# How are Focus bikes and why are they always on sale?



## fah35

I have been looking at the Focus Cayo or Focus Izalco due to their geometry fitting me. Whenever I go online I notice they always seem to be on sale like JensonUSA and Performance bikes. On the Focus website their MSRP is a lot higher. Other bike companies prices seem to be vey close to their MSRPs whereas Focus is not. Are these bikes on sale good deals or just average?


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## Mailmover

Never had the chance to look at the Focus. I am thinking that they are on Sale, due to low sale performance or they are expecting the next year's model and have to make room.


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## qatarbhoy

Focus make good bikes.


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## Kontact

We're going to start carrying them at the shop. They ride pretty nice, have a couple different geometries for the road line and have well thought out cable routing and the like. They are also made in Germany, which seems like a real plus in todays Asian driven market.

MSRPs are sometimes "retail" and sometimes a fiction designed to make the price more attractive.


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## Retro Grouch

Here's a video review of the Cayo:





<p><a href="http://vimeo.com/16157516">Focus Cayo Review</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user4612294">Move Films</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>


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## rgg01

Focus seem to have a good reputation in the UK, the Cayo 105 was an option for me and you're right it was on sale at Wiggle for months, I don't get it the bike is well reviewed and whilst it is a little conservatively styled it has nothing wrong with it at all as far as I can see. Wiggle is the same with Battaglin, they have great reviews and the frame and components are excellent but they are always at 30-40% off. Perhaps these brands aren't moving well?


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## Erion929

I've also read multiple good reviews (at least on the Izalco Team model) and think they look very nice, too. I think you can get some good deals out there because they just aren't real popular / known and dealers gotta move 'em. They definitely get you some identity separation from all the common bikes.

**


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## kbwh

Maybe they don't sell well because Katusha don't seem to be the coolest team to be associated with over there? Maybe they sell a lot in Germany?
I looked at the frames on a trade show in Mallorca this spring and they indeed seem fine.

(Bottechias are Italian made frames, btw. That Emme2 is a terrific ride, I read.)


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## Italianrider76

They're quite popular here in Australia.


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## smartyiak

From what I've seen of Focus, they are fine bikes.

They are always on sale b/c they are sold at Performance...and Performance, like Jos. A. Bank, has a sale everyday. I often wonder: who is the guy who walks into either store and pays full price for anything,

-Smarty


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## Maximus_XXIV

Kontact said:


> We're going to start carrying them at the shop. They ride pretty nice, have a couple different geometries for the road line and have well thought out cable routing and the like. They are also made in Germany, which seems like a real plus in todays Asian driven market.
> 
> MSRPs are sometimes "retail" and sometimes a fiction designed to make the price more attractive.


The video says designed in Germany and made in the far East. Not that I really care.


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## nOOky

One of the LBS's here carries them, the owner likes 'em. I also saw quite a few when I was in Germany, they were like Treks are to us here.


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## 88 rex

Kontact said:


> They are also made in Germany, which seems like a real plus in todays Asian driven market.


I believe Focus bike are also made in Asia. They may be painted in Germany, but welded in Asia.


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## roubaix_sj

I ride an Izalco 2010 model and couldn't be happier. Best bang for the buck in my viewpoint. But I do question their motives when I see their ads everywhere. I do believe they are made in China.


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## ultraman6970

Al lthe stuff is made in asia, even orbea frames are made in asia but since are finished (painted) in spain they get a nice sticker saying made in spain. 

Focus makes good stuff. Well performance and Jenson (i believe is the same company) market is not racers but fat guys with money that want to afford just shimano and cheap stuff here and there. Never quite understood why they tried to get into expensive bikes when thats not their business. Even worse, they tried to market it like special stuff but the people that goes to their stores dont know any better and to make the situation more than worse; nobody saw a simple focus bike in the stores. 

People that is more involved in the sport wont go to performance to buy unless necesary and looking for simple stuff that they sure have in their stores. Besides that the guy will go to other places online to buy like wiggle, ribble and competitive cyclist. 

IMHO focus f...ed up putting their bikes in performance instead of going with somebody else like CC for example. Performance screwed up too, non of their clients will buy a focus, why buy a focus when u have scRaptante as local brand. Pretty dumb idea, hope they are giving the frames away now, it could be a good deal to get one if i had the money. 

ps: for 4000 bucks I'm better getting a BMC  Ops, i have one already!. Now seriously, non performance client will spend 4000 bucks in a bike. Sincerely performance is taking a dump in the wrong bowl.


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## TWB8s

There's a couple of shops nearby that sell them. They look to be well spec'd but since I haven't ridden one I have no opinion. I don't know anyone who has bought one either.


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## stevesbike

I have a Focus Izalco Chrono, the tt bike designed by Andreas Walser. Best tt bike I've ever ridden - rides like a road bike. Could also double as a bread slicer with the trailing edges...


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## terry b

I rode all over China with a friend who had an Izalco. Excellent bike. Nice details and construction. You can't judge a frame by how sellers choose to price it. There is far more to pricing that quality.


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## Dajianshan

From what I have heard... they source their bikes from Asian ODMs and spend the bulk of their involvement on the marketing side. Not sure about the performance or quality.


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## ClancyO

smartyiak said:


> From what I've seen of Focus, they are fine bikes.
> 
> They are always on sale b/c they are sold at Performance...and Performance, like Jos. A. Bank, has a sale everyday. I often wonder: who is the guy who walks into either store and pays full price for anything,
> 
> -Smarty


^^ What he said


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## SlowJoeCrow

Focus seems to be more mail order friendly than some other bike brands. They also have some models that are only sold in the US through Performance. I just bought my son a Focus cyclocross bike from PB that is not listed on the English language Focus websites, but shows up in Spain. He got a serious CX frame with Shimano 105 for $900 (Mares AX2), and even though the wheels are heavy and the tires were useless, it still gets him racing for not much coin. Build quality and weld quality are very good and they even added little details like a nosed ferrule and weather boot on every shifter cable stop and Teflon coated brake cables.


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## davcruz

ultraman6970 said:


> Al lthe stuff is made in asia, even orbea frames are made in asia but since are finished (painted) in spain they get a nice sticker saying made in spain.
> 
> Focus makes good stuff. Well performance and Jenson (i believe is the same company) market is not racers but fat guys with money that want to afford just shimano and cheap stuff here and there. Never quite understood why they tried to get into expensive bikes when thats not their business. Even worse, they tried to market it like special stuff but the people that goes to their stores dont know any better and to make the situation more than worse; nobody saw a simple focus bike in the stores.
> 
> People that is more involved in the sport wont go to performance to buy unless necesary and looking for simple stuff that they sure have in their stores. Besides that the guy will go to other places online to buy like wiggle, ribble and competitive cyclist.
> 
> IMHO focus f...ed up putting their bikes in performance instead of going with somebody else like CC for example. Performance screwed up too, non of their clients will buy a focus, why buy a focus when u have scRaptante as local brand. Pretty dumb idea, hope they are giving the frames away now, it could be a good deal to get one if i had the money.
> 
> ps: for 4000 bucks I'm better getting a BMC  Ops, i have one already!. Now seriously, non performance client will spend 4000 bucks in a bike. Sincerely performance is taking a dump in the wrong bowl.


WOW, well stated...I never even realized that there are only two types of riders; fat guys and racers.

I wonder if your BMC is made next to the Focus in Asia.

At the Performance that I shop at regularly, I see lots of non-fat guys and it is staffed by local racers. I also shop at several LBS's and have seen some fat guys there shopping.


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## stevesbike

davcruz said:


> WOW, well stated...I never even realized that there are only two types of riders; fat guys and racers.
> 
> I wonder if your BMC is made next to the Focus in Asia.
> 
> At the Performance that I shop at regularly, I see lots of non-fat guys and it is staffed by local racers. I also shop at several LBS's and have seen some fat guys there shopping.


plus it's not true that Performance is their exclusive dealer. They have a dealer network across the US (e..,g pro peloton cyclery in Boulder, Excel sports online).


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## qatarbhoy

The Focus Cayo 105 also consistently gets excellent reviews from magazines and riders.


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## Wile_E_Coyote

My cousin's son races the Izalco team replica, which is a nice ride with Sram force and FSA stuff. I quite like it and it seems well put together. The kid works at a LBS that stocks them. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought they had a tie in with Diamond Back or similar (same parent company)?


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## ultraman6970

Well i have the bad habit of generalize but pretty much a guy buying a focus izalco will go for the frame only and will put the bike together at home. I'll generalize here... like 95% of the racing and ex racers community will put their bikes together at home.

Those guys wont go to a regular LBS because those shops don't work for their taste at all.

I'm one of those fat guys, but I'm an ex racer too so skinny 25ish 30ish y/o cat-5-4 guy or a well fitted triat that cant figure it out how the bike works is just something I just smile at  Just being sincere with you  cycling is pretty competitive but is full of stubborn believers too  And the cruel reality of the sport is this one.. if at 19 or 22 y/o you are not in cat-2 already is because you did not make it and you have to consider to get a normal life, go to the university, get married, have kids and buy an expensive bike to ride weekends and century rides.

Well I really don't care where the bike was built tho  Never cared that much specially because pretty much everything is manufactured in Asia  But i have a nice 5 years warranty no questions ask with the frame  Not even trek will do that, specially because are the kings to deny claims.

I understand I sounded mean but nah man... i'm cool. But what annoys me a lot is to see a brick store selling a product they don't have in the shops, the other thing is the prices...3000 or 5000 bucks is not just change for candies or the bus... sincerely is not a good deal IMO, being there are other better deals in the market right now. I would get one of their focus izalco frames but not the bike.





davcruz said:


> WOW, well stated...I never even realized that there are only two types of riders; fat guys and racers.
> 
> I wonder if your BMC is made next to the Focus in Asia.
> 
> At the Performance that I shop at regularly, I see lots of non-fat guys and it is staffed by local racers. I also shop at several LBS's and have seen some fat guys there shopping.


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## qatarbhoy

ultraman6970 said:


> Well i have the bad habit of generalize but pretty much a guy buying a focus izalco will go for the frame only and will put the bike together at home. I'll generalize here... like 95% of the racing and ex racers community will put their bikes together at home.
> 
> Those guys wont go to a regular LBS because those shops don't work for their taste at all.
> 
> I'm one of those fat guys, but I'm an ex racer too so skinny 25ish 30ish y/o cat-5-4 guy or a well fitted triat that cant figure it out how the bike works is just something I just smile at  Just being sincere with you  cycling is pretty competitive but is full of stubborn believers too  And the cruel reality of the sport is this one.. if at 19 or 22 y/o you are not in cat-2 already is because you did not make it and you have to consider to get a normal life, go to the university, get married, have kids and buy an expensive bike to ride weekends and century rides.
> 
> Well I really don't care where the bike was built tho  Never cared that much specially because pretty much everything is manufactured in Asia  But i have a nice 5 years warranty no questions ask with the frame  Not even trek will do that, specially because are the kings to deny claims.
> 
> I understand I sounded mean but nah man... i'm cool. But what annoys me a lot is to see a brick store selling a product they don't have in the shops, the other thing is the prices...3000 or 5000 bucks is not just change for candies or the bus... sincerely is not a good deal IMO, being there are other better deals in the market right now. I would get one of their focus izalco frames but not the bike.


