# Tubeless offerings? Hutch, Maxxis, Spec, IRC, any others?



## J-dubya (Jun 23, 2010)

I am trying to decide whether to go tubeless. I'm 50 years old and fondly remember the silky ride of my old tubulars. I am looking for all-arounder tires and am a little concerned with reports of the fast wear of the Hutchinson offerings. Are there any other offerings that I might consider?

Which is going to be the best all-arounder with decent wear and comfort. I live in the Pacific Northwest so, although I am more of a fair weather rider as I get older, good in the wet would be a plus.
jws


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

J-dubya said:


> I am trying to decide whether to go tubeless. I'm 50 years old and fondly remember the silky ride of my old tubulars. I am looking for all-arounder tires and am a little concerned with reports of the fast wear of the Hutchinson offerings. Are there any other offerings that I might consider?
> 
> Which is going to be the best all-arounder with decent wear and comfort. I live in the Pacific Northwest so, although I am more of a fair weather rider as I get older, good in the wet would be a plus.
> jws


Hutchinson makes tires for almost everybody, except Maxxis who makes their own tires. That said, Hutchinson has the Intensive tubeless tire, which is supposed to be long-lasting and durable. Feel free to search the forum for the many threads discussing tubeless tire wear. 

That said, I liked my Hutchinson Fusion 3 tubeless and now I also like my Hutchinson Atom tubeless.


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## Brazos (Jun 20, 2009)

My Atom Comps have worn really well. When they do decide to wear out I may try the 25c Intensive tubeless tires. I think they may be the ultimate tire for some of the terrible chip seal roads I do charity rides on each summer. Give tubeless a shot. You should like it. You really don't have much to loose since you can always use regular clinchers and tubes on your tubeless wheelset if you don't find a tubeless tire that wears up to your expectations.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Brazos said:


> My Atom Comps have worn really well. When they do decide to wear out I may try the 25c Intensive tubeless tires. I think they may be the ultimate tire for some of the terrible chip seal roads I do charity rides on each summer. Give tubeless a shot. You should like it. You really don't have much to loose since you can always use regular clinchers and tubes on your tubeless wheelset if you don't find a tubeless tire that wears up to your expectations.


Are Atom Comps tubeless?


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## Brazos (Jun 20, 2009)

Yes. I have the Atom Comp tubeless version.


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## ddimick (Aug 9, 2011)

Specialized tubeless are made by Hutchinson. I'm on Fusion 3s right now but have some IRC Roadlite Tubeless on the way. I've not ridden Maxxis or know anyone who does, so no opinion there.


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## mattsavage (Apr 25, 2007)

ddimick said:


> Specialized tubeless are made by Hutchinson. I'm on Fusion 3s right now but have some IRC Roadlite Tubeless on the way. I've not ridden Maxxis or know anyone who does, so no opinion there.


Lets have a review of those IRC's as soon as you can...

Are you in the US? If so, where did you get them?


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## mattsavage (Apr 25, 2007)

J-dubya said:


> I am trying to decide whether to go tubeless. I'm 50 years old and fondly remember the silky ride of my old tubulars. I am looking for all-arounder tires and am a little concerned with reports of the fast wear of the Hutchinson offerings. Are there any other offerings that I might consider?
> 
> Which is going to be the best all-arounder with decent wear and comfort. I live in the Pacific Northwest so, although I am more of a fair weather rider as I get older, good in the wet would be a plus.
> jws


I use the Hutch. Intensives year round in all conditions. I'm in Portland. I'm super pleased with them. I have no idea how many miles I get out of one tire, but I think it's alot. At 195#, I run them at about 85psi and it's a really good ride. I've used them Corsa Concepts 1.2's, Stans Alpha, and Deep V's. 

The Fusion's wear pretty quick. I probably won't run those again, unless I decide to race some crits this summer and want that tackier rubber.

I saw on a Japanese blog that Panaracer was coming out with a tubeless line, which included a 27mm version, but I haven't seen anything yet.


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## new2rd (Aug 8, 2010)

I've been running the Hutch Intesive on Mavic K10's for the last 1500 miles or so. Not a single flat and ultra comfy without losing any speed. I'm 172 and running 90 psi, can probably go a little lighter, but with my set-up I couldn't ask for more. I haven't tried any of the others, but the Intensive is a good tire.


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## crank1979 (Sep 9, 2007)

I've been running Hutchinson Fusion 3s for a while now and IRC Formula Pro with X-Guard tubeless for a shorter time. I'm running both at 100psi and have a set of C24 TL wheels on each bike.

