# Astana 9



## Gall (Feb 6, 2004)

Hello all...

I am bummed because ... well just because. 

http://www.astana-cyclingteam.com/

gall


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## Beethoven (Jul 28, 2005)

No *******...


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## QUiTSPiNiNArOuND (Mar 15, 2002)

No Slovenian TT Champ, Jani. Disappointed.


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## bljacobs (Feb 2, 2009)

I understand about Horner.... just not there with is injury. too much risk...

But no Jani?!?!?!?!?!?


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## Lumbergh (Aug 19, 2005)

Poor Levi - always a bridesmaid...


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## Asiago (Jan 28, 2004)

Lance can't be happy, except for Levi, he hasn't got any true supporters.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Bah. Horner was one of the only riders on that team that animates a race. His presence will be missed, that's for sure.


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## wildwood (Mar 7, 2008)

I would have guessed LA would have made sure the ******* was on the team. Maybe
his form isnt there yet.....I was looking forward to watching Horner....


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

bljacobs said:


> I understand about Horner.... just not there with is injury. too much risk...
> 
> But no Jani?!?!?!?!?!?


No Rubiera, either.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

i, too, was looking forward to horner. especially during the radio silent stages.


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## toronto-rider (Aug 16, 2002)

It seems like they had to give a place to one local boy (Kazak) to keep the sponsors happy, otherwise would have been either Horner or Yani.

Horner and Dave Z were the best in 2007 when Velonews would do interviews with them during the TDF.

Horner will be back to support Levi/Contador in the Veulta.


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## ProRoad (Oct 13, 2008)

yeah, that's bs, Im boycotting the tour... ok maybe not but I really like Horner.

Must have been a tough one this year for Bruyneel.

Brian


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

Asiago said:


> Lance can't be happy, except for Levi, he hasn't got any true supporters.


don't think for a minute Bruyneel actually made the selections on his own...


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## bobinvirginia (Apr 14, 2006)

Do others feel that Noval (a Contador "loyalist") and Horner ( a Lance "loyalist") were left off the team to try to decrease the chance for alliances within the team forming. I, too, am upset that Horner was left off the team. Not only a great rider, one of the best tacticians on the road.


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

I really wanted to watch Horner after his Giro performance. I just don't think he has recovered.


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## Andrew1 (May 27, 2009)

Lots of Horner fans here! I'm really disappointed that he's off. Is it mandatory that they start one Kazakh rider?


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

bobinvirginia said:


> Do others feel that Noval (a Contador "loyalist") and Horner ( a Lance "loyalist") were left off the team to try to decrease the chance for alliances within the team forming. I, too, am upset that Horner was left off the team. Not only a great rider, one of the best tacticians on the road.


I wouldn't necessarily consider Horner a loyalist to anybody except Bruyneel.

Although Lance and ******* seem to be getting along fine, in the past there have been questions about their relationship. Horner was one of the best American riders to never have been on Postal and it's been suggested that Lance was behind that omission. Who know though?


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## dave_gt (Jul 25, 2008)

There is no question it involves AC politics. A local Khazak entry HAD to be made and JB just could not do more to help Lance. Shame that the results of the Tour will already be slanted toward AC BEFORE they even turn the pedals a single revolution! Shame on them all and to think that if AC wins, it would be a false win.

AC has all the talent in the world as well as a bright future. But he has no class or maturity...as evidenced by his jealousy of LA. Pity.


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

wtf...did people really expect horner back?


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## toronto-rider (Aug 16, 2002)

Andrew1 said:


> Lots of Horner fans here! I'm really disappointed that he's off. Is it mandatory that they start one Kazakh rider?


Definitely not mandatory, but when your main sponsor is the local government and they just bailed the team out for 6mill to cover the rest of the season, I would think Bruneel hands were tied.

Otherwise AC should have no problem with the help of Kloden, Zabelda, Levi and yes Armstrong. Watch when the 1st big mountain finish, there is no one that can match the explosive kick that AC has. Yes Armstong 2004 and before, but unfortunately age does catch up with us.

I know we want a big internal fight with Astan, but I dont think its going to happen. Either way, I think this will be the 1st time since 2005 that all the best riders are competing and should produce a great race.

I hope Boonen competes as I am looking forward to a great battle with Cav, although I dont think anyone can compete with Cav or his lead out train.

