# clinchers vs. tubulars



## edwin headwind (Aug 23, 2004)

Got some tax money burnin' a hole in my pocket & was thinkin' 'bout buying some tubular wheels & tires for racin'. But I'm wondering if it's worth it. Clinchers have come a long way in the last 15 years in terms of weight & road feel.
Do you have a dedicated set of sew up's for racing? Is it worth the expense?


----------



## edwin headwind (Aug 23, 2004)

oops! wrong forum.


----------



## slowdave (Nov 29, 2005)

wrong forum, but yes the ride it worth the very small hassle.


----------



## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

The ride is no longer any better than good clinchers, particularly if you use wider clincher rims. Regardless of cost, the hassles are no longer worth it.

I have a Jet Stinger 9 (front) collecting dust if you're interested -- I won't be bothered with tubulars again.


----------



## hecbom (Jul 5, 2005)

I started racing in the early 70's and just about every Bike out there from Europe had tubular tires. High end sewups were the Clements Seda Extras to the cheaper Wolbergs or Hutchinson. In those days we had no choice but to buy the best you could afford if you raced. In my opinion a good "open tubular" clincher like a Veloflex 22mm Corsa 180g a Conti 4000s 215g or a Schwalbe Ultremo ZLX Clincher Tire at 160g are just as good as a Tubular. The minute you puncture one out in the middle of nowhere the excitement of riding tubulars vaporizes in a flash not to mention the average cost of a light weight tubular around $90-$120. My 1970 Coppi Campionissimo has Tubulars on it and I have a set of Ambrosio 350g tubular rims laced to Campi record hubs I use once in a while on my Bianchi EV/4.But to be honest a good "open" tubular clincher is just as good as a tubular. Borrow a wheelset from someone and see if you can tell the difference and then make your choice.


----------



## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

Getting a dedicated set of wheels just for racing is ALWAYS a good idea. Whether it is tubular or clincher, just having a set of wheels that always have relatively new tires on them when you go to race is nice.

As far as which to pick. Tubulars are a great way to go. Yes, you have to glue them up, but let's say you do 20 races a year on them, and maybe flat 1 or 2 times. Not a big deal. Also carbon tubulars tend to brake better than carbon clinchers and they are a little lighter.

One other benefit to tubulars. If you do get a flat in a race, you can control you bike much better on a flat tubular. This is especially important if you get a front flat and are going down a hill or through a turn. Clinchers can be disastrous in this situation.

As far as ride feel goes. I rarely notice much difference once things heat up in a race. You get used to things pretty quickly on a bike, so tire feel probably doesn't matter much.


----------



## samh (May 5, 2004)

I feel tubulars corner better, is that my imagination? it feels like with clinchers there is a large dropoff in grip, not linear.


----------



## samh (May 5, 2004)

also several recommended tape. Does this have no disadvantages?


----------



## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

With the wider rims, clinchers corner very well. There are a number of pro teams now that use clinchers and do okay. So I don't think cornering or bike handling issues matter much anymore between the two technologies.


----------



## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

What about everyday use. With the advancement of clincher rims and tires, is it worth running tubulars everyday? Positives and negatives?


----------



## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

Everyday use? No way. Clinchers are much better for training.


----------



## eekase (Nov 10, 2009)

samh said:


> also several recommended tape. Does this have no disadvantages?


In my experience, I have not had a problem with adhering tubulars with tufo tape.....BUT, I am starting to second guess the tape. For one, I use the tape on my HED stingers, which have a 28mm wide rim. The tape is 19mm wide. I noticed on my stingers, I don't have edge to edge adhesion.
I am in the process of gluing up two sets of 303's...yes, note the emphasis of the word 'gluing'. Until tufo makes a wider tape, I am going the gluing route.

I race on my tubulars, and train/group ride/charity ride on tubulars as well. I know it's not the norm, but I just like the way they feel, and haven't had a tubular flat in almost 2 years.


----------



## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Good tubies just have a feel that no clincher can match. 

I mean, I train and do weeknight races on 25 Conti clinchers, they ride great... but the real races are for carbon tubies and they just give a bit of added confidence at the limits of traction. 

Don't blow your wad on the wheels and the cheap out on the tires... if you have a budget, go the other way - splurge on tires, save a bit on rims / wheels.


