# Have you ever thought of giving up the road bike?



## trip221 (Oct 22, 2003)

Here in southern California it seems like people are getting critically injured or killed by cars left and right, at least once a month. I doesn’t matter if it’s an area with bad roads and no shoulder or a new community with wide bike lanes. It’s distracted drivers. Hell, even the local MUT isn’t safe with recent muggings and bike thefts. So as much as I love solo rides I’m only doing group rides now. And my extra cautious wife is paranoid every time I go out.

Has anyone else thought of giving up the road bike entirely? I love mountain biking too, and at least with that I feel that most of the burden of safety is on my own shoulders (except a possible mountain lion attack). But at least there won’t be any run-ins with cars. I still don’t think I could hang up the road bike for good, but it is something I think about on a weekly basis.


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## Mute (Dec 2, 2011)

I just about did for the past 18 years. Most of my biking have been off road. However, I have easier access to more bike friendly roads now and will be getting back on road more. I've had more than my fair share of close encounters with bad drivers but that's just L.A. life. Don't give up.


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

Nope.. I'll never give it up for any reason other than if I stop having fun and enjoying it. You could die walking in a parking lot while out getting groceries.. die getting your mail.. Slip in the shower. 

Life is a risk.. So you either live or die living.


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## pianopiano (Jun 4, 2005)

I'll never give up my road bike. I've been riding since 1984, and have to say that things are getting more hectic out on the roads. In fact, I got knocked off of my bike twice last year by crazy drivers, but I'm willing to accept the risks in order to do something that I love to do.


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## onespeed (Mar 21, 2002)

*Does riding fixed on the road count?*

I got tired of gears years back and after riding as a messenger for so long. 

I always said I would go back to gears after the weight of the geared bikes met the fixed gear models. 

That criteria has been achieved, but I dont have 2000-8000 to drop on a bike at the moment.


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## tystevens (Jul 10, 2008)

I have been thinking about it recently, especially after a conversation w/ my wife where she admitted that my commuting to/from work on the bike worries her more than I previously understood. Kinda like I gave up motorcycles when I got married and became a dad -- didn't seem like the risk was worth it anymore.

But it doesn't seem like lots of cyclists are getting hit by cars here in SLC. I believe my commuting and fun ride routes (usually from one suburb to another, as I don't work downtown) are about as safe as they can be, and in 4 years of commuting now, I've not really even had what I'd consider a "close call" w/ an automobile. So I'm not gonna give it up yet. But I do see some people riding downtown or other places and wonder what they are thinking.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Statistical misunderstanding, selection bias, paranoia.



> it seems like people are getting critically injured or killed by cars left and right, at least once a month


It only "seems like" it because you're looking for it. It's not that bad, and it probably hasn't actually gotten worse; in fact, it may be better.

Do you know how many people die in traffic accidents in the U.S. on an average day? Around a hundred. How many of those are on bicycles? one or two. In the whole country. And probably half of those are kids, riding with far less attention and skill than you use.

Think about the odds implied even by your perception. Southern California is a region with a population of more than ten million. There are probably tens of thousands of people who cycle more than once a week, and possibly hundreds of thousands who ride at least once every week or two. One death or serious injury per month? That's a very small number.

So on a broad statistical basis the chances of you getting hurt are pretty low. And you can (and almost certainly do already) improve those odds significantly. A skilled, attentive rider is even safer than the average. A significant number of those injured or killed riders did something careless. Certainly not all of them -- there are bad drivers that do things no one can avoid, but it's actually pretty rare to get caught up in something like that.

So I suggest we all try to get realistic about the risks and dial back the fear a little. Hone your skills, maintain your equipment, learn and employ good traffic techniques, pick your routes sensibly. If you do all that, the odds against getting hurt on the bike are probably better than your chances driving on the freeway.


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## ksm279 (Dec 23, 2007)

*Giving Up*

I sold my bike and did just that when my son was born in mid 2007. After moving from mtb to road 2 years prior, I thought that just getting back on the trails would be the safest bet. I'm certain that it was safer, but by February of 2008, I had ordered another road bike. For me mountain biking just did not provide the same enjoyment as going out and putting in the miles on an early morning. Also the drive to/from the trails took up an hour that I could have spent on the road bike right out my door!

I now have two boys and just rode my first century back in October, and plan on doing 2 or three this season.... but when I go out on a solo ride, i never entertain the notion that I could be hit at any moment, I just try to ride aware of my surroundings....I would say stick with it if you love it; if you find that the fear of what may happen is no longer making it fun, then it's time to try something different.


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## D&MsDad (Jul 17, 2007)

Even though I live just a 40 minute drive from NYC, I'm fortunate in having easy access to many low traffic, scenic local roads for riding. And, as others have stated, it is not clear that it is significantly riskier to ride a bike than to drive a car. Yes, you are more vulnerable to injury from other road users, but on the other hand your speed is much lower which makes injury less likely and less catastrophic. So, no, I've not thought about giving up road riding.

Of course, I can't speak to the conditions where you ride, so it is possible that if I rode where you do then I'd reach a different conclusion. You need to do what you think is the right thing for you.






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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

I've engaged in many risky sports and activities and basically accept the fact that I can (and have) get hurt. Luckily my wife has also engaged in a number of these, including being an avid road rider and motorcyclist, and is not risk averse to the point of stifling any of the activities I've wanted to engage in.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

I've been riding for 50 years. In the 90's and most of the 2000's I did mostly mountain bike and I enjoyed nipping in & out of town on trails. But the worst crash I ever had (road or mtb) was four years ago when I was on a wide piece of trail not 1/4 mile from my door. A loose dog came bolting out of tall grass at the side of the trail and I t-boned it at 18mph. I did a Superman imitation and went head-first through a large bush. I broke my carbon fork (mtb) and got a small branch impaled in my face. I could have broken my neck.

So even benign-looking trails aren't safe. Before and after that I came across many loose dogs on the signposted trails. The landowners of the trail area (our municipality) just shrug their shoulders and tell me the signs are up and they can't police the trails all the time. The dog owners don't give a $#it and think the "dogs must be leashed" signs don't apply to them. Being nice or yelling at them has the same effect - they still don't care.

So, I'm now back out on the roads. I choose my routes in & out of town carefully and stay off the worst roads out in the countryside. I just do my best and hope that it works out ok. If it doesn't then I guess I'm the one who made the choice. Not riding is not an option.


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## rward325 (Sep 22, 2008)

I recently walked away from cycling for several months. It was no longer fun for me to ride. You when ride is done around my house it involves getting 2 of everything ready. I had to clean, tune, repair and load to of everything. "She" did not want to help, only ride and I got to the point where I said screw it. I just wasn't int to all the work I had to do to go do something that should be fun. 

This has recently changed with the addition of a bike that I bought as a grocery getter and cruiser. Turns out it is good for some other things as well as pointed out by a friend. Looks like I can hit the road for a few days with a tent now all by myself! This has me excited about cycling again! Now I need to put on some base miles all over again and get back in shape to do this but it gives me something to aim for. I have made it clear to my GF she is now responsible for her own bike and its maintenance. I can only hope this will stand the test of time.


