# Demystifying hidden cable routing on new Specialized...



## roadworthy

Since many here are considering or perhaps have just purchased a new Roubaix or Tarmac with hidden cable routing...I thought I would provide some simple tips I have learned. This can be used as a living thread for others to share their experience as well to help elevate working knowledge of threading cables through these great new bikes.
I will start by saying that anybody avoiding a hidden cable bike because they prefer the simplicity of an exposed cable frameset...shouldn't. Its super easy to set up the cables on the new bike. So want to mention this up front for anybody concerned about installing cables on the new bikes with hidden routing. Also cable drag is very low on my new build...bike upshifts solidly into the new smaller cog in back. Many know about the 'California Cross' for cable routing. This simply crosses derailleur cables in front of the head tube and then again inside the downtube as they route down through the cable guide shown below which on my '12 Roubaix Pro is a 2-piece cable guide. Cross of cables is minimize internal cable drag by having cable housing bends as natural as possible. Multilple or tighter radii same side routing 'may' increase internal cable drag creating lethargic up shifting in particular.

The issue of whether to run in-line cable housing adjusters has come up before and I will only add, I am a huge proponent of doing so having tuned the derailleurs on my Roubaix now for a short while. They make life a whole lot easier. I am fussy about the trim on my derailleurs and want the bike dead silent even when running slightly cross-chained which is attainable.

Since I have had the cables on and off my bike a couple of times to achieve just the right length of housing, I have learned a couple of tricks along the way:

- From the vantage point of the opening in the downtube just in front of the BB under the bike, peer down into the downtube to ensure when you cross the front and rear derailleur cables you don't wrap them one more time. Double crossing derailleur cables would hamper shift quality greatly. It is unclear whether to cross front or rear derailleur cable over the other having studied it.
I would say it doesn't matter as both cables enter the downtube at the same elevation and also end up at the same vertical height on the cable guide under the bottom bracket shown below. Put a light down the down tube when seeing whether the sheathing is crossing once only as it should when setting up the California Cross orientation.

- Which leads to the best way to install cables. Once you have the proper housing length established from under the handlebar tape to down tube, best approach is to invert the bike and rest it on its handlebar hoods and seat like a tripod. This is how we worked on bikes as kids and much easier than threading cables though the frame with the frame hanging from a frame stand. Now you can see under the BB and inside the downtube without craning your neck and much easier to fish cables through the BB cable guide.

- A further good tip is...if you don't like the length of your housings for example and need to remove them for shortening which is common after an initial build...and need to pull the cables out of the frame, restring your sheathings back over the cables and...the important point...you don't have unscrew the ICR stops on the frame. The little screws are sensitive to cross-threading and my suggestion is don't remove them unless you have to. The sheathing diameter easily penetrates the housing stops so you don't have to remove the stop ports and I suggest the fewer you need to take these off the better.

- Speaking of cross threading...a brief comment about the cable guide screw that keeps the two cable guide halves together and secure to the bottom of the BB. The thread on my new Roubaix is sadly sub par. It is not stripped, but it is ratty. This maybe just an outliar or maybe common issue on these bikes. But my bike had a thread that not only doesn't look good but offered resistance when threading the little cable guide screw which is unfortunate. There are many workarounds if the screw were to strip but it didn't. I was very sensitive to not overtorquing however because of the poor thread quality. Further, the thread engagement of the screw was insufficient...screw was spec'ed too short and existing thread wasn't used throughout its thread bore length which further stresses the amount of thread that is engaged...especially with a poor female thread. You want the BB guide screw to penetrate the BB thread depth/thickness of the shell which on my bike it didn't. This can cause water puddling on the backside of the thread inside the BB. I believe the thread is 10-32. I replaced the screw with a stainless screw one size longer for full thread engagement thru the BB shell. Because of a margin thread, I used blue loctite and believe it will be fine but word up if you run into this on your new frameset. Btw, you do not have to remove this screw and I suggest you don't unless you have to as the cables can be threaded...including sheathing without removing the bb screw and lifting one side of the cable guide. Also, there is a drainage hole adjacent to the guide so no need to remove the screw periodically for drainage if you tend to ride in the rain.

- A last note if one side of the sheathing falls inside the downtube or rear right hand chainstay which happened to me in both cases. Don't panic. The sheathing has sufficient spine to route it thru again. Simply rotate and angle the sheath and fish it back through which can be accomplished with a bit of finessing accompanied by colorful language.

Above are the salient points and a very short list. I wanted to provide some notes to those that go next that threading or recabling a new Specialized road bike with hidden routing is very easy.

A last note...and I wrote to Specialized about this...Specialized made a running change to make all ICR (internal cable routing) stops the same. They are all labeled with the no. 3.
Since brake and derailleur housings have different diameters...4mm OD for derailleur and 5mm for brake housings, general wisdom is, only derailleur housings should use ferrules into the ICR stops and not brake housings which typically don't need them anyway because of housing construction.

Hope that helps and please use this thread to provide tips you have learned along the way.


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## ukbloke

Thanks for the detailed information! This is very helpful and I'm sure it will prove useful to many readers.

I recall that there was some discussion about the internal brake cable and avoiding rattles - do you want to add some of that information to this thread too?


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## roadworthy

Happy New Year ukbloke and thanks for your comments.
The internal brake cable rattle issue maybe a worthy addition...but I started a dedicated thread on that a while ago that had some good input from other members. Please feel free to merge the threads if you wish...but the brake rattle issue maybe a good one to stand on its own as well...as it doesn't seem to affect everybody. I only have a limited amount of miles on my new Roubaix due to winter for example and didn't detect any brake cable rattle...in fact no rattles on the bike. My posture on this and a suggestion for others building a new bike is...this issue maybe sensitive to frame size and/or types of roads ridden...even the hearing of the rider  and therefore perhaps best to build the bike without the sheathing and O-rings pushed onto the brake cable initially. If a rattle is detected...very straightforward without need to remove the cable from the bike...steps are:
undo the cable at the rear caliper...remove the short rear housing and rear ICR stop and push a sheathing with O-rings onto the rear of the cable and then reverse the former steps. A simple retrofit.
Purpose of putting this thread out there is to help others as I didn't know what to expect going in and learned alot in the process and if armed with a few tips going in, will lower anxiety for many with their build. Also a dedicated thread if any questions arise, further tips are developed etc.
Best Regards.


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## tetonrider

good stuff--very thorough. 

i proactively put some sheathing and donuts on the rear brake cable to avoid rattle on a tarmac and venge. no noise thus far.

internal cabling offers the promise of simplicity...but it can be really challenging/frustrating.


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## roadworthy

Thanks tetonrider. In sum, I believe the hidden cables to be worth the slight extra effort which I am sure you agree isn't a lot more work at all. Taking the cables off the bike for tuning housing lengths provided more ideas of how to install the cables. The engineering behind these frames is pretty impressive.


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## tetonrider

roadworthy said:


> Thanks tetonrider. In sum, I believe the hidden cables to be worth the slight extra effort which I am sure you agree isn't a lot more work at all. Taking the cables off the bike for tuning housing lengths provided more ideas of how to install the cables. The engineering behind these frames is pretty impressive.


i agree it is worth the effort. i like the cleaner look. i should also note i installed di2 on an sl4 and a venge, now.

the sl4 was a bit easier to wire than the venge. on the venge, when you're running cable (mechanical) to the rear derailleur, the housing basically runs down the down tube, exits the frame, and then goes back in the chain stay and out by the rear derailleur. pretty simple.

with di2, you actually need to run the wire from the RD down the chain stay...then it has to go UP and OVER the bottom bracket, then down just in front of the BB. running the FD cable has a similar challenge.

the orientation of the venue's tubes and bottom bracket (though just a little bit different than the sl4) made this quite a bit harder to deal with. it's funny, because in looking at the frames you would think the process would be equally hard or difficult.

i should also add that i wired up internal batteries, so i had just a little more work to do.

in summary, i can string up a bike with external cables in around 30 minutes. with these frames it was more like a 3 hour (not exaggerating) operation. it took me almost precisely an hour just to deal with the rear derailleur cable in the venge. pretty crazy, huh?

here's another thing that's different:
when you string up the sl4 with di2, you run the cable down the own tube. at the end of the operation, you insert the grommet to close up the frame inlet.

i strung up the entire venge, used heat shrink on the di2 cables..........then realized the front cable stops are different on the venge vs sl4. in fact, one has to run the front cable down the down tube by FIRST running it through the cable stop, then inserting it into the frame. that meant i had to pull the cables from the BB, undo the heat shrink, remove the cable, run it through the cable stop....then wire it up again. fun!

another tip: when running internal cables, consider removing the bottle cage bolts. they protrude into the frame, and it is possible for cables to get hung up on them. removing those bolts (esp during a di2 install) will make things easier. with di2, the cables come with zip ties on them to reduce/prevent rattling, and they can be a little tricky.

i may post some pics if folks are interested.


