# Did George Hincapie ride any classics clean?



## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

I saw an internet piece where George Hincapie gave advice and observations on Paris Roubaix. He advised on diet, etc. Did George Hincapie ever ride Paris Roubaix or any other classic clean? One thing, he left out performance enhancing drugs in his preparation advice. Did he leave out drugs in his preparation?


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

Paris Roubaix is usually muddy, so I doubt he was clean by the end.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Of course not.

But he is probably the most successful open doper after the fact. He has a clothing company, a strong image, a devo team, he's got it all. And he's just a scumbag cheat like the rest of them.


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

I just wondered how he gets a pass on doping with Lance. I was taken aback with his profering all this advice, when his performances were the result of jacking himself up with PEDs.


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## rufus (Feb 3, 2004)

Cause George played the quiet, nice guy instead of the raging ass-hole. 


Despite that, he's still a cheating, doping scumbag. I don't get it either.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I'm just glad that cycling is finally clean. Again. This time they mean it.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

spade2you said:


> I'm just glad that cycling is finally clean. Again. This time they mean it.


Thank goodness.
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Whoops, no wait, CIRC reported 20-80% are still doping.

Maybe next year will be the clean year??????


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Even if he wasn't doing PEDs until a week before he still had the effects from being able to train at such a high level. They probably last years later.

Look at Levi Leipheimer on Strava. He's beating Peter Stetina up climbs despite being 14 years older and retired.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

Big George stopped doping in 2006, like everyone else. He said it under oath in his USADA affidavit. That means it's true, right?


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## Jackhammer (Sep 23, 2014)

deviousalex said:


> Even if he wasn't doing PEDs until a week before he still had the effects from being able to train at such a high level. They probably last years later.
> 
> Look at Levi Leipheimer on Strava. He's beating Peter Stetina up climbs despite being 14 years older and retired.



He's probably still doping.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

and he was beaten by
a doped to the gills Mapei
and a doped to the gills Domo Farm Frites

but he's a nice, likable guy
who ratted out the jerk wad


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

atpjunkie said:


> and he was beaten by
> a doped to the gills Mapei
> and a doped to the gills Domo Farm Frites
> 
> ...


And got a 6 month suspension---after he retired. 

Which allowed him to get cycling's equivalent of the participation trophy---most TdF starts.


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

George is a nice guy - gets excused for his sins. Lance is an aggressive jerk and gets crucified. Doper or not, it always pays to be nice. If you're nice like George, it's like you never doped.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

David Loving said:


> George is a nice guy - gets excused for his sins. Lance is an aggressive jerk and gets crucified. Doper or not, it always pays to be nice. If you're nice like George, it's like you never doped.


I love fairy tales. 
got any more?


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

Sarcasm does not travel well here, I guess.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

Remember Museeuw riding into the Roubaix velodrome solo and pointing to the knee he'd almost lost the year before? Does that accomplishment get diminished because he was doped as were most of the guys he defeated?


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

David Loving said:


> Sarcasm does not travel well here, I guess.


umm, sarcasm travels well, but there are always some people...


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

David Loving said:


> Sarcasm does not travel well here, I guess.


...and it travels faster when it's on PEDS.

If only Lance had been a nice guy, all this could have had a happy ending and cynics like me could have been laughed off doping forums.


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## road addict (Sep 23, 2005)

George wanted to ride clean but Lanced forced him to dope


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

road addict said:


> George wanted to ride clean but Lanced forced him to dope


Of course he did. He controlled and is therefore responsible for all that is corrupt in cycling. Nobody had a mind of their own. The Charles Manson of the Peloton.


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## BelgianHammer (Apr 10, 2012)

^^^lol, love4himies, but jeez, you're being really hard on poor 'road addict'. Let the guy hold onto whatever fantasies he has of the cycling' past, present and future.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

remember when Rebellin did the triple in the Ardennes? oh wait


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

As to the original question, I don't think that he rode any of the Classics that he was in contention for clean. The later ones he may have rode without actively doping, but the lingering effects of years of PED use likely skewed his results.

I wouldn't have wanted to be faced with the choices the riders of that generation were given. I would likely have made the same decision in their shoes to follow the dream of professional cycling. That some took it further is a "natural" progression of how these things play out in sports. There are those who are willing to take greater risks to achieve greater rewards (Riis, Ricco, Rasmussen...), and many of them slip up and get caught because of their willingness to take risks.

