# Renshaw disqualified from tour



## Damon64 (Sep 24, 2005)

Seems a bit harsh to DQ him for his head-butting and the cut off. I would agree with Liggett and Sherwen that placing him at the back would be sufficient.

Looking at replays, he could have caused a nasty spill for all when he dropped off there.


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## rockstar2083 (Aug 30, 2005)

cumulative punishment for the HTC team's repeat offenses in sprint finishes


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Renshaw was awarded the Wanker of the Day Jersey, prior to DQing, by VeloSnooze.


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

rockstar2083 said:


> cumulative punishment for the HTC team's repeat offenses in sprint finishes


What repeat offences?


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## wooglin (Feb 22, 2002)

Team penalty. They couldn't relegate Cavendish for Renshaw's actions but Renshaw's actions probably effected the overall outcome. So they did the next best thing by penalizing the team in future stages in the only way they could.


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## tomcho (Jan 30, 2010)

The headbutting of the Garmin lead out and clear cut off of Farrar was ridiculous. Neither of which Cav needed.


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## mendo (Apr 18, 2007)

If any of you tech-minded folk have a chance to post a video of the head-butt, it would be much appreciated.


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## LWP (Jun 6, 2006)

A dq is complete BS as far as I'm concerned. Julian said the head-butting was no big deal. That it's just part of sprinting. The only one even somewhat pouting was Farrar, trying to make it sound like Renshaw almost took out half the field when that clearly wasn't the case. I've been pulling for Farrar to take a sprint or two, now I kinda hope Cav manages to sweep the rest of them and head-butts the air as he crosses the line each time.


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## sokudo (Dec 22, 2007)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoZkNbxojKw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NazxCDmPBG8


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## Damon64 (Sep 24, 2005)

I couldn't believe how well Julian Dean was with the head-butting on him on his post-race interview. He accepted it as part of the race. I would have been a bit bent out of shape about it, but I'm bent out of shape anyways so there you go.


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## slamy (Mar 15, 2004)

Jeeze .. that dude needs to be kicked out. You see when he saw Tyler on Cav's wheel? He tried to sideswipe him also. That guy could have gotten a lot of people hurt.


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## T-Doc (Apr 4, 2002)

I still think Renshaw was just trying to protect his position from Dean's obvious encroachment, but then Renshaw clearly blocked Farrar, which to me is a much bigger crime.


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## MattSoutherden (Jun 24, 2009)

This is already being discussed in the St 11 thread...


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## SlowMo (Apr 18, 2006)

*I hear you...*



Damon64 said:


> I couldn't believe how well Julian Dean was with the head-butting on him on his post-race interview. He accepted it as part of the race. I would have been a bit bent out of shape about it, but I'm bent out of shape anyways so there you go.


He should have grabbed his front wheel off his bike and went hub/head hunting. (Isn't that how these guys fight these days?)


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

Interestingly Julian Dean's elbowing Renshaw not being spotted.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

That was definitely one of the most "aggressive" sprints that I have ever seen in the TdF.

Fun to watch, yet someone could have really really gone down hard...a helmet to the face = a bit of a distraction to say the least...

No take on the punishment from me...it is what it is.. He learned his lesson most likely..

He was not the only rider pushing the limits (see Dean?)...just the most aggressive/obvious..

I wonder how Cav will do now..should be interesting..


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## leadag (Jan 4, 2005)

the headbutting - no big deal, and I would lay the lame with Dean who trying to push him off his line. 

cutting off Farrar is the much bigger offense. winding someone into the barriers is much more likely to cause a serious crash. Wasen't it Baden Cooke who got taken out in a similar manner a few years back in the Giro??


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## Kaleo (Jun 15, 2008)

That was pretty blatant, and they had to make an example of Renshaw to warn others that this kind of aggression is not acceptable. Cycling is NOT a contact sport, and the speeds these guys are going at the end of the race is really dangerous enough as it is. He could have caused a huge pile up.


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

The headbutting was accepted by Dean... I doubt he even knew Farrar was to his side. This sucks for HTC though..


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2010)

*Ahhh........just like old times...........*

and I thought the 'good ole days' of my favorite Austrailian sprinter were gone for good.

Looks like Robbie's been schooling a new generation...............:mad2:


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## slamy (Mar 15, 2004)

ok I watched it again and Tyler puts his hand out to push Renshaw away from running him into the barrier.


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## leadag (Jan 4, 2005)

regarding the claims about cycling not being a contact sport......

then maybe the should have DQ'd the guy (Dean) who initiated the contact?????:idea:


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## leadag (Jan 4, 2005)

I don't think Renshaw realized that Farrar was on his hip.. as soon as farrar gives him a touch he pops out of the way... if he was purposely trying to ride him into the boards there would have been no response..


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

Renshaw did move left in front of Farrar, but not all the way to the barrier. Farrar still had room to move around him. 

I think relegation for Renshow would have been sufficient.

JSR


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## LWP (Jun 6, 2006)

sokudo said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoZkNbxojKw
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NazxCDmPBG8


Yep, it shows exactly what I saw in the broadcast. Julian leaning on Renshaw a bit with an elbow thrown just before the head-butt. The first thing you hear in the first video is the announcer saying "Julian Dean digging the shoulder in". The only difference was Julian was a little more subtle so it didn't look as dramatic on camera. Neither Julian or Renshaw were upset about any of it, they both thought it was just part of the game. Why are so many others crying about it?


