# Pride Cycles--horrible experience



## motloc

Do yourself a favor and buy a frame from a recognized builder, avoid this situation: 

I provided specs to Pride Cycles for a custom ti frame. The first CAD drawing came to me riddled with mistakes. Unfortunately, they don't actually draw up their frames but rather they use Bike Forest free internet software to draw the frames. So, because of that software I was able to catch some of the mistakes on the CAD drawing but there was one that just wasn't obvious based on the wonky Bike Forest drawing. So, they built the frame not to my specs. When I got the frame the mistake was obvious. (In addition, the frame was poorly built, most notably the dropouts were rotated toward the back of the bike, almost like rear-facing dropouts on a TT bike.) After some back and forth Pride agreed to build me a new frame once they sold the one they had already built. I felt that was fair. I even offered to pay additional money to cover their costs--they said no, they felt bad for screwing up the first frame. I waited patiently for two months. Finally Pride said they had sold the frame and would begin to build mine. Fine.

A month and a half or so later, I still didn't have a frame. So I contacted Pride, and only got BS responses. So I said I would have no option but to file suit, and then they said they'd build the frame. I kept getting stuff like "the tubes are mitered we just need to weld it up." Then they said they had shipped the frame. I asked for the tracking number, and they said UPS's server was down and they couldn't pull the tracking no. for me. I called UPS, and they said there was no problem with their server. So I called back to Pride, and they said it had actually shipped USPS. They immediately started acting as though the frame was lost in the mail, even though they said it had shipped just two days before. They said that they were trying to get the tracking no. from USPS in Chattanooga, from a "Brenda" at the main branch. I called that same branch, and a woman who had worked there for 28 years said there was no Brenda there. There had never been a Brenda. So I called Pride back. They said they were pissed, they would never ship USPS again. They said that they would build a second bike (again, this was only a few days after they promised they had shipped the bike USPS, but they were acting as though the "first" frame was lost). So they promised me a tracking number. Now, a week later, they won't return my calls or answer my emails. 

So, I got screwed. I'm out $1200. Should I have caught the mistakes on the CAD drawing? Maybe. Maybe I should have called them and said the drawing wasn't clear, let's walk through it. But the mistake was on the C-C seat tube measurement, which I had provided to them. I just didn't think they would simply screw it up (in my mind, CAD drawings are meant to ensure that you are fine with the front center distance, for example, based on the numbers you provide, not to make sure that the frame builder didn't screw up the numbers you provided). But in the end, maybe I should have just bought a Lynskey or something like that and I'd be happy today.


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## krisdrum

Sorry to hear about that. If you haven't already, I'd make a call to their local law enforcement and have them go out and have a little chat with them on your behalf.

For $100 more than what you paid, Haberno Cycles would have done a custom geometry for you based on one of their current builds. In case you get your money back, it is an option you could explore.


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## erj549

Don't leave it at that. That's your $1200 you're talking about. If the payment has already cleared, then you're just going to have to bother the crap out of them. You should call frequently demanding a refund. You could also file a complaint with the BBB in their area. Also, the mention about getting local law enforcement involved isn't a bad idea either. This is certainly a fraudulent dealing and it seems that there are definitely grounds for law enforcement to get involved. 

But definitely don't let it slide.


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## Hank Stamper

erj549 said:


> Don't leave it at that. That's your $1200 you're talking about. If the payment has already cleared, then you're just going to have to bother the crap out of them.


He should be able to contest the payment with his bank or credit card company.


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## asad137

erj549 said:


> Also, the mention about getting local law enforcement involved isn't a bad idea either. This is certainly a fraudulent dealing and it seems that there are definitely grounds for law enforcement to get involved.


If it's across state lines it could count as a federal crime, perhaps mail fraud. A call from the FBI might scare them into delivering.

Asad


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## motloc

I just got a private message on roadbikereview from someone who had almost the same experience--had to return the first frame, then never got the second. This appears to be a pattern, I think Pride is just a rip-off outfit.


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## andulong

Forget the frame, just tell them you want a refund since they did not deliver the goods. If the first frame was so messed up why would you even want a replacement from them?


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## Daren

If you need a phone number for local law enforcement, pm me. Their shop is a about 2 miles south of the local PD and I live dead center of the 2


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## coyotegulch

*Pride Nightmare*

I am the guy with the incredibly similar experience. 

I am currently suffering through a nightmare with Pride. I had them build a custom geometry cross frame due to issues I have with my back. They were great to work with initially and I received the frame with out a problem. A couple months later when I proceeded to build the frame up it turns out the cantilever bosses were installed upside down and the rear brake hanger was not centered. Pride said it was due to a bad employee who screwed up several frames and had since been fired. They told me they would fix it and send it back to me. I returned the frame to them and it has been eight weeks. The only communication I received once I sent the frame back was if I initiated it. Supposedly the frame was shipped back to me 3 weeks ago via USPS, but I never received it or any shipping info. They state it was delivered to the post office over three weeks ago, but where is it?? 

So now the frame appears to have been lost, but still no communication from Pride. I have requested a full refund, but still no communication from Pride. I have left numerous phone messges and e-mails. I have filed a complaint with the BBB in their area, the TN consumer affairs division, I contacted the USPS, and I filed a dispute with my cc company. 

Needless to say, their customer service sucks. If the true test of a company is dealing with them when there is an issue then Pride fails.


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## Waves77

Make sure you leave a review of this in the google local business listing:
http://maps.google.com/maps/place?h...sult&ct=write-review&resnum=1&ved=0CCIQtwQwAA

This way it'll get more exposure and save many others some headaches.


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## skyliner1004

wow this company is stealing money left and right and they're still in business? you guys need to contact your CC company and police office and their local police office, and the owner's wives for some relief for the troubles they caused you. $1200 is no joke.


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## civdic

Go to the Pride site. Click on contact us and email them this thread.


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## Waves77

BTW, they have a twitter account here:
http://twitter.com/PrideCycles

(quite active, so they should damn well be able to get back to you in 24 hours). 

Also their facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/PRIDEcycles?ref=search

You won't be able to post on their wall until they approve you, so I suggest you wait for approval and post at an odd hour of the day so they don't remove it right away and as many as possible of the people on their friend list see it.


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## Waves77

PS:

If you have an account on bikeforums I'd recommend posting this incident on there too to get the ball rolling.

If they still don't reach out, create a free blog somewhere (make sure you name it after the company) and publish some of your correspondence and pictures (you did take pictures of everything that was wrong I hope).


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## SilentAssassin

What if this thread is a way to make pridecycles look bad. What if the OP got his bike, and pridecycles didn't use a tracking when they sent it out, and he is trying to take advantage. Now it could be either or, I'm just saying, let's be fair here, there are two sides to every story.

Wouldn't you have filed a chargeback already if this indeed was true? Or, do you have a history of filing chargebacks that is preventing you from doing so? I don't know, it just seems to me like filing a chargeback with your bank would be your only avenue of approach besides small claims court. LE can't do anything, because for all they know, PrideCycles did send out the frame and it was lost in the mail. In that case, mail insurance should have covered the cost I would think? I don't understand why pridecycles wouldn't have tracking information on frames they send out.


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## PlatyPius

http://www.yelp.com/biz/pride-cycles-soddy-daisy


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## motloc

SilentAssassin said:


> What if this thread is a way to make pridecycles look bad. What if the OP got his bike, and pridecycles didn't use a tracking when they sent it out, and he is trying to take advantage. Now it could be either or, I'm just saying, let's be fair here, there are two sides to every story.
> 
> Wouldn't you have filed a chargeback already if this indeed was true? Or, do you have a history of filing chargebacks that is preventing you from doing so? I don't know, it just seems to me like filing a chargeback with your bank would be your only avenue of approach besides small claims court. LE can't do anything, because for all they know, PrideCycles did send out the frame and it was lost in the mail. In that case, mail insurance should have covered the cost I would think? I don't understand why pridecycles wouldn't have tracking information on frames they send out.


I ordered and paid for the frame more than 90 days ago, on my debit card. There's no way for the bank to contest the charge, according to my bank manager. And I gave Pride the benefit of the doubt. In this case, honestly, I presented their side to the story--that I missed one of the many mistakes they made on the CAD drawing. But they agreed it was their mistake and agreed to make me a new frame. That was back in April. And if the frame was lost in the mail, and they were in fact dealing with someone at the post office, there would be a way to verify it. They told me to talk to "Brenda." But there is no Brenda, just like there is no frame. And they're telling the other poster who is waiting for his frame the exact same story. I don't want Pride to look bad, I just wanted to tell my side of the story. :mad2:


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## AtlantaR6

SilentAssassin said:


> What if this thread is a way to make pridecycles look bad. What if the OP got his bike, and pridecycles didn't use a tracking when they sent it out, and he is trying to take advantage. Now it could be either or, I'm just saying, let's be fair here, there are two sides to every story.


What would be the point in doing this? Maybe the owner from Pride is dating his ex?


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## SilentAssassin

AtlantaR6 said:


> What would be the point in doing this? Maybe the owner from Pride is dating his ex?


So a free custom $1200 frame wouldn't be enough motive?


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## coyotegulch

Responding to Silent Assassin:

No, $1264 is not enough for ME to commit fraud or liable. 

I have forwarded this thread on to David and Pam Atkins, the owners of Pride, and I hope they respond. If not, I hope they respond either to the BBB or the TN Dept of Consumer Affairs. I have filed a written complaint with my CC company, but I am beyond 120 days out, so I am not sure what they will do. My next step is filing in small claims court, but I will need to add travel expenses to TN to the suit. 

A little commuincation and honesty would have saved everyone a lot of trouble.


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## motloc

coyotegulch said:


> Responding to Silent Assassin:
> 
> No, $1264 is not enough for ME to commit fraud or liable.
> 
> .


I was about to say the same thing myself.


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## Waves77

They've posted to twitter twice today already, so at least we know they're online...


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## dgeesaman

motloc said:


> Do yourself a favor and buy a frame from a recognized builder, avoid this situation:
> ...
> So, I got screwed. I'm out $1200. Should I have caught the mistakes on the CAD drawing? Maybe. Maybe I should have called them and said the drawing wasn't clear, let's walk through it. But the mistake was on the C-C seat tube measurement, which I had provided to them. I just didn't think they would simply screw it up (in my mind, CAD drawings are meant to ensure that you are fine with the front center distance, for example, based on the numbers you provide, not to make sure that the frame builder didn't screw up the numbers you provided). But in the end, maybe I should have just bought a Lynskey or something like that and I'd be happy today.


I suspect they're lying about having shipped the frame.

In any case they owe you the money even if USPS lost it. They are responsible for getting it to you, and if their shipper loses it that's between them and the shipper. Start working in writing now with registered letters.

This kind of stuff can include mail fraud which is pretty significant stuff. If you get things in writing and going forward you should get your money back.


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## Waves77

According to their twitter account (posted an hour ago) they're catching up to emails as we speak... really curious to hear how they handle this mess.


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## motloc

I saw those twitter postings too. On Sunday night I got an email from "Jimmy," who I had never dealt with, saying that Pride would email me on Monday with a resolution. Jimmy assured me that I was not being ripped off and this would get taken care of without delay. Monday came and went and no email. I called several times and they don't answer. I emailed them to check on status and got no response. I'm not holding my breath.


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## asad137

https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/forms/MailFraudComplaint.aspx

If you can find other people that have been similarly screwed (looks like there are two just in this thread!), you'll probably get a good response.

Asad


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## AtlantaR6

SilentAssassin said:


> So a free custom $1200 frame wouldn't be enough motive?


So complaining about his frame on a road bike forum is going to get him a new frame? I think he might have better results complaining about it to THEM directly, which he said he is trying to do.


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## bigkatron44

*Pride took my money also*

I ordered a custom bike after the drawing etc... and they delivered a bike that would not keep the rear wheel straight, no reamed headseat, slipping post and a welds so bad that I couldn't get the bike to shift to the 1 without hitting the rear welds....total crap. David told me the same crap as the other guy, a bad builder had done this, etc...all not true! After 4 months of trying to get my money back and no luck, I just gave up.He also told me they would rebuild the bike and every time the delivery date got close, he would come up with an excuse--my favorite was that he had a heart attack. Look, the guy is a piece of crap and builds horrible bikes. We need to post a warning everywhere that this operation is dirty and don't buy Pride!


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## Waves77

bigkatron44 said:


> I ordered a custom bike after the drawing etc... and they delivered a bike that would not keep the rear wheel straight, no reamed headseat, slipping post and a welds so bad that I couldn't get the bike to shift to the 1 without hitting the rear welds....total crap. David told me the same crap as the other guy, a bad builder had done this, etc...all not true! After 4 months of trying to get my money back and no luck, I just gave up.He also told me they would rebuild the bike and every time the delivery date got close, he would come up with an excuse--my favorite was that he had a heart attack. Look, the guy is a piece of crap and builds horrible bikes. We need to post a warning everywhere that this operation is dirty and don't buy Pride!


Please make sure you leave a review through the link posted on the first page.

FWIW I sent them this link through twitter. They told me to send them an email and they'd explain. Still haven't heard anything. If they ever do I'll definitely update this thread, but this seems very very fishy.


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## draganM

wow, complete loss of a large chunk of money, I really feel bad for you guys. Your experience bears all the hallmarks of a company going bankrupt and stalling until their legal protection kicks in. 
I just ordered a non-custom frame from another small builder. For $159. + ship I got a really nicely built and beautifully welded frame from Leader bikes USA, the LD720 TT. 
I had a small gripe because it's pictured with a seat-post clamp, barrel adjusters, and plastic BB cable guide and didn't come with any of them but it seems *very* minor compared to what you guys went through.


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## coyotegulch

Well it has been another week. Prides still does not answer the phone, although I did get a busy signal last time I called. They do not return phone calls or e-mails. The BBB let me know they have contacted them.


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## asad137

Jesus christ, people. F$*# the BBB, they can't actually _do_ anything. GET ACTUAL AUTHORITIES INVOLVED.

Asad


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## motloc

I contacted the police. The officer I spoke to stopped by Pride Cycles and said that there were people there and that it seemed like an operating business. But the officer said that he considers this a civil matter. I'm not sure I entirely agree. Granted, under the TN criminal code there is no provision that clearly covers this scenario. However, the TN consumer protection act provides that it shall be a class B misdemeanor to engage in unfair or deceptive acts or practices affecting the conduct of any trade or commerce. Granted, it's not a felony. But it's worth a shot, I'm going to contact the officer again and ask to press charges under that section. Additionally, under that act the plaintiff may recover treble damages and attorney's fees. So, it might actually be worth filing suit in TN. But, it seems as though this crap company is going down and then you'd be left with a worthless judgment. In short, they friggin suck.


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## locominute

hey Motloc.. any further update..?


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## motloc

Interestingly enough, yes. I was about to post something. So: Last week I get an email from Pride with a UPS tracking number. Excited, I tracked the package only to find that it was an invalid tracking number. So I sent Pride a bunch of emails. I kept checking the tracking number--nothing. But this morning I checked it again...and...lo and behold something is coming my way from Soddy Daisy TN. I emailed Pride and asked if it was a bomb, and they took it in good humor. I'll update this post, unless I'm blown to kingdom come tomorrow.


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## krisdrum

Ok, so local authorities are saying "civil"? I bet they'd be whistling a different tune if you start talking mail fraud and interstate commerce crimes. If you are not a TN resident, they are breaking federal laws. The Post Office or the FBI do not take that lightly. Go after them with the folks with the most power behind them.


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## motloc

So, in all seriousness I will update this thread tomorrow with pictures of the frame I get. Honestly I really hope the frame is nice (and that the other two guys on this thread get their frames), and that I can post good reviews about Pride. The last thing I wanted was to bad mouth a small frame builder, but enough was enough. Anyway, I'll post something tomorrow. Did Pride contact either of the other guys with frame problems?


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## locominute

I am in the same situation currently. Spoke with Dave this afternoon --apparently, he blew his back out.. but still he could have notified me ....
it has been 4 months since my order went.--I understand sometimes small business can have ups and downs.
he is supposed to send me a picture tomorrow and UPS tracking number.
I notified credit card company anyway


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## locominute

by the way...Pride is the 3rd U>S> small builder I dealt with ... Last year I thought I bought a built frame --paid in full via paypal .. I didn't like the paint job .. but the frame builder promised to repaint no extra charge... 
I was obviously very excited. 3 months went by. no frame. assorted emails and vm left Now he did have a fairly good family medical issue going on, but still 3 months to repaint a frame?
at least I was refunded my money.

the 2nd company I placed an order with downpayment and some how mysteriously my downpayment got sent back (via paypa) I called the builder and he said that they had my money and that my frame would be ready any time soon... not

the ONLY frame builder that has actually followed through has been XACD.. but they goofed on chainstay(though I should have caught this) --frame was delivered in 1 month... but the FD tab cracked after 2 months
but it rides okay.. I get a little nervous going over 40mph+
. looking to Pride to build up a frame with similar geometry but lower BB height

I guess I am a sucker for low prices.. but I am really hoping Pride will deliver.


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## skyliner1004

locominute said:


> by the way...Pride is the 3rd U>S> small builder I dealt with ... Last year I thought I bought a built frame --paid in full via paypal .. I didn't like the paint job .. but the frame builder promised to repaint no extra charge...
> I was obviously very excited. 3 months went by. no frame. assorted emails and vm left Now he did have a fairly good family medical issue going on, but still 3 months to repaint a frame?
> at least I was refunded my money.
> 
> the 2nd company I placed an order with downpayment and some how mysteriously my downpayment got sent back (via paypa) I called the builder and he said that they had my money and that my frame would be ready any time soon... not
> 
> the ONLY frame builder that has actually followed through has been XACD.. but they goofed on chainstay(though I should have caught this) --frame was delivered in 1 month... but the FD tab cracked after 2 months
> but it rides okay.. I get a little nervous going over 40mph+
> . looking to Pride to build up a frame with similar geometry but lower BB height
> 
> I guess I am a sucker for low prices.. but I am really hoping Pride will deliver.


you're an idiot if you buy from Pride.

Go with the china carbon frames. they're overseas, so u get the best prices and u get a real working frame.


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## coyotegulch

*Still Nothing!!*

I have still heard nothing from Pride. I have e-mailed dozens of times and left phone messages daily with no communication back. I will be calling the police department tomorrow, and speaking with the same officer the others have dealt with. Filing in small claims court is my option at the end of the week.


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## Waves77

The whole "blow out my back" thing is BS. They've been plenty of active on their twitter and facebook accounts, so nothing stopped them from sending at least a quick email or making a phone call.

Hope you get your frame sorted out soon!


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## locominute

Hey Skyliner ******* who you calling an idiot ?
..,.
sure I can get a Chinese made carbon anytime I want. DUH!!!
.. but they don't fit--

If this Pride thing doesn't work out then I take it up with the CC company.


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## skyliner1004

locominute said:


> Hey Skyliner ******* who you calling an idiot ?
> ..,.
> sure I can get a Chinese made carbon anytime I want. DUH!!!
> .. but they don't fit--
> 
> If this Pride thing doesn't work out then I take it up with the CC company.


i'm calling you an idiot. can't you read?


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## locominute

Yes I can read..
can you think prick?
what are you doing on this thread anyway? gloating over some people's less fortunate than you while straddling on your massed manufactured look 566 bike?
not all of us can ride our best or comfortably on what is generally available and that is why
we ordered custom.-- or didn't you think of this? and custom ( except steel) is pricey.
you know of a custom cheap chinese frame builder?
better you do 
know a good inexpensive chinese carbon frame with
80mm BB drop with 53.5 level top tube 75degree seat tube and 20cm head tube at 73.3?
I go for it.

the folks on this thread are upset about being ripped off getting CUSTOM made frame.. 
our dream fit.

you don't even belong on this threat....


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## T K

skyliner1004 said:


> i'm calling you an idiot. can't you read?


Did a lot of name calling on that Specialized booth thread also.
Begging for a RBR vacation aint ya?
Buh bye.


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## Coolhand

*Moderators Note*

Enough of the namecalling/insults everyone. Posting vacations if this continues. Thread open for now.


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## coyotegulch

I just got off the phone with the TN Dept. of Consumer Affairs. They have received and processed my complaint and have begun an investigation. We'll see what happens from here....


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## coyotegulch

*Another follow up...*

I just got off the phone with officer Reed of the Soddy Daisy Police Department, nice guy. He stated that they have had a number of complaints about Pride. He spoke with the actual owner of Pride Cycles, Randall Bass, just prior to calling me. Mr. Bass was unaware of any of the complaints, and should be calling me sometime this morning to rectify the situation. Officer Reed also told me that they will continue to investigate this situation for any signs of criminal wrong doing, and will take action if necessary.


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## locominute

Randall Bass??? then who is Dave Atkins--I thought he was the owner..


Hey is there anybody here that has had a positive experience with Pride?


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## skyliner1004

locominute said:


> Randall Bass??? then who is Dave Atkins--I thought he was the owner..
> 
> 
> Hey is there anybody here that has had a positive experience with Pride?


you will, go for it!


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## PlatyPius

skyliner1004 said:


> you will, go for it!


Wot??


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## coyotegulch

*Update*

Well, I never received a call from the "owner" of Pride Cycles today. I did find his phone number and called him leaving a message with his wife. I just spoke with David Atkins. He provided me a tracking number for UPS for my frame. Supposedly it will arrive tomorrow.

I will update this post tomorrow.


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## dualpivot

Have you considered filing suit in small claims court?


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## GirchyGirchy

For some reason this is giving me feelings of deja vu with another manufacturer, either from here or MTBR years ago.

Good luck guys, thanks for the heads up on all this. Hopefully it'll save someone from losing their asses as well.


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## Jetmugg

Contact the US Postal Inspector for the area.

Postal Inspectors are Federal Law Enforcement Officers. Mail Fraud is a felony, and the Feds put people away for mail fraud. They take their jobs very seriously. They will not be "blown off" with a promise to call like the local PD. This is no joke.

My 2 cents,

SteveM.


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## coyotegulch

*At Last!*

I received my frame today, and the corrections appear to have been made. I will hold final judgement until I have it built and I know it is fully functional. 

Apparently there was an illness involved in the delay. Not sure why that required the misinformation and the lack of communication. A simple e-mail explanation or a phone call would have saved a lot of frustration.


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## T K

I think I'd sell that frame if it was me. 
You like to have happy thoughts about your bike and a certain sense of "pride" about it. 
I don't think I could feel that way after all of this b.s..
They were obviously jerking you guys around and have no "pride" in their business and I would have no "pride" riding that p.o.s.. 
Sorry you went through all of that with them.


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## locominute

credit card company settled it... will just be happy riding what I have..


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## skyliner1004

locominute said:


> credit card company settled it... will just be happy riding what I have..


aww no frame for u? why not?


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## tomstork

coyotegulch said:


> I received my frame today, and the corrections appear to have been made. I will hold final judgement until I have it built and I know it is fully functional.
> 
> Apparently there was an illness involved in the delay. Not sure why that required the misinformation and the lack of communication. A simple e-mail explanation or a phone call would have saved a lot of frustration.


So, just to be clear -- they had an illness and some bad communication, and everything seems to be okay otherwise, and they did indeed make good on the mistakes they'd made. And so now you're going to take your time before you say anything positive about them?

Full disclosure: I have a frame on order from Pride. It's taken a bit longer than I would have liked -- and it seems like it's been longer than Dave would have liked, too.

But it seems to me it would have been nice if you'd been that slow to drag their name through the mud (and imply they were committing some sort of fraud). Instead, there's now a nice long thread of negatives, and maybe if you get around to it once you build up your bike and take your time riding it, you'll sort of take some of it back. Maybe.

If something seems too good to be true, it probably is. A business that offers prices as competitive as Pride's is probably 1) either trying to get established (and so is going through some growing pains), or 2) going to mean putting up with some inconvenience even when they're up and running.

If you want flawless communication *and* a firm that's going to take it on themselves to make good on a design *you* approved (yes, I know that was someone else's thread, but it's all of a piece), then Serotta or Seven or Moots will be happy to take your money. Probably about three times as much of it as Pride will.


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## JustTooBig

tomstork said:


> So, just to be clear -- they had an illness and some bad communication, and everything seems to be okay otherwise, and they did indeed make good on the mistakes they'd made. And so now you're going to take your time before you say anything positive about them?
> 
> Full disclosure: I have a frame on order from Pride. It's taken a bit longer than I would have liked -- and it seems like it's been longer than Dave would have liked, too.
> 
> But it seems to me it would have been nice if you'd been that slow to drag their name through the mud (and imply they were committing some sort of fraud). Instead, there's now a nice long thread of negatives, and maybe if you get around to it once you build up your bike and take your time riding it, you'll sort of take some of it back. Maybe.
> 
> If something seems too good to be true, it probably is. A business that offers prices as competitive as Pride's is probably 1) either trying to get established (and so is going through some growing pains), or 2) going to mean putting up with some inconvenience even when they're up and running.
> 
> If you want flawless communication *and* a firm that's going to take it on themselves to make good on a design *you* approved (yes, I know that was someone else's thread, but it's all of a piece), then Serotta or Seven or Moots will be happy to take your money. Probably about three times as much of it as Pride will.



so ..... one can only expect good customer service if they're paying a premium for it. If one is NOT paying a premium, they should be prepared to just take what they can get. Does that sum it up? 

The guy gets the runaround for many weeks (and apparently he's one of several customers getting that treatment), and that's characterized as "some bad communication", then he gets accused of dragging Pride's good name through the mud? jeezus.....


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## Waves77

tomstork said:


> So, just to be clear -- they had an illness and some bad communication, and everything seems to be okay otherwise, and they did indeed make good on the mistakes they'd made. And so now you're going to take your time before you say anything positive about them?
> 
> Full disclosure: I have a frame on order from Pride. It's taken a bit longer than I would have liked -- and it seems like it's been longer than Dave would have liked, too.
> 
> But it seems to me it would have been nice if you'd been that slow to drag their name through the mud (and imply they were committing some sort of fraud). Instead, there's now a nice long thread of negatives, and maybe if you get around to it once you build up your bike and take your time riding it, you'll sort of take some of it back. Maybe.
> 
> If something seems too good to be true, it probably is. A business that offers prices as competitive as Pride's is probably 1) either trying to get established (and so is going through some growing pains), or 2) going to mean putting up with some inconvenience even when they're up and running.
> 
> If you want flawless communication *and* a firm that's going to take it on themselves to make good on a design *you* approved (yes, I know that was someone else's thread, but it's all of a piece), then Serotta or Seven or Moots will be happy to take your money. Probably about three times as much of it as Pride will.


