# Muscular Marcotte Wins US Pro



## matabala (Aug 10, 2004)

That's a VERY impressive physique for a normally lean and mean endurance cyclist. Must be the cool, clear Michigan water...


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Is he a chiropractor? I looked him up on the team website as I'd never heard of him. Sucks that T.Phinney crashed.

Just a heads up, don't put spoilers in the title of the thread (see the sticky thread at the top of Pro Cycling). Probably not a big deal in this case unless it's shown on TV and people record it to watch later, but when it comes to the other Pro races, please get pissed for obvious reasons.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

From the picture on Cycling news ... One of these things doesn't look like the other(s), one of these things just isn't the same!!!

Something tells me this should end up in another forum on this website, I guess we will have to wait and see :idea:


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

Man, that's a big bugger. He even has those whatchoomacallit neck muscles.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Awesome. While the National champion jerseys are flying in Europe, ours will be rocking the crit scene in the USA and beating weekend warriors.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Chunky 34 year old relative unknown wins climbing intensive national championship over a field stocked with world tour pros? 

Nothing suspicious there. 

View attachment 295993


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Fireform said:


> Chunky 34 year old relative unknown wins climbing intensive national championship over a field stocked with world tour pros?
> 
> Nothing suspicious there.
> 
> View attachment 295993


I know him personally and have never met another human being so devoted to clean living in my life.


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## PaxRomana (Jan 16, 2012)

spookyload said:


> Awesome. While the National champion jerseys are flying in Europe, ours will be rocking the crit scene in the USA and beating weekend warriors.


Would you have been happier if Danielson had won it?


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

woodys737 said:


> I know him personally and have never met another human being so devoted to clean living in my life.


That's good to hear! I hope he's as clean as the driven snow.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Fireform said:


> Chunky 34 year old relative unknown wins climbing intensive national championship over a field stocked with world tour pros?
> 
> Nothing suspicious there.


I wish I was that chunky.


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## PaxRomana (Jan 16, 2012)

Fireform said:


> Chunky 34 year old relative unknown wins climbing intensive national championship over a field stocked with world tour pros?
> 
> Nothing suspicious there.
> 
> View attachment 295993


Climbing intensive? 4 times over Lookout "mountain", with less than 1000 feet elevation gained per lap? Hilarious.

Where do you live, Nebraska?

This was a course built for breakaway artists and rouleurs, not climbers, which made it well-suited for Marcotte.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

PaxRomana said:


> Would you have been happier if Danielson had won it?


Yes. I would love to see the Stars and Stripes in European races.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

PaxRomana said:


> Climbing intensive? 4 times over Lookout "mountain", with less than 1000 feet elevation gained per lap? Hilarious.
> 
> Where do you live, Nebraska?
> 
> This was a course built for breakaway artists and rouleurs, not climbers, which made it well-suited for Marcotte.


Yep+1... And it's not like he wasn't turning heads when riding for Pista Palace and Elbows as well. Even years before but, no one would have noticed here I suspect. Not being mean (or obtuse to those who doubt) just that unless I didn't know him and ride with him from time to time I wouldn't have known about him either.


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## PaxRomana (Jan 16, 2012)

spookyload said:


> Yes. I would love to see the Stars and Stripes in European races.


Really? You'd be happier with a drug cheat like Danielson wearing the national colors? 

The US champs in cyclocross hardly ever race in Europe either. Moreover, nothing stops the WT American riders from competing in the US Championships and nothing stopped them from winning today except better riding and better tactics from their opponents.

But maybe you can petition Steve Johnson to only allow WT riders to compete and see how far that gets you.

This was great cycling. Shame that some people just can't enjoy it for what it was.


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## matabala (Aug 10, 2004)

woodys737 said:


> Yep+1... And it's not like he wasn't turning heads when riding for Pista Palace and Elbows as well. Even years before but, no one would have noticed here I suspect. Not being mean (or obtuse to those who doubt) just that unless I didn't know him and ride with him from time to time I wouldn't have known about him either.


Why has he been languishing in the minor leagues all these years if he has the talent to beat proven WT riders on a demanding course for a National title? Why hasn't he been battling the Greipels, Sagans and Cavendishs of the cycling world? Where are his previous victories on similar courses? What other current successful professional road racers carry that kind of bulging muscle mass to victory? I forgot, must be good, wholesome living and providential genetics.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

PaxRomana said:


> Really? You'd be happier with a drug cheat like Danielson wearing the national colors?
> 
> The US champs in cyclocross hardly ever race in Europe either. Moreover, nothing stops the WT American riders from competing in the US Championships and nothing stopped them from winning today except better riding and better tactics from their opponents.
> 
> ...


You forgot American Continental squads that have five to six riders riding against WT riders with maybe one team mate. Very American view point to completely discount the value of a strong team in Pro cycling. 

