# 2011 Roubaix SL3 Shifting Problems



## mcwenzel (Jun 9, 2006)

I have a 2011 Roubaix SL3 Expert with internal cable routing and ultegra. It's been a great bike except for the shifting. 

Since I purchased the bike in March of 2011 I have had issues when downshifting in the big chaining. I often have to double shift down and then shift back up to get it in the desired gear. My 2005 Orbea with ultegra was smoother and shifted better than the Roubaix ever did. 

I have had the bike in at least five times for the same issue. Each time, the bike shifts fine for a ride or two, but then reverts to the same problem. I have a five year maintenance plan and it seems the bike shop has put in the effort, but the problem persists. They have already redone the cables. 

I contacted Specialized as I am frustrated with the problem and was told to have my LBS contact their warranty rep. Since it does not appear my bike shop (a high volume Specialized dealer) can fix the problem, I am wondering if it could be a frame issue of some kind?

Anyone else have shifting problems with their Roubaix?


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

The Roubaix SL3 is sensitive to set up only. There have been many complaints. I can tell you the design is very robust for shifting. Mine is the best shifting bike I have owned...and I have had a lot of road bikes. I built my Roubaix SL3 frameset up. Its all in the set up. Many shops don't have a clue how to set up cables properly.
If you can better define your issue...does it only occur in the big ring?...is your problem only with rear derailleur shifting?....what do you call an upshift versus downshift?...climbing up or down the rear cassette?, this will help identify the issue. Also, if you take a picture of your front cable routing this will help perspective as well.


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## mcwenzel (Jun 9, 2006)

Thanks for the response. The issue is with the rear derailleur, and only occurs while I am riding in the big ring. I have an 11-28.

When I shift into an easier gear while in the big ring, climbing up the rear cassette, it sticks, and often happens when I am coming off a decline onto a flat. Sometimes it will shift after a few seconds of noise, other times I have to shift two gears and then shift back the other way to get into the desired gear. 

I am not 100% positive, but believe the tendency is for it to happen more when I am in my 12, 13, 14, cogs on the rear cassette. 

I will post a picture of my cable routing when I get home.


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

You're not alone,same problem on my 2012 SL3 Roubaix. Help from this forum has been pivotal and I will never be thankful enough :thumbsup:
Replaced the lousy Jagwire cables and housings with Shimano SIS Sp41 ones ( better known as Dura Ace cables ),rerouted them and finally managed to get a smooth shifting bike. It has really been a very unnerving experience. Make sure you cross cables inside the down tube and add plenty of lube/grease on the cable guides under the bottom brackett.
If you manage to get the SP 41 cables it's a job you can do by yourself,it will take you 30 minutes if you're not experienced at all,30 minutes including unwrapping-re wrapping handle bar. Take your time in doing it,don't rush things,it actually can be a very relaxing job. If you don't feel safe in doing it bring the bike to your LBS and pretend them to route cables( SP41 of course) that way,even if they'll tell you it won't make any difference. 


So,this issue was already happening on 2011 frames and Specialized did nothing to solve it for 2012 ? Bad move,really bad. I mean,I know that for 2012 they've place a new rigid cable tube on the chaninstay where the rear deraill cable enter the chainstay but that thing was not present on my 2012 bike anyway...


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

mcwenzel said:


> Thanks for the response. The issue is with the rear derailleur, and only occurs while I am riding in the big ring. I have an 11-28.
> 
> When I shift into an easier gear while in the big ring, climbing up the rear cassette, it sticks, and often happens when I am coming off a decline onto a flat. Sometimes it will shift after a few seconds of noise, other times I have to shift two gears and then shift back the other way to get into the desired gear.
> 
> ...


OK...helpful..and will give you some further hope.
Far and anyway the biggest issue with internally routed cables...over and above Specialized bikes...which includes DuraAce 7900, Ultegra 6700 and Campy bikes where the cable is routed under the handlebar tape, is cable 'drag'. This impedes upshifting in the rear cassette aka stair stepping 'down' the cassette shifting to a smaller cog. You have the opposite issue which believe it or not is very good news if your bike upshifts aka shifts down the rear cassette fine. This is because the rear derailleur paralllelogram spring is properly overcoming internal cable drag.
I will tell you what your problem likely is, if you can't tune out your climbing up the rear cassette into the proper gear throughout the entire cassette.

1. your chain maybe the wrong length if you added the 28t cassette after the bike came from the factory. Check chain length anyway...at both extremes...you can post a picture of both...big chainring- biggest cassette cog....and opposite small-small.

2. this issue escapes many bike shops. It isn't so much that bike shops don't know how to set up a bike....would say its 50/50...its they are too busy to put in the time. They would rather move merchandise. See pic below. That is called a Park Derailleur Hanger Adjustment tool. Everybody who owns a road bike should own one...unless they are on a first name basis with a bike mechanic. Below is a picture of when I built up my Roubaix. One of the first things I always do when building up a new frameset is check the rear derailleur alignment. They rarely come perfectly straight from the factory (tolerance stack up) whether you buy a complete bike or frameset and unless the rear derailleur is dead straight you will never have perfect shifting. The reason for this is...if the derailleur doesn't hang straight, as you shift up the rear cassette, the derailleur parallelograms laterally 'at and angle'. It isn't moving along the rear axle plane in other words...but at an angle. The derailleur should translate laterally along the rear axle axis. If you are a math guy...this is analogous to an acute right triangle...the small or acute angle of the triangle being equal to how much the rear derailleur hanger is bent. The longest leg of the triangle does not equal the hypotenuse. There should be no acute angle.

In summary, if you can't tune your rear derailleur with barrel adjuster...I hope you have one for the rear derailleur on your bike up at the handlebars, then a high probability your rear derailleur isn't hanging straight and therefore is indexing the wrong lateral amount per each shift.
I hope that makes sense. Either purchase the Park tool...or tell your bike shop to check your rear derailleur alignment.
Btw...if you buy the tool which I recommend everybody that owns a derailleur bike to have in his toolbox, NEVER adjust the derailleur hanger aka bend it into alignment with the Park tool without having the wheel on and Skewer VERY tight. This is because of the fragility of a carbon frame...it relies on the strength of the rear wheel axle for support.


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## Davesnhere (May 28, 2005)

Yup, still happening on the 2012's...see my post here;http://forums.roadbikereview.com/specialized/2012-s-works-roubaix-sl3-277832.html


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## mcwenzel (Jun 9, 2006)

Thanks again for the insight. The 11-28 came standard with the bike. Here are pics of my set up. Not sure if you were suggesting I post a picture of the chain but I did.

<a href="https://s679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/mcwenzel/?action=view&current=IMG_3433.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/mcwenzel/IMG_3433.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="https://s679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/mcwenzel/?action=view&current=IMG_3435.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/mcwenzel/IMG_3435.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="https://s679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/mcwenzel/?action=view&current=IMG_3439.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/mcwenzel/IMG_3439.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="https://s679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/mcwenzel/?action=view&current=IMG_3443.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/mcwenzel/IMG_3443.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Good pics.
First...your cable routing is not in accordance with Specialized recommended routing. Perform a search for California Cross and you will find some background. Go to Specialized website and download the cable routing procedure for the Roubaix...its a PDF document...or email Specialized for it. I have attached a pic below of a member's bike with DuraAce that has a nice and clean California Cross cable routing.
Btw...your cable routing is not your particular issue...rather cable routing affects internal cable drag which is the predominant shifting issue these bikes...but not your issue...you have an indexing accuracy issue.

