# Sexy...



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

Man! Bikes are getting so sexy now! 

I'm loving the new '10 Treks (and the '09 Madone 5.2 Pro), but the Orbea Orca is oozing hotness and Look's TT is gorgeous.

























































What bike(s) is(are) looking good to you for 2010 or in recent years?


----------



## frmrench (Apr 10, 2009)

I dig the stealth bad ass look of the all black....Pinarello is it?!!


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

frmrench said:


> I dig the stealth bad ass look of the all black....Pinarello is it?!!


I designed a Project One Trek Madone 6.9 in an all black look 
from the cable housing to the lettering (black on black). 
The only things colored on it were the Bonty wheels.
I'm thinking about blacking out my current ride.

Pinarello Dogma.  Yeah! Love that Batman look to it. GeeYottDang! $8500. beans! 
(Also looks hot in Champagne!...)


----------



## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

I think it's pretty funny how there are lots of recreational riders who want Pro level bikes.


----------



## estone2 (Sep 25, 2005)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> I think it's pretty funny how there are lots of recreational riders who want Pro level bikes.


Grumps, you ride DA!


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> I think it's pretty funny how there are lots of recreational riders who want Pro level bikes.


----------



## MCF (Oct 12, 2006)

Are Treks good bikes?


----------



## livin4lax09 (Mar 15, 2008)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> I think it's pretty funny how there are lots of recreational riders who want Pro level bikes.


why is it funny? Wouldn't anyone prefer the very best of whatever they have, if money were no issue?


----------



## El Caballito (Oct 31, 2004)

sweet... do you ride it or hang it on the wall?


----------



## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Wouldn't anyone prefer the very best of whatever they have, if money were no issue

That's the problem. People don't want to pay their dues.....They just want.


----------



## orangeclymer (Aug 18, 2009)

livin4lax09 said:


> why is it funny? Wouldn't anyone prefer the very best of whatever they have or want if money were no issue?




EXACTLY!! its no diff for autos, motorcycles, planes, horses, homes, boats when people purchase what moves them so why not bicycles? :thumbsup:


----------



## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

estone2 said:


> Grumps, you ride DA!



Yeah, but I rode a lot of third rate crap over the last 26 years............


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

MCF said:


> Are Treks good bikes?


Yes. :yesnod:

(Lance rides one.







)


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

livin4lax09 said:


> why is it funny? Wouldn't anyone prefer the very best of whatever they have, if money were no issue?


Exactly.

I used to dream of riding a $1,000. bike. 

I used to dream of having a business.

I used to dream about a lot of things I now enjoy.

“_I prefer to be a dreamer among the humblest, with visions to be realized, 
than lord among those without dreams and desires_.”
*Kahlil Gibran*
:thumbsup:


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

orangeclymer said:


> EXACTLY!! its no diff for autos, motorcycles, planes, horses, homes, boats when people purchase what moves them so why not bicycles? :thumbsup:


----------



## orangeclymer (Aug 18, 2009)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> That's the problem. People don't want to pay their dues.....They just want.


You make a highly broad assumption of who and whom has paid their respective dues and who has not.


----------



## mavicwheels (Oct 3, 2007)

*To Grumpyman*

While I may be just a recreational rider, and my skills probably about average at that, I do enjoy what I ride. I enjoy knowing the mystic and feeling like I am "one" with the group of riders who share our passion every single day.
If I choose to work extra for what I want. Pay my taxes, live my life within moral and ethical bounds set up by my creator, say my prayers and eat my vegatables, why not enjoy something I worked hard for? I don't find it to be a sin to enjoy life. Life is hard enough without the limitations placed on us by others. There are no "dues" to be paid to enjoy something (like riding a nice bicycle, or owning a nice home or whatever your desire is. The only honorarium that comes to be paid is the hard work it takes to earn (money wise) what your desire.:thumbsup:


----------



## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

orangeclymer said:


> You make a highly broad assumption of who and whom has paid their respective dues and who has not.



Yes, "highly broad"......but not overly broad.

Every time I'm out I see riders on the equivalent of Formula 1 cars. (with their US Postal, or their Yellow jerseys)

Just last Sunday, I was working a corner of a road race that my club put on (after I raced)
I and another racer were laughing at Cat 5 racers who were riding $5000 bikes, who had been shelled off the back, and were behind riders on $800 bikes. (of course we waited until they passed, before we laughed)


----------



## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

"I enjoy knowing the mystic and feeling like I am "one" with the group of riders who share our passion every single day."

Ain't nothing "mystical" about bike ridin'. The only thing "mystical" about bike ridin', is when you're hurting so bad, you begin to see dead relatives.

A bike is just a tool. Same as a hammer. Sure, you want a hammer that is balanced well, and a shaft that won't break, but do you really want a $300 hammer?


----------



## vette (Feb 1, 2009)

Im sure there are racers out there with cheaper bikes than yours that can drop you easily as well,whats this dues crap,gotta be the stupidest thing I read here ,theres always faster guns out there ,so dont worry about what some1 spends on there bike


----------



## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

Aesthetically, I'm not liking the curved TT's on these. Much prefer the diamond shapes, sharp, straight...with queues from a past era. I can accept the much larger tube diameters though.


----------



## st3v3 (Jul 25, 2009)

I wish I could get over how old and lame the "Are Treks good bikes?" thing is. But I really, really can't. Also, there's nothing wrong with wanting something you don't have. No ones whining that they don't have one. You're on a bike forum... people are probably gonna want bikes.


----------



## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

2ndGen said:


> Yes [Treks are good bikes]. :yesnod:
> 
> (Lance rides one.
> 
> ...


Are Lances good riders?
.


----------



## Swish (Jul 31, 2004)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Yes, "highly broad"......but not overly broad.
> 
> Every time I'm out I see riders on the equivalent of Formula 1 cars. (with their US Postal, or their Yellow jerseys)
> 
> ...



Cmon, some folks spend their money on their garden, some on their house, some on their bikes, some on their other hobbies..you know the drill. If life was purely about functionality it would be be rather daft. Let people indulge, if it makes them happy.


----------



## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

The bent tube look will look silly in five years---- completely dated. It is like neon for the 2010s....


----------



## seeborough (Feb 3, 2004)

filtersweep said:


> The bent tube look will look silly in five years---- completely dated. It is like neon for the 2010s....


Looks like everyone had the same designer coming up with the same weird looking ideas at the same time. 

I'll sit this one out.


----------



## Swish (Jul 31, 2004)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> "I enjoy knowing the mystic and feeling like I am "one" with the group of riders who share our passion every single day."
> 
> Ain't nothing "mystical" about bike ridin'. The only thing "mystical" about bike ridin', is when you're hurting so bad, you begin to see dead relatives.
> 
> A bike is just a tool. Same as a hammer. Sure, you want a hammer that is balanced well, and a shaft that won't break, but do you really want a $300 hammer?


Out of curiosity, in what do you indulge? Good food? Wine? Music?


----------



## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Yeah, but I rode a lot of third rate crap over the last 26 years............


Time to move on then,,, No need to stay resentful for all those years of deprived bike lust


----------



## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

filtersweep said:


> The bent tube look will look silly in five years---- completely dated. It is like neon for the 2010s....


And you think white road shoes aren't a trend? 

Come on now. As a mountain biker, I have to come clean... we (mountain bikers) do poke fun at roadies for constantly chasing the next cool thing from the latest Bicycling mag', VeloNews, Interbike, etc. So by the time that swoopy curved frame trend has passed, most of the guys on this board will have sold that old 2011 and be on their new 2013... and drooling over the 2014 

^All in good fun^
(I just bought a Scott Addict SL, all black, white graphics, white bar tape... wait... it's happening to me isn't? Damn it!)


----------



## EMB145 Driver (Aug 17, 2006)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> The only thing "mystical" about bike ridin', is when you're hurting so bad, you begin to see dead relatives.


Is it bad if it's your hot cousin, and she isn't dead?


----------



## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Out of curiosity, in what do you indulge? Good food? Wine? Music?

I try to stay away from food ordered from a menu that is read off the wall.
I only indulge myself with the finest boxed wine.
Many people think my taste in music is strange.


