# Old Bianchi ID?



## JCork (Aug 23, 2011)

This is my first thread on this forum, but I'm definitely not new to the message board world. I belong to forums for Jeeps, Mountain Biking, Drums, and other things as well.

I picked this up for $140 from someone who found it in a barn. I've been searching online for about two weeks now trying to figure out what it is, and I haven't had any luck. I've checked the campyonly timeline, which I *believe* puts my derailleur somewhere in the 50's-60's range, however I have no idea how old the bike is. Here's some pictures:
































































This bike also has campy cranks, pedals, and front derailleur. However, the handlebars say "Sakae Japan", and the front of the stem reads "Custom". Also, the brakes have "Superbe" printed on them, with "sunTour" stamped on the part that rotates when the adjustment lever moves (sorry for my lack of knowledge, this is my first venture into the road biking world) Also, I could not find much serial number information on the internet, however, if anyone here can help or point me in the right direction...."947" is stamped on the top left side of the seatpost tube, and "4.E" is stamped on the right.

ANY help would be appreciated as I'm dying to know what this bike really is. Thanks! :thumbsup:

Also, sorry for the gigantic pictures, and for the subpar dusty lens cell phone picture quality


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## onespeedbiker (May 28, 2007)

Well, I haven't been able to nail down the year and model, but the rear derailleur is Nuovo Gran Sport, which dates your bike 1975-1985 and cranks and hubs look to be Triomphe; 1985-1990 (or so). The headset is C-Record 1986-1990+. 

Edit:Best guess is a 1985-86 Veloce. These are the only years Bianchi made a Triomphe equipped bike. Derailleur and handlebar/brake changes are typical of crash damage.


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## JCork (Aug 23, 2011)

Are you saying the rear derailleur isn't original? Also, what brake calipers, levers, and handlebars would be correct if I wanted to replace with original parts? Additionally, When I looked at the campyonly timeline, it mentioned the nuovo gran sport as far back as te 50's.

If anyone else has any input on this bike please let me know!


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## onespeedbiker (May 28, 2007)

The OEM spec for the Veloce was an entire Triomphe gruppo. This meant Triomphe derailleurs and brakes (levers and calipers). The handlebar was an ITM Europa and the stem was an ITM 200 with black Bianche engraving. 

As far as the Nuovo Gran Sport Derailleur, you are confusing Gran Sport with Nuovo Gran Sport. The original Gran Sport was released in 1951 and continued to about 1967-1968 (possibly longer off catalog). The Gran Sport was released in 1973 and ended with the C-Record era in about 1985.


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## JCork (Aug 23, 2011)

So, are you saying the Nuovo Gran Sport was post-Gran Sport? Or vice versa? I am asking because on the Campyonly timeline, it refers to someone from the Campagnolo family announcing/introducing what he referred to as the "Nuovo Gran Sport" Derailleur in the 50's.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Is there a tubing sticker on the bike? Does it say Columbus SL?
Does it say Repardo Corso on the bike anywhere?
The bike may be a Bianchi that was made in the Mass Production factory, that is next to the Racing Department frame shop.

If so, the bike is worth $150-$200.


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## velomateo (Mar 7, 2009)

I had a very similar Bianchi model to yours. Mine had Chrome on the fork crown, was all Columbus SL tubing and was spec'ed with a Campagnolo Nuovo Record group. Yours is a lower model, possibly Columbus Tretubi - which means the three main tubes of the frame were Columbus and the rest of frame was some other tubing. Frame probably dates to early 80's.
Your bike seems to have a number of different components from different Campagnolo groups. The brakes are Suntour Superbe, which are very nice/desirable brakes. Cranks are Triomphe and are probably original to the bike, I would also assume the shifters and front derailleur are as well. Headset is newer, late 80's Campagnolo - hard to tell which group, because they all look very similar. Seat post is original Nuovo Record, and very cool with the panto B. Those polish up quite nicely with little effort. Rear derailleur is Nuovo Gran Sport, which is pretty low on the Campagnolo food chain and looks to be well used. Someone definitely added that later.
The overall condition of the bike is okay - not great. If it were mine and it fit well. I would replace the saddle, wrap the bars and give it a good cleaning/tune-up. I wouldn't invest a bunch of money in to "restoring" it. You may want to find a clean Nuovo Record rear derailleur to replace the Gran Sport. They can be had for about $35 on ebay. Mr. Grumpy is right on at $150-$200, so once you've spent that much - stop.
Good luck.


