# Too much intensity in training?



## MCG DAWG (Jul 12, 2012)

A little background before I pose the question.

39 years old, 193lbs. Cycling now for 14months. Had an elite level distance running career I gave up at 18 and did nothing aeorobic till January of 2012 when I got on the bike. Found I loved it, have some decent speed and power, and was asked to joint LBS race team. 

Due to life (family, young kids, job) my riding over the winter plummeted to the point I was only getting 1 ride a week there for two months of maybe 50 miles at best. From now till September I'm allowed at most 8hrs of riding a week. 

Past few weeks I've averaged two rides a week and with the time change I get to jump up to three. I am not riding a trainer indoors yet because (a) I'm riding for fun and enjoyment (b) riding inside is not fun nor enjoyable (c) yeah I'm going to race but don't want to be so good that I'm willing to be miserable on a trainer. 

I've felt like I was getting strong the past couple of weeks and getting back some decent strength and endurance. Did a total of 6 hours last week in three separate 2 hour rides. I spent 3 hrs 15 minutes in Zone 4 (HR - 165-182 as determined only by what strava delineated) and 35 minutes in Zone 5 (HR >182). The majority of time in both these was during the two solo 40mile rides I did at 19.8mph avg with 2000ft of roller type climbing but no long hills/mountains. 

I enjoy pushing myself, I enjoy the feeling of holding threshold rate for long periods of time, and on solo rides I probably hammer it too much. 

I've done no reading on training concepts and have no idea if such high intensity riding is hurting or helping me. I'll be doing primarily road racing with a few crits possible throughout the summer. I have the general inkling I probably need to spend less time at these higher intensities and that is easily accomplished by doing more group rides as they are plentiful in this area (north Georgia). Would love some basic advice on what I should look at doing other than just going out and riding hard 2-3 days a week and racing a couple of times a month. I have ZERO desire to do any highly structured training regimen like I've seen some others I'm racing with stick to but am very interested in more of the general though process and mindset I should have about training hard/easier/longer/shorter, etc. Any book recommendations greatly appreciated as well. Feel free to include all the physiology stuff you want, I'm a doc and have some decent recall of that from the days in med school.


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## Ian45 (Jun 10, 2011)

I am in a similar situation as you and just started reading up on cycle training. I have a job, young kids, and am 39 years old also! I got "The Time-Crunched cyclist" which is suggested on this forum a lot. The author suggests a power meter so I picked up the Sram quarq crank based meter also to use with my Garmin 800. Getting me to get another expensive gadget is not super hard. But anyway that is a good book to start on I think. I am going to read it again while my knee recovers due probably to over training and not enough stretching. I also got "Training and racing with a power meter", "The power meter handbook", and "The cyclists training bible." I have my reading work cut out for me for a bit. If I am going in the wrong direction please comment. I am pretty ignorant about cycle training but am trying to learn.


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## hrumpole (Jun 17, 2008)

Ian45 said:


> I am in a similar situation as you and just started reading up on cycle training. I have a job, young kids, and am 39 years old also! I got "The Time-Crunched cyclist" which is suggested on this forum a lot. The author suggests a power meter so I picked up the Sram quarq crank based meter also to use with my Garmin 800. Getting me to get another expensive gadget is not super hard. But anyway that is a good book to start on I think. I am going to read it again while my knee recovers due probably to over training and not enough stretching. I also got "Training and racing with a power meter", "The power meter handbook", and "The cyclists training bible." I have my reading work cut out for me for a bit. If I am going in the wrong direction please comment. I am pretty ignorant about cycle training but am trying to learn.



Those are all useful books, and they all contain plans. (Don't knock the trainer--I hated it initially and now really like it-you just need to use it with a purpose.) 

Short story:


1. run test.
2. Find FTP.
3. Ride to raise FTP (95-100 percent). (40 min "on" in an hour is a good workout)
4. Ride faster than for less time to develop a top end. (25min "on" in an hour is a good workout @ 120percent FTP).
5. Ride slower than that for more time to develop endurance.

The hardest thing to learn for me was to pace steady efforts using gears, cadence, and grade. Much easier to run intervals on a course you know vs. one you don't. But that's me. The other books will fill it in. 

Cheers.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

MCG DAWG said:


> A little background before I pose the question.
> 
> 39 years old, 193lbs. Cycling now for 14months. Had an elite level distance running career I gave up at 18 and did nothing aeorobic till January of 2012 when I got on the bike. Found I loved it, have some decent speed and power, and was asked to joint LBS race team.
> 
> ...


I suspect you are over rating the volume of high intensity in your riding and have very little to be concerned with on that front, but really it's not possible to say given the limited data you likely have at your disposal.

To improve you need to apply a training stimulus for a while that's either different to and/or more than what you've been doing. That stimulus is a combination of intensity, duration and frequency.

You should consider increasing the frequency that you ride to 5-6/week before worrying about much else. 2-3 per week won't cut it for long. But you might be lucky and be genetically blessed such that your aerobic capabilities are good enough for the racing goals you have despite limited training.

I'd also be looking at doing rides that will help prepare you for riding at speed in close proximity with others, and in race scenarios. Skills and tactical nouse takes time and lots of experience to develop. You don't get that from reading.

