# Tour of Long Valley



## icarus

Anbody doing the Tour of Long Valley next Sunday? Has anyone done it in the past. I registered for the metric century. It'll be my first metric century. I've done a 55 mile ride before but not with over 3500ft gain. Today I went out and did part of the course just to see how it is. Didn't follow the whole course but I did do 3500ft in 40 miles. I guess I'm ready. Just wondering if anyone else's experiences with this ride.


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## merckxman

Leave something in the tank for near the end, at 59.2 miles there is Naughright Road which is going to surprise some people as they will be tired by then.


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## AlanE

merckxman said:


> Leave something in the tank for near the end, at 59.2 miles there is Naughright Road which is going to surprise some people as they will be tired by then.


Yeah, no kidding. When I looked at the route, I thought someone has a diabolical sense of humor throwing that climb in at the end.


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## tednugent

....just the 20


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## NJgreyhead

Thanks for the heads-up.
I hope to be there.


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## icarus

You guys weren't kidding about Naughtright. I've driven on it many times, but rode up it the first time this afternoon. There are 2 sections that are over 15%. I'm definitely going to have to pace myself for this ride.


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## NJgreyhead

Oh man, that was a real mutha for this flatlander. 
But I did not have to dismount and walk, tho it was iffy several times.
Glad I put a 12-30 cassette on with the compact double.

Noticed my 2007 Fuji Roubaix was one of the most downscale rides there.

Prolly be back next year.
Thanks (I think.)
-NJg


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## tednugent

last year, the ride started going down E. springtown..... maybe too many incidents???


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## NJBiker72

NJgreyhead said:


> Oh man, that was a real mutha for this flatlander.
> But I did not have to dismount and walk, tho it was iffy several times.
> Glad I put a 12-30 cassette on with the compact double.
> 
> Noticed my 2007 Fuji Roubaix was one of the most downscale rides there.
> 
> Prolly be back next year.
> Thanks (I think.)
> -NJg


Congrats. Looks like a fun ride.


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## veloduffer

Naughtright was not pleasant. I had a ligament (or tendon) issue for the past two weeks and started cramping around mile 40. I fought off cramps on the climb and was thankful for my 29T cog on my Campy cassette. I pushed the injury too hard and probably should have not ridden (result is couple of weeks rest).


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## NJgreyhead

I hear you. At one point, going up Naughtright at the bend I was going so slow and wobbling so much (toe-overlapping), I crossed into the oncoming car lane, and there was an oncoming car just up the road. Fortunately I was able to wobble back to my side without making it too close. 
Then where that first climb just about levels out, I wobbled into a parked Subaru (but only with my arm, no metal-to-metal contact or scratching).

Not good. 

At mile 55, a marshall was saying "20 or 40 miles?" and pointing to a right turn. I smiled and said mock-sadly, "No, 62." and he said something encouraging and pointed for me to continue straight.
Next time I think I may take that right turn. It would be prudent, let's say.

Also, I found it amusing how some of the marshalls and folks handing out water bottles by the roadside, etc, were in orange volunteer T-shirts, but you could just tell they were cops. (The PBA was one of the beneficiaries, and got one of those oversized checks for $3,500 at the end.)


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## jsedlak

I did fine... but what was with the 5000+ ft of climbing on a 3000ft claimed course.

I opened up the taps early for Marty's and then soon realized we were in for a long day and backed off completely.


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## robdamanii

jsedlak said:


> I did fine... but what was with the 5000+ ft of climbing on a 3000ft claimed course.
> 
> I opened up the taps early for Marty's and then soon realized we were in for a long day and backed off completely.


Let me guess:

They used Map My Ride which grossly underestimated the elevation gain?


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## jsedlak

robdamanii said:


> Let me guess:
> 
> They used Map My Ride which grossly underestimated the elevation gain?


Yup!

I never checked the profile... perhaps I should have. Or downloaded it into my Garmin.


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## robdamanii

jsedlak said:


> Yup!
> 
> I never checked the profile... perhaps I should have. Or downloaded it into my Garmin.


Pretty much anyone who uses MMR automatically gets their route redrawn in RWGPS before it goes into my garmin.

MMR sucks giant balls.


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## AlanE

Sounds like there was a little excitement on the TLV.

http://www.nj.com/hunterdon-county-democrat/index.ssf/2012/08/young_tewksbury_woman_says_bic.html

Check out the comments section.

BTW, I was nowhere near this. I was riding out in Warren County. I have witnesses.


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## NJBiker72

AlanE said:


> Sounds like there was a little excitement on the TLV.
> 
> http://www.nj.com/hunterdon-county-democrat/index.ssf/2012/08/young_tewksbury_woman_says_bic.html
> 
> Check out the comments section.
> 
> BTW, I was nowhere near this. I was riding out in Warren County. I have witnesses.


Sounds a little far fetched. Can't read the comments on mobile.


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## tednugent

AlanE said:


> Sounds like there was a little excitement on the TLV.
> 
> Young Tewksbury woman says bicyclists swarmed her car, screaming, cursing and beating on it | NJ.com
> 
> Check out the comments section.
> 
> BTW, I was nowhere near this. I was riding out in Warren County. I have witnesses.





NJBiker72 said:


> Sounds a little far fetched. Can't read the comments on mobile.


I did hear about a commotion of similar nature from one of the SAG drivers at TDLV... at the time, the organizers were trying to figure out if it was directly related to TDLV or not.


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## robdamanii

Kind of makes me want to find out who these asshats were and turn them in. That is absolutely inexcusable conduct under ANY circumstances.

Edit: From the description of the kits and the photos, looks like it may have been a Marty's group? I REALLY hope that's not the case, that would be horribly disappointing.


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## veloduffer

The story sounds a bit one-sided and kind of a stretch. I can't remember ever stopping in the middle of the road to hang out and talk - takes aways the reason for riding. And if such an incident did occur, was the driver really an innocent? I would imagine she must have done something dangerous to elicit that kind of response.

The comments on the story are always amusing, particularly the ones that don't think cyclists belong on the roads. Didn't they ride bikes when they were kids? And where did they ride these bikes - not too many sidewalks and paths in NJ? And where do they want their kids to ride bikes?


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## NJBiker72

AlanE said:


> Sounds like there was a little excitement on the TLV.
> 
> Young Tewksbury woman says bicyclists swarmed her car, screaming, cursing and beating on it | NJ.com
> 
> Check out the comments section.
> 
> BTW, I was nowhere near this. I was riding out in Warren County. I have witnesses.


Seriously unreal, ignorant comments.


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## AlanE

robdamanii said:


> From the description of the kits and the photos, looks like it may have been a Marty's group?


"Her alleged abusers — men in their late 40s — wore Spandex uniforms with shirts that were light blue on top and white on the bottom, with the colors separated diagonally, she said."

Clearly NOT a Marty's group. Their shirts are light blue on top and BLACK on the bottom. The white is in the middle.