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## DEK (Feb 12, 2005)

I did give up riding for about 4 years because I was tired of being a target when I rode. I had full pop cans thrown at me; a guy in a pick up who intentionally swerved from the opposite side of the road which caused me to crash; and numerous other incidents. 

I've since gotten over my fears and have been back on the bike for about a year. We'll see how long it lasts.


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## BostonG (Apr 13, 2010)

trip221 said:


> Has anyone else thought of giving up the road bike entirely?


Every time I climb 

We hear about crashes and (very unfortunately) some people getting killed here too. When I hear about those things my thoughts are always that I need to brush up and refresh my riding in traffic skills rather than stopping.

My wife wasn’t very comfortable with me riding in traffic either. But as I got stronger and more knowledgeable her comfort heightened. She saw me reading about safety techniques and I talk to her about it. She asks questions and I give sensible answers so she feels better about it. But, she does still worry and tells me to drive safely (yes, she says “drive safely” – I love her) as I leave for work, and I do. 

Maybe brushing up on how to ride in traffic will help bolster your and her confidence?


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## trip221 (Oct 22, 2003)

I'm confident in my riding skills and dealing with traffic. It's the distracted drivers that scare me. When riding solo I have a bright tail light blinking, wear high visibility kits, and keep as far to the right as is reasonable. But if someone's playing with their iphone there's nothing you can do.

But you guys are right, it's not something I'll be able to give up. And my wife would be pretty pissed if I spent that much on a bike and it didn't get used.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

What else am I going to do for exercise outdoors year round? Run? Walk? In the rural area where I live, with no sidewalks along most roads, you're even more vulnerable to cars running or walking, than you are on a bike. And not that crime is a concern here, but if it was, I'd rather take my chances that the bad guys can't outrun me on a bike, than if I was on foot. 

I'm lucky to live where I do. Most drivers are used to sharing the road, and give me room. If anything, many vehicles tend to give me way more room than I need.


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## Yolajeff (Aug 24, 2011)

In the past 40 years I’ve visited the ER six times (see rule #81), twice in the last three years. This has given me lots of thought. My wife would love for me to quit. I think about quitting but cycling is too fun. 

Velominati


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

JCavilia said:


> Statistical misunderstanding, selection bias, paranoia.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Statistically you are about as likely to be injured or killed driving as you are biking. Which is still high in comparison (much higher chances than being killed in airplane crash, being struck by lightning, being eaten by sharks, bitten by poison snakes, being killed by an intruder and other things we humans tend to be irrationally paranoid about). Much lower than being killed by heart desease or cancer.

If you are not ready to give up driving because of the risks, you shouldn't give up cycling either. If you do not ride drunk (a lot of fatal injuries happen to people who ride bikes at night, intoxicated), wear a helmet and follow some common sense rules (be visible, watch the drivers, etc.)


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## scryan (Jan 24, 2011)

Internet and mass media tend to make you realize how often bad things happen. 
Sure plenty of people get hurt biking. Check out the number of people who are injured stepping up curbs if you want a REAL look at danger.

You say it seems these days people are constantly being killed.... 
Its easy to hear how many people faced tragedy yesterday and not notice how many didn't.

People die all day everyday. Some of them had to be on bikes at the time.

Even based soley on statistics you are fairly safe... look around you and see all those people riding on the wrong side of the street with a bike with brakes that need service at night in dark colors with no light.
Hell if anything, i feel like with all the stupidity I regularly see people on bikes do (especial the non cyclist croud), the statistics are low to the point where a competent and cautious rider should mathmatically be damn near bullet proof.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

no...


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## Pitts Pilot (Dec 5, 2011)

Every one of my rides involves a fast descent. I have close calls with drivers in the wrong lane or pulling out or stopping - plus dogs/wet/debris etc. on probably 50% of my rides. I'm probably going to have to quit cycling fairly soon - when I die.

I'm getting old for thrashing myself on the mountain bike, but I too have really been focused on how often I have very serious close calls on the road bike in the mountains. I could hugely reduce my close calls by slowing down, but I'm a bit of an adrenaline junky...


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## GearDaddy (Apr 1, 2004)

The only times I ever thought about it was the 2 different times that I suffered through herniated cervical disc problems. Both times it sort of "snapped" out of the blue a few days after doing a lot of riding. It made me question whether I should continue riding when my body seemed to be rebelling against it, and the thought of giving up seriously bummed me out.

I've managed to recover each time and learned a lot more about looking for the signs of problems, avoiding bad bike fit (namely handlebars set too low). Thankfully, I'm feeling 100% again and avoided any surgery or drugs to get back to good.

I certainly have been tailing back on racing, but there's no way I'm gonna stop riding just for fun. I do lots of mountain biking and look forward to cyclocross each fall too. Doesn't matter to me whether it's road or off-road. Just swinging a leg over the bike and taking it in is a happy place that I don't want to give up.


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## sandiegosteve (Mar 29, 2004)

After my second knee surgery I thought the decision was made for me... that got me very depressed.

I'll stop when I can't; and can't has to be pretty dramatic as I've seen many riders missing body parts doing just fine.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

riding too risky...?

my other hobby is cave diving...

six of one, half dozen of the other.


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## DownByFive (Feb 2, 2012)

I read a study that said nearly 9 out of 10 people will die at some point in their lives, so I don't leave the house anymore.

But in all seriousness, if we all hang up our spurs because it's too dangerous, it'll just get more dangerous. As more cyclists hit the road, cycling will get safer as drivers become more accustomed to interacting with cyclists.


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## Ridgetop (Mar 1, 2005)

Don't worry, you're going to die of food poisoning on November 12, 2015. Until then, ride your bike.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Never. I have tried to do some mountain bike when I lived in California, but discovered I really didn't like it a whole lot. The first MTB I got was a tank, a Giant Rincon, still have it, my wife rides it and likes it; then I got a Kona Lava Dome, a lighter bike but still don't like riding it. I take them camping so I can ride trails but I don't like the fact I don't have all the hand positions like a road bike. I still like jumping the bike off drops though at 58 years of age. But I much prefer to ride a road bike due to being able to ride way over 30 miles which is about as far as can ride a MTB before I start getting really uncomfortable.


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## arai_speed (Aug 19, 2003)

How funny, I gave up my motorcycle so I could focus on cycling. To answer the OP - no, I have not thought about it.


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## gordy748 (Feb 11, 2007)

Giving up road cycling, do you mean there are other forms of cycling?

On the other hand, I took up serious cycling as recuperation to get over an avalanche and a 300 foot fall while ice climbing. Which, by the way, is a much better way of upping the ante in the getting killed early stakes.


