# thoughts on kg381 vs 461 vs 481?



## tv_vt (Aug 30, 2007)

Hi,

Contemplating my first Look. I like the listed frames because of the 72.5 seat angle in the 59-60 sizes. Any owners of these frames care to offer thoughts on how these ride and ownership issues. And how they compare to other frames and materials you've ridden? And finally, what you think is a fair price to pay for one of these, providing I can find one in my size in the first place?

Thanks very much.


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## ChristianB (Jul 27, 2004)

I have a 281 and 481 SL - 281 for winter / bad weather - both size 61. This is more or less identical bikes, so I would presume the 381 to be the same ride. Only noticeable difference is the fork on the 481, which is a HSC5. It's lighter and presumably stiffer, but I wouldn't say theres a great difference in riding. Also the HSC5 is a 1 1/8", the HSC3 fork (on the 281) is only a 1", again this should (theoretically anyway) lower the stiffness... I haven't used the 281 on long descents with high speeds though, so maybe it could be felt better there.

The 481 has some kind of molding over the alu lugs, which gives it a smoother look, but unfortunately there tend to come small cracks in the paint in these areas, especially noticeable around the seat post section. Nothing to fear - it's not that it's broken or anything, but from an aesthetic pov a bit annoying, especially since it's otherwise such a great looking frame. The 281 tends to have some small cracks of the paint on the lugs around the seat post insert. For both frames the only concern is the seat post, which is the old 25mm standard limiting choices quite a lot, but you would probably get the Ergopost 2 with it. This is not a bad seat post, but when installing (or adjusting height) you should use some carbon fiber paste to help it stick and use a torque wrench when tightening it. It's easy to damage when over tightening, and if you don't use the paste it tends to slide down the tube, needing readjustment.

I crashed my 281 once (Hit by a car), and it survived without any problems, except a broken post. Had the bike shop mechanic check it up, no problems and have been riding it quite extensively since.

The ride quality I would describe as quite comfortable, not the stiffest or lightest frame around though. The steering and handling is brilliant and has a good balanced feel to it. I put more than 10K on each of these bikes (and the 281 I bought second hand). The 281 has mainly been ridden in danish and german winters, with loads of rain, snow and salt sprayed all over the roads - without any problems, just the normal wear & tear. The 481 in alpine and hilly terrain in Slovenia, where the minor roads tend to be of less than perfect quality. Again no problems - even been going around 60 km/h into a deep pothole, snake biting both my tubes, no damage to bike (Btw - gotta love those Campy Eurus wheels - they survived too, didn't even need trueing).

For the price range - a brand new 481SL should be below 1000 $ including post and HSC5 Fork - This seems to be a little less than the going rate for new 555's...

Hope it was helpful


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## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

Are you sure about the size? The 81 series comes in 1cm increments, and the 57 Look is actually larger than a 58 Trek- so you might want to think about it. My Look is maybe six years old--- and I STILL have no desire to upgrade (or rather update). It is the best ride I have experienced.



tv_vt said:


> Hi,
> 
> Contemplating my first Look. I like the listed frames because of the 72.5 seat angle in the 59-60 sizes. Any owners of these frames care to offer thoughts on how these ride and ownership issues. And how they compare to other frames and materials you've ridden? And finally, what you think is a fair price to pay for one of these, providing I can find one in my size in the first place?
> 
> Thanks very much.


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## saab2000 (Mar 16, 2004)

I have a 56 cm KG381i and like it a lot. I wish I could find a 57, but they are rare on the used market.

The seatpost issues are correct. Nice looking design but not too functional.

Otherwise it's a great bike. Handling is superb. Racebike like. Quick handling yet completely stable and improves the faster you go. Stiffer than one might expect. At least stiffer than I expected when I bought it used about a year ago. Pleasantly surprised. Absolutely raceworthy rigidity. Good ride quality too. 

I once saw one where the headset creaked, but mine has been smooth with no play and no binding and no creaking. Adjustable dropouts are a good idea, but the boltheads are too small and strip out. That was a PITA to remedy as they were not lined up when I bought the frame.

My experience has been positive, but I could use one a cm bigger.

I'll also be looking for an XL 585 as it seems to deal with the seatpost issue and is probably a more modern bike in some other respects too.


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## FRENCH BULLDOG (Sep 11, 2005)

Let me weigh in on this. I have the 281 and 481. They are both wonderful bikes.They are as previously stated quite similar although I feel that the 281 gives a slightly more tactile road feel. Both handle like lasers and are very comfortable for the long haul.I have not experienced any problems with cracks on the 481 as stated earlier and that bike has 5000 miles on it. The finish on the Look frames not only looks great but is very durable. They are known for that. Great descenders and more than adequate on the climbs. Their sizing is different from some other manufacturers. I ride a 59 cm for Bianchi and Cannondale but use a 57cm for LOOK. My friend rides a 61cm Bianchi but has to ride a 59 cm for Look. Take that into consideration. Great bikes.... Go for it


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## FRENCH BULLDOG (Sep 11, 2005)

*57cm look kg281*

Mine is for sale if you are interested. 9 speed DURA ACE/ 105 DERAILLERS/ NEUVATION WHEELS R28SL FSA CRANKSET CINELLI STEM/ ITM BAR/ CHRIS KING HEADSET/LOOKERGO POST/


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## tv_vt (Aug 30, 2007)

*good info...*

Thanks for all the good info! Would appreciate any more comments. As far as sizing, I think I'd fit a 59 pretty well. My Merckx are 60's. I don't think want something too much smaller because of the smaller headtube length.

I'm thinking about a 481. I wish it had a standard 27.2 seat tube diameter. Have heard mixed reviews of the Look ergopost. But I would need the setback it offers.

Any thoughts on a proper price for a used 481? If it is too high, I might as well get a 555, 565, or 585, with the standard seat tube and newer design...

Thanks,

TV


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## saab2000 (Mar 16, 2004)

FRENCH BULLDOG said:


> Mine is for sale if you are interested. 9 speed DURA ACE/ 105 DERAILLERS/ NEUVATION WHEELS R28SL FSA CRANKSET CINELLI STEM/ ITM BAR/ CHRIS KING HEADSET/LOOKERGO POST/


Sorry. Looking for a 381 or 481 only. I check eBay about every 3 days. Once there was a 57 CM 481 in black but it was a complete bike and the dude was not willing to part it out. Too bad because I don't think he had many offers. I would have bought the frameset.


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