# Help me climb better



## rcekstrom (Oct 4, 2008)

Hills are my nemesis. I feel like I can do flats all day long at a good tick, but throw a hill in and im done. 

Im a high cadence person, sorry no meter, but i know I'm more comfortable in the small ring (compact), and if i get to the big ring i bump it up to the taller rings in the back to get my cadence up a little.

I'll be going along fine with the occasional rolling hills only to turn the corner to see a major climb. I keep my cadence as long as possible and my speed will slooowly decrease, as expected by downshifting to keep cadence. Before i know it im only 1/2 way up and im out of the saddle b/c my legs are mush. 
Once at the top I am exhausted and recovery time seems to take longer than reaching the bottom of said hill.

So I know my problem is probably conditioning and mental defeat, but any tips to get there faster?

I live in Eastern PA, but my riding abilities are in KS where its flat.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

1. lose weight
2. get fitter


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

1. Convince yourself you like climbing. The pain feels good.

2. Repeat 

3. see #2


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## rcekstrom (Oct 4, 2008)

1. Got it
2. Thank you


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## SlowMo (Apr 18, 2006)

rcekstrom said:


> Hills are my nemesis. I feel like I can do flats all day long at a good tick, but throw a hill in and im done.
> 
> Im a high cadence person, sorry no meter, but i know I'm more comfortable in the small ring (compact), and if i get to the big ring i bump it up to the taller rings in the back to get my cadence up a little.
> 
> ...


Although I don't disagree what the other posters stated, I'll try to be a little more convincing. 

I'm not a professional climber in the pro peloton, but do climb well (in my own mind). 

I simply got better by attacking any/all climbs. While I'm sure you can read about the weight vs. watts, etc., I don't think you're interested in that (nor am I well versed in it, but you can find it on here somewhere.) The only way to get better at climbing is to simply continue to climb. I personally won't go on a training ride where I know it's going to be flat. I have no interest in riding flats. I love to climb. I ride solo 90% of the time, but regardless of going solo or in a group, I want there to be hills. (Flats are extremely monotonous anyway.) 

When I say attack: I personally don't go for the high RPM's like a lot of folks do. I really enjoy hammering a bigger gear. I don't try to maintain a mandatory high cadence (90-110) like some (although avg I might be close on the lower scale), but make sure that I'm not rocking back and forth like a boat either.

I read an article a while back that said to start a climb off in the easiest gear you think you can settle into at the bottom of the climb. Once you've started the climb, instead of downshifting, try to maintain or shift into a higher gear as you get towards the top of the hill _or whenever you feel like you can_. Once you crest the hill, don't slow down, but continue on. 

I hate to spin (as I stated above). One thing I did try last year that I think was pretty successful: I got a SS early in the year geared at 48x16 to help with my climbing power/strength and I simply love it. 

That's my $.02 - I'm sure some might disagree completely; but I'm happy with what I'm capable of doing.


Forgot to mention: I do hill intervals at least once a week as well....


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## DesnaePhoto (Jun 11, 2009)

I feel your pain. When I got back into cycling, I hated to climb. Which really bothered me, as I loved it previously. how did I get better at it? not being a smart-a$$, I climbed. I rode more, got fitter, and lost weight. Now I love to climb. the one thing I miss about SoCal is the ability to ride the mountains. 

the mental thing is the hardest. pick a route that is something you can do repeatedly. The first time you do it, it will be tough. But you DID IT! The next time, (not necessarily the next day -- give yourself time to get more fit and lose weight) - you can tell yourself "I already did this. now I can do it faster/easier." Then again. And again. 

The other thing I focused on is how much fun the downhill is. It IS ok to stop at the top and rest. Be recovered so you can enjoy the downhill. 

HTH


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## thegock (May 16, 2006)

*Not much of a climber*

I was not much of a climber four years ago. My annual competitive event is Hillier Than Thou, a Century time trial (drafting permitted) with over 10k of vf. Therefore, I had to learn how to climb.

Early in the year, which is a period that we are at the end of now, I focus on spinning up big hills and try to do no standing at all. That being said, on Saturday's ride where we started out with 12, there was only one guy with me at the end of the two mile climb in the middle of 50 miles. When the stronger riders show up, like in the Wednesday night world championships, I can't finish as many climbs as I would like with them.:cryin: But you need to ride with strong climbers to get strong.

Now, beginning Saturday, I will start to add volume (miles) and begin to attack the climbs standing up. I find that I get my best times on the climbs that I do regularly while standing. These climbs are 300-400vf and take well under ten minutes. Because there is so much climbing in Hillier Than Thou, I plan to spin up many of the early climbs. That being said, there are quite a few climbs in the race that you can't climb in the saddle without the dreaded front wheel levitation. Therefore, you have to develop that strength to climb steep grades standing up. 

