# De Rosa bicycles pool



## smokva

Few nice pics:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/derosa/pool/show/


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## barry1021

something for everyone!!

b21


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## nickb4

The Titanio is quite a looker.


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## sneyer

Yeah, I'd almost kill to get my hands on a 55cm Titanio. They are pretty much the hardest of the old De Rosa's to find. I've only ever seen a couple of them.

BTW, thanks for posting that.



nickb4 said:


> The Titanio is quite a looker.


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## Nitemare

Her'e my Titanio!!


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## mriddle

*That was great!*

Thanks for posting.


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## smokva

sneyer said:


> Yeah, I'd almost kill to get my hands on a 55cm Titanio. They are pretty much the hardest of the old De Rosa's to find. I've only ever seen a couple of them.
> 
> BTW, thanks for posting that.


Few years back, I found an old Titanio for sale in some bike shop in Italy. Paint wasn't in good shape and it was on the small side for me (58, and I need 60) so I didn't buy it. Now I'm sorry:mad2:
It had identical graphics and same fork like this one: https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3037/3108195496_52509b7095.jpg?v=0
They asked some 500-600 EUR for the frame with original fork.


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## MERAKMAN

Please tell me why people go for Titanium over carbon? Sorry for my ignorance, but I can't say which material is better for a frame because I've only ridden one titanium frame and that was a Merlin..didn't do that much for me...

Carbon to me is the best material for a frame that I've ridden (but does vary from frame to frame) alloy and steel come joint second, titanium am not sure about..


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## sneyer

*Which material is better?*

Boy is this a can of worms. It's kinda like asking which is better, Campy or Shimano?

Here we go...I'm going to say it...

They are all really good! I've been luckily enough to own way too many bikes in pretty much every material, and the truth is, it's the builder not the medium. There are great bikes in ti, carbon, alloy and steel. Unfortunately there are really, really bad bikes in ti, carbon, alloy and steel. All have their advantages and disadvantages, but when it comes right down to it, a bike that fits perfect, from a good builder, will ride great.

With that said, the big advantages IMHO are:
1)	Fully customizable: not a big deal if you have an off the peg body, but if you need say a 52 seat tube and a 58 top tube, custom ti is usually a less expensive option than carbon (same goes for steel and alloy).
2)	Finish: whether you like the “ti grey” or not, it doesn’t scratch easily and if it does, it’s easy to polish out. Old ti bikes look great with a little work.
3)	Easy to repair: A repaired ti frame is as good as new (or close to it). Repaired carbon has always made me nervous, even when done by an expert (Calfee for example).
4)	Very durable: Back in my bike shop days I sold a lot of frames in all 4 materials. I also saw a lot of broken frames. By far ti, then steel had the lowest failure rates. How many detonated ti frames have you seen on this forum?

I’m sure there are a bunch of other reasons that others can elaborate on, but those are my top 4, in no specific order.



MERAKMAN said:


> Please tell me why people go for Titanium over carbon? Sorry for my ignorance, but I can't say which material is better for a frame because I've only ridden one titanium frame and that was a Merlin..didn't do that much for me...
> 
> Carbon to me is the best material for a frame that I've ridden (but does vary from frame to frame) alloy and steel come joint second, titanium am not sure about..


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## MERAKMAN

sneyer said:


> Boy is this a can of worms. It's kinda like asking which is better, Campy or Shimano?
> 
> Here we go...I'm going to say it...
> 
> They are all really good! I've been luckily enough to own way too many bikes in pretty much every material, and the truth is, it's the builder not the medium. There are great bikes in ti, carbon, alloy and steel. Unfortunately there are really, really bad bikes in ti, carbon, alloy and steel. All have their advantages and disadvantages, but when it comes right down to it, a bike that fits perfect, from a good builder, will ride great.
> 
> With that said, the big advantages IMHO are:
> 1)	Fully customizable: not a big deal if you have an off the peg body, but if you need say a 52 seat tube and a 58 top tube, custom ti is usually a less expensive option than carbon (same goes for steel and alloy).
> 2)	Finish: whether you like the “ti grey” or not, it doesn’t scratch easily and if it does, it’s easy to polish out. Old ti bikes look great with a little work.
> 3)	Easy to repair: A repaired ti frame is as good as new (or close to it). Repaired carbon has always made me nervous, even when done by an expert (Calfee for example).
> 4)	Very durable: Back in my bike shop days I sold a lot of frames in all 4 materials. I also saw a lot of broken frames. By far ti, then steel had the lowest failure rates. How many detonated ti frames have you seen on this forum?
> 
> I’m sure there are a bunch of other reasons that others can elaborate on, but those are my top 4, in no specific order.



