# CR1 Team (the 105s, not the SL)?



## steve314 (Mar 15, 2007)

New rider as of last August, currently on a borrowed '82 Schwinn, been saving for a new bike all year. The two very good lbs's carry LeMond and Scott, respectively. A few questions:

1. The Zurich at $2700 (all prices here include basic outfitting and tax, etc.) has full Ultegra; the Scott CR1 Team is 105s for $2200. I'm not sure I can afford the Pro at $3000. I've ridden each a few times; they're so much better than what I'm currently on that I'm not sure I can quite distinguish between the two. I did ride the Team right after a Giant TCR today and definitely noticed a difference—the Scott is so light and stiff and really flies. But I'm buying the bike for the long haul—should I go for Ultegra rather than 105s? (I know this is an eternally debated question, but I had to ask.)

2. I've been poking around on this site for a while now, and LeMond seems less popular or common than Scott and many other brands that show up repeatedly. Reason? The Zurich has all Bontrager components, including a wheelset that people grumble about on this forum a bit; would I be getting more for my money with the Scott and Mavic Aksiums than with the Zurich and Bontrager Race? 

3. The Scott fits a little big—I'm about 5'8'' with a 30-inch inseam, long torso, short legs, short arms, so apparently I'm a weird fit. They originally tried me on a 56 (no way), then a 54. They've messed around with spacers and angling the bars and lowering the seat, and they've got me fit nicely, but the end result has a much lower seat look than what the bike usually looks like in pictures. Does that matter in any way other than aesthetically? Should I go down to a 52? 

Thanks for any help / advice. I've saved a long time and want to get something top notch that I feel confident in and don't look back. I know bikes in this price point will be generally excellent, and that feel when I test ride is important; I just want to know what other people know from experience.

Thanks.


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## JohnnyChance (Dec 13, 2006)

get the one you thing looks nicer. you will ride it more.

i dont think you will really notice much difference between 105 and ultegra.

i am about 5 foot 9 1/2 inches, pretty much dead normal torso/leg ratio, and i ride a 54. being shorter and having short legs/arms, i would try the 52.


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## b24fsb (Dec 21, 2006)

im 5' 9" with a 30" inseam and I ride a 52cm, I also have a zero offset seatpost to get the right knee spindle plane and i have a 100 mm stem flipped down. the bike fits great and rides like no other. 

the zurich is a cool bike (steel and carbon, right) but the cr1 has more of a sports car feel to it. 105 vs ultegra really doesnt matter. 105 is just last seasons ultegra. id get the better and less $$ bike (scott cr1) and in a year or two if you want to change things up a little and go lighter, then change the wheels and perhaps the group set them. 

my cr1 18lbs even with pedals and bottle cages. i have a easton ec90 zero seatspot, SLR XP seat, control tech alum. bars (same weight as stock comp bars but its a wing bar for comfort). keo carbon pedals (non-ti ones). the bike could loose 2lbs so easy, the askium wheels are 1980g for the set. get a good 1500g wheelset and thats over a pound right there. change just the shifters and you can loose 1/2lbs. the bike has so much potential.


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## steve314 (Mar 15, 2007)

b24fsb said:


> the zurich is a cool bike (steel and carbon, right) but the cr1 has more of a sports car feel to it. 105 vs ultegra really doesnt matter. 105 is just last seasons ultegra. id get the better and less $$ bike (scott cr1) and in a year or two if you want to change things up a little and go lighter, then change the wheels and perhaps the group set them.


Thanks for the perspective. The Zurich is all carbon this year, actually. And I'm hearing a lot that there's not much difference between Ultegra and 105; I rode a Giant with Ultegras right after 30 miles on the Team the other day and thought the Ultegra brakes were a little grippier and the shifting a little firmer, but the differences were definitely mild if they were there at all.

How much would it be down the road to change out tires and group set? My thinking at this point is, I want to invest in a bike I'm going to love and ride a lot for a long, long time. I'm a teacher with three kids under five so I've saved a while for this bike and it's not like I'm just going to find a couple grand in my pocket again anytime soon with nothing to do with it.


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## stonecrd (Jun 12, 2007)

b24fsb said:


> the zurich is a cool bike (steel and carbon, right) but the cr1 has more of a sports car feel to it.


I would agree with this. I went from a Trek Pilot with 105 to a CR1 Pro with Ultegra. While I do find the Ultegra a bit nicer than the 105 the CR1 frame is so light and stiff that it flies when you want to accelerate or climb. I have not ridden a Zurich so I can't comment on the frame comparison but I can say I love my CR1

I'm 5'8" with a 32" inseem. I ride the 54 frame and it fits well. I think based on your inseem a 52 would be a good fit.