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> "I enjoy knowing the mystic and feeling like I am "one" with the group of riders who share our passion every single day."
> 
> Ain't nothing "mystical" about bike ridin'. The only thing "mystical" about bike ridin', is when you're hurting so bad, you begin to see dead relatives.
> 
> A bike is just a tool. Same as a hammer. Sure, you want a hammer that is balanced well, and a shaft that won't break, but do you really want a $300 hammer?


Speaking as someone who actually uses hammers to make a living...yes. 

The benefits to using a Titanium hammer far outweigh the initial cost. 
Why use a steel hammer and cause inevitable damage to your arms (i.e. Carpenter's Elbow) if for triple the price of a good quality steel hammer, you can have the best?

If one's elbow worth $60. more? I'd say HELL YES! Especially since it's my elbow. 

There are old Roofer's who offer up the same argument, that Ti isn't worth "it".
But those are usually the guys who have to wear braces around their forearms because of the damage done to their elbows by swinging a steel hammer for 30 years. 

Maybe it's too late for them. But, if the technology exists for me to do more with less and to save my elbow while I'm at it and I can afford it, then again HELL YES I'm going to get that uber expensive Ti hammer (actually, I have purchased 3 of them, gave one to a valued employee of mine for his birthday). 

Is Lance Armstrong faster than most on a 30 year old steel bike? Of course.

Is Lance Armstrong riding a new Carbon bike faster than Lance Armstrong riding a 30 year old steel bike? Of course. 

Give me a Titanium hammer over a steel hammer any day. 

Matter of fact, a true "craftsman" will get the best tools he can afford because he knows that quality tools contribute to quality production far more than cheaper tools. 

Why even bother with a hammer? 
Why not use a rock to pound in nails?
It's way cheaper (if not free).

I'm a firm believer in working your way up. 
It's not wise to go out and buy a $5K bike until you know what you actually want. 
At the same time, can't knock a man for having $5K to use on an entry level bike. 
Me, I prefer using a $1K bike to ease into the sport, then build my way up.
Which is what I've done...now however, I'm ready to upgrade and do more on a better bike. 
I just don't let time or ego tell me when to upgrade, but skill level.


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

Kuma601 said:


> Aesthetically, I'm not liking the curved TT's on these. Much prefer the diamond shapes, sharp, straight...with queues from a past era. I can accept the much larger tube diameters though.


Funny, I'm like that with MTB's. 
For MTB's I prefer straight tube designs. 
And while I don't like (yet) the radical curved designs, 
I like the evolution I'm seeing. 

Trek has a new TT that is super straight and boxy.


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

SystemShock said:


> Are Lances good riders?
> .


No, Lances are medeieval weapons used to dismount your opponent in jousts. 

:lol:


----------



## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

I love looking at the new bikes and lusting after them. I could easily justify a $5,000 bike if I could afford it. I ride somewhere around 4-5,000 miles each season. My last road bike was right around $3,000 over 10 years ago. I think in that time I've gotten a good return from my investment. Some people want the best golf clubs, some waste too much money on motorcycles or boats, I myself want a great bicycle. It shouldn't matter if I race or not.
Heck, I know plenty of people with a $500 car but they have a new Harley. To each his own I guess.


----------



## Zipp0 (Aug 19, 2008)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Just last Sunday, I was working a corner of a road race that my club put on (after I raced)
> I and another racer were laughing at Cat 5 racers who were riding $5000 bikes, who had been shelled off the back, and were behind riders on $800 bikes. (of course we waited until they passed, before we laughed)


This is why I ride my older steel bike. When I get shelled out the back in a Cat 5 race people can say "Look at the POS bike....no wonder he can't keep up."


----------



## bmxhacksaw (Mar 26, 2008)

You're too grumpy Mr. Grumpy.


----------



## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> I think it's pretty funny how there are lots of recreational riders who want Pro level bikes.




if you can't ride fast you might as well look like you can


----------



## ph0enix (Aug 12, 2009)

My 2010 Six is HOT! ...but I love the look of the new Pinarello frames - the Prince and the Dogma 60.1.


----------



## chuckice (Aug 25, 2004)

Ride whatever you like and hopefully what you can afford.

Back on track...I don't like any of those bikes. *shrug*


----------



## 2shifter (Jul 15, 2004)

*Hovercraft*

the Pinarello appears to be doing a levitating act. Maybe that's what makes it so sexy- is the frame filled with helium?


----------



## EastCoast (Apr 15, 2007)

2ndGen said:


> Speaking as someone who actually uses hammers to make a living...yes.


You're right! Just like these bikes are totally worth it for someone who uses them to make a living.


----------



## bike_guy (Mar 26, 2002)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Sure, you want a hammer that is balanced well, and a shaft that won't break, but do you really want a $300 hammer?


I thought those were only available to the government???


----------



## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

bike_guy said:


> I thought those were only available to the government???


Nope...those are the $600 ones up-charged by the middleman.


----------



## skeedunt (Sep 10, 2008)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Just last Sunday, I was working a corner of a road race that my club put on (after I raced)
> I and another racer were laughing at Cat 5 racers who were riding $5000 bikes, who had been shelled off the back, and were behind riders on $800 bikes. (of course we waited until they passed, before we laughed)


You know if all these people were not buying the expensive bikes, then your $5,000 bike would cost you $25,000. So you should be applauding the people spending the money and supporting the bike companies, not laughing at them.


----------



## orangeclymer (Aug 18, 2009)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Yes, "highly broad"......but not overly broad.


Oh by all means overly, in fact to the extent not a peep should have been uttered with respect to others spending habits.


----------



## billspreston (Jun 30, 2009)

I'm not a very good rider, I don't race, but I do put on a lot of miles and I like to be comfortable during those miles with equipment that performs well. Having nicer tools makes the job more enjoyable. Roadies are always making fun of someone. Equipment is too poor. Equipment is too good. Dude is wearing the wrong color. I've participated in a lot of sports over the years and never seen anything quite like it.


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

EastCoast said:


> You're right! Just like these bikes are totally worth it for someone who uses them to make a living.


I use and prefer my Ti hammer over steel hammers to do occasional work around the house 
(no need in suffering just because I'm not getting paid to use it)! 

I use my steel hammers for demo/dirty work that won't take long 
(ala' how I have my beater bike to go to the store with). 


I'd say a Titanium hammer is totally worth is for a "do it yourselfer" 
(or, how one of these bikes are worth it for recreational riders who could afford and appreciate them).


----------



## nacho (Apr 3, 2007)

*Loving it*

Screw the rigs... Diamond calves are hot.
Threads like this will make my five weeks in a cast fly by!
Thanks Grumps et al.


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

bike_guy said:


> I thought those were only available to the government???


Ti hammers are topping out at just over $280. 
Hickory handed framers are going for under $100. 










I have a companion Nail Puller (Cat's Paw). 
While a good steel cat's paw costs well under $20., 
I picked up mine for $80. 
It only weighs 8oz.










Between the hammer and the cat's paw, I dropped almost 2 lbs. off my tool belt.
Very noticeable from the moment I put it on until the end of the day.


You could say that I buy the *Dura Ace* of tools.


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

billspreston said:


> I'm not a very good rider, I don't race, but I do put on a lot of miles and I like to be comfortable during those miles with equipment that performs well. Having nicer tools makes the job more enjoyable. Roadies are always making fun of someone. Equipment is too poor. Equipment is too good. Dude is wearing the wrong color. I've participated in a lot of sports over the years and never seen anything quite like it.


1st Post?

Welcome aboard Bill. 

Just one correction on your post...

"*Snobs*" are always making fun of someone."

Other than that, well said. 


:thumbsup:


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

nacho said:


> Screw the rigs... Diamond calves are hot.
> Threads like this will make my five weeks in a cast fly by!
> Thanks Grumps et al.



:lol:


----------



## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

billspreston said:


> I'm not a very good rider, I don't race, but I do put on a lot of miles and I like to be comfortable during those miles with equipment that performs well. Having nicer tools makes the job more enjoyable. Roadies are always making fun of someone. Equipment is too poor. Equipment is too good. Dude is wearing the wrong color. I've participated in a lot of sports over the years and never seen anything quite like it.




first thing to know is roadies are a bunch of arrogant elitist pricks


----------



## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

I unfortunately see guys like Grumpy all the time at races and when I'm on training rides. They look down on riders who are not "racers", who have expensive bikes, or who wear pro team clothing while not a pro. These also tend to be the people that give road racers a bad name.