First time posting and you registered to defend Pride... geeze, that's not suspicious at all....

They lied several times about what they were doing, delivered substandard products, from the sound of it even committed mail fraud and never even replied to their voicemails, even though they had plenty of time to post to twitter and facebook several times a day?

Give me freaking break....


----------



## tomstork

Yes, that pretty much sums it up.

And the accusations that they were running a scam, calls to bring in postal inspectors, calling in local cops all go way beyond what was called for.

Yes, he should have been called back sooner. I have to think that Pride would admit that, too.

The main point of what I'm saying, other than "if you're going to be quick to accuse people of crimes, you should be just as quick to take it back again, and maybe you should make an extra effort to make up for being so wrong" is that, if you're getting something that seems inexplicably less expensive than what everyone else in the market is offering, there's probably a reason for it.


----------



## Waves77

tomstork said:


> Yes, that pretty much sums it up.
> 
> And the accusations that they were running a scam, calls to bring in postal inspectors, calling in local cops all go way beyond what was called for.
> 
> Yes, he should have been called back sooner. I have to think that Pride would admit that, too.
> 
> The main point of what I'm saying, other than "if you're going to be quick to accuse people of crimes, you should be just as quick to take it back again, and maybe you should make an extra effort to make up for being so wrong" is that, if you're getting something that seems inexplicably less expensive than what everyone else in the market is offering, there's probably a reason for it.


Are you in any way or form related to Pride? 

I'd be interested to see if one of the mods would be willing to see if your ip number is from the TN area.


----------



## tomstork

Waves77 said:


> First time posting and you registered to defend Pride... geeze, that's not suspicious at all....
> 
> They lied several times about what they were doing, delivered substandard products, from the sound of it even committed mail fraud and never even replied to their voicemails, even though they had plenty of time to post to twitter and facebook several times a day?
> 
> Give me freaking break....


As I said, I have a frame still on order from them. And it's been a while, and the responses to my notes haven't been as quick as I'd have hoped. But when I've talked to David, he's sounded to me like a straightforward guy, and everything about them seems to check out. Maybe I've been duped, but I don't think so.

But in any case, I think we've now established they didn't commit mail fraud. And here we see what I was talking about in my post--coyotegulch and the other responders toss these terms around, and then the frame actually arrives, appears to be fixed, and we don't hear any sort of retraction, except, maybe I'll post something after I get the frame built up.

No excuses from me for their communication, but it took me about three minutes on FB and Twitter to figure out that it's a different person (presumably an employee) who is posting their messages. Probably not how I'd have the employee spend his time -- I'd ask him to answer phone messages and emails -- but it doesn't look to me like it's David Atkins who's doing the posting.


----------



## tomstork

Waves77 said:


> Are you in any way or form related to Pride?
> 
> I'd be interested to see if one of the mods would be willing to see if your ip number is from the TN area.


I'm in Arlington, Virginia. Not related to Pride, except having a bike on order from them. (Which is why I started following the thread.)

And I'm willing to cut a guy who's trying to start a business a little bit of slack. Unlike you, apparently. Have you ever talked to them? Why do *you* have such an interest in the whole issue?


----------



## Waves77

tomstork said:


> But in any case, I think we've now established they didn't commit mail frauds,


Lying about shipping stuff out and giving out possible fake tracking numbers is mail fraud as far as I know.

I'm curious to see the frames when they arrive too, hopefully it won't be another lemon (as had already happened before).


----------



## tomstork

Waves77 said:


> Lying about shipping stuff out and giving out possible fake tracking numbers is mail fraud as far as I know.
> 
> I'm curious to see the frames when they arrive too, hopefully it won't be another lemon (as had already happened before).


Um, lying about shipping stuff -- did we determine for sure that that's what happened? -- is lying. And in my book, if you follow it up with actually shipping the stuff, then it's more like fibbing -- or being misinformed by whoever was supposed to do the shipping for you.

Believe me, I'm very interested to see the frames when they arrive, too. But I'm also very interested in knowing what actually happened -- it seems like we're getting only one side of the story.


----------



## JustTooBig

tomstork said:


> ....
> But in any case, I think we've now established they didn't commit mail fraud. And here we see what I was talking about in my post--coyotegulch and the other responders toss these terms around, and then the frame actually arrives, appears to be fixed, and we don't hear any sort of retraction, except, maybe I'll post something after I get the frame built up.....


what else do you expect the OP to say other than "OK, the frame has arrived.."? What kind of retraction do you expect? Outside of a basic inspection of the welds and build quality, he's not in a position to make any evaluation beyond that. 

Have you ever built up a bike from a bare frame? "I'll post something after I get the frame built up" is a very common thing to say since there's virtually nothing to evaluate based on a bare frame.


----------



## tomstork

Of course he can't judge how the bike is set up.

But how about, "OK, the frame arrived -- so, um, maybe I should have waited until I actually talked to them before I started posting about how they screwed me out of my money."

Of course, it would have been better still if he'd actually waited without posting.

The whole point is that there might have been a reasonable reason why 1) they had some building mistakes -- including getting sketchy specs from customers; 2) they didn't do especially well at returning calls at a time when they were having trouble meeting deadlines; 3) the frame didn't come through the first time they said it had been shipped. The fact that the frame did actually show up would make me more inclined to think that. Small businesses do things without an awful lot of margin for error, and one bad employee and a personal illness/injury could really knock a small firm off balance for weeks.

But the whole gang of posters here piled on, assuming this was some kind of scam or something that the local law enforcement, postal inspectors, etc should have been brought into immediately. And we don't know how things are going to work out at this point, but I have a sneaking suspicion people are going to be a lot less interested in weighing in if things turn out okay -- but the thread will be here forever.

Maybe I'm being a dope for thinking that there's another side to this story, but their website shows a ton of different frames in pictures, and David Atkins shows up on YouTube in Lightspeed frame-building video clips, etc. I don't know a thing about the people posting on this thread.


----------



## Jetmugg

It sounds like as the pressure mounted against Pride (negative internet image, visits from local PD, contact from BBB), they were essentially "forced" to make good on at least a portion of what they had been promising their pre-paid customers.

Multiple people here would have no reason to make up VERY similar stories about Pride providing false UPS and USPS shipping information, dodging phone calls, and generally giving the run-around. There would be no incentive, other than to get what they were promised in the first place.

There is no vast conspiracy to sully the name of Pride, they did it themselves through their own actions.

My 2 cents,

SteveM.


----------



## 18usc371

tomstork said:


> Um, lying about shipping stuff -- did we determine for sure that that's what happened? -- is lying. And in my book, if you follow it up with actually shipping the stuff, then it's more like fibbing -- or being misinformed by whoever was supposed to do the shipping for you.
> 
> Believe me, I'm very interested to see the frames when they arrive, too. But I'm also very interested in knowing what actually happened -- it seems like we're getting only one side of the story.



Tomstork, I was following your point of view and respecting it, though I didn't agree. But bit about lying/fibbing - sunk it for me.


----------



## 18usc371

Jetmugg said:


> It sounds like as the pressure mounted against Pride (negative internet image, visits from local PD, contact from BBB), they were essentially "forced" to make good on at least a portion of what they had been promising their pre-paid customers.



Right on the money.


----------



## SystemShock

Jetmugg said:


> There is no vast conspiracy to sully the name of Pride, they did it themselves through their own actions.


Reading through the thread, that sounds about right.


/ the I-just-started-posting lone Pride fanboi notwithstanding
.


----------



## ColoRoadie

I highly suspect a Pride owner has joined our ranks. I have seldom seen such a clear cut example of shilling in my life. To defend a company that has acted in the manner described by several clients in here? Fibs? Are you freakin kidding me? Fib with your own money...when it's someone else's money, its called LYING.

No, it's not normal behavior to defend strangers so fervently. There is some connection there, whether our brand new member admits it or not.


----------



## 18usc371

ColoRoadie said:


> I highly suspect a Pride owner has joined our ranks. I have seldom seen such a clear cut example of shilling in my life. To defend a company that has acted in the manner described by several clients in here? Fibs? Are you freakin kidding me? Fib with your own money...when it's someone else's money, its called LYING.
> 
> No, it's not normal behavior to defend strangers so fervently. There is some connection there, whether our brand new member admits it or not.


If he is a shill, he's a very poor one. This thread is all about two Pride customers who experienced delays, run around, and poor communication. Tomstark admits he too has experienced delay and spotty communication from Pride. He's validating their complaints.


----------



## Fivethumbs

Is Tom Stark related to Tony Stark? I wonder if he could get me an autograph.


----------



## roshea

motloc said:


> So, in all seriousness I will update this thread tomorrow with pictures of the frame I get. Honestly I really hope the frame is nice (and that the other two guys on this thread get their frames), and that I can post good reviews about Pride. The last thing I wanted was to bad mouth a small frame builder, but enough was enough. Anyway, I'll post something tomorrow.


Any news or pics please?


----------



## tomstork

SystemShock said:


> Reading through the thread, that sounds about right.
> 
> 
> / the I-just-started-posting lone Pride fanboi notwithstanding
> .


Nobody said there was a conspiracy. A lot of people who, because they're anonymous and posting on-line, don't worry much about going off half-cocked, maybe. Actually, probably only a handful of them.

Realistically, people who are satisfied with their stuff don't post on threads like this, because 1) they have better things to do, or 2) they don't want to get flamed. So the audience is pretty biased against stuff being discussed.

As far as how many complaints we actually have, I think we have two -- and at least one of them has since gotten his frame. The other one hasn't had much to say for a couple days, and I'm not sure what happened to him.


----------



## tomstork

ColoRoadie said:


> I highly suspect a Pride owner has joined our ranks. I have seldom seen such a clear cut example of shilling in my life. To defend a company that has acted in the manner described by several clients in here? Fibs? Are you freakin kidding me? Fib with your own money...when it's someone else's money, its called LYING.
> 
> No, it's not normal behavior to defend strangers so fervently. There is some connection there, whether our brand new member admits it or not.


Thanks for pointing out what you think is normal.  

I said I have a frame on order from them -- you "highly suspect" something I already came out and said. If you think that someone impatient and unhappy enough about something to post on a discussion forum about it is going to give you a perfectly clear, unbiased report about what happened, then I've got news for you -- there's often two sides to every story.

I'm not trying to be a good shill, or an obvious shill. I'm trying to point out that we've gotten one side of a story that still isn't over, from some very unhappy people who don't have complete information themselves, and may not accurately represent the information they do have.


----------



## tomstork

Fivethumbs said:


> Is Tom Stark related to Tony Stark? I wonder if he could get me an autograph.


Not related, but I'm considering being a shill for him...


----------



## tomstork

18usc371 said:


> Tomstork, I was following your point of view and respecting it, though I didn't agree. But bit about lying/fibbing - sunk it for me.


[shrug] I'm not sure if we agree or not. The main point is that the guy apparently had an unreliable employee and some other problems -- and he did eventually did send out a frame that at least appears to be okay.

I'm actually not all that comfortable defending a company when 1) they didn't ask me to do it; 2) I'm not sure what the actual story is.

All I know is that they've seemed straight when I've dealt with them, and that I can come up with a pretty reasonable story that could explain everything I've heard has happened, without Pride cheating people. I guess it means something to me to make sure that I've got my facts straight before I start accusing someone of being a crook -- I'm funny that way.


----------



## crossracer

I for one am glad the OP posted about this company. Bad business is bad business, pure and simple. The OP had to go thru hell to get his frame, he was more than understanding and his posts reflect that. The frame arrived wrong (as did other posters here) (Upsided down cantiliever mounts, sloppy sloppy sloppy)

It sounds like the owner of Pride is about as good with building frames as he is with customer relations. Because he didnt fullfill his end of the bargin there is now a large amount of bad press ad people who will not deal with him. In the end the owner of Pride has no one but himself to blame for bad workmanship and bad business practices. 

Bill


----------



## 18usc371

tomstork said:


> [shrug] I'm not sure if we agree or not. The main point is that the guy apparently had an unreliable employee and some other problems -- and he did eventually did send out a frame that at least appears to be okay.
> 
> I'm actually not all that comfortable defending a company when 1) they didn't ask me to do it; 2) I'm not sure what the actual story is.
> 
> All I know is that they've seemed straight when I've dealt with them, and that I can come up with a pretty reasonable story that could explain everything I've heard has happened, without Pride cheating people. I guess it means something to me to make sure that I've got my facts straight before I start accusing someone of being a crook -- I'm funny that way.


We don't agree - but I understand your POV, and respect it. You have not had a overly negative experience with Pride and are willing to continue to give them the benefit of the doubt - fair enough. 

So . . . 

1. I don't think you are shill.

2. You have not established, "the guy apparently had an unreliable employee" That's just the theory you're assigning to it.

3. After getting the run around and no communication, or "fibbing" communication (commonly know as lying), it is reasonable to believe as a consumer you are about to be or are being ripped off. See that guy over there climbing through your living room window? Yes, he is a burglar.

4. Who cares how the frame rides or quality of the welds now? The complaints stem from the crappy customer service. 

5. The sentiment, "You got the frame eventually, who cares if they lied to you along the way" doesn't fly with me - I'm funny that way.

6. Not only did they have every right to get the authorities involved, if the complainants where full of BS, they face consequence of lying such as filing a false police report or lying to a federal agent (18usc1001). I guess they could just tell the Postal Inspectors they were "fibbing."

7. You're right, this thread will remain an internet artifact for a long time for potential Pride customers to review. They can read the read the 70+ posts, evaluate the complaints, your counter-points, visit their website, talk to "Dave", etc., and draw their own conclusion. 

8. Considering this whole tread is about Pride's poor customer service and even you admit they are taking longer and have communication issues, and an "unreliable employee and some other problems" - Caveat Emptor!

9. Lifetime/Transferable Warranty? Considering the complaints and your own experience in just the initial transaction, good luck with that!


----------



## tomstork

18usc371 said:


> We don't agree - but I understand your POV, and respect it. You have not had a overly negative experience with Pride and are willing to continue to give them the benefit of the doubt - fair enough.
> 
> So . . .
> 
> 1. I don't think you are shill.
> 
> 2. You have not established, "the guy apparently had an unreliable employee" That's just the theory you're assigning to it.
> 
> 3. After getting the run around and no communication, or "fibbing" communication (commonly know as lying), it is reasonable to believe as a consumer you are about to be or are being ripped off. See that guy over there climbing through your living room window? Yes, he is a burglar.
> 
> 4. Who cares how the frame rides or quality of the welds now? The complaints stem from the crappy customer service.
> 
> 5. The sentiment, "You got the frame eventually, who cares if they lied to you along the way" doesn't fly with me - I'm funny that way.
> 
> 6. Not only did they have every right to get the authorities involved, if the complainants where full of BS, they face consequence of lying such as filing a false police report or lying to a federal agent (18usc1001). I guess they could just tell the Postal Inspectors they were "fibbing."
> 
> 7. You're right, this thread will remain an internet artifact for a long time for potential Pride customers to review. They can read the read the 70+ posts, evaluate the complaints, your counter-points, visit their website, talk to "Dave", etc., and draw their own conclusion.
> 
> 8. Considering this whole tread is about Pride's poor customer service and even you admit they are taking longer and have communication issues, and an "unreliable employee and some other problems" - Caveat Emptor!
> 
> 9. Lifetime/Transferable Warranty? Considering the complaints and your own experience in just the initial transaction, good luck with that!



I think I'm about through posting on this. But I recall that he told one of the OPs -- there are two who have had complaints, I think -- that he had a guy who'd done bad work, and he'd fired that guy. He told me the same thing about a month ago, independently. I still think that could account for a lot of this. If he's not telling the truth, he's being pretty consistent in telling the same story to everyone -- and so is the guy that does the twitter/facebook posts for him. I may be missing something, but I think we still haven't heard a full account of the "false mail tracking information" thing.

Customer service is important, but it's not solely answering emails quickly -- though that certainly helps. One of Frank Lloyd Wright's clients complained that his roof leaked. Wright responded, "that's how you know it's a roof." You put up with different things in exchange for different outcomes. If you aren't willing to put up with any difficulties at all, then you probably shouldn't be looking to a startup that offers an $1150 custom Ti frame, because you ought to figure there's some reason why they offer it to you for 1/3 the price of established firms.


----------



## coyotegulch

*The saga continues....*

Well went to pick my bike up today and guess what? The rear brake boss issue is fixed, but in a way that my shop has not seen before, but it works. The rear hanger however is still off center, so I called David from the shop and the mechanic and I both spoke with him. He assured me that he personally lined it up. Well on further review, the hanger is off because the left seat stay has an 8mm greater bend in it than the right. The guys at my LBS used two different frame alignment methods to measure it. This is why I waited to post a final comment until after the frame was built, despite being derided by other posters for not exonerating Pride for finally delivering a frame. 

So I calld David again and he asked that I send it back to him, again. It will go back to them again Monday. I am now out over $200 in shop charges for building and stripping the frame multiple times. 

David was very nice on the phone, but I am really tired of the situation and I almost don't want to look at the bike again.


----------



## tomstork

Well, that's a drag. I hope they fix it and make up for it.


----------



## Waves77

tomstork said:


> Well, that's a drag. I hope they fix it and make up for it.


A "drag"? Dude, pull your head out of your behind.


----------



## SystemShock

tomstork said:


> Nobody said there was a conspiracy. A lot of people who, because they're anonymous and posting on-line, don't worry much about going off half-cocked, maybe. Actually, probably only a handful of them.
> 
> Realistically, people who are satisfied with their stuff don't post on threads like this, because 1) they have better things to do, or 2) they don't want to get flamed. So the audience is pretty biased against stuff being discussed.
> 
> As far as how many complaints we actually have, I think we have two -- and at least one of them has since gotten his frame. The other one hasn't had much to say for a couple days, and I'm not sure what happened to him.



So, how are the medical benefits @Pride? Do they pay you well?

Now, you probably don't like what I did there... i.e. be dismissive of your entire PoV by painting you a particular way.
Sadly, that's what you've been doing to others this entire thread.

Doesn't feel so good, now does it?

Anyways, this thread has convinced me that my next bike won't be a Pride. And that's not just because of the problems and non-existent communication the OP and others encountered, but also partly a result of the actions of the 'Pride-defenders'. Doesn't sound like a club I'd want to join, if y'all are gonna be like that. 
.


----------



## SystemShock

tomstork said:


> Customer service is important, but it's not solely answering emails quickly -- though that certainly helps. One of Frank Lloyd Wright's clients complained that his roof leaked. Wright responded, "that's how you know it's a roof." You put up with different things in exchange for different outcomes.
> 
> If you aren't willing to put up with any difficulties at all, then you probably shouldn't be looking to a startup that offers an $1150 custom Ti frame, because you ought to figure there's some reason why they offer it to you for 1/3 the price of established firms.


1) Pride is no Frank Lloyd Wright. 

2) In your last sentence, you're basically saying, "It's okay if they do wrong/sub-standard work, because you're getting it for cheap."

:skep:
.


----------



## tomstork

SystemShock said:


> So, how are the medical benefits @Pride? Do they pay you well?
> 
> Now, you probably don't like what I did there... i.e. be dismissive of your entire PoV by painting you a particular way.
> Sadly, that's what you've been doing to others this entire thread.
> 
> Doesn't feel so good, now does it?
> 
> Anyways, this thread has convinced me that my next bike won't be a Pride. And that's not just because of the problems and non-existent communication the OP and others encountered, but also partly a result of the actions of the 'Pride-defenders'. Doesn't sound like a club I'd want to join, if y'all are gonna be like that.
> .


Honestly? I'm really not all that concerned about what you say or choose to buy/not buy. I thought I'd point out that a lot of people were jumping to ill-informed conclusions, in case reasonable people were reading the threads. Cheers.


----------



## tomstork

SystemShock said:


> 1) Pride is no Frank Lloyd Wright.
> 
> 2) In your last sentence, you're basically saying, "It's okay if they do wrong/sub-standard work, because you're getting it for cheap."
> 
> :skep:
> .


No, I'm saying that you might expect/put up with a little more difficulty in dealing with a startup firm, if they give you a very good deal. coyotegulch's story isn't over yet.


----------



## SystemShock

tomstork said:


> Honestly? I'm really not all that concerned about what you say or choose to buy/not buy. I thought I'd point out that a lot of people were jumping to ill-informed conclusions, in case reasonable people were reading the threads. Cheers.


For someone who's not concerned, you sure are putting out a lot of effort to defend/be an apologist for Pride.
.


----------



## tomstork

Waves77 said:


> A "drag"? Dude, pull your head out of your behind.


Dude, it's a bike with some problems, not cancer. Leave my behind out of this.


----------



## tomstork

SystemShock said:


> For someone who's not concerned, you sure are putting out a lot of effort to defend/be an apologist for Pride.
> .


Oh, I'm concerned about them -- and my bike from them. I'm just not that concerned about you.


----------



## SystemShock

tomstork said:


> No, I'm saying that you might expect/put up with a little more difficulty in dealing with a startup firm, if they give you a very good deal. coyotegulch's story isn't over yet.


No, but it's been pretty crappy one so far, and not one I think most ppl would want to have to go through even if Pride (finally) makes it right at the very end... something that's still to be determined.

Some admission from you that Pride really screwed the pooch and definitely needs to improve in a few areas would be honest and improve your credibility, but knee-jerk apologists/possible shills don't usually select that route. 
.


----------



## SystemShock

tomstork said:


> Oh, I'm concerned about them -- and my bike from them. I'm just not that concerned about you.


LOL, sure. Which is why you keep responding to almost everything I say. :lol:
.


----------



## Waves77

SystemShock said:


> For someone who's not concerned, you sure are putting out a lot of effort to defend/be an apologist for Pride.
> .


+1

Just humor me for a second. 

Can you please just answer with a yes or no if you are in any way connected to Pride other than "you have a frame on order". It seems you've avoided this question more than once.


----------



## tomstork

SystemShock said:


> No, but it's been pretty crappy one so far, and not one I think most ppl would want to have to go through even if Pride (finally) makes it right at the very end... something that's still to be determined.
> 
> Some admission from you that Pride really screwed the pooch and definitely needs to improve in a few areas would be honest and improve your credibility, but knee-jerk apologists/possible shills don't usually select that route.
> .


Yeah, it has been (a pretty crappy one so far). I think I said as much elsewhere. Your own credibility would be better if you read all of someone's posts before you popped off about them.


----------



## SystemShock

tomstork said:


> Yeah, it has been (a pretty crappy one so far). I think I said as much elsewhere. Your own credibility would be better if you read all of someone's posts before you popped off about them.


Given some of your statements in this thread, that's pretty much the definition of the pot calling the kettle black. 

What's ironic is that you're trying so hard to defend Pride (things are kinda slow at the shop, huh?), but in doing so, you're actually _hurting_ them by keeping this thread at the top of the forum with all of your many hand-waving Pride apologist posts.

So keep up the good work, Ace. :thumbsup:
.


----------



## SystemShock

Waves77 said:


> A "drag"? Dude, pull your head out of your behind.


+1. If you do a Google image search of "Your problem is obvious", there's quite a few pics of Tomstork in action... at least as to how he's been in this thread. 
.


----------



## tomstork

Waves77 said:


> +1
> 
> Just humor me for a second.
> 
> Can you please just answer with a yes or no if you are in any way connected to Pride other than "you have a frame on order". It seems you've avoided this question more than once.


Didn't see this earlier; I thought I'd answered this very early on. No connection whatever other than the frame on order. I've spoken to them on the phone a few times, and exchanged emails.


----------



## brians647

tomstork said:


> Didn't see this earlier; I thought I'd answered this very early on. No connection whatever other than the frame on order. I've spoken to them on the phone a few times, and exchanged emails.


Of course not. We all believe you. Really.
18 posts and 3 pages worth of writing on this forum and every word has been about defending Pride Cycles or whatever it is.

Please do yourself a favor, stop posting on Facebook and the interwebs, get back in that shop and straighten out those frames!


----------



## gearguywb

When I order a custom frame I am willing to pay the bucks and wait the required time. During that time I am very anxious....think a little kid at Christmas. Then the frame comes and I admire the craftsmanship, drool accordingly, and then build it up. The first ride should be magical. You are thinking about how great the process was and that the frame came out exactly as you wanted it...it floats along underneath you...

The number and types of issues that you have had I could not have put up with.  It is time to cut your losses and get a full refund. If you do get a frame that can actually be ridden I would think that most of the red has been rubbed off your candy.

Tom: Really? Lying is ok? Not communicating is ok? Building a sub standard frmae is ok? All because it was less expensive? Those ebay carbon frames must really have a ton of faults based on your logic.


----------



## rx-79g

I think you guys need to realize that Tomstork has a vested interest in Pride Cycles not being scammers. He would like to believe that his deposit is not a fraud, and he is acting on that hope by making a counter argument about what is happening. (And no one here knows exactly what is happening. Some just have louder opinions.)

One thing I've noticed on this board in my short time is the low opinion many forumites have of their fellows. It seems almost impossible to post an opinion or relate a story without being accused of some sort of deceit or underhandedness. Why not give it a rest?


----------



## DanAyo

*I ordered a custom built frame from Pride Cycles 4 weeks ago*

I am horrified at the messages in this thread. 4 weeks ago I ordered a custom built TI frame from Pride Cycles. I was told the frame was completed in 3 weeks. At this time I am unable to comment on the quality, since I have yet to receive the frame. I expect it late this week or next week. David told me the frame was completed last week, but before shipping I elected to go with a Chris King headset and it wasn't in stock so it had to be ordered. Once it comes in the bearing are to pressed into the head tube and then immediately shipped to me.

So far I have been happy with Pride. The only fault I find so far is that communications is slow.

The post on this thread alarmed me so much I called David to discuss. He is aware of this post. He assured me that the frame would arrive as agreed and that I will be happy with the bike. I found him very accommodating when it comes to build options.

