# Cost efficient weight shaving



## Rocket-Sauce (Nov 9, 2005)

I am wondering what the best bang for my $$ would be to shave tome weight off my new 06 Pinarello Galileo. Also, what would yield the most noticeable difference? For example should I switch the saddle + seat post or bar + stem first?

Currently it has 105 derailers, brakes and brake/shifters. Everything else is M.O.s.t (house brand). http://www.gitabike.com/cgi-bin/shop/sc_searchz.cgi?user_id=28594&database=dbase_bike.exm&template=pin_sr2.htm&0_option=1&0=pb-g105

Cheers, 
Dave


----------



## dhtucker4 (Jul 7, 2004)

The problem with saddles - if the local bike store will let you demo a bunch (preferably on a trainer with bike shorts on), it's very expensive. I have done that route with so many bike shops (they won't let you demo expensive saddles). I had for 18 months a Selle Italia Flite Trans Am - but I found out when the road is wet, my nether regions get soaked, then I bought a used regular Flite (it was advertised at being right at 200 grams, but on my very accurate scale it weighed 228 grams). It has some give where I need it, and decent padding. No wonder it's Selle Italia's most popular saddle for over 15 years.

If you want to save a little weight, change out your seatpost for a carbon fiber one with an alloy head (reasonable cost) - or get a Thompson Masterpiece seatpost (not cheap). A friend of mine bought his Thompson Elite seatpost 10 years ago, and he still uses it when he gets a new frame/bicycle. 

I think your drivetrain might need upgrading to Ultegra, but use a Dura Ace cassette and a Dura Ace chain - the Dura Ace cassette lasts almost forever, I'm talking about the 9-speed cassettes, but the 10-speed cassettes seem to hold up jast as well.

Your cockpit (stem, bars, saddle, seatpost, pedals) might be something you can work on lessing the weight. I like Ritchey WCS road stems, because they don't creak and are pretty stiff. If you want to get carbon fiber bars, get a Kestrel Pro - it has a lifetime guarantee, and you can mount aero bars on it. It has a bunch of Kevlar in it.

Tires/tubes - I like high tpi (threads per inch) clincher tires with high pressure. Grand Prix 3000 are on sale, see if you find one 700X23 and one 700X20 - the 20 is for the front. I had great results with Veloflex Pave 700X22 (180 grams), Specialized Mondo Pro 700X23 (210 grams), and the always reliable Vittoria Open Corsa CX 700X23 (230 grams). I heard good things about Deda clinchers, About the tubes I use - I always get a tube about 80 grams, but I like latex tubes because they flex more than butyl tubes do.


----------



## Spunner (May 31, 2006)

Lose 10 lbs...now thats cheap:wink5:


----------



## neilthemeal (May 24, 2004)

KNCN has a seatpost that comes in under 150 grams for $88. I'm guessing 100 grams savings

Ritchey WCS Stem + Bars can be had together for around $140 and will drop some weight maybe around 50 for the stem and 50-75 for the bars

Saddle also but it has to be comfortable probably looking at around $75. you could end up liking an slr and drop 150 grams or a C2 and drop 50-75 grams

And for that $300 I estimate 300 grams although it is tough to say without knowing the weight of the actual M.o.s.t. parts.

If the wheels are indeed the Shimano R550's they are a beefy 1830 grams. If you got some custom wheels for about $400 that'd also drop about 300 grams. http://oddsandendos.safeshopper.com/2/cat2.htm?100

Plus side to new wheels is you should be able to get a fair price on ebay for your wheels so it should cut the cost a little bit.

Neither of those options are all that cheap but if you do things one piece at a time in a while you'll end up with a fairly light bike.

tires are a good way to drop some weight. Michelin Pro Races are light and fairly flat resistant. this will be cheap and you can do it whenever your old tires wear out so it really isn't a cost to you.


