# My new road bike. What to add?



## mantrain (Jul 10, 2016)

Hello, my name is Nicholas, and I am very new to road cycling. I have for many years been into mountain biking -- very avid in the sport, and recently I visited a newly opened LBS and made this purchase for $850. It was rather over the budget of what I wanted to spend on my first road bike, but the owner convinced me that this bike is a "steal" at this price and he was selling it to me at a loss so that he can start to grow his business etc. So I have committed myself and put half the money down on this bike and have agreed to pay the rest off within the week. The owner is not able to tell me the year the bike was made, which I made a big stink with him about. He said he didn't know for sure, that he got some inventory from a dentist that never used the bikes much. He made a point that the handlebars alone are $450 retail. 
Well to be honest when I test drove the bike I fell in love with it. To me it rides like a dream -- seamless and responsive. Above all, to me it seems very fast, with sharp acceleration (especially compared to the 29" MTB I ride). 
Anyways, I am not sure where I can go from here in terms of any upgrades, like a fresh wheel-set, or how I might want to improve on the set-up. I see some wheel sets that really are beautiful these days, but I am not sure if I can get something like that (not even sure how to refer to it). Not even sure what tubes to order online and believe it or not have been riding w/out spare tubes.

Thanks for the info to a road-bike newbie.


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## fast ferd (Jan 30, 2009)

You'll find many Trek experts on here. I rode something similar to that on a Maui vacation once, renting it from a bike shop. I think it was early 2000's. Very nice riding bike, indeed.

Stuff I'd do:
1. Get two real water bottles.
2. Ditch the saddlebag...or at least get a tiny one.
3. Lower the stack height spacers to drop the stem by about one inch.
4. Turn the bars downward slightly.
5. Swap the pedals out for a clipless system when you can afford it.


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## mantrain (Jul 10, 2016)

fast ferd said:


> You'll find many Trek experts on here. I rode something similar to that on a Maui vacation once, renting it from a bike shop. I think it was early 2000's. Very nice riding bike, indeed.
> 
> Stuff I'd do:
> 1. Get two real water bottles.
> ...



Coincidentaly I am going to Maui next week! Would love to know the name of an LBS to rent a bike from. Also Oahu. Thanks


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## Fajita Dave (Dec 1, 2015)

Already has Ultegra wheels so there is no need to upgrade those! I can't make out what the other components are in the photo. Since it has Ultegra wheels chances are the other components aren't cheap either.

If you can find someone to do a professional bike fitting that would be a great way to spend your money. If the handlebars really were $450 I'm going to assume they're carbon. Buy a torque wrench and carbon paste to make sure you don't crush any carbon bits if you make adjustments.

I see the fork is carbon. If the steer tube is also carbon make sure you move the compression plug if you lower stem on the steer tube. Clamping the stem down on a carbon steer tube without the compression plug in the right place can crush the steer tube.


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## jwalther (Jul 4, 2013)

Bike fit. Definitely bike fit.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

mantrain said:


> recently I visited a newly opened LBS and made this purchase for $850. It was rather over the budget of what I wanted to spend on my first road bike, but the owner convinced me that this bike is a "steal" at this price and he was selling it to me at a loss so that he can start to grow his business etc. So I have committed myself and put half the money down on this bike and have agreed to pay the rest off within the week.


I'd get my money back. Sounds like the LBS owner is ignorant or a fraud trying to rip you off.



> The owner is not able to tell me the year the bike was made, which I made a big stink with him about. He said he didn't know for sure, that he got some inventory from a dentist that never used the bikes much. He made a point that the handlebars alone are $450 retail.


It took me all of 5min to figure out the year and model. It's a 2004 Trek 5200. That's a 12yro bike! 
How does he friggin know it's a "steal" if he doesn't even know what it is? Maybe he stole it.

$450 handlebars? lmao.

2004 Trek 5200 - BikePedia
2004 Trek 5200 - New and Used Bike Value

It's only worth $550 in like new condition. And it's definitely not in like new condition. That fork is NOT original. The rear derailleur is NOT original. Wheels are NOT original. While they're nice wheels, it raises the question of why they were changed, the fork was changed, the derailleur was changed. Was it crashed?




> Anyways, I am not sure where I can go from here in terms of any upgrades, like a fresh wheel-set, or how I might want to improve on the set-up. I see some wheel sets that really are beautiful these days, but I am not sure if I can get something like that (not even sure how to refer to it).


Don't invest money into a 12yro bike that you've already paid 2x as much as you should have.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

tlg said:


> I'd get my money back. Sounds like the LBS owner is ignorant or a fraud trying to rip you off.


$850 for an old bike with a mish-mash of parts.

nice job...great way to build a reputation for a new shop.


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## ExChefinMA (May 9, 2012)

Mantrain, 

TLG is correct, get back to that shop and bring him the bike. That is not a new bike nor is it a steal at that price.

EEC


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## mantrain (Jul 10, 2016)

Thing is I really like the feel of the bike and as far as I can tell there are no hints of trauma. I only have paid half down I would prefer to bring him in some information and get some $ knocked off the price . 


HOw can we tell that it is not in "like new cond." ? Thanks!


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

Hi Mantrain, replied to your post in General... one safety feature although a little expensive that you may want to invest in is a Garmin Varia Rear Radar based on your concerns mentioned in other thread.

That said, it's true the bike is an older model. But at the same time, if you're stuck with it now and it's in fine working order, you'll get plenty of good riding out of it. Let people know the name of the shop so it can be avoided, though! That LBS may be full of BS.


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## mantrain (Jul 10, 2016)

How can I be sure of the year? Thank you


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

All I can read is troll.


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## mantrain (Jul 10, 2016)

Also how can I convince him this is not the 5200 model ?


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

Maybe, but his messages in the thread he started in General sub-forum seem to contain thought.


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## mantrain (Jul 10, 2016)

MMsRepBike said:


> All I can read is troll.


whatever.... I just want to know about this bike, Can someone help me out? this guy wants me to cough up the remainder $425. How can I have proof as to the value gven the "new handlebars" and ultram wheel-set? Are there any new pics I might add to this thread to help? thank you


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

mantrain said:


> Thing is I really like the feel of the bike and as far as I can tell there are no hints of trauma. I only have paid half down I would prefer to bring him in some information and get some $ knocked off the price .


Well if you want to base the price off emotion, that's your right. But you could easily "really like the feel" of a bike that's 10yrs newer and cheaper. 




> HOw can we tell that it is not in "like new cond." ? Thanks!


You can tell just by looking at it. "Like New" should look like a showroom floor bike. Not a single nick or scratch. It's almost impossible to have a 12yro bike in like new condition. 

As I previously told you, it's got* a bunch of parts that aren't original*. Handlebar tape is worn. Tires are really worn. Crank looks to have rub marks.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

any shop that would let a bike out the front door with the bars in such a jacked-up position is pretty lame...

I'd just ask for a total refund. the place is a joke.


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

Aside from the links already provided by others, just do google image search for:

2004 Trek OCLV


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

mantrain said:


> Also how can I convince him this is not the 5200 model ?


It's the 5200. Blue Pearl/Carbon color. You probably can't convince him because he's a fraud.

2004 5200 - Bike Archive - Trek Bicycle


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## mantrain (Jul 10, 2016)

I appreciate the answers. My motivation at this point is to get the price lowered down. I do not think he is a "fraud" so much, as he is an older gentleman whom retired from a major company and started a retirement business. I just dont think he knows all that much. I did press him for the year and he could never tell me.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

Firstly, please ignore the people who are suggesting to lower the stem and bars. They have never seen you on the bike, and have no business giving you fit advice. Get a bike fit to determine where your handlbars/hoods should be.

Secondly, I'd *really* like to know how the handlebars are worth $450 new. A new Enve carbon bar costs $100 less. If the guy at the shop knows it's worth $450 he'll be able to tell you what model it is and why they are worth that much.