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

T-Doc said:


> I still think Renshaw was just trying to protect his position from Dean's obvious encroachment, but then Renshaw clearly blocked Farrar, which to me is a much bigger crime.


I think kicking him out of the race was a step too far. "head-butting" is a strong word - the sprinters always use head to lean into each other. Renshaw was merely protecting his sprinting line - Dean's surge almost rode him into barriers.
Blocking Farrar was a bigger deal to me too - it seemed he looked back, and then changed his line, perhaps intentionally blocking Farrar. By that time Farrar should have been on Cav's wheel, though.


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## slamy (Mar 15, 2004)

leadag said:


> I don't think Renshaw realized that Farrar was on his hip.. as soon as farrar gives him a touch he pops out of the way... if he was purposely trying to ride him into the boards there would have been no response..



You are crazy. watch it again. Farrar is only half a bike length behind Renshaw and there is no way he didn't see him. He even turns his head to look then cuts right into him. This coming from a guy who 5 seconds before was headbutting someone.


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## S_Top_Sign (Dec 9, 2009)

Yea - The head-butting wasn't the main problem. It was definitely more about Renshaw clearly looking back, noticing Farrar, and then choosing to alter his line as to disrupt Tyler's progress. That was a pretty low move in my opinion, and doesn't seem to express a lot of confidence in yourself or your teammate to win.

Jeez, Tyler already has enough of a problem with that elbow - no need to make things worse or try to cut him off.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

slamy said:


> You are crazy. watch it again. Farrar is only half a bike length behind Renshaw and there is no way he didn't see him. He even turns his head to look then cuts right into him. This coming from a guy who 5 seconds before was headbutting someone.


I am not sure what to think of Renshaw's intent, but if you watch helicopter shot in the second youtube video, Farrar decides to follow Renshaw's wheel to the right instead of jumping to Cavendish who goes way too fast for Farrar on the left. When Petacchi starts sprint on the right of Renshaw, Farrar is right behind Renshaw, not half-a-bike length (as it may appear from front shots). It's plausible he didn't see Farrar there in his half-a-glance.


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## kmac (Feb 13, 2007)

I have to agree with those saying that cutting of Farrar was the more dangerous conduct. I think Dean and Renshaw were fighting for position, both were pushing on each other. I do admit that as I was watching it, I was yelling at the TV (my kids love when I do that!) "look at that!" as Renshaw was head butting Dean, but I'm not sure it was an offense worthy of expulsion from the Tour. It did, however, look like Renshaw looked over his shoulder, saw Farrar coming up, and moved into Farrar's line. That looked very intentional and dangerous. Intentional in terms of trying to block, I don't think he intended to hurt Farrar. But that would have been the outcome, obviously, if Farrar had ridden into the barriers, or clipped the feet of those barriers.

Interesting that they made the decision so quickly. Isn't the advice that big decisions shouldn't be made in the heat of the moment? Seems like they could have let the emotion die down some for all involved, including the race officials, reviewed some tape, talk to the riders, and then made a decision.


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## tinkerbeast (Jul 24, 2009)

so if dean leans on renshaw the appropriate response would be to lean back and throw in a few elbows... its called jostling for position. people can get fined and/or relagated, but really? relegating a lead out guy and fining him 200 swiss franks? yea that'll show him. headbutting on the other hand can cause disastrous crashes (watch track cycling) and is hardly comparable to leaning/elbowing.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

Seems like the TDF judges were trying to 'send a message' to HTC and Cav..."We don't like what you guys have been doing" 

Bike racing is not Roller Derby. What, next we'll be seeing Columbia keeping half the team back, with arms linked, blocking as Cav goes off? And all the other guys trying to 'Jam' through to get to the line?


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## LesDiablesRouges (Jul 17, 2009)

Now all we need is a protest neutralizing a stage ... oh wait


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Gnarly 928 said:


> Bike racing is not Roller Derby. What, next we'll be seeing Columbia keeping half the team back, with arms linked, blocking as Cav goes off? And all the other guys trying to 'Jam' through to get to the line?


Next Year: Full Contact ProTour


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## slimjw (Jul 30, 2008)

Hard to tell what was going through their minds, but if you watch the video Farrar touches Renshaw multiple times after Ren pulls off. I bet Columbia would argue Renshaw was just pulling over, but I have my doubts. He certainly knew Farrar was there after Tyler reached out the first time. Farrar had to practically shove him to get around and accelerate, at which point it was over in terms of catching Cavendish. 

Chapeau to Dean for taking those headbutts in stride, though! Didn't look like it even fazed him.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

ZoSoSwiM said:


> The headbutting was accepted by Dean... I doubt he even knew Farrar was to his side. This sucks for HTC though..



Yes, true. OTHER riders COULD have been severely affected if someone went down. Dean is a very forgiving rider...props to him I guess...


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

The TdF organizers have already used up their medical budget for this year. They can't afford any more doctor bills.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I definitely find more "offense" in the poor line he took in front of Tyler than the actual head butt. Sure, the head butt looks bad, but in reality, not much different from the usual argy bargy. 