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## roadworthy

I am interested in your pics tetonrider...so please feel free to add them. This thread was meant to be about sharing experience and lessons learned so please add some pics if you get a chance.
Thanks.


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## RkFast

To add to this thread, Im having a bear of a time getting my cables right on my SL4. Im thinking this is primarily due to the fact its a smaller frame with the stem fairly low, so i dont have a lot of "room" to play with.

Im currently set up as "California Cross" with is OK. The cables hit my legs a bit when out of the saddle and hammering a little bit but that I could get used to. The real problem is that with everything so tight on the bars room-wise, whenever the bars are turned any decent amount, all the cables bunch up and bind and get all twisted up and the in-line adjuster rubs the handlebars or gets caught on the other cables. Its not good. 

Is there any guidance on the best way to route these cables at the bar? Should I route under the handlebars a certain way? Order the cables a certain way? Im not married to crossing them and notice Spesh uses a traditional setup on complete bikes (I got frameset only an built it).

Here is how Im looking now:


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## roadworthy

Hi Rk,
Should all be resolvable with a bit of tweaking.
I see two notable things off the bat.
Your left hand cable housing...as you sit on the bike and look down, appears too long. Rear brake housing looks long as well...on the same side.

On your right side as you sit on the bike, your in line cable adjuster is too far rearward...should be more under the handlebar. 

You should be able to resolve all this without buying new cables btw. For the right hand side into the downtube derailleur cable, which is your front derailleur...pull the bare cable through the shifter well past the adjuster and snip the housing shorter and relocate the adjuster closer to the stem. You shouldn't have to touch your bar tape job for any of this. Then you will need a piece of replacement segment of housing because you have moved your adjuster forward...which btw is sold in lengths...Shimano SP-41 cable housing works well...google it...even for Campy housing...don't need a full new cable set. Same practice for both cable housings on the left of the bike as you sit and look down...brake and rear derailleur cables are too long.

See my Roubaix below. What you want to do is posture the cable length just so you can turn your handlebar about 80-90 degress with no more slack...the cables will limit further travel in other words. Be careful though...cut and test in small increments...a little change in cable housing length makes a BIG difference in how far you can turn the handlebars.
Hope that helps.


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## RkFast

Thanks for the advice. I played around a lot last night and just could not get the crossing of the cables to work without major binding and bunching up of the cables when turning the bars...at least not to my satisfaction. I just dont have a lot of room with such a small frame. So I went with a traditional routing. 

The funny thing is...before I did, I did some tests of cable drag. I now have the traditional routing with the cables under the front of the bars and I could not pick up any more drag when I moved the cables back and forth in their housing, compared to a cross routing and even with the cables mounted to the back of the bars. I played around a lot with this before taping everything up. Now...Im not gonna say all the mechanics who swear by the cross method and its reduction in friction are wrong....Im just not seeing the claim play out in my scenario and any increase in drag wasnt worth the cable pinching and bunching and additional pulling and pushing on the frame stops which I noticed with the cross method and _really _wasnt thrilled with.

Anways....I did go with a traditional routing and can turn the bars through their full travel with no binding or weird cable bunching or stress being placed on the frame mounts. All good. I might move the cables "down" on the bars a bit from where they exit the tape so they dont ride so high on the stem, but overall, I think I did a fairly decent job both in terms of look and function. 

Let me know if its looks like a hack job 

Here is a picture from my bunker:


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## roadworthy

Granted your bar is lower to entry points into the stops on the downtube...but am a bit puzzled why you couldn't get the California Cross to work. If you look at mine...again on a tall head tube Roubaix....notice the radical difference in the tightness of the radii....there is no comparison. The whole point of crossing the cables in front of the head tube is it reduces the internal stress on the cables by not asking the housings and cable to do a U turn from under the bar tape to the same side of the head tube. Crossing the head tube has to reduce internal cable drag and frankly...no different than how the vast majority of external cable bikes are routed...to opposite sides of the head tube. Internal cable drag goes up proportional to the tighter the housing radii. If your bike shifts well in that config and you have full handlebar swing left and right then all is good and as long as you are happy with it...all that matters. Specialized has sold bikes in both configs.
Ride safe.


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## RkFast

Believe me, I would have liked it crossed. I think the issue for the smaller bike comes from the fact that the cables lie almost horizontal when crossed. Yours, on the taller head tube, take a more vertical position, giving them lots of room to move around. With my cables being horizontal, they are getting all hung up on each other when you turn the bars. 

This is not a new rodeo for me. Small frames are a PITA to cable correctly becuase small frames mean NOT a lot of room and often, tight bends on the cables. I had the same issue on my mountain bike, so much so that when I finally came up with a solution, the frame manufacturer (small company in CA) emailed ME requesting pics of the "solution" I came up so he could share with his other customers.


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## roadworthy

Congrats on figuring out a solution that works. No doubt a smaller frame changes the landscape a bit. Perhaps somebody with a smaller size Tarmac will weigh in with a picture and some advice.
Cheers.


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## tetonrider

RkFast said:


> Is there any guidance on the best way to route these cables at the bar? Should I route under the handlebars a certain way? Order the cables a certain way? Im not married to crossing them and notice Spesh uses a traditional setup on complete bikes (I got frameset only an built it).


specialized doesn't send out complete builds--shops build complete bikes. so, all that means is that the shops you have seen use traditional setups. 

the cross method has worked very well for me on numerous bikes, including my wife's small frame.



RkFast said:


> Let me know if its looks like a hack job
> 
> Here is a picture from my bunker:


all that really matters is whether it works for you, but it seems to me that you have materially longer cables than are necessary. they go way past the opposite side of the HT. if it works for you, great, but there are cleaner setups. i've never found "friction" to be a problem with cable routing...in real riding i just don't turn my bars very much at all, and even if i'm in a parking lot doing a tight 180 at 2 mph, cable friction isn't the problem. 

i, for one, just want a clean setup.



RkFast said:


> Believe me, I would have liked it crossed. I think the issue for the smaller bike comes from the fact that the cables lie almost horizontal when crossed. Yours, on the taller head tube, take a more vertical position, giving them lots of room to move around. With my cables being horizontal, they are getting all hung up on each other when you turn the bars.


well....what length/angle stem do you run? a small frame (assuming it fits) still means the same stem that others use (100, 100, etc.). i've had no problems using the california cross on frames from 52 & up, and stems from 65mm to 130 (-17 & up). the trick is leaving the cables long, then cutting away just a very little bit at a time until you find the perfect balance of enough cable to allow full rotation of the bars and not too little to bind. my cables are generally pretty horizontal.


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## RkFast

I think tonight Im going to go in and shorten the cables a bit and tighten things up. 

teton..its a 52 with a 90MM stem. Im sure I could use your trick to go with a crossed solution. Might still try.


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## roadworthy

Will give you a tip that hopefully will help. If I am interpreting you properly...you say the handlebar bar is binding as you turn it when you run the Cal cross. Looking at your pictures, I am quite sure this is due to where you have the cable housing exiting from under the bar tape. What I suggest is...if you want to give the Cal cross another go...unwrap your tape on both sides back to the shifters.
Revise the cable routing along the bar such that it exists 'under' the bar....not well in front. Take a look at my Roubaix pic. For a less encumbered rotating of the bar...I have the cable housings emit under the bar. That way the bar is free to rotate. I believe your issue maybe that you have the housing coming out in front of rather than below the handlebar. A good possibility is...your cables are catching on the stem as you turn the handlebar because the cables are coming out higher in front versus under the handlebar where they have more clearance to swing with the bar. Btw...a further tip is...use electrical tape in a couple of spots underneath the handlebar tape to keep the cables in alignment...as without it, they are more prone to move around...also makes it easier to wrap your bars...you may do this already but another suggestion to help. Generally what I do is never wrap the handlebar until I have ridden the bike. I am super fussy about shifter location and handlebar rotation etc...and prefer to dial the ergos of the bar, levers and tweak cable length...before final wrapping of the bars.


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## RkFast

I give it a shot! Thanks.


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## RkFast

So I finally finished my handlebar mess last night. I didnt go crossed...stayed "traditional" routing. Cables come out under the bar for the mech, front of the bar for the brake, cross in front of the headtube. Took some dealing to set all the lenghts to the point where the "play" with each other nicely when turning the bars. Buts its set now. I also moved the inline adjuster for the front mech to a spot only about half an inch from where the cable come out from under the bar tape. This is the only spot I could find where its truly out of the way, wont hit the head tube when turning the bars, interfere with the other cables, or screw up the nice bends the cables have. 

So after years of battles and millions of casualties I got a setup thats clean, looks good and most important works. 

Now I can go ride.

But of course, its gonna rain for the next three days.


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## roadworthy

Here's two more Cal cross for reference. After all your effort, still a bit surprised you couldn't get the cross to work...or perhaps you didn' because you believe conventional routing works better.
What matters is you are happy with it.
Cheers.


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## Devastazione

Killer topic !!

