# Garmin haters



## steelbikerider (Feb 7, 2005)

must be made up of all of the former Postal/Disco/Radio shack haters. Garmin wins their first classic and the bile continues. Meanwhile, RS is having a pretty good season and hardly a word good or bad after LA retires.


----------



## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

No, It has more to do with the sideburns than the riders. Generally Vaughters has a way of generating like/hate responses (love is a bit strong an emotion).

Winning a monument goes a long way to justifying all of the hype you got as a Classics squad. They're not on the level of Quick Step, and they'll likely be marked out of contention in the future, but it's a very respectable win in a very respectable way.


----------



## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

I give the Argyle Sideburns all the credit even though I think Vaughters is a d-bag. Perfect last 50km from Garmin, they rode a smart race and had a bit of luck. Chapeau.

As I said in another forum, I am moving on to mocking Pozzato for the rest of the season and leaving Vaughters alone.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

JohnHemlock said:


> As I said in another forum, I am moving on to mocking Pozzato for the rest of the season and leaving Vaughters alone.


A year late, but enjoy :thumbsup:


----------



## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

den bakker said:


> A year late, but enjoy :thumbsup:


Yeah, my mocking has a bandwagon / reactionary component to it. I thought about mocking Peter Sagan but that seems mean even given his last 2 classics performances. Hincapie is unpatriotic. So I am on Pozzato until I can come up with someone more obscure but deserving.


----------



## Sylint (Jul 27, 2009)

I like Garmin....but JV makes it hard.


----------



## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

It's the sideburns...


----------



## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

It appears people dislike for JV has clouded their ability to understand tactics. 

Last week we saw JV giving orders over the radio.....the same orders every other DS, besides BMC, was giving their riders. 

Last week, and this week, the guy really giving the orders was PVP....so when they question the tactics it was not JV that is the source of this direction.


----------



## peter584 (Aug 17, 2008)

burgrat said:


> It's the sideburns...


Ditto. I think Garmin could really help boost American interest in the sport, but JV as their spokesman isn't helping.


----------



## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

Separated at birth?
Jonathan Vaughters









...and Harland Williams









Just sayin'.

He would gain so much street cred on the interwebs if he would just get rid of the sideburns. Honestly, I think that's 50% of the problem most people have with him.

I liked Garmin. I liked Cervelo Test Team. I like the new mix, especially since they aren't covered in argyle (personal preference). I'd like to see them mix it up with Columbia more, and maybe take a Grand Tour this year. I like it when the wins are spread out among the teams, and there's a reason other than product placement and UCI requirements for a particular team to be at a given race. Hope they get some sort of momentum going with this.


----------



## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

steelbikerider said:


> must be made up of all of the former Postal/Disco/Radio shack haters. Garmin wins their first classic and the bile continues. Meanwhile, RS is having a pretty good season and hardly a word good or bad after LA retires.


Pretty much.

But last week week was a breaking point for alot of people who supported the team. Getting caught on video telling the guys to ride for third really didn't go over well.

Winning Roubaix eliminates all of that.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

DZfan14 said:


> Getting caught on video telling the guys they are sprinters...


fixed it for you.


----------



## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

JV is as poor of a manager as he was a rider. It is funny how he leads the riders lobby and is front and center over the radio debate, but it the only time he has found himself leading riders in the pro peloton.

My distaste for Garmin comes from all the excuses they make for Tyler Farrar. How he is just as fast as Cavendish, but consistently loses to him for this reason or that. I actually like several of their riders, and really enjoyed watching the domestique win.


----------



## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

I don't recall anyone from Garmin ever saying Farrar is as fast as Cav. That would be absurd.


----------



## pagey (Oct 30, 2009)

> JV is as poor of a manager as he was a rider


Should never of got rid of Matty White


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

spookyload said:


> JV is as poor of a manager as he was a rider.


and yet he has managed to make a protour team from basically nothing. Amazing.


----------



## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

den bakker said:


> and yet he has managed to make a protour team from basically nothing. Amazing.


So has Jim O. You don't hear him complaining all the time.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

spookyload said:


> So has Jim O. You don't hear him complaining all the time.


who? But you're right, never heard him.


----------



## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

den bakker said:


> who? But you're right, never heard him.


He was president of USA Cycling from 2002-2006. Olympic rider in 1972 and 1976. Inducted into the US cycling hall of fame in 1977. Most notably he founded the 7-11 cycling team which brought pro cycling into the US media.


----------



## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Congrats to VanSum and Garmin for the win - can't take that away from them.

But are we truly talking about Garmin greatness or the collapse of the super team, Leopoldo Trekster (Saxo 2.0) to do for Spartacus what Garmin did for VanSum?


