# Fanning the Flames: Garmin, Wiggins, and Astana



## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

Of the Tour in 2009, Jonathan Vaughters says:


> Astana were soft-pedalling a bit to not embarrass Lance [Armstrong]


Ouch! 

Should be an interesting 2010 Tour.


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## hipcheck5 (Dec 11, 2009)

I like JV, but he spends way too much time putting his foot in his mouth, and I am not just talking about comments about LA.


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## Miiles (Oct 25, 2008)

Lance Armstrong's Twitter said:


> lancearmstrong
> 
> I won't be forgetting this comment anytime soon. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/cycling/article7017121.ece #whatatool


Made me smile.


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## gh1 (Jun 7, 2008)

I cant say that what he said is incorrect, not sure how many times Contador was railed on for going up the road without Lance.


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## saird (Aug 19, 2008)

Were the rest of garmin (minus wiggins, naturally) softpedalling? They seemed to finish way down on Armstorng. :lol:


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## mjdwyer23 (Mar 18, 2009)

I love all of this winter BS. I can't wait for the season to really start so their legs do the talking.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Vaughters used to be an intriguing figure; sort of an underdog team with a lot of fight in them, led by an unconventional, outspoken leader. Now, he's just acting like an ass.


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

Let the games begin.....

I also agree with previous posts. JV can't get out of his own way sometimes.


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## footballcat (Jul 8, 2004)

The last person you want to make angry is Lance. It has been proven over many years that if he is angry he is going to crush it. 

They are adding logs not twigs to the fire.


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

Wow, way to go and work a pointless stab at Lance into an interview. That comment seems to have just come out of left field. Although, the author of the article probably edited it to make JV look like an ass.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Frankly, I'm not surprised he made such a comment. Maybe I'm hypercritical, but he's always struck me as a disingenuous sort, and a bit of a wah-wah. 

Ah well, they all (those in the spotlight) seem to put their foot in their mouths at one point or another. 

JV is not the only one.

Imho, Levi always shows class and has a "way" of getting his point across without necessarily offending people.


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## Jokull (Aug 13, 2007)

Wow. Sensitive Lance fan alert! JV said a lot of things in that interview, and you pick up on one tiny throw-away line which just happens to mention Lance?


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## btinder (Aug 25, 2007)

gh1 said:


> I cant say that what he said is incorrect, not sure how many times Contador was railed on for going up the road without Lance.


As far as I recall that was only once, and it was because he was already comfortably in the yellow jersey and wound up dropping Lance and Kloden when he attacked, needlessly hurting Astana's chances for a 1-2-3 finish.


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

Jokull said:


> Wow. Sensitive Lance fan alert! JV said a lot of things in that interview, and you pick up on one tiny throw-away line which just happens to mention Lance?


Ah, so did Lance. See Twitter.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

btinder said:


> As far as I recall that was only once, and it was because he was already comfortably in the yellow jersey and wound up dropping Lance and Kloden when he attacked, needlessly hurting Astana's chances for a 1-2-3 finish.


he went at least three times - in stage 7 when he attacked Leipheimer/Kloden lead group early on in the tour, bypassing LA in GC and making sure LA won't get to wear yellow after TTT.
One when he found himself with Kloden and Schlecks, and Armstrong fighting with Wiggo behind - and when he accidentally (or not) dropped Klodi. Third time was on Mt. Ventoux.

Wait, there was also a 4th time, stage 15 which Contador also won.

I don't see how one could make an argument Astana was "softpedaling" for Armstrong. But even if we assume for a second that they did, Wiggo finished 4th to LA - and he was dropped several times whenever the pace accelerated. Soft-pedaling would have benefited Wiggo, and he still missed the podium.

Sour grapes from Vaughters, for some reason he is getting really annoying - he talks a lot bigger game than he can back up by the Garmin record so far. But it makes things interesting.


