# Tyler Hamilton Wins Mt.Washington Hillclimb



## MikeBiker (Mar 9, 2003)

> *Results, 12.3 km*
> 
> *Overall*
> 
> ...


 http://www.cyclingnews.com/road.php?id=road/2005/aug05/washington05


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## peterpen (May 5, 2004)

How weak. Sure it's a non-sanctioned race, but the classy thing for Hamilton to do would be to not compete while suspended. Period. Maybe he and Dave Fuentes should start their own little circuit for suspended pros in non-sanctioned races? Bring over some of the other Phonak riders (Camazind, Perez,etc) to join... 

And I wonder how the runner up felt about being beat by a rider who is suspended? Of course, I guess that's the risk with non-sanctioned races.

On the brighter side - look at Deadly Nedly?! What an animal.


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## Retro Grouch (Apr 30, 2002)

*Ned Rocks!*

Fifty years old and still mixing it up the young ones!



peterpen said:


> On the brighter side - look at Deadly Nedly?! What an animal.


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## Sintesi (Nov 13, 2001)

Retro Grouch said:


> Fifty years old and still mixing it up the young ones!


Wow! That guy is isn't human.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

Well, it seems that he really has kept in shape.

On one hand that seems to say that he really believes that his appeal will be successful. Or not.

It seems the Phonak kit and BMC are gone now...


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## leadag (Jan 4, 2005)

so, now we get the answer to the age old question - if the pro's had to pay for their bike, what would they ride?

I can pick out an easton fork, but no the frame.. any guesses?


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## FTF (Aug 5, 2003)

leadag said:


> so, now we get the answer to the age old question - if the pro's had to pay for their bike, what would they ride?
> 
> I can pick out an easton fork, but no the frame.. any guesses?


 It's a parlee. 795 Gram.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

FTF said:


> It's a parlee. 795 Gram.


yep... and it looks like he's using Zero Gravity breaks. I wonder what wheels he's using. Zipps maybe? I bet they're custom built wheels with carbon rims.


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## FTF (Aug 5, 2003)

rocco said:


> yep... and it looks like he's using Zero Gravity breaks. I wonder what wheels he's using. Zipps maybe? I bet they're custom built wheels with carbon rims.


 All told that bike weighs 11-12 lbs.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

FTF said:


> All told that bike weighs 11-12 lbs.



Where did that info. come from?


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*Weak...*

The Vampire should have stayed at home. That was weak...


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

magnolialover said:


> The Vampire should have stayed at home. That was weak...


Naa, let him ride. It's nothing more than an organized group ride isn't it?


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## peterpen (May 5, 2004)

Einstruzende said:


> Well, it seems that he really has kept in shape.


Or, since it's an unsanctioned race and he knows that there will be no testing, he could still be doped to the gills.

Hamilton shows a real lack of class by racing in any manner while suspended. Charity rides, training rides, guest appearances - go on and knock yourself out. But pinning a number on and taking podium spots from clean riders who could truly benefit from winning an event like Mt. Washington is weak. If he's so sure his ban will be over-turned, he should wait until it is. 

(As an aside, I'm far from convinced of Hamilton's absolute guilt. I just think he's built a very nice life within the system and should continue to play by its rules, like them or not.)


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## euro-trash (May 1, 2004)

Einstruzende said:


> Naa, let him ride. It's nothing more than an organized group ride isn't it?


 My group rides don't give out an Audi everytime someone breaks a course record. It's a race.


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## MikeBiker (Mar 9, 2003)

peterpen said:


> Or, since it's an unsanctioned race and he knows that there will be no testing, he could still be doped to the gills.
> [snip]
> But pinning a number on and taking podium spots from clean riders who could truly benefit from winning an event like Mt. Washington is weak. If he's so sure his ban will be over-turned, he should wait until it is.


 There is no way to know if ANY of the riders were clean or not.


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*No...*



Einstruzende said:


> Naa, let him ride. It's nothing more than an organized group ride isn't it?


Nope, there is prize money, and as someone else said, if you break the course record, they'll give you a car. In the past, it's been an Audi, don't know what it is now, or if they still do that. But there is money given out.

