# cycling computer recommendation (with cadence)



## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

Hi guys and gals,


I was wondering if you can recommend me a decent cycling computer that also has cadence.

I've been using Cateye Double wireles with cadence for the past year. Worked great.... Up until the battery in the receiver had died. No big deal right? So i attempted to replace the battery.. 

When i was trying to remove the battery cover, I unfortunately had also stripped/rounded the damn cover... Making it completely useless and also out $100 for a functioning computer...

I've been looking around... couldnt find a decent computer that incorporates all 3 aspects: Trip, Speed, and cadence.

What are you guys using?

Thanks in advance!


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Cateye Double Wireless

Don't strip it next time. 

I am sure there are other cheaper models. Saw a store brand on pricepoint a couple of weeks ago for 40.


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## gte105u (Aug 12, 2012)

Love my Garmin. GPS, speed/cadence, overall very solid. Rechargeable battery on most so battery is not an issue really. I have the 310xt and use it while running as well. The 500/510 is a great option if you just want it while biking. Ability to load courses/workouts, view route after, incorporate heart rate make it worth the extra over a standard computer IMO.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Garmin 500 is the best IMHO You can get them for around $200, or 300 with cadence and heart rate sensors - all wireless ANT+ and it will upload files to many tracking software options computer or online.


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## Road Viking (Jan 30, 2013)

Is it possible to use say a two part epoxy to hold the cover in place, and get one last hurrah out of your unit? Like many have said, I have gone Garmin 500 and couldn't be happier. The data it gives you is unreal, and I haven't really tapped it's full potential yet. If it meant saving your money for a while to purchase it, that would be a wise move. And they go on sale regularly at online retailers such as ProBikeKit. I picked up a Red unit with cadence and premium heart rate strap for $285 to my door about two months ago. The black units and the blue ones were cheaper then that.~


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

NJBiker72 said:


> Cateye Double Wireless
> 
> Don't strip it next time.


^^^^ This.

I'd add that you might want to consider contacting Cateye customer service. They have an excellent rep and may offer a good remedy.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I have the Garmin ForeRunner 610. I can't justify the cost of a power meter, so it doesn't give up anything I care about to the triathlon watches and it's a bit smaller. Also good for running, multiple bikes, not looking at when I don't want to know, etc. The ForeRunner 410 is cheaper with about the same feature set but I found the touch bezel on the 405 weird, and it was more bigger-er.

Although if you don't care about the GPS or heart monitor aspects - spare part from CatEye and be happy.


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## douglasbb (Dec 7, 2011)

Srode said:


> Garmin 500 is the best IMHO You can get them for around $200, or 300 with cadence and heart rate sensors - all wireless ANT+ and it will upload files to many tracking software options computer or online.


Is there a consensus yet on the new 510 model?


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

yeah, i wish i didn't strip the damn cover lol!! The cover wouldn't budge. But my guess is, it was because of all the road grime that had accumulated on it. And had practically welded the cover shut..

No need for epoxy since the cover is still on the receiver.. Would be nice if i was able to get it off.. but its stuck on there pretty good...

I went as far as using a hammer and a flat head to try to nudge it loose.. No dice and wouldn't budge....

I love the Cateye Double Wireless.. But is afraid if I purchase another one the same thing may happen in the future... 

I never had thought of calling their customer service line for advice. I guess I could give that a try. But not sure what kind of advice they can offer.. Since I had already beat up the sensor pretty badly...

Easiest route is to purchase a new one.... Even though the Garmins are quite pricey and a little out of my league... I'll consider all of options that everyone had recommended. 

Thanks!


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## jfd986 (Jul 17, 2011)

If I didn't need a heart rate monitor, I'd go in for this:

Amazon.com: Sigma BC 1609 STS Double Wireless Bicycle Speedometer: Sports & Outdoors

There are some negative reviews, but honestly I used sigma on my old bike (albeit wireless) and it's never done me wrong.

