# Apex to RED crankset upgrade questions



## The English Hacker

Please help a newb with upgraditus!

Currently have:
Specialized Roubaix Elite 2011
SRAM S150 crankset (50/34) with powerspline BB
SRAM Apex FD and RD
SRAM Apex 11-32 10-speed cassette
KMC X10 CP chain

I'm looking to upgrade the crankset and BB but I'm confused as to what's compatible.

I've been looking at the SRAM RED crankset (172.5mm, 50/34) on sale on backcountry and Bonktown. Is this a direct replacement? Would I need the RED BB or could I use a Force or Rival BB?

Anything else I haven't considered?

Thanks!


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## Chuckstyl5

You need to find a LBS that is willing to cut out or press out the adapter - My LBS did a kick ass job and cut it out to press in the BB30 bearings.


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## The English Hacker

I was expecting to buy a GXP BB, not BB30. 

Doesn't the Power Spline BB just get removed with a BB tool?


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## purdyd

The English Hacker said:


> I was expecting to buy a GXP BB, not BB30.
> 
> Doesn't the Power Spline BB just get removed with a BB tool?


yes, you will have to get a crank puller to remove the cranks, the bolt head on the crank arm had some odd diameter for the crank puller i borrowed and i had to stuff a hex driver bit back into the hole 

and then the BT22 i believe park tool to remove the BB drive side is reverse threaded - a pain in the ass because the axel is not hollow so you can't run a quick release through to hold the tool in place

then you can add back in the GXP BB - which is a snap

I just took out that same powerspline crankset out of my Wife's bike (2011 Ruby) and put back in the Rival Crankset with GXP BB

The powerspline BB weighed about 530 grams by itself and I was not impressed by the whole setup compared with the newer crank/BB setups

the chainrings on the S150 seem first rate though, same as the rival crank and i think the 34 tooth chainring is the same for all SRAM cranks


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## rayvenom

*Which crank puller?*

I am trying to do the exact same thing on my 2011 Roubaix Apex. 

I was using Park Tool ISIS/octalink crank puller - CCP-44C and the tip broke. Am I using the wrong crank puller? 

Any advice appreciated.


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## new2rd

I just ordered a Force crankset w/ the GXP bb. I'll let u know how it goes. I didn't see a reason to go with Red... Really, the Rival crank gets great reviews, but I liked the way the Force crank looks. I have the same bike as you, but with upgraded wheels.


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## new2rd

Got my bike back today. The Force crankset and FD are really nice. The only data that I have comparing before and after is the weight drop. The bike now weighs 17.85 or .6 lbs less than before the swap. I took it for a quick test ride ( I'm sick right now). Felt good and looks sweet!!!


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## The English Hacker

new2rd said:


> Got my bike back today. The Force crankset and FD are really nice. The only data that I have comparing before and after is the weight drop. The bike now weighs 17.85 or .6 lbs less than before the swap. I took it for a quick test ride ( I'm sick right now). Felt good and looks sweet!!!


Sounds like a shop did it for you. Do you have anything further to add about removing the old BB?

Pics too please...


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## The English Hacker

Also, did you purchase both the Force crankset and a SRAM GXP Team BB? Anything else needed?


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## new2rd

Yes, the shop did it for me. I ordered through them since I like to support my LBS. Paid a little more, but the installation was free. Yes, that's all you need. I didn't watch the removal/installation, but I did check out both the crank and the BB before installation. The LBS owner is a real fan of the GXP BB's compared to the over-sized BB. The quality seems good and I'm glad that I went with the Force crank saving money for other future upgrades.


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## MikeMiranda

new2rd said:


> The bike now weighs 17.85 or .6 lbs less than before the swap.


Kinda of excited to weigh mine since I have changed a few more things




The English Hacker said:


> Please help a newb with upgraditus!
> 
> Currently have:
> Specialized Roubaix Elite 2011
> SRAM S150 crankset (50/34) with powerspline BB
> SRAM Apex FD and RD
> SRAM Apex 11-32 10-speed cassette
> KMC X10 CP chain
> 
> I'm looking to upgrade the crankset and BB but I'm confused as to what's compatible.
> 
> I've been looking at the SRAM RED crankset (172.5mm, 50/34) on sale on backcountry and Bonktown. Is this a direct replacement? Would I need the RED BB or could I use a Force or Rival BB?
> 
> Anything else I haven't considered?
> 
> Thanks!


