# ProLink Chain Lube is Awesome!



## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

I've been using tri-flow as my general lube for a long time. It works great on pivot points for brakes and derailleurs. However, it is God Awful as a chain lube. It turns the chain and cassette BLACK, attracts dirt like crazy, and gunks up everything, destroying shift quality. 

I had a few packets of prolink samples sitting around, so figured, why not? I cleaned the dark sooty gunk off my chain, chassette and pulley wheels to the best of my ability. It is unbelievable how black and dirty the chain gets with triflow.

I dribbled the prolink sample onto the chain unevenly. I probably dribbled half of it on my hand, but there seemed to be sufficient lube on most of the chain, and I then wiped off the excess.

Went for a ride and BOOM! Shift quality is now just about show room floor fresh! Upshift gives that very satisfying CLUNK as the chain dumps down the cassette, and downshifts are just as quiet as before. 

With the triflow crap everywhere, misshifts were becoming semi-commonplace and slow, noisy shifts were the norm. I tried adjusting the derailleur, but that wasn't the problem, I've now realized. 


It is so satisfying to have my my original superior shift quality that was a major part of the equation as to why I bought the bike in the first place. It's so satisfying to have that superior shimano shifting on my bike again. 

Long live ProLink chain lube!


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## ClayL (Dec 14, 2012)

Funny, I felt just the opposite. Pro link turns my gold chain black within a week, white lightning seems to work best for me. Guess that's why we have choices.


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## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

Prolink turns black too. It may take a bit longer, but the chain will be "dirty" in less than 200 miles. 

I do 200-250 miles per week and use prolink. I wipe my chain and re-lube at least every other ride. At least once per week, I spray the drivetrain with WD40, wash it with water from a hose, lube with prolink, and wipe off the lube with a dry paper towel. 

I think I may get a little better chain life with regular cleaning and lubing. But, I know I hate black chain rings, black chains, and gunked up derailleur pulleys. Amazing how my bike always shifts correctly, when other riding buddies who never wipe or lube their chains have shifting problems.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Only lube I've used that kept things clean looking but lubed... Is RnR Red. But it needs reapplied frequently per the instructions. But it sucks in the wet


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Marc said:


> Only lube I've used that kept things clean looking but lubed... Is RnR Red. But it needs reapplied frequently per the instructions. But it sucks in the wet



That's how it works. Cleaner and more frequent, or a bit dirtier and longer lasting.

I tried many things in the past, but I use Slick 50 One Lube now. Some in a drip bottle does the trick, good for general purpose use around the house as well, inexpensive given that a 12oz can lasts and lasts. Relatively clean if you apply it correctly, and lasts a good long time under most conditions. The MTBR reviews praise it in the wet, for example.

I do use white lightning, but only on my pedals.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> That's how it works. Cleaner and more frequent, or a bit dirtier and longer lasting.


Except not in RnR Red's case. Your chain can and does still look shiny and clean, but it will run loud because it isn't lubricated well anymore. Needs reapplied every 100 miles or so. It is self cleaning by design when applied right, but application is best done on a floor you don't care about as you pour over a backwards spinning chain-not dab on link by link.

Love the stuff for not being a grime magnet at all, but doesn't keep the chain lubricated longer term like ProLink. And in the wet it just washes out, moreso than most dry-lubes.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Generally the longer lasting a lube is the more prone it is to making your chain black and visa versa. ProLink is somewhere in the middle as in it's lasts kinda long and is kinda decent at keeping the chain looking clean. But if you have OCD for either clean or long lasting there are better choices for each. If you have OCD for both clean and long lasting you're probably out of luck.

Personally I don't care if my chain isn't shiny silver and don't really mind lubing often either so pretty much any lube will do.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

OP, 

It sounds like you are just feeling the benefit of having a clean drive train. If you keep it clean and lubricated, shift quality and life expectancy of your gear should be good, regardless of what lube you use (within reason of course).


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

The only way to keep your chain and rings nice and shiny is to use a wax based lube like White Lightening. The problem with that stuff is that it wears off after 100 miles or even less. I used to use Pro Link, but have been using RnR yellow lately. Yes, my chain is black. No, I don't care.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

It's about time to re-lube my chain. Been 701 miles with Chain-L. Last time was 900 miles. Oh well.
My chain is black and greasy. And I don't care.


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## wgscott (Jul 14, 2013)

Migen21 said:


> OP,
> 
> It sounds like you are just feeling the benefit of having a clean drive train. If you keep it clean and lubricated, shift quality and life expectancy of your gear should be good, regardless of what lube you use (within reason of course).


Yeah. He changed two things: (1) The lube. (2) The cleanliness of the chain. 

The more informative experiment would be to clean the chain, and then have someone else apply one or the other (so you are blind to the possible change), ride for a week, switch (re-clean, etc), and then try to figure out which is which. That would help rule out expectation bias and would involve only one change at a time.

My main problem is sand in the chain. I don't like the idea of leaving that in place. So I clean frequently, and use minimal, teflon-based lubricant.


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## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

I don't care if the chain turns black. I DO care about shift quality and about having a silent chain. 

Tri Flow has failed magnificently on both counts. I used tri flow after cleaning the chain thoroughly with simple green in a chain cleaning machine. After drying, I applied tri flow, then cleaned off the excess.

By the second ride, the chain was covered with a thick black paste, and I had multiple misshifts, and shifts were generally quite slow and clunky. The drivetrain was also excessively noisy. 

After 3 rides of this nonsense, I finally tried the prolink sample I had lying around. I tried to get as much of the black tar that had gunked up the chain and cassette, then applied the prolink and wiped off the excess. 

Even testing the bike on the stand I could tell the lube was far superior. I'm going on another ride today, but this stuff is magical compared to tri flow. 

It really does feel like the bike I rode off the showroom floor, with very precise shifts. 

I still like tri flow a lot: it's decent as a lube for brake and derailleur pivot points, although again, it can attract dirt like a magnet, esp. if you don't wipe up any excess or dribble in just a bit too much. 

I guess it's become a bike shop standard since it's a few bucks less than the competition, but I'd rather pay $2 or $3 more for a bottle considering you can do much, much better, esp. in maintaining a drivetrain.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

ex_machina said:


> I still like tri flow a lot: it's decent as a lube for brake and derailleur pivot points, although again, it can attract dirt like a magnet, esp. if you don't wipe up any excess or dribble in just a bit too much.


In all my time cycling I've never put a touch of lube on brakes or derailleur pivot points. And all is well. How to heck does one identify a good lube for something that as far as I can tell requires no lube to work perfectly well?


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## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

wgscott said:


> Yeah. He changed two things: (1) The lube. (2) The cleanliness of the chain.
> 
> The more informative experiment would be to clean the chain, and then have someone else apply one or the other (so you are blind to the possible change), ride for a week, switch (re-clean, etc), and then try to figure out which is which. That would help rule out expectation bias and would involve only one change at a time.
> 
> My main problem is sand in the chain. I don't like the idea of leaving that in place. So I clean frequently, and use minimal, teflon-based lubricant.


Wrong, I cleaned the chain much more thoroughly before applying tri flow than I did before applying prolink. So if anything, tri flow had a much better chance to showcase it's abilities than the prolink.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

ex_machina said:


> I used tri flow after cleaning the chain thoroughly with simple green in a chain cleaning machine. After drying, I applied tri flow, then cleaned off the excess.


Did you rinse it before drying? If not, you might want to start, unless you think grease cutters are helpful to lubrication.

I am going to guess that you wiped off the excess by running the chain through a rag, backpedaling. That won't get the excess off, because the excess is not all on the exterior surface after application. Lots has wicked into the rollers. You know what drives it out of the rollers? Pressure. Which happens when you pedal.



ex_machina said:


> By the second ride, the chain was covered with a thick black paste, and I had multiple misshifts, and shifts were generally quite slow and clunky. The drivetrain was also excessively noisy.


Classic sign of over application. I have never in my decades of cycling seen in the real world a chain lube that was applied in proper amounts result in "thick black paste" on the chain after a couple rides.

If you put too much on of any brand, you can ride the bike around the block... then wipe off the gunk that *oozed out under pressure*. That, plus a wipe after the first ride, generally will get things in order pretty well after putting too much on of any lube.


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

ex_machina said:


> I
> 
> Even testing the bike on the stand I could tell the lube was far superior. I'm going on another ride today, but this stuff is magical compared to tri flow.
> .


I've used a bottle or two of ProLink and it worked fine. At the time I was not aware of these magical properties. Now I wonder if it will make my hair grow back. Anyway, I went back to homebrew because its cheap and the difference between it and Prolink wasn't all that apparent to me. I am definitely not in the clean chain OCD camp


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## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

pmf said:


> The only way to keep your chain and rings nice and shiny is to use a wax based lube like White Lightening. The problem with that stuff is that it wears off after 100 miles or even less. I used to use Pro Link, but have been using RnR yellow lately. Yes, my chain is black. No, I don't care.


White lightnening was the stuff in the mid-90s, until i got tired of black gunk all over my chainrings, chain, and derailleur pulleys. 

I realize it is personal preference. But, white lightening and shiney chain do not go together. White lightening and cat 5 marks go hand in hand.


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## cooskull (Nov 30, 2013)

tlg said:


> It's about time to re-lube my chain. Been 701 miles with Chain-L. Last time was 900 miles. Oh well.
> My chain is black and greasy. And I don't care.


Wipe the chain after each ride for 2-3 rides after you apply the lube and you won't even have that. Once you get the excess oil off the outside plates it really doesn't collect dirt at all and stays quite clean.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

cooskull said:


> Wipe the chain after each ride for 2-3 rides after you apply the lube and you won't even have that. Once you get the excess oil off the outside plates it really doesn't collect dirt at all and stays quite clean.


