# WSD bike help



## whateveronfire (Sep 27, 2005)

Hi all--

I'm posting for a friend, but I know all the details and want to try to help. Here's the situation...

She's currently riding a Trek 5200 and has come to the conclusion that it's too big for her.

She has major neck and back problems and the long top tube precludes getting her more upright than she is currently (with a really short stem at a high angle). So, she wants to avoid making the same mistake with replacement bike.

We've both come to the conclusion she needs a WSD bike and probably one of the "comfort" oriented bikes to get the shorter top tube and more upright position. She's tested a Trek Pilot, which she really liked...except she will not ride a pink bike and doesn't like the blues on the Treks this year. Bottom line on the Treks would be she'd have to go with Project One (to be happy with the aesthetics) which would ramp up the cost too high. (This all reminds me of the discussion in the Look thread).

She's going to test the Specialized Ruby and the Giant OCR w Composite. The Bianchi C2C is probably out for color reasons.

Are there others she should look at? I know she could go custom steel, but she wants carbon, so custom may be out, given the cost of custom carbon. Her budget (for the total bike) is $1800-2500

The 5200 is full Ultegra 9, but I think 105 10 would be ok. SRAM or Campy would be fine, too. She'd probably rather a compact double than a triple, but I don't think that's a deal-breaker. She talked herself out of that XS Time that sold on ebay yesterday (somebody got a good buy), as the pure racing frames are too long in the top tube.

Thanks for any thoughts.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

*Between a rock and a hard place*

My wife is currently going through the same neck-aching hellfire as your friend. Unfortunately, at least as far as we've been able to determine, the only production WSD worth its salt is the Orbea Diva, and that machine costs quite a bit of salt. Otherwise, you're pretty much stuck with crappy bicycles painted pink. Maybe Terry Bicycles has a decent frame that'll split the difference between horrendous and high-zoot, but I don't know. Of course, a custom frame is a good, if slightly expensive, way to go, too. As an alternative, your friend could take a look at the geometries of the various Italian framebuilders. They're known for their 'square geometries,' that is, geometries where the top tube and seat tube are of near equal length.


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## kermit (Dec 7, 2004)

*recommend Specialized*

After a broken hip and back, I ride for fun and fitness. I wound up with a 2004 Specialized Roubaix comp. Love it. It sits you a little more upright and and I swapped a shorter stem, the bike fits and no problems with soreness. My advice is try EVERYTHING, but Specialized has done it right it my eyes. Whatever you get, make sure you getting a fitting for fine tuning such as saddle and stem. You also might consider aero bars for long rides. Its a different position but gives you more options. My carbon Roubaix was $1999 in the spring, since the new models were coming out. Hope it helps.


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## IronDad (Oct 7, 2003)

Mapei said:


> My wife is currently going through the same neck-aching hellfire as your friend. Unfortunately, at least as far as we've been able to determine, the only production WSD worth its salt is the Orbea Diva, and that machine costs quite a bit of salt. Otherwise, you're pretty much stuck with crappy bicycles painted pink. Maybe Terry Bicycles has a decent frame that'll split the difference between horrendous and high-zoot, but I don't know. Of course, a custom frame is a good, if slightly expensive, way to go, too. As an alternative, your friend could take a look at the geometries of the various Italian framebuilders. They're known for their 'square geometries,' that is, geometries where the top tube and seat tube are of near equal length.


I'd have to say that the absolute best women's bikes are Cannondale's Feminine line. The Optimo Feminine 2, for example, is an excellently designed bike with perfect geometry and components for a woman and it's a FULL Ultegra (no mix-and-match components like other companies do) bike with Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels for under $2,000. The Optimo includes tiny 40 and 44cm sizes with 650c wheels (unlike other companies who try to stuff 700c wheels into tiny frames and end up with all sorts of problems with handling and toe-overlap).

If you prefer carbon you can go to the Synapse Feminine line with the same features but a carbon frame and no tiny 40 and 44cm sizes with 650c wheels.


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## KayTee (Jun 24, 2006)

Your friend should test-ride everything she can until she finds a good fit, regardless of color. If her favorite fit's color is something she doesn't like, have it repainted. IMO fit is way more important than color. She can check out some of the discussion threads about this over on the Team Estrogen forum, there's been much discussion of WSD frames, fit and color.


