# solo speed versus racing in group speed



## osteomark (Jun 15, 2011)

Just a few months into this and feeling good on a road bike. I'm averaging 17mi/hr over a 20mi ride on rolling hills by myself. How does this equate to riding in a pack? Going as fast as I can down a 1/8 mi hill gets me to 36mi/hr. I outspin my pedals ( Trek 1.2 T 27 speed). So my take is it's not going DOWN a hill that keeps my average speed up, it must be the UPHILLS. I'm only around 11-12mi/hr. There is not really even a 1/4mi flat area where I live. Just wondering if I could ever average 20mi/hr. I have noticed that standing going up hill is helping to keep up my speed, albeit tiring. Guess I can start going harder up hills and pedal less down hills. Taking a few mi/hr off the down hill and conserving energy, for that 30seconds is probably going to reserve more energy to stay in the 15 mi/hr range going uphill and takes way more than 30 seconds. Thanks. Just seems like it is impossible to attain over a 20mi/hr average when soloing over a >20mi distance, unless you are a pro.


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## WaynefromOrlando (Mar 3, 2010)

I have averaged over 20 mph on a flat 12-16 mile triathlon course using clip on aero bars, standard wheels and a normal (non-aero) helmet, so it does not take a pro to hit that speed, it merely takes practice and a bit of adjustment. Discount the downhill and uphill speeds, those are so individual that there is no way to compare one to the other. I also see my average speed drop to 17-19 mph solo on rolling hills unless I am in a group or racing because I don't want to blow myself up in the first 20 miles of a 50-60 mile training day.

Practicing on hills will make your flat speeds faster as your legs will get stronger, but also doing intervals on the flats will help. Lots of plans on the web and in the cycling magazines can help you with both.

Oh, and riding in a group is a big speed enhancer, drafting behind even a single rider makes it easier to attain any given speed up to a point. Riding in a big peloton is a complete game changer, adding up to 4 or more miles to your top speed. I rode in a 40-50 rider peloton a few weeks ago and was easily maintaining 26-27 mph when in the group. When I tried a solo breakaway, it was pressed to stay above 22-23 mph and was caught in only a few minutes after my initial sprint away from the group.

To put this into context, I have been riding consistently for about 1.5 years now after a multi decade hiatus from cycling. I also run and swim as a triathlete, so I do not focus solely on cycling. I do most of my riding solo, incorporating intervals and hill training whenever possible. I have done some group riding to gain those skills for my off season riding events like the Gran Fondo Miami coming up in November. It takes time to gain speed, and months of consistent riding in a variety of environments. Still with it and you


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## osteomark (Jun 15, 2011)

Wayne,
Thanks. 40-50 bike peleton thats a nice size group. My city doesn't have 40-50 bikes
How do you start getting into races without panic that you are not going to cause or be in an accident?


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## xjbaylor (Dec 28, 2006)

osteomark said:


> Just seems like it is impossible to attain over a 20mi/hr average when soloing over a >20mi distance, unless you are a pro.


You have only been doing this a few months, it takes years to see huge gains. That is like running a 4.5 hour marathon and claiming a 3.5 hour is impossible for anyone but a pro because you can't do it. Or claiming that a center fielder can't throw a ball to home in the air because you can't. 

People are made differently, and will excel in different areas. My advice to you is this.

1. Take the computer off your bike.
2. Mix up your rides. Intervals, hill repeats, etc. during the week. Long rides on weekend. Different distances, different routes each time. 
3. Do that for 90 days then put your computer back on and ride your original 20 mile route. 
4. Realize that worrying about your speed constantly is probably holding you back. Learn to ride better and improvements will be obvious.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

osteomark said:


> Wayne,
> Thanks. 40-50 bike peleton thats a nice size group. My city doesn't have 40-50 bikes
> How do you start getting into races without panic that you are not going to cause or be in an accident?


start small 
ride in a group at a pace you are not struggling with so you can pay attention to what you are doing. let the others know you are new there and that (hopefully) you'd like some comments/suggestions to what you are doing right and what could be improved. 
later ride with faster people, later think about racing


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## Jetmugg (Sep 22, 2010)

My 2 cents:

Try to find a local Time Trial series, pin on a number, and race against the clock. That is an excellent way to benchmark your overall power output and gauge future improvements. Or, find a convenient loop and time yourself in that. It's important to have either an "out and back" route, or a complete loop, to minimize the effects that a headwind and/or tailwind may have on your pace.


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## Akirasho (Jan 27, 2004)

> Try to find a local Time Trial series, pin on a number, and race against the clock. That is an excellent way to benchmark your overall power output and gauge future improvements.


+1. Nothing like hanging it all out against a clock accurate down to a thousandth of a second...


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

osteomark said:


> Just seems like it is impossible to attain over a 20mi/hr average when soloing over a >20mi distance, unless you are a pro.


Not really the case. Top local amateurs ride a 25-mile time trial in slightly less than one hour, so they average slightly above 25 mph. The average local amateur rides it in 1:04 to 1:10, so that's about 21 - 23 mph average. Go search the web for local time trial results and see how fast riders in your neck of the woods are doing a 25-mile (40 km) time trial. Keep in mind that most of these guys use special equipment.

As to the solo / group difference: I'm the world's worst time trialer, as confirmed again yesterday when I rode the state championship 12.5-mile (65 and over) time trial course in close to 37 minutes for an average speed of just slightly above 20 mph on my Surly Pacer with clip-on bars attached for the event. However, I can hang with a group that rolls at a steady 23 mph and cranks it up briefly to 28 mph every so often on the flat. That's without working at the front, of course. Grandpa doesn't pull any more, but everyone is good with that. 

/w


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## osteomark (Jun 15, 2011)

I'll see if central NY has time trials. 
25mi/hr. Just can't see me ever doing that where I ride. I should put my Aero bars on the Trek then. Sure bums me out. I've lost 24# (down to 179#) and am 5'9" and looking to get 15# more off. I know my weight has a lot to do with it.
http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/my_routes/?
Thanks


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

I don't necessarily agree that it's going up hill not down hill that keeps average speed up but riding in a group doesn't help much when the speed is low. Aside from the mental motivation which I suppose is actually pretty big but I think you're talking about drafting and that advantage is pretty small when speeds are that low.

It's kind of pointless to strive for an arbitrary speed based on what you read others can do. I can average 20+ pretty easy on the small rolling hills where I generally ride.....yet just a few hours in any direction where the hills get bigger and steeper I have to kill myself just to average 17ish.
Average speed is only a useful measuring stick when all else is equal.....and all else is never equal.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

osteomark said:


> 25mi/hr. Just can't see me ever doing that where I ride. I should put my Aero bars on the Trek then.