I couldn't be bothered. It doesn't affect performance or chain life.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

DaveG said:


> I've used a bottle or two of ProLink and it worked fine. At the time I was not aware of these magical properties. Now I wonder if it will make my hair grow back. Anyway, I went back to homebrew because its cheap and the difference between it and Prolink wasn't all that apparent to me. I am definitely not in *the clean chain OCD cam*p


It's CDO sir. The letters have to be in the right order


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

ziscwg said:


> It's CDO sir. The letters have to be in the right order


What's CDO?


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

I'm a bigtime prolink fan.

Also an ex-triflower.


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## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

I have a few samples of WD-40 chain lube. I've read some less than stellar reviews however. 

I literally have a ton of finish line. The problem there is the dispenser is one of the worst I've tried. Tip the bottle even a few degrees and the lube flows out freely. It's impossible to apply with any care or precision. I've called and emailed and finish line has no response whatsoever. 

Not to mention a couple of unused bottles of tri flow. 

Prolink does cost about 50% more than tri flow, but I consider it useless now as a chain lube, so the prolink is worth the additional expense.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

my progression:

30w motor oil --> 3-in-One oil --> paraffin --> homebrew --> TriFlow --> Pedro's --> Chain-L

Chain-L kicks serious ass in the lube interval dept...routinely go 750+ miles between applications.


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## mtrac (Sep 23, 2013)

Boeshield FTW.


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## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

Jay Strongbow said:


> In all my time cycling I've never put a touch of lube on brakes or derailleur pivot points. And all is well. How to heck does one identify a good lube for something that as far as I can tell requires no lube to work perfectly well?


Nobody gives a s--- if you lube your derailleur pivot points. Wrong topic anyway.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

tlg said:


> I couldn't be bothered. It doesn't affect performance or chain life.


Yep, doesn't change performance but it makes it messier fixing a flat and messes up jerseys bumped into accidentally loading a bike on a rack and it takes a total of 1 minute to wide it down with a little WD on a paper towel. 

I like prolink too, but I wouldn't say it is magical and it still turns black. Boeshield T9 works well too, I use it for gravel rides.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Srode said:


> Yep, doesn't change performance but it makes it messier fixing a flat and messes up jerseys bumped into accidentally loading a bike on a rack and it takes a total of 1 minute to wide it down with a little WD on a paper towel.


I've never touched my chain fixing a flat. Nor got my chain against my jersey. Or any other part of my body. 
A 1min wipe down still doesn't make the chain totally grease proof to touch. And in one ride it'll be greasy again.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

ex_machina said:


> Nobody gives a s--- if you lube your derailleur pivot points. Wrong topic anyway.


Yet you were the one who mentioned lubing derailleur pitots (and I just responded).


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

ex_machina said:


> It is so satisfying to have my my original superior shift quality that was a major part of the equation as to why I bought the bike in the first place. It's so satisfying to have that superior shimano shifting on my bike again.


That's nice. I just noticed one or two slow shifts on my Campy drivetrain last week, so I decided that it's time to relube my chain. I checked, and the last lube was 1,300 miles ago. During those 1,300 miles I had perfect, crisp shifting throughout. That would be Chain-L for you, and Campagnolo, of course.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

tlg said:


> I've never touched my chain fixing a flat. Nor got my chain against my jersey. Or any other part of my body.
> A 1min wipe down still doesn't make the chain totally grease proof to touch. And in one ride it'll be greasy again.


you are obviously a superior human being then!


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## BCSaltchucker (Jul 20, 2011)

Pirx said:


> That's nice. I just noticed one or two slow shifts on my Campy drivetrain last week, so I decided that it's time to relube my chain. I checked, and the last lube was 1,300 miles ago. During those 1,300 miles I had perfect, crisp shifting throughout. That would be Chain-L for you, and Campagnolo, of course.


wow.  never had such luck as that

but I have only used Syn Lube for 20+ some years now. it seems good here in the wet rainy damp muddy PNW, with frequent re application. have to re apply every other ride. or even every ride if it rains. 1300 miles would mean a thorough chain cleaning for me

maybe I need to think about the lube I use for the first time in 25 years, LOL


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## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

NFS! Just don't believe the hype about 12 drops to lube a chain. Prolink doesn't compare.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

tlg said:


> I couldn't be bothered. It doesn't affect performance or chain life.


Yeah, but chicks don't dig guys with dirty chains.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

ex_machina said:


> Nobody gives a s--- if you lube your derailleur pivot points. Wrong topic anyway.


whereas a piss poor cleaned and maintained chain is breaking news


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Srode said:


> you are obviously a superior human being then!


why do you need to touch the chain fixing a flat?


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

den bakker said:


> why do you need to touch the chain fixing a flat?


I suppose if I took the time to be very careful I wouldn't but normally people are waiting on my so I don't dilly dally end up at least pushing the RDR forward to loop the chain over the cassette on installation - removing the wheel I end up moving the chain out of the way below the cassette to get the wheel out.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Srode said:


> I suppose if I took the time to be very careful I wouldn't but normally people are waiting on my so I don't dilly dally end up at least pushing the RDR forward to loop the chain over the cassette on installation - removing the wheel I end up moving the chain out of the way below the cassette to get the wheel out.


smallest cog and no need.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

mfdemicco said:


> Yeah, but chicks don't dig guys with dirty chains.


Depends on the chicks. Some chicks dig "bad boys" who have dirty chains.


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## Stumpjumper FSR (Aug 6, 2006)

mfdemicco said:


> NFS! Just don't believe the hype about 12 drops to lube a chain. Prolink doesn't compare.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree, no more Prolink or Chain L for me.
Silca NFS could be the best chain lube on the market.


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## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

SPlKE said:


> Depends on the chicks. Some chicks dig "bad boys" who have dirty chains.


Especially the ones with chainring tattoos.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

Stumpjumper FSR said:


> I agree, no more Prolink or Chain L for me.
> Silca NFS could be the best chain lube on the market.


so, if NFS lasts ~300 miles and Chain L lasts 750-1000+ miles, how is NFS better...?


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## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

Oxtox said:


> so, if NFS lasts ~300 miles and Chain L lasts 750-1000+ miles, how is NFS better...?


Because it lasts much longer than 300 miles and my chain looks clean.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

mfdemicco said:


> Yeah, but chicks don't dig guys with dirty chains.


Until they look at the size of his...






bank account.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

mfdemicco said:


> Because it lasts much longer than 300 miles and my chain looks clean.


so, NFS is twice the price of Chain L and apparently lasts half as long between applications.

sounds like a great deal.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Oxtox said:


> so, NFS is twice the price of Chain L and apparently lasts half as long between applications.
> 
> sounds like a great deal.


Ah, you just don't get it: "The chain looks clean". 

Seriously, my Chain-L treated chain looks just fine. If you're really anal about the appearance of your chain, you could just wipe it off once every few rides. Takes about 60 seconds or so to run the chain through a rag, and it will look as good as new.

Any chain/chainring, no matter how you lube, will leave tattoos from tiny particles embedded in grease. Unless you don't ride the bike, that is.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

bvber said:


> Until they look at the size of his...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was going to say "brifter" even though it has been pointed out that brifter is not a word.


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## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

Oxtox said:


> so, NFS is twice the price of Chain L and apparently lasts half as long between applications.
> 
> sounds like a great deal.


I haven't tried Chain L, but I doubt I'd like it. NFS is more expensive per bottle, but you use so little of it, it isn't expensive in use. It does last a very long time and the chain is acceptably clean and quiet. It has no odor at all, unlike Chain L. Somebody's wife told him to get the bike out of the house because it stunk so bad. Of reports I've read from people that have used both lubes, most prefer NFS.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

mfdemicco said:


> It has no odor at all, unlike Chain L.


Oh for cryin' out loud, now people start fussing about the odor of their chain lube? God almighty! I happen to like the smell of Chain-L (used to be named "Chain-L No. 5" for that reason, until I think they were told to change the name), but unfortunately the odor doesn't last. Even if I have my bike sitting in my car in the sun for a few hours, you won't notice any odor from my lube.

Having said all that, of course, if you like NFS, by all means keep using it. 

On my side, I have had a great experience with Chain-L. I usually go more than 1000 miles between re-lubes, and my chain typically lasts about 6000 whisper-quiet miles. I am currently running a Campy SR cassette (with the largest six cogs out of titanium), which now has about 10,000 miles on it. I certainly have good reason to believe that my chain lube does its job. Let me know once NFS can match that kind of performance.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

Pirx said:


> Any chain/chainring, no matter how you lube, will leave tattoos from tiny particles embedded in grease. Unless you don't ride the bike, that is.


Sorry, but I have about 2500 miles with paraffin lubed chains. My days of chainring tattoos are over. You can even grab the chain with your hand and it won't leave any marks.


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## Stumpjumper FSR (Aug 6, 2006)

Oxtox said:


> so, if NFS lasts ~300 miles and Chain L lasts 750-1000+ miles, how is NFS better...?


I switched to NFS from Chain L because its easier, cleaner, and takes far less time to lube and maintain my drive train. I've used Chain L for 3 years and really like it, what I don't like is all the lube that gets thrown from the chain the first few rides after applying. (It's really bad if you do not remove the chain when applying) It takes less time to lube a new chain with NFS and every 400 miles or so I just apply lube to 12 random chain links, spin, wipe and I'm done. (I typically reapplied Chain L every 650 - 750 miles.)
For what its worth Friction Facts rates NFS faster than Chain L if you worry about that kind of thing.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

mfdemicco said:


> Somebody's wife told him to get the bike out of the house because it stunk so bad.


somebody's wife must have a delicate olfactory system...I apply the Chain-L in my kitchen and don't notice any appetite-killing smells. there's a slight sulfurous note if you put your nose an inch or two from the chain, but it's certainly nothing that should induce hysterics and banishment of bikes to the woodshed (that's cruel and unusual punishment!)...

but, that's why there's product options, buy what you like.


