# Hey Texbike...How 'bout an update on Gord Fraser



## Fivethumbs (Jul 26, 2005)

Since you're the only one here with acutal team MX Leaders I wanted to know how they compare to each other. Are the geometries the same? Do they ride the same or different? Which one is your favorite and why? Inquiring minds...you know.


----------



## texbike (Oct 21, 2004)

*LONG answer.....*



Fivethumbs said:


> Since you're the only one here with acutal team MX Leaders I wanted to know how they compare to each other. Are the geometries the same? Do they ride the same or different? Which one is your favorite and why? Inquiring minds...you know.


Interesting questions there 5T! Both of the bikes are fantastic. 

To answer your questions, there are subtle differences. First the measurements:

The Telekom bike has a 56 cm seattube (CTC) and a 58 cm top tube. 
"GordoMax" has a 55 cm seattube and a 57 cm top tube.

(both of these measurements work very well for me as I have a longer torso and shorter legs)

I haven't measured the chainstay lengths of the bikes and am unsure of the exact geometries of each (neither is a stock build).

Groupsets:

Telekom is set up with Dura Ace 9 speed (7700) and American Classic 350s. It has a 110 mm Cinelli XA w/Cinelli bars (this may be important in later comments). 

"GordoMax" is complete Dura Ace 8 speed (7410) with DA9/Open pro wheels (these were on the Telekom bike previously and take the place of the original DA8 Open CD SSCs that came on the bike until I get around to rebuilding the hubs on the other wheelset). It has a 125 mm Cinelli 101.

Ride impressions:

Both are incredible rides. Both have had the same set of wheels and tires on them (the DA9/Open Pros w/Avocet carbons) which eliminate the variable of wheels/tires. Now here is where they are different. Just tossing a leg over the bikes brings out instant differences in feel between the two of them. The Telekom bike instantly feels livelier and more responsive (keep in mind that this is a comparison based off of the same wheelset). The steering feels quicker and just gives a "wow" impression (at least to me). On the other hand, GordoMax doesn't feel as quick or as lively. Keep in mind that it doesn't "feel" bad by any means, but it just doesn't have the "snap" that the Telekom bike does. On the road both of the bikes feel great. The rides are smooth and they accelerate well. They feel incredibly solid the harder you push them. However, this is where GordoMax begins to shine. The FASTER you go, the more alive it begins to feel. I am probably reaching my max in about the spot where it is really coming into its own.  It feels more and more solid and yet more responsive than at lower speeds. Descents on both are incredible. We have a couple of nice hills in the Austin area that have increasing radius turns where I can hit in the high 40 mph range. Both of the bikes have great turn in and just seem to dig in a bit more as you push them. They are perfectly balanced. To summarize: both are great rides, but seem to have different speeds where they really come into their own.

Theories on differences in feel:

1. Stem length. Could a 15mm difference have a large impact on the steering feel? I haven't tried two different stem lengths back to back on the same bike to find out.

2. Bikes built for different purposes. Gord Fraser did many of the Classics such as Paris-Roubaix, Flanders, etc. Could the bike have been built to accommodate the style of racing (and routes) that Gord was specializing in? Could GordoMax have been built to create a more stable and yielding ride on the pave and rougher courses of the Classics? Longer chainstays could be part of that mix. As mentioned, I haven't measured them, but it would lead to the differences that I am detecting between the bikes.

Next Steps:

1. Measure the chainstays to see if there is a difference between the two,
2. Swap out the 125 stem for a 110 to see if that sharpens the steering response of GordoMax, 

OR

3. Ride the bikes and not even worry about the differences, but appreciate them instead.

Conclusion:

At first I would pick the Telekom bike over GordoMax any day but had begun to use the Motorola bike more before Christmas. I was began to have more of an appreciation for it. If I had to sell one of them it would be a TOUGH choice between the two. At the moment, I prefer the Telekom bike over the Motorola machine from a ride perspective, but wouldn't want to give up the mystique of a Motorola team bike (especially after lusting after one for 10 years). The Telekom bike is my main ride and will have the most miles put on it and the Motorola machine will be used for the occasional ride on nice, sunny days.

So, if it ever comes down to it and I need the money, I'll have to sell………….my car! 

Cheers,

Texbike


----------



## jt2gt (Aug 25, 2004)

What about weight...what do both buildups weigh? Could a difference in weight mean anything. JT


----------



## texbike (Oct 21, 2004)

jt2gt said:


> What about weight...what do both buildups weigh? Could a difference in weight mean anything. JT


I haven't weighed the Motorola bike but the Telekom machine was just under 21 lbs fully built with pedals (Look 396s). There may be a bit of additional weight on the Motorola,but it isn't readily apparent. For that reason, I wouldn't attribute the differences in feel to that. 

Texbike


----------



## Fivethumbs (Jul 26, 2005)

Thanks for the answer Texbike. I think the differences you feel are because each one is a team bike that was built with custom geometry. For all we know they each have custom angles on the seat tubes and head tubes too. 

The Competitive Cyclist website lists the geometry for the 2005 MX Leaders (like mine). I don't know if the geometries on the 2005 MX Leaders are the same as the origninal '90s models, but I'll assume for the sake of argument that they are. According to the CC website a bike with a 56 cm seat tube would have a 56 cm top tube and a 55 cm seat tube would come with a 55.5 cm top tube. It appears that pro riders like more top tube length than regular people.

Obviously Telekom has 2 cm more top tube than stock and 1 cm more that Gordomax, which in bicycle frame design is a lot. I'm guessing that if you had bought a stock MX Leader it would probably handle completely different than either Telekom or Gordomax, and you probably would not like it so much. So I guess it was lucky for you that you found the team bikes. 


I think the longer top tube on Telekom has a lot to do with the different feel. On the Telekom bike, your weight is centered over the bottom bracket more, which I believe would make the steering feel lighter and quicker. 

My MX Leader has a 62 cm seat tube and a 58.8 top tube. I only have 0.8 cm more top tube that yours and mine is 6 cm larger! When I first built up my MX Leader I was a little disappointed because the steering felt very sluggish. I only had my other bike to compare it to, a Bottecchia with a 74 degree seat angle and a 75+ degree head tube angle and a 59.5 cm top tube. These numbers translated into a very quick and super responsive bike. The MX Leader felt so different. I ended up having to get a seat post with a lot of set back and slide the seat pretty far back to get my weight centered over the bottom bracket more. This seemed to lighten up the steering and made it handle better. After riding it more it is now my favorite because of the comfort and stability. It is a much nicer riding and confidence inspiring bike. It still loses out to the Bottecchia in quickness and responsiveness category but I'm not riding crits anyway.

Too bad Eddy won't make anymore MX Leaders. If he did I would try to get custom geometry to get a little longer top tube on mine. Meanwhile I'll keep a look out for Sean Yates or maybe Axel's old MXLs.

Cheers.


----------

