# Rear wheel not spinning freely



## BostonG

Just got my whole drivetrain replaced - chain, front rings, cassette, and pulleys. 

I noticed when I manually spin my rear wheel, it doesn't spin for nearly as long as the front wheel - it doesn't matter which way I spin it. It still seems like it's dragging and stops way early.

It's not rubbing against the brake or anything. And the thing is, I never really tested it before - maybe it always spun crappily. I just happened to give it a whirl when I got it home from the shop. This was a very reputable shop that did the work, BTW (not that they can't make mistakes). 

My front wheel spins and spins and spins for a looong time, and the rear just conks out so early - much earlier than the front, it makes me think something is definitely wrong, but I don't know what or even if it is wrong or if it's normal.

I am using the stock wheels - Mavic CX22, and have been since I got the bike. It's got around 8k miles on it. I am light, 125lbs but ride it hard sometimes (not very often, though). Don't know if any of that matters.

So my question is - is that completely normal or is something off? Could it be my hub (I didn't have any work done on the hub)? Or my cassette? 

Thanks all.


----------



## tlg

Take the wheel out of the bike. Hold the axle and spin in your hands. Feel any resistance? Any grinding? Does it spin and spin or stop quickly.

Is the QR over tightened?


----------



## ericm979

The rear will never spin as freely as the front. There's a freewheel and at least two additional bearings in the rear wheel, all of which add drag.

Test as tlg suggested wheel off the bike and turn the axle by hand. If it is stiff or rough at all, then there's a problem.

Rough means a bad bearing. Stiff is either a bad bearing or bad preload adjustment.


----------



## cxwrench

I'm kinda surprised that the OP can't just look at (and listen to) a rear wheel and figure out why this is the case.


----------



## goodboyr

CX.......you've been on this forum for how long and you're still surprised...?


----------



## cxwrench

goodboyr said:


> CX.......you've been on this forum for how long and you're still surprised...?


As soon as I hit "post" that's exactly what I thought!


----------



## CliffordK

Does it have loose bearings or sealed bearings?
How do the cones feel? Tight? Loose? 

It never hurts to pull apart and repack the bearings and readjust the cones every few years or so.


----------



## oberwil

If it's a mavic wheel, it may be the delrin polyethylene washer in the freehub. It requires some mineral oil every few 100 miles. It may be seizing on the freehub and hub.


----------



## BostonG

cxwrench said:


> I'm kinda surprised that the OP can't just look at (and listen to) a rear wheel and figure out why this is the case.


Well, I ride but don’t work much on bikes and am not familiar with what to look for or listen to, hence the reason I am here asking. I mean I can change a tube in no time and do other simple stuff but nothing was obvious to me on this – I checked for brake rub so I’m not completely useless. Can you help with a thought on what I should look for or listen to?



goodboyr said:


> CX.......you've been on this forum for how long and you're still surprised...?





cxwrench said:


> As soon as I hit "post" that's exactly what I thought!


Ummm, OK. I’m stumped with the snarkiness...did I do something to you guys? Or is it just fun to imply that I’m an idiot? 

This forum is for asking questions about these matters correct? I thought this was a place where you guys are willing to lend your expertise. So I’m not sure what you’re surprised at...is it my stupidity? I mean can you guys help or do you just want to banter about how dumb I am? I think you’ve been doing this too long.


----------



## BostonG

tlg said:


> Take the wheel out of the bike. Hold the axle and spin in your hands. Feel any resistance? Any grinding? Does it spin and spin or stop quickly.
> 
> Is the QR over tightened?


Thanks, I'll check those things.


----------



## BostonG

CliffordK said:


> Does it have loose bearings or sealed bearings?
> How do the cones feel? Tight? Loose?
> 
> It never hurts to pull apart and repack the bearings and readjust the cones every few years or so.





CliffordK said:


> Does it have loose bearings or sealed bearings?
> How do the cones feel? Tight? Loose?
> 
> It never hurts to pull apart and repack the bearings and readjust the cones every few years or so.


I believe they are sealed bearings. I have no idea about the cones – I’ve never worked on hubs or any of those parts.

Maybe I’ll see how complex and time consuming that is and if it’s too much for me, I’ll stop by a shop and see what they say.


