# The "Quiver Killers"



## Rashadabd

I think this is an interesting segment of bikes. They are not being marketed as gravel bikes and they clearly are not cyclocross bikes. They tend to be in the style of your traditional endurance bike, but they have room for much wider wheels and tires, which makes them ideal for riding faster on all types of terrain. I don't know that I buy the argument that they provide anything that a good cx or gravel bike doesn't, but I really like the "new" features that a few of them bring to the table. I am interested in hearing others' thoughts:

1) The BMC Roadmachine:


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## Rashadabd

2) The Focus Paralane:


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## Rashadabd

3.) The 2017 Specialized Roubaix:


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## Rashadabd

4). The Canyon Endurace:


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## Rashadabd

5.) The Trek Domane SLR:


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## Rashadabd

All things considered, I think I like the BMC Roadmachine the most. It seems like it has a little racier geometry, appears to be more aero, but doesn't give up much in the weight or ride quality departments. The Focus Paralane is the most affordable by a significant margin and yet it is still one the lightest bikes in this group. The Trek Domane adds compliance features without much of a weight penalty. The greatest thing about these bikes in my opinion though is the ability to add a super wide wheelset like the new Enve 4.5 AR wheels. Here's a side by side comparison of three of the bikes and more on the wheels:

https://cyclingtips.com/2016/06/bmc...d-focus-paralane-birds-of-a-feather-all-road/


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## Rashadabd




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## Rashadabd




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## heybrady

I see no reason that the 'endurance' bikes should not have clearance for 38c tires. In the real world, this opens the bikes up to much more use cases and has a very insignificant penalty in the aero department due to the extra clearance for what amounts to 1cm of extra room on the fork bridge. 

I could go with a cx bike, but I dont need the geo designed for short, sprinty races. I want a 'road bike' that can also be used off-road on a gravel/towpath as well. I get that a 25c tire can be used on crushed stone, but a 35c would be better for 99% of riders.


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## Jay Strongbow

heybrady said:


> I see no reason that the 'endurance' bikes should not have clearance for 38c tires. In the real world, this opens the bikes up to much more use cases and has a very insignificant penalty in the aero department due to the extra clearance for what amounts to 1cm of extra room on the fork bridge.
> 
> I could go with a cx bike, but I dont need the geo designed for short, sprinty races. I want a 'road bike' that can also be used off-road on a gravel/towpath as well. I get that a 25c tire can be used on crushed stone, but a 35c would be better for 99% of riders.


I think it's far less than 99% but I pretty much agree with what you're saying. 

My gravel/cx/whatever you call it has room for 40mm tires. When I bought it I thought at 145 pounds there's no way in heck I'd ever use something that big but there was no down side to having that room so why not. Well, a couple rides though the woods with all the roots and protruding rocks made it pretty clear I could definitely benefit from 40mm tires for those type rides. 
What's great about this type of frame is I can do those type of rides with 40s then thrown on 25s and have a bike fully capable of fast road riding. It's like having two completely different bikes for the price of two sets of tires.


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## aclinjury

Before all the dominantly road bike companies jump on the cx/gravel scene, there was Niner making their BSB cx bike. If I were to get a gravel/cx/endurance bike, which is essentially what this topic is about, I would fancy getting the Niner BSB.

However, living in Socal, there is nowhere to use a gravel/cx bike, other than to use them in a cx event, and even in these cx events, the courses are often man made and not a natural terrain. Same with gravel around here, there is no gravel roads.

now, mountain biking, on the other hand, is very popular here and there are lots of mtb trail around here. Lately, I've seen some of the hippity-hip roadies wanting to get into "dirt" and so they bring out their cx/gravel bikes onto the dirt... but really, all these bikes are good for is fireroads. There is no way these bike would make for a good singletrack tool. Guess my point is, for Socal market, these bikes are not practical, it's like they're average at many things but good at nothing for the Socal road and mtb scenes.


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## BikeLayne

I like a road bike that is comfortable off road also. I have one myself only in steel. I was going to do some gravel today but I just got a text from my friend to ride and he sticks to the road only. Anyway the ride is on and I am out of here for a while.


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## Rashadabd

Jay Strongbow said:


> I think it's far less than 99% but I pretty much agree with what you're saying.
> 
> My gravel/cx/whatever you call it has room for 40mm tires. When I bought it I thought at 145 pounds there's no way in heck I'd ever use something that big but there was no down side to having that room so why not. Well, a couple rides though the woods with all the roots and protruding rocks made it pretty clear I could definitely benefit from 40mm tires for those type rides.
> What's great about this type of frame is I can do those type of rides with 40s then thrown on 25s and have a bike fully capable of fast road riding. It's like having two completely different bikes for the price of two sets of tires.


That's what I am seeing as well. Great post.


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## Rashadabd

aclinjury said:


> Before all the dominantly road bike companies jump on the cx/gravel scene, there was Niner making their BSB cx bike. If I were to get a gravel/cx/endurance bike, which is essentially what this topic is about, I would fancy getting the Niner BSB.
> 
> However, living in Socal, there is nowhere to use a gravel/cx bike, other than to use them in a cx event, and even in these cx events, the courses are often man made and not a natural terrain. Same with gravel around here, there is no gravel roads.
> 
> now, mountain biking, on the other hand, is very popular here and there are lots of mtb trail around here. Lately, I've seen some of the hippity-hip roadies wanting to get into "dirt" and so they bring out their cx/gravel bikes onto the dirt... but really, all these bikes are good for is fireroads. There is no way these bike would make for a good singletrack tool. Guess my point is, for Socal market, these bikes are not practical, it's like they're average at many things but good at nothing for the Socal road and mtb scenes.


I have only spent a little bit of time in SoCal, so I definitely can't disagree with your assessment. I will only point out that the bikes listed above have been designed for pure road riding not gravel roads at all. That's part of what makes them interesting in my opinion. It seems to be pure road road riders that are raving above the new Enve AR 4.5 wheels the most as well. The benefits of running wider wheels and tires is just as present on the road (less rolling resistance, larger contact patch, etc.) and that is of value regardless of where you ride.


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## heybrady

aclinjury said:


> Before all the dominantly road bike companies jump on the cx/gravel scene, there was Niner making their BSB cx bike. If I were to get a gravel/cx/endurance bike, which is essentially what this topic is about, I would fancy getting the Niner BSB.
> 
> However, living in Socal, there is nowhere to use a gravel/cx bike, other than to use them in a cx event, and even in these cx events, the courses are often man made and not a natural terrain. Same with gravel around here, there is no gravel roads.
> 
> now, mountain biking, on the other hand, is very popular here and there are lots of mtb trail around here. Lately, I've seen some of the hippity-hip roadies wanting to get into "dirt" and so they bring out their cx/gravel bikes onto the dirt... but really, all these bikes are good for is fireroads. There is no way these bike would make for a good singletrack tool. Guess my point is, for Socal market, these bikes are not practical, it's like they're average at many things but good at nothing for the Socal road and mtb scenes.


Exactly my point. A SoCal rider could take a Synapse disc (for example) and be happy on 25s for the road. However someone here in Ohio can buy that same bike and out some 35 or 38 on for gravel. (In my dream world at least). 

On a related note, I am considering the Niner RLT. Geo similar to a road bike (instead of cx) with clearance for larger tires. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BikeLayne

I like the Paralane and the BMC. The BMC is green which is 10x better then that flat black that almost every bike is. Iceland looks like a beautiful place.


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## Rashadabd

BikeLayne said:


> I like the Paralane and the BMC. The BMC is green which is 10x better then that flat black that almost every bike is. Iceland looks like a beautiful place.


I pretty much agree on all three points. BMC did a nice job with the paint schemes they used on the entire Roadmachine lineup IMO. Here's a new article comparing some of the bikes again. 

BMC Roadmachine 01 Ultegra review - BikeRadar


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## Rashadabd

Here's a review for the Paralane: 

Review: Focus Paralane 2017 | GRAN FONDO Cycling Magazine


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## BikeLayne

Bikes like that could be very popular since we have all sorts of on/off road choices for any type of bike.


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## Rashadabd

BikeLayne said:


> Bikes like that could be very popular since we have all sorts of on/off road choices for any type of bike.


I agree. When you start adding in a few aero and race oriented features, these suddenly become the ideal choice for many recreational riders in my opinion. They are built for going fast for lots of miles over all kinds of terrain. Lots to like.


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## Rashadabd

I came across a new addition to the Quiver Killer club. Here's the Eddy Merckx 525 Disc. It has pretty legit aero features, clearance for 30mm tires, two geometry options, and still might be the lightest bike in this group. It's pretty pricey, but very cool.

6.) Eddy Merckx 525 Disc






More info:

2017 Eddy Merckx EM525 Disc Performance first look - BikeRadar USA


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## Rashadabd




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## BikeLayne

Here is a link to the Jamis series of on/off road bikes. They have models in carbon or steel. Possibly the steel bike is a little more off road then I would want but it is pretty cool for 2K. The first link is a photo of the steel version and the second link is a video that shows first carbon then steel. 

renegadeexploit


https://youtu.be/8boqEoSFmDg


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## Rashadabd

BikeLayne said:


> Here is a link to the Jamis series of on/off road bikes. They have models in carbon or steel. Possibly the steel bike is a little more off road then I would want but it is pretty cool for 2K. The first link is a photo of the steel version and the second link is a video that shows first carbon then steel.
> 
> renegadeexploit
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/8boqEoSFmDg


Not bad at all. I think I would spend the extra $400+ and get then entry level Paralane over that, but it seems like a solid option if you are leaning more toward gravel grinding/racing than road riding. 

https://www.focus-bikes.com/us_en/24561-paralane-tiagra.html


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## BikeLayne

Rashadabd said:


> Not bad at all. I think I would spend the extra $400+ and get then entry level Paralane over that, but it seems like a solid option if you are leaning more toward gravel grinding/racing than road riding.
> 
> https://www.focus-bikes.com/us_en/24561-paralane-tiagra.html



I think I would also go with the Tiagra Paralane. That puts a real nice bike in a budget that I could live with if I found myself shopping for a new bike. I like a steel bike and all but the Jamis 2K model comes in at 24.5lbs. It's in the current road bike mag issue which is why I knew of it. Toss in some pedals, seat pack, pump and water and you are now pushing upwards of 30 lbs. I guess the weight is all in the wheels as a tig welded Reynolds 631 frame with carbon fork is not a heavy set up.


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## aclinjury

BikeLayne said:


> Here is a link to the Jamis series of on/off road bikes. They have models in carbon or steel. Possibly the steel bike is a little more off road then I would want but it is pretty cool for 2K. The first link is a photo of the steel version and the second link is a video that shows first carbon then steel.
> 
> renegadeexploit
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/8boqEoSFmDg


in the youtube video above, I know all the trails filmed in it. El Moro, Palm Springs (wind farm), Back Bay, SART. Interesting to see the places you know so well being filmed in an advert! I can say a few things. Almost everyone who rides El Moro rides a mountain bike. Nobody rides on the sand of Palm Spring wind farm. SART is nice and easy at the upper part (filmed in the video), but as you get to the lower part, that Jamis ain't gonna cut it. Back Bay is just nicely paved river trail type of trail that any bike, even tricycles, will do. Nice Jamis commercial!


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## Rashadabd

BikeLayne said:


> I think I would also go with the Tiagra Paralane. That puts a real nice bike in a budget that I could live with if I found myself shopping for a new bike. I like a steel bike and all but the Jamis 2K model comes in at 24.5lbs. It's in the current road bike mag issue which is why I knew of it. Toss in some pedals, seat pack, pump and water and you are now pushing upwards of 30 lbs. I guess the weight is all in the wheels as a tig welded Reynolds 631 frame with carbon fork is not a heavy set up.


Exactly. I agree 100%.


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## BikeLayne

aclinjury said:


> in the youtube video above, I know all the trails filmed in it. El Moro, Palm Springs (wind farm), Back Bay, SART. Interesting to see the places you know so well being filmed in an advert! I can say a few things. Almost everyone who rides El Moro rides a mountain bike. Nobody rides on the sand of Palm Spring wind farm. SART is nice and easy at the upper part (filmed in the video), but as you get to the lower part, that Jamis ain't gonna cut it. Back Bay is just nicely paved river trail type of trail that any bike, even tricycles, will do. Nice Jamis commercial!



I think I know where that is. On the way to Phoenix where my son graduated from the University this year we went through a wind farm area on the highway near Palm Springs. There was a good hamburger place there. It had a Harley inside on display and the place had a retro atmosphere. It was fun. Forgot the name of the place. The burger was not in the same league as Inn and Out. 

Yeah if you are riding sand then you need some big tires. Is Jamis bikes down south someplace?


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## aclinjury

Rashadabd said:


> I have only spent a little bit of time in SoCal, so I definitely can't disagree with your assessment. I will only point out that the bikes listed above have been designed for pure road riding not gravel roads at all. That's part of what makes them interesting in my opinion. It seems to be pure road road riders that are raving above the new Enve AR 4.5 wheels the most as well. The benefits of running wider wheels and tires is just as present on the road (less rolling resistance, larger contact patch, etc.) and that is of value regardless of where you ride.


true, I agree these road bikes are versatile. But being in socal, I just don't see their versatility being as applicable fully to the extent like in a place like wet Washington or some rural East coast town (we don't have rural places in Cali, mostly urban and boonies and nobody lives in the bonnies).

these bikes are also expensive to start. I don't think a "recreational" cyclists would be willing to drop over $1000 for any bike. Around here, the folks most likely to buy these bikes are the cyclists higher up in the "snob" ladder, not a highend all out cycling snob, but definitely not a recreational weekend dad.

on the topic of wider tires, they're good I have no qualm. Only thing about them is that they can be squirmy under extreme power, like during a sprint, and their handling is just vague as mud under power. I just cannot imagine sprinting with a 28-35c tire with like 50-60 psi, they'd feel like mud. As for rolling resistance, honeslty to me it doesn't matter much, because of my riding is in a group going at a fast pace, that means body and body positioning, and bike handling, are much more important. Just a slight change in body positioning or a slight change in your line while drafting can dramatically increase your required power to 100+ W too keep up when going at 25-28+mph. Most of the major cycling roads in Socal are smooth. Tarmac here is smooth for the most part, smoother than that rolling drum they use to test tire rolling resistance on


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## Rashadabd

aclinjury said:


> true, I agree these road bikes are versatile. But being in socal, I just don't see their versatility being as applicable fully to the extent like in a place like wet Washington or some rural East coast town (we don't have rural places in Cali, mostly urban and boonies and nobody lives in the bonnies).
> 
> these bikes are also expensive to start. I don't think a "recreational" cyclists would be willing to drop over $1000 for any bike. Around here, the folks most likely to buy these bikes are the cyclists higher up in the "snob" ladder, not a highend all out cycling snob, but definitely not a recreational weekend dad.
> 
> on the topic of wider tires, they're good I have no qualm. Only thing about them is that they can be squirmy under extreme power, like during a sprint, and their handling is just vague as mud under power. I just cannot imagine sprinting with a 28-35c tire with like 50-60 psi, they'd feel like mud. As for rolling resistance, honeslty to me it doesn't matter much, because of my riding is in a group going at a fast pace, that means body and body positioning, and bike handling, are much more important. Just a slight change in body positioning or a slight change in your line while drafting can dramatically increase your required power to 100+ W too keep up when going at 25-28+mph. Most of the major cycling roads in Socal are smooth. Tarmac here is smooth for the most part, smoother than that rolling drum they use to test tire rolling resistance on


I can agree with most of that. A couple of these bikes do have affordable/more affordable options though. As outlined above, the Paralane starts @ $2500 for a complete bike and that's the same exact 907g frame you get on the high end bike. BMC starts the the Roadmachine @ $2999, but the frame weighs about 200g more than the 01 and lacks some of the aero features, the new Roubaix starts @ roughly $2600 (Fact 10R Carbon), etc. Again, one of the benefits here is that you don't have to run the wider tires, you can when the terrain and ride call for it, but you can basically have two bikes in one with these models. Put on your 25mm-28mm road tires and you have a fairly standard endurance race bike. Slap on some 28mm-35mm tires and you have a bike that is ideal for adventure riding on fire/gravel roads, etc. I think that's the appeal, but like you said, it may not have much utility in SoCal and similar areas.


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## BikeLayne

aclinjury said:


> true, I agree these road bikes are versatile. But being in socal, I just don't see their versatility being as applicable fully to the extent like in a place like wet Washington or some rural East coast town (we don't have rural places in Cali, mostly urban and boonies and nobody lives in the bonnies).
> 
> these bikes are also expensive to start. I don't think a "recreational" cyclists would be willing to drop over $1000 for any bike. Around here, the folks most likely to buy these bikes are the cyclists higher up in the "snob" ladder, not a highend all out cycling snob, but definitely not a recreational weekend dad.
> 
> on the topic of wider tires, they're good I have no qualm. Only thing about them is that they can be squirmy under extreme power, like during a sprint, and their handling is just vague as mud under power. I just cannot imagine sprinting with a 28-35c tire with like 50-60 psi, they'd feel like mud. As for rolling resistance, honeslty to me it doesn't matter much, because of my riding is in a group going at a fast pace, that means body and body positioning, and bike handling, are much more important. Just a slight change in body positioning or a slight change in your line while drafting can dramatically increase your required power to 100+ W too keep up when going at 25-28+mph. Most of the major cycling roads in Socal are smooth. Tarmac here is smooth for the most part, smoother than that rolling drum they use to test tire rolling resistance on


 I was just down in the LA area a few weeks ago and I did not see anyplace to ride bikes at all. IT's just traffic signals in every direction for eternity. I suppose So Cal has more to it then the LA area but I do not know my way around or anything.


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## aclinjury

BikeLayne said:


> I was just down in the LA area a few weeks ago and I did not see anyplace to ride bikes at all. IT's just traffic signals in every direction for eternity. I suppose So Cal has more to it then the LA area but I do not know my way around or anything.


LA center is HORRIBLE! I would never even consider that a riding place. You need to go outside of LA center, go to the local mountains. For example, go to the Santa Monica mountains (lots of pros and continental teams train here this time of year, I see team Canada train here 2 times, also met the Optum continental team a few years back). Go to Angeles Crest Highway (beautiful and serene on Sunday). Go to Crystal Lake, go to Glendora Mountain. Go north to Ventura. Palos Verdes is a nice place to ride, lots of cyclists ride there.

Or you could head south to Orange County, which is where I'm at. IMO, south Orange County is a VERY cyclist friendly area, as friendly as it'll get in a metro area. I ride to Oceanside often (going thru one of the biggest Marine base, Camp Pendleton). It helps to have a local cyclist show you around though.


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## BikeLayne

aclinjury said:


> LA center is HORRIBLE! I would never even consider that a riding place. You need to go outside of LA center, go to the local mountains. For example, go to the Santa Monica mountains (lots of pros and continental teams train here this time of year, I see team Canada train here 2 times, also met the Optum continental team a few years back). Go to Angeles Crest Highway (beautiful and serene on Sunday). Go to Crystal Lake, go to Glendora Mountain. Go north to Ventura. Palos Verdes is a nice place to ride, lots of cyclists ride there.
> 
> Or you could head south to Orange County, which is where I'm at. IMO, south Orange County is a VERY cyclist friendly area, as friendly as it'll get in a metro area. I ride to Oceanside often (going thru one of the biggest Marine base, Camp Pendleton). It helps to have a local cyclist show you around though.


It sounds good that places are around. I am not going to take a bicycle down for a ride however. It's to far.


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## Migen21

This thread is timely. I've been in quiver reduction mode since I saw the press release for the BMC Road Machine.

I sold an SLR-01, a carbon "Endurance" bike, and a 29'er that were sitting in my garage mostly unridden.

I have a couple of other bikes I'm considering selling to get my current quiver down to 1 before I buy the road machine. 

If the road machine could take about 37mm gravel tire, I could reduce the quiver of bikes to ONE (with two sets of tires) which would be ideal. 

As it is, I'll be keeping my gravel bike with 37mm tubeless gravel tires, and the Road Machine (once I convince myself to pull the trigger). This is all the bike I really need, at least until they come out with a bike similar to the Road Machine that I can swap the gravel wheels to. 

My heart is set on the RM-01 with Ultegra Di2 and Enve 4.5 AR Disc wheels. My brain hasn't quite made the leap yet though. One thing I'm really kind of struggling with is the Seatpost retention system. Being a 'SuperClyde', I have some concerns that it might be a problem down the road. I'm really wanting to see of others have issues with them before I fork over that kind of money. Especially after reading about the issues with the new Tarmacs. I'm also not 100% sold on the proprietary stem business. I still need to figure out the fit details before I know if the thing will even fit, although I did test ride an RM-02 in 61cm and it felt great fit-wise.


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## Aadub

Some sweet rides here, especially the Focus. My quiver killer would be on a similar spec but titanium with a bit more clearance. 2 wheelsets with a set of 28mm slicks and 36-40mm knobbies.

Bike design is progressing in a positive direction, IMO.


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## Migen21

aclinjury said:


> Before all the dominantly road bike companies jump on the cx/gravel scene, there was Niner making their BSB cx bike. If I were to get a gravel/cx/endurance bike, which is essentially what this topic is about, I would fancy getting the Niner BSB.
> 
> However, living in Socal, there is nowhere to use a gravel/cx bike, other than to use them in a cx event, and even in these cx events, the courses are often man made and not a natural terrain. Same with gravel around here, there is no gravel roads.
> 
> now, mountain biking, on the other hand, is very popular here and there are lots of mtb trail around here. Lately, I've seen some of the hippity-hip roadies wanting to get into "dirt" and so they bring out their cx/gravel bikes onto the dirt... but really, all these bikes are good for is fireroads. There is no way these bike would make for a good singletrack tool. Guess my point is, for Socal market, these bikes are not practical, it's like they're average at many things but good at nothing for the Socal road and mtb scenes.


Salsa has been making bikes like this for a long time as well...


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## BikeLayne

Mostly they just made up categories, names and all that. In 1975 I bought an Eisentraut sport/touring bike and it would ride road, gravel, hardpack no problem. I always liked an all around bike myself that I could pretty much go wherever I felt like within limits of the ride of course. I still do the same thing after all this time. Just a couple of bikes later. 

.


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## Migen21

BikeLayne" said:


> Mostly they just made up categories, names and all that. In 1975 I bought an Eisentraut sport/touring bike and it would ride road, gravel, hardpack no problem. I always liked an all around bike myself that I could pretty much go wherever I felt like within limits of the ride of course. I still do the same thing after all this time. Just a couple of bikes later.




No is claiming to have invented anything. You can ride any bike you want anywhere you want. And you can call your bike anything you want. I had a nice rigid 29'er that made a great adventure/gravel bike, and if I wanted to, I could surely ride it on the road all day long. I would never compare it to anything mentioned in this thread in any meaningful way.

Can we please not turn every thread into 'my steel bike does all that' conversation? It's getting kinda tired.

If you don't want a fancy new carbon gravel/adventure/all road bike, that's fine. I don't hold any hard feelings about it, I promise.


