# 11-36 SRAM road cassette



## rickhotrod (Apr 16, 2009)

Now that SRAM is bringing out a 10 speed 11-32 road cassette with the APEX groupset, do you think we will see them introduce an 11-36 road cassette when APEX goes 11 speed?


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## m_s (Nov 20, 2007)

Wait, what?

What indication do you have that SRAM is EVER going 11 speed?

And if this is a serious question, you could use an 11-36 XX cassette and rear derailleur with road shifters.


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## Chuck_ MI (Nov 14, 2009)

Sram's already got an 11-36 cassette in ten speed:
http://www.sram.com/en/XX/products/cassette.php


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## rickhotrod (Apr 16, 2009)

m_s said:


> ...you could use an 11-36 XX cassette and rear derailleur with road shifters.


The 10 speed 11-36 is not a road cassette, it's an MTB cassette with big gaps.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

When Apex goes 11-spd?? I guess it's an interesting question, if way premature.

In the Apex brochure, SRAM really talks up how compact crank + wide-range cassettes = no need for road triples anymore. 
So I guess road 11-36 is possible, who knows.
.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

PS- Notice I said *road* 11-36. Everyone already knows about the mtn 11-36 in SRAM XX.
.


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## meat (Aug 10, 2006)

How would a road 11-36 differ from a mountain 11-36? At 10 speeds each I don't understand the question.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

11-36 is not a road cassette

that has to be a mountain cassette


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## m_s (Nov 20, 2007)

rickhotrod said:


> The 10 speed 11-36 is not a road cassette, it's an MTB cassette with big gaps.


You're giving me a headache dude.

The gaps have to happen somewhere for a given range and cog count. An 11-36 10 speed cassette has a range of 25 teeth, but (of course) 10 cogs. Upping the tooth count one at a time along the range of the cog gets you to 11-21. The spread has to be made up somehow, which means mostly gaps of 2 teeth or greater since you have to make up a 25t difference with "only" 10 cogs. The "road" and "mountain" designation is meaningless. Calling it a road cassette does not automatically change these inherent mathematical characteristics.

I'll just ignore the 11 speed comment because (1) it wouldn't do that much to change the gap widths (you might get the equivalent of a 10 speed 11-34 but with an extra 36 at the end) and (2) there has been no indication SRAM is going to use 11 speed for its high end groups, much less Apex.


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## rickhotrod (Apr 16, 2009)

m_s said:


> Upping the tooth count one at a time along the range of the cog gets you to 11-21.


A 10 speed cassette 11-21 has sprockets in the following sizes: 11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,21. This is not single tooth spacing throughout as there is no 20 sprocket.

SRAM calls their 10 speed 11-32 in the APEX groupset a road cassette. If you add a 36 sprocket on the end you get an 11 speed 11-36. Sure, a 10 speed 11-36 MTB cassette and a 10 speed 11-32 ROAD cassette won't have a huge amount of difference in their spacing, but the 11-32 will be closer. More importantly, SRAM sell it as part of a ROAD groupset so it is a ROAD cassette.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

I've been trying to figure out why someone is so worried about a 11-36 cassette for an 11 speed setup, when SRAM hasn't even mentioned about the release of an 11 speed system. 

Kinda putting the cart before the horse.


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

frdfandc said:


> I've been trying to figure out why someone is so worried about a 11-36 cassette for an 11 speed setup, when SRAM hasn't even mentioned about the release of an 11 speed system.
> 
> Kinda putting the cart before the horse.


Because. . .



> SRAM calls their 10 speed 11-32 in the APEX groupset a road cassette. If you add a 36 sprocket on the end you get an 11 speed 11-36. Sure, a 10 speed 11-36 MTB cassette and a 10 speed 11-32 ROAD cassette won't have a huge amount of difference in their spacing, but the 11-32 will be closer.


So it would make a kind of sense for SRAM to introduce 11 speed at the APEX level to better accommodate 11-36, i.e. provide the range without larger gaps than the MTB 11-32.

IMO, it would make several other kinds of sense for SRAM to do nothing of the sort, but there you go.


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## locobaylor (Mar 11, 2008)

wouldn't it just be easier to ride more and get better that way? If not, then i can't wait for SRAM's 15 speed 33-79.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

locobaylor said:


> wouldn't it just be easier to ride more and get better that way?
> 
> If not, then i can't wait for SRAM's 15 speed 33-79.


