# Lemond Full Carbon...?



## no-1 (Feb 24, 2005)

just something to talk about.
any thoughts on this matter?


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## Allez Rouge (Jan 1, 1970)

no-1 said:


> and spline Al/Carbon frames...not Steel/Carbon.


Does this mean the steel/carbon Spine Design frames will be replaced by aluminum/carbon? Or that they'll offer both combos?

(Interesting to me because I just bought a leftover 2005 steel/carbon Buenos Aires.)


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## pjr (Mar 10, 2006)

So I take it thats the end of the all steel frames and the steel carbon. So who dose that leave for steel bikes. As you can tell I'm a steel lover and I am scared. I just bought a Sarthe and will buy an other before the go the way of the Yugo.


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## DePeeWee (Feb 19, 2006)

I just bought a Sarthe, too (BTW - I love it). But I don't think there's a need to be afraid of steel going away - though we'll probably have to pay more b/c it'll be custom-ish. Many big names still make steel (Colnago, Bianchi, etc), as well as almost all custom makers.


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## no-1 (Feb 24, 2005)

So, no there won't be anymore steel/carbon spline...aluminum/carbon spline will replace it... 
although no more campy on Lemonds. 
( last years Sarth were the last ones to have campy components..so sad.) 
haven't been able to find it on the web yet. sorry.
more to come


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## pjr (Mar 10, 2006)

Thanks for clearing that up for us. I'm still sceptical of this revamp though. The shop I work at has recieved no such info of this.


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## Allez Rouge (Jan 1, 1970)

no-1 said:


> although no more campy on Lemonds.
> ( last years Sarth were the last ones to have campy components..so sad.)


Same story for the Buenos Aires. I was disappointed to see the 2006 Sarthe and BA are wearing Shimano, and luckily was able to find an unsold 2005 Buenos Aires in my size. (Although I must say: while I really like the Creamsicle orange of the 2005 Sarthe, I'm not sure I at all like the same color on the 2006 BA, so I'm glad I was able to find the yellow 2005 variant).

Would it be safe to assume the Campy bits were dropped because buyers in the Sarthe/BA price range simply weren't interested? I was told that there was another fellow who was seriously interested in the bike I bought, but he wanted the Campy parts switched out to Shimano.


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## no-1 (Feb 24, 2005)

*so more info....*

i loved my 2004 Zurich.... So Al/carbon makes more sense, to me. 
Also i heard the spline technology cost a lot to produce....
...just thought this would be a fun/interesting topic to talk about.
hope everyone is riding...spring is in the air.
enjoy


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## split (Mar 22, 2004)

*Lemond Triomphe Pictures*

From cyclingnews.com...link


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## Evan Evans (Sep 14, 2004)

I saw the bike at the top of Brasstown bald Saturday. Lemond was there & i got him to autograph my hat! After the stage Lemond made a quick getaway by riding the new bike down the mountain without pedals.


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## AFS (Sep 15, 2004)

What were your impressions of the tube shapes, geometry and overall build quality? The bottom bracket and asymmetric chain stays look interesting per the cyclingnews.com article.


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## Evan Evans (Sep 14, 2004)

Just another odd shaped tubed bike. That's the current thing to promote. Once the masses have those there will be some other gimmick. Like disk brakes.


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## Peith (Feb 16, 2006)

You work at the shop and you don't know?

Trek has had that 5000 from taiwan for a little while. The made in usa signifies that it hit the spray shop in wisconsin before it was packaged for assembly.

I like to think of the Triomphe as the compact frame for madones. That tri/tt bike your talking about is the dualzone design they've been talking about for a little while. Its a lightweight tri bike that has some strips on the front tubes for the same reasons that golf balls and zipp wheels have dimpels.


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## Magnuson (Apr 25, 2006)

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/apr06/georgia06/?id=/tech/2006/features/lemond_triomphe


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## yamaha_mike (Sep 8, 2003)

Woohoo! I was wondering when Lemond would offer a cool bike again.

I just built up a steel Lemond Zurich and really find it comfortable with great geometry for descents and cross winds. Never had an interest in the spine design as it seemed half baked.

Lemond is an american hero and it's cool Trek knows this. Can't wait for a test ride!! Hopefully it's as sweet a ride as my steel while offering a 3lb instant diet.


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## pjr (Mar 10, 2006)

I hate to say this...
But dosen't that bike resemble the BMC pro machine.


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## chrislh (Oct 2, 2005)

forget Lemond, he talked junk about lance;the poster boy for american cycling. I would never buy a Lemond bike. I would however ride one if i was sponsored. Just go buy a trek, it is the same company but as long as greg doesn't make any money i'm happy with it.


