# Rollers or Trainer for Sufferfest Vids



## MTBer1st (Apr 13, 2010)

I done several searches on the forums and I read all of the long "Trainer vs Rollers" threads. I essentially gathered a few points that consistently came up:

- rollers are harder to learn
- trainers are boring/rollers are less boring
- rollers are good for intervals/ trainers better for steady rides
- rollers arent good for hard intervals (no definition of "hard" though)
-cannot "get up and sprint" on a trainer

Since the time has changed, I cannot ride after class during the week. I bought a couple of Sufferfest vids and I watch my iPod while on the stationary bike at the campus gym. I love the videos. I hate the bikes because of the HUGE gel seat and lack of realistic hand positions. Therefore, I have been on a search for something to use with my road bike. I was pretty set on a trainer, but now Im having second thoughts. 

As you may know, the vids require a lot of "dropping the hammer" and Im worried that I cannot do that effectively on a trainer. Should I just abandon this whole proposition and stick with the stationary bike and use the money for bike parts/other outdoor gear?

Details:
-first trainer/rollers
-under a year on the road bike
- aluminum/105 group
- Not a racer, but I want to be stronger/better/more awesome


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

MTBer1st said:


> - rollers are harder to learn
> - trainers are boring/rollers are less boring
> - rollers are good for intervals/ trainers better for steady rides
> - rollers arent good for hard intervals (no definition of "hard" though)
> -cannot "get up and sprint" on a trainer


Rollers take a variable amount of time to learn. Some are good to go from the start, some might take a couple of weeks to get comfortable. Some just aren't patient or humble enough to learn. It took me a week.

Neither are that stimulating. 

I don't think rollers are great for intervals. If you're doing full out intervals, I'd rather be on a trainer where I don't have to worry about crashing after my legs seize up. Certain intervals like stomps aren't safe on rollers. Hard intervals? Pass. 

Trainers work for steady state and you can space out if you want, but I find that rollers are good for steady state and long rides since the seat post isn't in a fixed and rigid position. I find this much more comfortable in the long run. You have to be more alert and can't coast, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. 

Of course you can get up and sprint on trainers. As long as you're on a stable platform, trainers will allow this.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

MTBer1st said:


> As you may know, the vids require a lot of "dropping the hammer" and Im worried that I cannot do that effectively on a trainer.


Just to clear this up, "trainer" refers to a device that holds your bike up; "roller" is a device on which the bike stays upright because of the rider's balancing skills. So as spade2you said, you can definitely "drop the hammer" on a trainer.

I prefer rollers because they keep my sense of balance sharp. And because I don't do any structured training during the winter months, I don't need a trainer on which to do sprints or standing starts. But that's strictly a personal preference. You, for example, seem to be looking forward to some highly structured indoor training.

IMO, forget the stationary bike, meaning an exercise device that does not allow you to use your own bike for indoor training.

/w


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

If money is the issue you'd probably be better off with a stationary trainer. 

For most of us and this includes spade2you we use both rollers and trainers. I can use either type for just about any workout and that includes intervals. I have a resistance headwind unit that attaches to my kreitler 3" rollers that can in theory take you to 1000 watts not that it matters in my case, but I have never bottomed out on the highest gear looking for more resistance. 

Honestly the stationary trainer is ideal for multitasking. Like last night I used my Kurt Kinetic road machine while I was watching some education videos pertaining to work that demanded my full attention and yet allowed my to push myself without loosing concentration on my workout or the video.

Rollers for me allow a better workout as I can red zone a lot faster. You're not just using your legs like on a stationary trainer, you're using all those little balancing muscles and most importantly your using your brain. 30 minutes of focused training on rollers feels like a more beneficial workout than an hour on a trainer. 

And no you won't be doing too much standing up while on the rollers, but standing sprints are better left for out on the road.

One thing to keep in mind is the smaller the diameter of the roller drums the greater the resistance. I use 3" drums with a headwind unit to provide all the resistance I need. Spade2you uses 2.25" drums which don't need a resistance headwind to get the necessary resistance. Unfortunately Kreitler rollers are expensive, if you get the kind with aluminum endcaps, they'll cost $425 off ebay. 

