# Cycling in L.A. is GREAT!



## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

So, riding home tonight. On a two-lane boulevard, in the right lane just outside of the door zone of the parked cars. Blocking the right lane, but not completely. Was actually further to the right than I was comfortable with. I hear an engine roar up right behind me. Then the horn blares. I turn around, the driver of a big-ass truck is flipping me off, about three feet behind me. I gesture with my hand: “what the f**k?” then motion for him to go around me. He guns his engine; vibrating in my head he’s so close. And it’s a truck, so the engine is higher up. He totally guns it and comes screaming by me as close as he can.

So close, in fact, that he hits me. And he hits me hard enough that I hear someone on the sidewalk yell something out, like “DAAAAMN!” because they heard/saw it. Somehow I don’t go down. He races off.

I see the traffic light up in the distance is green. Then I remember that a cop JUST passed me. The light turns yellow, I see the truck driver is going to get caught at the red. I go all-out to get up there, hoping the cop was at the light as well. Just as I’m getting up to the intersection the light changes back to green. I sprint even harder. The truck driver takes off, but the cop, who’s in the left lane, lags behind, enough that I can barely catch up to the rear passenger window. I scream out “HEY! HEY! HEY! HEY!” until they notice me. They put the window down: “HE HIT ME! HE HIT ME! HE HIT ME!” I mean, I’m screaming this as loud as I can. They start asking me questions; I’m still pedaling. I yell for them to get him. He turns into a parking lot at a KFC drive thru. The cops _slowly_ go after him. They turn into the wrong parking lot, the one right before KFC. I roll by and scream “NEXT ONE!” and pull into the KFC parking lot. The guy is in the ****ing drive-thru lane. I see the police in the next parking lot start to back up. I roll up to him, he puts his window down and yells “YOU BETTER GET THE F**K OUT OF HERE RIGHT NOW” then peels out backing out of the drive-thru and tries to flee. But the cops (finally) roll into the parking lot. He stops. the police come up. He gets out of his truck and says I hit his car. AND says I flipped him off.

I take turns yelling at the guy and telling them what happened. They ask if I’m hurt. No. Do I need an ambulance. No. I see where this is going.

After a lot of arguing and other bulls**t, they do nada. Said I can make a citizens arrest, but then I’m liable if it’s found to be an unlawful arrest.

I said this guy was threatening me with an 8000-pound truck. He came within centimeters of seriously injuring or killing me. HE ADMITTED TO THE FACT THAT HE BRUSHED ME!

Nothing. I said at the very least, the guy hit me and fled. He ADMITTED to that! Nothing. I reminded the cop that his fellow law-enforcement dudes unloaded dozens of rounds into a car, killing a 14-year-old, because the kid was backing up toward them. To them, a car seemed to be a legitimate threat. You can imagine how successful that argument was.

After things calm down, I’m talking to one cop about the unlawful arrest crap. Then I ask him to at least talk to the guy and tell him to be more careful around bicyclists and to understand that we have a right to be on the road. Because the cop at least seemed to agree with that. Meanwhile, the cop’s partner is standing around joking and laughing with the truck driver.

If I had been hurt, everything would have been different. But because I was lucky enough to not be, the guy gets off scot-free.

Next time I'll fake injury and request the ambulance.

I hate people. I HATE F-ING COPS.

Feeling angry and defeated,
Roebuck.


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## mynamesrob (Jul 13, 2006)

Ugh. I'm sorry to hear of the unfortunate circumstances in which you have to deal with. I'm surprised that the cops took the incident so lightly.

-Rob


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## YuriB (Mar 24, 2005)

that flat sucks.


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## Doggity (Mar 10, 2006)

Think the attitude there is like the song "Only a nobody walks in LA..." If you ain't in a cage, you get no respect. Look at the bright side...both you and your ride are OK! Coulda been a whole lot worse.


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## CaseLawZ28 (Jul 14, 2005)

I would have arrested him. Make a complaint to the authorities.


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## JoeDaddio (Sep 3, 2005)

Couldn't that technically be assault with a deadly weapon? Or at the very least reckless endangerment?



joe


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## Hollywood (Jan 16, 2003)

DrRoebuck said:


> Meanwhile, the cop’s partner is standing around joking and laughing with the truck driver.


wow.

that. sucks. Where was this exactly? Glad you're not dead, but I know how frustrating that can be.

I have a few friends with NoHo LAPD that I can name-drop if I need to. These are perfect scenarios to use it, when you become less of "some bike guy" and more of "one of them".

I keep one of their cell #s in my phone, just on the off-chance I have to chase down an a-hole like your truck driver.


