# Good headlight for road training?



## soulfly_nyc (Feb 16, 2007)

Hi,

I am going to start training at night on somewhat lit streets (central park). What is a good headlight that has the following features:

1. can last for a 2hour session and is rechargeable (lithium ion preferred)
2. quick on/off mount so i can remove effortlessly for a race or day ride
3. prefer a one piece design with removable battery pack as opposed to having wires and such all over the place

Thanks a lot!


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

Ironically, I find that a brighter light is more important on "somewhat lit" streets than totally dark roads. On totally dark roads, your eyes adjust to the darkness and even a 100 lumen light does quite well. However, riding in the city with streetlights, that same 100 lumen light will hardly do a thing -- other than make you more visible to drivers.

As far as suggestions go, I have two lights that are very easy to install and remove, inexpensive and put out 200-300 lumens, which should be fine for your purposes. The first is a Fenix LD20, which runs over 2 hours on rechargeable AA batteries at the highest setting (about 200 lumens). It only costs about $60, but a charger and Two-Fish mount add a few bucks extra. The Fenix is very small and lightweight with no battery pack or cords to fool with. The second is a Light & Motion Stella 300, which is more expensive ($180-300 depend on where you buy) but puts out more light (300 lumens) and lasts longer on a charge (up to 5 hours or more). The Stella is a great light with one stupid design flaw, the battery cord is ridiculously long (4'), but L&M can instally a shorter cord for $50 extra bucks. The light itself is very small and bright, and the battery compact except for the cord.


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## Trevor Ash (May 19, 2005)

I'm a huge fan of DiNotte Lighting. In particular the 200L-LI series (200 lumen):

DiNotte Lighting USA Shopping Cart

You didn't mention price as a concern. They use an O-ring mount, remove SUPER quick, and are extremely easy to angle how you need. I've fussed with clamp/bolt on connections before and hate them. When you remove these lights, nothing stays on your bike.

The only requirement of yours it doesn't meet is the "cables all over the bike" requirement. With this light, you connect the light to a replaceable/rechargeable battery pack. Mount the light to your bars, strap the battery to your top or down tube, and go to town. When done, do the opposite.


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

I have the DiNotte tail-light and they make great products. I agree that's another good choice.


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## dustyrider (Aug 10, 2007)

I like the battery inside the light, anything that can be used for more then one thing is very appealing. In my mind I think of it as a flashlight that I can put on my bike and turn into a head light.

So I think my next headlight will be one or a set of these.


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## Black Bart (Dec 6, 2005)

NiteRider MiNewt 600 or 350 cordless.


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## azhu (Aug 17, 2011)

I personally would rather get a decent LED flashlight and a handle bar mount for it. That way you have 2 uses for the light. =]


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## Trevor Ash (May 19, 2005)

The most important aspect of a light, besides the obvious brightness, battery life, etc, is how it attaches to the bike and how easy it is to adjust while riding. I just want to point this out not because of what anyone above me said, but because I think it's too often taken for granted just how bad some are!


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## Black Bart (Dec 6, 2005)

azhu said:


> I personally would rather get a decent LED flashlight and a handle bar mount for it. That way you have 2 uses for the light. =]


The MiNewt cordless series work just fine as a handheld flashlight. In addition:


Well thought out and integrated bar and/or helmet mounting system included, no jerry rigging needed
Mount allows left/right adjustment as well as up/down

High/Med/Low/"Walk" light levels to suit needed light output and run time
Flash/strobe mode- great attention getter when riding in city traffic
Made in USA, great customer support if needed


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## mrbubbles (Jul 1, 2007)

Black Bart said:


> The MiNewt cordless series work just fine as a handheld flashlight. In addition:
> 
> 
> Well thought out and integrated bar and/or helmet mounting system included, no jerry rigging needed
> ...


MiNewt is weak for the price. Bike light is just a glorified flashlight.

$40 flashlight setup with rechargeable battery, spare battery, charger and mount is 3 times brighter.


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## Black Bart (Dec 6, 2005)

mrbubbles said:


> MiNewt is weak for the price. Bike light is just a glorified flashlight.
> 
> $40 flashlight setup with rechargeable battery, spare battery, charger and mount is 3 times brighter.


Do you have a link to this $40 600 lumen package?

Edit: you said 3x brighter, $40 1800 lumen package.


