# would you feel robbed if....



## rach (Mar 10, 2009)

Just testing the waters here......

would you feel robbed if you had an RRP $6K lemond, and they offered you a RRP $3000 4.7 madone as a warranty replacement?

 

computer says no.


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## Tlaloc (May 12, 2005)

*Yes*

What's "RRP"?

I couldn't accept anything less than a six series because I need the H1 fit. Be sure the head tube isn't too long for you.


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## jrchan (May 10, 2008)

What kind of Lemond is it?


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## Jaxattax (Dec 13, 2005)

Not enough information. 
What year and type LeMond are you talking about? Warranty replacements are for frames only. What LeMond frame cost $6K?


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## smarkgraf (May 17, 2009)

RRP is reccommended retail price. 

The question would be, are you getting an equivalent or better frame. There is a post on here where Trek warrantied an 5.2 OCLV frame with a 5.9 TCT frame.


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## Tlaloc (May 12, 2005)

smarkgraf said:


> RRP is reccommended retail price...


Generally the acronym for that is MSRP for Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price.


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## Allez Rouge (Jan 1, 1970)

Agreed, not enough information. Most vitally, who is the "they" who are doing the offering?

If this is an insurance claim without a replacement-value clause, then a $3000 bike to replace a destroyed/stolen/whatever $6000 bike that was a couple-three years old might well be fair. Hard to swallow, maybe, but possibly very fair under the terms of the policy.

That's just to make one example. We need to know more.


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## rach (Mar 10, 2009)

they = trek, this a straight warranty - the seat stay cracked on the lemond right above the drop out 

It is a 2008 model lemond victoire (carbon/dura ace).
They are offering the 4.7 madone frame in exchange. 
oh - and the figures were in AUD - sorry, I am down under.

I accept part of the difference in RRP / MRSP is components as my lemond was spec'd out - but definitely not all. I did a comparison in the 5 series range - where you can assume the frame cost is held static across the bikes. From what I can see there is around $1050 USD in the wheel upgrade and components between the bottom of the 5 series and the top. So based on Trek's argument to me I am missing around $700 USD in value with the current trade.

I would have expected atleast a 5.1 to be of equal value. The forks on the lemond were the race x lite. 4 series only has race lite. Seems to be further evidence that it doesnt add up.

I have sent my example and concerns to trek based on their USD pricing on the Trek website, and asked that they provide a similar worked example with Australian pricing documented in writing back so I can be satifised. Will be interesting to see if they can.

Thanks for your input.


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## Jaxattax (Dec 13, 2005)

rach said:


> they = trek, this a straight warranty - the seat stay cracked on the lemond right above the drop out


Man, that's sad. I've got the same bike and would be crushed if the frame cracked anywhere. 

At least you have a warranty. If mine cracks I'm screwed since I picked it up second hand.

Good luck with your appeal. Let us know how it turns out.


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

I would be mad if they didn't give me a 5 series, since I have a 5 series.

But other than that, I can't say I would be too upset.


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

Close call. Depends on how you like the frame, really. Have you had an opportunity to ride a 4.7?

The Lemond was a good frame, so is the 4.7. I honestly feel the 4.7 TCT carbon frame has slightly better and newer technology that is present in the 5 and 6 series designs from 2008/2009. Even though the Madone fork is a RL, it has the E2 steerer, something the Lemond lacks. Plus it has the integrated Duotrap thing for wireless computers which is pretty cool. I would take the RL E2 fork over the older style RXL fork any day. It is stiffer and stronger, and it might even be lighter. (While the 4.7 doesn't have the integrated seat mast and the integrated BB shell, neither does the Victoire.) To me the Victoire was an older design in its last year(s) while the 4.7 was a new design and benefited from new tech. Lastly, you are getting a brand spanking new carbon frame and fork, that is fairly high end (presently), in exchange for a 3 year old frame and fork that was fairly high end (3 years ago).

If you feel shorted, ask them to throw in a new duotrap compatible computer and sensor. 

You will be able to swap over your components and kit to the Madone, so that is not an issue.

All in all, I don't think you are getting shorted, but if you feel you are, then I would press for something better, and see what happens.

HTH a little
zac


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## rach (Mar 10, 2009)

cool, well good to know. Trek are in a mess here after the Trek Bike Australia/ Trek USA swap out and I have already been 3 months waiting because they couldn't sort their admin. 

4.7 it is, and time to get riding.


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

I wold not feel robbed, the Madone 4.7 is easily an equivalent frame to the Lemond, don't let the spec differences of the boxed bikes concern you. I have ridden both, the Lemond is a little smoother riding but also a bit flexy, the Madone 4 series bike is very solid.


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## rach (Mar 10, 2009)

I've never noticed - I'd guess it's not flexy if you are 58kg 

the true tragedy here is that my lemond broke - perfect bike for long days in the saddle.
time to start getting over it and accept instead of my Lemon D (it was yellow) I now have something that is probably going to get called (perhaps unfairly) the Blue Horror.


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## Swerny (Mar 4, 2008)

I wondered what Trek would do in the case of broken LeMonds. 

I have a 2008 Zurich and wonder what I would get in the way of warranty replacement?


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

*Rrp?*

Or, MSRP or whatever you want to call it, is not the driving factor in most warranty replacement scenarios.


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## rach (Mar 10, 2009)

Argentius said:


> Or, MSRP or whatever you want to call it, is not the driving factor in most warranty replacement scenarios.


really? how do you define equal value then?

I think at least the law in australia is that 'equal or higher value' needs to be based on dollars. Otherwise sheesh, we'd all be getting ripped off by snakeoil salesmen who overstate the 'value' of their product.

As for the Zurich question - don't break it!! 
If a Victoire is worth a 4.7 .... well, one would think for a zurich you'd have to look lower...


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## smarkgraf (May 17, 2009)

rach

From what I found on the web your bike's MSRP was $5279.99us and a new Madone 4.7 has an MSRP of $2519.99us for a delta of $2760us. Based on what I could find for component costs, the delta is about $2300-2400us. That leaves around $360-$460us on the table.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

I am not a lawyer in the US, let alone Australia.

But, why are we talking about the MSRP of a complete bicycle? 

They are only replacing a frame, right?




rach said:


> really? how do you define equal value then?
> 
> I think at least the law in australia is that 'equal or higher value' needs to be based on dollars. Otherwise sheesh, we'd all be getting ripped off by snakeoil salesmen who overstate the 'value' of their product.
> 
> ...


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## rach (Mar 10, 2009)

smarkgraf said:


> rach
> 
> From what I found on the web your bike's MSRP was $5279.99us and a new Madone 4.7 has an MSRP of $2519.99us for a delta of $2760us. Based on what I could find for component costs, the delta is about $2300-2400us. That leaves around $360-$460us on the table.


Hi Smarkgraf, thanks for checking it out. That's less than equal value or higher value. 
Out of interest where did you get the prices? I'd like to make the list for myself.


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## smarkgraf (May 17, 2009)

I got the MSRP's and specs for your bike from Bikepedia:
http://www.bikepedia.com/quickbike/BikeSpecs.aspx?Year=2008&Brand=LeMond&Model=Victoire&Type=bike

The MSRP for the Madone 4.7 and Bontrager components from the TREK site.
The Group costs from Competative Cyclist:
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=BUY_GRUPPO

I did see the DA group for as much as $2700 and the 105 group for as little as $995, but not from the same site.


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