# 7.9 lb bike



## Cevan (Jul 19, 2004)

http://www.m2racer.com/info.php?entry=bike


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## pdainsworth (Jun 6, 2004)

it's light and all, but would you really want to ride it? I'll take my 19 lb boat anchor any day.


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## DLd (Aug 25, 2005)

*sweet*

seat looks comfy... I have a feeling Lance would still beat me even if I was riding this featherlight.


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*where the shifters go?*



Cevan said:


> http://www.m2racer.com/info.php?entry=bike



they can't be those little black "arms" where the derailleur micro-adjustments usualy are?
it also looks like a 3 speed.


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## omniviper (Sep 18, 2004)

i kinda feel that the biek is like a matchstick waiting to break... but thats litespeed.


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## clgtide1 (Jul 24, 2002)

*Litespeed = Lifetime Warranty*



omniviper said:


> i kinda feel that the biek is like a matchstick waiting to break... but thats litespeed.


Litespeed has a lifetime warranty for the original owner. Combine that with no weight limit and I would probally have to disagree....


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

omniviper said:


> i kinda feel that the biek is like a matchstick waiting to break... but thats litespeed.


That bike was built up by a shop here in town, for M2. One of the guys that put it together rode it for three weeks, giving it plenty of abuse (stairs, curb hopping and the like, he says), and said that it felt stiffer than the previous gen. Ghisallo. Read about on the Weight Weenies BBS. In the same thread, a Litespeed employee also gives some insight.

So y'all might want to stow the lame engineering hypotheses until you actually know what yer talking about.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

"How much does your bike weigh?"
"About 8 pounds"
"18 pounds did you say?"
"No, 8... E I G H T"
"Oh... How does it ride?"
"Don't know, I perforated my scrotum when I sat on the seat so I have to take it easy for a while."


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

*Oh boy...*

It's that bike again. 

Isn't this about the third time now that bike has been posted here?

No thanks... You can have it.


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## boris the blade (Aug 5, 2004)

alienator said:


> That bike was built up by a shop here in town, for M2. One of the guys that put it together rode it for three weeks, giving it plenty of abuse (stairs, curb hopping and the like, he says), and said that it felt stiffer than the previous gen. Ghisallo. Read about on the Weight Weenies BBS. In the same thread, a Litespeed employee also gives some insight.
> 
> So y'all might want to stow the lame engineering hypotheses until you actually know what yer talking about.


stairs my ass, something would have broke


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

boris the blade said:


> stairs my ass, something would have broke


As I said, that's what he said. You can go to the WW BBS and ask him.


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## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

boris the blade said:


> stairs my ass, something would have broke


Don't piss off the weight weenies... they are a bit sensitive about their affliction. 

I'm sure the bike is actually LESS than 7.9 lbs- since no one ever exaggerates such stats.


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## tommyv (Feb 7, 2005)

First post ever, but I had to. Stairs!! What a joke. How could you say that and not expect to get some reaction?


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

tommyv said:


> First post ever, but I had to. Stairs!! What a joke. How could you say that and not expect to get some reaction?


I dunno.....since I just posted what someone else said? Like, dude did you not read what I said? Like, dude, like it was just roughly what like one of the wrenches on the bike said, dude.

Like dude, did I make any claims about the bike? Nah, like you've got serious reading issues if you or anyone think I did.....just like any of you got serious thought issues if you think you know anything about a bike by looking at it. Dude. Nice first post. Now trundle off to your room: you've got junior high tomorrow and you've gotta put your jammies on.


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## elviento (Mar 24, 2002)

Reminds me of those informercials selling bullsht products (kitchen knives, etc.) -- they often claim: this knife (or whatever product) will never wear out. If it does, we will give you a brand new one absolutely free. 

Warranty does not equal quality. In other words: many crappy bikes do not make one good bike. 



clgtide1 said:


> Litespeed has a lifetime warranty for the original owner. Combine that with no weight limit and I would probally have to disagree....


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## Raceface9465 (Aug 16, 2004)

alienator said:


> I dunno.....since I just posted what someone else said? Like, dude did you not read what I said? Like, dude, like it was just roughly what like one of the wrenches on the bike said, dude.
> 
> Like dude, did I make any claims about the bike? Nah, like you've got serious reading issues if you or anyone think I did.....just like any of you got serious thought issues if you think you know anything about a bike by looking at it. Dude. Nice first post. Now trundle off to your room: you've got junior high tomorrow and you've gotta put your jammies on.


7 times! who say "like" tha many times? chill out bro, its only a forum... as for the bike, i'll take it... and sell it, weight isnt the only thing or even the first thing i look at when buying a bike.


