# How much does your saddle bag weigh?



## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Assuming you use a saddle bag, what does it weigh with everything you would take for a long ride in it? I knew mine was heavy before I weighed it for grins tonight, but my gosh, I think it's more then my front wheel at *750 grams!* 

Contents include 3 CO2 cartridges and dispenser, 2 tubes, a multi tool, a couple quick links some bills and change plus a cygolite tail light on the back.

On edit: forgot I have a pair of Pedros tire tools in there too.


----------



## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

'attsa lotta junk in yo trunk. I'm away from my house so I can't weight now but I carry one over sized co2, screw on infaltor one tube, tiny flat multi, two plastic levers and a twenty dollar bill in this thing: TriBomb - Detailed Review of Scicon Aeronaut Saddle Bag

on short rides around the house I get lazy and tell my girl to "take her phone off of vibrate, because I'm not changing flats on the side of the road at night" and simply twist the bag off my bike.


----------



## TJay74 (Sep 9, 2012)

Mine is prob close to yours, 1 spare tube, 2 CO2, 2 levers, multi tool, inflator and around $10 in loose bills.


----------



## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

Whatever two tubes, three CO2 cylinders, and inflator, multitool, and tire lever weighs. I also carry a minipump attached to a mount on my downtube. When my body fat is around 5%, I'll worry about the weight of the bag. For now, I can handle just about anything that occurs on a ride.


----------



## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

226g that's my Sticky Pod. Plus a mini pump in a dif pocket. 750 is a lot! I'm surprised! Prolly all the multi tool.


----------



## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

Can you guys recommend an accurate scale for me to weigh my food?

I need to slim down.

I might as well join the weight weenie gang and actually own an accurate scale. I don't plan to use it to weigh any bicycle parts though.


----------



## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

myhui said:


> Can you guys recommend an accurate scale for me to weigh my food?
> 
> I need to slim down.
> 
> I might as well join the weight weenie gang and actually own an accurate scale. I don't plan to use it to weigh any bicycle parts though.


You don't need to go that far. You do need to track what you are putting in your mouth. Pretty good accuracy is important, perfect is not important. It's easier than you think. Once you get into the swing of it you'll find you repeat a lot of foods and it gets easy and quick.


----------



## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

PBL450 said:


> You don't need to go that far.


You are certainly right.

*Real* weight weenies go to extremes to compare weights of different bicycle parts, but they hardly care about what or how much they eat!


----------



## Roland44 (Mar 21, 2013)

myhui said:


> You are certainly right.
> 
> *Real* weight weenies go to extremes to compare weights of different bicycle parts, but they hardly care about what or how much they eat!


That's so true. Focus more on your body and strength and less on the weight of your bike.


----------



## AlanE (Jan 22, 2002)

Interesting question - I never actually weighed mine before. So including my mini-pump, based on my digital bathroom scale, I'm carrying an extra 3.0 pounds of stuff. And that doesn't include the stuff I carry in my back pockets, like my cell phone. The saddle bag is packed with all the usual - 2 tubes, CO2, tools, cleat covers, etc. Plus the saddle bag has a clip-on rear light.


----------



## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

myhui said:


> Can you guys recommend an accurate scale for me to weigh my food?



OXO works for me, and seems accurate. They make one with pull out controls/displays in case you want to put a big bowl or sheet pan on it and still be able to read it. Reads to the nearest gram, or 1/8 ounce. But any electronic scale with a tare function (zero function, so you re-set it to zero with stuff on it) will be accurate enough for diet purposes.

You can get ones accurate to 0.5 g or even 0.1 g. For food, seems silly to go to that level.

Nice review of some options: The Best Kitchen Scale | The Sweethome


----------



## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

PBL450 said:


> You don't need to go that far. You do need to track what you are putting in your mouth.


Many people have no idea what 4 ounces of chicken looks like. Cadence is not needed on a cycling computer, for riders who know cadence. Kind of the same thing with food portions. Learn the portion, the scale becomes less important. But the scale helps to learn portion size very well, just like a cadence function helps people learn what various cadences feel like.

Also, scales are nice for speeding up food prep. Instead of measuring out half a cup of milk, just pour 4 ounces into the bowl. Save a thing to clean. Instead of trying to get 1/4 a pound of macaroni out of a pound box by guestimating, pour 4 oz out and know you have it right (and will have 3 more meals out of that box). Plus, how much does a cup of broccoli weigh? Depends on how small you cut it! But 6oz is 6oz, with equal nutrition every time.