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## bubble

Migen21 said:


> My heart is set on the RM-01 with Ultegra Di2 and Enve 4.5 AR Disc wheels. .... Being a 'SuperClyde'


Last bike i built i went with an oversized (steel) tube set, properly stiff custom 28 spoke wheels, a sprinter's cockpit, and the stiffest premium fork i could find. Also set it up with a drivetrain that could run a 1:1 low gear if necessary- multi day rides, dirt, bikepacking. I'm barely a clyde, but this bike is AWESOME. Easily the fastest descending/cornering/sprinting bike i've owned, surprisingly the most comfortable, and i haven't had to do anything but brake pads/cables/chain in 10k of riding and lots of trialsy/dirt screwing around; i feel like it's indestructible. The ~300g weight penalty is nothing.

Seriously, a bike set up for your physique kicks the pants off a mass production bike designed for someone 50-100lbs smaller.


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## BikeLayne

Migen21 said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> No is claiming to have invented anything. You can ride any bike you want anywhere you want. And you can call your bike anything you want. I had a nice rigid 29'er that made a great adventure/gravel bike, and if I wanted to, I could surely ride it on the road all day long. I would never compare it to anything mentioned in this thread in any meaningful way.
> 
> Can we please not turn every thread into 'my steel bike does all that' conversation? It's getting kinda tired.
> 
> If you don't want a fancy new carbon gravel/adventure/all road bike, that's fine. I don't hold any hard feelings about it, I promise.


My post had nothing to do with carbon vs steel. It had to do with giving names to different bike styles. In 75 an all around bike was called a sport touring bike. Now it's adventure bikes.. From my perspective I think Adventure bike has a better ring to it. 

We have a nice gravel road close to the house. It's a tough ride due to some severe pitches. In the history of Strava there are only 9 names on the segment going East. The gravel segment is just to the summit and I am 9 out of 9. The easier way is going West as you do most of the climbing on pavement before the gravel section. There are 24 names on that list and I am 20th. 

Country ride in the mountains. No signals and very few cars. No bike riders however except a few of us locals. People from the city come out every weekend to ride but they always stick to the pavement. I think people from San Jose like to come out and do Cienaga Valley which is a beautiful loop of hills, ranches, some wineries, or climb Freemont Peak which is a challenge.


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## Jay Strongbow

BikeLayne said:


> We have a nice gravel road close to the house. It's a tough ride due to some severe pitches. In the history of Strava there are only 9 names on the segment. I am 9 out of 9 on the list. So from my perspective in spite of all the options to buy a bike to ride that stretch it seems there are not many people wanting to experience an adventure. It's worthwhile if you like gravel, pavement, riding in beautiful mountains (Diablo range) no traffic signals for the 35mile loop and virtually no cars. You can see why only 9 people would like that.


FYI; It's possible to experience a ride and like a certain ride or type of ride without downloading stava data for it.


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## grvlgrndr

this my quiver killer. Cannondale Slate with Surly Knards, updated gearing and dropper post.


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## BikeLayne

Jay Strongbow said:


> FYI; It's possible to experience a ride and like a certain ride or type of ride without downloading stava data for it.


Well I rode bikes for about 40 years without Strava but the world moved on and now I have a gadget and Strava is fun and for free. I guess your point is that maybe somebody rode their bikes out there without Strava and I would say that's true. I rode it many times before the net. Strava or not I have yet to see another cyclist out there. And my point was that it's a fun and challenging ride and nobody to speak of is going out there on an adventure bike or a regular road bike as I do.


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## BikeLayne

grvlgrndr said:


> this my quiver killer. Cannondale Slate with Surly Knards, updated gearing and dropper post.


How does that bike ride. Does it feel different making a right turn as opposed to a left turn?


----------



## Jay Strongbow

BikeLayne said:


> Well I rode bikes for about 40 years without Strava but the world moved on and now I have a gadget and Strava is fun and for free. *I guess your point is that maybe somebody rode their bikes out there without Strava* and I would say that's true. I rode it many times before the net. Strava or not I have yet to see another cyclist out there. And my point was that it's a fun and challenging ride and nobody to speak of is going out there on an adventure bike or a regular road bike as I do.


Yes, that was my point. I'd go one further too and GUESS that there is a reverse correlation between off-pavement riders and strava use too. The people I've met who are really into gravel and trails don't strike me as the strava type whereas the typical (asphalt) roadie does.


----------



## grvlgrndr

BikeLayne said:


> How does that bike ride. Does it feel different making a right turn as opposed to a left turn?


 It is a little different right to left when you first get on it but after a few rides it becomes natural. Most right turns I have been on are descending with a strong crosswind from the left and most of the left hand turns on my usual ride are off camber so it requires a bit more effort and I am not sure whether it is because of the Lefty or the conditions. I have gotten used to it after my few rides on the bike, but the steering is pretty twitchy to me as I spent the last 12 years exclusively mountain biking and this is my return to road biking. I like this bike and the versatility it offers. I have ridden road, gravel and light singletrack on it and it is a blast.


----------



## BikeLayne

Jay Strongbow said:


> Yes, that was my point. I'd go one further too and GUESS that there is a reverse correlation between off-pavement riders and strava use too. The people I've met who are really into gravel and trails don't strike me as the strava type whereas the typical (asphalt) roadie does.



I did not really want to get into a strava thing. It was just a point to show that Adventure bikes are not out on an adventure in a great place to do that. However to ride Browns Valley you have 29miles of regular country road and the gravel section is 6.1 miles. It's the basic loop and I certainly would upload the ride. I have a yearly goal and I upload every ride to reach that.


----------



## TricrossRich

I got my "quiver killer" out for some gravel riding this past weekend, right within the hustle and bustle of New Jersey. My good old Allez with 27's on it. LOL


----------



## BikeLayne

TricrossRich said:


> I got my "quiver killer" out for some gravel riding this past weekend, right within the hustle and bustle of New Jersey. My good old Allez with 27's on it. LOL


Nice bike and nice photo.


----------



## aclinjury

This may not be a pure road bike, but boy it's a beauty


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## TmB123

BikeLayne said:


> How does that bike ride. Does it feel different making a right turn as opposed to a left turn?


Have a look at this review, they do mention that it turns right easier than left
LA VELOCITA - Cannondale Slate 105


----------



## BikeLayne

aclinjury said:


> This may not be a pure road bike, but boy it's a beauty
> 
> View attachment 316992



It's very nice. I really like the color scheme on it.


----------



## TricrossRich

BikeLayne said:


> Nice bike and nice photo.


Here's a closer look.


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## Rashadabd

Bike Radar discussed this topic in their latest bike trends video & article:

Top 5 road bike trends in 2017 - Video | Cyclingnews.com


----------



## DrSmile

At least here in the US, I have a very hard time believing these bikes are selling well. My reasoning:

1) The mountain bike market is dead. This would appeal more to that crowd than roadies.
2) This would be great for dirt trails that are found in the SouthWest and Rockies. Not so much on the East Coast, where a significant chunk of the high end bike market is. The market is therefore more limited.
3) Existing bike owners are more reticent to buy equipment that is not backward compatible. The need for new wheels specifically will drive the take-up rate down. Combine this with the fact that millennials mostly ride fixie and ride in cities and the market becomes very limited for newer, affluent buyers.
4) The younger generation either doesn't bike, is obese and sedentary, or lusts after Teslas, and is therefore more interested in electric bikes than bikes that get you healthy.

Can any of the shop owners comment on how well these bikes are selling?


----------



## Migen21

You didn't mention the Pacific Northwest, with our thousands and thousands of miles or forest and fire roads, many of which are connected by hundreds of miles of rail trails (paved and unpaved). This kind of riding can be found all over the pacific coast between San Francisco and Vancouver Canada.

Our local BMC shop has been selling an average of about 4 road machines a week since they got them in stock. That doesn't count the online purchases (build and ship). I'm not sure how those are doing. They also sell a *lot* of Norco Search's, which have been available since early 2015. They are more budget friendly that some of the other options out there. 

I'm pretty sure Trek is doing pretty well with the new Domane that ships with 32mm tires, and I know there was a huge fuss over the the specialized shop when the new Roubaix showed up. 

And this is all in an area where Cross racing is getting more and more popular, and many people already own Cross bikes as well as road and mountain bikes.


----------



## JSR

I am very interested in a bike of this class, for three main reasons:


My back is starting to hurt as I get older. A more upright position and forgiving ride would be helpful.
I moved to Oregon a year ago. Road surfaces are generally ok, but there are many paved trails with iffy surfaces and the occasional gravel stretch.
Fenders are pretty much mandatory here in winter, especially on club rides. My steel Lemond provides very little room for this.

My next road bike will have disc brakes. Because that's what I want and I don't care to discuss it.

My next frame will be carbon fiber. Because that's what I want and I don't care to discuss it.

On a slight tangent I will point out that riders in my club show up with everything from folding bikes to gravel grinders to tourers to racers. I find this type of inclusiveness refreshing compared the poseur attitude in SoCal (myself firmly among the coppers of 'tude).


----------



## DrSmile

Migen21 said:


> You didn't mention the Pacific Northwest, with our thousands and thousands of miles or forest and fire roads, many of which are connected by hundreds of miles of rail trails (paved and unpaved). This kind of riding can be found all over the pacific coast between San Francisco and Vancouver Canada.
> 
> Our local BMC shop has been selling an average of about 4 road machines a week since they got them in stock. That doesn't count the online purchases (build and ship). I'm not sure how those are doing. They also sell a *lot* of Norco Search's, which have been available since early 2015. They are more budget friendly that some of the other options out there.
> 
> I'm pretty sure Trek is doing pretty well with the new Domane that ships with 32mm tires, and I know there was a huge fuss over the the specialized shop when the new Roubaix showed up.
> 
> And this is all in an area where Cross racing is getting more and more popular, and many people already own Cross bikes as well as road and mountain bikes.


True, I omitted the NW. I could see how discs are helpful in the rainforest... but, that doesn't make my argument any weaker. They're bikes for regional, not national or global markets. Giant sales seem to agree:

Giant Sees Sales Drop in 2016 - Bike Europe


----------



## heybrady

I get your point that the gravel bike is not for everyone but what would be the harm in taking the Defy and allow clearance for a 38mm tire instead of the 28mm now? It takes 1cm of more room in fork and rear clearance, Which will not make any aero difference and also allow those riders who don't need the off-road abilities to run a standard road tire without issue. Done. Now Giant would not have extra inventory because they have segmented their road market now into 5 categories instead of 3. 

Trek is on the right path with Domane 32mm tires. Slate is a good idea but too aggressive for many (and so many proprietary parts) but a Synapse with 10 mm more clearance would be great. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PBL450

OK, so people want extra heavy upright bikes with drop bars to ride dirt roads? I don't have miles of gravel so I can't get that lure, but a group ride on that must suck X 1,000. If you have to climb, the weight is a penalty, if you have wind then the position is a penalty. If you don't have any performance goals, then it doesn't matter one bit. Ride a beach cruiser. I have some amazing dirt roads near me that I can ride in the tire track easily on my Conti 23s (granted, at least 25s in reality) with no problem at all. My fatty rides the beach a LOT and snow when I can, and trails when the notion hits me. No quiver killer is going to impact that. None. I'm sticking to my extremist tendencies. A road bike and a not at all, even in a million years, non-road bike. I wouldn't want drop bars on trails for anything... or in the snow, even less so!


----------



## Rashadabd

A friendly note to RBR members:

*The fact that you do not own something does not mean it is unnecessary or bad. 

*The fact that you do not like something does not make it unnecessary or bad. 

*The fact that other people like things that you do not own or like is evidence that others have preferences that differ from your own. 

*Finally, none of us are pros and very few, if any, of us are elite racers, so all this stuff we are arguing about involves marginal gains at best. In fact, most of us don't have the fitness nor the flexibility and fit to maximize the benefits of whatever bikes we are riding. In essence, this is all just for kicks and giggles when you really think about it. 

So, please do you and let others do them.


----------



## BikeLayne

PBL450 said:


> OK, so people want extra heavy upright bikes with drop bars to ride dirt roads? I don't have miles of gravel so I can't get that lure, but a group ride on that must suck X 1,000. If you have to climb, the weight is a penalty, if you have wind then the position is a penalty. If you don't have any performance goals, then it doesn't matter one bit. Ride a beach cruiser. I have some amazing dirt roads near me that I can ride in the tire track easily on my Conti 23s (granted, at least 25s in reality) with no problem at all. My fatty rides the beach a LOT and snow when I can, and trails when the notion hits me. No quiver killer is going to impact that. None. I'm sticking to my extremist tendencies. A road bike and a not at all, even in a million years, non-road bike. I wouldn't want drop bars on trails for anything... or in the snow, even less so!


Is the Paralane and extra heavy bike? I have never seen one but it looks like a pretty normal bike with 28mm tires to me. I bet it is of normal comparable weight to other bikes in the price range.


----------



## Migen21

I don't know what qualifies as "Extra Heavy" in PBL's world, but the roadmachine (nor any of the bikes listed) is NOT a heavy bike. Nor is the geometry particularly relaxed or upright. In fact it's more aggressive and has a shorter head tube than the BMC Gran Fondo, which was used in Paris Roubaix and other classics by the BMC team the last few years. 

As long as disc brakes are still allowed in the Peloton when racing season starts, I'm pretty sure we'll see pro's on bikes like these, particularly in the cobbled classics, etc...


----------



## bubble

I think this is a really neat segment. There's a lot of interpretations of what a quiver killer should be like, and that makes them a little tricky to lump all together. For my part, i HATE riding gravel. HATE. But i don't race, love to descend, and can do some pretty awesome rides by connecting one lane roads with a mile or two of single/doubletrack and getting to the top of another tiny road. These bikes do that great. My own bike is built up with this style riding in mind- sturdy (but still light) wheels, wide ratio gears, and just a touch more relaxed than a road race bike. 

I've spent some time on the new roubaix, and it's pretty cool. It doesn't have the lazy floppy feel of the old one and i was able to get the bars down low enough for my preferred fit (and then raised them 10mm). Your hands are kinda disconnected from the grip, but i got used to it quickly and the tip-in with the steering was super direct and it didn't mush around under power. Really neat bike. 

I hope this segment takes off; with the right execution you give up very little speed for a bike with a huge happy place.


----------



## PBL450

Rashadabd said:


> A friendly note to RBR members:
> 
> *The fact that you do not own something does not mean it is unnecessary or bad.
> 
> *The fact that you do not like something does not make it unnecessary or bad.
> 
> *The fact that other people like things that you do not own or like is evidence that others have preferences that differ from your own.
> 
> *Finally, none of us are pros and very few, if any, of us are elite racers, so all this stuff we are arguing about involves marginal gains at best. In fact, most of us don't have the fitness nor the flexibility and fit to maximize the benefits of whatever bikes we are riding. In essence, this is all just for kicks and giggles when you really think about it.
> 
> So, please do you and let others do them.


All true. But you don't need to be an elite rider to want to pedal a 16lb bike up a hill instead of a 25lb bike. Tires get heavy. 25 or 28 maybe not a huge difference but you are getting there... And position matters. A lot. Again, if you have no performance goals who cares, but your position on the bike is going to have an effect. You don't need to be an elite rider to want or to notice gains made by aerodynamics and your position on the bike is the most significant percentage of aerodynamic drag. Much of this segment comes with wider tires and a more upright position. Maybe not all of the segment, but then, those that don't have adventure traits, what makes them a different segment than a road bike? 

A friendly note to RBR members: If you don't want to hear differing opinions don't post yours on the internet.


----------



## Rashadabd

PBL450 said:


> All true. But you don't need to be an elite rider to want to pedal a 16lb bike up a hill instead of a 25lb bike. Tires get heavy. 25 or 28 maybe not a huge difference but you are getting there... And position matters. A lot. Again, if you have no performance goals who cares, but your position on the bike is going to have an effect. You don't need to be an elite rider to want or to notice gains made by aerodynamics and your position on the bike is the most significant percentage of aerodynamic drag. Much of this segment comes with wider tires and a more upright position. Maybe not all of the segment, but then, those that don't have adventure traits, what makes them a different segment than a road bike?
> 
> A friendly note to RBR members: If you don't want to hear differing opinions don't post yours on the internet.


Don't be silly man. None of these bikes comes anywhere near 25lbs. In fact, you are pretty much typically talking a difference of 18lbs or so vs. 16lbs or so and that's really my point. Most people aren't going to feel that difference. Like many have said on here, if that 2lbs bothers you that much, empty a water bottle, pack a lighter saddle bag, and/or just lay off of the doughnuts for a week, buy a different bike, etc. I have ridden multiple times with people that have a bike that is slightly heavier than mine and it really is non-issue for the most part even on challenging climbs. Unless you are a racer and/or maxing out on the performance end already, you are still talking about marginal gains, which it seems a bit silly to stress and argue over if you are in it for fun and fitness. Moreover, you can get many/most of these bikes down to the 16lb-17lb range if that matters to you as well. That's the point we are making. There's not much of a downside (really) and there are some real benefits. Room for wider tires is what makes the biggest difference, that and new compliance features.

Finally, I don't mind differences of opinion, I actually like discussing the pros and cons of different bikes. What gets old and annoying is people who come on here and act like the option they are in love with is the only logical option and everything else is so ridiculous. It's juvenile in my opinion. Intelligent minds can differ on pretty much all of this stuff. That's just the way it is.


----------



## Migen21

PBL450 said:


> A friendly note to RBR members: If you don't want to hear differing opinions don't post yours on the internet.


A friendly note to PBL450.

If you do not want to hear differing opinions don't post yours on the Internet.


----------



## Rashadabd

PBL450 said:


> All true. But you don't need to be an elite rider to want to pedal a 16lb bike up a hill instead of a 25lb bike. Tires get heavy. 25 or 28 maybe not a huge difference but you are getting there... And position matters. A lot. Again, if you have no performance goals who cares, but your position on the bike is going to have an effect. You don't need to be an elite rider to want or to notice gains made by aerodynamics and your position on the bike is the most significant percentage of aerodynamic drag. Much of this segment comes with wider tires and a more upright position. Maybe not all of the segment, but then, those that don't have adventure traits, what makes them a different segment than a road bike?
> 
> A friendly note to RBR members: If you don't want to hear differing opinions don't post yours on the internet.


Oh and the cool thing about the new extra wide Enve 4.5 AR wheels is that they were designed with aerodynamics in mind. That's actually the whole point behind the wheels. They are also probably lighter than the wheels most of us currently have and can be run tubeless. I also want to point out that you can get into a relatively aero position that will be more than adequate for folks like us out on the road on an endurance race bike if you want to. It's kind of a fiction to suggest you can't. My guess is that it will be more effective for many of us as well because we probably could hold it longer. In fact, many of us are actually riding endurance bikes and not admitting it to ourselves, but those spacers below our stems are pretty much the same thing. Check out the Merckx 525 video linked above. That's one reason they now make an endurance geometry version of their aero bike. Here's more on the wheels: 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q7tX_waYh_Y


----------



## Jay Strongbow

DrSmile said:


> 2) This would be great for dirt trails that are found in the SouthWest and Rockies. Not so much on the East Coast, where a significant chunk of the high end bike market is. The market is therefore more limited.


I can only speak for New England and into Quebec not the rest of the East Coast but you're completely wrong. Just about every 'roadie' I know also has a gravel/trail bike and there is ample places to ride them.


----------



## BikeLayne

Since they do not post weights on the bikes I would have to say I just do not know about that. I could guess the weight of the bikes would be comparable to other brands in the price range. My friend has a Roubaix that is one year old. I do not know how much it weighs but it is very light. He does not have disc brakes. 

As far as aerodynamics go I would not change my cockpit measurements just because I had a different bike. Where I am is what fits me. On the aerodynamics I do not know what would be more aerodynamic is a sidewind (what I actually ride in). I guess I feel that a bike that has oval shaped tubes for headwind is going to work against a side wind a bit. Disc brakes in a side wind is probably slightly negative. Body position in side wind is also unknown to me. I tried changing my position and using my Garmin to see if there is a difference in speed but the test just does not work. When I move my body around then I always initially speed up and then slow down as far as I can tell. So I just ride like everyone else on the hoods, drops and the flats primarily concerned with comfort and bike handling in turns or over rough terrain. 

Anyone know of a link for aerodynamics in a side wind. The stuff I always see around is with a yaw of 15 degrees. We don't have that wind here. I went on a tour of the Specialized facility and I asked questions about their wind tunnel but the guy did not seem to really know much more then there it is and we use it all the time.


----------



## Rashadabd

BikeLayne said:


> Since they do not post weights on the bikes I would have to say I just do not know about that. I could guess the weight of the bikes would be comparable to other brands in the price range. My friend has a Roubaix that is one year old. I do not know how much it weighs but it is very light. He does not have disc brakes.
> 
> As far as aerodynamics go I would not change my cockpit measurements just because I had a different bike. Where I am is what fits me. On the aerodynamics I do not know what would be more aerodynamic is a sidewind (what I actually ride in). I guess I feel that a bike that has oval shaped tubes for headwind is going to work against a side wind a bit. Disc brakes in a side wind is probably slightly negative. Body position in side wind is also unknown to me. I tried changing my position and using my Garmin to see if there is a difference in speed but the test just does not work. When I move my body around then I always initially speed up and then slow down as far as I can tell. So I just ride like everyone else on the hoods, drops and the flats primarily concerned with comfort and bike handling in turns or over rough terrain.
> 
> Anyone know of a link for aerodynamics in a side wind. The stuff I always see around is with a yaw of 15 degrees. We don't have that wind here. I went on a tour of the Specialized facility and I asked questions about their wind tunnel but the guy did not seem to really know much more then there it is and we use it all the time.


A number of reviews out there and posts in here in various places include actual and/or marketed weights for many of these bikes.


----------



## Migen21

Rashadabd said:


> Oh and the cool thing about the new extra wide Enve 4.5 AR wheels is that they were designed with aerodynamics in mind. That's actually the whole point behind the wheels. They are also probably lighter than the wheels most of us currently have and can be run tubeless. I also want to point out that you can get into a relatively aero position that will be more than adequate for folks like us out on the road on an endurance race bike if you want to. It's kind of a fiction to suggest you can't. My guess is that it will be more effective for many of us as well because we probably could hold it longer. In fact, many of us are actually riding endurance bikes and not admitting it to ourselves, but those spacers below our stems are pretty much the same thing. Check out the Merckx 525 video linked above. That's one reason they now make an endurance geometry version of their aero bike. Here's more on the wheels:
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q7tX_waYh_Y


More good info on these wheels here at GCN


----------



## BikeLayne

Rashadabd said:


> A number of reviews out there and posts in here in various places include actual and/or marketed weights for many of these bikes.



I was just looking at the current Road Bike magazine and they have the new Roubaix with the pogo stick handlebars, Dura Ace and disc brakes for review. It is 17.1 lbs as tested. My budget would not allow a Dura Ace bike so mine would be a bit heavier if I was shopping. However bikes in that style are just as light as other bikes out there. I would take a serious look at the Roubaix because they use a Shimano Crank with Praxis these days. I can relate to that and I have tools in the garage to service that set up. Only a test ride would tell the tale of the Pogo stick handlebars. Maybe it's awesome and maybe I would be bouncing up and down in a distressing manner. No idea actually.


edit: I just popped over to the Specialized website and the Roubaix SL4 sport with 105 is $2K. 105mechanical, no discs and it has the zerts rubber bumpers from before. That would be the production bike I would purchase. However I am not shopping but that is my window shopping budget bike. No weight listed but I bet the lack of disc brakes partly offsets the drop in components from Dura Ace to 105. I bet it's 18lbs max ready for a test ride. If so that is pretty darn good for 2K.


