# The most prestigious italian frame production brand name is...



## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

Lets see which italian name would we like to have on our downtube


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Pinarello


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## Applesauce (Aug 4, 2007)

Well, I don't think it's the end-all, be-all, either, but I'd rather have a Pegoretti than any of the (mostly Chinese?) bikes you mention...


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

albert owen said:


> Pinarello


You responded before I was able to put a voting up :thumbsup:


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## Val_Garou (Apr 30, 2002)

Agree. There's not much "Italian" about most of those, any more than a Specialized or a Giant. Pegoretti for me.


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

Applesauce said:


> Well, I don't think it's the end-all, be-all, either, but I'd rather have a Pegoretti than any of the (mostly Chinese?) bikes you mention...


I bet you wouldn't mind having an Colnago Master X-Light, Gios Compact Pro, De Rosa Neo Primato or Tommasini Tecno. AFAIK, none of those are chinese. Also there are few titanium and carbon frames still made in italy, De Rosa Neo Pro that I ordered being one of them 
And I share your attitude about this matter :thumbsup:


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## j-dogg (Feb 19, 2009)

one for Ciocc, but I'm biased


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## masterbiker (Dec 13, 2007)

Scapin!


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2009)

I vote for "some other"


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

Colnago.


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## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

I hate Italy but I love Colnago. 

Everyone wants one.


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2009)

In the modern world, either De Rosa or Pegoretti.

In the good old days, either De Rosa or Ciocc.

Looks like De Rosa is the common feature.


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## haydos (Sep 17, 2007)

i'm biased....


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## padawan716 (Mar 22, 2008)

De Rosa or Bianchi - although Bianchi should be tried for crimes against humanity for introducing the ubiquitous Pista. Pinarello makes some hot frames as well. But I've got a Bianchi, and I'm very happy with it, and would enjoy having another one or two.

I, personally, do not like Colnago's "artistic" paint schemes, and that would be the primary reason for not wanting one.


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

I voted Colnago, but then I have one, a MasterXLight from the late 90's. 

I also have a Bianchi, but that brand offers a full range, so IMO, it doesn't have the prestige.


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## Lookbiker (Sep 2, 2006)

Montagner GM0.0 circa 1987.....


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

*Visual Aids*

C'mon guys, what's not to love?


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

Colnago followed very closely by DeRosa. This my ranking of prestige but may not neccessarily equate to best quality. Not saying that Colnago is not quality but just saying it is tough to qualify quality between all those brands.


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

I ride bikes that are actually made in Italy. They do still exist. As for modern large production , I say Pinarello is making the nicest most consistent line of frames. From the FP3 up to the Prince. They are all nice. Then again so are Colnago and DeRosa. Oh well, i'm no help.


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## onefour02 (Jan 7, 2009)




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## Applesauce (Aug 4, 2007)

smokva said:


> I bet you wouldn't mind having...


Sorry, I misunderstood - didn't realize the pole was _actually_ "What would you not _mind_ having?" I saw something superlative, something about, like, "most prestigious" or something. I'll read more closely next time.


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## Applesauce (Aug 4, 2007)

terry b said:


> C'mon guys, what's not to love?


Ack! _Honestly?_ That fork. Nice frame, but that fork looks like it's not doing much more than propping up the frame. (Which technically _is_ what it's doing, but I don't have any trouble paring form and function, which Ernesto happily, efficiently, and aesthetically carelessly conflated when he realized how cheap it would be to build all his bikes with straight-bladed forks. This was before carbon came along, but by that point, I guess, he had decided that he had _a look_, or something - whether or not it was a _good look_, I guess, was irrelevant.)


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## Applesauce (Aug 4, 2007)

toomanybikes said:


> I vote for "some other"


Word.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Well Colnago's the best-known so it'll be the poll-winner. And they're not bad bikes.

But

I want a Cinelli.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

You can say and vote all you want

But nothing can beat the beauty of a Celeste bike


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## j-dogg (Feb 19, 2009)

awwww come on no love for Ciocc? :cryin:


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## El Guapo (Dec 10, 2002)

*Masi? The original, not the new one.*

As much as I love Colnago (own a Dream) and respect DeRosa and Pinarello, wasn't Masi the most respected builder for quite some time?


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## foggypeake (Sep 11, 2005)

*Italian Steel*

1. Scapin (but I'm admittedly biased)
2. Colnago Master Light
3. DeRosa Neo Primato

There is just something about Italian steel that I love.


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## zmudshark (Jan 28, 2007)

Apart from TMB's Peg, I likes me some De Rosa action


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

C'mon guys, what's not to love? ("the fork" has already been said)


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

smokva said:


> Lets see which italian name would we like to have on our downtube


Huffi


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2009)

zmudshark said:


> Apart from TMB's Peg, I likes me some De Rosa action



I have one that looks a lot like that ..........


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## Applesauce (Aug 4, 2007)

toomanybikes said:


> I have one that looks a lot like that ..........


OK, you and zmudshark are winning. Beautiful bikes.


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## Scooper (Mar 4, 2007)

Cinelli.


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

Applesauce said:


> Sorry, I misunderstood - didn't realize the pole was _actually_ "What would you not _mind_ having?" I saw something superlative, something about, like, "most prestigious" or something. I'll read more closely next time.