For baking, they rule. Which is what I use mine for, since I don't count calories.

And, I suppose, you can always weigh bike parts on them. If you care about that kind of thing.

And you can check the deal you are getting from your.... farmer's market vendor. 

So lots of uses. $10 ones are out there, so for that price seems like a handy thing to have around the house.


----------



## Mengtian (May 31, 2015)

My back pockets have my pump, tubes, irons,and a mini tool and phone. I have a top tube bage that I ony put food in. So if the rid is less than 40 miles: nothing. Anything more I just put a few snack bars in or a tortilla with PB&J

As far as weighing food: Unless you are on such a strict diet that would require exact portions I would forget about it. QQQ had good advice: learn what the portions look like.


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

I don't even really know what my bicycle weighs.


----------



## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

I don't use a saddle bag. I use storage container in my second bottle cage, usually riding with just 1 water bottle. I keep myself very well hydrated, drinking 10-12 cups of water everyday. I've found 1 water bottle usually lasts me about 40 miles on typical warm days... if its really hot, maybe 20 miles. Plus, I live in NJ, so no matter where you are, you're never really more than 15 minutes from a convenience store of some sort, even in the most remote, most farmland areas of the state.... if I really need more water, I stop.

I use a Shimano Pro storage bottle and carry 1 tube, 2 Co2 canisters, 1 trigger, 1 Specialized Micro tool (customized), 1 patch kit, 3 full size allen keys (4mm, 5mm, 6mm, I think), 1 presto/schrader adapter... so I can use a gas station air compressor if I have to. That's it. I have no idea what it weighs, but it has everything I need.


----------



## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

TricrossRich said:


> I use a Shimano Pro storage bottle and carry 1 tube, 2 Co2 canisters, 1 trigger, 1 Specialized Micro tool (customized), 1 patch kit, 3 full size allen keys (4mm, 5mm, 6mm, I think), 1 presto/schrader adapter... so I can use a gas station air compressor if I have to. That's it. I have no idea what it weighs, but it has everything I need.


I disagree. No magic link, no rear derailleur hanger, no gloves, no batteries but doubled up on co2, doubled up on tools and an adapter in case your doubled up co2 fails...


----------



## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

MMsRepBike said:


> I disagree. No magic link, no rear derailleur hanger, no gloves, no batteries but doubled up on co2, doubled up on tools and an adapter in case your doubled up co2 fails...


It has everything I need... might not be everything you need. sorry.


----------



## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> OXO works for me, and seems accurate. They make one with pull out controls/displays in case you want to put a big bowl or sheet pan on it and still be able to read it. Reads to the nearest gram, or 1/8 ounce.
> 
> ...
> 
> Nice review of some options: The Best Kitchen Scale | The Sweethome


Thank you for that review.

Here it is: OXO Good Grips 5-Pound Food Scale with Pull-Out Display, Black

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0020L6T7K/


----------



## Rokh Hard (Nov 25, 2013)

no bags on bike, it is not a truck. 

Obey the Rules.


#29 - the donts
Velominati › The Rules

#31 - the dos
Velominati › The Rules

proper application is middle jersey pocket - 

Velominati › Reverence: Lezyne Rule 31 Sack

Lezyne - Engineered Design - Products - OrganizerRoll Caddys - Roll Caddy










Obey the Rules.


----------



## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Rokh Hard said:


> Obey the Rules.


After you experience your first serious crash you can come back here and talk about your stupid rules.


----------



## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

my 'saddle' bag weighs whatever a ziploc sammich bag weighs...

5 grams? 10?


----------



## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

I ended up buying this one from Target's retail store, in person: Taylor 11lb Stainless Steel Food Scale : Target



It's just as good and is cheaper than the ones offered by Amazon.

After reading the following article about Amazon, and just by coincidence I had changed my credit card number yesterday, I will try to not update my card on my Amazon account and not buy anything from Amazon for as long as I can (maybe except for toilet paper).

N Y Times : Inside Amazon : Wrestling big ideas in a bruising workplace


----------



## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

MMsRepBike said:


> After you experience your first serious crash you can come back here and talk about your stupid rules.


Yeah, I've been thinking of changing back to an on-bike bag... I like the Sticky Pod a lot and I'm used to the jersey pockets... But you aren't the first one to mention the hard objects in your pockets issue. A


----------



## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

I occasionally use this one: Sonoma Adjustable Bike Seat Pack | Timbuk2 Bags

It's huge, but the length can be adjusted by rolling the bag into a tight loop, so the bag is only as large as what you have inside, even though the bag's weight is fixed.