----------



## Migen21

Interesting. I just read on Enve's site that folding beaded clinchers are not recomended. They recommend a 28mm tubeless tire (with or without butyl tube) and max pressure of 80psi.

I've only ever run Conti GP 4 Season or GP4000 IIS, so I guess I'm looking around for a 28mm tubeless compatible road tire. 

https://enve.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/213882023-SES-4-5-AR-Tire-Clearance-Notice


----------



## Rashadabd

Migen21 said:


> Interesting. I just read on Enve's site that folding beaded clinchers are not recomended. They recommend a 28mm tubeless tire (with or without butyl tube) and max pressure of 80psi.
> 
> I've only ever run Conti GP 4 Season or GP4000 IIS, so I guess I'm looking around for a 28mm tubeless compatible road tire.
> 
> https://enve.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/213882023-SES-4-5-AR-Tire-Clearance-Notice


I think Schwalbe has some, there are others out there as well.


----------



## Rashadabd

The BMC Roadmachine 01 is reportedly roughly 7.3kg, the Paralane with mechanical Ultegra and Fulcrim Quattro DB wheels is reportedly 8.05kg. Getting under 17lbs shouldn't be an issue with the Paralane. The Fact 10 Carbon Roubaix is about 19lbs stock in the lower levels and 17.1lbs with a nicer spec as you pointed out. Specialized claim you can get the SWorks under 16lbs or something like that.

Here's more on the Roadmachine and its weight:

Test: BMC Roadmachine 01 ?*The One-Bike-Collection | GRAN FONDO Cycling Magazine


----------



## PBL450

Rashadabd said:


> Don't be silly man. None of these bikes comes anywhere near 25lbs. In fact, you are pretty much typically talking a difference of 18lbs or so vs. 16lbs or so and that's really my point. Most people aren't going to feel that difference. Like many have said on here, if that 2lbs bothers you that much, empty a water bottle, pack a lighter saddle bag, and/or just lay off of the doughnuts for a week, buy a different bike, etc. I have ridden multiple times with people that have a bike that is slightly heavier than mine and it really is non-issue for the most part even on challenging climbs. Unless you are a racer and/or maxing out on the performance end already, you are still talking about marginal gains, which it seems a bit silly to stress and argue over if you are in it for fun and fitness. Moreover, you can get many/most of these bikes down to the 16lb-17lb range if that matters to you as well. That's the point we are making. There's not much of a downside (really) and there are some real benefits. Room for wider tires is what makes the biggest difference, that and new compliance features.
> 
> Finally, I don't mind differences of opinion, I actually like discussing the pros and cons of different bikes. What gets old and annoying is people who come on here and act like the option they are in love with is the only logical option and everything else is so ridiculous. It's juvenile in my opinion. Intelligent minds can differ on pretty much all of this stuff. That's just the way it is.


Oh, I thought I read 25 in this thread, sorry. 18 is impressive with those wider tires IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rashadabd

Here's the most affordable version of the higher end/lightest BMC Roadmachine 01:

https://nytromultisportblog.com/2016/06/21/all-new-bmc-road-machine-01/


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## BikeLayne

PBL450 said:


> Oh, I thought I read 25 in this thread, sorry. 18 is impressive with those wider tires IMO.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Back in the beginning of the thread I pointed out the Jamis Renegade steel bike entry into this thread. It was 24.4 lbs without pedals and such. Maybe that is where the heavy weight thing came into play. I think they bulked it up with heavy duty wheels but I just don't know.

Anyway the day is moving on and I think I will go ride the bike I own instead of talking about bikes I will never own.


----------



## n2deep

As I get older the goals for the ride have changed. Enjoying the ride, the friends and the scenery are just as important as keeping up with the group. I believe the real market is in the endurance arena. A lot of us are older, have a little disposable income and are not as competitive as we once were. We still like the latest technology, still like banging out the miles, and want a bike that can support small adjustments to facilitate our plans. Most of us do not want a mountain bike or a true gravel bike, just a design that lets us ride a little more relaxed/upright for sightseeing/credit card touring, wider tires for comfort or terrain (32 MM Max) and the opportunity to adjust everything back to a semi-competitive position for the occasional century. The Roubaix suspension, an old but great design, fits with my current style of riding and will be at the top of my list for my next purchase/demo ride.. 

BTW,, No-one wants a 25 lb. bike to push uphill, that’s just ridiculous, I think 20 max, 16 to 18 is more realistic.


----------



## JSR

Your comments exactly reflect my point of view. Well said.


----------



## Rashadabd

It took me a wile to get here, but this 43 year old couldn't agree more. To be clear, there's nothing wrong with being a weight weenie, crit racing, speed junkie either though. It's just not where I am at anymore and I am finally embracing that fact.


----------



## Rashadabd

My guess is that this is where a big segment the road bike genre is headed (Aero, disc brakes, clearance for at least 30mm wheels and tires, electronic shifting (probably wireless) and still relatively lightweight. and high on tech) :

Argon 18's concept bike knows exactly how aero you are | Cyclingnews.com

I think the rest will be similar to the bikes we are discussing in this thread.


----------



## BikeLayne

Even at 68y/o performance is important to me. Obviously I am not going to win a Master bike race or anything but when I am riding I want a bike that will perform well given the terrain I am on. That would be pot holes, chip seal, gravel, hard pack. The bike I have does a good job but I am sure the Paralane would do it better. I enjoy a PR on Strava as much as the next guy. I am just to old to be KOM of anything. 

The Specialized Diverge is another all around bike. It comes with 32mm tires which seem like a bit much but I guess I would prefer it over the Roubaix with the wiggling seat post and spring action stem. I figure with 32mm tires even the roughest of roads would feel fine. I think fenders can be used on the Diverge which for me would be great.


----------



## n2deep

BikeLayne said:


> Even at 68y/o performance is important to me. I enjoy a PR on Strava as much as the next guy.


I'm close but not quite there yet,, Impressive !!!!


----------



## Rashadabd

BikeLayne said:


> Even at 68y/o performance is important to me. Obviously I am not going to win a Master bike race or anything but when I am riding I want a bike that will perform well given the terrain I am on. That would be pot holes, chip seal, gravel, hard pack. The bike I have does a good job but I am sure the Paralane would do it better. I enjoy a PR on Strava as much as the next guy. I am just to old to be KOM of anything.
> 
> The Specialized Diverge is another all around bike. It comes with 32mm tires which seem like a bit much but I guess I would prefer it over the Roubaix with the wiggling seat post and spring action stem. I figure with 32mm tires even the roughest of roads would feel fine. I think fenders can be used on the Diverge which for me would be great.


Fuji has a new Gran Fondo and SL Disc that have similar features but are more affordable.


----------



## BikeLayne

n2deep said:


> I'm close but not quite there yet,, Impressive !!!!


 If your lucky enough to have good health in those senior years you can actually roll pretty good. I have a number of top 10 overall segment times on Strava. Even one 2nd place but no KOM's. 

I just had my bi-annual physical and my Doctor told me to go for it. He say's what I am doing is working well. I tried golf but when I hit the ball in a ditch it makes me rage inside so I figured it was a poor choice for me. One time I snapped my driver in half and dropped it in a Trash can after I duck hooked a ball out onto Highway 25 over a 60 ft fence. . I could have saved myself $150.00 on a new discount driver at Sports Authority if I would have just quit then.


----------



## BikeLayne

Rashadabd said:


> Fuji has a new Gran Fondo and SL Disc that have similar features but are more affordable.


My issue of road bike magazine has the Gran Fondo in an article. Fuji/Dura Ace for $4000.00. They made it sound more like a cruise machine then a performance oriented adventure bike.


----------



## Rashadabd

It seems like it might be a little more relaxed, but pretty similar to the rest of these bikes at the end of the day:

Fuji unveils new Gran Fondo with disc brakes and 12mm thru-axles | road.cc






There are also a number of more of more affordable models in the range.

Fuji Bikes | Gran Fondo


----------



## BikeLayne

I just went back and watched the Paralane video. I really like the video, scenery and the bike. The bike is normal looking without the round swooping top tube that many bikes seem to have. The Ultegra version is $3500.00 which is a good chunk but many people spend that on a bike I suppose. I spent more then that on my current bike but all the guys/girls I ride with have bikes that were less expensive. My main riding friend spent $3000 on his 2015 Roubaix. Ultegra Di2 with calipers so it's in the same range. As far as disc brakes go they are coming for sure but so far I do not know anyone that is riding disc brakes.


----------



## Rashadabd

Here's another one:

On Test: Ridley Fenix SL Disc - Peloton Magazine


----------



## FitWell Bicycle Co

Here's one that definitely skews more dirt, but can run a full road group, so it has enough gear for a spirited group ride.















check it out at Schratz Family — FitWell Bicycle Company
super affordable, and functional.


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## Lombard

PBL450 said:


> All true. But you don't need to be an elite rider to want to pedal a 16lb bike up a hill instead of a 25lb bike. Tires get heavy. 25 or 28 maybe not a huge difference but you are getting there... And position matters. A lot. Again, if you have no performance goals who cares, but your position on the bike is going to have an effect. You don't need to be an elite rider to want or to notice gains made by aerodynamics and your position on the bike is the most significant percentage of aerodynamic drag. Much of this segment comes with wider tires and a more upright position. Maybe not all of the segment, but then, those that don't have adventure traits, what makes them a different segment than a road bike?
> 
> A friendly note to RBR members: If you don't want to hear differing opinions don't post yours on the internet.



Your points and opinions taken. However, what if one plans to do a 50-60 mile ride that include long segments of both pavement and gravel? You would not want a purely road bike for that because it would beat the hell out of you on the gravel segments. And you would not want a purely mountain bike for that because that would be a super long haul on a mountain bike.

Enter something in between - gravel/adventure bike or "quiver killer". More upright than a cx bike and lighter than a hybrid or touring bike.

I also beg to differ on weight. Unless you are talking about a super light race bike with top line components, most carbon road bikes in the $2-3K price range are around 18-19lbs., not 16lbs. The same carbon gravel grinders weigh in at around 21lbs. Not a tremendous difference. I really doubt you would even notice.


----------



## PBL450

Lombard said:


> Your points and opinions taken. However, what if one plans to do a 50-60 mile ride that include long segments of both pavement and gravel? You would not want a purely road bike for that because it would beat the hell out of you on the gravel segments. And you would not want a purely mountain bike for that because that would be a super long haul on a mountain bike.
> 
> Enter something in between - gravel/adventure bike or "quiver killer". More upright than a cx bike and lighter than a hybrid or touring bike.
> 
> I also beg to differ on weight. Unless you are talking about a super light race bike with top line components, most carbon road bikes in the $2-3K price range are around 18-19lbs., not 16lbs. The same carbon gravel grinders weigh in at around 21lbs. Not a tremendous difference. I really doubt you would even notice.


Agreed on most fronts. I corrected my mis-perception on weight previously, I was thinking like 25lbs originally. And, just FYI, I could get my Foil to 16lbs under 3K. Well under 3K. I'll bet you could get a CAAD 10 to 16or less for less than my Foil. These bikes are much closer to road bikes than I originally thought.


----------



## grvlgrndr

PBL450 said:


> Agreed on most fronts. I corrected my mis-perception on weight previously, I was thinking like 25lbs originally. And, just FYI, I could get my Foil to 16lbs under 3K. Well under 3K. I'll bet you could get a CAAD 10 to 16or less for less than my Foil. These bikes are much closer to road bikes than I originally thought.


My Slate 105 with KS dropper post, XT clipless pedals, Surly Knard 650B x 41 tires with tubes, Lezyne Flow cages, Garmin edge 500 and mount, and steerer mounted multi tool only weighs 24 lbs. Compared to my mountain bike that is 5lbs lighter and much quicker on road and gravel sections. I do plan on trying some singletrack too but so far this has been a great bike. I guess it all comes from what you are used to. I have been mountain biking exclusively for the last ten years so this bike is a revelation in terms of weight and ability. But if you come from the road side, maybe 24 lbs is a pig. At 200 lbs I am sure I could ride more and lose 10 lbs easier from me than the thousands it would cost to lose it from my bike, oh and my bike costs less stock than $2,900.00.


----------



## PBL450

grvlgrndr said:


> My Slate 105 with KS dropper post, XT clipless pedals, Surly Knard 650B x 41 tires with tubes, Lezyne Flow cages, Garmin edge 500 and mount, and steerer mounted multi tool only weighs 24 lbs. Compared to my mountain bike that is 5lbs lighter and much quicker on road and gravel sections. I do plan on trying some singletrack too but so far this has been a great bike. I guess it all comes from what you are used to. I have been mountain biking exclusively for the last ten years so this bike is a revelation in terms of weight and ability. *But if you come from the road side, maybe 24 lbs is a pig.* At 200 lbs I am sure I could ride more and lose 10 lbs easier from me than the thousands it would cost to lose it from my bike, oh and my bike costs less stock than $2,900.00.


Yes. My MTB is 35lbs. So I get that. But for a road bike, 24 lbs is heavy. For the price you paid you could get close to a 10lb. difference. That's appreciable. When I switch between road and mtb the road bike feels like a feather, especially on longer climbs.


----------



## grvlgrndr

PBL450 said:


> Yes. My MTB is 35lbs. So I get that. But for a road bike, 24 lbs is heavy. For the price you paid you could get close to a 10lb. difference. That's appreciable. When I switch between road and mtb the road bike feels like a feather, especially on longer climbs.


 yeah but mine stock would have been easily 21 lbs or lighter and for what I spent on my upgrades I could have gotten it lighter. I went the opposite route for more versatility but it could have been lighter. I think I made the right choices for myself but there are ways to get a supremely versatile bike within a weight limit. Mine just has low gearing, dropper post, mountain pedals, two bottle cages, multi tool, knobby tires, tubes, and a gps for a reasonable weight. My mountain bike varies between 29-30.5 depending on wheel choices and this can do most if not more better. Don't get me wrong. I love my mountain bike(2016 Santa Cruz Hightower CC XO1) but it can't do everything well, especially set up as 27+. Weight is due to extremely heavy 27+ WTB tires. So the Slate feels like a feather compared to the Hightower. Like I said, it's all what you are used to. But the Slate Stock is not that heavy of a bike. The Force X1 can be built to 18lbs and that is with a 30mm suspension fork.


----------



## BikeLayne

The Durian rider said the Specialized Diverge is the best bike in the Specialized line up. I took a look at it and it fits this thread very well.

I like it because it does not have the pogo stick handlebars and the wiggling seat post. It does have the zerts rubber bumpers but I think they worked at least according to a friend of mine that has them on his Roubaix.

It comes with 30mm tires which puts it into a good gravel bike, it has a 48/32 and an 11/32 rear so it would certainly have some low gears for those off the pavement areas with steep pitches that you encounter. 

Anyway I think it fits into the category very well. Carbon and 105 for $2800.00 seems to high to me but maybe others think that is a good price. I don't know. 

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/men/bikes/road/adventure/diverge-comp/119013


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## TmB123

Depends on which Diverge you get as they are optioned differently through the range. Some come with Zertz front and rear, some front only, some hydro brakes, some SCS frames and TA's, some come with 50/34 & 11-28, some much lower gearing. The carbon frames you can fit tyres up to about 38mm front and rear, the alu ones maybe 33mm rear and 35mm front. The higher model bikes come with the cg-r post.
i have the Carbon Pro model and do like it. I also have an S-Works Roubaix, similar bikes, but also different, and different enough for me to want to keep the Roubaix.


----------



## BikeLayne

I see bikes on the internet but I do not actually go into bike shops. There are none around so most bikes I never actually see. My friends that I cycle with seem to ride the same bike year after year as I do. 

The Diverge does sound like it has a lot of diversity in one product line.


----------



## TricrossRich

BikeLayne said:


> The Durian rider said the Specialized Diverge is the best bike in the Specialized line up. I took a look at it and it fits this thread very well.
> 
> I like it because it does not have the pogo stick handlebars and the wiggling seat post. It does have the zerts rubber bumpers but I think they worked at least according to a friend of mine that has them on his Roubaix.
> 
> It comes with 30mm tires which puts it into a good gravel bike, it has a 48/32 and an 11/32 rear so it would certainly have some low gears for those off the pavement areas with steep pitches that you encounter.
> 
> Anyway I think it fits into the category very well. Carbon and 105 for $2800.00 seems to high to me but maybe others think that is a good price. I don't know.
> 
> https://www.specialized.com/us/en/men/bikes/road/adventure/diverge-comp/119013


I'd argue that the Diverge was one of the first in this category.


----------



## JSR

Gran Fondo magazine has a comparison of seven endurance bikes:

What?s the best road bike to conquer the Alps? 7 bikes on test | GRAN FONDO Cycling Magazine


----------



## BikeLayne

JSR said:


> Gran Fondo magazine has a comparison of seven endurance bikes:
> 
> What?s the best road bike to conquer the Alps? 7 bikes on test | GRAN FONDO Cycling Magazine



Nice bikes for sure. I still like the Paralane the best from the pictures. The real world is I am going to ride my current bike for the rest of my life. So for me it's just window shopping. I really liked the color on the BMC roadmachine from the beginning of the thread.


----------



## JSR

BikeLayne said:


> I really liked the color on the BMC roadmachine from the beginning of the thread.


At this point any hint of a flash of impending color hints catches my eye. I am so tired of charcoal satin on black matte I could spit.


----------



## Lombard

JSR said:


> At this point any hint of a flash of impending color hints catches my eye. I am so tired of charcoal satin on black matte I could spit.


I actually like the matte black frames. They are sure a welcome relief from the predominance of white frames before this.


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## kapusta

Glad to see some higher end bikes like this being offered. Long overdue, IMO. If I had the money to spend on a high end road bike, these are the sorts of bikes I would be looking at, though I would like to go even wider on the max tire clearance.

Six years ago I traded my Race-oriented bike for a Salsa Casseroll. It can take up to 37mm tires, but has geo and handling more like a typical road bike than a CX bike or touring bike. Not as quick handling as a race bike, but still a lot of fun. In 2010 there were not very many options like this.

My Cass is not in the same league as the bikes the OP is talking about (heavy, and flexy under power), but it was a real eye-opener for me regarding the benefits of being able to run wider tires on a road bike. At this point anything under 32mm is dead to me, I just do not experience any benefit. I find the Compass Bon Jon Pass (35mm) is perfect for both paved and unpaved roads. 

So it is great to see more fast, true road bikes being offered that can take advantage of wider tires. I know CX bikes offer this, but the few I have tried on the pavement just did not handle/feel the way I wanted a road bike to feel. Same with typical touring bikes

I am now looking for a disc-compatible replacement for my Casseroll frame. All the the bikes shown are a bit over my budget, but there are some great cheaper options out there. I think I will be building a Soma Fog Cutter over the winter.


----------



## BikeLayne

I think after looking at the various bikes and the rides that I go on I would choose the Specialized Diverge. I am not sure about carbon or aluminum actually but it would depend on the bike weight, components and cost. Also color as I am not ever buying a black bike. 

The bike has big tires on it already and the crank is a 48/32 which would help with one of the gravel rides that I currently do. 

I have no actual plans of buying another bike at this time. I would just go find a Diverge and test it out and give it a good consideration if I were looking.


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## JSR

I had a Domane SLR 6 demo bike for two days this week. I got to put about 60 miles on it. Herewith my report:

SLR = all the new "squishy" bits
6 = Ultegra
16 lbs with Speedplay pedals installed in 54cm frame

The demo bike had 28c tires and did not have discs. I think it would have been a tight squeeze to install fenders in this configuration. The disc bikes come with 32c tires.

The ride was ethereal. I hammered it through a section of once-paved trail that is now fully pot-holed and broken. It handled it with complete aplomb. I could not make it do anything hinky.

Climbing was good. I managed two 2nd place PRs on short climbs without trying hard, which I consider good for December. It felt plenty stiff enough when giving it the gas or standing, even with the cushy-on-the-tushy ride.

I didn't do any serious descending, so can't comment on handling in that regard. Otherwise handling was a non-event, which is probably a good thing. I did notice quite a bit of rebound when crossing bumps (like a root under a paved trail). The LBS mechanic theorized it's just the bigger tires, but it seemed to me the whole frame flexed and sprang up. It was a bit unnerving only because I'd never felt anything like that on a road bike. If I can get a ride on a Roubaix it will be interesting to compare this effect.

The geometry had 30mm more stack at the bars and 20mm less reach than my 55cm Lemond. There was room on the steerer to either raise or lower the stem. The result was a LOT less back pain, a major reason I'm in the market for an endurance bike. The sensation when riding is that the cockpit is much more in your line of sight. If you ride in the drops a lot you might not like this configuration.

I was really happy with the bike. It does exactly as advertised - more compliant ride while still plenty fast. 


BikeLayne said:


> Also color as I am not ever buying a black bike.


I hear you, brother. Unfortunately, the Domane SL 6 Disc I want comes only in a glossy Pearl Black, with White accents. At least it's not that fake ninja pencil on coal stuff that is so popular these days.


----------



## JSR

Yesterday I did a parking lot ride on a Giant Defy Advanced. This is the Ultegra mixed setup with aluminum 28-spoke rims and 160mm rotors. It weighed 19 lbs.

This bike is much more similar to a race bike than the Domane - not quite the same stack, no special compliance tricks (except the d-shape seat post). It was still a fairly comfy ride while showing some oomph when I jumped on it. 

It comes with 25C tires and can fit 28C but perhaps not with fenders.

The model in this lineup that would interest me is the Defy Advanced Pro 1 - full Ultegra, carbon rims, tubeless tires, full carbon fork/steerer. Rotors only 140mm. Weight ~17 lbs. Priced at $3,250 it's a full $1,250 less than the Domane SL 6 Disc.

I think this bike would appeal to a rider who wants more versatility than a full race bike, but doesn't need a super relaxed setup. It scores very well on bang/buck.

It comes in colors.


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## JSR

I finally got a spin on the Roubaix Elite Ultegra Di2.

The headshock is fine, if unspectacular. It provides a buffer against front wheel impacts and doesn't materially affect handling. I'd expect it's benefit to be mostly felt in the lack of fatigue at ride's end that many people mention. As far as mitigating back pain, I'd say that the seat post/seat tube engineering is way more important.

The whole setup under the saddle is very good. They have done about everything possible to provide comfort. The combo seat stay attachment/seat post clamp is very clever. It's a good realization of the promise of carbon fiber to be engineered for specific results.

it comes with 26mm tires and can go to 32 or more, but a configuration with fenders may top out at 28mm.

A short steep climb and a couple of stop sign accelerations showed plenty of giddyup. 

Di2 was a lot cooler than I had expected, although the junction box hanging below the stem is a downer, IMHO.

The Tarmac Black/Charcoal has a glossy finish. "Charcoal" in this case is actually medium grey. To my eye the overall effect was a very distinguished presentation.

This bike, with a 54cm frame, weighed 19.6 lbs, which I found unimpressive.


