# Soma Dead, pictures later today.



## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

On my morning commute, running lights, not waving, etc... I noticed that my bike was handling weird like I had a tire going down or had broken a spoke on the rear. I stopped, gave the tires a sqeeze, spun the wheels, wheels true, no flat, and then I tried to move the rear wheel side to side to see if I had broken an axle and it moved about an inch. Then I found it, the frame had snapped on the drive side chainstay where it meets the dropout. The frame has a five year warranty and this seems like a prime candidate, but having a welding shop downstairs is mighty tempting. I guess that I will commute on the 29r for a while and give soma a chance to make good. 

PS one of the guys from work picked me up in his 4X4 Harley Davidson special edition diesel powered Ford pickup. The four door model. Very nice, kind of the exact opposite of me on my bike.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

*Your own fault.*

Likely wouldn't have happened it you had obeyed all the applicable traffic laws AND waved at all your fellow cyclists.

BTW could be time for that custom Waterford with the SS lugs and etc.

Just saying......


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

MB1 said:


> Likely wouldn't have happened it you had obeyed all the applicable traffic laws AND waved at all your fellow cyclists.
> 
> BTW could be time for that custom Waterford with the SS lugs and etc.
> 
> Just saying......


The weekend was bad as well. I did a crit yesterday at Waldron Park and heard a popping noise when I hit ripple in the pavement. I expected to have a tire going down and was already looking for a way out of the pack since we were lining up for a turn. I went through the turn and I did a little shimmy on the front end coming out and the bike responded normally. After the race I noticed that there were numerous cracks in the clearcoat on my fork. The pegoretti may be getting an Easton to replace the Mizuno. I don't know if you have ever ridden that course, but there is no good line through any of the four turns. You have a choice of low line with broken pavement, middle line with manholes, or high line with potholes. The middle line was the fastest until it started raining. Eduardo won and Ray B was third I think.


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

bigbill said:


> On my morning commute, running lights, not waving, etc... I noticed that my bike was handling weird like I had a tire going down or had broken a spoke on the rear. I stopped, gave the tires a sqeeze, spun the wheels, wheels true, no flat, and then I tried to move the rear wheel side to side to see if I had broken an axle and it moved about an inch. Then I found it, the frame had snapped on the drive side chainstay where it meets the dropout. The frame has a five year warranty and this seems like a prime candidate, but having a welding shop downstairs is mighty tempting. I guess that I will commute on the 29r for a while and give soma a chance to make good.
> 
> PS one of the guys from work picked me up in his 4X4 Harley Davidson special edition diesel powered Ford pickup. The four door model. Very nice, kind of the exact opposite of me on my bike.


Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Let us know how Soma handles the sitch.

- FBB


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## Chris H (Jul 7, 2005)

Sorry to hear that.

p.s. It wouldn't hurt to wave every now and then. Especially running all those lights and running cars off the road. Waving with only your middle finger doesn't count either! I tried it, trust me it's no good. The whole "you're #1 in my book" excuse doesn't fly BTW...

I'd spend more time lecturing you on this, but I gotta leave right now. I have to be at work in about 12 hours and it sometimes takes a couple of hours for that traffic light by my house to change. Usually I have to wait for a car to pull up behind me so they can trigger the sensor, I'd run it... but that's illegal. Hard to always take the high road, but one of us here has to do it!


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## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

Chris H said:


> Waving with only your middle finger doesn't count either! I tried it, trust me it's no good.


That's odd. Every time I wave with my middle finger I get a similar wave in return. Sometimes it works so well that the other person waves back with both hands!


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## Chris H (Jul 7, 2005)

You must live in one of the "friendlier" states!


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

Big Bill: Breaking a frame is what sometimes happens when you're a big ring vortex of evil. Congrats. I'm envious.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

*Here are the pictures*

Here is the broken chainstay. Looking into the break I can see some surface rust so apparantly it cracked sometime earlier and just finished off this morning. The break is clean, a little plastic deformation but otherwise a clean fracture. I am impressed with the condition of the bb shell. The frame is steel and I ride in all kinds of weather. I also included a shot of plan B. It should warranty, but just in case, I am looking at a IF club racer.


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## Chris H (Jul 7, 2005)

Couple of things. Wow, that sucks... Seeing the break really puts it into perspective. Hate to see you have to move to plan B (that thing looks unnatural). What a bad place for a break.

Second thing... I'm jealous as Hell that you're probably gonna end up with an IF Club Racer before me. Just tell me you're not gonna get it in Candy Absinthe. Although I guess in the big scheme of things it won't change anything. It's not like I'm gonna look to my left one day and see you riding next to me here in Fort Worth. Unless the JRB starts adding sub pens at the base right? I don't think the Trinity River is that deep.


