# Specialized Saxo Bank team issue?



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I know I'm not up on the pro circuit, but does anyone know anything about Spec's reference to a Saxo Bank team-issue Tarmac? The only reference to it is in the What's New/ Headlines section of their website - nothing listed under the Tarmac, besides the team carbon/ red. 

http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCWhatsNewDetail.jsp?article=7052


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## ksanbon (Jul 19, 2008)

I don't know if this is the production Team Version, but here's a pic from Interbike.

http://www.roadbikeaction.com/fly.aspx?layout=content&taxid=67&cid=720


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ksanbon said:


> I don't know if this is the production Team Version, but here's a pic from Interbike.
> 
> http://www.roadbikeaction.com/fly.aspx?layout=content&taxid=67&cid=720


Thanks for posting. It's hard to tell from the view on Spec's website, but I'd say that Interbike shot matches pretty well. Of course the next (rhetorical) question would be, why is it not listed with the Tarmacs??!!


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## pdainsworth (Jun 6, 2004)

The Specialized retailer site shows SL2 Saxo modules (frame, fork, seatpost, crank, and stem) being available in April. Don't see anything about a complete bike, though.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

pdainsworth said:


> The Specialized retailer site shows SL2 Saxo modules (frame, fork, seatpost, crank, and stem) being available in April. Don't see anything about a complete bike, though.


Thanks for the info. I guess ya gotta be on the inside to know these things.  
It seems odd that they'd offer only the module, but maybe between now and April they'll add the color scheme to the SL2 framesets.

My pursuit of this is based more on curiousity that a potential purchase. Right now the Pro frameset interests me the most, but it's tough to justify the _need_ for three bikes.


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

Haven't they been doing this the last few years? I.e., new 'team color' bike(s) about mid-bicycle-year?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Dr_John said:


> Haven't they been doing this the last few years? I.e., new 'team color' bike(s) about mid-bicycle-year?


You could very well be right, but fact is I haven't closely followed Spec (or the entire bike industry, for that matter), until my steel ride of 18 years showed signs of rust - and a black Lab decided to run in front of me to say 'hi'!


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

My impression is that the color schemes are not static. The ones in the catalog are the release schemes, and it's not unusual for Specialized to release 'refresh' color schemes on their top of the line frames as the year goes by. I used to think what was in the catalog was what you could get, but that appears to not be the case.

Of course or I could just be plain wrong too. 

I like the Saxo Bank color scheme. Looks like white's the new red, but I like white much more. More understated, especially for someone that prefers less flash/bling.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Dr_John said:


> My impression is that the color schemes are not static. The ones in the catalog are the release schemes, and it's not unusual for Specialized to release 'refresh' color schemes on their top of the line frames as the year goes by. I used to think what was in the catalog was what you could get, but that appears to not be the case.
> 
> Of course or I could just be plain wrong too.
> 
> I like the Saxo Bank color scheme. Looks like white's the new red, but I like white much more. More understated, especially for someone that prefers less flash/bling.


Well, if you're wrong (and I'd bet you're not) then that's a first for this forum. I don't think I've ever read a post containing erroneous info, and God knows I've never posted inaccuracies. :wink5:

Of the two (current?) color schemes for the Pro, I lean towards the carbon/ red, but don't dislike the white. The thing I really like about the Saxo Bank color scheme is how the black contrasts the white with (apparently) some blue from the fork up to the TT. Then there's the downside of Team issues - the brand name plastered on almost every available space (even more than Spec's norm). Somebody's gotta do something about that!


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Just last Friday Jan-2, I ordered an S-Works SL2 frameset in the 'standard' _White w/ Gold Stripe_ , with an April  delivery (standard geometry, not "Team").

Interestingly - IIRC - the retailer's restricted website listed an order code for the Saxo color scheme, but the webpage said "No Image Available" -- so I couldn't actually view it.

From the crappy Interbike photo at http://www.roadbikeaction.com/fly.aspx?layout=content&taxid=67&cid=720 , it seems the Saxo design is similar to the standard "White w/ Gold Stripe" _except _it has a Blue stripe graphic.

I think the "White w/ Blue stripe" is more attractive.

I may well visit the retailer tomorrow, and find out if _any_ Saxo design pics are available, and maybe even change my order.

But I'd hate to order a color, sight-unseen, and then find out the production release isn't what I expected :-(


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

tom_h said:


> I think the "White w/ Blue stripe" is more attractive.


The blue appears to be the corporate colour for Saxo Bank.



tom_h said:


> But I'd hate to order a color, sight-unseen, and then find out the production release isn't what I expected :-(


Yeah, I was wondering if these pictures were mock-ups or placeholders. We'll know for sure in 2 weeks when the Tour Down Under starts.