As far as boring is concerned. Nothing is more boring than training indoors. In the end I have a lot of winter cycling cloths and different bikes that allow me to ride until it gets down to around zero and up to 4 inches of snow and ice. I'd much rather ride outdoors as the time flies by and of course there's no substitute for riding outdoors, if you only train indoors you'll lose fitness if you don't get out on the road and do the real thing.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Kreitlers are unfortunately a tad expensive, although I think the 2.25" rollers add a little "value" since you shouldn't require a resistance unit. Regardless, a good trainer and set of rollers will last a LONG time. The up front price is a little steep, but I've gotten my money's worth with my Fluid 2 and 2.25" Kreitlers. I can't imagine wearing out either in the next 5-10, not to jinx myself. 

Stationary bikes are fine n' dandy, but bulky. Local bike shops and friends have indoor trainer sessions for the company, but you can't exactly lug a stationary bike to these, at least not conveniently.


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## zakyma (Jan 25, 2010)

*emotion rollers*

Get the emotion rollers and you will change your mind. I had fluid trainner and changed go emotion rollers. You can do everything on it intervals standing and hands free.

Check insideride.com and check youtube videos. You will pay more but you get best of both world.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

zakyma said:


> Get the emotion rollers and you will change your mind. I had fluid trainner and changed go emotion rollers. You can do everything on it intervals standing and hands free.
> 
> Check insideride.com and check youtube videos. You will pay more but you get best of both world.


Given that I can get a nice trainer and a nice set of rollers for less, I'm sticking with a trainer and rollers. Sure, I've fallen on the rollers, but I have no problem using them for long endurance hours.


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## samh (May 5, 2004)

if you must ride indoors you can try the $1000 roller (think there are 2 brands) mentioned I have never tried or forget about them


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## MTBer1st (Apr 13, 2010)

wim said:


> Just to clear this up, "trainer" refers to a device that holds your bike up; "roller" is a device on which the bike stays upright because of the rider's balancing skills. So as spade2you said, you can definitely "drop the hammer" on a trainer.
> /w


What I was kind of referring to was not getting adequate resistance on a trainer for a short, hard effort. I understand that fluid trainers have a more realistic resistance curve, but that is not so true for mag trainers.

If I am headed up Alpe D'Huez, and Contador attacks, when I go after him, I want my legs to feel like I am really counter-attacking. It is hard to replicate climbing on the stationary bike, and Im wondering if the same is true for trainers/rollers.



heathb said:


> Nothing is more boring than training indoors. In the end I have a lot of winter cycling cloths and different bikes that allow me to ride until it gets down to around zero and up to 4 inches of snow and ice. I'd much rather ride outdoors as the time flies by and of course there's no substitute for riding outdoors, if you only train indoors you'll lose fitness if you don't get out on the road and do the real thing.


Im wondering if this is the route I should go. I have tights and thermal jerseys and all the like. I dont mind the cold. I plan on backpacking several nights this winter. I might just use the campus gym and do intervals and hill repeats on colder days. On warmer days, I can kick out a longer ride.

I would just hate to drop the $500 on something and not be totally satisfied with it. I bought the videos so I wouldnt get bored, but if a trainer/rollers are no better than a stationary bike, I think I should just save my money.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Neither of mine cost $500 by themselves. 

This isn't roadie snobbism speaking, but most gym bikes are kinda junky and often poorly maintained. Moreover, why train on a stationary bike if you have a nice and comfy roadie? 

Some mag trainers can provide enough resistance, but I find them noisy, especially the stronger you get. If you're looking at hitting some heavy resistance, the Cycleops Fluid 2 can offer you more than you'd be likely to outgrow and be whisper quiet. 

The value will ONLY be in how much you use it or them.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

MTBer1st said:


> What I was kind of referring to was not getting adequate resistance on a trainer for a short, hard effort.


I'v got no experience with that. I use an ancient set of rollers with no significant resistance other than aging bearings. I was just trying to propose a definition of terms.