Sorry mate  I get your point :thumbsup: but to be honest :blush2: I thought your post needed more smileys 

Also :idea: Trek just warrantied my old 2.1 after it got a crack :cryin: no questions asked  a few photos and the receipt from my LBS :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: and I am getting a nice 2.3 from 2011  so I am smiling    

I have also just bought a BMC of course


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## ultraman6970

Everybody will get a BMC soon with the prices CC has  Funny when I got my 1st BMC u barely see them, the same with a ridley I got in europe. Even people was reading ritchey instead of ridley


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## qatarbhoy

ultraman6970 said:


> Everybody will get a BMC soon with the prices CC has


Sssshhh! It's supposed to be a secret. :thumbsup:


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## PlatyPius

Any bike shop that picks up Focus is moronic. Focus has a distribution deal with Performance. Performance doesn't charge anything close to MSRP, so bike shops wouldn't be able to either. Ergo, bike shops can't really afford to carry Focus, and why spend time and effort building a brand's name/image when you can't make any money on it?

The bikes are fine, though. Made in Asia like many of the other brands. For my shop, if I pick up a brand from a foreign country, it had better be MADE in that country. That's why I carry Lynskey, TIME and Cyfac. That's why I decided to not carry Wilier after I had picked them up. That's why I only carry certain models of De Rosa. I don't like brands that leverage their "home country" to sell bikes that are actually made elsewhere.

Performance is busy reducing the options available to consumers and shops. Santini lost their US distributor because they (Santini) were selling directly to Performance. Nashbar (aka: Performance) was selling Diadora shoes for wholesale, so now I can't get Diadora shoes any longer, as the distributor dropped them, too. On the plus side, I'm picking up Vittoria shoes which seem much, much cooler than Diadora anyway. Actually made in Italy, and full custom is available.

Anyway, Focus is always on sale because that's Performance's business model. Ultimately, it will cheapen the brand, as they will never be able to be sold for MSRP in the US now. For the consumer, though, it's okay as long as you don't mind dealing with a mass merchant that usually has crappy mechanics.


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## smartyiak

PlatyPius said:


> Any bike shop that picks up Focus is moronic. Focus has a distribution deal with Performance. Performance doesn't charge anything close to MSRP, so bike shops wouldn't be able to either. Ergo, bike shops can't really afford to carry Focus, and why spend time and effort building a brand's name/image when you can't make any money on it?


Quoted for truth.

I wonder this about Fuji as well. There are several bike shops in my area that carry Fuji. There is a Performance appx 15min from my house. Why would I ever buy the Fuji the LBS has when I can save hundreds going to Performance...why would a bike shop carry a brand that has someone else selling it for hundreds less within a few miles. 

Fuji and Focus both make good bikes (nearest I can tell), but I don't understand why an LBS would carry either brand if there's a Performance shop w/i 50miles.

-Smarty


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## PlatyPius

smartyiak said:


> Quoted for truth.
> 
> I wonder this about Fuji as well. There are several bike shops in my area that carry Fuji. There is a Performance appx 15min from my house. Why would I ever buy the Fuji the LBS has when I can save hundreds going to Performance...why would a bike shop carry a brand that has someone else selling it for hundreds less within a few miles.
> 
> Fuji and Focus both make good bikes (nearest I can tell), but I don't understand why an LBS would carry either brand if there's a Performance shop w/i 50miles.
> 
> -Smarty


Plus most of BD's bikes are Fujis.

I wouldn't touch Fuji with a 39.5 foot pole.


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## dwysyd

I can't really say that I know much about them. I'm just posting to try to get my 5 posts in so that I can start a "New Post".


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## ultraman6970

For the record, jenson and performance are two different entities. Just correcting something I was not sure.

Thanks.


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## Bacana

dwysyd said:


> I can't really say that I know much about them. I'm just posting to try to get my 5 posts in so that I can start a "New Post".


Can you at least try to find something relevant to say when you make your five posts? Post minimums are in place to reduce the effect of spammers, but they often result in excessive 'fluff' posts.

Just my opinion. I'm not a moderator or anything, just a member.


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## terrapin4

i picked up a team edition jelly belly cayo off of ebay a while back, and it's by far the best descending bike i've ever been on, which imo is the ultimate test of a bike's ride quality. smooth and stable, but quick enough to dive in and out of chicanes and hairpins.

i'll grant that my bike testing experience is fairly limited, but it doesn't change the fact that i rarely ever feel the need to reach for my brake levers.


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## Richard

I'm with Platy here. A small local shop close to ours opened not quite two years ago. He went with Focus and Cannondale. Within a year he got out of his dealer agreement with Focus as they weren't "protecting" the brand. Stuff was popping up on the intertubes (can we say Jensen) and Performance was already discounting stuff. At first he just stopped ordering bikes but ultimately he returned all unsold product back to Focus.

Focus made a "business" decision to immediately "penetrate" the American market the easy way - Performances 100+ stores - rather than go the IBD route (what you guys call LBS's).

Focus is fast becoming a Performance/internet only brand. Ditto for Fuji. Any independent dealer that picks up either of these lines should have his or her head examined

P.S. This is not a knock on Focus or Fuji bikes. Just their business practices. I ride with several guys/girls who have Focus and Fuji rides and like them fine.


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## stevesbike

PlatyPius said:


> Any bike shop that picks up Focus is moronic. Focus has a distribution deal with Performance. Performance doesn't charge anything close to MSRP, so bike shops wouldn't be able to either. Ergo, bike shops can't really afford to carry Focus, and why spend time and effort building a brand's name/image when you can't make any money on it?
> 
> The bikes are fine, though. Made in Asia like many of the other brands. For my shop, if I pick up a brand from a foreign country, it had better be MADE in that country. That's why I carry Lynskey, TIME and Cyfac. That's why I decided to not carry Wilier after I had picked them up. That's why I only carry certain models of De Rosa. I don't like brands that leverage their "home country" to sell bikes that are actually made elsewhere.
> 
> Performance is busy reducing the options available to consumers and shops. Santini lost their US distributor because they (Santini) were selling directly to Performance. Nashbar (aka: Performance) was selling Diadora shoes for wholesale, so now I can't get Diadora shoes any longer, as the distributor dropped them, too. On the plus side, I'm picking up Vittoria shoes which seem much, much cooler than Diadora anyway. Actually made in Italy, and full custom is available.
> 
> Anyway, Focus is always on sale because that's Performance's business model. Ultimately, it will cheapen the brand, as they will never be able to be sold for MSRP in the US now. For the consumer, though, it's okay as long as you don't mind dealing with a mass merchant that usually has crappy mechanics.


I find this funny - the last thing I would want is an Italian-made CF frame. Italian manufacturing isn't exactly known for it's rigorous precision. Back in the day when steel frames from Italy were the thing to have nearly every one that came through a shop I rode for had to spend the night on the alignment table it was so misaligned.


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## Bacana

I find the brand appealing, at least for now. I've read pretty much only good about their bikes, although I recall reading a comment on Bike Radar saying that in Germany, they were 'department store' bikes.

But I'd be happy to give one a spin, as long as the components were what I was looking for.



stevesbike said:


> I find this funny - the last thing I would want is an Italian-made CF frame. Italian manufacturing isn't exactly known for it's rigorous precision. Back in the day when steel frames from Italy were the thing to have nearly every one that came through a shop I rode for had to spend the night on the alignment table it was so misaligned.


Isn't it hard to get a metal frame perfectly aligned right off the bat? I remember talking to a mechanic who said that every single frame they've ever put on an alignment table (save one or two) was at least slightly out of alignment. I've also read similar information elsewhere.

But I'll grant that my comment is hearsay and may not be worth much. I'm sure others here will know better.


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## PlatyPius

stevesbike said:


> I find this funny - the last thing I would want is an Italian-made CF frame. Italian manufacturing isn't exactly known for it's rigorous precision. Back in the day when steel frames from Italy were the thing to have nearly every one that came through a shop I rode for had to spend the night on the alignment table it was so misaligned.


I don't carry any Italian CF bikes. I have French CF and Italian steel and aluminum. French, Italian, and American for Ti. Plus, of course, the usual Asian CF (Scott, Raleigh, and Jamis).

Although, I AM considering picking up Basso...


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## qatarbhoy

PlatyPius said:


> Although, I AM considering picking up Basso...


Well, buy him flowers first, Platy.


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## terbennett

stevesbike said:


> I find this funny - the last thing I would want is an Italian-made CF frame. Italian manufacturing isn't exactly known for it's rigorous precision. Back in the day when steel frames from Italy were the thing to have nearly every one that came through a shop I rode for had to spend the night on the alignment table it was so misaligned.


+1... I remember we used to race Olmos and De Rosas when I started racing because the shop I raced out of sold them. There were always alignment issues when they came in. The shop later switched to Paramoount and the issues were nonexistent. One year on the steel Paramounts and we switched to the aluminum PDG Paramounts. Not bad bikes but wee would get dissed by other riders. they would call our bikes "disposable bikes."


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## terbennett

I think this is funny. Sounds more like people are pissed that a bike brand that Pro Tour riders are riding is being sold at Performance. Performance was chosen because there are more networks to distribute the bikes. Say what you will but Performance is successful for a reason. I'm pretty sure that if any mom and pop shop had the same ambitions they would've grown that big too. Protecting the brand doesn't even really help the small shops. Most are barely holding on because of their own business practices. Good customer service can be achieved in a larger shop. In my area, we have a shop called Incycle. They are pretty good and they have multiple locations. Hurting, they are not. They carry mainly Cannondale Specialized and Trek, but they do carry some high end framesets like Pinarello Dogmas and the Prince model. Richard, I remember seeing some of the same Windsor and Motobecane models sold by Bikes Direct alongside Treks in your shop. It's like Specialized's motto used to be: "Innovate or Die." This should be practice by dealers as well if they don't want to struggle.


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## Erion929

stevesbike said:


> I find this funny - the last thing I would want is an Italian-made CF frame. Italian manufacturing isn't exactly known for it's rigorous precision. Back in the day when steel frames from Italy were the thing to have nearly every one that came through a shop I rode for had to spend the night on the alignment table it was so misaligned.



+2 ....considering recent experience with a Ducati motorcycle's Terminogni exhaust. A relatively poor product workmanship for such a high-end motorcycle's exhaust system. Probably the crappiest welds I've ever seen...and no attempt to hide it. Japanese exhaust workmanship is 3x as good, at 2/3 the cost.

That said, I just got a Wilier Cento Uno SL....and am happy that the CF frame is made in Asia, lol 


As far as Focus and Performance Bikes, I had never thought of that price degradation issue vs. small LBS. But at one time I was considering an Izalco Team and indeed I was amazed at the price I could get it for from Performance. Depends on which side of the fence you're on, but I'd say it's a good deal for the consumer though.

