# Custom steel or off-the-shelf Ti/Fe/other material



## Chris_T (May 7, 2007)

*Custom steel or off-the-shelf Ti/Fe/other - Ride report*

Dear Road Bike Forum:

I am a graduate of a small, northeast university and I never thought this would happen to me. I've found myself in a position to choose between beautiful options that most men my age, married-ness, and house-poorness would never have. I am a lucky man. And I need your help deciding. Or at least the discussion of your help would be entertaining, I think 

Due to a recent windfall of a once of a lifetime nature (company got acquired) I have $2K (max) to spend on a nice touring frame. I'm currently riding a Fuji Cross that I've adapted over time with steel fork, triple cranks, Velocity Synergy wheels, and fat (35c) tires. All the parts currently on the bike are good and capable of gracing a nice new frame.

I do some commuting (20 miles each way) and do one or two charity rides/centuries each year. I ride on any road including dirt and occasional single-track. I want something comfy for long rides, built to last, and that can handle the odd jaunt on to rougher terrain and large tires.

I like the look of Rivendells and ANT's but don't want something built like a tank. I've talked to the Geekhouse guys (they're local to me in Greater Boston) and they seem cool and interested in building something like I'm interested in ("country bike" I guess). 

So, how about some other suggestions? I like the idea of a custom bike but getting something rust-proof that will do what I want is appealing too.

Thanks in advance!


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

For touring I like steel.

Actually for any sort of riding I like steel.

A custom Gunnar Grand Tour (a division of Waterford) frame and fork will cost about $1600.

Good stuff.


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## PdxMark (Feb 3, 2004)

Steel makes for a nice-riding, durable, versatile bike. So long as you don't store it outside in the rain for 10 years or so, rust won't be an issue. The combined weight of you and your steel bike riding up hills might be 2% more than if you had a less durable, less versatile carbon bike. In a race that might matter, for your (my) riding, not really at all...

MB1 knows his stuff...


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

I'll second the Waterford or Gunnar frames.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

You don't need to spend 2K for a touring bike, the Kona Sutra cost around $1,300 and has all the functions, features and quality of bikes costing 2k! That leaves you money for accessories to deck out the bike anyway you see fit. See: KONAWORLD This bike is rated for heavy touring meaning you can have loaded panniers front and rear plus fenders. That Kona has been voted the best touring bike for the money by Adventure Cyclist...that's the number one touring resource in the USA.

The other option is here: Shimano Ultegra | Motobecane Titanium Century Road Bikes This is a century bike designed for medium weight touring, meaning you can't put much weight on the front just a loaded handlebar bag and fenders due to the carbon fiber fork. But it would be a great light weight dual purpose bike.

By the way, your not going to get a custom bike for 2k. Some of these suggestions like Waterford your only going to get the frame and fork for 2k not a complete bike, same with Rivendell brands, the prices quoted on the Rivendell site are for just the frame and fork. The Gunnar Grand tour custom is $1300 for the frame plus $275 for the fork, that's $1,575 for the frame and fork, your not going to be able to get wheels and components plus racks for another $425! The Gunnar is a nice bike, but it will cost more then your limit.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

froze said:


> ....By the way, your not going to get a custom bike for 2k. Some of these suggestions like Waterford your only going to get the frame and fork for 2k not a complete bike, same with Rivendell brands, the prices quoted on the Rivendell site are for just the frame and fork. The Gunnar Grand tour custom is $1300 for the frame plus $275 for the fork, that's $1,575 for the frame and fork, your not going to be able to get wheels and components plus racks for another $425! The Gunnar is a nice bike, but it will cost more then your limit.


You need to read the OP again. The question was "Frame" for $2K not complete bike.


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

Also take a look at Co-Motion Cycles. Their Americano is a topnotch touring frame and would cost right about your budgeted amount. They are nice looking bikes as well and come in a range of colors. They also make an expedition style touring frame as well as sport touring.

http://www.co-motion.com/index.php/singles/americano

On the budget end, I really like the Soma Saga. You could do an entire build for $2k with a Saga frame.

