# Campy Bottom Bracket noise



## black cross (May 15, 2006)

I have an irritation noise on my new (300 miles) Giant with SR 11. It appears to be coming from my bottom bracket. Check out this video link,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keV4EdJlYo4

Thanks


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*thoughts...*

Do you know for sure that all of the proper steps were taken when the crank was installed? There are several threads on this topic that can be found with a search.

It takes about 5 minutes to take the center fixing bolt out and pull the crank arms off, so you can see what's going on. Do that and then repost.


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## black cross (May 15, 2006)

C-40, thanks. I am pretty sure that the installation was done properly by the LBS. The crank was removed and bearings seemed ok, but the noise on the video is not all the time. 
The mechanic/shop owner has worked on my Campy bikes in the past and seems to know what he is doing. I know he has worked on a similar frame and not had problems.
I did try to find threads on this topic but didn't find too much.

thanks


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

black cross said:


> C-40, thanks. I am pretty sure that the installation was done properly by the LBS. The crank was removed and bearings seemed ok, but the noise on the video is not all the time.
> The mechanic/shop owner has worked on my Campy bikes in the past and seems to know what he is doing. I know he has worked on a similar frame and not had problems.
> I did try to find threads on this topic but didn't find too much.
> 
> thanks


Are you sure that your LBS checked the face/spacing of your BB prior to installation? The Campag video spends 60% of its time doing just this, so I think it's quite important to check and make sure ...


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## black cross (May 15, 2006)

OJ, thanks, I'll mention it to the lbs. Could you send a like of the Campag video that shows the installation?


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

black cross said:


> OJ, thanks, I'll mention it to the lbs. Could you send a like of the Campag video that shows the installation?


Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT4qzevaOWo


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## black cross (May 15, 2006)

OJ, Thanks for the link


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## black cross (May 15, 2006)

Update on BB issue:

Actually the bottom bracket is a press fit, not a threaded.

I posted this on the Giant bike forum today as well.


HELP!, TCR SL/Campy bb noise 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have been dealing with this noise on my 2010 Giant TCR SL for over a year now. It will not appear all the time, but will on most rides. The LBS has visited with Campy and has installed the BB according to their recomendations. The BB has been replace as well. The noise will appear when both on the bike, or off. It will appear with the Zipp 404's or my factory Campy Scirocco wheels. 

My thought now is the frame. Is there anyway to check the lamination of the carbon fibers? Have my Doc xray it? 
Here is a link to view the noise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjqccUI6e9w

Thanks, any ideas?


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Hmm, really strange: So it seems you have that noise even when under exactly zero load. Do you also hear that noise when you take the chain off? If the chain is off the rings when you hear the noise, then we are 100% certain it's the crankset that's responsible. Next thing to do then is to take the cranks off, and spin the bearing outer shells by themselves. If those turn smoothly and evenly, then the next thing I would do is check if the cups are aligned. If somehow your BB is messed up (threads not at a right angle, or worse), then that could explain your issue. Hard to diagnose remotely from there on out. You could consider getting a second opinion, from some other bike store (that is known to have some Campy experience).


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

black cross said:


> Update on BB issue:
> 
> Actually the bottom bracket is a press fit, not a threaded.
> 
> I posted this on the Giant bike forum today as well.


That press-fit part is an adapter, right? Does it meet the Campy spec? Was it installed correctly? 

The noise sounds terrible, but the crystal ball is fuzzy and you need to first tell us what you have checked and the steps that you took to install the entire BB system. 

Asking the Giant forum is a great idea, it could be a problem with the frame or the BB or the press-fit adapter.


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## black cross (May 15, 2006)

Prix, yes, the noise is there under zero load. I attempted to check it with the chain off on my last ride, hard to do by myself. I'll check that for sure. I believe the shop spun the bearing shells. I thought about alignment, not sure how to check it. No threads as it is press in. I am tempted to take it to another shop, don't know if there is really a Campy expert in the area. - Kansas

OJ, I believe it is a campy part. The shop visited with the supplier to confirm it's installation. I am leaning towards the frame as being the problem. Lifetime warranty (I believe) But just thinking there would be finger pointing between the frame and component companies. 

Thanks all


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

black cross said:


> No threads as it is press in.


I kind of read over this the first time, but are you telling me that your bearing cups are not Campy-original? That might explain your issue. The only way I know to properly install a Campy crankset is using their cups. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Campy sells a press-in BB30 adapter, which would then allow you to screw on the standard Campy cups. Is that what you have?