I am sure Jonathan Page and Katie Compton would be disappointed to know the blood and sweat they leave on the Super Prestige Cross and World Cup circuit isn't recognized at home too. Get a clue dude. Katie Compton hardly races in the US, same with Page.

So only WT riders are the druggies? Ask Tom Zirbel (minus his get out of suspension free card for ratting out others) about that. Maybe run that by Phil Zijeck as well.


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

spookyload said:


> You forgot American Continental squads that have five to six riders riding against WT riders with maybe one team mate. Very American view point to completely discount the value of a strong team in Pro cycling.
> 
> I am sure Jonathan Page and Katie Compton would be disappointed to know the blood and sweat they leave on the Super Prestige Cross and World Cup circuit isn't recognized at home too. Get a clue dude. Katie Compton hardly races in the US, same with Page.
> 
> So only WT riders are the druggies? Ask Tom Zirbel (minus his get out of suspension free card for ratting out others) about that. Maybe run that by Phil Zijeck as well.


I agree with your sentiment, but that Smartstop team has been kicking tail on the domestic side this year. And they deserve credit. Once I saw that they had the numbers in the finale, I had little doubt that they would win.

It wasn't even like they wasn't a strong PT presence, the only major US riders that we're missing as far as I could tell were Talansky and Van Garderen.


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## PaxRomana (Jan 16, 2012)

spookyload said:


> You forgot American Continental squads that have five to six riders riding against WT riders with maybe one team mate. Very American view point to completely discount the value of a strong team in Pro cycling.
> 
> I am sure Jonathan Page and Katie Compton would be disappointed to know the blood and sweat they leave on the Super Prestige Cross and World Cup circuit isn't recognized at home too. Get a clue dude. Katie Compton hardly races in the US, same with Page.
> 
> So only WT riders are the druggies? Ask Tom Zirbel (minus his get out of suspension free card for ratting out others) about that. Maybe run that by Phil Zijeck as well.


You may be the one who needs a clue. Page was the only one who raced in Europe on a regular basis. Compton races the World Cups in Europe and not much else. She'll race a Superprestige occasionally, but it's the WCs that she targets. 

I didn't say only WT guys are druggies, just commented on your rather ludicrous wish that a cheat like Danielson represent the US on the world stage. 

Garmin seemed to have quite a few guys yesterday and the best they managed was 3rd. Quit whining.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

matabala said:


> Why has he been languishing in the minor leagues all these years if he has the talent to beat proven WT riders on a demanding course for a National title? Why hasn't he been battling the Greipels, Sagans and Cavendishs of the cycling world? Where are his previous victories on similar courses? What other current successful professional road racers carry that kind of bulging muscle mass to victory? I forgot, must be good, wholesome living and providential genetics.


Because in cycling, everyone has a chance. Otherwise there would never be wins by domestiques.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

spookyload said:


> Yes. I would love to see the Stars and Stripes in European races.



So you would rather a know doper (un repentant as well) who is a a whinging baby wear the jersey rather than a guy that raced smart and hard.

The jersey is worn by the person that won that race - a really hard and very intense race I might. Smart stop did a great job racing smart and putting three guys in the final selection, Garmin raced with it head up its ass.

Happy to see the jersey on the back of the person that won it regardless of where they race.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I'm amazed it was own by a guy who has a day job!


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## JackDaniels (Oct 4, 2011)

Sad this goes here.


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## PMC (Jan 29, 2004)

woodys737 said:


> I know him personally and have never met another human being so devoted to clean living in my life.


I had the ocassion to chat with Eric when he was racing for Grand Performance back in his Minnesota days and was still attending Northwestern Health Sciences University aka Northwestern Chiropractic and 100% agree with your statement. He had all kinds of uber healthy food things I found strange but a really solid down to earth guy.

Kudos to E Marcotte!


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## colnagoG60 (Jun 27, 2013)

spade2you said:


> I'm amazed it was own by a guy who has a day job!


FWIW, I want to say that "Davis Phinney" won the US Pro in Philly, in his thirties, by only training 1 hour per day. Its something that always struck me as odd over the years, given that its a 150mi/6hr race, but there's something in what my little league football coaches used to say, "Practice like you play". May not be the exact same circumstances/situation with Mercotte, but I guess if you train hard/smart enough?


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Well hopefully some of you can come down to Tucson and do the shoot out with Eric and perhaps Travis this fall or winter break. I was a client of Eric's back in 2010. I attribute my current success (relative) in part to him. Each meeting was a mini class filled with hints about nutrition, recovery, training, even spirituality. Since my recovery I have ridden in many Tuesday nighters and some weekend training rides and maybe a local race or two with him. Each time I have a chance to chat with him I learn something new. If you do come down and run into Eric please ask him if he's using PEDs. I'm quite positive he will take the time to calmly and professionally educate you as to what he's been focusing on for years and years. Ask him what he did prior to cycling and how he applied that to cycling as well. 