Well, I should've said "_virtually flat _25-mile time trial" when talking about those top local amateurs. Aero bars certainly help, but you have to get used to them before you start seeing a significant effect. That's especially true if they stretch you out much more than your normal riding position.


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## BostonG (Apr 13, 2010)

osteomark said:


> I'll see if central NY has time trials.
> 25mi/hr. Just can't see me ever doing that where I ride. I should put my Aero bars on the Trek then. Sure bums me out. I've lost 24# (down to 179#) and am 5'9" and looking to get 15# more off. I know my weight has a lot to do with it.
> http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/my_routes/?
> Thanks


Your weight may play a small role but doesn’t have a lot to do with it. If you were climbing, then yes but the terrain is rolling. Different people have different definitions for what rolling means though. Maybe your rollers are what some would call hills?

17mph on rolling terrain over 20 miles is not terrible at all so cut yourself some slack. If you want to compete, it is something to work on, but it’s a good place to build from. I agree it may be a good idea to remove the computer for a while (lessen distraction) and concentrate on a training routine rather than riding the same course as fast as you can. The other thing to keep in mind is rest – get a lot. You may be able to get to over 20mph avg solo if you don’t have a career and growing family. If you have those, it gets a lot tougher because your consistency is thrown off easily. My performance rises and falls (usually falls!) depending on the other things I have going on in life – which is a lot. Sometimes, it becomes hard to even go out even 1x per week. I’ve learned (or am at least better now) to flow with it and accept it, otherwise, I get miserable and resentment creeps in. If you are single with no kids though, getting to your goal is realistic.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Trying to correlate solo speed vs. pack speed is very hard to do. I suspect you're still building fitness, but my gut tells me that you'd need to be a little faster and hold that pace longer. 

Your average 30 minute Cat 5 crit is going to be all out the entire time. 

Cat 4-5 road racing can be a little different. The pace will often vary from riding the brakes and crawling at a snail's pace to all out, then alternating from snail's pace to all out at random times. Staying in passively isn't generally too difficult, but it's hard to say if holding your solo pace will be sufficient or not until you try.


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## rm -rf (Feb 27, 2006)

osteomark said:


> I'll see if central NY has time trials.
> 25mi/hr. Just can't see me ever doing that where I ride. I should put my Aero bars on the Trek then. Sure bums me out. I've lost 24# (down to 179#) and am 5'9" and looking to get 15# more off. I know my weight has a lot to do with it.
> http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/my_routes/?
> Thanks


Your link goes to "my" routes, so everyone clicking will get their own routes, not yours.

Find some group rides. Do an easy one to get used to riding close to others, then find a ride that's a little too fast for you. I push way harder to keep up in a group than I would by myself, and it's fun, too.


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## osteomark (Jun 15, 2011)

Thanks everyone. I use the computer for cadence only trying to stay 80-100 rpm. The speed I deal with at the home computer. As I get stronger I can do higher reps in the smaller cogs I'm sure.
Here's my route
osteomark's Private Profile


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## TimV (Mar 20, 2007)

osteomark said:


> It's not going DOWN a hill that keeps my average speed up, it must be the UPHILLS.


You're on the right track. There is a lot more time to be made up on the climbs simply because you are spending more time doing them.



osteomark said:


> I'm only around 11-12mi/hr. Guess I can start going harder up hills and pedal less down hills. Taking a few mi/hr off the down hill and conserving energy, for that 30seconds is probably going to reserve more energy to stay in the 15 mi/hr range going uphill and takes way more than 30 seconds.


Man, I wish!!! Conserving your energy on the descents is not going to make you 25% faster on the climbs. What will make you faster on the climbs is doing more climbs. As you become familiar with yourself and with the roads in your area, you will learn just when, where, and how hard you can push the pace. Push the pace harder and harder on the climbs will make you stronger and faster. At least it has for me. Keep in mind though, that this will take time, as in weeks or months and even years.



osteomark said:


> Just seems like it is impossible to attain over a 20mi/hr average when soloing over a >20mi distance, unless you are a pro.


Not even. I did a solo ride yesterday that was 40.2 miles and 2000 vertical feet in 120 minutes flat. That's a 20.1 mph average speed. I am not even close to being a pro.


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## Zeekster64 (Dec 23, 2010)

The best speed is the one I take before my ride


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## osteomark (Jun 15, 2011)

Tim,
That is great average for 40miles! 2000ft vert. Are you standing a lot and pedaling?


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Riding at a constant speed is the worst thing that you can do. If you want to average 17, that's all right.
Ride at 15mph, then ride at 22mph for a mile. If you only ride at 17 mph, the first time the pack you are in, goes to 22-23mph, you'll be off the back.


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## monkeyzero (Aug 13, 2011)

Oh man. I started riding in high school my sophomore year. (my profile says 98 but it was actually 91). Anywho, my father and I trained together for an entire year and decided to ride the MS150 together. 
On our training rides we were up to around 18 mph average on a 65 mile ride. Leisurely and comfortable was our motto.
The first day we jumped into a pack with about 50 riders or so, right in the middle. I recall looking down and telling my dad, excitedly, that we were going 26 mph! It was awesome, for about 5 miles, when we were left behind wondering how we were gonna ride the next 50 or so. 
The reason? We never trained that fast. And we were a year in! 
We learned our lesson and changed our training. The next year we averaged 21ish for the first days 75, and around 18 for the second days 75, and i thought I was going to die. LOL. 
It takes a while.


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## Dave1442397 (May 5, 2011)

I just hit 1,000 miles on my bike after not cycling for 21 years.

When I started I was in pretty good shape from the gym, so I found I was able to keep up on the local 28-mile B ride averaging 18.5 to 19 mph depending on who was riding. I started doing that ride solo and average over 20mph easily enough. There's one nice long hill that's not very steep, and when I started my solo rides I maxed out at around 19mph going up this hill. After doing quite a few fast A rides, I am up to a max of 26.7mph going up the hill (maintaining over 26), so I definitely feel stronger.

Our local A rides are a great training tool. Like others, I am sometimes amazed when I look down and see that we're cruising at 28-30 mph. The paceline training has us up to 34-35 mph, and I still can't keep that up for too long, but at least I can hang with most of the guys on the rides.

Without the group rides, I'd be a lot slower.


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## kini (Feb 19, 2010)

"I am up to a max of 26.7mph going up the hill (maintaining over 26)"

Uphill??? Only on the internet or you should be riding the Tour.


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## osteomark (Jun 15, 2011)

Kini,
I agree. Tim how long and what % incline are they? Are you pedaling like mad and standing up?
After I walked mowing the lawn for 1 hr decided I was warmed up enough and did this ride in 1:15:59. osteomark's Private Profile.
I was trying to stand more often and did so on every hill and kept pushing my self to stand longer.This is probably why my average dropped. Hopefully I got stronger though.
I'm noticing certain gearing feels just right for standing. Usually in the middle chainring and middle cogs. The smallest ring in not enough resistance and spin too fast.


