# TDF after stage 2 Cavandish and Sagan back on old Venge



## bj.bonnette (Jul 16, 2011)

What is the deal. Do they not like them? or is the bike not ready for primetime?


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

I was wondering the same thing. Shocked to see Cav was back on last year's green/white venge during today's stage.


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## bj.bonnette (Jul 16, 2011)

He was on it yesterday as well. Sagan was on his Camo Venge.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

bj.bonnette said:


> He was on it yesterday as well. Sagan was on his Camo Venge.


There is something on the other new Venge thread about it. VeloNews journalist Caley Fretz tweeted yesterday that Cavendish doesn't like the brakes, and therefore won't ride the bike in rain or mountains.
But today was neither, and yet it looks like he's still on the old bike. 

Still....Maybe there's an issue, maybe its just Cavendish being Cavendish. He sometimes seems a little irrational about his equipment.... like everyone else.
Of course, it's more significant that both he and Sagan were on old venges yesterday. Didnt notice what Sagan was on today.
If there's a bug, Specialized will surely fix it.

Cavendish has pointed at tomorrow as clearly a sprint stage, will be interesting to see what he's on for that.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

They gave the bike to two riders. Neither one will ride it anymore. Cav says the brakes are dangerous, no quotes from Sagan yet on it. Their actions speak louder than any words though. You won't see it in the mountains either, it's double the weight of a climbing bike.


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## taodemon (Mar 17, 2014)

I found pictures of Sagan on the old venge for today (stage 6) as well. Didn't see pictures of Cav but from what others are saying he was on the old one again as well.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

So, what happened to those "5 minutes on a 40k TT"? That would make it 20 minutes on a 100-mile stage. One might think that this would give a rider a bit of an advantage. Or perhaps it was all marketing BS, eh? No, that can't be...


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## taodemon (Mar 17, 2014)

I don't think it was all marketing BS, but there is more than just time savings involved in getting wins. 

Them riding the old ones vs the new ones seems like it is due to other issues (we have heard brakes but who knows for sure), which isn't a good sign for the bike. Aero (or any other benefit) is meaningless if the negatives outweigh the benefits which seems to be the case right now.


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

Whether it's a "new" car in auto racing or a new bicycle for the UCI... It takes time for the platform to develop. Lots of tweaking will be done until the platform is perfected..

As in every sport, there will be growing pains. But I was shocked to see Mike and his boys push out the new Venge without any race proven data. Especially for the biggest race of the sport. 

We know the new ride was WINtunnel tested and proven... But did they factor the new frame into real world race situations?

Since the cat is out of the hat... I'm sure Spesh is already redeveloping areas that needs attention.

Specialized has some of the tops riders in the game. I'd like to see Sagan, Alberto, Cav, and Kwaito take some stage wins... 

I'm kind of angry that the Gorilla keeps winning all those finish line sprints haha


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

eugenetsang said:


> Whether it's a "new" car in auto racing or a new bicycle for the UCI... It takes time for the platform to develop. Lots of tweaking will be done until the platform is perfected..
> 
> As in every sport, there will be growing pains. But I was shocked to see Mike and his boys push out the new Venge without any race proven data. Especially for the biggest race of the sport.
> 
> ...


Eugene.... don't you follow Crank Addicts on Instagram. They didn't just pull this bike out for the TDF, it was ridden at the Tour de Suisse by both Cav and Sagan and Sagan took 2 wins on it.


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

TricrossRich said:


> Eugene.... don't you follow Crank Addicts on Instagram. They didn't just pull this bike out for the TDF, it was ridden at the Tour de Suisse by both Cav and Sagan and Sagan took 2 wins on it.


Rich, you're right. I stand corrected. Forgot Spesh had brought out the new Venge for the TdS. But after one race, i do not think they have the best data to play around with. Especially before the biggest race of the year.

But honestly, if Greipel was in the TdS, he'd whoop Cav and Sagan (even though they were on the new venge)! That guy's legs are MASSIVE! Ok.. probably give Sagan a run for his money... He came close during this years TdF and racing against Greipel.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

Well, it looked plenty fast under Cavendish today. He didnt seem to need any brakes.