I switched to garneau when I came back to Canada because I wanted something wireless and it was the cheapest thing on craigslist. Then when I wanted to switch to a heart rate monitor the polar cs100 was the cheapest thing on craigslist (kijiji). I'd sell you my garneau if the backlight worked, and if the cadence sensor mount wasn't cracked haha


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

For a while, I was just using a wired Cateye. To some extent, I feel like the cycling computers priced in between the bare bones models and the high-end ones are an unhappy medium. For $100 for the wireless one, you don't get to download data afterwards or program workouts, but you still paid two or three times as much as for a basic wired unit that has better battery life and the same feature set. Running the wire is really not that big a deal, IMO.

Also try putting yours in the fridge or the freezer, and if you're really ready to throw it out, try using a little tri-flow on the edge of the battery cover. Probably not a great thing to use right next to electronics in general, but if you were going to throw it out anyway, the worst is that you still throw it out. I think I'd be more ready to risk that than the hammer, actually.

Is it the little computer part, or the sensor that you can't get open? Because there's one less battery on the wired version... and the cover is fairly well protected, too.


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

AndrwSwitch,

Thanks for the informative response! Its the actual receiver that is zip tied to the chainstay. Not the unit that has all the digital read outs and buttons. 

as you can see in the picture, the horizontal slot thats on the receiver is sealed shut (because of grime)... The plastic is pretty soft and can be stripped rather easily, at least it was for me..


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

jfd986 said:


> If I didn't need a heart rate monitor, I'd go in for this:
> 
> Amazon.com: Sigma BC 1609 STS Double Wireless Bicycle Speedometer: Sports & Outdoors
> 
> ...


JFD,

Thanks for the recommedation! I was actually considering this as a replacement. But when i was reading the description, it says, " Optional cadence measurement".

But on the actual Sigma site, it says cadence comes standard with this particular model. I wasn't sure what that meant... and wasn't able to find anything online that states otherwise.

At first i thought it was just like the Cateye Double wireless... Where cadence came standard. I know there are other computers, such as Garmin's where cadence is an option and will have to buy the cadence receiver if i want that option.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

eugenetsang said:


> I never had thought of calling their customer service line for advice. I guess I could give that a try. But *not sure what kind of advice they can offer.. *


You won't know unless you call. :wink5:


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

eugenetsang said:


> Thanks for the informative response! Its the actual receiver that is zip tied to the chainstay. Not the unit that has all the digital read outs and buttons.
> 
> as you can see in the picture, the horizontal slot thats on the receiver is sealed shut (because of grime)... The plastic is pretty soft and can be stripped rather easily, at least it was for me..


The picture was a catalog shot. But I think maybe I know what you're talking about - just that the slot is so caked with grime that you can't get a coin or a screw driver in there anymore?

Try soap.  Or detergent, maybe. I was thinking you were able to get some decent purchase on the slot, but the cover was still stuck. You could also work on getting the grit out with the tip of a knife or an old spoke or something along those lines - some sort of a pick. Don't try to open it - just see if you can push the grit out of the slot. Should make things a lot easier. :wink5:

If all else fails, I wouldn't be surprised if you can get the sensor only, as a spare.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

eugenetsang said:


> ... on the actual Sigma site, it says cadence comes standard with this particular model. I wasn't sure what that meant... and wasn't able to find anything online that states otherwise.


I believe there are two different models. The BC1609/ STS and STS Cadence.


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

AndrwSwitch - 

"The picture was a catalog shot. But I think maybe I know what you're talking about - just that the slot is so caked with grime that you can't get a coin or a screw driver in there anymore?"

I was using a 1/2 dollar. which was perfect for the slot. Since then, the slot had been stripped pretty badly and is rounded off. I cant get enough torque to turn the seal either...

Pretty much at this point, the cover is pretty shot... I'll see if Cateye sells a spare receiver. If not... time for a new computer.

Like always, Thanks for the all the useful advice. If this happens again in the future, I now know what to do first!


Also Thanks PJ352! I was getting confused... I thought my mind was playing tricks on me lol.