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## orbit (Feb 7, 2007)

I also currently have a slight back disc problem and have recently gone down the bike purchase route so can understand your friends situation. The specialised fitter I visited determined that the Orbea WSD bikes were the best geometry for me, so I’d suggest your friend give their Dama range a look if the top of the line Diva is out of her price bracket. 

For something a little left of field, Teschner also have WSD bikes http://www.teschnergroup.com/ and also build custom frames. While they are an
Australian company, they have dealers in the US and you might find the exchange rate very favourable.

Good suggestion to look at the Italian frames. I similarly have an aversion to the girly bikes available here, (sadly the Orbea Dama range sold in Aust. is different to that available in the US and is horrible), so this was the path I took. With a bit of swapping of components such as replacing the pre-cut fork to an uncut one plus spacers to give me more height at the front, a 90mm stem and short reach handle bars, I now have a Colnago CLX (full carbon) I love and find really comfortable to ride.

Good luck.


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## IronDad (Oct 7, 2003)

WSD is Trek's label for women's bikes... it's sort of like calling tissue paper "Kleenex" or photocopies "Xerox"... some non-Trek stores might look at your cross-eyed if you mention "WSD" instead of "a bike with feminine geometry" or something like that.


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

In the Specialized line have her check the Roubaix. Although it isn't WSD like the Ruby, it has a longer HT than most comparable bikes and a TT length very close to the Ruby.


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

no offense, but poppycock. Trek may actually use the abbreviation WSD in connection with model numbers, but it is a well-known industry-wide shorthand for women's specific bikes. Any bike shop employee who doesn't know what's being asked for by a shopper looking for WSD offerings should be fired.


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## IronDad (Oct 7, 2003)

No offense but bull caca ;-)

The people I know at Titus, Litespeed, Cannondale, Specialized, Kona and Orbea cringe at the use of the term "WSD" and would say otherwise. They use the terms "woman", "feminine" or "female" and then sometimes add their feminine-sounding name to it (like "Dama" or "Ruby")... but never WSD.

Besides... just because many people use the term doesn't mean it's correct... everyone calls facial tissue "Kleenex" as well ... or ear swabs "q-tips" 

For the OP Titus has a great piece on women's geometry that might be interesting: 
(mountain-oriented and very long but interesting nonetheless)



In recent years, almost every major bike company has come out with frames or bike models claiming to have female specific geometry. What most companies don’t realize is that there is more to properly fitting a female to a frame than just giving their bike a little more stand-over and/or a shorter top tube. A female specific design should take every aspect into account that can affect a woman’s experience on the bike. What this means is that getting the right bike starts with the frame, but extends to the parts as well. It is the entire package that will ultimately determine your overall experience on the bike.

Regardless of your gender, the frame is the heart and soul of the bike. Finding the right type and size frame is difficult enough for most males. If you are a female, the choices become even more mind boggling.

In general, the majority of frames are designed for the average male. What this means is that the geometry and ride quality of most frames are designed for a 5’9” to 6” tall male rider that weighs between 175 and 200lbs. Smaller bikes in the line typically get shorter top tubes and more stand-over with the same geometry, tubeset, and suspension tuning.

For the majority of females, this translates into a frame that is simply overbuilt. A frame built for a 185lb male but ridden by a sub 120lb female will be unnecessarily heavy and harsh riding if it is a hardtail and may be difficult to properly set up the front and rear shocks if it is a suspension bike.

Standard bikes in the smaller sizes will also handle poorly compared to the larger sizes. Shortening the top tube length without adjusting the angles shortens the bike’s overall wheelbase (the distance between the wheels). A shorter wheelbase affects the bike’s stability making the bike less stable. A longer wheelbase is more stable. With most standard frames in the smaller sizes, the wheelbase is too short. The other challenge a female faces is that of overall body dimensions. The typical male rider has a long torso, shorter inseam, and long femurs. Conversely, females are typically long legged, with a shorter torso and short femurs. A female’s fit on a bicycle compared to her male counterpart of the same height can be vastly different.