----------



## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> Many people have no idea what 4 ounces of chicken looks like. Cadence is not needed on a cycling computer, for riders who know cadence. Kind of the same thing with food portions. Learn the portion, the scale becomes less important. But the scale helps to learn portion size very well, just like a cadence function helps people learn what various cadences feel like.
> 
> Also, scales are nice for speeding up food prep. Instead of measuring out half a cup of milk, just pour 4 ounces into the bowl. Save a thing to clean. Instead of trying to get 1/4 a pound of macaroni out of a pound box by guestimating, pour 4 oz out and know you have it right (and will have 3 more meals out of that box). Plus, how much does a cup of broccoli weigh? Depends on how small you cut it! But 6oz is 6oz, with equal nutrition every time.
> 
> ...


Huh? When you buy chicken it is priced per pound and all of that is listed rather obviously on the label. You'd have to be some kind of complete idiot not to be able to see what you are buying. So, you buty a package of 3 boneless, skinless Bell and Evans chicken breasts. The package weighs 1 pound. So, hmmm.... How much does one half of a breast (or piece in the package) weigh, roughly? Yes they vary... And they can vary a good bit. But that is completely irrelevant. You are tracking overall. Don't weigh your food, assume 1/3 of a pound for that half breast. Keep it like that. If you let the process become onerous you will abandon it. (Unless you are OCD, or have a disordered eating issue, which are different) You must maintain a healthy relationship with food and eating first and foremost. Finding a good balance is the key. I cook and I bake. I have 2 excellent kitchen scales. They have their place in a well equipped kitchen. But NO, you don't need to be weighing your food. If you do, then do it initially and move on. "Look, that's 4oz. Of chicken!" You don't need to weigh it again. If you can't do the math from the package that is? This is a disordered eating sport and we need not fuel those fires.

Oh and your comment about cadence is BS. I tried it. Maybe I'm cadence impaired but my mileage and exhaustion had significant impacts on my perception of cadence. It may or may not be a useful metric, but I don't trust someone's (subject to massively variable conditions) perception at all, including, and especially, mine. Maybe you are cadence gifted.


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

PBL450 said:


> Oh and your comment about cadence is BS. I tried it. Maybe I'm cadence impaired but my mileage and exhaustion had significant impacts on my perception of cadence. It may or may not be a useful metric, but I don't trust someone's (subject to massively variable conditions) perception at all, including, and especially, mine. Maybe you are cadence gifted.


Pick a leg and count it's revolutions for 10 seconds times 6. Or 15 seconds times 4. Easy to do a quick check without becoming obsessed with it.


----------



## Soaring Vulture (Jun 25, 2013)

My bag weighs 650 grams with 2 tubes, tire levers and a Topeak mini 18. I also carry a Lezyne pump (103gm).

Weighed on a Weight Watchers scale...


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Rokh Hard said:


> no bags on bike, it is not a truck.
> 
> Obey the Rules.
> 
> ...


No bags in my pockets, I'm not a mule.

Fck the rules.


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

My bag must weigh 10 or 12 pounds with a tube, patch kit, tools, pump and co2, a towel, my phone, a camera, three 6oz cans of pineapple juice, a glucose test meter, arm warmers, a couple of pieces of fruit, a baggie of fig newtons and extra cloths when the weather starts changing.

It's a lot of crap, but as a type one diabetic it sure is nice having enough food and drink to get the blood glucose back up when the lows rear their ugly head.

Oh, my saddle bag is really a large handlebar bag.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

919.2 grams which includes the bag, spare tube in a plastic bag, 8 hand towelettes, 2 Soma steel core irons, a QuikStik, Park MTB3, pair of cheap Eddie Bauer folding pliers/multi tool, tube of Gorilla Glue, Altoids tin box that holds various stuff like patches in a small plastic box, pills for diarrhea, allergy, sinus headache, and Ibuprofen, a Presta to Schrader converter, key for house, key for bike lock, ID card, boot patch, 2 bandaids, 1 butterfly, $1.10 in change, $40 in bills. Plus you did say long rides so I included the weight of a Met Rx Big 100 Colossal bar. I would add a spare tire if the long ride included riding on some gravel, which will fit in the bag, it weighs 165 grams.


----------



## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

MMsRepBike said:


> After you experience your first serious crash you can come back here and talk about your stupid rules.


Yeah, I'm not fond of metal gouging my lower back in a crash, either. Enough other things are gonna hurt.


