# 2018 Carbon Clinchers... Safe Enough for Decents?



## boleiro (Jun 11, 2010)

What is the latest on Carbon Clincher wheels for descents? I have done a lot of searching but can't very much at all that is recent. Lots of info on how well they climb... but, was hoping to hear experiences of forum members with their carbon clinchers and coming down the mountain. 

To help, the rides would up the Salt Lake City Utah canyons that can get steep, but not too technical. The real worry for me is traffic... technical or not, sometimes with cars on the road you have to brake fast and hard. I understand how to properly modulate braking and to not drag the pads. But, there are those times you have to ride the brakes some dealing with cars and other riders. I fear this! Maybe specific brands and brake pads would be best?

I really want to get some carbon wheels for the wrong and right reasons. But feel I would be better served with a solid pair of aluminum clinchers due to the amount climbing I do... thinking campy eurus or shamal c17.

any words of wisdom to guide this purchase?


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

You can still kill a rim in the worst conditions. That means dragging brakes for a real long time. If you feel conditions might dictate that, I'd consider aluminium. Just gives you added peace of mind. On closed roads with some basic braking skill I think it's a non issue. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

boleiro said:


> any words of wisdom to guide this purchase?


Get a bike w/ disc brakes _and _carbon wheels.


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

cxwrench said:


> Get a bike w/ disc brakes _and _carbon wheels.


Carbon clinchers are a total waste of money and I even have a pair of 2017 Zipp 202s. OP; be smart and get the C17 Campy Shamals; one of the best factory wheelsets made.


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## boleiro (Jun 11, 2010)

...I guess I knew I really knew I should go aluminum! I wish replacing my frame and wheelset for disc was an option... But that at least doubles a $1500iish investment!

Thanks for all the answers!


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

IMO, I don't think carbon wheels are worth the $$$ unless you are getting paid to race. And if that's the case, you are probably having your wheels given to you for free.

There are many good quality aluminum options in the 1600g range for a set. If you really want to reduce rotating weight more, get lighter tires. Of course, that comes with its own set of drawbacks like less puncture resistance.

Sorry, but there are no free lunches.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

I don't know about resistance to getting fried or blowing tubes from heat but the braking performance of Corima rims is pretty amazing. Better than my alloy rims for sure.

Note though I tested the tubular (but pretty sure surface on clinchers is the same) and it wasn't raining.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

cxwrench said:


> Get a bike w/ disc brakes _and _carbon wheels.


This is the only reasonable way I can see running carbon clinchers in a hilly area. November Dave had a post here sometime ago about why his business quit selling carbon clinchers. I don't understand why they're so popular. Yeah, they look cool, but that's about it.


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## ngl (Jan 22, 2002)

I guess I'll be the first to go against the norm. I now run 38 mm carbon clinchers (1400 grams) along with premium tires and latex tubes. I love them. The ride is amazing (especially when riding long distances), they are lighter for climbing & for quick accelerations when the pack changes speed and they are a little more aero. Are they a vast improvement over aluminum...NOPE. Would I use them for extended descents...NOPE. Are there people commenting on carbon clinchers without having ever ridden them...YEP.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

Be aware that most carbon clincher manufacturers do not recommend latex tubes as they can fail sooner than butyl. Many of them have warning labels right on the rim.


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## ngl (Jan 22, 2002)

I have read many posts/reports/comments/gossip on this topic. Reasons being heat build-up, carbon shards, corrosion, improper installation. The reasons go on and on.

For argument sake let's say "latex tubes can fail sooner than butyl" when used with carbon clinchers. I have had many flats (for all sorts of different reasons) over the years using both Butyl and Latex tubes together with aluminum rims and carbon rims. I think it's a 'given' that you are going to flat if you ride a bike. My next flat may be because of a latex failure or one of any number of other reasons.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

for mountains, I use only aluminum clinchers.

But for flatlanders, I think carbon clinchers make a lot of sense. These folks have no real need for braking.

having said that, all my wheelsets are either shallow aluminum clinchers or 50mm-55mm carbon tubulars. I use my carbon aero tubs on the flat and I absolutely love it and will not consider going to anything else. Yes, I carry a 21mm wide spare tub in my back pocket that folks up quite nicely! Only have to use the spare 2 times over the last 2 years or so, well worth the hassle of tubs in my case.


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## BelgianHammer (Apr 10, 2012)

aclinjury said:


> for mountains, I use only aluminum clinchers.
> 
> But for flatlanders, I think carbon clinchers make a lot of sense. These folks have no real need for braking.
> 
> having said that, all my wheelsets are either shallow aluminum clinchers or 50mm-55mm carbon tubulars. I use my carbon aero tubs on the flat and I absolutely love it and will not consider going to anything else. Yes, I carry a 21mm wide spare tub in my back pocket that *folks up* quite nicely! Only have to use the spare 2 times over the last 2 years or so, well worth the hassle of tubs in my case.



LOL, aclinjury! This is not the spelling/grammar thing, I just love the name. You need to patent/register it. FOLKS UP when you see a tubby rider carrying a tubby. Hey, look there, FOLKS UP!!


