# Convince me not to switch or not to switch



## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

So, 

I can't make up my mind so I will post this here on the Shimano Forum and on the Colnago Forum and let the collective mind decide.

First of all as some of you know probably, I have too many bikes, all of them are setup in Shimano 7800

1 Colnago Extreme C, traditional, full 7800, 7850-C24-TU low profile tubulars
1 Colnago Extreme, Power traditional full 7800, 7850-C50-TU deep profile tubulars
1 Colnago Extreme Power sloping full 7800, 7850-C24-CL carbon clinchers ( that I would probably sell )

I also have a Colnago C-40, Campy Record 10, Campy Electron that I also love.

Now I just sold my Bianchi, with the cash I got for it I could re-invest some money into my Colnagos.

I got offers for ( prices are on CHF that is a little higher that the USD now )

- 1 Campy Super Record 2011 (steel version), groupset new, dismounted from a new bike at a local shop, theasking price is 1500.- and I got the option to buy it, absolute minimum this can be got is 2000.- from a local online retailer 









- 1 set of Shamal Ultra gold Tubulars, used , including Chorus cassette and tubulars, the rear tubular needs to be changed, 730.- the cheapest I could get Shamals is 850.- clincher titanium colored version ( I guess is 2009 version ) 








or 

- 1 set of Bora used ( Ultra 2 front Ultra rear ) for 1800.-

or 

- 1 set of new Bora Ultra 2 from PBK, with all the discounts and coupons and taxes will end at 2200.-



So, I have the cash in hand for the SR11 and Shamals and I have to give an answer to the sellers after Eastern so that is tomorrow.

my concerns are.

1. If I switch the EP in STIT to this group it would be great, but then I will lose the possibility to interchange wheels and components with the other bikes.

That is a real concern as I also have many other parts on my stock including
- a full 7803 triple groupset for when I get older
- new spare parts 1 crankset, 2 BB. 1 FD. 1 right STI, several chainrings (53,52,39,38) and lightly used cassettes ( 11-23, 12-23, 12-25, 2x 12-27 )
- several 7800 32 and 36h hubs
- several training wheels ( DA/OP 32x3, DA/GP4 tubs 32x3, WH-7801 )

off course all that can be sold but then with a loss because the 7800 is not yet the latest groupset and then it comands less money in the market, but it is still superbly functional light and performant.

2. Bike snobery over here says a Colnago should be on Campy, but in fact all the glorious Colnago history was written on Dura Ace, ( Mapei, Rabobank, Milram, Landbouke credit etc ) they were all on Dura Ace

Reference
https://pro.cycling.it/pdf/bici_freire_pro_12_07.pdf
https://pro.cycling.it/pdf/bici_velo_pro_04_07.pdf

and off course my EP 54cm STIT is from he same year has same setup pic here.









3. If I switch to Campy the EP then I will slide into an slippery slope and will need to migrate the other bikes to Campy 11 too, that would cost an small fortune to take them to the same level as they are on Dura Ace now. I would need, 2 more Record or SuperRecord groups ( 4000 ) , Boras ( 2200 ), Hyperons ( 2500 ) and many spare parts etc. so all in all spend some 15,000 in parts and then resell my Dura Ace stuff on a loss.

4. Pedals ? I only have Shimano DA pedals, so I would have to switch them too ? to Looks ? to Speedplay ?

5. Esthetically wise I think the Golden Shamals will clash with the STIT Colnago don't you think ?

so, decisions, decisions 

Ô RBR oracle tell me what to do


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## icsloppl (Aug 25, 2009)

*none of the above*

Gold wheels on that frame will look like a pimp-mobile.

A Campy group won't make it shift or brake any better.

IMO your overall issue is the horrible looking 7800 crank set. Instead of converting everything to Campy, go with a Fulcrum crank like this one -

http://www.fulcrumwheels.com/jspfulcrum/techlab.jsp?techid=13&from=product&lang=en&world=road

You could get all your bikes a Fulcrum crank for less than a Campy group I think.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

honestly I have though about the carbon cranks.