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## glockaxis (Jan 7, 2012)

GearDaddy said:


> The only times I ever thought about it was the 2 different times that I suffered through herniated cervical disc problems. Both times it sort of "snapped" out of the blue a few days after doing a lot of riding. It made me question whether I should continue riding when my body seemed to be rebelling against it, and the thought of giving up seriously bummed me out.
> 
> I've managed to recover each time and learned a lot more about looking for the signs of problems, avoiding bad bike fit (namely handlebars set too low). Thankfully, I'm feeling 100% again and avoided any surgery or drugs to get back to good.
> 
> I certainly have been tailing back on racing, but there's no way I'm gonna stop riding just for fun. I do lots of mountain biking and look forward to cyclocross each fall too. Doesn't matter to me whether it's road or off-road. Just swinging a leg over the bike and taking it in is a happy place that I don't want to give up.


I was in a similar situation. I picked up riding many years ago and found that my chronic headaches (also involving shoulders and neck) were exacerbated by the basic riding position. I went to all sorts or doctors, took all the necessary scans, but nothing ever came of it. I even tried recumbent bikes but it was not the same for me. I saw a physical therapist last summer and he made my headaches worse---and so I was down in the dumps.

I recently began see another physical therapist who specializes in neck and cranial problems, and he is also an avid cyclist. He has undone the knotted muscles in my shoulder/neck/jaw/head and so far so good.

I've decided that even if this doesn't work, I will just reduced the miles/length of time I ride; get on a vitamin regiment of calcium, D, and magnesium (for muscles), and use a Stim machine if the pain comes back. I love cycling too much to quit.

If this was not enough, I have a torn meniscus in my left knee and had cal reconstruction in the other and cycling is the only sport that doesn't hurt my knees. Find a time when there is low traffic, or scout out areas that will minimize unattetive numb nuts on the road. 

If all else fails, ride your trainer in your back yard.


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## mtnroadie (Jul 6, 2010)

When I lived in Cali I could not understand why any one would want to road bike, look at all the grade A mountain biking that surrounds you. Check out OCrider.com they all get together and ride bikes i think they have given up road riding all together in the past year. 

It took moving back to the sh!t hole we call the North East to get me to to hit the roads. I need speed and the crappy technical trails around here dont cut it. I cant even find a mountain to climb and bomb down around here, whereas in SoCal i lived next door to the Holly Jim trail, Santiago Truck trail and San Juan trail, with trails like that who needs roadbiking?

If I ever do move back to Cali my mtb will without a doubt become my main ride again.

After many road bike projects my next one will finally be a new mtb.... Santa Cruz Nomad Carbon, I hope.


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## modemthug (Feb 15, 2012)

I would never give riding up. As far as road bike? I do switch time to time from track to road.


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2012)

> Statistically you are about as likely to be injured or killed driving as you are biking. Which is still high in comparison (much higher chances than being killed in airplane crash, being struck by lightning, being eaten by sharks, bitten by poison snakes, being killed by an intruder and other things we humans tend to be irrationally paranoid about). Much lower than being killed by heart desease or cancer.


I bet there's some serious flaws in how those statistics are calculated. Are they comparing people who ride bikes on mostly closed or non-busy paths to people commuting on busy roads. I find it utterly incoceivable that in an honest all-thing-equal comparison, any two-wheeled vehicle (motorcycle or bike) come out safer than driving a 4-wheel vehicle. "All things equal" meaning driving a car vs cycling the same number of miles to and from the same destinations at same time of day. 

Or how about descending a relatively straight hill at 45mph (not considering cornering) on the shoulder of a busy road on a bike. On the bike if I hit a big piece of debris I could hit the tarmac and land in the hospital. In my car, I could probably roll over the same object with no ill-effect. Also, does "chance of being injured" give weight based on the severity of the injuries? Consider a typical car-bike traffic collision. Both parties might technically have some injury as result but I can guarantee the cyclist or motorcyclist will come out with more severe injury. 


I've had 4 bike crashes in 4 years of daily cycle commuting. One crash in just over a half a year of serious recreational riding. One of those was a collision with a motor vehicle who ran a red. I reacted to that one in time and came away with almost no significant injury or property damage. The rest were cases where I simply lost control of the bike for one reason or another with no other vehicles involved. 


All that said, I don't expect to cut down on road cycling for sport. I am drastically cutting down the amount of cycle commuting I do. Compared to my weekend or early morning fitness rides, I have a lot more interactions per hour with traffic and get a lot less pleasure and aerobic benefits from commuting. So the risk/benefit ratio is much worse for me. Except in a couple of specific situations, like avoiding expensive parking permits, there isn't really much monetary savings by bike commuting vs driving on the margin. This is espeically true given that the majority of the cost for my automobile would be the same independent of how much I drive (ie car payments, insurance, registration etc.).



> When I lived in Cali I could not understand why any one would want to road bike, look at all the grade A mountain biking that surrounds you. Check out OCrider.com they all get together and ride bikes i think they have given up road riding all together in the past year.
> 
> It took moving back to the sh!t hole we call the North East to get me to to hit the roads. I need speed and the crappy technical trails around here dont cut it. I cant even find a mountain to climb and bomb down around here, whereas in SoCal i lived next door to the Holly Jim trail, Santiago Truck trail and San Juan trail, with trails like that who needs roadbiking?
> 
> ...


Over the holidays I spend a lot of time in California. What I enjoyed doing the most there was riding extensive networks of fire roads on my road bike. Great weather, great scenery and fun rolling terrain with no vehicular traffic to worry about.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

To the extent that I've had such thoughts, it's been more about where and when I ride than any idea of puttiing it aside. 

And to the extent that I've felt personally out of control, threatened, or 'squeezed' when riding, it's been getting out in the lane that's fixed the problem. Cowering towards the white line has always made it worse. Not to make this into a defensive riding discussion, but it's the folks riding right on the edge that are all but inviting the drivers to try to squeeze by in the lane. Get out there in the lane, move over when it's safe for YOU to let them past, and it goes much better. It also puts a big object between you and the distracted driver behind them. If the traffic can't support that, you're likely on the wrong road.

Plus, the only serious injury accident I've ever had was riding alone on a desolate stretch of a MUT through the countryside. Water bottle missed the cage, hopped the back wheel off the pavement. When it tried to run back on, physics took over, and I inverse-supermanned headlong into a tree. By the grace of dog I don't eat through a tube, but for almost two years I couldn't see the top of my shoulders without a mirror, or more than 15 feet up the road when trying to ride. I did quit the road bike then. 

I bought a recumbent and an eyeglass mirror.

Thankfully, that shame* is long past me.


*I keed. There's actually quite a lot to be said for them. I just happen to belong on a proper bike. Still use the mirror, though.


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2012)

danl1 said:


> To the extent that I've had such thoughts, it's been more about where and when I ride than any idea of puttiing it aside.
> 
> And to the extent that I've felt personally out of control, threatened, or 'squeezed' when riding, it's been getting out in the lane that's fixed the problem. Cowering towards the white line has always made it worse. Not to make this into a defensive riding discussion, but it's the folks riding right on the edge that are all but inviting the drivers to try to squeeze by in the lane. Get out there in the lane, move over when it's safe for YOU to let them past, and it goes much better. It also puts a big object between you and the distracted driver behind them. If the traffic can't support that, you're likely on the wrong road.


