# TACX VR vs Computrainer ?



## InfiniteLoop (Mar 20, 2010)

I get to choose one for Christmas!

Purpose is to stay in shape during fall & spring when roads are slushy and some use during winter on days when I can't ski (x-c). Boredom is a huge major awful issue for me on rollers so I'm hoping this will relieve some of it.

A local training center where I plan to do a spring class (http://www.thefixstudio.com/powerfix2.html) has Computrainers. Not sure if it'd be best to have the same thing at home or different.

Computrainer seems geared toward tri folks, I'm purely a roadie. Ergvideo's help? Their quality seems amateur.

My impression is that computrainer has the better stats/analysis (like pedal stroke analysis) but TACX VR has the better VR and real video for boredom killing.

TACX has the webrace/multiplayer community.

TACX software QA makes Garmin software seem stable. TTS2 appears to have had a number of problems with worst just recently stabilized and TTS3 is unusable for some folks. Is computrainer more stable (interestingly, their website seems far more antiquated than TACX)?

Computrainer handlebar controller seems more capable than TACX (?) and allows for use without a computer? Appears TACX requires a computer if you want any stats.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

I have a tacx fortius and regret buying it. The TTS software is buggy as hell and you can't use half the features because they will crash. TTS3 just came out and it's still as buggy as hell - check out the tacx forum for all the gory details and legions of PO'ed users. Yeah, you'll need a computer for tacx - with a beefy graphics card. I had to buy a new system to appease the tacx gods and make it work initially.

If I had to do it again, I'd get the computrainer because NOTHING could be worse than this tacx POS.


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

What about the Elite system? I've read some decent reviews. Not as high quality at Computrainer but it's cheaper!


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## zoikz (Sep 5, 2003)

I disagree about the TACX....kinda.
If you push it hard, it's going to crash. But if you keep it simple it is pretty reliable. I run mine off a crappy desktop I got refurbished for $150. No fancy video cards or anything. I really just run the VR on it. Occasionally I'll run some of the training programs or videos, but 9 times out of 10 I'll be on the VR. It's never crashed on me. But I wouldn't trust it to run anything complex, nor expect TACX to raise a finger to help you. The tech support doesn't exist.
It's totally entertaining, and it takes the sting out of winter training. I've never used the compu-trainer but have heard from other that this is what it lacks; being entertaining.
Interestingly there was a journal article out recently that showed riders who used VR trainers actually put in a lot more work and had lower perceived exertion than those who just used a trainer. I had my strongest season racing last year and I'm going to credit the TACX trainer. 
I didn't have any real formal program. But on the VR you have the option of riding against yourself. So when you're on the course the rider(s) next to you is you, when you did it before. And nothing will push you harder than competing with yourself. I did some unheard of things, like avg 350Watts over 45 min, that I never did before. To beat yourself I found you have to attack where your weakspots are. So if last time I hammered everything but didn't maintain power right after a climb, that's where I would attack. I top 10ed every crit I did last year. I had never gotten a single top 10 before that. All my workouts are under 90 minutes.
It's a shame TACX didn't go the extra mile with this system. The basic concept of being a video game that you ride, is where the future really is. They do deliver this to some extent. But they fall short on many other issues.


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## InfiniteLoop (Mar 20, 2010)

zoikz, can you give some examples of what you would consider pushing it? EG, things that might make it crash?

I agree with you on the entertainment element. Workout+Stats/Analysis+Coaching+Entertainment is the ideal package and the entertainment element is pretty important to me to avoid BOREDOM.

Thanks,


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## zoikz (Sep 5, 2003)

I only race against 1-2 other racers. Anything more and it get's really choppy. I don't play it on-line (mostly because I can't figure out how to get a wi fi signal in my attic.) Don't bother with the GPS mapping program. I've run a couple catalyst programs and didn't have any problems. Actually it's an excellent program for figuring out your power numbers. 
I'm not sure I completely trust the power numbers it gives me. I think they are probably close though. On really steep pitches it's hard to keep the rear wheel from slipping, but interetstingly I've only had this happen in the videos not the VR.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

There's a reason my multirider training centre uses Computrainers. They are rock solid and reliable.

They will also be far more consistent with power information and resistance than a Tacx.

The new ergvid 3 software is pretty darn good for a solo rider.