Yes, when I think better you are right. Italian made Colnago Master X-Light is not prestigious. How can it be, Ernesto isn't welding them any more. Ugo is 75 so he can't weld all Primatos any more...if he ain't welding them all it is just not prestigious. His son Doriano is only his son, so all those Titanios he did over years and still does are just not that.
All that history, great stories and old farts that in their late years are still kicking and making best frames in the world is not prestigious. How can it be? Not all models are made in their house any more. Also having carbon models in lineup is not prestigious at all...why would prestigious framebuilder want that?
But having frame made by some small manufacturer that 99,9% serious cyclists have never heard about...that is prestigious. :thumbsup:


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## bmxhacksaw (Mar 26, 2008)

I used to have a bike very similar to this but it was branded as a Guerciotti.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Pogliaghi anyone? 

I voted Colnago.


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## QQUIKM3 (Apr 20, 2008)

*As an engineer. . .*



Applesauce said:


> Ack! _Honestly?_. . . which Ernesto happily, efficiently, and aesthetically carelessly conflated when he realized how cheap it would be to build all his bikes with straight-bladed forks.


It's a very intelligent thing to do. Set the rake at the crown and call it a day. All these silly looking swoopy, curved forks (worst abortion is Pinarello's Onda) are extra material and a waste of money.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

And no Casati love?


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## [email protected] (Nov 1, 2008)

Bianchi or Colnago


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Bianchi or Colnago


Are you with the shop in Colorado? I just starting using you over the internet. Your service is top notch and prices are more than competitive. You have a new loyal customer.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

QQUIKM3 said:


> It's a very intelligent thing to do. Set the rake at the crown and call it a day. All these silly looking swoopy, curved forks (worst abortion is Pinarello's Onda) are extra material and a waste of money.


For carbon, you are right, but for steel, you are absolutely wrong. The beauty of and reason for curved forks is that it allows them to be adjusted to suit the preferences of the rider. It's not as practical if they aren't pre-radiused. 

It's also something of a necessity for lugged forks.

Some argue they provide a small amount of compliance too, but at the amounts of today's bikes, I'd think it minimal.


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## lancezneighbor (May 4, 2002)

terry b said:


> C'mon guys, what's not to love?


That is my favorite of the Calnago paint schemes! Coming from New Mexico I do like flashy stuff. Just like an Espanola low rider.


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## lancezneighbor (May 4, 2002)

terry b said:


> And no Casati love?


Ok, I have found my LEAST favorite of Terry's bikes. No offense meant, but umm I'll take any of the other 28 or whatever you have.


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

terry b said:


> And no Casati love?


This top tube is cute, but it's wrong


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

CleavesF said:


> I hate Italy but I love Colnago.
> 
> Everyone wants one.


If you hate Italy, you hate cycling. I hate the French, I don't hate France.....


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

lancezneighbor said:


> Ok, I have found my LEAST favorite of Terry's bikes. No offense meant, but umm I'll take any of the other 28 or whatever you have.


Ah, I apologized for that poor choice of words concerning dumping in the Bosque. But you still see fit to body slam my Casati? I'm heartbroken.


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## Applesauce (Aug 4, 2007)

ClassicSteel71 said:


> If you hate Italy, you hate cycling. I hate the French, I don't hate France.....


I just hate Italians, with all their clip-clopping and yelling to each other in all the nice, otherwise quiet churches of Paris... Believe it or not, the French aren't all that bad. They're snobby, but are the only people I've ever met who are _endearingly_ snobby. Their bikes aren't any better or worse than Italy's - though tires are their _only_ superior component - their language is less pitched but more rhythmic and tonal, and they don't have Silvio Berlusconi.

...jeez, this got to politics fast. But, yeah, so, those De red Rosas are sweet.


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## daveloving (Jan 5, 2009)

that's a ++1 for excel sports. They sold me my Gios frames.


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## Applesauce (Aug 4, 2007)

QQUIKM3 said:


> It's a very intelligent thing to do. Set the rake at the crown and call it a day.


Yeah, and that, like, saves you from having to build bikes of different sizes for, like, different sized people or anything, too. What school of bike design/building did you go to? You can get at least a 30 mm range of rake out of a straight-bladed crown. Straight blades save the very skill-dependent labor of bending forkblades. But I wouldn't be too surprised if every size of Colnago had the same front-end geometry... Classy, that. Just... Plain... Class.


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## lancezneighbor (May 4, 2002)

terry b said:


> Ah, I apologized for that poor choice of words concerning dumping in the Bosque. But you still see fit to body slam my Casati? I'm heartbroken.


Well I've just been trying to narrow down you collection to my single favorite. So now I have eliminated one. I think I'm leaning towards the 953 Strong as my fave.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

lancezneighbor said:


> Well I've just been trying to narrow down you collection to my single favorite. So now I have eliminated one. I think I'm leaning towards the 953 Strong as my fave.


From a looks standpoint, that bike is my favorite too.


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## Infini (Apr 21, 2003)

Another vote for Colnago.... 

Though I did just buy a Pinarello for a race bike. It's a cheap NOS frame that's 4-5 years old, but it looks great and I can't wait to ride it. 












But yeah, I really would like to get a Pegoretti


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2009)

Applesauce said:


> Yeah, and that, like, saves you from having to build bikes of different sizes for, like, different sized people or anything, too. What school of bike design/building did you go to? You can get at least a 30 mm range of rake out of a straight-bladed crown. Straight blades save the very skill-dependent labor of bending forkblades. But I wouldn't be too surprised if every size of Colnago had the same front-end geometry... Classy, that. Just... Plain... Class.


