# Is 105 or Apex really needed?



## Hottody (Mar 31, 2012)

Considering my first road bike and it seems that every time I look at a road bike I feel like I must get a 105 or Apex setup as a minimum. My hope is that I will ride 20 to 60 miles a week to start. What are your thoughts on the topic?


----------



## DaveT (Feb 12, 2004)

Couple of things. I feel that 105 or Apex are both great entry-level components for someone that may have more than just a very casual interest in cycling and who is potentially going to become far more interested in bicycling from a personal as well as a fitness standpoint.

Cycling can really hook you, but you already at least suspect that from being on this forum. It's very easy to think about riding 20 to 60 miles a week to going for a 20 to 60 mile ride in a day! 

You may as well start with equipment that's going to give you pleasure, performance and bang for the buck (both 105 and Apex seem to do that very well) and as your experience and knowledge grow, you can start making informed decisions regarding upgrading to better stuff.

Buy whichever group, Shimano or SRAM, that feels best in your hands and seems to function the way you would like. Both are good with each brand having its supporters and detractors.


----------



## Hottody (Mar 31, 2012)

Good advice DaveC. I like both the SRAM and 105 groups! Now just trying to find the right bike. I like the Trek 2.3.


----------



## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Set your budget, including the other stuff you need to buy - helmet, shoes, shorts and jerseys (more than one each), tool kit, frame pump, floor pump, etc.

If that restricts you to a "Tiagra" level bike, or even a Sora bike, don't worry, both of those groups are perfectly functional and will give you years of use if maintained. Tiagra looks and shifts just like the other Shimano STI's and works perfectly. Sora shifts differently, but again is just fine if that's what you can afford.

Don't worry if you can't afford 105 or Apex, but if you can (along with the other stuff), go for it.


----------



## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

I would avoid Sora. Shimano finally updated Tiagra to 10 speed, so that wouldn't be a bad option if money is tight. The downside of Sora or older used bikes with <10 speed cassettes is if you ever want to upgrade or need to replace a part--you have to replace several parts to get it updated to 10 speed. Over time, 8 and 9 speed cassettes will be harder to find and only low quality parts will be available.


----------



## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I race a Tiagra bike. I don't feel like it's holding me back. My fitness, on the other hand... I think Tiagra and Apex are more parallel than 105 and Apex, but I don't know SRAM's groups that well.

Another of my bikes has 105, and Ultegra shifters. It's nicer, but ultimately that only matters when I shift. Since Tiagra still does the job, not hugely important.

I had a bike that fit badly, and had downtube shifters. (But well-tuned and indexed, so they worked fine.) Guess which part bothered me.

FWIW, I recently ordered a hyperglide model 6-speed freewheel. I wouldn't worry too much about finding 8- and 9-speed cassettes. If it comes up, you can take an 8-speed Shimano road bike to 10-speed by replacing the shifters, chain and cassette.


----------



## Hottody (Mar 31, 2012)

Good advice AmdrwSwitch. Thank you!


----------



## francoaa (Mar 19, 2008)

I too say go with what you can afford. I got back into biking 2yrs ago and got tiagra. I did not want the lower option since did not like how it shifted. And I knew I would want a better upgrade sooner than later. I will not need 105 until present eqpt. wears out.


----------



## the sarge (Jan 10, 2011)

i personally recommend the 105 or higher simply due to lever feel. i found that the tiagra's had week springs in them making the levers slide out of my grip while breaking. it is largely due to the way i grab them i would imagine, but the confidence was not there for me.


----------



## Scott in MD (Jun 24, 2008)

5700 105 is crazy good. It's unreal how good it is. If I were in charge of marketing at Shimano I would never again allow so much functional similarity between product linesas there was with 5700 105, 6700 Ultegra and 7900 DA. I think this is the reason for 11 speed on DA and electronic shifting on Ultegra ... to drive a little more differentiation. 

Does anyone else think 5700 105 is as good as 7800 DA? Does anyone know the weight difference?


----------



## eplanajr (May 11, 2009)

Scott in MD said:


> 5700 105 is crazy good. It's unreal how good it is. If I were in charge of marketing at Shimano I would never again allow so much functional similarity between product linesas there was with 5700 105, 6700 Ultegra and 7900 DA. I think this is the reason for 11 speed on DA and electronic shifting on Ultegra ... to drive a little more differentiation.
> 
> Does anyone else think 5700 105 is as good as 7800 DA? Does anyone know the weight difference?


