# 2014 Giro Stage 16 (Spoiler Alert)



## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Oh my Quintana, oh my.... I can only tip my hat to you Sir. What a ride...


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

This has been a day to remember for sure. Wish Cataldo could have hung on.


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## harlond (May 30, 2005)

Ryder and Quintana with a deal?


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

class ride, just not sure if it was a class act. by most accounts (including the giro's official twitter feed) the teams were informed that the descent was neutralized.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

dnice said:


> class ride, just not sure if it was a class act. by most accounts (including the giro's official twitter feed) the teams were informed that the descent was neutralized.


Eurosport says that the riders were not informed and the word did not go over race radio.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Quintana was quietly confident despite his problems early on in the race - now we know why. That was huge!


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

What a great ride by Ryder, Rolland & Quintana.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

I'm wondering if the commissaires are going to be as anal about elimination time as they have been previously all race. If they are, lots of DNS tomorrow.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

I'm still curious what happened on that descent. I'm not calling shenanigans; I am just curious. 

Without the time that Garmin lost in their TTT disaster, Hesjedal would be 2nd overall right now....

Crazy stage.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

thechriswebb said:


> I'm still curious what happened on that descent. I'm not calling shenanigans; I am just curious.
> 
> Without the time that Garmin lost in their TTT disaster, Hesjedal would be 2nd overall right now....
> 
> Crazy stage.


Quintana climbs into Giro leader's jersey after stage 16 victory - VeloNews.com

It was initially reported that Giro organizers neutralized the descent and reports claimed that motos would ride ahead of the various groups on the road to keep their speeds safe — the race’s Twitter feed even made the announcement. But after Cataldo hit the summit first and grabbed a bottle of what was most likely a hot drink, he hit the descent hard and started to put more time between himself and the groups chasing him. There were race vehicles ahead of him, but neither was controlling his speed.
It then became known that organizers never called for the neutralization. The original Tweet from the race’s feed was deleted and a corrected one was posted: “Wrong communication: no neutralization for the descent from the Passo dello Stelvio. Sorry for the wrong information. #giro”


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Here's the latest on the confusion (or the rumor of it):

Quintana climbs into Giro leader's jersey after stage 16 victory - VeloNews.com


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Rashadabd said:


> Here's the latest on the confusion (or the rumor of it):
> 
> Quintana climbs into Giro leader's jersey after stage 16 victory - VeloNews.com


Oops, it looks like we had the same idea at the same time Chris. Here's more anyway:

Giro D'Italia 2014: Stage 16 Results | Cyclingnews.com


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Rashadabd said:


> Here's the latest on the confusion (or the rumor of it):
> 
> Quintana climbs into Giro leader's jersey after stage 16 victory - VeloNews.com


TBH I'm kind of surprised there was video starting on the Stelvio given how bad that weather was. That being said, I'm glad the organizers went ahead with the stage and we could watch it, and that everyone was safe. Too much weenying out in the pro peloton these days compared to the good old days.


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## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

Didn't look like quintana was suffering at all until the last kilometer...everyone else from 30 kms out. We'll see if he doesn't pay for the effort later on, but for now he is sitting pretty.


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## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

Major fireworks, what a stage!
I'm one of the lucky ones that has no streaming access while at work so I get to wear out my F5 key catching the cycling news text updates. 

I don't envy Evans...He now has a huge target on his back.



> 1 Nairo Alexander Quintana Rojas (Col) Movistar Team 68:11:44
> 2 Rigoberto Uran Uran (Col) Omega Pharma - Quick-Step Cycling Team 0:01:41
> *3 Cadel Evans (Aus) BMC Racing Team 0:03:21
> 4 Pierre Rolland (Fra) Team Europcar 0:03:26
> ...


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

upstateSC-rider said:


> Major fireworks, what a stage!
> I'm one of the lucky ones that has no streaming access while at work so I get to wear out my F5 key catching the cycling news text updates.
> 
> I don't envy Evans...He now has a huge target on his back.


Me, and my Fantasy Team, are hoping Majka unseats Cadel in 3rd Place - then I'll have the trifecta!


