# Cracked Seat Stay 2009 Fuji SL-1



## raymond7204 (Sep 22, 2008)

I posted this in the Fuji forum but figured I'd share it here as well. 

Was out on an easy ride today...rolling hills and not too tough. After a quick decent, the bike felt sluggish, as if the brake was rubbing. I was getting irate since no matter how hard I pedaled, I kept falling back. These guys weren't that much faster than me. 

I finally stopped and noticed that the seat stay was cracked all the way through. I'm not exactly sure when it happened...possibly on the climb. I'm fortunate that there wasn't a catastrophic failure on the fast decent. 

The next step is to see if Fuji and Performance will replace the frame under warranty. The bike is just a year old and has never been crashed. Other than the crack, it's in pristine condition.

Here are pics.

Ray


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## skyliner1004 (May 9, 2010)

Please go straight to performance and see what they'll do to help you. This instance (yours) is very important to all people here who shop at performance bike. My instance with them tells me that their customer service sucks, ymmv. Let us know what they say.

Whats Fuji's frame warranty?


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## backinthesaddle (Nov 22, 2006)

Call Fuji directly. Skip the step of f'ing with Performance.


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## bikersteve (Mar 25, 2004)

Fuji has terrific customer service on frame exchanges, but you have to go through a bike shop that deals with them. Some performances are better than others. If yours isn't doing what you like, just find a LBS that sells fuji and they'll handle the warranty. The other shop my want to charge you to move your old parts to the new frame, which is reasonable. 

I did something similar to my Fuji team frame and I had a new frame 2 days after i showed up at the shop.


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## raymond7204 (Sep 22, 2008)

I know that people had had varied experiences with Performance, but my experience with them has always been good. When I lived in San Diego, the folks at my nearest Performance Bike Shop were pretty good. I was a frequent lurker and occasional customer so I got to build a decent relationship with the staff. 

Unfortunately, I don't live in San Diego anymore and the nearest PBS is 4 hours away. I may be doing a road trip this weekend.

I have always been a bit conflicted with Performance. Because they are national, their prices always undercut the smaller local shops. While I want to support the small shops, my money goes further at Performance. Kind of like Home Depot's effect on the local hardware store.

Ray


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

Fuji does have good warranty service. If there isn't a Performance in close proximity to you and you have all your receipts, etc., they may cut you some slack or refer you to a Fuji dealer closer to you for inspection of the frame. My LBS sells a good number of them and, while frame issues don't happen often, Fuji seems to step up when they do. Too bad about the SL-1, several of my friends have that frame and have not encountered similar problems or any problems for that matter.


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## Bruce X. (Nov 19, 2008)

My feedback is to go to the store you bought it from and allow them to handle the warranty. Odds are Fuji is going to require you to try that option first. 

I'm a frequent customer of Performance and have received excellent service from their San Antonio store, or over the phone when placing an order from their service center. 

Performance does have good prices because they are a national chain and can leverage that buying power, but I think another reason they have a reputation for undercutting the LBS is they focus on carrying brands and products, with prices working Joe's like me can afford. 

My experience is that a lot of LBS's carry too many elite brand items targeted to upper income riders. Not everyone can afford or needs a $90 jersey for a workout ride. 

No store is perfect, but for my money Performance offers a lot of bang for the buck with very good customer service. I would be surprised if Performance doesn't take care of you with this warranty issue. Keep us posted on the process. 

BTW, I don't work for the store and neither does my girlfriend.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

Take the bike back into where you purchased it. Fuji will tell you to do that. It has to go through an authorized dealer. The tech there will need to take pictures of the damaged area - or use the pictures you posted - and email them to the warranty dept of Fuji.

Fuji is pretty good about warranting their products. If they warranty the frame - which shouldn't be an issue IME - they will send you a new SL1 RC frame to replace the broken one. 

You probably will be responsible cost wise for the disassembly and reassembly as that is not covered by the warranty of the manufacturers.


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## raymond7204 (Sep 22, 2008)

I took the bike to a local Fuji dealer and he agreed to honor the warranty. I will have to pay about $130 to build up the new bike when the frame arrives. The other option is to drive five hours to the nearest Performance Bike shop to drop it off, and then drive back again a few weeks later once the bike is complete. As much as I like Performance, I'd rather spend the $130 and deal with it locally.

The manager of the shop gave the bike a very thorough inspection to make sure it wasn't crashed or abused. He also mentioned that he'd never seen a bike frame with such a "clean" crack. He's going to talk with Fuji tomorrow morning to figure out my options so it looks very promising.

The blue Fuji-Servetto frame looks very nice.

Ray


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## raymond7204 (Sep 22, 2008)

I agree with you completely. I'm perfectly happy with Performance's plain but functional and inexpensive jerseys and shorts. 

Ray


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## wedge962005 (Jan 4, 2010)

I too have a Fuji from Performance and I'm interested in how this works out. Please post on your outcome.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*sure seems*

like we're seeing alot more broken bikes these days


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## raymond7204 (Sep 22, 2008)

wedge962005 said:


> I too have a Fuji from Performance and I'm interested in how this works out. Please post on your outcome.



I spent a lot of time on the phone yesterday with Performance (Corporate and the "local" store manager) and I'm confident that they'll replace the frame. Performance has always been good about taking any returns.

Like I mentioned earlier though, the nearest Performance is 5 hours away so I'm getting a local shop to handle the warranty claim.

It really is up to Fuji now.


Ray


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

Sounds like your local Fuji dealer is stepping up to help you out. $130 seems like a fair price for stripping your parts off the broken frame and rebuilding the new bike for you. My LBS usually charges about $100 for an initial build, so stripping the broken frame for an extra $30 seems like a good deal for you....instead of the 10+ hours of driving you mentioned to deal with a Performance shop. Hope everything works out OK for you.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

That sucks that you have to go through that but it happens with every brand. I used to have the old aluminum 16 lb. 2006 Fuji Roubaix SL that was purchased at Performance. The frame cracked on the drive side chainstay and the Performance I went to literally took a 60 cm frame that they already had and built up my bike with it. I also had that the same experience with a wheelset I bought from them. Year and a half after purchase, they simply swapped my old wheel for my new one. That may not always be the case with complete bikes but I know that Performance has a stellar return policy on their merchandise.


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## DY123 (Oct 5, 2006)

Why should he have to pay anything to have a frame rebuilt? If it is covered by warranty it shouldn't cost him a dime.


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## roadboy (Apr 1, 2003)

Just because the frame is under warranty does not mean labor is covered. Labor is usually only good for one year.


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## raymond7204 (Sep 22, 2008)

DY123 said:


> Why should he have to pay anything to have a frame rebuilt? If it is covered by warranty it shouldn't cost him a dime.


If I took it back to the store where I bought the bike, it wouldn't cost me a dime. Perfroamnce is very good about returns.

I now live 5 hours away from the Performance shop, so taking it back means a 5 hour drive to drop off the bike, 5 hours home, another 5 hours a few weeks later to pick it up once the bike is rebuilt, and the 5 hour trip home again. And then there is the issue of a hotel if I decided to stick around for the night.

$130 is worth the convenience. Not ideal, but good enough.

Ray


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## wedge962005 (Jan 4, 2010)

I get your sentiment but that just isn't how it works. The warranty itself covers the item that fails. The manufacturer almost never covers labor in that warranty. Some LBSs will cover the cost of the strip/re-build but most don't because they simply can't. Performance is pretty well known for doing it but I wouldn't exactly call them "local."


