# Bike racing will never catch on in the USA



## dave_gt (Jul 25, 2008)

Why?

A team sport where only one person can win... face it, bike racing is just too complicated and too long. Example: Why watch the TdF stages when you can tune in a half hour before it is over and catch all the action? Twenty-one times in fact!

Another example...Lance Armstrong has given up after the FIRST mountain stage in the Alps.... No one I know outside of dedicated cycling enthusiasts can fathom why he would not fight for himself... something about the racing code of ethics or some kind of crap that "average" Americans will never fully accept in my lifetime.

Cycling is just too difficult a sport for the average American to understand. After riding my bikes, and enjoying the TdF since the '70's, I STILL do not agree with a lot of it but that is just the way it is. Unfortunately, I cannot convince most people I know to even watch it more than once as they think it is too long, boring, stupid (all for one one for all but only one can win), or, worse, too weird.

Sigh..... even I do not agree with Lance throwing in the towel...er, arm warmers. It seems to go against what I have been taught all my life... never give up.:idea:


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## BuckeyeBiker (Aug 2, 2006)

There's more to racing than just multi-week grand tours. But yeah, I agree with a fair amount of what you've said.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

Cycling is fun to do but boring to watch. But you can conclude that the average American should like that as the popularity of Nascar shows. A boring race in a circle. Even MotoGP will never catch on, that's much more exciting.
The reason? Look around, 60% of American adults are overweight, not just by a little. Cycling holds no interest for them, KFC and beer and sitting on the couch do. While some of us are out biking they are sitting there, an excuse to drink beer on a beautiful weekend afternoon.


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## dave_gt (Jul 25, 2008)

Ha ha! I remember NASCAR in the 60's...win on Sunday and sell on Monday. Those cars were actually real production cars. Now, they are generic crap with not one single part being something you can buy from a dealer. A Camry...WTF? They are all built by the same group with NOTHING production...all specialty crap.

Watching NASCAR is even worse. I liken it to watching 5:00 traffic on I-285! I can't even stand the traffic around Atlanta so why would a sane person watch NASCAR on tv or, worse, pay huge amounts of money for tickets to do what you do everyday around Atlanta?

But, the fact is, Americans are generally lazy, fat and, probably not very smart either. At least I came to that conclusion for myself, lost 48 pounds last year and regularly work out, get in my roadwork and attempt to ride every week!

Yet, I was getting bored watching the TdF and now, with LA giving up, well, it gives me more time to ride my own bike. Stage racing is boring, too. Maybe I will find a local crit to go to!


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

Americans like the glory and thrill.. Hence why overpaid pansies are showboating on the fields every day. Want to watch real sports? Go watch college teams. Our pros are for entertainment and that is all. 

Cycling will never be as popular here in the USA because it isn't "cool". Too many people that look down their noses at us because we do a sport that isn't a social norm.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

Crit racing should get more coverage. I wish WCP would put together a 12 hour disc of the major Crits around the US each year. They have done the TDF to death. 

That said cycling is one of the most boring spectator sports on earth, except crits and track where the risk of crashes go up and everyone is going like mad. It's the reason the crowds are always standing by the fastest most dangerous corner of the race, the downhill hard right going 50mph. 

Personally I don't care for spectators at my races. I really hate those bells they ring. Some days I'd like to punch the idiots in the face that sit on their lawn chairs yelling out crap as I'm busting my a** trying to climb as fast as possible.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

ZoSoSwiM said:


> Cycling will never be as popular here in the USA because it isn't "cool". Too many people that look down their noses at us because we do a sport that isn't a social norm.


Cycling is like a lot of other things that aren't mainstream. Truthfully how many of us were into watching and learning about cycling before we started riding seriously. 

If you're not involved in it then it's tough to understand the sport. Only a person that knows what it's like to have every muscle in their body ache and burn from hours of riding hard can appreciate what a brutal sport this is.

America is dominated by the big guys, football mostly. It's part of our culture to worship them men with huge muscles. Cycling favors the skinny guys and that takes a lot of work for the average american to appreciate.


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## dave_gt (Jul 25, 2008)

heathb said:


> Cycling is like a lot of other things that aren't mainstream. Truthfully how many of us were into watching and learning about cycling before we started riding seriously.
> 
> If you're not involved in it then it's tough to understand the sport. Only a person that knows what it's like to have every muscle in their body ache and burn from hours of riding hard can appreciate what a brutal sport this is.
> 
> America is dominated by the big guys, football mostly. It's part of our culture to worship them men with huge muscles. Cycling favors the skinny guys and that takes a lot of work for the average american to appreciate.



Football players with big muscles? I beg to differ...it seems lately that most are absolutely just FAT...obese even. Sheesh!


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## seeborough (Feb 3, 2004)

Watching a bike race like the Tour de France and enjoying it requires long hours of self-education to gain a working knowledge of European cycling culture and tradition, which is mandatory. In order to appreciate the nuances and sub plots of a peloton, one must also, at one time or another, ride or have ridden a bicycle. 

The latter explains the general lack of appreciation for a vast majority of Americans, the former would be my suggestion to those who would like to become fans.


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## iamnotfilip (Jul 9, 2007)

heathb said:


> If you're not involved in it then it's tough to understand the sport. Only a person that knows what it's like to have every muscle in their body ache and burn from hours of riding hard can appreciate what a brutal sport this is.


Spot on. I think this is the only way you can enjoy watching cycling for more than 20 minutes at the end.


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

Considering when my coworkers ask about my cycling and I say..
"Oh this weekend was great.. Put in 40 miles on Friday and 60 on Saturday.."