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

Amazing, amazing performance by Quintana. I was also impressed by Hesjedal. He never gave up and kept chasing even in the final 1K to go. 
less than 1 min separation 3rd through 9th?
There could be a lot of shuffling around. Nothing is certain yet, but Quintana looks very good for the win now.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

It seems like there was a lot more confusion among the media about the neutralization than among the riders. The riders aren't following twitter during the race, and if they didn't hear it over race radio they weren't going to think there was any neutralization.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

Fireform said:


> It seems like there was a lot more confusion among the media about the neutralization than among the riders. The riders aren't following twitter during the race, and if they didn't hear it over race radio they weren't going to think there was any neutralization.


Sort of funny how most of the riders complaining about it all got the info on their precious radios. The only riders who seemed to not get the message were the ones who took a minute advantage at the bottom. Funny how that worked. I guess their radios didn't get that call. Bad on the race officials for allowing that to happen.


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## Ridin'Sorra (Sep 7, 2004)

My only question after all this mess is why the peloton didn't put a solid chase.

They do it every other stage to the point of making races boring. There is a breakaway (of no names), then the peloton joints efforts with two or three teams pulling together and voila, chase over. Even on hilly stages, but I admit on those it is easier to get away from the peloton.

If you don't count the complete descent from the Stelvio, which is approx. 25kms in itself, there is 23 kms of a valley to put up a chase before hitting the climb to Val Martello.

Also, nobody gives any mention of Cataldo. He was the first one to have stopped or waited as he was the first to hit the summit of the Stelvio.

Not really defending Nairo, but racing is racing. I am more surprised at the lack of reaction in the peloton than Quintana et al. getting away.

Awesome rides from Quintana, Ryder and Rolland.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

The peloton had time to try to close the gap after coming off of Stelvio, there was only a 2 minute gap. Lots of time for the peloton to kick it up a notch to close the gap, but they didn't. Ryder, Rolland and Quintana continued to increase it going up Martello. No doubt if there wasn't such a shake up in the GC, they wouldn't be whining right now.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

This is the key point. Surely they knew those three had a gap at the bottom of the stelvio with only a flat and a mountaintop finish ahead. The race was obviously in mortal danger for uran in that situation, but they didn't respond.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

There's talk of teams seeking to penalize Quintana by 55 seconds for racing the descent instead of ....sandbagging when there was no sign of the descent being neutralized. What a bunch of BS.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Now there is talk that they want Quintana to be sanctioned 55 seconds.


Edit: Whoops, just saw your post Marc


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

love4himies said:


> Now there is talk that they want Quintana to be sanctioned 55 seconds.
> 
> 
> Edit: Whoops, just saw your post Marc


It makes me annoyed enough to want to send a missive to the Eurosport guys Kelly and Hatch who refer to it as "perfectly reasonable". But All I can find to contact them is ****ing twitter.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Chaos at an Italian race? What are the chances? Lol.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Marc said:


> It makes me annoyed enough to want to send a missive to the Eurosport guys Kelly and Hatch who refer to it as "perfectly reasonable". But All I can find to contact them is ****ing twitter.


To me, if Quintana broke the rules, then he should be sanctioned. If other teams made a mistake and misinterpreted that's not the fault of the winner of the stage.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

It appears that race radio did tell the teams to stay behind a red flag.... It does seem sketchy but at this point, I don't know if I can stomach any reversal of what Quintana/Hesjedal/Rolland accomplished yesterday. It was extraordinary.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

love4himies said:


> To me, if Quintana broke the rules, then he should be sanctioned. If other teams made a mistake and misinterpreted that's not the fault of the winner of the stage.


Thing is, it certainly wasn't Quintana alone...TBH I didn't even know he was off the front until the final climb. It was Cataldo who led the charge down the descent.

Maybe I'm just sick and tired of the continual sandbagging that goes on in the men's peloton day-in and day-out....But the teams grasping for this just need to HTFU and admit they dun screwed up. There was never any sign on the road of any neutralization, nor any visible attempt by organizers to neutralize (not flags, the motor vehicles didn't try to limit speed)...and what is more the organizers themselves deleted their neutralization Tweet. The race was on. 

And further, it isn't like those off the front had an indisputable fool-proof lead that they could take to the win once they hit the plateau flat between the 2nd mountain descent and final climbs. If the peloton wanted they could have ripped that gap to shreds. Instead the peloton sandbagged like always doing the bare minimum to catch them. And it bit them in the ass. _And somehow that is Quintana's fault._


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

Marc said:


> And further, it isn't like those off the front had an indisputable fool-proof lead that they could take to the win once they hit the plateau flat between the 2nd mountain descent and final climbs. If the peloton wanted they could have ripped that gap to shreds. [/I][/U]



This was one of the things that confused me yesterday. I almost took it for granted that once the peloton got to the bottom of the Stelvio descent, they would have very little trouble catching the Quintana/Hesjedal/Rolland move before the ascent of the next climb. 

