# 700x23c vs. 700x25c



## Drummerboy1975

I've been running 700x23c. I just picked up an '06 Specialized Allez Sport Triple with a set of Reason EA70's and 700x25c. They look huge compared to the 23's. Now I'm not very big. 5'8" 216lbs. The tires look super close to the seat tube and chain stays. 

My question is, what's the advantages of running that size tire rather than a 23c? Being that I'm not a super big guy, is it over kill for me? Please excuse the non drive side photos. I had just purchased it and took a quick photo. I still need to clean it up and adjust it for myself.


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## mushroomking

25C tires have a bit plusher ride, I run them on my commuter. If you ride a bike with 23c then jump on a bike with 25c you will feel the difference. 23c are more mainstream and a hair cheaper and lighter.


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## bigbill

If you ride a good quality 25mm tire, you won't notice any difference in performance, just less beat up at the end of a ride. I did the 2008 Seattle to Portland on 25mm tires (conti 4 season) and averaged just under 20mph for the 200 miles (10 hours, 14 minutes).


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## ohdee

Drummer, no offense, but 216 lbs qualifies as a "big boy" as far as cycling is concerned (I am 185-190 and openly admit I am fat). You should be running 25's to enjoy the benefit of lower pressures, more shock absorption, and less pinch flat potential. If the tires don't rub the frame then you are fine.


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## Mike T.

Drummerboy1975 said:


> I'm not very big. 5'8" 216lbs.
> My question is, what's the advantages of running that size tire rather than a 23c? Being that I'm not a super big guy, is it over kill for me?


Pardon me? I'm 5' 8" and 175lbs and even *I* am 25lbs overweight. When I road raced decades ago I weighed 150lbs. You would benefit greatly from 25mm tires aired to the correct pressure. At my weight I use 90psi in my 25s.

You would feel much more comfort rather than the harsh ride of your hard 23mm tires.

Read this article - 

Tech FAQ: Seriously, wider tires have lower rolling resistance than their narrower brethren


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## savagemann

At my size, I'd make the op look " not that big" @ 6'3" & 290lbs 
Ideally I should be running a minimum of 28c tires if not 38c, but I get along just fine with 23c tires.
Granted I have to run them at 120psi. Have set them up to 130 before.
I tried some 25c gatorskins and could really feel the extra rolling resistance.
On my regular ride I went from 18mph avg down to 17mph avg.
I tried them for a few rides and the data was the same.
Could just be the gatorskin is slower rolling than the vredestein fortezzas i usually run, but I could really feel the difference.
I need every advantage I can get, and slower "feeling" tires were not going to cut it for me.
But I am willing to trade a little comfort for speed.
The 25s were a lot more comfortable though.


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## Drummerboy1975

So at my current fighting weight of 216 and 25's, how much pressure should I run? I have 100psi in them currently.


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## cxwrench

savagemann said:


> At my size, I'd make the op look " not that big" @ 6'3" & 290lbs
> Ideally I should be running a minimum of 28c tires if not 38c, but I get along just fine with 23c tires.
> Granted I have to run them at 120psi. Have set them up to 130 before.
> I tried some 25c gatorskins and could really feel the *extra rolling resistance*.
> On my regular ride I went from 18mph avg down to 17mph avg.
> I tried them for a few rides and the data was the same.
> Could just be the gatorskin is slower rolling than the vredestein fortezzas i usually run, but I could really feel the difference.
> I need every advantage I can get, and slower "feeling" tires were not going to cut it for me.
> But I am willing to trade a little comfort for speed.
> The 25s were a lot more comfortable though.


wrong.
if you're inflating your 23mm (not 'c') tires to 120/130, you need bigger tires. the 25mm tire at 100-110psi will have LESS rolling resistance than the 23mm tire at higher pressure, ***if the brand/model is the same***. you didn't slow down because you went to 25mm tires and there was added rolling resistance. it might have been a weight difference, or you went slower around corners for some reason.