I'm really about to sell my '12 Roubaix Expert because I could not get it to change gears properly from day one. I've tried California Crossing,replaced cables,used SP41 lube but nothing,zero,nada..the bike still sucks !! Even when she seems to shift smootly while on the stand as soon as I sit and start to pedal here comes the bad shifting again. I'm totally disappointed.

I have one last chance : replacing the lousy Jagwire housing as suggested by some friend. Waiting to have Dura Ace SP41's coming in. Tension barrels are going on both sides,no question about it.

There is still one thing I'm wondering : to California Cross or not ????? 'tis bike is driving me NUTS. I'll sue Specialized if my wife will file for divorce as I've spent the last 3 nights working in the garage..


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## roadworthy

Devastazione said:


> Killer topic !!
> 
> I'm really about to sell my '12 Roubaix Expert because I could not get it to change gears properly from day one. I've tried California Crossing,replaced cables,used SP41 lube but nothing,zero,nada..the bike still sucks !! Even when she seems to shift smootly while on the stand as soon as I sit and start to pedal here comes the bad shifting again. I'm totally disappointed.
> 
> I have one last chance : replacing the lousy Jagwire housing as suggested by some friend. Waiting to have Dura Ace SP41's coming in. Tension barrels are going on both sides,no question about it.
> 
> There is still one thing I'm wondering : to California Cross or not ????? 'tis bike is driving me NUTS. I'll sue Specialized if my wife will file for divorce as I've spent the last 3 nights working in the garage..


If I have even a penny for all the bikes, cars and computers sold because of a minor issue that changed the customer's perception of their product, I would have more money than Oprah...lol.

Your problem is:
- Defective shifter or derailleur
- incorrect set up

The bike has nothing to do with it. So...if you can change your mindset first...this will save you even more pain...like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Look at it as a learning opportunity and pray for patience. I have been building bikes for a long time. I also build computers as a hobby and they can be at times very challenging to even me with a fair amount of experience. If you want frustration...stay away from computers.  The average guy doesn't have a chance.

Go California Cross without question.
But first...which derailleur is not shifting properly?..front or rear?

What you do when try to solve a shifting issue...is start in the front and work back. Don't hook up the cable. Shift with your right hand and feel cable tension/drag with your left hand..
Test:
1. right out of the shifter
2.routed thru front housing before downtube
3. same thing after wrapping cable with bar tape.
4. after the cable is threaded thru the down tube as it exits under the BB. Get the picture?...you shift with right hand and feel cable tension/drag at every enter/exit point along the bike frame.
5. before it attaches to the rear derailleur after it exits the rear RH chainstay.

So you are doing something wrong...or a lower probability is...your shifter or rear derailleur are sub par...or...you are missing an interior sheath that is inserted into the cable stop before installing the cable...or your rear chainstay ferrule is upside down...the one in back of the rear chain stay. Probably...something like...your housing cuts aren't square or your housings are blocked on the ends because you didn't reem the interior coating. Straightest cut off of housings is with a dremmel. Watch for melted housing core on the ends. Something minor like this can completely ruin shifting.

Just to give you come assurance...my new Roubaix shifts better than my Look road bike...same grouppo...which had exposed cable. It literally slams into the next smaller cog in back...no cable drag or very little.

It always comes down to attention to detail. The bike has been tested at the factory and out in the field at length...nothing wrong with the bike.

Good luck.
PS: you are in good company. In my experience, half the bike shops out there can't set up the cables properly on a road bike either.


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## Devastazione

Hi RW and thank you for getting back to me so quickly

It's the rear derailleur giving me all this headhache. I've just replaced the rear cable guide,the one that exits the rear chainstay and cover the very last part of cable. I would say the things improved a bit,I actually feel a bit more effective tension on the lever but the derailleur is still sort of unprecise on the way up/down especially halfway trough the cassette. But this is been quite enlightening anyway,I'm pretty confident things will improve once I will replace the dreadful Jagwire cables( I love them on my MTBs but a lot of fellow riders and forumers here in Italy told me to get rid of them if using Shimano groups...whatever..).
Funnily enough,spoke to my LBS ( not that local since we live quite apart) and he told me there is no need to go California Crossing.......

Final tip needed : how do I make myself sure I will not doublecross the cable inside the down tube ? Do I just assemble what I have to assemble and pray for it and later check with a flashlight ?


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## roadworthy

Devastazione said:


> Hi RW and thank you for getting back to me so quickly
> 
> It's the rear derailleur giving me all this headhacke. I've just replaced the rear cable guide,the one that exits the rear chainstay and cover the very last part of cable. I would say the things improved a bit,I actually feel a lot less drag on the lever but the derailleur is still sort of unprecise on the way up/down especially halfway trough the cassette. But this is been quite enlightening anyway,I'm pretty confident things will improve once I will replace the dreadful Jagwire cables( I love them on my MTB but a lot of fellow riders and forumers here in Italy told me to get rid of them if using Shimano groups...whatever..).
> Funnily enough,spoke to my LBS ( not that local since we live quite apart) and he told me there is no need to go California Crossing.
> Final tip needed : how do I make myself sure I will not doublecross the cable inside the down ? Do I just assemble what I have to assemble and pray for it and later check with a flashlight ?


If you are in Italy...you are a lucky man. Italy is probably the prettiest country on the planet and what better place to enjoy road biking.

I've built bikes with Shimano SP-41, Jagwire Ripcord and Campy cable sets...and many times a combination  Honestly, I don't find much difference between any of them...they are all good. I don't believe in buying 'special' or sealed cable sets however and paying a premium. Its pretty much always in the execution Dev...which trumps which type of cable you use. I also build dry...no internal lube on the cables..which seems to just bind more with internal teflon coating and attract dirt.
I use Jagwire cables...but not their housings FWIW...either SP-41...or Campy housings...both are 4mm OD. Jagwire Ripcord bare cables however are excellent and use them all the time.
Either Calf cross or same side routing will work. Calf cross is a more natural routing and smoother radii manifest less internal housing drag is the point...plus less stress on the cable stops that are screwed to the carbon fiber as you turn the handlebars.

As to an internal double cross or wrapping of the cables inside the downtube...a good question...and one I pondered when building my bike. Best approach is...invert the bike on carpet...take it off the bike stand. Remove the bottom bracket guide plate for clear access to peaking into the down tube. Use a small pen light. Now you can see inside th downtube pretty well without craning your neck on the stand.. Much easier with the bike upside down resting on saddle and hoods like a tripod.
From there, you should be able to tell if the cables are tangled as you cross/thread them through. Another nuance is...I couldn't figure out if either the front or rear derailleur cable should cross on top of the other. Assessing location ports of entry into the down tube...I decided it doesn't matter. Entry and exit points are about the same height on each side of the downtube and under the BB. If the cables do intersect under tension...it contributes negligible drag to either or both.
Hope that helps.
PS: don't sell the bike...you own perhaps the finest road bike sold in the world.


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## Devastazione

Roadworthy,thanks again for your great suggestions and thanks to other members for chiming in with their own.
Right...did not sit idle today but I've spent another couple of hours in the garage trimming down housing cables and making myself sure I've "Calicrossed" the whole thing. I'd now say shifting is 90% there. The remaining 10% can be achieved by getting rid of the trimming barrel IMHO. Test ride tomorrow.

But of course one very last tip is needed and the answer to it will be very relevant in my decision to get rid of the whole Jagwire housing and therefore venturing into a new bar wrapping.
Question is : Shimano Ultegra Shifters. Do I just have the "click" and wait for gear to engage or to I have to go a little bit further beyond the "click" sound/feel in order to have the derailleur being more spot on (it's the way up I'm talking about) ?
Why this question ? I do go a little beyond the "click" in orderd to land the right gear. If I just flick the lever and leave it with a simple click the chain does not engage immediately,it start to sound rough and I have to wait a few secs for her to engage.

Anyway,this is my new housing,nice and clean,I'm loving it. Cheers to you,let me dedicate you a nice shot of my bike and the lovely coast of Sardinia,Italy,that's where I live.
Don't bash me about the lousy DT 3.0 wheels,they are soon going. Probably the only part of the bike I really don't like :thumbsup:


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## roadworthy

What an amazing place. No wonder the greatest art and some of the great philosophy and engineering has emanated from such an inspiring environment.

In answer to your question...shifting should be just about immediate or your cable tension is too loose if you are climbing the cassette in back. As soon as you move the lever the chain should climb...so your tension is a bit soft. By contrast dumping a cog aka upshifting in back should be the same. If you aren't stair stepping down the cassette without hesitation you either have too much cable tension or you have cable drag.

Lastly, on an aesthetic level, you can shorten your front brake housing and cable a bit. This will make is look right. Unwrap the left inboard tape and lower the exit point of the front brake housing and then shorten it. Detach it from the brake caliper and then pull the cable thru the shifter and then snip the housing shorter..
This will bring the universe into harmony. 

Enjoy beautiful Italy.


