# Steel frame



## fux (Apr 25, 2008)

I`m looking for a steel road frame I can use on crits and touring races. I`m 5.7` 155lbs.

I`m thinking in the price range of $1000-1500.

I dont need custom as a 520-530 top tube suits me fine. I have fired off an email to vicious cycles to ask about a price and I realy prefer the classic flat top-tube look.

I`m a mountain biker but there are quite a few road races where I live that are good for training, hence my poor knowledge of road bikes.

The reason for steel is because I like mordern classics. I`ve had a few problems with my carbon road frame but just love my steel CX and MTB.

Cheers,
Rob


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

not much production steel these days... but there are the gunnars, surlys, konas, and somas of the world


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

fux said:


> I`m looking for a steel road frame I can use on crits and touring races. I`m 5.7` 155lbs.
> 
> I`m thinking in the price range of $1000-1500.
> 
> ...


Not to sound like a broken record, but if you like classic looking steel, why not just go with a classic? just about any steel frame with 130 spacing will fit modern components.

If it was me and I had that kind of a budget, I'd get a vintage steel frame- for a grand you could get something pretty special.

otherwise, GVH has a merckx corsa extra in 7-11 colors for $1600...


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

What the heck is a "Touring Race"?!?

BTW Gunnar might fit the bill.


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## Comer (Jan 13, 2009)

I agree with FTF, I'd get a gunnar or a kona, though I don't know if Kona sell framesets?!

I like buck's suggestion as well(since we're not in the political forum, lol). 

Seriously, I've owned some nice steel frames over the years, Serotta and Brodie were my favorites.


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## lancezneighbor (May 4, 2002)

Masi has some nice steel bikes


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

A chime for the many vintage frames left hanging in garages world wide because they are out of fashion now. For a couple hundred, you can pick-up what was a top shelf frame back in the day and build it with some nice components.


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## vanjr (Sep 15, 2005)

salsa has a steel one as well


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

check out reparto corse http://store.nexternal.com/shared/S...reType=BtoC&Count1=416713893&Count2=333854317 they have some close outs that worth looking at. or you can get a custom for around $900 at Proletariat bikes http://theproletariatbicycleco.com/index.html


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## Schneiderguy (Jan 9, 2005)

You might be able to pick up a Tesch. If you search under the classics forum you can find a discussion of Tesch. If you PM me I have an article at home in which one of the top builders discusses Tesch, or goggle his name "David Tesch". He died about 5 years ago. I have a 1990 Tesch 101 which is lugged. He made about 500 of these. He also made about 700 of a TIG model.
Tesch raced track. His road bikes were made for crits and short road races. Not a bike to ride a century on. The bottom bracket it high. The wheel base is sort. The chain stays are short. All the angles are steep. The bike is very, very stiff. Basically a tract design but built for gears and brakes. It flys through corners. It holds a line very well. It is really quick handling but not twitchy. It will survive about any crash while racing short of a vehicle hitting it. The bike always came out in better shape than me. I still have mine. My son raced crits on it for the past two seasons in the Austin Drive Way series-lots of great turns as it is a race car track.


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

FatTireFred said:


> not much production steel these days... *but there are the gunnars, surlys, konas, and somas of the world*



And many more.


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## minstrie (Jun 13, 2005)

*Mercian?*

I'm partial to Carl Strong, but if you're looking for classic at a decent price (as long as the dollar is weak to the pound), check out Mercian Cycles (since 1946) at www.merciancycles.com. Anything from track bike to loaded tourer, choice of tubesets, nice paint, custom if you want. You're looking at 670 pounds or so last check (that's British money, not weight) for frame and fork, which I think translates to between $800 to $1000. Wait time for custom is 4-5 months, but if you'll fit an off the peg frame in stock, you could have it in a week or two. You'd pay additional for shipping, probably $200 for Fedex overseas. Agree if you can find a frame/fork that fits and you like at GVH, that'd be the ticket. Curtlo steel would be another option (do a RBR search). I've dealt with Strong (premo), Tom at GVH, and am in line for a Mercian, and got some good communication with Curtlo though didn't order from him.
Minstrie.


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## garbec (Mar 3, 2006)

*Torelli Nitro Express*

I believe they are a few dollars above your price range and retail around $1700, but I can tell you that for me, it rocks for a crit bike. Mine is built from Columbus Spirit Tubing and has a 1-1/8th diameter head tube so I can use a modern fork. Built up with my Sram bits and race wheels, it comes in at 16.25 lbs.. 50cm frame = 53.0 Top Tube.
My previous race bike was a Cannondale, which was great. I've ridden my carbon frame in some crit's and tend to like it more for road racing. I took the Torelli to an early season race that I was using for training, not really thinking about making this one of my main race bikes, and was completely impressed with how well it worked and how much fun I had... The bike hooked up great in the corners and was very stable through them.. I've raced it three times since and find myself coming out of the races with a big grin on my face..
It's not the lightest or stiffest machine out there, so it might not be the most efficient, but it gives you great road feedback and tons of confidence in the turns..