While I think 105 is awesome stuff, to me it definitely is not as smooth shifting or feeling as Ultegra. Ultegra just has a better feel. It has been my personal experience that shifts are faster and smoother with the Ultegra stuff.

Although it probably wouldn't be enough of a change to justify swapping it out.


----------



## Andrew L (Apr 20, 2011)

I bought my first road bike last April, a 2011 Scott CR-1 Comp. It is almost full 105, came with a non group Shimano POS crank that started clicking after a few hundred miles and I replaced it with a SRAM Rival crank. The brakes are also non groupo Shimano. 

I also have a buddy that bought a bike with full Tiagra and it is night and day in shifting between the two. I would say 105 is closer to Ultegra, although there is still a noticeable difference between the two. Ultegra is great but for almost double the cost in bikes it wan't worth it to me. CR-1 Comp was $1600 with 105 and the CR-1 Pro was $3000 with Ultegra.

My recommendation is to buy as high as you can afford and have some fun!


----------



## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I'm a bit of a Shimano fanboy. I don't mind saying it. One of the things I particularly admire is their chain rings and cassettes. I think that's the speed and smoothness of their higher-tier groups.

As far as shifters are concerned, the only thing that bothers me in a shifter is when it requires both a high lever effort and a long throw. I don't like my SRAM Rival shifters very much at all. Since that bike's supposed to save me money, it'll probably stay SRAM for the rest of its service life, but if I'm buying new, I'm definitely going to stick to looking for Shimano.

Can't decide if I care when it comes to mountain bikes. Both companies screwed up the cross-compatibility of their 10-speed MTB groups, so it's not like I'd be keeping any better compatibility between bikes if I stuck with Shimano on the next one. They do seem to have slightly more refined and conservative engineering, though.


----------



## Nate1975 (Oct 18, 2011)

I have 105 on my Felt F75 and I'm absolutely blown away at how well it works, I couldn't imagine much of a benefit to me on spending more.


----------



## Guest (Apr 14, 2012)

AndrwSwitch said:


> I'm a bit of a Shimano fanboy. I don't mind saying it. One of the things I particularly admire is their chain rings and cassettes. I think that's the speed and smoothness of their higher-tier groups.
> 
> As far as shifters are concerned, the only thing that bothers me in a shifter is when it requires both a high lever effort and a long throw. I don't like my SRAM Rival shifters very much at all. Since that bike's supposed to save me money, it'll probably stay SRAM for the rest of its service life, but if I'm buying new, I'm definitely going to stick to looking for Shimano..


I've spent a fair amount of time riding both Shimano 105 and, presently, SRAM Force. I prefer the SRAM shifting mechanism ergonomics between the two. In my case I felt the reach to the levers was annoyingly long on Shimano stuff. I like the shorter reach of the brake levers on SRAM and the ability to pivot/pull in the brake lever to enable easier shifting with hands in the drops, or on the bar-tops. 

As for the OP, I'd recommend seeing whether he prefers Shimano or SRAM, then getting a reasonable bike that has Tiagra or higher, or Apex or greater (SRAMs lowest-end so this is kind of a given...).

The reason I went for Force was I got a good deal on a bike which came with it. If I were building one up though I probably wouldn't have spent a lot of extra money to upgrade from Apex to Force (mostly weight savings -- functionality is very similar between most the groupsets)


----------



## RussHaysBikes (Apr 15, 2012)

I would say an important investment of your time is making sure you buy the frame thats right for you and that your psyched with... 105 or Apex wont matter if you compromise there. Better to be on a nice well suited frame... that drives you to ride more. Some brands its a but confusing... entry level Roubaix is Tiagra but the same in the Tarmac its Apex. Doesnt matter about the groupo.. all have some + / - but pick the geometry best suited to your physical needs and hopes of use... good luck!


----------



## Sworker (Jul 22, 2010)

Get at least 105...........they new 105 is pretty darn good. I have Dura Ace/Ultra combo on a 09' Tarmac Pro and they work very well, but seeing the new 105 at Interbike told me that 105 has arrived.