I have the same bike an just switched out the crankset last month And I love it


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## The English Hacker

Deleted


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## Antonio Araujo

purdyd said:


> I just took out that same powerspline crankset out of my Wife's bike (2011 Ruby) and put back in the Rival Crankset with GXP BB
> 
> The powerspline BB weighed about 530 grams by itself and I was not impressed by the whole setup compared with the newer crank/BB setups
> 
> the chainrings on the S150 seem first rate though, same as the rival crank and i think the 34 tooth chainring is the same for all SRAM cranks


Do you know what is the weight of the S150?

I want to know how much can I save if I replace the S150 + Powerspline with a Rival or Force Crankset with the GXP BB.

Thanks!


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## SilverStar07

Antonio Araujo said:


> Do you know what is the weight of the S150?
> 
> I want to know how much can I save if I replace the S150 + Powerspline with a Rival or Force Crankset with the GXP BB.
> 
> Thanks!



I have a Secteur Elite Apex with the S150 Power Spline Crankset and I am looking at doing the same upgrade. From what I have been able to find online is the S150 has a weight of 1025g, I don't know if that is including the BB or not. There is a significant amount of weight that can be shed by switching out those cranks.

SS-


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## new2rd

I shed 270 grams when I swapped mine out with the compact Force 50-34 w/ GXP. Not bad, but it's not anywhere close to what is considered a light bike. It's in the mid 17's as it sits right now.
View attachment 250980


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## Antonio Araujo

My Roubaix Apex Compact 2012 (size 52) doesn't have any modification yet and it weights 9,125 Kg (around 20 lbs) with Garmin Edge 200, Keo Look Easy pedals and 1 bottle + cage.

I think the first big upgrade are the Wheels + Tires (Mavic Ksyrium Elite and Michelin PRO Race 3 or 4 -800g) and then the Crankset (SRAM Force -270g).

After that I'm clueless... But I'd love to see it one day with around 7,5 Kg (16,5 lbs) 
Any tips?


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## new2rd

Antonio, I believe my 54cm Roubaix weighed about 9.2 before I got infected with upgraditis. The wheel/tube/tire combo is the biggest weight savings you can get and if you are relatively small (under 160) there's potential to save over a kg. I lost just a hair under 2 lbs when I switched and I didn't go crazy light. The crank is probably the next biggest weight saver and you can go lighter than the Force. I've upgraded just about everything (stem, handlebars, seat, cassette, crankset, FD, and chain). At this point I don't see upgrading the RD or the Apex levers since they both work fine. I do have a carbon fiber seatpost (I beleive the 2012 models went to aluminum). 
The most recent upgrade was the stem (I'm more flexible now and needed a 110mm) and for comfort in the drops I upgraded the handlebars. The cassette was based on having more usable gears. The chain was just a replacement since my old one was getting worn. What I'm getting at is the only upgrades I made regarding weight was the wheels and crankset. 
I'll have to get my bike back on the scale, but I believe it's around 17.5 lbs. Getting the bike down to 16.5 can be done just with wheels and crankset, although your selections listed will probably put you in the 17.5-17.7 range.


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## The English Hacker

Crank looks great new2rd.

I've upgraded to Neuvation R28 Aero wheels, GP4000S tires, Pave carbon seatpost, Toupe Expert seat, carbon bottle holders, Speedplay Zeros, Fizik bar tape. Next is definitely going to be a Force crank.


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## The English Hacker

Just received my Red Black compact crank today. Going to get it swapped in ASAP. Excited!


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## The English Hacker

Just picked up from the LBS:


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## Antonio Araujo

It looks awesome, congratulations!


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## 2128

wow! congret! have a great ride


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## sinatee

I'm doing the same thing. Move my 2012 Apex Roubaix to a SRAM red crank. I'd only suggest ceramic BB if possible.


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## ksauers

I just bought a 2012 Allez Comp Apex Mid-compact. Chainrings are 52/36. I would like to upgrade for looks mostly but performance improvement also. Seems to be too big a jump from 52 to 36 for me. Is there such a thing as 52/38? or any other choices? I've seen some 53/39's. What do i need to look for ? what's out there? What's my bolt diameter? I'm just a nubee.


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## amidroc

I'm glad I found this thread!