If this new LBS model is based on selling bikes to people at inflated prices after convicing them he is taking a loss, I don't expect them to be around long. Scamming customers is not a good way to build a customer base. It's a good way to piss people off. It might work for a couple of months, but eventually he's going to run out of customers.


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## fast ferd (Jan 30, 2009)

mantrain said:


> Coincidentaly I am going to Maui next week! Would love to know the name of an LBS to rent a bike from. Also Oahu. Thanks


We stayed near Kaanapali Beach. Several shops nearby provide rentals, but I do not recall the name. It was located on the main road.

You gather, by now, that you overpaid for your Trek. Still a very nice-riding bike that will give you years of fun. See if maybe the shop will refund you a couple hundred - money you can use to buy shoes, pedals, and accessories.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

mantrain said:


> I appreciate the answers. My motivation at this point is to get the price lowered down. I do not think he is a "fraud" so much, as he is an older gentleman whom retired from a major company and started a retirement business. I just dont think he knows all that much. I did press him for the year and he could never tell me.


Right, he's not a fraud... just an old ignorant man.  

If he's not a fraud, why'd he tell you the handlebars are worth $450? How does he know that when he doesn't even know the year/model of the bike?
If he's not a fraud, how does he know the bike is "steal" at this price?


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## ExChefinMA (May 9, 2012)

mantrain said:


> I appreciate the answers. My motivation at this point is to get the price lowered down. I do not think he is a "fraud" so much, as he is an *older gentleman whom retired from a major company and started a retirement business*. I just dont think he knows all that much. I did press him for the year and he could never tell me.


The bolded part scares me more than anything else you've said. 

He's starting a business selling old bikes in questionable states claiming that they are "from a dentist who never used the bikes much", does that sound like a good business model? Please do yourself a favor, take the bike back, get your money back from the "gentleman" and go to a reputable bikeshop, where you can get fit properly and sold a less questionable bike.

At best, this bike should have been in the < $350 range: 2004 Trek 5200 - New and Used Bike Value

Best of luck to you.

EEC


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## ngl (Jan 22, 2002)

The earlier posts just told you the value of the bike and the [possible] issues with the bike and you don't seem to be taking their advice. As for the value of the handlebars why don't you take the information off them and do your own google search, or maybe check ebay? Same goes for the wheel-set. Why don't you take the bike to a another [reputable] bike shop and ask them the value and condition?


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## chudak (Jul 28, 2012)

Oxtox said:


> $850 for an old bike with a mish-mash of parts.
> 
> nice job...great way to build a reputation for a new shop.


I concur with all the others...he's taking you for a ride. Return it and find another shop.


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## chudak (Jul 28, 2012)

The other thing I notice...it looks like it has at least a 30 (or maybe 32) rear cassette but what appears to be a short cage ultegra rear derailleur, which I don't think is suited for use with that cassette.


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## mantrain (Jul 10, 2016)

ngl said:


> The earlier posts just told you the value of the bike and the [possible] issues with the bike and you don't seem to be taking their advice.


How is that so? you mean because I ask questions?


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## mantrain (Jul 10, 2016)

this one is being sold for more, but is not same color scheme. WTF

2004 Trek 5200 Road Bike Olcv 120 Carbon 62cm Frame Shimano Ultegra Race Lite Does not apply | eBay


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

Someone asking for $1600 does not make it worth $1600. How much it actually sells for is what determines it's value (basic economics).

You can use the ebay 'advanced' search function and search 'sold' listings. You can also search 'completed' listings to see bikes that were listed and didn't sell (and for how much). 

Just a quick gander at those results (I didn't look at details), i'd say he's asking a few hundred dollars too many.
trek 5200 oclv | eBay

It's possible, if he knows as little about this bike as it sounds, that HE got taken to the cleaners on it, and he's trying to recover some of his money. 

At this point, I'd try really hard to get out of that deal,or, if you really love the bike, negotiate it down by about half or so.


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## chudak (Jul 28, 2012)

mantrain said:


> this one is being sold for more, but is not same color scheme. WTF
> 
> 2004 Trek 5200 Road Bike Olcv 120 Carbon 62cm Frame Shimano Ultegra Race Lite Does not apply | eBay


I'm pretty sure a front triple was not standard on that bike...


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

mantrain said:


> this one is being sold for more, but is not same color scheme. WTF
> 
> 2004 Trek 5200 Road Bike Olcv 120 Carbon 62cm Frame Shimano Ultegra Race Lite Does not apply | eBay


So what? There's a sucker born every minute. Maybe someone would be foolish enough to pay that.

Just because something is listed on Ebay for a price doesn't make it worth the price. If you don't believe that, I have a pair of socks to sell you.


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## ngl (Jan 22, 2002)

mantrain said:


> How is that so? you mean because I ask questions?


No, because they already gave you the answers and their opinions and you're not listening.
Also, I asked you 2 questions, both which you side stepped.


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## ExChefinMA (May 9, 2012)

tlg said:


> So what? There's a sucker born every minute. Maybe someone would be foolish enough to pay that.
> 
> Just because something is listed on Ebay for a price doesn't make it worth the price. If you don't believe that, I have a pair of socks to sell you.


Sorry TLG, tried to rep you for this, but guess I did so recently.

Someone else will need to hit you with it.

EEC


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## pittcanna (Oct 2, 2014)

Dear lord 850 for a 2004 used trek.

He could of went to rei or performance and gotten something in 2015 for like 900.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

jetdog9 said:


> Hi Mantrain, replied to your post in General... one safety feature although a little expensive that you may want to invest in is a Garmin Varia Rear Radar based on your concerns mentioned in other thread.


Or get a mirror.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

JCavilia said:


> Or get a mirror.


Ah, so refreshingly "old school". :wink5:

OP, good advice from many here. If you love the bike, it fits your anatomy and intended purposes, go back to the LBS armed with the info from this thread and tactfully state that what you've paid is considered paid in full for the bike. If he agrees, get a receipt. If he doesn't, get a refund.

And, if you do keep the bike, get a standard fitting from a reputable shop.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

I agree - tell the guy you have been able to identify some parts, incl frame, on the internet, and to get a price on them, and that, overall, you will politely propose that the $450 paid already is paid-in-full.

Otherwise, you want to return the bike.

If this was sold as like-new / used, then you do not have much of a case for frank lying. But he has priced this pretty high, and you can put your story out there enough to make him hurt economically more than $450 worth.

If those offers are not accepted by him, then you will have to figure out an acceptable plan to make him regret not playing along with you. There are plenty of ways to make him consider your decent offer.

One is to fax a complaint in to whatever state agency, then show him a copy of that receipt thingie from the fax machine.

After that, enjoy the bike.


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## Red90 (Apr 2, 2013)

I would agree with the other posters that you probably paid a bit too much for the bike. Whether or not the LBS was intentionally trying to scam you or it was just ignorance, that's to be debated.

I think that with the information you have at hand, you should go back and re-negotiated based upon the misrepresentation of the information. If you truely cannot get a refund or discount. Just enjoy the bike. If it fits you, you feel good in it, you got what you originally paid for. I think we have all at one time or another paid too much for something, especially when we are not experts in that particular hobby or subject. Live and learn, next time you will pay fair market price for your N+1.

As to your original question of what else you need. Bike Fit, helmet, good tire pump with pressure gauge, tubes, tire levers, multi-tool, front and rear lights, padded shorts and eye protection.


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## HyperCycle (Sep 5, 2012)

You can buy a new Trek 1.1 at that price and have some cash leftover for accessories.


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## mantrain (Jul 10, 2016)

pittcanna said:


> Dear lord 850 for a 2004 used trek.
> 
> He could of went to rei or performance and gotten something in 2015 for like 900.


would it be all carbon fiber frame? I would love to pay $900 for all carbon fiber frame. I cannot find one.