Agreed; but what about actual Road Feel. The feel of the frame under you and the sensations that it gives back to the rider...? Say if you rode four frames exactly the same apart from the material they were made from; steel, ti, alloy and carbon. What would be your preference and what would the differences be between the materials?

As I mentioned, I like alloy (but can hurt after 2 hours or so) steel is a lovely feel, but often heavy. Carbon is fantastic because its light and response, like alloy, but comfortable too. But Titanium?


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## sneyer

It's all about the builder. Let me try to give a couple of examples...

Merlin XL .vs Litespeed Ultimate (sent a bunch of time on both): The Merlin was a very lively frame, springy even, great for long rides and crappy roads. The Litespeed was a rocket ship in the sprints, but not as comfortable, not as lively under me.

Merak vs. Cannondale CAAD 5: Hard to compair b/c the Merak had a great ride, wish it absorbed vibration a little better, but not too bad for alloy. Hated the C'dale. Couldn't ride more than 45 minutes w/o numb hands and a sore back. Both bike felts light to pick-up, but only the Merak felt light under the rider.

Thats one of the reasons it's nice to have a custom bike. You get to tell the builder how you want the frame to ride.My favorite bike is my SLX De Rosa. The geometry is perfect, the fit is perfect, but it's 22lbs and flexy as heck in the BB. Still the bike rides great, because it's well made and the right size. If I was to have a custom bike made, from any material, I'd ask to duplicate that frame, but lighter, with a stiffer BB.

It's really hard to answer "road feel" questions for a given material b/c each of the builders bikes feel different; a Moots rides different than an Erikson, which rides different than a Merlin.



MERAKMAN said:


> Agreed; but what about actual Road Feel. The feel of the frame under you and the sensations that it gives back to the rider...? As I mentioned, I like alloy (but can hurt after 2 hours or so) steel is a lovely feel, but often heavy. Carbon is fantastic because its light and response, like alloy, but comfortable too. Titanium?


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## MERAKMAN

sneyer said:


> It's all about the builder. Let me try to give a couple of examples...
> 
> Merlin XL .vs Litespeed Ultimate (sent a bunch of time on both): The Merlin was a very lively frame, springy even, great for long rides and crappy roads. The Litespeed was a rocket ship in the sprints, but not as comfortable, not as lively under me.
> 
> Merak vs. Cannondale CAAD 5: Hard to compair b/c the Merak had a great ride, wish it absorbed vibration a little better, but not too bad for alloy. Hated the C'dale. Couldn't ride more than 45 minutes w/o numb hands and a sore back. Both bike felts light to pick-up, but only the Merak felt light under the rider.
> 
> Thats one of the reasons it's nice to have a custom bike. You get to tell the builder how you want the frame to ride.My favorite bike is my SLX De Rosa. The geometry is perfect, the fit is perfect, but it's 22lbs and flexy as heck in the BB. Still the bike rides great, because it's well made and the right size. If I was to have a custom bike made, from any material, I'd ask to duplicate that frame, but lighter, with a stiffer BB.
> 
> It's really hard to answer "road feel" questions for a given material b/c each of the builders bikes feel different; a Moots rides different than an Erikson, which rides different than a Merlin.



I see what you mean, But, SAME frame maker, same geometry; frames in all four materials mentioned, steel, ti, carbon and alloy. Which to choose...??:idea:


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## sneyer

Ahhh......good question. The closest I've gotten to that is with the De Rosa's. So far I've ridden (extensively) or owned in order of purchase date:

