# Upgrade to Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheelset?



## Stantone (Sep 16, 2012)

I'm considering upgrading my wheelset to 2012 Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheelset that just came up on CL in my area. I'm an older rider, 70-100 mi. a week on an older (2001) LeMond Zurich with stock Aurora Matrix wheels. I'm running Ultegra 9 speed. Will the Mavic's work with a 9 speed? (hub is Shimano/Sram) Is the upgrade worth it for such an old bike? I typically ride rough roads, will these wheels be a harsh ride? Is $450 reasonable if they are indeed in excellent condition, very low miles as advertised? I'm 64, weigh 140, looking to do some centuries this summer. Thanks.


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## skinewmexico (Apr 19, 2010)

When you can get the new, wide Neuvation for $399 new, that doesn't sound like a very good deal to me. It's not very hard to find a used set of Mavic Ksyrium SLs in the $300-400 price range.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

i'm one of many on this forum that know Mavic wheels are nothing special. in fact, they've tried (for some reason) to re-invent the wheel and have ended up taking a few steps in the wrong direction. because of their involvement w/ pro racing and the extremely high visibility they get because of that, they've managed to get a crazy amount of OEM spec and also a ton of aftermarket sales. 
the wheels are not very smart in a number of ways. since i'm currently well caffeinated i'll list them for you. 
1) low spoke count...this means the rim must be heavier to maintain strength. this is why Mavic mills out the area between the spokes (they call it 'ISM') to keep the weight reasonable. as anyone that has the slightest knowledge of physics knows, the rim is the last place you want to add unnecessary weight.
2) proprietary spokes/hubs/rims...this means if/when you damage a wheel, you have to find a shop that actually has the parts to fix it. good luck w/ that. 
3) the spokes are threaded directly into the rim. this requires large, threaded holes in the rim. this creates stress risers and many Mavic rims crack well before they're worn out. 
4) the Mavic freehub is about the worst engineered product in all of cycling. one cartridge bearing on the outside where the load is lowest, and a phenolic bushing on the inside where the load is greatest. EVERY other freehub in the world runs on 2 bearings. the Mavic freehub needs frequent lubrication (every 2-4mos for most users) to keep it working properly. 
there are literally thousands and thousands of Mavic wheels in use and most of them work just fine. but...if you want something that is light-ish, dependable, and not expensive, there are many other good options. Elites are going brand-new with tires for $799 or less every day, so the ones you're looking at (if near-new) aren't a bad deal. the wheels have nearly zero impact on ride quality compared to tire size, construction, and pressure. if you want a nice ride, get some good quality 25mm tires and inflate them to 80-85 rear and 70 or so in the front at your weight.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Mavic Ksyrium Elites are okay wheels. They were stock on my 2005 Orbea Onix, and I know that more recent versions are lighter, but even then the new ones aren't the best value for what you spend. I'd second the motion on a set of Neuvations for $399, or I'd also consider the Boyd Roleur set for comparable money.


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## Clipped_in (May 5, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> i'm one of many on this forum that know Mavic wheels are nothing special. in fact, they've tried (for some reason) to re-invent the wheel and have ended up taking a few steps in the wrong direction. because of their involvement w/ pro racing and the extremely high visibility they get because of that, they've managed to get a crazy amount of OEM spec and also a ton of aftermarket sales.
> the wheels are not very smart in a number of ways. since i'm currently well caffeinated i'll list them for you.
> 1) low spoke count...this means the rim must be heavier to maintain strength. this is why Mavic mills out the area between the spokes (they call it 'ISM') to keep the weight reasonable. as anyone that has the slightest knowledge of physics knows, the rim is the last place you want to add unnecessary weight.
> 2) proprietary spokes/hubs/rims...this means if/when you damage a wheel, you have to find a shop that actually has the parts to fix it. good luck w/ that.
> ...


Nice post. I agree completely!


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## Stantone (Sep 16, 2012)

Thanks for the replies - exactly the info I was seeking. I am now thinking new might be a better way to go. Now I have to convince myself such an upgrade is worth the $$. I intend to try 25's as soon as current tires show some wear. And cxwrench, your next cup's on me : )


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## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

cxwrench said:


> i'm one of many on this forum that know Mavic wheels are nothing special. in fact, they've tried (for some reason) to re-invent the wheel and have ended up taking a few steps in the wrong direction. because of their involvement w/ pro racing and the extremely high visibility they get because of that, they've managed to get a crazy amount of OEM spec and also a ton of aftermarket sales.
> the wheels are not very smart in a number of ways. since i'm currently well caffeinated i'll list them for you.
> 1) low spoke count...this means the rim must be heavier to maintain strength. this is why Mavic mills out the area between the spokes (they call it 'ISM') to keep the weight reasonable. as anyone that has the slightest knowledge of physics knows, the rim is the last place you want to add unnecessary weight.
> 2) proprietary spokes/hubs/rims...this means if/when you damage a wheel, you have to find a shop that actually has the parts to fix it. good luck w/ that.
> ...