----------



## BostonG

oberwil said:


> If it's a mavic wheel, it may be the delrin polyethylene washer in the freehub. It requires some mineral oil every few 100 miles. It may be seizing on the freehub and hub.


The what in the who!? 

Mineral oil on the doohickey every 100 miles! That’s the first I’ve heard of such a thing. I lube my chain and trigger points but have never done anything to the freehub – paid it no attention whatsoever. 

Where do you drip the oil? Do I have to take my hub apart or something?


----------



## tlg

oberwil said:


> If it's a mavic wheel, it may be the delrin polyethylene washer in the freehub. It requires some mineral oil every few 100 miles.


What? I have to pull my wheel apart to lube the freehub every couple rides? 
Where'd you get this from?


----------



## tlg

BostonG said:


> Thanks, I'll check those things.


You mentioned the wheels are Mavic CX22. Those are the rims. What's important to know is what are the hubs?


----------



## wim

BostonG said:


> Can you help with a thought on what I should look for or listen to?


The point is this: when hearing the clicking or buzzing sound made by a wheel that spins while the freehub is stationary, many people instinctively realize that something mechanical is going on in the hub. They then take it one step further and conclude that whatever mechanical is going on in that hub must take some energy from the spinning wheel, slowing it down quickly.

In short: you were noticing the perfectly normal behavior of a rear wheel spinning on a stationary freehub containing spring-loaded pawls. Suggestions about cones and washers and mineral oil are well-meant, but are leading you astray.


----------



## JCavilia

BostonG said:


> The what in the who!?
> 
> Mineral oil on the doohickey every 100 miles! That’s the first I’ve heard of such a thing. I lube my chain and trigger points but have never done anything to the freehub – paid it no attention whatsoever.
> 
> Where do you drip the oil? Do I have to take my hub apart or something?


There is nothing wrong. Your wheel was always that way; they all are, as wim explained. The "spin-down" test is fun, but meaningless.


----------



## cxwrench

BostonG said:


> The what in the who!?
> 
> Mineral oil on the doohickey every 100 miles! That’s the first I’ve heard of such a thing. I lube my chain and trigger points but have never done anything to the freehub – paid it no attention whatsoever.
> 
> Where do you drip the oil? Do I have to take my hub apart or something?


Yes, fun was being poked in your direction. The fact that a rear hub makes noise when freewheeling is considered an indicator that there is something mechanically different going on from a front hub. Obviously this is the drive mechanism. Many of us here would think that anyone that's been riding for a while and has any mechanical inclination at all would understand the difference between front and rear hubs, and that the noise made when freewheeling must be made by some parts coming in contact w/ each other. When this contact is made, one could conclude that drag will be created and that is what slows down the rear hub quicker than the front. Seems a reasonable assumption, yeah? 

Anyway, on to your hub. Since you haven't yet revealed what kind of hub it is, it doesn't really make any sense to educate you on the way the Mavic free hub works and that it actually does need to be lubricated much more often than other brands, but not nearly as often as the ill-informed @oberwil seems to think.


----------



## BostonG

cxwrench said:


> Yes, fun was being poked in your direction. The fact that a rear hub makes noise when freewheeling is considered an indicator that there is something mechanically different going on from a front hub. Obviously this is the drive mechanism. Many of us here would think that anyone that's been riding for a while and has any mechanical inclination at all would understand the difference between front and rear hubs, and that the noise made when freewheeling must be made by some parts coming in contact w/ each other. When this contact is made, one could conclude that drag will be created and that is what slows down the rear hub quicker than the front. Seems a reasonable assumption, yeah?
> 
> Anyway, on to your hub. Since you haven't yet revealed what kind of hub it is, it doesn't really make any sense to educate you on the way the Mavic free hub works and that it actually does need to be lubricated much more often than other brands, but not nearly as often as the ill-informed @oberwil seems to think.


Now there’s good info. Thanks. 

Yes, of course I realize that there are mechanical differences between the front and rear hubs, and that the freewheel creates drag. I wasn’t at all surprised that there was drag, just taken aback at the amount of drag. It’s more than I would have expected. 

Over the years I’ve been riding, I never really noticed the amount of drag and never tested it. I just happened to spin the rear wheel this time after getting my bike back from the shop and it seemed out of place. 

I honestly don’t know what kind of hub it is. It’s whatever came on the wheels of the bike when I bought it. But even if it were the hub, educating me would be a waste of time I think. I would likely have a shop lube it. I’m only good for basic things. 