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## Henry Chinaski (Feb 3, 2004)

You can fix that with duct tape. Actually, that break might require some bailing wire, too.


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## JP (Feb 8, 2005)

Henry Chinaski said:


> You can fix that with duct tape. Actually, that break might require some bailing wire, too.


I'd say add a big zip tie too for the latest in laminated construction. Hey, sorry to hear about that. I'd say a Rivendell Atlantis could make that feel better. Just sayin'


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

Chris H said:


> Although I guess in the big scheme of things it won't change anything. It's not like I'm gonna look to my left one day and see you riding next to me here in Fort Worth. Unless the JRB starts adding sub pens at the base right? I don't think the Trinity River is that deep.


Don't bet on it, my hometown is Lancaster and my sister lives in Southlake. She rides an ivory Medici with a splatter paint finish.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

*Warranty for sure.*

The rust in there is a sure sign of an incomplete weld/bad dropout. I'd be shocked if you get anything less than a new frame.

FWIW the guys in your weld shop could do a fine job of repairing that and it would be good forever (just be sure to install a hub in the dropouts while they are welding to keep everything in alignment) however it would void any other warranties the frame has.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

MB1 said:


> The rust in there is a sure sign of an incomplete weld/bad dropout. I'd be shocked if you get anything less than a new frame.
> 
> FWIW the guys in your weld shop could do a fine job of repairing that and it would be good forever (just be sure to install a hub in the dropouts while they are welding to keep everything in alignment) however it would void any other warranties the frame has.


The LBS has the frame and has already sent a fax detailing the break. I would expect a new frame by next week. I also emailed IF to see if they could build me a Club Racer to match the geometry of my Pegoretti. Not a stainless steel dropout fixie, but it will do.


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## Chris H (Jul 7, 2005)

Hrmmm, then I guess the potential is there. Let me know what colors you go with then. I'd hate to show up to the same event as you with the same color Club Racer. I can see it now. 

"Hey, look that fat guy has a bike just like the fast guy up in the front!"

And for clarification, I promise I wouldn't be the guy in the front...


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## Mark McM (Jun 18, 2005)

*Crack propogation and fatigue*



MB1 said:


> The rust in there is a sure sign of an incomplete weld/bad dropout.


No, that's almost definitely not what the rust means. Rust just means that the steel was exposed to the atmosphere for some amount of time before final failure. Were the weld incomplete, the void would still have been covered with paint, and wouldn't rust.




bigbill said:


> Here is the broken chainstay. Looking into the break I can see some surface rust so apparantly it cracked sometime earlier and just finished off this morning. The break is clean, a little plastic deformation but otherwise a clean fracture.


That's a classic describe of metal fatigue. Metal fatigue starts as a small crack, and grows slowly over time, until the part's strength has been compromised enough that it will complete break with one final large load cycle. During the initial slow propogation, the edges of the crack are exposed to the atmosphere, and can oxidize (rust). There is little or no plastic deformation around the crack as it grows, so it can be easy to miss. It is only during the final rupture that plastic deformation occurs.

That doesn't mean that the weld (or is it a braze?) was not faulty, however. If there occlusions in the weld, or if too much heat was used, or if the dropout were misaligned, it could have caused a weak point or a stress concentration feature where the fatigue crack could have been initiated. After initiation, the crack would have grown over time, with little indication (no changes in shape, alignment or increased flex) until just before final rupture. It should still be a warrantee issue.


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## Guest (Aug 8, 2006)

Hope you get a new frame out of it.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

Mark McM said:


> No, that's almost definitely not what the rust means. Rust just means that the steel was exposed to the atmosphere for some amount of time before final failure. Were the weld incomplete, the void would still have been covered with paint, and wouldn't rust.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The casting snapped about an 1/8" from the weld. Classic material failure. I may be currently working on a Liberal Arts degree, but I am a nuclear engineer so I can throw around terms like brittle fracture, ductile, hardness, annealing, etc. I just don't want to do nuclear stuff when I retire from the navy. I would rather teach history and have my weekends and summers free to ride.


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

bigbill said:


> The casting snapped about an 1/8" from the weld. Classic material failure.


I could be wrong, but that looks like a brazed-in dropout, yes? I'd bet you a nickel it got too hot while it was being brzaed (as Mr. McM suggests), although I did have a drop snap on me in a similar manner once when I was trying (incompetently - before I built frames) to align it.