Good luck with your search..


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## sscooterguy (Jun 20, 2008)

You can get a modern steel production frame for decent pricing with correct wheel spacing for modern 700c wheels and brakes. Check out Kona, Salsa, and even Bianchi. If you're willing and know your exact sizing, check out Ebay for steel frames/full builds. I've recently seen BEAUTIFUL new Kona Kapu (last year's gorgeous orange) go for $3-400. 

Also know that you may crash in crits...so if you build a beautiful steel bike that you're unwilling to see go down, consider that too. There are plenty of sweet aluminum frames for great prices too. When I start racing hopefully this summer, I'm going to race my old Giant OCR aluminum frame.


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

buck-50 said:


> Not to sound like a broken record, but if you like classic looking steel, why not just go with a classic? just about any steel frame with 130 spacing will fit modern components.
> 
> If it was me and I had that kind of a budget, I'd get a vintage steel frame- for a grand you could get something pretty special.
> 
> otherwise,* GVH has a merckx corsa extra in 7-11 colors for $1600*...


SSSSHHHHH !!!


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

ClassicSteel71 said:


> SSSSHHHHH !!!


It's not my size, what do I care?


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## rdolson (Sep 2, 2003)

Soma Speedster! 

Bike Tires Direct has a frame and fork for like $750. They look sweet and classic.


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

Ionic has some nice looking steel frames too in a nonsloping geometry for just a little over $1,000.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

cdhbrad said:


> Ionic has some nice looking steel frames too in a nonsloping geometry for just a little over $1,000.




ionic = dean, but hopefully w/ better service


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

If your taste favors level top tubes, I'd be looking for a used mid-nineties frame that has 130mm rear dropout spacing and OS tubing. I just picked up this NOS 54cm 1994 Waterford Paramount frameset in Reynolds 753 OS for $535 on eBay, and am building it up with 11-speed Chorus for a riding buddy.


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

Scooper said:



> If your taste favors level top tubes, I'd be looking for a used mid-nineties frame that has 130mm rear dropout spacing and OS tubing. I just picked up this NOS 54cm 1994 Waterford Paramount frameset in Reynolds 753 OS for $535 on eBay, and am building it up with 11-speed Chorus for a riding buddy.


Nice find! I'm hoping to get lucky like that one day.:thumbsup:


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

Peanya said:


> Nice find! I'm hoping to get lucky like that one day.:thumbsup:


Thanks. I got lucky as there was some spirited bidding at the last minute.


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## jeffreyg (Nov 23, 2005)

I was going to say Yamaguchi, but he just raised his prices

$1700 for an Aero road and $1800 for a Team USA


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

There's a W'ford 2200 (853) on eBay as we speak...
http://cgi.ebay.com/58-cm-WATERFORD-2200-Frame-Fork_W0QQitemZ330316354181QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRoad_Bikes?hash=item330316354181&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50

According to the seller it has had a tube replaced and factory repaint, it's 853 tubing.

Dean


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## fux (Apr 25, 2008)

WOW!

Thanks for the replies fellas. Over here we call races that you don`t need an elite lisence "touring races", the most popular ones are anything from 210-550km long. 

Normaly you can decide a time you want to do it in and join the respected group accordingly. This means that the pro/elite ride thier own race at the front without spoiling it for "touring" bunch who normaly use 6 to 9 hours on a typical 210km race.

Anyway back to the frames..



> otherwise, GVH has a merckx corsa extra in 7-11 colors for $1600


What is gvh? gotta link, please?

Salsa.... Now however much I love my la-cruz, the pistola is plain Fugely! 
Soma.... looks heavy (but nice)
Masi.... I thought the steel was track only (no delaliur hanger)
Kona.. nope


Otherwise I`m brousing through the links that have been posted and there is a lot of nice bikes to choose from. 

Thanks, so far.