**


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## terbennett

I think this is funny. Sounds more like people are pissed that a bike brand that Pro Tour riders are riding is being sold at Performance. Performance was chosen because there are more networks to distribute the bikes. Say what you will but Performance is successful for a reason. I'm pretty sure that if any mom and pop shop had the same ambitions they would've grown that big too. Protecting the brand doesn't even really help the small shops. Most are barely holding on because of their own business practices. Good customer service can be achieved in a larger shop. In my area, we have a shop called Incycle. They are pretty good and they have multiple locations. Hurting, they are not. They carry mainly Cannondale Specialized and Trek, but they do carry some high end framesets like Pinarello Dogmas and the Prince model. Richard, I remember seeing some of the same Windsor and Motobecane models sold by Bikes Direct alongside Treks in your shop. Just judging by your shops business practices, I know that those BD bikes were high quality. The owner would not allow anything less. It's like Specialized's motto used to be: "Innovate or Die." This should be practice by dealers as well if they don't want to struggle.


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## Ride-Fly

stevesbike said:


> I find this funny - the last thing I would want is an Italian-made CF frame. Italian manufacturing isn't exactly known for it's rigorous precision. Back in the day when steel frames from Italy were the thing to have nearly every one that came through a shop I rode for had to spend the night on the alignment table it was so misaligned.


To each his own, I guess. When it comes to carbon, I only want Italian-made. Okay, maybe a little French too- Time, Look, Cyfac. Maybe someday, when I want to race, I'll pick up a disposable Taiwanese carbon bike like a cannondale or giant.


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## scirocco

qatarbhoy said:


> The Focus Cayo 105 also consistently gets excellent reviews from magazines and riders.


+1. The Focus Cayo got Bike of the Year from Cycling Plus magazine a year or so ago.


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## stevesbike

Ride-Fly said:


> To each his own, I guess. When it comes to carbon, I only want Italian-made. Okay, maybe a little French too- Time, Look, Cyfac. Maybe someday, when I want to race, I'll pick up a disposable Taiwanese carbon bike like a cannondale or giant.


I'm currently riding an Italian frame made by Dedacciai, who know a thing or two about frame materials, tubing, and technology. Thankfully, they manufacturer their frames in Asia...


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## terrapin4

terbennett said:


> I think this is funny. Sounds more like people are pissed that a bike brand that Pro Tour riders are riding is being sold at Performance. Performance was chosen because there are more networks to distribute the bikes. Say what you will but Performance is successful for a reason. I'm pretty sure that if any mom and pop shop had the same ambitions they would've grown that big too. Protecting the brand doesn't even really help the small shops. Most are barely holding on because of their own business practices. Good customer service can be achieved in a larger shop. In my area, we have a shop called Incycle. They are pretty good and they have multiple locations. Hurting, they are not. They carry mainly Cannondale Specialized and Trek, but they do carry some high end framesets like Pinarello Dogmas and the Prince model. Richard, I remember seeing some of the same Windsor and Motobecane models sold by Bikes Direct alongside Treks in your shop. Just judging by your shops business practices, I know that those BD bikes were high quality. The owner would not allow anything less. It's like Specialized's motto used to be: "Innovate or Die." This should be practice by dealers as well if they don't want to struggle.


Yep, and Incycle, while technically independent, has more or less flooded the roads east of Los Angeles with cannondales and spesh's (i'm 99% sure they don't sell trek). that may or may not be brand degradation, i don't know. all i can say for certain is that a tiny, snobby voice in my head keeps dissuading me from purchasing one (except a super6 evo...still want).


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## fivekabob

Two of our top climbers and non fat guys in our club both got their latest bikes at Performance. They are both Scattantes. On the other hand I'm sorta overweight, a crappy climber and just bought my new Trek Madone at a small LBS....




davcruz said:


> WOW, well stated...I never even realized that there are only two types of riders; fat guys and racers.
> 
> I wonder if your BMC is made next to the Focus in Asia.
> 
> At the Performance that I shop at regularly, I see lots of non-fat guys and it is staffed by local racers. I also shop at several LBS's and have seen some fat guys there shopping.


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## GaRandonee

*get a bb30*

i love my cayo. it is a 2010 & 1/2. Kinda'like a 1965 & 1/2 Mustang. They went to the bb30 mid year. It is a great base upon which to build!


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## 06cvpi

I don't think Focus bikes are really made in Germany like the company claims. Just like someone here mentioned, I'm sure they received the frame unfinished and unassembled then the company paints and install the components on the bike.

I'm 100% sure Jensen USA is not related to Performance Bikes (same company as Bike Nashbar) and also anyone here noticed Focus bikes (at least their full suspension) look a lot like those from Diamond Back Bicycles (which is now own by Raleigh Bicycle Company.)

Now let's compare the two model from Focus and Diamond Back. See any similarities?


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## ultraman6970

hahaha


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## qatarbhoy

> _I don't think Focus bikes are really made in Germany like the company claims. Just like someone here mentioned, I'm sure they received the frame unfinished and unassembled then the company paints and install the components on the bike.
> _


That's enough legally to say "Made in Germany" IIRC - the same goes for the assembly of higher-end Bianchis, BMCs etc when the frames are made in the Far East.

The Focus/DB full-sus look pretty decent to me! I'll take the Focus with what appears to be XTR and a Crank Bros seatpost.


----------



## Ride-Fly

stevesbike said:


> I'm currently riding an Italian frame made by Dedacciai, who know a thing or two about frame materials, tubing, and technology. Thankfully, they manufacturer their frames in Asia...


purely profit driven. 

when (allesandro???- forgot his name) pinarello gave their reason for manufacturing their carbon frames overseas as "we can't match their technology" (i'm paraphrasing), he should have added "without biting big chunks into our profit margin". 

italians, americans, french, spanish, canadiens- can all make carbon frames just as equal in quality and advancements as the chinese or taiwanese. it's just gonna cost a lot more to make so their margin shrinks because most mfrs can't routinely sell $8,000 - $10,000 framesets. 

back to your original point- that you wouldn't buy an italian carbon frame. as i said, to each his own. i personally would never trade my colnago extreme c or c40, or my original fondriest tf1 top carbon (all manufactured in italy) for a giant tcr advanced, or specialized tarmac s-works, or pinarello dogma or cannondale evo. i would love to have any one of these (especially the giant or evo) but i would not take any of those over my current 3. 

you ride a bianchi?


----------



## stevesbike

Ride-Fly said:


> purely profit driven.
> 
> when (allesandro???- forgot his name) pinarello gave their reason for manufacturing their carbon frames overseas as "we can't match their technology" (i'm paraphrasing), he should have added "without biting big chunks into our profit margin".
> 
> italians, americans, french, spanish, canadiens- can all make carbon frames just as equal in quality and advancements as the chinese or taiwanese. it's just gonna cost a lot more to make so their margin shrinks because most mfrs can't routinely sell $8,000 - $10,000 framesets.
> 
> back to your original point- that you wouldn't buy an italian carbon frame. as i said, to each his own. i personally would never trade my colnago extreme c or c40, or my original fondriest tf1 top carbon (all manufactured in italy) for a giant tcr advanced, or specialized tarmac s-works, or pinarello dogma or cannondale evo. i would love to have any one of these (especially the giant or evo) but i would not take any of those over my current 3.
> 
> you ride a bianchi?


Colnago is a good example of outdated bike design/manufacturing. The c59 is a bloated, lugged, overvalued frameset. The Flight is a mediocre, dated time trial frame. Even Serotta has abandoned lugs on his top end model. There is no reason besides building vanity custom frames for lugs on a carbon frame. You may not want a Cannondale Evo but it beats the Colnago c59 on every functional measure by huge amounts, including being stiffer at about 2/3 the weight.


----------



## Ride-Fly

stevesbike said:


> Colnago is a good example of outdated bike design/manufacturing. The c59 is a bloated, lugged, overvalued frameset. The Flight is a mediocre, dated time trial frame. Even Serotta has abandoned lugs on his top end model. There is no reason besides building vanity custom frames for lugs on a carbon frame. You may not want a Cannondale Evo but it beats the Colnago c59 on every functional measure by huge amounts, including being stiffer at about 2/3 the weight.


where did i say i didn't want a c-dale evo? i said i wouldn't take it over my current 3 carbon bikes- 2 of which are lugged and 1 which is a hand-laid monocooque. do you want to convince me that i should? that my bikes are inferior? there is more to bikes and frames than the measurables. 

the c59 is what it is. being manufactured it italy, it is still the same price range as the pinarello dogma and prince, the bianchi oltre, the willier zero7 and cento uno racing, and a few others that are made in asia. i can make the assumption that you would also consider these "overvalued"' as well? it's funny how colnago can still make a frame like the c59 and epq that is absolutely on par with these other bikes i mentioned, although maybe using "outdated" techniques in your words. i'd rather use the term "tried and true". there is nothing wrong with lugged construction. it works. with the exception of the zero7, all of these are near the same weight of the c59 too. as for the evo and how great it is- according to cannondale's marketing team, beats every other frame out there by a huge margin. hey, i can appreciate a 790 gm frame as much as the next weight weenie and i would love one but the first time i drop it against the railing is the last time i'd want to ride it. therefore, it is not something i would spend my own money. history has shown not too much success with uber-light frames. guru photon? ruegamers? ghisallos? try re-selling one of those nowadays. 

the flight is also what it is. the flight is a monocoque, made in asia frame but still, according to you, mediocre. I have no experience with them. colnago obviously doesn't put much emphasis in time trial and triathlon bikes otherwise, they would have a manufacturer in china make them a better bike. 

have you ever ridden an epq or c59? or an older eps, ep, ec, c50, c40? what is your basis for you dislike for lugged frames? purely lab test numbers or your own anecdotal experience? anecdotally, i know guys who prefer lugs over monocoque from a purely ride quality perspective.


----------



## terbennett

terrapin4 said:


> Yep, and Incycle, while technically independent, has more or less flooded the roads east of Los Angeles with cannondales and spesh's (i'm 99% sure they don't sell trek). that may or may not be brand degradation, i don't know. all i can say for certain is that a tiny, snobby voice in my head keeps dissuading me from purchasing one (except a super6 evo...still want).


Actually, you need to research before responding because you are 100% incorrect. As of yesterday, Incycle shops are still selling Trek (as they have been for years) and it's not just Incycle that sells Specialized. Try Rock N' Road Cyclery- a Specialized Concept store that is east of LA as well. They have several locations and I'm sure you've seen Sho-Air cycling jerseys on many Spesh riders. That would be Rock N' Road


----------



## terrapin4

terbennett said:


> Actually, you need to research before responding because you are 100% incorrect. As of yesterday, Incycle shops are still selling Trek (as they have been for years) and it's not just Incycle that sells Specialized. Try Rock N' Road Cyclery- a Specialized Concept store that is east of LA as well. They have several locations and I'm sure you've seen Sho-Air cycling jerseys on many Spesh riders. That would be Rock N' Road


Incycle's website doesn't mention trek or bontrager anywhere. I also peruse the Chino and San Dimas shops on a fairly regular basis, and haven't seen a Trek in one...ever. I also purchased my first road bike at the Pasadena location after test-riding every 54 and 56 road frame they had...not one of those was a trek. It's possible that they do carry trek, and that i've just missed the rows of madones every time i've gone in, but trek often forces its dealers to not carry competing brands at specific price points.

More to the point, however, is that the incycle business model is indeed a successful one, as their aggressive promotion and branding through their sponsorships and events, as well as excellent customer service (for LBS standards) has obviously helped their bottom line and put a lot of cdales and spesh's on the road. They also happen to be the only LBS I've ever been in with pet cats, which I really think helps to set them apart from the performance experience.


