move over my Fulcrum Racing 5 wheels just for some color. I've had more people ask about what type of bike I ride because I don't have decals or anything on it. I simply tell them it's an FM015 from China and I built it myself. Its funny, how many other riders that I ride with that know about the "china carbon" frames but haven't actually pulled the trigger or seen them. After they've seen my FM001 and FM015 I know of 2 other people have bought one. It's like they're "closet china carbon frame" curious.

I simply love the fact of having 4 bikes for the cost of 1 super high end name brand bike. I wouldn't be very happy if this happened but If someone crashes me or I crash on my own I always have another bike to ride. If owned 1 single bike around $5000-$6000 I'm afraid I'd get in a fight if someone wrecked me. Accident or not, I'd be upset at someone else or myself.


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

Owkey....in a quicky...just B4 I go to the bikeshop to on the "manivelles"...just 4 you guys.. 


The FM28 in 3k matt


----------



## dmabraham

Tony at Great Keen sent me an excel spreadsheet with a full list of available goods, prices, and pictures. Anyone have a good tip for how to post it up here?

Dan


----------



## mjdwyer23

Take a screen cap and save it as a pic.


----------



## dmabraham

Here is a link to download it from Google Docs

Price List


----------



## tommyglennon

is anyone else having trouble viewing that document?


----------



## gs15step

MiracleTrade catalogue...


----------



## mcrent100

tommyglennon said:


> is anyone else having trouble viewing that document?



says not available


----------



## thesmokingman

tommyglennon said:


> is anyone else having trouble viewing that document?


Raises hand! Edit, nevermind.


----------



## jwcurry83

I can't seem to view the spreadsheet doc.. says it doesn't exist when i click thru the link


----------



## tommyglennon

well you arent the only one, I still cannot see it. I have been dealing with Tony and having this spreadsheet would be easier to shop than back and forth emails.


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

unbelievable...the clincher wheelsets cost 100$ more than the same tubular wheelsets.


----------



## dmabraham

Sorry the spreadsheet is not working, if someone can give me a quick how to on screen captures I can go that route.


----------



## brendo

*Seat Mast cap for HF-FM015-SPL*

Hey all, 

I just purchased a HF-FM015-SPL and it comes with a generic seat mast cap and I can't get any info from jenny on how much adjustability I have once the mast is cut, but nothing from the manufacturer. 

I found that Ritchey makes a seat mast cap and claims 20mm of adjustment, but it doesn't look like they make one in 37mm, which is the size of the seat mast on this bike. 

Does anybody have any experience with this model/cap and know how much adjustment I'll have once cut, or know of a manufacturer of this size mast cap?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.


----------



## mcrent100

brendo said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I just purchased a HF-FM015-SPL and it comes with a generic seat mast cap and I can't get any info from jenny on how much adjustability I have once the mast is cut, but nothing from the manufacturer.
> 
> I found that Ritchey makes a seat mast cap and claims 20mm of adjustment, but it doesn't look like they make one in 37mm, which is the size of the seat mast on this bike.
> 
> Does anybody have any experience with this model/cap and know how much adjustment I'll have once cut, or know of a manufacturer of this size mast cap?
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks.



Not very much room for error I don't think...just make sure you measure , measure measure and measure again before you cut..I did not have an old bike to measure when I was building mine so I cut mine about 10 times till I got it right...Then went for a 50 mile ride and cut it again..Now I am pretty close.. Its a heavy clamp but works good. Was looking at the ritchey also but the biggest one only had a 5 or 10 mm setback..I need the 25mm setback..


----------



## scblur

Mine just came in the mail yesterday. I bought the same FM015 SPL. Looking at the masthead, I would give it a few mm at best, perhaps 4mm? I don't plan on adjusting mine at all. I plan on measuring off my old frame and leaving it there. It really does not look like its very adjustable.
Thphoto shows about 25-28mm WAY TOO much. That will snap off or crack.

Remember the old adage, "measure twice, cut once"

BTW GIANT has a nice writeup on how to cut these things.

Also see this
http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=36316
and how someone here did it. (post #128 Moosdawg)
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=217331&page=8


----------



## boyin

have anyone seen a frame with both internal top and down tube cabling?


----------



## campLo

has anyone ordered from miracle trade? Interested in their wheelset and wondering if they take paypal.


----------



## randomguy2

I wonder how long it will be until they start selling generic frames with a tighter fork design like the scott plasma bikes or even better, like the specialized shiv. I want something like that.


----------



## missinglink

ordered fm028 in 54 w/ fork seatpost and headset painted matte black for $543 w/ paypal fees and shipping from tony @ great keen yesterday.

I'll post pictures when it arrives.


----------



## _jsi_

*my bike built around "88bikefun ebay" frame*

Hi,

I got frame, fork, handlebar and stem in one order. Frame, fork and handlebar is good quality and very light weihgts. But do not bye stem, it stiff and durable, but have weight as ton. I change it to Controltech. Bike weight 8 kg. Good bike for spending money.


----------



## Spursrider

Nice looking bike. Is it 12K finish?


----------



## gs15step

campLo said:


> has anyone ordered from miracle trade? Interested in their wheelset and wondering if they take paypal.


Read my post about 10 posts back.


----------



## gs15step

gs15step said:


> Read my post about 10 posts back.


http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=2891417&postcount=263


----------



## _jsi_

Yes, 12K.


----------



## nickl75

randomguy2 said:


> I wonder how long it will be until they start selling generic frames with a tighter fork design like the scott plasma bikes or even better, like the specialized shiv. I want something like that.


Hasn't the Shiv been banned?


----------



## nickl75

BlackDoggystyle said:


> Owkey....in a quicky...just B4 I go to the bikeshop to on the "manivelles"...just 4 you guys..
> 
> 
> The FM28 in 3k matt


The FM28 looks great - but what is the seat with that hole in the nose? It actually looks pretty cool, but I've never seen one before.


----------



## randomguy2

nickl75 said:


> Hasn't the Shiv been banned?


I'm not a pro racer, so it doesn't matter. I'd love to have a generic carbon bike with a front end like that.


----------



## asad137

nickl75 said:


> Hasn't the Shiv been banned?


By the UCI. Still legal in non-UCI events.

Asad


----------



## asad137

BlackDoggystyle said:


> unbelievable...the clincher wheelsets cost 100$ more than the same tubular wheelsets.


Why is that surprising? Clincher wheelsets need more material and a stronger rim to hold the tire in place. It's harder to make a clincher.

Asad


----------



## WheresWaldo

nickl75 said:


> The FM28 looks great - but what is the seat with that hole in the nose? It actually looks pretty cool, but I've never seen one before.


That is a Selle Italia Flight saddle, it is not a hole, it is an insert It just happens to be the same color as the bricks.


----------



## dmabraham

http://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0Byv...MTE3MWRhZjBkZjZk&sort=name&layout=list&num=50

You can try this one, PDF that should be unlocked for everyone.


----------



## elesido

randomguy2 said:


> I wonder how long it will be until they start selling generic frames with a tighter fork design like the scott plasma bikes or even better, like the specialized shiv. I want something like that.


There is a frame with a similar head tube, but I don't know which fork, headset and handlebars would go with it: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/230280110/carbon_TT_frame.html


----------



## brendo

Thanks, that's what mine looks like, too. I'll be double and tripple checking the measurements for sure. 

Brendo



scblur said:


> Mine just came in the mail yesterday. I bought the same FM015 SPL. Looking at the masthead, I would give it a few mm at best, perhaps 4mm? I don't plan on adjusting mine at all. I plan on measuring off my old frame and leaving it there. It really does not look like its very adjustable.
> Thphoto shows about 25-28mm WAY TOO much. That will snap off or crack.
> 
> Remember the old adage, "measure twice, cut once"
> 
> BTW GIANT has a nice writeup on how to cut these things.
> 
> Also see this
> http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=36316
> and how someone here did it. (post #128 Moosdawg)
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=217331&page=8


----------



## brendo

That's the same set up I've got. Measure, measure, measure. 

Jenny said that I'd have 20mm of adjustment, but then said I should use spacers, so I think she's talking about the possible stem height. The language barrier is a definate issue with Hong Fu. Other than that I'm really happy with the purchase.

Thanks for the response.




scblur said:


> Mine just came in the mail yesterday. I bought the same FM015 SPL. Looking at the masthead, I would give it a few mm at best, perhaps 4mm? I don't plan on adjusting mine at all. I plan on measuring off my old frame and leaving it there. It really does not look like its very adjustable.
> Thphoto shows about 25-28mm WAY TOO much. That will snap off or crack.
> 
> Remember the old adage, "measure twice, cut once"
> 
> BTW GIANT has a nice writeup on how to cut these things.
> 
> Also see this
> http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=36316
> and how someone here did it. (post #128 Moosdawg)
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=217331&page=8


----------



## jeffxxxwhiteford

So, posted in the last thread, but here we go again

55cm LTK-006 Frame. This is from LT Bike company, but has exactly the same geometry as the fm015. Bought from these guys as they had a shorter lead time for the painted version in my size.

Specs:

55cm LTK-006
Sram force grouppo (w/- Red chainring purely for looks)
Generic carbon wheels (locally purchased in NZ, but pretty much from these same guys)
Look Keos
Deda Zero 100 bar and stem, dark metal
San Marco Concor lite

Bike rides great, stiff and light. Having a few troubles with the rear mech, but that is just the breaking in period for a new group.

Total price for Frame, Fork, Headset, Seatpost topper, Freight and TT bank fee was NZ$707. Cant be bothered finding the US$ invoice at the moment, sorry guys.

Sorry for the ghetto photo, camera phone while out this morning.


----------



## jeffxxxwhiteford

brendo said:


> That's the same set up I've got. Measure, measure, measure.
> 
> Jenny said that I'd have 20mm of adjustment, but then said I should use spacers, so I think she's talking about the possible stem height. The language barrier is a definate issue with Hong Fu. Other than that I'm really happy with the purchase.
> 
> Thanks for the response.


When she is talking spcaers, she probably means if you cut the seatmast, then want to adjust up, you need to put a spacer in between the top of the mast and the bottom of the topper.

I cut mine, was fine for a while, then i decided to put it up a little bit. Found a wide 5mm alloy stem spacer, works a treat.


----------



## brendo

Interesting Idea. The mast on mine is 37mm; is yours the same? I'd be interested in picking up some if that is the case.

Thanks.



jeffxxxwhiteford said:


> When she is talking spcaers, she probably means if you cut the seatmast, then want to adjust up, you need to put a spacer in between the top of the mast and the bottom of the topper.
> 
> I cut mine, was fine for a while, then i decided to put it up a little bit. Found a wide 5mm alloy stem spacer, works a treat.


----------



## scblur

*Frame protection strips?*

Guys, 
New to carbon frame and a bit concerned about any chain slap or other stuff. Do I need some kind of plastic protection strips? and if so where?

Thanks in advance!

BTW some new photos...


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

OK, this is my first foray into the exciting world of carbon. I've figured out that I have to purchase carbon assembly paste and probably 2 torque wrenches. BUT

when my frameset arrives, I will be very surprised if they include a sheet with required torque settings for everything. Carbon being carbon, I imagine they'd be pretty much the same for all carbon framesets.

Can somebody tell me where to find good torque values for everything I need on new carbon frameset? Seatpost clamp, bottom bracket (Hollowtech II external bearing), front derailleur clamp, brake mounting bolts, and others I'm forgetting?

Also, If you have specific recommendations on torque wrenches, I'd like to hear them. This may be the only time I'll use them, so I'm looking for economy here . . .

Thanks!


----------



## slabber

jeffxxxwhiteford said:


> So, posted in the last thread, but here we go again
> 
> 55cm LTK-006 Frame. This is from LT Bike company, but has exactly the same geometry as the fm015.


I'd say LTK-006 = FM015


----------



## ericTheHalf

scblur said:


> Guys,
> New to carbon frame and a bit concerned about any chain slap or other stuff. Do I need some kind of plastic protection strips? and if so where?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> BTW some new photos...


I don't have one of these ebay frames but I do have a carbon bike with a lot of miles on it. If you are concerned about chain slap causing structural damage, since the outer layer of carbon is cosmetic and protective that shouldn't be a problem. Chain slap will ding up your clear coat so I'd just use a chain protector like you would on any bike. 

My chainstays have quite a bit of wear in 2 locations. One is by the small chain ring where the chain gets squeezed through if I've done a bad job adjusting my front derailleur and the chain drops.

The second place will only apply if your frame has horizontal dropouts. Mine has forward facing dropouts and if I'm sloppy with the quick release when I put on my rear wheel, the next time I jump on the pedals I'll pull the wheel so that the tire will grind away at the chainstay until I come to a stop. I don't have any suggestions what to use to protect those areas but it might be worth doing if you can find something. 

On the other hand, in both locations the damage has visibly worn through some carbon and I've continue to put thousands of miles on the bike without it breaking so maybe you don't need to protect them either.


----------



## scblur

----- oops


----------



## golfhacker1

Coachstevo,

Who did you purchase your FM28 from. Do you have any info on the geometry of the bike and the length of the top tube? Can't wait to see the pictures.


----------



## elesido

dmabraham said:


> http://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0Byv...MTE3MWRhZjBkZjZk&sort=name&layout=list&num=50
> 
> You can try this one, PDF that should be unlocked for everyone.


Great, thanks a lot!


----------



## Italiano

Hey guys, have anyone bought this frame?

I was eager to see it assembled and get some real weights.
Cheers.


----------



## WheresWaldo

Italiano said:


> Hey guys, have anyone bought this frame?
> 
> I was eager to see it assembled and get some real weights.
> Cheers.


That bike looks like an ISP version of the PedalForce RS. There are many of those built up so you can see what that looks like to compare. In general the weights have been about on spec for the Chinese frames, unless you are looking at the largest sizes.


----------



## dmabraham

My frame arrived from Tony, total shipping time was four days from China to Id, delivered this afternoon via USPS. Everything looks to be in good shape, packaged well and survived shipping no problems. Now I need to switch over my whole red group from my current bike.

For those with SRAM front derailleur, which size adaptor clamp did you buy for installation? I can just measure the tube diameter, but there is a flat spot right around where it looks like a band would fit. Oh, and any suggestions on barrel adjusters?


----------



## WheresWaldo

dmabraham said:


> ...
> 
> For those with SRAM front derailleur, which size adaptor clamp did you buy for installation? I can just measure the tube diameter, but there is a flat spot right around where it looks like a band would fit. Oh, and any suggestions on barrel adjusters?


The flat spot is where the derailleur cage sits in to the lower ring or triple low ring. The clamp actually goes slightly above it. It should be 34.9 mm.


----------



## Magsdad

*Just a few questions...*

I am considering the FM028 in the non-integrated, but might be interested in the integrated. HOWEVER, I am 230 lbs and am concerned about the tolerances of the ISP, specifically the cap. Some say its stronger and stiffer, but I just want to be sure. 

Is it worth getting the headset included?
What type of frame prep was involved upon receipt?
Is the matte finish a transparent finish or a matte black finish?

My last bike was a Fuji carbon which I liked until it ended up under a truck. I presume these will be of similar quality.

Thanks!


----------



## missinglink

Magsdad said:


> I am considering the FM028 in the non-integrated, but might be interested in the integrated. HOWEVER, I am 230 lbs and am concerned about the tolerances of the ISP, specifically the cap. Some say its stronger and stiffer, but I just want to be sure.
> 
> Is it worth getting the headset included?
> What type of frame prep was involved upon receipt?
> Is the matte finish a transparent finish or a matte black finish?
> 
> My last bike was a Fuji carbon which I liked until it ended up under a truck. I presume these will be of similar quality.
> 
> Thanks!


I just ordered the non-ISP fm028 in matte black, I'll take some pics and post along with weight info and thoughts (I own a specialized transition) of how it compares to my other carbon bike.

Mike


----------



## yellowjeep

Does the fm28 have a tapered steerer?

EDIT: Yes it does answered my own question.


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

The matte finish depends on what you ask... 

I know that if you look at some pictures you don't realy see much of a diffirence...but thats because it's just a picture..taken from some distance.

Mine is matt 3K finish butt on the picture is seems like matt black.

From distance









Up close








(The bottom of the headset isn't installed yet..that is why there is an "off-set"...in case you would wonder)

The decals on the bike are photoshop'ed...  Just testing what would llok best on the bike without overdoing it.


----------



## WheresWaldo

BlackDoggystyle said:


> The decals on the bike are photoshop'ed...  Just testing what would look best on the bike without overdoing it.


That is something I was also planning, should have my frame the beginning of August. Plan is to have the local vinyl cutter make me a paint mask for the logo then just shooting a coat of gloss clear. It makes it black on black with glossy lettering on a matte frame.

I really like the look of the translucent red around the edges. Although I would probably lose the seat tube lettering.


----------



## tehbry

Looking for some more help here with Stack and Reach numbers. I've reviewed Waldo's formula, but can't identify the Axle height.

Waldo - or anyone, can you identify these numbers. Specifically for the FM015 in size 53 and 55.

Secondly, it appears the FM28 has a longer headtube, respectively, in the various sizes. Does anyone have geometry CAD sheets for this product? Has anyone determined the stach and reach?

Thanks.


----------



## lobo

Here you have 028
https://img830.imageshack.us/img830/6098/fm02856.jpg
and 015
https://img840.imageshack.us/img840/2241/fm01555.jpg
028 compared to 015 is a bit more " relaxed ", great for long/solo riding. For me 015 geometry is far better - I need climbing machine.


----------



## tehbry

Lobo - great information. Do you have links to the FM28 is size 54 and 52? What about the FM015 in size 53?

Thanks.


----------



## WheresWaldo

tehbry said:


> Lobo - great information. Do you have links to the FM28 is size 54 and 52? What about the FM015 in size 53?
> 
> Thanks.


The BB drop should be the same even on the smaller sizes


----------



## juki48

I'm a casual rider looking for a comfortable road frame. my current cannondale has a 56mm top tube and is too big for me. I was looking for a steel frame when I found this forum. below are my measurements. I'm looking for recommendations. the frame I'm looking at is the MT-MC015 in 51cm from miracle trade. http://www.miracle-trade.net.cn/product/253230333-209302532/New_racing_frame.html

Your Measurements
Gender	M
Inseam	30.75 in
Trunk	23.75 in
Forearm	13 in
Arm	23.5 in
Thigh	23.5 in
Lower Leg	20.5 in
Sternal Notch	55.5 in
Total Body Height	67.5 in
The Competitive Fit	The Eddy Fit	The French Fit
Seat tube range c-c	50.6 - 51.1	51.8 - 52.3	53.5 - 54.0
Seat tube range c-t	52.1 - 52.6	53.3 - 53.8	55.0 - 55.5
Top tube length	51.7 - 52.1 51.7 - 52.1	52.9 - 53.3
Stem Length	10.2 - 10.8	9.1 - 9.7	9.3 - 9.9
BB-Saddle Position	66.7 - 68.7	65.9 - 67.9	64.2 - 66.2
Saddle-Handlebar	49.2 - 49.8	50.0 - 50.6	51.7 - 52.3
Saddle Setback	4.5 - 4.9	5.7 - 6.1	5.2 - 5.6


----------



## lobo

tehbry said:


> Lobo - great information. Do you have links to the FM28 is size 54 and 52? What about the FM015 in size 53?
> 
> Thanks.


028 :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160456992155&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
015 :
http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Products.asp?Id=399


----------



## tarzan13

Hi Ericthehalf, 

Do you mind telling me how many km/miles you have on your carbon frames, and what brand they are? I do about 10 000km per year and am not convinced that a carbon frame will last for more than 2 years.

Thanks


----------



## slabber

*my 49cm non-ISP FM015*

Here's my 49cm non-ISP FM015 from Hong Fu in the obligatory garage door shot. (Except my garage door is green and not white.)

Finally built it today and went for a quick 50km ride. Very pleased with how it turned out.


----------



## ericTheHalf

tarzan13 said:


> Hi Ericthehalf,
> 
> Do you mind telling me how many km/miles you have on your carbon frames, and what brand they are? I do about 10 000km per year and am not convinced that a carbon frame will last for more than 2 years.
> 
> Thanks


Hi Tarzan 13. I only have the one carbon bike, seen here http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=2864297&postcount=43 and it has been great. 16 years and easily 80,000 miles (128,000 km) on it. 

Might I ask why you don't think your bike won't last past 20,000 km?


----------



## yellowjeep

slabber said:


> Here's my 49cm non-ISP FM015 from Hong Fu in the obligatory garage door shot. (Except my garage door is green and not white.)
> 
> Finally built it today and went for a quick 50km ride. Very pleased with how it turned out.
> 
> https://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv205/andrewolive/CIMG3839.jpg[/IMG[/QUOTE]
> 
> I am guessing since its just built your tape is tan (natural cork?) and not dirty. I really dig the way that it looks. Is it 3k matte? Great bike.


----------



## tarzan13

ericTheHalf said:


> Hi Tarzan 13. I only have the one carbon bike, seen here http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=2864297&postcount=43 and it has been great. 16 years and easily 80,000 miles (128,000 km) on it.
> 
> Might I ask why you don't think your bike won't last past 20,000 km?


Thanks,

Mainly abuse by London roads... quality of roads is very poor here.


----------



## slabber

yellowjeep said:


> I am guessing since its just built your tape is tan (natural cork?) and not dirty. I really dig the way that it looks. Is it 3k matte? Great bike.


Handlebar tape is tan colored Salsa gel cork tape (not natural) and yup, finish is matte clearcoat 3k weave.


----------



## stolen_mirth

Hey all,
thought I'd finally get around to posting some pics of my hong fu frames. I ordered a fm015spl and a fm016 mountain frame. I know it's a road bike forum, but I thought I'd risk it and post a photo of the mountain bike anyway. I'm still waiting for some brake cable housing to arrive, so I haven't taken the 015 out for a ride yet. It's built up with 2008 record shifters and rear der, chorus front, zero gravity brakes, cannondale bb30 cranks, sram bb, and ksyrium sl ssc's. It's a 58cm frame as well. According to my scale here it comes in at 6.9kg. It's quite a bit lighter than my 2006 madone 5.9sl frame that I took all the parts off of. Now I'll just have to wait and see how the ride quality compares. It took 73 business days from when I ordered for the frames to be shipped. Had to wait extra for the bb30 and uni carbon finish, but I think it was worth it. Shipping took 5 days from China to my door here in Sweden, and very low import fees thanks to the low declared value. Cheers.


View attachment 206646


View attachment 206645


View attachment 206644


View attachment 206643


----------



## Italiano

WheresWaldo said:


> That bike looks like an ISP version of the PedalForce RS. There are many of those built up so you can see what that looks like to compare. In general the weights have been about on spec for the Chinese frames, unless you are looking at the largest sizes.


Thanks for the answer but it doesnt looks exactly like an RS.


----------



## jackbean

Does anyone have the email contact for ordering the matte black FM028? I asked [email protected] about it but they said they do not sell it. Thanks.


----------



## rozzer32

New to these forums so please help a newbie lol.

been looking at this bike on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160458723281&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_7504wt_1157

Anybody got any experience of this frame and/or seller? Also anyone know any other people that are selling this frame?


----------



## mcrdave

Hi Mirth, 

Your FM015 is lovely. First one I've seen with UD finish. I wanted this but didnt want the 70 day wait so have opted for sprayed matt black, am hoping this looks ok, will post when I receive it.


----------



## LarsEjaas

jackbean said:


> Does anyone have the email contact for ordering the matte black FM028? I asked [email protected] about it but they said they do not sell it. Thanks.


Hi Jack and everybody else. 

I am new here.
I am looking into a China frame too, and seems that Tony is currently at Dengfu http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com

Greatkeen is - as far as I can tell a different trading company - found at http://www.greatkeenbike.com but hard to tell - many of the same frames are sold by different trading companies.

Lars


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

rozzer32 said:


> New to these forums so please help a newbie lol.
> 
> been looking at this bike on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160458723281&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_7504wt_1157
> 
> Anybody got any experience of this frame and/or seller? Also anyone know any other people that are selling this frame?



You need to learn to look into the hole thread before asking questions . This is the FM28 frame we are talking about. If you look a page down I posted pictures of the frame almost finished. This seller is Tony from Denfu (greatkeen) ..and yes...greatkeenbike.com are NOT the same sellers as Dengfu/Greatkeen.

At the moment he is the only seller that is going to sell this frame because his company is the only one making it.


----------



## jackbean

I asked carbonzone on ebay for a quote if I paid directly through PayPal for the fm028. Here is the quote: 
The 52cm , NON - ISP, matt black is $ 468.
And the headset is $ 15, but it is not carbon .
The cabon seatpost is $ 35.
The carbon stem is $ 55.
The carbon handlebar is $ 58.
And the shipping cost to USA is $ 75.


----------



## tommyglennon

Jack,
I just ordered through Tony @ greatkeen, i bought
FM28 3k raw ( i plan on painting it myself) WITH seatpost and fork for 390
headset 15
handlbars 48
Shipping to Chicago 75
Paypal fees - 18
Now maybe he has figured in the paypal extra 4% or so into your prices but that all really doesnt add up.

Email him directly - [email protected] or do some more research like on Alibaba

as for everyone else, i will be posting pictures of my stuff when it gets in. Hopefully next week.


----------



## rozzer32

Blackdoggystyle - I did look through the thread but theres so many posts i just kept getting confused between the different models.

Have you got a link to this Tony or his company?


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

jackbean said:


> I asked carbonzone on ebay for a quote if I paid directly through PayPal for the fm028. Here is the quote:
> The 52cm , NON - ISP, matt black is $ 468.
> And the headset is $ 15, but it is not carbon .
> The cabon seatpost is $ 35.
> The carbon stem is $ 55.
> The carbon handlebar is $ 58.
> And the shipping cost to USA is $ 75.


Getting more expensive already ? I paid 435$ for my non-ISP FM28. And that was matt color and seatpost included.


----------



## tommyglennon

I think the prices have just gone up through ebay, which was noted before because of the fees through ebay and paypal...

Like I said, i ordered mine last week and those were the prices i was given.


----------



## coachstevo

golfhacker1 said:


> Coachstevo,
> 
> Who did you purchase your FM28 from. Do you have any info on the geometry of the bike and the length of the top tube? Can't wait to see the pictures.


THrough GreatKeen/Dengfu

I have the specs for all sizes...email me at [email protected] and I'll send em to ya


----------



## normster

I am confused. So what I'm gathering is that Ms. Hu from greatkeen is not the same company as Tony from greatkeen? I'm interested in buying a carbon frame from Ms. Hu, but I haven't really seen anyone who has gotten and posted up pictures of a frame they got from Ms. Hu's greatkeen.


----------



## fab4

*The Beatles "White Album"*

Check out my Beatles "White Album" bike.


----------



## config

fab4 said:


> Check out my Beatles "White Album" bike.


That's one sweet ride!


----------



## asherstash1

are they microshift on that ? what they like?


----------



## ntb1001

normster said:


> I am confused. So what I'm gathering is that Ms. Hu from greatkeen is not the same company as Tony from greatkeen? I'm interested in buying a carbon frame from Ms. Hu, but I haven't really seen anyone who has gotten and posted up pictures of a frame they got from Ms. Hu's greatkeen.



I bought this frame from Ms. Hu at GreatKeen bike company. It is a mountain bike, but I had no problems dealing with them. I found them very reputable.


----------



## karlo

ntb1001 said:


> I bought this frame from Ms. Hu at GreatKeen bike company. It is a mountain bike, but I had no problems dealing with them. I found them very reputable.


What did the frame cost you, and did it come with the graphics and logos? What's the weight on that bike :thumbsup:


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

rozzer32 said:


> Blackdoggystyle - I did look through the thread but theres so many posts i just kept getting confused between the different models.
> 
> Have you got a link to this Tony or his company?


This is the best way .... http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/ :thumbsup:


----------



## campLo

jackbean said:


> I asked carbonzone on ebay for a quote if I paid directly through PayPal for the fm028. Here is the quote:
> The 52cm , NON - ISP, matt black is $ 468.
> And the headset is $ 15, but it is not carbon .
> The cabon seatpost is $ 35.
> The carbon stem is $ 55.
> The carbon handlebar is $ 58.
> And the shipping cost to USA is $ 75.


I would steer clear of that stem. From what I read it weighs a ton. I opted for a cheaper easton stem but will be switching to a ritchey wcs soon.


----------



## jwcurry83

BlackDoggystyle said:


> Getting more expensive already ? I paid 435$ for my non-ISP FM28. And that was matt color and seatpost included.


Did you pay for it via paypal? Because I would suspect that the price increases includes the paypal fees that the seller would incur. A small price to pay to get all your money back if something goes wrong...


----------



## pennyweight

Does anyone know which seat tube measurement (C-C or C-T) are they using for the 015-SPL?


----------



## rozzer32

After reading the comments on here I have decided against going for a frame with an ISP because of the clamp weight and it being a bigger size.

Seen another frame and it has the BB30 option. Anyone got a frame from these sellers with BB30? What is the quality like?


----------



## config

ntb1001 said:


> I bought this frame from Ms. Hu at GreatKeen bike company. It is a mountain bike, but I had no problems dealing with them. I found them very reputable.


I purchased a frame and several parts from them too but haven't received it yet. It's only been 10 days. It's a little frustrating communicating back and forth for me since they only answer a question at a time. For example, I ask 3 questions and they reply with answering one. I ask the other 2 questions the next time and they answer one so it takes several e-mails to get the message completely across.


----------



## mcrent100

rozzer32 said:


> After reading the comments on here I have decided against going for a frame with an ISP because of the clamp weight and it being a bigger size.
> 
> Seen another frame and it has the BB30 option. Anyone got a frame from these sellers with BB30? What is the quality like?



You will end up likely with the same weight as a seatpost clamp and seatpost anyway.. And the little weight will not make a performance difference anyway. My 58cm fm015 is 15 pounds 15 oz ready to ride.. maybe a little lighter now that I have trimmed the steerer and seatpost down a bit more...


----------



## rozzer32

mcrent100 said:


> You will end up likely with the same weight as a seatpost clamp and seatpost anyway.. And the little weight will not make a performance difference anyway. My 58cm fm015 is 15 pounds 15 oz ready to ride.. maybe a little lighter now that I have trimmed the steerer and seatpost down a bit more...


I read on here the clamp was about 194g which is more than the carbon seat post I have.

Also it saves me the hassle of cutting it down and it will make it easier to sell on in the future. 

However looking at the pictures here https://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Upload/Pic/2009719194633262.jpg there are no cable guide on the down tube. Does the frame come with these? Also I take it the rear brake cable runs through the inside of the top tube?


----------



## karlo

Anyone have the RFM101 from GreatKeen, I was thinking of getting that one also together with the FM015 and asking if it can be painted BoB like this, i know i know if i want a real one get one but I just don't see me spending $4k on a frame.
*
GreatKeen:*


----------



## slabber

rozzer32 said:


> After reading the comments on here I have decided against going for a frame with an ISP because of the clamp weight and it being a bigger size.
> 
> Seen another frame and it has the BB30 option. Anyone got a frame from these sellers with BB30? What is the quality like?


My FM015 is BB30. I'm running a SRAM/Truvativ bb with a Force crankset. 

BB installed smoothly without issue and I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary at all. Seems to be very efficient power transfer.


----------



## Zootv

*Paint*

Does anyone know if you can order these bikes without paint? If i order one of these frames, I am going to do a custom paint job anyway, so why pay for the shop to strip it. 

Or should I atleast have them put on the base coat?


----------



## robpar

Zootv said:


> Does anyone know if you can order these bikes without paint? If i order one of these frames, I am going to do a custom paint job anyway, so why pay for the shop to strip it.
> 
> Or should I atleast have them put on the base coat?


Yes. You can get "raw", without clear coat...


----------



## gs15step

Hi folks,

Just thought I'd share a few pics of the finished build. 

My initial post detailing where I purchased the frame from, who exactly I dealt with, how much I paid and a brief review of the service can be found here: https://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=2891417#post2891417 (POST 263).

First the spec:

FRAME: MTMC015
FORKS: MTMO007
DER CLAMP: Parlee
CABLES: Alligator iLinks
BRAKES: DA 7900
SHIFTERS: DA 7900
BB: DA 7900
CASSETTE: DA 7900
FRONT DER: DA 7900
REAR DER: DA 7900
CRANKS: DA 7900
CHAIN: DA 7900
WHEELS: DA C50 TU
PEDALS: DA
TIRES: Vittoria Corsa Evo CX 320tpi
VALVES: Vittoria 80mm
SEATPOST: Fizik Cyrano 
SADDLE: Fizik Arione
STEM: 3T Arx Pro
BARS: 3T Ergonova Pro
TAPE: No-Name Black
CAGES: 18g Carbon
SKEWERS: Mt Zoom Ti
BOLTS: KCNC/Ti
SEAT CLAMP: KCNC Ti
JOCKEY WHEELS: KCNC Ceramic

And now the pic's:


























































































Remember to read this for all the purchase details: https://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=2891417#post2891417 (POST 263).

Ciao!


----------



## rozzer32

slabber said:


> My FM015 is BB30. I'm running a SRAM/Truvativ bb with a Force crankset.
> 
> BB installed smoothly without issue and I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary at all. Seems to be very efficient power transfer.


Thats what I wanted to hear because I will be building it with sram force.

Did your frame come with cable guides on the down tube?


----------



## slabber

The frame has riveted aluminum cable stops on the down tube and a cable guide under the BB shell. You'll need your own barrel adjusters to thread into the cable stops.


----------



## slabber

gs15step said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Just thought I'd share a few pics of the finished build.


Looks sweet!

(I should take some better photos of my build too!)


----------



## yurl

is the MTMC015 frame the same as the Hongfu FM015?


----------



## slabber

yurl said:


> is the MTMC015 frame the same as the Hongfu FM015?


It's the same.


----------



## rozzer32

I want to get the frame in matt black. Will it come with a protective clear coat over the matt black paint? If it comes with a clear coat then would that take away the matt look?

Id rather have a bare carbon frame with clear coat rather than a matt black one with the paint chipping off after a few rides.


----------



## slabber

My frame is matte clearcoat on 3K weave.

I'm sure you could request a matte clearcoat over the matte black paint. Actually,it would probably end up being regular black paint with a matte clear over top most likely.


----------



## rozzer32

Slabber - So you can just see the 3K weave underneath?

If you have got any could you send me some pictures? [email protected]

Thanks


----------



## dmabraham

slabber said:


> The frame has riveted aluminum cable stops on the down tube and a cable guide under the BB shell. You'll need your own barrel adjusters to thread into the cable stops.



Where can one pick up some barrel adjusters, and are there different sizes?


----------



## karlo

dmabraham said:


> Where can one pick up some barrel adjusters, and are there different sizes?


Local bike shop always have some or online.


----------



## slabber

rozzer - here's some more pics...

I've applied 3M Paint Protection film on the chainstay and the head tube - gives it a gloss look.

I've got a bike fit appointment in 2 weeks and will cut down my steerer to the finished length after that.


----------



## slabber

Personally, I like the look of carbon fiber and feel any paint job should at least have cutouts where you can still see the CF underneath... 

Colored clearcoat was my original preference - Tony at GreatKeen said it was doable and I was ready to go that route before he stopped responding...

Here's the color sample they were going to duplicate for me (from leopard cycles):


----------



## rozzer32

cheers slabber.

Looks really cool, think i'm going to go for that.


----------



## WheresWaldo

It has come to my attention that many people are having trouble figuring out how to compare these frame sizes and what does or doesn't fit. So I will use the CAD drawing of the FM015 in 55cm as an example of how to do the calculations.

First to repeat exactly what *STACK *and *REACH *are:

Simplified, *STACK* is the measurement from the center of the bottom bracket to the top of the head tube. Mathematically represented it is:
<address>*STACK = BB_drop + (Axle_crown_ht + Head_tube_ht) * sin(Head_tube_angle)
*
</address>*REACH* is the measurement from the center of the bottom bracket to the center of the head tube along the effective top tube line. Mathematically represented it is: *
REACH = Effective_top_tube – STACK / tan(Seat_tube_angle)

 *









*Definitions of terms:*

For road bicycles, using conventional sized wheels, *BB_drop* is the measurement from the BB spindle centerline below wheel axle centerlines.

*Axle_crown_ht* is the distance between the axle crown race and the centerline of the front wheel axle along the head tube axis. (Drawn as a straight line down the center of the head tube)

*Head_tube_ht* is the actual length of the head tube along it's centerline.

*Head_tube_angle* is the angle measurement from horizontal.

*Effective_top_tube* is the horizontal distance from the top tube/head tube junction, at the top tube centerline, to the seat tube parallel to the ground.

*Seat_tube_angle* is the angle measurement from horizontal.

Using the following CAD drawing we can calculate *STACK *first then *REACH* as follows:












Code:


STACK = 70 + ( 368 + 150 ) * SIN ( 72.5)
STACK = 70 + ( 518 ) * 0.9537
STACK = 70 + 494.0253
STACK = 564.0253

REACH = 548.5 - 564.0 / TAN (73.5)
REACH = 548.5 - 564.0 / 3.3759
REACH = 548.5 - 167.0644
REACH = 381.4355

To make it easier we round to a single decimal point and get a *STACK *of 564.0 and a *REACH *of 381.4.

Now with these two equations and a specification sheet from nearly every frame manufacturer you should be able to compare apples to apples when it comes to frame size. Please note that this will only get you the right size frame and does not have any relationship to how that geometry affects bike handling. The easiest way to see if the numbers are correct is to take your existing bike, if it fits correctly, and measure it. Then calculate it's *STACK *and *REACH *comparing those numbers to the new frame you are contemplating. It is easy then to estimate things like just how long a stem you may need or how deep a set of handlebars, or how many spacers will it take to put the bars at the height you want them. *STACK *and *REACH *are powerful bits of information when you want to compare sizes.

So how does this really help? In my case I have a PedalForce RS that fits so well that I can even tell when something is moved as little as 2mm. So using that as my _gold standard_, it has a calculated *STACK *and *REACH *of 573.6 and 380.1 respectively. I purchased a 55cm FM015 which we just calculated *STACK *and *REACH *of 564.0 and 381.4. Equipped with these two measurements I already know that in order to get the handlebars at the same height, from the ground on these two bike, I will have to add about 9 mm more spacer under the stem of the FM015. To get the bars in the correct place horizontally I can use the exact same size stem I currently use since the difference is only 1 mm.

Just one more note. This applies to the reasons we don't care about saddle height or crank arm length or saddle fore/aft positioning when comparing frames. You did not magically grow or shrink just because you bought a new frame. Let me repeat that, your body dimensions did not change with a new frame purchase! You have three contact points on a bike and they are feet, ass and hands. The feet are fixed by your choice of crank arms and your saddle is fixed in relation to the bottom bracket with regard to height and aft positioning. A new frame does not change the relationship with the bottom bracket, if the tip of your saddle is 6 cm behind the center of the bottom bracket spindle a new bike will put it in the same spot. If you have a saddle height of 74 cm from bottom bracket spindle center to top of saddle it will likely still be 74 cm with a new frame. 

My suggestion is to learn these two measurements and use them for comparison, even if you are looking at name brand bikes at your LBS. It will help you not make a mistake in sizing even if a manufacturer decides to size their bikes as XS, S, M, L, XL. You will never have to guess if you are an M or a L ever again.


----------



## tthome

I have the FM001 and the FM015. I'm planning to swap my 2009 Rival Group off my 2005 Felt F65 frame and onto this one.

http://www.flyxii.com/products_1.as...hMAAACUxV8C&bcsi_scan_filename=products_1.asp

This frame looks similar to a De Rosa frame that I've seen. Any pictures of this built up? Right now I can get the fork, frame, headset and 2 carbon cages shipped to me for $360. I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but I'm very tempted based on my previous builds of the FM001 and the FM015.

/tim


----------



## ogdnut

Was going to build my 015 without barrel adjusters. Looking back at most builds, it looks like that isn't an option many have gone with. What do I lose by not having barrel adjusters? Sram Red Shifters and Rear Derailleur with Force Front.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

ogdnut said:


> What do I lose by not having barrel adjusters?


The ability to adjust your derailleur cable tension on the front and rear easily while riding or stopped... I build all of my bikes with either in-line or cable stop barrel adjusters because they only add about 5-10g and makes life a lot easier when it comes time to dial in cable tensions. There is a good thread on the Weight Weenies forum about them... even most of those guys swear by them - and that is the crowd that would remove a chain from a bike if they thought it would save a few grams...


----------



## bcsride

*Supplier Paint Options and Communication*

Can someone provide some information on the supplier paint (Hong Fu, DengFu etc.) options. Comments on Quality appreciated. Also, how do you communicate your design? I have noticed that there appears to be a common theme in the paint designs - white with contoured stripes 
For example 
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=198710&stc=1&d=1272741334
and 
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=198699&stc=1&d=1272712432

Are these the only "designs" available from the suppliers? Were these custom paint you had done locally that just happen to look kind of the same? Is the lettering paint, decals, or decals under clear coat? The "superfrugal" is great - is that "OEM" paint or your decal?

Both those bikes look great, I just want to learn more about the paint options. Though black carbon looks great, I am interested in something with nice shiny paint.


----------



## golfhacker1

For those guys out there who have the FM-028, what head set have you installed instead of the stock ones you can buy with the frame?


----------



## kyroadguy

Has anyone purchased a deep-v carbon wheelset from them? Any impressions/prices?


----------



## Zootv

*Advice*

Since this will be my first carbon bike, I’m trying to do as much research as I can and appreciate everyone’s photos, advice and tech info like Waldo provided. Found a good website that has a lot geometry info on the frames we have been discussing (http://cheapcarbonframes.com) . Maybe someone on this forum runs it.

I used to race a little in the early 90’s until an accident in 96 got me off the bike for many years. I have only ridden on aluminum frames and am still riding my first custom bike I bought back in 1991, a Klien Quantum still in mint condition. Even though it’s a downtube 7 speed, I still out sprint a lot of guys younger than me but feel a slight disadvantage when I’m up against my fellow racing buddies. I really want to get back into racing, not to try and relive my youth but for the fun of it. But it isn’t legal anymore do to the original scott drop areo bars.

I’ve tested Scotts, Cervelos, Treks, Giants, Felts, Pinerralos, ect. The Scott Addict R1 is probably the closest match to the stiffness of my Klien. How stiff are the FM015, FM028 or the FM027? I guess that depends on the carbon used. Also I was really disappointed in most companies mentioned as far as customization go, especially paint. You used to be able to get manufactures to custom paint your bike frames pretty easily, but most companies want you to shell out $10K for a bike and you get it how it comes. WTF?

I haven’t seem an FM027 built out, does anyone have one? I am leaning towards a FM027, but might get the FM015 as it is a little more classic looking. Also anyone use velocolour in Canada for paint jobs?

Thanks


----------



## MooseDawg

*Best ISP mast head clamp*



rozzer32 said:


> After reading the comments on here I have decided against going for a frame with an ISP because of the clamp weight and it being a bigger size.



I went with the ISP but use the MUCH lighter and better Woodman mast head clamp. Took some work on my part (please see my previous post in this thread on this issue), but it works perfectly and only weighs 94g.


----------



## aikendrum

*FM015 build details and notes......*

Final Build List is as follows;

1x HF-FM015 Carbon Frame (3K Black Matte Finish)
1 x HF-FK007 Carbon Fork to match FM015 frame
1 x HF-HB003 Carbon Drop Handlebars - Aero styling. 
1x SRAM 2010 Force Groupset 175mm Crank, 11-23
1 x Hope Single Bolt Seat Post Clamp Black 34.9 ---> to be replaced with 1 x Thomson Seat Collar Black 31.8
1 x Ritchey Pro Carbon Matrix 4-Axis 44 Oversized Stem Carbon 110mm
1 x Fizik MicroTex Bar Tape Black
1 x Ritchey Pro Carbon Seat Post Carbon (Red Logo) 300 x 31.6
1 x Ritchey Pro Biomax Saddle Black (Red Logo)
1 x SRAM S27AL Competition Clincher Wheelset Black SRAM Freehub
2 x Continental Grand Prix SuperSonic Road Tyre 700x23 (150g each!)
1 x Zefal Tyre Liners for MTB, Road and Hybrid Bikes Grey
2 x Continental Quality Road Inner Tube Presta 42mm 700x18-25
Pedals will be Speedplay Zeros.


Notes:
The "SRAM GXP Bottom Bracket Cup Set English Thread" which comes as part of the SRAM Force Groupset is as soft as butter (for want of another word!) be super careful when applying torque to the cup ensuring your wrench does not slip off causing cosmetic damage in the least or mechanical in the worst case. I had this issue and even though it didn't affect the performance I replaced it with a new Cup Set ~ AUD$29.13 from Wiggle


Hongfu sell a Seatpost (1 xHF-SP003 $38.00) - it appears their is no adjustment for the pitch - mine was pitched at about 5-10deg to the horizontal - no good I simply could not use it - no great loss at US$38 but just be warned.


The HF-SPC001 seat post clamp works well but is heavy and can be opened by hand - I initially replaced this with a Hope clamp as above however this is made of a very weak aluminium and I ended up splitting the bolt - Hope sent me a replacement no questions asked and I am currently using it but would like to replace it with the more robust Thomson Seat Collar.


I used the Neco headset from Hongfu, so far so good - I didn't have too many issues installing it but used a different technique (Not PVC) for installing the race onto the fork. I used a plank of wood - drilled a 2-3inch hole, supported the plank of wood between two chairs, placed the race onto the fork and banged the race down onto the fork through the hole as opposed to the PVC method where you may be putting excess pressure on the fork and will have to support he fork somehow. (comprendez vous?) 


My frame did not come with any cable barrel adjusters for the down tube - I purchased these from my LBS.


No issue with the FM015 Top tube internal cabling however I found the SRAM rubber gromits used between the end of the gear/brake cable and top cap made the brake/grear change spongy - I ended up not installing these - I will have to be vigilant of water ingress but so far so good


Underneath the BB there is a plastic gear guide - this was screwed into place with a factory screw and didn't look very durable - I replaced this with a decent Stainless Steel screw for good measure.


The 3K black Matte finish is better than I expected - it's actually a paint finish ontop of the raw carbon so water et al beads off without worry. I have protected the underside of the down tube with psuedo 3M Helicopter tape - stones flicking off the front tyre made quite a noise however produced no noticable marks - the 3M tape is just for insurance! 


I have now put approx 1000km on my new Carbon HF bike and it's a sweet ride - accelaration is awesome - the SRAM 27AL wheelset combined with light tyres make easy work of hills.

Overall weight is currently 7.4Kg without pedals - once I get the Speedplay zeros I expect it will fall into the 7.6Kg range.


----------



## slabber

Does anyone know what frame Boyd is selling as the B930?

http://boydbikes.com/B930frame.html

His B101 is the FM015... but the B930 comes in an 'XS' that could be suitable for my wife That said, it actually looks like its compact geometry so perhaps not.

He describes it as being stiffer than the FM015 - presumably because of the seat stays. Thoughts?


----------



## nickl75

Zootv said:


> Since this will be my first carbon bike, I’m trying to do as much research as I can and appreciate everyone’s photos, advice and tech info like Waldo provided. Found a good website that has a lot geometry info on the frames we have been discussing (http://cheapcarbonframes.com) . Maybe someone on this forum runs it.


Thanks - glad you find it useful.



Zootv said:


> I haven’t seem an FM027 built out, does anyone have one? I am leaning towards a FM027, but might get the FM015 as it is a little more classic looking. Also anyone use velocolour in Canada for paint jobs?


I haven't seen one yet either. I've only seen a few FM028 builds recently, and I think the FM027 came out around the same time so we might see some soon (I hope).


----------



## WheresWaldo

slabber said:


> Does anyone know what frame Boyd is selling as the B930?
> 
> https://boydbikes.com/B930frame.html
> 
> His B101 is the FM015... but the B930 comes in an 'XS' that could be suitable for my wife That said, it actually looks like its compact geometry so perhaps not.
> 
> He describes it as being stiffer than the FM015 - presumably because of the seat stays. Thoughts?


Slabber, it looks a bit like this one:

https://carbon-products.en.alibaba.com/product/316537500-200176927/integrated_ISP_FM238_BB30.html#productDetailpageLocation

Here is the non-ISP version painted:


----------



## SilentAssassin

I've been seriously thinking about building a carbon bike set up from these chinese sellers, but it seems to me that after going through this thread, and some of the original threads, there are definitely some concerns here:

1.) The integrity of the frames
2.) Short Warranty and Questionable customer support plus the language barrier
3.) Very difficult piecing things together to fit you especially if you haven't done it before.
4.) While the frame designs are similar to name brands they are not exactly the same as the big name brands. There seems to be subtle differences, and while some claim that there won't be a performance difference, I don't know, it's like your taking a risk. While in hindsight I know people are telling themselves they are getting a 2k frame for $500, I think the reality is they are not.

Obviously this route is a lot cheaper to a comparable brand models? But judging from what some of you guys are paying...about $500 for frame fork, etc...you still need a complete grouppo, so add another $1200 for that for rival, then wheels, add another $300-500...I mean in most cases you are still paying largely over 2k...the price of a decent high end road bike on close out at a local lbs, except in that case you get a full lifetime warranty and support. 

I've been thinking that maybe this is just a route for weight weenies to achieve a sub 16lb road bike for extremely cheap, or perhaps a route for people that just like to build. I understand that road bikes in the 15 pound range are probably 5k or more? So maybe in that sense, I can see where you guys are coming from. But maybe for non-weight weenies where a 19lb bike or less is sufficient, this route is probably not worth it correct and makes absolutely no sense.

I don't know, I really weighed the pros and cons of doing this(complete bike build), and it just seems to me, that considering the language barrier of customer service, the difficulty level of piecing and assembling the bike correctly, the unknown origin of the frame design in most cases, and the added fear of the integrity of the frame, it's too much time, effort, and risk involved, plus the fact that your still paying for something with probably no resale value...so plan on keeping it for life if it lasts that long? I just don't see anyone paying money for a non-branded generic carbon frame if you decide you don't like it any more. Plus it seems like their prices have been going up. Anyone else see what I'm saying? I invest $500 in something I plan on keeping it for a while.


----------



## slabber

They’re certainly not for everyone. If you don’t have the skills to assemble the parts and build the bike, these are probably not for you. That said, you could always take everything in to a shop and have them do it for you, but you’ll pay extra for that obviously. 

For myself, I swapped everything over from my old bike. The only things I needed to purchase were the new BB30 cranks and BB, seat clamp, seatpost, and front derailleur clamp. Everything else simply swapped over. I used new cables and housing for everything but the front brake which I reused. I had planned to use my old crankset and bb but I ended up with a BB30 frame instead of English BB.

The frame designs are different from the big brands in the same way the various big brands frames differ from each other. 

Not all of the brand names offer lifetime warranty on their bikes – make sure you check each manufacturer. Many are as low as 2 years as well. For the most part, if you ride a lot, you’ll encounter any defects within that window. If something happens after that, I feel you’re still ahead even if you have to buy a second frame. The lowest cost carbon monocoque frame I can get locally is around $1200, and that’s a discounted club price – my LBS has its own race team and club. 

If you need the support and are content with the stock parts spec on a bike available off the shelf at your LBS, by all means, that’s probably the path you should choose. It’s what most folks do and there’s nothing wrong with that. 

The reason these threads are so active is without magazine reviews and other feedback, we are all trying to gather as much info about the bikes as we can. So far, I am stoked with mine. Very pleased with how it turned out.


----------



## asherstash1

Søren A said:


> Hi
> I try one more time


here is fm027 built up, theres another further back somwhere...


----------



## SilentAssassin

I think I could build it, I know it's not rocket science, but aren't you afraid of what will happen if the frame fails? Also seems like people here got burned on getting the wrong size too. Then there are some that got blemishes and other aesthetic issues with the bike. If that happens it's not worth sending back because then you got to play like over $100 just to ship it back, and then maybe pay to ship you another frame. Just seems like too much can go wrong.


----------



## jkuo

Any frame can fail; just look through the various manufacturer subforums. I'm pretty sure every one of them has someone reporting a frame failure. In regards to the people getting the wrong size, I don't think that's the manufacturer's fault. They have very detailed size charts posted. Finally, just about all carbon frames have blemishes. That's going to be a concern of almost any carbon product bike or not. It's very hard to keep the weave in alignment. 

For the right person, these frames are great. If you're a DIY'er, these frames are probably suited for you. But if you're the type of guy who just prefers to let someone else handle things and doesn't like to put up with mild inconveniences, these frames are probably not the way to go. 



SilentAssassin said:


> I think I could build it, I know it's not rocket science, but aren't you afraid of what will happen if the frame fails? Also seems like people here got burned on getting the wrong size too. Then there are some that got blemishes and other aesthetic issues with the bike. If that happens it's not worth sending back because then you got to play like over $100 just to ship it back, and then maybe pay to ship you another frame. Just seems like too much can go wrong.


----------



## jwcurry83

SilentAssassin said:


> I think I could build it, I know it's not rocket science, but aren't you afraid of what will happen if the frame fails? Also seems like people here got burned on getting the wrong size too. Then there are some that got blemishes and other aesthetic issues with the bike. If that happens it's not worth sending back because then you got to play like over $100 just to ship it back, and then maybe pay to ship you another frame. Just seems like too much can go wrong.


You would have to ship it back and forth 3 times to even come close to what a "brand name" carbon frame would cost you... Yes some people have had problems, but they are few and far between.... look at all the happy people with new pics of their new builds. IMO...live a little...


----------



## WheresWaldo

As it seems that you have thought this completely through I am simply not sure what purpose your 1st ever post has here, but I will try to answer each of your points one by one. I am not expecting to change you mind nor do I want to, only to inform and correct some misinformation.



SilentAssassin said:


> I've been seriously thinking about building a carbon bike set up from these chinese sellers, but it seems to me that after going through this thread, and some of the original threads, there are definitely some concerns:


 1. There should always be concerns, if there wasn't I would say you would be naive and probably someone who gets taken advantage of on a regular basis, so this is a good thing. 
2. The word Chinese is a proper noun and should be capitalized. 



> 1.) The integrity of the frames


 Please remember that most of these companies are simply not interested in the single bike sales and only sell "Sample" bikes to individuals. They do this in an effort to build a relationship that will eventually bring them significant business. They cannot afford to make a bike that is designed to fail. I have seen two respected regional LBS take their relationships with these Chinese builders to the next level, Boyd Bikes in Greenville, SC and BikeNut in San Francisco, CA and their numbers are growing. If you are basing your business on selling these one at a time, you will quickly go out of business, but these "sample" bikes must be of high quality as you will quickly build either a good or bad reputation based on the single example.



> 2.) Short Warranty and Questionable customer support plus the language barrier


Two separate issue you lumped into one. Warranties cost money and require inventory, when you have a single "sample' frame sold at the lowest possible price there is not much room for warranty claims. Despite this reality, most of these factories and/or trading companies will offer some limited warranty anyway. Please note that user error and crashes are not a warranty issue, although some would like to think so.

Language, well what can I say here except that English is not universal, so you will need to get over it. Chinese is spoken by more of the world's population than any other language, maybe you could learn as much Chinese as they are learning English and meet them halfway!



> 3.) Very difficult piecing things together to fit you especially if you haven't done it before.


If you are not mechanical most any LBS will be happy to put together your bike for a fee. If they are not interested, find another LBS. Please don't expect them to do it as a favor or without cost, especially if you deliver them a frame/fork and a box of parts.



> 4.) While the frame designs are similar to name brands they are not exactly the same as the big name brands. There seems to be subtle differences, and while some claim that there won't be a performance difference, I don't know, it's like your taking a risk. While in hindsight I know people are telling themselves they are getting a 2k frame for $500, I think the reality is they are not.


It might be difficult to imagine but not all Chinese manufacturers are intellectual property thieves. They do have engineers and designers too. Some of the smaller 2nd tier brands even rely on them to help build and design bikes. Planet-X comes to mind and they have posted on their blog the process they go through when they build a bike in cooperation with Chinese factories. BH is another who did not want to carry the cost of owning their own molds so their joint designs quickly became available from Rocky Mountain, then from others also.

Unfortunately, bike handling is always something that takes some time, you simply can't jump on a bike and take a short teat ride and say this handling sucks or that one is great. Test rides are predominantly influenced by bike setup and sizing. Bikes with similar geometry will handle similarly so intelligent choices can be made without riding them.



> Obviously this route is a lot cheaper to a comparable brand models? But judging from what some of you guys are paying...about $500 for frame fork, etc...you still need a complete grouppo, so add another $1200 for that for rival, then wheels, add another $300-500...I mean in most cases you are still paying largely over 2k...the price of a decent high end road bike on close out at a local lbs, except in that case you get a full lifetime warranty and support.


All of this is unimportant details even if you spend more than 2k whose business is it other than your own. As far as ride, lets say I want a full Dura-Ace bike, which I do have, I was able to buy a complete DA equipped bike last year for $1500, it was from Bikes Direct and had an aluminum frame. Bought a Pedal Force frame in a group by for $550 (frame + fork) swapped over the parts and for just over $2k I had a full DA 7800 bike. Other than another AL framed bike show me where I could get this even on closeout. I also have a full SRAM Red that cost a bit more, circa $2500 that rides every bit as nice as my friends full Red Tarmac, which he bought on closeout for $5K, after all it was $8500 MSRP. I took that $4K-5K I saved between the two bikes and invested it in a custom carbon tandem. So basically for the same closeout price he paid at the LBS I was able to buy two bikes with similar component groups.

Lifetime warranties are for defects and most any defect will show almost immediately. most of the other times you will be offered a reduced price replacement frame. Well with the same monies I could have purchased multiple frames and self-warrantied.

