# Alloy or Carbon? Help a beginner :)



## gocard (Jul 12, 2011)

Hi everyone! I'm looking into purchasing my first road bike and I've narrowed it down to a few that I really like for different reasons:
1. Felt Z85 (some 105 parts)
2. Cannondale Synapse Alloy 5 105
3. Cannondale Synapse Carbon 6 Apex WSD
4. Specialized Dolce Apex Compact
5. Specialized Ruby Elite (which was unfortunately my favorite and way out of my price range)

As you can see, there is quite a range of prices. Overall, I prefer the slightly more upright position, which is why I am considering these. I already know that I want either 105s or Apex and at this time I find them both equally easy to handle.

My main question here is: is carbon really worth it? Especially for someone buying her first road bike. Granted I don't know how much I'll love it yet, but I think it will be great outdoor exercise and it looks like an awesome sport to pick up!

Ideally I do not want to go more than $1500 because I find it to be a very big investment on something I'm not 100% sure about yet. However, I'm also the type that doesn't tend to continue upgrading to something better and better. Once I find something I like, I usually stick to it for a really long time. 

So, is it worth it for a beginner to purchase a carbon or would you suggest just sticking to alloy? Alloy would make my wallet much happier, but the carbons seem like something that I can stick to and not get that itch to upgrade even more. I can't really tell a difference between the alloy and the carbon when I test them out. 

Sorry this was so long - if you made it through this post, thanks for reading! I'll try to make it shorter next time.


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## AwfulQuiet (Mar 21, 2004)

Go for alu, and get some nice cycling kit (bib shorts, jersey, helmet, gloves, sunglasses etc).


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

gocard said:


> ... is carbon really worth it? Especially for someone buying her first road bike. Granted I don't know how much I'll love it ye, but I think it will be great outdoor exercise and it looks like an awesome sport to pick ...


Depends how deep is yr wallet and whether if u splash out on a carbon bike and then u do not like it, riding that is, is it ok to just leave it in the garage?

But whatever you decide, get a fitting, if unsure about researching n going about to get the right size. U did mentioned upright position ... Tryout a few bikes fr different shops, and different types as well. Maybe a touring bike will be better for u.


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## MPov (Oct 22, 2010)

I switched from aluminum to carbon just a couple of weeks ago, and the improvement in ride is significant. I'm like you, though. I had that aluminum bike (Trek 1200) for 25 years!

Having said that, unless the money is not an issue I would not spend more for the carbon right now. You can get a nice bike in your price range. Buy one and see how you like cycling. You can always upgrade later, or decide that you are happy with what you've got and don't need to.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

gocard said:


> Hi everyone! I'm looking into purchasing my first road bike and I've narrowed it down to a few that I really like for different reasons:
> 1. Felt Z85 (some 105 parts)
> 2. Cannondale Synapse Alloy 5 105
> 3. Cannondale Synapse Carbon 6 Apex WSD
> ...


Beyond my standard _shop for shops along with shopping for bikes_ mantra, my general advice to noobs looking for their first bike is to stay at the lower end of their price range, for a number of reasons. 

First, being new to cycling, you don't really know how this will go. But even if you stay involved, as you grow with the sport you'll learn more about what you like (and don't) about your bike, cycling (the type of rides you do) and what your next bike might be. This could take years to unfold, but if you stay with cycling, it will. 

That said, the other facets (mainly components) pale in comparison to fit, so if you haven't already done so, after being sized/ fitted, do some back to back test rides - out on the roads. With the memory fresh in your mind, this should give you some idea of the subtle differences between the fit of the bikes having differing geo (ex: Synapse versus Dolce or Felt Z versus Ruby). 

Also have the LBS set tire pressures based on your weight and tire size. This will give you a better idea of the differences in how the bikes will ride, since handling is based more on differences in geometry.

Re: components, you stated that you were considering either SRAM's Apex or Shimano's 105, but IMO a fairer comparison would be Apex/ Tiagra or Rival/ 105, so I suggest trying out a 10 speed Tiagra equipped bike before deciding. I think you'll be hard pressed to see a difference between it and 105.

Last, but not least, your bold statement really answers the CF versus alloy question.