----------



## AlexCad5 (Jan 2, 2005)

Hate to say it but you should have started with the Ultegra version if you were looking to shave weight already. Wheels should be where you start first. Stem, bars, seatpost, seat, cranks and bb. pedals, rear derailleur, brakes, shifters, saddle, and the list goes on until the point of silliness.
 The weight loss process gets really expensive really fast. End result ultimately doesn't effect your speed on the bike either.


----------



## Bryn (Jul 9, 2005)

AlexCad5 said:


> Hate to say it but you should have started with the Ultegra version if you were looking to shave weight already. Wheels should be where you start first. Stem, bars, seatpost, seat, cranks and bb. pedals, rear derailleur, brakes, shifters, saddle, and the list goes on until the point of silliness.
> The weight loss process gets really expensive really fast. End result ultimately doesn't effect your speed on the bike either.


Im pretty sure that this thread was titled, cost efficient weight savings. The most expensive weight saving = a new wheelset.

My adivce would be to upgrade the things that you think need upgrading. eg, if you find the saddle uncomfy, get a lighter one. If your bars are too wide, get narrower, lighter ones. Get what needs upgrading and get lighter parts at the same time. It'll lighten the bike whilst increasing your comfort and position on the bike.


----------



## Duckman (Jul 21, 2005)

Yeah but..

If one didn't get customs like the ones from Mike G at Oddsandendos(whom I really like and have 3 wheelsets from to date), they'd save tons of $ and still get the most effective weight loss imho. The machine built Xero XR1s are a true 1500gm wheelset for $199. See link below..

https://www.greenfishsports.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1283

Then, since THE best place to start is most always tires/tubes(since low end oem stuff is most always wirebead tires and heavy tubes)..then run some sale tires like the Hutchy Carbon Comps(200gm-2 for $44) or Peformanace DC(195gm) whatevers(2 for $36) and the $2.99 Perf. Ultralite tubes at 75gms. Now you've got a pretty compv wheelset setup. 

My TCR2 came with 105 stuff and no name bars/stem, Xero XR3 wheels(1950gms), etc. I used the Price Point Avanti bars($19.95!!) and saved a whooping 100gms over the crappy oem bars. Ritchey Pro stem saved another 70gms($36). Ultegra brakes($70 buy it now, on Ebay)and RD($31 Ebay), Altho I'm now using a 27t Duraace cog(rcycled from my race HT mtb), its not really the best $ value since it costs big $ and is a 'wear' item. SLR saddle and USE Alien cabon post(both recycled tho from the same race mtb), and so on.. 

Next thing you know, the 21lb TCR2 is now 17lb 12oz. 

Typcially, a buck per gram is thought of as a worth while weight loss ratio. Since those cheapo wheels up above lost a full pound(454gms) of spinning weight for only $200...


----------



## slowdave (Nov 29, 2005)

today i rode with a mate who just purchased a gallieo, my upgrades would be tyres veloflex pave, corsa, record, master. dedas i believe are made by veloflex. The rider is also going to replace his wheels with fulcrum 1 or racing carbos depending on $$. But best upgrades are to ride then ride some more and replace bits as they wear out.


----------



## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

Duckman said:


> Typcially, a buck per gram is thought of as a worth while weight loss ratio. Since those cheapo wheels up above lost a full pound(454gms) of spinning weight for only $200...


A worthwhile cost per gram for bike weight loss is whatever the rider thinks is right. I'm sure that Juanmoretime isn't really put out by his cost per gram ratio, and the $6.67/g weightloss that I paid for my as yet to be delivered cranks is well worth it in my view. And I just paid $12.59/g for the weightloss between my beautiful Ligero wheels and a new set of wheels......and I'm tickled pink.


----------



## Juanmoretime (Nov 24, 2001)

alienator said:


> A worthwhile cost per gram for bike weight loss is whatever the rider thinks is right. I'm sure that Juanmoretime isn't really put out by his cost per gram ratio, and the $6.67/g weightloss that I paid for my as yet to be delivered cranks is well worth it in my view. And I just paid $12.59/g for the weightloss between my beautiful Ligero wheels and a new set of wheels......and I'm tickled pink.


