# Zwift and trainer difficulty setting



## sasquatch16 (Feb 7, 2013)

I have been using Zwift for a little while this winter. Recently found the setting for trainer difficulty and apparently it defaults to 50%. Switched it to 100% and wow did the hills get hard. Pretty much mimics real life hills for me. 
My question is why would you not want to ride at 100% for the most realistic ride. Just curious what most people have this set at.


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## bmach (Apr 13, 2011)

To earn K/QOM?


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

sasquatch16 said:


> I have been using Zwift for a little while this winter. Recently found the setting for trainer difficulty and apparently it defaults to 50%. Switched it to 100% and wow did the hills get hard. Pretty much mimics real life hills for me.
> My question is why would you not want to ride at 100% for the most realistic ride. Just curious what most people have this set at.


I read 25% for people posting about it on FB so as not to get dropped on the descents when resistance decreases too much.


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## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

I can't put the difficulty slide all the way up or the wheel starts slipping on my trainer (otherwise I would). So I set it about 75%. Hill is still quite realistic, but doesn't cause my tire to slip, at least not much.

Bmach - seeing it lower won't necessarily help you get kom. The slider is more a realism slide than an easier/harder slide. You'd still have to put out the same watts no matter where on the slide if you want to achieve kom.


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

Jwiffle said:


> I can't put the difficulty slide all the way up or the wheel starts slipping on my trainer (otherwise I would). So I set it about 75%. Hill is still quite realistic, but doesn't cause my tire to slip, at least not much.
> 
> Bmach - seeing it lower won't necessarily help you get kom. The slider is more a realism slide than an easier/harder slide. You'd still have to put out the same watts no matter where on the slide if you want to achieve kom.


I agree its all down to watts but I can't help thinking its a bit easier for me using a dumb trainer. I get to use a smooth high-cadence spin whereas folks with the KickR on 100% are grinding up at a lower, less smooth cadence.


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## pittcanna (Oct 2, 2014)

The thing about the "difficulty" on the trainer in zwift. It should really be re named variability. Depending on which trainer your on int terms of simulated graident limitations. Trainers like tacx neo and kickr wheel on can simulate 15% + graidents on an assumed rider weight of 75Kg. On lower end wheel on trainers it amounts to about 7 to 10% graidents at full scale.

On a course like watopia in zwift where the variability is great because of terrain that it is trying to pull off. For this it would be wise to do a trainer setting of 50% to 75% just so your not doing something that is otherwise not realistic.

Now watopia flat course and richmond course offer a more realistic terrain for this the a trainer setting of 75 to 100% is suitable.

The reason to turn it down is just to decrease the variability. Watts are watts in the world of zwift it is up to the user to put the power out. I leave the trainer at 100% because it gives me the required response on gradients. And it makes me spin like hell on descents.


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## sasquatch16 (Feb 7, 2013)

I am using a Kickr and leave it at 100% now. Much harder to get many watts on the downhill sections but this allows a break from the climbs which seems more realistic. I think it is easier at the 50% because all my PR's are from when I first started at the default 50%


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## OldChipper (May 15, 2011)

Where is this difficulty setting in Zwift?


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

OldChipper said:


> Where is this difficulty setting in Zwift?


It only shows up if you have a smart trainer, then on the settings page. The way I get to it is start a ride, and stop, then the end ride? screen shows up, and it's the button on the lower right of your screen. There's other ways to get there I'm sure but that's how I get to it.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

DaveG said:


> I agree its all down to watts but I can't help thinking its a bit easier for me using a dumb trainer. I get to use a smooth high-cadence spin whereas folks with the KickR on 100% are grinding up at a lower, less smooth cadence.


In erg mode, pedal faster and resistance will go down, pedal slower and resistance goes up, but power remains the same.


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## dgeesaman (Jun 9, 2010)

sasquatch16 said:


> I have been using Zwift for a little while this winter. Recently found the setting for trainer difficulty and apparently it defaults to 50%. Switched it to 100% and wow did the hills get hard. Pretty much mimics real life hills for me.
> My question is why would you not want to ride at 100% for the most realistic ride. Just curious what most people have this set at.


All trainers can output a certain amount of torque resistance. I weigh 200lb and so I require a trainer that has twice the torque to simulate a given hill compared to a 100lb rider.

Then there is the issue of mechanical load on the bike and trainer. When I stand on the pedals hard to get up a very steep hill, the bike surges forward with each downstroke. For me that happens on anything over 10% grade. Trying to output the same net torque on a trainer might be impossible. 

So in any case, developing full "in real life" torque is not very practical. Just getting the change in resistive torque and changing gears / cadence is the main value in a smart trainer.