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

You guys just can't stand it when someone builds something nice, can you? - TF


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## tommyv (Feb 7, 2005)

Hey alienator- calm down a little. I can read that you were just conveying what the shop dude said but you were using his statement to support your "stow the lame engineering hypothesis" statement. How many of your road bike have you tested by riding down some stairs? Does anyone else on this forum test their bikes that (if so, photos please)? That is a joke and that is what I was responding to. If you didn't think that was total bull, why didn't you say so in your response.

By the way, I'm far from junior high age but if trying to belittle me makes you feel better, whatever.


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## S2H (Jul 10, 2005)

What kind of pedals are one that thing?


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

Scotty2Hotty said:


> What kind of pedals are one that thing?


http://www.m2racer.com/products.php?entry=products&id=11

TF


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## Cevan (Jul 19, 2004)

*This was the 1st post about this bike*

as far I can see. According to the Velonews article, the cassette is a one-off carbon fiber unit and the shifters are also one-off plastic units (yes, it is those little black things on the downtube. The article indicated that other parts were "tuned" and drilled. I posted it because it was interesting, not race worthy.


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## chicks (Mar 19, 2005)

one word . awesome


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## clgtide1 (Jul 24, 2002)

*Whatever......*



elviento said:


> Reminds me of those informercials selling bullsht products (kitchen knives, etc.) -- they often claim: this knife (or whatever product) will never wear out. If it does, we will give you a brand new one absolutely free.
> 
> Warranty does not equal quality. In other words: many crappy bikes do not make one good bike.[/QUOTE
> 
> Normally I would say that such a foolish statement does not even deserve a reply....In this case you are so far off base that someone has to to call you on it. If I use your logic a company that offers a LIFETIME warranty plans for its products to fail. We all know that in the real world that could/would never happen. In my opinion Litespeed should be commended for standing behind its products. By refering to them as "crappy bikes" you have already proved my point....You really do not know what your talking about.


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## brewster (Jun 15, 2004)

you'd sure look cool on that rig with the brake cables flapping in the breeze like it's 1978.


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## shabbasuraj (May 14, 2005)

more pix.

http://www.fairwheelbikes.com/gallery/vicm2.html


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## estone2 (Sep 25, 2005)

eh, the huret rear derailleur scares me...
i'd rather just get a Ghisallo frame, throw on DuraAce, Cineli RAM bars, Zero Ti brakes, Arione saddle, Lightweight Ventoux wheels, and Keo Carbon/Ti pedals

well, that and the rest of the lightweight stuff, there's some M2 stuff that looks like it would be nice, such as those pedals (98grams for the SET?!), the saddle (well for 2 hours at a time...), etc etc, but im not listing those till someone else has tried them and declared them to not be complete and utter crap (not saying they are, just that theyre untested).
Good companies make bad products sometimes (PI Gel Lites. this generation, need i say more?), and new companies are a gamble often.


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## soulsurfer104 (Jun 30, 2003)

they could probably drop the weight by another pound or three if they trimmed those cables ;-)


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## petzi-baer (Sep 21, 2005)

soulsurfer104 said:


> they could probably drop the weight by another pound or three if they trimmed those cables ;-)


Another bike with around 3800 gr. Website is german, but if you move the mouse over bike you can see details:

canyon 



thanks

petzi-baer


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## tube_ee (Aug 25, 2003)

It's finally happened... Someone on a cycling forum looks at a pair of downtube shifters and doesn't know what they are!!! That's sad... I'll bet they're cut down Modolos, but I'm not sure.

You can knock a pound off your bike if you know how to shift... Brifters are heavy.

The RD is a Huret Jubilee, still the lightest RD ever made. And they shift pretty darned well. As someone wrote in a Riv Reader article about them.... "They're friction. They shift as well as I do." Not quite as smooth and fast as a Suntour Superbe, (what is?), but a nice shifting, 96 gram derailleur.

As to the levers, older, no-return-spring, non-aero levers with drilled handles are about as light as you'll find, and I don't doubt that it'd take a bit less housing to go the non-aero route than to follow every curve of the handlebar.

--Shannon


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

tube_ee said:


> The RD is a Huret Jubilee, still the lightest RD ever made. And they shift pretty darned well. As someone wrote in a Riv Reader article about them.... "They're friction. They shift as well as I do." Not quite as smooth and fast as a Suntour Superbe, (what is?), but a nice shifting, 96 gram derailleur.


And as we all know the Riv Reader is absolutely unbiased and perfectly credible in its claims and dogma. Uh-huh. There is no way what-so-ever that Grant is NOT open minded. No way. Nuh-uh. I'm sure he looks at everything with an emprical view. Uh-huh. There is no way that he's some close minded, "those were the good ol' days" retro grinch.

FWIW, the 7.9 lb Litespeed Ghisallo was built at Fairwheel Bikes, in Tucson, by Jason, and was done as an exercise to see how light they could go. You can search over at Weight Weenies to get the lowdown on the build.