If you call an organized group ride shelling out over $100 to enter, then yeah, it's a group ride.


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## harlond (May 30, 2005)

*Strictly speaking*



peterpen said:


> Or, since it's an unsanctioned race and he knows that there will be no testing, he could still be doped to the gills.
> 
> Hamilton shows a real lack of class by racing in any manner while suspended. Charity rides, training rides, guest appearances - go on and knock yourself out. But pinning a number on and taking podium spots from clean riders who could truly benefit from winning an event like Mt. Washington is weak. If he's so sure his ban will be over-turned, he should wait until it is.
> 
> (As an aside, I'm far from convinced of Hamilton's absolute guilt. I just think he's built a very nice life within the system and should continue to play by its rules, like them or not.)


I'm not convinced that Hamilton should cover himself in sackcloth and ashes because he's suspended, but be that as it may, since the rules of UCI, ProTour, and the Mt. Washington Hillclimb itself in no way prohibit suspended riders from riding, Hamilton is playing completely and utterly by the rules in doing this race. For whatever's that worth.


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## FTF (Aug 5, 2003)

harlond said:


> I'm not convinced that Hamilton should cover himself in sackcloth and ashes because he's suspended, but be that as it may, since the rules of UCI, ProTour, and the Mt. Washington Hillclimb itself in no way prohibit suspended riders from riding, Hamilton is playing completely and utterly by the rules in doing this race. For whatever's that worth.


 Just because something is with in the law doesn’t mean it's something one should do. There are moiré’s and other things that tell us what we should and should not do. Like say tonight, I can play my music at a "legal" volume at 3am in the morning, and no one can do a thing about it, but I know that everyone else that lives in my building wouldn't be so happy about that, and it would be wrong, legal, but still wrong. Such is the case we have here, TH knows he is not supposed to be racing, he's a convicted doper, sentenced to a two year suspension from racing bikes, but finds a loophole, an unsanctioned race, and exploits it. To me, that is wrong, immoral, dishonorable, what have you. 

Put your self in the runner ups place, you were just beaten by a convicted doper, who is on suspension, how would you feel?


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## fringale37 (Feb 6, 2005)

*how far do you go?*



FTF said:


> Just because something is with in the law doesn’t mean it's something one should do. There are moiré’s and other things that tell us what we should and should not do. Like say tonight, I can play my music at a "legal" volume at 3am in the morning, and no one can do a thing about it, but I know that everyone else that lives in my building wouldn't be so happy about that, and it would be wrong, legal, but still wrong. Such is the case we have here, TH knows he is not supposed to be racing, he's a convicted doper, sentenced to a two year suspension from racing bikes, but finds a loophole, an unsanctioned race, and exploits it. To me, that is wrong, immoral, dishonorable, what have you.
> 
> Put your self in the runner ups place, you were just beaten by a convicted doper, who is on suspension, how would you feel?


 OK, I get your point but I got a DUI and my license suspended because of a speeding ticket and still drive to and from work are all the other people that drive to and from work gonna be upset with me? There is a loophole for a work permit for the DUI. I have to earn a living, not saying that Tyler is earning a living from his racing, but live and let live.


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## peterpen (May 5, 2004)

Perfect example, and in my mind you shouldn't be allowed to drive to work. You should have to take the bus, carpool, or ride your bike - and have to worry about getting hit by a drunk driver.
Driving and racing bikes are both privileges, not rights. If you choose to endanger others' lives by drinking and driving, you should pay the full consequences, even if that means losing your job.
Sorry if that sounds harsh, but lots of cyclists have lost their lives to drunk drivers - I have no sympathy.


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## FTF (Aug 5, 2003)

fringale37 said:


> OK, I get your point but I got a DUI and my license suspended because of a speeding ticket and still drive to and from work are all the other people that drive to and from work gonna be upset with me? There is a loophole for a work permit for the DUI. I have to earn a living, not saying that Tyler is earning a living from his racing, but live and let live.


 If there was a loophole where the UCI gave TH a permit to race certian events you might have a point. 