Anyways, this whole thread should be moved to the pro cycling forum or deleted until such time one of our resident Einstein's proves it belongs here. If interested here is a post interview clip. Again, congrats to EM, Travis and the rest of SmartStop.

Race report: Arizona?s Marcotte and McCabe win pro nationals | Clipped In AZ

edit: 9:30 into the video sums up Eric to me. Peace!


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

woodys737 said:


> I'm quite positive he will take the time to calmly and professionally educate you as to what he's been focusing on for years and years. Ask him what he did prior to cycling and how he applied that to cycling as well.


And Lance claimed he climbed better because he climbed in high candence...right.

FWIW I'm not saying he's doping, but I've noticed many of these masters racers seem to be super bulky/muscular vs. look at world tour pros and even the guys like Phinney, John Degenkolb, etc don't look as muscular as them.

Then again this Eric guy is a crit specialist and this course suited him. The favorites probably just underestimated him.


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

Pre-race predictions put Taylor Phinney as a potential favorite.

Despite Taylor's self-admitted bulk, his current evident abilities of winning time trials and good race results in the classics would indicate he had good odds of performing well at the National's course because it was deemed not selective enough, and the distance from the last climb to the finish favored someone like Taylor-witness his win on a similar course profile at the Tour of California.

The National's course clearly didn't favor classic specialists or cliimbers. Some pre-race reviews even placed reasonable odds on a sprint finish.

The eventual winner's body composition was not a hindrance and in fact may have suited him well because of the above analysis on the course profile. Another factor was his relative anonymity vs. all the seasoned euro-pro names in attendance. When the decisive move went, anyone in the field watching didn't respect the fleeing suspects enough to take up the chase and all the favorites had their hands in their shorts...


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

deviousalex said:


> many of these masters racers seem to be super bulky/muscular vs. look at world tour pros and even the guys like Phinney, John Degenkolb, etc don't look as muscular as them.


Even sprinters like Degenkolb or Cavendish have to go over mountain climbs that go up for 19 kilometres like the Giro on Sunday.


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

woodys737 said:


> Well hopefully some of you can come down to Tucson and do the shoot out with Eric and perhaps Travis this fall or winter break. I was a client of Eric's back in 2010. I attribute my current success (relative) in part to him. Each meeting was a mini class filled with hints about nutrition, recovery, training, even spirituality. Since my recovery I have ridden in many Tuesday nighters and some weekend training rides and maybe a local race or two with him. Each time I have a chance to chat with him I learn something new. If you do come down and run into Eric please ask him if he's using PEDs. I'm quite positive he will take the time to calmly and professionally educate you as to what he's been focusing on for years and years. Ask him what he did prior to cycling and how he applied that to cycling as well.
> 
> Anyways, this whole thread should be moved to the pro cycling forum or deleted until such time one of our resident Einstein's proves it belongs here. If interested here is a post interview clip. Again, congrats to EM, Travis and the rest of SmartStop.
> 
> ...


I'm familiar with Marcotte as well, rode with him dozens of times, attended his seminars, had some good chats, etc. He's a good guy, but unless you are with him 24/7 you have no idea what he really does. I'm inclined to believe most the riders in the race that day were using some form of illegal enhancements.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

So sad. Isn't the whole idea of sport that everyone has a chance to shine, assuming an equal playing field? Sometimes the obvious folks win, as expected. Sometimes the underdog comes out and surprises us.

I'll admit I know nothing about Marcotte, he was completely off my radar until he won. And probably the same with many of you. Maybe he did dope. Or maybe he had his best day on a bike and that resulted in a win, fair and square.

Just based on what I know of the team, I have to lean towards being clean. MK was managed by Adam Myerson, now with Michael Creed as Director. AM is one of the most outspoken anti-doping pros out there. And Creed as a former pro is probably a close second. I can't see AM or Creed having a guy on the team that they thought would "go to the dark side". Again, that is pure speculation and correlative reasoning, but for the moment, I don't buy the doubters.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

krisdrum said:


> Sometimes the underdog comes out and surprises us.


Let's keep in mind this team had 3 of the top 5 placings. That is quite a feat for an amateur team.


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## runabike (Jun 18, 2013)

deviousalex said:


> Let's keep in mind this team had 3 of the top 5 placings. That is quite a feat for an amateur team.


This was the US PRO Championships. 

There were no amateurs in this race. Elite amateur races are in Madison in July.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

deviousalex said:


> Let's keep in mind this team had 3 of the top 5 placings. That is quite a feat for an amateur team.