NGL, I am sorry, which questions have I side-stepped? I will look over your original post here.


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## mantrain (Jul 10, 2016)

ngl said:


> The earlier posts just told you the value of the bike and the [possible] issues with the bike and you don't seem to be taking their advice. As for the value of the handlebars why don't you take the information off them and do your own google search, or maybe check ebay? Same goes for the wheel-set. Why don't you take the bike to a another [reputable] bike shop and ask them the value and condition?


Yes, I have to take all the tape off to figure out the handlebars. I have checked e-bay. The prices are quite varied.

Here is another listing from ebay for $900.

Trek 5500 Oclv | eBay

edit: here is another on ebay for more $ but not sure the year. Trying to find out the year of this one:

Trek 5500 Oclv 120 58cm Dura Ace Thompson Bontr Cane Creek Race x Lite Bicycle | eBay


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## chudak (Jul 28, 2012)

I have a friend who just did the same thing and bought a used bike from "a friend"...it's an old Merlin Ti bike with 8 speed dura ace. Yeah, it's Ti, yeah it's dura ace...it's also almost 20 years old. He could have spent the same $1500 or slightly more on a brand new CF bike with 11 speed 105 and had a warranty and support from the shop.

He really liked the bike and really wanted to buy it. I told him "look, I think you are paying too much for this bike, I think it's too big for you, I think you could get a much better and newer bike for the same amount of money...but it's your money and your decision so if you want that bike then that's all I'm going to say about it and leave it at that."

I think at this point the OP is just trying to find justification for keeping the bike...and no one will convince him otherwise. He's gotten a lot of good information that he seems heavily inclined to ignore or refute. That's fine, it's his money and he doesn't really want to hear the feedback that he might have gotten screwed, it might not be the best deal for him or anything else.

Best of luck and if you keep it I hope you enjoy riding it...


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## mantrain (Jul 10, 2016)

a close up of the handlebars. Again I would have to take off all the taping to get more info. can anyone tell by this pic the model or anything? thanks so much! sorry for all the newbie questions.


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## ExChefinMA (May 9, 2012)

mantrain said:


> Yes, I have to take all the tape off to figure out the handlebars. I have checked e-bay. The prices are quite varied.
> 
> Here is another listing from ebay for $900.
> 
> Trek 5500 Oclv | eBay


You will find all sorts of prices on ebay, just because someone asks for a certain price doesn't mean that it's actually worth it.

Coming from a "shop" I personally would have expected that details of the bike would have been disclosed. Like the original build, why parts were changed out, accidents since its a CF frame. Are the swapped out parts really an upgrade or just some bolt ons because the originals were pulled for another bike. Unless you've got a LOT of additional information there are a lot of details missing about this bike that make the whole deal sketchy to say the least. As far as the bars, based on everything else you've shared about this bike and the "shop" i would question that they were anything more than a chinese aftermarket knockoff.

You've been given a lot of feedback on this purchase from a good number of intelligent knowledgeable people, what you do with it is up to you. I wish you luck.

EEC


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## mantrain (Jul 10, 2016)

chudak said:


> I think at this point the OP is just trying to find justification for keeping the bike...and no one will convince him otherwise. He's gotten a lot of good information that he seems heavily inclined to ignore or refute.
> 
> Best of luck and if you keep it I hope you enjoy riding it...


I am just trying to gather the facts because I see varied prices on the internet and I am not sure how I would otherwise afford carbon fiber. I have ridden it 20 miles and no issues in terms of back aches or anything afterward. it seemed seamless but I have not yet decided. I called the LBS and they told me they would refund the $, but I need to be sure first because I really to love the feel of the bike.


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

I try to find variances in the used marketplace and snap up good bike deals all the time. Sorry to say but this is a horrible purchase and irrespective of how you choose to proceed (hopefully you paid by credit card so you can simply initiate a refund) I would avoid that shop.

Pricing out components at retail is an old trick to inflate the value of something. It doesn't matter what model those bars are. Today, you can get a pair of Easton EC 90SL3 bars for just over a hundred bucks, or a pair of 3T Ergonova LTD's for double that. Hell, I have those Easton bars for sale - like new barely ridden for 100 miles - and I can't even sell them for $70. Today's market clearing price on today's products render your quoted $400 price meaningless. Unless you are trying to use that misrepresentation as the cornerstone of a return. 

There is a HUGE I repeat HUGE amount of trickle down technology every few years from top end products to middle products, and then to entry level offerings. A 2015 entry level group is very far ahead of even the top shelf stuff of ten years ago. The same goes for carbon fiber layups and advances in, that 2004 Trek feels nothing like a 2014 Trek frame. As an avid MTB'er you probably already know these things. 

Have you ridden on a modern - current - carbon road bike? Have you shifted up and down through the entire cassette on a modern SRAM or Shimano offering? How does this compare to the feel of that ten year bike?

Don't be tricked into thinking dura ace of 2004 is anything like Dura Ace of 2016... I mean heck, just on weight alone they've shaved a whole bunch of weight over the last ten years.... and you are paying for weight at that level so you can't compare. Additionally, it looks like the shift cables aren't even routed through the hoods and into the bars, but stick out of the units and meet by the head tube... even the lowest end current offerings incorporate cables into the hood.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

Here is my feeling about this. 

The bike is worth whatever the OP is willing to pay for it. If he's happy with the bike and plans to ride the crap out of it for many years, it's probably a great deal in the long run. I'm guessing resale value is not a consideration here.

I think what most of us are concerned about is that the OP might be making a decision based on emotion, and not common sense. He really wants a carbon bike, and this one presented itself to him. 

He could go around to every bike shop within driving distance and may not find another bike he likes as much for the money.

In the end, it's only money, and while $800 or whatever is a lot of money in some contexts, over the course of a lifetime, it's a drop in the bucket.

To the OP, my suggestion would be, if you decide to keep that bike, to just smile and be happy about it. Stop trying to resolve all of these details in this thread. It's really all just a bunch of minutiae. You know if you are prone to emotional purchase mistakes. If you have made that kind of mistake in the past, then hopefully learned from it, and can apply those lessons here. If you are really in love with the bike, and are willing to pay what the guy is asking, then by all means buy it, and ride the crap out of it. Just understand that you have to live with the decision down the road. 

You and only you (and your family) have to deal with this. If you buy the bike and after a month or two decide you don't enjoy riding it, or can't stand the look of it, then you've blown your money and are stuck with it. If your $800 means a lot to you, then I'd step back and reconsider for a week or three. If after that time you still want the bike, go buy it and ride the crap out of it.

I know from experience having a bike you don't love is just a waste of space and money. It will just sit in your garage and not get ridden.


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## fast ferd (Jan 30, 2009)

I agree with Migen. This surely turned into a "you got gypped" thread real fast. The OP only asked for some help with accessorizing and everybody piled onto the slamfest. Who knows, he might ride this Trek 10k per year for the next ten years and really get his money's worth. And enjoy every minute of it.


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## mantrain (Jul 10, 2016)

fast ferd said:


> I agree with Migen. This surely turned into a "you got gypped" thread real fast. The OP only asked for some help with accessorizing and everybody piled onto the slamfest. Who knows, he might ride this Trek 10k per year for the next ten years and really get his money's worth. And enjoy every minute of it.


OMG thanks I wasn't sure what I got myself into here. If I over spent $300 trust me in the course of my life it won't be a big deal I am more intereted in enjoying my time. I trialed this bike and fell in love with it. All sorts of posters here have basically said 'you asked our opinion it is to your peril if you do not take it.' 

Worse case scenario is the bike sits there. If I over paid $300, life will tolerate that somehow -- that is not cancer or hepatitis.


