# Floyd, Let the legend begin



## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

Where were you when men landed on the moon,

Where were you when JFK was shot,

Where were you when USA beat USSR in Olympic Hockey.

Where were you when Floyd Landis became a legend.

This is truly a historic day in sports.

https://velochimp.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/03/landis_pn.jpg


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## velomoto (Oct 6, 2005)

lets hope it is.... gooooo Floyd!!!!


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## Biketillbroke (Jun 29, 2006)

Incredible performance today, no doubt.


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## Alpedhuez55 (Jun 29, 2005)

He still needs to finish the job on Saturday, but that ride will go down as one of the greats. He has got to be the favorite again!!!


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

Provisional after today, unfreaking believable:

1 Oscar Pereiro (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears 80.08.49
2 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 0.11
3 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak 0.31
4 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile 2.29
5 Cadel Evans (Aus) Davitamon-Lotto 3.08
6 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 4.14
7 Cyril Dessel (Fra) AG2R-Prevoyance 4.24
8 Christophe Moreau (Fra) AG2R-Prevoyance 5.45
9 Haimar Zubeldia (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 8.16


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## Guest (Jul 20, 2006)

I saw it and I still don't believe it.


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## flyingscot (Jul 17, 2004)

The most awe-inspiring, humbling performance I have ever seen
A privalege to watch


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## Fogdweller (Mar 26, 2004)

Wow, that was an incredible ride. Interesting how those seconds that he lost in the time trials are now haunting him. Reminds me of Delgado's '89 deficit from the prologue that he chased for three weeks. Easy day tomorrow and a better than average TT on Saturday should sew it up. What an amazing tour this has been.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

*Floyd Superlatives*

- the greatest effort in TDF history

I wanna hear more...


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## OneGear (Aug 19, 2005)

a privilege to have woken up and seen it in a half awake state.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

OneGear said:


> a privilege to have woken up and seen it in a half awake state.



That made years of cable bills worth it.


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## rcnute (Dec 21, 2004)

Words aren't enough. Amazing. I wish more people could appreciate that one of the great sporting events in history took place today.


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## lithiapark (Apr 6, 2003)

*Thanks Floyd*

Thanks for having the guts to attempt the impossible. Congratulations for pulling it off. Are you still "racing conservatively?"


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## ziggurat22 (Jul 13, 2005)

Pure guts and courage.


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## svend (Jul 18, 2003)

lithiapark said:


> Thanks for having the guts to attempt the impossible. Congratulations for pulling it off. Are you still "racing conservatively?"


I'm speechless.......one for the ages


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## ridefar (Jun 27, 2005)

*SImply*

in awe of Floyd's performance today.

Not ashamed to admit I shed a small tear at the beauty, the majesty of the effort I just witnessed.

Truly a great day to be a cyclist, and a fan of professional cycling.

Thanks Floyd!!

:thumbsup:


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## crumjack (Sep 11, 2005)

One of the greatest performances I have ever seen in any sport. Ever!


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## slowmo1 (May 2, 2006)

Lance who?


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## Red Sox Junkie (Sep 15, 2005)

This tour is amazing. This sport is amazing. Makes me realized what we were missing during the "Armstrong Era". This is what the tour should be like every year. WOW!


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## smw (Mar 7, 2006)

brianmcg said:


> Where were you when men landed on the moon,
> 
> Where were you when JFK was shot,
> 
> ...



He truelly stamped his place in history today.

Sean


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## rash (Mar 3, 2005)

*Floyd Landis...*



francois said:


> - the greatest effort in TDF history
> 
> I wanna hear more...


The chief export of Floyd Landis is pain.
Floyd Landis does not sleep. He waits.
Floyd Landis doesn't have hair on his testicles, because hair does not grow on steel.
Floyd Landis doesn't read books. He stares them down until he gets the information he wants.


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## JohnnyCat (Jan 22, 2004)

*Not to rain on the parade, but let's get real*

Landis had an amazing day, one of the best in the history of cycling, but it was due to all the favorites not being there.

No Basso, No Ullrich, No Mancebo, No Vino, No Valverde

Landis was at the bottom of those leaders in terms of who was going to win the tour. With all of the true favorites gone Landis was the only true leader of the tour. Levi fell apart so we won't mention him.

Sastre and Kloden never expected to be the leaders of their teams. Menchov and Evans were leaders but before the removal of the true favorites they never expected even a podium spot. Pereiro winning a podium spot, give me a break. This whole tour can be summed up by saying that when top leutenants like Kloden and Sastre become the leaders there will be trouble chasing breakaways in the mountains due to the never ending poker games the gc teams must play. With Ullrich in there, Kloden would have rode tempo in the mountains, not the likes of Kessler. With basso, Sastre, and not the likes of Schleck. Evans and Menchov were then on par with Kloden/Sastre and couldn't afford to ride tempo. The dream of the podium has defeated all these teams. Landis was the only one with the right mentality: Win it all or go home a loser; for this he should be praised.

I'll say it again Mobile, CSC, Lotto, Rabbobank and maybe even Phonak should all wear dunce caps next year.

Landis had a great ride, but it was due to lack of leadership. Oh well, maybe after everybody gets done changing their panties will they realize this.

Landis should never go down as one of the greats.


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## GarbanzoBeanSnafu (Jun 27, 2005)

ridefar said:


> in awe of Floyd's performance today.
> 
> Not ashamed to admit I shed a small tear at the beauty, the majesty of the effort I just witnessed.
> 
> ...



INDEED! As did I. What an amazing performance. 

I'm a Floyd supporter and even I was more than a bit dismayed at the time loss yesterday. I thought it was unrecoverable in one-day's effort. Floyd has proven that smart, aggressive riding after "conservative" efforts can launch a man to the front. 

Floyd hails from my home county and I couldn't be more proud! Go Floyd!!!!!!! WOW!!!!!!


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

*A two-dvd set.*

Before, we had the old farts who could say, with some smuggness, "I saw the Lemond stage."
Now WE will be the old farts who can saw we saw "EFFIN'-A!" Floyd decide he still wanted to win. 

