# New bike advice



## ruarmani (Jan 30, 2017)

Hello to everyone, I am pleased to join your community.

It has taken me a while before I decided to post here. I have done so much reading and researching that it made more confused and puzzled. I am not new to riding, have been riding since childhood and feel very confident on any bike. But finally decided to go road biking and looking for a bike. I have come down to three endurance bikes that I am looking at, but still can not decide which way to go. Mainly I will be doing long distances for fitness myself or with friends, night join the club later. Not sure if I will ever ride in wet, unless I happen to be in a wrong place in a wrong time.

I am considering:
Giant Defy 2, 2017 - https://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-ca/bi ... 32/100727/
the guy gives me a deal and sell it for CAD$ 2050
Color either red/black or black/white/blue, red is matt, b/w/b is gloss 
Two others are 2016 and on sale:
Felt Z5 ltd, 2016 - http://www.feltbicycles.com/Canada/2016 ... /Z/z5.aspx
here is the exact color - http://mikesbikes.com/product/felt-bicy ... -15639.htm
the store has it on sale for CAD$ 1600
Focus Cayo 7, 2016 - http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/cate ... -15-49102/
store has it on sale for CAD$ 1700

All bikes have got 105 group sets. Giant has got disc brakes. I have always liked Giants, but I am not sure if I should spend extra $450? I read so much information about disc brakes/rim brakes, I don't even know what to think. One thing though, I might want to put 28 tires. They will fit Giant no problem, even 30 from what I read. Felt and Focus have got 25c and there is not much of a clearance for 28.

I tried to do some riding, but it is really cold here in Canada. All feel fine as I never ridden proper road bikes, only cross road ones.

Please let me know what you think. I would highly appreciate your advises.


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## jamesh75 (Apr 12, 2011)

Welcome to the group! I have a Giant Defy so I may be biased, but the Defy is a great bike for what you want to do. However Felt and Focus also make good bikes as well. There is a huge debate right now over disk brakes, but I do similar riding as you, and if I were to buy a new bike today, I'd go disk brakes.


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## ruarmani (Jan 30, 2017)

Thank you. You are right, there is so much information about disc breaks, all kinds, so it made me really confusing. As long as adjustment and maintenance is not a problem I would go with disc brakes. I really want to buy Giant, but would not want to spend extra $500 if it does not make sense.


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

If you want to fit 28mm tires on your bike, your bike, your only choice is disc brakes.
Disc brakes eliminate the brake arch over the tire, freeing up room for larger tires.

If you can live with 25mm tires, rim brakes are fine; they have been, for decades.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Peter P. said:


> If you want to fit 28mm tires on your bike, your bike, your only choice is disc brakes.
> Disc brakes eliminate the brake arch over the tire, freeing up room for larger tires.
> 
> If you can live with 25mm tires, rim brakes are fine; they have been, for decades.


I can easily fit 28mm tires on my rim brake Synapse, also on my rim brake Granfondo.


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

I think you can actually make 28s work with rim brakes in a lot of situations, but plenty of people are still riding just fine on 23s so if your bike comes with 25s you might just want to stick with them and see how it goes.

Don't limit yourself to just the endurance frames based on web research only... plenty of normal or "race geometry" frames are plenty comfortable. 

It may be tough to do in current weather but the more you test ride the more you'll figure out what you want. 

Disc vs rim? A lot of people against disc brakes (like me) have multiple good older wheelsets and multiple frames that we don't want to change because they are working perfectly well... hence the reluctance to switch. Seriously, I expect to get potentially decades more use out of my 2 road frames so no desire to have disc. And if I do get a new bike I want to be able to use my existing wheels.

On the other hand, if you're getting your first road bike ever and the industry is trying to force people in the disc direction for good, it's probably not a bad thing.


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## ruarmani (Jan 30, 2017)

Thank you. The thing is, Giant defy or TCR, don't come with rim brakes anymore. I don't think I really care what kind of brakes as long as they work fine and it does not mean more hassles, maintenance and repairs. Of course, the shop is offering two years of service, but I don't want to deal with problems. On the other hand, I see my friends who ride mountain bikes with disc brakes for years and I don't recall them talking about about any issues. I asked a friend of mine yesterday and he said he does not even pay attention while brakes are working, so far so good. I tried 25 and 28, 28s do feel more comfortable, but I am quite sure I could deal with 25s if I had no choice. In terms of test rides. I wish I could ride defy and tcr for at least 30 mins, but the best I can get is the ride around the block. May I have chosen a wrong time to buy a bike?


