# did a couple of centuries this year, have one glaring question to ask



## theStig

So I've been riding for about 5 years, average about 200-300 miles a month, nothing major. Usual rides are between 40-60 miles, not a big deal. I'm not _terribly_ out of shape (6'0", 200lbs) 

So i decide to sign up for a couple of centuries this year and train for a bit beforehand. On the day of the event, I'm doing pretty good up to mile 70 or so, and then it becomes a death march. I drink about a bottle (full of cytomax or water) every hour to 90 minutes. I eat every 20 minutes. Average about 14-15mph on the flats in an effort to conserve my strength, but by mile 70, nothing helps much so I slog on and eventually finish in about 6.5-7hours. 

Now, it is not my intention to be offensive or rude, but it surprises me to see middle aged severely overweight women (like 250+ lbs) on big comfy touring bikes start passing me around mile 80 or 90. It's not they were stocky or "big boned". They were morbidly obese, and pedalling on like nothing is phasing them while I'm struggling on my flash carbon race bike, legs going numb? How is this possible?


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## Dajianshan

They are on mile 1. 

Don't play chase the rabbit on a long ride. Keep your pace. Sure it sucks that kid on Mtb. can out race you for a block before he gets tired and drops off. But he didn't just ride 90 miles.


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## theStig

No, I'm talking about these women doing the same exact century as I am and passing me towards the end. No joke.




Dajianshan said:


> They are on mile 1.
> 
> Don't play chase the rabbit on a long ride. Keep your pace. Sure it sucks that kid on Mtb. can out race you for a block before he gets tired and drops off. But he didn't just ride 90 miles.


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## runnerstreet

A lot of century rides offer multiple length courses, and they usually have the same route for the beginning and the end of the 100 mile course.
_For example:_ In this years LIVESTRONG Challenge Philly 2011, you can choose from a multi-distance bike ride including 10-, 20-, 45-, 70- or 100-mile options into the Pennsylvania countryside. 
The farther you go the earlier you start. So when you’ve completed 70-80 miles other people are just starting the 20 mile course.


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## jimmythekidd

Well maybe they ride more than you. 200-300 miles a month isn't very much at all, I bet if you got out a bit more that would help you out quite a bit.


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## steel515

(I have same problem). It could be pacing. Someone mentioned riding slower in beginning&passing others in the end. Its impossible to have same 50 mile pace as 100 mile especially if we're untrained. We have to train 70-100 miles I think . Don't worry if obese people pass you. They might have more centuries under their belt.


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## bradXism

The above advise is all good. As I got older I found myself competing with the MPH. I am a big advocate of Heart rate monitors. You are probably a competitive sort and may not know it but riding with a group that is a little too fast. Riding a few longer rides will help you zone in on what your target is. 
I informally coach a wide range of athletes, cycling and running. There is a type of person out there I refer to as the 'Chugger'. Many woman fall into this catagory and almost always start with running. They have sturdy slightly thinker frames with a little bit of jiggle in places that make them look out of shape. I used to get irritated that they couldn't go much faster than their distance pace on track workouts but their 1/2 marathon and marathon paces were very close. Most of these types could drag a truck tire across Kansas On long club rides where it is my turn to sag, it is obvious what is happening. The various packs at stay together and have a few (sometime the whole group) riding above their targets while these 2 women of a previous description, talking and looking at the scenery. The second half of the rides they start catching up to the those who fell off the groups.
Everyone has someone who has caught up to them and seems they shouldn't. There is no shame in this. I often have to grab the wheel or just get passed. by this scruffy 20 something kid that we refer to as 'Tie'. He looks like he is homeless, wears a tie-dye shirt and always smells like bong water. He is on a 30 year old univega, has a large womans shoulder bag load with trail mix and an I-pod stuck in his ears. He never shuts up or is badly singing to his music. At the end of the rides he crams the bag with free food, mooches beer and vanishes. Never seen him anywhere else.


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## Oxtox

wouldn't worry about what other riders are doing, focus on what you're doing/not doing.

firstly...so, you have a 'flash carbon race bike'...uhhh, here's some news, it ain't about the bike. 

you say you're going to 'train a bit', but you're only riding 50 miles/week...that's not exactly a huge base. do you do any other type of exercise...run, swim, weights...?

maybe it's your diet, what are you eating on and off the bike? if it's heavy on junk food, perhaps that's a problem. gotta fuel the motor properly if you want peak performance.

cadence? are you grinding or spinnning...?

you're 6'/200 lbs, I'm 6'/155 lbs...I can't imagine carrying another 45 lbs, but we may have drastically different body types...

examine your diet, ride more, and see if things improve.