They usually respond..
"you do that for fun?"


Anything that involves work seems to be uncool. Unless you have a ball in your sport... Maybe cyclists could play catch with Nerf balls while in a paceline. Kinda like hot potato.. That would ensure we become popular..


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

Agreed. It suffers from some of the same problems that Soccer and F1 face when trying to grow in this country. All three sports are pretty much acquired tastes.

I'm a big F1 fan and always have been and I am glad that F1 isn't mainstream in the US. Usually when something becomes mainstream, it changes its nature into something lesser.


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## asciibaron (Aug 11, 2006)

ZoSoSwiM said:


> Cycling will never be as popular here in the USA because it isn't "cool".


no, it's because it's hard. you really have to work to be a good cyclist, never mind a champion. it's very much an individual effort - what other popular sport is all individual - coming up through thwe ranks in cycling requires one to be very independent and focused. runners, swmmers, and chess players, they know the score 

back when i was racing in the late 80's/early 90's, we didn't have LA to inspire us and put cycling on the map, but the fields were always large in the weekend races i did. having over 150 riders in in several cats in a road race in Blacksburg sounds popular to me.

in fact, i can't think of a single race that wasn't crammed with riders.

if cycling isn't popular, why do we have daily LIVE coverage in HD of the TdF, the Giro, and the Vuelta?


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

Agreed. Most Americans are unwilling to put any kind of time into a sport. Ball sports can be done with little practice. Cycling is just too hard to do without lots of time in on the saddle.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

Crits are popular, if only for the college kids around here to sit on their roofs and watch for crashes.
There is a lot of interest in the TDF, but only because LA is in it again.
I'd love to see a huge American stage race, we have the mountains and the infrastructure to do it. The one race I remember helping organize at a local level, the main complaint was from the roads being blocked off. I could see a 10-14 day race before or after the TDF being doable...
I think many Americans would have some interest in seeing different teams from different countries duking it out on American soil.


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## seeborough (Feb 3, 2004)

_Maximus_XXIV Agreed. Most Americans are unwilling to put any kind of time into a sport. _
Very true.

_Ball sports can be done with little practice. _ 
Very *un*true if you want to play well.

_Cycling is just too hard to do without lots of time in on the saddle. _
Very true only if you aim to ride fast for a long time.


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## Comer (Jan 13, 2009)

To say ball sports can be done with little practice is ridiculous, unless you are talking about only the lowest level. Do you have any idea how quickly a batter has to determine whether or not he is going to swing at a 90 mph plus fastball? Riding a bike is a learned skill that can be done with very little practice. My son rode without training wheels at three, he sure couldn't hit even a slower fastball at that time.

Just because cycling isn't necessarily the most popular sport doesn't mean all Americans are fat and lazy. There isn't one fat person on my entire block and there damn sure isn't a lazy person here. After we got our asses handed to us in numerous hurricanes these people got out and began taking care of themselves, clearing debris, cutting up and moving oak trees to clear the streets etc.

Cycling in the USA is very popular, look at the amount of bicycles sold. Road biking has increased in popularity, mainly attributed to Lance Armstrong, like it or not. My son is named after Lance (disclosure: he was named in 89' when Lance was the national short course triathlon champion and I was heavily into tri's). A guy up my block has his company sponsoring a local cycling team and yes he rides a Trek, me an S3.

I read some of the comments on here about the people spectating the Tour of California and how they acted on the roads, has anyone else noticed some of the interference caused by the Euro fans?

We as Americans have many choices, my son played baseball, basketball, football, ran cross country, played on the tennis team and yes he was even on his high school cycling team at the Marine Military Academy. He is one helluva an athlete, very well rounded.

All this talk about Americans being lazy is just stupid. Are some Americans lazy? Hell yes, but overall true Americans (not the cradle to grave mentality of gov't care Americans) are some of the most industrious and giving people in the world. Just because every one of them aren't out putting in 75 miles each Saturday dressed in lycra doesn't make them all lazy and fat. FTR, I've seen some pretty fat Euro's over the years.

Finally, there are very few garages in American that don't have bicycles in them.

Have a great day this nonfat hardworking American will.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

nOOky said:


> Crits are popular, if only for the college kids around here to sit on their roofs and watch for crashes.
> There is a lot of interest in the TDF, but only because LA is in it again.
> I'd love to see a huge American stage race, we have the mountains and the infrastructure to do it. The one race I remember helping organize at a local level, the main complaint was from the roads being blocked off. I could see a 10-14 day race before or after the TDF being doable...
> I think many Americans would have some interest in seeing different teams from different countries duking it out on American soil.


You mean, like Tour of California?


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## izzyfly (Jul 10, 2009)

Well u could of said the same with soccer (or football as they call it in EU). It would never catch up, but after winning the gold in 96 an 04, you see a huge interest in soccer with soccer camps, soccer fields springing out of nowhere. One has to realize that when the US becomes 'champion' in a sport, the youth starts to catch interest (i see a lot of young people biking, getting hooked into crits, track), and before you know it you've produced a dozen lance's and more taylor phinney's. It's all incremental, but it'll get there.


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## ArkRider (Jul 27, 2007)

seeborough said:


> _Maximus_XXIV Agreed. Most Americans are unwilling to put any kind of time into a sport. _
> Very true.
> 
> _Ball sports can be done with little practice. _
> ...


You're right, it takes practice and training to play ball sports well. But the point is that most anyone can go out with their buddies and play a game of basketball, football, softball, etc. Because of that, they have some appreciation of what is involved and understand what is going on.

