# six carbon 3 or six carbon 5?



## Linga115 (Aug 14, 2008)

im pulling the trigger on either the six carbon 3 or the six carbon 5 for racing purposes. cant decide whether or not i want the higher component or pay less for lower components. with a little research the main components im concerned about is the wheelset and drive. so i would like to hear your thoughts on the components for one vs the other. would you personally go for the 3 or 5 knowing that you are going to be racing this season with it. should i just get the 5 and upgrade components as i go along? or should i just start myself better off and get the 3? open to all opinions.

components.

3
Rims Mavic Askium
Hubs Mavic Askium
Spokes Mavic Askium 

Front Derailleur Shimano Ultegra SL
Rear Derailleur Shimano Dura Ace
Shifters Shimano Ultegra SL

5
Rims Shimano WH-RS-10
Hubs Shimano WH-RS-10
Spokes Shimano WH-RS-10

Front Derailleur Shimano 105
Rear Derailleur Shimano Ultegra SL
Shifters Shimano 105 

thanks in advanced


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## cyclust (Sep 8, 2004)

I doubt you will be able to tell a difference in the components, and both bikes have pretty much entry level wheels, so I would take them for a spin and see which one feels better. If you are going to race, and you can afford it, you'll will probably want to pick up a better set of wheels down the road at some point, so maybe your best choice would be the one that has the most durable set of wheels, as you could designate those as your training wheels once you get a set to race on. Just my .002.


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## orl2222 (Jul 26, 2008)

The 3 has better STI shifters, a shorter throw on the little to big rings in the front, shifting on the rear will be the same. Ultegra is a tad lighter than 105's, but its personal choice. Go with the bike that feels more comfortable to you. Either way the frame is the same.


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## Linga115 (Aug 14, 2008)

thanks for the advice cyclust and orl. 

i should have probably put out a little more about my background. im racing for college. this is not my first bike. ive been mountain biking for some time and i can tell the difference between good and bad components. my experience in road components is so so. which is why i am asking would you go for the better package or save a few hundred and go for the lower package. ideally i am going to save up enough for race wheels since i can get some through the team. somewhere down the line im probably gonna upgrade to full dura ace drive.


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## funhog1 (Jan 26, 2003)

If it were me, I'd choose neither. I'm biased towards CAAD9's that have a lighter and proven frames. A synapse for the same $ will be lighter and have better components. 

But a six won't make your life miserable. Hope you find what makes you happy. 

Peace.


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## Linga115 (Aug 14, 2008)

funhog1 said:


> If it were me, I'd choose neither. I'm biased towards CAAD9's that have a lighter and proven frames. A synapse for the same $ will be lighter and have better components.
> 
> But a six won't make your life miserable. Hope you find what makes you happy.
> 
> Peace.


i'd like to hear your arguement for the CAAD9 frames. sorry if i sound misinformed but i thought that the CAAD frames were aluminum as opposed to carbon... wouldnt aluminum be heavier than the carbon frame?


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## orl2222 (Jul 26, 2008)

If your going to race, CADD9 is the way to go. It's light, and to my estimation, comfortable. I have a Bianchi C2C carbon, and my CADD9 is lighter by a half a pound. Plus if your racing, a aluminum frame is a lot cheaper than carbon.


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## Linga115 (Aug 14, 2008)

orl2222 said:


> If your going to race, CADD9 is the way to go. It's light, and to my estimation, comfortable. I have a Bianchi C2C carbon, and my CADD9 is lighter by a half a pound. Plus if your racing, a aluminum frame is a lot cheaper than carbon.


that seems to go against everything i thought i knew about road bikes. i thought that a carbon frame would be lighter than a aluminum frame. not to mention carbon is stiffer than aluminum meaning that there would be a better transfer of power. i understand that aluminum is more comfortable because it absorbs shock better, which i can see having benefits during a race... bottom line i always thought that carbon frames were better for racing because they are lighter and stiffer than aluminum frames.

can someone please weigh out the pros and cons of each. along with what they would personally go with for racing? out of the whole cannondale line up.