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## jhamlin38 (Oct 29, 2005)

*saxobike*

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2...jan09/bayseries09/bayseries094/01_03_Bay2_481


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

jhamlin38 said:


> http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2...jan09/bayseries09/bayseries094/01_03_Bay2_481


Ah, new pics - thanks for posting! If we piece them all together we might get some idea of what the bike actually looks like.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

It seems you've got a tough decision to make. 
The gold on the white/ gold adds a touch of class, while the team issue adds a dose of exclusivity - especially if offered short term. But either way, you're getting a great bike! :thumbsup:


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## nis240sxt (Oct 6, 2004)

Just checked out specialized usa's website, they have new pics of both quickstep and CSC team bikes. Wow, hopefully it's gonna be a VERY GOOD year for specialized with these 2 high powered squads.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

*Info from my local Specialized dealer*

-- they don't have 'official' high-resolution pics of Saxo colors, either.
-- seems it is possible to order.
-- frameset delivery is another 2-3 months out, about the same as the White S-Works SL2 frameset I ordered few days ago.

So, for time being, I'm leaving my order unchanged.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

tom_h said:


> So, for time being, I'm leaving my order unchanged.


That's what I'd do. Personally I wouldn't buy a team bike just in case that team ever gets kicked out of the Tour ...


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ukbloke said:


> Personally I wouldn't buy a team bike just in case that team ever gets kicked out of the Tour ...


To each his/ her own, but I can't relate to that. If I like a brand/ model/ paint scheme I go for it (assuming I love the ride/ handling and the fit is near optimal). The team (if any) associated with it is, to me, irrelevant. Also, IMO this is on a par with not liking LA, so you don't buy a Trek/ Madone. Or Boonen proves he can be an idiot (which he has done) so you sell your Spec?  I like and admire George Hincapie, but don't care for Giants, but no matter. If he rides one, that's what I want!


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

I like my blue S-Works SL, which was technically the Gerolsteiner team bike. I didn't ride for Gerolsteiner, and fortunately all the Gerolsteiner stickers were quite easy to remove.

So I'm guessing these team issue bikes have the team bike geometry, and not the standard tarmac dimensions? Hard to tell from the angle of that photo, but it does look like they have shorter head tubes.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Dr_John said:


> I like my blue S-Works SL, which was technically the Gerolsteiner team bike. I didn't ride for Gerolsteiner, and fortunately all the Gerolsteiner stickers were quite easy to remove.


My Tarmac Comp has the Gerolsteiner paint scheme as well, and like you, I was quick to remove the stickers. I can't remember if they went before or after the reflectors.  



Dr_John said:


> So I'm guessing these team issue bikes have the team bike geometry, and not the standard tarmac dimensions? Hard to tell from the angle of that photo, but it does look like they have shorter head tubes.


Exactly. If the Saxo Bank team issue follows suit, the HT length is all that differentiates it from the standard geo. One thing of note (to me) is that the team issues start at 54 cm's, so apparently those of us requiring a smaller frame aren't able to pull off pro wannabe status.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Sorry, I should have engaged brain before that post. I'd have no qualms at all where I liked the underlying color scheme and the team stickers could be pulled off. It is just the team and maybe third-party sponsor logos that would bother me. Similarly I wouldn't choose to wear team kit. My Tarmac frame says something like "Innovate or Die" on the inside of the forks, and that also doesn't resonate with me at all.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Dr_John said:


> I like my blue S-Works SL, which was technically the Gerolsteiner team bike. I didn't ride for Gerolsteiner, and fortunately all the Gerolsteiner stickers were quite easy to remove.


Thoughtful of them to place stickers on top of the clearcoat! I'm not wild about branding logos, in general ... although with modern bikes I've had to get over it, to a large degree.



> So I'm guessing these team issue bikes have the team bike geometry, and not the standard tarmac dimensions? Hard to tell from the angle of that photo, but it does look like they have shorter head tubes.


 I could be remembering it wrong, but when I ordered my standard geometry SWorks last week, it _seemed_ (on the dealer-only website) there was an ordering code for the SaxoTeam color, but there was "No Image Available" .


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## loubnc (May 8, 2008)

PJ352 said:


> Or Boonen proves he can be an idiot (which he has done) so you sell your Spec?


He may be an idiot, but I quite like my QS Tarmac.:thumbsup:


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

loubnc said:


> He may be an idiot, but I quite like my QS Tarmac.:thumbsup:


My point, exactly.  

I like your QS Tarmac too!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ukbloke said:


> Sorry, I should have engaged brain before that post.


Oh sure, raise the standards and put pressure on the rest of us to do the same.  



ukbloke said:


> I'd have no qualms at all where I liked the underlying color scheme and the team stickers could be pulled off. It is just the team and maybe third-party sponsor logos that would bother me. Similarly I wouldn't choose to wear team kit. My Tarmac frame says something like "Innovate or Die" on the inside of the forks, and that also doesn't resonate with me at all.


I agree. If you search back aways on this forum you'll find many of us 'more mature' Spec fans ranting about the +/- 15 SPECIALIZED logos appearing in every possible place. Frames/ forks/ saddles/ stems (how do they manage to write SPECIALIZED _twice_ on that little stem!) and yes, that _Innovate or Die_ logo is over the top, IMHO. Too bad Spec doesn't recognize that some of us _prefer_ understated and offer more options. The only one I can think of at the moment is the Raw KL available on the Tarmac SL2. Nice.
View attachment 152048


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

> The only one I can think of at the moment is the Raw KL available on the Tarmac SL2. Nice.


There you go. I love it.