1)	1986 SLX Pro: Awesome bike, light for it’s time, but heavy now. The standard by which I judge all other bikes. I still own this bike.
2)	1992 Primato (EL/OS): Much lighter and stiffer, esp. in the BB than the SLX. Fork felt about the same. For some reason I never liked this bike as much as the SLX, not sure why. SOLD
3)	2001 Merak: Very light, nice ride, stiff fork. Could stand to absorb road vibration a little better. SOLD
4)	2002/2003 UD: Very similar to the Merak, but a little too flexy. Flexy in a different way than the SLX. With the SLX the BB flexes, but doesn’t bother me. With the UD, I felt like the whole frame flexed. It kind of scared me.
5)	King XL: Not sure of year, but ridden a total of maybe 8 hours. A friend loaned me this bike and it wasn’t set-up exactly for me, but it had a nice ride. Thought it felt similar to the Merak with better shock dampening. I’d have a hard time buying one of these with some of the dropout issues I’ve seen.
6)	2000 Neo Primato (Columbus Genius): I just got this frame (NOS) and have only ridden it a total of 10 hours, but boy I like it. Stiffer and lighter than the SLX, but with the same geometry. Overall a great bike. The detailing on it is nowhere as nice as on the 86, but the ride is fantastic. Very smooth, but takes off when you stand-up.

All the frames were a 55cm c-c except for the King which was a 56. I’ve yet to find/ride a Titanio, but from what I’ve heard they ride like the steel bikes but a re a little lighter, and as I mentioned before I kill for one.

After having read this it appears that I am partial to steel, but I’m not sure that is the case. I’d love to get my hands on a Neo Pro.


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## MERAKMAN

Hmm Neo Pro! Choose between Neo Pro or Titanio..?

Thanks for the reviews, never ridden a Neo Primato or similar but I do have a 1998 Endurace which is very stiff for steel ride! V nice frame and comfortable too despite stiffness..


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## sneyer

Tough call, but I'd go Titanio. I tend to not buy anything the first year or two after it comes out. I buddy of mine works for BMW and thinks the best year for a car is the last year it's produced, right before the model year changes. I think the same applies to bike stuff.

I'd love to see pics of your Endurance...those are pretty rare. Not many made it to the US.


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## MERAKMAN

sneyer said:


> Tough call, but I'd go Titanio. I tend to not buy anything the first year or two after it comes out. I buddy of mine works for BMW and thinks the best year for a car is the last year it's produced, right before the model year changes. I think the same applies to bike stuff.
> 
> I'd love to see pics of your Endurance...those are pretty rare. Not many made it to the US.



I'd love to post pics of my bikes, but me and computers don't always get on! I'll ask me g'friend (fiancee, in case she reads this ) to sort something out. Anyway the Endurace is matt blue, with half white and half red ENDURACE lettering. The DE ROSA lettering on the downtube is white with a touch of lime in it. Its a lovely frame, a tad small for me, as I got it off e bay. It was brand new, never ridden and the previous owner was a Policeman who had never built it up. Will work on the pics..I kinda agree with you on the buying of things in the first year or two, I bought my King X Light the very last year it was made 2007. Hope it won't break like some others:thumbsup:


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## Nitemare

Hi all,
Well I have both a De Rosa Titanio and a Corum! 

Both are excellent rides and the steel Corum is constantly mistaken for an aluminium frame as it feels so light!! However, the Titanio just seems to ooze craftmanship and handles so neatly on descents and yet still feels lively enough when climbing.
I rode/raced a carbon TVT for many years and I still use it from time to time when training in Spain. It has gone a little now but its handling still feels adequate.
In short most well built carbon frames will feel great and perform well but I feel that for longevity and comfort its really hard to by-pass a well built steel and most certainly a Titinium frame.
Even my recently acquired De Rosa Carbon Cross feels lively and the forks etc on it are nothing short of bomb proof!!

Ride safe,

Nitemare:thumbsup:


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## MERAKMAN

Nitemare said:


> Hi all,
> Well I have both a De Rosa Titanio and a Corum!
> 
> Both are excellent rides and the steel Corum is constantly mistaken for an aluminium frame as it feels so light!! However, the Titanio just seems to ooze craftmanship and handles so neatly on descents and yet still feels lively enough when climbing.
> I rode/raced a carbon TVT for many years and I still use it from time to time when training in Spain. It has gone a little now but its handling still feels adequate.
> In short most well built carbon frames will feel great and perform well but I feel that for longevity and comfort its really hard to by-pass a well built steel and most certainly a Titinium frame.
> Even my recently acquired De Rosa Carbon Cross feels lively and the forks etc on it are nothing short of bomb proof!!
> 
> Ride safe,
> 
> Nitemare:thumbsup:


Hi Nigel

Is your Carbon Cross made of steel or alloy? I must admit, always fancied the Corum, thats one sexy looking frame. How does the Corum go downhill? I want something that gives a secure feeling when bombing downhill!  I take it its good uphill too, with it being so light an all? I think its the one frame out of all the De Rosa range I've never seen in the flesh. Saw an XS at the Cycle show last year, blew my camera away on it, beautiful frame! People must have thought I was obessed or something 
My heart was torn between that and the King 3, wouldn't have a clue what to choose if I was lucky enough to decide between them...


