# Campagnolo Record vs Sram Force 22



## xsalirx (Dec 19, 2013)

I've a Campy Athena from 2013, And I was going to change it for a 2015 Campy Record but then I "discovered" that the Sram Force is almost the same weight and half the price and that means I can buy a lighter wheels with the same money.

What is you opinion about the two groups.

Thanks


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## masont (Feb 6, 2010)

Record won't make you any faster, and Force22 is a fine group, but you get what you pay for. It sounds like you're concerned with value, so Force22 is probably the right group. Record is much nicer in terms of feel and finish, in my opinion.


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## CrankyCarbon (Dec 17, 2014)

Check out the SRAM and see if you like the way that it shifts.
You might as well check out Shimano too while you are at it.
Then figure out what you like (or don't like) about the Campy shifting in comparison.

And if you want to save some money you can look at Chorus instead of Record as you don't lose much at all except save some money.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

xsalirx said:


> I've a Campy Athena from 2013, And I was going to change it for a 2015 Campy Record but then I "discovered" that the Sram Force is almost the same weight and half the price and that means I can buy a lighter wheels with the same money.
> 
> What is you opinion about the two groups.


Buy a set of 2013-2014 Chorus Ultrashift levers which can go five cogs smaller per lever actuation and enjoy what you have. Neither Shimano nor SRAM mechanical offers that functionality which makes a huge difference, especially where you have a compact crank and/or tight cassette.

Run out of cogs on the big ring with Ultrashift and it's SHOVE (both thumb buttons) to end up at the next gear.

Do the same with other brake/shift levers and it's SHOVE (both levers) - release - click - release - click - release - click - release - click - release when you're riding a tight cassette with a compact.

The weight doesn't matter unless you're racing, using an effective structured training plan, built for climbing where two pounds an inch is good, and racing in the mountains. In that situation each 100g is good for up to 0.14% more speed which is five seconds gain for each hour you spend off the front headed to a mountain top finish.

If you're not racing the small speed difference doesn't matter.

If you don't follow a decent training plan, you're leaving a huge amount of speed on the table and it doesn't matter. I'm about 30% faster up-hill on a decent plan and would need to drop 50 pounds of bike weight to match those gains which isn't possible starting at 18-20 pounds.

If you weigh much over two pounds per inch either you're too fat or don't have the body morphology to produce a winning power to weight ratio and the marginal gains won't make you competitive.

If you aren't in the mountains it doesn't matter because so little power is going into overcoming rolling resistance and negligible energy is lost to accelerations.

Usually that means picking the user interface you want followed by cosmetics.


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## xsalirx (Dec 19, 2013)

Thanks for the help!


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## pdh777 (Oct 7, 2005)

Last summer I went from Force to Record. Both groups have some positives.

The Force double tap was intuitive for me, I liked it, The actual shifting was clunkier than Campy but not bad - had the most comfortable hoods - and is very cost effective. Do not think it is as durable as Campy or Shimano. Basically everything worked fine with the group - not great, but pretty good.

Campy is more refined for sure - smoother shifting from both front and rear - has the additional dump feature where you can drop it down 3 gears at one shift - the brakes are smoother and have more even response as well. Overall more refined is the word.

One thing you may want to consider - I have another Campy equipped bike and wanted the interchangeability of wheels, cassettes and chains. This makes things a lot less complicated - I had 3 bikes - One campy - One Sram - One Shimano. Now with two Campy things are much easier. The Shimano bike is a commuter - at some point I will change this to Athena.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

While you cannot put a Campy cassette on a Shimano cassette body wheel, and vice versa, the wheel/cassette combos are reportedly interchangeable. In other words, you can pull the wheel off a 11-speed Shimano equipped bike and stick it on a 11-speed Campy equipped bike and it will work just fine. 

Don't waste money getting Record. With the exception of a few carbon and titanium bits and pieces, its the same group as Chorus. In the past, the saying went -- this year's Chorus is last year's record. Spending the extra money on Record doesn't pass the benefit-cost test. 

I personally think that the best bang for the buck group is Shimano Ultegra. But the most important consideration is your preference for how a group shifts, how you like the feel of the hoods, and aesthetics. Campy cranks are beautiful. Shimano cranks are butt ugly. Just my opinion ...


