# Shifters: Record vs. Chorus.....



## durkind (May 24, 2004)

I am going to switch over from Shimano (mix of Ultegra/Dura Ace) to Campy Chorus. But was thinking of spending extra for Record shifters. Is there a notcible difference. When I upgraded from Ultegra to Dura Ace shifters I did notice much smoother shifting. So with that experience was wondering if there will be a diference in campy. Thanks


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

durkind said:


> Is there a notcible difference.


no...


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## RoyIII (Feb 24, 2007)

The chorus shifters are excellent. I have a set [2006] on a cannondale that are so good it is hard to see how record would be an improvement. The word record always is a plus on the lever, however. I'd get the record shifters.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

RoyIII said:


> The word record always is a plus on the lever, however.


Yeah...you do get the word "Record" on the shifters, but really no performance advantage at all. Maybe a smidge lighter also, but I haven't kept up on weights cuz it's silly.


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## awiner (Aug 28, 2007)

Weight is the difference.


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## RoyIII (Feb 24, 2007)

...and welcome into the light!


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

awiner said:


> Weight is the difference.


How much? I bet it's the weight of a couple paperclips.


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## rellimreeb (Jul 29, 2007)

I thought the 07 records have ball bearings and the 07 chorus shifters have bushings.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

millerinva said:


> I thought the 07 records have ball bearings and the 07 chorus shifters have bushings.


If so then things have changed. My Y2k Chorus shifters have bearings.


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## rellimreeb (Jul 29, 2007)

I was just going by the campy website. http://www.campagnolo.com/compare.php?gid1=1&cid=3&pid=8&gid2=2

but it's a bit confusing because it doesn't call out ball bearing for the front chorus brake, but there's a ball bearing graphic on the caliper, so who knows. It's hard to tell from the parts diagrams


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## flakey (Feb 8, 2003)

millerinva said:


> I was just going by the campy website. http://www.campagnolo.com/compare.php?gid1=1&cid=3&pid=8&gid2=2
> 
> but it's a bit confusing because it doesn't call out ball bearing for the front chorus brake, but there's a ball bearing graphic on the caliper, so who knows. It's hard to tell from the parts diagrams



Didn't the OP ask about the difference in shifters?

Both Record and Chorus ergopower internals rotate on two cartridge bearings.

The differences are:

They use the same index gear but the Record is drilled out to make it lighter
The Record spring carrier is composite where the Chorus is alloy
The Record inner shift lever of the Record is composite with a small patch of carbon fiber on the finger paddle. I am pretty sure the Chorus is the same composite just without the bling patch of carbon fiber.

Chorus is the best value and will perform just as well as Record.


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## awiner (Aug 28, 2007)

Brake Set Campagnolo Record-D Skeleton | Black 279.00g
Brake Set Campagnolo Chorus-D Skeleton | Silver 326.00g

Brake Shift Campagnolo Record QS Ergopower 324.00g
Brake Shift Campagnolo Chorus QS Ergopower 348.00g

Crank Campagnolo Record Ultra Torque Carbon 172.50 39-53 643.00g
Crank Campagnolo Chorus Ultra-Torque Carbon 172.50 39-53 679.00g

Front Derailleur Campagnolo Record QS 69.00g
Front Derailleur Campagnolo Chorus QS 74.00g

Cassette Campagnolo Record TI | Titanium | 12-25 160.00g
Cassette Campagnolo Chorus | Steel | 12-25 220.00g

Rear Derailleur Campagnolo Record | S 184.00g
Rear Derailleur Campagnolo Chorus | S 202.00g

Chain Campagnolo Record Ultra 230.00g
Chain Campagnolo Chorus Ultra 258.00g

Bottom Bracket Campagnolo Ultra-Torque | Aluminum 49.00g

Cable Campagnolo Stainless | 120.00g

Housing Campagnolo Campagnolo | Black 160.00g



Record Total:2218g (4.88 Lbs)


Chorus Total:2463g (5.37 Lbs)


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## Davoosie (Mar 17, 2007)

Shifting on the Record shifters are smoother and more positive due to the use of ball-bearings in the shifters, comparted to bushings in the Chorus and below. Take it as you will. I noticed a difference, some do, some don't.


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## rellimreeb (Jul 29, 2007)

flakey said:


> Didn't the OP ask about the difference in shifters?
> 
> Both Record and Chorus ergopower internals rotate on two cartridge bearings.
> 
> ...