Also, you are probably correct, allot of people wouldn't be very happy that you can drive at all, having had a DUI.




peterpen said:


> Perfect example, and in my mind you shouldn't be allowed to drive to work. You should have to take the bus, carpool, or ride your bike - and have to worry about getting hit by a drunk driver.
> Driving and racing bikes are both privileges, not rights. If you choose to endanger others' lives by drinking and driving, you should pay the full consequences, even if that means losing your job.
> Sorry if that sounds harsh, but lots of cyclists have lost their lives to drunk drivers - I have no sympathy.


 Well said, and me either.


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## harlond (May 30, 2005)

FTF said:


> If there was a loophole where the UCI gave TH a permit to race certian events you might have a point.


Loophole is a pejorative term, so let's be clear. There's no loophole. Instead, UCI has no power or authority under its own rules to bar someone from participating in events not licensed by UCI. If an event is not licensed by UCI, no one needs a permit from UCI to ride in it.




FTF said:


> Just because something is with in the law doesn�t mean it's something one should do. There are moir�s and other things that tell us what we should and should not do. Like say tonight, I can play my music at a "legal" volume at 3am in the morning, and no one can do a thing about it, but I know that everyone else that lives in my building wouldn't be so happy about that, and it would be wrong, legal, but still wrong. Such is the case we have here, TH knows he is not supposed to be racing, he's a convicted doper, sentenced to a two year suspension from racing bikes, but finds a loophole, an unsanctioned race, and exploits it. To me, that is wrong, immoral, dishonorable, what have you.


The UCI's punishment bars Hamilton from racing in UCI-licensed events. It is not a general ban on racing, and Hamilton is not exploiting any loophole by racing in non-UCI events. Certainly you're right that things are not morally right simply because they are legal, but that seems beside the point to me. Hamilton is suffering the punishment meted out by UCI, and a serious and severe punishment it is. Why should that punishment go any further than UCI says it should go? Why should Hamilton insist on suffering greater punishment than even his judges imposed?


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## FTF (Aug 5, 2003)

harlond said:


> Loophole is a pejorative term, so let's be clear. There's no loophole. Instead, UCI has no power or authority under its own rules to bar someone from participating in events not licensed by UCI. If an event is not licensed by UCI, no one needs a permit from UCI to ride in it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Why should he not race? Because he's a convicted doper, who is racing, for serious cash prizes, in the only kind of race he can possibly race, that's why.

How would you feel if you were racing for serious money against a guy who was a known cheater, and that when you lost there would be no recourse to prove he was cheating or not? Someone that can't compete in any other race so he comes to the one race he can?


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

magnolialover said:


> Nope, there is prize money, and as someone else said, if you break the course record, they'll give you a car. In the past, it's been an Audi, don't know what it is now, or if they still do that. But there is money given out.
> 
> If you call an organized group ride shelling out over $100 to enter, then yeah, it's a group ride.


Actually, when he won it the first time he won a Saturn Vue.


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## harlond (May 30, 2005)

FTF said:


> Why should he not race? Because he's a convicted doper, who is racing, for serious cash prizes, in the only kind of race he can possibly race, that's why.
> 
> How would you feel if you were racing for serious money against a guy who was a known cheater, and that when you lost there would be no recourse to prove he was cheating or not? Someone that can't compete in any other race so he comes to the one race he can?


There's no recourse to prove anyone else is cheating either. But I'm not arguing with you, really, you think Tyler's punishment should extend beyond its own limits, I don't see any moral force to that point.

And by the way, if I have the right site, the Hillclimb doesn't actually have a rule prohibiting use of performance-enhancing substances. I'm not saying that makes it right, but if I lose to Tyler because he "cheated"--and of course, I wouldn't know that to be true--well, it's far from clear that proving such a use would entitle me to the car anyway. Wonder how much money Tyler raised?