You don't visit us anywhere near often enough.

But when you do, you often come out with absolute gems like this.

I, for one, will miss you when you head off to France. Unless you visit from there.


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## Bertrand (Feb 1, 2005)

Pegoretti by a country kilometer


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2009)

Applesauce said:


> OK, you and zmudshark are winning. Beautiful bikes.


zMud has a collection of De Rosa's, but I don't know if we ever managed to get a picture of the two Primatos together.

His is much "cleaner" than mine, as it was absolutely NOS when he got it about 2 months ago.

Mine was used and has the expected paint chips and nicks, etc.

Just a gorgeous bike to ride though.

I would love to get another of them.

Ugo knows how to make a bike.


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## David Kirk (Mar 6, 2005)

Bertrand said:


> Pegoretti by a country kilometer


What this guy said! Say it loud!


dave


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

Just put some 25mm Vittoria OC's . Made a good thing better..



I'm shocked by all the love Pegoretti is getting. Usually you get all the nonsensical statements on the boards about them. Oh no, I may have opened the door.


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2009)

I have a Pegoretti.

Two De Rosas.

I would love to have another Pegoretti, a Responsorium.

I also would not mind a Marcelo.

I would love to have another De Rosa Primato.

The Pegoretti begs to be ridden , harder.

The Primato is just like being on a cloud.

Wonderful.

I would not give up my Luigino for anything though.


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## zmudshark (Jan 28, 2007)

TMB, I found you another Primato, and you said 'not interested'.

Wrong color, too expensive, wrong time?


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

David Kirk said:


> What this guy said! Say it loud!
> 
> 
> dave


I'm pretty partial to my Davido Kirkinello.


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2009)

zmudshark said:


> TMB, I found you another Primato, and you said 'not interested'.
> 
> Wrong color, too expensive, wrong time?


Spill ...........

You have the email.


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## zmudshark (Jan 28, 2007)

toomanybikes said:


> Spill ...........
> 
> You have the email.


It was CL, make an offer. I would have if it was my size.


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2009)

zmudshark said:


> It was CL, make an offer. I would have if it was my size.


Crap,

Forgot about that.

I'll go look at it again.


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## barry1021 (Nov 27, 2005)

David Kirk said:


> What this guy said! Say it loud!
> 
> 
> dave


Are you allowed to vote??:thumbsup: 
I have one of your Italian bikes, I think it's called Serotta. I would rank it up there with my "other" Italiano steeds.

b21


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## roadie_490 (Jun 11, 2004)

I think it is hard to argue Bianchi from a branding and history point of view. The fact that Fausto Coppi rode them just solidifies my position and vote.


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## arshak (Jun 13, 2005)

Pegoretti over the last 10 years and Older De Rosa's before that time. I will take De Rosa over Colnago any time as Ernie gets carried away putting his name on the bike


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## rockcrusher (Sep 26, 2005)

What no Masi love. A real Masi 3v Volumetrica? Ditto on the Derosa.


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## [email protected] (Nov 1, 2008)

daveloving said:


> that's a ++1 for excel sports. They sold me my Gios frames.



thanks for the kind words.... 

they do look nice


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## ciclisto (Nov 8, 2005)

*my new Master Colnago*

in Molteni orange with straight steel fork.
My Colnago C-50 with bare frame, slight yellow pinstripes
My Derosa red and white beauty rides to my perfect satisfaction.

Desire: Pegoretti Luigino Steel lugged
DeRosa steel primato in KAS colors
Pegoretti Marcelo with the naked ladies

no to the Pinarello! weird made elsewhere.


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## that guy again (Jul 14, 2008)

Ciocc


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*for old school*

really old - 
Lugnano
Bianchi

old
Masi
Confente (yeah he built them in America, whatever)
Pogliahi
Olmo
Guerciotti

BIG Brands
De Rosa
Colnago
Gios

New
Pegoretti

for coolest name - Coppi

which two would I search and seek and hunt and kill?
confente
pegoretti


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Barry, Teri, zmud*

you guys get me your sizes and brands you seek
my local shop, you'd think you died and went to heaven

pink and white merckx, hand signed, all C Record

http://www.velocult.com/show_bike.php?id=88

3rensho in Purple
http://www.velocult.com/show_bike.php?id=89

Dave Moulton Fuso
http://www.velocult.com/show_bike.php?id=86

sweet trackies including a pink panasonic
http://www.velocult.com/show_bike.php?id=79

I want this one
http://www.velocult.com/show_bike.php?id=80


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## cocoboots (Apr 13, 2006)

Ducati... oops, wrong kind of frame


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## rook (Apr 5, 2009)

Those Colnagos are beautiful, but I'm really wary of getting anything non-steel from them. If you do a search on Colnago customer service on this and other forums it's really depressing.


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## onefour02 (Jan 7, 2009)

rook said:


> Those Colnagos are beautiful, but I'm really wary of getting anything non-steel from them. If you do a search on Colnago customer service on this and other forums it's really depressing.


can you give us some details?


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## rook (Apr 5, 2009)

onefour02 said:


> can you give us some details?



search bikeforums


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## onefour02 (Jan 7, 2009)

rook said:


> search bikeforums


can do that for us? and post a link to the relevant posts?