My program is to start to do hill repeats in June and ramp up my volume until a couple of weeks before the race in September (taper). You won't need a big hill but it should be steep with a significant section that has pitch, at some point, of more than 10% and an average pitch of about >=6%. In Eastern PA there should be hundreds of them. You can work your way up to a few thousand vf over time but just do it a couple of times to start out. Alternate spinning and standing and alternate hard attacks with easy ascents. Don't forget to make it a safe road with limited car traffic and a good, clean surface. It helps to have a good place to run out and turn around at the bottom. Stay safe between climbs. The best riders that I ride with don't rush the descents while training.

You should try this both spinning and standing and find out which is faster for you. I palp the compact, too, and it gives you another option-a good thing.

You should also hit the trainer and spin class to do some high intensity standing. Those 40lbs flywheels are tough to push at max resistance. 'Only you control your own resistance', as they say.

Just a few (10?) miles of running per week should help you cut weight as suggested above. I also will try to cut back on the ice cream and Double Stuff Oreos (go big or go home) soon. The bike does make a difference. My C-50 is much stiffer and a pound or two lighter than my Roubaix that I rode Saturday. But the engine matters more. It won't happen in a week but you can improve your climbing.


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## rcekstrom (Oct 4, 2008)

I appreciate the responses guys, You hit the nail on the head in several areas, and as much fun as hill repeats sounds its obviously true. Just like curling reps when working out.


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## Morris Buttermaker (Jan 4, 2010)

It's amazing how weight can really affect you too, I spent a good part of my youthful life at a low body fat percentage, my metabolism slowed in my later 20's early thirties and I put on about 10 lbs. I ride about as much as i used to but those "stubborn" 10 lbs really don't help me climbing.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Some tips to help out.

1. When riding in a group, if you know a hill is coming up...move to the front of the pack before the hill and slowly fade backwards on the climb. This is called the "Pack Slide". This allows you to maintain contact with the group, or not get dropped as bad because you have others to guage your effort off of and in some cases draft off of.

2. When climbing solo, pick things up the road and focus on them. So pick a tree 100 meters up the road and maintain your cadence to that tree...once past it, pick another target and so on. This gives you things to chase as you climb and keeps your mind focused on other things besides hard breathing and lactic acid build up.

3. Alternate between sitting and standing. The heavier you are the more you will climb seated...but you still need to get out of the saddle from time to time. Seated and standing climbing works different muscles so when doing one or the other you are working some muscles while letting others rest.

4. Find out where you are most comfortable and most powerful. For me it's in the drops, so I climb 90% of climbs in my drops...regardless of the grade % of the climb. For others it's the hoods or bar tops. In the end being comfortable helps a lot.

5. If it's a rolling hill...attack the steep parts and recover on the less steep parts. Over time you will gain speed up hills because you are basically doing intervals up each hill.

6. Remember sometimes you can't do anything about it. I'm good on hills up to about 5% grade. After that I start falling back fast to the smaller guys. The difference is that I can still draft on a 4%-5% climb, but when it gets above that the speeds slow down and the draft goes away.

Anway...just a few hints...hope they help.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

+1 on sitting and standing. If one seems more painful, work on that! 

Know when a hill is worth going all out or when doing the pack slide. Assuming the OP is in Cat 5, just do the minimum it takes to stay with the pack. Unless you're really heavier than you are strong, staying with a Cat 5 climb usually isn't too bad unless your power (fitness) to weight ratio is kinda bad. Although, it's all out the window if the hill is near the finish or in a course where some climbers could escape. 

A lot of it is setting your pace. If a serious climber tries to set the pace, sometimes you gotta just chill and stick to your pace, depending on how important the hill is. 

By my 120lb build, I'm basically obligated to be a climber.  I consider myself pretty worthless in a sprint, but can put a hurtin' on riders in the climbs. I've never been more than 130lbs, but I consider a low weight to be a very good advantage to have.


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## rcekstrom (Oct 4, 2008)

spade2you said:


> +1 on sitting and standing. If one seems more painful, work on that!
> 
> Know when a hill is worth going all out or when doing the pack slide. Assuming the OP is in Cat 5, just do the minimum it takes to stay with the pack. Unless you're really heavier than you are strong, staying with a Cat 5 climb usually isn't too bad unless your power (fitness) to weight ratio is kinda bad. Although, it's all out the window if the hill is near the finish or in a course where some climbers could escape.
> 
> ...



Wow I am dragging an addl 85 lbs up that same hill.


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## MontyCrisco (Sep 21, 2008)

My climbing has improved as my fitness improved, and really it was without specifically focusing on hill work. Doing different length intervals at different intensities seem to improve my ability to hang in there in the climbs. (OK I also dropped a bit of weight too, but nothing dramatic - maybe 5 lbs).

Also, as above: taking the mindset that I'm "good at climbing" (which is a total lie) has helped me not get intimidated by the big climbs when they do happen.


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## ljfran2383 (Aug 27, 2009)

1. Find a hill
2. Climb the hill
3. Repeat step 2 until you puke


but seriously, I consider climbing to be my strong point, and i'm not the lightest guy ever, at 175 lbs, I do hill repeats once a week, but on all my training rides I sprint up the hills, this seems to work for me, although I'm no coach or expert or anything.