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## InfiniteLoop (Mar 20, 2010)

That seems to be the pretty strong consensus among many training centers. Speaks pretty well of Computrainer.


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## InfiniteLoop (Mar 20, 2010)

Has anyone tried the Netathlon software or their web racing? Thoughts?

How about http://www.virtualrealitycycling.com/ ?


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## JD73 (Oct 13, 2008)

Go with the Tacx. I've using their system for 2 years now and it's been great to me. Don't always believe everything you read on the Tacx forums. There are a lot of happy users out there. Multiplayer is great and will keep you motivated. The Real Life Videos are top notch too.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

JD73 said:


> Go with the Tacx. I've using their system for 2 years now and it's been great to me. Don't always believe everything you read on the Tacx forums. There are a lot of happy users out there. Multiplayer is great and will keep you motivated. The Real Life Videos are top notch too.


You are probably one of the lucky ones who can get Tacx software to work because you don't use many of the features, don't switch views and have the magic combination of hardware that will work plus you probably practice Voo-doo to make this pile of crap called TTS to work. Sorry, I know way more people who have problems with Tacx VR software than those who don't. I really want this system to work since I've invested a lot of money in it - but so far it sucks.


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## JD73 (Oct 13, 2008)

I just use the Fortius software. It's easy to get a copy of. Never had a problem in 2 years. It works great with the VR worlds, RLV and Multiplayer. No reason for me even to put TTS on my computer. I will eventually switch when Tacx works out the bugs but for now what I have works great and it makes me actually want to ride indoors. I've spent over 3 hours at a time in the saddle with the Fortius without boredom. Not too many other trainers will do that for you.


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## Sonomasnap (Feb 10, 2010)

Which of the Tacx VR trainers do you recommend? 

Fortius Multi

Fortius

i-Magic

???


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## JD73 (Oct 13, 2008)

You could get the Fortius instead of the Multiplayer if you don't care about the steering unit or racing online. You can purchase those as add ons later anyhow. I actually turn my steering unit off. The Multiplayer license doesn't cost much to add on. 
The I-magic is good too if you don't care about having the downhill assist that the Fortius has.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

The VR riding on a Computrainer is based on videos they take of various Ironman courses, so in that aspect it is gear for Tri, but that works for me. I just consider it a training ride.

I like being able to set up my own interval schedule and power profiles on the Computrainer. It makes it a great training tool.

Granted, I use a 5 station unit we have at work. Having friends to ride with helps too.

For entertainment I pop in a DVD and watch a movie.

Software seems very stable. Cadence/Spin Scan sensor can be iffy.


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## InfiniteLoop (Mar 20, 2010)

Some update observations:

Computrainer doesn't appear to have put any effort in to new courses since 2007. Did release a '3D' update to software in Aug 2010.

TACX does appear to be continuing to update their software, though updates are quite unreliable and many are sticking with older versions.

NetAthlon has released an update in 2010. Capabilities and course availability still limited.

VirtualRealityCycling.com is continuing to update.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

InfiniteLoop said:


> Some update observations:
> 
> Computrainer doesn't appear to have put any effort in to new courses since 2007. Did release a '3D' update to software in Aug 2010...........


A new comprehensive software package will be available from Computrainer any day now. 

Scheduled release was "Fall 2010". If you bought a Computrainer today, I'm 99% sure you would qualify to get the new software free when it is available.

I've had my Computrainer since 2003 and had NO problems. Like someone else said, the use in a multi rider environment verifies that they are bulletproof. Any little issues have been addressed along the way.


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## PeaBrain (Dec 23, 2010)

