# Average speed



## Muaythaibike (Oct 26, 2007)

YES, another average speed question. Please dont reply, It all depends... Or just ride for fun. 

I rode this morning in a relatively hilly area and average 16.3 mph. I rode for an hour and felt that I got a good workout. I almost always ride alone so I cannot determine if this is fast or not. My objective is to increase my overall fitness level and lose some weight.

So is 16.3 good or can I expect to improve a lot in the next year?


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## immerle (Nov 6, 2007)

If improved fitness and weight loss are your goals, speed is irrelevant.
anyway, I think speed is relative to environment condition.
I've got the tools to measure heart rate, candace, average speed...
When I'm on the trainer, I use them to motivate myself.
On the road, they are all pretty useless.
Time or distance, enjoyment and how feel are all that matter to me.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

*It all depends*

well, it does.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

Muaythaibike said:


> YES, another average speed question. Please dont reply, It all depends... Or just ride for fun.
> 
> I rode this morning in a relatively hilly area and average 16.3 mph. I rode for an hour and felt that I got a good workout. I almost always ride alone so I cannot determine if this is fast or not. My objective is to increase my overall fitness level and lose some weight.
> 
> So is 16.3 good or can I expect to improve a lot in the next year?


It's good for a beginner. I always use this rule of thumb--if I'm getting passed by a ton of people I'm riding slow. If I don't get passed and mostly pass others then I'm riding fast.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Muaythaibike said:


> Please dont reply, It all depends... Or just ride for fun.


It depends, unless you ride for fun. Oops. 

How about this one: use the search function.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

Pablo said:


> It depends, unless you ride for fun. Oops.
> 
> How about this one: use the search function.


I averaged 55 down this.

<img src=https://www.bbc.co.uk/stoke/content/images/2006/04/28/1_cant_be_that_steep_420x270.jpg>


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

If your objective is to increase your overall fitness level and lose some weight, why are you worried about speed? Just ride as strong as you can, for as long as you can. Don't worry about the numbers. Do that and you definitely can expect to improve a lot in the next year. Speed will come as a byproduct.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> I always use this rule of thumb--if I'm getting passed by a ton of people I'm riding slow. If I don't get passed and mostly pass others then I'm riding fast.



Hey....that's a good way to judge....how come I never thought of that?

My average speed over the past 5300 miles has been 15.00 mph (2 years)

hilly...windy....55 yrs old....


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## russotto (Oct 3, 2005)

I started out this season at just under 16mph on a hilly 15 mile ride. I'm now over 18mph on the same ride, riding that ride 2-3 times per week (plus some other rides).

If you're looking to improve average speeds on a hilly ride, the biggest gains can be made in the slowest parts. In my case, deliberately concentrating on one particular flattish section after a long steep hill (where I was tired and tended to slack off) got me about 1mph.


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## Muaythaibike (Oct 26, 2007)

The bike computers that all of us have measure average speed, as well as top speed and distance. How can we say that numbers are not important? Almost everthing we do in our lives in measured. How can we say number are not important. Almost everything we do in our lives in quantified in some way. Why is it so bad to measure biking progress? I choose not to gauge progress by time on bike. But wait would that not require measurement as well? Any other sport that I have ever participated in number were important. Scores for sporting events. Times for running. Almost everything.

But wait, how do you measure pleasure? I may be the minority but I did not buy a bike just for fun. I use it as a way to get in shape for other athletic pursuit in my life. If I want to enjoy myself I can think of so many better ways. What I do enjoy about my bike is the ability to athletically challenge myself. For that I need measurements and a frame of reverence. No disrespect intended but I do not view biking as some sort of Zen activity that puts me in touch with myself.


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## Becky (Jun 15, 2004)

The problem with using average speed as a metric is that it's not an absolute measurement, the way that the score in a soccer match is. There are too many variables that affect average speed to legitimately compare one average speed to another, especially between riders. For example, my average on my commute might only be 13 mph, but a good hard training ride yields an average of 16 or 18 mph. Different bikes, different goals. I can hang with my friend Bill when we ride together, but I know darn well that he's a much stronger rider, and whats a recovery ride for him will rip my legs off. Different riders, different fitness levels.