One last comment about price, even though you can buy a very good bike on closeout for the price you might invest in these builds, it certainly not at the top end. Even second tier bikes are expensive at the top end. So if you are happy with Rival or Ultegra then spend the same as we do and buy from your LBS.



> I've been thinking that maybe this is just a route for weight weenies to achieve a sub 16lb road bike for extremely cheap, or perhaps a route for people that just like to build. I understand that road bikes in the 15 pound range are probably 5k or more? So maybe in that sense, I can see where you guys are coming from. But maybe for non-weight weenies where a 19lb bike or less is sufficient, this route is probably not worth it correct and makes absolutely no sense.


That is certainly one possible motive for building this way. If you are interested in saving weight the frame is a significant investment and if you can save 50-100% of the cost it does allow some freedom to spend money in other areas to save even more. Example might be instead of FSA bars you buy a Zipp bar and save 80 grams, a Red or DA cassette instead of Ultegra/105, etc. Once you get into the $2000 plus range, weight is a factor for every purchaser, maybe not to the same extent but it still is a factor. Why would you go into a local shop and say "I want a $2K bike but weight doesn't matter, give me the heaviest bike you have, it'll be a better workout!" The reality is you simply wouldn't.



> I don't know, I really weighed the pros and cons of doing this(complete bike build), and it just seems to me, that considering the language barrier of customer service, the difficulty level of piecing and assembling the bike correctly, the unknown origin of the frame design in most cases, and the added fear of the integrity of the frame, it's too much time, effort, and risk involved, plus the fact that your still paying for something with probably no resale value...so plan on keeping it for life if it lasts that long? I just don't see anyone paying money for a non-branded generic carbon frame if you decide you don't like it any more. Plus it seems like their prices have been going up. Anyone else see what I'm saying? I invest $500 in something I plan on keeping it for a while.


Good luck to you and I hope that you are happy with whatever decision you finally make.


----------



## steveeboy

I just wanted to say that I was pretty resigned to the fact that I would NEVER be able to avoid another road bike given the crazy prices these days.

Been riding a nice CAAD 5 'dale from 2001 with ultegra/105/dura ace 9 spd parts that I have scrounged over the years.

While in college Planet X sponsored our team and we worked with them and China to develop their track frames (the first-generation aluminum ones). That process was more involved than ordering up one of these frames, but we still ended up with a killer deal--and I still ride that frame today.

This thread provides hope and I now realize I can upgrade the frame when I scrape a little cash together.

I appreciate all the info and motivation these threads have provided and I will be ordering one of these frames as soon as I scrape up the cash...


----------



## coachstevo

well...i finally got my fm28 built out, and the fit sussed, and took it for its first real ride yesterday. 40 miles 6500 vertical...
I swapped all the parts from my FM001 (which had a few thousand miles on it). My first impressions are:
Smoother - less road noise transmitted, on the nasty bumpy flat we traversed i ended up with slightly higher avg speed for same effort- i'd attribute to a smoother ride
tracks true - i can't comment on the descending yet, as i'm not quite used to how it handles- definitely less chatter than my FM001 on teh front end though
Climbs fine - i saw some reports that folks thought the bike didn't climb quite as nice, but i can't see the difference (my times on the three climbs were essentially the same for same effort).

will post pics over weekend


----------



## Zootv

I couldn’t agree more with Waldo, well said. But I respect where SilentAssain is coming from. I too was very very reluctant to go the china frame route. But after reading threads like these and others I got over my fear and put behind any reservations I had. I just can’t stomach spending $4-5K on a frame and even a Dogma only has 3 yr warranty. 

Has anyone seen a real photograph of this frame? 

http://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/cp_detail.php?id=88&nowmenuid=12&cpath=0009:&catid=0

Since I’m most used to riding aluminum, this frame would allow me to have an aluminum rear fork and a aluminum front fork. Kind of like a BMC racemaster. Or should I just bite the bullet and go full carbon?


----------



## WheresWaldo

Zootv said:


> I couldn’t agree more with Waldo, well said. But I respect where SilentAssain is coming from. I too was very very reluctant to go the china frame route. But after reading threads like these and others I got over my fear and put behind any reservations I had. I just can’t stomach spending $4-5K on a frame and even a Dogma only has 3 yr warranty.
> 
> Has anyone seen a real photograph of this frame?
> 
> http://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/cp_detail.php?id=88&nowmenuid=12&cpath=0009:&catid=0
> 
> Since I’m most used to riding aluminum, this frame would allow me to have an aluminum rear fork and a aluminum front fork. Kind of like a BMC racemaster. Or should I just bite the bullet and go full carbon?


Bite hard and go full carbon, you won't go back.


----------



## jborg28

Is it realistic compare to $2-$6K frame and say it's a deal? What about compared to a brand new older frame like a 2007 Ridley Orion on Ebay for $699 with paint and brand? As the branded bikes get better to the Frames really get better? And where would these Chinese Frames sit in terms of those levels? Thanks


----------



## nickl75

Zootv said:


> Since I’m most used to riding aluminum, this frame would allow me to have an aluminum rear fork and a aluminum front fork. Kind of like a BMC racemaster. Or should I just bite the bullet and go full carbon?


I love BMC's (I ride one), but I don't understand the logic behind an AL backend. 

Carbon Fiber is just so much more tunable on the narrow diameter tubes, which makes it possible to get a backend that is stiff but still absorbs buzz from the road. It's pretty difficult to do the same in Aluminum.

There's a good reason why almost all forks are carbon, and why even some titanium bikes have a carbon rear end.

I think bikes with an Aluminum main triangle and a carbon rear triangle make a lot more sense.


----------



## intence

jborg28 said:


> Is it realistic compare to $2-$6K frame and say it's a deal? What about compared to a brand new older frame like a 2007 Ridley Orion on Ebay for $699 with paint and brand? As the branded bikes get better to the Frames really get better? And where would these Chinese Frames sit in terms of those levels? Thanks


I was debating this, and I think it really depends what you find on eBay and who you buy it from. Is a $699 used carbon frame a better buy if it's several years old and may have potential issues? What about a $699 brand new frame that appears to be a leftover from last year from a reputable seller?

For me personally I went the eBay route. Until we know if these sellers based out of China are small factories doing very small runs, or if they're really producing for the big names, i'm not sure if i'm willing to take the risk. If it was known that all of the mentioned sellers were buying their frames from one or two factories i'd be fine with it. What we don't know is if they're making these in-house, what grade of fiber they're using, type of resin, etc. If they're just buying molds and building in-house, then there must be competition between the factories, and i'd be interested to know where they're cutting costs.

I still think the China frames are a great bargain though, and it's hard to go wrong. If you prefer something pre-painted, keep checking eBay. I managed to score a very nice deal on a brand new Fuji frame (there are lots on there right now), which made it more attractive than going the China-Direct route, however if I didn't find a brand-new frame at a price I was comfortable with, the China route would have been a viable choice.


----------



## tron

jeffxxxwhiteford said:


> So, posted in the last thread, but here we go again
> 
> 55cm LTK-006 Frame. This is from LT Bike company, but has exactly the same geometry as the fm015. Bought from these guys as they had a shorter lead time for the painted
> 
> 
> Very close to purchasing from them and I am looking at the same size frame. Would you mind telling me your height and what size frame you typically ride so I can make sure that this is the size I need?


----------



## WheresWaldo

tron,

all the specs of a 55cm were posted in my explanation of STACK and REACH on the page preceding this one. A little search would find them for you, search is your friend. I am 70" and ride a 54-56cm

TT on 55cm is 548.5mm


----------



## tron

WheresWaldo said:


> tron,
> 
> all the specs of a 55cm were posted in my explanation of STACK and REACH on the page preceding this one. A little search would find them for you, search is your friend. I am 70" and ride a 54-56cm
> 
> TT on 55cm is 548.5mm


Yeah I saw that that's I was asking that one poster with real world experience since I am thinking of the same frame. I should have just pmd him directly


----------



## SilentAssassin

intence said:


> I was debating this, and I think it really depends what you find on eBay and who you buy it from. Is a $699 used carbon frame a better buy if it's several years old and may have potential issues? What about a $699 brand new frame that appears to be a leftover from last year from a reputable seller?
> 
> For me personally I went the eBay route. Until we know if these sellers based out of China are small factories doing very small runs, or if they're really producing for the big names, i'm not sure if i'm willing to take the risk. If it was known that all of the mentioned sellers were buying their frames from one or two factories i'd be fine with it. What we don't know is if they're making these in-house, what grade of fiber they're using, type of resin, etc. If they're just buying molds and building in-house, then there must be competition between the factories, and i'd be interested to know where they're cutting costs.
> 
> I still think the China frames are a great bargain though, and it's hard to go wrong. If you prefer something pre-painted, keep checking eBay. I managed to score a very nice deal on a brand new Fuji frame (there are lots on there right now), which made it more attractive than going the China-Direct route, however if I didn't find a brand-new frame at a price I was comfortable with, the China route would have been a viable choice.


At the same time I don't think these china sellers are cutting costs that will effect quality, because I'm sure they know that people will stop buying from them if their frames fall apart or crack for no reason. Word of mouth gets around. And it seems like their main way of marketing is word of mouth on a forum like this.

I am a skeptic, but judging by some of the responses here, it seems like if you know what to order, and which frames the people from this thread recommend, it's a good deal. But at the same time it's kind of a bad deal, since you aren't supporting companies at home, your basically only supporting the people that these companies are outsourcing to.

So essentially the big companies are losing business, while the outsourced manafacturing companies rake in the profits...which basically is Karma in a sense. Why pay for a 6k road bike from a company that outsources to China/Taiwan and buy frames for what, $50 per? I'd rather get something that I pay for...not pay for a company that outsources their products to China/Taiwan any way. By supporting these big companies you actually are supporting outsourcing.

So the way I look at is buying generic frames from these china sellers is a good idea, so long as their quality holds up. It'll help to cut profits from Trek, Specialized, etc. and it might even convince them to stop outsourcing their work. Doubt it but hey, GM still makes cars here, so you never know.


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

Here you got my FM28 size 56cm in matt 3k completely finished.

Cheers!


----------



## gandini

That's a nice looking bike! Very stealthy except for the wheels of course (red tires?) Hope you enjoy riding it.


----------



## rruff

I like your FM028!

Looks like I'm going to need a frame pretty soon, since I was hit by a truck a couple days ago and my Pedal Force ZX3 is busted. I was wondering if anyone could help me with your knowledge or thoughts on this frame. I'm thinking the 54, non-integrated, standard BB, 

1) Best place to buy (good price and service and fast shipping)
2) How long from order to your door?
3) Weight... I know that some of the websites have numbers, but I was hoping for a verified weight.
4) Finish... do you think the matte is easier to keep looking good? 

Thanks...


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

To be honnest I tink it's easier to go 3k with clear coat for keepin the bike lookin good. It's my first bike in Matte...so I don't have the experience of how clean you can keep the bike...but I think it will be no problem.

There is no "best" place because there only one place where they are selling this frame... and that is at DengFu. http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/ Just click "contact suplier" and there you go. Normally they have matt black and clear coat already in stock for the 56cm. Matt 3k need like 2 more weeks xtra.

grts :thumbsup:


----------



## kmancrx

So I just got my frame in from bicycle maniac on ebay. The frame is flawless and the clearcoat looks great. It is super light as well. Unfortunately the seller forgot to send the headset and seatpost clamp, so I will not be able to build it up until next weekend. I will post more pics as soon as I build it up. 

After putting a rear wheel on the frame I noticed that looked like the frame might not be true in rear dropout. It looks like the drive side puts the wheel spindle higher than the non drive side. Will this be a problem? I guess I will have to wait and see if the bike tracks true or not. Damn hope I did not get a lemon. I may have to file down one of the dropouts to get it straight.


----------



## Italianrider76

Hey Dogg...looks killer. Would you consider the geometry of the FM028 more relaxed and comfort inspired rather than agressive?


----------



## ultraman6970

Hey im new in here... times are getting tough so probably i'll change my two bikes for one of this asian frames. Well the two i have are made in asia anyways.

My question is this one... anybody have gotten the pinarello version of the RFM101?? I mean... as somebody said, why pay 4ks if 400 bucks does the same? There is an extra charge or something?

Regarding paint jobs, these companies does simple jobs? 2 colors or with some you can go at least with your own design and stufff? Just asking because if someting made in the factory can go for 100 bucks more is way cheaper than 500 bucks or more in the house you know.

THanks.


----------



## ultraman6970

kman did you check if your wheels are actually 100% in the middle of the hub?

Got the same problem going from a kuota to a bmc, after checking with the wheel gauge tool thing and i saw my rear wheel was off the center like 3 mm, I re trued the rear wheel, done!


----------



## fab4

I had an RFM101 frameset painted like the Prince and I'm telling there's not much difference when compared to the real thing. From the tube shape to the paint job it's almost identical. Check out the pic.


----------



## ultraman6970

Fab, how much extra did you pay to get that paint scheme?


----------



## config

fab4 said:


> I had an RFM101 frameset painted like the Prince and I'm telling there's not much difference when compared to the real thing. From the tube shape to the paint job it's almost identical. Check out the pic.


That is a nice frame but it is the exact pic of the one earlier in the thread (pg 6). Why don't you post a picture of your frame?


----------



## kmancrx

ultraman6970 said:


> kman did you check if your wheels are actually 100% in the middle of the hub?
> 
> Got the same problem going from a kuota to a bmc, after checking with the wheel gauge tool thing and i saw my rear wheel was off the center like 3 mm, I re trued the rear wheel, done!



I tried 3 different wheels and they all were higher on the drive side. I think once I get it built up I will be able to file down the non drive dropout (which is the side that the wheel leans). I will put up some pics when I find my camera cable (the ones before were from my cell phone).


----------



## rozzer32

From looking about I think you can only get the pinarello copy from greatkeenbike.com and they only show sizes 46 and 56


----------



## ultraman6970

config said:


> That is a nice frame but it is the exact pic of the one earlier in the thread (pg 6). Why don't you post a picture of your frame?


Probably because he said.. he had one. not that actually has it 

Wonder how much money he got for it


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

Italianrider76 said:


> Hey Dogg...looks killer. Would you consider the geometry of the FM028 more relaxed and comfort inspired rather than agressive?



To be honnest...I'm have a pretty comfort position on the bike. It's the same position I had was I was a pro and it feels good. anyway...agressive position is for track bikes...not for roadies. 

But it's not the kind of frame you gonna get deep with the handlebars. The front without headset is already 17cm...while most of them new frames it"s more or less like 15/16cm... So if you want to go agressive..you are going to put the stem on reversed.


----------



## ultraman6970

They have a bianchi also that looks just like the real stuff 

Anybody is actually using the carbon rims these people is selling?


----------



## rruff

BlackDoggystyle said:


> So if you want to go aggressive..you are going to put the stem on reversed.


And/or get a smaller frame. I like a lot of drop and at 6ft, I'd go with the 54, no spacers, and a 130mm stem... flipped down of course. 

It isn't hard to make these bikes fit, and the geometry seems quite similar across the models. The first thing to look at is headtube length, which controls the stack (or height). Reach can be easily adjusted with the stem length, and the setback on your saddle can be adjusted by sliding it on the rails. There isn't much to worry about unless you have odd proportions.


----------



## kmancrx

Here are some pics of the wheel sitting in the dropouts. I showed the problem to my bike mechanic this morning. He said I could probably file down the dropout on the non drive side to get it even. 

I did a Google search and I found a thread of someone filing their dropout to get a wheel aligned. For about every 4-5mm of discrepancy you should file 1mm at the dropout. I will go slow though. 

If you look, the brake bolt cutout is a bit off center as well. 

Still not thrilled that this frame is not square.

Also the seller did not inform me that the headset that I ordered was not the correct one. He did not send anything and said that the correct headset would not be available for 20 days. Poor communication. He also forgot to send the seat post clamp and extra derailleur hangers. He also sent an 80mm stem instead of a 90mm stem which I ordered. Which is not too big of a deal because I have a 90mm stem on my old bike from which I am transferring components. I may move up to a 100mm stem in a bit.


----------



## stevesbike

send it back - that's the worst workmanship I've seen on a carbon frame - how a brake hole can be that off center is crazy.


----------



## pennyweight

What did this build end up weighing? And what depth wheels are you running? Have you managed to get more recent (higher quality) photos? I love your build and as they say..."impersonation is the highest form of flattery..." so I will be building a close replica in the near future. Thanks, Z


----------



## kmancrx

stevesbike said:


> send it back - that's the worst workmanship I've seen on a carbon frame - how a brake hole can be that off center is crazy.



I am not sure.

I am contemplating sending it back. But It just seems like a hassle. $50-100 for shipping. Then another 2-3 weeks before I get another frame.


----------



## stevesbike

a frame with that glaring of a defect is likely going to give you problems down the line - I would send it back and buy a different frame from another vendor. There's something really off on how that frame got made. That misalignment is terrible and the brake hole is off by what looks like at 3-4 mm. Before you start filing I'd seriously consider just sending it back. Shipping costs are small in the scheme of a troublesome frame


----------



## slabber

kmancrx said:


> Here are some pics of the wheel sitting in the dropouts. I showed the problem to my bike mechanic this morning. He said I could probably file down the dropout on the non drive side to get it even.
> 
> I did a Google search and I found a thread of someone filing their dropout to get a wheel aligned. For about every 4-5mm of discrepancy you should file 1mm at the dropout. I will go slow though.
> 
> If you look, the brake bolt cutout is a bit off center as well.
> 
> Still not thrilled that this frame is not square.
> 
> Also the seller did not inform me that the headset that I ordered was not the correct one. He did not send anything and said that the correct headset would not be available for 20 days. Poor communication. He also forgot to send the seat post clamp and extra derailleur hangers. He also sent an 80mm stem instead of a 90mm stem which I ordered. Which is not too big of a deal because I have a 90mm stem on my old bike from which I am transferring components. I may move up to a 100mm stem in a bit.


What does the seller have to say about the defective frame? Are you responsible for the cost to ship back? 

The stem discrepancy is pretty weak too... I'd give neutral feedback at best on ebay unless the seller really steps up trying to improve the situation.


----------



## kmancrx

slabber said:


> What does the seller have to say about the defective frame? Are you responsible for the cost to ship back?
> 
> The stem discrepancy is pretty weak too... I'd give neutral feedback at best on ebay unless the seller really steps up trying to improve the situation.



Not sure yet. Seller will probably get back to me tomorrow morning. BTW this guy's name is bicycle_maniac. I think it is the same seller as bicycle_99.


----------



## kmancrx

stevesbike said:


> a frame with that glaring of a defect is likely going to give you problems down the line - I would send it back and buy a different frame from another vendor. There's something really off on how that frame got made. That misalignment is terrible and the brake hole is off by what looks like at 3-4 mm. Before you start filing I'd seriously consider just sending it back. Shipping costs are small in the scheme of a troublesome frame



I think the misalignment of the wheel is only because one of the dropouts is not "cut out" enough to make it even. 

I could just ride it till it dies then get a new one. Only $300 for a new frame.:mad2:


----------



## slabber

kmancrx said:


> Not sure yet. Seller will probably get back to me tomorrow morning. BTW this guy's name is bicycle_maniac. I think it is the same seller as bicycle_99.


You need to be really exact on ebay seller IDs. 

The second one is invalid. The first has nothing for sale currently.


----------



## stevesbike

it's only $300 right now - I'd be worried about a failure from a bike that has such defects (e.g., how safe is the fork?). Also, since the rear brake is so off center, your braking will be affected and uneven, likely pulsating at speed. If it were me, I'd be looking at the fine print of the ebay/paypal buyer protection and seeing whether it covers the whole cost including shipping etc.


----------



## robpar

BlackDoggystyle said:


> Here you got my FM28 size 56cm in matt 3k completely finished.
> 
> Cheers!


How does it ride?


----------



## kmancrx

Fork is fine. Same as many of you probably have. Ebay seller is funny a week ago he had 900 things for sale. Now he has only 10, as of this morning at least. His stock photos have bicycle99 on them. Paypal probably won't pay for shipping back. 

Brakes could be adjusted.

There was a guy who had cablestop alignment problems. Seller didn't pay for shipping.


----------



## ultraman6970

kman would oyu post a picture of each drop out? If the problem is that it was not sanded (per say) thats not an issue after all.

Do you know ho to use the string method to check frame alignment? I would do that 1st, the file because if the darn frame is not straight no matter what you do the frame will run like puppy dog no matter what you do. Brake hole is not a problem after all in my opinion.


----------



## WheresWaldo

kmancrx said:


> Fork is fine. Same as many of you probably have. Ebay seller is funny a week ago he had 900 things for sale. Now he has only 10, as of this morning at least. His stock photos have bicycle99 on them. Paypal probably won't pay for shipping back.
> 
> Brakes could be adjusted.
> 
> There was a guy who had cablestop alignment problems. Seller didn't pay for shipping.


I know it is a hassle to send stuff back but both those IDs you provided do not have much activity recently. I am pretty sure you won't be hearing from him tomorrow. Likely he has set up with a new ID and you will just need to bite the bullet on this one and chalk it up to a lesson learned.

There is no comparison to the cable stop alignment problem, I know you are now just trying to justify yourself into thinking you did OK and that you can live with the issues. Personally I wouldn't for the reasons already stated as well just on principle. Both bicycle_maniac and bicycle99 have nothing left to sell and probably won't be back on eBay anytime soon.

Seven days after a transaction you can leave neutral or negative feedback, but I would file a claim with PayPal as quickly as possible stating that the frame was not as described and try to get my money back.


----------



## mcrent100

WheresWaldo said:


> I know it is a hassle to send stuff back but both those IDs you provided do not have much activity recently. I am pretty sure you won't be hearing from him tomorrow. Likely he has set up with a new ID and you will just need to bite the bullet on this one and chalk it up to a lesson learned.
> 
> There is no comparison to the cable stop alignment problem, I know you are now just trying to justify yourself into thinking you did OK and that you can live with the issues. Personally I wouldn't for the reasons already stated as well just on principle. Both bicycle_maniac and bicycle99 have nothing left to sell and probably won't be back on eBay anytime soon.
> 
> Seven days after a transaction you can leave neutral or negative feedback, but I would file a claim with PayPal as quickly as possible stating that the frame was not as described and try to get my money back.


I agree with this post.. File a dispute now ...keep all photos and any communication with the seller to show paypal you have tried to resolve the issue in a timely manner...


----------



## kmancrx

WheresWaldo said:


> I know it is a hassle to send stuff back but both those IDs you provided do not have much activity recently. I am pretty sure you won't be hearing from him tomorrow. Likely he has set up with a new ID and you will just need to bite the bullet on this one and chalk it up to a lesson learned.


Just received this email:

do not worry, i will report the case to factory, then email you tomorrow, thx


Best regards


Email address : [email protected]
MSN: [email protected]
Ebay Store: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maniac_bicycle
http://www.flyxii.com

From: @hotmail.com
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Brand New Full carbon (3K Weave) Road Bike Frame & Fork
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 20:51:29 +0000

I put the wheel in the bike. It is NOT centered. Also the brake hole is not centered.


----------



## kmancrx

ultraman6970 said:


> kman would oyu post a picture of each drop out? If the problem is that it was not sanded (per say) thats not an issue after all.
> 
> Do you know ho to use the string method to check frame alignment? I would do that 1st, the file because if the darn frame is not straight no matter what you do the frame will run like puppy dog no matter what you do. Brake hole is not a problem after all in my opinion.



Ultraman, I think I saw this on another thread/forum. Let me know if this is correct. You would measure from say top of the seat tube where the longitudinal groove is down to each dropout, and compare the two values. Ideally they should be the same. Is this correct?


----------



## ultraman6970

yup , yup


----------



## stevesbike

or take it to the mechanic you mentioned before and have him check it with a frame alignment gauge - more accurate and takes measurement at the dropout 
parktools has a page on their site http://www.parktool.com/


----------



## anks86

Does anyone know what size barrel adjusters to use on the downtube of the FM015 frame? I didn't know there are multiple sizes for these. The ones my LBS gave me are too big...


----------



## WheresWaldo

anks86 said:


> Does anyone know what size barrel adjusters to use on the downtube of the FM015 frame? I didn't know there are multiple sizes for these. The ones my LBS gave me are too big...


They should be M5 some BMX ones are M6 also some specific to brakes are also M6, you should be able to order them from any LBS, I believe QBP carries them.

https://aebike.com/product/jagwire-m5-rubber-coated-adjusters-pair-sku-br4059-qc30.htm


----------



## schoey

schoey said:


> Just thought I should let everyone know about my hong-fu experience, I'm seeing a lot of very fast delivery times and I don't want anyone who is in a hurry to get caught out.
> 
> I paid for my frame on the 22nd of April and still don't have it, so 13 weeks? My order wasn't too extreme, BB30 and UD I guess being the non-standard bits, so beware if you're not ordering the norm that you may have to wait a _little_ longer :cryin:


I got an email this morning (nearly 15 weeks) saying that they had found my frame but it had been painted, my order was for a clear coat, so if I just pay them an extra $70USD it will be fine BUT they still won't send the order because now the handle bars aren't in stock.

I have let them know that I won't be paying for their mistake and asked for a refund, so I'll be ~$100 out of pocket and no frame and 15 weeks later I can now start looking for a bike.... again


----------



## config

schoey said:


> I got an email this morning (nearly 15 weeks) saying that they had found my frame but it had been painted, my order was for a clear coat, so if I just pay them an extra $70USD it will be fine BUT they still won't send the order because now the handle bars aren't in stock.
> 
> I have let them know that I won't be paying for their mistake and asked for a refund, so I'll be ~$100 out of pocket and no frame and 15 weeks later I can now start looking for a bike.... again


That's just totally unacceptable. How are they giving you a refund? Some will say, that's the risk of trying to get a good deal.


----------



## SilentAssassin

I am pretty glad I did not go this route yet enlight of the recent issues that's been going on. I'd rather not risk losing $400 I guess if something goes wrong.


----------



## zigzag84

Hi

What is the différence between, the FM015 ISP and FM 028 ISP ??


----------



## robpar

zigzag84 said:


> Hi
> 
> What is the différence between, the FM015 ISP and FM 028 ISP ??


Geo. top tube and head tube. FM015 has a more aggressive geo. The FM028 has a taller head tube... say comparing a 55cm Fm015 and a 56cm FM028, the 015 has a much shorter top tube tube and much shorter headtube. There are diagrams of each bike somewhere in this thread (part 1)


----------



## Zootv

robpar said:


> Geo. top tube and head tube. FM015 has a more aggressive geo. The FM028 has a taller head tube... say comparing a 55cm Fm015 and a 56cm FM028, the 015 has a much shorter top tube tube and much shorter headtube. There are diagrams of each bike somewhere in this thread (part 1)


The geo can easily be found here:
http://cheapcarbonframes.com/

Some say the 15 is more aggressive and the 28 more relaxed, Users who have both have stated the 15 is stiffer. I haven't decided what frame to get myself.


----------



## philischen

Now a question from my side regarding the quality of the FM 015 frames.

I ordered some Chinese frames last year. 3 pieces. 2 where ridden for less then 1000km and then the ISP snapped.

Now I am thinking of giving chinese frames (I know, they all come from over there) a second chance. Specially the FM 015 with ISP or without.

Did anybody experience sudden cracked frame or are these bombproof???


----------



## rruff

robpar said:


> Geo. top tube and head tube. FM015 has a more aggressive geo. The FM028 has a taller head tube... say comparing a 55cm Fm015 and a 56cm FM028, the 015 has a much shorter top tube tube and much shorter headtube. There are diagrams of each bike somewhere in this thread (part 1)


Aggressive? The only substantial difference in the geo is that different models don't line up perfectly... but they both progress through the sizes in a similar way. As you get bigger, the seat tube slackens, the headtube gets steeper and longer, and the wheelbase gets a little longer. If you compare frames with the same headtube length then the other dimensions are very close. 

The 54cm FM028 is nearly identical to the 55cm FM015, for instance... so why are you comparing it to the 56cm FM028?

Pick the head tube length that gives you the stack (height) you want, then see what you'd have to do for stem and seatpost to make the setback and reach fit... done.


----------



## rruff

config said:


> That's just totally unacceptable.


I agree... no reason to put up with this crap when you can get a Planet X for $500.


----------



## SilentAssassin

Kind of scary. This is the nightmare I am talkinga about, misaligned brakes and drop outs misaligned? That's bad stuff. Not sure if I want to take this risk any more.


----------



## ocag

I seem to remember this happening to someone on the previous 2010 thread, then no complaints for 40+ more pages?


----------



## ultraman6970

I noticed in another thread a problem with these Chinese frames where the barrel/cable stop/adjuster thingy is not in the right position. (look at the pictures)

I stole the pictures from another thread ok? 

This is whats going on... If you want to fix a problem like in the picture just use INLINE cable adjusters and done with it. I suspect that the darn frame was not 100% designed to use cable adjusters barrels where the cable stops are right now in a matter of fact in my opinion are way too low or hidden under the down tube, making them hard to reach anyways.

Another fact is that all the new bikes have cable stops but if you put a barrel in there, you find that there is not even threads in there for the barrel.

My advice? go and take a look to trek or specialized new frames, all have inline cable adjusters. Jagwire makes a few models that are pretty cheap also.

There is a jagwire that goes just in the exit of the cable in a sti lever, other ones need to be put just where the cable is almost straight or where the cable curve is pretty light. (campagnolo and sram)

Hope this helps.

Thanks.


----------



## WheresWaldo

ultraman6970 said:


> I noticed in another thread a problem with these Chinese frames where the barrel/cable stop/adjuster thingy is not in the right position. (look at the pictures)
> 
> I stole the pictures from another thread ok?
> 
> This is whats going on... If you want to fix a problem like in the picture just use INLINE cable adjusters and done with it. I suspect that the darn frame was not 100% designed to use cable adjusters barrels where the cable stops are right now in a matter of fact in my opinion are way too low or hidden under the down tube, making them hard to reach anyways.
> 
> Another fact is that all the new bikes have cable stops but if you put a barrel in there, you find that there is not even threads in there for the barrel.
> 
> My advice? go and take a look to trek or specialized new frames, all have inline cable adjusters. Jagwire makes a few models that are pretty cheap also.
> 
> There is a jagwire that goes just in the exit of the cable in a sti lever, other ones need to be put just where the cable is almost straight or where the cable curve is pretty light. (campagnolo and sram)
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Thanks.


One thing at a time there UMan. Those particular stops were made for adjusters, yes one is slightly misaligned but it is totally fixable. When you say, _"I noticed in another thread a problem with *these *Chinese frames..."_ (emphasis added) are you implying that all these frames are a problem?

Inline adjusters or barrel adjusters are not intended to be adjusted while riding, they are a convenience feature for tuning a setup, so it really doesn't matter if they are at the bottom of the down tube. If you need to adjust while riding on a regular basis, reassess your mechanical skills or that of your LBS.

While you are correct that many new bikes do not have threaded stops, this is not true of all of them. Even the big three have bikes that still use barrel adjusters, they have not been made obsolete, yet.

My advice is that before you give advice about what to use or not take a look at an actual frame in question and then make an informed recommendation. In this case the barrel adjusters are the proper call, on some frames it won't be, but here it is.

A side note, I have had nothing but trouble with the Jagwire Rocket Inline adjusters and had one completely fall apart during a ride, I will not recommend them or use them ever again.


----------



## ultraman6970

Ok waldo...


----------



## slabber

That's my frame. I don't think it's a common issue but I posted it so that others were aware. That's what these threads are about/for. As far as I know, it's the only reported instance of this particular problem. 

The stops are threaded and indeed intended to be used with barrel adjusters. I didn't bother fixing the alignment and it's been working fine as-is. I thought I would try it out first and if there was an issue once assembled, I would work at correcting it but it hasn't been necessary.

So far, I've been super pleased overall with the purchase, a non-ISP FM015 from Hong Fu, and would buy another if needed one. 

cheers
Andrew


----------



## nickl75

WheresWaldo said:


> It has come to my attention that many people are having trouble figuring out how to compare these frame sizes and what does or doesn't fit. So I will use the CAD drawing of the FM015 in 55cm as an example of how to do the calculations.
> ...
> 
> My suggestion is to learn these two measurements and use them for comparison, even if you are looking at name brand bikes at your LBS. It will help you not make a mistake in sizing even if a manufacturer decides to size their bikes as XS, S, M, L, XL. You will never have to guess if you are an M or a L ever again.


This was a really useful post. 

I've created a Stack and Reach calculator for the FM015 & FM028 frames: http://cheapcarbonframes.com/2010/08/frame-sizing-calculator/

As far as I can see it's accurate, but if anyone notices any problems please let me know!


----------



## tarzan13

config said:


> That's just totally unacceptable. How are they giving you a refund? Some will say, that's the risk of trying to get a good deal.


Reality is that a lot of these Asian suppliers don't understand consumer protection laws.
under uk distance selling regulations, you could have simply said to the manufacturer that item was faulty, support it with some photos and that you'd make it available for collection - 100% within your rights and he'd have to provide a refund immediately.


----------



## tarzan13

config said:


> That's just totally unacceptable. How are they giving you a refund? Some will say, that's the risk of trying to get a good deal.


Same here, totally unacceptable. was also considering ordering a frame but need to think 2x. This error could have lost them some business.


----------



## nickl75

tarzan13 said:


> Reality is that a lot of these Asian suppliers don't understand consumer protection laws.
> under uk distance selling regulations, you could have simply said to the manufacturer that item was faulty, support it with some photos and that you'd make it available for collection - 100% within your rights and he'd have to provide a refund immediately.


Yeah, good luck with that.  

OTOH, most of the major sellers seem to be pretty good at handling problems.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

WheresWaldo said:


> yes one is slightly misaligned but it is totally fixable. .



I remember reading about this problem and don't remember any "totally fixable" solutions being offered. How would you fix it?


----------



## XavierM

philischen said:


> Now a question from my side regarding the quality of the FM 015 frames.
> 
> I ordered some Chinese frames last year. 3 pieces. 2 where ridden for less then 1000km and then the ISP snapped.
> 
> Now I am thinking of giving chinese frames (I know, they all come from over there) a second chance. Specially the FM 015 with ISP or without.
> 
> Did anybody experience sudden cracked frame or are these bombproof???



Searched the thread and I couldn't find any real consensus on Non-ISP vs. ISP for these frames! Any thoughts out there???


----------



## slabber

ClarkinHawaii said:


> I remember reading about this problem and don't remember any "totally fixable" solutions being offered. How would you fix it?



Simplest way to fix it is to drill out one of the rivets on the the cable stop, realign it after reaming out the hole slightly in the right direction, eg not simply enlarging the hole but more slotting it, and pop in a new rivet.


----------



## XavierM

Searched the thread and I couldn't find any real consensus on Non-ISP vs. ISP for these frames! Any thoughts out there???


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

slabber said:


> Simplest way to fix it is to drill out one of the rivets on the the cable stop, realign it after reaming out the hole slightly in the right direction, eg not simply enlarging the hole but more slotting it, and pop in a new rivet.


OK, I'm really in the dark with carbon--you can just drill holes in it like wood or something without weakening the structure?

Also, after you've used your drill to create the slot, and attached a new rivet, what do you fill the hole (slot) with and how tricky is it to use?


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

XavierM said:


> Searched the thread and I couldn't find any real consensus on Non-ISP vs. ISP for these frames! Any thoughts out there???


I opted for traditional seat post since it gives me more flexibility, not only for myself but for when i may want to sell the frame in the future.


----------



## philischen

ClarkinHawaii said:


> I opted for traditional seat post since it gives me more flexibility, not only for myself but for when i may want to sell the frame in the future.



Sure... But is there a problem with the ISP FM015 at all. Didn't read anything. Till now. And I don't want to experience a broken ISP again if i go for a FM 015 ISP.

So please. Anybody has bad news about breaking FM015, please let me know. Otherwise, I will give chinese frames a second chance.


----------



## slabber

ClarkinHawaii said:


> OK, I'm really in the dark with carbon--you can just drill holes in it like wood or something without weakening the structure?
> 
> Also, after you've used your drill to create the slot, and attached a new rivet, what do you fill the hole (slot) with and how tricky is it to use?


I was a little surprised too when I heard you can just drill away. (Within reason though of course.) 

The rivet will fill the hole again and you'd probably never know that any modification had been done. All that would be required is a slight shift in one direction which should only require a few millimeters of 'slotting'. Once you pop in the new rivet, it'll get held in place and you shouldn't see the hole underneath at all.


----------



## lobo

XavierM said:


> Searched the thread and I couldn't find any real consensus on Non-ISP vs. ISP for these frames! Any thoughts out there???


Non-ISP is simply most durable, seat post tube works as "reinforcement" of the seat tube.I've heard there were some problems with ISP frames: breaking isp.


----------



## XavierM

Pics of bikes like this is what got me started on the whole ISP idea on the FM-015 but if there are issues with the seatpost breaking then it would make since to get a non-ISP frame?


----------



## philischen

Just for the record. In my case, some OTHER ISP frames broke NOT the FM 015. 

But if there are some FM 015s with broken ISPs I want to know before the whole game starts over again for me.


----------



## XavierM

BlackDoggystyle said:


> Here you got my FM28 size 56cm in matt 3k completely finished.
> 
> Cheers!


Has anyone built this bike with ISP?

BTW very nice looking bike!!


----------



## XavierM

Has anyone built up the FM028 ISP frame yet? We have seen the FM028 non-ISP but how about with the ISP???










BTW-Nice Ride!


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

I normally would go for ISP but a friend (C. Horner...you all know him right?  ) told me not to...

1.You want to sell the frame afterwards for any reason it's difficult to sell if you cut of shorter than it has to be for the wanabe buyer.

2. Even with expensive branded bikes the ISP brakes from time to time... Even a normal carbon seatpost can brake if you tighten it to much but no worries in changing that. And like said before... with non-ISP frames the seatpost reïnforces the seattube. If you look at the Pro peloton..how many ISP frames do you see?

But I think you can cut of the ISP until the normal seattube height and then "dremel" a layer (or 2) from top so you can fit a seatclamp...and make a non-isp from an ISP... in the hope that you didn't brake the ISP and it cracked futher down the seattube.

btw...did 155 miles with the FM28 in the 4 days I got it... did some pavés. Oude kwaremont, Paddestraat and some other pavé routes in Flanders and I have to say this frame feels great! As a pro I did some Paris-Roubaix's too so I know how to ride on the pavés and I really don't worrie at all to go on the pavés with this bike!


----------



## cientortas

Is it just me or does the FM28 frame look similar to the 4 series Trek Madone?

https://www.trekbikes.com/images/bikes/2010/xl/madone45_blackblue.jpg


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

I really think they just pirate the molds and then anybody can start a "factory" with that mold and produce an identical (in appearance and dimensions) frame. Whether these frames are equivalent in durability and workmanship of course depends on the individual using the mold and the carbon stuff they use. I notice Jenny's is touted as "Toray" carbon--a brand name product.


----------



## schoey

An update on my _saga_  

Jenny has now said that they will refund minus the 4% :mad2: 

Hopefully this works??
_
Jenny,

Paypal DOES NOT take 4% when I pay, it takes any commission only when you withdraw, as you've never had my order in stock ready to deliver I can't see why my money would be withdrawn? You've held my money for a very long time, holding time on MY money costs ME money, it is only me who has been inconvenienced by this, there has been NO cost to you what so ever.

I will expect a full refund.

Thank you _

The only worry is that they'll just keep all of my money?? No paypal protection for me now :cryin: 

I have been an ideal customer, initial contact was concise, no silly questions, payment was made within hours of her email being sent, and all contact since has been courteous. If they can't keep me happy then they have big issues. * I would suggest that people steer clear*, I'm in an industry where I completely understand the initial issue, manufacturing times can be hard to predict but it is when things do stuff up that the true test arises and hong fu have failed miserably.


----------



## config

schoey said:


> An update on my _saga_
> 
> Jenny has now said that they will refund minus the 4% :mad2:
> 
> Hopefully this works??
> _
> Jenny,
> 
> Paypal DOES NOT take 4% when I pay, it takes any commission only when you withdraw, as you've never had my order in stock ready to deliver I can't see why my money would be withdrawn? You've held my money for a very long time, holding time on MY money costs ME money, it is only me who has been inconvenienced by this, there has been NO cost to you what so ever.
> 
> I will expect a full refund.
> 
> Thank you _
> 
> The only worry is that they'll just keep all of my money?? No paypal protection for me now :cryin:
> 
> I have been an ideal customer, initial contact was concise, no silly questions, payment was made within hours of her email being sent, and all contact since has been courteous. If they can't keep me happy then they have big issues. * I would suggest that people steer clear*, I'm in an industry where I completely understand the initial issue, manufacturing times can be hard to predict but it is when things do stuff up that the true test arises and hong fu have failed miserably.


There goes business from Hungfu/Efunghu from this forum anyways. Please keep us posted so everyone knows of the outcome. Good luck.


----------



## XavierM

ClarkinHawaii said:


> I really think they just pirate the molds and then anybody can start a "factory" with that mold and produce an identical (in appearance and dimensions) frame. Whether these frames are equivalent in durability and workmanship of course depends on the individual using the mold and the carbon stuff they use. I notice Jenny's is touted as "Toray" carbon--a brand name product.



TORAY Carbon:

http://www.toraycfa.com/


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

schoey said:


> An update on my _saga_
> 
> Jenny has now said that they will refund minus the 4% :mad2:
> 
> Hopefully this works??
> _
> Jenny,
> 
> Paypal DOES NOT take 4% when I pay, it takes any commission only when you withdraw, as you've never had my order in stock ready to deliver I can't see why my money would be withdrawn? You've held my money for a very long time, holding time on MY money costs ME money, it is only me who has been inconvenienced by this, there has been NO cost to you what so ever.
> 
> I will expect a full refund.
> 
> Thank you _
> 
> The only worry is that they'll just keep all of my money?? No paypal protection for me now :cryin:
> 
> I have been an ideal customer, initial contact was concise, no silly questions, payment was made within hours of her email being sent, and all contact since has been courteous. If they can't keep me happy then they have big issues. * I would suggest that people steer clear*, I'm in an industry where I completely understand the initial issue, manufacturing times can be hard to predict but it is when things do stuff up that the true test arises and hong fu have failed miserably.



My frameset (painted red) is supposed to ship tomorrow. My first thought was Omigod, he got my paint job! Sure hope not.

Why do you say no Paypal protection for you now?


----------



## schoey

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Why do you say no Paypal protection for you now?


Paypal only covers 45 days from payment, I'm at 100+ days now


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

schoey said:


> Paypal only covers 45 days from payment, I'm at 100+ days now


This doesn't seem right--have you double-checked?

How could you have handled it so as to have the paypal "protection"?


----------



## schoey

ClarkinHawaii said:


> This doesn't seem right--have you double-checked?
> 
> How could you have handled it so as to have the paypal "protection"?


from payapl:
_
File a Dispute/Escalate to a Claim. In order to be considered for the PayPal Buyer Protection Policy, you must first file a dispute online in the PayPal Online Dispute Resolution Centre and attempt to resolve the dispute with the seller. The dispute must be filed within 45 calendar days of the date that you made the payment to the seller. 
_

No way around it as far as I can tell, unless you told hong fu you weren't paying until they were ready to ship?


----------



## coachstevo

XavierM said:


> Has anyone built up the FM028 ISP frame yet? We have seen the FM028 non-ISP but how about with the ISP???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW-Nice Ride!


yep...pics on camera now, coming soon to a forum near you


----------



## dmabraham

I just built one up last week, got exactly one short ride in, and then had to boogie for vacation. Ill get some pics and a more detailed report when I get back. One the one ride it felt stiffer and smoother than my Neuvation F100 frame, but I was also really excited about it.




XavierM said:


> Has anyone built up the FM028 ISP frame yet? We have seen the FM028 non-ISP but how about with the ISP???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW-Nice Ride!


----------



## texascyclist

You guys are having a hard time keeping the facts straight with the ISPs. As far as I know, only one person reported a problem with the ISP and it was not an FM015. 

The comparison with seat posts is a stretch. The seat mast as a significantly larger diameter. Secondly, the clamping area of seat masts caps are much larger than a seat collar. Finally, this area does not see the same bending moment as a seat post. Both are clamps and effectively have stress risers. However, the lack of significant bending moment in the clamp area is an improvement over the standard seat post. The combination of bending and clamping is bad.

For the one failure, was a torque wrench involved? Carbon - torque wrench = risk. I am not saying you have to have one, but you you have to accept the risk and not broadcast.


----------



## schoey

Well I'm out....

_hi,
yes, within 45 days. we can refund the full money to you via paypal.then the 4% paypal will refund to us.
but now already pass 45 days,so we do not can refund directely,need pay you again.
so the 4% paypal already cost it. please check this.
sorry about this.but we have no words.
best regards!
Jenny_

I'm done arguing, I just told her to refund what she could. Up until this point I would have considered trying a different option with them at a later date, not now though. Worst customer service I've ever encountered.

Good luck to every one else, no doubt most will get their orders as requested, but just keep in mind that if you don't hong fu will not be meeting you half way on a solution.


----------



## Zootv

schoey said:


> Well I'm out....


Great. I was trying to contact Jenny about ordering a frame but got no response. Sent 2 emails. I'll try greatkeene instread ...


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

schoey said:


> from payapl:
> _
> File a Dispute/Escalate to a Claim. In order to be considered for the PayPal Buyer Protection Policy, you must first file a dispute online in the PayPal Online Dispute Resolution Centre and attempt to resolve the dispute with the seller. The dispute must be filed within 45 calendar days of the date that you made the payment to the seller.
> _
> 
> No way around it as far as I can tell, unless you told hong fu you weren't paying until they were ready to ship?



Well, now that I know the deal, I will certainly do my best not to get screwed like this in the future. If some company won't start work on a frame until they have full payment, then I guess the only alternative is to buy from somebody who already has stock on hand??? It's a tough question. . . Sorry it had to happen to you, but the alert shoppers on here are taking note of this detail, I'm sure. Thanks for posting it!


----------



## stevesbike

schoey said:


> Well I'm out....
> 
> _hi,
> yes, within 45 days. we can refund the full money to you via paypal.then the 4% paypal will refund to us.
> but now already pass 45 days,so we do not can refund directely,need pay you again.
> so the 4% paypal already cost it. please check this.
> sorry about this.but we have no words.
> best regards!
> Jenny_
> 
> I'm done arguing, I just told her to refund what she could. Up until this point I would have considered trying a different option with them at a later date, not now though. Worst customer service I've ever encountered.
> 
> Good luck to every one else, no doubt most will get their orders as requested, but just keep in mind that if you don't hong fu will not be meeting you half way on a solution.


sometimes it's easier just taking it and moving on - it's only about $16 anyway, right? Not worth the + blood pressure...


----------



## schoey

stevesbike said:


> sometimes it's easier just taking it and moving on - it's only about $16 anyway, right? Not worth the + blood pressure...


yep, I agree, just thought I'd try one email to that effect, she has stuck to her guns so I've dropped it and just asked for a refund minus the 4%, it actually ends up ~$30usd for my order as I had frame/bars/bottle cages and shipping that the 4% went on.

I'm not too stressed out about it all, I've had quite a few very good dealings with buying OS so I can handle it. I just wanted to give the other side of the story here in case someone without the spare $$ floating around was going to buy.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

schoey said:


> yep, I agree, just thought I'd try one email to that effect, she has stuck to her guns so I've dropped it and just asked for a refund minus the 4%, it actually ends up ~$30usd for my order as I had frame/bars/bottle cages and shipping that the 4% went on.
> 
> I'm not too stressed out about it all, I've had quite a few very good dealings with buying OS so I can handle it. I just wanted to give the other side of the story here in case someone without the spare $$ floating around was going to buy.


It's very bad business practice--not only is it not morally right, but it's going to cost them thousands $$ of lost income from people who change their mind about buying from jenny when they read this--talk about "penny wise and pound foolish". I can't help but wonder what is going on in somebody's mind when they shoot themselves in the foot like this . . .


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

I just saw a used Pinarello Prince for sale--$5000. Was reminded of the guy on here that had his generic frame painted up that way.

How does a prospective buyer on ebay or craigslist know whether he's getting the real thing or a knockoff? No frame serial numbers on carbon, are there?


----------



## schoey

wow, another update..

<strike>Seems they really don't like money going in the wrong direction, she's now telling me it will cost me 8% because it costs them 4% to receive and 4% to send money, it's still not worth arguing so I've requested a refund AGAIN (it's probably the 4-5th email I've sent clearly stating that it was time for a refund!)

I will be talking with my bank this afternoon regarding a charge back on the credit card, just to make them earn their 8%....</strike>

Oops, I'll admit a mistake here on my part (or maybe blame it on the language barrier :lol Jenny wasn't saying she would charge an extra 4% she was saying it would cost me an extra 4%, so after the last email she has finally refunded the initial amount minus 4%.

I'll live with the 4% loss and keep the banks out of it.


----------



## slabber

schoey said:


> wow, another update..
> 
> Seems they really don't like money going in the wrong direction, she's now telling me it will cost me 8% because it costs them 4% to receive and 4% to send money, it's still not worth arguing so I've requested a refund AGAIN (it's probably the 4-5th email I've sent clearly stating that it was time for a refund!)
> 
> I will be talking with my bank this afternoon regarding a charge back on the credit card, just to make them earn their 8%....


Oooh, that's weak on Hong Fu's part. I would request they honor the original 4% that they stated previously.

It's true that there are fees associated with the transaction but you shouldn't have to eat it all yourself. They should at least absorb half, especially after making you wait so long. 

What was the original delivery estimate at time you made the order?

For everyone else contemplating a purchase - I would suggest only paying a deposit initially until the frame is ready to ship, then pay the balance at that point. This should relieve some of the risk.


----------



## LuPaiGuFan

Has anyone buying from eBay seller "carbonzone" had their stuff turn up yet? I want to buy a fm028 and they are the only ones so far to return my emails and have quoted me $420 for it.


----------



## schoey

slabber said:


> Oooh, that's weak on Hong Fu's part. I would request they honor the original 4% that they stated previously.


As explained above, the 8% was a mis-understanding. I have now received the refund minus 4%.



slabber said:


> What was the original delivery estimate at time you made the order?


Original delivery date was 15th July (~12 weeks) which was long but understandable as my order was BB30 and UD which are not quite the standard.


----------



## slabber

Alright - so, you're actually only about 3wks late at this point, that's not _that_ bad...


----------



## Timbuctoo

In response to picture of frame from Yishun on page 5 of thread. This also looks very similar to a Bianchi 928 with the ISP. Anyone built this one up yet, I'd be interested to know how it performs.


----------



## Franky692

My first post here: hello everybody ! 
Here my FM028 ISP size 54 partially assembled from italy. The grapichs are only tests on white paper.
Anybody has an alternative for the original stubby (seat post) with a seat back of 1.5 or 2 cm and a diameter of 37.0cm


----------



## jwcurry83

LuPaiGuFan said:


> Has anyone buying from eBay seller "carbonzone" had their stuff turn up yet? I want to buy a fm028 and they are the only ones so far to return my emails and have quoted me $420 for it.


No one on this forum has posted about this seller, but if you look at the feedback on eBay then it clearly shows that people have been happy about receiving "as described" frames and other parts from this seller. All my emails to this seller about a month ago were answered almost immediately and thoroughly... I ended up not going through with the purchase because I didn't end up having enough money for everything. Let me know what your experience is if you decide to go through with it... and in the meantime, maybe try contacting some of the happy buyers on eBay about their experiences and report back to us... thanks.


----------



## tommyglennon

Didnt someone say that carbonzone on ebay is tony @ greatkeen?


----------



## jeep1818

I have been watching this thread and am looking to get a triathlon/TT frame. Is there a consensus on the better frame and where to get it? Does anyone have an recommendations? I haven't seen many people post about the tri frames


----------



## zender

jeep1818 said:


> I have been watching this thread and am looking to get a triathlon/TT frame. Is there a consensus on the better frame and where to get it? Does anyone have an recommendations? I haven't seen many people post about the tri frames


I bought and built up one of these and have had no significant problems after about 300 miles or so. The original carbon ebay frame thread had some of the nuances of this frame, particularly with regard to cable routing.

-edit: except for the fact that a 54cm is too long for me in the top tube. I ride a 55-56cm road bike, but I think a 52 cm top tube would be a more compact fit and easier to get the 90 degree angle on the shoulder and elbows.


----------



## mcrdave

Hi all,

I ordered from Carbonzone, got absolutely great service. This was my order:

1.the 58cm,NON-ISP,matt black FM015:$410
2.the headset:$15
3.THe shipping cost:$80
The total is $505.

I'm sure it's a little more than others from Hong Fu etc but I don't mind that much. I ordered on 27th July and I have in my hand now, shipped to the UK, painted Matt Black. All looks great.

Unbelievable service in my opinion, I couldn't have got better service and a quicker turn around from my LBS. i needed a frame fairly quick as I trashed my last one in a race 2 week ago today. I should be built and ready to race by Saturday all being well.

Thumbs up for Carbonzone.


----------



## XavierM

mcrdave said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I ordered from Carbonzone, got absolutely great service. This was my order:
> 
> 1.the 58cm,NON-ISP,matt black FM015:$410
> 2.the headset:$15
> 3.THe shipping cost:$80
> The total is $505.
> 
> I'm sure it's a little more than others from Hong Fu etc but I don't mind that much. I ordered on 27th July and I have in my hand now, shipped to the UK, painted Matt Black. All looks great.
> 
> Unbelievable service in my opinion, I couldn't have got better service and a quicker turn around from my LBS. i needed a frame fairly quick as I trashed my last one in a race 2 week ago today. I should be built and ready to race by Saturday all being well.
> 
> Thumbs up for Carbonzone.


Would love to see pics once you have it built! :thumbsup:


----------



## mcrdave

Sure will mate. Am getting some custom graphics made to give it some identity too.


----------



## lobo

mcrdave said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I ordered from Carbonzone, got absolutely great service. This was my order:
> 
> 1.the 58cm,NON-ISP,matt black FM015:$410
> 2.the headset:$15
> 3.THe shipping cost:$80
> The total is $505.
> 
> I'm sure it's a little more than others from Hong Fu etc but I don't mind that much. I ordered on 27th July and I have in my hand now, shipped to the UK, painted Matt Black. All looks great.
> 
> Unbelievable service in my opinion, I couldn't have got better service and a quicker turn around from my LBS. i needed a frame fairly quick as I trashed my last one in a race 2 week ago today. I should be built and ready to race by Saturday all being well.
> 
> Thumbs up for Carbonzone.


I ordered this set ( frame & fork & HS ) from Hong Fu and they charged me 504.90 $, one week from ordering to say hallo to the EMS guy at my door. What about fork ?


----------



## mcrdave

lobo said:


> I ordered this set ( frame & fork & HS ) from Hong Fu and they charged me 504.90 $, one week from ordering to say hallo to the EMS guy at my door. What about fork ?


Ah yeah meant to say, fork was included, plus headset too


----------



## philischen

So, after searching around... Cant wait to see a FM028 ISP build up. Anybody? Would love to see size 56.


----------



## zender

Forgot to add, I've been looking at some of their new designs, specifically, the one below (it also comes in a flat black). Curious about the rear brake since there is no hole for the bolt in either the usual spot or near the BB. I actuallly asked the seller, but with the broken English I couldn't get a clear answer -except that it does mount near the BB. I'd definitely want to know if someone built up one of these how they mounted the brake.


----------



## XavierM

philischen said:


> So, after searching around... Cant wait to see a FM028 ISP build up. Anybody? Would love to see size 56.


Here it is...Ive been doing some research and found this from DENGFU Bikes:

https://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/viewimg/photo/331246572/Full_carbon_frameset_carbon_frame_fork_road_bicyle_frame.jpg.html


----------



## stevesbike

zender said:


> Forgot to add, I've been looking at some of their new designs, specifically, the one below (it also comes in a flat black). Curious about the rear brake since there is no hole for the bolt in either the usual spot or near the BB. I actuallly asked the seller, but with the broken English I couldn't get a clear answer -except that it does mount near the BB. I'd definitely want to know if someone built up one of these how they mounted the brake.


I have one (from greatkeen; Dengfu on alibaba). The rear brake installs under the BB - they sold me a pair of Tektros for $65. The rear is a centerpull. Installs easily enough, takes some work to reduce friction so the brake works well.


----------



## stevesbike

it's Tektro T726R http://www.tektro.com/02products/12qb.php


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

zender said:


> Forgot to add, I've been looking at some of their new designs, specifically, the one below (it also comes in a flat black). Curious about the rear brake since there is no hole for the bolt in either the usual spot or near the BB. I actuallly asked the seller, but with the broken English I couldn't get a clear answer -except that it does mount near the BB. I'd definitely want to know if someone built up one of these how they mounted the brake.


Jeez--it looks like something that came down on a spaceship. Suits me, actually


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

stevesbike said:


> I have one (from greatkeen; Dengfu on alibaba). The rear brake installs under the BB - they sold me a pair of Tektros for $65. The rear is a centerpull. Installs easily enough, takes some work to reduce friction so the brake works well.


PLEASE show built-up pictures--also closeups of rear brake installation--my money is crying to be spent!


----------



## nickl75

*A new frame?*

Anyone seen this before?

View attachment 207668


I found it here: http://www.taiwantrade.com.tw/EP/Products.do?Method=showProductDetail&catalogId=479455&epDomainName=mkbicycle

I like it in a I-though-BMC-lugs-were-wacky-kinda-way.