It's best to just ignore these type of people. They have personal issues and are simply criticizing others to make themselves feel good.

If I had to guess, the common denominator between many racers that get upset with Cat.5's noodling around on $5k bikes is that they themselves can not afford to race on this high-end equipment and there is a resentment there as they know they are a faster rider and therefore should deservedly be able to ride a better bike. Unfortunately the real world doesn't work this way.

Be content with yourself and your ability and you won't have to find relief in being critical of others bikes or clothing or riding habits.


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

nacho said:


> Screw the rigs... Diamond calves are hot.
> Threads like this will make my five weeks in a cast fly by!
> Thanks Grumps et al.


Sorry bro, but I just HAD TO! 













:lol:


----------



## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

The only way to change the attitude is roadies must begin waving and saying "hello" to all who pass.


----------



## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

skeedunt said:


> You know if all these people were not buying the expensive bikes, then your $5,000 bike would cost you $25,000. So you should be applauding the people spending the money and supporting the bike companies, not laughing at them.


That'd be interesting. If high-end bikes cost $25K, the high-end would be much smaller, and cut down to a very few ultra-exclusive builders, probably. Volumes would drop dramatically.

It'd be like Lamborghini, who only makes a couple thousand cars each year. And there'd be very few companies like that around.
.


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Out of curiosity, in what do you indulge? Good food? Wine? Music?
> 
> I try to stay away from food ordered from a menu that is read off the wall.
> I only indulge myself with the finest boxed wine.
> Many people think my taste in music is strange.


Hey! Grumps! 

:thumbsup:


----------



## Flat Out (Aug 9, 2007)

nightfend said:


> I unfortunately see guys like Grumpy all the time at races and when I'm on training rides. They look down on riders who are not "racers", who have expensive bikes, or who wear pro team clothing while not a pro. These also tend to be the people that give road racers a bad name.
> 
> It's best to just ignore these type of people. They have personal issues and are simply criticizing others to make themselves feel good.
> 
> ...


Word. Here endeth the lesson.


----------



## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

F1 champ Michael Schumacher, driving an 80s minivan or Chrysler "K-car" with "simulated wood grain trim" on the doors, could out-drive anyone here on an auto road race ... 

Does that mean we should all drive Chrysler Le Barons, because we'll never be as good as Schumacher?

I say NO ... enjoy life, whether it's a Corvette Z06, or an $8K bike of your choice. 

Life is not a dress rehearsal ... you get one bite of the apple, so to speak.


----------



## kykr13 (Apr 12, 2008)

Swish said:


> Out of curiosity, in what do you indulge? Good food? Wine? Music?


Good _riding_. :thumbsup:


----------



## C130 (Oct 10, 2008)

nightfend said:


> I unfortunately see guys like Grumpy all the time at races and when I'm on training rides. They look down on riders who are not "racers", who have expensive bikes, or who wear pro team clothing while not a pro. These also tend to be the people that give road racers a bad name.
> 
> It's best to just ignore these type of people. They have personal issues and are simply criticizing others to make themselves feel good.
> 
> ...


One of the best posts I have read and oh so true. I recently bought a 2010 SuperSix 1. I don't race and I am not very fast but I really enjoy riding road bikes, used to ride mountain bikes only. I bought it because I liked it, wanted it, could afford it, and it is motivation for me to keep riding and improving. It is no ones business what type of bike I I ride unless they are paying for it and if anyone has an issue with the type of bike one rides then that person has some real serious issues in life. I have a long time good friend who has already made ignorant comments about my bike as though it is any of his business. I just don't get it, some people are just pathetic, that's about the only way to describe these people. Man, life is too short to worry about what bike one rides and just be glad they are out riding. I love my new bike and know it is way nicer than what I "need" but I enjoy it and that is all that matters. It's my hobby, my money, and it's healthy so there are way more important issues in life to worry about.


----------



## wiz525 (Dec 31, 2007)

just ride whatever bike makes you want to ride more!

i always get cracked up at how grumpy can rile people up on these boards!!


----------



## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Yeah, but I rode a lot of third rate crap over the last 26 years............


did that include chick pedals?


----------



## oily666 (Apr 7, 2007)

Not to dis what anyone rides at any level or for any reason, but some of these new bikes are style for the sake of style (or the lack it). IMO a good or great frame is nothing more than optimal size and shaped tubes joined in a way that yields the most performance and possibly the least weight. Yeah, OK, the Madone looks good, but I was in a high end shop yesterday and saw an Orbea, a bike whose design succeeds, IMO, only in drawing attention to itself. You don't see that level of carbon narcissism from Colnago, Look, Cervello or Calfee.


----------



## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

oily666 said:


> Not to dis what anyone rides at any level or for any reason, but some of these new bikes are style for the sake of style (or the lack it). IMO a good or great frame is nothing more than optimal size and shaped tubes joined in a way that yields the most performance and possibly the least weight. ...


Well, that's not much different than a lot of consumer and even industrial products,although of course the basic function has to be achieved.
Consider autos, many cell phones, most Apple products , etc.
They could could still provide their function if they were ugly or unappealing, but the industrial design of a product is a big factor in its perceived value to the purchaser. 

Any kind of paint or color scheme is similarly "style for the sake of style", once the basic function of corrosion or UV protection is achieved.


----------



## oily666 (Apr 7, 2007)

tom_h said:


> Well, that's not much different than a lot of consumer and even industrial products,although of course the basic function has to be achieved.
> Consider autos, many cell phones, most Apple products , etc.
> They could could still provide their function if they were ugly or unappealing, but the industrial design of a product is a big factor in its perceived value to the purchaser.
> 
> Any kind of paint or color scheme is similarly "style for the sake of style", once the basic function of corrosion or UV protection is achieved.


True, basically. But none of the factors or products you mentioned give the pretense or illusion of increasing athletic performance. That's where the real disconnect is between bikes and phones, etc. (no pun intended)

﻿I bet somewhere, someone can probably sell you a left nostril inhaler with your state motto on it. - George Carlin

If someone put the word "CARBON" on a turd, some cyclist would buy it. - Me


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

oily666 said:


> Not to dis what anyone rides at any level or for any reason, but some of these new bikes are style for the sake of style (or the lack it). IMO a good or great frame is nothing more than optimal size and shaped tubes joined in a way that yields the most performance and possibly the least weight. Yeah, OK, the Madone looks good, but I was in a high end shop yesterday and saw an Orbea, a bike whose design succeeds, IMO, only in drawing attention to itself. You don't see that level of carbon narcissism from Colnago, Look, Cervello or Calfee.













*The Madone is the Bestesest Bike in the entire Universe! 

Colnago? Look? Cervello? Calfee?

That's communist propaganda! 

Their not even American(s)!

Chuck Norris rides one!*

:lol:



(sarcasm)



.


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

tom_h said:


> Well, that's not much different than a lot of consumer and even industrial products,although of course the basic function has to be achieved.
> Consider autos, many cell phones, most Apple products , etc.
> They could could still provide their function if they were ugly or unappealing, but the industrial design of a product is a big factor in its perceived value to the purchaser.
> 
> Any kind of paint or color scheme is similarly "style for the sake of style", once the basic function of corrosion or UV protection is achieved.


I'm a "form should follow function" kind of guy...but it's _great _when the two meet.


----------



## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

MCF said:


> Are Treks good bikes?


They're o.k.


----------



## oily666 (Apr 7, 2007)

2ndGen said:


> I'm a "form should follow function" kind of guy...but it's _great _when the two meet.


﻿In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. -- Yogi Berra


----------



## wasserbox (Mar 17, 2002)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> but do you really want a $300 hammer?


No - but I'd sure as heck buy a $300 nail gun.


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

oily666 said:


> ﻿In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. -- Yogi Berra




"I didn't really say everything I said." - _Yogi Berra_

:lol:


----------



## innergel (Jun 14, 2002)

Sexy









Not sexy


----------



## mendo (Apr 18, 2007)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> I think it's pretty funny how there are lots of recreational riders who want Pro level bikes.