The thing about it is Lemond's ride only lasted 24 km, while those of us who chose to do so got so see this epic ride develop over two hundred kilometers of HC climbs, dangerous decents, breakaway groups, team interests adding to the drama.
Yesterday was considered epic, and it still is. But it speaks volumes that it will now only be considered backstory for what occurred today.
It certainly deserves to get shouted from the hills and spread across all the headlines, but it's nice to know that as a cyclists, we can appreciate it far more than those outside.


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## bc165 (Aug 5, 2003)

somewhere between...

just another day at the office

and,

every 500 years the phoenix rises from the ashes


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## MWT (Nov 12, 2002)

JohnnyCat said:


> Landis had a great ride, but it was due to lack of leadership. Oh well, maybe after everybody gets done changing their panties will they realize this.
> 
> Landis should never go down as one of the greats.


How about waiting until he retires before assigning his place in cycling history?


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## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

JohnnyCat said:


> Landis had an amazing day, one of the best in the history of cycling, but it was due to all the favorites not being there.
> 
> No Basso, No Ullrich, No Mancebo, No Vino, No Valverde
> 
> ...


JohnnyCat = DUMBAZZ


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## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

dude, shouldn't you be outside stealing ice cream from little kids, or something?

 



JohnnyCat said:


> Landis had an amazing day, one of the best in the history of cycling, but it was due to all the favorites not being there.
> 
> No Basso, No Ullrich, No Mancebo, No Vino, No Valverde
> 
> ...


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## JohnnyCat (Jan 22, 2004)

I bet it took you an awfully long time to think of such a grand insult. Ladies and gentlemen there is an Einstein among us.

By the way, nothing tastes better than free ice cream.


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## GarbanzoBeanSnafu (Jun 27, 2005)

JohnnyCat said:


> Landis had an amazing day, one of the best in the history of cycling, but it was due to all the favorites not being there.
> 
> No Basso, No Ullrich, No Mancebo, No Vino, No Valverde
> 
> ...


You're one of those folks who tries to compare things in relation to other, now unrelated events. The fact is, in many ways you are right. The lack of other contenders made it possible for Floyd. However, should we start throwing in LA's absence? How about Indurain? How about Hinault? Eddie? The fact is, a level playing field never truly exists. Riders must meet the challenges they face THAT DAY and overcome. Floyd has done that; and now he is once again a GC contender. An amazing finish.


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## rickreyn (Jul 27, 2004)

*A reason why the favorites not there...*



JohnnyCat said:


> Landis had an amazing day, one of the best in the history of cycling, but it was due to all the favorites not being there.
> 
> No Basso, No Ullrich, No Mancebo, No Vino, No Valverde
> 
> ...


If indeed these favorites were doping, they were not really operating on their own power. Those left appear clean, or at least unindicted, so perhaps the race is as close to pure as it can be. One would bring up Lance, but under microscopic scrutiny, he has withstood the allegations. Therefore, perhaps Landis is one of the greatest cyclists not on drugs of all time. I echo everyone's sentiments. In athletics, this is one of the greatest comebacks of all time, even if he doesn't win the yellow. Cycling is the most grueling sport imaginable where the mind plays extraordinary tricks. To get back on the saddle and ride to conquest on mountains equally as bad as the day before is simply mindboggling. This is the American spirit on display. :thumbsup:


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## erol/frost (May 30, 2004)

What a great ride, simply amazing.


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## goloso (Feb 4, 2004)

*Floyd Landis...*

"Floyd Landis is the father of every kid in this town!"

"Floyd Landis once showed me a video of him making love to my wife, and it was the most beautiful thing I ever saw!"

"His poop is used as currency in Argentina."

"He sweats Gatorade"

"He once breast-fed a flamingo back to health."

"I once saw him scissor kick Angela Landsbury."

"I once saw him eat a whole live chicken."

"He once punched a hole in a cow just to see who was coming up the road."

"He taught me how to make love to a woman, and how to scold a child."

"He did all the makeup on the 'Planet of the Apes' movie."

"He once inhaled a seagull."

"He killed Wolfman Jack with a trident."

"He uses the Shroud of Turin as a golf towel."

"He once ate the Bible while water skiing."

"He drives an ice cream truck covered in human skulls."

"He sired a baseball team.. an orchestra if you count the bastards!"

"He has dandruff the size of mice!"

"He jogged with a fridge on his back!"

"He's a ten foot tall beastman who showers in vodka and feeds his baby shrimp scampi."

"Did I ever tell you about the time Floyd Landis went hunting? Landis decides he's going to hunt down all four of the Banana Splits. He stalks and kills every one of them with a machette. They all begged for their lives...except Fleagle."

"Landis once hosted the Grammys and gave every award to Corey Hart."

"Landis' family crest is a picture of a baracudda eating Neil Armstrong."

"He breastfeeds John Madden."

"If you drop a phonograph needle on Landis' nipple, it plays the Beach Boys' 'Pet Sounds.'"

(Thanks SNL)


Way to go Floyd!
G


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## mackgoo (Mar 2, 2004)

Gee, do you think that all the big names that are not present because of the DOPING scandal are infact BIG names because they DOPE?
YA DOPE.


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

Well sure if Basso were there this never would have happened, but he wasn't. All they can do every year is race against the competition that is there. I thought from the start that Landis would be #3 with Jan and Basso in the race, it's not like he was just some crap scraped off somebody's shoe. Lance would never have won in 1999 if Pantani were there in form, but it was still an amazing victory. There are favorites missing every year but history rarely remembers those details.

What made today so incredible was not so much the competition but the events of the last 2 days combined. To go off the front on a suicide break today isn't even worth much mention, and the other teams obviously felt that way for a long time too, but to be able to go from completely DOA yesterday to holding his lead all the way to the line once the chase got going is where it really stood out.

Watching the stage I was remembering when Pantani tried a similar all or nothing break on the road to Joux Plane a few years ago, though his didn't work out.