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## fux (Apr 25, 2008)

garbec said:


> I believe they are a few dollars above your price range and retail around $1700, but I can tell you that for me, it rocks for a crit bike. Mine is built from Columbus Spirit Tubing and has a 1-1/8th diameter head tube so I can use a modern fork. Built up with my Sram bits and race wheels, it comes in at 16.25 lbs.. 50cm frame = 53.0 Top Tube.
> My previous race bike was a Cannondale, which was great. I've ridden my carbon frame in some crit's and tend to like it more for road racing. I took the Torelli to an early season race that I was using for training, not really thinking about making this one of my main race bikes, and was completely impressed with how well it worked and how much fun I had... The bike hooked up great in the corners and was very stable through them.. I've raced it three times since and find myself coming out of the races with a big grin on my face..
> It's not the lightest or stiffest machine out there, so it might not be the most efficient, but it gives you great road feedback and tons of confidence in the turns..
> 
> Good luck with your search..


That looks spot on.

What have they done to the decals?


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## fux (Apr 25, 2008)

Does anyone know anything about these?

http://www.velocebikes.com/spiritR8.htm


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

fux said:


> WOW!
> 
> What is gvh? gotta link, please?


http://www.gvhbikes.com/

Click on frame inventory. I think if you click on the "size" header, the page will resort by size.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

fux said:


> Does anyone know anything about these?
> 
> http://www.velocebikes.com/spiritR8.htm


Scapin, an Italian, was building in the 80s, the same bikes as Colnago and DeRosa: same tubing, same lugs, same geometries, sold in the USA for crit racing, as were all Italian frames of that era, with steep angles and quick handling. The best rider of our group had a Scapin and loved it. He used to smoke us regularly on it.

Those guys knew what they were doing in '85. They probably still know what they're doing! 
:thumbsup:
Get one. Show 'em how it's done!


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)




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## george kraushaar (Jan 15, 2007)

Look for a 90s era Paramount on Ebay. Some were made in the Waterford factory and some in Japan by Panasonic. Both are very good. They look to "buy it now" for $400-500.
I have a Waterford built Paramount from that era and its as fast as my Gunnar or DeRosa.
Such bikes are literally works of art, the culmination of many years of development. They last forever and leave you fresh after 40 miles of bad road.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

cmg said:


> check out reparto corse http://store.nexternal.com/shared/S...reType=BtoC&Count1=416713893&Count2=333854317 they have some close outs that worth looking at. or you can get a custom for around $900 at Proletariat bikes http://theproletariatbicycleco.com/index.html


Ed at Reparto Corse is awesome to deal with, if he has something you find appealing.


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## garbec (Mar 3, 2006)

Two things with the decals, I wasn't fond of the World Champ Stripes so I requested them to be snipped off prior to installation. Also, steel can be repaired if damaged... The top tube was creased while shipping the bike, beyond the point of being blocked and rolled out. I sent the bike to Tom Kellogg in Pennsylvania and he did an outstanding repair by replacing the top tube and did a beautiful job of stripping the frame and repainting it. The replacement decal set was sans the "Nitro" in the TT Nitro Express logo and did not come with the Columbus Spirit logo. I was so happy to get it back, I wasn't going to worried about exact logo replacement.

I should post a photo of the latest incarnation with the Sram Red and Race wheels....


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## TBro (Jan 19, 2007)

*Steel Frame*

Smartcycles.com has a lot of steel frame options, and the site I really like is run by Geoff Burgess in Hungary. He has an unbelievable selection of Vintage Italian steel. His NOS Coppi frames start at $350.00 plus $60 shipping to the US and go up from there. He doesn't post prices on his website, but he responds to your emails right away. I posted the link below. 

http://www.matuzmaster.hu/en/

TBro


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## fux (Apr 25, 2008)

Thanks for that link.

If I decide to go for a "real" classic, what should I be looking for if was to fit modern components? 

Someone mentioned 130mm spacing, what about cablestops and bb threads?


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## casioqv (Sep 28, 2008)

fux said:


> Thanks for that link.
> 
> If I decide to go for a "real" classic, what should I be looking for if was to fit modern components?
> 
> Someone mentioned 130mm spacing, what about cablestops and bb threads?


Spacing doesn't matter much with steel since it's so flexible. You can put a 130mm wheel in an old 126mm frame without problems since it's only 2mm of flex on each side!

Bolt on cablestops can be purchased to put modern shifters on a frame designed for downtubes, and they look really nice. A lot of old frames already had them installed, for stem shifters.

BB threads should be the same as modern ones on most frames, especially japanese ones.

Generally it's a little more work to update and old frame, but well worth it. Here is a 70s Centurion I restored/updated for my wife with a newer 8speed/triple drivetrain:










This frame has 126 spacing, but the 130mm wheel fit fine. I had to modify an old derailer into a cable stop just under the front derailer, but otherwise everything bolted right on.


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## fux (Apr 25, 2008)

Wow, that sure is purdy. Lucky wife.


