# 120mm skewer?



## Love Commander (Aug 20, 2009)

I saw Surly's Ultra New Hubs are QR-ready. Thinking about building up a wheelset around these for a possible new build sometime around the end of the year. 

I'm curious to see if anyone here is using a QR on a 120mm hub. Have you run into any problems with this as far as running out of threads on the skewer? Did you have to make any modifications? If it's possible, I'm probably going to with Ultegra skewers, or whatever quality enclosed-cam skewers I can find for cheap.

Thanks.


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## refund!? (Oct 16, 2006)

Visit any community bike shop or one that's been around for 30-40 years and you'll likely be able find high quality 120 mm skewers (Campy, Suntour, Shimano, etc.) But if you plan to use a QR in a single speed application on traditional road horizontal drop-outs, DON'T. If you plan to use it on track/SS drop-outs then add axle adjusters. Otherwise there's great potential for frame/wheel/body damage.

The new hubs are nice - I've installed them on a couple of All City Nature Boy custom builds (Mated with Stan's Alpha 340 rims and DT 14-15 spokes).


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## UrbanPrimitive (Jun 14, 2009)

refund!? said:


> But if you plan to use a QR in a single speed application on traditional road horizontal drop-outs, DON'T. If you plan to use it on track/SS drop-outs then add axle adjusters. Otherwise there's great potential for frame/wheel/body damage.


Qua? Where's the risk in frame/wheel/body damage? Were we talking about riding fixed I can understand the issue of the sudden torque applied by a skid over stressing the mechanical engagement. But for a single speed freewheel setup there's no more danger than with a multi-geared bike, particularly if the drop-outs are mild steel rather than stainless (often difficult to get good bite on with an open-cam quick release).

To the OP, I don't have direct experience with this issue. I'd suspect that even if you run out of threads, it wouldn't be anything a few minutes with a die and a hacksaw couldn't fix.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

UrbanPrimitive said:


> Qua? Where's the risk in frame/wheel/body damage? Were we talking about riding fixed I can understand the issue of the sudden torque applied by a skid over stressing the mechanical engagement. But for a single speed freewheel setup there's no more danger than with a multi-geared bike, particularly if the drop-outs are mild steel rather than stainless (often difficult to get good bite on with an open-cam quick release).
> 
> To the OP, I don't have direct experience with this issue. I'd suspect that even if you run out of threads, it wouldn't be anything a few minutes with a die and a hacksaw couldn't fix.


Yeah, I think it's kind of a myth, even with FG, that you need bolt-on axles because a QR will slip. A quality internal-cam QR can be tightened plenty. With a freewheeling SS there is clearly no issue.


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## Love Commander (Aug 20, 2009)

UrbanPrimitive said:


> To the OP, I don't have direct experience with this issue. I'd suspect that even if you run out of threads, it wouldn't be anything a few minutes with a die and a hacksaw couldn't fix.


Yeah, I thought about this. I don't have access to a tap and die set, though. I mean, it _would_ be a good excuse to buy some new tools...

But, anyway, I found out Velo-Orange skewers work for 120mm spacing (about 2/3 of the way down). Hooray! And they're quite reasonably priced at $18 a set. Hooray hooray!


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## gruppo (Jan 28, 2005)

UrbanPrimitive said:


> Where's the risk?.


In my shop this season alone I've repaired four SS/FW/QR horizontal drop-out frames damaged as a result of the drive-side suddenly sliding forward under heavy acceleration (And the riders were skinned up too!?). In every case the frames were quality butted cromo, the dropouts were steel (Not stainless or chrome) with the paint removed, and Deore XT QR's were used. And all were very experienced cyclists, with the wherewithall to understand the need to have the QR really tight. The problems were fixed with bolt-on axles (Either a new hub or axle replacement).

But as usual, speculation and heresay trumps direct experience, and I should know better than to waste time responding to stuff like this (Well heck, I've done it again).


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## UrbanPrimitive (Jun 14, 2009)

gruppo said:


> But as usual, speculation and heresay trumps direct experience, and I should know better than to waste time responding to stuff like this (Well heck, I've done it again).


Knickers in a knot? I was asking about where you saw risk as I have yet to see the issues you describe. Sorry if it came across as pissy or inflammatory. Neither I, the other wrenches at my shop, nor the shop owner (who's been in the biz since the bike boom in the early '70s) has seen this issue result in the kind of damage you described. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but in my frame of reference it seems like a series of freak experiences.


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## UrbanPrimitive (Jun 14, 2009)

I really like my Velo-Orange skewers. They're good stuff.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

UrbanPrimitive said:


> Knickers in a knot? I was asking about where you saw risk as I have yet to see the issues you describe. Sorry if it came across as pissy or inflammatory. Neither I, the other wrenches at my shop, nor the shop owner (who's been in the biz since the bike boom in the early '70s) has seen this issue result in the kind of damage you described. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but in my frame of reference it seems like a series of freak experiences.


Well, I don't have the breadth of experience of either of you guys, but I ride FG bikes with QR, and I've never had an axle slip, not even a little. But I can see logically how the alternating stresses of FG riding would be more likely to loosen the hold. 

With FW SS, I can't see how slippage is any more likely than on a multi-geared bike if you tighten the QR fully. Maybe I'm missing something. Do riders just pedal a lot harder when riding SS? Maybe that's it. Or maybe it's a leverage issue. On a derailleur system, maximum force to move the axle comes when the chain is most outboard, on the smallest cog. With a SS, the chain is always in that position, and in a smaller gear than the high gear you're in on the shifting bike.

So maybe there is some additional risk. 

Maybe I'm just not that strong ;-)


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