(edit: I'm not actually sure if this frame is carbon or not)


----------



## karlo

nickl75 said:


> Anyone seen this before?
> 
> View attachment 207668
> 
> 
> I found it here: http://www.taiwantrade.com.tw/EP/Products.do?Method=showProductDetail&catalogId=479455&epDomainName=mkbicycle
> 
> I like it in a I-though-BMC-lugs-were-wacky-kinda-way.
> 
> (edit: I'm not actually sure if this frame is carbon or not)


Not Carbon, it says AA-7005 = Aluminum Alloy-7005

http://www.efunda.com/materials/all...m?ID=AA_7005&show_prop=all&Page_Title=AA 7005


----------



## jeep1818

ClarkinHawaii said:


> PLEASE show built-up pictures--also closeups of rear brake installation--my money is crying to be spent!


I agree, this may be what I am looking for. I like the bottom mount brakes. What size did you get, and how would you compare it to other bikes the same size? What frame is it?


----------



## juki48

Ordered my 51cm FM015 from DengFu Bike. Worked with Mina but paypal went to [email protected]. absolutly great service! got the bike in 4 days. 4. from china to NY in 4 days. I couldn't believe it. frame, fork, headset, seatpost clamp, and 2 extra hangers came to $456 shipped. shipping was $80 and the frame and fork were $340. put it together most of the way today. need to get a longer bolt for the front brake. frame looks great! this is my first carbon bike. can't wait to get some miles on it!


----------



## texascyclist

@ Frank, I would flip the FM238 script. Looks good!


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

:cryin: 

Hi,Clark
thanks for your email!
I'm so sorry ,your order will be delay 4 days more.
really sorry about this,because our test mashine have a little problem last week,so delay about 1 week to test.
hope you can give understanding.

best regards!
Jenny


----------



## stevesbike

jeep1818 said:


> I agree, this may be what I am looking for. I like the bottom mount brakes. What size did you get, and how would you compare it to other bikes the same size? What frame is it?


I'll post some tomorrow.


----------



## Zootv

For those of you who are talking with Hongfu / Jenny, what is the best way to contact her? I sent a few emails and I haven't gotten a response so maybe im using an address she doesn't use anymore. I used an email i found on this thread and the contact form on their website.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

Zootv said:


> For those of you who are talking with Hongfu / Jenny, what is the best way to contact her? I sent a few emails and I haven't gotten a response so maybe im using an address she doesn't use anymore. I used an email i found on this thread and the contact form on their website.


[email protected]


----------



## Bkelly

*Road Test*

I built up my FM015 in April and have over 1000 miles on it now including completing RAGBRAI this last week. I must say that I am really happy with the bike. It was reasonably comfortable during the 7 50 to 100 mile days that I just rode. It accelerates very quickly and climbs better than any bike that I have ridden. On the last day of RAGBRAI there was a long hill at 19% grade that at least 80% of the riders were walking up. I finished the climb with no problem. The only bike related problem I have had so far had nothing to do with the frame. My computer died due to rain. My only regret is that I cannot afford to buy and build a mountain bike up today. Here is a pic


----------



## rogue9607

I too am looking at the TT/Tri frames, specifically the non-ISP models with multiple position seatposts. I've seen a couple pics of built up FM018s, but I also found the FM021 frame on the DengFu website. In an email, they described it as "the new design TT frameset.and it is better than normal one."

Anyone have any experience with the FM021?


----------



## Zootv

Clarkin - thanks thats the email i used, maye she cant do what im asking so she just wont reply. I'll keep trying.

BKelly - you fork is awesome, great detail with the clover on outside and stars n stripes on the in. :thumbsup:


----------



## zigzag84

Very nice your bike !

Weight ?


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

Bkelly said:


> I built up my FM015 in April and have over 1000 miles on it now including completing RAGBRAI this last week. I must say that I am really happy with the bike. It was reasonably comfortable during the 7 50 to 100 mile days that I just rode. It accelerates very quickly and climbs better than any bike that I have ridden. On the last day of RAGBRAI there was a long hill at 19% grade that at least 80% of the riders were walking up. I finished the climb with no problem. The only bike related problem I have had so far had nothing to do with the frame. My computer died due to rain. My only regret is that I cannot afford to buy and build a mountain bike up today. Here is a pic


What is device hanging from handlebars with SRAM written on it?


----------



## velomateo

Bkelly said:


> I built up my FM015 in April and have over 1000 miles on it now including completing RAGBRAI this last week. I must say that I am really happy with the bike. It was reasonably comfortable during the 7 50 to 100 mile days that I just rode. It accelerates very quickly and climbs better than any bike that I have ridden. On the last day of RAGBRAI there was a long hill at 19% grade that at least 80% of the riders were walking up. I finished the climb with no problem. The only bike related problem I have had so far had nothing to do with the frame. My computer died due to rain. My only regret is that I cannot afford to buy and build a mountain bike up today. Here is a pic


My fm-015 is built almost identically to yours, same group, wheels and saddle. With 3k miles on the meter now - I too, am very pleased with the bikes performance. I really like your American flag detail on your inner fork...nice.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

Zootv said:


> Clarkin - thanks thats the email i used, maye she cant do what im asking so she just wont reply. I'll keep trying.
> 
> :thumbsup:


for the subject of your email, put

"think about order bike" or
"think about order more bike"

I'm pretty sure she'll answer swiftly!


----------



## philischen

Anybody has some confirmed weight on the FM 015.

Specially ISP clamp and fork....


----------



## XavierM

Does this frame look awfully similar to the FM028 Frame?


----------



## zigzag84

I think it isn't 028 ...The rear base seems more big than the 028 or 015.

This is a 028 :

T 56: 1155gr (original configuration : no cut) 
little seat post: 168gr
Fork (no cut): 406gr


----------



## XavierM

zigzag84 said:


> I think it isn't 028 ...The rear base seems more big than the 028 or 015.
> 
> This is a 028 :
> 
> T 56: 1155gr (original configuration : no cut)
> little seat post: 168gr
> Fork (no cut): 406gr


Very Nice!!! I believe this is the first picture of a fully built FM 028 that we've seen :thumbsup:


----------



## zigzag84

It's not a mine...

I waiting 015 non ISP with personal painting ... In 30 days it was délivery ...

The 028 is not in stock now. But i prefer the 015 ...


----------



## yurl

you can get some of the hongfu frames from miracle trade.
I just ordered an FM015 off them. the contact guy is Jack [email protected]


----------



## stevesbike

zender said:


> Forgot to add, I've been looking at some of their new designs, specifically, the one below (it also comes in a flat black). Curious about the rear brake since there is no hole for the bolt in either the usual spot or near the BB. I actuallly asked the seller, but with the broken English I couldn't get a clear answer -except that it does mount near the BB. I'd definitely want to know if someone built up one of these how they mounted the brake.


here's a pic of the brake


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

stevesbike said:


> here's a pic of the brake


Thanks for the photo--

Another question: What is the white stuff that you've used for installing the bottom bracket?


----------



## ultraman6970

Looks like the aluminum shell to me. The picture was taken with flash.

Steven what kind of BB do you have in there? A squared tapper one?


----------



## DRAwpt

I had ordered that frame for myself and a couple of teammates. I used the brake they sent with it and it basically does not work with all the cable friction due to the angle at which it exits the frame. My teammates have used the middle brake one this page one which works MUCH better: https://www.tektro.com/02products/12qb.php. I will be switching mine out soon.


----------



## lobo

So, I am after a very first ride on my new 015 . Bike fits very well, thanks to Competitive Cyclist's Fit Calculator. My previous frame was way too long for me. My feelings : ride is very responsive, quick acceleration, VERY good climber, due to lateral stiffnes and light weels, vibrations dampening is far better then on Alu, cornering is neutral. 
Total bike weight : 7.8 kg with EVERYTHING you have to attach to the frame. Dura Ace 7800 from nose to tail and Ritchey alu cocpit and seat post.


----------



## gs15step

Just wanted to chime back in with some updated pics of the bike, now with custom C50 Ghost wheels.

You can see my original post here https://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=2891417&postcount=263










Ciao!


----------



## jwcurry83

gs15step said:


> Just wanted to chime back in with some updated pics of the bike, now with custom C50 Ghost wheels.
> 
> You can see my original post here https://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=2891417&postcount=263
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ciao!


Got Milk? lol


----------



## stevesbike

ultraman6970 said:


> Looks like the aluminum shell to me. The picture was taken with flash.
> 
> Steven what kind of BB do you have in there? A squared tapper one?


yes, it's the shell reflection. Crank is FSA neo pro with FSA ceramic BB (Chain reaction cycling was almost giving these away last year). It took some fiddling to get the brake set up so the friction wasn't too bad - I used a section of cable housing from the cable exit so it arcs at an OK angle. Still not super braking but that's also in part due using the fsa brake levers plus internal cabling through the bars.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

Has anybody installed his bottom bracket without a torque wrench? In a carbon frame? 

I bought the low-range torque wrench, but I hate to spring for the high-range when the only thing I need it for is the bottom bracket on my carbon frame, which may never arrive anyway! 

Reminder to self: Never buy anything from China that is not in stock exactly as you want it when you place the order.


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

XavierM said:


> Very Nice!!! I believe this is the first picture of a fully built FM 028 that we've seen :thumbsup:



............LOL


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

Does that DengFu's new TT model - FM021 - look very similar to the Museeuws TT bike?


----------



## Safeway

Why are there not more 60cm frames? I love the look of these!

I found this 61cm on eBay, but it is lacking a lot of the 028 and 015 features, such as integrated cable runs and the availability of BB30.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-Full-...cm-/370417615777?pt=Road_Bikes#ht_1722wt_1137

Please link all 60cm and 61cm frames that you know of!


----------



## stevesbike

you'll see a lot of the TT frames around; I believe Planet X developed it but allows an open mold to offset prices (it's the same as their Exocet frame). The tube shaping is nice, but the geometry is weird (at least for me). The max seat extension in the L is too short for me although the top tube is right but the XL gets too long in the toptube and has a gigantic head tube (something like 165), which is a deal breaker for a TT frame.


----------



## stevesbike

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Has anybody installed his bottom bracket without a torque wrench? In a carbon frame?
> 
> I bought the low-range torque wrench, but I hate to spring for the high-range when the only thing I need it for is the bottom bracket on my carbon frame, which may never arrive anyway!
> 
> Reminder to self: Never buy anything from China that is not in stock exactly as you want it when you place the order.


a bottom bracket requires a special tool (grooved to fit the slines on it) so can't use a torque wrench for it. Main thing is not to damage the cups, especially SRAM since they are pretty soft and it's easy to damage it if the tool is not kept firmly in the slots.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

A real purist would buy a 1/2" torque wrench and a special fitting that fits the splines and affixes to the torque wrench. I'm not that particular--I just want to be sure that I don't gorilla down so hard that I dislodge the metal bottom bracket fitting from the carbon. It's kind of vague to me just how they are attached and how sturdy they are.


----------



## mrbubbles

gs15step said:


> Just wanted to chime back in with some updated pics of the bike, now with custom C50 Ghost wheels.
> 
> You can see my original post here http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showpost.php?p=2891417&postcount=263


What is your height and inseam?


----------



## Safeway

Actually, I think a 58cm FM028 might work. What do you guys think?

The 60cm Trek Madone has a 598mm stack and a 400mm reach.
The 58cm FM028 has a 607.2mm stack and a 387.4mm reach.

The Madone fit like a glove. I can correct the reach with a 10mm longer stem. The stack is only slightly off. Think this bike would fit as well as the 60cm Trek Madone?


----------



## WheresWaldo

Safeway said:


> Actually, I think a 58cm FM028 might work. What do you guys think?
> 
> The 60cm Trek Madone has a 598mm stack and a 400mm reach.
> The 58cm FM028 has a 607.2mm stack and a 387.4mm reach.
> 
> The Madone fit like a glove. I can correct the reach with a 10mm longer stem. The stack is only slightly off. Think this bike would fit as well as the 60cm Trek Madone?


10mm longer stem and 10mm less spacers would make it just about identical.


----------



## Safeway

Great point!

I'll have to put in an order!

What's the best source for an FM028? Email?


----------



## tarzan13

mcrdave said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I ordered from Carbonzone, got absolutely great service. This was my order:
> 
> 1.the 58cm,NON-ISP,matt black FM015:$410
> 2.the headset:$15
> 3.THe shipping cost:$80
> The total is $505.
> 
> I'm sure it's a little more than others from Hong Fu etc but I don't mind that much. I ordered on 27th July and I have in my hand now, shipped to the UK, painted Matt Black. All looks great.
> 
> Unbelievable service in my opinion, I couldn't have got better service and a quicker turn around from my LBS. i needed a frame fairly quick as I trashed my last one in a race 2 week ago today. I should be built and ready to race by Saturday all being well.
> 
> Thumbs up for Carbonzone.


Hi mcrdave,
Can you please advise how much UK import taxes were on your shipment?
Thanks,


----------



## ntb1001

Has anyone ordered this frame from Great Keen??

RFM 201

http://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/cp_detail.php?id=96&nowmenuid=12&cpath=0009:&catid=0


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

ntb1001 said:


> Has anyone ordered this frame from Great Keen??
> 
> RFM 201
> 
> http://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/cp_detail.php?id=96&nowmenuid=12&cpath=0009:&catid=0


I wonder if they duplicate the Bianchi graphics as well? Or how much extra it would cost? Or if they even have the capability?

Same questions with that Pinarallo Prince clone that was pictured on here awhile back . . .


----------



## scblur

Finally finished my HongFu FM015

Everything went together well, no problems at all. I am sticking with the stealth or no name, no logo, no paint. (especially NOT swoopy red/black/white colors)(I feel a bit poser if I name it a name it is not, HongFu would be fine... as it is a HongFu)

It's a 58cm. Fittingly my first real road bike was gloss black. So I am sticking with this color scheme.
Frame cost delivered $520
I put everything together for around $1400. 
I absolutely would do it again. It rides like a dream.
Thanks to all that this thread existed. I really appreciated the leads and info.


----------



## scblur

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Has anybody installed his bottom bracket without a torque wrench? In a carbon frame?
> 
> I bought the low-range torque wrench, but I hate to spring for the high-range when the only thing I need it for is the bottom bracket on my carbon frame, which may never arrive anyway!
> 
> Reminder to self: Never buy anything from China that is not in stock exactly as you want it when you place the order.



Take it to a local shop and save the trouble. I am sure they will torq a BB for you for cheap. While you are there have them install your headset.

Also, Ive got 25 miles on my FM015 already! See above post.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

scblur said:


> Finally finished my HongFu FM015
> 
> Everything went together well, no problems at all. I am sticking with the stealth or no name, no logo, no paint. (especially NOT swoopy red/black/white colors)(I feel a bit poser if I name it a name it is not, HongFu would be fine... as it is a HongFu)
> 
> It's a 58cm. Fittingly my first real road bike was gloss black. So I am sticking with this color scheme.
> Frame cost delivered $520
> I put everything together for around $1400.
> I absolutely would do it again. It rides like a dream.
> Thanks to all that this thread existed. I really appreciated the leads and info.


You say no paint, but it's got a beautiful shine. Surely that's not just raw carbon, is it? Do they automatically clear-coat it?


----------



## scblur

ClarkinHawaii said:


> You say no paint, but it's got a beautiful shine. Surely that's not just raw carbon, is it? Do they automatically clear-coat it?


Sorry, no other paint than the clear coat it came with. 

I only meant to say I have not intention of painting it white, red or any other color than the natural finish it has (although clearcoated...)


----------



## XR4Ti

ClarkinHawaii said:


> *A real purist would buy a 1/2" torque wrench and a special fitting that fits the splines and affixes to the torque wrench.* I'm not that particular--I just want to be sure that I don't gorilla down so hard that I dislodge the metal bottom bracket fitting from the carbon. It's kind of vague to me just how they are attached and how sturdy they are.


That's what I did (but I had the torque wrench in my toolbox and the BB tool I bought just happened to take a 1/2" sq fitting). May as well do it right.


----------



## karlo

ClarkinHawaii said:


> I wonder if they duplicate the Bianchi graphics as well? Or how much extra it would cost? Or if they even have the capability?
> 
> Same questions with that Pinarallo Prince clone that was pictured on here awhile back . . .


He quoted me for the Pinarello Prince clone $420 painted, that's the frame and fork.

This is the picture he sent me as an example plus the one he has online as well.


----------



## aikendrum

Nice build - I like the minimalistic approach, well balanced - fast geometry and good components - it often amazes me how different these bikes can be with very simple changes. Enjoy the ride!


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

karlo said:


> He quoted me for the Pinarello Prince clone $420 painted, that's the frame and fork.
> 
> This is the picture he sent me as an example plus the one he has online as well.


This is Greatkeen; and they only have the two sizes, right?


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

If every other page people are always gonna ask the same question there is going to be a V3 needed for this thread. 

That question is asked at least 4 times and has been answered like a hundred times. 

Make a bit of an effort if you really want the answer and read the thread. You don't have to go far back.


----------



## lehisj

I am just about to go to the customs to pick-up my TT-frame, which I have purchased from Tony (Greatkeen). Now I would like to ask from those who have purchased a frame from Greatkeen if there is any copy of the Excel-invoice inside the parcel (what sum?) and what total sum Tony has used for the shipment/customs papers?

Thanks!


----------



## Zootv

This video made me laugh a little. Surprised that Mario wore plain white/black outfit instead of a landish outfit, but any chance to take off his shirt .. LOL.

On a serious note, his bike frames last year resemebled some of these open frames. However, what about his new one, RB1000 seen in this 'leaked' video? Seems like a nice frame. Gotta love the 'white' guys working in the factory in 'italy'. Must have been the few italians living in china.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2CjJqFdBdM&feature=player_embedded


----------



## tron

scblur said:


> Sorry, no other paint than the clear coat it came with.
> 
> I only meant to say I have not intention of painting it white, red or any other color than the natural finish it has (although clearcoated...)


Bike looks great. I am just about to order the same, but I am going to paint it all white and maybe throw some stickers on later.


----------



## zender

karlo said:


> He quoted me for the Pinarello Prince clone $420 painted, that's the frame and fork.
> 
> This is the picture he sent me as an example plus the one he has online as well.


LOL, I think I'm going to have to pick up one of those "Pinarellos" for a winter beater. It's disposable at that price.


----------



## tizon

*First Post first Build*

I got into cycling early last year and bought a Peugeot for $200 and fell in love with riding, I started riding to school, the bank, running errands everywhere, the peugeot is an 1984 (i think) HLE and its a tank. I have raced it in two Sprint Triathlons(one third place), and one 50mile road race, and logged almost 1500 miles on her. At first i didnt want to make a big investment into riding so i bought the used bike, got the aero bar, and rode the hell out of it, now there is a crack running down the seat post tube. Still going to hang on to my daily beater though. 
















I have been following this forum for a long time now, and was on the fence about the Ebay Carbon Builds. After spending many a night reading through I decided to go for it and ordered from bicyclemarket, I didn't make any contact with the seller beforehand, just clicked the buy it now and paypal'd, then i started reading about some posts that were kinda negative and i got scared, then i had four days with out receiving any tracking number, I ended up using an online translation into Cantonese(hongkong) and got a reply quick. They had some shipping problems, finally got my tracking # and it arrived! all in about 2 weeks.









I couldnt believe how LIGHT this frame is!!! I think im going to spend a little and go with SRAM Force, some Vuelta Corsa Lites... wooohoooo!!! so stoked its here!


----------



## Aftermath

I am about to order a frame from greatkeen (Dengfu sports yaddayadda..) But my contact person is named Mina. Is that strange? Since everybody seams to have spoken to this Tony guy. Have anybody else been in contact with this Mina? the webadress i used was: http://greatkeen.com.cn/ 

Thank you in advance (or how you say it in English heh)


----------



## rogue9607

Aftermath said:


> I am about to order a frame from greatkeen (Dengfu sports yaddayadda..) But my contact person is named Mina. Is that strange? Since everybody seams to have spoken to this Tony guy. Have anybody else been in contact with this Mina? the webadress i used was: http://greatkeen.com.cn/
> 
> Thank you in advance (or how you say it in English heh)


I've been emailing back and forth with Mina and she typically CCs Tony Yang which I assume is the person everyone mentions. Once I got a response from Tony after Mina had already answered the question. She's been very helpful so far.


----------



## golfhacker1

BlackDoggystyle said:


> Here you got my FM28 size 56cm in matt 3k completely finished.
> 
> Cheers!


Your bike looks sweet. Have you decided on your graphics yet? 

Quick question for you. What is the seat post diameter? I am assuming it is 31.6. Did the seller provide a seat post for you and you preferred your own?

I just ordered my FM-28 last Friday.


----------



## golfhacker1

rogue9607 said:


> I've been emailing back and forth with Mina and she typically CCs Tony Yang which I assume is the person everyone mentions. Once I got a response from Tony after Mina had already answered the question. She's been very helpful so far.


I ordered a FM-28 last Friday from DengFu and spoke with Mina. Being in California, I would e-mail her during the day and would usually hear back from Mina in the evening but no later than the AM the following day. She would always cc the e-mails to Tony. I had black/white color pattern that I wanted, so she said it would be ready for shipping at the end of this week. I paid half up front and will pay the rest before shipping. They will e-mail me pictures before shipping for my approval. So far, the experience has been good. I will let everyone know how it turns out.


----------



## DRAwpt

*Cippolini bike clone*



Zootv said:


> This video made me laugh a little. Surprised that Mario wore plain white/black outfit instead of a landish outfit, but any chance to take off his shirt .. LOL.
> 
> On a serious note, his bike frames last year resemebled some of these open frames. However, what about his new one, RB1000 seen in this 'leaked' video? Seems like a nice frame. Gotta love the 'white' guys working in the factory in 'italy'. Must have been the few italians living in china.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2CjJqFdBdM&feature=player_embedded


Anybody seen a similar road frame somewhere? I'd get one unbadged in a second!


----------



## carbonite

*model RB002 Integrated seatpost carbon frame on eBay*

anybody have any experience with this RB200? this unit looks like the business. how bout the seller Carbonzone. i am looking to go with one of these asian sellers and this has everything i am looking for ; unidirectional carbon(no weave) tapered headtube, bb30 bottom bracket. seller sportscome also has same frame.


----------



## nickl75

That frame is also known as the Hong Fu FM015. See http://cheapcarbonframes.com/tag/fm015/ for a fair bit of info.

The sticky Carbon Ebay Frames thread has more pics etc too.


----------



## WheresWaldo

Actually the RB002 and FM028 are the same frame.


----------



## bcmf

I am close to pulling the trigger on this.Anyone built one up? Are all the frames built with/for 31.6 seatpost and 34.6 seatclamp/ front mechs?


Pinarc said:


> I got frames of follow and very nice,from greatkeenbike.com Ms.hu


----------



## nickl75

bcmf said:


> I am close to pulling the trigger on this.Anyone built one up? Are all the frames built with/for 31.6 seatpost and 34.6 seatclamp/ front mechs?


According to the one frame diagram I have for that (http://cheapcarbonframes.com/2010/07/fm027-carbon-fiber-bike-frame/) the outer diameter of the seatpost is 31.8. However, the diagram also says "seatpost: 27.2", so I'd go by that.

I had assumed it would be a "braze-on" mount for the front mech, but I can't say for sure.


----------



## aharrod

That frame looks great, though I am not sure why you would want a bike that says Pinarello, that isn't actuall a Pinarello. Keep in mind that it is a very small chance, customs would confiscate the counterfeit frame if they miraculously figured out it wasn't actually a Pinarello. As the consignee that would be your loss.

Not likely to happen, but I did want to bring it up, especially since it is continually being shown in a public forum like this,.


----------



## Zootv

DRAwpt said:


> Anybody seen a similar road frame somewhere? I'd get one unbadged in a second!


It looks more like a TT frame than a road frame but i guess it could be used as a areo road frame.


----------



## bcmf

nickl75 said:


> According to the one frame diagram I have for that (http://cheapcarbonframes.com/2010/07/fm027-carbon-fiber-bike-frame/) the outer diameter of the seatpost is 31.8. However, the diagram also says "seatpost: 27.2", so I'd go by that.
> 
> I had assumed it would be a "braze-on" mount for the front mech, but I can't say for sure.


Thanks Nick but the one in your link is different to the pic. Note the seat tube in the pic have no 'wave' and the head tube is is slightly different.


----------



## bcmf

aharrod said:


> That frame looks great, though I am not sure why you would want a bike that says Pinarello, that isn't actuall a Pinarello. Keep in mind that it is a very small chance, customs would confiscate the counterfeit frame if they miraculously figured out it wasn't actually a Pinarello. As the consignee that would be your loss.
> 
> Not likely to happen, but I did want to bring it up, especially since it is continually being shown in a public forum like this,.


i do not intend to bring it in with a pino paint job> I have e-mailed greatkeen about getting it in in ud with no lacquer finish as I intend to paint finish it to my own spec.I (and no doubt everyone here who buys these) are not under the illusion that it is a real Pino or Bianchi or cervelo. many here have a tight budget and am glad of the oppurtunity to be able to buy a carbon frame at an affordable price.
I have a Hong Fu FM-001 and have to say that I cant fault it.


----------



## Zootv

anyone heard of BEV? Seems like the same frames but others I haven't seen before

http://www.bev-intl.com/frame.htm


----------



## aharrod

I have had s2 China frames as well and am quite happy, I am about to buy a 015 for the wife and another for myself and possible a new TT frame as well. That Pinarello frame looks great no doubt. I deal with US customs several times a week, so I wanted to make sure everyone understands the risks ( though extremely minimal).


----------



## bcmf

aharrod said:


> I deal with US customs several times a week, so I wanted to make sure everyone understands the risks ( though extremely minimal).


You wanna deal with Irish customs. If they find out what is going on they screw you. then bend you over a barrel and screw you again.Then on the way out the door they kick you in the nuts just for good measure.


----------



## aharrod

Actually Chinese customs has been the worst this year for me. They are really starting to crack down on some of the counterfeiting coming out of China. Irish customs sounds lovely.


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

Have found the first problem with the FM28...

I did a 100k ride, all in the rain, and when I got back home I took the bike to hang em up and I heared like an ocean moving around in the frame... Damn.

I don't know if it's normal for carbon bikes to take that much water inside..but I've been always told that water and carbon doens't "mix" well...I just hope that theu use enough epoxy on the inside to protect the carbon from te water.

And the problem is ...I don't know where the water comes in. There is a little hole on the downtube wich I taped of when I build the frame, but luckey that that little hole is there orelse I wouldn't know how to get rid of the water. I guess the hole where the front deralleur cable goes thru the frame, just behind the seattube and the bottom bracket. 
I pulled out the seattube and no water was comming out there...maybe the headset?...

Anyway...bit anoying.


----------



## aharrod

BlackDoggystyle said:


> Have found the first problem with the FM28...
> 
> I did a 100k ride, all in the rain, and when I got back home I took the bike to hang em up and I heared like an ocean moving around in the frame... Damn.
> 
> I don't know if it's normal for carbon bikes to take that much water inside..but I've been always told that water and carbon doens't "mix" well...I just hope that theu use enough epoxy on the inside to protect the carbon from te water.
> 
> And the problem is ...I don't know where the water comes in. There is a little hole on the downtube wich I taped of when I build the frame, but luckey that that little hole is there orelse I wouldn't know how to get rid of the water. I guess the hole where the front deralleur cable goes thru the frame, just behind the seattube and the bottom bracket.
> I pulled out the seattube and no water was comming out there...maybe the headset?...
> 
> Anyway...bit anoying.


I would leave any holds in the bottom of the frame open for water to drain. Also it usually comes in through the seattube and the headset. I have heard of some people drilling a hole in the bottom of hte bottom bracket shell for it to drain.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

aharrod said:


> I have heard of some people drilling a hole in the bottom of hte bottom bracket shell for it to drain.


I have done this with my steel and alloy frames. The cable guide under the bottom bracket shell usually has 2 holes--1 for the screw to mount the guide to the shell, the other for drain. Was undecided about the carbon frame, but a recent post indicated that you could do modest drilling into the carbon without bad effect (this was the post about realigning the screwed-up down-tube cable stop). Anybody disagree?


----------



## cbellamore

Im new to this site and have been reading a lot about these frames 
and I think Im going to go ahead and buy one 

any input as to which seller has the fastest ship time and best prices 

I can wait a while for the frame Im not in a rush as I will be putting the bike together over the winter time 

I want something with no clear coat as I will want to paint it myself 
also I want a BB30 sized bottom bracket (most of the ones I have seen are English BB size)

also I might add Im looking for a TT/Triathlon frame 
if anyone can send me some links with pricing or emails to contact the sellers at I would greatly appreciate 

my email is [email protected] 
thanks


----------



## Zootv

cbellamore said:


> I also I might add Im looking for a TT/Triathlon frame
> if anyone can send me some links with pricing or emails to contact the sellers at I would greatly appreciate
> 
> my email is [email protected]
> thanks


Dengfu has a TT BB30 frame, here a link but search the thread and the old one and you can see some of these built up. 

http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/product/328366857-201959029/2010_new_design_full_carbon_TT_frameset_carbon_TT_frame_carbon_TT_fork_carbon_TT_carbon_handlebar.html


----------



## Zootv

*Anyone Seen this Frame?*

I was about to get a FM015, but then i found this frame and fell in love with it. I think this is the exact frame as the Pedalforce RS3. 

http://carbon-products.en.alibaba.com/productshowimg/277322287-200176927/carbon_bike_frame_BB30.html

I found it here also but terrible expensive, they want $650 for it but at least they give the geometries of the frames. 
http://www.carbonbikeshop.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=72&products_id=225

Anyone deal with Sanming Wish Trade Co., Ltd.?


----------



## nickl75

bcmf said:


> Thanks Nick but the one in your link is different to the pic. Note the seat tube in the pic have no 'wave' and the head tube is is slightly different.



Good point - I was looking mostly at the seat stays which are similar.

Anyone have geometry for this?


----------



## nickl75

Zootv said:


> anyone heard of BEV? Seems like the same frames but others I haven't seen before
> 
> http://www.bev-intl.com/frame.htm


I haven't seen most of these frames before.

I especially like http://www.bev-intl.com/frame-bvr-04.htm. To quote:



> BVR-04
> Carbon frame super cool wings.
> Strong muscles 04 special edition


*Super Cool Wings. Strong Muscles Special Edition* :thumbsup:


----------



## WheresWaldo

nickl75 said:


> I haven't seen most of these frames before.
> 
> I especially like http://www.bev-intl.com/frame-bvr-04.htm. To quote:
> 
> 
> 
> *Super Cool Wings. Strong Muscles Special Edition* :thumbsup:


Bevato International has been around for a while, I doubt you would have any trouble dealing with them. Most of their designs are older and you won't find frames like the FM015, but they do have a Full Suspension Carbon MTB frame in a sizes other than 19".


----------



## Zootv

nickl75 said:


> I haven't seen most of these frames before.
> 
> I especially like http://www.bev-intl.com/frame-bvr-04.htm. To quote:
> 
> 
> 
> *Super Cool Wings. Strong Muscles Special Edition* :thumbsup:


You know i wasn't going to post this, but in my research today I found this funnier than the 'Strong Muscles Special Edition" I love the fact the put a Scott yellow painted fork on a Scott red painted frame that isn't even a Scott frame to begin with. A CR1 never had that profile! :cryin: :cryin: :cryin: 

http://shezed.cn/productshowimg/330316918-210298090/Carbon_Road_Bicycle_Frame_Carbon_Fiber_Bicycle_Frame.html?tracelog=fmotherproduct1


----------



## cbellamore

what are the differences between the 3k and 12k weave 
is it just cosmetic or is one stronger than the other ?


----------



## Spursrider

*3K or 12K?*



cbellamore said:


> what are the differences between the 3k and 12k weave
> is it just cosmetic or is one stronger than the other ?


Hope this answers your question  :

http://cheapcarbonframes.com/2010/07/3k-or-12k-carbon/


----------



## AdaptableOsprey

Spursrider said:


> Hope this answers your question  :
> 
> http://cheapcarbonframes.com/2010/07/3k-or-12k-carbon/


I don't think 1800 ft/lb (12K) and 7400 ft/lb (3k) are a measurement of the "strength" of the carbon fiber, but are a unit to help with making a purchasing decision. For the 12K carbon fiber, there are 1800 ft in 1 pound. For 3k carbon fiber there are 7400ft in 1 pound; or 7400 ft of 3K carbon fiber weighs 1 pound. There a 4 times as many carbon fiber filaments in 12k than in 3K carbon fiber, so it makes sense that 1 lb 12k carbon fiber will be approximately 1/4 the length of 3K carbon fiber. I haven't worked with carbon fiber, so I could be wrong.

In my experience with tensile testing, Young's modulus (stiffness) and yield strength (maximum stress before a plastic material transitions from reversible elastic deformation to irreversible plastic deformation) both have units of force per unit area or pressure (Pascals, N/M squared).

The information on that website regarding the strength of 3K and 12K seems to be highly misleading. Good job on the rest of the website though. That fit calculator is cool!

The question remains, what are the advantages to each kind of carbon fiber? If anyone has any info on this I would like to know.


----------



## jeep1818

Zootv said:


> Dengfu has a TT BB30 frame, here a link but search the thread and the old one and you can see some of these built up.
> 
> http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/product/328366857-201959029/2010_new_design_full_carbon_TT_frameset_carbon_TT_frame_carbon_TT_fork_carbon_TT_carbon_handlebar.html


They quoted me a price of 640(w/shipping) for the frame/fork/seatpost for the TT. Is this price normal or are there cheaper places to get the TT frame?


----------



## cbellamore

jeep1818 said:


> They quoted me a price of 640(w/shipping) for the frame/fork/seatpost for the TT. Is this price normal or are there cheaper places to get the TT frame?


I just spoke with Mina from Greatkeen and the total was $640 shipped and including the paypal fee for the 
frame (unpainted)
fork
headset 
seatpost 
for the newer FM021 frame set 
(which I believe is the same as the new Planet X Exocet which is about $1200 with shipping to the US) so its half the price of that 

I went ahead and ordered one today 
these also come with the BB30 bottom bracket 
they had the size and carbon weave finish that I wanted in stock so I figured I would give it a try 
they said it will ship within 5 business days 
the only thing I wasnt crazy about was the $24 paypal fee (but I would prefer to use paypal over a money order, although I really wanted to use a credit card to avoid a paypal fee but this was not an option)
I will update here when I get the package and post up some pics of it 
heres a link to the frameset that I got 
http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/produc...arbon_TT_fork_carbon_TT_carbon_handlebar.html


----------



## cbellamore

also just wanted to ask to everyone that painted their own frames 
is there any special paint prep to carbon fiber ? 
I have experience painting cars and motorcycles but never did any carbon fiber stuff before 
im assuming I can simply primer and topcoat as I would normally correct ?


----------



## nickl75

AdaptableOsprey said:


> I don't think 1800 ft/lb (12K) and 7400 ft/lb (3k) are a measurement of the "strength" of the carbon fiber, but are a unit to help with making a purchasing decision. For the 12K carbon fiber, there are 1800 ft in 1 pound. For 3k carbon fiber there are 7400ft in 1 pound; or 7400 ft of 3K carbon fiber weighs 1 pound. There a 4 times as many carbon fiber filaments in 12k than in 3K carbon fiber, so it makes sense that 1 lb 12k carbon fiber will be approximately 1/4 the length of 3K carbon fiber. I haven't worked with carbon fiber, so I could be wrong.
> 
> In my experience with tensile testing, Young's modulus (stiffness) and yield strength (maximum stress before a plastic material transitions from reversible elastic deformation to irreversible plastic deformation) both have units of force per unit area or pressure (Pascals, N/M squared).


Errr... :mad2: 

I think you might be right. I was so pleased with myself for finding something that provided actual real numbers for 3K and 12K fiber that I didn't bother to think about it for a second. How embarrassing! I've fixed that bit up.

I think the rest of that entry (about the history of the different fiber types) is still correct - or as correct as I could work out from reading various extracts from early 2000's press releases around the net.

I'm not sure it's that useful (although it does explain why you don't seen 12K fiber on smaller things like handlebars & stems), but I don't think it is incorrect anymore.


----------



## nickl75

AdaptableOsprey said:


> The question remains, what are the advantages to each kind of carbon fiber? If anyone has any info on this I would like to know.


http://www.hexcel.com/NR/rdonlyres/...84B1DDF3/0/HexTowCarbonFiberSelectorGuide.pdf has some strength measurements (for real this time )

3K fiber is listed with a tensile strength of between 4440 & 4600 MPa and tensile modulus of between 221 & 231 GPa

12K fiber has tensile strength between 44475 & 6964 MPa and tensile modulus between 231 & 303 GPa

I'm not sure how useful that is without knowing the exact fiber that is being used in your frame. Basically I think that document shows that all that stuff various manufactures say about using different grades of fiber in different parts of the frame really could make a difference.


----------



## yongkun

Anybody got any frameset to recommend?

This is my first venture into OEM CF frames, did some research about the FM015 but still not sure of its performance.

I am looking for a frame that is:
light (preferably less than 1kg for Frame only)
stiff (no wobbly front)

I am willing to pay up to around 800 for the frame alone, as i got my 3T funda fork.

Was recommended the following frame:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/301...ad-bike-frame-and-fork-FM-R830SL-FK-R830.html

That is actually the frame Nanolight which Planet X are selling, But i am not really sure whether if planet x got their frames from them, or the company above just uses the same mould. So i am worried that the quality will be abit dodgy.

Thanks!


----------



## Zootv

yongkun said:


> Was recommended the following frame:
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/301...ad-bike-frame-and-fork-FM-R830SL-FK-R830.html
> 
> That is actually the frame Nanolight which Planet X are selling, But i am not really sure whether if planet x got their frames from them, or the company above just uses the same mould. So i am worried that the quality will be abit dodgy.
> 
> Thanks!


I have seen that frame before and like it alot, however I have seen it cheaper from other alibaba.com. The only nice things is they take Aliexpress, which you can do the escrow option. So you can pay via credit card and dont have to pay until you recieve shipment, kind of double protection there. 

? for others, when on Alibaba.com is it best to always stick with the Gold Suppliers? Seems like all the good feedback from members are from these 'Gold' Suppliers

BTW the geo for this frame is:
http://www.carbonbikeshop.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=72&products_id=223&zenid=32fd66f8de968a270e58c8b6b1b009ac


----------



## Zootv

*More Info on the FM-R830SL*

So I was doing some more research, and I apologize for all the post. But I did find this company that carries the 830 among others. 

http://www.xpa-cycling.com/products.php?url=framessts.php&key=1

What I also found, was several websites that had bill of lading details. One specifically was for this company XPACE(XIAMEN)INDUSTRIAL CO.,LTD. Seems as if Baily Bikes get their D503 frame http://www.bailey-bikes.com/p.cfm/road/d-503-road from Xiamen per the 2/3/09 Bill of Lading. Specifically, Bailys D503 is Xiamens FM-R820 frame. 

Xiamens might be a company to consider to get these other frames. The TT FM-R845 looks like a nice TT Frame

Update: XIAMEN doesn't sell directly to end users ... bummer


----------



## Timbuctoo

Has anyone done a build on these two Greatkeen frames; Pinarello look alike (RFM101), Bianchi look alike (RFM201). I see a lot of talk about the FM015 & 028 but no one has build these yet. I'm just wondering how that wavey RFM101 rides, it looks kind of strange. The other that looks very Bianch like is that ISP from by Yishon from page 5 of this thread. Anyone tried that yet? I'm not sure I like the idea of painting a frame to look like a name brand but I do like the frame shapes, especially the Bianchi type ones. Any info would be great.


----------



## yongkun

Enquired about the bianchi bike, was replied:

RFM201 is oem for bianchi 928.one of old mould of bianchi!

Not really sure whether it is the same mould. How is the ride quality like and the quality of the frame as well.

They have the "3T funda" fork as well. But wonder are all these quality stuff in terms of stiffness and lightness.


----------



## missinglink

So I received my FM028 from Tony @ Greatkeen but I don't think that I got all of the right headset parts, can anyone take a look at this picture and let me know?

here are all the parts that came:









I thought that some of spacers should expand? maybe I'm wrong?


damaged when received, I filed down the burs, still usable?









Appreciate the help.

Thanks


----------



## LarsEjaas

missinglink said:


> I thought that some of spacers should expand? maybe I'm wrong?
> 
> 
> damaged when received, I filed down the burs, still usable?
> 
> 
> Appreciate the help.
> 
> Thanks


I think the parts are right, but i AM NOT 100% SURE. but you need to get the damaged part(s) replaced - I am affraid that the damaged spacer will KEEP giving you trouble, you are better of getting it right the first time around...


----------



## missinglink

Yea I didn't think so, I guess I'll be taking a trip to the shop tomorrow to pick up the parts.. I don't think I'll be able to keep from getting this built in record time once I get started


----------



## yongkun

Yea, realised that too: Xpace is OE manufactory so unfortunately we don’t trade with end users. 

Dang. Where else can i find R830SL other than that site, if you mentioned that there are cheaper options. I cant seem to find them.


----------



## mcrdave

Ok, quick teaser on my FM015. Created my own graphics and got them cut in clear gloss. Looks great against the matt black paint, will finish it tonight:


----------



## lobo

missinglink said:


> So I received my FM028 from Tony @ Greatkeen but I don't think that I got all of the right headset parts, can anyone take a look at this picture and let me know?
> 
> here are all the parts that came:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought that some of spacers should expand? maybe I'm wrong?
> 
> 
> damaged when received, I filed down the burs, still usable?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Appreciate the help.
> 
> Thanks


What are those two thin silver spacers for ? I have same headset NECO but received it without montage instruction so can't find place for the spacers. Would you post diagram with mounting order for this headset ?
Thanks.


----------



## rruff

yongkun said:


> Dang. Where else can i find R830SL other than that site, if you mentioned that there are cheaper options. I cant seem to find them.


Check here: http://archteks.en.alibaba.com/prod...ad_TR_FM102CF_.html?tracelog=cgsotherproduct1


----------



## campyc40

Zootv said:


> So I was doing some more research, and I apologize for all the post. But I did find this company that carries the 830 among others.
> 
> http://www.xpa-cycling.com/products.php?url=framessts.php&key=1
> 
> What I also found, was several websites that had bill of lading details. One specifically was for this company XPACE(XIAMEN)INDUSTRIAL CO.,LTD. Seems as if Baily Bikes get their D503 frame http://www.bailey-bikes.com/p.cfm/road/d-503-road from Xiamen per the 2/3/09 Bill of Lading. Specifically, Bailys D503 is Xiamens FM-R820 frame.


Hi guys,

I've been following this thread for quite a while now, and thought it was time to show my latest China purchase. I have the 838 model that is shown on the XPA website above. I bought it through a friend who just started his own bike company. The manufacturers website is http://www.gotobike.com.cn 
I built it up with SRAM Force and a wheelset that also comes from China (38 mm clincher, full carbon). I'll post some pics soon.
Anybody else here that owns the 838 model (or FM238)?


----------



## Zootv

yongkun said:


> Yea, realised that too: Xpace is OE manufactory so unfortunately we don’t trade with end users.
> 
> Dang. Where else can i find R830SL other than that site, if you mentioned that there are cheaper options. I cant seem to find them.


I have a few emails out to some other companies that have the 830, but it seems most of them have a minimum of 10 or dont sell direct :mad2:

opps, didn't see rruff's post so I'm waiting for price from archteks.


----------



## yongkun

Zootv said:


> I have a few emails out to some other companies that have the 830, but it seems most of them have a minimum of 10 or dont sell direct :mad2:


Yeap. i cant seem to find too. Anyone knows where else can i get my hands onto R830SL?


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

nickl75 said:


> Errr... :mad2:
> 
> I think you might be right. I was so pleased with myself for finding something that provided actual real numbers for 3K and 12K fiber that I didn't bother to think about it for a second. How embarrassing! I've fixed that bit up.
> 
> I think the rest of that entry (about the history of the different fiber types) is still correct - or as correct as I could work out from reading various extracts from early 2000's press releases around the net.
> 
> I'm not sure it's that useful (although it does explain why you don't seen 12K fiber on smaller things like handlebars & stems), but I don't think it is incorrect anymore.


I have an FM001 from HongFu in 12K and found out, in the bad way, that the 12k is indeed only the finishing layer, because all the layers underneith are 3k plain wave. You actually have 3k carbon in diffirent "weights" and types of how its woven (do I say this right?)...But I think the strenght depends more on the epoxy resins than has been used and also the vacuum strenght that has been used to manufacture the bike.

I had my chain dropped of and the chain stuck between the small chainring and the frame...guess witch of the three failed the chainstuck test? :x The frame off course. I had the top carbon layer ripped off (luck only one layer) and saw that the next layer is 3K.

Repaired it with a repair kit from carbonology.com after seeing that it's not so difficult to repair a carbon bike frame, depending the nature and place of the failure off course. Mine was only a cosmetic failure...so after sanding down the first layer and mix the epoxy resins I put on a new layer of 3k and finished it off with car spray paint and a clearcoat as a finish.

Here you got the blog where I saw the frame "recovery" --> http://activecycles.co.uk/2010/03/07/carbon-fibre-frame-repair/


----------



## campLo

Anyone know where to get a tapered headset for these bikes within the US for cheap? I was missing some parts from my kit


----------



## Zootv

campyc40 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I've been following this thread for quite a while now, and thought it was time to show my latest China purchase. I have the 838 model that is shown on the XPA website above. I bought it through a friend who just started his own bike company. The manufacturers website is http://www.gotobike.com.cn
> I built it up with SRAM Force and a wheelset that also comes from China (38 mm clincher, full carbon). I'll post some pics soon.
> Anybody else here that owns the 838 model (or FM238)?


Nice logo, i guess from your website your just coming out with the series 2 with that frameset. Nice photographs on the website too. Didn't see that frame on gotobike website, so sent inquiry about price. Looks like the Pedal Force RS3 but with ISP. Hopefully they can do a non-ISP model. Thanks for the PIC. :thumbsup:


----------



## tthome

Zootv said:


> Nice logo, i guess from your website your just coming out with the series 2 with that frameset. Nice photographs on the website too. Didn't see that frame on gotobike website, so sent inquiry about price. Looks like the Pedal Force RS3 but with ISP. Hopefully they can do a non-ISP model. Thanks for the PIC. :thumbsup:


Zootv...I'd be interested in that frame too as long as it DOESN'T have ISP. If you would let me know what you find out about the price. Maybe if we buy 2 they'll cut us a deal. I'll need a 53cm or 54cm depending on GEO.


----------



## rruff

*FM028 photo in gloss*

Here is a photo I found while searching online. Looks good... 

I just ordered one to replace my busted ZX3. I couldn't wait too long and they happened to find a 54cm, 3K gloss, BSA, non-ISP, that should ship in a couple days. Total price was $502 with fork, headset, shipping, and paypal fees.


----------



## tthome

rruff said:


> Here is a photo I found while searching online. Looks good...
> 
> I just ordered one to replace my busted ZX3. I couldn't wait too long and they happened to find a 54cm, 3K gloss, BSA, non-ISP, that should ship in a couple days. Total price was $502 with fork, headset, shipping, and paypal fees.


pm me please who you contacted and I'll see if maybe I can get one as well. Thx.


----------



## rruff

Just go here and use the system. You'll probably end up conversing with Mina rather than Tony Yang, though. 

http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/produc..._bicycle_parts.html?tracelog=cgsotherproduct1


----------



## Perico




----------



## rruff

If you are browsing around, Jack Chen from Miracle Trade is great to deal with. Excellent and informative emails. I didn't buy from there because they didn't have anything I wanted, but maybe they'll have what you want.	

http://www.miracle-trade.net.cn/pro..._SPL_ISP_frame.html?tracelog=cgsotherproduct1

Jack Chen <[email protected]>


----------



## yongkun

rruff said:


> Check here: http://archteks.en.alibaba.com/prod...ad_TR_FM102CF_.html?tracelog=cgsotherproduct1


Sorry can i ask you something:

Whats the difference betweeen 

http://archteks.en.alibaba.com/prod...ad_TR_FM102CF_.html?tracelog=cgsotherproduct1

and 

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/301...ad-bike-frame-and-fork-FM-R830SL-FK-R830.html

Are they of different carbon fibre property? Looks to me like the same geometry. Are the standard different thats why theres a price difference?


----------



## rruff

Beats me... but I'd guess that they are exactly the same frame.


----------



## rruff

mcrdave said:


> Ok, quick teaser on my FM015. Created my own graphics and got them cut in clear gloss. Looks great against the matt black paint, will finish it tonight


Details on how you made those, please...


----------



## bikensteve901

Just built my FM015 from Hong Fu. Trying to figure out how to post a pic. It is a size 55, painted with SRAM Force, Look Keo pedals, Mavic Ksyrium ES wheels and 3t Ergonova Bar and stem, Selle Italia SLR xp saddle on temporaty seatpost - still waiting on Carbon post which was back ordered. Will be riding it this weekend. Fit and Finish is clean, no major problems with te build, It was actually kind of fun putting it together. Used the 1.5" pvc pipe to seat the Crown race on the fork - neat little trick i picked up on a previous post. If I figure out to post pics, I will.


----------



## yurl

looks awesome.
+1 on the details. I've ordered an FM015 in matte as well so I'd be keen to follow in your footsteps.


----------



## yongkun

yongkun said:


> Sorry can i ask you something:
> 
> Whats the difference betweeen
> 
> http://archteks.en.alibaba.com/prod...ad_TR_FM102CF_.html?tracelog=cgsotherproduct1
> 
> and
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/301...ad-bike-frame-and-fork-FM-R830SL-FK-R830.html
> 
> Are they of different carbon fibre property? Looks to me like the same geometry. Are the standard different thats why theres a price difference?


i have checked with xpace, the one from Wenzhou Sunday Trade Co., Ltd. are produced by xpace. But not really sure about the one by archteks. Hopefully they did reply me, have been flooding them with questions.


----------



## rruff

Oddly, just checked the Planet X website and they are listing a weight of ~1100g for this 830 frame... which is a heck of a lot heavier than the Chinese companies are saying. I know there can be entirely different layups with the same mold, but it is still curious.

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/FRPXNA/nanolight-carbon-fibre-frame-with-fork-and-headset


----------



## XavierM

mcrdave said:


> Ok, quick teaser on my FM015. Created my own graphics and got them cut in clear gloss. Looks great against the matt black paint, will finish it tonight:




:yikes: :thumbsup: 

Very Nice!!!


----------



## yongkun

rruff said:


> Oddly, just checked the Planet X website and they are listing a weight of ~1100g for this 830 frame... which is a heck of a lot heavier than the Chinese companies are saying. I know there can be entirely different layups with the same mold, but it is still curious.
> 
> http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/FRPXNA/nanolight-carbon-fibre-frame-with-fork-and-headset


If i am not wrong this is R830 with weight of paint, not R830SL.

The R830SL is lighter.


----------



## yongkun

Got a reply from Xpace about Archteks.

"SALES
to me

I am not so sure about if it is from our factory or copy one.

We don’t normally deal with trading company for no branding products. In this case, I won’t be able to give you any promise."

Not really sure to go for the one from Archtek which is cheaper by 120$ but not really sure about where it came from whether its from Xpace or its own factory, therefore unknown frame quality or Wenzhou trading which the frame R830 SL XPace produced.


----------



## yongkun

Got a reply from Xpace about Archteks.

"SALES
to me

I am not so sure about if it is from our factory or copy one.

We don’t normally deal with trading company for no branding products. In this case, I won’t be able to give you any promise."

Not really sure to go for the one from Archtek which is cheaper by 120$ but not really sure about where it came from whether its from Xpace or its own factory, therefore unknown frame quality or Wenzhou trading which the frame R830 SL XPace produced.


----------



## missinglink

Should there be any gap between the crown race and the bottom bearing?


----------



## zender

I think it would be a laugh to get one painted to look like a Pinarello or Bianchi but with some blatant spelling error or some kind of Chinglish. 

Reminds me of a friend who bought a "Rolix" watch in TJ for 25 bucks that had a plastic bezel and the second hand fell off and was loose inside the cover.


----------



## rruff

yongkun said:


> If i am not wrong this is R830 with weight of paint, not R830SL.


I see... the PX frame says 920g right on it... which probably represents the smallest size without paint. The R830SL should be ~100g lighter. But I'd still expect ~1000g in Med. 

I find the R830SL appealing in some ways but the tapered steerer makes no sense on that frame because the downtube is quite small. Plus I wonder how stiff it will be with those small diameters. 

I think I'll be happy with the FM028 I purchased. I figure ~1100g is the "sweet spot" for cheap carbon frame weight.


----------



## yongkun

rruff said:


> I see... the PX frame says 920g right on it... which probably represents the smallest size without paint. The R830SL should be ~100g lighter. But I'd still expect ~1000g in Med.
> 
> I find the R830SL appealing in some ways but the tapered steerer makes no sense on that frame because the downtube is quite small. Plus I wonder how stiff it will be with those small diameters.
> 
> I think I'll be happy with the FM028 I purchased. I figure ~1100g is the "sweet spot" for cheap carbon frame weight.


Thanks rruff. I just found out that Cube uses the FM028 frame as well 

http://www.cube-bikes.de/xist4c/web/agree-gtc-sl_id_36197_.htm

Is it stiff? i am looking more towards a stiff bike than comfort.

*edit* Jenny told me FM028 stopped production.


----------



## lobo

yongkun said:


> Thanks rruff. I just found out that Cube uses the FM028 frame as well
> 
> http://www.cube-bikes.de/xist4c/web/agree-gtc-sl_id_36197_.htm
> 
> Is it stiff? i am looking more towards a stiff bike than comfort.
> 
> *edit* Jenny told me FM028 stopped production.


Not exactly, CUBE uses similar to FM 015 frame but with a bit different geo.


----------



## yongkun

Just realised that too. Does that means that FM015 is Cube H PC?


----------



## LarsEjaas

yongkun said:


> Thanks rruff. I just found out that Cube uses the FM028 frame as well
> 
> http://www.cube-bikes.de/xist4c/web/agree-gtc-sl_id_36197_.htm
> 
> Is it stiff? i am looking more towards a stiff bike than comfort.
> 
> *edit* Jenny told me FM028 stopped production.


I have the EXCACT bike model from Cube that you linked to. It is PLENTY stiff, and VERY stable at high speeds.
I have a FM015 frame on the way, so I am looking foreward to comparing these... Cube uses a press-fit BB: Same standard as TREK, and the fork is different. The geometry is also SLIGHTLY different.


----------



## Spursrider

*Smaller sized carbon frames?*



campyc40 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I've been following this thread for quite a while now, and thought it was time to show my latest China purchase. I have the 838 model that is shown on the XPA website above. I bought it through a friend who just started his own bike company. The manufacturers website is http://www.gotobike.com.cn
> I built it up with SRAM Force and a wheelset that also comes from China (38 mm clincher, full carbon). I'll post some pics soon.
> Anybody else here that owns the 838 model (or FM238)?




Hi, has anyone bought directly from gotobike?

I notice that their "super light road frame" (Model FM202) http://www.gotobike.com.cn/gs_detail.asp?id=500171&nowmenuid=500006&previd=500027

is the same as XPace's FMR-816 :
http://www.xpa-cycling.com/products_data.php?htm=13.html&key=1

I'm currently looking for a carbon frame with with seat tube 45-47cm or top tube 50-51cm but notice that most sellers don't have these smaller sizes  
Any recommendations will be highly appreciated


----------



## yongkun

Alright, cant wait for your review then. Can you help me compare the rear triangle? it seems that the FM015 seems very thin.


----------



## LarsEjaas

yongkun said:


> Alright, cant wait for your review then. Can you help me compare the rear triangle? it seems that the FM015 seems very thin.


Cube is also VERY thin at the rear - I measured the diameter to 13 mm. on the Cube (the tubes are round) - on the CAD drawing I got on the FM015 it is oval and measures 10/15 mm. in diameter. So slightly different shape here...


----------



## lobo

LarsEjaas said:


> I have the EXCACT bike model from Cube that you linked to. It is PLENTY stiff, and VERY stable at high speeds.
> I have a FM015 frame on the way, so I am looking foreward to comparing these... Cube uses a press-fit BB: Same standard as TREK, and the fork is different. The geometry is also SLIGHTLY different.


So, we are waiting for your finds, should be interesting.


----------



## Zootv

Well Xspace reffered me to SwiftCarbon http://www.swiftcarbon.com/index.php Not only do they have the 830SL, but the 838 (pedalforce RS3). Nice looking bikes, mainly from the ripped off BMC style paint jobs/graphics. I've inquired about pricing, as I can always strip and repaint.

Also they have a little more info on the geometries and construction and they are manufactured from XSpace.


----------



## tthome

guys...I'm the owner of both the FM001 and the FM015 and I've just purchased this frame to replace an older aluminum frame. Budget was a primary factor in the purchase but I've not seen this frame built up. Can someone / anyone give me some background or information on this frame?

I love my FM015 and ride it all the time but when I ride my aluminum frame up the hills here in Upstate SC it feels a little mushy compared to my carbon FM015 and FM001 so I decided I'd move my 2009 SRAM Rival group from the aluminum to the this carbon frame so I can enjoy the SRAM a bit more often. Bottom line, I was able to get a direct price outside Ebay for the frame/fork/headset/shipping for $350 total. That's a good price in my book.


----------



## rruff

yongkun said:


> *edit* Jenny told me FM028 stopped production.


Did she say why? If not could you ask?


----------



## rruff

yongkun said:


> Thanks rruff. I just found out that Cube uses the FM028 frame as well
> http://www.cube-bikes.de/xist4c/web/agree-gtc-sl_id_36197_.htm


That's not an FM028.


----------



## Zootv

The Evoluzione looks a lot like the FM015, maybe the FM028. Hard to tell because of the angle, however, this would be an easy cool paint scheme for those looking to paint their bikes.

http://www.bikerumor.com/2010/08/12/2011-masi-carbon-evoluzione-road-bikes-and-speciale-cx-uno-cyclocross/#more-20858


----------



## 5thdisciple

Can you ask the manufacturer to copy the paint scheme?


