# Tejay's mechanical



## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

Has there been any word on exactly what happened? Riblon seems to feel like Tejay would have probably won the stage were it not for his effort to chase back to him and Moser. 

Is it just me or has electronic shifting been screwing riders over lately?


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

thechriswebb said:


> Has there been any word on exactly what happened? Riblon seems to feel like Tejay would have probably won the stage were it not for his effort to chase back to him and Moser.
> 
> Is it just me or has electronic shifting been screwing riders over lately?


That's my impression too. Guess it's a new tech and they need to work out the bugs.
Still, people (read Andy) had problems with the old tech - so perhaps it's user error?


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## gofast2wheeler (Oct 13, 2011)

It happens, but Shimano DA Di2 cost TeJay the biggest win of his career. Probably won't hear anything about it. Shimano PR all over it!


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

I can't speak with too much authority on the matter because I have never actually ridden a bike with electronic shifting. I am wondering if it is an issue with an inability to make on the spot corrections when something does go wrong. Tejay was unable to turn over his cranks, which makes me think that there was some sort of tangle with his crankset, front derailleur, and chain. If this was due to some sort of bad positioning of his front derailleur, would it have been un-correctable because of not being able to manually adjust the front derailleur or move it out of the way to un-jam a stuck chain? Whatever happened, he couldn't fix it himself and had to change bikes. 

I recall Cadel losing a good bit of time in the Giro when some snow/ice prevented his rear derailleur from shifting, causing him to have to grind up the climb in a far bigger gear than would have been ideal.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

Also Greipel had to stop in Stage 1 when his electronic shifting stopped working. Same with Goss. 
Can We Please Stop Ruining Bike Races With Electronic Shifting? | Cyclocosm - Pro Cycling Blog
Cavendish having problems with hydrolic brakes. These may have all cause them a win. Now Tejay.

Is it really that obvious that these new technologies (add tubeless and road disk brakes if you must) make things that much better, or do they simply make relatively simple, mechanical bicycling systems deliberately expensive and so complicated that they require additional service by authorized bikeshops?


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## r1lee (Jul 22, 2012)

there has been problems with Mechanical and problems with Electronics.
This will never change and of course it always happens at the worst times.
What would we say if his mechnical failed? 

Riders get to choose which group they want on their bikes and that's the choice they live with if it malfunctions.

I've had di2 problems and have left me in gears that made my ride very unenjoyable. But the benefits of di2 outweighs the seldom issues.


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## Rick Draper (Jan 17, 2012)

gofast2wheeler said:


> It happens, but Shimano DA Di2 cost TeJay the biggest win of his career


You cannot possibly say that.


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## bballr4567 (Jul 17, 2012)

Didnt Griepels RD get ripped off or was that Kittel? 

Horrible for TJ though. Sorry to see him waste so much effort catching back up only to lose it 2k from the finish.


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## bmxhacksaw (Mar 26, 2008)

Well if all the wannabe "cyclists" out there could grasp the basic concept of mechanical shifters then maybe Shimano wouldn't feel the need to make them "idiot/WorldTour" proof. I've been riding/racing with a guy for about four years that I still have to say "Dude, get out of the small-small. The chain rub is driving me nuts back here and you're wearing out your drivetrain."


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

the way I see it, the mechanical components of Di2 can still fail in the same way the mechanical DA can fail. For example if you drop the chain.
But Di2 can also fail catastrophically electronic-wise in the way no mechanical system fails - if it fails to shift, it simply fails to shift. Period. 
This is apparently what happened to Greipel and possibly Goss earlier in the Tour.
I am not sure what exactly the benefits of Di2 that would outweigh losing the stage sprint due to electronic Di2 issues. Is it faster shifting? Not having to do the extra work of physically moving the lever?
Does that really "outweigh" having to stand on the side of the road waiting for another bike (if you a pro), or having to call wifey for pickup (if you are me)?
Regardless of precise details of Tejay's case, based on Greipel/Goss incidents I remain skeptical.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

r1lee said:


> there has been problems with Mechanical and problems with Electronics.
> This will never change and of course it always happens at the worst times.
> What would we say if his mechnical failed?
> 
> ...


