# My First Road Wheel Build ...



## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

Kinlin XR19W rims on Super Light hubs ... all sourced from Bike Hub Store :thumbsup: excellant service. If I need more wheel components I know where to look ... 

Rear hub 28H 208g lacing 3x2x
Front hub 24H 86g lacing 1x
Sapim Lasers (they are really skinny)

Having only build MTB wheels and only disc compatible, I am looking forward to this ...

rear wheel first ... 3x drive side, 2x NDS ... _just for a change_



all laced and ready for tightening


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Woot-woot. Let us know how it turns out.


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## gregnash (Jun 30, 2011)

Very nice and definitely let us know how they work out. Same exact build that I will plan on doing over the fall/winter.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

Great looking build. Be sure to post a tensioning and ride report!


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

Cheers ... will keep this thread updated ...

Question or maybe it does not matter ...

I am using brass (silver) nipples on the drive side (higher tension) and alloy (red) on the NDS. Hence the colour alternates around the rim ..._ Apologies for the vanity_ ... :blush2:

For the front, since the flange is symmetrical, is it still ok to just use brass on spokes coming from one side of the hub and alloy from the other side? Or should I just go 2 brass and 2 alloy etc, not that I want to as I would like to keep the same order ... Would it be a problem? Logically I do not think so ...


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

The front wouldnt be a problem, any nipple combo will work.

I had tension problems lacing that hub 3x/2x to a much stiffer XR300. It wouldnt get stiff enough, ended up buying new spokes to do 2x/2x. Hope you have better luck.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

How do you mean by 'wouldn't get stiff enough' ...

Were you were not able to get the tension on the spokes up to rim's recommendation?

btw ... It is 105kgf for the XR19W, just wondering how much higher I can go, mainly because I have a DT Swiss wheelset, and the average tension in the spokes, on the drive side is closer to 150kgf than the recommended 122kgf.

I am using Sapim Lasers 2.0 1.5 2.0mm ...


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

I built it to 125kgf (I build everything to 125 unless the manufacturer says not to). I think the NDS was about 50 or 60, dont quite remember. It felt flexy and the NDS was pretty easy to go slack. I think it was actually an A23, it was quite a while ago. I never rode it, it just felt so off while building I didnt want to keep going with it.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

Cheers for that ...

Another question ... I am using alloy nipples and I notice they 'mark/notch' easily when using the 4-sided Spoke Nipple Wrench to tighten. 

Do you guys use a 'home made' nipple driver to tighten alloy nipples from the 'slotted' end, ie from inside the rim? Just so that the nipple is not marked at all. Not vital but just for aesthetics ... if you know what I mean ... _Would be good to build a wheel for a friend with the nipples looking clean._


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

@chinaman- One of the downsides of alloy nips is that they do tend to get scuffed up a little bit easier than brass. Regarding your question, I am not sure that I completely understand. Are you using a nipple driver to tighten nips before the tensioning process, or while tensioning? 
Keep in mind that a brand new spoke wrench can scuff up nips as well. I prefer to use a spoke wrench that has been used quite a bit.


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## gregnash (Jun 30, 2011)

Hey Zen... quick hi-jack but do you have any pics of build with the Kinlin rims in gold and any color hubs? I was looking at picking up a set of the XR270 or C472W in gold with Red BHS hubs and black spokes to match my 09 Kona Jake.

Edit: Nevermind found your flickr and found what I was looking for...Might just stay with all black, dont know.:thumbsup:


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

I am using this nipple driver during tensioning ... thanks to Mike T for the custom 'pre-tension' nipple driver, but this is MY 'tensioning' driver ... :lol:



works so far on the NDS, which I am using alloy nipples ... just so that I do not scuff the nipples ... for the front where I am going 1X, I will try and give an update ...



Another question, for 1X, there is no way that the second set of spokes (on the same side of the hub) will go under the first set if the first set are all heads out, isn't it ... ie the spoke no 2 will not be able to go under spoke no 1, which is the first set of spoke that I run heads out into the hub ...



Just to re-confirm ...