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## JCork (Aug 23, 2011)

As you can see in the pictures there are no decals other than the head badge. However, I have now looked at many pictures of veloces online, and the frames look very similar. The only difference I can see is some veloce forks spell out Bianchi instead of just having a B


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## JCork (Aug 23, 2011)

The bike cost me $140, so far I've spent $12 for some honey colored bar tape, $60 on tires and tubes, and I've been looking at a brooks saddle to throw on it. If this bike ends up not being my restoration project, I may hold on to the bike in order to aid in a future restoration. The drivetrain looks rough because the man who owned it before me poured transmission fluid on it to "lube" it. I've wiped the bike down probably once a day since I got it a week ago and I'm still getting the disgusting stuff off of it.

The bicycle is currently missing a front derailleur cable and the rest of the cabling isn't in the greatest shape. I planned on repainting the frame (celeste, of course), and slowly replacing parts such as the brake levers, bars, and possibly replacing the brakes with period Campagnolo brakes. Would this be something that isn't worth my time on a bike like this? It rides great, but everyone is saying its a Bianchi from somewhere near the bottom of the barrel.


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## onespeedbiker (May 28, 2007)

JCork said:


> So, are you saying the Nuovo Gran Sport was post-Gran Sport? Or vice versa? I am asking because on the Campyonly timeline, it refers to someone from the Campagnolo family announcing/introducing what he referred to as the "Nuovo Gran Sport" Derailleur in the 50's.


Okay I see what your talking about and understand your confusion. 



Campyonly.com said:


> _October, Milan show. Tullio Campagnolo, in demonstrating it's operation, refers to this gear as the "Nuovo" Gran Sport (implying "new and improved" over the twin-cable version)_


In this sentence, the writer is commenting on Tullio Campagnolo reference in 1950 to the nuovo (new) single pulley version of the Gran Sport rear derailleur; the original two pulley version was introduced the year before. However this derailleur was not named Nuovo Gran Sport, Campagnolo was simply saying it was a new and better version replacing the old two pulley version. The Gran Sport derailleur, made from bronze and steel continued to be called simply Grand Sport until it was discontinued and the aluminum body Nuovo Gran Sport was introduced in 1973.


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## JCork (Aug 23, 2011)

Aha. That makes sense.

Anyone have any input on whether or not fixing this bike up is worth it? I planned on restoring the frame, possibly with an ebay decal set, and slowly replacing non-matching components. I didn't plan on restoring it in hopes of turning a profit, I just want to have a nice old bike and I'd probably slowly piece the rest of it together as needed/desired.


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## onespeedbiker (May 28, 2007)

I'm going to have to disagree with velomateo a little. Of course I have the advantage of the 1985 catalog which shows your bike in "Metallic Purple" the alternate color to the Celeste for the Veloce that year. It should be noted that the frame is "Bianche Columbus Superset", in other words 4130 double butted chrome-moly. That doesn't mean the bike is not worth restoring, but it does not have any real collectors value. 