I CAN ASSURE ALL ON THIS THREAD,
I will write back as soon as the frame arrives and I will let you know how things turned out.

After talking to David, I believe the frame will be great! If not, I will post my experience in great detail on this thread.

If the post in this thread is true and accurate, you are to be thanked. No one wants to get ripped off. This post is extremely damaging to his family business. I told David that I would not have placed an order with him if I read this thread before the purchase.

If the post is inaccurate, you should be ashamed. David's take on this story is quite a bit different. Hopefully at the appropriate time he will respond concerning these allegations.

Either way, I will let everyone know my experience with Pride Cycles and David Atkins. Both the good, the bad, and the ugly...

Danny Ayo
Thibodaux, LA


----------



## locominute

*the frame... just got photo today*

built 2weeks ago.


----------



## olr1

_Carbon Fiber frames have come a long way in the past few years and they can be molded into some wild shapes. They look pretty and ride great for a few years. Carbon does not fatigue very well, it wears down rather quickly. Truth be told, carbon is great for around 3 years under normal riding conditions. Think of carbon as fancy fiberglass. It is carbon mesh that is all glued together in a mold. The glue, or resin, tends to stretch and fatigue as a result of the cycles of energy being displaced throughout the frame. Simply put, carbon fiber frames just wear out too quickly.



So why is carbon doing so well then? Why are all of these manufacturers pushing carbon? It’s all about money. PRIDE, or anyone, can order carbon frames out of China for less than $300 per frame. The next step is to slap on a fancy paint job and get to marketing so we can sell the frame for upwards of $2000. That’s a lot of profit.



Q: Why don’t all of the frame builders sell carbon models?

A: Some of us are just better than that. We are not into turning a quick buck by selling sub par products and trying to make you believe they are wonderful. We have too much PRIDE for that!_

This pile of steaming BS would have put me off Pride Cycles long before this thread ever did...


----------



## Maximus_XXIV

Dude, those are just fibs. Carbon fiber will disinigrate in 3 years which is why the next generation commercial airliners are being constructed with substantial amounts of carbon. Oh, and the US Air Force is decommissioning their stealth aircraft after they completely disappeared into thin air just leaving engines and nude pilots.


----------



## Maximus_XXIV

On second thought, maybe they just lack integrity...


----------



## SystemShock

brians647 said:


> Of course not. We all believe you. Really.
> 18 posts and 3 pages worth of writing on this forum and every word has been about defending Pride Cycles or whatever it is.
> 
> Please do yourself a favor, stop posting on Facebook and the interwebs, get back in that shop and straighten out those frames!


Yep. And maybe figure out how to use email or how to pick up a phone, so Pride's customers can hear back from their inquiries and actually know what the hell's up. Yeesh.

Is it really _that_ hard? :skep:
.


----------



## ColoRoadie

It took a police visit to get them to respond to clients whose money they had already taken. That in itself is damning beyond any benefit of the doubt. On top of that they missed their own deadlines (poor business management), built at least two faulty and unrideable frames (poor craftsmanship) and SHIPPED THEM (poor quality control). Why exactly would anyone want to buy a frame from them at any price? 

Then you read that ridiculous diatribe on carbon fiber and one has to wonder....does Pride have anyone with any engineering training whatsoever? Carbon breaks down in 3 years? Our military would be very interested in hearing that, as would NASA and every motorized racing series known to man.


----------



## tomstork

ColoRoadie said:


> It took a police visit to get them to respond to clients whose money they had already taken. That in itself is damning beyond any benefit of the doubt. On top of that they missed their own deadlines (poor business management), built at least two faulty and unrideable frames (poor craftsmanship) and SHIPPED THEM (poor quality control). Why exactly would anyone want to buy a frame from them at any price?
> 
> Then you read that ridiculous diatribe on carbon fiber and one has to wonder....does Pride have anyone with any engineering training whatsoever? Carbon breaks down in 3 years? Our military would be very interested in hearing that, as would NASA and every motorized racing series known to man.


A police "visit"-- which resulted in the officer who went out saying that there were people there and it appears to be a going concern (no discussion as to whether there was a conversation of any sort--or about what), happened sometime before they responded to calls, etc -- or simply did what they'd been intending to do all along.

By your reasoning, I should stop having birthdays, because the people on this thread start posting stuff attacking me after my birthday. It is damning beyond any doubt.

A bunch of people on this thread have asked me insinuating questions about my connection to the company -- what is *your *connection to them? Why are you so motivated to draw connections that aren't necessarily there and assume the worst about them? Have you had any contact with them yourself?


----------



## ColoRoadie

tomstork said:


> A police "visit"-- which resulted in the officer who went out saying that there were people there and it appears to be a going concern (no discussion as to whether there was a conversation of any sort--or about what), happened sometime before they responded to calls, etc -- or simply did what they'd been intending to do all along.
> 
> By your reasoning, I should stop having birthdays, because the people on this thread start posting stuff attacking me after my birthday. It is damning beyond any doubt.
> 
> A bunch of people on this thread have asked me insinuating questions about my connection to the company -- what is your connection to them? Why are you so motivated to draw connections that aren't necessarily there and assume the worst about them? Have you had any contact with them yourself?


I have not had any contact with them, and can assure you after reading this thread that I will not. You may have noticed, but you are on an internet forum, in the section on bicycle frames. In this section, we discuss frames and frame manufacturers...the good, the bad and in this case the horrible. I just bought a carbon frame and have for quite some time been interested in a custom Ti frame..which I will buy at some point. That is why I am in here and participating. 

I am not commenting on how a Pride frame rides, as I've never been on one. I am commenting on their business practice, as I own my company and have quite a bit of knowledge in this area. Your dad, or boss, or whatever he is....should hire someone to run the business side of his company. He simply doesn't have the skillset. When a client calls him for a custom frame...there are two questions. How much and how long to build it. Your dad answers those questions. It isn't the client who sets the timeline here, Pride does. If a business gives a deadline to a client and takes their money up front...it's fairly inexcusable to miss that deadline, and completely inexcusable to miss the deadline and then go silent when the client is inquiring about the product they have already paid for.

We're talking about cutting some tubes and welding them together here. It requires a skillset, to be sure, but we're not talking about anything that should require the amount of time these customers are waiting beyond their deadline...not even bringing up the QC nightmares. Before you get wound up in how difficult daddy's fabrication is...you should know that in my business we deal with steel/Al/Ti fabrication on a scale far beyond your company's wildest dreams..and in so doing, I have a pretty good feel for how long it takes to tig two tubes together...even if they are Ti.

I apologize if my having an opinion upsets you. But it's an area I have knowledge in, I'm posting in a section appropriate to the discussion, and this is the Internet afterall....a place where even the not so skilled shill is allowed to post repeatedly.


----------



## DanAyo

*Ordered Pride Custom Frame 4 weeks ago - Ships Today*

I just got word from Pride that the Chris Kind headset they ordered has still not arrived. So this is what he did.
**********Quoting from an email I just rec'd**********
Your headset still hasn't arrived. I have pulled one from a PRIDE frame that is
2 months old (NO CHARGE). I will ship and send you the tracking number if
this is satisfactory to you. I have attached a pic of the frame. We really 
appreciate your business and patience. 

David/Pam Atkins
PRIDE CYCLES
**********End Quote from an email I just rec'd**********

I personally think that was extremely nice. So far my experience with Pride has been great.

Once the frame arrives I will post again, letting all know my findings.

I did post an image on the web of my frame. 
NOTE: the purpose of the image is to show the Chris King headset for my approval, thus the frame was cropped on the rear.
See image at
https://www.jwtoups.com/PrideCustomFrame.jpg


Upon initially reading this thread I went from thrilled with Pride to very concerned that I had been taken. After talking with David and seeing the continued process to delivery I am now excited to take delivery of my first custom frame, and TI at that!

I will post my findings as soon as the frame arrives.

Dan Ayo
Thibodaux, LA


----------



## locominute

in chattanooga now per UPS

looks okay..


----------



## T K

DanAyo said:


> I just got word from Pride that the Chris Kind headset they ordered has still not arrived. So this is what he did.
> **********Quoting from an email I just rec'd**********
> Your headset still hasn't arrived. I have pulled one from a PRIDE frame that is
> 2 months old (NO CHARGE). I will ship and send you the tracking number if
> this is satisfactory to you. I have attached a pic of the frame. We really
> appreciate your business and patience.
> 
> David/Pam Atkins
> PRIDE CYCLES
> **********End Quote from an email I just rec'd**********
> 
> I personally think that was extremely nice. So far my experience with Pride has been great.
> 
> Once the frame arrives I will post again, letting all know my findings.
> 
> I did post an image on the web of my frame.
> NOTE: the purpose of the image is to show the Chris King headset for my approval, thus the frame was cropped on the rear.
> See image at
> https://www.jwtoups.com/PrideCustomFrame.jpg
> 
> 
> Upon initially reading this thread I went from thrilled with Pride to very concerned that I had been taken. After talking with David and seeing the continued process to delivery I am now excited to take delivery of my first custom frame, and TI at that!
> 
> I will post my findings as soon as the frame arrives.
> 
> Dan Ayo
> Thibodaux, LA


After all the bad pub here and the fact that you even mentioned this thread to him, it's hardly shocking he's being all nicey nice to you.
Hope it works out for you.


----------



## SystemShock

ColoRoadie said:


> I have not had any contact with them, and can assure you after reading this thread that I will not. You may have noticed, but you are on an internet forum, in the section on bicycle frames. In this section, we discuss frames and frame manufacturers...the good, the bad and in this case the horrible. I just bought a carbon frame and have for quite some time been interested in a custom Ti frame..which I will buy at some point. That is why I am in here and participating.
> 
> I am not commenting on how a Pride frame rides, as I've never been on one. I am commenting on their business practice, as I own my company and have quite a bit of knowledge in this area. Your dad, or boss, or whatever he is....should hire someone to run the business side of his company. He simply doesn't have the skillset. When a client calls him for a custom frame...there are two questions. How much and how long to build it. Your dad answers those questions. It isn't the client who sets the timeline here, Pride does. If a business gives a deadline to a client and takes their money up front...it's fairly inexcusable to miss that deadline, and completely inexcusable to miss the deadline and then go silent when the client is inquiring about the product they have already paid for.
> 
> We're talking about cutting some tubes and welding them together here. It requires a skillset, to be sure, but we're not talking about anything that should require the amount of time these customers are waiting beyond their deadline...not even bringing up the QC nightmares. Before you get wound up in how difficult daddy's fabrication is...you should know that in my business we deal with steel/Al/Ti fabrication on a scale far beyond your company's wildest dreams..and in so doing, I have a pretty good feel for how long it takes to tig two tubes together...even if they are Ti.
> 
> I apologize if my having an opinion upsets you. But it's an area I have knowledge in, I'm posting in a section appropriate to the discussion, and this is the Internet afterall....a place where even the not so skilled shill is allowed to post repeatedly.



Sums it up. It's possible that Pride makes a decent frame (well, we'll eventually know that, if they ever ship that guy an actual _straight_ one), but their business practices and communication flat suck, and they really need to improve there. 

Hopefully they catch the clue and fix the root problem, instead of thinking that sending out Sammy Shill to defend them is a solution. 
It isn't, it just further propagates the bad publicity they're now getting.
.


----------



## rx-79g

Most of the "commenting" on this thread is by third parties reacting to second hand information. There are more theories running around here than at an Intelligent Design seminar.

The great thing about forums are that people with EXPERIENCE with a company can share that experience. The problem with forums are all the people with no experience with that company, but a lot of opinions about what they're reading. So the end product is a nasty thread where even the people directly involved get treated like crap by the forum they are encouraged to post their experience on.

So instead of a short thread that someone looking at Pride can read, we have this monster, where Pride purchasers are being heckled. It's ridiculous. 

I would not post my experiences of this type on this board. Why expose yourself to ridicule just to warn your fellow forum members?


----------



## SystemShock

rx-79g said:


> So instead of a short thread that someone looking at Pride can read, we have this monster, where Pride purchasers are being heckled. It's ridiculous.
> 
> I would not post my experiences of this type on this board. Why expose yourself to ridicule just to warn your fellow forum members?


I agree that Sammy Shill should stop heckling the Pride purchasers that are simply reporting their bad experiences with Pride. 

If I had a problem though, I wouldn't hesitate to post it here, shills n' all... I don't intimidate easily.

Far as ppl on the other side jumping in and counterattacking the shill, I think that's to be expected. No one likes to have someone pee on their shoes and tell 'em that it's raining.
.


----------



## ColoRoadie

rx-79g said:


> Most of the "commenting" on this thread is by third parties reacting to second hand information. There are more theories running around here than at an Intelligent Design seminar.
> 
> The great thing about forums are that people with EXPERIENCE with a company can share that experience. The problem with forums are all the people with no experience with that company, but a lot of opinions about what they're reading. So the end product is a nasty thread where even the people directly involved get treated like crap by the forum they are encouraged to post their experience on.
> 
> So instead of a short thread that someone looking at Pride can read, we have this monster, where Pride purchasers are being heckled. It's ridiculous.
> 
> I would not post my experiences of this type on this board. Why expose yourself to ridicule just to warn your fellow forum members?


If you scroll to the top of this page, there is a review button that takes you to a review section. The part of the board that you are now reading, however, is a discussion section....where people go to discuss frames etc. When you walk up to a group of coworkers at the water cooler, do you start talking and expect them all to sit quietly and just hear you, or do discussions in your neck of the world happen the same as everywhere else? It's a conversation...people talk about what they know and it doesn't always follow the course it originally set off on. Same as in the real world. Same as any other forum on the internet. 

I haven't seen any of the customers who posted in here being ridiculed by any members who have been here longer than this thread. I've seen a guy who quite clearly isn't what he claims to be reaping what he sows....but then, that's life on the internet as well. If his only posts on the entire site are in defense of a builder who just _happened_ to find out that same day he joined of the existence of this thread....it's going to seem fishy. If he then says that fibbing about a customers money isn't the same as lying and that the client should be understanding instead of posting in a frame discussion forum....well, now he's just being obvious and you can't blame the forum for calling BS.


----------



## rx-79g

ColoRoadie said:


> If you scroll to the top of this page, there is a review button that takes you to a review section. The part of the board that you are now reading, however, is a discussion section....where people go to discuss frames etc. When you walk up to a group of coworkers at the water cooler, do you start talking and expect them all to sit quietly and just hear you, or do discussions in your neck of the world happen the same as everywhere else? It's a conversation...people talk about what they know and it doesn't always follow the course it originally set off on. Same as in the real world. Same as any other forum on the internet.
> 
> I haven't seen any of the customers who posted in here being ridiculed by any members who have been here longer than this thread. I've seen a guy who quite clearly isn't what he claims to be reaping what he sows....but then, that's life on the internet as well. If your only posts on the entire site are in defense of a builder who just happened to find out that same day of the existence of this thread....it's going to seem fishy. If he then says that fibbing about a customers money isn't the same as lying and that the client should be understanding instead of posting in a frame discussion forum....well, now he's just being obvious and you can't blame the forum for calling BS.


If what you're saying is true, then a Mod can very easily clear this up by checking the ISP of the person in question.

Until then, I'd prefer to take people at their word, rather than assuming you are a Litespeed employee trying to make a Pride defender look bad.


----------



## tomstork

ColoRoadie said:


> ...I am commenting on their business practice, as I own my company and have quite a bit of knowledge in this area...


Yeah, whatever. And you got all of your clients through your personal charm and careful reading and analytic skills, right?


----------



## SystemShock

rx-79g said:


> If what you're saying is true, then a Mod can very easily clear this up by checking the ISP of the person in question.
> 
> Until then, I'd prefer to take people at their word, rather than assuming you are a Litespeed employee trying to make a Pride defender look bad.


We can go 'round on 'round on this. If you're going to say he's a Litespeed employee, well, for all we know, you're yet another Pride employee. I don't think you are, but it's possible. What of it, beyond the fact that its developing into an amusing and ever-escalating game of paranoia? 

All I know is, some guys have posted their negative experiences with Pride. A Pride shill or fanboy then attacked them, then several ppl on the forum counterattacked the shill.

That's the Internet... isn't gonna change anytime soon. Crying about it won't help much.
.


----------



## tomstork

SystemShock said:


> I agree that Sammy Shill should stop heckling the Pride purchasers that are simply reporting their bad experiences with Pride.
> 
> If I had a problem though, I wouldn't hesitate to post it here, shills n' all... I don't intimidate easily.
> 
> Far as ppl on the other side jumping in and counterattacking the shill, I think that's to be expected. No one likes to have someone pee on their shoes and tell 'em that it's raining.
> .


I'm not sure where I ended up being a shill. I've been a lot more up-front about what equity I have in this discussion than you or any of the other apparently uninvolved critics have been. And if you or any of your critical partners would bother to read carefully, you'd notice I didn't attack anyone (well, maybe insinuating that Coloroady lacks personal charm and doesn't read very well doesn't count); I just pointed out that there were pretty reasonable explanations that didn't involve Pride's owners being criminals and cheats. Explanations that, in the grand scheme of things, seem more likely to be the case than the worst-case theories that a number of posters have put up here. Occam's Razor. 

This is my last post; I'm not sure that I did Pride much good, and they certainly didn't ask me to get involved. I just thought they deserved a break. Good luck with your next 8,000 posts.


----------



## AtlantaR6

DanAyo said:


> Your headset still hasn't arrived. I have pulled one from a PRIDE frame that is 2 months old (NO CHARGE).


That was probably Tom Storks bike.:8:


----------



## 18usc371

SystemShock said:


> We can go 'round on 'round on this. If you're going to say he's a Litespeed employee, well, for all we know, you're yet another Pride employee. I don't think you are, but it's possible. What of it, beyond the fact that its developing into an amusing and ever-escalating game of paranoia?
> 
> All I know is, some guys have posted their negative experiences with Pride. A Pride shill or fanboy then attacked them, then several ppl on the forum counterattacked the shill.
> 
> That's the Internet... isn't gonna change anytime soon. Crying about it won't help much.
> .


Yup, this thread would have died way back at post 60, until Tomstork jumped to attack. Now it's 13th out of 11,472! And will soon top 6000 views. Ironic, the Pride supporters are keeping it alive. With friends like them . . . 

It's funny when you say, "That's the Internet... isn't gonna change anytime soon." Yet, many act as if this was their first day on the internet and first day on BB:

"Oh my, is this how this internet thingy works?"

"I've said my opinion, now everyone else can be quiet!" 

"Who knows if they are telling the truth in the first place."

Welcome to the wilderness.


----------



## SystemShock

tomstork said:


> I'm not sure where I ended up being a shill.


Only every post, pretty much? 



> _And if you or any of your critical partners would bother to read carefully, you'd notice I didn't attack anyone (well, maybe insinuating that Coloroady lacks personal charm and doesn't read very well doesn't count);_


You accused one of the folks who's had problems with Pride of "dragging their name through the mud". You've attacked the credibility and good faith of pretty much anyone who doesn't have 100% good things to say about Pride. I think we know what you're all about by this juncture.



> _I just pointed out that there were pretty reasonable explanations that didn't involve Pride's owners being criminals and cheats._


They may not be criminal and cheats (let's leave the final say on that to the ppl who still need their orders made right), but, pretty incompetent in business matters and awful communicators, at the very least? Yeah, would appear so. 



> _This is my last post; I'm not sure that I did Pride much good, and they certainly didn't ask me to get involved. I just thought they deserved a break. Good luck with your next 8,000 posts._


You did Pride absolutely no favors... if anything, you made a thread highlighting their mistakes/problems a lot more popular than it would've been otherwise.

Better luck on your next 21 posts. Perhaps they can be in the cause of something besides being a knee-jerk apologist.
.


----------



## 18usc371

AtlantaR6 said:


> That was probably Tom Storks bike.:8:


Awesome - best post so far!


----------



## rx-79g

I'd like to know where you guys were when Skyliner1004 was taunting the other Pride customers.


----------



## ColoRoadie

> I'd like to know where you guys were when Skyliner1004 was taunting the other Pride customers.



We were waiting for you, naturally...to instruct us on how it should have been handled. We await your guidance.
.
.


----------



## SystemShock

rx-79g said:


> I'd like to know where you guys were when Skyliner1004 was taunting the other Pride customers.


He got flamed by two other posters, and I've marked him for moderation too. He also got warned by Coolhand.

What else would you like? Us to go to his house and rough him up some?
.


----------



## GirchyGirchy

SystemShock said:


> Reading through the thread, that sounds about right.


I bet they have sneaky old ladies working for them. Bastards.


----------



## rx-79g

ColoRoadie said:


> We were waiting for you, naturally...to instruct us on how it should have been handled. We await your guidance.
> .
> .


You have my guidance:* I recommend against posting personal brand experiences or opinions on this forum*. You'll either get beat up by someone like Skyliner, or you two clowns. I really see very little difference between his behavior and yours. I'm sure all of you think you're champions of justice. 

The wisdom of siding for or against a company that holds your deposit is easy enough for everyone to decide about without the peanut gallery routine. This thread reads like a bunch of middle schoolers wrote it. Congrats.


----------



## SystemShock

rx-79g said:


> You have my guidance:* I recommend against posting personal brand experiences or opinions on this forum*. You'll either get beat up by someone like Skyliner, or you two clowns. I really see very little difference between his behavior and yours. I'm sure all of you think you're champions of justice.
> 
> The wisdom of siding for or against a company that holds your deposit is easy enough for everyone to decide about without the peanut gallery routine. This thread reads like a bunch of middle schoolers wrote it. Congrats.


Sigh. You're not as impartial and 'above it all' as you pretend to be. 

And if ppl were to stop posting their personal experiences or *gasp* opinions, well, there goes the majority of the content of RBR.

Really think that's gonna happen? I seriously doubt it. 

Summed up, there were two miscreants in this thread... one vehemently anti-Pride and and one vehemently pro-Pride. 
_*Both*_ got an unfavorable reaction from the RBR community... as well they should have. 

So, if anything, this thread makes me feel better about RBR and ppl posting their experiences/opinions, not less. 

Crying about how mean the Internets can be notwithstanding. RBR is a bastion of reasonableness compared to some sites I've seen. 
.


----------



## DanAyo

*This is what I know about TomStork*

I wanted to make sure I knew exactly what a "shill' meant so I looked it up.
A shill is a person who helps another person or organization to sell goods or services without disclosing their relationship with the seller. The shill pretends to have no association with the seller/group and gives onlookers the impression that he or she is an enthusiastic independent customer. 

I am a customer of Pride Cycles. You can read my previous replies.

I know that TomStork is what he says he is because when I called Pride yesterday and spoke with David Atkins he mentioned that he was headed to the powder coater to have a frame repainted. Later during the conversation I mentioned this thread and asked him if he knew TomStork. He told me that it was his frame that was being powder coated. So I know he is a present customer.

You may or may not like his replies, but I can assure you he is what he says he is.

You have the right to criticize his statments, but lets drop the "shill".

Both Tom and I have frames on order from Pride. My frame was shipped yesterday and as stated before, I will report my findings. I trust Tom will do the same.

Opinions can make for interesting reading, but the TRUTH is what really counts. Many people will read this thread searching for knowledge about Pride. If Pride is incompetent, then this forum serves well to spread the word. I'd hate to see anyone cheated of his or her hard earned money and dream. But if Pride is providing what they claim, affordable custom built frames, then lets get that out in the open also.

Prior to this thread, and a smaller thread that I think migrated over to this one, I was unable to find any negative information concerning Pride Cycles USA.

Lets get down to the truth. Hopefully future posters to this thread will be those with direct experience with Pride. It appears from the lack of actual threads from Pride owners, both good or bad, that they have yet to discover this thread. I know if I got ripped off, I would loudly tell my story here. The same if I was a happy customer. Hopefully we get more people stating what they know and less of what they think.

I WANT THE TRUTH
And so do propective buyers...

Danny Ayo


----------



## PlatyPius

SystemShock said:


> RBR is a bastion of reasonableness compared to some sites I've seen.
> .


Only because there's a hair-trigger on the banhammer....


----------



## rx-79g

Systemshock,

You know, I'm not super impartial. But I also read all of Tomstork's posts, and I don't think its a fact that he is anything more than someone stupidly optimistic because the alternative is that he's screwed out of a lot of money.

As someone who claims to be a Pride customer, I'd rather find out what he has to say about Pride than 2 guys who have absolutely no stake in this at all, and are shouting him down. You two have already pointed out that your interactions with Tomstork have needlessly extended this thread. He posts because he has strong feelings. You guys post because you want to sound like the smartest guys in the room.

There's a nice thread right now about a guy looking for a steel bike. Why don't you go tell him to ride carbon or something? Then if he makes a choice you don't like, you can call him a shill.


----------



## GirchyGirchy

rx-79g said:


> You have my guidance:* I recommend against posting personal brand experiences or opinions on this forum*. You'll either get beat up by someone like Skyliner, or you two clowns. I really see very little difference between his behavior and yours. I'm sure all of you think you're champions of justice.
> 
> The wisdom of siding for or against a company that holds your deposit is easy enough for everyone to decide about without the peanut gallery routine. This thread reads like a bunch of middle schoolers wrote it. Congrats.


I'm not seeing your point - without personal experiences being posted here, others may have been screwed over by Pride. From what we can see this thread has really helped things along in terms of getting the company to respond to the posters having issues. It wouldn't be the first time on here people have come together to expose issues with companies, often to end up at a positive outcome.

You have to admit it's suspicious when someone comes out of nowhere and starts praising Jesus for Pride as a company, in a thread with members having multiple issues, it's just a tiny bit suspicious. FWIW I don't think he's a shill, his posts don't read that way. I just think he's a customer defending some obviously very poor customer service.

But that's right, we should always take people at their word, I forgot. That thread in General about the asploding Trek, where you jumped on many for not being trustworthy - how'd that turn out again?

But hey, if you simply want just a bunch of marketing BS rather than opinions on brands, go hang out at manufacturers' sites. And I do find your "champion of justice" statement ironic, considering your post.


----------



## SystemShock

PlatyPius said:


> Only because there's a hair-trigger on the banhammer....


True dat. :lol:
.