Overall very excited to see the race.


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## bljacobs (Feb 2, 2009)

> wtf...did people really expect horner back?


Exactly...


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

toronto-rider said:


> Horner will be back to support Levi/Contador in the Veulta.


Horner may well be riding the Vuelta but don't count on Leipheimer doing three Grand Tours in a year! Contador is not yet decided on the Vuelta, last I read.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

dave_gt said:


> There is no question it involves AC politics. A local Khazak entry HAD to be made and JB just could not do more to help Lance. Shame that the results of the Tour will already be slanted toward AC BEFORE they even turn the pedals a single revolution! Shame on them all and to think that if AC wins, it would be a false win.
> 
> AC has all the talent in the world as well as a bright future. But he has no class or maturity...as evidenced by his jealousy of LA. Pity.


And the way AC stuck pins in his LA Doll to make him break his collar bone and bribed the TdF organisers to make a route that suited him and hasn't been psyched out by LA's mind games was really sneaky.
But worst of all is the entertaining way he races. He looks like he loves racing and as we all know from watching the Lord Lance over the years - Ride It Like You Hate It!


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## vandalbob (Dec 13, 2001)

*Interesting (non) selections*

I too am bummed that Horner won't be there. Perhaps his non-selection also shows how strong overall the team is and they don't need him?


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## sometimerider (Sep 21, 2007)

wildwood said:


> I would have guessed LA would have made sure the ******* was on the team. Maybe
> his form isnt there yet.....I was looking forward to watching Horner....


When Lance was asked (via Twitter) why he didn't ensure a spot for Horner, he responded:

_Believe me, I tried. This is not 2004 or 2005. I'm not the leader of the team. Horner is the man and we'll miss him. Period._


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

dave_gt said:


> There is no question it involves AC politics. A local Khazak entry HAD to be made and JB just could not do more to help Lance. Shame that the results of the Tour will already be slanted toward AC BEFORE they even turn the pedals a single revolution! Shame on them all and to think that if AC wins, it would be a false win.
> 
> AC has all the talent in the world as well as a bright future. But he has no class or maturity...as evidenced by his jealousy of LA. Pity.


Let's see AC is 27, has won all the GT's (the last 3 he's raced), and is considered the best GT rider around right now. Why wouldn't you set up your team to support that guy? Wouldn't you slant your team to the guy that has the best chance of winning?

LA is 38, been away from the sport, been injured, and wasn't able to hang with the big boys in the mountains at the Giro. Setting up your team around LA is a much bigger gamble. 

If you're trying to win it, smart money is on AC, with LA as a backup plan. Personally, I think AC has good reason to be po'd that LA reappeared.


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## Tugboat (Jul 17, 2006)

moonmoth said:


> Horner may well be riding the Vuelta but don't count on Leipheimer doing three Grand Tours in a year! Contador is not yet decided on the Vuelta, last I read.


I'm really surprised that Levi was a starter for the Tour. He was completely shot by the end of the Giro and given the depth in the Astana squad would have thought it more reasonable to rest him in July and have him work towards the Vuelta. I pick that Levi will struggle in this year's Tour and will be lucky to finish inside the top 20... and it'll pretty much be the end of his season.

The Vuelta will be a team based around AC (if he chooses to ride it) and Kloden.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

They had to let a Kazak ride the Tour. Zubeldia, Popo, Kloden will take care of them.


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

dagger said:


> They had to let a Kazak ride the Tour.


Yep, this could have even been part of the negotiations in getting the Kazakh sponsors to pay up!


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## JohnnyChance (Dec 13, 2006)

How many grand tours does Johan have now? I think he knows how to pick a winning team.


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

JohnnyChance said:


> How many grand tours does Johan have now?


I understand the question was probably rhetorical, but is eleven the answer?

Armstrong: 7
Contador: 3
Savoldelli: 1

Any more?


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## sometimerider (Sep 21, 2007)

moonmoth said:


> I understand the question was probably rhetorical, but is eleven the answer?
> 
> Armstrong: 7
> Contador: 3
> ...


Heras: 1 (under JB)


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## JohnnyChance (Dec 13, 2006)

moonmoth said:


> I understand the question was probably rhetorical, but is eleven the answer?
> 
> Armstrong: 7
> Contador: 3
> ...