Great post. 
I need that printed out in a wallet-size so everytime someone rolls up showing off their new set of Mavic super wheels, I can just hand them a card and say "read this".


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

Agreed TK. cxwrench pretty much summed it up.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

cxwrench said:


> i'm one of many on this forum that know Mavic wheels are nothing special. in fact, they've tried (for some reason) to re-invent the wheel and have ended up taking a few steps in the wrong direction. because of their involvement w/ pro racing and the extremely high visibility they get because of that, they've managed to get a crazy amount of OEM spec and also a ton of aftermarket sales.
> the wheels are not very smart in a number of ways. since i'm currently well caffeinated i'll list them for you.
> 1) low spoke count...this means the rim must be heavier to maintain strength. this is why Mavic mills out the area between the spokes (they call it 'ISM') to keep the weight reasonable. as anyone that has the slightest knowledge of physics knows, the rim is the last place you want to add unnecessary weight.
> 2) proprietary spokes/hubs/rims...this means if/when you damage a wheel, you have to find a shop that actually has the parts to fix it. good luck w/ that.
> ...


One more vote of agreement. I have never really forgiven MAVIC for starting this whole boutique wheel business. It's resulted in a greatly diminished skill set among bike mechanics (lots no longer know how to build wheels) and a greatly dimished selection of rims, spokes, and hubs. And (until you get into the CF tubular wheels) no substantial performance increase but a substantial price increase for wheels that are really just average.


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## bwbishop (Sep 17, 2011)

I feel like cxwrench's post should sit by itself as a sticky in this forum


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## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

It should be the first thing that comes up if anybody Googles Mavic.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

wow, thanks guys. i'm used to being the *sshole on this forum and people getting pissed at me all the time. this is kinda nice for a change!


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> wow, thanks guys. i'm used to being the *sshole on this forum and people getting pissed at me all the time. this is kinda nice for a change!


The only people that think you're an *sshole are the ones that can't take the truth. You know your sh!t, and you tell it like it is. :thumbsup:


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

People dont like hearing they spent $500-$1000 on the worst performing wheels out there.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

cxwrench said:


> wow, thanks guys. i'm used to being the *sshole on this forum and people getting pissed at me all the time. this is kinda nice for a change!


Heck, don't put yourself down like that *cx*!! Let us do it for you!  Naww, just kidding mate!

You left out a point about the Mavic - they need a special spoke wrench. A person for whom I used to mechanic their race bikes came to me one day with a set of Mavic "high end" wheels that needed a bit of truing. Those wheels came standard on the bike they had just bought. They had heard my rants about wheelsets with proprietary parts many times but, as we know, it's tough to buy a complete bike that doesn't sport a set of wheels something like these. So in their naivety they wheeled this bike in with a "Can you true these, I have a race tomorrow?" familiar request.

As I'm not a shop that has to fix all kinds of bikes to stay in business, I didn't have a wrench to fit so I couldn't help this person. I told 'em that if they bought themselves a wrench, I'd true the wheels. I dunno what happened but I never saw that set of wheels again, I'm very happy to say.

In addition to this, another time, same person, earlier wheels - they had a bike with the low-end Shimano wheels (I forget the model number) with something like 16/20 spokes or 20/24 and I was working on it one day. I'd just acquired a set of OpenPro/Ultegra/DT Comp/32/32 wheels for my own dirt road bike. I wanted some "dirt" on those Shimano wheels so while I was tinkering with the bike I popped the wheels out and removed tires and cassette and weighed the wheels - yessssss, they were *heavier* than my new bulletproof 32/32 "curmudgeon" wheels - wheels that would have made even Peter White proud.

I knocked over a pound in weight off her wheels by getting her a set of BWW Blackset Race that weighed 1371g and that had sensible (for her approx 100-130lbs of bodyweight) 24/28 DT Rev spokes. And those wheels went for an incredible $330 at the time too.

The URL for this whole thread is now saved in my .txt files as a great future resource. Thanks for spelling out the plain facts *cx*.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

you're right as usual Mike, another good point. you can't even true them if you don't have the proprietary tool(s)!