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## FeltF75rider (Feb 10, 2012)

Guessing your going to keep the bike so at least get a fit. Not sure what's in the saddle bag but you will want a flat kit and a spare tube. I think for piece of mind I would take the bike to a different shop and at least get the frame looked over. See if they find anything questionable, no need to pay full price if it's damaged and if it is return it. Other than that ride the wheels off it.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

mantrain said:


> Yes, I have to take all the tape off to figure out the handlebars. I have checked e-bay. The prices are quite varied.


As you've been told numerous times, you can't go by what people are "asking" for on ebay. You need to look at what things sold for. And even then, people (as you know) pay more than what they should. 



mantrain said:


> View attachment 315060
> 
> 
> a close up of the handlebars.


So the guy who sold you the bike isn't a fraud, but he convinced you they were $400 handlebars, yet couldn't even tell what brand they were. 




mantrain said:


> OMG thanks I wasn't sure what I got myself into here. If I over spent $300 trust me in the course of my life it won't be a big deal I am more intereted in enjoying my time. I trialed this bike and fell in love with it. All sorts of posters here have basically said 'you asked our opinion it is to your peril if you do not take it.'
> 
> *Worse case scenario is the bike sits there*. If I over paid $300, life will tolerate that somehow -- that is not cancer or hepatitis.


Well... you probably paid more than $300 over. But that's not really the issue. You're emotionally in love with a bike, yet you could've gotten a better bike for the money and loved it even more.

Worst case scenario is.... you've got a 12yro bike in unknown condition. The reason the fork and wheels were replaced is because it was crashed. The carbon frame is internally damaged (which you can't see) and it's going to fail on you.


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## mantrain (Jul 10, 2016)

Migen21 said:


> Here is my feeling about this.
> 
> The bike is worth whatever the OP is willing to pay for it. If he's happy with the bike and plans to ride the crap out of it for many years, it's probably a great deal in the long run. I'm guessing resale value is not a consideration here.
> 
> ...


An extremely insighful post. Yes buying consumer items is essentially emotional. Few of us make a living on biking. I really love the feel of this bike and if you look back at the reviews of this model/year it has been very positive for those who have ridden and reviewd. my experience is MTBng but I can feel good bike. For $800 the feel is great Very smooth, very responsive, very light. I am sure it does not compare to current technology but I am not going to spend more than $800.

Mtbk remains my number one passion so far as biking goes. I love being in the nature more than in the road. So, I do not even want to invest the time to find a bike like this that is a few bucks cheaper. There will always be a better deal. And I have no doubt there are better deals out there and the posters indicate. But so long as this bike is what it is, and there are no hidden issues, than I will be fine.
I have many other interests in life so again I am not going to invest that much time into finding a good carbon fiber bike that I can afford. Thanks for great comments.


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## mantrain (Jul 10, 2016)

tlg said:


> As you've been told numerous times, you can't go by what people are "asking" for on ebay. You need to look at what things sold for. And even then, people (as you know) pay more than what they should.
> 
> So the guy who sold you the bike isn't a fraud, but he convinced you they were $400 handlebars, yet couldn't even tell what brand they were.
> 
> ...



wait a second, the frame is internally cracked? You know this how? That is quite an accusation. I know that in the world of MNTBG we change compeonents all the time.

Just the same I have a bill of sale that indicates the bike is sold in "good condition." If the frame is cracked -- I will get my money back or crucify the LBS owner, and I mean crucify -- if that means all my friends getting on Yelp or picketing on the weekend in front of his store.

I do not care about the $800. I love the bike right now. If I over paid (and these most commonly are being sold on the internet for what I paid) than no big deal! 
$800 is not a lot of money for me. I spent an amount of money that I could afford to spend without any second thought. But it is a big deal if there is a material defect.


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## mantrain (Jul 10, 2016)

Wait a second, the frame is internally cracked? You know this how? That is quite an accusation. I know that in the world of MNTBG we change components all the time.

Just the same I have a bill of sale that indicates the bike is sold in "good condition." If the frame is cracked -- I will get my money back or crucify the LBS owner, and I mean crucify -- if that means all my friends getting on Yelp or picketing on the weekend in front of his store.

I do not care about the $800. I love the bike right now. If I over paid (and these most commonly are being sold on the internet for what I paid) than no big deal! 
$800 is not a lot of money for me. I spent an amount of money that I could afford to spend without any second thought. But it is a big deal if there is a material defect.


Edit -- this is a brand new shop. the man who owns it is a retiree engineer from Solar Turbines -- a very large employer in San Diego. I can read people and in his mind he provided a fair exchange. HE honestly believes that this is a good bike for the money and that the bike is "sweet" "clean" etc. "The best bike in this store."
I believe he believes this. I believe he is not trying to swindle me and that he is trying hard to develop his customer base. He spent a ton of time with me but I Can tell you he is not an expert on bikes -- I would rate him as an advanced amateur if there is such a thing. Still, if there is a defect he might try and blame me, saying that I must have crashed it. I will not let him get away with that. I will have a ton of fun discouraging new customers by picketing the front of the store.

Okay, I just want to make sure the carbon fiber frame is all good. Last post freaked me out.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

Mantrain,

I can't speak for others, but the fact that the fork and wheels are not original is worrisome. The fork especially. Those don't normally wear out, or get replaced as a component upgrade. They get replaced when they are damaged.

That isn't to say you shouldn't buy the bike, but this is the kind of thing you can leverage for a better deal. It's a 12 year old carbon fiber bike that does not have the original fork, and no one knows why. Tell him you are concerned about the possibility that it's been crashed and may be been damaged, and that you'd either like a discount, or you'd like some kind of a return warranty if it turns out that there is a problem. 

Damage to carbon fiber is not always obvious (it doesn't fail in the same way metals do). You really can't be certain it's not damaged without having an inspection done by a qualified person with the proper equipment (i'm not talking your typical hack bike shop mechanic here). 

The fact is, buying used CF bikes is a sketchy proposition under any circumstances. Buying a 12 year old CF bike that doesn't have it's original fork raises some flags for me.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Migen21 said:


> Mantrain,
> 
> I can't speak for others, but *the fact that the fork and wheels are not original is worrisome. * The fork especially. Those don't normally wear out, or get replaced as a component upgrade. They get replaced when they are damaged.
> 
> ...


When dealing with used bikes there are usually more questions than answers, but based on the track record of the OE wheelset (Bonty paired spoked wheels) it's not surprising they were replaced along the way. 

They had a rep for cracking around the spoke holes, and since Trek has a lifetime warranty, were replacing them regularly. If you'll notice, their current wheelset offerings are of a more conventional design.

To the remainder of your post, I think you're spot-on. Buying used CF is a gamble, and IMO in this price range newer alu or steel are better bets - and easily found in the used bike market. 

OP, I do have one (rhetorical) question for you. If the amount paid is no big deal for you, why did you mention the bike being over your budget in an earlier post. So much so, that you made a deal with the LBS to pay 1/2 upon receipt, the other half in (I believe) a week. Seems a bit of a contradiction.


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## mantrain (Jul 10, 2016)

PJ352 said:


> When dealing with used bikes there are usually more questions than answers, but based on the track record of the OE wheelset (Bonty paired spoked wheels) it's not surprising they were replaced along the way.
> 
> They had a rep for cracking around the spoke holes, and since Trek has a lifetime warranty, were replacing them regularly. If you'll notice, their current wheelset offerings are of a more conventional design.
> 
> ...


I am going to Hawaii on Sat so I don't want any cash issues. Money is always an issue but in the longer scheme if I am happy with this bike -- that is to say, if it does not fail, then the money is not an issue.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

mantrain said:


> I am going to Hawaii on Sat so I don't want any cash issues. Money is always an issue but in the longer scheme if I am happy with this bike -- that is to say, if it does not fail, then the money is not an issue.