I expect in the future that trainers will have lower flywheel inertia and could be more realistic. Then maybe full torque will be practical.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

sasquatch16 said:


> I have been using Zwift for a little while this winter. Recently found the setting for trainer difficulty and apparently it defaults to 50%. Switched it to 100% and wow did the hills get hard. Pretty much mimics real life hills for me.
> My question is why would you not want to ride at 100% for the most realistic ride. Just curious what most people have this set at.


I don't know squat about this zwift thing but why on earth would you think that people would want to simulate grinding up a difficult hill for 100% of their training? Or did I not get what you're suggesting?


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## apn (Mar 1, 2012)

Jay Strongbow said:


> I don't know squat about this zwift thing but why on earth would you think that people would want to simulate grinding up a difficult hill for 100% of their training? Or did I not get what you're suggesting?


The setting is a "realism" value for smart trainers i.e. do you want the full effect or watered-down impact of the gradient.

Thus at 100% you're getting the full resistance of a gradient, whereas assuming it's linear, at 50% the trainer is only giving you half of the resistance.

Manipulating this setting, having a low body weight in your profile and multiple wheel magnets are just a few of the ways to "game" Zwift and get yourself a sprint/lap/*OM jersey. They're only kidding themselves...


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

apn said:


> The setting is a "realism" value for smart trainers i.e. do you want the full effect or watered-down impact of the gradient.
> 
> Thus at 100% you're getting the full resistance of a gradient, whereas assuming it's linear, at 50% the trainer is only giving you half of the resistance.
> 
> Manipulating this setting, having a low body weight in your profile and multiple wheel magnets are just a few of the ways to "game" Zwift and get yourself a sprint/lap/*OM jersey. They're only kidding themselves...


perhaps my mistake/lack of understanding is my assumption that when people 'train' what they want to do is train and under that assumption I was thinking it's pretty obvious why someone wouldn't want to simulate a difficult hill climb all the time.

I kind of retired from computer screen competitions when I got my name to #1 on the Asteroids machine at the local Pizza joint back in 1983 so I tend not to think of cycling 'training' along those lines.


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## apn (Mar 1, 2012)

The climbs on Zwift aren't long and IIRC, the max gradient is ~12% on both the Richmond and Watopia courses. 

Zwift recently added options to ride each course flat, so those wanting to avoid the hills can select that option or self-navigate the intersections to avoid the climb routes.

I think most use Zwift as a tool to alleviate the boredom of the trainer when we can't get outside. However, clearly there's an element of subscribers that see it as a video game, and to "win" at any cost, lol.

After riding 80 miles outdoors on Saturday, I was on Zwift last night doing 2x20 FTP intervals. Even when I was going hard I had riders passing me like I was standing still. Zwift flags their numbers in red if the W/Kg appears suspicious, but it doesn't seem to stop them getting the particular jersey(s).

What's even funnier are those bragging on Facebook about their prowess on Zwift, even posting screenshots showing incredible speeds, super-human power and other absurd metrics. I've even seen people commenting about the "great photo" of their Zwift avatar, even people talking about great mid-ride group shots - of freaking avatars. OMG.

My last video game addiction was DOOM in the mid 90's :blush2:


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

apn said:


> The climbs on Zwift aren't long and IIRC, the max gradient is ~12% on both the Richmond and Watopia courses.
> 
> Zwift recently added options to ride each course flat, so those wanting to avoid the hills can select that option or self-navigate the intersections to avoid the climb routes.
> 
> ...


I see a lot of Zwifters get really upset about cheaters. It really doesn't bother me that much as I am competing against my own PRs and I am not in a league to contest the jerseys anyway. However, I do think its really sad and pathetic that someone would bother to cheat when there is nothing tangible to be gained from it.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

apn said:


> After riding 80 miles outdoors on Saturday, I was on Zwift last night doing 2x20 FTP intervals. *Even when I was going hard I had riders passing me like I was standing still.* Zwift flags their numbers in red if the W/Kg appears suspicious, but it doesn't seem to stop them getting the particular jersey(s).
> 
> What's even funnier are those bragging on Facebook about their prowess on Zwift, even posting screenshots showing incredible speeds, super-human power and other absurd metrics. I've even seen people commenting about the "great photo" of their Zwift avatar, even people talking about great mid-ride group shots - of freaking avatars. OMG.


So these "riders" that pass you, those images are the result of a real person riding somewhere who signed up for the same course at the same time as you?

I could see that being useful or fun to "ride" with my riding buddies in the winter or when for whatever reason we couldn't get outside.......but generally speaking when I train indoors I couldn't give a flying fck about being slower or faster than an image that represents some stranger I've never met and know nothing about. that strikes me as odd but whatever floats ones boat.


