# Evo Red Vs Super Six Di2



## SByota (Nov 8, 2011)

The time has come to replace my Felt F55. It has served me well for past 5 years, but it's time for a upgrade. I ride a Carbon Flash 29er and Super X and love them both,so I know a new road bike will be a Cannondale. 

Both the Evo and SS Di2 are priced similar. Whatever bike I end up with, I won't have any "fun" money left to upgrade for a while. So it will be ridden stock for at least a year. 

I am a struggling sport level MTB and cyclocross racer who rides about 100-150 miles a week. Right now I am leaning toward the Evo. Better frame, wheels and crank. The Di2 group is so slick though, I demoed one and was very impressed by it. Any input?


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

Check with Traumamd he had the most extensive experience with those two models.


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

I assume it is one of the '11 SS HM Di2 frames? I personally like mechanical groupsets partly because of their lower cost and I can fix most of the parts on my own. I have ridden a Di2 and agree it is very nice and smooth. Also once it is setup right, don't really need to mess with it. However I like riding since my body controls everything. I don't think Di2 is "cheating" but I personally just prefer mechanical. 

The Evo is suppose to be a better frame than the SS HM in terms of weight and ridgity. I personally love my SS HM. However the EVO is the latest and greatest, so if you are keeping the bike for awhile you might as well get the latest frame. If I was you I would lean towards the Evo Red unless you just have to have the Di2 setup.


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## joco (Dec 7, 2010)

To me no question. DI2 although very nice and slick us purely a nice-to-have and in no way a need-to-have. On top of which with the EVO you can have an ultralight bike. DI2 offers almost a 2 lb disadvantage compared to new SRAM Red (and still lighter than the old Red you're considering). 

Just to give you some food for thought. My EVO with old Red, 1600g wheels an SRM and the painted version weighs in at 14.5lbs


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Di2 is like a big luxury SUV... Looks nice, gadgety but it's heavy, costs way too much and responds to inexistent needs for most buyers.

SRAM Red is like a light, fun sports car...

Is it the SuperSix with Ultegra Di2? If so, it has the heavier non Hi-Mod SuperSix frame, still nice but the Evo is much lighter... lighter group and you get better components? Easy choice!

Personally, same frame, same components, same price, I'm not sure I'd pick a Di2... Weight is a factor to me but I also like the fact that with a mechanical group, everything is easy to understand, even the inner workings, everything is fixable by myself and I already have way too many things with batteries I need to recharge... I just don't see the point of electronic shifting honestly. I also don't like Shimano's levers (Di2 or mech)... Electronic shifting makes nice show-off bikes... but then again, you'd go with Campagnolo EPS for that, Shimano in general is just so blend and boring...


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## limba (Mar 10, 2004)

I'd put road tires on your Super X and wait a year for the new Red/DA. Seriously, the Super X is way better than your current ability/mileage requires.

but if you need to spend money, I'd always go with the better frame.


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## YB1 (May 14, 2009)

Why do cars now always have electric windows and never hand crank....to me it's the same with electric shifting. Watching the Cyclocross worlds I noticed all the front runners on it. Simplicity and lightweight is nice but not having to adjust shift cable tension is also nice. I suppose it can break or get out of tune, but when I'm riding it, Di2 I mean, I feel like it's idiot-proof.

The OP has a tough decision to make.


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## joco (Dec 7, 2010)

YB1 said:


> Why do cars now always have electric windows and never hand crank....to me it's the same with electric shifting. Watching the Cyclocross worlds I noticed all the front runners on it. Simplicity and lightweight is nice but not having to adjust shift cable tension is also nice. I suppose it can break or get out of tune, but when I'm riding it, Di2 I mean, I feel like it's idiot-proof.
> 
> The OP has a tough decision to make.


And take a two pound penalty for it? Sorry I can't justify great shifting with Red to go DI2.... plus with the difference in price you could go buy a nice set of carbon tubulars. Which is WAY more valuable to performance.

Yes DI2 shifts slightly better, a ton better no... but worth 2 pounds and $2000? When the weight and price comes down then yes it will be worth it... until then.....


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

YB1 said:


> Why do cars now always have electric windows and never hand crank....to me it's the same with electric shifting. Watching the Cyclocross worlds I noticed all the front runners on it. Simplicity and lightweight is nice but not having to adjust shift cable tension is also nice. I suppose it can break or get out of tune, but when I'm riding it, Di2 I mean, I feel like it's idiot-proof.
> 
> The OP has a tough decision to make.


Because it costs more and company makes more money making you think you need it. Marketing. It's what for profit buisnesses do, create needs that weren't there and make people believe they need it so they upgrade more often, buy more expensive things, make more money out of suckas! 

