# Looking for info on Look Bernard Hinault frame



## SteveOz1 (Sep 5, 2012)

Just picked up a Look Bernard Hinault frame on the 'bay - my question is - what group would it have been built with?


----------



## Montobo (Sep 6, 2012)

Look made the first carbon frame in 1986 which was at the end of Hinault's career (ending in 1986), which was also the year that Campy C record became the top group. It's an interesting combination of events in one year. There are a lot of C record components for sale at this time. Nice group!


----------



## Montobo (Sep 6, 2012)

On the other hand, before then, Look used Columbus steel tubing, So if that is the case, go with Campy Super Record (the early super record, of course). Ebay has a lot of that group as well.

Ride far, ride safe.


----------



## SteveOz1 (Sep 5, 2012)

It is a steel lugged frame Reynolds 753 - I figured a Campy Record group would be the choice - didn't know if that bike was available as "frame only" or if it came built with a particular group..I am also somewhat bewildered by the Campy nomenclature ...Record, Super Record, C Record..Nuovo Record..


----------



## aptivaboy (Nov 21, 2009)

You got a Look 753? Drool!!!


----------



## Montobo (Sep 6, 2012)

You can see all the different Campagnolo record groups. 


1963 The Record rear derailleur (chromed bronze) is introduced
1966 The Nuovo Record rear derailleur is introduced. Eddy Merckx uses it for his first four Tour de France victories
1973 The Super Record Road and Track groups are introduced.
1983 Tullio Campagnolo dies on 3 February
1985 Campagnolo creates Delta brakes, with a parallelogram linkage to actuate the calipers.


Campagnolo Delta brake calipers from the 1980s.
1986 The re-designed Record road and track groupsets (also known as C-Record) are introduced, replacing Super Record as the top of range
1987 The last year of Super Record until 2008
1989 Campagnolo introduces a mountain bike groupset, which is heavier and less advanced than those by Shimano and SunTour.
1992 The ErgoPower levers are introduced, which combines brake lever and a shift lever to answer Shimano's STI levers
1993 Delta brakes are discontinued
1994 Last year of C Record. Campagnolo leaves the mountain bike components business
1995 Titanium Record. Group names on components are introduced
1997 9-speed shifting components are introduced
Ultra-Torque crankset with Hirth joint
1998 Next generation Ergo Levers, last year of Daytona group
1999 Carbon record. Record Carbon Ergo levers, Daytona group, and for the Record, Chorus and Daytona groups new hubs (much lighter than the old ones, axles made of aluminum alloy) are introduced
2000 10-speed shifting is introduced
2001 Carbon-fiber shifting levers for Record group, former Daytona group is now called "Centaur"
2004 Carbon-fiber cranks for Record and Chorus groups
2005 10-speed Centaur and Chorus shift and brake levers are introduced for flat bar road bikes
2006 Hollow external bearing crankset is announced
2007 10-speed Mirage and Xenon component groups and new Ultra-Torque components are introduced. Record hubs are now black, 20 g lighter and don't have greaseports any more
2008 11-speed Record, Super-Record, and Chorus groups are introduced
2009 Re-introduction of 11-speed Athena component group below Chorus in product line
2011 First electric 11-speed Super-Record group to be used at the Tour De France by Team Movistar


----------



## Montobo (Sep 6, 2012)

Look Reynolds 753 frame. Sounds GREAT, because 753 is heat treat, extra strong, so they can make it thinner and lighter and still plenty strong. So, the key question is, what is the year of manufacture?

I found this example of Look Reynolds 753 frame on a cycling forum.
https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2453/3948746821_b2cb1cb0d4_o.jpg

It has a Campagnolo C Record crankset. To my way of thinking, that is ideal. Also, it seems reasonable to use a Record Titanium. Although, I would pick the former due to its sheer beauty, if I could. It depends on what you can find/condition/affordability. When you start to buy the components, the buying process might make up your mind for you.