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## 4bykn (Jan 28, 2001)

Forget Greg??? Never. He was the "poster boy" for American long before that guy from Texas hit the scene. And (in my opinion) has much more class than the other guy will ever have.


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## djg714 (Oct 24, 2005)

chrislh said:


> forget Lemond, he talked junk about lance;the poster boy for american cycling. I would never buy a Lemond bike. I would however ride one if i was sponsored. Just go buy a trek, it is the same company but as long as greg doesn't make any money i'm happy with it.



Greg's the man brother. I got 2 Lemonds and they kick butt. Lance is and was a farce...


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## yamaha_mike (Sep 8, 2003)

pjr said:


> I hate to say this...
> But dosen't that bike resemble the BMC pro machine.


I don't see the physical resemblance?? 

And the review I read of the BMC made it sound like a edgy pro bike, rather than an all-day-smooth bike that Lemond geometry would offer.


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## stihl (Oct 27, 2005)

I just hope that they come up with a better paint job.

Those seatstays look hot.


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## Evan Evans (Sep 14, 2004)

I agree. Lemond bikes have always had sort of un-inspired paint designs. The colors are somewhat blaaaa. One exception was the last yellow team saturn bikes. They were awsome!


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## powerdan5 (Apr 27, 2006)

*LeMond Paint*

I do agree the LeMonds lack the splash their sister company Klein has. Couldn't they combine Klein's art, Trek's ad power, and a little more than the LeMond name? 

Another exception is a bike I bought from a TIAA CREF rider when LeMond sponsored the team in 2004 (even though based on the LeMond website, they are still using the TIAA CREF photos for their advertising).


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## tballgame87 (May 15, 2005)

Here is my beautiful Lemond Maillot Jaune, I've yet to see another rider with one on the roads. The steel carbon is a great combo for the mountains I find. The stiffness of the steel in the bottom portion of the bike allows for better power transfer up those 9 mile climbs I do in Western North Carolina when I'm not going to class or sitting on my ass.










I have made some upgrades to her, (her name is LOLA)....yes i named my bike and i'm proud of it. I'll post the new pictures up shortly as soon as I take them.


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## 4bykn (Jan 28, 2001)

tballgame87 said:


> Here is my beautiful Lemond Maillot Jaune, I've yet to see another rider with one on the roads. The steel carbon is a great combo for the mountains I find. The stiffness of the steel in the bottom portion of the bike allows for better power transfer up those 9 mile climbs I do in Western North Carolina when I'm not going to class or sitting on my ass.


Gorgeous bike, beautiful. 

Western NC? I spent spring break there, in a cabin near hayesville. Wished I'd had my bike with. Some nice roads there.


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## Allez Rouge (Jan 1, 1970)

Cool bike, TBall. I bought a 2005 Buenos Aires two months ago (stock photo) ...
View attachment 53011

... and just absolutely love the ride of the "spine" frame. My other bike ('92 Specialized Allez) is steel, and while it rides great, the steel/carbon combo is just all that much better. So far I've not done any upgrades other than to bolt on my favorite saddle, and switch to a 13-29 cassette (I'm old/overweight/slow). I plan to eventually upgrade everything to Chorus and move the Centaur/Veloce bits to my Allez.

I chose the bike in part because one of my riding buddies has a 2004 Zurich with the same frame. Over the years he's ridden just about every frame material there is, and told me that so far his Zurich is the best of the bunch.

And yeah, it IS nice to be able to go for a ride and not see countless other riders on the same bike you're on ...


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## tballgame87 (May 15, 2005)

Yep, the mountains of Western North Carolina. I attend Western Carolina University, and i head up the bike club/cycling team there, I am by no means the best rider, Just the one with the most initiative. It is a great place, I love riding there, the mountains always make your legs burn, but then all those guys in Florida....what do they have? I've done plenty of upgrades to my bike, white bar tape, white fizik arione saddle, fsa cranks, ultegra rear derailleur, bontrager race wheels, continental 4000gp tires, easton ec90 equipe carbon bars :-D. Over the course of a 10 week summer, working for my bike shop I actually came out of the summer, with all my nice upgrades, and owed them a couple hundred more than I made, so in turn, I spent every dime i made from them, with them!!!! Crazy how that works, and Now i'm in the process of trying ot get my hands on a mountain bike so I can go riding out in Utah with a group of friends for spring break. What a sport, what a sport, i'd be fat, ugly, and sitting on a couch if it weren't for Lance Armstrong and his little bicycle that could.


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## Stogaguy (Feb 11, 2006)

*Defending Greg*



chrislh said:


> forget Lemond, he talked junk about lance;the poster boy for american cycling. I would never buy a Lemond bike. I would however ride one if i was sponsored. Just go buy a trek, it is the same company but as long as greg doesn't make any money i'm happy with it.