Sven Nys and Niels Albert are using Di2 because Shimano tells them to... and curiously, Nys has had more dropped chains and mechanicals since he started to use Di2. But marketing works, you think they ride it because it's better...

If you need to adjust shift cable tension, it's because it wasn't properly installed/adjusted from the start. I don't see how mechanical transmissions can break less or more than electronic ones...

Maybe I'm not an idiot so I don't need an idiot-proof transmission?  Just a joke here everyone!

The only advantage of Di2 (and that is true for Dura-Ace Di2, not so much for Ultegra Di2) is marginally faster front shifts... but, haven't tried the new Red but it's apparently faster and smoother than Di2 so...

But limba has a good option. A SuperX is already better even on the road than many road bikes... Then get an Evo with the new Red (because electronic will still be just a gadget that's more about 'marketing making people believe it's better' by next year).


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## YB1 (May 14, 2009)

If you compare weights of derailleurs, shifters, and cables between the two and ignore chains, brakes, cranks, and other parts you're not going to see a 2 lb difference. Even the new Red can't be pound lighter if we're talking just about the switch gear, right?


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

Yeah 2 pounds is exaggerated... unless he includes the difference in frame, wheels, crankset and so on...


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## joco (Dec 7, 2010)

YB1 said:


> If you compare weights of derailleurs, shifters, and cables between the two and ignore chains, brakes, cranks, and other parts you're not going to see a 2 lb difference. Even the new Red can't be pound lighter if we're talking just about the switch gear, right?


Just those components than that's not two pounds, but still a lot of weight...

Rear Derailleur: DI2 is 80g heavier (that about 3 ozs)
Front Derailleur: D2 is 90g heavier (again about 3 ozs)
Battery: 80g (again about 3 ozs)

So thats just about .5 lb, right there. But he's talking complete bike, so you have to take into account ALL the components and can't cherry pick. 

And if you do count the brakes, cassette, etc...
Brakes: 100g heavier on DI2
Cassette: 10g heavier


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## quatre24 (Mar 18, 2008)

Put the road tires in the super X with compact or standard chainring set and embarrass the rodies has you pass them on your CX bike. Switching out chainrings is easy and quick. Plus the CX bike will be more comfortable with the longer wheelbase and semi relaxed geometry than all road racer but more aggressive than endurance road bike. You will save money as well. Just put the best cantis you can on it and ride it. The frame will also take the wider road tires when needed when the road frame can not.


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## YB1 (May 14, 2009)

I know this is a Cannondale sub-forum but if I was buying my first road bike I'd be looking at a Ultegra Di2 bike that comes with a current frame rather than an Evo with non-electric or a superseded SuperSix.


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## tranzformer (Dec 27, 2007)

YB1 said:


> I know this is a Cannondale sub-forum but if I was buying my first road bike I'd be looking at a Ultegra Di2 bike that comes with a current frame rather than an Evo with non-electric or a superseded SuperSix.



I wouldn't. Ultegra Di2 is overrated IMO. I prefer mechanical and would take the Evo with Red hands down. I ride a frame not a groupset. So I want a stiff, comfortable, light, good handling bike. I don't want a lesser frame just because it has an electric groupset on it. No thanks. 

Btw the SuperSix Hi-Mod is stiff a fantastic frame.


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## YB1 (May 14, 2009)

The Evo is really nice, I have been riding one for the past month or so, but a DA Di2 one. If you got the Red version you wouldnt be getting the new Red. A friend of mine who has an old Pinarello with Record 11 speed tried the Di2 Evo out and decided to get Di2 after that but could not seem to get a good fit on the frame. He also tried a BMC team SLR with Red but they're out DA Di2 specific bikes for the US. In the end he went for a Giant TCR Advanced SL 0 with Di2. He rode all these bikes on long test rides, usually more than one. 

I haven't ridden the old Red enough to have a strong opinion but I'd choose it last after DI2 and then Campy. I'd tell you get the Evo but I doubt you'll love the old Red.

And I hate DuraAce brakes on the scale but they feel sooooo good when you actually use them. Di2 is sorta the same deal.


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## SByota (Nov 8, 2011)

quatre24 said:


> Put the road tires in the super X with compact or standard chainring set and embarrass the rodies has you pass them on your CX bike. Switching out chainrings is easy and quick. Plus the CX bike will be more comfortable with the longer wheelbase and semi relaxed geometry than all road racer but more aggressive than endurance road bike. You will save money as well. Just put the best cantis you can on it and ride it. The frame will also take the wider road tires when needed when the road frame can not.


I have about 100 road miles on the Super X now. I swapped out the cross tires with 25c Conti GP4000's. The Felt F55 is all cleaned up and for sale. All I can say is WOW. The Super X rides WAY better than the Felt. It just feels more efficient while at the same time it eats bumps so much better. It stays planted through corners and leaves me wanting nothing. I did not expect a CX bike to ride this good on the road. The 46-36 with a 11-25 cassette works too, a little lacking at speeds above 35, but so are my legs. There is nothing about the bike holding me back. 

