# Fit Question: Effect of lowering stem



## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

I got my Scott Addict SL about a year ago and was fitted at the time. When the bike left the shop, the stem was on top of the spacer stack - three spacers. Over the past year, I've moved the stem down one spacer at a time... Now, no spacers. I'm comfortable in this lower position. So, I'll likely keep the stem where it is. (although I can't bring myself to lop off the excess steer tube)

Q: Has this change in position made a significant impact on my fit - should I make any adjustments to the seat?

Thanks.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Assuming your seat was set up correctly to begin with: No

Stem position is for reach and drop. Seat position of to get your legs over the pedals in the way they should be. Two separate things.
In the case where lowering the stem forces you forward on the seat.....that means you need a shorter stem or your bike doesn't fit you anymore. But if you seat yourself the same way as before (again, assuming you were right on to begin with) you're good to go with the seat as is.


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## QuattroCreep (Nov 30, 2009)

No, dropping the bars does not effect the position of your seat. Your seat should be set by leg length and position behind the BB. Dropping the bars will lengthen your reach but to fix that you would get a shorter stem. If you are comfortable I would not worry about it.


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## SidNitzerglobin (Jun 22, 2010)

Not to hijack, but I've been debating going ahead and dropping and/or flipping the stem on my Roubaix for a bit now but have held off due to fear of screwing up what is overall a pretty comfy fit that I paid a decent chunk of change for. My main problem is that I feel a bit too upright and I wind up hunching my shoulders. Probably my stem is too short for the current height and angle of the setup. Aside from being more aerodynamic I also feel a bit stronger in my pedal strokes when I am really focused on getting low with a larger bend in my elbows and my forearms pretty much parallel to the ground, but I run into an issue with my arms getting sore just above the elbows if I maintain this posture for extended periods of time.

Makes sense that saddle height and front/back position wouldn't need to be changed w/ this move, but it seems to me like the angle might need to be nosed down to avoid massive junk crushage when in the drops or on the aero bars. Would this have a tendency to push me off of my sitbones?


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## Trouble (Apr 3, 2004)

Bars level with the saddle would solve those problems.
Rather than lowering the bars, put on a longer stem.
There is no data supporting that bars being lower is better.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

OldZaskar said:


> I got my Scott Addict SL about a year ago and was fitted at the time. When the bike left the shop, the stem was on top of the spacer stack - three spacers. Over the past year, I've moved the stem down one spacer at a time... Now, no spacers. I'm comfortable in this lower position. So, I'll likely keep the stem where it is. (although I can't bring myself to lop off the excess steer tube)
> 
> Q: Has this change in position made a significant impact on my fit - should I make any adjustments to the seat?
> 
> Thanks.


If you're comfortable with the bars lowered the answer is no, no need for any saddle adjustments. 

For sake of discussion (and to indirectly answer Sid's question), if there were to be any adjustments needed, initially it would be in the way of tipping the saddle nose down _slightly_, because the more aggressive position changes a riders pelvic angle slightly. Changing saddle angle would help keep weight supported by the sit bones. And because as saddle to bar drop increases the rider moves down and forward, if the change were large enough, there _might_ be a need to move the saddle back slightly to compensate for increased frontal weight. Adjust back far enough and a shorter stem might be necessary, but that would take a fairly large change (or the rider was at the limit of their reach requirements prior to making the changes).


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## Trouble (Apr 3, 2004)

Tipping a saddle forward causes another problem and goes away from supporting the sit bones and puts it more on soft tissue. Unless you're talking about a Brooks, flat saddles should be level front to back. The exceptions are those that are saddled front to rear, i.e. Aliante, then the back should be level.

You can change the "aero" shape of the rider without necessarily changing the pelvic angle and in fact you shouldn't change the pelvic angle, not unless we're talking TT.
There is no data supporting a rider being lower as more efficient. It reaches a point (rider dependent) where there is ill effect. Keeping arms and legs in is more effective aerodynamically speaking.

Lastly, moving the seat back and shortening the stem is signs of an ill-fitting bike, not too mention it will become poor handling.

OP mentions there are no issues with the saddle position and only that he like the lower bar position. Stop there. 
The saddle position can be changed, but only when it has something to do with that part of the body, i.e. hammies are tight-lower the saddle. 
Never mess with the saddle position to effect change in the front end.