In any case, the fact that you are having this kind of noise without load in my mind leaves only two possible explanations: Shot bearings, which I believe you pretty much ruled out (you can't have properly installed bearings produce that kind of noise without anybody immediately noticing when checking the bearings), or some serious alignment issues with those bearings. Well, or a bent crankset spindle, or something similarly serious. If you take the cranks off, and then reassemble them off the bike (put the center bolt in and tighten), do you get a nice, straight spindle?


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## black cross (May 15, 2006)

The cups are Campy. This from a 'Bicycling' magazine article, it is not BB30 - 
Giant also incorporated two new integration features beyond its seatmast. First is an oversize bottom-bracket design called BB86, which fits directly into the 86.5mm-wide bottom-bracket shell.
The bearings are not shot, less than 2,000 miles on the bike and they have been replaced once, hopefully to correct the problem. 
I am pretty sure the spindle is straight, will confirm it.
Thanks


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## black cross (May 15, 2006)

I see where Campy recommends using their tool to correctly install the cups, if not the warranty is void,
http://www.cbike.com/09campagnolout-bb140toolforos-fitintegratedcups.aspx

I am not sure if this tool was used or not.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

black cross said:


> I see where Campy recommends using their tool to correctly install the cups, if not the warranty is void,


Yep, I can see why. If you press those things in "by hand", without some proper guiding device, misalignment is pretty much guaranteed. If that is the case, it's your LBS who has to take the blame.

P.S.: Don't you just love those "innovations" frame manufacturers come up with? 

P.P.S.: You might be able to detect uneven friction when spinning the cranks by hand, with the chain off the rings. Also, from your video it sounds like the noise always happens at roughly the same crank angle (not sure if that is just a coincidence). If that is the case, it's a sure sign of misaligned cups. Or a bent spindle, but I agree that that is extremely unlikely. Those things don't bend easily.


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## black cross (May 15, 2006)

I believe initally the cups were installed with a clamp of some type. I know he built another bike using Shimano parts, didn't have the problem I don't belive. 
I think the shop will stand behind the issue. It's the owner that has been working on the bike. 
Yes, those 'innovations' can be frustrating sometimes.
The noise is at the same spot each time, may be misaligned cups.

Next issue is , how many times can the frame take the cups being taken out/pressed in?


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

black cross said:


> Next issue is , how many times can the frame take the cups being taken out/pressed in?


Excellent question, no idea. Maybe it's not a big deal, maybe it is. If it is, then a new frame would be appropriate. Also, if you've been riding the bike for 12 months like that, that didn't exactly help the life of those bearings, either. Once you get those cups properly aligned, a new set of bearings should be installed as well. 

I'm not sure what I would do, or ask the LBS owner to do. It all depends. Your call.

P.S.: But, honestly, the fact that they were not able to diagnose this issue within a full year doesn't exactly inspire a whole lot of confidence in that particular store. While it's difficult to figure this out remotely, I'll bet you it would take me a few hours at the very most to figure out what the problem is, in particular given the fact that your issue is not at all minor. That kind of noise points to something being seriously off, and that should not be hard to find.


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## black cross (May 15, 2006)

Thanks for your time Prix


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

black cross said:


> Thanks for your time Prix


My pleasure. And it's "Pirx"...


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

black cross said:


> I believe initally the cups were installed with a clamp of some type. I know he built another bike using Shimano parts, didn't have the problem I don't belive.
> I think the shop will stand behind the issue. It's the owner that has been working on the bike.
> Yes, those 'innovations' can be frustrating sometimes.
> The noise is at the same spot each time, may be misaligned cups.
> ...


If I understand correctly, you have two separate things: One is an adapter for BBxx that gets pressed onto your BBxx and makes it look like a regular threaded BB. Second is/are the Campy BB cups that threads to a threaded BB. 

Pirx thinks that the Campy BB cups were not installed correctly. So it could be as simple as removing these cups and re-installing. Assuming the threads of the adapter were not damaged. Else you have to replace the adapter. 

Anyway, if you have a spare Italian threaded BB bike, remove the Campy BB/crankset, install them on spare bike, convince yourself that the problem is with Giant and/or your LBS.


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## black cross (May 15, 2006)

Sorry, 'Pirx' does sound better.


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## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

Amazing the amount of misinformation here, the Giant is BB86, Campy offers press fit cups to utilize this bb interface. If you pressed them in by hand you are either Superman or you have the wrong adaptor cups. I used a headset press, my Campy crank works fine. I didn't watch the video, but scrolling through the comments it becomes clear that people answering don't know what BB86 vs. BB30 vs. conventionally threaded bb as they relate to installing a Campy crankset.


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## black cross (May 15, 2006)

When you get a minute, could you look at the video and see if you have any idea what the noise is? 
Thanks


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

black cross said:


> When you get a minute, could you look at the video and see if you have any idea what the noise is?
> Thanks


Just to make sure, did you already verify that the LBS did not skip any steps, such as making sure that the wave washer is there, and the bolt was torqued correctly? 

