# "Tall stack" stems



## Frith (Oct 3, 2002)

Velo Orange does one.
http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/vo-tall-stack-threadless-stem-31-8-rise.html


Are there any others? I like the idea of getting rid of the stack of spacers all together. I was thinking that I wouldn't be surprised if there were a carbon fiber version somewhere that I'd never seen.


----------



## laffeaux (Dec 12, 2001)

Yipsan Bicycles (http://www.yipsanbicycles.com/), a custom builder out of Colorado, was the first builder that I saw using this style of stem. If you're looking for a steel stem, take a look at him.


----------



## Love Commander (Aug 20, 2009)

VO is the only place I know of that sells them after-market. There are a few companies, like Raleigh, that includes this style stem with their bikes, but that's about all I've seen of them.

I like mine.










(steer tube is now trimmed) :blush2:


----------



## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

Love Commander said:


> VO is the only place I know of that sells them after-market. There are a few companies, like Raleigh, that includes this style stem with their bikes, but that's about all I've seen of them.
> 
> I like mine.
> 
> (steer tube is now trimmed) :blush2:




pretty cool... but only knowing what you wrote, it seems to me that aftermarket is better for these... by including them on built bikes, raleigh has taken away some of their adjustability


----------



## Frith (Oct 3, 2002)

That's the most obvious downside. 
I'm having a custom frame built and thinking of designing it around that stem or something similar (Designing a frame around a stem does seem a little bit crazy now that I say it out loud). I really like the look and think I know my position well enough now to get the bars in just the right position with one of these stems.

Thanks for the pic Love Commander that's the first time i've seen one on a bike and it does look nice. I'm thinking of having it painted the same colour as the frame... Will need to talk to the builder about what's involved there.


----------



## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

Frith said:


> That's the most obvious downside.
> I'm having a custom frame built and thinking of designing it around that stem or something similar (Designing a frame around a stem does seem a little bit crazy now that I say it out loud). I really like the look and think I know my position well enough now to get the bars in just the right position with one of these stems.
> 
> Thanks for the pic Love Commander that's the first time i've seen one on a bike and it does look nice. I'm thinking of having it painted the same colour as the frame... Will need to talk to the builder about what's involved there.


Had a custom stem designed with my custom frame- figure if your builder gets the size right, you aren't designing a frame around a stem, just getting a stem that fits perfectly.

And, of course, you can always put on another stem...


----------



## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

??? Why use a negative rise if you want the bars high? A straight stem and shorter steerer would achieve the same position with less weight.

I'll attempt to answer my own question: There's a segment of slow, inflexible riders who want to look like a pro with a negative rise stem while sitting upright. Everyone else thinks this looks silly and you're fooling no one. The bicycle version of a toupee.


----------



## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

Lelandjt said:


> ??? Why use a negative rise if you want the bars high? A straight stem and shorter steerer would achieve the same position with less weight.
> 
> I'll attempt to answer my own question: There's a segment of slow, inflexible riders who want to look like a pro with a negative rise stem while sitting upright. Everyone else thinks this looks silly and you're fooling no one. The bicycle version of a toupee.


It's a 75mm stack. With a typical -6 degree stem and 20mms of spacers you'll end up with the same bar height.

And if you ride a level TT bike with a unextended headtube, that's a pretty low bar height. Given Velo Orange's target market, this stem is perfect for a classic looking racing bike. Even for fast, flexible riders who like nice looking equipment instead of road bikes wearing MTB parts.

How's that for an answer?


----------



## Magsdad (Jun 29, 2005)

Love Commander said:


> VO is the only place I know of that sells them after-market. There are a few companies, like Raleigh, that includes this style stem with their bikes, but that's about all I've seen of them.
> 
> I like mine.
> 
> ...


That is awesome, but SCREAMS for silver bars!


----------



## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

Lelandjt said:


> ??? Why use a negative rise if you want the bars high?
> 
> A straight stem and shorter steerer would achieve the same position with less weight.
> 
> I'll attempt to answer my own question: There's a segment of slow, inflexible riders who want to look like a pro with a negative rise stem while sitting upright. Everyone else thinks this looks silly and you're fooling no one. The bicycle version of a toupee.


Stem weight is irrelevant unless you weigh around 140 pounds, have road races with climbing, and are otherwise competitive. 

Bicycles are all about aesthetics.