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## raymond7204 (Sep 22, 2008)

Unfortunately, Fuji declined to replace under warranty. 

They claim that the break is due to impact and not a defect.

The frame is now off to RoadRunnerVelo for repair.

The downsides of carbon.

Ray


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*performance bikes*

as a 'satisfaction guaranteed' policy
bring it in and say "I'm not satisfied'
I'll ride my steel bike to work tomorrow thinking about it


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## shabbasuraj (May 14, 2005)

Wow. Most companies will rreally question the atypical break like yours. Sux


Steel is...........


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## redmr2_man (Dec 22, 2009)

atpjunkie said:


> as a 'satisfaction guaranteed' policy
> bring it in and say "I'm not satisfied'
> I'll ride my steel bike to work tomorrow thinking about it


^this.

now it IS worth the five hour drive. PB replaces anything, no questions asked.

do it.


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

Did you crash the bike prior? 

I might have missed it though I was under the presumption this was almost a JRL scenario.


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## Hula Hoop (Feb 4, 2009)

I don't get it. You chose to pay RRvelo $400 and will get a damage repaired frame
and could have a new frame for a five hour ride. I had a crack in the same place, not
as bad on a similar 'ultra-light' frame. In my case, I had to bunny hop a culvert, but
no way should that have cracked a frame.Most ironically the companies 2010 models
boast a new resin that is 40% more resistant to impact damage. Implicit admission
and lots of good that does me. Mine is on its way back from Calfee, was going to go
with RRvelo but they were not returning my correspondence. In the quest for lightweightedness, some of these frames are just not durable enough. There is no
excuse for manufacturers to put out products like that. BTW, are you sure there was
no significant impact involved?


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## raymond7204 (Sep 22, 2008)

Hula Hoop said:


> I don't get it. You chose to pay RRvelo $400 and will get a damage repaired frame
> and could have a new frame for a five hour ride. I had a crack in the same place, not
> as bad on a similar 'ultra-light' frame. In my case, I had to bunny hop a culvert, but
> no way should that have cracked a frame.Most ironically the companies 2010 models
> ...


You misunderstood. I don't believe that I would have gotten a replacement at Performance Bike. When I spoke to them, they told me that they would have to work through Fuji to get a replacement. Performance Bike Shop wasn't going to just replace the frame for me. It would still have to go to Fuji for a warranty assessment.

Rather than drive 5 hours to Performance, I elected to take it to a local Fuji dealer. He inspected the frame and confirmed that it wasn't crashed. He then submitted a warranty claim to Fuji. The dealer actually thought Fuji would replace the frame. 

After a few days, Fuji decided to decline the warranty repair stating that they believed the frame was damaged due to impact. 

Whether it be Performance or the local Fuji dealer, Fuji had the final say on the warranty and they chose not to replace the frame.

Ray


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## dot (Mar 4, 2004)

that's a good lesson: buy from people who can replace you a broken expensive one. I've been doing this for 10 years and have had 3 frames replaced without a hitch.


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## Erion929 (Jun 10, 2010)

If you've given up on getting a new frame from Fuji under warranty, why not ask them if they will let you buy one at cost? :idea: 

**


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## Hooben (Aug 22, 2004)

If you've given up on getting a new frame from Fuji under warranty, why not tell them to take a flying leap....oh, I guess I just did that.
I was liking the way the new Fuji looked, but not so much anymore!


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## Erion929 (Jun 10, 2010)

Well, yeah, if it were mine and I hadn't truely crashed, I would fight 'em on the warranty....make them show me how it was damaged. Sometimes you just have to pursue the issue more than once. Companies often blow it off the first time...only to retract their statements after further review, if not just to get you to go away.

**


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## raymond7204 (Sep 22, 2008)

Erion929 said:


> Well, yeah, if it were mine and I hadn't truely crashed, I would fight 'em on the warranty....make them show me how it was damaged. Sometimes you just have to pursue the issue more than once. Companies often blow it off the first time...only to retract their statements after further review, if not just to get you to go away.
> 
> **


I've been going back and forth with Fuji (directly and through the dealer) for a few weeks. I've posted general highlights of the issue on this forum, but I'm not exactly giving you guys a play-by-play of EVERY conversation with Fuji. 

I have fought them on the warranty. They have refused. I've contacted as many people as I possibly could at Fuji and they have refused. I'm not so inept that I'm letting this go at the first sign of defeat. I'd like to think that I'm a fairly good negotiator and I've done quite a bit of research.

That being said, I can't force Fuji to replace the frame. If you search the forums, you'll find that many others have had similar experiences with Fuji. 

Fuji offered a replacement frame for $1500. The MSRP for the frame is $2999 so you make the call if it's a good deal. I chose to get it repaired for considerably less.

The point of this thread is to give others insight on my experience with Fuji. The SL1 is a very fast, lightweight frame and it really was a joy to ride. I don't think it's a bad bike and considering I paid $1900 for it new, I still got a good deal. 

Unfortunately, it cracked and Fuji refused to replace. I've learned now that Trek and Specialized are much better when it comes to replacing frames. Hopefully others will take this into consideration when they buy a new bike.

Ray


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

This is the sux. 
At least you'll get it fixed for a lot less than their offer for a new frame.


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## DrJordon (Mar 23, 2009)

Note to self, avoid Fuji like the plague!


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## RoadEye (Aug 21, 2009)

dot said:


> that's a good lesson: buy from people who can replace you a broken expensive one. I've been doing this for 10 years and have had 3 frames replaced without a hitch.


no, the real lesson is not to buy a fuji again. their own authorized dealer, who actually saw the bike, said there was no crash/impact, what more do they want?


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## Erion929 (Jun 10, 2010)

raymond7204 said:


> I've been going back and forth with Fuji (directly and through the dealer) for a few weeks. I've posted general highlights of the issue on this forum, but I'm not exactly giving you guys a play-by-play of EVERY conversation with Fuji.
> 
> I have fought them on the warranty. They have refused. I've contacted as many people as I possibly could at Fuji and they have refused. I'm not so inept that I'm letting this go at the first sign of defeat. I'd like to think that I'm a fairly good negotiator and I've done quite a bit of research.
> 
> ...




Ok, that all sounds like you did all you could...that's the only thing I was wondering. Some people just give up after the first call.

Pretty screwed, if they can't prove it was crashed, what's a warranty for? :mad2: 

**


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

raymond7204 said:


> I've been going back and forth with Fuji (directly and through the dealer) for a few weeks. I've posted general highlights of the issue on this forum, but I'm not exactly giving you guys a play-by-play of EVERY conversation with Fuji.
> 
> I have fought them on the warranty. They have refused. I've contacted as many people as I possibly could at Fuji and they have refused. I'm not so inept that I'm letting this go at the first sign of defeat. I'd like to think that I'm a fairly good negotiator and I've done quite a bit of research.
> 
> ...


Also, don't forget Felt. They replaced one of my frames without even looking at it. The LBS I went to called them and they never even called back that day. Next day, my new frame arrived at the bike shop. Yeah, I've cracked a few frames but Felt has been the best- followed but Trek and Fuji.