That's not as true with cycling. Although there is an exception to every rule, most people are not going to be able to race by simply having a "game" every other weekend or so without some sort of training going on in between.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

55x11 said:


> You mean, like Tour of California?


No, I mean across the U.S. or centralized, like Tour of America.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

actually, cycling has caught on in the US - the Tour of California keeps getting record crowds, next year will be significantly expanded, the domestic race scene gets large crowds, Tour of Missouri continues despite recession (and pumps big $ into that state) and the UCI has awarded a few new protour events to North America (including the return of the Montreal race). 

The real issue is calendar space - the UCI has tried for a long time now to expand beyond Europe but is hampered by the fact that the calendar is already pretty much filled by Euro races.


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## Snakebit (Mar 18, 2002)

Cycling has just not been a traditional American sport and without American heros we just don't seem to care all that much if Popolonica Bogdoyonovich can get up that hill first. Now Lance Armstrong.......................  (Thank you ever so much Greg Lemond)


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

In general I see my fellow Americans as those that want instant gratification. With most other sports (Ball Sports) you can grab a few friends and play without breaking a sweat. Sure you're not trying very hard but you can go through the motions. I doubt many people could do the same on a bike with as little effort. Unless you're cruising the boardwalk and barely moving cycling is more difficult.


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## Guest (Jul 20, 2009)

*I disagree*

As more and more people in the US get involved in cycling the sport will gain popularity. As more people get into cycling more and more companies will start funneling their advertising dollars into domestic races like the Tour of California, Missouri, Georgia and others like the Philadelphia, US Nationals etc. Think about the number of domestic races that didn't exist before this decade. It's not going to happen overnight and cycling will never reach football status but in another 10 years I think we'll all be surprised.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

dave_gt said:


> Why?
> 
> A team sport where only one person can win... face it, bike racing is just too complicated and too long. Example: Why watch the TdF stages when you can tune in a half hour before it is over and catch all the action? Twenty-one times in fact!
> 
> ...


I just got up. Did I miss something? Did Lance "throw in the towel"? When did this happen?

Second, The entire premise seems to run counter to the facts. More people are watching bike racing in the US than ever before--according to the statistics. Also, Biking is a growing participation sport in most areas of the US. When I was a kid there were no people over 50 years old riding bikes and now they seems to outnumber the under 40 crowd--except for kids.

Did the world change last night while I was sleeping?


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## baker921 (Jul 20, 2007)

You should try Test cricket. Lasts 5 days and often ends in a handshake and NO result!


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

dave_gt said:


> Ha ha! I remember NASCAR in the 60's...win on Sunday and sell on Monday. Those cars were actually real production cars. Now, they are generic crap *with not one single part being something you can buy from a dealer*. A Camry...WTF? They are all built by the same group with NOTHING production...all specialty crap.


actually, as of a few years ago (back when the cars were different), the hood and trunk had to be OEM, and if i remember correctly, the engine block had to be sourced from the manufacturer...not sure how that's changed with the car of tomorrow.


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

Cycling may "increase" in popularity but it will level off. The people (like all my friends) who were weaned on NBA, NFL, MLB, and NHL will never sign on for a sport where George Hincapie complains of not being _given_ the yellow jersey. Bruyneel talks of how "we wanted to _give_ George the jersey personally and professionally". People have to learn the nuances for sure, I wouldnt like cycling nearly as much without knowing the interplay of the sprinters and GC guys. But, there is too much _giving away _victories for gentlemenly reasons for the average US fan to glom on to. US fans want to see what they saw on yesterdays climb. Not this business of guys having the "right" to win. As Dennis Green once said, you play to win the game. From a live perspective, its pretty hard to sell a sport where you see it for 10 seconds as a blur. Props to the ToCA fans though!


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

I think the biggest hurdle the TdF and like stage races have to get over is the one undeniable question that comes every year from so many: "How can the guy in the lead not be winning?"

The problem for many, it seems, stems from the fact that the TdF has many categories at which to win. You can't simply point to a single person in the middle of a stage and have a blanket "he's winning" statement.

It goes downhill fast from there with the strategies that are more complex than a Rubic's Sphere. "Wait, so Astana _wants_ to give the race lead to someone else?"

Having said all that, I am extremely happy for what Lance has done for the sport no matter how genuine or fake the interest is. It is nice to hear something other than football and baseball.


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## root (Sep 13, 2007)

Biking is particularly hard sport to understand, even if you bike yourself. A lot of people have no idea how freaking hard it is and how super human those efforts they see on TV are. 

Most people won't know that biking is not about the bike, it's not about the legs, it's not even about the lungs, it's about the metabolism efficiency (which doesn't sound that exciting).

Like they say, biking is like church, many attend, few understand.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Most Americans will never catch on with me.


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## Swish (Jul 31, 2004)

Cycling is as much a sport as it is a soap opera, you have to know the underlying stories then it starts to get interesting. This holds true for lots of sports, with fierce rivalries, derbies, but with cycling it's an even bigger aspect.Part of the fun for me is in the commentary the one-liners, the conspiracy theories being tossed around. The climb to Verbier was pure fireworks btw.

as a recreational sport, cycling does have a higher threshold than a game of soccer,


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## Time2ride (Apr 12, 2009)

nOOky said:


> Cycling is fun to do but boring to watch. But you can conclude that the average American should like that as the popularity of Nascar shows. A boring race in a circle. Even MotoGP will never catch on, that's much more exciting.
> The reason? Look around, 60% of American adults are overweight, not just by a little. Cycling holds no interest for them, KFC and beer and sitting on the couch do. While some of us are out biking they are sitting there, an excuse to drink beer on a beautiful weekend afternoon.