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

cxwrench said:


> wow, thanks guys. i'm used to being the *sshole on this forum and people getting pissed at me all the time. this is kinda nice for a change!


Your posts are always on target cx. Thanks for you insight!


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

cxwrench said:


> wow, thanks guys. i'm used to being the *sshole on this forum and people getting pissed at me all the time. this is kinda nice for a change!


Aw come on! I've got your back


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## bwbishop (Sep 17, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> wow, thanks guys. i'm used to being the *sshole on this forum and people getting pissed at me all the time. this is kinda nice for a change!


It doesn't mean we don't think you're and @sshole,we just happen to agree with you this time ;-)


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## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

You know how many "Mavic guys" are squirming reading this and don't know what to do? They want to defend their beloved wheels but fear flamage. Too funny.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

bwbishop said:


> It doesn't mean we don't think you're and @sshole,we just happen to agree with you this time ;-)


that's more like it! :thumbsup:


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## ray-rayongbiketours (Jul 14, 2013)

cxwrench said:


> i'm one of many on this forum that know Mavic wheels are nothing special. in fact, they've tried (for some reason) to re-invent the wheel and have ended up taking a few steps in the wrong direction. because of their involvement w/ pro racing and the extremely high visibility they get because of that, they've managed to get a crazy amount of OEM spec and also a ton of aftermarket sales.
> the wheels are not very smart in a number of ways. since i'm currently well caffeinated i'll list them for you.
> 1) low spoke count...this means the rim must be heavier to maintain strength. this is why Mavic mills out the area between the spokes (they call it 'ISM') to keep the weight reasonable. as anyone that has the slightest knowledge of physics knows, the rim is the last place you want to add unnecessary weight.
> 2) proprietary spokes/hubs/rims...this means if/when you damage a wheel, you have to find a shop that actually has the parts to fix it. good luck w/ that.
> ...


Looking into a new wheelset and found this valuable piece of information and just wan't to say thank you.


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## Wakatuki (Sep 26, 2013)

I joined this forum to say thanks, you have just saved me from what sounds like a big mistake cxwrench.. Thanks.
If I could bend your ear, I weigh always around 97kg to 100kg! Ride a Scott Foil 40. Its standard R501's are round, but EVERYONE says it's weakest point, I am currently riding a 23 on the front and a roubiax 23/25 on the back. I have 2 new GP400s 25's in the box to replace these when they fail. 
In the same price range as the mavics what would you recommend? I climb hills, alot and do flat bunch rides of 40ish k's 3 times a week and riding solo I max out at about 100k's per trip... Oh and what PSI??:idea:

Next time you're in Oz I'll buy you a beer!


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## bikerector (Oct 31, 2012)

I'm your weight, 700x25's are the way to go, maybe even 28's if they'll fit.

Pressure, I run about 100 psi up front and 105 psi rear. I'm probably a bit high in the front but it feels nice having a little harder tire int he front for sprint training since it's cx season and I'm doing a lot of max effort training. I don't like the squishy tire feel for that. For comfortable riding maybe drop 5psi and give it a go. For 700x28's I was in the ballpark of 70 front 80 rear and the ride was very nice.

You're not so heavy that regular wheels are a problem but super ultra mega lightweight may not be the best. 

The neuvations mentioned earlier are a good choice. Mavic open pro with ultegra hubs is a good choice. I'm a fan of velocity wheels since they're office is local, velocity A23's have treated me really well. I think they also have a big facility in Australia so they should be easy to come by, might even have been started in Australia. Velocity deep V's or dyad's are more durable rims but weigh more. A23's are the racing rims but they seem to hold up pretty well still. 28f 32r spokes would be a nice durable build with the A23's for a light wheelset.

Pricepoint would be helpful to know as well.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

I weigh in at about 88 kg

Despite the issues with the freehub (which I haven't had issues yet)... 

I am quite content with the Kysrium Elites. When my Conti GP 4-seasons wear out, I'm going tubeless, which is an easy conversion, despite not being design for tubeless in the first place.

fortunately my LBS has the tools and spare parts to service my wheels (and I did have one go out of true after a crash)....

when the freehub bushing goes.... I'll be getting myself a custom build with Stan's Alpha 400 (as my other bikes have Stan's rims)

Shimano wheelsets are nice, but their tubeless ready ones have the similar weaknesses in the rim as the Kysrium Elite & SLS


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## black7 (Sep 11, 2012)

I've had Bontrager, Shimano, numerous Vuelta wheels, and both Equipe and Elites, and for reliability and feel, the Mavics are excellent and an extremely good value. I've blown out spokes, and spoke nipples, ruined bearing races by trying to push double the mileage before a teardown, bent rims, etc, but never with the Mavics. I read the prevailing opinions about these wheels, but got a great deal on a set of used returns from the LBS. I didn't even want to put them on my bike until I broke a spoke on my Corsa Team V rims and used the front as a temp replacement. I could immediately tell a difference and I like it enough that I bought a second set so I have a backup while the Team V's are being rebuilt one more time before I sell them. 