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## Dan Gerous (Mar 28, 2005)

It made me smile too.  Maybe I'll start paying attention to JV now... maybe not.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Jokull said:


> Wow. Sensitive Lance fan alert! JV said a lot of things in that interview, and you pick up on *one tiny throw-away line which just happens to mention Lance*?



Personally I think in context of the whole article, it sticks out like neon doo-doo.


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## Jokull (Aug 13, 2007)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Personally I think in context of the whole article, it sticks out like neon doo-doo.


I really don't. It was a "smart" comment by someone who likes to think of themselves as "witty" - a throw-away one-liner. I had to look hard to find it - the fact that Garmin received 4 million pounds for Wiggins (twice what most earlier reports have said) stuck out far more!

However, as Mootsie pointed out to me, the fact that Lance has picked up on it *is* a story. Lance now has someone else to get angry at for motivational purposes, and the on-road squabbling in July will now be a 3-way fight between Garmin, Sky and Radioshack!


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

Jokull said:


> July will now be a 3-way fight between Garmin, Sky and Radioshack!


 Don't forget that if BMC and Hincapie get into the Tour, George has an axe to grind with Garmin. 

Should be some interesting dynamics about the alliances that shake out of this.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

moonmoth said:


> Don't forget that if BMC and Hincapie get into the Tour, George has an axe to grind with Garmin.
> 
> *Should be some interesting dynamics about the alliances that shake out of this*.



Indeed! 

And once again, I have to say...I get to actually _be there_ this year.

But what the hell am I going to do without Phil and Paul and Bobke (and that squeaky clean annoying guy) to give me the play by play? 

Oh yes. I know. Ride my bike in the Pyrenees. Eff the TdF. I'll be too busy eating, drinking (_Italian_ vino, thank you) and riding to worry about such things. 

But I _will_ miss starting "I told you so" Lance threads just to p*ss everyone (the Lance-haters) off.


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## locobaylor (Mar 11, 2008)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Indeed!
> 
> And once again, I have to say...I get to actually _be there_ this year.
> 
> ...


Do you need a boy-toy.....?


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

locobaylor said:


> Do you need a boy-toy.....?



Are you volunteering to lend me yours?


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## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

Vaughters is just mad the Allen Lim broke up with him and is going steady with Lance. But I'm happy to see that in addition to mini-Phinney we also now have mini-Lemond. Way to go Vaughters.


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## locobaylor (Mar 11, 2008)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Are you volunteering to lend me yours?


Since I am my own, yes.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

locobaylor said:


> Since I am my own, yes.



Nice save kind of.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

saird said:


> Were the rest of garmin (minus wiggins, naturally) softpedalling? They seemed to finish way down on Armstorng. :lol:


No wonder Wiggins could not wait to be rid of him. Vaughters lives in a dream world where he and his team are big successes, rather than also rans. Garmin = American Cofidis.

Shame decent guys like Dave Z and CVV are stuck with him. Lim jumping ship to Radioshack is making more sense by the day.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Coolhand said:


> No wonder Wiggins could not wait to be rid of him. Vaughters lives in a dream world where he and his team are big successes, rather than also rans. Garmin = American Cofidis.
> 
> Shame decent guys like Dave Z and CVV are stuck with him. Lim jumping ship to Radioshack is making more sense by the day.


starting out with a junior development squad and now stands with top 5 tour de france riders and winner of a "classic" last year? He has been doing OK.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Oh yes. I know. Ride my bike in the Pyrenees. Eff the TdF. I'll be too busy eating, drinking (_Italian_ vino, thank you) and riding to worry about such things.


You're going to France to drink Italian wine?


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## ExtraSlow (Jul 7, 2004)

*When did Michael Ball buy Garmin Transitions?*

Wow, Jonathan Vaughters seems to be doing his best Michael Ball impersonation -- can't wait to see his new line of argyle jeans when they hit their webpage.

I doubt Garmin will stand for much of this kind of talk -- unless, of course, they're winning.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

den bakker said:


> starting out with a junior development squad and now stands with top 5 tour de france riders and winner of a "classic" last year? He has been doing OK.