Absolutely! Another problem for many over here is that they want instant gratification. It's all part of how we live. Patients for things is long gone. Many rush red lights because they can't wait a minute or two. Many get pissed off because they miss an elevator. We are a society of "I want it now!" No wonder very few are willing to sit through anything that requires a long wait for the outcome.


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

I enjoy drinking a few beers but sitting around all day when it's beautiful out seems like such a waste. We can only hope the next generation is more active. Otherwise we're going to see our health care bills skyrocket because of the general unfitness of our populous.

Meanwhile us healthy members of society pay the same price..



Viva la Bicycle!


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## identifiler (Dec 24, 2005)

Sorry to my aUS friends but the only modern PRO level american race to happen is gonna be in Canada, quebec, Quebec City and Montreal as a fall classic. Announced for 2010, this is to be the fall roubaix of America with full UCI PRO status (ie not a californian vacation). It is however not a stage race. Keep your ears on for more news.


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## Teebird (Jun 17, 2008)

I think what turns off a lot of people from road biking are the elitist snobs that talk $hit about everyone who doesn't think like they do. I enjoy getting out and riding and try to wave to all the other road riders out there. Some of them have their matching 'kits' on and won't even look up. I never have that problem riding my mountain bike. Most mtbr's are very friendly and talkative. Sometimes I fell that if I'm not riding a prince with $500 shoes and matching kit and weigh 155 lbs, I'm just considered a poser. I'm just sayin'!


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## Time2ride (Apr 12, 2009)

Snakebit said:


> Cycling has just not been a traditional American sport and without American heros we just don't seem to care all that much if Popolonica Bogdoyonovich can get up that hill first. Now Lance Armstrong.......................  (Thank you ever so much Greg Lemond)


Actually that is not all together true. Today perhaps, but not in yesteryears. In the later part of the 1800's and the early part of the 1900's, cycling was the biggest of sports in this country. So big, in fact, that millions of dollars were spent by cities to build huge velodromes. Madison Square Gardens was originally built for track cycling. Cycling had a huge fan draw. And one of the best known and perhaps the greatest of cyclists ever was a man they referred to as Major Taylor. He travelled to countries all over Europe devouring all competition. His life story is a good read. You might want to read about him and get in touch with the roots of cycling in this country.

Paving of roads was started to accommodate the cyclists of yesteryears. Many have the misconception that paving roads got it's start because of the automobile. Off course, the on-slot of automobiles increased road paving demands, but it was the love of cycling that set it in motion. It is sad that the automobile ended Americans love of the bike until recent years. But I doubt that it will ever climb back to the level it had back then.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

bigmig19 said:


> Cycling may "increase" in popularity but it will level off. The people (like all my friends) who were weaned on NBA, NFL, MLB, and NHL will never sign on for a sport where George Hincapie complains of not being _given_ the yellow jersey. Bruyneel talks of how "we wanted to _give_ George the jersey personally and professionally". People have to learn the nuances for sure, I wouldnt like cycling nearly as much without knowing the interplay of the sprinters and GC guys. But, there is too much _giving away _victories for gentlemenly reasons for the average US fan to glom on to. US fans want to see what they saw on yesterdays climb. Not this business of guys having the "right" to win.


And this is the real reason it won't be popular - too many of even the sport's fan's don't understand it.

None of that was about being 'gentlemanly' - it was that there was a tactical advantage to having GH in yellow. As in war, battles are aren't always fought with the aim of winning that battle, but, to gain things important to larger (or different) goals. 

'Twas less about giving it to him than that it was not yet time for Astana to take the throne. GH in yellow would force efforts to be spent on defense and attack of that position, allowing Astana to remain focused.

The bit that I can never get a non-fan to appreciate isn't with a team elevating one, but of the sublime interplay of competitors working together in a break. Or not. Or yes, but only for certain amounts of time up from the peloton, or for different purposes. All of this is simply that same sort of action, moved from the breakaway/stage to the team/race level.

WAY too much thinkin' involved to be called a sport in the US, even though these fellas are arguably the most fit athletes on the planet.


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## T-Doc (Apr 4, 2002)

too late...bike racing is catching on because cycling is catching on with boomers like myself who are now too beat up to continue long distance running, so we switched to cycling instead. yes bike racing tactics are a bit hard to understand for newbies but so are soccer tactics, and it is catching on also....


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## Time2ride (Apr 12, 2009)

Teebird said:


> Sometimes I fell that if I'm not riding a prince with $500 shoes and matching kit and weigh 155 lbs, I'm just considered a poser. I'm just sayin'!


There was a time when people rode a bike for simple pleasure. Now they feel that if they don't go out looking like a pro cyclist they will be laughed at or looked down upon. To hell with them. I ride my bike the way I want, and if I'm wearing jeans, shorts, pajamas, so what. If I want a good work out, I'll wear the kit, but if I'm out tooling around for the simple pleasure of riding, I'll wear what I want. And if whoever out there don't like it, they can kiss my...

Yes you're right. I am pissed. Because this is something that really burns my buns. I just hope I don't hear any sarcastic remarks from those snob cyclists when I'm out riding becasue I will write a whole new definition to road rage.

There, I've said my piece and I've had my rant for the day. Time to put on my JEANS and go for a ride.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

*"Armstrong in Second"*

Yeah, it bugs me somewhat that bicycle racing isn't appreciated enough in the USA. I half-laughed half-gagged, for example, when it seemed the only TdF headlines I could find in the general media after the Verbier Stage was "Armstrong in Second!"

But then again, it's heartening that the world's culture isn't yet monolithic. It's heartening that certain areas of the world are nuts about bicycle racing and others are not. 