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## tube_ee (Aug 25, 2003)

alienator said:


> And as we all know the Riv Reader is absolutely unbiased and perfectly credible in its claims and dogma. Uh-huh. There is no way what-so-ever that Grant is NOT open minded. No way. Nuh-uh. I'm sure he looks at everything with an emprical view. Uh-huh. There is no way that he's some close minded, "those were the good ol' days" retro grinch.


FWIW, the Riv Reader quote was from a guy who owns a few Jubilees, not Grant. Also FWIW, it mirrors my limited experience with the Jubilee. It's a pretty nice shifting derailleur, asuming the rider knows how to shift. As I said, it's not as quick and positive as my 1980 Suntour Superbe, but then, in friction mode, nothing I've ridden is. That includes D/A and XTR, both of which I've used in friction. In my hands at least, the early Suntour Superbe and Cyclone are the best-shifting friction derailleurs ever made. But the Huret isn't bad.

And if lowest wieght is your goal, STI / Ergo are off the menu anyway. Nice, to be sure, for those that like 'em (I don't), but light, they aint. And there's no other RD that comes anywhere close to the Jubilee for weight.

I understand why they picked it.

--Shannon


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

"It's a pretty nice shifting derailleur, asuming the rider knows how to shift."

That sounds contradictory to me. A good shifting D just shifts. - TF


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## brblue (Jan 28, 2003)

*Some more about the Canyon..*



petzi-baer said:


> Another bike with around 3800 gr. Website is german, but if you move the mouse over bike you can see details:
> 
> canyon
> 
> ...


I've found the link to schmolke's innovations (maybe some others of you found it too), and i think those are the finest brifters i have ever seen. 

http://www.smolik-velotech.de/bilder/projekt39/index.htm

I find them wonderfully ingenious  I still got a question about how the brake calipers should stay centered and not rub a sidewall of the rim (as they seemingly do in one pic) BTW, I do not even have enough words to express my admiration about the rear der of the bike. Personally I do not give that much on lightweight i just like things that are so simple as this bike is


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## brblue (Jan 28, 2003)

*sorry that was smolik not schmolke ))*

.............nm


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## woz (Dec 26, 2005)

Hi,

As this bike keeps popping up, I thought perhaps I could answer a few questions, dispell some rumors and confirm others. I built this bike with light in mind, but the tradeoff, was that it did need to be occasionally rideable. As it is used a few times a year for some hillclimbs. We did actually have the weight down a little more, but opted to add a few grams for a little safety, as the last thing I would want to see is someone getting hurt on one of my projects. 

Alot of the parts on this bike were custom built by some of the best manufacturers in the industry, so those we know are reliable. Others are older and have stood the test of time. And a few were prototypes on the bike for testing.





tommyv said:


> First post ever, but I had to. Stairs!! What a joke. How could you say that and not expect to get some reaction?


This was a little misunderstanding. I rode the frame for 3 weeks. At this time it was still a prototype and Litespeed was wanting to see it put through it's paces. Yes, I did drop stairs on it. Nothing too insane, but I see nothing wrong with dropping 3 steps on my roadie, I do it almost daily on my commute. Sometimes even a little light trials riding on it, just to impress the other roadies on the morning rides.




Scotty2Hotty said:


> What kind of pedals are one that thing?


M2 Orb, these were some ultralite prototypes that are still being tested, the standard version weighs 99grams. 




Cevan said:


> as far I can see. According to the Velonews article, the cassette is a one-off carbon fiber unit and the shifters are also one-off plastic units (yes, it is those little black things on the downtube. The article indicated that other parts were "tuned" and drilled. I posted it because it was interesting, not race worthy.


Good point, obviously this bike was not built for crits, sprints or road racing. It was an experiment to see how light of a hill climb bike we could build.

The cassette was a prototype but is now available for sale. http://www.sub-4.de/1902269.htm The cassette was surprisingly durable. As this was also tested on another bike before being installed. No problem with sprints or shifting under load. Wear was about 1500km.





tube_ee said:


> It's finally happened... Someone on a cycling forum looks at a pair of downtube shifters and doesn't know what they are!!! That's sad... I'll bet they're cut down Modolos, but I'm not sure.
> 
> You can knock a pound off your bike if you know how to shift... Brifters are heavy.
> 
> ...


Close, the shifters are not modolo but based on an old simplex model. 

The rear der. at less than 90grams complete works surprisingly well with the downtube shifters, of course I wouldn't mix it with sti.