All is not lost. For the majority of females (5’5” and under), it is time to go looking for a female specific bike! A true women’s specific design will use tubing that is smaller in diameter and lighter than that used on larger sizes of the same model. The result will be a markedly lighter frame with better ride quality. On women specific suspension bikes, the suspension should be tuned for lighter riders as well.

When it comes to fit, a true woman specific design will feature adjusted angles and geometry to fit a female’s body dimensions. Aside from a shorter top tube needed for a comfortable reach and increased standover, the seat angle should be steeper to accommodate a woman’s shorter femur length. The steeper seat angle position allows a woman to be positioned properly over the pedals. The average seat tube angle for both road and mountain non-female specific designs is typically between 72 and 73.5 degrees. The seat tube angle on female specific designs should be between 74 and 75 degrees. This steeper seat angle also contributes to better handling. A steeper seat angle results in a longer, more stable wheelbase. Anything that can be done to get the wheelbase a little more stretched out on a small frame will result in a more stable, better handling bike. This rule also applies to the front of the bike. There is nothing more disconcerting on a mountain bike than having overlap between a rider’s toes and the front tire. Overlap on a road bike is sometimes unavoidable. On a mountain bike, it will negatively affect your entire cycling experience. Having overlap will keep you from being able to negotiate tight turns. The bike will feel twitchy at high speeds, and the front tire will be so close to the cranks that even mid-sized drop-offs could result in a trip over the bars. Because of this, a properly designed bike with woman specific geometry should have a more relaxed (slacker) head angle. The slacker head angle will put the front wheel farther away from your feet. This lengthens the wheelbase resulting in a more stable, better handling bike. A standard mountain frame typically has a head angle between 71 and 71.5 degrees. Women specific designs should be between 69.5 and 70.5 degrees. On road bikes the angle should be between 71.5 and 72.5 degrees.

So, if you’re a female 5.5” or shorter looking for a women’s specific mountain bike, the following should be on your checklist;

* Smaller diameter frame tubes for a lighter, better riding frame.
* Suspension tuned or selected with a light rider in mind.
* A shorter top tube for a comfortable reach from the seat to the bars.
* A smaller frame for more standover.
* A steeper seat angle (74-75 degrees) to prevent toe overlap and lengthen the wheelbase.

What if I’m a female who is taller than 5’5”?

If you’re a female over 5’5”, then the choices and options are even greater. Most of the tips that apply to shorter women still apply to you. You may still have a shorter torso, and longer legs than an equal height male rider and will generally weigh a lot less than your male counterpart as well. However, the need to have a female specific design may not be as important as it is for shorter females. More vertically challenged riders require very small frames with very short top tubes. The short top tube requires adjusted geometry to get the bike to handle correctly. Taller women still typically need a shorter top tube than a man of the same height. Even with this requirement, however, women can generally work around the stock sizes offered by some manufacturers. Finding the right model for your size and weight requires looking at things a little differently than your male counterpart.

First, stay away from models that are built for hucking or jumping. These models tend to be very heavy and overbuilt. Even if you are looking to do more extreme trail riding, chances are that you can get away with something a lot lighter. Always look for the lightest bike you can afford for the type of riding you intend to do.

Second, stay away from bikes with really long top tubes. Fisher calls this “Genesis geometry.” Even though you may be tall enough to stand over the bike, most females will be too stretched out between the seat and the handlebars to be comfortable and in control.

Third, don’t be afraid to consider the next size down. Even bikes with average top tubes may be too stretched out. By going to the next smaller size, you can get increased standover height, a lighter frame, and a more comfortable reach between the seat and the bars. Even if you are running between 9” and 10” of seatpost out of the frame and need to put a slightly higher rise stem, getting the proper top tube length is the most important part of your fit on the bike.

