# Contador, where's the love?



## Swish (Jul 31, 2004)

This is not supposed to be troll bait.

I'm just wondering why there's such animosity against Contador

Here's a rider that after every successful stage goes up to his team mates' rooms to personally thank them for their support. Has been doing that for years. For someone that's as great as he is he's very humble. 

I just don't get it, perhaps people just like to create an antagonist for drama's sake....
Seems to make sense, 
-former DDR man Kloden is one of the good guys now,
-you can't hate the Schleck brothers, 
-you certainly have to admire Wiggins' performance
-Cadel 'the shadow' is a shadow of his former self
-The icy russian Menchov, let's not go there..
-Sastre, a timid little fly on the wall.

yes it must be the insidious, Armstrong foiling Contador! Muhahahahahaha!!!!


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## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

Most of the members of this forum are American. Armstrong is American, even an American hero to a lot of people, while Contador is a foreigner. He gets called a punk, a jerk, a whiner, selfish, not working for the team, etc, by people that I assume have never really heard him speak since I never really see quotes that support those assessments. 

The real problem is that Contador has the gall to be the best stage racer in the world when on a team with the previous best stage racer, a 37-year-old American that is on the downward side of his racing career.

Go read a European forum and I'm sure it's a completely different story.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

I certainly don't hate him. He gave it the beans in the ITT today, you could tell he was really hurting which to me means he was all out. In the mountains he hardly looks like he's working alongside the others. To many he probably looks like an emotionless guy, but it takes some inner drive to win so convincingly. He's fairly quiet, doesn't mouth off too much, he just backs himself up with results. My kind of guy :thumbsup:


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

1. I am not American.
2. I am not afraid of people who do not speak English.
3. Contador kicks ass, will win more of all 3 GTs and be considered a more complete stage racer than LA.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

Swish said:


> This is not supposed to be troll bait.
> 
> I'm just wondering why there's such animosity against Contador
> 
> ...


I think he is great - unbelievable talent. I am a big fan, where do I sign up?


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## lucer0 (Apr 13, 2007)

I personally just like rooting for the underdog. Not a fan of Astana in general or any of their riders - kind of like the Yankees of cycling. Something about Contador being crowned champion before the Tour even started rubbed me the wrong way (even if it was a true prophecy).


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## El Scorcho (Dec 14, 2005)

Spunout said:


> 1. I am not American.
> 2. I am not afraid of people who do not speak English.
> 3. Contador kicks ass, will win more of all 3 GTs and be considered a more complete stage racer than LA.


1. I am American
2. I _am_ afraid of people who speak English.
3. Contador does kick ass and may win more GT's than LA, but he is still a dooosher.


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## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

I am not American. Well Im not North American 

As Ive said before I love watching him as he is clearly the class of the field and a phenom. The man is a stone cold assassin in the mold of all the sports greats like Jordan, Tyson, Schumacher[F1] etc. They dont just win they demoralize you, play with you, taunt you then assassinate you. Dont have any percieved weaknesses be it TT, mountain climb or decending it would seem. Id like to see him take on Cavendish jsut to see if he can beat him at sprinting too lol. Dudes a freak and will win many many tours. He has the drive and the killer instinct. 

Now someone please let him work with Cavendish to come up wit ha better salute than that irritating pistol 

My opinion of his tactics are separate from his abilities.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

I'm a fan. I love the way he races.


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## Voodoochile (Apr 10, 2009)

I love a good race no matter who wins but I will say that I'm not super familiar with AC but that dude is amazing. Versus does not give him much coverage either. Phil and Paul seem to be kiss ass to the Yankees. I like Phil and Paul alot but normally they give all riders good talk but it seems to be lacking with AC a bit as far as how great of a cyclist he is. I like AC alot. I like Lance too but it got kinda boring with destroying the field for so long. Lance is a little arrogant imho but I guess he has the credentials to back it up.


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## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

I don't get it either. The doping allegations I understand (and believe) but if that was the prerequiste for disliking a rider then you couldn't support most of the them. I've never seen/read anything that seems like he is anything but a quiet determined guy with an extreme amount of talent who is fun to watch. 

My theories on why have already been explained, xenophobia and Lance fans hating on him since he's gonna keep Lance from 8.

But the pistol thing is dumb.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

I'm American, and I'm a big fan of his. I think he still has a bit to learn (e.g., yesterday's bone-headed attack) and needs to relax, but he's still a kid.

Saturday will be a big test on how well he performs as a teammate helping others.


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## Slave2Gravity (Jul 13, 2007)

Voodoochile said:


> Versus does not give him much coverage either. Phil and Paul seem to be kiss ass to the Yankees. I like Phil and Paul alot but normally they give all riders good talk but it seems to be lacking with AC a bit as far as how great of a cyclist he is.