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## taodemon (Mar 17, 2014)

thumper8888 said:


> Well, it looked plenty fast under Cavendish today. He didnt seem to need any brakes.


I only get to watch at home, from work just the live feed. That said the pictures I've seen had both Cav and Sagan back on the new venge today.


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## bj.bonnette (Jul 16, 2011)

taodemon said:


> I only get to watch at home, from work just the live feed. That said the pictures I've seen had both Cav and Sagan back on the new venge today.


Could be a matter of spesh telling them when to ride the bike. They only want them on it on the super flat sprinter stages. Who knows.


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

Not to turn this into a TdF thread. But I am super stoked to see Cav win with the new Venge. Specialized must be elated to see their new baby take 1st in this year's TdF! Now only if Tinkoff Saxo can get Sagan up there in yellow! He's is almost there!


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

taodemon said:


> I only get to watch at home, from work just the live feed. That said the pictures I've seen had both Cav and Sagan back on the new venge today.


Well, it must suck, because you saw where Sagan finished ;-)
I can guess what photo will be on the Specialized Venge page in about 10 minutes.


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## dcorn (Sep 1, 2011)

MMsRepBike said:


> They gave the bike to two riders. Neither one will ride it anymore. Cav says the brakes are dangerous, no quotes from Sagan yet on it. Their actions speak louder than any words though. You won't see it in the mountains either, it's double the weight of a climbing bike.


I heard a lot of stuff about the original Giant Propel V-brakes (carbon arms I think?) being pretty sketchy also. One of the pro teams had a company machine some aluminum arms as replacement and it fixed the problem. Then Giant started doing the same thing on production bikes. It's just R&D testing, if something needs to be fixed, it will be. 

Weighs 2x a climbing bike? Preeeeeetty sure the pros aren't riding the tour in anything close to a 30 lb bike. Maybe a lb more, but it's not meant for climbing anyway, so of course you won't see it in the mountains.


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## taodemon (Mar 17, 2014)

Sagan was already using a Tarmac for the mountains in the tour of cali, so there is a good chance he will keep doing that for the TDF. I'm not sure if Cav ever uses a Tarmac but he will also likely be on whatever he typically uses for climbing stages. 

The ViAS does weigh about 0.9kg more than the uci limit (14.99lbs / 6.8kg).



> Complete bike weight for a 56cm S-Works Venge ViAS Di2 complete bike is 16.9lb / 7.7 kg.


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## 1Butcher (Mar 15, 2011)

Pirx said:


> So, what happened to those "5 minutes on a 40k TT"? That would make it 20 minutes on a 100-mile stage. One might think that this would give a rider a bit of an advantage. Or perhaps it was all marketing BS, eh? No, that can't be...


What? Wrong thread. Go to the aero thread and spread your comments there.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

One other quirk at TDF is Cavendish is not running the Roval 64's that the bike is being touted as having been designed around but instead is running older Roval 60.


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## bj.bonnette (Jul 16, 2011)

well the team was provided all the wheels for the season at the beginning of the season, with the wheels being so much wider you would have issues with brakes if there were 2 different widths of wheels. This what any wheel can go on any bike.



thumper8888 said:


> One other quirk at TDF is Cavendish is not running the Roval 64's that the bike is being touted as having been designed around but instead is running older Roval 60.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

bj.bonnette said:


> well the team was provided all the wheels for the season at the beginning of the season, with the wheels being so much wider you would have issues with brakes if there were 2 different widths of wheels. This what any wheel can go on any bike.


Yeah, that's surely the reason. It does seem that it partly undercuts the logic behind using new bike at TDF, given the seamless connection between wheel and frame that the company portrays.
Still, I'm sure it's faster than the old Venge even with the 60s.
On a semi-related note, the frameset is back up on the Specialized website as a purchase option... it had popped up, then been taken off.