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## fux (Apr 25, 2008)

ClassicSteel71 said:


>


I cant get that colnago out of my head either....

Thank you for the help guys. It looks like I am going to wait and save!

This shows that even thogh steel maybe a niche, there some fantastic steel bikes still out there.

That Mercks Corsa Extra, is super sexy.

I have to say that I am torn between a classic, classic and a retro classic. Is it hard to pick up italian thread BB`s that dont weigh a tonn?

At the moment i`m looking around e-bay for something small enough, although I woudn`t realy grumble at one of these.










I`ve found a shop in the UK that is selling the master x for £1130 pluss shipping and norwegian vat https://www.slanecycles.co.uk/productdetail.aspx?id=3490&subid=334&catid=72

With the pound and the dollar as they are now, I only need a couple more months to be able to afford one of these or maybe even this.. https://www.theoldbikeshop.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=B&Product_Code=SFCMXL_LX11&Category_Code=SFS

But is it worth the difference in $$ compared to a vintage frame?

Hmm...


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## TBro (Jan 19, 2007)

*Steel Frame*



fux said:


> Thanks for that link.
> 
> If I decide to go for a "real" classic, what should I be looking for if was to fit modern components?
> 
> Someone mentioned 130mm spacing, what about cablestops and bb threads?


As casioqv mentioned, you shouldn't have any problem putting together a retro/modern classic. If you go with an Italian frame, you could pick up a nice 10 speed Campy Centaur groupo with Alloy Ergo shifters for an all chrome look. If you want to be period correct, there is always ebay, but vintage Campy parts go for a premium and are rarely in full group sets. The Master X-Light is a beautiful frame, but there are also a lot of vintage NOS frames out there that are a much better value in my opinion. Had I not found a great deal on a gently used Marinoni on ebay, I was seriously considering this De Rosa from Geoff's site. I'm not sure if you can see it, but the dark blue is actually flecked on the rest of the frame for a really cool effect. Price is $945 with Columbus Genius tubing. If you want a high quality lugged steel frame, there are very few you will find at this price point.


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## fux (Apr 25, 2008)

Funny you mentioned that one because ive been looking at this little frame on the site..










It would fit me like a glove



> DeRosa Batik EL frameset: beautifully constructed steel frame from the legendary Italian craftsman, Ugo DeRosa. 1999 model, Batik team paint scheme, made from Columbus EL tubeset, with differential tube diameters, NOS, High quality, matching steel fork included. Size: seat tube (C-C): 50 cm, top tube (C-C): 51.5 cm, frame weight: 1740 gr, fork: 614 gr. Head tube: 95 mm, Dropout: 100/130 mm, seat tube diameter: 27,2, BB: Italian


Like I said before I would like to use modern componments and race it. Maybe building it up as a second bike in the future with classic componments...


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## TBro (Jan 19, 2007)

*Steel Frame*

Here is my Marinoni Special that I picked up for $415.00 on ebay. It's not NOS, but you wouldn't know it by looking at it. I'm definitely looking forward to building this one up.


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## fux (Apr 25, 2008)

Gorgeous. Nice find.


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## JM714 (Jan 22, 2004)

no one has mentioned curtlo, less than a grand for custom. curtlo.com


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## curriergroh (Jan 11, 2009)

I was in a similar situation and decided on an '09 Bianchi Vigorelli.


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## roadie_490 (Jun 11, 2004)

Check out True North Cycles. Custom geo steel bikes start at $1400.00 cnd, and with the exchange rate in your favour, it is an even better bargan.

http://www.truenorthcycles.com/faq/


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## fux (Apr 25, 2008)

I have already looked at True North. (I actualy prefer the look of the Proletriat bikes)

My heart seems pretty set on a classic Italian frame and I have made contact with Geoff in Hungary to see what he can reccomend.

The bummer is that the DeRossa Batic EL, which would fit me like a glove has been sold!

 

There is a fella from germany on ebay selling som killer bikes for not so killer prices but go and have a look if you like classics.. https://stores.ebay.com/benny1benny_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ0QQftidZ2QQpZ2QQtZkm


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## Quattro_Assi_07 (Jan 13, 2006)

*Retro-mod Miyata Team...*

My "new" 1990 Miyata Team with 10 speed 7700 Dura Ace components.
























and with it's older cousins...


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## TBro (Jan 19, 2007)

*steel frame*

What frame size do you need?





fux said:


> I have already looked at True North. (I actualy prefer the look of the Proletriat bikes)
> 
> My heart seems pretty set on a classic Italian frame and I have made contact with Geoff in Hungary to see what he can reccomend.
> 
> ...


