# Biopace vs SR Ovaltech/Sugino Cycloid



## bbulmann (Aug 22, 2012)

Hi all,

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience riding on Suntour or Sugino's elliptical cranksets, the Ovaltech and Cycloid, and how they compare to Shimano's Biopace in ride quality and feel.

Two quick things on how this came up: First, this thought came to me when it was time to replace a couple worn chainrings on the old Sakae triple crank currently powering my otherwise all-Suntour Alpha equipped touring bike. I decided I'd really like a Biopace triple. But then I remembered that Suntour made their version, the Ovaltech, and even though the Biopace rings would be compatible with my drivetrain, it would be fun (or maybe just nostalgic) to keep it all Suntour. It is my understanding, however, that the Suntour and Sugino versions were more simplistic and purely elliptical, whereas the Biopace rings were more heavily researched and engineered to a specific and unique contour at specific angles. (Sheldon Brown describes the difference between Biopace and their alternatives, at least from a design and engineering perspective, in terms of their "dynamic" vs "static" elliptical qualities.)

Second: Please, this is not a thread to bash Biopace. If you don't like Biopace, that's fine. I like them, and they have their virtues. Remember, several long distance and transcontinental records were broken on Biopace rings, including the transcontinental tandem record set by Lon Haldeman and Pete Pensyres in '87 which still stands to this day.
People will debate Biopace til the end of time... but today, I'm looking for input from people who have experience riding on Ovaltech or Cycloid. I've seen both, and they do look more simplistic than biopace, but I never had the chance to ride them.

Thanks in advance! I love these forums.

Brent


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## crossracer (Jun 21, 2004)

Its been a long while since most people have rode those rings. My guess if they arnt that expensive get a set and try.

I allways liked the Bio pace idea. But if im remembering right, they were really designed for a lower cadence, not running at 90-120 cadence. 

Bill


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## bbulmann (Aug 22, 2012)

Huh, why didn't I think of that. Try 'em out for myself. When I come across an Ovaltech crank, I'll see if I can snag it cheap and compare... although I might be waiting a while. (There's one on eBay now for $66 shipped. A bit much for me.) Curiously, the last Ovaltech crank I saw had 173 arms. Maybe simply another way to separate their product line from Shimano's 172.5.

The connection between Biopace and specific cadences was actually a misconception that grew out of poor marketing by Shimano. (Shimano originally said that Biopace was "optimized" for steady cadences under 90, but mostly as a way to market them to the booming mountain bike segment; thus, they were all triples, mostly Deore or Exage, except for a few 600 cranks they made for triathletes.) The reason a lot of people ride Biopace rings on fixies is that they actually work very well at higher cadences, especially helping fixies go downhill fast with little or no bouncing in the saddle. By the time Shimano realized the reputation Biopace was getting, they introduced a 2nd generation of rings marketed at road cyclists, but it was too late... Everyone thought ovalized chainrings were a gimmick. It's a shame; it was a very well engineered product that delivered incredible results. I guess if there's no replies after a while, I'll be doing my own comparison and posting my impressions. There's gotta be someone who's ridden on an Ovaltech or Cycloid crank though... I'm not curious enough to throw $50 plus the time changing it just to find out. At least not yet.

Sheldon Brown has a great, more detailed article on his website about Biopace and the alternatives that followed. It's a good read.


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## crossracer (Jun 21, 2004)

Sorry if you think my response was stupid. I've been on these forums for many years and there just isn't any interest in ovalized chainrings. Like I said, I rode them 25 years ago, most peoples experiences will be the same as mine. 25 years is a long time to remember what a chain ring can or can't do.

Everyone is different. I don't think 66 bucks is a lot to spend on a experiment if you think it will help you. But again, just havnt seen anyone here posting about those rings over the years. 

Bill


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## bbulmann (Aug 22, 2012)

Hi Bill,
I didn't think your response was stupid at all. I appreciate your input. I just see bikes for sale with Biopace cranks on them quite frequently, (although yes, like old Schwinns, there's more for sale than I see on the road), and I'm simply hoping that someone may have an Ovaltech or Cycloid that they can share their experience about. I think there is more interest or experience out there with ovalized rings than most people are willing to admit. The only facts I know for sure is that at least some of the long-distance cyclists are still riding on first-generation Biopace and people are still buying those chainrings new (or NOS on eBay),, but I don't know if any of them are on these forums.


