# Notubes "Crow" 35c CX clincher for Tubeless



## CDB (Oct 20, 2005)

Anyone have updated info regarding this prototype tire? I'm currently running the 29er version on my MTB and am quite impressed. It hooks up well, rolls fast, and is light/durable.


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## CDB (Oct 20, 2005)

*Oops, I mean "raven", the CX version*

Oops, I mean "raven", the CX version, similar to the Crow.


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## ratspike (Mar 14, 2006)

Wow. I wonder if those are gonna be as fast as the Crows? I'm all over a pair of those when they're finally available for purchase.


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## Josh Patterson (Apr 29, 2007)

*NoTubes "Raven"*

I spoke with Stan a few months back about this tire, he's very excited about it. 

The Raven's tread pattern is similar to the Crow MTB tire. The Raven has a more open tread profile and lower tread in the center with beefed up lugs on the edges. It also uses a dual compound rubber. 

Look for a review in an upcoming issue of CX Magazine.


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## Lord Taipan (Aug 10, 2006)

I'm all over a pair of those myself when they come out. Matter of fact I'm thinking of have a pair of wheels built up for my San Jose (with a Surly Flip/Flop hub) and Stan's 355 29'er rims just for the occasion.


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## notubes_pete (Aug 7, 2007)

The Raven has landed.


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## jollydriver (Nov 12, 2006)

*Rim Compatibility Question*

Notubes_pete

On the sidewall it notes they are Tubeless Ready. Is the bead like the one Hutchinson tires come with? In other words, will these work tubeless with the Shimano 7801/7850 tubeless rims, or are they designed for 355 rim?

Regards

JD


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## Fanaticbiking (Sep 14, 2005)

Are they as effin hard to mount as the Hutchinson are? Love the tire, but makes switching not enjoyable.


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## cyclocross808 (Dec 5, 2005)

hey guys. the tire is the raven, and we've had a prototype that weighed 329 grams and discussed a bit here and in our soon-to-mail issue 4. The new production models are out and available - it arrived hours before we talked to Stan at Interbike and they're mostly the same, although a bit heavier at 380 grams. See a picture here.

It'll work with almost any rim...although you may need tape or 'cross rims strips to take up space to avoid burping.


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## notubes_pete (Aug 7, 2007)

Its not the same bead as the Hutchinson. The final production of the Raven tires have a little extra rubber around the bead to make them seal up quickly. I just mounted the Raven and the Hutchinson tubeless cross tire the same easton rim. The Raven i mounted with just my hands, used one tire leaver to get it off the rim. The Hutchinson there was no way i was mounting that tire with just my hands. 

I don't have a Shimano 7801/7850 tubeless wheel to test, but since the tire is looser fitting it might not work on that rim with out adding the cyclocross rim strip witch weights 44g.


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## PT (Mar 8, 2002)

notubes_pete said:


> The final production of the Raven tires have a little extra rubber around the bead to make them seal up quickly...I don't have a Shimano 7801/7850 tubeless wheel to test, but since the tire is looser fitting it might not work on that rim with out adding the cyclocross rim strip witch weights 44g.


I ordered a pair on Friday and intend to mount them on a set of Kysrium ES wheels -- should I be using a rim strip?


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## cyclocross808 (Dec 5, 2005)

*use a rim strip*



PT said:


> I ordered a pair on Friday and intend to mount them on a set of Kysrium ES wheels -- should I be using a rim strip?


definitely. if you want to go tubeless so you can go lower, you'll need a good seal. we have a lot of tubeless testing in our latest issue (at the printers) and road tubeless results don't apply for cx. you can try multiple layers of tape but the rim strip works.


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## xxer (Jun 7, 2005)

Hey Pete any plans for a more mud specific tire from Stan's? Have you gotten any feedback on the mud performance of the Raven?


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## NickBarbieri (Jul 24, 2007)

xxer said:


> Hey Pete any plans for a more mud specific tire from Stan's? Have you gotten any feedback on the mud performance of the Raven?


i was wondering the same thing. maybe we'll just have to get the newest issue of cx mag.


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## notubes_pete (Aug 7, 2007)

The rubber rim strip is recommenced on all wheels. No plan's on designing any more tires for a long time. The Raven took us almost 2 years to get.


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## Fanaticbiking (Sep 14, 2005)

notubes_pete said:


> The rubber rim strip is recommenced on all wheels. No plan's on designing any more tires for a long time. The Raven took us almost 2 years to get.



Agreed.....BUT for your rims (Stan's) you really don't need them. The yellow tape doubled works like a champ. Especially with the hutchinson tires. The rim strip would make it difficult deluxe for sure!


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## notubes_pete (Aug 7, 2007)

Fanaticbiking said:


> Agreed.....BUT for your rims (Stan's) you really don't need them. The yellow tape doubled works like a champ. Especially with the hutchinson tires. The rim strip would make it difficult deluxe for sure!