And they're still doing the "Innovate or die" tag? Yeah, pretty silly. 



> Thoughtful of them to place stickers on top of the clearcoat!


Easier to remove than a sticker on an apple. Glad they did that right.

And that limited release Bettini color scheme at the end of last year was gorgeous. And not because the cricket rode one with the same color scheme.


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## ksanbon (Jul 19, 2008)

*It's on the Specialized wehbsite*

Here's the page. I don't know how to copy the enlarged pic - sorry! Tell me how - Thanks!

http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=43786&eid=115


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Very nice, I see that has the new Di2 shifters and doesn't have BB30. It manages to keep a 4 figure price tag before tax (just). It is hard to be sure, but either it is very different lighting in the picture or it has a less brilliant white than the Pro frames. I see that this one is the standard geometry not the team.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

ksanbon said:


> Here's the page. I don't know how to copy the enlarged pic - sorry! Tell me how - Thanks!


1. save photo to local hard drive .
2. when you are composing your RBR post, scroll further down to the "attach files / upload photo" box.
3. follow its instructions for uploading photo, from local hard drive to RBR website.
4. finally, click "submit reply" ! 

The photo seems to have the color less saturated -- not easy to distinguish whether it's really the bike, or just the photo settings.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

tom_h said:


> The photo seems to have the color less saturated -- not easy to distinguish whether it's really the bike, or just the photo settings.


Yeah, I think it must be bad/different lighting. Presumably the bar tape and saddle are pure white, and they look dull in this photo too. You can see shadows on the bar tape and the crankset indicating there's not much light from the front and this is causing that contrast on the tubes.


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## Blade-Runner (Jun 4, 2008)

Dam those colors are hot!!!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Wow, that's an amazing looking bike. I'm surprised they opted to offer a team issue as a complete bike. Also surprised that it's offered in standard geo. All of this is moot, because I can't justify spending 10K on a bike. So, back to ogling the Pro!


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## ksanbon (Jul 19, 2008)

I really like it but I'm with PJ352 - it's so far out of my budget I couldn't even think about it. 

Speaking of the image, my guess is that they purposely lit the bike from the top so the white frame would stand out more in front of the white background. If the blue is metallic, it looks a lot darker than it probably is due to the lack of direct lighting.

Tom H - I'm curious to know what your thoughts are now.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

ksanbon said:


> I really like it but I'm with PJ352 - it's so far out of my budget I couldn't even think about it.
> 
> Speaking of the image, my guess is that they purposely lit the bike from the top so the white frame would stand out more in front of the white background. If the blue is metallic, it looks a lot darker than it probably is due to the lack of direct lighting.
> 
> Tom H - I'm curious to know what your thoughts are now.


"Someone" could possibly use the color decals at the front wheel's 6 o'clock position, as a reference to adjust colors more accurately in Photoshop ... beyond my ken ;-)

I recently ordered an S-works frameset in the White/Gold-stripe color ... based on the sketchy data so far, I think I'm going to leave my order unchanged ... quoted delivery is way out in March/April.


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## g-Bike (Jan 25, 2006)

The pro SL is an awesome bike. I just put in a few hours on mine for the first time and can't say enough. I have had a merlin extralight, a cannondale caad9 and to be completely honest this bike far out weighs either of the prior in performance and comfort. If you are on the fence for a Tarmac Pro SL don't hesitate you will be completely happy with it. And to add a side note purchase it from a Specialized Concept store for they have plenty of stock as well as seatposts, stems and Body Geometry Seats on hand to make your bike fitting process near perfect. Oh ya and no I don't work for Specialized but I do love their bikes and saddles.


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## jerm409 (Jun 24, 2002)

the dealer site has a listing for two complete bikes. one with DA 7900, the other with Di2. Due out in late march?!?!?!?!?



pdainsworth said:


> The Specialized retailer site shows SL2 Saxo modules (frame, fork, seatpost, crank, and stem) being available in April. Don't see anything about a complete bike, though.


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## ricky bobby (Jul 4, 2008)

Not sure if this has been posted already or not- you guys have probably seen it, but i came accross this short video on youtube of team Saxo Bank working with Andy Pruitt doing the Specialized BG Fit. I love Jens Voigt- that guy rocks hard! :8: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjefafbeT74


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

And here they are at the TDU:


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

tom_h said:


> ...The photo seems to have the color less saturated -- not easy to distinguish whether it's really the bike, or just the photo settings...


Pic of complete, Dura-Ace Di2 equipped, Team Saxo bike , that _was_ at 
http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=43786&eid=115 , 
has been removed


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

There's now a Saxo S-Works Tarmac frameset depicted at 
http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCEquipPopup.jsp?equipimage=/OA_MEDIA/2009/bikes/7790-25_l.jpg&equipmodel=S-Works%20Tarmac%20SL2%20Frameset

Also, Dura-Ace and DA Di2 built-up models are listed. http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?a=b&minisite=10029&eid=115&spid=39241&language=US 

Standard geometry, not short head tube "team" geometry.

While the Saxo looks handsome, I have no regrets that I ordered (and received!) a "Gloss White w/ Gold Stripe" frameset


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I saw that as well. Nice of Spec to offer the Saxo Bank paint scheme on the SL2 frameset. That way us mere mortals _might_ be able to afford it.