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## 06cvpi

The gray cat that usually found sleeping on the counter by the cash register freaked me out at times thinking it was a stuff animal. I agree, I frequent the Chino store a lot and don't recall seeing and Trek brands inside. They do carry a lot of C-dale's and Specialized a quite a few top brand carbon frames like Pinny. 
I remember back then when it was Mt.60 Bikes they carried Treks and Pro-Flex. 

Can it safe to assume about 95% of all carbon bikes are produced in East Asia? 

I'm trying to remember there was a brand that sold beautiful polished/chrome lugged carbon frames.


----------



## isaacl

I am a bit annoyed that they advertise it is Made in Germany, but it is not. Aside from that, it's not a big deal. (Sorry, those of you thumbing your nose at those "Asian" manufacturers, you wouldn't want your bike made anywhere else. They are carbon fibre masters. They have made more carbon fibre of any sort than any other place in the world. They have more and better expertise at mass manufacturing this than anyone else. If the quality is crappy, it's only because a brand asked for it and is cutting costs).

Back to the Focus, yes, it was also on sale at my LBS, and the price was competitive, maybe better than Cervelo, Pinarello, etc.
For my money, I would've bought the Cayo. It was a fine, no-nonsense bike that (as pointed out in another posters link to video review) is "race-ready", not for the touristy-gran-fondo crowd. It's full of features that makes it easy to service and maintain, no gimmicks. The ride is fantastic, no fatal flaws, exceedingly predictable.

I, of course, don't know about reliability, but from what I tried, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the Focus Cayo. (No, I didn't get one, I opted for a semi-custom steel frame made in Canada. Really made in Canada. It rode just as well as the Focus).


----------



## Lazyrider

Well, I have a Focus Cayo that I picked up a Jenson last year for a steal. Carbon Sram Crank with full Ultegra 6700 for $1800. 

Same Focus Cayo frame was ridden in Tour De France this year amongst all other major races that Katusha participated in. And they were kicking A$$ on them. Good enough for a major professional Tour, more than enough for any knucklehead round here. And no, the frame in this picture in not the Izalco, it is the Cayo which some of the Katusha riders preferred as it is stiffer.


----------



## Lazyrider

Here is my Focus Cayo that I stole from Jenson last year for $1800. I sold the Mavic Aksium wheels on Ebay for $200, the Prologo saddle for $50 and heavy seatpost $20 and put on my Easton Slx and Aspide saddle and carbon seatpost. Amazing value and literally a Tour level frame.

The sales on Focus aren't as good this year though but if you can get a Cayo with full Ultegra 6700 for under $2500, it is a steal. Comparable bikes can run almost $4k from Pinarello, Colnago etc.


----------



## curt.w

There are a few shops near me that carry Focus, they all seem to be lukewarm on them. Many of them are like "we may not carry them next year." I've got to think this has to be in part due to their supposed distro deal with Performance.

That said, the Performance web site, as of this morning, only has two Focus bikes listed (Culebro 1.0; Izalco Team Replica).


----------



## Richard

terbennett said:


> Richard, I remember seeing some of the same Windsor and Motobecane models sold by Bikes Direct alongside Treks in your shop. It's like Specialized's motto used to be: "Innovate or Die." This should be practice by dealers as well if they don't want to struggle.


We still have some "Motobecanes" that are over 7 years old (the last time we sourced anything from Mike Spratt/Bikes Direct.) The exception was that Windsor that we got for a great price that allowed us to sell an alu/carbon frame with full 10s Ultegra for a grand. We did that just to stick it to Performance two buildings over.

It's tough being an IBD these days, but we'll never see Trek on the internet (at least legally) and by the way - to the Trek "naysayers" - they've never told us what we could or could not carry in our shop.

The difference now is that if you want to open a new shop carrying Trek, you better be prepared to go "Concept Store." It's becoming rare to see any shop carrying more than one of the "Big Four" - Trek, Specialized, Giant, or Cannondale.


----------



## PlatyPius

Richard said:


> It's tough being an IBD these days, but we'll never see Trek on the internet (at least legally) and by the way - to the Trek "naysayers" - they've never told us what we could or could not carry in our shop.


You should re-word that. Trek will be available on the internet very soon. It'll be a Trek/Dealer program though where the dealer still makes money and Trek stocks and ships the bike.

Bicycle Retailer and Industry News



> Trek, with the help of SmartEtailing, is the first to venture into this type of cooperation, whereby retailers’ websites can now feature a limitless inventory—the supplier’s—and not just their own. Consumers can choose whether to pick up Trek products at their local IBD or have them shipped to their home or office, with no indication on the packaging that it was shipped from Trek and not the IBD.
> 
> “Everything points to consumers greatly preferring to buy from multi-channel retailers,” Brenner said of research done on the subject. “They want the convenience of online, but they want the comfort and added benefits of having that same retailer in their community where they could walk into the store.” The problem, Brenner said, is that IBDs’ websites haven’t had the selection, which sometimes steers consumers to a non-IBD online option.
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> Even as successful as Trek is, president John Burke—when making his keynote speech at this year’s Trek World—recognized the threat online sellers present to suppliers and brick-and-mortar stores. “Great companies play offense,” said Burke, alluding to the company’s new online strategy.
> 
> However, just because sales are made online doesn’t mean retailers will get to stray from MSRP, Burke said. That’s important to note, said Brenner, because this new strategy can’t succeed without certain pricing guidelines.
> 
> “If a supplier’s online sales policy is not coupled with a minimum advertised pricing policy—and it’s a race to the bottom in price—I wouldn’t be doing business with that supplier,” Brenner said. “Specialty retailers need supplier partners that allow them to provide service and convenience to consumers both in-store and online, but with a gross profit margin that supports the high operational costs of a brick-and-mortar business.”





Richard said:


> The difference now is that if you want to open a new shop carrying Trek, you better be prepared to go "Concept Store." It's becoming rare to see any shop carrying more than one of the "Big Four" - Trek, Specialized, Giant, or Cannondale.


And as a "new store", this applies to me; hence my ranting in various threads about Trek's demands, and why I'll never carry Trek (or Specialized). If a shop has a long-standing relationship with Trek, then good for them. If you're a new store though, you're better off to look elsewhere - unless you like being no more than a franchise.


----------



## Richard

PlatyPius said:


> You should re-word that. Trek will be available on the internet very soon. It'll be a Trek/Dealer program though where the dealer still makes money and Trek stocks and ships the bike.


I think BRAIN got that a little wrong. It's parts and accessories ONLY that will be available through a Trek/Internet program only. At least that's how Trek explained it to us.


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## Madridmikey

Here's my offering, a 2011 Cayo with the wheels changed. I got a set of Soul S3s and they're great. Love the bike and it was very well equipped compared with the competition.


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## Mud

I own a Cayo Expert, and I think it's a fantastic bike. I didn't buy mine at Performance or Jenson, but I understand why they are being pushed so heavily now through those outlets. Focus is an established and popular brand in Europe. To try and break into the U.S. market at this late stage of the game is tough for any (relatively) new bike brand, especially with the ridiculous inventory requirements that Trek/Specialized/Giant place on bike retailers - not much floor space left for more than one "other" brand. So, one way to get the bikes on the road quickly in the U.S. is to get them into the big e-tailers. Just a smart business move. And really, to the folks who wouldn't be caught dead on a bicycle brand sold primarily through the big on-line stores, I guess that's your issue you need to deal with.  Of course, if Performance could just get rid of the name "Scattante"... there's so many cooler Italian sounding names that they could have chosen for their road bike brand!

To the poster who pointed out the similarity in the Focus and Diamondback full-suspension bikes... both brands are now owned by Derby cycles, who also owns Raleigh. It wouldn't surprise me if Focus (or any of the other brands under the Derby umbrella) designs the bikes, and then relabels them and sells them with different parts specs.

But, to the OP... From my experience, Focus bikes are incredibly well made, well specced, and are real head-turners.


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## 06cvpi

I think Derby Cycles got bought out by a private investor and most of their assests (sp) got dissolved with many of well known brands being sold off like Brooks and Sturmy-Archer. So I think its own by Raleigh Cycles now.

Back on topic, I actually test rode a Focus and Diamond Back awhile back. Both have good characteristics that are similar to my Turner and Giant Trance. I actually like the look of both designs and performance. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one. Honestly I don't care where I purchase my bike from as long its cheap whether locally or via the net. I frequent Performance and Jensen all the time. But, yes the name brand Scannte sounds more like a Mexican salsa than Italian.


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## Lazyrider

I am not sure why it matters where a Focus is bought as it somehow wouldn't correlate with being a worthy bike. Here is some more proof of what level frame the Focus Cayo is (2011 Vuelta Espana)
If you find one on sale at a JensonUSA or Performance, you should do what I did and buy one. I needed another bike like a hole in my head, but for $1800, I got a frame worthy of all the Grand Tours with the new Ultegra 6700. Like I said in my previous post, I sold off the Mavic Aksium wheels for $200, the Prologo Saddle and the handle bars and seat post for another $100. If the Cayo is good enough for these guys, no one here should care where they are sold. 


































































Mud said:


> I own a Cayo Expert, and I think it's a fantastic bike. I didn't buy mine at Performance or Jenson, but I understand why they are being pushed so heavily now through those outlets. Focus is an established and popular brand in Europe. To try and break into the U.S. market at this late stage of the game is tough for any (relatively) new bike brand, especially with the ridiculous inventory requirements that Trek/Specialized/Giant place on bike retailers - not much floor space left for more than one "other" brand. So, one way to get the bikes on the road quickly in the U.S. is to get them into the big e-tailers. Just a smart business move. And really, to the folks who wouldn't be caught dead on a bicycle brand sold primarily through the big on-line stores, I guess that's your issue you need to deal with.  Of course, if Performance could just get rid of the name "Scattante"... there's so many cooler Italian sounding names that they could have chosen for their road bike brand!
> 
> To the poster who pointed out the similarity in the Focus and Diamondback full-suspension bikes... both brands are now owned by Derby cycles, who also owns Raleigh. It wouldn't surprise me if Focus (or any of the other brands under the Derby umbrella) designs the bikes, and then relabels them and sells them with different parts specs.
> 
> But, to the OP... From my experience, Focus bikes are incredibly well made, well specced, and are real head-turners.


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## shokhead

curt.w said:


> There are a few shops near me that carry Focus, they all seem to be lukewarm on them. Many of them are like "we may not carry them next year." I've got to think this has to be in part due to their supposed distro deal with Performance.
> 
> That said, the Performance web site, as of this morning, only has two Focus bikes listed (Culebro 1.0; Izalco Team Replica).


But they have a crap load in the shop, some at 1K off.


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## T K

My largest LBS just started selling Focus. He sells everything from Specialized to Pinarello. He told me Focus this year has been by far his best seller .Taking Specialized spot.
He said the Cayo was one of the nicer riding bikes he's been on.


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## Lazyrider

T K said:


> My largest LBS just started selling Focus. He sells everything from Specialized to Pinarello. He told me Focus this year has been by far his best seller .Taking Specialized spot.
> He said the Cayo was one of the nicer riding bikes he's been on.


My point of posting all those pics of Katusha riding and winning on the Cayo was to show how the "perception" of a brand based on marketing or company's business model so easily can influence people. Kind of adolescent thinking IMO but that is consistent with us americans. 