Riders are still doping, as the Astana positives proved, but it's much harder today than it once was to go undetected. I hope that trend continues. I hope, as the pro peloton claims, that clean riders can win. I hope that riders today truly aren't faced with the same choices their predecessors were given.

That said, I'm fairly cynical when I watch races these days. That's the residual damage of doping- hardly anybody believes in the myth anymore.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Alaska Mike said:


> As to the original question, I don't think that he rode any of the Classics that he was in contention for clean. The later ones he may have rode without actively doping, but the lingering effects of years of PED use likely skewed his results.
> 
> I wouldn't have wanted to be faced with the choices the riders of that generation were given. I would likely have made the same decision in their shoes to follow the dream of professional cycling. That some took it further is a "natural" progression of how these things play out in sports. There are those who are willing to take greater risks to achieve greater rewards (Riis, Ricco, Rasmussen...), and many of them slip up and get caught because of their willingness to take risks.
> 
> ...


I'm thinking it's much harder to dope. It will always be a cat and mouse game between dopers and the labs. Certain riders are very dominant these days and it's rare to catch a big fish these days.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

I agree with much here
but I'm not cynical. It doesn't diminish my enjoyment seeing a bunch of dopers battle it out
I feel the same about the NFL, MLB and most Euro Soccer leagues. If one just says 'they're all doped' one can move along much easier.
I don't think any top contenders are clean


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

I agree. I think the top riders are doped, too. That's just today's sports.


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## Horze (Mar 12, 2013)

Some of these guys in the pro peloton are damn decent compared to the rat-bag sh*t that you find as team-mate peers in cycling teams.

George, Lance, Tyler +.. trust me well mannered who knew how to maintain a unit.

Other than that it's impossible to know what someone does within their internal confines.. what a corny statement.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

Horze said:


> George, *Lance*, Tyler +.. trust me well mannered who knew how to maintain a unit.


That is the first time I have ever heard of Lance being described as such, in print or in interviews.

Maintaining a unit is likely why George was the only other American on the 2005 Tour team, because consistency counts. That last bit was sarcasm. I can only hope your statement was too.


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## Jackhammer (Sep 23, 2014)

atpjunkie said:


> I agree with much here
> but I'm not cynical. It doesn't diminish my enjoyment seeing a bunch of dopers battle it out
> I feel the same about the NFL, MLB and most Euro Soccer leagues. If one just says 'they're all doped' one can move along much easier.
> I don't think any top contenders are clean


You're not cynical? Is willfully oblivious a better description?


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## BacDoc (Aug 1, 2011)

Jackhammer said:


> You're not cynical? Is willfully oblivious a better description?


Think he's being realistic. With all pro athletes, performance is what counts so why wouldn't every pro be on the gear? Honesty? Fair play?

Why are they all on some type of performance enhancing drugs? Because it works!


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Isn't it a bit odd that Valverde has been doing just as well post doping as he did while on the sauce???? It's as if he didn't need to dope in the first place or now it's a level playing field.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

Jackhammer said:


> You're not cynical? Is willfully oblivious a better description?


no, nothing oblivious at all
a bunch of doped up guys from Team X play a bunch of doped up guys against Team Y 
in
Football
Baseball
Basketball
Hockey
Soccer
or
Cycling
Does knowing they're doped ruin my superbowl? Nope. Did it ruin a doped up Roger Clemens pitching against a doped up MArk McGuire? Nope. Does it ruin my Paris Roubaix? nope. If you just accept the fact that they are all hopped up you can move on quite easily


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## BelgianHammer (Apr 10, 2012)

*Society needs to stop this idiotic push to be the moral arbiters of all that is*

spade2you,

I'm not sure if your post was being deeply ironic, hope so. But in case it wasn't, you honestly, in your heart, think that most, if not all, of the peloton (or any major sport) still isn't doping? Honestly?? It is no secret what is going on today.....I'm assuming you do know it is impossible to not only monitor but also check for micro-dosing epo routines? And this micro-dosing is providing nearly 80-90% of the same benefit as when atheltes were dumping EPO heavily into their bloodstream without worry every few days/weeks, along with new blood infusions. This mirco-dosing is especially true with the new, undetectable masking substances that are showing up (_to wit: over the last two years, there have been many unknown substances found in multitudes of cyclists (and other) athletes tested blood, found by volume weight and by trace, and still, to this day, the labs do not know what these substances are because the body so morphed the chemical signature of the stuff that there is no way to know what it was in the first place...and if you think this is being made up, go & read the comments by Ashenden & others, people who have served at the the testing labs_). 