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## PdxMark

The stark change in the feel of the ride for you, and the speed you rode after mile 70, sounds exactly like a bonk. The eating and drinking you did needs to cover the calories you're burning... maybe 1500 or so calories per 50 miles. Eating every 20 minutes over 100 miles is a ton of food, unless you only started eating a bit after 70 miles, or "eating" means just a small bite of something. How much food did you eat when before and during the ride? How big were those cytomax bottles? Were they the whole ride or started later in the ride? Let's figure out how many calories you took in from breakfast on that day.

An alternative possibility is anaerobic exhaustion. If despite your average speed you were hammering up short steep hills along the way, going into hard anaerobic effort each time, you caould have reached anaerobic exhaustion along the way. That can feel about the same as a bonk... Were there any/many hard anaerobic efforts along the way?


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## runnerstreet

Oxtox said:


> you're 6'/200 lbs, I'm 6'/155 lbs...I can't imagine carrying another 45 lbs, but we may have drastically different body types...


CORRECT...!
But, I'm 6'/185, not quite 2 bills, and can spit out a century with ease. I also ride with a couple of cats slightly heavier within the 200 range who can ride the same, and it all comes down to mileage per week. The dudes that train on the bike longer can ride longer and harder.

Just get out and ride more


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## robwh9

One's weight becomes less important the flatter the course because you don't have gravity acting against you.


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## velocanman

You might have been over-trained or under-hydrated on that ride. 

I tend to need more fluids than what you consumed, or at least supplement with Endurolytes to prevent cramping.


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## dlhillius

Definitely train more but I'd side with nutrition as well.....

Up until last weekend, the most I'd ever ridden was about 84 miles. I just did 204 and what I found was that the first 100 were seriously easy. I'd eaten my typical Barilla Plus pasta with a good sauce the night before and 3 eggs on English muffins plus half a banana and jam on 1/2 a muffin for breakfast. I drank Perpeteum throughout and GU shots about 1 an hour plus water. What I noticed was that the longer the ride went, especially past about 130ish, I was consuming more and more Perpeteum and GU shots to keep the same energy level. 

My best guess was that I'd exhausted my long term fuel supplies by then and was 100% dependent on the supplements.

Yes, train more....It's only going to help but really pay attention to your own individual nutritional needs. I'm still learning what my body wants and doesn't. You will too.

BTW....I'm 6ft2 at 195lbs and I see little guys struggling and the BIG folks doing well too. I've found I simply can't judge someones ability by sight in cycling. Total crapshoot.


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## antonlove

There could be several factors involved. When I first started cycling, I got dropped by women twice my age and twice my weight. As a former track and field sprinter, I was embarrassed. I finally rode with a group of men who are 15-25 years older than me. They began to explain to me about cycling. Perhaps you need some experienced cyclists to train with and who will give you valuable information.

1. I was riding a 36 lb. bike then. (This doesn't appear to be your problem.)
2. I was riding up to 40 miles, occasionally. (This may be your achilles heel.)
3. Although you might believe those women were riding the same distance as you, you never know.
4. You have to learn to ride your pace, not the pace of others. 
5. I didn't understand the needs of an endurance athlete. Nutrition and pacing are extremely important. 

Your problem may be explained by any one or number of these reasons. I got a lot faster when I bought my new Trek Madone which is less than half the weight of my old bike. Also, I ride 200-300 miles per week, which I would estimate was my monthly average before. 

I would advise you to train with a group. Not only is it fun, but experienced cyclists will teach you what you need to know to get better. Set some realistic goals and you'll be fine.


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## vontress

I would agree with others advice that it's base mileage. Some people just ride a lot and it will show in the higher mileage. I ride 200 miles per week and I have a lot of buddies that I struggle to keep up with until we go long distance. Then they fall apart. As you do more centuries, you'll perform better. 

Last weekend, I did the death ride. Toward the end, I was whipped and got on the wheel of a gal like you described. I couldn't get it out of my head that we were at the same pace. I did notice that she appeared to be one of the better riders I had got on the wheel of but just couldn't let it go that big Beem means non-rider. After finishing the 5th pass, I saw her and we talked. She had been riding for many years and did many double centuries. Who knew....


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## gpcyclist25

This does raise some interesting questions for me.

I'm a decent cyclist, signed up for my first group events ever, doing 3 or 4 between now and the end of September. I ride between 130-150 miles per week, usually at 17.5 mph average, moving. I'm 41, 5'7", about 145 lbs with 9-10% bodyfat, hopefully dropping to 7-8% by the end of the season. Pretty much exclusively a solo rider.