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## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

joedaddio: ADW, reckless endangerment, hit-and-run ... you would think all could/should apply, yes. alas, they weren't having any of it.
caselaw: i was very tempted to make the citizens arrest. but i was afraid of being sued for unlawful arrest, which that punk-a$$ coward surely would have done.
h'wood: i was on centinela between the two washingtons. a pretty decent-sized right lane. like i said, i was actually further to the right than i would normally ride.

i'm currently thinking of ways to pursue this, though it is likely too late. there's a lawyer who advertises on the la bike coalition website. i may give him a ring and see what he thinks.


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## ilium (Aug 15, 2006)

Yea, LA drivers are jerks. On the other hand, the high has never gone below 50, and we've only had like 5 days of rain all winter.


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## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

ilium said:


> Yea, LA drivers are jerks. On the other hand, the high has never gone below 50, and we've only had like 5 days of rain all winter.


Thanks, but I'll take a little bit of decency for some cold, wet weather.


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## el gee (Feb 4, 2005)

I've had run-in's with LA drivers in the past and called the LAPD at the time of the incident. Pretty much told me if I'm not dead or on my way to the hospital, get over it. This was after getting brushed, then cut off by the ticked off driver because she said I touched her car, followed by the driver getting out of her Lexus and holding a can of pepper spray to my face while people were photographing the incident on their camera phones. Nothing they were willing to pursue. Thanks for nothing!

In retrospect I should have taken a U lock to her rear window, removed her passenger mirror, wrestled the pepper spray away from her, and beat the living pulp out of her with my frame pump. At the time I was a newlywed and my wife would have killed me. 

This was in Westwood.


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## northcoast (Jul 11, 2003)

Glad you're OK, Roebuck. Hang in there buddy & take that whole f***ing lane next time. Probably wouldn't have made a difference w/ an @sshole like that.


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## cwg_at_opc (Oct 20, 2005)

when i lived in NOHO ten years ago, i rode everywhere; north
hollywood, studio city, universal city(mulholland), beverly hills,
hollywood, melrose, santa monica, malibu.

nowadays i restrict my rding in town to Griffith Park and the short,
lesser trafficked route back to the office(riverside dr to disney)
or to the agoura/westlake vil/thou oaks area.

sorry your run-in was so spectacularly lame with respect to the cops.
i don't trust them to protect me for anything, unless the other guy has
a gun drawn or i've already been hit and down. and a fat lot of good
they do when all that happens.

My best wishes and good luck for your future rides.


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## STARNUT (Jun 19, 2005)

I had a similar accident happen. It was a steep fast decent where a guy just couldn't wait to get around me. Mind you I was already over the speed limit. So he passes me.......tags me with his rear side mirror I manage to not go down at 50mph and have 2 more miles of steep technical descent to stay with him. A group of construction workers were behind him and witnessed the whole thing. They call the cops (unknown to me) while I am chasing, and they are chasing me. Its a sad day with an a$$hat in a $100,000 audi (orange no less) can't out run a littel guy on a bike.........

SO...... I catch him at the next stop sign and get off my bike and pitch my water bottle at him. He gets bent gets out and starts running at me. Enter construction workers...they hold they guy back while I grab the keys from his audi and pitch them in the near by field. Enter the cops...............they were none to happy with audi guy. I by this time have blood streamin' down my arm and the cops are talking about filling charges. 

3 weeks after the inicident I see the audi in a parking garage (i still remember the plate number to this day) and wirte a big "F**K YOU" down the driverside of his precious audi with a key........and it felt great. When its all said and done.......this the 3rd time he has hit a cyclist, mine was the only inicident that didn't involve serious injury. I thought the DAs were going to seek the death penality, they were absolutly pissed. the judge was non to pleased as well. The other two incidents occured in or around LA, mine occured in Aspen (a favorite place of like mided dousche bags that pay $100,000 for an orange car.) He went to jail for 30 days served 10.....and payed loads of fines.............and had tons of community serivce to do (this is where his vacation home is by the way).....and his lincense was revoked. I saw him driving that orange audi (with my art work) after this.

moral of the story.............people don't change


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## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

el gee said:


> In retrospect I should have taken a U lock to her rear window, removed her passenger mirror, wrestled the pepper spray away from her, and beat the living pulp out of her with my frame pump.


There are times I would have thought that was a tad over the top for a post on this forum. Today it's like phone sex.

Thanks for the well-wishes ... especially from my l.a. brothers (you know who you are).