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## sirthx (Dec 23, 2005)

From his body being 'dead' yesterday to cleaning everyone's clock today. As mentioned above one of the most amazing things I've ever seen. The official DVD just became a 'must purchase'. Win or lose now this is certainly one for the ages. Love how Ligget (and just about everyone else including me) thought there wasn't a snowball's chance in hell he could win now. Except for Bobke of course who almost looked foolish this morning saying he thought Landis could still win.


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## svend (Jul 18, 2003)

JohnnyCat said:


> No Basso, No Ullrich, No Mancebo, No Vino, No Valverde
> 
> Landis was at the bottom of those leaders in terms of who was going to win the tour. With all of the true favorites gone Landis was the only true leader of the tour.


Uh, Valverde was there but couldn't keep the rubber side down.....not really a top notch leader if ya can't stay upright.....also a stretch to say that Basso, Ullrich et al wouldn't have had their own problems.....crash, illness etc......your rant comes across as sour grapes from someone who was always picked last as a kid.


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## Tomwd3 (Apr 29, 2005)

*The Floyd*

Simply awesome. Who'd a thunk it possble? I can only think of 1 guy.:thumbsup: 
I'm really happy for Floyd cause after a brutal day yesterday, he carried himself with a champions class. (I think cyclingnews has a link to post race interview).
Saturday should be real interesting.


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## willus (Jun 19, 2006)

sirthx said:


> Except for Bobke of course who almost looked foolish this morning saying he thought Landis could still win.


Did you see Bobke's eyes after the race? Looked like he cried some tears of joy.


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## mmoose (Apr 2, 2004)

*Just 24k*



Jesse D Smith said:


> The thing about it is Lemond's ride only lasted 24 km


ok, I didn't SEE it in person, but I believe ABC's coverage was live that day. The TT was short, but the two had been jockying back and forth for days. The drama there built over the entire 3 weeks. Many more k than just 24. Just as everyone here was saying for 20 hours "FL is done for", everyone back then was saying for 48 hours, "the TT is too short to make up 43 seconds".

FL was spectacular today regardless of who was and wasn't there. I

(I did see GL in person the next year in Paris, just nowhere near as dramatic a finish)


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

The legend will start when and if he closes the deal on Saturday. If he doesn't, today's win for Landis was not too different from what the Chicken did yesterday. Both had bad days the day before, both escaped early, and both were solo most of the way. For Rasmussen, it won him best climber. If Landis's effort leads to a Tour victory, it'll be talked about for a long, long time. If it doesn't, then it's just another great solo effort on a hard stage. Seems like there's at least one of those every year.


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## JohnnyCat (Jan 22, 2004)

*Maybe I'm misunderstood*

What Landis did was truly amazing. That said, I jus don't look at it the same as everyone else. Many are claiming his effort makes him one of the best ever. That because he rode away from the entire field he must have sustained more watts in a single stage than anyone in the history of cycling. I credit Landis for not giving up. I credit him for realizing that in this tour ,unlike all the other tours in recent memory, all the teams were not doing even a half baked effort of controlling breakaways. Even his own team failed to lead the peloton. And call them what you will ,"dopers" or the "fastest men in cycling", they were not in the tour and this lack of leaadership made it possible for Landis to get back what he lost. Leutenants becoming leaders in the duration of 1 day lead to all these poker games being played. The headlines should read "Landis never gave up," not "Move over Eddy" or "Lance Who" or "Basso and Ullrich not needed because they would have lost to Landis by 10 minutes."

Maybe what you want me to say is: GO FLOYD. Would jumping on the bandwagon make you guys feel better.

How about the fact that my pick, Kloden, is probably doomed for 4th place? Are you guys feeling better. 4th is pretty good considering he was injured and didn't train much.
I bet Landis worked his ass off and for what? He will finish only 3 spots better than Kloden.

Do any of you think Landis this year would have beat the Kloden of 04? I don't think so.

Quite possibly Landis has the best mental resolve of the whole field, but not the best talent. Personally I thought it was crazy. Even when it worked I still thought it was crazy.
Even a nut can find a squirrel. Yes I know it's out of order. Think about it.


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## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

cyclodawg said:


> The legend will start when and if he closes the deal on Saturday. If he doesn't, today's win for Landis was not too different from what the Chicken did yesterday. Both had bad days the day before, both escaped early, and both were solo most of the way. For Rasmussen, it won him best climber. If Landis's effort leads to a Tour victory, it'll be talked about for a long, long time. If it doesn't, then it's just another great solo effort on a hard stage. Seems like there's at least one of those every year.


You really can't compare what rasmussen did. He had no hopes of winning the Tour even after his win that day. The peleton let him go. They were not worried about him at all. 

The fact that the peleton and all of the contenders were after Landis all day, yet they could only take back a few minutes of his 9 minute lead. That is unbelieveable.


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## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

JohnnyCat said:


> What Landis did was truly amazing. That said, I jus don't look at it the same as everyone else. Many are claiming his effort makes him one of the best ever. That because he rode away from the entire field he must have sustained more watts in a single stage than anyone in the history of cycling. I credit Landis for not giving up. I credit him for realizing that in this tour ,unlike all the other tours in recent memory, all the teams were not doing even a half baked effort of controlling breakaways. Even his own team failed to lead the peloton. And call them what you will ,"dopers" or the "fastest men in cycling", they were not in the tour and this lack of leaadership made it possible for Landis to get back what he lost. Leutenants becoming leaders in the duration of 1 day lead to all these poker games being played. The headlines should read "Landis never gave up," not "Move over Eddy" or "Lance Who" or "Basso and Ullrich not needed because they would have lost to Landis by 10 minutes."
> 
> Maybe what you want me to say is: GO FLOYD. Would jumping on the bandwagon make you guys feel better.
> 
> ...


My prior diagnosis still stands:

JohnnyCat = DUMBAZZ


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## jasondean (Oct 8, 2005)

*I knew it...*

Ha I knew I set my VCR this a.m. for the first time the whole Tour for a reason. Enter one inspirational ride to watch perched on my trainer this winter. GO FLOYDIS! GO FLANDIS! ROCK THAT HIP!