The value to restore the bike is the value you place on it. I would have no problem putting in the time and money to clean it up and make it period correct, but I've done it before and I would do almost all the work myself; I figure if God lead me to the bike, it's up to me to make the best of it. If you want to make it period correct, you would want to go C Record era, so a Nuovo Record rear derailleur would be out of place. I also believe the shifter levers are Nuovo record, so you might want to change those. I would stick with Triomphe because the parts are still fairly affordable. The Victory/ Triomphe components don't have a lot of collectors value now, but as time goes by and the other parts dry up, 25 year old Camapgnolo bike components can only increase in price. Currently on ebay someone is selling a Triomphe gruppo; with 10 hours left The levers are @ $19.00, the calipers are @ 29.00 and the derailleur is at 29.00. I doubt they will go much higher. If you want to jazz it up a bit you could upgrade the rear derailleur to Athena; still period correct but much better looking.

As I mentioned before, your front derailleur appears to be C Record Chorus which is period correct; I'm not sure the seatpost is a Nuovo Record; the fluting seems too wide and and top transition looks a little too rough (I'll have to get back to it later), but it a cool looking engraved seatpost and needs to stay. (none of these are OEM but they rock! Handle bar and stem wise, vintage ITM and other period correct are very attainable without spending alot. 

Edit: I checked and most the engraved Bianchi seatposts are Gipiemme; it is a good quality seatpost found on a lot of high end bikes of the day.

So, in the long run you'd spend $200/300 in parts and would have a 25 YO period correct Celeste Bianchi! If it wasn't so small I'd offer to take it off you hands myself.

Below is a page from the 1985 catalog, a Triomphe rear derailleur and an Athena.


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## velomateo (Mar 7, 2009)

Seat post is a two bolt Campy. It's the same post I had (twice) - not Gipiemme. I suggested the NR derailleur because it works & looks better than the existing RD, not because it's the "correct" one. Period correct is fine, sometimes I just don't think it's worth all the trouble.


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## onespeedbiker (May 28, 2007)

velomateo said:


> Seat post is a two bolt Campy. It's the same post I had (twice) - not Gipiemme.


Your right there, I wrote this about midnight last night and it was past my bedtime.


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## velomateo (Mar 7, 2009)

I noticed too that the bike in the catalog has under the bottom bracket cable routing, where the OP's frame is routed on top - so it would seem the bike is earlier than '85, more like '82 IMO.


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## JCork (Aug 23, 2011)

This just confuses me even more. Haha

Does anyone know how or where to get serial number info on this bike?

Or, does anyone know what 947 4.E would mean?

:idea:


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## onespeedbiker (May 28, 2007)

velomateo said:


> I noticed too that the bike in the catalog has under the bottom bracket cable routing, where the OP's frame is routed on top - so it would seem the bike is earlier than '85, more like '82 IMO.


If that is the case, it is probable that whom ever built up the bike, used an older frame to build a Veloce, as none of the components, except the Nuovo Record rear derailleur was available until 1985. However, I noticed in the 87 catalog on VeloBase that a lot of the lower level Bianchi bikes still have the top routing.

BTW, I was not implying you were ignorant of the era of the Triomphe components and mounting a Nuovo Record derailleur is certainly an option. I was simply giving JCork other options. I try not to assume anything, because I'm it usually wrong when I do :idea:


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## Maybeck (Sep 30, 2004)

The bike was a probably a early 80's ('82-'84) Nuovo Racing or Nuovo Alloro model which some of the parts were updated in the mid-later 80's.

This was their basic mid-line tre-tubi road frame, which usually came built up with a mix of Nuovo Record, Nuovo Gran Sport, Gipiemme, Ofmega, Universal, etc. parts in varying degrees over the years. 

Trying to match Bianchi's to catalog specs is mostly folly, and it's hardly worth sweating the details on a midline bike. These were very decent frames and can be built up in many ways to make a practical rider these days.


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## onespeedbiker (May 28, 2007)

Maybeck said:


> The bike was a probably a early 80's ('82-'84) Nuovo Racing or Nuovo Alloro model which some of the parts were updated in the mid-later 80's.
> 
> This was their basic mid-line tre-tubi road frame, which usually came built up with a mix of Nuovo Record, Nuovo Gran Sport, Gipiemme, Ofmega, Universal, etc. parts in varying degrees over the years.
> 
> Trying to match Bianchi's to catalog specs is mostly folly, and it's hardly worth sweating the details on a midline bike. These were very decent frames and can be built up in many ways to make a practical rider these days.