My only crash with a vehicle was nearly being t-boned by a driver who outright blew a red light mid-signal. I was able to slam the brakes and turn at the last second so that I hit their car door shoulder first, rather than being splattered. It's scenarios like this that have me more worried than the bread and butter car cyclist altercations like "right hooks" or getting buzzed -- which I agree can be mitigated dramatically by cycling defensively. 

I'm pretty assertive about taking lanes, getting into positions etc. to make left turns. Also, I'm pretty sure I've avoided a LOT of right-hooks by getting behind drivers who are acting like they're about to turn right, and passing them on the left as they make their turn.



> Plus, the only serious injury accident I've ever had was riding alone on a desolate stretch of a MUT through the countryside. Water bottle missed the cage, hopped the back wheel off the pavement. When it tried to run back on, physics took over, and I inverse-supermanned headlong into a tree. By the grace of dog I don't eat through a tube, but for almost two years I couldn't see the top of my shoulders without a mirror, or more than 15 feet up the road when trying to ride. I did quit the road bike then.


Almost every cyclist I know, their most serious injuries came about from something dumb like this. My worst crash was back in college on my way to a meeting. I was riding hands off the bars putting something away in my backpack when I saw I was about to ride into a big crack in the road. I panicked, grabbed the bars, then hit the brake and oversteered trying to avoid the crack. I was probably only going about 10mph at the time but ended up with a fracture in my right hand and was unable to write three days before finals started... 

It was after that I became a lot more proactive about actually practicing bike handling. 



> I bought a recumbent and an eyeglass mirror.
> 
> Thankfully, that shame* is long past me.
> 
> ...


I don't know why people are so down on mirrors. I run one of these on all my bikes. I find it really helps a LOT when looking for openings to make left turns on multi-lane streets, or glancing to check for potential right-hooks without having to turn my head completely around every 5 seconds...


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## oily666 (Apr 7, 2007)

PhotonFreak said:


> I don't know why people are so down on mirrors. I run one of these on all my bikes. I find it really helps a LOT when looking for openings to make left turns on multi-lane streets, or glancing to check for potential right-hooks without having to turn my head completely around every 5 seconds...


Because they're all way more image conscious than they want to admit. Besides mirrors detract from $500.00 chrome bike shoes and add a heinous number of grams to a bike. Good thing helmets are fashionable or the death toll would be much higher.


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## mmoose (Apr 2, 2004)

The thought had flittered thru mu brain recently. Gravel. Cross bike on a gravel road in January in Minnesota. Snow, no snow, doesn't matter. It's good. And if you have a group enjoying it together, it's very good. You can use the entire width of the road, "traffic" worries are a joke.

Only real downside so far is dogs. They're a lot more direct when riding gravel. It took me a while to realize I can't just out sprint them. I have a nice bruise to show for it now. But live and learn.

So yea, I've thought briefly about giving up road cycling. Just ride gravel all year long. But road riding round these parts is not a gladiator sport. Drivers are not urban drivers etc. I could not live in a major city and deal with such traffic. (I did live near a major city, dealt with the traffic for a while, smarted up and moved away so I can enjoy life and not get stuck in the rat race)


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## brewster (Jun 15, 2004)

Been riding for 25+ years. The only time I considered quiting all together was when I let myself go for a several year period being consumed by work. I gained 50 pounds, was eating horribly and had a messed up sleep cycle. Riding was torturous and humiliating with people I had once demolished on the bike. But I realized that would only make matters worse. Luckily, that is behind me now and I live much healthier. Riding is fun, invigorating and a stress reliever. I really feel compassionate for those big, heavy guys on a group ride that are laboring so much, I know they are trying as hard as I, but have to work 3 times as hard. I remember.

brewster


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## leadout_kv (Feb 7, 2011)

JCavilia said:


> Statistical misunderstanding, selection bias, paranoia.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


First let me say that I believe riding can be safe if drivers and cyclist are smart while on the road.

With that said, where did you get your numbers? I have this funny feeling you pulled them out of a hat...to put it nicely. Take a look at just Pennsylvania statistics. They (just one state) blow your numbers out of the water. 

National & Pennsylvania Bicycle Accident Statistics


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## GearDaddy (Apr 1, 2004)

PhotonFreak said:


> I don't know why people are so down on mirrors. I run one of these on all my bikes. I find it really helps a LOT when looking for openings to make left turns on multi-lane streets, or glancing to check for potential right-hooks without having to turn my head completely around every 5 seconds...


What I think is bad about mirrors is that you don't move your head and look. IMO, drivers will react to the motions you make when on the bike. If they see you turn and look back to the left or right, then the drivers are more apt to think you are going to move to the left or right, or you simply acknowledge that you are aware of the driver. Someone wearing a mirror may appear to drivers to swerve unexpectedly off their line because they are NOT showing any indication of their intentions.

Turning, looking, making eye contact is good communication to others on the road and makes for safer riding.


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## D&MsDad (Jul 17, 2007)

mpre53 said:


> What else am I going to do for exercise outdoors year round? Run? Walk? In the rural area where I live, with no sidewalks along most roads, you're even more vulnerable to cars running or walking, than you are on a bike.


That is one thing that astonished me when I took up running again to complement my riding. I run on the sidewalk when there is one, but when there is no sidewalk and I run in the road drivers actually get closer to me than they do when I ride a bike.

I concluded that the vast majority of close passes while cycling are, therefore, not due to animosity towards cyclists (I've never heard animosity expressed on the behalf of drivers towards runners), but instead are due to other factors (inattention, incompetence, selfishness, etc.).





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## desertgeezer (Aug 28, 2011)

trip221 said:


> Here in southern California it seems like people are getting critically injured or killed by cars left and right, at least once a month. I doesn’t matter if it’s an area with bad roads and no shoulder or a new community with wide bike lanes. It’s distracted drivers. Hell, even the local MUT isn’t safe with recent muggings and bike thefts. So as much as I love solo rides I’m only doing group rides now. And my extra cautious wife is paranoid every time I go out.
> 
> Has anyone else thought of giving up the road bike entirely? I love mountain biking too, and at least with that I feel that most of the burden of safety is on my own shoulders (except a possible mountain lion attack). But at least there won’t be any run-ins with cars. I still don’t think I could hang up the road bike for good, but it is something I think about on a weekly basis.


I grew up in north San Diego county. I can remember when 101 was the only road from Oceanside to San Diego. I remember when the beaches were empty except for us local kids. I can remember when traffic was very light. Now, it's hard to go back there. Traffic is very heavy no matter the time of day or night. I see guys riding through Carlsbad, Encinitas, Solana Beach and Lucadia and constantly having to deal with rude, distracted drivers. It's a beautiful area, but a tough place to try to get a good peaceful ride.