What's funny to me isn't so much the cost of the bike, but that "recreational" or "casual" riders are on bikes stiff enough for Pro sprinters or the big TT specialists. You don't need a botttom bracket as big as a brick to ride around at casual pace.


----------



## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

When did road bikes start copying motorhome paint schemes?


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

It all depends "where" you look...


----------



## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Yes, "highly broad"......but not overly broad.
> 
> Every time I'm out I see riders on the equivalent of Formula 1 cars. (with their US Postal, or their Yellow jerseys)
> 
> ...


This is a piss poor attitude. I was one of those guys racing Cat 5 races on a $5,000 Colnago with Zipp 404's. Difference was I never got dropped, got 2nd's, 3rd's, and 4th's in them, and got my upgrade after just 7 races. Having raced up and down the east coast 20 years prior as a junior helped. Still racing the same bike as a Cat 4. Took 4th out of 87 riders in my first Cat 4 race. Got a couple of 3rds and 4ths this year too even though I only put in 1,000 miles. Spent too much time working and being sick this year.

Now, if people's career require them to spend too much time off the bike but they have a ton of money in the bank, who the heck cares if they buy a $10,000 bike to race a Cat 5 race. For all you know, their mortgage is paid, they have a million in the bank, and they are laughing at you because of how poor they think you are. I try to judge people by what is in their heart, not what they are riding, what they are wearing, what they are driving, where they are living, etc.

I've had Lyme disease for the last month plus and just started antibiotics on Thursday. I'm starting to feel better, but haven't been on the bike since mid August. I'm still going to try to do the east coast RBR ride next weekend. I'll probably be slow as can be on my $5,000 Colnago. The people that have never ridden with me might laugh. Of course, those that rode with me 2 years ago and thought I was a Cat 2 will know better.


----------



## labmonkey526 (Aug 9, 2009)

innergel said:


> Sexy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you got that backwards. Or should I be breaking out some parachute pants and high tops with fat laces?  To each his own. Enjoy the ride.


----------



## PRB (Jun 15, 2002)

innergel said:


> Sexy (the Merckx)
> 
> 
> Not sexy (the plastic thing that looks like a bike)


Amen. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: The first, last and only plastic bike that I ever found sexy was a TVT painted in Team Z colors.


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

Sexy!


----------



## onlineflyer (Aug 8, 2005)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Yes, "highly broad"......but not overly broad.
> 
> Every time I'm out I see riders on the equivalent of Formula 1 cars. (with their US Postal, or their Yellow jerseys)
> 
> ...


You're making broad assumptions. How do you know how much the rider paid for his/her bike? I have a 6k list price bike that cost me 2K. Yes, I like to shop, buy used and do my own builds. Call it a hobby that I enjoy. I also get to ride some awfully nice bikes at a fraction of the cost.


----------



## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

I gotta tell you, riding one of those things looks a lot to me like bringing your $3000 powerbook to the local hipster coffee shoppe to "write"... you aren't writing. If you were, you'd be at home, in your office, working. You're just out showing off your fancy toy.

I think that it's kinda weird how conspicuous consumption (as it used to be called) has gone from being totally gauche to being totally expected.

THe thing is, most of us don't _need_ 90% of the crap we buy. I don't need an iphone- I barely even need a phone. But I want one. Will it make me more productive or happier? no. It'll be pretty cool to play with.

Most of us live in cities where we'll be lucky if we get our cars over 50 mph during an average work week. Do we really need 300hp cars? Most of us drive to work all alone in our big @$$ 4 door whatever. A smart car would probably be enough. But those aren't cool, and they dont satisfy our need to show people how important we are. 

We've replaced our pride in quiet things (no debt, decent savings, kids that are doing well) with big showy things to tell the world how cool we are. 

Meh. Flame on.


----------



## onlineflyer (Aug 8, 2005)

Again, you're making broad assumptions. Have another drink, it may clear your thinking.


----------



## GerryR (Sep 3, 2008)

More sex
View attachment 183104


----------



## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

onlineflyer said:


> Again, you're making broad assumptions. Have another drink, it may clear your thinking.


I'll second Buck-50. I prepare a lot of tax returns for people, so I usually know what type of financial situation they are in, what they drive, their phones, etc. The majority of people out there are driving cars they don't need and cars that are killing their long term wealth. I've had clients with $40,000+ in credit card debt that continue to take vacation after vacation. I have seen a client refinance a $400,000 house and take out $100,000 in equity to pay off credit cards. Seen a person declare bankruptcy while still clinging to a BMW X5 and an Infiniti, and telling me that they needed at least $7,000 a month to "live".

The amount of debt people are carrying is utterly nuts. Suggesting to somebody that I'm going to pay cash for our next car makes them pick their mouth up from the floor.

The one thing I will not agree with Buck-50 on is the Smart car. Until EVERYBODY is driving one of them and/or we are only putting a very few miles on our cars every year, I will not risk my or my wife's life in one of those things, and my kids would never, ever be in one even if it was only for a short ride. I've done too many auto accident cases and seen some pretty horrible stuff, to believe that driving one of those in anything but the city is not the equivalent of playing Russian roulette.

Last but not least, I don't begrudge anybody that can afford a nice bike, even a Cat 5 rider or a weekend rider. If they have the money, then the deserve it. Me, I'm a Cat 4 rider with 5 Colnagos and a Bianchi FG Lite all decked out with Campy Record 10 speed and Zipp wheels. In the grand scheme of USCF racing, does it really matter what you ride, or how fast you are. I have the top 10 finishes to upgrade to a Cat 3, which is what I was when I stopped renewing my license in law school. That is based upon about 5 hours of training a week, if not less. If I had the time to put in 15 to 20 hours, I could probably be a Cat 2 or 1 pretty easily. Ultimately, that is what makes me laugh about the elite category guys that think they are just so much better than other people out there racing. They have no clue what other people have on their plate.

With all that said, the very first race I went to in 2007, I got to watch a guy with his new Cervelo and Zipp wheels, stand at the start/finish line leaning on his bike so that everybody walking by on the sidewalk had to look at it. Me, I was sitting on the grass with my Colnago behind me laying in the grass. Anyway, when people stopped to talk to him he would lean the bike forward and back to make sure they paid attention to it and gave him a compliment about it. Honestly, it made me sick. Way too much emphasis on equipment in this sport, and some of the fastest guys do ride some of the cheapest bikes. Heck, one guy this past season went from a Cat 4 to a Cat 2 on a Scattante. Kudos to him.


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

GerryR said:


> More sex
> View attachment 183104



:yesnod:


----------



## sf_loft (Oct 5, 2009)

I'm a weekend rider just because that is the only time I have to ride my bicycle. When I do get the chance to ride, I thoroughly enjoy every second of it. So far I have not yet encountered the stereotypical elitist roadies that are mentioned often in these forums. People who pass me usually look over and say "how's it going?" and those coming the opposite direction will look and smile/nod. I'm slow (13-15mph avg) on rolling hill routes and people pass me all the time. I'm in pretty good health, just don't have the endurance / strength as the people who ride / exercise more frequently. When I purchased my bike, I took into account all these factors and bought something that is more than sufficient for me and something that is nice enough to make me enjoy the limited time I have on it. This was a hard decision as I am one of those people who enjoy fancy things and always opt for high-end on everything I own. I drooled and looked at all the $6000 bikes, loved reading about all the specs and materials (marketing propaganda to get guys like me excited), but at the end of the day I just couldn't justify spending that kind of money. A bicycle is not a status symbol and I'm not at the level where I can realize the benefit of a 14lb bike. I would embarrass myself more than anything knowing that I suck so bad while riding $6000 piece of equipment. With that said, I don't judge people for what they ride, it's their personal choice and people should enjoy life with what makes them happy. I'm completely happy with my entry-level aluminum bike with 105 grupo that I spent $1400 on (end of year special). For many people that's still expensive, but to me it's cheap but plenty enough for my skill level. I still end up spending $3000 overall for pedals, shoes, cycling clothes, and a better wheel set (saved 2 lbs from the stock wheels in this price range and better overall feel on climbs). 

