# Cleaning rust inside frame?



## rcnute (Dec 21, 2004)

There's a little rust in the seat tube. What's the best way to address? Spray with WD-40 and get a long scrubber? Or just Framesaver and forget about it?


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## xxl (Mar 19, 2002)

rcnute said:


> There's a little rust in the seat tube. What's the best way to address? Spray with WD-40 and get a long scrubber? Or just Framesaver and forget about it?


Half-right; just forget about it. (BTW, I assume it's a steel frame.)

Seriously, frame rust in general is made out to be a much bigger problem than it is, IMHO. Unless you're seeing it flaking, and/or coming through to the outside paint, I wouldn't worry about it. If you're concerned about seatpost seizing, slop some grease or anti-seize goo on the post (which is something you should be doing anyway). If you're anal-retentive to the nth power, you could get a flex-hone for your power drill, and run it down the seat tube to knock all the crap off; then put on your linseed oil, Weigle's, or what have you. Tilt your frame so you don't debride that stuff and have it fall into your BB.

I've never ever seen a frameset that's failed due to seat tube rust, so I choose to live dangerously, and do nothing. YMMV.


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## Dinosaur (Jan 29, 2004)

I use a cleaning rod for a rifle with a brass brush attached. I squirt some WD-40 down the seat tube and go to work with the brush. One problem is the residue from the WD-40 might make you seat post slip, so try to get it all out. You can use soap and water or just a folded up towel to get down into the seat tube. Another problem is I made the inside of my seat post so nice and smooth that most seat posts slip. I went to a c.f seat post (no grease).


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## android (Nov 20, 2007)

I run a bottle brush on a stick with FrameSaver down the post about twice a year. Somehow, dirt can be magically transported inside the bicycle frame.


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## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

I'd hit it with a steel brush on an electric drill and then spray in some of the product you get at the auto parts store that turns rust black (can't remember the name). I'd follow this up with some FrameSaver. While minor surface rust will not likely be a problem I have seen frames that have succumbed to rust. Climate and maintenance play a big role. I tear down my bikes every winter (depending on how much use they've seen the previous season), inspect them and rebuild them. It's fun, you learn a lot about wrenching and it's good for your bikes.


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## DERMotorSports (Nov 21, 2007)

Dinosaur said:


> I use a cleaning rod for a rifle with a brass brush attached. I squirt some WD-40 down the seat tube and go to work with the brush. One problem is the residue from the WD-40 might make you seat post slip, so try to get it all out. You can use soap and water or just a folded up towel to get down into the seat tube. Another problem is I made the inside of my seat post so nice and smooth that most seat posts slip. I went to a c.f seat post (no grease).


Carbon can combine with metal => galvanic corrosion and it IS ugly - use cu antiseize.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Prevention and removal*



rcnute said:


> There's a little rust in the seat tube. What's the best way to address? Spray with WD-40 and get a long scrubber? Or just Framesaver and forget about it?


Any oil squirted down there will prevent further rust. Something in an aerosol (like TriFlow) works best. There's no need whatsoever to remove existing rust. If everything is coated with oil, you won't get any more rust and the existing stuff will just sit there.


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## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

I agree with *xxl *

Corrosion or rust in this case is blown out of proportion in the biking world. That's probably because we're not all chem majors (and neither am I). 

Turns out that you'll live if it's just rusted. And in all likelihood you'll be able to ride that bike until you die when you're 150 and still be okay. Now if you live until 300 THEN you might have a problem...

For the most part corrosion on steel (cromo) or magnesium (magnesium alloys) are natural protective layers themselves. As long as you dry out your frame and don't soak it in salt water you'll be fine. Rain doesn't kill my steel beast. 

