# "Don't overlap wheels"---What does this mean?



## Lawfarm (Jun 4, 2010)

I've seen several posters on here give newb riders the advice of "don't overlap wheels" when riding in a group. WTF does this mean? Don't overlap in what direction (laterally?) What is the preferred position for close group riding? Directly behind another rider (tires in line) or slightly staggered? What am I not supposed to overlap? Thanks!:mad2:


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

It means exactly what it means. Don't put your front wheel in a postion so that it is in front of the trailing edge of the rear wheel of the rider in front of you. If he swerves, you go down.


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## OHroadie (Jul 12, 2010)

I think it means to not ride along side, or creep your front wheel next to (left or right side) the rear wheel of the person in front of you. It's a lesson I am getting a little grief from myself.


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## CdaleNut (Aug 2, 2009)

dont do that.


https://coachlevi.com/cycling/rules-riding-paceline-group/

heres a good article. hope this helps you.............especially rule # 3


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## alexp247365 (Dec 29, 2009)

If you are riding behind and to the left of the rider in front of you, but the front of your wheel 'overlaps' his wheel - i.e. the front most part of your wheel is around the skewer of the rider in front of you. What will happen if the rider in front of you has to swerve left suddenly?


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## manymiles (May 26, 2010)

By default the person in back will go down, there are ways to recover but it takes skill and luck. You are better served paying attention to the gap.


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## ColoRoadie (Aug 5, 2010)

alexp247365 said:


> If you are riding behind and to the left of the rider in front of you, but the front of your wheel 'overlaps' his wheel - i.e. the front most part of your wheel is around the skewer of the rider in front of you. What will happen if the rider in front of you has to swerve left suddenly?


Oh, I've got this one. You are supposed to lunge forward and attempt to get a grip on his shoulders ....so he can hold you both up while he brings you to a safe and controlled stop. Piece of cake. 

:thumbsup:


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

Riding right alongside a person's backwheel with your front wheel overlapping closely is definitely dangerous, but on the flip side while riding *behind* someone's rear wheel with a gap I think it might be a good idea to ride a little to the left or right instead of *directly* behind, so you're already in a position to maneuver around the person infront of you in case you need to. Just pay attention and never overlap, and if you do for a second to avoid collision, get out of that position asap and get back behind.


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## Hooben (Aug 22, 2004)

Yes, the correct position is in a straight line, not overlapping wheels.
Here's this video of Levi touching the back of Lance's wheel. 
Seeing is believing.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

All good advice here. But it should be kept in mind that within a group of _expert_ riders, overlapping wheels is done all the time when slowly moving up or back. It's also an absolute must in a special group formation ("echelon") staggered in such a way as to defeat a strong side- or quartering wind. Not recommending overlapping here, just saying that "never overlap" is too much of an absolute. There will be overlapping, and lots of it, in an expert pack. If there's a crash in the pro pack, the guilty party is generally considered the rider making an abrupt lateral move, not the rider overlapping a wheel.


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## litespeedchick (Sep 9, 2003)

Wow, great video and perfect lesson. See how Lance is behind and to the left of Horner's wheel, but never over laps it. But...you see Levi with his wheel overlapping Lance's for a few seconds. Lance barely moves left just a fraction...and that's all it takes. Notice how he rolls up to overlap Horner (or whoever that is) while he's looking back...Lance is in danger right there for a few seconds.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

litespeedchick said:


> Notice how he rolls up to overlap Horner (or whoever that is) while he's looking back...Lance is in danger right there for a few seconds.


It's also a perfect example of how there's almost no way you aren't going to overlap wheels if you ride in a group. If you are riding close and the guy in front of you slows slightly, you don't hit the brakes to avoid hitting his wheel. No, you move slightly left or right and bleed off some speed, then slip in behind him again. That means you will overlap his wheel, and you are in the "danger zone." The alternative is running into his wheel, which is a far bigger problem.

So the rule is not really "Don't overlap wheels." That's going to happen, and could happen more than you might like. The real rule is "Don't get caught overlapping wheels." In other words, minimize it.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

mohair_chair said:


> If you are riding close and the guy in front of you slows slightly, you don't hit the brakes to avoid hitting his wheel.


Precisely right: you overlap wheels for a few seconds. This is when the "never overlap" mantra has gotten people in trouble by causing them to grab the brakes rather than overlap for a moment.


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

I've known the dangers of overlapping, but do it all the time on group rides so I'm not abruptly braking and causing the person behind me to crash. Like mentioned above, it's only very briefly. Funny thing is some people in front get scared, thinking they're in danger of falling vs. me.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

What a wanker.....
7 out of 10 times, I can do that, and get away with it. You just have to steer into it, instead of doing the "natural thing" and trying to steer away from the wheel. (that's how you go down, for sure)

(just did it, last weekend)

If someone "chops" your front wheel, in a violent move, it's almost impossible to hold it.


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

Only overlap when you're well off to the side. Sometimes it's unavoidable but try to minimize the risks on group rides. Saving a few extra watts and effort by being really close isn't worth the risk of messing up yourself, your bike, other people, and other people's bikes!


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## ETWN Stu (Feb 15, 2007)

By not half wheeling (what we call it) esp in group rides, you are riding to the weakest guys level and the group stays tidy behind...helps get rid of the whip effect when avoiding a hazard on the road and is easier for traffic to manage a safer overtake.

Also all the above things too
Dont half wheel!


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> What a wanker.....
> 7 out of 10 times, I can do that, and get away with it..


Tell us about the other 3 times...