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## gocard (Jul 12, 2011)

Thanks everyone for your advice! It sounds like everyone suggests trying out road biking with an alloy frame to see how I like it - makes perfect sense. The reason I'm even considering a carbon frame is because I really liked everything about the carbon synapse and the rubys...except the price - hence my quandary.

The LBS really took the time to fit me to a bike so that I could test them comfortably, so I feel I got a pretty good assessment of all the bikes listed above.

Technically I can afford a basic carbon bike and not have the desire to upgrade for a long time. I've been riding a 15-year old Specialized Hardrock Sport and don't have a real baseline for how a road bike should feel, except that it's way faster than my current bike! What I'm really curious about is the difference between alloy and carbon. Do carbon frames hold up better in the long run or does it not matter? Are they really more comfortable on long rides? 

I haven't been test riding miles and miles to feel the difference. I rode over some rougher patches on both types of frames to compare, and I *guess* the carbon frame feels more muted. My plans with riding are to sign up for charity rides and maybe centuries. Thanks for your help!


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## Defy (Apr 22, 2012)

If you get an aluminum frame, you make not like cycling. But if you get a nice carbon frame where after a 20 mile ride you are as fresh as a daisy, it may be more enjoyable 

Just saying...


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## heybrady (Jul 3, 2011)

Go with aluminum and spend some coin on nice shorts, gloves, pedals, etc. and also look at putting 25 or even 28 tires on it. That will mute the ride quite a bit and make it more comfortable in long rides.


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## mmlee (Apr 15, 2012)

I was in similar circumstance and instead of buying new I bought a good used alum with nice upgraded ultegra groupset with mavic ksyrium elite wheels (bought Giant OCR with the before mentioned items for $600) and spent 3-400 on accessories (bibs, helmet, shoes, etc...). 

I'm brand new to the sport and wasn't sure if I would stick with it and wanted something that I could learn (maint & build) and tinker with without worrying about destroying a relatively expensive bike. Later on I can keep the bike as a back up, wet weather ride, buy carbon frame, sell (for close to what I paid for, in fact if sell off the pieces i can easily get back what I paid for), etc...... it's nice having a beater..... especially when I had my first fall going clipless. :blush2:

But after 4 months I'm still pedaling away....


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

gocard said:


> What I'm really curious about is the difference between alloy and carbon. Do carbon frames hold up better in the long run or does it not matter? Are they really more comfortable on long rides?
> 
> I haven't been test riding miles and miles to feel the difference. I rode over some rougher patches on both types of frames to compare, and I *guess* the carbon frame feels more muted. My plans with riding are to sign up for charity rides and maybe centuries. Thanks for your help!


Looking at your question in a strictly frame materials sense (meaning, the differences in the materials characteristics) in normal use, CF will outlast aluminum simply because it has no fatigue limit. It also has superior STW ratios, is generally lighter and (moving from factual to subjective) has superior vibration damping properties. 

In real world riding conditions, the differences are less dramatic and as has been stated, going with the largest tire size and tailoring PSI's to rider weight, tire size and road conditions will go a long way in equalizing the ride qualities of aluminum framed bikes.

Also, if you notice, alu bikes in your price range are OE'd with CF forks or alu steerers/ CF fork legs, which will serve to quell the road vibrations most noticeable to most riders - the buzz that comes up through the front end to the riders hands/ arms.

All that said, if you can afford a full CF frameset and plan on doing some longer rides, I don't think you'll be sorry going with it, but I don't see it being necessary for you to stay with (or even enjoy) cycling.


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## DMLew (Jul 28, 2012)

For you, I recommend start with a nice Aluminum frame with dependable components. After a few months or a year you can decide if you want to take the sport serious. Then upgrade to a Carbon.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

I'm pretty much in agreement with the aluminum vote here. At $1500 you're looking at low end carbon, with crap wheels/saddle/tires and Tiagra components (not that Tiagra is crap, but you specified Apex or 105). 

And I also don't agree with the poster who said you'll hate the ride of aluminum. All of the models you mentioned have a carbon fork. 25 mm tires run at a lower psi will also smooth things out. 