----------



## JustTooBig

rx-79g said:


> You have my guidance:* I recommend against posting personal brand experiences or opinions on this forum*. You'll either get beat up by someone like Skyliner, or you two clowns. I really see very little difference between his behavior and yours. I'm sure all of you think you're champions of justice.
> 
> The wisdom of siding for or against a company that holds your deposit is easy enough for everyone to decide about without the peanut gallery routine. This thread reads like a bunch of middle schoolers wrote it. Congrats.


OK, here's the deal: those of us who have been around for a while have gotten the opportunity to learn quite a bit about some of the personalities on the forums. Some folks, with posts and behaviors ranging from douchebaggery to trolling to flaming to ... etc, etc., lose any credibility they may have started with. They essentially get ignored by many, and may not necessarily be directly engaged or called out for their behaviors because no one cares or listens to what they have to say any more. Many of the strongest opinions are (poorly) expressed by people whose posts aren't given much attention in the first place. If you hang around for a while, you'll discover that there is a lot of worthwhile discussion and debate going on around here. And the "ignore list" can eliminate some of the childish content that seems to bother you so much.

Another way of losing some credibility is to show up at a random forum and immediately begin to criticize the forum and its members. Even if someone has opinions and insight that others would benefit from, it may be lost behind a pretentious, condescending attitude that turns others off.


----------



## SystemShock

rx-79g said:


> You know, I'm not super impartial. But I also read all of Tomstork's posts, and I don't think its a fact that he is anything more than someone stupidly optimistic because the alternative is that he's screwed out of a lot of money.
> 
> As someone who claims to be a Pride customer, I'd rather find out what he has to say about Pride than 2 guys who have absolutely no stake in this at all, and are shouting him down.


See, that's right where you lose me. Because Tom was trying to shout down the guys who'd been having problems with Pride. He even accused one of 'em of "dragging Pride's name through the mud." For posting his experiences. Wha?

Sorry, but that's not okay. And it's quite understandable why some ppl might have a problem with that kind of behavior, and take him to task for it.

Why you continue to not get this, is beyond me. Sounds like you have some mental skin in this game too, but instead of coming out and admitting it like the rest of us, you'd rather attempt to sermonize from the mountaintop. 

Forgive me if I do not immediately run to fetch a ladder so you can mount your high horse.
.


----------



## GirchyGirchy

rx-79g said:


> Then if he makes a choice you don't like, you can call him a shill.


It wouldn't be the first time - RBR has a fun history with shillage.


----------



## stickney

This thread is increasingly turning into one of the following:

a. A disgruntled former employee's online revenge on Pride cycles
b. A submersive viral marketing effort 
c. A graduate student's online thesis of internet behavior

Can someone post some pics of an actual Pride cycles bike that they own? Even if they had to ship it back because it was flawed? 

Someone has to have one of these bikes and not be either a customer waiting anxiously or a customer upset about their flawed bike.


----------



## ColoRoadie

Of course we all hope that those who have been treated poorly by Pride do get their frames in the end and that all turns out well so that RX can say he told us all so. But, I'm also very aware that according to the posters whose frames were not arriving and whose calls, emails etc were unanswered...nothing was happening at all until the police stepped in and a ton of negative publicity hit the internet. 

That is the best part about a forum such as this one. Coyotegulch sent a link to the owner of the company, he sees that his actions are being discussed in front of thousands of potential customers....and he decides he had better stop ignoring those phone calls and emails. The posters had already:



> filed a complaint with the BBB in their area, the TN consumer affairs division, I contacted the USPS, and I filed a dispute with my cc company


before coming here to warn off others. Then, coincidentally enough...a new member joins. He doesn't post anywhere on RBR but this thread. Isn't apparently interested in RBR's gear sections, or cycling stories or anything other than what is said about Pride in here...and he shouts down those who have spent months trying to get the frames they paid for. 

I don't think it's odd that members noticed how shill like this seems and defended the other members. I think that's human nature at its finest. Tom defended Pride's saying that they shipped frames when they had not as 'FIBS' and not lies and accusing customers who had already gone through such drastic actions before coming here of over reacting. In short, he attacked posters who posted legitimate problems and had to resort to the BBB, police, consumer affairs and finally here to get them resolved and then he defended the company for lying to them. The one frame we know of that was sent pretty much immediately...was not even ride-able. Tom's responses just don't seem rational to me. Something smells funny....so he was called out on it. 

I can start another screen name right now and say I have a Pride frame on order and that they've been great to deal with. That won't negate that at least two others have had to go through enormous effort just to get a response out of Pride. Maybe they clean up their act now and fly straight...but if the doors are open and they have time to twitter and facebook, there is simply no excuse for ignoring clients whose money you have taken.


----------



## SantaCruz

Move it to the LOUNGE - 

The bottom line is - if you are buying custom or from a small builder or over the Interwebs, know your frame builder. By reputation or in person.

I bought custom frames from Craig Calfee and Jon Tallerico years ago because I met them and was convinced of their craftsmanship. My tandem from Co-Motion was purchased based on their reputation. There were delays that I tolerated, that is often the case with small builders.

Let's hope Pride can fix their issues - we need good craftsmen in business in the USA.


----------



## buck-50

rx-79g said:


> You have my guidance:* I recommend against posting personal brand experiences or opinions on this forum*. You'll either get beat up by someone like Skyliner, or you two clowns. I really see very little difference between his behavior and yours. I'm sure all of you think you're champions of justice.
> 
> The wisdom of siding for or against a company that holds your deposit is easy enough for everyone to decide about without the peanut gallery routine. This thread reads like a bunch of middle schoolers wrote it. Congrats.


I'm all for posting personal brand experience.

When I ordered my custom, I was pretty excited. We had an expected delivery date of august. I got it in mid-december. And this is with a builder less than 5 miles from my house. It was frustrating beyond belief as emails would go unanswered for a week or 2 and schedules kept getting pushed back further and further.

I got an amazing frame, and that's what really matters. BUT, if anyone asked me about working with that builder, I'd say excellent product, lousy communications and scheduling. Probably worth the hassle.

Custom bikes aren't like bike shop bikes. There's no return, there's no real test-tide- you're putting a lot of faith in someone to deliver what you asked for and to make a bunch of measurements turn into a bike that fits and handles like a dream. Knowing there's issues ahead of time is important.


----------



## krisdrum

I just want to know why all the frame stickers pictured so far are different. Different orientation of flag between seat tube and down tube stickers and the flag in background of top tube sticker instead of inside letters. Looks amateurish.


----------



## HMBAtrail

rx-79g said:


> There's a nice thread right now about a guy looking for a steel bike. Why don't you go tell him to ride carbon or something?


For the love of God don't do that. You'll scare away all my customers.


----------



## raymonda

rx-79g said:


> Systemshock,
> 
> You know, I'm not super impartial. But I also read all of Tomstork's posts, and I don't think its a fact that he is anything more than someone stupidly optimistic because the alternative is that he's screwed out of a lot of money.
> 
> As someone who claims to be a Pride customer, I'd rather find out what he has to say about Pride than 2 guys who have absolutely no stake in this at all, and are shouting him down. You two have already pointed out that your interactions with Tomstork have needlessly extended this thread. He posts because he has strong feelings. You guys post because you want to sound like the smartest guys in the room.
> 
> There's a nice thread right now about a guy looking for a steel bike. Why don't you go tell him to ride carbon or something? Then if he makes a choice you don't like, you can call him a shill.


+1:thumbsup:


----------



## SystemShock

raymonda said:


> +1:thumbsup:


..-1. .








.


----------



## SystemShock

ColoRoadie said:


> Of course we all hope that those who have been treated poorly by Pride do get their frames in the end and that all turns out well so that RX can say he told us all so. But, I'm also very aware that according to the posters whose frames were not arriving and whose calls, emails etc were unanswered...nothing was happening at all until the police stepped in and a ton of negative publicity hit the internet.
> 
> That is the best part about a forum such as this one. Coyotegulch sent a link to the owner of the company, he sees that his actions are being discussed in front of thousands of potential customers....and he decides he had better stop ignoring those phone calls and emails. The posters had already:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> filed a complaint with the BBB in their area, the TN consumer affairs division, I contacted the USPS, and I filed a dispute with my cc company
> 
> 
> 
> before coming here to warn off others. Then, coincidentally enough...a new member joins. He doesn't post anywhere on RBR but this thread. Isn't apparently interested in RBR's gear sections, or cycling stories or anything other than what is said about Pride in here...and he shouts down those who have spent months trying to get the frames they paid for.
> 
> I don't think it's odd that members noticed how shill like this seems and defended the other members. I think that's human nature at its finest. Tom defended Pride's saying that they shipped frames when they had not as 'FIBS' and not lies and accusing customers who had already gone through such drastic actions before coming here of over reacting. In short, he attacked posters who posted legitimate problems and had to resort to the BBB, police, consumer affairs and finally here to get them resolved and then he defended the company for lying to them. The one frame we know of that was sent pretty much immediately...was not even ride-able. Tom's responses just don't seem rational to me. Something smells funny....so he was called out on it.
> 
> I can start another screen name right now and say I have a Pride frame on order and that they've been great to deal with. That won't negate that at least two others have had to go through enormous effort just to get a response out of Pride. Maybe they clean up their act now and fly straight...but if the doors are open and they have time to twitter and facebook, there is simply no excuse for ignoring clients whose money you have taken.
Click to expand...


Sums it up. Well said.
.


----------



## T K

SystemShock said:


> Sums it up. Well said.
> .


Concur.


----------



## orange_julius

DanAyo said:


> I know that TomStork is what he says he is because when I called Pride yesterday and spoke with David Atkins he mentioned that he was headed to the powder coater to have a frame repainted. Later during the conversation I mentioned this thread and asked him if he knew TomStork. He told me that it was his frame that was being powder coated. So I know he is a present customer.
> 
> You may or may not like his replies, but I can assure you he is what he says he is.


So you called Pride Cycles and you know that such and such is what he says it is because some other person said so? 

Just want to make sure that I understand things correctly.


----------



## DanAyo

*Forums are great places for people with nothing to add, but yet want to be heard*

Forums are great places for people with nothing to add, but yet want to be heard. ;<)

If the original poster was cheated then he deserves his say and he has done the cycling world a favor. If other users have knowledge of Pride then their comments are of value. Past, present, and possibly future customers of Pride would do well to enlighten us all. 

If anyone has hands-on knowledge or any real experience with Pride, then PLEASE speak up! Custom frame builders are a gift to the cycling world and we need all of the good ones we can get. At this time Pride titanium custom frames are extremely inexpensive, so if customer service is not on the level as the Big Boys, who's office is complete with personel and resources, then that's OK by me. I like doing business with the little guys. I can relate to them and I'd like to believe that I get a more personal touch. As a matter of fact, I'm one of the little guys myself. When I call Pride, I talk with the owner and we speak as friends. In a world of corporations, I really like that.

By-the-way; my frame shipped on-time and yes I have a UPS tracking number. It is scheduled to arrive this Friday. I'll post my opinions and put up images - very graphic and close up.

Hopefully Tom's frame gets to him soon and I hope (despite his statement not to reply to this thread) he comments on his findings.

*Here's a thought--*
For those that think they were handled improperly by Pride, why not give 
Pride a call, now that this thread has become such a monster? Hard feelings are tough to get over, but I would think David might be more willing to hear you out now that his company and personal character is in the lime light. And, if you call and you are not satisfied, then let us all know.

Disclaimer
I'm not trying to unjustly justify Pride, it's just that my experience thus far has not lived up to the overall opinions of this thread. Who knows; maybe tommorrow when I unpack my frame, I'll make MotLoc look like a puppy. But I really hope that is not the case...

Danny Ayo
Thibodaux, LA


----------



## 18usc371

DanAyo said:


> Forums are great places for people with nothing to add, but yet want to be heard. ;<)
> 
> If the original poster was cheated then he deserves his say and he has done the cycling world a favor. If other users have knowledge of Pride then their comments are of value. Past, present, and possibly future customers of Pride would do well to enlighten us all.
> 
> If anyone has hands-on knowledge or any real experience with Pride, then PLEASE speak up! Custom frame builders are a gift to the cycling world and we need all of the good ones we can get. At this time Pride titanium custom frames are extremely inexpensive, so if customer service is not on the level as the Big Boys, who's office is complete with personel and resources, then that's OK by me. I like doing business with the little guys. I can relate to them and I'd like to believe that I get a more personal touch. As a matter of fact, I'm one of the little guys myself. When I call Pride, I talk with the owner and we speak as friends. In a world of corporations, I really like that.
> 
> By-the-way; my frame shipped on-time and yes I have a UPS tracking number. It is scheduled to arrive this Friday. I'll post my opinions and put up images - very graphic and close up.
> 
> Hopefully Tom's frame gets to him soon and I hope (despite his statement not to reply to this thread) he comments on his findings.
> 
> *Here's a thought--*
> For those that think they were handled improperly by Pride, why not give
> Pride a call, now that this thread has become such a monster? Hard feelings are tough to get over, but I would think David might be more willing to hear you out now that his company and personal character is in the lime light. And, if you call and you are not satisfied, then let us all know.
> 
> Disclaimer
> I'm not trying to unjustly justify Pride, it's just that my experience thus far has not lived up to the overall opinions of this thread. Who knows; maybe tommorrow when I unpack my frame, I'll make MotLoc look like a puppy. But I really hope that is not the case...
> 
> Danny Ayo
> Thibodaux, LA


Dan - 

You make some fair points and I can respect your POV. 

Let me pose this to you by turning around your own words:

"*Here's a thought--*
For those that SAY they were handled improperly by Pride, DAVID - PRIDE, why not give 
THE CUSTOMERS a call, now that this thread has become such a monster? Hard feelings are tough to get over, but I would think A CUSTOMER might be more willing to hear PRIDE out now that YOUR company and personal character is in the lime light. And, if you call and THE CUSTOMERS are not satisfied, then let us all know."

What I'm saying, if a few Prided customers are p-off enough that they are calling the authorities and posting here, then why should they call Pride now? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Remember, this problem was the lack of communication on Pride's part. 

Also, sorry, I don't buy the small shop / budget price means having to put up with spotty communication. Actually, I believe that it of the utmost, utmost importance to maintain excellent communication no matter how small. JUST AS important as welds, measurements, ride quality. Want proof? See posts 1 thru 155 when you don't.


----------



## ColoRoadie

18usc371 said:


> Dan -
> 
> You make some fair points and I can respect your POV.
> 
> Let me pose this to you by turning around your own words:
> 
> "*Here's a thought--*
> For those that SAY they were handled improperly by Pride, DAVID - PRIDE, why not give
> THE CUSTOMERS a call, now that this thread has become such a monster? Hard feelings are tough to get over, but I would think A CUSTOMER might be more willing to hear PRIDE out now that YOUR company and personal character is in the lime light. And, if you call and THE CUSTOMERS are not satisfied, then let us all know."
> 
> What I'm saying, if a few Prided customers are p-off enough that they are calling the authorities and posting here, then why should they call Pride now? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Remember, this problem was the lack of communication on Pride's part.
> 
> Also, sorry, I don't buy the small shop / budget price means having to put up with spotty communication. Actually, I believe that it of the utmost, utmost importance to maintain excellent communication no matter how small. JUST AS important as welds, measurements, ride quality. Want proof? See posts 1 thru 155 when you don't.



Amen. 

If you haven't already, and I suspect you may have, you should start your own company...you already have the correct attitude to run one. Anything short of that commitment is just a train wreck waiting to happen. 

It's not hard to return a phone call, or an email. I bought one of my frames from China...and they always returned my communication within a few hours of my sending it. If an American company can't return communcation within....oh....lets say a WEEK...they deserve the 155 posts that someone is going to put up about them. In this case....it seems things went far longer than a week. Sympathy is hard to come by when it takes a police visit to answer a phone.


----------



## 18usc371

I'd love to be custom frame builder - lugged steel and Ti. Unfortunately, I lack several of the required skill to do so.

I learned a long time ago that it's not just how many satisfied customers you have, or how you handle the easy transactions, it is how you handle the difficulties/mistakes. Within every negative event there is an opportunity to completely turn the situation around. You can turn an angry/disappointed customer into a lifelong advocate if you handle it the right way. Step one . . . communication!


----------



## DanAyo

18usc371 said:


> Dan -
> 
> You make some fair points and I can respect your POV.
> 
> Let me pose this to you by turning around your own words:
> 
> "*Here's a thought--*
> For those that SAY they were handled improperly by Pride, DAVID - PRIDE, why not give
> THE CUSTOMERS a call, now that this thread has become such a monster? Hard feelings are tough to get over, but I would think A CUSTOMER might be more willing to hear PRIDE out now that YOUR company and personal character is in the lime light. And, if you call and THE CUSTOMERS are not satisfied, then let us all know."


*I think that is a great idea. *

My greatest hope from this thread is that the truth comes to light. I'd hate to see potential customers miss out on a great priced custom titanium frame, and I 'd equally hate to see potential customers put through a horrible experience while attempting to build the bike of their dreams.

Today is the day, my frame is scheduled to arrive. I'll let you know......

Dan Ayo


----------



## DanAyo

*My Pride frame arrived today and I have images*

The frame arrived late today as scheduled. It was well packed and there was nothing missing. I didn't get a chance to go over it with a fine tooth comb yet, but overall it looks fantastic to me.

Not sure how to post images directly to this forum, so go here to take a look.
http://www.jwtoups.com/Pride.htm

Once I get a closer look and start the build, I'll let you know more.

Danny Ayo
Thibodaux, LA


----------



## SystemShock

18usc371 said:


> I'd love to be custom frame builder - lugged steel and Ti. Unfortunately, I lack several of the required skill to do so.
> 
> I learned a long time ago that it's not just how many satisfied customers you have, or how you handle the easy transactions, it is how you handle the difficulties/mistakes. Within every negative event there is an opportunity to completely turn the situation around. You can turn an angry/disappointed customer into a lifelong advocate if you handle it the right way. Step one . . . communication!


Yeah, agreed. A little bit of good, timely communication goes a long, long way.

And, by the same token, lack of same can really hurt a business, particularly one that relies a lot on its reputation and/or faces a great deal of competition.

It's tough out there, folks. Poor customer service will definitely come back to bite you in the hindquarters sooner or later... probably sooner. 
.


----------



## sonic_W

DanAyo said:


> The frame arrived late today as scheduled. It was well packed and there was nothing missing. I didn't get a chance to go over it with a fine tooth comb yet, but overall it looks fantastic to me.
> 
> Not sure how to post images directly to this forum, so go here to take a look.
> http://www.jwtoups.com/Pride.htm
> 
> Once I get a closer look and start the build, I'll let you know more.
> 
> Danny Ayo
> Thibodaux, LA


Seeing that some of the complaints in this thread have been about his build quality, I'll refrain from judgment until you assemble the bike and report that the alignment is fine.


----------



## 18usc371

DanAyo said:


> The frame arrived late today as scheduled. It was well packed and there was nothing missing. I didn't get a chance to go over it with a fine tooth comb yet, but overall it looks fantastic to me.
> 
> Not sure how to post images directly to this forum, so go here to take a look.
> http://www.jwtoups.com/Pride.htm
> 
> Once I get a closer look and start the build, I'll let you know more.
> 
> Danny Ayo
> Thibodaux, LA



Good news! Please do.


----------



## 18usc371

Pride Customers

Care to share time from order to door?

Thanks!


----------



## DanAyo

*Time Frame for Pride custom order*

My custom frame was ready in 3 weeks, but I decided to have Pride press the bearing and install a Chris King headset. They didn't have the one I wanted in stock so the had to order. All in all it took 4 1/2 weeks to recieve it in Louisiana. Pride guaranteed me 4 week completion and they lived up to it.

The frame came in well packed and undamaged.

I am presently in the stage of building up the frame. Looks like I got a great bargain on a super nice custom TI. I am very pleased so far.

Will post again after the build is complete.

Danny Ayo


----------



## krisdrum

DanAyo said:


> The frame arrived late today as scheduled. It was well packed and there was nothing missing. I didn't get a chance to go over it with a fine tooth comb yet, but overall it looks fantastic to me.
> 
> Not sure how to post images directly to this forum, so go here to take a look.
> http://www.jwtoups.com/Pride.htm
> 
> Once I get a closer look and start the build, I'll let you know more.
> 
> Danny Ayo
> Thibodaux, LA


The discoloration in the welds on the rear triangle are often signs of poorly done welds on Ti. I'd be suspect.


----------



## rx-79g

krisdrum said:


> The discoloration in the welds on the rear triangle are often signs of poorly done welds on Ti. I'd be suspect.


All welds look like that - the heat causes surface oxidation. These just haven't been finished - a Scotch Brite pad will make them go away.

I don't see any welds that don't look like they fall in the normal range of oxidation, but that can only be judged by eye - digital photos of metalic things are often decieving.

Table 2 on this page gives a good guide to acceptable/unacceptable weld coloration:
http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=1245


----------



## stickney

DanAyo,

With the oddity that is this thread, I think you may need to go out and take a photo of you, your bike, and the sign for Thibideaux, LA in the background just to overcome your 8 posts and Oct2010 join date. 

Good luck with the build.


----------



## krisdrum

rx-79g said:


> All welds look like that - the heat causes surface oxidation. These just haven't been finished - a Scotch Brite pad will make them go away.
> 
> I don't see any welds that don't look like they fall in the normal range of oxidation, but that can only be judged by eye - digital photos of metalic things are often decieving.
> 
> Table 2 on this page gives a good guide to acceptable/unacceptable weld coloration:
> http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=1245


Ok, fine, I am no weld expert. At the very least, I wouldn't expect to see unfinished welds showing up at my door regardless of how much you paid for the frame. As some of the other stories in this thread illustrate, their attention to detail doesn't seem to be particularly confidence inspiring. If they are sending out frames with unfinished welds, I would wonder what other details they may have overlooked on that frame.


----------



## Jetmugg

The welds look solid, just not cleaned up at all locations. 

Is the upper headset cup fully seated? It looks like there's a gap in the close-up of the upper headset cup.

SteveM.


----------



## rx-79g

krisdrum said:


> Ok, fine, I am no weld expert. At the very least, I wouldn't expect to see unfinished welds showing up at my door regardless of how much you paid for the frame. As some of the other stories in this thread illustrate, their attention to detail doesn't seem to be particularly confidence inspiring. If they are sending out frames with unfinished welds, I would wonder what other details they may have overlooked on that frame.


Really? You sounded so confidently expert in your earlier post.

I think the level of finish goes along with the price. Personally, I'd rather have a so-so brush than bead blast, the usual cheap ti finish.

And just so we're clear on terminology - those aren't "unfinished welds". Ti welds don't require the finish sanding and grinding of other types of welds. The heat affected zone has a couple microns of oxidation on it, showing that the frame is mostly unfinished.

I don't have anything at stake here, aside from a general wish for more US made Ti frame choices. So far, it seems like Pride has sloppy customer service (not unusual among small frame builders) and doesn't sweat the finish details or decals. On the other hand, the welds look better than the Roark welds recently posted and they weld all the fittings, including bottle mounts. The price for custom geometry is competitive with Asia.

So I'll be interested to see how their business plays out. I think some things they're doing well, and some things obviously need to improve. But let's criticise them with facts, rather than inexpert opinions.


----------



## ColoRoadie

The color of those welds are blue/brown at best and I would swear I see purple at the bottom, which is quite a bit down the color chart for Titanium. Below is a quotes from RX's link above: 



> Cleaning between passes is not necessary if the weld bead remains bright and silvery. Straw or light blue weld discoloration can be removed by wire brushing with a clean stainless steel wire brush. *Contaminated weld beads, as evidenced by a dark blue, grey or white powdery colour, must be completely removed by grinding. The joint must then be carefully prepared and cleaned before welding again.*
> 
> Problems with titanium welds are generally a result of contamination due to inadequate shielding. The colour of welds can be used as an indicator of shielding effectiveness and, indirectly, weld quality.


In my business we deal with metal fab quite a bit, most of it structural, and the titanium we've had to deal with was always spec'd by the engineer as bright and silvery welds or the work was to be rejected. Below is some more info from HERE which states the same and gives a range for the colors. 




> Titanium begins to discolor at around 500 degrees F. The hotter it gets without being protected by inert gas like argon, the more it oxidizes and changes colors beginning at straw and ending at white chalky oxide.
> 
> The first titanium weld color is straw, followed by brown, then brownish blue, purple blue, green and blue, dull salmon pink, gray and white oxide.
> 
> Some Codes actually allow blue discoloration, but best practice is to prevent titanium welds from discoloring beyond the straw color.
> 
> *But when protected by argon until it cools below 500 deg F, titanium will be bright and silver even when heated past its melting point which is approximately 3135 F depending on the alloy grade.*


Even if the welds shown are believed to be straw in color and one could not see the blue at all, the cleaning of those welds should have been done by the fabricator, not the client. As it is, the blue/blrown shows that the weld was not properly protected with argon and that it reached a temperature unprotected that would fail it as a structural weld. Does that matter in a bicycle application? I will leave that to experts in the field, but the welds are certainly nothing to write home about.


----------



## rx-79g

stickney said:


> DanAyo,
> 
> With the oddity that is this thread, I think you may need to go out and take a photo of you, your bike, and the sign for Thibideaux, LA in the background just to overcome your 8 posts and Oct2010 join date.


How will we know the photo isn't Photoshopped? I think DanAyo should send everyone on this thread a sample of his mother's gumbo as proof that he is in Louisiana!


----------



## rx-79g

ColoRoadie said:


> The color of those welds are blue/brown at best which is quite a bit down the color chart for Titanium. Below are a few quotes from RX's link above:
> 
> In my business we deal with metal fab quite a bit, most of it structural, and the titanium we've had to deal with was always spec'd by the engineer as bright and silvery welds or the work was to be rejected. Some more info from HERE which states pretty much the same thing.
> 
> Even if the welds shown are believed to be straw in color and one could not see the blue at all, the cleaning of those welds should have been done by the fabricator, not the client. As it is, the blue/blrown shows that the weld was not properly protected with argon and that it reached a temperature unprotected that would fail it as a structural weld. Does that matter in a bicycle application? I will leave that to experts in that field.


