# Tyler and Puck Found



## percy (May 17, 2004)

So, I was at the top of Mt Washington this weekend providing support for another rider and I must admit it was kind of exciting watching Tyler come by to win the event. He had lots of friends and (I assume) family to support him, all wearing Tyler Hamilton Foundation kit. There were several riders in the same kit, reportedly including his father. (Nice stuff, by the way. Even his supporters were decked out with jerseys and warm jackets, including the kids). Tyler's a local boy so it's not surprising that he has lot's of support here in New England.

But afterwards, during the lunch and ceremony, I noticed a number of folks wearing tee shirts emblazoned with the words Puck Found. Took me a minute to connect this with the Hamilton Clan and realize it was a not-very-complimentary reference to Dick Pound at WADA. 

I don't have a problem with ex-heroes/fallen angels like Tyler riding non-sanctioned races. It gave the crowd, including me, a thrill to see such a world-class athelete in action. I also don't have a problem with the fact that Tyler's friends and family continue to support him. However, anyone who thinks that Tyler is simply a victim of persecution by Dick Pound lives in another world...a very sad world in my opinion. 

Plus, I don't know anything about the THF but I assume it's a worthy charitable organization at some level. However, I was struck and offended by the disconnect between people who went out of their way to provide visibility for a charity by wearing the team kit in the morning and then proudly and spitefully walked around in their Puck Found gear at lunch. You can't blame Tyler's friends and family for being bitter about the situation (hey, I'm angry too), but their anger is clearly misdirected. 

If Tyler shows up next year, maybe WADA could hand out tee shirts that say "Denial: It's Not Just Another River in Africa".


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## CARBON110 (Apr 17, 2002)

Excellent Post !


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## dclee (Nov 16, 2004)

Hamilton is classless and needs to go away from cycling permanently - end of story.

I have a huge problem with an individual continuing to race while serving a ban for cheating - this shows a serious disregard for other competitors, the concept of fair play in sport, and the sport in general. Cycling has enough problems with drugs; to have a suspended athlete winning races only enhances the perspective that cycling is drug infested and the problem is with the cyclists themselves.

Slagging Dick Pound raises more issues with Hamilton and how he views rules and athletic authorities. Furthermore, the unremorsefullness after being caught, and the offering of pathetic excuses, only continues to show that Hamilton's character is seriously flawed. 

So many people at first believed, before the mountains of evidence poured in (and continues to pour in), that Hamilton could not have cheated due to his character. It is now obvious that this guy has serious moral/ethical problems worthy of a sociopath - his behaviour constantly disregards and undermines fair play, athletic rules, the sport of cycling and his competitors.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

percy said:


> I also don't have a problem with the fact that Tyler's friends and family continue to support him. However, anyone who thinks that Tyler is simply a victim of persecution by Dick Pound lives in another world...a very sad world in my opinion.


Well are they supporting him because they feel he's been singled-out and made a scapegoat for doping in professional cycling or because they're delusional and don't think he doped? 

I can live with the former (although Hamilton has brought this on himself), with the new Puerto revelations on top of the old stuff it seems incontrovertible at this point that Hamilton was doping to the gills.


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## percy (May 17, 2004)

I guess if I was an elite racer I'd have a problem with him being there, too. You could certainly argue that Ned Overend (who came in 2nd) deserved the victory.

I totally agree with the flawed character thing. I guess that's really what I was trying to get at. I'm more disgusted about the ongoing lying, etc. than I am about the original infraction. I tend to believe true sports heroes should have character (honor?), not just super human physical abilities. Maybe that's why the Landis controversy hits so hard: because he seems like such a nice person (just like I used to feel about Tyler).


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## CARBON110 (Apr 17, 2002)

dclee and percy, I am really impressed by both of your posts. You illustrate a really well balanced and considerate view not bias by emotion or agenda.

In light of Tyler racing, well think about it. It is his life and despite his lies and deplorable duplicity to racing and the public who thought so highly of him, he has chosen to continue his dream of racing pro. He also has been witness to other dopers returning to the sport namely Miller and that wank who was KOM for years which the French public adore to this day despite his trickery and the fact he wrecked many lives mainly Willie Voet among others

We have seen some crazzy things

How about Rumsas allowing his wife to be jailed in Belgium while he could not even visit her and had tos tay in Italy or some place. She was there for months as I recall

So, being a pro racer is no different than being a Doctor or Lawyer or CEO or public servant. You can only measure people by your own personal impressions not by what others say or what you see on the tube

I agree, Tyler is looking at life and seeing only what he wants to


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*I don't really care he doped*

I care that he denied it, especially given he did it on the grave and honor of his dog. I want a Stephen King short story where tugboat comes back from the grave and attacks him while he's out for a ride.