Also, Quintana and Hesjedal completed the last climb something to the effect of two minutes faster than everyone else (excluding Rolland, who was one minute behind) and even faster than that for many others. It was a hell of a ride, whatever happened/happens.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

thechriswebb said:


> It appears that race radio did tell the teams to stay behind a red flag.... It does seem sketchy but at this point, I don't know if I can stomach any reversal of what Quintana/Hesjedal/Rolland accomplished yesterday. It was extraordinary.


Yes they did. There was a pic posted of Quintana behind the motorcycle. He claims he didn't see it, maybe his head was down avoiding the snow into the face. I know I've biked in pretty $hitty weather and my head is down and I'm only looking a few feet in front of me.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

love4himies said:


> Yes they did. There was a pic posted of Quintana behind the motorcycle. He claims he didn't see it, maybe his head was down avoiding the snow into the face. I know I've biked in pretty $hitty weather and my head is down and I'm only looking a few feet in front of me.
> 
> View attachment 296072


Was Cataldo ever given a red flag to chase? Because as I recall that descent had Cataldo kept on camera most of the time and I never saw a red flag for him. and for the bunch that came over a red flag was never on camera. Even the commentators never saw a red flag on air or during commercials.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

It sounds like it's not as clear cut as we might think Marc. Some guys were so convinced the situation was under cuation that they actually stopped to put on foul weather gear, etc. The guys up front (Ryder, etc.) are saying you should be at the front no matter what if you are a serious contender, but I don't see it as that simple when you are being told by the race organizers the race is not on at this point in the stage. It is the equivalent of someone trying to spped ahead of everyone else when the race is under a caution flag in F1 or Nascar isn't it?

Giro peloton remains divided in aftermath of Stelvio controversy - VeloNews.com


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Rashadabd said:


> It sounds like it's not as clear cut as we might think Marc. Some guys were so convinced the situation was under cuation that they actually stopped to put on foul weather gear, etc. The guys up front (Ryder, etc.) are saying you should be at the front no matter what if you are a serious contender, but I don't see it as that simple when you are being told by the race organizers the race is not on at this point in the stage. It is the equivalent of someone trying to spped ahead of everyone else when the race is under a caution flag in F1 or Nascar isn't it?
> 
> Giro peloton remains divided in aftermath of Stelvio controversy - VeloNews.com


If the peloton actually decided to race like it was a race after the descent, no matter what happened on the Stelvio proper, they could have stopped those guys on the flat with the sun on their backs in warm weather. Whether or not Quintana et al raced ahead, they would not have been able to get away and stay away were it not for the stereotypical laziness of the wheelsuckers in the peloton.

To use a Sean Kelly-ism "they made the calculayyyyyyyyshun....", and the peloton's calculation ended up being dead wrong and let the break get away. Why punish Quintana for that? Hell, they wheelsuckers even had radios to *know* what they needed to do to shut those guys down once on the flat after the downhill of the Stelvio. They still dun ****ed up.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Marc said:


> If the peloton actually decided to race like it was a race after the descent, no matter what happened on the Stelvio proper, they could have stopped those guys on the flat with the sun on their backs in warm weather. Whether or not Quintana et al raced ahead, they would not have been able to get away and stay away were it not for the stereotypical laziness of the wheelsuckers in the peloton.
> 
> To use a Sean Kelly-ism "they made the calculayyyyyyyyshun....", and the peloton's calculation ended up being dead wrong and let the break get away. Why punish Quintana for that? Hell, they wheelsuckers even had radios to *know* what they needed to do to shut those guys down once on the flat after the downhill of the Stelvio. They still dun ****ed up.


