# Disadvantages to long-cage derailleur?



## sfrider (Jun 5, 2003)

Can I use a long cage derailleur with a typical cassette range like 12-25 or 13-26? Are there any disadvantages? Will it not shift as well? I was thinking I would get a long cage and then switch the rear cassette back and forth from a 12-25 to 13-29 depending on terrain.


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## johnny99 (Apr 2, 2004)

There are 3 common derailleur lengths: road double, road triple, and mountain bike. With Shimano at least, a road double derailleur is spec'ed to work with cassettes up to 27 teeth (some people go bigger with no problems).


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## Rusty Coggs (Jan 28, 2004)

*mtb cages*



johnny99 said:


> There are 3 common derailleur lengths: road double, road triple, and mountain bike. With Shimano at least, a road double derailleur is spec'ed to work with cassettes up to 27 teeth (some people go bigger with no problems).


 mtb cages can be had in different lengths too.


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## sfrider (Jun 5, 2003)

*looking at campy*



johnny99 said:


> There are 3 common derailleur lengths: road double, road triple, and mountain bike. With Shimano at least, a road double derailleur is spec'ed to work with cassettes up to 27 teeth (some people go bigger with no problems).


I'm pretty sure Campy only offers 2 derailleur lengths. The short cage is recommended for their cassettes up to 26, then the next cassette size jumps up to 29 and they have a long-cage derailleur for that one. I was wondering if the long-cage will work well with a 12-25 or 13-26 cassette.


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## Rusty Coggs (Jan 28, 2004)

*Campy*



sfrider said:


> I'm pretty sure Campy only offers 2 derailleur lengths. The short cage is recommended for their cassettes up to 26, then the next cassette size jumps up to 29 and they have a long-cage derailleur for that one. I was wondering if the long-cage will work well with a 12-25 or 13-26 cassette.


 Record and chorus offer short,medium and long.centaur and lower, medium and long. The medium or long is recommended for the 29, but even the short works most of the time. The short works fine with a 25 or 26 cog,unless you need the wrap capacity of the long when using a triple.


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## 633 (Feb 10, 2004)

sfrider said:


> I'm pretty sure Campy only offers 2 derailleur lengths. The short cage is recommended for their cassettes up to 26, then the next cassette size jumps up to 29 and they have a long-cage derailleur for that one. I was wondering if the long-cage will work well with a 12-25 or 13-26 cassette.


Yes, the long-cage will work fine, and that would be a good choice if you expect to switch sometimes to a cassette that uses very large cogs.


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## Rusty Coggs (Jan 28, 2004)

*Large cogs*



633 said:


> Yes, the long-cage will work fine, and that would be a good choice if you expect to switch sometimes to a cassette that uses very large cogs.


 Long cage is about wrap capacity,not large cog capaacity.Two different concepts, and design parameters. Campy only goes to 29 anyway.


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## lyleseven (Nov 15, 2002)

*Long cage works beautifully with a 12-25*

and even an 11-23.


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## tube_ee (Aug 25, 2003)

Rusty Coggs said:


> Long cage is about wrap capacity,not large cog capaacity.Two different concepts, and design parameters. Campy only goes to 29 anyway.


Manufacturer's cog capacities are usually conservative. Given that many people have no problems getting Shimano road derailleurs (rated to 27t) to shift a 30, what do you think a "29t" Campy will do?

My guess would be that you could use a Shimano hub, 11-32 cassette, and Campy long-cage derailleurs and 9 speed shifters. 9 speed Campy shifters index quite well with Shimano cassettes, in my (limited) experience. Pre-soaking the Shimano cassette in extra-virgin olive oil, is, of course, essential, otherwise the cassette will die.

What say you, clicking Campy-philes?

--Shannon


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## PaulCL (Jan 29, 2000)

*short cage with a 29??*



Rusty Coggs said:


> Record and chorus offer short,medium and long.centaur and lower, medium and long. The medium or long is recommended for the 29, but even the short works most of the time. The short works fine with a 25 or 26 cog,unless you need the wrap capacity of the long when using a triple.