OK...chain lenth. Common with 11-28 rear cassette and medium long derailleur cage...you have a compromise in derailleur cage tension. Big-big looks good but small-small...chain looks a bit too loose...could lose a link. But removing a link, would make Big-big a bit tight...again a compromise when you have that large of a cassette without a long cage derailleur. But again, chain length is not your issue. Chain length is fine on the big ring for all cogs in back and the big ring is where your issue is. So don't change chain length...or address it unless you have issues shifting in the small cogs in back on the small front ring.

Which leads to the likely problem. Either your rear derailleur is loose or defective...or more likely either the derailleur or cage is slightly bent generally caused by the bike being dropped or something pushed into the derailleur...or most likely, your rear derailleur hanger is out of square to the rear wheel/cassette. This can easily be checked with the Park tool I show....any good bike shop would have one. If you don't plan on doing the work yourself, print out this thread and take it to the bike shop and tell them you want the rear hanger checked. If your bike shop doesn't know about the California Cross, you should do business with another shop.
Hope that helps.


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## mcwenzel (Jun 9, 2006)

roadworthy said:


> Good pics.
> First...your cable routing is not in accordance with Specialized recommended routing. Perform a search for California Cross and you will find some background. Go to Specialized website and download the cable routing procedure for the Roubaix...its a PDF document...or email Specialized for it. I have attached a pic below of a member's bike with DuraAce that has a nice and clean California Cross cable routing.
> Btw...your cable routing is not your particular issue...rather cable routing affects internal cable drag which is the predominant shifting issue these bikes...but not your issue...you have an indexing accuracy issue.
> 
> ...


Thanks again. I will do that. I told the bike shop about the cable routing at one point based on another thread and I think the Specialized Bulletin but they suggested it would not make a difference. I will give the local shop one more try and if they can't get it right move on to another shop. It's a local chain and a high volume Specialized dealer so I can take it to any location they have for service.


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## dcorn (Sep 1, 2011)

mcwenzel said:


> I told the bike shop about the cable routing at one point based on another thread and I think the Specialized Bulletin but they suggested it would not make a difference.


Really?? They think they know better than the manufacturer of the bike? Plus, anyone can look at that setup and tell that it looks weird and can't be good for the cable travel. Any sort of piping or cabling should be run as smooth as possible minimizing bends and kinks and the setup they chose just adds quite a few bends to the cables. I'd say the cables are quite a bit long too.


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## mcwenzel (Jun 9, 2006)

This is the way the bike came originally. The current setup was after the cables were re-routed to try to fix the shifting problem. These are the best photos I have of the original setup showing the cabling. 

<a href="https://s679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/mcwenzel/?action=view&current=IMG_1503a-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/mcwenzel/IMG_1503a-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="https://s679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/mcwenzel/?action=view&current=IMG_1476a.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/mcwenzel/IMG_1476a.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

Are those Jagwire housings ? Either way go California Cross + Shimano SIS Sp41 and you'll be allright,the problem it's all there. And tell your LBS guys to have a look on this forum once in a while...


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

mcwenzel said:


> This is the way the bike came originally. The current setup was after the cables were re-routed to try to fix the shifting problem. These are the best photos I have of the original setup showing the cabling.
> 
> <a href="https://s679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/mcwenzel/?action=view&current=IMG_1503a-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/mcwenzel/IMG_1503a-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
> 
> <a href="https://s679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/mcwenzel/?action=view&current=IMG_1476a.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/mcwenzel/IMG_1476a.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


A lot of bike shops aren't happy about dropping the cable re-routing issue in their laps. It was Specialized decision to switch horses on this...not lbs. It takes a fair amount of time to set up cables properly. As dcorn said, your cable routing doesn't flow as good as the Cal cross...and doesn't look too hot. It isn't your issue however because you don't have excessive cable drag...or you would hesitate on climbing down the rear cassette which you say you don't That means your routing works.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Shifting issues are oftentimes tough to diagnose, with the most common cause (at least IME) being cable resistance somewhere between shifters and derailleurs. 

While anything's possible, I don't think your particular symptoms point to this, but could be caused by a bent RD hanger. If they haven't already done so, I'd have the LBS check that.

Lastly, while cable resistance wouldn't be tops on my list of causes at this point, I'd clean up (as in, cut down) those housings. Aesthetically they're visually unappealing, but more importantly, can't be helping your shift quality. Doesn't reflect well on your LBS, IMHO.

EDIT: Just reread your first post (5 LBS visits after which the bike shifts fine for 1-2 rides). Might lend some credibility back to cable/ housing resistance being the cause, but the RD hanger alignment can easily be checked - and should be.

If you do some of your own wrenching, you might want to take some time to work this out yourself. Odds are, you'll care more and take more time to diagnose and correct the problem than a LBS that's under the gun to get bikes repaired and out the door. 

After cutting down the housings to the correct lengths, I'd start with loose der cables checking (by section) for binding/ resistance from shifter to f/r der's.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> Shifting issues are oftentimes tough to diagnose, with the most common cause (at least IME) being cable resistance somewhere between shifters and derailleurs.
> 
> While anything's possible, I don't think your particular symptoms point to this, but could be caused by a bent RD hanger. If they haven't already done so, I'd have the LBS check that.
> 
> ...


If you read the entire thread, internal cable drag is NOT the issue. Also the issue is only related to the rear derailleur. This is confirmed by the OP stating that the bike upshifts aka stair steps down the cassette in back fine on the big ring fine. This is always the tell if there is cable drag. This issue the OP has is an indexing issue. The cable pull when down shifting is not moving the derailleur laterally an equivalent amount for each cog. As I stated which you seem to support, this is generally the result of a bent rear derailleur hanger.
Above said, the cable routing on the OP's bike is pretty awful and yes it would be good to shorten housings. It would be better however to recable the bike with California cross as also stated in the thread as the OP's bike set up is not directionally correct for good shiftiing...even with same side cable routing. The other possible contributor to improper indexiing is many times due to improper 'seating' of a cable housing along the stream on connections. This typically occurs most frequently under the bar tape where the housing seats to the shifter assy. If housings aren't seated properly, then they can move when cable tension increases when down shifting contributing to uneven shifting between cogs.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

roadworthy said:


> If you read the entire thread, internal cable drag is NOT the issue. Also the issue is only related to the rear derailleur. This is confirmed by the OP stating that the bike upshifts aka stair steps down the cassette in back fine on the big ring fine. This is always the tell if there is cable drag. This issue the OP has is an indexing issue. The cable pull when down shifting is not moving the derailleur laterally an equivalent amount for each cog. As I stated which you seem to support, this is generally the result of a bent rear derailleur hanger.
> Above said, the cable routing on the OP's bike is pretty awful and yes it would be good to shorten housings. It would be better however to recable the bike with California cross as also stated in the thread as the OP's bike set up is not directionally correct for good shiftiing...even with same side cable routing. The other possible contributor to improper indexiing is many times due to improper 'seating' of a cable housing along the stream on connections. This typically occurs most frequently under the bar tape where the housing seats to the shifter assy. If housings aren't seated properly, then they can move when cable tension increases when down shifting contributing to uneven shifting between cogs.