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## mrbubbles (Jul 1, 2007)

MiNewt is 350lm. 
Niterider – Technical Lighting Systems » MiNewt.350 Cordless – NEW

For 1000 lumen lights, see here. (Go the last few pages, not the first one, first page is dated, yes, lighting technology changes very fast)
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/what-deal-extreme-torches-do-you-like-632987.html


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## Black Bart (Dec 6, 2005)

mrbubbles said:


> MiNewt is 350lm.
> Niterider  Technical Lighting Systems » MiNewt.350 Cordless  NEW
> 
> For 1000 lumen lights, see here. (Go the last few pages, not the first one, first page is dated, yes, lighting technology changes very fast)
> http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/what-deal-extreme-torches-do-you-like-632987.html


350 or 600, see the link in my first post. (yes, lighting technology changes very fast, although both versions were announced in the same press release over 2 months ago.)


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## mrbubbles (Jul 1, 2007)

Black Bart said:


> 350 or 600, see the link in my first post. (yes, lighting technology changes very fast, although both versions were announced in the same press release over 2 months ago.)


I was going off memory from what they had before, now that they finally updated (although they're still using old technology), the 600 is pretty pricey at $150 for what you get, for example, the Cree MC-E led used in the 600 came out in flashlight more than a year ago that cost $20, so yeah, the led works, but it's already outdated in terms of efficiency and light output. 


You can get 800-900 lumens in a flashlight for $30 or less from DX. MTBR's lighting subforum covers almost all of it, from cheap $80 fully boxed setup to high zoot Lupine setup.


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## Black Bart (Dec 6, 2005)

mrbubbles said:


> I was going off memory from what they had before, now that they finally updated (although they're still using old technology), the 600 is pretty pricey at $150 for what you get, for example, the Cree MC-E led used in the 600 came out in flashlight more than a year ago that cost $20, so yeah, the led works, but it's already outdated in terms of efficiency and light output.
> 
> 
> You can get 800-900 lumens in a flashlight for $30 or less from DX. MTBR's lighting subforum covers almost all of it, from cheap $80 fully boxed setup to high zoot Lupine setup.


Where did you learn that the MiNewt 600 used the MC-E? When I Googled for info on it, the first return that referenced the two together was your post in this thread.

The Cree MC-E (which btw, NR used years ago on it's first Pro series) now costs about $20 for just the emitter and is rated at 430 lumen. When you put that into a cheap or non existent reflector and shine it through a poor quality lens, you don't wind up with 600 lumen or a great beam pattern. Those cheap lights ($40+ on DX) are notorious for grossly overstating their light output, you'll need to buy one that claims 1000+ lumen to match the NR 600. Do they come with Li-Ion batteries? Or a charger? What's the run time? Does it have a battery level indicator? Can you charge it off of the ubiquitous mini-usb cable, like off your computer at work?

BTW, the lights discussed in the MTBR thread you linked to are described by the posters as being a "crap shoot" in terms of quality, with poor light color and pattern, battery life, lenses and reflectors. The light diminishes in brightness as the battery runs down, something a quality light does not do. They also talk a lot about rigging up bar mounts from PVC pipes, scraps of rubber and 2-Fish mounts. Not sure that's what the OP is looking for.


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## mrbubbles (Jul 1, 2007)

Black Bart said:


> Where did you learn that the MiNewt 600 used the MC-E? When I Googled for info on it, the first return that referenced the two together was your post in this thread.
> 
> The Cree MC-E (which btw, NR used years ago on it's first Pro series) now costs about $20 for just the emitter and is rated at 430 lumen. When you put that into a cheap or non existent reflector and shine it through a poor quality lens, you don't wind up with 600 lumen or a great beam pattern.


Minewt 600 doesn't use lens, it uses a reflector. I was basing the led model from the comments from this thread.

http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/anyone-using-niterider-minewt-600-cordless-726434.html

Now that there's an actual thread of review on the lights, they're not using the MC-E anymore, so it's likely XM-L.

http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...wt-600-vs-cygolite-expilion-400-a-730977.html




Black Bart said:


> Those cheap lights ($40+ on DX) are notorious for grossly overstating their light output, you'll need to buy one that claims 1000+ lumen to match the NR 600. Do they come with Li-Ion batteries? Or a charger? What's the run time? Does it have a battery level indicator? Can you charge it off of the ubiquitous mini-usb cable, like off your computer at work?


Their claims are exaggerated by a 100-200 lumens or so, here's a website that compares beamshots from flashlights, bikelights, headlamps, specialty lights, etc.

?????????: ??? ? ???????. ????? ? ?????? ???????. ?????? ????????????, ??????????????, ???????????, ???????? ???????? ? ??????????.