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## rook (Apr 5, 2009)

onefour02 said:


> can do that for us? and post a link to the relevant posts?


negatori


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## thelivo (May 14, 2007)

Pegoretti. Its why i recently ordered one


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## kggb (Jul 2, 2005)

If it's steel and the last years then Pegoretti if it's an older steel frame then I'll pick a Battaglin.

If carbon then it's Colnago or Fondriest


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## DannyBoy (Feb 19, 2004)

*Colnago.*

My 'new old' Tecnos. Being de-carboned and done up with older Campag ergo. Nice.


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## Fivethumbs (Jul 26, 2005)

I vote for Bottecchia...Why you ask? 

Well, 1) Because Greg Lemond won the Tour de France on a bike that said Bottecchia on it...
2) Wolfgang Puck sponsored a team that rode Bottecchias (along with Paul Mitchell, and the L.A. Kings Hockey team among others....Team SPAGO)
3) The name was good enough for some company to buy it up and slap it on some no-name, mass produced, Far East made frames.


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## Zachariah (Jan 29, 2009)

Italian bikes look just like Italian Art...and you all know how much Italian artwork fetches.

Sorry, I went there. Flame me later...


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## Don Duende (Sep 13, 2007)

Cinelli and Pegoretti , a perfect Italian fusion of form and function.


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

Prestigious? I see Colnago getting all the votes. The thing is, for big Italian brands, Colnago is has become ubiquitous. Prestigious should combine legendary performance with scarcity. Something that puts it out of reach for most of us.


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## dannyg1 (Sep 26, 2005)

History is the key for me and Bianchi is the Father of them all.


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## muscleendurance (Jan 11, 2009)

CleavesF said:


> I hate Italy but I love Colnago.
> 
> Everyone wants one.


so youve been then right?


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## hindu108 (Jun 12, 2009)

scapin, great ride,pretty paint,rare enough to draw a little interest.


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## Le Wrench (May 12, 2009)

How bikes with just Italian names for the sake of an Italian sounding name?
Scattante
Sette
Tommaso
Vincolo


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## dannyg1 (Sep 26, 2005)

Le Wrench said:


> How bikes with just Italian names for the sake of an Italian sounding name?
> Scattante
> Sette
> Tommaso
> Vincolo


Dont forget Medici....


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

+1 to what a lot of ppl have already stated... Pegoretti or De Rosa. :thumbsup:

And why wasn't Pegoretti an option in the poll? 
.


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## brewster (Jun 15, 2004)

Ok people. I'm just slightly offended Rossin hasn't been mentioned and apparently is a part of the "Other" column. Colnagos are nice of course, but the fact that there are so many of them around lessens the prestigious factor. If every 5th car in a parking lot was a Lamborghini it wouldn't be so special would it? At least Tommasini and De Rosa made the list which are my other two bikes.

brewster


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## Le Wrench (May 12, 2009)

dannyg1 said:


> Dont forget Medici....


Forget that one. Performance, before buying Supergo, had their own faux Italian line too called Tirreno.

Scattante's are actually good bikes. I will be building up CX Scattante soon. Just wished they didn't play into the whole Italian mystique thing and just given it an English sounding name.

I am going to start my own bike line called Minestrone or Fusilli.


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

Here is one guy's collection here in Japan. He's selling the red one but asking way too much for an Ultegra600 groupset spec. What would a really spotless NOS De Rosa Professional be worth as a frame set? (Just in case I ever find one, hehe).


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

> History is the key for me and Bianchi is the Father of them all.


I agree. 

Colnago seems to be selling out just like Pinarello has.


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## arshak (Jun 13, 2005)

Huh? Bianchi is owned by a Swedish bike conglomerate and has been since 1967


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

smokva said:


> Lets see which italian name would we like to have on our downtube


De Rosa or Carrera Phibra.


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## TheDon (Feb 3, 2006)

terry b said:


> And no Casati love?


I like teh paint job.


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## rook (Apr 5, 2009)

maximum7 said:


> I agree.
> 
> Colnago seems to be selling out just like Pinarello has.



Actually, both Colnago's and Pinarello's quality control has gotten better since they've moved their frame production over to China. in particular, their carbon frames. Those frames were breaking left and right before they stepped up and moved to a more experienced Chinese producer.


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

By selling out, I mean all the money they spend on fluffy advertsising and videos with huge orchestral music and fluff. Pinarello is guily of this more than Colnago, but Colnago is getting pretty spicy with their graphics. I don't understand why on bike frames they need to "write" their web address and the type of carbon and "super high this and that." I've never been stopped by someone so they can read on my frame about the type or carbon fiber lay up that was used on my bike. 

Most people I meet say, "oh yeah I want a Pinarello so bad for my next bike". I ask them why? Have you ridden one? They always say no. Will they ever buy one? Probably not as they can't afford it in most cases. It's all about the excessive advertising which would be nice if they toned down and passed the savings on to potential customers. 

I could careless where the frame is made....as long as I know the company designed it, tested it, and oversees it.