I like the aesthetic of this Colnago M10 in matte black, but I am not paying $4500 just for the frameset (made in China as well) when I can have a comparable (yes absolutely so) frame made by Focus and get entire bike with Ultegra 6700 for under $2k.That is like buying a Ferrari that is made in China for same price as the ones made in Italy.


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## Richard

Lazyrider said:


> My point of posting all those pics of Katusha riding and winning on the Cayo was to show how the "perception" of a brand based on marketing or company's business model so easily can influence people. Kind of adolescent thinking IMO but that is consistent with us americans.


I think there is a lot of truth in this. Our sales of Felt fell off the cliff after Garmin dropped them and went with Cervelo.


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## Mud

Now's the time to get your 2011 Focus... check out o2gearshop.com


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## carbonconvert

*Buying Power*

You see a national chain like Performance selling the Focus line cheaper because
they probably buy huge amounts which allows them a lower purchasing price. Very simple.
Much of the marketing isn't much different from other products. As a former bike industry
guy, most of anything you ride is made in China/Taiwan. I did say most-not all. Generally
even the top brands may have just their top tier frame made stateside. You would be paying
even more than you're complaining about already if it weren't made offshore. And it doesn't
make for an inferior product just because it doesn't have a "made in USA" decal. There is
a handful of OEM frame builders that do the bulk of all you see on the road and more than likely, its from Taiwan. That's not to say those EBAY frames aren't questionable. Even some of the traditional Italian names have their carbon frames made in Taiwan. That's just the way it is. The Focus frame is a fine frame.


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## mobilesleepy

Everyobody's talking up the Cayo- which looks like a fine frame, but what about their aluminum counterparts? Does anyone have a Culebro? How does that one stack up? The only review I read about it was on Bicycling.com, and they said it was more of a "grand Fondo" bike.

The TDF Cayo looks sweet. I'd be nice if they offered it in Katusha colors.


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## Lazyrider

Just got the new Colorado Cyclist and guess what they are selling? FOCUS. 
Bet people see them as higher end now that CC is carrying them. Perception and marketing like I said. Still doesn't change an inherently great frame.


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## cloudbuster

Im also looking for a 1st bike, which one?

jensonusa.com/store/product/BI275C08-Focus+Cayo+105+Bike+10.aspx]Focus Cayo 105 Bike '10 at JensonUSA.com[/url]

jensonusa.com/store/product/BI275C06-Focus+Bikes+Cayo+Expert+Ultegra+Cp+10.aspx]Focus Bikes Cayo Expert Ultegra CP '10 at JensonUSA.com[/url]

jensonusa.com/store/product/BI266C07-Focus+Cayo+40+Compact+Bike+11.aspx]Focus Cayo 4.0 Compact Bike '11 at JensonUSA.com[/url]


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## KMan

*Focus*

I think they are good bikes especially for the $$ - I just picked up these two MTBs for my kids for XMas....nice entry level MTB's with hydro disc brakes for under $900 for both.
I'll just replace the tires/tubes on these to drop almost 2 lbs on each bike.

Michael


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## atpjunkie

I know guys who work for Focus at their SD HQ
It's a German brand trying to get a pice of the market
putting them on sale is a way to get folks on them
they have a big presence in the West Coast Cross scene


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## Wile_E_Coyote

Lazyrider said:


> My point of posting all those pics of Katusha riding and winning on the Cayo was to show how the "perception" of a brand based on marketing or company's business model so easily can influence people.


Are you certain Katusha are riding the Cayo and not the Izalco?


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## mobilesleepy

The Focus in the pics look to have thicker seat/chain stays. The Izalco's stays are thinner, and are angular at the rear drop-outs. Cayo's look thicker, and the stays connect in a more normal fashion.


----------



## haydos

Some Katusha riders are riding the Cayo with the 3T Rigida fork (the fork specced to the 2012 Izalco) or the 3T Funda, while most are riding the Izalco frame.

The standard Cayo fork is a boat anchor; approx 500g. So no surprise on the fork swap...


----------



## tuck

Rise, old thread! RISE, I say! Yeahussssssss! 

Just got my 2013 Focus Izalco Pro 3.0 Friday, and have had it out twice, with a total of just 40 miles on two rides. That's enough time for me to know that the difference between my 2012 Trek Madone and this 2013 Focus is like night and day. Totally amazing at how well the Focus feels compared to the Trek.

Trek makes a great bike, of course, but the Focus? Wow. I mean, Wow!

Stiff, light, responsive, and climbs like a goat. LOVE it!

I initially wanted a Focus because I'm all about the Germans and all things German. Then I thought that having a bike that not everyone and their mother had (aka Trek, Specialized, etc) would be cool as well. But wow. I wasn't really thinking 100% about the performance of it, but luckily the guys at Focus had done that for me. hehe This bike is exactly what the reviews say it is. Great!

Have my old RXLs on it right now, but am going to get a set of Zipp 303s today. (Hope I like the Zipps...I love my RXLs).

It's meh and muh Focus.


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## StillKeen

Cheaper because 1) they buy a heap of them (and possibly when Focus are clearing out their stock and dumping it ... LBS's can't buy 500 or 1000 bikes in one hit, but Performance can). 2) Focus don't seem to impose the limitations that brands like Trek & Specialized do, where you can't sell online and at discount.

There was (maybe still is) a post on Wikipedia that the Focus Izalco time trial bike was a repainted Avanti Chrono (New Zealand designed by a small team of a couple of people and made in Taiwan/China). My question then with the rest of the Focus range, is how 'designed' in Germany is it? Specialized/Trek/Cannondale have large engineering design teams. Is Focus 'designed' or 'specified' in Germany? So many brands seem to be all marketing & paint schemes these days.

Saying all that, I saw a high spec izalco (2012 I think) at the start of the year and thought that I could definitely buy/own/ride one.


----------



## tuck

StillKeen...Performance doesn't carry Focus any longer. Focus themselves pulled the line from Performance as of this year. 

I personally spoke with a store manager of a Performance store in Atlanta back last fall when I became interested in Focus, as I was going to drive down from Chattanooga to look at them (Performance in Atlanta was the closest dealer at the time). He told me point blank that Focus pulled the line because of the fact that it was getting a department store reputation and they didnt' want that...obviously. 

Since then, several shops have picked up Focus, at least in this area. One in Nashville, a couple in Knoxville, a couple of specialty shops in Atlanta, and finally (yay!) Hub Endurance here in Chattanooga. That's where I got mine. Owner at Hub basically said they picked them up because 1. They were GREAT bikes and could hold their own against top of the line stuff for much less money and 2. They were considered a "niche"/boutique brand, which is what Hub carries. And that's fine by me, because I don't want something every other schmo is riding...aka Trek, Specialized, etc.

I've put about 75 miles on the Focus since Friday...the last three days...and can tell you that it by far exceeds the Madone I had been riding. Super great bike.


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## StillKeen

Tuck, I'd not realised that Focus wasn't at performance now. As for boutique, it is relative. As a Trek is common here (US), yet in some other markets, they're boutique. Wiggle sell Focus (normally pretty discounted) in the UK, which doesn't help to position them in the same league as Specialized/Trek. Trek/Specialized are generally only sold through brick and mortar shops and often not at a big discount (which seems partly due to Specialized always having a pretty limited supply).

I'd love to see a blind bike test. Take a frame from Trek, Specialized, Focus, Giant, Cannondale etc, fit the same group, contact points, wheels etc. So the only differing parts are frame, fork, headset. Then cover them in tape and have them ridden over and over again. Remove marketing from the mix, have reviews which arent based on advertisers spending or consumers bias from watching the tv.

For me, having seen Focus bikes 30 - 50% off for the past few years, I would have trouble paying full $RRP for a Focus in a LBS. Whereas Specialized/Trek, I know that 10-20% discount is about all I'll ever get. An Ultegra Di2 Izalco with decent wheels & kit for $3,000, that would raise some interest for me though. I've never seen (although I've not been looking that hard) a bad review on a Focus bike.


----------



## hipertec

Hi Tuck- how does Focus compare to your Trek and what model did you have?
I am thinking about the Focus- can you let me know where you got the bike at for the best price?


----------



## tuck

Hiyas hipertec,

First...let me just say that, for ME, the Focus is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH nicer than the Trek I have (2012 4.5 Madone with 105 gruppo). My Focus is the Izalco Pro 3.0 with full SRAM force. The difference is like night and day. The frame is lighter, stiffer, and much more responsive. And the gruppo is remarkable. 

If you were to get into a higher end Madone I'm sure things improve...could tell a difference between the 4.5 and a 6 series I test rode immediately, but not enough difference to make me want to go get one.

The Focus just feels better. And to be honest, the fact that I'm the only one riding a Focus in my area...that I know of, is a big plus for me. I have had a lot of guys asking about it and admiring it. Much stronger and advance riders than I. They all like it. I know it's a matter of time before I start seeing more of them, but the great thing is, even when they start to appear, they'll still be "rare", and that appeals to me. I don't want something every schmuck out there has. (May sound stoooopid, but it is what it is.)

And I got it from a LBS here in Chattanooga. Hub Endurance. I was about to drive to a shop in Atlanta (2 hour drive) when I was looking at the dealer locator on the Focus site. Hub in Chattanooga popped up and I called. Sure enough, they had JUST picked Focus up as a line. 

I could have gone thru an online vendor and saved some...but the whole support your LBS thing, ya know.

In my opinion, FOCUS is THE way to go. Much MORE bike for the $ AND they're sweet looking, IMHO. 

Hope that helps.


----------



## reedgmi

3 - year owner of a Focus Cayo Ultegra and LOVE IT!
Bought my son a Focus Mtn Bike, and he won the local 14 & under Cyclocross championship.
So .... only good things to say.


----------



## hipertec

Thanks...after researching out the Izalco Pro..winning 3 years straight best bike of the year, I decided to get a Focus. Was able to find one of the last Pro 1.0 2012 for a great price online. Comes with Dura ace components.
Will get it this week. I'm so excited.


----------



## PlatyPius

Lazyrider said:


> My point of posting all those pics of Katusha riding and winning on the Cayo was to show how the "perception" of a brand based on marketing or company's business model so easily can influence people. Kind of adolescent thinking IMO but that is consistent with us americans.
> 
> I like the aesthetic of this Colnago M10 in matte black, but I am not paying $4500 just for the frameset (made in China as well) when I can have a comparable (yes absolutely so) frame made by Focus and get entire bike with Ultegra 6700 for under $2k.That is like buying a Ferrari that is made in China for same price as the ones made in Italy.


I assume your name is indicative of the reason you felt that it was okay to post a huge image that ruins this thread for everyone else....


----------



## bikewriter

Seems the Cayo Evo di2 is going for great prices now. It has the T4 fork which is presumably the heavy fork many pros switched out to a 3T brand fork?