VS's ratings live and die by Lance Armstrong's presence. I'm sure Phil and Paul are under executive orders to talk about Lance (and the American riders / teams) much more than the Spaniard.

For me, I keep going back and forth on who to root for. I certainly admire Alberto and wish him continued success. That said, I felt the attack at Arcalis was completely disrespectful to his teammate. I didn't have any illusions of Lance being a contender (this year), so I think it would have been right to let him have the maillot jaunt for the beginning of the Tour before reclaiming it in the Alps. The attack was a big F-you to Lance, Johan and the rest of the team. I don't think the same is true for what happened with Kloden, though. I think it was a bad move, but not a mal-intentioned one.


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

He's the man, and probably will be for the next few years in terms of GT's.

I think he gets a bad rap in the states especially this year.

He's always been a great climber that, like most great climbers, sucked at the TT. So he worked on the TT, and he's doing okay at it. There could be some great matchups in the coming years if the Schlek's worked on their TT's.

This year AC's biggest issue is that he didn't accept a subservient role to Lance, and instead decided to win the race.


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## Voodoochile (Apr 10, 2009)

_Henry Porter_
But the pistol thing is dumb.

*LMAO!!!*


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

fornaca68 said:


> I'm American, and I'm a big fan of his. I think he still has a bit to learn (e.g., yesterday's bone-headed attack) and needs to relax, but he's still a kid.
> 
> Saturday will be a big test on how well he performs as a teammate helping others.


Why exactly does he need to help others, he's the team leader. His job is to win the race and as such, his one and only job friday and saturday is to mark any dangerous moves.


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## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

Voodoochile said:


> _Henry Porter_
> But the pistol thing is dumb.
> 
> *LMAO!!!*


I mean come on.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

godot said:


> Why exactly does he need to help others, he's the team leader. His job is to win the race and as such, his one and only job friday and saturday is to mark any dangerous moves.


Because some day he will need them, and what comes around, goes around. If you can help your team standings without harming your goals, it only makes sense. 

Lance won so much precisely because he didn't dominate, in that 'bog dog' sort of sense. A large measure of his success was due to his ability to be trusted and to play well with others - both in his team and on rival teams.

Contador is an amazing talent, and is fun to watch. If he wants to have lasting success, he has some maturing to do.


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## j3fri (Dec 31, 2006)

i'm a fan of him.... i havent see armstrong exactly helped out contador at all this tour.. didnt see him pull for conti at all....


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## Voodoochile (Apr 10, 2009)

Henry Porter said:


> I mean come on.


I like that. Can I use that for my sig.
How's this?


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

AC rules
LA drools


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

i like contador a lot, am not american, and believe he is doping and will be popped at some stage


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

I see a lot more vitriol for LA than the Flea.

I can't say I like or dislike him, I don't wish him to fail, blow up, bonk, or get liver stabbings.

Quite simply, there is not enough media coverage for him, and the language barrier is a problem. For all I know he's a "nice kid" insofar as type tripple A's can be.

But I see smarmy, and honestly would like to be proven wrong.


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## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

For me, it boils down to doping vs. DOPING! Riders like Ricci and Shumacher fit in to the latter, Di Luca as well. I also see Contador in this category. Yeah it's just a hunch, but its enough that I have a hard time liking the guy.


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

danl1 said:


> Lance won so much precisely because he didn't dominate, in that 'bog dog' sort of sense. A large measure of his success was due to his ability to be trusted and to play well with others - both in his team and on rival teams.


Actually, Lance did dominate, and intimidate, and act like a bully and at times didn't make a lot of friends in the peloton. Ask Simeoni.

If anything I'd say Lance played a lot more of the "big dog" role than Contador ever has.


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## Kevy Metal (Sep 30, 2008)

Like Anthony Edwards in "Revenge of the Nerds" when he stormed the stage at the Homecoming Game rally, snatched the mic from coach John Goodman, and declared "I'm a nerd!"...I am an American fan of cycling who enjoys watching Alberto Contador kick ass. His attacks on mountain stages are pure joy to witness. Maybe he's on the dope, maybe not. We'll cross that bridge if and when it comes. I also enjoy watching Andy and Frank Schleck shoot up the steep cols. Bradley Wiggins has been a revelation in this Tour and I've found myself most interested in his performance. I don't feel a responsibility to only cheer on Yank riders. I have to agree though, the pistol thing is irritating.


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## yater (Nov 30, 2006)

CabDoctor said:


> For me, it boils down to doping vs. DOPING! Riders like Ricci and Shumacher fit in to the latter, Di Luca as well. I also see Contador in this category. Yeah it's just a hunch, but its enough that I have a hard time liking the guy.


Contador is doped to the gills. You'd have to be a moron to think otherwise. Walks and talks like a duck...


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

yater said:


> Contador is doped to the gills. You'd have to be a moron to think otherwise. Walks and talks like a duck...


