# tired of crappy little patch kits



## draganM (Nov 27, 2001)

For some reason it's taken me way too long to do this but I finally searched for a bulk kit to buy instead of spending 3 dollars for 7 patches in your typical LBS kit.
The best patches are the German Rema Tip Top, and you can get a 100 pack of the small round patches and a 50 gram tube of glue for 25 bucks. So instead of 50 cents per patch it comes out 25 cents and more importantly your not always running out to buy more. This is especially important if your maintaining 2 kids bikes + the wifes. Not that the wifes bike ever gets a puncture sitting in the garage but......
I would also advise buying some premium tubes from Vredstein, these are seamless tubes with uniform wall thickness and take a patch better than your typical Asian tube + a much higher quality valve. In other words they're actually worth patching.

http://www.alltiresupply.com/Mercha...tore_Code=MDMHI-F9A1AK810C1&Product_Code=F0-P

+

http://www.alltiresupply.com/Mercha...Store_Code=MDMHI-F9A1AK810C1&Product_Code=202

=


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## Gimme Shoulder (Feb 10, 2004)

I've had very good luck with fl*ts the last couple of years. I think the half used patch kit I carry currently is 3 years old. Don't see the need to buy in bulk.


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## svard75 (Jun 10, 2011)

+1^^ How often do you get flats? Are your flats from something piercing the tire or pinch flats or cuts from the rim drillings?

Maybe a thicker walled tire would solve the problem. I bought the parktools superpatch kit and love it. It's got self adhesive patches which work very well and have had it for 1 year now.


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## Manning (Jul 8, 2010)

I go through a ton of patches. [But not on the road bike.] Farm supply stores have big patch kits.


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## paule11 (Jun 11, 2011)

I brought a heap of patches years ago had them in my backpack with a tube of tip top glue . Used to have people at work asking me for patches when they got flats on the way to work still have a few patches left


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## respro (Jun 21, 2012)

I've never gotten a flat on my Trek 5000 that I've had since 05. Not many miles though. Still have the stock tires to.


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## MerlinAma (Oct 11, 2005)

draganM said:


> ?....
> The best patches are the German Rema Tip Top,"
> 
> Rema Red Edge Vulcanizing Tube Patches - Round (16mm) (F0-P): All Tire Supply Company
> ...


Agree, and they work well on latex tubes also.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I haven't used glue on patches for over 15 years, I've used nothing but glueless patches since then and love them, work great, last the life of the tube, and don't have to wait for glue to dry anymore. I don't have a need to buy in bulk, one patch kit containing 6 patches last at least a year and longer.


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## SteveV0983 (Dec 9, 2008)

froze said:


> I haven't used glue on patches for over 15 years, I've used nothing but glueless patches since then and love them, work great, last the life of the tube, and don't have to wait for glue to dry anymore. I don't have a need to buy in bulk, one patch kit containing 6 patches last at least a year and longer.


I completely agree with this. Park Glueless patches are about $2 at most bike shops (pack of 6) and they stay on forever. I have some tubes that must be at least 3 years old with 4 patches on them and they hold air perfectly.


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## draganM (Nov 27, 2001)

wow, 2 guys that never get flats, do you ride your bikes? I' guessing with original tires from 2005 the answer is no I go through 5 or 6 tires a year and get approx. a dozen puncture flats on just my road bikes. Enough to the point that I buy CO2 cartridges in bulk too.Here in the southwest we have puncture vine seeds, AKA goat-heads, and they are brutal. Punctured 3 times 2 in weeks at the Table. Mt. Thursday night training crit in golden, CO. 
Have not had any luck with Park glueless, that was years ago when they came out. I really thought they were crap back then but maybe I'll give them another try. 
funny thing is this nasty thing doesn't even belong here = invasive species from SE Europe.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

The problem with glueless patch kits is that the glue will become less adhesive after a few years in your pocket. Right when you need it, the patch won't hold. With traditional glue patches the glue is in a sealed tube and as long as you don't puncture the seal the glue will last a long long time.

Best solution - carry a spare tube, and when you get home, patch the flatted tube correctly using a glued patch.