Cycling is one of the most brutal endurance sports there is, we all know that. There is no "clean" wonder rider, not when the UCI and organized events schedule inhuman brutal rides, and rides that are so spaced closely together (the Classics spring season is a pure example) that it is impossible for an athlete to properly recover. These organizing idiots want their money, at the expense of the athletes and the athletes health. It is a gawdam# farce that they aren't being held accountable too over what transpired on the past and what still is transpiring today. 

What makes this even more maddening is this: even if by some sheer grace of God all athletes in all endurance sports went clean with not one substance in their body, no coffee, tea, nothing, hell, hardly no food, do people understand that these guys would still be athletic monsters? That, with no drugs alone, they would crush any weekend pro 1/2 and/or sportive rider?? But amongst themselves, their small, select few, where they wage battle, and with the pressure to perform and the fight for monies by teams to have a place in a money-glorified pro organized cycling schedule, the hunt for an edge will always---I repeat always---be there & exist. 

People (especially those who are outside the sport) have to stop playing moral judges and hypocritical Gods to riders and just start enjoying the incredible battles these guys wage amongst themselves. Moral righteousness by anyone who is not a pro and who has never been a pro has no place on this planet, no place in any sport, and never will. This is not an apologists point of view, nor is it a pessimists; this is just reality. So just enjoy these battles these incredible athletes wage amongst themselves and let's hope society in general some day comes to its senses and stops trying to be the moral arbiters of all that is. Christ almighty, if we turned this same "_moral judgement_" towards all people in the general public, 99% of them would fail for one reason or the other.....as the number of addicts in the general human population, whether it is caffeine, drugs, alcohol, etc, etc, etc. dwarfs by the hundreds of millions and dwarfs in terms of pure poundage substance abused, any pro athlete's "supposed cheating" use.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

Now that's a cynic. You definitely skew towards the "90% of the peloton is doped" pack.

I tend to think the number is lower. I think that percentage can vary depending on which parts are riding which events, but I think there are clean riders placing well in races today. I'm just not willing to swear an oath that they are actually clean, because time and again there have been examples of those that weren't.


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## rufus (Feb 3, 2004)

spade2you said:


> Isn't it a bit odd that Valverde has been doing just as well post doping as he did while on the sauce???? It's as if he didn't need to dope in the first place or now it's a level playing field.


Or, they're all still doping.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

I'm hoping it's not 90%. Even if 20% is the number, I don't find it acceptable. I honestly don't know how bad it is. 

I find it a little odd that certain riders seem to be dominating (again). This forum seems to be a little more worried about Armstrong in a charity ride than Contador winning another grand tour or Valverde winning more classics.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

rufus said:


> Or, they're all still doping.


atp puts index finger to the tip of his nose.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

spade2you said:


> I'm hoping it's not 90%. Even if 20% is the number, I don't find it acceptable. I honestly don't know how bad it is.
> 
> I find it a little odd that certain riders seem to be dominating (again). This forum seems to be a little more worried about Armstrong in a charity ride than Contador winning another grand tour or Valverde winning more classics.


Now, now, Conti is a nice guy who unwittingly ate tainted meat provided by his team. :lol:


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

mpre53 said:


> Now, now, Conti is a nice guy who unwittingly ate tainted meat provided by his team. :lol:


yup, all the bad guys are gone. all better now


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## matabala (Aug 10, 2004)

Hell no...and the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Look at the way the Hincapie youngsters are winning stages and controlling a true Pro peloton at the TofC! Ahem...reminiscent of the Postal train anyone?


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

matabala said:


> Hell no...and the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Look at the way the Hincapie youngsters are winning stages and controlling a true Pro peloton at the TofC! Ahem...reminiscent of the Postal train anyone?


Stages = plural. They won one because Tinkoff completely screwed it up. They had the clear favorite for that stage and didn't keep the break on the right length leash and he got away. Mt Baldy will be the true test.