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## djwalker

One thing I noticed in all the pictures is that the bikes are cabled with the two cables from the right lever splitting between the two cables from the left lever. I like to route the cables with BOTH right lever cables in front of both left lever cables. I think this looks nicer but also I find there is less binding up of the cables at the extremes of bar rotation.


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## CitizenK

FYI... I'm not able to post links, but if you got to vimeo.com, and search for
23917838

There is a good video: *Roubaix (2011-2012) Internal Cable Routing*


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## 67stang

Wow what a relevant thread.. Just this Weekend I had a SRAM red groupo installed on my 2011 roubaix sl3 pro. Previously it had an older 105 groupo and so only the brake cable routed under the bar tape. Now with both brake and shift cables under the bar tape I am OCDing a bit on whether my mechanic did the routing correctly. He chose the SRAM cable positions where the cables run front and behind the bar, so you get the lump being the hoods... I'll have to get used to that. The bar tops feel lame to me with all that cable under the tape.. But anyway, that's something I can adapt to I assume.

I am more concerned about the shift cables not doing the California cross... Does it matter? 

Does this look ok to you?
db.tt/xp4C9xqv


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## 67stang

sorry, the forum doesn't yet allow me to post a picture or a link, but that is a link to the picture I promise... cut/paste it in to your browser address bar. 
LINK>>> db.tt/xp4C9xqv

I also put the picture in my user gallery.


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## 67stang

anyone alive in here??


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## tetonrider

67stang said:


> Wow what a relevant thread.. Just this Weekend I had a SRAM red groupo installed on my 2011 roubaix sl3 pro. Previously it had an older 105 groupo and so only the brake cable routed under the bar tape. Now with both brake and shift cables under the bar tape I am OCDing a bit on whether my mechanic did the routing correctly. He chose the SRAM cable positions where the cables run front and behind the bar, so you get the lump being the hoods... I'll have to get used to that. The bar tops feel lame to me with all that cable under the tape.. But anyway, that's something I can adapt to I assume.
> 
> I am more concerned about the shift cables not doing the California cross... Does it matter?
> 
> Does this look ok to you?
> db.tt/xp4C9xqv


does your bike shift properly? can you turn the bars fully in either direction without binding? then it doesn't matter.

cable routing is largely a matter of style and preference as long as you meet the above criteria. if you don't trust your mechanic on something as simple as this (if he works in a shop he does tons of these), then it's time to learn to do it yourself. it's pretty trivial. then you can experiment and see what method you prefer.


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## 67stang

tetonrider said:


> does your bike shift properly? can you turn the bars fully in either direction without binding? then it doesn't matter.
> 
> cable routing is largely a matter of style and preference as long as you meet the above criteria. if you don't trust your mechanic on something as simple as this (if he works in a shop he does tons of these), then it's time to learn to do it yourself. it's pretty trivial. then you can experiment and see what method you prefer.


Well I understand your point but disagree slightly - "does it shift properly" is subjective. The point of this thread by the original poster wasnt just to get some cables installed but to solicit input on whether they are routed in a best practice sort of way. That's the input I'm looking for...looking at the pic I posted, do any flaws jump out? 
As for my mechanic, well trust me he hasn't done thousands of these, I doubt most mechanics have done thousands of specialized internally routed cables... And that's why I presume we have an Internet forum dedicated to each mfg...


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## tetonrider

67stang said:


> Well I understand your point but disagree slightly - "does it shift properly" is subjective. The point of this thread by the original poster wasnt just to get some cables installed but to solicit input on whether they are routed in a best practice sort of way. That's the input I'm looking for...looking at the pic I posted, do any flaws jump out?
> As for my mechanic, well trust me he hasn't done thousands of these, I doubt most mechanics have done thousands of specialized internally routed cables... And that's why I presume we have an Internet forum dedicated to each mfg...


california cross is subjective. 

the original post was actually about the hidden part.

your question is basically about general cable routing. 

i'd say 'shifting properly' is not subjective. either shifts are made or missed.

cabling a bike is cabling a bike. 

i'd encourage you to -- seriously, not in a tongue-in-cheek way -- think about my prior post. we cannot determine how your bike shifts and brakes and whether or not your cables bind. if you spend a moment thinking it through, you'll quickly see if anything is wrong. it's a simple job to fix it if something is wrong, then you'll never rely on a mechanic who has no more experience than you do with something.

not being a jerk here, but you've basically got all the info in front of you.

also, on specialized's site they post the manuals for these bikes. they talk about routing in there. do a quick check on specialized.com and you'll get some great info. look for the PDFs. i think there is a specific one for the roubaix's internal routing, but if you find the one for the tarmac and/or venge it's the same thing.


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## roadworthy

67stang said:


> anyone alive in here??


I agree with tetonrider. Not sure what you are asking. I am the OP and created ths thread. If the bike shifts fine then stick with what you have. You do NOT have California Cross routing...you have same side routing. This may or may not impede best shifting. Sram may in fact be less sensitive to internal cable drag because Sram has higher derailleur spring forces. If your bike shifts poorly, I suggest you change it. Otherwise stick with it. Aesthetically I don't think your routing looks that great but I have seen worse. As to the bump under the hood...believe I have read in other forums this is resolvable with a bit of foam padding. If you want further advice, then pull up the shifter hood boot and take a picture of the bump exposed and post it in your gallery.
Good luck.


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## 67stang

I'm aware I don't have Cal.Cross... I was simple asking if, based on viewing the picture I supplied, you had an opinion on whether 1) I should have routed cal.cross style, and 2) if you saw anything with the cable routing that looked off, incorrect etc. If you scroll up back in March both you guys had plenty to say when RKFast posted similar pic of his cable routing... :?

anyways, no worries...


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## roadworthy

67stang said:


> I'm aware I don't have Cal.Cross... I was simple asking if, based on viewing the picture I supplied, you had an opinion on whether 1) I should have routed cal.cross style, and 2) if you saw anything with the cable routing that looked off, incorrect etc. If you scroll up back in March both you guys had plenty to say when RKFast posted similar pic of his cable routing... :?
> 
> anyways, no worries...


Well...my personal position is, Specialized made a change to the California Cross for a reason. In theory smoother cable radii reduces internal cable drag and optimizes shift quality. In addition, I believe the Cal Cross is more pleasing to the eye...it looks better.
I am a fussy tech head. I never let anybody work on my bikes...ever. So me...I would redo the cables of your shifters...brake routing looks OK. So it depends in part how fussy you are. If the shift quality is OK...the bike shifts positively, then only reason to change would be appearance. So your decision is between you and your bike shop if you don't do the work. Keep in mind, Specialized dropped the Cal cross in the laps of local bike shops. It is a fair amount of work to properly install cables on an internally routed bike...involving redo of bar tape to the shifts etc. For those that do the work, a tip is...when rerouting and sizing shift cables is...for example if you change your stem length by 20mm or increase rise on the stem for more comfort, use the rear internal cable for the front derailleur. This reduces cost. Then you only need one extra long cable and some housing which you can buy in bulk. So you don't need a full new cable kit...no need. Further I ride a big bike and need a long rear derailleur cable for a nice loop in back for low shifting drag. Again, I am fussy. So I order a 2300mm Jagwire Ripcord teflon coated cable because Campy only makes them 2000mm which is too short for a XL Roubaix with tall head tube if you want to run a nice full loop in back. All this stuff is how particular you are and where you want to take it.

Hope that helps and enjoy the bike.


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## 67stang

roadworthy - thanks, I appreciate that input. I was a bike mechanic in highschool and college, back in the 90's while I raced juniors and collegiate - so working on bikes isn't new to me, but the technology these days is! It makes sense about saving cable costs, using the long rear for the front, yup I remember such tips. 

Probably the biggest thing I'm getting up to speed on is the sram shifter cable routing options, and the internal routing on the spec frame. Obviously with CA Cross you need to cross the cables back over inside the down tube, right? How do you know you haven't wound the cable up in there - e.g. crossed it over 3 times? I suppose if you activate one lever and see the other cable being yanked, that would tell you... 

anyways, thanks for the info, the bike shifts well - WAY better than the 105 group that it replaced.


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## tetonrider

when you remove the cable, attach an old cable (or string) securely to the end of the cable you're pulling such that you'll be able to then use it as a guide for inserting the new cable.

attach end of new cable to old cable/string and pull the string through.

you'd have to try very hard to get them to cross more than once.


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## roadworthy

67stang said:


> roadworthy - thanks, I appreciate that input. I was a bike mechanic in highschool and college, back in the 90's while I raced juniors and collegiate - so working on bikes isn't new to me, but the technology these days is! It makes sense about saving cable costs, using the long rear for the front, yup I remember such tips.
> 
> Probably the biggest thing I'm getting up to speed on is the sram shifter cable routing options, and the internal routing on the spec frame. Obviously with CA Cross you need to cross the cables back over inside the down tube, right? How do you know you haven't wound the cable up in there - e.g. crossed it over 3 times? I suppose if you activate one lever and see the other cable being yanked, that would tell you...
> 
> anyways, thanks for the info, the bike shifts well - WAY better than the 105 group that it replaced.


