# The Press Conference



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Early indications are that Disco is done and surprise, surprise AC has never even thought of doping, so please trust him and give him a job.


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## BikinCO (Feb 17, 2004)

*1st Article*

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/08/10/sports/EU-SPT-CYC-Contador-Statement.php


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2007)

Methinks thou doth protest too loudly.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

the_rydster said:


> Methinks thou doth protest too loudly.


Do you think he'd give us permission to see his blood profiles that the UCI keeps now?

Other now known OP dopers also offered up their DNA.

And finally it is clear Fuentes was not just blood doping but providing the full range of services and the specific accussations that have been leveled at AC do not involve blood doping but "recovery" hormones.


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## Barry Muzzin (Sep 18, 2006)

"We have to make an effort to move forward in believing in cycling..."

"Contador said he would seek legal action against anyone making defamatory accusations in the future."

Wonder what 7 time Tour winner helped write AC's statement?


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2007)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Do you think he'd give us permission to see his blood profiles that the UCI keeps now?
> 
> Other now known OP dopers also offered up their DNA.
> 
> And finally it is clear Fuentes was not just blood doping but providing the full range of services and the specific accussations that have been leveled at AC do not involve blood doping but "recovery" hormones.


Dwayne Barry - I was mocking AC's protest not your posts......just to clear up any confusion.

The question marks hanging over AC will not go away.


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## 007biker1 (Mar 22, 2007)

you know, it's sad to me that everyone on this forum will forever believe that anyone who wins has to be doping (unless your Lemond, he's clean and the only person to win the tour de france clean). I still believe you are innocent until proven guilty (which means I belive AC is clean) unlike most of you who now subcribe to ASO's stance that every rider is guilty until they prove themselves innocent.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2007)

007biker1 said:


> I still believe you are innocent until proven guilty


Ulrich, Basso? Innocent?


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

the_rydster said:


> Dwayne Barry - I was mocking AC's protest not your posts......just to clear up any confusion.
> 
> The question marks hanging over AC will not go away.



Sorry, I wasn't responding too you specifically. Just ranting as once again a rider takes the fans for fools.


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## Lumbergh (Aug 19, 2005)

007biker1 said:


> you know, it's sad to me that everyone on this forum will forever believe that anyone who wins has to be doping (unless your Lemond, he's clean and the only person to win the tour de france clean). I still believe you are innocent until proven guilty (which means I belive AC is clean) unlike most of you who now subcribe to ASO's stance that every rider is guilty until they prove themselves innocent.


Yah - I want so much to believe that too, except all these tour winners keep somehow either failing dope controls or otherwise being implicated in doping scandals.

I want to believe. Just like Fox Mulder - I want to believe - at this point, I just don't believe AC is clean.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

007biker1 said:


> you know, it's sad to me that everyone on this forum will forever believe that anyone who wins has to be doping (unless your Lemond, he's clean and the only person to win the tour de france clean). I still believe you are innocent until proven guilty (which means I belive AC is clean) unlike most of you who now subcribe to ASO's stance that every rider is guilty until they prove themselves innocent.


Innocent until proven guilty is a principle to prevent someone from unjustly losing rights before being given a fair shake of some sort, it does not mean that a person forming an opinion about a situation has to become willfully ignorant by pretending they don't know what they know.

ASO has the right to manage the image of their event, they own it, if they wish to keep people away from it for whatever reason that is their perogative. No one has the right to race the TdF, even a professional cyclist.


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## bonkmiester (Sep 23, 2005)

Lumbergh said:


> Yah - I want so much to believe that too, except all these tour winners keep somehow either failing dope controls or otherwise being implicated in doping scandals.
> 
> I want to believe. Just like Fox Mulder - I want to believe - at this point, I just don't believe AC is clean.


...one Tour winner failed a control at the Tour [Phloyd]...the rest as you say is, at the moment, just scandal...

you should still believe...it's a wonderful sport...

re AC.......

look, the UCI has changed their approach...look at how they are targeting suspicious riders...and they are doing more than just screening tests too...I bet that they have already controlled AC's Tour samples looking for exoT and rEPO...and we would know if they found it because LNDD would have leaked it to Damian Ressoit at L'Equipe...


