# First test of S/A S3X fixed gear 3-spd hub



## bikesdirect

I just got in the first testable version of the Sturmey-Archer S3X hub. We just built it up on an existing Kilo TT to try out.

I love it!

Here is our test version with one of my guys riding it etc.

Hub is 62.5%, 75%, 100% as steps. {or 75%, 100% 133% depending on your point of view} 

This is a Test Bike; Cable routing on production bike will be down ST and along CS as you would expect. Funky routing is due to being easiest on sample bike as we could use rack braze-on for a cable stop mount 




























Works and rides and shifts great. Production version will be a bit different and have brakes coming with it. I will want this bike under $450 by as much as I can afford to do it. 

I am also bringing a "pro" level set of wheels with this hub and a bar-con shifter; which I will want under $250 or so.

I really like internal hubs and have a sample on the way of a Kilo WT {wide tire version of Kilo} with a 5-speed SA hub - KILO WT5 which gives you 62.5%, 75%, 100%, 133%, 160% gearing

ETA on our first bikes and wheels - late August; which is quick since the hub is not really released yet.

Mike

PS - I would love to hear comments and ideas on internal hub bikes


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## FatTireFred

wrong board


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## bikesdirect

FatTireFred said:


> wrong board



This is what is odd about this hub {not a normal 3-s internal}

It is a Fixed Gear Hub - just happens to have 3-speeds
In other words; this is a track bike with 3 gears 

It will be interesting to see how well S/A can get this concept accepted by consumers


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## ukiahb

thanks! have been waiting for the hub to become available and for a road test for awhile now, plan to build a bike around one ASAP...many more of my local rides would be doable fixed with this hub.
FWIW also have a Masi Soulville and love the 8sp Nexus w/ coaster brake.


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## tihsepa

Thats cool. I too cant wait to get ahold of one of these wheels. 

BD, I have several bikes from you and dont need anymore but... I want that rear wheel.


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## CleavesF

Didn't SRAM come out with a similar hub a couple months back?


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## bikesdirect

CleavesF said:


> Didn't SRAM come out with a similar hub a couple months back?



I do not think so; it is not on my Sram spec and oe list
They have a 3-speed hub, not it freewheels


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## Hollywood

CleavesF said:


> Didn't SRAM come out with a similar hub a couple months back?


Torpedo. Switches betw fixed & free with the twist of a wrench.

I won't bother linking to their lame website.


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## FatTireFred

Hollywood said:


> Torpedo. Switches betw fixed & free with the twist of a wrench.
> 
> I won't bother linking to their lame website.




was on it yesterday... prob the most annoynig f'ing website ever


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## tihsepa

FatTireFred said:


> was on it yesterday... prob the most annoynig f'ing website ever


Is that the one with that cube thingy. I almost puked on my keyboard.


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## CleavesF

A from Il said:


> Is that the one with that cube thingy. I almost puked on my keyboard.


c'mon, they just want you to "take the leap".


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## Spinfinity

This is good news for the future. I'm 60 and someday I'll be old enough to need gears to ride fixed.


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## JCavilia

That's cool.

I have a little math quibble.



> Hub is 62.5%, 75%, 100% as steps. {or 75%, 100% 133% depending on your point of view}


That can't be right. If the first set of figures is right, the second should be 83.33%, 100%, 133.44%. If the second set is right, the first should be 56.25%, 75%, 100%. I suspect it's the latter, as those would be equal jumps -- each higher gear is one-third larger than the one below.

To put it in terms fixed-freaks can understand, you could have gearing of, say, 47, 62 and 82 inches. That would be very cool sometimes.

Edit: from what I've found elsewhere online, it seems the first set of numbers are the right ones, so the lower jump is smaller than the upper one, and the low isn't quite as low. In my example. the numbers would be 51, 62 and 82 inches (with a 40x17 and typical wheel size).


