# fulcrum 5 and Scirocco



## albundy (May 13, 2007)

The new Fulcrum 5 Evolutions and the older Campy Scirocco G3s. Would these two wheelsets be at par with each other? I'm trying to compare as they're both available at my lbs. Although, the Sciroccos are used but hardly, and they're just a tad bit cheaper than the 5s. Anybody know specifically where they stand with regard to each other in the Campy line of wheelsets?


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## guth_c (Dec 3, 2007)

I don't know about the Sciroccos but I have Fulcrum 5 Evolutions and they're fast, sturdy and light. But then again, my previous wheelset was Shimano R550's.


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## RoyIII (Feb 24, 2007)

How much does each weigh? Cost? That's probably indexes of where they are in the food chain.


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

I think they are both about the same give or take 50g so go with the cheaper set if that's your guide.


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## albundy (May 13, 2007)

Hmmm.... I'll have to check on the specs. I had a feeling that they might possibly be the same level. Any others out there with a bit more info they can share?


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

that was my take on it.... they're pretty much the same thing with a diff spoke number and pattern in the rear... IMO if you are a little worried that with your riding style/weight, that you could be a little 'heavy' on them, i'ld pull the trigger on the Sciroccos... 3 extra on the rear can't be a bad thing.. and IMO they look better... and say 'campagnolo'..


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## albundy (May 13, 2007)

I did at sort of not so scientific test with my current wheels and my friend's fulcrum 5s. We rolled down a hill at the same speed and free wheeled all the way. I'm lighter than him and my bike lighter than his. But on the wheel side alone, we both have bladed spokes and I guess medium profile rims. I know there are a lot of other factors like our tires rolling resistance and so much more, so I take the test with a grain of salt. Anyway, we seemed to be going at exactly the same speed the whole way. I'm thinking, with this semi test of ours I might not get much of an upgrade if I get the sciroccos, being as they are roughly the same as the Fulcrum 5s. Hence, I'm holding off on pulling the trigger for now. Gotta see if there'll really be an advantage besides bling. Although bling sometimes is enough. Hehe


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

hang on, by older sciroccos, do u mean the 30mm deeper V thingo with the G3 front wheel in all black w/ the plasticish HPW hubs? cos thats a little different to the current set ups with a 20spoke radial front and alloy hubs... the current ones are pretty similar as i said to the f5s... older ones should be more aero, but they were heavy.. as in a real weight around 1.9kg... now the older Zondas, second hand vs new f5s would be a different proposition. Assuming they're in good nick, i'd swipe the Zs before the LBS could say "savings or credit"... IMHO the pre 06 Zs were the bomb.


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## albundy (May 13, 2007)

yeah, the older sciroccos. They belong to the owner of the lbs, so he basically ends up selling everything he owns. His stuff pretty much gets used for trial rides outside the store or just for display in the store.


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## RoyIII (Feb 24, 2007)

Oh, I'd get the fulcrums, no question about it.


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## ti-triodes (Aug 14, 2006)

Fulcrums vs. the older Sciroccos? No question Fulcrum.

Newer Scirocco? Campy, baby!!!!


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

agreed. current fulcrum is nicer... besides, i dunno how he can justify the price. the older scirocco is at least 3 yrs old now... yuck. look at the current pricing new for new, the sciroocos occupy a similar price point as the f5s... IMHO i also don't like the older scirocco front wheel design, resembles the current khamsin... and like i said, heavy...


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## albundy (May 13, 2007)

Ah.... thanks for the comments guys. Saw a really nice pair of Neutrons yesterday.... Oh how I wish.............. Oh well..... Gotta start putting more into the piggy bank. Hehehe.


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

Old Scirocco = 1830
New Scirocco = 1725
Fulcrum 5 = 1850
Fulcrum 5 evo = 1760
Neutron = 1550
Neutron Ultra =1460


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

advertised is nice... actual would be better !


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## Vanilla Gorilla (Mar 22, 2004)

albundy said:


> I did at sort of not so scientific test with my current wheels and my friend's fulcrum 5s. We rolled down a hill at the same speed and free wheeled all the way. I'm lighter than him and my bike lighter than his. But on the wheel side alone, we both have bladed spokes and I guess medium profile rims. I know there are a lot of other factors like our tires rolling resistance and so much more, so I take the test with a grain of salt. Anyway, we seemed to be going at exactly the same speed the whole way. I'm thinking, with this semi test of ours I might not get much of an upgrade if I get the sciroccos, being as they are roughly the same as the Fulcrum 5s. Hence, I'm holding off on pulling the trigger for now. Gotta see if there'll really be an advantage besides bling. Although bling sometimes is enough. Hehe



That test means absolutely nothing.


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## Vanilla Gorilla (Mar 22, 2004)

toonraid said:


> Old Scirocco = 1830
> New Scirocco = 1725
> Fulcrum 5 = 1850
> Fulcrum 5 evo = 1760
> ...




