# Clyde on a Damocles



## John (Mar 8, 2004)

...or an Excaliber??

I weigh in at 215, approaching 50...and have been riding 4-5K for the past few years. The only races I enter are hillclimbs (not keen on going down in a pack at 25)....so I doa lot of long rides on mountain roads of varying quality.

I'm looking form a new frame to play with. I am coming from an older 853 steel frame that has been quite comfortable. Why do I need a new frame? I don't. But, I want one....

I am looking to keep I high level of comfort (for all those 6 hour rides) while gaining some of the benefits from a new tech carbon frame, such as lighter weight, stiffness and efficiency.

I've seen many posts that speak well of the ridie of the Damocles, and it being a bit more comfortable (with vertical compliance)....and the Excaliber being a bit stiffer. 

The only problem is that I see these posts coming mostly from folks that aren't carrying around my kind of weight

Any recommendations on which frame will best keep my (weight and age) comfort level high while improving the frames ability to efficiently trnasmit power?

Thanks....


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## HBPUNK (Mar 25, 2006)

I'm 205-215lbs ride an Excalibur and its plenty stiff, yet a comfortable ride. Ridleys are on the heavier end of the higher end road bikes which is one of the reasons I was interested in them, being a "Clyde"

I've spent time on a Damo and didnt see a reason for spending the extra dough on one

I ride 150-200miles wk and the Excal is my bike of choice 90% of the time.


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

Excaliburs at 1100 g are supposed to be the frame of choice for climbers and shorter rides (2 hrs or less) and Damocles at 1250g is the allrounder geared for longer rides so by the sound of it I would say have a look at LOOK 586 if you can stretch your budget a bit or the 585.


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## backinthesaddle (Nov 22, 2006)

toonraid said:


> Excaliburs at 1100 g are supposed to be the frame of choice for climbers and shorter rides (2 hrs or less) and Damocles at 1250g is the allrounder geared for longer rides so by the sound of it I would say have a look at LOOK 586 if you can stretch your budget a bit or the 585.


Who in the wide, wide World of Sports told you that? That's borderline the dumbest reason to choose a frame that I've heard. 

A) Why would you even begin to think that riding an Excalibur longer than 2 hours would be bad? Why would the Damo be better? The 150 grams? That's 5 ounces ...
I guess the Helium, at less than 1000 grams will spontaneously combust after 90 minutes or so... 

B) Neither bike is 'geared' for one type of ride or another. Once you get to this price point and level of frame, it's about budget and aesthetics. It's not like you are comparing a Roubaix and a Tarmac SL2 here...! Ridley's geos are the same for the two bikes. Fit will be the same. The ride of the two is different. Personally, I have found that my old Excalibur and, now, my new Helium, are/were both more comfy than my Damocles.

C) Again, you are spouting BS that you heard somewhere and you obviously have no real experience with either of the two framesets. Either get one of the bikes you talk about, or S T F U !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You don't know W T F you are talking about......:mad2:

D) You haven't a clue about the Look framesets either. The 586 and the 585 aren't just two completely different animals, they are four. The 585 has versions, all of them different when it come to carbon layup, stiffness and small design cues. Comparing the three is hinky because they are aimed at three different riders. Including the 586 in akin to putting an orange in a bushel of different apples.

Please just shut your hole..........


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

My god ... so much anger!

Let me see if I can add some fuel to your overflowing emotions ... since I don't bang others on the head with my bikes I don't usually break them and therefore have to pay for them rather than get them free on dubious warranty claims. So I really thought long and hard before parting with my hard earned cash ... but to satisfy your issues i will post a side by side group review of Excalibur v Damocles v Noah v 585 v 595 with side-by-side pictures on the same mountain route next month when the weather lightens up a bit - how about you do that with your 3 frames you have ridden? So to paraphrase ... put up or shut up.