Yeah the 355 29er rim for cross works with just the tape no problem. But we designed our rims to work with non-tubeless tires.


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## patricksc (Jun 9, 2002)

What pressures are you running? I'm 165 and haven't been able to go below 40 psi without having problems. 

I ran 35 in practice (and 1 lap of 1 race) the ride was great, but I lost too much air.


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## cyclocross808 (Dec 5, 2005)

patricksc said:


> What pressures are you running? I'm 165 and haven't been able to go below 40 psi without having problems.
> 
> I ran 35 in practice (and 1 lap of 1 race) the ride was great, but I lost too much air.


What's your rim setup? I run high 20s in the back (weigh 5 lbs less than you) with the stans 29er rim and tape and sealant with no burping at all. some squirm in hard corners but it's worth it for the bumps.


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## cyclocross808 (Dec 5, 2005)

the photo below was taken from Cyclocross Magazine's website btw. Our full review is in Issue 4, which is out now.



CDB said:


> Anyone have updated info regarding this prototype tire? I'm currently running the 29er version on my MTB and am quite impressed. It hooks up well, rolls fast, and is light/durable.


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## Lab Worker (May 31, 2004)

These are in-stock here in New Zealand so should be available from Stan now


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## patricksc (Jun 9, 2002)

In the front, I'm using a ZTR 29, with a stan's rim strip. At 35 lbs of pressure, I don't burp, but I've found pieces of grass caught between the tire and the rim after riding, so I'm hesitant to run that low.

On the back, I'm running an open pro. I've now got a total of 3 velox rim strips and the stan's strip. I've tested it the way Stan recommends, and am not able to get it to work- I can grab the tire and make it burp. 

I *think* it would work at 50 lbs...but at that pressure, I may as well run a tube. 

I just subscribed to your mag- I'm very interested in your testing results. I need a new rear rim and, while I want to run a ztr rim, I don't want to be confined to something that can only be used on my 'cross bike. (I don't know how to build my own wheels) I've heard that open pros are one of the worst for this conversion- so I'm hoping that another brand will let me run ~40 lbs in the rear, reliably. Any suggestions? 

Thanks, Pat


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## suspectdevice (Feb 2, 2008)

We've been messing around with standard ztr rims with both the Stans tires and Michie's with really good results. Good enough that we got some special cross-specific rims that NoTubes made for our team bikes...









Just need to go lace a pair up tonight, but I'm pretty excited about it.










I've been able to ride ztr rimmed wheels down to about 20psi, and I'm interested to see what sort of pressures my less-smooth than me team riders will be able to hack.


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## notubes_pete (Aug 7, 2007)

Well, So far iv received 3 emails today about these rims. 
Just want to clear things up, Those are some test samples of the Race 29er rim, Those happen to be 28 hole with ABT side wall. We are testing these rims for 29inch mountain bike and Cyclocross. 
They are 24.4mm wide and vary light. 

We hope to have a production shipment in January. We are doing testing on wheel build, They may only be avalible as a complete wheelset, We are looking to stock American Classic and DT swiss hubs.


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## suspectdevice (Feb 2, 2008)

notubes_pete said:


> Well, So far iv received 3 emails today about these rims.
> Just want to clear things up, Those are some test samples of the Race 29er rim, Those happen to be 28 hole with ABT side wall. We are testing these rims for 29inch mountain bike and Cyclocross.
> They are 24.4mm wide and vary light.
> 
> We hope to have a production shipment in January. We are doing testing on wheel build, They may only be avalible as a complete wheelset, We are looking to stock American Classic and DT swiss hubs.


Sorry about the cat and the bag Pete.... Slammed my wheels into curbs all night in Cambridge last night after finishing the build... Still straight, true, 'bout to go do skids and wheelies out on the cross course, but I'm pretty sure they will hold up swell.


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## NickBarbieri (Jul 24, 2007)

notubes_pete said:


> We are doing testing on wheel build, They may only be avalible as a complete wheelset, We are looking to stock American Classic and DT swiss hubs.


What is the reasoning behind only offering certain rims as complete wheelsets?


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## notubes_pete (Aug 7, 2007)

The reasoning is to control what hubs and spokes are used. With a rim this light spokes and hubs make a big difference in wheel strength. This is not as big of a deal with cyclocross, but for mountain bike its vary important. Also so we know the spokes are not over tension.


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## Circlip (Jul 26, 2005)

I understand you have issues to consider such as control of hub selection (for flange configurations that will provide optimal support the rims), build quality, not to mention maximizing the commercial opportunity for you company, which is fair game for the developers of a new product.

I won't send another email to bug you more, but can I just say please and pretty please (as the owner of 3 sets of NoTubes rims on other wheel sets) can you consider offering these as a bare rim? Even with a price premium, of course? Something tells me the potential sales as a bare rim would be huge if you include the burgeoning MTB 29er market.



notubes_pete said:


> Well, So far iv received 3 emails today about these rims.
> Just want to clear things up, Those are some test samples of the Race 29er rim, Those happen to be 28 hole with ABT side wall. We are testing these rims for 29inch mountain bike and Cyclocross.
> They are 24.4mm wide and vary light.
> 
> We hope to have a production shipment in January. We are doing testing on wheel build, They may only be avalible as a complete wheelset, We are looking to stock American Classic and DT swiss hubs.