I like the F3s. They are a decent tyre that do everything well, but not brilliantly. The IRCs are excellent. They feel nicer on the road, have better puncture/cut protection, and grip better than the F3s. The IRCs do wear a little faster than the F3s but that's about it.

I was going to try the Padrones next, but the IRC Roadlites are now available in red so I might give them a try instead. At the moment though I still have a spare F3 to wear through.


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## shoegazer (Nov 2, 2007)

I'm running the Hutchinson Intensive in Stan's 340 rims at 80/85 & I'm 195lbs. They feel great on the chip & seal country roads I frequent for long rides. 
I also run tubular Vittoria Corsas 25mm on the same roads, same pressure. In comparison, they're so similar in feel I wouldn't know which I'm riding necessarily. I'll still prefer & trust aggressive cornering, descents, & such to the Vittorias but I've ridden them forever and have a trusting relationship. 
I'd love a true 25 or 27 in tubeless - the Panaracer news is great to hear.


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## CABGPatchKid (Dec 5, 2011)

I am running the Hutchinson Fusion 3’s on 7850 SLs at 85/95 and I’m 185 lbs
I have 2,400 miles on my rear tire. There are still some miles on them, hard to say how many.
The front is not nearly as worn, as is to be expected.
I do not consider them all that fast wearing. To me the quality of the ride is well worth it.


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## sneakyracer (Dec 1, 2007)

Im 6-2 180lbs and been using Hutchinson Fusion 3's (700x23) on Fulcrum Racing 1 2-way fit wheels with a bit of stans sealant. 

Great smooth ride and handling, awesome grip and extremely reliable.


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## Crawf (Oct 21, 2010)

Any more info on this 27mm Panaracer tubeless tyre? 
I really do hope this becomes widely available and at a reasonable price! Would be perfect on the commuter.


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## ddimick (Aug 9, 2011)

> Lets have a review of those IRC's as soon as you can...
> 
> Are you in the US? If so, where did you get them?


I got them in the mail today and will probably get them on and put some miles in this weekend. I am in the USA but wasn't able to find a source here. Alexscycle.com is a store in Japan that has them online. Great communication from them and will buy from again if the situation warrants.



> I was going to try the Padrones next, but the IRC Roadlites are now available in red so I might give them a try instead.


I got the red ones. :thumbsup:


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## crank1979 (Sep 9, 2007)

ddimick said:


> I am in the USA but wasn't able to find a source here. Alexscycle.com is a store in Japan that has them online. Great communication from them and will buy from again if the situation warrants.
> 
> I got the red ones. :thumbsup:


Nice. I'm in Australia and Alexscycle was the only place I could find them as well.


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## ddimick (Aug 9, 2011)

I got the IRC Roadlite Tubeless on my Fulcrum Racing 3 2-way wheels this morning. Running them dry, for now. They were no more difficult or easy to install than the Fusion 3s. I used a bead jack because I'm lazy. Did a quick ride and so far I like them just fine. They do seem more comfortable but that's a subjective opinion with only 10 miles on them.

I had a nice descent and even though I was trying to take it easy I still hit about 47mph. Tires were solid and didn't feel uncomfortable with the speed at any time.

So jury is still out, for me. They're 50% more expensive than the Hutchinsons so I'll need to like them 50% more to buy another set when they wear out.

And yes, I realize I broke some rule or another by photographing my bike with the business side of the crank/chain/sprockets away from the camera. I'd say it was because I wanted to capture the logo on the tire but truthfully I just forgot. 

View attachment 249566


View attachment 249567


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## pmt (Aug 4, 2009)

They are great tires; I just did another 200k ride yesterday on Fusion 3s.

The most important thing about trying Road Tubeless is to be sure that you understand that they're not the same as regular clinchers. Be sure to practice changing flats in the garage and not out on the road; you have choices as to how you handle flats; again, practice at home where you can take your time and understand it, rather than 100k from home.

While you can put a tube in if the sealant doesn't close a puncture, you can also simply patch it right on the side of the road if you like. Search the forums as there's lots of into about it.


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## CABGPatchKid (Dec 5, 2011)

ddimick

Lookin' Good!


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

How do these tubeless tire seal when they're actually punctured by anything bigger than a thorn, say a staple or small nail? Do they seal at all? and if they do seal, how much pressure are you losing?


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## crank1979 (Sep 9, 2007)

aclinjury said:


> How do these tubeless tire seal when they're actually punctured by anything bigger than a thorn, say a staple or small nail? Do they seal at all? and if they do seal, how much pressure are you losing?