----------



## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

I just switched back to tubulars for training - as someone else said, blowouts on clinchers at speed are much harder to control and I had a bad crash a while back because of that. My training area involves a lot of fast descents, and I don't have 100% confidence in clinchers. With sealants and stuff like VIttoria pit stop, training on tubulars isn't the hassle it used to be.


----------



## Matador-IV (Aug 2, 2010)

I train on wider 1600g clinchers.
I race on 1000g or 1250g tubulars.

I like the "feel" of tubulars.


----------



## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

If going aero/carbon, strongly consider tubulars. Clinchers give away the weight savings of the carbon so tubular/aero are an ideal combination. Another upside for tubulars for racing is they are harder to flat and if you do flat, they are safer to ride at speed until you can stop for a wheel change. There are studies out there that demonstrate that clinchers are actually faster but you certainly don't see the pros reacting to that, virtually all still race tubulars. Specialized recently released a study/graphic that shows their tubulars to be about 5 watts faster than their clinchers.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

I always find it odd that folks say 'good clinchers are just as good' yet the pro peloton still uses tubulars despite all the hassle and PITA it makes for the wrenches. If clinchers were just as good pro mechanics wouldn't waste so much time gluing up tires.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> I always find it odd that folks say 'good clinchers are just as good' yet the pro peloton still uses tubulars despite all the hassle and PITA it makes for the wrenches. If clinchers were just as good pro mechanics wouldn't waste so much time gluing up tires.


as already mentioned, carbon wheels are substantially lighter for tubulars than clinchers. now I wonder how many claiming they can feel the difference have actually performed a blind test.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*whatever reason*



den bakker said:


> as already mentioned, carbon wheels are substantially lighter for tubulars than clinchers. now I wonder how many claiming they can feel the difference have actually performed a blind test.


it still kills the argument "clinchers are as good"
There is no industry push to sell tubulars
They are far more time consuming
They cost more

yet for whatever reason (yours being weight) they are still ubiquitous amongst the pro peloton. That tells us something. I don't use tubs on my road bikes @ present, I do use them on cross and on the track. Yes, they feel different, I can ride them at higher psi than clinchers on the track and lower psi than clinchers in cx. I have a set of road tubs but all my tub hoops are dedicated to offroad @ present.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> it still kills the argument "clinchers are as good"
> There is no industry push to sell tubulars
> They are far more time consuming
> They cost more
> ...


yes 300gram per set or so. That is not due to the tyre.


----------



## earlfoss (Aug 1, 2010)

I use tubulars for training. My go-to is the Tufo S33 PRO tire. Those things last forever and though the ride isn't that of the top end tubies, it's still something that I prefer over clinchers.


----------



## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

If you can drop the cash for a pair of "race only" wheels...I'd do it. It keep the tires from getting all cut up when riding on the streets.

With that said...I have a pair of carbon clinchers and carbon tubulars...my clinchers are sitting in my closet.


----------



## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

atpjunkie said:


> I always find it odd that folks say 'good clinchers are just as good' yet the pro peloton still uses tubulars despite all the hassle and PITA it makes for the wrenches. If clinchers were just as good pro mechanics wouldn't waste so much time gluing up tires.


It's because of weight, pinch flat resistance and ride-ability after a flat (continuing safely while the team car comes forward). Those things are a huge deal in pro racing, not so much for the rest of us. We don't have mech's and team cars. When the air is in them, clinchers are very nearly as good (according to some tests, even appreciably faster), when you're on the side of the road with a flat, clinchers are better.


----------



## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

I covered 10,000 miles last year on two different sets of carbon tubular wheels. I glue mine on, and I don't get the fuss over how much trouble they are. It doesnt take me any longer to change a flat than with a clincher. On one set I run Vittoria Evo CX tires I can usually find for less than 70 a tire. That's a high end race tire for little more cash than a comparable clincher and tube.


----------



## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

Fireform said:


> I covered 10,000 miles last year on two different sets of carbon tubular wheels. I glue mine on, and I don't get the fuss over how much trouble they are. It doesnt take me any longer to change a flat than with a clincher. On one set I run Vittoria Evo CX tires I can usually find for less than 70 a tire. That's a high end race tire for little more cash than a comparable clincher and tube.