Chrislh, I find your assertions both offensive and misinformed. While you are certainly entitled to your opinions, I respectfully disagree:

First, while Trek may be Lemond’s parent company, there are substantial differences in the geometry between the two brands. Therefore, there are objective reasons to choose one over the other.

Second, I find your dissing of Greg distasteful. While he may have made some comments about Lance that were less than diplomatic, this does not erase his own status as one of the greatest riders of all time. His career did a lot to put our sport on the map in the US. Please give him the respect he deserves.


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## no-1 (Feb 24, 2005)

*my ol' zurich*

I loved this bike...


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## santabarbara (Nov 27, 2004)

no-1, nice zurich. my wife has been riding her zurich, and she absolutely loves it. i ride a seven axiom sg, and even after riding this, i find the zurich a very nice ride.


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## Indyfan (Mar 30, 2004)

*Lemond bikes*

I asked our Trek outside rep about it. He only gave some limited info (big surprise). He said the all steel bikes will be in the line-up for now. He aluded to the new all carbon, monocoque bikes taking a big share of the catalog - from the top down. He didn't seem to have an answer about the TI Lemonds. I talked to our manager about this, and the last couple of annual line-ups of Lamond bikes. He echoed what I've heard from customers, here on Roadbike Review, other shops, as well as what I've been thinking. They done't seem to be looking at what people look to them for - quality, reasonably priced, American-made steel and TI bikes. They have a different geometry from the other bike makers offering steel (obviously aside from custom). For good or ill, they're backed by one of the largest MFR's in the US - TREK, which have successful designs which differ greatly from Lemond's. Lemond (TREK) needs to keep the customers (shops and end-users alike) loyal by keeping the classic steel and (completely) TI frames (although discontinued a few years ago), even when they do something good like the new carbon models. Their move back to AL was a mistake in my (and many others') estimation. I'll leave the spine bikes out of it (although I actually like them).

As for Greg and Lance, they;ve both been top-level racers with egos to match. If we thought about the names associated with products, Mitsubishi and Mercedes cars and trucks would have never been imported to the US after WW2 (among many other similar products/brand names). Let the products be what you buy. Besides, neither Greg nor Lance need any of the money from the bikes they're associated with.

Bob


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## WhiskeyNovember (May 31, 2003)

Indyfan said:


> Lemond (TREK) needs to keep the customers (shops and end-users alike) loyal by keeping the classic steel and (completely) TI frames (although discontinued a few years ago), even when they do something good like the new carbon models.


<i>Nobody</i> knows better than Trek (and Lemond product managers) what sells. If something doesn't sell, and the company would lose money by building it, doing so anyway would be a poor business decision. Remember, Trek (and Lemond) exist to <i>make money</i>...just like any other business based on profit.



Indyfan said:


> Their move back to AL was a mistake in my (and many others') estimation.
> Bob


Again, nobody knows better than Trek which of their products sell....and which ones <i>don't</i> sell....


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## 1234tuba (May 5, 2005)

Well, I dont think they know that aluminum spine bikes sell, but rather predict that they will. I agree that its a mistake. The all day ride characteristics of a lemond are, in my opinion, greatly enhanced by steel and ti, no aluminum.


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## AFS (Sep 15, 2004)

Indyfan, did the rep say when the new lineup of bikes will be in the bike shops?


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## Indyfan (Mar 30, 2004)

*Lemond bikes again*

The rep only said they would be out later this year. If I had to rely on it, I'd say they'll come out with the early '07 stuff. If we're lucky, they'll show up about the time they start shipping the '07 Poprads - late summer.

As for what Trek product managers, or most large brand product managers, it's more a matter of what they want to shove down our throats and mke us sell. It's what they want a market share of, not what is currently working. As an example, I give you Shimano's remarketing of rapid rise with their MTB "STI" shift/brake lever. It's not worth the trouble, and the thinking behind the shifting is completely flawed, even in a race situation. I know very few people who claim to really like it as much (NONE will say better) as the traditional rear derrailleur.

Bob


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## WhiskeyNovember (May 31, 2003)

Indyfan said:


> As for what Trek product managers, or most large brand product managers, it's more a matter of what they want to shove down our throats and mke us sell. It's what they want a market share of, not what is currently working. As an example, I give you Shimano's remarketing of rapid rise with their MTB "STI" shift/brake lever.


Bob, presenting this notion as fact is very, very irresponsible. For every example of product managers "shoving product down our throats", an example of product managers <i>responding to customer's desires</i> can be produced.

Bottom line....none of us are Trek product managers, so none of us can know for certain. 

For what it's worth, I base my theory (that the transition away from steel/carbon is based on sales and profitability...and not "shoving product down our throats") solely on my personal experiences and interactions with the product managers. Do I claim to know what they're thinking and planning? No, certainly not. I simply examine things differently than you, in that I do not search for evidence to support preconceived theories. 

