# Question re: gear ratios (I think)



## Tucker44 (Apr 6, 2010)

I find that when I'm climbing a steep incline and am in the smallest gear on the front and on the largest gear in the back, I cannot "spin" the front like I do on my mtn bike on steep climbs. I find I end up working way to hard and burning out my quads. I'm thinking that my bike's granny gear is too large and that it would help if I had a slightly smaller diameter gear...is this something one can do or do you have to replace all three gears? Am i talking nonsense?


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## Guylum Bardot (Jun 10, 2011)

Depends on what set-up you have. What set-up do you have? Sure you can swap out gears front or back. A cassette swap to something with a wider range... maybe a 28 might help. What are your specs now? Or what model you riding?


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Tell us what your gearing is, and how steep are these climbs.

Apparently you already have a triple, so it's likely you have pretty low gears for a road bike.

One issue, common in mt bikers who start road riding, is a matter of riding style. Climbing on the mtb, you generally sit and spin, in part because high-torque standing efforts cause a loss of traction (both because of the high instantaneous power in the middle of the power stroke, and the forward weight shift). Traction isn't a serious issue on pavement. You can stand up, push hard, and shift weight way forward, and the rear wheel won't slip. 

The bottom line is that road cyclists, even if they climb grades just as steep as you do on the trail, don't typically try to sit and grind the steepest bits. They stand up sometimes. The different position recruits different muscles, and avoids that quad burn.

So my advice, before you start changing equipment, is to work on climbing out of the saddle.


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## tystevens (Jul 10, 2008)

What gearing do you have right now? Compact, triple, standard double? You can determine this by counting the number of rings on the crank, and the number of teeth on each ring. The number of teeth is also probably stamped on it somewhere. Same thing with the rear cassette -- how many teeth on the largest cog?

I have a compact on the front (34 teeth on the small ring, 50 on the large). My bike came with either a 23 or 25 tooth large cog on the cassette, I can't remember. I switched to a cassette with a 27 tooth large cog. It made a fair amount of difference, as I could more easily spin up hills. Plus, I got in better shape. X2 about what JCavilla said regarding standing up. It certainly helps to stand occassionally on a climb, and is easier than standing and climbing on the MTB. I have to fight the tendency to accelerate when standing in order to avoid getting burned out quickly. Just imagine you're on an EFX or stairmaster machine -- just keep a constant pace and do it for a few minutes. It helps to vary things up and use different muscles.

Of course, it'll never spin as easy as the mountain bike, where you probably have much lower gearing, like a 22 tooth small ring and cogs with 30+ teeth on the cassette.


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## Tucker44 (Apr 6, 2010)

I'll count them tonight b/c I'm not sure...it's a triple.

Yeah, I do need to work on the standing, b/c I ride like a mtn biker (in the saddle) often on climbs. I do have a problem burning out my quads too fast though when I do stand...


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Tucker44 said:


> I'll count them tonight b/c I'm not sure...it's a triple.
> 
> Yeah, I do need to work on the standing, b/c I ride like a mtn biker (in the saddle) often on climbs. *I do have a problem burning out my quads too fast though when I do stand*...


They you're still not doing it the vest way. Try getting more forward, and more upright. Hands on the hoods, knees almost hitting the bar. Let the bike sway a little, It almost feels like running with a high gait, or using an elliptical trainer stairstepper, as ty said. It'w much easier on the quads than climbing seated. I suspect you're sitting too far back.

Check out some video of good pro climbers, like Contador.


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## Tucker44 (Apr 6, 2010)

Ok, on the granny gear, I've got 30 cog teeth...how is that helping or hurting my climbing given the facts in the original post?


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## Guylum Bardot (Jun 10, 2011)

So 30 smallest up front... What is biggest gear on the cassette out back? 23? Could swap it out for a larger one, maybe 28, but with a triple I would think you wouldn't need to. How steep are these inclines anyway...?


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## fivekabob (Sep 16, 2008)

So 30 smallest up front... What is biggest gear on the cassette out back? 23? Could swap it out for a larger one, maybe 28, but with a triple I would think you wouldn't need to. How steep are these inclines anyway...?