It's fun to argue for or against certain riders, but let's not start getting a bunch of threads in the pro cycling forum sent down to the doping forum. Let's take it easy on the moderators.

If you've got an opinion and whether or not someone doped. Express it in the doping forum.


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## Voodoochile (Apr 10, 2009)

godot said:


> Actually, Lance did dominate, and intimidate, and act like a bully and at times didn't make a lot of friends in the peloton. Ask Simeoni.
> 
> If anything I'd say Lance played a lot more of the "big dog" role than Contador ever has.


I agree but at least Astona didn't do what La Vie Claire and Bernard Hinault did to Lemond in a similar situation. I doubt Lance would have won the race anyway but he was probably stronger than Bernard Hinault this year compared to Hinault in 1984.

LeMond rode his first Tour de France in 1984 and finished third, winning the White Jersey as the best young rider. In the 1985 Tour the managers of his La Vie Claire team ordered the 24-year-old LeMond to ride in support of his team captain Bernard Hinault, who was leading the race but suffering from injuries sustained in a crash, instead of riding to win the race. LeMond finished second, 1:42 behind Hinault, who was able to claim his fifth Tour victory. LeMond later asserted in an interview that the team management and his coach Paul Koechli had lied to him during a crucial stage, telling him Hinault was close behind when in fact Hinault lagged by more than three minutes.


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## d-rock (Nov 26, 2005)

I'm an American. I was glad when he won is 2007 and I'll be glad when/if he wins this year. One reason Americans have little interest is because he can't/won't speak English to the press. 

AC's biggest problem with American audiences is that his name is not "Lance Armstrong" :mad2: 

Oh, the pistol thing is his thing. It doesn't bother me anymore than "rocking the baby" or Flecha's "bow and arrow". I find it kinda funny. 


D.


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## seeborough (Feb 3, 2004)

Swish said:


> -former DDR man Kloden is one of the good guys now,


FWIW, Kloeden was 14 years old on 11/9/89. Not enough time to to be a bad guy.


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## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

CabDoctor said:


> For me, it boils down to doping vs. DOPING! Riders like Ricci and Shumacher fit in to the latter, Di Luca as well. I also see Contador in this category. Yeah it's just a hunch, but its enough that I have a hard time liking the guy.


He's doped, two years ago he could barely TT and now he is beating Cancellara... 

His attacks in the mountains resemble a Sunday cruise for him (while everybody else is gasping, he's an extraterrestrial (ask Simoni). 

I'm wondering when Lemond is going to appear to suggest we've seen Armstrong's first "clean" Tour and this is what he is only capable of.


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

Mr. Scary said:


> He's doped, two years ago he could barely TT and now he is beating Cancellara...
> 
> His attacks in the mountains resemble a Sunday cruise for him (while everybody else is gasping, he's an extraterrestrial (ask Simoni).
> 
> I'm wondering when Lemond is going to appear to suggest we've seen Armstrong's first "clean" Tour and this is what he is only capable of.


He was 23 two years ago. Maybe he is maturing physically.


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## Voodoochile (Apr 10, 2009)

Mr. Scary said:


> He's doped, two years ago he could barely TT and now he is beating Cancellara...
> 
> His attacks in the mountains resemble a Sunday cruise for him (while everybody else is gasping, he's an extraterrestrial (ask Simoni).
> 
> I'm wondering when Lemond is going to appear to suggest we've seen Armstrong's first "clean" Tour and this is what he is only capable of.


Does Lemond suggest that Lance was not clean? _I won’t say the forbidden word._ I’m not saying he was clean but I’m just asking. I’ve never heard anything from Lemond about LA.


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

danl1 said:


> Because some day he will need them, and what comes around, goes around. If you can help your team standings without harming your goals, it only makes sense.
> 
> Lance won so much precisely because he didn't dominate, in that 'bog dog' sort of sense. A large measure of his success was due to his ability to be trusted and to play well with others - both in his team and on rival teams.
> 
> Contador is an amazing talent, and is fun to watch. If he wants to have lasting success, he has some maturing to do.


Did you watch US Postal/Discovery race? His team was under orders to ride hard until their legs broke and then soft pedal to the finish to save what was left for tomorrow. No personal ambitions allowed! That is domination. Hincapie, a sprinter, never won a sprint stage because he was never allowed a train.

How many stages did that team win and how many were not won by LA? How many of his team finished on the podium?


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## Circlip (Jul 26, 2005)

Voodoochile said:


> Does Lemond suggest that Lance was not clean? _I won’t say the forbidden word._ I’m not saying he was clean but I’m just asking. I’ve never heard anything from Lemond about LA.


What rock have you been living under...


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## Circlip (Jul 26, 2005)

Kevy Metal said:


> I have to agree though, the pistol thing is irritating.


Maybe he`s giving directives to members of his fan club indicating which riders he wants pegged with a BB gun on the next stage. You mess with Conti in the peloton, and they`re gonna take you out.