I've observed so many people and their bikes and you can't judge someone based on what they ride. Where I ride, I see guys drive old average cars and pull out $5000 bikes but I can tell that they are hard core just from their physique and how fast I see them ride. I know people who don't make a lot of money yet own 3 expensive bikes because they compete in local races. I own a $900k condo, drive a $60k BMW and yet use an "old technology" aluminum bike. People on the road might respect / hate me for it, but I could care less. I've seen the reaction from people when driving my car, there will always be haters and jealous types out there, but life is too short to be concerned with what others think.


----------



## ameijer (Sep 30, 2009)

Zipp0 said:


> This is why I ride my older steel bike. When I get shelled out the back in a Cat 5 race people can say "Look at the POS bike....no wonder he can't keep up."



Man, I ought to keep this in mind....that's great.


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

sf_loft said:


> I'm a weekend rider just because that is the only time I have to ride my bicycle. When I do get the chance to ride, I thoroughly enjoy every second of it. So far I have not yet encountered the stereotypical elitist roadies that are mentioned often in these forums. People who pass me usually look over and say "how's it going?" and those coming the opposite direction will look and smile/nod. I'm slow (13-15mph avg) on rolling hill routes and people pass me all the time. I'm in pretty good health, just don't have the endurance / strength as the people who ride / exercise more frequently. When I purchased my bike, I took into account all these factors and bought something that is more than sufficient for me and something that is nice enough to make me enjoy the limited time I have on it. This was a hard decision as I am one of those people who enjoy fancy things and always opt for high-end on everything I own. I drooled and looked at all the $6000 bikes, loved reading about all the specs and materials (marketing propaganda to get guys like me excited), but at the end of the day I just couldn't justify spending that kind of money. A bicycle is not a status symbol and I'm not at the level where I can realize the benefit of a 14lb bike. I would embarrass myself more than anything knowing that I suck so bad while riding $6000 piece of equipment. With that said, I don't judge people for what they ride, it's their personal choice and people should enjoy life with what makes them happy. I'm completely happy with my entry-level aluminum bike with 105 grupo that I spent $1400 on (end of year special). For many people that's still expensive, but to me it's cheap but plenty enough for my skill level. I still end up spending $3000 overall for pedals, shoes, cycling clothes, and a better wheel set (saved 2 lbs from the stock wheels in this price range and better overall feel on climbs).
> 
> I've observed so many people and their bikes and you can't judge someone based on what they ride. Where I ride, I see guys drive old average cars and pull out $5000 bikes but I can tell that they are hard core just from their physique and how fast I see them ride. I know people who don't make a lot of money yet own 3 expensive bikes because they compete in local races. I own a $900k condo, drive a $60k BMW and yet use an "old technology" aluminum bike. People on the road might respect / hate me for it, but I could care less. I've seen the reaction from people when driving my car, there will always be haters and jealous types out there, but life is too short to be concerned with what others think.


Yep on all counts!

Today, a good entry level RB (like my Trek 1.5) offers one A LOT of bike for the money. 

Here's what's really weird to me about Bike Snobs...they only get to practice their art while standing still. 
If you're standing still, you're not biking. 
What's the point?

They probably suffer from having little pe...um, "pedals"!  

Anyway, I've ridden with all types of people (well to do, not so well off, etc...) and their bikes tell me absolutely nothing about them. 

There are aholes riding $5K bikes, there are decent folk riding $5K bikes.
There are aholes riding cheap bikes, there are decent folk riding cheap bikes. 

If someone has enough time to be a Bike Snob, then they have (in my opinion) too much time on their hands.
Or...not enough of an actual "life"!


----------



## rward325 (Sep 22, 2008)

I am old an slow but put a lot of miles on my bikes. I have zero credit card debt as that is how me father taught me. In this day and age people look at me like a freak when I tell them this. If I can't pay cash I don't need it. My cars are paid for, I have a couple of credit cards that if I use them I pay the balance at the end of the month. That said I own 2 very expensive road bike and a very nice mountain bike. I worked hard for the money to pay for those bikes and it took me until I was 48 years old to be able to afford a bike of my dreams. I have been riding road bikes since I was 17. I really don't really care what anyone thinks of me on my bike or what I wear when I am riding my bike. I am out there riding and that is a lot more than most people in this day and age of couch potatoes.


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

rward325 said:


> I am old an slow but put a lot of miles on my bikes. I have zero credit card debt as that is how me father taught me. In this day and age people look at me like a freak when I tell them this. If I can't pay cash I don't need it. My cars are paid for, I have a couple of credit cards that if I use them I pay the balance at the end of the month. That said I own 2 very expensive road bike and a very nice mountain bike. I worked hard for the money to pay for those bikes and it took me until I was 48 years old to be able to afford a bike of my dreams. I have been riding road bikes since I was 17. I really don't really care what anyone thinks of me on my bike or what I wear when I am riding my bike. I am out there riding and that is a lot more than most people in this day and age of couch potatoes.


Then I guess you have the perfect Profile Name!

Ride on MFer!

Ride on!

:thumbsup: 

(said in a completely complimentary manner)


----------



## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> I think it's pretty funny how there are lots of recreational riders who want Pro level bikes.


I think it's pretty funny that you care about what kind of bike someone else rides. And, yes, your post proves that you care.


----------



## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

Getting back to the OP's opinion of sexy looks, I think that many bikes look alike. I can get the picture of the 2nd Trek and the Orbea on my screen together. Take a close look at them. Pretend that they were both unpainted and had no decals. See any difference then? There's certainly not much. There's a tiny bit of diff at the junction of the top tube and seat tube. Other than that... Remember we're not talking about performance, weight, ride qualities, just looks alone.
That makes me say, "Why is one sexier/better looking than the other?"


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

Mr. Versatile said:


> Getting back to the OP's opinion of sexy looks, I think that many bikes look alike. I can get the picture of the 2nd Trek and the Orbea on my screen together. Take a close look at them. Pretend that they were both unpainted and had no decals. See any difference then? There's certainly not much. There's a tiny bit of diff at the junction of the top tube and seat tube. Other than that... Remember we're not talking about performance, weight, ride qualities, just looks alone.
> That makes me say, "Why is one sexier/better looking than the other?"


Angles. 

Looking at a bike from different angles makes a big difference for me. 
For example, I look at an Orca from the rear quarter and I think "mid-70's Corvette rear. 
I look at a Trek 6.9 from the same angle and I think "McLaren F1".
Of course, I don't expect anyone to see it my way.

But I get your drift on how similar bikes look today.


----------



## newmexrb1 (Aug 16, 2009)

Mr. Versatile said:


> Getting back to the OP's opinion of sexy looks, I think that many bikes look alike. I can get the picture of the 2nd Trek and the Orbea on my screen together. Take a close look at them. Pretend that they were both unpainted and had no decals. See any difference then? There's certainly not much. There's a tiny bit of diff at the junction of the top tube and seat tube. Other than that... Remember we're not talking about performance, weight, ride qualities, just looks alone.
> That makes me say, "Why is one sexier/better looking than the other?"


Agreed. Meanwhile that Look reminds me of a bad acid trip. I also can't find any love for the deep rims--even knowing they are more functional, one of the few cases where the form just strikes me as wrong.


----------



## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

newmexrb1 said:


> Agreed. Meanwhile that Look reminds me of a bad acid trip. I also can't find any love for the deep rims--even knowing they are more functional, one of the few cases where the form just strikes me as wrong.


Try them in a cross wind and you'll be second guessing the whole "more functional" statement... 

I guess the thing that really irks me with a lot of these new bikes is the size and number of freaking logos.

I personally thing they have it backwards- a $1000 bike should be covered in logos.

A $5000 bike should not. A $10,000 bike should have the logos taken off the individual components as well. You pay that much for a bike, there's no way you should have to advertise for someone else. 

I just think the free advertising on some of these bikes is absolutely out of control.


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

buck-50 said:


> Try them in a cross wind and you'll be second guessing the whole "more functional" statement...
> 
> I guess the thing that really irks me with a lot of these new bikes is the size and number of freaking logos.
> 
> ...


I don't know about that. 

