# Touring frame vs a cyclocross frame???



## llama31 (Jan 13, 2006)

Hi all. My wife wants a new bike as an alternative to her Cannondale race bike which she uses for triathlons and training. This 2nd bike will be for touring, light off-roading (MUTs, fire roads, smooth trails), and some road riding when she doesn't feel like riding the Cannondale.

We want to keep the cost down and the frame has to have rear rack mounts. She has no preference between steel and alu. Options at this point include Ibex X-ray, Surly Cross Check, Bianchi Volpe. So, in general, what are the differences between a cross frame and a touring frame? Extra bottle mounts on most touring frames, right? But what about geometry, ride feel, tire clearnance? Any other factors to consider? Thanks a lot.


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## StageHand (Dec 27, 2002)

From what I've seen (not all that much, really), cross bikes have a higher bottom bracket than touring bikes, and touring bikes have a longer wheelbase (chainstays and fork rake). You may also encounter steeper angles on a cross bike, but that depends on what bikes you're considering. Cross bikes might be stiffer, especially the ones built for racing only. For non-technical off-road use, any bike with ample clearance will work, but if the trails are tight, or slightly technical, a cross bike will have a slight advantage.

FWIW, a lot of people on this board have been impressed with the Volpe for commuting and light off-road use.


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## brianmcg (Oct 12, 2002)

A touring frame will generally have much longer chainstays for added pannier clearance and a more stable ride, and a lower bottom bracket. 

If you are doing a lot of trail and dirt riding on a touring frame you may not like the lower bottom braket. 

Also a touring frame will probably have a much longer headtube to get you in a more upright position. 

I set up a Surly Long Haul Trucker with 700x35mm tires, and so far it does great on dirt roads, but I haven't taken it "off-roading" so I can't comment on that.

Compare the geometry of the CC and the LHT on surly's website and you can see a lot of the differences.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

"Touring" implies loading up the bike, taking a long trip and carrying all your equipment and likely camping gear. If the bike has the required gear range and you pull a trailer one can very successfully tour with a cyclo-cross bike. 

OTOH if you want to use panniers for that kind of touring a cyclo-cross bike will usually have chainstays that are shorter then you would like and a slightly higher center of gravity (your heels may hit large panniers and the bike isn't quite as stable as a real tourer).

Touring bikes with their lower bottom brackets and longer wheel bases are not quite as agile off road in the toughest conditions. We are really splitting hairs to make these distinctions between the 2 kinds of bikes since it is only at the extreme of either use (cyclo-cross racing and/or loaded touring) that the differences matter.

The bikes you mentioned are fine general use bikes that are great values. These bikes are good enough to get started and useful enough to never require upgrading unless she really gets involved in a big way with either activity.


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## khill (Mar 4, 2004)

Another variation between some of the models you mentioned is the rear spacing on the frame. 

Some cyclocross and touring bikes have 132.5mm or 135mm rear spacing to allow (or require) the use of mountain bike hubs rather than standard road hubs (130mm). For example, the Ibex has 135mm rear spacing (MTB hubs), the Surly Cross-Check has 132.5mm rear spacing (road or MTB hubs) and the Bianchi has 130mm rear spacing (road hubs).

Not a big deal for some people but it can be if you like to switch wheels between bikes or if you'd like to be able to use a spare wheelset in case of a problem.

- khill


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## llama31 (Jan 13, 2006)

*didn't realize that about the Ibex*



khill said:


> Another variation between some of the models you mentioned is the rear spacing on the frame.
> 
> Some cyclocross and touring bikes have 132.5mm or 135mm rear spacing to allow (or require) the use of mountain bike hubs rather than standard road hubs (130mm). For example, the Ibex has 135mm rear spacing (MTB hubs), the Surly Cross-Check has 132.5mm rear spacing (road or MTB hubs) and the Bianchi has 130mm rear spacing (road hubs).
> 
> ...


I didn't know the Ibex had 135mm spacing. That might be a factor. Thanks.


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## Meat Foot (Jul 13, 2005)

llama31 said:


> I didn't know the Ibex had 135mm spacing. That might be a factor. Thanks.


The Surly will be able to run 130 or 135 mm spacing. Steel can be "cold set" (I think that is the term). I know of one person that has put a 135 mm hub on a Volpe with good results. FWIW, I have a Volpe and really dig it. I need to get it out on some dirt paths/logging roads.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

I commute on a Gunnar Crosshairs cyclocross frame. It is a steel frame and fork with rear rack mounts and eyelets on the fork for fenders. I double up on the rear eyelets for fenders and a rack. The rear spacing is 130mm. The ride is rock solid and reassuring. I use some old Chorus 9 components with avid cantilever brakes. I use 39/48 chainrings in the front with a 12-23 in the back. I have some 12-26 cassettes on order. I use panniers on my rack and had to swap out some hardware to allow heel clearance for my size 13 feet. Any rack should come with enough hardware to make it work.