I understand. This is your money and most likely going to be your bike, so we don't have to agree with your decision. 

Whatever it is, I hope it works well for you. It's a great sport, just ride safe.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

If you enjoy riding the bike why change things? Change what you don't like, not change for changes sake. The wheels were already swapped which is huge. On my Trek I swapped the wheels and handlebars. Original wheels while bullet proof were very out of date and not stiff or light, just solid. The handlebars didn't fit my hands well so swapped them for an Aluminum 3T with a shallower bend. I'd say you have a good bike on your hands.

Saddle is usually the first thing people replace. I had two saddles on my Trek before getting it right. Same thing occurred on my Colnago. Avoided the issue on my Firefly as I just told the bike shop to purchase the same saddle I used on my C-59.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

mantrain said:


> I am just trying to gather the facts because I see varied prices on the internet and I am not sure how I would otherwise afford carbon fiber. I have ridden it 20 miles and no issues in terms of back aches or anything afterward. it seemed seamless but I have not yet decided. I called the LBS and they told me they would refund the $, but I need to be sure first because I really to love the feel of the bike.


Hey, excuse me for breaking in, but isn't this frame the one Lance Armstrong was winning TDF's on and wanted to keep riding when Trek switched the team over to a different design? That's a great bike, and it rides like one too, right? Keep it and enjoy! 

Bend the brake levers down a little so you can get in the drops and lay on the hoods. 

And level that saddle. 

If dealer is willing to take it back, he'd probably take a cut on the balance, right? Offer him another $150 and see where it goes.

Really, that bike may be a diamond in the rough. If Lance liked it, you will too!


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

Fredrico said:


> Hey, excuse me for breaking in, but isn't this frame the one Lance Armstrong was winning TDF's on and wanted to keep riding when Trek switched the team over to a different design? That's a great bike, and it rides like one too, right? Keep it and enjoy!
> 
> Bend the brake levers down a little so you can get in the drops and lay on the hoods.
> 
> ...


I still ride my 5200 on occasion. It's a 2001 model. It's a good frame. Some of the criticisms of the ride are really about the wheels in my opinion. Provides a nice ride. Geometry isn't as good for me as my Colnago is but for a 2001 bike , its very good. And like Fredrico wrote, it was good enough for Lance.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

mantrain said:


> wait a second, the frame is internally cracked? You know this how? That is quite an accusation. I know that in the world of MNTBG we change compeonents all the time.


Are you even reading what people write? 

I said that was worst case scenario. I don't know. But the key point is neither do you. 
Sure, people change components all the time. But not typically a fork (with one that doesn't match), and not by "a dentist that never used the bike much".



> Just the same I have a bill of sale that indicates the bike is sold in "good condition." If the frame is cracked -- I will get my money back or crucify the LBS owner


It was an as is sale. You have no warranty. Just as in buying a used car, it's the buyers responsibility to do their due diligence before purchase. You'd have to prove the LBS knew it wasn't in "good condition" and lied to you. Which you'd never do. He doesn't even know what he sold you and you claim he "believed it's a good bike".

This is why people were telling you you'd be better off buying a new bike for the same money. New bikes come with warranties. 



> Still, if there is a defect he might try and blame me, saying that I must have crashed it. I will not let him get away with that. I will have a ton of fun discouraging new customers by picketing the front of the store.


Of course he will. You own it now and he has no control over what you do to it. 
I don't think you need to worry about picketing in front of the store. Sounds like he won't be in business long.


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

tlg, you've made your opinion on it pretty clear and a lot of regulars here are probably in agreement with you at least to some degree. If you keep hammering your point in I don't think you're going to change mantrain's mind at this point, but you could drive away a new user who could add valuable conversation to our forum...

mantrain, on the flip side you have to understand the users hear have a TON of experience and their collective advice should be taken into account. Nothing drives some of the people here (or other forum communities) more nuts than when a newbie asks a question, gets the same answer from multiple people, and then appears to toss the advice aside. Whether or not that's what's happening here is of course subjective, just something to think about.

Bike rides great and you like it? Awesome. YOU don't feel like you overpaid for it? Awesome. Enjoy it. BUT people who are telling you it's an extremely old bike, has had some changes made to it that cause questions, and that in general the price you paid for it is too high... are all correct.

And with regard to the shop... if they are "unable" or unwilling to answer questions about the bike and couldn't tell you things like what year it was, it really is a questionable shop because they are either not knowledgeable enough to be in the business they are in, or they are scammers.


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## pittcanna (Oct 2, 2014)

Honest opinion here, but that bike is absolute dud for what you paid for it.

My first road bike was the bargin brand novara, aluminum frame carbon fork 105 groupset, completely new for 900 dollars and with rei points 10% was a steal.

Aluminum is the best for beginner road bike because it will be banged up and slightly abused. 

I would go back to the shop you got that trek and see if you can get your money back.


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## mantrain (Jul 10, 2016)

pittcanna said:


> Honest opinion here, but that bike is absolute dud for what you paid for it.
> 
> My first road bike was the bargin brand novara, aluminum frame carbon fork 105 groupset, completely new for 900 dollars and with rei points 10% was a steal.
> 
> ...



I want carbon fiber.


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## pittcanna (Oct 2, 2014)

mantrain said:


> I want carbon fiber.


You want carbon fiber, But you need aluminum.

The first year i rode aluminum no issues, you are still on flat pedals for godsake.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

mantrain said:


> I want carbon fiber.


Nothing wrong with "wanting" carbon fiber. We all do. But carbon fiber & aluminum have come a long way in the last 12 years. A modern aluminum bike with modern components is every bit as good (and probably better) than a bike from 12yrs ago.


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## mantrain (Jul 10, 2016)

if I was to go aluminum I would just stay with MTbing. The heart wants what the heart wants. plus I want to avoid buying something made in China. At least I have something made in the Good ole

Damn Chinese.


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## pittcanna (Oct 2, 2014)

mantrain said:


> if I was to go aluminum I would just stay with MTbing. The heart wants what the heart wants. plus I want to avoid buying something made in China. At least I have something made in the Good ole
> 
> Damn Chinese.


Dude you know aluminum is still a competitive material look at crit racing and cyclocross. Used carbon fiber is worse than new aluminum especially since they installed a new fork and wheels. Because it has been crashed.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

mantrain said:


> OMG thanks I wasn't sure what I got myself into here. If I over spent $300 trust me in the course of my life it won't be a big deal I am more intereted in enjoying my time. I trialed this bike and fell in love with it. All sorts of posters here have basically said 'you asked our opinion it is to your peril if you do not take it.'
> 
> Worse case scenario is the bike sits there. If I over paid $300, life will tolerate that somehow -- that is not cancer or hepatitis.


Sorry I'm late to the party. A few thoughts:

1) What something is worth to YOU may not be what is "market rate". Market rate is an average price a buyer and seller agree on. If you love the bike, it may be worth more. If you hate it, it's worth nothing.

2) It's obvious the wheels were changed. As stated before, the paired spoke Bontrager wheels of that vintage were notorious for spoke hole cracks. Just about every one of these had this problem. Be glad you didn't get the original wheels!!!!!

3) The fork looks like it may have been changed - maybe. It is entirely possible Trek changed the fork design mid-model year. I found these two pics of the same bike in the same color. Each has a different fork design:

https://www.gcbicycling.com/2004_5200_rb/images/right_side.jpg 

2004 Trek 5200 Oclv Carbon Road Bicycle | eBay

And if the fork was indeed changed, it is no guarantee that the reason was because it was crashed. Probable, but not 100% certain. Maybe a ham fisted mechanic cracked the steerer tube while clamping down the new handlebars?

That being said, bikes do get crashed. I would take ANY used carbon bike to a reputable bike shop that has been in business for awhile and have them go over the frame with a fine tooth comb to look for cracks.