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## artnshel (Jun 29, 2004)

suspectdevice said:


> We've been messing around with standard ztr rims with both the Stans tires and Michie's with really good results. Good enough that we got some special cross-specific rims that NoTubes made for our team bikes...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice, Any chance you have 2 extra rims to sell?


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## NickBarbieri (Jul 24, 2007)

yeah, i can see the concern, but instead of restricting the sale to only complete wheelsets, you could give clear instructions on which hubs and spokes and spoke tensions are only compatible as a wheel for a disclaimer. even complete wheelsets will eventually have to be retensioned.


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## notubes_pete (Aug 7, 2007)

Circlip said:


> I understand you have issues to consider such as control of hub selection (for flange configurations that will provide optimal support the rims), build quality, not to mention maximizing the commercial opportunity for you company, which is fair game for the developers of a new product.
> 
> I won't send another email to bug you more, but can I just say please and pretty please (as the owner of 3 sets of NoTubes rims on other wheel sets) can you consider offering these as a bare rim? Even with a price premium, of course? Something tells me the potential sales as a bare rim would be huge if you include the burgeoning MTB 29er market.


A question for you, If you had your way what hub would you use and why?


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## Circlip (Jul 26, 2005)

notubes_pete said:


> A question for you, If you had your way what hub would you use and why?


Good question ; all of my other NoTubes rims are 26" MTB, where this would be for CX use.

I wouldn't build with AC hubs. I know they've gone through several subtle updates of the freehub mech and things might have improved - to the point that you feel OK using them on many of your stock NoTubes wheel builds - but I personally had poor experiences AC in the past and would avoid going back in that direction.

DT would be great, but I think I'd be trying to keep within a slightly more economical budget. What else does that leave in between? Maybe White Industries?

I'd probably go with either standard 14/15/14 DB spokes to keep cost from sprawling, but if I had an unlimited budget might look at Aerolites or CX-Rays if I didn't think that would affect the wheel build too much. I've used CX-Rays before on my NoTubes 26" MTB wheels, but with the longer spoke lengths on these rims perhaps I'm better off with a beefier spoke? I suppose that depends on the spoke count also. I just haven't gotten that far in my thinking.


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## eyefloater (Jul 3, 2006)

I'd go DT 240s with Revolutions (2.0/1.5). I weight about 150#


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## Beerman (Sep 9, 2005)

Ksyrium Premium SL's with Stan's rim strips and Raven's at 35lbs was absolute perfection at a Texas cross race today! I'm as tickled with tehse tires as I have been the 29er Crow's. Floor pump mounting, great traction, low weight...perfection.


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2008)

notubes_pete said:


> A question for you, If you had your way what hub would you use and why?



i nines cause there the stiffest wheels going, the hubs are a lot more bomb proof then the a/c. ill be buying a set if i can just get the rim, im not some big pro that can get his stuff for free, just some expert racer that likes light fast quitity product thats not looking for a hand out, that dont mind paying for his own stuff. and my raven cross tires at 35 psi yesterday were flyin.


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## artnshel (Jun 29, 2004)

suspectdevice said:


> We've been messing around with standard ztr rims with both the Stans tires and Michie's with really good results. Good enough that we got some special cross-specific rims that NoTubes made for our team bikes...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How are the rims working out?
If they are light, good for tubeless in the low 30's, wide for better footprint and have a machined brake track I I think they're worth waiting for.


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## suspectdevice (Feb 2, 2008)

artnshel said:


> How are the rims working out?
> If they are light, good for tubeless in the low 30's, wide for better footprint and have a machined brake track I I think they're worth waiting for.



They are working out well. Hopefully the folks from Notubes will be making them available as complete wheels, as the rims really need carefull attention to even and proper spoke tension to hold up well. We can all ride pressures in the low 20's without burping. And the raven is actually one hell of a sweet tire to boot!


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## NickBarbieri (Jul 24, 2007)

i would be willing to buy four of these(or at least two race and two regular 355s) if they were available as rims only. it seems like this isn't a problem for the europeans.


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2008)

i guess the only thing that really bothers me about buy the wheelset over me just being able to buy just the rim is, if i buy the ac hubs lace to 355s its goin to cost me 670, if i buy ac laced to the race rim its going to cost me 950, come on thats almost an extra 150a rim... and if ya advertised them at 275 a rim no one would want to buy one.. mtbikes arent like roadies no 2000 dollars a set to take em out and beat them off rocks.. it would be more cost effective to mill ahole between every spoke hole on a 355 take 25g off, and still have a wheel just as stiff as the 7000 series.. and only 40g off of the race


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