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

tthome said:


> guys...I'm the owner of both the FM001 and the FM015 and I've just purchased this frame to replace an older aluminum frame. Budget was a primary factor in the purchase but I've not seen this frame built up. Can someone / anyone give me some background or information on this frame?
> 
> I love my FM015 and ride it all the time but when I ride my aluminum frame up the hills here in Upstate SC it feels a little mushy compared to my carbon FM015 and FM001 so I decided I'd move my 2009 SRAM Rival group from the aluminum to the this carbon frame so I can enjoy the SRAM a bit more often. Bottom line, I was able to get a direct price outside Ebay for the frame/fork/headset/shipping for $350 total. That's a good price in my book.


Sooo . . . is the picture the FM001 or some other frame? Looks like the 001 but your post implies that it is a third (as yet unidentified) frame.


----------



## Zootv

5thdisciple said:


> Can you ask the manufacturer to copy the paint scheme?


I don't see why not. Most will paint your bike and if you supply them a pic. While other bikes posted here look great in all black, I do a lot of riding by myself and want something that is more visible. If I were to use this frame just for group rides or crits that would be different. 

However I would recommend finding a local painter as you will have more control. I know my paint job will cost more than the frame, but it will be kickass.


----------



## Zootv

Not sure of this, but in all my research I found a gold supplier on alibaba who deals in a lot of different merchandise. They had stock bikes from cannondale, specialized, cervelo. For cervelo they had p4s and s3s. What caught my eye was a s3 in the black/yellow TdF color scheme. The pic the sent me was spot on, frame looks exact stickers are exact no misspellings. For a s3 frame 900us. With SRAM red 1500. 

That sounds too fng good. But they take palpay (additional fee) and it's in stock so I would get it withing the 30 day paypal restriction. Very tempting. I am waiting for more info on what's included I the SRAM red. I really want the SRAM red tour limited edition to match the black/yellow. 

Thoughts?


----------



## yongkun

Zootv said:


> Not sure of this, but in all my research I found a gold supplier on alibaba who deals in a lot of different merchandise. They had stock bikes from cannondale, specialized, cervelo. For cervelo they had p4s and s3s. What caught my eye was a s3 in the black/yellow TdF color scheme. The pic the sent me was spot on, frame looks exact stickers are exact no misspellings. For a s3 frame 900us. With SRAM red 1500.
> 
> That sounds too fng good. But they take palpay (additional fee) and it's in stock so I would get it withing the 30 day paypal restriction. Very tempting. I am waiting for more info on what's included I the SRAM red. I really want the SRAM red tour limited edition to match the black/yellow.
> 
> Thoughts?


Sounds too good to be true... S3 for 900....


----------



## yongkun

I checked Xpace R830SL and Archteks M102CF.
Both frame and fork are the same design and same weight.

But it seems that they are both manufacturing factory themself. If so how can the specs be the same, are the technology they used the same?

I am looking at the frames being produced by Xpace cause i know PX uses them for their nanolight, so there should be some quality with the frame. 

But the information about Archteks M102CF fits the same exactly as R830SL. So are they built with the same technology? as they have the same weight, design and geometry.


----------



## dmabraham

tthome said:


> guys...I'm the owner of both the FM001 and the FM015 and I've just purchased this frame to replace an older aluminum frame. Budget was a primary factor in the purchase but I've not seen this frame built up. Can someone / anyone give me some background or information on this frame?
> 
> I love my FM015 and ride it all the time but when I ride my aluminum frame up the hills here in Upstate SC it feels a little mushy compared to my carbon FM015 and FM001 so I decided I'd move my 2009 SRAM Rival group from the aluminum to the this carbon frame so I can enjoy the SRAM a bit more often. Bottom line, I was able to get a direct price outside Ebay for the frame/fork/headset/shipping for $350 total. That's a good price in my book.


I tried to buy this frame from 88bikefun on ebay, but he never sent it. Everytime I inquired abuot shipping he would reply that it had shipped but he couldn't find the tracking number. Then he eventualy told me he thought it was lost in the mail, and he would either resend another or refund me. I went with a full refund. I went through ebay and paypal. Hope it goes better for you.


----------



## karlo

Zootv said:


> Not sure of this, but in all my research I found a gold supplier on alibaba who deals in a lot of different merchandise. They had stock bikes from cannondale, specialized, cervelo. For cervelo they had p4s and s3s. What caught my eye was a s3 in the black/yellow TdF color scheme. The pic the sent me was spot on, frame looks exact stickers are exact no misspellings. For a s3 frame 900us. With SRAM red 1500.
> 
> That sounds too fng good. But they take palpay (additional fee) and it's in stock so I would get it withing the 30 day paypal restriction. Very tempting. I am waiting for more info on what's included I the SRAM red. I really want the SRAM red tour limited edition to match the black/yellow.
> 
> Thoughts?


Be very careful, when something is too good to be true...well you know the rest. I doesn't matter in Alibaba if someone is Gold Supplier they just pay a fee to get that, you will be safer with someone that has Gold but 2+ years. I was looking for Nikon D90 cameras and found them for $200, did some research and everyone that I had communication with was on the Scam list so do your research on these companies before buying.

my $.02


----------



## XavierM

Zootv said:


> Well Xspace reffered me to SwiftCarbon http://www.swiftcarbon.com/index.php Not only do they have the 830SL, but the 838 (pedalforce RS3). Nice looking bikes, mainly from the ripped off BMC style paint jobs/graphics. I've inquired about pricing, as I can always strip and repaint.
> 
> Also they have a little more info on the geometries and construction and they are manufactured from XSpace.


Loving the paint scheme on these bikes. Let us know pricing when you receive word! :thumbsup:


----------



## XavierM

campyc40 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I've been following this thread for quite a while now, and thought it was time to show my latest China purchase. I have the 838 model that is shown on the XPA website above. I bought it through a friend who just started his own bike company. The manufacturers website is http://www.gotobike.com.cn
> I built it up with SRAM Force and a wheelset that also comes from China (38 mm clincher, full carbon). I'll post some pics soon.
> Anybody else here that owns the 838 model (or FM238)?


Whats the weight of the full build? Post pics! Great looking logo and frame looks great in matte.:thumbsup: Price?


----------



## berndrea

ride update: I have been riding the Kouta Kredo frame, and love it. No doubt that I will buy another frame for a rain bike. Still performs like the day I put it together. Right now I have done around 2100 miles


----------



## yongkun

berndrea said:


> ride update: I have been riding the Kouta Kredo frame, and love it. No doubt that I will buy another frame for a rain bike. Still performs like the day I put it together. Right now I have done around 2100 miles



Is that the FM01 Frame?


----------



## yongkun

By the way anyone can help me match this frameset?


















Looks to me to be the frameset Soul are selling, but i dont have USD1200 to pay for the one in Soul and i wish to custom paint it myself. Anyone know the dealer that sell this frameset and the frame model?


----------



## rruff

Not the same... check the rear of the top tube and the head tube.


----------



## tonkabaydog

Zootv said:


> Not sure of this, but in all my research I found a gold supplier on alibaba who deals in a lot of different merchandise. They had stock bikes from cannondale, specialized, cervelo. For cervelo they had p4s and s3s. What caught my eye was a s3 in the black/yellow TdF color scheme. The pic the sent me was spot on, frame looks exact stickers are exact no misspellings. For a s3 frame 900us. With SRAM red 1500.
> 
> That sounds too fng good. But they take palpay (additional fee) and it's in stock so I would get it withing the 30 day paypal restriction. Very tempting. I am waiting for more info on what's included I the SRAM red. I really want the SRAM red tour limited edition to match the black/yellow.
> 
> Thoughts?


Run for the hills...... SRAM Red cost is around $1200-1300


----------



## cbellamore

Zootv said:


> I don't see why not. Most will paint your bike and if you supply them a pic. While other bikes posted here look great in all black, I do a lot of riding by myself and want something that is more visible. If I were to use this frame just for group rides or crits that would be different.
> 
> However I would recommend finding a local painter as you will have more control. I know my paint job will cost more than the frame, but it will be kickass.


Zoot 
I would not waste my money having a local painter paint your frame 

if you are just a little handy you could do it very easily yourself and save yourself a ton of money 

the technology on most quality spray can paints is very good these days, 
find a paint scheme you like or come up with your own and you could do a 3 or 4 color paint scheme for very cheap 

or if you have a compressor you can buy a fairly cheap spray gun and use that instead 

just make sure you buy good quality paint supplies and use good quality tape to mask off your lines on the bike 
its very very easy to accomplish 
if you have a local autobody supply house you should stop in and talk to them 
most guys are very helpful picking you out easy to use and inexpensive paint supplys


----------



## LarsEjaas

cbellamore said:


> Zoot
> I would not waste my money having a local painter paint your frame
> 
> if you are just a little handy you could do it very easily yourself and save yourself a ton of money
> 
> the technology on most quality spray can paints is very good these days,
> find a paint scheme you like or come up with your own and you could do a 3 or 4 color paint scheme for very cheap
> 
> or if you have a compressor you can buy a fairly cheap spray gun and use that instead
> 
> just make sure you buy good quality paint supplies and use good quality tape to mask off your lines on the bike
> its very very easy to accomplish
> if you have a local autobody supply house you should stop in and talk to them
> most guys are very helpful picking you out easy to use and inexpensive paint supplys


You REALLY got 2 B kidding! Most Chinese trading companies can do a lot of different paintjobs for small prices compared to what you would pay locally, and from what I have seen these guys generally have great skills - I would go for the Chinese paint jobs if I was after painted frames...


----------



## cbellamore

LarsEjaas said:


> You REALLY got 2 B kidding! Most Chinese trading companies can do a lot of different paintjobs for small prices compared to what you would pay locally, and from what I have seen these guys generally have great skills - I would go for the Chinese paint jobs if I was after painted frames...


I dont think the quality of the chinese paint jobs is anything special from some of the reviews on here it seems they chip and scratch pretty easy 

I was saying a local painter will charge you an arm and a leg to do a paint job 

but if you bought the materials yourself and did the paint yourself it would not cost you much at all and is pretty easy to do 

You could get enough materials to do about 2 or 3 colors for under $50 and it would be probably a lot more durable than the way they come from the factory


----------



## esenkay

XavierM said:


> Loving the paint scheme on these bikes. Let us know pricing when you receive word! :thumbsup:




+2, those Swift frames are looking sweet.


----------



## mcrdave

Got a bit furtjher with the build. My LBS said they had a nightmare fitting the headset. Still not perfect as the gap is larger than normal on the bottom race but I can live with it. Only problem I encountered was with the rear brake, couldnt get the bolt through without a bit of persistence but these are planet x brakes. A normal sram or shimano would probably fit ok.

Final bit arrive Monday (hopefully!)


----------



## tarzan13

yongkun said:


> By the way anyone can help me match this frameset?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks to me to be the frameset Soul are selling, but i dont have USD1200 to pay for the one in Soul and i wish to custom paint it myself. Anyone know the dealer that sell this frameset and the frame model?


https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360290257276

Does indeed look like a nice frame. Is there anyone out there that owns this frame and can share their experience?
Thanks


----------



## yongkun

Anyone can help me match the frameset Soul is selling? Thanks!


----------



## tthome

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Sooo . . . is the picture the FM001 or some other frame? Looks like the 001 but your post implies that it is a third (as yet unidentified) frame.


yes, it's a 3rd undefined frame. I have the FM001 (kuota kredo clone) and the FM015 (Cervelo R3'ish) frame already built up and riding them both. This frame I'm not sure who's built it up or what it's similar to. It will be my 3rd chinese carbon frame. I'm removing the SRAM 2009 Rival Group from an older 2005 Felt F65 Aluminum/Carbon frame to this new undefined one.


----------



## yurl

yongkun said:


> Sounds too good to be true... S3 for 900....


yeah does sound a bit too good to be true. over here the Red groupset alone will cost more than $1500USD.


----------



## zender

I've been riding this "first generation" Chinese TT bike for about 6 months now, about 500 total miles, nothing longer than 40Km at a time . This is an ISP model that is still sold on ebay. I built it up with some stuff I had lying around and a ton of used stuff off ebay.

My thoughts on it so far
ISP: not a big fan. Yeah, it looks trick but it's nice to be able to make small adjustments to the seat height over time. True, you can cut it shorter, but good luck doing 1mm increments of that. You can also shim it with the bits you've cut (or paper towles, whatever you want to stuff in there) to make it longer, but it just isn't going to be as solid as a nice straight cut. The seatclamp is ridiculously heavy as well and the bolts thread into raw carbon so you have to be very careful tightening them or ruin the threads.
Frame construction: other than the weird criss-crossing of cables on internal routing, it seems to be holding up quite well. I've hit a few nasty potholes in the life of this bike and the carbon steerer tube, fork, frame have no issues, at least nothing visible.
Sizing: This has been the biggest problem and is a given when ordering a bike that you can't sit on in a shop. This frame was purchased when it was only available in 54cm (with a 54cm top tube per the geometry chart). I'm 5'10" with a 82cm inseam and ride a 56 cm top-tube road bike and the 54cm is just way to long for me to get my shoulders straight over my elbows in an aero position. You can see I have the saddle as far forward as it will go and have a shorty stem to make up for this. Part of the problem is that my bars don't allow the pads to go any further back too.
The ride: It's on par with other carbon frames I've tried. As most people by now have figured out, the ride on a bike has way more to do with wheels, tires and tire pressure. All other things being equal, this thing does what it was designed to do.


----------



## scblur

mcrdave said:


> Got a bit furtjher with the build. My LBS said they had a nightmare fitting the headset. Still not perfect as the gap is larger than normal on the bottom race but I can live with it. Only problem I encountered was with the rear brake, couldnt get the bolt through without a bit of persistence but these are planet x brakes. A normal sram or shimano would probably fit ok.
> 
> Final bit arrive Monday (hopefully!)


Beautiful, now get back there and finish it, take more photos!!!


----------



## rruff

mcrdave said:


> Got a bit further with the build.


Very tastefully done.


----------



## philischen

mcrdave said:


> Got a bit furtjher with the build. My LBS said they had a nightmare fitting the headset. Still not perfect as the gap is larger than normal on the bottom race but I can live with it. Only problem I encountered was with the rear brake, couldnt get the bolt through without a bit of persistence but these are planet x brakes. A normal sram or shimano would probably fit ok.
> 
> Final bit arrive Monday (hopefully!)




What size is it??? 58??? Thanks 

Oh, and by the way. Really really cool bike :thumbsup:


----------



## ultraman6970

mcrdave what color is that one? like pearl blue or something?


----------



## mcrdave

Hi Guys, sorry for the delay.
It is a 58 yep. It's matt black but my iphone decided to make it look blue for some reason!


----------



## XavierM

http://www.swiftcarbon.com/category/complete-road/830-sl-response.html

Does anyone know what frame this is? Has anyone identified it?


----------



## admammo

dmabraham - I hope you get your refund.. I purchased that frame via that buyer (I even went outside ebay) and I got it within 4 days.

I love the frame - this is my first roadie (I mtb and commute a lot) so I have nothing to compare to, but it rides great and I feel confident on it.


----------



## mcrdave

Looks quite like this, but don't know the original:

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q...gh-modulus-carbon-frame-with-fork-and-headset


----------



## tthome

admammo said:


> dmabraham - I hope you get your refund.. I purchased that frame via that buyer (I even went outside ebay) and I got it within 4 days.
> 
> I love the frame - this is my first roadie (I mtb and commute a lot) so I have nothing to compare to, but it rides great and I feel confident on it.


Great to see this frame built up. As I own both the FM001 and the FM015, this frame seems to be a mixture of the two and I look forward to getting it. The headtube, the top tube and the seat stay look very similar to the FM001. The intersection of the seat tube, seat stay and top tube looks to be a bit beefier than other frames I have or have seen but the tubes themselves looks to be the same as the FM001. The lower part of this frame (downtube, chainstay and the seat tube) look to be similar to another frame. Looking at the chainstays from BB to rear drop out this frame appears to have more of wishbone chainstay instead of the straight chainstay on the FM015. The downtube appears to be similar to my FM015. The more I look at all these variations of chinese carbon frames it appears that the mold makers take a bit from each mold and make something entirely new. It's "carbon witch craft" I tell you. 

If this frame turns out to be anywhere near as comfortable as my FM001 and as racey as my FM015 I'll be satisfied. I paid $350 for the frame / fork / headset / shipping. That's a deal in my book. I just received the shipping infromation from the seller. I too purhcased outside ebay. We'll see how it goes. I plan to theme this bike around SRAM and the little red tree frog they have as their mascot. Vinyl sticker shop here I come.


----------



## tthome

:idea: 

I was thinking of doing a quick youtube video of the FM001 and the FM015 bikes I've build up (and the other unknown one that we've been discussing) so that people considering these frames could get a better idea of what they look like via video. I have a small HD Panasonic video camera I could use so the quality should be good enough.

I'm not the video editing type, but I can do a quick 1 to 2 minute video of each bike and people can see it from different angles. I for one was shocked when I received my FM001 and noticed one side of the chain stay was flattened compared to the other side. This was by design as the flat area was supposed to increase lateral stiffness...all it does for me is occasionally hit my left shoe when I ride, kinds gets in the way at times.

Anyhow, if I do these videos what's some of the key things you folks might want me to get close ups of or see? Again, 2 will already be built up. The 3rd frame I'll be building I'll get videos of the build before/after. I'm not taking the bikes I've already built up apart for these videos.


----------



## yongkun

XavierM said:


> http://www.swiftcarbon.com/category/complete-road/830-sl-response.html
> 
> Does anyone know what frame this is? Has anyone identified it?


Its a R830SL by Xpace.

Archteks have them as well:
http://archteks.en.alibaba.com/prod...ad_TR_FM102CF_.html?tracelog=cgsotherproduct1


----------



## XavierM

yongkun said:


> Its a R830SL by Xpace.
> 
> Archteks have them as well:
> http://archteks.en.alibaba.com/prod...ad_TR_FM102CF_.html?tracelog=cgsotherproduct1



Spot on!! Thanks!! :thumbsup:


----------



## karlo

tthome said:


> :idea:
> 
> I was thinking of doing a quick youtube video of the FM001 and the FM015 bikes I've build up (and the other unknown one that we've been discussing) so that people considering these frames could get a better idea of what they look like via video. I have a small HD Panasonic video camera I could use so the quality should be good enough.
> 
> I'm not the video editing type, but I can do a quick 1 to 2 minute video of each bike and people can see it from different angles. I for one was shocked when I received my FM001 and noticed one side of the chain stay was flattened compared to the other side. This was by design as the flat area was supposed to increase lateral stiffness...all it does for me is occasionally hit my left shoe when I ride, kinds gets in the way at times.
> 
> Anyhow, if I do these videos what's some of the key things you folks might want me to get close ups of or see? Again, 2 will already be built up. The 3rd frame I'll be building I'll get videos of the build before/after. I'm not taking the bikes I've already built up apart for these videos.



From above, I always want to see that angle as i will be looking at that for hours when riding. Also from the bottom, front and back we always see them posted from the side.



I am talking about the bike :wink5:


----------



## yongkun

XavierM said:


> Spot on!! Thanks!! :thumbsup:












Anyone can help me match?


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

tthome said:


> :idea:
> 
> I was thinking of doing a quick youtube video of the FM001 and the FM015 bikes I've build up (and the other unknown one that we've been discussing) so that people considering these frames could get a better idea of what they look like via video. I have a small HD Panasonic video camera I could use so the quality should be good enough.
> 
> I'm not the video editing type, but I can do a quick 1 to 2 minute video of each bike and people can see it from different angles. I for one was shocked when I received my FM001 and noticed one side of the chain stay was flattened compared to the other side. This was by design as the flat area was supposed to increase lateral stiffness...all it does for me is occasionally hit my left shoe when I ride, kinds gets in the way at times.
> 
> Anyhow, if I do these videos what's some of the key things you folks might want me to get close ups of or see? Again, 2 will already be built up. The 3rd frame I'll be building I'll get videos of the build before/after. I'm not taking the bikes I've already built up apart for these videos.



A wonderful idea--Thank you!


----------



## campyc40

<Should use quote next time..>


----------



## campyc40

XavierM said:


> Whats the weight of the full build? Post pics! Great looking logo and frame looks great in matte.:thumbsup: Price?


Weight is 15.2 lbs, which is pretty decent given the large frame size and heavy pedals.
You can find more info here: www.conradcycles.com
Shoot the owner an email, and he'll give you a great price since he wants to jump start his company. He has several in stock right now, so you could have one by the end of the week 
I built up mine with a full carbon stem and handlebar, which I believe are also in stock.


----------



## Zootv

yongkun said:


> Its a R830SL by Xpace.
> 
> Archteks have them as well:
> http://archteks.en.alibaba.com/prod...ad_TR_FM102CF_.html?tracelog=cgsotherproduct1


It is $634 at Archteks (frame + fork) ... still waiting for a price from swiftcarbon.


----------



## XavierM

campyc40 said:


> Weight is 15.2 lbs, which is pretty decent given the large frame size and heavy pedals.
> You can find more info here: www.conradcycles.com
> Shoot the owner an email, and he'll give you a great price since he wants to jump start his company. He has several in stock right now, so you could have one by the end of the week
> I built up mine with a full carbon stem and handlebar, which I believe are also in stock.


Went ahead and did this but frame quote came in at just under 2k! OUCH!!


----------



## tthome

XavierM said:


> Went ahead and did this but frame quote came in at just under 2k! OUCH!!


:yikes: can get 4-FM015's for that. No thanks. Sweet frame but at that price we're talking name brand.


----------



## WheresWaldo

XavierM said:


> Went ahead and did this but frame quote came in at just under 2k! OUCH!!


He has to pay for that fancy website.


----------



## IRMB

WheresWaldo said:


> He has to pay for that fancy website.


I just ordered the RFM002 from Greatkeen. Frame, Fork, Headseat and seatpost with paypal fee and shipping came to $596 USD. It's a 30-40 day lead time.

I ordered a size 61cm. For those of you guys looking for a large frame - this may be your ride. it's going to be a month or more before I have info for you, though.


----------



## tthome

WheresWaldo said:


> He has to pay for that fancy website.


I think he needs to sell more frames so he can finish what he owes the webmaster. The few links I clicked didn't work and some even took me away from his website all together. The contact form didn't work for me, maybe because I'm using Mozilla.

I think I'll stick with my 2 Hong Fu's and my "hoo noz" carbon frames.


----------



## XavierM

I've been pretty engaged in a search for the right frame at the right price. I just came across this frame that bares "some" resemblance to the Ridley Noah...Correct me If I am wrong..

https://hkdnk.en.alibaba.com/viewimg/photo/312100274/Carbon_Frame.jpg.html


----------



## DRAwpt

Has anyone found an *aero-road frame* from these manufacturers? I got a TT frame last year and a road frame would be a nice project.


----------



## yongkun

Zootv said:


> It is $634 at Archteks (frame + fork) ... still waiting for a price from swiftcarbon.


Are those at Archteks as good as the one manufactured by Xpace?


----------



## Zootv

yongkun said:


> Are those at Archteks as good as the one manufactured by Xpace?


I dont know, but I got a lengthy email from swiftcarbon with some good info. Will post soon when I get back home this afternoon.:thumbsup:


----------



## XavierM

DRAwpt said:


> Has anyone found an *aero-road frame* from these manufacturers? I got a TT frame last year and a road frame would be a nice project.


Like I posted earlier, I came across this road frame. Contacted the manufacturer and they were able to design the paint scheme I wanted and send me a quote. They also sent me the results of the Frame and Fork fatigue/stress test. Seems pretty legit! Has anyone dealt with DNK Carbon Bikes (https://www.dnkcarbonbikes.com/). 








]

And this is the original with NO PAINT

https://hkdnk.en.alibaba.com/viewimg/photo/334088125/Carbon_Road_Racing_Bicycle_Frame.jpg.html


----------



## kronis

anyone able to find one similar to the pedalforce cg1??


----------



## missinglink

I have my bike almost fully built up at this point.

I picked up the FM028 non-isp 54cm matte black from tony @ greatkeen.

Wanted to comment on a few things regarding the build:

-The frame does not come with a seat post clamp
-the rear dropouts required some filing to get the wheel to sit in flush
-finish is 90% perfect, there are some areas that didn't get sprayed correctly
-the included headset came damaged and they were unwilling to do anything for me, it most certainly does not look like it was a result of shipping.
-the two areas with an internal cable routing were easy to route and didn't give me any trouble
-rear brake went on with a little bit of trouble at first, but I think it was a matter of paint and finish more than construction, once I spent some time working on the bolt it tightened up nicely

Feel free to ask any questions regarding.

Mike


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

missinglink said:


> I have my bike almost fully built up at this point.
> 
> I picked up the FM028 non-isp 54cm matte black from tony @ greatkeen.
> 
> Wanted to comment on a few things regarding the build:
> 
> -The frame does not come with a seat post clamp
> -the rear dropouts required some filing to get the wheel to sit in flush
> -finish is 90% perfect, there are some areas that didn't get sprayed correctly
> -the included headset came damaged and they were unwilling to do anything for me, it most certainly does not look like it was a result of shipping.
> -the two areas with an internal cable routing were easy to route and didn't give me any trouble
> -rear brake went on with a little bit of trouble at first, but I think it was a matter of paint and finish more than construction, once I spent some time working on the bolt it tightened up nicely
> 
> Feel free to ask any questions regarding.
> 
> Mike


Are you the guy who showed pictures of the mangled headset race?

If so, I'd like to know exactly what Greatkeen said about it--I mean, I don't think they just said "You're on your own, Sucker!" . . . or did they?


----------



## mcrdave

Here's mine built up, finished it yesterday, rides like a dream, just under 16lbs at the moment, could go way lighter though (when my account recovers!)


----------



## missinglink

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Are you the guy who showed pictures of the mangled headset race?
> 
> If so, I'd like to know exactly what Greatkeen said about it--I mean, I don't think they just said "You're on your own, Sucker!" . . . or did they?


My first email to him stated that there was an issue with the headset, he replied, he sells lots of those headsets with no complaints.

My second email was with a picture to show him the issue to which he ignored it. 

He replied to my 3rd email in regards to the seat post clamp to inform me that it would be $5 USD if I wanted one, but I could probably find it cheaper in the US (after shipping).

Mike


----------



## localist

My 50cm FM028 in matte black just arrived today. They shipped it out last Saturday and I got it just 3 days later (to Malaysia). Frame weighs 1100g and uncut fork is 410g. I also had to file off some paint in one rear dropout before my wheel would fit in.


----------



## philischen

mcrdave said:


> Here's mine built up, finished it yesterday, rides like a dream, just under 16lbs at the moment, could go way lighter though (when my account recovers!)


Wow, looks really cool.
Did you weigh frame and fork (after cutting)???

Thanks


----------



## Pandamantron

Hey guys and gals, 

First post here, so a little background: I'm a college student in the mid-west, and I've been riding since '08 (so I guess you could say I'm still pretty new to this whole road biking thing). I'm now considering replacing my Trek 1.2 with something a little lighter (preferably of the carbon variety), and (given my economic status as a broke college student) have turned to the No-Name Chinese Carbon (NNCC) frames as an alternative to something from my LBS. Given that I'm starting to race through USA Cycling and the Mid-West Collegiate Cycling Conference, I've turned to Hong Fu's HF-FM015 (apparently it is stiffer/more race oriented? thats what the forum consensus seems to be).

Now, the question: Jenny says that she's got the 015 in stock with standard english bottom bracket ready to ship. What exactly is the different between BSA (?) and BB30? Is there any substantial difference in the components I can toss on the frame? Any thing else I should know about that frame/bottom bracket type?


----------



## timed

BB30 is 68mm pressfit shell.. Which could offer a larger axel and narrower Q-factor.. but in fact the most supplied cranks for BB30 comes in same width as the BSA (english threaded Bottom bracket shell), which means that you either have pressfit bearing cups or spacers on the outside.. with other words, no advantage over BSA since it's the same axle diameter and lenght.

I chose BSA on my new frame i ordered recently since my experience says it's easier with threaded bottom brackets.. easier to replace bearings and cheaper tools to buy... if the cups ruins whie removing/assembly bearings, you could replace the cups.. but if you press it wrong true the frame it might be ruined... how will the frame hold up after lets say 10-15 bearings replacement and about twice as many bearings services? I'm not satisfied with the solution...

if BB30 was a wider standard, lets say as a BSA shell + the width of traditional Hollowtech2 bearings (lets sat ~95-100mm).. which offers the opportunity to make a stiffer BB section on the frame.. then i would go for it.. but since it's the same width as the current BSA, i can't see any reason to do so.


----------



## Pandamantron

Fantastic! Thanks for your help. I'll definitely go with the BSA then... it doesn't look like it'd be worth the extra wait for BB30. 

Now, if only there were a no-name chinese component manufacturer that offered cheap and light components. We'd all be set! (I'd love to build up the frame with some higher-end SRAM, but its just not going to happen unless i find it used. Anyone looking to get rid of extra parts? Ha!) 

I'll post pictures of the build as it progresses, it'll be a while before everything starts coming in though.


----------



## PLAYONIT

Take a look here..... one of the guys in the first Carbon thread built his 015 up with Driven components for fairly cheap......

http://www.sunrace.com/en/products/family/nrz








Pandamantron said:


> Fantastic! Thanks for your help. I'll definitely go with the BSA then... it doesn't look like it'd be worth the extra wait for BB30.
> 
> Now, if only there were a no-name chinese component manufacturer that offered cheap and light components. We'd all be set! (I'd love to build up the frame with some higher-end SRAM, but its just not going to happen unless i find it used. Anyone looking to get rid of extra parts? Ha!)
> 
> I'll post pictures of the build as it progresses, it'll be a while before everything starts coming in though.


----------



## campyc40

XavierM said:


> Went ahead and did this but frame quote came in at just under 2k! OUCH!!


I'm sure he can give you a better deal than that. Also, his frame comes with a warranty, nicely painted, with carbon bottle holders, headset, you don't have to wait 60 days for it, and you don't have to deal with foreign sellers. And from what I heard, they can be pretty painful and frustrating. Also, my frame didn't need any adjustments, wheels went in straight and it rides like a magic carpet.


----------



## tthome

PLAYONIT said:


> Take a look here..... one of the guys in the first Carbon thread built his 015 up with Driven components for fairly cheap......
> 
> http://www.sunrace.com/en/products/family/nrz


or go with the Perfromance Forte Group for $185 (using code 726 - 20% off) . Basically SunRace, Sampson and Forte are all rebranded Microshift. If you want to build up a budget carbon frame this might not be a bad way to go if you insist on new parts. Plus PB has a good return/replacement policy.

IMO, you can probably cherry pick craigslist or ebay for Shimano 105 parts in the black color scheme for the same price. I was able to get the FD/RD Shimano 105 in black for $50 and I've seen the Shimano black shifters go for anywhere between $100 and $150 on ebay.

alright, now back to the carbon frame discussion.


----------



## XavierM

campyc40 said:


> I'm sure he can give you a better deal than that. Also, his frame comes with a warranty, nicely painted, with carbon bottle holders, headset, you don't have to wait 60 days for it, and you don't have to deal with foreign sellers. And from what I heard, they can be pretty painful and frustrating. Also, my frame didn't need any adjustments, wheels went in straight and it rides like a magic carpet.



I wish he would give me a better price. I am building a complete bike and I am even getting components from him. His component deal was pretty good but when I saw the invoice price for the frame at 5x the amount I wasn't eager to pull the trigger!


----------



## rruff

localist said:


> My 50cm FM028 in matte black just arrived today. They shipped it out last Saturday and I got it just 3 days later (to Malaysia). Frame weighs 1100g and uncut fork is 410g. I also had to file off some paint in one rear dropout before my wheel would fit in.


I hope that was an ISP frame. I was expecting my non-ISP 54 to weigh ~1070g.


----------



## Doug.

Hello.
Re.Carbon bike frame etc from 88 bikefun.
I am considering buying the above,can any one recommend or other wise the article and the vendor ?
Thanking you in anticipation of a reply.
Doug.


----------



## localist

rruff said:


> I hope that was an ISP frame. I was expecting my non-ISP 54 to weigh ~1070g.


Non-ISP. What finish did you get?


----------



## LarsEjaas

Zootv said:


> It is $634 at Archteks (frame + fork) ... still waiting for a price from swiftcarbon.


I really liked the frame paint from Swift so I contacted Mark at SwiftCarbon. He was really helpfull and seemed like a really nice guy  

He basically explained that the same frame-mould is used by a lot of different brands: Museeuw and Fondriest among others. They have tested it in the windtunnel and it is 10 watts shy of the Cervelo P4 - at a fraction of the price - nice!

His argument is that the Carbon type and lay-up can be quite different among the different frames - only the mould is the same...

He quoted me a price of USD 990 for the frameset (this is actually with a 3 year warrenty AND crash replacement policy). However he can only supply until September 1st so if anybody want this they better hurry!


----------



## cbellamore

Doug. said:


> Hello.
> Re.Carbon bike frame etc from 88 bikefun.
> I am considering buying the above,can any one recommend or other wise the article and the vendor ?
> Thanking you in anticipation of a reply.
> Doug.


go to alibaba.com 
and check out the supplier Deng Fu (just type in carbon road frame on the search and a bunch will come up then look for Deng Fu where is lists the supplier) the sales reps are Mina and Tony Chen 
you can talk with them by clicking the chat feature on the screen when its says they are online 
its usually around 10PM Eastern Time is morning time over there for them and thats usually when they are signed on 

I ordered a TT frame from Mina last week (these are out of the Greatkeen frame supplier which a lot of people on here have bought from)


----------



## cbellamore

LarsEjaas said:


> I really liked the frame paint from Swift so I contacted Mark at SwiftCarbon. He was really helpfull and seemed like a really nice guy
> 
> He basically explained that the same frame-mould is used by a lot of different brands: Museeuw and Fondriest among others. They have tested it in the windtunnel and it is 10 watts shy of the Cervelo P4 - at a fraction of the price - nice!
> 
> His argument is that the Carbon type and lay-up can be quite different among the different frames - only the mould is the same...
> 
> He quoted me a price of USD 990 for the frameset (this is actually with a 3 year warrenty AND crash replacement policy). However he can only supply until September 1st so if anybody want this they better hurry!


Why would you spend $990 though for a frameset that you can get for $400 or less ? 

thats over double the price most of these frames come with a 2 year warranty as well


----------



## LarsEjaas

cbellamore said:


> Why would you spend $990 though for a frameset that you can get for $400 or less ?
> 
> thats over double the price most of these frames come with a 2 year warranty as well


Please give me a link if you can find a similar frame and fork + seatpost at $400. I have seen a couple of the cheap Chinese TT frames in real life and the tubes seem quite wide in profile - can't be aero...

I have found similar frame as low as $640 without paint. So yes you pay extra for the nice paintjob: I am totally aware of that  But DAMN I like their paintjob!


----------



## cbellamore

sorry I didnt know you wanted a TT frame I thought that was a road frame you were referring to 
but heres the TT frame I just ordered 
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/328366857/2010_new_design_full_carbon_TT.html
looks to be the same geometry as the swift carbon bike 
and the same as the planet x exocet 

you can do the same paint job on the swift bike yourself for under $100 easily 
painting a bike is very very simple 

for me personally the money saved allowed me to buy the rest of the components for the bike 
I just finished buying everything for this frameset and Im under $1500 including a set of Planet X 50mm carbon wheels with tires 

if you have the extra money to spend then go for it but they are probably the exact same frames


----------



## Spursrider

localist said:


> My 50cm FM028 in matte black just arrived today. They shipped it out last Saturday and I got it just 3 days later (to Malaysia). Frame weighs 1100g and uncut fork is 410g. I also had to file off some paint in one rear dropout before my wheel would fit in.



Hi localist, did you have to pay any custom tax for your frame?


----------



## rruff

localist said:


> Non-ISP. What finish did you get?


3k clear.

Wish more people would list weights. Deng Fu is advertising 1035g for this frame in 54 with clear. I'd thought they were pretty good on weights.
http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/produc...frame_and_fork.html?tracelog=cgsotherproduct1


----------



## raymonda

localist said:


> My 50cm FM028 in matte black just arrived today. They shipped it out last Saturday and I got it just 3 days later (to Malaysia). Frame weighs 1100g and uncut fork is 410g. I also had to file off some paint in one rear dropout before my wheel would fit in.


After you get it built would you provide the actual and virtual TT size.


----------



## localist

rruff said:


> 3k clear.
> 
> Wish more people would list weights. Deng Fu is advertising 1035g for this frame in 54 with clear. I'd thought they were pretty good on weights.
> http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/produc...frame_and_fork.html?tracelog=cgsotherproduct1


What I understand from Mina of DengFu is that my frame was clearcoat as standard from factory then resprayed matte black. I'm guessing the slightly extra weight is from paint. I doubt if they would have sanded off the standard clearcoat before repainting.




raymonda said:


> After you get it built would you provide the actual and virtual TT size.


My measurement for TT seems consistent with http://cheapcarbonframes.com/2010/07/fm028-frame-geometry/



Spursrider said:


> Hi localist, did you have to pay any custom tax for your frame?


Did not. I was lucky. Arrived right at my doorstep. I know another guy here who did get taxed.


----------



## rruff

*54cm FM028 3k-clear gloss weighs 1049g*

The good news is that I got the frame today and it weighs 1049g. The bad news is that they sent me a fork that was painted white and has a red "B" on it. WTF? The fork weighs 410g uncut, BTW. Oh... they also sent a seatpost that I hadn't ordered...


----------



## tizon

*im a certified noob*

could anyone help me on some good choices on headsets for my carbon frame, 










here is all i got from my ebay vendor,(https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370408016246&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT) i didnt know there is important specifications on the degree, i just thought 1 1/8 was it, apparently theres a degree 36,45 to i dont know, this is according to my lbs that didnt have anyway to fit me a headset or order the right one, my ebay vendor hasnt contacted me at all about this, i really want to continue on the build but  

any help will be appreciated very much. 
t


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

tizon said:


> could anyone help me on some good choices on headsets for my carbon frame,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> here is all i got from my ebay vendor,(https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370408016246&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT) i didnt know there is important specifications on the degree, i just thought 1 1/8 was it, apparently theres a degree 36,45 to i dont know, this is according to my lbs that didnt have anyway to fit me a headset or order the right one, my ebay vendor hasnt contacted me at all about this, i really want to continue on the build but
> 
> any help will be appreciated very much.
> t


I've never heard of this guy you bought it from; but judging from his ebay rating, he's sold a lot of these (or something) and had happy customers. You need to get him to tell you the proper specs for your headset.

I vaguely recall reading a post on here where a guy had trouble fitting a headset and it turned out that what he needed was "Campagnolo standard" which is apparently a little different from the normal . . . no idea whether that applies to you.

Keep after the vendor.


----------



## tizon

yeah thanks , this vendor is tuff to get ahold of


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

tizon said:


> yeah thanks , this vendor is tuff to get ahold of


I would send him an email with the subject: "Your ebay customer satisfaction rating"
(or whatever it's called) just to remind him that it's in his best interests to take care of you.


----------



## tizon

ill give that a shot too, thanks!


----------



## Spursrider

localist said:


> Did not. I was lucky. Arrived right at my doorstep. I know another guy here who did get taxed.


Thanks for your clarification, localist.

I just found out that Sanming Wish on Alibaba is actually Gotobike. Sent them an e-mail to enquire about FM202 price and geometry, and was quoted a price of USD500 for frame+fork excluding shipping.

From description, frame weighs 'from 870gm', has 'semi-compact design' and 'Campagnolo 45/45 headset integrated'. I wonder what 'Campagnolo 45/45 headset integrated' means


----------



## LarsEjaas

Spursrider said:


> 'Campagnolo 45/45 headset integrated'. I wonder what 'Campagnolo 45/45 headset integrated' means


Try looking at this link: http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=68

Go to the table at the bottom. 
Campagnolo 45/45 is the name of Campagnolo's hiddenset standard. But generally I think you should go with the headset that the seller can provide - It is my experience that this is a lot cheaper than buying a compatible headset at your LBS.


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

cbellamore said:


> sorry I didnt know you wanted a TT frame I thought that was a road frame you were referring to
> but heres the TT frame I just ordered
> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/328366857/2010_new_design_full_carbon_TT.html
> looks to be the same geometry as the swift carbon bike
> and the same as the planet x exocet
> 
> you can do the same paint job on the swift bike yourself for under $100 easily
> painting a bike is very very simple
> 
> for me personally the money saved allowed me to buy the rest of the components for the bike
> I just finished buying everything for this frameset and Im under $1500 including a set of Planet X 50mm carbon wheels with tires
> 
> if you have the extra money to spend then go for it but they are probably the exact same frames


Looks more like the TT bike that Museeuw has in his bike gamma.

http://www.museeuwbikes.be/index.php/nl/tt/mc-tt


----------



## Zootv

LarsEjaas said:


> I really liked the frame paint from Swift so I contacted Mark at SwiftCarbon. He was really helpfull and seemed like a really nice guy
> 
> He basically explained that the same frame-mould is used by a lot of different brands: Museeuw and Fondriest among others. They have tested it in the windtunnel and it is 10 watts shy of the Cervelo P4 - at a fraction of the price - nice!
> 
> His argument is that the Carbon type and lay-up can be quite different among the different frames - only the mould is the same...
> 
> He quoted me a price of USD 990 for the frameset (this is actually with a 3 year warrenty AND crash replacement policy). However he can only supply until September 1st so if anybody want this they better hurry!


Which frameset? the 830? 

It seems as if the R830 frameset is around $600-900 + shipping from a couple of vendors. I am not sure if it is worth the price difference than than other framesets like the FM015. However, Xspace seems to be a better manufacturer and uses better carbon materials.

What I found interesting from Mark was the R838 frameset (pedalforce RS3) is not going to be available to other vendors in the non ISP form because De Rosa bought the mold from xspace. This might be the reason why Pedalforce isn't selling the RS3. The R838 is around $700-800 US, consistent with the Pedal force group buy of $450UK. I think Swiftcarbon did a much better job at the paint schemes then companies like planet-x/pedalforce/ect. and looks better than BMCs design. 

I have seen a lot of people comment on getting bikes painted for cheaper, but to me a paint scheme is a very personal choice. While I do have my own air compressor and a high end paint gun, I really don't have the time or dust free environment to get a high end paint job done myself. I am lucky to have someone in our local cycling group who is a high end car painter and he has done several bikes for members and its just going to be easier in the long run to get this done for me. 

It's also about tradition, every bike frame I had since 1991 has had yellow as the predominate color, a color which is hard to find today on bikes. While I love the look of everyones black bikes, like mcrdaves recent build , I need something more visible as black is a terrible color for dusk riding. 

I am very tempted to get an R838, but will need to think of the total frame price tag (frame/fork from swift + Custom paint done locally ) of $1000. 

I still need to find a cheaper frameset for the racing team we are trying to put together for our local club. Might just end up getting the FM015 for those.


----------



## k24a2

Hi guys...This is my first post... Just wanted to let you guys know that i've order the FM015 from Jenny. I placed the order on Aug 6th, and i just received it yesterday on the 17th (Canada).. I paid $500 (55cm ISP-Frame+Fork+Headset+shipping)

Frame looks very nice.. haven't had a chance to put it together.. I will be transferring my old 105 component over.

I'll keep you guys posted once i have it put together.


----------



## 5thdisciple

k24a2, what paint scheme did you request for your FM015?


----------



## yongkun

Zootv said:


> Which frameset? the 830?
> 
> It seems as if the R830 frameset is around $600-900 + shipping from a couple of vendors. I am not sure if it is worth the price difference than than other framesets like the FM015. However, Xspace seems to be a better manufacturer and uses better carbon materials.
> 
> What I found interesting from Mark was the R838 frameset (pedalforce RS3) is not going to be available to other vendors in the non ISP form because De Rosa bought the mold from xspace. This might be the reason why Pedalforce isn't selling the RS3. The R838 is around $700-800 US, consistent with the Pedal force group buy of $450UK. I think Swiftcarbon did a much better job at the paint schemes then companies like planet-x/pedalforce/ect. and looks better than BMCs design.
> 
> I have seen a lot of people comment on getting bikes painted for cheaper, but to me a paint scheme is a very personal choice. While I do have my own air compressor and a high end paint gun, I really don't have the time or dust free environment to get a high end paint job done myself. I am lucky to have someone in our local cycling group who is a high end car painter and he has done several bikes for members and its just going to be easier in the long run to get this done for me.
> 
> It's also about tradition, every bike frame I had since 1991 has had yellow as the predominate color, a color which is hard to find today on bikes. While I love the look of everyones black bikes, like mcrdaves recent build , I need something more visible as black is a terrible color for dusk riding.
> 
> I am very tempted to get an R838, but will need to think of the total frame price tag (frame + paint ) of $1000.
> 
> I still need to find a cheaper frameset for the racing team we are trying to put together for our local club. Might just end up getting the FM015 for those.


Did mark told you the price was $1000 for the R838 frameset for the non isp?


----------



## Søren A

Hi
Is there anyone who have experience with the pepoel on alibaba that sells Eddie Merxch frames or does anyone now where I can get a Eddie Merxch frameset.
I have seen a lot thats sells them but they only use TT or Westen union als payment is that good or bad,I prefer to use paypal.


Sören


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## andresmuro

*Great deal*

http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/19145-180_SETSS9-278-Frames--/Sette-Sasso-Carbon-Road-Frameset.htm

At $420 for carbon frame and fork shipped from and warrantied by a reliable US entity seems like a great deal.


----------



## rruff

rruff said:


> The good news is that I got the frame today and it weighs 1049g. The bad news is that they sent me a fork that was painted white and has a red "B" on it. WTF? The fork weighs 410g uncut, BTW. Oh... they also sent a seatpost that I hadn't ordered...


Update... Mina has suggested that I strip and clearcoat the fork myself. I'm hoping for a better resolution.


----------



## k24a2

5thdisciple said:


> k24a2, what paint scheme did you request for your FM015?


Just 3k gloss finish... Was going to get the UD finish but have to wait..


----------



## cdhbrad

45/45 Headset: One of these should fit: FSA Orbit CE, CE Plus or CF. I have an Orbit CE on one of my bikes requiring a Campy Integrated headset and it works fine.


----------



## Zootv

No he did not, but when I factor getting the frame and then getting a custom paint job after it will be around $1000 or more.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

rruff said:


> Update... Mina has suggested that I strip and clearcoat the fork myself. I'm hoping for a better resolution.


Make sure you keep an eye on the calendar so you can file a Paypal claim within 45 days.

I'm thinking about starting another sticky thread that would be "Consumer complaints about Cheap Carbon Frame Vendors"

It seems like there was much better customer service a few months ago--now they are selling so much that they don't seem to care about their reputation any more.

I fully expect there to be some issue with my long-overdue order when it finally arrives--and the first thing I'm going to do is file a Paypal complaint.


----------



## tthome

cdhbrad said:


> 45/45 Headset: One of these should fit: FSA Orbit CE, CE Plus or CF. I have an Orbit CE on one of my bikes requiring a Campy Integrated headset and it works fine.


If you didn't order the headset when you ordered the frame I can tell you with 100% certainty (and experience) that the FM001 frame will need the FSA Orbit CE headset (45/45).


----------



## tthome

andresmuro said:


> http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/19145-180_SETSS9-278-Frames--/Sette-Sasso-Carbon-Road-Frameset.htm
> 
> At $420 for carbon frame and fork shipped from and warrantied by a reliable US entity seems like a great deal.


I saw that too, but if the Sette Primo Carbon frame goes anywhere near the $400 I'm going to be crushing people like on Black Friday to get one. They just recenetly had this whole bike built up with 100% Ultegra SL for $1500 w/Ultegra wheels. That was a great deal and they all sold really fast. The integrated cabling is very nice on this frame. 

Now who can find this frames distributor and can we buy it??? The challenge has been laid down.


----------



## rruff

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Make sure you keep an eye on the calendar so you can file a Paypal claim within 45 days.


I sure will, but I feel kinda stuck now. I was in a hurry to get a frame because my old one is busted, so I shopped around to find something in stock that I liked. I have the funny feeling that Mina knew they would lose the sale, unless they agreed to sell me something I wanted even though they didn't have it. 

The forks on these with the tapered steerer are very non-standard, so I can't just go buy one some place with the finish I want. In fact I haven't seen a compatible fork anywhere. 

So none of my options seem very good. If they won't or can't ship me a fork with the correct finish right away, then I don't have a bike... unless I use this fork. If I install the fork, what are the odds that I can get anything from Paypal? If I have the fork refinished can I still make a claim? Has anybody made a Paypal claim?

Really wishing I'd bought one of the Neo Exile clones from Jack Chen at Miracle Trade... he seemed like a very stand-up guy.


----------



## mdime

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Make sure you keep an eye on the calendar so you can file a Paypal claim within 45 days.
> 
> I'm thinking about starting another sticky thread that would be "Consumer complaints about Cheap Carbon Frame Vendors"
> 
> It seems like there was much better customer service a few months ago--now they are selling so much that they don't seem to care about their reputation any more.
> 
> I fully expect there to be some issue with my long-overdue order when it finally arrives--and the first thing I'm going to do is file a Paypal complaint.


That's not a bad idea. I've had a less than great experience with my order from Hong Fu. I think the biggest issue is that our little orders are VERY low priority to them.

In my case, I placed an order on June 5th for a pretty standard FM015 (with bottle cages and handlebars) and was led to believe that it was something they had on hand. After making the payment I was told that the ship date was July 5th. Well, when July 5th rolled around and I didn't hear anything I emailed Jenny and was told that the new ship date was August 8th. 

Once again the new ship date arrives and I don't hear anything so I email her again. Surprisingly, the next day I receive shipping notice along with a tracking number. The package arrives a few days later but guess what, no handlebars and missing one bottle cage (although 2 were listed on the invoice). 

I email Jenny and she says sorry, no stock in handlebars and we won't have any until the end of August. But wait, a few days later the story changes after I request a refund and she says that the bars are now ready and will ship on the 16th. Once again that date comes and goes so I email her last night and the response is a Paypal refund with the explanation that the bars were made but there wasn't enough stock to fill my order. So I've been sitting on all the components for two months but now that I've got the frame I still can't build because I've got to find some handlebars. 

While the frame looks nice I don't think I'd recommend Hong Fu unless you're willing to put up with some BS and frustration. It's may not happen to everyone but my guess is that it's pretty common. I will say that Jenny has been very nice and I didn't have a problem getting a refund for everything that didn't get shipped but the way they run their business leaves a lot to be desired.


----------



## rruff

mdime said:


> That's not a bad idea. I've had a less than great experience with my order from Hong Fu. I think the biggest issue is that our little orders are VERY low priority to them.


Maybe... but it is high enough for them to communicate and take your money upfront... so delivering on the agreement is their obligation. 

Here is my frame with the "B" fork. It wouldn't look bad if there was a corresponding design on the frame.


----------



## ntb1001

Ask if you can ship it back for a replacement. PayPal won't do anything for you. You can file a non-receipt claim, but if the seller provides a tracking number PayPal will deny your claim. Alternately, you can file a claim that the product that you received is different, but PayPal will request that you ship the wrong product back to the seller and provide proof of shipping with a tracking number. When the seller receives the item back from you, PayPal will then try to resolve any issues. 
You would probably get a quicker result dealing direct as PayPal won't be a lot of help.


----------



## cdhbrad

An integrated headset with 36/45 bearings is also referred to as a "Cane Creek" compatible headset. Those are very easy to find. My favorite is the Orbit IS. Here are the specs: 

ORBIT IS
• 1-1/8",36°/ 45° ACB
• For 42mm OD headtube
• 1-1/8" steerer
• Alloy top cap
• Angular Contact Bearings (Blue seal)
• Stack Height 15.8+ 1=16.8mm
• Weight – 64.2 grams

There is also an Orbit I with the only difference being that it is for a 45mm OD headtube:
ORBIT I
• 1-1/8",36°/ 45° ACB
• For 45mm OD headtube
• 1-1/8" steerer
• Alloy top cap
• Angular Contact Bearings (Blue seal)
• Stack Height 15.9+1=16.9mm
• Weight – 70.6 grams

Suggest you accurately measure the OD of the bearing seats at the top and bottom of your Headtube...they should be the same and determine which you need. There are plenty of other Cane Creek compatible Intergrated headsets on the market.


----------



## cbellamore

rruff said:


> Maybe... but it is high enough for them to communicate and take your money upfront... so delivering on the agreement is their obligation.
> 
> Here is my frame with the "B" fork. It wouldn't look bad if there was a corresponding design on the frame.


Hey 
that could be a lot worse 
I completely understand that its not what you wanted or thought you were getting and Im not defending any of these companys for messing up their orders 

but the reality is that basically it is what it is 
you can get the products for around half of what they cost from other retailers 
if that fork is fully functional and matches that frame and headset I would use it 

go to a paint supply house and get some single stage pre mixed white automotive paint that matches that white some vinyl masking tape that you use to lay down graphics and just tape off a similar design on the frame and spray it with the white 
it will match great and look good 

its very simple to do 
a lot of auto body supply places now offer single stage paint that is of very good quality in any color you want thats offered in a spray can so its even easier to apply if you dont have a paint gun and compressor 

personally thats just what I would do especially if I wanted to get the bike together and ride it 

if you dont want to do that you could get some paint stripper thats safe to use with carbon fiber and simply remove the white and the red B 

to the other guys that are having issues with the headsets 
get a decent dial caliper guage (they can be bought for under $20) or your LBS should have one, and have your bearing cups measured then start calling headset companys and see who has something in the size your looking for


----------



## rruff

ntb1001 said:


> Ask if you can ship it back for a replacement. PayPal won't do anything for you. You can file a non-receipt claim, but if the seller provides a tracking number PayPal will deny your claim. Alternately, you can file a claim that the product that you received is different, but PayPal will request that you ship the wrong product back to the seller and provide proof of shipping with a tracking number. When the seller receives the item back from you, PayPal will then try to resolve any issues.
> You would probably get a quicker result dealing direct as PayPal won't be a lot of help.


Of course I'm attempting to deal direct, and I'm hoping they will get the correct fork shipped out... but I'm not holding my breathe. If Paypal is useless what leverage do I have? If I send the fork back to them, I still have an unrideable frame until(if) they send me a fork with the right finish. I'm completely dependent on them for a fork, since nothing else will work. Plus is Paypal going to refund my shipping fees? 

Clever tactic... they knew that I was in a hurry, and I'm stuck and will have to take the fork and pay to have it refinished at some point.


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## cbellamore

rruff said:


> Of course I'm attempting to deal direct, and I'm hoping they will get the correct fork shipped out... but I'm not holding my breathe. If Paypal is useless what leverage do I have? If I send the fork back to them, I still have an unrideable frame until(if) they send me a fork with the right finish. I'm completely dependent on them for a fork, since nothing else will work. Plus is Paypal going to refund my shipping fees?
> 
> Clever tactic... they knew that I was in a hurry, and I'm stuck and will have to take the fork and pay to have it refinished at some point.


RRuff honestly it should not cost you more than $15-20 to repaint that fork or just add some white to your frame to match that fork, 

very simple to do and you will save yourself some headache and aggravation trying to get a replacement and save spending money on shipping your fork back to china


----------



## rruff

cbellamore said:


> if you dont want to do that you could get some paint stripper thats safe to use with carbon fiber and simply remove the white and the red B


That's what I'd prefer, but I haven't found any available in less than 1 gallon... which is expensive. Is there a spray can size that you know of? Also, I know nothing about stripping, sanding, and painting... and I'm not in the mood to be learning right now.


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## cbellamore

rruff said:


> That's what I'd prefer, but I haven't found any available in less than 1 gallon... which is expensive. Is there a spray can size that you know of? Also, I know nothing about stripping, sanding, and painting... and I'm not in the mood to be learning right now.


the easiest option honestly would be to add some white graphic to your frame that matches the fork 

very very simple to do with single stage paint 

single stage meaning no extra clear coat to add its already in the paint, 
provides good coverage and good protection (meaning it wont chip or scratch as easy as say using rustoleum paint out of the spray can) 

if you dont have a spray gun and compressor look into getting ready mixed single stage paint from an auto body supply house that comes in a spray can 
those are very very easy to use 

if you can opt to buy a cheap spray gun (like $10 on ebay) and have an air compressor look into PPG Omega paint its a single stage paint of look at a company called TCP Global they offer good single stage paints as well 

or also Duplicolor paint shop it can be ordered from Summitracing.com for like $20 a qt 
but you would have to spray a clear coat over that -but the paint is pre mixed so its literally pour the paint out into the gun and spray, then the same with the clear coat 

if you want feel free to email me at [email protected] I can help you out if you want to paint your bike, 
if your in the US I can lend you one of small spray guns (you just have to pay the shipping each way) 
again very very easy to do 

or if you want to strip the paint on the fork look at Rock Miracle paint stripper 
its usually sold at Home Depot, Lowes, etc. 

it comes smaller than 1 gallon size 

feel free to email me if you have any other questions regarding the painting process


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## cdhbrad

Alternative A: Build yourself a new set of wheels with red hubs and white rims to keep the theme going and leave the fork "As Is". Sorry to hear about your getting hit by a truck, that's never a good reason to be bike shopping.


----------



## rruff

cbellamore said:


> feel free to email me if you have any other questions regarding the painting process


Thanks for your generous offers! My first choice is to refinish the fork to match the rest of the frame... so if you can offer some advice along those lines I'd appreciate it. The Rock Miracle stripper you mentioned says it dissolves epoxy... which sounds like a bad idea. I think I'll be sanding and then spraying with clearcoat. What I'm concerned about is that it will look like crap.