A couple of questions. I just did a 70 mile yesterday at roughly my average pace - 21-23 mph on the flats. The question is, do I need to push much harder to set up for a century? I'm doing a Gran Fondo coming up in about a month or so, and I'm thinking about doing the century option, with 8000 ft of climbing, which is slightly daunting since my typical rides don't top over 2000 ft (it's flat here in NJ). Given that I generally rest less than other people (as far as I believe), do I need to be concerned, or just do a little more climbing, or consider that in a Gran Fondo situation I'll be picking up some draft, probably using the rest stops pretty liberally, and can take it easy between the timed segments (the climbs). Or do I need to take it up a notch in terms of training?

The other question goes to what others are saying about being shocked by being passed by not-so-obviously-fit people. To put this in context, I have little experience riding with others, maybe the occasional ad hoc paceline with some nearby racing teams out training. But I know from personal experience, at this training level, that I'm burning a lot of calories and that its fairly difficult to imagine keeping up a more, shall we say, portly build, under these circumstances. Now granted, I also spend about 4-5 hours a week in the gym lifting weights, and I eat generally normally, but I'm still always surprised by pictures I see from local cycling clubs, especially the big urban clubs nearby, in terms of the builds of club members. I would think, given the fitness that cycling demands, that people would look more obviously fit.

That said, the club has different levels - I'd say the A level riders look like A level riders. But even their C level riders do 100 mile "graduation" rides, and yet they look, frankly, none too fit. What am I missing about cycing here?


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## atwabn

theStig said:


> So I've been riding for about 5 years, average about 200-300 miles a month, nothing major. Usual rides are between 40-60 miles, not a big deal. I'm not _terribly_ out of shape (6'0", 200lbs)
> 
> So i decide to sign up for a couple of centuries this year and train for a bit beforehand. On the day of the event, I'm doing pretty good up to mile 70 or so, and then it becomes a death march. I drink about a bottle (full of cytomax or water) every hour to 90 minutes. I eat every 20 minutes. Average about 14-15mph on the flats in an effort to conserve my strength, but by mile 70, nothing helps much so I slog on and eventually finish in about 6.5-7hours.
> 
> Now, it is not my intention to be offensive or rude, but it surprises me to see middle aged severely overweight women (like 250+ lbs) on big comfy touring bikes start passing me around mile 80 or 90. It's not they were stocky or "big boned". They were morbidly obese, and pedalling on like nothing is phasing them while I'm struggling on my flash carbon race bike, legs going numb? How is this possible?



Riding long distances like that is all about cadence man. You should google proper riding cadence and read about how the slow/fast twitch muscle fibers burn different energy sources. If you have never done this before it can be an eye opening experience. I remember when I first learned that I should be keeping a high cadence count ~90rpm, and the reasons for it, my speeds went up and my times on long rides went down. I still ride a 38 lb beasty steel bike and can do a century in about 4.5 hours and be totally fine at the end. 

One thing that can help you on long distance rides like that is to actually drink a bit of coke or sprite every 30-45 mins. much better than a sportsdrink imho


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## Waxbytes

We are only as good as what we train for. If my normal ride is 25 to 50 miles I will start to have problems around mile 70-75. About 1/3 more than my normal max ride. Even if I'm in good shape I will start to feel overworked. If you want to ride a comfortable century then ride to 75 miles regularly.


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## windmic

There are a few people who have pointed this out, but maybe not coming out straight enough. There really is NO question what is going on. You do train. You ride 50-60 milers. So, if you did a tour that was 60 miles you would do fine. You don't do 100 miles. At mile 70 your body is remembering that it is done. So, you are done. You train 80 or 90 miles once every 2 or 3 weeks, your 100 mile ride will feel more like your 60 mile ride. I race 60 and 75 miles all the time. I do two 100 mile tours during the year, and the training I do for the 100 mile rides is much different than the training for the 60-75 mile rides. I never lasted until I trained for 100 miles.


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## antonlove

I ride about the same pace as you, only I'm about 180 lbs and I'm not 41. I ride in Chicago (flat as a pancake), and did the Insane Terrain ride which is A LOT more climbing than I've ever attempted. http://www.vikingbikingclub.com/insane-terrain/index.htm



gpcyclist25 said:


> The question is, do I need to push much harder to set up for a century? I'm doing a Gran Fondo coming up in about a month or so, and I'm thinking about doing the century option, with 8000 ft of climbing, which is slightly daunting since my typical rides don't top over 2000 ft (it's flat here in NJ).


IMHO, you don't need to train harder, but the more climbs you can incorporate into your training, the better prepared you'll be for that particular ride. And, don't be surprised when you don't ride your normal average pace during the ride. 



gpcyclist25 said:


> I would think, given the fitness that cycling demands, that people would look more obviously fit...What am I missing about cycing here?