I have a Waterford RST-22 that is set up more as a sport-tourer but has canti brakes and room for large tires. I bought mine used for a bargain price and a new one similarly built would cost more than $3500. It is the nicest bike I have ever ridden and is incredibly versatile, but I could never afford one new. That said, I would not hesitate buying a Gunnar after my experiences with the Waterford. The Gunnar Sport is basically the same bike with TIG welding rather than lugs. If I were in the market for a new bike, that would probably be my top choice.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

tarwheel2 said:


> ...I have a Waterford RST-22 that is set up more as a sport-tourer but has canti brakes and room for large tires. I bought mine used for a bargain price and a new one similarly built would cost more than $3500. It is the nicest bike I have ever ridden and is incredibly versatile, but I could never afford one new. That said, I would not hesitate buying a Gunnar after my experiences with the Waterford. The Gunnar Sport is basically the same bike with TIG welding rather than lugs. If I were in the market for a new bike, that would probably be my top choice.


That is one good looking bike and if I recall correctly we ride the same size frame. :idea:

Better lock your garage! :yikes:


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## Chris_T (May 7, 2007)

Nice suggestions guys. Beautiful Waterford pic,too. 

To clarify I am not looking for beefy loaded touring, just a frame with good geometry for distance and comfort. 

And yes, just a frame.


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## bigrider (Jun 27, 2002)

If it was between a Gunnar and a Riv, there is no doubt in my mind the Gunnar is the way to go.

There are some custom builders out there that can get you what you want for 2k or less. I paid around 1k for a custom ss lugged frame and fork. 

Any decent sport tourer frame will be built so you can put panniers and wider tires on it, but is not built with gas pipe tubing. It will be comfortable, feel good, and not be an anchor.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

MB1 said:


> You need to read the OP again. The question was "Frame" for $2K not complete bike.


Yup, My mistake, I missed that part. Sorry


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## Chris_T (May 7, 2007)

froze said:


> Yup, My mistake, I missed that part. Sorry


Besides that, was pretty sound advice.


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## wncbiker (Feb 18, 2005)

+1 on a Gunnar!


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Here is an interesting article about touring bikes and what the different materials used to build these bikes act like; see: http://www.adventurecycling.org/resources/201104_PerfectTouringBike_Lord.pdf

The Kona uses Dedacciai butted steel frameset with Ritchey's sliding dropouts (so you can switch easily from geared to fix) instead of typical Chinese generic 4020 steel tubing, not that 520 is bad, and the Ritchey dropouts are better then what's found on the Chinese made bikes.

Keep in mind, if you go the complete bike route for 2k instead of just the frame and fork, manufactures that include racks are not really nice racks, their not poor racks but racks made for lessor weight then high quality racks like Tubus Logo racks that have 88 pound limit or the Topeak Super Tourist rack which have a 55 pound limit, I bought the Tubus just to be safe even though I knew I would never put more then 50 pounds on it; I like things over engineered, but also the stouter rack prevents the weight in the panniers from shifting the rack slightly making the bike ride sort of squirmy feeling in the rear. But these things can be upgraded later as needed. This site here usually has the best prices on touring racks and bags but check the internet to make sure you get the best prices; see: http://www.thetouringstore.com/index.htm

Also be aware that true touring bikes are heavier then normal bikes, this is because the frames and forks are beefed up to support the additional luggage weight while bouncing down a road.

There's also another bike I forgot to mention that gets rave reviews, the Dawes Super Galaxy that will cost about $1958 complete, and this bike uses Reynolds 631 steel.. See: http://www.dawescycles.com/p-605-super-galaxy.aspx The bike equipped on that web site is better spec'd then the Evans here in America.

