# Pacenti SL23 or H Plus Son Archetype?



## BigPoser (Jan 11, 2013)

Going to be purchasing some parts for a new wheels build, and am having trouble deciding which to get. For those of you with either or both, please chime in. Thanks in advance. 

Any advice?



Chive On 
Brandon


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## Enoch562 (May 13, 2010)

I think the H plus are more robust, but I prefer the Pacenti for ease of build. I built 3 sets of each and had a couple of Alu nipples go bad on the H Plus rims during the build process on every rim. It was like the holes were rough. No issues on the Pacenti.


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## boneman (Nov 26, 2001)

I built with the H Plus Archetype's when they first came out and was pretty impressed by their quality. No issues with the build whatsoever. The build has a number of kilometres on it now and they've held up well. I used brass nipples for the build FWIW. Given that I already have used the H Plus, I would probably go with the Pacenti's for my next build.


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## Roland44 (Mar 21, 2013)

BigPoser said:


> Going to be purchasing some parts for a new wheels build, and am having trouble deciding which to get. For those of you with either or both, please chime in. Thanks in advance.
> 
> Any advice?
> 
> ...


Pretty easy choice for me, go with the Pacenti, you won't regret it...


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## BigPoser (Jan 11, 2013)

Roland44 said:


> Pretty easy choice for me, go with the Pacenti, you won't regret it...


What is it about them that you like and dislike?


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

The Archetype has slightly grabbier braking than the SL23. A bit nicer finish IMO but that's totally subjective. 

All in all, I think the Pacenti is a more versatile hoop. The ride quality between the two is quite similar though.


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## BigPoser (Jan 11, 2013)

Zen Cyclery said:


> The Archetype has slightly grabbier braking than the SL23. A bit nicer finish IMO but that's totally subjective.
> 
> All in all, I think the Pacenti is a more versatile hoop. The ride quality between the two is quite similar though.



Improving the quality of the ride is primarily what I'm looking for. Not to mention a little weight savings in the process 

It's also my understanding that the Pacenti's are a touch lighter as a set as well.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

Correct BigPoser. For their profile the SL23s are impressively light. They haven't been around forever so really can't speak for their long term durability. But from what I've seen so far I think they're one of the most versatile alloy clinchers currently offered.


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## BigPoser (Jan 11, 2013)

Zen Cyclery said:


> Correct BigPoser. For their profile the SL23s are impressively light. They haven't been around forever so really can't speak for their long term durability. But from what I've seen so far I think they're one of the most versatile alloy clinchers currently offered.



Good to know. Thanks Zen!


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## bwbishop (Sep 17, 2011)

I have a set of the SL23 and love them. They are 50 grams lighter than the H+Sons too if your into the whole weight weenie thing. Translates to about 5% less energy to get them up to speed (not that 99% of us could ever tell...) The H+ are damn sexy though.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Love the Pacenti. Have not tried the others though.


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## BigPoser (Jan 11, 2013)

I'm about ready to pull the trigger on a build and am really leaning toward the Pacenti's. Is it the right choice?


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## rlrj (Nov 17, 2005)

no experience with the H Plus, but I have the sl23 and they are a great rim except for the mounting a tire which is a real PITA. Got my 1st flat today after the new tires had been used and stretched a bit and it was still a PITA to seat the tire especially in 95 degree 78 percent dewpoint weather. If your going to use them with tubes and a training wheel year round I would keep that in mind. I also took the wheel to the wheel builder and he had just as difficult time mounting the tire, I thought I was doing something wrong but he mounted it the same way I did.I'm in NJ and probably won't use the wheels in the winter. Just my .02$ look at my post in another thread epic battle pacenti vs and you will see what I mean.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

I have the bits for a Placenti build on order now. So will report later on any tire mounting issues.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

Curious to hear about your tension before mounting the tire and after


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

I wonder if Kirk (Pacenti) has heard about these tire mounting issues, and has any plans to slightly revise the rims in the future in response? :nonod:

It's definitely an issue that's starting to shy me away from purchasing them (actually the PL23s, which are the box-section version, but with a very similar shape where the tire is seated).


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## BigPoser (Jan 11, 2013)

rlrj said:


> no experience with the H Plus, but I have the sl23 and they are a great rim except for the mounting a tire which is a real PITA. Got my 1st flat today after the new tires had been used and stretched a bit and it was still a PITA to seat the tire especially in 95 degree 78 percent dewpoint weather. If your going to use them with tubes and a training wheel year round I would keep that in mind. I also took the wheel to the wheel builder and he had just as difficult time mounting the tire, I thought I was doing something wrong but he mounted it the same way I did.I'm in NJ and probably won't use the wheels in the winter. Just my .02$ look at my post in another thread epic battle pacenti vs and you will see what I mean.


Thanks for the info. I've been reading more about the mounting issues, and I'm starting to have second thoughts about them. We often have triple digit heat here and sitting around on the side of the road when its 106 isn't fun. I'd almost rather go with the H Son's and more or less be problem free.


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## BigPoser (Jan 11, 2013)

bikerjulio said:


> I have the bits for a Placenti build on order now. So will report later on any tire mounting issues.


Please keep me posted. I'm holding out on my order for a few days until I can totally make up my mind.


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## changingleaf (Aug 20, 2009)

They are both quality rims. The Archetype is easier to mount tires on. The Pacenti is slightly lighter and will inflate tubeless tires easier. The tension does not drop much when mounting a tire on either rim 10kfg max.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

There was a discussion about tension reduction to the tune of 25%
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wh...-about-pacenti-sl23-299203-4.html#post4252243


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

BigPoser said:


> Please keep me posted. I'm holding out on my order for a few days until I can totally make up my mind.