Finally, have the shop change out the seat post and stem if needed. Seat posts come in both zero offset and set back offset models. The choice of post will affect your reach to the bars as well as your position over the pedals. Every one is different, but if the top tube length is in the ball park, most female riders can achieve the proper fit with adjustment made to the seat post and the stem length. Seat posts that have a rear set clamp may place the saddle too far back to allow you to achieve the proper position over the pedals or it may be just what is needed. Seat post designs with the clamping mechanism in line with the post will locate the saddle farther forward. Either way, the goal is have the front of your knee cap in line with or just in back of the centerline of pedal spindle. This measurement assumes the proper seat height and is taken with the cranks level (parallel to the ground) and your knees bent. When a straight line is dropped from the knee cap down to the pedal, the line should fall in line with or slightly in back of the pedal spindle’s centerline. Once you get the saddle positioned properly, you can work on getting a comfortable reach to the handlebars with adjustments to the stem length and rise. For females over 5’5” riding a cross country style mountain bike or a road bike, you should not have to go with a stem shorter than 90mm. If this is the case, the top tube length is probably too long. You should consider looking at a different size or model of bike. If you’re shopping for a longer travel trail bike or DH bike, then it is not uncommon to run stems as short as 30mm. The proper reach to the bars will vary greatly with the style of bike, rider experience, and flexibility. In general, for road and mountain bikes, a good fit will have you slightly leaned over with your back angled approximately 30-45 degrees and the ability to have your elbows bent when reaching to the handlebars. You don’t want to look like Superman stretched out on the bike. Recreational, less flexible and trail bike/DH riders will generally have a more upright position with more bend at the elbows.

So, whether you are tall or small the following should be on your checklist.

* The lighter the better. A lighter bike will do everything better from climbing to descending. If your 180lb male riding friends say a bike is underbuilt or too flexy for them, it is probably just right for you. Remember, it’s your bike, not theirs.
* Top tube length should be at the top of your list. A bike won’t be comfortable or handle well if you are too stretched out. Don’t shop by frame size; shop by top tube length.
* Set the saddle position to get your knees in the proper location over the pedals. Changing to a zero offset seat post can sometimes help get you to the optimal location. You will pedal smoother, climb better, and your knees will thank you.

As important as the frame is, you can’t ride the bike without parts. When it comes to being a female and getting good information on components, you are living in a man’s world. All of the magazine editors are men, most of the marketing is aimed at men, and the majority of the people women cyclists trust for advice are men. Even the author of this article is a man! (Not that there’s anything wrong with that)

The problem is not that we are men (maybe that could be argued). It is just that our perspective is a little off. Just like the frame, women need to view their components a little differently. It is more common than not to see a 5’2” woman with a Marzocchi Z1 Freeride fork and riser bars on her bike because her 180lb significant other has the same parts and “they work great for him.” It is important to look at what works best for the type of riding you are doing, how much you weigh, and how a certain part will affect your fit on the bike. When picking components you need to check your ego at the door (yes, women have egos), because what’s cool for the guys may not be the best for you. If you play your cards right, you can show the guys a thing or two when it comes time to hit the trail.

First, weight matters. It is a lot easier for a 180lb male to pedal and maneuver a 30lb bike up or down than it is for a 115lb female to pedal a 26lb bike. Whether you are a cross-country rider, downhiller or road rider, the overall weight of your bike is very important.

When trying to shed weight, there is no better place to start than the wheels. The wheels are rotating weight. A decrease in rotating weight makes a tremendous difference in the bike’s ability to accelerate, slow down, turn, or climb. Even female downhillers should be looking at wheels that would normally be used by trail riders. Cross-country riders should be looking at light hubs, light double butted spokes and 24 to 28 hole rims.

Suspension forks come in all shapes and sizes. The trend, however, is larger diameter fork legs, stiffer spring rates, and an increase in weight. This is exactly the opposite of what most women need. If you are a light cross-country rider, the RockShox Sid or Manitou Skareb forks are the only way to go. These are the lightest forks on the market. They are easy to set up and are ready to go right out of the box. Lighter riders will not need lighter springs, different oil or a degree in rocket science to figure it out. It is an awesome product for anyone under 165lbs. Trail riders should look at the RockShox Duke Race 100. Once again, it is easy to set up and is very light for the amount of travel it offers. Fox, Manitou and Marzocchi all offer excellent products for the 170lb+ rider. Some of their offerings will work, but they will not work as well as they do for a 170+lb rider without changing springs and oil weight.

Handlebars: Straight or riser, that is the question. Most riders believe that a riser bar will offer the rider more comfort and control. This is true if the rider needs a wider, more upright position. For the majority of females, however, the opposite is true. Most handlebars tend to be too wide for a woman’s narrow shoulders. Also, for shorter riders, the front end of most bikes tends to be a little too high. A riser accentuates the problem. If you are a taller rider needing the extra height, a riser with a little cut off each end of the bar is the way to go. If you are a little shorter, take the time to check out your position on the bike before deciding to go with a riser bar. Most of the time, you will find that the straight bar works out best.