He did ask about the difference in shifters, but I was just relaying my confusion on the brakeset too.
The Record shifters aren't that much more expensive, and they do say RECORD on them.
Thanks for the tech info.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

Davoosie said:


> Shifting on the Record shifters are smoother and more positive due to the use of ball-bearings in the shifters, comparted to bushings in the Chorus and below. Take it as you will. I noticed a difference, some do, some don't.


Unless things have changed Chorus have the same bearings Record does.


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## FTF (Aug 5, 2003)

Bocephus Jones II said:


> Unless things have changed Chorus have the same bearings Record does.


Yeah, they are called brass bushings. They did away with bearings a few years ago in record. Atleast I'm pretty sure.... Needless to say the differences are pretty much cosmetic, either way.


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## flakey (Feb 8, 2003)

Davoosie said:


> Shifting on the Record shifters are smoother and more positive due to the use of ball-bearings in the shifters, comparted to bushings in the Chorus and below. Take it as you will. I noticed a difference, some do, some don't.


 Wrong. 

Chorus shifters have always used cartridge bearings exactly like the Record and still do.

As I posted previously the The Record and Chorus shifters are almost indentical both externally and internal. Besides both models rotating on two catridge bearings, they use the same index gear except the Record has a few holes drilled in it to reduce weight.
They use the same index springs.
The Record spring carrier is composite vs. alloy on the Chorus. This is not a moving part so there is no affect on the shifting feel, its to reduce weight.


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## RoyIII (Feb 24, 2007)

Centaur has bushings; Chorus and record bearings, IIRC.


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## nerdag (Oct 23, 2005)

millerinva said:


> I thought the 07 records have ball bearings and the 07 chorus shifters have bushings.


'07/'08 Record and Centaur are almost identical parts - including the ball bearing. The only differences (as far as I see from the spare parts diagrams) are the shift assembly, brake levers, and holes in the index gear in Record.

n


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## Chompers (Feb 3, 2004)

I also look at the component replacement price. Say you throw your cash down and get a record group, then after a couple months your wrapped up in a crash and bent that rear derraileur. Nothing like being broke and having to hang a Centaur rear deraileur you Record bike. For a 1/2 Lbs. I go Chorus.


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## audiisaac (Aug 18, 2006)

Can you replace the bushings from Centaur shifters to cartridge bearings?


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## flakey (Feb 8, 2003)

No.

The body is molded differently for each type. You cannot upgrade or downgrade a shifter from bushing to bearing.


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## ghostzapper2007 (May 22, 2007)

I'd be extremely surprised if anyone in a blind test riding a disguised Chorus, Record or Centaur shifter could accurately tell which is which with any statistical meaning in a series of trials. Placebo effect plays a large part here, and for many who drop coin on Record I'm sure that Mr. Placebo convinces them it feels better, shifts smoother, or is perceptably different. If Chorus or Centaur shifters were disguised as Record I'd wager no rider could consistently differentiate which is which, and that would be true even if Centaur uses a bushing versus a bearing, which probably has much more to do with durability than ones ability to feel a difference in a shift. Most guys I know who buy Record have Record on all their bikes and do not even bother buying Centaur or Chorus so I have no idea how they'd really know how one shifts better or worse than groupos they do not ride? Adjust the drivetrain properly and they'll all shift great, same with Shimano sets IMO.


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## odeum (May 9, 2005)

*true, but what you can't see from the diagram is*

the index gear is teflon coated. after setting up and riding both, a, er, few times, it is noticable to me that the record right side shifts with less pressure needed, esp to the thumb button. also there is a quieter shift. the chorus takes a bit more pressure and makes a bit more clacking noise. not much diff, granted. i almost prefer the tactile feedback from the chorus over the record.
also, after overhauling, rebuilding and replacement of internals the record shifts with even
less pressure and noise when thoroughly greased, there is little grease from the factory, and this makes a noticable difference also.
the reason i could almost go with the chorus is when shifting on bumpy roads, or when deep in oxygen debt, the chorus takes less finesse than the somewhat touchier, though arguably more instantly responsive record. chalk it up to the teflon coating is my take on it.
they do share lotsa parts, anywhere you see the -rec suffix onna campy p/n across the groups you know it is what is used on record. 
shimano can't touch (claim) this.





nerdag said:


> '07/'08 Record and Centaur are almost identical parts - including the ball bearing. The only differences (as far as I see from the spare parts diagrams) are the shift assembly, brake levers, and holes in the index gear in Record.
> 
> n


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## Guest (Oct 30, 2007)

FTF said:


> Yeah, they are called brass bushings. They did away with bearings a few years ago in record. Atleast I'm pretty sure.... Needless to say the differences are pretty much cosmetic, either way.


