# Nose Up Saddle Tilt



## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Is said to aid in forward pelvic rotation. I've had a slightly nose up saddle for ever, but am trying a bit more radical position to see if I'm missing anything. I'm mainly interested to see if it will take pressure off my permanently injured low back. It seems counter intuitive to me so I thought I'd ask if anyone has more info or experience with this?


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## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

Plenty of people do it. It's just much rarer than the "level" saddle that you always see. But it is more common than say a nose down position.


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## smoothie7 (Apr 11, 2011)

I had my tilted down just a couple of notches past level and I found that with several of my bibs I would slide just a little on the seat consequently adding extra pressure on my hands and wrist. Tilted it up and no longer have the problem. Life is good.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

Raising the nose of the saddle will tilt your pelvis back, but if you change nothing else you're using pressure on you perineum to push the pelvis back. Is that a good idea?

I think tilting saddles back makes the most sense if you are also raising your bars and sliding the saddle aft of KOPS. This is a position that Rivendell advocates. I don't think it is a superior position to the traditional KOPS/road race position, but it accomplishes the goal of rotating the hips without beating up your junk to do it.

Saddle design and position are a huge balancing act - literally. How do you get pressure off the hands and soft tissues while keeping the rider balanced?


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

Saddle nose up won't encourage forward pelvic rotation. 

If you have a lower back that is in constant pain then I would level the saddle as that would allow your pelvis to move forward as you wouldn't have the nose putting as much pressure on your junk. 

Level saddle and adjusting seat post height is where most will find comfort if they're having a back problems. A saddle too high will stretch the hamstrings and over hours of riding can cause back problems.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I also position my saddle slightly tip up and FWIW have some lower back issues (unrelated to cycling), but in this instance since yours is already tipped up, I would suggest experimenting with saddle to bar drop. Some riders subscribe to the belief that dropping the bars has minimized lower back discomfort (while others raise them). This, of course, assumes a proper reach, because too little/ too much can also exacerbate the condition. 

As with any fit adjustment, keep changes small and make them slowly, always recording starting points in the event they have to be reversed. And keep in mind that adjustments to bar (mostly drop) _may_ require adjustments to saddle tilt.


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## firstrax (Nov 13, 2001)

BMX'rs have been doing that for years.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Thanks guys. I was reading Steve Hogg's site regarding bike fitting which led me to John Cobb who fits certain riders with an extremely low front end and a lot of saddle tilt nose up to achieve "forward pelvic rotation" as he puts it. Cobb seems to indicate that for many the low front end may not be possible due to flexibility and functionality but he does incorporate the nose up saddle tilt just the same. I'll be doing some more experimenting today...


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## chad-wl (May 6, 2008)

I recently went from a -2 degree tilt to a +2 tilt on my saddle, along with changing my stem from a -8 to a -17 drop (Specialized stem that does +/- 8 and 17). 

My reasoning for this was that my previous position was putting to much pressure on my hands, back and shoulders.

I think that I may drop the saddle tilt a tiny bit closer to level to allow for a little bit less soft tissue pressure when in the drops, but I think that it was a positive move tilting closer to level.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

It doesn't make sense to tilt the nose of the saddle up unless you've got a major drop to the handlebars and you're trying to keep yourself from sliding forward. 

I'll never understand why the average joe needs such an aggressive position especially if it's likely to cause discomfort.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

heathb said:


> *It doesn't make sense to tilt the nose of the saddle up unless you've got a major drop to the handlebars and you're trying to keep yourself from sliding forward. *
> 
> I'll never understand why the average joe needs such an aggressive position especially if it's likely to cause discomfort.


This is what I am trying to understand after reading what Cobb wrote. Not sure if I can post what he wrote here, but the information is on Slowtwitch.com. Steve Hogg's info is under copywrite so I can't cut n' paste here. 

Aggressive, relaxed, whatever. I'm just interested in the forward pelvic rotation for now. If saddle tilt slightly up can help then it will be a huge win for me.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

heathb said:


> It doesn't make sense to tilt the nose of the saddle up unless you've got a major drop to the handlebars and you're trying to keep yourself from sliding forward.
> 
> I'll never understand why the average joe needs such an aggressive position especially if it's likely to cause discomfort.