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## jfd986 (Jul 17, 2011)

PJ warned me about this a while ago when i bought the computer, and i ended up getting the sts cadence, and it came with the sensor. I may have bought a replacement wire kit from REI, but im pretty sure i bought the unit itself off amazon, though im not sure if it was that link. Ill look and post if its still in my purchase history


Edit: this may be reposting, but just to be sure:

Sigma BC 1609 Cadence Bicycle Speedometer:Amazon:Sports & Outdoors

According tot he reviews, this one has a cadence sensor withthe computer


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## marcusc (Jan 31, 2013)

To those with cadence measurement, did it improve your performance/endurance?

I was about to pull the trigger on the Cateye double wireless, but now I'm wondering if I really need cadence?

Do you guys actually look at it, or is it just "there"?


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## jfd986 (Jul 17, 2011)

In a word, yes.

To explain, consider this. Say you did 10 miles in, 14th gear on a ten-speed drivetrain with a compact double. Speed = stroke rate x gear size, so youre in the 14th gear, and youre doing 50 revolutions of the crank per minute. Now lets say you drop down to 11th gear and do 90 revolutions per minute, instead of 50 in 14th. Multiply the stroke rate and the gear size (i do not think that is the correct way to express gear size but i am too pressed for time to look it up, im sure someone will quickly correct me) for each example, for the first example you should get a raw number of 700, for the second youll get 990, and so you see your speed is higher if you gear down and spin up, AND since gearing down means your muscles are working st a lower intensity, they fatigue slower which means you can hold that average speed for longer.

Let me know if that all makes sense.


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## marcusc (Jan 31, 2013)

jfd986 said:


> In a word, yes.
> 
> To explain, consider this. Say you did 10 miles in, 14th gear on a ten-speed drivetrain with a compact double. Speed = stroke rate x gear size, so youre in the 14th gear, and youre doing 50 revolutions of the crank per minute. Now lets say you drop down to 11th gear and do 90 revolutions per minute, instead of 50 in 14th. Multiply the stroke rate and the gear size (i do not think that is the correct way to express gear size but i am too pressed for time to look it up, im sure someone will quickly correct me) for each example, for the first example you should get a raw number of 700, for the second youll get 990, and so you see your speed is higher if you gear down and spin up, AND since gearing down means your muscles are working st a lower intensity, they fatigue slower which means you can hold that average speed for longer.
> 
> Let me know if that all makes sense.


It does make sense, and I appreciate the reply. 

So essentially, there's a cadence where the body is most efficient, but is that true for everyone? I would have assumed it would vary so widely based on numerous factors. How your legs are feeling (sore/fresh), how long your riding for (sprint vs. endurance), the terrain (hill/flat), are you riding in a group vs solo (drafting). I thought these factors would change the required cadence so much that it would almost render the computer useless. But I guess that's a newbie assumption, and I should stop being a cheap ass!


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## jfd986 (Jul 17, 2011)

Youre right, cadence does vary widely based on fitness and experience, but in general one should try to maintain as smooth a cadence as possible (ie not mashing as much as possible) and a computer can help with his because you can get it, figure out what cadence you normally maintain, then try downshifting and finding out how much higher your carence can go while you maintain the same speed (you'll see the speed as well). So basically, while youre pushing for 15 mph, look at your cadence, drop a gear and see if you can spin faster (higher cadence) and hole up the same speed. If you can, drop more until it becomes impossible (ie your power output is too low) to maintain the same speed with a high cadence. Then youll know that, for that gear, on a course of that elevation with that wind resistance, youll be able to maintain 15 mph *optimally* if you spin at x cadence. 

It varis widely from person to person, but the measurements and comparison method still make the computer quite useful. To generalize, 80-90 is good, higher than 90 even better for something like a climb, i do around 90-95 myself.

It gets more complicated and the thigs you can measure change ( heart rate, power, etc) but starting with cadence makes a major difference.