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## wheezer (Sep 21, 2004)

*it was the right move for him to race*

from tyler's perspective ... you have a doping conviction (mostly) behind you, you're willing to move forward. you're playing by the rules, hoping that you can still capture a little bit of past glory. you enter a short race with a massive local following where the prize has more to do with ego than purse and in an area where you're practically a cult hero. at the end of the day, you give your fan base a little taste of what they want and what is hopefully in store when you're back on the pro tour in a place where you've got roots and where you've already made a name for yourself.

from the runner up's perspective ... you placed second to tyler freaking hamilton. doping conviction or not, his presence in the field raises the prestige of the race _instantly_. the fact is, it's not the same race without someone like a tyler hamilton competing. if he's in it, you're going against the best. and who out there who is truly committed to competing would deny themselves the chance to compete against the best? and regardless of whether you think he was guilty the first time around, i think we can all safely bet that he's been clean since and that he was definitely clean for this race, even though the rules don't take it into consideration.

from the fans' perspective ... everybody in new england still loves tyler. most of the people around here are still convinced of his innocence. i bet the fans were going nuts for him and it was probably nice to see him in person and on form after so much bad news.


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## benInMA (Jan 22, 2004)

I did the race and got to hang out with Tyler for like 5 minutes after the awards ceremony. I'll post up some pictures sometime this week.

He was pretty cool about the whole thing, he hung out for like 4 hours after the race, despite being cold, soaked and hammered just like everyone else.

He was and still is a part of the new england cycling community, his dad & brother are always at the race and lots of people have met them. His dad puts on one of our local road races every spring.

There was probably 90% support for Tyler at the race, everyone seems to believe he is still going to prove his point and be exonerated. Lots of people had decorated their car with "We Support Tyler" type stuff. This was his home crowd and I'm sure he felt really welcome.

Really, people need to understand this race is in no way related to normal bike racing. No one asks you to see your license, the field is not divided up into categories, etc.. It's divided up into a "Top Notch" group, which is pros, some Cat 1s and 2s can get in, and anyone who has a previous 1:20 finish or better. Beyond that you go off in waves based on age. Each wave is separated by 5 minutes. There are no "points" available for winning. All Tyler won was $1500. He surely didn't make any money.

Anyway I haven't really believed him but he is a very nice guy so I totally understand now why so many people support him. A lot of you who are so antagonistic about him being at Mt. Washington would probably change your tune if you had been there and talked to him in person rather then relying on the internet & media.

Aside from any other implications, there are only 2 days all year you can ride up Mt. Washington. The practice day and the race. It is a hugely cool experience, Tyler had won 2 times before and he obviously enjoys getting the chance to ride it. If his only chance to ride is the race and no one at the race cares about his suspension why shouldn't ride it and have a good time.

About the bike... it is a Parlee, it had Zipp wheels and it definitely had the zero gravity brakes. I don't really remember what a lot of the other components were. I can't even remember if it was Campy or Shimano. Looked like it had compact carbon cranks. He also had one of those crazy saddles which is just a piece of carbon with no padding at all. I have close up pictures of the bike, I was standing like 3 feet from it for the awards ceremony.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*Tyler got publicity for his foundation which HELPS!!!! people.*

His foundation helps people with MS and young aspiring riders. So his appearance benefited needy people and cycling. What have you done for somebody besides yourself lately?????


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## gray8110 (Dec 11, 2001)

Einstruzende said:


> Well, it seems that he really has kept in shape.
> 
> On one hand that seems to say that he really believes that his appeal will be successful. Or not.
> 
> It seems the Phonak kit and BMC are gone now...


He's riding a Parlee! Good enough for me. You can't ride a Parlee and blood dope... it's just inconceivable.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

Go Tyler!


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## EpicX (Mar 11, 2002)

dagger said:


> His foundation helps people with MS and young aspiring riders. So his appearance benefited needy people and cycling. What have you done for somebody besides yourself lately?????


well whoop deee doooo... you're basically saying that if i do enough good deeds, it should negate what i did wrong? so, if i go on a rampage and run over a bunch of roadies, then feel reaally bad about it and set up a foundation of some sort, all should be forgiven?

what have i done? dunno, but i can tell you what i haven't done lately. i haven't gotten a transfusion of someones blood. that has to count for something. what if the blood bank was short and i cost someone their life so's i could win me a race?