Let's be clear. Hardly amateurs. These are pros. Get paid to race. Top 3 continental team. They give UHC a hard run for their money in every crit and stage race.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

runabike said:


> Plus one. Too many blithering idiots in this forum posting a bunch of nonsensical garbage.
> 
> Do your jobs, mods, instead of letting people be thrown under the bus by mediocre wannabes with insecurity issues.


Wow. The rhetorical firepower is impressive. I mean, how could any thinking person be skeptical of pro bike racing? Never mind that I personally know a couple of domestic pros who got popped for steroids. Anyone who is must be, let's see, a blithering idiot wannabe with insecurity issues posting nonsensical garbage! 

Tell me--now that your rhetorical howitzer is all warmed up--are these domestic pros subject to the biological passport?


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Fireform said:


> Tell me--now that your rhetorical howitzer is all warmed up--are these domestic pros subject to the biological passport?


That and are they even subject to out of competition tests?


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## runabike (Jun 18, 2013)

Fireform said:


> Wow. The rhetorical firepower is impressive. I mean, how could any thinking person be skeptical of pro bike racing? Never mind that I personally know a couple of domestic pros who got popped for steroids. Anyone who is must be, let's see, a blithering idiot wannabe with insecurity issues posting nonsensical garbage!
> 
> Tell me--now that your rhetorical howitzer is all warmed up--are these domestic pros subject to the biological passport?


Is it? Or is it simply so far over your head that your only hope of a coherent rebuttal is to wax philosophical about grammar? But no, that mustn't be it since you're left to simply repeat what I've already written. 

Never mind the reputations of these guys, both professional and personal, you tell me; anyone that does well is to be tossed under the superficial umbrella of doping simply because you don't expect their results and you "personally know a couple of domestic pros who got popped for steroids"?

Critical thinking much? 

(Rhetorical question, just in case you're falling over yourself trying to figure out a cogent response.)


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

runabike said:


> Is it? Or is it simply so far over your head that your only hope of a coherent rebuttal is to wax philosophical about grammar? But no, that mustn't be it since you're left to simply repeat what I've already written.
> 
> Never mind the reputations of these guys, both professional and personal, you tell me; anyone that does well is to be tossed under the superficial umbrella of doping simply because you don't expect their results and you "personally know a couple of domestic pros who got popped for steroids"?
> 
> ...


I realize you think I'm supposed to be awestruck because you say you're a cat 1. Well, that's not going to happen. 

If you can ever stop your bombastic posturing, maybe you can answer my question. I can wait. It looks like I have no choice.

Woody's response to my skepticism is reasonable--he knows the guy. Your response, so far, has been cartoonish. I'd bet that I've been following pro cycling since before you were born. I come by my skepticism honestly, the hard way. If you don't like that, tough beans.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

I don't understand why this discussion is in the doping thread. His profession, ironically, seems among the least likely to believe in the effects of drugs.
I do have to say, though, that while he might be a nice guy, he is still a chiropractor.
And I quote from the wikipedia that profession:

Chiropractic researchers have documented that fraud, abuse and quackery are more prevalent in chiropractic than in other health care professions.[6] Unsubstantiated claims about the efficacy of chiropractic have continued to be made by individual chiropractors and chiropractic associations. The core concept of traditional chiropractic, vertebral subluxation, is not based on sound science. Collectively, systematic reviews have not demonstrated that spinal manipulation, the main treatment method employed by chiropractors, was effective for any medical condition, with the possible exception of treatment for back pain.[3] Although rare,[7] spinal manipulation, particularly on the upper spine, can also result in complications that can lead to permanent disability or death; these can occur in adults[8] and children.[9]

Chiropractors historically were strongly opposed to vaccination based on their belief that all diseases were traceable to causes in the spine, and therefore could not be affected by vaccines.[10] Some chiropractors continue to be opposed to vaccination.[11] Early opposition to water fluoridation included chiropractors in the U.S. Some chiropractors opposed water fluoridation as being incompatible with chiropractic philosophy and an infringement of personal freedom. Recently, other chiropractors have actively promoted fluoridation, and several chiropractic organizations have endorsed scientific principles of public health.[12]


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## 202cycle (Sep 13, 2011)




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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

202cycle said:


> View attachment 296117



OOOOOKKKAY. Nice triceps, I have to admit. They look bigger than my quads.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

deviousalex said:


> That and are they even subject to out of competition tests?


Yes they are (so are you if you race). He was tested after the race, no idea if he has been tested prior to that this season.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

thumper8888 said:


> I don't understand why this discussion is in the doping thread. His profession, ironically, seems among the least likely to believe in the effects of drugs.
> I do have to say, though, that while he might be a nice guy, he is still a chiropractor.
> And I quote from the wikipedia that profession:
> 
> ...


