# LBS Owners Who Try to Take Advantage of Women Shoppers



## il sogno

I went to a bike shop the other day, shopping for a mountain bike. I told the sales clerk that I want a lightweight hard tail and that my budget was $4000. I told him that I have a year 1999 Schwinn Homegrown hard tail that weighs in at 22 lbs. and that I’d like to get something in that weight range, if possible. For that reason, I’d like to see if there are carbon bikes in that price range. He looked up their stock online (mainly Specialized) and told me that the least expensive carbon hard tail is $5000. Okay. 

I know that there is an aluminum Spesh for $2000. I ask if I got the aluminum Spesh, would they let me swap out the aluminum wheels for carbon wheels. He gets the shop owner over to answer the question. The shop owner says that I have to buy the bike and then buy the wheels separately. 

Me: so I’d have two sets of wheels? 

Him: yes. And you SHOULD have two sets of wheels. But what you should really do is buy that $5000 hard tail on the computer screen. 

Me: I don’t wanna spend that much money. Plus it doesn’t have carbon rims and if it came down to it, I would prefer to have lighter wheels than a lighter frame. But if I were to buy that $5000 bike, would I be able to swap out the wheels for carbon wheels and just pay the difference?

Him: We don’t do that. You’ll have to buy the bike as it is, then buy the extra set of wheels. And you should have the lighter frame. It’s better than lighter wheels. 

Me (giving him a sharp look): Why? Why is it better to have a carbon frame over lighter wheels? 

Him (a little uncomfortable): cause the carbon frame is stiffer than the aluminum frame. 

I’m a woman. For me, frame flex is not an issue with aluminum frames. I give him a look. Everyone knows that lighter wheels are the best place to put money into when it comes to bicycles. 

I tell him: Well, I like light wheels. 

I start to leave. Shop owner starts to back pedal and tells me that they would work out a deal if I wanted to swap out components. They can make whatever I want happen, etc…

I leave. It is clear to me that because I was a woman shopping for a bike on my own, the shop owner thought he could convince me to buy a bike way above my budget and then get me to buy two sets of wheels along with that bike. I was pretty angry with that guy. If I buy a mountain bike, it will NOT be from his shop.


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## wgscott

$5K could get you a nice Santa Cruz carbon mtn bike.

For about $6K I got a custom road bike with excellent wheels and only the components I wanted and that exactly fit.

$5K for an off-the-rack hard tail is a bit much. I'm not sure if this is due to sexism or pure greed, but the sales person is incompetent.


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## il sogno

wgscott said:


> $5K could get you a nice Santa Cruz carbon mtn bike.
> 
> For about $6K I got a custom road bike with excellent wheels and only the components I wanted and that exactly fit.
> 
> $5K for an off-the-rack hard tail is a bit much. I'm not sure if this is due to sexism or pure greed, but the sales person is incompetent.


IMO it was pure greed with a healthy dash of sexism.


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## Randy99CL

il sogno said:


> IMO it was pure greed with a healthy dash of sexism.


Yep. I've been stunned by stories my G/Fs have told me. Stupid sexist men think that if it's mechanical or electrical a woman can't possibly understand it.

But it's not always sexist and doesn't only happen to women. 
I usually know more about an item I'm looking at than the clerk at the store selling it. It can take a few minutes of conversation for them to shut up, stop trying to control me and help me get what I want.

Edit: I wouldn't go back to that shop either, but next time tell them the things you were thinking and didn't say. Once they realize you are experienced and know what you want they should respect you.


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## Mike T.

il sogno said:


> ....because I was a woman shopping for a bike on my own, the shop owner thought he could convince me to buy a bike way above my budget and then get me to buy two sets of wheels along with that bike.


Why does this have to be a gender issue?


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## ibericb

Not defending the shop owner, or his poor response to you at all. But just so you know, I regularly deal with a very large LBS group that carries both Trek and Specialized, side-by-side. They maintain a very sizeable inventory of all the bikes produced by both, and they sell at full retail other tan special sales. As a store policy the don't swap parts on new bikes at exchange prices unless the part that's being replaced is a normal stocked SKU. It's a business decision, uniformly applied to all customers, no gender bias, to control their inventory. In that store you probably would have gotten the same response as you did on the wheel swap ( the store I deal with doesn't normally stock OEM replacement wheels). If you wanted different wheels, that would most likely be a separate purchase, and what to do with the OEM wheelset would be your issue, not the stores. But, they would have worked with you to find a bike that suited you and met your budget constraints, if that was realistically achievable, and they wouldn't have given you BS about carbon vs. Al, and needing two sets of wheels. 