Don't give them any ideas. :shocked:
.


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## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

So if I use a road 11-36 cassette on my mountain bike, will the cassette make me go faster on the road to the trail head than if I used a mountain 11-36 cassette?


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## rickhotrod (Apr 16, 2009)

locobaylor said:


> wouldn't it just be easier to ride more and get better that way?


Some riders need surprisingly low gears while they are getting fit. Also, some riders will never get fit (health problems, old age, etc), but still want to ride their bike.

As SRAM don't offer a triple, even a super compact 48/32 combined with an 11-36 could be a good option for some.


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## rickhotrod (Apr 16, 2009)

Jwiffle said:


> So if I use a road 11-36 cassette on my mountain bike, will the cassette make me go faster on the road to the trail head than if I used a mountain 11-36 cassette?


The ROAD 11-36 cassette would be 11 speed, so closer spaced than the 10 speed 11-36 MTB cassette.

If the ROAD 11-36 is (11,12,13,15,17,19,22,25,28,32,36) and the MTB 11-36 is (11,12,13,15,17,20,24,28,32,36) you will have more difficulty controlling your cadence in the 17 to 28 sprocket range when on the 10 speed MTB cassette. So yes, the 11 speed ROAD cassette will help you go faster.

The MTB 11-36 might have different sprocket sizes to what i have given in the example, but the principle remains the same.


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## DieselDan (Sep 14, 2002)

Regardless if it is a 10 speed or 11 speed cassette, you will need an MTB derailleur to accommodate that big cog. The cassette doesn't care if your riding smooth asphalt or rough singletrack, you just need the right derailleur and shifter for it.


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## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

Sorry, I was just trying to be funny, pointing out the hilarity of calling an 11-32 or 11-36 (10 or 11 spd) a road cassette when it would be the exact same cassette if used on a mountain bike. Back in the day mountain bikes came with 13-28 freewheels, which we would now consider road bike gearing and not mountain bike gearing.

But I think the biggest stretch is why are you wondering what is going to be years down the line? Campy 11 is only available at the high end. If and when Sram comes out with 11 speeds, it would probably come out on Red, or maybe Force. Then another few years as the tech trickles down.

Also, are there any road hubs capable of taking a 36t? Shimano states that their 12-36 cassette should only be used on a limited series of hubs because the torque may break many hubs.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

DieselDan said:


> Regardless if it is a 10 speed or 11 speed cassette, you will need an MTB derailleur to accommodate that big cog. The cassette doesn't care if your riding smooth asphalt or rough singletrack, you just need the right derailleur and shifter for it.


And we've now come full circle to the beginning of this thread. Will the new Apex 11 speed, if there is a new Apex 11 speed, have an 11-36 cassette with all the associated hardware necessary to operate it?  As has been pointed out, without an announcement there's no way to tell. I'm really proud when I can climb on the big chainring, but honestly, I'd like to see lower gearing for the long hauls and insanely steep stuff. My knees would thank SRAM.


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## rickhotrod (Apr 16, 2009)

Jwiffle said:


> Sorry, I was just trying to be funny, pointing out the hilarity of calling an 11-32 or 11-36 (10 or 11 spd) a road cassette when it would be the exact same cassette if used on a mountain bike. Back in the day mountain bikes came with 13-28 freewheels, which we would now consider road bike gearing and not mountain bike gearing.
> 
> But I think the biggest stretch is why are you wondering what is going to be years down the line? Campy 11 is only available at the high end. If and when Sram comes out with 11 speeds, it would probably come out on Red, or maybe Force. Then another few years as the tech trickles down.
> 
> Also, are there any road hubs capable of taking a 36t? Shimano states that their 12-36 cassette should only be used on a limited series of hubs because the torque may break many hubs.


It's not always obvious whether a cassette/freewheel is ROAD or MTB gearing. Sometimes it could be either. It just depends what the manufacturer decides to call it.

Letting manufacturers know what riders want is a good idea. One of my earlier threads (maybe a year or so back) was discussing the benefits of a wide range ROAD cassette with a 32 sprocket. Look what's happened...SRAM has taken the idea up with the APEX groupset.

Using a 36 rear sprocket doesn't put any more torque through the rear hub with a ROAD double than using a smaller rear sprocket with a ROAD triple because the triple uses a smaller chainring.