Brakes: disc or v-brake. There are pros and cons to each side. Disc brakes are all the rage. They are very powerful, stop well in wet or dry conditions, and offer a very high cool factor. On the down side, they will add 1.5 to 2lbs to the weight of your bike. The weights are coming down, but they are still no match to the minimalist design of v-brakes. They are sometimes too powerful. The lighter the bike and rider, the harder they are to control. Even a one-fingered effort can induce an uncontrollable skid. The lightest disc brake designs with single pistons can offer more controllable power. Finally, disc brakes are difficult to work on and parts are not available at every bike shop. If you have a shop you trust and they are familiar with and stock a given brand of disc brake, then you should have nothing to fear.

So, Which one should I choose?

If you ride primarily in wet conditions and have had problems with mud build up, then disc brakes will be your saving grace. Make sure that you choose a brand that offers the control and adjustability that will work well on a lighter weight bike with a lighter rider. Currently, The new Shimano XTR’s and the Magura Marta’s offer a whole new level of control and ultra-lightweight that has previously been unavailable with other models.

On the other hand, If you value lightest weight system possible, value simplicity and are mostly a fair weather rider, then stick with the V’s. It is only a matter of time before disc brakes achieve the level of refinement and lightweight offered by conventional brakes. By then, the v-brake will no longer be an option. Until then, all good things are worth waiting for.

Drive train and other parts: There are pros and cons to every part, every shifting system, even every handle grip. No component can be all things to all people. When it comes to these parts, make sure it works, make sure it fits, and if possible, make sure it is light. Above all else, choose parts that get you excited to ride your bike! After all, that’s what it’s all about.

Buying a female specific design is not just about the frame and it’s not just about the parts. It’s about finding the bike that’s right for you! The most important thing is that you look at what type of riding you do and research the products that will best meet your needs. The right bike, with the right parts, and the proper fit will take your cycling experience to a whole new level.

So, If the bike fits, ride it!

The Pitch:
Titus Cycles has been making custom bikes for women since 1991-Well before the term “female specific” was ever coined. Our goal has always been to cater to all hard core cycling enthusiasts regardless of gender or height. Because of this, almost every Titus model is available in at least one female specific size. The majority of our models have multiple choices for the female rider. We are very proud to offer the smallest full suspension bike made with full size wheels. We even offer custom models to accommodate just about anyone’s special needs, plus we can help you choose each component to build the bike that’s just right for you..

So, when you’re shopping for your next bike, make sure you put Titus at the top of your list. No other manufacturer can offer the fit, quality, and performance of a hand built Titus bike.


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

Well, I didn't read the cut-and-paste but we'll have to agree to disagree about whether "WSD" is standard bike shop vernacular. 

You may not want it to be, but saying it don't make it so, nor does a long cut-and-paste about the origins of women's specific geometry. Terry, which really pioneered the concept, has even used the term (though not with all caps). If an LBS employee doesn't understand what is being sought by a buyer seeking a "wsd" bike, shame on him/her. 

Cheers.


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## IronDad (Oct 7, 2003)

"Terry, which really pioneered the concept, has even used the term (though not with all caps)"

Funny you mention Terry... I discussed this exact discussion with Georgena (as in the owner/founder of Terry Precision Cycling) maybe five years ago and she also bristled at the mention of "wsd" (caps or no caps), so I'm not sure where you get your information from. 

Regardless, I'm sure that a shop will know what WSD means and never said they wouldn't, only that many companies bristled at the term... mostly because it's a TREK marketing term.


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## SadieKate (Feb 22, 2006)

IronDad said:


> WSD is Trek's label for women's bikes... it's sort of like calling tissue paper "Kleenex" or photocopies "Xerox"....


I agree, but . . .. 



IronDad said:


> some non-Trek stores might look at your cross-eyed if you mention "WSD" instead of "a bike with feminine geometry" or something like that.


Any LBS employee who wants to keep a customer will not make a face and will take the opportunity to politely educate and inform a potential customer. If said employee makes a face, any woman is likely to walk out on them and post on public forums about the shop's rudeness. The average buyer does not know or care about such splitting of hairs.