----------



## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

spookyload said:


> JV is as poor of a manager as he was a rider. It is funny how he leads the riders lobby and is front and center over the radio debate, but it the only time he has found himself leading riders in the pro peloton.
> 
> My distaste for Garmin comes from all the excuses they make for Tyler Farrar. How he is just as fast as Cavendish, but consistently loses to him for this reason or that. I actually like several of their riders, and really enjoyed watching the domestique win.


ditto - my feelings precisely.


----------



## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

DZfan14 said:


> I don't recall anyone from Garmin ever saying Farrar is as fast as Cav. That would be absurd.


that would be absurd, but that's exactly what they do - hype Farrar, and now they are hyping Haussler, Hushovd and others (Zabriskie, Millar, Danielson, etc.). The hype-to-results ratio is higher at Garmin than at any other team.

Hesjedal is the only under-rated rider Garmin has. And perhaps Van Summeren.


----------



## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

spookyload said:


> JV is as poor of a manager as he was a rider. It is funny how he leads the riders lobby and is front and center over the radio debate, but it the only time he has found himself leading riders in the pro peloton.
> 
> My distaste for Garmin comes from all the excuses they make for Tyler Farrar. How he is just as fast as Cavendish, but consistently loses to him for this reason or that. I actually like several of their riders, and really enjoyed watching the domestique win.


All I can say is that the right Garmin rider won Paris-Roubaix this year.
What was he, no. 4 or 5 in the pecking order?

Very happy for Van Summeren.


----------



## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Ooh! Hold the Front Page!!! Garmin have won a race.

Garmin v HTC - no contest.
Garmin v RS - no contest.
Garmin v Quick Step, Liquigas, Movistar etc, no contest.
Garmin v Sky - a draw, they're both full of it. All smoke and no poke.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

albert owen said:


> Garmin v RS - no contest.
> Garmin v Quick Step, Liquigas, Movistar etc, no contest.
> Garmin v Sky - a draw, they're both full of it. All smoke and no poke.


Which of the teams above have won a monument this year? (or as you would call it, 'a race')


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*that there*



den bakker said:


> Which of the teams above have won a monument this year? (or as you would call it, 'a race')


is pawnag3


----------



## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

den bakker said:


> Which of the teams above have won a monument this year? (or as you would call it, 'a race')


Early Days! Get back to me in September. I'll wager that Garmin are still in single figures or if they perform out of character - low teens. . 

In the meantime glory in HTC's start to the year.

Race - Monument - Stage - Whatever. It is a day in the saddle and someone crosses the line first.


----------



## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

55x11 said:


> that would be absurd, but that's exactly what they do - hype Farrar, and now they are hyping Haussler, Hushovd and others (Zabriskie, Millar, Danielson, etc.). The hype-to-results ratio is higher at Garmin than at any other team.
> 
> Hesjedal is the only under-rated rider Garmin has. And perhaps Van Summeren.


Danielson's been overhyped on every team he has ridden for. Including your beloved Discovery Channel team.

Of course they are hyping themselves. WTF do you expect from a team who is trying to get publicity for their sponsors. Good for them. Their only crime was not winning enough big races and not kissing the butt of the yellow wristbanded zombie Lance fans.


----------



## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

albert owen said:


> Early Days! Get back to me in September. I'll wager that Garmin are still in single figures or if they perform out of character - low teens. .
> 
> In the meantime glory in HTC's start to the year.
> 
> Race - Monument - Stage - Whatever. It is a day in the saddle and someone crosses the line first.


They are already in the teens. Do you actually follow cycling or do you just read what the fanboy British cycling press is spewing. 

Phil Ligget actually said Cavendish was a favorite for PR. What a crock.


----------



## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

55x11 said:


> ditto - my feelings precisely.


Please tell us about how great your pro career was. Also tell us all about the WorldTour team that you pretty much built from scratch. 

If you guys are so great then please tell us about your exploits in leadership and management.

I cringe every time I see JV talk. His sideburns are ridiculous, he looks pasty and comes across like a total dweeb. But the guy is a major player in the sport. And he doesn't care what you think.


----------



## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

DZfan14 said:


> Please tell us about how great your pro career was. Also tell us all about the WorldTour team that you pretty much built from scratch.
> 
> If you guys are so great then please tell us about your exploits in leadership and management.
> 
> I cringe every time I see JV talk. His sideburns are ridiculous, he looks pasty and comes across like a total dweeb. But the guy is a major player in the sport. And he doesn't care what you think.


Alas, it is a public forum and not a biography...so I could care less what he thinks of my opinion.


----------



## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

DZfan14 said:


> They are already in the teens. Do you actually follow cycling or do you just read what the fanboy British cycling press is spewing.
> 
> Phil Ligget actually said Cavendish was a favorite for PR. What a crock.


Wow. I certainly rattled your cage.