I don’t know, maybe there isn’t an unusual amount of drag, but it seemed too much. Know what...don’t know why I didn’t think of it before – I’m going to compare it to some of my other bikes and if there is markedly more drag I’ll bring it in to the shop for assessment.

Thanks again.


----------



## Vanquiz

Can you time the rear wheel spinning time to complete stop, that way it can be figured if it's still considered normal, or something indeed is wrong.

You should be at least get couple or few minutes, if it's less than that, something must be not right.


----------



## scottma

How about a video of your wheel spindown?


----------



## BostonG

Vanquiz said:


> Can you time the rear wheel spinning time to complete stop, that way it can be figured if it's still considered normal, or something indeed is wrong.
> 
> You should be at least get couple or few minutes, if it's less than that, something must be not right.


I can spin it super hard or easy so I can't see timing as being very useful. But 2 minutes? No way it'll spin for that long.


----------



## Vanquiz

BostonG said:


> I can spin it super hard or easy so I can't see timing as being very useful. But 2 minutes? No way it'll spin for that long.


As per Scottma suggestion, I think if you can put the video of the rear wheel spinning that would be great.

On mine, I just picked up the rear wheel, give the crank one full turn with my hand, I never really time it, but I'm pretty much sure mine can goes over couple minutes, I will try to time it in few minutes.

But again, we can see better from the video

EDIT : Ahaha, you're right, no way it will spin that long, it just seems to spin longer when I didnt time it. I did couple test, I spin the crank for one full turn, 360 degree, first one was 1.34, second one was 1.43, so yes, it's not more than couple minutes, sorry about that. But at least you can compare it to yours, if your's spin over a minute, that's normal, but if it's only half minutes without the brake rubbing, so, something might be wrong.


----------



## cxwrench

BostonG said:


> Now there’s good info. Thanks.
> 
> Yes, of course I realize that there are mechanical differences between the front and rear hubs, and that the freewheel creates drag. I wasn’t at all surprised that there was drag, just taken aback at the amount of drag. It’s more than I would have expected.
> 
> Over the years I’ve been riding, I never really noticed the amount of drag and never tested it. I just happened to spin the rear wheel this time after getting my bike back from the shop and it seemed out of place.
> 
> I honestly don’t know what kind of hub it is. It’s whatever came on the wheels of the bike when I bought it. But even if it were the hub, educating me would be a waste of time I think. I would likely have a shop lube it. I’m only good for basic things.
> 
> I don’t know, maybe there isn’t an unusual amount of drag, but it seemed too much. Know what...don’t know why I didn’t think of it before – I’m going to compare it to some of my other bikes and if there is markedly more drag I’ll bring it in to the shop for assessment.
> 
> Thanks again.


Does the rear wheel drag seem to be in the hub bearings or in the free hub bearings? You can check by putting the bike in a work stand or just holding the rear wheel off the ground. Pedal it some and then let go of the pedal...do the cranks still spin? If you stop the crank does the chain get pushed forward some and become slack? This would indicate worn free hub bearings or if Mavic a dry/worn bushing.


----------



## CliffordK

The "Drag" from the freehub is pretty meaningless. 

A "spin" test would be done on a truing stand or such without a chain stopping the free rotation of the wheel.


----------



## goodboyr

I have a question that was asked and never answered ......what hub is it? What writing is on the hub? Take a picture of the hub.............
How about this?.....Based on the name on the hub, use the interweb and search for the maintenance instructions for it, then return and ask more specific questions.
And if its a case that you don't want to do maintenance yourself, then dont bother asking maintenance and diagnosis type questions.....just take it to an lbs you trust and have them look at it.
This thread is definitely an exercise in mental masturbation without that info.


----------



## xxl

tlg said:


> What? I have to pull my wheel apart to lube the freehub every couple rides?
> Where'd you get this from?


Possibly from not hitting the "zero" enough times?


----------



## tlg

Vanquiz said:


> As per Scottma suggestion, I think if you can put the video of the rear wheel spinning that would be great.
> 
> On mine, I just picked up the rear wheel, give the crank one full turn with my hand, I never really time it, but I'm pretty much sure mine can goes over couple minutes, I will try to time it in few minutes.
> 
> But again, we can see better from the video
> 
> EDIT : Ahaha, you're right, no way it will spin that long, it just seems to spin longer when I didnt time it. I did couple test, I spin the crank for one full turn, 360 degree, first one was 1.34, second one was 1.43, so yes, it's not more than couple minutes, sorry about that. But at least you can compare it to yours, if your's spin over a minute, that's normal, but if it's only half minutes without the brake rubbing, so, something might be wrong.