Never stop being a cheap ass. I was raised as one and will continue to sweat every purchase greater than $20 make for my bike or for my gear.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

marcusc said:


> To those with cadence measurement, did it improve your performance/endurance?
> 
> I was about to pull the trigger on the Cateye double wireless, but now I'm wondering if I really need cadence?
> 
> Do you guys actually look at it, or is it just "there"?


Hasn't made me faster or given me more endurance so far.

I think that the usefulness of data depends a lot on the person and the goal. And of course, you have to actually use it!

I consider my adult riding practice as having started when I was 14 and commuting to school by bike. I really just wanted to get from A to B without undue effort or allowing the bus to waste my time. Over time, I got into riding for the sake of riding, and I got my first nice road bike when I was 19. I started paying a little more attention to technique. I think that I developed a fairly smooth pedal stroke on my mountain bike - it's easy to spin out the rear wheel by pedaling push-push or stab-stab, so, at least if mountain biking involves climbing fire roads or singletrack during dry seasons, one learns to pedal spin-spin, or at least get rid of the hard engagement at the beginning of the stroke and the useless downward shove at the end, when the crank arm is already pointing the wrong way. I learned to develop a fairly high cadence on my road bike, just paying attention to gear selection based on the idea that one does well to be in the lowest (or second-lowest, maybe) gear in which one can still put power into the system.

So I feel like I had fairly efficient pedaling technique before I ever owned a cycling computer, let alone a cadence sensor.

I do have a cadence sensor now, and I even sometimes look at the reading. It turns out I developed a selected cadence somewhere around 100 just trying to be smooth and choose efficient gears. But for some purposes, there may be a reason to choose a cadence other than what's most intuitive. I think for cyclocross racing (which I'm swearing I won't do this year  ) there's some benefit for those of us who tend to be high spinners in training to use a lower cadence effectively. I think for track racing, there's a really big benefit in learning to use higher cadences than my intuitive comfort zone effectively - with only one gear, a wider "power band" is very useful, more so than on a multi-speed bike, where it's still useful.

A lot of people come up with some bizarre ideas about how they're going to get stronger by pushing a big gear, and I think that for some people, the feedback can be useful because it gives a quantity to compare against discussions of cadence on the 'net. There's been some study and there's some evidence for the idea that many people's optimum falls somewhere around 90. But since cadence can feel very subjective, I think it can make it a lot easier to know what I'm really doing if I have a computer to glance down at, when I'm trying to do a workout that has some prescriptive elements in terms of cadence. In the past, I've also measured my cadence with a stop watch. It's quite easy, especially on a trainer - count the number of times my right knee comes up in fifteen seconds, multiply by four. I think if someone has identified a bad habit, like tending to push a really tall gear, it can be beneficial to have a computer with a cadence display. You can glance down any time and have some feedback about what you're doing. While I generally do okay just shifting down when I feel like I'm pushing too hard, that's something that people can easily "un-calibrate" doing some kinds of workout or by developing the habit of pushing really tall gears in the first place.

A fancy computer that records data points over time, which I have now, can be nice because it means I don't need to rely on an inexpensive computer's programming concerning averaging, which often yields a really useless number, effected by starts, stops, periods of coasting, climbs out of the saddle, etc. to get an idea of what I'm doing with cadence. A histogram often tells a much more useful story.

I do think it's important to work on having good pedaling technique. I don't think you need a computer at all, but you may want one.

So kind of a long version of "it depends." But you'll have to get used to that with bicycles. I have to say that I've been quite happy riding without a computer at all for a long time, and part of my choice to have one that's in a watch now is that it's really easy not to look at it. Think about what you want from cycling and what you want from your computer.


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## Mavtek (Jan 30, 2013)

I got a Cannondale for $15 at Nashbar, it works...... Post count getting close.....


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

marcusc said:


> To those with cadence measurement, did it improve your performance/endurance?
> 
> I was about to pull the trigger on the Cateye double wireless, but now I'm wondering if I really need cadence?
> 
> Do you guys actually look at it, or is it just "there"?