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## taodemon (Mar 17, 2014)

thumper8888 said:


> Yeah, that's surely the reason. It does seem that it partly undercuts the logic behind using new bike at TDF, given the seamless connection between wheel and frame that the company portrays.
> Still, I'm sure it's faster than the old Venge even with the 60s.
> On a semi-related note, the frameset is back up on the Specialized website as a purchase option... it had popped up, then been taken off.


With a $400 price jump on the frame and S Works model and a $200 increase for the Pro.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

taodemon said:


> With a $400 price jump on the frame and S Works model and a $200 increase for the Pro.


Mmmm. Well, I have nothing to say on that topic, since it has been made abundantly clear by the fanboys that there are no valid grounds for ever questioning Specialized's pricing decisions, or even discussing them intelligently. In our lowly role as consumers, it is solely our role to buy or not buy. No thinking can be involved.
To paraphrase several apparent Ayn Rand aficionados here, Specialized charges what people will pay. And clearly the company found that its fine new design, in combination with an effective marketing campaign, resulted in more demand than expected, so it was a good time to skim more cream from early adopters.

Someone else wrote that it was nice that Yu comes here and offers wise, common-sense answers to some hard questions. I agree with that. It's terrific.
But he also wrote Yu doesnt have to come here to protect bike sales. Not true. That company and several others at top of the industry, pay people to monitor these boards and various social media and get on top of anything that starts to emerge as a marketing challenge. They have various ways of dealing with various kinds of issues. But they're watching.
That's why Yu posts here. They probably pick him to do it because not only does he know the stuff, but he's personable, candid and comes across as trustworthy. In short, a good, effective communicator.


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## 1Butcher (Mar 15, 2011)

thumper8888 said:


> Companies [for profit] charges what people will pay. And clearly the company found that its fine new design, in combination with an effective marketing campaign, resulted in more demand than expected, so it was a good time to skim more cream from early adopters.


FIFY. Specialized is no more different than every other business. Questioning Specialized for a normal business decision seems odd to me. Remember, it works the other way too. How many items are brought to market only to find out they did not sell. They they have to lower the price to get them off the shelves? 

As for Chris responding to all of the threads, Do you really believe he is the one behind the keyboard? As a skeptic that it appears you are, I would think you would point it out it could be the janitor.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

1Butcher said:


> FIFY. Specialized is no more different than every other business. Questioning Specialized for a normal business decision seems odd to me. Remember, it works the other way too. How many items are brought to market only to find out they did not sell. They they have to lower the price to get them off the shelves?
> 
> As for Chris responding to all of the threads, Do you really believe he is the one behind the keyboard? As a skeptic that it appears you are, I would think you would point it out it could be the janitor.


Not questioning it, just underlining it. They can do what they want, charge what they want and I can make observations on it as I want.
I mean, seriously, at some point, the price a company charges for a bike is a legitimate topic. At no point have I suggested they don't have a right to price things as they wish. It's America. With free markets. And free speech.
It's ludicrous to suggest that it's not worth comment when they nearly double a frameset price. At what point am I allowed to question the value-to-benefit? Surely I'm allowed at some point. $6,000? $20,000? $60,000?
I do actually believe they are probably pricing it the right way for their interests. On evidence, starting with the size of the company and its market share, they make solid business decisions, and they surely have pretty good data as to what they can/should charge.
But forums shouldn't be solely for drooling and sucking up, and it's reasonable to believe that their business decisions aren't good for all their customers.

I do firmly believe it's Yu doing the typing. Probably he has an editor or someone else polishing and signing off... it's a big company and they want to be careful.
But watch the win tunnel stuff. He is a highly effective communicator... some folks have also suggested he's more a marketer than an aerodynamics expert, but that's not accurate either.
Looks to be a sharp hire all the way around, probably the only reason a bike company can get a guy like that is he likes bikes.
Specialized is in some ways a monolithic company, but one of the more attractive things about the way they do business is giving people like Yu and D'alusio free rein to pursue big ideas, and give them public credit for their work.
I doubt seriously theyve got some PR hack impersonating him. The answers, too, are pretty solid and knowledgeable. They look and feel authentic.