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## fux (Apr 25, 2008)

I`m looking for 50-52, something with a (virtual) top tube around 515-530 and prefrably light......


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

fux said:


> I`m looking for 50-52, something with a (virtual) top tube around 515-530 and prefrably light......


eBay is filled with excellent new/used steel frames.

you can narrow your search to steel frames in size 50,51, and 52 size...I do it everyday just to see what's out there...

check out this link..I already filtered the search for you

http://sporting-goods.shop.ebay.com...=1&_sacat=98084&_ssov=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

My Colnago is a 50cm with about 400 miles (mint) on it.. Make an offer if your interested.


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## TBro (Jan 19, 2007)

*steel frame*

Dave's right about ebay. For your frame size there are probably some good options. Hopefully the competition in your size won't be as bad. The demand for high quality vintage Italian frames in a 54 or 55 always seemed to drive the prices up to almost "new frame" levels. I will search some of the sites I had looked at before and send you any deals I find. 




fux said:


> I`m looking for 50-52, something with a (virtual) top tube around 515-530 and prefrably light......


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## fux (Apr 25, 2008)

thanx for the help fella`s.

I am considering the Fausto Coppi Genius "Championissimo" 










Now the jury is still out on the seatstay placement, but at 1500g and a good price I might be able to live with it.

Does anyone have any history regarding these frames?


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## TBro (Jan 19, 2007)

I think that is a beautiful frame, even if the seat stay is little bit lower on the seat tube. Coppi's are beautiful frames and I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger on that one. I do have one other frame you should consider. This Cinelli Super Corsa in China Blue with the Chrome lugs is absolutely gorgeous. 50cm frame with a 52cm top tube. I would contact Tom at GVHbikes.com via phone to see if he still has it. He doesn't always respond very quickly to email. For $1100, I think it's a nice find for a new frame. 


















fux said:


> thanx for the help fella`s.
> 
> I am considering the Fausto Coppi Genius "Championissimo"
> 
> ...


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## garbec (Mar 3, 2006)

*Dressed up for race day.....*

The Torelli's latest set up w/ race wheels...


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## fux (Apr 25, 2008)

Thats a nice build. :thumbsup: 

It looks like the Moser frame would fit too.










I`m not sure what the difference between the coppi Genius superlight tubeset and the moser slx tubeset.

I have unfortunaley bought myself some time by twisting my knee and buggerd my meniscus when I jumped out of the shower on friday.


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## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

fux said:


> Thats a nice build. :thumbsup:
> 
> It looks like the Moser frame would fit too.
> 
> ...


They are both great tubing sets, Genius is a newer tubing, and for you I would recommend that over SLX. Toomanybikes has one of those Coppi's in Genius and he loves the ride, and he knows bikes as well as anyone (he has enough of them, for sure). You should PM him, he is travelling back to Canada now, but he will be helpful, as he also has a long history with SLX. THat De Rosa you commented on earlier is VERY hard to ignore. You will NEVER be disappointed in a De Rosa IMO. Sorry about the injury, I stopped showering just for that reason...:eek6: 

b21


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

I found a bought this bike last year, for only $70.

It was in almost perfect shape, very well mantained, or probably used very little.

Sporting, Columbus tubing, full Shimano 105 ( 1050 group ) all 105, including, hubs, pedals, headset and seatpost. 

Recently I got interested on building me a steel touring bike, like some beautiful ones I have seen posted here, retro looking but well equiped and with lots of Brooks leather.

So I went to the shops to look for a beautiful steel frame.

I found a shop, where the single-speed retro hipsters go.

They had a frame, identical to my "sporting" bike's, identical colors, only without the decals.

The price was $700, for the frame and fork only .-  

I am loving my sporting bike much more since then


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## abracadabra (Aug 17, 2008)

Co-Motion make some of the best steel bikes and are definitely worth checking out:
http://www.co-motion.com/single_bikes/single_bikes.html

They look nice too and come in multiple colors.

The Nor'Wester is basically a cross between a road/tour bike.
Good luck with whatever you choose!
-William


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## fux (Apr 25, 2008)

Hi, thanx again.

Unfortunatly the DeRosa has been sold.