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## skizzle86 (Apr 15, 2010)

I emailed Fuji regarding this claim just out of curiosity and here is their response:

Hi Scott,

Fuji takes every warranty claim requesting our consideration very seriously. I don't know if you examined the pictures (one that he posted on our official Fuji facebook page is attached), but if you take a look at the crack you can see that it does not follow the cross-hatch grain of the carbon. It is true that carbon can crack, but those cracks are results of stress on a weaker bond between the fibers. Those weak bonds, which are manufacturer's defects, result in hairline cracks that stretch and grow along the grain of the carbon until it is visible or the stretching causes very loud creeking. Raymond's frame cracked in a way that we have seen on many crash instances- crossing over the grain of the carbon instead of following along it.

What you may also notice is the damage done to the clearcoat. Clearcoat, which is not a part of the carbon frame, it is a liquid coating applied to the frame that hardens into a shell used to keep the paint and decaling in place and provide a small degree of protection to the frame. When this top coating shows flaking or damage around a crack, it is most likely because of an external force from impact.

I can't 100% sure say what happened with Raymond's frame, but by the looks of the pictures he supplied, it seems like an instance of some external force that impacted the stay. This most often occurs in instances such as multiple bikes on a rear car rack secured too tightly against each other or the bike is stored improperly, or less often from some kind of strike from a falling object. It is likely for those reasons that our Product Services department decided to decline this warranty request and suggest that the frame be repaired by a carbon fabrication facility.

I hope you won't let Raymond's experience sway you from at least considering a Fuji the next time you are in the market for a bike. As I mentioned, we take warranty very seriously and when we recognize a failure in a frame caused by manufacturer's defect or faulty materials, we take care of it. When a frame fails for other reasons, we offer a generous crash replacement program to keep our customers on Fujis because as many proud Fuji owners will tell you, we value quality and great customer service because our customers deserve it.

Thanks for your time,


Rob Gaspari | Advanced Sports
________________________________________
From: [email protected] [[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 6:07 PM
To: Info
Subject: Site: Fuji Subject: Replacement warranty

Customer Name: Scott;
Customer Email: [email protected];
Message: Don't know if you keep up with the Road cycling boards, but if this is the kind of customer service I should expect from Fuji in the future, you just lost alot of future business.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=2878942


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## shabbasuraj (May 14, 2005)

Screw Fuji. Thanks for posting this. I will be informing all of my group rides of this thread (easily a few hundred on the e-mail list)

I have seen frames crack due to a manufacturing defect, and not an impact, which then caused much deflection and thus caused the clear coat to crack, right through and chip away.

Raymond, you tried, we commend you... but you got waxed by their warranty department.

Fuji = FAIL

I guess this is a good reason as to why there are no major Fuji dealers in my large metropolitan city. Clearly, the company has much to learn, and will always be considered a minor player in the industry. Sux 2 b them.


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## raymond7204 (Sep 22, 2008)

This is the same person I dealt with in customer service. I will admit that Fuji was quick to respond to my emails. I am disappointed that he didn't give me the same response as you. The explanation that Mr Gaspari gave you was so much more in-depth than what he gave me.

I disagree with him about the flaking of the clear coat. That was likely caused as a result of the frame cracking. I was riding the bike when the frame failed and twisting and separating motion of seat stay will cause the surrounding clear coat to flake. The flaking goes along with the damaged carbon...which is even more separated on the inside of the frame.

I still stand by the fact that the bike was never crashed, abused, or mishandled. The bike was never placed on a rack and was always transported in the back of a truck secured on a fork mount. I handled it with kid gloves because I know how fragile carbon can be. Unfortunately it failed.

Fuji made the assessment based solely on pictures (not these pictures) and discussions with the dealer. They did offer to examine the frame if I sent it to them (at my cost). If they still did not want to replace the frame under warranty, I would have to pay for return shipping if I wanted the frame returned. The frame repair was estimated to be $225 so I chose to go that route instead.

Not to make this more confusing, but when I sent it to RRVelo for repair, they found another crack in the wishbone, underneath the clear coat. I don't know if this was caused by the seat stay crack, or whether it caused the seat stay crack. At this point, I just needed it fixed and I was done dealing with Fuji. 

As I've said before, I think the SL1 is a great bike. I'm disappointed that it broke but I've learned a valuable lesson. If you enjoy the ride and feel of a carbon bike, be prepared to have to replace it if something were to happen. I'm on an aluminum frame until I get the Fuji back, and I definitely feel the difference.

I plan to continue riding the repaired frame for hopefully a long time but I will seriously consider titanium when I make my next bike purchase.

Ray


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## sa7nt (Jun 28, 2010)

skizzle86 said:


> I hope you won't let Raymond's experience sway you from at least considering a Fuji the next time you are in the market for a bike. As I mentioned, we take warranty very seriously and when we recognize a failure in a frame caused by manufacturer's defect or faulty materials, we take care of it. When a frame fails for other reasons, we offer a generous crash replacement program to keep our customers on Fujis because as many proud Fuji owners will tell you, we value quality and great customer service because our customers deserve it.
> 
> Thanks for your time,
> 
> ...


Mr. Gaspari apparently doesn't understand how customer service works. Had they simply replaced the frame, they likely would have made Ray a loyal Fuji customer and found a few others out there via word of mouth. Instead, they made a snap judgement which thanks to the internet will likely turn off many many potential buyers. 

Mr. Gaspari, if you're reading this (and I hope you are), please note that I currently own a Fuji SST 1.0. It is an awesome frame and I love everything about it. When it comes time to look for another bike, it likely won't be a Fuji as your company does not appear to stand behind their products. The fact that you are quick to call the purchaser of your products a liar regarding the circumstances surrounding the damage says much about your level of professionalism and class. Good luck with your company's future when this is your level of customer service.


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## raymond7204 (Sep 22, 2008)

My intent for this thread wasn't necessarily to turn people against Fuji. I really did like the bike before it failed and I'm sure I'll still like the bike once it's repaired.

I'm just presenting my story. You guys can make your own decisions about Fuji.

I really appreciate all of the support though.

Ray


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*your stay broke 'out'*

which makes me doubt it was from an outside impact
also the direction of the 'flaking' as mr gaspari calls it looks more like again it broke from the inside out not outside in
Now I'm no CF expert but I have damaged and repaired enough surfboards to say I clearly understand breaks in fibre/resin with clearcoat equipment
now considering that the frames cost $300 or so to make it seems the mfr could cover the few that break and still be profitable (unless they are having large #s of breaks)
my guess is this will cost Fuji more in lost sales than the $ to replace the frame
my guess is you won't buy another, nor will anyone here after reading this consider buying one, nor the people the talk to.

really dumb, really really dumb

my ibis hakkalugi steel cx/commuter is 13 years old, still going strong


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## lobo (Jun 10, 2004)

raymond7204 said:


> My intent for this thread wasn't necessarily to turn people against Fuji. I really did like the bike before it failed and I'm sure I'll still like the bike once it's repaired.
> 
> I'm just presenting my story. You guys can make your own decisions about Fuji.
> 
> ...


 I am not Fuji owner but have one question : how much do you weigh Ray ?


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## Sebastionmerckx (Mar 6, 2008)

I was riding with one of my friends today and he remarked about seeing this thread and that up until he read it, he was all set to buy a Fuji....Needless to say, he is no longer considering them.


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## raymond7204 (Sep 22, 2008)

lobo said:


> I am not Fuji owner but have one question : how much do you weigh Ray ?


I weigh 170. I'm not a big guy, but I'm not super thin like a pro.

Ray


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## raymond7204 (Sep 22, 2008)

One other thing I failed to mention was that I was a loyal Fuji customer. This was my second Fuji road bike. Both bikes were purchased from authorized Fuji dealers. I did mention that to Fuji but it didn't help.