Big budget program, very little winning, no podiums- talked like his team was a rival of Columbia/Astana/Saxo and came up short. Very short. Wiggins contentious departure, Lim's departure, I have to think a good book could come from an insider some day- maybe from someone like Dave Z.

They have some really good guys (Dave Z, CVV), some tools (Millar), one worse class smug jerk (Capt Sideburns). I am happy to root for Dave and Christian, but otherwise enjoy chuckling at the hubris of the DS over the last couple of years.


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## mjdwyer23 (Mar 18, 2009)

Didn't CVV say he was faster than Cav in an interview after the final stage of the tour last year?

Edit: it was Farrar.


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## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

Seriously, if you cut out Dave Z they really don't have anyone that you can guarantee any sort of consistency from. Yeah they have people that can top 10, top 5, or even win. But honestly now, we all know its a gamble who that person is going to be. Hey CVV is our guy....wait wiggins is our guy......wait, no, CVV has been our guy all along. Until they have consistency, they should really focus on themselves and their tactics rather then others.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

CabDoctor said:


> Seriously, if you cut out Dave Z they really don't have anyone that you can guarantee any sort of consistency from. Yeah they have people that can top 10, top 5, or even win. But honestly now, we all know its a gamble who that person is going to be. Hey CVV is our guy....wait wiggins is our guy......wait, no, CVV has been our guy all along. Until they have consistency, they should really focus on themselves and their tactics rather then others.


what are you talking about? They have the team that is consistently 2nd in team time trials. Farrar is consistently second to Cavendish. They have a few 2nd time trialists and unsusccessful breakaway attempt riders, and may even have a few GC specialists good for 4th, or 5th in a grand tour - just outside the podium. If this is not consistency, I don't know what is.  [sarcasm]


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## stig (Sep 13, 2005)

JV is just creating a little havoc 'cause he has got no serious GC contendors until Dan Martin or Jack Bobridge mature. He has got nothing to lose!


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

mohair_chair said:


> You're going to France to drink Italian wine?



Oui. C'est vrais. 

(Ok Ok, maybe watch a little bike race too)


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

Theres a mini-lemond?


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## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

bigmig19 said:


> Theres a mini-lemond?


Yeah Vaughters


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

JV has since clarified his story:


> "A more correct way to say what I was trying to get across is that Astana was riding a defensive game on the mountain top finishes in the Tour," he explained. "They were upset with Alberto (Contador) in the Pyrenees for attacking solo. They had Kloden ride tempo for Lance on Verbier. Then on Ventoux Alberto was visibly at ease and chatting with Lance in the last kms."


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

moonmoth said:


> JV has since clarified his story:


if there ever was a back-pedaling Grand Tour, Vaughters might have a chance at finishing it!


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## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

No, that lame attempt at back-pedaling would be a DNF. I mean seriously, how do you clean up a remark like "were soft-pedalling a bit to not embarrass." Not really possible. He should have just said "Yeah I said it and l'lI say it again." And then popped his argyle collar. At least then we could give him cool points.


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## Sasquatch (Feb 3, 2004)

JV should've manned up and stuck to his statement.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

55x11 said:


> if there ever was a back-pedaling Grand Tour, Vaughters might have a chance at finishing it!


Podium finish for sure. . .


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## twiggy (Mar 23, 2004)

CabDoctor said:


> But honestly now, we all know its a gamble who that person is going to be. Hey CVV is our guy....wait wiggins is our guy......wait, no, CVV has been our guy all along. Until they have consistency, they should really focus on themselves and their tactics rather then others.



I agree with a lot of what has been said here, but lets not forget a certain terrible crash by VdV in last year's Giro!.... Of course that dropped him down a few levels before the TdF... Didn't he fracture a vertebrae and crack a few ribs? I seem to recall them saying he was off the bike for like 4+ weeks after that!


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