# SRAM Apex upgrade questions



## new2rd

So I have a Specialized Robaix that has mostly Apex components:
Apex FD
Apex RD
Apex shifters
1050 cassette
S150 crank not sure what the BB is
Tektro brakes (upgraded pads to kool stops)

I'm wondering what if anything is the biggest bang for the buck?
I've heard that Red shifters are awesome, although I don't know why


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## Wookiebiker

My suggestion....Ride it until it breaks, then replace that part with what you can afford.

With that said...For weight reduction replace the cranks, for better performance replace the shifters.


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## Retro Grouch

I own three bikes; one with Apex, the other with Force and the last with Red. The diffrences are subtle between them and not really worth upgrading unless your are a weight weenie and have money to burn.


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## new2rd

I guess I need to try the shifters, going by the SRAM website the only difference is weight w/ the same zero loss technology. Not sure why the Red shifters would feel any different since the cable movement outweighs the weight difference w/ the carbon paddles.


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## RiceKilla

new2rd said:


> I guess I need to try the shifters, going by the SRAM website the only difference is weight w/ the same zero loss technology. Not sure why the Red shifters would feel any different since the cable movement outweighs the weight difference w/ the carbon paddles.


Red is the only one with Zero Loss on the both left and right shifters. Also, no reports of the levers breaking due to usage.

My brother's bike has Red shifters and I do feel a difference, feels stiffer, more direct, and crisper, BUT it's not enough to warrant selling the Apex shifters just to go Red for the hell of it.

Just ride it until it breaks. Apex is an awesome group set.

I was going to purchase Red when I first got my new bike a few weeks ago. After some extensive ride time I decided it wasn't worth it and Apex does the job without any trouble. So I spent the money on stuff I've been needing such as a GPS computer and more cycling clothing.


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## new2rd

Thanks RiceKilla, I think I'll take your advice although I do like to tinker and upgrade. I'm happy with the Apex group, but was wondering if I was missiong out on anything. What chainlube are you using? I'm not happy with white lightning.


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## RiceKilla

new2rd said:


> Thanks RiceKilla, I think I'll take your advice although I do like to tinker and upgrade. I'm happy with the Apex group, but was wondering if I was missiong out on anything. What chainlube are you using? I'm not happy with white lightning.


I just left the grease that comes on the chain from the factory. It's been 3 weeks, have ridden in a couple of hard downpours and no noise yet, still silent.

But for road I typically use Finish Line's gold road lube, when the time comes.

PS- im a big time upgrader too, but I guess I am getting older and wiser and realizing that besides losing grams and looking good; in the end the parts wouldn't have made me a faster rider.


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## fenderf4i

Is the S150 crank the actual "Apex" crank, or some more generic SRAM part?


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## RiceKilla

fenderf4i said:


> Is the S150 crank the actual "Apex" crank, or some more generic SRAM part?


One of their generic cranks.

It uses a Powerspline BB. 1025g with BB if I remember correctly. But they are a stiff crankset.

New2rd - Same exact group that came on my Felt F6.


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## new2rd

I pedal harder and the bike goes faster and farther, so I guess the S150 works. Not sure how much difference I would feel with the GXP bb and Force crank? Too bad you can't try stuff on your own bike before buying, but then I guess the LBS's wouldn't make any money.


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## RiceKilla

I can honestly say i dont feel any difference from my sram red crank That was on my previous bike. 

Even when i installed the sram red cranks from a bontrager oem crankset i was wobdering the big deal was. Luckily i got the red cranks for a steal so i didnt feel like i wasted my money as much.


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## LongIslandTom

fenderf4i said:


> Is the S150 crank the actual "Apex" crank, or some more generic SRAM part?


The actual Apex crank is a 2-piece crankset designed for use with their GXP external-bearing bottom brackets. SRAM Apex Crankset | SRAM

The S150 is a generic crank, not part of the Apex gruppo. It's a 3-piece crank system designed for use with their Powerspline internal-bearing bottom brackets.

Personally, I like the GXP crankset/BB system better because it's child's play to install or take apart for maintenance, especially when used with an SRAM-compatible Chris King BB. The cranks come off with just an 8mm allen key, and the Chris King BB is far easier to maintain than any SRAM BB (just use a grease injector tool to inject fresh grease and flush old grease out of the CK BB at the same time, no need to tear out any bearing seals).