----------



## Clyde250

I've been on a Defy Advanced Pro 2 for a while now. It came with alloy wheels but I built up a set of 45/55mm carbon clinchers. It's 19.1 pounds in a Large, with pedals/cages Brooks Cambium C15 and 25c Gatorskins. I did put 160mm rotor on the front and it's much better than the 140mm. Solid bike all around, nothing fancy and gtg all day long.


----------



## Rashadabd

I like a lot of these bikes, but I have come to realize that I am more interested in the gravel racing and trail riding aspect of adventure/all road cycling and have moved in the direction of bikes with wider tire clearance. My favorites/finalists as of now are the following:

1.) The 3T Exploro:

Exploro by 3T Cycling - I know some of it is hype, but I love the combination of all the versatility this bike offers when combined with aero tube shaping. It's just a fun idea. It's really pricey though. 

First Ride: 3T Exploro LTD Gravel Bike Review - Free Speed or Aero Marketing?

2.) The Litespeed T5 Gravel:

T5 Gravel Flat Mount Disc | All Road | Titanium | Litespeed Bicycles | Litespeed Bicycles This provides all of the benefits of Titanium, but at a fairly decent weight and it is beautiful in person. It's a bit pricey as well though. (limited lifetime warranty offered)

Road Bike Action | BIKE TEST: Litespeed T5G Titanium All-Road Bike (the bike has been updated since this review. See below)

Litespeed Bicycles Revamps T5 Gravel Bike - Cyclocross Magazine - Cyclocross News, Races, Bikes, Photos, Videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46l6ItO6mCs

3.) The Salsa Warbird Carbon:

WARBIRD CARBON FORCE BROOKS LE | Bikes | Salsa Cycles - it has less hype and bling than the first two options, but it has tire clearance for days and is a proven do-it-all machine. It's also significantly more affordable. 

Reviewed: Salsa Warbird Carbon Rival | VeloNews.com

4.) The Fuji Jari:

Fuji Bikes | Change Country - it's the only aluminum option on my short list (I am not anti aluminum though. I think it can be a great option for the right rider). It offers a lot of the same features these other bikes do, but in one of the the most affordable packages I have come across (bordering on ridiculous actually). There's a little less room for wider tires, but you can definitely fit 40mm+. (limited lifetime warranty offered)

5.) The new (2018 model year?) Orbea Terra:

Orbea's Lightweight Terra Carbon Disc ’Cross / Gravel Bike - Interbike 2016 - It's similar to the warbird, but probably a bit more race oriented. It's priced similarly as well. Lots to like about this one, including the ability to add a custom paint job. I have confirmed that it will be released later this year. (limited lifetime warranty offered)

6.) Other options include the Giant TCX SX, which is basically a cyclocross bike with wider tires:

https://www.bikerumor.com/2016/06/20/giant-releases-new-gravel-bike-for-2017/ (limited lifetime warranty offered)

7.) and the Niner RLT, which you can get in Carbon, Steel, or Aluminum at a variety of price points and which is designed to accommodate both road and 29er MTB wheels. This one is really growing on me as well:

RLT 9 RDO

https://www.bikerumor.com/2015/10/2...ikes-gain-thru-axles-carbon-fork-rack-mounts/






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc1mfCIUsZs


----------



## Migen21

That's fine. I own a dedicated gravel bike myself (Norco Search). However it's not really a quiver killer if it's not going to replace your dedicated road bike.


----------



## Rashadabd

Migen21 said:


> That's fine. I own a dedicated gravel bike myself (Norco Search). However it's not really a quiver killer if it's not going to replace your dedicated road bike.


I can't speak for anyone else, but that is likely where I am headed. I plan to have one bike for most riding. I might add a more versatile or race oriented mtb eventually, but my plan is to have one all road type bike for road, gravel, light to moderate trails, and cx.


----------



## JSR

It seems like we have more choices than ever!

FWIW, I pulled the trigger on a Trek Domane. It should be more than adequate for road as well as the sometimes rough MUTs and occasional gravel I come across. For off-road rides I have a full suspension MTB that weighs about 25lbs.

I think I'm good to go for a while.


----------



## Rashadabd

There are so many now. These are just the ones I like. It does sound like you have a good combo going. I have considered that option as well (road bike + mtb), but I kind of just want to try something different.


----------



## Rashadabd

Having considered pretty much every option/combo, I guess my final thoughts on the matter are that when considering a new bike these days, you really need to consider what kind of riding you primarily do because there are so many options out there now. 

I think the kind of bikes we were initially discussing in this thread could be ideal for the pure roadie that wants slightly wider tires (28mm-32mm) for versatility (the ability to hit some fire roads, rough/cobbled roads, etc), increased comfort, a larger contact patch, or just for the fun of it.

Other riders that ride mostly trails and throw in a gravel ride/race from time to time might prefer a hardtail or full suspension mtb or something like the Cannondale Slate. 

I think the bikes I discussed above are a different bike and what I consider to be true gravel/adventure bikes. They seem to be better fits for a rider that is primarily a gravel racer and/or into a bit of everything. This is the kind of rider that may ride road one or two days a week, then hit some singletrack or some trails later that week, rides or races on gravel and/or dirt roads often, and might possibly even take on an occasional cyclocross race, but prefers to be able to do that all on one bike. A high quality cx bike could fit here too, but some of the gravel bikes listed above provide a more relaxed geometry, room for even wider tires, and/or add other features some gravel riders prefer. This is the category I now find myself in. A couple of years ago, riding trails and gravel roads wasn't even on my radar. I was purely focused on road. Now dirt, gravel, and trail riding is my preferred terrain. I am also interested racing cx for fun once in a while, however. It's nice to have bike options that are designed with all of those possibilities in mind.


----------



## JSR

That's an interesting lineup. One thing that jumped off the page at me was that many of them are offered with 1x rings, but with facilities to add a front derailleur. 1x would limit its versatility (obviously).

Also, imho, you would might want to seriously consider having two wheel sets. 40c knobbies might feel pretty clunky on the road. A decent set of alu road wheels might be had for ~ $750 or less.


----------



## tommybike

I guess quiver killer is all about what you want to do with. I do find the new Roubaix the only bike I want to ride. Well, a fat bike in the snow but I don't want to touch my old Tarmac or even my TT bike. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


----------



## Rashadabd

JSR said:


> That's an interesting lineup. One thing that jumped off the page at me was that many of them are offered with 1x rings, but with facilities to add a front derailleur. 1x would limit its versatility (obviously).
> 
> Also, imho, you would might want to seriously consider having two wheel sets. 40c knobbies might feel pretty clunky on the road. A decent set of alu road wheels might be had for ~ $750 or less.


I absolutely agree.


----------



## Rashadabd

tommybike said:


> I guess quiver killer is all about what you want to do with. I do find the new Roubaix the only bike I want to ride. Well, a fat bike in the snow but I don't want to touch my old Tarmac or even my TT bike.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


Pretty much. You are not the first person I have heard of that feels that way either.


----------



## Henry Chinaski

I'd rather change bikes than change wheels, especially up here in the Northwest where we have such varied weather and terrain. Quick handling road/race bike for fast sunny paved rides, fendered cross bike with 32s for rainy days, gravel bike with disc brakes and 40 knobs for dirt/gravel rides, FS mtb for technical singletrack, etc. One bike seems like one big compromise and kinda boring, jack of all trades, master of none... That said I do have one "do anything" bike and it's custom steel road frame with long reach caliper brakes and the super awesome Compass Stampede Pass 700 x 32s.


----------



## E6Flash

A lot of nice looking options here. The Exploro 3T in particular looks like it could be used for a local crit race and a 100 mile gravel race with a switch of wheels/tires. I've been looking at the Mason Bokeh to be a bike that I take on gravel rides and dirt roads. The price is cheaper (aluminum) and the versatility is there.


----------



## Rashadabd

E6Flash said:


> A lot of nice looking options here. The Exploro 3T in particular looks like it could be used for a local crit race and a 100 mile gravel race with a switch of wheels/tires. I've been looking at the Mason Bokeh to be a bike that I take on gravel rides and dirt roads. The price is cheaper (aluminum) and the versatility is there.


I don't know if the sell it in the U.S., but man the Bokeh is pretty impressive and good looking (at least on paper). It's definitely a worthy addition to the list. Thank you for sharing and commenting. 

8.) The Mason Cycles Bokeh:

https://masoncycles.cc/shop/categories/bokeh-bikes

Review: Mason Bokeh Force | road.cc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6hAUJ6cu78&sns=em


----------



## E6Flash

Rashadabd said:


> I don't know if the sell it in the U.S., but man the Bokeh is pretty impressive and good looking (at least on paper). It's definitely a worthy addition to the list. Thank you for sharing and commenting.
> 
> 8.) The Mason Cycles Bokeh:
> 
> https://masoncycles.cc/shop/categories/bokeh-bikes
> 
> Review: Mason Bokeh Force | road.cc
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6hAUJ6cu78&sns=em


I did not see that review. Thanks for sharing that. In truth, after getting some solid advice from this forum in a thread I started last year, I'd really like a titanium gravel bike. The cost of many Ti bikes is somewhat prohibitive. I've seen a couple of Lynskey frames on eBay that were priced good. I've looked at the lite speed T5 a bit. Ribble also has a Ti bike in my price range. If money was no object, I really like what see from the Moots Routt 45 or a Vamoots.


----------



## Rashadabd

E6Flash said:


> I did not see that review. Thanks for sharing that. In truth, after getting some solid advice from this forum in a thread I started last year, I'd really like a titanium gravel bike. The cost of many Ti bikes is somewhat prohibitive. I've seen a couple of Lynskey frames on eBay that were priced good. I've looked at the lite speed T5 a bit. Ribble also has a Ti bike in my price range. If money was no object, I really like what see from the Moots Routt 45 or a Vamoots.


No problem. I agree that Titanium is the ideal material for gravel racing, but the pricing is tough. If you already have components and a fork you like, you can get the T5 Gravel frameset for $2300, which isn't horrible. The people I have talked to at a shop here really like it. The reviews that are out there seem to reach the same conclusion. But, if you are starting from scratch, the build could end up being a pricey one. The RLT 9 Steel is also a solid option if are willing to put in the effort to keep it from rusting over time. It's priced fairly and should take the punishment just fine. I also think aluminum is fine for a budget gravel bike. The Fuji Jari is priced great IMO. It has good tire clearance and it is also compatible with 650b wheels. My swing for the fences bike would be something like the T5G, but I am completely comfortable wth ending up with a Fuji Jari build or something like that. I am currently having an internal debate about how much sense it makes to invest in a lightweight carbon gravel race bike....


----------



## E6Flash

Rashadabd said:


> No problem. I agree that Titanium is the ideal material for gravel racing, but the pricing is tough. If you already have components and a fork you like, you can get the T5 Gravel frameset for $2300, which isn't horrible. The people I have talked to at a shop here really like it. The reviews that are out there seem to reach the same conclusion. But, if you are starting from scratch, the build could end up being a pricey one. The RLT 9 Steel is also a solid option if are willing to put in the effort to keep it from rusting over time. It's priced fairly and should take the punishment just fine. I also think aluminum is fine for a budget gravel bike. The Fuji Jari is priced great IMO. It has good tire clearance and it is also compatible with 650b wheels. My swing for the fences bike would be something like the T5G, but I am completely comfortable wth ending up with a Fuji Jari build or something like that. I am currently having an internal debate about how much sense it makes to invest in a lightweight gravel race bike....


There's plenty of events in the Midwest you can visit to put a gravel bike to the test! Most don't have the notoriety of dirty kanaza. But they are fun all the same. There's one 100 mile gravel run in Ohio that awards a case of Yuengling to the winner!


----------



## Rashadabd

E6Flash said:


> There's plenty of events in the Midwest you can visit to put a gravel bike to the test! Most don't have the notoriety of dirty kanaza. But they are fun all the same. There's one 100 mile gravel run in Ohio that awards a case of Yuengling to the winner!


Cool, I am kind of compiling a list of events. I currently live in Georgia and there are some great events here and in Florida too. I think some of the crew from gravelcyclist.com live around here.


----------



## tommybike

E6Flash said:


> There's plenty of events in the Midwest you can visit to put a gravel bike to the test! Most don't have the notoriety of dirty kanaza. But they are fun all the same. There's one 100 mile gravel run in Ohio that awards a case of Yuengling to the winner!


Yuengling should be for PA. Lu Lacka Wyco Hondo is supposed to be excellent. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## E6Flash

tommybike said:


> Yuengling should be for PA. Lu Lacka Wyco Hondo is supposed to be excellent.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


Nice! The LLWH looks like a beast! This is the one I was referring to. Yuengling is a sponsor I guess.

http://funkbottomsgravel.blogspot.com/?m=1


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## tommybike

That looks fun too. Hmm. Maybe add a 3rd gravel ride for the year. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## E6Flash

tommybike said:


> That looks fun too. Hmm. Maybe add a 3rd gravel ride for the year.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


I haven't run it, but know people who have. Been thinking about riding it this year on my old GT mountain bike. I don't think my Focus Izalco Max would fare well unless I can get 28's and different gearing on it?? If I can get my hands on a gravel bike soon I'll definitely ride funkbottoms and I'd love to ride LLWH but it looks like registration for hat is already full! So I'm left with the choice of trying to buy a bike now under $1000, or waiting another year or so to up my price range to around $2000. I do have some old parts lying around but nothing I really want to use on a new build. Been thinking about going with a used bike as well. But I'm weary about what I'll find on Craigslist and eBay.


----------



## Migen21

For those in the Pacific Northwest, Vicious Cycles promotes a series of gravel rides every year. 

Events – Vicious Cycle

They are not super well supported, and they limit entries, so they can be hard to get into. Sign up early!


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## E6Flash

A search on this forum turned up a few more options close to my current price point. Anyone have or heard of experience ordering from Planet X or one of the other U.K. Retailers?

http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBPXLDNRIV1/planet-x-london-road-sram-rival-1-hydraulic-disc-road-bike


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## E6Flash

This is what I'd be looking at if I waited to save up more bike cash
http://www.planetx.co.uk/c/q/bikes/cyclocross-bikes/on-one-pickenflick

http://road.cc/content/review/116607-one-pickenflick-cyclo-cross-bike


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## Rashadabd

E6Flash said:


> This is what I'd be looking at if I waited to save up more bike cash
> Award Winning Titanium Cross Bikes | Planet X
> 
> Review: On-One Pickenflick cyclo-cross bike | road.cc


Good find, these look like very solid prices for what you are getting. The titanium bike is a great deal, if it's quality. The On One Bish, Bash Bosh and the Space Chicken look like they could be incredible deals if you are looking for Carbon. $600 for a carbon frameset, saaay whaaat??? I completely dig something about the Space Chicken though, it's versatile and funky. The price isn't bad either. 

Gravel Adventure Bike Frames | Planet X

Space Chicken | Planet X

Peerless Gravel Adventure Bikes | Planet X

The big gravel races out this way are now part of a series. Racers can earn points in each race and chase the overall title. I think that's pretty cool. 

Chain Buster Racing


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## Rashadabd

I know it's a different topic, but their aero road frame is a pretty ridiculous deal too. It's heavy, but at this price, even if you end up with a 17lb aero bike, it's still pretty solid if you ask me...

Planet X EC-130E Rivet Rider Carbon Aero Road Frameset | Planet X

Best Aero Bike of the Year - Cycling Weekly


----------



## E6Flash

Rashadabd said:


> I know it's a different topic, but their aero road frame is a pretty ridiculous deal too. It's heavy, but at this price, even if you end up with a 17lb aero bike, it's still pretty solid if you ask me...
> 
> Planet X EC-130E Rivet Rider Carbon Aero Road Frameset | Planet X
> 
> Best Aero Bike of the Year - Cycling Weekly


Lots of good looking bikes! I like the point system. I would like for organizers around here to do something similar.


----------



## Opus51569

*The &quot;Quiver Killers&quot;*

The Haanjo comes close for me:

http://www.diamondback.com/shop/haanjo-comp

Relatively affordable
Good tire clearance
Rack and fender mounts to run as a commuter
1X11
If only it wasn't disc so I could swap in road wheels...


----------



## Rashadabd

Opus51569 said:


> The Haanjo comes close for me:
> 
> Diamondback Bicycles - Haanjo Comp
> 
> Relatively affordable
> Good tire clearance
> Rack and fender mounts to run as a commuter
> 1X11
> If only it wasn't disc so I could swap in road wheels...


I've heard good things about the Haanjo. I haven't seen one in person though. It's tough to get that kind of tire clearance without disc brakes. You could always build up a spare set of narrower disc brake road wheels.


----------



## Opus51569

Rashadabd said:


> I've heard good things about the Haanjo. I haven't seen one in person though. It's tough to get that kind of tire clearance without disc brakes. You could always build up a spare set of narrower disc brake road wheels.


True. The problem is my "quiver" consists of 3 bikes, all 10sp rim brakes and it's been convenient being able to swap parts among them. But I guess that's part of what killing the quiver is all about.


----------



## MRBIGRING

E6Flash said:


> Nice! The LLWH looks like a beast! This is the one I was referring to. Yuengling is a sponsor I guess.
> 
> Funk Bottoms Gravel


That is correct the winners Funk Bottoms receive a case of Yuengling and this year pair of DeFeet socks. Anyone who does the 200K in under 12 hours get the coveted hobo stove.


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## Rashadabd

If you like these kinds of bikes and events (I sure do), there might be a new fork out there soon for us to play with:

https://www.bikerumor.com/2017/02/1...venture-cross-gravel-suspension-fork-spotted/

Fox nearing launch of Adventure Cross short-travel fork | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos


----------



## Rashadabd

I plan to pretty much exclusively focus on gravel and cyclocross races moving forward. Accordingly, I am leaning toward building up a Fuji Jari, Fuji Cross, or an On One Space Chicken from the frameset or going with the Giant TCX SX complete bike. I love the Litespeed T5 Gravel Direct Mount, but I don't love the price for something that is going to just take a beating. It's still in the mix, but I'm having doubts about going that way when I probably will need to build up multiple sets of wheels. The weight isn't ideal given the price either. 

I also like the Trek Boone and Specialized Crux and expect both to get major updates soon, but they are both significantly more than I would like to spend on a gravel and CX bike that will likely be crashed multiple times. In fact, I have almost completely ruled out carbon bikes at this point. It's only the favorable pricing the TCX SX and Space Chicken bring to the table that has them still hanging on. Most of the reasonably priced carbon gravel and cx bikes don't provide much in terms of weight savings, so there isn't really much of an incentive there IMO. The Space Chicken is actually heavier than a number of aluminum bikes in this category for instance. 

I like this Fox fork a bunch though, it looks like it will be lighter and cheaper than the Lauf and it opens up trail riding and rough terrain riding a bit more. It could easily end up on the build/wish list. If I had to make up my mind right now, I would probably go with the Fuji Jari frameset. It's only like $500 and could be the foundation for a great gravel and cx rig. Plus if I crash it or damage it via pebble/rock strikes, I'm not going to lose much sleep over needing to buy a new frame. It will also leave me with plenty of dinero for a customized build and extra wheels.


----------



## cobra_kai

That's an expensive fork for a $500 frame, not to mention 3 lbs? The Lauf fork is supposedly only 2 lbs which is still crazy heavy for a cx fork.

I'm not sure I get this fork though. At what point does a gravel bike become a crappy hard tail drop bar 29er? I get that you are looking for the 'one bike to rule them all' but if you're hitting terrain rough enough to need a suspension fork in addition to the 45+ mm tires some of these bikes can handle it just seems like you would be better off with multiple bikes.


----------



## Rashadabd

cobra_kai said:


> That's an expensive fork for a $500 frame, not to mention 3 lbs? The Lauf fork is supposedly only 2 lbs which is still crazy heavy for a cx fork.
> 
> I'm not sure I get this fork though. At what point does a gravel bike become a crappy hard tail drop bar 29er? I get that you are looking for the 'one bike to rule them all' but if you're hitting terrain rough enough to need a suspension fork in addition to the 45+ mm tires some of these bikes can handle it just seems like you would be better off with multiple bikes.


Both the Lauf fork and the proposed Fox fork aren't cx forks, they are all road and/or gravel forks. Nobody knows what the fork will weigh at this point, but I keep hearing it will be lighter than the Lauf. To get to your main point, I hear a lot of people say things like this and then I talk to gravel racers who do this stuff all day long and love it, often on one bike and they consistently recommend that interested parties pay the naysayers no mind. The whole gravel scene isn't for everyone and seems to be a space where you do what ya like. If you want to ride a hardtail with drop bars, ya do it, a cx bike with 40mm tires, fine, a gravel specific bike with 650b wheels and a 30mm travel fork, cool bro. I like that. It's all about whatever you feel fastest and most comfortable on. So, in essence, if these are your questions and concerns, my guess is that you probably are better off with multiple bikes and/or might not be a gravel racing kind of guy and that's ok with me. To each his own though. 

More info:

Gravel Cyclist: The Gravel Cycling Experience

Riding Gravel - The Home of Gravel Cycling

Gravel Grinder


----------



## Rashadabd

If you watch video footage of the events, you will see a bit of everything. Hardtails, gravel bikes, cyclocross bikes (some modified in various ways, some standard). All racing, all having fun.


----------



## cobra_kai

That looks like a sweet ride. I didn't mean to come across as insulting so if that's what you want go for it. I've been wanting to get a bike more like these for bikepacking/light touring purposes. I've had my eye on something the RLT9 steel or Specialized Sequoia, but more as a n+1 than n-1 haha.


----------



## Rashadabd

cobra_kai said:


> That looks like a sweet ride. I didn't mean to come across as insulting so if that's what you want go for it. I've been wanting to get a bike more like these for bikepacking/light touring purposes. I've had my eye on something the RLT9 steel or Specialized Sequoia, but more as a n+1 than n-1 haha.


No worries, I like the entire RLT lineup, the Sequoia looks interesting as well for those long day in the saddle adventure/bikepacking type rides.


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## Rashadabd

There's a new all road bike from Open Cycles: the U.P.P.E.R. It sounds like it is just a lighter Unbeaten Path with flat mount discs, 12mm TA, and a new paint job. Obviously, they want more of your money to acquire it (quite a bit more actually. This is another bike in the cool, but expensive category):

https://opencycle.com/up/

Open Cycles unveil the U.P.P.E.R., an U.P. with flat mount disc brakes and new U-Turn fork | road.cc

Open U.P.P.E.R. gravel bike first look - BikeRadar USA

https://www.outsideonline.com/2075591/six-month-review-open-unbeaten-path


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## Rashadabd

AX-Lightness also has a new lightweight option. I have my doubts about how durable these lightweight gravel and cx bikes are. My guess is it's probably not the best idea, but, to be fair, I also haven't seen a bunch of reports of carbon gravel and/or cx bikes being damaged/failing. I have seen evidence of it from MTBers, but haven't heard much on the gravel or cx front. 

AX-Lightness Vial evo Gravel first look - weight, spec, details - BikeRadar USA

If this is true for carbon forks, it has to be true for the rest of the bike, right? If so, that's an important factor to keep in mind when considering a gravel and/or cx bike IMO.

https://www.cxmagazine.com/longevity-carbon-forks-cyclocross

https://cyclingtips.com/2015/08/what-is-the-lifespan-of-a-carbon-frame/


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## Rashadabd

For the deep pocket crowd, here's a 3T Exploro Build that turned out pretty nice as well.