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## Catapult (Nov 5, 2004)

PJ352 said:


> Oh sure, raise the standards and put pressure on the rest of us to do the same.
> 
> 
> I agree. If you search back aways on this forum you'll find many of us 'more mature' Spec fans ranting about the +/- 15 SPECIALIZED logos appearing in every possible place. Frames/ forks/ saddles/ stems (how do they manage to write SPECIALIZED _twice_ on that little stem!) and yes, that _Innovate or Die_ logo is over the top, IMHO. Too bad Spec doesn't recognize that some of us _prefer_ understated and offer more options. The only one I can think of at the moment is the Raw KL available on the Tarmac SL2. Nice.
> View attachment 152048


gee, that looks just like mine 

I was worried about not having the chainstay protector near the chainrings like all the other paint schemes of this frame and called Specialized. Talked to one of their engineers who told me this color was produced very early in the production of the SL2 and since then the other versions all have the metal bash guard (I got the impression that this color is no longer available). He was kind enough to send me some prototype carbon fiber bash guards (2 different sizes, 2 each, for free!) but I haven't got around to installing one yet. Cool part is that they are *white* carbon fiber...:thumbsup:


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

velonews has a story and pictures about Frank Schleck's SL2 from the Tour of California.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ukbloke said:


> velonews has a story and pictures about Frank Schleck's SL2 from the Tour of California.


Good stuff.. thanks for posting! :thumbsup:


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

> velonews has a story and pictures about Frank Schleck's SL2 from the Tour of California.


Interesting to see the pros still prefer the rear brake cable guide on the left side of the head tube instead of the right, which is where it is on off-the-floorSL2's.

I knew they weren't off-the-floor frames since they have non-removable derailleur hangers, but I didn't know they were a completely different lay-up too.


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## Wborgers (Oct 6, 2008)

Just orderred a Saxo Tarmac- many frames now in stock- will have early next week- I am fired up!


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## Magdaddy (Feb 23, 2007)

*I just gotta say..*

the price of that Saxo Bank Di2 bike just kills me. I had a Tarmac Pro on my short list this year, but didn't like the Gloss white ONLY that came with the Sram build. The part spec was very nice, and the price was reasonable, but I couldn't get past the white...just not a fan.

Anyway, I just didn't feel I could build an equivilent frame up bike for similar money in my fav Carbon Team/Red color choice. So, I started seriously looking elsewhere. 

I've been a big S loyalist since 1999, road and mtn bikes have all been from them-only the cross bike(CDale) is from elsewhere. I have more gear-shorts(3), jersey's(4), jacket(1), sock's(5), gloves(3),shoes(5), helmet(1), extra wheelset's(2)arm warmers, multiple casual wear, floor pump, stickers, baners, nothing but their road/cross tubes, saddles(3), and tires, etc...I am(maybe was ) their marketing department's wet dream.

Anyway, I looked closely at a couple of Cervelo's, as well as a couple of Giants. To make this long story shorter, I bought a Giant TCR Advanced SL 0. It is my favorite black/red color, full Sram Red, integrated seat post, great bar/stem/seat spec, and...Zipp 404's.

While msrp for the bike is $7300-that's SL2 category for sure, Giant dealers(at least my local one) don't tremble under the "the manufacturer is watching" paranoia syndrome. Of the three local big S dealers to me, two won't move a dollar off of msrp for a bike, the other will only move 10%. I got this Giant for Tarmac Pro money!

Now I know the Di2 stuff is gonna be big, BIG $$$, (my local shop says msrp isn't even out yet)and the 7900 is more than Red anyway, but that Saxo Bank build is just too damn expensive.

I don't want to start a Red vs DA debate, because we all have personal preferences as well as valid points for either. In a nutshell here, I personally feel that Specialized is pricing themselves out of MY market, and probably others too.

Next summer I'll be replacing my 06 Stumpjumper FSR. Brain shock concerns aside, I'll probably be looking elsewhere then too. Price, and their historically iffy propriatary shock reliability have already sent others I know elsewhere, and I may be next.

Funny, if the Tarmac Pro came in that aforementioned Team Black/Red with the Sram build, I probably would have drove to that quaint little shop in Wakefield, RI and got it cheaper there-a 4 hour drive for me, than anywhere around here, But the lack of color choice, and my local shops lack of desire to negotiate price, made me seriously look elsewhere.

I love the Giant-although I can't ride it until the roads clear here in Central New York. I'll feel kinda funny wearing my big S shoes/socks/bib's/gloves/jacket while riding it. I got another helmet-a Giro Ionos, and will be flying the shop colors from where I bought it with a jersey.

Anyway, I just felt like sharing my story, cause ya know...breaking up is harrrd to dooo ooo.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Congrats!! Complete bike or frameset?


