# Dura Ace hubs made by..........?



## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

I have a nice set of Dura Ace hubs that see duty in my fall/winter/spring wheels and today I was e-mailing with a bike industry small manufacturer and I mentioned my DA hubs and he dropped this bomb, and I quote - "DA is made by Joytech the last few years". I've asked him to back up that statement of course as it's a biggie.

Can anyone back that claim up?


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## sanrensho (Jan 2, 2003)

I call BS. As a Taiwan-based company, doesn't Joytech manufacture all their components in Taiwan? If so, wouldn't DA hubs be packaged as "Made in Taiwan"? Should be easily verifiable against the boxes (notwithstanding prebuilt wheels).

Also verifiable against the hub service parts, which are labeled "Product of Japan" AFAIK.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

If Joytech could make things of that quality of fit and finish, why wouldn't they do it for their own business/other customers?

I call BS.

Mind you, it's perfectly fine stuff. But it's not in the same league.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Could it be that Joytech is a sub-contractor for Shimano DA hubs and makes them to a contracted standard? Could it be that Joytech have a plant in Japan?

I dunno, the bearer of that news hasn't gotten back to me yet with confirmation.


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## sanrensho (Jan 2, 2003)

Joytech's website and corporate literature indicate that they have one plant in Taiwan and two in China.

It would make zero sense for Shimano to subcontract its hub production to a Taiwanese company for production in Japan. If they were to do that, they could instead access Japanese subcontractors without going to a Taiwanese company. For that matter, I've never heard of a Japanese-made Joytech hub, nor would that make any sense economically.

I think it's complete and unsubstantiated BS.


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## Dave Cutter (Sep 26, 2012)

Could it be that Joytech has recently been acquired by Japanese interests... that also own part plants in Japan (and maybe other places)?


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

probably doesn't help... but the box for the 5700 Freehub says "Product of Malaysia"

but..a quick google search confirms this, including Dura Ace wheels at least are made in shimano's plant in Malaysia


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

danl1 said:


> *If Joytech could make things of that quality of fit and finish, why wouldn't they do it for their own business/other customers?*
> I call BS.
> 
> Mind you, it's perfectly fine stuff. But it's not in the same league.


Because their customers wouldn't pay that price for a "Joytech" branded hub but Shimano and their customers would for a "Dura Ace" branded hub.

Not to say I think that's what's going on, I have no clue. But it would make sense for a company to make something for another company with high name recognition and not make it under their own name. It happens all the time in just about any industry.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Jay Strongbow said:


> t would make sense for a company to make something for another company with high name recognition and not make it under their own name. It happens all the time in just about any industry.


Giant bicycles for instance. Until fairly recently they didn't produce their own name brand frames. Same with Trigon.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Hey up!! My source confirms it. "Serious as a heart attack" he says. That's his claim, not mine, so don't shoot the messenger. There's only one 100% source for the info and I'll bet they ain't sayin'.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

Jay Strongbow said:


> Because their customers wouldn't pay that price for a "Joytech" branded hub but Shimano and their customers would for a "Dura Ace" branded hub.
> 
> Not to say I think that's what's going on, I have no clue. But it would make sense for a company to make something for another company with high name recognition and not make it under their own name. It happens all the time in just about any industry.


Right, but a common misconception is that cost and price have any meaningful correlation. If they can produce DA quality product, they would be able to sell it (under their own name or OEM) at a premium to their normal prices, but still at a discount to lower Shimano lines. 

I'm not saying it isn't happening, but it doesn't feel likely.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

danl1 said:


> Right, but a common misconception is that cost and price have any meaningful correlation. If they can produce DA quality product, they would be able to sell it (under their own name or OEM) at a premium to their normal prices, but still at a discount to lower Shimano lines.
> I'm not saying it isn't happening, but it doesn't feel likely.


Can you imagine the contract that Shimano would make a sub company sign? They wouldn't be able to turn out anything that remotely resembled the product they were contracted to make.