Cheers.


----------



## SteveOz1 (Sep 5, 2012)

Thats pretty much it - mine is smaller - a 55 top/56seat tube size (my size). I am struck by the light weight of the bike - the tubing must be paper thin - and the tubes are sooo skinny - I worry that might be to heavy for the frame... BTW thanks for the Campy listings - I am "spoiled" by modern shifting even though I have old school steel bikes...so I'm torn between the "original" equipment shifters (downtube friction) which I known from previous experience I do not enjoy riding or using a "not original" brifter style which I am accustomed to....will post a pic when I can figure out how........


----------



## SteveOz1 (Sep 5, 2012)

Yea - I lurk e-bay and have an ecclectic mix of steel frames that go through different stages of wrenching - the Look popped up with a reasonable BIN so I jumped


----------



## Montobo (Sep 6, 2012)

Oh, yes, shifting. I have a handbuilt Trek from 1980, equipped with Dura Ace and some Campy parts, too. So, the Dura Ace shifter (changeable from friction to index) is--well, it's quite new and virtually unused, but does a TERRIBLE job. It "fantom" shifts--totally unacceptable. It's worse than my old Peugeot PX-10. I am about to order the following "silver shifter" which is raved about by Grant Peterson (Rivendell Bikes), and he is a legend in the industry.
rivbike.com 
Silver Downtube Shifter Kits.
I have a Campy C ergo shifter, too, on my Merckx (Columbus tubing) but it would just seem wrong to put that on the old Trek. So, I stick with downtube shifting. Each to his own, but if I can get the shifting to work well, I don't at all mind reaching down. I say, when it works well, the learning curve is not too hard.

I notice too that modern freewheels (I'm talking about IRD brand) seem to be very nice, well-behaved, QUIET. It's nice to see the industry support (somewhat) retro bikes. 

IRD, a good brand with several options, also Velo Orange has interesting parts--which is off the subject.


----------



## pigpen (Sep 28, 2005)

I want pictures!


----------



## SteveOz1 (Sep 5, 2012)

think I figured out how to upload pics..


----------



## Montobo (Sep 6, 2012)

Oh, nice!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some of the Look frames are not aesthetic, in my opinion. Yours is beautiful. Great find. Enjoy the build up, stay in touch. Send a picture when it's done.

cheers.


----------



## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

I used to race on the Raleigh Team 753 bike that was on display in the shop where I worked. That was a generation older, a 1980, with all super record. It went 19 lbs with pedals and was a dream ride in every respect. 

Ah, nostalgia.


----------



## Michael Angelo (Mar 5, 2011)

Like This?

View attachment 264673


----------



## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Michael Angelo said:


> Like This?
> 
> View attachment 264673


Exactly like that. Wow. Brings a lump to my throat.


----------



## SteveOz1 (Sep 5, 2012)

dam that's pretty!


----------



## SteveOz1 (Sep 5, 2012)

picked up a Campy Daytona 10 spd group - think I will try it - even though it's not "period correct" I like my integrated shifting .....


----------



## gaucho777 (Aug 27, 2009)

SteveOz1, Congrats on your recent acquisition! I, too, am a lucky owner of a Bernard Hinault Look. As you may know, there were 250 of these frames made. What is your serial number (bottom of the BB)? The serial should be a letter followed by the frame size, another letter, and the frame number. For example, my serial is B57S194: 194th frame, size 57cm.

These frames were made in 1986 and the correct group would have been C-record.

I have a mix of Campagnolo (Chorus & C-record) and Mavic (headset, hubs) on mine. I love the way it rides. You are in for a treat!

IMPORTANT: 753 should not be cold-set, so I would advise you not to spread the rear triangle for a modern 130mm wheel.

I don't have enough posts to add a photo or link to this thread, but if you do a google search for "LOOK Equipe Bernard Hinault Reynolds 753 photobucket" you should find my photobucket album (user name: gaucho510) with pictures of my Look as it stands now, though it is about to get a makeover (new bars, saddle, tape, pedals, bottle cages).