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## svend (Jul 18, 2003)

EpicX said:


> well whoop deee doooo... you're basically saying that if i do enough good deeds, it should negate what i did wrong? so, if i go on a rampage and run over a bunch of roadies, then feel reaally bad about it and set up a foundation of some sort, all should be forgiven?
> 
> what have i done? dunno, but i can tell you what i haven't done lately. i haven't gotten a transfusion of someones blood. that has to count for something. what if the blood bank was short and i cost someone their life so's i could win me a race?



there's these round things called apples see, and they're not really like those other
round things called oranges. Although they are both round they are actually quite different. You should think about them more before you post, apples and oranges that is,
and think about how you rarely see orange pie. There's a reason for that but I'll let you ponder your whole fiasco of a post.


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## EpicX (Mar 11, 2002)

svend said:


> there's these round things called apples see, and they're not really like those other
> round things called oranges. Although they are both round they are actually quite different. You should think about them more before you post, apples and oranges that is,
> and think about how you rarely see orange pie. There's a reason for that but I'll let you ponder your whole fiasco of a post.


fiasco, wow thats good. is that the word of the day? i don't see your apples and oranges. the point was, i don't care about his foundation. the fact that he was shilling for them at the race makes no difference. he's a doper. as mentioned by someone else, this appeal is to lessen the severity of the punishment, not to be absolved of wrongdoing. perhaps my analogy was a bit extreeeeme, but the basic point that raising money doesn't mean you aren't guilty still applies. he wants to raise money? then get off the bike and sign autographs. hey he could even charge for them like at the sci-fi conventions. 

and the blood bank bit was completely tongue in cheek...


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## svend (Jul 18, 2003)

EpicX said:


> and the blood bank bit was completely tongue in cheek...


so was my post, mostly. Whether or not he is a doper is irrelevant, he is not barred from racing and if he raises a few bucks for a good cause all the better but not required. Guilty is as guilty does but if he is allowed to race in his local area, then why not, you are not the race organizer, so let it go. jeez, the guys career is ruined already, do you want him to be publically flogged too?


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

*i got an email from parlee*



rocco said:


> Where did that info. come from?


yesterday w/ a photo that said the bike weighed 11.9lb. 2 sti shifters, speedplay pedals, zero-gravity brakes. wheels look like lightweights. tires are tufo. easton fork, 7800 parts, including crankset. looks like m2 racer post and saddle. that's one for the ww's to go out and duplicate...or beat.


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## Live Steam (Feb 4, 2004)

You are quite harsh on Hamilton. He never gave anyone the impression he was anything other than a hard worker with no quit in him. He claims that he is a chimera which according to a doctor that was interviewed on Real Sports by Frank Deford, is not that rare or unusual. One of the doctors that was part of a panel for WADA also agrees that this condition can and does exist naturally, is not rare, can test positive and then false at times, and Tylers level was less than 2% or so, which would render it worthless from an enhancement standpoint. This same doctor says that WADA should set a threshold of no less than 5% for the test. He claims that 15% would be required to provide any significant advantage to a rider. I saw the show and it was very convincing. It also looks like Tyler may have a case and have the sentance tossed. By coincidence the show was on last night. If you have HBO on demand, you can still view it, otherwise you'll have to keep an eye on the schedule. 

http://www.hbo.com/realsports/stories/072605_TylerHamilton.html



> *Definition of Chimera* *Chimera:* In medicine, a person composed of two genetically distinct types of cells. Human chimeras were first discovered with the advent of blood typing when it was found that some people had more than one blood type. Most of them proved to be "blood chimeras" -- non-identical twins who shared a blood supply in the uterus. Those who were not twins are thought to have blood cells from a twin that died early in gestation. Twin embryos often share a blood supply in the placenta, allowing blood stem cells to pass from one and settle in the bone marrow of the other. About 8% of non-identical twin pairs are chimeras.
> 
> Many more people are microchimeras and carry smaller numbers of foreign blood cells that may have passed from mother across the placenta, or persist from a blood transfusion. In vitro fertilization (IVF) is also contributing to the number of human chimeras. To improve success rates, two or more embryos are placed in the uterus so women who have IVF have more twin pregnancies than usual. More twins mean more chimeras.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*So your throwing stones.*