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## TBro (Jan 19, 2007)

*Steel Frame*

Well,

It seems you have a passion for Red frames anyways so maybe missing out on the Super Corsa isn't a bad thing. You mentioned wanting to race the frame you decide on. I'm not sure what type of racing you compete in, but have you thought about doing a hybrid steel/carbon to save some weight and still get that great feel of steel? GVH has a really nice Viner in your size and color. A lot of the frames I have been suggesting are more show pieces with great lug work and craftsmanship. Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable racing with one of those frames because I would be too afraid to get it all scratched up. Here are the details on the Viner which I have heard nothing but good things about. 50cm frame with a 52cm top tube. Carbon seat stay and fork, Dedacciai EOM 16.5 lightweight tubing. $1000.00 

I do like the Moser you have your eye on better than the Coppi because of the chrome accents. 














fux said:


> Hi, thanx again.
> 
> Unfortunatly the DeRosa has been sold.


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## roadie_490 (Jun 11, 2004)

Has this Gios come up???

http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?...+without+Fork&vendorCode=GIOS&major=1&minor=1


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

The Gios Compact pro is a fabulous bike. You can believe the reviews at the Excel Sports site. While you're looking take a gander at the chrome steel fork:

https://www.excelsports.com/new.asp...rk+Threadless&vendorCode=GIOS&major=1&minor=3


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## fux (Apr 25, 2008)

Actualy, the Gios was one of the first frames to turn up over on thr Norwegian mtb forum https://terrengsykkel.no/ubb/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=699545#Post699545

Its in hurdy gurdy, but these are the bike some of the guys in Norway have.....



















This one, although not lugges has been owned for quite a few years and has just come back from a re-paint..




























:thumbsup: 

The reason why I first said no to the Gios was because i`m not a fan of the sliders. Is that just me being silly?


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## fux (Apr 25, 2008)

TBro said:


> Well,
> 
> It seems you have a passion for Red frames anyways so maybe missing out on the Super Corsa isn't a bad thing. You mentioned wanting to race the frame you decide on. I'm not sure what type of racing you compete in, but have you thought about doing a hybrid steel/carbon to save some weight and still get that great feel of steel? GVH has a really nice Viner in your size and color. A lot of the frames I have been suggesting are more show pieces with great lug work and craftsmanship. Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable racing with one of those frames because I would be too afraid to get it all scratched up. Here are the details on the Viner which I have heard nothing but good things about. 50cm frame with a 52cm top tube. Carbon seat stay and fork, Dedacciai EOM 16.5 lightweight tubing. $1000.00
> 
> I do like the Moser you have your eye on better than the Coppi because of the chrome accents.


Hi TBro, a carbon fork is fine but I want a full steel frame although have have been given a deal on a De Rosa titanium which might put a quick end to my search.

I`ll keep you all up to date if the deal goes through.....


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## dd74 (Aug 2, 2007)

Fux - I'd go with the Coppi. Beautiful seat stays, if not different. It'll definitely get some conversation in the pack, and I'm sure with the stays as they are, the wheelbase is very tight and the bike overall very fast. 










Have you talked with Geoff about this yet. I assume you found it on his website, right? I tried calling and emailing him, but he's hard to get hold of.


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

Scooper said:


> If your taste favors level top tubes, I'd be looking for a used mid-nineties frame that has 130mm rear dropout spacing and OS tubing. I just picked up this NOS 54cm 1994 Waterford Paramount frameset in Reynolds 753 OS for $535 on eBay, and am building it up with 11-speed Chorus for a riding buddy.


I like your choice. I picked up a 1995 Waterford 1200 in 753 a few years ago. I had it repainted and it sports a Campy Daytona 10 sp group with Zonda wheels. Total cost was under $1,800 if I remember. The wheels were the most expensive part. The 27.4mm seatpost the hardest to find though.


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## fux (Apr 25, 2008)

dd74 said:


> Fux - I'd go with the Coppi. Beautiful seat stays, if not different. It'll definitely get some conversation in the pack, and I'm sure with the stays as they are, the wheelbase is very tight and the bike overall very fast.
> 
> Have you talked with Geoff about this yet. I assume you found it on his website, right? I tried calling and emailing him, but he's hard to get hold of.


Geoff has already answerd a couple of emails over the weekend. He says the genius frame is in stock in black but he can get hold of white within a couple of weeks.


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## boneman (Nov 26, 2001)

*Go with the Coppi*

I ride a 50-51ctc frame, weigh about 59kg and out of what you've shown, the Coppi's the one. I've bought from Geoff before and he's the real deal. I've had steel in Columbus SL, SLX, TSX, MS, Genius, ELOS, Tecnos 2000 and Gilco and rate Genius near the top of that bunch.

Not included are a Marinnoni Giro custom of TSX, single speed and non-steel rides.

Gios Torino 1975- owned since new but resprayed due to bad paint and before resto and retro became popular.