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## dookie (Oct 1, 2007)

the question was 'prestigious'? or 'what i want on my downtube'? two very different things...

prestige is all about name recognition. for that, i'd say colnago / cinelli / mercx / de rosa / pinarello.

however, i'm a fan of the boutique...wouldn't ride the aforementioned for the same reason i wouldn't ride trek / specialized / giant. not that they're at all the same or that they're not fine bikes, but there's just so damn many around. i can do as well or better and keep it interesting, y'know?

so, my 'downtube' italian brands:

mondonico (an absolute insult that antonio hasn't been mentioned in 3 pages!)
zullo
pegoretti
gios
masi (before the sellout)
scapin (ditto)

partial to the scapin, as it's the only one in hand thus far. late 80's fillet-brazed ELOS w/full c-record (silver box-section tubies & bar position correction since the photo):


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Masi.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Pegoretti or Colnago.

Although Colnago lost points with a lot of people by having some of their bikes made in Taiwan. BAD Ernesto! Bad!


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

PlatyPius said:


> *Pegoretti or Colnago.*
> 
> Although Colnago lost points with a lot of people by having some of their bikes made in Taiwan. BAD Ernesto! Bad!


Why not both.:thumbsup:


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## rook (Apr 5, 2009)

PlatyPius said:


> Pegoretti or Colnago.
> 
> Although Colnago lost points with a lot of people by having some of their bikes made in Taiwan. BAD Ernesto! Bad!




Doesn't matter at all. If you were to ride a steel Colnago made in Italy compared to one made in Taiwan to the same specs, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I get that some people are prejudiced and don't like Asian products, but the quality is the same, if not better made by a Taiwanese company.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

rook said:


> Doesn't matter at all. If you were to ride a steel Colnago made in Italy compared to one made in Taiwan to the same specs, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I get that some people are prejudiced and don't like Asian products, but the quality is the same, if not better made by a Taiwanese company.


If that is what you think, then you just don't get it. And won't.

To those of us for whom a bicycle is not just a tool...a transportation device used to facilitate our hobby called cycling, it's about passion. And if Italian bikes fuel that passion, then they must be ITALIAN bikes; not mass-produced, or even handmade Taiwanese bikes.

Certain Asian bikes inspire that passion as well, but they were/are Asian brands built by Asian artisans.

I don't want a Colnago built by Giant just like I wouldn't want a Ferrari built by Honda. The Honda-Ferrari would probably last longer and be more efficient, but it wouldn't be Italian.


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## rook (Apr 5, 2009)

PlatyPius said:


> If that is what you think, then you just don't get it. And won't.
> 
> To those of us for whom a bicycle is not just a tool...a transportation device used to facilitate our hobby called cycling, it's about passion. And if Italian bikes fuel that passion, then they must be ITALIAN bikes; not mass-produced, or even handmade Taiwanese bikes.
> 
> ...




Yeah, and some guys prefer white girls to asian girls. Whatever floats your boat man.


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## brujenn (Nov 26, 2007)

SwiftSolo said:


> Huffi


LoOaLa


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## maximum7 (Apr 24, 2008)

> Certain Asian bikes inspire that passion as well, but they were/are Asian brands built by Asian artisans.


What are some of the Asian brands?


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## dookie (Oct 1, 2007)

maximum7 said:


> What are some of the Asian brands?


3rensho
nagasawa
zunow
yamaguchi
etc.

i will own a nagasawa someday.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

dookie said:


> 3rensho
> nagasawa
> zunow
> yamaguchi
> ...


And Bridgestone, to a degree.
Not exactly a boutique brand, but you can't deny the following that the RB-T, RB-1, XO-1, MB-0, etc had/have.


There's also a Chinese framebuilder who sent me some info not long ago, pimping his frames (trying to get me to be a dealer). They were VERY nice frames; hand built, one at a time. Wish I could find the link or the email so I could share it.


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## holy cromoly (Nov 9, 2008)

PlatyPius said:


> Although Colnago lost points with a lot of people by having some of their bikes made in Taiwan. BAD Ernesto! Bad!


I think Colnago did what they had to do to stay in business. Personally, I'd rather they stay in business.


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## Sablotny (Aug 15, 2002)

Going to be interesting shopping for my next frame. A Colnago CX-1 made by Giant in Taiwan, or a Giant TCR made by Giant in Taiwan? Which is more passionate?


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

Sablotny said:


> Going to be interesting shopping for my next frame. A Colnago CX-1 made by Giant in Taiwan, or a Giant TCR made by Giant in Taiwan? Which is more passionate?


Neither.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

ClassicSteel71 said:


> Neither.


Agreed.


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## rook (Apr 5, 2009)

dookie said:


> 3rensho
> nagasawa
> zunow
> yamaguchi
> ...



Yamaguchi is made in the USA. Colorado to be exact, but I suppose that many of you guys don't really care where a frame is made, but really what race/ethnicity the framebuilder is.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

rook said:


> Yamaguchi is made in the USA. Colorado to be exact, but I suppose that many of you guys don't really care where a frame is made, but really what race/ethnicity the framebuilder is.


I can see the race card sticking out of your sleeve. I wouldn't play it if I were you.


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## tidi (Jan 11, 2008)

*i'm biased too,*

cause this is mine. nearly finished posted elsewhere but what the heck.........


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## tidi (Jan 11, 2008)

rook said:


> Yeah, and some guys prefer white girls to asian girls. Whatever floats your boat man.


mate, lighten up.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

PlatyPius said:


> I can see the race card sticking out of your sleeve. I wouldn't play it if I were you.


+1. I see where Rook's coming from, but at the same time, the whole 'Italian vs Taiwanese or Chinese' thing isn't really a race issue, unless someone chooses to make it such.