Seriously, this whole thread has me confused. You guys are well aware of the short, sharp bergs that exist in Belgium/Netherlands, and you can hit speeds of 50+mph coming down out off of them, but also, there's literally thousands of them, and constant braking & turning onto new roads/paths. It's just how the region is laid out. 

Short of it being one of the too windy days we see here, which can come in bunches and so a lot of guys flop on aluminum front rims (at a minimum), are you all saying that these people riding carbon clinchers, most 40-60mm, are playing with their lives? Even when you see randos from Girona up through the Alps, these people are on the lightest carbon wheels, usually carbon clinchers, they can ride.

Is there some kind of bias going on in this thread? Dang, I was thinking of finally getting pair of Boyd's 44mm carbons this summer, but now I am not so sure. The wheels would be great for the kermesses I race, but I also thought I could train on them, constantly, and not worry about the terrain, braking, etc. And, yes, my bikes are NOT disc bikes---not heading there if I can help, because, for one, it'd be too expensive given my still great stable of clincher bikes. Anyhow, reading this thread, maybe I should just stick to aluminum.

Can someone post a link to November Dave's thread (that the person mentioned earlier in this thread) why his outfit stopped selling carbon clinchers?? Thank you much.


[Edit: tried to correct spelling errors]


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

ngl said:


> I have read many posts/reports/comments/gossip on this topic. Reasons being heat build-up, carbon shards, corrosion, improper installation. The reasons go on and on.
> 
> For argument sake let's say "latex tubes can fail sooner than butyl" when used with carbon clinchers. I have had many flats (for all sorts of different reasons) over the years using both Butyl and Latex tubes together with aluminum rims and carbon rims. I think it's a 'given' that you are going to flat if you ride a bike. My next flat may be because of a latex failure or one of any number of other reasons.


Well you are the one that said you wouldn't use your carbon rims on long extended descents and that's what this OP is asking about.
I get that you were talking about not using deep rims not latex when you said that but it would be another reason. I get your point and think it applies to just riding around. But if latex pops from heat of carbon then a few more flats then is indeed a big deal because they will happen on long steep descents.


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## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

I have carbon clinchers (boyd 44) and i ride them with latex tubes. On climbing days/long fast descent days, i run an alloy front wheel. Don't know that it is necessary and don't want to find out it is. And the alloy wheel brakes much better tham the carbon wheel.

I'll ride the carbon wheels on pure skyline drive rides (5-6% mostly) - because you don't need to brake much if at all for any of that road. But, i prefer the alloy front for the times you have to brake to make turns or stop right at the bottom of a 50 mph descent that butts into a divided highway (mt weather). 

With all that, i want a disc brake road bike. Roadies gave me crap in 1998 for running a threadless fork on my road bike. We know how that ended up. Disc brakes will be the same story.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

ngl said:


> I have read many posts/reports/comments/gossip on this topic. Reasons being heat build-up, carbon shards, *corrosion*, improper installation. The reasons go on and on.


Corrosion? I didn't know carbon corrodes. Do tell!


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## ngl (Jan 22, 2002)

Jay Strongbow said:


> Well you are the one that said you wouldn't use your carbon rims on long extended descents and that's what this OP is asking about.
> I get that you were talking about not using deep rims not latex when you said that but it would be another reason. I get your point and think it applies to just riding around. But if latex pops from heat of carbon then a few more flats then is indeed a big deal because they will happen on long steep descents.


You are right Jay (and some of my post may have been ambiguous). Personally, I would not use or recommend using carbon clinchers on extended high speed & technical descents where a lot of braking is involved, or dragging the brakes is involved. I have many reasons and the POSSIBILITY of blowing a latex tube is only one of them. Also after riding many 1000's of miles with latex tubes, I still have never blown a latex tube due to overheating YET.


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## dmanthree (Aug 22, 2014)

ergott said:


> Be aware that most carbon clincher manufacturers do not recommend latex tubes as they can fail sooner than butyl. Many of them have warning labels right on the rim.


I ran latex for a summer, and moved on. They didn't fail but there was little, if any benefit and they are high maintenance since they lose air very quickly. Not worth it.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

dmanthree said:


> I ran latex for a summer, and moved on. They didn't fail but there was little, if any benefit and they are high maintenance since they lose air very quickly. Not worth it.


Is it that much effort to pump up the tires before a ride? I did that even back when I used butyl tubes.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

dmanthree said:


> I ran latex for a summer, and moved on. They didn't fail but there was little, if any benefit and they are high maintenance since they lose air very quickly. Not worth it.


I use them, just pump them up every ride like I do with any tube, no biggie. They do ride nicer, and even if they gain only a couple watts, I'll take what I can get! Plus they do ride nicer are supposed to be more resistant to punctures.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

bvber said:


> Is it that much effort to pump up the tires before a ride? I did that even back when I used butyl tubes.


Much effort? No. But more. I ride with my wife, and so I deal with 4 tires at a time. I generally pump them once a week, unless I have reason for a specific pressure in our acceptable range.

Even for topping off, a couple psi versus a couple tens of psi for every ride. Times 4. Big deal? No, small deal, but every single time. And easily eliminated using butyl.