----------



## Chader09

Looks like the new U.P.P.E.R (man, that's dumb to type) is going to blow past the price of the Exploro. Only the deepest pocket or those lucky to get EP need apply.


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## Rashadabd

Chader09 said:


> Looks like the new U.P.P.E.R (man, that's dumb to type) is going to blow past the price of the Exploro. Only the deepest pocket or those lucky to get EP need apply.


Those were my thoughts as well. That's a lot to spend on any bike, let alone one that will likely end up with dirt and mud caked on it, that will constantly have little pebbles bouncing off of it, and could possibly hit the deck on a regular basis IMO. MTBers spend that kind of $$$ on carbon MTBs that experience harsher treatment I guess though...


----------



## wradom

One problem that hasn't been mentioned with some of these bikes is that you cannot fit the standard 53/39 crank in if you want it (I am one of those people who insists on it). I was on this exact search myself (road bike that I could race on the road and swap wheels around for a gravel ride) and came up with a relatively short list of bikes that fit the mold. In order to get the geo I want I would have to go a size down and put a long stem on a few of these as well. 
Santa Cruz Stigmata
Ibis Hakkalugi 
Salsa Warbird
Rodeo Trail Donkey 2.0 (silly cool bike, the only thing I've found that could legitimately do everything if you wanted it to)
Jamis Renegade


----------



## Rashadabd

wradom said:


> One problem that hasn't been mentioned with some of these bikes is that you cannot fit the standard 53/39 crank in if you want it (I am one of those people who insists on it). I was on this exact search myself (road bike that I could race on the road and swap wheels around for a gravel ride) and came up with a relatively short list of bikes that fit the mold. In order to get the geo I want I would have to go a size down and put a long stem on a few of these as well.
> Santa Cruz Stigmata
> Ibis Hakkalugi
> Salsa Warbird
> Rodeo Trail Donkey 2.0 (silly cool bike, the only thing I've found that could legitimately do everything if you wanted it to)
> Jamis Renegade


I really like the Trail Donkey 2.0, it seems like it is a lot like the Open U.P. and 3T Exploro, but at a slightly more affordable price and with better paint jobs. Those bikes appear to have better tire clearance, but the TD 2.0 has more than enough and has other features. The Stigmata is another good one, particularly if you are interested in both the gravel scene and cyclocross. It seems like it is a perfect bike for that combination. It looks like a number of people rode it at last year's Giro Grinduro. 

https://www.bikerumor.com/2016/06/0...-0-rodeo-labs-packs-in-cyclocross-gravel-mtb/

Trail Donkey 2.0: The First 1,000 Miles - Rodeo Adventure Labs, LLCRodeo Adventure Labs, LLC


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## Rashadabd

Here's the Stigmata:


----------



## aclinjury

right now, the fastest growing segments in cycling is the "gravel/touring" scene and the ebike scene. Soon, the quiver killer will be an ebike with capacity for big tires. It's coming.


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## Rashadabd

aclinjury said:


> right now, the fastest growing segments in cycling is the "gravel/touring" scene and the ebike scene. Soon, the quiver killer will be an ebike with capacity for big tires. It's coming.


I could see that. I am partially in it for fitness though, so ebikes have less appeal for me.


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## wradom

Has anyone tried putting 650b wheels on any of these new road specific disc brake road bikes to see what would fit? Just curious if you could find a touch more clearance on a Giant Defy in particular..


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## Rashadabd

wradom said:


> Has anyone tried putting 650b wheels on any of these new road specific disc brake road bikes to see what would fit? Just curious if you could find a touch more clearance on a Giant Defy in particular..


I seriously doubt it. I am not sure you can even get 30mm tires to fit on a Defy. 

Giant Defy Advanced Tyre Clear « Singletrack Forum

Giant Defy Advanced tyre clearance? - Page 1 - Pedal Powered - PistonHeads


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## Rashadabd

Gravel Cyclist reviewed the Lauf fork and it sounds like they gave it a big meh.... I am still interested to see what people think of the Fox fork, but you guys might be right about it not being worth the extra weight (even though the Fox fork should be significantly lighter and hopefully cheaper). 

Review: Lauf Grit Fork ? Does it take the edge off the rough stuff? | Gravel Cyclist: The Gravel Cycling Experience


----------



## tommybike

wradom said:


> Has anyone tried putting 650b wheels on any of these new road specific disc brake road bikes to see what would fit? Just curious if you could find a touch more clearance on a Giant Defy in particular..


The Roubaix is supposed to fit 32c. I have only run 28c but am considering going up a notch for a big gravel ride or two. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## AFHokie

There's quite a lot of East coast gravel.

My Giant Revolt on the C&O between White's Ferry & Georgetown:








And after the Jeremiah Bishop Alpine Loop GF (107 miles & 11k of climbing) over a mix of paved & gravel roads in Harrisonburg, VA:









Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930AZ using Tapatalk


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## Rashadabd

Very cool, I used to live in that neck of the woods for years, but was a pure roadie at the time (Northern VA). My wife is a native Virginian and UVA grad (sorry :blush2.

How do you like the Revolt?


----------



## AFHokie

Rashadabd said:


> Very cool, I used to live in that neck of the woods for years, but was a pure roadie at the time (Northern VA). My wife is a native Virginian and UVA grad (sorry :blush2.
> 
> How do you like the Revolt?


I love it. I ride probably 80% or more on pavement, but I find it soaks up vibration from tar & chip roads and handles large/loose gravel well. I live in a condo & space is at a premium; if I want to ride the C&O I just go...no swapping tires/wheels/bikes, etc. The gearing is hill friendly (taken it on the Civil War Century, Dirty Dozen in Pittsburgh, JBALGF, etc) while its not the lightest bike out there, it has never felt heavy or slow to me. It can easily fit large tires, so you can easily customize to the type of road conditions you want to ride. My only knock is it's not the tightest turning bike, but other than the occasional narrow corkscrew ramp I'm rarely navigating through tight spaces.

The only reason I can see to replace it is if I ever decided I wanted a carbon frame bike.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930AZ using Tapatalk


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## Rashadabd

Another gravel event happened in GA this past week:


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## Chader09

An interesting option. Adjustable geometry via a flip-chip in the fork.
https://www.bikerumor.com/2017/03/0...t-gravel-bikes-eu-upstart-carbon-alloy-steel/


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## Rashadabd

Chader09 said:


> An interesting option. Adjustable geometry via a flip-chip in the fork.
> https://www.bikerumor.com/2017/03/0...t-gravel-bikes-eu-upstart-carbon-alloy-steel/


Very interesting. I like the concept. I also like that they have a few different price point and material options like the Niner RLT. It's still a fairly expensive bike, but it has some versatility and novelty, etc.


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## Rashadabd

I think I am nearing a decision here and, all things considered, I will likely be going with the Niner RLT Steel (2 Star) over the Giant TCX SX and Fuji Jari. The more research I have done, the more I come away impressed by modern steel as a solid material choice for this kind of riding when you have to factor in ride quality, affordability, and durability. I also really like the geometry, tire clearance, storage options, and versatility offered by the RLT. My decision was influenced a bunch by commentary from the gravel riding community and resources like those linked below. It costs a little more than the Jari, but I like the idea of riding a steel bike in these events quite a bit more than riding aluminum or carbon. Now, I have to decide if I want to build up from a frameset (leaning that way because I like Shimano) or go with the 2 Star complete bike. 

RLT 9 STEEL 2-STAR APEX 1

Tips & Concepts for Gravel Bike Setup | Gravel Cyclist: The Gravel Cycling Experience

Six things you need to know about steel frames | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-3EqarcyVo

Niner RLT 9 Steel review | Cyclist (The bike has been updated since this review and now has thru axles front and rear)


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## Migen21

It's subjective I know, but that's the best looking bike of the options you were considering.

Let us know how it goes!


----------



## Rashadabd




----------



## Rashadabd

Migen21 said:


> It's subjective I know, but that's the best looking bike of the options you were considering.
> 
> Let us know how it goes!


I think so too. Will do.


----------



## cobra_kai

That's a solid choice, I've been lusting after the 2017 colorway with the grey and blue highlights. I would go frameset and build it up how you want. It'll cost you more but you'll have exactly the components you want and might be cheaper in the long run if you end up swapping a bunch of stuff on the pre-built version.

If you don't mind sharing, what size are you getting and what's your height and inseam? One complaint I do have with this bike is standover height seems a bit high.


----------



## Rashadabd

cobra_kai said:


> That's a solid choice, I've been lusting after the 2017 colorway with the grey and blue highlights. I would go frameset and build it up how you want. It'll cost you more but you'll have exactly the components you want and might be cheaper in the long run if you end up swapping a bunch of stuff on the pre-built version.
> 
> If you don't mind sharing, what size are you getting and what's your height and inseam? One complaint I do have with this bike is standover height seems a bit high.


That's where my head is at currently and it's typically what I do, but I am kind of exhausted with the process (hunting for bargains on components online, etc). I used to love it, but I kind of just have this itch to buy and ride this time around (and upgrade later). We'll see. I like the grey and blue combo as well. It looks like it is on back order though, so I'll have to wait and see if it is even available anymore.

I'm 5'6.5" with a 29" inseam. I typically fit a 51cm-52cm-small road bike just about right. It looks the 50cm is the size that would work best for me on the Niner. I don't typically buy without a fit session and/or test ride. I know others have different approaches, but it's just how I roll. This is my first experience with Niner, so I've never been to the local shop that sells them (which is unusual). I have no idea what they have in stock, but I will try to drop by in the next week or two to check it out and get more info.


----------



## cobra_kai

Rashadabd said:


> That's where my head is at currently and it's typically what I do, but I am kind of exhausted with the process (hunting for bargains on components online, etc). I used to love it, but I kind of just have this itch to buy and ride this time around (and upgrade later). We'll see. I like the grey and blue combo as well. It looks like it is on back order though, so I'll have to wait and see if it is even available anymore.
> 
> I'm 5'6.5" with a 29" inseam. I typically fit a 51cm-52cm-small road bike just about right. It looks the 50cm is the size that would work best for me on the Niner. I don't typically buy without a fit session and/or test ride. I know others have different approaches, but it's just how I roll. This is my first experience with Niner, so I've never been to the local shop that sells them (which is unusual). I have no idea what they have in stock, but I will try to drop by in the next week or two to check it out and get more info.


You're similar to me in that you're sort of between sizes (at least based on niner's sizing chart), although obviously a fitting and test ride will be more telling than the chart. The standover problem looks even worse in the small sizes though. The 50 has a standover height of 29.8 inches and the 53 is 30.75 inches. Granted, they don't specify which wheel/tire combo that corresponds to but still it seems high.


----------



## Rashadabd

cobra_kai said:


> You're similar to me in that you're sort of between sizes (at least based on niner's sizing chart), although obviously a fitting and test ride will be more telling than the chart. The standover problem looks even worse in the small sizes though. The 50 has a standover height of 29.8 inches and the 53 is 30.75 inches. Granted, they don't specify which wheel/tire combo that corresponds to but still it seems high.


I agree. It seems to be an issue with a lot of cx and gravel bikes.


----------



## Rashadabd

Here's the Devinci Hatchett for those interested in carbon:

https://www.cxmagazine.com/devinci-hatchet-carbon-gravel-bike-open-road-review-2017


----------



## jason124

Not sure if the Marin Gestalt and Nicasio falls into this category or if they are more on the gravel grinder spectrum, but they seem to be pretty affordable. 






I really wanted a RLT niner steel when I was shopping for bikes, but for the way I wanted it, it was not in my budget 2 years ago (that and I didn't know how serious I would get into cycling). Now days, I am kind of glad I didn't since it has a press fit bottom bracket. Much prefer a BSA to keep things simple.


----------



## Rashadabd

jason124 said:


> Not sure if the Marin Gestalt and Nicasio falls into this category or if they are more on the gravel grinder spectrum, but they seem to be pretty affordable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really wanted a RLT niner steel when I was shopping for bikes, but for the way I wanted it, it was not in my budget 2 years ago (that and I didn't know how serious I would get into cycling). Now days, I am kind of glad I didn't since it has a press fit bottom bracket. Much prefer a BSA to keep things simple.


These are definitely within the realm of things we have been discussing. Nice find, thanks for sharing.


----------



## Rashadabd

It looks like you could get that new Marin Nicasio, pair it with an Enve cx fork or a Niner RLT fork and have a solid steel gravel bike for around $1300. You would eventually need to upgrade components as well though. Not bad at all if it rides well.


----------



## jason124

When I test rode the Lombard, it was marketed as a gravel bike, these days it is an "urban" bike. But here's that video for your viewing pleasure


----------



## Lombard

jason124 said:


> When I test rode the* Lombard*, it was marketed as a gravel bike, these days it is an "urban" bike. But here's that video for your viewing pleasure



Whoa! You mean there's a bike named after me? How bad could it be?


----------



## velodog

Saw this and thought maybe it would be of interest here.

Photos: Best road and gravel bikes at NAHBS | VeloNews.com


----------



## Rashadabd

velodog said:


> Saw this and thought maybe it would be of interest here.
> Photos: Best road and gravel bikes at NAHBS | VeloNews.com


Very cool. It looks like the Fox fork everyone was writing about was designed for the Alchemy bike. I look forward to reading some ride reviews about that one. I like the look of Low's aluminum rides, but they are super pricey and I highly doubt they ride any better than bikes like a Allez Smartweld or Cannondale Caad, which are basically half the price. The rest are varying degrees of interesting as well. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Chader09

I like the M series racer inspired colorway on the Breadwinner Lolo.


----------



## Rashadabd

There's finally a review of the Fuji Jari out:

FUJI JARI 1.1: Budget Badass - Peloton Magazine


----------



## E6Flash

*The &quot;Quiver Killers&quot;*

I am now locking my sights on a titanium frame. Really like this one
https://22bicycles.com/products/drifter
Just need to pick up a few side gigs!
I've read several articles & threads relating to gravel-grinding and conventional thinking seems to be that 40mm tire clearance is enough to see you through most rides. Excluding serious, technical, single-track, what kind of surface would be difficult for a drop-bar bike with 40mm tires?


----------



## Rashadabd

E6Flash said:


> I am now locking my sights on a titanium frame. Really like this one
> https://22bicycles.com/products/drifter
> Just need to pick up a few side gigs!
> I've read several articles & threads relating to gravel-grinding and conventional thinking seems to be that 40mm tire clearance is enough to see you through most rides. Excluding serious, technical, single-track, what kind of surface would be difficult for a drop-bar bike with 40mm tires?


Nice, but yeah that price is pretty steep for a gravel bike. It will probably last a long time though. The litespeed t5g is about $1000 less and similar. I think you are basically right about tire size, but some people seem to really like 47mm 650b wheels for some courses. You can fit those on a bunch of these bikes.


----------



## E6Flash

Rashadabd said:


> Nice, but yeah that price is pretty steep for a gravel bike. It will probably last a long time though. The litespeed t5g is about $1000 less and similar. I think you are basically right about tire size, but some people seem to really like 47mm 650b wheels for some courses. You can fit those on a bunch of these bikes.


I would like a Ti bike to last a lifetime or, until I can no longer ride. One thought lately is that I may want something that can be used for cyclocross as well. I haven't to this point been interested in CX, but I find myself trying lots of new things I never thought I'd try at 40 years old. I know there are differences in geometry between gravel specific 'adventure' bikes & cross bikes. I see more riders with cross bikes using them for gravel races and grinduro type events than the other way around. Does anyone have any experience with CX bikes have any thoughts about this?


----------



## velodog

E6Flash said:


> I would like a Ti bike to last a lifetime or, until I can no longer ride. One thought lately is that I may want something that can be used for cyclocross as well. I haven't to this point been interested in CX, but I find myself trying lots of new things I never thought I'd try at 40 years old. I know there are differences in geometry between gravel specific 'adventure' bikes & cross bikes. I see more riders with cross bikes using them for gravel races and grinduro type events than the other way around. Does anyone have any experience with CX bikes have any thoughts about this?


For the price of that frame and fork you could very nearly get two steel frame sets, one CX and the other a gravel bike, and there's no reason that they wouldn't last the rest of your life. 

My wife and myself have both got bikes that are still being ridden that are over thirty years old, and I fully expect them to still be going strong when we aren't. Not trying to say that you should stay away from titanium, just saying that you don't need it if longevity is the only concern.


----------



## E6Flash

velodog said:


> For the price of that frame and fork you could very nearly get two steel frame sets, one CX and the other a gravel bike, and there's no reason that they wouldn't last the rest of your life.
> 
> My wife and myself have both got bikes that are still being ridden that are over thirty years old, and I fully expect them to still be going strong when we aren't. Not trying to say that you should stay away from titanium, just saying that you don't need it if longevity is the only concern.


Good to know. Why does it seem like steel is considered to be less desirable than titanium? At least from what I've read. Ride quality?


----------



## velodog

E6Flash said:


> Good to know. Why does it seem like steel is considered to be less desirable than titanium? At least from what I've read. Ride quality?


I'm kind of partial, being a steel is real kinda guy, but I think you owe it to yourself to try and ride a couple of steel and titanium bikes and get a feel for yourself. Specially considering how long you're considering on keeping the bike.

I think, if steel really is considered to be less desirable than titanium, it's only because steel has that "old school" vibe going. I've got old Columbus SL tubed road bikes, a modern Deddacciai oversized tubed road bike and a modern Randonneur bike and they all have their own ride qualities. Right now my favorite is the rando, and with it's 42mm tires I've had no issues on the little bit of gravel I've ridden it on.

But really, ride at least one of the new carbon gravel bikes and then search out steel and titanium bikes to test ride and make a comparison. Once you decide, than you can look see what is to be had off the shelf, or research builders to see what they have to offer.


----------



## E6Flash

velodog said:


> I'm kind of partial, being a steel is real kinda guy, but I think you owe it to yourself to try and ride a couple of steel and titanium bikes and get a feel for yourself. Specially considering how long you're considering on keeping the bike.
> 
> I think, if steel really is considered to be less desirable than titanium, it's only because steel has that "old school" vibe going. I've got old Columbus SL tubed road bikes, a modern Deddacciai oversized tubed road bike and a modern Randonneur bike and they all have their own ride qualities. Right now my favorite is the rando, and with it's 42mm tires I've had no issues on the little bit of gravel I've ridden it on.
> 
> But really, ride at least one of the new carbon gravel bikes and then search out steel and titanium bikes to test ride and make a comparison. Once you decide, than you can look see what is to be had off the shelf, or research builders to see what they have to offer.


I will try. I've got plenty of time as I don't plan on buying a new bike in the near future. Just need the weather to get above 20 degrees here in the Midwest!


----------



## cobra_kai

This looks like a pretty cool bike: https://reebcycles.com/bikes/cx-gravel/sams-pants/

It can fit a 2.1" tire and is Rohloff and belt drive compatible. It is also designed around a suspension-corrected fork so you can put on a suspension fork if you want.


----------



## Rashadabd

It's definitely interesting. I have developed an interest in a local builders' work. Zukas Cycles produces some really nice steel (and titanium I believe) rides. Definitely worth checking out. I met a shop owner that rides one when I was on a business trip in Dalton, Ga and he loves his. He said he will never go back to off the shelf bikes. I'm not sure I would ever feel that way since many off the shelf bikes fit me just fine, but I am officially intrigued.

Featured Bike: Dustin Gaddis? Zukas Cycles All-Road Gravel Bike | Gravel Cyclist: The Gravel Cycling Experience

Home Page

https://www.bikerumor.com/2012/04/0...rgeous-custom-steel-bicycles-from-augusta-ga/


----------



## velodog

Rashadabd said:


> It's definitely interesting. I have developed an interest in a local builders' work. Zukas Cycles produces some really nice steel (and titanium I believe) rides. Definitely worth checking out. I met a shop owner that rides one when I was on a business trip in Dalton, Ga and he loves his. He said he will never go back to off the shelf bikes. I'm not sure I would ever feel that way since many off the shelf bikes fit me just fine, but I am officially intrigued.
> 
> Featured Bike: Dustin Gaddis? Zukas Cycles All-Road Gravel Bike | Gravel Cyclist: The Gravel Cycling Experience


His stuff looks nice. But I don't like the minimum clearance on the tire\fork combination on the bike in the link that I left in your post. I'd prefer to see more room between the tire and the fork, especially if the bike is going to see any mud or even debris which the tires may pick up.


----------



## E6Flash

Check this one
https://8bar-bikes.com/shop/bikes/mitte-v1-3in1-adventure-comp/


----------



## velodog

E6Flash said:


> Check this one
> https://8bar-bikes.com/shop/bikes/mitte-v1-3in1-adventure-comp/


I think that I would find this bike more interesting with fixed chainstay length, leaving the headtube with the steeper angle and the two forks having having different offset, changing the trail.

But that's just me.


----------



## cobra_kai

Here are a couple more of the titanium variety:
Kinesis Tripster ATR Version 2 - Kinesis Bikes
https://www.alpkit.com/sonder/bikes/sonder-camino-ti-frame-and-fork

The price on the Camino seems almost too good to be true for ti


----------



## BCSaltchucker

E6Flash said:


> Excluding serious, technical, single-track, what kind of surface would be difficult for a drop-bar bike with 40mm tires?


heck around here, some of the cyclocrossers just ride all the serious, technical singletrack we have here. though I think they are completely bonkers to do so. They're not riding with semi-slick gravel/adventure tires though.


----------



## Superdave3T

E6Flash said:


> A lot of nice looking options here. The Exploro 3T in particular looks like it could be used for a local crit race and a 100 mile gravel race with a switch of wheels/tires. /QUOTE]
> 
> I've done exactly that; all in the same weekend. It mirrors what you'd want in a performance road frame with tire clearance almost unlike anything else available even among the gravel segment. 15.9 pounds with SRAM Force and 34mm WTB Exposure tires.


----------



## wradom

To throw a pretty awesome addition on here, the Trek now has added their 'pro' a fit option to the project one Domane disc models. Previously that geometry was only available with rim brakes...


----------



## Chader09

Any bets on new or revised bikes we will see this season?

I am hoping for an updated Specialized Diverge to be announced. I'd love to see the Future Shock and clearance for 40+ tires.

I am wondering if Trek will make a dedicated gravel bike. They have the Domane and Boone, but it seems there could be room for a hybrid of the two that has the relaxed geo of the Domane, but the tire clearance (or more) of the Boone.

The new Boone is a given considering the race bikes from the close of CX season. But I am curious to see if they think there is enough market for a dedicated gravel bike from them.


----------



## JSR

The Giant Defy is ready for a refresh.


----------



## Rashadabd

Orbea finally released the new Terra and I like it. The fact that you can basically customize your paint scheme is a pretty cool feature too. Not cheap, but pretty cool IMO. 

https://www.orbea.com/us-en/brands/terra/

https://www.bikerumor.com/2017/04/03/orbea-terra-all-road-bike-gets-a-firm-grip-on-production/


----------



## Rashadabd




----------



## Rashadabd

It looks like some of the original bikes we were discussing made Bike Radar's Bike of the year list:

Bike of the Year 2017: Specialized Roubaix wins Road Bike of the Year - BikeRadar


----------



## Rashadabd

It also sounds like the new Pinarello Dogma K8-S will have hydraulic rear suspension. Thoughts???