Repetitively Yours,

FBB


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

fbagatelleblack said:


> I could be wrong, but that looks like a brazed-in dropout, yes? I'd bet you a nickel it got too hot while it was being brzaed (as Mr. McM suggests), although I did have a drop snap on me in a similar manner once when I was trying (incompetently - before I built frames) to align it.
> 
> Repetitively Yours,
> 
> FBB


It does look like an insert that would braze into the chainstay, but the backside has a weld bead and the front side looks seamless with the chainstay. It didn't break at the weld but the heating theory is sound. Makes me want an IF even more.


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## The Walrus (Apr 2, 2000)

Ouch! Now I don't feel so bad about selling my Double Cross...


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## lanpope (Nov 16, 2002)

Kind of OT, but I love my Club Racer. This pic was taken right after I got it. It's got about 8K on it now and I've made a few changes but by in large it is the same.

I sometimes think of building up a "go fast" road bike, but I'm not sure I'd ever ride it.

Hope the Soma thing turns out OK.

LP


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

lanpope said:


> Kind of OT, but I love my Club Racer. This pic was taken right after I got it. It's got about 8K on it now and I've made a few changes but by in large it is the same.
> 
> I sometimes think of building up a "go fast" road bike, but I'm not sure I'd ever ride it.
> 
> ...


Do you think that you could put 32mm tires on it with fenders? My LBS hasn't heard back yet from Soma, but I expect them to make good. The time zone differences play havoc on doing any business with the mainland. I have to work something out with IF if I want to purchase one since there are no dealers in Hawaii.


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## lanpope (Nov 16, 2002)

bigbill said:


> Do you think that you could put 32mm tires on it with fenders? My LBS hasn't heard back yet from Soma, but I expect them to make good. The time zone differences play havoc on doing any business with the mainland. I have to work something out with IF if I want to purchase one since there are no dealers in Hawaii.


Definitely not.

I have 25c tires on there now and I think a 28c is as big as you could go.

Heck, I have a Planet X too and I do not think you could get a 32c with fenders on that bike, not that it was designed for fenders.

What size was your Soma? Do you have any complete pics? 

I actually wouldn't mind having an ES. It looks like a smartly designed frame. The HT on my stock Club Racer is a little short, which is fine up to about 100miles, but over that, I would like to have a little more upright position. (I have switched to a different stem with a little rise since the pic but I still would like a little more HT)

Thanks,

LP


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## wooglin (Feb 22, 2002)

lanpope said:


> I actually wouldn't mind having an ES. It looks like a smartly designed frame.


No more new frames for you this year. You've surpassed your quota. Deal with it.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

*Help me understand the forum.*

I have done dozens of posts that included pretty pictures from my home in Hawaii. I post pictures of mountains, statues, beaches, and a fish that I hit one morning. Each of these posts average around 200 views before they sink into the abyss. I break my frame and it gets 650+ views. You people probably watch nascar for the crashes.


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## etowns (Sep 12, 2005)

nice ride. where did you get the vanilla shake bar tape?


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

bigbill said:


> I have done dozens of posts that included pretty pictures from my home in Hawaii. I post pictures of mountains, statues, beaches, and a fish that I hit one morning. Each of these posts average around 200 views before they sink into the abyss. I break my frame and it gets 650+ views. You people probably watch nascar for the crashes.


Carnage, baybee, carnage!!!

But seriously. I think the key here is that this is a bicycling forum, not a Hawaii/mountains/beaches/smacked-down-fish forum. Your post on the busted drop out is very relevant to our interests as bicycle riders. Many of us have experienced similar situations, or we fear that we will experience similar situations in the future. So, your experiences and advice are/will be valuable learning tools for us.

But keep posting all that other stuff. Pretty pictures from bike rides are always cool.

Yers,

FBB


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## The Walrus (Apr 2, 2000)

Try posting some of the pictures of hookers/wahines we keep asking for and see the response you get....


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

The Walrus said:


> Try posting some of the pictures of hookers/wahines we keep asking for and see the response you get....


That's what I'M talkin' about!!

- FBB


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## lanpope (Nov 16, 2002)

wooglin said:


> No more new frames for you this year. You've surpassed your quota. Deal with it.


Hey - Have you been talking to my wife? 

I could sell the....and the move the wheels from the....take the brakes off the...

Gotta love bikes.

LP


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## lanpope (Nov 16, 2002)

etowns said:


> nice ride. where did you get the vanilla shake bar tape?


You talking to me? If so, it's just Cinelli natural tape. It's kind of a different color now after 2 years of use. I think I actually like it better.