----------



## cbellamore

rruff said:


> Thanks for your generous offers! My first choice is to refinish the fork to match the rest of the frame... so if you can offer some advice along those lines I'd appreciate it. The Rock Miracle stripper you mentioned says it dissolves epoxy... which sounds like a bad idea. I think I'll be sanding and then spraying with clearcoat. What I'm concerned about is that it will look like crap.


If you have a good local paint and hardware store with people who actually know what they are talking about I would go there and speak with them 
or do some research online as to what types of paint strippers are safe to use on carbon fiber 

I know the Rock Miracle is safe to use on epoxy fiberglass 
I would say that the right stripper would be safer to use than sanding, 
with sanding if your not experienced you can easily sand right through the paint and into the carbon fiber 

do some research online for a very low strength paint stripper 

also the paint from these companys is not really all that great as far as quality 
maybe just get a small thing of acetone or paint thinners and give it a couple wipes with that
you might get lucky and it might just be 1 cheap coat of paint and that white paint might just come right off very easily


----------



## parity

You could send it to Calfee and have them refinish it $20 + shipping it to them:

http://www.calfeedesign.com/refinishpricing.htm


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## Doug.

Re. Painting carbon fibre frames etc.
I await with much anticipation the arrival of the above.
Please can any person or persons help re. painting and preparation of the parts.
Possibly it is good to gently sand/carbon paper the surfaces for the paint to "key" on to ?
Now what type of paint ? house hold,enamel or maybe automotive paint (that one buys in the "rattle" tin can)
I have seen the most splendid paint work applied buy brushing,but no doubt the painter was an expert.
Any help,advise and or guidance shall be very much appreciated.
Yours
Doug. Henri.


----------



## cbellamore

Doug. said:


> Re. Painting carbon fibre frames etc.
> I await with much anticipation the arrival of the above.
> Please can any person or persons help re. painting and preparation of the parts.
> Possibly it is good to gently sand/carbon paper the surfaces for the paint to "key" on to ?
> Now what type of paint ? house hold,enamel or maybe automotive paint (that one buys in the "rattle" tin can)
> I have seen the most splendid paint work applied buy brushing,but no doubt the painter was an expert.
> Any help,advise and or guidance shall be very much appreciated.
> Yours
> Doug. Henri.


If anyone on here is looking for some low cost materials and methods to painting these carbon frames that are very simple to do 
feel free to email me at [email protected] 
I would be happy to offer any help


----------



## tthome

tthome said:


> guys...I'm the owner of both the FM001 and the FM015 and I've just purchased this frame to replace an older aluminum frame. Budget was a primary factor in the purchase but I've not seen this frame built up. Can someone / anyone give me some background or information on this frame?
> 
> I love my FM015 and ride it all the time but when I ride my aluminum frame up the hills here in Upstate SC it feels a little mushy compared to my carbon FM015 and FM001 so I decided I'd move my 2009 SRAM Rival group from the aluminum to the this carbon frame so I can enjoy the SRAM a bit more often. Bottom line, I was able to get a direct price outside Ebay for the frame/fork/headset/shipping for $350 total. That's a good price in my book.


*update.* I ordered this frame from 88bikefun last Friday for $350 total and just received it today. Overall, quality I give it a good but not excellent. The carbon weave has some uniformity issues in some very obvious places like the downtube but some vinyl decals will cover them up so no worries. The fork is EXCELLENT and almost perfect. The fork dropouts are clean and overall the fork is exactly what I'd expect. The headset that came with it is indeed a 45 degree/45 degree campy type for those curious. This headset also fits the FM001 that I have.

The frame and rear wheel drops out...ehhh, not that happy going to need some slow / methodical cleaning in the rear dropouts. Here are the pictures of the inside of the dropouts. As you can see the epoxy or putty (look like liquid nails dried if you ask me) Isn't very clean and wasn't removed properly. Also the screws of the derailluer hanger are a little too close to where the rear wheel will be placed. Looks a little goofy to me but I'll check it against my FM001 and my FM015 frames to see.

On a scale of 1 to 10, Overall I'd say my FM015 from HongFu is a 10 almost perfect in everyway in terms of quality, cleanliness and assembly. The FM001 is a 9 as it also had some carbon weave uniformity issues but not quite like this one. The Frame that I'll call the FM004/001 variant is about a 7. Nothing that a little light sanding of the epoxy won't fix. The brake holes look to be alighted. The one thing that really struck me was that the top tube is about as wide as the downtube. Basically you look down and see nothing but the top tube. Quality is worth the $350 I paid. I plan to get a youtube video up of it tonight before I start my build. I'll spend about 2 to 3 minutes on the video. Will be up tonight in HD.


----------



## cdhbrad

rruff: Seeing the picture of the fork and it not beins solid white, I'd leave it as is and, maybe, put some red bar tape on it. Otherwise, I'd just build it and ride, chances are by the time you sand off all the paint, etc. and try to refinish, it won't look nearly as smooth. Guess another alternative is for you to do all the prep and see if a local auto painter would spray a couple of coats of clearcoat on it for you.


----------



## Urb

*Painting tips*

Doug

If you are planning on painting your frame yourself and have little experience I would advise against it and recommend you have a experienced professional do the work however here are the basics.

1. Clean surface by washing with soap and water.
2. Clean surfaces with mild solvent. Very important cause the last thing you want to do is sand contaminants, like oil, into the surface.
3. Sand with 400 grit sandpaper preferably wet sand.
4. Final sand with a scotch bright pad red or green.
5. clean with mild solvent.

As for paint typically it's a lacquer base with a urethane clear or a one stage acrylic enamel. Both use hardeners that you don't find in spray cans as the hardening agent is carcinogenic and is activated once mixed.

Having the right materials, tools, and experience will yield superior results for your nice carbon frame.

Anyways whatever you decide good luck and enjoy your frame.


----------



## wedge962005

I'm appealing to the experts on this forum for some help. I'm getting into my first TT frame through a convoluted process. Long story short I'm looking for bars and really want to go with some china carbon on it. Does anyone know of one of the known to this thread dealers that makes them? I'd prefer something integrated if possible. Anyone out there have ideas?


----------



## nickl75

wedge962005 said:


> I'm appealing to the experts on this forum for some help. I'm getting into my first TT frame through a convoluted process. Long story short I'm looking for bars and really want to go with some china carbon on it. Does anyone know of one of the known to this thread dealers that makes them? I'd prefer something integrated if possible. Anyone out there have ideas?


DengFu (greatkeen) has some nice looking TT bars: http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/produc...handlebar_carbon_aero_handlebar_TT_frame.html


----------



## stevesbike

wedge962005 said:


> I'm appealing to the experts on this forum for some help. I'm getting into my first TT frame through a convoluted process. Long story short I'm looking for bars and really want to go with some china carbon on it. Does anyone know of one of the known to this thread dealers that makes them? I'd prefer something integrated if possible. Anyone out there have ideas?


fwiw, lots of bars are not legal for competition at USA cycling events (unless you are a masters and I believe that's just for this year). If these events are something you want to do, it's worth finding out if the bar is legal (the dengfu ones look illegal to me)


----------



## Zootv

stevesbike said:


> fwiw, lots of bars are not legal for competition at USA cycling events (unless you are a masters and I believe that's just for this year). If these events are something you want to do, it's worth finding out if the bar is legal (the dengfu ones look illegal to me)


I am not sure if this is changing for the 2010/11 season, but the key thing to remember is the furthest-most point of the handlebar extensions must not reach further than 75cm in front of the center of the bottom bracket axle. You can get a 5cm exemption is your physical skeleton size is justifiable. Also note the requirement that the forearms must lie horizontally - this would seem to eliminate the so-called praying mantis position recently adopted by some in the professionals. Unless someone is blatantly bending the rules, I haven’t see too many judges question peoples areo bars in Cat 3/4/5 races. Might be different higher up. 

There's other rules, but cant remember them. I thought their was a minimum width but am not sure. Also remember that if you have shifters at the end of the aero bar, the non movable portion of the shifters are counted towards the 75cm and the aero bars must be lower than the top of your seat and above your wheels. The forearm portion of the bars can not allow you to pull leverage against the bars. 

USA cycling has a PDF of all the requirements. I think you have to be more careful on wheels, as there is an approved manufactures list. And I dont think these dealers are on that list


----------



## Satanpez

Has anyone had luck with FM028 frames? Heng Fu seems to be out.

They offered up the FM015 frame, but I'm looking for a more "relaxed" bike for longer rides and the FM028 seems to be it. (5'7" looking at the size 54 FM028). 

The FM028 has a taller headtube and seems to have a slightly longer reach. I don't mind the reach, it's just that my shoe size is 11 and I think I'm going to be hitting the front tire if I get the FM015 in size 53. The size 55 is probably too large.

-Steve


----------



## wedge962005

Thanks for the tips guys. I hadn't considered the legality of the parts. Do any of you TT folks have suggestions in general then? I do want to start racing on this.


----------



## rruff

Update concerning my odd fork. Mina now tells me that the fork was sent to me by mistake... it actually was a custom that somebody still wants. So they want it back, but indicated that I must pay the shipping... or at least that is how it sounded. Seems strange. Wish I knew Chinese...


----------



## nickl75

stevesbike said:


> fwiw, lots of bars are not legal for competition at USA cycling events (unless you are a masters and I believe that's just for this year). If these events are something you want to do, it's worth finding out if the bar is legal (the dengfu ones look illegal to me)


That's because of the 3:1 tube section rule, right? (Or is there something else?)

DengFu have another pic here: http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/produc...handlebar_carbon_aero_handlebar_TT_frame.html which makes the top of the bar not look so wide, in which case it might be less than 3:1. 

It's hard to tell, but I wouldn't rule it out

Edit: I think this is the same bars on Ebay, with a really good pic: http://cgi.ebay.com/Full-carbon-TT-...me-/280551003174?pt=Road_Bikes#ht_2488wt_1426


----------



## Spursrider

LarsEjaas said:


> Try looking at this link: http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=68
> 
> Go to the table at the bottom.
> Campagnolo 45/45 is the name of Campagnolo's hiddenset standard. But generally I think you should go with the headset that the seller can provide - It is my experience that this is a lot cheaper than buying a compatible headset at your LBS.


Thanks for the link, LarsEjaas. Very informative website :thumbsup:


----------



## DrFragnasty

*Bicycle_999 eBay kudos*

Just arrived this afternoon.
Paid for Monday, arrived in Tasmania/ Australia from Hong Kong Friday.

Just in time for the weekend.

It doesn't get any better than this ;0)

Currently resisting the urge to have another 
beer and start assembling it.

Anybody had trouble with the cable lug rivet fixing?



Chris.


----------



## localist

DrFragnasty said:


> Just arrived this afternoon.
> Paid for Monday, arrived in Tasmania/ Australia from Hong Kong Friday.
> 
> Just in time for the weekend.
> 
> It doesn't get any better than this ;0)
> 
> Currently resisting the urge to have another
> beer and start assembling it.
> 
> Anybody had trouble with the cable lug rivet fixing?
> 
> 
> 
> Chris.


Who did you order from?


----------



## DrFragnasty

bicycle_999 on ebay


Chris.


----------



## cdhbrad

Good thing you hadn't broken out the sandpaper and paint stripper.


----------



## DrFragnasty

If I was to paint it I'd use automotive 2K after prepping it as per above suggestion.

I'll put it together first. I may paint it later. I may also get one of their MTB frames as well.

Still, it needs riding first before I can make a proper call.

Chris.


----------



## roshea

rruff said:


> Update concerning my odd fork. Mina now tells me that the fork was sent to me by mistake... it actually was a custom that somebody still wants. So they want it back, but indicated that I must pay the shipping... or at least that is how it sounded. Seems strange. Wish I knew Chinese...


There is no way in hell I would be paying to fix someone else's mistake under these circumstances. 

It seems that suddenly you have some bargaining power now!  I'd be asking for MY fork AND a refund to the value of the expected shipping costs before sending the "B" fork back.


----------



## Zootv

nickl75 said:


> That's because of the 3:1 tube section rule, right? (Or is there something else?)
> 
> DengFu have another pic here: http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/produc...handlebar_carbon_aero_handlebar_TT_frame.html which makes the top of the bar not look so wide, in which case it might be less than 3:1.
> 
> It's hard to tell, but I wouldn't rule it out
> 
> Edit: I think this is the same bars on Ebay, with a really good pic: http://cgi.ebay.com/Full-carbon-TT-...me-/280551003174?pt=Road_Bikes#ht_2488wt_1426


the 3:1 tube section was reworded due to english french translation and is in rule 1.3.024. New wording is: 

Any device, added or blended into the structure, that is destined to decrease, or which has the effect of decreasing, resistance to air penetration or artificially to accelerate propulsion, such as a protective screen, fuselage form of fairing or the like, shall be prohibited. A fuselage form shall be defined as an extension or streamlining of a section. This shall be tolerated as long as the ratio between the length L and the diameter D does not exceed 3.

Clears it up doesn't it? LOL You really need to make sure you get the geo specs of the bars to make sure.


----------



## Zootv

DrFragnasty said:


> bicycle_999 on ebay
> 
> 
> Chris.


nice frame, and i have seen good feedback from people who bought from him. I haven't seen any BB30 frame from them though ... post some pics when you got it built!


----------



## Zootv

anyone heard of Teshner? Australian company, but im sure these are made in asia. Anyone have any ideas or if these are based on open molds? 

http://www.bikerumor.com/2010/08/20/teschner-frames-now-available-in-the-us/#more-21072


----------



## Zootv

*Teshner?*

anyone heard of Teshner? Australian company, but im sure these are made in asia. Anyone have any ideas or if these are based on open molds? 

http://www.bikerumor.com/2010/08/20/teschner-frames-now-available-in-the-us/#more-21072


----------



## stevesbike

wedge962005 said:


> Thanks for the tips guys. I hadn't considered the legality of the parts. Do any of you TT folks have suggestions in general then? I do want to start racing on this.


many of the nice aerobars were declared illegal - including Vision semi-integrated, previous version of their basebar, most of oval concepts (A900, A901, A700 and A701), HED blackdog, previous year Eastons, etc. Some companies are now stating on their product pages if a bar is legal (but not if it's illegal!). You can also look at cyclingnews tech articles on 2010 team TT bikes since they have to conform to the rules (actually being enforced). Triathletes don't have to conform to these rules (different governing agency) so still a lot of new bars are being made for that market that are not legal for USA cycling.


----------



## cbellamore

wedge are you doing triathlons or TT's ? 

only reason I ask is I have the oval concepts bars and I do mainly triathlons that are sanctioned by USA Triathlon and have never had a problem or even had anyone say anything about the bars and a lot of other racers are using the same stuff I have 

so if thats the case I wouldnt be too worried about it 

TT's though that are sponsored by USA cycling I have no experience with


----------



## Doug.

*Frame Painting.*

Thank you so much for the good advise.
I shall make a note of this.
Re. professional painting , maybe ! the problem is as usual money (or the lack of it)
It is always very good if your friend is a painter who will do it at the lunch times etc.
I do not have friends with this profession.
All the best of wishes to you.
Doug. Henri.
The frame etc. prices are of so little money.....I feel very sad for the poor people who have to make them.
They will not be paid very many monies.


----------



## Doug.

*Very cheap Carbon cycle pieces.*

Hello.
Yes, I have also bought some of the above.
Please do not any person observe the following the way it was not intended.
The poor people who make our cycle pieces etc. can not be paid very much money !
Maybe...how lucky we in the west are !
The best of wishes to every one.
Yours
Doug. Henri.
P.S.
I do hope no person will say " the workers do not have to work in cycle or other industries with such poor pay and maybe bad conditions"


----------



## Doug.

*Carbon cycle frames and pieces etc.*

Hello.
Yes, I have also bought some of the above.
Please do not any person observe the following the way it was not intended.
The poor people who make our cycle pieces etc. can not be paid very much money !
Maybe...how lucky we in the west are !
The best of wishes to every one.
Yours
Doug. Henri.
P.S.
I do hope no person will say " the workers do not have to work in cycle or other industries with such poor pay and maybe bad conditions"


----------



## yurl

Doug. said:


> I do hope no person will say " the workers do not have to work in cycle or other industries with such poor pay and maybe bad conditions"


I suspect the workers at the eBay frames factories get paid just as much(little) as the workers in the factories manufacturing for the big name brands.


----------



## bcsride

*DNK frames*



XavierM said:


> Like I posted earlier, I came across this road frame. Contacted the manufacturer and they were able to design the paint scheme I wanted and send me a quote. They also sent me the results of the Frame and Fork fatigue/stress test. Seems pretty legit! Has anyone dealt with DNK Carbon Bikes (https://www.dnkcarbonbikes.com/).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ]
> 
> And this is the original with NO PAINT
> 
> https://hkdnk.en.alibaba.com/viewimg/photo/334088125/Carbon_Road_Racing_Bicycle_Frame.jpg.html



I have an order for a frameset in at DNK. I'll give you the full summary when I get it, I thought I would wait until that point to post so I could be succinct and comprehensive


----------



## rruff

roshea said:


> There is no way in hell I would be paying to fix someone else's mistake under these circumstances.


Last email she agreed to pay return shipping, which is ~$35.

Curtis... I was only getting the sandpaper ready, because that is what she originally suggested I do...


----------



## Doug.

"Yurl"
Which I suspect is not very much !.
Doug. Henri.


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

TT bars illegal? 

Can someone explain the rule pls... :idea:


----------



## DrFragnasty

Hi Zootv,

Pics on completion? Of course!

One thing I've found, I can't just carry the headset over from my old bike and expect it to fit.

The threadless 1 1/8th headset cup seats are integrated into the frame and the bottom of the head tube binds near the fork crown. I'll have to get a shop to remove a little from the bottom flange (I don't have a proper headset tool).

Also I need another seat post; this frame uses 31 mm. Which also means a new seat post clamp.

The Ultegra BB fits well however. 

While the shop is fitting the headset I can clean the gears/ brakes.

Chris.


----------



## stevesbike

DrFragnasty said:


> Hi Zootv,
> 
> Pics on completion? Of course!
> 
> One thing I've found, I can't just carry the headset over from my old bike and expect it to fit.
> 
> The threadless 1 1/8th headset cup seats are integrated into the frame and the bottom of the head tube binds near the fork crown. I'll have to get a shop to remove a little from the bottom flange (I don't have a proper headset tool).
> 
> 
> Chris.


not clear what you're describing, but the reason why a fork would bind at the headtube is due to a mismatch between the crown race and the cartridge bearings - use the crown race that came with the headset. Also make sure the headset is the right standard for the bike - this could cause the fork to sit wrong. Under no circumstances would you cut the bottom of the head tube if that's what you're describing (a flange refers to the hub of a wheel).


----------



## philischen

Recieved my FM 015 today.

Size 58 ISP, 3k finish

Frame uncut: 1187,8g
Fork uncut: 411,8g
Seatclamp: 167g
Headset: 85g

Pics to follow


----------



## tron

I want to get the 015 and hongfu has them in stock, but they are not able to do any painting right now. I want some paint on the bike, even if it is just white. So, i am trying to get the attention of someone at greatkeen to get a quote but no one is responding. Anyone have any luck with them? I also tried LT bikes who were really nice but gave me a month plus wait time.


----------



## Italianrider76

Zootv said:


> anyone heard of Teshner? Australian company, but im sure these are made in asia. Anyone have any ideas or if these are based on open molds?
> 
> http://www.bikerumor.com/2010/08/20/teschner-frames-now-available-in-the-us/#more-21072


Yeah.... Teschner is based in NSW and like most carbon frames, they're made in Asia. Their top frame the SL9 is quite impressive. In case you haven't seen it:


http://www.teschnerbikes.com/products/SL9


----------



## DrFragnasty

Hi Stevesbike,

The lower cup from the old frame had a shallower flange. The carbon frame is 1.1mm deeper.



Chris.


----------



## Zootv

BlackDoggystyle said:


> TT bars illegal?
> 
> Can someone explain the rule pls... :idea:


look at my profile for past posts as I posted a lot of info on it, but can email you a PDF if you prefer. I don't do triathlons so i dont know the rules for those, just USA/UCI events.


----------



## DrFragnasty

Just did a tour of the local bike shops and no joy; the guys at Cycle Torque suggested replacing the crown race with a higher one.

Getting the crown race off the forks might prove tricky. There's no way I'll be riding it this weekend. I may end-up getting some forks and headset from bicycle_99.

Chris.


----------



## stevesbike

DrFragnasty said:


> Just did a tour of the local bike shops and no joy; the guys at Cycle Torque suggested replacing the crown race with a higher one.
> 
> Getting the crown race off the forks might prove tricky. There's no way I'll be riding it this weekend. I may end-up getting some forks and headset from bicycle_99.
> 
> Chris.


whatever you do, don't file down the headtube - you should first email the person you got the frame from and ask what headset standard the frame uses, then get that headset (reuse the one from your other bike only if it is the same standard). If the fork crown needs to be replaced, a shop can do that in 5 minutes (there's a tool for removing the crown race - don't try a homemade solution to removing it as you can easily end up gouging the fork). Once you have the right headset it should be a fast and straightforward install. 

It's also possible that the fork crown diameter of the old fork is wrong - there are some different standards. If it's a tapered headtube then it will definitely require a tapered fork as well.


----------



## RoughToughHough

Satanpez said:


> Has anyone had luck with FM028 frames? Heng Fu seems to be out.
> 
> They offered up the FM015 frame, but I'm looking for a more "relaxed" bike for longer rides and the FM028 seems to be it. (5'7" looking at the size 54 FM028).
> 
> The FM028 has a taller headtube and seems to have a slightly longer reach. I don't mind the reach, it's just that my shoe size is 11 and I think I'm going to be hitting the front tire if I get the FM015 in size 53. The size 55 is probably too large.
> 
> -Steve


My FM028 just arrived this week. They had it in stock in size 52 (3k matte). I first contacted them (dengfu; talked with Mina) on the 7th and they had it shipped on the 13th.

I'm 5'7" and went with the 52, but my torso is shorter and I was worried about a longer reach. I think this should fit nicely although I don't have all the parts in to build it up yet.


----------



## cbellamore

RoughToughHough said:


> My FM028 just arrived this week. They had it in stock in size 52 (3k matte). I first contacted them (dengfu; talked with Mina) on the 7th and they had it shipped on the 13th.
> 
> I'm 5'7" and went with the 52, but my torso is shorter and I was worried about a longer reach. I think this should fit nicely although I don't have all the parts in to build it up yet.


Yes Mina was very nice to deal with I ordered their FM021 TT BB30 frame last week and it just shipped from China yesterday so it should be to me by the middle to end of next week 

now Im just hoping everything that I ordered is in the box and there are no issues with it because the rest of my parts to build all came in yesterday and today except my wheels they should be here like thurs or fri. 

I'll post some pics up when I get it


----------



## DrFragnasty

*I have an integrated headset!*

Sorted. Thanks for the advice Stevesbike.

A local shop (the last one I saw) had a Token headset that fitted. The old crown race was removed using magic (that's what they said but I heard a lot of banging and swearing coming from the back-room).

So that's all fixed and no carbon abuse needed.

The front derailleur bracket needs to be replaced now and the cable outers.

So it will have to wait 'til next week.

Chris.


----------



## cbellamore

DrFragnasty said:


> Sorted. Thanks for the advice Stevesbike.
> 
> A local shop (the last one I saw) had a Token headset that fitted. The old crown race was removed using magic (that's what they said but I heard a lot of banging and swearing coming from the back-room).
> 
> So that's all fixed and no carbon abuse needed.
> 
> The front derailleur bracket needs to be replaced now and the cable outers.
> 
> So it will have to wait 'til next week.
> 
> Chris.


whats the issue with the front der bracket and the cable outers ? 
are they not positioned right ? 

are you going to simply drill out the rivets and install new pieces with new rivets ? 

just asking cause Im expecting my frame to come next week and I want to get everything in order so I can hopefully have it together before my next race in 2 weeks and dont want to run into any snags where I will get stuck waiting on parts etc.


----------



## DrFragnasty

Hi cbellmore,

Previously I was asking the question "Has anyone had trouble with the riveted cable mounts"? or (something like that). No replies in the positive so far.

Good luck with the race. I find breathing in time to a song helps.

As long as it's not "Abide with me", "Auld Lang Syne" or "A walk in the Black Forest" (not the rave-core version).

Chris.


----------



## slabber

One of my cable stops was misaligned - I elected to leave it as-is and it's been fine so far. Probably about a 1000 kms on the bike now...


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

*NEED BOTTOM BRACKET HELP ON FM001*

My order finally arrived: Jenny's FM001 and sundries. I haven't been over everything with a fine tooth comb yet, but so far almost everything is equal in quality to what you would pay top dollar for if "branded". It's a lot better than I was expecting, frankly. I'm not one to gush, but if i were, this purchase warrants gushing . . .

Apparently the front derailleur cable is internally routed just behind the bottom bracket.

Can somebody show pictures of their cable guide under the bottom bracket shell? It looks as though I can use a standard cable guide but then the cable goes up through the carbon internally. Because my frame is painted, I cannot determine if it goes through a metal tube or what--surely not just 2 holes in the carbon . . . HELP!


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

Mysterious double post--please disregard.


----------



## DrFragnasty

*Wip*

Token headset proved pretty much ideal.
Ultegra and 3T nack/bars and R500 wheelset.

Assembled and torqued enough to pedal around.

Geometry isn't quite what I wanted but it's closer than the old frame.

I needed a longer head tube and to address this I inverted the neck
and went as I high as I could with the spacers.

It's a "53cm" frame which actually translates to 55cm.

Waiting on front derailleur mount, new gear cables and barrel adjusters
to fit the cable mounts on the down tube.

Chris.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

As a matter of interest:

I was looking at the shipping documents from Jenny, and i see that the shipping for my order cost 994 Yuan. I put that in a currency converter; and it is equivalent to US$146.

So I can see why it's like pulling teeth to get them to send replacement items.


----------



## Italianrider76

Nice ride Chris. Any drive side pics?


----------



## DrFragnasty

Hi Italianrider76,

No pics; it's got no front derailleur and would look odd like an elephant in a tutu riding a bicycle (also without a front mech.).

Chris.


----------



## Doug.

*Frame,photo's.*

Shagnasty.
Thank you for sending the photo,s,the bike looks very attractive.
Hope you enjoy riding it.
Yours
Doug. Henri.


----------



## PCMarcelino

Looks great DrFragnasty. Glad you got it almost built up.

Good luck on the FD bracket.

Cheers!


----------



## Doug.

Splendid,hope you enjoy riding it.
Yours
Doug. Henri


----------



## shn750

Does anyone know what manufacturer makes the Velocite Magnus frame? This frame also looks like the same frame as Rossetti's Murcielago. Thanks



Ohm said:


> The area behind the bb don't look the same! I didn't see that before. Should be nice to compare against the "original" Velocite Magnus model.
> 
> Velocite Magnus (USD 1700)


----------



## karlch

has anyone ordered or got the speed flash frame from hong fu it looks realy good id be realy interested in buying this frame
cheers in advance


----------



## SRS

Dont know who makes the Velocite Magnus, But it is the FM028 wich i think has been talked about earlier in this thread.

Speedflash frame is the FM015-SPL


----------



## spaakie

karlch said:


> has anyone ordered or got the speed flash frame from hong fu it looks realy good id be realy interested in buying this frame
> cheers in advance


Yes, I have the speedflash frame now nearly a year.
But a year ago I thought I had a identical bike but now more people want to buy one


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

*
PHOTO STOLEN FROM SLABBER* (Royalty check is in the mail  )


This is the best picture I could find; although it doesn't face the issue directly, I think you can see what I'm talking about.

I am concerned about the cable for the front derailleur. After it passes through the cable guide there is a little hole (looks like a phillips head screw in this photo, but it's a hole). Apparently you feed the steel cable into this hole, it follows a channel through the carbon and comes out a corresponding hole at the top and then proceeds up to the front derail, where it is secured.

As you can see from the photo, the hole is not directly under the end of the cable guide; so it looks like the action of the cable will be sawing on the carbon. Also it exits the top hole at an angle--more sawing.

What kind of protection can I use?; or should I just not worry about it. Thanks.


----------



## jkuo

On my Fuji CF frame, the cable routing is run that way as well. There is a plastic sleeve that goes through the frame. You could probably pick this up at your LBS or something, it's very generic.



ClarkinHawaii said:


> *
> PHOTO STOLEN FROM SLABBER* (Royalty check is in the mail  )
> 
> 
> This is the best picture I could find; although it doesn't face the issue directly, I think you can see what I'm talking about.
> 
> I am concerned about the cable for the front derailleur. After it passes through the cable guide there is a little hole (looks like a phillips head screw in this photo, but it's a hole). Apparently you feed the steel cable into this hole, it follows a channel through the carbon and comes out a corresponding hole at the top and then proceeds up to the front derail, where it is secured.
> 
> As you can see from the photo, the hole is not directly under the end of the cable guide; so it looks like the action of the cable will be sawing on the carbon. Also it exits the top hole at an angle--more sawing.
> 
> What kind of protection can I use?; or should I just not worry about it. Thanks.


----------



## aharrod

My Pedalforce RS2 routes the exact same way. I have had it for 2 years and no issues. I recently installed the new Gore ride on professional cables and they work spectactuarly. Did 3 hours in the pouring rain Saturday with no issues today. My rear brake cable wasn't very happy and took some finagling, but it has been on awhile and was taking a lot of dirty spray.


I wouldn't sweat it.


----------



## chocy

OK people,

Remember about a month ago, I broke my Hong Fu 015 frame in a crash, so I ordered a new frame from Jenny and I asked for a little discount since I bought one before, She reluctantly accepted and gave me 5-7% discount on the frame. anyway I waited a month to get my new frame since the frame was not in stock. After a long wait I got a new frame from Jenny. Of course I was very excited when I unwrapped my new frame. 

However, when I opened it, the frame was scratched!!. from what I could see the scratch came under all the paddings, but Jenn]y insisted that it must have been during a shipping.
anyway after a few back and forth I decided to shipping back at my own cost. I figured that If I didn't get the right frame for a little extra cost then I will always know about the imperfection and will bother me forever. I repeatedly asked Jenny to check carefully before sending so we don't have any problem again.

Pictures below










Anyway I so I sent it back and got a new frame from Jenny which took about another week and a half of lost riding time in middle of the season. and This time US customs decided to charge me $28 for it!! anyway I hoped that it was well worth the extra spending to get the flawless frame like the one I had before. Anyway I got the frame and I was anxious to get it built, I quickly checked for any scratches and no this time it looked good. So I went ahead and cut the seat tube and started building the frame. About half way into it. I realized that my frame didn't have the smooth reflection on the top tube. After a careful inspection, I realized that there is a dimple on my top tube!!!. after even more careful inspection it looks like there is a mark of sanding and filling the dimples resin marks all over that area under the clear coat. Needless to say that I was very pissed about it. 










I told Jenny I was very mad about it but she didn't really understand what was a big deal. She told me that I worry about little things. She was willing to take it back and give me a refund if I didn't cut the seatpost. but would not pay for second return shipping either. She told me as I expected that she will not take back already cut frame.

Anyway compared to my first frame it feels like the quality of these frame has gone down. I don't know if it is the new factory or what (I was told that they were moving their factory hence, the original wait time) Under the clean clear coat you can see a lot more imperfections in the weave finish (sanding mark, finger print etc.)










anyway so I am still stuck with imperfect frame, actually I would have preferred the scratched one over dimpled one.. When I am bombing down a hill at 50MPH, that dimple will be on be back of my mind.

Anyway I really had very unpleasant experience with Jenny, she doesn't seem to care all that much when things start to go bad. and if she really cared at least she should have checked carefully the second time and make sure that there would be no more back and forth (I told her so). I used to be a big advocate for Hong-Fu but now I no longer want to do anything with them in the future, getting two flawed frames in a row is just too much for me to bear. It seems like a lot of people are having a good experience buying from Deng Fu for lower price... 

With so many vendors selling these frames, I would try to go with one that actually cares. This experience made me actually want to go get $1000 plus frame to get away from this hassle.


----------



## IRMB

Are the quality of these chinese frames going down, in general - or is it just Hongfu that's making mistakes?


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

IRMB said:


> Are the quality of these chinese frames going down, in general - or is it just Hongfu that's making mistakes?


Jenny has had the occasional complaint from the beginning--now they are appearing more frequently.

Greatkeen (which I guess is Deng Fu) had no complaints at all up until the past week or so--in this short space of time there have been 2 or 3 complaints.

I guess as sales volume goes up, individual attention to detail goes down.

I got lucky with my Jenny purchase, but don't plan on pushing my luck with another buy. 

Somebody who is interested really should start a "complaints" thread dealing with these vendors--otherwise there's no way for a prospective buyer to rate them.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

chocy said:


> anyway after a few back and forth I decided to shipping back at my own cost..



Please tell us how much it cost you to ship the frame back.


----------



## chocy

The cost was $66 dollars getting the label on-line via USPS. it is $71 at the post office.


----------



## Spursrider

bcmf said:


> I am close to pulling the trigger on this.Anyone built one up? Are all the frames built with/for 31.6 seatpost and 34.6 seatclamp/ front mechs?


Anyone bought from greatkeenbike.com? This is different from Tony/Mina/Dengfu's Great Keen right?


----------



## cbellamore

Spursrider said:


> Anyone bought from greatkeenbike.com? This is different from Tony/Mina/Dengfu's Great Keen right?


I think they are the same 
I just ordered from Tony and Mina last week and I just checked my tracking number they gave me and it said it just got to the airport location early this morning so I should be getting the delivery sometime tomorrow 
I think it is the same great keen as you are referring to 
I dealt with Mina so far and so far she has been very helpful 
I will post a seperate thread or add to this one when I get the bike and inspect it 
and I will be doing an additional thread with detailed pic when I start to do the paint and the build this coming week for everyone to check out 
with some honest opinions on what I think of everything


----------



## missinglink

Build is done, frame is a Tony @ Greatkeen FM028 non-ISP

Full Ultegra
Powertap bontrager RXL rear wheel, mavic aksium race front
bontrager bar
ritchey stem
arione saddle
speedplay pedals
pinarello seat clamp (haha, that's all they had at the LBS)

weighed in right at 20lbs - not sure how people get down to 15, but this thing feels light enough (coming from a Specialized Transition Tri Bike)


----------



## DrFragnasty

*band mount front derailleur too small*

Nice bike and combo Missinglink.

What sort of front derailleur bracket are you using?

I picked one up this arvo from a reputable bike shop
explaining I had a 31.6 seat tube. Bought a Shimano 
SM-AD11 31.8mm clamp band and it doesn't fit.

Too small. The band won't close-up enough to get the bolt to
"take".

Chris.


----------



## missinglink

My FD came with 34.9 clamp, which is what you need.


----------



## DrFragnasty

Hi Missinglink,
Thought so. Thanks. 

Chris.


----------



## ntb1001

Spursrider said:


> Anyone bought from greatkeenbike.com? This is different from Tony/Mina/Dengfu's Great Keen right?


I ordered a mountain bike frame from them a couple of months ago, I posted it earlier. I got the frame, headset, seatpost. handlebars. I've had no problems with anything and the finish quality is great.


----------



## mrwirey

Missinglink,
Very nice build. No critique, but a comment. I would check your chain. I think it is a bit short. You should be able to draw (imagine) a straignt line through your rear derailleur pulleys when you are in the big ring on front and the smallest cog in the rear and this line shoud be perpendicular to the ground. I think you may be a couple-o-links shy of where you need to be. On the bright side; the bike is lighter without those links. 8)
Very respectfully, Tim


----------



## Søren A

Hi
I also have a hongfu frame but mine was wery fine in the layout on the carbon fiber,but I have got my frame painted because I dont like the cf to be wisible,now I am after a eddy merchx emx5 frameset,I have seen a lot on alibaba but is it safe to buy from there or does anyone now a other place to get one expeth from a eddy merchx dealer.There is pictures off my bike in this threat


----------



## cbellamore

Okay guys I got my FM021 TT frame with BB30 bracket from Mina from Deng Fu which I believe is the same as Tony at GreatKeen 
I ordered mine with no clear coat because Im going to paint it up myself tonight 
overall I am very happy with it theres no marks etc. that indicate any damage to the frame and the finish around the BB area looks perfect as does the rest of the frame 
it came wrapped and packed very well 
and it was to my door in exactly 10 days from the time I placed the order (they had this one in stock in my size so the wait was not long)
I would not hesitate to order another one again from Mina 
heres some pics to check out 
I'll be starting a build thread for this probably tomorrow Im hoping to have it done by the end of the week


----------



## missinglink

mrwirey said:


> Missinglink,
> Very nice build. No critique, but a comment. I would check your chain. I think it is a bit short. You should be able to draw (imagine) a straignt line through your rear derailleur pulleys when you are in the big ring on front and the smallest cog in the rear and this line shoud be perpendicular to the ground. I think you may be a couple-o-links shy of where you need to be. On the bright side; the bike is lighter without those links. 8)
> Very respectfully, Tim


I setup the bike chain with the big ring and small ring 90* angle method.

Mike


----------



## IRMB

Spursrider said:


> Anyone bought from greatkeenbike.com? This is different from Tony/Mina/Dengfu's Great Keen right?


I bought a RFM002 from Mrs Hu at Greatkeen. There is a long lead time for this frame - so I am still waiting.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

With regards to defective merchandise received from Jenny at HongFu:

I sent this email to Jenny:

" . . .

TO HELP YOU:

You need to understand that every time your company screws up an order, the whole world reads about it.

People will not buy from company that screws customer.

Here is example: (click on link, go down to post #890, about half way down)

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=2949566&posted=1#post2949566

I was thinking about ordering another bike, but I don't want to take a chance on getting screwed. Would you?

Thanks, regards, Clark" 

...................................................................................................................
Here is Jenny's reply:

". . .
hi,Clark
thanks for your email and kind link.
I only want to say this customer too despitefully of us, because the frame do not have any problem.
only because during the shipping,the head tube have a little damage.so the surface not so immaculate.
we agree to pay he do the paint job in his country. but he told meneed 250USD. this is impossible I think. 
so I asked he return the all the things to us.then we shipping one full new to he.
and when he return the frame to us,he foreget send back the seatpost head(stubby). but we need send one 
new one to he again,because each frame the diameter will have a little different. 
when he got the new frame,he told me all the things is good. and I asked he return the old seatpost head to us
his do not sent back it to us up to now.
each day ,we need shipping out many goods, I think up to now no any other famour brand's goods are 100%
immaculate. we also need customer give understanding. 
I have no words for this kind of customer. 


best regards!

Jenny"

....................................................................................................

I reply:

" . . .I know there are always 2 sides to every story. Perhaps you should join that forum and tell your side?

Because of the high cost of shipping, you should have a VERY RELIABLE person inspect each order before shipping, and make sure it is PERFECT.

Some of these guys--their bike is like their child--don't want ugly! Nobody wants ugly.

Thanks, regards, Clark "


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

I send another email to Jenny at HongFu, about quality control:

" . . .Hi, Jenny--

I want your business to do well, so I offer more (unwelcome?) advice:

You say "each day ,we need shipping out many goods, I think up to now no any other famour brand's goods are 100%
immaculate"

If you are selling wholesale then your quality control does not have to be so immaculate because a retail seller has to check everything over before sell to customer. That is why wholesale price lower.

However, you are selling RETAIL, at retail price. This means you must do the final check that is normally done by the retail vendor. 

All customers expect immaculate. If you buy anything, you expect immaculate. If not immaculate, you very disappointed and unhappy.

So your choice is to sell wholesale and think it is OK to allow some defective merchandise, because retailer will catch errors.

Or sell retail, when YOU must catch all errors.

But to sell retail (direct to customer) without catching errors will be disaster for customers and for your company, I think.

Again, I suggest that you sign up on Roadbikesreview forum (it's free) and talk to customers direct. Some merchants have done this on other forums and people really like it. Do not worry if your English not so good, because our Chinese is worse!

Thanks, regards, Clark


----------



## chocy

Clark, 

I do appriciate you talking to Jenny about this and as much as she feels annoyed with my attitude, she does need to learn that $500 or so frame is not necessarily cheap enought to expect imperfections such as what I received.

As for stubby, I told her that I was not going to ship that to save shipping weight so she can send me one without one. But she sent me with one actually stuck (glued with clear coat) on the new one.This in a way made be be much quicker about cutting my post (which I should not have done) I just wanted to tell her that I received the frame she demanded that I return the old stubby which was a news to me. Frankly I don't care if I keep it or not as it is a boat anchor of a stubby. but after paying return shipping and duty on top of that for the second one, I am not going to send back that thing on my expense. 

I did warn her that I will be letting people know of my dissatisfaction so I don't think she is suprised. I also think that these vendors participating in the discussion may help brige misunderstanding.


----------



## Safeway

I think that chocy was being a prick.

1) Clear coat chips ALL THE TIME. Throw a dab of clear coat on it and call it a day. You'll have many, many more chips in the future.

2) You paid $375. You paid $375. YOU PAID $375!


----------



## chocy

Well, OK

you are entitled to your opinion but, it was NOT just clear coat, the scratch took out the 12K weave finish. I know the difference between clear coat chip and a little gash. If it was clear coat, then I would have kept it. 

Actually I paid almost $500 (total) plus $65 return shipping and $28 customs which comes out to almost $600 for it which I know isn't exactly what carbon bikes at a shop cost but you could get a whole bike for that too. 

The reason I am more annoyed is also the fact I did get a perfect frame before from her until I had that unfortunate crash with recreational biker.. BTW that bike did not have ANY chips that would resemble what I got after 2500 miles and 9 months of use. Even after the crash!!

If you think I am crazy and picky that is fine, I just hope that it doesn't happen to you.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

My frame from Hong Fu had a HUGE amount of padding material around the headtube (and the whole bike, for that matter).

Therefore my opinion is that the person who wrapped the frame saw the blemish/imperfection/defect and made the conscious decision that it was "good enough".

Perhaps some knowledgeable folks can repair clearcoat/carbon gashes easily, but I could not. It would have been so much easier for the people at the factory to acknowledge the blemish and fix it before shipping. If there was a time problem, Jenny could have emailed the customer and said

"While packing your order for shipment, we discovered flaw in finish (perhaps show picture of blemish). We can fix but it will take x additional days before we can ship your order. Or if you need bike in hurry, we can ship it today as is. Which would you prefer?"

My personal feeling is that a retail customer has the right to expect a mail-order product to be equivalent in quality to what he would purchase in person in a store. Otherwise, where do you draw the line? 

Arbitrary quality control erodes customer confidence and, in the long run, sales.

How many people will read about this one incident and decide not to buy from HongFu because of the uncertainty that it might happen to them, too?


----------



## Bacana

It's taken me a couple of days (okay, more than a week), but I've read most of this thread (I skimmed some of the technical stuff relating to people's problems).

I just want to comment--I do business with Chinese people almost every day. I can see where the trouble arises, and no, I'm not taking sides. There are just different ways of doing business. To summarize and simplify--try to get as much negotiation completed before money changes hands (specifically--tell the people that you will inspect your shipment carefully and expect it to be perfect or whatever). Set clear expectations before you send your money. If there's a problem, voice your opinions. (The squeaky wheel gets the grease applies here.) Remember that shipping charges are going to be prohibitive, so offer a solution that will work for both of you. I don't think these people are making money hand over fist on these one-off orders, so try to work with them, but be firm.

I can tell you from experience that Chinese are much more inclined to "work with" the customer rather than just refund money. Quality control will not always meet the standards of the customer, and for this, you're getting a great price. It's a trade-off, of course, but the risk will be there. In the end, if you want the same service you'd get from whatever company is your ideal, you'll pay the price. That's just business. Seems there could be a niche for this sort of thing, something to give PedalForce some competition.

Me? If I were to order, I'd probably get a Chinese friend to write in Chinese for the negotiation process. I'm not sure I'd order from Hong Fu. I might try some of the other ones listed. But it seems Hong Fu has more complaints simply because Hong Fu has more orders. It's hard to tell.

Again, I'm not taking sides, just sharing my experiences. YMMV, of course.


----------



## mdime

ClarkinHawaii said:


> My personal feeling is that a retail customer has the right to expect a mail-order product to be equivalent in quality to what he would purchase in person in a store. Otherwise, where do you draw the line?
> 
> Arbitrary quality control erodes customer confidence and, in the long run, sales.


It kind of reminds me of an engineering saying: "Cheap, fast, or good... pick two." Not that the saying really applies (Hong Fu hasn't exactly been fast lately), but I think it's important to remember that there's a reason that these frames are cheap. Some of it is cultural and I see it with some sheetmetal shops in the US run by immigrants. They focus on low cost and quick turn-around and have almost no concept of quality. You should see the looks I get when I ask them about inspection policies.

Personally, while my frame turned out good I wouldn't recommend ordering from Hong Fu unless you're willing to risk delay, some cosmetic flaws, and even added cost.


----------



## aharrod

This is what you can expect in China for customer service. If you have any problems they usually don't care, and will not lose any money to fix an issue. They definitely don't care about us as a group buying frames, as we are not their target customer. Posting negative comments about them will help others be aware of what is going on, but it won't have any effect on Jenny, or Hong Fu's attitude. I think this is just the roll of the dice when you buy a frame direct from China.


----------



## Noah Photography

OK... So I've been looking at these bikes for a little bit now. I don't currently have the cash just yet to drop on this, but here's what I've come up with:

Frame - Fork - Handlebars: $520
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320576070460

Drivetrain sram rival doubletap: $699
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270625814854

Wheels: $220
Neuvation m28 aeros(maybe with some Hutch tubeless?)

That's under $1500 for a full carbon bike. I think that's pretty awesome.

*I've never put together a bike, so is there something missing? What are the odds and ends that I'll be needing?*

By the way, I have a background as a mechanic, so don't question my technical abilities....


----------



## tonkabaydog

Noah Photography said:


> That's under $1500 for a full carbon bike. I think that's pretty awesome.


If your frame happens to be an awesome frame, on par with several of the well known brands then it's an awesome deal. 

However, in today's competitive market, there are lots of off brand options in the $1500 range for a full carbon bike with a complete SRAM Rival Group "fully assembled"...and, for a couple of hundred bucks more...with Force.


----------



## Noah Photography

tonkabaydog said:


> If your frame happens to be an awesome frame, on par with several of the well known brands then it's an awesome deal.
> 
> However, in today's competitive market, there are lots of off brand options in the $1500 range for a full carbon bike with a complete SRAM Rival Group "fully assembled"...and, for a couple of hundred bucks more...with Force.


Very true..

On the other hand, The cheapest I've found a full carbon bike fully assembled with Rival components is $2100. Not bad, but if I can save the money, paint it myself, assemble everything, I think that's a pretty good deal.


----------



## tonkabaydog

http://www.giantnerd.com/tommaso-volo-sram-force-road-bike.html

Granted, FSA Crank and Tekro brakes........but for $1699, "May the Force be with you"


----------



## Noah Photography

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/lechamp_fire.htm

Here's a fully assembled with full force components for $1695.99. I guess I just needed to look a little deeper. Maybe I'd rather go that way.


----------



## zender

On the FM012 TT frame, which has internally routed cables, I poked it through the bottom hole and out it came the top hole so I suspect there is a piece of tubing inside the frame. I used a standard Shimano purple cable guide under the BB.

I did have an issue with the angle of the cable exit interfering with the front derailleur which I solved with a short piece of plastic tubing. Details are here: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=2375679#poststop

I agree with you on the quality of the frame. Yeah, OK maybe the QC isn't the same as a $4,000 high end branded one. But, as an example, after about a year, I decided I don't really like the setup of the FM012, especially the ISP. So, I ordered a FM018 (which just arrived) and I'm going to build that up. The old one will go to ebay or a friend. At these prices, they've become commoditized like everything else coming out of Asia.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

zender said:


> On the FM012 TT frame, which has internally routed cables, I poked it through the bottom hole and out it came the top hole so I suspect there is a piece of tubing inside the frame. I used a standard Shimano purple cable guide under the BB.
> 
> I did have an issue with the angle of the cable exit interfering with the front derailleur which I solved with a short piece of plastic tubing. Details are here: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=2375679#poststop
> 
> .


So after almost a year, there's no evidence of the cable "sawing" through the carbon? I would just grease it up and not worry about it, except I've heard you're not supposed to use grease on raw carbon (presumably what's inside) as it attacks and breaks down the epoxy or something . . . ???


----------



## yurl

@ClarkinHawaii
Well done. thanks for taking the time to help these guys understand western consumer expectations and behaviour.


----------



## zender

Not that I can see. Keep in mind that that this is a TT bike so it has low miles and not much time out of the big ring so YMMV.

Haven't heard about lubricans causing problems with epoxy.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

zender said:


> Not that I can see. Keep in mind that that this is a TT bike so it has low miles and not much time out of the big ring so YMMV.
> 
> Haven't heard about lubricans causing problems with epoxy.


Cool. I've heard so many warnings about all the ways I can screw up my carbon that I don't know what to think. I'll probably dither and hesitate and then finally just throw it together like I would any other bike.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

yurl said:


> @ClarkinHawaii
> Well done. thanks for taking the time to help these guys understand western consumer expectations and behaviour.


:blush2:


----------



## Spursrider

ntb1001 said:


> I ordered a mountain bike frame from them a couple of months ago, I posted it earlier. I got the frame, headset, seatpost. handlebars. I've had no problems with anything and the finish quality is great.


Thanks ntb1001. The paint quality looks good on your mountain bike.:thumbsup:


----------



## yurl

ClarkinHawaii said:


> :blush2:


hehe didn't mean to embarrass you


----------



## Spursrider

Søren A said:


> Hi
> I also have a hongfu frame but mine was wery fine in the layout on the carbon fiber,but I have got my frame painted because I dont like the cf to be wisible,now I am after a eddy merchx emx5 frameset,I have seen a lot on alibaba but is it safe to buy from there or does anyone now a other place to get one expeth from a eddy merchx dealer.There is pictures off my bike in this threat


Unless if you're looking for a fake EMX-5, isn't it much safer to buy from an approved Eddy Merckx dealer? I don't think it's worth trying your luck with those alibaba sellers


----------



## athletic91

ive used some scrap shifter housings to make a sleeve to prevent the fd cable from sawing the frame


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

athletic91 said:


> ive used some scrap shifter housings to make a sleeve to prevent the fd cable from sawing the frame


This type of solution requires me to enlarge the tunnel through the carbon--Did you drill it out to allow passage of the thicker housing?

I'm still wondering if there's a metal tube in there that I'm going to destroy if I try enlarging the tunnel . . .


----------



## tron

Why can't I seem to get one of these people to sell me a bike? I am looking for a fm15 with ISP. I have contacted four sellers. It looks like greatkeen and deny Fu are not the same. Greatkeen says they didn't have the mold for that frame. Deng Fu hasn't responded. Jenny at hong Fu cannot do any paint and lt bikes lady says they don't have stock. Anywhere else I should look where I might get a response back?


----------



## scblur

Try harder.


----------



## yurl

tron said:


> Why can't I seem to get one of these people to sell me a bike? I am looking for a fm15 with ISP. I have contacted four sellers. It looks like greatkeen and deny Fu are not the same. Greatkeen says they didn't have the mold for that frame. Deng Fu hasn't responded. Jenny at hong Fu cannot do any paint and lt bikes lady says they don't have stock. Anywhere else I should look where I might get a response back?


miracletrade also sell the hongfu fm-015 frame


----------



## cbellamore

tron said:


> Why can't I seem to get one of these people to sell me a bike? I am looking for a fm15 with ISP. I have contacted four sellers. It looks like greatkeen and deny Fu are not the same. Greatkeen says they didn't have the mold for that frame. Deng Fu hasn't responded. Jenny at hong Fu cannot do any paint and lt bikes lady says they don't have stock. Anywhere else I should look where I might get a response back?


go on alibaba.com around 10pm eastern time in the US 
then search for carbon tt bb30 frame it will come up like the second one down is sold through Deng Fu 
click on that bike ( I know its not the one you want but it will bring you to Mina from DengFu) 
click on the chat now Icon and ask what she can get for you 
DengFu is the same as greatkeenbikes.com 
their paypal address is [email protected] 

their website does not have all the bikes that they sell 
this was the easiest way I found to talk to them as they dont respond very fast to emails at all


----------



## nickl75

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Somebody who is interested really should start a "complaints" thread dealing with these vendors--otherwise there's no way for a prospective buyer to rate them.


I've setup a vendor review forum on my site, here: http://cheapcarbonframes.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=7

It's empty at the moment, but I'm happy to host any feedback on vendors. I'm hoping it's not just complaints, though - I've heard positive stories here too.


----------



## Satanpez

I found that they respond quickly to emails after 10pm, basically not at all before then. Makes sense, I don't expect too many answers from emails before 9am in the US.

-Steve



cbellamore said:


> their website does not have all the bikes that they sell
> this was the easiest way I found to talk to them as they dont respond very fast to emails at all


----------



## tron

It's weird that deny Fu is greatkeen since greatkeen told me twice that they didn't have the mold for the 15. At first I thought it was a miscommunication but they reiterated that I look at their website and it's not on there


----------



## tron

Double post


----------



## Spursrider

Great Keen/DengFu is not Greatkeenbikes.com. They are different companies.

DengFu (also referred to as Great Keen, hence the confusion) : Tony or Mina
http://dengfubikes.com/product.asp?id=13&classid=21 


Greatkeenbikes : Ms Hu
http://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/main.php


----------



## tron

Weird. Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## athletic91

ClarkinHawaii said:


> This type of solution requires me to enlarge the tunnel through the carbon--Did you drill it out to allow passage of the thicker housing?
> 
> I'm still wondering if there's a metal tube in there that I'm going to destroy if I try enlarging the tunnel . . .



nope, i actually used a penknife to just extract the plastic sleeve inside the housing.
no drilling required, nice fit


----------



## elviento

It's interesting people demand to be treated like a king when they are paying the price of a handlebar for a frame. Look at all these folks typing "PERFECT" and "IMMACULATE" in block letters. 

Don't forget, the "no questions asked" return policy costs money. The satisfaction guarantee costs money. The crash testing and TV advertising cost money. Super stringent QC also costs money. 

All these things add up. If a vendor is selling the stuff at 1/3 a similar product is sold for in the US/EU/AU,etc., then she will have to cut corners on these things. In the US, for example, there are consumer protection laws, and vendors factor the compliance costs into pricing. For an overseas vendor these laws don't apply. It appears Hongfu is generally of decent quality and reputation except for minor issues which do not appear to be that outrageous. 

When I walk into a mercedes dealership to service my SL, I get food, drinks, magazines, smiles, etc. Of course the oil change costs me $300. If I go to a low end brand dealership for a $30 oil change, I expect far less. 

I just want to remind people of the basic practical economics. This is NOT a moral issue.


----------



## Italianrider76

elviento said:


> When I walk into a mercedes dealership to service my SL, I get food, drinks, magazines, smiles, etc. Of course the oil change costs me $300. If I go to a low end brand dealership for a $30 oil change, I expect far less.


Reminds just how stupid owning a Mercedes really is.


----------



## rruff

elviento said:


> If a vendor is selling the stuff at 1/3 a similar product is sold for in the US/EU/AU,etc., then she will have to cut corners on these things.


Enough with the exaggerating. Similar frames are sold in the US for maybe ~50% more. When buying direct from China you cut out the retailer... who must make US wages... and instead make the entire transaction via Chinese wages... thus the discount is pretty sensible for similar service. If you were a retailer, you'd demand QC on the manufacturer/wholesaler end too... you wouldn't just eat defective frames and poor finishes... you'd send them back. 

It certainly is an ethical issue if the seller is shipping obviously defective product, then asking the buyer to pay shipping and other charges to get it resolved. This is bad business any way you look at it. If they are selling blems they should be stated that way.


----------



## campyc40

rruff said:


> It certainly is an ethical issue if the seller is shipping obviously defective product, then asking the buyer to pay shipping and other charges to get it resolved. This is bad business any way you look at it. If they are selling blems they should be stated that way.


Ethical or unethical, fact is, communicating with China is difficult, there are payment, quality and refund issues. So it becomes a matter of risk. Pay more at your local store with all the services you require, or accept the risk and have a frame shipped from Asia. Next time though, I'll save up a bit more and get a nicely finished, high quality brand frame.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

rruff said:


> Enough with the exaggerating. Similar frames are sold in the US for maybe ~50% more. When buying direct from China you cut out the retailer... who must make US wages... and instead make the entire transaction via Chinese wages... thus the discount is pretty sensible for similar service. If you were a retailer, you'd demand QC on the manufacturer/wholesaler end too... you wouldn't just eat defective frames and poor finishes... you'd send them back.
> 
> It certainly is an ethical issue if the seller is shipping obviously defective product, then asking the buyer to pay shipping and other charges to get it resolved. This is bad business any way you look at it. If they are selling blems they should be stated that way.


I agree with this poster.

On the other hand, I can see Jenny's (and other manufacturer's) point--they have to train new people to work on the carbon--they make cosmetic errors--materials are expensive--if the frame is functional, they naturally want to get some $$ for it.

I think a good solution would be to offer two different "finish levels"--one immaculate and one that would have blemishes and would be considered "seconds" in the USA. Naturally the guy who needs immaculate would pay a little more; the guy who's not so much concerned with looks would pay a little less. Different price levels could be adjusted so that the manufacturer gets rid of the seconds and the guy who NEEDS immaculate will not have that sickening disappointment of having drawn a "lemon". 

The idea that every purchase is a gamble is what really turns me off. People want more control over what they actually receive.


----------



## chocy

I whole heartdly agree with Clark,
If it was generally expected to have unflawed frame then i would not have bought one.
I think I was patient enough to say one return shipping was what I could tolerate for the risk. but considering how many people are happy first time, two in a row was a bit much to take. And yes I would have paid a little more if there were a different tiers for level of quality. But again next time I may save a little more for a piece of mind. (or get at least two frames to make sure I have a good one?? may be I didn't learn my lesson. but I love 015SPL frame!!)


