# Sapim CX-Sprint spokes



## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

There's a new Sapim spoke coming out for retail/aftermarket - it's the CX-Sprint, a less expensive version of the CX-Ray.

Specs - 

CX-Sprint - 1.2mm x 2.2mm
CX-Ray - 0.9mm x 2.2mm

And about 40% less money than the CX-Ray. So if you like the ease of building with bladed spokes (you can see any twist and hold the spoke from twisting) but don't care about the slight aero advantage of the CX-Ray then this is a decent cost saving. 

I have some here on my desk. They look the same quality as CX-Ray but a wee bit more chunky.


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## rcb78 (Jun 15, 2008)

Same weight category as Races?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

I don't know but I'll assume they are. I can't find any reliable comparison specs.


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## Orfitinho (Oct 20, 2012)

The weight is ~334 gramms: 64 pcs, 260mm. 

In the middle between D-Light (303 gramms) and Race (363 gramms).

Weight of Laser/CX-Ray : 273 gramms.


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## changingleaf (Aug 20, 2009)

This looks like a really good option for building a great wheel and keeping the price down. Here's the info for that spoke: (a little lighter than the Sapim Race)

Similar to the CX-Ray but stiffer. Higher stiffness is due to more material and therefore the spoke is slightly heavier. But still the elliptic shape of 2,3/1,2 fits in all standard hub holes. Some professionals use the CX-Sprint on the drive side and the CX-Ray on the non drive side. This shall bring a more equal stiffness on right and left side in one wheel.

- No more extra hub hole design; the hub manufacturer's guarantee is unaffected.
- Aerodynamic eliptic spoke.
- Produced from high-tensile, fatigue-resistant 18/8 stainless steel conforming to the Sapim quality standard specifications.
- Special alloy treatment and sophisticated production.
- Diameter: 2.0 -(2.25 x 1.25) - 2.0
- Length: 135-310 mm
- Weight: 334 g (64 x 260 mm)
- Strength on middle section: 1430 N/mm2


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

IMHO, as well as my n00bie wheelbuilder opinion, I didn't see the advantage of building with bladed spokes. Yes, I understand the theoretical advantage of seeing when you're winding up. However, when I was working on truing one of my factory wheels, the bladed spokes on these wound far more than the DT Competitions I used for my build. In fact, they wound so much, I had to hold them while turning for fear they would deform.

In fairness, there could be other factors. I used oil on the spoke threads of my build and used DT Pro-Lock nipples. I have no idea if the factory wheels even had oil on the spoke threads which could have been a factor.


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## changingleaf (Aug 20, 2009)

Yes, it would be virtually impossible to get a wheel up to proper tension without holding these blades spokes from turning. There is no amount of lube that will resist the friction at high tension. Since they are thinner than a round spoke they do twist much easier and because they are bladed the can be easily held in place with a bladed spoke holder while turning.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Orfitinho said:


> The weight is ~334 gramms: 64 pcs, 260mm.
> In the middle between D-Light (303 gramms) and Race (363 gramms).
> Weight of Laser/CX-Ray : 273 gramms.


I've found some disjointed (ie: not all on the same site) info so I tried to ignore most of it.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

changingleaf said:


> Yes, it would be virtually impossible to get a wheel up to proper tension without holding these blades spokes from turning. There is no amount of lube that will resist the friction at high tension. Since they are thinner than a round spoke they do twist much easier and because they are bladed the can be easily held in place with a bladed spoke holder while turning.



Oh yes, they can definitely be held in place. I bought a couple of those Shimano specific wrenches with a spoke wrench at one end and a bladed spoke holder at the other. Who designed that thing? You have to buy two because you obviously can't use both ends at once! :mad2: However, they're cheap enough. It's just the idea.

My point from before was that there was very little windup with the standard 20/18/20 spokes - 1/8 turn or less.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Lombard said:


> Oh yes, they can definitely be held in place. I bought a couple of those Shimano specific wrenches with a spoke wrench at one end and a bladed spoke holder at the other. Who designed that thing? You have to buy two because you obviously can't use both ends at once! :mad2: However, they're cheap enough. It's just the idea.
> My point from before was that there was very little windup with the standard 20/18/20 spokes - 1/8 turn or less.


For most of us, the best feature of CX-Rays (and now CX-Sprint) is the ease at which we can deal with twist. Any aero benefit is a moot point. But of course you need something to hold the spoke and Sapim took care of that too (as did other sources). Mine is shown on my wheel tools page -
Mike T

BikeHubStore.com has them.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Mike T. said:


> For most of us, the best feature of CX-Rays (and now CX-Sprint) is the ease at which we can deal with twist. Any aero benefit is a moot point. But of course you need something to hold the spoke and Sapim took care of that too (as did other sources). Mine is shown on my wheel tools page -
> Mike T
> 
> BikeHubStore.com has them.