For 2X, which was for my rear above, the second set of spoke that goes on the same side of the hub goes, over the spoke next to it and under ... before going into the rim??? ... sounds and looks logical ... if anyone can confirm would be good ... cheers


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> I am using this nipple driver during tensioning ... thanks to Mike T for the custom 'pre-tension' nipple driver, but this is MY 'tensioning' driver ... :lol:


B-b-b-but I don't see the reason for the slot in your version. If the slot is needed then you've seriously mis-calculated the spoke length.  Maybe I missed something and maybe you could explain the reason for the slot. 

A flat screwdriver works ok - and that's basically what you have unless a spoke pokes up into the slot - but it slides out of the nipple groove easily. My pointy modified phillips tends to stay in the slot better. 



> Another question, for 1X, there is no way that the second set of spokes (on the same side of the hub) will go under the first set if the first set are all heads out, isn't it ... ie the spoke no 2 will not be able to go under spoke no 1, which is the first set of spoke that I run heads out into the hub ...


I have front wheel with x1 done all "heads out". Yes the spokes touch and interfere but I don't think it's an issue. They're done with CX-Ray but the cross touches in the round part of the spoke. It would be nice if they crossed in their flat section though.



> For 2X, which was for my rear above, the second set of spoke that goes on the same side of the hub goes, over the spoke next to it and under ... before going into the rim??? ... sounds and looks logical ... if anyone can confirm would be good ... cheers


10-4 C'man. You got it. Carry on with the good work.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

Mike T. said:


> B-b-b-but I don't see the reason for the slot in your version. If the slot is needed then you've seriously mis-calculated the spoke length.  Maybe I missed something and maybe you could explain the reason for the slot.
> 
> A flat screwdriver works ok - and that's basically what you have unless a spoke pokes up into the slot - but it slides out of the nipple groove easily. My pointy modified phillips tends to stay in the slot better.
> 
> ...


Nope ... the spoke protrude just slightly above the nipple slot, and so hence I needed the slot to drive the alloy nipples during tensioning, just so that I do not mark the nipple using a spoke wrench? Is that a sign of a slightly longer spoke??? For brass nipples, I use the spoke wrench as you cannot really tell that it is marked as it is silver in colour ...

I just used hub flange data and rim ERD from the BHS site that I purchased the components from ...

Hub: SL R211 
PCD left 38.4 right 49.3 
Flange left 37.75 right 16.75

Rim: Kinlin XR19W ERD598

Drive Side 3X calculated spoke length 293.5 (used 293)
Non Drive Side 2X calculated spoke length 288.4 (used 289, as no even spoke length available)



These are what I have used ...



The bottom driver is your version, Mk 2 ... 
Closeup ...




For my front wheel ... Will change my heads in to out ... cheers for that ... :thumbsup: ... I did thought of using CX-Rays, but then the spoke will not be able to go through the hub spoke holes, so the Lasers were the next best option ...


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Nope ... the spoke protrude just slightly above the nipple slot, and so hence I needed the slot to drive the alloy nipples during tensioning, just so that I do not mark the nipple using a spoke wrench? Is that a sign of a slightly longer spoke?


Errr yep.



> For my front wheel ... Will change my heads in to out ... cheers for that ... :thumbsup: ... I did thought of using CX-Rays, but then the spoke will not be able to go through the hub spoke holes, so the Lasers were the next best option ...


CX-Rays, at 2.3mm wide, are designed to fit through all normal spoke holes. They're not like true aero spokes that needed to have the hub holes slotted.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

Mike T. said:


> ... CX-Rays, at 2.3mm wide, are designed to fit through all normal spoke holes. They're not like true aero spokes that needed to have the hub holes slotted.


Yep ... that is true ... the holes on my front and rear hubs were 2.6mm and 2.7mm ... so the CX rays would have been ok ... 

I think I went with the lasers because they were cheaper ... hopefully this does not equate to a lower quality ... 



Both the front and rear are almost done ... I think I getting quite picky and still think that there is still that bit more that I need to true ... anyway time is no constraint and I enjoy it :thumbsup: ...


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Y
> I think I went with the lasers because they were cheaper ... hopefully this does not equate to a lower quality ..


Actually CX-Rays are forged from Lasers.


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## Doug M (Jun 12, 2012)

TomH said:


> I had tension problems lacing that hub 3x/2x to a much stiffer XR300. It wouldnt get stiff enough, ended up buying new spokes to do 2x/2x. Hope you have better luck.