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## Gregory Taylor

JCavilia said:


> That's cool.
> 
> I have a little math quibble.
> 
> 
> 
> That can't be right. If the first set of figures is right, the second should be 83.33%, 100%, 133.44%. If the second set is right, the first should be 56.25%, 75%, 100%. I suspect it's the latter, as those would be equal jumps -- each higher gear is one-third larger than the one below.
> 
> To put it in terms fixed-freaks can understand, you could have gearing of, say, 47, 62 and 82 inches. That would be very cool sometimes.
> 
> Edit: from what I've found elsewhere online, it seems the first set of numbers are the right ones, so the lower jump is smaller than the upper one, and the low isn't quite as low. In my example. the numbers would be 51, 62 and 82 inches (with a 40x17 and typical wheel size).


You are right - checking on the Sheldon Brown website, a lot of the older Sturmey Archer hubs have an overdriven (133%) top. The new S3X (HATE THE NAME) doesn't. According to the Sturmey Archer Catalog, it is 100, 75 (25% underdriven) and 62.5 (37.5% underdriven). You could make a very big mistake with gearing if you don't get that straight...


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## zriggle

bikesdirect said:


> I do not think so; it is not on my Sram spec and oe list
> They have a 3-speed hub, not it freewheels


Any chance you'll be offering just a prebuilt wheel at BD?


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## bikesdirect

zriggle said:


> Any chance you'll be offering just a prebuilt wheel at BD?



Yes
Bikeisland will have wheelsets with nice deep-v rims and high grade frt hub
wheelset will come with a bar-con shifter


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## Balderick

BD wants feedback...

I wax and wane about my thoughts about this concept. 

I can see good reason for having 3 fixed gears, but for me part of the fun of riding my track bike is I have to get home on the one gear, and having to climb that hill on an 84, then descend the other side, means I have a much harder (and curiously not much slower) ride than on my roadie. If I had a 3 speed fixie it might detract from the "got to get there on this one gear" element that for some reason makes the single gear fixie a lot of fun.

However, it would make great all weather commuter...


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## Balderick

...having typed a slightly negative post, I do find a nice retro element with that bike. My first bike, a dragster, had a Sturmey 3 speed hub. Somehow 3 gears was plenty back then. My first roadie, a steel bike with "10 speed" (2 x 5, not 2 x 10) was the same colour as your demo bike and was not dissimilar in the geo of the frame...

If it came on the market and was priced right for a fun only bike (my track and road bike are race bikes) then I would be very very tempted.


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## rogerzilla

Hub gear nerd alert.

The old ASC had closer ratios because it used a "revolving sun" principle. The planet cage of the first epicyclic stage was integral with the sun of the second planetary stage, rotating the sun in the direction of the sprocket and giving the effect of a much smaller sun than is actually possible given the axle diameter.

The new hub, from the cutaway diagram in SA's 2009-2010 catalogue, seems to have compound planets instead, a bit like the old AM medium-ratio hub. However, it must still use two stages or else the ratios between gears 1/2 would be the same as between 2/3. They haven't explained how it works in their blog, so when I get one the first thing I'll do will be to take it apart and see what's inside, before I ride it and tighten the RH ball ring down so hard that it needs a punch to get it unscrewed.

If you don't know what compound planets are, here's an AM mechanism with the gear ring removed:

https://www.peeble.com/am4.jpg

and with it fitted:

https://www.peeble.com/am5.jpg


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## Cygnus

*...compound planets...*

thanks. interesting.

how durable would these...compound planets (love that phrase) be?


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## micah356

Any update on availability for this?


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## tihsepa

Cygnus said:


> thanks. interesting.
> 
> how durable would these...compound planets (love that phrase) be?


Planetary gearsets are VERY strong. It just comes down to how many planetary pinion gears. (the little ones) The more gears the stronger. 

Just to give you a idea. Check these out.


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## Roll-Monroe-Co

Balderick said:


> However, it would make great all weather commuter...


That was the original idea.