I have run Hutchinson FastAir sealant in the past and it has semi-worked. It has sealed a puncture but never dries properly. In that instance it was a cut about 4mm long and I lost 15psi. I've also had the same stuff not seal a cut about the same size.

I now run Stans and the last flat I had that was sealed was about the same size as above. I felt the sealant spray the back of my leg twice and it was done, I didn't stop to check it or do anything to it. I don't remember how much pressure I lost that time but it wasn't enough to make me want to stop and pump the tyre up a bit more.


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## mattsavage (Apr 25, 2007)

aclinjury said:


> How do these tubeless tire seal when they're actually punctured by anything bigger than a thorn, say a staple or small nail? Do they seal at all? and if they do seal, how much pressure are you losing?


I sliced my Intensive the other day. It was about a half inch long at the center of the tread and about a quarter inch on the inside. It was trying to seal, but after about a mile I'd lost enough air that I couldn't ride anymore. Pulled over, threw a tube in.

They'll seal pretty good sized punctures and things that embed themselves. With a typical puncture, you'd probably only lose a few psi. They don't handle cuts well. I've found multiple staples, wire, glass in my tires after one ride but no flats. That's a ride that starts and ends with 10 miles of old industrial area and lots off RR xings. 

I wouldn't ever run these things dry, no sealant. That partially defeats the purpose.

They won't seal this:


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## castofone (Dec 24, 2010)

I recently replaced my first intensive. The casing was starting to show. I got 12600 km out of it. 
I'm 62 kg and ride on all sorts of roads.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

castofone said:


> I recently replaced my first intensive. The casing was starting to show. I got 12600 km out of it.
> I'm 62 kg and ride on all sorts of roads.


Thanks for sharing the experience. Can you compare the ride quality of the Intensive versus Fusion or Atom?


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

I've been using the Maxxis Padrone tires (on Dura Ace 7900-24-TL wheels) for a few months. I confess to wimping out and letting the LBS mount the suckers (including sealant), but they have been problem free for about 1000 miles so far. My only wish is they were about 100 grams lighter....and $50 cheaper.


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## willieboy (Nov 27, 2010)

shoegazer said:


> I'm running the Hutchinson Intensive in Stan's 340 rims at 80/85 & I'm 195lbs. They feel great on the chip & seal country roads I frequent for long rides.
> I also run tubular Vittoria Corsas 25mm on the same roads, same pressure. In comparison, they're so similar in feel I wouldn't know which I'm riding necessarily. I'll still prefer & trust aggressive cornering, descents, & such to the Vittorias but I've ridden them forever and have a trusting relationship.
> I'd love a true 25 or 27 in tubeless - the Panaracer news is great to hear.


So you would say the tubular and the tubeless feel very similar for road feel? I have a set of conventional alloy clinchers and 1380 grams and a set of Easton EC90SL clinchers at 1530 grams. Wanting to try tubular for the weight savings and ride quality but not so sure about changing one on the road. The tubeless thing is intriguing to me as you say the feel in similar. Of course the weight will be more but a little give and take might be prudent. Thank you for the input


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## dekindy (Jul 7, 2006)

I am 6'2" and 200 lbs. A Hutchinson Intensive tubeless lasts around 3,000 miles on the rear as compared to a Continental Grand Prix 4000S at 1,500 miles.

I have ridden Fusion 2's but it has been awhile and don't recall the mileage and have a set of Fusion 3's that I have not mounted yet. Probably going to run a 3 on the front and the Intensive on the rear.

The Intensives ride just fine as I have ridden several sets mounted on the front and back. I got a really good deal on some 3's from a guy that purchased several sets and claimed they were too hard to mount. Since tire wear on the front is minimal compared to the back I will mount the 3 on the front and see if there is any difference but seriously doubt if there will be much, if any difference in the ride.

I quit using Stan's because it has never sealed a hole yet and it appeared to me they were small enough that they should. The Hutchinson glue works brilliantly in sealing holes as I punctured a brand new tire and the patch held on the sidewall for 3,000 miles.


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## J-dubya (Jun 23, 2010)

XX Cycles in France has some good prices on the Hutchinson tubeless. I ordered some, they should be showing up later this week.
jws


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## roadnottaken (Feb 19, 2012)

*Hutchinson Fusion 3*

New to the tubeless scene. Purchased Hutchinson Fusion 3's and love the ride. I am 165 lbs and ride at 90/95 on rough SC roads. I have roughly 600 miles on these and they developed cracks all over. The front is worse than the rear. There is a 1mm crack down the middle of both tires and intermittently on both sides. I have kept these tires pumped up each week. Has anyone else had this problem? I will not be purchasing Hutchinson again. They have not returned my contact attempts.