But well the 7800 do its job quite well. I do agree that the "squalo" chainring looks better on sloping monocoque bikes than on my Colnagos. 

probably only the big chainring needs to be changed to keep on a more traditional look ?

I do tend to like the gleaming metalic parts, more than the all black/dark parts on Campy.


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## chuckice (Aug 25, 2004)

SR11 w/Hyperon...definitely no gold.


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## Jbartmc (Sep 14, 2007)

I have to agree about the gold Shamals. I have a set, and they look good on my PR82 EPS and/or my C50 in the Sunburst scheme or one of the PRxx bikes. Other paint schemes would work with the wheels, but not your bikes (in my opinion).


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## jetvagabond (Aug 10, 2009)

All the glory was on Japanese components? Err. . . You might want to go a little further back in your history book to a time when a certain Belgian was whooping everyone like never before or since. And many of his glory days were on Colnagos with Campagnolo.


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## vontress (Jul 19, 2009)

That is a beautiful bike. I agree no on gold and yes on different chain ring.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

Salsa, what about the gold shamals on the white ext p? Why do plan on sellin that one? Slightly better fit on the trad frame?


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I don't know what to tell you. All my Colnagos are Record 10 speed. I'll probably convert the C50 to 11 speed Super Record and convert the other to 11 speed as I deem affordable. This all comes down to your budget and whether it makes sense for you. Personally, you should have gone with Campy to begin with. Tough to convert over when you have a lot of bikes, but maybe think about doing it gradually as the finances allow.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Ride-Fly said:


> Salsa, what about the gold shamals on the white ext p? Why do plan on sellin that one? Slightly better fit on the trad frame?


Yes I have thought about that too.

Both the sloping and the traditional are close in feel, and I attribute that to the fact that the sloping 52s has smaller triangles but also the trad 54. I guess if I compared the 52s to a trad 56 other would be the results. 

Anyhow I prefer the 54 in looks and feel and right now has become my main bike.

I will remove the Cinelli RAM from the EP 52s and put it on the Trad 54, replace it by a Ergonova Team and put it for sale with the Dura Ace and the WH-7801 wheels. Or maybe just sell the frame. 

We'll see.

I passed on the gold wheels, It is a pitty they are not black because I really liked them and the price is really good.

Maybe I just leave it like that and someday I will buy a C-50 on Campy/Shamals or Eurus time will tell.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

fabsroman said:


> I don't know what to tell you. All my Colnagos are Record 10 speed. I'll probably convert the C50 to 11 speed Super Record and convert the other to 11 speed as I deem affordable. This all comes down to your budget and whether it makes sense for you. Personally, you should have gone with Campy to begin with. Tough to convert over when you have a lot of bikes, but maybe think about doing it gradually as the finances allow.


You could be right on this.

You see it is not about finances, I could spend that money, I just sold my Bianchi and then I can buy the SR plus a set of wheels.

It wouldn't be an issue if I hadn't so many bikes and money put into that, now I prefer to limit myself and forbid me to put "fresh" money into the addiction, I only allow me to recycle the bike money.

But also I think the bikes are just fine like they are and I think If I put the money on migrating one, I will want to migrate them all, and as I have decided not to buy more used parts, then I would have to resell all my DA stuff ( bought new ) for cheap and there you will have a real money waste that I don't want to do.

If I only had one bike or would be allowed to splurge on one bike only it would probably be a new C59 colnago on a custom vintage paintjob with SR and Bora/Hyperons. but I have already a good "legacy" package which in fact is not bad at all.

My bikes are from the 2007-2009 period and well, DA 7800 or Campy Record 10 would be the "period correct" equipment.


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## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

good deal on the SR................the shamals are expensive: get a new pair here:

http://www.materiel-velo.com/boutique/fiche_produit.cfm?ref=campagnolo-shamal2010&type=22&code_lg=lg_fr&num=1

better color and price, new out of the box, get a pair of veloflex or shwalbe HT tubulars and you have a great set of wheels!!!