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## SRV (Dec 26, 2006)

I'm with ATP on this. As a fan, what do I care about level playing fields? It's more exciting to see Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire jacking homers left and right than some skinny version of Barry Bonds hitting doubles. Same with cycling.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

SRV said:


> I'm with ATP on this. As a fan, what do I care about level playing fields? It's more exciting to see Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire jacking homers left and right than some skinny version of Barry Bonds hitting doubles. Same with cycling.


I think your opinion might be a little different if you showed up to a P12 road race and had to race against juiced up guys while you were a cat 2.


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## SRV (Dec 26, 2006)

deviousalex said:


> I think your opinion might be a little different if you showed up to a P12 road race and had to race against juiced up guys while you were a cat 2.


No doubt about it.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

deviousalex said:


> I think your opinion might be a little different if you showed up to a P12 road race and had to race against juiced up guys while you were a cat 2.


^^^^^^^this.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

SRV said:


> I'm with ATP on this. As a fan, what do I care about level playing fields? It's more exciting to see Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire jacking homers left and right than some skinny version of Barry Bonds hitting doubles. Same with cycling.


I disagree.

A couple days ago some doper guy won the stage at the Giro. Long hard stage. He was kicked out/banned from the Giro last year for doping. He gets let back in and wins a stage in front of two guys I would much have rather seen win.

I was pretty disappointed and I find no joy in watching dopers win. I don't enjoy watching Astana "dominate" the field, it's just not what the game's about to me. I'm not ignorant to what goes on but I believe in lifetime bans and actual punishment for cheating. I'd much rather have a level playing field with real emotion and effort instead of just calculated criminal efforts.


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## BelgianHammer (Apr 10, 2012)

Is it unfair to say that all sports are a sort of modern-day gladiator warfare? For consumption by the masses?? If so, who are we to demand that those combatants adhere to certain rules? In my mind, no one except hypocrisy itself has any claim to this. Still, it begs the question: does it make it right? The more salient argument is "right" by whose judgement and morals?? 

When a guy like Ulissi comes back within a year, wins a stage of a major race, why do we feel that something has been violated? Especially knowing what we know about modern sports, why do we feel this? Still, I know I felt it watching Ulissi win. Almost couldn't help it. But, again, the question has to be asked (and it is not so simple to answer): why do we feel this?? 

The answer most possibly tells us more about our own shortcomings as a species than it does about those combatants on the battelfield that we take joy & pain in watching. As history's famous battlefield participants have said in the past: nobody remembers who lost the war, and the "why" of it is often rewritten by the winners and the bystanders. So despite what "we" think is 'right' and 'just' for any gladiator in any modern sport, the line between a "level playing field" and a "calculated criminal effort" becomes so blurred as to cast all peoples mores & values into a fog. 

This was true in the past, and will be forever true in the future. It's not the answer everyone will face up to, but it is who we are as humans.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

SRV said:


> I'm with ATP on this. As a fan, what do I care about level playing fields? It's more exciting to see Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire jacking homers left and right than some skinny version of Barry Bonds hitting doubles. Same with cycling.


Huh? The Tour being over after the first MTF is exciting? 

Dope = boring racing


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Steroid cases setting bogus home run records are exciting? Meaningless to me. I'd rather watch chess.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Fireform said:


> Steroid cases setting bogus home run records are exciting? Meaningless to me. I'd rather watch chess.


Deep Blue was doping too. Gary Kasparov found a bug in the software where he could create a trap and take pieces but this bug magically went away mid-match.



> After the loss, Kasparov said that he sometimes saw deep intelligence and creativity in the machine's moves, suggesting that during the second game, human chess players had intervened on behalf of the machine, which would be a violation of the rules. IBM denied that it cheated, saying the only human intervention occurred between games. The rules provided for the developers to modify the program between games, an opportunity they said they used to shore up weaknesses in the computer's play that were revealed during the course of the match. Kasparov requested printouts of the machine's log files but IBM refused, although the company later published the logs on the Internet.[16] Kasparov demanded a rematch, but IBM refused and dismantled Deep Blue.[17] Owing to an insufficient sample of games between Deep Blue and officially rated chess players, a chess rating for Deep Blue was not established.[citation needed]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Blue_(chess_computer)#Aftermath


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