When you want to point fingures at others you better get your facts right, contrary to your suggestions in previous posts Evans & co of team lotto fame do not use Heliums - they have a pool of bikes which include Noahs and in fact they mostly use the Noah and only use Heliums for uphill mountain stages that don't include a big drop at the same stage as it lacks the decent & sprinting capabilities of the Noah or as a standby for the Noah. Thats why the 16 lotto bikes stolen from Giro Provincia di Grosseto in Italy last weekend were Noahs and Heliums!

Now a few design lessons .... 

If you want to make a racing carbon frame lighter you have to use less layers of carbon, to achieve that without making the frame noddly you have to use a higher modulus carbon (or a higher percentage of) to make the laminate structure stronger.
Helium uses 30 - 40 - 50
Noah uses 30 - 40
Damocles uses 24 - 30
Excalibur uses 24 - 30

While both Damocles and Excalibur use the same types, the mix ratio is different as Excalibur uses a higher percentage of 30 ton Carbon than the Damocles which makes it a tad harsher but lighter - its also the reason they used a curved fork instead of a str8 fork (as is the case for Damocles) to offset some of the harshness.

Anyway both the excalibur and the Damocles are being facelifted for 09 and the new excalibur may well be out in Spring so I don't want to go on too much about it.

If you ride your frames instead of hitting people over the head with them you might be able to form a better opinion of their riding characteristics and who knows you might even come to same conclusions as competitive cyclist & others on this forum who see it differently than you.


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## backinthesaddle (Nov 22, 2006)

toonraid said:


> My god ... so much anger!
> 
> Let me see if I can add some fuel to your overflowing emotions ... since I don't bang others on the head with my bikes I don't usually break them and therefore have to pay for them rather than get them free on dubious warranty claims. So I really thought long and hard before parting with my hard earned cash ... but to satisfy your issues i will post a side by side group review of Excalibur v Damocles v Noah v 585 v 595 with side-by-side pictures on the same mountain route next month when the weather lightens up a bit - how about you do that with your 3 frames you have ridden? So to paraphrase ... put up or shut up.
> 
> ...


As usual, you say a lot, but still say nothing. I'm really glad that you can use Google and the Ridley tech sheets to illustrate what typres of carbon are used to produce each frame. It means nothing. Have you even thrown a leg over ANY of the bikes you are pontificating on? Doesn't sound like it..

I've posted pics of my 3 Ridleys...

Do you know why my frames break? Because I ride the sh*t out of them. They get ridden, raced and inspected regularly. Sh*t Happens...I guess that's why 1-2 older Excaliburs and Damocles frames are coming back to Sinclair per week for warranty. Don't believe me, call Monte Boyle and ask him yourself. Oh, and it's common knowledge that the bike are getting re-vamped for 09, but considering Sinclair JUST got it's containers of 08 frames, you likely won't see them for a long while...at leat in the States.

As for the comment about what the teams use...
A) You're dead wrong
B) If you still don't believe it, go to cyclingnews and check the pics of the TdU. The Silence/Lotto guys are on Heliums...and not climbing...gasp, the horror.

Unibet, when they were around, rode Excalibur frames exclusively...before going to Canyon framesets.

Seriously, stop reading stuff and listening to the douche who owns the shop you work at. Get a bike, ride the bike, learn something from the bike. You are the worst kind of salesperson at a shop, blathering on about high dollar stuff when you've never even seen it.

Enough of this folly...it's like arguing with a small, dull child.

I have to RIDE my Helium now...in the [email protected] 45 degrees...


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## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

There are 2 types of cyclists - those who ride with their heart and soul and those who ride with their arse ... one feels the bikes soul and has eye for details whereas the other .......... FARTS ... a lot!

I think you bought the wrong bike mate - The bike you thought you saw is not the Helium but a Noah with an excalibur fork that some like McEwen prefer instead of the str8 Noah fork that is standard - I do realize that all this is a bit confusing but in future look closely at Noah's ISP - that would be the thick piece of pole normally sticking under your brains - i mean arse, its a dead giveaway!

Now are you sure you didn't confuse the Excalibur and the Damocles too - that would explain everything!

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