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## Harold Snepsts

Shouldn't this thread be in the classifieds? 

or some other forum more fitting for advertisements?


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## Balderick

RMC - where did you find that advertisment? Very nice.

Spoke to a bike shop owning mate - he recalls the old SA hubs very fondly and thought they were pretty much bullet proof if serviced when suggested.


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## bikesdirect

micah356 said:


> Any update on availability for this?



This bike and wheelset was due to ship in July, and of corse it is runing a bit late. And now there has been that big Typhoon -- But I still expect the shipment to sail by Aug 31st and be in by Oct 1st.

I think there will be a lot of interest from early adopters in S3X and once the reveiws start being posted I expect even more cyclists will want to go with the fixed 3-spd


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## Roll-Monroe-Co

bikesdirect said:


> This bike and wheelset was due to ship in July, and of corse it is runing a bit late. And now there has been that big Typhoon -- But I still expect the shipment to sail by Aug 31st and be in by Oct 1st.
> 
> I think there will be a lot of interest from early adopters in S3X and once the reveiws start being posted I expect even more cyclists will want to go with the fixed 3-spd


Hi Mike-

You mentioned making a S3X wheel or wheelset available. Do you have a possible timeline on that? And can you say anything about pricing?

Edit: Sorry, you mentioned pricing in your earlier post.

Eric


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## Roll-Monroe-Co

Balderick said:


> RMC - where did you find that advertisment? Very nice.
> 
> Spoke to a bike shop owning mate - he recalls the old SA hubs very fondly and thought they were pretty much bullet proof if serviced when suggested.



http://www.sturmey-archerheritage.com/

The main content is here:

http://www.sturmey-archerheritage.com/history.php

SA had many awesome technologies that have been mostly forgotten in age of carbon fiber, at least in the US. The torch was carried on in Europe through the last several decades by SA (now owned by SunRace), Sachs (now SRAM), and innovators like Rohloff and Schlumpf. 

But there's nothing new under the sun. The IG hub (with or without integrated brakes, dynamo, etc.) and even the IG bottom bracket have been around for 100 years or more. 

Well, the only bike technology like this that I have seen that wasn't produced before 1951 (or 1920 or 1900) is Florian Schlumpf's 2-speed IG unicycle hub (though it is merely an application of pre-existing technologies): http://www.schlumpf.ch/uni_engl.htm


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## Roll-Monroe-Co

Hey, Mike, one other thing--

I just remembered something. I seem to recall reading that production of the S3X was delayed due to a last minute design change ... to allow the hub to be used with a freewheel. Is that part of the spec, as far as you know? 

Thanks!

Eric


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## Niner_Nutt

Any ETA on the wheelset built with the S3X hub? Need a set of winter wheels for the fixed gear commuter...


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## bikesdirect

Niner_Nutt said:


> Any ETA on the wheelset built with the S3X hub? Need a set of winter wheels for the fixed gear commuter...



SA has not shipped our order yet
S3X hub seems really hard to get
Our bikes and wheels where ready to build in August and it seems they may not get built till late Sept or early Oct

Thus arriving Late October - probably

Thanks


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## Harold Snepsts

bikesdirect said:


> SA has not shipped our order yet
> S3X hub seems really hard to get
> Our bikes and wheels where ready to build in August and it seems they may not get built till late Sept or early Oct
> 
> Thus arriving Late October - probably
> 
> Thanks


Boy, if only there was some website where you could list product information about the bikes you're selling. 

How convenient that would be to find specs, ship dates, prices, maybe even be able to purchase them through the interweb, instead of littering a discussion forum with threads that are really just advertisements disguised as topics. 

Ahh, but it's only a distant dream. I'm pretty sure that technology is years away.


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## bikesdirect

Bikes just landed with S3X

wheels are on the water - could be a month out

Pictures of all colors of bikes coming soon

Different ways to setup bars / shifter / cable routing / etc included in new pictures in a week or so

I would think this is a great winter bike for hilly areas


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## roadfix

nice...


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