The way I would play it if the bike shifts good...wait till coldest part of winter to tear it down and re-route the cables. This gives you a large window to work on the bike and no rush if you need cables or other parts. Incorporate it into your maintenance schedule. What I do is pull the cranks and the headset off the bike every winter to inspect bearings and regrease. I recable and/or change bar tape then...clean the cassette...and maybe take off the rear cassette and hub for clean and regrease...change tires if needed etc....general maintenance. With the internet you really have all the info at your disposal...and this forum is a great reference for other's perspective and moral support. Park's site is a treasure trove of info for bike mechanics. The more you can rely on your own wrenching skills, the better you will be. Figure if you get something wrong you can't fix, you can always take the bike to the shop to make it right...but you won't have to with your background. The reason I put this thread out was to debunk any concern about recabling a bike with hidden routing which will likely be the future for most high end bikes with carbon tubes. Electric shifting will be accomplished by routing wires versus cables internally as well.

As to the internal wrapping of cables inside the down tube...a good question. If you have one cable routed and insert a single sleeve...pick them up from your bike shop...basically a long narrow straw that threads over the cable...or use the string method that Teton suggested...cable sleeves are supplied with framesets from Specialized...when you thread the sleeve into the downtube without tension you can remove the cable guide plate under the BB and peer inside the downtube and see the cables. Not too hard to ensure they aren't wrapped in there.
To me...working on the bike and tuning it to perfection is part of the fun of bike ownership...and swapping out parts to make it your own. At the end of the day, bikes are just parts and not very difficult. Have fun.
Pic below when I recently pulled my front fork to shorten the steerer a bit more.
PS. I have now gone to just one in line cable adjuster for the front derailleur only. I adjust rear derailleur cable tension back on the derailleur. I haven't touched it since I recabled the bike and it shifts flawlessly.
Cheers.


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## TrojanHorse

Well, I fretted and fretted last night and cabled everything up, then somebody directed me to this post and I undid everything, trimmed the shifter housings a bit more and went Ca Cross on my bike (looks better if nothing else). Good tip on shining a flashlight up into the down tube, I was pretty easily able to see I only crossed the cables once.

Now I just need to tune the derailleurs and go ride this thing.

PS the sheaths that the former owner reinstalled before shipping me the bike made a huge difference, although I think fishing the shifter cables wouldn't be that hard with the size of the hole near the BB.

:thumbsup:


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## jokingjs

View attachment 280318

Just wanted to say thanks for this thread and all the valuable input and tips - it really gave me direction and confidence when routing the cables on my new bike (first time I assembled a full bike from scratch) - came out pretty good I think and rides like a charm.


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## terryh

Thanks Roadworthy for your excellent advice on here. The gearchanging on my 2012 Roubaix was appalling so re-cabled per your instructions; improvement is huge.

Only issue I had, being a Brit, was how to deal with the brakes being set up UK style, ie rear with front derailleur. Have swapped these around, no scary moments (yet)


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## roadworthy

I received a pretty in depth PM from a '12 Roubaix owner with Ultegra 6700 and thought it best to share his good questions with the forum and come back to this thread which I created a while back to help others with their cable routing on these bikes with hidden routing.

I will preface and say there is a trend in the industry with balky shifting when it comes to hidden routing and many times has nothing to do with how the cable is threaded through the frame but rather an indictment against both DA 7900 and Ultegra 6700 which Shimano has resolved with their new DA 9000 and Ultegra 6800, both 11s, but more importantly a complete redesign with revised cable pull ratios and spring rates which now overcome any residual friction within the contact points with the frame. Both Campy and Sram haven't had this same issue with SL3 bikes with hidden routing for the simple reason that derailleur spring rates are higher. Shimano has now atoned for their poor design which has plagued many that have owned their groupsets. This was not a problem on the previous version of Shimano either when cables were routed outside the handlebar tape which had lower friction. DA7800 was the gold standard in great shifting and the good mojo is back with DA9000.

Also it has come to my attention per Joe from Specialized now gracing the forum with his knowledge...that Specialized hasn't been real keen on their ICR port orientation of the SL3 which 'may' introduce a hint of friction at the ICR entry points to the downtube of the frame. He has stated that a fix is in the offing, so my suggestion to those that are still stuck in the mud on this issue is, contact Joe for an ETA of the revised ICR port kit for these frames. If you think about it there should be no reason for any increase in friction due to the SL3 frameset. There are only three pts of contact to the frameset...where the cable enters the downtube...under the BB where cable guide touches the cables and out the right chainstay on the drive side where the rear derailleur cable loop attaches. This is no different than externally routed cable bikes. But Joe suggests that the entry point angle creates some modest friction which I believe was resolved on SL4 bikes with redesigned ICR ports now integrated into the downtube without little covers and set screws.

So on to the good questions posed by in the PM including my responses:

Spec.: 2012 Specialized Roubaix Expert Compact – 52cm and full ultegra.

Questions:
1) Do you still recommend using inline barrel adjuster for the rear derailleur? My current setup does have shift issues with traditional routing. It was never smooth since new. All routing cables were stock and came with 2 adjusters for each shifter.

*Ans:* I personally don't recommend an inline barrel adjuster for the rear derailleur. This is personal preference only. One for aesthetics....and two for reduced cable friction to the rear derailleur which is always more sensitive to lazy shifting based upon cable friction versus a front derailleur which has a much higher spring rate. Other reason is, with proper set up, you should virtually never have to touch the tune of the rear derailleur and if you do, you can tweak it at the back of the bike by rolling the rear derailleur barrel connector a quarter turn either way. I will say this about the front derailleur. It is absolutely critical to run an in line barrel adjuster for the front derailleur. Some of course will not.  This is because far and away the trickier derailleur to dial in perfectly is the front derailleur....to minimize cage rub in all X-chain scenarios and of course the FD does not have a barrel adjuster at the derailleur attachment unlike the RD.. Optimized shifting in front is based upon cage alignment, inboard/outboard stop positions, but moreover, cable tension which affects trim detent positions for the shifter click(s). There is black art associated with a perfect shifting front derailleur and a good wrench will spend more than a few minutes tweaking it on a bike stand for perfect shifting. Rear derailleurs by contrast are much easier to set up although they can be plagued by lazy *up* shifting (*down* the cassette) due to excessive cable friction aggravated by poor cable routing.



2) What’s the best location to route shifting cables? In front of handle bar and line up next to the brake cables or let shifting cables go under the handle bar?

*Ans:* After many bike builds and a lot of time out on the road, for me there is no contest. Route all cables in front of the handlebar. This is partly due to aesthetics but not even close for hand comfort. When routing derailleur cables around the back of the handlebar, the cable invariably interfaces with the outboard base of the hand which affects sensitive ulnar nerve pressure....the leading contributor to hand nerve damage which riding a bike. Therefore I always route cables to the inside for the cleanest contact of the base of the palm to the handlebar and hoods. Some will argue that routing the cables to the inside will increase cable friction due to tighter radii. In my experience this is nebulous compared the benefit of improved hand ergonomics.


3) Any recommendation to route front or rear shifting cable to be in front of each other before they enter the down tube? 

Ans: This a little zen like.  There is a metaphor in electricity for example and btw there are many mathematical analogies between electrical and mechanical systems. In electricity, it is always....current likes to travel the path of least resistance. And cables prefer this path as well as it turns out.  Below you will see a couple of pics of my Campy bike which includes California Cross which btw is based upon this thesis. California cross effectively lowers internal cable friction because it represents the smoothest possible cable routing...and routing the cable on opposite side of the head tube also changes ICR cable entry angle which affects cable friction at this junction resulting in cable converging and crossing inside the downtube. I show my derailleur cables unattached to distinguish them from brake cables. Note that the front brake cable is the most forward positioned cable.


4) Any recommendation to have front or rear shifting cable being on the top of the other cable, so it minimize their contact in the down tube? 

*Ans:* Hopefully pics provided below will help clear this up. If not, let me know.

5) I bought SP-41 housing and paired with Dura Ace PTFE shifting cables for this rework. Do you recommend adding grease/lube in the housing, or I should just run it dry to attract less dirt. I have both Boeshield T-9 and Park Tools Grease. Which one would you pick if it’s needed for shift cables.

*Ans:* This is a personal decision as it turns out and you will get mixed opinions. If you add grease, my suggestion is only at the shifter mechanism interface up near the head of the cable. This is for the simple reason that cable and housing you have chosen are naturally lubricated and that grease tends to attract dirt/grit which impedes cable movement inside the housing over time. A sidebar is...new DA 9000 inner cables are quite slippery and will help with balky Ultegra 6700 shifting. Please note that the DA 9000 cables have identical SP-41 housing that you have chosen which btw is great housing and I even use it on Campy builds. 