And since you use SR11, you are also using the SR11-specific BB cups, right? SR uses its own SR-specific type of cups, all others use a different type. 

As C-40 said a long time ago, it takes minutes to un-install and re-install the crankset and BB cups. It's well worth it to repeat the steps. And while you're at it, watch the official Campagnolo installation video and make sure you go through the same steps. 

If the noise is still there, then it's likely to be the frame itself that has a problem (or two, or three). 

Anyway, for any kind of noise or other bike issues, the strategy should be to isolate possible causes by systematically examining the specs and the installation procedure. If your LBS doesn't do this, and jumps into conclusions, I'd ask for my warranty and go elsewhere ...


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## natedg200202 (Sep 2, 2008)

orange_julius said:


> If I understand correctly, you have two separate things: One is an adapter for BBxx that gets pressed onto your BBxx and makes it look like a regular threaded BB.


No. The campy adaptors don't make it look like a threaded BB - it is actually a replacement for the cups - see the pictures in this link:

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=32015

Not sure if this is what was used on this particular setup.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

natedg200202 said:


> No. The campy adaptors don't make it look like a threaded BB - it is actually a replacement for the cups - see the pictures in this link:
> 
> http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=32015
> 
> Not sure if this is what was used on this particular setup.


Yes, Mr. Scary was right, it pays to actually know what we are talking about, see also here. So, in this case the cups are simply pressed into the BB86 shell. Clearly that is an operation that requires quite a bit of care, hence black cross' reference to a Campy statement saying that the crankset warranty will be void if the cups aren't pressed in with the proper tool.


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## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

It still creaks when you stop turning the crank at the end of the video (I swear I still heard it over the wind), what makes you think it's the BB? Considering the sound appears to be made from some type of inexing movement I'd look at the rear wheel. 

BTW, lose the old Trek gloves if you are riding a Giant. Lack of attention to detail sums up about 90% of the issues people have with their bikes.


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## black cross (May 15, 2006)

I changed the wheels and the noise still appears. It does appear that the noise is there at the end of the video. I need to check it without the chain. 
The trek gloves are being worn by a friend on a 20 yr old oclv trek. I'm holding the bike and filming.
Thanks


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## ultimobici (Jul 16, 2005)

black cross said:


> I changed the wheels and the noise still appears. It does appear that the noise is there at the end of the video. I need to check it without the chain.
> The trek gloves are being worn by a friend on a 20 yr old oclv trek. I'm holding the bike and filming.
> Thanks


Has the shop removed the cranks and checked that the cups are actually parallel by measuring with a vernier across the outside edges of the cups? If they are fractionally out then you'll have the noise you hear in the videos. 

I have to say I am amazed that this has gone on for as long as it has. If the shop supplied the pars and/or the frame they should have solved this last spring.


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

:idea: Put in a call to Phil Wood


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## vassili (Jan 9, 2006)

Sorry for my english, but I hope you will understand me.
The new Giant's did not like a Campy stuff. First of all, Campagnolo didn't make their BB 86 press fit cups properly. This you will find, when you remove the Crank and compare, how the standart Campy cups sits perfectly on the crank bearings and how the press fit cups fееls loose, so you can fееl the play between cups and bearings. I make a precise measurement, and find, that the new regular cups are exactly 37 mm, while new press fit cups are 37.005 mm in diameter. So clicking sound is common issue with this setup.
But there is another problem. I find, that on my Giant Advanced TCR SL i was able to remove the press fit cups by hand. I can't believe, when i extract them with one finger. The cups were so loose, that there is a sign of rotation on the cups and in the BB shell, so cups make this terrible sound. I glued them using Loctite 641. When I glued them, i used a press tool to make sure, that they will be perfectly parallel. The loud sound disappeared, and time to time i grease bearings to kill the tik-tak clicking noise, because of fake press fit cups.


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## black cross (May 15, 2006)

Vassili, what you mention makes cense. I think my shop did loctite the cups in place, I'll confirm that. The noise has pretty much gone away, although on Sunday I could hear the noise, but not near like it had been. I had torqued the chain ring bolts, 1 seemed a little loose, not coming apart, just not as tight as the rest of the bolts.

What about using FSA crank and bottom bracket? I would like to keep it all campy, but with this issue, I would hate to have this as a maintenance issue.
I did make a call to Phil Wood and they do not offer such a bottom bracket.

Thanks again to all.


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

:wink5: What I meant about Phil Wood, was to ask them about their old fashioned Ti axle bottom bracket. Apologies for the sarcasm, but no way would I change out one of those Phil bottom brackets for these under-engineered outboard cups things.


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