And you will discover the rule of n + 1 if you stick with it. Even if you're not the type to upgrade if you're happy with what you have. It's almost inevitable. :wink:


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## gocard (Jul 12, 2011)

Thanks everyone, you've been super helpful! Based on your comments and my test rides, I am leaning towards a good aluminum bike, either the Z85 or the Synapse 5. I came across a what I think is a good deal for a 2012 carbon synapse 6 for 1500 + 10% off if my LBS will price match...but the money I can save on a less expensive bike will be put to good use for other gear!


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## seacoaster (May 9, 2010)

As previously mentioned, fit is most important. This may involve things like swapping out handlebars, stems, etc., so buying from a good LBS is also important.

I'm riding a well-fitted aluminum Synapse 5 with 25 mm tires. It's a very comfy ride, and after long rides I don't feel beat up by the bike at all. No desire to switch to carbon, which I test rode at the time of purchase.


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## gocard (Jul 12, 2011)

Thanks seacoaster. I agree about the fit, especially on longer/frequent rides. The guys at the LBS are very knowledgeable about fit and if I buy from them they wil do a complete fitting for my bike. I will go with the Synapse 5 alloy unless I am able to get the Synapse 6 apex for a nearly the same price. That deal seems too good to pass up but if not, I am perfectly happy with my test rides on the Synapse 5. It handles very well and I am very comfortable on it. Thanks everyone!


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## Peter_Klim (Oct 7, 2007)

Glad you decided to go for the aluminum. For the same price, you get better parts and if later you want to get a nicer frame, then you'll know you have parts to match it.

I did the same thing 4 years ago. Spent $1500 on an aluminum framed bike with Dura Ace components, and after finally deciding to upgrade the frame, last month got a 50% off deal on a left over carbon fiber frameset. There's absolutely nothing wrong with an aluminum frame. 

Keep us posted with what you get! Goood luck!


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## AythanNyah09 (Jul 14, 2012)

If you are not in an immediate hurry... you can pick up a low/mid level CF frame in the next month or two via close outs. A lot of LBS is clearing out the 2012 inventory... whether it be Alu or CF. I was in your situation just a few weeks back and I found a close out deal that was too good to pass up. I too am not a viable candidate to upgrade much... but once I picked up the close out... im glad i stretched my budget and got a GREAT deal on a close out.

Just pick a frame that you like and go to their website... look at all of the retailers and hit the websites. Sometimes they have the close outs there or just call all of them! A lot of times, you may see a close out far away and ask the LBS to match the deal! With the perks of free fit and percentage off of accessories.


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## fltekdiver (Aug 1, 2012)

I just picked up a Trek 2.3 closeout for $1,500, by the time I was done out the door, It was $2K with the clipless pedals, shoes, shorts etc, no cpmputer yet

They had a 3.1 their for an extra $100 bucks, but the tires were worse, drivetrain etc

So I said CF for $100 more, or the better drivetrain and componets on the 2.3, So i went with the trek 2.3

They had a closeout on a Madon 4.5 for $1,900.00, that had me really tempting. But I knew with shoes etc I was over $2,500.00 , the price just kept going up

So I'm happy alittle under $2K, and I just ride my first ride tonight with my new Trek 2.3 , and love the color, its sexy!


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## memphis (Aug 5, 2012)

My LBS is closing out 2012 Scott CR-1 carbon bikes right now. 

The CR-1 Comp (base model) lists for $1709, but he's selling it for $1409 (Tiagra, Alex). 

I just ordered a Team model (105, Mavic). List is $2259 and he sold it for $1709 ($550 off). 

I have yet to read a bad review on the CR-1.


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## Papuga (Aug 5, 2012)

*Is a dent in the top tube a problem?*

Hi,
I am new to th is forum. I am looking at purchasing a new Cannondale Synapse 5, but th e top tube has a dent in the middle, about 1/2 in in diam, like something dropped on it. The is no evidence of cracking and the paint is not chipped. 
Does this affect the structural integrity of the bike?
The dealer says he will make me a deal. Any recommendations on how much of a deal wl be appropriate?
Thanks,
Papuga


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Papuga said:


> Hi,
> I am new to th is forum. I am looking at purchasing a new Cannondale Synapse 5, but th e top tube has a dent in the middle, about 1/2 in in diam, like something dropped on it. The is no evidence of cracking and the paint is not chipped.
> Does this affect the structural integrity of the bike?
> The dealer says he will make me a deal. Any recommendations on how much of a deal wl be appropriate?
> ...