Think about it, the people who'd flip out at such a price probably couldn't tell a Trek 1.5 from a Madone 4.7 
(which to the untrained eye look alike). 

Meanwhile, those who actually could tell the difference would give kudos to the owner of the Madone.


----------



## jdille1984 (May 16, 2009)

rward325 said:


> I worked hard for the money to pay for those bikes and it took me until I was 48 years old to be able to afford a bike of my dreams.



rward, you're my hero!


----------



## King Arthur (Nov 13, 2009)

*too much time*



Kuma601 said:


> Aesthetically, I'm not liking the curved TT's on these. Much prefer the diamond shapes, sharp, straight...with queues from a past era. I can accept the much larger tube diameters though.


Too much time judging others and not enough time minding out own store. Having to buy the queen in my life a custom. It is costing my some nice dollars, but her arthritis in her neck will be better for it. A stock bike just does not fit. I despise comments from smaller minds that may not wish to ask why a purchase is made. If the owner can afford it, and still be asolid citizen then do so. Those laughing at others because of their machines speaks of hypocritism to me (small minds smaller wee****)


----------



## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

MR GRUMPY said:


> I and another racer were laughing at Cat 5 racers who were riding $5000 bikes, who had been shelled off the back, and were behind riders on $800 bikes.





Zipp0 said:


> This is why I ride my older steel bike. When I get shelled out the back in a Cat 5 race people can say "Look at the POS bike....no wonder he can't keep up."


These two quotes go to illustrate the fact that we can't please everyone so who *are* we going to please? As we have only one life to lead, that person had better be *US*. After all, we are dead a long time and the only life you have isn't worth wasting is it? Buy what makes *you* happy.


----------



## sf_loft (Oct 5, 2009)

2ndGen said:


> I don't know about that.
> 
> Think about it, the people who'd flip out at such a price probably couldn't tell a Trek 1.5 from a Madone 4.7
> (which to the untrained eye look alike).
> ...


I can tell that they both ride on a set of bricks just like my Gary Fisher Arc Pro (Same bontrager SSR). I quickly replaced those wheels when I realized how much lighter wheels can get.


----------



## sf_loft (Oct 5, 2009)

If I decked out my $1800 bike and spend an additional $1200 on replacing components, wheels, and parts, will I be judged like I'm riding a $3000 bike?  or will I be judged based on the frame and brand? My ride is a looker because people either think that Gary Fisher is a Walmart brand or "WTF, they make road bikes now?" Will I be laughed at for riding such a crappy bike or will I get booed because its too much for my skill level?

My bike brings sexy back. Wheels have been replaced with Ksyriums SL and on the way are Ritchey stem, handlebar, seatpost, and FSA K-Force light compact crank set. Since the photo, the saddle have been replaced with a Specialized Toupe Team. My LBS only had the triple version and since I'm relatively new at this sport I thought it would be needed, but I rarely use the 30T. 39T is a little tough for some of the hills, but 50/34 would be perfect for my rides. The crankset and wheels I felt were a definite necessity, but the other upgrades are simply for cosmetics and really small weight reduction. At the end I'll have a 16lb aluminum/carbon bike which I can take lower by replacing my 105's with SRAM force. FleeBay is my friend.


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

sf_loft said:


> I can tell that they both ride on a set of bricks just like my Gary Fisher Arc Pro (Same bontrager SSR). I quickly replaced those wheels when I realized how much lighter wheels can get.


Did you ever have your SSR's weighed?

Or your Arc weighed before and after just the wheel swap?

I've read that they were as heavy as 3 kilos, but that in the UK, they weigh them with cogs & skewers. 

I'm keeping my SSR's as a second set. 
No sense in chucking them. 
They are strong wheels.


----------



## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

buck-50 said:


> Try them in a cross wind and you'll be second guessing the whole "more functional" statement...
> 
> I guess the thing that really irks me with a lot of these new bikes is the size and number of freaking logos.
> 
> ...


:thumbsup: +1:thumbsup: Same for "T" shirts & jerseys. I've thought for years that if somebody's brand name was on it I should get it at a reduced price, if not free.


----------



## sf_loft (Oct 5, 2009)

2ndGen said:


> Did you ever have your SSR's weighed?
> 
> Or your Arc weighed before and after just the wheel swap?
> 
> ...


My arc pro weighed ~19 lbs and the wheels with skewers and 12-27 cassette was 6.7 lbs. I replaced the wheels with Ksyrium SL's + ultra light tubes + Continental GP 4000s tires + smaller and lighter 11-23 Ultegra cogs. The bike is roughly 16.8 lbs now. My weight measurements aren't the most accurate because I use my personal bathroom digital scale and no good way to let the bike rest so there was a lot of play in the numbers. 

Here's more of an official weight from a review site of the Bontrager SSR. Not sure what type of tube or tires were on them, but it came out to 6.83 lbs. So 3 kilos is about right.

Front Wheel Weight: *1286 g*
Rear Wheel Weight: *1816 g*
Rims Brand: Bontrager 
Rims Model: SSR 

I still have my SSR's and will use them for in-city rides where the roads are simply rough. The Ksyriums aren't the lightest, but they are really strong for their weight, but still too nice to be riding it around San Francisco.


----------



## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

I wish Assos had a bike for sale. I'd buy one. It's have to be the best, because it would certainly cost the most. In keeping with their $700 jackets and their $400 bibs, their frame offering should probably price-in at around $50,000, maybe $65,000 with a fork. Boy! Would that ever make me fast and I'd probably be the only guy riding one at the next Needy CEO Charity Ride.


----------



## Slee_Stack (Jun 28, 2006)

Jealousy can hit even the best of us at times. I remember judging the guys in school who had all their stuff paid for. Of course I used to think I was 'better' because I had to 'pay my way' on my own. I understand the 'laughing' at these guys. It's a coping mechanism that makes one 'feel' better, albeit temporarily, about their 'lower station' in life.

Next time you feel the urge, try to imagine what a third-world native would think of YOU on your 'fancy $500' bike.

I don't complain (anymore) about spending. People spend 'crazy' money on jewelry, landscaping, scrapbooking!, etc. I've YET to find someone who spends tons of money on something they DON'T enjoy.

The sooner one gets over the big green monster, the truly happier they will be.

On another note, the blacked-out or 'murdered' look intrigued me enough that I built a bike up that way. It was cool for a moment, but I quickly realized the looks was NOT for me. I sold it off almost immediately at a minor loss. Lesson learned.


----------



## pigpen (Sep 28, 2005)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> "I enjoy knowing the mystic and feeling like I am "one" with the group of riders who share our passion every single day."
> 
> Ain't nothing "mystical" about bike ridin'. The only thing "mystical" about bike ridin', is when you're hurting so bad, you begin to see dead relatives.
> 
> A bike is just a tool. Same as a hammer. Sure, you want a hammer that is balanced well, and a shaft that won't break, but do you really want a $300 hammer?


I don't ride a 12,000 dollar pro level bike. Mine is a 8 yr old steel beast but I do have 8+ Estwing hammers. Different sizes for different uses and I am not a carpenter. Actually I use to be a framer.


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

sf_loft said:


> My arc pro weighed ~19 lbs and the wheels with skewers and 12-27 cassette was 6.7 lbs. I replaced the wheels with Ksyrium SL's + ultra light tubes + Continental GP 4000s tires + smaller and lighter 11-23 Ultegra cogs. The bike is roughly 16.8 lbs now. My weight measurements aren't the most accurate because I use my personal bathroom digital scale and no good way to let the bike rest so there was a lot of play in the numbers.
> 
> Here's more of an official weight from a review site of the Bontrager SSR. Not sure what type of tube or tires were on them, but it came out to 6.83 lbs. So 3 kilos is about right.
> 
> ...


Thanks!

The SRAM 950 Cassette weighs in at 425g's meaning that the wheelset alone should be over 5.9 lbs? 
Geeyot Dang!

If my math's right, a set of 1800g wheels will drop 2 lbs off my bike (currently at 19.07 lbs).
I have the same tire/tube set up in mind (Conti GP4K's with Michelin Airstop Light Tubes). 

Thanks a lot for the info SL! 

