# Duotrap info needed



## rb1freak

My '10 Madone has the nifty duotrap mount in the rear stays and I'm itching to make use of it. I cannot find any information about adapters/sensors for purchase. Sure, the Trek website boasts that it's ANT+ compatible but after scouring the internet duotrap sensors look a lot like vaporware to me.

Can someone point me in the right direction for real product information? At the very least, I'm curious when such hardware will be available. 

thanks in advance.


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## JSummers

Trek makes a computer that already works with it, and Powertap also. Far as I know its is up and running


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## RaginCajun

*DuoTrap info*

I just bought a '10 Madone 4.5 and my local bike shop guy just came back from visiting the TREK convention last week. He said TREK is a little slow in coming out with the DuoTrap but it's on the way. But that it will be a transmitter only, you have to buy the computer separate. But he said the transmitter will be using a "standardized" technology, meaning that it should work with different manufacturers' computers, TREK, Garmin, etc.

For now I'm just using a wired CatEye and will later upgrade once they are out and more info and options are available from different vendors.


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## ph0enix

RaginCajun said:


> I just bought a '10 Madone 4.5 and my local bike shop guy just came back from visiting the TREK convention last week. He said TREK is a little slow in coming out with the DuoTrap but it's on the way. But that it will be a transmitter only, you have to buy the computer separate. But he said the transmitter will be using a "standardized" technology, meaning that it should work with different manufacturers' computers, TREK, Garmin, etc.
> 
> For now I'm just using a wired CatEye and will later upgrade once they are out and more info and options are available from different vendors.


I thought the built-in DuoTrap sensor was a 6.x series frame exclusive. You have it on the 4.5?


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## RaginCajun

Yes it is on my 4.5 frame as well. I will post a photo later but yep, it's there.


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## ph0enix

RaginCajun said:


> Yes it is on my 4.5 frame as well. I will post a photo later but yep, it's there.


No need for a photo. I believe you


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## RaginCajun

Not a problem, it was just an excuse for me to take a photo of my new bike!!! LOL!!!

BTW....here's an article about the 2010 Madones with some pictures and it mentions the DuoTrap.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/trek-launches-2010-madone-range


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## ph0enix

RaginCajun said:


> Not a problem, it was just an excuse for me to take a photo of my new bike!!! LOL!!!


Well, in this case you should definitely post it


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## ph0enix

Now I know why I'm confused. The 4's and the 6's have DuoTrap listed in the frame spec, the 5's don't (only single sensor SpeedTrap in the fork). Why wouldn't the 5's have it?


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## rb1freak

The Madone 5 series is a carry over from 09. The 4 and 6 series are all new for 2010.


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## ph0enix

rb1freak said:


> The Madone 5 series is a carry over from 09. The 4 and 6 series are all new for 2010.


Ah, more of a reason to choose the 6 over the 5 for the extra few hundred bucks.


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## charlieboy

*some duotrap ANT+ compatible suppliers...*

http://www.thisisant.com/pages/ant/interoperability-matrix


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## MarvinK

Trek dealers can already order both the Duotrap sensors and Bontrager Node computers. They're supposed to show up around the end of the month, from what I've heard. The Bontrager Node computer has just about everything except GPS and Power for around $100. Figured it's worth a try vs a $700 Garmin... since I don't need maps. I'll post something when my computer and/or Duotrap show up.


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## WaCougMBS

First post - it's great to be here!

So, does anyone know when the Bontrager Node computer is coming out and where I can find information on it? 

I recently purchased a 2010 Trek Madone 4.7 and am looking to get the Duotrap (by the way, does anyone know about when it will come out? Late Sept maybe?) and a good reliable digital computer to go with it. I am not able to spend $500 on the Garmin, and would rather not even buy one of Trek's $120+ ones if there is a comparable model from Bontrager. So basically, any and all information on this would be a great help to me!

Thanks guys and gals!


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## eisidor

WaCougMBS said:


> First post - it's great to be here!
> 
> So, does anyone know when the Bontrager Node computer is coming out and where I can find information on it?
> 
> I recently purchased a 2010 Trek Madone 4.7 and am looking to get the Duotrap (by the way, does anyone know about when it will come out? Late Sept maybe?) and a good reliable digital computer to go with it. I am not able to spend $500 on the Garmin, and would rather not even buy one of Trek's $120+ ones if there is a comparable model from Bontrager. So basically, any and all information on this would be a great help to me!
> 
> Thanks guys and gals!