The good news is that there are a lot of shops out there. Find one that suits you, and deal with them.


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## jfaas

Mike T. said:


> Why does this have to be a gender issue?


I also don't see the gender issue. Many people would like to swap wheels out for nicer ones at the point of sale. If the shop owner did this, he would have a pile of OE wheels that nobody wanted. 

If I was rolling on carbon wheels off road, I would also want to have back up aluminum wheels in case I cracked the carbon somehow. 

For a 22 lb bike, it will be hard to get down to $2000. Especially when you think about how the trend has been towards big jumps and more "extreme" trail riding. Your current steed probably has a ~3 lb fork and ~3.5 lb frame to make 22 lbs. Price those out with modern parts and you are probably near or past $2000 already.


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## Mike T.

jfaas said:


> I also don't see the gender issue. Many people would like to swap wheels out for nicer ones at the point of sale. If the shop owner did this, he would have a pile of OE wheels that nobody wanted.
> If I was rolling on carbon wheels off road, I would also want to have back up aluminum wheels in case I cracked the carbon somehow.
> For a 22 lb bike, it will be hard to get down to $2000. Especially when you think about how the trend has been towards big jumps and more "extreme" trail riding. Your current steed probably has a ~3 lb fork and ~3.5 lb frame to make 22 lbs. Price those out with modern parts and you are probably near or past $2000 already.


It's a shop policy issue. The choices are -

1. Go with it. As you say, a spare set of wheels is sometimes handy. The LBS is not going to lose out on trading wheels so maybe selling the original wheels privately makes better financial sense.
2. Try to change the LBS person's mind. Then read my second sentence in point 1.
3. Go to another store. Get the deal you want and again read my second sentence in point 1.

What's not appropriate is to whine about "Oh poor me I'm a female; I get shafted because of this".


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## Jay Strongbow

I'm pretty sure any man who's been to a bike shop or two shopping could tell a similar story.
Do you seriously think being up-sold is unique to females?


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## wgscott

I'm speculating here, but I think it was the dismissive part where she said wheel weight is more important than frame weight (which, from the point of view of basic Newtonian physics, is absolutely right). She obviously knows this better than the sales-person, but is dismissed. It is hard to know if the dismissal is informed by sexism (the undercurrent being women don't understand physics or some such thing), or just simply completely uninformed. You would have to do some sort of control test.


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## Oxtox

not sure about the degree of sexism involved in this instance.

seems to be just a typical case of shop staff blowing a sale by not being amenable to working with a customer.

someone comes in with a $4K budget, you'd think that would open up some lines of negotiation for swapping parts to move some inventory.

the OP should consider just building something from a frame up and avoid the aggravation of the LBS retail sales experience.


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## mimason

I don't see the sexist thing either but I'm not trying to pile on here and I wasn't there. I get killer deals from 2 different shops and the wheel request is something that they have denied my request on as well. Its situational but OEM wheels are typically **** and they don't want them. A rare occasion if the shop rents bikes in volume and they can replace their own stuff etc.

One mistake you made IMO is that you went in telling them your actual budget. To get the best pricing I typically hold the #s close to my chest. I say that I'm purchasing a bike and I am looking at different brands and test riding them etc. I get a shop to earn my business.

Also, not to get into semantics but MY order of importance is frame, wheels and components. Maybe that's what the shop owner was thinking too. I understand there are some times when wheels would be the tipping point but there is no bike that comes with the wheels that I want.


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## il sogno

ibericb said:


> Not defending the shop owner, or his poor response to you at all. But just so you know, I regularly deal with a very large LBS group that carries both Trek and Specialized, side-by-side. They maintain a very sizeable inventory of all the bikes produced by both, and they sell at full retail other tan special sales. As a store policy the don't swap parts on new bikes at exchange prices unless the part that's being replaced is a normal stocked SKU. It's a business decision, uniformly applied to all customers, no gender bias, to control their inventory. In that store you probably would have gotten the same response as you did on the wheel swap ( the store I deal with doesn't normally stock OEM replacement wheels). If you wanted different wheels, that would most likely be a separate purchase, and what to do with the OEM wheelset would be your issue, not the stores. But, they would have worked with you to find a bike that suited you and met your budget constraints, if that was realistically achievable, and they wouldn't have given you BS about carbon vs. Al, and needing two sets of wheels.
> 
> The good news is that there are a lot of shops out there. Find one that suits you, and deal with them.