They won't be able to add to the ban as it would be double jeapordy, but they should add to it for perjury. Again doubled because of the dog addition.

then again, maybe Puck is Tyler's missing twin


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## Stasera (Mar 6, 2006)

atpjunkie said:


> They won't be able to add to the ban as it would be double jeapordy


There seem to be some misconceptions on this board (not just by atpjunkie) about double jeopardy.

Double jeopardy is a principle of American constitutional law that applies solely to criminal prosecutions. It is grounded in the Fifth Amendment's provision: "nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb."

The double jeopardy prohibition does not apply to civil penalties such as suspensions of professional licenses.

Even if double jeopardy did apply here, the fact that Hamilton is under suspension for having blood-doped in 2004 would not preclude a second suspension for having used other (or even the same) doping methods in 2003. If a person is serving a prison sentence for having committed a burglary in 2004, and evidence comes to light that he committed a different burglary in 2003, the double jeopardy clause does not preclude prosecution for the 2003 offense.

Hamilton may well get off without an additional suspension from the Operation Puerto stuff (for example, if they can't definitively tie him to the doping schedule that has been published), but if he does, it won't have anything to do with double jeopardy.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*thanx*

I was figuring his doping diaries are directly related to the final bust. I wasn't thinking 2003, but 04 and you are coorrect, they could nail him for 03 as well if they really want to


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## dclee (Nov 16, 2004)

Hamilton cannot be sanctioned again for the blood doping offence for which he is currently serving a ban. However, he sure as heck can be sanctioned for other doping related offences, based on recent events and information there are many other offences. 

By way of analogy, you are caught stealing bread and punished. You cannot be punished twice for this crime. But, if new information comes out that you stole bread 25 other times, you can face punishment for the 25 other offences.

Of course, the analogy is not perfect for doping since it takes only two offences to be faced with a lifetime sanction - a punishment that Hamilton deserves if any of the new information is true.


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## Squint (Jan 22, 2004)

So if an athlete took 1 substance and then immediately took another substance to try to conceal it, would that be two offences in the span of minutes that could result in a lifetime ban?

I'm sure it's in the WADA code somewhere but it seems that to get a lifetime ban, you have to be sanctioned once and then not learn your lesson and dope after that and receive a second sanction.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Squint said:


> I'm sure it's in the WADA code somewhere but it seems that to get a lifetime ban, you have to be sanctioned once and then not learn your lesson and dope after that and receive a second sanction.



This was actually rather easy to find in the UCI Doping Code. Looks like Tyler should have another doping trial in his future.

http://www.uci.ch/imgArchive/Rules/14ant-E.pdf

The pertinent rule:

273. Should an anti-doping violation be discovered that has occurred prior to another violation that has already been sanctioned, the former shall be sanctioned as a second or subsequent violation.


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## Fogdweller (Mar 26, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> I care that he denied it, especially given he did it on the grave and honor of his dog. I want a Stephen King short story where tugboat comes back from the grave and attacks him while he's out for a ride.


This is a classic ATP post... oh how I have missed you.


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## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

dclee said:


> Hamilton is classless and needs to go away from cycling permanently - end of story.


Could not agree more, when is this jack a$$ just going to go away? I find it amusing (no disgusting) that there are actually people out there for whom George Castanza is a role model for.


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

Are you sure it didn't mean the Shakespearean character had been found?


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*and I thought you'd be more entertained*



Fogdweller said:


> This is a classic ATP post... oh how I have missed you.


by the 'Puck is Tyler's missing twin' comment

how about this? Tyler is also possessed by the twin he ate giving him a Dr. Jekyl - Mr. Hyde persona, Haven of course likes Mr Hyde cause he does her more nastily.


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## Fogdweller (Mar 26, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> Tyler is also possessed by the twin he ate giving him a Dr. Jekyl - Mr. Hyde persona, Haven of course likes Mr Hyde cause he does her more nastily.


Points awarded but it doesn't better your Kujo reference...