I am considering going the RED route. I already have the RED brakes because the TEKTRO brakes were too narrow for my ZIPP 101s. Everytime I had a flat I had to wrestle the wheel out of the calipers. So I'd like to keep with the SRAM brand and I found a good deal on a RED crankset. I decided not to go with the SRAM GXP BB or ceramic. I chose a Chris King BB in Gold with steel bearings. The gold was to match the SPECIALIZED letter on the tube and add a bit of bling.

I hope to get them in the mail in the next couple weeks. I plan on doing the wrenching myself. Is the existing crank and BB difficult to remove? Anything I need to watch out for?

Thanks in advance.
Amidroc


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## amidroc

new2rd said:


> I shed 270 grams when I swapped mine out with the compact Force 50-34 w/ GXP. Not bad, but it's not anywhere close to what is considered a light bike. It's in the mid 17's as it sits right now.
> View attachment 250980


I see the Force FD. Was it difficult to install? Any added benefits over the apex FD?


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## amidroc

I received my SRAM RED crank and cris king BB this afternoon. I couldn't wait to install it.

first having the right tools makes the job much easier. second having the right tools makes the job much easier.

removing the existing sram S150 crank and look pedals was a snap. the power spline bottom bracket was a different story. this is where having the right tools came in handy. i used Park Tool BBT-22 and the non drive side was easy it drive side took a little more effort.

preparing the BB shell called for chasing and facing the threads. i dont have those tools. but i was carfule and inspected the threads. i cleared out all the old grease.

installing the bearing cups was pretty straight forward. since i am using the SRAM RED with 68mm BB shell i didnt need to use any of the included spacers. I will admit I read the installation instructions about 20 times before i even let the cups touch the shell. even after reading i accidently put the non drive side cup on the drive side and almost jacked up my BB shell. after i figured out my mistake the drive size cup went on just fine. the non drive side went on with ease too. I purchased the chris king BB installtion tool and it came with at 3/8 socket so i could use my torque wrench.

the crank instructions were straight forward. there were only five steps from SRAM. the chris king instructions were a bit more involved but not too bad. basically you needed to test fit the crank in the cups to if the measurements were right then proceed with installing the non drive side crank arm. I torqued it to spec and checked it for any play and drag. i didnt detect any so i installed the look pedals and cadence sensor and took it for a spin and i could tell there was a difference.

i attached some pics


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## SilverStar07

amidroc said:


> I received my SRAM RED crank and cris king BB this afternoon. I couldn't wait to install it.
> 
> first having the right tools makes the job much easier. second having the right tools makes the job much easier.
> 
> removing the existing sram S150 crank and look pedals was a snap. the power spline bottom bracket was a different story. this is where having the right tools came in handy. i used Park Tool BBT-22 and the non drive side was easy it drive side took a little more effort.
> 
> preparing the BB shell called for chasing and facing the threads. i dont have those tools. but i was carfule and inspected the threads. i cleared out all the old grease.
> 
> installing the bearing cups was pretty straight forward. since i am using the SRAM RED with 68mm BB shell i didnt need to use any of the included spacers. I will admit I read the installation instructions about 20 times before i even let the cups touch the shell. even after reading i accidently put the non drive side cup on the drive side and almost jacked up my BB shell. after i figured out my mistake the drive size cup went on just fine. the non drive side went on with ease too. I purchased the chris king BB installtion tool and it came with at 3/8 socket so i could use my torque wrench.
> 
> the crank instructions were straight forward. there were only five steps from SRAM. the chris king instructions were a bit more involved but not too bad. basically you needed to test fit the crank in the cups to if the measurements were right then proceed with installing the non drive side crank arm. I torqued it to spec and checked it for any play and drag. i didnt detect any so i installed the look pedals and cadence sensor and took it for a spin and i could tell there was a difference.
> 
> i attached some pics


I will be doing this same upgrade soon, probably right after Christmas. I just ordered the Red Crankset (with compact silver rings not the black one's) and I still need to order the Chris King Bottom Bracket, which will be red. I will also be replacing the SRAM S150 like you. Did you happen to get a weight difference, I can figure out how much the Red and CK will weigh but haven't been able to find a definitive weight on the S150 and BB I saw something that said S150 was ~1100g's. Any other thoughts on this set up?