How did the tension work out for you? I'm looking a a similar 28 spoke build using the BHS SL hub 3xDS 2xNDS using a BHS C472w rim. I'd rather just plan for 2x if I'm going to run into issues.

TIA!


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

They're just fine 2x/2x. No reason to have more lacing on the DS. Im a very big fan of lacing these hubs 1x heads in on the DS, and 2x NDS for 28h. Returns better wheels, and I think it looks pretty good too  

Again Ill admit that I never actually rode the 2x/3x wheels, they just felt off enough while building that I abandoned it. Id very strongly recommend against more crosses on the DS.


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## Doug M (Jun 12, 2012)

Thanks TomH for the advice. I'll ditch the 3x 2x and may go with the 1xDS 2xNDS now.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

Cool stuff, you'll enjoy it! Just make sure they're heads _in_


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## gregnash (Jun 30, 2011)

Once you are done show us some shots of the finished wheels. Looks like this will be in my build future as I am now finding, as I get more confident and faster on my Jake, that my wheels flex a bit when I bank a turn. I found this out because I can actually hear them flexing and hitting the brake pads slightly and rubbing. I figured that a 32H/32H setup on my Jake at 187# would be more than strong enough but the wheels are tru with no hops so looks like the rims just weren't made to hold my weight. I am debating on using the BHS hubs and building an entirely new set of wheels and keeping these as backup/trainers or just relacing the stock Tiagra hubs to the BHS rims.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

all done ... rear wheel ...
3xDS/2xNDS went ok for me ...

front ... 
just 1x heads out ...



The weight came out at 615g front + 774g rear ... I tensioned the spokes to about 120kgf, _based on the lightest spoke tensioned, on the DS rear and either side for front_ ... recommended was 105kgf, but I think it should be fine ...





gregnash said:


> ... as I get more confident and faster on my Jake, that my wheels flex a bit when I bank a turn. I found this out because I can actually hear them flexing and hitting the brake pads slightly and rubbing ...


That is a worry constantly at the back of mind and cannot wait to find out if that happens to these wheels as well as they are so light ...


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## gregnash (Jun 30, 2011)

Very cool, I am looking forward to the report on the first rides...

BTW, what are the red and white decals on the rims?


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

XR19W is the rim name ... Kinlin did not give any decals ... their rims are always plain ... good if you like a plain 'no decal' look ...


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

I was wondering about the decals.. so you installed them? I like it, adds color. Kinlins are awesome to build with, and incredibly stiff and durable, they're just so plain.


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## gregnash (Jun 30, 2011)

Ah ok, now I see it... Never had seen them with decals so was curious.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

Have so far done a few short round trips and a 52km (32miles) and a 93km or 58miles.

Gone through pot holes, shorts bursts of sprints on flats, standing and pedalling up inclines and at speeds during descents ... rims are still true ... fingers crossed ... 

I have not tried out other road rims and am not sure if I would be able to tell the difference, honestly.

Leaning during cornering? not able to discern if there is any flex in the rims in terms of rubbing on the pads.

The hubs are smooth, too smooth actually.  My Hope Pro 2s had a bit of drag initially and then as with increase usage, they become smoother ... unsure if this is due to the Enduro bearings ... Engagement (6 pawls) is as good, if not marginally better than my Hope Pro IIs (24 points 4 pawls). Unfortunately did not do a count of the points when I took out the freehub for a look at the bearings. (Maybe Brandon from BHS can chime in here ...)

One thing though, keep getting grit, twice, during just a 1mile round trip, (or whatever it is) stuck in the pads and scarring the braking track. Unsure if the material came from the road or because the rim is new, as it looks like it is aluminium to me. Had to lightly sand the brake track down a bit on each occasion. Do rims with brake tracks need to be 'bedded-in' so to speak ... just to remove the initial 'layer' on the brake track?


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

They're 48pt hubs, twice what hope has. The hubs dont have much in the way of sealing, so not much drag. Theyre sealed enough to be fine though, I ran mine in grimy rainy portland for a season without issues. They're so incredibly easy to service too that its not a big deal to clean out and relube the freehub. All though the bearings say enduro, I dont think they're the same bearings you'd get if you ordered them from enduro in the US. They're sort of low grade, but good enough.