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## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

Anyone use a pen oiler to apply chain lube? You can get a very small drop per link with it, I would imagine.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

mfdemicco said:


> Anyone use a pen oiler to apply chain lube? You can get a very small drop per link with it, I would imagine.


The nipple on the prolink bottle is pretty good at dispensing a drop at a time.


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## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

Oxtox said:


> somebody's wife must have a delicate olfactory system...I apply the Chain-L in my kitchen and don't notice any appetite-killing smells. there's a slight sulfurous note if you put your nose an inch or two from the chain, but it's certainly nothing that should induce hysterics and banishment of bikes to the woodshed (that's cruel and unusual punishment!)...
> 
> but, that's why there's product options, buy what you like.


 Great comparison.

I would definitely lean towards NFS. If it didn't cost $22 for a 2 oz. bottle that is.


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## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

SPlKE said:


> The nipple on the prolink bottle is pretty good at dispensing a drop at a time.


Additional item on the plus ledger for prolink then.

I have a huge bottle of finish line dry which has the worst nipple I have ever used. The stuff dribbles out as if from an open top if I tilt it down just a few degrees. 

Customer service for finish line is the worst I've ever encountered, which is saying something for bicycling manufacturers, who hate to deal with individual customers. 

With the general cruddiness of tri-flow (both actual and metaphorical), the expense of NFS, the mess of L, and the worst dispenser I've ever tried with finish line, I'm just really glad I have a couple of extra samples of prolink.


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## Stumpjumper FSR (Aug 6, 2006)

ex_machina said:


> Great comparison.
> 
> I would definitely lean towards NFS. If it didn't cost $22 for a 2 oz. bottle that is.


$22.00? It cost $16.00.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

ex_machina said:


> Additional item on the plus ledger for prolink then.
> 
> I have a huge bottle of finish line dry which has the worst nipple I have ever used. The stuff dribbles out as if from an open top if I tilt it down just a few degrees.
> 
> ...


Exactly my experience with Finish Line dry lube, this will be my last bottle.


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

Lilly Lube is more awesome.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

mtrac said:


> Boeshield FTW.





Oxtox said:


> Chain-L kicks serious ass in the lube interval dept...routinely go 750+ miles between applications.





ex_machina said:


> Long live ProLink chain lube!





Stumpjumper FSR said:


> Silca NFS could be the best chain lube on the market.





Notvintage said:


> Lilly Lube is more awesome.


So, someone who is in the market for chain lube reads this would be back to square 1.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

SPlKE said:


> The nipple on the prolink bottle is pretty good at dispensing a drop at a time.


On the topic of nipples... Boeshield T-9 has the best I have used - it needle like and dispenses single drops easily, even better than Prolink (which is very good).


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

bvber said:


> So, someone who is in the market for chain lube reads this would be back to square 1.


Heh. Square 1 is where you make a home brew chain lube. If you do a search on that, you'll find several threads and many posts where people share their homebrew chain lube recipes.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Stumpjumper FSR said:


> I switched to NFS from Chain L because its easier, cleaner, and takes far less time to lube and maintain my drive train. I've used Chain L for 3 years and really like it, what I don't like is all the lube that gets thrown from the chain the first few rides after applying. (It's really bad if you do not remove the chain when applying)


The worst thing about Chain-L is the bottle sucks. The nipple is too large.

I put my Chain-L in a dispenser. Add a couple drops of mineral spirits to thin in a bit because it's too think to come through the needle. 
Now it's simple to put two drops on each roller. Let it soak in a couple hours and ride. I don't even wipe the chain afterwards.


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## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

I've purchased some of these http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-pcs-Refil...583085?hash=item33b20dd52d:g:SO8AAOSwuAVWyjTw


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## Stumpjumper FSR (Aug 6, 2006)

tlg said:


> The worst thing about Chain-L is the bottle sucks. The nipple is too large.
> 
> I put my Chain-L in a dispenser. Add a couple drops of mineral spirits to thin in a bit because it's too think to come through the needle.
> Now it's simple to put two drops on each roller. Let it soak in a couple hours and ride. I don't even wipe the chain afterwards.


It is thick!

I used to follow the directions Frank listed on his website, it seemed to help if I warmed the bottle up first, also had good results with putting the chain in a toaster over after lubing. No matter what I did the chain would still throw some oil on the chainstays.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Stumpjumper FSR said:


> It is thick!
> 
> I used to follow the directions Frank listed on his website, it seemed to help if I warmed the bottle up first, also had good results with putting the chain in a toaster over after lubing. No matter what I did the chain would still throw some oil on the chainstays.


I met him at a bike expo once and complained to him about the bottle and the application. I also told him he should be selling smaller bottles for more money. The stuff lasts forever. I've had the same bottle for years. Maintaining mine and my GF's bikes about 10k mi a year and I think the bottle is still half full.

I've done the warming up of the oil. It helps. But I found that it cooled too quickly and I'd have to re-warm it. Diluting it a little works best for me. 
I've never had oil thrown from the chain. Probably because I've always applied it sparingly.


----------



## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

tlg said:


> I met him at a bike expo once and complained to him about the bottle and the application. I also told him he should be selling smaller bottles for more money. The stuff lasts forever. I've had the same bottle for years. Maintaining mine and my GF's bikes about 10k mi a year and I think the bottle is still half full.
> 
> I've done the warming up of the oil. It helps. But I found that it cooled too quickly and I'd have to re-warm it. Diluting it a little works best for me.
> I've never had oil thrown from the chain. Probably because I've always applied it sparingly.


So if I used 90W hypoid EP gear lube, and I applied it similarly (1 or 2 drops per link), do you think it would perform similarly to Chain L?


----------



## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

mfdemicco said:


> So if I used 90W hypoid EP gear lube, and I applied it similarly (1 or 2 drops per link), do you think it would perform similarly to Chain L?


I would hope so.


----------



## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

I have a giant $20 bottle of ProLink I'm working through. I like it a lot. It's very watery and doesn't hold up to wet conditions at all, but in dry conditions it keeps things clean and quiet.

The "black gunk" on a dirty chain isn't "tar" or "grease", it's aluminum oxide from the drivetrain combined with lube and some road grit. If you have a black chain, you're using to much lube. Many people liberally soak their chain, it's not necessary and it's just going to make things gunky. I recommend taking a couple of minutes and carefully applying one drop per link, working it in with a few spins of the drivetrain and then wiping off any excess. IMO, if you're riding in dry conditions your chain should be almost dry itself. Only the rollers and link surfaces need lube.


----------



## curtw (Mar 27, 2004)

OK, looks like there's only one I haven't seen mentioned--has anybody tried the "EcoSheep" lanolin-based chain lube?

(currently using, but tired of Pedro's)


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## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

It looks like we have a nice top 3 list going: prolink, chain l, and nfs. 

I have a TON of finish line lube left. Of course, I'm going to use it all. Or, maybe I'll sell it. I have at least 8 oz. of tri flow left. I have multiple packet samples of wd-40 chain lube, which I've read less than stellar reviews for. I've got some prolink samples left. 

So, I think I'm set as far as chain lube is concerned for a looong time.


----------



## jason124 (Jul 25, 2006)

I may as well drop in :wink5:, switched to ProLink myself as my alternate lube of choice is White Lightning (only because I have had a 3 pack for over 10 years). I also used up a friend's bottle of White Lightning Epic Ride, but was not partial to it. 

The ProLink does work pretty well and I tend to do a cleaning and new application every 100-150 miles. I clean it in an acetone bath using a CB chain cleaner, dry it off then apply a drop to every link. Wipe off excess and again after a 10 mile round trip commute. I may be over thinking about it getting dry, but I tend to re-apply once it gets a little noisy.


----------



## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

jason124 said:


> I may as well drop in :wink5:, switched to ProLink myself as my alternate lube of choice is White Lightning (only because I have had a 3 pack for over 10 years). I also used up a friend's bottle of White Lightning Epic Ride, but was not partial to it.
> 
> The ProLink does work pretty well and I tend to do a cleaning and new application every 100-150 miles. I clean it in an acetone bath using a CB chain cleaner, dry it off then apply a drop to every link. Wipe off excess and again after a 10 mile round trip commute. I may be over thinking about it getting dry, but I tend to re-apply once it gets a little noisy.


Dude, that's insane!!! Haha. I'd be cleaning my chain once a week... And with a whole involved process no less... I do half that and only wipe it down then reapply Finish Line dry.


----------



## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

jason124 said:


> ...I tend to do a cleaning and new application every 100-150 miles.


wth?? if I used that procedure, it would mean 70+ chain cleanings in a year.

got way better things to do with my time than pampering a $30 part...

a lube that only lasts 100 miles is not worth buying.


----------



## jason124 (Jul 25, 2006)

Oxtox said:


> wth?? if I used that procedure, it would mean 70+ chain cleanings in a year.
> 
> got way better things to do with my time than pampering a $30 part...
> 
> a lube that only lasts 100 miles is not worth buying.


Apparently I'm a little CDO... and for me that's once every 3 weeks to a month (or when it starts to get noisy). What would be a better intervals for wipe down/re-apply and a thorough cleaning?


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

jason124 said:


> Apparently I'm a little CDO... and for me that's once every 3 weeks to a month (or when it starts to get noisy). What would be a better intervals for wipe down/re-apply and a thorough cleaning?


I lube mine when it starts to get noisy. Which is 600-900 miles with Chain L. 
I couldn't imagine using a lube that requires application every 100-150 miles (a weeks worth of riding).