So, let me make sure I understand you, your argument is that forget you were told by race officials the race was not on at that time and slowed down or stoppped, etc., you should of caught me by the finish and that's your fault…. Seriously???? Do you believe that would ever happen in a F1 or Nascar race, etc? Forget that Lewis Hamilton ignored the caution flag, and gained a lap on the rest of the field, they should have caught him and it's their fault they didn't, not his for ignoring the caution or the race organizers for not making sure everyone was aware the race was under caution. I find it hard to believe that any of you would be ok with that if you were on one of the teams behind that followed the directions of race officials.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Marc said:


> If the peloton actually decided to race like it was a race after the descent, no matter what happened on the Stelvio proper, they could have stopped those guys on the flat with the sun on their backs in warm weather. Whether or not Quintana et al raced ahead, they would not have been able to get away and stay away were it not for the stereotypical laziness of the wheelsuckers in the peloton.
> 
> To use a Sean Kelly-ism "they made the calculayyyyyyyyshun....", and the peloton's calculation ended up being dead wrong and let the break get away. Why punish Quintana for that? Hell, they wheelsuckers even had radios to *know* what they needed to do to shut those guys down once on the flat after the downhill of the Stelvio. They still dun ****ed up.


Exactly my views. I didn't see the descent, but I did catch riders stopping at the top of the Stelvio, that's their problem. They should have stayed on the wheels of their greatest threat, Quintana. Had they not stopped, they could have been part of the lead group.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Rashadabd said:


> So, let me make sure I understand you, your argument is that forget you were told by race officials the race was not on at that time and slowed down or stoppped, etc., you should of caught me by the finish and that's your fault…. Seriously???? Do you believe that would ever happen in a F1 or Nascar race, etc? Forget that Lewis Hamilton ignored the caution flag, and gained a lap on the rest of the field, they should have caught him and it's their fault they didn't, not his for ignoring the caution or the race organizers for not making sure everyone was aware the race was under caution. I find it hard to believe that any of you would be ok with that if you were on one of the teams behind that followed the directions of race officials.


A bike race is not a fragging F1 race on a closed track. Why do you keep comparing it to one?

Look Cataldo/Quintana/Rolland etc had all of a one or two minute advantage off the descent of the Stelvio. The peloton and riders KNEW that much from their race radios. That is nothing for a peloton to close down that actually wants to put in any work. No one did, and the gap actually went out to the disbelief of even the commentators. Further, why not punish ALL the guys in that large chasing bunch too, I mean OMG they _rode on_ and kept the GC men in contention and left people behind?

Singling out Quintana is downright moronic, even if I agree'd with you about people pushing on and neutralizing things.


The peloton was pissed that they didn't get to stay in their hotel rooms warm and had to actually do their jobs. They saw a chance to have an easy training ride and slacked off. They chose to mope about. When it was OBVIOUS the race was on when it came to the flat (and when even if things were actually neutralized on the descent, they would ceased to have been) and there were VERY closable gaps to chase...what did they do about it? They pedaled like it was an easy Sunday afternoon ride to the grocery store. Once they got to the line, THEN and ONLY then did they decide to ***** about it rather than ride and do something about it when there was ample opportunity and time.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Marc said:


> A bike race is not a fragging F1 race on a closed track. Why do you keep comparing it to one?
> 
> Look Cataldo/Quintana/Rolland etc had all of a one or two minute advantage off the descent of the Stelvio. The peloton and riders KNEW that much from their race radios. That is nothing for a peloton to close down that actually wants to put in any work. No one did, and the gap actually went out to the disbelief of even the commentators. Further, why not punish ALL the guys in that large chasing bunch too, I mean OMG they _rode on_ and kept the GC men in contention and left people behind?
> 
> ...


Closed circuit, a foot race to the stop sign, or a bike race on an open road, caution or "hold up a minute" is just that and it makes absolutely no difference where you are. Fair enough, I guess we just feel differently about this. I am in no way arguing that Quintana should be singled out in any way for the record. I think he rode his hiney off and deserves to be rewareded for it, but the confusion and having some racers riding hard when others weren't is a problem a organized race of any kind can't just ignore and say oh well. Too much is on the line. Just read this and think about it…

Gallery: Storm Of Controversy As Giro D'Italia Finds Winter Atop Gavia, Stelvio | Cyclingnews.com


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Marc said:


> A bike race is not a fragging F1 race on a closed track. Why do you keep comparing it to one?
> 
> Look Cataldo/Quintana/Rolland etc had all of a one or two minute advantage off the descent of the Stelvio. The peloton and riders KNEW that much from their race radios. That is nothing for a peloton to close down that actually wants to put in any work. No one did, and the gap actually went out to the disbelief of even the commentators. Further, why not punish ALL the guys in that large chasing bunch too, I mean OMG they _rode on_ and kept the GC men in contention and left people behind?
> 
> ...