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## RoadrunnerLXXI (Jun 3, 2012)

draganM said:


> wow, 2 guys that never get flats, do you ride your bikes? I' guessing with original tires from 2005 the answer is no I go through 5 or 6 tires a year and get approx. a dozen puncture flats on just my road bikes. Enough to the point that I buy CO2 cartridges in bulk too.Here in the southwest we have puncture vine seeds, AKA goat-heads, and they are brutal. Punctured 3 times 2 in weeks at the Table. Mt. Thursday night training crit in golden, CO.
> Have not had any luck with Park glueless, that was years ago when they came out. I really thought they were crap back then but maybe I'll give them another try.
> funny thing is this nasty thing doesn't even belong here = invasive species from SE Europe.


Have you try using Slime? It would save you buying all those CO2 cartridge.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

^^^ you go through 5 or 6 tires a year? what kind of tires are you using and how many miles a year do you ride?

by the way I use to live in goathead territory and Slime green goo does NOT work in road tires against flats. Slime will only hold pressure at about 70psi anything above that and Slime goo will not hold and just blow air out of the hole it was trying to seal. The best defense against flats and Goatheads are simply tougher tires like the Specialized Armadillo All Condition tire; once I switched to those tires I never had a flat again froom goatheads. thorn proof tubes will do nothing either, nor will the much tooted Conti Gatorskins, and I even had goatheads penetrate Mr Tuffy's. Liners will fail in that environment, however today there is a new tire liner that holds better promise then either the Mr Tuffy or the Slime liner called the Panaracer FlatAway, it cost it bit more but it's tough, I had a bear of a time cutting a strip of it when I installed one on my rear tire on a touring bike of mine, whereas with the others it was no problem cutting them.


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## martinrjensen (Sep 23, 2007)

I'm thinking you should try Hutchinson Tubeless tires with sealant inside. You will still flat if you hit a goat head, but it would probably seal up before it gets too low


draganM said:


> wow, 2 guys that never get flats, do you ride your bikes? I' guessing with original tires from 2005 the answer is no I go through 5 or 6 tires a year and get approx. a dozen puncture flats on just my road bikes. Enough to the point that I buy CO2 cartridges in bulk too.Here in the southwest we have puncture vine seeds, AKA goat-heads, and they are brutal. Punctured 3 times 2 in weeks at the Table. Mt. Thursday night training crit in golden, CO.
> Have not had any luck with Park glueless, that was years ago when they came out. I really thought they were crap back then but maybe I'll give them another try.
> funny thing is this nasty thing doesn't even belong here = invasive species from SE Europe.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Why would anyone want some sort of goo inside their rims and tires? I learned that the hard way...what a mess.


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2012)

I'm actually interested in getting some bulk patches as well. 

I seem to get flats all the time as well. In some cases due to goatheads, nails, staples, glass, all sorts of stuff. I tried a gatorskin rear tire for a while and that seemed to make no difference. When that ended up getting destroyed following a turn in which I bottomed out the pedals, pinch-flatted when the tire landed at a ~45 degree angle on the road hard, then immediately blew a 4" gash in the tire when I straightened the bike out. I figure I might as well have cheaper better handling tires if the "puncture resistant" ones don't actually prevent punctures...

Often what happens when I pucnture though is the goathead, or nail, or tack or whatever causes a slow leak, which ultimately result in pressure dropping gradually and resulting in a pinch flat later on in the ride. This means repairing a tube often requires multiple patches (for the original thorn puncture, and the pinch puncture(s). I have a few spare tubes on my hand at home with multiple punctures I'd like to repair, but don't want to waste all the patches in my roadside kit to do so.


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## martinrjensen (Sep 23, 2007)

Here's why: I was riding. I got a flat. I could hear the air coming out. The tiretotally sealed up within a couple miles riding. the next day, it still held air. 
If you are in an area where you will get a lot of flats (like goat head territory) you won't have to stop to repair the tire all the time. the "mess" as you call it is not that hard to wipe out if you want to replace it with a tube till you get home. Chances are you won't have to either. I learned that the hard way also. I have tubeless on one of my 4 bikes and I think this area would be a good place to use them in.


froze said:


> Why would anyone want some sort of goo inside their rims and tires? I learned that the hard way...what a mess.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

PhotonFreak said:


