# Trek carbon help



## wradom (Mar 28, 2015)

*Trek carbon - 500 vs 600 vs 700*

Does anyone know the difference between Treks 600 and 700 carbon? I have searched on this a lot and haven't really been able to find any substantive information (weight difference, durability, flexibility, anything...).. Genesis of the question is the difference in madone h1 h2 and domane slr/pro endurance geo slr... As far as I've been able to find the only difference between each is a paint job and $1500..


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

The higher the number, the lighter the bike.

You won't notice anything else any different.


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## wradom (Mar 28, 2015)

But between 600 and 700 is the difference simply from the difference in geometry and shorter headtube?


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

100. 

but seriously nothing you will likely notice or feel. the higher number is supposed to justify the higher price


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

wradom said:


> But between 600 and 700 is the difference simply from the difference in geometry and shorter headtube?


No...as MMs posted it's weight pure and simple. If you look at the geometry charts you'd find that Domane's have their own geometry and the Madone/Emonda share the same geometry. It's also explained on the Trek site, they are different grades of carbon. The other thing you can learn from the Trek site is that they don't always use the 'highest' grade carbon on all the high end frames. The Madone 9.9 uses 600 series carbon but the Emonda SLR is 700. Different materials for different constructions/ride qualities. It has nothing to do w/ geometry.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

wradom said:


> But between 600 and 700 is the difference simply from the difference in geometry and shorter headtube?


I know nothing about these particular bikes, but to get at the "how different is the frame" question, you need to compare the components. The best way to do this is to find comparable bikes in other brands and see how their component groups change with a given price change. If the difference in price between the two bikes appears to be from differences in components, then likely the frames would be pretty similar. 

Recognize that bike companies often have far fewer frames in their lineup than they have bikes - the put three different level component groups on the same frame and call it three different bikes.


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## wradom (Mar 28, 2015)

This is what I suspect. Which is really annoying because I do want a frame with the more aggressive geometry but I don't want to spend 1500 more just to satisfy some marketing gimmick...


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## wradom (Mar 28, 2015)

cxwrench said:


> No...as MMs posted it's weight pure and simple. If you look at the geometry charts you'd find that Domane's have their own geometry and the Madone/Emonda share the same geometry. It's also explained on the Trek site, they are different grades of carbon. The other thing you can learn from the Trek site is that they don't always use the 'highest' grade carbon on all the high end frames. The Madone 9.9 uses 600 series carbon but the Emonda SLR is 700. Different materials for different constructions/ride qualities. It has nothing to do w/ geometry.


Sorry but you are a bit mistaken here. Trek offers the Emonda SLR in two geometries with both the H1 and H2 setup in the 700 level carbon, but the other two (Madone 9 and Domane SLR) are offered in the H1 setup with 700 (which I presume is the number of fairies used to put together) and H2 setup with 600... Apart from telling us that 700 is "better" than 600, is there anything to back that up apart from marketing?


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## Drone 5200 (Mar 3, 2003)

It seems like you are asking more about geometries, than about materials. There is no mystery about the geometries. Charts are posted for each bike on trek's website, and of course your local trek dealer could let you take a test ride. 

The carbon material is best to worst: 700->600->500->400. And of course trek is quick to say that the 400 is super awesome carbon with just about all the benefits of the 700, where as the 700 is unobtainium used-by-the-pros, etc. 

Here's a publicly available copy of the 2016 Trek Retail Guide. 

https://issuu.com/penncycle/docs/2016_bike_retailer_guide1

On page 23, 24 and 25 there is some info about the carbon and its differences that you don't usually see on the trek website.


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## spdntrxi (Jul 25, 2013)

wradom said:


> But between 600 and 700 is the difference simply from the difference in geometry and shorter headtube?


weight...

geo wise it's H1 H2 and so on... just sometimes you might not be able to get H1 in 600 series carbon kinda thing.


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## wradom (Mar 28, 2015)

You are correct.. All I'm looking for is a bike frame with isospeed and aggressive geometry (hence the madone or domane)... Unfortunately the only way to do that is buy a $4000+ frame... What a cruel world.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

wradom said:


> Sorry but you are a bit mistaken here. Trek offers the Emonda SLR in two geometries with both the H1 and H2 setup in the 700 level carbon, but the other two (Madone 9 and Domane SLR) are offered in the H1 setup with 700 (which I presume is the number of fairies used to put together) and H2 setup with 600... Apart from telling us that 700 is "better" than 600, is there anything to back that up apart from marketing?


Yes, in that single case of the RSL H1 bike the frame is 700 series. Well, that's the number that is on the frame. As with any high end carbon frame the entire frame isn't constructed w/ any one type of carbon. If you used 'high modulus' carbon for an entire frame it would either break or no one would want to ride it. Trek claims that they are the only manufacturer that gets this grade of carbon from the particular manufacturer...apparently the only other users are military/space programs. I have no reason to not believe them in this case, but who knows? 
The difference in construction is that the higher end frames end up having many more 'pieces' of carbon cloth in the layup. They use a lot of smaller more precisely cut bits to get the weight down.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

wradom said:


> You are correct.. All I'm looking for is a bike frame with isospeed and aggressive geometry (hence the madone or domane)... Unfortunately the only way to do that is buy a $4000+ frame... What a cruel world.


Or a -17* stem?


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## wradom (Mar 28, 2015)

Looks like this will be the answer unless trek comes out with something new in the next month.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

It works great if you ask me. -17 is the least aggressive stem I use. Helps with aerodynamics as a bonus.


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## wradom (Mar 28, 2015)

I think the best way around this wasn't actually obvious, but the trek boone frameset has the proper geometry and features (600 carbon but who cares), also it's half the price. 3mm difference in BB drop I can handle.. 

Per Trek gearing won't be an issue either "The 2018 Boone can accept a max of 46t for the small ring and 56t for the large ring when using a 2x crank."


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