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

Any time is the right time if the prices are good 

Almost year round you can find previous year models for much cheaper and often only difference is paint job...


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## ruarmani (Jan 30, 2017)

This year the difference is discs. I have looked at tons of bikes. 90% of 2017s models come with disc brakes, while 2016 had rims. I wish it was just paint job and group set.


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## ExChefinMA (May 9, 2012)

ruarmani said:


> Hello to everyone, I am pleased to join your community.
> 
> It has taken me a while before I decided to post here. I have done so much reading and researching that it made more confused and puzzled. I am not new to riding, have been riding since childhood and feel very confident on any bike. But finally decided to go road biking and looking for a bike. I have come down to three endurance bikes that I am looking at, but still can not decide which way to go. Mainly I will be doing long distances for fitness myself or with friends, night join the club later. Not sure if I will ever ride in wet, unless I happen to be in a wrong place in a wrong time.
> 
> ...


ruarmani, 

Best advice I and realistically anyone else, can give you is buy the bike that screams "RIDE ME!" in your ear. Everything else is really aesthetics and trim, it doesn't matter if you can't fit wider tires if you don't ride it.

Good luck and may the wind always be at your back.

EEC


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

There is no one correct configuration. In fact, the choices are broader than ever.

You're smart to focus on 105-level equipment. You'll get plenty of bang v buck there. 

Disc brakes are definitely not mandatory. They have, however, come of age on road bikes, IMHO. By that I mean that the designs are fairly mature and sufficiently stable that you probably won't buy something that will be obsolete in the next two years. And the weight penalty, while measurable, is not so great that you can't get a bike that performs well - especially for a recreational cyclist.

I did a parking lot spin on the Defy and liked it a lot. It has geometry and spec that will provide satisfaction. If you eventually determine it is insufficient you will find you have become a "weight weenie" or "racer wannabe" or "cafe curmudgeon". At that point you'll be laughing at the $500 price delta as you ogle a $3000 pair of wheels.

I've been riding for 30 years, never with a tire larger than 23c. On Sunday I ordered a Trek Domane that comes with 32c tires and discs. Of course, I'm old and fat and can't ride hard without my back screaming for relief. YMMV.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

I'd recommend whichever bike allows the larger tires. I prefer rim brakes, but that choice is mine and have bicycle with 42mm tires and fenders with center pull rim brakes that gives me everything that I want in a bicycle. My set up gives me almost 2 centimeters between tire and fender, allowing room enough for all but the largest debris to pass through without hanging up. Tires much larger than my 42's will mandate disk brakes though.

But, what ever brake system that you go with, get something that allows the use of larger volume tires, you won't regret it, 'specially if you're going with an "endurance" bike. Larger tires are not going to slow you down and will be more comfortable, allowing you to ride more miles before tiring.


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## ruarmani (Jan 30, 2017)

I have finally decided on Focus Cayo 7, 2016. Guys in the shop went quite far to give me a good deal and to upgrade some components. They were patiently waiting for me to make a decision, said nothing bad about Giant. Classy people. Now the bike is all 105, they tried 28mm contis and they fit well, so I take them. Spent a lot of time on fitting. I felt like I had to buy from them. The only thing they did mention, that this Focus is more of a racing geometry and the body position is more aggressive. I tried and yes, but I felt ok. I could not ride it properly though as we have got snow. So I tried it on a stand. Nevertheless, they said IF you start riding in march/april and you don't like it at all and the ride is rough, bring it back and we will get you something else. I thought it was fair enough. I hope I love this bike.


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## Red90 (Apr 2, 2013)

Don't get too hung up on the race or endurance geometry. More important is how it feels when you ride it. I won't hesitate to take my race geometry bike for a 6hr ride. It's a bit harsher, more engaging and responsive, but not objectionable. I'm sure you'll enjoy the focus. I think you'll probably spend a bit more time getting all the right fitment for yourself once you start riding. The initial fitment is really a general starting point, you will need to a lot of tweaks on the seats, stems, handlebars etc to get it exactly where you need it. It just takes a bit of trial and error. Also you will likely change your saddle. Most cyclist I know have never kept their original saddle as everyone is different and that contact point is the most important one of all.

If you go through all the exercise of getting everything dialed in, and you still don't like the bike, bring it back and see what they can do for you. That kind of service is why I would go buy a new bike from an LBS.