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## jmitro (Jun 29, 2011)

lots of good advice in here. I've been riding 3 months, and can see fairly fast improvements, although I know the rapid improvement will soon slow down.

osteomark - I find that too small a gear while climbing leaves me spinning too rapidly and tiring easily, while too large a gear leaves me grunting and also tiring easily. there's a gear and cadence that is just right for climbing, usually slightly lower if you sit and spin than if you stand and mash.

some of you guys post mph averages that seem way out of reach for me right now (20+avg on 40 mile ride), but I believe it's achievable.

Group rides are pretty cool if you can find a good group to get into.


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## ecoovert (Aug 17, 2014)

I'm now 52 years old and have been a type 1 diabetic now for over 50 years. Up to the age of 40, I used to average over 20 mph. on rolling hills on my regular Saturday 100 mile solo rides. This was on a standard road bike, not a tt bike. In races, or while in a group, we usually averaged over 25 mph. By the way, I have never been a pro. Hope this helps.


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## ecoovert (Aug 17, 2014)

On longer climbs it's usually best to remain seated, unless your cadence drops to below 80 to 85 rpm. or so. The best way to improve your climbing is by doing hill intervals in a seated position.


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## ecoovert (Aug 17, 2014)

Good advice mate.


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## jajichan (Jul 9, 2014)

osteomark said:


> Just a few months into this and feeling good on a road bike. I'm averaging 17mi/hr over a 20mi ride on rolling hills by myself. How does this equate to riding in a pack?


It doesn't. Has nothing to do with a pack. 

A good steady pack will have you going 23-24 without you even breathing hard. A "kill-each-other" pack will have you spit out the back a mile into your ride. 

Just find a group and try it. 

If you want to average 20 mph for an hour, get out and start riding more, making some rides very hard and others not. Give it time. Patience is key. 

But no, 20 mph is not really anything special for an amateur bike racer, much less a pro.


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## ecoovert (Aug 17, 2014)

On the flats, 20 mph. was easy on solo rides but on rolling hills it's a bit different, at least on solo rides of 80 to 120 miles on rolling hills. In group rides 27 mph. or better was common.


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## Winn (Feb 15, 2013)

I know it's Thursday but I think the idea is that you know you are "helping" someone out with a problem they had over 3 years ago...


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## ecoovert (Aug 17, 2014)

I guess your right.


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## 41ants (Jul 24, 2007)

As a previous poster mentioned it depends on your terrain. I have a feeling your definition of rolling hills is much different than mine. Being in FL we don't have hills. Well, I suppose if you count bridges, but then those aren't really rolling. In a typical road race, I don't think you would have a problem ending up with a 22mph+ avg with around 3K' of elevation. 

I am curious to learn how things have progressed over the past few years for you. Do share if you are even out there. :thumbsup:


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## sadisticnoob (Dec 6, 2009)

my normal average training ride in a group will range anywhere from 38-40kph, but do have slower rides at about 34-35 kph.

races are always around 40kph average if its a century ride.

solo i probably average around 33kph if i tried really hard


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## ecoovert (Aug 17, 2014)

I don't know if you're asking me 41ants. I'm 52 years old and am old school so I don't use Map my ride... I was in my best shape when I was in my early 40s. At that time I was able to produce 6 watts per kilo over extended periods of time. Funny thing is I wasn't even racing then. I no longer have access to a watt meter so I can't be sure how I compare to 10 years ago but I recently did an 86 mile solo ride including an 8+ mile 6% climb at over 19mph. I know 6% grade isn't particularly steep but there are some 20% sections and my granny gear is 39x23. At 52 years of age, you begin to lose some strength so I probably should consider an 11-25 or 11-26 cassette.


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## ecoovert (Aug 17, 2014)

Sounds good. Every ones posts here seem to agree that solo rides will be slower than group rides. At 52 years old, I'm happy I can still average 32kmh on rolling terrain. Most of my solo rides are 100k to 140k. My longest solo ride to date was 184km and included lots of rollers and a 16km climb averaging 6.1% grade. That was 10 years ago though. I'd have to work up to that now and probably wouldn't want to do it alone any more.


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## jajichan (Jul 9, 2014)

ecoovert said:


> At that time I was able to produce 6 watts per kilo over extended periods of time.]



How extended is "extended"?

Because, no.


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## ecoovert (Aug 17, 2014)

Extended as in 30 minutes or so.


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## jajichan (Jul 9, 2014)

ecoovert said:


> Extended as in 30 minutes or so.


You were either racing professionally at the time, you're misremembering or your power meter was very inaccurate. 

Because 6 w/kg for 30 min is pretty much inhuman.


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## DaveWC (Sep 21, 2012)

jajichan said:


> Because 6 w/kg for 30 min is pretty much inhuman.


It's the internet... and in the past. Everyone here was able to produce 6w/kg ten years ago! There should be a requirement that in order to make a statement about speed/power one must produce a Garmin file to support it. Ha ha ha.

p.s. mind you, I can just say my weight is 50kg and get there that way too!


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## ecoovert (Aug 17, 2014)

So I guess all elite cyclists are pretty much inhuman. I also guess you have to be on a professional team to be able to put out 6 watts per kilo also. Not all fit athletes race professionally. Some just work hard at pushing their limits. How many cyclists do you know who train 450 miles per week solo? Oh, I guess the mile markers must have been off also. I guess those guys that kept getting dropped by me were a figment of my imagination.

I guess us mere humans who put ourselves on the same training program and diet as the elite pros can't expect the same results they are getting because they have to be inhuman. I'm no better than the next guy who puts the same effort into solo rides. For many of us, it's not a matter of lining our shelves with trophies but more a matter of just always improving and working on our weaknesses. some of us just enjoy a real challenge. By the way, I always root for the underdogs. Perhaps some of us are driven by having been the underdogs for all of our lives, up to now at least. Some of us feel it's nice to have those who told us we couldn't, eating our dust for a change and proving them wrong. I think it's all about what drives us. 

Just so you know, my severe scoliosis prevented me from being able to ride in a tuck position for more than a couple minutes at a time. That's why I focused more on becoming a strong climber, since I would never be able to be good on the flats riding on the hoods. I started off at 155 pounds at 5'4" tall. Hitting the weights before I got into cycling, I packed on too much upper body muscle weight that I had to carry up the hills. I believe focusing on hill intervals at that weight forced me to train on the hills having to carry that extra 20 lbs. up the hills. Having eventually lost that unneeded upper body muscle and brought my body fat % from 10% to 3.5%, I managed to lose that 20 pounds while averaging 375 to 385 watts over 30 minutes. Needless to say, some days were better than others. My wattage did fluctuate as I changed positions on the bike and as my cadence changed.