That doesn't mean, though, that there can't be any appreciation across borders. A couple months ago, I sat next to a Frenchman at an LA Dodgers baseball game. He had never seen a game, either live or on television. Luckily, he spoke pretty good English. About the Second Inning or so, I explained the basics to him. By the Eighth Innning, he'd figured out the game enough to enjoy himself.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

Even my family rarely comes out and watches me race. The truth is most of the time they just watch you fly by once or prehaps several times and then it's over. 

That's why I think track cycling would be the better spectator sport for most americans. The problem is tracks cost big bucks to build and maintain and then we have the problem of finding enough riders to fill them up. 

Honestly numbers are down for all entertainment. People are more likely to stay in and watch TV, internet, computer games. We're becoming a world that goes out less and less, unlike say 50 years ago where there was less entertainment options and it was ritual to take the family out on the weekends. 

Then there's the problem with a fast changing America. Europe continues to live and hold onto their history, America is very quick to adopt the next big thing and forget the past, strip malls, McDonalds, Walmart this is what America has become, Europe wouldn't dare tear down their history to build such crap. This is why cycling will be apart of their culture a hundred years from now. Any race in America is on shaky ground if the economy isn't doing so well, but you'd never see the TdF cancelled if Europe was having the same trouble.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Stereotypes are fun! And say a lot about the people who use them.


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## trekrider2000 (Jul 18, 2009)

The same could be said about why American Football or Baseball didnt catch on in Europe. It doesnt mean they are fat and lazy I think its just a cultural thing. Some sports appeal to us as Americans and others appeal to them just like food, tv, movies, clothing, cars etc... As for Americans being fat and lazy there is no doubt we have our share of overweight citizens but we also have many of the worlds best athletes and won 110 Medals at the 2008 Olympics, 10 more than 2nd place China. I love to bike ride and I enjoy watching it on TV sometimes but its really not one of the best spectator sports considering in a road race you see a whole 10 second show as they fly past at least in crits you get a few 10 second shows but still not enough to know whats going on in the race.


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## robm6107 (Jul 16, 2009)

I guess no one here remembers TdT "Trump" during the 90's. Love/Hate him (Trump) but he tried bringing racing to the US. God what a thrill to actually see GL race back then thru Boston. Turnout was great but crit racing only applies to the avg. joe here thats able to hold an attention span over 20 min w/o looking for the next fix.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

dave_gt said:


> Why?
> 
> A team sport where only one person can win... face it, bike racing is just too complicated and too long. Example: Why watch the TdF stages when you can tune in a half hour before it is over and catch all the action? Twenty-one times in fact!
> 
> ...



It's called a TEAM sport.

Armstrong has respect for that aspect after realizing he is no longer #1.

He has had his years of support.

contador would quit so quickly if Armstrong would have tried to stay on his wheel or continue to attack contador.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

nOOky said:


> Cycling is fun to do but boring to watch. But you can conclude that the average American should like that as the popularity of Nascar shows. A boring race in a circle. Even MotoGP will never catch on, that's much more exciting.
> The reason? Look around, 60% of American adults are overweight, not just by a little. Cycling holds no interest for them, KFC and beer and sitting on the couch do. While some of us are out biking they are sitting there, an excuse to drink beer on a beautiful weekend afternoon.....


How true ... a weak justification to drink lots of Budweiser beer, get even fatter, and redder than a steamed lobster.

Where I live (So Calif) there are a huge numbers of incredibly fit cyclists, but just as many fat arsed, belly-rolled men and women still in their early 20s , who feel an urge to display their mid-section ... pretty disgusting.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Teebird said:


> ... I enjoy getting out and riding and try to wave to all the other road riders out there. Some of them have their matching 'kits' on and won't even look up. I never have that problem riding my mountain bike. Most mtbr's are very friendly and talkative. Sometimes I fell that if I'm not riding a prince with $500 shoes and matching kit and weigh 155 lbs, I'm just considered a poser. I'm just sayin'!


With some (most?) of us, maybe it's because when riding up an 8% hill at 12 mph and 170+ heart beats, we can't do much more than nod or grunt.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

My feelings get a little hurt with the negativity towards America, 

but........

It is a fruitless endeavor to try and explain to my curious co-workers why, even if he does have the legs and form, Lance Armstrong will probably not attack Alberto Contador in the coming stages. It would be rude and against the riders "code of ethics," but they just don't understand. They ask about it, but when I start to explain team dynamics, their eyes glaze over and I can see the lack of comprehension. After explaining that Lance will be courteous and work for Contador and the team victory, the response is something like: "yeah, but he's Lance; just wait and see; he'll come back and beat them all."


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

identifiler said:


> Sorry to my aUS friends but the only modern PRO level american race to happen is gonna be in Canada, quebec, Quebec City and Montreal as a fall classic. Announced for 2010, this is to be the fall roubaix of America with full UCI PRO status (ie not a californian vacation). It is however not a stage race. Keep your ears on for more news.


Uhhh, the ATOC moves to May in 2010 and they should get UCI PRO status.


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

bas said:


> It's called a TEAM sport.
> 
> Armstrong has respect for that aspect after realizing he is no longer #1.
> 
> ...


Armstrong *couldn't* hang on his wheel or attack...just sayin...


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## CyclocalLogic (Jul 20, 2009)

I am so disappointed that the seemingly endless decade long Lance fever has not translated into an appreciation for the sport in itself in the USA. I know, that's a captain obvious statement. Sorry.

On an almost unbelievably superficial note, American kids are not very likely to wear a Rabobank or Astana jersey to their public high school. Can you imagine the ridicule they would get?