1st, you can't assume because someone is a member of a cycling club, that he/she spends countless hours in the saddle. Some members spend a lot less time working out than you think. Also, some people are only cycling. So their legs may look fit, but their upper bodies may not look that way. That being said, just because that person may have a pot belly, doesn't mean he/she isn't fast.


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## gpcyclist25

antonlove;3457713
IMHO said:


> Yeah I've been searching around for more climbing.
> 
> I'm going to start doing more specific interval training, as opposed to the ad hoc kind I've done until now. Your comments re: pacing are well-taken, as I generally try and take it easy, sometimes unsuccessfully, when I do the longer/hillier rides. I think I've to some extent mentally limited my own training because since I ride alone, I don't relish the idea of blowing up 25 miles from home, so I don't redline it as much as I used to when I lived in Manhattan and did the CP loop, which meant I was never more than a mile from my apt.
> 
> That said, I probably won't push the distance any further, but do more hills, and specifically, more intervals and LT training. At this point I have to risk a blow-up here or there.


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## jr59

Waxbytes has it right!

It really comes down to your fitness level.
You don't ride that long normally, yet you think you should be able to tough it out?
Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

Spend more time riding longer distances and riding them becomes easier!


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## sometimerider

theStig said:


> Average about 14-15mph on the flats in an effort to conserve my strength, but by mile 70, nothing helps much so I slog on and eventually finish in about 6.5-7hours.


I don't follow this. A 7 hr century is 14.3 mph.

In other words, you didn't slow down after your supposed bonk.


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## antonlove

sometimerider said:


> I don't follow this. A 7 hr century is 14.3 mph.
> 
> In other words, you didn't slow down after your supposed bonk.


+1. The math doesn't add up.


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## Fireform

You can't judge a book entirely by its cover at this level. A guy who rides with a group I often do centuries with is about 6-1 and at least 270, shaped like a football. He's overweight enough that the insides of his thighs slap his seatpost on every stroke. The ride is 22mph minimum and draws some very strong riders. 

The first time I did that ride I was waiting for him to bonk or worse. Imagine my surprise when he took over the front at 80 mi and proceeded to tow us along at 26 for the next 6 miles. 

Since then he's never failed to amaze me. If he could shed 70 or 80 lbs he'd be emperor of the peloton.


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## antonlove

Fireform said:


> You can't judge a book entirely by its cover at this level. A guy who rides with a group I often do centuries with is about 6-1 and at least 270, shaped like a football. He's overweight enough that the insides of his thighs slap his seatpost on every stroke. The ride is 22mph minimum and draws some very strong riders.
> 
> The first time I did that ride I was waiting for him to bonk or worse. Imagine my surprise when he took over the front at 80 mi and proceeded to tow us along at 26 for the next 6 miles.
> 
> Since then he's never failed to amaze me. If he could shed 70 or 80 lbs he'd be emperor of the peloton.


You must be riding with Vontress. :lol:


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## Fireform

That's the correct general species, but younger.


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## ghost_racer

*There are a lot of factors to consider....*

Distance cycling has much to do with other factors besides body shape and weight. Age and genetics play an important role: for example, my girlfriend and I (in our early twenties) were invited by a friend to do RAGBRAI this year. Back when I was in undergrad and worked part-time at a shop over the summers, I rode all the time, but for the last year or two, I've been maybe doing 100-200 miles a month MAX (way less over the winter). Furthermore, I had a nagging knee injury which didn't allow me to ride much for 5 weeks before the ride. 

Aside from the 100 degree heat and absurd (80-90%) humidity this year, I was fine on every ride. The first 4 days were something like 60,70,65,55. I could easily have done centuries. 

Am I "in shape?" Well, in a very generic sense yes, I am a very active person. But as far as cycling goes, I wasn't in great riding shape. Nevertheless, I find time to do a weekend 80-100 miler by myself once every two months or so, and ride in the evenings when I'm not climbing or doing something else.

Endurance ability depends highly on your willingness to endure pain, too.


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## antonlove

ghost_racer said:


> Endurance ability depends highly on your willingness to endure pain, too.


+1 One guy in our riding group says that when you get tired, you should resist your desire to whine :cryin: and channel that into your desire to pedal faster.


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## Trevor Ash

About pacing....

I think that's the important skill to learn for long distance riding. I don't use computers on my bikes, or hear rate monitors. Instead, I simply listen to my body. You can get pretty good at determining your effort this way with a little practice. The biggest mistake most people make concerning effort is trying to keep a stable speed. That's not going to produce a stable effort. The tiniest of hills, while difficult to see with the eye sometimes due to illusions in the road, can be felt by your legs.