I'm going that way soon, as soon as a little cash shows up


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## nicensleazy (Aug 3, 2008)

I think Shiny Bikes are the cheapest around for Bora's at the moment. However, I heard through the Italian grapevine last week that Campag will be bringing out a new wheel range in Sept 2011


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

I finally decided to jump into the slippery slope.

I will get the SR11 as the price is really unbeatable, nowhere in the world a new SR11 2011 group can be got for that price.

I got a set of 2008 Campy Neutron Clinchers for $150 that I will use until I can get my hands on a good priced and preferably new set of Boras.

I will try to sell the EP 52s with its DuraAce/C50s to finance this madness and probably the Extreme C will follow with some Hyperons, or maybe I will leave it like it as an hommage to the fallen Michael Rasmussen


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## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

Neutrons............thats cool i was wondering about those to replace my trusted OP/Record 98-99(the best year)/sapim setup

Just checked shiny bikes they are cheap on Bora's, but expensive on other stuff, as usual its a good use of firefox tabs for comparisons   6 different tabs 6 different bikeshops  & E Bay


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

There is a guy in Italy selling a set of Bora Ultras for a good price, I will meet him on the 6-7 May when I go for the Giro to Torino and Parma, probably that would be the good deal.

Otherwise they can be got new ( Ultra 2 version ) from PBK at a quite good price now with the 20% Campy discount + 10% coupon.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

FrenchNago said:


> Neutrons............thats cool i was wondering about those to replace my trusted OP/Record 98-99(the best year)/sapim setup
> 
> Just checked shiny bikes they are cheap on Bora's, but expensive on other stuff, as usual its a good use of firefox tabs for comparisons   6 different tabs 6 different bikeshops  & E Bay


The Neutrons ar quite good, I got them really cheap from a sponsored "elite" guy whose team switched to SRAM, so most probably he got them for free so he sold them to me for $150.

They are the 2008 version and are a little heavier than the advertised 2011 version, I got them for the C-40 to replace the Electrons that are indeed almost 280 grams heavier.

i will use it temporarly until I get the Boras and then they will find their home on the C-40


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## aingeru (Aug 29, 2010)

don't you want to sell some of those wonderful 7800 hubs?
If you make me a good price...


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## aingeru (Aug 29, 2010)

don't you want to sell some of those wonderful 7800 hubs?
If you make me a good price...


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

PM sent


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## Sablotny (Aug 15, 2002)

I'm a 7800 fan, and I've got no problem with Shimano on a Colnago - just as you mention the glory days past. But I've got a hankering for Campy 11 myself. Maybe some Fulcrums (I know, sacrilege again).

PS - where was that picture taken? Looks beautiful, and definitely not Clear Lake California... I don't see any trailer parks or Harleys


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

It is on the hills just over the Lake of Zürich, a nice spot for my "standard" pics as I don't have a white garage door


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

well the shop ( which is located 80km away ) shipped the groupset on thursday so I will get it monday.

In preparation to it I went to the local shops around the city to see if they will be able to help me with the chain tool.

Surprise. None of them carry any Campagnolo, not even 10 speed. 

I don't have a problem with this I can service my own bikes, but now I will have then to buy the $140 chain tool, But also what if the chain fails when I am away home I can't count on a smalll town shop to be equiped for Campy 11

How do you guys do ?


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## Jbartmc (Sep 14, 2007)

Salsa_Lover said:


> well the shop ( which is located 80km away ) shipped the groupset on thursday so I will get it monday.
> 
> In preparation to it I went to the local shops around the city to see if they will be able to help me with the chain tool.
> 
> ...


I have never had an 11 speed chain fail. The tool is BIG also, unlike other chain tools.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Salsa_Lover said:


> well the shop ( which is located 80km away ) shipped the groupset on thursday so I will get it monday.
> 
> In preparation to it I went to the local shops around the city to see if they will be able to help me with the chain tool.
> 
> ...


