# Please explain new ttt rule



## Guest (Jul 4, 2004)

I just started watching the tour last year, so there are a few of the rules that I'm not sure of. What's the deal with the new team tt rule? Apparantly they can't lose more than two minutes? What does that really mean? If they do lose more, do they get disqualified? If someone could explain that, I would be really grateful. Thanks!


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Carleton said:


> I just started watching the tour last year, so there are a few of the rules that I'm not sure of. What's the deal with the new team tt rule? Apparantly they can't lose more than two minutes? What does that really mean? If they do lose more, do they get disqualified? If someone could explain that, I would be really grateful. Thanks!



If benefits the slower teams. I can't remember if it's 2 or 21/2 minutes but a team in the team time trial won't be accessed any more than 2( 2.5) minutes regardless of how far there are behind the winner. 

Stupid rule to help out the slower teams


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## torquecal (Nov 9, 2002)

*stupid rule*

in my opinion...

but no - teams won't be eliminated. It's a team time trial scored on a curve. The max a team can loose is 2:30 (or there abouts). It's based on placing, the second team loses 10 secs (or there abouts), and the third team loses 20 secs (or there abouts), etc. no matter what time they actually lose on the road.


I put in the "or there abouts" 'cause I'm not following just what the organizers have done with it. Basically, each team looses a given number of seconds based on their placing, rather than the actual number of seconds they lose on the road.


Personally, I think it's stupid. Either have a team time trial or don't.....


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2004)

*so if..*

a team loses ten minutes on the ttt, then they will only really lose 2.5 minutes?


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

Carleton said:


> a team loses ten minutes on the ttt, then they will only really lose 2.5 minutes?



That's pretty much it. I'm not sure if there is maximum time limit but if a team is 3 minutes behind at the halfway point they might as well slow up and save themselves for the next stage.


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## torquecal (Nov 9, 2002)

*Depends on their placing...*



Carleton said:


> a team loses ten minutes on the ttt, then they will only really lose 2.5 minutes?




If they lose ten minutes and are the second place team, then they only lose 10 seconds. If they lose ten minutes and are the 21st place team, then they lose 2 minutes 30 seconds. Like I said - it's a curve - stupid rule IMO


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

torquecal said:


> If they lose ten minutes and are the second place team, then they only lose 10 seconds. If they lose ten minutes and are the 21st place team, then they lose 2 minutes 30 seconds. Like I said - it's a curve - stupid rule IMO


It seems to me that this can work both ways. What if the second place only loses 1 second on the road? Do they still lose 10 seconds in the standings?

This has to be the lamest rule ever. They should not bother racing and just pull numbers out of a hat. Whatever number you get, that's how much time you lose. It's almost as fair a competition.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

I looked up the official rule. This is how it reads:

The procedure for establishing the general individual time ranking is as follows:

Times for all riders are calculated according to the gap between them and the 5th man of the winning team (scratch time).

If this gap is less than that given in the table below, then the actual time recorded by the timekeepers will be taken.

If the gap is more than that given in the table below, then the rider will receive the time of the winning team plus the additional number of seconds indicated in the table below according to the place of their team.

20’’ for the 2nd team
30’’ for the 3rd team
40’’ for the 4th team
50’’ for the 5th team
1’ for the 6th team
1’10 for the 7th team
1’20 for the 8th team
1’30 for the 9th team
1’40 for the 10th team
1’50 for the 11th team
2’00 for the 12th team
2’10 for the 13th team
2’20 for the 14th team
2’30 for the 15th team
2’35 for the 16th team
2’40 for the 17th team
2’45 for the 18th team
2’50 for the 19th team
2’55 for the 20th team
3’00 for the 21st team

Riders who arrive on their own after the 5th rider in their team will be credited for the general ranking with the actual time they took to complete the stage.

However, riders finishing outside of the permitted finishing times (coefficient 6) will be disqualified.

As far as the general team ranking is concerned, the actual time of the 5th man in each team will be the time recorded for this ranking.

In the event that a team no longer has at least five riders, those remaining must finish the stage within the permitted finishing time cited in article 22 (coefficient 6). The time recorded for the general ranking will be the finishing time of the last rider in that team.


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## cyclejim (Mar 31, 2004)

*Why even have the TTT?*

The more I think about it the more I hate this new rule. I mean, why not just eliminate the TTT altogether? Its like was mentioned above- grading on a curve. 

What exactly was the intention? It seems that they want to lessen the advantage of teams that are strong in the TTT to make it easier for the weaker TTT teams who also happen to have a GC favorite on their team who can climb. The weaker TTT teams will have a better chance for their GC favorite later because even though they suck in the TTT they wont lose more than 3 minutes. Even worse is giving the 2nd place team a 20 second deduction, the 3rd place a 30 sec deduction, etc. 

If I had to I could stomach them saying the last place team cant lose more than 3 minutes. But saying if you lose to the 1st place team by 40 seconds and you end up being awarded 20 seconds is just wrong in my opinion.


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## Old_school_nik (May 21, 2002)

*I think it's to prevent "Yankees" like teams to run away with the race.*

I am not a fan of the rule either, but I guess the Eskatels and AG2R's of the world can't afford the talent that a US postal or a T mobile can afford - so this is the organizers atmept to level the palying field a little.

They probably asked themselves that exact questio "should we just ge rid of the TTT?" anf they thought that leaving it in with this crazy arse format would be better than getting rid of it all together.

I think they should have left the way it was but maybe it will make for a more exciting TDF in the end and we can all appreciate that.

-Nik


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## alembical (May 21, 2004)

Mohair,
Do you have a link to this rule? This seems real strange to me and I had thought that maximum time gap was 2.5 minutes. Thanks in advance, I just wanted to see the rules myself and also check the section it references re: the cutoff time.

Alembical



mohair_chair said:


> I looked up the official rule. This is how it reads:
> 
> The procedure for establishing the general individual time ranking is as follows:
> 
> ...


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

alembical said:


> Mohair,
> Do you have a link to this rule? This seems real strange to me and I had thought that maximum time gap was 2.5 minutes. Thanks in advance, I just wanted to see the rules myself and also check the section it references re: the cutoff time.
> 
> Alembical


Here are all the official rules: http://www.letour.fr/2004/docs/reglement_us.pdf


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## alembical (May 21, 2004)

mohair_chair said:


> Here are all the official rules: http://www.letour.fr/2004/docs/reglement_us.pdf


Thanks Mohair! I had been hearing the time lost is limited to 2.5 minutes. I guess I was wrong.

Alembical


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## artnshel (Jun 29, 2004)

It's a bad rule.


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## Icefrk13 (Jul 2, 2004)

Now if the times were added to your time to punish you for not going balls out than that would be another story. But as it stands this rule sucks.

Matt


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*It may not be fair but........*



Icefrk13 said:


> Now if the times were added to your time to punish you for not going balls out than that would be another story. But as it stands this rule sucks.
> 
> Matt


It sure will make the race more exciting to watch later on. As a fan, I love it, as someone rooting for a strong team like Postal, I hate it.

Len


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## JPRider14 (Feb 9, 2004)

Len J said:


> It sure will make the race more exciting to watch later on. As a fan, I love it, as someone rooting for a strong team like Postal, I hate it.Len


Like Rob Schneider said in _Big Daddy_ "Is boolsh|t. Should be same rules for everyone!"


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## funknuggets (Feb 4, 2004)

*odd*

I love the part...

_Riders who arrive on their own after the 5th rider in their team will be credited for the general ranking with the actual time they took to complete the stage._

gee... thanks for the credit on the general ranking... but get the overall time that it took me to finish....what good is that ?


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