It was rhetorical, but I also wasn't sure the exact number. I also came up with 11 in my head, and his wikipedia page didn't specify, so I just left it as a rhetorical with no answer.  

Oh, yeah, forgot about Roberto. 

Either way, its a shi-ton more than all of us combined.


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## swuzzlebubble (Aug 4, 2008)

Could all the public comment be aimed at getting everyone prepared for LA to ride his own race.
So the perception when he does it is “just as we expected” rather than “he shouldn’t be doing that”?
If the public persona of Astana was a united team behind AC, then LA might be seen in bad light should he make his own moves.


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## fab4 (Jan 8, 2003)

Alberto Contador is a weak champion. If he thinks he's the best then he doesn't have to worry about anybody in the team beating him in the tour. Not Lance, not Levi, not Klodi. Contador is so insecure. He's off to another team next year and will never win another grand tour without Johan Bruneel directing him.


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

Hoping AC lights up LA on the first mtn day and ends this madness.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

godot said:


> Hoping AC lights up LA on the first mtn day and ends this madness.


 My 'dream-scenario'? Contador repeatedly attacking. Everyone but Lance gets shelled. Contador doing his 'often-mentioned' sharp accelerations..time after time but Lance clawing back to his wheel, all alone so everyone won't be saying "What the heck is he doing, dragging everyone out after his "Team Leader" and at the end of a few of Mt. top finishes, maybe Lance can favor Sr. Contador with another "The Look"...

Sure..right.


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## peter1 (Apr 10, 2002)

Yes, Astana needed a Kazakh, and since Vino is, um, unavailable...

Even so, looking at the roster I'm not sure what Horner could have added. He's not quite a rouleur, and I think there's more than enough firepower for the mountains. 

Levi looks a bit burned out, but I think he's in there to be a super-domestique for just one of the big stages. Kloden, hmmm...seems risky, but if he's clean, he's also podium material.

I assume the decision came down to Popo vs. Horner, and while Popo hasn't proven to be a GT contender, on his best day I think he's better (and about 10 years younger.). 

So, tough for Chris, but I'm hoping for a big Vuelta.

I think the leadership is clearly AC's to lose. As much as I'm rooting for Lance, Contador is simply better right now. If AC falters, it could just as easily be Levi or Kloden who picks up the torch.


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## fab4 (Jan 8, 2003)

Where's Checu Rubiera?


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

peter1 said:


> Even so, looking at the roster I'm not sure what Horner could have added. He's not quite a rouleur, and I think there's more than enough firepower for the mountains.
> ...
> I assume the decision came down to Popo vs. Horner, and while Popo hasn't proven to be a GT contender, on his best day I think he's better (and about 10 years younger.).
> 
> So, tough for Chris, but I'm hoping for a big Vuelta.


I agree with the assessment, but can't agree with the conclusion. Horner brings a sort of intangible extra quality that doesn't show in the power numbers or times on a big climb.

When Horner is in the race, somebody close to him wins. 

JSR


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## Nimitz (Jul 8, 2004)

fab4 said:


> Where's Checu Rubiera?


this....

Chad


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

I guess they are saving Horner for the Vuelta. Levi will be far too cooked by then. I see Horner being the chief for Contador at that time.


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## Rosicky (Mar 30, 2005)

Well I`m sure Brajkovic and Klöden will be there too


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

moabbiker said:


> I guess they are saving Horner for the Vuelta. I see Horner being the chief for Contador at that time.


I predict Contador will not ride the Vuelta, leaving Horner to ride for his pal Brajkovič, who has had some previous success there. And that will be the end of Chris Horner with Astana.


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## athletic91 (May 28, 2009)

ignore if its a dumb comment...

well i think LA has a good number of friends in other teams who might help him in tdf, cos they are also fans of him.

on a sidenote, may i ask who is team columbia leader?


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## godot (Feb 3, 2004)

athletic91 said:


> ignore if its a dumb comment...
> 
> well i think LA has a good number of friends in other teams who might help him in tdf, cos they are also fans of him.
> 
> on a sidenote, may i ask who is team columbia leader?


The opposite may also hold true. LA is sure to have a few non-fans in the peloton, that would work against him. Similar to the Giro that Cuengo won because a lot guys couldn't stand Simoni.