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## MarvinK

Yea, I agree the shifters are the only thing you'll actually notice a performance difference with... but really that's only once you get used to it. Don't spoil yourself, because it sucks going back to Force or lower once you've gotten used to zero loss.

If, like so many bikes with Apex spec, you have the medium cage and mountain cassette... those might be worth upgrading.. or at least switching out. Shifting is slower with the longer cage and I really think they didn't quite get the spring stiffness right on that version.


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## MoPho

Is there a significant difference between Apex and Rival brakes? I swapped my Rival brakes onto my new bike and replaced them with Apex on my old bike and the Apex braking is absolutely terrible. I even put the pads from the Rival brakes on.


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## LongIslandTom

I got bikes equipped with Apex and Rival brakes and I can't really tell a difference between how they work.. I use Koolstop Salmon pads on both of them though.

Maybe you got different brake cable housings on your bikes? I've seen discussions in the past about how brake cable housings with parallel wires compress less than housings with coiled wire, which translates to better braking performance, though I've never had the chance to try different housings and see it for myself.


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## MoPho

I only swapped the calipers, so the housing/cables didn't change on the bike. I've messed around a bit with toe as well, but it didn't seem to make a difference. Will keep trying


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## MarvinK

Could it be the rims? On some lower-end bikes the rims aren't machined and definitely wouldn't have as nice of braking surface....


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## MoPho

The rims didn't change, they worked great with the Rival


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## new2rd

MarvinK said:


> Yea, I agree the shifters are the only thing you'll actually notice a performance difference with... but really that's only once you get used to it. Don't spoil yourself, because it sucks going back to Force or lower once you've gotten used to zero loss.
> 
> If, like so many bikes with Apex spec, you have the medium cage and mountain cassette... those might be worth upgrading.. or at least switching out. Shifting is slower with the longer cage and I really think they didn't quite get the spring stiffness right on that version.


Yes, Apex is a mid cage. Are there other RD's that work on an 11-32 cassette? I thought that was the only option? Not sure about the spring but this isn't the first time I've heard that it's weak. Wonder if that's something that can be changed out?


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## LongIslandTom

new2rd said:


> Yes, Apex is a mid cage. Are there other RD's that work on an 11-32 cassette? I thought that was the only option? Not sure about the spring but this isn't the first time I've heard that it's weak. Wonder if that's something that can be changed out?


Yup. SRAM has a medium-cage Rival RD intended for use with 11-32 cassettes too. Haven't seen Force or Red follow suit though.

BTW even though it's not "officially" supported, lots of people (including me) has used Shimano's road RDs (such as 105 and Ultegra) with 11-32 cassettes too.


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## MarvinK

I Meant change to an 11-28 (or less) plus short cage. Apex is available in a short cage too...


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## RiceKilla

MoPho said:


> The rims didn't change, they worked great with the Rival


How long did you ride on them?

Might need more time to bed-in.



As for powerspline and GXP I feel no difference. But I will agree that GXP or external cup BB's are much easier to maintain, especially the Chris King's.

As for longevity on the powerspline we will see. I have almost 1500 miles on the bike so far and no problems yet still smooth and no sounds.


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## MoPho

RiceKilla said:


> How long did you ride on them?
> 
> Might need more time to bed-in.




Well the brakes themselves only have about 30 miles or so as I am not really using the bike now that I have the new one, but I put the pads from the Rival brakes on the Apex to see if that made a difference and they have over 1k miles. It didn't change anything. 
The only thing I can think of is that the pads need to be adjusted for toe, etc., but I had done almost no adjustment at all to the pads when using the Rival brakes on the bike and they worked great "right out of the box" (on the new bike too).








I'll keep messing with it, I was just wondering if there is any real difference in materials or anything between the brakes.
Thanks!


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## new2rd

I have noticed some comments about the Apex derailleur spring being "weak". What is meant by being weak? A stronger spring would shift faster, crisper?


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## RiceKilla

Definitely no difference between the Red and Apex equipped bikes in my house, as far as this "weaker spring".


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