# Do you stop at all traffic lights and wait??



## cpcritter (Sep 24, 2008)

I have been commuting alot this year. I have a system for the traffic lights. Depending on the intersection I will either, Stop and wait for green, Stop and wait until the light is ready to turn green check for traffic and go early or Slow down to a crawl and if there is no traffic go. I may work hard to get through the intersection on a yellow but never blow the intersection when the light is red at full speed and just blast away.

I ask this because a fellow cyclist felt it necessary to catch up to me on his way to his group ride to chastise me for pushing the light.

I explained that it was nice to not stop and go with the group of cars, I had more close calls with a group of cars around me. He was quick to argue that you don't do that on a group ride and I said that was right because you have enough in the group to assist in controlling traffic.

We stopped at a stop sign he rolled through without putting his foot down and I commented on as much and road off.

Okay, now I ask "Do we all observe traffic as though we are cars?" which means No side walks, no passing on the right and observing all signs & lights (even in long traffic lines at lights)
or
"Do we push the traffic laws when it makes sense and it can be done safely?"

Just looking for some input.


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## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

In the city and the suburbs, yes. 

In rural areas, I'll do a "rolling stop" at stop signs, but not at red lights.

On club rides, although the announcement is made before every ride to obey all traffic laws, including lights and stop signs, this is honored mainly in the breach. My club is recreational and I have a feeling it's due to people (probably less experienced) not wanting to unclip after spending the last five miles trying to get clipped-in.

On shop rides from my LBS, we always stop.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

Which is why we rarely do group rides.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

I stop at red lights 99% of the time. The only time I don't is when I'm emboldened by fellow biker scofflaws or I'm intimately familiar with a particular light and know it's either a liar or paper tiger. There's this one light on Sepulveda......

With stop signs, it's a rolling, California stop for me, unless I spot a cop or I see traffic.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

Mapei said:


> I stop at red lights 99% of the time. The only time I don't is when I'm emboldened by fellow biker scofflaws or I'm intimately familiar with a particular light and know it's either a liar or paper tiger. There's this one light on Sepulveda......
> 
> With stop signs, it's a rolling, California stop for me, unless I spot a cop or I see traffic.


I think stop light running is a regional thing. When I lived and rode in SoCal there was no way I was running a light. On the east coast it is a rare thing to see a cyclist not run one.


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## Guest (Sep 25, 2008)

For the most part I don't run them, the usual exception being the ones I know aren't going to change without a car pulling up and in a small town early in the morning, I'm not waiting.


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## Colin Y (Jul 1, 2008)

I run most red lights on campus. Say what you will about this, but there's not too much traffic at the regular traffic lights and students walking across the road non-stop make cars wait anyway.


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## loudog (Jul 22, 2008)

i run em all the time. however, only if there is no traffic and i can see all avenues. if there are cars behind me i will stop so i dont confuse other drivers. sitting at empty red lights insults my sense of sight. if its clear and no traffic, i go!


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## Squidward (Dec 18, 2005)

While crossing the T at T intersections, I don't usually stop for red lights nor stopsigns. I stop and wait for everything else.


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## HannahG (Aug 31, 2007)

I usually stop at signs, only because every intersection has really horrible visibility thanks to corn fields. Lights I always due if only for not getting people in cars mad at me.


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## empty_set (Nov 1, 2006)

It is situationally dependent here in Phoenix. Some lights at 5am are begging to be run. Some stop signs at 5pm you are asking to be hit.

A lot of intercity and slightly sub/urban neighborhood areas could be what YuriB calls "No cop, no stop" spots. Phoenix and outlying environs are pretty sparse and don't have what the east coast has at all.


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## lancezneighbor (May 4, 2002)

In NM I run EVERYTHING stop signs, lights etc. Even in front of cops, they don't care. But, now that I am in London, I notice almost all cyclists stop and wait at lights. So I will do that here. The good thing here is that the drivers in their cages don't seem to mind when bikes "filter" through to the front of the traffic at the light. This usually ends up bunching up a group of cyclists and traffic is better controlled. Plus drivers here actually pay attention to what is going on around them, instead of midlessly heading forward.

http://vickyfoggyday.blogspot.com/


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## majura (Apr 21, 2007)

I go through red lights on intersections that are small/medium and that I know very well (including the set order of which flow of traffic goes). I always slow down and check 5 or 6 times, hands on both brakes and feet ready to clip out. There's also 4 seconds between Greens, so I'll ride through yellow and yellow>red.
Having ridden road and MTBs for a while as well as having a lot of commuting experience, I'd like to think that I've got that knack on how to handle my bike to avoid situations too.