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

brianmcg said:


> You really can't compare what rasmussen did. He had no hopes of winning the Tour even after his win that day. The peleton let him go. They were not worried about him at all.
> 
> The fact that the peleton and all of the contenders were after Landis all day, yet they could only take back a few minutes of his 9 minute lead. That is unbelieveable.


If they were after him all day, he would never have built a 9-minute lead. No one really reacted until the valley before Joux-Plane, where CSC and T-Mobile woke up finally. There will be some second-guessing on those team buses tonight. 

It's easy to forget that, like Rasmussen, everyone (with the exception, maybe, of Floyd himself) thought Landis was finished before he broke away.


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## framed (Oct 25, 2005)

*In tomorrow's edition of L'Équipe...*



rickreyn said:


> If indeed these favorites were doping, they were not really operating on their own power. Those left appear clean, or at least unindicted, so perhaps the race is as close to pure as it can be.


Reporter: "Gilberto Simoni, what do you think of the way Floyd Landis rode today?"
Simoni: "He seems like an extra-terrestrial."


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*ok*



JohnnyCat said:


> What Landis did was truly amazing. That said, I jus don't look at it the same as everyone else. Many are claiming his effort makes him one of the best ever. That because he rode away from the entire field he must have sustained more watts in a single stage than anyone in the history of cycling. I credit Landis for not giving up. I credit him for realizing that in this tour ,unlike all the other tours in recent memory, all the teams were not doing even a half baked effort of controlling breakaways. Even his own team failed to lead the peloton. And call them what you will ,"dopers" or the "fastest men in cycling", they were not in the tour and this lack of leaadership made it possible for Landis to get back what he lost. Leutenants becoming leaders in the duration of 1 day lead to all these poker games being played. The headlines should read "Landis never gave up," not "Move over Eddy" or "Lance Who" or "Basso and Ullrich not needed because they would have lost to Landis by 10 minutes."
> 
> Maybe what you want me to say is: GO FLOYD. Would jumping on the bandwagon make you guys feel better.
> 
> ...


Its not a band wagon here man. Look I saw the 89 tdf and ONLY 24 k. It was a freakish race to the end and look, the fact is he pulled everything and 9 seconds in the FINAL TT. It was a freaking miracle pulled by a man who by and large nearly did it solo using aero bars when NOBODY else was thinking of it..

As to the Kloden of 04, how about the Eddy of 69? Man, he would be datinmg his third wife by the time those folks rolled intoday. Barring a time machine, Floyd put out a freaky ride which had most if not all in the peleton really impressed. I guess you missed it.


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## mhc (Oct 15, 2005)

*Did you see his wife?*

She looked so happy and proud it made me cry. Seriously.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

JohnnyCat said:


> What Landis did was truly amazing. That said, I jus don't look at it the same as everyone else. Many are claiming his effort makes him one of the best ever. That because he rode away from the entire field he must have sustained more watts in a single stage than anyone in the history of cycling. I credit Landis for not giving up. I credit him for realizing that in this tour ,unlike all the other tours in recent memory, all the teams were not doing even a half baked effort of controlling breakaways. Even his own team failed to lead the peloton. And call them what you will ,"dopers" or the "fastest men in cycling", they were not in the tour and this lack of leaadership made it possible for Landis to get back what he lost. Leutenants becoming leaders in the duration of 1 day lead to all these poker games being played. The headlines should read "Landis never gave up," not "Move over Eddy" or "Lance Who" or "Basso and Ullrich not needed because they would have lost to Landis by 10 minutes."
> 
> Maybe what you want me to say is: GO FLOYD. Would jumping on the bandwagon make you guys feel better.
> 
> ...


The point is that he was a favorite going in, had the MJ, lost it by 8 minutes, and still powered away from the other GC hopefuls on a very long attack and breakaway. I don't think that means he is the best of all time, however for the circumstances the effort today is one of the best of all time. 

Trust me, those other GC contenders didn't want Landis to gain time on them. It is obvious from the past couple years that he is by far a strong TTer than the others. 

They were powerless to stop him though. That's what makes it great.


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## DonutKing (Jul 20, 2006)

ridefar said:


> in awe of Floyd's performance today.
> 
> Not ashamed to admit I shed a small tear at the beauty, the majesty of the effort I just witnessed.
> 
> ...


When I first started riding back in '90 I would imagine I was LeMond when I needed an extra mental boost on a hard ride. In the late 90's/early2000's it was Armstrong. So who else is now going to "ride like Floyd" after today? That was a truly inspiring effort. It will become legendary if he wins in Paris as a result of it.


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## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

Actually JohnnyCat made at least one good point--there has been much confusion in the peleton and that is because the roles that so many riders expected to play CHANGED the day before the race begun, and that has played a major role in the Tour--not just the guys that aren't here.
If you haven't seen it, watch the video of Landis talking to the press yesterday--pure class, and it makes today's stage so much more inbelievable

B21


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

DonutKing said:


> When I first started riding back in '90 I would imagine I was LeMond when I needed an extra mental boost on a hard ride. In the late 90's/early2000's it was Armstrong. So who else is now going to "ride like Floyd" after today? That was a truly inspiring effort. It will become legendary if he wins in Paris as a result of it.


I already scheduled my gratuitous hip replacement surgery and I plan to buy the Kid Rock Greatest Hits collection tonight.


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## svend (Jul 18, 2003)

JohnnyCat said:


> *I bet Landis worked his ass off and for what? He will finish only 3 spots better than Kloden.*
> 
> Do any of you think Landis this year would have beat the Kloden of 04? I don't think so.



That is some funny shite....sarcasm is tough to detect at times but your gift of comedy is pretty good.

Do any of you think that Kloden of this year could have even held the wheel of Eddy of '70-71??

No one remembers the also rans. Your boy Kloden is now an also ran.