I guess I had an advantage over elite pros in that I could adjust my training to fit my needs year round, not just in the off season. I guess riding solo 90% of the time and not being able to benefit from drafting tends to make you stronger also. I know I had no trouble keeping in the front of the fast training group rides and could take my turns in front but was unable to break away alone as that would require riding in a tuck position for several minutes. In the hills, where riding on the hoods is the preferred position, I usually would drop the others and almost always made it to the top of 2nd 1st and hors category climbs first. Can't use an inaccurate power meter to explain that away.


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## jajichan (Jul 9, 2014)

ecoovert said:


> So I guess all elite cyclists are pretty much inhuman. I also guess you have to be on a professional team to be able to put out 6 watts per kilo also. Not all fit athletes race professionally. Some just work hard at pushing their limits. How many cyclists do you know who train 450 miles per week solo? Oh, I guess the mile markers must have been off also. I guess those guys that kept getting dropped by me were a figment of my imagination.
> 
> I guess us mere humans who put ourselves on the same training program and diet as the elite pros can't expect the same results they are getting because they have to be inhuman. I'm no better than the next guy who puts the same effort into solo rides. For many of us, it's not a matter of lining our shelves with trophies but more a matter of just always improving and working on our weaknesses. some of us just enjoy a real challenge. By the way, I always root for the underdogs. Perhaps some of us are driven by having been the underdogs for all of our lives, up to now at least. Some of us feel it's nice to have those who told us we couldn't, eating our dust for a change and proving them wrong. I think it's all about what drives us.
> 
> ...



Elite riders are not putting out 6 w/kg. Those guys riding in the group of 5-6 at the front of the mountain stages of the Tour de France? Those are the guys that are putting out 6 w/kg.. 

Oh, but you were first or second in your group rides? I guess that's pretty much the same thing... 

You are utterly and absolutely clueless, bud.


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## ecoovert (Aug 17, 2014)

I wouldn't be posting on this site if I didn't know that. What you are saying is common knowledge. I happen to know those guys the likes of Contadore, froome and the likes are riding in the pack sheltered by their team mates for the greatest portion of the stages. They are only attaining 6 w/kg when they push it up to around 90% or so, during the final portion of a mountain top finish for example. I've been following the grand tours for 30 years or so and that's common knowledge. 

I make it a practice never to call others clueless without having proven them wrong and in a case like this, without having ridden with them or having some kind of first hand knowledge.

Your statement about my being "clueless" is merely based on your assumption that anyone able to maintain 6 w/kg for 20 - 30 min would have to be an elite pro and surely the world would know of them. It does require an elite level of fitness to be able to push out those numbers. All I'm saying is that anyone who puts the same time and effort the guys we both have seen lead those grand tours do into their training, should be able to expect similar results from their training. Of course they must inform themselves on effective training methods which is much easier to do in this computer age than when I was younger.

I'd rather encourage up and coming athletes rather than assume their claims are false without seeing them perform first hand. I know I'm on the decline now at 52 but I enjoy motivating others by proving to them that if this diabetic could reach an elite level of fitness, so can they.

Those guys in the leading group of 5-6 put their pants on one leg at a time just like the rest of us. They just focused on their goals until they reached them. They didn't get to where they are because they are superhuman. They got there through hard work. Some of us, for whatever reason, will do whatever is necessary to attain our goals. I was fortunate in that I also had the time to train 5 to 6 hours a day so I used that time to reach my goals.

By the way, you are only clueless about two things as far as I can tell, which are, who I am and what I have accomplished. To end on a positive note, I also know nothing about you.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

ecoovert said:


> I wouldn't be posting on this site if I didn't know that. What you are saying is common knowledge. I happen to know those guys the likes of Contadore, froome and the likes are riding in the pack sheltered by their team mates for the greatest portion of the stages. They are only attaining 6 w/kg when they push it up to around 90% or so, during the final portion of a mountain top finish for example. I've been following the grand tours for 30 years or so and that's common knowledge.
> 
> I make it a practice never to call others clueless without having proven them wrong and in a case like this, without having ridden with them or having some kind of first hand knowledge.
> 
> ...


sounds like aaron toy has made a comeback. 
Is the Scattante still holding up?


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## BacDoc (Aug 1, 2011)

Curious as to what power meter you were using over 10 yrs ago?

You must understand that some of us on the forum follow pro racing and/or race ourselves. The fastest pros on the elite pro teams putting out 6 watts/kilo have the benefit of: 

Age - mid 20-mid 30's is a physiological advantage.

Training - best coaching, video analysis, wind tunnel position, chiropractic, massage and nutrition.

PED - the best of the best (of course now the sport is clean oh yeah!)

When a "mere mortal" (older too) comes on and claims the same you should not be surprised that some will call you on it.

Of course you could be that strong. I've learned that you should never say never.


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## ecoovert (Aug 17, 2014)

I understand and actually agree with what you are saying. I'm guessing you have read some of my past posts and must have gathered that I no longer am able to do what I used to do. As to what power meter I was using, you might have caught that I mentioned that I no longer have access to a power meter. To answer your question, I did not have a power meter on my bike, I simply used what the gyms had on their stationary bikes. If one was not calibrated properly, they would have all had to have not been calibrated properly as I was not always able to get on the same bike. If some were not calibrated properly, I should have had different results when I got onto different bikes. That was not the case. I guess what it all really boils down to is how much power I was able to get to the pavement. In order to be able to drop the guys that I did on the hills that I did I had to have had the power to do so. As I'm sure you know, many of the training rides open to the general public, do have some very capable cyclist amongst the riders. They use these rides for training as well as to test themselves against others. I don't want to sound like I'm bragging but I can't just say nothing when someone accuses me of exaggerating. I may not have had the benefit of having my team sponsor a power meter for the road bike I trained on, but I used what was available to see if the numbers on the power meter would show evidence of what was I was experiencing on the road. Well, the answer is, as expected, they did. I understand the difference between algorithm based power meters, you know, the ones where you have to enter your weight, may HR... and power tap power meters. If I had gotten numbers like I did on the power meters and my actual performance on the road didn't reflect those numbers, I would have had reason to question the numbers. No I am no pro, nor have I ever been. If I recall what got this whole thing started was when someone indicated that those numbers were impossible from anyone who is not on the elite pro peloton. That simply is not the case. As I stated earlier, I quit racing due to my scoliosis which prevented me from being able to ride in the tuck position for long enough to bridge the gap to a successful break away. I simply found a particular discipline in cycling that I could be proficient at and became the best that I could at that. Not too many road races only race up hill and finish at the summits. Understanding this, I simply sought to push the limits of what my body allowed me to do and that's why most of my rides were solo. Not too many cyclists only want to ride up the toughest climbs. At least that's been my experience. I also discovered that finding anyone who preferred riding in the heat of the day as I did was a real problem. I did not handle to cool morning temps well at all. Perhaps that was due to my low thyroid or my diabetes but as a result I would go out on 100 mile plus rides on my own. These rides usually took me 5 hours or more as I was only able to muster 20 mph. average speeds given I couldn't ride in an aerodynamic position. If I ended up at a much higher altitude than I left from, my speeds may have been even slower. When I rode up hills of say 6.5% or so, my average speeds were usually over 13.5 mph. up the climbs. I am referring to 5 mile climbs or longer and keep in mind I had ridden to the climb solo. Oh, occasionally I would draft off of someone I caught up with and sometimes we would even work together for a while as we introduced ourselves to one another. All that was to say that I had good reason not to pursue a career in cycling, but I still loved the sport and was able to become very proficient at a discipline that I could perform while riding on the hoods. For me it was more about being as fit as I could. That helped my diabetes a great deal and was a real boot to my ego as well. Thanks for not being as negative as some have been. You seem to have more common sense than some who replied. By the way, I was in my upper 30s when I was doing so well. Needless to say I also had to master riding at a higher cadence by then. I know that today there's no way I could even come close to doing what I used to. Thanks again for your reasonable reply.