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## MaddSkillz (Mar 13, 2007)

ljfran2383 said:


> 1. Find a hill
> 2. Climb the hill
> 3. Repeat step 2 until you puke
> 
> ...


Good advice. I have a hilly route I hit twice a week but I don't have your approach of sprinting on the hills during my other rides... I should incorporate that.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Are you using hamstring and glute (butt) muscles effectively? Sliding back in the saddle 5-10 mm, can more effectively use those strong muscles. If you're mainly working the quadricep muscles, you'l be at a disadvantage.


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## medimond (Apr 26, 2009)

Go find the longest hill in your area and ride it. We have several in SLC, UT that are over 3k vertical feet of continuous climbing. Climbing them the first time made me feel so good inside .... it helped change my mind on the whole hill climbing thing.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

rcekstrom said:


> I'll be going along fine with the occasional rolling hills only to turn the corner to see a major climb. I keep my cadence as long as possible and my speed will slooowly decrease, as expected by downshifting to keep cadence. Before i know it im only 1/2 way up and im out of the saddle b/c my legs are mush.
> 
> So I know my problem is probably conditioning and mental defeat, but any tips to get there faster?


It sounds like you're choosing too high a gear at the beginning of the longer climbs. It was a long time ago but the first time I realized I could be a climber was when I summited a long climb having gone the same speed the whole way up and still feeling good. If you start off in too high a gear and struggle to make it up every time you are always going to have a negative attitude about it.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

A point comes on all climbs when you reach the limit and fall into labor. When this happens, do not abandon technique. Another important thing for better climbing is to save energy everywhere else. I've known plenty of guys that were hammers on the flat and claimed they couldn't climb. I told them to sit in and not drive the pace and viola! They climbed much better when the hills came. Sounds like a no brainer but we tend to overuse our advantages.


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## rcekstrom (Oct 4, 2008)

I went out Sat morning with the intention of not giving up on the hills like I usually do. 

Following some of the tips really helped my avg spd was higher than usual and I went a longer hillier route. Getting over the mental battle helped alot, pedeling through the pain and screeming I love hills makes for a great ride!


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

rcekstrom said:


> Wow I am dragging an addl 85 lbs up that same hill.


So that puts you right around 205, which means hills are a major pain! I was right at that weight this year when I rode into the hills of Austin 3 weeks ago. If you can get down to 180, for example, you'll find the hills are considerably easier. I'm down to 191 now, and hoping to get down to 180 by next April. 
That's my advice I can add to the above advice.


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## medimond (Apr 26, 2009)

The more you do it, the easier it gets!


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

medimond said:


> The more you do it, the easier it gets!


If it gets easier, then you need to push harder.


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## andym (Oct 4, 2005)

No expert here but I'll offer some tips..
First, I like to have a number to base myself off of. Saturday we (my gf and I) did a mountain time trial on our local 2 mile climb. This will give you real data to show your improvement. Gauging yourself off other riders isn't exact as they will probably be improving too. Just looking at the rider in front of you and saying I finished 100ft behind him will just get you discouraged if you don't gain. Race the clock.
Second, just going out and climbing doesn't work for me. We'll be doing 3 week build for climbing. Some days we'll concentrate on building power, some days we'll work on endurance. After the build block, we'll TT the mountain again and compare numbers and decide where we need to work more. My gf also likes the idea of a structured training program. It keeps us on task.
Third, I'm working on dropping weight. Winter and vacation weren't friendly to me and I found myself 20lbs heavier this spring than last. Of course this option isn't for everyone. Overall my goal is to drop 40lbs and I'm 15lbs toward that goal now. This goofy power calculator I found lets me calculate my time on our TT climb based on the same power output but with less weight. Dropping 25lbs would (in theory) improve my time from 12:01 to 10:25. That doesn't allow for less weight will be easier to hold a higher wattage. Lots of obsession goes into dropping grams on the bike when there are pounds to be lost around the belly.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

Creakyknees said:


> 1. lose weight
> 2. get fitter


3. repeat  

One of my buddies joined me in the Rockies for an organized bike tour last summer. He was already stronger than dirt but weighed about 175 as he was built like a linebacker.

On the way back home, I gave him my inspirational talk about losing weight and climbing. 

So he lost 25 pounds.  

The racers picked a hilly route for the first Tuesday night world championship (for our city) this spring, and of course my buddy couldn't wait to race. He and the 19 year old phenom beat everyone else by about 5 minutes. That would have never happened last year.

But you also have to start loving to climb. If you are skinny, at least you know you've done your best!


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

This isn't advice as such: 
Look for hills and climb. I never avoid the chance of taking a detour on my rides if it has an extra bit of climbing in it. Seriously! The more you climb the more you will like/love climbing and the better you will get. A lot of the trouble people have with climbing is in the mind.
I'm lucky in that every ride from where I live has lots of climbing because I live in a hilly region of Wales, so flat rides are not an option. You may not be as lucky and might have to move house.


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