24 hours later, I'm still pretty upset and depressed about this, and considering my bike wasn't damaged, I'm surprised something has bothered me this deeply for this long. I joined the L.A. Bike Coalition last night, and am going to be talking to them, as well as to an attorney who advertises on the LACBC website. I also sent a letter to the mayor, my councilman and the LAPD, and plan on calling the captain of LAPD Pacific Station tomorrow (I'm waiting till I cool down a little more).


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## mynamesrob (Jul 13, 2006)

I couldn't agree with you more on this, Roebuck. I would stir the pot as much as I could to make it known what has happened and the lack of concern from the police on the scene. And I don't mean stir up in the sense of starting trouble, I mean methodically.

Good luck!

-Rob


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## The Walrus (Apr 2, 2000)

FWIW, I think you're going about it the right way, not that it will necessarily achieve more than what you already did. One person, however righteously aggrieved, is not likely to get much satisfaction when the official response you've gotten so far is "no harm, no foul". Getting someone with a little more weight backing you is the only realistic way to get results. I expect the response from City Hall and LAPD will be basically a handjob, and I'm not sure that LACBC really carries enough weight in a case like this to matter. (Not dissing the Bike Coalition here, I'm just making an observation.) As much as it pains me to say it, I'm afraid the shyster and the pol are your best bet.

Look on the bright side, if you can--you were lucky that this incident _didn't_ cross that threshold requiring an ambulance or coroner's van. I'm glad for you in that regard....


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## Hollywood (Jan 16, 2003)

el gee said:


> followed by the driver getting out of her Lexus and holding a can of pepper spray to my face while people were photographing the incident on their camera phones.


i fantasize about tossing a spinning, hissing pepper spray grenade into open car windows of these offenders and cruising along on my merry way. A lot.

the only thing I fear from this sort of retaliation is the drivers taking it back out on a cyclist who *looks* like me but isn't. Then another innocent biker gets hurt and the cycle repeats ad infinitum.


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## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

First steps: Today I called the Pacific Station and filed a complaint on the two cops. The watch commander said a detective will contact me and take a formal statement.

As an aside, I've always been a cop-junkie. Love crime fiction. Love listening to the scanner, etc. Being that I'm a complete moron and didn't take ANY information about the cops on the scene, I actually knew a lot of information about the cops that night. Which cop had which stripes, etc. Very funny.


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## chimpanzee00 (Feb 20, 2007)

I read the original post just yesterday, & guess what..I just experienced a similar incident! I'm lucky I wasn't seriously hurt (or killed).


I'm coming downhill on Altadena Dr (Pasadena, Altadena border) at a fairly good clip, 23 mph. A black pickup truck in the opposing lane starts turning right into me! I manage to clear him by INCHES. Didn't have time to brake, if I did we would have collided. Like in above case, there were witnesses. 2 roadies saw the whole thing, & when I queried them "I almost got killed"..they said "Yeah!".

I reversed direction, & went into the street the truck pulled into. He reversed & came back..I was specifically looking for a license plate # (so I could report him). I started talking to the guy, & told him what he had just done. He claimed "I didn't see you". I then asked for name & license plate #, & this is when he got mad. He started cursing, pointing his fingers at me..& accused me of harassing him! He got out, & went across the street to call the police! He called me an "idiot" a few times! He actually went back & called his girlfriend, & the in-laws show up. His girlfriend asks me if I'm OK, & was trying to excuse the whole thing since nobody got hurt. Just like in the above case. I was even offerred a Coke, which I refused. She tells me that he "suffered a loss" this week (he's upset), & they're all going to a psychiatrist for counseling! This explains why he didn't see me, he was "Driving while Impaired". It's a standard rule not to drive, when you're upset.

A police officer finally show up (LONG wait). He is very professional, & tells me he can't write a ticket ("failure to yield the right of way") based on citizen statements. It requires a P.O. to witness it (otherwise he explained, the PD would be subject to chaos everyday). I pointed out the guy admitted to "not seeing me" (even said it in the 911 call to police), isn't this evidence he was in violation of "failure to yield". Nope. Just like in above case, "no harm no foul".

The PO questions the other guy, & guess what? He's driving with an expired driver's license! I never found out if he had legit tags, because the PO asked me to leave. I did get his card with incident # written on the back (NOTE: make sure everyone does this for any future PD encounters).


1) this guy is obviously a hazard on the road.
For him to not get some kind of "penalty" (negative reinforcement) means he might pull another boner, possibly injuring/killing someone in the future

2) bad drivers can "get away with it"
I wasn't aware that I (as a witness) could not report a traffic infraction to the police WITH some resultant action.

