# Todays stage. (spoiler)



## mtnpat (Mar 8, 2002)

So what happened to Simoni today? How happy could he really be that Cunego is minutes up on him? Are there enough mountain stages left for Simoni to catch up?

-mtnpat

PS: How about our boy Mr McEwan, typical sprinter, eh?


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## p lo (Sep 26, 2002)

*mountains*

The next 3 stages are all mt stages and gibby will have his chances i think? if not he will make them. it really was a perfect move by seaco today.

mcewen quiting was pretty pre-planned by his team as far as i could tell. no sense struggling trough the mts for 4 days for him.


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## jschrotz (Feb 3, 2004)

*re: today's stage*

I don't think today's final climb was really suited for someone like Simoni to rip people's legs off. He needs the real steep stuff to take advantage of his power-to-weight ratio. On the less steep climbs like today's the other guys have the power to stay w/him. The stage on the Gavia is going to tell the story of this year's Giro. Earlier in the Giro, Simoni was able to leave everyone, including Cunego, behind when the going got really steep. Saeco is still Simoni's team and they're still working to get him in the final pink jersey. Today's result takes the pressure off of Simoni. Now Simoni can do as Cunego did today. Saeco has all the cards to play at this point.


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## Dwaynebarry (Mar 16, 2004)

mtnpat said:


> So what happened to Simoni today? How happy could he really be that Cunego is minutes up on him? Are there enough mountain stages left for Simoni to catch up?
> 
> -mtnpat
> 
> PS: How about our boy Mr McEwan, typical sprinter, eh?


McEwen said before the Giro started he would pull out before these stages. It makes no sense for him (already said he's tired 2 days ago) to kill himself for 4 stages and put himself in a deep hole, when he knows he's got to recover to ride the Tour. Plus, he'd probably just lose to Petacchi in Milan anyway


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## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

*McGee*



mtnpat said:


> PS: How about our boy Mr McEwan, typical sprinter, eh?


McGee is out, Petacchi was 20+ minutes behind, but McGee stayed fairly close to the front. I continue to be impressed by him at this Giro.


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## Steve-O (Jan 28, 2004)

*McGee and...*



MarkS said:


> McGee is out, Petacchi was 20+ minutes behind, but McGee stayed fairly close to the front. I continue to be impressed by him at this Giro.


McGee has been a surprise as has Serguei Gontchar. Both are TT gurus that I didn't think could climb. Lets see what they do in the next few stages in the mountains though...


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## TurboTurtle (Feb 4, 2004)

*Excellent strategy, I thought....*

The oppositions' tactics were to sit on Simoni's wheel as shown when he attacked first and then Cunego went. The result was Simoni sitting in all day saving strength and now Garzelli and company cannot keep letting Cunego go. Saeco is in the driver's seat. Sit on Simoni's wheel and Cunego wins. Chase Cunego and Simoni sits on your wheel until it gets real steep, then bye bye. The opposition needs to find a really unique alliance to stop Saeco.

TF


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*my guess*

is Saeco can flip flop the pink. I don't think on the next stage (not steep enough) but after that. they can send Simoni on the break and have Cunego 'sit on'. forcing everyone else to pick their poison. I think Saeco's gonna have them both on the podium. If they keep sitting on Simoni, will he be 'team guy' and protect Cunego? He didn't look too happy crossing the line today. Saeco is by far and away playing great tactics for the win but it may cost Gibby. So nice to see great team tactics applied in racing. Popo suffered the fate of a man without a team today. Left out to dry with no support.


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

Perhaps, it just seems that the only way Simoni can take over from Cunego is for Cunego to get off the bike and walk. He's got time on Simoni. Gib will have to really light it up to make it look like he deserves this.


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## wheelsucker (Jul 10, 2002)

*a tradeoff*

Maybe (but I doubt it), Simoni is going to give the Giro win to Cunego in exchange for his help in the Tour. Simoni is using the Giro to prep for the tour Wouldn't that be great for Simoni too be added to the list of serious contenders. He hasn't looked as dominating in the Giro as in years past. WIth the profile of this years tour is suits climbers like Simoni, Heras, etc.. Maybe just a little wishful thinking.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*wishful indeed*

the flat TT's will kill Simoni in the Tour, I still don't see him as a real TdF contender (I didn't last year as well). Cunego's break today had nothing to do w/ Gib's lack of form. was purely a tactical move to protect him and put all the other contenders under pressure. Simoni couldn't counter as
a) hill wasn't steep enough to drop everyone
b) he can't pace set or be the carrot for the opposition to get back to Damiano
(was very similar to 2001(?) TdF when Lance was waiting for Heras to drop Beloki, Roberto couldn't do it and was forced to sit on instead of going for the bridge)
c) Cunego's lead is what 2 and a half minutes, my guess is if Simoni is on form he'll make that gap on the Gavia.