Kinlins have been known to kinda gunk up the brake track with certain pads when new. Give the rim a good scrub with the scrubby side of a dish sponge, and wipe the pads down well too. Some people get metallic dust on their frames with new kinlins, all though I havent seen this on my bikes. It should go away, if not try koolstop salmons.


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## gregnash (Jun 30, 2011)

Thanks for the info dude... Not sure if I am going to build these or not now as I am looking at building up another mtb for next year (this time full suspension). If I do then I will convert my HT (On-One Inbred 29er) to the commuter and get ride of the Jake. Dont want to build a set of 130mm wheels and then have to use spacers on the 135mm mtb frame. Just kinda waiting to see how things pan out right now.


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## ktmrockhopper (Sep 28, 2007)

Very nice wheel build. I have enjoyed watching the progress. Have you been satisfied with the performance of the BHS hubs?

I am preparing to build the following wheelset but I am not sure of the hub performance and lateral stiffness of my proposed build. I am looking to build up a light all-round wheelset. I weigh 220lbs, like to ride fast but I am not abusive on wheels. All comments and recommendations are welcome.

PROPOSED FRONT WHEEL BUILD -
Kinlin XR300 30mm height Rim
24 spoke Sapim CX Ray - Radial Lacing
BHS 71g Superlight Wide Front Hub

PROPOSED REAR WHEEL BUILD-
Kinlin XR300 30mm height Rim
28 spoke Sapim CX Ray - 2X Lacing Drive Side & 2X Lacing Non-drive Side
BHS 211g Superlight Rear Hub

Any recommendations on nipples and front/rear spoke tension settings would also be appreciated.


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## gregnash (Jun 30, 2011)

If this is your first build the general consensus is to stay away from bladed spokes due to their nature to twist. If you go with a common double butted (Sapim Race, DT Swiss Comp, etc) you will only be adding a slight amount of weight and be getting a much better initial build. Everything I have read about the Kinlin is that they are spectacular rims and built properly, can be just as good as any high dollar purchased wheel. Spoke tension should normally be pretty high, but unless you have a good measuring tool you will just go with what seems to be good and tight.

Lateral flex is something I think he would have felt initially when riding the wheels. I am 185 out of the shower and with riding clothes and bag maybe 5-8lbs heavier. With that said, I am still riding the stock wheels on my Jake (Alex rims with Tiagra/Formula hubs) that are 32/32 and going around corners at speed I can feel and hear the flex, I actually hear the rim slightly rubbing on the brake pads. I am not sure if this is do to the rims being incorrectly tensioned (they are tru) or that the rims are to light for my weight. 

I ride hard, take corners like I would on a mtn bike, and ride rather rough roads, so more than likely the rims are just past their prime. For me, if I do end up building a set, I will be going with the XR270s or the C472s with the same hubs and Sapim Race spokes. Really I am looking for an all arounder build that will survive gravel road grinds and road riding/commuting.


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## sanrensho (Jan 2, 2003)

gregnash said:


> I am not sure if this is do to the rims being incorrectly tensioned (they are tru) or that the rims are to light for my weight.


Factory wheels (I'm not talking about boutique, high-end wheels) are almost universally undertensioned unless a shop wrench has taken the time to retension them (never happens). It's not the rims.


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## CAADEL (Jul 23, 2011)

sanrensho said:


> Factory wheels are almost universally undertensioned ...


Why is that?


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## sanrensho (Jan 2, 2003)

CAADEL said:


> Why is that?


By factory wheels I mean low-end machine-built wheels. I've never worked with such a machine, but my universal experience with stock, low-end factory wheels is that they are undertensioned. Same for MTBs.

I have no experience with branded low-end wheels like Shimano and Mavic Aksium. They might be machine-built, I have no idea.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

TomH said:


> They're 48pt hubs, twice what hope has ... They're so incredibly easy to service too that its not a big deal to clean out and relube the freehub. All though the bearings say enduro, I dont think they're the same bearings you'd get if you ordered them from enduro in the US ...


The end caps are 'threaded-on' instead of 'pressed-on', having removed one side, is the other end also threaded into the hub body itself?



ktmrockhopper said:


> ... Have you been satisfied with the performance of the BHS hubs?
> 
> I am preparing to build the following wheelset ...
> 
> ...


I am 5'10" and about 165lbs, 'so far not been' heavier than 175lbs ... never say never ... 