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## jsedlak

robdamanii said:


> Kind of makes me want to find out who these asshats were and turn them in. That is absolutely inexcusable conduct under ANY circumstances.
> 
> Edit: From the description of the kits and the photos, looks like it may have been a Marty's group? I REALLY hope that's not the case, that would be horribly disappointing.


Don't think it was us.

We had a good showing for the 60 mile A group, but (a) all the guys that participated are incredibly nice and considerate and (b) there was no discussion about this at the after party. If it had happened, there definitely would have been talk about it, even slanted one-sided talk. But nothing was ever mentioned.

I won't suggest any other shops were at fault, but there are plenty of other groups out there with blue and white kits.


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## jmoryl

It would be interesting to hear the 'blue and white' side of the story. Wonder if anyone will step forward?


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## robdamanii

jsedlak said:


> Don't think it was us.
> 
> We had a good showing for the 60 mile A group, but (a) all the guys that participated are incredibly nice and considerate and (b) there was no discussion about this at the after party. If it had happened, there definitely would have been talk about it, even slanted one-sided talk. But nothing was ever mentioned.
> 
> I won't suggest any other shops were at fault, but there are plenty of other groups out there with blue and white kits.


Glad to hear that. I'd find it extremely hard to believe the Marty's guys would do such a thing, but I saw lots of those kits and they do fit the description. 

I was actually hoping you'd chime in on this and say no (since I know you're really close with them.) 

I'm just wondering who had such a large group out there...


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## jsedlak

Yeah - the front group was hammering as well, so I doubt they would have stopped to have a chat on the road. I'll double check though, I wasn't with them so I could be wrong (hope I'm not).

I can't think of any shop in the area that has blue and white with white on the bottom actually.


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## AlanE

jsedlak said:


> I won't suggest any other shops were at fault, but there are plenty of other groups out there with blue and white kits.


You just did.

Name another group with kits that are blue and white separated diagonally.

It sure sounds to me like the jerseys described by the "victim" are Marty's, but that certainly doesn't mean that everyone wearing a Marty's jersey was involved. And not everyone wearing a Marty's jersey represents the shop or the "team". I suspect that Marty's will sell one of their jerseys to anyone who wants to buy one. Just like any other shop.


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## NJBiker72

AlanE said:


> You just did.
> 
> Name another group with kits that are blue and white separated diagonally.
> 
> It sure sounds to me like the jerseys described by the "victim" are Marty's, but that certainly doesn't mean that everyone wearing a Marty's jersey was involved. And not everyone wearing a Marty's jersey represents the shop or the "team". I suspect that Marty's will sell one of their jerseys to anyone who wants to buy one. Just like any other shop.


It sounds a bit like Liberty. But it could even be the old Cranford ones? Or it could be as fabricated as the rest of the story sounds. 

Think about how big the lettering usually is. If she really wanted them to find these guys . . .


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## jsedlak

AlanE said:


> You just did.
> 
> Name another group with kits that are blue and white separated diagonally.
> 
> It sure sounds to me like the jerseys described by the "victim" are Marty's, but that certainly doesn't mean that everyone wearing a Marty's jersey was involved. And not everyone wearing a Marty's jersey represents the shop or the "team". I suspect that Marty's will sell one of their jerseys to anyone who wants to buy one. Just like any other shop.


I see what you mean, but I assure you I'm simply trying to avoid the situation of throwing other shops, teams, and kits under the bus. There are other kits with diagonal splits between blue and white. It, of course, could have been one of our members, or a handful. I don't know because I wasn't there. I have discussed it with a few who were in the fast group and they said nothing of the sort had happened to them.

And you are correct - the jersies are available for purchase by anyone.


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## Terex

That is extremely unfortunate. And, unfortunately, I've seen similar pack mentality, although not with that level of aggression. I've been on a group ride where riders pulled the same "we're bicycle riders, and we can block the road and chat if we feel like it" crap. I first asked them to move out of the road, and then told them, in no uncertain terms, just how eff'd up they all were and left the ride. And never rode with that group again.

Just like everything else in life, there is a level of personal responsibility when you get in a situation like that. Too bad no one had the balls to call out this particular group.

Oh, btw, that area is one of the nicest cycling areas in the whole country. I just love Rockaway Road. I'm totally pissed that a group of self absorbed idiots would do something to ruin it for the rest of us.


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## robdamanii

Terex said:


> That is extremely unfortunate. And, unfortunately, I've seen similar pack mentality, although not with that level of aggression. I've been on a group ride where riders pulled the same "we're bicycle riders, and we can block the road and chat if we feel like it" crap. I first asked them to move out of the road, and then told them, in no uncertain terms, just how eff'd up they all were and left the ride. And never rode with that group again.
> 
> Just like everything else in life, there is a level of personal responsibility when you get in a situation like that. Too bad no one had the balls to call out this particular group.
> 
> Oh, btw, that area is one of the nicest cycling areas in the whole country. I just love Rockaway Road. I'm totally pissed that a group of self absorbed idiots would do something to ruin it for the rest of us.


Very true. I ride that road at least once a week, and now I'll probably think twice about it when I'm riding out there. Sucks to have to look over your shoulder every time you ride.


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## merckxman

100+ event photos here:
100 Photos! 659 Cyclists 'Tour' Long Valley - Long Valley, NJ Patch


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## tednugent

jsedlak said:


> I see what you mean, but I assure you I'm simply trying to avoid the situation of throwing other shops, teams, and kits under the bus. There are other kits with diagonal splits between blue and white. It, of course, could have been one of our members, or a handful. I don't know because I wasn't there. I have discussed it with a few who were in the fast group and they said nothing of the sort had happened to them.
> 
> And you are correct - the jersies are available for purchase by anyone.


Whether it's Team marty's (.. that's the first jersey I thought of when I read the article)... or not (good thing I still wear their older Team Marty's "Pink Jersey").... it puts the shop and the rest of the cycling community in a bad light.


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## jsedlak

Feel free to check out our Strava data. If one of us (or someone else) was involved, there would be a noticeable drop in speed/hr/data. When autopause kicks in, Strava data presents a slanted line across the gap with no ticks in between the stop and start points.

You can see one such gap at 2 : 23 : 26 on my ride - I think I stopped for some water at the top of the hill, IIRC.
Bike Ride Profile | Tour de Long Valley - 07/29/2012 Washington Township, NJ near Washington Township | Times and Records | Strava

HTH.


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## Montyaloofah

I spoke to someone that was in that group today. Apparently the Lexus tried to accelerate through the group to get by in a very dangerous fashion. The girl in this article was tailgating the lexus and tried the same maneuver but a bit slower. I understand the road was very narrow in that only 2 cars abreast could fit. As the girl tries forcing her way between the 2 groups of cyclists, she nearly runs some of them off the road. The cyclists that were alongside her started banging the car because of the danger she put them in. That's what i heard. It's extremely rare for cyclists hammering in opposite directions have a stop and chat.