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## ecoovert (Aug 17, 2014)

Sorry but I did separate the paragraphs above but when I clicked on Post Quick Reply. The paragraphs all ran together.


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## ngl (Jan 22, 2002)

ecoovert said:


> I know 6% grade isn't particularly steep but there are some 20% sections and my granny gear is 39x23. At 52 years of age, you begin to lose some strength so I probably should consider an 11-25 or 11-26 cassette.


Do you realize pro racers will use a 11-28 or 11-30 cassette for a climb like this?


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## jajichan (Jul 9, 2014)

ecoovert said:


> Your statement about my being "clueless" is merely based on your assumption that anyone able to maintain 6 w/kg for 20 - 30 min would have to be an elite pro and surely the world would know of them.
> 
> By the way, you are only clueless about two things as far as I can tell, which are, who I am and what I have accomplished.


A liar and nothing but finishing first or second to the tops of climbs on group rides?

I'm not too clueless after all.


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## jajichan (Jul 9, 2014)

BacDoc said:


> Of course you could be that strong. I've learned that you should never say never.


No, he really couldn't. It's hilarious to even suggest there's even a slight possibility. Because there absolutely isn't.


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## redlizard (Jul 26, 2007)

If you are able to post some of your Strava hill climb KOM's, it might go a long way to silencing the bullying doubters on this forum. With your drive and talent, you must own pretty much everything within a hundred mile radius and everyone is familiar with Strava. Your VAM's must be off the charts. OK, not really off the charts, but at the top anyway.

You've downloaded their app on your phone and know how to use it, right? I'm old school (older than you) and even I was able to master the app, i.e. the pressing the start button, after the first week.

I'm good, but nowhere near as good as you and would love to see some of your data.

Us old guys have to stand together!


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## jajichan (Jul 9, 2014)

ecoovert said:


> To answer your question,* I did not have a power meter on my bike, I simply used what the gyms had on their stationary bikes.* If one was not calibrated properly, they would have all had to have not been calibrated properly as I was not always able to get on the same bike. If some were not calibrated properly, I should have had different results when I got onto different bikes. That was not the case. I guess what it all really boils down to is how much power I was able to get to the pavement. In order to be able to drop the guys that I did on the hills that I did I had to have had the power to do so. As I'm sure you know, many of the training rides open to the general public, do have some very capable cyclist amongst the riders. They use these rides for training as well as to test themselves against others.


Oh, it just gets better. 



ecoovert said:


> I don't want to sound like I'm bragging but* I can't just say nothing when someone accuses me of exaggerating.* I may not have had the benefit of having my team sponsor a power meter for the road bike I trained on, but I used what was available to see if the numbers on the power meter would show evidence of what was I was experiencing on the road. .


To be clear, I'm not accusing you of exaggerating. I'm simply saying you're misrepresenting the truth. Whether it's intentional or simply a result of you being completely clueless, I dunno.

But by all means, share more details of your stationary bike power meter and getting second on a climb on a group ride while putting out your 6 w/kg for 30 minutes.


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

The 6 w/kg is an error. The gym machine numbers are not accurate or relevant.


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## sadisticnoob (Dec 6, 2009)

This thread needs some strava files!!

Bike Ride Profile | CUHK to Tai Wo and Back near Tai Po District, Hong Kong | Times and Records | Strava
solo ride got lost while trying to go somewhere

Bike Ride Profile | 18 kilometers near Yau Ma Tei | Times and Records | Strava
on a group ride back then


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## DaveWC (Sep 21, 2012)

I remember when I was 40 I could maintain 60kph for hours on end. I must have been able to... I beat that other guy in some race to the traffic lights... he told me he was really fast too!



> Ron has estimated that the power of Schleck and Contador over the final 8km was 6.0 W/kg. I think this is close, but likely a small overestimate, because of drafting effects.
> 
> My overall estimation is that they took 49:08 to climb what I believe to be the final 17.6km at a gradient of 7.6%. This gives a VAM of 1,633 m/hour, and a relative power output of 5.9 W/kg. - Schleck & Contador's big showdown ride up the Tourmalet





> To win the Tour de France you need to be able to hold 5.9 to 6.0 watts per kg for 30 to 45 minutes at a time, 3 to 4 times over the course of a 5 to 6 hour day in the mountains. Incredible freaks of nature.


Meh, this guy up above did 6 w/kg when he was 40 (on a stationary trainer that guessed at power).


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

ecoovert said:


> I don't know if you're asking me 41ants. I'm 52 years old and am old school so I don't use Map my ride... I was in my best shape when I was in my early 40s. At that time I was able to produce 6 watts per kilo over extended periods of time. Funny thing is I wasn't even racing then. I no longer have access to a watt meter so I can't be sure how I compare to 10 years ago but I recently did an 86 mile solo ride including an 8+ mile 6% climb at over 19mph. I know 6% grade isn't particularly steep but there are some *20% sections and my granny gear is 39x23. At 52 years of age, you begin to lose some strength so I probably should consider an 11-25 or 11-26 cassette*.


Why would you use 39x23 for 20%? Lots of people can use that gear to make it up, inefficiently, but it doesn't prove they are strong it just proves that don't really know how to ride.
For someone as acomplished as yourself I'm suprised you haven't learned about cadance and efficiency somewhere along the way.

But if the 20% sections are so short that it's not worth lugging around a gear you only use for a few yards, okay, I get that. But if that's the case, what is your point in letting everyone know what gears you use. 39x23 for 6% isn't noteworthy in anyway for anyone.


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

.....