I went with half alloy and half brass nipples. 12 alloy weighs 4g and 12 brass weighs 12g. Alloy costs a lot more and they get marked the moment you use a spoke key on them. I only used 'my' nipple driver to tension them from within the rim.



You could go with either. I think Mike T uses alloy on most if not all his rims and with no problems. Roger M prefers to use brass. (this was a few yrs ago now)

The max recommended tension for my XR19W was 105kgf. Rear drive side I went up to 120-125kgf for the least tensioned spoke. Maybe could have gone a bit higher. Just do not like the flex remaining in the NDS. And the same with the front too.

Could not find anything on the XR300 ... 130kgf was all I could find from weight weenies forum ...


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## aserhal (Jul 25, 2011)

I'm doing a similar first build. Did you use nipple washers?


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

gregnash said:


> Hey Zen... quick hi-jack but do you have any pics of build with the Kinlin rims in gold and any color hubs? I was looking at picking up a set of the XR270 or C472W in gold with Red BHS hubs and black spokes to match my 09 Kona Jake.
> 
> Edit: Nevermind found your flickr and found what I was looking for...Might just stay with all black, dont know.:thumbsup:


Sorry about the slow reply on this. Unfortunately, I do not have any pictures of those rims in gold. The colored Kinlins seem to be pretty difficult to get.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

aserhal said:


> I'm doing a similar first build. Did you use nipple washers?


I did not use nipple washers. I presume these washers are used where rims do not have any eyelets?

The XR19W rims have single eyelets and so never occured to me to use them. I went with the XR19W only because they were light and have eyelets.

The XR200 which are lighter rims do not have any eyelets. If I had decided to go with these it would have been weight driven and so unsure if I would have used washers.


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## middieman147 (Jun 27, 2011)

cool!


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> The XR200 which are lighter rims do not have any eyelets. If I had decided to go with these it would have been weight driven and so unsure if I would have used washers.


I have never had to use washers on the XR200 and we haven't had any sort of issues with them.


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## Doug M (Jun 12, 2012)

TomH said:


> Cool stuff, you'll enjoy it! Just make sure they're heads _in_


Tom, newbie question...Heads in on both sides?

Thanks.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

The NDS would be laced 2x, which alternates heads in and out. Just conventional 2x lacing. Only the DS gets laced heads in.


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## Doug M (Jun 12, 2012)

Thanks again Tom, much appreciated.


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## arevuar (Jul 16, 2012)

:thumbsup:.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Chinaman, how's the wheels holding up? Give us an update!!


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

Had the in-laws around for the last 2 weeks and could only go out again today.

Did a 55 miles sportive with 3500" of climbs around Hampshire. Route was through some country roads with pot-holes and stones. Climbing through forests and descents under canopy and was a bit worried when I went through a few potholes in the shaded areas. Could feel the full force of the wheel entering the pot-hole and coming back out again. arrrgh ... but ... all is still good. :thumbsup:

Am using 25mm tyres and that helps I think.

To date I have done 200 miles on these rims.

I am now fully confident in the wheelset. My previous wheels were built using Hope hubs and DT Swiss rims and so even on the first run I was confident in the integrity and durability of the components. Naturally with these 'SL' hubs and 'Kinlin' rims that I have only heard of when I came onto this forum, I was a bit cautious. And to top it off, they are light, well at least in my books. They actually weigh 399g and 414g. 24H and 28H respectively. Initially I was a bit cautious with every form of unevenness in roads around here, but not now.  Hope they stay that way.

If I had, for arguments' sake, build a wheelset using Chris King hubs and DT Swiss rims, other than the engagement, would I be able to tell the difference? Don't think I will.


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## gforcepdx (Jul 23, 2012)

I'm new here and looking for information about wheels. I'm researching my first road bike and looking at the different available wheel choices and with so many differing types it feels confusing. If that's more than you want to get into, could you point me to a reference guide? The rims you chose look pretty straight forward to me, but then you have manufacturers making aluminum rims with elongated, almost egg like proportions. Is that about strength? Or aerodynamics? Then you have these really deep carbon fiber rims. Again, is that about strength or aerodynamics or both? These are the sorts of questions I'm trying to figure out. Honestly though in all likelihood I'll probably build a set like yours. But part of the process is learning why other people make the choices they do. Thanks... j


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## shah321 (Jul 22, 2012)

awesome....