Are you sure?? I was thinking of getting a 13/29 in advance of a trip this summer to the Blue Ridge mountains. I have a short cage with a 13/26. I'm not sure if the 29 would make all that much difference anyway but if I don't have to invest in another derailleur, I'd give it a shot.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*short cage can work with a 13-29..*



PaulCL said:


> Are you sure?? I was thinking of getting a 13/29 in advance of a trip this summer to the Blue Ridge mountains. I have a short cage with a 13/26. I'm not sure if the 29 would make all that much difference anyway but if I don't have to invest in another derailleur, I'd give it a shot.


The wrap with a 53/39 and 13-29 is 30T. This exceeds the 27T rated capacity by 3T. In reality, there is at least 2T of excess capacity. If you try this combo, set the chain length to the maximum that will keep the chain from hanging loose in the 39/14 or 39/15 and it should work. Just don't use cogs smaller than appropriate for the chain length.


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

Paul, I have a medium cage(2003 record/chorus) sitting in my box. A finickey maneuver, but it is a doable change. I switched it out when I gave up the 13-29. OTOH, give yourself an extra link or two in your next chain, and the short cage should handle it all nicely.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*get a medium cage...*



sfrider said:


> Can I use a long cage derailleur with a typical cassette range like 12-25 or 13-26? Are there any disadvantages? Will it not shift as well? I was thinking I would get a long cage and then switch the rear cassette back and forth from a 12-25 to 13-29 depending on terrain.


You need a medium cage RD. There is no disadvantage to using the medium cage. It will shift just as well. Cambria Bike has leftover Chorus derailleurs on sale for $100.


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## Rusty Coggs (Jan 28, 2004)

*29 cog*



tube_ee said:


> Manufacturer's cog capacities are usually conservative. Given that many people have no problems getting Shimano road derailleurs (rated to 27t) to shift a 30, what do you think a "29t" Campy will do?
> 
> My guess would be that you could use a Shimano hub, 11-32 cassette, and Campy long-cage derailleurs and 9 speed shifters. 9 speed Campy shifters index quite well with Shimano cassettes, in my (limited) experience. Pre-soaking the Shimano cassette in extra-virgin olive oil, is, of course, essential, otherwise the cassette will die.
> 
> ...


The 29 cog reference was to the largest campy offers.Nothng more,nothing less.


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## sfrider (Jun 5, 2003)

*Why do they even make short cage derailleurs?*

If it is true that a long cage derailleur can accomodate the largest cassette cogs and handle the smaller cassettes too (like 11-23) with no difference in performance, then why are short or medium cage derailluers even necessary?


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## sfrider (Jun 5, 2003)

*Is it the minimum cog issue?*



sfrider said:


> If it is true that a long cage derailleur can accomodate the largest cassette cogs and handle the smaller cassettes too (like 11-23) with no difference in performance, then why are short or medium cage derailluers even necessary?


Maybe I know the answer to my own question. Is it that the small and medium cage der. can handle an 11-tooth cog and the smallest a long cage can handle is a 12-tooth?


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## johnny99 (Apr 2, 2004)

Even a MTB rear derailleur can handle an 11 tooth cog.

In theory, a shorter cage derailleur will weigh a little lss and shift a little more crisply than a long cage derailleur. That is more true 20 years ago than today. There's also the style man effect: no one wants to be seen with a long cage derailleur on a racing bike.


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## tube_ee (Aug 25, 2003)

Rusty Coggs said:


> The 29 cog reference was to the largest campy offers.Nothng more,nothing less.


Right. I was asking my question for my own info. What's the lagest rear cog you've made a Campy RD work with?

--Shannon


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

sfrider said:


> If it is true that a long cage derailleur can accomodate the largest cassette cogs and handle the smaller cassettes too (like 11-23) with no difference in performance, then why are short or medium cage derailluers even necessary?


I haven't really thought about when it comes to a road bike. However, on an MTB a shorter cage is less likely to get caught by sticks, small plants, and other green stuff that doesn't belong there  For instance, I ride a double 44/29 up front and 12-34 in the rear with a medium cage rear derailleur (shortest available for MTB). In comparison the long cage is extremely long and only 4-5" off the ground.


