# Epq/c59



## mapeiboy (Oct 31, 2007)

Is it true that EPQ/C59 for 2011/12 tubes are created in taiwan and ship to Italy for assembly and paint . Does it mean there is no more truely made in italy bike frame from colnago .


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## icsloppl (Aug 25, 2009)

> Is it true that EPQ/C59 for 2011/12 tubes are created in taiwan and ship to Italy for assembly and paint .


No. Toray is Japanese.



> Does it mean there is no more truely made in italy bike frame from colnago .


Pretty much.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

A friend of mine is a Carbon Fiber specialist ( he worked for Ferrari and BMW Sauber ), he is Italian and a rider so we discussed this specific subject.

He explained me that pretty much the only producers left of high end Carbon Fiber in Europe is in one in England which production is mostly dedicated to the military sector and ATR in Italy who is now concentrating in producing for the Auto, Moto, Sailing Aerospace and Racing industries.

The quality levels of those 2 producers where always high due to the high grade resin they employ on the carbon, but also it renders it very expensive for applications like bike frames or components.

Torayca is a japanese producer with a similar degree of quality but at a lower cost. So when the european producers shifted their attention to the more profitable sectors for them ( bike frames is not one of them ) the quality italian makers turned to torayca.

Torayca carbon has a lower cost while mantaining a high degree of quality, you can't say the same with the cheaper taiwanese and the cheapeast chinese carbon fiber.

He also told me the chinese carbon focus is the price and quantity and not the quality BTW.

So in this case those Colnagos and also Pinas etc, use the best quality carbon avaliable in the market for their applications in the same way as they use other raw materials ( steel, plastic, etc ) that don't have to be 100% sourced or made in Italy.

that is fine with me.

with all that said I am happy with my ATR carbon colnagos


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## Ronde (Jun 5, 2011)

Do you happen to know when Colnago switched from ATR to Torayca, was it perhaps after the C40 or C50?


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## gun2head (Sep 3, 2006)

Ronde said:


> Do you happen to know when Colnago switched from ATR to Torayca, was it perhaps after the C40 or C50?


I believe after those models. Not sure if it started with C59 or not. One of the more knowledgeable board members will have to chime in.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

I think the EPS is already Torayca Carbon.


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## 27davidson (Feb 9, 2006)

The 2010 C50's were built with Toray tubes.


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## Raymond8Pistons (Jun 24, 2002)

Does anyone know if the 2009 EPS frames were made with ATR or Toray carbon tubes?


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## mriddle (Nov 16, 2005)

*Same issue for me...*

I had a 2006 C-50 in 54S EITA that I really loved riding. In a weak moment I sold the frame sometime in 2009. This year I decided to purchase a new Colnago, wasn't sure which model...Loved the C-59 but wasn't crazy about the paint options. Liked the EPS in the PR82 and nearly bought one but didn't. Then I started reading that Colnago was no longer using ATR, no longer had Italian threaded BB. 

Searched for several months and finally found a NOS 2008 C-50 in my size (57 traditional ST02) and bought it immediately. I love the C-59/EPS/EPQ/M10 and have no doubt that the quality is first rate, just not what I wanted. I'm 47 and mainly ride long distances, comfort and performance mix is perfect for me. Just can't beat a C-50...


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## gun2head (Sep 3, 2006)

I gotta second mriddle's C50 ride observations for us old farts!

Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt


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## Turf (Feb 17, 2005)

*Third*

I have to agree (as another old fart). I've bought and sold several bikes since purchasing a C50 almost 8 years ago. I'll never sell it. It is still my go-to bike for "epic rides".


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

Turf said:


> I have to agree (as another old fart). I've bought and sold several bikes since purchasing a C50 almost 8 years ago. I'll never sell it. It is still my go-to bike for "epic rides".


But how is the C50 against the C40?  I've read a lot of comments from folks that have owned both and it seemed more than half the folks that have had both, preferred the C40.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

The C40 is softer for sure, I feel the front flexing when climbing off the saddle. 

No wonder it did so well on the cobbled and long classics where you had to be still fresh to win after 5-6 hours on the bike.

It is indeed not a climber's or sprinter's bike.

Funny how the modern builders trumpet so much mumbo jumbo about how they built in comfort on the bikes like the spec roubaix etc, but the C40 had it nailed perfectly well one decade before.

That said I still prefer my C50, I only wish it had the same paintjob as the C40


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## icsloppl (Aug 25, 2009)

Ride-Fly said:


> But how is the C50 against the C40?  I've read a lot of comments from folks that have owned both and it seemed more than half the folks that have had both, preferred the C40.


IMO much depends on how tall and heavy you are. In smaller frames, the C-40 will feel wonderful to a lighter rider. The C-50's additional stiffness is superior in larger sizes.