----------



## egger29

tuck said:


> Hiyas hipertec,
> 
> First...let me just say that, for ME, the Focus is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH nicer than the Trek I have (2012 4.5 Madone with 105 gruppo). My Focus is the Izalco Pro 3.0 with full SRAM force. The difference is like night and day. The frame is lighter, stiffer, and much more responsive. And the gruppo is remarkable.
> 
> If you were to get into a higher end Madone I'm sure things improve...could tell a difference between the 4.5 and a 6 series I test rode immediately, but not enough difference to make me want to go get one.
> 
> The Focus just feels better. And to be honest, the fact that I'm the only one riding a Focus in my area...that I know of, is a big plus for me. I have had a lot of guys asking about it and admiring it. Much stronger and advance riders than I. They all like it. I know it's a matter of time before I start seeing more of them, but the great thing is, even when they start to appear, they'll still be "rare", and that appeals to me. I don't want something every schmuck out there has. (May sound stoooopid, but it is what it is.)
> 
> And I got it from a LBS here in Chattanooga. Hub Endurance. I was about to drive to a shop in Atlanta (2 hour drive) when I was looking at the dealer locator on the Focus site. Hub in Chattanooga popped up and I called. Sure enough, they had JUST picked Focus up as a line.
> 
> I could have gone thru an online vendor and saved some...but the whole support your LBS thing, ya know.
> 
> In my opinion, FOCUS is THE way to go. Much MORE bike for the $ AND they're sweet looking, IMHO.
> 
> Hope that helps.




Tuck, question for you. I ride a focus cayo with a 105 groupo, I am looking to upgrade to the 2012 izalco pro 3.0.
The biggest thing for me is going from Shimano to SRAM.
You were a 105 guy, how was it going from 105 to SRAM ? That is my biggest hold up right now.


----------



## kachun

egger29 said:


> Tuck, question for you. I ride a focus cayo with a 105 groupo, I am looking to upgrade to the 2012 izalco pro 3.0.
> The biggest thing for me is going from Shimano to SRAM.
> You were a 105 guy, how was it going from 105 to SRAM ? That is my biggest hold up right now.


I rode a bikesdirect bike with 105 before I upgraded to an Izalco 2.0 with the old red. I love the responsiveness of the rear shifting on the sram but not as crisp on the front though. I prefer the 105's shifter size and comfort. Double-tap is phenomenal, but I notice that there is no feedback to tell me that I am at the highest cog unlike the 105. Not sure if you know what I mean...


----------



## Kenrow

egger29 said:


> Tuck, question for you. I ride a focus cayo with a 105 groupo, I am looking to upgrade to the 2012 izalco pro 3.0.
> The biggest thing for me is going from Shimano to SRAM.
> You were a 105 guy, how was it going from 105 to SRAM ? That is my biggest hold up right now.


Why don't you go with a Pro 4.0 with Shimano Ultergra? You will even save a few dollars...


----------



## tuck

egger29 said:


> Tuck, question for you. I ride a focus cayo with a 105 groupo, I am looking to upgrade to the 2012 izalco pro 3.0.
> The biggest thing for me is going from Shimano to SRAM.
> You were a 105 guy, how was it going from 105 to SRAM ? That is my biggest hold up right now.


I agree with kachun. rear shifting is great, while the front leaves a little to be desired. it's not a 'deal breaker' by any means, but i have had a little bit of a time getting used to it. luckily, i'm strong enough where i don't change to the inner ring that much...even around here.

even with the front ring shifting...i MUCH prefer the focus to my previous bike. and if i had to pick between another bike with shimano just to have shimano, or a focus, i'd go with focus. period. 

i like the feel of the frame, the stiffness, etc. and to be honest, i 1. love the look of mine (would post current photo of it, but stoooopid guv'ment machines won't let me do it it) and i love the fact that it's a 'special' bike...not everyone and their mother has one. 

my next bike will be a focus as well...whenever that may be. 

i would love to have a 2012 izalco 3.0 frameset/bike...one on fleabay now. i'm just too poor to get it right now.


----------



## thehotsung

Oh man I didn't realize Performance Bike had focus bikes for that cheap. Guess I'm taking the Focus brand out of my next bike purchases because now Focus price at LBS will be a major ripoff. I have a GT bike, but GT is another well known brand and Fuji is also well known. Not many people know of Focus. This really suck.


----------



## dubdryver

thehotsung said:


> Oh man I didn't realize Performance Bike had focus bikes for that cheap. Guess I'm taking the Focus brand out of my next bike purchases because now Focus price at LBS will be a major ripoff. I have a GT bike, but GT is another well known brand and Fuji is also well known. Not many people know of Focus. This really suck.


Have you read any of the first 3 pages of this thread? Better yet, have you rode a Focus? How can you assume that the prices won't be competitive at a LBS unless you go look. What happens if you walk into your LBS and they have Giant, Pinarello, and Scott and none of them either fit your budget or "WOW" you, and the Focus ends up feeling just right...you would still discard the bike because "not many know of Focus" The same could be said about Ridley, but they are incredibly popular in Europe. I wouldn't discount or downplay a product until you have enough knowledge to make an educated generalization.

I do not own a Focus, but I have demoed one and the Caya Evo 3.0 Force for just over $2k (2012) and it rode extremely well. I really liked the frame design, especially the tapered top tube. Did it convince me to trade in my S2? No, but for $1500 less....if I was making that decision when I bought my S2, I'd have a Focus Caya hanging in my spare bedroom instead of the S2 with a much better set of wheels as the price difference.


----------



## egger29

Kenrow said:


> Why don't you go with a Pro 4.0 with Shimano Ultergra? You will even save a few dollars...


I actually ended up going this route. I wanted to stay shimano, so i bought the 2013 cayo evo 4.0, it comes with the ultegra grouset.

I am completely jacked about this bike. Thanks for the info guys !


----------



## tuck

Welcome to the Focus club, Egger! 

I love my Focus so much, I'm seriously considering snagging a 2012 Pro 3.0 off Fleabay. 

I LOVE my Focus.


----------



## thehotsung

dubdryver said:


> Have you read any of the first 3 pages of this thread? Better yet, have you rode a Focus? How can you assume that the prices won't be competitive at a LBS unless you go look. What happens if you walk into your LBS and they have Giant, Pinarello, and Scott and none of them either fit your budget or "WOW" you, and the Focus ends up feeling just right...you would still discard the bike because "not many know of Focus" The same could be said about Ridley, but they are incredibly popular in Europe. I wouldn't discount or downplay a product until you have enough knowledge to make an educated generalization.
> 
> I do not own a Focus, but I have demoed one and the Caya Evo 3.0 Force for just over $2k (2012) and it rode extremely well. I really liked the frame design, especially the tapered top tube. Did it convince me to trade in my S2? No, but for $1500 less....if I was making that decision when I bought my S2, I'd have a Focus Caya hanging in my spare bedroom instead of the S2 with a much better set of wheels as the price difference.


No you misunderstood me. I like having a brand like Focus that many people don't have or don't know off. I just can't see myself buying one when I know now that they were sold for 30 to 50% at performance bike and are probably (assuming) sold at around 10 to 20% off at a LBS.


----------



## thirstyman

it should as it has geometry very much like a road bike with very relaxed angles. I've never thought of that as a positive.


----------



## AGW

egger29 said:


> I actually ended up going this route. I wanted to stay shimano, so i bought the 2013 cayo evo 4.0, it comes with the ultegra grouset.
> 
> I am completely jacked about this bike. Thanks for the info guys !


I just picked up my 4.0 as well. I've hmmm'd and haw'd over which new road bike fit my desires and budget for quite a while now, but one test ride blew everything else away.

And to write Focus off because they were once in Performance's catalog is ridiculous. They are far and away some of the most elite machines out there.


----------



## Maglore

Placed an order for a Cayo Evo 6.0 last weekend. I thought it offered the best value and the matt grey/UD carbon colour scheme on the 6.0 looks miles better than the red/white of the 5.0. Apart from that, the only differences were the shifters and rear mech (105 instead of Ultegra), which didn't justify the additional £200 to me.

For £1350, you get a great spec UCI Approved carbon frame and fork, decent enough wheels and Shimano 105. It offers one of the best value packages out there IMO.

Can't wait to pick it up.


----------



## tuck

Welcome to the Focus club, Maglore!

I love my Izalco Pro 3.0 so much, I tried to get another one off of Flea-Bay, but was sniped at the last second. Doh!


----------



## Maglore

Picked up my Cayo Evo 6.0 last week. It's a size 48cm which is an XS. I went wih the 6.0 as it has the best colour scheme except maybe the 3.0 in the red and black. I also had a load of parts to swap over.

Shimano 6700 Ultegra apart from the 105 rear mech and calipers
Selle Italia SLR XP saddle
Fizik Microtex bar tape (needs changing to red or black)
3T Dorico Ltd seatpost
Deda Zero 100 bars
Deda Zero 100 stem
Look Keo Classic pedals
Yishunbike 38/50mm carbon clinchers
23mm Michelin Lithion 2 tyres
Hope Head Doctor spacers

Will ditch the spacers in due course, but the head tube is a whole 25mm lower than my AMX-1 and I'll lower it in stages. I've put just under 100miles on it so far and it rides so smooth compared to my aluminium Merckx AMX-1, but it's more responsive under power. It handles quicker, but it's not nervous at all. Really happy so far. No idea on weight, but I reckon around 17.5lbs.


----------



## Maximus_XXIV

Are those labels on the headset spacers? I have not seen that before. I am bummed that I missed the clearance at performance, they seem to be nice bikes. I am starting to see more around here.


----------



## Maglore

The black spacers which came with the bike have Focus logos printed on them. I've now swapped them out for red anodised Hope ones.


----------



## Maximus_XXIV

I really like how the cables enter the frame on the head tube. That would justify internal routing for me.


----------



## Maglore

They are a nice feature and the cables run down moulded channels inside the frame, which are supposed to increase torsional rigidity. You can feel them as ridges and result is the slightly diamand-shaped downtube. With the access points being on the headtube, they're kept out of the way of crap being thrown up by the front wheel too.


----------



## Maglore

Maglore said:


> No idea on weight, but I reckon around 17.5lbs.


Weighed the bike last night. Came in at 16.6lbs including cages and pedals.

Bar tape swapped to black which looks much better. Stem also dropped another cm.


----------



## tangerineowl

Maglore said:


> Weighed the bike last night. Came in at 16.6lbs including cages and pedals.
> 
> Bar tape swapped to black which looks much better.


I've got to agree with you about the frame colour. Very nice.

The Ergoride 1.0 would be my 2nd choice for a production bike.


----------



## marcusc

Would just like to say thanks to everyone who posted in this thread!

After reading this thread and a bunch of online reviews, I'm happy to say I went ahead with the purchase of a 2012 Cayo Evo 2.0 w/Ultegra Di2. I have to admit, I'm buying it without a test ride which is a little intimidating, however the shop has a very flexible return policy in case I don't like it, which is unlikely. 

At $3000 it's an amazing deal. Locally, anything with the same specs was $4k+. I pick it up tomorrow in Toronto and look forward to logging MANY miles on it! Hopefully more than I got to put on my (accidented) TCR...!

With the money I "saved", I'll be able to get a set of race wheels!

I'll post some pictures once I get back tomorrow.


----------



## tuck

marcusc, i think you'll like your new FOCUS. :thumbsup:

i bought my izalco pro back in january without doing a test ride...or even EVER having ridden a FOCUS at all. like you, i was very nervous, but man, i'm glad i did. it really rides better than the other bikes i've owned and have tested. (wanted a FOCUS since i first saw one because i liked the thought of supporting a german company, plus i really liked the way the bike looked and what you get with them for the price(s).)

i already have just over 5k miles on the bike since january, and so far, only replaced the original sram chain and bottom bracket bearings (got caught in the rain on a couple of centuries and training rides). 

one of my complaints about FOCUS, however, is the lack of product 'bling', so to speak. hard to find anything from FOCUS anywhere. even my LBS doesn't really carry anything.