I'm not mad at cops (like DrRoebuck is), but at the laws & the City. They spend $$ for parking cops to go around & give chickensh$t speeding/parking tickets at the local college (& Old Town Pasadena). Even jaywalking tickets to students who go across the street to Burger King. All in the name of $$. What about having traffic cops stationed around, to protect pedestrians/bicyclists against irresponsible drivers?

Can Technology help? Suppose I had a Oregon Scientific helmet-camera recording while I was riding, & it had video-evidence of the incident. Would that have been enough to get ticket issued to the offender?


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## rePhil (Jun 20, 2002)

*What did you want them to do?*

The cops have to witness a close call to do anything. Otherwise like they said it will be chaos. As far as taking a long time to respond maybe they were at the far end of their area or on another call.If it was reported as an injury accident then it would be a different story. 
To chimpanzee00:How would you react if some guy came up to you driving your car, saying you almost hit him and you want to see his license?
As far as having more cops, thats up to your city, and your taxes.


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## Pigtire (May 26, 2004)

That really sucks! Like you I really despise the drivers in my area and the cops, so much to be said but you know what I mean.


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## slupo (Jan 27, 2005)

No offense, but why are you wasting everyone's time with this?

I think what happens to you totally sucks. I'd be super pissed. What the truck driver did to you is wrong. But honestly, what did you want the cops to do? You weren't hurt, there was no damage. I think they did enough by pulling over to investigate. Why are you filing a report on these guys?

This is LA. A lot of sh1t goes down all the time. Personally, I want cops dealing with more important things. If the truck driver ran over you or ran you off the road and you crashed and got hurt, it would be a different story. As it stands, it's really not that big a deal. I've had a lot worse happen to me. I'm not saying it's right, but it's just the way it is in LA anyway.

That being said, good luck to you.


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## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

slupo said:


> No offense, but why are you wasting everyone's time with this?


If I have _any_ success with what I'm trying to accomplish, and you ride a bike in L.A., you'll be grateful to me. Whether you know it or not. Meantime, thanks for the support!


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## CD08 (Dec 9, 2006)

Sounds like the cops told you what your choices were based on what they could LEGALLY do and YOU decided not to do anything. Not the cops. So why are you mad at them for "not doing anything". If you thought you were 100% in the right (which I have no doubt that you were) and thought this guy should pay for it, you should have signed a citizens arrest form. The cops told you about the false arrest thing because they wanted to inform you about the process. They werent there and didn't see it so, for all they know, you could have been lying. If you were so sure he was in the wrong and you felt it was so obvious that the cops should have arrested him, why would you be worried about a false arrest??? I guess its just easier to hate the cops....


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

I'd be interested to hear what your attorney says about the case: almost all of us who ride long enough have had some run-in with a hostile driver who uses their car aggressively in the manner you describe. The fact that you weren't hurt doesn't seem to lessen the fact that the person was attempting to harm you. You did mention a witness-someone on foot who saw it: have you thought about posting a sign in that area asking any witnesses to get in touch with you?


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## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

stevesbike said:


> have you thought about posting a sign in that area asking any witnesses to get in touch with you?


I haven't. But that's a great idea. I'll swing by there tonight and see if I can figure out exactly where it happened.


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## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

CD08 said:


> They werent there and didn't see it so, for all they know, you could have been lying.


The guy admitted to a lot of what happened. The only thing he changed was that I hit him, rather than he hit me. When he took off, he didn't know if I was hurt or not, yet he admitted contact, so he still left the scene of an accident. When I caught up to him at the KFC parking lot, he tried to flee again, STILL having no idea if I was hurt or not.




CD08 said:


> If you were so sure he was in the wrong and you felt it was so obvious that the cops should have arrested him, why would you be worried about a false arrest???


I had to make a decision right then and there. All I knew was this guy was a total coward and had already threatened multiple times to sue if I made the citizens arrest. I guess my point is I shouldn't have been put in the situation to have to make that decision in the first place.

And even that doesn't matter. The cops' supervisor came and said he wouldn't make the citizens arrest even if I wanted to.




CD08 said:


> I guess its just easier to hate the cops....


Why would I hate the cops? They refused to give him so much as a warning, told me I should ride on the sidewalk, then stood around joking and laughing with the truck driver.


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## meat tooth paste (Oct 6, 2004)

Sorry to hear bout that unpleasant experience man. Glad you made it out in once piece.


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## DrRoebuck (May 10, 2004)

meat tooth paste said:


> Sorry to hear bout that unpleasant experience man. Glad you made it out in once piece.


Thanks Nhat.


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## Sims (Mar 5, 2007)

good thing you're okay. Yeah, LA has some pretty bad drivers, so far, in the last year i've almost been hit 2 times by some idiots. what is the worst is when you have people driving around with their cell phones while swaying side to side on the road. reminds me of a guy who was on the freeway in LA using his LAPTOP WHILE DRIVING! and he crashed into the center divider and died, was in the LA times like 3 weeks ago.