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## GRAVELBIKE (Sep 16, 2011)

Try both, and see which shifting paradigm/interface you prefer. I was a big Campy fan until I tried SRAM DoubleTap levers, and now all my bikes sport SRAM drivetrains.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Shimano Ultegra or Dura Ace


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

These companies have two different approaches to their stuff, Campy is more for the corporate well to do person who wants the best and wants a smooth reliable drivetrain along with good looks. SRAM, at least the ones I test rode, shifter with a bang and wasn't smooth but was fast. Shimano is in between those two in that respect. Sram mid level stuff isn't as reliable as Shimano mid level stuff, and Campy is probably the most reliable but people will argue that till the cows come home. I think the best bang for the buck is actually 105 not Ultegra, however the 105 system can be improved a tad by going with a Ultegra rear derailleur and Dura Ace 9000 cables, doing those two things makes the 105 stuff feel like all Ultegra stuff. If money is no object then yes the Ultegra would be a great choice because the shift levers are built a tad better but I don't think the cost to replace the levers, should one fail, is worth the cost over 105. Campy will be the least cost effective of the group but they seem to last longer from what history since the introduction of briftors has shown. I do think SRAM is making major progress and in 10 to 15 years will be poised to probably take the helm as the largest supplier of bike components and in that pursuit will improve their reliability. Shimano has a fight on their hands with SRAM, will they manage to beat off the attacks is anyones guess. Shimano also has the largest parts availability in the world, go to any shop and they'll have Shimano parts, not so much with SRAM and even less with Campy. Comfort wise between the 3 is entirely the opinion of the user. Also some people don't like Srams doubletap shifting where one lever is pushed a little for one direction and the opposite and more for the opposite direction, I found that hard to get use to in my test rides whereas Shimano in particular and Campy were more natural...again an opinion, but this is based on years of friction and SIS usage where two lever operation became normal for me.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

froze said:


> I think the best bang for the buck is actually 105 not Ultegra, however the 105 system can be improved a tad by going with a Ultegra rear derailleur and Dura Ace 9000 cables, doing those two things makes the 105 stuff feel like all Ultegra stuff.


Ultegra is a tad under $200 more than 105. Hell, those "upgrades" will cost an extra $50. A lot of folks spend more than $200 per year on rubber. 105 is nothing to sniff at, but at half the price of Dura Ace, Ultegra is a good buy. And this is coming from a "corporate" Campy guy.


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## xsalirx (Dec 19, 2013)

I've tried, sram, campy (my two bikes have campy veloce one and athena) and shimano, but shimano is not an option at all, because I don't like the way you shift and specially the lever moving when you brake. I really like the ergonomy of the campy lever's, but I don't know about reliability because one of my veloce levers "ended is life" after 2 years and 6.000k


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

Interesting so far. I'm running Campy pre 11 speed groups. I don't think there is a cost effectve way to go 11 for 3 bikes. Especially since Campy changed all their high end groups to the new style. It looks like 10 speed is dying in the market place. Considering there is little backwards compatibility. This makes upgrades very expensive.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

cs1 said:


> Interesting so far. I'm running Campy pre 11 speed groups. I don't think there is a cost effectve way to go 11 for 3 bikes. Especially since Campy changed all their high end groups to the new style. It looks like 10 speed is dying in the market place. Considering there is little backwards compatibility. This makes upgrades very expensive.


Buy new 2014 or older Chorus levers before the supply runs out from your favorite UK source. $240 a bike, but it comes with cables you were going to replace anyways so the net cost is more like $190. Slum it with Athena for $140 / $90 net if you really must - the crippled one down shifting is no different from Shimano/SRAM.

Apply C40's cable clamp tweak to your existing rear derailleurs for free.

Install Campagnolo 11 speed cassettes on your existing 9-10-11 cog hubs. $100 each.

Enjoy?


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I haven't had any issues with my 10 speed Campy Athena from 06 era (it's on my 07 Mercian but Mercian gave me a great deal on the previous year model of Athena). However admittedly I haven't rode the bike much, so I can't honestly say how long it will last. I may sell the Mercian because I don't ride it and I have a friend that keeps bugging me about it, but I have a tough time letting bikes go, and I love this bike but it's just too nice to get rode a lot, so maybe...?