THe Scirocco's and 5's are sturdy semi-heavy training/rolling around wheels. They are too heavy to race on. They are however really nice training wheels, and they are tuff and sturdy and harsh riding. If you want really really nice riding wheels get the neutrons. They kick ass. You can race and ride 100miles on them and be happy.:thumbsup:


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

hrmm, assuming that 200g would make a difference at all in crits and road races, do you know what the neutron *actually* weighs??... campy may claim 1550g but if the eurus and zondas are anything to go by, they are out by around 50g....

honestly, again, assuming weight means anything, 1.6kg for neutrons for that profile and that spoke count is not light.... u can build a nio22 wheelset w/ 32h record rear hub and a 24h cx-ray front on a WI hub for around 1375g and prolly less money...

that, and the OP never mentioned anything other than training/rolling around on... nothing about racing... OP did ask if there was an advantage other than bling, and as much as i am a campy fan, i have to say no.... and outta the list the neutrons, while they get rave reviews, make perhaps the least persausive argument in the campy fold IMHO... they don't offer a whole lot over simple custom builds - that, and you can hardly see the campy logos on that low profile !!


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## Vanilla Gorilla (Mar 22, 2004)

Ok, I have the 2002 Zondas, Neutrons, Nucleons ( I race cross on these), had 2004 eurus, and have the Fulcrum Racing 7's.
The Sciroccos and Zondas have the same rims but different hubs and spokes. The Zondas are the harshest stiffest wheels I've ever used. The Eurus were the same rim only made lighter by machining. The Fulcrum 7,5 and campy Khamsin share the same heavy over built rim. They are inexpensive and great for riding around on. They are bomb proof.
The Neutrons are special because of the rear ocr rim, and hpw hubs and the pretty styling. Sure you can build lighter customs, but we are talking Campy wheels. Neutrons have a great springy snap. They are smooth, roll fast and climb well. Plus Magnuss won Paris Roubaix on them. They are Tough!!
I just got some Ksyrium es hoops and they are a little faster to climb with .They are stiffer, but not as smooth or nice riding as the Neutrons. For the money they are very nice attractive wheels. Just my $.02


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

fair deal ! i don't wanna be seen knocking a campy product !  have u tried the dt1450? pretty damn convincing product in the factory built low profile/ low weight alu category IMO....

i guess it comes down to taste, b/c as i said above, i loved the old Zs...


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## Vanilla Gorilla (Mar 22, 2004)

wankski said:


> fair deal ! i don't wanna be seen knocking a campy product !  have u tried the dt1450? pretty damn convincing product in the factory built low profile/ low weight alu category IMO....
> 
> i guess it comes down to taste, b/c as i said above, i loved the old Zs...




By z's you mean Zondas? What year? I liked my Zondas but didn't love them the way I love the Neutrons. I forgot I have the old silver Shamals...Talk about stiff and fast and sweet! And harsh riding.. 
I'd love to try the DT Mon Chaseral, but I only have so much money! I also had a set of open pro's with record hubs and they were great for spinning around on. Better than the zondas. 
Dude what do they want for the Sciroccos? You'd be better off with some open pro's with record hubs.. http://www.coloradocyclist.com/product/display/25340/
http://www.performancebike.com/shop/Profile.cfm?SKU=18879&item=50-2661&slitrk=search&slisearch=true


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

yep, i mean the pre 06 Zondas... i liked them... like i said, must be an individual taste thing.... but cast your mind back to say 2004... nio rims in 27 and 30s were not prevalent like they are today, nor many of the new aero carbon rims floating around for 'reasonable' money... The Zondas therefore offered something, claimed weight around 1.7kg, 30mm aero design (bout as aero as it gets for alu), decent loose-ball hubs, and a low spoke count with the 2:1 g3 rear... it filled a gap that is still missing in today's campy line up, altho, even if they were to fill it, there are now custom alternatives.... That said, the modern DT RR1850s are heavier by at least 100gms so, the Zondas have aged well !

todays zondas aren't so aero, and at a real weight of 1650g offer no real advantage other than decent hubs and rim quality... I'm a bit pissed w/ campy's strategy, as IMHO there is today far too much duplication, and far too many gaps in the lineup....aside from aesthetics, campy is slipping behind in the wheel game... we'll see if there is any improvemnt in the 09 lineup...


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

wankski said:


> ... there is today far too much duplication, and far too many gaps in the lineup....aside from aesthetics, campy is slipping behind in the wheel game... we'll see if there is any improvemnt in the 09 lineup...


And are you comparing them with hand built wheels & wheelbuilders such as Mavic & DT Swiss or other total range producers such as Shimano, FSA, Specialized etc.

In my opinion their line-up (and i am including fulcrum too) is 2nd to none with a bomb proof Khamsin right up to Hyperon Ultra Clinchers which is a much wider net than specialized wheel manufacturers such as Maviv & Zipp! Sure you can go down the hand built wheels road but that's a much smaller market and quality is not uniform as very dependant on who builds them.