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## bike981 (Sep 14, 2010)

LubbersLine said:


> With that said, where did you get your numbers? I have this funny feeling you pulled them out of a hat...to put it nicely. Take a look at just Pennsylvania statistics. They (just one state) blow your numbers out of the water.
> 
> National & Pennsylvania Bicycle Accident Statistics


I'm not sure how you define "blow your numbers out of the water." The data on that site fail to indicate the *rate* at which bicyclists are injured -- injuries/fatalities per mile and/or per riding hour. Just stating stuff like "The number of bicycle accident injuries increased in 2010 to 1,474" (as an actual example) is useless as a means to gauge the risk.

Also, it's on the website of a personal injury attorney, so there's at least some interest in presenting the data in an alarming manner.


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## MoonHowl (Oct 5, 2008)

No way would I give up road riding because of the risk. Not riding also has risk since cycling is my primary form of exercise. Years ago I was more of a mountain biker but now I am no fan of getting into the car to go biking, so I have largely given up mountain biking. I do live in the mountains and there are outstanding trails around; I have also heard of more people getting killed mountain biking than road biking in this area. I spoke to someone that works for the USFS and she stated EMS is hauling people off the mountain routinely on a mountain bike trail in the area which I ride occasionally. To make a long story short, I believe I am in more danger when mountain biking but OTH, theoretically, the risk is more in my control.


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## browsielove (Nov 22, 2011)

Almost - Due to the weenies that reprimand me for "blowing up the group" during group rides. The prospects of getting hit can freak out any cyclist, but I'm probably safer on the road than in the woods...


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## 180 (Jan 10, 2009)

I've thought about it... but every time I get on my bike I end up saying to myself "man, this is the best thing ever" and I can't ever imagine hanging it up. I really have no desire to MTB. I don't ride the regular (traffic) roads very often these days...mostly because I ride alone. When I'm riding around the OC I see cars swerving in and out of bike lanes all the time. I just don't feel safe out there.

I mostly just stick to the MUTs and there's a nature park nearby with wide roads only used for a very occasional service truck. We haven't had any problems with our MUT here that I know of. I can get a decent 20 - 30 miles in a day there. I'm in SoCal too. If you're at all near Dana Point come check it out. It's about as safe as it gets as it gets really. 

You should be able to find a fairly safe route for yourself. Even if its a nearby neighborhood or driving your bike to a safe place. Bike are fun. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

tystevens said:


> I have been thinking about it recently, especially after a conversation w/ my wife where she admitted that my commuting to/from work on the bike worries her more than I previously understood. Kinda like I gave up motorcycles when I got married and became a dad -- didn't seem like the risk was worth it anymore.
> 
> But it doesn't seem like lots of cyclists are getting hit by cars here in SLC. I believe my commuting and fun ride routes (usually from one suburb to another, as I don't work downtown) are about as safe as they can be, and in 4 years of commuting now, I've not really even had what I'd consider a "close call" w/ an automobile. So I'm not gonna give it up yet. But I do see some people riding downtown or other places and wonder what they are thinking.


tystevens...what part of town are you in? I live at Thanksgiving Point but ride all over...my regular Saturday ride is up behind Hogle Zoo and back. 

My office used to be downtown and I would ride up City Creek every day on my lunch break. Just getting from the Triad Center to Memory Grove (1 mile?) was a death defying feat everyday. I see the same guys riding downtown around the city and think they're nuts...


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

I've been hit by cars and been injured a coupla times and my only thought has been, "when can I get back on my bike".
Stuff Happens and we can't hide from all of it. People eat in restaurants every day without worrying if somebody spit in their soup, and I'm willing to bet it happens more than we'd like to think. Maybe more often than close calls while cycling.
Life is full of risk and I'm OK with that, in fact Life without risk would be pretty bland.

Now, about traffic...
I have just started riding with a GoPro camera mounted on my bike and I'm starting to think that we may be over-reacting to the whole "They're all trying to get me" thing. 

During my rides when I'm buzzed by or threatened by a driver it enrages me and I probably stew about it for anywhere from a little while to a number of miles, and it's on my mind till the rides over and I've been home for a while.

But....
When I review the video of my ride/rides most drivers are giving me ample room and fair treatment. And I think that that's probably universally true. We percieve more danger out there than there really is because just treatment doesn't stand out like a threat, real or percieved, does.


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## oily666 (Apr 7, 2007)

GearDaddy said:


> What I think is bad about mirrors is that you don't move your head and look. IMO, drivers will react to the motions you make when on the bike. If they see you turn and look back to the left or right, then the drivers are more apt to think you are going to move to the left or right, or you simply acknowledge that you are aware of the driver. Someone wearing a mirror may appear to drivers to swerve unexpectedly off their line because they are NOT showing any indication of their intentions.
> 
> Turning, looking, making eye contact is good communication to others on the road and makes for safer riding.


That's the best reason I've heard since a fellow rider told me, from his hopital bed, that he could judge a car's distance behind him at dusk by the reflection in his front wheel. :aureola:

Turning, looking, making eye contact is absolutely a must in traffic, but with a mirror you're aware of the vehicle before you turn and make eye contact. 

You are also correct.....drivers will react to the motions you make when on the bike. In a study done a few years back, it was found that when being overtaken by a car, if you drop your left hand to your side (without swerving) and give it a quick shake as if it was getting numb, drivers will give you more room when they pass.


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## tystevens (Jul 10, 2008)

Cyclin Dan said:


> tystevens...what part of town are you in? I live at Thanksgiving Point but ride all over...my regular Saturday ride is up behind Hogle Zoo and back.
> 
> My office used to be downtown and I would ride up City Creek every day on my lunch break. Just getting from the Triad Center to Memory Grove (1 mile?) was a death defying feat everyday. I see the same guys riding downtown around the city and think they're nuts...


Wow, T-point to Hogle and back is a pretty good ride, especially being in the city most of the way! How long does that take you?

I live in South Jordan and work in Holladay. I have a variety of commuting routes to eliminate boredom, but mostly either: 1) Jordan River Pkwy MUT to 4800 S, then up to Holladay; 2) 1300 W to Vine (by the hospital) then up to Holladay, or 3) 9800 S. to 700 E, then down to Van Winkle. All are either not very busy roads, MUT, or large roads w/ excellent shoulders. I actually really like roads like 700 E (south of about 5600) or Redwood (south of 90th), even though they are busy, because the bike lanes are really wide and there isn't a lot of people turning onto the roads except at lights. My 'fun' rides are usually around parts of the South Valley (12600 So up to Highland and around to 146 So., the U-111 loop, or Redwood to Saratoga Springs).

It seems that the farther north in the valley you go, the worse the roads become for riding, with the exception of Wasatch/Emigration Cyn area I suppose. If I worked much further north than I do (~4800 So), I probably wouldn't ride to work.


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## balatoe (Apr 15, 2009)

I live within a mile from Oneill Park, so I understand your sentiment. I frequent Harding Truck Trail up to Santiago Peak and then bomb down the mountain. I do both MTB and road. Being fortunate to live in Socal allows me to do both year round. 