And definitely get a proper fit. A proper fit is one where they put you and your bike on a trainer, watch you pedal and make adjustments to dial in your fit just right. Any bike shop worth their weight should do this when they sell a bike. If you take it some place where you didn't buy the bike, it will cost you around $100-200, but it is money well spent and will improve your enjoyment of the bike.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

pittcanna said:


> Used carbon fiber is worse than new aluminum especially since they installed a new fork and wheels. Because it has been crashed.


New fork and wheels is suspicious, but not proof it's been crashed.


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## Fredrico (Jun 15, 2002)

mantrain said:


> I want carbon fiber.


And you're getting top of the line carbon fiber approved by the Motorola cycling team which won races on that very bike. Go for it. Don't let people compare it to a cheap ass sub thousand dollar aluminum bike. The 5200 is a way superior ride and you will appreciate that the more you ride it. It may ride stiffer than today's carbon frames. Lance preferred it over I believe the Madone which followed the 5200 as the team bike.

Carbon absorbs shocks better than aluminum. That will save you from being "beat up" by the stiff and responsive handling the 5200 provides. Go for it.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

pittcanna said:


> Aluminum is the best for beginner road bike because it will be banged up and slightly abused.


based on your extensive personal research no doubt...


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

mantrain said:


> if I was to go aluminum I would just stay with MTbing. The heart wants what the heart wants. plus I want to avoid buying something made in China. At least I have something made in the Good ole.......



The last USA made bike by Trek or Cannondale was 2010, except for a select few $6,000+ bikes. Giant and Specialized moved production to Asia way before that.


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## pittcanna (Oct 2, 2014)

Oxtox said:


> based on your extensive personal research no doubt...


Especially when i started using the clipless pedals.

I am not going to lie i fell quite a few times.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

He's not a newbie. He's been mountain biking and knows how to not fall off (I'm assuming here).

Aluminum is what it is. It's NOT for me. My first 'modern' bike was aluminium. It felt fine riding it around the bike shop parking lot, but I could not stand riding it for more than 30 min max. After sitting in my garage for 4 years not being ridden, I dusted off the cobwebs and sold it and went with a modern carbon bike, which worked MUCH better for me. 

Also, as someone pointed out, comparing a team bike from 2004 to a recent model entry level REI aluminum bike is not a good comparison. Sure, the stuff is older, but if the bike is in safe condition, the Trek is hands down a better bike.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

mantrain, I say go ahead and buy the bike. You like it, and you want to try riding a road bike. I have no opinion on price/value, carbon vs. aluminum (all my bikes are steel), or most of the rest of this. If you want to try negotiating the price down a bit, you probably can succeed at that, but if you don't feel like doing that, whatever.

You did, however, begin this thread asking about what else you should buy. Based on your concerns about cars on the road in the other thread, I strongly advise giving mirrors a try. Not everyone likes them or learns to use them well, and some roadies reject them for aesthetic or other reasons that I don't think are very well considered, but that's their choice. I do think that a new road rider should at least give them a serious try before deciding.

Here are the ones I like, but there are other designs.







Sprintech Dropbar Mirror > Accessories > Commuting & Touring > Mirrors | Jenson USA
Many people say the ones attached to the helmet or eyeglass frame give the best field of view, if you can get the hang of using them (I couldn't, because of the strong distortion of my prescription lenses). Try something to see what works for you.

This is a topic of considerable debate around here (though it may have been a while since there was a long thread). If you do a search you can find a lot of viewpoints. It's likely someone will chime in with dissenting opinions soon ("just turn your head"; "just use your ears", etc.) My advice is at least to try it. You have expressed considerable anxiety about sharing the road with cars. In my experience, having a mirror and learning to use it well does a LOT to alleviate that.

Happy riding.


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## mantrain (Jul 10, 2016)

Migen21 said:


> He's not a newbie. He's been mountain biking and knows how to not fall off (I'm assuming here).
> 
> Aluminum is what it is. It's NOT for me. My first 'modern' bike was aluminium. It felt fine riding it around the bike shop parking lot, but I could not stand riding it for more than 30 min max. After sitting in my garage for 4 years not being ridden, I dusted off the cobwebs and sold it and went with a modern carbon bike, which worked MUCH better for me.
> 
> Also, as someone pointed out, comparing a team bike from 2004 to a recent model entry level REI aluminum bike is not a good comparison. Sure, the stuff is older, but if the bike is in safe condition, the Trek is hands down a better bike.


I have been riding all my 48 yrs but yeah just getting into cycling on the road. Okay I do feel like teen w this new bike -- the emotions of buying something that feels so nice to me. Very suprized regarding the "you got gypped " posts since this bike feels so nice. Okay by 2004 there was more than 100 years of developed bike technology. People seem to think that was ancient, but for me that was the day before yesterday. Hell, the nuke was first detonated in 1945. I really do not want a Chinese aluminum or Chinese carbon bike (take a trip to China and eat some food made of the famous "Chinese gutter oil". I know It's very hard to avoid Chinese without some serious deep pockets, but atleast:


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## fast ferd (Jan 30, 2009)

Unsure how much it matters, concerning whether his Trek ever sustained any kind of crash. Trek constructed the 5200 as a monococque (spelling?) layout, without internal joints or lugs. This makes the frame tremendously stiff and strong. My similarly monococque Kestrel 200sci (40k miles and still ridden occasionally) took a massive beating during one of my spills on a group ride, with a big dude piling into me. The crash gouged a couple spots on the frame. That was 20k miles ago! No problems, whatsoever! And I constantly inspect all areas of my trusty ol Kestrel for damage, including laying a heavy foot into it to see if any breakage might occur. Strong as all hell.

Anyway, that's my experience. Your results may vary.


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## mantrain (Jul 10, 2016)

And next time you buy Chinese consider this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutter_oil


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

mantrain said:


> And next time you buy Chinese consider this:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutter_oil


It's Taiwan, not China. And yes, a good chunk of ALL carbon frames (even those in the $5,000 price bracket) are made in factories in Taiwan, or are outsourced to other companies with factories in Taiwan.

I think I understand your thought pattern a little better having read your latest response. 

It's interesting that you value something being made in USA - I'm reading between the lines - but at the same time do not put any value on the incremental American ingenuity accrued over the last ten years and translated into a vastly improved product. I'm speaking about SRAM's and Shimano's American R&D departments.


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

How come nobody in this thread has asked if Trek makes good bikes?


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

9W9W said:


> It's Taiwan, not China. And yes, a good chunk of ALL carbon frames (even those in the $5,000 price bracket) are made in factories in Taiwan, or are outsourced to other companies with factories in Taiwan.


If you look at the Wikipedia article, they said Mainland China AND Taiwan.

And Trek has factories in both.


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## jetdog9 (Jul 12, 2007)

9W9W said:


> It's interesting that you value something being made in USA - I'm reading between the lines - but at the same time do not put any value on the incremental American ingenuity accrued over the last ten years and translated into a vastly improved product. I'm speaking about SRAM's and Shimano's American R&D departments.


If the bits and bobs start to break or wear but the frame lasts forever, he can always upgrade to an Ultegra 6800 groupset for pretty cheap, although that'll mean new wheels...


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## Tachycardic (Mar 31, 2013)

mantrain said:


> if I was to go aluminum I would just stay with MTbing. The heart wants what the heart wants. plus I want to avoid buying something made in China. At least I have something made in the Good ole
> 
> Damn Chinese.


I was going to say something insightful, but then you had to be a xenophobe. A lot of Shimano is made in Singapore. You gonna damn the Singaporeans too? Stop being a jerk about this stuff. It's a global economy. Get used to it.


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## daddyjakes (Aug 13, 2011)

jetdog9 said:


> How come nobody in this thread has asked if Trek makes good bikes?