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## ruarmani (Jan 30, 2017)

Thank you guys for all your advises, much appreciated.

Yes, they spent about an hour on fitting stand. We tried Felt and Focus. I really liked them. If it was not for the shop I would have gotten Giant.


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

Dealing with good people at a good shop goes a long way. You will probably love this bike, hope the snow melts soon but definitely don't take it out on icy roads...


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## jamesh75 (Apr 12, 2011)

Glad you picked a bike. Now we just have to hope for warm weather soon so you can get out and ride it. And yes, a good shop can make the difference when buying a bike.


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## ruarmani (Jan 30, 2017)

This forum was my last source and you all helped me to make the right decision. I was really confused. The money I saved I spent on shoes, pedals and tires (I just paid for an upgrade, which is nice). Now shopping for lights. I do wait for warm weather, ha-ha. I hope my knees won't be an issue. Funny, but I feel like a child who's got himself a toy he always wanted.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

ruarmani said:


> Funny, but I feel like a child who's got himself a toy he always wanted.


You're not alone. That's how most of us feel when we get a new bike.


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## ruarmani (Jan 30, 2017)

Ha ha, I believe you.

Told a friend of mine who rides a lot in Australia, he used to be a pro. Tried talking to him earlier to ask for his advise but could not get a hold if him, finally we spoke today and he said: "I would have bought Giant. Focus - not my thing, a little too harsh for endurance bike. But with 28mm can work better. But Giant would be the way to go. Focus is not bad ... Just cancel the order and go with Giant". He reminded me about my knee and back issues, which do occur sometime. I am 45 by the way.

But I think no, I don't want to do this, especially guys most likely have done the upgrades on the bike. So I will stick with Focus.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ruarmani said:


> I am 45 by the way.
> 
> He reminded me about my knee and back issues....


I'm a fair amount older than you, ride a Specialized Tarmac and also have knee and back issues. Cycling actually helps both.

Fit is key to success - and I suggest learning a bit about cadence. Important for everyone, but especially those with knee issues. 

Not to knock your pro rider friend, but not all cyclists are that well versed in fit. Depending on the type of back issue, it's sometimes advantageous to ride in a more aero position, minimizing weight borne on the lower back. Not radical, just 'more aero'.

Bottom line, don't look back. The Focus gets great reviews. As you acclimate to road riding, just stay in tune with what your body is telling you, then have a fitter tweak your position, if/ when needed. 

Good luck, and ride safe!


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## ruarmani (Jan 30, 2017)

Thank you. Totally agree with you. I also thought that aero position would be easier on the back. Even on my cross bike I tend to get into aero position and it feels better.
Also, I tend to see that pros often are too critical. I have already heard from him about cadence and power meter, which he has is a must if you want to train and get fit rather than simply ride for fun. These power meters cost some money I see...


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ruarmani said:


> Thank you. Totally agree with you. I also thought that aero position would be easier on the back. Even on my cross bike I tend to get into aero position and it feels better.
> Also, I tend to see that pros often are too critical. I have already heard from him about cadence and power meter, which he has is a must if you want to train and get fit rather than simply ride for fun. These power meters cost some money I see...


To start, I'd suggest reading up on the topic (that's free if you use the web) and a computer with cadence, You can get a wired version for under $30. It's a good tool for beginners. After awhile, you'll begin to know what cadence feels right, but it'll take awhile. 

There's a ton of technology out there. Being 'old school' (and cheap), I keep things simple and buy based on needs, versus wants.


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## Roland44 (Mar 21, 2013)

ruarmani said:


> Funny, but I feel like a child who's got himself a toy he always wanted.


Enjoy the feeling, unfortunately it doesn't last for long, well not for me anyway.


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## MarcMoon (Feb 3, 2017)

Is this where I can get opinion about 2 bikes I am looking at on Craigslist?