You'll also note in my post this line: "I don't see any welds that don't look like they fall in the normal range of oxidation, but that can only be judged by eye - *digital photos of metalic things are often decieving*."

Straw to light blue are acceptable, dark blue and gray are not. Since these are photos of metal, I'm giving the benefit of the doubt about just how much of the coloration is from the angle, refraction and shadow. DanAyo has the frame, and if he wants to compare what he sees with the link and post his impressions, he's the only one who is in that position. If they are too dark, then he should do something about it.


----------



## ColoRoadie

rx-79g said:


> Straw to light blue are acceptable, dark blue and gray are not


I certainly don't want to disagree with you. However, any blue whatsoever is considered a failed joint in both the article you quoted earlier and the one I quoted afterwards. 

Blueing is considered a failed joint in any structural metal application. Perhaps bicycle joints are not considered structural enough for it to matter and is a field where blue can be accepted....but then why bother with titanium if the joints need not be structural.


----------



## rx-79g

ColoRoadie said:


> I certainly don't want to disagree with you. However, any blue whatsoever is considered a failed joint in both the article you quoted earlier and the one I quoted afterwards.
> 
> Blueing is considered a failed joint in any structural metal application. Perhaps bicycle joints are not considered structural enough for it to matter and is a field where blue can be accepted....but then why bother with titanium if the joints need not be structural.


I was reading this:
"Light Straw, Dark Straw,* Light Blue* Surface oxide. Remove by wire brushing with new stainless steel wire brush."

Ideally the welds would be silver. This frame is unusual in that normally bicycles come post-abrasive and we can no longer see what sort of coloration the HAZ produced - so I couldn't tell you how many Ti frames looked like this at one time. I would certainly have a bigger warm fuzzy about all silver welds, but if the coloration falls in the "surface oxide" range, there's no reason to think the welds are structurally unsound. If the color is full blue, then I agree that it's a problem.

I would definitely give those weld the once over if I was DanAyo. My original point was just to not be hasty declaring something a "bad weld" based on digital photo colors alone.


----------



## ColoRoadie

The blue looks pretty dark and when accompanied with the brown next to it it seems suspect to me. If it's been cleaned up already by the manufacturer and this is the final product it is certainly suspect. If it hasn't been cleaned up, and providing that blueing is ok on bicycles, then it should have been cleaned by Pride in their QC inspection. Blueing is easy to prevent by turning up the Argon flow and letting it dwell 15 seconds or so after welding until the temp drops.

I would think this is a fairly high stress area of the frame, so I would at least keep an eye on it.


----------



## krisdrum

rx-79g said:


> Really? You sounded so confidently expert in your earlier post.
> 
> I think the level of finish goes along with the price. Personally, I'd rather have a so-so brush than bead blast, the usual cheap ti finish.
> 
> And just so we're clear on terminology - those aren't "unfinished welds". Ti welds don't require the finish sanding and grinding of other types of welds. The heat affected zone has a couple microns of oxidation on it, showing that the frame is mostly unfinished.
> 
> I don't have anything at stake here, aside from a general wish for more US made Ti frame choices. So far, it seems like Pride has sloppy customer service (not unusual among small frame builders) and doesn't sweat the finish details or decals. On the other hand, the welds look better than the Roark welds recently posted and they weld all the fittings, including bottle mounts. The price for custom geometry is competitive with Asia.
> 
> So I'll be interested to see how their business plays out. I think some things they're doing well, and some things obviously need to improve. But let's criticise them with facts, rather than inexpert opinions.


I'll ignore the snark, but re-read my post if my expertise is in question.

I'm sorry, but a finished frame showing up to the customers door shouldn't look unfinished, I don't care how much you paid for it. The rear triangle on that frame looks sloppy and unfinished. If a builder isn't sweating the details to make the frame look nice, I'd question if they were taking the time and effort to double check stuff like alignment, spacing, etc.

You're post(s) read rather defensive for someone who has no skin in the game, other than wanting to see more US Ti choices. Yes, their prices are competitve with Asia made Ti in a custom geo. But frankly, from what I've seen, the asian frames have better fit and finish. And at least one brand is at least designed by an American, even if the frames are produced overseas.

I actually ride an asian made custom Ti (I won't drag them into it any further) and my frame looks alot better to my untrained eye compared to the recently posted pictures. And yes, my frame is brushed, not blasted.

Can you expand on the "things they are doing well"? So far I am not seeing alot to move the needle.


----------



## rx-79g

krisdrum said:


> I'll ignore the snark, but re-read my post if my expertise is in question.
> 
> I'm sorry, but a finished frame showing up to the customers door shouldn't look unfinished, I don't care how much you paid for it. The rear triangle on that frame looks sloppy and unfinished. If a builder isn't sweating the details to make the frame look nice, I'd question if they were taking the time and effort to double check stuff like alignment, spacing, etc.
> 
> You're post(s) read rather defensive for someone who has no skin in the game, other than wanting to see more US Ti choices. Yes, their prices are competitve with Asia made Ti in a custom geo. But frankly, from what I've seen, the asian frames have better fit and finish. And at least one brand is at least designed by an American, even if the frames are produced overseas.
> 
> I actually ride an asian made custom Ti (I won't drag them into it any further) and my frame looks alot better to my untrained eye compared to the recently posted pictures. And yes, my frame is brushed, not blasted.
> 
> Can you expand on the "things they are doing well"? So far I am not seeing alot to move the needle.


I'm sorry, I am not trying to pick sides on this. As I said, I like that a US maker is offering custom geometry and decent looking welds for those prices.

Would I buy a Pride? Not today. I see promise in this company, but I don't think a bike should come looking like that either. Whenever you spend this little on a Ti bicycle you're making some sort of compromise. My compromise is that I buy used. You buy Chinese and Pride customers put up with sloppiness. I think my compromise is best.:thumbsup: 

This has been such a thoroughly and crudely negative thread that I think a little perspective is called for. I will not make excuses for Pride, I will not recommend Pride (at this point), but I don't want to see unjust negatives thrown in there as well.

I see Pride as data point in an increasingly screwy titanium frame market. I think they are doing lots of things wrong, but I think Serotta charging $5000 for a Ti frame is also a mistake. If Pride and other small shops manage to re-establish US titanium as a competitive option, the market in general will be better for it.

Sorry about the snarkiness.


----------



## krisdrum

rx-79g said:


> I'm sorry, I am not trying to pick sides on this. As I said, I like that a US maker is offering custom geometry and decent looking welds for those prices.
> 
> Would I buy a Pride? Not today. I see promise in this company, but I don't think a bike should come looking like that either. Whenever you spend this little on a Ti bicycle you're making some sort of compromise. My compromise is that I buy used. You buy Chinese and Pride customers put up with sloppiness. I think my compromise is best.:thumbsup:
> 
> This has been such a thoroughly and crudely negative thread that I think a little perspective is called for. I will not make excuses for Pride, I will not recommend Pride (at this point), but I don't want to see unjust negatives thrown in there as well.
> 
> I see Pride as data point in an increasingly screwy titanium frame market. I think they are doing lots of things wrong, but I think Serotta charging $5000 for a Ti frame is also a mistake. If Pride and other small shops manage to re-establish US titanium as a competitive option, the market in general will be better for it.
> 
> Sorry about the snarkiness.


Thank you. I know this thread has gotten out of control in some sections, but I am not trying to pile on the negativity. I'm just as curious as anyone else as to how things will turn out for Pride. The pricepoint is certainly appealing and competitive. And I'd love to see them be successful at that pricepoint. But as you said, right now, they are falling short in alot of ways. And sadly it is a pattern I have seen before with small builders trying to make it in a competitive market in another one of my hobbies (drums and percussion). I just didn't want our man Dan to not give a good hard close look at those rear welds and have at least a second opinion on their integrity.

As for my chinese Ti, I'm fortunate, I won it in my club's 100th anniversary raffle. If it weren't for that, I'd probably still be on a used Serotta Classique 853 that was slightly small for me. So even at this pricepoint, Ti is a luxury item for me.


----------



## DanAyo

*A personal rant from a nut, a lier, or a regular guy - you be the judge and jury*

I decided early this morning to try to brighten some of the images in the page I posted.
http://www.jwtoups.com/Pride.htm

I thought it would show the actual beads of the weld better. I have since reposted the original images with an explaination on the web page. The acutal color of the back drop sheet is egg shell white, maybe even a light beige..

*Now the rant*
At this point I am growing weary of trying to share my experience with Pride. 
Believe what you want. 
-Maybe I'm a total nut that knows nothing and for some reason choses to defend Pride even though they are low down no good theives.
-Maybe I'm clueless and bought a peice of absolute junk, but I think it is great. I'm delusional.
-Maybe I'm a habitual lier and I'm playing out some sort of fantasy trying to trick the thread.
-Maybe...Maybe.. Maybe... (I'd be surpirsed if some mental giant didn't chime in to define me)
-But maybe I'm a regular guy that loves to cycle and dreamed of a custom frame built of the best material in the world for bikes. Maybe I work hard for my money and I'm particuar. Maybe I like American built products and materials. Maybe I ordered a frame from a man that did a great job for me and did what he said he would do.

You be the judge. 

I WILL post my findings, as I've stated before, after the build is complete.

I really believe that I'll be having a blast riding by new bike while this thread continues into infamy. And I imagine that most people that see my bike out on the road (that haven't read this "knowlege filled" thread) will drule with envy. It's a sweet looking frame, and the components ain't bad either.

So keep on b*tching; while I'm out rolling through the country side keeping fit, smelling new smells, seeing new sights, meeting nice people along the way... 
I know a lot of people that can't stand cylist because too many of them are filled to the brim with Bull Sh*t. I ride a bike and I can't stand them either. If you want to act like Lance Armstrong then why don't you go and compete in the Tour de France? Oh yea, your not really that cute in your tighties and your really not that fast.

Do what makes you feel good and I'll do the same.

By-the-way, I never claimed to be an expert cylist. I'm a self-proclained B-. But it sure is fun to ride.

Danny Ayo


----------



## Waves77

DanAyo said:


> I decided early this morning to try to brighten some of the images in the page I posted.
> http://www.jwtoups.com/Pride.htm
> 
> I thought it would show the actual beads of the weld better. I have since reposted the original images with an explaination on the web page. The acutal color of the back drop sheet is egg shell white, maybe even a light beige..
> 
> *Now the rant*
> At this point I am growing weary of trying to share my experience with Pride.
> Believe what you want.
> -Maybe I'm a total nut that knows nothing and for some reason choses to defend Pride even though they are low down no good theives.
> -Maybe I'm clueless and bought a peice of absolute junk, but I think it is great. I'm delusional.
> -Maybe I'm a habitual lier and I'm playing out some sort of fantasy trying to trick the thread.
> -Maybe...Maybe.. Maybe... (I'd be surpirsed if some mental giant didn't chime in to define me)
> -But maybe I'm a regular guy that loves to cycle and dreamed of a custom frame built of the best material in the world for bikes. Maybe I work hard for my money and I'm particuar. Maybe I like American built products and materials. Maybe I ordered a frame from a man that did a great job for me and did what he said he would do.
> 
> You be the judge.
> 
> I WILL post my findings, as I've stated before, after the build is complete.
> 
> I really believe that I'll be having a blast riding by new bike while this thread continues into infamy. And I imagine that most people that see my bike out on the road (that haven't read this "knowlege filled" thread) will drule with envy. It's a sweet looking frame, and the components ain't bad either.
> 
> So keep on b*tching; while I'm out rolling through the country side keeping fit, smelling new smells, seeing new sights, meeting nice people along the way...
> I know a lot of people that can't stand cylist because too many of them are filled to the brim with Bull Sh*t. I ride a bike and I can't stand them either. If you want to act like Lance Armstrong then why don't you go and compete in the Tour de France? Oh yea, your not really that cute in your tighties and your really not that fast.
> 
> Do what makes you feel good and I'll do the same.
> 
> By-the-way, I never claimed to be an expert cylist. I'm a self-proclained B-. But it sure is fun to ride.
> 
> Danny Ayo


Quoted just in case. Interesting you'd list your company/employer, swear, misspell and look like a fool all in one post. :thumbsup:


----------



## draganM

well personally I wouldn't ride on that but the good news is it's unlikely all 4 weld-points holding the rear wheel on will fail at the same time.  Neither of those look very good, the steat stay joint looked like it's washed out and chain-stay joint is pieced together from 3 pieces creating a stress riser. In order to leave the end of the tube round you would really need to use hooded drop-outs *or *form the end of the tube down gradually to a taper so the transition from tube to drop out is not so severe. Just my humble opinion


----------



## rx-79g

draganM said:


> well personally I wouldn't ride on that but the good news is it's unlikely all 4 weld-points holding the rear wheel on will fail at the same time.  Neither of those look very good, the steat stay joint looked like it's washed out and* chain-stay joint is pieced together from 3 pieces creating a stress riser. In order to leave the end of the tube round you would really need to use hooded drop-outs or form the end of the tube down gradually to a taper so the transition from tube to drop out is not so severe. Just my humble opinion*


You should let the guys from Merlin that invented this method 20 years ago know about your opinions. I'll be sure to post when my Extralight fails from the "stress risers". 

Hooded dropouts are a labor saving device - they aren't 'better', just easier to weld. That's what they say at the UCI frame building school, anyway.


----------



## ColoRoadie

DanAyo said:


> I decided early this morning to try to brighten some of the images in the page I posted.
> http://www.jwtoups.com/Pride.htm
> 
> I thought it would show the actual beads of the weld better. I have since reposted the original images with an explaination on the web page. The acutal color of the back drop sheet is egg shell white, maybe even a light beige..
> 
> *Now the rant*
> At this point I am growing weary of trying to share my experience with Pride.
> Believe what you want.
> -Maybe I'm a total nut that knows nothing and for some reason choses to defend Pride even though they are low down no good theives.
> -Maybe I'm clueless and bought a peice of absolute junk, but I think it is great. I'm delusional.
> -Maybe I'm a habitual lier and I'm playing out some sort of fantasy trying to trick the thread.
> -Maybe...Maybe.. Maybe... (I'd be surpirsed if some mental giant didn't chime in to define me)
> -But maybe I'm a regular guy that loves to cycle and dreamed of a custom frame built of the best material in the world for bikes. Maybe I work hard for my money and I'm particuar. Maybe I like American built products and materials. Maybe I ordered a frame from a man that did a great job for me and did what he said he would do.
> 
> You be the judge.
> 
> I WILL post my findings, as I've stated before, after the build is complete.
> 
> I really believe that I'll be having a blast riding by new bike while this thread continues into infamy. And I imagine that most people that see my bike out on the road (that haven't read this "knowlege filled" thread) will drule with envy. It's a sweet looking frame, and the components ain't bad either.
> 
> So keep on b*tching; while I'm out rolling through the country side keeping fit, smelling new smells, seeing new sights, meeting nice people along the way...
> I know a lot of people that can't stand cylist because too many of them are filled to the brim with Bull Sh*t. I ride a bike and I can't stand them either. If you want to act like Lance Armstrong then why don't you go and compete in the Tour de France? Oh yea, your not really that cute in your tighties and your really not that fast.
> 
> Do what makes you feel good and I'll do the same.
> 
> By-the-way, I never claimed to be an expert cylist. I'm a self-proclained B-. But it sure is fun to ride.
> 
> Danny Ayo



Easy there big fella. No need to get emotional. A few people with actual expertise have offered some opinions on some welds you might want to keep an eye on. Posting pictures on the internet will often result in people seeing them, and if there is a flaw...commenting on them. You can choose to ignore the opinions as you see fit. Nobody will be following you around to remind you about them. There are at least two links supplied that very simply spell out how to inspect a titanium weld and determine the quality of that weld. You can use those or google for a dozen others that will tell you the same thing. Titanium color changes easily guage the quality of the weld and you can make up your own mind. If you are happy with what you see, then build her up and ride happily. 

When you hear the creaking in the future, the good news is you already know where to look for the cracks. No chasing frustrating creaking around for months on end while pulling your hair out. If that isn't a silver lining, I don't know what is.


----------



## sonic_W

For the sake of comparison, here are some of Carl Strong's titanium welds. Don't see any coloration, except for a few brown? marks on the edges. Perhaps he uses a different method? Maybe he cleans them immediately afterward? 

Regardless, you're comparing *production quality* to *master frame builder* quality. What's to say Litespeed's frames aren't like this before they're finished? Especially as Pride's workers are said to be affiliated with Litespeed's. 

You get what you pay for, and Pride offers a premium product at a very non-premium price. Maybe some corners are expected to be cut?

It seems like rx-79g is one of the few reasonable people here. Will this forum ever cut its obsession for shills? A lot of you feel this place is a lot bigger of a deal than it really is. Go ride instead.


----------



## raymonda

sonic_W said:


> Especially as Pride's workers are said to be affiliated with Litespeed's. QUOTE]
> 
> First I've heard of this? On what level is this relationship. From the pictures of Prides finished product I see absolutely no similarities with design or quality to anything Litespeed produces. Those welds are not even in the same galaxy.


----------



## ColoRoadie

sonic_W said:


> For the sake of comparison, here are some of Carl Strong's titanium welds. Don't see any coloration, except for a few brown? marks on the edges. Perhaps he uses a different method? Maybe he cleans them immediately afterward?
> 
> Regardless, you're comparing *production quality* to *master frame builder* quality. What's to say Litespeed's frames aren't like this before they're finished? Especially as Pride's workers are said to be affiliated with Litespeed's.
> 
> You get what you pay for, and Pride offers a premium product at a very non-premium price. Maybe some corners are expected to be cut?
> 
> It seems like rx-79g is one of the few reasonable people here. Will this forum ever cut its obsession for shills? A lot of you feel this place is a lot bigger of a deal than it really is. Go ride instead.


You are absolutely right in saying your photos are of a different welding technique. Your photos show good welding technique, the previous show a lessor technique. Welding is all about the technique, and that technique either produces a strong weld that will last or a poor one that will not. You can't just melt the rod onto the two adjoining pieces and expect that the weld you produce will be as strong as the welds in your photos. A good weld should look like a stack of dimes placed atop of each other (like those of your Strong), not caulk smeared into place like those previous. Also, with titanium the weld should be relatively colorless and clean looking. That look is not produced by cleaning it up like knocking the clag off of stick welded steel....the weld produced is the color it is based on how the weld is protected from air during the welding and cooling process.....and THAT determines how strong the weld is. The color is an indicator of the quality of the weld because the amount of contamination changes the color. No contamination at all, produces clean silver welds, slight contamination produces straw color and with more contamination you get different colors (violet, blue, etc).

The color you see in your photos is a straw color and indicates a structural weld that would pass practically any spec short of aerospace. As the colors reach further from straw color and mix with blueing the weld is less and less sound which means it will fail sooner and for less reason than a better weld. It has to do with oxidation caused by not enough inert gas (argon) being used, the argon not being pure enough or the argon flow being stopped prior to the part cooling below 500 degrees F. Rest assured, the welds you showed are significantly stronger than the previous photos being discussed. Its not my opinion, it's just a well documented, easily proven fact. There are hundreds of pages on the internet about proper titanium welds, discoloration and the reasons why it's so easy to tell the difference between a good weld and a not so good one. 

In any event, this is a frame discussion forum. We are discussing frames...so your desire that people go ride instead seems a bit odd. What would be the purpose of a forum like this if a photo of imperfect welds was heralded as works of art instead of discussed for what they are? Wouldn't it do a disservice to the builders out there who are pumping argon down their tubes as well as bathing the welding surface in it while using proper heat and technique so that their welds really are superior strength works of art? Wouldn't those roaming through a thread on titanium bikes be interested in what a proper weld should look like? I'll bet there are some who didn't know that color on titanium means so much and some that didn't know that a smeared on weld isn't as strong as a proper stack of dimes. I am certainly not putting down anyone's investment....but if one posts a photo on the internet, he can't be shocked or outraged when that photo is discussed. In fairness, the only welds on the Pride that looked contaminated are those of the rear drop outs. The others, while not nearly comparable to the Strong's you posted, were at least much better protected from contamination in all but a few small areas. I would still ride it...but I would give a glance to those rear welds whenever I lubed the chain.


----------



## DanAyo

*Sorry, Sorry*

My experience with Pride has been good. I believe David Atkins went out of his way to provide an excellent product for a great price. I imagine if I wanted to pay a lot more I could have gotten a different product. The closeup of the beaded welds on the BB of one post in this thread is art. But I'm not sure I'd want to pay the price. I could see framing a picture of welds like that. I posted the closeup images of the welds because I think they look great. It is my believe that my frame will live on long after I'm gone. The apparent metal discoloration is a result of digital imagery, color shift, and my lack of photographic skills. In person the frame shows no discoloration with the exception of the rear dropouts, which is extremely slight and hard to detect. I understand that some images made the frame look over heated and poorly welded. When I read the critiques concerning that it upset me. And thus the ranting post...

I find myself quilty of the very same thing that has angered me throughout this thread; those making assumptions based on emotion and not knowing the real facts. To me it seems that many of the negative post are by people who have no experience with Pride. They don't know for sure any specific details concerning this thread. Only what they've read. And yet I find myself making comments that assume certain aggravating posters consider themselves "elite cyclist". For all I know there are regular guys like me that ride in t-shirts rather than jerseys. And if you are an elite cylist, then good for you. I wished I could average 20mph! I apologize.

Because of the ill emotions that this thread causes me, I plan to post only once more to report my findings after the bike is complete.

Should have left out any crude words. Sorry for that. My wife read the post before I sent it. I should have listened to her. :<)

*I do hope those looking for a Titanium frame find a builder that suites them perfectly.*
Danny Ayo


----------



## Sasquatch

DanAyo obviously works or has a stake in the Pride bike business.


----------



## brujenn

Anyone wanting to learn about mob mentality in on-line forums should read this thread.


----------



## evs

*Do some of those pics look photoshopped?*

Just a casual observer here, reading and learning, but the pics of his Pride bike, look at the bb pics. They are so smooth as to be photo shopped. Just wondering, or does it look normal.


----------



## buck-50

Sasquatch said:


> DanAyo obviously works or has a stake in the Pride bike business.


No, he obviously just bought a custom frame for the first time, poured a lot of time into finding a builder he liked and could afford, who would build him the frame he wants, and is now getting understandably defensive as a bunch of google-geniuses tell him his brand new custom frame, the one he's been dreaming about for some time now, is a total POS.

Look y'all, back the @#$% off. 

If you aren't actually a titanium welder and you haven't seen the frame in person, shut up. 

This thread started with one guy who was pissed that his frame was f'd up. Fair enough. Another guy jumped in to say , "hey, me too!" looks bad for the builder, but still fair. So DanAyo makes the mistake of saying "Hey, mine came out fine!" and y'all pile on him like he's just told you your mother is a *****. 

Give the guy a break- he just got the frame of his dreams. Not your dreams, his dreams. Let him enjoy it. If it breaks, considering the number of JRA carbon frame break threads I've seen lately, he'll be in fine company. 

DanAyo, enjoy the frame and ignore the nonsense.


----------



## krisdrum

DanAyo said:


> I decided early this morning to try to brighten some of the images in the page I posted.
> http://www.jwtoups.com/Pride.htm
> 
> I thought it would show the actual beads of the weld better. I have since reposted the original images with an explaination on the web page. The acutal color of the back drop sheet is egg shell white, maybe even a light beige..
> 
> *Now the rant*
> At this point I am growing weary of trying to share my experience with Pride.
> Believe what you want.
> -Maybe I'm a total nut that knows nothing and for some reason choses to defend Pride even though they are low down no good theives.
> -Maybe I'm clueless and bought a peice of absolute junk, but I think it is great. I'm delusional.
> -Maybe I'm a habitual lier and I'm playing out some sort of fantasy trying to trick the thread.
> -Maybe...Maybe.. Maybe... (I'd be surpirsed if some mental giant didn't chime in to define me)
> -But maybe I'm a regular guy that loves to cycle and dreamed of a custom frame built of the best material in the world for bikes. Maybe I work hard for my money and I'm particuar. Maybe I like American built products and materials. Maybe I ordered a frame from a man that did a great job for me and did what he said he would do.
> 
> You be the judge.
> 
> I WILL post my findings, as I've stated before, after the build is complete.
> 
> I really believe that I'll be having a blast riding by new bike while this thread continues into infamy. And I imagine that most people that see my bike out on the road (that haven't read this "knowlege filled" thread) will drule with envy. It's a sweet looking frame, and the components ain't bad either.
> 
> So keep on b*tching; while I'm out rolling through the country side keeping fit, smelling new smells, seeing new sights, meeting nice people along the way...
> I know a lot of people that can't stand cylist because too many of them are filled to the brim with Bull Sh*t. I ride a bike and I can't stand them either. If you want to act like Lance Armstrong then why don't you go and compete in the Tour de France? Oh yea, your not really that cute in your tighties and your really not that fast.
> 
> Do what makes you feel good and I'll do the same.
> 
> By-the-way, I never claimed to be an expert cylist. I'm a self-proclained B-. But it sure is fun to ride.
> 
> Danny Ayo


As others have backed me up on, those rear welds are discolored, potentially to the point of not being sound welds. If it were my bike, I'd be sure to get a second or third opinion on those welds before even bothering to build the bike up. You spent alot of money to maybe be shipped a piece of junk. We could be talking about something far beyond a cosmetic blemish or aesthetics. Hopefully the good news is you should have warning signs if the welds are indeed bad before you get a catastrophic failure if you move forward with building the bike. That will hopefully mean you are only out the price of the frame, and not, the price of the frame, some components and medical bills after the rear dropouts give way and you hit the deck as the rear wheel falls off the bike.

So I understand you enjoy cycling and being out in the open air, exploring, but the issue brought up about the rear weld integrity could be a pretty serious matter if not looked into or after once the bike is built. I'd keep a very close eye and ear on those welds.

So take that advice as you will, but none of us saying the welds look suspect are saying it to be mean or aggressive or because we hate Pride. We are saying it because maybe you aren't familiar with weld contamination and maybe you hurting yourself would really suck, especially if it is due to shoddy workmanship.

I just read some of your later responses, and I am glad to hear the photos of the rear welds do not accurately represent what they look like in person. That line of discussion was started out of concern for your health and well-being.