Davidson Challenger- 531

Pinarello Gavia- TSX- since sold

Merckx Corsa- SLX

Merckx Genius- Genius

Merckx Corsa- 753

Corrado Custom- Deda SAT 14.5

Colnago Tecnos- Tecnos 2000

Colnago Master Olympic- Gilco

Kalavinka Custom- ECO

Basso Astra- ELOS

Basso Ascot- MS

Basso Ascot- MS

3Rensho- Ishiwata

SLX is a nice tubeset but I rate Genius, EL and ELOS above SLX, at least in my size and weight. I never have taken a liking to TSX despite owning two including a custom and my most recent steel is the Deda SAT 14.5 which is nowhere near current state of the art. But again, I've bought many of these used over the years which makes for better value. The Coppi in Genius is good value and an excellent riding bike.



fux said:


> Geoff has already answerd a couple of emails over the weekend. He says the genius frame is in stock in black but he can get hold of white within a couple of weeks.


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## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

Boneman, you have an unbelieveable collection but everytime I see that 753 in that beautiful color I cannot take my eyes off of it. It's like a piece of fine jewelry. If we were the same size I fear that I would be stalking you......

b21


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## Reparto (Apr 25, 2007)

Picked up the frame used for a obscenely low price. Just gotta find the right guy dumping the right size.


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## boneman (Nov 26, 2001)

*I hear ya*

A couple have come up since but they've been 55 or smaller.



barry1021 said:


> Boneman, you have an unbelieveable collection but everytime I see that 753 in that beautiful color I cannot take my eyes off of it. It's like a piece of fine jewelry. If we were the same size I fear that I would be stalking you......
> 
> b21


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## boneman (Nov 26, 2001)

*Or out of fashion*

Supply and demand.

For instance, Colnago Master and the many permutations generally don't sell for less than $750 used. I got the Tecnos NOS for $500. In your size, the Tecnos, either original with ELOS or newer with Tecnos 2000 tubing is an excellent choice and reasonably priced.

The Merckx Corsa was bought in the UK for under $300. The 753 for less than most Merckx MXL's which are incredibly popular. It wasn't that long ago that steel Merckx's were reasonably priced but now..........

The Basso's all under $500. Those are all F & F prices and these are extremely well built with possibly the best corrosion treatment of small frame builders in the market. 

The 3Rensho Katana almost as pictured except for different wheels was $600. #Rensho's an odd one. The keirin frames generally command silly prices but the road frame pricing is all over the place, from $250 to $1,500 and there are not that many. 

One extremely good value is Lemond frames. Mostly made by Trek, they are extremely good value, excellent geometry and good handling. I have a steel 853 Zurich and a carbon/True temper spine bike and find them to be really cheap and excellent riding machines. No bling factor but who cares.......

Market arbitrage is they key at this point for nice steel frames.



Reparto said:


> Picked up the frame used for a obscenely low price. Just gotta find the right guy dumping the right size.


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## fux (Apr 25, 2008)

Is it me or did this thread suddenly turn pornographic??

 

Thanks for the info on the different steels, im pretty cluless on what works on road frames.

Geoff seems like a good guy so it looks like I will be buying from him.


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

boneman said:


> Supply and demand.


+1 on that- last year I got a beautiful serotta SLX frame for about $150, this year I got a Debernardi SLX for about the same. 

Big trick is finding really good framebuilders who've fallen out of favor...


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## fux (Apr 25, 2008)

Thanks again for you`r help fellas.

I ended up pulling the plug on a 94 NOS DeRosa Titanio in yellow from Geoff.

I`ll post some pictures when it turnes up.

Can`t wait!


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## fux (Apr 25, 2008)

It should be here within a week or 2...


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## roadie_490 (Jun 11, 2004)

so you ended up going Ti after all of that???

http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/frames-and-forks/frames/de-rosa/PRD_29499_2493crx.aspx


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## fux (Apr 25, 2008)

Yes.

I wasn`t looking for ti but I narrowed my choice down to something Italian, classic,steel and a good fit.

I thought 3 out of 4 wasn`t too bad and the ride of ti is similar to steel so why not?


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

cs1 said:


> I like your choice. I picked up a 1995 Waterford 1200 in 753 a few years ago. I had it repainted and it sports a Campy Daytona 10 sp group with Zonda wheels. Total cost was under $1,800 if I remember. The wheels were the most expensive part. The 27.4mm seatpost the hardest to find though.