 Same here on almost all the counts. I do have 3 sets of carbon rims, all tubular. and a disc...also tubular. One good set of clinchers I hardly ever ride. ~10k maybe 12, 13k per year on tubulars and since I switched over about 6 years ago and began training mainly on tubulars, waaaay fewer flats. I train mostly on continental sprinters, about $50 from PBK...race on them too, if I don't have any Vittorias on the wheels I decide to use. 

A good tube and clincher is about the same price and I get way more flats with them....I've also seen plenty of guys go down really hard blowing a clincher right off on an intersection turn in Crits...."Kaboom!....tinkle crash, smoosh....Damn it!" as they pick up their broken bikes and hoof it back to the race start....

Yeah, it is a little more trouble to mount the tubulars.. I always take a set of back up wheels to races or on road trips, too...so if I do flat, which hardly ever happens...maybe two flats per season, now....I don't have a trip ending problem. It takes a bit more planning, riding on tubulars, but in the end I think they are *less* hassel than fixing flats on Michelins or some other tubular ten times a year or more.

They do ride differently, too....Could I tell in a blind test?...not really unless I had a blowout descending Montezuma Grade or Mt. Palomar or something....I could probably stop (or have a much better chance to try) a flat tubular and live unless I was cornering really hard.

I put a dab of Stans or Slime in my everyday tubulars...dunno if that helps.


----------



## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

I run Stan's in my tubulars and it does work. It's been three months since I punctured my front...still holding air.


----------



## JimP (Dec 18, 2001)

Feel? What pressure do you ride with your clinchers? Why are you pumping your clinchers up to such a high pressure? Oh, to avoid pinch flats! Hmm..... I weigh 185 lbs and have to run clinchers at 120-125 psi to avoid pinch flats but I run my 22mm Contis at 90 psi. Yes, there is definitely a big difference in the feel between a clincher at 125 psi and a tubular at 90 psi.


----------



## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

This is an isolated data point, but I had recently been considering getting tubular wheels and tires. I did 400 miles with some long fast technical descents with 6 guys, two on tubulars, one tubeless, and the other three on clinchers. The tubular guys had sealant in the tires, carried compressed air cans with sealant in their jersey pockets along with CO2, carried spare tires folded up, and brought multiple sets of spare wheels with tires mounted. They had all the tire drama with 4+ flats, sealant wouldn't seal, etc. Tubeless guy ran sealant and got a flat anyway, couldn't get the tire to seat properly with a tube, so put on a regular tubed tired. The three clincher guys rode without incident packing only a spare tube and a mini-pump for each bike. 

Over the years I've come close to getting tubulars on a number of occasions, but something always convinced me not to. This time, this is isolated experience, which might included incidences of operator error, etc... pretty much convinced me to stick with clinchers again this time.


----------



## steve_e_f (Sep 8, 2003)

Its almost a pointless thing to argue. Its all opinion and hyperbole. I run clinchers and tubulars. I train on clinchers and race tubulars. Why? Because I have 'em. I got one set of 303 tubulars for $500 through a connection so I jumped at that. Anyone would be an idiot to pass that up. But at full price the idiocy of buying those same wheels is definitely worth arguing. The second set of tubulars I got were free/barter, so of course I took 'em. I use the 303s for road races where I wanna feel awesome and have every possible advantage. I use the cheapo set for crits and CX where it won't be a tragedy if they fail.

For everything else I run Mavic, Simano, and Williams clinchers, and I'm perfectly happy doing so. I can't really tell much, if any, difference in feel. The weight between the 1150 gram tubulars and the 1750 gram Williams clinchers is real though.

I think gluing them up is theraputic an an old world cycling sort of way. The same way people appreciate an old lugged frame is the way I appreciate the extra attention required to glue up a tubular.

I'm running Stans in my tubulars this year, but the two flats I've had on tubulars were nasty slices not glass or thorns, and Stan's wouldn't have helped with the slices.

The only time where tubulars are bar-none better than clinchers is in CX. I've used clinchers, tubular clinchers, tubless, and tubulars, and tubulars totally rule the roost!


----------



## gordy748 (Feb 11, 2007)

A long time ago, in a land far, far away, I was ice climbing one day when a lot of snow came down on my head (around 50 tons) and I fell 300 foot off the side of the mountain. When I eventually got back into cycling, I found that my joints were extremely sensitive to road shock. My aluminium bike couldn't get me more than 30 miles before I had to stop riding, so I switched for a carbon bike which wouldn't last me more than 60.