Berlin is a poor city - that can't afford to sync up lights - whilst being mixed in with traditional German regulation= traffic lights everywhere that are on timers, not detection. When I have waited at every light it takes around 15-20min longer on my commute. It's not for everybody though and like MB1 said, it really depends on where you are in the world. The bottom line, stop for red if you're not sure but don't get complacent- you are never safe on a bike.


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## JohnnyTooBad (Apr 5, 2004)

Not again!? :mad2: 

Do a search. This horse has been beat so much that elmer's has been calling every night for a year.

but, if you won't do a search.... I commute, and it depends on the specific intersection. I'll never blow a light at full speed, but there are lights where I will simply wait for green, others where I'll stop, wait for traffic to be completely clear (not just a gap), and go, and other intersections where, if it's obviously clear, I'll slow to almost a stop and roll through. I don't like going through intersections as a whole pack of cars is starting up, because it's unsafe for them to pass me, yet they will do it anyway. So I try to be out of the intersection before they pass me.

As for stop signs, the only ones I encounter are on the bike path, and some require slowing to see if there are any cars, and some can be blown off completely. There are one or two that require a full stop because the path crosses a 4 lane road where the cars don't stop, and sight lines are bad.


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## macalu (Jan 16, 2003)

Most of the time I treat stop signs and traffic lights as yield signs. I stop when I need to and go when I can. I think that is pretty common in the DC area, from what I have observed. If I am with a group, and the group stops, I stop too.


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## PegLeg (Jun 28, 2008)

I do my best to follow the traffic laws. I very rarely if ever blow a red light or a stop sign.

The only thing I do on a regular basis that seems to piss off drivers is pass on the right. When I ride into/home from work and there is a line of cars at a stop sign or light I and not going to pull up and take my place in line.


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## Rajarajan (Aug 6, 2008)

My rides usually start at 6 in the morning in suburban MD and I stop at lights/stop signs only if there is a vehicle already at the intersection or if I can see/hear one approaching.


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

I wait for the light 90% of the time.


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## cpcritter (Sep 24, 2008)

JohnnyTooBad said:


> Not again!? :mad2:
> 
> Do a search. This horse has been beat so much that elmer's has been calling every night for a year.


Okay, You don't like to beat this horse for a new forum user. 

But here it goes...I think that I do the exact same methods of traffic light/sign evaluation as you. So even though it may of pained you to write about it again it is trully appreciated and a lot easier to find.


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## messyparrot (Sep 17, 2007)

When it is red on the stoplight I stop no if ands or buts, the peeps here would love a reason to run you over.

Once stopped I may go though it if there is no traffic.
Cars seem to hate bikes here, always getting a horn blown (courtesy beep maybe?).


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

I almost always roll through stop signs, unless there's traffic or a cop there. Red lights are another story. I always stop for them.


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## RandB (Mar 12, 2007)

I roll through stop signs unless the cars get there first. For lights I stop.Well at least mostly, as exceptions are made when it is pouring rain.


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## Chris H (Jul 7, 2005)

I usually only stop if there is other traffic. This is for both lights and stop signs. Most lights here don't change and I don't have an hour to wait on them to do it. The city can't seem to fix them, so I really don't feel bad about it.


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## Scot_Gore (Jan 25, 2002)

If I didn't I couldn't go East from my house. A block from my house is a stop light out of my residential neighborhood. It's on a magnetic censor and does not go green unless something trips it and I can't make it "see" me in a 1000 tries. I run it. The sight lines are good and I can see cross traffic for about a 1/2 mile north and a mile south.

I go North and West on my commute and pass through a light industry area between 6-7 AM and again between 6-7 PM. It has a couple of lights in it that are likely needed in work hours when this area is hopping, but in the pre and post work hours that I'm passing through, I'm almost always alone in the lanes. I often run the reds if I can't see or hear other road users around (they don't change for me either). 

When I get downtown I often feel like a silly boy scout sitting at reds as the Hipster's fly by me, but I do it any way. 

Scot


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

Here's my policy, like it or not. I stop at all red lights. If I'm making a right hand turn, I go after making a very brief or rolling stop (right on red is legal in NC). Sometimes a light will get "stuck" and won't trip, however, and in those cases I will go if the traffic is clear.

Stops signs are another matter. I usually just make a rolling stop at stop signs, but will make a complete stop if any traffic is near. If I'm making a right turn, I just about always roll through if the coast is clear.

I never blow through any signals or stop signs. That's just stupid.