I don't think his (their) plans have changed, the Giro is Gibs to win or lose. If he lacks form then he'll hand the mantle to Damiano but my guess is he's being a very good team leader and mentor. Today was a great tactical move by Saeco, but I don't see them changing plans midstream unless something calls for it. Look for Saeco to thin the herd on Friday or Saturday, launch Gib and have Cunego sit on.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

atpjunkie said:


> the flat TT's will kill Simoni in the Tour, I still don't see him as a real TdF contender (I didn't last year as well). Cunego's break today had nothing to do w/ Gib's lack of form. was purely a tactical move to protect him and put all the other contenders under pressure. Simoni couldn't counter as
> a) hill wasn't steep enough to drop everyone
> b) he can't pace set or be the carrot for the opposition to get back to Damiano
> (was very similar to 2001(?) TdF when Lance was waiting for Heras to drop Beloki, Roberto couldn't do it and was forced to sit on instead of going for the bridge)
> ...



I think things have changed. Simoni through his comments in cyclingnews.com is clearly not happy with the day's results. He's now talking about a team victory for the Giro and he's mentioned the TDF as the upside for having a strong Cunejo.

Simoni said that 'he sent Cunejo out' since the peloton was too controlled. He's pissed though that Popovych didn't chase and he was probably surprised by how well Cunejo rode. With one signal, he accelerated his transition from Team Leader to Team domestique.

The harsh part is Simoni has no chance in TDF. And if Cunejo is really riding this good, why shouldn't Simoni work for him in TDF. It sounds like there was significant team leader controversy (in the public's eyes) even before the Giro started. With today's results and if Cunejo wins the Giro, Simoni's Saeco reign is in jeopardy.

For the record, I don't think Cunejo is ready for the TDF either. He will be too tired and his time trialing needs work. Vuelta de Espana will be a good target though.

francois


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*agreed*

as I said I think it was a good 'team tactic' but it may have backfired on Gib. everyone sat on him instead of chasing. I'm sure he was hoping to ride the chase and then attack when it was time, no one took Cunego that seriously and now he has a gap. still think 2:39 can be made up Th. and Fri. Gib looked bummed at the line. Completely agree about TdF, people don't understand how much harder it is than the Giro. There's none of that 'piano' crap at the Tour. Far faster, meaner and neither Gib nor Damiano have the TT or the overall legs (especially after doing the Giro) to stand up to the top tour riders.


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## FORZA! (Feb 13, 2004)

*oh, it's good. and it's not over*



atpjunkie said:


> as I said I think it was a good 'team tactic' but it may have backfired on Gib. everyone sat on him instead of chasing. I'm sure he was hoping to ride the chase and then attack when it was time, no one took Cunego that seriously and now he has a gap. still think 2:39 can be made up Th. and Fri. Gib looked bummed at the line. Completely agree about TdF, people don't understand how much harder it is than the Giro. There's none of that 'piano' crap at the Tour. Far faster, meaner and neither Gib nor Damiano have the TT or the overall legs (especially after doing the Giro) to stand up to the top tour riders.


you called it right. it certainly looked like Simoni expected the other contenders to work to try and pull back Cunego, and then launch his own attack (exactly as he did earlier in the giro to get the maglia rosa). instead, when no one else wanted to (or could) chase, he was left to ride tempo. 

both Cunego and Simoni are saying all the right things about team unity, etc. Gilberto may win the giro yet, though. gavia is steep and looong, while mortirolo is REALLY steep. i can't wait to see what happens!


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

FORZA! said:


> you called it right. it certainly looked like Simoni expected the other contenders to work to try and pull back Cunego, and then launch his own attack (exactly as he did earlier in the giro to get the maglia rosa). instead, when no one else wanted to (or could) chase, he was left to ride tempo.
> 
> both Cunego and Simoni are saying all the right things about team unity, etc. Gilberto may win the giro yet, though. gavia is steep and looong, while mortirolo is REALLY steep. i can't wait to see what happens!