My history with Tacx trainers goes like this. I bought an I-Magic back when it was first introduced in 2002 or 2003 somewhere there-a-bouts. It had some software problems but was fixed with a couple of patches which Tacx did not charge for. In 2008 I wanted to upgrade to a Fortius for the motor brake feature. I got myself one for Christmas but it took 3 weeks before I got to use it because Tacx support wasn't available over the holidays. Eventually with 4 patches Fortius worked well and continues to work even since updating computers 3 times now. TTS1 came out and history with this company has taught me to wait before buying from this company. I waited until TTS2 came out took the dive. What a total nightmare. I spent three months fooling with it. Constant crashes after 45 minutes of riding. Non-start program failiars. Could not save rides. It ate up most of my memory on my SSD hard drive. It was and is still just a mess. Then Tacx anounced TTS3 was in the making. I was asked to Beta test, which I declinded because this crap can ruin a computer. I have two kick-azz gaming machines that I don't want ruined. By the way, Tacx has charged additional price for these upgrades which should be free if you have a problem. I was so pissed about spending more than $100 for a program that Tacx would not give any real help for and would not refund my money that I let it be known on the Tacx Forums and evenually got kicked out of. So TTS3 finally comes out and guess what, it has just as many if not more issues than any previous version. I am one of the lucky people to have purchased my trainer when it came with the original Fortius program so I am able to use it. Those poor people who are buying these trainers now don't get that option. They come with TTS and that is all you get. No help from Tacx. Not much help from the forums. It's a trainer that doesn't work as stated, PERIOD! Multiplayer is an option, at additional charge for a subscription, but not many people here in the States in a reasonable time zone posting rides. Basically it's good for nothing if you can't find other riders. It's great on that rare occasion I do find someone to ride against but they have to have Fortius because I can't join TTS rides or vise versa. My final statement here would be this, if Tacx doesn't get this TTS program worked out soon I believe it will be the end of this company. I'm sure the lawsuits are getting ready to fly because I read the Tacx forums daily and all the new posts and it's just unbelievalbe how bad things are.


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## JD73 (Oct 13, 2008)

Interesting read. I've been a happy Tacx user for 2 years and seriously doubt the company will end. They sell a lot of these machines and many people ride without issues. I have found the Tacx forums very helpful and have worked me through anything that might come up. I actually look foward to riding indoors with my fortius!


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## zoikz (Sep 5, 2003)

*Tacx, give me more terrain!*

They are just a little Dutch company that does what they are capable of. It's not like a multi-billion dollar industry. It's a tiny little niche.
I run the virtual trainer 4-5 times a week in winter and do step tests a couple times a year. Had it for over 2 years and never had it crash. Well it did crash before on my fancy laptop. But bought a refurb desktop that has no other software installed, isn't on the web, never updated, and it has never crashed since. Seems like it worked.
The bottom line for me is I just want more terrain to ride in. A new update with some virtual terrain would be awesome. I got the mtb course just looking for terrain, but it's kinda lame. 
I do get these fantasies about how great it would be if you could really make it act like being in a pro race. Team cars on the course, breakaways, even get a flat tire and have to wait for the team car to swap the wheel. extra points for getting water bottles and bringing them to your team.


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## PeaBrain (Dec 23, 2010)

JD73 said:


> Interesting read. I've been a happy Tacx user for 2 years and seriously doubt the company will end. They sell a lot of these machines and many people ride without issues. I have found the Tacx forums very helpful and have worked me through anything that might come up. I actually look foward to riding indoors with my fortius!


First let me say I'm not trying to fight about this or make insults, but I do dissagree with your statement about the amount of these trainers being sold. I have wondered this and can't find any company financial info to reveal the units sold, profits, or anything else. So how do you make the determination that alot of these particular trainers are sold? I'm not interested in other products this company sells, just the ones using TTS. Also I noticed you stated in another post that you are using the older Fortius software too. Which would explain your satisfaction with the trainer. Which I also said the same. I'm not here to maliciously try to harm Tacx out of spite, I only want to warn, honestly, potential buyers. Buy the way, I understand Computrainer is coming out with new software in a couple of weeks. Even though Computrainer is more expensive than Tacx I know they have better technical support and better reliability. I am going to inquire more about this CP offerings and if I decide to buy one of their trainers I will post the Tacx trainer on ebay and finally wipe my hands of this company.


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## Dr. Paul Proteus (Sep 16, 2004)

I have a Tacx Fortius trainer that I'm not sure I could ever spend a winter without... but I would not recommend to anyone that they buy one as well. At best, one could claim that Tacx doesn't stand behind their products - At worst, I'd say they have severe product liability issues. I'm honestly surprised that they have not been involved at least one class-action lawsuit, if not 2-3 more. 

