# Which brakes are dual pivot?



## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

I believe the latest Ultegra is dual pivot. How about the latest DA? I thought they went to differential braking in the recent past, but I just read an ad of 'compact dual pivot' for the latest DA.

You hear all these guys complaining about poor braking on carbon rims. Must be Campy fanboys. Get real - get dual pivots!


----------



## Mark McM (Jun 18, 2005)

*Dual pivots & carbon rims*



Clevor said:


> I believe the latest Ultegra is dual pivot. How about the latest DA? I thought they went to differential braking in the recent past, but I just read an ad of 'compact dual pivot' for the latest DA.


*All* of Shimano's current sidepull brake (i.e. "road" brakes) are dual pivot, both front and rear (Dura-Ace, Ultegra, 105, Tiagra, Sora).



Clevor said:


> You hear all these guys complaining about poor braking on carbon rims. Must be Campy fanboys. Get real - get dual pivots!


All Campagnolo front brakes (where the real power is) are dual pivots. Using a single pivot brake in the rear does not affect maximum braking, because the rear brake does little of the work anyway.

The biggest differences in braking performance are from the pads, not the calipers. Different rim materials work better with different pads, so optimizing carbon rim braking is mostly about pad selection, not caliper selection.


----------



## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

Mark McM said:


> *All Campagnolo front brakes (where the real power is) are dual pivots. Using a single pivot brake in the rear does not affect maximum braking, because the rear brake does little of the work anyway.*


*

Thanks for clearing that up (I haven't installed my Campy stuff yet). I figured the dual pivot was the rear; on the front, it might cause lockups or endos. It's funny because Campy says the reason they go differential is for better modulation. But with dual pivot front and single rear, you'd think endos would be a problem.

However using dual pivot on the rear also should help a bit on the carbon rims .

In the area of brakes, Campy's reputation has faded (pardon the pun) over the last few years. Formerly the standard for braking, DA has overtaken them in the last 3 years. Bicycling Mag is not afraid to make a call on this whenever the issue comes up. And now with Campy's skeleton design for 2007 (which some say is flexy), the crown firmly sits on DA's head - being dual pivot certainly don't hurt.*


----------



## Mark McM (Jun 18, 2005)

*Endo = operator error*



Clevor said:


> Thanks for clearing that up (I haven't installed my Campy stuff yet). I figured the dual pivot was the rear; on the front, it might cause lockups or endos. It's funny because Campy says the reason they go differential is for better modulation. But with dual pivot front and single rear, you'd think endos would be a problem.


I'd hardly call an endo an equipment problem, since it is entirely within the control of the rider (i.e., don't squeeze so hard, or back off when the rear end gets light). Rear wheel skids are a far more common problem - when the levers are squeezed with the same hand force, the rear wheel will start to skid well before the endo point (and since most people are right handed, they are more apt to squeeze the rear brake sooner and harder anyway).

Endos due to braking on a road bike are primarily operator error. The two most common scenarios are: A) Sudden braking without bracing with the arms causes the rider to shoot forward off the saddle, and when their thighs hit the handlebars it causes them to flip forward over the front wheel; and B) a rider feels their rear wheel lighten up and either start to skid or actually rise off the ground, and their "panic" reaction is to squeeze the handelbars harder - but since their fingers are on the brake levers, it just causes more braking, causing (or continuing) the endo. In either case, it is poor technique or bad reactions from the rider, and not an equipment flaw.


----------