Koga (old Miyata brand) Randonneur is another great bike using Miyata steel tubing which is a fantastic frame I own two Miyata road bikes and it's a better frame then any of my Reynolds or Columbus steel bikes; it features lugged steel construction if you like the classic look, problem is finding a dealer! See: http://www.kogausa.com/Randonneurspecs.htm

I have two touring bikes, a 85 Schwinn Le Tour Luxe with Tenax (Columbus) tubing, and a 07 Mercian Vincitore Special with Reynolds 725; the Schwinn I got used but in mint condition and is my go to touring bike only because the Mercian looks too nice to beat up touring! Mercian's are great bikes too, and their custom built, but be expected to pay over $3500; see: http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/complete-bikes/52/vincitore-vincitore-special-complete-bikes


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## singlespeedbuss (Aug 6, 2009)

http://www.raleighusa.com/bikes/raleighframesets/international-frameset-12/

Check out this frame. High marks from Bicycling magazine last year.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Using Reynolds 853 on a touring bike is not a good idea. While it is very strong it is also brittle something you don't want touring, and the frame has a stiffer more jarring ride characteristics to it vs 725 or 631; and 853 being thinner makes it subject to denting which is something that could readily happen on a touring bike. Mercian even recommended 725 over the 853 due to the fact I wanted a comfortable riding touring bike that would handle loaded touring.


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## Kurious Oranj (Oct 11, 2009)

*Check out Boulder Bicycle*

After reading a glowing review of the Boulder Bicycle Rando frame in Bicycle Quarterly, I decided to order one for me to replace my Teesdale (which will be in a new role as my bike abroad). It sounds like a frame you might want to look at. I have not received my frame yet but my experience so far with the folks at Boulder Bicycles, i.e. Mike Kone, is superb.


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## robwh9 (Sep 2, 2004)

*Soma Stanyan*

I just did a 5 day, 350 mile tour on my Soma Stanyan. I built it up with Ultegra triple. It worked well, but I was carrying only 30 pounds of gear. Tange Prestige steel with eyelets for racks and fenders. It'll be a good randonneuring bike. Only $700 or so for frame and fork.

Stanyan Frame Set | SOMA Fabrications

Also this

Soma San Marcos Frame/Fork Set


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## Chris_T (May 7, 2007)

Yeah, Stanyan and Double cross have caught my eye. Want a little more clearance for tires and would need new brakes if I did go the Stanyan route though. Pretty frame and I would not be going any heavier than you did.


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## redvespablur (Aug 23, 2011)

You can get a Marinoni Turismo frameset custom and with money left over for accessories. Columbus Zona Tubing. Very good value.


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## Eiron (Sep 9, 2006)

So did you make a decision? 

For my custom I decided to have a lugged steel randonneuse built. I wanted something for both commuting now, & (hopefully) touring later. My commute (at the time I ordered this) was nearly identical to yours at 21 mi each way. And I had almost identical requirements to yours as well:


> I want something comfy for long rides, built to last, and that can handle the odd jaunt on to rougher terrain and large tires.


Since I was commuting, I also wanted it to ride fast, be able to take fenders & racks, & handle well with a moderate load. A randonneuse's light weight & strong build seemed to fit the bill perfectly for me.

For builders, I'd suggest going with Mark Nobilette. Mark is the guy who builds the fully custom Rivendells *and* the super-custom Rene Herse randonneur bikes. I think he's been building for nearly 40 yrs, so if you want a randonneuse or a full touring style (or something else), he's definitely been around long enough to incorporate what you want in a bike. I think his pricing for a lugged steel frame is around $1,600 to $1,800. Mine had a lot of extras (custom lug work, extra braze-ons, & custom paint) that brought the price up to $2,500 for frame & fork.


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## Chris_T (May 7, 2007)

*And now, finally, an answer*

After some distractions (getting settled into new house, into new company) I finally made my decision and arrived at the Soma Stanyan. Very close geometry-wise to my old Fuji Cross but a much smoother ride. I just got back from the shakedown cruise. Thanks to Aaron and Brian at JRA Cycles for a nice build.

All of the parts except seat post and brakes came over from the Fuji. I'm thinking a silver stem is in my future.

Thanks for all the good ideas!


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## Steve B. (Jun 26, 2004)

Ahhhhh good choice. 

Love those chrome lugs. I have a Smoothie. One of the nicest bikes I've owned, Soma makes good stuff.

Best of luck and lot's of enjoyable miles on your new steed and a thanks for the update.