I did read through the entire thread, and assuming you read my entire post, nowhere did I state that internal cable drag WAS the issue (although, it _could_ be) but my suggestion to the OP that he (or the LBS) check resistance through the entire cable path should answer that. If Specs recommendations for ICR aren't in place, they should be, and (as I previously stated), the housings redone. 

I disagree that "the issue is related only to the RD", or that the telltale sign of no cable drag is that one can upshift without problems. Rather, since IME there can be degrees of 'drag', the spring tension from the RD may (at times) be enough to overcome it. And the fact that the OP's drivetrain does shift to lower cogs without problem IMO lessens the probability that it's the RD hanger, but I agree that it still should be checked.

As I understand it (and the _OP_ can correct me) the issue is that the drivetrain is (at times) hesitating on downshifts at the rear, presumably (as he stated) in the lower 2-3 cogs - and when in the outer ring. Could still be cable resistance, could be the RD (defective or cable not anchored properly, messing up pull ratios), could be the RD hanger... could be a lot of things, or some combination.

IMO/E how this is ultimately remedied is probably going to take a good amount of time and effort to narrow, then pinpoint the cause, then correct it. Step one is to ensure that it's as clean an installation as possible, and I don't think the OP is there... yet.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> I did read through the entire thread, and assuming you read my entire post, nowhere did I state that internal cable drag WAS the issue (although, it _could_ be) but my suggestion to the OP that he (or the LBS) check resistance through the entire cable path should answer that. If Specs recommendations for ICR aren't in place, they should be, and (as I previously stated), the housings redone.
> 
> I* disagree that "the issue is related only to the RD", or that the telltale sign of no cable drag is that one can upshift without problems. Rather, since IME there can be degrees of 'drag', the spring tension from the RD may (at times) be enough to overcome it. And the fact that the OP's drivetrain does shift to lower cogs without problem IMO lessens the probability that it's the RD hanger, but I agree that it still should be checked.
> 
> ...


I highlighted where you wrong. But that's OK...you join the vast majority that work on bikes that have only a vague understanding of how they work....including probably a majority of those that work on bikes at bike shops...in fact why the OP has come here because his bike shop couldn't diagnose his issue.

If a rear derailleur has enough internal cable freedom to properly unshift to the next smallest cog when the shifter detent is released and the rear derailleur parallelogram spring translates the derailleur cage laterally to effect a shift, then cable drag is NEVER an issue for UPshifting or DOWNshifting. Taking it further, it is the absolute rarest of instances when cable drag is EVER an issue when downshifting because the mechanical advantage to pull the derailleur to the next position is so much stronger than the spring tension to shift the derailleur laterally outboard. You may not even understand this...apparently not. Cable drag is virtually NEVER an issue when downshifting to a larger cog unless there is a serious binding issue with the cable. When this occurs, the bike will NEVER upshift to a smaller cog in back...which is NOT an issue with the OP.

The OP has an indexing error. This is either due to:
-Improper cable housing seating at any of the stops along the cable path...most probably at the shifter body under the shifter hood.
- Bent or loose derailleur or derailleur cage
- Bent derailleur hanger (most likely contender)
- Malfunctioning shifter...shifter detents worn causing inconsistent indexing

Those are potential root causes of the OP's downshifting issue NOT cable drag...or even cable routing/housing length...though latter two don't help overall shift performance.


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## Chris-X (Aug 4, 2011)

*Good post, but,*



roadworthy said:


> I highlighted where you wrong. But that's OK...you join the vast majority that work on bikes that have only a vague understanding of how they work....including probably a majority of those that work on bikes at bike shops...in fact why the OP has come here because his bike shop couldn't diagnose his issue.
> 
> If a rear derailleur has enough internal cable freedom to properly unshift to the next smallest cog when the shifter detent is released and the rear derailleur parallelogram spring translates the derailleur cage laterally to effect a shift, then cable drag is NEVER an issue for UPshifting or DOWNshifting. Taking it further, it is the absolute rarest of instances when cable drag is EVER an issue when downshifting because the mechanical advantage to pull the derailleur to the next position is so much stronger than the spring tension to shift the derailleur laterally outboard. *You may not even understand this...apparently not. * Cable drag is virtually NEVER an issue when downshifting to a larger cog unless there is a serious binding issue with the cable. When this occurs, the bike will NEVER upshift to a smaller cog in back...which is NOT an issue with the OP.
> 
> ...


is the highlighted portion necessary?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

roadworthy said:


> If a rear derailleur has enough internal cable freedom to properly unshift to the next smallest cog when the shifter detent is released and the rear derailleur parallelogram spring translates the derailleur cage laterally to effect a shift, then cable drag is NEVER an issue for UPshifting or DOWNshifting. Taking it further, it is the absolute rarest of instances when cable drag is EVER an issue when downshifting because the mechanical advantage to pull the derailleur to the next position is so much stronger than the spring tension to shift the derailleur laterally outboard. You may not even understand this...apparently not. Cable drag is virtually NEVER an issue when downshifting to a larger cog unless there is a serious binding issue with the cable. When this occurs, the bike will NEVER upshift to a smaller cog in back...which is NOT an issue with the OP.


If you notice, the segment of my post you highlighted mentioned IME. So, my experiences differ from yours. Doesn't make you right or me wrong, and I stand by what I offered. 

For the record, in most instances (and IMO) you fairly consistently post in black and white, but IME variables oftentimes color situations. So I stay in the gray, offering options that may ultimately result in success to members. They can choose what parts of these options they follow.



roadworthy said:


> The OP has an indexing error. This is either due to:
> -Improper cable housing seating at any of the stops along the cable path...most probably at the shifter body under the shifter hood.
> - Bent or loose derailleur or derailleur cage
> - Bent derailleur hanger (most likely contender)
> ...


Except for _your_ excepting cable resistance as the cause in some locations between shifter and RD, I generally agree. I'm not fixating on the resistance being related to the ICR (but leave open the possibility) as I would your inclusion that the STI's could be a factor. It's possible.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Chris-X said:


> is the highlighted portion necessary?


Need you ask?


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> If you notice, the segment of my post you highlighted mentioned IME. So, my experiences differ from yours. Doesn't make you right or me wrong, and I stand by what I offered.
> 
> For the record, in most instances (and IMO) you fairly consistently post in black and white, but IME variables oftentimes color situations. So I stay in the gray, offering options that may ultimately result in success to members. They can choose what parts of these options they follow.
> 
> ...