There's another shop in town, about 8 miles from my house. They are willing to swap out wheels to make the deal.


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## il sogno

wgscott said:


> I'm speculating here, but I think it was the dismissive part where she said wheel weight is more important than frame weight (which, from the point of view of basic Newtonian physics, is absolutely right). She obviously knows this better than the sales-person, but is dismissed. It is hard to know if the dismissal is informed by sexism (the undercurrent being women don't understand physics or some such thing), or just simply completely uninformed. You would have to do some sort of control test.


The salesman and the shop owner both know this. The owner thought he could get me to buy two sets of wheels. Maybe cause I'm a woman.


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## il sogno

jfaas said:


> I also don't see the gender issue. Many people would like to swap wheels out for nicer ones at the point of sale. If the shop owner did this, he would have a pile of OE wheels that nobody wanted.
> 
> If I was rolling on carbon wheels off road, I would also want to have back up aluminum wheels in case I cracked the carbon somehow.
> 
> For a 22 lb bike, it will be hard to get down to $2000. Especially when you think about how the trend has been towards big jumps and more "extreme" trail riding. Your current steed probably has a ~3 lb fork and ~3.5 lb frame to make 22 lbs. Price those out with modern parts and you are probably near or past $2000 already.


My Homegrown is from 1999. It has 26" wheels. The reason I'm shopping for a new mtn bike is to get 27.5 or 29" wheels.


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## il sogno

In re: sexism, it's gotten to the point where I cannot have my husband with me while shopping for a bike. He has gray hair and when he is in the shop with me, I cannot get service from any of the shop personnel. 

We have been in situations where the shop owner/clerk is schmoozing him like crazy, showing him Colnagos and Parlees. He tells them that he is not shopping for a bike and that I, his wife is the one shopping for a bike. They glance at me, exchange pleasantries, then go right back to schmoozing my husband.


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## jfaas

il sogno said:


> My Homegrown is from 1999. It has 26" wheels. The reason I'm shopping for a new mtn bike is to get 27.5 or 29" wheels.


My Klein is from 1999 as well and I have looked for something similar. It is very difficult to find a lightweight hardtail with modern wheel size and disc brakes.


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## Mike T.

il sogno said:


> There's another shop in town, about 8 miles from my house. They are willing to swap out wheels to make the deal.


They're just humoring you 'coz you're a woman. They don't want a crying hissy-fit in the store.


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## wgscott

il sogno said:


> In re: sexism, it's gotten to the point where I cannot have my husband with me while shopping for a bike. He has gray hair and when he is in the shop with me, I cannot get service from any of the shop personnel.
> 
> We have been in situations where the shop owner/clerk is schmoozing him like crazy, showing him Colnagos and Parlees. He tells them that he is not shopping for a bike and that I, his wife is the one shopping for a bike. They glance at me, exchange pleasantries, then go right back to schmoozing my husband.


What part of Alabama do you live in?


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## il sogno

wgscott said:


> what part of alabama do you live in?


lol.


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## obed

I go with my wife to our chosen lbs here in Houston.... we both have gray hair (well, mine is actually more white than gray, not that it matters) when we are shopping for her, she has a way of letting them know it is her they have to make happy....watching her deal with sales folks always makes me smile, I love that woman.


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## jfaas

il sogno said:


> There's another shop in town, about 8 miles from my house. They are willing to swap out wheels to make the deal.


Sounds like your shop and your husband's shop are not the same shop.


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## SauronHimself

I see this as yet another case of a LBS employee with his head up his ass, and we've all experienced those. You're better off going to the other shop or buying online.