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

CyclocalLogic said:


> I am so disappointed that the seemingly endless decade long Lance fever has not translated into an appreciation for the sport in itself in the USA. I know, that's a captain obvious statement. Sorry.
> 
> On an almost unbelievably superficial note, American kids are not very likely to wear a Rabobank or Astana jersey to their public high school. Can you imagine the ridicule they would get?


d00d wut football teem iz dat? i liek barca or real madrid.


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## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

ArkRider said:


> That's not as true with cycling. Although there is an exception to every rule, most people are not going to be able to race by simply having a "game" every other weekend or so without some sort of training going on in between.


But anyone can go out and cycle with his or her family, or ride to the grocery store, or to work for that matter. I don't see this as much different than going down to the park to play baseball, or to kick a soccer ball around. The "average" European is probably no more likely to train than the average North American. Very few cycling fans in Europe actually race, just like few play football at any competitive level.


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## CyclocalLogic (Jul 20, 2009)

old_fuji said:


> d00d wut football teem iz dat? i liek barca or real madrid.


I'm not following you. Are those division one teams? Because I have never heard of them. Who are their quarterbacks? Maybe then I will recognize them better.


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

So pro cycling hasn't caught on in the USA as a spectator sport. What's the big deal?

Arguably the two biggest sports in the world, soccer and cricket aren't hits in the States, either. Yes, cricket - add up the populations of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and a lot of the ex-British colonies if you don't believe me. Soccer has never caught here on despite having three generations, now, of kids playing it when they are young. 

Heck, add table tennis to the list since hundreds of millions in China follow that. I happen to like TT (good to see Universal showing it!) but the average NFL fan here couldn't care less.

Even the two biggest Canadian sports, hockey and curling, are duds in the USA. It's true -- hockey will never be a major spectator sport here. Don't believe me again? Why then did the NHL have to descend to Versus to get their sport televised? 

The point is that you can't expect your favorite non-mainstream sport <insert name here> to be accepted readily, wherever you live, despite how intriguing you may think it is.


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## CyclocalLogic (Jul 20, 2009)

moonmoth said:


> The point is that you can't expect your favorite non-mainstream sport <insert name here> to be accepted readily, wherever you live, despite how intriguing you may think it is.


You are right, of course. Whining is always useless. But I kind of see threads like this more as group therapy. lol. You are correct...we can not expect it...but that doesn't mean we cannot want it and share that frustration with like-minded people, right? At least that's what I thought this thread was about. I may be wrong, though.


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## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

moonmoth said:


> Even the two biggest Canadian sports, hockey and curling, are duds in the USA. It's true -- hockey will never be a major spectator sport here. Don't believe me again? Why then did the NHL have to descend to Versus to get their sport televised?
> 
> The point is that you can't expect your favorite non-mainstream sport <insert name here> to be accepted readily, wherever you live, despite how intriguing you may think it is.


As a Canadian, I've never understood why hockey has never caught on in the USA. I've never really even played it (soccer was the sport all the boys in my family played, hockey was way too expensive), but I love watching it. It must be a cultural thing. Every Saturday night the whole family gathered in the den to watch hockey. I remember as a kid getting into huge fights with my older brother over the games (he was a Maple Leafs fan, I was a Canadiens fan. One of my other brothers loved the Bruins). 

On the other hand, I fully understand why curling has never caught on as a spectator sport.


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## LittleRoadBiker (Sep 4, 2008)

Maybe I'm just crazy. But I get up early just so I can catch the entire stage from start to finish. Sometimes I'll even watch the second half of the stage again when I get home from work just to see what they talk about during the "extended" coverage. This is my favorite month of the year and my girlfriends least favorite lol.


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

Freestyle BMX and skate boarding are more popular than us! Which I need to admit.. watching a guy doar 15' over a 20' pipe doing flips and sticking them perfectly is impressive. 

Add the word extreme to just about any sport and people watch it.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

As a person that use to be a competitve vert skateboarder I can tell you that it's a hell of a lot more fun then road cycling, but by the time I was 21 I had busted my body up to the point that I had to quit after 12 years of doing it. 

Crit racing is fun, but it's no comparison to the rush of having my own 12' tall steel vert ramp in the back yard. I have pictures of Danny Way when he was 13 skating my ramp doing 720's, he had just turned pro and was on tour with H-Street.


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## Christine (Jul 23, 2005)

I love ice hockey, but sometimes (usually) don't have the patience to watch an entire game all the way through, especially if it's not the playoffs.

As much as I love cycling, I don't know what the hell is going on most of the time. Reading the thread about VS being controversial and Liggett being wrong and the riders not commenting while others are whining......no help at all!!

I just read about VAM, a totally new concept to me. And I still don't understand the basics: What constitutes the "pack" when it comes to the final stage times; how the green jersey is won (set points along the course for sprinting, or at the end?); how the King of the Mountains is determined in the mtn stages (wouldn't that be the yellow jersey winner??); etc. etc.


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## JaeP (Mar 12, 2002)

I wonder why Track racing isn't as popular as NASCAR. 

The principle is the same: Go fast. Turn left.


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## somdoosh (Jul 21, 2008)

Stage cycling is too complex for Americans? Have you heard of gridiron football? I've been watching the sport since I was a kid and I'm still discovering new rules season--I just learned about the fair catch kick rule last year.

As for a putative Tour of America, it would be a great idea, if only it were feasible. The U.S. is wider end-to-end than the whole course of every Tour de France ever held, and riding sea to shining sea would skip some of the more interesting geographic features and points of interest.