I have to think back about 25 years to answer your question, but yes, a cadence computer not only helped me improve performance/ endurance, but also helped me smooth my pedal stroke and save the knee I _didn't_ hurt (along with the one I did) due to riding with too low cadence. 

Although it's written for triathletes/ racers, I think the link below will provide you with some useful info. IMO/E the principles also apply to recreational riders. 

Cycling Cadence


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## marcusc (Jan 31, 2013)

*jfd989, AndrwSwtch**, and PJ352**, thank you very much for your input.

I think I will go for the Cateye Double Wireless for now and eventually one of those Garmins. 

Although I don't think cadence will matter when I commute (35 minutes or so), it will be nice to have on the longer rides to save my knees! The right one already clicks from the gym, so it'd be nice to preserve the left one!
*


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## jfd986 (Jul 17, 2011)

Knee damage is based on cumulative wear and prolonged usage. Cadence matters. I wouldnt buy a fancy garmin if i were you unless i was bad with directions and couldnt navigate ( NB i am bad with directions and a poor navigator. Right now i have time to map my ride beforehand but one day when that becomes impossible only then will i shell out for something with a gps). 

And youre welcome.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

My fancy Garmin doesn't have maps.  I wanted it for the data recording and workout guide functions.

One of the nice things about our bodies is that with attention, knee problems can be worked through. I had problems of my own, though more related to alignment and position than cadence, and it sucked for a while, but when I made a serious commitment to getting better, did PT, and trained conservatively for a while, I did. I'd encourage anyone to talk to a sports doctor, a physical therapist, a fitter and a coach in whatever combination and order you can fit in and afford. IME, it's something to take seriously, but not something that's inevitable or irreparable.

Since you're getting the computer with cadence, it should be interesting to see how fast you tend to pedal.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

marcusc said:


> I think I will go for the Cateye Double Wireless for now...
> 
> Although I don't think cadence will matter when I commute (35 minutes or so), it will be nice to have on the longer rides...


Obviously, I think you've made a good decision. I do think having the cadence function will help on shorter rides, because it'll show you the effects of shifting one higher/ one lower gear has on cadence when cruising, which (IMO/E) in turn promotes a smoother pedal stroke.

But, cadence is just a part of the picture. The goal is to not only minimize stress on the knees, but also to make a habit of developing an _efficient_ pedals stoke. In that vein, here's a link to a vid you may find useful - coincidentally, at the same site I linked to previously.

VIDEO: Pedaling Technique


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## marcusc (Jan 31, 2013)

jfd986 said:


> Knee damage is based on cumulative wear and prolonged usage. Cadence matters. I wouldnt buy a fancy garmin if i were you unless i was bad with directions and couldnt navigate ( NB i am bad with directions and a poor navigator. Right now i have time to map my ride beforehand but one day when that becomes impossible only then will i shell out for something with a gps).
> 
> And youre welcome.





AndrwSwitch said:


> My fancy Garmin doesn't have maps.  I wanted it for the data recording and workout guide functions.
> 
> One of the nice things about our bodies is that with attention, knee problems can be worked through. I had problems of my own, though more related to alignment and position than cadence, and it sucked for a while, but when I made a serious commitment to getting better, did PT, and trained conservatively for a while, I did. I'd encourage anyone to talk to a sports doctor, a physical therapist, a fitter and a coach in whatever combination and order you can fit in and afford. IME, it's something to take seriously, but not something that's inevitable or irreparable.
> 
> Since you're getting the computer with cadence, it should be interesting to see how fast you tend to pedal.


I'm sure I'll find a way to justify the Garmin eventually, for now my iPhone will have to serve as my GPS! They have universal mounts for $15, which seem more realistic than the $500 Garmin...

Also my knees really aren't that bad, just when they are overly stressed they get a little sore. Probably from 22 years of skiing...!