Too many people riding too small of bikes with too much bar drop.
I just never got comfortable on a bike like that. It took me riding a bike almost 4 cm bigger with level bars that I was able to ride longer, faster and more comfortable.
Hey, even a lot of manufacturers are going to the higher head tubed bikes...
I'm just sayin.


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## Lazy Spinner (Aug 30, 2009)

I agree. The trend went way too far towards low head tubes, steep head tube angles, lots of exposed seat post, and criterium handling. 90% of bike riders don't need any of that.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

Lowering the bars has the effect of rolling the hips forward and making your effective knee angle more obtuse. If the bars were dropped any significant amount, I would consider lowering the seat a few mm's. 

Have you had any hamstring/calf/lower back discomfort?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Trouble said:


> Tipping a saddle forward causes another problem and goes away from supporting the sit bones and puts it more on soft tissue. Unless you're talking about a Brooks, flat saddles should be level front to back. The exceptions are those that are saddled front to rear, i.e. Aliante, then the back should be level.
> 
> You can change the "aero" shape of the rider without necessarily changing the pelvic angle and in fact you shouldn't change the pelvic angle, not unless we're talking TT.
> There is no data supporting a rider being lower as more efficient. It reaches a point (rider dependent) where there is ill effect. Keeping arms and legs in is more effective aerodynamically speaking.
> ...


Except for the bolded statement, I don't disagree with most of what you're offering, but you're applying my suggestions to the situation the OP described, and that's not how they were intended. In his case, since there are no ill effect relating to fit, he should make no adjustments. 

My comments/ suggestions after that related to a situation where a rider dropped the bars enough to start feeling pressure ahead of the sit bones, due to a change in pelvic angle (and yes, with enough of a change, angle does change some). In this case, dropping the tip _slightly_ (a keyword) will relieve that pressure point, and continuing to drop the bars may necessitate moving the saddle slightly back to compensate for the rider moving forward (again, slightly) as he did so. 

Go a step further (with saddle to bar drop), and a shorter stem _may_ be required. And to clarify, I'm not promoting more (drop) is better, simply offering what changes in fit may occur as the rider makes larger adjustments. 

I agree that making fore/ aft saddle adjustments to compensate for reach is clearly wrong, but there are valid reasons for changing stem length, with a substantial drop in bar height possibly being one.

EDIT: Regarding your bolded statement. If a rider is experiencing hand discomfort/ numbness, one possible cause is excessive frontal weight. In this case, a slight aft saddle adjustment can shift the riders weight rearward enough to relieve the discomfort.


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

This is great guys - thanks! The seat is still comfortable. I do find that I'm often sliding forward a bit - particularly on climbs. I've attributed this to being a mountain biker. Because the mtb climbs can be so steep, shifting the weight forward on the seat actually just keeps one's weight in the neutral position; also, keeps weight on the front to keep it from unweighting/airing on very steep stuff. I'm pretty sure I was doing that before dropping the stem... it's just an old habit.

I'm beginning to think it may be time to do a bit of a refit - 7,000 miles later, I've probably established my position on the bike.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

OldZaskar said:


> This is great guy - thanks! The seat is still comfortable.* I do find that I'm often sliding forward a bit - particularly on climbs*. I've attributed this to being a mountain biker. Because the mtb climbs can be so steep, shifting the weight forward on the seat actually just keeps one's weight in the neutral position; also, keeps weight on the front to keep it from unweighting/airing on very steep stuff. I'm pretty sure I was doing that before dropping the stem... it's just an old habit.
> 
> *I'm beginning to think it may be time to do a bit of a refit *- 7,000 miles later, I've probably established my position on the bike.


It could be argued that you've already begun your refit with the bar drop, so you might be right about that.  

On the topic of sliding forward, if you aren't experiencing any hand discomfort, you're probably fine with making no adjustments, but one thing to check is that your saddle is level. If not, consider leveling it. I don't think you dropped the bars enough that doing so would be an issue, but you could always return it to the original position if it were.

My other post mentions moving the saddle aft (only 2-3mm's), with the effect of moving rider weight rearward slightly. To clarify, I'm not professing you do this if you haven't experienced hand discomfort, it's simply a FYI for future use should the need arise.