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## orl2222 (Jul 26, 2008)

The reason I stated that the CADD9 would be better for you is that:
A. Aluminum is cheaper to replace in case of a crash than carbon
B. The CADD9 is proven podium winner
C.If you look at the geometry specs, they are the same as the 
carbon Cannondales your looking at.
D. The bottom bracket is just as stiff.
E. If you are sponsored by a local shop, you can order the CADD9
with BB30.
F. With the savings you'll get with the CADD9, you can buy a better
set of wheels.


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## funhog1 (Jan 26, 2003)

*Just Preference that's all.*



Linga115 said:


> that seems to go against everything i thought i knew about road bikes. i thought that a carbon frame would be lighter than a aluminum frame. not to mention carbon is stiffer than aluminum meaning that there would be a better transfer of power. i understand that aluminum is more comfortable because it absorbs shock better, which i can see having benefits during a race... bottom line i always thought that carbon frames were better for racing because they are lighter and stiffer than aluminum frames.
> 
> can someone please weigh out the pros and cons of each. along with what they would personally go with for racing? out of the whole cannondale line up.


No argument my friend, just preference. Everyone has their own favorite flavor. When it comes to actual performance fit is obviously the most important. To me at least. 

As far as Cannondale's product line goes my preferences are based on this:

CAAD9's weigh 1200ish grams for a 56cm frame, depending on the paint, decals, and who welded/machined it that particular day. 

On the other hand a Six will weigh 1300-1400ish grams for a similar sized bike. 

The CAAD9 design is a design that has been refined over the years from not just the excellent engineering at Bedford PA, but also years and years of professional and non-professional feedback from riders. 

Six's are *new* to the market. The word is still out from the masses. It's an unproven frame. It may be a great bike, it may not. I prefer to wait out the initial season any new design comes out. Six's are also being produced under the auspices of Dorel Industries Chinese offices, instead of Cannondale's Bedford PA factory where the Super Six Hi-Mods are assembled/made. 

As far as carbon bikes being lighter than alu? Weeeeel. Folks would be surprised if they'd actually weigh them. For the most part, top of the line Hi-Modulus carbon frames are generally as light or much lighter than some aluminum frames. 

However, when Synapses first came out, some of those frames weighed 1500 GRAMS!!! (size 56cm)

It's amazing what manufacturers can get away with when market perception isn't well informed. Many many people are riding *carbon* frames that are far heavier than they imagine. 

It's not that those bikes do not ride great, or that they are not well made. It's just that perception does not often match the reality when it comes to *carbon*.

Carbon isn't just *carbon*. Some frames have more resin than others. The grade of carbon varies widely. This is no different than steel -- 4130 Cromoly, Reynolds, 531, 853 & 953, all weigh considerably different, and perfom different, and have different manufacturing tolerances. 

Carbon may be looked at the same way. Different material obviously, but there are many different grades. 

Manufacturers know that *Cheap* carbon bikes will sell to a lot of people simply because they are carbon. 

Yet for 2009 the Synapse weighs less than a Six, and generally has what is regarded as better componentry when compared to the Six. Put simply, the Six could be looked at as Dorel industries *cheap* carbon version of C-dales more sophisticated and or proven designs and products. 

Yet If someone loves the Six, then they should get the six. If the six rocks someones world and they want it. I'm all for them to go get it. They have nice paint, they look great...and if someone is getting a sweet deal from a great LBS and they enjoy the fit and the ride. Who cares about the weight? If they do care about that, and maybe prefer a more reputable design, or better components -- then they may find the CAAD or Synapse to be the better deal. Ultimately it doesn't matter specifically to me what anyone else gets.


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## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

To supplement what ORL2222 said, actually the best carbon is stiffer than the highest grade alum, and perhaps lighter. However, when it's lower grade carbon and aluminum, then it really depends on the frame builder. However, if two bikes are built with exactly the same geometry, and one is carbon, the other alum, the carbon will likely be more comfortable because carbon fiber has more road dampening qualities. Alum has a harsher ride quality, not to be confused with "stiffness." Alum does not flex, thus making it stiff and harsh. 