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## surista (Mar 20, 2006)

Landis is my new hero. I was so impressed with his press conference yesterday after he bonked - he was total class. He made no excuses, thanked his teammates, and said that he was was going to keep fighting. It could have been easy to just hang up the cleats, knowing he has hip surgery waiting for him. Instead, he took off, went alone almost the entire stage, absolutely no help once he left his teammates behind - and no one else was able bring him back. I don't even care if he seals the deal or not on Saturday; I had goose bumps watching one of the greateste sporting moments I've ever seen. Today's stage gets permanent keep status on my Tivo. 

Every one of those French editors that said Landis didn't have 'panache' can suck it up and kiss my fat white ass. I hope every one of them apologizes, and thanks Landis for allowing us a glimpse into the heart of a true champion, win or lose. 

And JohnnyCat, you're a ****ing egghead. Go play in the street why don't you, and stop pissing on our parade just because you can't appreciate what everyone else around you is calling one of the great triumphs of the human spirit. Wanker.


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## Buck Satan (Nov 21, 2005)

JohnnyCat said:


> I bet Landis worked his ass off and for what? He will finish only 3 spots better than Kloden.


When you win do you think "Oh, that's only 3 spots better than 4th."? That's the kind of inane reasoning that makes me think you've not only never won, but that you've never even tried. You have confirmed yourself as an idot, now run along!


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*sure*



svend said:


> That is some funny shite....sarcasm is tough to detect at times but your gift of comedy is pretty good.
> 
> Do any of you think that Kloden of this year could have even held the wheel of Eddy of '70-71??
> 
> No one remembers the also rans. Your boy Kloden is now an also ran.


Sure he would have held his wheel and promptly given it back to him after pulling it out of his a55...


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*only 3 spots*



Buck Satan said:


> When you win do you think "Oh, that's only 3 spots better than 4th."? That's the kind of inane reasoning that makes me think you've not only never won, but that you've never even tried. You have confirmed yourself as an idot, now run along!


Yeah, its only 1st or 4th, virtually the same......NOT


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## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

cyclodawg said:



> If they were after him all day, he would never have built a 9-minute lead. No one really reacted until the valley before Joux-Plane, where CSC and T-Mobile woke up finally. There will be some second-guessing on those team buses tonight.
> 
> It's easy to forget that, like Rasmussen, everyone (with the exception, maybe, of Floyd himself) thought Landis was finished before he broke away.


Well no, Rasmussen was never a contender, ever. Floyd was marked as soon as he broke away. They were definitely stupid for letting him go, for even a second.


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

brianmcg said:


> Well no, Rasmussen was never a contender, ever. Floyd was marked as soon as he broke away. They were definitely stupid for letting him go, for even a second.


But the fact is that they let him go, up to nine minutes before they started reeling him back. They cut three minutes out of that before the last climb (over what seemed like about a ten-minute stretch). If they start sooner, possibly on that little Cat 3 climb, it might have been a different story today. Riis shouldn't be ticked off at anyone but himself after today.

Not that it should diminish what Floyd accomplished today, or what he will have accomplished if he wins Saturday. But if he doesn't close the deal, I don't think that this Tour will leave him or today's effort as "legendary." Memorable, yes. Great, yet. But we get memorable and great nearly every year from the Tour. It's one thing that makes cycling, as a sport, so compelling.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

JohnnyCat said:


> Do any of you think Landis this year would have beat the Kloden of 04? I don't think so.


Yeah actually I do. Kloden at the time rode most of the race as a protected rider while Floyd work setting tempo a tempo that at times Kloden had trouble with. So the 06 Floyd beats the 04 Kloden. 

And really after today Floyds ride goes down as one of the best in recent history - prolly since Pantini took off and put the wood to Ullrich in 98. If he wins the tour Sat he will go down as one of the best for turning everything around with a great ride. To come back from the mental beat down he took yesterday and attack took alot of guts to make it stick took more focus that most people can muster ever. 

As far as the other not being that so it does not count. Bullsh!t, you race who shows up and when you win you win there are no qualifiers.

Your statmenst do come across as sour grapes.


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## PdxMark (Feb 3, 2004)

*His tactics too*

In addition to his amazing ride today, FL's tactics have been almost perfect throughout the Tour. 

The gift to Oscar will likely do nothing to FL's final podium standing and has done alot to get OP's team pace-making up front for days, giving Phonak alot of rest along the way. Floyd has wasted almost no effort at any stage, riding ahead when he could make time on those who mattered, and sucking wheel when an attempt to ride away would be wasted effort. Even on his bad day he hid it long enough that his beating didn't start until the last climb. 

Tomorrow could be the most interesting transition stage in a long time...


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

cyclodawg said:


> But the fact is that they let him go, up to nine minutes before they started reeling him back. They cut three minutes out of that before the last climb (over what seemed like about a ten-minute stretch). If they start sooner, possibly on that little Cat 3 climb, it might have been a different story today. Riis shouldn't be ticked off at anyone but himself after today.


Funny, I remember the contenders going with him, then getting dropped.

If you call that "letting him go" then you're right on the money.

Silas


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## CRM (Feb 5, 2004)

cyclodawg said:


> Not that it should diminish what Floyd accomplished today, or what he will have accomplished if he wins Saturday. But if he doesn't close the deal, I don't think that this Tour will leave him or today's effort as "legendary." Memorable, yes. Great, yet. But we get memorable and great nearly every year from the Tour. It's one thing that makes cycling, as a sport, so compelling.


My thoughts exactly. He's gotta win or else this'll just be a little known footnote in the years ahead. If he wins, it goes down as one of the legendary Tours and takes its place among the great comebacks of all time.


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## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

SilasCL said:


> Funny, I remember the contenders going with him, then getting dropped.
> 
> If you call that "letting him go" then you're right on the money.
> 
> Silas



Exactly.

I think I remeber Ullrich letting Armstrong go many times. I guess he figured he would reel him in eventually. Why did he do that?


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

SilasCL said:


> Funny, I remember the contenders going with him, then getting dropped.
> 
> If you call that "letting him go" then you're right on the money.
> 
> Silas


They chose not to follow his acceleration. Considering that it was the first of four tough climbs on the day, it was probably a wise choice. No reason to burn matches that early. 