Average speed is a great way to compare your performance over time and under similar conditions. If your average on a favorite loop goes from 16 mph to 18 mph over the course of a few months, I'd consider that a demonstration of progress. But don't fall into the trap of relying too heavily on it.

IMHO.


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## indysteel (Jul 21, 2006)

It's not that numbers don't matter. It's just that you shouldn't try to measure your numbers against somebody else's. If you want to measure your own progress by tracking average speed, then by all means, do so. Even with that, however, you run the risk of comparing apples to oranges because of the many variables, e.g., wind, air temp, time of day, solo versus group, etc. Few rides, even over the same route, are created equal. So that takes brings us back to the original advice. Just keep riding and you'll likely see improvement.


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## Muaythaibike (Oct 26, 2007)

The last 2 posts make a lot of sence. Thanks.. So measure the same course over time..Easy enought. Thanks

I want to build killer endurance and stamana. I think biking will help do it....


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Indysteel said it well. It's not that numbers never matter; it's the false reliance on average speed, in some abstract sense, that's misleading. When people say, "it all depends," they mean something specific. Your speed on a given bike ride "depends" on several variables other than your fitness, including hills, wind and traffic. Unless those factors are the same for two rides, it's meaningless to compare the speeds. In other words, you can't say, "Rider A averaged 16 mph on his ride, and Rider B averaged 18 mph on his, so B is faster," unlesss you know an awful lot about the riding conditions.

So you can use average speed to measure YOUR OWN progress (though to do it meaningfully requires you to ride the same course, and then try to correct for variations in conditions (wind, traffic)), but you can only use it to compare yourself to others if they're riding the same course under the same conditions.

So you need to find a local time trial series, and get out there and start testing hyourself against others, if that matters to you.

In your initial post you said, "I almost always ride alone so I cannot determine if this is fast or not." Exactly right. But you also cannot determine it by posting a number here and asking people if it seems fast to them. 

I'll bet you can go faster if you keep working at it, but it all depends.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Muaythaibike said:


> The last 2 posts make a lot of sence. Thanks.. So measure the same course over time..Easy enought. Thanks
> 
> I want to build killer endurance and stamana. I think biking will help do it....


Biking will indeed help that. Long rides are the best for that, but some hard rides are important, and fun, too. A lot of people have worked out their own personal time-trial courses, where they can periodically test themselves. If you want to do that, try to find a route that has light traffic, and as few intersections as possible. The ideal course would be along a single road, without lights or stopsigns. You start someplace, go out to a turnaround, and go back to the start. The out-and-back format somewhat reduces the effect of wind. 

I have a personal course that's 3.5 miles, so 7 miles total, with two stopsigns I have to run (but turning right both times, so "relatively" safe), and generally very light traffic. It's mostly rolling, with a killer hill (about a third of a mile at about 14%) at about 2.5 miles. My informal goal (see, I use numbers, too!) is to average 20 mph on it, but I haven't quite done it, and maybe never will, as age battles with training.

One more thing I'd like to respond to:



> I may be the minority but I did not buy a bike just for fun. If I want to enjoy myself I can think of so many better ways.


Personally, I can only think of one or two


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## Schneiderguy (Jan 9, 2005)

buy a power meter. over kill for most non racers but it will give you the watts put out regardless of the road or weather conditions. I think there are comparisons on line to determine how your performance measures against various levels of cyclist.


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## John Nelson (Mar 10, 2006)

I like to measure my progress by the time it takes me to get up a certain hill. Find a hill that takes at least 20 minutes to climb (if you have any in your area). Time yourself up it. Keep track of your times to keep track of your progress. Of course, your progress won't be monotonic, but it's the trend you care about. It similar if you are trying to lose weight and weigh yourself every morning. You weight will have natural fluctuations due to causes you can't quite pin down, but that's not important because it's the trend you care about.


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

Sorry. This is a question to which there is no good or adequate answer.