Sure I'm concerned about cost but I just want to make sure I'm getting a fair price on the best. I've spent almost 50 years on this Orb and worrying about a few pennies compared to my my total enjoyment of my bicycles is nothing. You can save for a rainy day but you have to be around to enjoy it. I've seen plenty save for the future, which is not a bad thing, but they didn't make it to the future. I'll be fine financially when I retire, I pay all my bills and I'm paying for my two daughters college education. I'm also going to enjoy myself while I'm here. 

While I'm at it I'm also reviewing Alienator's adoption papers. I may have to add a few clauses regarding the like father like son purchases.


----------



## parity (Feb 28, 2006)

Competitve Cyclist has a break down of the weight of each part:

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=BUY_BIKE&PRODUCT.ID=1848

I don't know how accurate it is but this may give you some ideas.


----------



## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

Juanmoretime said:


> While I'm at it I'm also reviewing Alienator's adoption papers. I may have to add a few clauses regarding the like father like son purchases.


Now, what is that supposed to mean? I've been muy careful with my purchases.....

FWIW, Dad, you know, I am a grad student and have done the TA thing, so if Sis#1 and/or Sis#2 need some extra special attention, I'm there for them.


----------



## collectorvelo (Oct 30, 2003)

*and if*



Spunner said:


> Lose 10 lbs...now thats cheap:wink5:


wonder if the OP is already too light
or at is ideal fitness / weight level

can you generally say anyone should lose 10 lbs?


----------



## Duckman (Jul 21, 2005)

alienator said:


> A worthwhile cost per gram for bike weight loss is whatever the rider thinks is right. I'm sure that Juanmoretime isn't really put out by his cost per gram ratio, and the $6.67/g weightloss that I paid for my as yet to be delivered cranks is well worth it in my view. And I just paid $12.59/g for the weightloss between my beautiful Ligero wheels and a new set of wheels......and I'm tickled pink.


Well "doh", and of course. Thats all a given imo. I was just simply stating a universal starting point which I've seen stated many many times at the WW forum at mtbr. We ARE talking "cost" here, right? But, like you, I'm just sitting fine with way less payback then whats stated above. Like my triple ti egg beaters..or 1400gm Stans Olypmic disc wheelset(Mike Garcia)...or ti spoked disc wheelset(Mike Garcia)...or 717/AC disc wheelset(Mike Gacia)..or Stans alum rotors...or Formula B4SLs...or FRM all alum ISIS bb and 5 bolt compacts(42-30-20), hollowpin chain, 11-27 Duraace cog(modified with 11t) mtb drivetrain...bla bla bla. Of course thats why I race a 21lb 2oz FS disc mtb atm. Also have no money most of time because of... But, I sit all "pinky" as well. Choose your poison.


----------



## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

Duckman said:


> Well "doh", and of course. Thats all a given imo. I was just simply stating a universal starting point which I've seen stated many many times at the WW forum at mtbr. We ARE talking "cost" here, right? But, like you, I'm just sitting fine with way less payback then whats stated above. Like my triple ti egg beaters..or 1400gm Stans Olypmic disc wheelset(Mike Garcia)...or ti spoked disc wheelset(Mike Garcia)...or 717/AC disc wheelset(Mike Gacia)..or Stans alum rotors...or Formula B4SLs...or FRM all alum ISIS bb and 5 bolt compacts(42-30-20), hollowpin chain, 11-27 Duraace cog(modified with 11t) mtb drivetrain...bla bla bla. Of course thats why I race a 21lb 2oz FS disc mtb atm. Also have no money most of time because of... But, I sit all "pinky" as well. Choose your poison.


But we gotta keep in mind that the goalposts are in constant motion, so light, strong, and cheaper parts are popping up more and more.