----------



## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

http://www.squirtlube.com/professionals/VeloNews2014-01.pdf

The slickest non-wax lube is Lillylube.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Notvintage said:


> http://www.squirtlube.com/professionals/VeloNews2014-01.pdf
> 
> The slickest non-wax lube is Lillylube.


That Velonews test is crap. 


> The chains were cleaned with an ultrasonic cleaner in odorless mineral
> spirits prior to testing, and then all three chains were immersed in
> a 100˚F bath of each respective lube and run in the ultrasonic
> machine for five minutes.
> ...


Odd that they don't follow the manufacturers instructions. Submersing all the chains in lube at 100°? WTF. And then running them for a whopping 10min. 
Who cares if a particular lube is the best for 10min? What's the best after a few hundred miles when applied correctly?


----------



## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

jason124 said:


> What would be a better intervals for wipe down/re-apply and a thorough cleaning?


same as posted by tlg...Chain-L about every 750 +/- miles.

the only 'cleaning' chains get is a post-ride wipe with a rag.

just don't see any reason for anything more labor-intensive than that.


----------



## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

Some reviewers claim chain-l is basically gear oil, only at 6X the cost.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

ex_machina said:


> Some reviewers claim chain-l is basically gear oil, only at 6X the cost.


Well maybe they could support that with some proof. In the meantime I'll continue using chain L. It's still cheaper than any other lube.


----------



## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

tlg said:


> Well maybe they could support that with some proof. In the meantime I'll continue using chain L. It's still cheaper than any other lube.


+1 I think the Chain-L guys say that the mix is theirs.

In addition, who the hell cares? What do people think other lubes are made of? Fairy dust? The only thing that matters is how well it works. 

Finally, I don't buy for a second this BS about the cost of chain lube. So, people whine about spending 12 bucks (the cost of a bottle of Chain-L) versus 2 (the _alleged_ cost of that gear oil) once every three years? Then they go right ahead dumping what could be perfectly good $60-chains once every six months? Give me an effin' break...


----------



## cooskull (Nov 30, 2013)

Agreed, the cost of Chain-L is a pittance for the mileage a bottle will last you (hope the Chain-L guy isn't reading this thread )


----------



## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

cooskull said:


> Agreed, the cost of Chain-L is a pittance for the mileage a bottle will last you (hope the Chain-L guy isn't reading this thread )


pretty sure Frank's been here before and know he posts regularly on Bike Forums.

seems like a good guy.


----------



## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

How long does that grease last that comes on a new chain? I strip that stuff off before first use and put my favorite lube on, but some people claim it's pretty good and long lasting.


----------



## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

I usually get 500+ miles out of the stuff that's on the Campy chains. I see no reason to immediately dump it. It's like the first-run oil in a new car to me: you leave it in there as long as it's good.


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

jason124 said:


> The ProLink does work pretty well and I tend to do a cleaning and new application every 100-150 miles.
> 
> If you're degreasing and relubing that often you may as well use whatever is cheapest, no matter it's properties.


----------



## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

jason124 said:


> Apparently I'm a little CDO... and for me that's once every 3 weeks to a month (or when it starts to get noisy). What would be a better intervals for wipe down/re-apply and a thorough cleaning?


CDO? That's a little Yoda...


----------



## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

tlg said:


> Well maybe they could support that with some proof. In the meantime I'll continue using chain L. It's still cheaper than any other lube.


Tig, do you use mineral spirits to dilute it? And do you mix it in the dropper? About how many drops or how much to get it to be applied by the drop? I love this approach, it circumvents the toaster oven and removing the chain... Also, and pardon the question barrage, do you wipe down or do anything to the chain between reapplications?


----------



## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

PBL450 said:


> CDO? That's a little Yoda...


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to PBL450 again.


----------



## jmoryl (Sep 5, 2004)

I used to be quite satisfied with ProLink (running Campy 10 speed) and didn't find it made my chain black or attracted excessive dirt if used according to directions (e.g. applied and the wiped off). But now I find home brew ProLink to work just as well: one part motor oil mixed with 3 or 4 parts mineral spirits. I'm really surprised there isn't more love for home brew here. An old ProLink bottle does make a good applicator.


----------



## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

mfdemicco said:


> How long does that grease last that comes on a new chain? I strip that stuff off before first use and put my favorite lube on, but some people claim it's pretty good and long lasting.


Technical FAQ: Cleaning that new chain and some follow-up - VeloNews.com

I wipe a new chain with a rag and then apply the most minimal amount of Chain-L possible to each link.

provides the quietest, smoothest ride ever...


----------



## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

jmoryl said:


> I used to be quite satisfied with ProLink (running Campy 10 speed) and didn't find it made my chain black or attracted excessive dirt if used according to directions (e.g. applied and the wiped off). But now I find home brew ProLink to work just as well: one part motor oil mixed with 3 or 4 parts mineral spirits. I'm really surprised there isn't more love for home brew here. An old ProLink bottle does make a good applicator.


I tried to get that riff started in this thread.

Anyway, I like prolink straight from the bottle. But I use it sparingly, wipe it off thoroughly with a piece of old tee shirt while rotating the crank forward and backward in all gears, let it dry overnight before riding, and reapply it when the chain starts looking crusty or shifting isn't quite perfect... usually about 500 miles... more frequently if I'm riding in dusty and/or wet conditions.

At a drop per link, it goes a long way. I don't feel a need to use some homebrew hamburger helper to stretch out a bottle.


----------



## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

Pirx said:


> +1 I think the Chain-L guys say that the mix is theirs.
> 
> In addition, who the hell cares? What do people think other lubes are made of? Fairy dust? The only thing that matters is how well it works.
> 
> Finally, I don't buy for a second this BS about the cost of chain lube. So, people whine about spending 12 bucks (the cost of a bottle of Chain-L) versus 2 (the _alleged_ cost of that gear oil) once every three years? Then they go right ahead dumping what could be perfectly *good $60-chains* once every six months? Give me an effin' break...


WTF? $60 chains?


----------



## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

SPlKE said:


> I tried to get that riff started in this thread.
> 
> Anyway, I like prolink straight from the bottle. But I use it sparingly, wipe it off thoroughly with a piece of old tee shirt while rotating the crank forward and backward in all gears, let it dry overnight before riding, and reapply it when the chain starts looking crusty or shifting isn't quite perfect... usually about 500 miles... more frequently if I'm riding in dusty and/or wet conditions.
> 
> At a drop per link, it goes a long way. I don't feel a need to use some homebrew hamburger helper to stretch out a bottle.


Aren't mineral spirits toxic?


----------



## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

ex_machina said:


> Aren't mineral spirits toxic?


Only if you forget to add the tonic water and slice of lime to your mineral spirits 'n' tonic cocktail.


----------



## jason124 (Jul 25, 2006)

PBL450 said:


> CDO? That's a little Yoda...


Its in alphabetical order :wink5:



velodog said:


> If you're degreasing and relubing that often you may as well use whatever is cheapest, no matter it's properties.


I guess I will try going longer. I was under the impression that dirt is bad, and with a SRAM chain, I just drop it into an acetone bath and shake.


----------



## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

tlg said:


> That Velonews test is crap.
> 
> Highschool education has done u well. Lol.


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

ex_machina said:


> Aren't mineral spirits toxic?


Ever read this?

http://bikes.progoldmfr.com/products-assets/products/msds/6698.pdf


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

cooskull said:


> Agreed, the cost of Chain-L is a pittance for the mileage a bottle will last you (hope the Chain-L guy isn't reading this thread )


I met him once and told him his stuff lasts too long and should sell it in smaller bottles. He laughed and said that's ok, share it with your friends and tell them to buy some. 




mfdemicco said:


> How long does that grease last that comes on a new chain? I strip that stuff off before first use and put my favorite lube on, but some people claim it's pretty good and long lasting.


Shimano stuff lasts a good 500+ miles. No need to strip it off.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

PBL450 said:


> Tig, do you use mineral spirits to dilute it? And do you mix it in the dropper? About how many drops or how much to get it to be applied by the drop? I love this approach, it circumvents the toaster oven and removing the chain...


Yea I use odorless mineral spirits. I'll fill this size bottle 3/4 full with Chain-L and add maybe 4-5 drops OMS (never really measured) The needle is pretty small. Straight Chain-L won't go through easy so I dilute it just enough to go through. 
Makes it simple to put one drop on each side of the roller right at the gap to soak into the roller. No mess.












> Also, and pardon the question barrage, do you wipe down or do anything to the chain between reapplications?


I'll wipe it down with a rag and some OMS every once in a while. Whenever it looks excessively gunky. Maybe every 300-400mi.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Notvintage said:


> QUOTE=tlg;5022997 That Velonews test is crap.
> 
> Highschool education has done u well. Lol.


It has. Even with a H.S. education it's obvious that Velonews test is crap. 
And then with a college education and Mechanical Engineering degree, it's incredibly obvious the test is crap.


----------



## Z'mer (Oct 28, 2013)

ex_machina said:


> Some reviewers claim chain-l is basically gear oil, only at 6X the cost.


It certainly has gear oil as one of the ingredients. That you can sniff out fairly easily. 
But it has another thing mixed in that gives it a sticky nature, to stay inside the link. 
That's what causes the webs from the chain if you use too much, or don't let it soak in. That is probably something like STP oil treatment. STP sticks and webs like crazy. 

Then probably something to dilute it a little, like mineral spirits.
If you already had all 3 sitting there on the shelf, you could try to your own hand at blending it. But otherwise, why bother? It's very reasonably priced, and lasts forever. And buying all 3 would cost a lot more than just buying it from Frank.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

tlg said:


> Yea I use odorless mineral spirits. I'll fill this size bottle 3/4 full with Chain-L and add maybe 4-5 drops OMS (never really measured) The needle is pretty small. Straight Chain-L won't go through easy so I dilute it just enough to go through.
> Makes it simple to put one drop on each side of the roller right at the gap to soak into the roller. No mess.
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you sir, much appreciated!