Ray


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## wedge962005 (Jan 4, 2010)

I posted on the other thread and was nudged to get over here as well. I have sadly experienced a similar issue and am in the middle of fighting it right now. I just read the rest of this thread and I'm amazed. Part of me is hoping they send that same argument my way because I'm going to have them for breakfast. My wife is a manufacturing engineer who specializes in carbon parts for the US military. She and her coworkers all agree that there is no way the damage I have could have been from impact. I will have a field day if they go this route any further.

Additionally, I'd be furious if Fuji discussed my warranty claim details with a third party. I can post and share what I choose to post and share but they have no right to release details of my claim to the public.

Here is my post from thread: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=218744

-This is hard for me to believe. Yet, I have a cracked left chainstay on my 2007 Team RC and am having similar problems. I took it back into Performance and they were cool, they even looked to see if they had a frame they could loan me. Pictures were sent to Fuji who quickly responded that it had to be "impact" damage and offered me their "Crash Replacement" program. To say I was/am furious may be the understatement of the year. The guys at Performance couldn't believe it either, they knew from looking at it that this was purely a defect in the frame, the location of the break alone makes it nearly impossible to have an impact.

Three weeks later the management at Performance finally convinced Fuji that they were a bit hasty on their response and that they should take the frame back to at least look at it. Now well into week four, the frame is at Fuji and we hear nothing but silence from them. I want to believe the guys at the shop when they say that as soon as the guys at Fuji see it they will understand and provide the current replacement frame option, with C-7 carbon. Your story makes me believe I'm in for a long ride though.

I'm sorry to hear the OP got this repaired. The bike will never be the same and Performance should have made this right. If Fuji refused to honor their warranty and he did not wish to sue them in small claims court then Performance has a very clearly written guarantee that would come into play. I can tell you this, in my situation either Fuji or Performance is going to have to step up and supply me with a comparable module and I will spend a quick day in small claims court if I have to do it.-'

The part of this that kills me is the wait. I know they are going to hold the line on this BS and I'm just wasting weeks.


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## rcjunkie3000 (Sep 5, 2009)

*Wilier!*

Hey Raymond get a Wilier Izoard :thumbsup: . That's what I have now. See pics in profile. Titanium is sweet too. I have a Ti MTB.

I responded to your posts earlier in the year in the other thread "Performance did a great Job..."

I got the Fuji SL-1 and was happy with it. Had 4 Fujis and even as of yesterday recommended the 09 SL-1 to a friend who almost bought it until he read this thread. I was trying to show him a picture of your 47cm bike and this new thread popped up first.

Needless to say he got turned off after what he read and after reading the response you received he decided to go with another brand. You saved him a $1500 mistake. I definitely will be steering away from Fuji.  

What Ti bike/framesets have you been looking at?


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## raymond7204 (Sep 22, 2008)

*Update - Thanks a lot Fuji*

.....


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## raymond7204 (Sep 22, 2008)

Here is the latest update that I'm sure will generate a lot of comments.

I was contacted by Fuji Customer Service on Sunday. They had become aware of this thread (thanks Skizzle86) and decided to look into the situation a bit more. 

Although the Product Services Department will stand by their denial of the warranty claim, the Customer Service Department has chosen to cut them out of the equation and wants to make things right with me. 

I am in no way trying to take advantage of Fuji or the situation, and all I was initially hoping for was a replacement for my SL1. Rob at Customer Service had learned through this thread that I was already getting the frame repaired so he asked if they could offer me a different frame to satisfy me as a customer. Fuji is now sending me (via the dealer) a 2010 Kestral Airfoil frameset. Needless to say, I'm very happy with how this turned out. 

I need to make three points on this entire issue. 

First, I commend Fuji for their efforts to make this right. They could have easily just stood by their initial decision, but they took the time to reconsider and now I'm getting the best deal possible. I'm sure that Fuji receives quite a few warranty claims and I have to assume that most legitimate claims are handled quickly and properly. Mine was one that just slipped through the cracks.

Second, the influence of this forum is amazing. I greatly appreciate all of the support that everyone has given me and this issue. This forum played a big part in getting all of the information out to Fuji and other members. If anything, this proves that Fuji is very concerned about customer service and wants to be known as a company that takes good care of its customers. 

Third, I started this thread to present my story so you could form your own opinions and judgments. While I was disappointed with the situation, I never attacked Fuji, never said anything bad about the company, or spoke poorly of their products. I've always said that the SL1 is an amazing bike, and now I'm lucky enough to be able to formulate my own opinion on the Kestrel Airfoil. 


Kudos to Rob at Fuji for making me a satisfied customer. For others that are having similar issues, I hope your experience turns out as well as mine. This wasn't the ideal scenario, but in the end, they made it right. 

Ray


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## rcjunkie3000 (Sep 5, 2009)

That's good that Fuji customer service cares. Same people from Advanced Sports Inc?
I am glad you are able to work this out. Good luck with the new frame and post some pics :thumbsup:


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## raymond7204 (Sep 22, 2008)

rcjunkie3000 said:


> Hey Raymond get a Wilier Izoard :thumbsup: . That's what I have now. See pics in profile. Titanium is sweet too. I have a Ti MTB.
> 
> I responded to your posts earlier in the year in the other thread "Performance did a great Job..."
> 
> ...


That Wilier is a sweet looking bike.

I was looking at Litespeed and Lynskey, but I'm not in the market for a new bike anymore.

Ray


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## skizzle86 (Apr 15, 2010)

That is good news indeed, glad everything worked out for you.


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

Good news...thanks for updating us. 
Enjoy the new frame. :thumbsup:


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## lockwood1 (Nov 5, 2008)

:thumbsup:


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## Erion929 (Jun 10, 2010)

Good to see some common sense decisions at Fuji :thumbsup: 

Good job by the forum!
**


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## raymond7204 (Sep 22, 2008)

rcjunkie3000 said:


> That's good that Fuji customer service cares. Same people from Advanced Sports Inc?
> I am glad you are able to work this out. Good luck with the new frame and post some pics :thumbsup:


Yes, it's Advance Sports that's dealing with me. It's really been great.

Pics will be up eventually. It's going to take me a while to get the bike built. While this is a great success story, it's also a net loss in money for me. I now have to shell out even more cash for components to build up the new bike. That's a problem I'm happy to have though. 

Ray


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## Italianrider76 (May 13, 2005)

Good story but why can't they just give you a new SL1 frame instead of the Kestrel, I mean...that was your original frame was it not?


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## lockwood1 (Nov 5, 2008)

Hey raymond7204 the dealer replace you the frame but gave you a Kestrel instead of Fuji frame? I don't get it.


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## blantonator (Apr 25, 2007)

Italianrider76 said:


> Good story but why can't they just give you a new SL1 frame instead of the Kestrel, I mean...that was your original frame was it not?


because he had his broken frame repaired. Who needs two road identical road bikes, when you can have a TT bike as well!


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## raymond7204 (Sep 22, 2008)

Let me clear this up a bit. Fuji offered the replacement AFTER I had already sent the SL1 out for repair. 

At the time, I wasn't expecting Fuji to come through to I sent the SL1 to RRVelo for repair. I've already paid for the frame repair so I didn't need another road frame. 

Fuji understood this so they gave me the option of a different frame set...my choice of what was available and comparable. 

It was actually Rob at Customer Service that recommended the Kestrel Airfoil. After a little research, I decided that it was a good choice.