I do know that discussing "realistic resistance simulation" of trainers, stationary bikes or rollers usually opens up a can of worms, with lots of cited claims and counterclaims coming from the manufacturers or resellers of these torture devices themselves.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

wim said:


> Don't know about that. I use an ancient set of rollers with no significant resistance other than aging bearings. I was just trying to propose a definition of terms.
> 
> I do know that discussing "realistic resistance simulation" of trainers, stationary bikes or rollers usually opens up a can of worms, with lots of cited claims and counterclaims coming from the manufacturers or resellers of these *torture devices *themselves.


lol. Pretty much sums it up, wim! :thumbsup: 

OP: If you're looking for anything remotely resembling 'realistic', I suggest saving your money, donning some warm clothing and heading for the great outdoors. OTOH, if you're goal is to hone your bike handling skills _indoors_, rollers are the preferred route. If you want to gain fitness, while certain types of rollers will accomplish that (and has already been covered), IMO it would be cheaper and just as productive to invest in a trainer. Despite what posters offer re: mag trainers and resistance, I can reach my max heart rate in under a minute on my 20 year old model - and that's not even at the hardest resistance setting. I've been doing this for 20+ years, so maybe I'm just old and weak.  

None of these choices are pleasant. IMO/E their only value is that they allow us to maintain a level of fitness till the weather improves and we can resume what we all really like to do - ride outdoors.


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## MTBer1st (Apr 13, 2010)

I just wanted to apologize and say that I didnt intend for this thread to develop into a "Trainers/Rollers are better than Rollers/Trainers" thread. I searched and read and still have a few questions.

Sorry all.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

MTBer1st said:


> I just wanted to apologize and say that I didnt intend for this thread to develop into a "Trainers/Rollers are better than Rollers/Trainers" thread. I searched and read and still have a few questions.
> 
> Sorry all.


No need to apologize: While some trainer-roller threads on RBR have developed into a trainer vs. roller slugfest, this one really hasn't. So far, people have just politely expressed personal preferences. Ask away.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

To answer the question, which I would have done if I weren't distracted by shiny objects so easily.....if you _had_ to get one, perhaps a trainer would be a little more useful overall and really there's nothing to learn like rollers. Basically shifting to achieve a goal cadence/output is the only "trick". They wear on the tires, but not as bad as RBR might claim. As long as they're inflated and have the correct amount of contact with the wheel, it's no biggie. Due to work hours, I had to ride my trainer a lot this year and my tires are still going strong. If you get the $ or space, a nice set of rollers will compliment your trainer nicely. 

The important thing is to have a nice fan to prevent you from overheating. 

Outdoor riding is alright, depending on where you live. Having been in negative and white out conditions the last couple of days, I'd rather not mess with it. I have problems keeping the right level of warmth, although nothing like a 30+mph northern wind to freeze ya to the bone and stop you in place. Cold intolerance aside, I benefit from indoor riding because I'm able to have 100% controled and structured riding.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Clearing things up*



MTBer1st said:


> - rollers are harder to learn
> - trainers are boring/rollers are less boring
> - rollers are good for intervals/ trainers better for steady rides
> - rollers arent good for hard intervals (no definition of "hard" though)
> -cannot "get up and sprint" on a trainer


rollers are harder to learn - yes

trainers are boring/rollers are less boring - yes or at least rollers keep you on your toes.

rollers are good for intervals/ trainers better for steady rides - most would say just the opposite, if you mean out of the saddle intervals. If you mean endurance intervals then both are equal.

rollers arent good for hard intervals (no definition of "hard" though) - again, out of the saddle intervals are hard to do on the rollers, easy to do on a trainer

cannot "get up and sprint" on a trainer - again, just the opposite. You can easily stand on the trainer, but not on the rollers.


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## zakyma (Jan 25, 2010)

*e-motion Rollers*



spade2you said:


> Given that I can get a nice trainer and a nice set of rollers for less, I'm sticking with a trainer and rollers. Sure, I've fallen on the rollers, but I have no problem using them for long endurance hours.



These rollers have safety bumpers that will help you not to fall. They have 3 level of resistance, you can standup like climbing and ride free hands. It will help maitain your core strength and do intervals on them like a trainner. The rollers are good on your tires so no need to change the tires frequently.

The only downside is the price 850 USD, but you will feel like riding outside.

Give them a try if you can before you buy.

www.insideride.com


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

If you plan to ride in a pack someday, please for the love of god buy a set of rollers. The guys that train on stationary trainers exclusively can be a little dodgy with holding their line. Being able to hold a straight line while going full out on the rollers is sort of like what the jump rope is to a boxer, they both train you to keep your form and accuracy even when you're completely exhausted.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

heathb said:


> If you plan to ride in a pack someday, please for the love of god buy a set of rollers. The guys that train on stationary trainers exclusively can be a little dodgy with holding their line. Being able to hold a straight line while going full out on the rollers is sort of like what the jump rope is to a boxer, they both train you to keep your form and accuracy even when you're completely exhausted.