:thumbsup:


----------



## calle_betis (Jun 30, 2006)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> I think it's pretty funny how there are lots of recreational riders who want Pro level bikes.


I'll don't have the cabbage, but I'd love to own a Ferrari, an old Jag, or even a '50's caddy with a ton of chrome. It's OK to want. Those bikes are works of art, just like a classic car is.

Just my two cents.


----------



## donevan (Dec 19, 2008)

Best reply I've ever read in Roadbikereview.com!!
I cannot agree you more!! 
Turn a deaf ear to those stupid backbiter and only focus on what makes us happy!
And hope you have a good ride today!

donevan, seoul, korea.


----------



## rcjunkie3000 (Sep 5, 2009)

*More sexy...*

Looking at getting a Wilier Izoard but can't decide on color. Blue, Silver or Red?


----------



## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

rcjunkie3000 said:


> Looking at getting a Wilier Izoard but can't decide on color. Blue, Silver or Red?


2-3-1 in that order. Trust me.


----------



## rcjunkie3000 (Sep 5, 2009)

*Wilier Izoard color...*

Thanks. So far #2 (silver/white/carbon) it is :thumbsup: ...and that color was added for 2010. Blue is gone for '10


----------



## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

rcjunkie3000 said:


> Thanks. So far #2 (silver/white/carbon) it is :thumbsup: ...and that color was added for 2010. Blue is gone for '10


I told ya to trust me didn't I?


----------



## QQUIKM3 (Apr 20, 2008)

*Hilarious. . .*



MR_GRUMPY said:


> I think it's pretty funny how there are lots of recreational riders who want Pro level bikes.


Truly a retarded comment. If only wanna be cat X "racers" bought high end bikes, all the big names would be out of business. It's rec riders like me who get paid enough in a two week check to buy say, a Pinarello Dogma that keep companies in business. I also find if funny where unpaid professionals are crashing their high end bikes at local crits.:thumbsup:


----------



## QQUIKM3 (Apr 20, 2008)

*Another silly statement. . .*



MR_GRUMPY said:


> That's the problem. People don't want to pay their dues.....They just want.


I paid dues. . Grad school. Now I can, and do, ride for fitness an $8,500 bike. Yeaaaa, you got to love the system.


----------



## QQUIKM3 (Apr 20, 2008)

*Exellent comment. . .*




skeedunt said:


> You know if all these people were not buying the expensive bikes, then your $5,000 bike would cost you $25,000.


This is how the lower Campagnolo groups got so good. Trickle down technology only happens when the high end items are being bought.


----------



## f3rg (May 11, 2008)

I'd like to see a pic of 2ndGen's bike, instead of just the stuff he considers eye candy.


----------



## QQUIKM3 (Apr 20, 2008)

mavicwheels said:


> While I may be just a recreational rider, and my skills probably about average at that, I do enjoy what I ride.


What jealous working class heroes like Grumpy don't seem to understand is that even a Cat 1 is a recreational rider. If you have a job and race, that only makes you a "recreational" rider at best. If you are paid a salary to ride and get free bikes, you are then a "non-recreational" rider. A professional. I don't really get the paying for a license and paying fees to ride my bike. I just roll out my front door and go.:thumbsup:


----------



## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

QQUIKM3 said:


> paying for a license and paying fees to ride my bike. I just roll out my front door and go.


My best races have all been in my head against unseen opponents. Eddy Merckx wasn't quite as good as they claimed he was. He had his weaknesses.


----------



## 72guy (Nov 18, 2009)

2ndGen said:


> I don't know about that.
> 
> Think about it, the people who'd flip out at such a price probably couldn't tell a Trek 1.5 from a Madone 4.7
> (which to the untrained eye look alike).
> ...


My new 6 series Madone ( on order ) looks like that. Pearl White with one TREK logo on the down tube in Chi Red. I felt the bike got lost in all of the graphics with the standard paint jobs. I wanted something more subtle and understated. Funny I had to pay a few hundred dollars to get a paint job that probably required less labor.


----------



## Fltplan (Feb 27, 2009)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Wouldn't anyone prefer the very best of whatever they have, if money were no issue
> 
> That's the problem. People don't want to pay their dues.....They just want.



Wow, this could be a problem for race car manufacturers. Can you imagine if you couldn't buy a Ferrari or a Porsche unless you had paid your dues. I think the financial side of things takes care of the pay your dues part. That being said, it was fun passing guys up with dura ace when I had 105. 

Bicycling just happens to be a low cost sport when compared with other forms of racing. You can go spend 10k and be assured that you have one of the nicest bikes around. Nothing about driving a million dollar car means that you can race it to it's limits. No difference with cycling.


----------



## CActuskid (Sep 3, 2008)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Yeah, but I rode a lot of third rate crap over the last 26 years............


SCREW THAT...id rather ride 2 years then upgrade to a kick-ass bike

Yep, your a GRUMPY


----------



## Hula Hoop (Feb 4, 2009)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> "
> Ain't nothing "mystical" about bike ridin'. The only thing "mystical" about bike ridin', is when you're hurting so bad, you begin to see dead relatives.
> 
> A bike is just a tool. Same as a hammer. Sure, you want a hammer that is balanced well, and a shaft that won't break, but do you really want a $300 hammer?


Wow, that just nails it completely. I bought a house this spring, and had to sell my CF
rocket to pay for furniture. I have been riding (and training on) a 22 year old steel 36 spoke
bike that fits perfectly, has excellent equipment at all the contact points and a good computer. The real joy of riding is getting stronger, working on the incredibly complex and fascinating art of the pedal stroke, accessing and testing ones ability to go into the pain zone, and more generally, learning to apply sophisticated training methods. Riding is just exponentially more addictive with strong legs and cardio system. And as much as I hate to admit it, there is a certain satisfaction in showing up on a group ride on said bike, seeing the subtle disapproval and condescension, then riding at the front and winning the respect of the other riders. Its all about the legs, baby. Everything else is incidental. Anyone can ride an expensive bike, but not everyone can prove there courage, strength of will and fortitude to suffer and come out the other side. But talk is cheap, even for me, and it's always "what have you done for me lately" so I will "see dead relatives" on the fluid trainer again tonight.


----------



## Balderick (Jul 11, 2006)

fabsroman said:


> The amount of debt people are carrying is utterly nuts. Suggesting to somebody that I'm going to pay cash for our next car makes them pick their mouth up from the floor.


I respectfully agree, and did just that when I purchased a new Mazda runabout recently. BTW, it is a far better car that the Subaru I have that cost twice as much, but I digress. 



fabsroman said:


> The one thing I will not agree with Buck-50 on is the Smart car. Until EVERYBODY is driving one of them and/or we are only putting a very few miles on our cars every year, I will not risk my or my wife's life in one of those things, and my kids would never, ever be in one even if it was only for a short ride. I've done too many auto accident cases and seen some pretty horrible stuff, to believe that driving one of those in anything but the city is not the equivalent of playing Russian roulette.


I understand the point, but you ride a bike with a much higher risk of injury is some numpty drives in to you. Personally, I'd like to have little commuter cars lighter than a Smart - think a modern Mini (not the beefed up version BMW build) on road where heavier cars are not permitted, or have to drive really really slow.



fabsroman said:


> Last but not least, I don't begrudge anybody that can afford a nice bike, even a Cat 5 rider or a weekend rider. If they have the money, then the deserve it. ..Ultimately, that is what makes me laugh about the elite category guys that think they are just so much better than other people out there racing. They have no clue what other people have on their plate.


Agree with this too. We have guys who race club E grade who are in their 70's and 80's, and they enjoy riding around in a bunch on some pretty old steel framed bikes. For them, their race is as interesting as it is for the local elites, or for those of us in the grades in between. Racing is what you make of it - there is always someone who can beat you, and always someone who you can ebat, and who is in those two categories changes. 



fabsroman said:


> With all that said, the very first race I went to in 2007, I got to watch a guy with his new Cervelo and Zipp wheels, stand at the start/finish line leaning on his bike so that everybody walking by on the sidewalk had to look at it. Me, I was sitting on the grass with my Colnago behind me laying in the grass. Anyway, when people stopped to talk to him he would lean the bike forward and back to make sure they paid attention to it and gave him a compliment about it. Honestly, it made me sick. Way too much emphasis on equipment in this sport, and some of the fastest guys do ride some of the cheapest bikes. Heck, one guy this past season went from a Cat 4 to a Cat 2 on a Scattante. Kudos to him.