Automatic rear suspension system race-tested by Team Sky - BikeRadar


----------



## velodog

Rashadabd said:


> It also sounds like the new Pinarello Dogma K8-S will have hydraulic rear suspension. Thoughts???
> 
> Automatic rear suspension system race-tested by Team Sky - BikeRadar


Not for me, I'd rather just run large volume low pressure tires. 

I've been running 650b\42mm wheels and tires with 45\50 psi and if more than that was needed I think I'd rather go with 26"\50 or 54mm wheels and tires than suspension on a road bike, even for gravel roads.

In my opinion suspension just overcomplicates the simplicity of a road or gravel bike.


Yesterday I took out my Della Santa, 700c\25mm wheels and tires, and was reminded how jarring the ride of those tires is compared to the 42's.


----------



## cobra_kai

Seems heavy and failure prone, not to mention another component that needs to be charged. One of the comments on the article is how a similar mountain bike system was always broken...


----------



## Rashadabd

I agree with you all on the Dogma for the most part. It also extremely expensive. I like that companies are trying different things though. The Jamis Renegade Expat and Exploit seem like solid steel options. They are also more affordable than the RLT, but pretty heavy. Nice overall though. 

renegadeexpat

https://www.bikerumor.com/2015/11/30/first-impressions-jamis-renegade-exploit-steel-adventure-bike/


----------



## Lombard

Rashadabd said:


> I agree with you all on the Dogma for the most part. It also extremely expensive. I like that companies are trying different things though. The Jamis Renegade Expat and Exploit seem like solid steel options. They are also more affordable than the RLT, but pretty heavy. Nice overall though.
> 
> renegadeexpat
> 
> https://www.bikerumor.com/2015/11/30/first-impressions-jamis-renegade-exploit-steel-adventure-bike/


The Renegade Exploit is not heavy at all for a steel bike.


----------



## Jay Strongbow

Lombard said:


> The Renegade Exploit is not heavy at all for a steel bike.


According to their website it's 23.75 pounds. That is heavy.


----------



## crit_boy

Lombard said:


> The Renegade Exploit is not heavy at all for a steel bike.





Jay Strongbow said:


> According to their website it's 23.75 pounds. That is heavy.


It is heavy because made of steel is a poor excuse. 

Strong/Light/Cheap - pick two applies. 

A twenty four pound (pedals, bottle cages) road bike is heavy. 

My steel bike from the late 90's was 16.5 lbs. The frame was about 3 pounds. I had a riding buddy with a steel frame from the same time period. His same size frame was a bit over 7 pounds. Guess which one cost more and was made out of better steel.


----------



## n2deep

I rode the new Cannondale Slate and believe it has to be close to the top and its a blast to ride.. Quirky but Cool!!! I think this machine deserves serious consideration for a lite touring/gavel ride!!! Your opinions appreciated. .


----------



## cobra_kai

crit_boy said:


> It is heavy because made of steel is a poor excuse.
> 
> Strong/Light/Cheap - pick two applies.
> 
> A twenty four pound (pedals, bottle cages) road bike is heavy.
> 
> My steel bike from the late 90's was 16.5 lbs. The frame was about 3 pounds. I had a riding buddy with a steel frame from the same time period. His same size frame was a bit over 7 pounds. Guess which one cost more and was made out of better steel.


To be fair a lot of these bikes, including the renegade, are more light touring bikes than pure road bikes. Fender and rack mounts, long wheel base, beefier tubes to support loads, disc brake mounts, wide clearance for 40+ mm tires and other features all add weight. That being said 23 pounds still seems a couple pounds too porky so I'm guessing the wheels and other components are pretty heavy as well. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


----------



## Rashadabd

crit_boy said:


> It is heavy because made of steel is a poor excuse.
> 
> Strong/Light/Cheap - pick two applies.
> 
> A twenty four pound (pedals, bottle cages) road bike is heavy.
> 
> My steel bike from the late 90's was 16.5 lbs. The frame was about 3 pounds. I had a riding buddy with a steel frame from the samew time period. His same size frame was a bit over 7 pounds. Guess which one cost more and was made out of better steel.


^^^This. I like the feel of a 16-17lb ride when even moderate climbing is involved. Most people are in the 18-20lb range for high end gravel bikes though. It's a tradeoff and it's typically not that big of a deal because many gravel courses don't involve a ton of climbing it seems and because the bikes offer other fearures that make an extra pound or two worth carrying. Where it becomes a problem is when you want to use this bike as your road bike as well and you are trying to keep up with your buddies on their 15lb carbon bikes on a cat 2 rated climb. This is also what makes those bikes that are blurring the lines between road and gravel interesting IMO. Light(er), durable, and tons of tire clear is a nice combination if you ask me. As indicated above, those bikes don't come cheap because titanium is probably your best bet (recently saw a 14lb titanium ride). You can probably build a solid one at a decent price if you start with a Fuji Jari or RLT aluminum or steel frameset though.


----------



## Lombard

n2deep said:


> I rode the new Cannondale Slate and believe it has to be close to the top and its a blast to ride.. Quirky but Cool!!! I think this machine deserves serious consideration for a lite touring/gavel ride!!! Your opinions appreciated. .


IMHO, the Slate has the plus of the excellent Lefty shock. However, too many things about it disqualify it for me:

650B wheels - Great idea in theory for tighter turning, but replacement wheel and tire choices are limited. I don't want to be stuck with Mavic! 

Aggressive geometry makes this more like a cyclocross bike than a gravel/adventure bike. 

52/36 FSA rings - I'd rather have a full compact 50/34. And FSA, really?? Save money elsewhere, Cannondale.


----------



## Jay Strongbow

Lombard said:


> IMHO, the Slate has the plus of the excellent Lefty shock. However, too many things about it disqualify it for me:
> 
> 650B wheels - Great idea in theory for tighter turning, but replacement wheel and tire choices are limited. I don't want to be stuck with Mavic!
> 
> Aggressive geometry makes this more like a cyclocross bike than a gravel/adventure bike.
> 
> 52/36 FSA rings - I'd rather have a full compact 50/34. And FSA, really?? Save money elsewhere, Cannondale.


A front shock on a gravel/touring bike is a plus? I'm guessing that's a minority opinion.

You know wheel size impacts gear ratios right? The crank may not function as big as you imagine. Even so though it's hard to imagine a type of riding where I would want a shock AND a 52 ring. The scenario I can imagine where both would be useful together would be suicidal.


----------



## Lombard

Jay Strongbow said:


> You know wheel size impacts gear ratios right? The crank may not function as big as you imagine.


You have a point here.


----------



## Rashadabd

The Niner RLT 9 RDO is another one that ticks all of the boxes (weight, tire clearance, geometry, etc) if you are willing to pay a bit more. If money were no issue I would put it, the 3T Exploro, the original Open UP, the Trail Donkey 2.0, and the Litespeed T5G at the top of the heap. They give you pretty much everything you can possibly be looking for.

Niner Carbon RLT 9 RDO Gravel Bike: Review - Roadbike

Niner's new RLT 9 RDO for a winter gravel race - BikeRadar USA


----------



## Rashadabd

I like the Slate in theory, but every time I look at it, I feel like you could get a hardtail cross country racing mountain bike for a fraction of the price and pretty much have the same thing.


----------



## Rashadabd

Curve GMX anyone????

https://www.curvecycling.com.au/products/curve-gmx-grovel-monster-cross


----------



## Lombard

Rashadabd said:


> I like the Slate in theory, but every time I look at it, I feel like you could get a hardtail cross country racing mountain bike for a fraction of the price and pretty much have the same thing.



Pretty much.


----------



## cobra_kai

Rashadabd said:


> Curve GMX anyone????
> 
> https://www.curvecycling.com.au/products/curve-gmx-grovel-monster-cross


That's more like a rigid 29er, similar to bikes like the salsa cutthroat. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


----------



## Rashadabd

cobra_kai said:


> That's more like a rigid 29er, similar to bikes like the salsa cutthroat.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


True. Kind of cool looking though.


----------



## Rashadabd

The new Jamis Renegade Series


----------



## Lombard

Rashadabd said:


> The new Jamis Renegade Series


Not so new anymore. These were the 2015s. The 2017s have some improvements.


----------



## Chader09

That's an impressive bike line.


----------



## Rashadabd

Lombard said:


> Not so new anymore. These were the 2015s. The 2017s have some improvements.


My bad. I thought this was for the updated bikes.


----------



## n2deep

Jay Strongbow said:


> A front shock on a gravel/touring bike is a plus? I'm guessing that's a minority opinion.
> 
> Even so though it's hard to imagine a type of riding where I would want a shock AND a 52 ring. The scenario I can imagine where both would be useful together would be suicidal.


Hardly a consensus, however, I believe that a small or limited front shock absorber brings value to a true gravel, touring or adventure bike, especially after a full day in the saddle. We have paved roads that will loosen your teeth on a road bike, not cobbles but still unpleasant. The Roubaix and the Slate are both good designs as most of us do not want the full Monty..


----------



## Rashadabd

Riding super bumpy terrain that doesn't have a lot of climbing, you might actually want a MTB instead of a cx or road bike:


----------



## Migen21

As long as there isn't 200km of smooth tarmac along with the 55km of stones.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## Rashadabd

Fair enough.


----------



## Bikephelps

My Ritchey Break-Away Cross is extremely versatile. Even though it hasn't killed my quiver, if I could only have one bike it would be my Ritchey. With two sets of wheels, one for gravel & one for road, it can handle pretty much anything. The geometry is closer to a touring bike than a true cross bike making it ideal for gravel & suitable for road. It can even be broken down for travel.


----------



## Lombard

Migen21 said:


> As long as there isn't 200km of smooth tarmac along with the 55km of stones.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


Unless I'm racing, if I'm going to be riding 55km of stones, I'll take the mountain bike, thank you. The road bike would definitely beat me up on that stuff.


----------



## Rashadabd

A "pro's" (or at least sponsored rider's) gravel bike:

Featured Bike: Bob Cumming?s 3T Exploro of the Panaracer Gravel Team | Gravel Cyclist: The Gravel Cycling Experience


----------



## Rashadabd

*Gravel Bike vs. Road Bike*

They are being cheeky (as usual), but given that we have been talking about both endurance road bikes and gravel bikes, this is kind of interesting. I mostly like it because I enjoy watching these guys goof off and Ridley bikes are really growing on me. They might just be my new favorite bike brand in fact. I am starting to have visions of transforming a Ridley X-Trail into a wide tire clearance, semi-aero, double chain ring, all road race machine....


----------



## Rashadabd

The Ridley X-Trail:

https://www.ridley-bikes.com/us/en/bikes/allroad/x-trail-carbon

Ridley X-Trail Carbon SRAM Force1 HDB review - Cycling Weekly


----------



## velodog

Rashadabd said:


> They are being cheeky (as usual), but given that we have been talking about both endurance road bikes and gravel bikes, this is kind of interesting. I mostly like it because I enjoy watching these guys goof off and Ridley bikes are really growing on me. They might just be my new favorite bike brand in fact. I am starting to have visions of transforming a Ridley X-Trail into a wide tire clearance, semi-aero, double chain ring, all road race machine....


Seeing as they had two gravel bikes I would have liked to have seen them outfit one of them with high volume road tires. A 40mm road tire on one and the other with the tires that they used, both at the same pressure.
A road bike with 25mm road tires, a gravel bike with 40mm road tires and a gravel bike with 40mm treaded gravel tires or whatever they would be called.

It would be interesting to see how things played out tire wise.


----------



## Rashadabd

velodog said:


> Seeing as they had two gravel bikes I would have liked to have seen them outfit one of them with high volume road tires. A 40mm road tire on one and the other with the tires that they used, both at the same pressure.
> A road bike with 25mm road tires, a gravel bike with 40mm road tires and a gravel bike with 40mm treaded gravel tires or whatever they would be called.
> 
> It would be interesting to see how things played out tire wise.


Definitely. Drawing distinctions between the different options available on a gravel bike that just happens to have close to road race bike geometry, like the X-Trail does would have been really interesting on that terrain. I also would have enjoyed the flip side of the test with them taking all of those bikes out on an aggressive road and/or light gravel ride. Good point though.


----------



## rochrunner

To add to this discussion, I have a Felt VR5 that is squarely in this category and I just saw an ad for a new Orbea model that also fits the mold. My VR5 has actually let me sell off two older bikes that I used to switch between depending on the type of ride, with the VR5 now suitable for all my riding short of MTB trails.


----------



## Rashadabd

The Felt VR and Orbea Terra are definitely in play here. I just haven't had an opportunity to see either in the wild so to speak. I think we discussed the Terra somewhere in here, but the VR is a worthy addition, thanks. How do you like it on road and on gravel/dirt?


----------



## Rashadabd

Lots of love for the 3T Exploro today. I have to admit that I dig it too. 

The Ultimate Quiver Killer: 3T Exploro + SRAM Red eTap - Peloton Magazine


----------



## Rashadabd




----------



## Chader09

Funny that they have the rotor size essentially backwards. You usually want the larger rotor on the front since it has more braking potential due to weight transfer.

Otherwise, a dream build.


----------



## Rashadabd

Chader09 said:


> Funny that they have the rotor size essentially backwards. You usually want the larger rotor on the front since it has more braking potential due to weight transfer.
> 
> Otherwise, a dream build.


They made a mistake in the video, but address it in the article. Both rotors are 160. I agree whole heartedly.


----------



## cobra_kai

The exploro is a cool bike but I have two problems with it. First the geometry is pretty much like a race road bike so I don't think it would do as well for light touring or bikepacking and second it's overpriced in my opinion. Even the lower tier frameset is $3k. Drop that to $2k and it's much more interesting, although who wants a white bike?


----------



## Rashadabd

The race geometry is what sets it apart in my opinion. It's clearly designed for gravel racers or those that want to travel fast on loose terrain. The same people basically designed the Open UP, which is basically the same bike, but for those that aren't in as much of a hurry.


----------



## Migen21

Yea, I don't think 3T is marketing the exploro as a bikepacking bike. It's geared towards fast gravel/dirt road riding and racing, and perhaps even cross. If you were building a fast tourer for light credit card touring, it might be a good option if you are comfortable on it for long periods, but I doubt it would be much fun to ride fully loaded. It would kind of defeat the purpose of buying a fast race geometry bike.


----------



## Rashadabd

Another comparison/field test:

https://youtu.be/wspqYOopyC0


----------



## Rashadabd

The new 2018 Orbea Terra:








https://www.orbea.com/us-en/bicycles/road/terra


----------



## velodog

Rashadabd said:


> Another comparison/field test:
> 
> https://youtu.be/wspqYOopyC0


There isn't a bike in my near future, but I sure would like to try something with some 48mm or bigger road tires. 

I've been riding 42mm Compass Baby Shoe Pass tires at 45psi and when I get on a bike with 25mm tires it's plain jarring, and that's on paved roads with 90psi and less in the 25's.

And the thing about 650b is that with a larger tire the diameter is not much different that a 700c/25mm, and since everything, but the tire diameter, is smaller, the weight is less than a large tire on a 700c wheel.


----------



## Rashadabd

I like the 650b idea as well. Adding it to 700c provides adventure/gravel riders/racers with lots of options. In my opinion 35mm-47mm is the ideal gravel tire range. 30-33mm seems perfect for cross and the paved road and light gravel combination. Larger than 47mm, you might as well be on a mountain bike IMO. 25-30mm is the range for paved road racing on smoother mostly dry surfaces. People should do what suits them though. That's one of the great things about the gravel scene. Most people don't care what you are riding and tons of people try different things.


----------



## Rashadabd

Here's a nice discussion of 650b and 700c. It confirms some of the points you made in your post @velodog.

http://ridinggravel.com/components/wheel-comparison-650b-vs-700c/


----------



## velodog

Rashadabd said:


> Here's a nice discussion of 650b and 700c. It confirms some of the points you made in your post @velodog.
> 
> Wheel Comparison: 650B vs 700c -


That was a good read.

When I went to my low trail(30mm) 650b the front end felt unnervingly light, but I soon became accustomed to that. When he says "twitchy" I say fast handling. With the low trail and large tire contact patch the bike corners wonderfully and will change lines during a corner effortlessly. Also there is less wheel flop so the bike is less affected by cross wind gusts enabling me to hold my line easier when I'm hit by those big gusting cross winds. 

I've never much paid attention to the loss of momentum that he mentions, as I'm not much of a coaster, but thinking about it now it does seem true. Thinking about it, stopping pedaling to dive a corner, the bike does seem to slow a mite faster than my Della Santa or DeRosa.
But I haven't ridden either of those bikes back to back with the Boulder to say if it's a true perception or a suggested perception after reading the article.

He mentions loading the front of the bike and I will say "oh my, yes. The Boulder is set up with a front rack and decaleur and it's nothing for me to have 10/15lbs in the bag and the bike handles like there is nothing there. That's the low trail working.

And as far as comfort, I've ridden on blacktop after a grinder has taken off the top leaving a course surface for repaving and the ride is head and shoulders above anything that I've ever experienced on 700c/25mm tires. 
This is on Compass 650b\42mm tires.


----------



## 59Bassman

Dunno that it will be a "quiver killer" because I only have one mountain bike (hardtail 29er) and one road bike right now (Aluminum Salsa race bike), but I have recently started the design process on a butted Ti bike based around ENVE's GRD fork that will have clearance for 35c's and fenders. It will also use the SRAM Force groupset with hydros and the Wi-Fli 11-32 cassette. Working on wheel selection right now but they will probably end up being pretty stout and durable. 

It won't be a sub-14lb featherweight, probably closer to 20lb. But at 225 right now the bike is the last place I really need to focus on to lose weight...


----------



## Rashadabd

Sounds cool. I look forward to seeing pics, etc.


----------



## Rashadabd

Rashad's Fuji Jari Review:

Well, I got a chance to try a Fuji Jari today at my local Performance Bike. I also got to take a close look at the Ridley X-trail, but didn't get a chance to ride one in my size. 
This version I got to take out:

Fuji Jari 1.4 LE Gravel Bike - 2017

All things considered (price, purpose, planned riding conditions), I like the Jari quite a bit. I didn't take it on a long course but I got to hit some roughish terrain on the short circuit I took it on for 20-30 minutes. The course includes one short punchy climb, lots of smooth paved road, a short sprint though a bricked hospital roundabout that is sorta like pave' and a little ride over some mild gravel and rocks. 

First things first, this is definitely a dedicated gravel bike that _can_ be used just fine for endurance type road riding, but it by no means is it an aero race rocket, nor is it a ultra lightweight climbing rig. It's just not. That being said, it's a very solid performer for its intended purpose. If you lighten up the wheels and components, the geometry and quality of the frame make it a really nice bike that lands somewhere between an endurance road bike and a all arounder GC bike, but with massive amounts of clearance for large volume tires. I feel like the quality of the frame is on par with something like a Cannondale Caad10 or Specialized Allez DSW (I have owned both). It might be one small step down if anything in the weight department, but it's definitely right there. 

The larger tires and hydroformed frame with curvy stays provided a very smooth ride. Even on the bricked surface, this thing just soldiered on. I loved that aspect. It felt very solid with regard to acceleration. It definitely wasn't the same as an aero bike with a massive bb shell, but it was no slouch either. If you want to take off and go after it, you definitely can if you have the fitness. I would say it is similar to a good endurance road bike in that respect. The larger wheels made it very sure footed as well. I am definitely a believer in larger tires. It creates a different experience, which I loved. It really could be something special (for gravel races) if you can figure out a way to cut weight here or there. Not sure I like the flared out handlebars.

My final thoughts? I liked it so much I am going with it instead of the RLT Steel. I plan to order a frameset next payday to build up as light as I can with tubeless wheels. I am still weighing the pros and cons of going with 650b wheels and WTB 47mm tires vs 700c and 40mm tires, etc. I definitely want a lighter, but durable component group, including a 50/34 & 11/28 or 11/32 combo. Thinking lighter Sram 11 speed groupset right now. Here's some wheels I am considering:

Review: Hunt 30Carbon Gravel Disc Wheelset | road.cc

Clément Ushuaia tubeless wheels first ride review - BikeRadar USA

And tires:

https://www.cxmagazine.com/wtbs-expands-road-47mm-byway-gravel-tire

As for the X-Trail, it's simply beautiful. It looks like a fast road race bike with room for wider tires. I have decided that I am just not interested in spending $2700 on a carbon frameset that I will likely cover with mud and ride through loose rocks, possible crashing occasionally. The Jari also has more clearance for tires and should be more than enough for me to get started with gravel races. Some pics (of course the stem will be flipped and a couple of spacers will probably will be removed).


----------



## velodog

That looks like it'll be a fun bike.

Another tire choice.

https://www.compasscycle.com/shop/components/tires/650b/compass-650bx48-switchback-hill/


----------



## Rashadabd

Oh and I wanted share the information above, so people can see you don't need to spend a ton of money to build a really high performing gravel, cx, or road bike. The Specialized Allez Smartweld, 2018 Trek Crockett, Cannondale Caad, and Fuji Jari can be great platforms to build from and only cost a fraction of what flashier models cost. If you build them up right, even on a budget, they can perform close to almost anything out there in their given genres. Don't take my word for it, try them.


----------



## Rashadabd

velodog said:


> That looks like it'll be a fun bike.
> 
> Another tire choice.
> 
> https://www.compasscycle.com/shop/components/tires/650b/compass-650bx48-switchback-hill/


Gracias! I am looking forward to getting it built and out there and to getting away from cars and chaos.


----------



## velodog

Rashadabd said:


> Oh and I wanted share the information above, so people can see you don't need to spend a ton of money to build a really high performing gravel, cx, of road bike. The Specialized Allez Smartweld, 2018 Trek Crockett, Cannondale Caad, and Fuji Jari can be great platforms to build from and only cost a fraction of what flashier models cost. If you build them up right, even on a budget, they can perform close too almost anything out there in their given genres. Don't take my word for it, try them.


It don't get much truer than this.

I think that oftentimes we get so caught up in chasing the newest, lightest, most aero, shiniest bestest bike out there that we lose sight of cycling, and that's too bad.


----------



## Rashadabd

I agree 100%. Time to get back to focusing on the riding, the fitness, and the experience. The focus on that aspect is one of the best parts about the gravel scene in my opinion.


----------



## Migen21

Norco Search is a really nice bike for reasonable money. Well suited to the any/all road adventure. It's available in aluminum or carbon and from Tiagra up to Ultegra. The Carbon frame supports Di2 if you want to go high-end electronic.

I've had mine for a couple of years now, and I have to say, I've enjoyed every ride on it. I have mine set up with 36c Clement tubeless tires on HED Belgium Plus wheels, and mostly only use it on gravel, but the few times I've ridden on tarmac, it feels great. Slightly more relaxed than a cross bike, very comfortable, and very durable. Norco really knows what they are doing with their frame designs. The Search inherits some of the reinforcements and other durability features from their mountain bikes. My LBS is a Norco dealer, and they tell me the Search has been their most popular model for the last few years.

Here's a picture of mine from last summer overlooking the Snoquamlie Valley from the Tokul Trestle after it was re-opened last summer.


----------



## tabl10s

Rashadabd said:


>


I like this vid.


