# Cervelo rider's Madone dilemma



## DieselHybrid (Feb 12, 2007)

Hi folks,

I have been searching for an answer on these forums to no avail.

Here's my dilemma: I'm not getting any younger and my new '07 54cm aluminum Cervelo Soloist Team is beating me up. After a couple long rides I soon discovered that my Soloist Team was stiffer than some of the CAADs I had ridden in the past (when I was younger and could take the abuse).

Here's my Soloist Team's set-up:
2007 Soloist Team + Wolf SL (full carbon) fork + American Classic 420 clinchers, Vittoria Corsa EVO CX 700x23c tires @ 100-110psi, Ritchey WCS OS aluminum bar/stem, Selle Italia SLR Saddle, SRAM Force gruppo. 

btw- I'm 5'9" and weigh 175lbs.

I went to my LBS and test rode a Madone 5.2 and almost bought it on the spot- as it was soooooo comfortable in comparison to my Cervelo!

I am reluctant to let go of my nearly new Soloist Team as I have spent some $$$ upgrading it. My next step- before test riding the new Madone 5.2- was to try upgrading my wheels in hopes of taking my Soloist Team's edge off. Would Zipp 404's (or similar aero carbon wheels) soften up my ride any?

I love the aero features and the out-of-saddle bb stiffness of my Soloist Team, however... 

Here are my main questions: 

1. Should I continue to try to make my aluminum Soloist more comfortable- or should I just cut my losses and get a Madone 5.2 (and swap out my SRAM stuff)?

2. How much less "aero" is the new Madone than the Soloist?

3. How much less stiff is the new Madone compared to the aluminum Soloist?

Thanks in advance!


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

I too am 5'9" and 175lbs. Did an organized 100km yesterday without any discomfort whatsoever when I was finished. By the way, the total elevation changes on this ride was 6000 feet so it was anything but a flat route. My 5.2 is extremely comfortable, responsive with a BB that is as stiff if not stiffer than anything out there in the marketplace today.

I would cut my losses - you can always recoup some of your initial investment by selling off the Soloist. As far as aero benefits are concerned, I would imagine that in a majority of riding that you do, you would not notice a difference whatsoever. Maybe a pro rider descending the Alps could detect it, but us normal riders probably would not. As for stiffness, I'd imagine that the Madone is stiffer than your aluminum Soloist with a much more compliant ride. The vertical compliance was engineered into the frame by Trek.
One of my riding partners yesterday was on an older Madone 5.9 with Zipp 404s. I asked him if I should upgrade to those wheels - his answer was that he was a Clydesdale and that 404s wouldnt do much for me. Understand - I was not looking to upgrade, I'm perfectly happy with my stock 5.2. I just asked for the hell of it.

Bottom line is, the 5.2 is a great ride, fast, responsive, stiff but very comfortable. I would highly recommend it.


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## DieselHybrid (Feb 12, 2007)

What size Madone (and type: Pro or Performance) are you riding? The Madone's geometry is funky: 53.8-53.9 TT on the 54 is awfully short!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

DieselHybrid said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> I have been searching for an answer on these forums to no avail.
> 
> ...


IMO, there are several fairly straightforward things you can do to take the edge off your current ride. It's gonna cost some, but so would buying a new Madone and reselling the Soloist. First, I'd focus on the fork and tires. The Wolf forks are renowned for their stiff characteristics, so I'd opt for Easton's EC90 SL, being careful to match the current rake (assuming you like the steering/ handling of the Soloist).

Next, I'd move up to 25mm tires running a pressure of 80-90 PSI. Getting tires with a tread pattern (as opposed to slicks) will also help take the edge off the ride. Optionally, I'd consider a carbon post - possibly on of the Specialized Zertz models. These changes will be noticable and may be enough to keep you happy with the Cervelo. It seems that there are things about it you like, so I would think it's worth a shot to soften it up a bit. Also, the changes can be made incrementally and all may not be necessary - thus saving some $$. 

As far as your questions, #1, 2, 3, I'd say #1 it's your money and (either choice) your bike, so it's your call. #2 a non issue in real world riding, at least for us mortals. #3, stiff is stiff and more is not necessarily better, as you've discovered. 

Hope this helps.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

54cm Performance


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

08Madone5.2 said:


> ...with a BB that is as stiff if not stiffer than anything out there in the marketplace today.


IMO an IMO should've prefaced that statement.


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## nor_cal_rider (Dec 18, 2006)

+1 on the overall comfort and ride on the Madone 5.2 Performance. I have had mine since last October and have just over 3k miles on it. Just rode in an organized Century yesterday with 4200' climbing - was a joy to ride and I had no issues with the bike. Kept up with most other bikes - except the guys with the bigger chain ring in the flats (I run a compact for climbing) - but overall nothing I would change other than the saddle (a VERY personal preference).