IMO this is _way_ overstating a positive aspect of rollers. Using a trainer hardly dictates that a rider won't be capable of 'holding their line' or 'keep their form when completely exhausted'. And while it's true that they help noobs with balance, since cyclists usually use rollers/ trainers to _suppliment_, there are always the outdoor rides to develop bike handling skills, and that's the place to do it.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

zakyma said:


> These rollers have safety bumpers that will help you not to fall. They have 3 level of resistance, you can standup like climbing and ride free hands. It will help maitain your core strength and do intervals on them like a trainner. The rollers are good on your tires so no need to change the tires frequently.
> 
> The only downside is the price 850 USD, but you will feel like riding outside.
> 
> ...


No need. Figured mine out about a week after I got them.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

PJ352 said:


> IMO this is _way_ overstating a positive aspect of rollers. Using a trainer hardly dictates that a rider won't be capable of 'holding their line' or 'keep their form when completely exhausted'. And while it's true that they help noobs with balance, since cyclists usually use rollers/ trainers to _suppliment_, there are always the outdoor rides to develop bike handling skills, and that's the place to do it.


I think there's _some_ merit to the rollers and handling debate given that rollers are basically exaggerated handling. My Cat 4 compatriots don't use rollers and crash a lot. Hardly scientific, but just an observation.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

spade2you said:


> I think there's _some_ merit to the rollers and handling debate given that rollers are basically exaggerated handling. My Cat 4 compatriots don't use rollers and crash a lot. Hardly scientific, but just an observation.


I completely agree. That's why I said _this is way overstating a *positive aspect *of rollers_, acknowledging the fact that rollers are beneficial in developing better balance - and even smoothing the pedal stroke (although trainers can also accomplish the latter). I was merely pointing out that IMO heathb was going a little overboard in the examples I cited.

I also agree that your observation is hardly scientific, but don't doubt your experiences.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

I have rollers (Cyclops aluminum), a fluid trainer (KK R&R), and now a wind trainer (LeMond Revolution). Out of the three, the LeMond is most definitely getting the most use.

The rollers I use for short, 15-20 minute sessions to clean up my pedalling and quiet my upper body. Great workout, but it takes too much concentration for me to do intervals or any sort of extended riding above a recovery rate. I kinda suck that way.

The fluid trainer is quiet, but it has that "riding through mud" feel of all fluid trainers, which gets old after a while. I can never lose myself in a riding video, even for a second, because it's always plainly obvious to me that I'm on a trainer. The movement feature is nice for standing intervals, but mine is an older model without lockout and it has the standard "R&R list" to one side that gets old. It's propped up on a couple wood blocks to straighten it out. This trainer is likely going on Craigslist soon.

The LeMond is noisy. However, it's wind noise that isn't a irritating frequency, so it doesn't bother people outside of the room. It's more of a loud white noise generator that masks most of the other sounds from my workout (like farts). This does mean I turn up the TV louder so I can hear it. The ride quality is much better than any of my other trainers, and once in a while I can fool myself for a second that I'm actually riding on the road. The illusion doesn't last, but it's there. It was not cheap at all, but then again the KK R&R wasn't cheap either. When the R&R sells, I'll likely get the LeMond computer for the speed/cadence/power features, since my current bike computer doesn't work with it (no rear wheel).

That said, I'd rather be outside. Yesterday it was -6, so the reality is that to get a good, structured workout I need to be on the trainer. I can handle the cold, but I try not to work up a sweat too much and have to keep my heart rate regulated, which precludes a lot of intervals or higher intensity work. Outside rides are pretty much recovery and endurance rides, which even then are hard to maintain with the changing road conditions. Sometimes, you have to hit the trainer and then go ski...


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## dysfunction (Apr 2, 2010)

Out of curiosity, which flywheel do you have on the R&R?


Personally, I think the two (ideally) compliment each other. Right now I have a pretty lousy mag trainer, but it works, and riding outside won't be a possibility at all for a while, so I'm happy it's around (well, will be happy at least)


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## heathb (Nov 1, 2008)

Heavier flywheels aren't so hot for interval training if you ask me. Once you get the large weight moving it seems to remove some of the effort.


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