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## r.shoemaker78

Well that really depends on the tire and tubes you are running and what they are rated for but at your weight I would suggest something in the 110 psi range for the rear and 90-100 psi front. Then again I like a little more pressure in my tires to prevent pinch flats, those are the pressures I run in my 700x25c tires and I weigh 176 lbs.


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## Cinelli 82220

Drummerboy1975 said:


> Now I'm not very big. 5'8" 216lbs


For cyclist that's big!

You got 20+ pounds on me. I use 25c and love the plush ride.


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## savagemann

cxwrench said:


> wrong.
> if you're inflating your 23mm (not 'c') tires to 120/130, you need bigger tires. the 25mm tire at 100-110psi will have LESS rolling resistance than the 23mm tire at higher pressure, ***if the brand/model is the same***. you didn't slow down because you went to 25mm tires and there was added rolling resistance. it might have been a weight difference, or you went slower around corners for some reason.


The fortezza tires I run have a recommended min psi of 115 & a max of 160.

The gatorskins have a max of 120.

As far as minimum psi goes, I understand that is just what manufacturers recommend, and the proper min psi is preferential.
Max should not be exceeded.

I tried the gskins at 100 for the first ride. Felt like I was going to pinch flat.
Second ride at 110psi. Felt about right, but still slow.
Third ride at 120 max psi and still "felt" slow compared to the fortezza.

Compared my gps data from my regular avg on the exact same 30 mile route.
All 3 rides were 1 mph slower with the gskins.
While it is not perfect to quantify data like that only over 3 rides, there was a pattern.
They "felt" slower and my gps showed some proof of that.
Could be my avg was slower due to wind, stop lights etc, but there is no denying the fact they "felt" slower.

Its not exactly comparing apples to apples since they are totally different tires.
Maybe the gskin is just a slower tire in general.

As far as my mistake saying 25c, I should know better.700c 25mm.
Got em mixed up in my freshly woken state.

Tires and psi are such preference things, the 2 combined are like suggesting saddles.
Merely sharing my experience with the op being a bigger cyclist.

The only way to know what tires and psi works for any one person,unfortunately is to buy them and try them.
Which can get expensive.
You should see my stash of mtb tires. Its ridiculous.


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## Mike T.

r.shoemaker78 said:


> 110 psi range for the rear and 90-100 psi front. Then again I like a little more pressure in my tires to prevent pinch flats, those are the pressures I run in my 700x25c tires and I weigh 176 lbs.


I'm your weight and have never used more than 90psi in my 25s and have never had a pinch flat, even going down dirt/gravel roads occasionally.


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## jheeno

good read on rolling resistance 
Tech FAQ: Seriously, wider tires have lower rolling resistance than their narrower brethren


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## Drummerboy1975

I think these tires will be great.


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## Blue CheeseHead

Drummerboy1975 said:


> So at my current fighting weight of 216 and 25's, how much pressure should I run? I have 100psi in them currently.


This is not a bad place to start:
http://www.bikequarterly.com/images/TireDrop.pdf

I use the chart by multilplying (my weight + the bike) x .55 to find the weight on the rear wheel and (my weight + the bike) x .45 to find the weight on the front wheel.

The results seem reasonable.


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## Mapei

I've put my share of miles on 23's, and 25's (and 24's, too) and I say this -- 25's ride ever so slightly more plushly but are slightly less precise when it comes to handling. 25's also generate more road noise than the smaller diameter tires. I am unable to discern one iota of difference in rolling resistance. My last set of 25 tires (Vittoria Diamante Pros) were outstandingly reliable, much more so than any 23 I've ever used.. I haven't gotten enough miles on my 24's (Conti's) to make an assessment here. Of course, my experience is anecdotal and your mileage will certainly vary.


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## Kerry Irons

*Nope*



savagemann said:


> I tried some 25c gatorskins and could really feel the extra rolling resistance. On my regular ride I went from 18mph avg down to 17mph avg.


If you slowed down by 1 mph it was NOT due to the tires. Thre is no way that much exptra power (13%) would be chewed up by the tires.