I'll never deny HTCs sprinting power, but I'm not too happy about the sportsmanship about the lines they have been taking this year. I would have figured Cav losing out on the green jersey last year would have taught them how to keep it clean. 



jd3 said:


> The TdF organizers have already used up their medical budget for this year. They can't afford any more doctor bills.


LOL, no kidding. This Tour hath no mercy!


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

sokudo said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoZkNbxojKw
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NazxCDmPBG8



Thanks for posting these. Makes everything crystal clear. Renshaw.... too bad.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

So, I'm the only one who thought that was an awesomely intense finish? Jeez.


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## bikeguy0 (Sep 23, 2007)

I can't believe people are wishy washy about this..... The guy fricking headbutted another rider 3 times and then purposefully cut off a contending sprinter so he had no chance to win. That IS what happened. 

He absolutely should have been kicked out and I think they should have relegated Cavendish for the conduct of his teammate. If your teammate pulls that kind of crap there is no way the sprinter should gain the benefit and be able to win the stage.


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

The review clearly shows renshaw LOOKING at Farrar coming up and dramatically vearing to cut him off. Too many coincidences to be just "racing hard". he looked right at him. Reason # 347 why i could never cut it as a pro- I would have lit that guy up like a xmas tree at his team bus and gave him a wedgie to boot. I cant even conceive of the speeds these guys hit... and he's gonna run him into a barrier! Memories of Abdu, i cant get out of my head I guess.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

I don't think Dean was leaning all that much, if at all... was there even any contact? Looked to me like he came ahead of Renshaw and stuck out his elbows, but did not make contact. Renshaw didn't like that and started the contact by headbutting. 

But yeah, putting Farrar into the wall is the thing that would tick me off, regardless of whether Farrar was in contention for the win, it's dangerous and clearly against the rules.


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

One of those incidents on its own could call for relegation, or maybe written off as "just racing". Any given rider that tangled with him could easily brush it off. But, when you have one guy pinballing back and forth significantly interfering with multiple riders, the judges can't ignore his actions.

Not sure what Renshaw was even thinking, as Cavendish didn't appear to need the "help".


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

LWP said:


> Yep, it shows exactly what I saw in the broadcast. Julian leaning on Renshaw a bit with an elbow thrown just before the head-butt. The first thing you hear in the first video is the announcer saying "Julian Dean digging the shoulder in". The only difference was Julian was a little more subtle so it didn't look as dramatic on camera. Neither Julian or Renshaw were upset about any of it, they both thought it was just part of the game. Why are so many others crying about it?


Julian Dean isn't crying about it, but he sure doesn't seem happy about Renshaw...

http://nos.nl/video/172276-renshaw-dit-hoort-er-bij.html


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Ventruck said:


> So, I'm the only one who thought that was an awesomely intense finish? Jeez.


I don't think anyone will argue that it was intense. Awesome? I don't think too many racers will be too happy with the finish. 

I'm going with the assumption that about 1/2 of us race or have at least raced in the past. I almost got taken down by a pile up, which was taken out by a sweep like that. So, when I see it, not a fan.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

Ventruck said:


> So, I'm the only one who thought that was an awesomely intense finish? Jeez.



Nope. NASCAR would be more exciting if they shot bottle rockets at each other during those left turns....does not mean that it is OK.

Exciting yes....appropriate no.

There is not one person here debating how "intense" the sprint was.

If you had read my first post, you would not have felt so alone:

"That was definitely one of the most "aggressive" sprints that I have ever seen in the TdF.

Fun to watch, yet someone could have really really gone down hard.."


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

Creakyknees said:


> I don't think Dean was leaning all that much, if at all... was there even any contact? Looked to me like he came ahead of Renshaw and stuck out his elbows, but did not make contact. Renshaw didn't like that and started the contact by headbutting.
> 
> But yeah, putting Farrar into the wall is the thing that would tick me off, regardless of whether Farrar was in contention for the win, it's dangerous and clearly against the rules.


I see it like you do. No, there was no contact. Dean was slightly ahead of Renshaw when he stuck his elbow out. If you watch the video, his elbow goes out like that several times before he ever gets near Renshaw. It looks like just something he does naturally. Renshaw definitely looked over, saw Tyler coming and *swerved hard* to cut him off.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

*Could Renshaw win?*

Seems like Renshaw, given a good lead out man, would be pretty frickin' fast too...possibly could take a couple of stages.

Any thoughts? I do get the fact that Cav is "their guy". Just wondering what it would be like IF Renshaw the "the sprinter" on another team..

Fearless and aggressive + speed = whoa.


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## davcruz (Oct 9, 2007)

jd3 said:


> I see it like you do. No, there was no contact. Dean was slightly ahead of Renshaw when he stuck his elbow out. If you watch the video, his elbow goes out like that several times before he ever gets near Renshaw. It looks like just something he does naturally. Renshaw definitely looked over, saw Tyler coming and *swerved hard* to cut him off.


Absolutely DITTO!