13 to 14 seems like a well paced average for most people, but perhaps you're doing too many short bursts of energy for various reasons and not realizing it.


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## mldebono

*One recommendation:*



theStig said:


> So I've been riding for about 5 years, average about 200-300 miles a month, nothing major. Usual rides are between 40-60 miles, not a big deal. I'm not _terribly_ out of shape (6'0", 200lbs)
> 
> So i decide to sign up for a couple of centuries this year and train for a bit beforehand. On the day of the event, I'm doing pretty good up to mile 70 or so, and then it becomes a death march. I drink about a bottle (full of cytomax or water) every hour to 90 minutes. I eat every 20 minutes. Average about 14-15mph on the flats in an effort to conserve my strength, but by mile 70, nothing helps much so I slog on and eventually finish in about 6.5-7hours.
> 
> Now, it is not my intention to be offensive or rude, but it surprises me to see middle aged severely overweight women (like 250+ lbs) on big comfy touring bikes start passing me around mile 80 or 90. It's not they were stocky or "big boned". They were morbidly obese, and pedalling on like nothing is phasing them while I'm struggling on my flash carbon race bike, legs going numb? How is this possible?



I had the same issue, and I am sure most of it has to do with training. That said, I recently did a 50 mile mtn bike race which took me 6 hours (5400 feet of climbing, training base about the same as yours, maybe like 250 miles a month). From hours 2 - 5 I downed a gel every 20 minutes. At hour 5 I started to bonk. I ate 3 gels and a bannana immediately. Then 20 minutes later ate two more gels. I read somewhere that you should eat 300 calories an hour during a ride. I followed that until I bonked. I then quickly ingested 500 calories with of Gels and a banana.

That made me feel worlds better. No idea why how or what changed, but it gave me forty more minutes of energy. At hour 6, I finished, and really bonked - so in addition to training more - you may want to eat more at the end than you have.

One more comment - for the two months before the six hour race, which is effectively equivalent to a century for me - the longest ride I could get in was 2 hours. That said, when I did ride I tried to make sure I rode hard: hills, intervals, etc. etc.

I have a century tomorrow and I will let you know whether or not my theory of short hard training, coupled with overdosing on gels at the end works again.


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## gpcyclist25

I've done 4 centuries this season, and I think most of the above observations are accurate. One century was flat, and other 3 were fairly hilly - 6000-8000 ft of climbing.

While YMMV, the one thing I did see was that being able to finish a flat century, while not a small thing, was not much compared to doing a hilly century. That is, in my experience, while body type may be deceptive with respect to flat centuries, its practically destiny with respect to centuries with a bunch of climbing. I don't consider myself anything better than a mediocre climber, but I would generally pass denser people while get passed by people with reedier builds. And there just wasn't a lot of ambiguity about this.

I did a 75-mile supported ride a week ago, mostly just for kicks, and it was a remarkably flat ride, except for the last 10 miles, which had a very gentle hill, one that in more challenging centuries wouldn't even be noted, and the amount of human wreckage by the side of the road was remarkable. You'd see people every hundred meters or so, just resting with their bikes on the side of the road, all because this was the most climbing in the entire ride. Well, it was either that or they loaded up way too much on the chocolate fountain at the prior and final rest stop. Either way, it confirmed that you shouldn't be shocked at heavier people finishing flat centuries. But you'll probably find it rare that they perform well on centuries with meaningful climbing.


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## Fixed

*bonked*

Sounds like you bonked. Out of gas. At that point, a 5 year old could beat you.


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## Ray Brandes

I just started riding again about a month ago. Today I did the longest ride yet, 27 miles. Our pace was 18 to 20 and I took a pull every mile. At about mile 18 or 20 I could only take a pull every third mile and with about a mile and a half to go I just sat up. 
So, I suspect you and I both pushed a little harder than wise when we could and paid for it in the end. Not the bonk if you were drinking and eating...
Regards, Ray


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## Special Eyes

My good friend and road bike rider is about 300 lbs, and has little nuclear powerplants on his legs. He just finished a metric and is planning a full century soon. His legs are powerful from years of hauling around his body, so when siting on a bike, all that strength goes into moving him forward. Sort of makes sense.


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## david58

My office mate and frequent ride partner is 6'6 and weighs about 270. Rarely dropped on any hill, of course the first to the bottom (has balls and the assist of gravity), and can pull us for a looong time. The guy that pulled 80% of our 60-miler today is in his mid-60's - STRONG rider. Books and covers and all that....