If it's a shallow dent with no signs of a crease, odds are it would be fine for the life of the bike. 

Just how much off the price is enough is more up to you than anyone. Maybe think in opposite terms... how much _more_ is the same bike worth to you without the dent.


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## Papuga (Aug 5, 2012)

PJ,
Thanks for the response. The dent is not deep and the ride is really nice. I like the 105 shifters over the Sora. At 61 cm it is also a good fit for me. 
My current bike is a 79 Centurion. It has served me well over the years, but I think it's time for a upgrade.
Papuga


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Papuga said:


> PJ,
> Thanks for the response. The dent is not deep and the ride is really nice. I like the 105 shifters over the Sora. At 61 cm it is also a good fit for me.
> *My current bike is a 79 Centurion*. It has served me well over the years, but I think it's time for a upgrade.
> Papuga


Your bike is 'only' 33 years old. For a steel frame, that's just gettin' broken in.... :wink5:

Post pics when you get your new C'dale.


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## Ridingblind (Aug 8, 2012)

memphis said:


> My LBS is closing out 2012 Scott CR-1 carbon bikes right now.
> 
> The CR-1 Comp (base model) lists for $1709, but he's selling it for $1409 (Tiagra, Alex).
> 
> ...



I have to +1 this, I just got the same bike (Scott CR1 Team), I couldn't be happier, after a long hiatus from biking i'm getting back into it (Tri's) .. I chose something that's more comfortable and light, giving me no reason not to get my butt outside and moving (although the 109 deg heat is a good reason to hit the gym instead)

Less than 100 miles on it so far, but loving every mile of it (after replacing the torture device known as a saddle) 

1700 and change from my LBS, included custom fitting and even ordering a bike that they didn't have stocked (I ride a 61cm) .. replaced the Stock White Bar Tape with Grey to make it a little unique


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## occamsrazor32 (Aug 3, 2012)

Carbon and buy a used bike or build one


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## memphis (Aug 5, 2012)

Ridingblind said:


> I have to +1 this, I just got the same bike (Scott CR1 Team), I couldn't be happier, after a long hiatus from biking i'm getting back into it (Tri's) .. I chose something that's more comfortable and light, giving me no reason not to get my butt outside and moving (although the 109 deg heat is a good reason to hit the gym instead)
> 
> Less than 100 miles on it so far, but loving every mile of it (after replacing the torture device known as a saddle)
> 
> 1700 and change from my LBS, included custom fitting and even ordering a bike that they didn't have stocked (I ride a 61cm) .. replaced the Stock White Bar Tape with Grey to make it a little unique


Cool, man! Congratulations on getting back into cycling. 

Great to hear you're liking the Scott. I didn't know much about the brand until recently, except for some of their motocross goggles I own. A couple of friends did buy Scott mountain bikes last year, however, and like them. 

Since you got the 61, I'm assuming you're pretty tall. I'm 6'2" and I got the 58 (my LBS also measured me). He actually said if he went by my leg measurements only, I'd ride a 61, but my height is mostly my legs! So, I'll probably have to run the seat a little high. 

Anyway, I pick mine up this afternoon and can't wait to go ride it for a few hours!

Say, are you running clipless? I'm trying to decide what to get, as all I have right now are some MTB pedals and shoes. (the pedals I have aren't really ideal for road bike riding - they're Eggbeaters.)


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## Ruslan124 (Jul 30, 2012)

I will comment from a different angle. It appears that your dilemma is you can afford a Carbon bike but are unsure if you should spend that amount of money in case you do not stick with Cycling. Regardless CF or Alloy, if you do not stick with it, you will try and sell what bike you bought and restrict your losses. I am not sure there will be a material difference in your losses between both types. The only difference is the initial outlay.

So now I have made that point, I can say go Carbon. There is just something damned sexy about a Carbon bike. Putting aside other potential benefits, e.g., is it lighter, is it stronger, is it more comfortable, think about making that first century and all the time looking around and wishing you had bought Carbon. 

If you can afford it, do it. You know you want to


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