But letting a 2 minute gap become 9 minutes before reacting is another thing. They did let him go; anyone of them could have followed that attack that early in the ride. The wise thing to do was to let it go, because he was 8 minutes back and not a threat at the time. When he got 3-4 minutes, he became a threat, and he should not have been let go beyond that. 

It's not as if he was overpowering a peloton doing heavy work in building his 9 minutes.


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## svend (Jul 18, 2003)

brianmcg said:


> Exactly.
> 
> I think I remeber Ullrich letting Armstrong go many times. I guess he figured he would reel him in eventually. Why did he do that?


Yeah, what WAS up with that. 

Ullrich = bad tactician for not reeling in Armstrong all those years. Just let him go. Weird now that I think back.


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## svend (Jul 18, 2003)

cyclodawg said:


> They chose not to follow his acceleration. Considering that it was the first of four tough climbs on the day, it was probably a wise choice. No reason to burn matches that early.
> 
> But letting a 2 minute gap become 9 minutes before reacting is another thing. They did let him go; anyone of them could have followed that attack that early in the ride. The wise thing to do was to let it go, because he was 8 minutes back and not a threat at the time. When he got 3-4 minutes, he became a threat, and he should not have been let go beyond that.
> 
> It's not as if he was overpowering a peloton doing heavy work in building his 9 minutes.


They gambled that he would crack again. They lost. That's racing.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

francois said:


> - the greatest effort in TDF history
> 
> I wanna hear more...


A great effort, yes - nearly as great as LeMond's ITT comeback win in 1989.


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

PdxMark said:


> In addition to his amazing ride today, FL's tactics have been almost perfect throughout the Tour.
> 
> The gift to Oscar will likely do nothing to FL's final podium standing and has done alot to get OP's team pace-making up front for days, giving Phonak alot of rest along the way. Floyd has wasted almost no effort at any stage, riding ahead when he could make time on those who mattered, and sucking wheel when an attempt to ride away would be wasted effort. Even on his bad day he hid it long enough that his beating didn't start until the last climb.
> 
> Tomorrow could be the most interesting transition stage in a long time...


I have to disagree on the tactics. It'd conceivable that Landis could have a mechanical or another meltdown on Saturday and lose the whole race to Pereiro by a few seconds. Letting a climber as seasoned and proven as Pereiro back into the race was a horrible, horrible strategic decision (made not just by Phonak, but by CSC, T-Mobile, Lotto, etc also). Pereiro's team so far has only had to control as far as pacemaking goes for a couple days, only one of them a flat stage. 

If Floyd had used a little more effort on his good days, and perhaps attacked his rivals on a mountain stage before today, he would be in much better position probably than he is today. Remember that on the day Lance bonked in '90 on Joux-Plane, he already had about 7 minutes on Ullrich because of prior efforts and still had a comfortable lead after the stage. Landis certainly has not taken to strategically easy path to the Tour victory. If he wins the Tour, it will be on pure guts, will, and training. Not strategy. The strategy could use some work.


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## JohnnyCat (Jan 22, 2004)

*Some of you have no concept of sarcasm or playing devil's advocate*

I agree with what many of you are saying, but I thought the Landis best ever claims needed to be reined in a bit.

I'm betting none of you enjoy a good comedy routine. I also bet all your favorite movies are contrived underdog stories. Seabiscuit is probably considered cinematic gold in your households. I also bet that most of you fall for the illusion that if you try really really hard you will succeed. Landis had heart, skill, and a whole lot of luck. The stars aligned and yes Landis showed that anything can happen. I was just trying to demystify this so called miracle by explaining why it took place. A lot had to do with the dopers being removed. And thank God for that because most importantly we must protect the children. It's nice to know we are all watching a 100% dope free tour.

I still hold the belief that Kloden 04 beats Landis 06. Grant me that one. 2nd to LA, beat Basso, and Ullrich Whatever, it was just meant to piss Floyd fanatics off. I know. You don't win silver you lose gold. You dorks have any other clich'es I should know about?

Frankly it just doesn't matter what history or the majority of people remember in years to come. Often the majority is wrong or has bad taste. If Landis loses the tour it still shouldn't take away from what he did today.

I am fine agreeing to disagree. Tis better to debate a problem and not solve it than to solve a problem and not debate it.


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

svend said:


> Yeah, what WAS up with that.
> 
> Ullrich = bad tactician for not reeling in Armstrong all those years. Just let him go. Weird now that I think back.


Come on. Apples and oranges. Those Armstrong attacks all came on the final ascent after six hours of racing. 

Landis attacked today about 50 kilos into the race on the first of four climbs. Only an idiot GC contender would follow a guy 8 minutes back that early in the race.


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## framed (Oct 25, 2005)

JohnnyCat said:


> ...You dorks have any other clich'es I should know about?


Here's one for you: "And thank God for that because most importantly we must protect the children."


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## PdxMark (Feb 3, 2004)

cyclodawg said:


> Pereiro's team so far has only had to control as far as pacemaking goes for a couple days, only one of them a flat stage.
> 
> If Floyd had used a little more effort on his good days, and perhaps attacked his rivals on a mountain stage before today, he would be in much better position probably than he is today. Remember that on the day Lance bonked in '90 on Joux-Plane, he already had about 7 minutes on Ullrich because of prior efforts and still had a comfortable lead after the stage. Landis certainly has not taken to strategically easy path to the Tour victory. If he wins the Tour, it will be on pure guts, will, and training. Not strategy. The strategy could use some work.


I agree that it's better to build-up a huge margin early in the Tour and then sit back for the ride with your team out front. Lance & Postal/Discovery could do that, but I suspect it wasn't a real option for Floyd, or at least it was an uncertain one. 

My opinion is that even a couple days of relative rest for his team left them stronger for days that mattered. Floyd's Bad Day showed that he had already pushed his body to its limit... In a race where winning margins are based on a tenth or hundredth of a percent of increased efficiency, speed, whatever, it makes sense to save energy whenever possible. So long as Floyd finishes above Oscar in Paris, it seems hard to disparage tactics of a guy who rode his limits with a team that was not the strongest in the race -- though Axel is now a Top Tier Super Domestique by any measure...