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## NJBiker72

Montyaloofah said:


> I spoke to someone that was in that group today. Apparently the Lexus tried to accelerate through the group to get by in a very dangerous fashion. The girl in this article was tailgating the lexus and tried the same maneuver but a bit slower. I understand the road was very narrow in that only 2 cars abreast could fit. As the girl tries forcing her way between the 2 groups of cyclists, she nearly runs some of them off the road. The cyclists that were alongside her started banging the car because of the danger she put them in. That's what i heard. It's extremely rare for cyclists hammering in opposite directions have a stop and chat.


This makes a lot more sense. 

Then she files a police report so she can get damage covered under insurance but purposefully misstated it and claims to not remember the jersey so that witnesses will not be found to contradict her fabrication.


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## Terex

NJBiker72 said:


> *This makes a lot more sense*.
> 
> Then she files a police report so she can get damage covered under insurance but purposefully misstated it and claims to not remember the jersey so that witnesses will not be found to contradict her fabrication.


Doesn't make more sense than calling the cops and pressing charges instead of taking the law into their own hands. I wouldn't want to be around any of these guys when they're driving.


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## NJBiker72

Terex said:


> Doesn't make more sense than calling the cops and pressing charges instead of taking the law into their own hands. I wouldn't want to be around any of these guys when they're driving.


I don't know. Someone runs you off the road. Threatening your life. 

You hit their car? 

Wow. What animals.


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## Terex

NJBiker72 said:


> I don't know. Someone runs you off the road. Threatening your life.
> 
> You hit their car?
> 
> Wow. What animals.


Right doesn't change. Your logic usually obtains when motorists are posting about bicyclists.


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## NJBiker72

Terex said:


> Right doesn't change. Your logic usually obtains when motorists are posting about bicyclists.


No one said it is th right thing to do but who does not get emotional when nearly run over by some idiot that probably is running late to a nail appointment. 

Plus. Then she lies about the incident and gets more idiots filed up against cyclists. Just so she can commit insurance fraud.


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## goldsbar

How wide was the line of cyclists? Bet it wasn't single file on this claimed narrow stretch of road. Maybe it was but with 20+ years of riding experience my bet is not. Somehow group-think always takes over and a bunch of guys in spandex - I own plenty of it - think they have the right to clog up the whole lane. I've been in 100 rider racing fields that at least obey the yellow line rule. On the other hand, I've seen many a person on one of these group rides cross the yellow line on blind corners.


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## tednugent

He said she said.. either way... the rest of the public tends to be against us.....

To play Devil's Advocate

Technically, when there are cars approaching from behind us... we are supposed to be in single file to let cars pass.



> *39:4-14.2, 39:4-10.11 Operating Regulations*.
> Every person riding a bicycle on a roadway shall ride as near to the right roadside as practicable exercising due care when passing a standing vehicle or one proceeding in the same direction. A bicyclist may move left under any of the following conditions: 1) To make a left turn from a left turn lane or pocket; 2) To avoid debris, drains, or other hazardous conditions on the right; 3) To pass a slower moving vehicle; 4) To occupy any available lane when traveling at the same speed as other traffic; 5) *To travel no more than two abreast when traffic is not impeded, but otherwise ride in single file.* Every person riding a bicycle shall ride in the same direction as vehicular traffic.
> 
> In New Jersey, the law states a bicyclist must obey all state and local automobile driving laws. A parent may be held responsible for the child’s violation of any traffic law.


When I'm in my car... driving the a lot of times, narrow/curvy roads of Sussex county... a lot of times, people in their groups don't ride single file when a car is approaching them... I don't exactly get pissed... always been tempted to take a photo though....

Remember... this ain't Critical Mass. A lot of people on RBR are critical of the Critical Mass... but the do it themselves, but rationalize differently to suit their needs when they are out in training rides and/or riding in groups.


in the end... regardless of story... negative press makes all of us, especially the various organizers of the events, look bad


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## stoked

NJBiker72 said:


> I don't know. Someone runs you off the road. Threatening your life.
> 
> You hit their car?
> 
> Wow. What animals.


I agree with you on this. Few tons of sheet metal in angry hands VS. less than 200lbs of human/bike combo. 

Hmmm... couple of hundred dollar worth of dents / less resale value on a car vs a thrashed bike or worst a dead cyclist, another statistic. Drivers just need to be more patient and bikers need to ride single file when needed.


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## Bee-an-key

Bottom line is both parties felt threatened and did what they thought was right and appropriate. Probably both sides had some right and wrong. I ride the road all the time and it would not take a lot to block traffic, were the cyclists being respectful of the residents? Did the drivers do the right thing, maybe they were reckless and used no common sense when coming upon the bottleneck. In the end it is bad for all of us, don't want anyone harmed and don't want towns to restrict organized rides in the area. For TOLV it really damages their reputation wrongfully and hurts the Ramble, Matheny etc. I see riders doing dangerous things every day where I live, it only makes it worse for me.


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## NJgreyhead

Monty, were either or both of the groups riding the TdLV?
Thx.


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## Montyaloofah

The guy i spoke to was doing the TDLV. He said the group coming from the other side looked like Liberty guys..


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## mscotti

*Tdlv*

I am the one investigating the incident and would love to talk to those who witnessed the incident or may have been involved. I am sure there are two sides to the story. I can be reached at Tewksbury Township Police 908-439-2503. 

:mad2:


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## NJBiker72

mscotti said:


> I am the one investigating the incident and would love to talk to those who witnessed the incident or may have been involved. I am sure there are two sides to the story. I can be reached at Tewksbury Township Police 908-439-2503.
> 
> :mad2:


Welcome to the forum. No information but it os good to hear someone is looking into this and talking it seriously. 

Whatever the true story is, the way it was presented is not good for cyclists. Too many angry drivers already. 

If this happened the way it was reported, I would be glad to see the offenders apprehended. 

If it happened differently, as I would suspect, I look forward to that being brought to light. 

Good luck.


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## AlanE

The noose is tightening.

http://www.nj.com/hunterdon-county-democrat/index.ssf/2012/08/tewksbury_police_still_investi.html


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## merckxman

Suspects, sponsoring group identified in cyclists' attack on Tewksbury woman's car - New Jersey Hills Newspaper: Hunterdon Review News

Suspects, sponsoring group identified in cyclists' attack on Tewksbury woman's car

By CAMILLA SOMERS, Editor | Posted: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 12:09 pm

TEWKSBURY TWP. - Several of the bicyclists involved in the attack of a young township woman's car late last month have been identified, police announced this morning, and the woman and her family have confirmed that a New Jersey bicycle shop, Marty's Reliable Cycle, was the offending bikers' sponsoring organization.

In a statement, township police did not name the cyclists who have been implicated in the attack thus far, adding only that the investigation is ongoing and charges are pending.

The police department's announcement comes after a Township Committee meeting last night where the young woman involved in the attack, Jackie Olsen, and her parents Ken and Andrea Olsen implored committee members to implement a policy that might prevent such an assault from occurring again.

The incident took place Sunday, July 29 when Olsen, 20, was reportedly driving on Rockaway Road to her parents’ house in Oldwick and a group of bikers heading towards each other from different directions stopped along the road to talk to one another.