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## crank1979 (Sep 9, 2007)

Every Fusion 3 I've had has developed cracks around the tyre where the tread meets the sidewall and some down the centre. I haven't had any issues with the cracks so far but it is a little disconcerting. So far my IRC tyres haven't done this and I've had them for as long as I had the F3s when they developed cracks.


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## pmt (Aug 4, 2009)

roadnottaken said:


> I will not be purchasing Hutchinson again. They have not returned my contact attempts.


If you think they're defective, exchange them through your dealer.


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## carlislegeorge (Mar 28, 2004)

about 1000 miles on maxxis padrones with no cracks. too bad they weigh as much as they do....


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## Yamabushi (Sep 30, 2008)

I'm riding the Padrones for almost a year now and am very happy with the wear(durability), feel, and performance! The only other tubeless tire that interests me is the IRC RBCC.


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## mattsavage (Apr 25, 2007)

roadnottaken said:


> New to the tubeless scene. Purchased Hutchinson Fusion 3's and love the ride. I am 165 lbs and ride at 90/95 on rough SC roads. I have roughly 600 miles on these and they developed cracks all over. The front is worse than the rear. There is a 1mm crack down the middle of both tires and intermittently on both sides. I have kept these tires pumped up each week. Has anyone else had this problem? I will not be purchasing Hutchinson again. They have not returned my contact attempts.


Photo's?

My Intensives and Fusions develope "cracks" or delams on the sidewall, right above the rim lip, kind of between the bead and the sidewall... The rep and several shop persons say it's just cosmetic, not a failure. Disconcerting at first, it happens quickly, but after 1000 miles or so, no issues, I'm not concerned anymore.


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## roadnottaken (Feb 19, 2012)

Yes it is disconcerting when going downhill. My cracks (splitting) happen to be right where the tire meets the road. I will try to send pictures of what it looks like. As far as returning to the LBS, I bought these through Amazon and have not been able to locate the retailer. I think I will continue with tubeless and try Padrones. I am running Shamal Ultras 2 Ways and really like the wheels. Thanks for the feedback.


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## ddimick (Aug 9, 2011)

roadnottaken said:


> Yes it is disconcerting when going downhill. My cracks (splitting) happen to be right where the tire meets the road. I will try to send pictures of what it looks like. As far as returning to the LBS, I bought these through Amazon and have not been able to locate the retailer. I think I will continue with tubeless and try Padrones. I am running Shamal Ultras 2 Ways and really like the wheels. Thanks for the feedback.


If you like Fusion 3s (except the QC), you'll love IRCs. The more I ride them, the better I like them. Four or five models to choose from.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

ddimick said:


> If you like Fusion 3s (except the QC), you'll love IRCs. The more I ride them, the better I like them. Four or five models to choose from.


Ddimick, are you based in the US, and where did you get your IRC tires from? Thinking of trying them out after I wear out my current Hutch Atom tubeless.


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## ddimick (Aug 9, 2011)

orange_julius said:


> Ddimick, are you based in the US, and where did you get your IRC tires from? Thinking of trying them out after I wear out my current Hutch Atom tubeless.


I am, and it seems like alexscycle.com is the only place to buy them online, for us. They're easy to work with, though.

For folks looking for deals on Hutchinsons, check out worldclasscycles.com. $56.50 for Fusion 3 Tubeless. Their website looks like it's from the 90's but I've used them and they are legit.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

ddimick said:


> I am, and it seems like alexscycle.com is the only place to buy them online, for us. They're easy to work with, though.
> 
> For folks looking for deals on Hutchinsons, check out worldclasscycles.com. $56.50 for Fusion 3 Tubeless. Their website looks like it's from the 90's but I've used them and they are legit.


Thanks, Ddimick. IRC tires a bit pricier than Hutch tubeless, but I'm game for trying them.


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## CABGPatchKid (Dec 5, 2011)

Does anyone know what the IRC FORMULA PRO SC TIRE TUBELESS 700C and IRC FORMULA PRO HC TIRE TUBELESS 700C are?

The side wall is showing tubeless. 