> I'm actually interested in getting some bulk patches as well.
> 
> I seem to get flats all the time as well. In some cases due to goatheads, nails, staples, glass, all sorts of stuff. I tried a gatorskin rear tire for a while and that seemed to make no difference. When that ended up getting destroyed following a turn in which I bottomed out the pedals, pinch-flatted when the tire landed at a ~45 degree angle on the road hard, then immediately blew a 4" gash in the tire when I straightened the bike out. I figure I might as well have cheaper better handling tires if the "puncture resistant" ones don't actually prevent punctures...
> 
> Often what happens when I pucnture though is the goathead, or nail, or tack or whatever causes a slow leak, which ultimately result in pressure dropping gradually and resulting in a pinch flat later on in the ride. This means repairing a tube often requires multiple patches (for the original thorn puncture, and the pinch puncture(s). I have a few spare tubes on my hand at home with multiple punctures I'd like to repair, but don't want to waste all the patches in my roadside kit to do so.


I understand your frustration, I've been there! When I moved to the Mojave Desert area of California I got so many flats, I tried so many different tires and tubes and slime and liners it drove me crazy to the point of almost wanting to give up cycling! Then a LBS I walked into finally gave me the answer that really worked and that was trying the Specialized Armadillo All Condition tire, they even said I could use a ultralight racing tube?! You bet I questioned that, but I tried it with the Armadillo tires and in the 18,000 or 20,000 miles I rode in that area after using the Armadillos I only had one flat and that was due to literally wearing down a tire to the cords. I'm not saying you'll have that sort of success because no tire is flat proof but I will say your incidents of flats will be dramatically reduced.

Note, those Armadillos are not lightweight tires and they feel sluggish and stiff. You can eliminate some of the stiffness feeling by reducing PSI about 10 less then you normally ride on and you won't get snake bites doing so because the sidewalls are very stiff. But the weight factor is a non event because by the time you try a Conti Harshell Gatorskin that weighs 310 grams, throw a Slime tube that weighs 120 grams, and a liner that weighs 100 grams unless you use the Panaracer FlatAway which are better anyways that weighs 35grms then you still have a tire/tube/liner combined weight of 530 to maybe 465 grams and end up being heavier then the 375 grms plus 75grms for a light tube for a total of 450grms a Armadillo All Condition weighs! So weight wise it's better to go the Armadillo route. If by some odd chance you're still getting more flats then you want, which I seriously doubt will happen, then put in a set of the Panaracer FlatAway liners in.

By the way, the Armadillo tire is also a very long lasting tire, these tires routinely get over 5,000 miles with some reports of going 7,000 miles, I averaged about 5,500 miles but I lived in area that had course paved roads and rode into the mountains a lot. Any other brand of tires will last about 3,500 miles.

There is also other great flat resistant tires, like Schwalbe Marathon and a couple of others, but these are heavier then the Armadillo's and you really don't need those sort of tires unless your planning on touring.

Another note, the LBS that sold me on the Armadillos also had a RAAM team, they won the 4 person RAAM event in 2004 (I think that was the year), they raced on the same Armadillos they sold me! Their theory was is they could get across America with very little flats they could beat those that had more flats. They got across America without a single flat and won.


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## Gimme Shoulder (Feb 10, 2004)

froze said:


> Another note, the LBS that sold me on the Armadillos also had a RAAM team, they won the 4 person RAAM event in 2004 (I think that was the year), they raced on the same Armadillos they sold me! Their theory was is they could get across America with very little flats they could beat those that had more flats. They got across America without a single flat and won.


Not to hijack the thread, but was that Action Sports in Bakersfield? Team leader was Kerry Ryan, owner of Action Sports. Not only did they win, but they broke the avg speed record with a 23.06 mph avg!


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Gimme Shoulder said:


> Not to hijack the thread, but was that Action Sports in Bakersfield? Team leader was Kerry Ryan, owner of Action Sports. Not only did they win, but they broke the avg speed record with a 23.06 mph avg!


Yup, them the guys! I knew Kerry Ryan, he's a great guy and has a great store with a friendly knowledgeable staff...at least when I lived there they did, I don't see Kerry being the kind of person that would let that degrade.

They did that win and record on Armadillos.


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## Gimme Shoulder (Feb 10, 2004)

Yep. Probably the same guy as you remember - intense about business, and super customer oriented. Been at a new location since about 2009. Great store, with a huge inventory of bikes, huge rock climbing wall(s), spin classes with lots of spin bikes, etc. I live in North Cali, but travel to B'field on business all the time, and developed a nice casual relationship with Kerry, just from browsing the store. Always willing to take time with you, even if you're not buying. When it came time for the wife and I to buy new bikes, that was the only place I considered. Here's the link.