----------



## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

When Van Summeren crossed the finish, the first thing I thought was, how long until a thread comes about how bad JV is/ how ya like me now. I do wish I was as "bad" at my job as JV.


----------



## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

albert owen said:


> Wow. I certainly rattled your cage.


5 bucks said you had to google in order to figure out what a monument was.


----------



## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

spookyload said:


> He was president of USA Cycling from 2002-2006. Olympic rider in 1972 and 1976. Inducted into the US cycling hall of fame in 1977. Most notably he founded the 7-11 cycling team which brought pro cycling into the US media.


He knows who he is. He's just being dismissive to avoid conceding or addressing a point.


----------



## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

steelbikerider said:


> must be made up of all of the former Postal/Disco/Radio shack haters. Garmin wins their first classic and the bile continues. Meanwhile, RS is having a pretty good season and hardly a word good or bad after LA retires.


Nope, I am a JB fan, and JV hater. I can admit Vaughters tactics work and still call him a douchebag who relies on douchebag tactics. Lots of douchebags are winners. Lots of events are open to being won by douchebags using douchebag tactics. You get the trophy, but there's always the asterisk* _douchebag win_.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Jesse D Smith said:


> He knows who he is. He's just being dismissive to avoid conceding or addressing a point.


Anything else you want to tell the world I know, even though you're wrong?


----------



## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

55x11 said:


> that would be absurd, but that's exactly what they do - hype Farrar, and now they are hyping Haussler, Hushovd and others (Zabriskie, Millar, Danielson, etc.). The hype-to-results ratio is higher at Garmin than at any other team.
> 
> Hesjedal is the only under-rated rider Garmin has. And perhaps Van Summeren.


To claim that they're "hyping" the current world champion makes it seem like you might not be giving them a fair shake.


----------



## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

albert owen said:
 

> Early Days! Get back to me in September. I'll wager that Garmin are still in single figures or if they perform out of character - low teens. .
> 
> In the meantime glory in HTC's start to the year.
> 
> Race - Monument - Stage - Whatever. It is a day in the saddle and someone crosses the line first.


Are you serious? They don't necessarily make the season, but if you don't think that the riders and teams prioritize the monuments, you're crazy. They'd gladly trade a win in one of them for several lesser wins. Andy FYI, we've already had three of the five, and by September, we'll only have seen one more.


----------



## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Jesse D Smith said:


> Nope, I am a JB fan, and JV hater. I can admit Vaughters tactics work and still call him a douchebag who relies on douchebag tactics. Lots of douchebags are winners. Lots of events are open to being won by douchebags using douchebag tactics. You get the trophy, but there's always the asterisk* _douchebag win_.


But only in your mind, which is fine.


----------



## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

Undecided said:


> To claim that they're "hyping" the current world champion makes it seem like you might not be giving them a fair shake.


That and "hyping" a rider is alot different than saying that any of their riders is faster than Cavendish. Really nobody can make that claim.

I doubt anyone from Garmin actually said that.


----------



## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

55x11 said:


> that would be absurd, but that's exactly what they do - hype Farrar, and now they are hyping Haussler, Hushovd and others (Zabriskie, Millar, Danielson, etc.). The hype-to-results ratio is higher at Garmin than at any other team.
> 
> Hesjedal is the only under-rated rider Garmin has. And perhaps Van Summeren.


You know that every one of those riders has won a stage of a grand tour except JVS. That four of them are/have been national champions. One has won a green jersey, is current world champ and has been on the podium at Roubaix. Two others have been on the podium at worlds. One has been 2nd @ MSR and RVV. Those are results that 90% of teams would kill for, so why would you not want to hype that. I don't want to jump on the Garmin bandwagon, but they have more depth than any other team, just not the wins.


----------



## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

Undecided said:


> Are you serious? They don't necessarily make the season, but if you don't think that the riders and teams prioritize the monuments, you're crazy. They'd gladly trade a win in one of them for several lesser wins. Andy FYI, we've already had three of the five, and by September, we'll only have seen one more.


I still don't think he understands the difference between a Monument and ordinary semi-classic or stage win. 

What he is saying is that winning the Masters is the same thing as winning some lame PGA tournament Hartford Connecticut. 

Garmin just won the most prestigous and most difficult one to win. They would gladly cash in every win this year to date and then some for PR. And just about every other team would do the same outside of maybe Saxo and HTC who already have a Monument.


----------



## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

DZfan14 said:


> I still don't think he understands the difference between a Monument and ordinary semi-classic or stage win.
> 
> What he is saying is that winning the Masters is the same thing as winning some lame PGA tournament Hartford Connecticut.
> 
> Garmin just won the most prestigous and most difficult one to win. They would gladly cash in every win this year to date and then some for PR. And just about every other team would do the same outside of maybe Saxo and HTC who already have a Monument.


