# discovery channel adopts floyd landis TT position...



## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Saw some of the Tour de Georgia on VS.. 

Looks like Levi and Janez have raised their bars up.. Didn't see Tommy D.

Levi was almost resting his chin on his arms.


----------



## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*These fads...*



bas said:


> Saw some of the Tour de Georgia on VS..
> 
> Looks like Levi and Janez have raised their bars up.. Didn't see Tommy D.
> 
> Levi was almost resting his chin on his arms.


These old fads come and go of course. There was lots of folks doing this position about, oh, 10 years ago or so I think? It does appear to be more aero for some folks according to their wind tunnel testing.


----------



## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

I am I only one who thinks it'd be cool if no TT bikes were allowed?


----------



## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

probably


----------



## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

I figured as much.


----------



## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

Pablo said:


> I am I only one who thinks it'd be cool if no TT bikes were allowed?


Two of us. Actually, it wouldn't bother me if they dumped the TT from stage racing all together. - TF


----------



## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

I was kind of thinking the same thing, but I am on the fence.

At the protour level, since everyone has them anyway, it's not so big a deal, but it is the one part of amateur stage racing where the guy with money can beat up the guy without it.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Pablo said:


> I am I only one who thinks it'd be cool if no TT bikes were allowed?


let's get rid of some other modern fads as well. Say, clip pedals and deraillers. That way we can get some racing as it was intended.


----------



## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

That's clearly what I was (not) advocating. I'm not some nostalgia-ridden luddite, I'm only 27, after all. I love clipless pedals and deraillers (except on my track bike). It was something I was throwing out there. 

I understand that this raises real questions about the definition of bikes and components, not to mention enforcement issues and how this would affect the technological development of cycling. 

It just sort of seems like, even at the pro level, the richer teams get a real advantage from expensive TT bikes and wind tunnel time. I'm also not wild about having two completely different bikes for the same race. 

Look, I don't really know or have a solid opinion on it. It was just an idea.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

a) the pro teams got their bikes sponsored. 
b) As of late 2006, David Zabrietski (sp) had not done any wind tunnel testing. I have no idea if he has done it since but he seems to be doing fine without it. 
Is there examples of riders that have spent years trying to improve their TT abilities and then only have significant progress after wind tunnel testing?



Pablo said:


> That's clearly what I was (not) advocating. I'm not some nostalgia-ridden luddite, I'm only 27, after all. I love clipless pedals and deraillers (except on my track bike). It was something I was throwing out there.
> 
> I understand that this raises real questions about the definition of bikes and components, not to mention enforcement issues and how this would affect the technological development of cycling.
> 
> ...


----------



## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

den bakker said:


> a) the pro teams got their bikes sponsored.
> b) As of late 2006, David Zabrietski (sp) had not done any wind tunnel testing. I have no idea if he has done it since but he seems to be doing fine without it.
> Is there examples of riders that have spent years trying to improve their TT abilities and then only have significant progress after wind tunnel testing?


Well, why stop with the current TT bikes. Why not go to recumbents and get it over with. - TF


----------



## mh3 (Mar 8, 2006)

Argentius said:


> At the protour level, since everyone has them anyway, it's not so big a deal, but it is the one part of amateur stage racing where the guy with money can beat up the guy without it.


I feel pretty much the same way, let the pro's do what they want, but keep it out of the developmental ranks. Pro tour and a few continental teams may have sponsers willing to provide the latest thing to teams, but not many amateurs have that luxury. I think it's wrong whenever an athlete is penalized because his pockets aren't as deep as someone elses. 

When it comes to riding against the clock, on the road or the track, deep dish and disc wheels make an appreciable difference, and they are some of the most expensive items out there. On the local level, riders can usually overcome the difference, but as soon as they move up to regional and national competition, the technology starts to become more of a deciding factor. I think this holds especially true with juniors. I feel fortunate to have raced in the pre-disc days on the track. I managed to win districts and regional competitions through hard work, not technology. There's no way my parents could have come up with the cash outlay required for a disc and deep section wheels, and when the difference between podium and pack fill is measured in seconds or less, it would have been a big disadvantage. Some detractors may say train harder, but that's not a real answer. JMHO. Time to enjoy the weather and ride.


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

TurboTurtle said:


> Well, why stop with the current TT bikes. Why not go to recumbents and get it over with. - TF


not enough pros can grow a decent beard


----------



## Cruzer2424 (Feb 8, 2005)

den bakker said:


> let's get rid of some other modern fads as well. Say, clip pedals and deraillers. That way we can get some racing as it was intended.



what if we just ditch the bike altogether and just run?


----------



## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

mh3 said:


> I think it's wrong whenever an athlete is penalized because his pockets aren't as deep as someone elses.


Take away all the fancy hardware and you'll complain about the guy who can afford a coach, while you can't, because his pockets are deeper. Take that away and you'll complain about the guy who can spend more time training instead of working or going to school, because his pockets are deeper. There are always going to be people who have more than you. There are always going to be people who don't have deep pockets but are willing to spend more on racing than other things, and to go into debt. It's life. Get over it.