----------



## flying (Feb 17, 2004)

Juanmoretime said:


> I've spent almost 50 years on this Orb


I like that  It would make a good sig line too 

Other than that +1 on all Juan said !!


----------



## jeremyb (Jun 16, 2004)

neilthemeal said:


> KNCN has a seatpost that comes in under 150 grams for $88. I'm guessing 100 grams savings
> 
> Ritchey WCS Stem + Bars can be had together for around $140 and will drop some weight maybe around 50 for the stem and 50-75 for the bars
> 
> ...



Yeah the KCNC Ti Prolite is probably one of the best value seatposts out there. 116 grams for 250 mm or 142 g for 350 mm and only $88. 

Syntace F99 and TTT Prima 199 bars are light and cheap.

Try to stick to a dollar per gram. Thats a pretty good rule.


----------



## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

jeremyb said:


> Yeah the KCNC Ti Prolite is probably one of the best value seatposts out there. 116 grams for 250 mm or 142 g for 350 mm and only $88.
> 
> Syntace F99 and TTT Prima 199 bars are light and cheap.
> 
> Try to stick to a dollar per gram. Thats a pretty good rule.


 But it's been $1 per gram as long as I an remember and just in Greenspan's reign the dollar lost 44% of its value. Should be at least $2 gram by now based on that and using un-hedonically fiddled chain weighted BS CPI numbers.


----------



## marshall21205 (Apr 21, 2006)

if you want to reduce weight that you will notice go with the moving parts not stagnant parts (i.e. cranks or wheels or saddle/post or bars/stem) you will feel the difference in the moving parts MUCH MUCH more than the non moving parts.

marshall


----------



## neilthemeal (May 24, 2004)

All right, the breakdown helps...

Stem from 150 grams to 110 if you find a Ritchey WCS(check out the ads they're always there)

Saddle from 290 to 200, lots of comfortable options in the 200 gram range.

Seatpost from 220 to 140, I still stand by the KCNC.

This is a big change but the option won' be around forever K force Isis cranksets are 460 grams, and can be had for $220, KCNC is 140 grams for $60. Yes it is $280 but it's also 275 grams. Plus some serious bling with that crank.

Thats almost 500 grams for about $450 if you shop around. 

This goes to the previous debate of wheels versus everything else. Just for a reference we'll use Mike Garcia's Aerohead wheel with the Niobium 390 gram rim in place of the aerohead. It's $400 and just a shade under 1500 grams. Thats $400 for 350 grams.

Good luck,


----------



## Juanmoretime (Nov 24, 2001)

neilthemeal said:


> All right, the breakdown helps...
> 
> Stem from 150 grams to 110 if you find a Ritchey WCS(check out the ads they're always there)
> 
> ...


I have a set of K-Force cranks on my training bike that replaced a set of Superlights. I will preface this saying that the K-Force cranks and rings are awesome. My Superlights in 172.5 came in at 528 grams not the 505 grams claimed by FSA and the K-Force cranks weighed in at 523 grams in 175mm not the 460 claimed. They are great cranks just not as light as FSA claimed.


----------



## Rocket-Sauce (Nov 9, 2005)

That is why the first upgrade should always be tires/tubes.


----------



## danielhaden (May 19, 2006)

I guess that one could use tires and tubes that way.
There is enough variety of tires and tubes to allow them to be used to compensate for weight--if no other factors are important, such as traction, cornering, ride quality, specific pavement type, puncture--such as if tire features were completely unimportant. 

You can almost get there that way. 

However, if durable tires are needed, then upgrade your wheels first. 

That will actually be less expensive, because guessing the "right tire" for you, your application, and your bike usually takes about 4 to 12 tries. 

Going with the tire approach, most tire features (or lacks) are most obvious on the front tire. So, you could save quite a nice sum by "test driving" just on the front and seeing what differences there are.

But, in reality, a change of wheel will have a drastic effect on the performance of the tires.

SO,

Wheels first.