The past few months I've changed everything in order to get more comfort. I got a ti bike, then I changed my wheels from very well built high-spoke count clinchers (GP4000 23s) to low spoke count tubulars (FMB Competition 25s for my event wheels, FMB Paris-Roubaix 25s for my training wheels.

Hand on heart, I'm not going back to clinchers for my training and racing miles. The tubbies smooth out the road and give a tactile feel in a way the GP4000s never did. I honestly don't think I go any faster these days, but I can keep the same speed for much longer and when I'm tired it's fitness and not structural fatigue.

I think that's partly why the pros use them.


----------



## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

JimP said:


> Feel? What pressure do you ride with your clinchers? Why are you pumping your clinchers up to such a high pressure? Oh, to avoid pinch flats! Hmm..... I weigh 185 lbs and have to run clinchers at 120-125 psi to avoid pinch flats but I run my 22mm Contis at 90 psi. Yes, there is definitely a big difference in the feel between a clincher at 125 psi and a tubular at 90 psi.


if you need 125psi to avoid pinch flats, you absolutely need bigger tires. if you're using 23mm tires, everything would be better w/ 25mm tires at lower pressure, with the lone exception of weight being very slightly higher. they'd roll better, have better traction and be more comfortable. win, win, win.


----------



## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

I use sewups for racing and clinchers for training. When training, there are "things" in the road, like cars, sand, and gravel. For this reason, I do not need the cornering power that I get with sewups.

Putting "junk" into your tire defeats the purpose of a light sewup. A sewup with a pin hole, that is properly patched, can be raced on.


----------



## QQUIKM3 (Apr 20, 2008)

*I totally agree. . .*



JohnStonebarger said:


> I have a Jet Stinger 9 (front) collecting dust if you're interested -- I won't be bothered with tubulars again.


Went to clinchers many years ago. Now I run either Vittoria open Corsa CXs or Torellia Gavia open tubulars with latex tubes. . . It is indistinguisable from a tubular IMO. Never again would I screw with glue.


----------



## drewskey (Jun 3, 2011)

QQUIKM3 said:


> Went to clinchers many years ago. Now I run either Vittoria open Corsa CXs or Torellia Gavia open tubulars with latex tubes. . . It is indistinguisable from a tubular IMO. Never again would I screw with glue.


I as well run the Open Corsa CXs. They use the same casing as the tubular version if I am not mistaken. [link to Vittoria video making their tubular] Add their latex tube and you have yourself a clincher as close to a tubular as possible. I roll with the 25mm version and add stans to mine. ZERO flats over a racing and training season.


----------



## 2128 (Feb 19, 2012)

tubulars is the best!!!


----------



## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

JimP said:


> Feel? What pressure do you ride with your clinchers? Why are you pumping your clinchers up to such a high pressure? Oh, to avoid pinch flats! Hmm..... I weigh 185 lbs and have to run clinchers at 120-125 psi to avoid pinch flats but I run my 22mm Contis at 90 psi. Yes, there is definitely a big difference in the feel between a clincher at 125 psi and a tubular at 90 psi.


You don't have to run clinchers at 120-125 psi to avoid pinch flats at your weight if you take some minimal care on how you ride. I weigh considerably more than you at 240 lbs, I run 23s at 110/110 and 25s at 98/105 without getting pinch flats but I don't ride around aiming at every pothole either. When I do hit the occasional pothole, I try lifting my weight off the bike. The last pinch flat I remember getting was more than 2000 miles ago.


----------



## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

That's fine. But in a bunch it happens that you cannot alter your line because of a pot hole. The DS of Norwegian conti team Joker-Merida said the main reason for them using tubulars is pinch flat resistance.
Given the crr results of top modern clincers I can very much understand Panzerwagen choosing them for hit WC winning ITT. 
There is blow out security in tubulars. I find it quite funny how people brag about how easy such and such clincer is to mount, given that it comes off rather quicky too if you get a blowout. I'd rather swear a bit when mounting my clinchers. Tires in calipers usually means bandages.
On the other hand improperly glued tubulars can roll. That's why I glue mine properly. A properly glued racing tubular's crr is very close to a top clincher's.


----------