If you don't want to shell out for the full blown Garmin Edge, take a look at the Garmin Forerunner series. They are meant to be used for a mixture of running and bike use. Get the quick release bike mount and it makes a great bike computer. I use a Forerunner 305 with the speed/cadence sensor on my bike. You should be able to get it for between $100-$200 depending on where you get it. And with the right tools (i.e. bikeroutetoaster.com) it can be used for navigation as well. Just stay away from the Forerunner 405.


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## atown117

Sounds like I may just have to drop by my LBS and order one of these for my new bike. Anyone know what the MSRP on these things are going to be?


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## WaCougMBS

*Most recent info:*

This was the response I got after e-mailing Bontrager to find out about the Node computer that goes with the DuoTrap. Trek never responded with a price for the DuoTrap, simply telling me it would be "similar" to the SpeedTrap (MSRP of $35, I believe):

"The Node computers will be available in mid October sometime and the pricing is $74.99 for the Node 1 and $139.99 for the Node 2. The details I have on them at this time are as follows:

Bontrager Node Digital

* ANT + enabled, 2.4gHz digitally coded transmission
* Node computers DO NOT INCLUDE speed sensors. An ANT+ speed sensor or combo sensor needs to be purchased separately to complete the kit
* Node 1 can expand to add CAD and HR with optional ANT+ sensors
* Node 2 includes ANT+ Bontrager softstrap HR kit
* Node is the next generation of digitally coded cycling computers with an easy to use interface and expandability
* Node computers can receive data from 3rd party power devices that are ANT+ compatible
* Node 2 has an altimeter and % grade functions
* Additional features include auto start, 20 min time-out sensors, settable interval timer
* Node computers will PAIR and Connect with all sensors in parallel"


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## atown117

Thanks for the info on the duotrap. I like the thought of the speed/cadence sensor being integrated into the frame unlike the garmin which sticks out like a sore thumb. Definetly excited to get one of these to sync up with the garmin, so i can get rid of that bulky thing they call a speed and cadence sensor.


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## WaCougMBS

atown117 said:


> Thanks for the info on the duotrap. I like the thought of the speed/cadence sensor being integrated into the frame unlike the garmin which sticks out like a sore thumb. Definetly excited to get one of these to sync up with the garmin, so i can get rid of that bulky thing they call a speed and cadence sensor.


No prob! It sounds very cool indeed, I can hardly wait! Though by the time I get one, the snow will be on the ground here, but at least it gives me another reason to look forward to Christmas!

Just as a point of interest, which 2010 model do you own? :idea:


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## atown117

Well technically it's not in my posession yet at least. Should be here next week. It's a Project 1 6.9 with Force componets and mostly Race X Lite stuff. I can hardly wait for it to arrive.


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## Orph

*ANT+ Info - What Little I Know, Anyway*

Hello, All.

I just received my 2010 Madone 6.9 (P1) about two weeks ago. Even before it came in, I was told that Trek\Bontrager was behind in getting sensors out in time to be shipped with the new bikes.

I had a 2007 5.9SL that was totaled out when a motorist hit me while I was riding. I have to admit, it's a world of difference between the switching (gears) and handling of the 5.9 vs the 6.9. Of course, to be fair, the OCLV2 carbon (now called Red) is far stiffer than the 110 I had on my 5.9.

I did have the occassion to ask another Trek dealer about pricing on the DuoTrap sensor and he quoted me about $60.00 (although, as he was looking in his book, I was able to read it (upside down) and noted that the listed price was actually $27.99). Some of the Garmin items do work with the ANT+ radio protocols so when they do become available, there will be computer hardware out there already.

In the meantime, I've opted to use a Mavic WinTech Ultimate computer on my bike. I found a killer deal from an online retailer - just $99! And, yes, it was new (and no, it was *not* eBay). The main thing I like about the Mavic is that the sensor is in the skewer, so no more plastic wire ties to hold sensors to the fork like I had with my CatEye Micro Wireless.