So the end state is:

I had my SL1 repaired at my cost. It's not back yet but I'm confident that the repair will make it as good as new. I know there are some doubters about carbon repairs, but I trust that it will be fine.

I am getting a Kestrel Airfoil Pro Tri frameset from Fuji/Advanced Sports. In the end, I still have to pay a bit more money out of pocket for a group to build it up, but I'm okay with that. I was going to buy a tri bike anyway.

My investment so far was $370 to get the SL1 repaired. What I ended up with is a repaired SL1 and a good carbon triathlon frame.

Was all of this a pain in the ass...a little bit. In the end, Fuji and Advance Sports took great care of me. 

Ray


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## lockwood1 (Nov 5, 2008)

OK now I get it:thumbsup:


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## Christoph (Jul 10, 2009)

Good job, Fuji. I currently ride a Fuji and have loved it, but wasn't too happy with them based on this thread until I just heard what they did for you. Carbon frames break, sure, but companies should give customers the benefit of the doubt when it isn't obvious what caused a problem. 

Again, good job Fuji (love my bike).

Goodwill is priceless.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

Good to hear that Fuji stepped up. I have 3 Fuji's and a Kestrel. 1 Fuji is a Team Rival frameset (same frame as a Team RC) and the Kestrel is a Airfoil Pro SE frameset. Both these frames need repair, so they will both be visiting either Calfee or RRVelo.

I think that Fuji/Kestrel are overlooked when compared to other manufacturers.


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## been200mph (May 28, 2004)

Hmmm.... I thought you'd go and get a steel frame... being carbon is so fragile, lol.


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## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

Why is Fuji getting a pat on the back? Only because of this thread and the fear of looking like total jerks did they finally do the right thing.
Thanks, I would now never buy a Fuji.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

T K said:


> Why is Fuji getting a pat on the back? Only because of this thread and the fear of looking like total jerks did they finally do the right thing.
> Thanks, I would now never buy a Fuji.




Would this be the same if it happened to a Trek? Specialized? Cannondale? Moots? 


The list goes on. One bad instance that has been posted on the web as opposed to thousands of bikes without issue, and everyone writes off a company.


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## Wolfman (Jun 15, 2005)

Good for the OP that things are looking better, but from my point of view out here on the interwebs, I'm still wary.

Seriously (even though the Fuji broke and you're getting a Kestrel), if I were Fuji, I'd be much more concerned about you riding the repaired Fuji and I'd want the frame back ASAP. If I were going to send you a frame, I'd send you a brand new one and ask for the old one back to put it to rest.

The one thing I would do to take this full circle is to get on the phone with the guys repairing the Fuji and see if they can *gently* remove the cracked area, pack it in freakin' cotton balls for you, and ship it back so you can see for yourself what was up with the frame.


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## ssing20 (Aug 1, 2007)

frdfandc said:


> Good to hear that Fuji stepped up. I have 3 Fuji's and a Kestrel. 1 Fuji is a Team Rival frameset (same frame as a Team RC) and the Kestrel is a Airfoil Pro SE frameset. Both these frames need repair, so they will both be visiting either Calfee or RRVelo.


Off topic, but just curious....What happened to your Team Rival frame? I have the same frame. Thx


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

ssing20 said:


> Off topic, but just curious....What happened to your Team Rival frame? I have the same frame. Thx



Mine is a used bike, but the relief on the top of the seat tube developed a small crack. Nothing big, just need to get it fixed.


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## wedge962005 (Jan 4, 2010)

Here is my update. Pretty good news. Management at Performance convinced management at Fuji that they needed to look at my frame directly prior to such aggressive action as denying my warranty claim. The frame was shipped to Fuji as a result. They got back to me on Thursday and agreed that the damage was not from "impact" and agreed that it would be handled under warranty.

The problem at that point was that they didn't have any comparable frames to send. The bike I had used their C-7 carbon so only their top-of-the-line stuff is eligible for the replacement and they knew I wouldn't be interested in a weaker frame. They suggested I wait until Fall for a 2011 frame, which I may still end up doing, but I thought of Raymond7204 and made a suggestion to Performance. I mentioned I was interested in Time Trial and had been thinking about a bike in that category. They emailed Fuji who replied quickly and we are looking at getting me a new D6 frameset that I can build up.

Overall I'm still very disappointed that Fuji's front line people were so willing to basically call me a liar but I'm happy that Performance's management was able to use their power to get someone higher up at Fuji to review the situation and do the thing that many companies find most difficult to do, reverse their course and admit they were wrong. It seems like they are now looking for a way to make this right and I'm sure it will get resolved.


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

atpjunkie said:


> like we're seeing alot more broken bikes these days


Seem that way to me, as well. Hopefully it's because there are more bikes on the road and the ratio of problems is staying constant.


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## suasponte2/75 (Sep 19, 2009)

I'm the friend that RCJunkie3000 steered away from the Fuji SL-1 after reading this thread. I own a 2004 Fuji Team and have never had any issues with it so I have always unfailingly recommended to beginner riders to take a hard long look at Fujis based upon value and don't buy into the boutique name hype. I've been such a die hard fan that I've had 4 friends that I've steered into buying Fujis over the last few years. Now I'm a little more leary of this recommendation due to the hoops that the OP had to jump through to get this right. 

I'm glad that it all worked out for the OP but am still wary that it took some customer service and upper management intervention to make this right. Does this mean that every time the front line guys get a call, it's an automatic NO until they start losing sales or someone above them has to get involved? What a hassle... 

Based on all this, I bought a Wilier Cento Uno and couldn't be happier. I dropped 2-3 times the amount of money I would have on the SL-1 but feel comforted in knowledge that most Wilier owners (that I've researched on this board, spoke to on group rides and on the internet) have been extremely satisfied with the exemplary customer service and their commitment to stand behind their products. 

The soft spot I had with Fuji has definitely been waned due to this thread as well as others about their warranty issues. You've been put on notice Fuji until I hear other threads/reviews stating otherwise :nonod:


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## skizzle86 (Apr 15, 2010)

suasponte2/75 said:


> I'm the friend that RCJunkie3000 steered away from the Fuji SL-1 after reading this thread. I own a 2004 Fuji Team and have never had any issues with it so I have always unfailingly recommended to beginner riders to take a hard long look at Fujis based upon value and don't buy into the boutique name hype. I've been such a die hard fan that I've had 4 friends that I've steered into buying Fujis over the last few years. Now I'm a little more leary of this recommendation due to the hoops that the OP had to jump through to get this right.
> 
> I'm glad that it all worked out for the OP but am still wary that it took some customer service and upper management intervention to make this right. Does this mean that every time the front line guys get a call, it's an automatic NO until they start losing sales or someone above them has to get involved? What a hassle...
> 
> ...


My experience has been exactly as you described. Been a diehard Fuji bike rider and this thread has turned me away from buying another. Yes, it sucks I'll have to pay more for a frame but I'll have peace of mind knowing that the company will take care of me. I hope Fuji is reading, you don't deserve a pat on the back, the fact it took this much effort to get you to concede to doing right is a testament to what kind of company you really are. Thanks for saving me from buying another bike from you.


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## suasponte2/75 (Sep 19, 2009)

double post... damn..wtf


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## suasponte2/75 (Sep 19, 2009)

skizzle86 said:


> My experience has been exactly as you described. Been a diehard Fuji bike rider and this thread has turned me away from buying another. Yes, it sucks I'll have to pay more for a frame but I'll have peace of mind knowing that the company will take care of me. I hope Fuji is reading, you don't deserve a pat on the back, the fact it took this much effort to get you to concede to doing right is a testament to what kind of company you really are. Thanks for saving me from buying another bike from you.