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## biker jk (Dec 5, 2012)

tednugent said:


> probably doesn't help... but the box for the 5700 Freehub says "Product of Malaysia"
> 
> but..a quick google search confirms this, including Dura Ace wheels at least are made in shimano's plant in Malaysia


The wheels are assembled in Malaysia which doesn't mean the hubs can't be made in Taiwan or China. Take the Orbea Orca for example. It says Made in Spain but the frame is manufactured in Asia. I believe that 60% or more of the value added needs to be in Spain to claim it's made there.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I've heard that RST used to make RockShox forks, maybe still does. But the forks they sell under their own name are total garbage.

So here's a scenario, that I present with no backup or sourcing. (So y'all can take it or leave it.)

I have a factory that can make some fairly high-precision bike parts. My marketing department consists of probably two people who mostly call other brands or manage existing relationships. Every year, each brand with whom I have an existing relationship puts in an order for a bunch of my product, made to a high standard, and sold to them without branding. Maybe also without paint or whatever. The production window's not that big, so when that happens, I ask everyone to work a bunch of overtime and I make all that stuff. It's six weeks of hard work, but hey, they pay. Then, that work is over for the year. I'm hesitant to try to spread the work over a longer period because the specs often change a little bit from year to year, and the order sizes often do too. I don't want a bunch of inventory sitting around in my factory - I'm a factory, not a warehouse - and I really don't want it if I don't _know_ I'm going to sell it to my big, corporate customer and I'm not allowed to sell it elsewhere.

I've got a couple of other big customers, but I'm probably only working on these big orders about eight months out of the year. So what do I do with the other four months? I've got a trained staff of machinists. They're worth something to me to keep around. Obviously I need to catch up on organization and maintenance of the equipment around the plant, but I'd be paying these guys to sit on their hands a lot if I didn't make something. So I pay them to put the cheap tooling on the machines and crank out some parts. I sell almost all of it, which is to say that my tolerances are pretty loose. I use cheap materials. But there are some customers that will take what they can get, and I've also talked a couple of distributors into buying some of the really cheap stuff because they can sell it to shops that'll carry the part for people who are just trying to keep their bikes rolling for as little as possible.

I do think it's kind of funny when the companies that mostly do production for others start dabbling in some high-end production under their own names and it doesn't occur to them to cook up a new brand that people don't immediately associate with "cheap garbage," though. While I'm generally happy enough with Tektro's products, a lot of people turn their nose up at them. But TRP? Ooh, aah. Even thought "Tektro" is still right there in the name.


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## coachboyd (Jan 13, 2008)

When I went to Taiwan I visited a CNC factory while I was there. It was down an alley and just in a steel garage building and you would never know looking at the building that there were dozens of machines and tens of thousands of hubs inside there. They were producing hub shells for a lot of the well known hub companies, but that is all they did. 
Blank hub shells would then get shipped out to the respective companies where finish detail (pawls, engagement ring, anodizing, bearings, laser etching) all took place. I did not see any Shimano hubs while I was there (and don't want to reveal exactly which ones I did see), but it may be a situation where the hub shells are produced in one location and the guts of the hubs are produced in another and all finished and assembled in yet another factory.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

This is exactly what is happening with a lot if not most of assembled equipment. Parts are made at various locations from several companies and then assembled wholly or partially at one or more locations.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

maybe one of the other wheelbuilders that make part of a living, building wheels can take a look at the packaging DA hubs come in.

I have 5700, but it doesn't help


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

I have never experienced or read anything negative about the Durace and the Ultegra hubs. They have fallen out of favor because they are not offered in the twenty something drillings since Shimano has been pushing their factory made wheels but if you are looking for a 32h or 36h hub they are hard to beat. I think they make a heck of a wheel for the non-racers and a heck of a training wheel for the racers. 
I feel the best kept secret about hubs is that most people can not tell the difference between midrange and the boutique hubs costing twice or three times as much if the name would not be stenciled on them. 
So I don't care if Joytech, Miserytech or anytech makes them, wholly or partially, as long as they make them the way they have been making them. Although I own several R45 hubs of various configurations, the Ultegra is my favorite 32h hub of all times, at least till now, considering I can buy the set for less than the cost of the front hub of the boutique variety.