I have been doing road biking for almost 4 years. I hear about accidents involving cars and bicycles every now and then, so I am extra vigilant when I ride on the road. I used to wear headphones when I ride, but no longer. I try not to ride on roads without bike lanes and during the night. I think it all about minimizing your chances of getting hit by a car by being selective in choose where and when you ride. 

No, I have never thought of hanging my bikes up and call it a day, unless I can no longer ride.


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2012)

GearDaddy said:


> What I think is bad about mirrors is that you don't move your head and look. IMO, drivers will react to the motions you make when on the bike. If they see you turn and look back to the left or right, then the drivers are more apt to think you are going to move to the left or right, or you simply acknowledge that you are aware of the driver. Someone wearing a mirror may appear to drivers to swerve unexpectedly off their line because they are NOT showing any indication of their intentions.
> 
> Turning, looking, making eye contact is good communication to others on the road and makes for safer riding.


I always actually look and make eye contact before actually making a move like a lane change or turn, or if I suspect an "interaction" with a car is possible such as negotiating right-of-way at an intersection of driveway. 

I use mirros on the bike the same way I do when driving. That is I always actually look/check all blind spots and signal when making moves. With the mirror though I can more easily do quick occasional glances to see what's behind me, and possibly alert me of something behind me before it gets to within audible range. 

In some cases though, such as merging left to make a left turn, when I was constantly looking over my shoulder to look for gaps in the traffic, some drivers would misinterpret that as if I was going to dart out in front of them and cut them off, so they would slow way down and cover their brakes rather than passing by me -- which actually made it harder to get a clear opening to move to the left lane.


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## Chris_S (Mar 9, 2011)

I am a destiny person, when the man upstairs pulls my number, no matter what I am doing it is going to happen. Could be a car, could be a bus, could be that green ice falling from the sky, a heart attack, or who knows. I enjoy riding, and would rather be doing something I enjoy than something I wished I had enjoyed in the finals moments.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

bike981 said:


> I'm not sure how you define "blow your numbers out of the water." The data on that site fail to indicate the *rate* at which bicyclists are injured -- injuries/fatalities per mile and/or per riding hour. Just stating stuff like "The number of bicycle accident injuries increased in 2010 to 1,474" (as an actual example) is useless as a means to gauge the risk.
> 
> Also, it's on the website of a personal injury attorney, so there's at least some interest in presenting the data in an alarming manner.


Is Cycling Dangerous? -- The Risk of Bicycle Use -- Accidents, Fatalities, Injuries, and Benefits

I like the fatalities per million hours based on activity - Living is 1.53, cycling is 0.26. Living is 6 times more deadly per hour than biking!


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## Vayinafash (Oct 16, 2007)

Have not stopped riding but ride less - primary exercise is running - will see what happens as weather warms up. A bad crash where I broke lots of stuff changed my riding. Running is safer from a crash perspective - don't want to go through breaking stuff again. I think I will bike as a recovery/break from running. We will see. Used to hate running - things change.


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2012)

Vayinafash said:


> Have not stopped riding but ride less - primary exercise is running - will see what happens as weather warms up. A bad crash where I broke lots of stuff changed my riding. Running is safer from a crash perspective - don't want to go through breaking stuff again. I think I will bike as a recovery/break from running. We will see. Used to hate running - things change.


I used to be a runner primarily. I'd bike for transit but not for sport/recreation. Ironically what changed that for me was actually a bike crash -- I was running late for a meeting and ended up going for an all-out "yellow light sprint" into a left turn. As I reached the apex of the turn I realized the intersection was totally filled with a thin layer of sand and both my wheels slid out from under me. Ended up bruising my left heel pretty badly when that slammed into the road, and was unable to run for a couple weeks, but I could actually still pedal completely pain free. Ended up cycling to keep my fitness up and didn't go back to running after my foot recovered.

I'm looking to start running again a bit more though, mostly as I can get a quality workout in a lot less time on weekday mornings. Less prep time required before getting out the door, and less risk of unanticipated delays like flat tires.


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## Cyclin Dan (Sep 24, 2011)

tystevens said:


> Wow, T-point to Hogle and back is a pretty good ride, especially being in the city most of the way! How long does that take you?
> 
> I live in South Jordan and work in Holladay. I have a variety of commuting routes to eliminate boredom, but mostly either: 1) Jordan River Pkwy MUT to 4800 S, then up to Holladay; 2) 1300 W to Vine (by the hospital) then up to Holladay, or 3) 9800 S. to 700 E, then down to Van Winkle. All are either not very busy roads, MUT, or large roads w/ excellent shoulders. I actually really like roads like 700 E (south of about 5600) or Redwood (south of 90th), even though they are busy, because the bike lanes are really wide and there isn't a lot of people turning onto the roads except at lights. My 'fun' rides are usually around parts of the South Valley (12600 So up to Highland and around to 146 So., the U-111 loop, or Redwood to Saratoga Springs).
> 
> It seems that the farther north in the valley you go, the worse the roads become for riding, with the exception of Wasatch/Emigration Cyn area I suppose. If I worked much further north than I do (~4800 So), I probably wouldn't ride to work.


I love riding on Redwood as well for the reasons you stated...the biggest being that there aren't a lot of people turning on/off the road everywhere. 

My ride up to the zoo varies. I always either go over Suncrest then down to the Bangerter/Highland intersection (gas station) or over the point on the Frontage and Road then head up to the gas station. From there I take Highland to 13th, up to 12300 then up to Wasatch Boulevard and take that all the way to where I cross over I-80, then I follow the Bonneville Shoreline up through Bonneville Golf Course and on to the zoo. Going over Suncrest adds about 35 minutes to the ride, but round trip it takes between 4 & 5 hours depending if I include the big climb over Suncrest and how the wind is =)

I'm sure I see you on the road...it sounds like we ride in the same areas. This Saturday I'm riding West out to Five Mile Pass. I'm the only guy in town with a "yellow Jersey yellow" S-Works Tarmac SL3....pretty easy to spot. My buddy Allen lives near you and makes that same route. Tall guy that had a Roubaix and now has a Fezzari...is he in your group?


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## PMC (Jan 29, 2004)

As someone who has been drilled by cars multiple times it takes time to get back on it and not feel like everyone is bering down on you. 
having someone pull out in front or blast by only to cut you off to make that right hand turn 4 seconds sooner doesn't freak me out even though I've broken bones having that happen. I think it's because you can see it coming. 
What still freaks me out some is getting popped from behind when you don't see or hear it coming. The worst part is with more and more drivers over 65 there are that many more who shouldn't be driving but still do.

So would I give it up - yeah and I have... But I always come back after a break. If you've spent the better part of your life as a roadie or road racer/rider chances are you'll be back.


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## leadout_kv (Feb 7, 2011)

bike981 said:


> I'm not sure how you define "blow your numbers out of the water." The data on that site fail to indicate the *rate* at which bicyclists are injured -- injuries/fatalities per mile and/or per riding hour. Just stating stuff like "The number of bicycle accident injuries increased in 2010 to 1,474" (as an actual example) is useless as a means to gauge the risk.
> 
> Also, it's on the website of a personal injury attorney, so there's at least some interest in presenting the data in an alarming manner.