----------



## nigel91 (May 16, 2012)

I use a small bottle in the back cage with short pump, spare tube, patches, glue, tyre scraper for puncture repair, 2x lever, band aid for when I inevitably scrape a knuckle at some point during the tyre change, paper towel to wipe my hands after & keep my white bar tape clean!

With a short Bontrager or Topeak pump you can just get the lid on a 550ml bottle, and the weight is down nice & low, unlike an EPMS swinging like bull testes below the saddle & spoiling the clean lines of the bike 

But really I understand those of you who like the convenience of a saddle bag, just not for me 👍


----------



## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

velodog said:


> My bag must weigh 10 or 12 pounds with a tube, patch kit, tools, pump and co2, a towel, my phone, a camera, three 6oz cans of pineapple juice, a glucose test meter, arm warmers, a couple of pieces of fruit, a baggie of fig newtons and extra cloths when the weather starts changing.
> 
> It's a lot of crap, but as a type one diabetic it sure is nice having enough food and drink to get the blood glucose back up when the lows rear their ugly head.
> 
> ...


That is a lovely ride, and I dig that bag, also.


----------



## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

froze said:


> 919.2 grams which includes the bag, spare tube in a plastic bag, 8 hand towelettes, 2 Soma steel core irons, a QuikStik, Park MTB3, pair of cheap Eddie Bauer folding pliers/multi tool, tube of Gorilla Glue, Altoids tin box that holds various stuff like patches in a small plastic box, pills for diarrhea, allergy, sinus headache, and Ibuprofen, a Presta to Schrader converter, key for house, key for bike lock, ID card, boot patch, 2 bandaids, 1 butterfly, $1.10 in change, $40 in bills. Plus you did say long rides so I included the weight of a Met Rx Big 100 Colossal bar. I would add a spare tire if the long ride included riding on some gravel, which will fit in the bag, it weighs 165 grams.


Ok, now I don't feel so over on mine - you have more room in yours obviously than I do. I can't really put much more in mine. Curious what bag you use that holds all that? I might want to upsize for my longer rides (150+ milers).


----------



## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

PBL450 said:


> Huh? When you buy chicken it is priced per pound and all of that is listed rather obviously on the label. You'd have to be some kind of complete idiot not to be able to see what you are buying. So, you buty a package of 3 boneless, skinless Bell and Evans chicken breasts...


Aside from the economic and culinary idiocy of buying boneless skinless breasts... not all parts of every bird are the same size. Not every breast is equally butchered in terms of amount of rib meat attached. And cut up chickens or whole chickens have bones, which alters the equation a bit if you are looking for 4oz of protein. 

And I assume someone asking about weighing their FOOD is interested in accurately measuring their food weight, not ballparking it. 



PBL450 said:


> Oh and your comment about cadence is BS. I tried it. Maybe I'm cadence impaired but my mileage and exhaustion had significant impacts on my perception of cadence. It may or may not be a useful metric, but I don't trust someone's (subject to massively variable conditions) perception at all, including, and especially, mine. Maybe you are cadence gifted.


Maybe you have no rhythm. Your inability to do simple tasks does not make my statement bs. 

If I pay attention when I am shelled on a ride, I will notice if my cadence has slipped. Notice my statement above said cadence is not NEEDED. Not that it is not handy for calling attention to slipping cadence, it will certainly do that. And if you pay attention, you might learn what slipping cadence feels like without having to look at a number to perceive it is happening.

Even small children can be taught to keep a beat.


----------



## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Rather than carry two tubes, I carry one and a few Parks stick-on patches just in case. A plastic tire lever, something to boot a cut tire, quick link, and sometimes a small lightweight combo tool. Topeak Racerocket pump. Too lazy to weight it.


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Opus51569 said:


> That is a lovely ride, and I dig that bag, also.


Front Bags ? Acorn Bags


----------



## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

814 grams.

Two CO2 cartridges, inflator head, one spare tube, various tools, patch kit, $20 bill.


----------



## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

We are weighing ancillary stuff now. Did we weigh our shoes/cleats, helmet, glasses, gloves, HRM stuff before or after this ? I need to get a lighter phone and wallet, pump, and a carbon fiber patch kit case and tire levers too I guess. Make sure you take [leave] a dump before take off too!

I am hearing Styx 'Too Much Time on my Hands' for some reason in my head....

OK, I'll stop now...


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Srode said:


> Ok, now I don't feel so over on mine - you have more room in yours obviously than I do. I can't really put much more in mine. Curious what bag you use that holds all that? I might want to upsize for my longer rides (150+ milers).