----------



## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

Z'mer said:


> It certainly has gear oil as one of the ingredients. That you can sniff out fairly easily.
> But it has another thing mixed in that gives it a sticky nature, to stay inside the link.
> That's what causes the webs from the chain if you use too much, or don't let it soak in. That is probably something like STP oil treatment. STP sticks and webs like crazy.
> 
> ...


But then I'd have 10X as much lube. (Once I figured out the proper proportions of course). 

Yeah, I wouldn't mind trying chain l at some point. I suspect I'd like it quite a bit. 

Having said that, I have 16 oz of finish line dry, 8 oz of tri flow, multiple samples of prolink and wd-40, along with at least half a bottle of pedro's (?) atb lube. 

After reading this thread though, I'm much better with regular chain maintenance. I wipe down the chain after each ride, and do a quick cleaning of the chainrings and cassette with a disposable paper towel as well. 

This is essential as the chain picks up a ton of dirt and sand on each ride. I was probably also less than vigilant about wiping off excess after lubing the chain before. 

Anyway, the chain is still quiet and shifting about as well as can be expected for my level of group: tiagra 4600.


----------



## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

Anyone mention Rock and Roll Gold? Pretty good stuff too.


----------



## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

jmoryl said:


> I used to be quite satisfied with ProLink (running Campy 10 speed) and didn't find it made my chain black or attracted excessive dirt if used according to directions (e.g. applied and the wiped off). But now I find home brew ProLink to work just as well: one part motor oil mixed with 3 or 4 parts mineral spirits. I'm really surprised there isn't more love for home brew here. An old ProLink bottle does make a good applicator.


Which type of motor oil and mineral spirits brand do you recommend?

Sounds like a fun DIY project.


----------



## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

ex_machina said:


> Which type of motor oil and mineral spirits brand do you recommend?
> 
> Sounds like a fun DIY project.


Back when I started using homebrew the recipe called for Mobil One synthetic oil. I've experimented a bit and my non-scientific conclusion is that the type of oil (including viscosity) does not make any noticeable difference. Regular oil made from dinosaurs works just fine. I don't know that the brand of ODS would matter either, since it just evaporates. One time I did use a "green" paint thinner. It had a milky color and needed to be shaken vigorously to mix in. Never used it again


----------



## jmoryl (Sep 5, 2004)

ex_machina said:


> Which type of motor oil and mineral spirits brand do you recommend?
> 
> Sounds like a fun DIY project.


As DaveG says, nothing special. I'm using Mobil1 because that is what I put in my car, but I would just as soon use any standard motor oil (bikes aren't a very demanding application, despite what we might think). And the mineral spirits are whatever they sell in a 1 gallon can at the hardware store.


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

jmoryl said:


> As DaveG says, nothing special. I'm using Mobil1 because that is what I put in my car, but I would just as soon use any standard motor oil (bikes aren't a very demanding application, despite what we might think). And the mineral spirits are whatever they sell in a 1 gallon can at the hardware store.


The cheapest and the best. :thumbsup:


----------



## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

velodog said:


> The cheapest and the best. :thumbsup:


Sheldon Brown recommended not to use a detergent motor oil because dirt gets dissolved in it rather than remaining on the outside of the chain.


----------



## jason124 (Jul 25, 2006)

PBL450 said:


> Dude, that's insane!!! Haha. I'd be cleaning my chain once a week... And with a whole involved process no less... I do half that and only wipe it down then reapply Finish Line dry.


Well, had to do another full chain off mineral spirit bath cleaning last night but it was justified. Did a 70 mile gulf coast ride with full cross wind. Also camped out at the beach for 2 days, the sea spray and sand left the bike pretty crusty and the chain sounded very gritty. The outside of the chain plates also started to rust (no no... no warranty claim, its been too long  but my friend's brand new Shimano chain is also showing some surface rust and it has the base lubrication still and less than 50 miles on it).


----------



## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

I've got a quart and a half or so of motor oil already. 

A gallon of oms runs about $15 at the hardware store.

I can get a small drop applicator for free somewhere.

A two gallon container might run me a couple of bucks. 

So, 4 oz. of chain l is $13. 160 oz. of homebrew will cost me around $25 if I had bought the motor oil. 

So, the price difference is $520 for chain l vs. $25 for the equivalent amount of chain lube. 

Any other ingredients to add other than those two? Otherwise, I'm set. 

How many miles can I expect with each homebrew application?


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

ex_machina said:


> I've got a quart and a half or so of motor oil already.
> 
> A gallon of oms runs about $15 at the hardware store.
> 
> ...


I'll wipe mine down and oil maybe every 2\300 miles or after a ride in the rain.

Bike in stand, spin cranks with chain running thru rag, a drop on each link and spin cranks a few revolutions, wipe down with rag to get excess off chain.

easy peazy


----------



## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

ex_machina said:


> I've got a quart and a half or so of motor oil already.
> 
> A gallon of oms runs about $15 at the hardware store.
> 
> ...


Maybe every 150-200 miles I run the chain through a rag, squirt some homebrew on the chain near the lower pulley and run through a rag until dry. I don't have the patience to lube each link, I just slather it on.


----------



## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

Without going back through the entire thread, I recall a few prolink users claiming 300-500 miles, and some chain l users claiming 1K miles before relube. Those are impressive figures, double or triple the homemade lube figures.

I guess they have ingredients which set them apart. Having said that, homemade lube is far and away the most economical choice.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

ex_machina said:


> So, 4 oz. of chain l is $13. 160 oz. of homebrew will cost me around $25 if I had bought the motor oil.
> 
> So, the price difference is $520 for chain l vs. $25 for the equivalent amount of chain lube.


Equivalent volume of lube isn't comparative to the mileage you get. It also doesn't take into account your time in buying, mixing, & applying the lube.

I bought my bottle of Chain-L in 2012. It's still ~1/2 full and I've got over 20,000mi out of it so far. 
$13 every 6-7 years ($2/yr) is hardly a financial burden for me.


----------



## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

tlg said:


> Equivalent volume of lube isn't comparative to the mileage you get. It also doesn't take into account your time in buying, mixing, & applying the lube.
> 
> I bought my bottle of Chain-L in 2012. It's still ~1/2 full and I've got over 20,000mi out of it so far.
> $13 every 6-7 years ($2/yr) is hardly a financial burden for me.


I think my can of one lube is over 5 years old. I use it for everything not just bikes, and I have 1/4 can left. In the end, it will be about $1 a year.

Home brew is cheaper, of course. But the $$$ is so small for what you actually use, that should not be a concern. Home brew lube has the biggest advantage in customization, imo. Lighter in the dry, heavier in the wet, super heavy in the snow. That makes sense, for someone who gives that much of a flying fig about it.


----------



## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

the cost of chain lube is a critical factor in cycling budgets...?

thousands of $$$ spent on frames, forks, groupsets, wheels, clothing...but $12 for a bottle of lube is an issue???

get real.


----------



## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

Oxtox said:


> the cost of chain lube is a critical factor in cycling budgets...?
> 
> thousands of $$$ spent on frames, forks, groupsets, wheels, clothing...but $12 for a bottle of lube is an issue???
> 
> get real.


Agreed. False economy. What I pay for chain lube is among the least cost item I purchase for my bike. I'd rather use a lube that doesn't act like fly paper for dirt. My chains and cogs last longer as a result so I save money there and I have less bike maintenance as well which saves me time.


----------



## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

Oxtox said:


> the cost of chain lube is a critical factor in cycling budgets...?
> 
> thousands of $$$ spent on frames, forks, groupsets, wheels, clothing...but $12 for a bottle of lube is an issue???
> 
> get real.


Its not the actual cost than turns me away, its the fact that I am paying $12 for a product that some marketing person says has "metal friction reducer technology" when I know they just mean regular old oil. Plus using homebrew has a certain renegade appeal to it. Also, my homebrew has "molecular level movement enhancing emollient"


----------



## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

DaveG said:


> Its not the actual cost than turns me away, its the fact that I am paying $12 for a product that some marketing person says has "metal friction reducer technology" when I know they just mean regular old oil. Plus using homebrew has a certain renegade appeal to it. Also, my homebrew has "molecular level movement enhancing emollient"


in the interest of experimentation, I made a batch of homebrew once. it was meh-tastic.

some of the commercial products are simply superior lubricants.

but, by all means, use what ever makes you feel all mavericky...


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

DaveG said:


> Its not the actual cost than turns me away, its the fact that I am paying $12 for a product that some marketing person says has "metal friction reducer technology" when I know they just mean regular old oil.


Have you been to the Chain-L website? I'm pretty sure there's no "marketing person". I believe it's a 1 or 2 man operation. 

What's your basis for claiming it's regular old oil? And which "regular" oil is it? There's hundreds of variations of motor oil, gear oil, & lubrication oil. Clearly all oil isn't equal. 
Given that people using Chain-L get 700-1000mi between lubes and you're doing it every 150-200mi, your choice of regular old oil is severely lacking.


----------



## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

DaveG said:


> Its not the actual cost than turns me away, its the fact that I am paying $12 for a product that some marketing person says has "metal friction reducer technology" when I know they just mean regular old oil. Plus using homebrew has a certain renegade appeal to it. Also, my homebrew has "molecular level movement enhancing emollient"


Yes, but ProLink has electrolytes!


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

tlg said:


> Have you been to the Chain-L website? I'm pretty sure there's no "marketing person". I believe it's a 1 or 2 man operation.
> 
> What's your basis for claiming it's regular old oil? And which "regular" oil is it? There's hundreds of variations of motor oil, gear oil, & lubrication oil. Clearly all oil isn't equal.
> Given that people using Chain-L get 700-1000mi between lubes and you're doing it every 150-200mi, your choice of regular old oil is severely lacking.