IRC Formula Pro SC Folding Tire 100050153 at CambriaBike.com

IRC Formula Pro HC TIRE 100050152 at CambriaBike.com

IRC FORMULA PRO SC TIRE TUBELESS 700C 117 TPI NEW ROAD BIKE 700X23 FOLDABLE | eBay

They are not listed in the IRC site - IRC TIRE GLOBAL SITE | TOP |

And they do not show up on the Alex ‘s Cycle site either

Tyres / Tires :: Tubeless :: Road - Japanese Bicycle Parts


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## mattsavage (Apr 25, 2007)

CABGPatchKid said:


> Does anyone know what the IRC FORMULA PRO SC TIRE TUBELESS 700C and IRC FORMULA PRO HC TIRE TUBELESS 700C are?
> 
> The side wall is showing tubeless.
> 
> ...


I think they're older, closeout models.


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## Yamabushi (Sep 30, 2008)

I live in Japan where IRC is more readily available, and as I mentioned above, if you are looking for a good all around high performance tire, what you want is IRC's RBCC. Their "Top Secret" and their "Light" tire are also interesting but are a lot less puncture resistant. If you are going to try IRC, try the RBCC! BTW, the "Top Secret" appears to be discontinued.

Here are IRC's current offerings: IRC TIRE BYCICLE TIRE OFFICIAL SITE | ROAD


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Yamabushi said:


> I live in Japan where IRC is more readily available, and as I mentioned above, if you are looking for a good all around high performance tire, what you want is IRC's RBCC. Their "Top Secret" and their "Light" tire are also interesting but are a lot less puncture resistant. If you are going to try IRC, try the RBCC! BTW, the "Top Secret" appears to be discontinued.
> 
> Here are IRC's current offerings: IRC TIRE BYCICLE TIRE OFFICIAL SITE | ROAD


Yamanushi, can you compare the IRC RBCC and the Maxxis Padrone, please? Thanks.


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## Yamabushi (Sep 30, 2008)

orange_julius said:


> Yamanushi, can you compare the IRC RBCC and the Maxxis Padrone, please? Thanks.


Sorry... unfortunately, I can't. I only have direct tubeless experience with the Padrones which I really like. Prior to tubeless I was riding the Continental GP4000s. That being said, my main riding buddy has had a very positive experience with IRC.


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## razardica (Sep 25, 2011)

I run mountain tubeless - I am going to investigate road tubeless as soon as possible. It's been VERY safe on the mountain, where I think the impacts and the forces applied to the tire are greater.

I've heard you can run Ksyrium SLs tubeless with no tape (or sealant - but sealant is always a good idea), just some tubeless tires.


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## ddimick (Aug 9, 2011)

razardica said:


> I run mountain tubeless - I am going to investigate road tubeless as soon as possible. It's been VERY safe on the mountain, where I think the impacts and the forces applied to the tire are greater.
> 
> I've heard you can run Ksyrium SLs tubeless with no tape (or sealant - but sealant is always a good idea), just some tubeless tires.


Yes, you can run them without tape as there are no spoke holes in the rim. My friend has about 1,000 miles with Ksyrium SLs and Fusion 3 tubeless, no rim tape. He runs sealant but don't see why you couldn't run them dry, if that's what you wanted to do. Might be some bead leakage but I doubt it would be significant.

He did have to switch to the tubeless stems with the square rubber block. The round plug on Stan's stems isn't large enough for these wheels.

One difference is that he has to use an air compressor or CO2 to get them to seat. With my tubeless-specific wheels I can just use a floor pump.


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## nis240sxt (Oct 6, 2004)

Does anybody know if the IRC tubeless tires have carbon beads? I normally run Hutchinson tubeless on my carbon clinchers with stan's road tubeless conversion and it requires a carbon bead. Willing to try IRC if they meet this criteria, wanted to be safer than sorry. Couldn't find any information on them about the bead material. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

Trek will be coming out with a tubeless tire soon. The Bontrager R4 Tubeless, it will be running at 290g per tire.

Zane


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## purdyd (Jun 18, 2010)

nis240sxt said:


> Does anybody know if the IRC tubeless tires have carbon beads? I normally run Hutchinson tubeless on my carbon clinchers with stan's road tubeless conversion and it requires a carbon bead. Willing to try IRC if they meet this criteria, wanted to be safer than sorry. Couldn't find any information on them about the bead material. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.


I believe all tubeless have carbon beads, they have to be very low stretch or they will blow off the rim

Irc will work fine, I have been using them and fusion 3s for awhile


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## BillyWayne (Aug 1, 2011)

Schwalbe will be offering the Ultermo as tubeless as well.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

A Schwalbe would be nice. They seem to hold up better in the drier climates like where I live.

Zane


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## NWS Alpine (Mar 16, 2012)

Zen Cyclery said:


> Trek will be coming out with a tubeless tire soon. The Bontrager R4 Tubeless, it will be running at 290g per tire.
> 
> Zane


Is this a new version? The R4 tubeless has been out for a couple years. Also just another hutchinson rebranded tire.