I use the Topeak Aero Wedge, they come in various sizes I use the large. The medium and large size expands the others do not. Their also very well made, the best made bag I've ever used in fact. Not sure about the water repellency, I have ridden in rain and so far no water got in but it is under the seat. If that was a concern someone could spray it with silicone waterproofing just to be safe.

I do need to wash after yesterday's mud bath ride, so I'll test it tomorrow and let you know if water gets in.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

robt57 said:


> We are weighing ancillary stuff now. Did we weigh our shoes/cleats, helmet, glasses, gloves, HRM stuff before or after this ? I need to get a lighter phone and wallet, pump, and a carbon fiber patch kit case and tire levers too I guess. Make sure you take [leave] a dump before take off too!
> 
> I am hearing Styx 'Too Much Time on my Hands' for some reason in my head....
> 
> OK, I'll stop now...


All I did was take my bag off the seat with all the stuff in it and weighed it, then added a meal bar which would go inside the bag if I needed one on a ride. I assumed that was all the info the OP was looking for.


----------



## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

Should we start a new thread on weight weenies for how much phones weight?

Mass of phones:

LG G3: 149g
LG G4: 155g

That's why I'm still using my G3 and haven't upgraded to the G4 yet.

You guys are nuts ...


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

myhui said:


> Should we start a new thread on weight weenies for how much phones weight?
> 
> Mass of phones:
> 
> ...


Don't upgrade to G4 because it's heavier than G3.


----------



## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Why are you bringing tools on a ride? If you have a serious enough mechanical that you have to break out tools and start wrenching, its time to call a cab.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

RkFast said:


> Why are you bringing tools on a ride? If you have a serious enough mechanical that you have to break out tools and start wrenching, its time to call a cab.


There are no cabs where I ride.


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

RkFast said:


> Why are you bringing tools on a ride?


Self sufficiency.


----------



## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

RkFast said:


> Why are you bringing tools on a ride? If you have a serious enough mechanical that you have to break out tools and start wrenching, its time to call a cab.


I don't carry tools. I might if I knew how to use them... But whey are heavy and require mechanical skills. My skills are pretty low level.


----------



## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

RkFast said:


> Why are you bringing tools on a ride? If you have a serious enough mechanical that you have to break out tools and start wrenching, its time to call a cab.


It's not sustainable if you can't make quick repairs to get yourself home without the assistance of a cab. Short of a catastrophic failure, there is no reason to call a cab or AAA.

Something got loose? Tighten it with a wrench or screwdriver.
Flat tire? Patch or replace the tube and shove a $1 bill under the tread as a makeshift boot.
Chain snapped? Break off the bad link with a chain tool and rejoin it with the good links.


----------



## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

PBL450 said:


> 226g that's my Sticky Pod. Plus a mini pump in a dif pocket. 750 is a lot! I'm surprised! Prolly all the multi tool.


Yup. 220 gm (including the bag itself). Tube, Park patches, Tyvek for a boot, bandana to wrap the tube, 5 & 4 mm Allen wrenches, 2 aluminum tire levers.


----------



## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Kerry Irons said:


> Yup. 220 gm (including the bag itself). Tube, Park patches, Tyvek for a boot, bandana to wrap the tube, 5 & 4 mm Allen wrenches, 2 aluminum tire levers.


Kerry, would you say 5mm and 4mm are most important sizes? Is this standard for all/most road bikes?


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

SauronHimself said:


> It's not sustainable if you can't make quick repairs to get yourself home without the assistance of a cab. Short of a catastrophic failure, there is no reason to call a cab or AAA.
> 
> Something got loose? Tighten it with a wrench or screwdriver.
> Flat tire? Patch or replace the tube and shove a $1 bill under the tread as a makeshift boot.
> Chain snapped? Break off the bad link with a chain tool and rejoin it with the good links.


Both you and VELODOG are barking up a tree, most modern youth have very little mechanical skills, car manufactures have made it all but impossible to work on a car so why bother to do anything on a car, just take it to the mechanic? If you don't learn mechanical skills then all you know how to do when a bike fails is to text for help.

I agree people need to learn to be self sufficient, but again most of the younger generation don't have a clue, the average youth now lives with mommy and daddy until they're 27, just 40 years ago it was 18. The youth today want to be taken care of, so when their bikes break they call mommy to come get them. Problem with that is the youth, especially males, get married and treat their wives as their mommies, not a great thing to do.

I feel the heat coming.

Problem with my generation is most of us don't understand computers as much as the youth today, but understanding and fixing computers won't do a damn thing to get your bike going.


