# Michelin Mud 2 or Stans The Raven tubeless?



## fallzboater (Feb 16, 2003)

These are my current two local choices. Which would you choose to run tubeless on A23s with Stans rubber strips and sealant? Race tire for wet NW conditions (Cross Crusade).


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Ravens in the mud, hahahaha, might as well run slicks. Michelin Mud is the go too wet weather clincher.


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## goneskiian (Jan 13, 2005)

Muds work great tubeless. I've run them a few times with no issues. I'm in the NW too (Seattle) and am 200 lbs nekkid so run a bit more pressure. I've talked with another larger dude from the Inland NW (CDA) and he's got the muds down to the low 30's tubeless with no burping.

Cheers!


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## fallzboater (Feb 16, 2003)

Thanks, I'll go with the Muds for this season. I haven't seen the Ravens, but I can get them a bit cheaper so it was worth considering. I've been running the Piranhas, which are not at all good in the wet. I'm about 185 and can run the Piranhas in the low 30s, but I'll have to see what I can get away with, with the Muds.


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## goneskiian (Jan 13, 2005)

Muds for sure in the NW. Great all around tire for here. 

I need to try my Muds a bit lower. I've been running them in the upper 30's but I think I can get away with lower. Not sure It'll happen this season though as I just glued up a couple sets of Specialized tubies. :smilewinkgrin:

Good luck!


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## Magdaddy (Feb 23, 2007)

I just started running a set of Mud 2's this season. I have been running an older WTB Interwolf 700x38 tire for many years-thru the last two cross bikes. I couldn;t convert the WTB's with Stan's strips, and can't convert the Mud 2's either. The problem isn't the tires, it's the wheelset I'm currently running-the Velocity rim must be a tad small. Both tires can be easily put on and taken off almost without tire levers...especially the WTB"S. 

I confidently ran the 38's as low as 30.5psi, with absolutely no issues. Condition's dictated that pressure naturally, but multiple seasons of cross racing and practices with no flats. I have been able to get the Mud's down to 31.5 front, and 32-32.5 rear, with no problems. Honestly, they don't feel as hooked up as the WTB's, but between tire and smaller tube, I shaved almost 1/2 lb of rotational weight off.

So, I'm sticking with the muds, running tubes for now. I've thought about another wheelset-but since I'm running BB7 mechanical discs-it would be a significant $$ to get a lighter set than I got now. Current set up is the Velocity disc specific rims, DT Swiss 240 hubs, built up by Dave Thomas at Speed Dream wheels-a fantastic wheelset...but around 1780grams.

I'm 185 with gear, and easy on bike parts.


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## stiffandlight (Sep 21, 2006)

Help!...new poster here.
Although I seemed to have registered a long time ago...and no longer stiff or light!.
Anyway did my first cross race yesterday...in France...have set up tubeless with a DuraAce 7800 front and new model Kysrium Elite rear. I installed a stans CX rim strip on both rims and a good amount of latex liquid.First pump up was with CO2 gun and then once beaded refilled with air.
I had done 3 training rides on them and had only had a small burp on the front...running about 35psi front and rear for a 200lb plus rider.I was confident to start my first ever CX race on that set up.
BUT...in my first practice lap I burped the rear a little bit...so came back and put 40psi rear and 36 front...next practice lap I had a big burp on the rear and had to put some CO2 in to get me back.
If I had had time I would have put tubes in...but started the race with 40 front and 45 rear...I did finish but only had 25 front and 36 rear.Fine that I finished but I had to ride carfully as well...especially on the off camber pinch climbs as they really seemed to roll the tyres.
DO I carry on?...or run tubes.Bit pointless running tubeless if I have to run such high pressures when I could probably run 36 front and rear with tubes safely!.
Don't think I have done anything wrong as I have been running road and mtb tubeless since the first tubeless tyres came out!.
Cheers for any advice.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

stiffandlight said:


> Cheers for any advice.


Read this: http://www.cxmagazine.com/going-tubeless-cyclocross-tires-racing-recommendations


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## stiffandlight (Sep 21, 2006)

Yes,thanks...I had read that article...and set it up with that in mind.For example running a Stans CX converter strip on the Kysrium to take up some gap etc when it isn't needed to make a tubeless conversion...still didn't have much luck.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

stiffandlight said:


> Yes,thanks...I had read that article...and set it up with that in mind.For example running a Stans CX converter strip on the Kysrium to take up some gap etc when it isn't needed to make a tubeless conversion...still didn't have much luck.


Yeah, you'll see in the comments that there are plenty of people doing it "right" and still having hit-and-miss results. (Which is why I run tubulars.)


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## stiffandlight (Sep 21, 2006)

Yes thats what I was thinking.
I am only playing this season...and didn't want to go tubs yet.


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## Scott D (Oct 10, 2010)

I am running the ravens and I had burping problems until I put 3 layers of Scotch 88 (not 33) electrical tape under the Stan's rim strip.


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## stiffandlight (Sep 21, 2006)

OK,might try building them up a bit more.


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## m_s (Nov 20, 2007)

Bulldogs are also good in the mud. But they are a wide tire and you have a wide rim so they might not have enough clearance at the chainstays to not clog up. At least that's what I have found on one bike. They set up tubeless well too.


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## Sheepo (Nov 8, 2011)

Michelin Mud 2s are awesome all weather tires! I would choose the raven if you are riding a lot of road but for anything else, Mud 2!

I used the raven 29x2.2 as a rear XC race tire and it failed on my third ride(thank god I wasnt racing). The sidewalls are paper thin. Dont know if the cross tire would be any better.


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## IJBcape (May 27, 2011)

I like these combos for tubeless -

Fulcrum Rims with the stan's cx kit work great, those are my beater wheels that I ride xc trails on. I like the Vittoria cross tires on those rims with the kit and two layers of tape. Can get low 30s PSI, no burps and I weigh 180.

Stan's 340 rims are also the bomb with BST, those are my nicer wheels. I use the 340s for road and cross and can inflate with a floor pump. Been using Stan's for a long while on MTB so it's a no brainer to get it working on the road bikes. 

For anyone considering tubeless, do it. Figure it out, it's so worth it. You will see once you forget all about tire issues.


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## dozerdog (Jan 13, 2010)

I have only burped the A340/Mud2 combo on hard remounts and only in the rear. I weigh 190lbs and was running 33 psi front and 36 pis rear. I probably could run 40 psi no issues but I also built tubies and have only trained at higher pressure on the 340's since. I did blow the rear tire off of the rim initially on mount up so that may also have something to do with the rear tire burping.

Barry Wicks is local here in Chicago now and I have seen him here and there at our local scene. Also being a larger guy he suggested the rim strip with the 340's to safely go down into the low 30's.


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