After she sounded her horn, several members of the group allegedly attacked her vehicle and others yelled at her while making obscene gestures.

The cyclists reportedly fled the scene when they saw Olsen reach for her phone to call 911, but not before breaking her rearview mirror, leaving a slight dent in the side of the car and covering the vehicle in handprints.

"She was destroyed, we were outraged," said Ken Olsen at Tuesday's meeting. "What happened to Jackie should not happen to anyone in any town in any country."

According to the Olsens, the cyclists were wearing blue-and-white matching jerseys that day with the Marty's Reliable Cycle name across the front. The bikers were reportedly participating in a large racing event.

Marty's, which has locations in Morristown, Randolph and Hackettstown, is among a number of groups in the state who organize and sponsor cycling races and events, both formal and informal.

And that's where part of the problem lies in regulating bicyclists, who by law are obligated to follow the same traffic regulations as motorists and ride single file along the roadway.

The Olsen family asked committee members Tuesday if the township can require cyclists in races to register with the township and have the sponsoring organization pay Tewksbury a registration fee as a means of identifying and discouraging inappropriate or aggressive riding behavior.

However, "They're organized, but they're not," said Township Attorney Michael Selvaggi of cycling events. Many groups of bikers go out on informal rides, which the township cannot regulate, he explained, and even for formalized racing events, if they do not begin or end in the township but only pass through, it would be very difficult to enforce any kind of municipal regulation on the riders.

"It's very problematic," said Selvaggi, who added that much of the problem falls to the police department to enforce existing traffic rules.

Mayor Dana Desiderio, however, explained that she had gone to Tewksbury Police Chief Thomas Holmes about the problem, who explained that when police do pull riders over, the cyclists sometimes claim they do not have identification on them and give officers fake information, meaning, "There's no way to give them a ticket."

Selvaggi recommended the Olsens consider pressing charges, either civil or criminal, on the riders involved in the attack. "Sometimes that's the best way to get these guys to change their ways," he said.

The attorney also suggested the family contact their state legislators because "this is not a Tewksbury issue," he said, but a regional or statewide one.

Ultimately, committee members decided to identify and send a letter to the main cycling organizers in the region explaining that “Tewksbury takes these matters very seriously” and that bikers’ failure to abide by laws could result in criminal charges. In addition, the committee said it would request prior notice of racing events going through the township.

Following the meeting, when asked whether his family planned on pressing charges of any kind, Ken Olsen said they were awaiting the police department’s final report.

Either way, though, “I have a daughter who was victimized here,” he said. “Someone’s going to pay.”


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## Montyaloofah

I hope the truth comes out. We are just hearing and reacting to the girl's side of the story here. If they identified some riders, they should be able to provide their side of the incident. Either way, be very careful and diligent when riding through Tewksbury. I will be this weekend...


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## robdamanii

This is going to be interesting. 

She has no material witnesses as to her actions prior to the "assault" on her vehicle, while presumably these cyclists have upwards of a dozen witnesses.

They are appealing to Tewksbury council to enact legislation? Sounds like they're a bit afraid of taking this to court in the event some other evidence comes to light. Did she put someone in danger? Was she exceeding the speed limit (common on Rockaway Road?) I wonder what she did that provoked a group of riders...

Something smells fishy.

Either way, be careful riding through there, everyone. It's a regular road on my routes and I'll be exercising caution.


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## jsedlak

Wow....


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## tednugent

sure we are only hearing one side of it...

the cyclists involved need to come out of hiding. their silence hurts the rest of us cyclists


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## NJBiker72

robdamanii said:


> This is going to be interesting.
> 
> She has no material witnesses as to her actions prior to the "assault" on her vehicle, while presumably these cyclists have upwards of a dozen witnesses.
> 
> They are appealing to Tewksbury council to enact legislation? Sounds like they're a bit afraid of taking this to court in the event some other evidence comes to light. Did she put someone in danger? Was she exceeding the speed limit (common on Rockaway Road?) I wonder what she did that provoked a group of riders...
> 
> Something smells fishy.
> 
> Either way, be careful riding through there, everyone. It's a regular road on my routes and I'll be exercising caution.


Agree. This does not seem right. And i think we are hearing a very contrived story. Still we should be careful. This is unneeded for the cycling community.


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## merckxman

It's getting worse:

Tewksbury Police: We have suspects in bicycle mob investigation
TEWKSBURY TWP. — From a municipal governmental standpoint, there appears to be little that can be done to control bicycling activities on public roads.

The problem is not limited to Tewksbury Township, but an altercation between a motorist and a group of cyclists led the Township Committee to discuss the matter at its meeting on Aug. 14.

Jackie Olsen, 20, of Tewksbury said that about 30 men with bicycles allegedly blocking Rockaway Road went wild when she honked her horn twice trying to get through on July 29.

Tewksbury police reported on Aug. 15 that some individuals have since been identified but no charges have yet been filed.

The matter is still under investigation.

There was one major organized bike ride that day and Olsen said she heard there were two other groups conducting rides. Organizers of the Tour de Long Valley said they did not believe the perpetrators were participants in that event.

Olsen and her family came to the Township Committee meeting to see if something could be done to prevent similar incidents from happening in the future.

The cyclists were using public roads, Township Attorney Mike Selvaggi said. Cyclists have the same rights as motorists when using public roads but they also have the same responsibilities. “You can’t license them. Maybe police can regulate better, not that they are doing a bad job,” Selvaggi said.

“It is very problematic in these rural parts,” Selvaggi said, noting that a popular cycling web site touts Sussex, Warren and Hunterdon as the best biking area in country.

Mayor Dana Desiderio said she spoke to the police chief and he said they have stopped cyclists for traffic violations. Unlike drivers, though, cyclists do not have to carry a license and often they don’t even carry identification. Police need to confirm a person’s identity to formally charge them, police said.

Based on the uniforms the cyclist were all wearing, Oslen sais she has identified the club they belong to. Selvaggi said that a civil action could be taken against the organizers. “Maybe then they would change their ways.”

Regulating when and how many cyclists come through cannot be done, Selvaggi said. If a large group wants to use a public park, permits are needed.

“Some of the more reputable outfits will advise towns, but they are doing that voluntarily. It is nice for towns to have the heads up. That way they can have more police, maybe notify the rescue squad,” Selvaggi said.

Event organizers would need formal approval if they want roads closed for the event, or want police to direct traffic, otherwise there are no other requirements, he said.

In Tewksbury’s case, police knew about the Tour de Long Valley but two other groups cycling in the area that day that had not sent notices, Olsen said.

Selvaggi said requiring event organizers to send notice does not “cover the dozen guys that meet at the church."

The publicity surrounding the incident has raised awareness of the issue of cyclist/motorist conflicts. Desiderio said she received letters with pictures of problem cyclists.

“The only thing we can do is make police more aware. If I see it, I now know to call police,” she said. “They are not all bad, but on these roads you cannot pass.”