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## CFBlue (Jun 28, 1999)

007biker1 said:


> you know, it's sad to me that .... I still believe you are innocent until proven guilty (which means I belive AC is clean)


Innocent until proven guilty blahblahblah. Why are criminal suspects detained then? Do they let suspected (ie, innocent?) criminals walk the street because they haven't been proven guilty yet? Yes there is bail but that is only granted to those who are deemed to not be a threat to others or likely to go on the fly.

I understand your point and felt the same way until my 100th or so doping scandal. The way I read your post now is: Innocent until proven guilty (which means I'll keep my head in the sand)

I am sick to death of dopers and other cheats. I will personally be affected if Tailwind sports can't find a new title sponsor, admittedly I'm a long way down the food chain but it still sucks to know that what you love to do is being negatively impacted by a bunch of greedy a-holes. Whatever the concequences for me personally, I want the cheats gone ASAP.

My first ever internet rant. Thanks for reading.


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## elviskennedy (Aug 29, 2006)

"Contador said he would seek legal action against anyone making defamatory accusations in the future."

Contador is a fraud. A cheating doper. He is bad for cycling.

There you go Alberto - sue me. Just remember, a lawsuit would allow me to depose you, your doctors, your ex-girlfriends, etc. It would allow me access to medical records as well as samples of your blood, spit and pee. Bring it on cheater-boy! It would be fun.

www.elviskennedy.com


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## bonkmiester (Sep 23, 2005)

hayaku said:


> Innocent until proven guilty blahblahblah. Why are criminal suspects detained then? Do they let suspected (ie, innocent?) criminals walk the street because they haven't been proven guilty yet? Yes there is bail but that is only granted to those who are deemed to not be a threat to others or likely to go on the fly.
> 
> I understand your point and felt the same way until my 100th or so doping scandal. The way I read your post now is: Innocent until proven guilty (which means I'll keep my head in the sand)
> 
> ...


...welcome to the Rant Club...:thumbsup:

srlsy, can you explain how/why this affects you personally?...might help "keep it real" for those of us for whom this is just an abstract distraction..
TIA
b0nk
[just curious, not being negative]


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

We may have reached the tipping point.

When a team that has won the TDF 8 out of the last 9 years can't get a sponsor (and we all know it's because of the cloud of doping suspision), the money is now telling the sport to clean up really.....not just the lip service that has been done previously. 

Can the sport change enough to retain sponsors? Will be interesting to watch.

Over the next 3 years, either, former Disco riders will either fnot perform as well, or if they perform as well will test positive or be caught some other way......just like they have in the past. AC included.

Len


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## texass4 (Oct 13, 2005)

Why does it seem like cycling fans desperately want to see a sport free from cheats, yet no one will rest until every last member of the peloton is found guilty? Ugh. Don Henley said it best:

I make my living off the evening news
Just give me something-something I can use
People love it when you lose,
They love dirty laundry

Kick em when theyre up
Kick em when theyre down
Kick em when theyre up
Kick em when theyre down
Kick em when theyre up
Kick em when theyre down
Kick em when theyre up
Kick em all around

You dont really need to find out whats going on
You dont really want to know just how far its gone
Just leave well enough alone
Eat your dirty laundry

Kick em when theyre up
Kick em when theyre down
Kick em when theyre up
Kick em when theyre down

Kick em when theyre up
Kick em when theyre down
Kick em when theyre stiff
Kick em all around

Dirty little secrets
Dirty little lies
We got our dirty little fingers in everybodys pie
We love to cut you down to size
We love dirty laundry

We can do the innuendo
We can dance and sing
When its said and done we havent told you a thing
We all know that crap is king
Give us dirty laundry!


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Len J said:


> We may have reached the tipping point.


Many factors from almost all directions point towards a real effort to have a cleaner sport. Spain is still a firm doping stronghold. Portugal probably too but in the grand scheme of cycling they matter very little. Some event or person needs to crack Spain.

The UCI as always remains relatively weak, but improving, on the anti-doping front. It is unfortunate that the PT bust-up keeps them from fully joining with the organizers that seem more interested than any entity in having a clean sport.

Look on the bright side only about 25% of this year's TdF riders showed signs of "blood doping" which is much, much lower than a few years ago and the free-for-all going on in recent Vueltas.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*Maybe.........*



texass4 said:


> Why does it seem like cycling fans desperately want to see a sport free from cheats, yet no one will rest until every last member of the peloton is found guilty? !


because the vast majority are guilty?