Even when you post in the gray you aren't clear...lol. You are simply wrong about cable drag as being even a possible root cause. I could put it delicately...and then you would continue to 'spin it' somemore. Your 'coloration' of gray is where guys live who can't figure out the root cause. More succinctly, what can occur is an 'interaction' of causal factors, referenced to as control variables or relative weighting of causal factors...what engineers determine by setting up a 'design of experiment'. But...there is no mistaking what the causal factors are which I have identified. There maybe a limited interaction...but there is no mistake...cable drag is NOT among the root cause of the OP's shifting issue.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Good thing I go for bike rides. Serves to clear my head.... 

Apologies to OP, but while I was reading/ describing the symptoms correctly, I was posting/ diagnosing the reverse problem - that being, missed upshifts. 

That said, I think since cable resistance was the point of contention, the other possible causes discussed would still hold true.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

roadworthy said:


> Even when you post in the gray you aren't clear...


Not supposed to be. Gray is "vagularities". That's the point.


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## mcwenzel (Jun 9, 2006)

Brought the bike in twice since posting. Brought this thread in with me. Despite that, the first shop, which is my usual shop, adjusted the front derailleur thinking that was the problem. It wasn't and the bike left the shop shifting very poorly, much worse than before I brought it in.

Brought to another shop and described the problem. Head mechanic concluded that the cause was the dropout ferrule, which apparently changed from the 2011 to the 2012 models. (No. 17 in the Specialized Bulletin.

http://cdn.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/pdf/manuals/roubaix_sl3_shifting_fix.pdf

He replaced that part and re-cabled. I have not had a chance to ride it yet but will report back after I do.


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

mcwenzel said:


> This is the way the bike came originally. The current setup was after the cables were re-routed to try to fix the shifting problem. These are the best photos I have of the original setup showing the cabling.
> 
> <a href="https://s679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/mcwenzel/?action=view&current=IMG_1503a-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/mcwenzel/IMG_1503a-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
> 
> <a href="https://s679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/mcwenzel/?action=view&current=IMG_1476a.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv155/mcwenzel/IMG_1476a.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


Looks good!!


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

Built mine from frame up!! Don't have DA but, my bike is shifting SMOOTH!!! I often am out of the saddle, ascending and the gears still shift WAY smooth!!! IME, it's gona almost always going to be cables!!!


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## CitizenK (Jun 2, 2012)

FYI... I'm not able to post links, but if you got to vimeo.com, and search for
23917838

There is a good video: *Roubaix (2011-2012) Internal Cable Routing*


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

I got nothing!!!


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

good thread. 

I have a friend with a Roubaix that suddenly developed rear shifting issue after going for almost a year of smooth shifting. He has Ultegra group. He has never crashed the bike nor hit the rear derailleur on anything, he's easy on his gear shift, he doesn't mash, he mostly sit and spin, even while climbing. Don't think there is anything wrong with his rear derailleur or the hanger. I'd like to say it's time he needs to change his cable set, but don't want to rush to tell him to go buy new cables if that ain't the problem.


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## Devastazione (Dec 8, 2011)

Andy Pancroft said:


> Built mine from frame up!! Don't have DA but, my bike is shifting SMOOTH!!! I often am out of the saddle, ascending and the gears still shift WAY smooth!!! IME, it's gona almost always going to be cables!!!


for frames size 58 up "in house" shifting issues have been very rare,I would assume the same for self built. Nice bike,good job :thumbsup:


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

aclinjury said:


> good thread.
> 
> I have a friend with a Roubaix that suddenly developed rear shifting issue after going for almost a year of smooth shifting. He has Ultegra group. He has never crashed the bike nor hit the rear derailleur on anything, he's easy on his gear shift, he doesn't mash, he mostly sit and spin, even while climbing. Don't think there is anything wrong with his rear derailleur or the hanger. I'd like to say it's time he needs to change his cable set, but don't want to rush to tell him to go buy new cables if that ain't the problem.


Cables OR....he's ready for a new chain, ring and cassette???


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## DS1239622 (Mar 21, 2007)

aclinjury said:


> good thread.
> 
> I have a friend with a Roubaix that suddenly developed rear shifting issue after going for almost a year of smooth shifting. He has Ultegra group. He has never crashed the bike nor hit the rear derailleur on anything, he's easy on his gear shift, he doesn't mash, he mostly sit and spin, even while climbing. Don't think there is anything wrong with his rear derailleur or the hanger. I'd like to say it's time he needs to change his cable set, but don't want to rush to tell him to go buy new cables if that ain't the problem.


Same thing happened to me on my Ultegra Roubaix. After 5000mi or so the rear shifting suddenly kept needing adjustment. Id adjust it, it would be fine for a ride or so then it would go out of adjustment. After a couple weeks of this the rear cable just snapped. I think it was slowly stretching as the individual cable strands gave way. Id tell him to take it in and have the rear cable replaced asap.


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## mcwenzel (Jun 9, 2006)

Well the bike was shifting fine this morning. That has been the pattern though, so I will have to monitor it to see if the shifting holds up over a few rides.


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

mcwenzel said:


> Well the bike was shifting fine this morning. That has been the pattern though, so I will have to monitor it to see if the shifting holds up over a few rides.


Have to say, again, like your ride!!! I am not a fan of getting lower end bits of a high-end brand just to be riding the brand!! Like that you are riding Ksyrium SL's and DA!!! I am running, on my Roubaix, Red/Black and Fulcrum Racing Zeros; love the higher performing bits!!!

Anyway, to that end, not sure what cables you're running but, I've tried Jagwire, Yokozuna and Gore Ride On's. Yokozuna was a little....slow. Jagwire is just plain crap!!! The Gore's have been AWESOME!!! No bad shifts, very crisp and deliberate shifting from day one!!! If the routing doesn't work for you, think about new cables!! Just my two cents!!


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## Rick Draper (Jan 17, 2012)

roadworthy said:


> 2. this issue escapes many bike shops. It isn't so much that bike shops don't know how to set up a bike....would say its 50/50...its they are too busy to put in the time. They would rather move merchandise. See pic below. That is called a Park Derailleur Hanger Adjustment tool. Everybody who owns a road bike should own one...unless they are on a first name basis with a bike mechanic. Below is a picture of when I built up my Roubaix. One of the first things I always do when building up a new frameset is check the rear derailleur alignment. They rarely come perfectly straight from the factory (tolerance stack up) whether you buy a complete bike or frameset and unless the rear derailleur is dead straight you will never have perfect shifting. The reason for this is...if the derailleur doesn't hang straight, as you shift up the rear cassette, the derailleur parallelograms laterally 'at and angle'.


Can I just say a massive thanks for this bit of advice.

I had been having a few slight issues with my current bike's shifting so I fitted a new replacement hanger and the problem was still there. After reading this post I bit the bullet so to speak and purchased a Park Tool DAG-2 Mech hanger alignment tool. The mech hanger was out of alignment both front to back and top to bottom. The top to bottom measurement was quite a way out. Once adjusted the shifting is night and day better than it was. I figured it was better to buy one as I have plenty bikes and If i ever spill and need a replacement hanger I will from now on always be checking the new one. Plus I have checked every other bike in the house :blush2:


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## mcwenzel (Jun 9, 2006)

Well the shifting deteriorated quickly yet again, such that it did not want to go in an easier gear in the rear.