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## Muaythaibike (Oct 26, 2007)

what question,


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## rupenaik (Apr 30, 2007)

join a group ride, then you will know how "fast" you really are


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## Jrmccain (Apr 11, 2007)

This is a guideline that the local club put out for its rides:

Pelaton pace > 20 mph avg
Fast pace 17-20 mph avg
Moderate pace 15-17 mph avg
Easy pace 13-15 mph avg
Scenic & Easy < 13 mph avg


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## BobHatcher (Jan 23, 2008)

I think average speed is an interesting metric. I agree that we shouldn't become obsessed with it. I find my average speed is mostly a function of how many times I stop at stop signs, traffic lights, etc. Some times, making a left turn you have to wait 60-sec or more, and I usually don't turn off the computer because nine times out of ten I forget to turn it back on again. Even if you have one of those that will turn off when the wheel stops turning, stops still have an effect. 

Even for the same route by avg speeds vary from 14 to 16.5.

bob


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## Muaythaibike (Oct 26, 2007)

So according to the club guide, at 16.3 my ride was moderate...


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## indysteel (Jul 21, 2006)

If you really want to get faster, I would suggest finding a local group ride that forces you to ride outside your comfort zone, assuming you would feel comfortable riding in a group. 

I do a weekly training ride and that's the only course where I really look at my average speed, but even then, I find it a less than helpful indicator, although it has been interesting to note an increase in speed from last year to this year. Riding in a pack changes the dynamics so much that it's again very hard to compare speed from ride to ride. I tend to gauge my ride primarily on how strong I feel when pulling, how comfortable I am going into the wind, how well I'm able to attack the few hills on the course, and how well I recover after our typical surges.


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## rogerstg (Aug 1, 2007)

Muaythaibike said:


> So according to the club guide, at 16.3 my ride was moderate...


Depends on the ride distance. 5 miles at 16.3 might be slow, vs 50 miles at 16.3 is edging into fast. Also, group riders go faster than solo riders.

It really does "all depend"


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## Jrmccain (Apr 11, 2007)

*Yeah, but....*



Muaythaibike said:


> So according to the club guide, at 16.3 my ride was moderate...


As the others have said there's a lot of variables. I like to think of the guide as a benchmark so others can have a reference point before they get involved. 

If you rode in my area, front range of Colorado, (mostly flat to the east and beastly mountainous to the west), you could vary your speed by 10-15 mph just by choosing direction.


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## logansites (Jan 4, 2007)

indysteel said:


> I tend to gauge my ride primarily on how strong I feel when pulling, how comfortable I am going into the wind, how well I'm able to attack the few hills on the course, and how well I recover after our typical surges.


+1 

Group rides are great as long as you dont try to compare yourself to others. Compare how you do from ride to ride. Unless you are racing there are too many factors involved to compare to other people.


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## sharkey (Mar 29, 2002)

*Riding often and for longer periods of time to loose weight*

The best way to loose weight and to get fit is to ride, ride often, and ride for longer periods of time. Just hammering your brains out will be beneficial health-wise and build strength, but 1) I've never found it very fun, and 2) you tend to hammer for an hour, rest for a day (or two . . or three).

Long, scenic rides make up the finest bicycling experience you can imagine . . . honest.
And when you're not enjoying your weekend of long days in the saddle (at whatever pace you like), you can commute to work . . . Weight will literally fall off you when you commute daily. If you can't commute, commit to riding for an hour every day (even if it's a 10 mph spin around the neighborhood). 

Riding my bike is the best part of my day . . . and I get to do it every day.

So I would urge you to: instead of hammering yourself into oblivion for an hour or an hour and a half (while you suffer your way to burning about 400 calories), you (or better yet, you and a friend) could leave really early in the morning, take a long 5 or 6 hour cruise through the countryside, stopping briefly for food and drinks along the way and burn something like 4,000 calories. 

I am saddened by cyclists that I see on the bike paths, hammering as fast as they can staring into their cycling computers. 

Don't you stare at a computer all day at work?!


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## indysteel (Jul 21, 2006)

sharkey said:


> The best way to loose weight and to get fit is to ride, ride often, and ride for longer periods of time. Just hammering your brains out will be beneficial health-wise and build strength, but 1) I've never found it very fun, and 2) you tend to hammer for an hour, rest for a day (or two . . or three).
> 
> Long, scenic rides make up the finest bicycling experience you can imagine . . . honest.
> And when you're not enjoying your weekend of long days in the saddle (at whatever pace you like), you can commute to work . . . Weight will literally fall off you when you commute daily. If you can't commute, commit to riding for an hour every day (even if it's a 10 mph spin around the neighborhood).
> ...