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## packetloss (Jun 2, 2014)

Well, I still think they have some explaining to do on why Cav and Sagan won't regularly ride the new Venge. Geometry wise it's pretty darn close to the old one. It seem perhaps the comments about the brakes are spot on. Considering how much publicity is at stake, if there was a better final version of those brakes, it would have been sent to them by now. Probably best waiting for V2 of this new Venge. Let others be the guinea pigs for these new brakes and see if there is a recall.


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## cmschmie (Apr 20, 2012)

If Cav or Sagan win in Paris on the new bike orders are going to skyrocket.


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

packetloss said:


> Well, I still think they have some explaining to do on why Cav and Sagan won't regularly ride the new Venge. Geometry wise it's pretty darn close to the old one.


I might be hallucinating.. But pretty sure I heard on NBCSN or GCN that the reason why the teams were on/off with the new Venge was bc... The Specialized higher ups knew about Cav and Sagan had issues with the new ride. 

So basically they were only willing to ride it when the conditions were ideal. But since Specialized dumped a ton of money into the VIAS program, the bosses were pushing the teams to use (only when conditions allowed).


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

https://youtu.be/ceDXIqhVf7k?t=50s


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

cmschmie said:


> If Cav or Sagan win in Paris on the new bike orders are going to skyrocket.


How does this sound for promo material:

"VENGE...because 2nd place ought to be good enough."


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

cmschmie said:


> If Cav or Sagan win in Paris on the new bike orders are going to skyrocket.


Yes. The final stage... If Sagan and Cavendish are only willing to ride it on a flat, mostly-ceremonial stage where they don't have to use the brakes often, there is some explaining to be done.
Maybe as Yu suggested the brake issue has been solved by getting Cav production parts.... But I don't think he has been on it in the mountains, and I know Sagan hasn't, though it surely would have helped him on that stellar descent a couple days ago.
In at least one interview Sagan said he had swapped it out for the old one before a climb because of the weight.
Despite all that data about aero being more important than weight, it's not going to look good if the pros keep saying that it's too porky for climbing.


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## taodemon (Mar 17, 2014)

thumper8888 said:


> Yes. The final stage... If Sagan and Cavendish are only willing to ride it on a flat, mostly-ceremonial stage where they don't have to use the brakes often, there is some explaining to be done.
> Maybe as Yu suggested the brake issue has been solved by getting Cav production parts.... But I don't think he has been on it in the mountains, and I know Sagan hasn't, though it surely would have helped him on that stellar descent a couple days ago.
> In at least one interview Sagan said he had swapped it out for the old one before a climb because of the weight.
> Despite all that data about aero being more important than weight, it's not going to look good if the pros keep saying that it's too porky for climbing.


Well it does come in about 2lbs higher than the UCI limit and I'm pretty sure most pro bikes can hit that limit without too much trouble so it wouldn't make much sense to use a bike 2 lbs heavier on the stages with a lot of climbing. 

While I haven't been watching as much over these mountain stages as I was the first week, Sagan has ridden a Tarmac for climbing stages in the past and was on a Roubaix for the cobbles. Cav on the other hand seems to use his reguler venge for just about everything.

I would expect to see both on the ViAS for the final stage though.

There are situations where aero is better and others where weight outweighs it. Mountain stages weight would be the more important factor if the aero bike can't get down to that uci limit which the ViAS can't.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

taodemon said:


> Well it does come in about 2lbs higher than the UCI limit and I'm pretty sure most pro bikes can hit that limit without too much trouble so it wouldn't make much sense to use a bike 2 lbs heavier on the stages with a lot of climbing.
> 
> While I haven't been watching as much over these mountain stages as I was the first week, Sagan has ridden a Tarmac for climbing stages in the past and was on a Roubaix for the cobbles. Cav on the other hand seems to use his reguler venge for just about everything.
> 
> ...