He certainly knew what he was doing when he cut of Farrar and I do not see any real contact made by Dean prior to getting headbutted 3 times by Renshaw anyway! Farrar had a head of steam and maybe he could not have caught Cav, but we will never know.


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## petalpower (Aug 10, 2009)

Ventruck said:


> So, I'm the only one who thought that was an awesomely intense finish? Jeez.



Nope. Me too. Then again, I came from many years of racing motocross and roadracing.

Rubbing is racing....


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## pianopiano (Jun 4, 2005)

*No Class*

Tour officials did the right thing by kicking Renshaw out. If not for the repeated and completely unnecessary head butting of Julian Dean, then for intentionally cutting off Tyler Farrar. 
Just like PeanutButterBreath said, Cav definitely didn't need that kind of 'help' from Renshaw.


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## rockstar2083 (Aug 30, 2005)

ultimobici said:


> What repeat offences?


Tour of Switzerland Cavendish crash, TDF stage 1 interesting cornering approach by Cavendish. I've got no beef with Cavendish but I could see the race officials coming down hard on Team HTC based on recent events. The sprints are getting a little rougher than they would like so let's make an example out of somebody.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Creakyknees said:


> I don't think Dean was leaning all that much, if at all... was there even any contact? Looked to me like he came ahead of Renshaw and stuck out his elbows, but did not make contact. Renshaw didn't like that and started the contact by headbutting.
> 
> But yeah, putting Farrar into the wall is the thing that would tick me off, regardless of whether Farrar was in contention for the win, it's dangerous and clearly against the rules.


Yes, that looked to me to.... like a "I am here" elbow touch. then Renshaw went berzerk on him.


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

Maybe he should have brought greipel.


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## cq20 (Mar 24, 2007)

From the overhead shots, it's clear that Dean rides diagonally towards Renshaw (and from the comments about the Tour of Switzerland, we all know how much this type of riding must be condemned by all fair minded people) and leans heavily on Renshaw (practically locking elbows). Renshaw responds in a less than subtle manner to avoid being boxed in and to avoid a pile-up.

IMO, so far it's a 50/50 and they are both in the wrong.

Also IMO, Cavendish sees what is going on and decides to get well out of it and starts his sprint from 375+ metres (instead of the usual 200 to 250).

Also IMO, Renshaw then deliberately blocks Farrar but at this stage Cavendish is long gone.

So…. 2 "fouls" by Renshaw, 1 "foul" by Dean and no impact in determining the stage winner.

How many fouls constitute a DQ is up to the judges (who admit that they only watched one video replay before making their decision).


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

So a bit of argy bargy in a sprint carries the same punishment as a failed drug test? 

The result of all this?
Cav will be even more motivated and could even win Green.


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## dip n ride (Sep 14, 2009)

I've only watched cycling for a couple years now but it seems like HTC-Columbia is always in the center of some sort of sprint controversy. To the untrained eye (like, well, mine) it seems like they lack discipline and respect for other riders. Maybe it's good that the race officials kicked Renshaw off, might open up HTC's eyes a bit.


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## thesmokingman (Dec 27, 2008)

Trying to put Farrar into the wall, not cool. When you cross the line you put yourself in the line of fire of the officials. I'm ok with him getting tossed, he tried to take someone out. He went all Braveheart... There's no room for that sort behavior.


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## gande_bike (Feb 28, 2006)

leadag said:


> the headbutting - no big deal, and I would lay the lame with Dean who trying to push him off his line.
> 
> cutting off Farrar is the much bigger offense. winding someone into the barriers is much more likely to cause a serious crash. Wasen't it Baden Cooke who got taken out in a similar manner a few years back in the Giro??



+1. Exactly right. Headbutt wasn't a big deal - just clearing space. The move to intercept Tyler was pure bs.


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

Very surprised he got DQ.d - relegation and a fine was the most I was expecting for stuff that routinely happens all the way in from 3km to the line. Freire and a couple others got a lot worse from HTC a few days ago and nothing at all was done so it really seems like either a cumulative penalty or the simple fact it was so prominent on the video.


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## masfish1967 (Mar 3, 2010)

After watching the video I see it this way... Renshaw made the first move into the line of the charging Dean, Dean passed him and moved into Renshaw using an elbow. Renshaw clearly lost his cool and decided to throw a few head butts - 1 would have been ok but more than that was not necesary and then to top it off he clearly tried to block Farrar as to prevent him from catching Cav. Renshaw got what he derserved.


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## muscleendurance (Jan 11, 2009)

you have to remember that 4 years olds are watching the tour, and lots of people who would not necessarily be watching Pro racing either.
There are reputations to be protected and all of that crap, headbutting on daytime summer TV doesnt go down well with this, it isnt 1980 anymore.


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## penn_rider (Jul 11, 2009)

He did not try to put Farrar into the wall.. He did block, but Cav was already gone.. He should have held his line.... DQ? WTF? This after the organizers have made the race the most brutal in recent memory.. I kinda got the hint that they wanted this sort of action...


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## motox155 (Jul 9, 2009)

gande_bike said:


> +1. Exactly right. Headbutt wasn't a big deal - just clearing space. The move to intercept Tyler was pure bs.