This is a thread that could go on forever but that question really made me laugh.


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## mantrain (Jul 10, 2016)

Tachycardic said:


> I was going to say something insightful, but then you had to be a xenophobe. A lot of Shimano is made in Singapore. You gonna damn the Singaporeans too? Stop being a jerk about this stuff. It's a global economy. Get used to it.



I prefer made in USA. Sorry jerk or not I am not changing my mind on that one. Have you ever tasted gutter oil?


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## FeltF75rider (Feb 10, 2012)

Not really clear on the bike purchase. Is it yours? Lot of heat for how you spend your money, really none of my business. Some quick thoughts for ya.
1) just ride it and get a feel for the bike , get fitted but don't change anything that does not affect fit. Find out what you like and dislike and then you can get the bike where you want it. After two years I swapped out a set of 3T Ergosum bars for a set of Ergonova bars. Both are great bars but the drops are more comfortable and I like the shape of the tops. 
2) go for some clippless pedals and shoes. Not an upgrade but really a game changer for me. A more connected feel to the bike and consistent foot placement for developing a good pedal stroke.
If the bike makes you happy go out and enjoy it. Get your money's worth of use out of it and enjoy road biking.


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## ExChefinMA (May 9, 2012)

mantrain said:


> I prefer made in USA. Sorry jerk or not I am not changing my mind on that one. Have you ever tasted gutter oil?


Dude, 

Are you eating the bike or riding it? Oh, and I'm 99% sure that that "made in USA" sticker means that it was assembled here by parts made all over Asia, but I'll leave that to someone else to explain.

It sounds like no matter what anyone has to say to you regarding this purchase, you have made up your mind.

Personally, I'm done. Best of luck, I hope that our concerns about potential hidden damage on a bike sold to you by a huckster are unfounded and you did get that real gem of a ride.

EEC 

</thread>


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Tachycardic said:


> I was going to say something insightful, but then you had to be a xenophobe. A lot of Shimano is made in Singapore. You gonna damn the Singaporeans too? Stop being a jerk about this stuff. It's a global economy. Get used to it.


Actually, most Shimano components are made in Malaysia.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

mantrain said:


> I prefer made in USA. Sorry jerk or not I am not changing my mind on that one.


Do you really know what the sticker means? 

Was the carbon fiber actually made and weaved in the USA?
Where the shifters & brakes made in USA?
Was the stem made in USA?
Was the saddle made in USA?
How about the tires and tubes?


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

jetdog9 said:


> If the bits and bobs start to break or wear but the frame lasts forever, he can always upgrade to an Ultegra 6800 groupset for pretty cheap, although that'll mean new wheels...


That depends which generation of Ultegra wheels those are on his bike. If they are 6800, he's golden. If a previous generation, they will not work with an 11-speed cassette.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

FeltF75rider said:


> 1) just ride it and get a feel for the bike , get fitted but don't change anything that does not affect fit. Find out what you like and dislike and then you can get the bike where you want it.......
> 
> ......Get your money's worth of use out of it and enjoy road biking.


Mantrain,

This.

Now read that last line again, and again, and again. The more you ride and enjoy the bike, the better an investment it will be.

About clipless pedals, I would hold off on that for awhile until you get really used to road riding. Don't introduce yourself to too many changes at once.....that is unless you already use clipless pedals on your mountain bike, then go ahead......if you want.



mantrain said:


> I prefer made in USA. Sorry jerk or not I am not changing my mind on that one. Have you ever tasted gutter oil?


So do I and so do many others prefer USA made. However, that is getting nearly impossible in this day and age. For me, it's more of the human rights issue than anything else. I see the Foxconn workers with the "suicide nets" around the factory working 14 hour days, 7 days a week for slave wages while corporate execs and stockholders rake in record profits. Then the more "benevolent companies" are forced to also take their production overseas in order to be able to compete. It has spiraled to the point where there is no turning back. We close our eyes and buy this stuff - don't get me wrong, I'm guilty of it too.

To be fair, you had my support until you made the remark "Damn Chinese" at which point, it became a xenophobic rant. At that point, you lost me and I'm sure many others here, sorry.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

I do toe-clip pedals now.
I used clipless for a while. I still have them, and could swap them out quickly.
But I prefer being able to get off the bike and walk in case of emergency, or have firm footing for running away from danger, and so on.

Also, my wife can pick up my bike and ride to check out a garage sale down the street, a friend can ride, etc.

It takes a while to figure out shoes, and to get the strap right, but that effort is required either way.

I have gotten older and I am transitioning into the old man phase where I don't care about what others might think of me on an organized ride.

I also wear those mtn bike style cycling shorts all the time.

People may see "Fred," but at least I can hold a steady pace for a long time, and achieve my goals.

I did HHH in Wichita Falls one year, and got passed at about mile 75 by a guy wearing Chuck Taylors. That memory stays with me.


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

No offense to you other older folks on this board, but it's amazing how easy it is to pick out the older folks based on their world views. I mean you don't even have to ask, three posts in its painfully obvious. I'm sure the same applies to the other extreme of the age spectrum.


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## mantrain (Jul 10, 2016)

tlg said:


> Do you really know what the sticker means?
> 
> Was the carbon fiber actually made and weaved in the USA?
> Where the shifters & brakes made in USA?
> ...


Never can be too sure. But I have to draw the line somewhere.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

mantrain said:


> And next time you buy Chinese consider this:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutter_oil


Violet Rutherford drinks gutter water.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

9W9W said:


> No offense to you other older folks on this board.....


Hey! I resemble that remark.  Well, sort of. There are still many here older than I.


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## SPlKE (Sep 10, 2007)

Lombard said:


> Hey! I resemble that remark.  Well, sort of. There are still many here older than I.


If like me, you're old enough to remember Violet Rutherford, you're getting up there in years. If not, you're a whippersnapper.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

SPlKE said:


> If like me, you're old enough to remember Violet Rutherford, you're getting up there in years. If not, you're a whippersnapper.


By that criteria, I guess I'm still a whippersnapper, you geezer you. :wink5:


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## mantrain (Jul 10, 2016)

Not sure of any of you remember this old thread I started four years ago. Well, fast forward, I have definatly gotten my $900 worth. But now I want a new CC road bike.

it is Covid 19, and my economic future is maybe ok, but who knows? Therefore I would like to be conservative in my expendenture. 

Would anyone know, if this bike, on Amazon, would be a step up, and a better bike than the one I have now (trek 5200 from 2004 I think) ?


https://www.amazon.com/SAVADECK-Car...=carbon+fiber+road+bike&qid=1593975840&sr=8-1


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

I would say you got your money's worth - 4 years, $900.

Personally, I would pass on that Amazon bike unless others here recognize that brand. Looks like a generic of some sort. 

I would hold off until you can afford more as a good reputable name brand carbon bike with 105 will be more like $2,000. Otherwise, you're really making a lateral move or even a step down.


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

[B said:


> Lombard[/B];5432849] I would say you got your money's worth - 4 years, $900.
> 
> Personally, I would pass on that Amazon bike unless others here recognize that brand. _*Looks like a generic of some sort.
> *_
> _*I would hold off until you can afford more as a good reputable name brand carbon bike with 105 will be more like*_ $2,000. Otherwise, you're really making a lateral move or even a step down.


LOL... I hear train wreck #4 comming Loud and Clear...

*" 9W9W " **no offense to you other** older folks on this board, but it's amazing how easy it is to pick out the older folks based on their world views." 
*
Well said 9W... You have the gift . Now let's ride the road.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

mantrain said:


> Would anyone know, if this bike, on Amazon, would be a step up, and a better bike than the one I have now (trek 5200 from 2004 I think) ?