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## Ray Brandes

Your friend is probably much easier to draft than someone who fits the description of a "tall drink of water!" I am 63 and manage to pull for a mile, every other mile for a while. Although non-stop rides over 30 miles are not much fun at all. I like to take a rest every 25 miles on centuries. - RB


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## david58

Ray Brandes said:


> Your friend is probably much easier to draft than someone who fits the description of a "tall drink of water!" I am 63 and manage to pull for a mile, every other mile for a while. Although non-stop rides over 30 miles are not much fun at all. I like to take a rest every 25 miles on centuries. - RB


Funny thing is that the gent is exactly that - a tall drink of water. Wish I were so fit...


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## johnshe

You're not eating enough. Calculate how much you will burn in 100 miles. Take that amount of food with you. 

Same thing happened to me. Bonked at 70. Brought the appropriate number of calories and finished strong every time. I usually bring raw almonds, peanuts and fruit (bananas, oranges, peaches, etc)


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## velocanman

johnshe said:


> You're not eating enough. Calculate how much you will burn in 100 miles. Take that amount of food with you.


A lot of research and experience says that you can't replace all the fluids and food you burn while riding. About 300 calories per hour is the maximum recommended by many. Check out hammer.com for more info. And no, I don't have any affiliation with them unless you count 15 years as a customer and 50 or so centuries.


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## Ray Brandes

*GU Energy Gel*

A lot easier to take while riding than eating a bannana!
Cant post the link. Something about not having enough posts.....


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## ChazMan428

*conquering the century*

Wow, I really need to check these threads more often. Two things struck me in your post. Not enough mileage and not enough drinking. I'd say more solid training would be 150-200 miles per week. Steady state daily rides (20-30 miles each) with longer rides (40+ miles) on the weekends. Maybe find a couple metric centuries to do as a test. 

As far as drinking, you may need more than that. I can carry 5 bottles on my bike, 4 of them have sports drink (Hammer Perpetuem 2 scoops per 24 oz bottle) one is water. I have half a bottle every 11 miles, so that gets me to 88 miles. I refill one and top off the water bottle at the 50-something mile rest area. I also pop a e-gel gel pack every hour. So near the end of the ride I at least have plenty of plain water and gel packs to get me through if needed.


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## antonlove

ChazMan428 said:


> As far as drinking, you may need more than that. I can carry 5 bottles on my bike, 4 of them have sports drink (Hammer Perpetuem 2 scoops per 24 oz bottle) one is water. I have half a bottle every 11 miles, so that gets me to 88 miles. I refill one and top off the water bottle at the 50-something mile rest area. I also pop a e-gel gel pack every hour. So near the end of the ride I at least have plenty of plain water and gel packs to get me through if needed.


I don't carry anywhere near that amount of liquids, but I stop and get some along the way.

I do have to agree on the Hammer Perpeteum. It's pricey, but good for you. I'll warn you up front that it is an acquired taste.


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## ChazMan428

Yeah, I'm one of those that doesn't like to stop. To me it's ore of an accomplishment and eats up less overall time. When I used the Orange flavored perpetuem, I added two packets of Stevia sweetener per 24 oz. bottle, that helped. I changed over to the Strawberry last year, it needs something but I'm not sure what, it sort of give me cotton mouth. I think Perpetuem is like liquid food. I'm also a firm believer in the e-gel gel packs. Check them out at cranksports.com.


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## ziscwg

ChazMan428 said:


> As far as drinking, you may need more than that. I can carry 5 bottles on my bike, 4 of them have sports drink (Hammer Perpetuem 2 scoops per 24 oz bottle) one is water. I have half a bottle every 11 miles, so that gets me to 88 miles. I refill one and top off the water bottle at the 50-something mile rest area. I also pop a e-gel gel pack every hour. So near the end of the ride I at least have plenty of plain water and gel packs to get me through if needed.


Wow, 5 bottles. I carry two and turn the water refill stops fast at around 25, 50 and 75 miles. 1-2 min each on refills. 

I have to wonder if you being 3 bottles lighter and doing quick refills would not get you there faster. What does a bottle weight? 3x that.

But, you do what works for you. I don't like to stop either, but the refill does loosen up my back a bit.


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## Stumpjumper FSR

ChazMan428 said:


> Wow, I really need to check these threads more often. Two things struck me in your post. Not enough mileage and not enough drinking. I'd say more solid training would be 150-200 miles per week. Steady state daily rides (20-30 miles each) with longer rides (40+ miles) on the weekends. Maybe find a couple metric centuries to do as a test.
> 
> As far as drinking, you may need more than that. I can carry 5 bottles on my bike, 4 of them have sports drink (Hammer Perpetuem 2 scoops per 24 oz bottle) one is water. I have half a bottle every 11 miles, so that gets me to 88 miles. I refill one and top off the water bottle at the 50-something mile rest area. I also pop a e-gel gel pack every hour. So near the end of the ride I at least have plenty of plain water and gel packs to get me through if needed.