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## Spinfinity (Feb 3, 2004)

*I'd be one of them.*



OverStuffed said:


> FWIW, a lot of people on this board have been impressed with the Volpe for commuting and light off-road use.


Have recommended them to a brother-in-law and a close friend. Both have been very pleased with how useful and versatile they are. In general, I'm happy to put racing tires on a touring bike when I'm not touring or riding dirt roads and enjoy the comfort of its long wheel base and low bottom bracket. I've never been in a bike race except one triathlon and stiff frames with short wheel bases don't do it for me.


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## lx93 (Jun 14, 2007)

bigbill said:


> I commute on a Gunnar Crosshairs cyclocross frame. It is a steel frame and fork with rear rack mounts and eyelets on the fork for fenders. I double up on the rear eyelets for fenders and a rack. The rear spacing is 130mm. The ride is rock solid and reassuring. I use some old Chorus 9 components with avid cantilever brakes. I use 39/48 chainrings in the front with a 12-23 in the back. I have some 12-26 cassettes on order. I use panniers on my rack and had to swap out some hardware to allow heel clearance for my size 13 feet. Any rack should come with enough hardware to make it work.


Bill,

What kind of panniers do you use on your Gunnar? I've noticed that Jannd's Expedition Panniers seem to be shaped ideally for this purpose (commuting on a Cyclocross bike)

Yes, I know that this is an old thread.


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## Thommy (Sep 23, 2003)

There's the Soma Double Cross to consider. Long chainstays, eyeletts front and back and not too pricey. I used mine for three years to commute to work on with full bags front and back. 1 1/8" headset, 27.2 seatpost sizing and a great all round mule. The Gunnar Cross hairs in my opinion is one of the better bikes for the money (little more than the Soma or Surly). If cash isn't an option then you might consider a Waterford Touring frame. They are the bomb!


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

Some other bikes/frames to consider: Soma Smoothie, ES or Doublecross. Salsa Casseroll or La Cruz. All of these frames have eyelets and braze-ons for racks and fenders. The La Cruz needs disc brakes.

The Rivendell Bleriot is another option but is hampered by its use of 650b wheels/tires.


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## M.J. (Jan 28, 2004)

lx93 said:


> Bill,
> 
> What kind of panniers do you use on your Gunnar? I've noticed that Jannd's Expedition Panniers seem to be shaped ideally for this purpose (commuting on a Cyclocross bike)
> 
> Yes, I know that this is an old thread.



Jannd's Expedition Panniers are great - couldn't reccomend them enough - I use them on my cross bike - that they telescope up rather than out helps on the shorter chainstays


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## undies (Oct 13, 2005)

tarwheel2 said:


> Some other bikes/frames to consider: Soma Smoothie, ES or Doublecross. Salsa Casseroll or La Cruz. All of these frames have eyelets and braze-ons for racks and fenders.


Another is the Specialized Tricross. It even has low-rider mounts on the front, although the fork is carbon so you probably don't want to put huge loads up there.


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## superjohnny (May 16, 2006)

gvhbikes will sell you a Soma Smoothie for $1300 built with a Rival kit. If you are looking for something a bit more comfortable I bet Tom will switch it for a Smoothie ES if you ask him nicely.


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## lx93 (Jun 14, 2007)

M.J. said:


> Jannd's Expedition Panniers are great - couldn't reccomend them enough - I use them on my cross bike - that they telescope up rather than out helps on the shorter chainstays


Thanx for the feedback. If it works & lets me ride a cyclocross or regular road bike instead of a 50-lb (feels that way- I know, they're actually not that bad) touring bike, then $90/pannier is not so painful.


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## sometimerider (Sep 21, 2007)

There is (for at least a couple of days) this sale on a Perf. aluminum cross frame, $230 - http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=23579&estore_ID=1550

It appears to have full rack and fender rear braze-ons, but only fender in the front. Also uses top of top tube cable routing (typical of a cross bike). Canti brake mounts. It has 435 mm chainstays - which are fairly long. Check the geometry carefully.


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## single1x1 (Mar 26, 2005)

Well I've liked my cross check for just about any type of ridding. The handling is competent if perhaps a little borring, well for cross racing at least. Mine has usually been a single speed racer, with a FW or a fixed gear, but I have ridden it on the road and with fenders and a rack, though the clearance on the rear can be a little tight with Ortrib back roller panniers on the back, but the handling with panniers still is alright.
I recently got a new SS race cross bike this fall- a Kelly SS cross frame and the cross check just got re-built as a geared cross/ rain bike, chorus shifters sq taper 105 cranks 48/39 cross gearing 12-26 9speed cassette and with veloce front and shimano 8sp rear derailers, should be sweet as a allround rain/rack bike. I ride it for the first time Sat morning with my bike shop race team, should be fun. The long haul trucker should have extra rear rack clearance(I'm a size 12 foot myself) I have't had a problem with the BB height of the crosscheck though and I don't plan on a front mounted rack.


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