A friction bearing (bushing) is still...well...a _bearing_ basically.


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

lol, I can't believe there is so much confusion about whether or not chorus has ball bearings or bushings. Prior to the introduction on the QuickShift feature (and labelling), the LHS chorus shifter clearly states in big bold white letters on the front of the hood "BB-system".... guess what BB stands for?


ghostzapper2007 said:


> ... and that would be true even if Centaur uses a bushing versus a bearing, which probably has much more to do with durability than ones ability to feel a difference in a shift. ...


That's why i did it. Best gruppo decision ever. I bought my (mainly centaur gruppo) individually but sprung for chorus shifters. I paid roughly 200USD for the last of the alloy lever NOS chorus shifters over centaur, b/c in my mind it was built better/last longer. At the time, there was maybe 30 bucks difference between the two on eBay. 

The same is also true of the old square taper - the centaur BB (different acronym!) was cheaply and not as well build as the chorus/record design, it also had a wider q-factor. I sprung for chorus BB and record alloy cranks back then, because it was a superior design... (again, really didn't cost much extra)..... and 'upspecing' isn't always a WW or cashed up thing... all the things that had no functional/quality difference (brakes, deraileurs, pedals and now my new UT cranks are all centaur).. :thumbsup: 

speaking of shifter weights.... i think due to the revised Escape mechanism, the current centaur is actually lighter than the current chorus. Funny that.

ps: to actually answer the OPs question, i believe record/chorus are functionally and quality wise identical...


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## brujenn (Nov 26, 2007)

How about that the Xenon crank is lighter than mirage, veloce and centaur...

"speaking of shifter weights.... i think due to the revised Escape mechanism, the current centaur is actually lighter than the current chorus. Funny that."


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## clm2206 (Sep 12, 2006)

flakey said:


> No.
> 
> Hi
> 
> The body is molded differently for each type. You cannot upgrade or downgrade a shifter from bushing to bearing.


Wrong. You can. I've crashed and broke both Record bodies. Bought Centaur bodies with smaller hole and drilled the hole wider to the Record diameter. Mounted it all again and it is working fine.

Both Centaur and Record bodies are the same except for the hole for the bearing. 

At that time, Centaur bodies worth $12 each and Record bodies $38. 

Regards


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## flakey (Feb 8, 2003)

Wrong 

Sure, you got lucky with some dremel tool modification by increasing the inner diameter of the bushing which allowed the central pivot to fit, but you cannot install cartridge bearings into a ergolever bushing body or bushings into a cartridge bearing body.

You did not convert the body, you just made the guts of your Record fit the new Centaur body.


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## clm2206 (Sep 12, 2006)

flakey said:


> Wrong
> 
> Sure, you got lucky with some dremel tool modification by increasing the inner diameter of the bushing which allowed the central pivot to fit, but you cannot install cartridge bearings into a ergolever bushing body or bushings into a cartridge bearing body.
> 
> You did not convert the body, you just made the guts of your Record fit the new Centaur body.



You're right in the sense that as is, Centaur and Record bodies are different, but there was no big deal with increasing the inner diameter of the Centaur body. 

By the way, I did convert the body. I'm talking about a 2003 Record vs. Centaur bodies. I've not seen the internals of the 2007 Centaur yet, but on modles preious to 2007 bodies are exactly the same, the only difference is the hole diameter.


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## flakey (Feb 8, 2003)

clm2206 said:


> You're right in the sense that as is, Centaur and Record bodies are different, but there was no big deal with increasing the inner diameter of the Centaur body.
> 
> By the way, I did convert the body. I'm talking about a 2003 Record vs. Centaur bodies. I've not seen the internals of the 2007 Centaur yet, but on modles preious to 2007 bodies are exactly the same, the only difference is the hole diameter.


Did you put the cartridge bearings and bearing spacer from your Record shifters into the Centaur body? 
That would be converting a bushing body to cartridge bearing body.
If you did, that would mean you removed the bushing, bored out two holes (one in the front side and one in the back) the exact diameter and exact depth of the two cartridge bearings.


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## clm2206 (Sep 12, 2006)

flakey said:


> Did you put the cartridge bearings and bearing spacer from your Record shifters into the Centaur body?
> That would be converting a bushing body to cartridge bearing body.
> If you did, that would mean you removed the bushing, bored out two holes (one in the front side and one in the back) the exact diameter and exact depth of the two cartridge bearings.


Yes, that's exactly what I did. As I said you before, you can do this with Centaur/Record levers up to 2006. I don't have dissasembled a 2007 Centaur yet, but it seems it should be done the same way.


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