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## lucer0 (Apr 13, 2007)

He Has Huge Eyebrows


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

I wish AC would pound his dominance in even more, especially since he is sort of quiet. Why tippy-toe around being strong and dominant? Why kiss ass? Did the cannibal ever politely win?:thumbsup:


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## Gripped (Nov 27, 2002)

Mr. Scary said:


> He's doped, two years ago he could barely TT and now he is beating Cancellara...


Results of 2007 stage 13 TT:


```
1 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) Astana                                           1.06.34 (48.661 km/h)
2 Cadel Evans (Aus) Predictor - Lotto                                            1.14
3 Andreas Klöden (Ger) Astana                                                    1.39
4 Andrey Kashechkin (Kaz) Astana                                                 1.44
5 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Cofidis - Le Crédit par Téléphone                        2.14
6 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team                     2.16
[B]7 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team              2.18[/B]
8 Sylvain Chavanel (Fra) Cofidis - Le Crédit par Téléphone                       2.38
9 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team                       2.39
10 Mikel Astarloza Chaurreau (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi                           2.42
```
Ahead of Leipheimer, you might note. Finishing 7th seems to indicate he could TT two years ago.


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## pdh777 (Oct 7, 2005)

Conty is quite honestly the strongest rider and most deserving of the win this year. 

However - he cost the team the possibility of three podium placings by dropponig Kloden yesterday - it was his second team mistake in the race. In this area he definitely needs to mature - it seems he has no foresight. He would still have been in first place but with teamates set for theother 2 podium spots. As it stands LA will most likely podium, Kloden not.


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## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

Gripped said:


> Results of 2007 stage 13 TT:
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


Fuentes, blood bags marked "AC". 'Nuff said... I'm going to say it now, two months from now when the UCI finishes examining the blood values, there's gonna be a certain Spaniard that will come up positive, so much for that "WOW" sale.


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

Mr. Scary said:


> Fuentes, blood bags marked "AC". 'Nuff said... I'm going to say it now, two months from now when the UCI finishes examining the blood values, there's gonna be a certain Spaniard that will come up positive, so much for that "WOW" sale.


There was another with those initials busted. Antonio Colom.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Henry Porter said:



> .But the pistol thing is dumb.



Yep... I essentially said as much here in the Pro forum the other day.


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## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

rocco said:


> Yep... I essentially said as much here in the Pro forum the other day.


I don't have much problem with celebrations (I liked Robbie's running man) but the pistol thing takes no imagination. Plus it doesn't seem to fit his personality...


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## nims (Jul 7, 2009)

Henry Porter said:


> I don't have much problem with celebrations (I liked Robbie's running man) but the pistol thing takes no imagination. Plus it doesn't seem to fit his personality...


Somebody needs to tell him he's not James Bond.


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## Circlip (Jul 26, 2005)

JoelS said:


> There was another with those initials busted. Antonio Colom.


Wow. Interesting point.

That wisp of OP smoke hanging around Contador perhaps just got a bit smaller.


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## desmo13 (Jun 28, 2006)

j3fri said:


> i'm a fan of him.... i havent see armstrong exactly helped out contador at all this tour.. didnt see him pull for conti at all....


He did quite a bit. And sitting on Wig.. etc..


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## Buzzard (Sep 7, 2004)

> I see a lot more vitriol for LA than the Flea.
> 
> I can't say I like or dislike him, I don't wish him to fail, blow up, bonk, or get liver stabbings.
> 
> ...


That's pretty much how I feel. I just don't find him that interesting - not enough substance. I respect the hell out of his riding, but I just can't get behind him. He seems spoiled too.



> However - he cost the team the possibility of three podium placings by dropponig Kloden yesterday - it was his second team mistake in the race. In this area he definitely needs to mature - it seems he has no foresight. He would still have been in first place but with teamates set for theother 2 podium spots. As it stands LA will most likely podium, Kloden not.


Yep. For some reason I've really been pulling for Kloden this year, and Conti's move yesterday was an absolute gut-punch to Kloden - just absolutely unwarranted. There's no excuse for that.


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## M-theory (Jul 16, 2009)

pdh777 said:


> Conty is quite honestly the strongest rider and most deserving of the win this year.
> 
> However - he cost the team the possibility of three podium placings by dropponig Kloden yesterday - it was his second team mistake in the race. In this area he definitely needs to mature - it seems he has no foresight. He would still have been in first place but with teamates set for theother 2 podium spots. As it stands LA will most likely podium, Kloden not.



Conquistador's first mission is to win the race for himself,,,not to babysit the hired help. He made no 'mistake'. If anything, Kloden and Armstrong were his two biggest threats going into the time trial...and Wiggins. He gained time on all three(Kloden, Armstrong, Wiggens) by riding with the Schleck brothers...knowing full well the Schleck bros would not gain time on the TT. 