Your point is well taken, Mike. For me though, I did not find spoke twist objectionable. I used your flag method and backed off until the flags were where they started. Of course, some may argue there is the extra time to install and remove the flags.

My point from before was how much greater the twist is with bladed spokes.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Lombard said:


> Your point is well taken, Mike. For me though, I did not find spoke twist objectionable. I used your flag method and backed off until the flags were where they started. Of course, some may argue there is the extra time to install and remove the flags.
> My point from before was how much greater the twist is with bladed spokes.


Time? IMO those people who need tape flags to indicate twist should not be concerned about time. Those who need to be concerned about wheelbuilding time don't need tape flags.

I'm a hybrid - I'm not concerned about wheelbuilding time and I don't need tape flags.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Mike T. said:


> Time? IMO those people who need tape flags to indicate twist should not be concerned about time. Those who need to be concerned about wheelbuilding time don't need tape flags.


Exactly.



Mike T. said:


> ...and I don't need tape flags.


Remember, you have been building wheels for how many decades? I'm a n00bie who just finished my first build, so I still need tape flags. 

The big question, how many successful wheel builds does one need in order to graduate from n00bie to beginner?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Lombard said:


> The big question, how many successful wheel builds does one need in order to graduate from n00bie to beginner?


Eleventeen, give or take a few.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Mike T. said:


> Eleventeen, give or take a few.


Oh man! I'm sorry I asked. :mad2:


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

Is the cross section oval or more rectangular?
I always found CX-Rays to be more rectangular with sharp edges.
I always prefer DT Aerolites as it seems to have nicer shape and better quality.
Never broke one, but have broken a few CX-Rays.


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## bluesky6 (Jul 23, 2013)

Thanks for sharing. It's good to know that we've more options.

I'll probably still stick to CX-rays because of weight altho' cost is painful.

I've built a few wheelsets with Lasers and had no problems with twist/windup (or flags) but did really take my time with the builds.


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## Mackers (Dec 29, 2009)

Sorry, but this was news in 2010.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

How do you guys hold round spokes from twisting (or actually just spinning), on a straight through pull spoke/hub?


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

jnbrown said:


> I always found CX-Rays to be more rectangular with sharp edges.



I just went through examining and retruing my factory wheels with bladed spokes. Stress relieving is mighty painful with those sharp edges! Maybe I just need thicker gloves.


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## Orfitinho (Oct 20, 2012)

duriel said:


> How do you guys hold round spokes from twisting (or actually just spinning), on a straight through pull spoke/hub?


So far I have build 5 wheels with straight pull hubs and never had any problem with spinning spokes.

It seems to me, that only a tiny bit of tension is necessary to prevent them from spinning.


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## dgaddis1 (Sep 27, 2008)

Orfitinho said:


> So far I have build 5 wheels with straight pull hubs and never had any problem with spinning spokes.
> 
> It seems to me, that only a tiny bit of tension is necessary to prevent them from spinning.


I've rebuilt a used hub with straight pull round spokes and I'll NEVER do it again. They spun like crazy until the tension was pretty high. I have a tool to hold them in place, but it doesn't work all that well.


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## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

Specialized makes some MTB wheels with straight pull thin round spokes at very high tension. They must also use some kind of thread lock. During Breck Epic we always have a few brought in for truing and usually can't accomplish much because of spoke twist.

DT also came out with a cheaper, thicker aero spoke like this recently. If I didn't get industry pricing I'd use'em.


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## Mackers (Dec 29, 2009)

The DT Swiss Aero Comp has also been around for years, as have the Alpina DB17, the Pillar 1423 and the CN Mac 434. I'm sure Wheelsmith has a comparable offering.


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## woz (Dec 26, 2005)

The Cx-Sprint has been around for more than 5 years, along with another one called the Cx-Speed. The sprint has an actual dimension of 1.25x2.25. It's just that these have really never been published spokes by Sapim and were only available by special order. Seems like Sapim has decided to begin to promote this spoke as a response to an increase in the use of the Aerocomp. It's a pretty ideal spoke to be used on the drive side of a rear wheel with a CxRay on the non-drive. The Cx-Sprint isn't exactly a bladed match for the Sapim Race, it comes in somewhere between the D-light and Race being more towards the D-light side. A quick back of the napkin comparison of the Sapim spokes would be as follows from the thinnest and lightest up to the thicker and heavier. 

CxRay, Cross section 1.56 (4.36 grams)
Laser, Cross section 1.77 (4.42 grams)
D-light, Cross section 2.13 (4.8 grams)
CxSprint, Cross section 2.21 (5.21 grams)
Race, Cross section 2.54 (5.67 grams)


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Lombard said:


> Stress relieving is mighty painful with those sharp edges!