PJ352 said:


> Obviously, I think you've made a good decision. I do think having the cadence function will help on shorter rides, because it'll show you the effects of shifting one higher/ one lower gear has on cadence when cruising, which (IMO/E) in turn promotes a smoother pedal stroke.
> 
> But, cadence is just a part of the picture. The goal is to not only minimize stress on the knees, but also to make a habit of developing an _efficient_ pedals stoke. In that vein, here's a link to a vid you may find useful - coincidentally, at the same site I linked to previously.
> 
> VIDEO: Pedaling Technique


Seems like a great site, I'll read up on all the links I can!

I've tried to focus on my pedal stroke on the trainer. It feels a bit forced and awkward, but I'm sure I'll pick it up eventually, thanks for the link.


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## spivi (Feb 15, 2013)

*ANT+ sensors*

Industry is moving to ANT+ sensors, make sure you're buying a compatible sensor/set which will also be compatible with other devices.

Google "spivi home edition required hardware", the page includes links to some popular devices,


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

On the contrary, the industry looks like it's getting more diverse. See all the new Bluetooth variants that are coming out.

A cynical person might wonder if you're just trying to promote your workout.


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## spivi (Feb 15, 2013)

AndrwSwitch said:


> On the contrary, the industry looks like it's getting more diverse. See all the new Bluetooth variants that are coming out.
> 
> A cynical person might wonder if you're just trying to promote your workout.


Take a look at the "thisisant dot com/directory" website, they have a huge list of compatible devices.


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## zantaff (Feb 18, 2013)

Honestly, I'd say get the least expensive one with the features you want. They pretty much all do the same thing, and unless you go WAY expensive, I wouldn't worry about it.


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## davez26 (Nov 15, 2010)

I use a Vetta 100? HR. Does HR, you can do cadence, you can do it all wireless, you can set 2 different wheel sizes for different bikes, and you can order it in custom colors if that's your thing from the vetta website. Mines at least 10 years old, and i think they are about $60? or so last i checked.


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## maxfrm (Jan 15, 2012)

I use the Sigma BC2209MHR, its around the same price as what you just had, It may have more features, I enjoy the small size, see if that may work for your needs


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## Wuaname (Mar 5, 2013)

I have a Garmin 210 gps watch for my running.. and use it when I take a ride on my bike, but now I want to measure my cadence, so I can focus more on my training on the new bike... What's the simplest suggestion without having to buy a whole gps for the bike to measure cadence?

I'd like something that is "clean" on the bike, ie no wires, the least zip ties the better etc...


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Wuaname said:


> I have a Garmin 210 gps watch for my running.. and use it when I take a ride on my bike, but now I want to measure my cadence, so I can focus more on my training on the new bike... What's the simplest suggestion without having to buy a whole gps for the bike to measure cadence?
> 
> I'd like something that is "clean" on the bike, ie no wires, the least zip ties the better etc...


Buy a whole GPS for the bike to measure cadence.

Seriously, though, it depends on your use case. Do you want to be able to do anything with the data or just have it front of you?

There are some ForeRunners that are compatible with a speed/cadence sensor. Or you can get an Edge. Obviously that's the new GPS option. Or, you can get one of many inexpensive wireless bike computers and have it be a separate thing. This thread's got a bunch of suggestions already.


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## rm -rf (Feb 27, 2006)

*EDIT*--I didn't see the date of the original post. This is probably way too late.

If Cateye isn't any help (try contacting them first):

So, the cover is stuck, and you rounded off the coin/screwdriver slot?

Try a large nail tapped at an angle near the edge of the cover, to break it loose counterclockwise. Try lightly tapping at 4 or 5 spots around the edge of the cover

And / or:

Use a Dremel with a cutoff wheel to cut a new slot at 90 degrees to the old one. Cut the slot very slowly, and use a damp paper towel to cool the plastic so it doesn't melt. 

For a "screwdriver" to unscrew the cover, you need something like a cheap, stiff putty knife, cut down with a hacksaw to the width of the battery cover's new slot. That would work better than trying to match a coin's curvature when you cut the new slot.


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## Tracy T (Nov 5, 2012)

I have the v3. it looks like the same thing as yours but with a HR monitor. After reading your story I put some lip gloss on the battery holder. Shouldn't get stuck now!


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