# Firecrest rim crack



## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

I have a pair of Zipp 404 Firecrest tubulars, and the rear rim has developed a crack across the brake track on the drive side. I haven't crashed them and I'm puzzled because there's no sign of any impact to the rim or marks to the tire that would indicate I hit a rock. I've taken them to the lbs who were not encouraging about the odds of warranty replacement. What I've been told is that Zipp always interprets failures of rims at the edge to result from impact and will not warranty them. 

Anyone have experience with this? I'm wondering what the Zipp warranty is worth exactly.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

No way of knowing for sure. A picture would be helpful. 
Only one way to find out though. Go ahead and send 'em back to Zipp and see what they say. I have a feeling your not going to be impressed with their warranty turnaround time though.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

It's at the lbs now, so no pic. The crack is pretty subtle from the edge just across the brake track. Like I said, no visible gouge in the rim edge (I looked with a loupe) or mark on the tire. No cracks around spoke holes. I just felt it while braking one day.


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## QQUIKM3 (Apr 20, 2008)

*Typical Zipp Carp. . .*

Had 303s a while back and had to send them back to Zipp on two occasions. Sold them. Garbage wheels. Been riding Campagnolo wheels ever sense, and have never had one problem.


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

Last ditch, there are people that frequent the weightweenie board that can repair the rim. It would be much cheaper and if the crack is subtle, you could catch it before it propagates.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

QQUIKM3 said:


> Had 303s a while back and had to send them back to Zipp on two occasions. Sold them. Garbage wheels. Been riding Campagnolo wheels ever sense, and have never had one problem.


I've put in a lot of miles on Zipp wheels and AC and Cane Creek wheels built with Zipp rims, and they're definitely NOT garbage. I had a horrendous crash with a set of 303s that resulted in broken spokes and sheared nipples--replaced the nipples and rode several thousand more trouble free miles. 

This is my first set of Firecrests and the first real problem I've had with a Zipp wheel, so my first encounter with warranty support.


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## wphenick (May 31, 2004)

I cracked several Firecrests and was pleasantly surprised by how good Zipp was. I switched to 25 mm tires and have been fine since. I understand that the Firecrests are supposed to have a technological advantage over many wheels.but I am just as happy with Reynolds.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Several? Wow. I'm hoping this won't be the first in a continuing series. 

My wheel is enroute to the mothership. We' see what they do.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

QQUIKM3 said:


> Had 303s a while back and had to send them back to Zipp on two occasions. Sold them. Garbage wheels. Been riding Campagnolo wheels ever sense, and have never had one problem.


great post. ever wonder why you've got those little red squares and zero rep?


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## ABdan (Aug 10, 2012)

Keep us updated on how this goes. I had a very similar situation recently and was extremely disappointed with how Zipp handled it. My guess is they will offer to "crash replace" the wheel.


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## nacnac3 (Dec 27, 2002)

Good luck I hope it works out for you. I'd like an update as well as I've been thinking about a set of 303's myself. Hopefully they make it right.


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## nhluhr (Sep 9, 2010)

Man, I would think you'd take a photo of a failure like this.


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## QQUIKM3 (Apr 20, 2008)

*Ahhh. . .*



cxwrench said:


> great post. ever wonder why you've got those little red squares and zero rep?


Thanks for noticing my Chicklets CX. They were actually earned by ONE flaming post about a on-line establishment.

OP, back to you. . .


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

ABdan said:


> Keep us updated on how this goes. I had a very similar situation recently and was extremely disappointed with how Zipp handled it. My guess is they will offer to "crash replace" the wheel.


Indeed, you called it. Evidently, if they say the crack was caused by an impact, there was an impact even if none actually took place and there is no evidence it took place. So, they're offering me a "crash" replacement--$350 plus shipping.

Realistically, I have to take it because I need the wheel. But it tells me their warranty doesn't really cover mfg defects. This wheel was babied.


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## Wheelieman (Aug 27, 2012)

Agreed it's a pity there is no photo. I would love to see what this looked like.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

The photo wouldn't have looked like much. I could feel it while braking but it was hard to see. I had to run my thumbnail along the brake track to find it. Under a loupe you could see that it went from the rim edge across the brake track and stopped just a mm or two past it.