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## MarcMoon (Feb 3, 2017)

*Looking for first Road Bike. Considering one these*

2009 Trek 1.5 Triple $600.00
Frame Alpha Black Aluminum
Fork Bontrager Race, carbon; SpeedTrap compatible
Wheels Bontrager Race Lite 
Tires Bontrager Select, 700x25c
Shifters Shimano Sora STI, 9 speed
Front derailleur Shimano Sora 
Rear derailleur Shimano Tiagra GS
Crank FSA Vero 50/39/30
Cassette SRAM PG950 11-26, 9 speed
Saddle Bontrager Race Basic
Seatpost Bontrager Race Lite Basic
Handlebar Bontrager SSR VR Bend OS, 31.8mm
Stem Bontrager Race Lite OS, 7 degree, 31.8mm
Headset Aheadset w/semi-cartridge bearings, integrated, sealed, alloy
Brakeset Alloy dual pivot w/Shimano Sora STI levers
VS

Maroon R 2000 Cannondale S1 slice Ultra
58 cm,mavic rims,carbon fiber handle bar in good condition $475.00 OBO.


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

You may want to start your own thread rather than hijack this one, might get more hits and responses. But I would say if your budget is $600 and you are patient, you can find MUCH better than those two.


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## darwinosx (Oct 12, 2010)

Peter P. said:


> If you want to fit 28mm tires on your bike, your bike, your only choice is disc brakes.
> Disc brakes eliminate the brake arch over the tire, freeing up room for larger tires.
> If you can live with 25mm tires, rim brakes are fine; they have been, for decades.


Huh? I've been putting 28's on rim brake bikes for 30 years. Most newer rim brake bikes allow 28's easily as well.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

MarcMoon said:


> 2009 Trek 1.5 Triple $600.00
> Frame Alpha Black Aluminum
> Fork Bontrager Race, carbon; SpeedTrap compatible
> Wheels Bontrager Race Lite
> ...


I would tend to favor the Cannondale.

If you choose the Trek, keep in mind that there have been many instances of premature failure on those Bontrager wheels - spoke hole cracking. So budget yourself another $200 for an entry level road wheelset.


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## Piconner (Mar 7, 2017)

*Trek Madone 5.2*

I think it has been long enough where I can hijack this thread and make it my own so I don't have to create a new one for a simple questions.

Can someone with a little more experience take a look at this and see if it's a good deal or I'm way out of line? I'm about to pull the trigger on it. To me, everything seem to be high quality, but I could be wrong. Looking at the wheels alone, those are $800 wheels. It's also in fantastic condition. I've been looking online for a cheap bike to figure out what I like and don't like, but I've wasted a lot of time doing so and I've gotten nowhere with it. I've decided to ditch that idea and just get the bike that I plan on using for years to come. I have committed to doing a 106 mile race in November with no riding experience and need to start trailing. This bike is listed for 2k, I offered $1,100 and he laughed in my face. He said he'll do $1,900 for it. Here are the specs: 


2014 Trek Madone 5.2 (All black)
Frame size 58cm.
Groupo: SRAM Force. 11 SPD.
Crank size: 50/34 175mm
Cassette: Sram Power dome 11/28.
Shifters: Sram Double Tap.
Bars: Bontrager Carbon RXL 42CM
STEM: Bontrager XXX Carbon 90mm.
Saddle: Bontrager Carbon RXL 138.
Wheels: Mercury M5


Any advice is helpful, I just don't want to overpay, which is easy to do when you're new to something. Thank you all!


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## ruarmani (Jan 30, 2017)

You are more than welcome. It is yours now.

By the way, I had a chance to ride my Focus and I love it. And, I had to basically stop myself buying cycling stuff, I got so much into it and carried on ..... clothes, little things, tubes, pump, bottle cages, quad lock, lights, etc... stopped for now.


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## yassine (Mar 7, 2017)

Best advice I and realistically anyone else


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Piconner said:


> I think it has been long enough where I can hijack this thread and make it my own so I don't have to create a new one for a simple questions.
> 
> Can someone with a little more experience take a look at this and see if it's a good deal or I'm way out of line? I'm about to pull the trigger on it. To me, everything seem to be high quality, but I could be wrong. Looking at the wheels alone, those are $800 wheels. It's also in fantastic condition. I've been looking online for a cheap bike to figure out what I like and don't like, but I've wasted a lot of time doing so and I've gotten nowhere with it. I've decided to ditch that idea and just get the bike that I plan on using for years to come. I have committed to doing a 106 mile race in November with no riding experience and need to start trailing. This bike is listed for 2k, I offered $1,100 and he laughed in my face. He said he'll do $1,900 for it. Here are the specs:
> 
> ...


This is what Bicycle Blue Book comes up with:

https://www.bicyclebluebook.com/SearchListingDetail.aspx?id=3052606&make=750&model=62139 

That being said, since this is a used carbon bike, I would have a trusted bike shop examine the frame carefully for damage.