It's a cachet/status/history issue. Certain Italian brands just have it, most Asian brands don't. However, there are definitely exceptions.
.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2009)

tidi said:


> cause this is mine. nearly finished posted elsewhere but what the heck.........


That is lovely.

I had the chance to buy one of those, frame and fork, for $800, but I decided to be "responsible".

I'm still ticked off about that.


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## tidi (Jan 11, 2008)

wow, good price fir the titanio $800. well i s'pose it was never meant to be and i'm guessin it wouldn't have ended the search either thanx for the compliment on my de rosa i can't wait to get on it, but only in the sunshine for this one. this replaced a 57 TST ti frame that i couldn't really get to fit exactly how i wanted. so i thought i better make the change & build now because my wife is expecting our 1st & 2nd in September...yep twins. so if i didn't build the hot rod of my dream now i don't reckon it will happen later on.:thumbsup:


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## nenad (May 5, 2004)

foggypeake said:


> 1. Scapin (but I'm admittedly biased)
> 2. Colnago Master Light
> 3. DeRosa Neo Primato
> 
> There is just something about Italian steel that I love.


Now, there goes a brand I truly respect. One of the people in the know is Basso, this is what he rode in offseason, his personal bike choice. I'm dying to get one of their steel or steel/carbon offerings.


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## nenad (May 5, 2004)

PlatyPius said:


> To those of us for whom a bicycle is not just a tool...a transportation device used to facilitate our hobby called cycling, it's about passion. And if Italian bikes fuel that passion, then they must be ITALIAN bikes; not mass-produced, or even handmade Taiwanese bikes.


Tell it, tell it, brother.


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## nenad (May 5, 2004)

Scapin and Tommasini are on my list, until then, I'm partial to this.


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

nenad said:


> Scapin and Tommasini are on my list, until then, I'm partial to this.


The poll is "Most prestigious production brand", not "What Italian frame can you afford or ride".


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## nenad (May 5, 2004)

ClassicSteel71 said:


> The poll is "Most prestigious production brand", not "What Italian frame can you afford or ride".


Well, I wouldn't call Gios decked out with full C Record and Ksyrium SL wheels cheap (I think this is what you mean by "afford to ride"). Also, that specific model was ridden by both Roberto Visentini and Stephen Roche (think prestige), but if all value you attach to your bike is defined by money, then please see pics of my other two bikes which will most probably be more prestigious to you.

As I wrote (and believe everyone else but you understood), until I get a Tommasini or Scapin in which case my opinion might change, I am partial to the bike in my previous post.

Does this clear it up, or do I need to draw it for you ?


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## akatsuki (Aug 12, 2005)

dookie said:


> 3rensho
> nagasawa
> zunow
> yamaguchi
> ...


Yamaguchi is really an American brand.

Nagasawas are amazingly well made. For large brands, Toei makes lovely steel bikes. Panasonic owns a nice production facility as well - I think this is where Riv gets some of their bikes made. Their are tons of small bike builders in Japan, and their handcrafted goods are ridiculously well made and often not terribly expensive.

Back to Italians - Pegoretti for me. Much rather have a Peg than a Colnago or Pinarello. De Rosas are nice, but their is something off about the look of their carbon bikes - not sure what.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

akatsuki said:


> De Rosas are nice, but their is something off about the look of their carbon bikes - not sure what.


Perhaps the fact that many of them look like flat-black painted aluminum bikes rather than carbon?


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

nenad said:


> Does this clear it up, or do I need to draw it for you ?


Please draw the picture.


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## Tom Kunich (Oct 16, 2002)

The only real bicycle on your list now is the Gios. Still built by Gios and still a worthy vehicle to ride.

And I own or have owned most of the others on the list.

Gios is the only top end steel bike still being made properly.


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## nenad (May 5, 2004)

ClassicSteel71 said:


> Please draw the picture.


Ok, since you can't read between the lines here's the gist: you may be one of those 50 year old, bold, beer bellied guys riding an ultra expensive bike getting dropped as soon as the pace picks up who try to bolster their fading ego by showing up here and belittling others.

There's a picture for you.


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## nenad (May 5, 2004)

Tom Kunich said:


> The only real bicycle on your list now is the Gios. Still built by Gios and still a worthy vehicle to ride.
> 
> And I own or have owned most of the others on the list.
> 
> Gios is the only top end steel bike still being made properly.


Thank you, I appreciate your comment. It's a 20 year old Gios with all original components (not as pictured, but I have them all). That one's a keeper. The carbon Basso is about to get sold, and the other one is my rain day bike.


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## Tom Kunich (Oct 16, 2002)

CleavesF said:


> I hate Italy but I love Colnago.
> 
> Everyone wants one.


I have had four Colnagos over the years. My present C40 is a good bike but it is stiff as a railroad spike. Unless you're riding at racing speeds it rides a bit rougher than my steel Basso. My Look KG231 and my Time VX ride much softer and they're great as everyday bikes I suppose but the Basso rides as well and costs a tiny proportion of the top end carbon bikes.

My suggestion? If you have to have a mass produced bike go with a Gios Compact. You can get one from Excel (http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?...ct+Pro+Frame&vendorCode=GIOS&major=1&minor=1).

If you're looking for a really great bike go for a Waterford or have your local framebuilder make one especially for you. The thing is that you must get a paint job that says SPECIAL. And that cost almost as much as a new frame.