EpicX said:


> fiasco, wow thats good. is that the word of the day? i don't see your apples and oranges. the point was, i don't care about his foundation. the fact that he was shilling for them at the race makes no difference. he's a doper. as mentioned by someone else, this appeal is to lessen the severity of the punishment, not to be absolved of wrongdoing. perhaps my analogy was a bit extreeeeme, but the basic point that raising money doesn't mean you aren't guilty still applies. he wants to raise money? then get off the bike and sign autographs. hey he could even charge for them like at the sci-fi conventions.
> 
> and the blood bank bit was completely tongue in cheek...




because your Mr. Clean who never told a lie, never breaks the law, never sneaks a peak at a girly picture, never had a moral failing? Is your butt so squeaky clean you can bash somebody else. I DOUBT it....so just go and be thankful for grace and forgiveness because nobody on this earth is perfect. Tyler has been punished....he didn't murder someone's child. In fact his punishment is more severe than any other sport for the same offense. He has been deprived of his livelyhood. I also guess your a freaking expert on blood also. I guess you didn't see the Discovery Times show a couple of weeks ago that didn't mention Hamilton and his story, but it did talk about the prevalence of chimeras in the human population so his story could be true. 

Everybody that has ever met the guy has talked about how nice of a guy he is. He is hard working and cares about others. Doesn't mean he's innocent, But.......

In our society and justice there is the concept of righting wrongs. Judges hand out fines, allow damages to indemify, crimes against society are made right by community service, and such. So in societiy's eyes he can right a wrong if he is guilty.


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## DSR (Oct 10, 2002)

*I have zero problem with it...*

If it's not against the rules of his suspension, what's the big deal? It's not like he's out there hitting all of these "races." He's from Mass and this is an event that he's participated in before. I'm sure most folks participating we're psyched that he was there with them.

And for what it's worth, from my firsthand experiences, I think he's a great guy. And based on the evidence that I've seen and understand, I believe that he will be absolved. 

Even if his is guilty, I don't know why a lot of people are SO down on him. To the point of being upset if the guy even gets on his bike. Don't be a TH hater! S


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## CARBON110 (Apr 17, 2002)

*ahahah*

""VERY LOUD NOISES!

I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE ARE YELLING ABOUT!!""

anchorman

Well, for me and I can only speak for myself, if I was Tyler and enjoyed riding a bike as much I do and as much as he must then I would not be concerned about how you fackers see it as I had already been disparaged and banned in public. So I don't blame him. I am sure he had a conversation with the wife and said "Screw it, I'm gonna do Washington regardless how it is perceived and raise 15 beans for MS"

Cycling has been good to Tyler and Tyler has done some good things for cycling and yes it is understandable how some people might see it as unfair. Those of you holding extreeme positions should have a little consideration that it is easy to relate/see both sides

As for getting busted Drinking and driving you should of hired a lawyer and got the charge dropped to a CNN for $5000. It would have been worth it, unless you are a lush and drive like that all the time and in that case may I quote our articulate and eloquent Vice President when he was addressing the Senator from Vermont by saying ""go f#uck yourself" and get some help!


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

MikeBiker said:


> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road.php?id=road/2005/aug05/washington05


Rock On Tyler!


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## fleck (Mar 25, 2005)

Its not a USA Cycling or FIAC race.
let him ride.

quite frankly I'm a bit dissapointed that only 2 of 3 judges are needed to throw a stick in his spokes.

If her were a pro baseball player he would have had a 10 day suspension.


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## kdogg78 (Aug 26, 2005)

*Overanalysis*

You guys are way overanalyzing this. Tyler Hamilton is just a semi local guy (Mass), competing in the local king of the hill comp at Mt Washington. He pretty much just did it for fun to see if he could still win it. Its not the tour de france so whats the deal? The only thing that sucks about all this is that I didnt know he was competing. I wouldve driven over to watch. Its only a couple hours for me.

KM


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## wiles (Apr 17, 2005)

*innocent*

I think he is innocent. He loves to race. Life is short. The UCI won't know or care about his participation in the Mt. Washington race. Go for it!


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