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

perhaps, but also consider that now campy users are outgunned 2:1 by shimano and now SRAM.... they must have a wide range since campy users are more limited by their choices, also considering the second hand market...

lets not discuss mavic.. don't like em at all... (at least in factory-built alu)... but i don't get the duplication in the campy line up... zondas, eurus and shamals are the same thing, as are ventos and khamins... really why do we need this? are they really saying the cost difference b/w 2.0mm spokes and sapim lazers is what seperates ventos from khamsins? 

just sayin' perhaps they should return ventos to the top of the line... or at least offer something else... such as 30mm profile again....loose ball hubs etc and keep the cheaper sealed catridge hubs to the scirocco and khamsin... to be bundled OEM w/ bikes and such...

likewise you could use the eurus name to make a competitor to the EC70 sl for example... decent 38mm profile, clincher, alu tracks that offers something different to shamal and bridges the gap b/w the lightweight 50mm 'most aero' bora and the low profile alu rims...

i'm just wishing away for something in 30 or 32mm alu, and an alu/carb clincher... just dreamin' i spose... while i'm at it, get rid of everything below veloce hubs (no difference in spec or price really as it stands!), offer centaur a bit lighter and not just diff skewers and offer those in 32 and 36.... then record... 20,24,28,32 front, and rear 24,28,32.... choice of classic silver and anodized black.. just wishing for a more streamlined line-up with more differentiation, more value added for the $$... this way there is a reason why campy users will tend towards campy wheels... most here combine campy chorus/record w/ mavic products... campy can't just push its wheels and bone us with the hubs because as you note, there are a lot of products out there re: wheels... if we don't like the confines of the campy line up, many will just go to another brand of wheel, so campy loses out on a sale... give us the hub option! not quite as low spoke, and not quite as bling - it serves a different market....
also if campy presists with this, now that there is SRAM, it could see a lot of record users seeing red in the future... in that case, campy will sell fewer of its top wheels (a good reason to expand into the fulcrum brand IMO... that was a good move by campy...)

just my 2... sorry for the words/rant...


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

I like the way you think but I think it is important to not that Campy being smaller than its competitors due to its absence from the MTB market it has to be a little more carefull with its overheads and can't afford to keep low selling products onboard. Let's adknowledge that it has a much better wheel line up than Shimano (and groupset) in terms of range and durability then lets look at the market - it is obvious that the general trend in the 30+ profile is towards Carbon, in which case it would be crazy for them to make an Alu rim, if anything I think they should do a 38 mm version of Bora's. Of course there is probably a niche in the market for a 30mm alu rim for people like you but I don't think they will sell many units. Having said that there is a danger that finance directors chop of too many items fom the range and we end up with a very clinical range which is not what Campagnolo is all about .... 

As for the hubs, I'm with you they seem to be phasing out the hubs - 1st they lost 28mm and by the look of it the 36 mm hubs are out too for 09. I would like to see 28 and 24 mm hubs if not 20s.

I don't agree with the wheel range being weak - weight, spec, durability and price are all competitive against other brands if you compare the entire range. If you go down that road then you will have to chop off Veloce, Zenon, Chorus groupsets and drop the release of 11 speeds gruppos and super record too and just have Mirage, Centaur & Record as in 105, Ultegra & Da or Rival, Force, Red .... wouldn't it be anal if all manufacturers had the same line up, i.e. 3 10 speed groupsets!

What I am trying to say is you need to have a sense of balance between passion and reason but I know where you are coming from and I think you'll agree that campy have been quite flexible with their line up in comparison to competitors but perhaps not against the best component in industry


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

true... campy wheels rock, and they are better IMO to mavic and shimano.... i was more comparing campy to themselves... as they realised, with their pre 06 hubs, campy are their own best competition... 

i would not touch their gruppos as that is their identity (but now that u mention it, i've never seen a xenon gruppo in the flesh here? maybe they sell in europe OEM on bikes?)

back to the wheels, its been 3 yrs now since the current crop came out, i'm just wishing for a few changes.... now that i think about it you're totally right re:30mm alu - campy will only want to sell carbon for its aero range... that said a 38 could be the go... clincher only, and with alu tracks to make it unattractive compared to the premium light weight bora, but desirable for those that wanna ride on everyday carbon... imagine some eurus with a 38mm carb profile... it would nicley fit between hyperon and bora... and keep with campys premium market positioning...

i dunno about you, but i'm seeing a lot of defectors to SRAM red....most of those would be weighing up their purchase with record, not dura ace...


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

Well they have made a lot of innovations and upgrades to their wheelsets for 09 such as 2 way fit which allows installation of tubs or clinchers on same wheel which is available for both Eurus and Shamal Ultra's as well as Ceramic ball bearing and new graphics for Hyperon ultra, Bora ultra and Ghibli and there is a new Vento too!

As for defectors to Sram red i have 3 words for them .... SUPER . 11 . RECORD


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

new vento huh? awesome ! i'm glad i haven't replaced my battle-damaged ones yet... as u can tell, not happy with the other offerings in the segment that would be clearly superior for the coin.... yet....


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