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## Squidward (Dec 18, 2005)

majura said:


> I go through red lights on intersections that are small/medium and that I know very well (including the set order of which flow of traffic goes). I always slow down and check 5 or 6 times, hands on both brakes and feet ready to clip out. There's also 4 seconds between Greens, so I'll ride through yellow and yellow>red.


There was a guy who lived and rode his bike a few miles south of here who thought he knew the intersections and timings of lights and such. He rode through a red light and died as the result of an on-coming car running into him. What was that statistic? Most automobile accidents happen within 5 miles of home or something like that? It's because familiarity leads people to let down their guard and accidents happen. Unfortunately, for cyclists, accidents between cars and cyclists almost always have the car winning. I keep this in mind every time I hit the road.


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## Loraura (Jun 30, 2008)

I slow way down and roll through stop signs unless there is a car coming, then I stop completely and obey the order as if I'm driving my car. 

I stop for all red lights 99% of the time. I will very rarely run a red light if it's one that won't trigger to turn green unless another car pulls up or I walk over and press the cross walk button. In those rare (early early weekend morning) cases, I'll look both ways, and run it when clear.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

I stop at lights but I don't wait if there isn't a car with me at the light. The lights here won't change for a bike.


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## GregH (Jul 27, 2008)

*Too much traffic not to stop at lights*

I stop at all red lights cause there is always traffic around here day or night. If you run the light when it's clear, the drivers get upset. The longer the ride though, the more I don't feel like clipping out.

Almost all the stop signs I cross are 4-ways, so you can do a rolling stop.

Haven't seen any cops, they are usually looking for speeders and that ain't me.....yet.


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## Stickarm (Apr 9, 2008)

MB1 said:


> I think stop light running is a regional thing. When I lived and rode in SoCal there was no way I was running a light. On the east coast it is a rare thing to see a cyclist not run one.


This seems like the most insightful comment in this thread. It would be great if people would start saying *where they are* when testifying to stopping or not stopping for red lights and stop signs. Without that information, your testimony is useless.

In New York City you'd have to be insane to stop for red lights and stop signs -- riders here treat them as yield signs instead. You are certainly legally required to stop for traffic signals and signs, just like cars, but these laws are not enforced, same as with jaywalking laws for pedestrians. The best guideline for how to behave in this city is "get out of the way." If you're in the way, everyone will (appropriately!) come down on you like a ton of bricks (you jerk!), and that includes the police. Cars make crazy u-turns, bikes roll through stop signs, pedestrians jaywalk with impunity and everyone keeps moving as best we can.


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## desmo13 (Jun 28, 2006)

I stop at all red lights except "T" instersections where there is a bike lane.

I stop at all stop signs, unless on a roadie group ride, and I hate it But it would be more dangerous to stop in a group


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## pw1972 (Jun 10, 2008)

I almost always obey the traffic signals. Very rarely will I run them. I want automobiles to treat me as though I'm a vehicle on the road, and figure if I act in a similar manner to the automobiles, maybe someone will notice and be more apt to treat me that way.

I've also seen police ticket cyclists for speeding and running red lights.


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## feh (Mar 8, 2007)

I stop at all red lights and wait for green. I roll through stop signs, unless traffic requires a stop. My riding environment is rural/suburbs.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

*Great description!*



Stickarm said:


> In New York City you'd have to be insane to stop for red lights and stop signs -- riders here treat them as yield signs instead. You are certainly legally required to stop for traffic signals and signs, just like cars, but these laws are not enforced, same as with jaywalking laws for pedestrians. The best guideline for how to behave in this city is "get out of the way." If you're in the way, everyone will (appropriately!) come down on you like a ton of bricks (you jerk!), and that includes the police. Cars make crazy u-turns, bikes roll through stop signs, pedestrians jaywalk with impunity and everyone keeps moving as best we can.


I learned to drive in NYC. You'll never have an accident if you're always conscious of the flow, synchronizing your moves to the traffic around you. Drivers in LA, DC, and other cities I've ridden and driven in, are more individualistic, the over-cautious and aggressive ones interrupting the flow. NYC cops are still the coolest. They don't seem to sweat the small stuff.

French drivers are like New Yorkers, Italians too. The Brits are generally more law abidiing and polite, same with the Germans. So I guess you have to conform depending on what other's expect.


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## saf-t (Sep 24, 2008)

Cambridge (MA) just started ticketing cyclists for running reds......


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## cpcritter (Sep 24, 2008)

saf-t said:


> Cambridge (MA) just started ticketing cyclists for running reds......