I have the 30/28 on my 2004 Trek 2100 triple and I only use it for extreme inclines...In the LA area..last 1/4 mile of Mandeville and first 1/2 mile of the southern start of Western Ave...in San Pedro...Other than that, it's good to have though....:wink:


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Tucker44 said:


> Ok, on the granny gear, I've got 30 cog teeth...how is that helping or hurting my climbing given the facts in the original post?


I'd say with 99% certainty that you don't need lower gears, unless those hills are 20% walls. You need technique and training.

BTW, you realize that when you said "30 teeth".you didn't answer the question all those folks asked you? A gear ratio is a RATIO -- there has to be 2 numbers. We don't know what your lowest gear is unless you tell us how many teeth are on the biggest cog in the back.


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## Tucker44 (Apr 6, 2010)

ok, I'll check...obviously I'm learning this stuff...

Not sure of the inclines, but I'm talking about the very steepest part of the west side of Vail Pass, and the climb up Loveland Pass, both in Colorado....esp. Loveland Pass. I really struggle on the steep sections and burn out from pedaling against too much resistence...I do see my technique is at fault, but also maybe the set up? Anyway - I'll check later on.

edit - just looked up Loveland, max grade = 9%


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## fivekabob (Sep 16, 2008)

Not only do you have a steep mountain climb but I presume those are some high elevations at those passes. I'm sure at my fitness I would struggle up there even with my triple...lol. My 10-12% for 1/4-1/2 mile start at only a few hundred feet above sea level.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Tucker44 said:


> ok, I'll check...obviously I'm learning this stuff...
> 
> Not sure of the inclines, but I'm talking about the very steepest part of the west side of Vail Pass, and the climb up Loveland Pass, both in Colorado....esp. Loveland Pass. I really struggle on the steep sections and burn out from pedaling against too much resistence...I do see my technique is at fault, but also maybe the set up? Anyway - I'll check later on.
> 
> edit - just looked up Loveland, max grade = 9%


Those are serious climbs. Even if the steepest sections don't go on too long, and aren't steepest roads in the world, the length of the climbs matters a lot. You can use all sorts of techniques and equipment for a short stretch, but miles of climbing is another matter.

You probably want a pretty big cog in back, but you may already have that. Working on standing efficiently, and switching positions often, will help a lot in keeping that burn away and keeping the muscles fresh. That's how the pros do it, and it works. Get up, get forward, and dance on the pedals like Alberto.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Is your bike fitted? If you're noticing more difficulty on the road bike, perhaps your position is making you do more work than an efficient pedal stroke.


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## Tucker44 (Apr 6, 2010)

Ok..the largest rear gear has 26 teeth...what does that tell you?


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

You could put a 12-30 cassette on there. Shimano road rear derailleurs can shift onto a 30t cog.
IRD makes 12-30 cassettes.


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## Tucker44 (Apr 6, 2010)

So how does that help my riding? Is it an easy fix or should I bring it into a shop? What does the 12 mean?


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## fivekabob (Sep 16, 2008)

Tuck, to answer the your second question...the 12 refers to the smallest gear/cog on the rear cluster. So a 12/30 refers to the smallest and the biggest gear. Of course the 12 would be the gear you use on descents while the 30 would be used for climbs...

For me since I have a triple in the front, the 30 in the back might be over-kill because on the steepest of hills, suspect that the fastest I would be able to ride with that combo would be perhaps less than 4 MPH...


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Tucker44 said:


> Ok..the largest rear gear has 26 teeth...what does that tell you?


What it tells me is that unless you're just getting into this and still in pretty bad shape, or you're pretty big or heavy, or you're carrying a lot of touring gear on your bike, you probably have low enough gears to handle those hills. Just work on technique and conditioning. Stand up sometimes. Start thinking like a roadie, rather than a mountain biker. 

And resist the temptation to go flat out when you stand. A lot of people have this idea that standing is for brief intense efforts only, so they overdo it. I suspect this is one of your issues. You can find a rhythm that will let you pedal out of the saddle for minutes at a time, at the same aerobic level as spinning seated. Switching back and forth will get you there in better shape.


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## Guylum Bardot (Jun 10, 2011)

JCavilia said:


> And resist the temptation to go flat out when you stand. A lot of people have this idea that standing is for brief intense efforts only, so they overdo it. I suspect this is one of your issues. You can find a rhythm that will let you pedal out of the saddle for minutes at a time, at the same aerobic level as spinning seated. Switching back and forth will get you there in better shape.