Sagan andt Cavendish are both the old Venge for the final stage. Weight is not a factor on this stage at all.
So Sagan says its too heavy for mountains, Cavendish said earlier he wouldnt ride it in wet or mountains... Yu says it was fit issues -- which neither of the riders cited -- and pre-production parts being an issue for Cavendish, which Cav said nothing about
And now its an issue for both riders on a stage that for all practical purposes is board flat. It is wet but still, this is a sprinter's delight when only aero matters.
Are the brakes that bad?
Specialized has some serious explaining to do.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

cmschmie said:


> If Cav or Sagan win in Paris on the new bike orders are going to skyrocket.


I hear that Ridley makes a good bike.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

MMsRepBike said:


> I hear that Ridley makes a good bike.


Venge, because 7th place in Paris ought to be good enough for anyone


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

Marc said:


> Venge, because 7th place in Paris ought to be good enough for anyone


You mean 6th and 7th. On old Venges.
Which isn't good enough for Cav. According to the contract talk, he's heading for either a Cervelo S5 or one of those new aero Madones... that apparently were light enough to ride over the mountains and had good enough brakes to use on flat stages.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

MMsRepBike said:


> I hear that Ridley makes a good bike.


the Gorilla would agree with 4 wins


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## cmschmie (Apr 20, 2012)

cmschmie said:


> If Cav or Sagan win in Paris on the new bike orders are going to skyrocket.


This statement was not about the "supposed" awesomeness of the bike, just the reaction of the general public when a new super duper awesome bike comes out. Obviously the new Venge has serious issues when their two big sprinters don't want to use it for a parade.



thumper8888 said:


> Yes. The final stage... If Sagan and Cavendish are only willing to ride it on a flat, mostly-ceremonial stage where they don't have to use the brakes often, there is some explaining to be done.
> Maybe as Yu suggested the brake issue has been solved by getting Cav production parts.... But I don't think he has been on it in the mountains, and I know Sagan hasn't, though it surely would have helped him on that stellar descent a couple days ago.
> In at least one interview Sagan said he had swapped it out for the old one before a climb because of the weight.
> Despite all that data about aero being more important than weight, it's not going to look good if the pros keep saying that it's too porky for climbing.


I really am curious what the issues are with the bike.


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## carbonLORD (Aug 2, 2004)

It's about as popular as the Impec was for BMC.


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## taodemon (Mar 17, 2014)

cmschmie said:


> This statement was not about the "supposed" awesomeness of the bike, just the reaction of the general public when a new super duper awesome bike comes out. Obviously the new Venge has serious issues when their two big sprinters don't want to use it for a parade.
> 
> 
> 
> I really am curious what the issues are with the bike.


It seems to be a good 2 pounds heavier than the old venge, coupled with suspect braking would probably be enough to keep pro's off of it. 

Now the madone, while only slightly better than an S5 at higher angles of yaw, isn't as impressive as the ViAS in terms of aero, but I don't think it suffers from the weight penalties or or the braking issues. Add in the supposed better comfort due to the seatpost system trek is using it might end up being the better buy even if it is slightly more expensive than even the ViAS.

I have someone I ride with that got a madone, I'll be picking his brain on tomorrow's ride on its braking and comfort.


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

If someone rolled up to a ride or race with that new Venge and the matching "outfit" he should be beaten across the head with a newspaper. 

Its the ultimate poseurmobile.


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## packetloss (Jun 2, 2014)

Maybe the extra 2 pounds is from the lead shielding in the seat tube used for hiding the electric motor?


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## taodemon (Mar 17, 2014)

RkFast said:


> If someone rolled up to a ride or race with that new Venge and the matching "outfit" he should be beaten across the head with a newspaper.
> 
> Its the ultimate poseurmobile.


As opposed to an F8, or a new H1 Madone? And what is the issue of having a matching outfit? Don't a lot of racers already use skin suits for races to match expensive bikes?


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

RkFast said:


> If someone rolled up to a ride or race with that new Venge and the matching "outfit" he should be beaten across the head with a newspaper.
> 
> Its the ultimate poseurmobile.