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## Trouble (Apr 3, 2004)

PJ352 said:


> Except for the bolded statement, I don't disagree with most of what you're offering, but you're applying my suggestions to the situation the OP described, and that's not how they were intended. In his case, since there are no ill effect relating to fit, he should make no adjustments.
> 
> My comments/ suggestions after that related to a situation where a rider dropped the bars enough to start feeling pressure ahead of the sit bones, due to a change in pelvic angle (and yes, with enough of a change, angle does change some). In this case, dropping the tip _slightly_ (a keyword) will relieve that pressure point, and continuing to drop the bars may necessitate moving the saddle slightly back to compensate for the rider moving forward (again, slightly) as he did so.
> 
> ...



These forums are full of anecdotal remedies, that's all they are. Take a couple of different stem lengths, an allen wrench with you and go through all the possible fits. "You never know what is enough
until you know what is too much."

Lowering the bars is not the only way to roll the hips forward. Moving the bars farther away accomplish the same effect WITHOUT the strain on the neck. Just as bringing the bars closer raises the riders upper body.

Dropping the bars AND moving the saddle back should never happen together. You are collapsing the pelvic angle and causing a host of collateral issues.

There is NO advantage to dropping the bars. Bar drop (I'm talking in excess of 2-3 cm is a result of riders (mostly racers) using smaller framed bikes for weight reasons and (posers) to look cool. 
Functionally, when the seat height is right and the bars are even or a couple cm, MOST riders are more comfortable, able to ride longer and perform better. 

Hand discomfort (or what you refer to as too much weight) and numbness are too different maladies and should be resolved accordingly. 

I stand by my recommendation that saddles should be level except as I noted.

To the OP, you say you find that you're sliding forward, especially on climbs. There's a reason why.

This is my anecdotal remedy...


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Trouble said:


> These forums are full of anecdotal remedies, that's all they are. Take a couple of different stem lengths, an allen wrench with you and go through all the possible fits. "You never know what is enough
> until you know what is too much."
> 
> Lowering the bars is not the only way to roll the hips forward. Moving the bars farther away accomplish the same effect WITHOUT the strain on the neck. Just as bringing the bars closer raises the riders upper body.
> ...


FWIW (and again) I agree with much of what you say, and also subscribe to the 'moderate drop' philosophy. No offense meant to the OP, because we don't know where in his 'range' he's now positioned, but I find that if I bend my arms at the elbows I've essentially duplicated that more aggressive/ lower position.When riding conditions change, I can revert back to the more comfortable position.

Regarding the bolded statement, what I said was_ one possible cause... _was excessive frontal weight and IME (yes, anecdotal) tilting the saddle tip up slightly and/ or moving it back 2-3mm's is, many times, an effective remedy. 

To the OP: Another thought on the tendancy to slide forward may be that you're tightening your grip on the bars (along with keeping your upper torso tight) and pullling yourself towards the front. Seems a more likely reason than fit, but I still think the saddle position should be checked.


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## Bill Bikie (Jul 24, 2010)

*Try cycling specific weight training*



SidNitzerglobin said:


> ...getting sore just above the elbows if I maintain this posture for extended periods of time...QUOTE]
> 
> I do push-ups and shoulder shrugs all year 'round, and general weight training October thru April.
> 
> ...


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## Mtn2RoadConvert (Aug 28, 2006)

I recently flipped my 6 degree stem from the up position to the down position. It helped me achieve a better aero position and improved my average speed on my normal club ride. Because the hands were now about an inch lower I had to lower the saddle about 2-3mm and angle the nose down slightly. I do notice my hands going numb faster during rides due to the additional weight on the handlebars from the new position. I'm working on strengthening my core to take the weight off the hands.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

Trouble said:


> Bars level with the saddle would solve those problems.
> Rather than lowering the bars, put on a longer stem.
> There is no data supporting that bars being lower is better.


Aerodynamics doesn't ring a bell ?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Mtn2RoadConvert said:


> I recently flipped my 6 degree stem from the up position to the down position. It helped me achieve a better aero position and improved my average speed on my normal club ride. Because the hands were now about an inch lower I had to lower the saddle about 2-3mm and angle the nose down slightly. *I do notice my hands going numb faster during rides due to the additional weight on the handlebars from the new position. I'm working on strengthening my core to take the weight off the hands.*


Strengthening the core is a fine plan, but unless you started feeling pressure ahead of the sit bones, I would keep the saddle level. I also see no correlation between a riders saddle height and bar drop, so unless you're experiencing knee pain, your saddle height shouldn't change. 