The race is not over. Conti's 4+ minute lead is not insurmountable. That is why it was important for Conti to distance himself from his main rival...LA. 

The only reason anyone would say it was a mistake to accelerate away from his teammates was if they wanted the race to be closer than it is now...so that Armstrong could surprise everyone with a last minute attack on Ventoux. So they veil their real agenda by belittling Contador's intelligence. Its sorta disgusting really.


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## AdamM (Jul 9, 2008)

I'm an American and a big fan of Contador. 

When you consider he's dominating the race with a team focused on Armstrong it's even more amazing.


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## M-theory (Jul 16, 2009)

AdamM said:


> I'm an American and a big fan of Contador.
> 
> When you consider he's dominating the race with a team focused on Armstrong it's even more amazing.



Precisely! 

Ironically, his teammates are probably his greatest rivals.., and so when he distances himself from them, he derided as having made a 'tactical error'. 

The race is not over...but Conti, by achieving the lead that he has, despite a DS Bruyneel whose been holding him back, has already proven he's a better tactician than LA. He's outmaneuvered both JB and LA and beat them at their own game. Well not yet. The race isn't over yet. But lets hope.


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## Voodoochile (Apr 10, 2009)

Circlip said:


> Maybe he`s giving directives to members of his fan club indicating which riders he wants pegged with a BB gun on the next stage. You mess with Conti in the peloton, and they`re gonna take you out.


LOL Maybe he is the culpret.


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## AdamM (Jul 9, 2008)

> Precisely!
> 
> Ironically, his teammates are probably his greatest rivals.., and so when he distances himself from them, he derided as having made a 'tactical error'.
> 
> The race is not over...but Conti, by achieving the lead that he has, despite a DS Bruyneel whose been holding him back, has already proven he's a better tactician than LA. He's outmaneuvered both JB and LA and beat them at their own game. Well not yet. The race isn't over yet. But lets hope.


Yep. 

I mean when you're in the yellow jersey and your DS decides to follow the fourth place rider instead what message does that send? Or your DS and teammate form a new team and somehow forget to tell you and folks accuse Contador of not being loyal?


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## Voodoochile (Apr 10, 2009)

Circlip said:


> What rock have you been living under...


I've been in jail for aggravated battery for the last few years.


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

I believe AC is a high school drop out, it would be unwise for him to dope and ruin his chance at being set for life. 

Still he keeps reminding me of Basso when he won the '06 Giro by more than 9 minutes. AC never looks in pain, he's completely effortless.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

Again he showed bad form and poor tactics in the time trial today. Although his yellow jersey was already secure, he had to go out and win today and display his machismo. It was not necessary and he did not have to go hard today in the ITT. He should have saved his energy so he could assist his teammates in securing their podium spots in the coming days. He is a self serving, win at all costs bastard who has no concept of team.

i kid, i kid... unlike others here.

The other factor to the Contador hate is we're being brainwashed by biased coverage we're getting. Lance's biggest fanboys are the whole VS. crew. I love em but man, they are clueless when assessing Lance's performance. Every Lance result gets a standing ovation while Contador's moves are scrutinized. Ligget, Bobke, Bruyneel are sooo biased.

Also, we've been really molded to many years of success with Bruyneel's smart but very conservative tactics. We scoff at an attacker who is 'wreckless'. Merckx would probably get pummelled by this motley internet crew today.

fc


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Of course people hate him. Why not? People hate successful people in general.

The Beatles are crappy.. Lalalla etc etc.

Mariah Carey is full of sh!it.

The Pats are a horrible football team.

LA is arrogant etc.

Contador has the pistol. Oh MY! How bad is that? Let the man celebrate however the hell he wants. He earned it. But of course, nobody allows anything anyway. Coz it's cool to police every minute aspect of something. 

Oh and, he's arrogant etc etc etc. 

I'm a fan. I think he should be better at addressing the media at times. But I'm still a fan of his riding.

Oh and, how nice is it to hear people calling him a hypocrite and hurl other profanities at him when you consider none of us know him personally and are judging him and saying/calling on things like we have inside information


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Mr. Scary said:


> Fuentes, blood bags marked "AC". 'Nuff said... I'm going to say it now, two months from now when the UCI finishes examining the blood values, there's gonna be a certain Spaniard that will come up positive, so much for that "WOW" sale.


Antonio Colom is also AC.

Nuff said. 

Of course, hundreds of people have been saying this since 2 years ago. Where's the bust?


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

francois said:


> Again he showed bad form and poor tactics in the time trial today. Although his yellow jersey was already secure, he had to go out and win today and display his machismo. It was not necessary and he did not have to go hard today in the ITT. He should have saved his energy so he could assist his teammates in securing their podium spots in the coming days. He is a self serving, win at all costs bastard who has no concept of team.
> 
> i kid, i kid... unlike others here.
> 
> ...