True and agreed.


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## partyofone (Feb 8, 2012)

National & Pennsylvania Bicycle Accident Statistics[/QUOTE]

I read this article but I must warn you that the author, Edgar Snyder, is a local ambulance chaser that makes a fortune on personal injury law. He also has commmercials on TV about dog bites, worker's comp, etc.

His slogan "there's no fee unless we get money for you." If he does, he gets a big fat check.


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## mtor (Mar 1, 2007)

trip221 said:


> Here in southern California it seems like people are getting critically injured or killed by cars left and right, at least once a month. I doesn’t matter if it’s an area with bad roads and no shoulder or a new community with wide bike lanes. It’s distracted drivers. Hell, even the local MUT isn’t safe with recent muggings and bike thefts. So as much as I love solo rides I’m only doing group rides now. And my extra cautious wife is paranoid every time I go out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I stopped riding for about a year after i saw a friend get hit by a car.


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## Digger51 (May 12, 2006)

Keep your head on a swivel and expect the cars to do the unexpected and you should be fine. Be aware of your surroundings at all times.


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## MoonHowl (Oct 5, 2008)

55x11 said:


> Is Cycling Dangerous? -- The Risk of Bicycle Use -- Accidents, Fatalities, Injuries, and Benefits
> 
> I like the fatalities per million hours based on activity - Living is 1.53, cycling is 0.26. Living is 6 times more deadly per hour than biking!



There you have it! I don't live to cycle; I cycle to live!:thumbsup:


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## freighttraininguphill (Jun 7, 2011)

deleted


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## potholered70 (Feb 14, 2012)

I prefer road riding as opposed to trail because the ambulance can usually reach you more quickly. If you get hurt out in the woods time is often not on you're side.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

potholered70 said:


> I prefer road riding as opposed to trail because the ambulance can usually reach you more quickly. If you get hurt out in the woods time is often not on you're side.


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Guest (Feb 21, 2012)

potholered70 said:


> I prefer road riding as opposed to trail because the ambulance can usually reach you more quickly. If you get hurt out in the woods time is often not on you're side.


best compromise in this front, IMO, is fire roads near town -- no traffic normally, and in the unlikely event there is a debilitating crash, fire dept/parametics should have an unobstructed road to reach me


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## tystevens (Jul 10, 2008)

Cyclin Dan said:


> I'm sure I see you on the road...it sounds like we ride in the same areas. This Saturday I'm riding West out to Five Mile Pass. I'm the only guy in town with a "yellow Jersey yellow" S-Works Tarmac SL3....pretty easy to spot. My buddy Allen lives near you and makes that same route. Tall guy that had a Roubaix and now has a Fezzari...is he in your group?


Yeah, I'm out there, although less often in the last several months -- I've been riding the mtb a lot more when I have the chance for a fun ride lately. I've actually been heading down your way to the Eagle Mtn bike park several times over the last couple months -- it has been snow free until recently, and I've been having a good time playing around on their DH trails and obstacles. 

Although, I'm a fairly nondescript heavy guy on a white and blue aluminum bike, so I blend in with all the other riders heading up and down Redwood pretty well! No, I don't ride with any group or club or anything, just a couple neighbors on occasion when our schedules align.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

For 30 seconds when my doc suggested that after a crash and concussion.


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

Ok let’s up this 2012 topic a bit. Jesus..I was still married with my first wife back then...lol.

Yes I thought of it and i’m doing it. After having been almost hit from behind in December ( the driver veered off road and totaled his car to avoid me ) it took me 4 months of riding to realize the fun of it was totally lost. I used to look forward to go ride but each and every ride for the past 4 months has been some sort of keep looking at the garmin to check how long I still had to go before returning to the car. I have a 3 years old boy now,and back in 2012 social apps were not the thing yet,nowadays people just drive with both hands at 12 o’clock on the wheel while holding their phones. There’s one lucky guy in this world that will get a brand new Colnago C64 at a very good price,in the mean time the guy writing this is choosing his gravel bike..


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

after being hit 4 times by autos, I'm still down to ride on the road. it's just part of who I am.

had facial surgery 5 days ago and was told to avoid exercise for two weeks...got in 30 miles today.

possibly not the smartest move, but it was a beautiful day and sitting on the couch was simply not an option.


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## BCSaltchucker (Jul 20, 2011)

If I lived somewhere where the mountain biking was primo and highly varied, and available from my doorstep, I would stop riding the road bike, YES. 

I think it is an easy bet than Mathieu Van der poel, Peter Sagan, Chris Froome, Ryder Hesjedal and Cadel Evans would not have bothered taking up road racing if they could have made half as much money just doing XC racing. With the caveat being road riding/racing is often an important part of XC racer's training.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

I've had a few close calls, but no accidents yet. I haven't thought of giving up the road but do ride on it less than I used to. I am fortunate that a move last year put me about a mile and a half from a really nice MUT system where on some days I can ride for miles without every seeing another soul.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Devastazione said:


> Ok let’s up this 2012 topic a bit. Jesus..I was still married with my first wife back then...lol.
> 
> Yes I thought of it and i’m doing it. After having been almost hit from behind in December ( the driver veered off road and totaled his car to avoid me ) it took me 4 months of riding to realize the fun of it was totally lost. I used to look forward to go ride but each and every ride for the past 4 months has been some sort of keep looking at the garmin to check how long I still had to go before returning to the car. I have a 3 years old boy now,and back in 2012 social apps were not the thing yet,nowadays people just drive with both hands at 12 o’clock on the wheel while holding their phones. There’s one lucky guy in this world that will get a brand new Colnago C64 at a very good price,in the mean time the guy writing this is choosing his gravel bike..


What size is that Colnago?


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

PBL450 said:


> What size is that Colnago?


54s

Colnago C64 Record 12v | BDC-Mag.com


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

I've been pretty lucky so far. Either that or maybe it's just that I try to reduce the odds of being hit by choosing lesser traveled safer roads and being super attentive. I've had plenty of close calls, most of which involved cars turning in front of me.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Devastazione said:


> Ok let’s up this 2012 topic a bit. Jesus..I was still married with my first wife back then...lol.
> 
> Yes I thought of it and i’m doing it. After having been almost hit from behind in December ( the driver veered off road and totaled his car to avoid me ) it took me 4 months of riding to realize the fun of it was totally lost. I used to look forward to go ride but each and every ride for the past 4 months has been some sort of keep looking at the garmin to check how long I still had to go before returning to the car. I have a 3 years old boy now,and back in 2012 social apps were not the thing yet,nowadays people just drive with both hands at 12 o’clock on the wheel while holding their phones. There’s one lucky guy in this world that will get a brand new Colnago C64 at a very good price,in the mean time the guy writing this is choosing his gravel bike..


What size is your C-64? Please tell me its art decor.


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

pmf said:


> What size is your C-64? Please tell me its art decor.