Not true in my experience. I have a pretty moderate ~7cm saddle to bar drop and find that tilting the saddle tip up slightly gets me a near ideal f/r balance - and that (IMO) is the primary goal. I didn't do it to keep from 'sliding forward' and I experience no discomfort because my weight is supported at the sit bones. 

JMO, but from what I've read here and elsewhere, the folks that are averse to this concept think in somewhat extreme (for lack of a better word) terms. We're talking small changes (or tweaks to fit) here and oftentimes counterintuitive 'remedies' cure a given riders fit issue(s).


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

PJ352 said:


> Not true in my experience. I have a pretty moderate ~7cm saddle to bar drop and find that tilting the saddle tip up slightly gets me a near ideal f/r balance - and that (IMO) is the primary goal. I didn't do it to keep from 'sliding forward' and I experience no discomfort because my weight is supported at the sit bones.
> 
> JMO, but from what I've read here and elsewhere, the folks that are averse to this concept think in somewhat extreme (for lack of a better word) terms. We're talking small changes (or tweaks to fit) here and oftentimes counterintuitive 'remedies' cure a given riders fit issue(s).


Agree with the above...it's all about the balance and weight distribution for me...


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

+2 for balance and weight distribution. Here is a pic of what I'm talking about. Axles are level and the saddle in this shot is slightly nose up (not sure of degrees...bubble is just out). Drop when saddle is level is 7.5cm. Slightly more here.

View attachment 235893


View attachment 235894


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Well, what I think is happening with a touch of nose up is that I have a tendency to roll the pelvis forward (onto the softer tissue) to keep my position on the sweet spot of the saddle. Obviously, there is a point where the angle will be too steep causing too much pressure/pain. I should explain that I don't have really any pain when I ride. I'm interested in preventing further injury to my low back.


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

Kontact said:


> Raising the nose of the saddle will tilt your pelvis back . . . .


That makes sense to me, but seems to run counter to what the OP believes. Is there really a view that it helps in rotating the pelvis forward as the OP seems to have found? I've recently been having issues with numbness one one side of my lower back (starting from slightly below the top of my pelvis and extending up to around the bottom of my ribs) and have been experimenting with a slightly downward tilt at the front of the saddle to try to alleviate it (after riding a level saddle for years).


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

woodys737 said:


> +2 for balance and weight distribution. Here is a pic of what I'm talking about. Axles are level and the saddle in this shot is slightly nose up (not sure of degrees...bubble is just out). Drop when saddle is level is 7.5cm. Slightly more here.


I'm curious---is this how "level" is generally measured, e.g., putting the bubble level across the rear edge and nose of the saddle? The rear edge of many saddles turns back up to a greater or lesser degree, which has a real effect of what position is "level" for a given saddle. I have previously read (although I can't remember where) that putting the rear edge of the bubble level at a point where the saddle is 100 mm wide (or at its widest, or just forward of where it tilts up at the rear edge, with the key seeming to be to take away the impact of the rear edge's upward turn) gives a more meaningful view of "level"---what do others mean by "level"?


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## PoorCyclist (Oct 14, 2010)

I use a digital level and place bike in a known level spot, and make adjustments in 1/2 degree increments, it's easiest to go out on a ride (or a few) to see if things are better. 1/2 degree seems to be the increment that you may feel a difference but not enough to drive you crazy. 

Recently I felt the saddle has changed and the digital level verified the tilt got moved slightly.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Not sure how an expert fitter would do it? I've seen it done this way, the way you describe and putting a level on a board which is sitting on the saddle. All by different fitters. LOL! Either way, I guess it's all relative to the rider as long as you know where you start. I mean I don't really care if it's dead balls level because I'm going to change it by feel anywhoo. Lastly, as you can see my level is about 19 feet long so getting any kind of reading the way you describe is next to impossible. HomeDepot again.

edit: Just checked Park Tools site for reference and they set a board on the saddle with the level measuring that surface. Carry on!


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