I really really tried not to like them, but in the end, I'm sold on Mavics. I ride about 4000 to 5000 miles a year. If I get a couple years out of them, I'd say I got my $ worth. Maybe I'm lucky. I consider myself lucky to have given them a chance rather then simpy follow the crowd.


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## masi85 (Feb 20, 2007)

I totally agree with black7. No matter all the supposed faults of Mavic wheels listed exhaustively above, in my personal experience and the people I ride with Mavic wheels (along with Campagnolo wheels) are the most reliable wheels you can buy. Also, any decent pro-shop (including some Performance bike shops) have the parts in stock to do any repairs necessary. I've had Neuvation and Bicycle Wheel Warehouse wheelsets and still keep coming back to Mavic for their bullet proof reliability. The only defect I can find is I find Mavic Ksyrium SL wheels can be somewhat harsh riding on some frames.


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## Jesw60 (Nov 13, 2013)

*Oh dear*



cxwrench said:


> i'm one of many on this forum that know Mavic wheels are nothing special. in fact, they've tried (for some reason) to re-invent the wheel and have ended up taking a few steps in the wrong direction. because of their involvement w/ pro racing and the extremely high visibility they get because of that, they've managed to get a crazy amount of OEM spec and also a ton of aftermarket sales.
> the wheels are not very smart in a number of ways. since i'm currently well caffeinated i'll list them for you.
> 1) low spoke count...this means the rim must be heavier to maintain strength. this is why Mavic mills out the area between the spokes (they call it 'ISM') to keep the weight reasonable. as anyone that has the slightest knowledge of physics knows, the rim is the last place you want to add unnecessary weight.
> 2) proprietary spokes/hubs/rims...this means if/when you damage a wheel, you have to find a shop that actually has the parts to fix it. good luck w/ that.
> ...



i wish I read this before splashing £500 on new MKE wheel set. I don't feel any real difference to the Bontrager standard wheel set that came with Trek Madone 3.1. Maybe I am not good enough cyclist. Every now and again on good roads with a bit of downhill it feels bit faster but generally up the hill or in the wind it just feels the same but less comfortable.


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## kps88 (Dec 3, 2013)

My lbs carries Mavic and services them. Prior to upgrading from myAksium to Elite wheels, I did plenty of research. There was way, way too many positive reviews by general people and more experienced. Sorry, but had no concern whatsoever. Maybe some just had a bad experience and want to dump on the wheelsets. These few opinions are certainly in the minority.


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## kps88 (Dec 3, 2013)

I really hope you did some research and not rely on one poster and a couple that agreed. I reviewed hundred or more and more than 90% were positive. I know 3 riders that have them and love them. 



Stantone said:


> Thanks for the replies - exactly the info I was seeking. I am now thinking new might be a better way to go. Now I have to convince myself such an upgrade is worth the $$. I intend to try 25's as soon as current tires show some wear. And cxwrench, your next cup's on me : )


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## WITHND (Feb 11, 2014)

I have Mavic Aksium Race wheels on my 2014 Jamis Xenith Race I have heard these are good except maybe a little heavy compared to other options if I want to race in the future... So far I have had no issues with them I weigh about 160lbs and am 5' 11'' so I would think these should be more than handy for a good while...?


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## TucsonMTB (Aug 3, 2008)

Great thread. Thank you all for sharing your experience, gentlemen.

I just purchased a set of the Ksyrium Elite S wheels that have not been delivered yet. My old wheels are the previous version with nearly 20,000 miles on them, according to my cyclometer which rolls over at 10,000 miles back to zero, and is nearly ready to do that again with the older wheels in service on my Scott Addict. Actually, it may already have rolled over twice. I am old and my memory is not great. The Addict was new in 2008 and I ride a fair amount. Being an ex-racer who has retired in a part of the planet where the weather is wonderful year round will definitely help increase your mileage. 

Today, I noticed a slight side "blip" in the front wheel. Not knowing that the nipple has left hand threads, I backed it off a quarter turn before realizing it goes the other way and the last couple of threads separated from the nipple, staying in the rim. Fortunately, they were not too difficult to remove and a little heat from the gas range top made it possible to unscrew the little brass wedge from the end of the spoke itself. It was then possible to grind a little material off the portion of the wedge that bears against the nipple, allowing the shortened nipple to work just fine.