Ironically, knowing someone who rides tons of miles a year with Ultegra di2...the gear requires less maintenance than cable gear. I suspect that the wrenches set it and forget it for the teams... As you should be able to.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

For what it's worth, Tejay is saying that his chain got stuck between the cassette and the chainstay and specifies that it was not due to mechanical failure..


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

*A few thoughts*

1: Froome, the leader of Shimano-sponsored Sky and who gets pretty much anything he wants regarding equipment, is using DuraAce 7900.
Not the current 9000. Everyone else on Sky is using 9000. Obviously Froome likes 7900 more. 
Why? 

2:On the first day everyone was gawking at Cavendish's hydraulic brakes. Including the Sky riders. There were pics of riders and mechanics from several other teams fascinated by the brakes. A few days later Cav crashes out apparently because of the brakes, Cav has a fit on the bus, and hasn't used them since.

3:Wiggo's rant at the Pinarello Giro party. He apologised for throwing his bike when the gears jammed, and said he still loves Pinarello. But then he said if anyone wants a Pinarello, they should get a Campagnolo equipped one, AND NOT the Shimano ones! (Procycling)

Maybe some of this new stuff needs some time to get the bugs worked out.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

thechriswebb said:


> For what it's worth, Tejay is saying that his chain got stuck between the cassette and the chainstay and specifies that it was not due to mechanical failure..


An overshift with an electronic system precisely designed to feather and compensate chainline automatically... And in what planet does TJ live that this not the definition of a mechanical?


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## Chainstay (Mar 13, 2004)

Greipel's derailleur was demolished as he took out Tony Martin in the stage 1 crash.


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## Chainstay (Mar 13, 2004)

On the video you can see that he is coming out of a corner and is probably up shifting to accelerate. The bike bounces a little which I assume caused the chain to jump and jam between the cassette and chainstay. I would guess that this could happen with most shifting systems, electronic or mechanical.


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## Squrkey (Mar 24, 2012)

Does the electronic shift maintain all of the potential failures of mechanical shift systems?

I think that the electronics only add points of failure to the shifting system. 

Electronic systems present a greater potential for failure than mechanical systems.

i am now going to find some headphone and helmet threads to bump up.


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## Chainstay (Mar 13, 2004)

Electronic systems avoid problems related to cable damage including damage to anchor points on the frame, cable breaks, slippage, housing damage and shifter failures. These are rare on well maintained race bikes but they are possible.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

I've been riding and racing on Di2 all year. It's reliable and forgiving of a lot of bad shifting habits. But. It's still quite possible to drop the chain or eff up a shift. 

According to Tejay it was a bumpy road, he was soft-pedaling while while braking while upshifting multiple cogs, that's a classic case of overshift and jam the chain. 

If you want to indict the industry's profit motive and electronic shifting as a case of profit over performance, feel free, but I don't think that's what cost Tejay 45 seconds today.


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## bluelena69 (Apr 19, 2005)

The problem, from my understanding, with electronic shifting is that the front derailleur is either down or up. If you drop a chain up front, there is no means to feather things back to normal.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

bluelena69 said:


> The problem, from my understanding, with electronic shifting is that the front derailleur is either down or up. If you drop a chain up front, there is no means to feather things back to normal.


This is incorrect.


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## gofast2wheeler (Oct 13, 2011)

Griepel's der was taken off by accident. Look at picture you can see chain with no slack being taken up, just hanging there. TJ was coached on his response because of endorsements. Complete failure of drive chain.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Marc said:


> An overshift with an electronic system precisely designed to feather and compensate chainline automatically... And in what planet does TJ live that this not the definition of a mechanical?


He's probably trying to soften the blow to the sponsors.