Brought the bike back in again. Just heard from the shop and they indicated the cables running down the down tube were wrapped around one another. Also indicated they increased the length of the rear derailleur cable housing and those things combined appear to have fixed the issues.

Picking up the bike later today. Hopefully this will resolve the issue once and for all.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

mcwenzel said:


> Well the shifting deteriorated quickly yet again, such that it did not want to go in an easier gear in the rear.
> 
> Brought the bike back in again. Just heard from the shop and they indicated the cables running down the down tube were wrapped around one another. Also indicated they increased the length of the rear derailleur cable housing and those things combined appear to have fixed the issues.
> 
> Picking up the bike later today. Hopefully this will resolve the issue once and for all.


What is somewhat difficult to accept is that the shifting 'deteriorates'...like it can change dramatically within a small period of time of leaving the bike shop. This isn't plausible. The bike either shifts fine or doesn't after leaving the shop. It won't take a turn for the worse or better...its not like a cold or illness...lol.
Keep in mind that if the bike doesn't want to go into 'an easier gear' in back...aka climb UP the cassette, this has nothing to do with cable drag which far and away is the biggest set up issue. Increase cable loop length will NOT improve this condition. However if the cables were tangled inside the downtube, unwinding them to a single overlap will help. The point is, if the cables were twisted when it left the shop the last time, there should have been no shifting deterioration....the bike should have never shifted properly from the time it left the shop.
Hope that makes sense.


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## mcwenzel (Jun 9, 2006)

roadworthy said:


> What is somewhat difficult to accept is that the shifting 'deteriorates'...like it can change dramatically within a small period of time of leaving the bike shop. This isn't plausible. The bike either shifts fine or doesn't after leaving the shop. It won't take a turn for the worse or better...its not like a cold or illness...lol.
> Keep in mind that if the bike doesn't want to go into 'an easier gear' in back...aka climb UP the cassette, this has nothing to do with cable drag which far and away is the biggest set up issue. Increase cable loop length will NOT improve this condition. However if the cables were tangled inside the downtube, unwinding them to a single overlap will help. The point is, if the cables were twisted when it left the shop the last time, there should have been no shifting deterioration....the bike should have never shifted properly from the time it left the shop.
> Hope that makes sense.


Hard to believe but that's what happened three times in a row. Shifted fine for a ride but then got dramatically worse within a ride or two.

Rode this morning and the bike is shifting perfectly. Probably shifting better than when I bought it. Hope it lasts.


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

I'm going to chime in because I had a bizarre experience this weekend - climbing the local hills and, about an hour into the ride, I was having issues up AND down the gears. Sucked it up (*****ed a lot) and when I got home, cleaned the bike up, as usual, and the shifting went back to normal. Rode yesterday and, about an hour in, same thing. Only thing that changed...my choice of hydration. Come to discover, as my bottles blew-off some residual as I replaced them into their respective cages, the leakage ran down and under the frame and unto the cable guides. The drink was sticky enough to bind up the cables!!! LOL


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

mcwenzel said:


> Hard to believe but that's what happened three times in a row. Shifted fine for a ride but then got dramatically worse within a ride or two.
> 
> Rode this morning and the bike is shifting perfectly. Probably shifting better than when I bought it. Hope it lasts.


Anybody that rides a lot would be dramatically ahead if they could learn the art of cabling a bike. And it is an art really. This part art and part science is lost on many bike shops...perhaps the majority in fact in my experience if you want perfect shifting. Btw, this isn't always due to technical ignorance. It is mostly due to lack of time spent. Mcwenzel, if your bike deteriorated like you say or lost adjustment after a ride...the reasons are:
-If new cables...cable stretch.
- Improper seating of ferrules..both at the stops and stops seated properly.
- Lack of square cable housing cuts.
- Cable drag..most common but not your issue
- slipping cable due to improper pinch bolt torque
- faulty shifter...detent wheel is worn

You mentioned cable wraps around one another inside the down tube. It takes vigilance to ensure this doesn't happen at assembly. Invert the bike, remove the 2 piece cable guide under the BB and with penlight trace the path of the cables inside the tube. Btw...wrapping cables is really most problematic because cable tension is affected by the tension in other cable. I have seen shops even do this on exposed cable bikes...lol.

Hopefully you are good now OP. Much time, cost and depression can be spared by avoiding the lbs for tune ups and repairs.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Andy Pancroft said:


> I'm going to chime in because I had a bizarre experience this weekend - climbing the local hills and, about an hour into the ride, I was having issues up AND down the gears. Sucked it up (*****ed a lot) and when I got home, cleaned the bike up, as usual, and the shifting went back to normal. Rode yesterday and, about an hour in, same thing. Only thing that changed...my choice of hydration. Come to discover, as my bottles blew-off some residual as I replaced them into their respective cages, the leakage ran down and under the frame and unto the cable guides. The drink was sticky enough to bind up the cables!!! LOL


Good one. What kind of sticky stuff do you put in your drinks Andy?


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

roadworthy said:


> Good one. What kind of sticky stuff do you put in your drinks Andy?


Nothing special - I use xtend and Cytomax mix. Just tried Accelerade this weekend. I think the climbing into the altitude caused my bottles to leak??!! So, back to Cytomax!!


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## Rick Draper (Jan 17, 2012)

IMHO your local shop are yanking your chain. No way were those cables twisted when you got the bike back a while ago. This is where been a handy home mechanic would come in handy. You need to have a basic grasp of bike mechanics, it's not rocket science or brain surgery. Have they even crossed your cables as advised earlier?


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## BikerNutz77 (Sep 10, 2011)

I've got the answer to all these shifting problems, no matter who says they are right: Di2


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## kevinglennrhodes (Jul 29, 2010)

*slight chain chatter noise*

My Expert only has some 150 miles. Shifting is good, but the drivetrain has slight chain noise--not a lot, but not quiet like my old DA 9 speed. Should I be suspicious of the 105 chain running on the Ultegra 6700 compact?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

kevinglennrhodes said:


> My Expert only has some 150 miles. Shifting is good, but the drivetrain has slight chain noise--not a lot, but not quiet like my old DA 9 speed. *Should I be suspicious of the 105 chain running on the Ultegra 6700 compact?*


Nope. It's improbable this is a compatibility issue. IME new Shimano drivetrains tend to be on the noisy side till the parts wear in.

I just replaced a worn 6700 chain on my 'well worn' drivetrain and hear chain noise in a couple of the larger cogs/ chainring. 

My advice is to clean/ lube the chain regularly (and _always_ after riding in wet conditions) and ride your bike _a lot! _


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Gina55wa said:


> I have to shift two gears and then shift back the other way to get into the desired gear.


IME the two most common causes of this would be insufficient cable tension and/ or cable resistance somewhere between shifter and derailleur. 

If it's a new bike and it occurs when shifting down (to a larger cog), it's most likely cable tension. You could try turning the inline cable adjuster two clicks counterclockwise and rechecking shifting, repeating as necessary. If the condition worsens, turn the barrel adjuster clockwise to remedy.

If OTOH it's an older bike, we'd need a little more info, then offer some steps to rectify.