----------



## colnagoG60

Maximus_XXIV said:


> ... I am bummed that I missed the clearance at performance, they seem to be nice bikes. I am starting to see more around here.


Check "in-store" if you have a local Performance. I bought my "first" Izalco last Sept. It was a closeout 2011 model. There was another 2011 they were building up for someone, and they were the last (2) left. I liked mine so much, a compact for "light days" however, that I wanted another with a standard crank, and started looking again last month. Couldn't find any of the matte black 2012s online at Performance, and Carbon Connection didn't have any either. I went back to my local Performance and the one I saw last year was still there. Apparently the person who bought it wasn't happy with the fit, so I picked it up for $1,550.

I was thinking about going the "Chinese ebay" route, but the price for the whole bike with SRAM Force was a no brainer.


----------



## marcusc

tuck said:


> marcusc, i think you'll like your new FOCUS. :thumbsup:
> 
> i bought my izalco pro back in january without doing a test ride...or even EVER having ridden a FOCUS at all. like you, i was very nervous, but man, i'm glad i did. it really rides better than the other bikes i've owned and have tested. (wanted a FOCUS since i first saw one because i liked the thought of supporting a german company, plus i really liked the way the bike looked and what you get with them for the price(s).)
> 
> i already have just over 5k miles on the bike since january, and so far, only replaced the original sram chain and bottom bracket bearings (got caught in the rain on a couple of centuries and training rides).
> 
> one of my complaints about FOCUS, however, is the lack of product 'bling', so to speak. hard to find anything from FOCUS anywhere. even my LBS doesn't really carry anything.



In the end I tested out a couple bikes, and wound up getting the Focus.

I've only logged 350 miles or so, but wow what a bike! Rides much smoother than my Giant and is overall much more comfortable and efficient.

The wheels are also "acceptable", not as bad as the reviews suggested, however still a weak point in the bike. I'll delay that purchase until next year.

My regular ride is a 60 mile loop with a couple grueling climbs, which I can bang out solo in under 2h55 minutes on the Focus without the need for a break (since it's so comfortable!).

Overall I'm very happy with my purchase! Although I do agree, there's limited swag. I'm still wearing all my Giant gear since Focus stuff is hard to find! That isn't much of a concern, though.

ps, I only have one picture of when I picked it up, but here it is:










I've since installed white pedals, but my iPhone 5 with the pictures actually got soaked and wrecked on a rainy ride last night...oops!


----------



## colnagoG60

Love my Izalco Pro...picked up an '11 on closeout last fall. SRAM Red/Force mix, changed 50T/34T, 12-28 to 50T/36T, 11-23. Also changed stock Arione saddle to Arione VS. I'll be picking up another Izalco, again an '11 leftover from same local Performance store, with full SRAM force and standard crank.


----------



## colnagoG60

...just picked up the "spare" today:


----------



## tuck

:thumbsup:


----------



## Maglore

That's some spare!


----------



## colnagoG60

Yeah...liked the compact so much, I wanted another with a standard crank. So much easier to turn over the pedals than on my steel Colnago. I paid the same for the whole bike as I would have spent on upgrading the Colnago to full Campy Chorus, which was my original plan. 

FWIW, I was able to get up some 10%+ hills with the big ringed Izalco much easier this weekend, than with the steel bike 20 years ago. :screwy:

New bars (another 3T Ergonova...great to relieve hand pain/fatigue) and wheels to be ordered in the near future. Group shot for peer pressure:


----------



## colnagoG60

Wasn't sure if this is normal, but this hole is in both of my Izalcos:


----------



## tuck

Finally on a laptop at home instead of trolling the forums from the work PC or on the phone. So, with that...

Here's muh 2013 Izalco Pro. I ditched the red accents that it came with and had a few upgrades and chose to go with all black/white. Got the Bontrager Aeolus 5.0s to top it off. LOVE this bike!


Also, no worries on the hole. The last is a pic I snapped today. Same hole thing with mine.


----------



## colnagoG60

tuck said:


> ...Also, no worries on the hole. The last is a pic I snapped today. Same hole thing with mine.



Roger that...thanks for the confirmation.

:thumbup:


----------



## dphoenix

They suck buy a waterford


----------



## Soaring Vulture

That seems to be how they make it; that's the front derailleur cable going through. Here's what mine looks like:
View attachment 284386


----------



## colnagoG60

Nice to see a Focus win a historc TdF stage...2x up Alpe d'Huez in the 100th tour. Should make a nice poster.


----------



## redcon1

Agree- epic stage win. I was pulling for TeeJay, but it was clear that he was out of gas.

Focus should definitely make a poster!

Edit: I will check my Ergoride frame for the hole when I get home from vacation.


----------



## tuck

I would like to point out that, due to work and riding when not at work, I've only been recording the Tour..and as such...have only watched up to stage 8. Between you guys and the clowns at my bike shop tonight, the surprise is ruined. 

On the upside...Go Focus!


----------



## sunnyape

A bit late to the post, but it depends what part of the world you're buying a Focus bike in.
I am in Australia and I purchased a Focus Corrente (Alu framed hybrid with disc brakes) in 2011 for my daily commute and touring bike. Unfortunately, I recently found a crack in the frame near the bottom bracket (see pic).






.
Getting the warranty repair approved took 2 weeks, having the frame shipped from Germany will take 2-3 weeks and transferring the parts will probably take another week.
OK, it wasn't the most expensive bike on the rack, but one and half months to repair it? Really? Worse still is that the replacement frame doesn't come with a new warranty, just whatever is left of the original 2 year warranty.
PS. It think it's most likely that Focus's 'Made in Germany' label just means 'Assembled in Germany from parts made elsewhere', so they're probably no different to most other bike brands in that respect.


----------



## Maglore

They are only painted and assembled in Germany. Not sure if this is the case for the new Izalco Max, but I would be surprised is it's not.


----------



## colnagoG60

2nd season w/mine...swapped the stock SRAM Force for Campy Chorus, and moved onto a pair of C2s/T11s. Much happier now that I'm not fat-fingering shifts.

Frame seems to be holding up well after some serious potholes and wet rides:


----------



## Mapei

I test rode one about a year ago, and I just loved it. Ideal front to back balance. Handling is instinctive but not nervous. No limousine, but not boneshaking. Decently light. Not quite as pretty as my Mapei Colnago, but then what is? If my bike-buying jones ever resurrects itself, the Focus will be tops on my list.


----------



## mannymerc

I have an izalco pro 1.0 that I just installed dura ace 9000, I love the thing...


----------



## pmf

Maglore said:


> They are only painted and assembled in Germany. Not sure if this is the case for the new Izalco Max, but I would be surprised is it's not.


I was in Performance a while ago and they were displaying their Focus bikes. The sign said "German engineering". There were a pile of Focus bike shipping boxes on the floor that clearly said "Made in China". 

Pretty hard to find a bike, much less a carbon bike, that's not made in China these days.


----------



## headloss

pmf said:


> I was in Performance a while ago and they were displaying their Focus bikes. The sign said "German engineering". There were a pile of Focus bike shipping boxes on the floor that clearly said "Made in China".
> 
> Pretty hard to find a bike, much less a carbon bike, that's not made in China these days.


It must have been a good long while ago, I thought that PB stopped carrying Focus? I think mine actually says "made in Germany" but now I'm going to have to double check... gotta love those ambiguous stickers. I'll take Taiwan over China any day.


----------



## pmf

headloss said:


> It must have been a good long while ago, I thought that PB stopped carrying Focus? I think mine actually says "made in Germany" but now I'm going to have to double check... gotta love those ambiguous stickers. I'll take Taiwan over China any day.


It was a long time ago. I don't go to Performance much. 

I too would take Taiwan over China any day. When it says "Made in China", I don't think there's any question which China that is. I bet your says "Designed in Germany" or some such nonsense. That's what the ads at Performance used to say.


----------



## obed

I have an lbs about 2 miles from my shop that sells focus. They gave me a catalog a few weeks back when I was looking for a cyclocross bike... they had none in stock but would order one... I don't buy something I have not ridden...
I just looked in the catalog and all it says is that the bikes are German engineered, nothing about where they are made.


----------



## colnagoG60

Edinburgh Bicycle visit Focus Bikes | Edinburgh Bicycle Co-operative Blog

_"Every single bike they sell comes through this factory and although they are welded overseas everything else is done in house from testing to assembly. On an average weekday they will produce 2,500 complete bikes ready to be shipped out to stores around the world."_


----------



## headloss

2011 Focus Maleta


----------



## Trek_5200

fah35 said:


> I have been looking at the Focus Cayo or Focus Izalco due to their geometry fitting me. Whenever I go online I notice they always seem to be on sale like JensonUSA and Performance bikes. On the Focus website their MSRP is a lot higher. Other bike companies prices seem to be vey close to their MSRPs whereas Focus is not. Are these bikes on sale good deals or just average?


Sometimes distributors push bike shops to take delivery of too many bike and then they are forced later on to discount the product to clear out their stock rooms. I would not suggest attempting to draw a relationship between product quality and available discounts. Recently Colnago c-59's have been made available at much lower prices probably to make room for c-60's. Garmin was providing $100 rebate on the 810 unit, and suddenly there's a Garmin 1000. I don't follow Focus as a brand, but dealers may simply have too much stock, or the company is getting ready for an update.


----------



## kachun

colnagoG60 said:


> 2nd season w/mine...swapped the stock SRAM Force for Campy Chorus, and moved onto a pair of C2s/T11s. Much happier now that I'm not fat-fingering shifts.
> 
> Frame seems to be holding up well after some serious potholes and wet rides:


Are you running 25mm tires on those C2's? I am thinking of getting a set of C2 w/ T11 for my '12 Izalco Pro but I want to make sure that the frame have enough clearance for the increased tire and wheel dimensions.


----------



## ruckus

pmf said:


> It was a long time ago. I don't go to Performance much.
> 
> I too would take Taiwan over China any day. When it says "Made in China", I don't think there's any question which China that is. I bet your says "Designed in Germany" or some such nonsense. That's what the ads at Performance used to say.


That's a strange thing to say when parts and materials, even frame itself is done in China... Even Giant manufactures their bikes in China now. You can see pics of Giant's factories in China now where thr majority of manufacturing is donr now, Taiwan is mosyly testing and assembly from what i could glean. ADK who make bikes for Felt and others while HQ in Taiwan, their main manufacturing is China. You may want to research the chain of manufacturing and distribution.

Made in Taiwan often is about as legitimate as Focus and Ridley claiming their bikes are made in Germany/Belgium.


----------



## headloss

ruckus said:


> That's a strange thing to say when parts and materials, even frame itself is done in China... Even Giant manufactures their bikes in China now. You can see pics of Giant's factories in China now where thr majority of manufacturing is donr now, Taiwan is mosyly testing and assembly from what i could glean. ADK who make bikes for Felt and others while HQ in Taiwan, their main manufacturing is China. You may want to research the chain of manufacturing and distribution.
> 
> Made in Taiwan often is about as legitimate as Focus and Ridley claiming their bikes are made in Germany/Belgium.