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## Nitemare

Merakman,
I got the Corum to ride to work and so keep my Titanio for my nice summer weather rides around Northern Ireland. I had no idea that I'd love it so much especially as I had the Titanio. Its feels really responsive and I find myself riding it more than I first expected to, one day Corum next day Titanio, oh hum what a choice!! 
My Carbon Cross is aluminium main tubes with carbon rear stays and boy its a cracker!! This winter its has peformed fautlessly and feels really good despite the bomb proof forks and stays. Seriously if you can get oner for your winter/spring excursions!!
If you are thinking of getting a new top-end De Rosa then I'd save like mad and put the money into the XS over the King 3. In my mind I always felt that the carbon models were short lived wonders whereas the Titanio models are timeless and always seem to be so much more cherished!! (Rose tinited glasses there!!:aureola: )

Nitemare:thumbsup:


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## smokva

Nitemare said:


> !
> If you are thinking of getting a new top-end De Rosa then I'd save like mad and put the money into the XS over the King 3. In my mind I always felt that the carbon models were short lived wonders whereas the Titanio models are timeless and always seem to be so much more cherished!! (Rose tinited glasses there!!:aureola: )


Agreed, and thats why I ordered new black Neo Pro. Hmmm...wait...something is wrong here :blush2:


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## Nitemare

Hi there Ante,

Well if I was to order a De Rosa Carbon the Neo Pro would be the one. Like you I like the Classic lugs on it similar to my old TVT! 
Any more awesome trips planned? See you on DeRosanews forums.

Nige:thumbsup:


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## MERAKMAN

Nitemare said:


> Hi there Ante,
> 
> Well if I was to order a De Rosa Carbon the Neo Pro would be the one. Like you I like the Classic lugs on it similar to my old TVT!
> Any more awesome trips planned? See you on DeRosanews forums.
> 
> Nige:thumbsup:



This is great! The De Rosa boys are back, albeit on a different forum, but we're back!!

Bob:thumbsup:


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## Nitemare

Hi Merakman aka: Bob!!:thumbsup: 

I thought that was you all this time with your knowledgeable input on De Rosa stuff.
At least there seems to be a bit more interest here compared to the official forums 

Hope all is well and that you're managing some rides despite the cold weather??

Nigel


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## smokva

Nitemare said:


> Hi there Ante,
> 
> Well if I was to order a De Rosa Carbon the Neo Pro would be the one. Like you I like the Classic lugs on it similar to my old TVT!
> Any more awesome trips planned? See you on DeRosanews forums.
> 
> Nige:thumbsup:


Yes, I'll take my new Neo Pro this summer (July/August) to its homeland, to Italian Dolomites. I have few climbs there I still need to do, most of them being other sides of already climbed passes. Also I think I will catch few days around Lago di Garda in may, there are few passes I didn't do last time I was there.


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## MERAKMAN

Nitemare said:


> Hi Merakman aka: Bob!!:thumbsup:
> 
> I thought that was you all this time with your knowledgeable input on De Rosa stuff.
> At least there seems to be a bit more interest here compared to the official forums
> 
> Hope all is well and that you're managing some rides despite the cold weather??
> 
> Nigel


Yes it is I! Bobster in disguise! Alittle more attitude on here I would say..its all v polite and nicey nice on THE De Rosa forum. Fair enough. Its good to express yourself on here though and I'm sure Ante aka Smokva would agree 


Well I've not been out cycling too much due to being unable to ride in the icey conditions (wheel spin in my car in third and forth gears out where I cycle!) So far too dangerous to ride in. Though it is warming up abit recently, so hopefully will be out soon on my...Pinarello Ok, Ok stop throwing the cans..I know we're on the De Rosa forum! 

Have you been out much?


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## Nitemare

Hi you two!!