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## Gregory Taylor (Mar 29, 2002)

_I'm not curious enough to throw $50 plus the time changing it just to find out. At least not yet. _

Well, be prepared to get out your credit card, because I strongly suspect that, at least here in this particular forum where Biopace _enthusiasts_ are apparently a bit thin on the ground, you will have a hell of a time scaring up anyone who is still riding Ovaltech or Cycloid or who can be arsed to try and remember what it was like. However, I have absolutely zero doubt that, in some dark little corner of the internet, there is a place where Oval Acolytes - _The Elliptical Lords of the Ovoid 'Ring _ - gather together to keep the flame burning for that halcyon period in the 1980's when hair was big and bicycle chain rings weren't necessarily round. 

In other words, _good luck there, pal._

If it were me, and I was as big a fan of older oval-ringed cranksets as you appear to be, I might look for a set of Suntour Ovaltech rings. You aren't going to be satisfied until you actully try it out and, well, Suntour stuff is really cool. I have to think that if you dig you can pick up a set of rings for well under $50. Heck, even at that price it's around the cost of a good tire. Go on...splurge.


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## bbulmann (Aug 22, 2012)

Gregory Taylor said:


> _I have absolutely zero doubt that, in some dark little corner of the internet, there is a place where Oval Acolytes - The Elliptical Lords of the Ovoid 'Ring  - gather together to keep the flame burning for that halcyon period in the 1980's when hair was big and bicycle chain rings weren't necessarily round._


That's an even better idea! I shall grow my hair long again, bite the bullet and splurge on a good Ovaltech crankset, and set out on a quest to find the Knights of the Oval Table on my Ovoid-powered tourer in true style. I actually might do that next summer. I wonder in what state (of the US, not state of mind) I would find them.


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## Gregory Taylor (Mar 29, 2002)

Well you might start your Quest in Egg Harbor Township, New Jersey - you can't get more ovoid than that. Plus New Jersey is one of the spiritual homes of Big Hair. 

Egg Harbor Township, New Jersey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## crossracer (Jun 21, 2004)

Good luck. It's an interesting topic and will be interested to hear how it goes. 
I would say that most bikes that are for sale with these rings havnt been ridden at all lately. They have been sitting in a garage or basement. Since these rings are about 20-25 years out of date, any biker riding them would have replaced them many times by now.

Im still a professional mechanic, and in the last twenty years I havnt seen these rings on active bikes. I've seen two sets of complete shimano AX groups, and even one still functioning mavic Zap system. 
But no biopace. 

Good luck to ya. 


Bill


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## bbulmann (Aug 22, 2012)

*Diagram outlining different rings*

Diagram outlining different rings:

Welcome to Unroundly Ringuses

I found this diagram that someone made tracing the outlines of the chainring shapes of the 3 older non-cyclical rings- BioPace, Ovaltech, and Cycloid- as well as the newer generation, Rotor Q-rings and O.Symetrical.

It shows that the Ovaltech is much closer in shape to Biopace than the Cycloid- in fact, almost identical.

Also important to note is that the older and newer rings were designed for different purposes, and essentially aim to achieve the same advantage but 90 degrees off from each other by putting the highest gear ratio at either 12 and 6 o'clock or 3 and 9. This diagram was made simply to compare shapes without regard to their orientation on the crank. As stated in another post in a Google forum:

"A*Biopace ring the chain engages the maximum chainring diameter*(greatest gear ratio) when the pedals are respectively close to top*and bottom dead center. With most other ovals (meaning the newer generation), the maximum chainring*diameter occurs when the power pedal is at three o'clock or slightly*below - the point at which it is presumably easiest for a rider to*exert maximum torque.*Hence, a comparison of shape alone offers little basis for full*comparison."

Many people have rotated Biopace and Ovaltech rings by 2 bolt positions on the crank to move the higher gear ratio away from the top, although since it isn't truly 90 degrees (it's 72), you can't put it right at 3 and 9. I even read one person who rotated their Q-rings 2 positions back to try and do the opposite. There's a whole thread over at Bikeforums.net if it interests you.

I'm gonna go with the Ovaltech triple for my touring bike and keep it all Suntour. After seeing this diagram, it appears that a Biopace-Ovaltech comparison would be futile.

Long live Suntour.


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