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## sneakyracer (Dec 1, 2007)

xsalirx said:


> I've a Campy Athena from 2013, And I was going to change it for a 2015 Campy Record but then I "discovered" that the Sram Force is almost the same weight and half the price and that means I can buy a lighter wheels with the same money.
> 
> What is you opinion about the two groups.
> 
> Thanks


Hi, I have used extensively Shimano Ultegra 10 speed, SRAM Force 10 speed and now SRAM RED 22 (11 speed). Used Campy here and there (various) but have not owned it. Honestly I would not use weight as a determining factor in choosing between a Campy or a SRAM drivetrain. #1 Would be feel and shift characteristics, what you prefer #2 Would be Price.

So if you prefer Campy then get a group that reaches your price point. Like mentioned the Chrous is the best value compared to the Record and SuperRecord and doesnt give up much weight / functionality if anything. 

Shimano shifters feel nice but a tad less sleek. Good on upshifts, more precise but a bit less so on downshifts. 

SRAM Force 10 speed (w/ a 53/39 crank) has been absolutely bomb proof in my SuperSix. It has required VERY little adjustements. At one point I used it for close to a year without touching it (I ride 4-6 thousand miles a year). Shifts are nice and crisp and reliable.

The SRAM Red 22 (w/ a 50/34 crank) has required 3-4 adjustments during the first few months but now it is rock steady. It requires a bit less effort to shift but it is smoother than the force.


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## fronesis (Jan 22, 2014)

Drew Eckhardt said:


> Buy new 2014 or older Chorus levers *before the supply runs out from your favorite UK source*.


Has there been a change to ultra torque shifting for 2015? Or will we no longer be able to buy campy stuff through UK sources?

_What did I miss?_


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

fronesis said:


> Has there been a change to ultra torque shifting for 2015? Or will we no longer be able to buy campy stuff through UK sources?
> 
> _What did I miss?_


They changed the front and rear actuation ratios for 2015 which may require new derailleurs thus precluding the cost effective migration to 11 cogs on cs1's 3 Campaganolo 10 speed bikes.


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## pdh777 (Oct 7, 2005)

I should point out that I paid $1,350 for my record group with a chorus cassette from Ribble - buying the peices individually.

At the time the chorus would've run $200 less. If the gap between the two sets was $600 - $700 like it usually is, I would've bought chorus with no remorse.


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## fronesis (Jan 22, 2014)

Drew Eckhardt said:


> They changed the front and rear actuation ratios for 2015 which may require new derailleurs thus precluding the cost effective migration to 11 cogs on cs1's 3 Campaganolo 10 speed bikes.


Thanks. Very clear.


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## NoCoGreg (Jan 3, 2015)

IMO it's all about the cost and the ergonomics. I've got Campy, SRAM and Shimano 10spd on various bikes. All the parts work great but there are a few nuances…

SRAM 10spd front shifting was and remains more fickle. Better have it dialed in and don't even think about downshifting the FD (Red or Force) if you're on a steep hill. The spring just can't pull hard enough to deflect (and derail) the chain. Ugh!!! Haven't had a chance to try 11spd. Hope SRAM fixed this!

Campy - Chorus, Record and Centaur all work great BUT the rear shifters wear out MUCH faster than the Shimano and SRAM. Sure, one can rebuild the rear shifter, but at $80 or more per rebuild it does start to add up. My wife and I ride A LOT and typically have to rebuild the right shifter after two years of heavy use. In comparison the SRAM red shifters, despite heavy use, have yet to need a rebuild.

Shimano - Great up until they start to wear. There simply is no rebuild option with Shimano. First generation Dura Ace 22spd rear shifters and cassettes appear to be problematic (lots of complaints from broken shift cables that jam/ruin the shifter, to cassettes that always creak). I hear the updated Dura Ace shifters works better. If you prefer a lighter touch with your shifting, then Shimano is the way to go. If OTOH you prefer a solid "clunk" then definitely stick with SRAM or Campy. Shimano 10spd also had a problem with broken off cable ends becoming jammed inside the shifter and trashing the entire unit. So with Shimano ya might want to replace shift cables regularly!

Going from 9 to 10 and now 11 speeds, the chains and cogs keep getting narrower. Yup this means chains and cassettes wear out faster and in case you haven't noticed Campy is very proud of their cassettes. I can purchase three Ultegra 10spd cassettes for the price of a Centaur 10spd cassette. If you're like me, and you ride a lot, the consumables will make a huge difference in the cost of ownership.

Last thot - for me the SRAM and Shimano gear ratios are a much better fit with the terrain and how I ride.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

NoCoGreg said:


> Campy - Chorus, Record and Centaur all work great BUT the rear shifters wear out MUCH faster than the Shimano and SRAM. Sure, one can rebuild the rear shifter, but at $80 or more per rebuild it does start to add up.