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

froze said:


> Both you and VELODOG are barking up a tree, most modern youth have very little mechanical skills, car manufactures have made it all but impossible to work on a car so why bother to do anything on a car, just take it to the mechanic? If you don't learn mechanical skills then all you know how to do when a bike fails is to text for help. ...


Maybe that's one of the reasons that cycling has been taking a hit in popularity with youth over the years.


----------



## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

froze said:


> Both you and VELODOG are barking up a tree, most modern youth have very little mechanical skills, car manufactures have made it all but impossible to work on a car so why bother to do anything on a car, just take it to the mechanic? If you don't learn mechanical skills then all you know how to do when a bike fails is to text for help.
> 
> I agree people need to learn to be self sufficient, but again most of the younger generation don't have a clue, the average youth now lives with mommy and daddy until they're 27, just 40 years ago it was 18. The youth today want to be taken care of, so when their bikes break they call mommy to come get them. Problem with that is the youth, especially males, get married and treat their wives as their mommies, not a great thing to do.
> 
> ...


Huh? This is drivel. The youth of today is smarter and harder working that any I have worked with ove the past 15 + years. And they are much more frugal and interested in repairing things... They have to be... Their world is crappy compared to generations before them. They are screwed and they are smart. They are a great generation in an awful economy. They don't want to be taken care of. You have no clue. They are behind the 8 ball. We gave them this crap economy. You aren't great with computers? Then yes, you are most likely useless in the modern workplace. "Kids" today are sharp and hard working. If you disagree, you don't know them.


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

froze said:


> I feel the heat coming.


Canned Heat


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

PBL450 said:


> Huh? This is drivel. The youth of today is smarter and harder working that any I have worked with ove the past 15 + years. And they are much more frugal and interested in repairing things... They have to be... Their world is crappy compared to generations before them. They are screwed and they are smart. They are a great generation in an awful economy. They don't want to be taken care of. You have no clue. They are behind the 8 ball. We gave them this crap economy. You aren't great with computers? Then yes, you are most likely useless in the modern workplace. "Kids" today are sharp and hard working. If you disagree, you don't know them.


Well your world is quite different than mine. Too many of the youth that I've had the pleasure to work with are too lost in their telephone to care about what is going on around them. Yes, there are hard working young men and women, but I see more that just expect to get what those that have worked for theirs have earned. And the more who just get theirs, the fewer are those who are willing to earn theirs.

I've seen changes in my work that have made it so much easier, that it isn't easy enough. And those that have found a way to not do their job are proud of that accomplishment.

The youth has always felt like they are screwed, ain't nothin' new.


----------



## tka (Jun 11, 2014)

froze said:


> Both you and VELODOG are barking up a tree, most modern youth have very little mechanical skills, car manufactures have made it all but impossible to work on a car so why bother to do anything on a car, just take it to the mechanic? If you don't learn mechanical skills then all you know how to do when a bike fails is to text for help.
> 
> I agree people need to learn to be self sufficient, but again most of the younger generation don't have a clue, the average youth now lives with mommy and daddy until they're 27, just 40 years ago it was 18. The youth today want to be taken care of, so when their bikes break they call mommy to come get them. Problem with that is the youth, especially males, get married and treat their wives as their mommies, not a great thing to do.
> 
> ...


I work fulltime at Fortune 50 company with over 10,000 engineers. The last of our several summer interns left for school last Friday. It was amazing to find mechanical engineering interns that didn't know which way to turn a screw to loosen or tighten it, didn't know the difference between a socket head hex machine screw and a Torx screw, didn't understand torquing a fastener. A couple of them we questioned if they knew which end of a screwdriver to hold. 

Then we had one intern who was a superstar, she could easily disassemble and reassemble items, knew how to use tools, could read drawings, and actually understood what dimensional information on the prints meant. The most amazing part was she was a CompSci intern, and the C# code she wrote was very well done and bug free. Too bad she is the exception rather than the rule.

On topic, my saddle bag weights 360 grams, 420 gr with the blinky. 2 CO2 cartridges, PDW Shiny Object, 2 plastic tire levers, 1 spare tube, Park sticky patches, tire boot, spare KMC link, 4 & 5mm allen wrenches, and an Ikea RA straight/phillips screwdriver.