If possible, can you send or attached few pictures of your Roubaix’s pictures, so I can use them as golden samples. I’m from bay area in CA, and there are many Specialized dealers and Specialized concept stores. Even with Specialized Headquarter is near by, I still can’t find right answers from LBS.

*Ans:* I hope the pics I provide show what you need. If not, I will try to get you pic of a localized area of the bike if you need more clarity.

Most of them wouldn’t want to re-route to California Cross and kept mentioning its minimal difference between the two setup. I’m picky on fine tuning the gears, and Roubaix is the first one I have problem with. I can't really endure these cable friction issue for another season. Your help is very much appreciated and thank you in advance.

*Ans*: 
Unfortunately that is the sad reality in many cases. Really good mechanics are rare at bike shops in my experience. Keep in mind, they maybe better than you know. But they don't have the time or just aren't inclined to set up the average customer's bike perfectly. Their bikes may shift perfect.  but lots of bad shifting bikes on the road for sure.


A last note about shifting on your bike. Me personally in your shoes? I would strip your Ultegra 6700 off the bike and ebay it as down payment on new Ultegra 6800 which is head and shoulders better in every metric from ergonomics to shift performance in terms of crisp shifting and shorter lever throw. I have owned DA 7900 which is the basically the same of what you have it is universally awful and new Shimano is great...in fact I have DA 9000 on deck for a new bike build. ...gathering parts now.

Let me know if I can help further.


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## George M

I hear all of this bad talk about Ultegra 6700, so I talked to several people about this, so called problem and nobody knows anything about it. I'm not having any problems with mine. I just put new cables on my bike and it shifts as smooth as it did before installing the new cables.


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## roadworthy

George M said:


> I hear all of this bad talk about Ultegra 6700, so I talked to several people about this, so called problem and nobody knows anything about it. I'm not having any problems with mine. I just put new cables on my bike and it shifts as smooth as it did before installing the new cables.


Glad yours is working out. I do hear your refrain once in a while. To me is akin to an automotive expert going out and driving a single car in a comparison test and giving it a glowing report. Or a man who thinks he is married to the best women on the planet who has never dated.  Perspective comes from experience. If you haven't built different bikes with different groupsets, then you just don't know what good is. Another way of putting it is...ignorance is bliss...no doubt you have heard that cliché. 
So glad you like your Ultegra 6700. Ultegra 6800 may go down as perhaps the best value groupset in history and likely 6700, the worst. Btw, new Force 22 is great as well. Its a good argument whether either are as good as Campy Centaur...but some will say they are even better. A tough call.
Have fun.


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## George M

So what's so bad about it?

I should have added the other people I talked to were mechanics at different bike shops and other people that ride using that Ultegra 6700. So I guess were all pretty ignorant around here.


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## roadworthy

George M said:


> So what's so bad about it?
> 
> I should have added the other people I talked to were mechanics at different bike shops and other people that ride using that Ultegra 6700. So I guess were all pretty ignorant around here.


If you haven't test ridden the new stuff...stop in at your local shop and give it a whirl.
Also, lots of reviews on the web comparing what you have to Shimano's new 11s groupsets and how they revised it. New Shimano mechanical groupsets are a clean sheet redesign....all new parts...fresh tooling.


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## George M

I just got back from doing a search and your probably right, but to me, mine is fine. Shimano or Sram or Campy will keep changing just to keep you biting. After a lot of years of riding rice burners I quit that game they play. I wonder what it will be next year. Don't care.


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## roadworthy

George M said:


> I just got back from doing a search and your probably right, but to me, mine is fine. Shimano or Sram or Campy will keep changing just to keep you biting. After a lot of years of riding rice burners I quit that game they play. I wonder what it will be next year. Don't care.


Maybe you don't care, but your argument is silly. Let's take the bike you ride...a late model Roubaix. The bike debuted 10 years ago and was nothing like the bike it has evolved to by a series of technical improvements over time...many developed by the crucible of racing. This bike design which didn't exist prior transformed the road bike market with plethora of endurance geometries now on the market which best serve most recreational riders. That bike you own is head and shoulders above early generations of the Roubaix in every respect. So you say you don't care...but every single facet of bicycle design has evolved a lot in the last 10-20 years. New tech is remarkable and just continues to improve. If you don't care, then just go back in time and pick up a bike to ride at the local yard sale...lol.
Forgive me, but you have come here and say you don't care. The guys that come to this thread for help...read through it...do care. So maybe you should start another thread for your point of view.


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## George M

Meaning that I don't care is that I'm a few months short of 74 years old. I don't need anything newer.


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## roadworthy

George M said:


> Meaning that I don't care is that I'm a few months short of 74 years old. I don't need anything newer.


You should be on a Venge S-works with Zipps


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## George M

roadworthy said:


> You should be on a Venge S-works with Zipps


That is a pretty bike. I like the black with the green strip.


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## roadworthy

George M said:


> That is a pretty bike. I like the black with the green strip.


Yes they are...very sweet.


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## jsheu0407

Thank you so much for your detailed reply and your great suggestions.

Please see the picture I snipped from Specialized technical document:









My question number 3 was asking about the first cross in front of handle bar and question number 4 was about the cross inside of the down tube. From the attached picture above (top view), is front or rear shift cable on top of the other cable? Same question goes to the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP]cross inside of the down tube. Which shift cable is on top of the other? Or, does it really matter? 

From what I’m thinking, rear shifting cable should be on top of the front shifting cable, inside the down tube since rear shift cable get to slack more often than front. That way, when rear shift cable is pulled to bigger gears, both cables should be tensioned and minimized contact (inside of down tube).

I'm going to spend some time to do some real routing, so I don't have to imagine based on technical document. I'm still at planning stage, and bike just got put on the stand.


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## roadworthy

jsheu0407 said:


> Thank you so much for your detailed reply and your great suggestions.
> 
> Please see the picture I snipped from Specialized technical document:
> 
> View attachment 293698
> 
> 
> My question number 3 was asking about the first cross in front of handle bar and question number 4 was about the cross inside of the down tube. From the attached picture above (top view), is front or rear shift cable on top of the other cable? Same question goes to the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP]cross inside of the down tube. Which shift cable is on top of the other? Or, does it really matter?
> 
> From what I’m thinking, rear shifting cable should be on top of the front shifting cable, inside the down tube since rear shift cable get to slack more often than front. That way, when rear shift cable is pulled to bigger gears, both cables should be tensioned and minimized contact (inside of down tube).
> 
> I'm going to spend some time to do some real routing, so I don't have to imagine based on technical document. I'm still at planning stage, and bike just got put on the stand.


You know what they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.  It is now more clear what you asking. A good question and no doubt contemplated by many that install California Cross cable routing. As you suspected, it doesn't matter. If you study and measure the frame, downtube ICR entry points and BB cable guide contact points have the identical vertical orientation.
But to satisfy your curiosity, you can perform the following if really want the bottom line.
Thread derailleur cables through both ICR downtube entry points and run them through the window opening under the BB. Invert the frame and set it on its handlebar shifter hoods and saddle like a tripod. Remove the lower cable guide which is two pieces. This allows a less encumbered look through the window under the frame into the down tube. Take a flash light and peer through the little window and you should be able to see where the cables cross if you apply tension. You will have to replicate where the cables would attach to the cable guide to reproduce their orientation when cables are fully installed.

I know you are particular, so if you perform this exercise, please come back to the thread and share your findings if you would.

As suggested, since you want to do a pristine, clean install of the cables, contact Joe from Specialized and see if his SL3 ICR updated kit is now available. If so, please share that information with the community here as I believe there would be a fair amount of interest including me. For example, if I recable my SL3 Roubaix, I would like to install the updated kit which according to Joe, slightly changes the angular orientation of the cables as they enter the downtube. This reduces potential friction at the ICR interface which captures and locates the end of the cable housing. I know you are an engineer, and my strong guess is, Specialized engineering discovered these friction point(s) by performing CAD studies which shows the existing cable housing attachment angle is not optimal, i.e. the cable centerline from the BB guide is not co-linear with the ICR port centerline when cables are taut. I hope this makes sense. This can be corrected with a change to ICR port covers which have a distinct 3D cable angle casted into the little metal covers.
Hope that helps and please let me know if I can help further.