Don't you live in Europe? Kind of hard to believe that LBSs over there don't stock and service Campy. Not saying I don't believe you, just that I don't believe it has come to this.

My solution would be a cab ride home or calling my wife or somebody else to come pick me up.


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## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

Hey Salsa,

Drop the campy link ****...........buy a quick link from wipperman for 10 or from KMC for 11 they work great, are a no brainer, and enable you to really service your chain if you feel like it. I've been using those for my Mtb and Road bikes ever since sram started them and NEVER EVER had a failure......i even keep a few extra in my tool pack and they saved my ass on several occasions out in the nowhere with my MTB (Jura Region)


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

fabsroman said:


> Don't you live in Europe? Kind of hard to believe that LBSs over there don't stock and service Campy. Not saying I don't believe you, just that I don't believe it has come to this.
> 
> My solution would be a cab ride home or calling my wife or somebody else to come pick me up.


Hey fabs,

you will not believe it but the 3 biggest shops in Zürich only carry Scott, Specialized and Trek as their main brands.

Campagnolo, Bianchi and Colnago are relegated to smaller "connaisseur" shops, that operate more like boutique shops.

The 3 shops listed as Colnago distributors on my area carry Colnago only on Catalog, you have to order if you want to see the stuff in the flesh, one of them switched mainly to BMC.

eh oui! that's the state of the market.

No worries about the cab, we are lucky here to have a great public transport with train stations everywhere.

Does anybody here ever used a quick link for 11 speed ?


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Jbartmc said:


> I have never had an 11 speed chain fail. The tool is BIG also, unlike other chain tools.


Excactemente! The tool makes a secure connection. Use it as per instruction and your link is bomb proof.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

I am now considering to resell that SR11 and keep the DA

I rode today the 52s and the 54trad and I just love the 54trad.

the feel is better, probably due to traditional geometry and Star Fork ?

The 52s felt harsher even though it had 700x23c tyres, the 54trad was on 28x21 tubulars.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

*Update - The Conversion*

Well, after much debating and trying to decide what to do, I finally did it and with an unexpected chain of events.

I was ready to convert the 54 traditional, as I prefer the horizontal top tube that gives a differente feel compared to the 52s, however the 52s is too beautiful to sell it, not only is pretty but also the fit is good, their feel is quite close though, after some other test rides I saw that with the choice of wheels and tyre pressure the feel of both is indeed very close. I did preferred the traditional geometry though.

I did try to buy some used Boras but missed two good oportunities, but also I found the "good deal" on the used Neutrons I had for only $150 wasn't a good deal at al as the freehub is worn and has play so I would need to change freehub and probably also bearings.

Also as I don't have the luck fabsroman has to have his wife that limits his purchases I had to impose me some rules. 

So then I decided first that from now on and for this conversion I will only buy new parts and second that I will not put any fresh money into this, the money for the conversions have to come out of bike or part sales.

I sold 2 Dura Ace groups ( a new triple and a used standard ) and also a set of 7850-C24-CL wheels. so I could now go for the wheels.

New Boras are expensive, some 2600, so I was looking for the best deal around, I went to a local Campagnolo wholesaler/online retailer who is based on the Germany border, to see If I could get a good price on a set of Boras.

To my surprise he had on the shop a NOS C-50/Record 11/Eurus, a 2009 bike that was built and have been 2 years on display, he was willing to let it go for a price that was lower than the cost of the parts. On my size 56 traditional so I decided to pass on the wheels and buy this beauty.










It has a compact and a set of carbon EC90 ergo bars that I really dislike, full Campagnolo Record 2009 version, new and virgin. not even ever had a set of pedals screwed in , nor the rims had ever been braked on ! he did mount the contis reversed as you see on the pic.

I took it for a test ride and the ride was great and made me realise that it had what I liked on the EP 54, but felt much better, in fact it made me realise that the 54trad is small for me even both setup exactly the same, the 56 feels more balanced, and sure the road feel is more comfortable even with the stiff Eurus on, the comfort feel is even better with the Neutrons.

So this lead me to the final decision. 

