# General racing questions



## BrownieSC (Oct 12, 2008)

I have had my road bike for maybe three months now (got it during the Tour de France). I have been racing on my mountain bike off and on for three years. So I enjoy competing and might consider racing on my road bike also. What kind of average speed should I have for entry level for women? I know terrain, distance,etc will effect that. one of my normal routes has about 1500 ft elevation gain (not much) over 28 miles and on my own I can average 16.5 mph
Maybe I ought to just wait till next spring, pick one and see what happens.


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## velogirl (Oct 14, 2005)

Hey Brownie! One of the biggest differences between mtn bike racing and road racing, is that most forms of road racing you will ride in a pack, so your skills really need to be solid, not only for your own safety, but for the safety of the women you race with.

where do you live. there are some great women's race development programs in different parts of the country.

every region is different. Northern California has a very strong, large women's bike racing population. Our CAT4 women's criteriums will average about 22-24mph. Road races will vary by terrain: flatter road races will average 18-22mph. hillier road races will be a bit slower.  to win a CAT4 women's time trial in our region you need to be able to pace at about 20-22mph.

hope this helps!


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## BrownieSC (Oct 12, 2008)

I'm in upstate South Carolina. I have done group rides with the local shops where I quickly learned to draft or get dropped. Sounds like I need to work my way up to the intermediate group before I consider a race. The beginner group usually averages 17-18mph that I currently ride with.
Thanks


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

One big difference in road vs mtb racing is that mtb racing tends to be a solo, set your own pace and go effort, while road racing is decided by the attacks and surges. So when you get dropped in a RR, it's because your top speed/power is not high enough - not because of your average speed.

With that in mind, if you want to get faster, do intervals of 4 minutes as fast as you can go, then recover and repeat. Also do short intervals of 30secs - 1 min, same idea - go as hard as you can for the duration, recover, repeat.

There's more of course, but a few weeks of those and you'll notice a difference.


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## bill (Feb 5, 2004)

you can't go by average speed. in racing, the draft is everything, and the average speeds you see are deceptive, both because drafting makes the average speed seem higher than the effort required to maintain it and because the average speed is rarely the story of the race.

see:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=146551

and, by the way, go for it. racing is a hoot.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

Yes! Please race! 

As a relatively new but pretty experienced (2 packed-full seasons) racer, the best way to learn how to race is to get out & race! You'll learn something new every time you toe the line (sometimes the hard way :blush2: ) Occasional fast-paced group rides are good practice for high-intensity riding if you're not used to doing intervals & such on your own. 

The biggest thing I've learned is to never doubt yourself or let yourself get intimidated. Have fun & keep us posted!


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## Kawboy8 (Feb 26, 2006)

My wife has decided to do a series over here in Germany next summer. So...I guess I will be doing it too. We have done tons of groups ride over this summer...but not really trained. She is pretty excited about doing it...and has already started training. And buying new stuff.


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## BrownieSC (Oct 12, 2008)

Buying new stuff is part of the fun! I got a really good wind breaker jacket and gloves Friday for riding in the cooling weather. You don't go as fast on your mountain bike and usually are sheltered by the woods. It is a LOT colder on the road. 

I'm starting to work on intervals now. I need to work on attacking the hills more also 
Thanks for the advice and encouragement!


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Also consider some weight training focusing on legs and core. When I ride / race with women in the pack, I see them get gapped in situations that require maximum power. A weight routine to build leg strength can help.


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## bill (Feb 5, 2004)

Creakyknees said:


> Also consider some weight training focusing on legs and core. When I ride / race with women in the pack, I see them get gapped in situations that require maximum power. A weight routine to build leg strength can help.


another perspective on weight training --
yes, work your core, although I don't think you need a weight room to do it (you can do lots of core work with just your body and gravity). 
weight training to build leg strength is controversial -- while many authorities recommend it, studies have failed to reveal any benefits to off the bike weight training for your legs. leg strength is really not believed to be a decisive factor -- endurance and neuromuscular skills far more so, both of which you do on the bike.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

The studies that are out there are inconclusive because of one or more reasons: 
A) They use subjects of various training states 
B) Their strength training programs are pretty lame
C) Use performance measurements that aren't going to see much change even if there WERE an improvement in strength

Also, there are very few that focus on women. I in my educated opinion, I firmly believe that weight training is vital in situations that Creaky described- short, high power bursts. Those times are incredibly important for racing, but I've yet to see a training study that uses sprint power or the like as a performance measurement. Most look at things like time to exhaustion, time over a given distance, etc.


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## function (Jun 20, 2008)

+1 on the weight training, or at least big gear intervals only until the rider gets enough strength in their legs. I have a very aerobically fit girlfriend but she can't even do 1 crank revolution in a 39-25 on a 15%+ hill whilst seated, clearly endurance doesn't come into play yet.


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## bill (Feb 5, 2004)

the theory (or, anti-theory, as the case may be) is that sprint power is largely a function of neuromuscular contraction speed, and not so much strength, isn't it?
and/or that specificity of training adaptation overrules -- lifting weights may make you better at lifting weights, but only sprinting is going to help with your sprinting?

I have to say, sprinters seem mostly born, not made. sprinters get better at positioning themselves, etc., which is learned behavior (even that to some extent seems determined by temperament) but it seems to me, anecdotally -- not scientifically, that you either have that pop or you don't.

I could be wrong. those are just my thoughts about it, based on what little I've read, seen, and processed. I've never much worked on a sprint, myself -- don't really have the temperament for that scrum. I either go sort of long and try to outlast the competition or be one of a couple of guys at the end.


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## bill (Feb 5, 2004)

why should she do weights rather than maybe do a 10% grade while seated, work up to a 15% grade?

More and more I think that specificity of training is an iron rule.

A friend's uncle was an old-timey baseball manager/trainer. He used to scoff at guys riding exercycles in the gym. He would say, I've been around baseball 60 years, and I've never seen anyone get to first base on an exercycle.

Of course, that's a nice anecdote that illustrates, but not necessarily illuminate. I still love that story, though.


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