And ask yourself, why would intelligent and experienced professional bike racers with the win of their careers on the line do what you described? Because they are "lazy wheel suckers?" Come on man… You can't seriously beleive that?

BMC Racing Team: Giro d'Italia, Stage 16: Statement


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Rashadabd said:


> And ask yourself, why would intelligent and experienced professional bike racers with the win of their careers on the line do what you described? Because they are "lazy wheel suckers?" Come on man… You can't seriously beleive that?
> 
> BMC Racing Team: Giro d'Italia, Stage 16: Statement


Hoss, watch any women's bike races ever on streaming or TV. ToC, US championships, etc.

You'll see actual racing, and it is way more fun to watch even with crappy commentators...not lazy en masse wheelsucking of the bunch waiting until the last possible second to catch the breakaway. The men's pro peloton is best described as I have. A communal group effort to do as little work as possible until the last possible second. Then act surprised when their calculation goes awry and look to the commissaires to ex-post-facto fix their screwup in their favor.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

If there were a reliable time check near the bottom of the stelvio, they could just add back any time gains made by any riders ahead of the maglia rosa after the summit. That would effectively neutralize the descent after the fact, and leave in place the beating the lead group inflicted from then on.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Fireform said:


> If there were a reliable time check near the bottom of the stelvio, they could just add back any time gains made by any riders ahead of the maglia rosa after the summit. That would effectively neutralize the descent after the fact, and leave in place the beating the lead group inflicted from then on.


Makes sense to me.


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## cale262 (Apr 28, 2010)

Marc said:


> ...The peloton was pissed that they didn't get to stay in their hotel rooms warm and had to actually do their jobs. They saw a chance to have an easy training ride and slacked off. They chose to mope about. When it was OBVIOUS the race was on when it came to the flat (and when even if things were actually neutralized on the descent, they would ceased to have been) and there were VERY closable gaps to chase...what did they do about it? They pedaled like it was an easy Sunday afternoon ride to the grocery store. Once they got to the line, THEN and ONLY then did they decide to ***** about it rather than ride and do something about it when there was ample opportunity and time.



^^^THIS, end thread. :thumbsup:


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

Watching the coverage on teevee I never saw a red flag. I have since seen still photos of them online, but with no indication that anyone went around one. Did they? If not, what rule did anyone break by riding? And if they didn't break a rule, how on earth can anyone justify relegating them?

Personally, if the results of this stage are messed with I'll be hugely disappointed.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Rashadabd said:


> Makes sense to me.


1+ - Though I don't think they should do that, but I think if they must mess with a historic stage - Fireform's solution sounds the most reasonable - ergo - it will not happen.

You know who should be sanctioned? The race organizers for not getting their message right the first time. By doing what they did, they provided ample ammo for the whiner brigades.


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## Ridin'Sorra (Sep 7, 2004)

Rashadabd said:


> And ask yourself, why would intelligent and experienced professional bike racers with the win of their careers on the line do what you described? Because they are "lazy wheel suckers?" Come on man… You can't seriously beleive that?



Forget about how Quintana got 1 minute over the peloton for a second, you have 6 GC-threat riders up the road by themselves and you, a GC contender are back in the peloton along with a few other GC's AND THE MAGLIA ROSA with your domestiques with at least 23km of rather flat stretch ahead of you.

Honestly, what do you do?


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Fireform said:


> If there were a reliable time check near the bottom of the stelvio, they could just add back any time gains made by any riders ahead of the maglia rosa after the summit. That would effectively neutralize the descent after the fact, and leave in place the beating the lead group inflicted from then on.


But only if the descent was to be neutralized.

And until I hear officially that Quintana, Ryder, and Rolland passed the moto with the red flag before they should have, then I believe there was no wrong doing by them. If the DS misinterpreted the message sent out on the Race Radio, then that's their problem. Not those who chose not to stop for tea at the top of the hill.

Also, does anybody know what a red flag means? I heard that it means "caution" and a red & white one means "neutralization". I only saw a red one.

What I do believe happened is the "rumour" that neutralization was going to happen and riders took it as fact. They followed the leader. When one rider stopped, everybody else behind them did too. 