I will keep only the C-40 plus 2 modern Colnagos

1. The C-50 as the sportive touring bike, built for comfort, with Neutron wheels and will keep the compact, I ordered a set of 52/36 Specialites Nerius rings and probably I will get also a 38. like this I can have it on standard gearing, and also on compact for relaxed rides, centuries and my old age.

here is a pic with the Neutrons, alas this set of neutrons has play on the cassette so the shifting is not great, a new set of Neutron Ultras is on order. I will also setup a set of new Cinelli Rams when I can get them at good price. 

( BTW I made this bottle cages with colnago logo but both of them doesn't fit on the frame even if there is space the place for the screws put them too close, weird )











2. The EP 52s as the more sports oriented bike, built for performance, with the Eurus that came with the C-50, it has standard gearing and of Cinelli Rams. A set of Hutchinson Fusion 3 is on order to experiment with tubeless, when they and the Neutron Ultras arrive, the Open Corsas will go to the Neutrons.










The Ergos seem to have been designed to match perfectly the RAMs, amazing !










Both bikes have shimano pedals in the moment, but they will be soon replaced by Look Keo Max Carbons.

Like this I have two bikes that have quite different ride characteristics and are estetically complementary. I am very happy with this setup.

Also both bikes have 2 cm of spacers over the stem that will maybe be good for when old age forces me to have less saddle to bars drop...

3. The other two Colnagos remain on Dura Ace with the Carbon tubulars and both have been put for sale locally, but well I am not that keen on that they get sold, if they get sold then I will authorise me to buy new Boras or Hyperons, otherwise I will remain with my current setup.


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## Jbartmc (Sep 14, 2007)

I wish that I could have sold m Boras to you. That would have been nice. You did acquire a beautiful bike. I love my C50.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

You are killing me. 

That is Winning. 

I'm glad you are keeping your 52S as I love the looks of that bike.


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## rplace13 (Apr 27, 2011)

Both bikes are killer and do complement each other nicely. The Colnago painted Ram bars are over the top. Bravo!:thumbsup:


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Manlier rings for the C-50 compact crankset arrived on the post today.

I just hope I don't need to make the chain longer as I don't have the 11 speed chain tool.


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## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

Way to go salsa..........you are reading my mind..............

the nerius rings look good, i'll get a set too, and will upgrade my cassette to Centaur (10s) 27-12 for mountains sthis summer (I'll keep the 21-11 for Paris)


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

I received the Boras today. I decided to pass on the Ultra2 and go just with the Bora ONE, 50 grams less and CULT bearings for $1300 ? I think I will pass on that. 

I consider the migration a complete success


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## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

Salsa_Lover said:


> I received the Boras today. I decided to pass on the Ultra2 and go just with the Bora ONE, 50 grams less and CULT bearings for $1300 ? I think I will pass on that.
> 
> I consider the migration a complete success


Now that looks amazing..............colnago and campa are really the top!!!


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## zacolnago (Feb 15, 2006)

Salsa_Lover said:


> I received the Boras today. I decided to pass on the Ultra2 and go just with the Bora ONE, 50 grams less and CULT bearings for $1300 ? I think I will pass on that.
> 
> I consider the migration a complete success


WOW!. That is beautiful, well done.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

before and after pics, what say you ?


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## FrenchNago (Jan 1, 2011)

Salsa_Lover said:


> before and after pics, what say you ?


the bottom just looks fast sitting there........the top one is a sitting duck


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

What brand wheels are those on the bottom?


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Nice switch to Campy. I am eventually going to have to get me some Boras and Hyperons.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Mapei said:


> What brand wheels are those on the bottom?


don't really know... maybe they came from BWW ?


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

Love your collection! You better not ever get rid of any of your Nags! Just remember, the goal is to add just one more- not cull the herd.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Switching to Campy=good move. 

:thumbsup:


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## brett summers (May 25, 2011)

As a Campy Lover and Colnago Owner (EPS) it hard not to support the switch to Campy!

Some brilliant looking Nago's in the posts above!


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