Just wait till the McLaren version comes out with matching shoes...
Seriously though, on a gut level I agree with you, at least if someone shows up for a group ride in the skinsuit.
On another level, though, it makes no sense except on really hot days, to ride one if you don't bother to use an aero helmet, be it specialized or someone else's. It's like your choice in bikes saying "aero matters" and your helmet saying "aero doesn't matter at all"

And it's also true that the amount of peer pressure BS in this sport can get out of hand really quickly. The only way to avoid smirks and sneers at many group rides is to show up on a non-aero, mid-grade frame with ultegra mechanical and -- here I'm going to exaggerate but only a little -- a 3T Team stem with red stripe, Mavic alloy wheels and Conti GP4000s tires.
It's like being in junior high school all over again.


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## WRM4865 (Mar 4, 2015)

RkFast said:


> If someone rolled up to a ride or race with that new Venge and the matching "outfit" he should be beaten across the head with a newspaper.
> 
> Its the ultimate poseurmobile.


legs and lungs silence a lot of critics.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

RkFast said:


> If someone rolled up to a ride or race with that new Venge and the matching "outfit" he should be beaten across the head with a newspaper.
> 
> Its the ultimate poseurmobile.



I got some old La Gazzetta dello Sport papers by the toilet perfect for the occasion...


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

WRM4865 said:


> legs and lungs silence a lot of critics.


This is true....


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## jimmerjohn123 (Jul 11, 2015)

so we've heard they didn't ride it because of the brakes - does that mean its braking power is bad?


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## young-nyc (Oct 28, 2011)

From this review, it seems like the brakes are working fine.
Is the Specialized Venge ViAS the Fastest Road Bike in the World? | Bicycling


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## Ahillock (Apr 16, 2011)

From the "Rise Above Ride" in Wales two weekends ago.


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## taodemon (Mar 17, 2014)

Ahillock said:


> From the "Rise Above Ride" in Wales two weekends ago.


LOL at the guys walking their bikes up the hill. It is a bit odd that Cav isn't on the bike for this though. I assume this isn't a race of any sort and more a charity event (from the guys walking their bikes)? Which would mean there would be no reason not to use the new version. Maybe Cav just doesn't like the bike?


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

taodemon said:


> LOL at the guys walking their bikes up the hill. It is a bit odd that Cav isn't on the bike for this though. I assume this isn't a race of any sort and more a charity event (from the guys walking their bikes)? Which would mean there would be no reason not to use the new version. Maybe Cav just doesn't like the bike?


Seems like this would be the kind of ride that Cav would want to ride the Venge ViAS to become more familiar with it and get some saddle time on it before any major races the rest of the year.


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## taodemon (Mar 17, 2014)

tranzformer said:


> Seems like this would be the kind of ride that Cav would want to ride the Venge ViAS to become more familiar with it and get some saddle time on it before any major races the rest of the year.


Exactly.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

or maybe he wants to ride his signature frame... the one that has his name on it, that he helped design.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

Lots of footage of Peter Sagan on the Venge Vias here... during Tinkoff training ride.

https://youtu.be/QsOYHVuj2oU


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

TricrossRich said:


> Lots of footage of Peter Sagan on the Venge Vias here... during Tinkoff training ride.
> 
> https://youtu.be/QsOYHVuj2oU


But at the Vuelta today he was on the old one again. Something"s odd here.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

thumper8888 said:


> But at the Vuelta today he was on the old one again. Something"s odd here.


For Stage 3, Sagan was definitely on the new Venge.... no front brake, super slim head tube.


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

TricrossRich said:


> For Stage 3, Sagan was definitely on the new Venge.... no front brake, super slim head tube.



Sagan was on the Tarmac for most of the race and swapped for the finish yesterday. 