----------



## SteveOz1 (Sep 5, 2012)

thanks for the info! I have seen pics of your bike - very nice.......:thumbsup: I think someone already "cold set" the rear - a modern 130 spaced wheel slips right in Will I have problems with it? I also read that the 753 has a rider weight of 150 lbs! I haven't seen 150 lbs since middle school.. The serial num is b56s136


----------



## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

150 lb limit? That'd be news to me.


----------



## Montobo (Sep 6, 2012)

Or maybe it was made at 130. 130 spacing came in at the end of the 80's. All you can do is inspect for cracks at the other end of the seat stays (bridge) and the chain stays. Steel, unlike carbon, lets you know when failure is in the future. Personally, I would not worry about it, but inspect periodically, nonetheless. 150 lb. maximum weight is simply ludicrous. What is your weight?


----------



## gaucho777 (Aug 27, 2009)

Thanks for the nice words, SteveOz1.

Montobo, it was definitely not 130mm to start. These frames were all made in 1986 and had 126mm spacing when new. FWIW, I happen to know a bit about the frame you linked to above in post #8 above. At the time those pictures were taken, it was a couple owners removed from it's current owner. That bike was bought by a collector/flipper in NC, who sold it to another owner in Utah, who subsequently sold it to its current owner in CA. The previous owner in UT reported that the frame accepted a 130mm rear wheel without much fuss, and the current owner is now running a modern drive train with it. 

All this is to say that I know using a 130mm rear wheel has been done without issues. I am not a frame builder (perhaps someone with 753 framebuilding experience might verify), but I'd leave it as is before trying to force it back to 126mm if it's already been cold-set. Just keep an eye out for any cracks at the ends of the seat and chain stays, as Montobo suggests.

You can ignore the 150-lb limit. Probably the result of lawyers.


----------



## Montobo (Sep 6, 2012)

Ride it, enjoy it, don't mess with it. We should all be keeping an eye on our bikes, anyway (as well as an attentive ear).


----------



## Chombi (Jun 23, 2012)

IIRC, 753 heat treated tubes *cannot* be cold set......they will always just spring back to their original spacing unless you really force it and break the bazing.......or the stays.....

Chombi


----------



## SteveOz1 (Sep 5, 2012)

Thanks all for the info - @ Gaucho - you say you know a bit about the frame I have - anything I should know?? I inspected the frame and see no cracks - there appears to to be a slight crease on the inside of the right chainstay at the base of the support stay behind the BB - it almost looks like the support stay was squeezed in between the two chainstays...the paint is not chipped away in that spot so I can't inspect the steel...I'm just worried about damaging such a cool vintage frame with my 240lb weight - however I'm in Fla and there are no hills/mountains to hammer on so .......I bought a ten speed Daytona group off the 'bay and am looking forward to trying it - this will be my first Campy equipped bike:thumbsup:


----------



## gaucho777 (Aug 27, 2009)

^Sorry if I was unclear. This thread is the first time I've seen your frame. I know a bit about the other frame pictured in the link posted by Montobo in reply #8 above (it's been discussed on another cycling forum I frequent). 

Have you taken an accurate measurement between the rear dropouts, not just experimenting with a wheel? I would definitely not risk using a wheel that does not fit a 753 frame. In this case, it should be 126mm, but it sounds like it may have been expanded by a previous owner. What Chombi says above re 753 frames springing back to their original shape correct (hey Chombi!). I'm sorry to say that I am not really qualified to offer any opinions on what you should do if the frame is no longer 126mm. 

Do you have any photos of the crease you are concerned about?