Also, while those wheels seem like they would obviously increase the value, I have to ask you how much do you weigh? If you are anywhere north of 200lbs., carbon hoops are probably not a great idea.

BTW, if I were asking $2K for a bike and you offered me $1,100, I would laugh in your face too.


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## Piconner (Mar 7, 2017)

I absolutely expected to get laughed at for that offer, haha. The blue book is the first thing I looked at, and with the upgrades, I thought $1,900 was a good deal. He's upgraded more than just the wheels and if I bought this bike without upgrades from someone else for $1500 and did upgrades, it would end up being a lot more than the $400 that I could just pay now. I could ride with a small child on my back and not be 200+. I'm 6 foot 150!


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Piconner said:


> I absolutely expected to get laughed at for that offer, haha. The blue book is the first thing I looked at, and with the upgrades, I thought $1,900 was a good deal. He's upgraded more than just the wheels and if I bought this bike without upgrades from someone else for $1500 and did upgrades, it would end up being a lot more than the $400 that I could just pay now. I could ride with a small child on my back and not be 200+. I'm 6 foot 150!



OK the, it sounds like a good deal......if it hasn't been crashed. If the seller won't accompany you to a bike shop of your choice to have the frame examined, ask him why? At the very least, bring a magnifying glass and in good lighting, examine the downtube carefully for cracks.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Piconner said:


> I think it has been long enough where I can hijack this thread and make it my own so I don't have to create a new one for a simple questions.
> 
> Can someone with a little more experience take a look at this and see if it's a good deal or I'm way out of line? I'm about to pull the trigger on it. To me, everything seem to be high quality, but I could be wrong. Looking at the wheels alone, those are $800 wheels. It's also in fantastic condition. I've been looking online for a cheap bike to figure out what I like and don't like, but I've wasted a lot of time doing so and I've gotten nowhere with it. I've decided to ditch that idea and just get the bike that I plan on using for years to come. I have committed to doing a 106 mile race in November with no riding experience and need to start trailing. This bike is listed for 2k, I offered $1,100 and he laughed in my face. He said he'll do $1,900 for it. Here are the specs:
> 
> ...


2K for that spec? I don't think that's a great deal. And I'm a SRAM biased guy, I love double tap. Look, upgrades don't translate to higher price cleanly. Like a car, mod it and you know you aren't getting money back, or much money, on the mods. That's money spent and gone... That's life. Those wheels don't impress me. Pushing 1,700g for 50s in carbon... Is the brake track OK on that with the under frame set-up? Rear brake is mounted to bottom bracket on that bike right? The design revolution that never really left the launch pad. Used carbon is used carbon dude. Crack in wheel set could be dangerous, but not a big money factor, crack in frame is both. Seller is going to eat that risk. 

Is it your size?


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## Piconner (Mar 7, 2017)

PBL450 said:


> 2K for that spec? I don't think that's a great deal. And I'm a SRAM biased guy, I love double tap. Look, upgrades don't translate to higher price cleanly. Like a car, mod it and you know you aren't getting money back, or much money, on the mods. That's money spent and gone... That's life. Those wheels don't impress me. Pushing 1,700g for 50s in carbon... Is the brake track OK on that with the under frame set-up? Rear brake is mounted to bottom bracket on that bike right? The design revolution that never really left the launch pad. Used carbon is used carbon dude. Crack in wheel set could be dangerous, but not a big money factor, crack in frame is both. Seller is going to eat that risk.
> 
> Is it your size?


My thought process is I can get the bike with no mods for like 14-1500. Those mods are worth the 400 extra, I believe. If I don't get something used I'm spending the same amount for a new bike, but it's a basic level bike. The bike is only a couple years old, picking it up from the guys house and I have all of his information. If there was a crack and he was trying to slide on by me, he wouldn't be this open about things. That's no so much a worry for me. Maybe I'm nieve, but does carbon really crack that easily? 58 is the size for me. I can make a 56 and a 60 work, but the 58 feels a little better.


Here's the actual post for the bike 
https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwi/bik/6017014601.html


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

PBL450 said:


> 2K for that spec? I don't think that's a great deal. And I'm a SRAM biased guy, I love double tap. Look, upgrades don't translate to higher price cleanly. Like a car, mod it and you know you aren't getting money back, or much money, on the mods. That's money spent and gone... That's life. Those wheels don't impress me. Pushing 1,700g for 50s in carbon... Is the brake track OK on that with the under frame set-up? Rear brake is mounted to bottom bracket on that bike right? The design revolution that never really left the launch pad. Used carbon is used carbon dude. Crack in wheel set could be dangerous, but not a big money factor, crack in frame is both. Seller is going to eat that risk.
> 
> Is it your size?