If the Venge ViAS was so great, you would think he would just ride the whole day on the bike.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

tranzformer said:


> Sagan was on the Tarmac for most of the race and swapped for the finish yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I must've missed the switch. I know that he was on the Tarmac for Stage 2. I think the whole mid stage bike switch is silly... it at least sort of makes sense in this case because he's switching from a climbing bike for the hillier section to the aero bike for the sprint, but it seems really silly when Contador switches from a climbing bike to a climbing bike... a little suspect too, if you ask me.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

TricrossRich said:


> I must've missed the switch. I know that he was on the Tarmac for Stage 2. I think the whole mid stage bike switch is silly... it at least sort of makes sense in this case because he's switching from a climbing bike for the hillier section to the aero bike for the sprint, but it seems really silly when Contador switches from a climbing bike to a climbing bike... a little suspect too, if you ask me.



Yeah, you're right on two counts... it was the new bike at the finish... I was looking at a photo from a tricky angle and thought I was seeing a front brake cable. But no.
And yeah, sometimes these bike swaps seem odd. I guess they have worked out the numbers, but it surely that equation each time must include the effort it will take to reattach to the pack and then move to the front.


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

thumper8888 said:


> Yeah, you're right on two counts... it was the new bike at the finish... I was looking at a photo from a tricky angle and thought I was seeing a front brake cable. But no.
> And yeah, sometimes these bike swaps seem odd. I guess they have worked out the numbers, but it surely that equation each time must include the effort it will take to reattach to the pack and then move to the front.



Thing is, the TFR riders have no problem riding the Trek Madone 9 the whole race.

MTN-Qhubeka riders have no problem riding the Cervelo S5 the whole race.

Orice Greenedge riders have no problem riding the Scott Foil the whole race.

The Katusha/Movistar riders have no problem riding the Canyon Aeroad the whole race


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

tranzformer said:


> Thing is, the TFR riders have no problem riding the Trek Madone 9 the whole race.
> 
> MTN-Qhubeka riders have no problem riding the Cervelo S5 the whole race.
> 
> ...


In each case you list, of course, the bikes are lighter. My 2015 S5 frame weighs 1050, which is only 10 grams heavier than the 2013 Venge I sold last year, exactly the same as the McLaren Venge I owned briefly and close to 200 grams heavier than the S4 tarmac I had. The new Venge is, as has been noted, heavier than the old one.. But is it really enough to warrant these swaps?
I guess Sagan thinks so, but man I would sure hate to chase back on like that. Of course, Sagan is roughly 4,00 times more fit than me. But still.
Dude is having a great year, despite having to settle for so many 2nds.


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## taodemon (Mar 17, 2014)

I haven't been watching the vuelta but are you sure there was a bike switch on the day of the win? Or could that picture of the tarmac be from one of the other stages? I know he does use the Tarmac on mountain stages.


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

taodemon said:


> I haven't been watching the vuelta but are you sure there was a bike switch on the day of the win? Or could that picture of the tarmac be from one of the other stages? I know he does use the Tarmac on mountain stages.


100% sure it was from the same day (stage 3). I watched the stage. 

Here is some proof for you:

(1)Vuelta a España 2015: Stage 3 Results | Cyclingnews.com
Go to the thumbnail pictures on the bottom of the main picture. 5 pictures to the right. 












(2) On board video clip from stage 3. Go to 27-32s mark.


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## taodemon (Mar 17, 2014)

Yeah, that is definitely the Tarmac at the 27-32s mark.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

taodemon said:


> Yeah, that is definitely the Tarmac at the 27-32s mark.


Agreed... and the plot thickens. For today's stage, it appears as if he was on the old Venge. I haven't found clear photos, but it appears to the old venue based on the seat post clamp that is visible. The Tarmac has a hidden seat post clamp.


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

Yeah that is interesting. 

Here is another picture from today's stage.


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## packetloss (Jun 2, 2014)

Bottom line is he has the bike for free and won't use it except for limited situations so do you want to spend $6,200 for the module?


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

Cav on old Venge for stage 1 Tour of Britain.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Chances are he's leaving Etixx at the end of the season. Chances are he's also leaving Specialized. If that's the case, he's under no real obligation to ride a bike he doesn't like riding. He isn't really anyway, but if he's leaving he won't be forced into riding it next year. Sagan however has to ride it next season, he doesn't have a choice really.


