# Diff between Shimano 6603 and 6600 triple shifters?



## Clevor

Anybody know the exact differences in these Ultegra shifters?


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## ukbloke

ST-6600 indicates a double shifter, while ST-6603 indicates a triple shifter. The left hand shifter for the FD differs between the two for the obvious reason. The right hand shifter for the RD is identical for both of them. People often use the term "Ultegra 6600 shifter" to refer to either of them.


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## Clevor

ukbloke said:


> ST-6600 indicates a double shifter, while ST-6603 indicates a triple shifter. The left hand shifter for the FD differs between the two for the obvious reason. The right hand shifter for the RD is identical for both of them. People often use the term "Ultegra 6600 shifter" to refer to either of them.


Thanks for the info. Is the 6603 the latest iteration of the Ultegra triple shifter? Doesn't it include the ability to route cables on either side of the shifter, a shorter reach (?), ergonomic redesign of the hoods; isn't it an actual improvement on the old DA triple setup?


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## ukbloke

Clevor said:


> Thanks for the info. Is the 6603 the latest iteration of the Ultegra triple shifter? Doesn't it include the ability to route cables on either side of the shifter, a shorter reach (?), ergonomic redesign of the hoods; isn't it an actual improvement on the old DA triple setup?


No, you will be wanting the ST-6703 shifter for those features! The cable routing with this is under the bar tape, and the shifters have been redesigned for better ergonomics. 
Note that "67xx" vs "66xx" denotes a newer revision of the Ultegra series, while "xx00" versus "xx03" denotes different components within a particular revision (in this case double versus triple).

The Ultegra ST-6603 is one step in "quality" down from Dura Ace ST-7803. The Ultegra ST-6703 is one step in "quality" down from Dura Ace ST-7903 (though I'm not sure that ST-7903 has been released as yet). You can find out more info at Shimano techdocs.


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## Clevor

ukbloke said:


> No, you will be wanting the ST-6703 shifter for those features! The cable routing with this is under the bar tape, and the shifters have been redesigned for better ergonomics.
> Note that "67xx" vs "66xx" denotes a newer revision of the Ultegra series, while "xx00" versus "xx03" denotes different components within a particular revision (in this case double versus triple).
> 
> The Ultegra ST-6603 is one step in "quality" down from Dura Ace ST-7803. The Ultegra ST-6703 is one step in "quality" down from Dura Ace ST-7903 (though I'm not sure that ST-7903 has been released as yet). You can find out more info at Shimano techdocs.



OK, thanks for the clarification!


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## Clevor

I have another question: will the Ultegra 6703 triple crank work with old 7803 triple shifters? The ST-6703 triple shifters are pretty expensive right now.


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## ukbloke

Clevor said:


> I have another question: will the Ultegra 6703 triple crank work with old 7803 triple shifters? The ST-6703 triple shifters are pretty expensive right now.


That will work fine. What FD will you use?


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## Clevor

ukbloke said:


> That will work fine. What FD will you use?


Probably the 7800 series front.

Actually cheapest price on the 6703 triple shifters is maybe $429 and for 7803 is $379 so maybe I might opt for the significant improvement in features of the 2010 Ultegra for the extra $50.

I hear the 6703 shifters work best with 6700 series brake calipers. Will they work OK with 7800 front and rear triple derailleurs?


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## ukbloke

Performance might work out slightly cheaper for the 6700 shifters - $499 minus 10% members discount minus 15% Veteran's Day discount and free ship (today only). The list price of $700 is just ridiculous.


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## ukbloke

Clevor said:


> Probably the 7800 series front.
> 
> Actually cheapest price on the 6703 triple shifters is maybe $429 and for 7803 is $379 so maybe I might opt for the significant improvement in features of the 2010 Ultegra for the extra $50.
> 
> I hear the 6703 shifters work best with 6700 series brake calipers. Will they work OK with 7800 front and rear triple derailleurs?


I do not know for sure. I suspect that they will work but at "sub-standard" level. I could not find a Shimano compatibility chart for 6700, but assuming that 6700 is fully compatible with 7900, and knowing that 7900 is not itself fully compatible with 7800/6600, I think this is a non-preferred combination.

If you are buying all this new I would match shifter, brakes and derailleurs - either all 7800/6600 or all 7900/6700. I think the other groupo stuff (cranks, chain, bottom bracket, cassette) should all be interchangeable amongst these groups. If you are trying to make some existing components work, then you might give it a try knowing that you can upgrade them later if it does not work out.

I've noticed that 6600/7800 is getting pretty hard to find from the usual on-line vendors, especially at a reasonable price.


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## Clevor

ukbloke said:


> I do not know for sure. I suspect that they will work but at "sub-standard" level. I could not find a Shimano compatibility chart for 6700, but assuming that 6700 is fully compatible with 7900, and knowing that 7900 is not itself fully compatible with 7800/6600, I think this is a non-preferred combination.
> 
> If you are buying all this new I would match shifter, brakes and derailleurs - either all 7800/6600 or all 7900/6700. I think the other groupo stuff (cranks, chain, bottom bracket, cassette) should all be interchangeable amongst these groups. If you are trying to make some existing components work, then you might give it a try knowing that you can upgrade them later if it does not work out.
> 
> I've noticed that 6600/7800 is getting pretty hard to find from the usual on-line vendors, especially at a reasonable price.


Ahh, no good. I already have a 7803 triple crank and 7800 double crank (never used). I did not know it's best to stick with all 7800 or 7900 components. Which means I need to stock up on whatever existing 7800 components are left.

So I need to get some 7803 triple shifters, as well as front and rear derailleurs. I do notice the active bidding on Ebay for 7800 components!