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## Wborgers (Oct 6, 2008)

Just a frameset- will move a record groupo over from an older Madone and use a new Ultra torque that Campy replaced a cracked crank with- I feel really fortunate that I could keep this in my budget- the cost of the whole bikes have just gone insane.
Best


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## Rubi13 (Sep 6, 2007)

Magdaddy said:


> While msrp for the bike is $7300-that's SL2 category for sure, Giant dealers(at least my local one) don't tremble under the "the manufacturer is watching" paranoia syndrome. Of the three local big S dealers to me, two won't move a dollar off of msrp for a bike, the other will only move 10%. I got this Giant for Tarmac Pro money!
> 
> Funny, if the Tarmac Pro came in that aforementioned Team Black/Red with the Sram build, I probably would have drove to that quaint little shop in Wakefield, RI and got it cheaper there-a 4 hour drive for me, than anywhere around here, But the lack of color choice, and my local shops lack of desire to negotiate price, made me seriously look elsewhere.
> 
> ...


I can assure you it is not paranoia, and the manufacturers do find out.....so the 10% off wasn't good enough for you? How much margin do you think there is in bikes?

Maybe if you were working with one shop instead of price shopping at 3 different ones your experience would have been better.


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## Dr_John (Oct 11, 2005)

> the price of that Saxo Bank Di2 bike just kills me.


I don't see why. It's Specialized's top-of-the line, ultimate dream bike etc. You mentioned Giant; best I can tell, their top of the line TCR Advanced SL is $8,000, and that's without Di2 and with Shimano 7850-C24-CL wheels. Add Di2 and substitute some Zipp 404's and you're rapidly approaching the Saxo Bank Di2 price region.



> Anyway, I just didn't feel I could build an equivilent frame up bike for similar money in my fav Carbon Team/Red color choice.


I bet with a little shopping, you could have come close. And with the modest surcharge, you'd get exactly the components you want. I was in the opposite situation. I liked the color of the full bike more than the frameset color, but I wanted to choose my parts. I went with the frameset anyways, and I don't regret it at all.

And as Rubi mentions, I've never paid anywhere near MSRP for any of my Specialized bikes/frameset.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Dr_John said:


> I don't see why. It's Specialized's top-of-the line, ultimate dream bike etc. You mentioned Giant; best I can tell, their top of the line TCR Advanced SL is $8,000, and that's without Di2 and with Shimano 7850-C24-CL wheels. Add Di2 and substitute some Zipp 404's and you're rapidly approaching the Saxo Bank Di2 price region.
> 
> I bet with a little shopping, you could have come close. And with the modest surcharge, you'd get exactly the components you want. I was in the opposite situation. I liked the color of the full bike more than the frameset color, but I wanted to choose my parts. I went with the frameset anyways, and I don't regret it at all.
> 
> And as Rubi mentions, I've never paid anywhere near MSRP for any of my Specialized bikes/frameset.


I didn't get Magdaddy's logic either, but did get the distinct impression that he was looking for a reason to go with something other than Spec. 

The possibility exists that the Giant is heavily discounted because of this:
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=159599


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## Magdaddy (Feb 23, 2007)

Rubi13 said:


> I can assure you it is not paranoia, and the manufacturers do find out.....so the 10% off wasn't good enough for you? How much margin do you think there is in bikes?
> 
> Maybe if you were working with one shop instead of price shopping at 3 different ones your experience would have been better.



So, you don't price shop when making major purchase's?

I have been a customer at all three of my local Spec dealers for the last ten years, they all greet me by name when I walk in, even recognize my voice on the phone. Over the years, one especially has been very upfront and honest about his markup, and how it varies across the product line, lower to upper. None of these shops stock bikes at the higher end, either road or mountain. When I'm shopping price, it's simple really. I pay cash up front for you to order the bike, what's the best you can do.

I don't begrudge any of these shops making a buck, I like and respect them all. I however do not feel obligated to settle for a 10% discount because Specialized is "watching". As I've traveled around this country, I always stop in local bike shops, especially Specialized shops. I have found many that discount much more than 10%. Ever hear of Erik's Bikes from the mid west? He is one of the largest Specialized dealers in the country, and his website is full of many hi end bikes discounted significantly more than 10%.

It is truely bull$hit when I can arrange a flight to the mid west(from Central New York), take a cab to the nearest dealer...buy the bike from the shop, have it shipped home, fly home, and still save hundred's of $$$ over getting the same bike locally, and that savings ain't down to sales tax savings alone either. The bigger the Specialized shops are, the looser the rules are it would seem.

I have a very good handle on hi end markup's. This latest deal with the Giant was an out of the park home run for me. This shop has the mechanic I've followed for the last ten years working there, he was the only reason that the Giant's even came on my radar. Even with a huge discount, the owner said he still made money. Add to the sale all the other trappings, new Giro Ionos helmet, carbon Keo's, carbon cage, a handful of really long stem tubes for the 404's,probably a new floor pump, and naturally a shop jersey, and it ws a pretty good trick to turn. The mechanic also rebuilt two wheel sets for me while I've been waiting for the bike to come in.

Yea I beat people up for the best price, I make no apologies for it. I work hard for my money, and the shop's have to work hard to get it too. I am fiercely loyal to my mechanic, and have to believe that the reason I got such a killer deal was more his doing than mine.

Every thing in life is negotiable, even bikes.