The cable housings cannot be shortened as they are Tune plastic stuff and very stiff, they also weigh almost nothing, as their is no metal in them or the cables themselves.




brblue said:


> I've found the link to schmolke's innovations (maybe some others of you found it too), and i think those are the finest brifters i have ever seen.
> 
> http://www.smolik-velotech.de/bilder/projekt39/index.htm
> 
> I find them wonderfully ingenious  I still got a question about how the brake calipers should stay centered and not rub a sidewall of the rim (as they seemingly do in one pic) BTW, I do not even have enough words to express my admiration about the rear der of the bike. Personally I do not give that much on lightweight i just like things that are so simple as this bike is


The bike is a Canyon, another custom with the same goal as ours, the lightest rideable hill climb bike. 

I did really like their idea for shifters and brakes. Unfortunately the guys that made it, have already scrapped the shifter design, as it will infringe on patents by Shimano and Campy, and in their words is not worth pursuing.

The brakes are a good idea, but still need more developement, in their words, the stopping power is moderate but not good enough.


Hope this info helps, if anyone has any more questions, please feel free to post them.

Cheers

Jason

P.S. if anyone needs pics of trials riding on road bikes, me and another guy at the shop can arrange it. He's much better than me, doing bench to bench on just the rear wheel on picnic tables. You'd be surprised how hard it is with drop bars.


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## tj69 (Feb 13, 2005)

woz said:


> if anyone needs pics of trials riding on road bikes, me and another guy at the shop can arrange it. He's much better than me, doing bench to bench on just the rear wheel on picnic tables. You'd be surprised how hard it is with drop bars.




nope...wouldn't be surprised at all


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

woz said:


> Hi,....lots of info about his exploits........Hope this info helps, if anyone has any more questions, please feel free to post them.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> ...


Iffin' Woz waz a lead character in "Full Metal Jacket" and I was cast as a little Vietnamese boy or girl in said movie, as Woz walked by, I'd give a thumbs-up and say, "Joe number one."

One visit to his Tucson LBS lair would rid you of the idea that LBS wrenches are not worth the flesh they're housed in. Damned knowledgeable Joe. Joe Number One Wrench. Other Wrenches at other LBS number ten. Joe number one.


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## TBomb (Dec 4, 2005)

brewster said:


> you'd sure look cool on that rig with the brake cables flapping in the breeze like it's 1978.


haha...i literally laughed out loud at that comment...nice


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## Emilio84 (Oct 5, 2004)

Wow thats awesome. Makes me wonder how light a fixie version of that bike would be. sub 5lbs? Toss the brakes/cables/derailers/etc


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## fmw (Sep 28, 2005)

It needs a bottle cage and a computer.


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## Road cyclist (Jan 15, 2005)

Cevan said:


> http://www.m2racer.com/info.php?entry=bike


Since their bike is an on-going project to shave weight, I would like to suggest
they only ride it on the MOON. I forgot the the weight savings conversion, ( 3 or 4 to 1). Doesn't seem like this bike is for me, I would spend too much money on fuel to get to 
the optimum bike path to minimize the weight.


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## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

Road cyclist said:


> Since their bike is an on-going project to shave weight, I would like to suggest
> they only ride it on the MOON. I forgot the the weight savings conversion, ( 3 or 4 to 1). Doesn't seem like this bike is for me, I would spend too much money on fuel to get to
> the optimum bike path to minimize the weight.



Moon gravity is 1/6 Earth gravity. But you can share some M2 love here on Earth w/ a pair of their new Ti QR's. So lurrrvly they are. The Ti lever looks classy w/ the black nuts and the red pivots. And it clamps down oh so right and has that progressive, positive cam feel of internal cams.....with half the calories and less weight, 36g baby.


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## Road cyclist (Jan 15, 2005)

But you can share some M2 love here on Earth w/ a pair of their new Ti QR's. So lurrrvly they are. The Ti lever looks classy w/ the black nuts and the red pivots. And it clamps down oh so right and has that progressive said:


> I can't see this Ti QR on the bike pics, no lever on the front or rear. I will check the M2 site.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

*From their Website*



> Comprising the lightest, finest components on the market today,


I wasn't aware they still produced Mafac brake levers, Modolo gear levers, Huret Jubilee mechs or Propellor Cranks anymore. 


> creating the lightest possible race-ready bike


Hill climbs only on smooth clean roads!


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## homebrew (Oct 28, 2004)

I am hearing lots of opinions from guys that have zero time on a well spec'd light weight road bike. To assume that all light weight parts break or do not function well is as dumb as assuming that every heavy piece of crap is strong. As most of these experts do not race can you explain the disdain for downtube shifters? They may not be for everyone but they work very well and are a viable option to anyone that wants to save weight,cost, or wants an easy to maintain bike. I have used many of the bits found on this bike in the past and have been well served. They functioned as advertised.
We all enjoy different aspects of bikes. Those that want a full tour bike or those that want a weight weenie bike all get my full respect. For myself a bike that the owner has researched each part and put together into a workable whole demands more respect then buying some off the shelf bike anyday. Just my opinion. 

PS nice bike, thanks for showing us what can be done with a little creative spirit


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