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## Father Guzzi Obrian

I have found that dealing with my two primary types of bikes, Specialized and Trek, the specific dealer makes 90% of the difference. I have purchased 4 Specialized from Rock and Road Cyclery in So Cal, and 2 Treks from Jax Bicycles (both chains in So Cal). When I had issues with a spesh bike, they hopped on it, fixed it immediately and if needed went to bat for warranty. The Trek dealer does the usual good service, but when something cant be addressed in multiple visits, they say that is the way the bike is. I need them to push a warranty claim, and I am sure they will, but if I did not push this, I would be expected to keep a new bike with a permanent problem. I know if I had a different Specialized dealer, it would likely be similar to Trek, but my point is, the LBS you do biz with is one of the most important decisions you can make when buying a bike... YMMV


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## karenashg

Mike T. said:


> Why does this have to be a gender issue?


Experience. Lots of experience. One of the skills most women learn is detecting when they're getting talked down to and dismissed in a way that men around them aren't. And we get loads of practice at detecting those occurrences. And then we get practice in defending ourselves against men who don't believe us.


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## love4himies

il Sogno:

I feel your pain. There is one that's not too far from me that tried to tell me that they could fit any bike to me (I'm 5'3) and I was looking at $3K road bikes. I just looked at the owner and thought seriously, would you tell a 6 foot male that too? Glad you found a better bike store.



Mike T. said:


> They're just humoring you 'coz you're a woman. They don't want a crying hissy-fit in the store.


I'm good with that if that means I get what I want.


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## love4himies

karenashg said:


> Experience. Lots of experience. One of the skills most women learn is detecting when they're getting talked down to and dismissed in a way that men around them aren't. And we get loads of practice at detecting those occurrences. And then we get practice in defending ourselves against men who don't believe us.


Bingo. I know a lot about construction, but I can guarantee you that if my hubby was beside me I am ignored and they focus on him.


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## BelgianHammer

The entrenched mind of the male specie, who claims he can learn and evolve, is very stubborn on this issue----men just cannot help acting like condescending jacka##es when it comes to women. Responses at the beginning of this thread illustrate this. The tendency of the male mind to look past the condescension a woman obviously felt (as you did in that place of business), thereby trying to marginalize it, and even attempting to explain it away with rational thought, well, that is classic simian recursive male idiocy. Having owned businesses over the decades, I've seen this firsthand, in fact have been guilty of it early on. But if you hire enough women, you learn, and learn fast. 

il Sogno, if that shop owner was that much of an brick where he couldn't read and/or realize how he was making you feel as he spoke to you----which would be obvious to any person who didn't have an ape brain still in their head------then just walk out and never go back there. Hang in there, you'll find a good shop.


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## bayAreaDude

Sounds similar to every trip I've made to a LBS and spoke to someone who worked there. Stopped going a long time ago.


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## QuiQuaeQuod

When you see that stuff, walking out is the best thing to do. Give your business to shops that treat you with respect.

I would suggest at your price point, and with your experience, going frame + parts might give you a great result. Just something to think about, especially for a small frame.

As for people who think sexism has nothing to do with this, I suggest you listen when women talk about their experiences. 

It is not always what is done, but how. Tone of voice, interruptions, etc. can all shape the meaning of what is going on. For example, men tend to interrupt women at the same rate as adults interrupt children, men tend to slow down when talking to women, as adults do with children. Think about that for a minute, if you are a guy and people started treating you like a child. Would you notice? Would it bother you? Now imagine it happened every day of your life. Think you would know it when you see it?

For shop examples, trying to upsell while talking down to a woman is common, she does not KNOW, so the man has to EXPLAIN. For men, they are upsold differently, in that competence is assumed even if unwarranted. This is often done by throwing tech terms around and NOT explaining them, an implicit assumption of competence.

I will close with this: questioning the OP's judgment about what she experienced, that maybe being a woman had NOTHING to do with what she experienced directly and YOU DID NOT EVEN WITNESS, is questing her competence. 

Me? I figure anyone who has been around a while, and is an experienced rider with a lot of experience in bike shops over the years, can figure out when she is being treated in a biased way. And il sogno, well, she seems a reliable witness to me, from my years of reading her posts. So I'll just go with "She knows what she experienced" and leave it at that.


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## il sogno

Thanks, QQQ.

To flesh out the story about shop people schmoozing my husband, one of those shops is actually owned by a woman. You read it right, a woman. In that instance, we were at that shop because they have a bunch of nice bikes and They are about 14 miles from our house. I wanted to check out the Time frames. The salesman kept steering me towards the heavier lower end Time frame. I wanted the nice light one. The woman shop owner was there but she was schmoozing with a guy ringing up the gels he was buying.