That wiki definition is one of the worst descriptions of the chiropractic profession that I've ever seen....Must have been written by Stephen Barrett.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

32and3cross said:


> Yes they are (so are you if you race).


Partially incorrect. USADA only does out of competition tests for elite riders, not us rank and file parking lot critters.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Anyway, I watched the race on the live feed. Marcotte was in no way dominant. He made it into the early break, rode very smart, never took a harder / longer pull than necessary, was dropped the final time up the big climb (by the protour rider Ben King, who IMHO blew it by attacking and burning too much energy in the wrong places), managed to claw back on as a two groups of 7 came back together then blew up in the closing circuits, followed the right moves into the final group of 7-ish, and won the sprint, which was downhill into a corner then ~250 meters to the line. 

Not at all suspicious for a guy who's been at the top of the US domestic scene for years now.

/ edit to add - remember it was a very hot humid day, giving advantage to a guy from Arizona vs the Euro riders, and, race distance was 103 miles - that's a domestic distance, this ain't Milan-San Remo.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Creakyknees said:


> Partially incorrect. USADA only does out of competition tests for elite riders, not us rank and file parking lot critters.


And yet they popped a local masters guy with a OOC test, maybe he was avalible for testing because he "won" a masters nation championship.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Creakyknees said:


> Anyway, I watched the race on the live feed. Marcotte was in no way dominant. He made it into the early break, rode very smart, never took a harder / longer pull than necessary, was dropped the final time up the big climb (by the protour rider Ben King, who IMHO blew it by attacking and burning too much energy in the wrong places), managed to claw back on as a two groups of 7 came back together then blew up in the closing circuits, followed the right moves into the final group of 7-ish, and won the sprint, which was downhill into a corner then ~250 meters to the line.
> 
> Not at all suspicious for a guy who's been at the top of the US domestic scene for years now.
> 
> / edit to add - remember it was a very hot humid day, giving advantage to a guy from Arizona vs the Euro riders, and, race distance was 103 miles - that's a domestic distance, this ain't Milan-San Remo.



That is a spot on read of what happened. The guy proved that is you ride smart you don't have to be the strongest. 

At least our US champ this year did not hold on to a car up lookout MT like ol Fred Rod last year.


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## thumper8888 (Apr 7, 2009)

Maybe. I'm pretty sure I don't want to get pulled into a "rational" debate about chiropractors. But if even 30 percent of that is accurate, you simply can't defend the profession.
I know two, and both got into it because the ratio of potential income versus the amount of time in school was attractive, not because they wanted to help people. Both have professional inferiority complexes that lead them to spend vast amounts of time and energy trying to make everyone treat them as social equals to MDs. Small sample, but that is is some silly crap.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

32and3cross said:


> And yet they popped a local masters guy with a OOC test, maybe he was avalible for testing because he "won" a masters nation championship.


Are you talking about Richard Meeker? The failed test in question was from the race he won. Not out of competition.


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## runabike (Jun 18, 2013)

Fireform said:


> I realize you think I'm supposed to be awestruck because you say you're a cat 1. Well, that's not going to happen.
> 
> If you can ever stop your bombastic posturing, maybe you can answer my question. I can wait. It looks like I have no choice.
> 
> Woody's response to my skepticism is reasonable--he knows the guy. Your response, so far, has been cartoonish. I'd bet that I've been following pro cycling since before you were born. I come by my skepticism honestly, the hard way. If you don't like that, tough beans.



You clearly don't realize a lot of things. 

What is my bombastic posturing, exactly? Maybe you can expressly state it because to be frank, I don't really think you have a clue what you're talking about both in regards to the subject at hand and what I'm writing about. 

Case in point: your "skepticism" is based on an unexpected result and you knowing of someone else that got popped for steroids.

Not an iota of critical thinking, not a shred of knowledge regarding him or his abilities, and certainly not a shred of respect for him as a rider or a person. Just because you don't "think" he should ride the way he did. 

And yet you "think" you have a position that you can actually defend, a position based solely on said "thinking"? Lucky the rest of the world doesn't operate in the delusional paradise you're inhabiting.


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## bluelena69 (Apr 19, 2005)

matabala said:


> Why has he been languishing in the minor leagues all these years if he has the talent to beat proven WT riders on a demanding course for a National title? Why hasn't he been battling the Greipels, Sagans and Cavendishs of the cycling world? Where are his previous victories on similar courses? What other current successful professional road racers carry that kind of bulging muscle mass to victory? I forgot, must be good, wholesome living and providential genetics.


Because he would probably prefer to earn a living in a field he loves and live a normal life, as opposed to earning $40k riding as a hired hand on a Pro Tour team. Seriously, excepting that enjoyed by a small handful of riders, life as a run-of-the-mill pro cyclist isn't that appealing to everyone.