If the purpsose of your bike is almost all devoted to racing and training to race, then stick to the least expensive bike you can get (which happens to be alum). On short road races, a carbon bike will not make much difference in your performance, if any. If you're going to use the bike for, say long road rides, club rides, with 1 or 2 race days a month, then you may want to have a carbon bike, or an alum bike with some carbon tubes, like a Six or Six13. As it is your first road racing bike, I'd really stress on cheap...a lot of racer friends of mine still use steel or alum bikes, and they're CAT4 and CAT3. Just have fun, it doesn't matter what bike frame you use. Fit is the most important, then wheels (light and relatively bombproof rims and tires), then perhaps gearing (decent rear der, and shifters). Frame material is not important in amateur racing. 



Linga115 said:


> that seems to go against everything i thought i knew about road bikes. i thought that a carbon frame would be lighter than a aluminum frame. not to mention carbon is stiffer than aluminum meaning that there would be a better transfer of power. i understand that aluminum is more comfortable because it absorbs shock better, which i can see having benefits during a race... bottom line i always thought that carbon frames were better for racing because they are lighter and stiffer than aluminum frames.
> 
> can someone please weigh out the pros and cons of each. along with what they would personally go with for racing? out of the whole cannondale line up.


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## Linga115 (Aug 14, 2008)

thanks everyone for all of your info. 

i just might go for the CADD instead of the six. i will be doing a team fitting with the LBS some time this week and hopefully they will have both bikes available for me to check out. i can understand the money issue thing too... being in college doesnt exactly leave you with much money to throw around. 

anyways thanks again. if anyone has any more info they would like to contribute i would be more than happy to read it. keep the good stuff coming.


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## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

Linga115 said:


> thanks everyone for all of your info.
> 
> i just might go for the CADD instead of the six. i will be doing a team fitting with the LBS some time this week and hopefully they will have both bikes available for me to check out. i can understand the money issue thing too... being in college doesnt exactly leave you with much money to throw around.
> 
> anyways thanks again. if anyone has any more info they would like to contribute i would be more than happy to read it. keep the good stuff coming.


"being in college doesnt exactly leave you with much money to throw around." True dat!

Unless your team or team sponsor, i.e. bike shop, if you have one, offers you some deep discounts on the Six 5 (normally priced where I live at $1649), thereby making it comparably priced as a regular priced CAAD9 6 (at $999), then just stick with the CAAD9.The CAAD9 6 has Tiagra drivetrain except for a Sora front der, and the Six 5 has 105 drivetrain except for the Ultegra rear der. Yes, the components are better on the Six, but as you're starting out, I'd just take the CAAD9 right out of the box. If you, however, plan on getting the CAAD9, and then swapping a good deal of the components, then you probably spent the amount of money you could have used to get the Six. In that case, just get the Six. If I were you, just get the CAAD, slap on your pedals and two cages and start training. In the spring, if you have some cash get some lighter wheels and another cassette on ebay or craigslist or here. I also see that the CAAD is a 9 speed, which is fine for now, but you may want to upgrade to 105 or Ultegra later. You'll have to get new chain, cassette, and shifters at a minimum, but I don't know if the Tiagra rear derailleur can handle 10speeds, so I'm not sure if you have to change it.

At the present time, spend the extra money on getting a trainer, and use it for extremely cold days, and ride outside when possible. Oh yeah get a huge fan and some DVDS, preferably cycling ones or action flick so you can watch tv while you train inside. Two hrs on a trainer aint fun.