Incidentally, the Trek part number for the chainstay DuoTrap sensor is 411775 but doing a search on their site with that number returns no results...yet.


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## WaCougMBS

I'm guessing $27.99 was the wholesale, so we can count on paying somewhere between $45-60 depending on the margins for the DuoTrap and/or the specific shop in question. No matter what it costs, I can't wait for it to come out already! The good news if you're interested in the Node computers from Bontrager is that they are cheaper than Trek's Incite computers because they don't come with their own sensor (knowing full well you're most likely buying for a DuoTrap or something similar)...


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## Orph

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Although, I do feel doubling the cost of a product to attain its retail price is somewhat excessive.

I just went to Bontrager's site and didn't find anything about the Node Digital. Googling returned nothing, either. Where were you able to find information on them? I'm not too thrilled with the aesthetics of the Trek Incite computers. Maybe Bonti's will be more appealing.


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## WaCougMBS

The only information I have been able to get on the computers was through e-mails to Trek and Bonty, which I got responses to and posted a little ways up the thread - your LBS probably knows about them if they sell Trek, but other than LBSs and the online question-answer session I've had, the information seems to be very closely guarded (which is starting to make me think that mid-October might be a liberal estimate and they're running behind schedule). It won't matter to me, as I'll be riding inside until March once they come out, but it's still annoying that they couldn't launch them when the bikes came out, AND that there is NOTHING to be found about them online other than the chatter on this forum and one picture I found (that looks to be a prototype, judging by the fact that the page has been up a while and has the ONLY picture I could find)...

http://tour-de-france.velonews.com/photo/94627


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## Orph

I tell ya', I wish I could find a computer that would display current speed (largest characters), average speed and distance traveled, simultaneously.

It's a real pain to have to keep switching between screens to see all the data that you should be able to see on one screen. I've heard tale of a computer that you can custom program to show you what you want, in the order you want it, on the screen. Has anyone ever heard of such?


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## Orph

*Something More Concrete - Now it just needs to cure*

Well, I just called Trek Online Store and spoke to someone who informed me the DuoTrap sensors are expected to be available in Mid-October 2009. MSRP is $54.99.

She stated pre-orders are not possible via the online store but our Trek dealer could handle that aspect.


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## Bry03cobra

This will be on my 6.5 madone as soon as they are released.....Click here....Garmin Edge 500


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## joseph42s

*Find anything out about the Trek Onboard sensor*

I have a 4.7 2010 with the sensor. Can I just buy a Garmin and it will work? Anyone get the info sensor in the frame to work yet?

I could care less about a map, but it would be cool to have a cpu that allows me to download my track, miles, heart rate etc. Does the 400 do this all?


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## WaCougMBS

Where did you get the sensor? I still can't find anything about it and have been told 2-3+ weeks by my LBS...

Did you buy the speed trap by mistake? If it isn't working, I am going to guess that is what might have happened. The DuoTrap will work with the Garmin devices as long as they are Amp+, but like I said, as far as I know the sensor isn't out yet?


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## joseph42s

*I do not have the sensor*

I just have what came with the bike. I assumed the sensor was in the cover. Yea my LBS did not know much excecpt the 2-4 weeks thing.


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## Orph

*Gramin FR60*

Try the Garmin FR60. It's a watch that does everything you've specified you're looking for and it even interfaces with your computer to download the historical information so you can keep track of your progress. It also boasts ANT+ and should work with the new DuoTrap sensor when they (finally) hit the market in (projected) mid-October 2009.


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## rskiba

*DuoTrap Available 10/08/09*

They are now available. I had one on backorder and my LBS got two in today. I was able to get it installed and sync'd. There are very few instructions that come with the unit so I had to play around with how to get the sensor to go into sync mode. You have to remove the battery and then it will work. You also have to be very careful re-installing the battery since it has to sit in the correct position to have the contacts seat. The battery really does not sit into a battery "pocket" and that sometimes means the electrical contacts are not in the right position.

Once it was paired my Garmin 705 picked up cadence and speed without issue. I know that the speed is coming from the wheel sensor since I had the bike in a stationary trainer.

--Rob


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## joseph42s

awesome!


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## WaCougMBS

I can hardly wait now!