----------



## mh3 (Mar 8, 2006)

mohair_chair said:


> Take away all the fancy hardware and you'll complain about the guy who can afford a coach, while you can't, because his pockets are deeper. Take that away and you'll complain about the guy who can spend more time training instead of working or going to school, because his pockets are deeper. There are always going to be people who have more than you. There are always going to be people who don't have deep pockets but are willing to spend more on racing than other things, and to go into debt. It's life. Get over it.



It's not a complaint, it's an opinion, if it's different then yours, that's fine. Thanks for pointing out what I'd complain about though, saves me the trouble of thinking for myself. You must be psychic. It would be nice to hear something constructive with some reasoning behind it though.


----------



## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

mh3 said:


> It's not a complaint, it's an opinion, if it's different then yours, that's fine. Thanks for pointing out what I'd complain about though, saves me the trouble of thinking for myself. You must be psychic. It would be nice to hear something constructive with some reasoning behind it though.


Actually, your post was more of a rant. Glad I could help you. Let me know if I can help in any other way.


----------



## CoLiKe20 (Jan 30, 2006)

den bakker said:


> not enough pros can grow a decent beard


I nominate this for post of the day.


----------



## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

TurboTurtle said:


> Well, why stop with the current TT bikes. Why not go to recumbents and get it over with. - TF



Make flags mandatory with sponsors logos on them.


----------



## Jaji (Nov 26, 2001)

mohair chair must have been one of those rich kids


----------



## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

The specifications the UCI sets for TT bikes are pretty stringent. I don't think any pro rider has a significant technological advantage in this area.

And they must keep the TT. It's my favorite part of racing. The true test of who has "ultimate power!"


----------



## footballcat (Jul 8, 2004)

david millar wind tunneled last year, ran the position all last year. He went back to his old position said it was more comfy. wind tunnel isnt all that matters


----------



## mikeyp123 (Mar 9, 2007)

they have even named that position... the preying mantis. Did you notice that his elbows were practically touching. Keeping the elbows that tight has to have some restriction on breathing, well maybe for normal people. Worked well for Levi.

Personally I hate those time trial bikes, they are a cruel and unusual punishment for the male reproductive anatomy.. but I'm a fan of the event. UCI really laid the smack down when the hour records were being broken year after year, do a wikipedia search, quite an interesting history.


----------



## Guest (May 2, 2007)

CoLiKe20 said:


> den bakker said:
> 
> 
> > not enough pros can grow a decent beard
> ...


+1 to that.


----------



## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

*preying LANDIS*

the preying mantis is illegal. i believe that is what the move the flying scotsman is about, right? 

when floyd modified and revived it, it was dubbed the "praying landis." caused quite the stir. UCI officials were so intent on making sure it wasnt the preying mantis, they even double checked his bike and made him change the handlebars, making him late to the start house in the tour last year.

many riders last year tried it. more riders this year.

as much debate as this gets, its cant beat my cobrastayle!











mikeyp123 said:


> they have even named that position... the preying mantis.


----------



## mikeyp123 (Mar 9, 2007)

weltyed said:


> the preying mantis is illegal. i believe that is what the move the flying scotsman is about, right?


Graeme Obree's later position was called the "Superman", not sure what his earlier tuck position was called. Neither look very mantis like. Check 'em out:
http://www.richardpettinger.com/cycling/graham_obree/graham_obrees_bikes/


----------



## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

Pablo said:


> I am I only one who thinks it'd be cool if no TT bikes were allowed?


No. It would be very cool.


----------



## wiles (Apr 17, 2005)

*What would be wrong with a stage race limited to road bikes?*

I love to race masters road races. I find myself in stage races because I love the road races. Bisbee last weekend was a great example. I don't want to shell out a couple of grand for another bike I will use a total of 30 or 40 minutes a year. It would be unfair to my family. 

A fair way to see who is really most talented and most fit and most experienced is to limit stage races to road racing bikes. I don't buy the slippery slope arguments that once this is done we will start limiting other tech advances. Let promoters promote TT's with TT bikes so the most expensive or latest advances can be showcased. Just don't make it a prerequisite for middle class road racers to be competitive in stage races. In the end, I think we would see more masters racers coming out.


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Dude you've obviously never seen*



den bakker said:


> not enough pros can grow a decent beard


Zabriskie in the offseason

he looks like a skinny Grizzly Adams

http://gallery.roadbikereview.com/showphoto.php?photo=10839&cat=500&ppuser=217326


----------



## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> Zabriskie in the offseason
> 
> he looks like a skinny Grizzly Adams
> 
> http://gallery.roadbikereview.com/showphoto.php?photo=10839&cat=500&ppuser=217326


that was one. 
Can you see Brajkovic covered in facial hair? 
What about Oscar "babyface" Sevilla. 
Or Linus "I made it to the podium girl forum" Gerdemann. 
And WTF do I try to reasoning a joke??
edit: rider name corrected.


----------