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## 88 rex (Mar 18, 2008)

Untitled on Vimeo

Guy looks legit.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

deviousalex said:


> Are you talking about Richard Meeker? The failed test in question was from the race he won. Not out of competition.


Nope Pete Cannell, they popped him a breakfast.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

bluelena69 said:


> Because he would probably prefer to earn a living in a field he loves and live a normal life, as opposed to earning $40k riding as a hired hand on a Pro Tour team. Seriously, excepting that enjoyed by a small handful of riders, life as a run-of-the-mill pro cyclist isn't that appealing to everyone.


Especially when there's no guarantee of employment next year. Wages aside, I'd think virtually everyone on this board has better job security than that.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

spade2you said:


> Especially when there's no guarantee of employment next year. Wages aside, I'd think virtually everyone on this board has better job security than that.



This and the low $ is exactly why my wife did not choose to ride for a pro team when she had offers. Hard to go from a scientist making in the upper 5 figures to making 5k and getting a bike to sell at the end of the season (if that).


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

32and3cross said:


> This and the low $ is exactly why my wife did not choose to ride for a pro team when she had offers. Hard to go from a scientist making in the upper 5 figures to making 5k and getting a bike to sell at the end of the season (if that).


I'm nowhere near good enough to be a pro. Not sure what I'd choose if I had the option. Decent job, good stability, good $, but boring and not much to look back on.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

spade2you said:


> I'm nowhere near good enough to be a pro. Not sure what I'd choose if I had the option. Decent job, good stability, good $, but boring and not much to look back on.



Well in her case she was racing at the top level on the national scene so she was getting to do the races (but of course with much less support and having to work a full time job) add to that she liked her job and had done things like played in a band etc so... Now she works in cycling but with a steady solid paycheck as a editor/reporter.


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## GearDaddy (Apr 1, 2004)

I too recognize Marcotte as a frequent name in the ranks of the amateur scene in Minnesota, but don't know him personally. It's interesting that he pulled off such a win, as I remember him as being a consistently good rider, but not necessarily the dominant rider on the scene. That was a few years ago, and he seems to have stayed dedicated to training and advancing his cycling career. I'd noticed that he was showing up with bigger teams to participate in NVGP. It sounds like he's worked hard and got a well deserved payoff. Good for him.

It's interesting to follow those local riders that appear to have such talent, and then see where they end up. As a contrast to Marcotte, arguably the best local rider in our area was a guy named Doug Swanson. When he was "on" he just crushed it. He was good in different disciplines too, and was considered the top mountain biker and cyclocrosser in the area. I believe he may still have the course record for the Cheq 40 Fat Tire race. He did some time as a pro mountain biker for Trek, and he hit the national scene in cyclocross a bit. He also participated in a few NVGPs, but associated with a local amateur team only. But ultimately he decided to fade out of it all and dedicate himself towards raising a family. He's the same age as Marcotte, or maybe a few years older. Different choices ...


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

88 rex said:


> Untitled on Vimeo
> 
> Guy looks legit.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIl5RxhLZ5U

Guy looks legit.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

IIRC EM started road cycling/racing pretty late. Maybe at Travis' age now but not 100%. He was into natural body building prior to cycling. From listening to him talk it's clear he is highly interested in how to optimize the body for performance through clean eating. I've heard from friends that know him better than I he was into BMX way back and is a naturally gifted athlete no matter the sport. Prior to his move to AZ he won either P1 or P1/2 races against some domestic pros while riding for Bianchi. So, it's not like he just started mixing in with elite cyclists this year. 

Also, at least back in 2010 time frame he was more interested in building his practice than a career in cycling. I know he still feels this way today but, I think he will take a few more years in cycling and fall back to the practice as I think it's rolling well now. One thing is for sure, if he's using banned substances he is going to lose way, way more than just a low paying contract. Hard for me to believe he'd jeopardize his practice after just getting it going. Anything is possible though. Only he knows for sure.


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## PaxRomana (Jan 16, 2012)

I'm not going to bet on any cyclist being clean, but I don't see anything in Marcotte's performance that screams "doper" to me. The guy won a smart, tactical race on a course designed for rouleurs. If he wins Tour of the Gila, well, maybe we can start to wonder a bit.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

PaxRomana said:


> I'm not going to bet on any cyclist being clean, but I don't see anything in Marcotte's performance that screams "doper" to me. The guy won a smart, tactical race on a course designed for rouleurs. If he wins Tour of the Gila, well, maybe we can start to wonder a bit.


Pretty much. I also think future victories might be a little tougher when he's easier to identify.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

I would chuck up his win as a one-hit wonder. 


The course fitted him. The other WT guys were still tired from their previous races. And he was in his peak form. Exceptional team tactics. All could very well amount to give a guy like Marcotte a miracle win.