Thanks. It's built up now with 11-speed Chorus and Zonda wheels.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

As Jack King, owner of the Ford dealership in Tyler, TX, used to say, "You're gonna love it!" :biggrin5:

Derosa, Pegoretti, and to a lesser extent, Colnago and Merckx, have cult followings. Their bikes are magic carpet rides. They do everything superbly well. :thumbsup: Give us some more porn when it's built up. Love those engraved cranks.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

fux said:


> Yes.
> 
> I wasn`t looking for ti but I narrowed my choice down to something Italian, classic,steel and a good fit.
> 
> I thought 3 out of 4 wasn`t too bad and the ride of ti is similar to steel so why not?


Ti is slightly lighter than steel, so it soaks up road buzz a bit quicker. It's slightly greater "modulus of elasticity" (flexibility), is compensated for in the DeRosa frame with slightly oversized tubes.

Evgeny Berzin and another Gewiss team mate name escapes me, were cleaning up in the early 90s on DeRosa titanium bikes, winning everything. They were later caught doping, but hey, the bikes had alot to do with it too!


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## fux (Apr 25, 2008)

As the story goes.... they won just about everything worth winning on the Derosa titanio in 94.

I can`t wait to get it. I`m like a kid waiting for christmas!


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## dd74 (Aug 2, 2007)

I was looking at that very frame (the DeRosa). I instead bought a Paramount-Serotta Ti, one reason because it came with Dura-Ace and was considerably less than the naked DeRosa.


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## holy cromoly (Nov 9, 2008)

Wow. These are all such beautiful steel bikes and frames that are posted.

Can't go wrong with any of them.


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## dd74 (Aug 2, 2007)

Yes, nice indeed.


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## j-dogg (Feb 19, 2009)

VERY nice choice on that De Rosa. You're gonna love it  

I was going to recommend either a De Rosa, Masi or an old-school Ciocc SLX.


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## fux (Apr 25, 2008)

Thanx for the reasuring words.

I didn`t go too far off the bat as the fork is in SLX.

:thumbsup: 

I ended up buying a vintage campa aero seatpost and a campa headset. The rest of the parts are comming of my carbon Pennerola (RIP). 










I`ll post some pics of the build when it gets here.


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## rook (Apr 5, 2009)

Um, thanks for sneaking that titanium frame into a thread about steel frames.  LOL. But anyways... Wow! That De Rosa is one nice looking yellow bike. Tell us more. What's it weigh? Is it single or double-butted? And what are the tube diameters?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Get a custom Marinoni and get it made just how you want it. Probably for under a grand.


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## fux (Apr 25, 2008)

rook said:


> Um, thanks for sneaking that titanium frame into a thread about steel frames.  LOL. But anyways... Wow! That De Rosa is one nice looking yellow bike. Tell us more. What's it weigh? Is it single or double-butted? And what are the tube diameters?



The only diameter I know is the seat tube @27.2  

Frame weight is 1280g. Not bad for a 10-11 year old frame.  










I havn`t seen it yet but according to tracking service it should be at my house tomorrow noon.


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## dd74 (Aug 2, 2007)

Fux - you're going to love it. My Ti ride feels to be right in between steel and fiberglass. Not as forgiving as my steel Colnago, but you really feel the road - in a good way. Watch out though! Ti bikes are not like steel in weight. Mine absolutely flies uphill and descends much faster than I thought. You could get yourself in considerable trouble if you're not careful. :>


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## fux (Apr 25, 2008)

That sounds like fun!

Being without a road bike at this time of year sucks so waiting for the parts to arrive is excrutiating!


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## dd74 (Aug 2, 2007)

Fux - if you live in L.A., we should go out for a ride. Compare notes, etc.


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## rook (Apr 5, 2009)

fux said:


> The only diameter I know is the seat tube @27.2
> 
> Frame weight is 1280g. Not bad for a 10-11 year old frame.
> 
> ...



Ahhh classic ti! Evgeni Berzin rode a titanium De Rosa back in the mid 90s. Pretty frame. Single color. Simple. Clean lines. I like it! Is that a 1" headset? What size frame is that?


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## fux (Apr 25, 2008)

Yes, 1 inch threaded and size is 51cm.

I live in Norway.


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## dd74 (Aug 2, 2007)

fux said:


> I live in Norway.


Well, maybe we can meet half-way.


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## kannas (Feb 7, 2004)

What is cromoly "pg three nine" or "pg39"?
Its on a lugged takara prestige frame... wall spec perhaps?.
I am having trouble sourcing information on the tubing.


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## aloonda (Jul 28, 2012)

fux said:


> [/IMG]


what kind of bars are those?


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## serfur1 (Sep 17, 2007)

Be patient, narrow down what you're looking for and keep searching ebay. I just finished building up a Battaglin two weeks ago with an ebay frame. I don't ride carbon (well, I do like carbon forks.  )


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