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## kevinglennrhodes (Jul 29, 2010)

OK, my brand new-ish SL3 Expert Ultegra compact 11x28 shifting problem is very subtle. The shifting up and down works fine. But I often--not always--have a little bit of sound on the, maybe 17-24 cogs. Usually, if I hear the faint sound, I can up shift and shift back down and the sound goes away. I've experimented with several 1/8 turns of the cable adjuster, but this doesn't seem to help. Is this a friction issue that re-cabling should help? Or is is an alignment issue? 

But wait. That said, a week after I bought it the slight noise was worse than it is now. I took it back to the LBS, who checked the hanger alignment (fine), but still tugged on the RD a little, saying he could visualize slight misalignment on the RD--not the hanger. Frankly, his tugging made a big difference at that time. But the faint sound still often there. 

What sayeth the gurus?


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

kevinglennrhodes said:


> OK, my brand new-ish SL3 Expert Ultegra compact 11x28 shifting problem is very subtle. The shifting up and down works fine. But I often--not always--have a little bit of sound on the, maybe 17-24 cogs. Usually, if I hear the faint sound, I can up shift and shift back down and the sound goes away. I've experimented with several 1/8 turns of the cable adjuster, but this doesn't seem to help. Is this a friction issue that re-cabling should help? Or is is an alignment issue?
> 
> But wait. That said, a week after I bought it the slight noise was worse than it is now. I took it back to the LBS, who checked the hanger alignment (fine), but still tugged on the RD a little, saying he could visualize slight misalignment on the RD--not the hanger. Frankly, his tugging made a big difference at that time. But the faint sound still often there.
> 
> What sayeth the gurus?


Shifting up and then shifting back down and chain rattle disappearing is generally due to internal cable drag as you suspect. Cable drag is almost alway more notable with a 'lazy' shift as you stairstep down the cassette (up shift) in back to smaller cogs. There can be many reasons for this and much has been written about Ultegra 6700 in this regard. Some believe it is a function of hidden cable routing of the newer Specialized bikes...it is more a function of Shimano's effort to revise the feel of Ultegra and Dura Ace by reducing cable pull ratios. Some believe this reduction in mechanical advantage in combination with under bar tape routing is a bad combination. But...an Ultegra or Dura Ace bike should shift perfectly as many report. In fact, I will test this thesis in the spring as I just purchased a Dura Ace 7900 groupset which is a close technical cousin to Ultegra 6700 for my Roubaix to replace my Campy driveline. Any groupset needs to be installed properly which seems to elude the factory at times and several bike shops with less than competent bike techs. So if you aren't real techy, then consider seeking another shop.

I am presuming you are only speaking of a rear derailleur issue and the front shifts fine.
So that is only one cable from the shifter to the rear derailleur you have to focus upon.

Some of the common culprits are:
Specialized bikes shift best with California Cross cable routing. Do a search...been written about in length on the forum. I also have a dedicated thread to tips how to install cables on a hidden cable Spesh bike....perform a search.

Second thing is...how the cable housing is routed from the shifter....back of the bars is best for most forgiving radii..sharp bends causes internal cable drag. Third thing is...length of rear derailleur loop. If the loop is too short, this encumbers not only freedom of the rear derailleur but increases internal cable drag and why tugging on the RD would help. But tugging on it...basically just helps with offsetting cable drag...so you need to address the root cause.

Last thing and critical is...if ferrules aren't seated and cable housings aren't cut square you will get a lot of in between cog shifting because in effect the cable is always changing length based upon cable tension with poor housing seating. You may even have the cables double crossed inside the down tube...need to inspect with a pen light.

Some pictures of your set up will reveal a bit of what is going on. 
Again...if the rear derailleur is lazy shifting down the cassette to smaller cogs, this is generally the ear mark of high internal cable drag and afore mentioned is generally the basis.

Hope that helps.


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## SkiRacer55 (Apr 29, 2005)

*Oh fooey...*

...I'm glad I came across this thread, but I really don't know what to do next. The details:

- 2012 Roubaix SL3 Pro frameset

- All SRAM Force except RD, which is SRAM X0 mountain bike RD. I know, why did I do this if all I wanted was 11-28 with a 50/34 compact double? At the time I got the bike (July 2012) Force WiFli wasn't available, so the recommended alternative...this from a Specialized concept store...was the X0. I almost wish I had just gotten a SRAM Rival WiFli, and I may go back to that.

- I believe it's California Cross cabled, the cable housing is Gore Ride-On, dunno what the cables are, there is a barrel adjuster in the housing for the RD just below the lever.

- Shifting was okay for about the first 200 miles, then it went off. Not clean in either direction, lots of skipping, etc. I have a 2008 Roubaix with external routing and an Apex RD, never a problem, shifts very smoothly. 

Back to the 2012. I *thought* I was able to dial out the problems with the barrel adjuster, but they're back again. So it could be any or all of the stuff that Roadworthy talks about. I don't feel like driving 60 miles back to the original dealer, there's a Spesh store 20 minutes away where I got the 2008 that seems to do decent work, so I think I'll go up there and see what they come up with. 

So what's my problem? Wrong RD? Cable problems? Der alignment? Any thoughts are greatly appreciated. It's a great bike, now if I can just get the damned thing to shift properly, I'll be happy...


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

SkiRacer55 said:


> ...I'm glad I came across this thread, but I really don't know what to do next. The details:
> 
> - 2012 Roubaix SL3 Pro frameset
> 
> ...


The good news is Sram road and mtb 10 speed stuff is cross compatible...same cable pull ratio so your combo should work on paper.
What would I do in your shoes? I would strip off the gore rear derailleur cable and start over. Hard to say where your internal cable drag is coming from. Of all groupsets, Sram is the 'least' sensitive to cable drag so something is wrong in your set up. Either you have a missing straw aka guide at one the Internal cable ports...or your ferrules are dragging on the cable...I ream the O-rings out of mine for lowest possible friction....or your cables aren't seated which is a common mistake...or your rear loop is too short...could be all or combination of the above. I am not a fan of Gore and any foo foo cables. Go with factory Sram cable....Sram uses a stout rear derailleur spring unlike Campy and Shimano which both shift with a bit more finesse and less of wam bam like Sram.
If you can't re-cable the bike then you are going to have to find somebody who can. A further tip to reduce cable drag for the 'rear' derailleur....get rid of the in line cable adjuster. Adjust the cable at the rear derailleur. I suggest this for all groupsets. You do need to use an in line connector in front. Sram is notorious for being a bit finicky to dial in the front derailleur but not the rear....it should shift solidly and with authority.
Make sure you have a nice big loop in back.
Really its all in the execution. I work on the bikes of my closest riding buddies to dial them in just right. They never shift right after coming from a bike shop which either don't have the time or the expertise to do it right.
Good luck.
PS: It could indeed be the hanger is misaligned. This is perhaps one of the least checked things. If you haven't had yours checked, then do this before pulling off the cable. I have written a bit about it if you check through some of my older posts.