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

Tom Kunich said:


> The only real bicycle on your list now is the Gios. Still built by Gios and still a worthy vehicle to ride.
> 
> And I own or have owned most of the others on the list.
> 
> *Gios is the only top end steel bike still being made properly.*


That is scary. So the Colnago Master XL, De Rosa Corum and Pre, All the steel Pegorettis and Steel Tommisini's are being built improperly?


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

nenad said:


> Ok, since you can't read between the lines here's the gist: you may be one of those 50 year old, bold, beer bellied guys riding an ultra expensive bike getting dropped as soon as the pace picks up who try to bolster their fading ego by showing up here and belittling others.
> 
> There's a picture for you.


You nailed it. Well done. Hey, at least 4 people agree with you in the pole.


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## Tom Kunich (Oct 16, 2002)

ClassicSteel71 said:


> That is scary.


Not nearly as scary as having a top end steel bike from the racing shop of ahem the largest Italian manufacturer fail in a year. And seeing happen again and again and again...

For the price of most of the top end bikes you can get a good custom frame from a local builder.


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

Tom Kunich said:


> Not nearly as scary as having a top end steel bike from the racing shop of ahem the largest Italian manufacturer fail in a year. And seeing happen again and again and again...
> 
> For the price of most of the top end bikes you can get a good custom frame from a local builder.


Where do you live that local builders are building better bikes then Tommisini, Pegoretti, De Rosa, Colnago, etc?


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## nenad (May 5, 2004)

ClassicSteel71 said:


> You nailed it. Well done. Hey, at least 4 people agree with you in the pole.


Thank you.

Again, you're missing the bigger picture (what's the matter with you) . At least, the bike brand is *in* the pole.


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## nenad (May 5, 2004)

ClassicSteel71 said:


> Where do you live that local builders are building better bikes then Tommisini, Pegoretti, De Rosa, Colnago, etc?


and Gios. Right ? :thumbsup:

I dunno, I wouldn't mind Carl Strong, Dave Kirk, Spectrum, IF, Moots, Seven...mind you Pegoretti is a small artisan shop, but I think you know this full well. Or am I wrong...


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## Tom Kunich (Oct 16, 2002)

ClassicSteel71 said:


> Where do you live that local builders are building better bikes then Tommisini, Pegoretti, De Rosa, Colnago, etc?


San Francisco Bay Area.

So many builders that it's difficult to decide.

You can get:

Ahrens
Calfee (Carbon or Bamboo bicycles)
Roland Della Santa (Lives in Reno but that's close enough)
Eisentraut
Bruce Gordon
Ed Litton
Bernie Mikkelsen
Steve Potts
Rebolledo
Rock Lobster
Brent Steelman
Sycip

And MANY more. But that's enough for now.


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

nenad said:


> and Gios. Right ? :thumbsup:
> 
> I dunno, I wouldn't mind Carl Strong, Dave Kirk, Spectrum, IF, Moots, Seven...mind you Pegoretti is a small artisan shop, but I think you know this full well. Or am I wrong...


It (Pegoretti) was said in response to him saying Gios is the "only" steel frame being produced properly in Italy. So yes, again you are wrong. As is he.


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## Tom Kunich (Oct 16, 2002)

ClassicSteel71 said:


> It (Pegoretti) was said in response to him saying Gios is the "only" steel frame being produced properly in Italy. So yes, again you are wrong. As is he.


Dang! I could have sworn that Pegoretti WASN'T on the list at the top of the page.


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## nenad (May 5, 2004)

ClassicSteel71 said:


> It (Pegoretti) was said in response to him saying Gios is the "only" steel frame being produced properly in Italy. So yes, again you are wrong. As is he.


ok, right, you meant custom builders in italy. we were wrong insofar that we mentioned american custom builders. you finally got your break.


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## Tom Kunich (Oct 16, 2002)

Salsa_Lover said:


> You can say and vote all you want
> 
> But nothing can beat the beauty of a Celeste bike


Here's my problem with Bianchis - Having been around several people that high end steel Bianchis they ALL broke and the way they broke it was plain that the tubing was overheated when the bikes were built. They were good bikes while they were together though.


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## ClassicSteel71 (Mar 5, 2009)

Tom Kunich said:


> Dang! I could have sworn that Pegoretti WASN'T on the list at the top of the page.


Nope, but I bet if you read back in this thread they have been mentioned over a dozen times.


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## Tom Kunich (Oct 16, 2002)

Infini said:


> Another vote for Colnago.... /QUOTE]
> I raced a Colnago Master that had been Axel Merckx's when he was a young racer. Since we're both 6'4" it fit very well. But it was so stiff it was difficult to hold on course on a rough road.
> 
> I also raced my old Colnago Super which was nearly perfect AFTER I changed out the fork. The fork that was on mine came from Colnago but was WAY TOO STIFF and the bike would get super wobbles since the fork wouldn't absorb any of the road forces and so it all went into the frame. After I put a soft carbon fork on the Super it became almost a perfect bike. Too bad I ran out of room for bikes and had to sell it.


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## Brucsing (Jul 29, 2009)

I have an 80s vintage Scapin road bike (Columbus SLX)...any idea where the serial number is?


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## Atomant (Jul 14, 2009)

Well for a newbie or for someone that isn't in the roadbiking scene. The first brand that came into my mind would be Colnago. Then pinarello.