From: Giro peloton remains divided in aftermath of Stelvio controversy - VeloNews.com



> One big question Wednesday morning was whether or not Quintana and others passed a motorcycle with a red flag in the raised position.
> 
> There are images taken from the RAI broadcast that show Movistar riders slipping past a motorcycle with a red flag still in the vertical position. *What’s unclear was if there were other motorcycles ahead of them at that moment.
> 
> ...


So did they go past one motorcycle because there was another one waiting for them up ahead? 

One thing I hope tour organizers learn from this is to have clearer rules on what is to happen when there is expected inclement weather and have that discussion with DS before the stage starts.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Marc said:


> .not lazy en masse wheelsucking of the bunch waiting until the last possible second to catch the breakaway. The men's pro peloton is best described as I have. A communal group effort to do as little work as possible until the last possible second. Then act surprised when their calculation goes awry and look to the commissaires to ex-post-facto fix their screwup in their favor.


I seem to be seeing that more and more.


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## ymerej (Sep 13, 2005)

Nairo earned every second of that stage, if a guy from South America can ride in the worst conditions around so can everyone else he is pure class and kicked everybody's ass the guy freaking lives down near the equator and is riding in freezing conditions. If the rest of the peloton can not ride in those conditions they should retire and work like the rest of us and grow a pair.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

Ridin'Sorra said:


> Forget about how Quintana got 1 minute over the peloton for a second, you have 6 GC-threat riders up the road by themselves and you, a GC contender are back in the peloton along with a few other GC's AND THE MAGLIA ROSA with your domestiques with at least 23km of rather flat stretch ahead of you.
> 
> Honestly, what do you do?


in a normal stage, you pursue with vigor. although under the circumstances-- having just climbed 16,000 ft in the freezing cold and facing another 5,000 ft of elevation, even elite cyclists are very likely to be in preservation mode. 

read the quotes from Bernie Eisel, Vaughters and other current or former riders and you'll see what a freak show that stage was.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

dnice said:


> in a normal stage, you pursue with vigor. although under the circumstances-- having just climbed 16,000 ft in the freezing cold and facing another 5,000 ft of elevation, even elite cyclists are very likely to be in preservation mode.
> 
> read the quotes from Bernie Eisel, Vaughters and other current or former riders and you'll see what a freak show that stage was.


And Quintana and Rolland and Cataldo etc rode the same weather on the same roads too.

Difference was, they actually put in the work.

The lead bunch of at least 20 riders and had 25km of flat roads to work as a wheelsucking pack to catch 3 or 4 guys out on their own. And they *let* them get away. If they worked together (as a peloton always do), they could have worked a LOT less individually to shut Quintana et all down. Instead they sat up and let them go. And the gap only got bigger, and everyone had radios, the weather was good...and the teams *knew* they were getting away....and they still didn't put on the chase as a peloton.

Was it a freak show? Yes.

Was that memorable weather and riding the likes we haven't seen since the Good Old Days? Yes. And I loved watching every second of it.

Could it have been handled better...maybe. Although between switchbacks and weather, even the commentators doubted the ability to realistically neutralize the descent.

Does any of that mean that Quintana should be getting penalized? Hell no. Sometimes weather and chaos are intertwined with bike riding. I hate seeing nothing but fair weather riding.


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## ymerej (Sep 13, 2005)

It's very simple you either race and earn your keep or and wait for it don't race and get a job like the rest of us. It's funny uci mtb DH has no prob with extreme weather you just nut up and deal with it. I have noticed most roadies do not have very good bike handling skills. If that is the case and you are racing uci world tour I feel sorry for you because your nothing but a *****, if you can not handle your bike go home and get a job!!! 

Go nairo!!!!!!


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## Ridin'Sorra (Sep 7, 2004)

dnice said:


> in a normal stage, you pursue with vigor. although under the circumstances-- having just climbed 16,000 ft in the freezing cold and facing another 5,000 ft of elevation, even elite cyclists are very likely to be in preservation mode.
> 
> read the quotes from Bernie Eisel, Vaughters and other current or former riders and you'll see what a freak show that stage was.


As Marc said, the weather and the climb was the same for everyone.

Quintana and his group caught Cataldo who was well ahead of the road because they worked together (with Quintana making most of the work, no less).

If they didn't have the legs to pursue Quintana, if they didn't have the ability to get two or three teams to work together, that is anybody's fault by Quintana's.