I actually think Contador could win a Tour by attacking, attacking, and then attacking some more. Sure, maybe not every hilly day, but you get the idea. He's definitely an aggressive rider. Very spicy to watch.

Lance also attacked a fair bit last time actually so....


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## olr1 (Apr 2, 2005)

Think I'd prefer to be in a jacuzzi with Mariah Carey over Contador.....

Sorry, thinking out loud, carry on, as you were..


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

francois said:


> Again he showed bad form and poor tactics in the time trial today. Although his yellow jersey was already secure, he had to go out and win today and display his machismo. It was not necessary and he did not have to go hard today in the ITT.


*Team Orders:*Alberto was to go hard in the first quarter, catch LA and then push him to the finish.


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## moonstation2000 (Sep 5, 2008)

francois said:


> The other factor to the Contador hate is we're being brainwashed by biased coverage we're getting. Lance's biggest fanboys are the whole VS. crew. I love em but man, they are clueless when assessing Lance's performance. Every Lance result gets a standing ovation while Contador's moves are scrutinized. Ligget, Bobke, Bruyneel are sooo biased.
> 
> 
> fc



The VS coverage yesterday for the ITT was ridiculous. It was the LA show, talking about his incredible TT skills and how great he was, all the way up to his disappointing finish. I guess they expected him to kick some major butt, maybe he was playing possum to mess with their heads.

AC has gotten too much crap for the previous stage. AC ran a smart stage and it's obvious he wanted AK to hang on, once he saw that AK was dropped he immediately slowed down and never pushed again. 

I think it's refreshing to see a guy that won't bend his will and get crapped on by Astana. Now that it is (almost) official that he is not a part of next years Radioshack team, how much incentive do you think JB and LA have to support AC for the win? I'm guessing almost zero. If I were him I would gain time on LA at every opportunity, all it takes is one crash, flat, or mechanical failure and I'm sure LA will be all too happy to take over first place. AC is only the "temporary" team leader.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Henry Porter said:


> But the pistol thing is dumb.


So true. He should adopt the Judith Arndt "I'm #1" salute and I'm sure he has opinions on who it should be aimed at -


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Since when was being a nice person a requisite in a great sportsman or whatever? Are/were Maradona/Woods/Schumacher/Hendrix/Beethoven etc,etc,etc nice people?

Champions are rarely the type of person who you'd find coming round to watch TV and have a beer with us ordinary folks. They are special - we are plebs.

We can have opinions and views about them - talk is cheap - but unless this board is full of Nobel/Pullitzer prize winners, we are nobodies.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

JoelS said:


> There was another with those initials busted. Antonio Colom.


LOL. Scary just got owned.


Plus I hear that the bags also said DC on the back.

With a lightning bolt on the sides.


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

godot said:


> Why exactly does he need to help others, he's the team leader. His job is to win the race and as such, his one and only job friday and Saturday is to mark any dangerous moves.


Xactly. He is the leader and has won this thing barring any massive eff-ups. (Not likely). All he needs to do is prevent the Schleck bros from gaining any time on him. Period. And if LA is a good teamate, he'll help to that end, if you believe that Lance just wants the team to win....


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## cammccarty (Jul 21, 2008)

godot said:


> Actually, Lance did dominate, and intimidate, and act like a bully and at times didn't make a lot of friends in the peloton. Ask Simeoni.
> 
> If anything I'd say Lance played a lot more of the "big dog" role than Contador ever has.



Amen,Lance had and still has 10 times the ego that contador does or ever will have. Lance believs he's still the big dog and it's 2003.


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

It sounds like Americans are being accused of rooting fro a 37 y/o AMERICAN over a 25y/o Spaniard. Yea.......thats real strange of us Americans. We should immediately dump Lance in favor of the younger guy from Spain. I dont hate AC, but is it really that weird to favor him if im an american? Really?
BTW- AC has said some dumb things earlier in the year, nothing horrible but he isnt innocent.
If hes clean hes the best ever. He's the best climber AND he beat the consistently best TT guys. Bigmig and LA certainly didnt do both, but were close.


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## karatemom (Mar 21, 2008)

I'm an American, and I just want to go on record as saying I Like Contador. So what if he attacks and is aggressive? Isn't that what he's supposed to do? I really don't believe he dropped Kloden deliberately--it may have been stupid, but I don't think it was malelovent. 
I even like the pistol thing--at least it's a little different. We're only tired of it because he wins a lot.

I'm not really against Lance--I like the way he rides, it's just that I think AC got the short end of the stick, with him coming out of retirement. There is NO WAY Lance came out of retirement to "bring more awareness to the fight against cancer." I mean, come on. You can appear on reality TV and do the same thing.