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

redlizard said:


> If you are able to post some of your Strava hill climb KOM's, it might go a long way to silencing the *bullying doubters* on this forum. With your drive and talent, you must own pretty much everything within a hundred mile radius and everyone is familiar with Strava. Your VAM's must be off the charts. OK, not really off the charts, but at the top anyway.
> 
> You've downloaded their app on your phone and know how to use it, right? I'm old school (older than you) and even I was able to master the app, i.e. the pressing the start button, after the first week.
> 
> ...


Calling people bullying doubters and then saying you'd love to see his/her data is a bit hypocritical no?

Being a student of power I would think anyone that can do 6w/kg for 30 minutes would be someone we'd be familiar with. At that power you could ride on the tops and drop very good riders on the flats. If the grade goes up even 1% most would be long gone. 

While it's possible it's very hard to believe. It could be an honest mistake of not calibrating the PM properly and his/her 6w/kg was only 5w/kg etc...


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## redlizard (Jul 26, 2007)

woodys737 said:


> *Calling people bullying doubters and then saying you'd love to see his/her data is a bit hypocritical no?*
> 
> Being a student of power I would think anyone that can do 6w/kg for 30 minutes would be someone we'd be familiar with. At that power you could ride on the tops and drop very good riders on the flats. If the grade goes up even 1% most would be long gone.
> 
> While it's possible it's very hard to believe. It could be an honest mistake of not calibrating the PM properly and his/her 6w/kg was only 5w/kg etc...


Um...yeah...definitely. Good catch.

The whole thing was done tongue in cheek, with healthy doses of hypocrisy, sarcasm, irony and passive aggressiveness. See, first, I position myself as his wing man - it's us against them, man. Then I get cynical about the app and how easy it is, since he would probably say it's too high tech for him. Now he's not sure about me allegiance. Then I ask for the data I know he can't/won't produce. He's pretty sure I'm an ass. But them I'm back to blowing smoke up his ass and stroking his ego. Finally, close with some rah-rah and middle age bonding and I'm back at his side.

OK, maybe it wasn't so clever, but I had fun. :cryin:


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

redlizard said:


> Um...yeah...definitely. Good catch.
> 
> The whole thing was done tongue in cheek, with healthy doses of hypocrisy, sarcasm, irony and passive aggressiveness. See, first, I position myself as his wing man - it's us against them, man. Then I get cynical about the app and how easy it is, since he would probably say it's too high tech for him. Now he's not sure about me allegiance. Then I ask for the data I know he can't/won't produce. He's pretty sure I'm an ass. But them I'm back to blowing smoke up his ass and stroking his ego. Finally, close with some rah-rah and middle age bonding and I'm back at his side.
> 
> OK, maybe it wasn't so clever, but I had fun. :cryin:


lol! Crafty. I like it. You must be a negotiator, lawyer or a psychiatrist.


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## ecoovert (Aug 17, 2014)

I'm 52 years old now. Posting my Strava resuls now would be pointless, if I even was equipped for Strava.


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## ecoovert (Aug 17, 2014)

Look guys, I know what I did. My speedometer was well calibrated and you are leaving out the context of my circumstances. Weather I was producing 6 w/kg or not is irrelevant when I know I regularly would climb 6.5% grade climbs ranging from 5 to 10 miles in length at 13.5mph. You being the experts on wattage ought to be able to calculate the wattage required to do that.

By the way, any climber in a grand tour would not require a 39/27 or 39/28 for a 6.5% grade. That's not all that steep. 39/21 at a cadence of 95rpm = 13.8mph. Being on the older end of the spectrum even 10 to 12 years ago, I was usually in 39/21 to 39/23 so I could keep my cadence at about 95rpm. on such a climb. Today, though I still work at it, I have a harder time turning a lower cadence. The older I get, it seems the higher my cadence needs to be for me to be able to climb moderate grades as described above. That being said, I'm no longer happy with a 11-23 cassette like I used to use but a younger, fit cyclist should be able to go up such a climb with a gear ratio of 39/23.


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## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

ecoovert said:


> I'm 52 years old now. Posting my Strava resuls now would be pointless, if I even was equipped for Strava.


Do the gyms have Strava on their stationary bikes?


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## ecoovert (Aug 17, 2014)

Well, I don't want to bring up Lance, but anyone who watched him climb knows he preferred a cadence of around 95 rpm.


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## ecoovert (Aug 17, 2014)

No, and Strava wasn't around 10+ years ago as far as I know.


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## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

ecoovert said:


> Look guys, I know what I did. My speedometer was well calibrated and you are leaving out the context of my circumstances. Weather I was producing 6 w/kg or not is irrelevant when I know I regularly would climb 6.5% grade climbs ranging from 5 to 10 miles in length at 13.5mph. You being the experts on wattage ought to be able to calculate the wattage required to do that.


Wouldn't it be easier to use the power meters the gyms had on their stationary bikes?


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## ecoovert (Aug 17, 2014)

I don't know your age but I'm still using an old flip phone, and no, I don't know how to use the app.

By the way, I can't seem to type more than about 5 words per minute on this site. Are you having the same issue?


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

ecoovert said:


> Look guys, I know what I did. My speedometer was well calibrated and you are leaving out the context of my circumstances. Weather I was producing 6 w/kg or not is irrelevant when I know I regularly would climb 6.5% grade climbs ranging from 5 to 10 miles in length at 13.5mph. You being the experts on wattage ought to be able to calculate the wattage required to do that.
> 
> By the way, any climber in a grand tour would not require a 39/27 or 39/28 for a 6.5% grade. That's not all that steep. 39/21 at a cadence of 95rpm = 13.8mph. Being on the older end of the spectrum even 10 to 12 years ago, I was usually in 39/21 to 39/23 so I could keep my cadence at about 95rpm. on such a climb. Today, though I still work at it, I have a harder time turning a lower cadence. The older I get, it seems the higher my cadence needs to be for me to be able to climb moderate grades as described above. That being said, I'm no longer happy with a 11-23 cassette like I used to use but a younger, fit cyclist should be able to go up such a climb with a gear ratio of 39/23.


just as a reference 10 miles at 6.5 % would be something like this
Strava Segment | Chamrousse 1750 depuis Embranchement D280-D111
you would have crushed that KOM sucker.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

ecoovert said:


> Look guys, I know what I did. My speedometer was well calibrated and you are leaving out the context of my circumstances. Weather I was producing 6 w/kg or not is irrelevant when I know I regularly would climb 6.5% grade climbs ranging from 5 to 10 miles in length at 13.5mph. You being the experts on wattage ought to be able to calculate the wattage required to do that.
> 
> By the way, any climber in a grand tour would not require a 39/27 or 39/28 for a 6.5% grade. That's not all that steep. 39/21 at a cadence of 95rpm = 13.8mph. Being on the older end of the spectrum even 10 to 12 years ago, I was usually in 39/21 to 39/23 so I could keep my cadence at about 95rpm. on such a climb. Today, though I still work at it, I have a harder time turning a lower cadence. The older I get, it seems the higher my cadence needs to be for me to be able to climb moderate grades as described above. That being said, I'm no longer happy with a 11-23 cassette like I used to use but a younger, fit cyclist should be able to go up such a climb with a gear ratio of 39/23.