The problem I have with your scenario is either the bike is an 85/86 Veloce, or every single part on the bike was updated in the mid-later 80's. I understand that bikes get be updated, but why would one switch out every single component on the bike just 1-2 years after they bought it? It just doesn't make sense. What makes more sense is someone bought an early 80's frame and built it up with mid-later 80's components. The problem with this scenario is it would have cost half the price to buy the Veloce than to build up a frame with Triomphe components; I'm sticking with the Veloce ID but I reserve the right to declare you and anyone else more qualified than me.


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## Maybeck (Sep 30, 2004)

onespeedbiker said:


> The problem I have with your scenario is either the bike is an 85/86 Veloce, or every single part on the bike was updated in the mid-later 80's. I understand that bikes get be updated, but why would one switch out every single component on the bike just 1-2 years after they bought it? It just doesn't make sense. What makes more sense is someone bought an early 80's frame and built it up with mid-later 80's components. The problem with this scenario is it would have cost half the price to buy the Veloce than to build up a frame with Triomphe components; I'm sticking with the Veloce ID but I reserve the right to declare you and anyone else more qualified than me.


I'm honestly not familiar with the mid 80's Veloce model so maybe that's what it is? But I'm very familiar with that frame and it's the basic mid line used in the early 80's for Nuovo Racing and Alloro models in the US and for who knows elsewhere. Maybe they were still using it in the mid 80's, but I thought all the crowns had changed by then as well as 2nd sets of bottle cages and braze-on front ders?

There's plenty of scenarios that would explain the build though. Many times bike shops stripped frames to use the parts on something else or a different size frame that somebody was ready to buy.

The stripped frames could sit in back rooms for a few years until there was a need for them, then built up with the components of the day.

This still goes on in many small shops. There's lots of Specialized road bikes running around the town I live in that are only a couple of years old that would not match a catalog spec at all. Becuase it is sometimers easier to cobble up a couple of bikes on hand then to tell a customer, "we have to order it".


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## onespeedbiker (May 28, 2007)

Maybeck said:


> I'm honestly not familiar with the mid 80's Veloce model so maybe that's what it is? But I'm very familiar with that frame and it's the basic mid line used in the early 80's for Nuovo Racing and Alloro models in the US and for who knows elsewhere. Maybe they were still using it in the mid 80's, but I thought all the crowns had changed by then as well as 2nd sets of bottle cages and braze-on front ders?
> 
> There's plenty of scenarios that would explain the build though. Many times bike shops stripped frames to use the parts on something else or a different size frame that somebody was ready to buy.
> 
> ...


I didn't want to complicate this post anymore, but I suspected that was exactly what happened. So the question is, does a frame make a model, components make the model, or do the two have to be combined to make model. Either way I like these old work bikes; nothing special at the time but they took a lot of abuse and kept on ticking. The same for the Victory/Triomphe gruppo; it gets no respect but worked as well any of the so called Race components.


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## JCork (Aug 23, 2011)

Thanks to everyone for the input. So far, I've replaced the brake cables, taped the bars up with Deda honey colored tape, put on the Serfas tires in the pictures above, and I'm waiting on a Brooks saddle from another member of this forum. I was bidding on several sets of Campy C-record era levers, but ended up sticking with the gran-compe levers currently installed. Sometime in the future I plan on replacing the bars with ITM period bars, and going through with the campy levers. I still plan on stripping and repainting the frame, and applying a set of original decals, but this won't happen until down the road.

As I said in an earlier post, I'm not trying to make a buck on this build, I just want a nice classic bike.