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

karatemom said:


> I'm an American, and I just want to go on record as saying I Like Contador. So what if he attacks and is aggressive? Isn't that what he's supposed to do? I really don't believe he dropped Kloden deliberately--it may have been stupid, but I don't think it was malelovent.
> I even like the pistol thing--at least it's a little different. We're only tired of it because he wins a lot.
> 
> I'm not really against Lance--I like the way he rides, it's just that I think AC got the short end of the stick, with him coming out of retirement. There is NO WAY Lance came out of retirement to "bring more awareness to the fight against cancer." I mean, come on. You can appear on reality TV and do the same thing.


So....he came out to spite the fight against cancer? Because if you have been paying attention he HAS brought awareness and dinero to the fight since coming back. Should he ride real slow so it doesnt look like he came back to compete? Next To Bill Gates this guy is the perfect storm of raising money and awareness for this cause. He's flirting with Billions of dollars raised, not millions.:mad2:


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## karatemom (Mar 21, 2008)

I agree he has gotten a lot of media attention, as well as money, but I don't think that was his primary motivation for returning to professional cycling.


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## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

francois said:


> Again he showed bad form and poor tactics in the time trial today. Although his yellow jersey was already secure, he had to go out and win today and display his machismo. It was not necessary and he did not have to go hard today in the ITT. He should have saved his energy so he could assist his teammates in securing their podium spots in the coming days. He is a self serving, win at all costs bastard who has no concept of team.
> 
> i kid, i kid... unlike others here.


Actually, that is probably not far from the truth. And I love it. More power to him, I say.


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## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

moonstation2000 said:


> The VS coverage yesterday for the ITT was ridiculous. It was the LA show, talking about his incredible TT skills and how great he was, all the way up to his disappointing finish. I guess they expected him to kick some major butt, maybe he was playing possum to mess with their heads.
> 
> .


Yes, I am sure that is it. Always a good idea to play possum in an ITT. Nearly as good a plan as playing possum on every truly mountainous stage.  

The VS coverage of the ITT nauseated me. He finished 16th, for heaven's sake. He looked completely exhausted. Did he work hard? Of course. He did the best he could in the circumstances. Will he give his all on Ventoux? Of course. Will he hold a podium spot? He just might. Do I think he will? Nope. 

He has raced a terrific tour. I appreciate that VS is playing to a primarily (though not exclusively) American audience. I just wish the coverage was not so fawning. Armstrong is one of the greatest champions of all time, in any sport. But there is another great champion now, who may or may not reach the same levels. He deserves the attention.


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## mrbull (Jun 14, 2005)

I seem to hear the same things from both LA haters and AC haters:

He's arrogant
He's not a team player
He has a huge ego
Etc.

They are both professional athletes. Really, really good professional athletes.


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## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

I don't think there's a lot of hate or even dislike for AC. There's just less love. My theory is he doesn't give fans a lot to love other than his obvious ability, which is tremendous. He's quiet and somewhat unassuming. When he talks he sometimes puts his foot in his mouth. Some of this is probably poor translation. He's got a dumb winning salute. He's kinda like that really smart kid in school who's a nerd. Everybody recognizes his brilliance but he just doesn't quite make the social grade. Lest we not forget, he's pretty young and his life from a young age has been centered on cycling. I think he's somewhat immature for his age.


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## mikeman (Sep 17, 2005)

danl1 said:


> Because some day he will need them, and what comes around, goes around. If you can help your team standings without harming your goals, it only makes sense.
> 
> Lance won so much precisely because he didn't dominate, in that 'bog dog' sort of sense. A large measure of his success was due to his ability to be trusted and to play well with others - both in his team and on rival teams.
> 
> Contador is an amazing talent, and is fun to watch. If he wants to have lasting success, he has some maturing to do.


Did you actually watch those Tours that Lance won? Now what you said is really laughable if you did watch from 99 to 05! Breathtakingly what some people will believe.


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## mikeman (Sep 17, 2005)

Voodoochile said:


> I agree but at least Astona didn't do what La Vie Claire and Bernard Hinault did to Lemond in a similar situation. I doubt Lance would have won the race anyway but he was probably stronger than Bernard Hinault this year compared to Hinault in 1984.
> 
> LeMond rode his first Tour de France in 1984 and finished third, winning the White Jersey as the best young rider. In the 1985 Tour the managers of his La Vie Claire team ordered the 24-year-old LeMond to ride in support of his team captain Bernard Hinault, who was leading the race but suffering from injuries sustained in a crash, instead of riding to win the race. LeMond finished second, 1:42 behind Hinault, who was able to claim his fifth Tour victory. LeMond later asserted in an interview that the team management and his coach Paul Koechli had lied to him during a crucial stage, telling him Hinault was close behind when in fact Hinault lagged by more than three minutes.