Committeeman Shaun Van Doren said the topic was debated on radio station NJ101.5. He said callers recounted cyclists not following the rules. He heard none defend the cyclists. “I saw some today as I was coming here,” he said, “They stopped right in the middle of the travel lane.”
"I’ve encountered it," Selvaggi said, "You roll down your window and say ‘hey single file’ and they give you the finger gestures and obscenities.”

Committeeman Peter Melick said he has a friend who is a cyclist, “It is all over the Internet forums.”

Committee members agreed that not all cyclists are as disrespectful as the group Olsen encountered, but all cyclists could suffer because of them.

Van Doren said, “Those who are responsible should come forward. Otherwise Tewksbury is going to roll up the carpet and say, ‘you are not welcome, police will be looking for you, take your tours and go in another town, go on a state highway and see how well you can fight with a car.'”

Desiderio proposed writing a letter to those who routinely organize group rides to remind them the rules have to be followed.

Tewksbury Police: We have suspects in bicycle mob investigation | NJ.com


----------



## tednugent

Almost seems like I'm the only one really concerned about our privileges riding on the road.

Those involved in the incident will F us over.

Remember, it only takes a couple sh!theads to screw the rest of us over.


----------



## AlanE

It sounds like Daddy is on a crusade to avenge his little girl's honor: 
"She was destroyed, we were outraged,"
“I have a daughter who was victimized here,” he said. “Someone’s going to pay.” 
He makes it sound like his daughter was gang-raped for crying out loud.

Some of you guys might want to preserve that Strava data that jsedlak claims proves your innocence. I couldn't make heads nor tails out of it, but perhaps Strava could provide an expert forensics witness to testify at trial and persuade the jury. And you might also want to check your handlebars for embedded automotive paint chips.

On a totally unrelated topic, Marty's announced a newly designed team jersey for the 2012-2013 season. Exciting new color scheme and pattern. Gets yours now before the next big event.


----------



## robdamanii

I wasn't there, and I have witnesses. (Heh...thanks for the Concrete Mile ride, Alan.)

I gotta gets me a new Marty's kit...now with more angst? (joking.)


----------



## NJBiker72

tednugent said:


> Almost seems like I'm the only one really concerned about our privileges riding on the road.
> 
> Those involved in the incident will F us over.
> 
> Remember, it only takes a couple sh!theads to screw the rest of us over.


I am concerned. I hate the thought of authorities cracking down on riding because of a likely fake CYA clam and cyclists that won't come forward. I am also concerned about angry motorists giving us even less respect.


----------



## jsedlak

heh... The new kit is mostly the same. The swoosh has been changed a bit to fit the Verge jersey. The bibs are quite different however. It replaces the vertical swoosh with a bullseye type design and two big, white leg panels.

But now you can order primo cut which is perfect for those without a belly.


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## gpcyclist25

I don't know who to complain to here - but frankly somebody here is an idiot - either its Marty or the riding group. And by idiot, I don't mean poor riding.

I mean you guys are getting clobbered in terms of PR - this girl and her crusading Dad have their message out there - where's the cyclists'? Why has their side not been represented? This is pathetic. Frankly, this is why the professional PR industry exists - so you don't get clobbered in the press while your side sits silent.

If some idiotic legislation gets enacted because of this, Marty's will be to blame, not for something he did, but something he didn't. And that would seriously suck.


----------



## robdamanii

gpcyclist25 said:


> I don't know who to complain to here - but frankly somebody here is an idiot - either its Marty or the riding group. And by idiot, I don't mean poor riding.
> 
> I mean you guys are getting clobbered in terms of PR - this girl and her crusading Dad have their message out there - where's the cyclists'? Why has their side not been represented? This is pathetic. Frankly, this is why the professional PR industry exists - so you don't get clobbered in the press while your side sits silent.
> 
> If some idiotic legislation gets enacted because of this, Marty's will be to blame, not for something he did, but something he didn't. And that would seriously suck.


You think it's going to be beneficial to have a bunch of cyclists coming forward and attacking the girl while the public is on her side? Believe me, I think the kid is so full of sh!t her eyes are brown, but coming out and trying to paint her as the devil right now with it being hot in the news and the public being "enraged" by it isn't going to help.

Smart money is on "let it go to court, beat them in court, profit."


----------



## gpcyclist25

Rob, your point is taken, but frankly I think you're mistaken.

The problem here is that as I read it, the situation is not just a law enforcement issue - its clearly become a political one, and obviously a press story, which means you're going to have people come down on one side or another, regardless of how it gets resolved in the courts, especially since 90% of the people expressing opinions on it now will not read about the legal resolution, likely because it won't get any press.

So we can sit back and let the chips fall where they may, or we can make our side heard. And as I said, given that we have politicians involved, unless Marty has some kind of special lobbying power I don't know about, this is quickly being taken out of our hands.

To put it in different terms - I have a friend who's a PR pro in New York, and has repped people and stories you would recognize. In a few recent cases, they involved legal issues, civil. Why would one side bother to spend a boatload of money to have his/her side heard in the press, despite it having, in the abstract, little impact on the civil litigation? Simply put, because you want to control the story as much as you can, so that the unexpected doesn't happen. You let the other side dictate the narrative, and you're going to be equally responsible for an adverse outcome, even one that is a surprise to both sides.


----------



## AlanE

The Morris Area Freewheelers has prepared a draft of a public statement that they are distributing to other clubs and cycling organizations for their input. They hope to get the local media to publish it once finalized. It doesn't focus entirely on this incident (it also refrences a recent incident of a driver mowing down 4 cyclists in Sussex Co), but addresses our concerns and promotes the "share the road" sentiment. Stay tuned.

On a related topic, there are a lot of comments in this thread expressing the view that the young woman involved in this incident is fabricating the whole thing. I don't think so. From some of comments of riders who were on TdLV, it seems clear that there was some incident. And let's face it, some cyclists are douchebags. It doesn't surprise me that some hothead would act out agressively toward an impatient driver honking her horn. I've seen it before. And it's more likely to happen when a large group of cyclists is involved. Individuals become emboldened when they're in a group, perhaps thinking that everyone has their back or maybe just in an attempt to show off and enhance their social status in the group. You know, the alpha-male thing.


----------



## robdamanii

gpcyclist25 said:


> Rob, your point is taken, but frankly I think you're mistaken.
> 
> The problem here is that as I read it, the situation is not just a law enforcement issue - its clearly become a political one, and obviously a press story, which means you're going to have people come down on one side or another, regardless of how it gets resolved in the courts, especially since 90% of the people expressing opinions on it now will not read about the legal resolution, likely because it won't get any press.
> 
> So we can sit back and let the chips fall where they may, or we can make our side heard. And as I said, given that we have politicians involved, unless Marty has some kind of special lobbying power I don't know about, this is quickly being taken out of our hands.
> 
> To put it in different terms - I have a friend who's a PR pro in New York, and has repped people and stories you would recognize. In a few recent cases, they involved legal issues, civil. Why would one side bother to spend a boatload of money to have his/her side heard in the press, despite it having, in the abstract, little impact on the civil litigation? Simply put, because you want to control the story as much as you can, so that the unexpected doesn't happen. You let the other side dictate the narrative, and you're going to be equally responsible for an adverse outcome, even one that is a surprise to both sides.