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## Magdaddy (Feb 23, 2007)

PJ352 said:


> I didn't get Magdaddy's logic either, but did get the distinct impression that he was looking for a reason to go with something other than Spec.
> 
> The possibility exists that the Giant is heavily discounted because of this:
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=159599



It was hard for me to get away from the Big S, I really liked the Tarmac. Ultimately, it was the price of Giant's dream ride that the shop gave me that was just too good to pass on.

And as far as that fork recall goes, more than one manufacturer was caught up in that. I have no worries.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

I can understand Magdaddy's position, though I didn't feel the way. I was happy with the product and thought it was well worth the price. I like the idea that there's a $10k pro-quality dream bike in the same family as mine, even though I would never consider buying it. Actually, I begrudgingly respect the small LBS that sticks to its guns over prices. I can spend my money elsewhere and often do. But I don't like it when the prices are dictated by Specialized and the LBS is held to account and loses allocation if they don't go by Specialized's playbook.

Another approach is to discount or negotiate everything and that leads to something like the Performance Bike Store where things are always on sale, there are frequent extra discounts and list prices are unpredictable. It turns into a game to get the sale price, the big discount code and the member discount. For me that teaches me only to buy from Performance when there's a huge discount, and that seems like a crazy way to do business too. It also leads to generally higher list prices so that they can then mark them down.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Magdaddy said:


> It was hard for me to get away from the Big S, I really liked the Tarmac. Ultimately, it was the price of Giant's dream ride that the shop gave me that was just too good to pass on.
> 
> And *as far as that fork recall goes, more than one manufacturer was caught up in that*. I have no worries.


Specialized wasn't.  
I'd venture to guess Giant manufactured all the forks for those other companies. But all that aside, fact is when there's such a recall, there's also a stigma attached to the model in question, thus the possible need to discount making the bike more desireable. Just after Reynolds recalled the Ouzo Pro, they came out with the UL.

I don't think any of this is cause for concern either, I'm merely offering the (possible) reason for the hefty discount.


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## Rubi13 (Sep 6, 2007)

Magdaddy said:


> So, you don't price shop when making major purchase's?
> 
> I have been a customer at all three of my local Spec dealers for the last ten years, they all greet me by name when I walk in, even recognize my voice on the phone. Over the years, one especially has been very upfront and honest about his markup, and how it varies across the product line, lower to upper. None of these shops stock bikes at the higher end, either road or mountain. When I'm shopping price, it's simple really. I pay cash up front for you to order the bike, what's the best you can do.
> 
> ...


I looked at Erik's site and failed to see:"his website is full of many hi end bikes discounted significantly more than 10%.".....so, can you show me?

The older the bike, the more it can be discounted....but current year models do have strict guidelines.....Erik's seems to be well within guidelines. And I'm sure he can do better when you go in the store and still be within said guidelines. You are making him sound like a price slasher with your flight...cab...buy a bike scenario and still save hundreds. Seems like a lot of hours to do this. I personally value my time too much. 

Sounds to me that your "3" local Specialized shops, for whatever the reason, don't want to work with you......maybe, and just maybe they feel that you are going to leave their store and just go to the next store and "beat people up for the best price"(your words)....so instead you got a great deal on a Giant...good for you...maybe Giants guidelines are more relaxed than Specialized. Specialized dealers get shut down every year for going out of guidelines....so do Trek dealers. Maybe Giant is a little lax due to the fact that they are trying to gain some market share. I applaud Trek and Specialized for holding the line on pricing. I think it cheapens the brand when things are discounted heavily.

And for the record, I do price shop, but, I don't beat people up on prices. Just not my way, and I seem to get pretty good deals.

It's not always about the money......cycling should be more than that...

and I'm sorry but I don't agree with your philosophy that everything in life is negotiable...bikes yes, but not everything


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## jakerider (Nov 30, 2001)

*SL2 Saxo Bank frame and fork in*

Just received my Saxo edition frame and fork in the SL2. 

Size 52 with cage bolts and seat clamp came in at 1004 gr.

Suprisingly, the saxo bank decals at the top of seat tube are removable. (these decals are not shown on team frame images on spec. site)

The paint IS bright white with blue/black accents.

I'll post up pics when finished.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

jakerider said:


> Just received my Saxo edition frame and fork in the SL2.
> 
> Size 52 with cage bolts and seat clamp came in at 1004 gr.
> 
> ...


Very cool _and_ in my size!!  
Yes, need pics (soon!)


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## Rubi13 (Sep 6, 2007)

Congrats Jakerider. I can't wait to see it in person. My Saxo frameset (56cm) shipped out yesterday. It arrives next Wed


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## Magdaddy (Feb 23, 2007)

Rubi13 said:


> I looked at Erik's site and failed to see:"his website is full of many hi end bikes discounted significantly more than 10%.".....so, can you show me?
> 
> The older the bike, the more it can be discounted....but current year models do have strict guidelines.....Erik's seems to be well within guidelines. And I'm sure he can do better when you go in the store and still be within said guidelines. You are making him sound like a price slasher with your flight...cab...buy a bike scenario and still save hundreds. Seems like a lot of hours to do this. I personally value my time too much.
> 
> ...