It would also suffer somewhat by comparison to the European GTs, for the simple reason that US mountain roads were laid out much later, and consequently far better engineered, than the paths up and down the Alps, the Pyrenees, and even the Massif Central. The steepest grade I've ever been on is Teton Pass, which only maintains a 10% grade for a short distance. 

On the other hand, a trip through Yellowstone in late Spring or early Autumn, or up Denali any time, would separate the men from the gods who walk (cycle) the earth.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

somdoosh said:


> Stage cycling is too complex for Americans? Have you heard of gridiron football? I've been watching the sport since I was a kid and I'm still discovering new rules season--I just learned about the fair catch kick rule last year.
> 
> As for a putative Tour of America, it would be a great idea, if only it were feasible. The U.S. is wider end-to-end than the whole course of every Tour de France ever held, and riding sea to shining sea would skip some of the more interesting geographic features and points of interest.
> 
> ...


 Try the Old Pass road. Check out Beartooth highway between Cooke City and Red Lodge, Mt. Some of the passes over the Big Horns. The Eastern Sierras in California. The Forest service roads in the Cascade range in the NW.

There are plenty of fine 'euro-style' roads in the US, many of them well above (in elevation) what the Tour guys see. 

I agree about fatty Americans and bikes, though. The oddest part about American's relationships with cycling is how resentful non-cyclists can be sometimes. You can be pedaling along minding your own business and get the most stupid-ass remarks from passing motorists for no dectetable reason other than maybe they don't like themselves being so fat and lazy and you being out doing something on your bike.


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## PhatTalc (Jul 21, 2004)

somdoosh said:


> Stage cycling is too complex for Americans? Have you heard of gridiron football? I've been watching the sport since I was a kid and I'm still discovering new rules season--I just learned about the fair catch kick rule last year.
> 
> As for a putative Tour of America, it would be a great idea, if only it were feasible. The U.S. is wider end-to-end than the whole course of every Tour de France ever held, and riding sea to shining sea would skip some of the more interesting geographic features and points of interest.
> 
> ...


I agree, American football is really hard to understand. And for that reason, it will never catch on in Europe.


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## fab4 (Jan 8, 2003)

The problem with american cycling is evrybody is fighting instead of promoting the sport. Columbia vs Garmin, Lemond vs Armstrong. Can we all just get along?


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

fab4 said:


> The problem with american cycling is evrybody is fighting instead of promoting the sport. Columbia vs Garmin, Lemond vs Armstrong. Can we all just get along?


:idea: 
interesting thoughts there...why don't they harness that negative chi and have a stateside race? have a balls-out race across montana or something, columbia v. garmin...first complete team across the line wins or something.


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## saf-t (Sep 24, 2008)

IMO, the problem is that with the exception of track racing (or maybe cross, depending on the course), your average fan can't sit in one seat and watch most of the action. Think about baseball, football, basketball, NASCAR, hockey, lacrosse, whatever- you sit and watch the entire game happen right in front of you. 

I think if you don't ride somewhat seriously, you don't have a clue what's happening when you see a race on TV, and can't relate to the participants. On the other hand, most of us have played traditional team sports at some level, and "get" those games.


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## identifiler (Dec 24, 2005)

> Uhhh, the ATOC moves to May in 2010 and they should get UCI PRO status


Not gonna happen, Giro will fight on that one. The Montreal-Quebec deal is done, full UCI status, not just a "should". 

Not that it bothers cause I travel to CA for the tour of Calif anyways.


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## EverydayRide (Sep 12, 2008)

The first American six-days

However, the event did not become popular until 1891 when six-day races were held in Madison Square Garden in New York City. Initially, these races were contests of raw endurance, with a single rider completing as many laps as possible. At first, races were over less than 24 hours a day. Riders slept at night and were free to join in in the morning when they chose. Faster riders would start later than the slower ones, who would sacrifice sleep to make up for lack of pace. Quickly, riders began competing 24 hours a day, limited only by their ability to stay awake. Many employed seconds, as in boxing, to keep them going. The seconds, known by their French name soigneurs, were said to have used doping to keep their riders circling the track. Riders became desperately tired. The 'Brooklyn Daily Eagle said:

The wear and tear upon their nerves and their muscles, and the loss of sleep make them [peevish and fretful]. If their desires are not met with on the moment, they break forth with a stream of abuse. Nothing pleases them. These outbreaks do not trouble the trainers with experience, for they understand the condition the men are in.

The condition included delusions and hallucinations. Riders wobbled and fell. But they were often well paid, especially since more people came to watch as their condition worsened. Promoters in New York paid Teddy Hale $5,000 when he won in 1896 and he won "like a ghost, his face as white as a corpse, his eyes no longer visible because they'd retreated into his skull," as one report had it. The New York Times said in 1897:

It is a fine thing that a man astride two wheels can, in a six-day race, distance a hound, horse, or a locomotive. It confirms the assumption, no longer much contested, that the human animal is superior to the other animals. But this undisputed thing is being said in too solemn and painful way at Madison Square Garden. An athletic contest in which participants 'go queer' in their heads, and strain their powers until their faces become hideous with the tortures that rack them, is not sport. It is brutality. Days and weeks of recuperation will be needed to put the Garden racers in condition, and it is likely that some of them will never recover from the strain.[3]

[edit] Two-man team events
Racing at Dortmund in 2007

Six-day racing remained popular in the USA, even though the states of New York and Illinois led in 1898 in limiting races to 12 of 24 hours.[4] The intention was to allow riders to rest half the day, but promoters realised that teams of two, with only one rider on the track at a time, would give each the 12 hours' rest the law intended while making the race still last 24 hours.[5] Races lasted six days rather than a week to avoid racing on Sunday.[4] Speeds rose, distances grew, crowds increased, money poured in. Where Charlie Miller rode 2,088 miles alone, Alf Goullet and a decent partner could ride 2,790. The first such race was at Madison Square Garden and two-man tag racing has become known in English as a madison and to the French as l'américaine.