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## rskiba

Not sure how my post last night got into the wrong flow of this thread....but, I am happy to report that the duotrap worked flawlessly last night on my trainer ride for 30 minutes and then again this AM just to check that all was still paired and working! I do have my lbs calling Trek this AM though to get more technical info on how this thing works since the lights did flash this morning and appear to work after a timeout period to let you know there is still power there. More to come but the good news is they are available and seem to work fine!

--Rob


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## gnirmul

I was able to order a Node 2 computer and Duotrap sensor on the Trek website.


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## WaCougMBS

*Oh yeah!*

I see 'em up there now, though you have to do some digging to find them! I just don't know if I should wait for my LBS to get mine in, or just order it right now...


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## WaCougMBS

Just a heads up guys/gals - looks like the Node 2 is $10 bucks cheaper on Bontrager's site than it is on Trek's. The DuoTrap is still $54.99 on both sites tho...


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## srosenfeld

Orph said:


> I tell ya', I wish I could find a computer that would display current speed (largest characters), average speed and distance traveled, simultaneously.
> 
> It's a real pain to have to keep switching between screens to see all the data that you should be able to see on one screen. I've heard tale of a computer that you can custom program to show you what you want, in the order you want it, on the screen. Has anyone ever heard of such?


The Garmin Edge 705 will do that -- it's expensive though.


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## joseph42s

Just got the sensor. It came with strap on sensor for the crank arm. I assume I take the pedal off and slide that on and it will give me Cadence. Do I need to add a magnet to the wheel for speed? I think i want to get a 705 Garmin to Pair with it. so any advice would be great.


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## joseph42s

rskiba said:


> They are now available. I had one on backorder and my LBS got two in today. I was able to get it installed and sync'd. There are very few instructions that come with the unit so I had to play around with how to get the sensor to go into sync mode. You have to remove the battery and then it will work. You also have to be very careful re-installing the battery since it has to sit in the correct position to have the contacts seat. The battery really does not sit into a battery "pocket" and that sometimes means the electrical contacts are not in the right position.
> 
> Once it was paired my Garmin 705 picked up cadence and speed without issue. I know that the speed is coming from the wheel sensor since I had the bike in a stationary trainer.
> 
> --Rob


I just read on the ANT link posted that the 705 does not ANT communicate with speed, cadence. Does anyone use the Garmin with the duo trap? Its supprising how bad the lack of information on these websites are about their products.


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## MarvinK

I believe the 705 supports speed, cadence and heart rate through ANT+, but the 305 was only heartrate. I got a Duotrap and Node 2 this week. You will need a wheel magnet and you do need to remove the pedal to install the cadence strap... With the thin side facing out. 

The Node 2 is easily the best Trek computer ever made, and the price is very reasonable. I don't want the bulk that comes with maps, and I think the Garmin equivalent of the Node 2 isn't due out for several months. The Garmin does have good PC software, which is a big plus. I would rate the Node an 8.5... With the biggest drawback being lack of pc software. It auto-starts, unlike many digital wireless computers and is easy to use.


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## rskiba

I took the pedal off and made sure I did not "over-stretch" the included magnet to be certain it would stay in place. I used a cat eye magnet for the speed since the Trek one I had did not register as easily as the cat eye - I think those cat mags are stronger than the Trek.

Mine paired very easily with my Garmin 705. The Duotrap for certain is sending speed and cadence since I am using it in the trainer so it is impossible for it to be using gps for speed calculations. I love the 705 and have not had any issues. Let me know if you have more specific questions.

--Rob


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## nor_cal_rider

Just saw the Duotrap and Node computers at tmy LBS yesterday while ordering my new 6 Series P1. Was somewhat skeptical at the store, but might jsut be sold after doing some reading.

Anyone using a wireless ANT+ device with a NightRider headlamp? I had heard of interferance problems with some of the wireless computers (305/705/VDO) and headlights and was curious as to if that had been straightened out as of yet.


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## srosenfeld

nor_cal_rider said:


> Anyone using a wireless ANT+ device with a NightRider headlamp? I had heard of interferance problems with some of the wireless computers (305/705/VDO) and headlights and was curious as to if that had been straightened out as of yet.