You are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Pro bike racers see it as another race. If it was the be all, end all, guys would fight to get on the squad to race it. Italians would rather win San Remo. Many would rather win Tour of Flanders or Liege. I am happy you are excited your team finally showed up to a race this year. JV's managing talent definately wasn't shown at Flanders when he missed the boat totally and let BMC do the work. We will see how he does with the Giro, Tour, or the Vuelta. Maybe your boy DZ will finally live up to some of the hype they seem to give him. Hasn't yet, but you never know. I am sure he will rock the field at Tour of California though. That is definately a biggy to win.

As a side note, go check out the velonews article where they rode with the Garmin mechanics at PR. The Garmin mechanic himself even called it just another race.


----------



## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Hey DZ:
1 - I've just Googled "Monument" and came up with stuff about the Great Fire of London. Was this started by someone racing a bicycle?
2 - I also looked up the number of "races" Garmin have won this season and got the answer 6. Is 6 in the Teens?


----------



## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

albert owen said:


> Hey DZ:
> 1 - I've just Googled "Monument" and came up with stuff about the Great Fire of London. Was this started by someone racing a bicycle?
> 2 - I also looked up the number of "races" Garmin have won this season and got the answer 6. Is 6 in the Teens?


Not my fault you can't use google effectively. If you seriously think that a win in some unimportant stage race in Oman or Qatar is as big of a deal as winning PR, then hey, go for it.


----------



## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

spookyload said:


> You are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Pro bike racers see it as another race. If it was the be all, end all, guys would fight to get on the squad to race it. Italians would rather win San Remo. Many would rather win Tour of Flanders or Liege. I am happy you are excited your team finally showed up to a race this year. JV's managing talent definately wasn't shown at Flanders when he missed the boat totally and let BMC do the work. We will see how he does with the Giro, Tour, or the Vuelta. Maybe your boy DZ will finally live up to some of the hype they seem to give him. Hasn't yet, but you never know. I am sure he will rock the field at Tour of California though. That is definately a biggy to win.
> 
> As a side note, go check out the velonews article where they rode with the Garmin mechanics at PR. The Garmin mechanic himself even called it just another race.


I read the article after you pointed it out. I don't agree with the way you interpreted it.

The mechanic at first says: 

“It’s just another bike race. I hate to be blasé about it, but it’s true,” he said. “There’s a certain romance to it, but in reality for me it’s a job and it’s a bike race.”

Fair enough, I can see how a mechanic might feel that way, but then in another quote he goes on to say this:


“There’s two races I’ve always wanted to do, for their history and place in the sport. One is Milan-San Remo. And I got to do it in the team car. The other is Roubaix. And here I am"

And this his buddy says this:

“I just love this race. After Roubaix, races aren’t the same. Since I was a kid I watched San Remo and all the spring classics. I grew up watching them. For me, it’s the nicest time of the season. For today, it’s gonna be a really good race, but the weather is way too good!”


And not to mention this:

"For Roubaix, Garmin had all hands on deck. Four mechanics were called in, along with an army of soigneurs and physios. Even team owners and management went into action to cover as many sections of cobbles as possible."

I really don't believe that this is thought of as just another race based on this article. But thanks for pointing article out.


----------



## Dank (Nov 26, 2006)

I was thinking they were gonna be the Team Sky of 2010. Super Team with no REAL results, but that has now changed. Good job Garmin.


----------



## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

mtbbmet said:


> You know that every one of those riders has won a stage of a grand tour except JVS. That four of them are/have been national champions. One has won a green jersey, is current world champ and has been on the podium at Roubaix. Two others have been on the podium at worlds. One has been 2nd @ MSR and RVV. Those are results that 90% of teams would kill for, so why would you not want to hype that. I don't want to jump on the Garmin bandwagon, but they have more depth than any other team, just not the wins.


That's precisely my point. They are all outstanding riders. So naturally one would expect decent results. But each time they manage to under-deliver. They talk about dominating TTT (and with Millar and Zabriskie it would seem reasonable) and then they lose it. They talk about dominating sprints and then come up with an excuse every time Farrar gets beaten. Then they talk up Julian Dean and Robbie Hunter, who are supposed to be more of a helper role, as if they will take on Cav.
With all the talk of super-spring classics team, with Hushovd, Haussler and Farrar - none of these were much of a factor in races. Thank god for Van Summeren.

I guess my problem is that I desperately want them to be successful, but I also now fully expect them to f-it-up and finish 2nd, 4th, 14th, whatever. Maybe it is TOO MUCH talent for one team? Maybe they need to have clear leader and then helpers and a clear strategy instead of throwing everything at the wall and hoping that something (see Van Summeren) sticks.


----------