Some people want to combine classic looks that don't make St. Tullio spin in his grave, modern brake/shift levers that mount towards the top of the bend instead of the middle (which I'd assume were made to allow a modern looking lower handle bar position for marketing reasons which still keeps the brake hoods at a comfortable height) because the small parts for our 13-18 year old units have been discontinued, modern handle bar shapes which establish the same hood to drop relationship we used to have but don't come in a 26.4mm diameter, and high quality forks on modern bikes which no longer come with threaded steerer tubes that take pleasant looking stems like the Cinelli 1A (which wouldn't work with the bars we need...)

Stems have been pleasingly shaped like a '7' for most of a hundred years. It's nice to combine that classic form with handlebars in the same place they'd be with a straight top-tube diamond frame sized according to the classic "fist of seatpost showing" method and a Cinelli 1A stem.

In classic silver. Which looks great to begin with and doesn't look horrible once you wear off some anodizing.


----------



## cathyandrob (Jun 15, 2006)

*I think you are outlining my problem....*

I have old Merckx frames most with threaded steerers, I like using modern Campy shifters, I like the modern compact style bars with flat ramps to the shifters and tight radius shallow drops as I can't bend too far.

The problem is all those bars are 31.8 and if I use these bars I am forced to use thread less stems and a quill converter. It's a bit yuk.

I have one bar that nearly fits the bill, a 3T morph in silver. It's an ergo bend which I don't like but it's 25.4.

Any solutions? Nitto Noodle may be the closest.

Rob


----------



## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Lelandjt said:


> ??? Why use a negative rise if you want the bars high? A straight stem and shorter steerer would achieve the same position with less weight.
> 
> I'll attempt to answer my own question: There's a segment of slow, inflexible riders who want to look like a pro with a negative rise stem while sitting upright. Everyone else thinks this looks silly and you're fooling no one. The bicycle version of a toupee.


no, you are the huge minority. there are three groups or cyclists. 

those who just like to ride.
those who race and can hold their own.
those who think they are racers and talk to themselves on the interwebs.

you are not everyone else so dontbspeak foreveryone else. alot of peoplethink a stem level with the TT looks good. myself included.

it looks good.


----------



## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Lelandjt said:


> I'll attempt to answer my own question: There's a segment of slow, inflexible riders who want to look like a pro with a negative rise stem while sitting upright. Everyone else thinks this looks silly and you're fooling no one. The bicycle version of a toupee.



I'll answer your question for you. There is segment of riders that could give a #$% what the pro's bikes, and pro wannabe bikes, look like...


----------



## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

Lelandjt said:


> The bicycle version of a toupee.




lol...


----------



## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

*A retro gripe*

That product, and this whole discussion, I take as another validation of my personal opinion that threadless headsets and their matching stems were no real advance in technology. A quill stem's easy height adjustability is more than worth the tiny weight penalty, IMHO, and improving headset bearing adjustment could have been addressed in better ways (there were some models with a split lockring with locking screw, similar to current Campy hubs). Instead,. we got the current system, which makes for easy headset adjustment, but requires all kinds of ugly kludges to change the bar height. On balance, not an improvment, IMO.


----------



## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

JCavilia said:


> That product, and this whole discussion, I take as another validation of my personal opinion that threadless headsets and their matching stems were no real advance in technology. A quill stem's easy height adjustability is more than worth the tiny weight penalty, IMHO, and improving headset bearing adjustment could have been addressed in better ways (there were some models with a split lockring with locking screw, similar to current Campy hubs). Instead,. we got the current system, which makes for easy headset adjustment, but requires all kinds of ugly kludges to change the bar height. On balance, not an improvment, IMO.




one thing, I don't think you could have carbon steerers w/ quill stems/threaded headsets... but then again, there is segment of riders that could give a #$% about carbon


----------



## Love Commander (Aug 20, 2009)

Dave Hickey said:


> I'll answer your question for you. There is segment of riders that could give a #$% what the pro's bikes, and pro wannabe bikes, look like...


Well, I have to admit, I _was_ trying to ape the steel bike with fenders and fat tire look that was so popular in last year's Tour.


----------



## Lelandjt (Sep 11, 2008)

Drew Eckhardt said:


> Bicycles are all about aesthetics.


Huh, in 27 years of riding I never knew that. I thought they were about going fast and having fun.