Agreed. It'll be a while before I need another bike (I got six...) but Fuji will be off my short list until I hear otherwise..


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## suasponte2/75 (Sep 19, 2009)

and while we're all waiting... here's some bike porn to hold us over . What I passed on the SL-1 for:



















Me on my old steed just this past weekend on the Napa Century. I still love this bike, just not so enamored with the company:


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

Nice looking ride...congrats.


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## Mdeth1313 (Nov 1, 2001)

why are so many fuji frames in need of repair? I just went from a 2006 scott cr1 sl that I'd been riding for 4 years to a scott addict sl. Thing is, I got my addict sl frameset for less than fuji's crash replacement price on whatever model was talked about here.

And, w/ scott, if you crash, they have a really good replacement program.

I've always thought of the fujis as "second tier" and if you time it right, you can pick up better frames at better prices.


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## I'm not that guy (Aug 15, 2010)

I own a Fuji SL-1 frame that I built custom with old DA and will recommend it to everyone I know. Great frame, and I have never had any issues that required me to contact either my dealer or the company. For every hater, there's a fanboy.


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## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

frdfandc said:


> Would this be the same if it happened to a Trek? Specialized? Cannondale? Moots?
> 
> 
> The list goes on. One bad instance that has been posted on the web as opposed to thousands of bikes without issue, and everyone writes off a company.


Most likely those companies would have taken care of him correctly to begin with then this would not have even been an issue.
Most companies bend over backwords to keep their customers happy.


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## raymond7204 (Sep 22, 2008)

*The End*

Thanks to everyone who was following this thread. Fortunately, I can say it's all come to an end.

I received my SL1 frame from R R Velo today and the quality of the work appears to be very good. Communication with Edgar from R R Velo was very intermittent and I started to worry a bit. After countless emails and voicemails, Edgar got back to me and explained that he had been in an accident that had kept him off the phone and email for a while. Luckily, he's okay but I had started to think the worst about my frame.

Also, my frame was shipped out two weeks ago but was returned to them for some unknown reason. With that delay, it took about a month to get my frame back. Not too bad, but if it wasn't for the shipping mishap, I would have had it in two weeks.

It's difficult to see the repair. There is a slight inconsistency in the fiber weave finish but it's not really noticeable. 

I've attached before and after pictures of the seat stay. 

Edgar also found another tiny crack in the wishbone that he repaired as well. The complete repair cost me $325 plus shipping.

I also received my Kestrel Airfoil Pro SL frameset from Fuji last weekend. Pictured is the frame but I also got the fork, headset, seatpost and saddle. Sorry for not removing the foam for the picture. This will be sitting in the basement until I get the group to build it up. It'll be a winter project for next season.

In the end, this was a painful experience, but Fuji management did come through for me. Despite the experience with the warranty department, I'm a loyal Fuji customer and I plan to ride these bikes for quite a while. The SL1 is a great bike and I couldn't touch anything as good for the price I paid.

Ray


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

Thats Kestrel's a sweet frame, ain't it? I built one up for a customer a few months back.


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## raymond7204 (Sep 22, 2008)

frdfandc said:


> Thats Kestrel's a sweet frame, ain't it? I built one up for a customer a few months back.


It looks nice. It's a bit heavier than the SL1 but I expect that I'll be faster on it due to the aero position.

It' a 50cm which means that I takes 650c wheels. I had toyed with the idea or selling it and buying a tri frame that takes 700c wheels, but I'm going to give the Airfoil a shot.

Ray


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## wedge962005 (Jan 4, 2010)

Here is what I intend to be my final update on this thread. I did receive my Fuji D-6 Pro frame. Fuji came through in the end after some serious pressure from upper management at Performance Bike. I have not built it up yet and I tried to upload photos but the board says they are too large. Overall I'm pleased, there is one outstanding issue Performance is working on though. The frame is very proprietary including the seatmast cap which is paint keyed to the bike. They did not include that and should have. It is part of the package whenever they ship out a purchased frameset as well. I think Performance will make this right though.

From my experience I will not be buying another Fuji. The first reason is that I don't think they can stand up to the power I'm throwing into the frame, thus the crack under an effort my Madone doesn't even flex for. Secondly, I know they would not have come through without the pressure from Performance which would not have existed if I had not refused the offer.

I hope Fuji can turn this kind of thing around and we can see some posts about smooth easy warranty situations. I like the look of their bikes and would love to recommend them to my smaller friends and even have one for my wife in the future.


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## appleSSeed (Nov 17, 2005)

if you don't want to make the drive, why not ship the frame to them?


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## AZPOWERHOUSE (Dec 16, 2008)

Well add me to the list. Small crack in drivetrain seatstay of a 2009 SL-1 with less than 1000 miles on it. Kind off bumming because I was was really getting into this bike and was determined to ride more often. 

I talked to the performance I got it at and he is going to call it in to Fuji in the morning (Monday). He determined it was not from impact. It was kind of a joke when he asked if it had been in a crash, there is not a scratch on the bike. He said he one in the back with a crack in the same spot, and he was aware of the problem, he said that they stopped using the C10 carbon because of this.

Well I have been looking at cannondales, BH, and Felt lately. I really like the idea of the Di2 Dura-ace. I am riding every other day for at least two hours. I like road races and long rides, I am thinking of doing a few bike trips, Crits are not my thing. 

The store manager said they no longer make the SL1 with C10 fiber, but instead the 2010 would be C7. Is this a big weight difference?

So here is the dilemma, So do I:

1) See if they will repair it. ( I do like the bike the way it is set up now with my components and the color scheme.) BUT, what if it starts cracking somewhere else?

2) Just take the 2010 SL1

3) Try to hold out for a 2011 (with C11? fiber)

4) Try for the SST (the fiber I think is 4 or 7) I have never ridden one.

5) Part everything out,stay away from Fuji, and pick up a different bike?

6) any other ideas?


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

AZPOWERHOUSE/ said:


> I talked to the performance I got it at and he is going to call it in to Fuji in the morning (Monday). He determined it was not from impact. It was kind of a joke when he asked if it had been in a crash, there is not a scratch on the bike. He said he one in the back with a crack in the same spot, and he was aware of the problem, he said that they stopped using the C10 carbon because of this.
> 
> 
> The store manager said they no longer make the SL1 with C10 fiber, but instead the 2010 would be C7. Is this a big weight difference?
> ...




They still make a C10 SL1. Its the SL1 RC. But for 2011 the SL1 series is supposed to be discontinued as they are doing a new bike called the Altimira.

http://www.fujibicycle.com/Road/Ultralight/SL-1-RC---Shimano.aspx

Fuji will not repair it. They will send a replacement frame.


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## AZPOWERHOUSE (Dec 16, 2008)

I just saw the altamira on their website, Should I try to get this frame if I cant get the 2010 SL1 frame that is comparable?

is the altamira their replacement for the SL1?, it seems to be much lighter on the website.

Thanks


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## AZPOWERHOUSE (Dec 16, 2008)

Ok, yeah that is pretty much the same frame. The manager at performance made it sound like they might not have any more, I will just have to stand my ground. 

Thanks for your help.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

AZPOWERHOUSE said:


> Ok, yeah that is pretty much the same frame. The manager at performance made it sound like they might not have any more, I will just have to stand my ground.
> 
> Thanks for your help.