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## mfdemicco

I think the wider tires give a better ride and handle better. However most frames do not have much clearance, and you wind up picking up little rocks that get pulled through, making noise and scratching the brake and frame/form. As a result, I'm running 23s.


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## Vitamin G

140 lbs, and I used to ride 25s, but my new bike/fork favors 23s (not much clearance on an Easton Ec70 fork). Ride the 25s. They are better, if they fit your fork/frame. I used to ride them at 95-100 psi. I still ride my 23s at 100 psi.


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## Drummerboy1975

Went for a 26 miler today and they rode great. My only complaint was the rocks that would fly up and hit my rear drop outs. But that's no biggie that I can't live with. 

I'm sold on 25C's. They are tight but fit fine.


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## NJBiker72

Kerry Irons said:


> If you slowed down by 1 mph it was NOT due to the tires. Thre is no way that much exptra power (13%) would be chewed up by the tires.


I definitely gained a bit with 23's but I am betting that the difference described here is due to heavier Gatorskins. Nice tough tires. Similar to my refuse but not fast.


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## cxwrench

savagemann said:


> The fortezza tires I run have a recommended min psi of 115 & a max of 160.
> 
> The gatorskins have a max of 120.
> 
> As far as minimum psi goes, I understand that is just what manufacturers recommend, and the proper min psi is preferential.
> Max should not be exceeded.
> 
> I tried the gskins at 100 for the first ride. Felt like I was going to pinch flat.
> Second ride at 110psi. Felt about right, but still slow.
> Third ride at 120 max psi and still "felt" slow compared to the fortezza.
> 
> Compared my gps data from my regular avg on the exact same 30 mile route.
> All 3 rides were 1 mph slower with the gskins.
> While it is not perfect to quantify data like that only over 3 rides, there was a pattern.
> They "felt" slower and my gps showed some proof of that.
> Could be my avg was slower due to wind, stop lights etc, but there is no denying the fact they "felt" slower.
> 
> Its not exactly comparing apples to apples since they are totally different tires.
> Maybe the gskin is just a slower tire in general.
> 
> As far as my mistake saying 25c, I should know better.700c 25mm.
> Got em mixed up in my freshly woken state.
> 
> Tires and psi are such preference things, the 2 combined are like suggesting saddles.
> Merely sharing my experience with the op being a bigger cyclist.
> 
> The only way to know what tires and psi works for any one person,unfortunately is to buy them and try them.
> Which can get expensive.
> *You should see my stash of mtb tires. Its ridiculous.*


oh man...does your pile of mtb tires find interesting places to hang because you're too lazy to clean all the stans sealant out of them like me? i've got sooo many tires laying around. the shop i'm at is about 3-4mi from WTB global headquarters (!) and we're always getting new stuff to try. can't remember the last time i actually wore out a tire...i think i need to ride more!


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## savagemann

cxwrench said:


> oh man...does your pile of mtb tires find interesting places to hang because you're too lazy to clean all the stans sealant out of them like me? i've got sooo many tires laying around. the shop i'm at is about 3-4mi from WTB global headquarters (!) and we're always getting new stuff to try. can't remember the last time i actually wore out a tire...i think i need to ride more!


Not running tubeless yet. Plan to once I get down a little bit in weight.
So no worries about stans,yet!

Actually, the wife was kind enough to "allow" me to take up a whole cabinet near the kitchen to store my bike extra bike parts.
I roll all my tires up and rubber band them tight.
They take up a whole shelf,about 2'x2'x3'deep.
Insane! But I have tires for pretty much any riding condition.
I have 2 sets just for Downieville and Northstar rides. Trail King 2.4 & Hans Dampfs.
Current fav are the wtb bronson race 2.3.
Im gonna need to find a new shelf for all the road tires soon.....Hahaha
I recently reorganized the shelf,and there are a lot more than shown in the picture.


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## Drummerboy1975

A buddy is looking at couple of bikes with 700x20 tires. Those have to ride harsh!


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