# Geometrical thoughts post Retül



## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

I had a Retül fit a couple of days ago, and one of the outcomes is that my 57cm Infinito is borderline small. So I've looked into a 59 cm frame for my next bike. 

Candidates with geometrical differences concerning hand position and steering feel compared to my current bike:

a) Infinito with slammed 10mm shorter stem: .5 deg steeper head tube,10mm longer front-center, 12mm longer wheel base.
b) Sempre with 20 mm spacer under 10mm shorter stem: 1.0 deg steeper head tube, 1 mm shorter front-center, 2mm shorter wheel base.
c) Oltre with 20 mm spacer under 10mm shorter stem: 0.5 deg steeper head tube, 5 mm longer front-center, 4mm longer wheel base.

*Whodathunk the Oltre has a more relaxed geometry than the Sempre? Not me! 
*
I obviously need to test ride a 59 Sempre to see if it's stable enough no handed for my preferences. 
I also need to ride my Infinito more (110 km so far) with the new position, of course. Brake hoods are 12mm higher, and seat 20mm higher and 8mm more forward than before. 175mm crank arms are on their way. 172.5 is ok (I'm between lengths), but going up is cheaper than replacing the frame outright.


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## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

What's the purpose of the bike?
How about some before and after pics of your setup.
On paper the Sempre sounds like the perfect bike for me. An all arounder.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Main purpose is solo/small group rides, sometimes on gravel, and 2-5h double paceline rides @38 km/h average speed.
Lots of before pics in here. It shows 2 cm more seat post now, the seat is missing 3mm on it's max forward setting, the stem is lifted 5 mm and the bars rotated upwards so that the bar tops and hoods are exactly horizontal.

I think this is a fun geometry comparison:

















They're virtually equal, save for the constant chain stay length on the Cannondales. Racing bikes.
My initial thought is that the Oltre is more of an all rounder than the Sempre.


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## Lolamunky (Jul 28, 2010)

If you really want to blow your mind you should look into how different crank lengths effect your hip angle. You moved you saddle up and forward which usually in bike fitting parlance is intended to open your hips at the top of the peddle stroke. At the same time you went to longer cranks which does the opposite...personally I would get the Oltre, mainly because I have one and its just freekin awesome, but the sempre is also super nice.


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## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

I've had 3 Cannondale caad bikes and love the geo. To me an all arounder. I had two Specialized Allez and were too twitchey. Also a Jamis Ventura that was too relaxed. If the Sempre is close to the Caads I'd be very happy. Virtual top tube on the Sempre is only a tiny bit longer. 54.5 on a 54 Caad compared to 55 Sempre.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Lolamunky said:


> If you really want to blow your mind you should look into how different crank lengths effect your hip angle. You moved you saddle up and forward which usually in bike fitting parlance is intended to open your hips at the top of the peddle stroke. At the same time you went to longer cranks which does the opposite...


 I haven't received my longer cranks yet... My measurements suggest that I should extend my knee even more and that my hips are more than open enough to tolerate my foot being 2.5mm closer at the top of the stroke.

As of today my next frame will be an Oltre for electronic gearing. Only 3 years 'til I'm 50


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## imitsus (Aug 16, 2010)

Of course Oltre is more stable compared to Sempre. Which is goood on ... gravel you said? 

I would go 100% for an Oltre.

The question is the colour scheme... I know it ll be celeste based but really the White > Celeste (QM code) is in my opinion superior than CK

edit-----------

IDEA IDEA !!!! :idea::idea::idea::idea::idea:

Why dont you ask you dealer if Vacansoleil dcm frames are available????

I had read they would make some frames

And its celeste - black logo whick is the best


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

*Yummy Oltre*

I also like the black logo (Androni's got the same on their Oltres this year), but the blue accents are a no go: My club kit is yellow and black with white. So CK it is (you never can have too much Celeste).

Did a hard hour with the new long cranks this morning (no other changes to the setup). Felt ok, but I think I need that special footbed for my left foot pretty soon. 
Now I shall test if I can drive a car for 8 hours without my legs wrapping themselves around my ears.


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