Who's going to spend the money? Marty? 

He can't control WHO comes in and buys his jerseys. He doesn't just limit them to his racing crew. This would be no different if Liberty Cycles, High Gear, or any other crew had the same problem: who do you blame? 

Ultimately, the responsibility falls on the individuals who committed the "assault" not what was on their jersey. Yes, I understand it's bad PR for Marty's, and especially with GFNJ coming up, but I really doubt that hiring a PR firm for this will make a drastic change. 

I'm going to hazard a guess that Marty has an attorney (probably a business attorney) who can draft something for him to release addressing the situation.

And honestly, I have to say I've seen PLENTY of crappy behavior on the roads around here. People riding in groups need to understand the legalities of riding on the road, which many of them just don't. It's not just one incident that forms an opinion, it's many cumulative incidents.


----------



## robdamanii

AlanE said:


> The Morris Area Freewheelers has prepared a draft of a public statement that they are distributing to other clubs and cycling organizations for their input. They hope to get the local media to publish it once finalized. It doesn't focus entirely on this incident (it also refrences a recent incident of a driver mowing down 4 cyclists in Sussex Co), but addresses our concerns and promotes the "share the road" sentiment. Stay tuned.
> 
> On a related topic, there are a lot of comments in this thread expressing the view that the young woman involved in this incident is fabricating the whole thing. I don't think so. From some of comments of riders who were on TdLV, it seems clear that there was some incident. And let's face it, some cyclists are douchebags. It doesn't surprise me that some hothead would act out agressively toward an impatient driver honking her horn. I've seen it before. And it's more likely to happen when a large group of cyclists is involved. Individuals become emboldened when they're in a group, perhaps thinking that everyone has their back or maybe just in an attempt to show off and enhance their social status in the group. You know, the alpha-male thing.


You hit the nail on the head: SHARE the road. Not condemning the girl, nor the cyclists: both of them (likely) acted inappropriately. The main issue is that you've got 3000 pounds of steel vs. 15 pounds of carbon and 150 pounds of human. People need to realize that cyclists are vulnerable, and cyclists need to realize that they are bound by the rules of the road, and have to play nicely with vehicles.

I don't think the whole thing is "fabricated" but I certainly believe it's highly embellished. Note that there's no fault at all on the side of the girl in the car. And while I agree that there's a lot of douchebags out there, most douchebags don't destroy property unprovoked (IME.) 

More to the story, and all that. But I agree with your sentiment either way.


----------



## Terex

This is how it probably happened:

40 yr. old, amped up male in sports sedan, with several hundred thousand miles driving experience, forces his was through group of 40 yr. old amped up male cyclists. 20 yr. old, inexperienced girl, with only several thousand miles of driving experience tries to follow his lead, and she quickly finds out that driving a motor vehicle is more complicated than just pushing the accelerator. Chaos ensues.

I really doubt that she is lying. She just probably tried to follow the guy in front of her, didn't have the experience to understand that there wasn't room, and incurred the wrath of a bunch of guys who initiated the problem by clogging the road. They should sit down together, review what went wrong, shake hands, and come away from the situation better people.

As if...


----------



## AlanE

Terex said:


> They should sit down together, review what went wrong, shake hands, and come away from the situation better people....


You forgot to add "crack open a few beers". At least that's what Obama would do.


----------



## NJBiker72

AlanE said:


> The Morris Area Freewheelers has prepared a draft of a public statement that they are distributing to other clubs and cycling organizations for their input. They hope to get the local media to publish it once finalized. It doesn't focus entirely on this incident (it also refrences a recent incident of a driver mowing down 4 cyclists in Sussex Co), but addresses our concerns and promotes the "share the road" sentiment. Stay tuned.
> 
> On a related topic, there are a lot of comments in this thread expressing the view that the young woman involved in this incident is fabricating the whole thing. I don't think so. From some of comments of riders who were on TdLV, it seems clear that there was some incident. And let's face it, some cyclists are douchebags. It doesn't surprise me that some hothead would act out agressively toward an impatient driver honking her horn. I've seen it before. And it's more likely to happen when a large group of cyclists is involved. Individuals become emboldened when they're in a group, perhaps thinking that everyone has their back or maybe just in an attempt to show off and enhance their social status in the group. You know, the alpha-male thing.


I'd be curious to see the statement. 

Hopefully most local clubs get in on it. PM me if you do not want to post it. I'd like to get it to my club. 

I never said she fabricated the whole thing. Just her story is pretty one sided and far fetched.

I doubt honking the horn was all that triggered the rage. Likely involved buzzing and possibly lightly bumping them.

If honking the horn was all that caused it, then the cyclists should be 100% ashamed. I just doubt that is the case.


----------



## AlanE

NJBiker72 said:


> I never said she fabricated the whole thing. Just her story is pretty one sided and far fetched.
> .


Sorry, I must have misinterpretted your comment about "... a likely fake CYA claim"

Here's the draft statement that was sent out to the Morris Area Freewheelers membership:

Share The Road,
Share The Responsibility
-There’s Room For Everyone- 

Tensions between bicyclist and motorists are in the spotlight this summer and we believe it’s time we all took more responsibility for cooling the confrontation and sharing the road. 

We represent bicycle clubs and organizations with over two thousand members in NW and Central NJ. Every one of us is also a motorist. We understand sharing the road from behind the wheel as well as in the saddle. 

We are as upset as anyone when a bicyclist does not ride safely or a group of cyclists pack together around a car. We train riders on safe road sharing, criticize riders who do not, and are willing to work with police and town officials to make the roads safe for all.

We also know, first-hand, the consequences when a car or truck weighing a ton or more collides with a rider on a bicycle that weighs under 25 pounds. We are moved to tears when a driver mows down four cyclists from behind and sends two to the hospital. To the motorist the consequence of driving safely and sharing the road may be a short delay. The consequence to the bicyclist could be his or her life. 

Our plea to both bicyclists and motorists is simple: When we share the road, share the responsibility.

For bicyclists, that means riding single file as safely to the right as we can and never more than two, side-by-side even in the absence of traffic. It means being alert to traffic conditions and observing traffic signage. It means learning the laws that govern us, participating in safe riding clinics, and keeping our cool when drivers do not. 

For drivers, it means understanding bicyclists have a right to be on the road, that one of them could be your neighbor or a relative, and that passing safely does sometimes mean slowing down and giving the bicyclist three feet or more of clearance. Please don’t honk, tailgate, or floor it to pass. And please keep your cool even when the bicyclist does not.

We all can benefit from more dialogue and less road rage. There’s room for all of us on the roads we all pay for – and have a right to share. We’re sure that there’s not a single bicyclist or a single driver who gets out of bed in the morning with the idea of creating a dangerous situation. Let’s all work together to make our roads safer for all.