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## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

I say Dura-ace and XTR are still made in Japan, all lower spec components in Thaiwan, Malaysia, ect but nothing Shimano is from mainland China.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Lelandjt said:


> I say Dura-ace and XTR are still made in Japan.


My industry insider source says both DA & XTR are Joytech made. And the source is adamant.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

dcgriz said:


> I have never experienced or read anything negative about the Durace and the Ultegra hubs. They have fallen out of favor because they are not offered in the twenty something drillings since Shimano has been pushing their factory made wheels but if you are looking for a 32h or 36h hub they are hard to beat. I think they make a heck of a wheel for the non-racers and a heck of a training wheel for the racers.
> I feel the best kept secret about hubs is that most people can not tell the difference between midrange and the boutique hubs costing twice or three times as much if the name would not be stenciled on them.
> So I don't care if Joytech, Miserytech or anytech makes them, wholly or partially, as long as they make them the way they have been making them. Although I own several R45 hubs of various configurations, the Ultegra is my favorite 32h hub of all times, at least till now, considering I can buy the set for less than the cost of the front hub of the boutique variety.


Yeah I don't care who makes them either. I have both DA and Ultegra hubs and for their cost, both are excellent. Yes Shimano hubs have fallen out of favor due to their limited drillings, and I too fear it's because they would rather push their wheelsets - just like Mavic put nothing into (stand alone) rim development anymore. 

But DA do make hubs in 24/28. BWW sell them, optioned here -

Blackset Race Dura-Ace 7900

They would be my fave hubs, in 24/28, especially as they have a titanium cassette carrier (and King don't).

Colorado Cyclist stock them in 28/28 (others might too).


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## sanrensho (Jan 2, 2003)

Mike T. said:


> My industry insider source says both DA & XTR are Joytech made. And the source is adamant.


If your source is that adamant then perhaps he or she can cough up some evidence.


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

Excel Sports Boulder - Online Bicycle Retailer


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

Mike T. said:


> Yeah I don't care who makes them either. I have both DA and Ultegra hubs and for their cost, both are excellent. Yes Shimano hubs have fallen out of favor due to their limited drillings, and I too fear it's because they would rather push their wheelsets - just like Mavic put nothing into (stand alone) rim development anymore.
> 
> But DA do make hubs in 24/28. BWW sell them, optioned here -
> 
> ...


Your are correct. I should have clarified I tend to buy mine from a UK source because of their price structure. They do not list the DA 24h. I typically go for the 32h unless I build with deep rims so never gave it much thought. The Ultegra is not made in less than 32h.


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## morgan1819 (Nov 22, 2005)

Mike T. said:


> My industry insider source says both DA & XTR are Joytech made. And the source is adamant.


Who's the source? I was a national sales rep for a cycling products company (including wheels) for 3 years, I never, ever had any reason for anonymity. 

I couldn't care if my C24's are made in a shack in Kentucky, they are by far the highest quality, best performing wheels I have ever ridden. This includes custom White/HED, Zipp, Mavic, BWW, Campy/Fulcrum, Boyd, etc.

So while your 'anonymous' source is highly questionable, ultimately, your statement is pointless, because regardless of where they are manufactured, it's done using Shimano machining, Shimano's designs, and Shimano's QC.