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*kinda like a*

Cujo / Pet Sematary mix. (Cujo was filmed in my home area) toss in some MTV real world (Tyler's missing twin is psychotic, substance using SF Bike Messenger Puck)
or some Shakespeare and we have the whole Jelly Bean.

Sorry I just got back from the Track. Did an hour and a half on the velodrome. Nice that it's about 3 minutes away


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## bigrider (Jun 27, 2002)

atpjunkie said:


> I care that he denied it, especially given he did it on the grave and honor of his dog. I want a Stephen King short story where tugboat comes back from the grave and attacks him while he's out for a ride.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Fredke (Dec 10, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> Cujo / Pet Sematary mix. (Cujo was filmed in my home area) toss in some MTV real world (Tyler's missing twin is psychotic, substance using SF Bike Messenger Puck)
> or some Shakespeare and we have the whole Jelly Bean.


Not quite. You still need to work in a bit of David Bowie/Catherine Deneuve business to account for the foreign blood.


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## cocoboots (Apr 13, 2006)

anyone know which team he's in talks with? will he race worlds?

i wonder if the team will see any sponsor shakeups due to Lyler dopmilton being on the team


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## ziggurat22 (Jul 13, 2005)

percy said:


> So, I was at the top of Mt Washington this weekend providing support for another rider and I must admit it was kind of exciting watching Tyler come by to win the event. He had lots of friends and (I assume) family to support him, all wearing Tyler Hamilton Foundation kit. There were several riders in the same kit, reportedly including his father. (Nice stuff, by the way. Even his supporters were decked out with jerseys and warm jackets, including the kids). Tyler's a local boy so it's not surprising that he has lot's of support here in New England.
> 
> But afterwards, during the lunch and ceremony, I noticed a number of folks wearing tee shirts emblazoned with the words Puck Found. Took me a minute to connect this with the Hamilton Clan and realize it was a not-very-complimentary reference to Dick Pound at WADA.
> 
> ...



Dick Pound is just a ridiculous and comical name for a real person and is not worthy of respect. 

The better question is: Where can I get one of these shirts?

It's not that I don't think Tyler doped, I definitely think he did. It's just that Dick Pound is such an obvious piss-ant, that I just like to bash him. To have him as one of the vanguard of the the anti-doping movement is doing little to advance the cause. I've never heard of anyone actually liking and/or respecting him.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

ziggurat22 said:


> Dick Pound is just a ridiculous and comical name for a real person and is not worthy of respect.
> 
> The better question is: Where can I get one of these shirts?
> 
> It's not that I don't think Tyler doped, I definitely think he did. It's just that Dick Pound is such an obvious piss-ant, that I just like to bash him. To have him as one of the vanguard of the the anti-doping movement is doing little to advance the cause. I've never heard of anyone actually liking and/or respecting him.


Agreed.... I need a "Puck Found" shirt.

dclee - Please point out where Tyler 'slagged' Pound.


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## cocoboots (Apr 13, 2006)

wipeout said:


> Agreed.... I need a "Puck Found" shirt.
> 
> dclee - Please point out where Tyler 'slagged' Pound.



you can get them at walmart with your "i believe tyler doped" shirt


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Nice Fredke*

as tyhat is probably the best Vampire movie ever. But no not needed. To have that element would mean Tyler claiming innocence is truthful which would mean no need for revenge from the dog whose honor he swore upon.
See you only need The Hunger if you are the I believe Tyler camp. I think we shoulda start the 'Tyler is Full of Sh!t and undeserving of a dog named Tugboat' Camp.


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## dclee (Nov 16, 2004)

Are you seriously asking where Tyler slagged Pound after reading this thread? If yes, the slagging is: having Hamilton Foundation members wear shirts at the hill climb that tell Pound to f uck himself. Where I come from that is not taken as a compliment. 

Anyways, likely hear lots more of Hamilton and non-sanctioned events in the future - since that is likely the only competitive riding he will be doing.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

dclee said:


> Are you seriously asking where Tyler slagged Pound after reading this thread? If yes, the slagging is: having Hamilton Foundation members wear shirts at the hill climb that tell Pound to f uck himself. Where I come from that is not taken as a compliment.
> 
> Anyways, likely hear lots more of Hamilton and non-sanctioned events in the future - since that is likely the only competitive riding he will be doing.


Yes, please show any evidence that Tyler himself 'slagged' Pound. Just because some yahoo's have "Puck Found" doesn't mean Tyler endorses such behaviour.

Besides, Puck does need to get Found.


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