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## onespeedbiker (May 28, 2007)

JCork said:


> Thanks to everyone for the input. So far, I've replaced the brake cables, taped the bars up with Deda honey colored tape, put on the Serfas tires in the pictures above, and I'm waiting on a Brooks saddle from another member of this forum. I was bidding on several sets of Campy C-record era levers, but ended up sticking with the gran-compe levers currently installed. Sometime in the future I plan on replacing the bars with ITM period bars, and going through with the campy levers. I still plan on stripping and repainting the frame, and applying a set of original decals, but this won't happen until down the road.
> 
> As I said in an earlier post, I'm not trying to make a buck on this build, I just want a nice classic bike.


I thinks it great you are keeping this bike and making it ride-able. Changing or upgrading parts (or making it period correct) is what retro is all about. Lets see some photos!


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## Old Bianchi Rider (Aug 1, 2011)

You said that the bike rode great. Isn't that what you want in a bike? I have two of the relatively cheap Bianchis and I love riding both of them. Maybe ignorance is bliss, but it seems to me you have a bike you like for a very reasonable price and maintenance after the fact is always expensive no matter the bike. Enjoy it. Have fun fixing it up and making it your bike. That's worth something above and beyond the actual value of the bike.


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## JCork (Aug 23, 2011)

This is what I've done so far:

- New brake cables
- A lot of cleaning
- Brooks B17 Champion Special saddle
- Deda Mistral honey bar tape
- Serfas Seca 700x23 tires

Eh?


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## JCork (Aug 23, 2011)

Since the last post I've cleaned the drivetrain even more and installed a new KMC Z-Chain, and a front derailleur cable.

However, upon trying to shorten my front brake cable housing, the cable itself got stuck and wouldn't go all the way back into the housing, and it is now pulled out and frayed, with a few strands missing. Will it be possible to get a new cable into the housing without having to remove the tape/lever/housing from the bars? I hope so, but im not sure. Anyone have any input?


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## SilverStar (Jan 21, 2008)

JCork said:


> Since the last post I've cleaned the drivetrain even more and installed a new KMC Z-Chain, and a front derailleur cable.
> 
> However, upon trying to shorten my front brake cable housing, the cable itself got stuck and wouldn't go all the way back into the housing, and it is now pulled out and frayed, with a few strands missing. Will it be possible to get a new cable into the housing without having to remove the tape/lever/housing from the bars? I hope so, but im not sure. Anyone have any input?


It's possible....but it ain't easy. Dip the tip of the cable in superglue or solder the end before trying it to prevent premature fraying. Oh, and be patient -- it doesn't always work without untaping things.


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## jeremyb (Jun 16, 2004)

JCork said:


> Since the last post I've cleaned the drivetrain even more and installed a new KMC Z-Chain, and a front derailleur cable.
> 
> However, upon trying to shorten my front brake cable housing, the cable itself got stuck and wouldn't go all the way back into the housing, and it is now pulled out and frayed, with a few strands missing. Will it be possible to get a new cable into the housing without having to remove the tape/lever/housing from the bars? I hope so, but im not sure. Anyone have any input?



Great looking refurb! 


Too bad DEDA messed up the looks of that bar tape with that silver logo every four inches


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## charlox5 (Jan 31, 2011)

What kind of drop outs are on the bike?

The headset and brakes are probably not original. The RD looks like it might be, which would then lead me to believe it's a Nuovo Alloro or a N. Racing--though, that would come into conflict with the triomphe cranks. which may be original or not. 

I've got an 83 alloro. it looks very similar. Same location for serial numbers (Seat tube and bottom bracket) with the same format. The C&V forum at BF positively ID'd it as a Alloro, as I was under the understanding that it was a CdI. 

It came to me with Gieppeme dropouts. Nuovo Gran Sport derailleurs, modolo brakes and levers, and ofmega cranks and headset. 3TTT bars and stem. I updated it with Centaur 10, handbuilt wheelset, and a regal saddle. repainted and restored it, and it is my pride and joy. I ride it as often if not more than my titanium lynskey.

This is the condition i recieved it in:









and this is more or less how it sits now:


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