I think there's room for both--if that's what you want to do. My twice weekly training ride is between 25-30 miles and is pretty intense for me. On the weekends, I try to get my long rides in, typcially in the the 60-90 mile range. I do a recovery ride most Mondays. I think high intensity training has an important place in my fitness routine, as does the endurance work. I abide by the adage that you ride how you train and since I want to have both speed and endurance, I have to train for both. And I have fun doing both. 

My weight had remained about the same, give or take five pounds, even though I ride between 150 and 200 miles a week. The simple truth is that no matter how much or how hard you ride, you still have to watch calories in versus calories out. Energy drinks and frequent rest stops can sabotage weight loss, as can a post-hammerfest binge. It doesn't help that you will notice a marked increase in your appetite as you ride more.


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## MCF (Oct 12, 2006)

A little over a year ago I started and could do abou 18 miles on a flat loop at about 18mph....now after about 3000 miles, I can do about 62 miles and average about 20mph on a very hilly route (some of this improvement though is due to a very large bike upgrade). Ride more and more and you will get faster and go longer.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

MCF said:


> A little over a year ago I started and could do abou 18 miles on a flat loop at about 18mph....now after about 3000 miles, I can do about 62 miles and average about 20mph on a very hilly route (some of this improvement though is due to a very large bike upgrade). Ride more and more and you will get faster and go longer.


until you get old and the speeds start to go back down.................

I can still ride all day....just not at much more than 15 mph (solo, all my speeds are solo)

when you say "hilly route"....what is the criteria?.....ascent and descent in 62 miles?

My route today was 53point something miles, 15.3 mph average (like 2 minutes out of the saddle to "de-hydrate", 2200 ft of ascent, 2200 feet of descent. BUT I'M 55...and as of today..I ain't logging cadence any more, I ain't logging speed any more, I ain't logging heart rate anymore....just miles and time.................


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## MCF (Oct 12, 2006)

I have never logged anything...I just monitor cadance (+85 rpm), heart rate (get concerned ab out longevity at anything above about 180 bpm) and time in saddle/riding (I only check average speed at end of ride).


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> I averaged 55 down this.
> 
> <img src=https://www.bbc.co.uk/stoke/content/images/2006/04/28/1_cant_be_that_steep_420x270.jpg>


Average it up that and I'll buy you a coke


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

California L33 said:


> Average it up that and I'll buy you a coke


wait.....don't you need a hooker to go with that coke?


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## Muaythaibike (Oct 26, 2007)

This weekend I decided for longer ride. 40 miles with 16 mph average. I have only been biking for about 6 months and am happy with my progress. If I train hard how much of an improvent can I expect over the same ride. 40 miles with rolling hills....


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## indysteel (Jul 21, 2006)

As with average speed, there are too many variables at play to predict how much you can expect to improve if you "train hard." For one thing, training hard means different things to different people. 

If you're happy with your progress, then just keep riding at this point in the game. You might identify what, exactly, you'd like to get better at and get specific advice from there. Training for endurance events is different from training for speed is different from training for climbing. I, personally, worked on building my endurance when I first started riding. Long rides at a moderate tempo were my focus. I did get a bit faster but not much. From there, I started working on getting faster (generally by riding with people who were faster than me) and at climbing (by, well, climbing). 

It's hard to focus on all three at once, so I just end up mixing it up. I don't compete and don't have a formal training plan. I'm reasonably happy so long as I'm able to sign on for rides without having to worry too much about whether I can do them reasonably well. I also make sure to stay in good shape over the winter so that I can hit the ground running come spring. 

One of the best motivators, especially for new riders, is to sign up for an event ride--say your first century--and train for it. Have you thought about doing something like that?


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## John Nelson (Mar 10, 2006)

If you have the body and genes of Lance Armstrong, I'd say you can expect to more than double your speed. If you have my body, you'll be lucky if you can avoid losing too much of that 16 MPH you have now.


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