A few posts ago we had watt numbers and you made special mention of there being sections of 20% along with the 39x23 gearing.

Now it's sounding more like: "I was on a climb that I'm guessing is 6.5% and when I looked down at my compluter it was usually 13.5......10 or 5 miles, makes no difference, 13.5"

At least the BS is getting a bit more shallow. Perhaps we can take off our boots now?


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## DaveWC (Sep 21, 2012)

den bakker said:


> just as a reference 10 miles at 6.5 % would be something like this
> Strava Segment | Chamrousse 1750 depuis Embranchement D280-D111
> you would have crushed that KOM sucker.


He did crush that just recently. Ha ha ha.



ecoovert said:


> I can't be sure how I compare to 10 years ago but I recently did an 86 mile solo ride including an 8+ mile 6% climb at over 19mph. I know 6% grade isn't particularly steep but there are some 20% sections and my granny gear is 39x23.


At 19mph he left that KOM in the dust (20.6 kph or 12.8 mph). And that was a recent ride. Seems this could be very easily settled by just test riding a Garmin 501 for one ride & posting the result. Oh right, that will never happen.


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## DaveWC (Sep 21, 2012)

btw, he used to be even better. (by used to, I mean on an earlier post, his first post on the forum, again on a 3 year old thread)



ecoovert said:


> That makes me feel good. I am a type 1 diabetic but only raced a few amateur races years ago. I later improved on my fitness even more after moving to a region where there were some real hills. At that time I was producing 425 watts average over a 30 minute test period. At that time I weighed 143 lbs. That's over 6.5 watts per kilo. I was considered a good climber in my area back then. I didn't realize jut how good I guess.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

DaveWC said:


> He did crush that just recently. Ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> At 19mph he left that KOM in the dust (20.6 kph or 12.8 mph). And that was a recent ride. Seems this could be very easily settled by just test riding a Garmin 501 for one ride & posting the result. Oh right, that will never happen.


maybe he should ride the full climb doing a wheelie. To make it fair.


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## ecoovert (Aug 17, 2014)

Yep! Sure looks like it.


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## Warpdatframe (Dec 9, 2012)

You'd be surprised how many people actually do this, "usually when I look at my Garmin I'm more or less doing 20mph, looks like my average speed is 20mph." Same goes for power. But not many (I mean 0) recreational cyclist have over a 6 w/kg ftp. If they did, they would probably be signing a dotted line sometime soon. I train 15+ hours a week to maybe hit 5.5 w/kg on a few times a year, If I'm lucky.


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## DaveWC (Sep 21, 2012)

Warpdatframe said:


> I train 15+ hours a week to maybe hit 5.5 w/kg on a few times a year, If I'm lucky.


\

5.5 w/kg for a 30 minute stretch?


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

ecoovert said:


> Look guys, I know what I *THINK* did.


There fixed it for you.

I have no doubt you were (are) strong BUT you never did 6watts per kilo for 30 mins mate. Ever.


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## ecoovert (Aug 17, 2014)

The key word is (probably) Some don't like the idea of living out of motels and hotels for most of the year. Some just want to push themselves to the limit and some do train more than 15 hours per week. I myself used to train over 20 hours per week. You must also keep in mind that it was not 6 w/kg over the entire 400 to 450 miles per week but only during the climbs. As I stated earlier, my severe scoliosis prevented me from maintaining a tuck position so this greatly reduced my average speeds on the flats, more than my climbing ability could make up for. That prevented me from being a real challenger on a U.C.I team. 

Most of my rides consisted primarily of hills with at least 1 cat 2 or above climb. I had no choice but to become a very good climber in order to maintain my 20mph. average speed. My average speeds were higher on the flats than on the hilly terrain I preferred but even a seasoned pro, able to produce 6 w/kg would not be able to maintain 25-27 mph. solo while riding on the hoods. Before becoming the leader of a team they must be able to prove themselves. Imagine riding in a time trial while in an upright position. If one could be competitive in that position, their would be no need for aero bars.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

den bakker said:


> sounds like aaron toy has made a comeback.
> Is the Scattante still holding up?


I wish I could find that thread that was a funny read


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## DaveWC (Sep 21, 2012)

ecoovert said:


> You must also keep in mind that it was not 6 w/kg over the entire 400 to 450 miles per week but only during the climbs.
> 
> Most of my rides consisted primarily of hills with at least 1 cat 2 or above climb. I had no choice but to become a very good climber in order to maintain my 20mph. average speed.


It would literally take you one ride to prove any of what you are posting. Just borrow a Garmin 501, test ride one from your LBS and post the results. And don't tell us that these illusive 6 w/kg rides are in your past. According to you they are still very recent.



> but I recently did an 86 mile solo ride including an 8+ mile 6% climb at over 19mph. I know 6% grade isn't particularly steep but there are some 20% sections and my granny gear is 39x23.


So just redo that ride and since it was a recent ride, surely you can come close to duplicating that effort. Either that or accept that you've come to a bike forum to expound upon your fictitious unfulfilled dreams of grandeur. The details you provide mean nothing when you could easily just post actual details of a ride done this week.


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## ecoovert (Aug 17, 2014)

Funny mate. You seem to think it isn't possible unless your on a U.C.I team such as Team Sky. That kind of low expectation mentality will only lead to failure mate.


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## DaveWC (Sep 21, 2012)

ecoovert said:


> Funny mate. You seem to think it isn't possible unless your on a U.C.I team such as Team Sky. That kind of low expectation mentality will only lead to failure mate.


Dude, I'm 53. I know how fast I ride, I know what my power is. I don't make up glory stories of yesteryear and post them here with zero evidence to support them. In your mind all a person has to do is say that they did 6 w/kg and that's evidence enough. I'm not saying it isn't possible for an amateur to do this. I am saying that anyone can make up sh!t and pass it off as reality. You'd shown zero evidence of doing anything but sit at a keyboard.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

ecoovert said:


> That prevented me from being a real challenger on a U.C.I team.



I think it's more the fact that you never produced 6watts per kilo for 30 mins.


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## ecoovert (Aug 17, 2014)

It would if I were still at the age I was when I did this. I know you won't argue the fact that at 52+ years of age, it just isn't going to happen. I'd be happy if I could produce 
5 w/kg now. You can remain skeptical, but never say never.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

ecoovert said:


> It would if I were still at the age I was when I did this. I know you won't argue the fact that at 52+ years of age, it just isn't going to happen. I'd be happy if I could produce
> 5 w/kg now. You can remain skeptical, but never say never.