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

The deep profile rims are more aerodynamic, but it reaches a certain point where cross-winds may be more perceptible.

I am sure you notice racers with a dish on the rear but only a deep profile rim on the front as the front is more affected by cross-winds. That is about as much I can say about the subject.

I chose the XR19W because they are light, at about 400-410g each and they have eyelets, which helps to reinforce the rim. It is a 21mm profile rim. It also depends on your weight. I am about 165lbs and losing weight as I ride more and more. I have never been above 175lbs. (_fingers-crossed_)


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

gforcepdx said:


> I'm new here and looking for information about wheels. I'm researching my first road bike and looking at the different available wheel choices and with so many differing types it feels confusing. If that's more than you want to get into, could you point me to a reference guide? The rims you chose look pretty straight forward to me, but then you have manufacturers making aluminum rims with elongated, almost egg like proportions. Is that about strength? Or aerodynamics? Then you have these really deep carbon fiber rims. Again, is that about strength or aerodynamics or both? These are the sorts of questions I'm trying to figure out. Honestly though in all likelihood I'll probably build a set like yours. But part of the process is learning why other people make the choices they do. Thanks... j


Take a look at the wheel info page on BWW's site, it will give you some general wheel info -

Road - Road Wheel Buying Guide - Bicycle Wheel Warehouse

Read up on the site of Peter White Cycles.

Read my info on home wheelbuilding - there is some general info there.
Sheldon Brown's site will have lots of info too.

Deep rims (please don't call them "deep dish" as that's a kind of pizza) are more aerodynamic but the faster you go, the more benefit they are. At the speeds of most of us, any minor benefit is not noticeable. Deeper rims (more affected by crosswinds) are generally stronger than shallower ones and usually can tolerate less spokes.

Be careful of well-marketed factory pre-built wheelsets as the cost of hype, advertizing and visual effects is passed on to you. Usually they contain proprietary spokes that, if spares are needed, tend to be expensive and hard to find and some wheelsets have to be returned to the factory (eek!  ) for service & repair.


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## gforcepdx (Jul 23, 2012)

That's what I've been led to believe. My current ride is a 25lb Trek 850 mountain bike with 1.25x26 slicks. I can do 16 mph on flat ground and have been told an easy 18 to 20 mph is within my reach on the right road bike. I wonder at what speed all of that aero design begins proving its worth. I've been seeing a lot of fixies around town sporting an aero aluminum rim that looks pretty cool but I'm guessing yours weigh's a bit less. Currently I weigh 190with a target of 185, down from 205 last winter. Is rider weight that critical with rim choice? I'm really pretty ignorant about a lot of these details. Thanks by the way.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

gforcepdx said:


> ... I wonder at what speed all of that aero design begins proving its worth. I've been seeing a lot of fixies around town sporting an aero aluminum rim that looks pretty cool but I'm guessing yours weigh's a bit less. Currently I weigh 190with a target of 185, down from 205 last winter. Is rider weight that critical with rim choice? ...


£1,000 deep-section carbon wheel grouptest: The test lab | Product News | Cycling Weekly

fixies with 'aero' aluminium rims? most probably for aesthetics ...

rider weight do determine the type of rim to use and how many spokes. eg:
Kinlin XR-200 Clincher Rim - 22mm - 383 grams
under description ... riders above 190lbs should use XR19W ...


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

Just had to re-true my rear wheels. And they were mainly the NDS that needed adjustment. Wondering if I had used slightly thicker spokes on the NDS, would that have helped. Previous wheels were built using 1.8 DTSwiss spokes. My road wheel here I have gone with 1.5 SapimLasers.

Otherwise I am very happy with the wheel. :thumbsup:


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

ktmrockhopper said:


> Very nice wheel build. I have enjoyed watching the progress. Have you been satisfied with the performance of the BHS hubs?
> 
> I am preparing to build the following wheelset but I am not sure of the hub performance and lateral stiffness of my proposed build. I am looking to build up a light all-round wheelset. I weigh 220lbs, like to ride fast but I am not abusive on wheels. All comments and recommendations are welcome.
> 
> ...