----------



## HeluvaSkier

FWIW, I have ordered a few frames from Jenny and all have been spot-on to what I ordered. That said, the best frame I have received in terms of finish quality was the frame that I special ordered with a unique finish. The wait time was significant (done over the winter so I didn't care about time) but the frame is flawless [well, it was flawless until I crashed it]. Perhaps the best way to ensure a pristine finish is to order something unique - or order it unfinished and paint and clear coat it yourself.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

If I buy another frame I will send Jenny email first:

"OK, Jenny, I want to buy IMMACULATE frame, fork, whatnot. I want there to be absolutely NO CHANCE of blemish or imperfection. This is *very important* to me.

Because I WILL NOT ACCEPT FRAME WITH BLEMISH, I am willing to pay higher price, if necessary.

If you are not willing to do this, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me now.

Are you willing to do this for me?

How much would cost FM015 (and fork FKxxx and headset and whatnot) guaranteed by you personally to be perfect?

Thanks, regards, Clark"

...................................................................................................
I think this approach would have very high probability of success, with cost still significantly lower than US retail.


----------



## rruff

ClarkinHawaii said:


> I think a good solution would be to offer two different "finish levels"--one immaculate and one that would have blemishes and would be considered "seconds" in the USA.


Or "seconds" in China as well. I'm pretty certain that *somebody* is inspecting these frames, and if they are cosmetic blems then they can be sold as such. Expecting the customer to take the chance and then foot the bill, is no way to run a business... unless you don't care about your reputation.


----------



## rruff

ClarkinHawaii said:


> How much would cost FM015 (and fork FKxxx and headset and whatnot) guaranteed by you personally to be perfect?


I think you are possibly asking for trouble there, because nothing is perfect. I'm sure I could find half a dozen flaws on any of these frames in a few minutes. It is a matter of degree. But if there is nothing cosmetic that is obvious at a distance of a few feet, and the structure is good, then that would be fine with me. My frame has some scratches and chips in the clearcoat and slight dimpling of the downtube near the bottle boses, but it's good enough IMO.


----------



## chocy

Well I don't know, it seems that Jenny doesn't really have control over what is getting packed because I did ask her to check the second time. I agree many short comings of what they send could be fixed unless you get unfortunate like me where you got serious scratch (ok may be it could be fixed but I am never good at paint jobs) or dimples in the middle of top tube (not near any bosses or what not) which makes it somewhat questionable structurally. (I think it is probabaly OK but I am only 90% sure and that 10% of unsure side creeps up when going downhill, after all top tube is in compression and think about crushing aluminum can with or without dimples)

Again I may be really paranoid but when you are relying on your well being on this piece of carbon (material known to create catastropic failure) you do get a litte picky whether it is bit of scrath or a dimple.

and more thing, Jenny did say they were moving their factory and I am assuming that they have expanded their facility and it is possible that general production quality is not quite up to where they were before the move.. now this is purely a speculation on my part.


----------



## missinglink

I had mine painted and it's pretty damn flawless.

I've put about 50-60 miles on a Greatkeen FM028 and I have to say I am thoroughly impressed. Coming from a Specialized Transition, the ride is _so_ many millions of times nicer!


----------



## mrwirey

*I've been pretty fortunate I guess...*

I got a UD 58cm FM015 from Jenny a couple of months ago and it is beautiful. I built it up with Campagnolo Chorus and I love it. The only issue with the FM015 was that it came BB30 although I requested an English BB. Not a big deal and Jenny let me know this prior to shipping the frame. She offered to hold off on shipping if I was hard over on the English BB. I told her to ship as I had already waited 50-odd days as I remember.I decided to purchase a 56cm FM028 from Mina at GreatKeen to see how that worked out...all went according to plan. The two frames have an almost identical stack and reach. I need to run a 10mm longer stem on the FM028 as compared to the FM015. I decided on a matte black finish on top of 12K weave for the FM028. The bike came with a flawless matte finish and seatpost to match. The price for the FM028 'out the door' and to my door was $551 with fork, headset, seatpost, paint, and spare derailleur hanger...about the same as my FM015. No customs fees. The matte paint was $44 of the total cost. I am building the bike with a bunch of parts I have in the garage; however, most are new or near new. The list: 2010 Campagnolo Centaur Shifters, 2006 Camagnolo Record Brakes (Silver), 2006 Camagnolo Record BB and Crank (175mm, 39/53), 2008 Camagnolo Chorus Front Derailleur, Ritchey WCS Stem (26.0mm x 110mm for now), Easton EC90 Bars (26.0 x 44cm; shallow drop), Shimano Dura Ace rear Derailleur (JTEK Shiftmate for Campagnolo compatibility), HED Alps Deep Carbon Wheels, Shimano Dura Ace Cassette (12-25), Selle San Marco Carbon Saddle (125 grams), Pro Bar Tape (Black), and Campagnolo Cables. Current pedals are Look Laurent Jalabert signature (Black), but they are freakin' heavy so they will be replaced by a lighter Look model (to be determined). I am going to shoot for low 16lb weight. I'll post some pics when done. C'ya, Tim


----------



## jasandalb

so I am a noob to this forum but am active over at bikeforum...I got directed over here by a few guys on bikeforum.

I am looking to get an "ebay carbon frame".... and really dont know where to start. there seem to be tons of makers. I hop on this thread and there are hundreds more so my mind is REALLY spinning.

So...who would you guys recommend? my budget for the frame (and hopefully fork/headset) is right around $300.

PS... I am 205lbs, I've been told that going full CF should NOT poise a problem....but if you think otherwise let me know.


----------



## DrFragnasty

*Finally finished and riding.*

Verdict so far; good.

The cables rub on the headtube so a couple of patches of gaffer fixes that.

Frame flexes more than my Principia RSL but not much more.

Most importantly it fits. This is after a couple of days riding to work and back.


*Wish list:*
I'd like to see cables routed internally, a front derailleur mount, taller head tube black rivets for the cable mounts, less frame flex and that's about it.

For $380 AUS delivered it's brilliant. Got it from bicycle_999 off ebay.com.au


I'm getting an MTB frame next.

Chris.


----------



## ColoRoadie

All of you guys put together some very beautiful bikes. It would be helpful to those of us new to the china carbon route if when you post the pics though to tell us which frame it is and who you bought it from.


----------



## Urb

any chance to wiegh the final build?


----------



## DrFragnasty

Weight? Chance? ...slim ;0)

I've got 3Kg digital scales and that's it.

I'd like to know too. The frame is 1100g

If I have a big lunch it weighs 1.5lbs more  ;0)

Chris.


----------



## jasandalb

So this looks to be the frame I am going to grab;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320579428865&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I dont need a fork and they said they'll include the headset. Any opinions on the seller?


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

jasandalb said:


> So this looks to be the frame I am going to grab;
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320579428865&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
> 
> I dont need a fork and they said they'll include the headset. Any opinions on the seller?


WOW--I had no idea they were selling so cheap. The seller has sold 5000 of something with 99% satisfied customers--hell, I'd go for it! In the Paypal form, be sure to say "Frame and headset".


----------



## juki48

juki48 said:


> Ordered my 51cm FM015 from DengFu Bike. Worked with Mina but paypal went to [email protected]. absolutly great service! got the bike in 4 days. 4. from china to NY in 4 days. I couldn't believe it. frame, fork, headset, seatpost clamp, and 2 extra hangers came to $456 shipped. shipping was $80 and the frame and fork were $340. put it together most of the way today. need to get a longer bolt for the front brake. frame looks great! this is my first carbon bike. can't wait to get some miles on it!


Just an update... I now have over 100 miles on this bike and LOVE it! I went from a late 80's Cdale to an FM015 and cannot believe the difference. also, my riding buddies are commenting on how good my climbing has gotten, I seem to read that a lot with this frame. I also find this frame to be rock solid at higher speeds (30-40mph). So far I am very pleased:thumbsup:


----------



## baldmanrunning

juki48 said:


> Just an update... I now have over 100 miles on this bike and LOVE it! I went from a late 80's Cdale to an FM015 and cannot believe the difference. also, my riding buddies are commenting on how good my climbing has gotten, I seem to read that a lot with this frame. I also find this frame to be rock solid at higher speeds (30-40mph). So far I am very pleased:thumbsup:


What size was your c'dale and what size is your FM015? Were they comparable?


----------



## mdime

Here's my FM015-SPL from Hong Fu. The parts were mostly sourced off of Ebay and are Rival except for the cranks. All said, the total was under $1500 including all taxes and shipping costs and the weight (without pump and seat bag) is 16.4lbs. I've ridden it three times so far and love it. My previous bike was a bonded aluminum Concorde circa '91 so considering it an upgrade is definitely an understatement.

View attachment 209391


----------



## jasandalb

ClarkinHawaii said:


> WOW--I had no idea they were selling so cheap. The seller has sold 5000 of something with 99% satisfied customers--hell, I'd go for it! In the Paypal form, be sure to say "Frame and headset".


I am going to pull the trigger tonight. Just need to convince the wife. I just dropped $120 on my other bike today (new cables, bar tape, stem, tune up and labor)
SO I'll need to be creative. I am going to sell my other frame once I build up this new one.


----------



## zender

I have also bought two frames now and both were blemish free. The first was just clearcoted 12K carbon, the second had a custom paint job to match a photo I sent them - also came out flawless. You definitely take more risk dealing with an overseas vendor, no question about it. But, not EVERY frame they ship has problems. The way I look at it, at these prices, who cares if you rash it up, I wouldn't say the same thing if I had spent 3 grand on a high end domestic branded one.


----------



## hummina shadeeba

*Me too*

I'd take anything that has an integrated seatpost. gotta have it. group order?


----------



## equinoxx

So the FM015 that everyone seems to get, what is the equivalent big name bike company frame?

In other words, what bike frame would I be getting if it had some manufacturer stickers on it?


----------



## elviento

Don't be an a55hole. Many people own Mercedes. Or Colnago, or Pinarello, etc... what's your problem? 



Italianrider76 said:


> Reminds just how stupid owning a Mercedes really is.


----------



## equinoxx

Not trying to be an *******...in fact, i'm looking to buy one. Just curious as to what I'm getting..

if it's a "knock off", cool
if its an unbranded something else, that's cool too. 

I just want to know which one?


----------



## elviento

I am not comparing them against the likes of Pedalforce, but more against bigger name brands from whom people are more used to demanding "perfection". In fact 1/3 might even be an understatement if you go along that route. 

It's often arguable as to what degree of imprefection is "defective". I will give you a good example, many Hongfu consumers have found the headset to take a lot of effort to fit into the headtube... including me. You could go either way as to whether this is "defective" or just "not perfect". Truth is, I'd be a whole lot more pissed off if I have to wrestle with my headset on my $5K Pinarello frame. 

All I am saying is, there are tradeoffs being made for a cheaper price. That's all. 



rruff said:


> Enough with the exaggerating. Similar frames are sold in the US for maybe ~50% more. When buying direct from China you cut out the retailer... who must make US wages... and instead make the entire transaction via Chinese wages... thus the discount is pretty sensible for similar service. If you were a retailer, you'd demand QC on the manufacturer/wholesaler end too... you wouldn't just eat defective frames and poor finishes... you'd send them back.
> 
> It certainly is an ethical issue if the seller is shipping obviously defective product, then asking the buyer to pay shipping and other charges to get it resolved. This is bad business any way you look at it. If they are selling blems they should be stated that way.


----------



## LuPaiGuFan

Just finished building up my greatkeen (dengfu) FM28 and thought I'd provide a bit of feedback for anyone else in this thread looking to try one.

Tony was really quite good with his service and replied promptly to my emails (I live in Australia and our time zone is closely matched with China's), right up until the point where I paid him. After that things weren't as good. 

I had to email him twice, a week after I made payment to see what was happening with my frame as he had told me the bike would ship within a week of payment. When he finally responded he told me that I would have to wait an extra week to week and a half due to some issue with the moulds. When I replied that I was unhappy with this and he had promised to send a bike within a week, he sent another email back telling me my package had shipped, but provided the wrong tracking number. A couple of emails later and I could see my package was heading towards Australia.

Shipping only took four or so days. When I checked in the box my derailer hangers and the seat clamp were missing. I emailed Tony about this and he told me they weren't included on my invoice so I would have to pay extra for them, US$6 plus shipping. When I copied the parts of our emails where he had stated the clamp and hangers were included he said there'd been a mix up and would send me a six dollar refund. After a bit of wrangling he agreed to send me the two hangers for free and I would purchase my own seat clamp here.

The frame has a few minor blemishes (which I don't have decent photos of yet) where the cosmetic carbon sheets don't align, and I had to sand back some excess clearcoat in the non drive-side dropout like a few other people here have. I am unsure if there were any problems fitting the headset as my lbs installed it for free when I had them cut my steerer. Everything else works perfectly and from a functional perspective I could not be happier with the bike. I've taken it on a few shortish rides and it feels rock-solid and handles like a dream. It's also at least a couple of kilos lighter than my current steel Bianchi.

For a grand total of US$576 including paypal charge, I got an FM28 frame matt 3k finish, fork, headset, two spare hangers, a seatpost, four carbon bottle cages and a phantom seatclamp, delivered to my door. The bike I built up has 3t bar & stem, campy athena with carbon cranks, campy scirocco wheels and other decent parts, all for something on the order of A$2300. While there have been a few issues, I'd definitely do this again next time I want a new bike. 

I'd recommend this to anyone who wants to : have a nice bike on the cheap; see what it's like to build your own bike; or do something a bit different to their riding friends. I'd recommend against it if: nothing short of perfection will do; you don't trust your mechanical skills and aren't inclined to risk death or disfigurement at the hands of unseen factory workers. Personally I think it adds a bit of spice to my rides, plus I'm likely to get killed by the sociopathic drivers here in Brisbane well before my frame has a chance to fail.

And for the obligatory albeit poor photo:


----------



## lehisj

*My Dengfu TT-bike*

So I just finalized my TT-frame from Dengfu Sports (Tony). The build-up was quite an easy project because I knew what problems to expect from ms6073 comments (old thread; page 14). The first test rides show that the bike is fast but not really faster than my previous TT bike Pedalforce TT2. I hope that the rider would be just a little bit stronger/faster! Here are some pictures of the bike.


----------



## XavierM

After some in-depth research I went ahead a pulled the trigger on Rossetti bikes. Many have said that this bike has a similar mold to that of a china frame but after close inspection I think it is slightly different. Haven't had a chance to weight it but I''ll do that later today. I was going to pull the trigger on GOTOBIKES's FM 238 but I found this bike and they are based locally here in Miami. Great people to deal with and transaction went smoothly. I believe they also sell on eBay. Anyways, total cost was $2795 Which includes everything you see below. I was looking for a complete build and after crunching numbers this was only about $150 more than if I would've pieced together a build with a frame from china and components off eBay. I opted for the extra $150 to have piece of mind as if anything were to go wrong with the frame I had somebody to go back to locally.


----------



## tonkabaydog

Wow nice bike.
But to make sure no schilling is going on, I have a few questions. They do have a slick website but:

If they are "Miami" local, great people to deal with AND you did you some "in-depth" research:

1) Were you able to pick up at a brick and mortar retail location? $2795 total seems like an odd figure if you are local, because you would likely have to pay tax if in fact "local".
2) Who are the people that remarket these bikes and frames? I heard it was some German Automotive shop that is selling the bikes.
3) Is the frame made in China or Taiwan Frame
4) Is it BB30?
5) What are the components? SRAM Force? The one on EBAY only has a few authentic SRAM components the rest is "Rossetti" branded including the brakes, wheels, stem, handlebars, so I am curious what you based your comparable pricing on?

Looking forward to more pics...


----------



## XavierM

tonkabaydog said:


> Wow nice bike.
> But to make sure no schilling is going on, I have a few questions. They do have a slick website but:
> 
> If they are "Miami" local, great people to deal with AND you did you some "in-depth" research:
> 
> 1) Were you able to pick up at a brick and mortar retail location? $2795 total seems like an odd figure if you are local, because you would likely have to pay tax if in fact "local". *I picked up the bike at owners home. They only sell direct online and do not sell through bike stores. The owner was kind enough to invite me over to view some of the frames. He had a fe bikes at his home but the full inventory was off in a warehouse.*
> 2) Who are the people that remarket these bikes and frames? I heard it was some German Automotive shop that is selling the bikes. *The owners name is Andres. He is well known in the cycling scene in Miami.*
> 3) Is the frame made in China or Taiwan Frame *Not sure on this one as I didnt ask and I didn't care  *
> 4) Is it BB30? *YES*
> 5) What are the components? SRAM Force? The one on EBAY only has a few authentic SRAM components the rest is "Rossetti" branded including the brakes, wheels, stem, handlebars, so I am curious what you based your comparable pricing on? *Despite what website says the component spec is full 2010 Srame force. Except for brakes which are re-branded feather brakes*
> 
> Looking forward to more pics...


 *Ill post some more shortly*


----------



## juki48

baldmanrunning said:


> What size was your c'dale and what size is your FM015? Were they comparable?


not comparable. the Cdale was a 54 and the FM015 is a 51. I always felt the Cdale was too big. I'm 5'7.5" around 171cm. I feel much better on the 51.


----------



## XavierM

Here are some more pics:

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/V4QLH2uNXwpLnXlXdBvcmw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.ggpht.com/_89FR2L3O7uo/THfDHSBz1fI/AAAAAAAABRg/9N3GUpARK0g/s800/031.JPG" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/xavierm23/RossettiBike?feat=embedwebsite">Rossetti Bike</a></td></tr></table>
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/yIN9TWM0RhoO2_2P2LXzqQ?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.ggpht.com/_89FR2L3O7uo/THfDH2q_djI/AAAAAAAABRk/QCDdgVEMssk/s800/032.JPG" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/xavierm23/RossettiBike?feat=embedwebsite">Rossetti Bike</a></td></tr></table>
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/UGZlN5r4F2NynHxadNe4SA?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.ggpht.com/_89FR2L3O7uo/THfDIRs3X1I/AAAAAAAABRo/xBMa44GV0yE/s800/035.JPG" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/xavierm23/RossettiBike?feat=embedwebsite">Rossetti Bike</a></td></tr></table>
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/s9BI-MBeVaA8WEAfxUwv6A?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.ggpht.com/_89FR2L3O7uo/THfDI3w7fRI/AAAAAAAABRs/6w8P0tozPac/s800/034.JPG" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/xavierm23/RossettiBike?feat=embedwebsite">Rossetti Bike</a></td></tr></table>
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/I4lYRYsdvkiwxiz3Js9Faw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.ggpht.com/_89FR2L3O7uo/THfDJhJQFSI/AAAAAAAABRw/mNq5675m5z0/s800/033.JPG" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/xavierm23/RossettiBike?feat=embedwebsite">Rossetti Bike</a></td></tr></table>
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/yFd90wDMvG_aEr6-orb-qA?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh3.ggpht.com/_89FR2L3O7uo/THfDkUGaPQI/AAAAAAAABR4/gMfC-q72MbI/s800/036.JPG" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/xavierm23/RossettiBike?feat=embedwebsite">Rossetti Bike</a></td></tr></table>
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/qsxfgghBhjs6VSwFgUymPQ?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.ggpht.com/_89FR2L3O7uo/THfDlPsi0vI/AAAAAAAABR8/pHa1ruVrRZY/s800/037.JPG" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/xavierm23/RossettiBike?feat=embedwebsite">Rossetti Bike</a></td></tr></table>
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/skpUA0Wo9VijdidzwdQx8A?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.ggpht.com/_89FR2L3O7uo/THfDlnC7FbI/AAAAAAAABSA/EfJK3fkkvPs/s800/038.JPG" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/xavierm23/RossettiBike?feat=embedwebsite">Rossetti Bike</a></td></tr></table>
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/QnDE7OlK5T6x9x0HnM3yfg?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.ggpht.com/_89FR2L3O7uo/THfDnPN9IiI/AAAAAAAABSE/wEemZBJYL5Q/s800/039.JPG" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/xavierm23/RossettiBike?feat=embedwebsite">Rossetti Bike</a></td></tr></table>
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/4qSObrA9y_ILPRLVUScVTQ?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh3.ggpht.com/_89FR2L3O7uo/THfDnurpy4I/AAAAAAAABSI/xCLzmLc6xY0/s800/041.JPG" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/xavierm23/RossettiBike?feat=embedwebsite">Rossetti Bike</a></td></tr></table>


----------



## tonkabaydog

Congrats....that is a beautiful aggressive looking bike. The head tube appears on the rather short side, whence the more aggressive geometry and that is one tall "I mean really" tall ISP. Does it fit you? 

I am also thinking this should be moved to a new thread not this one....but don't know how to do so


----------



## XavierM

You're right! That's is a TALL seat post. I am getting fit this afternoon and will have seatpost cut. These are pictures of the bike exactly how I picked it up (minus the pedals).


----------



## stevesbike

lehisj said:


> So I just finalized my TT-frame from Dengfu Sports (Tony). The build-up was quite an easy project because I knew what problems to expect from ms6073 comments (old thread; page 14). The first test rides show that the bike is fast but not really faster than my previous TT bike Pedalforce TT2. I hope that the rider would be just a little bit stronger/faster! Here are some pictures of the bike.


nice build - I have the same frame - curious what solution you used for the front derailleur - I have the same crank on mine with a 54 and had to make a piece to correct the angle.

- are you using a centerpull rear brake? I'm fiddling around with mine to get more stopping power but it still is pretty weak stopping power (in part because of vision brake levers, which don't provide much leverage).


----------



## tonkabaydog

Nice bike! Enjoy.


----------



## lehisj

stevesbike said:


> nice build - I have the same frame - curious what solution you used for the front derailleur - I have the same crank on mine with a 54 and had to make a piece to correct the angle.
> 
> - are you using a centerpull rear brake? I'm fiddling around with mine to get more stopping power but it still is pretty weak stopping power (in part because of vision brake levers, which don't provide much leverage).


I was also expecting to have some problems with my front derailleur. Somehow it fitted pretty well even I am having Rotor oval chainrings, which are often quite problematic for front derailleurs. So I did not have to do any extra tricks.

I am using TRP 925 rear brake, but the stopping power is not good at all, but who needs so much stopping power in TTs at least not here in Finland!


----------



## jasandalb

well...the wife shot me down! anyone have an extra frame, 52-53 they would be willing to sell for $200? dont need a fork... just frame and maybe headset......


----------



## philischen

So, finally some pics...

1. with Shimano Dura Ace 7801 C24 TU
2. with Zipp/tune 404

1. 7,30 kg
2. 7,11 kg

If there are any questions, feel free to ask...


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

tonkabaydog said:


> How bout the answers to these questions? Wanna help you celebrate your purchase without SCHILL being affiliated with the post. So could you kindly answer the questions so as to give comfort to us all about the legitimitacy of Rossetti and who they are?
> 
> 1) If you were able to pick up locally in Miami at a brick and mortar retail location what is their physical address?
> 2) Who are the people that remarket these bikes and frames and is it a bike shop or a German Automotive shop that is selling the bikes.
> 3) Is the frame made in China or Taiwan?
> 4) Is it BB30?
> 5) Looking forward to your answers to help clear things up..


He answered these questions directly in the "quoted" area of the post that said "more pics coming" or whatever. Easy to miss.


----------



## k24a2

I finished my built on the weekend and i have ride its for couple days around 100km. i must say i love the how it ride!! it absorb the bump a lot better then my aluminium, and i feel the power transfer is a lot better (maybe less flex?)


































I below is what i have on my bike
FM015-ISP
105 9 Speed
Front and Rear Ultegra derailleur
FSA SL-K Carbon Crank 53-39
China Carbon/alumimum 50mm Aero Wheel.

The total weight of the bike is 19lbs..(the wheel is very heavy weighed at 2100 grams)...

Over all i am very satisfy with this bike. One thing i did notice was the front derailleur that is feed throw the frame behind the BB, there is a slight rubbing on the frame. i will put a small tube there.


----------



## zender

Nice build. Those are some beefy wheels at 2100g. At least they should be sturdy hopefully.


----------



## k24a2

zender said:


> Nice build. Those are some beefy wheels at 2100g. At least they should be sturdy hopefully.


They are very solid.. i have ride them through gravel and pot holes and they are still ture. I thought getting a Full carbon clinchers but didn't want to have problem with brake over heating and worried about the cracking the wheels..


----------



## amkesler26

Can you provide a spec list of the componets you used to build up your bike? What problems or tips do you have on putting it all together? 





philischen said:


> So, finally some pics...
> 
> 1. with Shimano Dura Ace 7801 C24 TU
> 2. with Zipp/tune 404
> 
> 1. 7,30 kg
> 2. 7,11 kg
> 
> If there are any questions, feel free to ask...


----------



## philischen

amkesler26 said:


> Can you provide a spec list of the componets you used to build up your bike? What problems or tips do you have on putting it all together?




Sure. Speclist:

FM015 SPL frame, size 58 + fork
Dura Ace 7900 (STI, RD, FD, brakes, chain)
Dura Ace 7700 octalink BB
SRM Pro cranks with PC V
PRO Plt carbon stem, 140mm
PRO XLT classic bar
Prologo Scratch black
Deda bartape black
Zipp 404/Dura Ace 7801 wheels


Only had one single "problem" building it up. Didn't think of the crownrace being 1 1/2" and had nothing to hit it on to the fork. Did it with a screwdirver -> didn't look professional at all. But now I know for the next frame to think of before...


----------



## elviento

I am looking for a way to conver the FM105 ISP clamp into the attached photo. I saw a gentleman's FM105 which got this conversion in Version 1 of this thread, which unfortunately cannot be opened any more (at least from my 3 computers located in 2 countries)... 

Can anyone kindly give a few pointers as to where to obtain this item and how to actually do it? I am reasonably good with carbon modification -- have cut 30+ forks and 5+ seatmasts.

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/download/file.php?id=37454&mode=view


----------



## PLAYONIT

elviento said:


> I am looking for a way to conver the FM105 ISP clamp into the attached photo. I saw a gentleman's FM105 which got this conversion in Version 1 of this thread, which unfortunately cannot be opened any more (at least from my 3 computers located in 2 countries)...
> 
> Can anyone kindly give a few pointers as to where to obtain this item and how to actually do it? I am reasonably good with carbon modification -- have cut 30+ forks and 5+ seatmasts.
> 
> http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/download/file.php?id=37454&mode=view


That was me that originally posted about acquiring one and there was an Italian gentleman with an 015 who was a machinist by trade that copied the design and fabricated his own.. I inquired with the Italian company (Thecno) that makes them for several bike makers... Baum , De Rosa and a couple of others that use them... I had a little correspondence with them. They will reply but may take a few days. They sent me a tech sheet that had specs and installation instructions which seemed simple enough.. along with the seat post you have to purchase the install jig.... IIRC seat post and jig shipprd from Italy-NY was $190

http://www.thecno.net/


----------



## elviento

Many thanks! I will send them an inquiry.


----------



## Tri4fun73

*Looks like the next route*

This is a great thread. It looks like the route I am going to go for my next frame. The fm 015 is very similar to a Cervelo r3 can all attest to that? 
Anyone do business outside of those commonly used here, like hongfu, dengfu? I found a company on alibaba named Haining J&J that have a SpecializedTarmac as one of their frames. Thhe min. However is 20units. I thought maybe I can talk them down. Chances?


----------



## jkuo

Didn't someone else in that thread make something similar? I believe he slotted the ISP and then used a clamp and modified Thompson seatpost.



elviento said:


> I am looking for a way to conver the FM105 ISP clamp into the attached photo. I saw a gentleman's FM105 which got this conversion in Version 1 of this thread, which unfortunately cannot be opened any more (at least from my 3 computers located in 2 countries)...
> 
> Can anyone kindly give a few pointers as to where to obtain this item and how to actually do it? I am reasonably good with carbon modification -- have cut 30+ forks and 5+ seatmasts.
> 
> http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/download/file.php?id=37454&mode=view


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

philischen said:


> Only had one single "problem" building it up. Didn't think of the crownrace being 1 1/2" and had nothing to hit it on to the fork. Did it with a screwdirver -> didn't look professional at all. But now I know for the next frame to think of before...


Glad you reminded us of this--

I am thinking about purchasing the 015 frame.

In the past I've screwed up a couple of crown races trying to install them without proper tools.

I finally purchased a 1-1/8 crown race installer, just a month ago, thinking that would be all I'd ever need . . . guess not.

What's everybody using to install this odd duck?--is there some size commonly available pipe whose inside diameter is just right for this? No more dimpled crown races!!


----------



## lobo

Find a thick piece of wood ( brick like ) , drill a proper hole through it and ...rest is simple


----------



## cdhbrad

Sch 40 PVC pipe will work. Measure the ID of 2", that may be about right. Better yet, take the crown race to a hardware store and find something in the plumbing dept. that the crown will fit with the pipe resting on the flat shoulder of the race. Some stores have short lengths of large diameter galvanized pipe and that works too.


----------



## ms6073

lehisj said:


> So I just finalized my TT-frame from Dengfu Sports (Tony). The build-up was quite an easy project because I knew what problems to expect from ms6073 comments (old thread; page 14).


Oh snap! Wowza, everybody has Zipp disc wheels but few have Lightweights. That is a seriously nice disc wheel.


----------



## SilentAssassin

k24a2 said:


> I finished my built on the weekend and i have ride its for couple days around 100km. i must say i love the how it ride!! it absorb the bump a lot better then my aluminium, and i feel the power transfer is a lot better (maybe less flex?)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I below is what i have on my bike
> FM015-ISP
> 105 9 Speed
> Front and Rear Ultegra derailleur
> FSA SL-K Carbon Crank 53-39
> China Carbon/alumimum 50mm Aero Wheel.
> 
> The total weight of the bike is 19lbs..(the wheel is very heavy weighed at 2100 grams)...
> 
> Over all i am very satisfy with this bike. One thing i did notice was the front derailleur that is feed throw the frame behind the BB, there is a slight rubbing on the frame. i will put a small tube there.


Did you have to cut the seat post to get the proper fit? Also is that the 12k finish, did you buy a fork for it too...what was the total cost for just the frame/fork and how was the process of buying the bike, turn around time, etc.


----------



## cdhbrad

That is a 3K finish. Owner will have to answer your other questions.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

thanks for the tips on the oversized crown race


----------



## rruff

I just measured my crown race and the inner and outer diameters are 1.55" and 2.00". I suspect that a 1-1/2" or 1-3/4" PVC pipe would work.


----------



## elviento

I remember seeing that. Problem is, I think the FM 105 has a very steep seat angle, and non-setback is simply not an option. My 51cm FM105 has 20mm less reach than my 50S C50. In addition, the slot and an extra clamp is not quite as cool... Sorry I am vain. 



jkuo said:


> Didn't someone else in that thread make something similar? I believe he slotted the ISP and then used a clamp and modified Thompson seatpost.


----------



## jasandalb

jasandalb said:


> well...the wife shot me down! anyone have an extra frame, 52-53 they would be willing to sell for $200? dont need a fork... just frame and maybe headset......


ANYBODY out there help me? Let me know...paypal waiting


----------



## k24a2

SilentAssassin said:


> Did you have to cut the seat post to get the proper fit? Also is that the 12k finish, did you buy a fork for it too...what was the total cost for just the frame/fork and how was the process of buying the bike, turn around time, etc.


I have the 3k finish.. and i had to cut the seat post to fit.. i bought the frame, fork and headset shipped to my door for $500.00 USD... For the process i found it ok... just the turn around time for e-mail was a bit long (because of time difference). I didn't order anything special, before i put in my order i make sure she has everything in stock and ready for ship out. i think it took 10 business days to get to my door.


----------



## mtberv

jwcurry83 said:


> What is the consensus on Novatech hubs? I have got a price list off of an eBay seller that says the wheels he has are built up with novatech hubs, 3k weave, red/white/black spokes (black is standard)... and this seller accepts paypal and will create a seperate eBay auction listing for me as well to make it official:
> 
> $527 --88mm Clincher
> $467 --88mm Tubular
> $467 --60mm Clincher
> $398 --60mm Tubular
> $449 --50mm Clincher
> $382 --50mm Tubular
> $435 --38mm Clincher
> $367 --38mm Tubular
> $415 --20mm Clincher
> $347 --20mm Tubular
> 
> I noticed that the tubulars are obviously cheaper, but I have never rode a set... is it worth the extra money for the clincher wheelsets?


Can you pm me or post his contact info?
Those hubs look just like vuelta hubs which I ride (corsa super light). I have not had a single problem with over 1500 hard miles on them.


----------



## masterjunx

Hey everyone, I have been following both of these carbon fiber frame threads, I love all the insight and pictures you have all provided and I will be ordering one probably from Tony here in the next couple of weeks but I have a question. 

I remember reading that the 001 is more relaxed than the 015 and that the 015 is stiffer, especially around the BB, my question is, where does the 028 compare. Is it still more relaxed than the 015 but stiffer than the 001 or is it somewhere between? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

jasandalb said:


> ANYBODY out there help me? Let me know...paypal waiting


One Frame; one complete bike. PM if interested.


----------



## lobo

masterjunx said:


> Hey everyone, I have been following both of these carbon fiber frame threads, I love all the insight and pictures you have all provided and I will be ordering one probably from Tony here in the next couple of weeks but I have a question.
> 
> I remember reading that the 001 is more relaxed than the 015 and that the 015 is stiffer, especially around the BB, my question is, where does the 028 compare. Is it still more relaxed than the 015 but stiffer than the 001 or is it somewhere between? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


 Somewhere between. Taller head tube, longer chain stays and wheelbase, maybe a bit less stiff than 015 which, IMO, is typical performance oriented, and " nervous " frame, italian classic like.


----------



## VAMurph

k24a2 said:


> I have the 3k finish.. and i had to cut the seat post to fit.. i bought the frame, fork and headset shipped to my door for $500.00 USD... For the process i found it ok... just the turn around time for e-mail was a bit long (because of time difference). I didn't order anything special, before i put in my order i make sure she has everything in stock and ready for ship out. i think it took 10 business days to get to my door.


K24a2,

How do you like the FSA SL-K Carbon Cranks? I've heard mixed reviews and some complaining that they just don't hold up. Any issues?

Murph


----------



## VAMurph

*Sizing Question*

Hey everyone, I'm a newbie to the site and have been watching this thread for some time and I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on a frame. I need your expert opinion on frames. I've measured the Stack and Reach on my current bike, Cannondale Alum and the measurements are as follows:

Stack: 566.02
Reach: 395.60

I'm looking at the FM-015 and can't decide between the 580 or 550cm. Here's the stack and reach for both of those bikes.

580cm
Stack:584.49
Reach: 394.66

550cm
Stack: 564.02
Reach: 381.42

Understanding I can acheive essentially the same seat and handlebar height with either one with some work, would I be better leaning in on particular director or frame?

Thanks
Murph


----------



## Guymk

I have been very seriously considering buying an Fm0015 non-isp but with Hongfu having such bad customer service lately i want to go somewhere else. Does anyone know of another source for a non-isp fm0015 frame?


----------



## Satanpez

I dealt with Mina @ DengFu recently. 2-3 days of emailing back and forth (I wanted an FU28, they had 15 non-isp in stock so I went with that) and the bike was at my office less than a week after ordering. 

I'm actually on vacation but I had my biker co-worker inspect it and says it looks fantastic. Can't wait to see it.

-Steve


----------



## Guymk

Thanks, Do they not have the 15 non-isp listed on their website ? I checked dengfu sports out and I did not see the non-isp on their website.

Edit: Never mind, i found it. For some reason they have the non-isp frame listed under the "other" category.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

I should know the answer to this . . .

So Jenny sent me a free seatpost with my order. It looks like this:









I don't see how it is adjustable to angle the seat up and down. 

Also I don't get the use of the term "full carbon seatpost" when it obviously has metal parts. So does "full carbon" mean "mostly carbon" , or what??


----------



## nickl75

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Also I don't get the use of the term "full carbon seatpost" when it obviously has metal parts. So does "full carbon" mean "mostly carbon" , or what??


lol! 

I suspect it means the _seatpost_ itself is carbon. I think all have at least some metal parts, even if it is just the screws/threads.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

nickl75 said:


> lol!
> 
> I suspect it means the _seatpost_ itself is carbon. I think all have at least some metal parts, even if it is just the screws/threads.


OK, what about a "Full carbon fork"--no metal anywhere?


----------



## k24a2

VAMurph said:


> K24a2,
> 
> How do you like the FSA SL-K Carbon Cranks? I've heard mixed reviews and some complaining that they just don't hold up. Any issues?
> 
> Murph


I have only ride it for 100km or so, but so far it has been great, it shift pretty nice. I know they had some problem with the FSA Carbon Crank prior 2008 (maybe 2009) model. People complain that the non drive arm bolt cannot be torque to spec without striping the treads, and the rubber O ring spacer disintegrate after couple 100 miles... The one i have is a 2010 model which they have changed the non-drive arm bolt to steel bolt. (alumimum before)... and changing the rubber O ring into the metal wave ring (spacer).


----------



## cyklopath

Clamps rotate inside the head of the post to adjust seat angle. Securing bolt through the middle is roughly the pivot. 

Many 'Carbon' posts are little more than a carbon veneer over an alu tube. If it is listed as a full carbon post, its implying that it has no alu tube inside. Very few carbon seatposts, stems, cranks, etc have absolutely no metal in them in the form of threaded inserts or clamps.


----------



## yurl

ClarkinHawaii said:


> I don't see how it is adjustable to angle the seat up and down.


I believe that others have had trouble with the adjustment on that model seatpost 
http://cheapcarbonframes.com/2010/07/aikendrums-fm015-build/


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

cyklopath said:


> Clamps rotate inside the head of the post to adjust seat angle. Securing bolt through the middle is roughly the pivot.
> 
> Many 'Carbon' posts are little more than a carbon veneer over an alu tube. If it is listed as a full carbon post, its implying that it has no alu tube inside. Very few carbon seatposts, stems, cranks, etc have absolutely no metal in them in the form of threaded inserts or clamps.


Yeah, I took off the big bolt and stuck a dowel through the bolt hole to tap the disc face out the side of the head. Aluminum tube and aluminum disc faces on this all-carbon seatpost. 

Apparently you have only a friction fit and there are no ratchets--you just eyeball it to try to make the 2 sides even. And this little jewel sells for $38 on their site.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

SALE SALE SALE

Genuine full-carbon seatpost, value $38 for sale only $20.

My very favorite seatpost, brand new, must sacrifice. Act now--This will go fast!!


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

yurl said:


> I believe that others have had trouble with the adjustment on that model seatpost
> http://cheapcarbonframes.com/2010/07/aikendrums-fm015-build/


Apparently the guy with the 015 in the article you linked didn't realize that the seatpost is definitely adjustable in pitch--like i said above, you just knock out the alloy face-discs, rotate them to the seat pitch you want, then push them back in , and tighten with the central bolt.


----------



## yurl

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Apparently the guy with the 015 in the article you linked didn't realize that the seatpost is definitely adjustable in pitch--like i said above, you just knock out the alloy face-discs, rotate them to the seat pitch you want, then push them back in , and tighten with the central bolt.


ah ic


----------



## thefutureofamerica

ClarkinHawaii said:


> OK, what about a "Full carbon fork"--no metal anywhere?


A "full carbon fork" has carbon legs and a carbon steer column... the dropouts and bearing races may or may not be carbon.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

Yeah, thanks for clarifying--I think many people misuse the terms, esp Chinese merchants.


----------



## aikendrum

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Apparently the guy with the 015 in the article you linked didn't realize that the seatpost is definitely adjustable in pitch--like i said above, you just knock out the alloy face-discs, rotate them to the seat pitch you want, then push them back in , and tighten with the central bolt.


Thanks for sharing this info Clark - Guy with 015 in article!


----------



## asad137

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Apparently you have only a friction fit and there are no ratchets--you just eyeball it to try to make the 2 sides even. And this little jewel sells for $38 on their site.


Protip: If you actually put the saddle in there, the rails will keep the two sides even, no eyeballing needed 

Asad


----------



## rruff

VAMurph said:


> Understanding I can acheive essentially the same seat and handlebar height with either one with some work, would I be better leaning in on particular director or frame?


Compute exactly what you'd have to do to each bike to get the saddle and bars in the same position as your current ride, and pick the one that looks best to you.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

, :thumbsup:


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

I thought I was being funny with my spoof "for sale" ad.

However, another forum member contacted me and is interested in buying the seatpost.

My conscience will not allow me to sell it unless I am reassured that it will do the job OK for the purchaser.

It seems just a tad flimsy. Has anybody used this seatpost and got some miles on it and can testify to its road-worthiness? Thanks.


----------



## k24a2

ClarkinHawaii said:


> It seems just a tad flimsy. Has anybody used this seatpost and got some miles on it and can testify to its road-worthiness? Thanks.


Actually the saddle mount is the same as the on the ISP Seat-Master on the FM-015. 

as Asad137 said once you put the saddle in.. the rail will hold both side of the plate inline... The only problem that i see is if you have to adjust the pitch of the saddle because there are no bolt/teeth for adjustment.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

It seems liike the clamping mechanism is rather flimsy. Does it hold the saddle rigidly (without slipping) once it is properly set up? 

I mean, for lots of miles--I can rig it up at home and it SEEMS ok, but i wonder about the long haul. . .

Has nobody used this mechanism either on this seatpost or on the ISP seat-master of the 015? Everybody has replaced it?


----------



## mrwirey

*Seatpost...*

Hello all,
The sketchy seatpost you are alluding to is actually a Bontrager clone. In fact, I swapped the seat clamping hardware on both of mine (I have a recently built FM015 and a newly built FM028) with the parts from two Bontrager Race XXX Lite seatposts I had lying around. The fit is exact. The major difference is that the Bontrager posts have a spring running in between the two bolt halves. The key to making the seatpost easier to adjust is pulling it apart and putting a little grease on the tapered aluminum bits that fit into the seatpost. I have yet to weigh the posts, but the FM015 weighs 15.48lbs (size 58cm) complete and the FM028 with matte black paint currently weighs 15lbs 15ozs (size 56cm) complete so the posts can't be that heavy and they work flawlessly....as good as Bontrager.
Very respectfully, Tim


----------



## lobo

*015 v 028*

What are differences in ride quality : 015 versus 028 ?


----------



## 5thdisciple

lobo said:


> What are differences in ride quality : 015 versus 028 ?



I would also be very interested to know this


----------



## mrwirey

*FM015 and FM028 Comparison will come this weekend*

All,
I will take my FM015 and my FM028 out to my stomping grounds in Bisbee, AZ this weekend and ride them on the same loop to get an appreciation for the differences between the two frames. The loop includes lots of uphills and fast downhills ("ain't nothing on the level in Bisbee")...and plenty of rough roads. I will try to make the bikes as comparable as possible (tires, pedals, etc.) so I am not distracted by components. I will try to be objective or as objective as I can be. I can tell you that they are both pretty sweet and that I really enjoy looking at them. I own a house full of bikes and these two are amongst my favorites aesthetically. Wait for it.... 
Very respectfully, Tim


----------



## philischen

Any weightsavings by using the Bontrager hardware??? Would be interesting for ISP users...


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

mrwirey said:


> Hello all,
> The sketchy seatpost you are alluding to is actually a Bontrager clone. In fact, I swapped the seat clamping hardware on both of mine (I have a recently built FM015 and a newly built FM028) with the parts from two Bontrager Race XXX Lite seatposts I had lying around. The fit is exact. The major difference is that the Bontrager posts have a spring running in between the two bolt halves. The key to making the seatpost easier to adjust is pulling it apart and putting a little grease on the tapered aluminum bits that fit into the seatpost. I have yet to weigh the posts, but the FM015 weighs 15.48lbs (size 58cm) complete and the FM028 with matte black paint currently weighs 15lbs 15ozs (size 56cm) complete so the posts can't be that heavy and they work flawlessly....as good as Bontrager.
> Very respectfully, Tim


Thanks!


----------



## mrwirey

*No weightsavings between Bontrager and Chinese Clone*

I didn't actually weigh them, but if there is a difference it would be grams not tens of grams.
Very respectfully, Tim


----------



## k24a2

I was searching on line for a better seat master and i found that FSA have something like this 

http://www.fullspeedahead.com/product.aspx?taxid=116&pid=610&lid=1


----------



## Zootv

Doesn't HongFu make lightspeeds?

http://www.bikerumor.com/2010/09/01/spy-shots-2011-litespeed-c1r-aero-carbon-road-bike/#more-21400


----------



## robpar

mrwirey said:


> All,
> I will take my FM015 and my FM028 out to my stomping grounds in Bisbee, AZ this weekend and ride them on the same loop to get an appreciation for the differences between the two frames. The loop includes lots of uphills and fast downhills ("ain't nothing on the level in Bisbee")...and plenty of rough roads. I will try to make the bikes as comparable as possible (tires, pedals, etc.) so I am not distracted by components. I will try to be objective or as objective as I can be. I can tell you that they are both pretty sweet and that I really enjoy looking at them. I own a house full of bikes and these two are amongst my favorites aesthetically. Wait for it....
> Very respectfully, Tim


Can't wait!


----------



## thefutureofamerica

k24a2 said:


> I was searching on line for a better seat master and i found that FSA have something like this
> 
> http://www.fullspeedahead.com/product.aspx?taxid=116&pid=610&lid=1


That certainly looks nicely made, but it's heavy, too... the claimed weight (198 g) is about an ounce heavier than the stock part that Hong Fu ships. 

Could anyone post a detail pic of the seatmast topper that ships with the 015-SPL? I don't remember seeing one after obsessively reading both of these threads in the last week or so.


----------



## stevesbike

Zootv said:


> Doesn't HongFu make lightspeeds?
> 
> http://www.bikerumor.com/2010/09/01/spy-shots-2011-litespeed-c1r-aero-carbon-road-bike/#more-21400


why because they're both made with carbon?


----------



## Zootv

stevesbike said:


> why because they're both made with carbon?



LOL, No but i thought i read somewhere that one of these manufactures talked about in these forums produced their bikes. Maybe it wasn't hongfu ... maybe its all a conspiracy and there's only one manufacture of all carbon frames and the Chinese government is on it ... maybe that is 'THE EVENT' :cryin: :cryin: :cryin: :cryin:


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

What's the highest stack of headset spacers you guys would dare use on carbon steer tube fork?

I know the rule of thumb is 1-1/2" for 1-1/8" steer tube, but I need to go higher.

What do you think?


----------



## stevesbike

ClarkinHawaii said:


> What's the highest stack of headset spacers you guys would dare use on carbon steer tube fork?
> 
> I know the rule of thumb is 1-1/2" for 1-1/8" steer tube, but I need to go higher.
> 
> What do you think?


I'd change the stem angle instead - more spacers has a negative effect on front end handling (plus issues of breakage).


----------



## yurl

Zootv said:


> LOL, No but i thought i read somewhere that one of these manufactures talked about in these forums produced their bikes. Maybe it wasn't hongfu ... maybe its all a conspiracy and there's only one manufacture of all carbon frames and the Chinese government is on it ... maybe that is 'THE EVENT' :cryin: :cryin: :cryin: :cryin:


they have an inhouse brand called speedflash.


----------



## Spursrider

Pinarc said:


> I got frames of follow and very nice,from greatkeenbike.com Ms.hu


Anyone built-up or riding this Pinarello lookalike? I'm thinking of buying this frame as it's available in my size. Still considering whether to get the unpainted or painted one but will definitely omit the Pinarello decal  
Need some feedback before pulling the trigger


----------



## nickl75

Spursrider said:


> Still considering whether to get the unpainted or painted one but will definitely omit the Pinarello decal


Good man! Fake decals have no class.


----------



## robpar

ClarkinHawaii said:


> What's the highest stack of headset spacers you guys would dare use on carbon steer tube fork?
> 
> I know the rule of thumb is 1-1/2" for 1-1/8" steer tube, but I need to go higher.
> 
> What do you think?


35 mm to 40 mm MAX based on the research of multiple fork manufacturers and talking to LBS mechanics, during the course of a few months. Personally, I would not go more than 35 mm but there are many stem manufacturers that make reasonably priced 30 degree (torelli bormio; very light; I have it) 20 degree and 17 degree stems (eleven81). I even found a 35 degree one (avenir)... I have all of them so that my fit in all my bikes is just right.
Keep in mind: the steeper the stem angle, the longer it needs to be in order to match your total reach desired.
That same issue kept me from ordering the FM015 and now I'm looking at the FM028 (taller head tube)


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

Good info, Thanks.

When I ordered the FM001, I specified the FK022, which is aluminum steerer. Apparently the 1-1/8" FK022 is the only al steerer fork avail. Has to be carbon steerer for 1-1/8---1-1/2" headtubes.

I didn't realize that the FM028 was taller head tube--I need to research that, and see how much I can finegle with high-rise stems.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

Spursrider said:


> Anyone built-up or riding this Pinarello lookalike? I'm thinking of buying this frame as it's available in my size. Still considering whether to get the unpainted or painted one but will definitely omit the Pinarello decal
> Need some feedback before pulling the trigger


I think it would be fun to get the frame in the full Pinarello kit--but it would present an interesting situation for customs, if it were inspected:

If it is listed on the declaration as very low value, then it would be clear to customs that it is a counterfeit, and perhaps they would confiscate???

I'm still trying to figure out how to tell a real Pinarello from one of these knock-offs since none of them have serial numbers . . . So if i see one of these on Craigslist and the seller swears it's the real thing, how could I tell for sure?


----------



## Italianrider76

ClarkinHawaii said:


> If it is listed on the declaration as very low value, then it would be clear to customs that it is a counterfeit, and perhaps they would confiscate???


Customs wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a Pinarello frame and a Schwinn you would get at Wal-Mart.


----------



## LarsEjaas

ClarkinHawaii said:


> I think it would be fun to get the frame in the full Pinarello kit--but it would present an interesting situation for customs, if it were inspected:
> 
> If it is listed on the declaration as very low value, then it would be clear to customs that it is a counterfeit, and perhaps they would confiscate???
> 
> I'm still trying to figure out how to tell a real Pinarello from one of these knock-offs since none of them have serial numbers . . . So if i see one of these on Craigslist and the seller swears it's the real thing, how could I tell for sure?


Would be hard I think. But once you got the frame, the BB is italian on the original Pina frames and english/BSA on the copies...


----------



## MrPerkles

I am very close to buying the Pinarello frame just had a price for $360 unpainted but i still cant get my head around the sizing as I am used to old steel frames
Heres another frame I painted myself its the best bike ive ridden and ive ridden quite afew :thumbsup: 
Porsche Gulf colours on a chinese frame blasphemy


----------



## Spursrider

Nice looking wheelset MrPerkles.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

These carbon wheels that you all seem to have--

Do you use them for daily riding, or just bring them out for special occasions and picture-taking?

From what I've been able to read, they are not appreciably lighter, have no aerodynamic advantage below 25mph and are much more fragile, crack in potholes, etc.

I'd love to get some, since it's about the only bike thing I have not yet squandered money on . . .

. . . but common sense suggests mistake . . .


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

LarsEjaas said:


> Would be hard I think. But once you got the frame, the BB is italian on the original Pina frames and english/BSA on the copies...


Good point!


----------



## bikensteve901

mrwirey said:


> Hello all,
> The sketchy seatpost you are alluding to is actually a Bontrager clone. In fact, I swapped the seat clamping hardware on both of mine (I have a recently built FM015 and a newly built FM028) with the parts from two Bontrager Race XXX Lite seatposts I had lying around. The fit is exact. The major difference is that the Bontrager posts have a spring running in between the two bolt halves. The key to making the seatpost easier to adjust is pulling it apart and putting a little grease on the tapered aluminum bits that fit into the seatpost. I have yet to weigh the posts, but the FM015 weighs 15.48lbs (size 58cm) complete and the FM028 with matte black paint currently weighs 15lbs 15ozs (size 56cm) complete so the posts can't be that heavy and they work flawlessly....as good as Bontrager.
> Very respectfully,
> 
> These instructions for adjusting the Bontrager type seatpost were spot on. Disassembling them and adding a little lubricant (grease) made them quite easy to adjust. The clamping mechanism seems to hold well without any slippage. Admittedly, it is not as easy to adjust as the Bontrager center bolt type, but once it is set it should hold without the need for additional adjustment.
> Regards.


----------



## bikensteve901

Italianrider76 said:


> Customs wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a Pinarello frame and a Schwinn you would get at Wal-Mart.



Customs is only looking for Counterfeit product if the OEM has alerted them to possible violation of patents and trademarks. The point above is accurate from that perspective.


----------



## bikensteve901

ClarkinHawaii said:


> These carbon wheels that you all seem to have--
> 
> Do you use them for daily riding, or just bring them out for special occasions and picture-taking?
> 
> From what I've been able to read, they are not appreciably lighter, have no aerodynamic advantage below 25mph and are much more fragile, crack in potholes, etc.
> 
> I'd love to get some, since it's about the only bike thing I have not yet squandered money on . . .
> 
> . . . but common sense suggests mistake . . .


The Carbon wheels look really nice, but are heavy, terrible to ride in crosswinds and mega-expensive. Try and get one repaired - forget it. I'll stick with my trusty Mavic Ksyrium ES set - they are bomb proof.:thumbsup:


----------



## BernyMac

I am getting ready to pull the trigger on one of these frames. What is included in the purchase with a fork? Is the headset included? 
Cable bosses?
Shift cable adjusters?
Bottom bracket cable guides?


----------



## bikensteve901

Frame and fork are typically included. Headset, extra deraileur hanger, seatpost, etc are for a extra charge. I have never seen barrel adjusters offered from any of the Chinese manaufacturers. You will most likely need to get these from your LBS or another online retailer.


----------



## PLAYONIT

Yep...... I only use my carbon wheels for picture taking?????????






ClarkinHawaii said:


> These carbon wheels that you all seem to have--
> 
> Do you use them for daily riding, or just bring them out for special occasions and picture-taking?
> 
> From what I've been able to read, they are not appreciably lighter, have no aerodynamic advantage below 25mph and are much more fragile, crack in potholes, etc.
> 
> I'd love to get some, since it's about the only bike thing I have not yet squandered money on . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . . . but common sense suggests mistake . . .


----------



## BernyMac

Have there been any issues regarding the installation of headsets? do they pretty much take the standard headsets out on the market?


----------



## mrwirey

*Food for thought and lessons learned...*

All,
Tips for building your ride:
1. Your LBS will more than likely have 'take off' barrel adjusters laying around....my LBS had about 50 different sets and donated a set to me 'gratis'. 
2. If you have a threaded bottom bracket pay your LBS to chase the threads with their very expensive Park Tool and have them install the bottom bracket or bottom bracket cups while they're at it. I gave my LBS $20 and they did it on the spot. It was worth the peace of mind.
3. Bottom fork bearing race installation...1 1/2" PVC pipe about 3 - 4 ft in length from Home Depot etc...invert fork so 'tines' point skyward; hold tines with one hand and PVC pipe with other about 1-2ft off ground and slam the PVC pipe into the ground. Between 2-10 repetitions ought to seat the race. 
4. If you have a 31.6mm seatpost (as most if not all of these non-integrated seat post or ISP frames do) you will need a 34.9mm seatpost clamp and a 34.9mm front derailleur clamp. Plan ahead.
5. Fork. Measure twice (or three or four times) and cut once...again not a bad idea to have the LBS do the cutting. It's that peace of mind thing. Oh and leave about 5mm above the stem when finished to ensure the stem clamps 100% on the fork and doesn't pinch the carbon at the top. 
6. Order the headset with the frame. They are not the typical 1" or 1 1/8" standard that has been around the industry for a while so you will be lucky if your LBS has them in stock (unless they have deep pockets for huge inventory). This will save you a lot of time, research ("what taper are the races? 30 or 45 degrees? etc.), and money in the long run. The headsets from HongFu and Great Keen are under $15 and work quite well.
7. Matte black finish paint option looks awesome and eliminates worry about carbon imperfections in the top layer...cost around $44. 
8. On some frames the cable guide for the front derailleur does not match up with the hole in the frame to feed the cable through. Pull some teflon cable tube from an old derailleur cable and push it into the hole and line it up so it butts up against the cable guide. This will allow your derailleur cable to ride on the tube rather than the frame. This is a small detail, but worth the peace of mind. 
9. Cut the useless pieces of tape that come with your bar tape and use them to protect your frame from chain slap or chain marring during wheel removal and to protect your head tube from cable wear. Cut the tape and place it on top of the drive side chain stay and in places where the cables contact your frame. Use electrical tape to secure your bar tape.
10. Invest in a good set of cable cutters.
11. Buy a can of Plasti-Dip and use it to coat your cable ends...no more hunting for those little aluminum tips.
Just some thoughts from someone who has built a few...
Very respectfully, Tim


----------



## BernyMac

Thank You mrwirey. Very helpful tips indeed


----------



## lalahsghost

Kinda desperate/strapped, so I put an ad for my spare frame on the classifieds:
https://classifieds.roadbikereview.com/showproduct.php?product=22005&cat=18

Hasa Road Frame (Raleigh DCS) - $200 plus Ship OBO



From itsall4sports



Seattube - 490 mm, Top Tube -510mm. Warrantied until December 2010



Geometry info is also in an easy to understand image: https://www.itsall4sports.com/goods/sizechart.asp?11



Used, comes with:

* Campagnolo seatpost clamp ( https://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...p;category=168 )

* Ritchey WCS Carbon Seatpost - 27.2mm, ?300?mm Length (Might be 350?) - Has scratches on it from installation.

* Headset topcap, and crown race. bearings not included. Frame uses campy type internal bearings.



Frame was ridden for about 600 miles, It supposed to be my travel bike, but I never went on vacation, so I just took it around the town for a month or two



Has a chip in the clear coat on the left non drive chain stay.