In the main 'chase' or madison sessions, both riders may be on the track at the same time, taking it in turns to race, hand-slinging each other back into action. The non-racing rider will circle the track slowly at the top of the banking until 'slung' back into the race. The hand-sling is an advanced skill that, in some countries, is only allowed for professional riders. The racing rider may also propel a team-mate into the race by pushing the seat of the rider's racing shorts.

The historian Raymond Dickow said of riders in the post-1898 races:

The highest paid was Alfred Goullet of Australia. He earned $1,000 a day in addition to cash prizes won during sprints. Top riders like Bobby Walthour, US; Franco Giorgetti, Italy; Gérard Debaets, Belgium; and Alfred Letourneur, France, were making from $500 to $750 a day. Amateurs who had just turned pro, and still had to prove their worth, were paid the beginners' rate of $100 a day.[5]

Bing Crosby

Sixes attracted enthusiasts and celebrities. Knute Rockne, George Raft, Barbara Stanwyck and Otto Kruger were fans. Kruger used to invite riders home.[5] Bing Crosby - whose presence at a track guaranteed he would be met by song-publishers' touts offering him music - was said to pay the hospital bills of riders who fell.[6][7] The actress Peggy Joyce - her wealth was such that Cole Porter wrote a lyric that said My string of Rolls-Royces, is longer than Peggy Joyce's - gave regular $200 bonus prizes, or primes. She was so delighted when a band in the track centre played Pretty Peggy with eyes of Blue that she put up $1,000.[7]

Racing was at its hardest when the stands were full. Riders took it easy when they were empty and circled the track reading newspapers, talking, even writing letters as they pedalled with one foot, the other steering the handlebars. But sometimes a team would attack when things were quiet. Jimmy Walthour remembered one such night in 1933:
“ [At 4am], Tino Reboli and his partner were 12 laps behind the leaders. In desperation, they decided that no one would sleep that night. They knew that they had to close the gap up to stay in the race. One shift of riders had gone to the dormitory in another part of the building. Reboli and his partner, however, remained on the track. The team made its bid and gained three laps before trainers of the other teams could shake the sleeping cyclists out of bed. The jam[8] turned into one of the wildest ever experienced in the history of the Garden. It necessitated turning on the huge lights over the track, costing the Garden thousands of dollars in lighting.[5] ”
“ The only spectators were a handful of puzzled floor sweepers, garbage collectors and sleepy reporters. At first the riders were mad at Reboli and his partner for starting the ruckus. They pedalled furiously to grind them down. But in frustration and irritation over loss of sleep, the riders became angry at one another... As for Reboli and his partner, the session of jamming set them 12 laps behind again. The referee withdrew them from the race.[5] ”

Six-day racing was popular in the United States until the second world war. Then the rise of the automobile and the Great Depression brought a decline. Dickow said: "Attempts were made to revive the sport by several different promoters but none of them managed to restore bike racing to its former popularity."[5] A further problem was that the more promoters brought in European opposition to spice up races for a potential crowd, the more the Europeans dominated and lessened the appeal for spectators. Jerry Rodman, one of the American riders, said: "In previous years, six-day bicycle racing faded only as a result of war or depression. Under the promotion of Harry Mendel, however, the sport, for the first time began to decline due to lack of spectator interest."[5]
“ Jimmy Walthour said: "Six-day races began to fade in 1938. It was about that time when the skater Sonja Henie was given preference to appearance dates in Madison Square Garden. December was a traditional Garden date for the races but her show replaced the races for that month."[5] ”

Annual sixes in Boston finished in 1933, Detroit in 1936, and Chicago in 1948. New York hung on until 1950. There were revivals but none succeeded. Sporting Cyclist published a picture of the last night of the Chicago six in 1957 being ridden with seven people in the quarter of the stands that the camera caught.


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## lnin0 (Apr 8, 2002)

Same reason American's cannot understand "soccer". To them it is boring because the scores or so low although if you started giving out 7 pts for every goal the scores wouldn't be that far removed from American football. So scoring being closer to equal you have to ask yourself which game never stops and which one stops every 15 seconds for about three times that. 

Same reason Americans can watch NASCAR but not F1. To enjoy F1 you have to appreciate the skill it takes to drive those cars and understand just because there isn't passing at every turn doesn't mean it isn't a good race. Americans don't really appreciate anything, they just want instant gratification and that is why NASCAR is more popular than any other form of racing, because it provides that instant gratification no matter how shallow.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

Most people I know have no idea what I'm saying when I tell them I almost came to grief on a piece of road furniture, much less follow the strategy of a race...


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## supermatt9 (Jun 7, 2009)

lnin0 said:



> Americans don't really appreciate anything, they just want instant gratification


I'm an American and I would appreciate you not making ridiculous and idiotic generalizations.


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## old_fuji (Mar 16, 2009)

supermatt9 said:


> I'm an American and I would appreciate you not making ridiculous and idiotic generalizations.


ditto


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## eddyadams (Aug 11, 2007)

Ummm... When did lance "give up"? i think he is in second place and has a real chance at the podium.


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

Have you seeen ESPN mention it? Hilarious... Who knew Contador was actually pronounced "Can'tador" and that the riders descend at a measely 35mph!


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