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

IMO, this obsession with where geographically a part is made is pointless and irrelevant. The first problem is that often the facts of the matter are extremely unclear. "Made in" branding is basically meaningless. The second problem is that it just doesn't matter: Taiwanese and Chinese manufacturers have proven that they are very capable of producing world class quality. Across the board modern manufacturing techniques, Chinese government subsidies and improved efficiency have pushed high quality way down in the price range these day compared to even a few years ago.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

morgan1819 said:


> So while your 'anonymous' source is highly questionable, ultimately, your statement is pointless, because regardless of where they are manufactured, it's done using Shimano machining, Shimano's designs, and Shimano's QC.


I don't know Mike on a personal level but I have been reading his posts on this and other forums for some time now and that gives quite a few clues about the personality traits of a person. So, based on this, I take it on face value that Mike's source is reputable enough for Mike to quote him on a public forum. As far as being anonymous, I am sure it is the wish of the informant and it should be obvious why such wish was made.
Now as to why does it matter who makes these hubs, as we concluded a few posts above, it does not, as long as the quality we have been used to is maintained. On a side note, I hope Shimano gets the correct hub dimensions from whoever makes these hubs for them and finally correct all the mistakes shown in the Hub Specs pdf under their Tech Tips section.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

morgan1819 said:


> Who's the source? I was a national sales rep for a cycling products company (including wheels) for 3 years, I never, ever had any reason for anonymity.
> 
> I couldn't care if my C24's are made in a shack in Kentucky, they are by far the highest quality, best performing wheels I have ever ridden. This includes custom White/HED, Zipp, Mavic, BWW, Campy/Fulcrum, Boyd, etc.
> 
> So while your 'anonymous' source is highly questionable, ultimately, your statement is pointless, because regardless of where they are manufactured, it's done using Shimano machining, Shimano's designs, and Shimano's QC.


Yawn. And here's me thinking it was a simple and somewhat interesting question and you turn it into the Spanish Inquisition. Let's forget that I "have a source" (but doesn't every rumor have a source?). Have an answer for me? No? Then move on.


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## chandne (Jan 22, 2004)

I hope not. That is like telling me my new Fox fork is made by Suntour or something....especially since I just ordered a DA handbuilt wheelset (DA wheels have too low a spoke count). I am curious to know, but I doubt it. I don't have any sources for this type of detailed info, unfortunately.


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## demonrider (Jul 18, 2012)

I'm not refuting Mike's source, just wanted to comment on the Japanese and how they operate (IMO); I think the Japanese have too much pride in their engineering ability to let anything that is actually made in China, to be labelled made in Japan. There's a whole host of historical (WWII), geo-political (modern day disputes) and national pride reasons why I don't see this happening.

But then again, the need to make money can (and does) change many a tradition.


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## Gjash (Jan 17, 2013)

I've met and talked with the Dura Ace manager in Japan a few years back and he told me Ultegra and DA hubs were made in Japan and lesser lines were made in their factory in Malaysia. We ride some of the same routes and I'll try to confirm. I highly doubt they would contract out their top shelf stuff. Wouldn't make sense at all!


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## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

demonrider said:


> I think the Japanese have too much pride in their engineering ability to let anything that is actually made in China, to be labelled made in Japan. There's a whole host of historical (WWII), geo-political (modern day disputes) and national pride reasons why I don't see this happening.
> 
> But then again, the need to make money can (and does) change many a tradition.


That was my thinking behind them NEVER making any part in mainland China. They used to make everything in Japan but in recent years gave in to greed and began using Malaysia and maybe Taiwan or Thailand.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

dcgriz said:


> I don't know Mike on a personal level but I have been reading his posts on this and other forums for some time now and that gives quite a few clues about the personality traits of a person. So, based on this, I take it on face value that Mike's source is reputable enough for Mike to quote him on a public forum. As far as being anonymous, I am sure it is the wish of the informant and it should be obvious why such wish was made.


Agreed.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

terbennett said:


> Agreed.


If I told you guys who it was, then, well, you know what I'd have to do.............


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

> That was my thinking behind them NEVER making any part in mainland China.


