# Sapim CX-Ray & DT Swiss Revolution spokes



## farva (Jun 24, 2005)

I've built up a few wheels using DT Swiss Revolutions & one set with Sapim CX-Rays. Weightwise they are very close & personally I can't tell any difference in ride quality between them. I see there is a small potential weight savings by using 100% sapims on the rear wheel vs a tad heavier DT comp / revolution combo. Revolutions go for about .70 each. Sapims are around $3.00 each. Am I missing something that justifies the sapims costing 4 times as much?


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## RussellS (Feb 1, 2010)

Supposedly the Sapim CX-Ray spokes are more aerodynamic. At least when going forward and/or the wind is head on. CX-Ray spokes are 2.0 on the ends, 0.9 thickness, and 2.3 width. DT Revolution spokes are butted round spokes. 2.0 on the ends and 1.5 in the middle. So the wind will see 0.9 of metal on the CX-Ray and 1.5 of metal on the Revolution. Are they worth four times as much? Who knows.


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## carlosflanders (Nov 23, 2008)

Both should have very similar cross-sectional area, therefore similar properties.

Assuming CX ray is elliptical it would be slightly smaller area than DT Rev, but not enough to make any real difference. I would treat them as identical apart from aero properties and cost.

My own experience with DT revs found them to be very difficult to tension beyond about 95 kgf . They display a lot of wind up and seem to stretch quite a bit.


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## mimason (Oct 7, 2006)

If you are concerned why not opt for DTs in the rear and CX up front for the aero where it is more important.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

It would be more fair to compare the CX-Ray to the Aerolite from DT which usually costs more. Either way, the bladed spokes are forged from 2.0/1.5/2.0mm spokes so weight and resultant wheel stiffness will not be different. I've seen more than one wind tunnel test show that CX-Rays are more aerodynamic than their round counterparts. This is true at various yaw angles and not just straight on.

The differences aren't large. It's ultimately up to the consumer to decide the cost/benefit.

Another characteristic of the CX-Ray I've read is of it's superior fatigue life, but I haven't had any problems with round spokes so I wonder how worthwhile those "studies" are.

-Eric


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

farva said:


> I see there is a small potential weight savings by using 100% sapims on the rear wheel vs a tad heavier DT comp / revolution combo.


There's no reason you couldn't use the CX-Rays with DT Comps on the drive side.

-Eric


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

farva said:


> Am I missing something that justifies the sapims costing 4 times as much?


Is it any different that people spending $4000 on a bike that's 4x as much as a $1000 bike? Or wheels that are 4x the cost of OpenPro/Ultegras and aren't much, if any, lighter? But people do it every day. What about watches that cost 4x, 40, 400 (or a zillion times) more than a $12 Timex? Just buy what you want to buy.

To answer your question though - no you're not missing anything.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

Where are you getting revs for $0.70 each? Maybe I am not looking hard enough, but the best prices I've seen on Comps is like $0.85 per.


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

Glad you started this thread and don't meant to highjack, but I've been thinking the same about CXrays vs. Sapim Lasers, which are comparable dimensions to the DT Revolutions. All my wheels, factory and handbuilts, including the couple of sets I have built recently, all use the CXrays and I really like the performance and durability....no brokens spokes after thousands of miles. But the Xrays are roughly $3.00 with nipples vs. Lasers at $1.00, so big difference.

Aerodynamics aside, and all other factors in a wheelbuild being the same, am I going to notice much / any difference between a wheel built with the CXrays vs. Lasers? 

I see lots of factory wheels built with DT Revolutions all around, like the Reynolds Assaults, Strikes, etc., and seldom see people complaining of spoke breakage on the rears, so wondered if Lasers all around would be OK to given my experiences with the XRays. 

Last, if I did want a heavier spoke on the DS rear, would it be OK to use something like a Wheelsmith DB 14, so I could get all the spokes at one source (Alchemy) or would I better to find Sapim Race spokes for the DS rear? 
Thanks for the input.


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## farva (Jun 24, 2005)

thanks for the replies. The only racing I do is an occasional hill climb event so the aero advantages are negligible for me. I was just curious if there was other big advantage I was missing. I haven't had to much trouble getting DT Revs to tension using well lubed brass nipples. .70 is the lowest I have paid for them on ebay. Using google shopping thingy I found them for .79. I only use the silver ones which tend to be cheaper than black


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

cdhbrad said:


> Last, if I did want a heavier spoke on the DS rear, would it be OK to use something like a Wheelsmith DB 14, so I could get all the spokes at one source (Alchemy) or would I better to find Sapim Race spokes for the DS rear?
> Thanks for the input.


That's the combination I use all the time. 

-Eric


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

ergott said:


> That's the combination I use all the time = Lasers in Front and Rear NDS / DB 14s on Rear DS? I'll give it that a try on my next set and save the $$$ or buy better hubs. Thanks for the info.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

cdhbrad said:


> ergott said:
> 
> 
> > That's the combination I use all the time = Lasers in Front and Rear NDS / DB 14s on Rear DS? I'll give it that a try on my next set and save the $$$ or buy better hubs. Thanks for the info.
> ...


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

Thanks for the follow up. I think I'll go with that combination on the next set of wheels I have planned just to see how I like them.


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## RussellS (Feb 1, 2010)

krisdrum said:


> Where are you getting revs for $0.70 each? Maybe I am not looking hard enough, but the best prices I've seen on Comps is like $0.85 per.


http://www.starbike.com/index.php?cat=home&lang=en

DT Comp for 0.50 Euro. DT Revolution for 0.75 Euro. Revolution includes aluminum nipple. DT Aerolite for 3.25 Euro. Comp and Revolution are silver. Aerolite is black.

Sapim CX-Ray in black for 2.40 Euro. Sapim CX-Ray in silver for 2.00 Euro. Sapim Superspoke for 3.30 Euro. Superspoke is 1.8/1.4/1.8.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

Im a bit curious why pillar steel bladed spokes never come up in discussion. They're very light, similar or same dimensions to cx-rays and about 1/3rd the price. Im tempted to just give them a go.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

Where would you buy Pillar spokes? 

To the OP... I don't understand why CX-Rays would cost so much to manufacture, but they are more aero and easier to build to high tensions. They are not stiffer or stronger though.


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## valleycyclist (Nov 1, 2009)

rruff said:


> ... I don't understand why CX-Rays would cost so much to manufacture


I have a feeling that CX-Ray spokes have a lower yield than round spokes and that plus the their popularity keeps the prices high. Even after QC not all of the spokes are formed correctly.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

rruff said:


> Where would you buy Pillar spokes?


Couple places online, and ebay. Havent found a big name store that stocks them, but admittedly I didnt look very hard. 90 bucks will get you 64 of them on ebay. CX rays are $190!


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## farva (Jun 24, 2005)

TomH said:


> Im a bit curious why pillar steel bladed spokes never come up in discussion. They're very light, similar or same dimensions to cx-rays and about 1/3rd the price. Im tempted to just give them a go.


I've never used Ti spokes but from what I have read they are not as strong as stainless steel


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

I was referring to the steel bladed pillars, not the ti


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