As I mentioned earlier, IME aft saddle adjustment will also result in moving the riders weight rearward slightly (less weight on the arms/ hands). A 2-3mm adjustment may be all that's needed. 

Just guestimating on your set up, flipping a 6* stem extends reach by about 7mm's and drops the bars 2cm.s. That's a fairly large change, so depending on your fitness/ flexibility, you may be at your limit on reach and/ or drop. I'd keep any adjustments small and get some saddle time in before making more, but along with those mentioned above, consider a 1cm shorter stem - if the hand discomfort continues.


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## AlexCad5 (Jan 2, 2005)

PJ352 said:
 

> I also see no correlation between a riders saddle height and bar drop, so unless you're experiencing knee pain, your saddle height shouldn't change.


This is said too gently. The seat height is determined by how long your legs are and no other factor. Period.


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## Trouble (Apr 3, 2004)

PJ352 said:


> FWIW (and again) I agree with much of what you say, and also subscribe to the 'moderate drop' philosophy. No offense meant to the OP, because we don't know where in his 'range' he's now positioned, but I find that if I bend my arms at the elbows I've essentially duplicated that more aggressive/ lower position.When riding conditions change, I can revert back to the more comfortable position.
> 
> Regarding the bolded statement, what I said was_ one possible cause... _was excessive frontal weight and IME (yes, anecdotal) tilting the saddle tip up slightly and/ or moving it back 2-3mm's is, many times, an effective remedy.
> 
> To the OP: Another thought on the tendancy to slide forward may be that you're tightening your grip on the bars (along with keeping your upper torso tight) and pullling yourself towards the front. Seems a more likely reason than fit, but I still think the saddle position should be checked.


If and when I want to get lower (uh...more aero?  I just bend at the hips (which results in more bend in the elbow) and get into the drops. It engages the larger muscles and does reduce frontal drag. BUT, as you have mentioned, I can return the the more comfortable upright position on the hoods.
I also use this position for fast cornering on road, mtb and motocross. It plants the front tire and avoids front end washouts.

You're also on the right thought about sliding forward. When it happens under hard load, it's a good indication that you not stable on the bike and your fit is jacked up and you're not balanced.

I couldn't agree with you more about aft saddle position. 3-5 mm shift back can make a huge difference in comfort. 
Raising your saddle also relieves pressure from the hands, can increase power output and reduce leg fatigue. 
Saddle height is more than just the length of your legs. You have to take into account, hamstring flexibility and foot length to name a few. 
It's sooo easy to set saddle height and fore/aft I just don't get why people pay money to people who just measure static angles.
My bike position often changes (usually within a cm) throughout the year. 




Salsa_Lover said:


> Aerodynamics doesn't ring a bell ?


Why not ride with one of those TT helmets, solid rear wheels, 22 tires, aerobars, shoe covers, skin suit...now there's an aerodynamic bell ringing.
Keeping knees and elbows in is much more effective...ding, ding, then simply dropping the bars and more comfortable for most...there reaches a point of negative return and a whole host of issues the biggest being unable to take deep breaths (higher HR).

I digress and I apologize for having just gone off on a couple of rants. My bad.....sorry.

What was the OP?
Oh yeah, leave the stem alone, don't cut the steerer and I doubt it has made a "significant" impact on your fit and no, don't mess with your saddle just because you lowered your bars.
Why didn't I just post that in the beginning...???


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

AlexCad5 said:


> This is said too gently. The seat height is determined by how long your legs are and no other factor. Period.


May be too gentle, but IMO it's not quite that black and white. Flexibility (or lack thereof), whether a rider points toes down, pedal stack height and the height/ shape of the saddle itself can all affect saddle height. But certainly in the OP's (and likely in Mtn2RoadConvert) situations, there's no need to change saddle height.


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

Thought a pic might help...

Couple things to note 
- I'm about 6'1.5" with a 36.5" inseam (yeah, I know) so I ride a 61cm frame. 
- Seat to bar delta = 4"
- The seat is just slightly nose-down. The thinking behind this was to put me in a more comfy position give the delta b/w the seat and bar.