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## Icefrk13 (Jul 2, 2004)

What I want to know is where the hell all of the DS's have gone. They are teh ones that truley control most of the teams. This was an F***ing amazing Ride and it should be put down in the books as one. But when assigning blame for the control issues of the peleton, lets not for get those guys in the car.


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## serious (May 2, 2006)

PdxMark: *In addition to his amazing ride today, FL's tactics have been almost perfect throughout the Tour ...... *

It is rather silly to say that when Landis gave almost 30 minutes to a very strong rider, then bonked yesterday and had to make a huge effort to climb back to contention today. Sounds to me like a tactical error because no sane person would plan all that.

Regardless, his "come back" is fantastic and will be remembered for a long time if he manages to win the tour. I had no favorites, but Landis has my cheers now.


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## Dropped (Jan 22, 2003)

That was an absolutely fantastic ride today. He showed incredible courage to go after it like that. I was in awe, just kind of mumbling "I can't f--ing believe it" over and over again for about two hours.

I've enjoyed watching this tour more than any I can remember.


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## Howzitbroke (Jun 1, 2005)

Floyd, You da man! I started watching early and simply couldn't believe they let you get away at all. Dude you have some balls to go that early. It was just crazy enough to work. Then I just sat there in silence willing you to keep crushing down on those pedals. That last decent was simply the most spine tingling sporting event I have ever seen on the tube. I was jumpin' around the house today screaming at the TV when you crossed the line. F****NG Hell Yeah! What a ride! What a ride! Now finish them off!


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## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

It will go down as a great stage victory and be deservedly remembered in the annals of le Tour. I only offer a little perspective. The only thing that made this great ride necessary and, perhaps, possible was Landis' horrible performance the day before. Landis may have two of the most memorable performances in Tour history for opposite reasons. I admire his guts and tenacity but question his tactics. The team has also been lacking at times.

The Armstrong years were boring for a reason. Armstrong seldom had a tactical lapse and never as big as Landis and his team have had in this Tour. Armstrong was superior to all comers, he trained smarter and harder. Armstrong had a stronger team. Armstrong had a better team manager. Add this up and you've got a boring winner, seven times.

I'm sure I'll get flamed because some will feel I'm throwing a wet towel on the party but that's the way I see it.


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## svend (Jul 18, 2003)

serious said:


> PdxMark: *In addition to his amazing ride today, FL's tactics have been almost perfect throughout the Tour ...... *
> 
> It is rather silly to say that when Landis gave almost 30 minutes to a very strong rider, then bonked yesterday and had to make a huge effort to climb back to contention today. Sounds to me like a tactical error because no sane person would plan all that.
> 
> Regardless, his "come back" is fantastic and will be remembered for a long time if he manages to win the tour. I had no favorites, but Landis has my cheers now.


I would say that Phonak was spot on. T-Mobile is the team that effed it, if all plays out, they will be off the podium because they allowed the break such time.......


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## Buck Satan (Nov 21, 2005)

Mel Erickson said:


> Armstrong had a stronger team. Armstrong had a better team manager.


I'm not really making a point here, just noting something:
Disco is the _same team_ this year, and they're in absolute _ashes_.


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## rule (Dec 2, 2004)

For as long as there are mountains in the TDF they will be talking about that stage. Floyd made his mark in cycling history.


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## Miles E (Jul 31, 2003)

JohnnyCat said:


> I bet Landis worked his ass off and for what? He will finish only 3 spots better than Kloden.


Jan, is that you?  

On a day filled with hyperbole, I mean it when I say this has to be the dumbest statement I have ever heard.


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## svend (Jul 18, 2003)

Mel Erickson said:


> Armstrong had a *stronger* team.


In '99?? Better go back and watch that one...


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## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

Far from the same team without a leader. In fact, they've never been the "same team". Each year riders have left and been replaced and this years no different. There was no replacement for Armstrong to be hired. Given a strong team leader, like any of the top contenders, I believe Disco would have been considered as strong a team as any in the race. Take away the team leader from Phonak and Disco (take your pick) and Disco is stronger. Problem is they have no one to ride for. No purpose in the race.


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## ChuckUni (Jan 2, 2003)

cyclodawg said:


> Landis attacked today about 50 kilos into the race on the first of four climbs. Only an idiot GC contender would follow a guy 8 minutes back that early in the race.


Not buying it. They let a guy go that can climb, does great out on his own, and can desend like a madman...all on a stage that would fit a person like that 100% and make it very hard for the peloton to make time on. Plus, he was motivated. Long shot maybe, but still a chance. IMO the GC contenders are idiots for letting him go, but judging by how hard people were cracking at the end, I don't think they had much of a choice.


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## vantongerloo (Aug 26, 2005)

I am renaming my dog, little boy and wife "Floyd".


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## goloso (Feb 4, 2004)

*No, everyone understands...*

...you are making an impossible comparison between Landis and riders not even in the race as if they were guarnteed to win. What if their GO juice hadnt shown up? What if they crashed out?

By your flawed reasoning none of these riders will ever be great because they never beat Merckx (in case you didnt know Axel's dad used to race and was not bad himself).

And by the way, I dont think anyone here cares what you think, I believe they disagreed with your dumb arguement.

sorry for feeding the troll.

-G


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## MellowDramatic (Jun 8, 2006)

serious said:


> PdxMark: *In addition to his amazing ride today, FL's tactics have been almost perfect throughout the Tour ...... *
> 
> It is rather silly to say that when Landis gave almost 30 minutes to a very strong rider, then bonked yesterday and had to make a huge effort to climb back to contention today. Sounds to me like a tactical error because no sane person would plan all that.



Yes, however balls > tactics.


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## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

Then can I go back and pick a specific year for Phonak? Overall, Svend, overall. We're talking in general here. How about 2005, or 2004, or 2003, or 2002, or 2001, or 2000? Care to pick one of those years too? Average 'em out if you want. Disco/Postal still wins as having the stronger team. My point was that Armstrong won, and didn't have to really pull off a stage like Landis did, because of many combined strengths. Who knows if Armstrong could have pulled off an epic stage like Landis'. We'll never know because he never had too.