Campagnolo changed the shift mechanisms in 2009. The new Ultrashift (Chorus and above from that point on, Centaur/Veloce/Athena for 2009-2010 only, 5 cogs smaller / 3 larger) mechanism should last pretty much indefinitely (it replaces the G-springs which abrade on the index cam and fail due to fatigue with ball bearings which roll over the detents and coil springs which don't flex enough to fatigue). I laid in a lifetime stockpile of 2010 10 cog units before the NOS supply dried up.

If you do stick with vintage equipment, re-taping the handlebars is the hardest part of a rebuild and parts cost under $6 for a pair of G-springs (buy the convenient 4-pack) plus $6 if you need a carrier, with the new plastic part longer lived than the old pot-metal design. Eventually you break the front paddle and thumb lever return springs which are also $6 parts; although that was about half a dozen rebuilds for me.



> My wife and I ride A LOT and typically have to rebuild the right shifter after two years of heavy use.


I did that until moving on to Ultrashift and didn't find it a big deal.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

^^ So how many miles is the 2009+ years of Campy shift mechanisms lasting before rebuilding?

I'm glad my Athena stuff was made in 2006!


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

xsalirx said:


> I've tried, sram, campy (my two bikes have campy veloce one and athena) and shimano, but shimano is not an option at all, because I don't like the way you shift and specially the lever moving when you brake. I really like the ergonomy of the campy lever's, but I don't know about reliability because one of my veloce levers "ended is life" after 2 years and 6.000k


My Super Record controls have 25000 km on them. Same internals as Chorus.


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## 195cranky (Jun 25, 2013)

Have used Campy since early 80's. Currently have and use:

Campy EPS Record
Campy EPS Athena
Campy 2015 mech Chorus 
and a TT bike with some sort of SRAM garbage

As to Campy in a simplistic manner of opinion;
Super Record - pricey, nice, light, looks good, some ti bits and lots of carbon
Record - not as pricey, just as nice, less Ti, less carbon
Chorus - less pricey, just as nice, a tad heavier, works as good, feels the same, alu
Athena - cheaper, feels nice, looks fine, lots of alu, works great, and in my EPS was Athena now Chorus which makes way more sense marketing and naming-wise then Athena ever did

my .02

To keep costs down, you don't have to buy SR or Record cogs or chains. Just get Chorus cogs and chains which are less expensive, works just as well, maybe even last longer, are a bit heavier, but keeps more weight in the wallet and since they are consumables and need to be replaced if you ride more than shine. Save the money. Nobody can tell anyway as you pass them. Maybe at the coffee shop and maybe in your living room. But really, nobody cares that much to care what you got other than you. If it makes you feel good buy it. If you are concerned about costs, or spending too much money, keep it reasonable and Athena or Chorus is probably better that some Red 22 or Japanese disposables.

If I were to buy today for a fleet of bikes would just do Chorus EPS for electric shift desires and Chorus mechanical if leaning towards cables. Will SR or R make you faster or stronger or climb better? Maybe? Doubt it. Will it look better? Sure. If that is what you like doing, staring. I like riding. 

Chorus looks great, rides great and fun to beat many of the high dollar SR and R in many different arenas. Bikes are tools to me, not jewels. Maybe if I just had one jewel go to bike I might splurge for SR or R but having many bikes and ride them all I prefer to go tool route and have a fleet with reasonable parts that work just as great, feel just as good and actually no different if you have a blindfold on.

I don't even bother looking, trying or buying Sram or fishing tackle company stuff since it ain't compatible anyway. Stick with one, happy with that, no reason to add or change and based on what the TT bike has it is just garbage that doesn't work for sh...

Good luck.


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## NoCoGreg (Jan 3, 2015)

Drew - thanks for the tip. I've got a NOS set of Chorus 10sp shifters in storage. I'll have to check the S/N to see if it's 2009 or earlier. Been sitting on them for a while as I was going to upgrade my CX/gravel bike from Centaur when the G-spring wore out.

Aside from G-springs wearing out, the Campy 10spd stuff has been amazing!

Regards,
Greg


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

NoCoGreg said:


> Drew - thanks for the tip. I've got a NOS set of Chorus 10sp shifters in storage. I'll have to check the S/N to see if it's 2009 or earlier. Been sitting on them for a while as I was going to upgrade my CX/gravel bike from Centaur when the G-spring wore out.
> 
> Aside from G-springs wearing out, the Campy 10spd stuff has been amazing!
> 
> ...