----------



## AtlantaR6

I'm no welder, but DAMN those things are gorgeous.



sonic_W said:


>


----------



## raymonda

DanAyo,

I'm not rying to give you a hard time. I think a lot of what you have there looks mighty good. However, one more thing to look at is that it doesn't appear that your top bearing cup was installed properly. As you can see, there is some light coming through from the head tube and the cup, which means the cup isn't seated right. This is an easy fix with the right tools and can be done in less than a minute. It is something you should look at before you complete the build in order to get your headset to work without binding.

Post some pictures of the final build.


----------



## GirchyGirchy

Moots weld, just for fun. OM NOM NOM NOM


----------



## GirchyGirchy

ColoRoadie said:


> No contamination at all, produces clean silver welds, slight contamination produces straw color and with more contamination you get different colors (violet, blue, etc


I wish I'd taken a picture of it - there was a builder at NAHBS a couple of years ago who had a Ti bike on display with the WORST welds I've ever seen. Each and every one was bright blue and purple. I thought it was bare steel at first.


----------



## laffeaux

I don't have anything useful to add, but that's not stopped a lot of others from posting in this thread. 

DanAyo, I hope that you really enjoy your new bike. Your experience with Pride sounds much better than your experience with RoadBikeReview. Many other lower-priced titanium bikes will look very similar to yours, but unfortunately they're not being scrutinized the same (for whatever reason). Ride your bike and enjoy it.

But speaking of pretty welds - these are aluminum instead of Ti - but they sure look nice and consistent. There are a lot of sloppy welders out there, but the welds that American Cycles used to do were not sloppy at all 

<img src="https://www.eandsweb.com/bikes/pics/american/137_3715.JPG" height="768" width="1024">


----------



## Bacana

ColoRoadie said:


> I'll bet there are some who didn't know that color on titanium means so much and some that didn't know that a smeared on weld isn't as strong as a proper stack of dimes. I am certainly not putting down anyone's investment....but if one posts a photo on the internet, he can't be shocked or outraged when that photo is discussed.


Haha, that's me. I've found this thread enlightening and appreciate the input of knowledge.

The owner of Pride needs to:

Create an account on this forum
Tell his (her?) side of the story *politely*
Apologize if he's erred
Promise to make it right, even if doing so leaves him out of pocket
Assure the public (i.e., prospective customers) that he will make corrections to reduce the likelihood of this happening again
It's all just part of managing one's online reputation. It's hard to put yourself out there, especially in a thread like this, but the consequences of not doing so, in my respectful opinion, can be great. (This thread already shows up (for me) on the first page of Google results when I search for "Pride Cycles".)

For what it's worth, I ride stock titanium (Merlin) and have considered custom titanium, though I haven't been convinced that I need any special geometry. I know that there are a lot of bigger companies that do custom, but it seems that a lot of the smaller shops (but certainly not all of them) are often built on the reputations of the frame builders themselves--Spectrum Cycles, Richard Sachs, Kishbike, etc.

And for budget custom titanium, the standard recommendation seems to be Habanero ($1,300 http://www.habcycles.com/custom.html).


----------



## rx-79g

Bacana said:


> Haha, that's me. I've found this thread enlightening and appreciate the input of knowledge.
> 
> The owner of Pride needs to:
> 
> Create an account on this forum
> Tell his (her?) side of the story *politely*
> Apologize if he's erred
> Promise to make it right, even if doing so leaves him out of pocket
> Assure the public (i.e., prospective customers) that he will make corrections to reduce the likelihood of this happening again
> It's all just part of managing one's online reputation. It's hard to put yourself out there, especially in a thread like this, but the consequences of not doing so, in my respectful opinion, can be great. (This thread already shows up (for me) on the first page of Google results when I search for "Pride Cycles".)
> 
> For what it's worth, I ride stock titanium (Merlin) and have considered custom titanium, though I haven't been convinced that I need any special geometry. I know that there are a lot of bigger companies that do custom, but it seems that a lot of the smaller shops (but certainly not all of them) are often built on the reputations of the frame builders themselves--Spectrum Cycles, Richard Sachs, Kishbike, etc.
> 
> And for budget custom titanium, the standard recommendation seems to be Habanero ($1,300 http://www.habcycles.com/custom.html).


This is a bad idea. This forum seems to breed the worst kind of suspicious know-it-alls I've ever seen in 8 years of internet forum participation. The owner would be immediately backed into a corner where any defense he might have to offer was villianized, and would spend half of his posts just trying to convince people he is who he says.

It sounds like the Pride guys have their hands full with trying to run their business. I can't think of a bigger wasted of time than attempting to fight the BS on this forum. Maybe he could try Serotta's forum or some other ones not ruled by mobs.


----------



## veloduffer

DanAyo - before you build the bike up and ride it, you might make inquiry to a ti frame builder (Carl Strong, or Jim Kish who also teaches welding at UBI) to look over the frame; they would probably do it for a nominal fee. It's cheap health insurance to avoid a serious injury should some breakage occurs that could have been forseen. No different than having a mechanic check out a used car before a purchase.


----------



## FatTireFred

veloduffer said:


> DanAyo - before you build the bike up and ride it, you might make inquiry to a ti frame builder (Carl Strong, or Jim Kish who also teaches welding at UBI) to look over the frame; they would probably do it for a nominal fee. It's cheap health insurance to avoid a serious injury should some breakage occurs that could have been forseen. No different than having a mechanic check out a used car before a purchase.




I doubt that someone can guarantee the integrity of the welds by just looking at them. I also doubt that a reputable builder would put his reputation on the line over this. Imagine if one were to 'ok' the frame and then it breaks...

and the upper bb cup doesn't look to be fully seated


----------



## SystemShock

rx-79g said:


> This is a bad idea. This forum seems to breed the worst kind of suspicious know-it-alls I've ever seen in 8 years of internet forum participation. The owner would be immediately backed into a corner where any defense he might have to offer was villianized, and would spend half of his posts just trying to convince people he is who he says.
> 
> It sounds like the Pride guys have their hands full with trying to run their business. I can't think of a bigger wasted of time than attempting to fight the BS on this forum. Maybe he could try Serotta's forum or some other ones not ruled by mobs.


Sigh. Take a deep breath. Hold it. Hooold it. Now exhale. 

Feel better now?

Ok, yes, if the Pride guys came on the forum to give their side, they'd likely face some hard questions. BUT, if some ppl were being overly unreasonable/douchey about it, they'd get called out on that, probably even by some of the ppl you accuse of being part of a so-called 'mob'. 

It really would depend on how the Pride guys approached it. If they came on here and were open and transparent about what happened, and had an eye towards fixing the current probs and whatever processes contributed to the probs, they'd probably end up very well-respected, and their PR probs would go away.

But if they came on here and just blew smoke up everyone's arse, then yeah, they'd likely take a lot of flak. Such is the internets, and that's probably the way it should be. 

You can accept it, or you can continue to cry about how everyone's part of an 'angry mob' just because they don't agree with you. *shrug*
.


----------



## Bacana

rx-79g said:


> This is a bad idea. This forum seems to breed the worst kind of suspicious know-it-alls I've ever seen in 8 years of internet forum participation. The owner would be immediately backed into a corner where any defense he might have to offer was villianized, and would spend half of his posts just trying to convince people he is who he says.
> 
> It sounds like the Pride guys have their hands full with trying to run their business. I can't think of a bigger wasted of time than attempting to fight the BS on this forum. Maybe he could try Serotta's forum or some other ones not ruled by mobs.


You have some valid points, but the main benefit to posting here in this thread would not be the chance of swaying any of the handful of active posters in this thread but rather the chance of telling his side of the story to the readers (or lurkers, which I was until I posted today) or untold thousands who will read this post in the future looking for information. It's actually a bit late, though, as his post ideally would have appeared early on.

As has been said already, businesses are defined not just by their products or services and how they handle their operations, but by how they handle the inevitable problems that arise.


----------



## veloduffer

FatTireFred said:


> I doubt that someone can guarantee the integrity of the welds by just looking at them. I also doubt that a reputable builder would put his reputation on the line over this. Imagine if one were to 'ok' the frame and then it breaks...
> 
> and the upper bb cup doesn't look to be fully seated


That might be true but I would think obvious mistakes could easily be identified. Certainly someone who teaches welding at UBI has seen his fair share of mistakes made by students.

Considering that we are participating in a high speed sport, it behooves us to make sure our equipment is in good shape. Nothing worse than having an equipment failure on road with many cars.


----------



## covenant

rx-79g said:


> This is a bad idea. This forum seems to breed the worst kind of suspicious know-it-alls I've ever seen in 8 years of internet forum participation. I can't think of a bigger wasted of time than attempting to fight the BS on this forum.


If we're so bad why hang around? There must be friendlier cycling forums out there...

Personally I think your're a good match for rbr. Your posting history is equal parts snark, sarcasm and condescension. :thumbsup:


----------



## Waves77

Boy am I ever in the wrong business... where can I find me some customers that will settle for "hey, I didn't pay that much for it". It would save me hours of emailing and phone calls if I could ignore my customer service...


----------



## FatTireFred

veloduffer said:


> That might be true but I would think obvious mistakes could easily be identified. Certainly someone who teaches welding at UBI has seen his fair share of mistakes made by students.




wouldn't obvious mistakes be, well, obvious???

sure, they might-could tell you if it's a bad weld, but that's not the same as saying it's a 'good' weld


----------



## ColoRoadie

On titanium, sure...fairly obvious...to someone who has looked at a few thousand welds and knows a bit about titanium. But, if the first dozen welds you've ever scrutinized are on the frame in your hands that you just paid good money for and titanium is just an expensive & pretty type of steel as far as you know....then having an expert take a look is certainly a good idea. I'll bet they would even take a look at photos over the net if he asked real nice. 

Take a real good and accurate pic, attach it to an email and ask a high end Ti frame builder if this photo is cause for concern...I'll bet a full water bottle that he would give you a straight answer. I think that's the best idea I've seen in here yet. An artist such as the guy that did the Strong welds shown earlier in this thread is typically happy to spend a few minutes sharing his knowledge. Not always....but usually...provided business is good of course.


----------



## ColoRoadie

GirchyGirchy said:


> Moots weld, just for fun. OM NOM NOM NOM


Oh my....

Clean up on isle 5!


----------



## draganM

rx-79g said:


> You should let the guys from Merlin that invented this method 20 years ago know about your opinions. I'll be sure to post when my Extralight fails from the "stress risers".
> Hooded dropouts are a labor saving device - they aren't 'better', just easier to weld. That's what they say at the UCI frame building school, anyway.


 I plainly said that that hooded dropouts reduce the amount of prep needed on the end of the seat stay or chain stay, in other words you can leave them as-cut. You can also do it the way Strong welded it but the end of tube needs to be prepped differently.Strong practically squared off the end of the chain stay, creating stress riser *in my opinion *I think my opinion is just as valid as anyone elses on the internet. If you want to compare to Merlin here's a pic. Look at how shallow of an angle they used on the chain stay. the transition from the forged drop-out to the tubing is almost flat. Also, a pic of their welds before any brushing


----------



## locominute

*pride ti*

here are the welds
expert comments are welcomed.

Dave did fax me some receipts for his US souced tubing... but one tube may not be US milled as per his website.
it came from nova and I spoke with a lady who said that mostly likely the tube is from China but inspected here.
the drop outs are from Paragon Machine works.
another source is titanium joe's.


----------



## sonic_W

Here are some Motobecane Ti welds. Could you armchair welders assess these?
http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=6332491&postcount=48

I haven't seen a dropout weld, but the rest don't look much different than Pride's-- just cleaned and finished. But what do I know?


----------



## zoikz

*Why?*

What prompted you to order from these guys? Anyone with any reason other than they were cheap?


----------



## locominute

promises of 

1. US milled/source titanium
2. custom geometry
3. quality craftsmanship...I guess that is currently where the debate is at along with the aforementioned communication issues.


----------



## locominute

the lady who welded my frame? and Dave


----------



## zoikz

locominute said:


> promises of
> 
> 1. US milled/source titanium
> 2. custom geometry
> 3. quality craftsmanship...I guess that is currently where the debate is at along with the aforementioned communication issues.


That's really just the reason to get a custom bike, but why (other than they are cheap) go with Pride? 
Seems ironic that the company with American flags all over their bikes, promising everything US sourced, and calling itself PRIDE does about the crappiest job you can. Personally I think it says something about businesses who wear patriotism on their sleeve; I don't trust them.


----------



## ColoRoadie

Cheap is certainly a motivation that a lot of us could get excited about. I certainly could anyway. As long as the welds looked more like Loco's pictures than the previous ones, it was delivered when promised (or thereabouts) with correct geometry and none of the QC problems mentioned earlier...I would probably give Pride the benefit of the doubt. The only real question is can they do all of that consistently and only time will tell. Their current track record is pretty bad, but they are aware of it...so it is up to them to put the processes in place to fix their problems.

I think Loco's looks pretty decent though perhaps could have been cleaned better. It is good to see his struggle end well. So, build it up Loco and let us know how it goes...and don't be shy about sharing pics! Congrats on the new Ti man, now lets hear a ride report!


----------



## locominute

sdfsd


----------



## locominute

-it is not the crappiest job--the crappiest job was from the guy whom I paid in full, for a fully built frame that was on his web site...waited 3 months for a new paint job and never received--that was the crappiest job.
-US builder by the way

--
Zoikz. 
do you have experience with a custom bike frame builder? who? what was it like?

oh -- my frame does not have American flags all over --- the Tennessee flag

why go with Pride specifically then? 
they were the least expensive US tubed ti 
custom maker... end of story. 

According to email with titanium joe the tubing sources are from Hayne/Sandvik. only for specific unusual dimensions does he gets stuff from China and only from 1 factory
I doubt bike standard bike tubing goes under the category of unusual dimensions
So if you could deal with some less than perfect double pass welds on the drop outs 
--some dropped communications, then Pride has to be the bargain custom bike maker
ti steel alloy carbon or otherwise.

I have the feeling this is how it is with very small , start up frame builders. 
the time line from initial deposit date till frame arrival was about 4.5 months -- not bad total wait compared to a steel builder who quoted 3 to 5 months.
I am still waiting for a email reply to another steel builder over 1 month ago. Builder's are builder's not internet geeks who spend more time chatting about bikes than riding them.

anybody have any idea how long for a custom Seven or IF Serotta or Spectrum?
or cost? Ahearne or Vanilla--granted they are considered to be in a different league.
better yet.. how long between stated time of completion and actual date of complete for a kitchen remodel ( I know, I am digressing)

I invite anyone in the SF area to come take a look at the frame and am more than happy to trade/riding talk about the bike once it is built. of course I may have a completely different opinion of Pride then.


----------



## draganM

locominute said:


> here are the welds
> expert comments are welcomed.


 i'm not an expertbut those look pretty good to me. If I weld consistently for weeks I can't get any better than that and i've rarely done anything as tight as and hard to reach as the tubing junctions on a bike frame. especially the BB area. I suspect that your pics and previous ones weren't done by the same person? who knows, maybe their primary person was ill or gone and they got backed up? Someone else filled in when they're in a pinch?
I know every small business is someones dream to succeed, to support their family, to leave something behind for their kids to inherit. It's why I try not pile on in threads an my comments on the previous pics posted were my honest opinion.
I hope these guys work out the kinks in their customer service and do well.


----------



## BadWolf

locominute said:


> anybody have any idea how long for a custom Seven or IF Serotta or Spectrum?
> or cost? Ahearne or Vanilla--granted they are considered to be in a different league.


Don't know about the others but according to their web site the wait time for Vanilla is 5 years and they stop taking orders in 2009.


----------



## roshea

motloc said:


> So, in all seriousness I will update this thread tomorrow with pictures of the frame I get. Honestly I really hope the frame is nice (and that the other two guys on this thread get their frames), and that I can post good reviews about Pride. The last thing I wanted was to bad mouth a small frame builder, but enough was enough. Anyway, I'll post something tomorrow. Did Pride contact either of the other guys with frame problems?


Motloc - you didn't get around to posting pics or your experience with the frame once it arrived. Please, since you started this thread, can you bring us up to date?


----------



## orange_julius

locominute said:


> anybody have any idea how long for a custom Seven or IF Serotta or Spectrum?
> or cost?


Seven's wait time is about 6-8 weeks depending on the time of the year. This seems typical for a larger-size custom builder. Cyfac is also 6-8 weeks, for example, even though they deal with custom tube-to-tube carbon, not Ti.


----------



## locominute

just a bit more quips on the frame and prep..
the lower head tube and bb could be better faced...still with lip
at least the upper head tube is nicely faced.


at least the bb seams properly reamed.
the seat tube opening could stand a better buffing.


----------



## raymonda

locominute said:


> just a bit more quips on the frame and prep..
> the lower head tube and bb could be better faced...still with lip
> at least the upper head tube is nicely faced.
> 
> 
> at least the bb seams properly reamed.
> the seat tube opening could stand a better buffing.



Are you saying the headtube is not properly faced? Given that this frame is titanium, it should come from the factory in ready to build condition and not left to the customer to have it prep'ed.


----------



## locominute

correct... the headtube was not properly faced .. only the top was..



I don't think the workshop is a big factory operation.. though he did promise that it would be properly prep.
not a big deal as my bike builder has the facing tools.

Pride's facing tool may need a little sharpening.

total cost with shipping $1265


----------



## Kaleo

Can't believe I read this entire thread... amusing of not educational...


----------



## hotshot

Pictures of your Pride bikes..I want to see some pictures...


----------



## locominute

*another shop photo*

who belongs to this frame?


----------



## FatTireFred

locominute said:


> who belongs to this frame?




a cable stop in the middle of the tt? kinda odd...


----------



## locominute

it's custom so whatever the customer ordered.


----------



## rx-79g

FatTireFred said:


> a cable stop in the middle of the tt? kinda odd...


Probably a cable guide. There are those who prefer an uninterrupted run of cable housing to keep dirt out.


----------



## ellipsis212

rx-79g said:


> How will we know the photo isn't Photoshopped? I think DanAyo should send everyone on this thread a sample of his mother's gumbo as proof that he is in Louisiana!


yeah, and what day of the week does she make red beans n rice?


----------



## Click Click Boom

locominute said:


> who belongs to this frame?


That may be my frame. I recieved it monday afternoon and had it all built up tuesday. Its been out on three rides for a total of 80 miles. I had pride build me a 26 inch wheeled trail bike with Paragon Sliders that is currently built up as a single speed.the bike comes in at a hair under 20 plunds with a heavy reba race on the front of it.


----------



## Click Click Boom

Sorry for the bad spelling. I just got home from a 12 hour work day and am not all there......


----------



## locominute

hey click... congrats !!!... 

what was your experience with pride? like some of us here on the thread?

more importantly, bike rides/ fit fine?


----------



## brujenn

You guys keep going, I'll be back in a week or so to check on you.


----------



## Click Click Boom

The bike rides great so far. Everything was as I ordered it. The frame needed a bit more prepping than Im used to. 

I was told 5 weeks and the frame showed up at my door in 6 weeks. Pride gave me a heads up that the frame would be shipping a little late. I never had any of the customer service issues that anyone in this thread had. 

As for build quality, 95% good. The welds look good with no discoloration. (Very close to my Lynskey Built Vassago Optimus Ti.) everything is in spec and as ordered. The frame rides great so far. 

The frame did need more prepping that I would have liked. I'm not a Bike tech but I have been a very good shade tree car mechanic and know may way around tools. The BB needed to be chased/tapped and there were a few edges around the head tube that neede to be smoothed over. One of the seat stays has a bit more clearence for the tire than the other (crimped a littel more?). I had to take a micrometer to them to be sure. The seat stay themselves are shaped the same and line up perfectly.

The frame needed less prep work and was more true than tha Habanero custom frame I built up for a friend of mine at a litte less money. This frame purchase to this point was a good choice and I would order another frame from them. 

My rigs get road hard and put away wet. Im looking for a functional long lasting custom geo stiff Ti frame. I'm not worried about how pretty a frame is. If this is what you are looking for Pride is worth a look. If your looking for something that is all that and a show peace, there are other frame builders that can do this better for you at double or triple the price.

Thats my Pride story.


----------



## coyotegulch

*My Pride saga over......*

Well, I believe my saga with Pride is finally over. After reproting about the still misaligned frame that I received back from Pride, I returned it. About the same time I returned the frame to Pride my credit card company came through and said they would credit me back my purchase price if I still wanted to do so, and could explain the situation in further detail. I sent them all my saved emails, a copy of my receipt, and the info from shipping the frame back to Pride the second time. I have not heard anything from Pride since I returned the frame to them, but I know they received it back from the tracking info.

So, I think I am done with this whole issue. I am still out $250 for having the bike built and torn down twice in order to return it to Pride. David *assured *me he would cover this out of pocket expense, and if I receive it I will post here. 

I wish nothing but the best to any future Pride customers.


----------



## motloc

roshea said:


> Motloc - you didn't get around to posting pics or your experience with the frame once it arrived. Please, since you started this thread, can you bring us up to date?


I haven't had the heart to build up the bike yet. It looks pretty nice, but there are several things different from what I specified: It's got a sloping top tube (I specified horizontal); it has a replaceable der. hanger (I specified non-replaceable), and the BB shell is very, very thin (I asked them to use the thickest one that Paragon makes). Those things are significant or insignificant, depending on your point of view. There are metal shavings remaining in the seat tube. The HT and BB look faced, etc., but I can't say for sure. I have no idea if it's alligned correctly or not; what axle-to-crown length the frame is built for, etc.

That said, the welds look good and the frame looks pretty nice. I honestly think that if Pride perfected their customer service and paid attention to the customers' requests (or just stopped building custom), improved QC, they'd build nice bikes. I'll post some pics tonight. It's just that I have been hesitant to spend the time and money building it up. I will do so eventually I think, but right now I'm riding old faithful (a 1999 Litespeed Classic) and waiting until the team gets the new CAAD10s for my race bike.


----------



## mymilkexpired

motloc said:


> I haven't had the heart to build up the bike yet. It looks pretty nice, but there are several things different from what I specified: It's got a sloping top tube (I specified horizontal); it has a replaceable der. hanger (I specified non-replaceable), and the BB shell is very, very thin (I asked them to use the thickest one that Paragon makes). Those things are significant or insignificant, depending on your point of view. There are metal shavings remaining in the seat tube. The HT and BB look faced, etc., but I can't say for sure. I have no idea if it's alligned correctly or not; what axle-to-crown length the frame is built for, etc.
> 
> That said, the welds look good and the frame looks pretty nice. I honestly think that if Pride perfected their customer service and paid attention to the customers' requests (or just stopped building custom), improved QC, they'd build nice bikes. I'll post some pics tonight. It's just that I have been hesitant to spend the time and money building it up. I will do so eventually I think, but right now I'm riding old faithful (a 1999 Litespeed Classic) and waiting until the team gets the new CAAD10s for my race bike.



You seem a bit too relaxed about the condition of your 1000.00 investment. I would build the bike up pronto and determine the status of the frame before you let to much time go by...


----------



## Ridgetop

For a "custom" frame that's a lot of missed "custom" requests. Yikes.


----------



## motloc

mymilkexpired said:


> You seem a bit to relaxed about the condition of your 1000.00 investment. I would build the bike up pronto and determine the status of the frame before you let to much time go by...


Not relaxed, just resigned. Even if the frame turns out to be upside down and backwards, what the heck am I gonna do? Send it back to Pride and wait another 6 months? I got what I got, so I'll build it up eventually and see what's what.


----------



## Waves77

motloc said:


> Not relaxed, just resigned. Even if the frame turns out to be upside down and backwards, what the heck am I gonna do? Send it back to Pride and wait another 6 months? I got what I got, so I'll build it up eventually and see what's what.


Shouldn't you be able to dispute it with your CC company, since they never delivered what you asked for?


----------



## FatTireFred

Ridgetop said:


> For a "custom" frame that's a lot of missed "custom" requests. Yikes.




yeah, and theTT is a HUGE miss...


----------



## motloc

Waves77 said:


> Shouldn't you be able to dispute it with your CC company, since they never delivered what you asked for?


Another lesson learned--use a CC, not a debit card. The bank said they are unable to do anything after 90 days.


----------



## Waves77

motloc said:


> Another lesson learned--use a CC, not a debit card. The bank said they are unable to do anything after 90 days.


Damn dude that sucks - have you tried contacting Visa or Mastercard directly? It's a long shot, but since even a debit card runs through them they might be able to do something if you explain all the delays on Pride's part.


----------



## Kuma601

Unfortunately in the end, the OP's experience has been educational for many of us. Even if we don't consider a custom frame from this maker, the scenario has made many of us aware of the potential problems.


----------



## mymilkexpired

Its a matter of principle for me. I'd be in a car/on a plane to get in someones face about making it right...


----------



## 18usc371

motloc said:


> Not relaxed, just resigned. Even if the frame turns out to be upside down and backwards, what the heck am I gonna do? Send it back to Pride and wait another 6 months? I got what I got, so I'll build it up eventually and see what's what.


Sir,

You are a calmer, more rational person than I! 

I would hound Pride like no tomorrow for a refund. It's the right thing for them to do. They probably don't care, but it would me feel better to do something. 

I'd have to sell it and try to recover some $, take the lost on the sale as a life lesson. I could not ride my "custom" frame knowing it was not "my" custom frame. The TT thing alone would bother the crap out of me every time I looked at - let alone everything else. 

Save up and don't give up on your custom dream. You don't need to spend $5K, but there is a price for admission to the custom TI game, $1200 aint it.

Good luck and great rides to you!