Parts were shipped a couple of days ago, but usually it's 2 weeks to Toronto before I can build and report.

I'm used to dealing with Campy wheels which are notorious for being "tight" too. So we will see.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Go with the sure thing and get the Archetypes or Hed C2. Both are very high quality. Maybe throw the A23 in the mix but I don't have any experience with those.

I suppose it's nice that the SL23 is a little deeper and a little wider but really is that going to matter?

And when something is bigger AND lighter I have to wonder if something has to give there. I've said that or similiary several times here and don't want to make it look like I'm on a quest against that rim. Could last forever, I don't know. I just think there might be reason to be cautious about it before others can comment on long term durability.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

I think this could be easily put to bed if a couple of the reputable wheelbuilders who build the SL23s commercially would post the tension numbers they are getting before and after tire mounting.

If there is an issue, it will eventualy surface no matter what. If this drastic tension reduction was an isolated incident, not repeatable, then its not fair to the rim or the people behind it to bear the negative publicity.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

dcgriz said:


> There was a discussion about tension reduction to the tune of 25%


I just mounted a mounted a pair of GP4000S on the SL23s and got ~10kg drop.


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## Lookbiker (Sep 2, 2006)

Using the same 23mm tire, how much does going to a 23mm rim increase the tire at the widest point? I know the shape of the tire changes to one closer to a sew-up but checking clearance with chain stay.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Lookbiker said:


> Using the same 23mm tire, how much does going to a 23mm rim increase the tire at the widest point? I know the shape of the tire changes to one closer to a sew-up but checking clearance with chain stay.


From what I've read and seen, compared to your typical narrow rim, mounting a tire on a 23mm rim increases its width by 1-2mm.

Also remember that some '23mm' tires aren't actually 23mm on a narrow rim to begin with, sometimes they're undersized/will measure less than that (likely due to going for lightness bragging rights).


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

rruff said:


> I just mounted a mounted a pair of GP4000S on the SL23s and got ~10kg drop.


Thanks. What was the initial tension? Can you give us some of the specifics like number and type of spokes?


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

It depends on what you are using now, and which rim you are moving to. It's really the inside width that matters. Tires are fatter on the 20mm wide Stan's 340 than the other 23mm wide rims. 

But generally you will get ~2mm more width going from a 19-20mm wide rim to a 23. The Pacenti SL23 is 24mm wide.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

130kg DS 28r CX-Rays.
110kg 20f CX-Rays.


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## BigPoser (Jan 11, 2013)

Thanks for the input guys. I went ahead and ordered some H+Son's. Should be here on Saturday and can't wait.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

rruff said:


> 130kg DS 28r CX-Rays.
> 110kg 20f CX-Rays.


Works for me!


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## darwinosx (Oct 12, 2010)

I have Pacenti SL 23 and Hed C2's. Both are excellent, the C2s don't have the high sidewall so are easier to mount. They are about $30 more per rim than the Pacenti's. Not really interested in Velocity anything as i have had issues with bad seams and they seem a level lower in quality to these two rims.
I have both built by the same wheel builder and don't see any tension drop to speak of on the Pacenti's after mounting a rim but a lot on the He'd C2's.




Jay Strongbow said:


> Go with the sure thing and get the Archetypes or Hed C2. Both are very high quality. Maybe throw the A23 in the mix but I don't have any experience with those.
> 
> I suppose it's nice that the SL23 is a little deeper and a little wider but really is that going to matter?
> 
> And when something is bigger AND lighter I have to wonder if something has to give there. I've said that or similiary several times here and don't want to make it look like I'm on a quest against that rim. Could last forever, I don't know. I just think there might be reason to be cautious about it before others can comment on long term durability.


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## FuelForThought (May 13, 2012)

I was in the same boat as the OP last month. SL23 and Archetype were my finalists. I went with the Archetype for 3 reasons:
1- Ease of mounting tire
2- Better quality (more even tension, easier to build wheel)
3- Cheaper ($52 an eBikeStop), and better availability in 28H (at least at the time I ordered).

I love those Archetype rims. They simply look gorgeous and they do everything a rim should do (like holding a tire and not flexing around).


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## darwinosx (Oct 12, 2010)

Thats a good price. Cheapest Hed C 2's I could find were $119 and most were $130. I think the SL 23's are $99 everywhere.


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

I recently went with Pacenti Sl23s and very happy with them.
Mounting tires is difficult but I think its not really a concern because I don't change tires or get flats very often. If needed I have used a plastic tire iron to quickly get the tire on.
If I needed to save some money I think the H+Son would be my second choice.


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## darwinosx (Oct 12, 2010)

I went with Hed C2's with my latest build just for a change but I also didn't think it was that bad changing the tires on the Pacenti. Mostly you just have to squeeze the tire into the middle of the rim.



jnbrown said:


> I recently went with Pacenti Sl23s and very happy with them.
> Mounting tires is difficult but I think its not really a concern because I don't change tires or get flats very often. If needed I have used a plastic tire iron to quickly get the tire on.
> If I needed to save some money I think the H+Son would be my second choice.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Have HED C2 and Pacenti wheels that I've built in the last year. I have no special difficulty mounting Pro4s on the Pancentis. New tires are more difficult that previously installed tires, but talc and technique gets it done. One thing that probably helps at least a little is I use thin Kapton tape for rim tape, as is used for some tubeless setups.


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