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## jsheu0407

A belated update for my “California Crossing” adventure! First of all, big thanks to Roadworthy’s help on his write up and tips to make these possible. Long story short, I’ll share my findings and experiences in the following:

1) Inline barrel adjust for rear derailleur: No. There’s no need for that and thanks to Roadworthy confirming that. The cable tension adjust on RD-6700 is great and accurate enough to fine tune shifting issue.
2) Shifter Cable Routing on handlebar: Inner vs. outer cable guide on ultegra shifter body. Specialized video recommends the following route from the outer cable guide. In theory, it gives bigger turning radius to reduce friction. Please see attached below: (Routing Method 1 / Official Specialized Video)







However, if inner cable guide is used to route in front of handlebar, I found it to be the smoothest run for cable routing and shift cable needs to be on top of brake cable. Please see the attached picture below: (Routing Method 2 / S-works review on YouTube)







It’s the best routing illustrated in the picture above (Routing Method 2), but I took the official specialized route (Routing Method 1), instead. By routing from the outer cable guide (outer corner of the handlebar) and run straight under the handle bar after turning, it gave the same smooth routing angle entering the down tube, and it also eliminate the possibility on how shift cables binds on stem bolts shown in the picture above. In my experiment, Routing Method 2 wrap on part of stem bolt and made the “click” sound when sweeping one side of 90 degree angle test and vice versa (sweeping 180 degree angle from side to side). While trying to maintain 0 cable rubbing on any object and same routing angle to enter down tube (when looking from the side view, see picture below), it’s hard to avoid hitting stem bolt and having that instant binding moment.







The picture above also shows how shift cables enter the down tube and their relative location to BB’s cable guides. Both cables entered the down tube at a slight angle that’s almost parallel to the down tube and aimed at the BB’s cable guide. (The bike is parked at an angle and picture didn’t come out what I was trying to explain. I hope that idea still can get across to readers.)

Original question 3 & 4 are combined in findings below: (Re-attached picture below to explain my findings)







Does it really matter how front and rear shifter cables cross each other? Which side of shift cable should be on top or bottom? (Thanks to Roadworthy again for his tip, so we can see how cables interact with each other in the down tube.) Based on what I peeked inside of the down tube from BB, it doesn’t really matter. No matter how cables are routed on top or bottom of each other, these 2 cables touch right away when tension applies.

One tip based on how I routed, keep the same cable on top before and after it entered the down tube, vice versa. Originally, I was thinking to keep rear derailleur cable on top of the front derailleur cable. In the end, I routed rear derailleur cable at the bottom of the front derailleur cable before and after it entered the down tube. The reason behind that is: how often that front or rear shift cable is tensioned. I use large ring at front most of time, so the front shift cable is tensioned most of time. While rear derailleur gets to be shifted all the time, the rear shifter cable can be relaxed a bit when small cog is used (less tensioned/touching/binding). Basically, minimize the pressure when these 2 cables touch each other. There’s a way to get rid of that completely in theory, and I’ll add that into later comment for Specialize Joe.

My original question #5 is covered well by Roadworthy. SP-41 housing paired with Dura Ace PTFE shifting cables work great together. I did add Boeshield T9 at BB’s cable guide and few other cable entry and exit points.

Couple of suggestions for Specialized development team or Specialized Joe:
1) BB cable guide: My Roubaix Expert came with cable guide below, and I think it’s the updated kit.







From the picture above, the crossed cable in the down tube can be offset easily by having different depth in the grooves. If the grooves’ depth is offset (differed) by 2mm or so, the crossed cables inside the down tube will not touch each other when routed properly. Homemade version can be implemented by shimming them properly to have the same effects.

2) Dust Cover for BB cable guide: My lovely wife cut nice template and made a nice plastic cover as dust cover. The tongue is inserted into the square opening at front and plastic cover is bolted down along with cable guide to secure the dust cover in place. Small mod will keep the dirt out for a longer while and ensure smooth shifting performance. Please see below.







Oh, 90 % of my bike is covered by 3M’s VentureShield™ Paint Protection Film (transparent car bra?). I’m little or…too picky on all my hobbies I love. Computers, Bike and Golf, etc…err.

So, what’s the end result of all [email protected]#$%@...













A very very smooth and quiet shifting bike that performs amazingly well. 2012 Roubaix SL3 w/ Fact10R is my definite choice. I’m just an average person who loves to work on bikes and hobbies, etc. I choose comfort, long head tube over aggressive geometry bikes. I will add another race like road bike down the road, just for the sake of having different feel. But, this 2012 SL3’s geometry is definitely my keeper for good for life. It’s so comfortable and can ride for long time without feeling tired.

At last, thanks again to Roadworthy. + rep! And, I hope Specialized Joe gets to read the suggestions above, I certainly wouldn’t mind driving 25 min to Specialized HQ at Morgan Hill and give our Taiwanese Merida a call on the cable guide and BB dust cover. I’m pretty sure they can do a much better job than my homemade version. In addition, that’s another update kit and/or accessory for little more business^^. 

Enjoy and Good day, all!


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## roadworthy

jsheu0407 said:


> A belated update for my “California Crossing” adventure! First of all, big thanks to Roadworthy’s help on his write up and tips to make these possible. Long story short, I’ll share my findings and experiences in the following:
> 
> 1) Inline barrel adjust for rear derailleur: No. There’s no need for that and thanks to Roadworthy confirming that. The cable tension adjust on RD-6700 is great and accurate enough to fine tune shifting issue.
> 2) Shifter Cable Routing on handlebar: Inner vs. outer cable guide on ultegra shifter body. Specialized video recommends the following route from the outer cable guide. In theory, it gives bigger turning radius to reduce friction. Please see attached below: (Routing Method 1 / Official Specialized Video)
> View attachment 293948
> 
> However, if inner cable guide is used to route in front of handlebar, I found it to be the smoothest run for cable routing and shift cable needs to be on top of brake cable. Please see the attached picture below: (Routing Method 2 / S-works review on YouTube)
> View attachment 293949
> 
> It’s the best routing illustrated in the picture above (Routing Method 2), but I took the official specialized route (Routing Method 1), instead. By routing from the outer cable guide (outer corner of the handlebar) and run straight under the handle bar after turning, it gave the same smooth routing angle entering the down tube, and it also eliminate the possibility on how shift cables binds on stem bolts shown in the picture above. In my experiment, Routing Method 2 wrap on part of stem bolt and made the “click” sound when sweeping one side of 90 degree angle test and vice versa (sweeping 180 degree angle from side to side). While trying to maintain 0 cable rubbing on any object and same routing angle to enter down tube (when looking from the side view, see picture below), it’s hard to avoid hitting stem bolt and having that instant binding moment.
> View attachment 293950
> 
> The picture above also shows how shift cables enter the down tube and their relative location to BB’s cable guides. Both cables entered the down tube at a slight angle that’s almost parallel to the down tube and aimed at the BB’s cable guide. (The bike is parked at an angle and picture didn’t come out what I was trying to explain. I hope that idea still can get across to readers.)
> 
> Original question 3 & 4 are combined in findings below: (Re-attached picture below to explain my findings)
> View attachment 293951
> 
> Does it really matter how front and rear shifter cables cross each other? Which side of shift cable should be on top or bottom? (Thanks to Roadworthy again for his tip, so we can see how cables interact with each other in the down tube.) Based on what I peeked inside of the down tube from BB, it doesn’t really matter. No matter how cables are routed on top or bottom of each other, these 2 cables touch right away when tension applies.
> 
> One tip based on how I routed, keep the same cable on top before and after it entered the down tube, vice versa. Originally, I was thinking to keep rear derailleur cable on top of the front derailleur cable. In the end, I routed rear derailleur cable at the bottom of the front derailleur cable before and after it entered the down tube. The reason behind that is: how often that front or rear shift cable is tensioned. I use large ring at front most of time, so the front shift cable is tensioned most of time. While rear derailleur gets to be shifted all the time, the rear shifter cable can be relaxed a bit when small cog is used (less tensioned/touching/binding). Basically, minimize the pressure when these 2 cables touch each other. There’s a way to get rid of that completely in theory, and I’ll add that into later comment for Specialize Joe.
> 
> My original question #5 is covered well by Roadworthy. SP-41 housing paired with Dura Ace PTFE shifting cables work great together. I did add Boeshield T9 at BB’s cable guide and few other cable entry and exit points.
> 
> Couple of suggestions for Specialized development team or Specialized Joe:
> 1) BB cable guide: My Roubaix Expert came with cable guide below, and I think it’s the updated kit.
> View attachment 293952
> 
> From the picture above, the crossed cable in the down tube can be offset easily by having different depth in the grooves. If the grooves’ depth is offset (differed) by 2mm or so, the crossed cables inside the down tube will not touch each other when routed properly. Homemade version can be implemented by shimming them properly to have the same effects.
> 
> 2) Dust Cover for BB cable guide: My lovely wife cut nice template and made a nice plastic cover as dust cover. The tongue is inserted into the square opening at front and plastic cover is bolted down along with cable guide to secure the dust cover in place. Small mod will keep the dirt out for a longer while and ensure smooth shifting performance. Please see below.
> View attachment 293953
> 
> Oh, 90 % of my bike is covered by 3M’s VentureShield™ Paint Protection Film (transparent car bra?). I’m little or…too picky on all my hobbies I love. Computers, Bike and Golf, etc…err.
> 
> So, what’s the end result of all [email protected]#$%@...
> View attachment 293954
> View attachment 293955
> 
> A very very smooth and quiet shifting bike that performs amazingly well. 2012 Roubaix SL3 w/ Fact10R is my definite choice. I’m just an average person who loves to work on bikes and hobbies, etc. I choose comfort, long head tube over aggressive geometry bikes. I will add another race like road bike down the road, just for the sake of having different feel. But, this 2012 SL3’s geometry is definitely my keeper for good for life. It’s so comfortable and can ride for long time without feeling tired.
> 
> At last, thanks again to Roadworthy. + rep! And, I hope Specialized Joe gets to read the suggestions above, I certainly wouldn’t mind driving 25 min to Specialized HQ at Morgan Hill and give our Taiwanese Merida a call on the cable guide and BB dust cover. I’m pretty sure they can do a much better job than my homemade version. In addition, that’s another update kit and/or accessory for little more business^^.
> 
> Enjoy and Good day, all!