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## zooog (Mar 18, 2002)

WOW...what a performance. Cannot wait for Saturday...hell lets just skip Friday...


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## Mdeth1313 (Nov 1, 2001)

joehartley said:


> Yes, however balls > tactics.



This is not always true. If it was, Vinikourov would have won at least 2 TdF's!

Don't worry, I also love Lloyd Flandis- especially after today-- it figures, I had to watch him crack, the whole stinking stage yesterday and today I had to leave w/ about 40k left for an ultrasound on my wife to check out my future child-- 

had to wait unitl 3:30PM to find out what happened.


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## cadence90 (Sep 12, 2004)

zooog said:


> WOW...what a performance. Cannot wait for Saturday...hell lets just skip Friday...


Let's NOT! In fact, let's extend this Tour for another 3 weeks. Great stuff!


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## MLE (Jul 11, 2006)

JohnnyCat said:


> II still hold the belief that Kloden 04 beats Landis 06. .


Kloden? He's in the race? I thought he retired last year.


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## Mdeth1313 (Nov 1, 2001)

Mel Erickson said:


> Then can I go back and pick a specific year for Phonak? Overall, Svend, overall. We're talking in general here. How about 2005, or 2004, or 2003, or 2002, or 2001, or 2000? Care to pick one of those years too? Average 'em out if you want. Disco/Postal still wins as having the stronger team. My point was that Armstrong won, and didn't have to really pull off a stage like Landis did, because of many combined strengths. Who knows if Armstrong could have pulled off an epic stage like Landis'. We'll never know because he never had too.



You really cant compare--- Armstrong had Heras for some of those years and Ekimov before he turned 37,38,39,40? There was no one to ride for, no strategy-- hell you saw that crap in years past w/ other teams-- look at T-Mobile-- Ullrich, Zabel, Kloden, Vinikourov-- you have to pick a leader- 1 leader and go w/ them-- if you know who that is from day one, you have a purpose for training, a strategy and a lot less pressure. I dont know why everyone hyped Hincapie as the next leader-- wasnt gonna happen- I like him, but wasnt gonna happen.
None of these guys are like armstrong-- he's sick- to win 7 tours you have to be. One of the German riders was saying when he went to dinner w/ armstrong, all he talked about was his bike, his training, etc-- while everyone else wanted to talk about kids, vacations, etc-- that's what made him what he was (and is).

I still love Floyd-- he cracks me up, he's different and this has been exciting as all hell to watch!


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## All Mountain (Jul 19, 2006)

The fact that Landis is IN the Tour and the other favourites are OUT, means Landis deserves a chance to win it. You have to be in it to win it. Nothing else matters.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Mel Erickson said:


> The Armstrong years were boring for a reason. Armstrong seldom had a tactical lapse and never as big as Landis and his team have had in this Tour. Armstrong was superior to all comers, he trained smarter and harder. Armstrong had a stronger team. Armstrong had a better team manager. Armstrong had really good dope. Add this up and you've got a boring winner, seven times.
> 
> I'm sure I'll get flamed because some will feel I'm throwing a wet towel on the party but that's the way I see it.


I agree with the good dope part.


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2006)

OnTheRivet said:


> I agree with the good dope part.


Ouch! That was a low blow


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## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

OnTheRivet said:


> I agree with the good dope part.


Anyone who thinks it wasn't a level playing field is a bit naive.


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## GarbanzoBeanSnafu (Jun 27, 2005)

Seriously, on the "good dope" comment, I sure wish I had some. I hate getting dropped and it is a regular occurance for me... boo hoo hoo.

Vive la Floyd!


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## tobu (Dec 19, 2004)

04 Kloden vs. 06 Floyd -- If you are talking hypotheticals I think you could argue that even 04 Floyd beats 04 Kloden if Floyd didn't have to do all donkey work for Lance -- but we'll never know.

Phonak tactics -- as mentioned by other posters, tactics are easy if you have an overwhelming team (especially if there's a TTT). Giving Pereiro 30 minutes was the right tactic given the strength of the team -- and you can't factor in expecting to lose 10 minutes into your strategy. By Phonak's logic, Floyd should have taken at least 1-2 minutes out of Pereiro in each mountain stage and the TT. So it was a pretty reasonable gamble. What if they had run Pereiro down? It's quite possible that Merckx would have been used up for the following stages (and Floyd would have lost even more time) and his team might have been too tired to give him a launch pad for stage 17.

Peloton tactics -- Some people wonder why they let Floyd get that big of a gap. 

1) If you look at the terrain, it was very difficult to chase that day. 
2) At the end of a 3 week tour on a hot day in the high mountains, everyone's legs are shot. Even if the pack looks big, 80% of the riders are barely hanging on even when it's slow. 
3) If you do decide to put the riders on your team who are still useful on the front, then you won't have them for the final valley and climb up the La Joux Plane.
4) If you put the riders who really have the strength to chase (the leaders) on the front, then the team that doesn't will attack on the La Joux Plane. You can't just concentrate on Landis, you are also handcuffed by the riders you are trying to beat.
5) Floyd should have cracked. Even discounting his bad day before, he should have cracked and been down to 3-4 minutes at the foot of the final climb. 

It was just a ridiculously hard day where everyone was just fighting to survive. In hindsight, Landis probably might have been reigned in for less time if CSC or T-Mobile destroyed themselves earlier (for the benefit of the other teams), but they're there to win the tour, not to make Landis lose.


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## GarbanzoBeanSnafu (Jun 27, 2005)

tobu said:


> It was just a ridiculously hard day where everyone was just fighting to survive. In hindsight, Landis probably might have been reigned in for less time if CSC or T-Mobile destroyed themselves earlier (for the benefit of the other teams), but they're there to win the tour, not to make Landis lose.



Well said. Landis was just too strong that day. Mobile/CSC have strong teams - and they could not reign him in and keep Oscar under control at the same time. You have to respect who is wearing yellow during a stage.


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