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## mattsavage (Apr 25, 2007)

Hutchinson is releasing the Intensive in 28c:

Hutchinson Launch Seven New Tires - BikeRadar


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

roadnottaken said:


> New to the tubeless scene. Purchased Hutchinson Fusion 3's and love the ride. I am 165 lbs and ride at 90/95 on rough SC roads. I have roughly 600 miles on these and they developed cracks all over. The front is worse than the rear. There is a 1mm crack down the middle of both tires and intermittently on both sides. I have kept these tires pumped up each week. Has anyone else had this problem? I will not be purchasing Hutchinson again. They have not returned my contact attempts.


This is exactly the problem I had with some Hutchinson Fusion 'Long Distance' tires (ironically named), which have since been discontinued. Plenty of tread left, but discarded them due to the cracks. Always stored the bike inside away from UV. Never got a reply from Hutchinson either. These weren't tubeless but clinchers. They are obstinate: I once sent them the same e-mail daily for two weeks just to see what happens but they never responded. Hate to think what one poster said that they make tires for a lot of other manufacturers.


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## Keith A (Jan 19, 2007)

Clevor said:


> ... Hate to think what one poster said that they make tires for a lot of other manufacturers.


On the other hand, maybe the other manufactures might have better customer service...even if they didn't make the tire themselves. I'm pretty sure they are making Specialized tubeless tires.


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## Dersnap (Mar 28, 2012)

Clevor said:


> This is exactly the problem I had with some Hutchinson Fusion 'Long Distance' tires (ironically named), which have since been discontinued. Plenty of tread left, but discarded them due to the cracks. Always stored the bike inside away from UV. Never got a reply from Hutchinson either. These weren't tubeless but clinchers. They are obstinate: I once sent them the same e-mail daily for two weeks just to see what happens but they never responded. Hate to think what one poster said that they make tires for a lot of other manufacturers.


Get them on Facebook as it gets far more attention. I posted and got a reply from one guy but its been months with nothing so far been done on this. My tire blew right out as I posted in another thread with basically no KM's.. The front tire I am still using and its been great with zero cracks and better looking than my Scwable Ultremo DD. But they have well over 4K KM's.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

Dersnap said:


> Get them on Facebook as it gets far more attention. I posted and got a reply from one guy but its been months with nothing so far been done on this. My tire blew right out as I posted in another thread with basically no KM's.. The front tire I am still using and its been great with zero cracks and better looking than my Scwable Ultremo DD. But they have well over 4K KM's.


I think this RBR site could really use a forum specifically for gripes and beefs that we have about certain manufacturers. There seems to be a dedicated forum for almost everything else! 

Like for example how Louis Garneau refuses to supply replacement helmet pads for a helmet model that is only two years old! What am I supposed to do, junk the helmet? Pretty ridiculous.


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## new2rd (Aug 8, 2010)

Update: Just went over 3500 miles on my original Hutch Intensives and got my first flat. Sealant was a bit old, tire went down to probably 20 psi and I road the next 2.5 miles as fast as I could to get home. I decided there were enough small cuts to justify a new tire, but at the LBS the tire inflated just fine and held. The sealant worked, but 3500 miles is enough for a set of tires. Did I mention this was my first flat with these? Not sure there's anything better out there. Comfy ride, no flats, and long wear = perfect tire for me.


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## Crawf (Oct 21, 2010)

mattsavage said:


> Hutchinson is releasing the Intensive in 28c:
> 
> Hutchinson Launch Seven New Tires - BikeRadar


Any details on when these hit the shelves?


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## imitsus (Aug 16, 2010)

*my feedback*

I ve just put an atom at front and fusion3 at rear Eurus 2wayfit wheelset

I think I ve passed in tubeless era for good

very happy with ride quality / feedback from the road. Very very very good on road anomalies. Great. I m entousiastic, I know, time will tell the truth about tires, but I like them a lot. 

Also, I ve just read this fall there ll be a new ATOM @ 245gr!!!:thumbsup:


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## bicyclebob123 (Aug 22, 2012)

I am a randonneur, so long distances, relatively slow and steady pace. I went tubeless last summer, and after riding 3,000 km on Hutchinson Intensives saw very many disturbing cracks at the rims, as described above in this thread. I went to my LBS, and they replaced the tires, since they had not seen this before - tubeless being relatively new to them also. Now I have gone through another pair of tires, cracks at less than 3,000 km. Hutchinson says I need to watch the pressure - I have not overinflated past their recommended max of 116 psi, and perhaps in the heat of the summer the pressure does goes up. My question is - are these cracks really cosmetic? I read above some are continuing to ride with these cracks and having no problems - it's not easy to do when some look so deep and extensive. Is it due to overinflation? People are telling me to ride with psi's about 95 - 100. Is that the way to go? Thanks!


