# Canti or Disc Brake



## Crank-a-Roo (Mar 21, 2003)

I am buying a new 'cross bike for the upcoming racing season and this bike will also double as my winter training bike. I am not sure whether I should get disc brakes or canti brakes. I understand the obvious weight saving advantage for Cantis.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

I have disc brakes and I love them. But my brakes are hydraulic and my 'cross bike has a flat bar. I also race cross country on it. 

On thing to consider is wheels. I have a few road wheelsets around which would be an improvement on the cross bike, if it did not have discs and 135 spacing. So unless I invest in another wheelset I'm stuck with what I have. If I break a spoke my bike is out for a few days. I have no substitutes. 

On the other hand, if you have a few 29er mountain bikes in your quiver (and a few extra wheelsets) then disc will not ever be a problem.


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## SunnyinCO (Oct 26, 2010)

There's only been...oh maybe one or two threads on this subject recently. Sorry about that, seriously so many variables that will factor in your decision. My suggestion is to read some of the treads to help narrow down one or two factors that will push the decision on way or the other.


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## bikerector (Oct 31, 2012)

Since it's going to double as your winter training bike, I'll assume you're ride in snow. Disc brakes are better in the snow than canti's because they stay out of the road slop better. I like using a single speed for winter too, less to replace when winter's over and the drivetrain is rotted. I'm in Michigan though, other climates may not have as much snow and salted roads.

For racing, I don't know that there's a clear winner. I've run both, braking in a cx race is less important than stopping at a stop sign, ice build-up on rims can cause a problem with the latter for rim brakes especially with standard black (non-wet specific) canti pads.


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

Local Hero said:


> I have disc brakes and I love them. But my brakes are hydraulic and my 'cross bike has a flat bar. I also race cross country on it.
> 
> On thing to consider is wheels. I have a few road wheelsets around which would be an improvement on the cross bike, if it did not have discs and 135 spacing. So unless I invest in another wheelset I'm stuck with what I have. If I break a spoke my bike is out for a few days. I have no substitutes.
> 
> On the other hand, if you have a few 29er mountain bikes in your quiver (and a few extra wheelsets) then disc will not ever be a problem.


What kind of bike do you have?


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## ozzybmx (Jun 23, 2013)

I'm new to CX with a mtb background. Disc brakes were a no brainer for me but if nothing else other than to future proof your bike I would still go discs. 
I have never owned a road bike or cx with rim brakes and I am sure they work as well as discs and are lighter but as more manufacturers go disc brakes on their frames, the component makers will start producing lighter disc brakes.


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## davemess (Dec 26, 2008)

ozzybmx said:


> I have never owned a road bike or cx with rim brakes and I am sure they work as well as discs


With this quote is quite obvious that you haven't used canti's in cross. Some are just horrible at stopping (have two sets right now! Hello V-brake upgrade). Discs work better than most canti's (I might even say all, but know folks on here will freak out). 
I agree with what you said otherwise though.


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## bikerector (Oct 31, 2012)

Canti's are fine if setup right. Canti's on aluminum rims stop better than road calipers on carbon rims by a far margin. I never had problems with them stopping as long as I wasn't using crap brake pads in wet weather but they're inconsistent in sloppy conditions, especially winter. Disks seem to work the same most often. I would not recommend 140mm brake rotors, they stop worse than canti's in the dry and descents.

Not many negatives to discs compared to canti's though. Minor weight penalty that I think is easily offset by a stronger rear wheel because of the wider hub spacing. Also allows for more tire clearance aka mud clearance.


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## jroden (Jun 15, 2004)

the disc brakes make great sense for your application, it seems like you will have to pay a little more for a built bike and the weight will be a tad more. You won't be able to use 700c wheels you have lying around, but can use 29er mtb wheels. 

If I was buying a brand new bike to start out, clearly it would be a disc brake model.

If you end up racing, you may not want to wreck your nice race bike by riding it in the road salt all winter.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

cs1 said:


> What kind of bike do you have?


crux, this with gears


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

davemess said:


> with this quote is quite obvious that you haven't used canti's in cross. *when they are setup wrong* are just horrible at stopping (have two sets right now! Hello v-brake upgrade)


ftfy

hth


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## davemess (Dec 26, 2008)

Really? You're going to say that canti's have the same stopping power, consistency, modulation, and mud braking as disc breaks? Man, what have those mountain bikers been wasting their time with all these years......


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## ac/bc (Aug 28, 2006)

I come from a mtn bike background and I just started looking for my first CX bike. After riding quite a few bikes I can say that the road-disc brakes that are available stink compared to what we mtn bikers have. I have no reason to doubt that it will get better but I actually felt like some of the canti brakes were better. I'd go disc if you want to ride in the winter. At least in the future you'll have better options to upgrade too.


