# SF Bay trail illegal for fit riders



## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

The San Francisco Bay and Stevens Creek trails are not legal for fit riders exercising or commuting, except on days with head winds.

This showed up last week:









although unnecessary with a possible exception for weekends. The group loitering behind the sign plus these people are the sort of traffic on the trail next to the Google campus during lunch hour:









I have no clue whether this is Mountain View imposing their speed limit, or the nature preserve people applying the same speed limit they have on dirt single track.

There isn't any place near the Silicon Valley campuses and office parks where you can ride a single loop or out-and-back for 45-60 minutes without stopping for a traffic light which doesn't involve those trails.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

They are legal for fit riders, you're just supposed to follow the speed limit. The freeways are legal for Ferraris, they just can't go fast.

I think it's Mt View's speed limit.

You can of course just ignore the speed limit (while riding safely of course). I've yet to see a cop on any of those trails.

However I have found that trail to not be that great for making time, at least during commute hours. Too many slow riders, kids on bikes, and people walking. If I want to ride at my normal cruising speed I prefer riding on the roads. The trail is awfully handy for commuting however, and the bridge over the freeway is much better than trying to ride on the overpasses.

I think you're asking a lot for a single loop or out and back that long without stop lights.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

I'd been riding the trails here in Toronto for years before I noticed the little "20 KMH limit" signs.

I'm thinking that if there's no law that required a speedometer on bikes, how could we be expected to know how fast we are going?

Also zero enforcement, so kind of meaningless.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

Not having a speedometer won't get you out of speeding tickets.


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## wgscott (Jul 14, 2013)

With all the great climbs in the area, why would someone want to ride _that_?


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## singlespeed.org (Feb 14, 2006)

ericm979 said:


> They are legal for fit riders, you're just supposed to follow the speed limit. The freeways are legal for Ferraris, they just can't go fast.


This! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Those speed limits signs are put out there after people complain about problems - so looks like bikes have been going too fast for comfort (if not safety) and causing problems.

Sounds like you want a Velodrome, not a public road or trail that you have to share. Those tech masters down there that people work for give all sorts of benefits for their minions - why not see if yours will make you a velodrome?


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

singlespeed.org said:


> This! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
> 
> Those speed limits signs are put out there after people complain about problems - so looks like bikes have been going too fast for comfort (if not safety) and causing problems.
> 
> Sounds like you want a Velodrome, not a public road or trail that you have to share. Those tech masters down there that people work for give all sorts of benefits for their minions - why not see if yours will make you a velodrome?


No, just something like the 101 except for bikes. No traffic lights. Speed limits twice those of streets running through neighborhoods so you can legally go places at a decent speed.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

wgscott said:


> With all the great climbs in the area, why would someone want to ride _that_?


To get to work?



Drew Eckhardt said:


> No, just something like the 101 except for bikes.


That'd suck! 101 is stop and go for much of the day. Although it would be cool to have that many cyclists on a road.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

wgscott said:


> With all the great climbs in the area, why would someone want to ride _that_?


I want to ride for 1.5-2 hours every day before work, not drive 1-1.5 hours round trip to ride someplace nicer which would undo the relaxation from riding, and not ride 3-4 hours.

7.5 - 10 hours out of a work week is a lot more manageable than 15-20.

One of my friends does his time in the garage on a trainer, although I don't have the disposition for that especially when it's 55 degrees out. mostly sunny, and with negligible wind.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

ericm979 said:


> To get to work?
> 
> 
> 
> That'd suck! 101 is stop and go for much of the day. Although it would be cool to have that many cyclists on a road.


The 101 is great off peak hours (morning and evening commute). The SF Bay Trail and Stevens Creek connecting it to Middlefield are fine off peak (around 9am headed to Google on Stevens creek and weekend days).