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## PRB (Jun 15, 2002)

If we're going by current lineup then Pegoretti is my choice. If we're talking overall I'd say De Rosa, though I think their current stuff has lost the 'edge'. I'm enough of a retro-grouch to believe a road bike shouldn't be made out of anything other than steel.


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## danahs (May 24, 2008)

kuota


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## parlorbikes (Aug 4, 2009)

Mondonico was not up there to vote for.

+1 Mondonico


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

PRB said:


> If we're going by current lineup then Pegoretti is my choice. If we're talking overall I'd say De Rosa, though I think their current stuff has lost the 'edge'. I'm enough of a retro-grouch to believe a road bike shouldn't be made out of anything other than steel.


Wait.... some people make road bikes out of stuff that's not steel????


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## paul l (Aug 3, 2009)

Depends how you measure it. Probably Colnago although I voted Viner as everyone I know seems to "ooh" and "aah" at the mention of their name and then talk about small, focused, serious engineering approach, custom approach, pros riding them badged as whatever their teams use.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

*Nahhh...*

Polls like this never work. Ppl just vote for what they own. How else to explain Cinelli getting only 2.7% of the vote? :nonod:

And no Pegoretti as a poll option? C'mon.
.


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## MrTiles (Feb 28, 2005)

I drool over Peg's but they are simply unattainable for me cost wise. Doesn't mean I can't lust over them.

Here's my old ciocc (yeah, I know it was missing a chain in the pic). it was too big. sold it off a couple years ago. had the size been right, I'd still be on it.


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## ThinkingOfFood (Aug 11, 2009)

parlorbikes said:


> Mondonico was not up there to vote for.
> 
> +1 Mondonico


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## zkalsent (Feb 25, 2007)

Guerciotti !


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Basso


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## aptivaboy (Nov 21, 2009)

De Rosa, but only an older, classic steel De Rosa. No carbon garbage for me. Steel all the way. That is prestigious. It has soul.


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## m_s (Nov 20, 2007)

Most def Scattante.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

aptivaboy said:


> De Rosa, but only an older, classic steel De Rosa. No carbon garbage for me. Steel all the way. That is prestigious. It has soul.


You realize that De Rosa still makes steel frames, including lugged ones, and that odds are, it will be built by Doriano De Rosa, yes?


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

m_s said:


> Most def Scattante.




absolutely... most don't know the story of old man scattante, instead think it's just a made up brand name


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

I'm with TMB--pretty much...

I think of it in generations:

-first love Cinelli SC 1968
-then Masi GC ~1971-2 the first one I saw blew me away and or Colnago of a similar vintage
--Ciocc (passed on one and regretted it)
-deRosa after that
--Pegoretti if I could buy one now


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

FatTireFred said:


> absolutely... most don't know the story of old man scattante, instead think it's just a made up brand name


And how prophetic that someone named "Quick Off the Line" in Italian would go on to found a bicycle empire....


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## aptivaboy (Nov 21, 2009)

Yes, I do. However, I'm a retrogrouch. I love old 1980s-ish steel frames, and an Ugo De Rosa from that era, or earlier, was what i was referring to. Still, the modern steel De Rosas out there remain amongst the most beautiful.


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## 1971tch (Jun 28, 2008)

Mondonico


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## dhfreak (Sep 12, 2009)

Pegoretti!!


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

padawan716 said:


> De Rosa or Bianchi - although Bianchi should be tried for crimes against humanity for introducing the ubiquitous Pista. Pinarello makes some hot frames as well. But I've got a Bianchi, and I'm very happy with it, and would enjoy having another one or two.
> 
> I, personally, do not like Colnago's "artistic" paint schemes, and that would be the primary reason for not wanting one.



+1. De Rosa or Bianchi. Bianchi? Yes, Bianchi. They make a ton of mass produced bikes that aren't high end but their high end stuff is every bit as prestigious as the others. Besides, I read that they've won more races in the history of cycling than any other company. De Rosa is the pinnacle of everything a boutique bike is supposed to be. Pegoretti makes great machines but when it comes to prestige, even Colnago wipes the floor with Pegoretti in pedigree. Remember that prestige is more name and heritage and eventhough Pegoretti has been around the block, it isn't as recognized as the others. Only the true cyclists know Pegoretti. That's not a bad thing but prestige is when you ride a bike and everyone knows that you have a pedigree under you. Most people have never heard of Pegoretti. Then again, at least you're riding a high quality bike that very few will be riding. Poserdom doesn't exist when you're on a Pegoretti.


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## graywolfkayak (Jan 5, 2006)

Mondonico


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## rockdude (Apr 3, 2008)

The only Latin word I know is Pegoretti and the love #3 is incredible riding bike...


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*exactly*



Applesauce said:


> Yeah, and that, like, saves you from having to build bikes of different sizes for, like, different sized people or anything, too. What school of bike design/building did you go to? You can get at least a 30 mm range of rake out of a straight-bladed crown. Straight blades save the very skill-dependent labor of bending forkblades. But I wouldn't be too surprised if every size of Colnago had the same front-end geometry... Classy, that. Just... Plain... Class.


and it is also simple engineering that energy travelling along a curve goes through some dispersion. Some of it is sluffed off where as a nice straight line.....
agree straight blade forks was a $ saving idea that had some 'science' built for it by the P{-R dept


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## sabre32sloop (Apr 29, 2006)

Bianchi


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