I will say...a brilliant write up and so glad you came along and contributed your analytical mind to this thread. Thank you. This is how a knowledge base is grown as you know.
A couple of brief points. Yes...let's get Specialized Joe in the loop. It is quite possible he doesn't read all the threads on the message board. I mentioned to you that Specialized has been working on an updated ICR kit for SL3 owners. I admit to being surprised that Specialized would be working on this because the SL4 has replaced the SL3 with its screw on ICR covers...but that is what Joe stated. So I suggest you contact Joe via PM and link your post and ask him when the kit will be available to the public. This is good to know for all SL3 owners including me.

Let's examine the reason why this matters. Keep in mind that California Cross for Specialized was a bit of an after thought. Yes, sometimes invention as you know comes at the least expected times and many times due to a problem or issue. Specialized released the California Cross spec to the public after SL3 bikes were designed and shipped to bike shops. So original intent was never to cross the cables inside the downtube causing any interference issues between front and rear derailleur cables you adroitly studied. It was obviously determined by Specialized engineering that the negative of having one derailleur cable tension affect shifting and index position (cable length difference) of the other derailleur to be a better alternative than the increased cable tension by tighter radii of same side head tube cable routing. No question this was their calculus as I am sure you understand. 

So...how to make it more perfect? There are two ways as you touched upon:
1. Change the ICR entry point/angle into the down tube for both derailleur cable/housings. Ideally stagger on opposing down tube sides the relative position of each ICR port to further separate cable crossing within the downtube.

2. Tweak cable guide position of each cable (under the BB)...either in height or distance apart. (what you suggested in your post)

My interpretation is...Specialized is addressing this precise issue with their updated ICR kit and why I suggest you contact Joe via PM and ask him specifically if the new kit will address cable cross/tension dependence within the downtube. Yes, in an ideal world Specialized would have baked in staggered ICR downtube port position in their downtube with the intent of crossing the cables within the downtube however this did not happen as your study revealed...cables do touch when tensioned which can affects cable length of either/both derailleur cables. After discussion with Joe, please come back and share your fndings if you would.

A last note. My suggestion is...as time permits...strip off Ultegra 6700 and ebay it and replace it with new Ultegra 6800. Ribble out of the UK has great prices on new Ultegra and it is light years ahead of old 6700 and works much better with under handlebar tape routing and is completely insensitive to tighter radii cable routing. With what used prices go for on ebay and new prices are out of Ribble, this won't cost you much more than your time and for bike junkies like us, it is time doing what we love.

Thanks again.
PS: do you have a good cost effective supplier for 3M’s VentureShield?


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## jsheu0407

Roadworthy, thank you for your kind words and tips as always. 

3m Scotchgard 84906 Urethane Paint Protection Film Strip, 84" Length x 6" Width. It also comes in few different width & length. I got mine from Amazon by that time, and eBay also has quite a few vendors. That’s what I used mainly along w/ other pieces in difference cut out and sizes. It’s quite a bit of work, especially on the curves and corners. Car’s engine hood would be much easier after I finished putting this film on my Roubaix. 

I’m checking w/ Joe and see what’s going on with ICR update kit. Other than that, Ultegra 6800 is really really tempting. I’ll need to change my wheelset though. My stock wheel DT Axis 3.0 can’t be used w/ 11 speed, and WH-6800 seems great. 

There’re other alternatives to go w/ Di2, SRAM Red/Force 22 & Campy. I’m spending time to study about these first. I checked Ribble earlier and it’s out of stock. I did find Planet Cyclery in Colorado have very good pricing on groupset as well. It’s always fun to work on bike, and that’s what I enjoy the most. Road bikes are still pretty new to me. I worked on MTB, its forks & shocks, etc before. I got into road bikes last year, and I enjoy them more than mtb now. Until later, I’ll need to do more homework on these parts’ review.


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## roadworthy

jsheu0407 said:


> Roadworthy, thank you for your kind words and tips as always.
> 
> 3m Scotchgard 84906 Urethane Paint Protection Film Strip, 84" Length x 6" Width. It also comes in few different width & length. I got mine from Amazon by that time, and eBay also has quite a few vendors. That’s what I used mainly along w/ other pieces in difference cut out and sizes. It’s quite a bit of work, especially on the curves and corners. Car’s engine hood would be much easier after I finished putting this film on my Roubaix.
> 
> I’m checking w/ Joe and see what’s going on with ICR update kit. Other than that, Ultegra 6800 is really really tempting. I’ll need to change my wheelset though. My stock wheel DT Axis 3.0 can’t be used w/ 11 speed, and WH-6800 seems great.
> 
> There’re other alternatives to go w/ Di2, SRAM Red/Force 22 & Campy. I’m spending time to study about these first. I checked Ribble earlier and it’s out of stock. I did find Planet Cyclery in Colorado have very good pricing on groupset as well. It’s always fun to work on bike, and that’s what I enjoy the most. Road bikes are still pretty new to me. I worked on MTB, its forks & shocks, etc before. I got into road bikes last year, and I enjoy them more than mtb now. Until later, I’ll need to do more homework on these parts’ review.


Appreciate the tip on the clear tape you use. I will order some shortly as I want to redo my Roubaix top tube. I use 2" framesaver tape sold by Colorado Cyclist. Because the top tube on our Roubaix's is so wide, I need to use two strips with seams on the side of the top tube which is less than ideal. So will order the 3M stuff to eliminate the seam on both sides.

As to groupsets moving forward, yes many options. I like to try new stuff. I just ordered some DA 9001 shifters and front derailleur and Ultegra other stuff to see if I prefer new Shimano 11s to Campy. I can adjust to differences in shifting...Campy is awesome...but am hyper fussy about hood and handlebar ergos. I like the feel of the new DA shifters in my hand but need to build them up and see how they feel on the road.

As to your wheelset, again, ebay is your friend....sell your wheelset and pick up a replacement for very little cost difference. You can fractionally upgrade your wheelset at the same time as you switch to 11s with a longer freehub. I just ordered a Fulcrum 5 wheelset from Ribble with 11s hub...Campy redesigned the Fulcrum 5 for 2014 and now they weigh 16xx grams and I have owned a few sets and they are fantastic for training. Can't beat them for the money and they are less than $300 shipped from Ribble. Because cassette spacing is virtually the same between Shimano and Campy 11s, my suggestion is order a Shimano 11s wheelset and even if you decide to run Campy 11s, you are good and have the benefit of low cost Ultegra cassettes.

I will give you another strategy. You can keep your current 10s wheelset with 11s Shimano. That's right. The way it works is...purchase an Ultegra 11s cassette...28-11 is a good choice and remove the 11t cog and use a 10s lockring and you are good. Lots of guys with high end 10s carbon wheelsets..this is popular among the TT crowd with their $2K deep V carbon wheels... doing this which allows transistion to 11s Shimano driveline with superior ergos and shift quality but keeps 10s in back.

A few different options. Please come back and share what you learn corresponding with Specialized Joe as many would be interested in the upgraded ICR kit for the SL3 bike including me if I swap groupsets.
Best Regards.


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## jsheu0407

Thanks for sharing your strategies upgrade path and tips on wheelset’s compatibility between 10s & 11s. Your reply above actually helped quite a few people who bear the compatibility questions in mind. I’m going with wheel first and group set later. As for the ICR kit update, I’ll include you in the loop after I get a reply from my PM.

Best Regards.


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## goodboyr

Here is the specific post on slowtwitch that describes the conversion. It has the necessary detail.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/cgi-bin/gforum.cgi?post=4907342#4907342


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## roadworthy

goodboyr said:


> Here is the specific post on slowtwitch that describes the conversion. It has the necessary detail.
> 
> FLO DISC with 11 speed?: Triathlon Forum: Slowtwitch Forums


Thanks goodboyr. FYI to those interested in running 11s Shimano driveline with 10s Shimano rear freehub width, goodboyr's link may indeed be the best way to do this versus my suggestion of dropping off the smallest cog and using a 10s lockring. It has been done the way I described but it may not be as solid as is proposed in goodboyr's link. So if pursuing this combination, be sure to consider removing the 16t cog from 11s cassette and rearranging spacers. This very well may be the best way to do it.


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