You'll find that lights like Cygolite Tridenx has similar output to the earlier bins of P7 leds (which had a lumen rating of 700).

Charging via USB is not a requirement for me, the amperage is too low and the charging time is too long, an external charger with an 1A per hour rating is better.

Battery indicator is also not a requirement as you should always carry a spare battery or light just in case. 

Li-Ion battery you buy them, and since they're replaceable, you replace them when they crap out in a year or two, unlike enclosed system where you actually have to take it apart to replace the battery. 



Black Bart said:


> BTW, the lights discussed in the MTBR thread you linked to are described by the posters as being a "crap shoot" in terms of quality, with poor light color and pattern, battery life, lenses and reflectors. 1. The light diminishes in brightness as the battery runs down, something a quality light does not do. 2. They also talk a lot about rigging up bar mounts from PVC pipes, scraps of rubber and 2-Fish mounts. Not sure that's what the OP is looking for.


1. That depends on the driver, if they're regulated, it doesn't happen, if they're direct drive, that happens. There's pros and cons for both of these, 
2. That's just stupid, flashlight bar mounts are $3-$7, they probably have too much time on their hands.

You seem to be poo-pooing the idea of using flashlights on bikes, but these cheap high powered flashlight have enabled many to ride at night with better lights who wouldn't have spent $300-$400 on lights in the first place. I still remember the early days where people lambasted the idea of buying a replacement battery for their HID lights from Niterider because it cost around $150-$200. With inexpensive lights coming out of China, the big guys had to drop their price a bit down to compete, $150 for a 600 lumen light from brand name manufacturers was unthinkable 3 years ago, now you can get 600 lumens for $25 in a flashlight.

Then again, I'm not partial to battery powered setups for front light, I use dynamos so I don't ever have to worry about the hassle of battery level, recharging the light, or having to remove the light because the bike is parked outside.


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## Black Bart (Dec 6, 2005)

mrbubbles said:


> Minewt 600 doesn't use lens, it uses a reflector. I was basing the led model from the comments from this thread.
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/anyone-using-niterider-minewt-600-cordless-726434.html
> 
> ...


You seem to have issues understanding what you're reading. I'm beginning to understand why your "rep" is so low.

I didn't say the MiNewt uses a lens.

You based your claim about which emitter it uses on this post:

_"Fairly certain it's a Cree MCE"_

and then go on to say it likely uses the XM-L and reference a thread where nobody makes such a claim.

You claim NR overstates the claimed output of the 600 by "100-200" and reference a Russian website that does not show test data on a single NR product.

The NR light comes with a dedicated Smart Charger, the ability to charge from any USB source is a bonus.

If your batteries are crapping out after 1-2 years, they are crap. I have a Moab that's 5 years old that still goes 7+ hours on high running the original battery. I have a set of NR halogens from '98 (Digital NiteOwl and Trailrat) that still function fine as a backup or loaner set, the original NiteOwl battery lasted 5+ years (older technology). My TriNewt still runs the same today as it did 3 years ago. Ditto my 4 year old MiNewt X2.

What's the run time of these flashlights on a single battery on the highest setting? Looks like it's about 30minutes vs. 1:30 for the 600.

I'm not "poo-pooing" the idea of getting by with these cheaper lights, although I'd say the MagicShine is a better option for bike use, but your claim that you can get a light 3x brighter for $20. You can't, a lower lumen light-$45, batteries to match run time, charger, mount ~$25 = ~$70. If you're looking for a good light to use on a road bike while turning training laps around NYC, a quality light like the NR is a much better option if you can swing the extra few $. (You can pickup the 600 for about $127, the 350 for $94) It's also a better and much cheaper option then rigging up his road bike with a dyno hub like a European commuter.


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## mrbubbles (Jul 1, 2007)

Black Bart said:


> You seem to have issues understanding what you're reading. I'm beginning to understand why your "rep" is so low.


Argumentum ad populum, seriously?



Black Bart said:


> I didn't say the MiNewt uses a lens.
> 
> You based your claim about which emitter it uses on this post:


"shine it through a poor quality lens, you don't wind up with 600 lumen or a great beam pattern." I thought you were referring to the Niterider or something, anyways, some reading comprehension mishaps there, no big deal.



Black Bart said:


> _"Fairly certain it's a Cree MCE"_
> 
> and then go on to say it likely uses the XM-L and reference a thread where nobody makes such a claim.