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## b24fsb (Dec 21, 2006)

im not saying to upgrade right off the bat. ride the bike till you wear stuff out or get a killer deal on something. but good tires are some conti grand pre 4000's @ like $50 a tire and it a nice upgrade. a good lighter wheelset (1500g or less) is $300-500. that is about the price difference for a zurich. and as for a new groupset. well just ride the 105 till you actually have problems with it.

also $2200 is high for a cr1 team. at my the shop i work at we sell them for $2000 normal and put them on sale for $1900


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## steve314 (Mar 15, 2007)

b24fsb said:


> im not saying to upgrade right off the bat. ride the bike till you wear stuff out or get a killer deal on something. but good tires are some conti grand pre 4000's @ like $50 a tire and it a nice upgrade. a good lighter wheelset (1500g or less) is $300-500. that is about the price difference for a zurich. and as for a new groupset. well just ride the 105 till you actually have problems with it.
> 
> also $2200 is high for a cr1 team. at my the shop i work at we sell them for $2000 normal and put them on sale for $1900



The $2200 includes pedals, cages, computer, and tax; it's selling for $1999. I'm glad to hear the lbs is where others are on price.

Do you race? Do mid-range fast rides or long distance? I'm looking for a versatile bike that can do long distances without killing me, but mostly I do 25-40 miles. I have a friend who has the Team and rates it an 8 on comfort; he does a 60-70 mile ride every weekend.

Some part of me psychologically keeps saying that if I'm going to put in this kind of money, I should get Ultegra--but Ultegra on the Scott is another $800 and I'm having a hard time justifying $3000 for a bike when I'm not a racer (or yet, anyway). And a lot of people are saying that there's not a lot of difference between 105s and Ultegras in the end.


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## b24fsb (Dec 21, 2006)

ok then $2200 is spot on for the price. Im 25 so for me the comfort of the bike is great. I would call it a 9.5 on a 1-10 scale (i think the SLR seat is comfy though). I dont "race" but i am training for next seasons crit races. I ride about 100 miles a week. I do 2 rides during the week, one is a 26 mile that avg. 25-27mph the other is a 20 mile that avg. 20-22mph. then i do 40-80 miles on the weekend that is only 18-20mph, depending on how much time i have or how much drinking i have done. so in reality i do fast and long, its a great ride on both. 

now for the ultegra vs 105....well i will agree the ultegra brakes just a bit better but i think that is because the brake levers are longer for more leverage. 105 still brakes good to me though. 

I purposefully bought the team because i liked the way the team bike looks (red/white/carbon) vs the pro (all yellow). planed to upgrade the goupset and the wheels, i just wanted the frame and fork really. I have put about 1500 miles on so far and i really like how it rides and preforms from the factory. I just picked up campy record shifters/der. so ill be changing to that next week and i plan on picking up a set of easton carbon wheels for next race season. 

I really dont think that you will notice the differnce in the pro vs the team by just the groupset. I really would say go with the team, the frame is going to be lighter and "snappier" than the zurich.


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## santosjep (Jul 15, 2004)

*2007 Scott CR1 Team*

I just recently bought a CR1 last week from my LBS but I had it built up from the frameset up. I asked the owner of the lbs what the major difference is with the SL (Team issue) and the Pro (Pro and Team). He probably over simplified it but he said "Just 100 grams." So, I took both for a ride and I couldn't determine the difference in climbs, descends and sprints. So, I decided to save a few $$ and just get the Pro frameset.

Anyway, I don't really have any experience with the Lemond and I'm sure it's a fantastic bike but personally, I'm quite please with my CR Team build. A poster earlier mentioned that you'll probably upgrade your bike a couple years later by changing the group or even a wheelset. I feel that the Pro frameset can actually grow with you. 

I do agree with 105s and the Ultegras do not have that much difference in shifting. At least from what I can tell. Maybe after a year of using both systems, I would be able to detect sorts of dissimilarities between the two. My suggestion is that, if you get the Team bike, use the 105s and upgrade later to DAs. Plan accordingly and save up. 

Here's my CR1 Team bike build up:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=103284

Hopefully the cycling gods will be smiling at me come December so I can put this bike on a pair of Fulcrum Racing 1s.

Good luck with your decision.

Joe


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## steve314 (Mar 15, 2007)

santosjep said:


> My suggestion is that, if you get the Team bike, use the 105s and upgrade later to DAs. Plan accordingly and save up.


Sweet bike, Joe--makes me jealous.

I'm curious: how much would it cost (parts / labor) to put on a Dura Ace group?


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## santosjep (Jul 15, 2004)

*DA upgrade?*



steve314 said:


> Sweet bike, Joe--makes me jealous.
> 
> I'm curious: how much would it cost (parts / labor) to put on a Dura Ace group?



Well.... it could be as low as $856 w/shipping.

http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=A8058

Joe


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## steve314 (Mar 15, 2007)

You're much faster than me. I'm 37 and have been riding since last August on a borrowed '82 Schwinn Voyager that weighs like 32 pounds, but I've dropped 25 pounds and can keep up on a weekly 30+ mile ride with a few guys who average 18-19. I'm really looking forward to getting a lighter bike with integrated shifters.

It's interesting that the responses in the Scott forum seem to have come from more serious riders than the ones in the LeMond forum. 

You've really helped me feel good about the Team and the 105s; it seems like the smart move without sacrificing the racing pulse feel about the frameset and its zip. I'm curious: how much to add a group like Ultegra or Dura Ace later on? 