LP


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## omniviper (Sep 18, 2004)

fbagatelleblack said:


> That's what I'M talkin' about!!
> 
> - FBB



thats an awesome bottom "bracket" wonder how the cranks would feel when its inside


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## bigrider (Jun 27, 2002)

BigBill, 

If your Soma crapped out on you mine doesn't have a chance hauling me around. I was out of town and just saw your avatar. Let us all know how it turns out.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

bigrider said:


> BigBill,
> 
> If your Soma crapped out on you mine doesn't have a chance hauling me around. I was out of town and just saw your avatar. Let us all know how it turns out.



Soma will send me a new frame, they just wanted to see my old one first. In my opinion it was a manufacturer defect and not a question of durability. I will build up the new one but I still have my eye on a Independant Fab cyclocross frame. Hot Lime Green with flames. Should look good with fenders and a rack.


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## fbagatelleblack (Mar 31, 2005)

bigrider said:


> BigBill,
> 
> If your Soma crapped out on you mine doesn't have a chance hauling me around. I was out of town and just saw your avatar. Let us all know how it turns out.


There is a good chance that Bill's problem was an isolated incident of overheating or something like that. I'll bet a nickel that your Soma will be fine!

- FBB


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## jakerson (Jun 15, 2004)

Ive been keeping an eye on this, and also i've looked at every spot on my Soma that could possibly end up like that spot on yours. I hope that yours is indeed an *"isolated incident"* (as FBB puts it).

Nice to hear about Soma stepping up to replace it. 

Oh yeah - here's a pic of my Smoothie ES...


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

Now I am p!ssed. I contacted Soma and they are exercising their option to repair my frame. I may get it back in a month. I could have had the guys downstairs repair my frame for a box of manapua and a dozen donuts and ridden it home that day.


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## mynamesrob (Jul 13, 2006)

That sucks big time man.

Since they're choosing to repair it, won't that make it a weak spot on the frame?


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## StageHand (Dec 27, 2002)

mynamesrob said:


> That sucks big time man.
> 
> Since they're choosing to repair it, won't that make it a weak spot on the frame?


Depends how the dropouts were attached. If they were brazed, then it'll be fine. If they were welded, I'd have a lot of questions.


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## Zampano (Aug 7, 2005)

bigbill said:


> I contacted Soma and they are exercising their option to repair my frame.


Note to self: exercise option to *not* buy a Soma.


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## jakerson (Jun 15, 2004)

Zampano said:


> Note to self: exercise option to *not* buy a Soma.


Unfortunately, I don't have that option... 

Now I'm sitting around trying to figure out if I need to get my frame x-rayed or something to see if there are hidden cracks anywhere. I never would have thought of that before... 

It REALLY bugs me that Soma is taking the easy way out, the cheap way out... Bad move on their part. 

Maybe it is time to look for a new frame to hang my components on. *sigh* I really liked that Soma too...


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## bigrider (Jun 27, 2002)

bigbill said:


> Now I am p!ssed. I contacted Soma and they are exercising their option to repair my frame. I may get it back in a month. I could have had the guys downstairs repair my frame for a box of manapua and a dozen donuts and ridden it home that day.



Maybe you will at least get fresh paint on the whole bike. That would make it not totally suck, just partially suck.


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## Geet (Sep 17, 2004)

bigbill said:


> Now I am p!ssed. I contacted Soma and they are exercising their option to repair my frame. I may get it back in a month. I could have had the guys downstairs repair my frame for a box of manapua and a dozen donuts and ridden it home that day.


I would sell the Soma and get a new frame.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

Geet said:


> I would sell the Soma and get a new frame.



I ordered a Gunnar Crosshairs frame and fork today. I don't even know what color it will be, the size is right, everything else is secondary. I hope it's fuscia. I plan on using the Soma for a trainer frame once I move back to the mainland and experience different seasons of the year.


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## jakerson (Jun 15, 2004)

Sounds great, hope that Gunnar works for you. 
I'm curious - why did you pick the crosshairs instead of the Roadie?


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

jakerson said:


> Sounds great, hope that Gunnar works for you.
> I'm curious - why did you pick the crosshairs instead of the Roadie?



Thinking ahead to my next assignment. I will transfer from Hawaii to Italy next spring and will spend about 5 months in the Med area before leaving for Bremerton, WA. The cross bike will allow for a larger tire with fenders and a rack. The utility is for tooling around Greece, Slovenia, and Croatia where the pavement is a little sketchy. The larger tire size is for winter commuting in Washington State where the shoulders of the road collect large amounts of sand and debris. Hitting a patch of sand or gravel while riding on 25mm tires will put the fear of god into you. That and I used to race cross in the winter and might get back into it.


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