----------



## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

froze said:


> Both you and VELODOG are barking up a tree, most modern youth have very little mechanical skills, car manufactures have made it all but impossible to work on a car so why bother to do anything on a car, just take it to the mechanic? If you don't learn mechanical skills then all you know how to do when a bike fails is to text for help.
> 
> I agree people need to learn to be self sufficient, but again most of the younger generation don't have a clue, the average youth now lives with mommy and daddy until they're 27, just 40 years ago it was 18. The youth today want to be taken care of, so when their bikes break they call mommy to come get them. Problem with that is the youth, especially males, get married and treat their wives as their mommies, not a great thing to do.
> 
> ...


Perhaps I'm an exception to my generation, but I would want to think millennials should be more interested in basic bike maintenance since a lot of them can't afford new or decent used cars, so cycling is a more economical alternative. That being said, my car maintenance skills are pretty limited. I can change tires, brake pads/rotors, and batteries, but beyond that I'm rusty. It's nothing a YouTube video can't teach me, though.


----------



## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

tka said:


> It was amazing to find mechanical engineering interns that didn't know which way to turn a screw to loosen or tighten it, didn't know the difference between a socket head hex machine screw and a Torx screw, didn't understand torquing a fastener.


This has been status quo for at least 25 years (my dad had the same complaint about hiring new mechanical engineers back in the early 90s). Mechanical engineer does not equal mechanic. 

Probably more of an example of how higher education fails to give people skills they need to perform the actual job. Unfortunately, the current answer is to require a masters degree - which doesn't add to real skills. But, does increase student loan debt and an expectation of higher starting salaries.

Re saddlebag: Don't know or care much about weight. I carry a small multitool, spare tube, tire boot, 2 tire levers, 2 CO2 canisters, and a CO2 dispenser thing.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

SauronHimself said:


> Perhaps I'm an exception to my generation, but I would want to think millennials should be more interested in basic bike maintenance since a lot of them can't afford new or decent used cars, so cycling is a more economical alternative. That being said, my car maintenance skills are pretty limited. I can change tires, brake pads/rotors, and batteries, but beyond that I'm rusty. It's nothing a YouTube video can't teach me, though.


But at least you're willing to learn, that's a huge step in the right direction.

Speaking of engineers, are those guys graduates of some sort of paper mill "college"? because why on earth would any engineer put a batter, a simple battery in locations in a lot of cars requiring 2 hours to change out? Why put a heater core in a location that requires 5 hours to change out? The list goes on and on. engineers...LOL!


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

tka said:


> I work fulltime at Fortune 50 company with over 10,000 engineers. The last of our several summer interns left for school last Friday. It was amazing to find mechanical engineering interns that didn't know which way to turn a screw to loosen or tighten it, didn't know the difference between a socket head hex machine screw and a Torx screw, didn't understand torquing a fastener. A couple of them we questioned if they knew which end of a screwdriver to hold.


 This is nothing new. Been witnessing it for decades. Even engineers with years of experience often have little comprehension of practical application.



> Then we had one intern who was a superstar, she could easily disassemble and reassemble items, knew how to use tools, could read drawings, and actually understood what dimensional information on the prints meant. The most amazing part was she was a CompSci intern, and the C# code she wrote was very well done and bug free. Too bad she is the exception rather than the rule.


Most of her skills were probably self taught. I doubt she learned them in college.




crit_boy said:


> This has been status quo for at least 25 years (my dad had the same complaint about hiring new mechanical engineers back in the early 90s). Mechanical engineer does not equal mechanic.
> 
> Probably more of an example of how higher education fails to give people skills they need to perform the actual job. Unfortunately, the current answer is to require a masters degree - which doesn't add to real skills. But, does increase student loan debt and an expectation of higher starting salaries.


Yup. My son is currently in college to be a physics teacher. The $%#t he's learning is crazy. Stuff he'll never ever use. He's always asking "Why can't I learn about the stuff I'll actually need".


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

froze said:


> Speaking of engineers, are those guys graduates of some sort of paper mill "college"? because why on earth would any engineer put a batter, a simple battery in locations in a lot of cars requiring 2 hours to change out? Why put a heater core in a location that requires 5 hours to change out? The list goes on and on. engineers...LOL!


Always baffles me why the oil filter is at a location where it pours oil all down your arm when you remove it. Yet could be moved 2" and you could remove it just fine with no mess.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

PBL450 said:


> Huh? This is drivel. The youth of today is smarter and harder working that any I have worked with ove the past 15 + years. And they are much more frugal and interested in repairing things... They have to be... Their world is crappy compared to generations before them. They are screwed and they are smart. They are a great generation in an awful economy. They don't want to be taken care of. You have no clue. They are behind the 8 ball. We gave them this crap economy. You aren't great with computers? Then yes, you are most likely useless in the modern workplace. "Kids" today are sharp and hard working. If you disagree, you don't know them.