:: Action Sports ::


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

froze said:


> Why would anyone want some sort of goo inside their rims and tires? I learned that the hard way...what a mess.


....Go ask the MTBR forum


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

I didn't want to order 100 patches and a can of glue, so I ordered the smaller tip top patches and tubes of glue from Pro Bike Kit.It is working out well and the patches work better than most. The free shipping made it worthwhile:

http://www.probikekit.com/us/catalogsearch/result/?q=tip+top&brand=Search+by+Brand


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

tednugent said:


> ....Go ask the MTBR forum


 MTB's don't air their tires past 65psi either, which means the green goop will seal their tires without usually going flat; road tires won't do that blowing green snot all over the inside of your rims and tires and tubes.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

froze said:


> MTB's don't air their tires past 65psi either, which means the green goop will seal their tires without usually going flat; road tires won't do that blowing green snot all over the inside of your rims and tires and tubes.


MTB's going tubeless mean the sealant is already all over inside the rim and tire...

if you're using Stan's sealant, then you get this "coral" buildup inside your tires...


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

tednugent said:


> MTB's going tubeless mean the sealant is already all over inside the rim and tire...
> 
> if you're using Stan's sealant, then you get this "coral" buildup inside your tires...


Stans is not bad stuff, but it isn't totally flat resistant either...nor is anything else on the market. Problem is with Stans is it will leak fluid everywhere depending on the size of the puncture; anyway here is a list of pros and cons written by a fellow who likes it, so I'm not trying to cut the stuff down: Tubes versus Tubeless | Bike Carson The biggest con I've heard is that once the tire goes flat while riding you can't repair the leak you have to replace the tube, which some of us do anyways though I prefer to patch first and replace the tube as a last resort.

I can't help to wonder why this type of technology hasn't caught on with the pro race crowd? tradition? rules? or it's not as good as everyone thinks? I wouldn't mind trying it, but I'm comfortable with the old way for now, maybe I might try it on my touring bike.


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## eidolon (Jun 21, 2012)

I've used tubeless for mountain biking. Some of the cons listed are not what I have experienced- I've been able to have a puncture seal when the tyre went flat just by pumping more air into it. You don't need a compressor- a good floor pump usually works (or failing that, a CO2 cartridge).

I switched back to tubes only because I change my MTB tyres frequently in my flat, and didn't like the mess. If I had a yard, I'd still be running tubeless.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

froze said:


> Stans is not bad stuff, but it isn't totally flat resistant either...nor is anything else on the market. Problem is with Stans is it will leak fluid everywhere depending on the size of the puncture; anyway here is a list of pros and cons written by a fellow who likes it, so I'm not trying to cut the stuff down: Tubes versus Tubeless | Bike Carson The biggest con I've heard is that once the tire goes flat while riding you can't repair the leak you have to replace the tube, which some of us do anyways though I prefer to patch first and replace the tube as a last resort.
> 
> I can't help to wonder why this type of technology hasn't caught on with the pro race crowd? tradition? rules? or it's not as good as everyone thinks? I wouldn't mind trying it, but I'm comfortable with the old way for now, maybe I might try it on my touring bike.


Yes, I still carry a tube for my MTB... I would be dreading the day I have a flat that won't seal....

now why hasn't the pro road bikers caught on? They run tubulars, so they don't have to worry about the clincher negatives. And... they got their SAG wagon... which most of us don't exactly have that luxury.

Kenda did have compatibility issues with sealant, where the sealant was eating away at the tire. Since then, they have the Sealant Compatible Tires... but, it could be a similar situation with tubular compounds


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

tednugent said:


> now why hasn't the pro road bikers caught on? They run tubulars, so they don't have to worry about the clincher negatives. And... they got their SAG wagon... which most of us don't exactly have that luxury.


What? You don't ride with sag support? A lot of riders do today, it's called a cell phone which they use to call their sag support...their mommies, er I mean wives.

Anyway, if tubeless tires decreases flats and makes the tire lighter then wouldn't it make sense in races to have less flats thus less down time, and to have lighter wheels? Even though the flat down time with a sag crew is only maybe 30 seconds that could mean the difference between winning and losing, thus it would seem at least to me to make sense using tubeless system. There's got to be another reason this stuff isn't used professionally.


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