Seriously, this only looks bad because the organization screwed up.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

I wouldn't mind if they set Quintana &Co 50 seconds back or whatever it was at the bottom of the climb. Not because of fairness, but because this would make the race more exciting to watch.

I think organizers messed up. But it's not the fault of Quintana, Rolland and Hesjedal - I re-watched the stage again and they never attacked - Cataldo was taking all kinds of risks on descents, Quintana &Co were descending more gingerly. What I don't really understand is any lack of cohesive effort to get back to them on the flats. I thought Uran-Uran almost bridged to them on descent, but then went backwards and was eating a sandwich on the flats, while the group was driven by the solo Astana guy. Meanwhile, Quintana group was rotating nicely, despite only having 6 riders in it.

I think Evans, Uran and others were already on the ropes and were trying to preserve energy for the final climb - and they still lost time.

Which brings me to this: we had a mishap in TTT that made Hesjedal lose 3:26. Not his fault, not even Martin's fault - just a safety issue with the course, on a wet day, that made him lose any chance at GC (maybe not, we shall see). Is anyone upset about it? Not really, sh!t happens.

Then we have a crash on Stage 6, again, nobody's fault really, bad weather conditions - and then Evans drives the small group, super-hard, much harder than he would have ridden otherwise, to keep himself away from the chase of survivors, including Uran, Hesjedal, Majka, Quintana - who lose 49 seconds, despite very hard chase in a much bigger group, and eliminates JRod and a few other contenders.
Was that fair? And in this case, Evans knew precisely what he was doing.

Now, we have, shall we just call it "confusion" about neutralization situation that never happened (and Giro organizers are to blame, but come on, we are talking Italy where trains don't even run on time, what do you expect?) - so some GC contenders decide to sit up together, obviously aware of the fact that a few other GC contenders are up the road - riding with red flag moto or not, who knows. Yet they ignore this altogether and just ride easy on the flats. Even if they thought the descent (or the top 1500m or whatever) was neutralized, does this make any sense? And when was the last time we had "neutralized descent, with restarted times at the bottom"? I remember neutralized final sections (as in - we don't ride them, at all) or neutralized finishes (everyone gets the same time on the flat stage), but never this restarting clock business. It's logistical nightmare!

No, I think they either couldn't close the gap at all, or they thought they will catch them in due time anyways, and gambled wrong. I still don't understand what they thought - they weren't following the red flag motorcycle, right? So they were losing time to the group ahead, and they must have known there is a group ahead, they can count, right?

If you accept that what Evans did in Stage 6 was fair (all is fair in love and war), and that staying at the front is crucial for GC guys, and whatever happens that creates the gap, crashes etc. - it's fair to take advantage of - these are just dividends of being at the front at crucial moments in the race - then you must accept the same rules for stage 17 - you must stay at the front and take advantage of whatever opportunities lady luck provides it. Even if it arises from confusion and incompetence of Giro organizers. At least this one is more predictable than crashes.


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## SFTifoso (Aug 17, 2011)

This is a classic case of sour grapes. OPQ and the other teams messed up and they know it, and now they're trying to blame Nairo for their mistake. I hope Nairo ends up with a 5 minute lead after it's all said and done just to shut them up.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

55x11 said:


> I wouldn't mind if they set Quintana &Co 50 seconds back or whatever it was at the bottom of the climb. Not because of fairness, but because this would make the race more exciting to watch.
> 
> I think organizers messed up. But it's not the fault of Quintana, Rolland and Hesjedal - I re-watched the stage again and they never attacked - Cataldo was taking all kinds of risks on descents, Quintana &Co were descending more gingerly. What I don't really understand is any lack of cohesive effort to get back to them on the flats. I thought Uran-Uran almost bridged to them on descent, but then went backwards and was eating a sandwich on the flats, while the group was driven by the solo Astana guy. Meanwhile, Quintana group was rotating nicely, despite only having 6 riders in it.
> 
> ...


 Well said.

Quote from Cadel regarding Stage 6:



> "Our job is to race and to race to the finish. That's the first thing on our mind. What happened behind, I really have no idea. I haven't seen it. Unfortunately, it has been a very bad day for some of the riders."


Should Matthews and Evans have waited?: Philip Gomes: SBS Cycling Central | Cycling News and Results | Video Highlights


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