SB


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## Chris_T (May 7, 2007)

*Ride report*

OK, so now I've had a chance to get a good couple of rides on this (18 and 24 over my birthday weekend, adding up to my age 

I love how the bike came out with my old cross parts (except new seatpost and brakes)

My old 35mm tires left not enough room in the rear triangle but would have been fine up front. I'm currently running Conti Gatorskins in the 25mm. They ride smoother than on my old aluminum frame but am thinking of going a little wider as we get into fall.

The Stanyan measured up within millimeters of my old bike but overall the feel is a little more relaxed. Still plenty agile but comfortable and very stable on the descents - I'm going faster but it doesn't feel that way. And there's plenty of hills near me.

The road at my new house is popular with cyclists so I picked some marks and started following them. The mark I followed looks like a Cents symbol but haven't been able to follow the whole route....yet.


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## PatrickDohogne (Nov 22, 2012)

*Soma Stanyan*

Thanks for this post...I am planning on purchasing a Soma Stanyan also, replacing my alum Trek 1000C. 

I'll get the 58 or 60 size frame.

My main question: Will fenders fit with 32 wide tires? 

thx--Patrick


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## EliBroccoli (Jul 1, 2011)

Custom steel!


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## Steve B. (Jun 26, 2004)

The Soma site is non-functional currently but I believe the frame is similar to the Smoothie in design, allowing a 28mm with fenders.

If you need a 32 plus fenders, the Smoothie ES is the choice.


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## MagClyde_II (Nov 27, 2012)

Chris_T said:


> After some distractions (getting settled into new house, into new company) I finally made my decision and arrived at the Soma Stanyan. Very close geometry-wise to my old Fuji Cross but a much smoother ride. I just got back from the shakedown cruise. Thanks to Aaron and Brian at JRA Cycles for a nice build.
> 
> All of the parts except seat post and brakes came over from the Fuji. I'm thinking a silver stem is in my future.
> 
> ...



Very nice bike!


Do you know the weight of the frame?


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## Chris_T (May 7, 2007)

Weight - didn't measure it myself but I think it comes in right at the 4.1 pound mark mentioned on somfab.com My complete bike weight is a respectable 21.8 pounds.

Fenders - They say 28 with fenders but might be able to fit 30 under there (if you can find it). I'll be mounting fenders today and will try to post a pic of the clearance around my Gatorskin 28's


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Kurious Oranj said:


> After reading a glowing review of the Boulder Bicycle Rando frame in Bicycle Quarterly, I decided to order one for me to replace my Teesdale (which will be in a new role as my bike abroad). It sounds like a frame you might want to look at. I have not received my frame yet but my experience so far with the folks at Boulder Bicycles, i.e. Mike Kone, is superb.


Have you gotten your Boulder Bicycle yet? If you did have you posted any photos?

I've been reading "Bicycle Quarterly" and Randonneur bikes have really caught my interest. Been reading back issues and their blog to supplement my new subscription.

How do you like it? 
I mighta asked, but any pics?


Off The Beaten Path | News from Bicycle Quarterly and Compass Bicycles


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## Chris_T (May 7, 2007)

*Fender sizing*

Here are pix with the fenders on. These are Planet Bike Cascadia hybrid fenders and 28mm Conti Gatorskins.


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## evs (Feb 18, 2004)

Nice pics and nice ride. That looks like Wachusett Mt. If so you're in my neck of the woods.  Nice fall pics. Congrats on the new ride.


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## Chris_T (May 7, 2007)

@evs - thanks and yeah that's Wachusett - I'm near the Bolton/Hudson line


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## Chris_T (May 7, 2007)

Making the thread rise again! Updated pic with new Nitto Noodle bars, VO stem, Ultegra shifters, and Cinelli tape.


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## temoore (Mar 9, 2004)

Gunnar Sport is really nice. Just built a commuter for myself. They are handcrafted and built to order, either stock sizing or custom. If you want to spend more, the Waterford (parent company) frames are nice. Here is my Sport. It was about $1,000 for the frame (stock size) and $125 for the custom color (Orange Glow over Silver) and $375 for the Waterford fork, which is supposed to be a better ride than the stock one. 
View attachment 287540


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