2 Scoops of Perpetuem per hour AND an E - Gel? ... thats 420 Calories per hour ..WOW.
Do you pre mix the Perpetuem or mix it with water along the way, I myself can't stomach
warm Perpetuem. I've ridden 12 Centuries this year using Perpetuem as my sole source of calories, 1 1/2 scoops per hour based on my weight (180) and 21 - 25 oz of water per hour as suggested by Hammer and it seems to work for me.


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## ChazMan428

True, the bike is heavier with all that fluid on board but it gets lighter as the ride goes on and I drink up. Plus, it gave me extra help on one particular century. I was one of the early people to head out and got a flat at about 16 miles. While changing it, two big groups rode by. Of course I was mad I missed being picked up by a pack. However, as I was approaching the rest stop at about 31 miles, a lot of them were just leaving that stop so I was able to ride with a few people and leap-frogged my way up by working the draft.


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## Caadmandu

ok let me get this straight.. your ave ride is approx. 50 miles in one day and you ave between 200-300 a month. This means you ride between 4-6 times a month ! I wouldn't call that a very dedicated cyclist. 6' 200lbs doesn't say anything about what shape you are in or riding condition. You might smoke 6 packs a day and drink a 6 pack a day. You have a carbon bike? humm gotta ask why lol.... ok so you averaged 14.2 for your 100 mile ride, that's not bad for being out of shape and I have a real hard time believing a 250+ lb lady on a touring bike just road past you at that speed.... Don't mean to sound rude but these things just don't add up.


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## fdghsrtws

I average around 100 miles a week, based mostly on the TCTP. I typically average around 18mph solo for those miles. Last summer, i averaged 18mph for my 1st 100miles of a 24hr challenge, granted it was with a good group. By mile 200 or so, i was down to 16 mph with no one to draft. Maybe you should include some intervals? If you can raise your FTP, you can raise the avg speed for a century...

Chuck


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## orthobiker

*70 mi fade*

This may sound stupid but it works for me. CocaCola. I found this out on the death ride the first time when I thought I was cooked half way up the last climb. Stomach upset. Had a Coke and watermelon slice and was a new man. Passed a lot of people who passed me before the stop, even after I sat down for my soda.

On my first double (Solvang) I kept up with the faster members in our group until about mile 160 then had to drop off the back. Limped into last rest stop and again had a Coke and then felt great on the big climb and back to the finish.

I also used Hammergel products on the doubles and never felt bonkie.


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## SlowMover

Dang man I will give you props for even attempting a century on less than 100 a week. I was around that mileage when I did my first century and paid dearly for it. Never made that mistake again and ensured I had the mileage in my legs next time!


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## cyclesport45

NEXT TIME; Count 10 weeks backwards from the century. You should be doing about 80 miles a week at that point. Up your weekly mileage by 10% every week, and up your mileage on your 1 weekly long ride by 10% too. By week before century, you should be to 200 miles/week, with 1 long ride of maybe 70 miles. Then the couple days before the century, go for a 5 mile ride, slowly!

Experiment with nutrition way before the century.


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## tuck

Stig...aren't you supposed to be out driving around the Top Gear track?


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## Digger51

antonlove said:


> I would advise you to train with a group. Not only is it fun, but experienced cyclists will teach you what you need to know to get better. Set some realistic goals and you'll be fine.


Riding with a group an learning about nutrition are the two biggest reason I was able to jump from a longest ride ever of 50 miles in October 2011 to completeing a century in Feb of 2012. During the mile mile ride in October I had severe cramps at mile 46 and had other issues that I would never had known about if I did not start riding in a group with more experienced riders.

The group tought me about nutrition for energy and avoiding cramps, what to where for cold mornings and warm afternoons, how to spin in an effective manner, riding my pace, stretching myself without overdoing it and probably other items I just "picked" up withour realizing it. On top of that it is fun to ride with others.


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## gordy748

My few thoughts. I've never been scientific about eating or drinking. I eat like a pig before a big ride, try not to vomit the first hour then eat and sip every 20 - 30 minutes after that. Intakes are a mix of energy things; porridge to start and on the bike I'll take brown buns hollowed out and filled with banana, cheese and honey. Weird, but works.

In your email you are very prescriptive about what you eat and drink. Could be you need something different. If the temperature is very hot, then larger people will struggle more (a simple factor of cooling surface area versus heating internal mass). You may need a change in diet (sic).

Finally, don't worry so much about women in long distance rides. Genetically, women have less mitochondria as men, meaning they cannot transfer oxygen into power so easily. They have a little over half the red blood cell percentage that men do, meaning they cannot get oxygen to their muscles as efficiently. But their bodies are more efficient than males at working at a sub anaerobic level. So us guys can kill them on a sprint, but the gals can chug away much better than we can.