Thoughts?


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## Trouble (Apr 3, 2004)

A 92.71 cm PBH would explain the seat so far forward (shorter torso) and why you like the bars lower (longer arms)
Are you comfortable? If not, what ails you?

Everyone has their opinon about seat tilt. Mine is that you have a flat seat and tilting it down causes you to roll forward on the tissue under your sitbones (if you ride sitting up no handed, do you feel level or like your rolling forward?) (your pelvis should be stable/level when on the bars) and puts more weight on hands. But, if none of these are an issue with you, then ride and be happy.

Pics really can't help fit questions, they just look good...if you like carbon fiber bikes. I'll take a lugged steel any day.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

If you're only fit issue is that you're sliding forward (and you're confident it's not due to a death grip on the bars and tight upper torso pulling you forward), try leveling the saddle. If you decide to do so, make sure the bike is level and either use a level or straight edge before and after adjusting.


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

Trouble said:


> ...what ails you?


Good question... nothing. I'm comfortable on the bike - standing, sprinting, sitting, 25 miles, 100 miles... But I had a professional fit - and then I made changes. I'm really just wondering if these changes - while minimal and not making me less comfortable - had any affect that I might not feel; but might show, e.g. stop watch, etc.

Sounds like the net is two fold:
1. Level up that seat a bit and see how it feels
2. Just ride.

Thanks!


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## martinrjensen (Sep 23, 2007)

*flip it*

Flipping a stem, assuming it's not a quill stem, is a 10 minute job. It's easy enough that it can even be changed in the field on a ride if you don't like it. Change it and see if you like it. If you don't, take 10 minutes and flip it back. Also, find a used bike parts shop and buy various lengths of stems to try different lengths. if you have one of these stores handy, stems are usually pretty cheap. Your LBS might let you borrow some used ones to test also. Don't worry about junk crushage and your sit bones. You will feel these when you take your test ride and know if you have a problem. There's no magic here, you've been riding a while now. If it's uncomfortable, it's not good. Note the change will feel different and give it time to get used to it.Again, "if it doesn't fit, you must acquit"*. *(change back)


SidNitzerglobin said:


> Not to hijack, but I've been debating going ahead and dropping and/or flipping the stem on my Roubaix for a bit now but have held off due to fear of screwing up what is overall a pretty comfy fit that I paid a decent chunk of change for. My main problem is that I feel a bit too upright and I wind up hunching my shoulders. Probably my stem is too short for the current height and angle of the setup. Aside from being more aerodynamic I also feel a bit stronger in my pedal strokes when I am really focused on getting low with a larger bend in my elbows and my forearms pretty much parallel to the ground, but I run into an issue with my arms getting sore just above the elbows if I maintain this posture for extended periods of time.
> 
> Makes sense that saddle height and front/back position wouldn't need to be changd w/ this move, but it seems to me like the angle might need to be nosed down to avoid massive junk crushage when in the drops or on the aero bars. Would this have a tendency to push me off of my sitbones?


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## SidNitzerglobin (Jun 22, 2010)

Trouble said:


> Bars level with the saddle would solve those problems.
> Rather than lowering the bars, put on a longer stem.
> There is no data supporting that bars being lower is better.


I'd have to add ~2.5-3" of head set to the stock set up to have the bars at the same height as my saddle and I'm really happy w/ my saddle height. Seems like at that point I might as well be riding a hybrid w/ bar ends from a posture perspective.

I think you're spot on as far as needing a longer stem. I'm sort of kicking myself because I had them swap the stock 90mm stem for a 75mm when I bought the bike. At least they're relatively cheap. 

I tried an experiment today and dropped the stem by a 3/8 " spacer and took off 4 degrees of rise, rotated the bars to compensate for the change in angle, and also dropped the nose of the saddle by ~1/2 turn of the bolts (probably about a degree or so). I still felt slightly bunched up. Felt fine from a back/neck/arm/hand/junk/sitbone perspective, but I was only able to get in 30 miles so I'll have to reserve judgment until I can get in some longer rides. I did notice that I seem to have a tendency to roll my elbows out when going to the flat forearm posture but i don't know if that's necessarily any different than with all the spacers in place.