Obviously with 1.8 million people in the county there are going to be problems when a bunch try to use communal resources at the same time.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

Drew Eckhardt said:


> I want to ride for 1.5-2 hours every day before work


Do your ride from home and then commute by bike or car to work. Or drive. Or drive part way, stop and ride, then drive the rest of the way into work. 

When I first got back into cycling I would ride from work- I worked in the far south bay and good roads were only a few miles away. Then I got a job in Redwood City. I rode from there for a while until I realized I was spending a bunch of my riding time in city traffic. I took to stopping in Woodside on my drive into work and riding from there. Woodside is no longer right on my way to work but I still ride from there a couple times a week so I can do some group rides in the area. It doesn't add much to my commute drive.

Back when I lived in the valley and could do a full commute by bike I'd do a training ride from home then come home and grab the commute bike to ride to work.

I know some very good racers who ride their race bikes to work and do a group ride on the way in the morning, or do the noon ride. They get a lot of commute miles in but it doesn't seem to hurt them. Riding in traffic sucks compared to riding on nice roads but it's still better than driving in traffic.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

ericm979 said:


> Do your ride from home and then commute by bike or car to work. Or drive. Or drive part way, stop and ride, then drive the rest of the way into work.


The fundamental problem is that excluding bike trails there are no rides reasonably close to my home and office in Sunnyvale where you can ride a decent distance without stop lights.

When I commuted 13 miles one-way I counted 24 traffic lights and 10 stop signs not including right turns.

Rides like the Portola Valley loop are nice, but getting there is 15 miles one way by bike or 12 miles by car which takes 30-60 minutes depending on traffic. 



> Back when I lived in the valley and could do a full commute by bike I'd do a training ride from home then come home and grab the commute bike to ride to work.


Skipping the bike trails with low speed limits and forays into the mountains which are too far for daily rides, where else in Silicon Valley can I ride a reasonable distance without traffic lights?

Fairchild from Ellis to Whisman, right on Middlefield, right on Easy street, left to the Stevens Creek trail, to the Bay Trail, right on Bayshore, right on Embarcadero, looping back is 15 miles with two right turns at stop lights making room for 3x10 or 2x20.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

Drew Eckhardt said:


> The fundamental problem is that excluding bike trails there are no rides reasonably close to my home and office in Sunnyvale where you can ride a decent distance without stop lights.


Well that's the downside of living in town. Any place you live there will have some drawbacks. You just have to figure out a way to work around them. Complaining that things aren't exactly perfect for you isn't going to accomplish anything.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

ericm979 said:


> Well that's the downside of living in town. Any place you live there will have some drawbacks. You just have to figure out a way to work around them. Complaining that things aren't exactly perfect for you isn't going to accomplish anything.


Presumably people complaining got the speed limit on the bike paths, and cyclists complaining have gotten them lifted elsewhere.


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## TimV (Mar 20, 2007)

Drew Eckhardt said:


> The fundamental problem is that excluding bike trails there are no rides reasonably close to my home and office in Sunnyvale where you can ride a decent distance without stop lights.


I agree with Eric. You need to evaluate priorities. You live in Sunnyvale. Of course you're surrounded by Expressways and stoplights every mile or so. If riding uninterrupted for two hours is that important, you need to move to the outskirts a little. You're actually not that far. You could move to the west of 280 / 85 and have the entire lower peninsula. Or you could move to Milpitas and do Calaveras Road every morning.

I'm in Livermore, another town on the outskirts of the Bay Area. I get to ride every morning on the surrounding back roads and can choose routes where I almost never see a stop light. It's nice. But if I was just one town over in Pleasanton or Dublin, it would be nearly impossible. It's all about what's important, I guess.



Drew Eckhardt said:


> Presumably people complaining got the speed limit on the bike paths, and cyclists complaining have gotten them lifted elsewhere.


Not necessarily. The speed limits were most likely posted when the trail was built. That means they would have been set by the city planners or engineers who designed the trail system (my wife was once a C.E. who did this very thing). Anyway, multi-use trails are not the place to do your training. Too many other users and hazards make them unsafe for higher speeds. Either way, good luck!