That's the same reason why Easton stopped making their EM90 stem. People complained about corrosion of the magnesium alloy to magnesium oxide. It doesn't look pretty, but it barely impacts the structural integrity of the stem or in your case your frame.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Clarifying understanding*



CleavesF said:


> Corrosion or rust in this case is blown out of proportion in the biking world. That's probably because we're not all chem majors (and neither am I).
> 
> Turns out that you'll live if it's just rusted. And in all likelihood you'll be able to ride that bike until you die when you're 150 and still be okay. Now if you live until 300 THEN you might have a problem...
> 
> ...


There are a lot of variabilities in corrosion, but your understanding of steel rust is wrong. Unless it is specifically formulated (and bike frames are not) then steel is not self protective. There are way too many possibilities for any given frame to say it will either fail quickly or last a long time. I used to ride with a guy who was a profuse sweater, and apparently his sweat was corrosive, or perhaps his frame was not properly prepared, but the frame rusted through in about 5 years. It is very easy to protect the inside of a frame, so there is no reason not to do it. Certainly, it's wrong to simply say that there's nothing to worry about because that cannot be predicted. Protect your frame from the inside, and treat any exterior rust that forms.

BTW, it's metalurgists, not chemists, who understand corrosion. Mechanical and chemical engineers usually have some training on the subject as well.


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## breadrunner (Jan 22, 2004)

*Weigles is easy*

Just sprayed my 2002 Jamis Eclipse main tubes - 853 steel. Noticed some clouding in the clear coat in the immediate area of the connection of the carbon chain stays and the steel nubs that connect the stays with the bottom bracket. Is there some corrosion of the carbon fiber? Nothing loose or bubbly. Ideas?


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Clouding over*



breadrunner said:


> Noticed some clouding in the clear coat in the immediate area of the connection of the carbon chain stays and the steel nubs that connect the stays with the bottom bracket. Is there some corrosion of the carbon fiber? Nothing loose or bubbly. Ideas?


Idea #1. Your clear coat is cloudy. Most likely has nothing to do with the substrate (CF/epoxy matrix) or anything else.


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## rcnute (Dec 21, 2004)

For what it's worth, a local shop told me that rust from the outside in is much more worrisome than rust originating from the inside.


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## xxl (Mar 19, 2002)

Kerry Irons said:


> There are a lot of variabilities in corrosion, but your understanding of steel rust is wrong. Unless it is specifically formulated (and bike frames are not) then steel is not self protective. There are way too many possibilities for any given frame to say it will either fail quickly or last a long time. I used to ride with a guy who was a profuse sweater, and apparently his sweat was corrosive, or perhaps his frame was not properly prepared, but the frame rusted through in about 5 years. It is very easy to protect the inside of a frame, so there is no reason not to do it. Certainly, it's wrong to simply say that there's nothing to worry about because that cannot be predicted. Protect your frame from the inside, and treat any exterior rust that forms.
> 
> BTW, it's metalurgists, not chemists, who understand corrosion. Mechanical and chemical engineers usually have some training on the subject as well.


Ah, the hyperhydrotic biker; I used to ride with one myself. There are those rare individuals whose sweat etches metal on contact. The drip pattern on his bike was instructive: nothing wrong north of the bars, but everything in his draft was just etched beyond belief. The freewheel on this guy's bike failed because whole sections of teeth had just spalled off the cogs. You'd think that the thing had been left in a tank of ocean water.

And yet, his frame took almost fifteen years before it crapped out, and even then it was rideable; it just looked like hell. Plus the perspiration had taken its toll on his componentry, as mentioned, so it was cheaper for him to buy new ones already on a bike. But really, I don't think using Boeshield would've helped this guy. And given that your friend's bike rusted through _so _quickly, I think something happened in its production (maybe a metal cleaner that wasn't fully neutralized?)

And he's one outlier, an extreme case, in a lifetime of bike riding. Barring oceanside residents, I just haven't seen many bikes die because of frame rust (like my friend, the "extreme" rider's components usually crap out well before the frame can rise to the level of a problem). Steel bikes around the world quite commonly last decades, and my guess is that relatively few owners go beyond casual maintenance at best.


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