Fuji probably doesn't have complete bikes, but they try to keep warranty replacement frames available for when situations such as this arrise.


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## AZPOWERHOUSE (Dec 16, 2008)

Cool, well hopefully that solves the problem. Thanks


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## AZPOWERHOUSE (Dec 16, 2008)

Wanted to follow up with my situation....

I received the same exact textbook run around from fuji regarding my frame as others in this thread received.

Here is pretty much how it went:
-week 1) fuji wanted pics.
-week 2) fuji want more pics.
-week 3) fuji wants frame sent to them, but then a day later....fuji denies warranty because they said it was from impact. fuji tries to get me to pay 700 for an sst crash replacement.
-week 4) Performance gives me a few good options. One being the exact frame as mine in the back on a brand new lay-away bike (this bike came in at the same time as mine over a year ago). 

-Conclusion) After being played like a fool from fuji (my bike never had any impact of any kind and had no scratches on any part of the bike, it looked like new), I declined the offers and will never ride a fuji bike or any of their sister brands. I was done fighting the same fight as others in this thread, and I have no trust in fuji or their frames. 

I do want to thank performance for giving my money back. 


The funny thing is in the email from fuji posted in this thread:

_Fuji takes every warranty claim requesting our consideration very seriously. I don't know if you examined the pictures (one that he posted on our official Fuji facebook page is attached), but if you take a look at the crack you can see that it does not follow the cross-hatch grain of the carbon. It is true that carbon can crack, but those cracks are results of stress on a weaker bond between the fibers. Those weak bonds, which are manufacturer's defects, result in hairline cracks that stretch and grow along the grain of the carbon until it is visible or the stretching causes very loud creeking. Raymond's frame cracked in a way that we have seen on many crash instances- crossing over the grain of the carbon instead of following along it._

This pretty much spells out what my frame looked like. My crack was _perpendicular _to raymonds crack but on the other seatstay. 

I did enjoy the bike, but I am over it and the whole situation. I can't wait to get another bike (Different brand) when the 2011s roll out.


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## Elfstone (Jun 27, 2006)

sa7nt said:


> Mr. Gaspari apparently doesn't understand how customer service works. Had they simply replaced the frame, they likely would have made Ray a loyal Fuji customer and found a few others out there via word of mouth. Instead, they made a snap judgement which thanks to the internet will likely turn off many many potential buyers.
> 
> Mr. Gaspari, if you're reading this (and I hope you are), please note that I currently own a Fuji SST 1.0. It is an awesome frame and I love everything about it. When it comes time to look for another bike, it likely won't be a Fuji as your company does not appear to stand behind their products. The fact that you are quick to call the purchaser of your products a liar regarding the circumstances surrounding the damage says much about your level of professionalism and class. Good luck with your company's future when this is your level of customer service.


Ditto, I too will not purchase a Fuji in the future after reading this thread. I'm going with steel this time around and would have considered a fuji for a corbon bike, but no thank you.

Peace


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## raymond7204 (Sep 22, 2008)

It's been a while since my issues came about but let me resurrect this thread with the latest news.

I received the Airfoil frame in Sept. I haven't had the time or resources to build it up so it's been sitting in the basement collecting dust. I finally made it to Trisports in Tucson and spoke to them about building the bike and getting me properly fitted. Sadly, the fitter told me that the frame was too small for me and wouldn't get me in the optimal position. That's pretty disappointing, especially considering everything that happened to get the new frame.

I emailed Rob at Fuji/ASI and mentioned to him that the frame was too small and he IMMEDIATELY offered to swap the frame for a better size.

Once again, I feel as if I'm getting awesome customer service from Fuji/ASI. 

Thanks Fuji!

Ray


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## skygodmatt (May 24, 2005)

Know why you're getting a Kestrel Airfoil?...I do. 

You haven't ridden one yet huh? 
The airfoil lacks a seat tube. So, the seat stays have to take up the load. Which means they are made super stout. That means they don't move at all. Which means you're going to feel every pebble in the road....as if you're riding a jackhammer. That frame feels like it's made from concrete. It won't see much saddle time. 

Dude, they can't give those things away fast enough. 
Get a new SL1 like you had in the first place. These companies are trying to cut their losses by giving customers not what they want, but what they have lying around they can't sell. 
I am glad Walmart bike store gave you're money back under their "satisfaction guaranteed" slogan.
Next time, go to reputable pro shop and just hand them the broken frame. They'll treat you like family. No hoops. No shenanigans.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

skygodmatt said:


> Know why you're getting a Kestrel Airfoil?...I do.
> 
> You haven't ridden one yet huh?
> The airfoil lacks a seat tube. So, the seat stays have to take up the load. Which means they are made super stout. That means they don't move at all. Which means you're going to feel every pebble in the road....as if you're riding a jackhammer. That frame feels like it's made from concrete. It won't see much saddle time.
> ...


How's that for snobbery? You can't really get any more pretentious than calling Performance "Walmart bike store." Believe what you will but they have a stellar policy and they stand by their products. I ride a Felt F1, a Felt FA and Specialized Allez . In other words, I have nothing to gain by defending Performance since I also bought my bikes from smaller shops. However, I have actually had better customer service from them than any pro shop I've been to- except for when I was paying $7,000 for my F1. I doubt a little pro shop can pressure a manufacturer to take action like Performance did for this guy. Call it what you want but Performance has the pull to get the job done. Some of their stuff is crap and most of their stuff is good, but Performance will stand behind it because it was sold by them. Not every cyclists can or wants to spend large amounts of moeny on a bike. They deserve to be treated with the same respect as the rest of us since they are the customer regardless of what they are riding. Performance (and a few smaller shops- not pro shops) are the answer.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

skygodmatt said:


> Know why you're getting a Kestrel Airfoil?...I do.
> 
> You haven't ridden one yet huh?
> The airfoil lacks a seat tube. So, the seat stays have to take up the load. Which means they are made super stout. That means they don't move at all. Which means you're going to feel every pebble in the road....as if you're riding a jackhammer. That frame feels like it's made from concrete. It won't see much saddle time.
> ...


Hasn't Kestrel been making bikes without seat tubes for nearly 20 years? You should write them and let them know about the problem.


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## skygodmatt (May 24, 2005)

Just saying it took the OP a few months just to get a cracked frame replaced and he went through a ton of hassle --as he admits. 

A good pro shop would never allow this to happen. I've cracked 3 carbon frames now. 
I've had them all replaced between 3 days to 2 weeks. 
That's why you don't see me posting bad service issues. 

I expect better service for my dollar than what the OP got. 
I spend thousands a year on bike stuff with my shop. I've got better things to do with my time than deal with failed products. 
If that makes me a snob then so be it.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

skygodmatt said:


> Just saying it took the OP a few months just to get a cracked frame replaced and he went through a ton of hassle --as he admits.
> 
> A good pro shop would never allow this to happen. I've cracked 3 carbon frames now.
> I've had them all replaced between 3 days to 2 weeks.
> ...


So, if YOU had bought this Fuji, your shop would have been able to convince Fuji it was a warranty issue and replace it in less than 2 weeks? Or have you never had a warranty with Fuji and don't have any idea how well your shop would do against a company like that?

You seem to be putting the problem in front of the wrong set of feet, and using your small experience dictate who actually makes a warranty replacement happen.