Thanks for the history lesson. I DID not know that. The story has been well documented and I love Lemond, but spare the history. Also to say Lance this year is stronger that Hinault in 1985 is a difficult assertion to make. Hinault is a racer, Lance is a TDF racer. Hinault won everything in sight, including PR. Lance never even started such a race since it would not pay the bills since Americans only know the Tour. Give me the great Bernard anyday. Hinault may have been a bastard, but he backed it up all year long.


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## gobes (Sep 12, 2006)

I hate his stupid pistolero salute. I wish anybody but Contador would win.


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## JaeP (Mar 12, 2002)

I'm an American and I liked Sean Kelly (I'm an old fart).


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## bertoni (Jan 10, 2008)

j3fri said:


> i'm a fan of him.... i havent see armstrong exactly helped out contador at all this tour.. didnt see him pull for conti at all....


Armstrongs quote after Stage 16 that he would dutifully become a super domestique for Contador was the biggest pile of **** I have ever heard. Watch him tomorrow.


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## bertoni (Jan 10, 2008)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> I see a lot more vitriol for LA than the Flea.
> 
> I can't say I like or dislike him, I don't wish him to fail, blow up, bonk, or get liver stabbings.
> 
> ...


I actually listen to his press conferences, and find nothing smarmy, pretentious or misleading in any way. See any press conference of LA for that type of content.


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## bertoni (Jan 10, 2008)

bigmig19 said:


> It sounds like Americans are being accused of rooting fro a 37 y/o AMERICAN over a 25y/o Spaniard. Yea.......thats real strange of us Americans. We should immediately dump Lance in favor of the younger guy from Spain. I dont hate AC, but is it really that weird to favor him if im an american? Really?
> BTW- AC has said some dumb things earlier in the year, nothing horrible but he isnt innocent.
> If hes clean hes the best ever. He's the best climber AND he beat the consistently best TT guys. Bigmig and LA certainly didnt do both, but were close.


Thats funny because people have been accusing LA for years of doping, and the fanboys are incensed that can even be mentioned about their hero, and now they are saying the same things about Contador and somehow that's alright.


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## bertoni (Jan 10, 2008)

Mel Erickson said:


> I don't think there's a lot of hate or even dislike for AC. There's just less love. My theory is he doesn't give fans a lot to love other than his obvious ability, which is tremendous. He's quiet and somewhat unassuming. When he talks he sometimes puts his foot in his mouth. Some of this is probably poor translation. He's got a dumb winning salute. He's kinda like that really smart kid in school who's a nerd. Everybody recognizes his brilliance but he just doesn't quite make the social grade. Lest we not forget, he's pretty young and his life from a young age has been centered on cycling. I think he's somewhat immature for his age.


Fine, I think LA is immature for his age. So what? LA was the greatest stage racer of his generation (at the very least) and Contador will probably become the best of his, if not better. Deal with it.


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## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

bertoni said:


> Fine, I think LA is immature for his age. So what? LA was the greatest stage racer of his generation (at the very least) and Contador will probably become the best of his, if not better. Deal with it.


Whoa, Mr Bertoni, kinda out of the blue don't you think? A little touchy to say the least. Looks like you're the one who needs to deal with things. I see you've replied in this thread a couple of times but I haven't read your comments so I don't get all the hate. I wasn't responding to anything you've said nor do I plan to beyond this little diatribe. Take it easy.


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## desmo13 (Jun 28, 2006)

bertoni said:


> Fine, I think LA is immature for his age. So what? LA was the greatest stage racer of his generation (at the very least) and Contador will probably become the best of his, if not better. Deal with it.


good call on this... I love Lance for what he has done.. and the surprises he may pull off in the future, his dedication and promotion to cycling, Livestrong, and the future teams that will exist because of him, whether is riding or not. And Contador, the future, and present. amazing rider, and even one day may eclipse the 7 tour win streak.

But you know what, that doesnt make Lance any less of a rider if AC beats his record. no athlete lasts forever. Steve Young's rise didnt make Joe Montana a piece of sh!t. Sometimes the greats overlap each other. Sometimes they are a generation apart.


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## ksanbon (Jul 19, 2008)

*Back to "Where's the love?"*

I like him and think he's an amazing talent.

Here's a partial list of problems, IMHO:
1. Losing his position as team-leader when LA signed was more than a little upsetting - I respect Lance but understand AC's reaction.
2. He's made some questionacle decisions, reinforcing #1 above.  
3. He's not feeling the love from his own team - see #2 above. Is there a Spanish translation for "self-inflicted wounds?"
4. As discussed in another thread, he doesn't speak English.
5. VS. is catering to the American viewers - any non-cyclist you know ask about a rider other than Lance? We won't be able to learn much about AC unless we find other sources. :mad2: 
6. The pistol salute coupled w/ his not dating a rock-star is killing his image.

I just hope the speculation about his doping proves to be false. I'm looking forward to a future w/ AC & Andy Schleck going toe-to-toe every year.


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