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

This is from Peter Sagan's twitter recently. Even on a training ride, looks like he isn't even riding the new Venge ViAS. These are the kind of rides he should be riding on the ViAS if he liked it so that he could get use to it and be ready for his next race on it. Something is up. Seems clear Sagan and Cav do not like the ViAS.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Nice to see the rider on the left using fenders. 
No delusions of grandeur.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

So...

Is Specialized going to make a custom rainbow stripes version of the old Venge now? 

Kind of weird to make him a rainbow bike that he doesn't ride...


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

*Yes, Boonen was on his old (signature model) Venge today too.*

Specialized does have a PR dilemma. Photos in the posters and ads are going to have to focus in tightly on the rider rather than the bike for this one.
It looks like the pro tour has rejected it.
It's time for some believable, official explanation either from the riders or the manufacturer. This wasn't some daunting climbing race. Greipel was on to almost the end, for god sakes, and wouldn't have popped them if he hadn't had to do all that work pulling the case group back onto the leaders.
What races is it suited for if not this one?




MMsRepBike said:


> So...
> 
> Is Specialized going to make a custom rainbow stripes version of the old Venge now?
> 
> Kind of weird to make him a rainbow bike that he doesn't ride...


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

I think it's what Cav said, I think the brakes are sketchy.

The second I saw the bike and brakes for the first time I suspected they would be a problem. My comments are on this site about it. I immediately called them out as being sub-par brakes.

Either that or it's too heavy, but I really think it's a safety issue with the brakes. A little extra weight isn't that big of a deal but stopping reliability very much is.


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## dc503 (Mar 15, 2011)

MMsRepBike said:


> So...
> 
> Is Specialized going to make a custom rainbow stripes version of the old Venge now?
> 
> Kind of weird to make him a rainbow bike that he doesn't ride...


He was on the Tarmac today FWIW.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

dc503 said:


> He was on the Tarmac today FWIW.


The back up bike was the old Venge FWIW.


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## 1Butcher (Mar 15, 2011)

I do not think it is customary to make a world champion back up bike version, but we'll wait and see what Specialized does.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

If they do a celebration bike, I bet it will be a Tarmac.


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## 1Butcher (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm willing to bet it's when, not if. But yes, much more appropriate.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

Well, problem solved in terms of Cav using the new Venge. Cav is out and it looks like Kittel is in.


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## taodemon (Mar 17, 2014)

TricrossRich said:


> Well, problem solved in terms of Cav using the new Venge. Cav is out and it looks like Kittel is in.


What if Kittel doesn't use it either?


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

taodemon said:


> What if Kittel doesn't use it either?


"Morgan Hill, we have a problem." LOL


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## cmschmie (Apr 20, 2012)

The more I see pros not using the ViAS, the more it seems that Specialized made a mistake by _seemingly_ leaving the pros or advanced amateurs out of the design process and purely going based on "Win" tunnel data.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Yup, they made him a Tarmac...

Sagan shows off world champion's kit and bike | Cyclingnews.com










Not very special. Last years was much, much nicer. They didn't even give him striped wheels.


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## awjpca (Oct 1, 2015)

I like Sagan's more tbf. Kwiato's kit was nicer though.


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## taodemon (Mar 17, 2014)

awjpca said:


> I like Sagan's more tbf. Kwiato's kit was nicer though.


I'll second this, I like Sagan's better.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

As of now, I like Kwiato's bike better. I want to see it in better light and get a look at the details.


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## mile2424 (Jul 17, 2008)

from what it seems, looks like the same digi camo wc colors in those select areas, but ya it will be interesting to see once better pics and details come out


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

mile2424 said:


> from what it seems, looks like the same digi camo wc colors in those select areas, but ya it will be interesting to see once better pics and details come out


what same digi camo colors?


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

WC bike










Normal camo colors.

Looks like less camo on the new one.


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## mile2424 (Jul 17, 2008)

TricrossRich said:


> what same digi camo colors?


sorry I meant digi camo with the world champion colors. Although after seeing the new pics, its more of a traditional camo with the rounded edges rather than the sharp triangle style


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