Yet the Wikipedia tells me Shimano has a primary manufacturing plant in Kunshan, China. I'm guessing it's used for fishing tackle, but still, they have no problem manufacturing in China.

And like others, I love my Shimano Dura Ace wheels, and couldn't care less where they're made.


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## steelbikerider (Feb 7, 2005)

Now its Japanese components. I thought that the good stuff was only made in Italy, poished with virgin olive oil and blessed by the Pope. 
As long as the DA quality is there, what does it matter? My daily training wheels are DA 7400 hubs converted to 8/9/10 speed from the old uniglide 7-speed days - hubs have 50000+ miles and are on their 3rd set of rims.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

Lelandjt said:


> That was my thinking behind them NEVER making any part in mainland China. They used to make everything in Japan but in recent years gave in to greed and began using Malaysia and maybe Taiwan or Thailand.


No different than is happening in the auto industry. Toyota, for example, is made all over the world with parts manufactured globally.


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## Gjash (Jan 17, 2013)

This thread seems to be all about speculation and nothing about facts. Shimano contracting out DA hubs would be like Porsche contracting out their engines—not happening! Totally BS. My DA 9000 hubs will be rolling in soon. Guarantee you they say made in Japan just like the 1 year old Ultegra hub I'm looking at.


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## Gjash (Jan 17, 2013)

sanrensho said:


> If your source is that adamant then perhaps he or she can cough up some evidence.


 Evidence or facts? Don't try those on a FUD smear campaign.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

sanrensho said:


> If your source is that adamant then perhaps he or she can cough up some evidence.


I tried but I can't make him -

Old Crone - YouTube

And yes, before you ask, I did try saying "that" word.


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## Gjash (Jan 17, 2013)

Weird thing about this thread is someone makes a ridiculous claim and assumes it's true unless others disprove it. Nonsense. I checked at my local shop and all Dura Ace components were made in Japan. Someone should tell that 'industry insider' to get out of the broom closet and check his, 'source.'


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Gjash said:


> This thread seems to be all about speculation and nothing about facts. Shimano contracting out DA hubs would be like Porsche contracting out their engines—not happening! Totally BS. My DA 9000 hubs will be rolling in soon. Guarantee you they say made in Japan just like the 1 year old Ultegra hub I'm looking at.


Oh, you mean like having Volkswagen engines?

The newest DA hubs I have (7900) say "Made in Japan".
Of course, on the other hand, KMC makes Shimano's chains.

Where a product is made isn't directly the problem. What bothers me is taking a product that sold for X when it was made in Japan, the US, or somewhere else with a high wage and sending production to China where they pay (wage-90%) yet still increase the price to X+20%.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

PlatyPius said:


> Where a product is made isn't directly the problem. What bothers me is taking a product that sold for X when it was made in Japan, the US, or somewhere else with a high wage and sending production to China where they pay (wage-90%) yet still increase the price to X+20%.


You are digging too deep now.! Some say its greed, some others necessity of the times in order to survive. In the short term it may benefit some but in the long term it may hurt more. Do I hear Colnago?


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## demonrider (Jul 18, 2012)

Well one thing is for sure now... Any newbie looking for info on where Dura Ace hubs are made will find this thread as the number one google search result and get quite confused after reading it. 

So for the record; as far as we know and pending tangible evidence, they are made in Japan.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

PlatyPius said:


> Oh, you mean like having Volkswagen engines?
> 
> .


I would love to have a loaded up base model Cayenne with the volkswagen 3.6L VR6 engine with the 6-speed manual tranny

remove the center muffler for a straight pipe and listen to the beautiful sound that a VR motor makes.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

tednugent said:


> I would love to have a loaded up base model Cayenne with the volkswagen 3.6L VR6 engine with the 6-speed manual tranny
> 
> remove the center muffler for a straight pipe and listen to the beautiful sound that a VR motor makes.


That's crazy talk! That would be like putting a W16 in something like a Bugatti or some such.


