# Vitus 979: Chain-stay spreading okay?



## Big-foot (Dec 14, 2002)

Hola Retroids,

I recently scored the Vitus 979 that I wanted oh-so-much back in '85. It's even the blue that I wanted! I have a fresh 9-speed-era Ultegra group to build it, but am concerned about jamming a 130mm 9-speed hub into a frame spaced for 126mm. If it were steel I wouldn't sweat it, but I've heard 20-something years of stories about how these Viti can be a bit fragile.

Valid concern, or am I worried about nothing. 

Merci and stuff.


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## mikeyc38 (Sep 8, 2011)

FWIW My 20 year old 979 is solid as when I bought it. But then again I haven't tried to stuff if with a 130mm hub. 

de rien and stuff.


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## MerlinDS (May 21, 2004)

Do not do it, 126 only


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## Tucson_2011 (Nov 10, 2011)

*130mm might be too far*



Big-foot said:


> Hola Retroids,
> 
> I recently scored the Vitus 979 that I wanted oh-so-much back in '85. It's even the blue that I wanted! I have a fresh 9-speed-era Ultegra group to build it, but am concerned about jamming a 130mm 9-speed hub into a frame spaced for 126mm. If it were steel I wouldn't sweat it, but I've heard 20-something years of stories about how these Viti can be a bit fragile.
> 
> ...


Did you measure the 126mm yourself? It could be 124-5mm. Are the dropouts steel or are they aluminum as well? To go from 126 to 130 I might seriously look at cutting down the steel axle ends, find narrower nuts, but try to reduce the width from the side opposite of the gears to keep enough gap for your chain to clear the chainstay and mind the chainline! Or if you have steel dropouts, maybe take a little metal off of them too just to get 3-4mm total off the spread. If you can't get the space for a resized <130mm hub, don't cold set spread it, don't just jam it in there, your concern for old fragile aluminum is valid in my opinion 

PIC attached, from Sheldon Browns page at Bicycle Frame/Hub Spacing


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

I've done it with three 979 frames......These frames were never known for being stiff...The rear spreads easier than steel

If you are hesitant, look for the first generation Dura Ace 8 speed hub...The axle cones edges are beveled and it only spreads to 128 but works with 8,9 or 10 speed cassettes


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## Big-foot (Dec 14, 2002)

I'm now thinking of using some Superbe Pro 7 speed stuff (index era). I think that's period correct. What year did the SP index stuff like Phil Anderson used come out?


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

You could find a 126mm 7sp hub (or a wheel built on one) and use 8 of 9 on 7. See Shimano Cassettes & Freehubs (scroll down to get to '8 of 9 on 7').

That's what I did when I put a more modern gear train on my Vitus.


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## Heinz Heizer (Aug 17, 2011)

I think there are different 979 frames, depending on the age.

When you you over- spread an old MK I, that aluminium piece (the one where the rear break is fixed on) may loose its connection. It´s only glued in place.


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

I've seen several over the years with modern drive trains fitted in. I have 7700 but Ive not felt as comfortable potentially stressing the frame bonds and brake bridge by going to 130 or there about. I get into mental debates with myself over the added gearing but most my rides I'm in the same 3-4 cogs that 6spd is still sufficient. 

Like some of the prior posts, I had looked at having some machine shop buddies machine the nuts and or the end caps on more recent wheel sets down from 130 to 128mm spacing. I like how it still is basically a period correct bike and fairly unique on the trails here.


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## Big-foot (Dec 14, 2002)

*Built and rolling.*

I like it!

I stayed retro after all. Suntour Superbe Pro indexed shifters drive a Superbe Pro rear derailleur and a Shimano 600 front derailleur (late 80's I think...the model that pivots forward and back as well as side to side....works great!)

The wheels are NOS Zeus hubs laced to Mavic MA40 rims. A Suntour New Winner freewheel graces the back wheel.

The frame came with a Stronglight headset and a American Classic seat-post.

Crankset is a Shimano Dura-Ace with 52t Shimano ring and a 38t Sugino.

I went with non-period-correct Tektro dual-pivot brakes. They really don't look too out of place and I appreciate having real stoppers. Shimano levers handle the cable pulling duties.

Saddle is a late 90's era SDG, Kevlar cover and ti rails. Again, not period correct but it looks good.

I've put a few rides in and really like it. Yeah, if I really power it flexes a bit, but I'm more of a spinner any way.

This pic was a guickie with the point and shoot. I'll post some real Nikonian shots soon.