Simoni did attack but five other riders stayed with him easily. 

Simoni admitted he couldn't hang with the young gun:



> Simoni Vows to Support Teammate
> 
> Two-time winner Gilberto Simoni knows his chances of winning a third Giro took a blow Tuesday when he didn't have the legs to follow Cunego's winning move.
> 
> ...


Simoni has no chance at the Tour. He might be the 10th best climber there. His only hope is a stage win after he gets 25 minutes down on GC, and the GC contenders let him go. 

Poor Simoni- shot his mouth off last year about the TdF, and the angry cycling gods smote him for it. At this rate he will be fetching water bottles (or riding in a D2 team) next year.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

FORZA! said:


> you called it right. it certainly looked like Simoni expected the other contenders to work to try and pull back Cunego, and then launch his own attack (exactly as he did earlier in the giro to get the maglia rosa). instead, when no one else wanted to (or could) chase, he was left to ride tempo.
> 
> both Cunego and Simoni are saying all the right things about team unity, etc. Gilberto may win the giro yet, though. gavia is steep and looong, while mortirolo is REALLY steep. i can't wait to see what happens!


Definitely not over but the scales have tipped. The kid now has confidence and Simoni has doubts.

Who would have thought?? Simoni sent Cunejo out to wear him out and shake things up. The others were supposed to chase Cunejo and wear themselves out. The others were weaker than expected and Cunejo was stronger than expected. Simoni looked like a distressed little puppy back there knowing his GC chances were getting significantly damaged.

Now here's where Simoni is disappointing... he doesn't have the good stuff. He's in 4rth place. He couldn't make time on gontchar and popovich still managed 3rd place. 
1 Damiano Cunego (Ita) Saeco 73.01.21
2 Serguei Gontchar (Ukr) De Nardi 1.14
3 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Landbouwkrediet-Colnago 2.22
4 Gilberto Simoni (Ita) Saeco 2.38
5 Giuliano Figueras (Ita) Ceramiche Panaria-Margres 3.31

Cunego can't yield to Simoni until he dispatches of Gontchar and popovcyh.

francois


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## Utah CragHopper (May 9, 2003)

FORZA! said:


> Gilberto may win the giro yet, though. gavia is steep and looong, while mortirolo is REALLY steep.


The Mortirolo is the most likely place for Simoni to go for the win. But he needs to get into a position where he does not look like he is attacking Cunego. He could follow someone else as they make an attack. The only problem is that none of the other contenders look like they have the legs to do it.

His best chance is to have Cunego melt down. Not something I would bet on though. Cunego looks really strong while climbing and I am not convinced that he could not have followed Simoni on stage 3.

Poor Simoni. A plan hasn't backfired this badly since Bush invaded Iraq.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

More cracks in the Saeco foundation:



> With young sensation Damiano Cunego in the maglia rosa at the Giro d'Italia, and team leader and defending champion Gilberto Simoni 2'38 behind in fourth place, it's anyone's guess as to how the Saeco team will emerge from the final three days of climbing in this year's race. Both riders and the team have repeatedly put on a diplomatic face concerning the respective roles of Cunego and Simoni, though Gibo's disappointment was clear when his young protégé rode away with the stage win and the jersey in stage 16.
> 
> Cunego started the Giro saying without hesitation that Simoni was the team leader, but a lengthy run in the maglia rosa after two early stage wins can reshape a young contender's mindset. At a rest day press conference in Falzes, both riders spoke of a 'pact' between them as crunch time arrives in the Giro.
> 
> ...


Sure looks like Cunego is going for the win, and his team isn't going to stand in the way.


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

....I was just thinking the only way Simoni is going to win is if he changed into a werewolf...speaking of the devil....

<IMG SRC="http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/images/04giroSt16/$file/14.jpg">


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*I think*

Gibo needs the STEEP. Fri and Sat. will be interesting drama if Damiano looks weak. Does Gibo stay and pace-set? Will he only be allowed to go if it's a counter to a GC competitior? I don't think Damiano has the pure climbers legs as Gibo and his time on the steep climbs has shown it. Gonna be high drama tomorrow.