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## SkiRacer55 (Apr 29, 2005)

Thanks, roadworthy. Here's what I did: the barrel adjust was at the limit, so I backed it down halfway, then I shifted down to the smallest cog and unclamped the cable at the RD. The cable *seemed* to be running fine. So I pulled the cable tight and reclamped it...then minor adjustments with the barrel adjust. It seems to be shifting fine on the stand...we'll see when I get out on the road today. Thanks for your help, and if this doesn't fix it, I'll go the long route with some of your other suggestions...


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## SkiRacer55 (Apr 29, 2005)

*Success...*



SkiRacer55 said:


> Thanks, roadworthy. Here's what I did: the barrel adjust was at the limit, so I backed it down halfway, then I shifted down to the smallest cog and unclamped the cable at the RD. The cable *seemed* to be running fine. So I pulled the cable tight and reclamped it...then minor adjustments with the barrel adjust. It seems to be shifting fine on the stand...we'll see when I get out on the road today. Thanks for your help, and if this doesn't fix it, I'll go the long route with some of your other suggestions...



...I went for the simple fix, and it worked. Per what roadworthy says, if you're cable is lacking tension (and mine was, big time), the first place to fix it is at the attachment to the deraileur. I did, and my shifting is once again precise, up and down...


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## kevinglennrhodes (Jul 29, 2010)

roadworthy said:


> Shifting up and then shifting back down and chain rattle disappearing is generally due to internal cable drag as you suspect. Cable drag is almost alway more notable with a 'lazy' shift as you stairstep down the cassette (up shift) in back to smaller cogs. There can be many reasons for this and much has been written about Ultegra 6700 in this regard. Some believe it is a function of hidden cable routing of the newer Specialized bikes...it is more a function of Shimano's effort to revise the feel of Ultegra and Dura Ace by reducing cable pull ratios. Some believe this reduction in mechanical advantage in combination with under bar tape routing is a bad combination. But...an Ultegra or Dura Ace bike should shift perfectly as many report. In fact, I will test this thesis in the spring as I just purchased a Dura Ace 7900 groupset which is a close technical cousin to Ultegra 6700 for my Roubaix to replace my Campy driveline. Any groupset needs to be installed properly which seems to elude the factory at times and several bike shops with less than competent bike techs. So if you aren't real techy, then consider seeking another shop.
> 
> I am presuming you are only speaking of a rear derailleur issue and the front shifts fine.
> So that is only one cable from the shifter to the rear derailleur you have to focus upon.
> ...



Yes, I've been scouring this and other posts for comprehensive info before posting. 

I'll pay closer attention, but my memory/sense is that the "lazy" part of the shifting is more often on the downshift. That is, down the cassette to one of the larger cogs is where the slight noise might start, then upshifting and then downshifting back corrects it. 

I did some retaping and some repositioning of cables, which might have helped a little. The shifter cables are indeed on the back of the bars, while the brake cables are off the front. They are properly crossed in front, before long I'll check the crossing in the downtube.

The RD cable housing does indeed look short and tight to me. Is there a pic of a generously but RD cable? 

I don't distrust the LBS, but I MUCH prefer to learn to do stuff myself than pay up. I have enough left over Gore brake and shift housing to redo it during the slower EOY days. Just hate to feel the need to on a new $4K bike.


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## kevinglennrhodes (Jul 29, 2010)

BTW, are DA shift cables teflon-coated? Would you settle for Novara teflon coated cales from REI?


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

kevinglennrhodes said:


> Yes, I've been scouring this and other posts for comprehensive info before posting.
> 
> I'll pay closer attention, but my memory/sense is that the "lazy" part of the shifting is more often on the downshift. That is, down the cassette to one of the larger cogs is where the slight noise might start, then upshifting and then downshifting back corrects it.
> 
> ...


The more you learn, the more you will distrust your lbs.  I want to say up front that many if not most bike shop's are well intentioned, but many don't do a very good job on bike maintenance and in particular cable set up and derailleur tuning. It takes time to do it right and best to not be distracted.
Below is a pic of a my Campy bike with a good loop length. For best shifting you want a nice generous loop. Btw, I could not accomplish this with a stock Campy derailleur cable as it was too short on my XL Roubaix. I had to go with a Jagwire Ripcord cable which btw is excellent. The Jagwire cable is available in 2300mm length so I could make the loop nice and generous. If you check out the pro peleton, you will see long loops as the best wrenchs that work on the finest pro race bikes understand this matters to shift performance. Poor shifting which is reported all over the web many times is attributed to a stack up of friction from many places talked about. Friction is basically additive from all the contributing factors.


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## kevinglennrhodes (Jul 29, 2010)

Thanks, Roadworthy. My rear cable appears to be too short/tight. I'll fix it during late yr Holidays. Again, about cables, is "teflon coated" important? Are the DA cables such?


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

kevinglennrhodes said:


> Thanks, Roadworthy. My rear cable appears to be too short/tight. I'll fix it during late yr Holidays. Again, about cables, is "teflon coated" important? Are the DA cables such?


DA cables are excellent and on a par with Campy's cable set. The housing of the DA cable set uses a teflon coating...but the internal cables themselves are stainless steel without coating. This works fine btw. But...Jagwire Ripcord does coat their cables and I can attest they work great in either Campy or DA SP-41 housing.
I am not a fan of foo foo boutique cables FWIW. No need to spend more than the stock stuff which works fine. Rather...its about how nicely you set up the cables, routing etc.
Best tip is...if you don't ride a lot in inclement weather...I personally don't....then ream out the metal or plastic cable ends. This reduces the drag of the end cap O-ring on the cable.
Have fun.


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## kevinglennrhodes (Jul 29, 2010)

.then ream out the metal or plastic cable ends. This reduces the drag of the end cap O-ring on the cable.


Are you saying make the hole bigger in each end cap---where the cable passes through? With a drill/bit, or what?


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

kevinglennrhodes said:


> .then ream out the metal or plastic cable ends. This reduces the drag of the end cap O-ring on the cable.
> 
> 
> Are you saying make the hole bigger in each end cap---where the cable passes through? With a drill/bit, or what?


Yes. Basically choose a drill size about the same as the hole size in the end of the small cap be it metal or plastic. When you run the drill in there...it will grab the soft rubber O-ring in there and tear it out. The O-ring places interference on the cable and they cumulatively add to drag...typically there are four or so in the stream of the cable routing...one at the shimano shifter, on into the internal cable port and two on the loop.
This friction adds up and restricts cable pull. However...if you ride in poor weather, these little O-rings help seal the cable housing from contamination. So decision to do this is really based upon how you ride your bike. Sram with its higher derailleur spring rates is less affected by cable friction compared to Shimano which has the smallest cable pull ratio and Campy whose derailleur spring rates are choosen to minimize lever shift forces.


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## kevinglennrhodes (Jul 29, 2010)

Huh. Never occured to me that there were rubber O-rings in there. But makes sense for protection from the elements. All very interesting stuff.

Don't purposely ride in the wet---have a beater bike for that---but do get caught in the rain every once in a while with my good bike. BTW, that bike is a 22+ yr old Klein Quantum 7 speed with 600 downtube shifters. But a pretty darn nice-working beater bike!