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## InfiniteLoop (Mar 20, 2010)

Yes, this can happen with any external gear system, mechanical or electronic. In a few weeks these guys will have new K-Edge chain catchers mounted to their seat stays and a few adventurous souls will be talking to Nuvinci about a lighter and more efficient version of the N360.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Tejay said: “The issue was that it was rough road, and with the tight corners, you had to shift pretty fast, and sometimes when you shift on a bumpy road, the chain hops off. It got caught between the seatstay and the cassette. It wasn’t an equipment failure, or the fault of the mechanic. It was just bad luck, it could happen to anyone.”


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## DonDenver (May 30, 2007)

looigi said:


> Tejay said: “The issue was that it was rough road, and with the tight corners, you had to shift pretty fast, and sometimes when you shift on a bumpy road, the chain hops off. It got caught between the seatstay and the cassette. It wasn’t an equipment failure, or the fault of the mechanic. It was just bad luck, it could happen to anyone.”


^too bad this was not the first response to this thread. Good lord...such leaps of wild speculation found within...albeit consistent entertainment from the usual bunch


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

I don't think it cost him the stage. Riblon beat TJ by 59sec and was riding like a mad man the last 2km. He probably still had some reserve in the tank.
TJ really struggled to the top. Even with the mechanical, he caught up and led the way up the climb. If anything, he went too soon.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

tlg said:


> I don't think it cost him the stage. Riblon beat TJ by 59sec and was riding like a mad man the last 2km. He probably still had some reserve in the tank.
> TJ really struggled to the top. Even with the mechanical, he caught up and led the way up the climb. If anything, he went too soon.


I can see that.....but he expended a ton of energy on that chase......without it, who knows how much he would have had at the top of the final climb. For 80% of that climb, he and Riblon were climbing at the same rate......I don't think Riblon catching him was about Riblon upping his pace as much as it was about TJ fading. 

Len


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

r1lee said:


> Riders get to choose which group they want on their bikes and that's the choice they live with if it malfunctions.


Actually that's incorrect, for the most part riders are expected to rirde what they are given withe sponsors dictating what parts they want show cased. Riders might, depending on the stage, get to pick out their wheels but unless you are some one like Cancellara you very likely don't get to refuse to ride electronic shifting if that is what the team is riding.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

Creakyknees said:


> This is incorrect.


So is it possible to "trim" a derailleur with electronic shifting? Like I stated before, I have not ridden with Di2 nor have I ridden with EPS. It has simply been my impression lately that there have been complaints with electronic. 

I am not a Luddite and am usually one of the first people to get frustrated when people will not accept technological improvements due to "tradition" or a simple unwillingness to accept something new. On the other hand, I have mechanical Ultegra on my road bike and Apex on my cyclocross bike and have never had anything but crisp, reliable shifting from both. I can see the merits when applicable to "if it's not broke, don't fix it." I find the mechanical groups easy to maintain and am comfortable that I can swing some ghetto temporary fixes to them if I do have a problem and need to get home. 

I know that people often argue that if it wasn't the best, the pros wouldn't use it. I also know that this is not always true and that sponsors have to be kept happy. Tom Boonen did not like the Eddy Merckx bikes he had to ride for a while. Wiggins prefers Campy but has to ride Di2. . 

So..

With cost irrelevant, do you really feel that Di2 is an improvement over the mechanical groups you used in the past?


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

thechriswebb said:


> With cost irrelevant, do you really feel that Di2 is an improvement over the mechanical groups you used in the past?


Actually I just made the switch on both my wife and I's cross bikes. The Sram stuff we were using kept having failures and rather than purchase new SRAM parts we decided to try Ultegra Di2.