I made a mistake by assuming the newer models where still using Cree MCEs, I'm not a \Niterider fanatic and I don't follow their development that closely. As for the Cree XM-L reference, if you knew what Cree XM-L look like, it is fairly certain that the Niterider Minewt 600 uses the XM-L led. (Yes, you need to log into MTBR to actually see photos, they're very educational)

Niterider's led usage is all over the place as well, here's a deconstructed Minewt 250 that uses a Seoul P4 (an old led from 2008).

http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-diy-d...minewt-250-cordless-deconstructed-691919.html



Black Bart said:


> You claim NR overstates the claimed output of the 600 by "100-200" and reference a Russian website that does not show test data on a single NR product.


That Russian website has Cygolite products, plus Princeton Tec, Cateye, Petzl, etc. Cygolite has very good products similar to Niterider's offering (and price). 



Black Bart said:


> The NR light comes with a dedicated Smart Charger, the ability to charge from any USB source is a bonus.


Again, not really relevant, the most popular selling bike light in my area is a Planet Bike Blaze 2W for $35 using AAs. 

And USB power draws maximum of 500ma. That takes more than 5 hours to charge a light, way too long. 



Black Bart said:


> 1. If your batteries are crapping out after 1-2 years, they are crap. 2. I have a Moab that's 5 years old that still goes 7+ hours on high running the original battery. I have a set of NR halogens from '98 (Digital NiteOwl and Trailrat) that still function fine as a backup or loaner set, the original NiteOwl battery lasted 5+ years (older technology). My TriNewt still runs the same today as it did 3 years ago. Ditto my 4 year old MiNewt X2.


1. I agree, I was exaggerating for effect because inexpensive readily available replacement is a bonus. FWIW, I haven't had a single 18650 cell failed on me yet (4 years running), although my brand name lights have their battery pack wires fraying already long ago. 
2. Considering that the original Moab battery runs for 12 hours, 7 hours is quite a decay. I can understand why you are loyal to Niterider, so far your experiences have been good (or so you say). 



Black Bart said:


> What's the run time of these flashlights on a single battery on the highest setting? Looks like it's about 30minutes vs. 1:30 for the 600.


Depends on the model, the ones using 2.5A power draw, expect a little over an hour. The ones using 1A draw, 2.5 hours. No one is going to buy these lights if the runtime is only half an hour. 



Black Bart said:


> 1. I'm not "poo-pooing" the idea of getting by with these cheaper lights, although I'd say the MagicShine is a better option for bike use, but your claim that you can get a light 3x brighter for $20. 2. You can't, a lower lumen light-$45, batteries to match run time, charger, mount ~$25 = ~$70. 3. If you're looking for a good light to use on a road bike while turning training laps around NYC, a quality light like the NR is a much better option if you can swing the extra few $. (You can pickup the 600 for about $127, the 350 for $94) 4. It's also a better and much cheaper option then rigging up his road bike with a dyno hub like a European commuter.


1. I was basing the lumen claim on older weaker Niterider lights, like those silly Minewt X2s when P7 flashlights were all the rage. 
2. Sure you can.

UltraFire WF-501B MC-E (BIN M) 5-Mode 800-Lumen LED Flashlight (1*18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
$20

TrustFire 18650 3.7V 2500mAh Rechargeable Lithium Batteries (2-Pack) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
$7

OEM 2*18650 Lithium Battery Charger (110V~240V AC) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
$7 (two batteries)

Universal Bicycle Mount for Flashlights and Gadgets (2cm~3cm Diameter Adjustable) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
$3

The total is $37 for a 600 lumen light, and all the numbers were rounded up. And the light mount is $3, so I don't know what people were doing about rigging up PVC clamps or nonsense like that. 

3. I disagree, Cygolite Trion 600 is a better light than Niterider Minewt.

4. Dynamo light is not exclusive to commuters. I'm guessing you've never seen a dynamo light on a rando/long distance/audax road bike in real life. If one is going to be training at night or riding at night more often, dynamo light is simply the best option.


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## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

tarwheel2 said:


> Ironically, I find that a brighter light is more important on "somewhat lit" streets than totally dark roads.


I agree.

I live in the city and work in the city. I commute after dark from September to April. I found I need more light to be seen *and recognized* against the backdrop of streetlights, store lights, and car headlights.

I've gone through several different headlights in the past, but the first one that got me *respect* from both motorists and pedestrians was the MagicShine. 

Other lights I've had help me see and can be seen, but motorists misjudge my distance, and pedestrians misjudge my speed. With the MagicShine, they both stop and wait for me to pass before pulling out or stepping out in front of me.

In the city, that's more important to me than anything else a headlight is good for.


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