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## morgan1819 (Nov 22, 2005)

demonrider said:


> Well one thing is for sure now... Any newbie looking for info on where Dura Ace hubs are made will find this thread as the number one google search result and get quite confused after reading it.
> 
> So for the record; as far as we know and pending tangible evidence, they are made in Japan.


So true. Nobody cares about tangible evidence this days, especially Kardashian fans, Us Weekly readers, and the original poster in this thread.


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## cfoster (Dec 20, 2007)

morgan1819 said:


> So true. Nobody cares about tangible evidence this days, especially Kardashian fans, Us Weekly readers, and the original poster in this thread.


Not only did you miss the point of the original post, but you seem incapable of differentiating the difference between an idea and the source.

On another note, if you've never purchased wheels from BWW, why do you feel comfortable comparing them to anything? Too busy looking for a quick/easy answer is my guess...


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## morgan1819 (Nov 22, 2005)

cfoster said:


> Not only did you miss the point of the original post, but you seem incapable of differentiating the difference between an idea and the source.
> 
> On another note, if you've never purchased wheels from BWW, why do you feel comfortable comparing them to anything? Too busy looking for a quick/easy answer is my guess...


Nice attack.


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## cfoster (Dec 20, 2007)

morgan1819 said:


> Nice attack.


Let's discuss....

Original post

"I have a nice set of Dura Ace hubs that see duty in my fall/winter/spring wheels and today I was e-mailing with a bike industry small manufacturer and I mentioned my DA hubs and he dropped this bomb, and I quote - "DA is made by Joytech the last few years". I've asked him to back up that statement of course as it's a biggie.

Can anyone back that claim up?"


You...

"So true. Nobody cares about tangible evidence this days, especially Kardashian fans, Us Weekly readers, and the original poster in this thread."


Are you sharing with us how you think? Or are you attacking the original poster? It's humorous how the original poster is asking for evidence, and you're claiming they're the type of person that doesn't care about evidence. Obviously they do, hence the thread. And hence my prior statement about you missing the point above.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

cfoster said:


> Me - "Can anyone back that claim up?".


Chris, I'm desperately hoping that Deep Axle will drop a bombshell and create Hubgate with a smuggled copy of a Joytech/Shimano signed contract. Until then I'll just sit back and enjoy the fun.


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## morgan1819 (Nov 22, 2005)

cfoster said:


> Let's discuss....
> 
> Original post
> 
> ...


You win, cfoster. You win.


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## morgan1819 (Nov 22, 2005)

cfoster said:


> Let's discuss.....


Ok.

Here is another example where you get a little edgy in a thread where xtekian was stating that he preferred the ride of his 23mm rims:

*Originally Posted by xtekian View Post
*
"The critical difference between the two is that the Vitesse has a 23mm wide rim and so will have a better ride feel and accommodate wider tires. 28mm vs 30mm probably has a negligible aero difference."

*(cfoster's reply) *

"I find messages like this personally bothersome, in that I feel like they play off of interested people's expectations, rather than accurately portray products. I say that assuming that very few people would actually want to buy an "uncomforatble" wheel set.

Then there's an odd comparison trying to assert that a 2mm rim profile height difference doesn't affect a rim's aero characteristics? Yet a 4mm rim width difference transforms a rim into a much more comfortable riding experience? Let's forget the fact that a 19mm wide rim will happily accept a wide range of tire sizes. A 23mm wide road rim, if you're talking about "proper" tire fit, would academically be most suited for a 700x28 - 700x40, or even maybe a tad bigger. Is that even road "race" cycling range? That seems like cross or commuting, or leisure.

I have no doubt that wide rims will make a "comeback". Road rim options are available in virtually any width/height combo that you can reasonably imagine. When you see one particular width or profile height being actively sold, however, that's more indicative of a rim manufactuer trying to sell through their obligation of extrusion volume, and offering very attractive rim pricing, rather than a "design" based on targeted performance. A lot of this rim volume obligation is actually fallout/leftovers from what OE bike companies do not want to buy. So there's that too.