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## sasquatch16 (Feb 7, 2013)

Jay Strongbow said:


> I don't know squat about this zwift thing but why on earth would you think that people would want to simulate grinding up a difficult hill for 100% of their training? Or did I not get what you're suggesting?


You are not grinding up a hill for 100% of the time. If you are going up a 10% grade at 100% it feels very realistic to me as I have my weight, 265 lbs., entered correctly. As I see it if you ride at 50% that hill feels like going up a 5% grade. I use Zwift for training to get better and the only person I compete against is myself so I keep it at 100% to keep it real.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

sasquatch16 said:


> You are not grinding up a hill for 100% of the time. If you are going up a 10% grade at 100% it feels very realistic to me as I have my weight, 265 lbs., entered correctly. As I see it if you ride at 50% that hill feels like going up a 5% grade. I use Zwift for training to get better and the only person I compete against is myself so I keep it at 100% to keep it real.


okay, got you. So you're asking; If someone is going to bother simulating hills why not make it realistic. You got me there. I get going easy on the trainer but why bother with the hill simulation thing if that's the goal.


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## apn (Mar 1, 2012)

Jay Strongbow said:


> So these "riders" that pass you, those images are the result of a real person riding somewhere who signed up for the same course at the same time as you?
> 
> I could see that being useful or fun to "ride" with my riding buddies in the winter or when for whatever reason we couldn't get outside.......but generally speaking when I train indoors I couldn't give a flying fck about being slower or faster than an image that represents some stranger I've never met and know nothing about. that strikes me as odd but whatever floats ones boat.


I theory yes, it's a real rider somewhere. Although it's possible, I can't imagine why someone might setup a motorized wheel, complete with ANT+ sensors.

Zwift pre-selects the course based on the day of the week, although there's a little-known hack to force a preferred course regardless of the day.

The concept is very good and you can "ride" with your own group of friends and there are many organized rides and races every week. The text chatter can be annoying, but you also have the more private option to voice-chat via teamspeak etc.

I keep everything real (profile/settings etc) and use Zwift for structured training and the occasional group ride. Since I'm not contesting jerseys, I ignore the idiots, however, as DaveG points out, many people get annoyed by the zPower abusers and other cheaters.


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

Jay Strongbow said:


> So these "riders" that pass you, those images are the result of a real person riding somewhere who signed up for the same course at the same time as you?
> 
> I could see that being useful or fun to "ride" with my riding buddies in the winter or when for whatever reason we couldn't get outside.......but generally speaking when I train indoors I couldn't give a flying fck about being slower or faster than an image that represents some stranger I've never met and know nothing about. that strikes me as odd but whatever floats ones boat.


It depends on your goals and preferences. Just like in real life I don't like getting dropped (not that I can usually prevent it). So, if someone passes me on a climb on Zwift I might try to chase them down, or maybe try to hang with the stronger riders as long as I can. So for me, its just about motivation and having some fun while trying to say fit. You also have the option of doing structured workouts on Zwift. In that case you are just out there on the course doing your own thing, but with scenery


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## sasquatch16 (Feb 7, 2013)

One thing I think would be interesting and motivational is to change my weight to reflect the 35lbs that I want to lose to see how much easier riding up hill would actually be. 

Dont worry KOM chasers I would not save ride.


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

You think you'd be able to get a kom even minus 35 lbs? Very doubtful.


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## Aadub (May 30, 2015)

sasquatch16 said:


> One thing I think would be interesting and motivational is to change my weight to reflect the 35lbs that I want to lose to see how much easier riding up hill would actually be.
> 
> Dont worry KOM chasers I would not save ride.


I believe that most people riding zpower do this, or have entered their weight from when they were 12 yrs old..


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

sasquatch16 said:


> One thing I think would be interesting and motivational is to change my weight to reflect the 35lbs that I want to lose to see how much easier riding up hill would actually be.
> 
> Dont worry KOM chasers I would not save ride.


Well, if you are doing that I am going to give my avatar hair and an overall youthful look!


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## pedalbiker (Nov 23, 2014)

Aadub said:


> I believe that most people riding zpower do this, or have entered their weight from when they were 12 yrs old..


Exactly. The KOMs are 100% pointless. Flat-out absurd cheating has ruined them all.


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## djg21 (Oct 25, 2003)

So you do not have to shift out of your large chainring. I prefer the more realistic feel and don't mind shifting.


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## sasquatch16 (Feb 7, 2013)

pedalbiker said:


> You think you'd be able to get a kom even minus 35 lbs? Very doubtful.


Absolutely no chance of this happening. Just kidding.


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