Sounds good and I have been working on this as a newb to road too. While standing for any length of time, not bursting but just varying up my stance, I find it much easier to mash more and spin less. Maybe this is common... Maybe I am wrong... Works for me.


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## Tucker44 (Apr 6, 2010)

so does having a 30 in the front and 30 in the back help make climbing a little easier, compared to a 30 in the front and 26 in the back?

I will also work hard on the technique advice given above..thanks.


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## fivekabob (Sep 16, 2008)

It would make the steepest climbs a bit easier with the 30/30 than the 30/26.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Tucker44 said:


> so does having a 30 in the front and 30 in the back help make climbing a little easier, compared to a 30 in the front and 26 in the back?
> 
> I will also work hard on the technique advice given above..thanks.


Tucker, we're being very indulgent answering repeated questions here, but you're going to have to start using your head a little bit and start figuring out how these gear things work. Otherwise it will never make sense to you and you won't use the equipment well. You can figure out the answer to the question you asked above.

When you shift gears now, are you aware of which direction to shift to make the gear lower and the climbing easier? You are, right? You know that the the 30x26 is your lowest (slowest, easiest) combination, right? You know that it's easier (lower, slower) than the 30x23 that's the next one down. And that one is easier than the 30x19.

Well, then it follows that a 30x30 would be even lower (slower, easier). Right?

The ratio of the front gear to the back one is what matters. It can be expressed in several different ways, but the important thing is that you get to lower gears by using a smaller ring in the front, or a larger cog in the back, or both. Conversely, you get higher gears by using bigger in front, smaller in back. That's why your lowest hill-climbing gear is smallest front, bggest in back, while your fastest downhill gear is biggest in front, smallest in back.

You'll get it.

Have a nice weekend. I'm outa here. peace.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

In even simpler terms, think of it like a simple math equation. If you have a 30 up front and a 30 in back, every time you pedal, the wheel turns once. If you have a 50 up front and 12 in back, the wheel will turn 4.17 times each time you pedal. 

Back to my original question, if you feel like you're burning up and your other bike doesn't feel that way, are you sure things are set up correctly?


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## Tucker44 (Apr 6, 2010)

no, I do get that, but all your explanations confirm it...thank you...

I do think things are set up correctly (had it fitted when I bought it) but just noticed the big difference btwn riding up steep slopes on my road vs mtn...sounds like I really just need to work on technique before making any changes...


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I hedged on posting this because parts (IMO) aren't really geared for beginners, but I think most anyone could benefit from its content:
http://www.cptips.com/climb.htm


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## Tucker44 (Apr 6, 2010)

So I rode this weekend up Vail Pass and focused on some of the techniques that people mentioned above...getting out of the saddle on the short, steepest part (maybe 11%, @ around 10,000') helped for sure...leading up to that spot, I was in granny gear, and on my biggest gear in back, and then got up and lost some balance/over spun pedals, until I had to up shift a few gears...at the top of the pitch, my legs felt shot, even though i tried to go slow. Do people typically stay standing for long stretches of pitches that steep, or alternate? I tried to imagine if I had to keep standing for a much longer stretch with that steepness, I didn't think I could do it.
One thing someone mentioned was to sit back more on the uphills for more leg power...that helped A LOT.


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## fivekabob (Sep 16, 2008)

You did great. At that elevation and incline, it's supposed to be tough.


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## tystevens (Jul 10, 2008)

fivekabob said:


> You did great. At that elevation and incline, it's supposed to be tough.


x2. That's a pretty good climb. If you weren't tired at the end of it, you would have been doing it wrong! IMO, if you completed the climb, you don't need lower gears. If you could not complete it, and are in pretty good shape, maybe you need something else. But, it sounds like you're doing pretty well. I wouldn't change anything.

Again, your road bike gears are never going to be as low as your mtb -- you probably have a 22/32 combo available on the mtb, which is a couple crank revolutions per tire revolution. The 30/26 you have is about as low as you'll conventionally find on a road bike, without installing a mtb drive train.

good luck!


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## Tucker44 (Apr 6, 2010)

sounds good...just didn't know if my bike was effecting my riding...still new to cycling after doing a far amount of mtb...


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