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## Nimitz (Jul 8, 2004)

moonmoth said:


> I predict Contador will not ride the Vuelta, leaving Horner to ride for his pal Brajkovič, who has had some previous success there. And that will be the end of Chris Horner with Astana.


don't need to worry about that with this year being the end of Astana.

Chad


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

athletic91 said:


> on a sidenote, may i ask who is team columbia leader?


Hincapie says that Kim Kirchen is the designated Columbia leader for the Tour.


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## Sasquatch (Feb 3, 2004)

Horner should quit whining. It wasn't politics that "got" him. It was common sense. 

Contador is the leader, and the leader has every right to choose Paulinho over Horner. Put yourself in ACs position. Would you pick Horner, a Lance bud, over Sergio your bud? Assuming both guys are equally good (which is not true because Paulinho is better!).


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

Sasquatch said:


> (which is not true because Paulinho is better!).


Oh, dude, don't be baggin' on Horner! He's one of my favorite riders. IMHO, he's everthing that Jens Voigt or George Hincapie is.

Sergio Paulinho? Who's he? 

JSR


(preemtive-reactive strike: I know who he is. He's a fine rider. He's just not Chris Horner.)


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## fab4 (Jan 8, 2003)

Horner is not going to do the Vuelta either. Contador will pick his boys, i.e., Hernandez, Paulinho, Navarro, Noval to support him. Rubiera, Zubeldia and Brajkovic and one Kazak will fill the roster. Horner to Rock Racing next year.


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

They *HAD* to add a Kazak rider! 
So im picturing a guy with a unitard and a black mustache that was sent by the honorable Kazac gov't to the TDF "to make benefit glorious nation of Kazhakstan (sp?)." 
Really though, is he at least serviceable?
It does sound like it came down to #9- Pauhlino v. Horner, and AC picked. I will happily root against him now, its more fun to have a villain anyway. Horner has been a rock in recent Tours, there's not much he cant do. Nothing would bring me more joy than seeing serg gasping for air as AC is alone on a climb. I cant wait for the frickin TOUR!!!


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## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

fab4 said:


> Horner to Rock Racing next year.


Nothing against Rock but I hope he has higher ambitions than that, so that he can continue to ride in the big Euro races.


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## ping771 (Apr 10, 2006)

No offense to the riders on the Rock Racing team, but that the team image and Michael Ball just oozes "Guido", Eurotrash, and too much Paco Rabanne cologne. Cippo's brief association with the team just supports that image too. 

Astana I bet will not exist in its current form by the end of the year.


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## Jeff G (Jul 22, 2005)

Now you have to factor in the latest news about Vino coming back. I am concerned that the team will be divided amongst AC and LA and this division will leave both of them looking at the podium in Paris from the sidelines. Its true the AC has a better shot at winning, and JB has given the standard line about the team supporting whoever is the strongest rider, I just think his formula may not work this year. With Vinokorov's latest ramblings I'd bet Astana doesn't even exist till the end of the season if the Kazakhs force Bruyneel out. Looks like the birth of the Livestrong/Trek team may come sooner then we think.


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## shirt (Nov 13, 2001)

No one's more disappointed about Horner's absence than me (other than Horner himself, of course.) I've trained with the guy and he's a true mensch.

But I've got to say: No Chechu Rubiera? Who's going to blow the peloton apart on the lower slopes? Gregory Freaking *RAST*?? Is there some Swiss political pressure going on here? Plus, Spaniard or not, I'd guess Chechu would be *very* loyal to Lance if it came down to an internecine squabble.

And Noval's off, too? I don't get it. I guess you've got to have one Kazakh on a Kazakh team, but missing those two makes me wonder why they didn't just put Johan in shorts and tell him to pedal hard.


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## kef3844 (May 30, 2008)

fab4 said:


> Alberto Contador is a weak champion. If he thinks he's the best then he doesn't have to worry about anybody in the team beating him in the tour. Not Lance, not Levi, not Klodi. Contador is so insecure. He's off to another team next year and will never win another grand tour without Johan Bruneel directing him.



You don't get it do you. LA always had a united team around him to HELP him win the tour. Who set the pace for him in the wind, up the climbs?? his teamates.. AC deserves the same devotion, he is currently the better rider. 

I think JB's strength is not his ability to direct the top gc rider but to ensure the rest of the team does what needs to be done to support him.


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