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## davemess (Dec 26, 2008)

WOW. Just got one of my linear pull brakes set up (TRP CX 8.4) and it has some serious stopping power. Can't wait to get the other one on there. Seeing a lot of people in the PNW going to linear pull. Maybe they're a happy medium between canti's and disc. Kind of a stop gap until discs become better and more mainstream.


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## SunnyinCO (Oct 26, 2010)

davemess said:


> WOW. Just got one of my linear pull brakes set up (TFP CRoss 8.4) and it has some serious stopping power. Can't wait to get the other one on there. Seeing a lot of people in the PNW going to linear pull. Maybe they're a happy medium between canti's and disc. Kind of a stop gap until discs become better and more mainstream.


Did you mean TRP 8.4? I just put one on my rear tire and keeping the canti on the front for the time being. The stopping is awesome and was an inexpensive upgrade. Also agree that disc is the future but right now, there are, I believe, many pro's on linear over disc when factoring cost, current availability and maintenance.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

ac/bc said:


> I come from a mtn bike background and I just started looking for my first CX bike. After riding quite a few bikes I can say that the road-disc brakes that are available stink compared to what we mtn bikers have. I have no reason to doubt that it will get better but I actually felt like some of the canti brakes were better. I'd go disc if you want to ride in the winter. At least in the future you'll have better options to upgrade too.


yeah, the mech hayes seen on a lot of midrange cross bikes really suck. Couple that with no neutral wheel support at races plus needing all of your wheels to have the same hubset, and i'm sticking with rim brakes.


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## davemess (Dec 26, 2008)

Yes sunny, just a typo. I'm impressed you have enough self control to have the other brake sitting there (as I'm assuming you can only buy them in pairs) and not install it. Seems like a bomber brake for CO, with it's mostly dry races and few that can have some steeper descents.


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## Crank-a-Roo (Mar 21, 2003)

Thanks for everyone's input.. I just ordered a Specialized Cruz Elite with Cantilever. It is because Specialized doesn't have my size, 46cm,with disc brakes anymore. The shop will also change out the cantilevers to linear pull brakes.

I could've bought a Norco threshold with Disc brakes, but the fit isn't ideal and the bike is heavier than the specialised. I rather have a lighter bike.

Without disc brakes, I am also able to use the wheelset that I bought last year.

I live in Vancouver BC and we don't get much snow at all. I just have to ride the bike in the rain and the nearby gravel roads (safer than riding on the street). I will just need to add fenders. Road Salt isn't a issue at all. If the roads are icy, I am better off stay home as Vancouverites don't know how to dry in that condition!


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## sslos (Aug 11, 2003)

Even though the OP decided on a bike (nice choice, btw,) and the subject has been covered before, I thought I'd share my thoughts on this subject.
When considering braking on a 'cross bike, don't forget just how small the contact patch is, and remember what your braking traction is on dirt or mud. 
I'm sticking with rim brakes, as I see no major advantage to rim brakes for me in the conditions I race and ride in.

Los


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## Raido (Nov 29, 2012)

I would say pretty obvious thing: cantis are great, if setup correctly, but they have some learning curve and require attention to setup and installation. You need:

1) Carefully choose a model of cantis (I'm using now mid-profile Genetic CX cantis and they are wonderful, although a bit heavy; tektro 720 never worked for me, shimano CX 70 maybe an option, but much more problematic with setup) and hardware - good front/rear brake hanger, straddle triangle matter as well.
2) Brake Pads - I've got good experience with Kool-Stop salmon compound and dual black-salmon compund.
3) Installation - requires as much attention as a previous points, with all this toe-in-ing etc. With small road-style pads I've never bothered myself a lot, with Genetic CX it just works fine  Koolstop Thinline have some sort of "auto-toe-in-ing".

So, if you master these points, you will find good setup for cantis, which will help to survive all the cross mud. At the end, from my point of view, it's easier to service cantis, then disc brakes.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 23, 2013)

Raido said:


> At the end, from my point of view, it's easier to service cantis, then disc brakes.


We own bikes for such a short time these days that the resale outweighs the serviceability of them. I will say "standards" lightly but i can see discs brakes getting lighter and lighter over the next 2 years which will a make rim brake bike unsaleable.... same way it went with MTB back in the mid 2000's.

YMMV but if you intend to keep the bike for a few yrs, go discs now and suck up the small weight penalty.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

ozzybmx said:


> We own bikes for such a short time these days that the resale outweighs the serviceability of them. I will say "standards" lightly but i can see discs brakes getting lighter and lighter over the next 2 years which will a make rim brake bike unsaleable.... same way it went with MTB back in the mid 2000's.
> 
> YMMV but if you intend to keep the bike for a few yrs, go discs now and suck up the small weight penalty.


ha, we'll see...


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## Crank-a-Roo (Mar 21, 2003)

ozzybmx said:


> I will say "standards" lightly but i can see discs brakes getting lighter and lighter over the next 2 years which will a make rim brake bike unsaleable.... same way it went with MTB back in the mid 2000's.
> .