----------



## Rocket-Sauce (Nov 9, 2005)

I just ordered those Xero XR1. Can't wait. 

Thoughts on what cassette to go with?


----------



## jeremyb (Jun 16, 2004)

Rocket-Sauce said:


> I just ordered those Xero XR1. Can't wait.
> 
> Thoughts on what cassette to go with?



if you want a superlight race day cassette go KCNC.

Otherwise, Dura Ace.

j


----------



## team_sheepshead (Jan 17, 2003)

Just curious: What is your ultimate goal in buying these new, lighter parts? To go faster, or to have a lighter bike, or something else? Your profile says you've been riding for a long time, so you've probably read all the info about the correlation betwen bike weight and speed. More power to you if you want to make your brand-new bike lighter, but I'm just curious why someone would want to immediately upgrade their brand-new bike?

I only ask because I've been there, too. Brought home a bike and thought, "How can I make this lighter?" Enjoy your new wheels and happy riding.



Rocket-Sauce said:


> I just ordered those Xero XR1. Can't wait.
> 
> Thoughts on what cassette to go with?


----------



## Rocket-Sauce (Nov 9, 2005)

*All in fun*

Like I said in another thread, I get plenty of enjoyment out of the bike as is, and the last thing going through my head when I am out riding is how the bike is too heavy -even on steep climbs... I love my bike, but it is fun to dream up a better version of it. 

It's reading forums like this that lead me to believe that my bike is overly hefty at just under 19 pounds. Rationally I know this is crazy since I am 6'04" and over 200 pounds (and I don't have 10 pounds to lose without getting weaker). Wh I am not riding my bike, I am thinking about riding it. During my lunch hour I will look at these forums and I start thinking that I should upgrade it to make it lighter -until I get out and ride. So I guess I should get out and ride more so I will stop wishing for a lighter rig. :idea: 

I am going to leave it as is for the forseeable future. I will upgrade things as they wear out, but won't replace anything that is perfectly functional. New wheels are a bit of an extravagance I freely admit, but this is the only upgrade I spent any $$ on (I switched out the saddle/post with older Flite Evolution and Easton post that I won -which mad my ride much more comfy).

And I love dropping guys with their over-the-top sub-15 pound mega$$ machines. Especially on the climbs. 

See you on the road!


----------



## gambo2166 (Oct 20, 2004)

Veloplugs.. cheep and thay work!! 
http://www.bikemania.biz/VELOPLUGS_p/velocity_plugs.htm


----------



## Doggity (Mar 10, 2006)

You're probably gonna notice the effects of more training quicker than you wll losing a few hundred grams. That said, the place to lose those grams is where things ROTATE: ie, rims, tires, crankset, etc. Dynamic weight vs static weight is how the guy at the LBS explained it to me. So, who CARES if you lose 150 gms on yer saddle, if yer wheel set weighs a kilogram? I've got a handbuilt wheel set on order that's going to lose me about 500gms there...will let you know if I notice it or not.


----------



## alienator (Jun 11, 2004)

Doggity said:


> You're probably gonna notice the effects of more training quicker than you wll losing a few hundred grams. That said, the place to lose those grams is where things ROTATE: ie, rims, tires, crankset, etc. Dynamic weight vs static weight is how the guy at the LBS explained it to me. So, who CARES if you lose 150 gms on yer saddle, if yer wheel set weighs a kilogram? I've got a handbuilt wheel set on order that's going to lose me about 500gms there...will let you know if I notice it or not.


Your LBS guy is out of step with physical reality. The performance difference between a bike that's lost 150g on the saddle and a bike that has lost 150g on the wheels is next to nothing. Humans just don't accelerate bikes fast enough for the differences to be significant. That said, losing weight on wheels _is_ an efficient way to lose weight because there really is nowhere else on the bike where so much weight can be lost at such a relatively low cost. Yeah, it is cheaper to lose body weight....if you've got body weight to lose....but that ain't the question is it?


----------