Plenty has been said about their software failings, and subsequent "fixes" that you have to pay for, only to have that version not work either, but the hardware is equally as bad. Every one of the initial model (sold for ~2 years IIRC?) of the 110V Fortius trainers had the same problem where the motorbrake/controller will die due to a design flaw. It wasn't a minor issue either - it would fail in a way that would blow the input fuse immediately upon power on. Because they didn't recognize or fix the problem, plenty of people's 1yr warranties came & went before the new version of the hardware was developed... when they did finally solve their problems, the very best they did for their customers was allow them to buy the fixed version at a slight discount (that's discount vs. retail - think along the lines of Performance Bike type prices), but only if you jumped into their pre-purchase deal that was posted for only a short bit of time on their forums. If you didn't happen to browse their forums the week they posted the deal... well, tough luck. When the problem happens outside of warranty it'll cost a few hundred + shipping.

The silent roller feature they have - turns out that it will eventually turn into the screaming banshee roller. Want it fixed... it'll cost a few hundred + shipping.

Some versions also have issues that crop up once wheel speeds get up near 25mph or more (resistance unit apparently can't handle going that fast). The fix - implement a "virtual headwind" in the software to prevent you from going faster than that, but do it in a way which kills the Fortius's power measuring capability and makes it useless to try multiplayer racing against someone who's system doesn't have the limitation. Want it fixed... yep, a few hundred + shipping.

For the most part, I only ride my trainer during the dead of winter & even then it's only on an as needed basis (considerably cold/wet/snow... I have good lights & ride outside whenever possible). This means I may ride my trainer for a grand total of only 20-30hrs per year (2-3hrs/week for ~3months), but I have yet to make it through an entire winter without needing to spend a few hundred dollars to keep my trainer going. I've gone through three controllers, three resistance units, multiple computers & graphics cards. In the early days it was an arms race - I'd upgrade the computer, then they would update their software & even though the computer more than met the minimum specs, it wouldn't work with the update. Their software is very finicky - it's not a matter of raw horsepower, more like a matrix where there are a few magical combinations that work. Very frustrating. Finally decided that the only option was to have a dedicated computer, get it running & then not update either the Tacx software or windows.

There's other problems too. The handlebar unit is apparently allergic to sweat - luckily it doesn't mount easily to my bars (cable interference), so I keep it on the windowsill next to me & therefore don't drip sweat onto it. Apparently it's a few hundred to replace it, + shipping. There is issues with the RLV's they sell - some of them are on the big Euro climbs & the trainer doesn't work well on the steeper bits (again, I feel lucky to have never tried one of the RLV's). The trainer frame isn't nearly as good as say the Cycleops or Kurt Kinetic trainer frames, it's a bit flexy & rocks easily if you are attempting any out fo the saddle efforts. The knob that is used to adjust roller tension doesn't lend itself to small adjustments - if you want accurate power measurements, your tire/roller pressure needs to be spot on. 

I have my fingers crossed that my trainer will finally make it through the winter this year, but I'm not placing any bets on it.


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## PeaBrain (Dec 23, 2010)

Dr. Paul Proteus, I agree with everything you've said. I've read countless reports on the forums about the issues you mentioned and I have been lucky to not have all that many. I did have the loud roller issue which I repaired myself using the epoxy method. I also had to replace my handlebar interface unit because it quit functioning properly. It was only a few days out of warranty and I had to pay full price ($300) to get a new one. I have been satisfied with the frame but the software has given me most of the problems. I am fairly computer savy so that has been a bonus in my favor too. I stated that I was given the boot from the Tacx forums for offering up my opinions too often. I never used swear words and name calling, they just wanted to shut me up. I even got emails from Tacx telling me to quit posting negatively about their program and poor help. I notice the moderators try to cover up statements by posters by eleminating posts if the comments are not what they want others to hear. Not fair in my opinion. I'm currently reading the Racermate CT forums in hopes to learn what issues I can expect to encounter. Hopefully it's all there.


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## Duane Gran (Feb 3, 2004)

You have had a particularly bad experience, but alas these tales of woe are common enough that I've turned my attention toward the computrainer. I've read various personal testimonies about both of these systems and all too often the buyers of the Tacx solution have regrets, whereas I can't count the number of times I've seen someone proclaim that their CT unit is running 10 years strong. I hope to pick one up this spring and I'll make a point after a season of using it to report back on my experiences, but the meta information I see strongly points toward the Computrainer as the better product.