Don't know about NiteRider, but I use a Light & Motion SECA 700 headlamp and an ANT+ PT with a Garmin 705 -- no problems whatsoever.


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## nor_cal_rider

Thanx sroesnfeld....looks like I'll be adding a Node 2 and duotrap to my new Madone and a 2nd duotrap for my trainer


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## Gurn Blanston

I just bought my Node 2 last Saturday for my 2010 P1 Madone 6.9, and I love it. I love the big, bright display much better than my Cateye Strada. And, I must say, I love my new placid blue Madone 6.9. It's so sweet.


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## mhopton

I purchased a Node 2 and duotrap couple days back while waiting for my P1 6.9Pro to come in; however, I realized through some reading that it is NOT downloadable - is that correct? What's the point of HR data, etc w/out it being downloadable?

I might return it after all...


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## 55x11

mhopton said:


> I purchased a Node 2 and duotrap couple days back while waiting for my P1 6.9Pro to come in; however, I realized through some reading that it is NOT downloadable - is that correct? What's the point of HR data, etc w/out it being downloadable?
> 
> I might return it after all...


It is not downloadable - you use it as real-time evaluation only. I had a chance to test it and duotrap/Node 2 work pretty well together. The altitude has a bit of lag, as do all atmospheric-pressure based altimeters - it takes about 20 seconds to update it, so the reading corresponds to the altitude you were at about 20 seconds ago. The same goes for incline - it is not the instantaneous measurement, but rather some sort of lagging, time-averaged value. Also, the absolute values of altutitude obviously vary with weather (high/low pressure) patterns - so overall, the altitude could be used accurately to evaluate steady, long climbs, but not for short hills with a lot of incline variation.

I am personally not a big fan of dealing with too much data - for many rides I would purposefully leave my computer at home, or at least tape over the display. The most meaningful parameters are speed, cadence and total mileage/time - in that order. Perhaps heart rate, but most riders should be able to evaluate the level of their effort without looking at HR. Power and full-blown GPS are overkill for practical training purposes, IMPO - as is ability to download all of this data - I would rather spend more time riding than sitting in front of computer charting plots - but it's a matter of personal taste. 

From this perspective, Node 1 or Node 2, together with duotrap, provide a nice clean integration, and plenty of meaningful, real-time information.


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## mhopton

55x11 said:


> It is not downloadable - you use it as real-time evaluation only. I had a chance to test it and duotrap/Node 2 work pretty well together. The altitude has a bit of lag, as do all atmospheric-pressure based altimeters - it takes about 20 seconds to update it, so the reading corresponds to the altitude you were at about 20 seconds ago. The same goes for incline - it is not the instantaneous measurement, but rather some sort of lagging, time-averaged value. Also, the absolute values of altutitude obviously vary with weather (high/low pressure) patterns - so overall, the altitude could be used accurately to evaluate steady, long climbs, but not for short hills with a lot of incline variation.
> 
> I am personally not a big fan of dealing with too much data - for many rides I would purposefully leave my computer at home, or at least tape over the display. The most meaningful parameters are speed, cadence and total mileage/time - in that order. Perhaps heart rate, but most riders should be able to evaluate the level of their effort without looking at HR. Power and full-blown GPS are overkill for practical training purposes, IMPO - as is ability to download all of this data - I would rather spend more time riding than sitting in front of computer charting plots - but it's a matter of personal taste.
> 
> From this perspective, Node 1 or Node 2, together with duotrap, provide a nice clean integration, and plenty of meaningful, real-time information.



Good insight and thoughts. I don't use my Polar much, so it's probably a moot point to think that I'd be downloading anything. I agree that a nicely integrated system with real-time, or close to real-time is more valuable.

thx


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## roadaddict101

i ordering a p1 6.9 in a number of weeks so the bikes come without the duotrap sensor ??


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## rskiba

The 2010 4 and 6 frames have the pocket for the sensor and come with a "dummy" insert. You still need to purchase the actual sensor in order to make it work.