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## moonstation2000 (Sep 5, 2008)

Nice bike! Looks a lot like mine, same color frameset. I stayed with the same original frame spacing too, went to a wider spaced cassette and got some Microshift brifters. 

I don't mind the lack of gears as compared to a newer drivetrain, but I really do like having the brifters over the downtube friction shifters.


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

Happy to see another 979 frame in use.  This is still an enjoyable ride for me.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I don't care what anyone says, do not spread those stays, aluminium does not do well once it's bent, sure it's easier then steel, but the chance for failure will increase a 1000 percent. Also the weak points on a Vitus frame is at the bottom bracket where the stays are bonded to it, spreading the stays will stress out bond and lugs going into the BB and cause failure. The other area is the dropouts, some places will attempt to cold set the dropouts after spreading the stays in order to make them parallel again and the frame could snap in that process or snap after the wheel is reinstalled and your riding.

Keep in mind something, take a paper clip and bend it back and forth a bunch of times and see how many time you can bend it, then take a piece of aluminum like the pop top on can of soda and bend it back and forth a bunch of times and see which one will last longer from the bending.


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

froze said:


> I don't care what anyone says, do not spread those stays, aluminium does not do well once it's bent, sure it's easier then steel, but the chance for failure will increase a 1000 percent. Also the weak points on a Vitus frame is at the bottom bracket where the stays are bonded to it, spreading the stays will stress out bond and lugs going into the BB and cause failure. The other area is the dropouts, some places will attempt to cold set the dropouts after spreading the stays in order to make them parallel again and the frame could snap in that process or snap after the wheel is reinstalled and your riding.QUOTE]
> 
> 
> +1. also, you have to worry about the brake bridge coming unglued if you try to spread the rear. I had a vitus 992 that had this problem. Although, despite its shortcomings ( violet color just like sean kelly's), I loved the bike.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I've known two people that owned those Vitus's, both on the extreme opposite ends of the spectrum. 

One person was a woman who only weighed about 115 and she loved that bike, bought it new back in the mid 80's, I know she had it for at least 10 years and rode the crap out of it, I don't know if she still has it because I haven't been in contact with her for at least 8 years.

The other person I knew was 6' 4" and weighed 240 pounds, he was pro body builder. He bought one in the mid 80's new and in about 6 months of use broke the frame at the BB, he took it back to the bike shop and they replaced it under warranty, about 6 months on the new it too broke at same place, shop replaced it again. The last time he had it replaced he bought a Klien in the midst of the 2nd and 3rd one so when he got the 3rd Vitus he hung up in the rafters of his garage never seeing pavement where it sits to this day in brand new condition except for dust. I would have bought the darn thing but it didn't fit me.

By the way that guy ended up breaking the Klien after about 2 or 3 years so he bought a Cannondale which he broke a couple of those too! The guy would be hammering up some steep mountain climb and the frames would eventually snap. He now rides a Rivendell he's been touring on for the last 10 or so years and it's never had an issue. He personally told Grant his problems with other bikes and his size and strength issues so Grant over built the bike to take him and additional touring luggage weight.


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## src1750 (May 7, 2012)

Big-foot, et-al,,,
I have (4) Viti; (1) bought new in '84 & (3) bought as framesets from e-bay. Two of the e-bay frames required having the rear dropouts spread to 130mm. My local wrench did it although he cringed (sp) each time I would ask. Being a bonded frame there is a risk when this is done but I took the chance each time. Now I am ready to have my "old faithful" altered to accept a 130 wheel.
For anyone wanting to do this I would want you to ask yourself is it worth it to you to "take the risk"? I have been fortunate in this regard. YOu need to guage the confidence of your local wrench to successfully do this. It is doable... qaplach!


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

src1750 said:


> Big-foot, et-al,,,
> I have (4) Viti; (1) bought new in '84 & (3) bought as framesets from e-bay. Two of the e-bay frames required having the rear dropouts spread to 130mm. My local wrench did it although he cringed (sp) each time I would ask. Being a bonded frame there is a risk when this is done but I took the chance each time. Now I am ready to have my "old faithful" altered to accept a 130 wheel.
> For anyone wanting to do this I would want you to ask yourself is it worth it to you to "take the risk"? I have been fortunate in this regard. YOu need to guage the confidence of your local wrench to successfully do this. It is doable... qaplach!


Are you willing to back up your remarks with a full frame replacement should someone follow your advice? I didn't think so.