I was speaking of Prolink which makes the metal friction reducer technology claim. If Chain-L is a one or two man operation then it seems unlikely that they have the resources to develop their own unique material or do extensive testing. I assume they are mixing readily available stuff together. In the Velo News article where they tested friction loss, Chain-L did pretty well, although only slightly better than 3-in-1 oil and AGS Motor and Bearing oil. I remain skeptical that a single chain lube is vastly superior to all the rest. If that were the case, there would not be dozens on the market, all with their own advocates


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

DaveG said:


> I was speaking of Prolink which makes the metal friction reducer technology claim. If Chain-L is a one or two man operation then it seems unlikely that they have the resources to develop their own unique material or do extensive testing. I assume they are mixing readily available stuff together.


Correct. But selecting the correct materials and mixing them properly obviously makes a huge difference that just mixing "regular old oil" with mineral spirits. There's quite a bit of value to their research. 



> In the Velo News article where they tested friction loss, Chain-L did pretty well, although only slightly better than 3-in-1 oil and AGS Motor and Bearing oil.


 Yea that test they did is pure crap. Read up on their testing methods. 

The chains were cleaned with an ultrasonic cleaner in odorless mineral 
spirits prior to testing, and then all three chains were immersed in 
a 100˚F bath of each respective lube and run in the ultrasonic 
machine for five minutes.

The chains were then hung to dry for thirty minutes, wiped clean,
then mounted.

Chain tension simulating 250 watts of rider output was applied, 
and each chain was run for five minutes, with data 
captured at the end of each five-minute run.​
It's not surprising at all that if you submerse a chain in Chain-L, then run it for only 5min, it would have more resistance since it's over saturated. And who the hell in the real world submerses their chain in 100˚F lube bath? And who cares how well a chain performs for a whopping 5 minutes? 
I find it really really odd that they didn't perform their test following the lube manufacturers instructions for application. And more odd that they didn't test for at least the duration of a complete bike ride.


----------



## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

tlg said:


> Correct. But selecting the correct materials and mixing them properly obviously makes a huge difference that just mixing "regular old oil" with mineral spirits. There's quite a bit of value to their research.
> 
> Yea that test they did is pure crap. Read up on their testing methods.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately we don't have a bunch of independent studies showing friction, wear, and cleanliness characteristic of all the lubes. So instead we have marketing claims. I cant say there are no difference in chain lubes but I suspect the variability is small. Also, I don't think frequency of lubing is a good indicator of anything other then preference on how clean/dirty each user likes his chain. I think my own process is more based on my average miles per week than any evaluation of the chain. Besides, Huffy owners never lube their chains but they still work


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

DaveG said:


> Also, I don't think frequency of lubing is a good indicator of anything other then preference on how clean/dirty each user likes his chain. I think my own process is more based on my average miles per week than any evaluation of the chain.


Frequency of lube is absolutely an indicator. If the lube doesn't have the properties to remain in place then it isn't working well. 

I don't lube my chain based on how clean or dirty it is. I lube it when it begins to make noise. Which for me is usually over 700mi. My chains last ~8k miles.


----------



## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

DaveG said:


> Also, I don't think frequency of lubing is a good indicator of anything other then preference on how clean/dirty each user likes his chain.


huh?

I wipe the chain after every ride, so lubing isn't based on appearances...it gets lubed when it starts to sound or feel raspy...


----------



## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

As flawed as (you think) that testing is, it's far more comprehensive and controlled than any of the anecdotes being posted here on these forums.

It may not simulate real world conditions, but if you think about it, those are so variable it would be nearly impossible. Folks who live in hot humid coastal areas have different experiences than those who ride in dry desert type areas. And along with climate variables, there are riding conditions (rain, wet, sandy, dry, etc...). 

They did a controlled test in a laboratory. Take from it what you will.


----------



## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

tlg said:


> Equivalent volume of lube isn't comparative to the mileage you get. *It also doesn't take into account your time in buying, mixing, & applying the lube.*
> 
> I bought my bottle of Chain-L in 2012. It's still ~1/2 full and I've got over 20,000mi out of it so far.
> $13 every 6-7 years ($2/yr) is hardly a financial burden for me.


Yeah, it requires a bit more effort, but I see it as a fun DIY project rather than a financial investment. How much extra time is involved really? One or two trips to the local hardware and auto stores just takes a few minutes. Mixing the ingredients couldn't take long. 

The cost difference for equivalent amount of lube (factoring in the longer intervals for prolink and chain l) is still huge: conservatively, it's still at least 5X as expensive for commercial chain lube.


----------



## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

Oxtox said:


> *in the interest of experimentation, I made a batch of homebrew once. it was meh-tastic.*
> 
> some of the commercial products are simply superior lubricants.
> 
> but, by all means, use what ever makes you feel all mavericky...


Well, this is the type of informative post I'm looking for. 

I'm wondering if the stp oil treatment was the missing factor...


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Migen21 said:


> As flawed as (you think) that testing is, it's far more comprehensive and controlled than any of the anecdotes being posted here on these forums.
> 
> It may not simulate real world conditions, but if you think about it, those are so variable it would be nearly impossible. Folks who live in hot humid coastal areas have different experiences than those who ride in dry desert type areas. And along with climate variables, there are riding conditions (rain, wet, sandy, dry, etc...).
> 
> They did a controlled test in a laboratory. Take from it what you will.


They did a "controlled" test in a manner that's irrelevant to real life. I suppose a controlled test in a laboratory on the effectiveness of the birth control pill for women who've had hysterectomies would provide comprehensive results too. 

If you think a 5min test of a chain bathed in lube provides you anything useful you're quite mistaken. A lube that might perform great for 5min might perform horrible in 1hr. I'm pretty sure we all ride our bikes for more than 5min.
Bathing a chain in thick lube obviously is going to have more resistance than a thin wax lube in the first 5min.

A controlled test of CRAP. I take nothing from it.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

ex_machina said:


> Yeah, it requires a bit more effort, but I see it as a fun DIY project rather than a financial investment. How much extra time is involved really? One or two trips to the local hardware and auto stores just takes a few minutes. Mixing the ingredients couldn't take long.


 Hey I'm all for DIY projects just for the sake of it. If that's the purpose, great.
But let's not kid ourselves that there's not quite an investment in time. I don't know where you live, but I live within 2mi. of hardware stores, walmart, and auto stores. There's no way I could get in my car, go shop for the ingredients and be home in a few minutes. I'd imagine you'd want to compare viscosities/properties of different oils? That takes time too.
Mixing the ingredients couldn't take long? Sure. How many batches will you mix till you get it right? 
You're gonna have a couple hours invested. Nothing wrong with that if you enjoy it. But an hour of my time is FAR more valuable than a $12 bottle of lube.




> The cost difference for equivalent amount of lube (factoring in the longer intervals for prolink and chain l) is still huge: conservatively, it's still at least 5X as expensive for commercial chain lube.


No It's not huge. Let's have a little perspective. 
Chain-L costs me $2/yr. I lose more than that in pocket change. Even if homebrew costs $0.02/yr, the cost difference isn't "huge".


----------



## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

Oxtox said:


> huh?
> 
> I wipe the chain after every ride, so lubing isn't based on appearances...it gets lubed when it starts to sound or feel raspy...


My point was if User A says he cleans and lubes his chain every 200 mikes and user B says he does it every 400 miles that probably doesn't mean that user B has a better lube it more likely means user A likes a cleaner chain

Now if you are wiping down your chain every ride that does not apply; I don't think most riders are doing that


----------



## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

some guy over on Bike Forums just posted his 'secret' homebrew recipe...

the ingredients managed to include every single item on Sheldon Brown's 'do NOT use' lube list.

funny.


----------



## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

tlg said:


> Hey I'm all for DIY projects just for the sake of it. If that's the purpose, great.
> But let's not kid ourselves that there's not quite an investment in time. I don't know where you live, but I live within 2mi. of hardware stores, walmart, and auto stores. There's no way I could get in my car, go shop for the ingredients and be home in a few minutes. I'd imagine you'd want to compare viscosities/properties of different oils? That takes time too.
> Mixing the ingredients couldn't take long? Sure. How many batches will you mix till you get it right?
> You're gonna have a couple hours invested. Nothing wrong with that if you enjoy it. But an hour of my time is FAR more valuable than a $12 bottle of lube.
> ...


wow, that is an interesting analysis of homebrew mixing time allocation. Wine is easier to make. I don't know about you but I always have a can of mineral spirits (turns out you can also clean paint brushes with it) and some oil in the garage. Every few months I pour seem oil and mineral spirits in a squirt bottle and shake it up. Yes there are a few Druid incantations and a animal sacrifice but those can be rushed through


----------



## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

DaveG said:


> My point was if User A says he cleans and lubes his chain every 200 mikes and user B says he does it every 400 miles that probably doesn't mean that user B has a better lube it more likely means user A likes a cleaner chain.


still confused by your contention that lubing is done to improve APPEARANCE.

I apply a product when there's an indication that there's insufficient LUBRICATION as evidenced by sound and/or feel...not looks.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Oxtox said:


> still confused by your contention that lubing is done to improve APPEARANCE.
> 
> I apply a product when there's an indication that there's insufficient LUBRICATION as evidenced by sound and/or feel...not looks.


What?!? You mean you don't replace the oil in your car when the dipstick turns black?


----------



## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

tlg said:


> Hey I'm all for DIY projects just for the sake of it. If that's the purpose, great.
> But let's not kid ourselves that there's not quite an investment in time. I don't know where you live, but I live within 2mi. of hardware stores, walmart, and auto stores. There's no way I could get in my car, go shop for the ingredients and be home in a few minutes. I'd imagine you'd want to compare viscosities/properties of different oils? That takes time too.
> Mixing the ingredients couldn't take long? Sure. How many batches will you mix till you get it right?
> You're gonna have a couple hours invested. Nothing wrong with that if you enjoy it. But an hour of my time is FAR more valuable than a $12 bottle of lube.
> ...