----------



## NJBiker72

AlanE said:


> Sorry, I must have misinterpretted your comment about "... a likely fake CYA claim"
> 
> Here's the draft statement that was sent out to the Morris Area Freewheelers membership:
> 
> Share The Road,
> Share The Responsibility
> -There’s Room For Everyone-
> 
> Tensions between bicyclist and motorists are in the spotlight this summer and we believe it’s time we all took more responsibility for cooling the confrontation and sharing the road.
> 
> We represent bicycle clubs and organizations with over two thousand members in NW and Central NJ. Every one of us is also a motorist. We understand sharing the road from behind the wheel as well as in the saddle.
> 
> We are as upset as anyone when a bicyclist does not ride safely or a group of cyclists pack together around a car. We train riders on safe road sharing, criticize riders who do not, and are willing to work with police and town officials to make the roads safe for all.
> 
> We also know, first-hand, the consequences when a car or truck weighing a ton or more collides with a rider on a bicycle that weighs under 25 pounds. We are moved to tears when a driver mows down four cyclists from behind and sends two to the hospital. To the motorist the consequence of driving safely and sharing the road may be a short delay. The consequence to the bicyclist could be his or her life.
> 
> Our plea to both bicyclists and motorists is simple: When we share the road, share the responsibility.
> 
> For bicyclists, that means riding single file as safely to the right as we can and never more than two, side-by-side even in the absence of traffic. It means being alert to traffic conditions and observing traffic signage. It means learning the laws that govern us, participating in safe riding clinics, and keeping our cool when drivers do not.
> 
> For drivers, it means understanding bicyclists have a right to be on the road, that one of them could be your neighbor or a relative, and that passing safely does sometimes mean slowing down and giving the bicyclist three feet or more of clearance. Please don’t honk, tailgate, or floor it to pass. And please keep your cool even when the bicyclist does not.
> 
> We all can benefit from more dialogue and less road rage. There’s room for all of us on the roads we all pay for – and have a right to share. We’re sure that there’s not a single bicyclist or a single driver who gets out of bed in the morning with the idea of creating a dangerous situation. Let’s all work together to make our roads safer for all.



Thanks. I understand my initial comment may have been harsh. Just found the story highly unlikely. Having ridden with a couple of groups just can't imagine something so trivial setting a group off. 

I will pass this along.


----------



## Terex

AlanE said:


> You forgot to add "crack open a few beers". At least that's what Obama would do.


I'll do that for them.


----------



## gpcyclist25

I rode the Ramapo Rally today, and certainly in the early groups, there were large clusters of cyclists simply hogging up a lot of road, riding 3 abreast, etc. So there's blame to go around.

That said, while we don't know the exact circumstances here, to me its highly unlikely that a bunch of male cyclists (a group of above average education and above average income, and well above average vulnerability to death and dismemberment by a 4000 vehicle) decided to commit property damage without serious provocation. I don't think it requires a great deal of imagination to speculate that the girl in question, all of 20 and all that that implies in terms of experience and maturity, simply thought she could use the car as a battering ram and force her way through, with little thought to the potential human cost of doing so. And the cyclists took great umbrage towards it. And of course, the Father of said driver, compounds the stupidity by acting as if his Princess can do no wrong whatsoever.

Like I said, we'll see how the facts shake out, but to me, as a cyclist who's seen way too many teens talking on the phone while "driving," she does not warrant the benefit of the doubt. And I suspect most of you feel the same way.


----------



## NJgreyhead

*Wtf?*



gpcyclist25 said:


> but to me, as a cyclist who's seen way too many teens talking on the phone while "driving," she does not warrant the benefit of the doubt. And I suspect most of you feel the same way.


As a cyclist who has seen way too many cyclists in groups not sharing the road with cars, I don't agree with you.

Apparently, this whole incident came about because cyclists did not allow adequate room for cars to pass them on a public road.

And I won't discriminate against the driver simply because of her age. No one has suggested talking on the phone (or texting, for that matter) played any part in this incident.


----------



## robdamanii

NJgreyhead said:


> As a cyclist who has seen way too many cyclists in groups not sharing the road with cars, I don't agree with you.
> 
> Apparently, this whole incident came about because cyclists did not allow adequate room for cars to pass them on a public road.
> 
> And I won't discriminate against the driver simply because of her age. No one has suggested talking on the phone (or texting, for that matter) played any part in this incident.


Even if they were single file on the road in question, with a cyclist or cyclists riding in each direction, it's tight to have vehicles safely passing.


----------



## jsedlak

Not sure if this was posted, but charges are gone. 
http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/hun...f/2012/08/bicyclists_who_allegedly_attac.html

My educated guess is that the garmin data was pretty much priceless...


----------



## NJBiker72

jsedlak said:


> Not sure if this was posted, but charges are gone.
> http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/hun...f/2012/08/bicyclists_who_allegedly_attac.html
> 
> My educated guess is that the garmin data was pretty much priceless...


Not what I would have liked to have seen. Would rather have seen them exonerated or prosecuted. Let the truth come out rather than leave this out there as a rallying call for crazy motorists and state legislators. 

Sounds like a cop out frankly. How do you not id someone with an id number wearing jerseys also identifying them.


----------



## gpcyclist25

My speculation would be that her story fell apart - it shouldn't have been difficult to ID them given how close they were to the car when they were "menacing" her.


----------



## jsedlak

NJBiker72 said:


> Sounds like a cop out frankly. How do you not id someone with an id number wearing jerseys also identifying them.


Riders _were _ picked out by her and ID'd


----------



## robdamanii

jsedlak said:


> Riders _were _ picked out by her and ID'd


Which makes me wonder if the story had too many inconsistencies to it, OR the police realize she has now witnesses to testify on her behalf while the cyclists have probably a dozen.

Too bad, I would have liked to see the truth come out about this.


----------



## NJBiker72

robdamanii said:


> Which makes me wonder if the story had too many inconsistencies to it, OR the police realize she has now witnesses to testify on her behalf while the cyclists have probably a dozen.
> 
> Too bad, I would have liked to see the truth come out about this.


Exactly the way the paper reported this does the cycling community no favors though.


----------



## tednugent

NJBiker72 said:


> Exactly the way the paper reported this does the cycling community no favors though.


Yep... the damage has already been done.

As I mentioned earlier, the silience from the riders involved, only damages the public perception of roadies.


----------



## gpcyclist25

tednugent said:


> Yep... the damage has already been done.
> 
> As I mentioned earlier, the silience from the riders involved, only damages the public perception of roadies.


Yes, I'm sure that whoever read about the case now thinks that roadies are jerks, and that they only escaped prosecution because of a "technicality," rather than the driver's culpability. More reason to keep your head on a swivel now I suppose.


----------



## tednugent

Gran Fondo NJ is just around the corner... I hope whomever was involved in TDLV incident seriously consider how they ride in their group.... this ain't no critical mass event

another incident so soon won't bode well for us and especially event organizers


----------



## NJBiker72

tednugent said:


> Gran Fondo NJ is just around the corner... I hope whomever was involved in TDLV incident seriously consider how they ride in their group.... this ain't no critical mass event
> 
> another incident so soon won't bode well for us and especially event organizers


Especially considering it is organized by Marty's. Went on the Fondo training ride last week with that group. Even rode around Tewksbury (medio route).