Remember Vinokourov's 2012 Olympic road win? I mean the dude was 39 years old at the time, at the very end of his already twilighting career, yet he won against guys much better than him, and against guys with superior team support (Cav and Sky, I mean Brits). And not only did Vino won that race, the 2nd place guy was some Colombian climber! So here was a race that was projected to be won by sprinter specialists, yet it was won by an old guy, followed by a climber. So clearly the favorites and more capable guys all lost out because they were either running bad tactics or were busy sizing up each other while two weaker guys managed to sneak away at the right moment! Yea yea Vino was a doper, but still, it was not any suspicious doping that won him that gold medal. It was more of bad decisions from the rest of the field.

It would have been interesting if Phiney didn't crash out though. I think Phiney would have taken it, and none of this would be even discussed. Ben King is a great WT guy, but I've seen him shoot his wad out a bit early at times and then burn up.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

32and3cross said:


> At least our US champ this year did not hold on to a car up lookout MT like ol Fred Rod last year.


This is the first I've heard that. If true it is hilarious. Are there any sources for it or photographs?


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

robdamanii said:


> That wiki definition is one of the worst descriptions of the chiropractic profession that I've ever seen.


Have you heard what insurance company claims adjusters say about chiropractics?


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

spade2you said:


> Especially when there's no guarantee of employment next year. Wages aside, I'd think virtually everyone on this board has better job security than that.


Um... No.
All but one state in the U.S. allows "employment at will": Unless you have a contract (union or professional) your employer can fire you at any time for no reason at all. Most people in the U.S. don't have job security past the five o'clock whistle.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

JohnStonebarger said:


> Um... No.
> All but one state in the U.S. allows "employment at will": Unless you have a contract (union or professional) your employer can fire you at any time for no reason at all. Most people in the U.S. don't have job security past the five o'clock r


Yes, job security is not what it used to be. At the same time, some entry level employees can get fired from McDonalds and hired at BurgerKing the next week. Can pro cyclists move around so easily? And many professionals can just hang a shingle or put up a website and enjoy the freedoms and challenges of being self-employed. Who can fire a chiropractor aside from his patients? A guy who has a bad year in pharmaceutical sales can always jump right into insurance sales. In my opinion, there is a lot more room for lateral movement in the professional world than there is among pro cyclists. 

My pro cyclists friends live contract to contract. An injury or bad season can end a career. And these guys are uneducated. What do they do if they have to quit, get a job at a bike shop?


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

Local Hero said:


> What do they do if they have to quit, get a job at a bike shop?


I'm pretty sure that pro cyclists can get jobs at Burger King, too. Or drive a school bus, or go into sales, or... Isn't that what you're saying everyone else can do? I'm not saying that pro cyclists have it better, only that most of us don't have "job security." We're just trying to pay bills and feed kids. That's the norm here in the U.S.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Local Hero said:


> Have you heard what insurance company claims adjusters say about chiropractics?


I trust an insurance company as much as I trust wikipedia.

That's to say, not much...


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

Local Hero said:


> This is the first I've heard that. If true it is hilarious. Are there any sources for it or photographs?


No photos (or he would have been dq-ed) but its was pretty well know on the inside. Of course I realize with out me being to provide proof its sort of a basely claim (except I have heard first hand accounts) sort like accusing a guy of doping for riding well and having an upper body .


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

JohnStonebarger said:


> Um... No.
> All but one state in the U.S. allows "employment at will": Unless you have a contract (union or professional) your employer can fire you at any time for no reason at all. Most people in the U.S. don't have job security past the five o'clock whistle.


Yeah this dosn't really hold water in the instance we are discussing. While he may not have Job security Eric has a practice he has built and likely enough money coming in that he can save against that he might not, that a bit harder to walk away from than say a 30 hour a week gig at the local bike shop.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

32and3cross said:


> Yeah this dosn't really hold water in the instance we are discussing. While he may not have Job security Eric has a practice he has built and likely enough money coming in that he can save against that he might not, that a bit harder to walk away from than say a 30 hour a week gig at the local bike shop.


Totally agree. As a chiropractor, even part-time, he probably makes many times what his cycling gig pays. He definitely has something to fall back on.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

JohnStonebarger said:


> I'm pretty sure that pro cyclists can get jobs at Burger King, too. Or drive a school bus, or go into sales, or... Isn't that what you're saying everyone else can do? I'm not saying that pro cyclists have it better, only that most of us don't have "job security." We're just trying to pay bills and feed kids. That's the norm here in the U.S.


They are not going to sell pharma pills without a college education. 