SS-


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## amidroc

SilverStar07 said:


> I will be doing this same upgrade soon, probably right after Christmas. I just ordered the Red Crankset (with compact silver rings not the black one's) and I still need to order the Chris King Bottom Bracket, which will be red. I will also be replacing the SRAM S150 like you. Did you happen to get a weight difference, I can figure out how much the Red and CK will weigh but haven't been able to find a definitive weight on the S150 and BB I saw something that said S150 was ~1100g's. Any other thoughts on this set up?
> 
> SS-


Sorry I didn't get the chance to weigh the bike before and after. I was too excited to install it. I do remember the weight of the S150 BB (power spline) was a bit heavy. I would go as far as saying it was heavier than my old Shimano MTB bottom bracket.

I do notice a difference. It wasn't a dramatic difference but a difference none the less. I noticed the bike seemed easier to get up to speed and my crank effort was well...effortless. 

I am happy with the upgrade. 

I'm not sure what to do with the old crank. I have been noodling the idea to pick up a old bike to restore. the old crank would work. or buy a single speed and convert it to a two speed. for now its sitting in the RED box in the garage pretending to be something it's not.


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## SilverStar07

Well my reason for doing the upgrade is I keep having problems with the ISIS BB, so anything is better than what I have. I was actually looking for a Rival Crankset when I came across the deal on the Red Crankset and I was planning on using a Chris King BB any way so the Red's lack of BB is a non-issue. Thanks for your input and I am glad your still happy.

I will try to get weights on all the parts as I go and post them here when I am done, so there is a reference for others making the same upgrade.

SS-


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## amidroc

hopefully when you get the old BB out of there it doesnt look like my this old shimano BB (from another bike).

YIKES!!


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## SilverStar07

Well considering I don't ride it in the rain and it is only 2 years old, it better not look like that yikes If it looks like that I've got other issues. The problem I am having is I am having to have the S150 ISIS BB re-packed every ~500 miles because it starts creaking/clunking.

SS-


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## SilverStar07

My new Chris King BB came in, and I had it and the SRAM Red crankset installed on sat. I did get some weights as well the SRAM S150 crankset (175mm) and BB weigh a whopping 1070g and my new set-up SRAM Red crankset (175mm) and Chris King BB weigh 770g. I haven't had a chance to ride it yet, I am hoping to get it on the trainer and put some miles on it. Here are some pictures.

View attachment 275784


View attachment 275785


View attachment 275787


View attachment 275788


SS-


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## microcircit

*Apex Derailleur*



new2rd said:


> I shed 270 grams when I swapped mine out with the compact Force 50-34 w/ GXP. Not bad, but it's not anywhere close to what is considered a light bike. It's in the mid 17's as it sits right now.
> View attachment 250980


Hello! We have the same bike. Is there a need to change the Apex Front Derailleur to Red? Thanks a lot!


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## new2rd

microcircit said:


> Hello! We have the same bike. Is there a need to change the Apex Front Derailleur to Red? Thanks a lot!


Micro,

I don't have the Roubaix anymore. I ended up getting a Tarmac SL3 Frame last year, however I'm not a big fan of the front shifting with this set-up. My original Roubaix built with Apex never gave me one problem, but for some reason I've been dropping chains. I'm still working on a fix for a smoother faster chainring shift. I might try an Ultegra FD or take the hit and get the new YAW SRAM Red FD. Still deciding. I haven't dropped the chain in a little while, but it's still slow and sloppy getting up to the big chainring.


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## subguy658

*Apex to Rival Upgrade - BB Shell Face Question*



amidroc said:


> I received my SRAM RED crank and cris king BB this afternoon. I couldn't wait to install it.
> 
> first having the right tools makes the job much easier. second having the right tools makes the job much easier.
> 
> removing the existing sram S150 crank and look pedals was a snap. the power spline bottom bracket was a different story. this is where having the right tools came in handy. i used Park Tool BBT-22 and the non drive side was easy it drive side took a little more effort.


I have a Roubaix Elite also, by the looks of your photos the same year and everything. I have posted a question to bike forums related to this upgrade. Since you do your own wrenching and did this job recently, I was hoping maybe you could comment on it. The link to the thread is called, 

"www(dot)bikeforums(dot)net/showthread(dot)php/873947"

(Sorry, I don't have enough posts to paste links)

Specifically, if you could address my concerns about the lack of a face on the non-drive side of the BB shell, and perhaps tell me how your BB is holding up since installation (i.e.: not coming loose or anything), I would really appreciate it. I want to upgrade to Rival, but do not wish to damage the shell as a consequence. I have all the tools needed, and have had my power spline apart many times. I am just concerned about the lack of that face (see post). Thanks loads!


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