I agree with much of this. Buying used CF frame/ fork is a risk. Used frame/ fork/ wheelset, more of a risk. 

Cost of upgrades isn't generally retrievable, so the seller can laugh at the price offered, but I doubt there's a line waiting to pay it. 

Re: the wheelset, below is a link to reviews... generally positive, but not all. If you do opt to buy the bike, be careful to use the upgraded OEM pads mentioned in the reviews. 

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/mercury-wheels-m5-clincher-wheelset#review-atg635320

Lastly, getting your sizing requirements met is a biggie in the bike world. Get this wrong and the bike will never fit well and won't be a great deal, no matter the price paid. 

My best advice is to (roughly) half your budget and buy new from a reputable LBS. Lots of very nice bikes offered in the $1,200 price range. And with it you get sizing/ fit assistance and a warranty. Maybe less bling, but a better bet, IMHO.


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

$1400-$1900 can get you a lot of new bike, way past entry level, if you keep your eyes open for sales. Honestly you should be able to find a 105/Ultegra mix in that price range, in some cases full on Ultegra although probably on an alloy frame.

But if that alloy frame is say a CAAD12 or Allez, you are not really missing out on the whole carbon thing...


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## Tachycardic (Mar 31, 2013)

I think PBL450's views are common here. Buying used carbon is a risk that many here won't take. Does carbon crack easily? If it was a simple yes or no answer, then either no one would be buying used carbon or everyone would. So the answer is, it depends. Take a stem and crank down on the bolts too much and a CF steerer will crack using a simple hex wrench. CF wheels are designed to take the stresses of tensioned spokes; if there is a crack, either it was a manufacturing defect, the wheel builder messed up somewhere, or they were ridden hard--really hard.

And in that lies the problem. Was the bike abused? Was it crashed? Regardless of how the bike is presented, the greatest risk is the unknown. Yes, you have to be going into the deal hoping for the best, but you would be foolish not to expect the worst. If the bike fits and you get years of reliable enjoyment out of it then great! If something fails and you feel like you're been shystered, well, take it as a lesson in life. 

Counter with $1800. Caveat emptor.


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## Piconner (Mar 7, 2017)

jetdog9 said:


> $1400-$1900 can get you a lot of new bike, way past entry level, if you keep your eyes open for sales. Honestly you should be able to find a 105/Ultegra mix in that price range, in some cases full on Ultegra although probably on an alloy frame.
> 
> But if that alloy frame is say a CAAD12 or Allez, you are not really missing out on the whole carbon thing...


I've seen Cannondale CAAD12 for $1500. I believe it was a 2016 model. Is that a better deal? The biggest problem here is I haven't had a bike since I was 14 and it was a Kmart huffy for $120. When it comes to the ins-and-outs of this stuff, I'm completely lost. I've been looking daily for 2 months and I still hardly know what's going on. I thought the one I posted was a good deal, and to an extent still do. It seems like everyone is saying to avoid it because it's CF and COULD BE cracked. If it's not, it seems like it's a good deal. I can go pay $1500 for a 2016 model that retailed at $2000 at a LBS. Or buy a bike that retailed for $3500 in 2014 with $1500 in upgrades for $1900. From a value standpoint, that looked good to me, but like I said, I'm a novice.

The bike shops in Detroit aren't the best either. They're all custom made shops and repair shops. Couple Trek stores, but they were all selling new models that we're discounted.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Piconner said:


> I've seen Cannondale CAAD12 for $1500. I believe it was a 2016 model. Is that a better deal? The biggest problem here is I haven't had a bike since I was 14 and it was a Kmart huffy for $120. When it comes to the ins-and-outs of this stuff, I'm completely lost. I've been looking daily for 2 months and I still hardly know what's going on. I thought the one I posted was a good deal, and to an extent still do. It seems like everyone is saying to avoid it because it's CF and COULD BE cracked. If it's not, it seems like it's a good deal. I can go pay $1500 for a 2016 model that retailed at $2000 at a LBS. Or buy a bike that retailed for $3500 in 2014 with $1500 in upgrades for $1900. From a value standpoint, that looked good to me, but like I said, I'm a novice.
> 
> The bike shops in Detroit aren't the best either. They're all custom made shops and repair shops. Couple Trek stores, but they were all selling new models that we're discounted.