I wound up buying my Colnago C59 with Campy Record 11 at a shop that I go to semi regularly (because it's about 20 miles from our house). When we walked in, the shop owner recognized me and greeted me. I told him I wanted to buy a bike. He let me test ride his personal bikes (a BMC and a Time) as well as a Colnago in the shop. I told him I wanted the C59 with Campy Record. He told me that if I had some flexibility in my budget, he would cut me a deal on Super Record 11. He worked the numbers and offered me the Super Record 11 grouppo for about $110 more.

I took the deal. 

View attachment 305717


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## Camilo

First, I want your Colnago! What a beauty.

Second, I am in no way doubting your original impression of your unsatisfactory interaction with the bike shop in the original post. I'm a husband and father of very strong women who have schooled me on some things that they experience that go completely under my radar. I know that I just don't get it, and I've learned to implicitly trust their judgements on that stuff.

And not to minimize your experience at all, I would say that most of the bike shops I deal with, especially the chain-ish ones (Trek shops and Specialized shops for example) are often staffed with marginally expert sales people and, yes, even owners. They may or may not know as much as me, but always try to bulls... me with urban legends, and marketing crap. That doesn't have anything to do with their sexist idiocy, but they also exhibit non-sexist idiocy.

I'm glad you got the right bike and it looks like you have good taste!


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## love4himies

OMG, that's my bike, well the bike I've been eyeing at my LBS for a year. It's been sold so I missed out, but it was so sweet I would drool over it every time it went in.


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## Opus51569

Dayum, that is a nice looking bike! I'm sorry you had to go through such ridiculousness, but I'm glad to see it worked out. Enjoy that new ride.

Find a few poseurs on the road. Give 'em an LA "look", then drop them like third-period French. You'll feel better about the sexist pigs out there.


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## aureliajulia

In 2012, I decided I needed a new road bike. There is only one shop in my small town, so I drove to Savannah, GA, which has several. Went to a shop that I'd been to before that seemed knowledgable. They sold Pinarello, Orbea, and Specialized. 

I talked to someone I hadn't spoken with before, who turned out to be the owner. Explained  that my current bike was carbon with 105 drivetrain, and Ultegra shifters. Said wasn't sure what I wanted, but it needed to be at least as good as that, preferably better. Budget depended on the bike. (Read, flexible, around 4 grand. Right?). 

He instructed one of his guys to get the Pinarello Quattro from the window display. (It was actually a Pinarello Due, which was a step down in all areas of the bike, frame set, wheels, drivetrain). I assume he misspoke. 

I tested it, it seemed like a nice bike, but it reminded my of my current ride, a Cannondale Synapse. I wanted something different. Really, he had the bars up too much, and the saddle too low. But I loved the way the bike cornered. I tested several other bikes, too. He said to go home and check out the Pina online and read about it, etc. (duh, but at least he wasn't rushing me). 

Came back a week later after reading up on the Pina. Was still a little hesitant. Another woman was just bringing the bike back from her test ride on that same bike, btw, and I went for another ride. (I'm 5'7", she was 5'6"). The bike was a men's 50, with a TT of about 525. The shop owner informed me that he had just sold the bike to the other woman (other woman, hah!), but she'd put it on layaway, so I could try it again. This time, he tried several different configurations, and finally put the bars quite low, and the saddle quite high (the right height for someone with a 33.3 inch pbm). He was shocked. It was very unusual for a woman to need saddle to bar drop. The difference made the bike feel completely different. I decided I wanted one. But I was a little confused. The price was lower than the Quattros I'd seen online, and it didn't look quite right. 

He told me not to worry, that I could buy handmade wheels to go with the bike. The ones he had on his Orbea were $1100.00 handmade wheels suitable for up to a 200 lb rider. (I'm 150 lbs). I told him 'no.' Unequivocally. He spent some more time trying to talk me into it. I said no, again. He said I could get them next year. Again. No. Again--he didn't listen. Then he said I needed to buy carbon bars for the bike. I told him no. He said I needed him. On and on. I began to be afraid the guy was going to nickel and dime me on parts, and I'd have to be very careful. 

He said he'd call me as soon as he got a price from Gita (US Pinarello distributer). This was July, and the Pinas were on sale (I knew this from being online, he didn't tell me that). 


