# EPS vs Mechanical Hood Shape



## peacefulloflove (May 1, 2014)

Hey Everyone,

I have Athena EPS on one of my bikes, and Record Mechanical 11 speed (2012) on the other. The EPS hoods feel thicker than the mechanical ones, and in fact I don't find them nearly as comfortable. I'm building up a new bike and was planning to use EPS, and I'm wondering if anyone knows how the 2014 EPS hood shape compares to mechanical hoods. One difference I've noticed is that the EPS hood is textured differently than the mechanical; the best way I can describe it is that the EPS hood has a kind of checkered pattern on it, whereas the mechanical has curved lines running through it.

Thank you!


Andy


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

peacefulloflove said:


> Hey Everyone,
> 
> I have Athena EPS on one of my bikes, and Record Mechanical 11 speed (2012) on the other. The EPS hoods feel thicker than the mechanical ones, and in fact I don't find them nearly as comfortable. I'm building up a new bike and was planning to use EPS, and I'm wondering if anyone knows how the 2014 EPS hood shape compares to mechanical hoods. One difference I've noticed is that the EPS hood is textured differently than the mechanical; the best way I can describe it is that the EPS hood has a kind of checkered pattern on it, whereas the mechanical has curved lines running through it.
> 
> ...


Now you have me concerned.  Great question and we won't know the difference between EPS and Mechanical Campy hoods until they are released in a couple of months. Below is a picture of new 2015 Campy Mechanical. I plan to ride new 2015 11s Campy mechanical in fact and there is a clear design change to the hood durometer versus current Campy mechanical as highlighted in preliminary press reviews. 

Based upon my personal testing I believe Campy's current hoods to be best in class and honestly why I ride Campy as I can live with Shimano or Sram shift quality. I was not aware that there was a discernible difference in feel of the hoods between current mechanical and EPS.

There maybe concern if Campy moved the shifter hood comfort closer to the current EPS which you don't like as much. Don't think we will be able to sort this out until reviews come out after the new stuff is released.

Does the new 2015 mechanical shifter hood rubber pattern shown below look similar to your current EPS?...or slightly different?


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## mikerp (Jul 24, 2011)

The only thing I found was:
The new hood shape of the Super Record levers has a dual-durometer rubber to add cushion, but it feels similar to previous Ergo levers.
This was on VeloNews


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## 1Butcher (Mar 15, 2011)

They feel thicker because they are thicker. 

I had a 2009 SR11 which I changed to a SR EPS. I like the EPS shifters better. I had a Chorus 11 and went to an Athena EPS and the Athena shifters are just as good as the SR EPS.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

And to add, if not answer my own question, is the new 2015 Mechanical Hood rubber configuration similar to current 2014 Record EPS which is different from 2014 Mechanical hoods?...and the answer is no. If you compare the two pictures...one of new 2015 mechanical above and current EPS Record hood below, the textured pattern aka hood rubber surface and related tooling are different. Advertising suggests that Campy did make a change to dual durometer hood material..from current single material hood rubbers for their new mechanical shifters at least and presume this technology transfers to new EPS as well.
So I am quite certain the feel of the new shifters should be different for 2015, hopefully in a positive way even though I felt that current production mechanical Campy shifters are best in class.

I will say further now having tested Shimano's flagship DA 9000 mechanical group for those interested...one of the things...there are many...that separate the ergonomics of Campy from Shimano is not only the shape of the shifter body and lever but the compliancy of the rubber that Campy currently uses. It isn't the hardness of the rubber 'material' used even though Campy uses a more flexible or elastic rubber on their hoods. It is the attention to detail of the rubber under the hood rubber surface. Campy 'egg crates' the rubber underside to create a lot of compliancy in the pressure areas. This is what gives Campy shifters their great feel in addition to their terrific shape. Shimano doesn't do this....only hard and thicker rubber right on top of a hard shifter body. In other words, no suspension for the hands. This completely alters the riding experience and makes Campy shifters much more comfortable based upon my testing. Comparing Campy EPS to mechanical, the difference in this egg crating may also account for the perceived difference in feel aka thickness between EPS and current mechanical Campy shifters...or it maybe the shifter body geometry is different but I would find the latter more surprising. In any event, expect Campy for 2015 to feel different and hopefully better. I look forward to riding it.

It is inexplicable to me why Shimano with their design talent would not follow suit and introduce more compliancy into their top of the line shifters like Campy has been doing since Ultrashift came out in 2009. Where is their competitive analysis? Defies understanding. Shimano falls down in other areas as well when it comes to ergonomics with sharp edges all the way around their shifters. Comparing Shimano and Campy, shifter feel is night and day in comfort and completely independent of shift method aka button versus brake lever shifting which I believe is more about preference. Why would anybody prefer rock hard hoods with sharp edges all the way around the shifter especially where the first knuckle resides? Other aspects of Shimano in terms of shift quality and brake performance are outstanding but the shifters feel like something out of the 1950's.


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## 1Butcher (Mar 15, 2011)

The EPS shifters are thicker and I'm not saying it's the rubber. The shifter body is thicker. Probably because of the electronic switches and just because. Heck, I do not know what they were thinking. I do like the thumb button better but since it does not have to move as far as the mechanical version, it can be made that low and with a much shorter throw.

All I can say, they [EPS version] are more comfortable for me. I cannot compare it to anything other than Campy since I have not touched a Shimano shifter in the last 35+ years.

As for the durometer of the rubber, I think most gloves cancel out most of that. The overall shape of the shifter housing is what I think that matters most. There is a huge difference riding with and without gloves. With the special durometer rubber they use, it might be more of an advantage of riders that choose not to wear gloves.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

1Butcher said:


> The EPS shifters are thicker and I'm not saying it's the rubber. The shifter body is thicker. Probably because of the electronic switches and just because. Heck, I do not know what they were thinking. I do like the thumb button better but since it does not have to move as far as the mechanical version, it can be made that low and with a much shorter throw.
> 
> All I can say, they [EPS version] are more comfortable for me. I cannot compare it to anything other than Campy since I have not touched a Shimano shifter in the last 35+ years.
> 
> As for the durometer of the rubber, I think most gloves cancel out most of that. The overall shape of the shifter housing is what I think that matters most. There is a huge difference riding with and without gloves. With the special durometer rubber they use, it might be more of an advantage of riders that choose not to wear gloves.


Many good points but to say that gloves cancel out the compliancy of Campy shifter hoods is ridiculous and completely defies the countless hours of development Campy put into their best in class hood rubber design to set themselves apart. Compliancy aka force/deflection as defined by spring rate is additive by physics. In fact the additive spring rate of dual durometer rubber is the root of why dual durometer rubber exists throughout industries with human interaction from beds, to steering wheel controls to coil suspension springs on cars. As to gloves, I don't wear gloves unless it is cold and it rarely is where I live. I used to wear gloves more in the mid west but no doubt gloves with some padding and gloves vary there as well from little to more padding will be more compliant when the surface they are resting upon has compliancy as well. Force/deflections are additive.
Btw, this discussion is no different that double wrapped tape on handlebars common on the pro peloton, especially in classic races. I would say more pros than not wear gloves most of the time and yet many prefer the added cushioning of an extra wrap of tape....many amateurs do as well.


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