No i can easily say never.


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## DaveWC (Sep 21, 2012)

ecoovert said:


> It would if I were still at the age I was when I did this. I know you won't argue the fact that at 52+ years of age, it just isn't going to happen. I'd be happy if I could produce 5 w/kg now.


I'd be happy to see you do that too. But I'm betting you'd be hard pressed to muster 4 w/kg for 30 minutes. Prove me wrong.

And your current age shouldn't enter this discussion as you also said this...



> but I recently did an 86 mile solo ride including an 8+ mile 6% climb at over 19mph. I know 6% grade isn't particularly steep but there are some 20% sections and my granny gear is 39x23.


Just do that again, but with a Garmin.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

ecoovert said:


> The key word is (probably) Some don't like the idea of living out of motels and hotels for most of the year. Some just want to push themselves to the limit and some do train more than 15 hours per week. I myself used to train over 20 hours per week. You must also keep in mind that it was not 6 w/kg over the entire 400 to 450 miles per week but only during the climbs. As I stated earlier, my severe scoliosis prevented me from maintaining a tuck position so this greatly reduced my average speeds on the flats, more than my climbing ability could make up for. That prevented me from being a real challenger on a U.C.I team.
> 
> Most of my rides consisted primarily of hills with at least 1 cat 2 or above climb. I had no choice but to become a very good climber in order to maintain my 20mph. average speed. My average speeds were higher on the flats than on the hilly terrain I preferred but *even a seasoned pro, able to produce 6 w/kg would not be able to maintain 25-27 mph. solo while riding on the hoods*. Before becoming the leader of a team they must be able to prove themselves. Imagine riding in a time trial while in an upright position. If one could be competitive in that position, their would be no need for aero bars.


You're completely pulling this stuff our of your arse.


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## ecoovert (Aug 17, 2014)

I don't need to know my power output to know at what speed I climb. I can't help the fact that it would be pointless to prove my current power. Surely you don't expect us to believe your power today is the same as when you were in your 20s and 30s.

Weather you believe it or not really doesn't matter much to me as I was there. 

I never intended to prove anything about myself but simply used myself as an example to answer the group vs solo question.


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## DaveWC (Sep 21, 2012)

ecoovert said:


> I don't need to know my power output to know at what speed I climb. I can't help the fact that it would be pointless to prove my current power. Surely you don't expect us to believe your power today is the same as when you were in your 20s and 30s.


I reposted your previous b.s. about a recent ride & I'll do it again...



> but I recently did an 86 mile solo ride including an 8+ mile 6% climb at over 19mph. I know 6% grade isn't particularly steep but there are some 20% sections and my granny gear is 39x23.


Nowhere does it mention power. So again, just get a Garmin & do a ride anywhere near 19mph on an 8 mile 6% climb with some 20% sections. 

Let's face it, you've done all of your previous rides with zero monitoring equipment other than a rudimentary speedometer and you're guessing at the actual details of the rides. I'm not saying it's not possible that you were a fast rider. I am saying that you never had the equipment to substantiate your claims & you don't need to make up details to make the point you were trying to make. The problem is you're more interested in puffing out your chest hoping that people will believe your claims. Consider your very first post upon joining this forum...



ecoovert said:


> That makes me feel good. I am a type 1 diabetic but only raced a few amateur races years ago. I later improved on my fitness even more after moving to a region where there were some real hills. At that time I was producing 425 watts average over a 30 minute test period.


It's all absolute b.s. You're taking old memories and adding made up statistics to make yourself feel better. Just ride your bike & enjoy it... no one is buying this crap.


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## DaveWC (Sep 21, 2012)

ecoovert said:


> Surely you don't expect us to believe your power today is the same as when you were in your 20s and 30s.


btw you said your fictitious 6w/kg power was in your 40's. I am definitely faster & have more power now than in my 40's. Two days ago I had a PB on one of my Sufferfest rides.


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## Warpdatframe (Dec 9, 2012)

Yes, 330w at 60kg, but I think my stages reads low compared to all of my teammates SRMs.


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## sadisticnoob (Dec 6, 2009)

I am in my mid 20s and according to my strava file i average 39kph and im not even 6 watts/kg

Bike Ride Profile | 33 kilometers near Singapore | Times and Records | Strava

i feel like a big loser


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## DaveWC (Sep 21, 2012)

sadisticnoob said:


> i feel like a big loser


Ha, don't. ecoovert had a different story to tell 5 years ago...



> My average speeds are usually between 19.8 to 20.2. The first 6 miles of my rides I am warming up and the last 6 miles also are a warm downs. Those 12 miles bring my average down some but I want to know the total distance of my rides so I include them in my average. Someday I guess I should start my computer after my warm up and stop it during my warm down to get a more accurate average. I know I am somewhat fit but have a severe scoliosis wich prevents me from being able to remain in a tuck for any length of time. For this reason I don't race. I also don't have a schedule that would allow it. I did race in a few amateur races about 20 years ago while living in France and never was able to get over the hills. I have since started working on my weakness and feel my climbing ability has come a long way. I know I am much more fit than when I raced. In case you were wondering, I never won a race in France. I guess I just enjoy pushing myself and want to know what my fitness level is.


Notice the absolute lack of statistics regarding power, % grade etc. Notice the "weak climbing ability", "somewhat fit", "never won a race". And now, in retrospect he was pushing 6w/kg.


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## ecoovert (Aug 17, 2014)

I think everyone including myself reading this thread knows the stats you posted. Thy stationary wasn't exactly guessing but even if it were, how many w/kg are required to go up a 10 mile 5.8% grade which tops off at just over 5,100' in 38 minutes 36 seconds? Well, let's see, that makes the average speed at least 15.54 mph. which would for my weight of 135 pounds on a 16.5 pound bike 370.18 watts is the answer. I weighed 135 pounds which translates to 61.235kg. which = 6.045 w/kg.

That was not a real steep climb but when leaving from Bellingham, WA starting from 94 feet altitude, the summit was 57 miles from my house. There are plenty of undulations before you get to the base of the climb. On the 114 mile round trip the total elevation gain was 11,700'. This was the Mount Baker climb up to artist point and I did it often since it was the only reasonably tough climb within riding distance from my home.

The math is there for you to dissect. What really matters isn't what your wattage numbers are, but how fast you are on the road. It's simple to calibrate your speedometer and the mile markers attested to the accuracy of my speedometer. I also checked all of the distance's on my DeLorme Topo USA software.

You see, when I was in my late 30s and up to 40 years of age, vey few if any amateur cyclists had power meters on their bikes back then. For that reason, I went to the gym to use the only means of measuring my power available to me. It may just have been luck, but the wattage readings on the stationary bikes at the gym coincided with my results on the road. Distance, altitude gain and average speed...


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