----------



## SteveOz1 (Sep 5, 2012)

Well I figure the rear spacing is now 130 soooooo there's not much else I can do other than build it and ride - Here it is with the Daytona 10 speed - obviously still in the "wrenching" stage hence no bar tape. The deformity is so small on the chainstay I can't pick it up with the camera - guess I will worry about it if it becomes a problem later on. I am a little torn on one thing - the current setup with Cinelli bar /stem is reeeeaally pretty - but not the best fit..I have used Nitto stems with their higher rise to get a better fit on other steel bikes ( ..I'm not quite as flexible as I used to be ) but they are not quite as esthetically pleasing....


----------



## Montobo (Sep 6, 2012)

"a slight crease on the inside of the right chainstay at the base of the support stay behind the BB - it almost looks like the support stay was squeezed in between the two chainstays..."

This description makes me think of the result of spreading the rear drop outs. The the chain stays at rear are under tension and the chain stays at front are under compression (as you say, "the support was squeezed in between ..." ). Steel is a good material and will indicate to you its intention. Keep inspecting it after every ride or more often as you are inclined. If every time it remains the same, then you build more confidence in it. I think you are in good shape. Ride, inspect, ride, etc.

Your build looks really nice!! Handsome bike.


----------



## Chombi (Jun 23, 2012)

Uhmmmm... I think you owe us a drive side shot of the finish bike Steve....pls,,,


----------



## SteveOz1 (Sep 5, 2012)

More /better pics once I finalize the bar/stem dilemma... !


----------



## Chombi (Jun 23, 2012)

Did you check out this stem made by Look?
VeloBase.com - Component: LOOK Ergostem
it might be adjustable enough to get the handlebar to near where you need it to be.
It might not look that great to some, but at least, it's a Look product that will still sit well with the frame.
I'd still consider it over a Technomic with that Look/BH frame

Chombi


----------



## SteveOz1 (Sep 5, 2012)

when it comes to appearances I am very shallow :lol: ha! I have a few stems laying around..will try a few combos - the Cinelli bar/stem that is on it now was the best looking by far...


----------



## aptivaboy (Nov 21, 2009)

There's one up on the Bay of Evil right now. If only it was my size. Sigh...


----------



## SteveOz1 (Sep 5, 2012)

didn't see it - there is a carbon KG196 with the same paint scheme though...


----------



## SteveOz1 (Sep 5, 2012)

changed the bar/stem to a Nitto arrangement I had laying around - it's a 120 length - longer than any other stem on my other bikes - I'm curious what the head tube angle is:confused5: it must be pretty slack for me to run that stem - it's more comfortable than the 100 Cinelli stem w bar arrangement previously used..


----------



## aptivaboy (Nov 21, 2009)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-LOO...976?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564d085078

Reynolds 753 Hinault model. Why couldn't it be a 60cm?


----------



## Montobo (Sep 6, 2012)

I cracked up when I read that--my size, too. A very nice frame.


----------



## Montobo (Sep 6, 2012)

It's interesting too that the one on ebay has the "Bernard Hinault farewell edition" (well, my translation), which I do not see on SteveOz1's frame, but otherwise they appear identical. SteveOz1's frame also looks in much better condition. It's fun to see these frames that are so much nicer to my eyes than many new frames today--which are lacking in aesthetic--overstated, poor taste, especially carbon fiber frames with extra extra jumbo font sizes. The frames themselves are not so bad aesthetically (although I love the look of the best steel frames the most), but the paint and decoration that go on CF frames can get really ugly. sigh. That's my taste, anyway.


----------



## aptivaboy (Nov 21, 2009)

I totally agree. A fine steel frame often had/has an elegant, almost understated look to it. Even the more garish '80s paint jobs seem to "fit" better than many of the carbon fiber paint schemes.


----------



## SteveOz1 (Sep 5, 2012)

@ aptivaboy - thanks for the e-bay link - missed that one - the seller only listed it in "vintage bikes" not "road bikes" put it on my watch list to see what it goes for..I noticed the same thing about the missing decal on my bike - probably will never find one of those..


----------