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## p lo (Sep 26, 2002)

*cadel evans*



atpjunkie said:


> Gibo needs the STEEP. Fri and Sat. will be interesting drama if Damiano looks weak. Does Gibo stay and pace-set? Will he only be allowed to go if it's a counter to a GC competitior? I don't think Damiano has the pure climbers legs as Gibo and his time on the steep climbs has shown it. Gonna be high drama tomorrow.


Remember how strong Evans looked going into the last few climbs of the Giro a few years ago and then he blew. 3 weeks, in theory, is a long time for the younger riders that don't have the years of endurance built up that a rider in the peak of his carrer has(29-32 for grand tours?). i would not be surpised is Damiano blows huge in the next few days. And Gib's chance in the tour are better then ever. only one (really) long time trial and a bunch of mountains in the last week. He probably can't win it, but this is his best chance at a top five or even 3?


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Cadel....*

plus the weight of that Pink Jersey gets heavier the closer you get to the end, especially in the mountains. PRESSURE, I hope the kid does well. Still pulling for Gibo, been quite congenial considering (at least in the publiuc eye)


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## Steve-O (Jan 28, 2004)

*Geeze*

I just watched LOTR Return of the King last night and I'm drawing a lot of goofy Giro analogies this morning.

The Pink Jersey = Ring of Power (the weight is heavy to the holder)
The red, watching eye of Sauron = The red colored jerseys of Saeco patrolling the front of the peloton
Damiano Cunego = any elf in the movie
The Gavia = Mount Doom
Gandolf the Grey = Phil Liggett

Geeze... I better get some more coffee after staying up 'til 1:00am and then riding to work this morning...


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

It's all over now. Simoni had nothing for Cunego today and it doesn't look like he'll ever have anything over him. He's not just a good climber but has explosive power as well...I think lots of potential for some really big stuff in the future.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*at least you were watching movies.*

I was working until 4:30 AM, slept an hour and a half and watched the stage. Gibo just lacks form. If Cioni could reel him in his climbing is 'off'. He's not on the same form he was last year or is just having a BUNCH of 'bad days' (which is what being off-form will get ya)
once again just impresses me more the guys who can win multiple GT's, amazing how they can always be ready for the big dance.


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## BAi9302010 (Mar 7, 2002)

well here are my own 2 cents...

I think Simoni might have been lacking a little of his climbing edge today because he should have easilly been able to maintain and expand that gap over the rest of the GC riders on the final climb. Why do I say this...Gontchar did a lot of the pacing to catch him and Gontchar def isn't known for his climbing ability. Cunego has a good sprint but if he was as good of a climber as they say, he should have been able to do more than drop his group in the sprint (I think he's more of a Jalabert type rider).

Tomorrow's stage (saturday) has steeper climbs more suited for the "pure" climbers like Simoni, and if everything works out for him he should at least be in with a shot for the stage win. As for Saeco, I don't think the managment cares who wins the GC as long as it's in the team, but I think Simoni may rightly be feeling bitter towards Cunego for not supporting him 100% as he had promised before the start (If he had known this was going to happen he probably would have requested Saeco leave him off the team).

If Simoni really wants that long shot of winning the GC he's going to have to do the following...

a. Form an alliance with a couple of strong riders, whether they're in or out of his team.

b. Make an all-or-nothing attack on saturday's stage against Cunego and hope that his climbing ability on the steep inclines pays off and he can make up the time he needs (even if it means that he loses his top 5 GC spot if it doesn't work out)

c. He needs to be well rested and hope that he finds the right form at the right time.

It's really a long shot but he's gotta do what he's gotta do if he wants to win this race and we all know he has what it takes when he's going well. Was'nt it the 2000 Giro where he won the race on the final mountain stage? Who knows, maybe he could even make an alliance with Garzelli who appears to be riding very well now.... ;-)


btw-If you haven't noticed I'm a bit of a Simoni fan and I'm a little peeved that Cunego didn't keep his word in supporting Simoni.