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## Linga115 (Aug 14, 2008)

ping771 said:


> "being in college doesnt exactly leave you with much money to throw around." True dat!
> 
> Unless your team or team sponsor, i.e. bike shop, if you have one, offers you some deep discounts on the Six 5 (normally priced where I live at $1649), thereby making it comparably priced as a regular priced CAAD9 6 (at $999), then just stick with the CAAD9.The CAAD9 6 has Tiagra drivetrain except for a Sora front der, and the Six 5 has 105 drivetrain except for the Ultegra rear der. Yes, the components are better on the Six, but as you're starting out, I'd just take the CAAD9 right out of the box. If you, however, plan on getting the CAAD9, and then swapping a good deal of the components, then you probably spent the amount of money you could have used to get the Six. In that case, just get the Six. If I were you, just get the CAAD, slap on your pedals and two cages and start training. In the spring, if you have some cash get some lighter wheels and another cassette on ebay or craigslist or here. I also see that the CAAD is a 9 speed, which is fine for now, but you may want to upgrade to 105 or Ultegra later. You'll have to get new chain, cassette, and shifters at a minimum, but I don't know if the Tiagra rear derailleur can handle 10speeds, so I'm not sure if you have to change it.
> 
> At the present time, spend the extra money on getting a trainer, and use it for extremely cold days, and ride outside when possible. Oh yeah get a huge fan and some DVDS, preferably cycling ones or action flick so you can watch tv while you train inside. Two hrs on a trainer aint fun.


cannondale/ mikes bikes is our team sponsor. which is why im looking into the cannondale line. i plan on upgrading the drive if i get a CAAD 9. ive been mountain biking for a few years and know the difference a crisp clean shifting can make. i cant say what deal we are getting on the bikes but they are enough to make me want to jump on it. 

after reading that the CAAD is a proven frame and the six is not proven yet, i am leaning a little more towards the CAAD frame and then putting on dura ace drive stuff instead. the bike fitting is tomorrow and saturday. ill ask the LBS (mikes bikes) their opinions on frames as well. 

as for the trainer, i got one a few years back. i find that i get a worse work out when im watching tv on the trainer so i just litsen to music and do interval training. better work out, less time, and something to keep you occupied. watching the clock that is.


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## ShadowWraith25 (Dec 1, 2008)

Hey Linga, I've been following your thread and it sounds like we're on the same team! I can't make the Wednesday or Saturday fittings, but I'll be going down to Mikes Bikes sometime soon. I'm also considering getting the Six Carbon 5 through the sponsorship deal, but am a little hesitant since it's so new and I can't find any information about it. I've heard that the '08 Six13's were very good. It would be interesting to know how the '08 Six13's compare to the '09 Six Carbon's. I'll be interested to hear how your fitting goes and which bike you decide on.


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## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

Linga115 said:


> cannondale/ mikes bikes is our team sponsor. which is why im looking into the cannondale line. i plan on upgrading the drive if i get a CAAD 9. ive been mountain biking for a few years and know the difference a crisp clean shifting can make. i cant say what deal we are getting on the bikes but they are enough to make me want to jump on it.
> 
> after reading that the CAAD is a proven frame and the six is not proven yet, i am leaning a little more towards the CAAD frame and then putting on dura ace drive stuff instead. the bike fitting is tomorrow and saturday. ill ask the LBS (mikes bikes) their opinions on frames as well.
> 
> as for the trainer, i got one a few years back. i find that i get a worse work out when im watching tv on the trainer so i just litsen to music and do interval training. better work out, less time, and something to keep you occupied. watching the clock that is.



That's cool--then I'm sure you'll be getting a super deal on the CAAD. Btw, slightly off topic, the new 6's don't have the "Handmade in USA" sticker on the bike, so I don't know if it's made in the US anymore, if that makes a difference. The old six13's did, and also have a shorter headttube, and appear to have more a race geometry than the new 6's.