We did not beat up any young girls.


----------



## tucg15

New article out today about Tewsbury warning cyclists to obey the laws or get ticketed. Ride smart everyone in that area.

http://www.nj.com/hunterdon-county-democrat/index.ssf/2012/09/tewksbury_township_to_cyclists.html


----------



## tednugent

tucg15 said:


> New article out today about Tewsbury warning cyclists to obey the laws or get ticketed. Ride smart everyone in that area.
> 
> http://www.nj.com/hunterdon-county-democrat/index.ssf/2012/09/tewksbury_township_to_cyclists.html


.... people need to ride smart & considerate in general. There are other threads, ie how cops are ticketing cyclists on 9W, Nanuet, etc....


----------



## NJBiker72

tednugent said:


> .... people need to ride smart & considerate in general. There are other threads, ie how cops are ticketing cyclists on 9W, Nanuet, etc....


Very true. Far Hills is also cracking down by most accounts.


----------



## Pug

NJBiker72 said:


> Exactly the way the paper reported this does the cycling community no favors though.


They make it sound like we're from another planet. Like we're invaders that swoop in on strange machines and wearing strange uniforms intent on destroying their quality of life. 

Guess what? I'm just an old guy trying to be healthy. I also drive a car, pay a mortgage and have kids not that much younger than the girl in the story.

And for the tools who lose their situational awareness when riding in a group: please ride solo or find another activity beside cycling.


----------



## krafa

Wow, i visited with my friends last Sunday.


----------



## robdamanii

Let me tell you, some of the behavior at gfnj was also downright shameful. People not moving to single file for cars, not stopping at stop signs, and some riders were just plain angry when cars beeped or people yelled at them to move over for traffic. 

I wasn't impressed by a lot of the riders. Too bad, because the event was excellent, but suffered due to some of the participants.


----------



## merckxman

It strikes me that the caption under the photo in the latest story is misleading/incorrect, "Sharing the road with motorists means cyclists should stay as far right as possible and ride in single file, as these riders demonstrate. When the road is wide enough, cyclists can ride no more than two abreast under state law in New Jersey."

Aren't we allowed to ride two abreast unless we are impeding traffic? Once traffic is impeded we are supposed to move into single file.


----------



## tednugent

merckxman said:


> It strikes me that the caption under the photo in the latest story is misleading/incorrect, "Sharing the road with motorists means cyclists should stay as far right as possible and ride in single file, as these riders demonstrate. When the road is wide enough, cyclists can ride no more than two abreast under state law in New Jersey."
> 
> Aren't we allowed to ride two abreast unless we are impeding traffic? Once traffic is impeded we are supposed to move into single file.


There lies the problem... when the road is empty... riding 2 abreast is fine. When there is a car barreling down behind you.... some people don't want to temporarily go single file... and that's one of the reasons why motorists hate cyclists


----------



## NJBiker72

tednugent said:


> There lies the problem... when the road is empty... riding 2 abreast is fine. When there is a car barreling down behind you.... some people don't want to temporarily go single file... and that's one of the reasons why motorists hate cyclists


I don't think it is so much they don't want to, but it is not instantaneous..


----------



## tednugent

NJBiker72 said:


> I don't think it is so much they don't want to, but it is not instantaneous..


there are people who refuse to ride single file when the situation warrants it, even if the driver provides plenty of time for the cyclists to do so.

The Team-In-Training groups... they actually demand their riders follow the rules of the road, including doing un-Strava-cool things like stopping for red lights & stop signs.


----------



## AlanE

merckxman said:


> It strikes me that the caption under the photo in the latest story is misleading/incorrect, "Sharing the road with motorists means cyclists should stay as far right as possible....


Incorrect indeed. The law states that cyclists should ride as far to the right as PRACTICAL, not as far to the right as POSSIBLE. PRACTICAL is generally interpretted as what is safe, and the law specifies situations when a cyclist can move to the left, such as to avoid debris or other unsafe conditions.

It's not PRACTICAL to ride as far to the right as POSSIBLE
I know, I know, I'm preaching to the choir. Can I get an Amen?


----------



## NJBiker72

robdamanii said:


> Let me tell you, some of the behavior at gfnj was also downright shameful. People not moving to single file for cars, not stopping at stop signs, and some riders were just plain angry when cars beeped or people yelled at them to move over for traffic.
> 
> I wasn't impressed by a lot of the riders. Too bad, because the event was excellent, but suffered due to some of the participants.


I saw very little of this. Maybe one rude rider. But for the most part people were considerate both ways. Of course there was a ton of bike traffic at the start so until the routes broke up, it may have held back traffic a bit.


----------



## rlb81

robdamanii said:


> Let me tell you, some of the behavior at gfnj was also downright shameful. People not moving to single file for cars, not stopping at stop signs, and some riders were just plain angry when cars beeped or people yelled at them to move over for traffic


I see this anywhere there are multiple cyclists, even just two. Yesterday morning I spotted 2 guys riding abreast on a very busy 2 lane county road. They were moving at a snails pace and completely blocking a lane of travel on a road where cars easily reach 40-50 mph. I'm not really sure what they were thinking.

I ride solo on the road all of the time and I have very few incidents with cars. Honestly I'm not surprised when groups clash with cars, the group mentality does give a lot of leverage to make a motorist angry.


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## robdamanii

NJBiker72 said:


> I saw very little of this. Maybe one rude rider. But for the most part people were considerate both ways. Of course there was a ton of bike traffic at the start so until the routes broke up, it may have held back traffic a bit.


I think it depended where you started in the pecking order.

We ended up stuck behind a lot of the slower crew. They weren't terribly considerate.


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## ischgl99

robdamanii said:


> I think it depended where you started in the pecking order.
> 
> We ended up stuck behind a lot of the slower crew. They weren't terribly considerate.


I agree completely, we started near the back and people in that group were horrible. After about 10 or so miles it got better, but the beginning was some of the worst cycling etiquette I have even seen.


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## NJBiker72

robdamanii said:


> I think it depended where you started in the pecking order.
> 
> We ended up stuck behind a lot of the slower crew. They weren't terribly considerate.


We got stuck far back too. One of our guys flatted about three miles in. So we were stopped right at the one turn onto a main road. 

When we got back on it was a lot of in and out to get around the slower traffic. I think we did a good job of getting around without being a problem for cars or other bikes.

That first rest stop was real backed up by then too. Things really opened up after the Grand/Medio split and to a lesser degree after the piccolo split and at Black River Road.


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## tednugent

Piccolo split shortly after the Peapack-Gladstone stop.


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## NJBiker72

tednugent said:


> Piccolo split shortly after the Peapack-Gladstone stop.


Yes. That was the first point where the herd kind of thinned a bit. Then again after the first climb. But it got much quieter after the Califon split of the Medio and Gran routes. There were times it was just the 3 of us on the road.


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