I'm 5'11" 155lbs and have a 58cm C-50. I've ridden C-40's. The C-50 works better for me.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

Salsa_Lover said:


> The C40 is softer for sure, I feel the front flexing when climbing off the saddle.


That is when I feel the front end flex and really notice the limitations of the 1" steerer: when I stand up and sprint while on a up grade. I don't feel it flex when diving into turns or on descents which to me is more critical and disconcerting. I love the smoothness of the C40 and really can't believe how plush it rides. 

Anyhow, sorry for the veering off the OP's topic. I don't have a problem that the carbon tubes arent Italian ATR. I would love a EPS or EPQ or C59!! That being said, I do like knowing that my C40, & Ext C were made in Italy with ATR carbon. I also like knowing that my Fondriest Top Carbon was made in Italy with Minardi (still ATR carbon tubes??)  

My next bike (may penultimate??) will be a variant of Colnago's latest carbon creation. Unless, Colnago goes the way of Pinarello- complete Asian production.


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## Evil Laugh (Oct 9, 2009)

Salsa_Lover said:


> The C40 is softer for sure, I feel the front flexing when climbing off the saddle.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how the modern builders trumpet so much mumbo jumbo about how they built in comfort on the bikes like the spec roubaix etc, but the C40 had it nailed perfectly well one decade before.


 I've owned a c40 hp and a Cannondale synapse and rode both with da cl24 wheels. The newer bike is way lighter, stiffer and smoother.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Ride-Fly said:


> That is when I feel the front end flex and really notice the limitations of the 1" steerer: when I stand up and sprint while on a up grade. I don't feel it flex when diving into turns or on descents which to me is more critical and disconcerting. I love the smoothness of the C40 and really can't believe how plush it rides.
> 
> Anyhow, sorry for the veering off the OP's topic. I don't have a problem that the carbon tubes arent Italian ATR. I would love a EPS or EPQ or C59!! That being said, I do like knowing that my C40, & Ext C were made in Italy with ATR carbon. I also like knowing that my Fondriest Top Carbon was made in Italy with Minardi (still ATR carbon tubes??)
> 
> My next bike (may penultimate??) will be a variant of Colnago's latest carbon creation. Unless, Colnago goes the way of Pinarello- complete Asian production.


How do you compare your C40 to the Extreme-C ?

I stripped down my Extreme C, sold the wheels and DA group, and have the frame unbuilt, I have been thinking in build it again on Campagnolo Record and get some Hyperons, but have not yet decided. decisions, decisions....


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

Evil Laugh said:


> I've owned a c40 hp and a Cannondale synapse and rode both with da cl24 wheels. The newer bike is way lighter, stiffer and smoother.


So which bike was newer?  just messin with ya Evil. 

But on the serious side, you sound like you are experiencing a bit of the "recency effect". 

How light is the Synapse frame? My 2002 C40 with Record 11 gruppo, Reynolds Attack wheels, Keo Blade CroMos & no stupid-light parts weighs exactly 16.5 lbs. 

I find it hard to believe that they Synapse is way lighter and smoother. Stiffer... I can believe. But since I've not ridden a Synapse, I'm not gonna raise the BS flag on you.  From my own anecdotal experience, I can definitvely say that among all the bikes I own and tried, the C40 is noticably the smoothest.


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## Evil Laugh (Oct 9, 2009)

I don't know about the frame, built up with force, a little red I crudely weighed the bike at just over 7kg. The c40 was built up with record 10 and carbon finishing kit. I never weighed the c40 but it felt and rode a fair bit heavier. I bought the c40 a few months after selling the synapse which was a really nice bike but not my cuppa tea and I also didn't like SRAM and couldn't be bothered rebuilding the cannondale again. 

At this point I went looking for a new bike and being somewhat obsessed with the ride qualities of frames and wanting to be sure of what I was buying, always tested with my own dura ace wheels and Vittoria tyres at 90/95. The synapse is definitely a lot smoother than the c40 which for the record was an hp with star fork. It's the best bike I've ridden in that respect just a pure velvet ride. 

In this period I tried an eps and c59 having had my head turned by a sarroni Colnago a year previous. I would put the eps as a smoother ride than the c40 also. People I've spoken to can't believe this but hey, that was my experience. The c59 was so alive and engaging and exactly what I'd dreamed a race bike could be like and more, so in the end that is what I've ordered, now awaiting a lovely gloss carbon 56 trad. 

Im sure you guys love your c40s but against some of the modern carbon bikes they don't compete. I'll agree there's a lot of drivel spouted by bike companies mainly centring around this current "sportive" trend in the uk. It has people clamouring to buy this magic machine that will give them all day comfort when likely a good fitting and some nice tyres at reasonable pressure would be much more likely to do so.


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