You have 2008 model year shifters or older, regardless of when you bought them (Campagnolo still seems to make Record and Chorus 10 speed QS levers). After that Chorus moved to the new Ultrashift mechanism but was 11 cogs only.

To get the new Ultrashift mechanism you need 2010 shifters which means Veloce or Centaur - internally identical to Chorus through Super Record apart from the 10 speed index cam, 10 speed front ratchet, and 7g heavier rear ratchets vs Super Record. Outside the brake blades are different - Centaur has a carbon option with the same 337g shifter weight as Chorus/Record; Centaur alloy and Veloce have aluminum brake levers that add 21g a pair.

2009 got Ultrashift, but the original index cam was a bit spongy and Campagnolo made a running change to a new design that year. Unfortunately they also discontinued Ultrashift small part sales later that year so you'd need a complete right mechanism sans brake blade, hood, and mounting hardware for about $90 to convert to a well-running 10 cog setup from there or later Chorus 11 cog. 

In 2011 everything from Athena down moved to Powershift, which uses an escapement mechanism that goes just one cog smaller like Shimano and the much maligned Campagnolo Escape shifter.

I bought one NOS pair of 2010 Centaur Carbon Ultrashift levers before the supply dried up to use once my 1997 Chorus levers broke a no-longer available small part (that happened a year or two later in 2012) and another NOS pair of 2010 Veloce Ultrashift levers as spares for about what I'd spend on a set of hoods and the included cable set.


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## gfk_velo (Jun 17, 2013)

Drew Eckhardt said:


> 2009 got Ultrashift, but the original index cam was a bit spongy and Campagnolo made a running change to a new design that year. Unfortunately they also discontinued Ultrashift small part sales later that year so you'd need a complete right mechanism sans brake blade, hood, and mounting hardware for about $90 to convert to a well-running 10 cog setup from there or later Chorus 11 cog.
> 
> In 2011 everything from Athena down moved to Powershift, which uses an escapement mechanism that goes just one cog smaller like Shimano and the much maligned Campagnolo Escape shifter.
> 
> I bought one NOS pair of 2010 Centaur Carbon Ultrashift levers before the supply dried up to use once my 1997 Chorus levers broke a no-longer available small part (that happened a year or two later in 2012) and another NOS pair of 2010 Veloce Ultrashift levers as spares for about what I'd spend on a set of hoods and the included cable set.


We still have stock of the last generation of EC-CE110 kits that were used in the assembly of 10s UltraShift, and are identical to the internals in the body that you refer to, Drew. 

We also split complete bodies 10 & 11s so that we have a supply of small UltraShift spares and the 10s spares that are gradually being taken off the "available spares" list. 

Although we are the main Campagnolo SC for the UK, we have never agreed with Campagnolo's policy where spares-for-shifters are concerned and we still do full services on all versions of ErgoPower (OK, most parts are a problem on v1 and v1a Ergos, now ...) if that is what the end-user requires and / or is most cost-effective .....


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## flatlander_48 (Nov 16, 2005)

GRAVELBIKE said:


> Try both, and see which shifting paradigm/interface you prefer. I was a big Campy fan until I tried SRAM DoubleTap levers, and now all my bikes sport SRAM drivetrains.


Just the opposite for me. Rode 9-speed 105 for a year and a half and never liked the lever moving in 2 planes. Checked out SRAM briefly and it seemed a step backwards from Shimano and even less intuitive.

It is simpler for me to visualize how I want the chain to move and the Campagnolo levers work the same way.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

flatlander_48 said:


> Just the opposite for me. Rode 9-speed 105 for a year and a half and never liked the lever moving in 2 planes. Checked out SRAM briefly and it seemed a step backwards from Shimano and even less intuitive.
> 
> It is simpler for me to visualize how I want the chain to move and the Campagnolo levers work the same way.


This is the reason I didn't get SRAM on my new bike. Having been use to for years riding down tube shifters the way Shimano and Campy work is much closer to that so my little pea brain had no problems working either system, but the double tap thing not so much. If a person was to learn from the get go to use SRAM then they wouldn't have any more problems with it than learning Shimano or Campy, but like I said Shimano and Campy is more like downtube shifting except its on the brake lever.


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