--Rob


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## madone4.5-lover

*best computer for duotrap..*

I recently installed my duotrap sensor on my '10 madone 4.5.. quite the interesting setup.. I browsed through all of the available computers that would work with it and i eventually decided on the Bontrager node 1.. it has so much versatility that it is worth the 75 dollars.. I ordered one through my LBS and it took about 1 week to arrive with the duotrap module.. Don't forget to ask for the good customer discount.. Most shops if your friendly with them will give you 10-15% off.. Especially if you bought your bike there.


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## markieta

We have large stock of Duo Trap and Bontrager computers coming in, in our spring booking order for the shop. Plan on seeing a lot more of this in your LBS in 2010 =D


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## Adam Grainger

*DuoTrap & Suunto t6c*

Sorry if this question has already been asked . . . but before I go out and buy my Trek Madone 4.5, is the Duotrap compatible with the Suunto t6c watch and cycle accessories I have?


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## eisidor

I don't know for sure, but probably not. The Suunto uses the ANT protocol, and the duotrap uses ANT+. I'm sure sure how interoperable they are. What you probably can do is take your watch into the bike shop where you are planning on buying your bike, and test to see if the watch can pair with the sensor before you buy it. My educated guess is that it won't work, but again, that's just a guess.


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## MarvinK

I doubt it too.

I as sure hoping a replacement computer resolves the extremely annoying battery problems I'm experiencing.


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## oclvframe

Orph said:


> I tell ya', I wish I could find a computer that would display current speed (largest characters), average speed and distance traveled, simultaneously.
> 
> It's a real pain to have to keep switching between screens to see all the data that you should be able to see on one screen. I've heard tale of a computer that you can custom program to show you what you want, in the order you want it, on the screen. Has anyone ever heard of such?



It's called a Garmin Edge 500....you can configure 3 different screens to tell you anywhere from 3-8 different configurable sets of info...simultaneously.

-r


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## agustinarg

I has just got the node 2. I pair and the HR is Ok. But the cadence and speed not. The Bike is a madone 6.9. I didn't buy the duotrap it is in allready. But in some
Pics i saw in the inside part, where is the speed sensor is like a small black part that mine dosent got it.
Should I buy a duotrap sensor? Im sure that the bike got it. 
And also another thing I didn't got the bontragrer iman for cadence in the package. Which can I put? Garmin one?


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## MarvinK

You didn't get the DuoTrap sensor, the place holder does look like it though. When you get the sensor, it will include the cadence sensor and band. You should definitely get the DuoTrap, since your frame supports it.


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## agustinarg

MarvinK said:


> You didn't get the DuoTrap sensor, the place holder does look like it though. When you get the sensor, it will include the cadence sensor and band. You should definitely get the DuoTrap, since your frame supports it.


Thank you very much MarvinK, for your reply, I will have to wait so, to use it, because im from Argentina, and im traveling again to EE.UU on febrery. Here the custom is really bad to make the order.:thumbsup:


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## MarvinK

If you wanted to PayPal me, I'd order it and mail it to you... unless you're not in a big hurry. Just msg me if you're interested.


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## agustinarg

MarvinK said:


> If you wanted to PayPal me, I'd order it and mail it to you... unless you're not in a big hurry. Just msg me if you're interested.


MarvinK, Thank you very much. Perhaps some friend Travel in diciembre so i Will wait and i Don't bother you. Altough thank you ver much. 

Do anyone took photos to how to put the duotrap on a madone? So I can see or better.


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## johntrek5

I have a Garmin Edge 500 and was using the Garmin cadence sensor on my 2009 4.5. I recently upgraded to a 2011 5.2 and bought the Duotrap. It works perfectly with my Garmin, and looks so much cooler than the Garmin sensor. It is also very easy to install. Takes about 1 min. Just pops in, and is held in place with a set screw/hex. You also just have to synch it to the Garmin which is very easy.
I would also recommend the Garmin edge 500 to everyone. If you are into tons of ride data, and then you can download it all onto graph format, and spreadsheets for keeping track of your rides, and ride comparisons it is the way to go. For what you pay for the Node, and the sensors, you still do not get all the bells and whistles of the Garmin, and it is not "that" much more IMO.
Good riding all! Any way the duotrap is very cool. Get it no mater what computer you have.


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## MarvinK

I definitely recommend the 500 if you want ride data on your computer, too... otherwise if you just want data on your bike, the Bontrager Node is cheap and works well.


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