+2....from the overhead view you can see Dean move over a bit on Renshaw first, then Renshaw headbutt him moving him back on his line...rough racing but nothing really new. When Renshaw saw TF coming up on Cavs wheel he blatently veered over toward him to slow him up. But I do think a DQ is a bit harsh.


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

albert owen said:


> So a bit of argy bargy in a sprint carries the same punishment as a failed drug test?
> 
> The result of all this?
> Cav will be even more motivated and could even win Green.


"The same punishment as a failed drug test"? The guy got kicked out of a race, it's not like he's facing a two year ban now is he?


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## wiles (Apr 17, 2005)

*Yellow Card or Red Card*

The question in soccer terms is should the official throw a yellow or red card? In my opinion, red card. This is the World Cup of cycling after all with more sprints to come.


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## ManxShred (Mar 6, 2009)

What about Pattachi blocking Farrar after that? Pattachi moves a lot off of his line and Farrar has to get out of his sprint again after he cleared Renshaw. If Cav did that, he would have lost his points.


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## penn_rider (Jul 11, 2009)

wiles said:


> The question in soccer terms is should the official throw a yellow or red card? In my opinion, red card. This is the World Cup of cycling after all with more sprints to come.



I would love to see the race official jump out of his car and hold up a yellow or red card!


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## tober1 (Feb 6, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7t1uapa7jo&feature=player_embedded#!

Farrar after the race.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

Good decision by the race officials. A no-brainer.


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=8448&status=True&catname=Latest News


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)




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## mangotreat0808 (Sep 4, 2006)

..whatever transpired the first headbutt, probably one headbut is 'understandable' and may have relegated Renshaw to 'somewhere' but not a DQ. But the aggressive double headbuts, and the more flagrant, and very dangerous, irresponsible (and seemingly intentional) swerving in front of someone's line (Renshaw in front of Farrar's in this case) could have spelled doom for Farrar, i.e., broken ___bone (fill in the blanks) and goodbye peleton. Farrar who had to do some evasive action to avoid a crash said it well, 'You could still win (even) if you ride in a straight line'. How many wipeouts, accidents happen in races, club rides cuz someone swerves - at pro speeds (the stage saw 38mph average before the sprint), it could have definitely caused some major hurt.


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## 4cmd3 (Jul 14, 2007)

Renshaw got what he deserved.
Totally disgusting 

Cav should go and hide today, Renshaw sullied his sprint.
Great you won. Your team mate is a freakin' hooligan.


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

4cmd3 said:


> Renshaw got what he deserved.
> Totally disgusting
> 
> Cav should go and hide today, Renshaw sullied his sprint.
> Great you won. Your team mate is a freakin' hooligan.


I agree. Glad the moron was DQ'd. Cav won b/c his team was busy bullying rival sprinters.


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## C6Rider (Nov 15, 2008)

*Amen !!!*



4cmd3 said:


> Renshaw got what he deserved.
> Totally disgusting
> 
> Cav should go and hide today, Renshaw sullied his sprint.
> Great you won. Your team mate is a freakin' hooligan.


My thoughts, exactly


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## boneman (Nov 26, 2001)

*Should have just been relegated for the stage at worst*



Damon64 said:


> Seems a bit harsh to DQ him for his head-butting and the cut off. I would agree with Liggett and Sherwen that placing him at the back would be sufficient.
> 
> Looking at replays, he could have caused a nasty spill for all when he dropped off there.


While the headbutting/helmet banging was a dramatic touch, I don't think it was different from the normal argy bargy for big sprint finishes. Dean was trying to move left and force Renshaw to close the door along the barrier, thereby shutting Cav off, and Renshaw was holding his line. If you look at the aerial replay, it's nowhere near as dramatic compared to the frontside shots.

Sean Kelly who does the color commentary on the Eurosport feed I receive thought Renshaw did an outstanding job in bringing his man to the finish and holding his line. Kelly does know a thing or two about sprinting, both from his racing days and from doing commentary for the last decade.

One wonders why Farrar wasn't on Dean's wheel rather than following Cavendish on the short side of the road and boxing himself into a bad position. You look at Renshaw and Cavendish as well as Hondo and Petacchi, that's how you follow your last man before going for the line.

Expulsion from the Tour is an extreme move by the commissaires and for those who remember the Tashkent Terror, Abdoujaparov, what went on during this stage was minor stuff.


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

Disgusting tactics Renshaw. HTC should be thanking the organizers for not forfeiting the finish or even disqualifying the team altogether. They don't need bullies endangering everyone out there.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

Damon64 said:


> Seems a bit harsh to DQ him for his head-butting and the cut off. I would agree with Liggett and Sherwen that placing him at the back would be sufficient.
> 
> Looking at replays, he could have caused a nasty spill for all when he dropped off there.


Quote of the day:
"...In retrospect, Renshaw would have been wiser to simply stop, remove his front wheel, and begin striking Dean with it, since this would have only earned him a small fine and he'd still be able to race another day."