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## jkuo (Mar 30, 2008)

I thought the airfoil was supposed to be more complaint due to the lack of a seat tube. At least that's what people that own them say. I'm still not sure how removing a seat tube makes a frame ride worse. The vertical deflection in most seat and chainstays is so miniscule that it has very little effect on ride quality anyways. Just drop 5psi in the tires and you're set. And as someone else mentioned, Kestrel has made bikes without seat tubes for decades now, it can't be that bad.



skygodmatt said:


> Know why you're getting a Kestrel Airfoil?...I do.
> 
> You haven't ridden one yet huh?
> The airfoil lacks a seat tube. So, the seat stays have to take up the load. Which means they are made super stout. That means they don't move at all. Which means you're going to feel every pebble in the road....as if you're riding a jackhammer. That frame feels like it's made from concrete. It won't see much saddle time.
> ...


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## skygodmatt (May 24, 2005)

Kestrel makes other frames I like very much. 
Everyone has their opinion. 

The main thing is customer service is lacking in my opinion. If you search the forums you'll see issues from these brands. 

A good pro shop demands better manufacturer support so these frames wind up at Wally Bikes.
That's why you can't get Trek, Giant, Specialized, Cannondale, Orbea, Look etc. at PerformanceBike. 

No offense. We all are entitled to our own opinions. I myself expect dealer service that is speedy. Heck, my buddy had an issue with a Bikes Direct frame and they were awesome.
The whole philosophy that the customer has to be burdened by bad manufacturing is pure hogwash. Dealers and Manufacturers need to agree more. 

If the OP is happy NOT getting his nice riding Fuji SL replaced by Advanced Sports-- taking a completely different frame and paying to fix his own defective frame--- then that's his deal.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

skygodmatt said:


> Kestrel makes other frames I like very much.
> Everyone has their opinion.
> 
> The main thing is ABG corporation ( Kestrel,Fuji, Merlin, Litespeed... ) customer service is lacking in my opinion. If you search the forums you'll see issues from these brands. They used to be very good in the day until ABG bought them.
> ...


ABG does not own Fuji and Kestrel. That's Advanced Sports you're not thinking of.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

skygodmatt said:


> The main thing is ABG corporation ( Kestrel,Fuji, Merlin, Litespeed... ) customer service is lacking in my opinion. If you search the forums you'll see issues from these brands. They used to be very good in the day until ABG bought them.




Make sure your information is correct before posting. I do work for Performance, but however you feel about them is your obligation. You won't get any argument from me.

Kestrel/Fuji/Breezer,SE Racing is owned by Advanced Sports Inc. Which is a subsidiary of Ideal Bike Manufacturing.

They have zero connection with ABG.

Performance has sold Specialized in the past. I've seen the bikes UPC#'s. They have also sold Giant, Kona, Jamis and a couple of other brands that is slipping my mind.

Trek/Specialized wants their dealers to sell nothing but their own product. Performance sells approx 10 different bike manufacturers to put more product into the customers hands at great prices.


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## skygodmatt (May 24, 2005)

Ah...my mistake. 

Yes I confused ABG with Advanced Sports. 

I apologize.


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## rcjunkie3000 (Sep 5, 2009)

Performance Bike did carry some big names before. I still have my Specialized FSR XC MTB. "Specialized" is also stamped on an old PB water bottle I have. They also carried Canondale; my old Canondale MTB shoes and saddle bag. I do remember seeing Giant over there also. I still have the receipt, I wonder if I could return my old Specialized MTB; satisfaction guranteed :thumbsup: ....jk


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

skygodmatt said:


> Ah...my mistake.
> 
> Yes I confused ABG with Advanced Sports.
> 
> I apologize.


Speaking of which, have your logged any miles on a Kestrel Airfoil?

And you never said how your "pro shop" would have forced Advanced sports (Fuji) into replacing the frame in less than 2 weeks.


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## skygodmatt (May 24, 2005)

I doubt pro shops would carry brands that take months to replace defective cracked frames and try to weasel out of their warranty. Customers get pretty pissed and won't come back. 

Perhaps that is why PerformanceBike lost Specialized and Cannondale. Two great brands. Where are they now? As a matter of fact, what good brands does Performance carry?


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

skygodmatt said:


> I doubt pro shops would carry brands that take months to replace defective cracked frames and try to weasel out of their warranty. Customers get pretty pissed and won't come back.
> 
> Perhaps that is why PerformanceBike lost Specialized and Cannondale. Two great brands. Where are they now? As a matter of fact, what good brands does Performance carry?


So Fuji's just aren't carried by "pro" shops. But Specialized is a "pro" brand? I'll remember that next time I see a lil' pro ride by on his Specialized with training wheels.

Performance's site lists a bunch of stuff, including GT and Schwinn, two Pacific Cycles brands - also the owners of Cannondale.


So, to the point, no matter how brilliant the store, an LBS can't force a warranty department to do what they don't want to do. Certainly not with the speed you're implying.

You are speaking from the experience of having 3 (3?!!) clear warranty failures and having them handled quickly because of that. This Fuji was not so obvious, and the Fuji people were being obnoxious. Yet Fuji is a well respected brand found in many higher end stores.

Certainly, a good shop which has this sort of trouble very often is going to dump the brand. They are also going to do their best for the customer. I note that in this case Performance intervened and helped settle the matter, so I don't know what your beef with them is. "Pro" bike store owners are not magical elves that can put the stink-eye on any brand that isn't behaving.

The guilty party here is Fuji, which comes as a surprise to many of us who have been in and around the industry for awhile. I don't know why any of this requires you to take a dump on Kestrel or Performance.


BTW, I have been in crappy shops with great brands, and awesome shops with boring offerings. There is no connection. The local Waterford/Gunnar dealer is an ass and his store is an abortion.


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## skygodmatt (May 24, 2005)

I think we agree on a lot of this. 

I've had 3 frame warranty issues and 1 crash replacement in the last 3 years. 
As a result, I've got nothing but great things to say about Specialized and Cervelo service and thanks to the shop too. 

I said I didn't like the ride of the Kestrel Airfoil. It's harsh. Then again so was my Scott CR1, Cervelo SlC-SL and S2 too. Hated the ride on those too. Someone else may love them. To each his own. 

As riders we agree that some frame manufacturers need to step it up to make it less of a burden for buyers or we wouldn't see these "help I got screwed" posts.


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## rx-79g (Sep 14, 2010)

skygodmatt said:


> I think we agree on a lot of this.
> 
> I've had 3 frame warranty issues and 1 crash replacement in the last 3 years.
> As a result, I've got nothing but great things to say about Specialized and Cervelo service and thanks to the shop too.
> ...


True. 

And here's where we don't agree:

Kestrels vertical stiffness is not a function of it lacking a seat tube, as you illustrate with the CR1 and S2 examples.

Bike shops are not able to control corporations that make and wholesale bicycles.

The brand of bicycle sold does not make a bike shop "pro". Personally, I avoid the heavily Specialized or Trek stores - they are one hit wonders.


I think this situation is upsetting, especially to the OP. I do not understand how your baseless attacks on certain models, brands and stores had anything to do with this problem, They merely seemed uninformed and full of invective. That doesn't serve you well.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

frdfandc said:


> Make sure your information is correct before posting. I do work for Performance, but however you feel about them is your obligation. You won't get any argument from me.
> 
> Kestrel/Fuji/Breezer,SE Racing is owned by Advanced Sports Inc. Which is a subsidiary of Ideal Bike Manufacturing.
> 
> ...


This is so true that my LBS is dropping Specialized for 2011.


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