This, to me, describes someone who should be buying new from a LBS. You admit you're lost on the topic of bikes/ components - so I'm assuming fitting yourself is out. 

Why not visit some shops, ride a few bikes in your price range, and pick the best bike (hopefully) at the best shop - one that offers a decent fitting for the price of the bike purchase. If that means broadening the search beyond Detroit, IMO it would be an investment versus settling for new/ used within a certain proximity. 

As to "value", there's different ways of looking at that. If you get a used bike that is your size, but not fitted to you, will you ever be *really* comfortable riding it? Then, how important will those upgraded components/ wheelsets be. 

And when buying used CF, there's the risk factor. No warranty and expensive to repair. So if you're set on buying used, my suggestion is to stay with alu/ steel frames.


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## Piconner (Mar 7, 2017)

PJ352 said:


> This, to me, describes someone who should be buying new from a LBS. You admit you're lost on the topic of bikes/ components - so I'm assuming fitting yourself is out.
> 
> Why not visit some shops, ride a few bikes in your price range, and pick the best bike (hopefully) at the best shop - one that offers a decent fitting for the price of the bike purchase. If that means broadening the search beyond Detroit, IMO it would be an investment versus settling for new/ used within a certain proximity.
> 
> ...



That's good advice, I appreciate that. Here's probably a dumb question, but would do a ton for me. WHen I went to a local bike shop the only "fitting" they did was have me stand over the bike and see the clearance when lifted. That's how I figured out the size I need. What more custom fitting is there? I imagine just adjusting the seat/handlebars/etc. but can't you do that on both a new and used bike? Is there something I'm missing here? Or are you more suggesting that I ride a few bikes, see which fits best, and that's what I should buy?

I think in any circumstance, it's going to take getting used to the angle of riding a road bike. I have terrible posture with no back muscle in sight, so no matter what it's going to take some getting used to. 

BTW- thanks for all the help from everyone, this feedback is helping out a ton.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Piconner said:


> That's good advice, I appreciate that. Here's probably a dumb question, but would do a ton for me. WHen I went to a local bike shop the only "fitting" they did was have me stand over the bike and see the clearance when lifted. That's how I figured out the size I need. What more custom fitting is there? I imagine just adjusting the seat/handlebars/etc. but can't you do that on both a new and used bike? Is there something I'm missing here? Or are you more suggesting that I ride a few bikes, see which fits best, and that's what I should buy?
> 
> I think in any circumstance, it's going to take getting used to the angle of riding a road bike. I have terrible posture with no back muscle in sight, so no matter what it's going to take some getting used to.
> 
> BTW- thanks for all the help from everyone, this feedback is helping out a ton.


Not dumb questions at all. Quite the opposite, in fact. 

First off, that shop that had you stand over the top tube to size you doesn't have a clue, so don't go back there. Or if you do, ask for someone else to assist you.

Unfortunately, there are less than reputable shops, so part of the buying process is to find a shop that promotes the importance of fit and test rides. 

Sizing comes before fitting, but as to fittings, there are different levels. Barring some anatomical issues/ injuries, most cyclists do fine with standard fittings included with a bike purchase. They'll generally consist of initial saddle adjustments (level/ height/ fore, aft) and adjustment to reach/ drop. Then a test ride and maybe tweaks to fit from there. Any reputable shop will include post-purchase tweaks as well - common during the acclimation process.

Can this be done when buying used? Yes, but sizing has to be right for a fitting to go well, so that will be on you. And there's an added cost, because the bike wasn't purchased from the LBS. So, some things to consider. 

Custom fittings that you mentioned are more involved, sometime employing software/ lasers to track knee alignment, etc. and can run upwards of $100, but not something you'll have to consider right now.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Piconner said:


> The biggest problem here is I haven't had a bike since I was 14 and it was a Kmart huffy for $120. When it comes to the ins-and-outs of this stuff, I'm completely lost.



If this is indeed the case, I agree with PJ352 that you would be best off with a reputable bike shop. It's too bad you have found the shops in your area as not being that good. Are there any bike clubs in your area? If so, you may want to contact them and see if they can tell you which shops are better and which you should avoid. Online ratings can give you some clues too, but you need to be able to read between the lines when it comes to the negative reviews. Some are legitimate complaints and some are simply whiny customers who are never satisfied. Still others may have just caught the shop on a bad day. Of course, if there are many negative ratings, well, there's your red flag.