-- BikeSnobNYC,

http://www.universalsports.com/blogs/blog=tourtalk/postid=483338.html


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Julian Dean*

came into Renshaw's space, Dean is the one not holding a straight line
Julian Dean instigated the Argy Bargy with a shoulder and an elbow
Renshaw did what he had to to keep his guy in winning position and stay on his line
and my guess is him squeezing Farrar to the barriers was payback for Dean's behavior
as in 'you mess with me, I'll mess with your boy"

should have just relegated him

lame call on the DQ
it's freaking sprinting they aren't supposed to play nice


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## dougydee (Feb 15, 2005)

I don't get how a rider can attack another rider with their front wheel and then have a fist fight after the finish line and the punishment is a fine. And then an incident occurs during the heat of the moment whilst racing and the punishment is DQ.

The post finish-line fight looks much worse for the sport than the argy bargy during the sprint.


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

dougydee said:


> I don't get how a rider can attack another rider with their front wheel and then have a fist fight after the finish line and the punishment is a fine. And then an incident occurs during the heat of the moment whilst racing and the punishment is DQ.


Because the fight only endangered two riders taking the swings? The act here today was begging for a crash to happen, with the GC hopefuls very close by so they wouldn't get gapped, all their dreams could have come to a crushing end because of one bully on the road.


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

**puts up flame shield**



petalpower said:


> Nope. Me too. Then again, I came from many years of racing motocross and roadracing.
> 
> Rubbing is racing....


Although motorsport can be considered irrelevant, that's somewhat of my reasoning to being open to the behavior: Valentino Rossi's move on Sete Gibernau at Jerez, Prost on Senna at Suzuka - that's racing.

Although I will admit that Renshaw's block on Farrar was dangerous, I don't think the actual intent was to take him out (which he didn't), and Farrar wasn't exactly setting himself in the best position for the sprint or pass. He simply got beat to the position past Renshaw.

I don't encourage foul play, but accept that there's this fine line where over-aggressiveness is acceptable as long as no one's knocked out/injured at the end. I don't think Renshaw actually crossed it. Was he damn close? Yeah. Do I find it to be qualified for a DQ (no pun intended) from the Tour? No. At the end of the day, no one's taken out, and apparently Farrar believed the outcome would've been similar regardless of what Renshaw did (although Farrar himself wasn't happy about it and wouldn't agree with anything else I'm saying).

Another thing to take note of is Stage 1: Cavendish actually took people out. Doesn't matter if it was an accident or on purpose - riders actually went down on the account of his irresponsible handling. And what did Cav get? A time penalty? Not a DQ. Bit of a penalizing inconsistency between these two instances imo, whether it being Renshaw getting too much heat, or Cav getting too little.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Dean crowded Renshaw, he did not assault him, nor did he drive him over. Renshaw's response was so far outside of professional acceptability that he deserved to be relegated, if that weren't enough, he almost took out Farrar intentionally (was blatant, he looked back at him before swerving over) which would have caused damage to many others. He deserved to be booted from the race. It's really a shame because he had a great reputation before this. Hopefully this message will reach all of the other sprinters and teams and they'll get back to racing like grown ups. 

I totally agree about the fist fight earlier, no way the instigator of that should have been alowed to start the next day. The rules are clear on that.


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## LesDiablesRouges (Jul 17, 2009)

so the moral of the story is to smash the guy after ther race with a tire instead of headbutting him in the race ... ok got it.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

boneman said:


> While the headbutting/helmet banging was a dramatic touch, I don't think it was different from the normal argy bargy for big sprint finishes. Dean was trying to move left and force Renshaw to close the door along the barrier, thereby shutting Cav off, and Renshaw was holding his line. If you look at the aerial replay, it's nowhere near as dramatic compared to the frontside shots.
> 
> Sean Kelly who does the color commentary on the Eurosport feed I receive thought Renshaw did an outstanding job in bringing his man to the finish and holding his line. Kelly does know a thing or two about sprinting, both from his racing days and from doing commentary for the last decade.
> 
> ...


Relegation would send the message to lead out men that unsafe sprinting's okay if your charge gets a victory.

Relegating only Renshaw would have been a pointless gesture. Relegating them both--which would effectively put Cav out of the green jersey hunt & give him one less victory--or DQing Renshaw were the only options with any teeth.


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## williethewaiter (Nov 25, 2008)

55x11 said:


> I think kicking him out of the race was a step too far. "head-butting" is a strong word - the sprinters always use head to lean into each other. Renshaw was merely protecting his sprinting line - Dean's surge almost rode him into barriers.
> Blocking Farrar was a bigger deal to me too - it seemed he looked back, and then changed his line, perhaps intentionally blocking Farrar. By that time Farrar should have been on Cav's wheel, though.


"Dean's surge almost rode him into barriers." 

Bollicks. Even contradicted by Renshaw himself.

"Julian came hard in on my position with his elbows. I needed to use my head to retain balance or there would have been a crash. If had used my elbows when Julian brought his elbow on top of mine we would also have crashed. The object was to hold my line and stay upright."
"I only saw open space on my left. I had no idea Tyler Farrar was there. By no means would I ever put any of my fellow riders in danger."


So you only saw open space on your left, but you had to use your head because you were running out of space on your left? hmmm

look at the road markings - Julz was dead straight. Bumping elbows happens between about 20 riders every sprint. Smacking heads does not.