Its not a world of difference but it does shift much much better under load and over rough ground. For my wife its makes more of a difference as she shattered her left wrist in a crash years ago and could not shift into the big ring from the drops withe mechanical with Di2 that's not and issue. It was a breeze to set up and so far has work flawlessly, provided it survives the cross season working well I can see wanting it on every one of my bikes.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

I'll be sending Tejay a dork disk in the mail, just haven't decided the color yet.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Sep 16, 2011)

bmxhacksaw said:


> Well if all the wannabe "cyclists" out there could grasp the basic concept of mechanical shifters then maybe Shimano wouldn't feel the need to make them "idiot/WorldTour" proof. I've been riding/racing with a guy for about four years that I still have to say "Dude, get out of the small-small. The chain rub is driving me nuts back here and you're wearing out your drivetrain."


I want to make some "Friends Don't Let Friends Cross-Chain" stickers and hand them out on weekends.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

thechriswebb said:


> So is it possible to "trim" a derailleur with electronic shifting? Like I stated before, I have not ridden with Di2 nor have I ridden with EPS. It has simply been my impression lately that there have been complaints with electronic.
> 
> I am not a Luddite and am usually one of the first people to get frustrated when people will not accept technological improvements due to "tradition" or a simple unwillingness to accept something new. On the other hand, I have mechanical Ultegra on my road bike and Apex on my cyclocross bike and have never had anything but crisp, reliable shifting from both. I can see the merits when applicable to "if it's not broke, don't fix it." I find the mechanical groups easy to maintain and am comfortable that I can swing some ghetto temporary fixes to them if I do have a problem and need to get home.
> 
> ...


Shimano di2 anyway auto trims chainline per shift. In the pacelines I've ridden on it is pretty damn cool.

If I had the money on hand I'd get a gruppo for my Seven.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

nOOky said:


> I'll be sending Tejay a dork disk in the mail, just haven't decided the color yet.


Do they make dork disks to protect the chainstay?


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## InfiniteLoop (Mar 20, 2010)

And now Gilbert seems to have had the same problem. BMC frames weird in the back triangle?


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## Tim Wilson (Feb 25, 2013)

InfiniteLoop said:


> And now Gilbert seems to have had the same problem. BMC frames weird in the back triangle?


That's what I'm thinking. It's a new design, too, and they're probably on early production units.

Someone else mentioned that Froome is on 7900. A number of the teams have been riding 7900 this year I think because there was not a 9000-compatible SRM crank until just within the last couple months.

-Tim


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## DonDenver (May 30, 2007)

The French camera clearly picks up the chain off the big ring at one point draped over the crank arm center. PG was trying to pick up the chain resting on the arm and drop it back on top of the big ring...hoping to give a half spin to once again catch teeth. It did appear something was caught or holding it in place. Fortunate that BMC team car came around for the rainbow jersey. It does look identical to the TJ fiasco...sans team car.


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## Tim Wilson (Feb 25, 2013)

By the way, I ride 9070 Di2 and it's very reliable with clean shifting. There's an adjustment mode that can be used on-the-fly for micro adjustments. The front der can be set up with tight clearances and still work flawlessly with the auto-trim. The one thing different from mechanical that can go wrong is if you lose a wire connection. That happened to me on the first long ride after building the bike. The right lever slipped and pull away from the wire, which I had installed without the recommended slack. Result: no rear shifting. Easily fixed though, and easily prevented if you build it right.

-Tim


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## Rick Draper (Jan 17, 2012)

It seems from the pictures some of Froomes bikes have DA 9070 on them and some have DA 7970.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

thechriswebb said:


> With cost irrelevant, do you really feel that Di2 is an improvement over the mechanical groups you used in the past?


Absolutely. YMMV.

I stopped using Campagnolo after buying a C-Record group with Delta brakes. Ugh.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Rick Draper said:


> It seems from the pictures some of Froomes bikes have DA 9070 on them and some have DA 7970.


He has 9000 brakes and wheels, 7970 gears.


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## Rick Draper (Jan 17, 2012)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> He has 9000 brakes and wheels, 7970 gears.


He has 9070 on one bike along with 9070 on his TT rig. You can see it in the pictures of him riding it.


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