Several days later, he called, and said: guess what?! I got the Due Ultegra for $2750.00!!!

"What? I thought it was the Quattro??" 

We went back and forth, and I told him the Quattro appeared much better, and I wanted that one. He said he had a Quattro in stock, and maybe he could make that one work for me (it was a size 46.5 'easy fit' with a high head tube, the one I tested was size 50 unisex with lower HT). He got annoyed. Said he'd get back to me, and hung up. 

I called back FIVE times, trying to order a Quattro in size 50 and left messages with his associates. He never returned my call.

I started trying to find a new bike shop. Easier said than done. The closest Pinarello shop was over 3 hours away, in Columbia SC. (I hate Columbia. Yuck). I located one in Greenville SC, 5 hours from my home. (Actually, found one in Charlotte NC first, but that fell through when they lost their Pina contract, so, another several weeks wasted). 

The shop in Greenville advised me to come in for a sizing before ordering the bike. I agreed, so made a special trip up there to get sized, and they put me on a 51.5 vice the 50. So now a TT of 535 and 130 ht. Much better. My Cannondale Synapse had a 530 TT with 130 mm ht, and the Pina Due had been around 525 (may have been 528, can't remember), and no idea what the HT was. Made the second trip and got my bike. I could have stayed in a hotel several days and waited for the bike to come in, since Gita was only a few hours away, but 2 trips were better. 

Was this a sexist issue? Yeah, it was. Why? Guy's tone was so condescending, and when I asked questions, he acted like there was no way I could understand (I wanted to know what the differences in carbon cloth were, he said it was complicated...blah blah. He did that with a lot of things. Jeeze. ). 

Anyway. Long and drawn out. I believe if it hadn't been that guy, one of his sales associates would have managed to sell me the bike. Not sure why he was okay with ordering a lower quality bike, but not the Quattro. But, anyway! I got the right bike, and it actually fits. I wasn't positive, back then what was off about my cannondale, so could never tell if it needed to be slightly larger or smaller. (I'm weird to fit cause I use a zero-offset seat post, and it took years to figure that out, definitely changes bike fit). 

Okaaaay. Didn't mean to write an essay!!


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## aureliajulia

il sogno said:


> Thanks, QQQ.
> 
> To flesh out the story about shop people schmoozing my husband, one of those shops is actually owned by a woman. You read it right, a woman. In that instance, we were at that shop because they have a bunch of nice bikes and They are about 14 miles from our house. I wanted to check out the Time frames. The salesman kept steering me towards the heavier lower end Time frame. I wanted the nice light one. The woman shop owner was there but she was schmoozing with a guy ringing up the gels he was buying.
> 
> I wound up buying my Colnago C59 with Campy Record 11 at a shop that I go to semi regularly (because it's about 20 miles from our house). When we walked in, the shop owner recognized me and greeted me. I told him I wanted to buy a bike. He let me test ride his personal bikes (a BMC and a Time) as well as a Colnago in the shop. I told him I wanted the C59 with Campy Record. He told me that if I had some flexibility in my budget, he would cut me a deal on Super Record 11. He worked the numbers and offered me the Super Record 11 grouppo for about $110 more.
> 
> I took the deal.
> 
> View attachment 305717


Beautiful bike!!


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## Jwiffle

aureliajulia said:


> Was this a sexist issue? Yeah, it was. Why? Guy's tone was so condescending, and when I asked questions, he acted like there was no way I could understand (I wanted to know what the differences in carbon cloth were, he said it was complicated...blah blah. He did that with a lot of things. Jeeze. ).


He probably didn't know what the differences were in the carbon cloth, either, but his pride wouldn't let him admit it.


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## Donn12

il sogno said:


> There's another shop in town, about 8 miles from my house. They are willing to swap out wheels to make the deal.


 I would get a price for both ways. My shop will swap them out but the extra to keep the originals is usually so low it's a no brainer. What model were you looking at? Maybe there were other differences ? Sometimes salespeople make up their mind that one option is much better but don't listen to customers.


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## il sogno

Donn12 said:


> I would get a price for both ways. My shop will swap them out but the extra to keep the originals is usually so low it's a no brainer. What model were you looking at? Maybe there were other differences ? Sometimes salespeople make up their mind that one option is much better but don't listen to customers.