WTF are you talking about?

Your time is too valuable? You've posted here EIGHT THOUSAND times!


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

DaveG said:


> wow, that is an interesting analysis of homebrew mixing time allocation. Wine is easier to make. I don't know about you but I always have a can of mineral spirits (turns out you can also clean paint brushes with it) and some oil in the garage.


The message I replied to said specifically "One or two trips to the local hardware and auto stores just takes a few minutes.". So yea my analysis is about right

Even if you have all the ingredients, there's still some trial and error in getting the mix right. I bet you'll invest more than an hour.
And of course your "regular old oil" in your garage is doubtful to have the same properties. So you'll be making an inferior product. Do you know what viscosity and weight oil works best?


----------



## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

tlg said:


> The message I replied to said specifically "One or two trips to the local hardware and auto stores just takes a few minutes.". So yea my analysis is about right
> 
> Even if you have all the ingredients, there's still some trial and error in getting the mix right. I bet you'll invest more than an hour.
> And of course your "regular old oil" in your garage is doubtful to have the same properties. So you'll be making an inferior product. Do you know what viscosity and weight oil works best?


Why are you still posting here? I thought your time was too valuable!


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

ex_machina said:


> WTF are you talking about?
> 
> Your time is too valuable? You've posted here EIGHT THOUSAND times!








Oh my.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

ex_machina said:


> WTF are you talking about?
> 
> Your time is too valuable? You've posted here EIGHT THOUSAND times!


Uhhh because they don't let me mix oil here in the office. 
I don't spend my time on here from home.
That's WTF I'm talking about.


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## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

tlg said:


> Uhhh because they don't let me mix oil here in the office.
> I don't spend my time on here from home.
> That's WTF I'm talking about.


Seriously, you are just embarrassing yourself. I have all of the ingredients and supplies I need already. I need to buy OMS and stp oil treatment. 15 minutes each.

Mixing will take me a few minutes. Pouring the batch into a container, maybe a minute. 

The formula is established. 3 parts OMS, 1 part oil. 

You're making it sound like some herculean feat. It's about as complicated as mixing a salad.

If you think it's any more difficult than that, it's a miracle you made it out of bed this morning.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

ex_machina said:


> Seriously, you are just embarrassing yourself. *I have all of the ingredients and supplies I need already*. I need to buy OMS and stp oil treatment. 15 minutes each.


LMAO... speaking of embarrassing yourself....



ex_machina said:


> How much extra time is involved really? O*ne or two trips to the local hardware and auto stores just takes a few minutes*. Mixing the ingredients couldn't take long.


Why are you making 1- 2 trips when you have all the ingredients? 



> If you think it's any more difficult than that, it's a miracle you made it out of bed this morning.


You have me gravely confused with someone who gives two sh!ts about spending any time making homebrew. Why would I waste 1 second making an inferior product that I have to replace every couple rides.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

tlg said:


> Uhhh because they don't let me mix oil here in the office.
> I don't spend my time on here from home.
> That's WTF I'm talking about.


Buckle down and work


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## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

tlg said:


> LMAO... speaking of embarrassing yourself....
> 
> Why are you making 1- 2 trips when you have all the ingredients?
> 
> You have me gravely confused with someone who gives two sh!ts about spending any time making homebrew. Why would I waste 1 second making an inferior product that I have to replace every couple rides.


Why are you still posting here when your time is so "valuable?"

If you don't give two sh1ts about homebrew chain lube, why are you posting every 5 minutes in this thread about homebrew chain lube?


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

Oxtox said:


> still confused by your contention that lubing is done to improve APPEARANCE.
> 
> I apply a product when there's an indication that there's insufficient LUBRICATION as evidenced by sound and/or feel...not looks.


I think we can agree on that but most people clean and lube their chain when its dirty not when its starts squeaking (which is probably too late). You have already said you prefer to clean your chain daily so that is a different situation (and maybe a bit OCD)


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

ex_machina said:


> Why are you still posting here when your time is so "valuable?"
> 
> If you don't give two sh1ts about homebrew chain lube, why are you posting every 5 minutes in this thread about homebrew chain lube?


Why are you so angry???
I said my time was more valuable than wasting it making homebrew. Pay attention.
FYI... read the thread title. It's not a thread about homebrew.


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## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

DaveG said:


> I think we can agree on that but most people clean and lube their chain when its dirty not when its starts squeaking (which is probably too late). You have already said you prefer to clean your chain daily so that is a different situation (and maybe a bit OCD)


It's not either/or.

With prolink, the chain and cassette are MUCH cleaner looking, and the drivetrain is far quieter and smoother shifting than with either finish line dry or especially tri-flow. 

I didn't even bother using a chain cleaning device like I did before applying tri flow and finish line. 

With prolink, I just wiped off as much dirt as I could with paper towels, then sloppily applied the prolink from a sample pack. I probably only applied about half of it, actually.


----------



## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

tlg said:


> Why are you so angry???
> I said my time was more valuable than wasting it making homebrew. Pay attention.
> FYI... read the thread title. It's not a thread about homebrew.


LOL, stop projecting, bro. 

Yeah, got it. Your time is not valuable at all. Hence, 8K posts. 

And thanks for playing thread nazi and forum troll.


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

tlg said:


> The message I replied to said specifically "One or two trips to the local hardware and auto stores just takes a few minutes.". So yea my analysis is about right
> 
> Even if you have all the ingredients, there's still some trial and error in getting the mix right. I bet you'll invest more than an hour.
> And of course your "regular old oil" in your garage is doubtful to have the same properties. So you'll be making an inferior product. Do you know what viscosity and weight oil works best?


Homebrew recipes have been around on the web since I was on USenet way befor RBR. I have already said that I believe viscosity is a non factor (outside of extremes). Over the years I have tried a few different ones and noticed no difference. I go 4 parts ODS and 1 part oil. Being exact is kinda pointless since the ODS evaporates just like the solvents in any commercial, chain lube. Chain lube is a pretty subjective thing but you seem to have a major issue with homebrew that most people reserve for topics of religion or politics


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

tlg said:


> Equivalent volume of lube isn't comparative to the mileage you get. It also doesn't take into account your time in buying, mixing, & applying the lube.
> 
> I bought my bottle of Chain-L in 2012. It's still ~1/2 full and I've got over 20,000mi out of it so far.
> $13 every 6-7 years ($2/yr) is hardly a financial burden for me.


Yeah, it's not really comparable, if you make a big tub of home brew and never use it all the comparison doesn't hold merit...

Alternately, if you mix the products in small batches and have the ingredients around, in shop supply, so to speak, how do you account for using the products for other purposes?


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

DaveG said:


> I think we can agree on that but most people clean and lube their chain when its dirty not when its starts squeaking (which is probably too late). You have already said you prefer to clean your chain daily so that is a different situation (and maybe a bit OCD)


not sure what 'most' people do...but knowing the average joe is dumber than a mud fence, whatever it is, it's probably wrong.

but, I digress...

I haven't had a 'squeaking' chain since I was in about the 5th grade and left my bike outdoors 24/7.

as far as being OCD, I don't think putting the bike on the workstand after a ride, grabbing the remains of an old t-shirt, and wiping down the chain for 10 seconds to remove road grit is excessive maintenance. that's the extent of my cleaning protocol...chains never come off the bike except to be replaced.

anyhoo, if this dead-horse of a thread quivers again, feel free to bludgeon it one. more. time.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Oxtox said:


> not sure what 'most' people do...but knowing the average joe is dumber than a mud fence, whatever it is, it's probably wrong.


Wow! What a narcissist. Must be great being you, perfect, right all the time, everyone else in the world is an idiot... That's an easy DSM diagnosis. Not to be snarky, but you might want to seek treatment for that...


----------



## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

PBL450 said:


> Wow! What a narcissist. Must be great being you, perfect, right all the time, everyone else in the world is an idiot... That's an easy DSM diagnosis. Not to be snarky, but you might want to seek treatment for that...


You're not being snarky, oxtox is some random old guy trying to pose as an internet thug. It's embarrassing.


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## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

Oxtox said:


> not sure what 'most' people do...but knowing the average joe is dumber than a mud fence, whatever it is, it's probably wrong.
> 
> but, I digress...
> 
> ...


Yup, you and your post indicate an abundance of fecal matter, for sure.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

DaveG said:


> Chain lube is a pretty subjective thing but you seem to have a major issue with homebrew that most people reserve for topics of religion or politics


I have no issue with people using homebrew if that's what they want to do. 
If you actually read what I wrote, the issue I have is people claiming it's this free miracle product that saves them oodles of time and money.
Which I've pointed out repeatedly, my yearly Chain-L expense is $2. Homebrew heretics have a huge hurdle to show that saving $2/yr on an inferior product that lasts 1/3 as long is a worthwhile venture.
That's it.


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## Z'mer (Oct 28, 2013)

Some folks like to trash friction facts, but I don't. I spent my career in the mechanical test and measurement biz, and to me, the methods they use, and results, are sound. 

Although they charge for the reports, a good bit of the results are summarized in articles they handily list on their site, here
https://www.friction-facts.com/about/recent-media

Besides running new chains with different lubes, they also tested friction versus chain wear, and friction versus dirty chain. Perhaps the shortest summary of those tests is here, point 9, on maintaining your bike - 
https://www.friction-facts.com/media/wysiwyg/Triathlete.JPG

Bottom line from those tests - dirty chains lose watts, and worn chains lose watts. 
Not everyone rides in the same conditions, so it should be a no-brainer that chain cleaning and lube requirements will be slightly, or wildly different for cyclists.