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

Drew Eckhardt said:


> Presumably people complaining got the speed limit on the bike paths, and cyclists complaining have gotten them lifted elsewhere.


But even with no speed limit the paths aren't appropriate for riding fast. Some sections are but others have tight turns or limited sight lines, and there's slow people and little kids on the paths.



TimV said:


> I
> 
> I'm in Livermore, another town on the outskirts of the Bay Area. I get to ride every morning on the surrounding back roads and can choose routes where I almost never see a stop light.


But you have to live in Livergulch and deal with Livermorons.  I grew up there so I can say that. It is a nice place to ride though the heat can be an issue for some people. 

Where I live I can ride mountain climbs from my garage. But there's no warm up or anything easy. If I want to do a flattish easy ride I have to drive into town. It's a tough climb to get home and no easy way to ride from the valley to home unless I want to do a two hour ride.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

SLOWER VEHICLES AND ESPECIALLY PEDESTRIANS have the right of way. Yea, even the ones not exercising much common sense. 

i.e. no leashes on dogs, LOOONGG leashes on dog, Long leaches reeled all the way out on wrong side on cell phone facing away from you on your bike. The ones with the reel all the way out across the complete MUT [my fav].

Groups of folks spanned across the path oblivious to sharing it like loiterer that stop just off the ski lift in the way.. 

Kids on 8" wheel that just got their training wheel off the day before and ahead and all over the path [turn into us later ]

Folks walking or running that think headphones on while sharing said path is anything but a bad idea...

What did I miss.

If you can't slow down and or stop at any second or be willing to, DON'T RIDE ON THESE PATHS. Rider mentality of I am not braking if I don't have to [I know, you break you loose] is S-T-U-P-I-D behavior. When you wind up plowing over my Mom with osteoporosis and break every bone in her body, I am going to sue you into life problems you can't imagine for you negligence.

I say to folks every day while riding these MUTS as they apologize as I patiently slow to a crawl waiting to say something. You are fine, I have brakes, enjoy the day. Sometime I say can I have a piece of this to get by? 

When the MUT is clear and free in front of me, I go well over 15. I see congestion or ANYTHING that may have me incur the pave at speed... I SLOW WAY DOWN...

You may fly by and scare the shheit out of a council person or a mayor/law makers relative etc. Use the brain God gave you, or chosen entity or Darwin et al

I must be a fooking genius or something to have figured this out...


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## TimV (Mar 20, 2007)

ericm979 said:


> But you have to live in Livergulch and deal with Livermorons.  I grew up there so I can say that. It is a nice place to ride though the heat can be an issue for some people.


Have you been back recently? I grew up here, too, but now it's a completely different town. It's now surrounded by vineyards and over 50 wineries. The downtown has been completely transformed and is busy every night of the week with restaurants, brew pubs, wine bars, movie cinemas and a performing arts theater. It's pretty awesome.


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## bayAreaDude (Apr 13, 2012)

TimV said:


> Have you been back recently? I grew up here, too, but now it's a completely different town. It's now surrounded by vineyards and over 50 wineries. The downtown has been completely transformed and is busy every night of the week with restaurants, brew pubs, wine bars, movie cinemas and a performing arts theater. It's pretty awesome.


Agreed, I really like Livermore now. We go out there at least once a month for dinner or a movie or a tasting. Vineyards without the pretension and bachelorette parties - very cool.

Don't dig Cupertino and surrounding area at all.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

TimV said:


> Have you been back recently?


Yea, until a few years ago my mother lived there so I went there a lot. Downtown is way nicer now. Riding outside town is not as good as 25 years ago since there's more traffic, but it's not as crowded as Silicon Valley. Livermore has fewer self-important executives in German luxury cars but more bubbas in bro-dozers.

The hardest thing to take is how much the town has expanded. I can go just about anywhere except the core of town and see houses in places that were fields or open space when I was a kid.


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