I need to get the lbs to take a look at me on the 52; they've gotten the 54 to feel good, but it doesn't look like it should fit with the seat so close to the top tube. I'm 5'8'' with a 30" inseam and, I'm told, a long torso but short arms. The owner of the bike shop—a guy I've really come to like, who's lent me a Scott twice for 30+ mile rides to test it out and is a super decent guy and in fact is the reason I kept going back to look at Scotts, which weren't really on my initial list of bikes of interest—has said he'd recommend a 52 if I were racing, but he's worried that it would sacrifice comfort and the range of fitting options. (That last item is referring to the fact that, given what I've been riding and that it's a size too big, I don't really know yet and won't for a few months how exactly I want the bike set up.)

Anyway, thanks for the feedback--it's very helpful.


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## b24fsb (Dec 21, 2006)

santosjep said:


> I asked the owner of the lbs what the major difference is with the SL (Team issue) and the Pro (Pro and Team). He probably over simplified it but he said "Just 100 grams."


the 2007 SL (880g) uses high modulus fiber (HMF) carbon while the 2007 team and pro (980g) uses "normal" carbon. this is why the SL is 100 grams lighter. the 2006 SL and pro used HMF and the 2006 team used the "normal" carbon


steve it seems that you are to caught up in the groupset that is coming on the bike, even 105 is going to be light years ahead of your 82 schwinn. a DA group will run you $800-1100


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## steve314 (Mar 15, 2007)

But labor? Do you do your own bike work?


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## steve314 (Mar 15, 2007)

b24fsb said:


> steve it seems that you are to caught up in the groupset that is coming on the bike, even 105 is going to be light years ahead of your 82 schwinn. a DA group will run you $800-1100


Did you see my reply just before this one? 

And just for information down the road (far, far downt the road), how much labor to put on that DA group? 

And finally, LeMond puts out that their Triomphe series frames (like the Zurich) weigh 950 grams, which is slightly less than the Scott frame??? Or is one the frame and the other the frameset? It seems to me the whole stock Team bike is just over 17 pounds without pedals. I can't seem to find what the whole stock Zurich weighs.


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## santosjep (Jul 15, 2004)

*labor and frame size*



steve314 said:


> But labor? Do you do your own bike work?


Yes I do my own builds sometimes. The Scott was built by my LBS and at the same time a benefactor of a team discount.  I'm pretty sure that when you upgrade to DA in a couple of years your LBS would be more than happy to accomodate. Usually a group exchange would run from $50-$150, depending on the LBS.

With regards to the frame size. In my experience, I go with the smallest frame I can fit. I'm 6'1'' and ride 56cm bikes when traditionally I should be riding 58s. Well, granted I do have a shorter torso in relation to my legs, I feel that I have more control on a smaller framest than a bigger size. For my crit bike I use a 56 with a 130 stem. With my other bikes, 56 with a 120. This is just my personal preference.

Again... good luck with your decision.

Joe


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## b24fsb (Dec 21, 2006)

well I work at a shop so yes i do my own labor, I do tech work and sales. so i know how a bike should fit and how to size people up. its been my experience that whatever someone is in a normal frame they will end up being 1 size smaller on a scott. try the 52 i really think that is going to be a better fit for you. you actually limit yourself more if you go to a 54, meaning you cant go much lower on the seatpost and the shortest stem i would want to put on a bike is 90mm. what size stem is on the 54 that you have test ridden. the most a shop should charge is like $150 to change the groupset out. I


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## b24fsb (Dec 21, 2006)

nevermind


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## steve314 (Mar 15, 2007)

*Well, I bought it ...*

and I'm psyched. I went with the Team, size 54, which actually ended up having more fitting wiggle room than the 52. I might need it tweaked once more, but so far it seems to fit very nicely and it rides beautifully. I rode the Zurich and the Team back to back on Tuesday before buying, and the Team really was "snappier" and handled more like a sports car whereas the Zurich felt a little plusher. It ended up being an easy call, really. 

I've made it out for a couple short rides but I'm going out tomorrow for my usual rolling hills 35 mile weekend ride. I can't wait to attack some of the hills I've been lugging the 34 lb. beast up.

Thanks for everyone's advice—very helpful.


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## santosjep (Jul 15, 2004)

*What? and no pictures? -- How rude. *



steve314 said:


> and I'm psyched. I went with the Team, size 54, which actually ended up having more fitting wiggle room than the 52. I might need it tweaked once more, but so far it seems to fit very nicely and it rides beautifully. I rode the Zurich and the Team back to back on Tuesday before buying, and the Team really was "snappier" and handled more like a sports car whereas the Zurich felt a little plusher. It ended up being an easy call, really.
> 
> I've made it out for a couple short rides but I'm going out tomorrow for my usual rolling hills 35 mile weekend ride. I can't wait to attack some of the hills I've been lugging the 34 lb. beast up.
> 
> Thanks for everyone's advice—very helpful.



Congrats with your purchase. I is indeed a nice looking bike...  Have lots of fun....


Joe


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## b24fsb (Dec 21, 2006)

alright man good to hear!!!


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