----------



## lalahsghost

Gah, how do I keep getting a preview error, not seeing a post, then end up double posting?


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

*FM015 and FM028*

Are these frames clones of any particular high-end bike models, as the FM001 is a clone of the Kuota Kredo?

(my definition of clone: virtually identical except for paint scheme/badging)

My apologies if this has been mentioned before (which I'm sure it has)--but I know you guys won't mind helping me out . . .


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

lalahsghost said:


> Gah, how do I keep getting a preview error, not seeing a post, then end up double posting?


system glitch--happens to the best of us.


----------



## ultraman6970

LarsEjaas said:


> Would be hard I think. But once you got the frame, the BB is italian on the original Pina frames and english/BSA on the copies...


Pinarello and almost all the italian and pretty much the whole world brands are using english BB since at least 15 years ago, the only italian bike you can find with italian BB shell are before 80s' mid 90's italian frames.

Just look at the specifications in any REAL pinarello!


----------



## ultraman6970

MrPerkles who designed the color combination? One thing is being good painting and other tthing is being a good designer, I liked the color combination u did.


----------



## MrPerkles

ultraman6970 said:


> MrPerkles who designed the color combination? One thing is being good painting and other tthing is being a good designer, I liked the color combination u did.


hello I based it on a porsche gulf 917 ,my brother said it looks like garmin colours though.I used to build steel frames for a living so paintings easy for me,best way to decide a theme is look at lots of "show your bike " threads


----------



## nickl75

ClarkinHawaii said:


> *FM015 and FM028*
> 
> Are these frames clones of any particular high-end bike models, as the FM001 is a clone of the Kuota Kredo?
> 
> (my definition of clone: virtually identical except for paint scheme/badging)


The FM001 & Kredo look somewhat similar, but have different geometry. 

See http://www.kuota.it/bike.php?IDCategoria=1&IDBicicletta=19&IDColore=1#Sector3 vs http://cheapcarbonframes.com/2010/07/fm001-carbon-bike-frame/

The FM015 looks somewhat similar to one of Cube bikes.


----------



## ultraman6970

MrPerkles said:


> hello I based it on a porsche gulf 917 ,my brother said it looks like garmin colours though.I used to build steel frames for a living so paintings easy for me,best way to decide a theme is look at lots of "show your bike " threads



U used to build? wow... waste long time in a shop when i was a kid and i never saw the useful it could be to lear building, i'm regreting this so much that u cant even imagine, even the master is retired so im pretty much F.. up hehe 

I liked the colors awesome  Did u use car paint or something else?


----------



## ultraman6970

nickl75 said:


> The FM001 & Kredo look somewhat similar, but have different geometry.
> 
> See http://www.kuota.it/bike.php?IDCategoria=1&IDBicicletta=19&IDColore=1#Sector3 vs http://cheapcarbonframes.com/2010/07/fm001-carbon-bike-frame/
> 
> The FM015 looks somewhat similar to one of Cube bikes.


All these chinese frames are shorter, if you go UCI it could be a problem because the frame will get too short.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

ultraman6970 said:


> All these chinese frames are shorter, if you go UCI it could be a problem because the frame will get too short.


Well this blows my mind--I thought the theory was that some high-priced bike company designed the frame(set) and paid for the initial molds; and then the molds were copied/pirated/sold off to help defray design costs.

If these Chinese (hell, they're all Chinese)--I mean these GENERIC Chinese frames are designed from scratch, just from a picture or something, that puts a different slant on it.


----------



## MrPerkles

ultraman6970 said:


> U used to build? wow... waste long time in a shop when i was a kid and i never saw the useful it could be to lear building, i'm regreting this so much that u cant even imagine, even the master is retired so im pretty much F.. up hehe
> 
> I liked the colors awesome  Did u use car paint or something else?


I learnt to braze lugs when I was still at school  sadly not a needed skill in the UK anymore
I used polyester base colurs and two pack laquer,gives a great shine


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

ultraman6970 said:


> All these chinese frames are shorter, if you go UCI it could be a problem because the frame will get too short.



Funniest thing I read today. :thumbsup:


----------



## rruff

mrwirey said:


> Bottom fork bearing race installation...1 1/2" PVC pipe about 3 - 4 ft in length from Home Depot etc...invert fork so 'tines' point skyward; hold tines with one hand and PVC pipe with other about 1-2ft off ground and slam the PVC pipe into the ground. Between 2-10 repetitions ought to seat the race.


It should... but mine was extremely tight. I couldn't even get it started at first. I ground away the high spots on the fork with a dremel and it still took some very hard whacks to get it on.


----------



## nickl75

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Well this blows my mind--I thought the theory was that some high-priced bike company designed the frame(set) and paid for the initial molds; and then the molds were copied/pirated/sold off to help defray design costs.
> 
> If these Chinese (hell, they're all Chinese)--I mean these GENERIC Chinese frames are designed from scratch, just from a picture or something, that puts a different slant on it.


http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=74005&start=30

Of course they are designed from scratch! Don't forget the Chinese have had a HUGE domestic bike industry for years - maybe not racebikes, but all that knowledge is useful for something.

Often the (Chinese) manufacturer owns the mold, though.

Spencer from Ritte posted how the designer for them (and PedalForce) is in Taiwan: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=74005&start=30

Bike design is always collaborative, though: the brand specifies "we want it stiffer", so the designer bulks up the bottom bracket. The country where the designer is isn't really that important anymore.


----------



## BernyMac

Has anybody ordered a painted frame? I am curious as to the durability and workmanship of the paint application. I might as well have them custom paint it for me.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

BernyMac said:


> Has anybody ordered a painted frame? I am curious as to the durability and workmanship of the paint application. I might as well have them custom paint it for me.


I got fm001 and fork painted by Hongfu. I think the paintjob is quite credible, although maybe not perfect--had to pay lbs to get dried paint out of BB threads. Durability should be OK, because it's been clearcoated over the paint. Not built up yet so can't really speak about durability.

For $40 I think it was a good deal. The only reason I ordered paintjob in the first place was because they did not have matching frame and fork in stock and I did not want to wait long time. Now I'm glad I did.


----------



## zender

ClarkinHawaii said:


> These carbon wheels that you all seem to have--
> 
> Do you use them for daily riding, or just bring them out for special occasions and picture-taking?
> 
> From what I've been able to read, they are not appreciably lighter, have no aerodynamic advantage below 25mph and are much more fragile, crack in potholes, etc.
> 
> I'd love to get some, since it's about the only bike thing I have not yet squandered money on . . .
> 
> . . . but common sense suggests mistake . . .



Well at least the carbon dissipates heat better than aluminum so they are better for braking on long descents... oh wait


----------



## zender

BernyMac said:


> Has anybody ordered a painted frame? I am curious as to the durability and workmanship of the paint application. I might as well have them custom paint it for me.


I have an FM018 TT frame. I had it painted white in some areas and left clearcoated carbon in others. By the looks of things, it was probably completely clearcoated first, then white then more clearcoat. That said, it looks great even up close. Can't say about durability, but if you aren't rashing up the paintjob on a bike, you're not riding enough. If you are worried about nicks and scratches, get an unpainted Ti frame.


----------



## DRAwpt

Does anyone know of a similar frame to the new Eddy Merckx EMX-7?
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features...kx-creates-new-emx-7-flagship-for-2011/139745


----------



## stubek

zender, can you post a picture of your built bike?


----------



## ultraman6970

Blackdogg the problem with a frame that is too short is the UCI rules for the saddle position in reference with the BB center, if the frame is short u just move the saddle all the way back but with UCI rules u can't do that. There is a limit for of how far back u can go with the saddle. So if the frame itself it is shorter when u cant go that far with the saddle u might get kind'a shorter in the position. For TT awesome, for riding 5 hours i doubt it is so awesome 

Solution? put a longer stem? If you have ride a frame that is shorter than the one u usually ride a longer stem wont fix it all. But since apparently nobody goes UCI here a shorter frame is not a problem after all  But is always good to mention stuff.

Personally since i arrived to this forum i been looking at the sizing charts of these asian frames and all of them are super short for some reason. I'm not saying are bad frames but the 1st thing that i noticed was how short they are, and i have two theories for that, 1 save some material and 2 the frame will get stiffer with less material. That's maybe the season why these frames are not going over a 58 as well.

cheers


----------



## ultraman6970

Blackdogg the problem with a frame that is too short is the UCI rules for the saddle position in reference with the BB center, if the frame is short u just move the saddle all the way back but with UCI rules u can't do that. There is a limit for of how far back u can go with the saddle. So if the frame itself it is shorter when u cant go that far with the saddle u might get kind'a shorter in the position. For TT awesome, for riding 5 hours i doubt it is so awesome 

Solution? put a longer stem? If you have ride a frame that is shorter than the one u usually ride a longer stem wont fix it all. But since apparently nobody goes UCI here a shorter frame is not a problem after all  But is always good to mention stuff.

Personally since i arrived to this forum i been looking at the sizing charts of these asian frames and all of them are super short for some reason. I'm not saying are bad frames but the 1st thing that i noticed was how short they are, and i have two theories for that, 1 save some material and 2 the frame will get stiffer with less material. That's maybe the season why these frames are not going over a 58 as well.

cheers


----------



## stubek

ultraman6970 said:


> Blackdogg the problem with a frame that is too short is the UCI rules for the saddle position in reference with the BB center, if the frame is short u just move the saddle all the way back but with UCI rules u can't do that.


I thought the limit was how far forward the saddle can go. I thought the nose of the saddle could not be forward of the center of the BB.


----------



## BernyMac

I've been trying to contact greatkeen but nobody is responding. has anybody done a recent purchase?

ClarkinHawaii, can you post a pic of your painted frame? I really want a painted frame but finding a design and relaying that to the seller could be a problem???


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

BernyMac said:


> I've been trying to contact greatkeen but nobody is responding. has anybody done a recent purchase?
> 
> ClarkinHawaii, can you post a pic of your painted frame? I really want a painted frame but finding a design and relaying that to the seller could be a problem???


No camera, but it's just solid, bright red throughout frame and fork. Actually some white and some exposed carbon would be nice, but I just did the first thing that came to mind.


----------



## stubek

For those who bought the FM018, I would really like to see a write up of how you like riding it, how it corners, how stable it is, especially compared to some of the name brand bikes out there. I just have this thing against spending the money to buy the frame and components and time to build it to find out that I do not like its characteristics.

Also, is there anyone in the Silicon Valley area who has built and FM018 that would be willing to let me do a test ride?

Thanks


----------



## Matador-IV

ultraman6970 said:


> Blackdogg the problem with a frame that is too short is the UCI rules for the saddle position in reference with the BB center, if the frame is short u just move the saddle all the way back but with UCI rules u can't do that. There is a limit for of how far back u can go with the saddle. So if the frame itself it is shorter when u cant go that far with the saddle u might get kind'a shorter in the position.
> cheers


I believe UCI rule states the seat must be at least 5cm *behind* center of the BB.

.


----------



## stevesbike

it's not about a bike being 'short' (whatever that means). It's about the seat tube angle. It's not hard to conform to the 5cm rule even with a 78 degree seat tube angle. Just get a saddle that is close to the min. 24cm rule. I run an Adamo racing (24.5cm long) and it sits in the middle of the rails at 5cm behind BB.

If anything. a bike that is too long is more problematic since the front of aerobars cannot be more than 75cm in front of the BB unless you go through the process of getting a morphological exemption and can then add 5cm


----------



## ms6073

bikensteve901 said:


> These instructions for adjusting the Bontrager type seatpost were spot on. Disassembling them and adding a little lubricant (grease) made them quite easy to adjust. The clamping mechanism seems to hold well without any slippage. Admittedly, it is not as easy to adjust as the Bontrager center bolt type, but once it is set it should hold without the need for additional adjustment.


I have the DengFu LTD time trial frame and I thought about swapping in the Bontrager parts but instead opted to use the Bontrager design as the basis for modifying the supplied seat clamp. I purchased a suitable spring from a local hardware store that was slightly longer than the width of the seat post and a tad larger in diameter than the through bolt. The spring as inserted over the through bolt between the two seat clamps which results in the spring pressing against the inner faces of each half of the clamp mechanism. When the seat clamp bolt is loosened, the spring drives the two clamps appart as well as providing pressure on seat rails allowing for much easier seat angle adjustments.


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

Matador-IV said:


> I believe UCI rule states the seat must be at least 5cm *behind* center of the BB.
> 
> .


The angle of your seat tube makes you sit more or less behind the BB center. Short bikes only makes you take longer stems. 

If you take a special seatpost to sit more backwards to have the ideal lenght, because even the longest stem is too short.... than your bike is a size too small and you change your natural/calculated position.

And there is, I think, no UCI rule that says that you can sit a max of lenght behind the BB... a minimum like Matador says..yes... but maximum?


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

ms6073 said:


> I have the DengFu LTD time trial frame and I thought about swapping in the Bontrager parts but instead opted to use the Bontrager design as the basis for a modifying mine. I opted to purchase a spring from a local hardware store that was slightly longer than the width of the seat post and larger in diameter than the through bolt. The spring as inserted over the through bolt between the two seat clamps which results in the spring pressing against the inner faces of each half of the clamp mechanism. When the seat clamp bolt is loosened, the spring drives the two clamps appart as well as providing pressure on seat rails allowing for much easier seat angle adjustments.


I'm going to do this--Thanks


----------



## stevesbike

BlackDoggystyle said:


> The angle of your seat tube makes you sit more or less behind the BB center. Short bikes only makes you take longer stems.
> 
> If you take a special seatpost to sit more backwards to have the ideal lenght, because even the longest stem is too short.... than your bike is a size too small and you change your natural/calculated position.
> 
> And there is, I think, no UCI rule that says that you can sit a max of lenght behind the BB... a minimum like Matador says..yes... but maximum?


what are you talking about? For one, you should never use fore/aft saddle position to work out your reach. The TT frames mentioned in this thread are pretty typical in terms of their toptube lengths - none are particularly 'short.'


----------



## WheresWaldo

I don't really see how anyone can say these are short frames. Bike fit is a number of things but the physics are always the same. As an adult your basic dimensions are already set, so contact points on the bike remain constant relative to each other.

Look at it like this, there are three contact points your feet, your ass, and your hands. Once you have determined to correct fit, whether through trial and error or through some automagical formula, those positions are set. Regardless of seat tube angle, your ass will be so many centimeters behind the bottom bracket. The only thing that really effects is usually whether or not you will need a setback seatpost or not!. Once your ass and feet are in the correct position then your hands can only go one place. Your hands will be just where they are supposed to be for your body size and type. 

All this related to frame size only with respects to some component choices and how flexible you are. There are exceptions of course, and all these frames tend to get a bit more compact the in the bigger sizes. If you are tall and have a long torso you will need to make some important decisions about fit that you may not be able to accommodate. If you are more typical in size then you will have no problems fitting on one of these frames. If you are between sizes, think long and hard about STACK height especially if you are a little less flexible than you used to be.

To lump all these frames into the "they are shorter" category is simply not correct. Look at most of the current manufacturers, there is a growing trend to build frames with shorter top tubes and shorter head tubes than in the past. It is not just the "Chinese" that are doing this. This trend shall also pass and in a year or two we will see it swing back to more top tube length and taller head tubes to appease their aging demographic.


----------



## ColoRoadie

BernyMac said:


> I've been trying to contact greatkeen but nobody is responding. has anybody done a recent purchase?



Check your spam folder. I thought they had ignored my request for an invoice so that I could verify the order was correct before sending paypal...but as it turns out, yahoo put it in my junk mail folder. That's the first email of theirs that went there (and the first from Mina's address instead of Tony's...though Tony's name was at the bottom). In any event, all was correct and I sent the paypal today. FM027 (3k clear), Fork, Headset and extra hanger are all in stock and will ship in a day or two at most according to Tony. Keeping my fingers crossed.


----------



## stubek

Does anybody know what this frame is derived from or have experience with the seller Sanmig Wish Trade on Alibaba?
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/265440590/Carbon_TT_frame.html
The Frame is called Winspace Speed-Shuttle


----------



## stubek

stevesbike said:


> what are you talking about? For one, you should never use fore/aft saddle position to work out your reach. The TT frames mentioned in this thread are pretty typical in terms of their toptube lengths - none are particularly 'short.'


fore/aft saddle position should be used 90% for adjusting your peddle angle and very little for your reach.
Stem height, angle, and length are for reach.
If you think a frame is too short, either look at the next longer top tube in that frame or go with a different frame.

I for one cannot ride any of the Specialized bikes with the curved top tube (Transition, Tarmac, Rubaix) because the geometry on all of them is such that if I ride a bike with the correct seat tube length for me, then the top tube is either too long or too short even with stem adjustment for me to be comfortable and vice versa if I go by top tube length.


----------



## ultraman6970

stevesbike said:


> it's not about a bike being 'short' (whatever that means). It's about the seat tube angle. It's not hard to conform to the 5cm rule even with a 78 degree seat tube angle. Just get a saddle that is close to the min. 24cm rule. I run an Adamo racing (24.5cm long) and it sits in the middle of the rails at 5cm behind BB.
> 
> If anything. a bike that is too long is more problematic since the front of aerobars cannot be more than 75cm in front of the BB unless you go through the process of getting a morphological exemption and can then add 5cm


U just mentioned it, 78 degrees, but if you have a short frame that is 73 degrees that's an inconvenience because for example, u used to ride UCI fine in a 56 cm frame, but now u are short like 2 to 3 cms because these chinese frames are that short, so it means that now u need to stretch more, u have two ways to do it, one is a longer stem and the other way is to go maybe all the way back with the seat. With the seat u cant go all the way back if you go UCI, specially if the frame geometry is relaxed. A longer stem will work but up to some point because it sucks to ride a frame that is too short even tho u have made the mods needed to fit you kind'a ok. Thats what im saying.


----------



## BernyMac

ColoRoadie said:


> Check your spam folder. I thought they had ignored my request for an invoice so that I could verify the order was correct before sending paypal...but as it turns out, yahoo put it in my junk mail folder. That's the first email of theirs that went there (and the first from Mina's address instead of Tony's...though Tony's name was at the bottom). In any event, all was correct and I sent the paypal today. FM027 (3k clear), Fork, Headset and extra hanger are all in stock and will ship in a day or two at most according to Tony. Keeping my fingers crossed.


Thanks for the tip. I checked my spam folders and still nothing . They must be very busy nowadays. This is why it is difficult to read through these threads when people get off topic and start talking about UCI rules and stuff. Just sayin'...


----------



## stevesbike

ultraman6970 said:


> U just mentioned it, 78 degrees, but if you have a short frame that is 73 degrees that's an inconvenience because for example, u used to ride UCI fine in a 56 cm frame, but now u are short like 2 to 3 cms because these chinese frames are that short, so it means that now u need to stretch more, u have two ways to do it, one is a longer stem and the other way is to go maybe all the way back with the seat. With the seat u cant go all the way back if you go UCI, specially if the frame geometry is relaxed. A longer stem will work but up to some point because it sucks to ride a frame that is too short even tho u have made the mods needed to fit you kind'a ok. Thats what im saying.


if you're talking about the road frames, most of the ones I've seen have industry typical top tube lengths. I think you also mean pushing the saddle all the way forward, not back, but it's really unusual for a road setup to run into problems with the 5cm rule.


----------



## fusedterror

I'm about to order one of these for 2010 frames from hongfu. 

Does anyone know what frame they are "knocking off"?

http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Products.asp?Id=455

http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Products.asp?Id=454

I'm leaning towards fm0001, because it's a bit lighter.


----------



## stubek

BernyMac said:


> Thanks for the tip. I checked my spam folders and still nothing . They must be very busy nowadays. This is why it is difficult to read through these threads when people get off topic and start talking about UCI rules and stuff. Just sayin'...


I emailed Tony 2 days ago also and no reply.

As for off topic, I think the UCI rules are valid here if these frames are made to a slightly different standard. The major manufacturers have to build to UCI since their stuff is used there,but you don't see too many sponsored riders showing up on blank frames from China.


----------



## agarabaghi

decides to jump on the china carbon bangwagon...

I picked this bike up from 88bikefun... Has several questions from people who have bought this particular frame.










1) 
For headset, I was told the Cane Creek IS 8i (italian) headset is a direct fit for this frame? Anyone know if this is true, or should i wait till i measure the frame and then order the headset?

2) 
What is the seat post clamp size? I know the seat tube is 31.6 and the fd clamp size is 34.9, can i assume that a 34.9 clamp will work?

3)
Is the FSA compression plug a good idea for the fork? I know you cant use star nuts, so I was told this compression plug is ideal.

Thanks!


----------



## SilentAssassin

WheresWaldo said:


> I don't really see how anyone can say these are short frames. Bike fit is a number of things but the physics are always the same. As an adult your basic dimensions are already set, so contact points on the bike remain constant relative to each other.
> 
> Look at it like this, there are three contact points your feet, your ass, and your hands. Once you have determined to correct fit, whether through trial and error or through some automagical formula, those positions are set. Regardless of seat tube angle, your ass will be so many centimeters behind the bottom bracket. The only thing that really effects is usually whether or not you will need a setback seatpost or not!. Once your ass and feet are in the correct position then your hands can only go one place. Your hands will be just where they are supposed to be for your body size and type.
> 
> All this related to frame size only with respects to some component choices and how flexible you are. There are exceptions of course, and all these frames tend to get a bit more compact the in the bigger sizes. If you are tall and have a long torso you will need to make some important decisions about fit that you may not be able to accommodate. If you are more typical in size then you will have no problems fitting on one of these frames. If you are between sizes, think long and hard about STACK height especially if you are a little less flexible than you used to be.
> 
> To lump all these frames into the "they are shorter" category is simply not correct. Look at most of the current manufacturers, there is a growing trend to build frames with shorter top tubes and shorter head tubes than in the past. It is not just the "Chinese" that are doing this. This trend shall also pass and in a year or two we will see it swing back to more top tube length and taller head tubes to appease their aging demographic.


So these bikes aren't sized like Tarmacs?


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

stevesbike said:


> what are you talking about? For one, you should never use fore/aft saddle position to work out your reach. The TT frames mentioned in this thread are pretty typical in terms of their toptube lengths - none are particularly 'short.'


 You read want you want to read or you just can't read...but i'm sure I'm just saying the same thing you just did... this thread is getting funnier by the day.
 What I meant by if you need to change saddle position to have a longer reach the bike is too small/short for you ...BECAUSE YOU NEVER TOUCH the saddle position... so better? Does everything needs to spelled out here???


btw...like Whereswaldo is saying...

These frames have all normal geometry. Problem is that most people DON'T READ THE HOLE THREAD they would already notice the pictures from the geometries posted in this thread. ..or just don't have much bike experience and just talk *****.


----------



## ColoRoadie

For those of you who have ordered through Tony at Greatkeen, as I just did. Will there be a tracking number supplied when they ship? How long did shipping take for yours?


----------



## stubek

Do these look like SRAM Red bar end shifters? 
http://carbon-products.en.alibaba.com/product/295273084-0/microshift.html

This stuff is coming out so quick, I expect full carbon Dura Ace and Red groups to be out by the end of the year.


----------



## timed

agarabaghi said:


> 1)
> For headset, I was told the Cane Creek IS 8i (italian) headset is a direct fit for this frame? Anyone know if this is true, or should i wait till i measure the frame and then order the headset?
> 
> 2)
> What is the seat post clamp size? I know the seat tube is 31.6 and the fd clamp size is 34.9, can i assume that a 34.9 clamp will work?
> 
> 3)
> Is the FSA compression plug a good idea for the fork? I know you cant use star nuts, so I was told this compression plug is ideal.


1) The seller won't lie for you, if he say cane creek IS 8i, that will fit. I ordered a headset together with my china-frame to eliminate the headset problem. ask him if he offers a headset?

2) dunno, measure the frame when you got it, but it will probably be a 34,9.

3) any compression plug will work fine, FSA, Tune, Ritchey, Extralite, token or whatever compression plug you can get hold on. Personally i use the Tune GumGum with good result.


----------



## stevesbike

I would purchase a headset from someone other than the frame seller - the headsets I've seen from them are lower quality ones. You can get any campy-style headset (the i designation from cane creek) and can get one with a lower stack height than the 8i if you want.


----------



## HeluvaSkier

agarabaghi said:


> 1)
> For headset, I was told the Cane Creek IS 8i (italian) headset is a direct fit for this frame? Anyone know if this is true, or should i wait till i measure the frame and then order the headset?
> 
> 2)
> What is the seat post clamp size? I know the seat tube is 31.6 and the fd clamp size is 34.9, can i assume that a 34.9 clamp will work?
> 
> 3)
> Is the FSA compression plug a good idea for the fork? I know you cant use star nuts, so I was told this compression plug is ideal.
> 
> Thanks!


1) They require campy style headsets, so if it is a 45/45 campy headset then you're good. 
2) 34.9mm to fit a 31.6mm post. 
3) FSA or any other compression plug is fine. I've used several different plugs on my carbon frames and the FSA is one of my favorites for both weight and function.


----------



## onurf

Is that a bad idea to use FM028 with a flat handlebar with a cheap shimano 105 groupset as a hybrid bike which is more aggressive ?


----------



## Urb

onurf said:


> Is that a bad idea to use FM028 with a flat handlebar with a cheap shimano 105 groupset as a hybrid bike which is more aggressive ?


Go for it.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

Somebody who owns both the 015 and the 027 said he was going to do a comparison for us after the long weekend. Hint, hint!


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

ColoRoadie said:


> For those of you who have ordered through Tony at Greatkeen, as I just did. Will there be a tracking number supplied when they ship? How long did shipping take for yours?


They normally give you the tracking number when it ships...or just ask...

For me it took 3days to arrive at my country (Belgium) and 2 more weeks to pass customs


----------



## config

*Greatkeen disappointment*

I received my frame and fork from Greatkeen and my front wheel will not fit on the fork. It will but then it won't turn. There is absolutely no clearance from the inside of the fork to the top of the tire. The brake caliper lies directly on top of my tire (i have Conti GP 4000S, my other wheel does the same). The brake pads are over 1cm above the braking surface of the rim and won't adjust that far. 

I have contacted Greatkeen and am somewhat getting the run-around for 2 days. They're saying the measurements are correct despite the pictures I had sent them. It's just my luck.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

fusedterror said:


> I'm about to order one of these for 2010 frames from hongfu.
> 
> Does anyone know what frame they are "knocking off"?
> 
> http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Products.asp?Id=455
> 
> http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Products.asp?Id=454
> 
> I'm leaning towards fm0001, because it's a bit lighter.


the 001 knocks off the Kuota Kredo, the 004 = ?


----------



## stubek

config said:


> I received my frame and fork from Greatkeen and my front wheel will not fit on the fork. It will but then it won't turn. There is absolutely no clearance. The brake caliper lies directly on top of my tire (i have Conti 4000S). The brake pads is over 1cm above the braking surface of the rim and won't adjust that far.


Can you post a picture? Or start a new thread to discuss this and post a picture. I don't understand what is rubbing on the wheel. Is it the brake caliper, the pad, or something else?


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

stubek said:


> Do these look like SRAM Red bar end shifters?
> http://carbon-products.en.alibaba.com/product/295273084-0/microshift.html
> 
> This stuff is coming out so quick, I expect full carbon Dura Ace and Red groups to be out by the end of the year.


Is it a good idea to buy components from these guys? Haven't heard anything about it. Good prices?

It would be interesting to know what kind of prices they charge for complete bikes with Shimano components . . .


----------



## stubek

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Is it a good idea to buy components from these guys? Haven't heard anything about it. Good prices?
> 
> It would be interesting to know what kind of prices they charge for complete bikes with Shimano components . . .


This is really one of the first components I have seen. Till now, only frames, wheels, stems, seat posts, and handle bars.

I suppose it is "easy" to make the molded CF items, but getting into the business of making derailleurs will be a challenge.


----------



## ColoRoadie

config said:


> I received my frame and fork from Greatkeen and my front wheel will not fit on the fork. It will but then it won't turn. There is absolutely no clearance from the inside of the fork to the top of the tire. The brake caliper lies directly on top of my tire (i have Conti GP 4000S, my other wheel does the same). The brake pads are over 1cm above the braking surface of the rim and won't adjust that far.
> 
> I have contacted Greatkeen and am somewhat getting the run-around for 2 days. They're saying the measurements are correct despite the pictures I had sent them. It's just my luck.


That is scary to say the least, considering I just paid them for mine yesterday. Start a paypal claim quickly if they will not budge. Has anyone else had this trouble? Which frame and fork did you buy?


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

config said:


> I received my frame and fork from Greatkeen and my front wheel will not fit on the fork. It will but then it won't turn. There is absolutely no clearance from the inside of the fork to the top of the tire. The brake caliper lies directly on top of my tire (i have Conti GP 4000S, my other wheel does the same). The brake pads are over 1cm above the braking surface of the rim and won't adjust that far.
> 
> I have contacted Greatkeen and am somewhat getting the run-around for 2 days. They're saying the measurements are correct despite the pictures I had sent them. It's just my luck.


When you attach a cable to that brake, it pulls up the part that I can see is hitting the tire. Compress the brake with your hand to simulate the cable pull and then see if anything else is rubbing.


----------



## stubek

ClarkinHawaii said:


> When you attach a cable to that brake, it pulls up the part that I can see is hitting the tire. Compress the brake with your hand to simulate the cable pull and then see if anything else is rubbing.


I think the issue might be you have a 650 mm fork and a 700 mm wheel on it


----------



## stubek

config said:


> I received my frame and fork from Greatkeen and my front wheel will not fit on the fork. It will but then it won't turn. There is absolutely no clearance from the inside of the fork to the top of the tire. The brake caliper lies directly on top of my tire (i have Conti GP 4000S, my other wheel does the same). The brake pads are over 1cm above the braking surface of the rim and won't adjust that far.
> 
> I have contacted Greatkeen and am somewhat getting the run-around for 2 days. They're saying the measurements are correct despite the pictures I had sent them. It's just my luck.


Ok, looks like you got a 650 fork and have a 700 wheel in it. Just tell them to ship you a new fork and send them the picture.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

stubek said:


> Ok, looks like you got a 650 fork and have a 700 wheel in it. Just tell them to ship you a new fork and send them the picture.


I don't know how you can determine that when the front of the brake is blocking the view of the fork arch and wheel. ??


----------



## ColoRoadie

config said:


> I received my frame and fork from Greatkeen and my front wheel will not fit on the fork. It will but then it won't turn. There is absolutely no clearance from the inside of the fork to the top of the tire. The brake caliper lies directly on top of my tire (i have Conti GP 4000S, my other wheel does the same). The brake pads are over 1cm above the braking surface of the rim and won't adjust that far.
> 
> I have contacted Greatkeen and am somewhat getting the run-around for 2 days. They're saying the measurements are correct despite the pictures I had sent them. It's just my luck.


I just took a closer look at your photo and I alone have found the problem. Sure, it could be the wrong size fork like all of these other 'experts' claim...but it is my opinion that someone has stolen your Campagnolo brakes and replaced them with a cheap knockoff...which is clearly causing problems. Red? Who are they kidding....those are quite obviously silver with white lettering. There isn't even any red on them! I think you've been had my friend. The clear and obvious fix is to have Tony send you a replacement fork and bolt some italian brakes on it...so that this doesn't happen again. 

My frame is on the wing...shipped today! Here is hoping I don't have the same difficulty you have. Tony is online now at the alibaba chat deal...see if he can get you fixed up and keep us posted.


----------



## BernyMac

ColoRoadie said:


> I just took a closer look at your photo and I alone have found the problem. Sure, it could be the wrong size fork like all of these other 'experts' claim...*but it is my opinion that someone has stolen your Campagnolo brakes and replaced them with a cheap knockoff...which is clearly causing problems. Red? Who are they kidding....those are quite obviously silver with white lettering. There isn't even any red on them! * I think you've been had my friend. The clear and obvious fix is to have Tony send you a replacement fork and bolt some italian brakes on it...so that this doesn't happen again.
> 
> My frame is on the wing...shipped today! Here is hoping I don't have the same difficulty you have. Tony is online now at the alibaba chat deal...see if he can get you fixed up and keep us posted.


:confused5:


----------



## stubek

ColoRoadie said:


> Red? Who are they kidding....those are quite obviously silver with white lettering. There isn't even any red on them!


Um, sorry to tell you this, but SRAM Red brakes are silver with white lettering. I have them on my bike http://www.sram.com/sram/road/products/sram-red-brakeset

Before you call people "experts" in a way that you mean to be somewhat derogatory, check your facts. 

I will admit that I could be wrong saying its a 650 fork.
Now that I look closer, I wonder if the suggestion above about squeezing the pads together would raise that arm off the brake.

Does the wheel touch the bottom of the fork crown, or is it just the brake in the way?


----------



## mrcreosote

config said:


> I received my frame and fork from Greatkeen and my front wheel will not fit on the fork. It will but then it won't turn. There is absolutely no clearance from the inside of the fork to the top of the tire. The brake caliper lies directly on top of my tire (i have Conti GP 4000S, my other wheel does the same). The brake pads are over 1cm above the braking surface of the rim and won't adjust that far.
> 
> I have contacted Greatkeen and am somewhat getting the run-around for 2 days. They're saying the measurements are correct despite the pictures I had sent them. It's just my luck.


as others have said, looks like a 650c fork. FWIW, a 700c for should be about 370mm vs about 340mm for a 650c

see http://www.frameforum.org/forum2/index.php?showtopic=165

mrcreosote


----------



## config

The wheel does touch the bottom of the fork crown. It's just much worse with the brakes. Interestingly enough, the outside measurements of the fork seem to be correct, approx 370mm but it's the inside of the fork that really matters, unless I seat and clamp the skewers about 1 cm from where they should be but I'm risking my life doing that.




stubek said:


> Um, sorry to tell you this, but SRAM Red brakes are silver with white lettering. I have them on my bike http://www.sram.com/sram/road/products/sram-red-brakeset
> 
> Before you call people "experts" in a way that you mean to be somewhat derogatory, check your facts.
> 
> I will admit that I could be wrong saying its a 650 fork.
> Now that I look closer, I wonder if the suggestion above about squeezing the pads together would raise that arm off the brake.
> 
> Does the wheel touch the bottom of the fork crown, or is it just the brake in the way?


----------



## stubek

config said:


> The wheel does touch the bottom of the fork crown. It's just much worse with the brakes. Interestingly enough, the outside measurements of the fork seem to be correct, approx 370mm but it's the inside of the fork that really matters,


Hmmm, I wonder if there was excess material they did not remove before finishing.

Let us know how it goes, I got email from Tony today and am deciding which TT frame and where to order it from intending to order by Monday.


----------



## mcrent100

config said:


> The wheel does touch the bottom of the fork crown. It's just much worse with the brakes. Interestingly enough, the outside measurements of the fork seem to be correct, approx 370mm but it's the inside of the fork that really matters, unless I seat and clamp the skewers about 1 cm from where they should be but I'm risking my life doing that.


How about a photo without the wheel in the fork....


----------



## WheresWaldo

SilentAssassin said:


> So these bikes aren't sized like Tarmacs?


Tarmacs have shitty geometry :blush2:


----------



## ColoRoadie

stubek said:


> Um, sorry to tell you this, but SRAM Red brakes are silver with white lettering. I have them on my bike http://www.sram.com/sram/road/products/sram-red-brakeset
> 
> Before you call people "experts" in a way that you mean to be somewhat derogatory, check your facts.


Was it really that unclear that I was pulling the guys leg?


----------



## stubek

Sorry ColoRoadie,
It is hard to tell in all text what is humor and what is not especially when some of the other parts of your post were clearly serious and there was a discussion on knock off components earlier on here.


----------



## ultraman6970

The guys in my opinion sent him a track fork and drilled the hole because usually new forks have the hole in there it is just pop the carbon a little bit the hole will be open.

Or they drilled the hole too low but since the op says that the wheel touch the crown fork i believe he got a track fork.


----------



## stevesbike

just to make sure since the fork isn't installed in the frame yet - you don't have the fork backwards, right?


----------



## bcsride

*DNK frame recieved*



bcsride said:


> I have an order for a frameset in at DNK. I'll give you the full summary when I get it, I thought I would wait until that point to post so I could be succinct and comprehensive


DNK frame came today. Brief summary. I contacted DNK through alibaba at the end of July. The email address I used for correspondence is [email protected]. My contact was Ms. Linda Liu. I asked lots of questions for about four weeks. She answered them all. Her english is good overall. I sent my paypal payment on Aug 18th with a promised ship date of about Aug 30. I ordered a frame (with seatmast topper), fork, and headset. Frame $295, fork $67, headset $19.50, shipping $75, paypal and handling $20 - total damage = $467.50 US. 

After I paid, I was told that there was a delay for the frame size I wanted. I was told I could get a smaller frame in the original time frame or wait until Sept 17. I waited. The frameset shipped around Sept 4. Initially, Ms Liu gave me the incorrect tracking number so it appeared "my" frame was sent to the wrong address - it was a mess up in communication between shipping and Ms. Liu. On followup, she sent me the correct tracking number. I got the correct frame on Sept 9. 

The frame was not packed that great (I'll post pictures if I can figure it out how to do it, but I am not a frequent forum user). However, the frame appears undamaged. but, there is no headset. I have sent Ms. Liu an email about this. At this point, she says shipping sent it. I don't have it. We'll see how this resolves. The headset charge was $19.50 US. The frame has a very small chip in the finish on the head tube. I think this occurred during shipping. The finish overall is very good. It isn't perfect. I can see some spots where little bits of dust are in the finish, but overall it is very good. I think visable frame quality and fit and finish it is consistent with to better than my expectations. I can see various joints in the 3K finish at what would be major joints (tube junctions etc.). I don't know how much different this is from branded frames. My CF Look has paint over all the areas where these finish joints would be visable. 

Overall dealing with DNK/Ms. Liu was very good. She is very professional. She has good english. She knows what she is doing. In terms of interacting with Ms Liu/DNK, I would say all good. Really, no worries except for this headset issue. We'll see. I think that DNK shipping is a bit sloppy. 

Some comments on initial frame quality. The frame looks good. I have weights in the pictures if they show. The fork is 374g, the seat mast topper is 201g, the frame is 1237 g for a size 58/810 frame. The "manufacture listed weight" was fork 350 +- 10, and frame 1150 =- 30 frame size not specified. The passage way for the front derailleur cable is a bit curious - we'll see if it works well. 

As an important quality control shortcoming, the seat mast topper does not slip over the seat mast. It looks like it will fit with some sanding on the inside of the seat mast topper. This is a bit hard to describe, but there appears to be a slight lip on the inside of the seatmast topper directly at the opening. Hopefully, a bit of sanding this down and I'll be in luck. I'll see. In terms of design, I have some doubts about the seat mast topper in general. The topper clamps to the seat mast with two allen bolts. These directly press against the seat mast. Carbon fiber is not really good in surface toughness, so I don't know how this will hold up. The sharp edges of a threaded fastener will fail it sooner rather than later. I'll try it, but I may need to stick something in there to distribute the load. Hmm.

As far as build up, ride, etc., it will be several weeks before I can get around to building it up. I'll be building it up with old (circa 2002) campy centaur stuff, so don't get excited. I'll give a build review and a ride review then - maybe the build review before I have much ride time on it. 

Overall, I think I am in about the "what I expected/hoped for" with a bit of "you get what you pay for" category. The missing headset will be irritating, but I can' freak out of $20. Also, the fact that the seat mast topper will require "manufacturing" on my part is not good.

Overall, communication and interaction with Ms. Liu was very good. So, I'll build this thing up, ride it hard and in about 4000 miles (6700K) we'll see how it holds up. If all is good - ride quality, handling, durability, etc. I would be happy to deal with DNK again. I think that the communication is good enough, that some of the quality control issues could be negotiated and straightened out if I was making a purchase of a scale that got their attention. I think I may do a bulk order from them if I like the frame ride and durability. Anyone up for a group buy? 

O.K. I'm going to try to post a bunch of pictures. Let's see how this goes.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

Very nice job with the write-up and pics.

What model is this? Is it a knockoff of some famous brand?

How did you select the company you bought from? (I think you're the first with them)


----------



## Zootv

was this the frame from DNK?

http://hkdnk.en.alibaba.com/product/316972785-209982021/ROAD_BIKE_FRAME.htmll


----------



## stubek

bcsride said:


> As an important quality control shortcoming, the seat mast topper does not slip over the seat mast...I have some doubts about the seat mast topper in general. The topper clamps to the seat mast with two allen bolts. These directly press against the seat mast. Carbon fiber is not really good in surface toughness, so I don't know how this will hold up. The sharp edges of a threaded fastener will fail it sooner rather than later.


I know some bikes, specifically the Fuji D6 Time Trial bike use a piece of stainless steal on the back of the seat post mast for that reason.


----------



## fusedterror

Please forgive my ignorance. I've only been road biking for two months. 

At the moment I'm riding a 2010 specialized allez aluminum frame in 58. 

I'm thinking about ordering this frame from hongfu. 
https://www.hongfu-bikes.com/Upload/Pic/200971921221563.jpg

Would a size 58 fit me here as well?

Here are my measurements from competitive cyclist. Thanks for the help!

Measurements
-------------------------------------------
Inseam: 33
Trunk: 27
Forearm: 15
Arm: 26
Thigh: 25
Lower Leg: 22.5
Sternal Notch: 60
Total Body Height: 73


The Competitive Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 54.3 - 54.8
Seat tube range c-t: 56.0 - 56.5
Top tube length: 56.8 - 57.2
Stem Length: 11.9 - 12.5
BB-Saddle Position: 71.8 - 73.8
Saddle-Handlebar: 56.5 - 57.1
Saddle Setback: 5.4 - 5.8


The Eddy Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 55.5 - 56.0
Seat tube range c-t: 57.2 - 57.7
Top tube length: 56.8 - 57.2
Stem Length: 10.8 - 11.4
BB-Saddle Position: 71.0 - 73.0
Saddle-Handlebar: 57.3 - 57.9
Saddle Setback: 6.6 - 7.0


The French Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 57.2 - 57.7
Seat tube range c-t: 58.9 - 59.4
Top tube length: 58.0 - 58.4
Stem Length: 11.0 - 11.6
BB-Saddle Position: 69.3 - 71.3
Saddle-Handlebar: 59.0 - 59.6
Saddle Setback: 6.1 - 6.5


----------



## Urb

bcsride said:


> DNK frame came today. Brief summary. I contacted DNK through alibaba at the end of July. The email address I used for correspondence is [email protected]. My contact was Ms. Linda Liu. I asked lots of questions for about four weeks. She answered them all. Her english is good overall. I sent my paypal payment on Aug 18th with a promised ship date of about Aug 30. I ordered a frame (with seatmast topper), fork, and headset. Frame $295, fork $67, headset $19.50, shipping $75, paypal and handling $20 - total damage = $467.50 US.
> 
> After I paid, I was told that there was a delay for the frame size I wanted. I was told I could get a smaller frame in the original time frame or wait until Sept 17. I waited. The frameset shipped around Sept 4. Initially, Ms Liu gave me the incorrect tracking number so it appeared "my" frame was sent to the wrong address - it was a mess up in communication between shipping and Ms. Liu. On followup, she sent me the correct tracking number. I got the correct frame on Sept 9.
> 
> The frame was not packed that great (I'll post pictures if I can figure it out how to do it, but I am not a frequent forum user). However, the frame appears undamaged. but, there is no headset. I have sent Ms. Liu an email about this. At this point, she says shipping sent it. I don't have it. We'll see how this resolves. The headset charge was $19.50 US. The frame has a very small chip in the finish on the head tube. I think this occurred during shipping. The finish overall is very good. It isn't perfect. I can see some spots where little bits of dust are in the finish, but overall it is very good. I think visable frame quality and fit and finish it is consistent with to better than my expectations. I can see various joints in the 3K finish at what would be major joints (tube junctions etc.). I don't know how much different this is from branded frames. My CF Look has paint over all the areas where these finish joints would be visable.
> 
> Overall dealing with DNK/Ms. Liu was very good. She is very professional. She has good english. She knows what she is doing. In terms of interacting with Ms Liu/DNK, I would say all good. Really, no worries except for this headset issue. We'll see. I think that DNK shipping is a bit sloppy.
> 
> Some comments on initial frame quality. The frame looks good. I have weights in the pictures if they show. The fork is 374g, the seat mast topper is 201g, the frame is 1237 g for a size 58/810 frame. The "manufacture listed weight" was fork 350 +- 10, and frame 1150 =- 30 frame size not specified. The passage way for the front derailleur cable is a bit curious - we'll see if it works well.
> 
> As an important quality control shortcoming, the seat mast topper does not slip over the seat mast. It looks like it will fit with some sanding on the inside of the seat mast topper. This is a bit hard to describe, but there appears to be a slight lip on the inside of the seatmast topper directly at the opening. Hopefully, a bit of sanding this down and I'll be in luck. I'll see. In terms of design, I have some doubts about the seat mast topper in general. The topper clamps to the seat mast with two allen bolts. These directly press against the seat mast. Carbon fiber is not really good in surface toughness, so I don't know how this will hold up. The sharp edges of a threaded fastener will fail it sooner rather than later. I'll try it, but I may need to stick something in there to distribute the load. Hmm.
> 
> As far as build up, ride, etc., it will be several weeks before I can get around to building it up. I'll be building it up with old (circa 2002) campy centaur stuff, so don't get excited. I'll give a build review and a ride review then - maybe the build review before I have much ride time on it.
> 
> Overall, I think I am in about the "what I expected/hoped for" with a bit of "you get what you pay for" category. The missing headset will be irritating, but I can' freak out of $20. Also, the fact that the seat mast topper will require "manufacturing" on my part is not good.
> 
> Overall, communication and interaction with Ms. Liu was very good. So, I'll build this thing up, ride it hard and in about 4000 miles (6700K) we'll see how it holds up. If all is good - ride quality, handling, durability, etc. I would be happy to deal with DNK again. I think that the communication is good enough, that some of the quality control issues could be negotiated and straightened out if I was making a purchase of a scale that got their attention. I think I may do a bulk order from them if I like the frame ride and durability. Anyone up for a group buy?
> 
> O.K. I'm going to try to post a bunch of pictures. Let's see how this goes.


Stout looking frame. Not a fan of the forks or the isp. Otherwise I'd be very interested in this frame for my winter build project. I'm looking foward to your build.


----------



## stubek

Fused Terror
Best thing to do is look at the Specialized website and the geometry for your current bike and then compare it to the geometry numbers for the new frame you are thinking of.

Remember, most measurements are in mm and 10mm =1cm and about 2.8cm=1 inch.


----------



## Urb

stubek said:


> Fused Terror
> Best thing to do is look at the Specialized website and the geometry for your current bike and then compare it to the geometry numbers for the new frame you are thinking of.
> 
> Remember, most measurements are in mm and 10mm =1cm and about 2.8cm=1 inch.


To be exact 2.54 cm = 1 inch


----------



## ultraman6970

And if even that way u cant figure it out use this site

http://manuelsweb.com/in_cm.htm


----------



## ms6073

HeluvaSkier said:


> 3) FSA or any other compression plug is fine. I've used several different plugs on my carbon frames and the FSA is one of my favorites for both weight and function.


My experience has been that the inner diameter of forks on the DengFu TT framesets is .1-.2mm smaller and that the Mega labeled compressor supplied with the frame has a 2.5mm lip that adds to fork steerer height. Because the carbon fork steerer tube inner diameter is smaller, I found that I could not use a Ultralite compressor or the FSA Carbon Compressor plug because the clamping mechanism is too large in diameter.


----------



## zigzag84

This is mine ... French road frame  

Miracle Compagy ( https://miracletrade.en.alibaba.com/featureproductlist.html)

Modéle: FM015

Contact : Jack Chen

MSN: [email protected]

Excellent comunication, very fast reply mail :thumbsup: ....


----------



## stubek

Awesome frame, love the paint job, especially the accent on the seat stays with the orange. Did you design that?


----------



## stubek

General question with these Chinese companies. I they don't take PayPal, should I just stay clear of them and not pay with bank transfer?


----------



## zigzag84

stubek said:


> Awesome frame, love the paint job, especially the accent on the seat stays with the orange. Did you design that?


Yes it's mine  Thank you ! I put pics when the road bike will be finish ...


----------



## VAMurph

Awesome...did they paint it or did you? What'd you do a massive purchase with all those frames in the background....


----------



## stubek

Zigzag84, I might have to get your help if I order a TT frame for the paint set up. You either did a great job communicating to them what you wanted or you had a good picture to start with.


----------



## karlo

I think that's one of their own paint schemes but on the picture it doesn't show how the orange goes all the way down on the seatstays which look good on Zigzag's frame

http://miracletrade.en.alibaba.com/product/313488858-209302584/Carbon_bicycle_frame_bike_frame.html


----------



## config

stubek,
I wouldn't pay through a bank transfer ever again. I got screwed over for $4K but that's another story. Paypal is a little better but you only have 45 days from payment to file for a claim or dispute. In my case, it took longer than 45 days to receive my frame so it wouldn't have mattered much. BTW, I just received an e-mail from Greatkeen that they've already arranged painting of my new fork and I can expect delivery in 10 days (that means 20). We'll see.

v/r
config



stubek said:


> General question with these Chinese companies. I they don't take PayPal, should I just stay clear of them and not pay with bank transfer?


----------



## zigzag84

VAMurph said:


> Awesome...did they paint it or did you? What'd you do a massive purchase with all those frames in the background....


Hi

They paint it whith my désign on all the way down on the seatstays.

I send at Miracle this document only


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

Can someone tell me what for size the lower bearing is on the FM28 headset? Top is 1 1/8" but the lower... 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" ?


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

btw...I'm getting troubles reading this thread...the way I had problems with the V.1 thread... Time 4 a V.3?


----------



## timed

BlackDoggystyle said:


> Can someone tell me what for size the lower bearing is on the FM28 headset? Top is 1 1/8" but the lower... 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" ?


fm028 has a 1 1/2"


----------



## BernyMac

zigzag84 said:


> Hi
> 
> They paint it whith my désign on all the way down on the seatstays.
> 
> I send at Miracle this document only


Where did you get the color reference? I want to design my own paint scheme and I am wondering how to communicate the design to them.


----------



## zigzag84

BernyMac said:


> Where did you get the color reference? I want to design my own paint scheme and I am wondering how to communicate the design to them.


You can use RAL référence color international  

Each color has a number référence.

ral color

After for the painted design, you must send her a picture of the frame as mine


----------



## VAMurph

zigzag84 said:


> Hi
> 
> They paint it whith my désign on all the way down on the seatstays.
> 
> I send at Miracle this document only



ZizZag84,

Two questions for you as I'm getting ready to pull the trigger next week on a frame from Miracle Trade.

1. Which model fork did you order?

2. Did they send you their paint picture or did you just mark up the picture on their web site? I'm trying to figure out how to mark up their picture with my color scheme and need some help.

Thanks
Murph


----------



## zigzag84

VAMurph said:


> ZizZag84,
> 
> Two questions for you as I'm getting ready to pull the trigger next week on a frame from Miracle Trade.
> 
> 1. Which model fork did you order?
> 
> 2. Did they send you their paint picture or did you just mark up the picture on their web site? I'm trying to figure out how to mark up their picture with my color scheme and need some help.
> 
> Thanks
> Murph


1/ Fork MO 007 + MT-H373 Headset + MT- SP003 Seat Post 31,6mm + clamp MT - SCS04

2/ i just mark up the picture on their web site and i describe my new color désign as the picture more up. It is very easy communication whith Jack Chen ... NO stress whit it !

Good luck


----------



## asad137

fusedterror said:


> Please forgive my ignorance. I've only been road biking for two months.


Then just keep riding. No need spending more money before you really know what you want.

Asad


----------



## SilentAssassin

You guys realize that most of these frames are sized considerably smaller than other bike manufacturers. For instance a lot of the 58cm frames have a 56cm top tube! What the heck? I think the Geometry on these bikes are a bit messed up, perhaps that is part of the defect. And getting the wrong size will render any $ that you saved into a $400 waste.


----------



## lobo

SilentAssassin said:


> You guys realize that most of these frames are sized considerably smaller than other bike manufacturers. For instance a lot of the 58cm frames have a 56cm top tube! What the heck? I think the Geometry on these bikes are a bit messed up, perhaps that is part of the defect. And getting the wrong size will render any $ that you saved into a $400 waste.


No, you are not right. I measured few frames from Hong Fu ( most was 015 ) and ALL of them were OK, i.e. if top tube was described as 504mm it was exactly 504mm long and same with other sizes


----------



## thatcap

SilentAssassin said:


> You guys realize that most of these frames are sized considerably smaller than other bike manufacturers. For instance a lot of the 58cm frames have a 56cm top tube! What the heck? I think the Geometry on these bikes are a bit messed up, perhaps that is part of the defect. And getting the wrong size will render any $ that you saved into a $400 waste.


Best you do some more research. My Sworks Tarmac SL2 is an XL(58cm) also has a top tube of 56cm. Remember your "BIG BRAND NAME" frames probably only costs the brand $400 but instead of traveling straight from manufacturer to your door, it goes through 3 different agencies with their 100% markup added each time. I personally feel there is nothing wrong with these "Chinese" frames. Every other frame on the market is designed and made by the chinese, so what is the difference?


----------



## stevesbike

thatcap said:


> Best you do some more research. My Sworks Tarmac SL2 is an XL(58cm) also has a top tube of 56cm. Remember your "BIG BRAND NAME" frames probably only costs the brand $400 but instead of traveling straight from manufacturer to your door, it goes through 3 different agencies with their 100% markup added each time. I personally feel there is nothing wrong with these "Chinese" frames. Every other frame on the market is designed and made by the chinese, so what is the difference?


the horizontal toptube on a 58 Tarmac is 58,2 (same on most Specialized road frames).


----------



## FTR

Some people getting confused between actual top tube and effective top tube on sloping frames.

If I could find an RFM101 in a 58cm I would be all over it.
Some sites seem to indicate they are available but when you go to the Greatkeen site it says not.


----------



## nickl75

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Is it a good idea to buy components from these guys? Haven't heard anything about it. Good prices?


There are a few reviews of microshift stuff around. It seems ok: http://road.cc/content/review/14420-microshift-arsis-carbon-10spd-groupset


----------



## thatcap

stevesbike said:


> the horizontal toptube on a 58 Tarmac is 58,2 (same on most Specialized road frames).


That is the "Effective" length, actual length is 56cm. I have a 2006 Scott cr1 and it's top tube measures 56cm as well. Even tho i don't even ride these chinese frames i firmly believe that they are as good as any other frame out there.


----------



## shadowland

nickl75 said:


> There are a few reviews of microshift stuff around. It seems ok: http://road.cc/content/review/14420-microshift-arsis-carbon-10spd-groupset



First, Hi to all, i've been reading this forums for monts now, impressive comunity.


About the Microshift Arsis, I have the 2007 version, identical to 2010 i think, +10000km on them, and 0 problems at all in any of the components. They are ****ing light, specially if you take in account the price (i get them for 230€, shipping included). The only "bad" is that they make noise everytime you change from one sproke to another, but that's all, you can't be a ninja cyclist with them  

I think that I can compare them to an ultegra. Definitely way better that a Shimano 105. I'm totally happy with them 

Regards, shadowland.


PS: Sorry for my ****ing bad english.


----------



## Renderdog

*DNK Frame*



bcsride said:


> DNK frame came today.
> 
> Some comments on initial frame quality. The frame looks good. I have weights in the pictures if they show. The fork is 374g, the seat mast topper is 201g, the frame is 1237 g for a size 58/810 frame. The "manufacture listed weight" was fork 350 +- 10, and frame 1150 =- 30 frame size not specified. The passage way for the front derailleur cable is a bit curious - we'll see if it works well.
> 
> As an important quality control shortcoming, the seat mast topper does not slip over the seat mast. It looks like it will fit with some sanding on the inside of the seat mast topper. This is a bit hard to describe, but there appears to be a slight lip on the inside of the seatmast topper directly at the opening. Hopefully, a bit of sanding this down and I'll be in luck. I'll see. In terms of design, I have some doubts about the seat mast topper in general. The topper clamps to the seat mast with two allen bolts. These directly press against the seat mast. Carbon fiber is not really good in surface toughness, so I don't know how this will hold up. The sharp edges of a threaded fastener will fail it sooner rather than later. I'll try it, but I may need to stick something in there to distribute the load. Hmm.


Great looking frame, those aero tubes weigh a little more but they'll make a faster bike, though probably a stiffer ride compared to round tubes. It's unfortunate they didn't pack it better, certainly one of the risks we take ordering direct from China.

I like the front derailleur mount, very nice, most of these frames require a clamp. I was also considering an ISP (integrated seat post) for the weight savings but I see the topper weighs about as much as many seatposts, so I wonder if it's worth the extra hassle (cutting seatmast, harder to pack bike for travel). Also as you noted, possibly some problems with their topper. Your seatmast is aero but then so are many carbon seatposts.

Thanks for posting all the great photos, I'm looking forward to seeing it built up. Are you going to paint it? I'd wager Look painted over your bike's finish joints to cover them up, patterned seams would be tough on a curvy frame.

That's a pretty hefty looking BB shell, I wonder if a BB30 frame would be lighter?


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

nickl75 said:


> There are a few reviews of microshift stuff around. It seems ok: http://road.cc/content/review/14420-microshift-arsis-carbon-10spd-groupset


interesting, thanks.


----------



## equinoxx

Just received my order from Mina at Deng Fu. Got fm015, fork, handlebar, headset, 2x bottle cages, and extra rear derailleur hanger. Everything arrived in perfect condition EXCEPT the frame did not have the plastic cable guide that sits underneath the bottom bracket.

My frame is a bb30 frame so I am having trouble finding a suitable cable guide locally. I emailed Mina yesterday but no response yet. Does anyone know where I can find a cable guide that will fit??