BTW - I'm about 5'9" and 155 lbs


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## tg3895 (Mar 14, 2006)

08Madone5.2 said:


> I too an 5'9" and 175lbs. Did an organized 100km yesterday without any discomfort whatsoever when I was finished.


Hey 08,

Are you referring to the N2SBC? I was there for the 50 miler. Was that nutty weather or what?!!! Great ride overall!

To the OP,

I hate to say, but if you're not comfortable on the Cervelo, it may be best to just sell it and then buy a new bike. The Madone 5.2 is a great bike. I have the Performance and love this bike. I would even try a couple of other bike brands just to be sure. If you keep coming back to the Trek, then I guess you made the right choice. Best of luck in your decision.


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

TG -

Yes, it was the Nassau to Suffolk. I did the 100k and averaged 14.9 in the rain!! As I was walking around before the start, I only saw one other Madone - a 5.5. Frame was definitely sweet in the red and black but in my opinion, not worth the extra 5 or 6 hundred. Send me a message so we can talk further.


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## howitzer11 (Jul 30, 2006)

Diesel, if you are looking for more vertical compliance or comfort do not remotely consider getting this from a set of 404's. I love zipps I have a set of 202s and 404s and I happen to think that 404s are the best wheels on the market. 404s are marketed as a stiff aero wheel. Unfortunately most areo products are vertically stiff due to the profile. If it is wheels that you want comfort from I have never ridden anything more comfortable than XXX clinchers, which I also own. Also, would be worthy to note that my 404s are tubular.

As far as the bike goes I have owned a couple of Madones even the one with the funny fin on the seat tube. The one I liked most was the 5.9 sl. Man this bike was the best of both worlds comfortable and stiff enough when you pounded the pedals you had instant power. I am currently riding a Seven Elium SG but would not hesitate to buy a new Madone. The Cervelo's have decent resale value so why not go for the Madone. I would not spend money trying to make the Cervelo something it is not or ever intended to be.


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## trumpetman (Dec 9, 2001)

*Get new keep old*

I agree that you should not consider a set of aero carbon wheels if comfort is your issue. Deep carbon wheels are very unforgiving. I love em but they do hurt a bit on rough roads. If fact, several years ago, when Campy Shamals came out and started the trend toward deep v wheels the UCI looked at whether these types of wheels might cause retinal detachments in pro riders.

I have many wheelsets and also agree that the Bontrager XXX-lites are extremely comfortable. They also are very strong and have excellent braking. I would get a madone and upgrade the wheels to XXX-lites. If you are going that route go all the way and get tubulars.

Keep the Cervelo for wet days.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

The aluminum Soloist is very stiff because of the huge down tube and short, stiff seat stays. You could add this and that to it to try to soften the ride at the saddle but if you're being honest with yourself, you know you'll never be totally happy with it because there's just nothing that can make a stiff frame like that feel truly smooth.

Good news though, the Madone 5.2 is available as a frameset, you could buy the frame, sell the Soloist frameset and have done the upgrade without losing all that you spent on upgrades to your current bike. If you can get a decent price for the Soloist as a whole bike then have a look at the Madone 5.5 Pro. It comes out of the box with SRAM Force.


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## sneakyracer (Dec 1, 2007)

davidka said:


> Good news though, the Madone 5.2 is available as a frameset, you could buy the frame,


How much is the Trek frameset??


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

sneakyracer said:


> How much is the Trek frameset??


Too much. Trek's pricing policies on framesets vs. complete bikes is obviously skewed to complete bikes. I don't have the numbers handy on the new Madone, but I do recall that the '07 5.2 with full 10 speed Ultegra, Race Lite wheels, bar, stem, etc. retailed for $3000 while the frameset retailed around $2000.

I'm a Campy guy, so if I pro-dealed a Madone I'd still get a complete bike and either sell the components back to shop or eBay 'em.

Do the math.:thumbsup:


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## DieselHybrid (Feb 12, 2007)

More like $2700 for a Trek Madone frameset vs $3200 for a complete 5.2 . Why bother? 

Despite the extra expense, I am leaning towards keeping the Cervelo as a rainy weather, crit bike and getting a smooth carbon bike for the longer rides. 

Now, can anyone help me convince my wife that everyone needs at least 2 bikes... anyone, anyone?


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## tg3895 (Mar 14, 2006)

Foot rubs. Lots of them. Until your hands ache. And then you've just begun.


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

DieselHybrid said:


> ....
> 
> Now, can anyone help me convince my wife that everyone needs at least 2 bikes... anyone, anyone?


It's better to beg forgiveness than ask for permission. 

BUT If that fails, I just bring up the fact that she has more pairs of black leather high heeled boots, than I have things to put on my feet. While that is not always the best tack... referencing the number of shoes a woman has ... (and which can lead to other problems YMMV) it usually accomplishes it's goal. 

zac


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## 08Madone5.2 (Dec 25, 2007)

Tell her you kept one hoping she will learn to ride with you!!


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