Fortunately I'm in Japan and 7800 stuff is still plentiful if can't get it on Ebay. I should be able to find a new 7800 rear GS derailleur, as well as 7800 brakes. These are hard to find new and boxed on Ebay.

Thanks for enlightening me just in the nick of time! My existing bikes have Campy Record double/triple and Ultegra double (I can use the latter parts for my 7800 double crank).


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## ukbloke

You can see the official Shimano compatibility chart here. I believe that there is more inter-operability than Shimano promises on this chart, but what is shown here is guaranteed to work and will work best. If you search this forum you can find instances where people have gotten other combinations to work to some degree.

My bike is almost all 7800, bought on close-out a year ago, and the shifting and braking performance is excellent. I think the advances in 7900 are on the minor side - a slight weight saving, shifter cables under the bar-tape, incrementally better shifting and breaking, and better hood ergonomics (though I have big hands anyway). For me going with the "older" top-of-the-line 7800 was a no-brainer.


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## Clevor

ukbloke said:


> You can see the official Shimano compatibility chart here. I believe that there is more inter-operability than Shimano promises on this chart, but what is shown here is guaranteed to work and will work best. If you search this forum you can find instances where people have gotten other combinations to work to some degree.
> 
> My bike is almost all 7800, bought on close-out a year ago, and the shifting and braking performance is excellent. I think the advances in 7900 are on the minor side - a slight weight saving, shifter cables under the bar-tape, incrementally better shifting and breaking, and better hood ergonomics (though I have big hands anyway). For me going with the "older" top-of-the-line 7800 was a no-brainer.


BTW, the braze-on 7803/6603 triple front derailleurs can be mounted on various frames via an adapter clamp, correct? I have several frames so I need a versatile front derailleur.

Well all those Campy fanboys are defensive for a reason: I got bikes with both setups (including Record), and the Shimano shifting setup is quicker, quieter, and for me, easier to adjust. Talk about clunky. And when you are talking triple setup, the gaps from ring-to-ring on the Campy are like the Grand Canyon, with all the multiple trims needed.


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## ukbloke

Clevor said:


> Ahh, no good. I already have a 7803 triple crank and 7800 double crank (never used). I did not know it's best to stick with all 7800 or 7900 components.


Reading your email again, since you have just the 7800/7803 cranks you will likely be OK (and I think I alluded to that before). The cranks should be one of the least likely of the items to have an incompatibility between 7800-series and 7900/6700. After all, the spacing between the chain-rings is going to be exactly the same, primarily because the chain width is the same. There might be some minor difference in ramping and there is some differences with the 7900 chain (now uni-directional) but not enough to break compatibility. So if you go with 7900/6700 shifters *and* derailleurs I think it will work fine. You could search around this site to see if you can find anyone else running that combination. You could also try asking over in the components/wrenching forum. You will likely get a dozen replies from people more knowledgeable than I. This Shimano sub-forum is a bit of a backwater.


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## ukbloke

Clevor said:


> BTW, the braze-on 7803/6603 triple front derailleurs can be mounted on various frames via an adapter clamp, correct?


Yes, I believe they sell braze-on clamps for all the most common seat tube sizes.


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## Clevor

ukbloke said:


> Reading your email again, since you have just the 7800/7803 cranks you will likely be OK (and I think I alluded to that before). The cranks should be one of the least likely of the items to have an incompatibility between 7800-series and 7900/6700. After all, the spacing between the chain-rings is going to be exactly the same, primarily because the chain width is the same. There might be some minor difference in ramping and there is some differences with the 7900 chain (now uni-directional) but not enough to break compatibility. So if you go with 7900/6700 shifters *and* derailleurs I think it will work fine. You could search around this site to see if you can find anyone else running that combination. You could also try asking over in the components/wrenching forum. You will likely get a dozen replies from people more knowledgeable than I. This Shimano sub-forum is a bit of a backwater.


I think you are right. It's the same with Campy. The 11-speed shifters and rear derailleur will work with an old triple front derailleur. I may wait couple years till prices drop on the new Ultegra and DuraAce components.

Another question: do you know if the 7803 triple shifters will work with a double crank setup??? Will it also work with the double rear derailleur? I'm thinking if I can get a good price on one, I could also use it to upgrade the Ultegra shifters on my double setup.


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## ukbloke

Clevor said:


> Another question: do you know if the 7803 triple shifters will work with a double crank setup??? Will it also work with the double rear derailleur? I'm thinking if I can get a good price on one, I could also use it to upgrade the Ultegra shifters on my double setup.


You can use a 7803 triple shifter to shift a double. The trick is to use the *lower* two positions on the shifter. The highest position (which corresponds to the big chain-ring on a true triple) is made unavailable by the setting for high limit of the FD. This stops you from over-shifting off the double big chain-ring. This set-up can work pretty well but needs more accurate settings of the limits and tension. If I was buying new stuff, I'm not sure that I would buy the triple shifter just because it was a bit cheaper than the double. If you want the future possibility of switching to triple I suppose this is a good argument for doing it (or if you happen to have a triple shifter that you want to re-purpose as a double without spending any money, which was my situation). It works best with a double FD. I've tried with a triple FD but could not get it to shift to my satisfaction.

The FD and left-hand shifter themselves don't care about what setup you have on the right-hand shifter and RD. However, the thing that comes into play is chain length and whether you have enough chain-wrap capacity in the RD to cope with the difference in links between the big-big and small-small extremes. If you want to run a triple chain-set then you will want a long cage RD. If you are running a double or compact with a standard-size cassette you can use short cage. If you have a compact and a very wide range cassette (eg. 11-28) you might need the middle (if they make one?) or large cage RD. You can search to find more information on this.


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