Yes, that nipple sits a bit lower in the hole in the rim now, but the wheel is perfectly true again. Admittedly, I don't completely trust it. Just like conventional spoke nipples that usually seem to fail several at a time when they start to fatigue, I anticipate future problems, especially with aluminum. Hence the wheel set purchase as insurance. I'm a little afraid to mess with the rear wheel which also seems to be going out of true very slightly. Once the replacement is on hand, that may change.

Anyway, given the many trouble free miles of riding on roads that are sometimes a challenge, including the occasional pass through an unexpected gap in the pavement, it feels like I "got my money's worth" out of the first set of Mavic Ksyrium Elites. So, I am looking forward to similar good service with the new set when they arrive.

Yeah, I also have some great Neuvation wheels and would have been quick to go back to John if he were still in business. But, apparently, he is not. The current pricing on comparable wheels from other smaller (and larger) suppliers is not that different from Mavic pricing. In fact, I experienced a little sticker shock before finding a well priced set of the current Elite S version.

Anyway . . . Sorry about the book . . . but, despite the possible design failings you have pointed out, my experience with Elites has been very positive and I hope it continues.


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## tednugent (Apr 26, 2010)

TucsonMTB said:


> Yeah, I also have some great Neuvation wheels and would have been quick to go back to John if he were still in business. But, apparently, he is not. The current pricing on comparable wheels from other smaller (and larger) suppliers is not that different from Mavic pricing. In fact, I experienced a little sticker shock before finding a well priced set of the current Elite S version.
> 
> Anyway . . . Sorry about the book . . . but, despite the possible design failings you have pointed out, my experience with Elites has been very positive and I hope it continues.


there's some thread a week or so ago, about Jon starting up again.

See
Home


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## skinewmexico (Apr 19, 2010)

The new Neugent web page - Home. Flo 30s are a pretty good deal for the buck too.


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## TucsonMTB (Aug 3, 2008)

tednugent said:


> there's some thread a week or so ago, about Jon starting up again.
> 
> See
> Neugent Cycling Home


Hey, Mr. TedNugent!

Thanks for the heads up. The California built offerings look nice and light.

But, timing is everything . . . if we need another set, I will try them.

Thanks again from the old guy who just bought his next few years worth of wheels.


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## force10 (Dec 17, 2019)

Hi. I am resurrecting this thread because I am looking for recommendations for new wheels for an 01 Zurich I recently picked up. I was considering the Ksyriums and...you can imagine the search terms that led me here.

FWIW, I weigh about 210# and am looking for something for group rides of 35-75 miles on imperfect (frequently hilly) roads. I am leaning toward 28 mm tires though would consider 25s, nothing skinnier and larger probably wont fit.

I would definitely consider used and would rather spend less than $500.

Thanks.


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## JSR (Feb 27, 2006)

I’d be surprised if you could get 28s to fit that bike. IMHO you should plan for 25s. 

In any case that’s sort of a separate question than which wheels to buy. I mean you won’t want to get any of the new 25mm outer dimension wheels, but anything around 21mm would be fine. For example, here is a Shimano WH-500 wheelset at an ok price and reasonable weight. https://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-WH-RS500-Road-Wheelset

If price is a major concern you’d probably be able find a set lower than those Shimanos pretty easily. There are many higher-performance wheels available at a higher price.


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## force10 (Dec 17, 2019)

Thanks for the response. 

I tried a 28 gatorskin I had lying around and it fit fine on the original Rolf Vectors. If that is is still not recommended, I agree it is a separate discussion but I would be iterested in hearing it.

I assumed I wouldnt be looking for 25mm OD wheels but wasnt certain. Price isnt *the *major concern. I have just sort of hoped that deals on rim brake wheels might be out there as more and more bikes are sold with disc brakes - maybe this is fanciful notion. Perhaps this would be more true on the used market?

In any event, I'd be looking for a wheelset "appropriate" to the bike that is suitable for the riding I plan for.

In case its not yet apparent, I am new to roadbiking and picked up this Lemond to see how I like it. Ive been riding a Salsa Vaya and it has gotten me fairly fit, but being able to go a bit faster would open up a bunch more group rides.


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## force10 (Dec 17, 2019)

*elsewhere on the internet...*

...these were suggested 

https://www.merlincycles.com/en-us/dt-swiss-pr-1600-spline-23-clincher-road-wheelset-700c-108393.htm

l


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