The only thing that isn't as good is the braking. The TRP Euro X canti's are acceptable but definitely lacking. I have read good things about the CX9 "V" brakes. 

I think I am going to ride the Super X for a while and demo a Evo and standard SS. The "new" Red looks pretty good, maybe I will hold out and see what the 2013 line up looks like. 

As far as the mechanical vs. Di2 debate, I'm going to stay mechanical. The 6700 Ultegra on the Super X shifts plenty good for me. The hollowgram/fsa pro chain rings make a good combo up front too. Again I am not wanting anything more right now.


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## limba (Mar 10, 2004)

Get Avid Ultimates or mini v's if you're not riding in mud.


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## trauma-md (Feb 6, 2004)

joco said:


> Just those components than that's not two pounds, but still a lot of weight...
> 
> Rear Derailleur: DI2 is 80g heavier (that about 3 ozs)
> Front Derailleur: D2 is 90g heavier (again about 3 ozs)
> ...


Don't forget Di2 shifters are LIGHTER than Red

Di2: 258g
Red: 318g

With that being said, I'll chime in since I've had Di2 on several bikes including the EVO.

Get the EVO with Red. 

Di2 does shift well (in the front, mostly) and is relatively maintenance free, but I am also happy with perfectly adjusted mechanical with smooth cables...(i.e. Yoks or Gore). 

No one NEEDS Di2...it's got some gee whiz factor and is a novelty too...but it won't make you faster....

If you want a the BETTER bike, it's the EVO. It is your best bet to increase overall performance. It does descend faster than a SuperSix (opinion, but factual in my numbers), and being lighter, will climb faster too.....

Now....doesn't everybody just wanna be faster?....:thumbsup:

EDIT: Oops....looks like I'm too late (just realized you made your decision)....Enjoy the SuperX...it's a heck of machine too. Geometry is a little different, but will still rip on the road.


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## Andrew L (Apr 20, 2011)

I think he just put new tires on his CX bike...


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## YB1 (May 14, 2009)

Does anyone NEED 11 speed cassettes? Elec shifting on the other hand shifts perfect. So do perfectly maintained mech-cable systems too...most of the time. Ever seen video of the rear Di2 der over shifting on the rear cassette and then re-trimming after getting the shift? I did that for a decade with my Campagnolo Ergo stuff but it was always a finesse shift. I understand some people LIKE the feeling of finess'ing a shift whether on two wheels or in four, but that doesn't make you faster either.


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## ph0enix (Aug 12, 2009)

tranzformer said:


> I wouldn't. Ultegra Di2 is overrated IMO. I prefer mechanical and would take the Evo with Red hands down. I ride a frame not a groupset. So I want a stiff, comfortable, light, good handling bike. I don't want a lesser frame just because it has an electric groupset on it. No thanks.
> 
> Btw the SuperSix Hi-Mod is stiff a fantastic frame.


Exactly. Not that there is anything wrong with the SuperSix but the EVO just rides better. I would definitely go with EVO Red.


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## YB1 (May 14, 2009)

Felt AR3, Spesh Venge, or Scott Foil all in "Ui2" flavor...or an Evo.


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## SByota (Nov 8, 2011)

After 1000 road miles on my Super X, I made the mistake of going to the LBS too look at Evo's. With the 2013's coming soon, the owner offered up a SUPER deal on a Evo 2. Riding a size 60 helped too. The wife gave the OK and look at the result. I got it home, installed my saddle, cut the steerer, installed some Speedplay X2's, and Blackburn carbon bottle cages. It's all ready for its maiden voyage tomorrow. Thanks again for all the feedback and comments.


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

Wow she gave you the OK that is a very nice toy.Congrat let's hear some feed back.


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## SByota (Nov 8, 2011)

First ride today was awesome. It is truly amazing how much better this bike is than my Super X on the road. The Evo accelerates so much faster and for lack of a better "keeps" it's speed better. Climbing was another area where the Evo was better. The 4 pounds less it weighs can defiantly be felt when the road pitches up. 

The way this bike is able to simply eat bumps and road buzz amazes me. At the same time, it translates every last watt of power into forward momentum. The handling is very quick without being twitchy. Just a way a race bike should be. 

This was also my first ride on SRAM Red. In short, I love it. My Super X is Ultegra 6700. The SRAM shifting is very loud and mechanical. The Shimano is much lighter to the touch and quieter. They both shift well, they just do it differently. I really prefer the feel of SRAM. It is safe to say the Super X will be SRAM before cross season starts. 

Here it is after the first 40 miles.


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