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## Mdeth1313 (Nov 1, 2001)

I've never owned a set of zipps, primarily because of the old stories about their rims folding when people went into a corner. Of course that was from the early days of carbon wheels, but it kept me from purchasing theirs. Over the years it seems there are a lot more compaints about zipps failing than say reynolds, or more recently, enve. Which incidentally, are the only brands of carbon rims I've owned.

Over the 8 years I've used carbon rims, I've never had a rim failure. I guess it's good to be zipp free.


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## chlee (Sep 3, 2012)

Hi guys,

Just thought of sharing as I haven't seen a similar post on online forums with answers have been seeking. I have had a similar problem with my Zipp 404 Firecrest Tubular front wheel. 

Bought it brand new in Jan 2012, and after a few hundred k's I hit a pothole that dented the braking surface of the one side of the wheel (see photo). 

The crack is only visible on the side wall of the braking surface and does not go beyond into the dimpled surface and where the tyre seats. There was no sign of buckling and no truing required so I continued riding it for about 500km with no issue.

Then I had a crash and my shoe hit the spoke(s) of the front wheel. The tension / impact from this probably caused the dent on the spoke hole (see photo) and needed truing. The LBS told me to send it back to Zipp to see if a crash warranty is possible. So Zipp came back indeed with an analysis that the wheel is not repairable and can be replaced at $800 including new rim (no hub), spokes and labour. As this was more than the price I initially paid for the wheel (clearance discount), I didn't want to rebuild a wheel when I can buy a new one on discount later. Anyway, I got the wheel back and trued it myself.

Took it on a few test rides to stress the wheel a bit but the crack did not worsen. Been riding it around 500km now (both hills and flats with varying speed) and seems to work fine. The tubular Firecrest which are wider and molded differently to the normal Zipps seem to be pretty tough in my experience.

However, I know I'm risking it but I guess what I've done here shows that no matter how much we try to fix, test, remedy, etc. and the wheel seem to work fine; we can't get over the thought that it might somehow fail when we least expect it. I will probably buy a new wheel when I can afford it, and only use this one when I go out to get milk. 

Please feel free share if anyone has any good suggestions or thoughts. I know some smart arses would probably put in some smart-arse comments, but if you don't have anything constructive, don't bother really. =)


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

They wanted to charge you $800 US to rebuild w a new rim? Mine is a rear wheel and they're charging me 350.


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## chlee (Sep 3, 2012)

Yeah. I bought it online from the UK, and I'm from Australia. Unfortunately I have to go back to Zipp in the UK which is handled by SRAM. It's far more expensive over there for a "crash replacement" even though I pointed out to them that the US only cost $350, while the UK cost 530 pounds (~$800)!


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## ergott (Feb 26, 2006)

I would look into getting it repaired. There are guys that are qualified to do that. Check over at the weightweenies forum.


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## chlee (Sep 3, 2012)

Thanks mate. I'll have a look at weightweenies forum later to see what I can find.

Does anyone know of a local carbon wheel repairer / workshop in Melbourne, Australia?

I found one and his short answer based on the photos was "I would replace the wheel.". Another one from Perth quoted around $450+shipping but have to look at it physically first before proceeding. :mad2:


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

chlee said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Just thought of sharing as I haven't seen a similar post on online forums with answers have been seeking. I have had a similar problem with my Zipp 404 Firecrest Tubular front wheel.
> 
> ...


Smart ass comment: riding that wheel is as good as trying to kill yourself.

Constructive comment: Try contacting Zipp. They may give you a new rim at cost to have laced into the wheel. The spokes may still be OK.


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

I don't know if it's because of the takeover by SRAM, but you can't talk to Zipp anymore. They insist that you talk to their dealers and the dealers to them. 

When I called to enquire into the status of my wheel, the guy on the phone wouldn't tell me a thing, and informed me that the dealer shouldn't even have shared the RMA # with me.


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## Oldteen (Sep 7, 2005)

Fireform said:


> I don't know if it's because of the takeover by SRAM, but you can't talk to Zipp anymore. They insist that you talk to their dealers and the dealers to them.
> 
> When I called to enquire into the status of my wheel, the guy on the phone wouldn't tell me a thing, and informed me that the dealer shouldn't even have shared the RMA # with me.


This is sad to hear. This attitude is why I will NEVER buy another Mavic wheel again. HED & Neuvation offer solid wheels & solid support (inc. answering customer phone calls!).


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