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## new2rd (Aug 8, 2010)

116? Theres a reason why they are telling you to watch pressure. I've never heard of anyone exceeding 100 with tubeless. I'm running 85-90 without any problems or extra rolling resistance.


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## bicyclebob123 (Aug 22, 2012)

116 because that's the maximum recommended by the manufacturer. Going from tubes to tubeless, it's hard to accept that with tubeless you might have less rolling resistance with a lower than max pressure.


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## Yamabushi (Sep 30, 2008)

bicyclebob123 said:


> I am a randonneur, so long distances, relatively slow and steady pace. I went tubeless last summer, and after riding 3,000 km on Hutchinson Intensives saw very many disturbing cracks at the rims, as described above in this thread. I went to my LBS, and they replaced the tires, since they had not seen this before - tubeless being relatively new to them also. Now I have gone through another pair of tires, cracks at less than 3,000 km. Hutchinson says I need to watch the pressure - I have not overinflated past their recommended max of 116 psi, and perhaps in the heat of the summer the pressure does goes up. My question is - are these cracks really cosmetic? I read above some are continuing to ride with these cracks and having no problems - it's not easy to do when some look so deep and extensive. Is it due to overinflation? People are telling me to ride with psi's about 95 - 100. Is that the way to go? Thanks!


Unless there is a significant weight issue, there is no reason to use such high pressure. If there is a weight issue, you should be using a larger tire. How much do you and your bike weigh?



bicyclebob123 said:


> 116 because that's the maximum recommended by the manufacturer. Going from tubes to tubeless, it's hard to accept that with tubeless you might have less rolling resistance with a lower than max pressure.


It's a common misunderstanding that the higher the tire pressure the lower the rolling resistance. That only holds true on a perfectly smooth surface. The proper tire pressure, which is dependent on the weight of the load, but which will almost certainly be less than 116psi, will yield a lower rolling resistance.


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## bicyclebob123 (Aug 22, 2012)

I weigh 170 - 175, bike weight varies - training rides probably about 27 lbs, but with my rack and bag and load for the long rides closer to 40 lbs. 
My biggest concern is the cracks - to me cracks around the rim would more likely be due to too little pressure, with the rims pressing on the tires, rather than too much pressure.


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## Yamabushi (Sep 30, 2008)

bicyclebob123 said:


> I weigh 170 - 175, bike weight varies - training rides probably about 27 lbs, but with my rack and bag and load for the long rides closer to 40 lbs.
> My biggest concern is the cracks - to me cracks around the rim would more likely be due to too little pressure, with the rims pressing on the tires, rather than too much pressure.


IMHO, you are dealing with two mostly unrelated issues. If you're tires are cracking, especially on the sidewalls then most likely they are drying out and/or sitting out in the direct sun for too long and getting UV damaged. Do you store your bike outside? Try some tire cream and check where you are storing your bike.

Regarding tire pressure, here is a good chart that should offer a reasonable idea of what sort of pressures you should be using: Michelin Bicycle USA - A better way forward®. From that chart, I'd normally reduce a little bit for tubeless. That being said, with the load you are carrying a 700x23 tire is really pushing it. I'd definitely recommend a bigger tire, at least a 700x25 if not bigger.


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## AM999 (Jan 22, 2007)

Do the IRC Roadlites use a natural rubber (latex) inner pressure containment layer ??


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## bicyclebob123 (Aug 22, 2012)

Thanks, but the bike is only outside when I ride! Storage is in the house. The cracks are close to the rim, and the rest of the tire looks in great shape.


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## Yamabushi (Sep 30, 2008)

AM999 said:


> Do the IRC Roadlites use a natural rubber (latex) inner pressure containment layer ??


No, I don't believe so. See here: IRC TIRE BYCICLE TIRE OFFICIAL SITE | ROAD | ROADLITE TUBELESShttp://www.irc-tire.com/en/bc/products/road/roadlite/. They used to make a tire called "Top Secret" that had a latex inner lining, but it looks like they aren't making it anymore.



bicyclebob123 said:


> Thanks, but the bike is only outside when I ride! Storage is in the house. The cracks are close to the rim, and the rest of the tire looks in great shape.