YMMV but I like grab and go for my road bike.


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## dmanthree (Aug 22, 2014)

bvber said:


> Is it that much effort to pump up the tires before a ride? I did that even back when I used butyl tubes.


No, but they'd lose air during long rides, as well. I lost ten PSI during a long ride once. They'd lose 15 to 20 PSI overnight.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Srode said:


> I use them, just pump them up every ride like I do with any tube, no biggie. They do ride nicer, and even if they gain only a couple watts, I'll take what I can get! Plus they do ride nicer are supposed to be more resistant to punctures.


I use them on my road bike and think they help too. Both speed and comfort wise. If I remember correctly it's about 6 watts, or three per tire, according to reputable testing. Not a ton but I'll take it. 

I don't use them on my cross bike and use that bike for quick lunch rides ect when I don't feel like going though the whole production of pumping tires for just a quick or utilitarian ride (like to run an errand by bike).


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

dmanthree said:


> I ran latex for a summer, and moved on. They didn't fail but there was little, if any benefit and they are high maintenance since they lose air very quickly. Not worth it.


That was precisely my conclusion. I'm not a person who claims to tell the difference between 2.5 mm on cranks, or the material that a seat post is made of, so maybe there are those who really notice a better ride from latex tubes, but I sure didn't

And yes, it is a PITA to have to pump your tires before EVERY ride because of the latex tubes that make no perceived difference. I commute and leave my bike in the car (I drive to a MUT) for a few days in a row. So yeah, I prefer not to have to go out into the garage every night before bed, pull the bike out of the car and pump up the tires. With butyl tubes, you lose maybe 2-3 lbs a day. With latex its more like 15-20 lbs.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

Your options are either disc or a carbon wheel with an aluminum braking surface like HED and most Mavic wheels (to name a couple). These are generally aluminum box wheels with a carbon fairing, but they work just as well and are more practical. My take is since most people are buying them more for the aesthetics than anything else and the perceived increase in speed they think they will achieve from them, it's worth looking into. Also, carbon clinchers have been proven to be more aero than their tubular counterparts. the big brands are costly, but they havea lot of R&D behind them. If you can't or don't want to swing for the big bucks they cost, consider a Chinese carbon brand that is UCI-approved, like Yeoleo. I'm pretty sure the UCI isn't going to risk putting their approval on crap products. Then again, you can stick with aluminum, not have to worry and be done with it.


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## bvber (Apr 23, 2011)

pmf said:


> I commute and leave my bike in the car (I drive to a MUT) for a few days in a row. So yeah, I prefer not to have to go out into the garage every night before bed, pull the bike out of the car and pump up the tires. With butyl tubes, you lose maybe 2-3 lbs a day. With latex its more like 15-20 lbs.


In that case, yeah. I use butyl tube on my commuter bike as well.


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## November Dave (Dec 7, 2011)

It's less that carbon corrodes, it's that it nukes most metals if you have any kind of galvanic connection. You see this a ton on boats, where people are unaware of it. Unprotected aluminum attached to a carbon tube (sailboat boom) in the Caribbean (warm and very very saline water), I've heard of people being able to hear the reaction happening. 

If you ever watch the Leuscher (sp?) videos where he cuts frames in half, he always notes where frames have or don't have fiberglass isolation patches at hardware attachment points.

I prefer latex tubes and use them when I don't use tubeless. At this point, tubeless is basically anything bigger than a GP4000 28, anything GP4000 28 or smaller gets latex tubes. Can understand why people don't use them, but in that case I'd recommend Conti Race tubes. They're shown to be better rolling resistance than regular butyl (not quite as good as latex) and they don't flat any more often than thick butyl from all I've ever heard. Crap tubes are crap.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

boleiro said:


> What is the latest on Carbon Clincher wheels for descents? I have done a lot of searching but can't very much at all that is recent. Lots of info on how well they climb... but, was hoping to hear experiences of forum members with their carbon clinchers and coming down the mountain.
> 
> To help, the rides would up the Salt Lake City Utah canyons that can get steep, but not too technical. The real worry for me is traffic... technical or not, sometimes with cars on the road you have to brake fast and hard. I understand how to properly modulate braking and to not drag the pads. But, there are those times you have to ride the brakes some dealing with cars and other riders. I fear this! Maybe specific brands and brake pads would be best?
> 
> ...


I have raced around 200 times in the past four years. Most of my races were on carbon wheels, many were very hilly. My gf races just as much as me, also on carbon. She also trained on her carbon wheels (up until her most recent team went tubular carbon and got her alum clinchers). Between the two of us that is hundreds of races and tens of thousands of miles. The only time I was concerned was about three years back when my girlfriend had some off-brand, cheap Chinese carbon clinchers and the rim warped. Other than that, I don't even think about it. I just ride normally and slam on the brakes as needed. 

So my wisdom is this: 

If you get carbon clinchers, do not get anything cheap. Buy reputable wheels and use the brake pads the manufacturer recommends. Everything will be fine.

OR

Just ride aluminum and do not even worry about it. If you are not racing, there is not much difference.


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