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

When planned, overlapping wheels - even touching - is fine. Hell, on the mtbs, I can overlap, turn in hard and almost stop the bike in front of me (just playing around on the trail). But, when it happens unexpectedly, it really is amazing how fast it'll put ya down. It's like that old gag where someone gets on all fours behind ya, a third person just barely pushes and boom, you're on your ass before you can even think.


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## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

tarwheel2 said:


> Tell us about the other 3 times...


He can't remember.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Not half-wheeling*



ETWN Stu said:


> By not half wheeling (what we call it) esp in group rides, you are riding to the weakest guys level and the group stays tidy behind...helps get rid of the whip effect when avoiding a hazard on the road and is easier for traffic to manage a safer overtake.
> 
> Also all the above things too
> Dont half wheel!


The standard definition of half wheeling is when you are riding side by side with someone, but rather than them staying even with you (matching your pace) they are always a bit ahead (a half-wheel ahead) and so pushing the pace.

You guys may call it half-wheeling, but going back at least 40 years, your definition is not common usage, and when you say half wheeling, most people will think about that jerk who just kept pushing the pace rather than matching speed.


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## ETWN Stu (Feb 15, 2007)

Kerry Irons said:


> The standard definition of half wheeling is when you are riding side by side with someone, but rather than them staying even with you (matching your pace) they are always a bit ahead (a half-wheel ahead) and so pushing the pace.
> 
> You guys may call it half-wheeling, but going back at least 40 years, your definition is not common usage, and when you say half wheeling, most people will think about that jerk who just kept pushing the pace rather than matching speed.


Yeah no matter where it starts in the pack the it always effects riders behind them...Understand the jerk lable too...it about sums em up!


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## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

Kerry Irons said:


> The standard definition of half wheeling is when you are riding side by side with someone, but rather than them staying even with you (matching your pace) they are always a bit ahead (a half-wheel ahead) and so pushing the pace.
> 
> You guys may call it half-wheeling, but going back at least 40 years, your definition is not common usage, and when you say half wheeling, most people will think about that jerk who just kept pushing the pace rather than matching speed.


+1

...and just to confuse things: if you're racing at the track, don't UNDERLAP wheels. OVERlapping wheels is OK cause you can almost always go up track. Underlapping wheels = problem if the dood in front of you dives for the line and yer not paying attention.

Now back to your regularly scheduled paceline training session

M


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Mel Erickson said:


> He can't remember.


I can remember. I believe that they were in Crits, in the middle of a turn. 
When you're leaning, it's almost impossible to "save it" when someone comes down on your wheel.


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## mmm beer (Sep 8, 2010)

*"what does it mean"? A visual explanation:*

It means don't do this...


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

mmm beer said:


> It means don't do this...


and that was not a R-SYS !


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

That video made me laugh. Sorry if you know the guy - or it's you. And I do hope he's not hurt. But what the hell - it's like he had the lead roll in "Why You Don't Ride in a Group on Aero Bars." A Cycling Safety Series.

Note the time that elapses between realizing he needs to slow down and his hands moving from the aero bar to the brakes. Had he had his hands where they should be, he'd have been fine.


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## Love Commander (Aug 20, 2009)

Lawfarm said:


> What am I not supposed to overlap?


Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

OldZaskar said:


> That video made me laugh. Sorry if you know the guy - or it's you. And I do hope he's not hurt. But what the hell - it's like he had the lead roll in "Why You Don't Ride in a Group on Aero Bars." A Cycling Safety Series.
> 
> Note the time that elapses between realizing he needs to slow down and his hands moving from the aero bar to the brakes. Had he had his hands where they should be, he'd have been fine.


It was pretty funny, as was your "lead roll" comment.


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

wipeout said:


> It was pretty funny, as was your "lead roll" comment.


We all have our role


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

^^ Overlapping someone's wheel while drafting at 34mph on aero bars :mad2:


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## J24 (Oct 8, 2003)

OldZaskar said:


> That video made me laugh..............................Had he had his hands where they should be, he'd have been fine.


That too, but looks like busting 8 out 16 spokes put him down so not a good ad for low spoke count rims, kinda makes me like my sets of 32H Open Pros and Ambrosio Excellences even more


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## mmm beer (Sep 8, 2010)

OldZaskar said:


> That video made me laugh. Sorry if you know the guy - or it's you. And I do hope he's not hurt. But what the hell - it's like he had the lead roll in "Why You Don't Ride in a Group on Aero Bars." A Cycling Safety Series.
> 
> Note the time that elapses between realizing he needs to slow down and his hands moving from the aero bar to the brakes. Had he had his hands where they should be, he'd have been fine.


Thanks for the concern, I was videoing and the rider got off with a scratch on his hand and a couple of bruises!


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## Ghost234 (Jun 1, 2010)

mohair_chair said:


> It's also a perfect example of how there's almost no way you aren't going to overlap wheels if you ride in a group. If you are riding close and the guy in front of you slows slightly, you don't hit the brakes to avoid hitting his wheel. No, you move slightly left or right and bleed off some speed, then slip in behind him again. That means you will overlap his wheel, and you are in the "danger zone." The alternative is running into his wheel, which is a far bigger problem.
> 
> So the rule is not really "Don't overlap wheels." That's going to happen, and could happen more than you might like. The real rule is "Don't get caught overlapping wheels." In other words, minimize it.



You are allowed to brake to avoid the wheel of the rider in front of you. Just don't grab them hard, and only use the rear brake to avoid fishtailing. But its much better form to move to the left or right, or push your body up to catch some air. 


In other words: protect your front wheel. If it gets hit your going down. If someone hits your rear wheel, you will likely escape unhindered.


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