I agree with you that there is too much emphasis on gear, when the point of difference in perfomance (whether it be speed or comfort) is probably not significant. But if people want the fancy gear good luck to them. 

I guess most of us have had a sense of pride when we have turned up to racing with a new bike, or new wheels or something a bit special. 

Two of my friends fall squarely in the bling and no bling camps. The former has a CErvelo running Red and 404s. The other has, literally, an Aldi road bike running 36 spoke heavy wheels. Tight crit suits the former, and the later weighs about 30kg more than the former. Both probably Cat 2 racers, and have raced for 30+ years. The highlight was to see Aldi boy ride away from Cervelo boy, when everyone would have expected the opposite. Now that was cool.


----------



## The Weasel (Jul 20, 2006)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> I think it's pretty funny how there are lots of recreational riders who want Pro level bikes.


Please give us your thoughts on people who have fancy Swiss automatics watches insead of cheap quartz digitals (which provide a more accurate time)


----------



## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

The Weasel said:


> Please give us your thoughts on people who have fancy Swiss automatics watches insead of cheap quartz digitals (which provide a more accurate time)


I used to hang around on a high-end watch forum (Oris). One guy said "If I want to feel good I use my Oris. If I want accurate time I look at my cellphone."


----------



## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*You said it well!*



Hula Hoop said:


> Wow, that just nails it completely. I bought a house this spring, and had to sell my CF
> rocket to pay for furniture. I have been riding (and training on) a 22 year old steel 36 spoke
> bike that fits perfectly, has excellent equipment at all the contact points and a good computer. The real joy of riding is getting stronger, working on the incredibly complex and fascinating art of the pedal stroke, accessing and testing ones ability to go into the pain zone, and more generally, learning to apply sophisticated training methods. Riding is just exponentially more addictive with strong legs and cardio system. And as much as I hate to admit it, there is a certain satisfaction in showing up on a group ride on said bike, seeing the subtle disapproval and condescension, then riding at the front and winning the respect of the other riders. Its all about the legs, baby. Everything else is incidental. Anyone can ride an expensive bike, but not everyone can prove there courage, strength of will and fortitude to suffer and come out the other side. But talk is cheap, even for me, and it's always "what have you done for me lately" so I will "see dead relatives" on the fluid trainer again tonight.


I've been riding an out of date bike for a good 20 years now, same as yours but a little older, showing up at group rides and getting snickers, et. al. But those feelings are quickly forgotten when they see they can't drop me, and whenever I want, I can sprint up a hill and be the first at the top. As Lance said, "It's not about the bike." After the oohs and ahhs are exchanged before the ride, the bikes are all but forgotten in the jousting of skills, power, and willingness to suffer. :thumbsup:


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

72guy said:


> My new 6 series Madone ( on order ) looks like that. Pearl White with one TREK logo on the down tube in Chi Red. I felt the bike got lost in all of the graphics with the standard paint jobs. I wanted something more subtle and understated. Funny I had to pay a few hundred dollars to get a paint job that probably required less labor.


*Wow...the '08 6.9 and the '08 1.5 are even closer in appearance:*

*$7,600.*










*$1,100.*











*Personally, I like the understated styling of the Über Madones. 

If I were to get a 6.9 (or any custom bike), 
it'd either have a Warm Fire paint scheme or
I'd go in the completely opposite direction and 
have it as completely blacked out as possible. 

In the end, the bike would only have to please one person and that would be "me". 

Enjoy your ride.
*
:thumbsup:


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

*Sexy...2010 Parlee Z5

Raw. Purpose Built. Ubiquitous. Gorgeous.

Remove the labels/decals, stem, saddle, crankset 
and it'd be hard to tell that that's an $8,000.00 bike, 
but one ride on it will tell show you the difference.

Of course, a set of pedals would be needed for that ride! 

 *


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

*Sexy...Wilier Imperiale*


----------



## nayr497 (Nov 8, 2008)

Originally Posted by nightfend
I unfortunately see guys like Grumpy all the time at races and when I'm on training rides. They look down on riders who are not "racers", who have expensive bikes, or who wear pro team clothing while not a pro. These also tend to be the people that give road racers a bad name.

It's best to just ignore these type of people. They have personal issues and are simply criticizing others to make themselves feel good.

If I had to guess, the common denominator between many racers that get upset with Cat.5's noodling around on $5k bikes is that they themselves can not afford to race on this high-end equipment and there is a resentment there as they know they are a faster rider and therefore should deservedly be able to ride a better bike. Unfortunately the real world doesn't work this way.

Be content with yourself and your ability and you won't have to find relief in being critical of others bikes or clothing or riding habits.



C130 said:


> One of the best posts I have read and oh so true. I recently bought a 2010 SuperSix 1. I don't race and I am not very fast but I really enjoy riding road bikes, used to ride mountain bikes only. I bought it because I liked it, wanted it, could afford it, and it is motivation for me to keep riding and improving. It is no ones business what type of bike I I ride unless they are paying for it and if anyone has an issue with the type of bike one rides then that person has some real serious issues in life. I have a long time good friend who has already made ignorant comments about my bike as though it is any of his business. I just don't get it, some people are just pathetic, that's about the only way to describe these people. Man, life is too short to worry about what bike one rides and just be glad they are out riding. I love my new bike and know it is way nicer than what I "need" but I enjoy it and that is all that matters. It's my hobby, my money, and it's healthy so there are way more important issues in life to worry about.


Two great posts! I just thought about it and I've never, ever seen someone riding a nice bike and thought, "What a jerk! They aren't fast enough to deserve that!!" Now, my neighbor who has a $3000 carbon bike and told me she loves to ride and yet I've never seen her ride it, ever. Well, that kind of bugs me, but not enough to lose any sleep over it 

And, can someone please point me towards the guy who made up the rule that ALL online forums must have someone who is both "grumpy" and revels in this state of mind. I'd like to punch him right in the mouth. 

It is also kind of funny to consider that the guys who race a $5000 probably can't/don't race hard enough to make crashing a strong possibility. The amateur guys who race that hard know it is a better idea to use a cheaper bike on this rides. Sure, they might train on a $5000, but many of them race on a $2000.


----------



## nayr497 (Nov 8, 2008)

Nice Parlee, not nice Wilier. I've really never seen a TT bike that I like the looks of that much.


----------



## Ken_Birchall (Apr 21, 2004)

*a gross $$ grab and some nice bikes*

here's a revolting bike that if you order it complete can be as much as $17,000 http://www.delta7bikes.com/

in the realm of reality the new Scott CR1 and the Cannondale SuperSix look pretty nice. One I'd really like to have is the Blue NorCross


----------



## Ken_Birchall (Apr 21, 2004)

follow the link, not everyone will agree but . . .. 

http://www.cyclelicio.us/2010/heather-graham-rode-a-bicycle/


----------



## Ken_Birchall (Apr 21, 2004)

"Bike Setup:
2008 Trek 1.5 "


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

Ken_Birchall said:


> "Bike Setup:
> 2008 Trek 1.5 "


As opposed to a...
"Bike Setup:
_Specialized Allez Comp_ dub"?






*Take off eh! *


----------



## Ken_Birchall (Apr 21, 2004)

the Ti hammer analogy and trying to tie that to Lance on a 30yr old bike v. Lance on something modern is kind of beside the point.

I don't believe the argument against the hyper expensive bikes should be seen as a bunch of Luddites saying "hey everyone ride old steel frames with sew ups and hang your spare tires around your neck when you go on a weekend ride". Some of these 15 and 16k bikes are pointless in the extreme, they won't make you and they won't make Lance go any faster. They're fabrege eggs on wheels and there are pointless little "design" elements that are here today and gone tomorrow like neon shorts in the 80's.


----------



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)




----------



## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

"This is a piss poor attitude."
Uhh, his name is Mr. Grumpy. 
"...and got my upgrade after _just_ 7 races."
snicker


----------