Looks like sh!t
Smells like sh!t
Tastes like sh!t
Sure glad I didn't walk in it!

Sometimes a duck is just a duck.

len


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

I just think it is quite sad that a resonable person could resonably draw the conclusion that a winner must have cheated or they wouldn't have won. This is a very messed up sport right now.


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## BAi9302010 (Mar 7, 2002)

Maybe not TDF winners, but Grand Tours winners nonetheless, the two (former) team leaders of his former team, Heras & Vino, were busted for doping along with several other team mates. Apparently there are documents taken from Fuentes' office that show that AC was doping while riding under Saiz and he's trying to make us believe he didn't touch anything when pretty much every other rider from the team at the time who had any kind of success was or has been busted. I find it hard to believe that he was the poor ignorant kid sitting alone in his hotel room the night before the race while his peers were in the room next door injecting micro doses of EPO or whatever else they do.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

MB1 said:


> I just think it is quite sad that a resonable person could resonably draw the conclusion that a winner must have cheated or they wouldn't have won. This is a very messed up sport right now.


This is either straight-up ignorance or willful ignorance. There a several reasons not to believe Contador when he says he's clean. Pretending the only reason people think Contador doped is because of his success is just silly. I think Valverde and Davis doped too.


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## 007biker1 (Mar 22, 2007)

It's wishful ignorance if you will Mr. Barry. The sports is in a sad state right now (professionally). I mean, a team with a pedigree of 8 tour wins couldn't get a sponsor! I think a lot of people think AC doped because of his success. Now, when you see someone do something amazing, the immediate question is "is he/she clean?" Sad day.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

007biker1 said:


> Now, when you see someone do something amazing, the immediate question is "is he/she clean?" Sad day.


Well we all know the reason, right? Because for the last decade almost all of those doing the amazing feats and many more just earning their daily bread have been caught doping. It is almost to the point now that it is easier to name the big names of the last decade that remain untarnished than it is to name the known dopers and the implicated ones.

My point simply is that in AC's case it goes far beyond his amazing feat so lets not pretend that is the only reason or even the primary reason lots of people think he was doping.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

Dwayne Barry said:


> This is either straight-up ignorance or willful ignorance. There a several reasons not to believe Contador when he says he's clean. Pretending the only reason people think Contador doped is because of his success is just silly. I think Valverde and Davis doped too.


My point is that it is quite resonable to draw the conclusion the the winner must have doped and that is very sad. It doesn't even matter who the winner is they will still rightly be under suspicion of doping.

BTW I am of the point of view that top athletes have always pushed the limits and always will. Cycling is going through the very hard process of redefining downwards what those limits are. As soon as the new limits are resonably defined the athletes will push them again. That is just the way it is.


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

MB1 said:


> It doesn't even matter who the winner is they will still rightly be under suspicion of doping.


I think that had Cadel won there would be far less if any suggestions that he wasn't clean. Aside from an apparently debunked rumor that he'd worked with ferrari, I've never seen any suggestion he's currently or recently doped and lots of chatter to the contrary.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

Is it really a press "conference" when you can't ask any questions?


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## harlond (May 30, 2005)

blackhat said:


> I think that had Cadel won there would be far less if any suggestions that he wasn't clean. Aside from an apparently debunked rumor that he'd worked with ferrari, I've never seen any suggestion he's currently or recently doped and lots of chatter to the contrary.


He had no truly bad days during the TdF, and he finished second. What more do you need?


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

People are not accusing AC because he won, he was suspected before the Tour.


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## SlowBikeRacer (Nov 7, 2005)

I'm waiting for the Documents to be translated from Spanish to German to French and then to English. I hope they use a good fun translation program like Google or BableFish. 
Any native Spanish speakers out there that have seen the original documents? Can you you show us the part that shows what people used?


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2007)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Look on the bright side only about 25% of this year's TdF riders showed signs of "blood doping" which is much, much lower than a few years ago and the free-for-all going on in recent Vueltas.


That was David Millar's estimate as well (think I read it in Bicycling Mag). He said something to the effect that only about 25% of the pro-peleton is still doping, apparently a marked decrease from past years.