----------



## sonic_W

Click Click Boom said:


> The bike rides great so far. Everything was as I ordered it. The frame needed a bit more prepping than Im used to.
> 
> I was told 5 weeks and the frame showed up at my door in 6 weeks. Pride gave me a heads up that the frame would be shipping a little late. I never had any of the customer service issues that anyone in this thread had.
> 
> As for build quality, 95% good. The welds look good with no discoloration. (Very close to my Lynskey Built Vassago Optimus Ti.) everything is in spec and as ordered. The frame rides great so far.
> 
> The frame did need more prepping that I would have liked. I'm not a Bike tech but I have been a very good shade tree car mechanic and know may way around tools. The BB needed to be chased/tapped and there were a few edges around the head tube that neede to be smoothed over. One of the seat stays has a bit more clearence for the tire than the other (crimped a littel more?). I had to take a micrometer to them to be sure. The seat stay themselves are shaped the same and line up perfectly.
> 
> The frame needed less prep work and was more true than tha Habanero custom frame I built up for a friend of mine at a litte less money. This frame purchase to this point was a good choice and I would order another frame from them.
> 
> My rigs get road hard and put away wet. Im looking for a functional long lasting custom geo stiff Ti frame. I'm not worried about how pretty a frame is. If this is what you are looking for Pride is worth a look. If your looking for something that is all that and a show peace, there are other frame builders that can do this better for you at double or triple the price.
> 
> Thats my Pride story.


Must be a shill. Here phishy phishy.






[/typical forum poster]
Glad to hear it worked out. Got more pics?


----------



## Click Click Boom

I've been a member on mtbr for a while now, not a shill and your an arse clown. Yes I called you a "name" No differnt than what you called me. 

Someone posted a link to this thread on MTBR so I checked it out.

I have taken the bike out several more times since I built it up. I have noticed a few things worth a mention. I threw the bike together quickly and missed a few things.

1: seat post seams a litte loose. It doesnt slip on me when riding but it does creak a little. I wraped it with one layer of teflon tape and the creek went away for three rides. Its back after a short 18 mile trail ride today.

2. It was easy for me to get the rear wheel to track when I built up the bike. But when I changed gears I noticed that one of the the rear sliders seems to start about 3mm farther back than the other. thuis may be the frame, It ma be the the Paragon slider itsself or mabe an axle. I'll take a better look at it in the morning.

The bike does ride great and time will tell if it was worth it. Am I pleased with the bike? Yes. Would I Order another frame from them? Not sure.


----------



## ColoRoadie

motloc said:


> I haven't had the heart to build up the bike yet. It looks pretty nice, but there are several things different from what I specified: It's got a sloping top tube (I specified horizontal); it has a replaceable der. hanger (I specified non-replaceable), and the BB shell is very, very thin (I asked them to use the thickest one that Paragon makes). Those things are significant or insignificant, depending on your point of view. There are metal shavings remaining in the seat tube. The HT and BB look faced, etc., but I can't say for sure. I have no idea if it's alligned correctly or not; what axle-to-crown length the frame is built for, etc.
> 
> That said, the welds look good and the frame looks pretty nice. I honestly think that if Pride perfected their customer service and paid attention to the customers' requests (or just stopped building custom), improved QC, they'd build nice bikes. I'll post some pics tonight. It's just that I have been hesitant to spend the time and money building it up. I will do so eventually I think, but right now I'm riding old faithful (a 1999 Litespeed Classic) and waiting until the team gets the new CAAD10s for my race bike.


My God. I can't even fathom the incompetence necessary to botch a custom order this badly. I would send that frame back straight away with a note that said if a refund or new frame had not arrived at my door in two weeks, I would personally arrive at their door instead. An experience they would not soon forget, I do assure you. 

Man, I feel for you and I understand you are tired of the frustration...but they haven't given you what you paid for. File a small claims suit in their town and make it for the price you paid plus your transportation and housing to their town. You will win. It can't go any other way if you show the judge the proof you no doubt have. 

Or you could drive to their shop and shove the frame up the owners #%*^#. ...well....that might be a bit harsh. Nah...no it's not.


----------



## Bacana

motloc, you owe it to yourself to at least ask Pride whether you can just return the frame for a refund. No harm in asking; it'll take a minute or two, and doing so could solve your problem once and for all.



sonic_W said:


> Must be a shill. Here phishy phishy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/typical forum poster]
> Glad to hear it worked out. Got more pics?





Click Click Boom said:


> I've been a member on mtbr for a while now, not a shill and your an arse clown. Yes I called you a "name" No differnt than what you called me.
> 
> Someone posted a link to this thread on MTBR so I checked it out.


My reading of sonic_W's post is that he (or she) was commenting on what typically happens here--someone posts something positive and gets labeled a shill. I certainly didn't take it to mean that you were a shill. Quite the opposite.

I also thought your post came across as honest.


----------



## Waves77

Bacana said:


> My reading of sonic_W's post is that he (or she) was commenting on what typically happens here--someone posts something positive and gets labeled a shill. I certainly didn't take it to mean that you were a shill. Quite the opposite.
> 
> I also thought your post came across as honest.


+1 _ I definitely think he was just trying to be sarcastic. Besides, at this point no possible amount of shilling would save this thread... Pride has proven to screw up often without any intention of providing at least acceptable customer service.


----------



## Dajianshan

I'm sure I just need to grow up... or maybe it is just because of my West Coast upbringing... but every time this thread pops up on the RBR thread list, I can't help but imagine THIS is the bike you're all talking about.


----------



## locominute

so the bike got built... issues however

1. the 1" chainstays were not bent as originally discussed .. didn't seem a problem ..when I first got the frame but when built, my mechanic had to put 3.5mm of spacer between the drive side BB cup so that the chainring wouldn't hit the chainstay

2. because of a glob of 2nd pass weld and perhaps lack of angulation of the drive side chainstay, the smallest cog (12t) was hitting the chainstay / drop out junction.
so my mechanic (USCF race certified) put a 2mm spacer inbetween the drop out and then the cassette.

3. the BB drop appears to be 70mm not the 80mm which I was very specific about .
BB height with 23mm road tire is 26.5 from the ground.

talk to CC / and Dave... suppose to send the frame back to him to I guess fix the right chainstay..

--yeah I know I am beating a dead horse..


----------



## locominute

forgot to add the wheel had to be re dish to account for the spacer.

a lot BB thread chasing and facing still had to be done.


----------



## Waves77

Damn dude... that sucks beyond all suckiness. 

To make matters worse, I read somewhere on their blog that they were offering to make OEM frames for other companies too..


----------



## FatTireFred

that's a lot of bs to put up with... so because of all the monkeying around to make it fit, you won't be able to easily swap wheels, right? lame


----------



## Elfstone

Thank the powers that be I ordered my custom frame from a local reputable frame builder here in Sacramento just 25 minutes from where I live. And to think I actually gave Pride a think over before I decided to go local and spend almost twice as much for my dream RexCycle.

Peace


----------



## SystemShock

That sucks, Loco... sorry there were so many issues with your Pride frame. 

.


----------



## Kuma601

Man...this is a sad and disappointing result. :frown5::frown2:


----------



## rx-79g

locominute said:


> forgot to add the wheel had to be re dish to account for the spacer.
> 
> a lot BB thread chasing and facing still had to be done.


Hi. I think you're aware that I've been pretty fair neutral about Pride in this thread, and willing to see what they can do. But after reading the latest, I really have to say that this frame needs to be returned, preferably for a full refund. Not being able to take a standard wheel is certainly criteria for a return. I realize that after all the struggle it may seem easier to just make do, but please don't. Given the range of errors they have committed, it is not unfair to also suspect the strength of the frame and its safety.

Pride has been given a lot of slack, and have used it to hang themselves. The mistakes they are making are beginner errors, and no discount is large enough to stomach that level of foolishness.

Please return the frame for a refund. If it's replacement must be custom and cheap, get a reputable Chinese house to do it, or buy a Lynskey or Litespeed. 

Pride is going to continue poisoning the water with their products if their customers allow them to put stuff like this on the street. Either they will learn, or die. Either option is better than them continuing to sell something this awful.


----------



## misterdangerpants

rx-79g said:


> ....The mistakes they are making are beginner errors, and no discount is large enough to stomach that level of foolishness.....


Well said, sir. Well said. :thumbsup:


----------



## tomstork

*Followup*

My frame arrived two weeks ago; it's just what I asked for -- essentially a 68cm frame with a dropped and sloped top tube (to minimize the size of the main triangle, while allowing the same stem height without a ton of spacers) and only a 45mm drop to allow for 205mm cranks. Powder-coated green because that's what I wanted.

It rides beautifully -- though honestly, I'm not sure what I'd compare it to, since it's so different from anything else I've ridden. The fit and finish are what I'd hoped for--and not what I'd been led to fear from this forum. My only complaint -- other than the time it took to complete -- is that the Phil Wood BB I asked for got backordered, so they shipped it with a Litespeed BB installed instead; until the Phil unit actually arrived last week, my chain line was off. Now it's all set, so I don't think that's a lasting complaint. I had sent my parts and asked them to build it; because of the delay, they comped me for the build.

I do have to say that, up until a few weeks ago, their communication left something to be desired -- but I think they may have had some problems that they've largely kept to themselves that probably led to a lot of this. They've been better at responding since then.

So my bottom line is the same as it's been since I first posted on this forum: they are a new firm, with some of the problems that can come from that. But also some of the benefits: I'll have to weigh in again in a few months, but I feel like I got a pretty good deal, with a very custom-spec Ti frame for <$1,200 plus extras.

I'll continue to argue that they're also reasonable, fair, and honest (the shipping tracking number I saw referred to seems to be an issue of the customer not realizing that the USPS and UPS tracking systems give error messages for a while after the parcel is in the system, even when nothing is wrong--as anyone who has used either one when buying on ebay would recognize).

Bottom line: I am sure that the posters who have had issues with build mistakes probably have legitimate complaints -- but I'm also sure that David will make good on fixing them. But I'd buy another bike from them if I were in the market. Guess this makes me a shill. Your mileage may vary, as they say.


----------



## Waves77

tomstork said:


> Guess this makes me a shill..


No, it makes you a freaking idiot. Did you even read the amount of things that were wrong with locominute's frame!?

That type of stuff is completely unacceptable, not matter what the price.


----------



## locominute

you are right fat tire fred... I won't be able to easily swap rear wheels unless it has been redished specifically for this frame.

I would be more mad but I still have my steel tesch to ride.

for the few hundreds of feet I rode the ride it was absolutely stiff and responsive the way I wanted it to ride... I guess that is what kills me.
gorgeous to look at too. 
there maybe a way to correct the right CS issue but not sure about the BB drop dilemma
.


----------



## locominute

tomstork... 
.... won't mistake it for anything production.
I only wished I had the same out come as yours

what diameter CS dt tt st is used only your frame.?


----------



## Ridgetop

Elfstone said:


> Thank the powers that be I ordered my custom frame from a local reputable frame builder here in Sacramento just 25 minutes from where I live. And to think I actually gave Pride a think over before I decided to go local and spend almost twice as much for my dream RexCycle.
> 
> Peace


Hey Elf! That's quite the upgrade from your old ride. Congrats! I see a lot of Rex frames on riders that come up from Sac and the Central Valley to ride in the Deathride and around Tahoe. Never heard anything but great comments on the frame!


----------



## tomstork

I wish you had too -- I'm sorry it hasn't worked out better (yet).

Dunno on the CS; downtube is 50mm; top tube, seat tube and head tube are (I think) the same -- 35.9?

Seat angle is 73°, head tube is 73.5°; top tube is 61.5cm, seat stay is 41cm; wheelbase comes out at 104cm. It's about 5cm longer than my old 63cm Cannondale criterium frame!


----------



## tomstork

I think it just makes me not a jackass who pops off about other people's problems without really knowing anything for sure. Why are you angrier about it than locominute seems to be?


----------



## serious

Having read this sad thread, I don't know what is more disturbing, the unbelieveable screw ups from Pride or the posts from people like *tomstork*, *DanAyo*, *Click*.

In a thread that shows a repeated pattern of mistakes, lies and unacceptable business practices, your success stories come across as suspicious and even insensitive to those whose experience amounts to a nightmare. 

I cannot understand your motivation, but I assure you that it is misguided and it does not serve to restore any credibility in Pride.


----------



## ColoRoadie

Loco, man I'm sorry your custom has turned out like that. It must be a pretty big heartache. It would be for me.

Tom, I believe you less and less the more often you post. You have still not posted anything on RBR's many cycling pages except for inside this post. That is just odd which when combined with how you constantly try to spin what other RBR members say about their Pride experiences....I'm convinced you are associated with pride and running damage control. Why else would you be so intent on spinning others Pride problems? I own a Ford, but if yours blows up tomorrow....I'm not going to make excuses for Ford...much less try to make you out to be the badguy. Your motivation is highly questionable at best.


----------



## SystemShock

Waves77 said:


> No, it makes you a freaking idiot. Did you even read the amount of things that were wrong with locominute's frame!?
> 
> That type of stuff is completely unacceptable, not matter what the price.


+1.

Too bad too, as I was going to do a custom titanium bike at some point, and Pride, if they'd been competent, might've been a cheap option. But life's simply too short to put up with a company that can't even get the _basics_ on their frames right, and has terrible communication as the cherry-on-top.

Thanks, but no thanks. :skep:
.


----------



## Waves77

Shills or not, the amount of posts and traffic we've give this thread puts it as 4th results when you google for "pride cycles". so either way our work is done to warn others.


----------



## T K

I just love the " I hung out with Jeffrey Dahmer once and he didn't kill and eat me, so I'd hang out with him again" aproach.


----------



## tomstork

I'm plenty sensitive to the people who have had bad experiences, and I genuinely hope that Pride makes good on things for them. What I find disturbing -- well, not disturbing, so much as pathetic -- is the jumping to conclusions based on incomplete information, weighing in with "expertise" that ends up being nothing of the sort, eagerness to assume bad motivation, and flat-out dumb analytic conclusions from people, rather than level-headed discussion about bicycles. 

I think discussion about mistakes in building and what needs to be done to repair them, and what might have caused them -- if what might have caused them includes a full range of likely possibilities -- is perfectly appropriate. Weighing in with conspiracy theories and insinuation that people are dishonest -- I still am unaware of anything that Pride has said that is dishonest, rather than a client's misunderstanding of how package tracking websites work -- or colluding with people who are dishonest, and doing so with personal insults that then are justified because "this is the internet" probably don't do a lot to advance the cause (or understanding) of cycling.

I expect that the credibility of Pride, or me, is a lost cause for you and some of the other posters on here. I'm still posting because I hope that more reasonable/neutral people reading here will see that there are at least two sides to this story -- and that the world of small-time framebuilders isn't all crooks and their co-conspirators.


----------



## SystemShock




----------



## serious

tomstork: *I still am unaware of anything that Pride has said that is dishonest, rather than a client's misunderstanding of how package tracking websites work ... I'm still posting because I hope that more reasonable/neutral people reading here will see that there are at least two sides to this story*

Keep it up man, you are doing a fine job. NOT!


----------



## JustTooBig

tomstork said:


> I expect that the credibility of Pride, or me, is a lost cause for you and some of the other posters on here. I'm still posting because I hope that more reasonable/neutral people reading here will see that there are at least two sides to this story -- and that the world of small-time framebuilders isn't all crooks and their co-conspirators.


No one here has made any kind of statemet or insinuation that all or most small-time frame builders are crooks. Please don't forget how little credibility might be given to somene making wildly inaccurate statements. Many on this forum have already had dealings with other reputable custom builders, and our opinions have basis in those experiences. Many (including myself) have received custom frames built with impeccable welds and craftsmanship, careful attention to the smallest details, constructive communicaton, the list goes on... Apparently, virtually none of the Pride customers who have weighed in on this thread have received ANY of those things. We've heard repeated stories about blatant, unprofessional mistakes that are simply unacceptable -- from any builder, whether a "discount" builder or a premium builder from the"top shelf". 

I think part of the disbelief and outrage you are facing from others stems from the fact that you appear to believe that a "discount builder" should be allowed to make repeated mistakes, take shortcuts, and produce an inferior product simply because they charge less money. It also appears that most of the folks who have posted here believe that there is some minimum level of build quality / service that can reasonably be expected from any and every custom builder, regardless of how much they charge for their product. Those of us who have had postive experiences with reputable custom builders are astounded that shoddy workmanship and repeated mistakes should be tolerated fo ANY reason.

To many, it probably appears that your inexperence with the custom building process has led you to the naive notion that a "discount builder" shouldn't be held to some level of acceptable workmanship and professionalism. Some have expressed disbelief and amusement about that, others have expressed vitriol and anger. None of those should really surprise you. Really.


----------



## gibson00

Holy crap, just read this entire thread. What a f*cking joke.
I've been browsing the custom builders for a new frame.
I can only assume that Pride has done themselves a huge amount of damage. Gotta figure that any google search on them will show this thread.

Loco - I hope you get your issues resolved. I think you are crazy to even consider keeping the frame. Ship it back to them and fight with them until you get a refund. No sense riding a bike that you didn't order, has alignment issues, finishing issues. Even if worse case scenario, you end up being out the money, it's still not worth riding a POS frame that may not even be safe. An improperly aligned frame can be pretty scary on a fast downhill!!!!

You'd be better off riding any number of $500 frames off bonktown or ebay...


Wow....:mad2:


----------



## crossracer

The argument that they are a discount manafacture really doesnt hold water with me. In todays economy you need to provide top notch service, especially in the area or communications. 

I'm glad tomstork bike came out well, but all the other evidence here points to sloppy building, inattention to detail, and poor workmanship. 

Frankly im surprised that Tomstork bike went together so well, what we have seen here with other builds shows a almost complete lack of attention to detail in regards to build quality.

And Tomstork you have only posted to this thread. You are telling me that there are no other topics of interest to you on this whole wide forum? That and your determination to stick up for Pride really makes me wonder about your motives and your "report" on your bicycle. 

Bill


----------



## GirchyGirchy

rx-79g said:


> Please return the frame for a refund. If it's replacement must be custom and cheap, get a reputable Chinese house to do it, or buy a Lynskey or Litespeed.


Definitely this - not a replacement frame, but a refund. Mistakes that obvious and numerous are pretty scary.

Reading this and loco's account of his dealings with three other small builders brings to mind two sayings:

1) You get what you pay for

2) Don't go with the lowest bidder


----------



## ColoRoadie

Cheap is good, but when buying a cheap bike frame...the important words there are BIKE and FRAME. If the crank won't fit in the BB without the chainring striking the chain stays and the wheel won't fit without the cassette doing the same...it's not a bike frame, it's titanium wall art. Cheap, to me, means you lose something in comparison to the big names. Warranty, big name advertising, paint etc. Cheap doesn't mean you give up functionality. A bike frame still needs to be a functional bike frame. Otherwise, I have to wonder what the point of buying a 'custom frame' is. 

Some of these mistakes are very very basic in nature. The kind of mistakes made by a high school welding class trying to make their first bike frame. The crank won't rotate? Seriously? No quality control whatsoever. How Tom could possibly have received a perfect frame when the others are THAT bad....is....curious. They knew how to build a chainstay on his bike....but forgot how on the others? Odd.


----------



## SystemShock

gibson00 said:


> Holy crap, just read this entire thread. What a f*cking joke.
> I've been browsing the custom builders for a new frame.
> 
> I can only assume that Pride has done themselves a huge amount of damage. Gotta figure that any google search on them will show this thread.


It does... Google "Pride Cycles" and this thread shows up as 'Pride Cycles- Horrible experience'. It's the 5th hit.

All I can say is, I hope tomstork keeps it up. Maybe he can help get this thread to #1. 

It would've died long ago without all the shilling.
.


----------



## doogiepa

Wow I just read this whole thread, and I have a headache.

Obviously it is hard to say a certain company is "good" or "bad" and some customers may have a good experience and others not.

Loco, I hope you find the perfect bike.

And although I am not shilling, I want to put in a plug for Habanero. Anyone who wants a custom Ti frame should consider them. I got mine several months ago and could not be happier. The welds are not as "pretty" as a Moots/Lynskey/Litespeed, but the bike fits me like a glove and the USA contact had amazingly good communications with me. The cost is reasonable because the actual welding is done in China.


----------



## 18usc371

doogiepa - 

While I have no experience with Habanero, I've heard nothing but positive. 

When it comes to taste, art, etc., you can debate "good" or "bad". But a common misconception is that a "bad" company makes all or the vast majority of their product poorly. That is to say, they spec the wrong material or dial in the wrong setting on a machine, and all the widgets come off the assembly line messed up. 

When you're talking about a custom bike frame, a company should demand no less than 100% perfection. 99% percent perfect and 1% defect should keep a builder up at night with sweats. And by 100% perfection, I mean even if something leaves the shop with an error, the communication and return/correction process should bring it back to the 100% level when the dust settles.

Or to look at it another way, if you were buying a high-dollar item from eBay and the seller's rating is 70%, I'd tell you to RUN from dealing with them! Other posters have said essentially, "Hey the price is a bargain for the auction and the majority of the transactions were successful . . . " 

Or if only 10% of the customers at a restaurant get sick each night and the other 90% are fine, would you eat there? Or say, "Hey the food is really cheap, and the odds are I won't get sick."

If you're less than 99%, you're bad. The number of satisfied customers is irrelevant.


----------



## locominute

Redemption!!!:


----------



## locominute

the ride..quite nice...

the rear end is the most laterally stiffest frame I am been on ... equal probably to my klein hardtail...
I feel the bumps but not the vibration..
turns nice and quick. even though the BB drop was not as low as I spec'ed it is still lower 
than what I normally ride.


Bottom line...most responsive frame yet...including the tesch s22-
tarmac expert --xacd chi ti ( the latter 2 with a bit wiggly rear when sprinting uphill)
despite my concerns about the chainring hitting the CS ... no problem even on 18--20% grade..I guess I can live with the 3.5mm spacers being there.
more importantly, the chain did not hit the the seatstay/drop out junction when in the 12 cog --but really close.

Dave did mention that if I am not happy with frame to go ahead and return it. I think after today's pc he will be paying more attention to the drop out welds... he mentioned that he told his welders to be more attentive regarding welding the drop outs
if I really didn't like the drive side seat stay he swap it out.



BB drop was measured at 74.74mm per local performance bike shop wrench. will see if I can live with this..--could be that my reynoldsfork is a bit tall ?
still more fun around corner than any previous road frames
the drop out were a slight tight fit at 129.3mm slight pain taking the rear wheel in and out.

I started this week bummed about the frame....today I am quite stoked.
and very satisfiied w/ Pride.... will even leave on the decals.


----------



## raymonda

Is this the same frame that is totally out of spec with the current industry standard, e.g., you had to redish your rear wheel to fit. If so, it wouldn't matter to me how it rides......it is just plan wrong


----------



## locominute

yes it is the same frame ...'


the rear wheel redish turns out wasn't much...Currently, it has a veloce 10 speed hub but when I put in a neuvation r28sl rear wheel ( shimano 10 speed ) it was fine 
I guess different hubs alll have some slight differences in width and positioning of the freehub body
with exception of the BB drop the specs are fine... just the drive side seatstay/dropout junction is tight...will post photos later.....


----------



## T K

Wow, glad you're happy with it! 
I think I'll order one tommorrow! And after months of bullsh!t, head aches, non returned calls and e mails, shipping costs, and rebuilding costs, and not built to my specs, I too can have a super duper, stiff fast greatest frame ever made!!!!
Pro tour here I come!!!


----------



## locominute

Hey TK sounds like you have some experience with custom builders? no? yes?


I think if you start looking this experience is certainly not unique to Pride. Didn't you see the one about the guy whose BB was ovalized?
Or the other guy who waited 1.5 years for his frame....etc etc
In the end it was 4.5 months from deposit to frame.

Yes there was some headaches and wait time... but again I wasn't in a hurry.
I am also quite certain it was a learning experience for Pride.

Maybe I should start a new thread..". bad custom build experience"


----------



## Bacana

Haha, this thread is hilarious. At least no one could justifiably accuse locominute of being a shill.

I'd return the frame myself, but if locominute is happy with it, who am I to impose my views on him? (You're a he, I assume.)

locominute, glad you got the kid's grin on your face while riding. That's what it's all about.


----------



## CougarTrek

Whohoo, the bike that took a wizard of a mechanic to jerry-rig into something resembling functional rides decent.

After all the mistakes on Pride's end, that are still there, I'd call this a win for your mechanic, not the framebuilder...

I can't believe you're ok with riding a jerry-rigged, custom built bike that's not built for you, but congrats I guess.....


----------



## gibson00

T K said:


> Wow, glad you're happy with it!
> I think I'll order one tommorrow! And after months of bullsh!t, head aches, non returned calls and e mails, shipping costs, and rebuilding costs, and not built to my specs, I too can have a super duper, stiff fast greatest frame ever made!!!!
> Pro tour here I come!!!


Pretty much the response I was thinking too. 

I can't believe you are keeping the frame. I wouldn't feel safe on it. I'd feel terrible about the whole experience. The fact that your mechanic had to solve issues on a 'custom' bike. Christ, just the fact that they f*cked up with the sloping top tube? Do they not read their order sheets????
:mad2: :mad2: :mad2:


----------



## rx-79g

gibson00 said:


> Pretty much the response I was thinking too.
> 
> I can't believe you are keeping the frame. I wouldn't feel safe on it. I'd feel terrible about the whole experience. The fact that your mechanic had to solve issues on a 'custom' bike. Christ, just the fact that they f*cked up with the sloping top tube? Do they not read their order sheets????
> :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:


If I was the mechanic I would have advised sending it back to the manufacturer.


----------



## locominute

pretty close..but the chain doesn't hit..

Tomstork is right... some of you guys are really upset over this...could you be really working for Pride's competition? 
or are you guys truly so warmly supportive?

and yes I got an ace mechanic.


anyway offers stand for anybody to inspect and ride the bike.

works not completely done... I can always return the frame if I am not totally happy with the BB drop...will testing it against a known 80mm bb drop frame.


----------



## krisdrum

locominute said:


> some of you guys are really upset over this...could you be really working for Pride's competition?
> or are you guys truly so warmly supportive?
> 
> and yes I got an ace mechanic.


I think any passion comes from folks putting themselves in your shoes. If I just dropped 1200 on a custom frame, I'd expect it to be to spec and functional out of the box. And if it wasn't, there would be an issue.

And the point about having an ace mechanic is misguided in my opinion. The point is, you shouldn't NEED an ace mechanic if the frame had been properly produced.

I have a custom ti frame and I put it together myself. No issues, no snags outside of my FD clamp needing to be switched to something more adjustable so it wasn't covering a water bottle boss. Everything else is perfect. And I flipped out about the clamp until I realized what the issue was.