(some errors may be in this paragraph but the basic principle works. Men=anaerobic advantage, women = relative aerobic advantage)


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## KenSmithMT

my two bits....
Get out and ride more! You need to train your body to be able to use the stored fuels you have in stored fats. Eat all the carbs and energy shots you want. They wont help. Your body can store and process a limited amout of carbs to use as fuel. Several hours worth, but when its gone, its gone. The short training you have been doing is training your body to be able to ride for an hour or two and then quit. You need to train your body to dig into the stored fats and then you can go forever. You can do it easily in as little as three days a week. All you need is a little time and a simple heart rate monitor. Try this. Monday-Off, Tuesday - 90-120 minute ride at 65-70% max heart rate. Wednesday-Off. Thursday - 60 minute ride with 35-40 minutes worth of intervals. Friday-Off. Saturday - 120 min ride at 65-70% with (5)3 minute 90% intervals around mide ride. Sunday-Beer and Pizza. As you get closer the the century event bump the saturday ride to 180 minutes. You'll notice the rides are described in minutes, not miles. Miles are not important. Getting your body to work for hours is the goal. Three rides a week like this are much better than (6)60 minute rides. You will notice as the weeks go on that you wil cover more miles in the time described. This is not a recipie for an olympic athlete, but it will kick your metabolism into gear so you can ride and have fun. 
During the century rides watch your monitor and try keep your heart rate in the 65-70% range and you'll end the ride happy and feeling like doing another lap.
I would also suggest you track down those large ladies and go for a few rides with them. See what they are doing that works. You'll also have someone to talk to if they catch you again next year.


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## Intandem

Yeah that makes no sense


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## antonlove

I just saw a morbidly obese guy finish in the top 10 in a cat 4 crit race yesterday. Unfortunately, I saw him cross the line in front of me. You know, the whole judging a book by it's cover thing applies here.


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## gpcyclist25

antonlove said:


> I just saw a morbidly obese guy finish in the top 10 in a cat 4 crit race yesterday. Unfortunately, I saw him cross the line in front of me. You know, the whole judging a book by it's cover thing applies here.


Gravity tends to be a better equalizer with respect to judging books by the cover.


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## krimoc

*Endurance Event Nutrition*



KenSmithMT said:


> my two bits....


There is some validity to what KenSmith is talking about. A research paper titled "Optimizing Fat Oxidation Through Exercise and Diet" revealed that the highest levels of fat oxidation during endurance exercise occurs when performing at low to moderate intensities. The significance of this idea is echoed by the research and testing done by Bob Seebohar at performancewebinars.com. He performs Metabolic Assessment Testing that helps athletes understand how hard they can go and how much nutrition they need to take in during long and multisport events. My take on this is that Seebohar says you need to train your body to feed on its immense fat stores while saving your stored glycogen for the hard efforts. Some of Seebohar clients have unbelievably low nutrition intake compared to what I though was possible. His ideas to me are paradigm shifting.

I've been trying to understand why my performance goes south after 4 to 5 hours of effort when beginning from a fasted state. Anyway, I learned you have to have a meal before a big ride and eat sufficiently per hour, drink energy drinks and ride with low to moderate intensity (<75% MHR). That said, you still have to put in the miles one way or another.


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## JoyceHerstad

theStig said:


> So I've been riding for about 5 years, average about 200-300 miles a month, nothing major. Usual rides are between 40-60 miles, not a big deal. I'm not _terribly_ out of shape (6'0", 200lbs)
> 
> So i decide to sign up for a couple of centuries this year and train for a bit beforehand. On the day of the event, I'm doing pretty good up to mile 70 or so, and then it becomes a death march. I drink about a bottle (full of cytomax or water) every hour to 90 minutes. I eat every 20 minutes. Average about 14-15mph on the flats in an effort to conserve my strength, but by mile 70, nothing helps much so I slog on and eventually finish in about 6.5-7hours.
> 
> Now, it is not my intention to be offensive or rude, but it surprises me to see middle aged severely overweight women (like 250+ lbs) on big comfy touring bikes start passing me around mile 80 or 90. It's not they were stocky or "big boned". They were morbidly obese, and pedalling on like nothing is phasing them while I'm struggling on my flash carbon race bike, legs going numb? How is this possible?





why I can not show my post


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## mpre53

If the OP is averaging 14-15 mph, finish a century in 6:30 or 7:00 is just about right. At 15 mph, at 6 hours, you're at 90 miles. I don't get the point of the post. Riding 200-300 miles a month, I don't see how you can help being tired at 80 miles.


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