Press on the flat side. Much nicer!


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

rruff said:


> Press on the flat side. Much nicer!


Huh? So you're saying press up and down rather than squeeze spokes together?


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Lombard said:


> Huh? So you're saying press up and down rather than squeeze spokes together?


Lay the wheel down on a soft surface and press down on spokes with both hands at 180 degree opposite. Move around the whole wheel (each spoke will get pressed twice). Flip it over and do the other side. True wheel and balance tension. Repeat 3 times.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

rruff said:


> Lay the wheel down on a soft surface and press down on spokes with both hands at 180 degree opposite. Move around the whole wheel (each spoke will get pressed twice). Flip it over and do the other side. True wheel and balance tension. Repeat 3 times.



Interesting. Can't say I've ever seen this in any wheelbuilding books or write-ups, but I see no reason why it shouldn't work. Thanks!


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

Ron builds great wheels.....if he says it will work, trust him to steer you straight. I have wheels he built for me 9 years ago using CX-rays that have never had a spoke wrench touch them so I know he can true a wheel and it stays that way.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

I've done it like that pretty much since the beginning. It's hard to get enough force squeezing, at least for me.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

rruff said:


> I've done it like that pretty much since the beginning. It's hard to get enough force squeezing, at least for me.



Interesting. What part of your hands do you press with? Fingers? Heel of palms?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Lombard said:


> Interesting. Can't say I've ever seen this in any wheelbuilding books or write-ups, but I see no reason why it shouldn't work. Thanks!


You've never read my site then.

But never mind, do this - spin wheel fast, feed in a cucumber. Clean up the slices, re-true and ride.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Mike T. said:


> You've never read my site then.
> 
> But never mind, do this - spin wheel fast, feed in a cucumber. Clean up the slices, re-true and ride.




Oh, I've read your site for sure. Don't know how I missed that. It isn't in your 6 methods of stress relief.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Lombard said:


> Oh, I've read your site for sure. Don't know how I missed that. It isn't in your 6 methods of stress relief.


It's Method 6 of the "Stress Relief" section.


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## Bridgestone (Sep 6, 2007)

Mike T. said:


> There's a new Sapim spoke coming out for retail/aftermarket - it's the CX-Sprint, a less expensive version of the CX-Ray.
> 
> Specs -
> 
> ...


Is this the spoke you are referring to? 
CX | Sapim


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Mike T. said:


> It's Method 6 of the "Stress Relief" section.



Yes, I do Method 2 and 6 after each tensioning or truing round. But this sounds different from what Ron does. Your Method 6 is:



Mike T. said:


> *Method 6.* Place wheel flat on floor with the rim part nearest to you touching the floor. A piece of cardboard or carpet will prevent the QR from scratches. With hands at 9 & 3 o'clock, press down gently but firmly and quickly. Rotate wheel 1/8th turn & repeat for one full turn of the wheel. Turn wheel over and repeat. The pings you hear are spokes unwinding. But if you have identified and removed all twist, as outlined above in the section "Spoke Twist......" there shouldn't be any left. Check for true afterwards. *Repeat this after each stage or "round"*. You can't repeat this one too often.




Correct me if I am wrong, but the implication is that you are pressing at 9 and 3 o'clock on the* rim*, not the spokes.

Compare that to what Ron wrote:



rruff said:


> "Lay the wheel down on a soft surface and press down on *spokes *with both hands at 180 degree opposite. Move around the whole wheel (each spoke will get pressed twice). Flip it over and do the other side. True wheel and balance tension. Repeat 3 times."


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

If that is the fine details of the discussion and Ron isn't here to explain, I can say that in 54 years of wheelbuilding, I've never pressed down on "spokes" at 9 & 3 or 180 degs apart and having read all the known books on wheelbuilding, I don't ever remember hearing this (pressing spokes) being done.

But I'm sure if that's what Ron does, then it will work fine. I just use the more (IMO) "traditional" method of rim pressing. Lots of pro wheelbuilders (Roger Musson is one) just squeeze parallel pairs of spokes. And that's all they do for stress relief.

That being said, I think our two methods serve the same purpose. This fine quote From Ergott says it all (this is also on my site) -

Wheelbuilder Eric (Ergott) from RBR.com came up with this beaut of a quote on his method of spoke optimization -* "I don't care about the physics of it. What I do makes the wheels stay true for a long time."*


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Absolutely not. That spoke has been around for ages and at 2.8 mm wide, it will require hub slotting. Compare specs.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Mike T. said:


> If that is the fine details of the discussion and Ron isn't here to explain, I can say that in 54 years of wheelbuilding, I've never pressed down on "spokes" at 9 & 3 or 180 degs apart and having read all the known books on wheelbuilding, I don't ever remember hearing this (pressing spokes) being done.
> 
> But I'm sure if that's what Ron does, then it will work fine. I just use the more (IMO) "traditional" method of rim pressing. Lots of pro wheelbuilders (Roger Musson is one) just squeeze parallel pairs of spokes. And that's all they do for stress relief.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the clarification, Mike. One thing I have noticed is that often, if Method 2 doesn't throw the wheel back out of true, Method 6 will - a sure sign that it does what it's supposed to do - unless it is in two large waves which isn't a good sign.