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## Linga115 (Aug 14, 2008)

ShadowWraith25 said:


> Hey Linga, I've been following your thread and it sounds like we're on the same team! I can't make the Wednesday or Saturday fittings, but I'll be going down to Mikes Bikes sometime soon. I'm also considering getting the Six Carbon 5 through the sponsorship deal, but am a little hesitant since it's so new and I can't find any information about it. I've heard that the '08 Six13's were very good. It would be interesting to know how the '08 Six13's compare to the '09 Six Carbon's. I'll be interested to hear how your fitting goes and which bike you decide on.


just got back from the fitting. we didnt even measure my body. i knew and the employee's knew that i was a small. perhaps even a size under. anyways i went for the six carbon 3. was gonna go for teh CAAD but i opted for higher components and a frame that will be more comfortable for long rides. since it will be my only bike and ill be spending lots of time on it. might as well be comfortable. thats my update for now. gotta write an essay and study for finals now.

by the way shadow wrath. my name is joe. im a D-class rider in case we met during that one meeting.


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## ShadowWraith25 (Dec 1, 2008)

Linga115 said:


> just got back from the fitting. we didnt even measure my body. i knew and the employee's knew that i was a small. perhaps even a size under. anyways i went for the six carbon 3. was gonna go for teh CAAD but i opted for higher components and a frame that will be more comfortable for long rides. since it will be my only bike and ill be spending lots of time on it. might as well be comfortable. thats my update for now. gotta write an essay and study for finals now.
> 
> by the way shadow wrath. my name is joe. im a D-class rider in case we met during that one meeting.




Hi Joe, I'm Michael. I think we must have met since I'm in D's too. Congrats on the new Six Carbon 3, it looks like an awesome bike. I've been looking into the CAAD9 too, but it's a shame it only comes in 105. A full ultegra CAAD9 would be ideal. I currently have a Trek 1500 (aluminum) with all 105 except for an ultegra rear derailleur, so the CAAD9 105 doesn't seem like it would be much of an upgrade. Does anyone know how the Six compares to the Six Carbon in terms of stiffness, comfort, weight, etc?


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## Linga115 (Aug 14, 2008)

ShadowWraith25 said:


> Hi Joe, I'm Michael. I think we must have met since I'm in D's too. Congrats on the new Six Carbon 3, it looks like an awesome bike. I've been looking into the CAAD9 too, but it's a shame it only come in 105. A full ultegra CAAD9 would be ideal. I currently have a Trek 1500 (aluminum) with all 105 except for an ultegra rear derailleur, so the CAAD9 105 doesn't seem like it would be much of an upgrade. Does anyone know how the Six compares to the Six Carbon in terms of stiffness, comfort, weight, etc?


thanks mike

from what the rep at mikes bikes told me. the six carbon will be a more comfortable ride since carbon has better shock absorbing properties. the six is the same bike but with an aluminum frame with carbon stays. so it kind of has the comfort and stiffness. but it takes a weight penalty. the price for us was not too much between the six and the six carbon. so i opted for the full carbon. more comfortable to ride. plus it has a BB30 bottom bracket. i say talk to the people at mikes bikes. they really know their stuff just like any old LBS should. ultimately since we are just getting started out, it comes down to preference and price. i took a hit in the wallet which i will be feeling, but its worth the ride. as my experience from mountain bikes tell me. if i go cheap, ill end up with teh expensive option down the road. might as well get it now.


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## ShadowWraith25 (Dec 1, 2008)

Linga115 said:


> thanks mike
> 
> from what the rep at mikes bikes told me. the six carbon will be a more comfortable ride since carbon has better shock absorbing properties. the six is the same bike but with an aluminum frame with carbon stays. so it kind of has the comfort and stiffness. but it takes a weight penalty. the price for us was not too much between the six and the six carbon. so i opted for the full carbon. more comfortable to ride. plus it has a BB30 bottom bracket. i say talk to the people at mikes bikes. they really know their stuff just like any old LBS should. ultimately since we are just getting started out, it comes down to preference and price. i took a hit in the wallet which i will be feeling, but its worth the ride. as my experience from mountain bikes tell me. if i go cheap, ill end up with teh expensive option down the road. might as well get it now.


Thanks for the info. Yeah, it's good you went with the higher-end model so you won't have to worry about whether to upgrade it or not. 

I'll have to see what the guys at Mikes recommend, but I'm sure I'll be happy with whatever I decide on.


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