I have to vent here. If they are going to ticket a cyclist for running a red light then they need to adjust the lights to change when a cyclist is stopped there. I have many lights that will not change until the sensor picks up the car that comes up after me and there have been tickets written in my area also.

I have pushed the cross walk button on occasion to get a green light but then again I am not permitted on the side walk either!?! 

Having started this thread because a clubby rider chastized me for "pushing" the red light and finding out that most cyclists ride as I do, with safety and common sense, gives me some peace of mind.

Since this clubby rider rides out of a location on my commute home on Wednesdays I may run into him again (figuratively speaking of course). We'll see.


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## Saving Hawaii (Oct 2, 2008)

Riding in Chico, which is maybe 100,000-person college town in NorCal, I like to think of stop signs as glorified yields, and stop lights as stop signs (or yields... depends on the street and time). I realize it's not the most legal practice, but it makes sense and the drivers in this city in my experience expect it. With appropriate eye contact and slowing (to make certain of the driver's intent), there's a few intersections I've learned to cut through even though cars beat me there, because the traffic expects me to blow the sign, and me yielding to them just screws the traffic up more (not to mention I've got a good place to bail if something bad happens).


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## Leopold Porkstacker (Jul 15, 2005)

Yes, yes, I do, because if a cop is bored and wants to be a dick, he’ll write you up. Bicyclists, at least here in California, have to follow all the rules of the road that automobiles do (obviously you aren’t going to get a ticket for not going 50MPH in a 50MPH zone however) as outlined within the California Vehicle Code.


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## velotel (Apr 26, 2007)

Only when cars are crossing, but then I live in France so there's no problem.


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

If I can I consider turning right at any red light if traffic would only keep me from going straight. With a bike lane or no traffic coming from my left that is usually fine with me as I am happy enough if I keep moving.


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## bigjohnson54 (May 31, 2005)

In Idaho the law say that you have to stop for a red light and then you can proceed through the intersection, yielding to traffic, but stop signs, you can treat them as yield signs. I wyoming you have to stop at stop signs and put a foot down or risk getting a ticket. After riding my bike all over this summer it is hard to remember not to roll through stop signs when driving my truck


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## Doctor Who (Feb 22, 2005)

I live in Chicago, which just like NYC, has a whole "getouttadaway" mentality when it comes to driving/cycling. 

If there's no traffic around, I'll slow down to a walking pace at a stop light and roll through. Stop signs on side streets, I'll blow –*the drivers here EXPECT you to. When I first moved here, drivers would actually get confused if I would stop at a stop sign and wait my turn. Now, I play it real safe –*I don't blow blind corners and I slow down at stop signs/lights, but if I stopped at every single one and waited my turn, I'd never get anywhere. 

Thing is, drivers here drive about the same way, so I don't feel bad. I have heard of cops giving tickets for the above behavior, but they're cracking down more on fixed-gear kids BLOWING lights with traffic queued up or riding at night without lights.


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## biknben (Jan 28, 2004)

When a motorist is within sight, I tend to follow the rules of the road. Otherwise, it is like a tree falling in the woods. If no one is there to see me...did I really do anything wrong? :thumbsup:


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## Slim Again Soon (Oct 25, 2005)

I stop at all red lights. I usually wait for the green. Rare cases, with go, if no traffic around (but how often does that happen? Not very).

Stop signs, I sorta-kinda stop. Except one light, which the drivers treat as a yield sign. I'm afraid if I stop at that one, I'll get clobbered from behind.

So at that intersection I do as the drivers do, and glide through, unless cars are coming.


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## Stickarm (Apr 9, 2008)

Doctor Who said:


> If I stopped at every single one and waited my turn, I'd never get anywhere.


Right on, brother!

Thanks to Fredrico for the props. Thanks, also, to everyone who has managed to explain *where they are riding* when explaining how they ride.


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## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

As with most in my area, DC/metro, it depends on the situation. Size of road, time of day, day of week, and amount of traffic all play a part.

During the first part of my morning commute, most of the lights are still blinking yellow or red because it's so early. I certainly don't come to a complete stop at the blinking red at 05:00. That same traffic light on my evening commute is way too dangerous to run. I wait for the green.


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## Brimanndude (Aug 15, 2008)

Since almost all of my rides are between 3-5 AM, I only stop if there are cars waiting at the intersection (or coming near it). If there are no cars in sight, I slow down and roll through. Some of the lights around here require a car to be tripped. 

This morning I rolled through a light at a major intersection, and a cop saw me do it. He didn't pull me over. 

If I did ride during the day, I would stop at each one.


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