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## kevinglennrhodes (Jul 29, 2010)

*.5 spacer between RD and hanger*

Lennard Zinn has some info about Roubaix shifting on Velonews at 
Technical FAQ with Lennard Zinn: Cyclometer on

A reader said that this .5 spacer is provided on Ultegra bikes and needed for good shifting. Zinn wrote this:

"I asked Nic Sims, the global marketing manager for Specialized Bicycles, about this. He told me: “There was a kit that is available from the customer service department that would rectify shifting problems with Roubaixes. The shim was a small piece that was used for SRAM only, and it pushed the derailleur over so that it would shift down into the 11 better.” But if I understand you correctly, apparently it came with both in SRAM and Shimano bikes in some cases. Adding space between the derailleur and the hanger increases the spring tension and essentially makes a derailleur pull harder on the cable."

Does this spacer indeed come on Ultegra Roubaixs? Theory of increasing spring tension is compelling.


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## Jaydot (Aug 17, 2012)

*Roubaix Shifting issue - bad bike build!*

Hi There,

Thought I'd share my shifting problems with you...thanks to this forum it seems to be working! Last year I bought an 2011 Roubaix expert with Ultegra. People kept telling me how I'd notice the amazing difference from the Tiagra on my Tricross Sport. I never thought the Ultegra was better, found it rather stiff and not accurate compared to my Tiagra. After around 10 months shifting became a real problem, couldn't get it adjusted properly. Took it to LBS spesh dealer who replaced the rear cable and told me it was a bit "spongy". It was no better! I disconnected the rear cable and noticed that the LBS had left off the plastic noodle part of the top hat and the cable was effectively rubbing the inside of the carbon frame! I know it was there before. I completely stripped the cables out and found the following:

No California Cross...although bulletin had been issued. Cable lengths were really long.

The sleeve inserts on all the ICR stops (gear and brake) were missing resulting in the cable sawing a deep groove in the gear ICR creating real drag - hence why it got progressively worse over time.

The gear cables routed on the inside of the bars.

The bike was originally bought from Evans...AVOID Them they are useless. All the above apart from the missing noodle was from the original build. Spesh sent me replacement parts within days but decided Evans should do the same. After 6 weeks and a bag of the wrong (but useful!) parts I am still waiting......

Re-did all the cabling, CC etc, so now the bikes works really well, much more accurate but time will tell, but I don't think it will ever feel as "light" to shift as with external cable. routing.

Looking at the pic of the rear loop.....what length is that, do you have a dimension?

Thanks again for the great help from this forum.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Jaydot said:


> Hi There,
> 
> Thought I'd share my shifting problems with you...thanks to this forum it seems to be working! Last year I bought an 2011 Roubaix expert with Ultegra. People kept telling me how I'd notice the amazing difference from the Tiagra on my Tricross Sport. I never thought the Ultegra was better, found it rather stiff and not accurate compared to my Tiagra. After around 10 months shifting became a real problem, couldn't get it adjusted properly. Took it to LBS spesh dealer who replaced the rear cable and told me it was a bit "spongy". It was no better! I disconnected the rear cable and noticed that the LBS had left off the plastic noodle part of the top hat and the cable was effectively rubbing the inside of the carbon frame! I know it was there before. I completely stripped the cables out and found the following:
> 
> ...


Welcome to the forum and thanks for your post. I can tell you that you basically reinforce a couple of things. That bike shops are complicit in many of the Roubaix shifting woes reported here...due to either negligence or incompetence and set up basically trumps the bike frame itself. I want to give you assurance that my Campy built Roubaix shifts better than the Look roadbike I owned previously with exposed routing with the identical groupset. So it ain't the bike in other words...if proper attention is made to the set up.

I measured the loop in back and mine measures 295mm. FWIW, I had a shorter loop back there intially. I believe the RD shifts better with a longer loop but this is only my perception and I can't quantify it further.

A question please. Your set up has to be one of the most negligent I have heard of coming from a bike shop...reprehensible really. For those that want to order the small pieces for cable routing like the rear noodle and small sleeves that are inserted inside the ICR ports...can these small parts be ordered directly from Specialized do you know? If so, how is this done?

Thanks.


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## Jaydot (Aug 17, 2012)

roadworthy said:


> Welcome to the forum and thanks for your post. I can tell you that you basically reinforce a couple of things. That bike shops are complicit in many of the Roubaix shifting woes reported here...due to either negligence or incompetence and set up basically trumps the bike frame itself. I want to give you assurance that my Campy built Roubaix shifts better than the Look roadbike I owned previously with exposed routing with the identical groupset. So it ain't the bike in other words...if proper attention is made to the set up.
> 
> I measured the loop in back and mine measures 295mm. FWIW, I had a shorter loop back there intially. I believe the RD shifts better with a longer loop but this is only my perception and I can't quantify it further.
> 
> ...


Hi ,

Thanks for the info, I did increase the loop and it made quite a difference, just wanted to compare...see if it was of similar length.

Regarding the parts, I emailed spesh support in the UK, got the contact from their web page. Told them about the bad bike build and the damage to the parts and they just sent them free! excellent service.

Cheers
Jim


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## hipo_p51 (Jul 6, 2012)

I have a brand new tarmac sl4 with only 200 miles or so on it. the RD still needs a litle attention. however when I look straight down at the RD the carbon cage (DA-7900) it appears the cage is not straight. The problems I have seen are occasional ghost shifts when out of the saddle and noise from the rear cassette that will sometimes go away if I nudge the lever a little or up-shift and down shift again (or vice-versa).

I will be taking it back to the LBS that did the build soon, waiting on new stem that will replace the shops loner. hopefully they can sort out these problems out. This will be the third adjustment of the RD.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Jaydot said:


> Hi ,
> 
> Thanks for the info, I did increase the loop and it made quite a difference, just wanted to compare...see if it was of similar length.
> 
> ...


Jim...are you located in the UK?


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## Jaydot (Aug 17, 2012)

roadworthy said:


> Jim...are you located in the UK?


Yep, In Dundee.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

hipo_p51 said:


> I have a brand new tarmac sl4 with only 200 miles or so on it. the RD still needs a litle attention. however when I look straight down at the RD the carbon cage (DA-7900) it appears the cage is not straight. The problems I have seen are occasional ghost shifts when out of the saddle and noise from the rear cassette that will sometimes go away if I nudge the lever a little or up-shift and down shift again (or vice-versa).
> 
> I will be taking it back to the LBS that did the build soon, waiting on new stem that will replace the shops loner. hopefully they can sort out these problems out. This will be the third adjustment of the RD.


Make sure you have your lbs remove the rear derailler and put a Park alignment tool on the bike. This is clearly the next step based upon what you wrote. Next step is adjustment....you can either do this by inverting the bike and checking the hanger cog wheel alignment to say the third smallest cog....or placing the bike on a stand.
A tip for the RD 7900...I just bought a DA groupset...per the service manual available on line via PDF.... light lateral pressure on the RH brake handle without effecting a shift should induce a chain rattle when in the 3rd smallest cog. If you don't get this...then your derailleur is likely out of tune. 
Good luck.


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