Once any intelligent woman learns about many of the marketing ploys aimed at women, they soon learn that WSD, feminine geometry, etc., means only so much until you get fit on the right frame for the individual with the proper components, be they designed for men, women or martians.


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## whateveronfire (Sep 27, 2005)

Hi all--

Thanks for all the great ideas. We had stayed away from Cannondale, but the Synapse looks worthy of a ride. We'll def. check out some of the Italian bikes and the Roubaix.

I even heard that the Orbea Onix might be "worth a look, despite the pink."  The Diva is a bit out of the pirce range. A lot of salt, indeed. We'll see.

As for the "WSD" thing, I've got to agree with JayTee (and not just because she'd the mod). We were in a shop that sold Trek, Orbea, Scott, and Cannondale and the bike shop guys were referring to all the female specific bikes as WSD. I don't think I'd want to shop in an LBS that got pedantic with me.

I found the cut and paste interesting, but not as universal as they'd like to think. Not all 5'5" women weigh 120lbs. 

Any other ideas (on bikes to try)?

Thanks again.


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## jm3 (Mar 22, 2003)

Some okay points in your post, but the premise that women have longer legs and shorter torsos than men has long since been disproven or, to be more accurate, has never been assumed nor stated in anthropology. The anthropometric data is quite clear that, as a percentage of overall height, men and women are equally proportioned in both leg and torso length, including the femur, which makes up 46% of leg length for both sexes. There IS a significant reach difference between men and women, but it comes from arm and hand length, nothing more - that's why wsd tri bikes are a farce, the tri-optimized postion,for the most part, takes the reach difference out of the equation. Of course, this is all based on averages, and no one is average, which makes bicycle design difficult in the first place.

One thing is certain, the reach difference between men and women cannot be made up by the frame alone, it must be a combination of frame and componentry. Good point there.

For some reason, likely laziness & lack of study, the bike industry continues to propogate the longer leg, shorter torso myth and pass it on to consumers. Look to the car industry and, not to sound chauvinistic, the kitchen design industry for those who get it right.

I'll agree that Titus make some fantastic frames for women, so do others, but even Titus' stock geometry is quite good so I'm a big fan. Unfortunately, almost all manufacturers ignore that a woman's weight is distributed differently than a man's, especially across the saddle, and that women bend differently at the waist than men due to the differences (I mean beyond the obvious) in the pelvic structure - that's a whole 'nother discussion.


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## Spinfinity (Feb 3, 2004)

jm3 Unfortunately said:


> Always good to hear somebody else mention weight distribution. It matters a lot and gets Iittle attention. I think women need shorter reach as much to center their weight properly as anything else. Riders with too much weight on their seats have trouble finding a comfortable saddle. Riders with too much weight on their hands have sore necks and shoulders. A bike with too much weight on the back wheel handles poorly. I know, I rode with rear panniers this weekend.


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## SadieKate (Feb 22, 2006)

Oh, gosh yes, on the weight thing. Some of the things I've been told to do mtbiking to balance traction by guys who don't understand that all the weight is _already_ over the rear wheel.:mad2:


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

Coming into a women's forum to hijack a substantive thread with criticisms about how folks ask questions rarely influences friends or influences people. You very much did suggest that non-Trek dealers would look at a buyer with bewilderment if she asks to talk about wsd bikes (you wrote: non-Trek stores might look at your cross-eyed if you mention "WSD"). I think your point was petty and exaggerated and still do. 

PS -- Yes, I know who Georgena is. Look if your goal is to come in here and let the gals know they've got it all wrong and play Mr. Know-It-All, knock yourself out. I think your approach is beyond unfortunate, but I'm also not going to engage further.


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## HokieRider (Oct 6, 2005)

just to bring the thread back to the original topic.....I'm 5'6" and under 115 lbs, so I needed a bike I could move around easily and feel comfortable on. Got a Cannondale after trying out a bunch of stuff (I worked at REI at the time and almost everyone commuted to work). I love it. I've never had stiffness in my back or neck. Try everything, but don't eliminate anything based soley on color.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

I have the same neck/shoulder problems she has. I just flipped my stem so that my handlebars are higher (and slightly closer). This has helped with the neck soreness.