I would go 3x DS on the back. With regards to tension, you should be shooting for 120 kgf on the drive side. With the non drive, que sera, sera. The front should be around 100 kgf or slightly higher. 

-Roland


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## Enoch562 (May 13, 2010)

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Just had to re-true my rear wheels. And they were mainly the NDS that needed adjustment. Wondering if I had used slightly thicker spokes on the NDS, would that have helped. Previous wheels were built using 1.8 DTSwiss spokes. My road wheel here I have gone with 1.5 SapimLasers.
> 
> Otherwise I am very happy with the wheel. :thumbsup:


I built the exact same set up you did except I used race on the *Drive Side* . Have not had any issue and the build was plenty stiff. Came in at 1385 grams with alloy nipples.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

deleted


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

Enoch562 said:


> I built the exact same set up you did except I used race on the *Drive Side* . Have not had any issue and the build was plenty stiff. Came in at 1385 grams with alloy nipples.


The wheel is stiff, just that prior to the 're-true', I was on some cobblestones and maybe that had done something to the wheels. Or could just be the builder ... :wink:

Mine came in at 1423g. Sapim Lasers all round. Half alloy and half brass nipples incl rim tape. No skewers.


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## gregnash (Jun 30, 2011)

So after many moons and the new riding season starting up... What are your thoughts now on the wheels you built? Anything you would change?


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## Enoch562 (May 13, 2010)

Mine are still going strong. Wouldn't change a thing.


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## gregnash (Jun 30, 2011)

Enoch562 said:


> Mine are still going strong. Wouldn't change a thing.


Enoch - What is your weight, riding style, terrain, etc.? Looking to finally upgrade the wheels this year and going to put into some Velocity Fusion Gold rims with the BHS hubs and looking at Race all around (I am 185 and live in a hilly area with lots of climbing).


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

gregnash said:


> So after many moons and the new riding season starting up... What are your thoughts now on the wheels you built? Anything you would change?


I am actually very happy with them. No reason to change anything unless weight is an issue? 1423g for the wheelset at that price? No contest! I do not race and only need a light wheelset which is strong at the same time.

:thumbsup:


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## Enoch562 (May 13, 2010)

gregnash said:


> Enoch - What is your weight, riding style, terrain, etc.? Looking to finally upgrade the wheels this year and going to put into some Velocity Fusion Gold rims with the BHS hubs and looking at Race all around (I am 185 and live in a hilly area with lots of climbing).



Sorry for the delayed response. I just saw this. 

I'm 165. I like to stand when I climb, and we have alot of short steep hills that we ride regularly. If it were me, I would go with the Kinlin 270 rim over the Fusion. If you can afford it, the Pacenti SL23 is even better option @ the Same weight. I'm loving the wide rims. I ran some 25 C Conti 4000s on them the other day and was pretty impressed. I was running 80lbs. and think I could have gone down to 75.


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## engineer1 (Apr 30, 2013)

I'm planning on doing a very similar build (if not the same). The ERD on BHS is listed as 595 but I noticed that you typed 598... Is it supposed to be 598? Thanks!


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

engineer1 said:


> I'm planning on doing a very similar build (if not the same). The ERD on BHS is listed as 595 but I noticed that you typed 598... Is it supposed to be 598? Thanks!


I just noticed the differences ... but from these 2 sites ... they are listed as 598.

Kinlin XR 19w Rim

KinLin XR-19W Clincher Rim : Fairwheel Bikes, Cycling Boutique

Most of the seasoned builders here would insist that you measure the ERD yourself. I cannot quite recall what I did back then but I may have just checked a few sites out there and just went with the 'more' common measurement, _which, you should not do as you should measure them yourself_ ...


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## engineer1 (Apr 30, 2013)

Hmmm I see.

Maybe I will just take an average 

Thanks


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

I went with 1X on the front. 2X rear NDS and 3X DS.
Spoke calculation from wheelpro.
Front: the length came out at 286.9 round up to 287.
Rear: NDS 288.4 (289 used) and DS 293.5 (293 used)
BHS only had odd lengths and so the closest choice.

I have to admit that the lengths that I used were a bit long. Better long than short I would say. The 'correct' length should have the spoke end, right up to the bottom of the nipple slot.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

gforcepdx said:


> My current ride is a 25lb Trek 850 mountain bike with 1.25x26 slicks. I can do 16 mph on flat ground and have been told an easy 18 to 20 mph is within my reach on the right road bike.