I've always heard mixed things about Hutchinson's QC. I'd try some tire cream on your existing tires and once you wear those out, try a different brand. BTW, it looks like IRC is now making some larger size tubeless tires: IRC TIRE BYCICLE TIRE OFFICIAL SITE | ROAD | REDSTORM STREET


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## mattsavage (Apr 25, 2007)

bicyclebob123 said:


> I am a randonneur, so long distances, relatively slow and steady pace. I went tubeless last summer, and after riding 3,000 km on Hutchinson Intensives saw very many disturbing cracks at the rims, as described above in this thread. I went to my LBS, and they replaced the tires, since they had not seen this before - tubeless being relatively new to them also. Now I have gone through another pair of tires, cracks at less than 3,000 km. Hutchinson says I need to watch the pressure - I have not overinflated past their recommended max of 116 psi, and perhaps in the heat of the summer the pressure does goes up. My question is - are these cracks really cosmetic? I read above some are continuing to ride with these cracks and having no problems - it's not easy to do when some look so deep and extensive. Is it due to overinflation? People are telling me to ride with psi's about 95 - 100. Is that the way to go? Thanks!


Just cosmetic... All my Intensives develope that.

I'm 210# and occasionally ride with a 25-30# backpack to/from work. I run 90psi rear, 85 front with no problems. Lower psi is one of the benefits to tubeless.


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## mattsavage (Apr 25, 2007)

Yamabushi said:


> BTW, it looks like IRC is now making some larger size tubeless tires: IRC TIRE BYCICLE TIRE OFFICIAL SITE | ROAD | REDSTORM STREET


I don't think that's tubeless... 

IRC TIRE BYCICLE TIRE OFFICIAL SITE | ROAD


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

bicyclebob123 said:


> Now I have gone through another pair of tires, cracks at less than 3,000 km. Hutchinson says I need to watch the pressure - I have not overinflated past their recommended max of 116 psi, and perhaps in the heat of the summer the pressure does goes up.


Did you call Hutchinson? Because I'd be really surprised if they replied by e-mail on this issue. 

Why don't they just make the tires from automobile rubber already. Car tires can develop cracks, but only after a very long time, such as several years (5+).

In my experience, the cracks don't develop from miles of use, it's time based. I didn't put a lot of miles on my Hutchinson tires but they developed cracks after a few months.


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## bicyclebob123 (Aug 22, 2012)

_Did you call Hutchinson? Because I'd be really surprised if they replied by e-mail on this issue. _

Hutchinson does not have any contact info on their site - they want you to deal with the retailers. They do offer an address to send returns.


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## Yamabushi (Sep 30, 2008)

mattsavage said:


> I don't think that's tubeless...
> 
> IRC TIRE BYCICLE TIRE OFFICIAL SITE | ROAD


Oops, you are correct, my mistake!


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## Dersnap (Mar 28, 2012)

bicyclebob123 said:


> _Did you call Hutchinson? Because I'd be really surprised if they replied by e-mail on this issue. _
> 
> Hutchinson does not have any contact info on their site - they want you to deal with the retailers. They do offer an address to send returns.


Good luck on that as I think their Customer service sucks. I have had their tires go from good to complete failure. Shows its just not reliable manufacturing. In the future I will do my best to not use them and on my Road bike may even go back to just sew ups. Its been almost 4-5 months and still no replacement tire. Worse is if the blow out I had was on a DH you better believe it would be close to fatal. How would anyone in their logical mind recommend that?

**Cross fingers on Scwables offering**


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

Yamabushi said:


> IMHO, you are dealing with two mostly unrelated issues. If you're tires are cracking, especially on the sidewalls then most likely they are drying out and/or sitting out in the direct sun for too long and getting UV damaged. Do you store your bike outside? Try some tire cream and check where you are storing your bike.


My Hutchinson Fusion Long Distance tires had less than 1000 miles when the cracking started. The bike was stored indoors in an air conditioned climate! :nonod:

I junked the tires and am currently using the Maxxis Radiale. No cracks, of course.

I have a junker ATB bike I do sidewalk riding on in the city. I have Nashbar $11 wire bead tires on it. Have left it outside in the heat and humidity of Okinawa the last 4 years. Constantly fighting rust and corrosion on components. No cracks on the tires. :thumbsup: Granted, the bike is stored in shade, but the tires have been on the bike for around eight years.


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## crank1979 (Sep 9, 2007)

Yamabushi said:


> Oops, you are correct, my mistake!


I noticed this 25C Roadlite option when I bought another set of Formula Pro with X-Guard tyres. I don't remember it being there when I bought my first set.


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