The industry used to have to make wide road rims, 25+ years ago, due to poor alloys, poor extrusion quality, etc. etc. Over time things have gotten better, rims have too. The industry, in an effort to save weight, has figured out how to make light weight, strong rims that fit the bulk of tire options available. I know in a year or two, there will be tons of high end 700x28 performance road tires, but in the mean time, if you're shopping for super performance 700x28 tires, you might find your options very limited, unless you're a Cross rider."

-------------------------------------
Sounds like you are telling me and all of my riding friends that we really shouldn't be enjoying the ride of our 22-23mm wheels over the 19mm now tucked away in our closets...


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

PlatyPius said:


> That's crazy talk! That would be like putting a W16 in something like a Bugatti or some such.


sort of like buying a Bentley Continental GT.... then someone says.... nice Volkswagen....

which It does use the VW Phaeton chassis. the W12 motor is a turbo version of the one used in the Phaeton...


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## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

I would agree that 2mm difference in rim height (all else the same) will have no measurable aero effect but a 4mm difference in internal rim width (same tire) will have a noticable effect. In MTB I can definitely tell the difference in 4mm of rim width.

I didn't read that whole thing but that one line caught my eye.


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## Gjash (Jan 17, 2013)

cfoster said:


> Let's discuss....
> 
> Original post
> 
> ...


The OP didn't just ask for evidence. He made an assertion as though he had a creditable "inside source." Basically spreading a rumor that has no basis in fact. You should thank posters that point that out. This thread is a great reminder that crap is posted as info all the time on the net. Too bad it will actually pop up when googled as its nonsense.


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## Andreas_Illesch (Jul 9, 2002)

It might be that the 10speed only FH-7800 or -7801 (at least it's freewheel body) were made by Joytech/Novatec.

The 3 pawl aluminium design is unique within all shimano hubs and looks pretty similar to Novatecs 3 pawl design.

FH-7800 body:









Novatec body:


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

dcgriz said:


> On a side note, I hope Shimano gets the correct hub dimensions from whoever makes these hubs for them and finally correct all the mistakes shown in the Hub Specs pdf under their Tech Tips section.


From your lips (well, fingers)... It's just so glaring - knowing almost nothing of the physical goods, the piece of paper itself just doesn't make sense. Or at least, you can simply look at it and say "that can't be right." No idea how they've let that be for so long.


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## StillKeen (Oct 4, 2005)

*Shimano definitely manufacture in China*

Someone said earlier that shimano don't make in mainland China. Their website disagrees.

View attachment 275768


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

That's for corporate.


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## morgan1819 (Nov 22, 2005)

I think most people have gotten over the 'Made in China' thing. It's sooooo 2007.

Anywho, the fact that Shimano has offices all over the world, has absolutely nothing to do with where the parts are made.

But again, I couldn't care less either way.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

morgan1819 said:


> I think most people have gotten over the 'Made in China' thing. It's sooooo 2007.
> 
> Anywho, the fact that Shimano has offices all over the world, has absolutely nothing to do with where the parts are made.
> 
> But again, I *couldn't* care less either way.



FIFY. kthnxbai


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## cfoster (Dec 20, 2007)

morgan1819 said:


> I think most people have gotten over the 'Made in China' thing. It's sooooo 2007.
> 
> Anywho, the fact that Shimano has offices all over the world, has absolutely nothing to do with where the parts are made.
> 
> But again, I couldn't care less either way.


They have established factory production close to OE demand to reduce transportation costs, duty/tariff payments, and lost time due to transit, wherever that may be. They're working closer to their partners.


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## morgan1819 (Nov 22, 2005)

cfoster said:


> They have established factory production close to OE demand to reduce transportation costs, duty/tariff payments, and lost time due to transit, wherever that may be. They're working closer to their partners.


Awesome!


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