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## locobaylor (Mar 11, 2008)

rickhotrod said:


> If the ROAD 11-36 is (11,12,13,15,17,19,22,25,28,32,36) and the MTB 11-36 is (11,12,13,15,17,20,24,28,32,36) you will have more difficulty controlling your cadence in the 17 to 28 sprocket range when on the 10 speed MTB cassette. *So yes, the 11 speed ROAD cassette will help you go faster*.


I beg to differ. A cassette won't help you go any fast. It may make it easier on your body to maintain a certain speed, but to go faster? No. I mean, think about it. Higher gears make the bike go faster; so why would putting lower gearing on a bike help with speed?


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## martino (May 11, 2009)

rickhotrod said:


> Some riders need surprisingly low gears while they are getting fit. Also, some riders will never get fit (health problems, old age, etc), but still want to ride their bike.
> 
> As SRAM don't offer a triple, even a super compact 48/32 combined with an 11-36 could be a good option for some.


thank god there's someone out there with more than cog wheels spinning between his ears! i'm a member of the "health problems, old age, etc" club and i dream about the day when i can mount a 48/32 combined with 11/36 on a road bike. but then i ride for personel pleasure, not to impress anyone with some preconcieved notion about what a true roady should be riding :thumbsup:


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

locobaylor said:


> I beg to differ. A cassette won't help you go any fast. It may make it easier on your body to maintain a certain speed, but to go faster? No. I mean, think about it.
> 
> Higher gears make the bike go faster; so why would putting lower gearing on a bike help with speed?


Well, if I'm understanding Rick correctly, he's saying you'll go faster in the sense that, with smaller jumps, you'll be more likely to find the 'perfect' gear/cadence for maximum efficiency, and this will help you go a bit faster.

We've all experienced this, small jumps are better than large jumps, and it can definitely help a little bit when that 'just right gear' is halfway between two cogs on a 'sette that has larger jumps than you'd like.

Far as your 'how does lower gearing make you go faster' question goes, I think at least some of us have experienced the unpleasantness of grinding up a long, steep climb while significantly overgeared. You want a lower low gear, and it's just not there.

So your cadence drops off a cliff, and you just can't make as many watts as you normally would. It's not efficient, and it's more exhausting too. 

So in that case, yeah, lower gears would make you faster.
.


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## yakobo (Aug 22, 2006)

Suitable low gearing is a matter of brains over brawn, or need we say brains over vanity. Many cyclists don't realize they would be better off with lower gearing because they have never tried riding a bike on long hills with lower gears. And with more cyclist finding that spinning at 90 rpm is more efficient, it calls for lower gearing for the long hills. Sram's innovation is a welcome development. I just wonder why the 11, or even the 12, is necessary, unless people want to race downhill. I'd prefer closer gearing in the 16-19 range. Also, as mentioned above, a 48-32, or even a 46-30, compact seems to me like a market niche among older/heavier recreational riders waiting to be tapped.


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## locobaylor (Mar 11, 2008)

yakobo said:


> Suitable low gearing is a matter of brains over brawn, or need we say brains over vanity. Many cyclists don't realize they would be better off with lower gearing because they have never tried riding a bike on long hills with lower gears. And with more cyclist finding that spinning at 90 rpm is more efficient, it calls for lower gearing for the long hills. Sram's innovation is a welcome development. *I just wonder why the 11, or even the 12, is necessary,* unless people want to race downhill. I'd prefer closer gearing in the 16-19 range. Also, as mentioned above, a 48-32, or even a 46-30, compact seems to me like a market niche among older/heavier recreational riders waiting to be tapped.


Some people ride places where they have strong tailwinds and even spin out of the 11 or 12.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

locobaylor said:


> Some people ride places where they have strong tailwinds and even spin out of the 11 or 12.


I have to wonder how many of those ppl just don't know how to spin (or just don't want to), and want to be in a [email protected] rpm in those situations, 'cuz that's the only cadence they can/will do. 

Not sayin' it's everybody, but I've known ppl like that. 
.


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## akatsuki (Aug 12, 2005)

Rather than go 11-speed, they can just as easily go some triple variation in the front. It would make more sense since the third gear multiplies available ratios. Call it a touring group adjunct at the Apex level so they don't have to lose all that pro-compact marketing.


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