Size 54s,color is PKRD ( red and black)


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

Devastazione said:


> Size 54s,color is PKRD ( red and black)


Oh well ... I think 52S is my size (equivalent to 56cm traditional geometry I believe). I like the blue one, but the paint jobs just aren't cool like the older C-40's were.


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## Finx (Oct 19, 2017)

I have been hit twice. Both times the drivers fault. 1st time I was fairly seriously injured and received an appropriate settlement. 2nd time, I was uninjured (was grazed by someone passing me inside a "Sharrow" lane), and the driver drove off.

I rarely ride on the road any more. If I do, it's just to get from one trail to the next. I'm fortunate to live in an area with a lot of rail trails within a short ride of my home. I can literally do a 150 mile out and back mixed surface rail trail/fire road ride, with only the first two miles being a neighborhood bike lane to get to the trailhead.

I do own 'road' bikes, but the only 'skinny tires only' bike I own (mechanical rim brakes with 28mm max tire clearance) rarely gets ridden any more. I'm always on 35c or larger, and doing mixed surface rides where there is very little or no exposure to cars.


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## smokersteve (May 22, 2016)

JCavilia said:


> Do you know how many people die in traffic accidents in the U.S. on an average day? Around a hundred. How many of those are on bicycles? one or two. In the whole country. And probably half of those are kids, riding with far less attention and skill than you.


Do you know the amount of cars on the road daily vs bikes? Of course more people die in car accidents. 

I moved to SoCal 18 months ago. Last week within a six day time frame 2 of my friends were hit by a car on separate rides. Both of them were in the bike lane and it was unavailable. One has a broken hip and the other cuts and bruises. Both bikes trashed. 

Also within those 18 months there has been at least 7 deaths of cyclist within a 45 mile radius from my house. The majority of them the cyclist was in the bike lane and not one time was the cyclist at fault. 
SoCal is not the safest place to ride!


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

smokersteve said:


> Do you know the amount of cars on the road daily vs bikes? Of course more people die in car accidents.
> 
> I moved to SoCal 18 months ago. Last week within a six day time frame 2 of my friends were hit by a car on separate rides. Both of them were in the bike lane and it was unavailable. One has a broken hip and the other cuts and bruises. Both bikes trashed.
> 
> ...


So, the way a data set works? LA may be an outlier. But the data is being reported from varied sources, ERs, EMTs, victims... It has a huge effect on our perception. Outlier concentrations are common.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

smokersteve said:


> Do you know the amount of cars on the road daily vs bikes? Of course more people die in car accidents.
> 
> I moved to SoCal 18 months ago. Last week within a six day time frame 2 of my friends were hit by a car on separate rides. Both of them were in the bike lane and it was unavailable. One has a broken hip and the other cuts and bruises. Both bikes trashed.
> 
> ...


The safest places in Socal is Irvine to South OC and into North of San Diego.
Any dense urban area north of Irvine and into LA County is a.... death trap.

The local mountain roads of Socal are also relatively safe, eg: GMR, Baldy Road, Crystal Lake (hwy 39), Angeles Crest Hwy (hwy 2), Calabassas area, Hwy 38 in San Bernadino.

Stay away from dense metro areas and you'll stand a good chance of surviving. Socal is a big place so you have plenty of options.

in 2018, 26 cyclists were killed in LA County with a population of over 10 million people.


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

aclinjury said:


> in 2018, 26 cyclists were killed in LA County with a population of over 10 million people.



I'd like to see the seriously injuried ones stats. Because if I have could pick between getting killed or being crippled for life in a wheelchair probably I would pick the first one.


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## mackgoo (Mar 2, 2004)

No I Haven't.


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## GlobalGuy (Jun 9, 2015)

aclinjury said:


> The local mountain roads of Socal are also relatively safe, eg: GMR, Baldy Road, Crystal Lake (hwy 39), Angeles Crest Hwy (hwy 2), Calabassas area, Hwy 38 in San Bernadino.


Yeah, if climbing is no problem for you than mountains are great. Where I live the hills above Santa Monica, Bel Air, Malibu are awesome. Virtually no cars, peace and quiet, good roads, lots of nature with frequently great elevated views of the ocean. 

Also near the coast, Santa Monica, Marina Del Rey, Torrance, Redondo and Hermosa Beach, and Palos Verdes...much of it with bike paths along the ocean or when on the road the drivers are bike friendly experienced drivers. (Bikes are so common everyone is used to dealing with each other and people that live on or near the beach tend to be laid back.) The one exception is near the the Santa Monica Pier. Too much vehicle and foot traffic at the immediate area most of whom are out of town tourists, (clueless.) 

Unfortunately, my power to weight ratio has dropped to very low due to circumstances that I have no control over so I have pretty much had to forgo the canyons. I no longer can ride with an effort that is comfortable and allows me to relax and enjoy the environment. The only climbing I do is one particular Cat 3 5 mile canyon where I always try to ride it as fast as possible. Good training. (Almost 300 rides up it in the past four or five years.)

Addendum: About six-months ago I finally added a rear and front quality light and I noticed it really makes a big difference in people seeing me and that makes things a lot safer in traffic.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

I gave up the road bike about 8 years ago because I was mountain biking quite a bit. Sold my road bike for a SS. But back in 2014, bought a new road bike. Been riding road more nowadays because it helps my mountain biking. Great cross training.


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## chad.trent (Apr 4, 2016)

Every time I ride on the road I think about giving it up. So many car drivers around here that don't care about anyone but themselves. It's only a matter of time before I get hit. So far I haven't given it up though.


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## ogre (Dec 16, 2005)

GlobalGuy said:


> Addendum: About six-months ago I finally added a rear and front quality light and I noticed it really makes a big difference in people seeing me and that makes things a lot safer in traffic.


^This^ I'm a huge believer, and I preach it like I'm a Jehovah's Witness. I do think I get more leeway from motorists with my lights, and it changes their behavior for the better of my welfare.


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

GlobalGuy said:


> Addendum: About six-months ago I finally added a rear and front quality light and I noticed it really makes a big difference in people seeing me and that makes things a lot safer in traffic.


I've been using a high output rear light for years now. It does make a difference, I can hear cars behind my slowing down a lot,but that did not make any difference for my episode back in december. Also consider that today DUIs are a 24 hrs deal,along with stupid texting and stupid social sharing.
A lot of cyclists are totally sold on the Garmin Varia too, I guess they think it's funny to see cars approacching on their devices, but can they tell wich one will be the one hitting them? Totally rip off device, a very strong dailylight is way cheaper..


Funnily enough I came accross this yesterday. It's Australia but I guess it goes for pretty much all over the planet : 

https://road.cc/content/news/260746-australias-mamil-trend-sees-middle-aged-cyclists-soar-percentage-injured-riders


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Living in fear is not living.


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## Akirasho (Jan 27, 2004)

… none of us are getting outta here alive.

Most posters here still have enuff prime left to think they have prime left. You might knee Grim in the gnads a few times, and you may laff a few times, but in the end...


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

That which does not kill me, postpones the inevitable.


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