----------



## stevesbike

thatcap said:


> That is the "Effective" length, actual length is 56cm. I have a 2006 Scott cr1 and it's top tube measures 56cm as well. Even tho i don't even ride these chinese frames i firmly believe that they are as good as any other frame out there.


yes, but effective top tube length is the meaningful measure for comparison among frames since compact frames became common. I think the Chinese frames in this thread are OK - I have a time trial frame from greatkeen - but I wouldn't go as far as say they are as good as any frame out there. For one, I suspect the carbon spec on many of these frames is lower grade than most frames - there's very little mention of CF specs in these threads although many factories offer the same frame in terms of appearance (from the same mold) with different carbon grade options.


----------



## asherstash1

miracle trade new isp frame, http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/339404492/New_carbon_bike_frames_ISP.html
cant b bothad figuring how to post pic 

also wtf http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/316467458/carbon_bicycle_frame/showimage.html


----------



## BernyMac

equinoxx said:


> Just received my order from Mina at Deng Fu. Got fm015, fork, handlebar, headset, 2x bottle cages, and extra rear derailleur hanger. Everything arrived in perfect condition EXCEPT the frame did not have the plastic cable guide that sits underneath the bottom bracket.
> 
> My frame is a bb30 frame so I am having trouble finding a suitable cable guide locally. I emailed Mina yesterday but no response yet. Does anyone know where I can find a cable guide that will fit??


I don't believe that cable guides are bottom bracket specific.


----------



## alexb618

i would buy a track frame from hongfu/etc if the frames had a slightly taller headtube

apparently something like this is in the works


----------



## zender

stubek said:


> For those who bought the FM018, I would really like to see a write up of how you like riding it, how it corners, how stable it is, especially compared to some of the name brand bikes out there. I just have this thing against spending the money to buy the frame and components and time to build it to find out that I do not like its characteristics.
> 
> Also, is there anyone in the Silicon Valley area who has built and FM018 that would be willing to let me do a test ride?
> 
> Thanks


It rides fairly well given the geometry. But, being low and over the front wheel is not ideal for 30 mph + descents. The frame is straight, however, tracks well and soaks up the bumps reasonably well. 

The rear brake is a real weak link on this frame. The Tektro brake you get from DengFu is marginal at best because of cable stretch, no cable stop at the bottom bracket and the inherently scant cable pulled by most TT levers. With some effort, you can get it to work reasonably well, but consider that you might have to drop 200 bucks for a Simkins egg brake to get more reasonable stopping power. 

If your TT or Tri includes a lot of sweepy descents, I'd pass.

Assembly was pretty straightforward. The cable routing was especially slick. You shove the cable into the toptube and it magically appears somewhere else on the frame. Earlier Chinese TT frames had plastic tubing that extended past the cable stops and was a hassle to work with.

The rear wheel dropout is horizontal. I'm assuming this is so you can get that tire tucked in against the C-shaped seat tube. 

I did not buy a second derailleur hanger. With beefy aluminum mountain bikes, I can see the logic. But, I just don't see how the hanger will be the weak link on this frame. More than likely, if you catch the der. on something or crash, you'll rip the hanger threads out of the frame or break the stays before you break that Alu hanger.

Still playing with the positioning, but here is the assembled bike and that dreaded rear brake (no, the cable does not contact the paint).


----------



## stubek

zender said:


> The rear brake is a real weak link on this frame. The Tektro brake you get from DengFu is marginal at best because of cable stretch, no cable stop at the bottom bracket and the inherently scant cable pulled by most TT levers.


Thanks for the good summary. 
As for the Tektro break, it is the same one used on MANY bikes and it is a lousy brake. I have probably ridden half a dozen TT bikes in the last 2 months trying to pick what I want and the ones that use that Tektro are at a disadvantage. 

My advantage is that Eggskins is just about 5 minutes from my house.


----------



## nickl75

stevesbike said:


> For one, I suspect the carbon spec on many of these frames is lower grade than most frames - there's very little mention of CF specs in these threads although many factories offer the same frame in terms of appearance (from the same mold) with different carbon grade options.


It is difficult to get this information, but I noticed that Miracle Trade has started publishing that they use Toray T700.

According to this thread http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?450351-Does-the-type-of-carbon-really-make-a-difference Toray is one of the biggest manufactures.

A quote:



> Toray T-800, M30S and Stupid-High-Modulus M46J (We are talking $350/oz. for this stuff) is what these guys use for the premium gear.
> 
> Companies like Pinarello, Time, Look, Colnago, Specialized, Cannondale, Felt, Giant, FSA, 3T and Ritchey will use a mix of T-700 and M30S fibres for their frames and components. It even says "Toray M30S" on the side of some of the frames these companies build.
> 
> For lower end frames, you will find TR50S, TR30S, T-300 and T700 fibers. Maybe someone got crazy with some higher modulus pitch based IMS carbon fibres for a few medium range frames.


----------



## rruff

SilentAssassin said:


> You guys realize that most of these frames are sized considerably smaller than other bike manufacturers. For instance a lot of the 58cm frames have a 56cm top tube! What the heck? I think the Geometry on these bikes are a bit messed up, perhaps that is part of the defect. And getting the wrong size will render any $ that you saved into a $400 waste.


Compare some real sizing numbers like "stack" and "reach" and get back to me...

Also, if your knowledge of bike size and fitting is "I ride a 58" then you will run into lots of issues with big manufacturers as well.


----------



## thefutureofamerica

I emailed Jenny at Hong Fu and she replied quickly that their frames use all T700 fiber.


----------



## stubek

Is buying from people on Alibaba safe as long as you buy through PayPal which has good buyer protection? I see some really good deals on there that just seem like they are way too good to be true.


----------



## stevesbike

Zender, if you feel that TT frame isn't stable descending you might want to try moving your seat back a bit. I have the same frame and found with my saddle nose right at 5cm behind the BB the bike is very stable at speed. I raced it twice over the weekend and got a max speed of 47mph on a descent with no issues at all - I find it actually gets more stable at speed (that was with a 90 front wheel) but if your weight distribution is too far forward it will make the front end feel particularly heavy (for a 73 degree head tube angle I found the frame a lot slower than expected which is good for me since most of the time trials I do are not on technical courses). I also have the adamo saddle (tried it to get within the uci legal position) and found a huge difference in comfort with the rails exactly horizontal (they have a position video on their website).


----------



## JimmyD

I think Buying through alibaba.com is as safe as ebay. alibaba hold the funds until you leave feedback saying you have received the goods and are satisfied with them. then you money is forwarded to the seller. Ive only made one purchase so far but had no hassles.

Looking to buy a FM028 soon...if i can just find a review on one! any help?


----------



## stubek

JimmyD said:


> I think Buying through alibaba.com is as safe as ebay. alibaba hold the funds until you leave feedback saying you have received the goods and are satisfied with them.


Really? Most sellers ask for payment through PayPal, bank transfers, or Western Union. I would only pay through PayPal, but if you do that, then Alibaba never touches the money.


----------



## JimmyD

My apologies your right. I confused alibaba with madeinchina.com. similar sort of Chinese marketplace only not so many cycling suppliers.

My bad...


----------



## stubek

JimmyD said:


> My apologies your right. I confused alibaba with madeinchina.com. similar sort of Chinese marketplace only not so many cycling suppliers.
> My bad...


Cool, thanks for the update.


----------



## vis8892

Going to pull the trigger and order from DengFu today. Quick question - for PayPal they require 3.7% excess charge. Do I add this to the total when sending from PayPal or does PayPal auto add this to the total?


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

vis8892 said:


> Going to pull the trigger and order from DengFu today. Quick question - for PayPal they require 3.7% excess charge. Do I add this to the total when sending from PayPal or does PayPal auto add this to the total?


buy from Jenny at HongFu and don't have to pay it.


----------



## vis8892

ClarkinHawaii said:


> buy from Jenny at HongFu and don't have to pay it.


But Jenny wants more for an FM015 than Tony, even with the 3.7%.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

Oh.

You know, I think we're supposed to negotiate, not just lie down and pay whatever they say.

Just for fun, why don't you send Jenny email and say "Would prefer to buy from you but DengFu is $xx less for same thing. Should I buy from Dengfu or will you match price?"

It would be interesting to see what happens. Or if you don't want to bother, please post your total price and what you're actually getting, and I will do it. Alibaba makes frequent mention of "negotiating price". Don't see how it would hurt to ask.


----------



## vis8892

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Oh.
> 
> You know, I think we're supposed to negotiate, not just lie down and pay whatever they say.
> 
> Just for fun, why don't you send Jenny email and say "Would prefer to buy from you but DengFu is $xx less for same thing. Should I buy from Dengfu or will you match price?"
> 
> It would be interesting to see what happens. Or if you don't want to bother, please post your total price and what you're actually getting, and I will do it. Alibaba makes frequent mention of "negotiating price". Don't see how it would hurt to ask.


Your are right, I've been exchanging emails with Tony (DengFu), Jenny (HongFu) and Jack (Miracle-trading). I'm in no rush, so maybe I'll shoot out a few more. I'll post all relevant prices later.


----------



## karlo

Here was my quote from Miracle Trade (HK) Co.,Ltd as of last night. This does not include 2 bottle cages one was left out from the quote and also the Shipping and Paypal fee which I believe is $80 Shipping and about $18 Paypal fee so I think for everything at the end would come out at $578.

Frame&Fork:MT-MC015&MT-MO007:USD365/SET for clear coating .
weave:3k
BB:ENG BSA
size: 55cm

Handlebar :USD52/SET for clear coating .
Model:MT-HB005
31.8*440mm

Bottlecage :USD9/pcs for clear coating.
Model:MT-MBC008

Seatpost :USD25 for clear coating.
Model:MT-SP002

Clamp :USD2.
Mold: MT-SCS04
Color: RED

Headset:MT-H373:USD18/SET.

Total cost :USD471 + Shipping $80 + Paypal Fee $18 + 1 more Bottle Cage $9 = $578


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

stubek said:


> Is buying from people on Alibaba safe as long as you buy through PayPal which has good buyer protection? I see some really good deals on there that just seem like they are way too good to be true.


I'm curious to know what you've found that seems so good . . . ? I love bargains.

With regards to Paypal, my understanding is that the "protection" is sparce at best, pretty much limited to making sure you receive package, other than that you're pretty much on your own to work out problems with seller. If I am not correct, now is time for somebody to say so.


----------



## vis8892

karlo said:


> Here was my quote from DengFu as of last night. This does not include 2 bottle cages one was left out from the quote and also the Shipping and Paypal fee which I believe is $80 Shipping and about $18 Paypal fee so I think for everything at the end would come out at $578.
> 
> Frame&Fork:MT-MC015&MT-MO007:USD365/SET for clear coating .
> weave:3k
> BB:ENG BSA
> size: 55cm
> 
> Handlebar :USD52/SET for clear coating .
> Model:MT-HB005
> 31.8*440mm
> 
> Bottlecage :USD9/pcs for clear coating.
> Model:MT-MBC008
> 
> Seatpost :USD25 for clear coating.
> Model:MT-SP002
> 
> Clamp :USD2.
> Mold: MT-SCS04
> Color: RED
> 
> Headset:MT-H373:USD18/SET.
> 
> Total cost :USD471 + Shipping $80 + Paypal Fee $18 + 1 more Bottle Cage $9 = $578


DengFu? All the part numbers are for Miracle-Trading.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

I send email to Jenny now:

Hi, Jenny--

You know i love you, but your competitor DengFu has lower price on same stuff you have that I want.

You match price, or you want me to buy from other? (I still love you, but $$ important)

Thanks, regards, Clark


----------



## karlo

vis8892 said:


> DengFu? All the part numbers are for Miracle-Trading.


My fault, this is from Miracle Trade (HK) Co.,Ltd

:blush2: :blush2:

FIXED


----------



## vis8892

karlo said:


> Here was my quote from Miracle Trade (HK) Co.,Ltd as of last night. This does not include 2 bottle cages one was left out from the quote and also the Shipping and Paypal fee which I believe is $80 Shipping and about $18 Paypal fee so I think for everything at the end would come out at $578.
> 
> Frame&Fork:MT-MC015&MT-MO007:USD365/SET for clear coating .
> weave:3k
> BB:ENG BSA
> size: 55cm
> 
> Handlebar :USD52/SET for clear coating .
> Model:MT-HB005
> 31.8*440mm
> 
> Bottlecage :USD9/pcs for clear coating.
> Model:MT-MBC008
> 
> Seatpost :USD25 for clear coating.
> Model:MT-SP002
> 
> Clamp :USD2.
> Mold: MT-SCS04
> Color: RED
> 
> Headset:MT-H373:USD18/SET.
> 
> Total cost :USD471 + Shipping $80 + Paypal Fee $18 + 1 more Bottle Cage $9 = $578


All prices are straight out of the Miracle Trading catalog - https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B_...lhZTAtNjljNTM4MDQwNmRk&hl=en&authkey=CJ-f4N4J


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

I went looking for new decals for my Ti bike. 
Litespeed price total: $42
Bikesdecals price total: $18









I know none of you guys would dream of false-badging your FM001, but just for fun I asked about Kuota Kredo decals. They made some up in different color schemes for about $25. Here is white since my frame is red:









I ride solo, so nobody will ever know but me--heh heh. Of course my conscience will probably keep me awake nights that I didn't pay $3000 more for the privilege of having that name on my frame . . .


----------



## stubek

ClarkinHawaii said:


> I'm curious to know what you've found that seems so good . . . ? I love bargains.


A Cervelo P3 with SRAM Red and Zipp 1080/808 wheels for $3,000 including shipping. I think that is TGTBT


----------



## zender

stevesbike said:


> Zender, if you feel that TT frame isn't stable descending you might want to try moving your seat back a bit. I have the same frame and found with my saddle nose right at 5cm behind the BB the bike is very stable at speed. I raced it twice over the weekend and got a max speed of 47mph on a descent with no issues at all - I find it actually gets more stable at speed (that was with a 90 front wheel) but if your weight distribution is too far forward it will make the front end feel particularly heavy (for a 73 degree head tube angle I found the frame a lot slower than expected which is good for me since most of the time trials I do are not on technical courses). I also have the adamo saddle (tried it to get within the uci legal position) and found a huge difference in comfort with the rails exactly horizontal (they have a position video on their website).


Thanks for the tip. For that photo, I basically just "put all the components and frame in a plastic bag and shook them" -well, not really, but you get the idea. Absolutely no tweaking. But, I do get what you're saying. I come from mountain biking and the combination of essentially no rear brake and forward CG just feels wrong when descending. I did order up an egg brake though, but this bike is primarily for flat to rolling terrain in straight lines.


----------



## zender

Those look nice. I'm not sure if it's the same producer, but you can get official Litespeed decal sets for a variety of their Ti frames through a link from the Litespeed site. I went this route on my Vortex. For the DengFu, I think it would be good to get something deliberately misspelled as a joke. You can always do the old tried and true "Special ed" by removing a few letters from Specialized.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

Apparently they will do their best to accommodate you. Send an email and tell them what you want and how much you are willing to pay, they will put something together and post it on their site for you to look at before you actually order.

I don't know squat about decals and haven't received any from these people yet. However they do indicate that they are vinyl and supposed to last at least 5 years. I figure after 5 years I'll be ready for a new look anyway. Cheap bling  

Shipping is something like US$6 for all the decals you want to buy shipped anywhere in the world (from Uruguay). I'm still trying to decide if my Nashbar touring frame with 30 pounds of accessories should be a Colnago or a Pinarello


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

stubek said:


> A Cervelo P3 with SRAM Red and Zipp 1080/808 wheels for $3,000 including shipping. I think that is TGTBT


Please post link so i can see and try to find possible flaws. I don't know if i have the sand to send $3000 to one of these outfits. Maybe frame is knock-off haha.

Actually, this is serious point--how would you identify knock-off? Posters on here say no way to tell.


----------



## stubek

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Please post link so i can see and try to find possible flaws. I don't know if i have the sand to send $3000 to one of these outfits. Maybe frame is knock-off haha.
> 
> Actually, this is serious point--how would you identify knock-off? Posters on here say no way to tell.


here is one http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/107230881/_08_NEW_Cervelo_P3_Carbon.html
I can't find the one I was originally looking at.

As for telling the difference between a knock-off and real thing, there is always the serial number, but by the time you have the bike in your hands, if you call Cervelo with the s/n and they say its a fake, not much you can do.


----------



## stevesbike

stubek said:


> here is one http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/107230881/_08_NEW_Cervelo_P3_Carbon.html
> I can't find the one I was originally looking at.
> 
> As for telling the difference between a knock-off and real thing, there is always the serial number, but by the time you have the bike in your hands, if you call Cervelo with the s/n and they say its a fake, not much you can do.


these are typically scams - if you google search p3 images you'll likely find this image was pulled off a forum somewhere. They don't have the bike - just want you to send the $ via western union and then they disappear.


----------



## zender

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Please post link so i can see and try to find possible flaws. I don't know if i have the sand to send $3000 to one of these outfits. Maybe frame is knock-off haha.
> 
> Actually, this is serious point--how would you identify knock-off? Posters on here say no way to tell.


Hmm, aren't the wheels and Red worth more than 3 grand already (figuring in shipping). I suppose the wheels could be knock offs, but the SRAM group? I guess anything is possible.


----------



## BernyMac

ClarkinHawaii said:


> I went looking for new decals for my Ti bike.
> Litespeed price total: $42
> Bikesdecals price total: $18
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know none of you guys would dream of false-badging your FM001, but just for fun I asked about Kuota Kredo decals. They made some up in different color schemes for about $25. Here is white since my frame is red:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ride solo, so nobody will ever know but me--heh heh. Of course my conscience will probably keep me awake nights that I didn't pay $3000 more for the privilege of having that name on my frame . . .



Where did you get the decals made?


----------



## timed

I got my FM028 2 weeks ago, bought it from ebay due to the safety. Unfortently it was damaged when it arrived (a crushed downtube). I don't know who to blame, there was no damages at the package, and it was well packed with alot of bubblewrap and foam.. and i doubt the seller would ship it if he had known of the damage. Anyway the seller handle this as any other serious seller and are shipping me a new frame at no cost for me! that's service for me! I want to get the replacement frame before i tell who I have been dealing with, but he has a very good reputation on ebay today and i hope it will remain so.

I can't give my seller anything else then 10 out of 10 points. I'm very pleased with the services, compared to others experience when issues is the fact. everyone can do wrong and everyone can do mistakes, but this is an excellent example that there is serious chinese dealers out there in the cyberspace.

a few pictures on the damage. I have been sanding the area down and it's crushed true the core, so it's pretty useless at the moment. when my new frame arrives this one will go in the garbage.


----------



## BernyMac

Which company? It is getting confusing the way the Chinese makers are designating the frame numbers.

Anyway, on another note, I have been following a group buy that has been occurring over in Spain. Apparently, they have done Pinarello replica group buy and a lot of the recepients are not happy with the quality of paint and cracks on the paint job. The name of the comapny is Greatkeen and I am wondering if that is the same as Dengfu.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

BernyMac said:


> Where did you get the decals made?


Actually, it was in my original post--didn't make it too obvious so people would think I was shilling;
but since you asked:
bikesdecals.com  shill, shill 

Note: that "s" has to be there, it's not a mistake!


----------



## BernyMac

Clark, you really should post a pic of your bike. I want a custom red bike made as well.


----------



## stubek

stevesbike said:


> these are typically scams - if you google search p3 images you'll likely find this image was pulled off a forum somewhere. They don't have the bike - just want you to send the $ via western union and then they disappear.


That is what I thought which is why I was wondering about using PayPal. I had email with one of the people and they said they would take PayPal.


----------



## stevesbike

stubek said:


> That is what I thought which is why I was wondering about using PayPal. I had email with one of the people and they said they would take PayPal.


there's discussion of this using paypal in the scams (classified feedback) forum on this site.


----------



## tarzan13

timed said:


> I got my FM028 2 weeks ago, bought it from ebay due to the safety. Unfortently it was damaged when it arrived (a crushed downtube). I don't know who to blame, there was no damages at the package, and it was well packed with alot of bubblewrap and foam.. and i doubt the seller would ship it if he had known of the damage. Anyway the seller handle this as any other serious seller and are shipping me a new frame at no cost for me! that's service for me! I want to get the replacement frame before i tell who I have been dealing with, but he has a very good reputation on ebay today and i hope it will remain so.
> 
> I can't give my seller anything else then 10 out of 10 points. I'm very pleased with the services, compared to others experience when issues is the fact. everyone can do wrong and everyone can do mistakes, but this is an excellent example that there is serious chinese dealers out there in the cyberspace.
> 
> a few pictures on the damage. I have been sanding the area down and it's crushed true the core, so it's pretty useless at the moment. when my new frame arrives this one will go in the garbage.


Hi, 

Can you please let me know the seller's ebay ID?

Thanks


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

timed said:


> I got my FM028 2 weeks ago, bought it from ebay due to the safety. Unfortently it was damaged when it arrived (a crushed downtube). I don't know who to blame, there was no damages at the package, and it was well packed with alot of bubblewrap and foam.. and i doubt the seller would ship it if he had known of the damage. Anyway the seller handle this as any other serious seller and are shipping me a new frame at no cost for me! that's service for me! I want to get the replacement frame before i tell who I have been dealing with, but he has a very good reputation on ebay today and i hope it will remain so.
> 
> I can't give my seller anything else then 10 out of 10 points. I'm very pleased with the services, compared to others experience when issues is the fact. everyone can do wrong and everyone can do mistakes, but this is an excellent example that there is serious chinese dealers out there in the cyberspace.
> 
> a few pictures on the damage. I have been sanding the area down and it's crushed true the core, so it's pretty useless at the moment. when my new frame arrives this one will go in the garbage.


You make nice post but not useful without identify vendor!*

*I'm practicing my Chinese


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

BernyMac said:


> Clark, you really should post a pic of your bike. I want a custom red bike made as well.


You send camera, i post picture! Lots of picture!


----------



## stubek

tarzan13 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Can you please let me know the seller's ebay ID?
> 
> Thanks


He said he wants to clear it up before he gives the name. Probably so if the guy does come through, he can still recommend him.


----------



## bikensteve901

timed said:


> I got my FM028 2 weeks ago, bought it from ebay due to the safety. Unfortently it was damaged when it arrived (a crushed downtube). I don't know who to blame, there was no damages at the package, and it was well packed with alot of bubblewrap and foam.. and i doubt the seller would ship it if he had known of the damage. Anyway the seller handle this as any other serious seller and are shipping me a new frame at no cost for me! that's service for me! I want to get the replacement frame before i tell who I have been dealing with, but he has a very good reputation on ebay today and i hope it will remain so.
> 
> I can't give my seller anything else then 10 out of 10 points. I'm very pleased with the services, compared to others experience when issues is the fact. everyone can do wrong and everyone can do mistakes, but this is an excellent example that there is serious chinese dealers out there in the cyberspace.
> 
> a few pictures on the damage. I have been sanding the area down and it's crushed true the core, so it's pretty useless at the moment. when my new frame arrives this one will go in the garbage.


You may want to consider getting the frame repaired. There is a very reputible builder who repairs Carbon Fiber in the US. If you are outside the US, you may be able to find someone in your country who can provide the same or similar service. Please see the link below.

https://www.calfeedesign.com/howtosendrepair.htm


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

stubek said:


> here is one http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/107230881/_08_NEW_Cervelo_P3_Carbon.html
> I can't find the one I was originally looking at.
> 
> As for telling the difference between a knock-off and real thing, there is always the serial number, but by the time you have the bike in your hands, if you call Cervelo with the s/n and they say its a fake, not much you can do.


I thought carbon frames do not have serial numbers. Mine does not. Where are they located?

Also, on the Alibaba ad for the P3, says it is made (the frame) out of titanium. The seller is *Mr.* Angela something-or-other. Best of all, they are in Wasilla, Alaska, USA, where fraud laws are enforced (sorta). Perhaps this is Sarah Palin's new cottage industry. It all fits.

I sent Mr. Angela a message saying that "his" ad was being discussed on a prominent bicycle forum and his credibility was being questioned. I asked if he could send me any verifiable info on his track record, etc. I also pointed out that we are especially interested in the titanium frame. I'll post any response.


----------



## AvantDale

bikensteve901 said:


> You may want to consider getting the frame repaired. There is a very reputible builder who repairs Carbon Fiber in the US. If you are outside the US, you may be able to find someone in your country who can provide the same or similar service. Please see the link below.
> 
> http://www.calfeedesign.com/howtosendrepair.htm



The repair from Calfee will cost more than the frame.


----------



## stubek

Another TGTBT on alibaba
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/342833047/Scott_Plasma_Bike_low_price.html

New Scott Plasma 3 TT bike. Only available to consumer for a week or so and they are offering it for $380-1,200! I'll take a dozen since they sell at real places over $4k for the frameset


----------



## stevesbike

stubek said:


> Another TGTBT on alibaba
> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/342833047/Scott_Plasma_Bike_low_price.html
> 
> New Scott Plasma 3 TT bike. Only available to consumer for a week or so and they are offering it for $380-1,200! I'll take a dozen since they sell at real places over $4k for the frameset


the discount must be due to the fact that it has 20 inch wheels, front suspension, and 21 gears!


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

Reply from Jenny @ HongFu regarding price-matching against DengFu and others:

"hi,Clark
thanks for your email!
so please tell me the price you want to me.
then I will let you know if can still do the business with you.
thanks for you always support!. I also love you too.

best regards!
Jenny


----------



## yurl

stubek said:


> Another TGTBT on alibaba
> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/342833047/Scott_Plasma_Bike_low_price.html
> 
> New Scott Plasma 3 TT bike. Only available to consumer for a week or so and they are offering it for $380-1,200! I'll take a dozen since they sell at real places over $4k for the frameset


reeks of fish. might be fun to email them to see what rubbish claims they come up with


----------



## equinoxx

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Reply from Jenny @ HongFu regarding price-matching against DengFu and others:
> 
> "hi,Clark
> thanks for your email!
> so please tell me the price you want to me.
> then I will let you know if can still do the business with you.
> thanks for you always support!. I also love you too.
> 
> best regards!
> Jenny


Good luck with that. Jenny from HongFu wouldn't budge even a dollar on pricing with me. She basically told me to go purchase from a competitor if they had a lower price...so i did


----------



## rruff

tarzan13 said:


> Can you please let me know the seller's ebay ID?


Last I heard, DengFu was the only place selling the FM028.


----------



## philischen

ClarkinHawaii said:


> Reply from Jenny @ HongFu regarding price-matching against DengFu and others:
> 
> "hi,Clark
> thanks for your email!
> so please tell me the price you want to me.
> then I will let you know if can still do the business with you.
> thanks for you always support!. I also love you too.
> 
> best regards!
> Jenny




Hey Clark, never mind the frame... She LOVES you


----------



## timed

bikensteve901 said:


> You may want to consider getting the frame repaired. There is a very reputible builder who repairs Carbon Fiber in the US. If you are outside the US, you may be able to find someone in your country who can provide the same or similar service. Please see the link below.
> 
> http://www.calfeedesign.com/howtosendrepair.htm


yes i could repair it, but why do it when the seller has offer me a new frame? I have the knowledge and the necessary tools for the repair but i can't see why i should do it, that's the point. I prefer a new frame and that is what i'll get. I already got a tracking number and my new frame should arrive within a week.

I havn't heard anything but i assume the seller won't like to get this damaged frame back, so perhaps i will do something about this damage when i got my new frame. if so it would probably go as a spare frame if i would crash and be waiting for something new.

this whole chinese-frame Thing is just a way to keep the costs down at the moment and I'm planning on ending up with a De Rosa king 3 frame or something simular in the end.. but the student economy doesn't afford that together with the other bits I'd like to have on my ride.


----------



## JimmyD

Im going to take the plunge and order a FM028 in the next couple days just as soon as i can decide on a paint scheme. I have come up with a couple examples that i would love some feedback on...Is this thread the appropriate place to post the images?

Can anyone share their feedback on the ride quality/experiences of their fm028?


----------



## karlo

Ok, just received my invoice from Tony at DengFu and at the same time got an email from Mina but Tony gave me a bit of a lower price by a few dollars every dollar counts on my budget (Both Tony and Mina are from DengFu). He said if I pay today he ships today that he has everything in stock right now except the bottle cages that I wanted so he replaced them with the FD006...hey $8 CF bottle cages I won't complain.

Here is what I was quoted, looks good to me, what do you think?


----------



## vis8892

Just placed my order with DengFu (Tony) after a couple of weeks of exchanging emails with them, HongFu (Jenny) and Miracle-Trading (Jack) for the following parts:

FM015-ISP 58cm with fork
Headset
HB003 handlebars
Full carbon stem
carbon bottle cages x4

Miracle-Trading quoted prices right out of their catalog for a total of $655 including $122 for shipping.

HongFu quoted a total price of $657.

DengFu quoted a price of $607 plus $22 for paypal charge.

I asked Miracle-Trading and HongFu for a better price. Jack said no. Jenny came down to $600 plus 4% ($24) for paypal charge, but stem was carbon wrapped alloy.

I also asked DengFu for a better price, but they also said no. But, they had the better price overall.

From the emails, I was most impressed with Miracle-Trading. They had an organized catalog with all there parts and prices. Jack always sent an xls invoice when I asked for a price quote.

Both DengFu and HongFu never replied with specific part numbers when I asked if they had handlebars, stem or bottle cages. I ended up going to the various websites to get part numbers to ask if they had what I wanted.

Now, I have to wait to see what I actually get. Hopefully no damages, scratches, alignment problems.


----------



## BlackDoggystyle

It's funny some are guessing from which vendor the cracket frame came if there is only one seller on Ebay selling them AND is the same person you mail if you buy direct at DengFu 

btw...Not smart to sign off for the bike without checking out the frame. When I received the package the cardboard box was pretty damaged and squached so I opened the box with someone from the post office beside me to check the frame for damages. 

If there would be something wrong don't sign and it automaticly gets shipped back. All frames is shipped with EMS..and the guarantee/insurance on the shipping expires the moment you sign for the receipt...VERY IMPORTANT!

btw..I think he mentiones that on the item discription ... wait...found it....

A quote from the Bike discription and information:



> Attention:
> 
> Before you endorse the parcel,please do open the package,and check whether the items are dameged during the shipping process.If so,please do refuse to sign for the parcel,the courier wil send back the package to our company.
> 
> Otherwise,if you sign for the parcel,then find the items damaged,we are not responsible for that.


----------



## rruff

vis8892 said:


> From the emails, I was most impressed with Miracle-Trading. They had an organized catalog with all there parts and prices. Jack always sent an xls invoice when I asked for a price quote.


I was impressed with him as well... top choice, IMO.


----------



## karlo

I also have been impressed with both Miracle Trade and DengFu at very quick responses and quote requests but I'm saving $60 with DengFu and that buys my baby lots of diapers :thumbsup: 

I have been chatting with them through the Alibaba instant messenger and i have not had any communication problems with either one of them.


----------



## vis8892

karlo said:


> I also have been impressed with both Miracle Trade and DengFu at very quick responses and quote requests but I'm saving $60 with DengFu and that buys my baby lots of diapers :thumbsup:
> 
> I have been chatting with them through the Alibaba instant messenger and i have not had any communication problems with either one of them.


You also lucked out on $8 for bottle cages. Tony charge me $9 for the same ones. I asked that he throw in a set of 50mm carbon tubular wheels, but no dice. He did say he would add some head tube spacers.


----------



## timed

BlackDoggystyle said:


> It's funny some are guessing from which vendor the cracket frame came if there is only one seller on Ebay selling them AND is the same person you mail if you buy direct at DengFu
> 
> btw...Not smart to sign off for the bike without checking out the frame. When I received the package the cardboard box was pretty damaged and squached so I opened the box with someone from the post office beside me to check the frame for damages.
> 
> If there would be something wrong don't sign and it automaticly gets shipped back. All frames is shipped with EMS..and the guarantee/insurance on the shipping expires the moment you sign for the receipt...VERY IMPORTANT!
> 
> btw..I think he mentiones that on the item discription ... wait...found it....
> 
> A quote from the Bike discription and information:


i don't know how it is over seas but here in sweden you arn't allowed to open the box before you signing the package, on the other hand we are able to get back if the content of a package is damaged.

I have done it before with both EMS and other curriers without problems and got refunds..

ofcourse that's not much of a refund when the sender claims the packages to have a value of 70-100usd instead of the 4-5 hundred dollars + shipping that's the fact.

cheers.


----------



## bikensteve901

timed said:


> yes i could repair it, but why do it when the seller has offer me a new frame? I have the knowledge and the necessary tools for the repair but i can't see why i should do it, that's the point. I prefer a new frame and that is what i'll get. I already got a tracking number and my new frame should arrive within a week.
> 
> I havn't heard anything but i assume the seller won't like to get this damaged frame back, so perhaps i will do something about this damage when i got my new frame. if so it would probably go as a spare frame if i would crash and be waiting for something new.
> 
> this whole chinese-frame Thing is just a way to keep the costs down at the moment and I'm planning on ending up with a De Rosa king 3 frame or something simular in the end.. but the student economy doesn't afford that together with the other bits I'd like to have on my ride.


My suggestion was only if you were going to throw it away, would I consider getting it repaired. Looked at the Calfee price list and it would cost more than the price of the frame to repair with them, but as a back up - it might be worth the expense. That is assuming you get a replacement frame that is not damaged and they do not ask you to return the damaged frame. Good luck. Hope it all works out.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

equinoxx said:


> Good luck with that. Jenny from HongFu wouldn't budge even a dollar on pricing with me. She basically told me to go purchase from a competitor if they had a lower price...so i did


Hmmm, sounds like you failed to invite her to Hawaii to hula together on Waikiki Beach . . .


----------



## rruff

*My FM028 experience*

Now that I've finally got my frame built up and ridden it a few times, I thought I'd summarize my experience.

My first choice was a FM028, but due to the demise of my old frame I needed it in a hurry. Dengfu is the only place to get these and initially they (Mina) told me they did not have any in stock with the finish I wanted... so I then looked at obtaining a FM015. No dice there either... from any seller. I was about to order the Neo Exile clone from Miracle Trade, when Mina told me that they had located a FM028 with the specs I wanted for immediate delivery. Awesome! A few days later it arrived... but instead of the 3k gloss finish, the fork was painted white and had a red "B" on it. When I asked Mina about it, she(?) suggested that I refinish it myself. I was already quite annoyed because the whole reason for doing this deal was because I was in a hurry. I told her that it would cost me ~$100 to have this done, and would they pay for it? No reply. Then a few days later Mina said she wanted the fork back, and they would send me a new one. 

I shipped the fork back the next day, but they waited a few days to send the replacement. For two weeks I got notices that delivery was attempted on the fork I returned, before it was finally accepted. I don't know what was going on there, and Mina did not respond. The replacement fork is ok and when they finally accepted the returned fork, they refunded my shipping cost. So it's all good.

Some details concerning the frame and fork:

Total price with shipping and paypal fees for frame, fork, and headset... $502

Frame weight 54cm non-ISP, BSA, 3k gloss... 1048g which is plenty light IMO.
Fork weight... 410g uncut, 375g cut. 

Frame had a few light scratches upon delivery. The box was basically a cardboard wrapping with the frame and fork protected with foam sheets. Not very resistant to bad handling... easily crushed. I'm hoping there is no structural damage, but it is impossible to be sure. 

There are also some flaws in the finish that you can see in the photo... slight indentations in the sides of the downtube where the bottle bosses are located, and something funky going on with the weave in the fork. The top of the toptube also has "cloudy" looking spots under the clearcoat. I'll probably put a sticker over that to make it less noticeable. 

The headset crown race would not fit. I ground down the surface quite a bit with a dremel and still it was very tight... but I eventually got it on. 

The rear axle would initially not fit in the dropouts... but a few seconds with the dremel fixed that.

I've only ridden it a couple times, but I'm not sure there is an substantial difference between this frameset and the ZX3 it replaced. Maybe the rear end is a little more compliant, and the front less so... with the front being a little more solid and stiff handling as well. The geometries are similar enough that they feel about the same as far as handling is concerned, and the relationship of the contact points is set up identically.

If this bike holds up I'll be satisfied. I would however be willing to pay a couple hundred $ more to deal with a domestic company.


----------



## ClarkinHawaii

rruff said:


> Now that I've finally got my frame built up and ridden it a few times, I thought I'd summarize my experience.
> 
> My first choice was a FM028, but due to the demise of my old frame I needed it in a hurry. Dengfu is the only place to get these and initially they (Mina) told me they did not have any in stock with the finish I wanted... so I then looked at obtaining a FM015. No dice there either... from any seller. I was about to order the Neo Exile clone from Miracle Trade, when Mina told me that they had located a FM028 with the specs I wanted for immediate delivery. Awesome! A few days later it arrived... but instead of the 3k gloss finish, the fork was painted white and had a red "B" on it. When I asked Mina about it, she(?) suggested that I refinish it myself. I was already quite annoyed because the whole reason for doing this deal was because I was in a hurry. I told her that it would cost me ~$100 to have this done, and would they pay for it? No reply. Then a few days later Mina said she wanted the fork back, and they would send me a new one.
> 
> I shipped the fork back the next day, but they waited a few days to send the replacement. For two weeks I got notices that delivery was attempted on the fork I returned, before it was finally accepted. I don't know what was going on there, and Mina did not respond. The replacement fork is ok and when they finally accepted the returned fork, they refunded my shipping cost. So it's all good.
> 
> Some details concerning the frame and fork:
> 
> Total price with shipping and paypal fees for frame, fork, and headset... $502
> 
> Frame weight 54cm non-ISP, BSA, 3k gloss... 1048g which is plenty light IMO.
> Fork weight... 410g uncut, 375g cut.
> 
> Frame had a few light scratches upon delivery. The box was basically a cardboard wrapping with the frame and fork protected with foam sheets. Not very resistant to bad handling... easily crushed. I'm hoping there is no structural damage, but it is impossible to be sure.
> 
> There are also some flaws in the finish that you can see in the photo... slight indentations in the sides of the downtube where the bottle bosses are located, and something funky going on with the weave in the fork. The top of the toptube also has "cloudy" looking spots under the clearcoat. I'll probably put a sticker over that to make it less noticeable.
> 
> The headset crown race would not fit. I ground down the surface quite a bit with a dremel and still it was very tight... but I eventually got it on.
> 
> The rear axle would initially not fit in the dropouts... but a few seconds with the dremel fixed that.
> 
> I've only ridden it a couple times, but I'm not sure there is an substantial difference between this frameset and the ZX3 it replaced. Maybe the rear end is a little more compliant, and the front less so... with the front being a little more solid and stiff handling as well. The geometries are similar enough that they feel about the same as far as handling is concerned, and the relationship of the contact points is set up identically.
> 
> If this bike holds up I'll be satisfied. I would however be willing to pay a couple hundred $ more to deal with a domestic company.



NICE, Thanks!


----------



## mrwirey

*FM028 or FM015?*



rruff said:


> Now that I've finally got my frame built up and ridden it a few times, I thought I'd summarize my experience.
> 
> My first choice was a FM028, but due to the demise of my old frame I needed it in a hurry. Dengfu is the only place to get these and initially they (Mina) told me they did not have any in stock with the finish I wanted... so I then looked at obtaining a FM015. No dice there either... from any seller. I was about to order the Neo Exile clone from Miracle Trade, when Mina told me that they had located a FM028 with the specs I wanted for immediate delivery. Awesome! A few days later it arrived... but instead of the 3k gloss finish, the fork was painted white and had a red "B" on it. When I asked Mina about it, she(?) suggested that I refinish it myself. I was already quite annoyed because the whole reason for doing this deal was because I was in a hurry. I told her that it would cost me ~$100 to have this done, and would they pay for it? No reply. Then a few days later Mina said she wanted the fork back, and they would send me a new one.
> 
> I shipped the fork back the next day, but they waited a few days to send the replacement. For two weeks I got notices that delivery was attempted on the fork I returned, before it was finally accepted. I don't know what was going on there, and Mina did not respond. The replacement fork is ok and when they finally accepted the returned fork, they refunded my shipping cost. So it's all good.
> 
> Some details concerning the frame and fork:
> 
> Total price with shipping and paypal fees for frame, fork, and headset... $502
> 
> Frame weight 54cm non-ISP, BSA, 3k gloss... 1048g which is plenty light IMO.
> Fork weight... 410g uncut, 375g cut.
> 
> Frame had a few light scratches upon delivery. The box was basically a cardboard wrapping with the frame and fork protected with foam sheets. Not very resistant to bad handling... easily crushed. I'm hoping there is no structural damage, but it is impossible to be sure.
> 
> There are also some flaws in the finish that you can see in the photo... slight indentations in the sides of the downtube where the bottle bosses are located, and something funky going on with the weave in the fork. The top of the toptube also has "cloudy" looking spots under the clearcoat. I'll probably put a sticker over that to make it less noticeable.
> 
> The headset crown race would not fit. I ground down the surface quite a bit with a dremel and still it was very tight... but I eventually got it on.
> 
> The rear axle would initially not fit in the dropouts... but a few seconds with the dremel fixed that.
> 
> I've only ridden it a couple times, but I'm not sure there is an substantial difference between this frameset and the ZX3 it replaced. Maybe the rear end is a little more compliant, and the front less so... with the front being a little more solid and stiff handling as well. The geometries are similar enough that they feel about the same as far as handling is concerned, and the relationship of the contact points is set up identically.
> 
> If this bike holds up I'll be satisfied. I would however be willing to pay a couple hundred $ more to deal with a domestic company.


I still owe you all a detailed comparison between my FM015 (58cm) and the FM028 (56cm). They have a very similar stack and reach so fit between the two is not an issue. The quality control is about identical and ease/difficulty of build was also identical. Aesthetically, I prefer the look of the FM028; however, the FM015 is much stiffer in the front triangle and therefore more confidence inspiring. Both bikes corner and climb well (seated or standing), but the FM015 feels better sprinting out of the saddle. Neither bike flexes enough to upset the drivetrain or cause missed or ghost shifts. Bottom line: I will ride and enjoy both bikes, but I will race the FM015.
Very respectfully, Tim


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## timrowan

*A chinese carbon Ebay success story.*

Hello everyone. This is my first post here, and as most have already said, I would like to express my thanks for this useful thread and forum in helping and informing me whilst going through the excellent fun, but potentially very nerve racking process of buying a chinese carbon frame.
I did my research, read through the few throsand posts on these threads and felt like I was able to make an informed decision. I found the FM015 to be my frame of choice, light, stiff and beautiful! I was originally going to go for the FM028, but these were only available in BB30 and I didn't want the extra associated costs. Theres also something beautiful about those skinny seat stays on the FM015, and the slightly more understated head tube. I was getting excited!
I have trust in Ebay and Paypal and a feeling that if I recieved a dog of a frame, or there were mistakes made then I would have some trail and come back. Cost was also a factor, as I'm sure it is for most people chosing these frames. In the end I had read enough good reviews to opt for a seller who goes by the name of carbonzone on Ebay. So now to make contact. I asked about their frames as they were not named as FM015 or FM028, but RB003 and BR002. I checked to see if they had a RB002 (FM028) in stock with BSA, 3k, ISP, 56cm. I put the mail out with the hope of having a reply within a few days. I then checked ebay one last time before bed, and they had replied... within 10 minutes! 
Hi,sir
Nice to meet you.
At present,we just have the 56cm,ISP,3k,BB30 framesets in stock.
So do you want to get the BB30 framesets?

Thank you very much.
Look forward to hearing from you soon.
Best regards.
Echo

Wow I thought, great customer service, quick reactions, and polite. I then went to bed... Over the course of a few days I sent 7 or 8 emails being specific about stock, quality control, delivery, what if's e.t.c. and every time I had a response within 30 minutes. Echo was living up to their name! and they also sent a MSN and Skype address. I pulled the trigger and went for a 55cm RB003 (FM015) Intergrated seat post, 3k weave in standard British BB, along with a headset ($15 couldn't go wrong even if it was terrible... it wasn't) and asked for a spare rear mech hanger (free) $468 and $75 packing and postage. £330 total. I paid on an ebay listing, and had an email that the money was recieved and the parcel posted... an hour after I had paid. I got a tracking number and set about watching my frame cross the world at a remarkable speed. This really was astonishing, so I have pasted the tracking info below. I apologise if this post is getting a bit long, but I think I would have appreciated this in the research stage!
2010-08-27 17:50:00 Posting 
2010-08-27 17:55:00 LCYX Despatch from Sorting Center 
2010-08-27 22:24:12 SHENZHEN Arrival at Sorting Center 
2010-08-27 22:24:30 SHENZHEN Despatch from Sorting Center 
2010-08-30 17:43:00 UNITED KINGDOM COVENTRY PF Arrival at Sorting Center 
2010-08-30 17:43:00 UNITED KINGDOM COVENTRY PF Handed over to Customs 
2010-08-31 00:00:00 UNITED KINGDOM COVENTRY TRA Released from Customs 
2010-08-31 13:34:00 UNITED KINGDOM Delivery 
So posted on Tuesday evening and arrived to my door on Friday. The box was in good condition, and inside the frame was well packed. A quick check and all was there, nothing looked broken or scratched. I was very happy. I quickly got to work on ebay for the other parts (I thought I would have a few weeks of browsing for the best deals!) and I have pretty much built my dream bike. Sure some Sram Force parts could be Red, but I went for price to weight balance. And some parts I couldn't resist. I have some pictures of the Bike almost built, but since i have finished I haven't had time to take pictures as it has been getting ridden. I will post some soon. I wanted to concentrate on the ordering and delivery side of my experience. I will also write soon about my experience of the build (there are some slight anomolies, most have been pointed out in this thread) and also a review of the ride quality, handling e.t.c.
I hope this may be a help to some of you, I really can't give enough praise to carbonzone and the communication from Echo... much better service than I have recieved from any UK seller. If anyone has any questions please let me know.  
Tim


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## BlackDoggystyle

rruff said:


> If this bike holds up I'll be satisfied. I would however be willing to pay a couple hundred $ more to deal with a domestic company.


Here you go    

http://cgi.ebay.com/carbon-fiber-ro...60662461819?pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item3cb0b1857b


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## hummina shadeeba

*alibaba bikes*

there's tons of sellers selling BRANDED bikes as well, but none of them so far take a payment method I feel safe with. What do you think? They are gold members but doing western union or bank to bank is so sketchy and I expect a business to do otherwise.


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## stubek

hummina shadeeba said:


> there's tons of sellers selling BRANDED bikes as well, but none of them so far take a payment method I feel safe with. What do you think? They are gold members but doing western union or bank to bank is so sketchy and I expect a business to do otherwise.


I looked yesterday at every seller on Alibaba who was selling the Scott Plasma TT bike. Almost all were Gold sellers (1 year or less) and almost all were A&G certified. If I Googled the seller name and the word scam, I came across forum posts all over the place, including Alibaba's community section of people who had only received a box of pens instead of a computer or nothing at all. I am sure there are good sellers on Alibaba, but there are some frauds there too, so do your homework, check here for specific names, the Community forum there also has a few good threads about how to check people. 
Have several emails with the sellers, call them, etc.

Just remember, when they are selling brand new, top of the line branded frames with full components such as Dura Ace 7900, Di2, and SRAM Red, but only asking half price or even less, there is a good chance it is a scam.


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## stubek

The Chinese knock-offs are on Craigs list now
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/bik/1947153305.html
This bike is about 20 minutes from me, so I called the guy. He said he bought it from DengFu, had it painted up and offers a 1 year warranty on the frame. He said all the components are Token.
He was very quick to tell me where it came from and offered to order me any frame and any components.

Basically, it is a Cervelo P3 knock off FM018 for $1,198.


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## ColoRoadie

Not sure if I should be posting in this version or version 3 sticky...why do we have two versions open and active? Seems odd. Lots of pics of my new FM027 frame in version 3...and double posting it seems excessive.

In any event, my FM027 showed up today and I'm playing with the install...though only playing at present. I'll get serious over the weekend. I have a couple of questions though.

1. The headset bearings will not slide into the frame cups. Are they supposed to be that tight? How did you guys deal with that? Dremel the cup sides until the bearings drop in and out pretty easily? Take it to LBS for some special tool reaming? Surely they don't press in. The cups were installed at the factory, but it seems the bearings are slightly oversized. Perhaps some clean up sanding on the cups?

2. The cable for the front derailleur runs through a chase behind the guide. Won't the cable slice into the carbon where it makes the turn upwards? I assume I can slot the guide to line the cable up with the hole...but it seems like hole should be right at the end of the guide...or am I missing something?


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## ClarkinHawaii

ColoRoadie said:


> Not sure if I should be posting in this version or version 3 sticky...why do we have two versions open and active? Seems odd. Lots of pics of my new FM027 frame in version 3...and double posting it seems excessive.
> 
> In any event, my FM027 showed up today and I'm playing with the install...though only playing at present. I'll get serious over the weekend. I have a couple of questions though.
> 
> 1. The headset bearings will not slide into the frame cups. Are they supposed to be that tight? How did you guys deal with that? Dremel the cup sides until the bearings drop in and out pretty easily? Take it to LBS for some special tool reaming? Surely they don't press in. The cups were installed at the factory, but it seems the bearings are slightly oversized. Perhaps some clean up sanding on the cups?
> 
> 2. The cable for the front derailleur runs through a chase behind the guide. Won't the cable slice into the carbon where it makes the turn upwards? I assume I can slot the guide to line the cable up with the hole...but it seems like hole should be right at the end of the guide...or am I missing something?


I consider that totally unsatisfactory and be sure to watch the calendar--45 days to enter a Paypal claim from date of purchase. Do you really think there's anything you can do with that cable guide so far from the hole? Maybe they can provide a different cable guide that is especially designed for use with that frame, but otherwise it is a disaster which will never work properly. Not even mentioning the deal with the headset. I would be pissed.


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## mrwirey

ColoRoadie said:


> 2. The cable for the front derailleur runs through a chase behind the guide. Won't the cable slice into the carbon where it makes the turn upwards? I assume I can slot the guide to line the cable up with the hole...but it seems like hole should be right at the end of the guide...or am I missing something?


:idea: Just trying to help a brother out:
1. Elongate the bolt hole in the plastic cable guide so that you can slide the cable guide over until it lines up with the guide hole in the frame.
2. Use the teflon lining from an extra or old piece of derailleur cable (about three inches ought to do) and slide that into the guide hole as far as it will go then bend it over until it butts up against the newly aligned plastic cable guide. Cut the excess teflon for a snug fit and so no gaps exist. Insert front derailleur cable.
3. Put your bike together and ride. The cable will move through the teflon, through the guide hole, and you will never notice the difference. I have a similar gap on my FM028 and this works just fine for me. Of course this only works if you are using Campagnolo kit because we all know that Campagnolo has magical properties...like unicorns. 
4. You do realize that I am kidding about Campagnolo and that it isn't really magic, right? Just thought I'd check...
Hooah and very respectfully, Tim


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## ColoRoadie

mrwirey said:


> :idea: Just trying to help a brother out:
> 1. Elongate the bolt hole in the plastic cable guide so that you can slide the cable guide over until it lines up with the guide hole in the frame.
> 2. Use the teflon lining from an extra or old piece of derailleur cable (about three inches ought to do) and slide that into the guide hole as far as it will go then bend it over until it butts up against the newly aligned plastic cable guide. Cut the excess teflon for a snug fit and so no gaps exist. Insert front derailleur cable.
> 3. Put your bike together and ride. The cable will move through the teflon, through the guide hole, and you will never notice the difference. I have a similar gap on my FM028 and this works just fine for me. Of course this only works if you are using Campagnolo kit because we all know that Campagnolo has magical properties...like unicorns.
> 4. You do realize that I am kidding about Campagnolo and that it isn't really magic, right? Just thought I'd check...
> Hooah and very respectfully, Tim



Could I convince you to post a picture of the teflon fix? I'm half tempted to move the guide back to the hole and glue it in place, or go with a different guide and trim to fit...something like this one from Cannondale.










And while I understand that your Campy reference was in jest....I'm pretty sure you hit the nail on the head anyway.  

Semper Fi


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## ColoRoadie

Mrwirey, I think I figured out what you were getting at.










Still going to swing by Vecchios tomorrow to see if they have one of these campy guides 










Looks like...magic. Thanks for the help. My next project....figure out why the bearings wont go into the headset cups.


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## mrwirey

*There's no group like Campy.*



ColoRoadie said:


> Mrwirey, I think I figured out what you were getting at.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still going to swing by Vecchios tomorrow to see if they have one of these campy guides
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like...magic. Thanks for the help. My next project....figure out why the bearings wont go into the headset cups.


:thumbsup: Yes. Your top picture is exactly what I was getting to. That Campy cable guide looks like an even better (re: that much less ghetto) solution if it doesn't require the 'teflon fix', but I think you'll find that my suggestion and your interpretation thereof will do just fine if the Campy cable guide doesn't pan out. Now you just have to click your heals and repeat after me, "There's no group like Campy. There's no group like Campy. There's no group like Campy." It's all good.:thumbsup: .


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## mrwirey

*Things headset...*



ColoRoadie said:


> 1. The headset bearings will not slide into the frame cups. Are they supposed to be that tight? How did you guys deal with that? Dremel the cup sides until the bearings drop in and out pretty easily? Take it to LBS for some special tool reaming? Surely they don't press in. The cups were installed at the factory, but it seems the bearings are slightly oversized. Perhaps some clean up sanding on the cups?
> [/IMG]


ColoRoadie,
1. Let's start at the bottom and work our way up. 
2. You can move any excess materiel from the races using very fine sandpaper and going slow. I also used a small scraper for some hard teardrop-sized bits of what appeared to be resin. The key to success is going slow to ensure that you do not remove any materiel from the bearing race itself. The bearings are designed to fit snug, 
3. The bottom headset bearing has the external taper facing upward so that it mates with the taper on the headset race. You can ligtly tap The bearing in by using a flat piece of wood against the bottom of the bearing surface and a rubber mallet against the piece of wood until it seats. The bearing may not sit fully flush against the head tube, but do not try to force the bearing further once the tapered edges of the bearing and the race touch. 'Light' and 'tapping' are key and if you think you are going to have to 'bang' it in; it is still too tight. Just take your time.
4. Top headset bearing. Outside taper faces downward into the bearing race in the head tube. Keep in mind that the top headset bearing is NOT going to sit flush with the top of the head tube when properly installed. The top headset bearing is designed to protrude even when fully seated. It is designed this way so that it will be covered by the dust cap. This may look a little funky when you look at it without the dust cap in place and you may want to believe that it is not fully seated, but it will all make sense when all the parts are installed.
Hope this helps. Very respectfully, Tim


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## zender

stubek said:


> The Chinese knock-offs are on Craigs list now
> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/bik/1947153305.html
> This bike is about 20 minutes from me, so I called the guy. He said he bought it from DengFu, had it painted up and offers a 1 year warranty on the frame. He said all the components are Token.
> He was very quick to tell me where it came from and offered to order me any frame and any components.
> 
> Basically, it is a Cervelo P3 knock off FM018 for $1,198.


You going to check this out? Be curious how the rear braking is on this setup assuming he went with the Tektro.


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## stevesbike

zender said:


> You going to check this out? Be curious how the rear braking is on this setup assuming he went with the Tektro.


The tektro is OK if you change the brake pads - swisstop greens make a big difference. I ran a fairly long section of brake housing from the exit hole in the down tube as well - left about an inch from the brake, which seemed to help as well with the cable angle. You definitely need a third hand to help get the brake cable tightened so the pads are quite close to the rim as the brake is mushy. I'm using vision brake levers, which feel a bit like squeezing a knife blade and expect braking would be improved with a beefier brake lever like the cane creek but my time trials are on flat, non-technical courses with little braking.


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## campLo

ColoRoadie said:


> Not sure if I should be posting in this version or version 3 sticky...why do we have two versions open and active? Seems odd. Lots of pics of my new FM027 frame in version 3...and double posting it seems excessive.
> 
> In any event, my FM027 showed up today and I'm playing with the install...though only playing at present. I'll get serious over the weekend. I have a couple of questions though.
> 
> 1. The headset bearings will not slide into the frame cups. Are they supposed to be that tight? How did you guys deal with that? Dremel the cup sides until the bearings drop in and out pretty easily? Take it to LBS for some special tool reaming? Surely they don't press in. The cups were installed at the factory, but it seems the bearings are slightly oversized. Perhaps some clean up sanding on the cups?
> 
> 2. The cable for the front derailleur runs through a chase behind the guide. Won't the cable slice into the carbon where it makes the turn upwards? I assume I can slot the guide to line the cable up with the hole...but it seems like hole should be right at the end of the guide...or am I missing something?
> 
> https://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i261/billshook/IMG_1071.jpg[][/QUOTE]
> 
> I cant remember if my frame came the same way or not. I just threw everything on and started riding hahah. I guess I have to check it out when I get home :mad2:


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## stubek

zender said:


> You going to check this out? Be curious how the rear braking is on this setup assuming he went with the Tektro.


yes, Thursday going to go ride it after work. Se how these "cheap" components feel and the knock off frame feels


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## Porter666

Been lurking on this thread for a while and just bought a FM028 ISP frame from carbonzone on ebay. Frame came four days later, it was a bit rough around the edges but good for the price.
Want to try and build this bike up as light as I can(afford). Just wondering has anyone changed the seat mast stubby? Was going to swap it for a Tune cappy 34.9 but when I measured the seat mast the diameter was 36mm. Seems an odd size, anyway how much wiggle room would there be with the Tune? Could I make it fit or should I go for the larger size (38.2).


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## Coolhand

*Moderators Note*

We have opened Thread version 3.0. Closing this one but leaving it stuck for reading and research purposes. :thumbsup:


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