There are plenty of bikes still being made in Taiwan at this point. Most of the Carbon is coming out of China but most of the higher end aluminum (that I've seen, I don't have numbers) is coming out of Taiwan. If you are going to make a statement followed by "you may want to research" then you may want to back up your opinion with some evidence. 

IF the sticker says "made in Taiwan" it's most likely made in Taiwan. It wouldn't make a lot of sense to make the frame in China and ship it to Taiwan for assembly...

Of course, it varies by brand and this is a Focus thread... no clue where Focus is making the majority of their bikes, but mine (frame and assembly) was made in Germany.


----------



## ruckus

If you actually read my post, I did what you admonished me for. Majority of carbon frames and forks are coming from China, that's where ADK and Giant and others have opened factories. And last I checked, focus carbon also from China, designed in Germany. 

My point was its dumb to flog made in China when many of carbon is from China, including the biggest brands. Where factory is has nothing to do with quality, but the standards that the factory abides by. And most of that is dependent on why the brand is willing to pay for. Factory just does what brand x wants at x price.

Argue you on about your Focus bike, have fun. Whatever, at least hope some of you don't care and just enjoy riding the bike.


----------



## colnagoG60

kachun said:


> Are you running 25mm tires on those C2's? I am thinking of getting a set of C2 w/ T11 for my '12 Izalco Pro but I want to make sure that the frame have enough clearance for the increased tire and wheel dimensions.



I'm running the 23mm rim w/23mm tires, but after the bike was built up w/Campy, I put on a rear which had a 25mm Conti 4000, and fit fine, once I opened the calipers a bit. Frame clearance should ok. Hard to see from the pic, but there is at least 3mm of space between the rear tire, and the frame, on either side.


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## mambo

When Team Katusha rode Focus bikes in 2011, Purito Rodriguez thought they lacked so much stiffness, he ordered frames from Sarto. they made custom tubing for him to match the Focus frames as much as possible.


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## colnagoG60

mambo said:


> When Team Katusha rode Focus bikes in 2011, Purito Rodriguez thought they lacked so much stiffness, he ordered frames from Sarto. they made custom tubing for him to match the Focus frames as much as possible.


I thought I read somewhere that most of the team were on Cayos, as they were "stiffer" than the Izalcos. But at 5'3" (193lbs when I got the bike, now back down to 175), and someone who squats at 450-500lbs, the Izalco is plenty stiff for me. Hard to believe that someone ~140lbs wouldn't find either frame "stiff enough".


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## mannymerc

Yo obviously have never ridden an izalco, I can put some power down and Im a heavier rider (175) and this thing is not flexing at all.


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## mambo

No I have never ridden Focus, but my statement is correct. Read into it what you like. Rodriguez is not the only pro who has sourced his frames from Sarto. There are still Pro Tour teams riding Sarto frames too.
I don;t know what other frames you may have ridden, but I can assure you when you try a truly outstanding frame, your opinions regarding comfort and stiffness will alter drastically.


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## mannymerc

exactly,YOU dont know how many I have ridden, so dont make assumptions.


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## headloss

mannymerc said:


> exactly,YOU dont know how many I have ridden, so dont make assumptions.


No sense in arguing with someone who participates in a Focus thread and also admits to having never been on a Focus... 

Gotta love the internet, some guy reads something on the internet and then spreads these "facts" around like gospel. In one ear, out the other... that's my approach to people like mambo (especially when they don't provide a link stating the source of said info).


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## mambo

This was not something I read on the internet. It is a fact that comes from a reliable source. Otherwise I would keep it to myself. I am as skeptical as you guys about unsubstantiated facts put out on the web. Obviously, the information about what bikes pros are riding if they are not riding their official sponsor frames is not going to be readily accessible in writing, but I know there is at least one other forum member who is aware of this fact. Focus allowed this and the frames were prepared with Focus decals. I am not aware if other team members also chose other frames the other forum member believes they were all on Sarto frames, but I cannot substantiate that. You only have to chat with pro team mechanics. Tony Rominger only ever rode Sarto frames as a pro, Lance Armstrong rode Sarto built frames when with Cofidis, Moser, Fondriest (whose bikes are still built by them) - this information is out there and no secret if you look for it, the list is longer and continues to the present day, especially amongst Italian pros. In the steel days, around 40% of the European pro peloton were riding them too.

I wasn't trying to bash Focus, I have no grudge against the brand. I was just stating a fact for reference about one particular model year. For all I know the newer iterations may be better. Again, I restate, until you ride a truly tube-to-tube, made to measure custom frame from a good frame builder (Cyfac, Parlee, Sarto), you may not realise how compromised you are on a stock bike, how much better the ride can be and how less prone to failure they are -again you'd be surprised at the % failure rate of carbon frames in the pro peloton - even some of the most respected brands, if you spoke to the team mechanics. But hey, they put out a lot more wattage than us mere mortals.


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## mannymerc

Ok good..... now back on topic, Im glad they are on sale for now, because I can get a great bike with a lower price tag.


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## sunnyape

Following my earlier post about a Focus Corrente with a crack in the frame, after waiting 6 weeks, the replacement frame finally arrived.

I had been promised that the frame was going to be the same colour and type as the original, but it was matte white, not gloss light blue. I wasn't exactly thrilled with this, but was sick of hearing crap from the LBS and Focus and just wanted it fixed.

When I came to pick up the bike in the afternoon, I was shocked to see that the old forks were installed, so I had an ugly half white, half blue, half gloss, half matte bike. I was furious the bike shop hadn't bother to call me to tell me and then basically just said "That's how Focus are. They won't replace the forks as well, even if they are a totally different colour". Also, the frame came missing some of the plastic retainers for the hydraulic tubing, so they had to use a cable tie to hold it it place and it moves around in other places. Also, various blanking plugs for the frame are missing, so there are large holes for water to get into the frame or into unused bolt holes.

Generally, I now think Focus suck. Sure, it was great value when I bought it, but I think their warranty replacement program on even recent bikes is slow, misleading and indifferent. I am going to demand the LBS get a matching fork from Focus or provide a refund. If not, I'm going to take the matter further.

I've found a Specialized bike in my size at another shop and am going to buy it. I will never buy another Focus bike.


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## nirVELOvana

sunnyape said:


> Following my earlier post about a Focus Corrente with a crack in the frame, after waiting 6 weeks, the replacement frame finally arrived.
> 
> I had been promised that the frame was going to be the same colour and type as the original, but it was matte white, not gloss light blue. I wasn't exactly thrilled with this, but was sick of hearing crap from the LBS and Focus and just wanted it fixed.
> 
> When I came to pick up the bike in the afternoon, I was shocked to see that the old forks were installed, so I had an ugly half white, half blue, half gloss, half matte bike. I was furious the bike shop hadn't bother to call me to tell me and then basically just said "That's how Focus are. They won't replace the forks as well, even if they are a totally different colour". Also, the frame came missing some of the plastic retainers for the hydraulic tubing, so they had to use a cable tie to hold it it place and it moves around in other places. Also, various blanking plugs for the frame are missing, so there are large holes for water to get into the frame or into unused bolt holes.
> 
> Generally, I now think Focus suck. Sure, it was great value when I bought it, but I think their warranty replacement program on even recent bikes is slow, misleading and indifferent. I am going to demand the LBS get a matching fork from Focus or provide a refund. If not, I'm going to take the matter further.
> 
> I've found a Specialized bike in my size at another shop and am going to buy it. I will never buy another Focus bike.


_Chalk another one up for *our team*_


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## jwalther

sunnyape said:


> Following my earlier post about a Focus Corrente with a crack in the frame, after waiting 6 weeks, the replacement frame finally arrived.
> 
> I had been promised that the frame was going to be the same colour and type as the original, but it was matte white, not gloss light blue. I wasn't exactly thrilled with this, but was sick of hearing crap from the LBS and Focus and just wanted it fixed.
> 
> When I came to pick up the bike in the afternoon, I was shocked to see that the old forks were installed, so I had an ugly half white, half blue, half gloss, half matte bike. I was furious the bike shop hadn't bother to call me to tell me and then basically just said "That's how Focus are. They won't replace the forks as well, even if they are a totally different colour". Also, the frame came missing some of the plastic retainers for the hydraulic tubing, so they had to use a cable tie to hold it it place and it moves around in other places. Also, various blanking plugs for the frame are missing, so there are large holes for water to get into the frame or into unused bolt holes.
> 
> Generally, I now think Focus suck. Sure, it was great value when I bought it, but I think their warranty replacement program on even recent bikes is slow, misleading and indifferent. I am going to demand the LBS get a matching fork from Focus or provide a refund. If not, I'm going to take the matter further.
> 
> I've found a Specialized bike in my size at another shop and am going to buy it. I will never buy another Focus bike.


Sounds like the problem is with your LBS as much as the manufacturer. I'd raise hell if I were you (coming from a very happy Focus owner).


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## marcusc

marcusc said:


> Would just like to say thanks to everyone who posted in this thread!
> 
> After reading this thread and a bunch of online reviews, I'm happy to say I went ahead with the purchase of a 2012 Cayo Evo 2.0 w/Ultegra Di2. I have to admit, I'm buying it without a test ride which is a little intimidating, however the shop has a very flexible return policy in case I don't like it, which is unlikely.
> 
> At $3000 it's an amazing deal. Locally, anything with the same specs was $4k+. I pick it up tomorrow in Toronto and look forward to logging MANY miles on it! Hopefully more than I got to put on my (accidented) TCR...!
> 
> With the money I "saved", I'll be able to get a set of race wheels!
> 
> I'll post some pictures once I get back tomorrow.


So, 14 months later I Google "cracked Focus frames" and stumbled across this thread. As I was reading through it, I saw a post from myself! haha...yea....





Rather ironic that I said in my original post "hopefully more miles than I put on my TCR". Only got 3600 Kms on it. I am going to the local distributor tonight, will update on what they say.


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## Notvintage

Maximus_XXIV said:


> I really like how the cables enter the frame on the head tube. That would justify internal routing for me.


Unless you work on your own bike or have an electronic drive train. In a mechanical drivetrain internal routing typically adds drag and is a pain to swap/clean cables. That's likely why high end bikes like Time make both specific electric or mechanical frames.


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## dubdryver

Notvintage said:


> Unless you work on your own bike or have an electronic drive train. In a mechanical drivetrain internal routing typically adds drag and is a pain to swap/clean cables. That's likely why high end bikes like Time make both specific electric or mechanical frames.


Well of course a cable swap is going to be a PITA if you don't work on your own bike....chances are you'll be in over your head. In which case you're probably better off taking it to a shop. As far as the difficulty rating that you're implying, it is purely dependent on the make/model of the frame. Not all routing is the same, and there are definitely some that are easier than others. I imagine there are some that aren't even worth doing without some kind of chase..

I thought I would need to replace the cable liner when doing a cable swap on my Cervelo S2, and it turned out to be just as easy to replace as all my frames with external routing. 

As far as adding drag...again make/model.....it's not an absolute.

I don't have a great deal of experience with Focus bikes other than I have also seen many on sale. I know they are very competitively priced. As far as cracking or breaking goes...I think you get that with every brand, but I do know that the frame strength testing that is done in Germany is a lot more strict than here in the U.S. with the EFBe.


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