Except most mountain bikers won't whine about increased in weight because their bikes weights from the upper 20's. Disc brakes are better for mountain bikes because of the longer and steeper downhills.


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## jct78 (Dec 12, 2011)

i'm building up a new race bike with TRP Hy/Rd and Easton ea90 XD wheels. 

my pit bike has avid ultimates and they work very well. we had some very muddy/wet races last year and they provided plenty of braking to stop my clyde frame from going through the tape.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

Crank-a-Roo said:


> Except most mountain bikers won't whine about increased in weight because their bikes weights from the upper 20's. Disc brakes are better for mountain bikes because of the longer and steeper downhills.


Race bikes are in the lower 20s...


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

I have generic mechanical shimano disc brakes on one bike and the TRP 8.4 mini's on another. Honestly, I'd say the stopping power is more-or-less equal. Not a huge difference in modulation. I'm not super picky about modulation though, so someone else might disagree. I like a firm feel to my brakes and a good stop when necessary in traffic.

I just installed the TRP's this summer, so not sure what my thoughts will be come winter. 

Discs are so much easier to set up, maintain, remove wheels... imho. Mechanical discs, that is; I hate hydraulics and will avoid them at all costs (others love them).


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## Corndog (Jan 18, 2006)

Crank-a-Roo said:


> Except most mountain bikers won't whine about increased in weight because *their bikes weights from the upper 20's. * Disc brakes are better for mountain bikes because of the longer and steeper downhills.


Most people racing XC and even trail riding aren't on bikes in the upper 20's# and up, as you suggest. I have friends with Fatbikes that weigh less than that!

My XC hard tail is under 19lbs, with pedals, bottle cage, and beefy (for racing) tires. My wife's is under 18lbs. My dual suspension, Specialized Epic 29er S-works was under 21.5lbs with similar tires. 

Discs will take over CX. The mfg's are going to force it upon everyone. In a few years, you will only be able to get super low end models with stock canti brakes or go to the custom route. Don't underestimate the need/desire of the bike companies to sell us "new and improved" crap every few years


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## JohnStonebarger (Jan 22, 2004)

Note to self: watch for used and NOS canti frames this Spring... Stock up now...


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

jct78 said:


> Easton ea90 XD wheels.


I've looked at those. Now my "budget" mind has me considering other options. 

Neuvation DK 500 T CXR Road Disk Set 1380 Gr - www.neuvationcycling.com

Summit 29 XC


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## Raido (Nov 29, 2012)

JohnStonebarger said:


> Note to self: watch for used and NOS canti frames this Spring... Stock up now...


Good point


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

headloss said:


> Discs are so much easier to set up, maintain, remove wheels... imho. *Mechanical discs*, that is; I hate hydraulics and will avoid them at all costs (others love them).


:lol::lol::lol:
Now THAT was funny.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 23, 2013)

It just depends on what you are used to. Ive used a set of Hope X2 Pro over 4 different bikes now and all i have done is 2 x 30min bleeds and changed the pads twice (can be done on the trail with a multitool in 2 mins), surely you cant get much easier brakes than that to maintain.

As for bike weight, i own an 25lb fatbike running 4.8" tyres, a 19lb STEEL indy fab deluxe geared 29er and my 16.8lb SS. Theres not much difference between MTB's and Roadies these days.

7.6kg or 16.8lb Singlespeed.


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## headloss (Mar 3, 2013)

RRRoubaix said:


> Now THAT was funny.



I do what I can. 
Granted, it's often as simple as venting the reservoir, but I've adjusted hydraulics at least ten times already this summer on ten different bicycles due to excessive squealing. I prefer the option of manually controlling toe-in.



ozzybmx said:


> It just depends on what you are used to. Ive used a set of Hope X2 Pro over 4 different bikes now and all i have done is 2 x 30min bleeds and changed the pads twice (can be done on the trail with a multitool in 2 mins), surely you cant get much easier brakes than that to maintain.


I've had a bad run, personally... my first hydraulic disc bike (GF Piranha w/ m485) kept needing new pads due to leaks, not fixed under warranty, and my best guess is that the leaky area eventually gummed up enough to stop the problem.

I also find removing a cotter pin a bit of a pain to remove on the trail when I'm not carrying pliers. I just don't see the benefits of hydraulic, personally... while it's far too easy to contaminate the pads and end up with a bike sounding like a freight train. It's a love-it-or-hate-it technology.


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## Raido (Nov 29, 2012)

I have never got any problem with hydro-s (excepting Avid Juicy 3, complete waste of time and money), with mechanical discs (BB7 always), and V-brakes. Just maintaining canti-s (not V-brakes) is super-simple after you find good setup - they just don't require it, they tolerate wheels a bit out of true perfectly, if there is a problem, and fork chatter is managable )) (a bit of attention to braking surface of your rims is needed). Generalizing, in my opinion, for road and cross there is no real need for discs, from my point of view, pure bloody marketing and trying to extract money from the pockets ))


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