Besides, if they wanted a market share of aluminum/carbon and non-lugged carbon frames, or if the steel/carbon frames were selling so well, it would be far more logical to develop <i>Klein</i> in that direction, and keep the '06 Lemond line relatively intact.


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## Indyfan (Mar 30, 2004)

*I stand corrected...*

There are product managers in some industries that react more to what the end user actually needs/wants, and not what is mostly motivated by the bottom line. It's been my experience (and would seem to be that of many people in shops I've had contact with) that it doesn't happen very much in this industry by the largest players. If I'm insulting you or a friend of yours who might be directly employed by one of these large MFR's, I'm sorry. I can't say I'm speaking from fact, just what I've seen, heard, and experinced.

It's all moot anyway. If anyone out there is buying something based solely on what they've read on a discussion forum on the internet, there are some serious flaws in their decision process. The advice I give everyone I sell a bike to is to buy the item (be it a tube or a $10k wonderbike) that function best for them regardless of the name on it, who does or doesn't use it, or what others might think about their decision. It's their bike experience anyway.

Bob


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## tballgame87 (May 15, 2005)

*check out the sexiest bike ever*

So my former boss (at the bike shop) recently made his annual trip up to Waterloo to check out what trek is offering. Among this year's announcements was of course the sexy new Lemond Triomphe. I got a new picture of the bike and, it has got me drueling like a dog staring at a stake on the dinner table. here it is, enjoy.


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## WhiskeyNovember (May 31, 2003)

Great paint scheme on that Triomphe. Reminds me of the old Breezer paint schemes...


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## torrefaction (Jun 25, 2006)

Nixing 10 out of 11 steel and steel/carbon models from the road line-up constitutes more than a "re-vamp." I agree with Bob above - this move on LeMond's part seems to favor profits (bike fashion fads, cheaper materials, mid-range parts) over consumer choice/satisfaction. Their ti-carbon spine bikes got some of the hottest reviews in the last several years. Why discontinue such a winning frame? A Lemond Zurich used to turn heads, and made any bike shop into a show room. Now the bike with that same name looks cookie-cutter, totally uninspiring, and cheap, although I'm sure it won't sell cheap. Yes, I'm a steel freak, but c'mon - looks like a tragic re-org for this once-reputable builder.


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## WhiskeyNovember (May 31, 2003)

torrefaction said:


> Why discontinue such a winning frame?


...Because doing so makes much more sense than continuing to dump resources into a frame platform that few people purchase.


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## torrefaction (Jun 25, 2006)

*exactly*



WhiskeyNovember said:


> ...Because doing so makes much more sense than continuing to dump resources into a frame platform that few people purchase.


Exactly my point. Bike design is driven by questions other than making a better bike. Of course it makes "much more sense", but it's too bad for cyclists, like me. Some companies manage to turn a profit *and* make sweet machines, as Lemond did until now. Personally, I think it makes good market sense to lose a few speculative bucks on a super hot "winning" model that reinforces a builder's reputation, to gain more bucks in corresponding sales of more cost-cutting, profit-churning models. How far can Lemond ride its remaining cred with generic carbon till people just buy a cheaper alternative? But what do I know, I'm just a hot head too balled up with the "soul" of cycling...


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## torrefaction (Jun 25, 2006)

*Lemond loses its way...*

indyfan - post below was more of a reply to you... I'm a forum rookie, accidentally forwarded comments to "whiskey november"

-cheers

Nixing 10 out of 11 steel and steel/carbon models from the road line-up constitutes more than a "re-vamp." I agree with Bob above - this move on LeMond's part seems to favor profits (bike fashion fads, cheaper materials, mid-range parts) over consumer choice/satisfaction. Their ti-carbon spine bikes got some of the hottest reviews in the last several years. Why discontinue such a winning frame? A Lemond Zurich used to turn heads, and made any bike shop into a show room. Now the bike with that same name looks cookie-cutter, totally uninspiring, and cheap, although I'm sure it won't sell cheap. Yes, I'm a steel freak, but c'mon - looks like a tragic re-org for this once-reputable builder.


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

WhiskeyNovember said:


> ...Because doing so makes much more sense than continuing to dump resources into a frame platform that few people purchase.


Exactly! Our shop is still sitting on some '04 steel/carbon Lemonds despite serious discounts. I don't care how great a "platform" it is (and it is, if relatively heavy in this "weight-weenie" age), nobody is buying.


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## Evan Evans (Sep 14, 2004)

For what it is worth the bike industry is all about fad & fashion. American car manufactures did the same thing in the 50's Along came the simple volkswagen to save the day. Now vw is our of business in the states. ...... I have know idea where i am going with this....


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