----------



## Rashadabd

I remember the Search from when this genre of bikes took off a couple of years ago. Unfortunately for me, the nearest Nor I dealer is over an hour a way. Nice looking bike though.


----------



## Lombard

Rashadabd said:


> Oh and I wanted share the information above, so people can see you don't need to spend a ton of money to build a really high performing gravel, cx, of road bike. The*Specialized Allez Smartweld, *2018 Trek Crockett*, Cannondale Caad, *and Fuji Jarican be great platforms to build from and only cost a fraction of what flashier models cost. If you build them up right, even on a budget, they can perform close to almost anything out there in their given genres. Don't take my word for it, try them.



I don't think you can fit wider tires in either of these.


----------



## Rashadabd

Lombard said:


> I don't think you can fit wider tires in either of these.


I have been told the new Crockett will fit up to 40mm. The Fuji Jari was designed for both 700c wheels up to 45mm tires or 650b wheels up to 2.0 I believe. 

https://www.bikerumor.com/2016/05/05/soc16-fuji-jari-packs-adventure-features-new-gravel-road-bike/

Fuji?s Jari packs smart features into an affordable package - BikeRadar USA


----------



## Rashadabd

It's on here as well:

Fuji Bikes | Jari 1.7


----------



## Rashadabd

As for the Allez Smartweld and Caad, they are pure road bikes. I was just referencing them as examples of quality road bikes that you don't have to break the bank to buy and which can be built to perform almost as well as anything.


----------



## dcorn

This week I took my Tarmac in for service, so I converted my Crux to road mode. Swapped on Powertap P1S road pedals and the seat from my road bike, and I'm currently running 700x36 Clement MSO tires setup tubeless. Single 42T chainring swapped in place of the 40T I had for gravel/CX riding to get a bit more top speed and kept the 11-36 cassette so I can still make it up hills. 

The bike still feels very fast, even with the slightly knobby tires. Plus I can run fairly low pressures for a much more comfortable ride on bumpy/broken asphalt trails and roads. One of these days I'll get out to my LBS sunday ride and see if I can still keep up with everyone on their true road bikes. 

I'll probably buy another set of wheels and swap in some 32mm or so width smoother tires so I don't wear out the Clements. And to lose and little rolling resistance. 

But at this point, I may just sell the Tarmac and ride the Crux full time.


----------



## Rashadabd

dcorn said:


> This week I took my Tarmac in for service, so I converted my Crux to road mode. Swapped on Powertap P1S road pedals and the seat from my road bike, and I'm currently running 700x36 Clement MSO tires setup tubeless. Single 42T chainring swapped in place of the 40T I had for gravel/CX riding to get a bit more top speed and kept the 11-36 cassette so I can still make it up hills.
> 
> The bike still feels very fast, even with the slightly knobby tires. Plus I can run fairly low pressures for a much more comfortable ride on bumpy/broken asphalt trails and roads. One of these days I'll get out to my LBS sunday ride and see if I can still keep up with everyone on their true road bikes.
> 
> I'll probably buy another set of wheels and swap in some 32mm or so width smoother tires so I don't wear out the Clements. And to lose and little rolling resistance.
> 
> But at this point, I may just sell the Tarmac and ride the Crux full time.


I have heard of others doing the same. A number of gravel races have been won by someone on a Crux as I understand it. Great bike. 

Another tire consideration for those that are interested. It only goes up to 40mm though:

Review: Schwalbe G-One | road.cc


----------



## Rashadabd

The Pivot Vault is racking up good reviews for those interested in a carbon frame. It falls in the same subcategory as the Orbea Terra and Ridley X-Trail. They are race oriented gravel bikes that can be used for both CX and gravel races. It's pricey as well.


----------



## Rashadabd

It looks like Easton is all in on gravel:

Easton AX gravel group launched | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos


----------



## Rashadabd

Gravel Cyclist race report for Paris to Ancaster, one of Canada's biggest gravel races. It includes a few general tips, etc.:

Race Report: 2017 Paris to Ancaster ? Paris, County of Brant, Ontario, Canada | Gravel Cyclist: The Gravel Cycling Experience


----------



## mtrac

velodog said:


> There isn't a bike in my near future, but I sure would like to try something with some 48mm or bigger road tires.


That's about what I have. Notwithstanding the size, minimum inflation pressure is 45 psi. My guess is you'll find they're aimed at touring and commuting, with long life, puncture resistance, and low rolling resistance as priorities and weight and compliant ride not.


----------



## velodog

mtrac said:


> That's about what I have. Notwithstanding the size, minimum inflation pressure is 45 psi. My guess is you'll find they're aimed at touring and commuting, with long life, puncture resistance, and low rolling resistance as priorities and weight and compliant ride not.


Compass tires are making road tires that are supple and light.

https://www.compasscycle.com/shop/components/tires/650b/compass-650bx48-switchback-hill/


----------



## Migen21

Well, I finally got my BMC RM-01 out on 60 mile gravel ride today with it's gravel specific wheels.

The gravel wheels are HED Belgium Plus on White Industries CLD hubs, 28f/32r, built by November Dave - the tires are Schwalbe G-One Speed 30mm tubeless. It was a dry day, but I ran it through it's paces on fast dirt, deep soft gravel, and loose sandy hardpack, and it handled all of that with no trouble at all. The only thing left is wet/mud, and since I'm pretty much a fair weather cyclist any more, I'm not too concerned about that.

Lot's of climbing and descending, cornering and braking. The wheels, tires, and brakes all performed flawlessly.



















The dedicated road wheels are Enve 3.5 SES Disc on DT 240 CLDs with 25mm Conti 4000IIs (4 Seasons for Winter). 

Pretty safe to say that my 'quiver' has been killed. This bike does everything I want it to. I have a dedicated set of road wheels and a dedicated set of gravel/adventure wheels, and I don't see any reason to keep my dedicated gravel bike around any more. I'll probably keep one other bike, just to have as a spare, but I think everything else is going up for sale.


----------



## Rashadabd

Another new Litespeed gravel bike:

Litespeed?s Newest Gravel Bike Does It All | Bicycling


----------



## Rashadabd

The new Litespeed Gravel has some cool features, but it is still pricey at $2400 for the frameset. 

Here's some footage of the Ridley X-Trail in its natural habitat (yes, all of them):


----------



## Rashadabd

Migen21 said:


> Well, I finally got my BMC RM-01 out on 60 mile gravel ride today with it's gravel specific wheels.
> 
> The gravel wheels are HED Belgium Plus on White Industries CLD hubs, 28f/32r, built by November Dave - the tires are Schwalbe G-One Speed 30mm tubeless. It was a dry day, but I ran it through it's paces on fast dirt, deep soft gravel, and loose sandy hardpack, and it handled all of that with no trouble at all. The only thing left is wet/mud, and since I'm pretty much a fair weather cyclist any more, I'm not too concerned about that.
> 
> Lot's of climbing and descending, cornering and braking. The wheels, tires, and brakes all performed flawlessly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The dedicated road wheels are Enve 3.5 SES Disc on DT 240 CLDs with 25mm Conti 4000IIs (4 Seasons for Winter).
> 
> Pretty safe to say that my 'quiver' has been killed. This bike does everything I want it to. I have a dedicated set of road wheels and a dedicated set of gravel/adventure wheels, and I don't see any reason to keep my dedicated gravel bike around any more. I'll probably keep one other bike, just to have as a spare, but I think everything else is going up for sale.


I missed this somehow. Very cool. It looks good man. I saw in another thread that you got the seatpost issue sorted out as well, so congrats. It's definitely nice to hear a another "success" story. Do you have any concerns about taking your carbon frame on loose gravel and/or roads with pebbles flying around though? I have heard of some people addressing that by getting a protective film placed on the bottom of the bike, etc., but I am always curious about how different carbon bike owners approach riding on gravel with the material. It looks like a great do it all bike no matter how you slice it. Please share more of your ride experiences with the rest of us when you have some time.


----------



## dcorn

Went for my first ride with new slick tires last night. Smooth as silk on the bumpy roads around my house. They are 32mm wide Hutchinson sector tubeless on the stock 21mm inner width wheels. Running 70psi at my 210lb weight. 

Rashadabd, when I got my crux (carbon) I bought a big strip of 3M clear protective film and custom cut pieces for a bunch of different spots on the frame that might get hit by rocks or scratched by me during cross season. Works great so far, you can't see it at all, and it sticks really well. 

View attachment 319020


----------



## Rashadabd

dcorn said:


> Went for my first ride with new slick tires last night. Smooth as silk on the bumpy roads around my house. They are 32mm wide Hutchinson sector tubeless on the stock 21mm inner width wheels. Running 70psi at my 210lb weight.
> 
> Rashadabd, when I got my crux (carbon) I bought a big strip of 3M clear protective film and custom cut pieces for a bunch of different spots on the frame that might get hit by rocks or scratched by me during cross season. Works great so far, you can't see it at all, and it sticks really well.
> 
> View attachment 319020


I hadn't heard of this until recently. It's pretty cool if it works. A local shop were the ones that told me about it, but I was kind of wondering if it was just a sales pitch to get me to buy a Terra. Good to hear it's legit. Can't see the pics btw. You may need to delete the first attempt and then repost.


----------



## Rashadabd

Good to hear you are getting to test the Crux out on different terrain as well.


----------



## cobra_kai

That litespeed looks sweet, too bad it's so expensive. Cut that frame price in half and I would be very interested. Wishful thinking, I know, for a made in USA Ti frame but I can dream


----------



## Migen21

Rashadabd said:


> Do you have any concerns about taking your carbon frame on loose gravel and/or roads with pebbles flying around though?


There is a harder layer of paint on the bottom of the downtube that is supposed to make it more resistant to chips and such. It's hard to see in the picture, but the finish on the down tube is a shiny gloss black, whereas the rest of the bike is a very flat matte black color. It's also visible on the leading edge of the fork. I'll definitely keep keep an eye on it though. 

As someone else suggested, you can buy down tube protectors (clear adhesive strips) if you are concerned about small chips and such. I think the mountain bike guys use something called Helicopter Tape, and there are companies that sell 'kits' as well (although they are likely over priced).


----------



## Rashadabd

Migen21 said:


> There is a harder layer of paint on the bottom of the downtube that is supposed to make it more resistant to chips and such. It's hard to see in the picture, but the finish on the down tube is a shiny gloss black, whereas the rest of the bike is a very flat matte black color. It's also visible on the leading edge of the fork. I'll definitely keep keep an eye on it though.
> 
> As someone else suggested, you can buy down tube protectors (clear adhesive strips) if you are concerned about small chips and such. I think the mountain bike guys use something called Helicopter Tape, and there are companies that sell 'kits' as well (although they are likely over priced).


Good to know, thanks!


----------



## Rashadabd

Gravel stage race in Texas:


----------



## Rashadabd

Another epic ride with a bit of everything. All on standard road bikes. 

Boulder Ride | Col collection | The Col Collective - Cycling Inspiration and Education


----------



## cobra_kai

More affordable version of the Kinesis ATR in aluminum. My only gripe would be the lack of cage mounts on the fork.
https://www.bikerumor.com/2017/05/3...in-alloy-tripster-adventure-gravel-road-bike/

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


----------



## Jakkel

My Slate Apex1 (rigid fork) with 700C wheels and 25 mm tires... . I like the gearing (1x11 - 44t/11-25), perfect for training rides....


----------



## Rashadabd

Jakkel said:


> My Slate Apex1 (rigid fork) with 700C wheels and 25 mm tires... . I like the gearing (1x11 - 44t/11-25), perfect for training rides....


Very nice!


----------



## Rashadabd

Peloton Magazine piece about gravel grinding in Italy aboard the Wilier Jaroon:

Tackling Italy's White Roads On the Wilier Jaroon - Peloton Magazine


----------



## Rashadabd

New Cannondale Super X Gravel Bike for 2018:

SuperX Force 1 SE Cannondale Bicycles


----------



## Chader09

This might be my next bike...






New 2018 Diverge teaser vid, and some guesses about the bike based on it:

+ S-Works model now offered (prior top end was a Pro).
+ Future Shock front end (like the Roubaix).
+ Command Post XCP, short travel seatpost dropper (sees a return since it was on the high end of the first year release).
+ There looks to be a special lever on the left side of the bars for the dropper post control (they had a poorly located one on the original release of the Diverge, before they took it off the feature list).
- The dropper option means no major seatpost flex like the Roubaix for comfort. But the seat stays are low and thin... so who knows how the rear will feel?
+ Flat mount disc brakes.
+ Thru axles (not new, but we can assume that the SCS rear is gone).
+ 1x system on the S-Works at least (I expect a FD for some builds).
+ SWAT mount by the BB like the Roubaix.
+ Nice big tires (not sure what size, but they look larger than the 35c max of the current Diverge.)
+ Possible mounts on fork for packs.

Looks like they ticked off nearly all of my wish list for the new model and we get the full reveal on June 15.

What did I miss?


----------



## JSR

The flexy seat post/tube thing on the Roubaix is a highlight of that design, IMO, and would be missed in this bike.

"Ah, eff it. I just wanna do donuts." Gotta love him.


----------



## Chader09

JSR said:


> The flexy seat post/tube thing on the Roubaix is a highlight of that design, IMO, and would be missed in this bike.


I tend to agree. 

I expect there will be builds that use the regular CGR post instead of the dropper. That CGR head and regular carbon flex of a 27.2mm post, supported down at the lower seat tube clamp position (from the sloped TT) may be enough "cushion" in conjunction with the larger tires.

But I love the Isospeed rear on my Boone, and wonder how the Diverge will compare to it without the Roubaix flex? There are plenty of GG bikes without these devices (gimmicks to some), so it may not be a deal killer.

I suspect I would end up with an Expert or Pro build and likely lose the dropper. I don't think I want it more than I want the extra shock absorption since you can't likely get both.


----------



## Chader09

Some more info and pics from 2018 Diverges in the wild.

Diverge 2018 - Bike Forums


----------



## Rashadabd

Chader09 said:


> Some more info and pics from 2018 Diverges in the wild.
> 
> Diverge 2018 - Bike Forums


Good find. It looks very similar to bikes like the Ridley X-Trail and Orbea Terra, but with the added benefit and weight of the Future Shock system. Looking forward to seeing more and reading ride reviews.


----------



## Chader09

2018 Specialized Diverge, release and reviews:

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/06/2018-specialized-diverge-gravel-bike-review/

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/06/2018-specialized-diverge-crux-allez-weights-prices-specs/

https://youtu.be/FCGp2Ib7dOs

https://www.bikerumor.com/2017/06/15/new-specialized-diverge-drops-future-shock-swat-ton-options/

First Ride: Specialized adds suspension to Diverge gravel bike | VeloNews.com

New Specialized Diverge, Crux, and Allez launched | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos

Specialized Diverge 2018: Future Shock, wider tyres and revised geometry | road.cc

Specialized updates the Diverge, CruX and Allez - BikeRadar

First Look: The New Specialized Diverge | Bicycling


----------



## Rashadabd

Chader09 said:


> 2018 Specialized Diverge, release and reviews:
> 
> https://cyclingtips.com/2017/06/2018-specialized-diverge-gravel-bike-review/
> 
> https://cyclingtips.com/2017/06/2018-specialized-diverge-crux-allez-weights-prices-specs/
> 
> https://www.bikerumor.com/2017/06/15/new-specialized-diverge-drops-future-shock-swat-ton-options/
> 
> New Specialized Diverge, Crux, and Allez launched | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos
> 
> Specialized Diverge 2018: Future Shock, wider tyres and revised geometry | road.cc
> 
> Specialized updates the Diverge, CruX and Allez - BikeRadar
> 
> First Look: The New Specialized Diverge | Bicycling


This is REALLY interesting. It sounds like the new Diverge could be a lot of fun to ride on gravel roads and light trails. I am excited about seeing where the pricing ends up on the lower level carbon bikes and the aluminum ones that have future shock. The new tire clearance is perfect IMO. The addition of future shock may add a bit of weight, but it could make rougher courses and trails a blast to ride. I really liked that feature on the new Roubaix, but felt it made it really heavy for a race oriented road bike. I am a lot less concerned about weight when it comes to gravel bikes, so it seems like a perfect fit here. I have mixed feelings about the super low bb and probably won't be able to sort that out until I test ride one. I definitely like what I see though. It joins the Ridley X-Trail as the carbon gravel bikes that interest me most. I wonder whether Trek and Giant will improve what they have in this growing category as well.


----------



## Rashadabd

Well, this certainly helps with selling the fun factor:


----------



## Devastazione

Rashadabd said:


> Well, this certainly helps with selling the fun factor:



Yes. And then you realize you are one average and little overweight weekend warrior who has paid 7K Euro for an Sworks gravel bike and there's no way you're gonna risk to crack that frame doing that stuff. I owned the "old" carbon one and let's face it,light trail my @ss,these are fully rigid bikes that just beat the heck out of your bones if you only think about doing some trail riding. I mean,I could get my butt beaten with my F29,let alone a road bike no matter how chunky of a tires you place in there.
But still yes,I feel like I want one now


----------



## Rashadabd

Lol. FWIW, my guess is that most people will end up with the E5 alloy or Comp level versions of this bike. The Comp is reportedly made with a more durable Fact 9 carbon layup (more of it is used, etc), so I say have your fun folks and send it to Calfree or some other carbon repair shop if you ever need to. Bikes are made to be ridden....


----------



## Rashadabd

I hear you on riding a rigid road or MTB on true MTB singletrack, but people are finding many trails to take these bikes on that aren't that much different than the gravel roads people race these bikes on. They seem to be basic beginner, no skill required, dirt paths, roads, and trails, but are reportedly tons of fun on a gravel or cx bike.

For instance:


----------



## Rashadabd

Another gallery and ride review:

Specialized S-Works Diverge 2018: Launch, first ride review and gallery | Cyclist


----------



## wradom

I guess I don't really see the draw of the Diverge when the Cannondale Slate is a thing.. It will be just as fast, comfortable, more versatile, has a more robust front suspension and it's less expensive...


----------



## Lombard

wradom said:


> I guess I don't really see the draw of the Diverge when the Cannondale Slate is a thing.. It will be just as fast, comfortable, more versatile, has a more robust front suspension and it's less expensive...


There are more and more worthy players entering this field. IMHO, the most appealing offerings in the segment now are the Jamis Renegade and the GT Grade.


----------



## wradom

I guess more my point was in regards to the diverge vs slate (road bikes with suspension), if you want travel the slate just the only option in my opinion. If you don't want suspension on the front but a bit more tire clearance on your road bike there is starting to be a truly great list of options out there.... Foundry Overland (my dream bike) and the Santa Cruz Stigmata are at the top of my list.. Almost every bike brand has an option out there now and will keep this thread alive for a long time.


----------



## Migen21

People open to the idea of a steel all-road should be considering the plethora of options available from Gunnar.

Custom Bicycle Frames from Gunnar Cycles USA

They have several platform ranging from heavy tourer to CX race, to adventure/gravel, and they can all accommodate lots of bags, bottles, and attachments as needed. 

The prices are very reasonable, and for a modest upcharge, you can get custom geometry and custom colors.


----------



## Rashadabd

wradom said:


> I guess more my point was in regards to the diverge vs slate (road bikes with suspension), if you want travel the slate just the only option in my opinion. If you don't want suspension on the front but a bit more tire clearance on your road bike there is starting to be a truly great list of options out there.... Foundry Overland (my dream bike) and the Santa Cruz Stigmata are at the top of my list.. Almost every bike brand has an option out there now and will keep this thread alive for a long time.


There's a lot of validity to your point, but I think it boils down to the reality that some people don't like the Lefty fork or the look of the Slate. They just don't. There also aren't any Slate carbon models, which a number of people prefer. I see the Slate as more MTB light and the Diverge as a gravel oriented road bike for slightly rougher terrain. Both can be great as gravel grinders IMO. It just comes down to personal preference. I also think the Slate is significantly heavier than the carbon versions of the Diverge (to the tune of 3-5 lbs or something). I like both, but dig the Diverge a bit more.


----------



## Rashadabd

That being said, the Slate is definitely a gravel racing worthy ride though. It now has two DK200 victories.

https://www.cxmagazine.com/interview-alison-tetrick-queen-dirty-kanza-200-2017


----------



## Lombard

Migen21 said:


> People open to the idea of a steel all-road should be considering the plethora of options available from Gunnar.
> 
> Custom Bicycle Frames from Gunnar Cycles USA
> 
> They have several platform ranging from heavy tourer to CX race, to adventure/gravel, and they can all accommodate lots of bags, bottles, and attachments as needed.
> 
> The prices are very reasonable, and for a modest upcharge, you can get custom geometry and custom colors.


Building my own bike does have a certain appeal and a Gunnar frame would be a good way to go for this. However, until I retire, I won't really have enough time for a project like this.


----------



## Migen21

Lombard said:


> Building my own bike does have a certain appeal and a Gunnar frame would be a good way to go for this. However, until I retire, I won't really have enough time for a project like this.


You don't have to do anything yourself if you don't want to (or have time to). Your local Gunnar dealer can work through the geometry with you (using Gunnars protocols), and you would just order a complete, otherwise 'stock' bike through them. It's no different that buying any other bike from them, it just takes a little longer and costs a little more.


----------



## Lombard

Migen21 said:


> You don't have to do anything yourself if you don't want to (or have time to). Your local Gunnar dealer can work through the geometry with you (using Gunnars protocols), and you would just order a complete, otherwise 'stock' bike through them. It's no different that buying any other bike from them, it just takes a little longer and costs a little more.


Well yes, I could just have them build me a custom bike for me. Do you think it's really worth the extra $$ to do this? And there is the other disadvantage of not being able to test ride before I buy. There is that possibility I could have them design my "dream bike" only to not like it once I get on it.


----------



## Migen21

Lombard said:


> Well yes, I could just have them build me a custom bike for me. Do you think it's really worth the extra $$ to do this? And there is the other disadvantage of not being able to test ride before I buy. There is that possibility I could have them design my "dream bike" only to not like it once I get on it.


I have no idea what anything is worth to someone else, or even if you need something other than a stock geometry.

All I know is that, as custom geometry offerings go, their prices are very reasonable. It's only a few hundred dollars more for this service. For other small mark ups, they offer additional bosses and other features. Things you could never get on most of the bikes mentioned in this thread.

Lastly, I'm just providing some info as possible options for someone who may be considering a Quiver Killer. Steel appeals to some. Custom and options appeal to some. Custom colors and finish options appeals to some. Made in the USA appeals to some. They offer all of these things at a reasonable price.

I've never owned a Gunnar, but I did consider it at one point a few years ago. If I had needed a custom geometry steel bike, they (or Waterford) would have been my choice.


----------



## Rashadabd

The new Diverge is up on Specialized's site for those that are interested. The price point for the lowest level carbon bike is perfect. Add hydraulic shifters and a carbon seatpost and you are ready to roll. 

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/men/bikes/road/performance/mensdivergesport/152240


----------



## TricrossRich

My LBS got a bunch of the Diverge Comps in and called me to let me know that they ere building them up. I stopped in and grabbed some pics. It is definitely a pretty nice bike. The Roubaix 30/32's are big, but there's still plenty of room to go bigger, easily 38's.










Here's a link to the full blog...