----------



## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

Lelandjt said:


> Huh, in 27 years of riding I never knew that. I thought they were about going fast and having fun.


Well, a lot of people pay for some really "fast" paint, then.

In 27 years of cycling, you have yet to notice that people try to make their bikes pretty with matching, swoopy parts, colored cable housings, colored anodized bolts and colored bar tape? Are you in Russia?


----------



## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

Lelandjt said:


> ??? Why use a negative rise if you want the bars high? A straight stem and shorter steerer would achieve the same position with less weight.
> 
> I'll attempt to answer my own question: There's a segment of slow, inflexible riders who want to look like a pro with a negative rise stem while sitting upright. Everyone else thinks this looks silly and you're fooling no one. The bicycle version of a toupee.


sort of like the compact double crank.


----------



## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Lelandjt said:


> Huh, in 27 years of riding I never knew that. I thought they were about going fast and having fun.


having fun yes, going fast? to each heir own. 
drew was right.


----------



## Dale Brigham (Aug 23, 2002)

Love Commander said:


> Well, I have to admit, I _was_ trying to ape the steel bike with fenders and fat tire look that was so popular in last year's Tour.


LC:

I love your Pacer! Mine is the previous color (silver), and it has been a very nice bike. The VO stem looks perfect on yours. I wish that stem were available in 26.0 bar diameter, but 31.8 is the new normal, so I am just lagging behind (as usual).

Please do us the kind favor of sharing more photos of your very nice Pacer.

Dale (Slow and Inflexible)


----------



## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

Camilo said:


> sort of like the compact double crank.




naw, the compact double is like the bicycle version of male enhancement pills


----------



## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

FatTireFred said:


> naw, the compact double is like the bicycle version of male enhancement pills


Shimano V*agra?


----------



## Love Commander (Aug 20, 2009)

Dale Brigham said:


> LC:
> 
> I love your Pacer! Mine is the previous color (silver), and it has been a very nice bike. The VO stem looks perfect on yours. I wish that stem were available in 26.0 bar diameter, but 31.8 is the new normal, so I am just lagging behind (as usual).
> 
> ...


Hi Dale.

Thanks. I would have gone for the silver if my last 2 rides weren't that same metallic silver. Looks sharp. VO does offer 31.8 to 26.0 shims, but I don't know how it would look with a fat handlebar clamp and a relatively skinny handlebar. Might be worth checking out, though.

Here's a photo of the whole Pacer. WARNING: Compact double!


----------



## Dale Brigham (Aug 23, 2002)

Love Commander said:


> Hi Dale.
> 
> Thanks. I would have gone for the silver if my last 2 rides weren't that same metallic silver. Looks sharp. VO does offer 31.8 to 26.0 shims, but I don't know how it would look with a fat handlebar clamp and a relatively skinny handlebar. Might be worth checking out, though.
> 
> Here's a photo of the whole Pacer. WARNING: Compact double!


LC:

Darn purty bike! Nice work!

Dale


----------



## Bantamben (Jun 17, 2012)

Does anyone no where to get a -6 tall stack stem I noticed velo orange only is showing the -17 stem now.


----------



## Bantamben (Jun 17, 2012)

Does anyone know if there are any companies other than vo that make tall stack stems because I want a lower degree like -7 or-6 the only one vo has is -17


----------



## Guest (Jun 17, 2012)

Drew Eckhardt said:


> Stem weight is irrelevant unless you weigh around 140 pounds, have road races with climbing, and are otherwise competitive.
> 
> Bicycles are all about aesthetics.


what if you're a 125lb lightweight interested in getting into competetitive hill-climbing events, who happens to have unusually long legs and short torso and therefore requires a bike with shorter top tube. Nothing to do with lack of flexibility, just an issue of body proportions. A consequence of having a bike with a shorter top tube is an excessively short head tube -- particularly considering short-torso riders don't need as much saddle-bar drop to achieve a horizontal-back riding position. 

In that case, a positive rise stem / short steerer makes more sense than a negative rise stem/ longer steerer tube with spacers to achieve the same position.



NOTE: the "hypothetical rider" in my post is actually running 1.5cm of spacers with a -6 degree stem, but went with a frame that is borderline too big him. On the next smaller sized frame, he'd likely run 0.5-1.5cm of spacers with a +6 degree stem to achieve similar saddle-bar drop.


----------