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## hawker12 (Oct 19, 2003)

I'm certainly no expert in these areas but I too have a 979. It's a 48cm frame and I weigh 130lbs.
I checked with a lot of people as well and at the time (about a year ago) I didn't find anyone who had any concerns. So, I fitted a 130mm wheel and haven't had any problems at all. I've removed the wheel several times and put it back on and then checked the brake bridge, seat and chain stays and don't see any cracking or loosening. We're only talking about moving the stays 2mm per side, which is very minimal and this doesn't involve any cold setting at all...just a tiny bit of stretching.

Maybe if you are a Clydesdale you need to have more concern, so I'm not recommending it, just telling you of what I've experienced.


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

I went through this mental debate as well. In the end the decision sided to find 6spd/126mm parts to keep it going. For years I've seen mention but nothing documented on the brake bridge or BB stays. I'm not willing to take that chance with mine to find out first hand.


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## mj3200 (Apr 18, 2008)

I have had steel cold set from 126mm to 130mm. Can't the same be done with aluminium?


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Kuma601 said:


> I went through this mental debate as well. In the end the decision sided to find 6spd/126mm parts to keep it going. For years I've seen mention but nothing documented on the brake bridge or BB stays. I'm not willing to take that chance with mine to find out first hand.


You could have put a 7 speed back there instead of a 6 if you wanted if it would work with just a minor redishing of the rear wheel, most 80's era bikes redishing works fine.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

mj3200 said:


> I have had steel cold set from 126mm to 130mm. Can't the same be done with aluminium?



Aluminium does not like to be bent, steel doesn't care. Al frame if bent can break, not will break, can break. There have been reports of people trying to get the stays of Vitus bikes to spread to 130mm and they broke stuff, mostly brake bridges snapped, some the bonded lugs became unbonded, either way the frame is junk at that point. There is a place though that can rebond Vitus frames, which isn't all that complicated to do. It would seem to me that a bonded joint would hold up better then a welded joint to a small 4mm amount of bending, which is probably why the bridges break most of the time because their not bonded.

I've only converted one of my 80's era road bikes to a 7 speed, but this particular frame didn't needed to be cold set, they just redished the rear wheel and used a 1mm (or less) thick washer on the freewheel side.


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## mj3200 (Apr 18, 2008)

We have sections of aluminium bent to fairly tight radii all the time at work. I am sure if the stays were clamped at the current fixed points - the brake bridge and bottom bracket - thereby not stressing the member in those areas but in the protruding section the re-setting would be successful, unless the metal has become weakened.

I would plunge in.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

I'm still warning against this. 

The vitus frame has three points where it can fail. 

1.) At the bottom bracket they are glued to a lug with superglue. The stress from bending its stays out may cause the frame to fail there. It can come unglued at the bottom bracket. 

2.) The brake bridge. a weak spot that is just welded and when the stays are spread the welds can't hold and snap. A competent spreader could place a block rig on the outside of the both stays were the bridge is at so when force is apply to spread the stays cant put force on the bridge an thus it won't effect the bridge. Then a frame alignment shop will ensure the ends are parallel with Campagnolo "H" tools. 

3.) The dropouts are parallel to each other. When you spread the stays, the dropouts cease to be parallel and you need to bend them in a little to make them parallel to each other. You can do this before you put 130 mm axle. This is called cold setting. and the frame may snap when you do this. You can do it every time when you install your wheel and it can snap anytime while riding. If you don't cold set a frame, you will be riding it under constant tension from the quick release pressing against the dropouts while the hub axle forces the seatstays to spread. When you force the dropouts off parallel, with a 130mm wheel, and then force them parallel with a skewer, you run the risk of breaking the glued joint of the dropout to the seatstay. 

Again the best option is to simply put a 7 speed freewheel on and redish the rear wheel, afterwards maybe a washer or 1mm or less will be required. 7 speeds is plenty of gears another gear isn't going to matter; keep in mind the smallest gear and the largest gear of a 7 or 8 speed cluster is the same ratio, all your gaining is a slightly more gear range to choose from in between the first and last gears; in other words the 1st gear is the same ratio in a 7 or 8 speed cluster, and the last gear is the same ratio in a 7 or 8 speed cluster. I hope I explained that. 

So it comes down to how much are you willing to risk your Vitus frame to unrepairable damage? If the bike doesn't mean much too you and the idea of possibly breaking the frame is not a big deal then spread away and let not fear impede you; but if you like to keep the frame and the thought that there's a possibility the frame could be destroyed then let your common sense guide you.


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

I'm with froze on this. The age of these and with numerous miles, this is a big unknown risk to spread them.


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