I wonder though, with Cat2s doing 'roids and Juniors with HCTs of 46 :shocked:


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

SlowBikeRacer said:


> I'm waiting for the Documents to be translated from Spanish to German to French and then to English. I hope they use a good fun translation program like Google or BableFish.
> Any native Spanish speakers out there that have seen the original documents? Can you you show us the part that shows what people used?


Why bother? Facts are useless here.


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## bonkmiester (Sep 23, 2005)

mohair_chair said:


> Why bother? Facts are useless here.


...it is sort of like cycling in circles...


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

bonkmiester said:


> ...it is sort of like cycling in circles...


Well, they do call it "cycling".


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

bonkmiester said:


> ...it is sort of like cycling in circles...


at least you can get somewhere with this one:

<img src=https://onondagacountyparks.com/images/NPonconfencebike.jpg>


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

re guilty until proven innocent, simple statistical reasoning (base rates or prior probabilities) alone are a reasonable basis for suspecting a tour podium finisher. Since 1995, the probability of being a doper given being a podium finisher is between 65-83% depending on how you count (on another thread). 

In Contador's case, his name appears in OP, a strong reason to suspect him.

His performance was suspicious. Sure, we could give him the climbing prowess. BUT when was the last time a 'pure' climber could time trial like that? Never as far as I can recall. Certainly Pantini, Virenque, Delgado etc couldn't.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

stevesbike said:


> re guilty until proven innocent, simple statistical reasoning (base rates or prior probabilities) alone are a reasonable basis for suspecting a tour podium finisher. Since 1995, the probability of being a doper given being a podium finisher is between 65-83% depending on how you count (on another thread).
> 
> In Contador's case, his name appears in OP, a strong reason to suspect him.
> 
> His performance was suspicious. Sure, we could give him the climbing prowess. BUT when was the last time a 'pure' climber could time trial like that? Never as far as I can recall. Certainly Pantini, Virenque, Delgado etc couldn't.


And he rode for a guy up until this year who was known as a contral freak that we know from Zulle and Jaksche was running a team with systematic doping (who coincidentally Bruyneel rode for and hired a bunch of their doctors at Postal/Disco) who then went and got caught red handed in the whole OP thing where pretty much most of his big riders were named.


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

007biker1 said:


> It's wishful ignorance if you will Mr. Barry. The sports is in a sad state right now (professionally). I mean, a team with a pedigree of 8 tour wins couldn't get a sponsor! I think a lot of people think AC doped because of his success. Now, when you see someone do something amazing, the immediate question is "is he/she clean?" Sad day.


If it makes you feel any better Barry Bonds, the Williams sisters, and every other top athlete in every sport is doped too. The last 2 presidents were coke heads and 2 of the last 3 were chronic anti-psychotic med users. We're talking about humans here, it ain't pretty at the top.


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## coinstar2k (Apr 17, 2007)

bonkmiester said:


> ...one Tour winner failed a control at the Tour [Phloyd]...



For heaven's sake...his name is Floyd. People can't even get that fact right about him.


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## blackhat (Jan 2, 2003)

coinstar2k said:


> For heaven's sake...his name is Floyd. People can't even get that fact right about him.



phonak+floyd=Phloyd.


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## bonkmiester (Sep 23, 2005)

add to that the incredibly fascinating & detailed scientific defense by Floyd, then *pH* is sort of a double entendre [at least in my silly mind ]


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## CFBlue (Jun 28, 1999)

bonkmiester said:


> ...welcome to the Rant Club...:thumbsup:
> 
> srlsy, can you explain how/why this affects you personally?...might help "keep it real" for those of us for whom this is just an abstract distraction..
> TIA
> ...


It goes Disco>Marco Polo>My team. I was hoping with my fingers, toes and eyes crossed to make the step to Marco Polo next year but when a team shuts down it crowds the market. All it takes for my door to close is for there to be no vacancies up top which is much more likely to happen when there's a bunch of Pro Tour guys looking for jobs, 25 guys from somewhere have to take a step down.

Also there's the sponsorship dollars which helps directly helps Marco Polo and indirectly helps my team with uniforms and things.

The boss is in the States now so hopefully he'll let us all know whats going to happen when he gets back...


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