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## hdnoise (Apr 18, 2003)

*Short cage works with the 13-29 for me: Try it first.*

The catalog says use a medium cage but before you do, try the short cage. If it doesn't work you can buy the cage from Branford and swap it out. The short cage works fine for me - no chain adjustment required - plus I later swithched out the bottom so I now have a 12.


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## jnichols959 (Jan 22, 2004)

Here's the info from the campy web site's PDF on rear derailleurs:

- all campy rear derailleurs from xenon up to record come in short, medium and long cage versions.
- centaur/chorus/record all work as follows
    - short and medium can handle 11 tooth cogs, long can handle 12
    - short and medium/triple have a 26 tooth cog max
    - medium/double and long have a 29 tooth cog max
    - capacity (A-B) + (C-D) where A is big ring, B is small ring, C is big cod, D is small cog
        - short: 27, medium/double: 30, medium/triple: 36, long: 39
    - max front difference
        - short and medium/double: 14
        - medium/triple and long: 23

they only recommend the long cage for a triple setup. the medium can be used for triple or double and the short only for a double setup. from the numbers, it seems the medium/double compared to the short allows the same small cog (11) with a larger big cog (29) and a great capacity. i don't know the performance difference but should know this weekend: my road bike has 39/53, 12-25 with a short cage record, my cross bike will be running a 34/48, 13-29 with a medium cage centaur - but only after the derailleur arrives (hopefully later this week). i've actually moved the short cage derailleur to the cross bike to get the cable/housing installed - and might give it a ride this way.

in short, i'd recommend (based on the campy specs, not personal experience) a medium cage centaur or better derailleur. with a 39/53 and an 11-23, 12-25 or 13-29 you should be good to go - unless you're using veloce, mirage or xenon (in which case the max big cog and capacity limit will both be exceeded).

i'll re-post if i get any good info from running the 34/48, 13-29 with the short cage record rear.


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## sfrider (Jun 5, 2003)

*thanks, running a compact crankset*



jnichols959 said:


> Here's the info from the campy web site's PDF on rear derailleurs:
> 
> - all campy rear derailleurs from xenon up to record come in short, medium and long cage versions.
> - centaur/chorus/record all work as follows
> ...


Thanks for the info. I am running a compact crank and will probably go with a 13-26 cassette to start.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*poor choice...*



sfrider said:


> Thanks for the info. I am running a compact crank and will probably go with a 13-26 cassette to start.


Using a 13-26 with a 50/34 produces a pretty low top gear, equivalent to a 53/14.

The 26 in insignificantly lower than a 25.

The inclusion of the 18T in the 13-26 is really only valuable on flat terrain. It also creates a need for more cog shifting when transitioning from the big to little ring. If you ride on flat terrain, you shouldn't need a 26.


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## sfrider (Jun 5, 2003)

C-40 said:


> Using a 13-26 with a 50/34 produces a pretty low top gear, equivalent to a 53/14.
> 
> The 26 in insignificantly lower than a 25.
> 
> The inclusion of the 18T in the 13-26 is really only valuable on flat terrain. It also creates a need for more cog shifting when transitioning from the big to little ring. If you ride on flat terrain, you shouldn't need a 26.


Does a 12t give you a significantly higher gear than the 13 with a compact crank? I ride a lot of steep hills and have a bad knee so I thought a 13-26 would be a good choice for climbs. I guess I could also consider the 12-25 cassette as an option.


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## jnichols959 (Jan 22, 2004)

sfrider said:


> Does a 12t give you a significantly higher gear than the 13 with a compact crank? I ride a lot of steep hills and have a bad knee so I thought a 13-26 would be a good choice for climbs. I guess I could also consider the 12-25 cassette as an option.


Are you staying away from the 13-29 because you're trying to avoid getting a medium cage derailleur? I did end up getting my cross bike together last night with my short cage record derailleur and the 13-29. With the stock settings the top pulley wheel is too close to the 29 tooth cog when it's in that gear - but there is one screw you can apparently loosen to provide more clearance. I'll try that tonight and report back.

You can use any number of gear calculators on the web to compare the differences between the different options you're considering like http://www.panix.com/~jbarrm/cycal/cycal.30f.html - that's what I did in combination with riding my 24/34/46, 12-34 mountain bike to see how much gear I needed for a given hill and what cassette/chainring combo would give it to me.


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