I guess that also means no one can really tell you to use the lube THEY use, and apply it / clean the chain when THEY do, or else you are 
1) OCD
2) wasting your time 
3) an idiot 

The above are my opinions. They may differ from yours.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Z'mer said:


> Some folks like to trash friction facts, but I don't. I spent my career in the mechanical test and measurement biz, and to me, the methods they use, and results, are sound.


I spend time doing mechanical testing and evaluation as well.
We'd be laughed at if we tested a product for 5 min in a manner contrary to manufacturers instructions. 

You really think immersing a chain in a 100˚F lube bath then testing it for 5 min provides useful comparative data? Really? 
It'd be foolish to think that lubes will perform the same after 1hr, 5hrs, 10hrs. Who cares if a chain has the lowest friction for 5min?


----------



## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

Are the friction differences between lubes really significant?


----------



## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

mfdemicco said:


> Are the friction differences between lubes really significant?


That depends wholly on how much time, effort and precious cash you put into making your home brew. Apparently.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

mfdemicco said:


> Are the friction differences between lubes really significant?


Good question.
For a 5min duration, it's rather meaningless. Over the course of several hours, maybe. Friction in the terms of performance, I don't think it means anything to any of us. In terms of chain wear, friction reduces life. So it could be significant over time.

Here is the velo test btw velo-friction_facts_lube_test
During the 5min duration, there's about 3-5watts difference. Pretty meaningless. Perhaps over the course of a few hours as the lube is worked out of the rollers that could change more significantly. 

They also did a longevity test for 60min. Oddly they only picked 8 of the 30 lubes to do the longevity test. 

We tested eight of the lubes for longevity, simulating
a single dirty, wet ride and testing efficiency
before and after. *Each of the eight was chosen as a
representative of a certain lube type*.

Each of the eight were chosen to represent a lube type. Yet they only picked 1 heavy lube. But picked 4 light lubes and 2 wax lubes. Ironically the best and worst were the 2 wax lubes. Hardly a representation of certain types of lubes.

If you read the test, it's obvious from their methods that they set up the test to make it look like melted paraffin wax is the be all end all. And of course at the end "_Friction Facts also sells pre-waxed chains, into which the company has melted ingredients like PTFE_" So surely there's no bias for financial gain there.


----------



## ex_machina (Oct 20, 2015)

tlg said:


> I have no issue with people using homebrew if that's what they want to do.
> If you actually read what I wrote, the issue I have is people claiming it's this free miracle product that saves them oodles of time and money.
> Which I've pointed out repeatedly, my yearly Chain-L expense is $2. Homebrew heretics have a huge hurdle to show that saving $2/yr on an inferior product that lasts 1/3 as long is a worthwhile venture.
> That's it.


Your posts are getting increasingly retarded. You have no point to make at all, you just like to post just for the sake of it. 

I've already demonstrated that EVEN WITH THE LONGER INTERVALS homebrew is far less expensive. 

You need to get a new hobby. Your obsession with chain-l is really strange.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

ex_machina said:


> Your posts are getting increasingly retarded. You have no point to make at all, you just like to post just for the sake of it.


Sorry you can't comprehend. Move on. Come back when you have something useful to add.



> I've already demonstrated that EVEN WITH THE LONGER INTERVALS homebrew is far less expensive.


I've never doubted how much less expensive it is. Merely putting into perspective. Your massive savings is less than*$2/yr* on a lube you have to use 3x as often.  What will you ever do with all that extra pocket change.


----------



## jmoryl (Sep 5, 2004)

Regarding the Velonews test cited above:

They have good things to say about lubes containing teflon, but my own experience with road bike 10 speed drivetrains makes me prefer oil based wet lubes from a subjective shift quality, longevity and quietness perspective. 

Note that their bar graph has a y-axis starting at 4W and going up to 8W which makes small variations look much larger than they really are. A large number of lubes using this protocol are probably the same within the margin of error what would be found on an actual bike. And I do see that they claim the equipment has an accuracy of +/- 0.02W, but it would be interesting to see what actual statistically determined error bars (from various measurements repeated under various conditions) would be. 

Use what you like, it probably won't hold you back in performance.


----------



## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

ClayL said:


> Funny, I felt just the opposite. Pro link turns my gold chain black within a week, white lightning seems to work best for me. Guess that's why we have choices.


The trouble with White Lightening is its wax based and doesn't last very long, like a third as long as petrol based lubes, like ProLink. The chain stays clean, though.


----------



## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

tlg said:


> It's about time to re-lube my chain. Been 701 miles with Chain-L. Last time was 900 miles. Oh well.
> My chain is black and greasy. And I don't care.


I use Chain L lube on the commuter. Francis recommends wiping the chain off after the first ride after fresh application. Thick lube attracts dust, but once you wipe the chain off, gunk doesn't continue building up and bike will ride silky smooth for weeks, three or four times longer than ProLink. Chain L rocks! :thumbsup:


----------



## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Fredrico said:


> The trouble with White Lightening is its wax based and doesn't last very long, like a third as long as petrol based lubes, like ProLink. The chain stays clean, though.


I apply it after every ride with a light wipe down. I ride in the deep sand often, I don't have any better lube ideas for the conditions...


----------



## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

PBL450 said:


> I apply it after every ride with a light wipe down. I ride in the deep sand often, I don't have any better lube ideas for the conditions...


The one place wax based lubes shine: on sandy terrain. :thumbsup:


----------



## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

So after using Chain-L for 3 or 4 months I think I'll go back to RnR Gold. I could tell Chain-L lasts longer but I don't mind ( and actually enjoy ) wiping down the chain and lubing the chain (1x/week) as part of my pre-ride ritual of looking at brake pads, airing up the tires, etc.
The Chain-L turns the chain black (as others have mentioned) but it does wipe off easily from the outer plates. The part I didn't like is like is that it really attracts dirt and probably stays on the inner plates and rollers where I can't wipe.
Anyone have experience with both RnR Gold and Prolink?


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

upstateSC-rider said:


> The part I didn't like is like is that it really attracts dirt


Not after you wipe it. At least that's been my observation with Chain-L for a year. BTW, which chain lube doesn't attract dirt when not wiped "dry"?


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

upstateSC-rider said:


> Anyone have experience with both RnR Gold and Prolink?


I've used both. I prefer RnR.


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

I used prolink for the last two years until I read on frictionfacts how it was one of the slowest lubes out there. 

Now I use Squirt and ride way faster (like almost 2 watts faster).


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

mfdemicco said:


> Are the friction differences between lubes really significant?


Significant enough that elite athletes are dipping their chains in parafin wax or shelling out 150 bucks for highly cleaned/lubed/one-off chains for their event. 

Steve Cummings just won a stage at the Dauphine and afterwards they talked about how he'd planned out for that stage and used a special CeramicSpeed chain. Wiggo did similar for the hour record. 

Stephen Cummings' stage-winning CeramicSpeed chain used at Criterium du Dauphine | Cyclingnews.com


Marginal gains...


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## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

bvber said:


> Not after you wipe it. At least that's been my observation with Chain-L for a year. BTW, which chain lube doesn't attract dirt when not wiped "dry"?


That's the thing, I can't wipe the inside of the plates (well, I guess I could with a few dozen q-tips) and the stuff I am able to wipe down (outside) almost seems gritty as it comes off. Just don't want that stuff on the ring and cassette teeth.
Works great in rain though, got caught out a couple of times and could tell it was still doing it's job.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

pmf said:


> I've used both. I prefer RnR.


I prefer RnR Red on dry days. Still have a bottle of ProLink around that I keep for when the weather is bad.

RnR Red is easier to apply and be ***** and span. Best purchased in the bulk bottle Amazon Prime as when applied right the little LBS bottle goes pretty quick as lubes go.


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## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

Does Prolink have a solvent carrier that evaporates and leaves a thicker lubricant behind?


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

mfdemicco said:


> Does Prolink have a solvent carrier that evaporates and leaves a thicker lubricant behind?


Yes. It does seem to work that way.


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## redlude97 (Jun 29, 2010)

upstateSC-rider said:


> That's the thing, I can't wipe the inside of the plates (well, I guess I could with a few dozen q-tips) and the stuff I am able to wipe down (outside) almost seems gritty as it comes off. Just don't want that stuff on the ring and cassette teeth.
> Works great in rain though, got caught out a couple of times and could tell it was still doing it's job.


Just use a cloth with relatively thick nap. I don't get any excess buildup with chain-l and it stays pretty clean after hundreds of miles in good weather on the weekend bike.


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## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

Anyone use Finish Line Wet lube? How long between lubings?


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

mfdemicco said:


> Anyone use Finish Line Wet lube? How long between lubings?


If you mean the "wax" based lube, about 100 miles, IME. Chain stays nice and clean, though! ProLink lasts twice as long, easily. Chain L even longer. It clings like grease. Wipe off excess after the first ride, and it will keep lubing the surfaces 3 or 4 times longer than any of the others. It also doesn't wash off in the rain.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

mfdemicco said:


> Anyone use Finish Line Wet lube? How long between lubings?


Finish Line Dry? I get 200 miles and no more before the drivetrain gets noisy. You can set your watch to it... But it seems to work fine if you stay on it.


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## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

Fredrico said:


> If you mean the "wax" based lube, about 100 miles, IME. Chain stays nice and clean, though! ProLink lasts twice as long, easily. Chain L even longer. It clings like grease. Wipe off excess after the first ride, and it will keep lubing the surfaces 3 or 4 times longer than any of the others. It also doesn't wash off in the rain.


No, not the dry. It's a wet, non wax, synthetic oil lube, medium viscosity. Reminds me of NFS. Maybe as good or better; maybe not. It used to be called Century Lube.


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