One other thing I started doing that one of my bike shop mechanics does, is squeeze the *non-parallel* pairs in addition to the parallel pairs of spokes. Jobst Brandt sheds some light on doing this as making a permanent bend as the spoke leaves the nipple, so it won't flex there. It makes sense that it also will shorten the distance, hence throwing the wheel out of true.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Lombard said:


> Thanks for the clarification, Mike. One thing I have noticed is that often, if Method 2 doesn't throw the wheel back out of true, Method 6 will - a sure sign that it does what it's supposed to do - unless it is in two large waves which isn't a good sign.
> 
> One other thing I started doing that one of my bike shop mechanics does, is squeeze the *non-parallel* pairs in addition to the parallel pairs of spokes. Jobst Brandt sheds some light on doing this as making a permanent bend as the spoke leaves the nipple, so it won't flex there. It makes sense that it also will shorten the distance, hence throwing the wheel out of true.


Lom, if you do what I suggest (and every reasonable method of spoke optimization I know of is there, without similar duplicates) and put some muscle into it then you will have a "no touch until rim bent" wheelbuild. It's never failed me. But yes there are slightly different ways of doing things. And that's ok too. They work fine.


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## Bridgestone (Sep 6, 2007)

Mike T. said:


> Absolutely not. That spoke has been around for ages and at 2.8 mm wide, it will require hub slotting. Compare specs.


Thus my question , on Sapim's website I only see that spoke and the CX-ray, no CX sprint?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Bridgestone said:


> Thus my question , on Sapim's website I only see that spoke and the CX-ray, no CX sprint?


I've been checking for months. Maybe they're too busy making spokes.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Mike T. said:


> Lom, if you do what I suggest (and every reasonable method of spoke optimization I know of is there, without similar duplicates) and put some muscle into it then you will have a "no touch until rim bent" wheelbuild. It's never failed me. But yes there are slightly different ways of doing things. And that's ok too. They work fine.


I did. And so far, so good.  Only 160 miles on my wheels so far. Still as true as before the virgin ride.  

Now I just have 54 more years and x wheelsets to go before I'm as good as you.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Lombard said:


> Now I just have 54 more years and x wheelsets to go before I'm as good as you.


Everyone usually reaches their maximum potential Lom so don't be too upset if you don't make it.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Mike T. said:


> Everyone usually reaches their maximum potential Lom so don't be too upset if you don't make it.


Well when you consider that in 54 more years, I'll be over 100, if I'm still building wheels, I think someone else will be stress relieving them for me. 

Not upset at all when you consider that only a year ago, I couldn't have even imagined I would ever build a successful wheelset.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

I see the Sapim CX-Sprint are now listed and priced at ThorUSA.com. Third spoke model down -

Sapim Spokes and Nipples


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## November Dave (Dec 7, 2011)

We just got our first delivery of them recently. My initial impression on pulling them out of the bag was that it's hard to notice the difference between them and CX Rays. You notice that they're thicker, but in a build you would think they're the same unless you really scrutinized things. 

The per spoke weight is just about 1g more than a CX Ray. Make of that what you will, some people will call it nothing and for others it's the end of the world.

We've build up a few test builds and immediately we're going to use them in similar applications as we now use D-Lights - drive sides of rears and disc sides of fronts. I very much consider the CX Sprint to be to a CX Ray what a D-Light is to a Laser, as opposed to being more like what a Race is to a Laser. 

They're still way more money than Lasers and D-Lights, and way way way more than Races, but they've got a place in the spectrum for sure.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

November Dave said:


> [CX-Sprint have]......a place in the spectrum for sure.


The more I think about them, the more I agree with you Dave. They're the "poor man's" CX-Ray; the sturdier DS (Drive Side rear and Disc Side front) spoke [to compliment CX-Ray] for those who go that route; the "gateway" aero spoke to CX-Ray.



> They're still way more money than Lasers and D-Lights, and way way way more than Races


Sure but we do that kind of stuff whenever we opt for more expensive parts than 105; whenever we buy more than a $1200 (approx) bicycle; more than $50 rims; more than $120 hubsets. And who bothers about the cost of a King headset if they simply lust after a King headset?


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