----------



## jeeper006 (May 10, 2010)

My first road bike had sora shifters with tiagra der's.... It was plenty sufficient, but required a little tweaking from time to time, but now my new bike is spec'd with 105 on the whole thing and I absolutely love it, I don't race or anything, just a joy riding weekend warrior and as long as the 105 continues to work like it does I will probably never buy a bike with anything more expensive because for me personally the 105 group is flawless! I've always used shimano on road bikes and SRAM on mtb bikes so I really can't give a comparison to apex or anything... However in today's day in age I highly doubt there is a big difference between the two except for maybe a few mindless grams of weight and overall feel


----------



## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

I had built up a roadbike using 105 components, using 5600 components where I could find them on sale, and 5700 components elsewhere. My girlfriend was looking to get into biking, and she absolutely loved the ergonomics of my 105 shifters. So, when it came time for her to decide between a bike with Sora shifters and a bike with Tiagra shifters, she ultimately went with the Tiagra ones because of the similarities between the Tiagra shifting mechanism and my 105's shifting mechanism.

Due to trickle-down, a lot of the older technologies from the higher-end groups are now being used in lower-end groups. You shouldn't feel like you "have" to get a 105 groupset by any means. A Tiagra groupset will save you a few bucks, and will function very similar. As I understood it when Apex came out, SRAM was looking to put Apex somewhere between Shimano's 105 and Tiagra groupsets, to cover that middle ground.


----------



## Bill Bikie (Jul 24, 2010)

*Het...try something else*



Hottody said:


> Considering my first road bike and it seems that every time I look at a road bike I feel like I must get a 105 or Apex setup as a minimum. My hope is that I will ride 20 to 60 miles a week to start. What are your thoughts on the topic?


No, you're not locked into either one of those component groups. Head for a pro shop that sells brands other than Trek or Canondale entry level bikes. Give a Bianchi or pinarello with the Veloce group a try. You don't have lock your self to Shimano. Think (or ride) out of the box.


----------



## Hottody (Mar 31, 2012)

105 is a great group set! I think your opinion on the topic is spot on jeeper006! For most riders 105 is all one should e er need or aspire to have.


----------



## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Bill Bikie said:


> No, you're not locked into either one of those component groups. Head for a pro shop that sells brands other than Trek or Canondale entry level bikes. Give a Bianchi or pinarello with the Veloce group a try. *You don't have lock your self to Shimano. Think (or ride) out of the box.*


You're my new best friend...

Don't be a mindless lemming. Buy something OTHER than yet another Trek with yet another Shimano group.

A Trek 2.3 with Shimano components is the same as saying you've given up on living and are ready to just coast through the rest of your life. Or, in other words, it's the same as buying a Dodge minivan instead of the Fiat 500 Abarth that your soul is really crying out for.


----------



## Hottody (Mar 31, 2012)

You do not need 105, Tiagra is a fine group set and very reliable! Jamis bikes has a Diamondback Podium 2 on sale with Tiagra, hydro formed aluminum frame, carbon forks for $599.00. That is a great price for a really nice bike! Also, I found a 2012 Scattante with 105 for $899.00 plus 10% back when you pay 30 bucks to join their Performance Club! That essentially brings the price down to $820.00 bucks for a 105 bike. I have been researching for a couple months and these are two of the best deals on good road bikes I've seen! Let me know what you think?


----------



## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Hottody said:


> You do not need 105, Tiagra is a fine group set and very reliable! * Jamis bikes* has a *Diamondback Podium 2* on sale with Tiagra, hydro formed aluminum frame, carbon forks for $599.00. That is a great price for a really nice bike! Also, I found a 2012 Scattante with 105 for $899.00 plus 10% back when you pay 30 bucks to join their Performance Club! That essentially brings the price down to $820.00 bucks for a 105 bike. I have been researching for a couple months and these are two of the best deals on good road bikes I've seen! Let me know what you think?


I've been trying to figure this out.
Why do you say that Jamis - a competing bike company - has Diamondback Podium 2 bikes on sale?


----------



## Hottody (Mar 31, 2012)

My appologies PlatyPlus, I meant to say Jenson not Jamis. Jenson has a store in Corona Ca, and also sell online! The Podium 2 is selling for $599.00 and is very nice looking well equipped bicycle.


----------