Hb Sneak Peak: Specialized Diverge | Crank Addicts


----------



## Rashadabd

TricrossRich said:


> My LBS got a bunch of the Diverge Comps in and called me to let me know that they ere building them up. I stopped in and grabbed some pics. It is definitely a pretty nice bike. The Roubaix 30/32's are big, but there's still plenty of room to go bigger, easily 38's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a link to the full blog...
> 
> Hb Sneak Peak: Specialized Diverge | Crank Addicts


Very cool. Thanks for sharing Rich. Update us if you get to take one out for a test ride.


----------



## cobra_kai

Rashadabd said:


> The new Diverge is up on Specialized's site for those that are interested. The price point for the lowest level carbon bike is perfect. Add hydraulic shifters and a carbon seatpost and you are ready to roll.
> 
> https://www.specialized.com/us/en/men/bikes/road/performance/mensdivergesport/152240


Really? $2100 for a tiagra bike sounds far from perfect to me. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Rashadabd

cobra_kai said:


> Really? $2100 for a tiagra bike sounds far from perfect to me.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


It's the frame and future shock system I am talking about. I don't even factor in the stock drivetrain all that much anymore because it is so easy to find affordable pieces for an upgrade online.


----------



## cobra_kai

I suppose that makes sense if you compare it to the frameset which is $2200, and you can probably keep some components from the stock build.


----------



## Rashadabd

cobra_kai said:


> I suppose that makes sense if you compare it to the frameset which is $2200, and you can probably keep some components from the stock build.


Exactly. I am a huge eBay and closeout sale shopper (usually Chain Reaction Cycles and Jenson USA) when it comes to components and small parts.


----------



## velodog

Migen21 said:


> I have no idea what anything is worth to someone else, or even if you need something other than a stock geometry.
> 
> All I know is that, as custom geometry offerings go, their prices are very reasonable. It's only a few hundred dollars more for this service. For other small mark ups, they offer additional bosses and other features. Things you could never get on most of the bikes mentioned in this thread.
> 
> Lastly, I'm just providing some info as possible options for someone who may be considering a Quiver Killer. Steel appeals to some. Custom and options appeal to some. Custom colors and finish options appeals to some. Made in the USA appeals to some. They offer all of these things at a reasonable price.
> 
> I've never owned a Gunnar, but I did consider it at one point a few years ago. If I had needed a custom geometry steel bike, they (or Waterford) would have been my choice.


And if you did some research it would be found that Waterford builds the frames for other brands.

My Boulder All Road is was built by Waterford and to my understanding many Rivendells are built by Waterford. A little looking would probably bring others to light.


----------



## TricrossRich

Rashadabd said:


> Very cool. Thanks for sharing Rich. Update us if you get to take one out for a test ride.


Yes... supposedly there's a demo thing coming up and I'm hoping to jump in on it.


----------



## kylesw

Hi guys, first time poster, so here goes:
I love the concept of a quiver killer bike. Of course, within the category there is a spectrum - some bikes are more suited for the road and others lean more towards the gravel/off road persuasion. For me, I like riding centuries and long climbs, and supplement with fast, short rides on weeknights. All riding is on pavement, but sometimes it can be quite rough with exposed aggregate and cracks galore. Based upon that, I've been searching for a quiver killer that leans towards the road end of things.

With that in mind, I'd like to give a shout out to my new quiver killer, the Diamondback Century 5 Carbon. It clears 32mm tires, is built up with quality components, and is competitively priced.

DB is off most people's radar due to its rep as a "walmart bike", but I really think people should keep it in mind as an option. The bikes can be found on sale for great deals, and the builds are on par with most other major brands.

I just received mine in the mail the other day, and have two rides totaling 50 miles. Thus far I am really impressed. The bike came boxed but mostly assembled, and it seems the factory did a good job (wheels true, fasteners properly torqued, etc). The wheelset is very nice (they are listed as HED flanders, but they are really just a rebadged ardennes, measuring 21mm internal and 26mm external). The rest of the bike is full ultegra with hydraulic disc brakes, and came dialed in (just had to mess with the cable tension a tiny bit). The stock prologo saddle seems quite comfy as well. 

The only changes I have made are swapping for a thomson 0 offset post (due to my personal geometry needs) and changing to Continental GP4000s II 28c tires (which, btw, measure out to 32.5 mm wide!). 

The frame stiffness is adequate to prevent chainrub while sprinting (and I weigh ~195 lbs), and the larger tires provide lots of comfort while still rolling fast.

The best way to describe the handling is 'accurate' - it goes right where you point it. It does not feel racy like a bike with a steep head tube that is so eager to turn, yet it does not feel sluggish at all. For me, the handling is 'just right'. 

FYI I purchased a 56cm frame, but am 6'3". I am the classic "long legged, short torso" type of guy. Conventional wisdom would suggest I buy a 58 or a 60, but the the 56 is perfect for me! Be sure to work with a bike fitter before you buy!

Let me know if you guys have further questions - I decided to post here because this thread brought me a lot of inspiration while choosing my newest bike. So I hope I can perpetuate the bike stoke!

Ready to ride:









Rear tire clearance at the seat stays:









Rear tire clearance at the chain stays:









Front tire clearance:


----------



## Rashadabd

kylesw said:


> Hi guys, first time poster, so here goes:
> I love the concept of a quiver killer bike. Of course, within the category there is a spectrum - some bikes are more suited for the road and others lean more towards the gravel/off road persuasion. For me, I like riding centuries and long climbs, and supplement with fast, short rides on weeknights. All riding is on pavement, but sometimes it can be quite rough with exposed aggregate and cracks galore. Based upon that, I've been searching for a quiver killer that leans towards the road end of things.
> 
> With that in mind, I'd like to give a shout out to my new quiver killer, the Diamondback Century 5 Carbon. It clears 32mm tires, is built up with quality components, and is competitively priced.
> 
> DB is off most people's radar due to its rep as a "walmart bike", but I really think people should keep it in mind as an option. The bikes can be found on sale for great deals, and the builds are on par with most other major brands.
> 
> I just received mine in the mail the other day, and have two rides totaling 50 miles. Thus far I am really impressed. The bike came boxed but mostly assembled, and it seems the factory did a good job (wheels true, fasteners properly torqued, etc). The wheelset is very nice (they are listed as HED flanders, but they are really just a rebadged ardennes, measuring 21mm internal and 26mm external). The rest of the bike is full ultegra with hydraulic disc brakes, and came dialed in (just had to mess with the cable tension a tiny bit). The stock prologo saddle seems quite comfy as well.
> 
> The only changes I have made are swapping for a thomson 0 offset post (due to my personal geometry needs) and changing to Continental GP4000s II 28c tires (which, btw, measure out to 32.5 mm wide!).
> 
> The frame stiffness is adequate to prevent chainrub while sprinting (and I weigh ~195 lbs), and the larger tires provide lots of comfort while still rolling fast.
> 
> The best way to describe the handling is 'accurate' - it goes right where you point it. It does not feel racy like a bike with a steep head tube that is so eager to turn, yet it does not feel sluggish at all. For me, the handling is 'just right'.
> 
> FYI I purchased a 56cm frame, but am 6'3". I am the classic "long legged, short torso" type of guy. Conventional wisdom would suggest I buy a 58 or a 60, but the the 56 is perfect for me! Be sure to work with a bike fitter before you buy!
> 
> Let me know if you guys have further questions - I decided to post here because this thread brought me a lot of inspiration while choosing my newest bike. So I hope I can perpetuate the bike stoke!
> 
> Ready to ride:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rear tire clearance at the seat stays:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rear tire clearance at the chain stays:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Front tire clearance:



Congrats on your new bike man and welcome. It looks good. There's nothing wrong with Diamondback bikes in my opinion. If they are what you like, then they are what you like. Team Rally Pro Cycling rides them and the bikes seem to hold up and perform just fine. Enjoy the bike and keep us updated.


----------



## Lombard

Congrats on your new bike, Kylesw! Wishing you many happy miles ahead!


----------



## JSR

Nice!

All bikes should be shiny and red on their first day.


----------



## Rashadabd

Winning big on gravel:

https://www.cxmagazine.com/interview-mat-stephens-2017-dirty-kanza-gravel-triple-crown


----------



## jason124

For those interested, here's a review of the new Specialized Diverge:

https://www.bikerumor.com/2017/06/19/first-ride-the-all-new-specialized-diverge-with-future-shock/


----------



## jason124

So today I had some time to kill as I was waiting for friends for dinner, went to a LBS to pick up some inner tubes and thought "what the hey... I'll test ride some bikes". 

Rode the following:
Marin Gestalt 3 (Sram Rival 1x)
Marin Lombard
Marin Nicasio SS 
Bianchi Lupo 
Bianchi Strada (only flatbar of the bunch) 

Honestly, I was not particularly wowed by them. Part of it could be the stems being set to rise instead of flat, giving a more upright riding position, but fitment just felt a little cramped (all were 54 cm). I did about 1-2 miles with each bike but it was also a very warm day here at 98-100-ish degrees. 

I was hoping to sell my Cross Check and get one of these to use for commuter duty and the occasional gravel grind, but I may just sell the CC and keep commuting with the KHS Flite 800.


----------



## 59Bassman

So this showed up today



It's my new Seven Axiom SL. Kinda designed as a quiver killer. Based around the ENVE GRD fork with clearance for 35c and fenders front and back. SRAM Force hydro disc. Pump peg and third bottle mount. Can't wait for the rain to stop - want a longer ride soon!


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## Lombard

jason124 said:


> So today I had some time to kill as I was waiting for friends for dinner, went to a LBS to pick up some inner tubes and thought "what the hey... I'll test ride some bikes".
> 
> Rode the following:
> Marin Gestalt 3 (Sram Rival 1x)
> *Marin Lombard *


Wow, there's a bike named after me!  



jason124 said:


> Honestly, I was not particularly wowed by them. Part of it could be the stems being set to rise instead of flat, giving a more upright riding position,* but fitment just felt a little cramped (all were 54 cm)*. I did about 1-2 miles with each bike but it was also a very warm day here at 98-100-ish degrees.


It sure sounds like your size may be a 56cm. :idea:


----------



## jason124

Lombard said:


> It sure sounds like your size may be a 56cm. :idea:


When I was fitted, I was informed my frame size should be in the 52/53 cm range. I just went with what the shop owner suggested based on my current bike size. Are gravel bikes also inherently little more upright than conventional road bikes? I do still like the idea of a bike that takes wider tires and has disc brakes, I also haven't ridden an endurance geometry frame, so it may just be my expectations are wrong.


----------



## Lombard

jason124 said:


> When I was fitted, I was informed my frame size should be in the 52/53 cm range. I just went with what the shop owner suggested based on my current bike size. Are gravel bikes also inherently little more upright than conventional road bikes? I do still like the idea of a bike that takes wider tires and has disc brakes, I also haven't ridden an endurance geometry frame, so it may just be my expectations are wrong.


Gravel bikes have similar geometry to endurance road bikes. Cyclocross bikes have similar geometry to race road bikes. So the more upright position may be new to you. If you prefer a lower, more aggressive race position, you may want to look at Cyclocross bikes instead of gravel bikes. Though unless you plan to be competitive with it, a more upright position makes more sense on gravel and other tricky terrain.

How tall are you? What is your inseam?


----------



## alexdi

kylesw said:


> Hi guys, first time poster, so here goes:
> 
> FYI I purchased a 56cm frame, but am 6'3". I am the classic "long legged, short torso" type of guy. Conventional wisdom would suggest I buy a 58 or a 60, but the the 56 is perfect for me! Be sure to work with a bike fitter before you buy!


I've been looking very hard at that exact bike for months. DB's pricing is more competitive than anyone and, IMO, it looks great. I'm also like you in that I've got more legs than torso.

What'd your inseam?


----------



## tangerineowl

Yeah, the DB Century is one good-value bike option for the tall inseam, short torso folks.


----------



## Migen21

It's been neglected since I picked up the RoadMachine, but my Norco Search is a great all around bike. These things won some awards when they first came out a few years ago. 

I thought I might sell it as redundant after I bought the RM, but decided I would keep it due to fitting tires up to 38mm-40mm. It's advertised at 35mm max, but I believe that is with fenders mounted. I put some 40mm GravelKing SK's on. They cleared everywhere with plenty of room. The only exception being the seat stays, where there was only about 2mm on each side between the edge of the tread and the frame. 

In these pictures I have 36mm Clement X'Plor MSO Tubeless installed, and there is more than enough room. 

It's really comfortable with the compact geometry. Lot's of exposed seatpost. I duplicated my road bike setup on this, but after yesterdays gravel ride, I decided to move the bars back and up a tad to lessen the load on my hands. 

It is also a dream on descents. I was bombing down a dirt rail trail yesterday at close to 30 mph. There were a couple spots of looser gravel in areas, and the bike just cruised right over them with no squirreliness at all. It instills a lot of confidence. 

I had a blast!


----------



## jason124

Lombard said:


> Gravel bikes have similar geometry to endurance road bikes. Cyclocross bikes have similar geometry to race road bikes. So the more upright position may be new to you. If you prefer a lower, more aggressive race position, you may want to look at Cyclocross bikes instead of gravel bikes. Though unless you plan to be competitive with it, a more upright position makes more sense on gravel and other tricky terrain.
> 
> How tall are you? What is your inseam?


The geometries makes sense now that you explain it. Doesn't CX bikes have higher bottom brackets which raises the center of gravity and makes them twitchier? 

I am 5'9" with a 31" inseam btw.


----------



## Lombard

jason124 said:


> The geometries makes sense now that you explain it. Doesn't CX bikes have higher bottom brackets which raises the center of gravity and makes them twitchier?


CX bikes do have slightly higher BB's. Will this make the bike twitchier? I can't answer that for sure. Do mountain bikes feel twitchy to you? They have higher BB's. My suggestion to you would be to test ride some and see how they feel to YOU.



jason124 said:


> I am 5'9" with a 31" inseam btw.


I'm 5'10" with a 32' inseam and I'm definitely a 56. You may be on the cusp between 54 and 56. I would suggest trying a 56 and see how it feels.


----------



## kylesw

alexdi said:


> I've been looking very hard at that exact bike for months. DB's pricing is more competitive than anyone and, IMO, it looks great. I'm also like you in that I've got more legs than torso.
> 
> What'd your inseam?


Yeah, I've been quite pleased with the fit+finish of the bike! It has been riding very nicely.

I have a true inseam of 91.5 cm, and a saddle height of 76.5 cm.


----------



## jason124

Lombard said:


> CX bikes do have slightly higher BB's. Will this make the bike twitchier? I can't answer that for sure. Do mountain bikes feel twitchy to you? They have higher BB's. My suggestion to you would be to test ride some and see how they feel to YOU.


I am basing the twitchy handling on my Cross Check as it is twitchy enough to make it difficult to ride without hands. Meanwhile when I ride my KHS, the steering is sharper (different rake and head tube angle, shorter wheel) but the ride is more stable and I can ride comfortably without hands.



Lombard said:


> I'm 5'10" with a 32' inseam and I'm definitely a 56. You may be on the cusp between 54 and 56. I would suggest trying a 56 and see how it feels.


I will have to keep that in mind next time I test ride, thanks for the info.


----------



## Rashadabd

Here's another option for the more road oriented crowd:

New Wilier Cento10 NDR comes with seat stay suspension - Cycling Weekly


----------



## JSR

Rashadabd said:


> Here's another option for the more road oriented crowd:
> 
> New Wilier Cento10 NDR comes with seat stay suspension - Cycling Weekly


Very nice. Very spendy.


----------



## Rashadabd

JSR said:


> Very nice. Very spendy.


Yeah Willier is always pricey. All Italian bike brands seem to be for the most part.


----------



## velodog

Some interesting reading.

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2017/07/11/what-is-a-road-bike/


----------



## velodog

Rawland Ulv


----------



## Rashadabd

velodog said:


> Rawland Ulv
> 
> <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Lx
> 
> Look at that monstercross gravel eating beast. Not my thing, but it's interesting.


----------



## Drone 5200

What do you guys think of the trek Domane SLR? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rashadabd

Drone 5200 said:


> What do you guys think of the trek Domane SLR?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Love it and think it is an incredible value now that they have dropped the price. Planning to get the SL frameset before winter and then hoping my wife is kind enough to look the other way when I try to add add a Diverge for gravel racing the following season.


----------



## cobra_kai

Rashadabd said:


> Love it and think it is an incredible value now that they have dropped the price. Planning to get the SL frameset before winter and then hoping my wife is kind enough to look the other way when I try to add add a Diverge for gravel racing the following season.


Lol, so much for the quiver killer. Don't you think the diverge is a little upright for racing now? 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Migen21

I saw that video. It looks like a great bike for bike packing, but it's not going to replace my road bike.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## Drone 5200

Rashadabd said:


> Love it and think it is an incredible value now that they have dropped the price. Planning to get the SL frameset before winter and then hoping my wife is kind enough to look the other way when I try to add add a Diverge for gravel racing the following season.


Yeah, the 2018 SL caliper brake version at $1580 is a good deal. Too bad they don't have a 2018 SL disc. The 2017 SL disc is still available in my size but at $2360 for last year's model, I might as well jump up to the SLR disc ($3000). Maybe I'll wait a couple of months to see if they put the 2017 on sale.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rashadabd

cobra_kai said:


> Lol, so much for the quiver killer. Don't you think the diverge is a little upright for racing now?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Yep, that didn't quite turn out like I planned, but it's has actually been over for a while. I broke down and bought a Ridley road bike about a month or two ago. To be honest, I really never should have sold the Allez Sprint I was building up. I was like 70% done, but sold it once I got blinded by the one bike to rule them all gravel grinder vision. But you live and you learn, bygones, whatever. So, yes, I will likely end up with at least two bikes, the Domane SL frameset will upgrade my Ridley and I would like to add the Diverge or something like it (theres a good chance I will probably keep the Ridley too). I have no qualms about racing the Diverge. People perform well (and win) on the Slate, MTBs, and all kinds of things of things in these events. These things are wars of attrition and you win based on the engine, and your ability to navigate (and survive) the conditions. You can be on the most aero thing out there and it won't help you without those attributes. Aerodynamics truly is not everything in gravel racing (though aero bars have helped some folks).


----------



## Rashadabd

Deleted


----------



## Rashadabd

*Norco Search XR*

A new gravel platform from Norco:

Norco Search XR rolls out | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos


----------



## Migen21

Rashadabd said:


> A new gravel platform from Norco:
> 
> Norco Search XR rolls out | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos


They released the standard 2018 Search platforms a few week ago. I would consider the standard Search Carbon and Search Aluminum more accurately described as quiver killers, as the are closer to a traditional road bike (I own a 2015 Search Carbon Ultegra Di2 and I love it!).

The Search XR is more of a hybrid between Hardtail XC MTB and Road - I think some describe these are 'Monster Cross'. It has up to 45mm tire capacity, lots of mount points for various hardware (fenders, racks, etc...). Ideal for cross country bike packing and more challenging technical terrain. Price point is decent too!

I'm tempted to build an XR, as my current max tire capacity is about 38mm on my current Search and my Volagi Ti Viaje. Trading in my current Search Carbon for the XR would open up some gravel trails in my area that are just a tad too much for my current 38mm setup. I had been pondering a hardtail MTB for this, but the XR is affordable, and having experience with the Norco brand, I am confident in the quality of the frameset. 

Now for the dilemma of whether to go with a SRAM 1X setup, or stick to Ultegra Di2....

My local LBS received a few of these last week. I need to stop by and take one for a spin.


----------



## Rashadabd

Migen21 said:


> They released the standard 2018 Search platforms a few week ago. I would consider the standard Search Carbon and Search Aluminum more accurately described as quiver killers, as the are closer to a traditional road bike (I own a 2015 Search Carbon Ultegra Di2 and I love it!).
> 
> The Search XR is more of a hybrid between Hardtail XC MTB and Road - I think some describe these are 'Monster Cross'. It has up to 45mm tire capacity, lots of mount points for various hardware (fenders, racks, etc...). Ideal for cross country bike packing and more challenging technical terrain. Price point is decent too!
> 
> I'm tempted to build an XR, as my current max tire capacity is about 38mm on my current Search and my Volagi Ti Viaje. Trading in my current Search Carbon for the XR would open up some gravel trails in my area that are just a tad too much for my current 38mm setup. I had been pondering a hardtail MTB for this, but the XR is affordable, and having experience with the Norco brand, I am confident in the quality of the frameset.
> 
> Now for the dilemma of whether to go with a SRAM 1X setup, or stick to Ultegra Di2....
> 
> My local LBS received a few of these last week. I need to stop by and take one for a spin.


That's a fair assessment, but I still like it for some of the same reasons you do. I think the new Diverge is still my favorite, but this one seems cool as well.


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## Migen21

Again, this isn't really a quiver killer, although it wouldn't be a terrible choice for an only bike if you were inclined to do a lot of hard gravel riding..

Peleton Magazine review of the Norco Search XR 
On Test: Norco Search XR Ultegra - Peloton Magazine


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## Rashadabd

Now that I am all settled with my new Fuji SL Disc for road riding, I feel likes it's time to make some progress on my gravel project/dream. I looked closely at getting a TT bike for some TTs and Tris or a CX bike, but after thinking it over and being honest with myself about a few things, I just feel like gravel would be more fun for and something I will do more often. I boiled my list of potential rides down to about five thus far. All have massive tire clearance, have been given thumbs up in numerous reviews as being both comfortable enough for long days in the saddle on bumpy gravel terrain and light singletrack and yet quick and nimble enough to be competitive and fun to ride:

1) 2018 Specialized Diverge Sport

2) 2018 Salsa Warbird Apex 1 Carbon

3). Niner RLT RDO 3

4.) 2018 Norco Search XR

5.) Open U.P. or 3T Exploro

I feel like it will probably come down to the Warbird or the Diverge all things considered. They check all of my boxes and I like what you get for the price and they have a range of reasonably priced models with different component options. Has anyone tested wither of these (or the others)? If so, what are your thoughts?


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## blatido

So kylesw, after about 6 months, what's your opinion on the DB Century 5 Carbon? I haven't found many owner's opinions/reviews on the internet, and its a bike I've been seriously considering...


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## wradom

Has anyone raced one of these on the road whether it be a normal road race or crit? Curious how some of these would hold up with a pair of 25mm tires on them once in awhile.. I'm assuming they would do just fine..


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## mtnbkr80015

Just sold my mountain bike (Cannondale Trigger Black Inc), gravel/road bike (Cannondale Slate), and Salsa Journeyman for my dream bike quiver killer....Salsa Cutthroat Rival One. I’ve made some upgrades so far including Eesilk post, Shockstop stem, wider bars, Carbon wheelset and saddle and lighter tires. It weighs 21 lbs 7 oz ready to ride with Pedals, cages, pump and top tube bag with a spare tube and multitool. I am looking forward to riding road, singletrack and gravel after the few hours I have on the bike so far. It may not be the best tool for every situation but it is one bike that does it all. And I can bike pack with it too. Definitely a quiver killer










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## DocRogers

Not exactly a quiver killer, since I’m not actually getting rid of any of my other bikes, but I have been riding this one a ton since I got it. Works surprisingly well on singletrack, and would doubtless be better with semiknobbies.










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## threebikes

Great thread Rashadabd.


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## mtnbkr80015

even more capable off-road with the new Lauf Trail Racer 


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