I went from a 30lb MTB with slicks to a nice Ti road bike with Dura Ace, and my speed increase was... nil... unless I was climbing, in which case the difference was about what you'd expect from a 13 lb weight reduction. 



> I wonder at what speed all of that aero design begins proving its worth.


It's small differences at every speed. The biggest gains are from making your body aero.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

rruff said:


> I went from a 30lb MTB with slicks to a nice Ti road bike with Dura Ace, and my speed increase was... nil... unless I was climbing, in which case the difference was about what you'd expect from a 13 lb weight reduction.


I have a 30-mile benchmark road out & back slightly rolly course that I've time-trialed many times over many years as a judge of my fitness. I log the data. My fastest time ever was on my 20lb titanium fully rigid mountain bike with knobby tires at 40psi. That was done eleven years ago. I can't come within minutes of that now on my Ti roadbike with 50mm deep rims and 25mm tires.

I once rode that same route accompanied by the 3rd best junior mountain bike racer in Canada. I was a hard-training 50 yr old at the time. He was on his Moots full-suspension MTB and I was on my road bike. He dropped me 3x.

All very anecdotal but the bike (or wheels, or tires or anything else) makes much less difference than we like to hear. Pressing harder on the pedals makes the biggest difference.


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## bobonker (Feb 12, 2011)

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> I just noticed the differences ... but from these 2 sites ... they are listed as 598.
> 
> Kinlin XR 19w Rim
> 
> ...


I just built up a set of XR19Ws with an assumed ERD of 598. After measuring both rims, I found that they were much closer to 595. 

I had intentionally bought spokes that were 2mm "too short" because I was planning on using 14mm hex-head Pillar nipples (which require shorter spokes). Instead, I used 12mm Sapim nipples and ended up being ok with spoke lengths.

Bob


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

I think those must have been *good* knobbies. The cheap knobby tires I have on the MTB feel like I'm plowing through sand... even on pavement. 

I did have a good aero body position on the MTB back in the day, with a long low stem and bar-ends that I used like aerobars. And fat tires have low rolling resistance, all else being equal. 

It's all little bits anyway.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

rruff said:


> I think those must have been *good* knobbies. The cheap knobby tires I have on the MTB feel like I'm plowing through sand... even on pavement.
> I did have a good aero body position on the MTB back in the day, with a long low stem and bar-ends that I used like aerobars. And fat tires have low rolling resistance, all else being equal. It's all little bits anyway.


My MTB is a "fast" mtb - 20lbs, low & long, rigid, bar-ends, light 2.1 tires, built for fast dirt road and singletrack cruising and fast non-too-technical racing. So as mtb's go, it would be as quick as most any mtb's.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

Mike T. said:


> I have a 30-mile benchmark road out & back slightly rolly course that I've time-trialed many times over many years as a judge of my fitness. I log the data. My fastest time ever was on my 20lb titanium fully rigid mountain bike with knobby tires at 40psi. That was done eleven years ago. I can't come within minutes of that now on my Ti roadbike with 50mm deep rims and 25mm tires. ...


:lol::lol::lol: maybe because it was 11 years ago and you were much fitter? not that you are not now ... but you know ...


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> :lol::lol::lol: maybe because it was 11 years ago and you were much fitter? not that you are not now ... but you know ...


Precisely! I'm not stoopid enough to claim that my mtb is "faster" than my road bike but I'm saying that equipment is not what holds us back much or makes us faster. That's the 1% stuff. At that time I was riding the mountain bike 100% of the time and that's why I was doing 30-mile road time-trial tests on it. I was racing mtb enduros then. I train just as hard now but I've slowed down lots as I'm now a true senior citizen.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

Hey hey hey ... Are the ole chaps still here?

Quick update. Wheels still good and running. Had to true the rear wheel a bit just last month but nothing too drastic.

There was a slight 1mm wobble which is now all evened out.

Might consider changing the spokes on the drive side to something a bit heavier. Easy fix but we will see.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n said:


> Hey hey hey ... Are the ole chaps still here?


Naww we all took off and left it to the whippersnappers.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

hahaha i see u still looking good brotha! :thumbsup:


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