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

I have a friend (5'4"-ish female) who has just been thrilled with a 49 cm Look. I can't remember the geometry, but it seems to me the guy at Excel recommended it because it accomodated her reach well, and then being sold frame-only it allowed her to fit with 165 cranks, Salsa Poco bars, etc.


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## whateveronfire (Sep 27, 2005)

JayTee said:


> I have a friend (5'4"-ish female) who has just been thrilled with a 49 cm Look. I can't remember the geometry, but it seems to me the guy at Excel recommended it because it accomodated her reach well, and then being sold frame-only it allowed her to fit with 165 cranks, Salsa Poco bars, etc.


Ooh, she'll love that idea. I'll have her check out the geometry. (She's also 5' 4", so maybe...)

Thanks!


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## whateveronfire (Sep 27, 2005)

il sogno said:


> I have the same neck/shoulder problems she has. I just flipped my stem so that my handlebars are higher (and slightly closer). This has helped with the neck soreness.


Unfortunately, it's already flipped on the current bike and she's still too stretched out.

All good evidence that the "make sure it fits" adage is deeply right.


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## sportschicfla (Apr 8, 2007)

*WSD not for every women*

*I have been looking at bikes for about the past month on weekends before I opted to go custom. Not all women need a short top tube. Some of us need to be a bit more stretched out as we tend to have a longer torso. My challenge wasn't just with the top tube length but with the seat tube angle. Most women's bikes in my size (I'm 5'5) which tends to be about a 51 all tend to have a seat tube angle of 74 -75 degrees which is much great then I need. I am most comfortable on a 73.5 and there aren't too many of those bikes out there in that size. 

For that reason I went with custom. There are several out there that do a good job and can be done for less then the Orbea Diva which you said was out of the price range. Don't rule out steel and don't forget companies like Independent Fabricators (IF) and Serotta if she elects to go that way. I am sure she won't regret it. It's how I ended up going since there were a lack of choices for me.

Good luck*.


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## whateveronfire (Sep 27, 2005)

Just a follow-up, if anyone is interested. She went bike shopping this weekend. At the Orbea dealer, she tried the 49cm Onix Dama (despite the pink). Then tried the 48cm Onix.

The latter was love at first ride and there's been (a little, ok, a lot) of talk about how she now understand what it means when it's said "that a bike is an extension of you." She's happy. No neck, back or shoulder pain at all, by the way. 

Thanks for all the help.


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## SBeachBiker (Aug 31, 2002)

*New Onix for Women or Just Onix?*

Am considering an Onix myself, same size, and wondering if I should try to find the new Onix for women...which did she choose? (There is a minor pink issue with this bike as well; pink decals on carbon frame)...


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## SBeachBiker (Aug 31, 2002)

*Sorry - Ignore Previous Post (I Should Try Reading 1st...)*

duhhhhhhhhhh


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

whateveronfire said:


> Just a follow-up, if anyone is interested. She went bike shopping this weekend. At the Orbea dealer, she tried the 49cm Onix Dama (despite the pink). Then tried the 48cm Onix.
> 
> The latter was love at first ride and there's been (a little, ok, a lot) of talk about how she now understand what it means when it's said "that a bike is an extension of you." She's happy. No neck, back or shoulder pain at all, by the way.
> 
> Thanks for all the help.


I test rode the Diva and for the first time felt what it was like to have the wheels "under me". Glad she's found a bike she likes.


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## Shannon K (Apr 25, 2007)

JayTee said:


> Coming into a women's forum to hijack a substantive thread with criticisms about how folks ask questions rarely influences friends or influences people. You very much did suggest that non-Trek dealers would look at a buyer with bewilderment if she asks to talk about wsd bikes (you wrote: non-Trek stores might look at your cross-eyed if you mention "WSD"). I think your point was petty and exaggerated and still do.
> 
> PS -- Yes, I know who Georgena is. Look if your goal is to come in here and let the gals know they've got it all wrong and play Mr. Know-It-All, knock yourself out. I think your approach is beyond unfortunate, but I'm also not going to engage further.



JayTee honey, I think you done the hijacking and the dad is right about WSD  

I LOVE the Orbeas and LOVE the colors!!! :thumbsup:


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