I in no way intended to portray Erik's as a discount store, but he certainly has aggressive pricing at times.The fly and buy deal I alluded to involved a leftover S Works Stumpy a few yeasrs ago, so you are correct about "older" bikes-still current model year though. Erik's site has 10% off listed on most 09 hi-end stuff now, and expecting to "do a little better when you get to the store" as you stated is exactly my point. As far as not getting any good(IMHO) discounts locally, I am not the only one at the three local S dealers, it's maybe just their way. 

I was talking to my mechanic at the shop today about this, he previously worked at one current, and one former S dealer. Both had the same angst over him quoting discounted prices to customers. This mechanic brings probably hundred's of customers into the shop because he is there, I'm an example of that. I have followed him to three shops over 14 years. He understands the value of discounting to his customers, some of the owners simply didn't agree.

In my (maybe warped) mind, if discount =sale, and no discount= no sale, the shop has nothing to loose and everything to gain.

Maybe you are correct that in an effort to gain market share, Giant has given dealers free reign to apply heavy discounts to their bikes. Considering how big Giant is(no pun intended), that is a reach for me really. Regardless of Giant's stance on dealer discounts, it broke my 10 year run of big S road bikes. I certainly got way more bike for the money than I could have if I had stayed with Specialized...simply because of the discount.

Thru all my babble, and confusion, you must understand my affection still for the Big S. The sheer amount of their stuff I have, is wild, and I anxiously await spring to get my Stumpy FSR back out on the trails. I mean no disrespect, nor have any ill will, toward the brand, or their fan's. Present circumstances just sent me down another fork in the road. Only time will tell if I'll be happy with the Giant. I know I'm already panicking cause I can't get all the matching Giant gear to compliment the new bike.

Anyway, enjoy your Saxo frameset, it's a beautiful bike indeed.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

> In my (maybe warped) mind, if discount =sale, and no discount= no sale, 
> the shop has nothing to loose and everything to gain.

That is the customer's viewpoint. But from the shop and Specialized's point of view, once they start discounting they reduce the ASP (average selling price) and make less money. Word gets out on the street, and then everyone wants the good discount. Competitors then discount to the same amount or more. Then they need to discount more to stay competitive and keep the customer happy, and so it goes. You also devalue your brand into a discounted brand rather than a premium brand. Next step is to lower the quality of your product to meet the new discounted pricepoints while still keeping margin. So to avoid this spiral into mediocrity the big brands quote MSRP, allow the LBS to discount a certain amount on current bikes, and hold the line firmly there. This works well during boom years where they are selling as many bikes as they make. Over the next couple of years, we'll see what happens with the new economy ...


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

A gentle reminder...
The title of this thread is *Specialized Saxo Bank team issue?* 
I know that because it says so up top (_and_ I authored it), so that being the case can we now agree to disagree on the G vs S topic and get back ON topic?

Thank you very much for your anticipated cooperation.


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## funhog1 (Jan 26, 2003)

*Wat's the fork weigh?*



jakerider said:


> Just received my Saxo edition frame and fork in the SL2.
> 
> Size 52 with cage bolts and seat clamp came in at 1004 gr.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a cool bike, Wat'd the fork weigh?


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

funhog1 said:


> Sounds like a cool bike, Wat'd the fork weigh?


uncut fork on my 2009 S-Works Tarmac SL2 weighs 400g.


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## Enzyme (Feb 4, 2009)

In the spirit of getting back on topic, I picked up my new bike today, a 2009 Specialized Tarmac Expert in the Saxo Bank colors scheme. It's the same color scheme as the pictured SL2, minus S-Works stickers. I'll post a few pictures as soon as I can.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Enzyme said:


> In the spirit of getting back on topic, I picked up my new bike today, a 2009 Specialized Tarmac Expert in the Saxo Bank colors scheme. It's the same color scheme as the pictured SL2, minus S-Works stickers. I'll post a few pictures as soon as I can.


Congrats on the new ride! I'm a little confused, though because I don't see the Saxo Bank color scheme listed as an option for the Expert.  

Of course, pics would clear that up.


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## Rubi13 (Sep 6, 2007)

PJ352 said:


> Congrats on the new ride! I'm a little confused, though because I don't see the Saxo Bank color scheme listed as an option for the Expert.
> 
> Of course, pics would clear that up.


These are not listed on the Specialized consumer site yet. As of now they have introduced 3 additional Team Saxo in addition to the S-Works ones. Tarmac Expert(double)...Roubaix Expert Compact...and a Roubaix Comp Compact. here are some photos of the Expert models.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

All of a sudden I see $$ flying out of my wallet. 

Thanks for the info and pics, but how did you know? Affiliated with Spec in some way, obviously.  

And if they're available, why aren't they up on the site??!! (A rhetorical 'question')


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## Rubi13 (Sep 6, 2007)

PJ352 said:


> All of a sudden I see $$ flying out of my wallet.
> 
> Thanks for the info and pics, but how did you know? Affiliated with Spec in some way, obviously.
> 
> And if they're available, why aren't they up on the site??!! (A rhetorical 'question')


I'm a dealer up here in the lovely, snowy northeast. I'm not sure why they aren't on the consumer site yet, but should be soon.