He was trying to sell me the $5000 Stumpjumper.


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## Donn12

If it is the expert carbon or expert carbon World Cup you get a carbon bike and carbon wheels. If someone wants a light bike that is what I would try to sell them. There are other differences in the specs as well. Be warned if you do get one - the brakes howl like Moines business. I replaced the rotors on my epic and most of the noise went away


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## RkFast

il sogno said:


> t is clear to me that because I was a woman shopping for a bike on my own, the shop owner thought he could convince me to buy a bike way above my budget and then get me to buy two sets of wheels along with that bike.


No its not.


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## il sogno

RkFast said:


> No its not.


Thanks for telling me what to think.


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## TJay74

Ok here is my thought, as said I don't think the owner was sexist at all. My local LBS that I have spent over $30k with over the last 3 years wouldn't swap wheels out for me either, and I spend a lot of money and tend to have some pull with the store mgr and owner. They still wont do that for the reasons stated before. They have no way to give you a fair trade value for the stock wheels and then they are the ones stuck trying to sell the stock wheels which probably are not a high demand wheel set.

My thoughts and this is coming from someone who Started on Trek bikes, went to a Spec Epic FS and now rides a Giant Anthem Advanced 27.5-1 with the factory Giant carbon wheels ($8k setup) is to skip Specialized all together. 

Their bikes are expensive, you can get a lot more for the $$$ with other brands and get what you want. Case in point

Giant XTC Advanced 27.5-1 - Carbon frame, carbon wheels, XT drivetrain. Retail is $4125, you should be able to get at least 10% off.

Giant XTC Advanced SL 27.5-1 - Carbon frame (lighter and stiffer than the XTC Advanced), carbon wheels, SRAM 1x11 XO drivetrain, Rockshox SID RL fork - $5150, once again you could prob get 10% knocked off.

Both of those bikes are excellent options and meet all of your preference points. I am picking up the XTC Advanced SL 27.5-1 after the new year to complement my AA1 that I am on now. Best of both worlds, FS for the rough stuff and HT for the faster more flowing tracks.


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## il sogno

TJay74 said:


> Ok here is my thought, as said I don't think the owner was sexist at all. My local LBS that I have spent over $30k with over the last 3 years wouldn't swap wheels out for me either, and I spend a lot of money and tend to have some pull with the store mgr and owner. They still wont do that for the reasons stated before. They have no way to give you a fair trade value for the stock wheels and then they are the ones stuck trying to sell the stock wheels which probably are not a high demand wheel set.
> 
> My thoughts and this is coming from someone who Started on Trek bikes, went to a Spec Epic FS and now rides a Giant Anthem Advanced 27.5-1 with the factory Giant carbon wheels ($8k setup) is to skip Specialized all together.
> 
> Their bikes are expensive, you can get a lot more for the $$$ with other brands and get what you want. Case in point
> 
> Giant XTC Advanced 27.5-1 - Carbon frame, carbon wheels, XT drivetrain. Retail is $4125, you should be able to get at least 10% off.
> 
> Giant XTC Advanced SL 27.5-1 - Carbon frame (lighter and stiffer than the XTC Advanced), carbon wheels, SRAM 1x11 XO drivetrain, Rockshox SID RL fork - $5150, once again you could prob get 10% knocked off.
> 
> Both of those bikes are excellent options and meet all of your preference points. I am picking up the XTC Advanced SL 27.5-1 after the new year to complement my AA1 that I am on now. Best of both worlds, FS for the rough stuff and HT for the faster more flowing tracks.


I liked the Giant Anthem. I never got to ride a Specialized X country bike. I did get to ride some Niners. If I were to buy a mountain bike today, it would be the Niner Jet 9 RDO.


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## AlanE

I'll bet you have some good stories to tell about the times you took your car in for repairs. Without your husband.


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## Lindy B.

I have had numerous experiences at different mechanics when I go without my husband. One guy told my Honda Element was due for a "major" service when I had scheduled a "minor" service. Nothing I said would convince him otherwise. The price difference was huge. I finally had to retrieve the Element's manual and show him what exactly was due at that mileage. They don't pull this crap when my husband takes his car in.


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## whateveronfire

Topanga Creek carries Niners and Pivots. Chris has always done right by me.

Do you mind letting other SoCalers know which shop was trying to upset you on the Spesh?


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