All this timing the wheel spin down is pretty useless. There are so many variables it doesn't give you any useful information. Besides, you didn't mention what gear ratio you're using. That alone would have a huge impact on the rotational speed of the wheel.



goodboyr said:


> I have a question that was asked and never answered ......what hub is it? What writing is on the hub? Take a picture of the hub.............
> How about this?.....Based on the name on the hub, use the interweb and search for the maintenance instructions for it, then return and ask more specific questions.
> And if its a case that you don't want to do maintenance yourself, then dont bother asking maintenance and diagnosis type questions.....just take it to an lbs you trust and have them look at it.
> This thread is definitely an exercise in mental masturbation without that info.


Yup. Until he spins the hub in his hand, and identifies the hub, nothing else will be of any use.


----------



## BostonG

tlg said:


> All this timing the wheel spin down is pretty useless. There are so many variables it doesn't give you any useful information. Besides, you didn't mention what gear ratio you're using. That alone would have a huge impact on the rotational speed of the wheel.
> 
> Yup. Until he spins the hub in his hand, and identifies the hub, nothing else will be of any use.


Thanks tlg. It was the hub. I'm not exactly what it was in the hub tough. I guess the bearings. Thw rear wheels on my other bikes all spin much much smoother and longer. 

I took it to the shop today, the guy me how the hub wasn't rotating smoothly, and was kind of crunching as he spun it. He took it to his bench and did some magic - all I saw was his back. He mentioned the con and bearings. It was much smoother afterwards and the wheel spins much better. Further, the QR was tightened way hard. Much harder than I ever tightened it. 

I still don't know what kind of hub it is. There is no writing on it - it's just black all around.

Last thing, there was a washer on the hub that perplexed the guy. None of the others in the shop knew why it was there either. All they could guess was that whoever serviced the bike before put it on there and they don't know why. The shop that serviced the bike before was ok but the guy who serviced it was an arrogant knucklehead so I'm not surprised. 

The wheel is still to spinning as smoothly as my other bikes but it's much smoother than it was.

Edit: I just went to the Specialized website and looked up the specs. The hub brand is to identitied. It just says REAR HUB: Forged alloy, sealed, cassette, QR, 32h. Anyway, thanks for the help and advice.


----------



## ericm979

Most likely that word was cone, as in cup and cone bearings. Which are adjustable for bearing preload.

Look them up on park tool or sheldon brown web sites.


----------



## BostonG

ericm979 said:


> Most likely that word was cone, as in cup and cone bearings. Which are adjustable for bearing preload.
> 
> Look them up on park tool or sheldon brown web sites.


Yeah, I meant cone. I was on my phone when typing so had a bunch of spelling errors.


----------



## hazilim

BostonG: Diagnosing bearing resistance in a rear wheel is a bit more complicated than in a front wheel. There are 2 separate sets of bearings involved - the actual wheel bearings on both sides of the axle, + the bearings in the inside of the freehub.
If you leave the chain on & spin the back wheel, you see the effect of the wheel bearings, the freehub bearings (because the chain is preventing the cassette from turning, + the pawls (these make the clicking sound when you coast). You can time the wheel rotation in this configuration.
Then, remove the chain (easiest if you have a quick link), & spin the wheel again (now the cassette will spin along with the wheel). If the wheel spins WAY longer, the resistance was in the bearings in the freehub.
The freehub is inexpensive & easy to replace. I did this on my 105 hub, & I took all of about 20 minutes. The bearings inside the freehub were not accessible & replacing the freehub was easier than trying to service the bearings.
You can do the experiment described above by yourself. Your LBS can service the wheel bearings or replace the freehub, if necessary.


----------



## inverse_of_zero

Thanks @hazilim for posting with the most useful tip in this thread! I used your ideas to successfully diagnose resistance in my rear wheel and it turned out to be the freehub. Now I need to figure out the problem with my front hub.. 

Sent from my 0PJA10 using Tapatalk


----------