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## chasea (Feb 7, 2009)

I saw it as Dean changing lines and initiating contact as well. Renshaw, in my opinion, overreacted in his response. But it was a defensive response. What did Dean expect, for Renshaw to pull over (ok, he DID pull over :wink5 and roll out a red carpet?

Honestly, I can see both sides of the argument about the DQ. 

But I am as tired of hearing Farrar's excuses as I am of hearing about HTC's foul play.


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## rustybucket (Mar 2, 2009)

HTFU all you Renshaw haters, go back to sipping your latte's after your bunch ride, this is how you ride a bike in a sprint. Yes Renshaws move to cover Farrar on the left was out of order but there is nothing wrong with using your head to hold your line. Ever ridden on the track? A fine maybe but to DQ him? Come on you french cowards are we men or poofs here? Cycling has got too soft in the last 5 years.


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## ilmaestro (May 3, 2008)

The headbutting is one thing, but Renshaw CLEARLY came WAY off his line when he almost ran Farrar into the boards. This was an illegal move - end of story, and that he clearly did it on purpose is enough for me to think he has no business being in the race.


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## PaleAleYum (Jan 12, 2006)

atpjunkie said:


> came into Renshaw's space, Dean is the one not holding a straight line
> Julian Dean instigated the Argy Bargy with a shoulder and an elbow
> Renshaw did what he had to to keep his guy in winning position and stay on his line


Fine, no problem there.



atpjunkie said:


> and my guess is him squeezing Farrar to the barriers was payback for Dean's behavior
> as in 'you mess with me, I'll mess with your boy"


Pretty weaksauce if that what was going through Rensahw's mind.


atpjunkie said:


> should have just relegated him


Or using the above "justification" for intentionally squeezing Farrar, Cav should be cinzanoed in the next sprint by Garmin "for messing with their boy"



atpjunkie said:


> lame call on the DQ


I like Cav a lot, especially after he's shown a bit of humility with those powerful legs. And I put Renshaw up there with the likes of Horner and dare I say Voigt, for being the consummate self-sacrificing teammate. But, while there is a fine line in sprinting,and at the end of the day it should be about the leadout and the legs, not how well your rollerderby skills are. I don't think that Cavendish needs interference to win a sprint. He has the legs.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

motox155 said:


> +2....from the overhead view you can see Dean move over a bit on Renshaw first, then Renshaw headbutt him moving him back on his line...rough racing but nothing really new. When Renshaw saw TF coming up on Cavs wheel he blatently veered over toward him to slow him up. But I do think a DQ is a bit harsh.


+3. The headbutt is a part of sprinting. Trying to crashTyler into the boards is flat out dangerous.

Relagating Renshaw to the back of the pack wouldn't have done a darned thing. Fine him? Ineffective. The DQ is harsh, but it gets the message through.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

rustybucket said:


> HTFU all you Renshaw haters, go back to sipping your latte's after your bunch ride, this is how you ride a bike in a sprint. Yes Renshaws move to cover Farrar on the left was out of order but there is nothing wrong with using your head to hold your line. Ever ridden on the track? A fine maybe but to DQ him? Come on you french cowards are we men or poofs here? Cycling has got too soft in the last 5 years.


I'm not a Renshaw hater. I have a lot of respect for him. But driving Farrar into the barriers is totally out of line. Cav's a talented sprinter. He'll find another way to win.


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## TheDon (Feb 3, 2006)

It's all about driving Farrar into the boards so Cav can win. Maybe Aso needs a rule rewrite so stage winners are punished for what their teammates do cause that was why Renshaw was taken out. There's no other consequential punishment for Renshaw. He doesn't care about a fine or losing points. He's there just to get C.av to the finish first. Renshaw unsportingly knocked out the competition for Cav


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## rustybucket (Mar 2, 2009)

Farrar would not have got near Cav in that sprint.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

rustybucket said:


> Farrar would not have got near Cav in that sprint.


This is the point! Farrar isn't in the same league as Cav (or Pettachi for that matter). So the only tactic Garmin Transvestites have of beating him is to mess up his train. The trouble is, being a bunch of girls they keep failing.  

Having said the above - Renshaw's DQ is probably deserved. He over-reacted to Dean's blatant move and lost the plot.


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## pagey (Oct 30, 2009)

Renshaw just learnt his tactics from the equally dangerous rider - Cavendesh. 
Perhaps they can both go and ride for Euskaltel-Euskade


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## T-Doc (Apr 4, 2002)

lol...


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## mjdwyer23 (Mar 18, 2009)

lol


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## harlond (May 30, 2005)

rustybucket said:


> Farrar would not have got near Cav in that sprint.


So then it's OK to ride him into the barrier.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

I think there are so many ways one can interpret the moves made by all riders involved. Renshaw threw the "second punch" and unfortunately it was overkill. And then swerving way off his line after using his noggin' as a battering ram put the nail in the coffin for him unfortunately. 

Still think it's a shame he was DQ'd. A bit over the top perhaps.

I _loved_ the bunch sprints back in the day; you get a sort of blood in your eye syndrome as the final laps/K's click off. It'll be a less interesting race with Renshaw and Hunter both gone. 

People I know close to Farrar, say he's always been a very mild mannered, polite and laid back personality. Odd for a "sprinter". I think Cav would win in a wheel fight.