PINARELLO?? Oh Bob!!!:blush2: 

Well my cycling as been very limited due to similar icy roads and that I've had the flu/cold twice since Christmas!!! 

Still kept busy here watching Podium Girls etc!!:aureola: 

Hopefully soon back to fighting fitnessa nd with evenings starting to extend slowly so Spring beckons AT LAST!!!!!

C ya,

Nige


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## MERAKMAN

Nitemare said:


> Hi you two!!
> 
> PINARELLO?? Oh Bob!!!:blush2: Sorry!
> 
> Still kept busy here watching Podium Girls etc!!:aureola:



You've got my attention, which Podium girls?


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## MERAKMAN

smokva said:


> Yes, I'll take my new Neo Pro this summer (July/August) to its homeland, to Italian Dolomites. I have few climbs there I still need to do, most of them being other sides of already climbed passes. Also I think I will catch few days around Lago di Garda in may, there are few passes I didn't do last time I was there.



Ante I'm sure the views will be wonderful, but please just take pictures of your Neo Pro, I am obessed with that frame!!


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## Nitemare

Podium Girls Sub-Forum

Purely for R&D you understand!!!


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## smokva

MERAKMAN said:


> Ante I'm sure the views will be wonderful, but please just take pictures of your Neo Pro, I am obessed with that frame!!


Sure, first thing I'll do when it arrives 



MERAKMAN said:


> Yes it is I! Bobster in disguise! Alittle more attitude on here I would say..its all v polite and nicey nice on THE De Rosa forum. Fair enough. Its good to express yourself on here though and I'm sure Ante aka Smokva would agree


If you ask me, this is THE De Rosa forum 



MERAKMAN said:


> Well I've not been out cycling too much due to being unable to ride in the icey conditions (wheel spin in my car in third and forth gears out where I cycle!) So far too dangerous to ride in. Though it is warming up abit recently, so hopefully will be out soon on my...Pinarello Ok, Ok stop throwing the cans..I know we're on the De Rosa forum!


I just came back from my first ride this year :thumbsup: This was basicly first day in this year which allowed the riding. It was all -15°C and snow till now. Half an hour after I came back it started raining, I guess i caught the very last moment to go out for some time 

And Pinarello...ehmm...you did see those Pinarellos here on RBR forum basicly falling apart for no obvious reason. Those broken frames look scary to me...would never buy an carbon Pinarello after what I saw there. One thing is crack at the chainstay and something totally different is when frame splits in two...scary. BE CAREFUL WITH IT.


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## MERAKMAN

smokva said:


> Sure, first thing I'll do when it arrives
> 
> 
> 
> If you ask me, this is THE De Rosa forum
> 
> 
> 
> I just came back from my first ride this year :thumbsup: This was basicly first day in this year which allowed the riding. It was all -15°C and snow till now. Half an hour after I came back it started raining, I guess i caught the very last moment to go out for some time
> 
> And Pinarello...ehmm...you did see those Pinarellos here on RBR forum basicly falling apart for no obvious reason. Those broken frames look scary to me...would never buy an carbon Pinarello after what I saw there. One thing is crack at the chainstay and something totally different is when frame splits in two...scary. BE CAREFUL WITH IT.


Hey don't worry Ante ski, my Pina is a steel frame and weights a quart of a tonne, its no carbon light weight. Yeah I saw the trend about the guys F4:13; very possible for carbon to break...nothings perfect. Though I wouldn't let it put you off carbon, its very rare they do break, but when they do it creates alot of discussion (understandably too). We just have to be careful when out riding, whether on carbon or steel etc.

U both have made me feel better, I've only been out once since Christmas, its been like an ice rink out there...bricking it in my car, let alone on two wheels! 

Nige...am on that link! tanks and I hope you get well from your man flu soon! take care.


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## barry1021

sneyer said:


> Yeah, I'd almost kill to get my hands on a 55cm Titanio. They are pretty much the hardest of the old De Rosa's to find. I've only ever seen a couple of them.
> 
> BTW, thanks for posting that.


http://www.serotta.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55303


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## nickb4

That will fit you Barry ;-)


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## barry1021

nickb4 said:


> That will fit you Barry ;-)


Already have my ONE Ti bike, the Moots, I am done, Nick....

b21

OK, who bought it? Step forward, please.


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