# zero averaging vs. non-zero averaging



## TricrossRich

does anyone have thoughts on this?


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## woodys737

I include zeros simply to get the clearest picture of what I actually did on the ride.

If you exclude zero your average power and cadence will be higher. I can't think of why that would be desirable as the time your doing intervals you will have power on the pedals anyways. To be honest, I don't know why Garmin (in my case) even has the option

Sort of like setting auto start/stop on the computer to 20mph. Not a very accurate reflection of what you actually did on the ride.


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## mikerp

Power Yes - if you are coasting you are recovering and you want to know the effort for the ride, if you are going downhill you should still hammer it if you are doing an effort
Cadence No - including it here would artificially bring down what you are doing during your efforts


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## TricrossRich

woodys737 said:


> I include zeros simply to get the clearest picture of what I actually did on the ride.
> 
> If you exclude zero your average power and cadence will be higher. I can't think of why that would be desirable as the time your doing intervals you will have power on the pedals anyways. To be honest, I don't know why Garmin (in my case) even has the option
> 
> Sort of like setting auto start/stop on the computer to 20mph. Not a very accurate reflection of what you actually did on the ride.


I think someone could argue that excluding the zeros gives you a clearer picture of what your power actually is when you're putting power out...

currently I exclude zeros on my cadence count, but include them on my power... but I can see both sides of the argument.


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## Carverbiker

Power - yes
cadence- no, I like to know what my average is when pedaling.


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## woodys737

TricrossRich said:


> *I think someone could argue that excluding the zeros gives you a clearer picture of what your power actually is when you're putting power out...*
> 
> currently I exclude zeros on my cadence count, but include them on my power... but I can see both sides of the argument.


Not that I'm right but I disagree. Putting out less power or zero power is part of the game. By definition, excluding zeros artificially inflates the average. I think we are thinking along the same lines though as far as putting power to the pedals which is why I wrote when doing intervals. I mean, there are times I really watch the power to increase pressure when it drops. Doing some LSD later today not so much. I'll just glance at it once in a while to make sure I'm not too high or low. The average just doesn't matter especially if there are a number of lights/stops etc. What matters (to me) is the power I'm putting out right now.

As far as cadence goes I do the same thing. I pretty much know what cadence I'm at and what I want. With the stops and coast downs for light and such the avg cadence for the ride is pretty much irrelevant. However, while doing a specific effort it is useful to see what the average was. edit: and doing specific efforts I never stop pedaling. 

In the end if I suppose it comes down to your route and how you ride and evaluate the data.


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## ericm979

Imagine a ride where you do 250 watts for an hour and 0 for another hour. For most fit male cyclists 125 watts for two hours is very easy while 250 for an hour is somewhat stressful to very hard. 

Fortunately most rides aren't an hour climb and an hour descent. But I often do rides which are an hour climb and 20-30 min descent, repeated a number of times. For those I don't look at overall ride avg power, I look at avg power on each climb.

While riding I monitor 3 second power and cadence.


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## woodys737

ericm979 said:


> Imagine a ride where you do 250 watts for an hour and 0 for another hour. For most fit male cyclists 125 watts for two hours is very easy while 250 for an hour is somewhat stressful to very hard.
> 
> Fortunately most rides aren't an hour climb and an hour descent. But I often do rides which are an hour climb and 20-30 min descent, repeated a number of times. For those I don't look at overall ride avg power, I look at avg power on each climb.
> 
> *While riding I monitor 3 second power and cadence.*


Same here.


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## kbiker3111

non-zero averaging of course

*How else would I get to 4.7 w/kg?*


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## Cableguy

Non-zero power averages are ideal for the internets. I believe before posting your inflated power you'll want to further add 10% and round up to the nearest even number divisible by 20. Then you should be good to go.

Only use true zero power averages for training purposes but keep that information locked down and archived deep out sight. I recommend storing your zero power average data in a safe with motion sensors. You can't risk people knowing how pathetic your actual power is. Earlier this year I woke up in the middle of the night to my home alarm going off. What was the first thing I did? I frantically began burning all of my zero power average data... turns out my kid just came home late and forgot to deactivate the alarm, but better safe than sorry. 

No one can know how much I suck. 

No one.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST

TricrossRich said:


> I think someone could argue that excluding the zeros gives you a clearer picture of what your power actually is when you're putting power out...


They might use that argument, however time spent not pedalling affects what you can do when you are pedalling, so no, it's not really making things clearer.

NZAP has no physiological basis as a power filter.

If you want to know what you did for a specific interval or climb, then that's what interval markers are for.


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## spdntrxi

Power yes
Cadence no


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## DaveLeeNC

FWIW, I would like to know both.

dave


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## Donn12

cadence Im not worried about and I don't want zeros to count against me. I can always pedal so when I don't I'm making a conscious decision not to. If I coast for a minute or so I don't want that to drag down my cadence average for actual pedaling.
Power I do count zeros because IMO that is the way way to see what I did and if I am going for a 300w 1 hour effort (longer term goal) then putting out zero for a minute has to count against it.


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## Srode

Like others - Power Yes, Cadence No - I can't see any value at all in having zeros included in my average cadence.


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