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## LWP (Jun 6, 2006)

harlond said:


> So then it's OK to ride him into the barrier.


It's not ok to ride someone into a barrier... but that's not what the officials claimed they were DQing him for. At least in the initial reports, they claimed it was for the head-butting. I haven't read any more on it. I'm not a fanboy of Renshaw or Cavendish, I just think it was a bad call to DQ him. Had it been a less dominant (_in the sprints_) team, I don't think they would have.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Just this minute on Eurosport. 
Sean Kelly (who knows nothing about racing and the Tour) commented that the Tours' *Commissars have a long standing bias against HTC*.


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## Slip Stream (Jul 19, 2002)

Have to agree with all who say the head butt was bad but not terminal. Head butt deserves back of the pack and all points/rewards stripped. The look back and close the door against the barriers at 40+mph was an unbelievably stupid move that deserved "wrath of God" penalties. 

Who would have won the race if Renshaw had not impeded the sprinters? Probably Cav. Who would have come in second? We will never know.

Cavendish now has the opportunity to show the world how fast he truly is.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

moshing for position is not a sin...both riders were giving and getting.

but, it looked like a dangerous cheap shot to radically and intentionally veer into Farrar's line..


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

Dean deserved the head-butting - NBD. But, after that Renshaw's sprint was irregular. Sucks that he got the boot though. WTF does the Tour want, pansy sprints?


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Amen brother*



rustybucket said:


> HTFU all you Renshaw haters, go back to sipping your latte's after your bunch ride, this is how you ride a bike in a sprint. Yes Renshaws move to cover Farrar on the left was out of order but there is nothing wrong with using your head to hold your line. Ever ridden on the track? A fine maybe but to DQ him? Come on you french cowards are we men or poofs here? Cycling has got too soft in the last 5 years.


agreed, agreed and agreed
go spectate a Keirin race sometime


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*yes*



AJL said:


> Dean deserved the head-butting - NBD. But, after that Renshaw's sprint was irregular. Sucks that he got the boot though. WTF does the Tour want, pansy sprints?


little frilly ones


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

AJL said:


> WTF does the Tour want, pansy sprints?


Being in a sprint is risky enough and I think anyone who has ever raced will agree. Renshaw is simply lucky he didn't take out everyone behind him. It's simply bad racing.

Perhaps I'm a touch biased since I saw a lot of riders cutting across the road last weekend and yet and a few people having to be escorted off the field via ambulance. I don't get why there's such glory in crashing or increasing the chances of crashes. I think anyone who has hit the pavement at 20+mph will agree.


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## tenja (Oct 12, 2009)

Renshaw was way out of line. His actions were complete BS. I fully support the DQ. 
I applaud the Garmin team for their poise and calm-headedness after the race.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

*wait, i have seen that head butt move before...*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8tB16JrTiQ


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## MattSoutherden (Jun 24, 2009)

Well, looks like Farrar's bottled it today, so we won't get to see him whupping Cav in the sprints after all...


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## iamnotfilip (Jul 9, 2007)

Am, haven't read all the discussions, but it seemed Dean's only goal was to cut across and disrupt the HTC line and throw them off their rhythm. Farrar wasn't on his wheel at all. It was a total disruptive tactic.

The reason why Renshaw head butted is because Dean was cutting into his line and elbowing him and I imagine it would have been scary to let go of the handlebar with your right arm with 500m to go, just as you are about to start sprinting (he didn't really even get into his sprint, something he even mentioned in a post race interview). So the head butting seamed more as something to draw attention to the fact that Dean was cutting accross to disrupt them. Dean succeeded in this, Cav saw a small break and had to go from 450m out. So having been thrown off their tactic, he cut accross Farrar's path in retaliation. Plain and simple.

Punishment.... I never believe the punishment of a retaliator should exceed that of the instigator. The head buts were more to draw attention to the situation, they didn't have much force in them.

I don't know, just the way I saw it.


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## jorgemonkey (Jun 23, 2006)

mjdwyer23 said:


> lol



I think he just wanted to cuddle!


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

iamnotfilip said:


> Am, haven't read all the discussions, but it seemed Dean's only goal was to cut across and disrupt the HTC line and throw them off their rhythm. Farrar wasn't on his wheel at all. It was a total disruptive tactic.
> 
> The reason why Renshaw head butted is because Dean was cutting into his line and elbowing him and I imagine it would have been scary to let go of the handlebar with your right arm with 500m to go, just as you are about to start sprinting (he didn't really even get into his sprint, something he even mentioned in a post race interview). So the head butting seamed more as something to draw attention to the fact that Dean was cutting accross to disrupt them. Dean succeeded in this, Cav saw a small break and had to go from 450m out. So having been thrown off their tactic, he cut accross Farrar's path in retaliation. Plain and simple.
> 
> ...


You are not alone. That's how I saw it too.


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## rustybucket (Mar 2, 2009)

harlond said:


> So then it's OK to ride him into the barrier.


No it's not ok to ride him into the barrier. I don't think he knew that Farrar was there. From the above replay it looks as though Renshaw is trying to get on Cav's wheel and didn't know that Farrar was there. Renshaw has never had any type of disciplinary action against him for dangerous riding.


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