PJ352 said:


> Unfortunately, there are less than reputable shops, so part of the buying process is to find a shop that promotes the importance of fit and test rides.
> 
> Sizing comes before fitting, but as to fittings, there are different levels. Barring some anatomical issues/ injuries, most cyclists do fine with standard fittings included with a bike purchase. They'll generally consist of initial saddle adjustments (level/ height/ fore, aft) and adjustment to reach/ drop. Then a test ride and maybe tweaks to fit from there. Any reputable shop will include post-purchase tweaks as well - common during the acclimation process.
> 
> ...


Good info here - especially on the difference between sizing and fitting.

Sizing is just where the salesperson positions you on a few different bikes to get an idea what size frame you take. Now keep in mind that different brands can be sized slightly different. Just like with clothing, a size 56 Cannondale may not be the same as a size 56 Trek. Some brands run large, others run small.

Fitting isn't done until after you have decided on the bike you want. A good shop will put you and your new bike on their trainer, watch you pedal and make adjustments here and there to dial in your fit just right. This will usually involve a few body measurements including a tool they use to measure your knee angle on the longest part of the pedal stroke. Most shops will include this free with a bike purchase, but will charge you $100-200 to have this done on a bike you didn't buy there.

The ones that use software, lasers or other high tech stuff usually cost well over $100. The well known Guru Fit costs $500, but it is questionable whether most riders really need this. I am not convinced this level of fit is necessary.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Look at Fuji and Giant. They both have nice carbon bikes spec'd like the used one you are looking at for cheaper. 

Here are two to consider.

https://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1201505_-1_400306__400306

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/tcr-advanced-2

I have tested both and they ride exceptionally. Great values IMO.


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## taralon (Sep 1, 2011)

I'm going to step back and point out that for the same price you were looking at that used Carbon Fiber bike, you can get a well equipped, new, aluminum frame model.

I bought aluminum back in 2010 because I realized I wasn't going to be racing the bike, just riding for fitness and fun. Buying it at a $1000 discount over the equivalent carbon frame bike let me get a lot of nice gear, and an upgraded set of wheels and I was still under the price of the carbon bike. I knew I was also going to chain it up against bike racks rather frequently (gas was expensive so short 'get out' trips happened on the bike), and that appeared to be a bad idea with a carbon fiber frame. I've ridden that frame near daily since, laid it down once badly enough that I would have likely been facing replacement with a carbon frame. 

The price makes aluminum very attractive when just getting into the sport, and if a year, six months, two years later you decide you want to upgrade to carbon, you can get a carbon frameset and transfer over the parts from the aluminum bike if money is tight, for about the same price you'd initially buy the carbon bike to begin with.

I've got to +1 on finding a good bike shop that does a good fitting. I purposely spent more (even the cheapskate I am) to buy from a shop that bent over backwards setting me up on several bikes. I had told them up front I was just testing them out, doing research, but the salesperson at the one shop *insisted* on getting me fit correctly on each bike before letting me take it out for a test ride. The other shop I went to was the "stand over the frame" type of place. Good service is good service, and is worth almost any price.


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## MarcMoon (Feb 3, 2017)

Would like to thank you all for your responses and advice.
After mos. of looking I felt a lil overwhelmed. I decided to take your advice and build a relationship with a LBS. great move. I learned so much in a cpl hours. Lots of hands on education. I now own a 2016 Jamis Ventura, tiagra group set with disc brakes. I worry if I got the best deal but the one on one service was well worth it in my opinion.
Thank you all again


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## MarcMoon (Feb 3, 2017)

Hey Guys
Took my new Jamis out for a spin.......diagnosis..Broken Elbow. 😂😂
Gotta Love it.


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## Mcfarton (May 23, 2014)

Ohh no what got you? Was it trying to unclip?

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

MarcMoon said:


> Hey Guys
> Took my new Jamis out for a spin.......diagnosis..Broken Elbow. 😂😂
> Gotta Love it.


Sorry man. It happens. Heal up and get back out there.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Whoa, sorry about your misfortune. Hope you're quick to heal and return to riding. It's a great sport. Would hate to see you miss out after such a short stint and a dose of bad luck.


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