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## BAi9302010 (Mar 7, 2002)

http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/2001/giro01/results/stage20.shtml

well it wasn't 2000, it was 2001 and he already had the race lead, but Simoni won the last mountain stage in that year by two and a half minutes over Savodelli. 3 minutes is a huge amount of time to make up on Cunego but if Simoni is riding well and Cunego isn't on top of things it could make a huge difference in how things work out.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

BAi9302010 said:


> well here are my own 2 cents...
> Cunego has a good sprint but if he was as good of a climber as they say, he should have been able to do more than drop his group in the sprint (I think he's more of a Jalabert type rider).
> ....
> 
> btw-If you haven't noticed I'm a bit of a Simoni fan and I'm a little peeved that Cunego didn't keep his word in supporting Simoni.


There's 2 brilliant reasons why Cunego didn't take off today and blow everyone away at the finish:

- why risk it? Tomorrow's a hard, hard stage and it's better planning not to go all-out at the finish today. He's a young guy and still learning how his body reacts to a grand tour.

- he was out there helping Simoni. With about 2k to go, Cunego took the lead and paced the group of 4 to the top. This helped Simoni improve from 4th to 3rd place in GC since Popovych was not in the lead group.


I realize this must be a tough tour for a die-hard Simoni fan. Remember though that when Cunego attacked ont he fateful Stage 16, Simoni told Cunego to attack. Attack Popovych and his pink jersey. The way it turned out, Cunego got lucky. No one really considers him a traitor.

Today, Simoni attacked the pink jersey of Cunego. I thought that was odd. It doesn't seem to be a big deal though since it failed and also, the defending champ deserves a shot.

Now here's something controversial... on the stage that Simoni won, stage 4 I think where Simoni took off and won by 15 seconds over Cunego... I now think Cunego gave that win to Simoni. Simoni put the hammer down a long way from the finish and won by a little bit. He did not look that good and looked like he was losing his lead. Cunego looked fresh and finished second to take the time bonus away from others.

francois


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## BAi9302010 (Mar 7, 2002)

well on the cyclingnews live update they stated that Simoni had some not so nice coments for Cunego l;ast night in front of the press...and as I'm writing this Simoni just took off with Garzelli on the Motorillo!! let's see what happens


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

Yeah he called him a ******* and ignorant.


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## hammer_cycle (Apr 7, 2004)

As far as I'm concerned, Simoni is a spoiled brat. Blah blah blah.. he just didn't have it this year. (Just like he didn't have it at the Tour to make Lance see what a 'REAL' climber does).

Cunego lucked out and really didn't do anything to deserve the ire of Simoni. He will probably get blamed again by Simoni because it looked like Saeco asked Simoni to stop working for a bit with Garzelli. That probably cost him the couple of seconds he needed to get into 2nd place.


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## RiDE (May 28, 2004)

Me thinks Gibo's head got a wee bit too big for his helmet.


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

What's Cannondale going to do about this. It's obvious Cunego is riding a CAAD7 as his daily bike instead of the newer Six13.


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## Utah CragHopper (May 9, 2003)

hammer_cycle said:


> As far as I'm concerned, Simoni is a spoiled brat.


I've been waiting for Simoni to get his a$$ kicked since the emergence of the Simoni hooligans. Once Simoni started working with Garzelli, Cunego should have attacked, caught the pair, and dropped them. Who's the ******* now, Simoni?.


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## Dwaynebarry (Mar 16, 2004)

Utah CragHopper said:


> I've been waiting for Simoni to get his a$$ kicked since the emergence of the Simoni hooligans. Once Simoni started working with Garzelli, Cunego should have attacked, caught the pair, and dropped them. Who's the ******* now, Simoni?.


Even if Simoni's mouth is a bit much at times, it would very nice to see him show up at the Tour with his top form. And it was nice to see Ullrich finally showing some hint of good form for the first time this year this past weekend. Both the GC men and the sprinters are promising to make this year's Tour a very good one at this point.


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## Utah CragHopper (May 9, 2003)

Dwaynebarry said:


> Even if Simoni's mouth is a bit much at times, it would very nice to see him show up at the Tour with his top form.


I'd like to see Simoni and Heras duke it out on a mountain top finish.


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

Maybe if Simoni had put on his poker face he could have scared Cunego away...


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*it looked as if*

saeco played the same gig it had been. send the #2 man and allow team leader to 'sit on'. the difference was Cunego had the legs to do something with it. Simoni's inability to drop Gontchar and/or Cioni shows he's not the man he was last year. Cunego did a great job as a teammate marking everybody for Gibo on the climb and then going with Cioni and dropping everyone else. The only person Gibo should be upset with is himself.


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