If you want to learn about exercise physiology, then get your hands on a decent ex phys text, such as the Textbook of Work Physiology by Astrand and Rodahl.


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## new2rd (Aug 8, 2010)

At almost 20 mph averages assuming a loop or out and back, I would say you are working pretty hard. I know some strong guys that have 20+ years riding and they don't work that hard. However, I'm fairly new at this stuff. I also have a Quarq and I'm using the Time Crunched cyclist training plan. I'm in pretty good shape, but the first time doing 2 min intervals going as hard as possible and then holding on... well lets just say that time stands still and the second minute is pure hell. I'm sure these are torture for everyone, but wow it's an eye opener. Tough rides at FTP feels good and can be tough, but it's nothing compared to short power intervals especially when you realize you are cooked with 5 more to go.


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## MCG DAWG (Jul 12, 2012)

Alex_Simmons/RST said:


> I suspect you are over rating the volume of high intensity in your riding and have very little to be concerned with on that front, but really it's not possible to say given the limited data you likely have at your disposal.
> 
> To improve you need to apply a training stimulus for a while that's either different to and/or more than what you've been doing. That stimulus is a combination of intensity, duration and frequency.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the advice. I'd ride every day if I could. However, it's taken a great amount of negotiating with the wife just to wrangle a ride after work Tuesday and Thursday each week and a long ride one day each weekend. 5-6 days a week of riding is never going to happen. I work a lot and we have 2yo/4yo sons that require a lot of attention as well. Truly not fair to her or my sons to leave them more than I already do just to feed my addiction to cycling and a growing love of racing. 

I am lucky and genetically blesed with aerobic capability which is why I've been able to rapidly move up in my cycling ability. Not bragging about it, it is just one of those things I was fortunate to be blessed with that others don't have. However, as my LBS owner/friend/sponsor says "there's nothing worse than a cyclist with a ton of ability and a severe lack of knowledge or experience". I always laugh because that is me. One thing that years of distance running did hone in me though is an ability to get in the pain cave and stay there in order to succeed. Many of the recreational guys I ride with hit that point and slow it down. To me I thoroughly enjoy getting just to that line and maintaining it as long as possible without bonking. 

Hopefully I can gain a little knowledge and get some good saddle time in some Cat 5 races over the next few months. I'll be able to see how I match up with the other competition at this level. I've done a good bit of training rides starting in last November with a large group of local competitive cyclists and we've done some race scenarios, have attack zones on group rides, etc. Been great, as you suggested, getting that type of experience instead of riding around in a single file pace line all the time.


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## plx (Mar 28, 2011)

SST is the way to go, i improved 10% already this year


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## PTJ (Mar 7, 2011)

I have little experience in structure but I've found that after a base of a 1000 to 1500 miles is established then simple but intense intervals really help with race scenarios. Mine are simple. I start by going as hard as I can for 30-45 seconds then very easy for 2-3 minutes. 
As fitness improves stretch the interval out a little longer. If you go as hard as possible it should be difficult to do this more than 3 or 4 of these in a given ride. 

I've never liked trainers but I do like rollers. There good for recovery days and if you spin at a cadence of 90-110 it will help to smooth out your pedal stroke. Without spinning good circles you'll get a bouncing effect at high cadence. If you can only get out 3 days a week try to get 2-3 short(20-30 minutes) roller or trainer sessions on your off days.

In a race your heart rate is a good indicator of how far your gas pedal is pushed regardless of how you feel. If your 5 beats from your threshold and someone attacks you will have a hard time responding. 

My two kids and I race mountain,CX and road so no extra money for power meters for now. I hope some of this helps. Good luck with racing this year.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

I always thought this was a pretty good metaphor for a basic training program (although she could probably swap '4' for a lot of the '7's)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GxbJTeX7JUg#t=83s

Seriously, at first just ride a lot, hit most of the zones and try to be consistent. Try to figure out how you can fit the most riding on the most days into your weekly life. You'll make huge gains at first just by adding time. After that ends, worry about training programs.


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## mjengstrom (Apr 20, 2009)

I agree with what others have said and I am in a similar situation, but I also juggle running and swimming in addition to cycling. This year, I am focusing more on cycling though. When you are time crunched, you have fewer levers you can adjust to apply increasing/different stresses on the body. Adding intensity is the primary focus. But at some point, you will hit a wall where you can no longer increase intensity without it impacting future workouts and it will be difficult to continue to make progress. At this point, you will need to look at increasing volume or frequency to make gains. 

One advantage of the trainer is it allows you to be more flexible on when you ride (not dependent on good weather or daylight). There are also several tools you can use to make riding on the trainer more enjoyable. ex, TrainerRoad.com, Sufferfest Videos, Netflicts, etc.. I see noticeable difference in my fitness if I supplement my riding with a few trainer rides per week. They dont have to be super structured. Even adding an extra 1-2 rides a week of 45-90 min can help. I enjoy my races and group rides a lot more when I am not constantly falling off the back. 

Out of curiosity, how did you set your zones? When you are time crunched its even more important to use proper zones. Sounds like you have a good aerobic capacity though. How are you at climbing, sprinting, bridging a gap, etc? understanding your weaknesses, will also help you know where to focus you training.


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