My point is that a skilled cyclist who gets canned may have a difficult time getting another contract. It might take until *next* year. And without race support for the remainder of this year, how will they show the next team what they are capable of doing? Even without getting canned, it can be a challenge for a cyclist to renew their current, annual contract. Cyclists I know are often worried about which direction things will go next year. If they have a bad year they will have to go in a completely different direction. 

A skilled machinist who gets canned might be able to walk over to another factory across the street. And a major difference there is that a machinist who has been working in the factory for 10 years is more valuable than a cyclist who has been riding for 10 years. Many workers in the US get *better* at their jobs with time. How long is the average pro cyclist's career? Do cyclists get raises or promotions based on seniority? 

A McDonalds guy going to Burger King is a lateral move. Do you think it is a lateral move for a cyclist to get a job at a fast food joint? 

The same thing goes for many professions. A secretary who has put in 5-10 years move into office management or find another gig if things go south. If they get canned and have to look around, temp agencies are *always* looking for administrating assistants. 

Sure, you have a point. Employment is at will. Nobody is arguing against that. It's just that life is more precarious for pro-cyclists. And it's not exactly a marketable skill.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

32and3cross said:


> Yeah this dosn't really hold water in the instance we are discussing. While he may not have Job security Eric has a practice he has built and likely enough money coming in that he can save against that he might not, that a bit harder to walk away from than say a 30 hour a week gig at the local bike shop.


Watched him today at Philly.

He's big compared to most cyclists. He's not big compared to your average guy who hits the gym and lifts.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

JohnStonebarger said:


> Um... No.
> All but one state in the U.S. allows "employment at will": Unless you have a contract (union or professional) your employer can fire you at any time for no reason at all. Most people in the U.S. don't have job security past the five o'clock whistle.


I'm sure my employer would like to get rid of me. I've been (un)fortunate to work at a place that is a soul crusher and we have bad turnover. There can be security in a place like this.

Still, most of us will generally have a job unless things get bad, which is still generally going to be better than one year contracts.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

If an athlete is not subject to the biological passport, is there any way to detect an auto-transfusion?


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Local Hero said:


> If an athlete is not subject to the biological passport, is there any way to detect an auto-transfusion?


Widespread Plasticizer Clouds Doping Tests of Cyclists - Scientific American

You can look for plasticizers.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

deviousalex said:


> Widespread Plasticizer Clouds Doping Tests of Cyclists - Scientific American
> 
> You can look for plasticizers.


That's interesting in its own right. I would like to see the test for plasticizers on control groups. And since nearly everyone is exposed to the stuff, I would like to know the basis on which they testers establish a baseline. Would it be as arbitrary as 50% hct?


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

woodys737 said:


> I know him personally and have never met another human being so devoted to clean living in my life.


Yes, that does seem to be the sentiment here in San Diego fwiw..


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Local Hero said:


> They are not going to sell pharma pills without a college education.
> 
> My point is that a skilled cyclist who gets canned may have a difficult time getting another contract. It might take until *next* year. And without race support for the remainder of this year, how will they show the next team what they are capable of doing? Even without getting canned, it can be a challenge for a cyclist to renew their current, annual contract. Cyclists I know are often worried about which direction things will go next year. If they have a bad year they will have to go in a completely different direction.
> 
> ...


Lots of great points. I don't think any person who has lived in the real world would argue against them, unless they just want to be argumentative. It's the reason why all parents want to see their kids get a college education.

On a related note, I know ex-pro tri guy who is now not competing anymore because he's no longer competitive,,, and he sure doesn't what he's going to do for a living yet. Lucky for him, he his dad has a small business and he works for his dad (out of necessity). But not every retired athlete is going to have such dad.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

robdamanii said:


> Watched him today at Philly.
> 
> He's big compared to most cyclists. He's not big compared to your average guy who hits the gym and lifts.


In the youtube video, he looks very average sized. And you're right, any serious gym rat who has hit the gym for a year can be bigger than him.

I think when people flex their muscle, like what they do when they win something, they look bigger than they actually are. 

This is not to argue that Marcotte natural or unnatural.


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## jmorgan (Apr 13, 2012)

aclinjury said:


> In the youtube video, he looks very average sized. And you're right, any serious gym rat who has hit the gym for a year can be bigger than him.
> 
> I think when people flex their muscle, like what they do when they win something, they look bigger than they actually are.
> 
> This is not to argue that Marcotte natural or unnatural.


lol old picture but funny. "Arizona's Lance Armstrong"












and his goals for this year.

"Goals for 2014: Take the team to the next level." lol next level, we all know what it takes to get to the "next level", ask Lance.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

jmorgan said:


> lol old picture but funny. "Arizona's Lance Armstrong"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


well yeaah! "Lance Armstrong" and "next level" is code for "d0p3" lol


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

So SmartStop will be in the Tour of Utah. This will be interesting to watch.


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