I have my Team Saxo frame due in on Wed. This is a big step for me. I'm trying to embrace color. This is my first non-black bike in a long time. I hope I like it as much in person as I do in the pictures. If not it's back to a black Tarmac.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

The snowy Northeast, huh? Small world. I'm 20 miles north of Albany and putting off going out to shovel the driveway. So just how close are we?


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## Rubi13 (Sep 6, 2007)

PJ352 said:


> The snowy Northeast, huh? Small world. I'm 20 miles north of Albany and putting off going out to shovel the driveway. So just how close are we?


Not too far. I live in Sturbridge MA, shop is the next town over in Southbridge. It takes me about 90 minutes or so to get to Albany if I remember correctly.

We got about a foot of snow overnight  the only plus is it's the light and fluffy variety.Still took about 2 hours to plow the driveway with the Quad.

I'm really ready for spring


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## tonytourist (Jan 21, 2009)

The shop local to me had one built up with Ultegra, good looking bike, the color scheme looks better in person.


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## jakerider (Nov 30, 2001)

*Saxo Pics*

Here is the pic of the 52cm Tarmac SL2. Weight was 15 even without bar tape.

Sram Force shifters and rear der.
D/A front der. and brakes and cassette
FSA K force lite cranks
Reynolds carbon clinchers

Save the comments on cutting the steerer tube....I know

Have not turned a pedal on it yet


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Beautiful bike, Jake! :thumbsup:


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## [email protected] (Feb 23, 2009)

(moved to proper location in forum thread)


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## [email protected] (Feb 23, 2009)

I bought the Tarmac SL2 with Saxo team colors and one week later it was stolen.

I filed an insurance claim, got settled, and went back to the same shop and purchased the SL2 in black/silver thinking it was lower profile and less likely to attract attention.

The first bike I got SRAM Red and some Ksryiums. The second bike I got Campangolo Chorus and Roval carbon clincher star wheels.

Now here is the irony. The suspected thief went to a bike shop in a neighboring city to replace the saddle. (I guess he didn't like my older harder Selle Itaila.) Only, unfortunately for him, he actually went to the very same shop that custom built the bike for me.

The bike shop called the police, held him, and stalled. And, well, the rest is a matter among police, insurance companies, and suspects.

If you live in Illinois, Spokes of Wheaton is a great place to buy a bike. They professionally fit me twice AND recovered my stolen bike. Hats off to them.

Now I find myself in the amazing position of deciding which frame to keep. Should I keep the Saxo colors or the slick black/silver? There is a photo of at least my Saxo bike here: http://spokesbikes.com/page.cfm?pageID=141


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## ksanbon (Jul 19, 2008)

My vote is to keep the Saxo Bank.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

*+1*



ksanbon said:


> My vote is to keep the Saxo Bank.


The Saxo's gotta be the keeper, IMHO. :thumbsup:


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## CarlB (Aug 26, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I bought the Tarmac SL2 with Saxo team colors and one week later it was stolen.


Curious how your bike got stolen? .... I would like to avoid the same fate. 

I'm stopping by Spokes this week to see the place, and maybe get some accessories. I bought my Roubaix at George Garner. No where big a dealer but they are just 5 miles away. I like riding in for any adjustments. And they treat me well.


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## [email protected] (Feb 23, 2009)

Police have video footage of a guy cutting through my chain with bolt cutters. I am looking at the Kryptonite Fahgettaboudit U-lock next. Forget chains and cables.

https://www.kryptonitelock.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?cid=1000&scid=1000&pid=1095

My overall plan is to take the bike in the building with me and never leave it chained anywhere. If some pros drive up with a van there is no lock that can protect all bikes.


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## CarlB (Aug 26, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I bought the Tarmac SL2 with Saxo team colors and one week later it was stolen. I filed an insurance claim, got settled,
> 
> If you live in Illinois, Spokes of Wheaton is a great place to buy a bike. They professionally fit me twice AND recovered my stolen bike. Hats off to them.


Your homeowner's insurance covered the bike? Do have a rider with increased bike coverage? Seems like typical insurance would limit bikes to a pretty low number. I have State Farm, I'll have to give them a call.

Did you get a BG Fit? 2D or 3D? Comments?

From my dealer the 3D is $150 (if you buy a bike) just $50 more then 2D so it seems like an easy choice to go 3D. I would guess Spokes has a lot more experiance then my guys doing the 3D fit, but I would guess my dealer would be more flexible with me on swapping like items.


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## [email protected] (Feb 23, 2009)

Yes I had Allstate and I called them earlier in the week to make sure the bike was covered. They only mentioned an additional sporting equipment rider that would also cover the bike in case of certain kinds of damage (not wear and tear but other unlikely things).

Allstate handled the claim very well. I was impressed with the service I got. As you can imagine this was a very stressful time for me.

The guys at Spokes do a great job with the fit. They were very concerned about my right leg and I have noticed an improvement in my spinning ever since they fit me.

In my case I gave up some older campy cleats and switched to something more mainstream and got new shoes as well.

I am very happy with Spokes. The whole shop stayed late after closing on a Saturday fitting me to my SL2. These guys are pros.


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