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## MRFIXALL4 (May 19, 2003)

Well, I'ts been one year since my last update on Tacx and their TTS software. This company has absolutly no appreciation to the customers who bought Fortius trainers a couple of years ago. A couple of selling features of the trainer where multiplayer and real life video. Guess what, they are discontinueing multiplayer for Fortius users. You will have to buy TTS to buy a multiplayer license so you can ride online. That means that everyone I that would ride against and all the friends I made will be no more. Unless we all buy TTS. The real life videos are no longer being made the same so the new videos won't work with my trainer. If I did buy into TTS the videos I have now won't work with the new TTS. Wow! That's alot of money down the drain. If the TTS software wasn't so full of bugs I think I would have an easier time making a choice to upgrade. It's an expensive upgrade because it's not just the price of the software but now the required PC specs have gone way up also. Fortius was only around a few years, not long enough for it to really sink in with the consumer. TTS was introduced way to early and alot more testing should have been done before it's release. It's newest version soon to be released is version 4. From 1 thru 4 and countless patches and we still don't know if the product works as stated, I can't see why I would want to update. Tacx your business practices suck and you're lucky I can't speak out in these forums and say what I really would like to say.


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## hamsey (Aug 16, 2010)

I've had my bushido almost for a year now. When it works it is fantastic. TTS 3.5 fixed alot of problems. I had some growing pains because the manual sucks and lacks basic information. Tacx forums are a great source of information and usually you can find a solution to your problem. Tacx support, well it takes a couple of days to hear back from them. I found a solution to a problem on my own but I did hear back from them. They really do need to work on the support side. I ride for fitness but those that race and use their products cannot afford to wait 3-4 days to hear back from them just to start a discussion. Phil has done an excellent job on the videos. Very good quality. Hopefully TTS 4 will eliminate the problems they are having with the software. It will support Win7 and not XP, XP is where most of the problems come from. 

Like I said when it works (98% of the time) it is fantastic.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

I have had a Computrainer for about a year now. The hardware is great. Very heavy duty, high quality, and the power readings are very accurate. That's the good part. The bad part is the software is terrible, and Racermate (who makes Computrainer) are now in a giant lawsuit over the new software they were writing.

So really, there is no ideal system out there at the moment. I'd probably still choose the Computrainer over the Tacx models simply because in the end, having reliable hardware is more important than having fancy software.


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## endeavorc (Nov 11, 2007)

I have an 8 year old Tacx Cycleforce Basic. It has been a rock solid trainer and the power is within 3-4 watts of my PowerTap after calibration. I just bought a Bushido as an upgrade. Tacx's hardware is very reliable. 

My TTS (version 3.6) software is working fine except for the RLV videos not working at the moment. A quick search of the forums provided me direction on what to look for and I should be able to fix that this weekend.

Software incompatibilities happen all the time, that is the majority of the problems that people are having. At least Tacx is releasing updates to their software to try and correct the bugs on a consistent basis.


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## Zipp0 (Aug 19, 2008)

I have a Tacx Flow with no VR and it works fine. I will probably never "upgrade" to VR after hearing of all the issues. I am happy for now with power/hr/cadence and the features are just fine for normal training.


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## ohiorick (May 29, 2010)

I have had a Computrainer for over 10 years. Rock solid. The Ergvideo, made to use with a Computrainer is a great product. Live video and a super workout. When I bought my Computrainer, they would let you make monthly payments with little or no interest. It's a great product, well supported and works well.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

ohiorick said:


> I have had a Computrainer for over 10 years. Rock solid. The Ergvideo, made to use with a Computrainer is a great product........


After having my Computrainer since 2003, I finally bought an ErgVideo HD a couple of months ago. Now I have 5 of them. Simply awesome. There are some informational videos on their site which explain them better than I could here. 

They give the Computrainer new life! 

Whatever training you desire, you can get it with the ErgVideo, especially since you can take them and build your own specific workout. 

Visually, it's pretty close to riding with your friends.


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## ohiorick (May 29, 2010)

Merlin,
I agree 100%. I bought one Ergvideo to try it out and have ordered a few more. If I have to ride indoors, this is THE way to do it.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

Erg Video is an excellent product. I really recommend them to CT users looking to extend their indoor sessions beyond 60-90-minutes.


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