I probably do need to get back to my upper body isometrics and crunches on a regular basis. There never seems to be enough time in the day...

Anyways, thanks for the input guys. Sorry to have jumped onto your thread in a hijacker-ish fashion OldZaskar.


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## Trouble (Apr 3, 2004)

OldZaskar said:


> .... But I had a professional fit - and then I made changes...


 
The "pro fit" (just typing that annoys me) made changes or you made changes after the "pro fit"?

In any case (below)



OldZaskar said:


> Good question... nothing. I'm comfortable on the bike - standing, sprinting, sitting, 25 miles, 100 miles... I'm really just wondering if these changes - while minimal and not making me less comfortable - had any affect that I might not feel; but might show, e.g. stop watch, etc.


This may ruffle your feathers, but you have way too much time on your hands if this is worrying you...
Just ride the damn thing. 




SidNitzerglobin said:


> I'd have to add ~2.5-3" of head set to the stock set up to have the bars at the same height as my saddle and I'm really happy w/ my saddle height. Seems like at that point I might as well be riding a hybrid w/ bar ends from a posture perspective.
> 
> I think you're spot on as far as needing a longer stem. I'm sort of kicking myself because I had them swap the stock 90mm stem for a 75mm when I bought the bike. At least they're relatively cheap.
> 
> ...


I don't advocate moving your saddle at all. Unless you meant your bars. In that case you're just being a joker by saying you might as well be riding a Hybrid. Bars level or just below saddle is no where near a Hybrid. I get the sarcasm though.

A 75mm stem is way to short IMO. Anything shorter than a 120 for me and I git skeeered on fast descents...too twitchy. I like the bars hanging out closer to the axle.

Are you rolling your elbows out to avoid contact with your knees? If so, yeah you might be to short in the cockpit. And what with the flat forearms? I know there's an old rule about elbow 90 forearm level...is that what your talking about or do you actually ride with forearm parallel to the ground?


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

PJ352 said:


> If you're only fit issue is that you're sliding forward (and you're confident it's not due to a death grip on the bars and tight upper torso pulling you forward), try leveling the saddle. If you decide to do so, make sure the bike is level and either use a level or straight edge before and after adjusting.


To PJ352's suggestion, I would only add that, depending on what kind of level you're using, try using a thin wide board or a stiff piece of cardboard as well. Lay that on the saddle and then lay the level on top of that. It helps to even out some of the variances of the contours of the saddle.


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## OldZaskar (Jul 1, 2009)

Trouble said:


> This may ruffle your feathers, but you have way too much time on your hands if this is worrying you...
> Just ride the damn thing.


Wow... much of what you said previous to this was beginning to make me think you might know what you were talking about. So, I shouldn't care if I'm - in or close to - my optimal position on the bike? I should just ride the damn thing? 

My point was that comfortable may not equal efficient. Just because I'm comfortable on the bike, doesn't mean that's where I should be. And no - I don't advocate being uncomfortable to be fast. My goal - as is just about everyone on this board - is to be in the most efficient (power, aerodynamic, etc.) position - that IS still comfortable. 

Leveled out the saddle - at the same height. Riding in the am to test...


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## Trouble (Apr 3, 2004)

OldZaskar said:


> Wow... much of what you said previous to this was beginning to make me think you might know what you were talking about. So, I shouldn't care if I'm - in or close to - my optimal position on the bike? I should just ride the damn thing?
> 
> My point was that comfortable may not equal efficient. Just because I'm comfortable on the bike, doesn't mean that's where I should be. And no - I don't advocate being uncomfortable to be fast. My goal - as is just about everyone on this board - is to be in the most efficient (power, aerodynamic, etc.) position - that IS still comfortable.
> 
> Leveled out the saddle - at the same height. Riding in the am to test...


Just as I thought, your feathers got ruffled. 
A. I'm only espousing what I know, what works for me. I don't care if you think I know what I'm talking about. To me comfort equates to efficient. 
B. YOU summed it up with 
"2. Just ride."

411 - I don't think you will never have power, aerodynamics AND comfort. There's compromises involved here. 
You said you're comfortable standing, sprinting, sitting, 25 miles, 100 miles.
Stop watches? Come on man... leave it alone and ride.

I'll check back in a couple of weeks. Cool off.


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