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## ispoke (Feb 28, 2005)

*it takes a while...*

...to get over it. I had a run-in with a motorist downtown LA a few months ago. He bumped me from behind just enough to knock me off my seat and slightly bruise my tail bone. He drove away screaming at me with one hand holding the horn. It took me about a month to stop dreaming of U-lock justice (well, I still occasionally think about it). My blood boiled for a long time over that one.

Anyway - In the end, you were not injured and so I presume there's little cause for hit and run charges. Perhaps reckless driving, but without the cops witness or a bystander, that's a no-go too. I doubt there's much risk to a citizen's arrest, but it might only be thrown out of court and then you're stuck with your lawyers fees - plus the knowledge that you further aggravated that driver. You are right to ask a supervising officer for advice, and maybe a lawyer too if that helps educate you (and us).

I carry a pencil and paper, and cell camera, when I commute. Sometimes it's better to stop, take a photo of the license plate and irate motorist, write down the identifying info, and walk away while pretending to call 911. You avoid the kind of confrontation that could quickly turn ugly, and make them think twice about what you're up to, and thus their own actions.

And if it's a city bus driver, their attitude will change for the better once you've identified them (while delaying their route in the process). And LA Metro is very open to hearing complaints via the email address on their website. I learned that one from experience too...


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

I'm still interested in what the law actually is for these cases. I took a quick look at the LAPD site and saw a distinction between aggressive driving and road rage. Road rage is stated to be a criminal offense, and it's definition sure sounds like your case. It's an assalt that follows an exchange that happens on a roadway.

http://www.lapdonline.org/prevent_crime/content_basic_view/7744 

The fact that the driver attempted to harm you after an altercation seems to be the key element to pursue, regardless of whether it actually resulted in you being harmed. If POs are telling you stuff like ride on the sidewalk (that's actually illegal isn't it?) then they need to be disciplined and sounds like they failed badly at performing their duties, says right on the website "it is the responsibility of every uniformed officer to enforce those laws and regulations and to educate the community on the importance of traffic safety"


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## meat tooth paste (Oct 6, 2004)

there needs to be some public service announcements about bikes having rights to be on streets and how they should not be on sidewalks.

there is alot of ignorance here in the city about this. i think alot of it is assumption. most people here don't ride bikes and the last time they rode a bike was probably as a teenager, which was on the sidewalk perhaps. so as driving adults, they probably think all bikes belong on the sidewalk where children ride.

the odd thing is that it seems even the police need to brush up on road rules aswell.


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## CD08 (Dec 9, 2006)

It looks like road rage would be classified as a felony (just from reading the web site's definition). Officers can make a felony arrest if the crime was not committed in their presence IF they have enough probable cause. The thing is, they would have to be able to prove that he INTENTIONALLY hit you. He would obviously deny it and there really wasnt much evidence to support it (since it was a side swipe and he was in a big truck). Even if your witness came forward and told them what he/she saw. 

Im sure he did mean to hit you but it would be very hard to prove ( I know, the law sucks!). What they should have at least done in that case would be to write a report alleging the crime occurred and forward it to the District Attorney for prosecution of the driver. That way, the district attorney would decide if there was enough probable cause to charge the driver with the crime. If there was, they driver would get a notice to appear and then the case would move forward. If not, at least there would be a documented incident in case it ever happened again.

Telling you to ride on the sidewalk was wrong. The vehicle code is at least 1,000 pages long and the penal code is about 1,000 pages long also. Thats A LOT of codes and laws to know! Officers can't know all of them but they should research it if they aren't sure. Plus, every cop should know bicycles are not allowed on the sidewalk.


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## jrm (Dec 23, 2001)

*change your route...*

and for gods sake MOVE..


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## sean350 (Jul 27, 2004)

CD08 said:


> Telling you to ride on the sidewalk was wrong. The vehicle code is at least 1,000 pages long and the penal code is about 1,000 pages long also. Thats A LOT of codes and laws to know! Officers can't know all of them but they should research it if they aren't sure. Plus, every cop should know bicycles are not allowed on the sidewalk.



Actually, in Los Angeles, it is okay for bicyclists to be on the sidewalk, as long as they are not riding in a manner that would cause harm to pedestrians. But... they are also allowed on the street. Best of both worlds. For the cop to say they are supposed to be on the sidewalk is incorrect, obviously. Road first, sidewalk second. I used to have a link to this law, but don't have it anymore.
-Sean


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