No one should NEED to cobble a bike together unless they WANT to, instead of being FORCED to.

Again, just a differing opinion. I'm glad you are happy with the frame, but personally, I would not be.


----------



## 18usc371

O.k., so I've been going on and on and on about the importance of quality control and customer service. I've lost focus on what is important - the end result!

After reviewing re-reading these posts and trying to put myself in the Pride customers' shoes, I have to admit I'm starting to see their POV. Perhaps I have been too critical and most you have been too harsh.

I'm starting my own custom frame shop. I will work in steel and Ti only. Totally custom, nothing off the rack. Send me your measurements and you dream design, and of course, full payment. I will make whatever I want. You want a sloping top tube - no problem, wait until the frame arrives and we'll see what I decided to do! Bent chain stays, no problem, I'll make them straight as an arrow. Need a specific BB drop? Absolutely, +/- 10mm should be fine. As an introductory offer, my first 10 customers will also get custom rear spacing which will ensure their own dish on a wheel - yours will be unique, no two the same. I'll also throw in a 10% off voucher to present to a qualified mechanic at your LBS to correct my mistakes (1st hour of work only - not responsible for replacing files if welds get in the way of shimano/sram/campagnolo cassettes)

*** Future custom frame buyers ***

Please read all 300+ previous posts. There are reasons custom frames cost so much. I doesn't have to be this way!


----------



## SystemShock

locominute said:


> pretty close..but the chain doesn't hit..
> 
> Tomstork is right... some of you guys are really upset over this...could you be really working for Pride's competition?
> or are you guys truly so warmly supportive?


Tsk. Sounds like Stockholm Syndrome™ to me. 

Loco, I'm glad you're willing to overlook the obvious flaws and things you explicitly specified that they either didn't do, or did wrong. But such obvious misses shouldn't have happened... $1200 is significant money, after all.

And isn't the name of the company 'PRIDE', after all? :idea:

If it were me, I'd have sent the frame back. But if you can live with the mess-ups, have at it.

For myself, Pride just seems a little too drama-filled a route for me to take.
.


----------



## SystemShock

18usc371 said:


> I'm starting my own custom frame shop. I will work in steel and Ti only. Totally custom, nothing off the rack. Send me your measurements and your dream design, and of course, full payment. I will make whatever I want.
> 
> You want a sloping top tube - no problem, wait until the frame arrives and we'll see what I decided to do!
> 
> Bent chain stays, no problem, I'll make them straight as an arrow.
> 
> Need a specific BB drop? Absolutely, +/- 10mm should be fine.
> 
> As an introductory offer, my first 10 customers will also get custom rear spacing which will ensure their own dish on a wheel - yours will be unique, no two the same.
> 
> I'll also throw in a 10% off voucher to present to a qualified mechanic at your LBS to correct my mistakes (1st hour of work only - not responsible for replacing files if welds get in the way of shimano/sram/campagnolo cassettes)



LOL. Post of the Week™. :lol:
.


----------



## T K

SystemShock said:


> LOL. Post of the Week™. :lol:
> .


+1!!!!!!!!!!:lol:


----------



## 18usc371

Awwwww - thanks guys!

For you, I no chase BB threads.


----------



## MR_GRUMPY

After reading this entire mess, it made me wonder why people would throw their money at a builder who's bikes you have never seen on the road. The last time I bought a frame, I was thinking of some builders who I had never seen any bikes from. After slapping myself, I decided to go with a semi-local ace, and had my shop order a Gunnar. They're made by the Waterford people, who have been doing this for a long, long time. 
I'm sure that there are cases where somebody's Waterford was screwed up, but I can't see Waterford not jumping on the problem right away. Once you start screwing up, word gets out quick. Pretty soon, the only people buying bikes from you, are people who don't know any better.


----------



## ColoRoadie

I have to wonder about the spacers on the crank. Wouldn't that mess with your knees on long rides? Have you rode it long distance yet loco?


----------



## PlatyPius

locominute said:


> pretty close..but the chain doesn't hit..
> 
> Tomstork is right... some of you guys are really upset over this...could you be really working for Pride's competition?
> or are you guys truly so warmly supportive?


Well, we COULD be all "It's so awesome! At least it's almost right!" but then we'd be Bicycling magazine....


----------



## locominute

about 25miles... no problem.. I like a wider q factor than most people...
normally I ride with extra long speedplays anyway.

but decided to return the frame..the thought of 3.5mm less non drive crank arm clamp kind of bothers me...
I like the lower 75mm drop... which makes me want even lower bb at 80mm

t too bad as it is a blast getting out of the saddle and stomping.


----------



## bike_guy

All I know is if I'm going to "deal with" a less than perfect frame it better be free. No way I'm paying for something and it not be right.


----------



## SystemShock

locominute said:


> about 25miles... no problem.. I like a wider q factor than most people...
> normally I ride with extra long speedplays anyway.
> 
> but decided to return the frame..the thought of 3.5mm less non drive crank arm clamp kind of bothers me...
> I like the lower 75mm drop... which makes me want even lower bb at 80mm
> 
> t too bad as it is a blast getting out of the saddle and stomping.



Sorry to hear it Loco... but for the $$$ you were spending, you did deserve it done right.
.


----------



## gibson00

18usc371 said:


> Awwwww - thanks guys!
> 
> For you, I no chase BB threads.


Lol.....good morning laugh. 

Loco - I'm on the east coast of Canada, I am not a frame builder. Frankly, I don't think 'Pride' is much of a threat/competition to any other real frame builders.
Anyway, hope your return goes smoothly.
Cheers


----------



## chasea

Wow. My frame came back from the painter with less-than-stellar paint (not the frame builder's fault) and my frame builder sent it back to be repainted at his expense. He wasn't going to put me on a bike that I did not absolutely love. 

What's the point? The point is that you are buying the builder, not the bike. I'm glad this thread is here. I'd never heard of Pride before, but now that I have, I assure you, I won't ever be considering a purchase. I'll also advise against anyone who is thinking of buying a Pride bicycle. It sounds like the builder has too much pride (see what I did there?) to admit fault and do the right thing. 

No matter how good of a deal this seemed to be, it turned out to be more hassle than it was worth. And Pride, through their actions, has brought about more negative attention than anything. It would've been a better business decision to just accept the frame back and refund the money or build it right at their cost.

The average satisfied customer (for any business) tells two people about their buying experience. The average upset customer tells 7 people.


----------



## locominute

hmm seatstays turned out to be 3/4" too long... sounds like it will need a rebuild.
at least the rear triangle.


----------



## SystemShock

locominute said:


> hmm seatstays turned out to be 3/4" too long... sounds like it will need a rebuild.
> at least the rear triangle.


How the eff did they get so many things wrong on the same build?.


----------



## ColoRoadie

locominute said:


> hmm seatstays turned out to be 3/4" too long... sounds like it will need a rebuild.
> at least the rear triangle.


Have them start from scratch, and build it the way you ordered it.


----------



## T K

ColoRoadie said:


> Have them start from scratch, and build it the way you ordered it.


Or send your money back.


----------



## SystemShock

Y'know, it is kinda fun walking through the smoldering aftermath of this thread.

.


----------



## Waves77

T K said:


> Or send your money back.


+1

At this point anything else would be insane.


----------



## locominute

getting a new rear triangle..


----------



## T K

locominute said:


> getting it in the rear..


Fixed it for ya.


----------



## ColoRoadie

locominute said:


> getting a new rear triangle..


Will that fix the BB drop as well?


----------



## PlatyPius

locominute said:


> getting a new rear triangle..


At what point do you say "Give me my damn money back?" You must feel that you are doing penance for some transgressions in your life to keep accepting this.


----------



## Hank Stamper

I think you guys might be getting played here. It's just too absurd to believe.


----------



## SystemShock

Hank Stamper said:


> I think you guys might be getting played here. It's just too absurd to believe.


If it was just one guy, maybe. But more than one person has reported probs with Pride recently.
.


----------



## gearguywb

Hank Stamper said:


> I think you guys might be getting played here. It's just too absurd to believe.


You are right, you couldn't make this up though. The pics don't lie either.


----------



## chasea

locominute said:


> Hey TK sounds like you have some experience with custom builders? no? yes?
> 
> 
> I think if you start looking this experience is certainly not unique to Pride. Didn't you see the one about the guy whose BB was ovalized?
> Or the other guy who waited 1.5 years for his frame....etc etc
> In the end it was 4.5 months from deposit to frame.
> 
> Yes there was some headaches and wait time... but again I wasn't in a hurry.
> I am also quite certain it was a learning experience for Pride.
> 
> Maybe I should start a new thread..". bad custom build experience"



:mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: 
I'm sorry, but this is total BS. There are any number of builders who wouldn't do this to a customer. This is NOT in any way indicative of most peoples' custom experiences. 

Also- and this is not a judgement against you, as I don't know you- but you opted to spend less money on a builder with little-to-no reputation and were expecting a dream bike. *It. Just. Doesn't. Work. That. Way.* Shop around. Look at builders with years of experience. Look at their prices. You're paying a designer for his time- and that includes doing the less skill-intensive aspects of building a bike as well. You pay him what his time is worth. If his bikes seem cheap, there is a reason for it. Maybe they have a day job to pay bills. Or maybe they don't have enough experience and you're funding their education. Either way, you have to ride the end result. 

You payed less and went with a builder you didn't know, who was also not local to you. I'm not saying you got what you deserved- as its his business and he decides what his product is worth- but there were enough red flags here for you to have found a more reputable frame builder or one closer to you (so you could breathe down his neck if needed). 

This is not in any way indicative of the custom buying experience. Most custom buyers have realistic expectations (which are met or exceeded) because they've done their homework! You're buying the builder, not the bike. I think you should get rid of that frame. It thinks you're a chump.

The only other possibility is that the geometry you want/ think you need would yield a bike that rode terribly. If this were the case, he should have told you so before agreeing to do the job. One of you is definitely wrong here. It is quite possible that you are both wrong. My advice is that you should stick with stock frames until you know what you're doing.


----------



## chasea

"This guy ripped me off"> "The measurements are off but I love the bike. This is the best frame ever."> "I'm sending it back for the umpteenth time. I said I loved it, but its not what I asked for." 

Stick with this builder. The two of you obviously have a working relationship. And I can't think of another builder who deserves to put up with you.


----------



## rx-79g

I don't think there is anything wrong with giving a new guy a shot, or buying something on the cheap. And there's nothing wrong with having more limited expectations than when you spend the big money with a big name.

Limited expectations should be about aesthetics, not geometry or structual integrity. If the complaints were bad paint, messy decals, slightly blobby welds, file marks, etc I'd understand liking the bike. But this bike is neither the right shape nor are the welds likely to stand up to much abuse. It is bordering on being a non-bike. That's not worth any discount.


----------



## chasea

Its not about being cheap. Its about knowing what you're getting yourself into. Why are some bikes more expensive than others? Why do some builders charge more for their time? The answer doesn't really matter. But there has to at least be an answer. Buying blindly from a guy with no reputation because of price is stupidity.


----------



## rx-79g

chasea said:


> Its not about being cheap. Its about knowing what you're getting yourself into. Why are some bikes more expensive than others? Why do some builders charge more for their time? The answer doesn't really matter. But there has to at least be an answer. Buying blindly from a guy with no reputation because of price is stupidity.


Dude, people do this all the time. Walk into a bike shop full of one year old brands like Focus and tell me that consumers don't pin their hopes on products that lack reputation. And thank God for that, because otherwise we wouldn't have a Ti industry at all, or companies like Trek, Cervelo and Parlee. The first buyers of Litespeeds and Merlins were acting on faith and the excitement of something novel.

Pride could be a good company. They obviously have the equipment, supplies and basic skillset to make a titanium bicycle. But I think their "getting the name out there" pricing causes them to rush builds to the point that they produce and send out junk. But a little less desperation and a little more care could make for a pretty decent business niche. All a bargain builder needs to do is have an okay reputation and they will have a waiting list. 

Further, I would submit that nearly all pricing is totally artificial. Serottas don't cost more than other brands because they work harder. Serotta has mastered the art of pricing yourself to create your brand cache.

Pride has managed to make nearly every mistake a new company could in their attempt to start a business. They've priced themselves like Chinese imports, are bad at communication, have poor QC and don't even sweat the aesthetics. Their business plan is as bad as the products. They would do better to wrap it up and start over as a different company, hopefully with a different idea about how to get things done.


----------



## giantdefy2

motloc said:


> I haven't had the heart to build up the bike yet. It looks pretty nice, but there are several things different from what I specified: It's got a sloping top tube (I specified horizontal); it has a replaceable der. hanger (I specified non-replaceable), and the BB shell is very, very thin (I asked them to use the thickest one that Paragon makes). Those things are significant or insignificant, depending on your point of view. There are metal shavings remaining in the seat tube. The HT and BB look faced, etc., but I can't say for sure. I have no idea if it's alligned correctly or not; what axle-to-crown length the frame is built for, etc.
> 
> That said, the welds look good and the frame looks pretty nice. I honestly think that if Pride perfected their customer service and paid attention to the customers' requests (or just stopped building custom), improved QC, they'd build nice bikes. I'll post some pics tonight. It's just that I have been hesitant to spend the time and money building it up. I will do so eventually I think, but right now I'm riding old faithful (a 1999 Litespeed Classic) and waiting until the team gets the new CAAD10s for my race bike.



Motloc - still curious on what the frame looks like, should post pics! Like to see what this lousy company has sent you. I personally would be pissed and would sell the frame, Id hate riding it just because of their crappy customer service. No one on this forum should buy from them. The should rename themselves to "No-Pride".


----------



## locominute

turns out front triangle was built wrong..
after building the bike up a second time, I test rode the bike but it felt weird still.
Measured the actual top tube which turned was supposed to be 51.7cm ...with virtual of 53.5cm
instead somebody mitered the top tube 53.5cm instead...resulting in a top tube of about 55.5 or so
. called Dave and sent the frame back to him in January ---he acknowledged there was a mistake and that he would refund my $600 deposit. February 1st or so.
still waiting..

so yes Pride Cycles... HORRIBLE EXPERIENCE
live and learn.


----------



## Waves77

Man, that sucks. How did you pay for the deposit?


----------



## locominute

credit card...but still having hard time getting deposit back. 

last week
Pam sent email about just having me purchase the frame for $600 instead.....I answered "no" and the reason why.
no word since.


----------



## T K

You have given them every chance, way more than most. This sucks. I hope they go under. After you get your money back of course. What a joke!


----------



## JustTooBig

HOLY S**T ...... the drama continues??

You have infinitely more patience and understanding than I do, Loco. I am fairly certain I'd have committed a felony by now.


----------



## Kuma601

Incredible it is beyond family oriented language how badly this shop "messes" up.
Do others a favor and write a Yelp review as well.


----------



## locominute

here is the original blue print...

note the top tube measurements are next to each other...
the mitering guy must have misread the specs.


----------



## ColoRoadie

Pride. Could they have possibly chosen a more inappropriate name for their company? What a joke. I'm really sorry for those who got soaked by these guys. As was said earlier...I would have gone postal by now.


----------



## Cinelli 82220

locominute said:


> credit card...but still having hard time getting deposit back.....
> Pam sent email about just having me purchase the frame for $600 instead.


Did she want to you to keep the buggered up frame? Or have you pay $600 for it after it was adjusted?
Considering the questionable craftsmanship, it can't be good to have them taking apart frames and re-welding them in repeated attempts to get them "right". 
Also, maybe make a complaint to your credit card company. If Pride aren't willing to give you a refund maybe they are having cashflow problems. It would be sad if they went bust and left a bunch of people without frames or their money.


----------



## locominute

they want to keep the $600 deposit and send back the frame as is to me
. .. so I guess it would be half price for an ill fitting road frame.

I had not paid in full at least ($1250+ ) ..


----------



## gpcyclist25

locominute said:


> they want to keep the $600 deposit and send back the frame as is to me
> . .. so I guess it would be half price for an ill fitting road frame.
> 
> I had not paid in full at least ($1250+ ) ..


It begs the question as to whether they know anything about bicycles or are just a fab shop that thought this would be a good and easy business line.


----------



## JustTooBig

locominute said:


> *they want to *... keep the $600 deposit and send back the frame as is to me
> . .. so I guess it would be half price for an ill fitting road frame.
> 
> I had not paid in full at least ($1250+ ) ..


buddy, you've been playing this damned game with them based on what THEY want to do for entirely too long. What they want is irrelevent. The only question that's worth addressing is ... what do you want? If you're tired of the repeated f**kups and disgraceful way of doing 'business' that has been on display by these yahoos, tell them what you want. A total refund? Yeah, you've earned it. But you'll have to DEMAND it .... they've been pushing you around for entirely too long. 

Please, PLEASE stop bending over for them. Don't send the message that they can get away with screwing over customers this way....


----------



## 92gli

gpcyclist25 said:


> It begs the question as to whether they know anything about bicycles or are just a fab shop that thought this would be a good and easy business line.


Has to be option #2. Anyone that knows bikes would know how to correctly place dropouts and brake bosses.


----------



## bigzebra

I have read most of the thread and would like to share my experience with Pride Cycles. 

Last year, I contacted Pride relative to a semi-custom frame. They emailed my a drawing based on my measurements and I had given them a deposit with specific instructions to NOT build the frame until I had gotten back with them as I wanted someone to review the specs with me. It took a few weeks, but the individual that took a look at the specs said the measurements were WAY off from what I needed. In fact, they commented that the people at Pride appeared to have no idea how to construct a frame to even somewhat normal (i.e. industry standard) geometry. 

I thought I'd still give Pride the benefit of the doubt, so I called them with the recommended geometry in hand. They said they literally just finished welding up the frame! Even after specific instructions for them not to. The guy at Pride advised that they would have to find a buyer for the (incorrect) frame they had made for me before they would think about making the correct frame. 

I ended up disputing the transaction with my credit card company and received a refund from them. 

I have since purchased an off-the-shelf Lynskey Cooper, and have been VERY happy with it.


----------



## bigzebra

Oops, double post.


----------



## Mike Overly

Website written by a 5th-grader should also be a warning. "Small" production not because they take "pride" in their work, but because they're really just winging the whole thing.


----------



## bike_guy

bigzebra said:


> I have read most of the thread and would like to share my experience with Pride Cycles.
> 
> Last year, I contacted Pride relative to a semi-custom frame. They emailed my a drawing based on my measurements and I had given them a deposit with specific instructions to NOT build the frame until I had gotten back with them as I wanted someone to review the specs with me. It took a few weeks, but the individual that took a look at the specs said the measurements were WAY off from what I needed. In fact, they commented that the people at Pride appeared to have no idea how to construct a frame to even somewhat normal (i.e. industry standard) geometry.
> 
> I thought I'd still give Pride the benefit of the doubt, so I called them with the recommended geometry in hand. They said they literally just finished welding up the frame! Even after specific instructions for them not to. The guy at Pride advised that they would have to find a buyer for the (incorrect) frame they had made for me before they would think about making the correct frame.
> 
> I ended up disputing the transaction with my credit card company and received a refund from them.
> 
> I have since purchased an off-the-shelf Lynskey Cooper, and have been VERY happy with it.


I thought most custom builders didn't ask for a deposit until you signed off on the build specs? That is how it was with my custom frame.


----------



## locominute

last week spoke wth Dave who said his wife had handled things ...still no refund... and they still have the frame.

Maybe they are trying to find a buyer who will fit on the front triangle.. then I 'll get my money back.


----------



## gpcyclist25

The evidence seems to suggest that Pride is a business with serious cash flow problems. It would explain some of the more desperate and unfriendly business practices discussed above, suggesting problems with paying suppliers, maintaining credit, etc. Not good signs.


----------



## locominute

that is what I am afraid of.


----------



## gpcyclist25

locominute said:


> that is what I am afraid of.


Yes, unfortunately having managed a company in similar straits, I recognize the symptoms. That said, you typically try to segregate your "tougher" behavior to suppliers, and keep customer service at a high level, or else you are completely done. You hope that the customer side picks up, which fixes your supplier side. It sounds like Pride is having serious difficulty getting supplied on decent terms, which explains why they are so difficult on refunds, etc., because they're out the cost of the tubing and probably can't recover it.

That said, if they had simply made the product correctly, we wouldn't be having this conversation.


----------



## b4wyo

*Another horrible customer experience with Pride Cycles*

Sorry to have to re-open this old thread, but my current experience is so similar that I couldn't let it go. And yes, I joined just to post this. I wish I had checked for reviews before doing business with Pride Cycles. I have one slight difference in that I sent another brand frame to Pride for repair, but like the others I can't seem to get it back. Here's my story: I bought a vintage Titan titanium micro-mini bmx bike on Craigslist that was advertised as 'perfect condition'. Unfortunately, upon receipt and removal of the padset found a broken top-tube that had previously been re-welded, and the repair was also cracked. I googled titanium bicycle repair and got Pride. They were very responsive, answering email within 24 hours as we came up with a repair plan that included rewelding the crack, and bead blasting a new finish on the frame. Coincidentally, I shipped the frame/fork to them 4/11/2011 (the day after the last post on this thread). 

I called a couple times toward the end of April, but got no answer. He emailed me on 5/2 to call him back, he said that they had been shutdown by severe weather (plausible, given news headlines).

I know this is long, but here are transcript of their communication/excuses.

To: pridecycles
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 7:24:23 PM
Subject: RE: titan
just curious if you have had a chance to work on the titan mini yet, let me know how it goes


Pride reply 5/18: Welded up will ship Friday Sorry to take so long Storms have kept us without power alot.

Pride reply 5/23: Brandon TITAN is ready to come home call me to make shipping / payment arrangements

I called and gave CC#, he charged my card on 5/25 for agreed upon repair amount plus shipping.

To: pridecycles
Sent: Friday, June 3, 2011 3:57:56 PM
Subject: RE: titan
David,
I haven't seen the bike yet and wonder if you could provide a tracking number.
thanks,

reply: 6/6
Brandon our blaster has been down and your frame has not shipped I will get it out and send tracking # sorry I thought you had been notified
David/Pam Atkins


To: pridecycles
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 8:19:33 AM
David,
Any ETA on this yet?

- no reply- 


To: pridecycles
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 5:34:38 PM
Subject: Titan
David,
Just following up again on the status of the Titan micro-mini. Any luck getting it blasted?

reply 6/30
Finally Will ship Friday SORRY fot the delay

David/Pam Atkins 

PRIDE CYCLES 
8701 Dayton Pike 
Suite 110 
Soddy Daisy, TN 37379 

- no bike - 

To: pridecycles
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 09:25:24 AM
Subject: RE: titan
Could you please send me a tracking number?

- no reply -

Since July 8, I have been calling several times daily. I have left several voice messages, no reply.

To: pridecycles
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 11:32:55 AM
Subject: RE: titan
Still haven't seen my bike, can you please send a tracking number. You charged my credit card 7 weeks ago for the repair, it's been almost two months since the first time you said it was shipping, and two weeks since the last time you said it was shipping. I've been trying to get ahold of you via phone message and email with no response. I’m starting to get irritated. Please call me back within the hour at (xxx)-

- no reply- 

Since July 13, the answering machine is no longer picking up, I only get a fax tone, so I've sent a fax request as well.

Thanks for all your information in the prior posts. I will dispute the charge on my credit card, but that won't help get my frame back. I'll post a BBB review. I'll also call Reed at Soddy Daisy police and see how that goes.


----------



## Waves77

Holy crap how these guys are still in business is beyond me...


----------



## locominute

my response was that the welder quit... but they got a new welder and she is the best Dave has seen in 20 years of business..
it has been a month... still waiting.


----------



## 18usc371

With all these delays, mis-sizing, non-custom custom specs, cheap prices, etc, you wonder if they're actually building at their shop, or just ordering take-out from the local Chinese restaurant . . . I mean builder. Does XCAD use MSG?


----------



## krisdrum

18usc371 said:


> With all these delays, mis-sizing, non-custom custom specs, cheap prices, etc, you wonder if they're actually building at their shop, or just ordering take-out from the local Chinese restaurant . . . I mean builder. Does XCAD use MSG?


From the look and sound of it the Chinese are making Pride look like fools. I'd buy one of their frames way before tangling with Pride.


----------



## 18usc371

krisdrum said:


> From the look and sound of it the Chinese are making Pride look like fools. I'd buy one of their frames way before tangling with Pride.


I would too. I'm not knocking XCAD or Asian companies. They seem fine. Im just giving an alternate theory of fraud.


----------



## AegisRider

*I have a Pride*

It's a mountain bike, and it was one of the first ones they built. My frame is one of the ones on their website. I have had no problems with it in 2+ years of hard riding.

After reading this thread (a month or so ago) I got nervous about it. As a result, I had my cousin (a professional welder and non-professional MOOTS rider) check out the welds on my bike. 

I'm happy to report that all the welds passed with flying colors, and my cousin was very impressed with both quality and appearance.
---I hope this at least serves as evidence that they didn't INTEND to get into poor business practices---

I'm really sad that the company seems to be doing so poorly, and I'm REALLY sad that they are ripping people off and lying to people. 

So much for my lifetime warranty. So much for me having any PRIDE in the label on my bike, or the company that stands behind it.

I sincerely hope they can turn things around and make great bikes like mine for other people--but I won't be sending them any business until they get their act together.


----------



## T K

Waves77 said:


> Holy crap how these guys are still in business is beyond me...


Sounds like they're not. I would get the local PD to do a drive by to see if the building is now vaccant.


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## Smurphy

I live a few miles away from Pride Cycles' store-front.

Pride Cycles' been closed, every time I've ridden (slowly) by.
Why?
It's only a little out of the way, on one of my daily riding routes...
I'm friendly/curious and just felt like stopping by to say, "hi"... which never happened.

The last time I rode by the place, (last Thursday on July 28, 2011) the door was clean:
all the 'phone numbers and hours of operation and the like
were gone.


No vacation signs.

No redirect to any new location.

I looked up their website and the content that I remember was there is no longer there.


Sorry, everyone. This looks as bad as you thought it was.

----

I stumbled on this thread via a Google search and signed up
here specifically to respond/contribute to this thread.


Good luck;
ride safely.
Sincerely,

Steve


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