# Theory of Dutch bike design



## PdxMark (Feb 3, 2004)

Here's an <a href="http://clevercycles.com/"> interesting article</a> about the theory of how Dutch city bike designs differ from the various bike alternatives here in the US, like comfort bikes, hybrids, semi-bents (Electra Amsterdam), etc. This is from a new shop here in Portland that is importing & selling true Dutch bikes. It turns out it's all in the seat tube angle...


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

The other thing to think about here is that Holland is only twice the size of New Jersey. It's flat and it's fairly temperate. 

So, Dutch bikes are pretty specialized to a pretty small cycling ecosystem. 

It would be interesting if someone tried to design bikes specific to smaller areas like that here in the states- A wisconsin bike would be designed to take advantage of the amazing dairy road system, but also be able to swap in wide, studded tires when winter hits. Heated grips might be as important as a lighting system...


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## wooglin (Feb 22, 2002)

Why does the road racer have a paunch?


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## wasfast (Feb 3, 2004)

He's over 50....


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

The ramrod straight up bicycle design is more a product of the protestant mindset dominating the Netherlands' early 20th century culture than any practical reasons. The only reason it was thought up was that it enabled you to look dignified while performing physical exercise. The upright position is highly impractical but it sure makes you realize you are a sinner and hell is all you can hope for.


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## PdxMark (Feb 3, 2004)

rogger said:


> The ramrod straight up bicycle design is more a product of the protestant mindset dominating the Netherlands' early 20th century culture than any practical reasons. The only reason it was thought up was that it enabled you to look dignified while performing physical exercise. The upright position is highly impractical but it sure makes you realize you are a sinner and hell is all you can hope for.


Religion deserves blame for plenty of issues in the world, but I don't think the Dutch city bike design is one of them. These bikes have a combination of comfort, convenience, and efficiency that is not matched by other bike styles. Does that mean that I'd want to ride 50 miles on one? No. But if I want a bike that I can sit on and ride at 10-14 mph with comfort and stability and a bit of cargo without breaking a sweat, then these bikes are pretty good.


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## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

rogger said:


> The ramrod straight up bicycle design is more a product of the protestant mindset dominating the Netherlands' early 20th century culture than any practical reasons. The only reason it was thought up was that it enabled you to look dignified while performing physical exercise. The upright position is highly impractical but it sure makes you realize you are a sinner and hell is all you can hope for.


:thumbsup:


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

*More than just seat tube angle.*

One of the most important characterictics of the Holland bike is placement of the handlebar—relatively low and extremely close-in. This allows the rider to balance out the upper body without the use of arm- and shoulder muscles. On a Holland bike, there's almost no weight on the bars as pointed out by this quote from the article:



> _I love watching people set off on Dutch bikes for the first time, seeing the initial wobbles of the unweighted handlebars relax a block later into a yogic smile and regal poise._


On the other hand, so-called comfort bikes with their badly placed high handlebars at an excessive reach lock the arm- and shoulder muscles into stabilizing the upper body. After several miles, the comfort of these "comfort bikes" vanishes, often giving way to shoulder- and arm discomfort. As a cruel joke, many "comfort bike" riders raise their bars even more in response to such discomfort.


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## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

wim said:


> One of the most important characterictics of the Holland bike is placement of the handlebar—relatively low and extremely close-in. This allows the rider to balance out the upper body without the use of arm- and shoulder muscles. On a Holland bike, there's almost no weight on the bars as pointed out by this quote from the article:
> 
> 
> 
> On the other hand, so-called comfort bikes with their badly placed high handlebars at an excessive reach lock the arm- and shoulder muscles into stabilizing the upper body. After several miles, the comfort of these "comfort bikes" vanishes, often giving way to shoulder- and arm discomfort. As a cruel joke, many "comfort bike" riders raise their bars even more in response to such discomfort.


they're not exactly low.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

> _they're not exactly low._


Agree—compared to a racing bike. Compared to a "comfort bike," they are very low and close to the rider.


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

PdxMark said:


> Religion deserves blame for plenty of issues in the world, but I don't think the Dutch city bike design is one of them. These bikes have a combination of comfort, convenience, and efficiency that is not matched by other bike styles. Does that mean that I'd want to ride 50 miles on one? No. But if I want a bike that I can sit on and ride at 10-14 mph with comfort and stability and a bit of cargo without breaking a sweat, then these bikes are pretty good.


That comfort, covenience and efficiency go straight out of the window when half the number of days have a windspeed of 15 mph or higher, trust me on this, I grew up riding these bikes.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

> _That comfort, covenience and efficiency go straight out of the window when half the number of days have a windspeed of 15 mph or higher, trust me on this, I grew up riding these bikes._


+1 on this. Riding these kind of bikes, you really need to make peace with the idea of getting off and walking them at times.


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