I guarantee it will be more colorful than your T5200. I would imagine that your T5200 has better components. I'd just keep it. If your going to update, I definitely would go with disc brakes if you live in hills. 
I had a T5200, they ride like a dead piece of wood, so I could see you want to move on. I updated, my current bike is a canyon.


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## mantrain (Jul 10, 2016)

duriel said:


> I guarantee it will be more colorful than your T5200. I would imagine that your T5200 has better components. I'd just keep it. If your going to update, I definitely would go with disc brakes if you live in hills.
> I had a T5200, they ride like a dead piece of wood, so I could see you want to move on. I updated, my current bike is a canyon.



so my bike rides like a dead piece of wood and I didnt even know it. I do not know what I do not know, since this is pretty much the only road bike i've ridden. What if that model could be ungraded for disc brakes?

check this model out from same brand. They appear to be big on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/SAVADECK-Pha...=carbon+fiber+road+bike&qid=1593999153&sr=8-4


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

rudge66 said:


> LOL... I hear train wreck #4 comming Loud and Clear...


Are you still butthurt because your poor advice was called out by everybody in the other thread?

Don't cry, Rudge. It will be OK.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

OK, I looked at the 'new' bike. 
I haven't been following your thread and just joined in so I have no idea your age/ability/expectations/local where you ride.
But will that stop me, no!
Why are you selecting 'time trial' bikes, those all are going to be very stiff and rigid. I hope you are young and flexible as those have some serious seat to handlebar drop.
At least this bike has better gears, still no disks. Do you ride in hills/mtns?


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

The problem I'd have is that its a no name brand sold over Amazon. One of the reviews initially said he gave it five stars, but that all changed when the frame imploded a year later, as did the one they sent to warranty the first frame. I know people who buy these no name carbon frames from China for $300 and rave about them. I think I have to agree with Lombard ... save your money and buy something name brand. While you save, shop around so you'll be able to identify a really good deal when one comes along. 

The Trek 5200 did have a reputation for riding like a piece of wood. But I've never ridden one, so I don't know.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

pmf said:


> The Trek 5200 did have a reputation for riding like a piece of wood. But I've never ridden one, so I don't know.


Wood is pretty strong, you know.  A good supple set of tires would help.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

duriel said:


> OK, I looked at the 'new' bike.
> I haven't been following your thread and just joined in so I have no idea your age/ability/expectations/local where you ride.
> But will that stop me, no!
> Why are you selecting 'time trial' bikes, those all are going to be very stiff and rigid. I hope you are young and flexible as those have some serious seat to handlebar drop.
> At least this bike has better gears, still no disks. Do you ride in hills/mtns?


Why are you saying that road bike is a TT bike?

For the OP...do yourself a HUGE favor and don't by a bike off Amazon.


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## duriel (Oct 10, 2013)

The frame cross sections are modified for aerodynamics and not for suppleness or ride quality, so maybe I was mistaken and it is not a full on racing team TT bike. ...and being on amazon I question all the other things beyond that.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

duriel said:


> The frame cross sections are modified for aerodynamics and not for suppleness or ride quality, so maybe I was mistaken and it is not a full on racing team TT bike. ...and being on amazon I question all the other things beyond that.


'Aero road bike'...a la Trek Madone, Specialized Venge, etc. Geo is not even close to a TT bike. And the Madone rides better than the Emonda...


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## smokersteve (May 22, 2016)

mantrain said:


> Not sure of any of you remember this old thread I started four years ago. Well, fast forward, I have definatly gotten my $900 worth. But now I want a new CC road bike.
> 
> it is Covid 19, and my economic future is maybe ok, but who knows? Therefore I would like to be conservative in my expendenture.
> 
> ...


What size bike do you ride and what is your price range?


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

Lombard said:


> Are you still butthurt because your poor advice was called out by everybody in the other thread?
> 
> Don't cry, Rudge. It will be OK.


Thank's for your concern. I'm slowly getting there. it's a struggle but I'm gonna make it.
I do feel a little uncomfortable that the GT guy spent a bit on a heavy gravel bike that may well be too big. just to ride in town.
I think we all understood he's 90% on the road, and could have been better off with many another choice. 

But....... To The Matter At Hand,
Ladies, and Gentelmen... Each And Everyone Of You.

I award this Thread.... *The Thread Of Honor *

Where all rider has expressed , and risen to their call, and spoke from thine heart.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

rudge66 said:


> *I think we all know he's going to ride 90% on the road*, and could have been better of with many another bike.


How do you know that? Do you have a crystal ball?


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## rudge66 (Apr 1, 2019)

Lombard said:


> How do you know that? Do you have a crystal ball?


Lives in Jersey City metro area... Gravel Out back mining trails. Nahhh...


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

rudge66 said:


> Lives in Jersey City metro area... Gravel Out back mining trails. Nahhh...


You are assuming he will never leave Jersey City? You know there are dirt rail trails within 1 hour drive, don't you? 

Regardless, you are doubling down and forcing the issue because everybody in the thread disagreed with you and the OP took our advice, not yours. You obviously cannot handle that psychologically.


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## tinball (Sep 24, 2014)

Mantrain, 

As a Trek 5200 owner, I would agree on the dead wood statement. Don't take that wrong, being able to tell the difference is also a function of experience. It's just that you haven't ridden other bikes to be able to make that comparison. If you get on a more modern bike, you may be able to tell the difference (some people not so much). It doesn't make the 5200 a bad bike, just a different one. The bike doesn't give the feedback that my other bikes give that I much, much prefer. 

Regarding the new bike....

1st thing I would do is get your measurements to determine (generally) what size bike would fit you appropriately. There are several sites that will help you get the general measurements. It's easier if you have someone to help you but it's possible solo with a tape measure, a 24" or longer level, and a solid (non-carpet floor). Competitive Cyclist has an excellent one that walks you through each measurement. https://www.competitivecyclist.com/Store/catalog/fitCalculatorBike.jsp


Once you have those measurements, you will have a better idea where your body type will sit. You also need to consider your flexibility and core strength. Can you hold a plank (push-up position) for at least 30 seconds? If you cannot bend over at the waist and touch your toes without bending at your knees or hold the plank position I mentioned earlier, I would be hesitant to purchase a pure race bike frame with a low stack height - unless you are committed to correcting your lack of flexibility and core strength. Otherwise, I lean more towards an endurance geometry with higher stack and shorter reach. Good example to see the differences would be the Canyon Endurace (endurance) vs the Canyon Aeroad (aero race). Look at the geometry differences between the 2 to see what I'm talking about as they have a good amount of difference to clearly see. Trek Domane vs Madone would be another good comparison to see the difference I'm talking about. 

The bike you linked to, has low end components, unknown warranty. Plus looking at the geometry, the sizing is a bit wonky. The XL would be a M/54 in a lot of other brands at 54.3cm effective top tube. It's also more of a race geo. I almost feel as if it's a women's specific frame with those numbers. I would look at something like the Pros Closet before going to Amazon if you are dead set on ordering and not getting it through a reputable LBS (not the one in your original post I hope). The Pros Closet has a 54 - 2018 KHS Flite 700 with carbon frame, Tiagra 10spd, condition as new for 1263.99. Has a warranty, been inspected, and has an 18 mo buyback (with conditions) guarantee. Much better option for hardly any more money IMO. https://www.theproscloset.com/products/khs-flite-700-road-bike-2018-54cm-3

EDIT: It should be clear the above is just an example and I'm not saying to buy it. You need to be sure of your size before even considering what bike to purchase.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

No offense to Sora. That is what I have on my $450 Motobecane Super Mirage, going strong since 2002. [I need to update my profile. I was on the Bianchi Eros for a while and am now on a Lemon Etape. But the Moto still works great, and my son is riding it.]

But Sora is the entry level Shimano. That is a tip-off that the bike is overall not as impressive as its wild color scheme.


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