LOL, Smarter? harder working? LOL!!! where do you live? in a cave? Just go down to any fast food place, retail store, government office, etc, they're slow, they don't know anything about the products they sell.

I do admit the world today is crappier than it was 40 years ago, inflation has run amok as well as the national debt especially in the last 6 years, products we use fail in half the time then they use to, etc, so I get that but that has nothing to do with younger generation being mechanically inclined. There are so few mechanically inclined people today that the mechanics trades as well as machinist trades are seeing shortages of new workers. The only things they can repair is their computers, far from being mechanically savvy, and know that stuff won't do them a bit a good when their bike breaks down.

I know kids more than you think, and sharp hardworking doesn't come to my mind for most of them. Playing video games and text messaging while working, at home, at school doesn't make them smart or hardworking, staying home with mommy and daddy till their 25 is because the youth today, in general, don't want to work because it's easier to stay home and mommy and daddy support them, feed them, do their laundry, etc.

Just because the economy is bad doesn't mean there isn't jobs, I shown kids jobs and the response is: "I don't want do that job"! so they would rather sit at home and play.

Again not all kids are this way but the majority are.


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

tlg said:


> Always baffles me why the oil filter is at a location where it pours oil all down your arm when you remove it. Yet could be moved 2" and you could remove it just fine with no mess.


Exactly!! Another fine example of a college degree MBA engineer thinking while at work.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

froze said:


> Exactly!! Another fine example of a college degree MBA engineer thinking while at work.


I must say though, they got it right on my Saturn. The filter is on top of the engine. Just a cartridge with a cap. 2min to replace it and no oil spilled.


----------



## tka (Jun 11, 2014)

froze said:


> Speaking of engineers, are those guys graduates of some sort of paper mill "college"? because why on earth would any engineer put a batter, a simple battery in locations in a lot of cars requiring 2 hours to change out? Why put a heater core in a location that requires 5 hours to change out? The list goes on and on. engineers...LOL!





tlg said:


> Always baffles me why the oil filter is at a location where it pours oil all down your arm when you remove it. Yet could be moved 2" and you could remove it just fine with no mess.


See exhibit A: 



tka said:


> It was amazing to find mechanical engineering interns that didn't know which way to turn a screw to loosen or tighten it, didn't know the difference between a socket head hex machine screw and a Torx screw, didn't understand torquing a fastener. A couple of them we questioned if they knew which end of a screwdriver to hold.


People who don't know how to work on things don't know how to design maintainable systems. Most don't even know why they need to be maintainable.

I keep telling my staff that it is great that they put test points on their printed circuit boards. It would be even better if they put test points that are accessible when the board is assembled in the product rather than having them hidden. Putting the SPI header on the board is an acceptable cost. But putting the SPI header in a position that you can't get the mating connector on is just plain stupid. And I see it way too often.

Too much of our business systems have been downgraded to "processes". Ask our MBAs, if we just get a more robust process we'll get a better product. If the product isn't maintainable, we'll add a process to assess the maintainability. There, now an untrained monkey can develop a world class product, they can get their bonus, and the stockholders will be happy that we yet again increased our profits. It all falls apart because someone somewhere actually needs to know how to do something, but that person was fired years ago as being too costly.

/rant


----------



## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

froze said:


> But at least you're willing to learn, that's a huge step in the right direction.
> 
> Speaking of engineers, are those guys graduates of some sort of paper mill "college"? because why on earth would any engineer put a batter, a simple battery in locations in a lot of cars requiring 2 hours to change out? Why put a heater core in a location that requires 5 hours to change out? The list goes on and on. engineers...LOL!


I'm seeing this trend among NCGs at my company. They got degrees in disciplines like mechanical, electrical, or materials science engineering, but they never learned to think like engineers. They want the answers spoon fed to them, and they haven't realized the purpose of being an engineer is to solve practical problems. The ironic part is that I perform better as an engineer even though I have a physics degree. Maybe it's because I was formally trained in problem solving and DOE.



tlg said:


> Yup. My son is currently in college to be a physics teacher. The $%#t he's learning is crazy. Stuff he'll never ever use. He's always asking "Why can't I learn about the stuff I'll actually need".


It sounds like your son isn't entirely sure why he is pursuing physics as a degree.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

SauronHimself said:


> It sounds like your son isn't entirely sure why he is pursuing physics as a degree.


I don't see where you get that from. This is his senior year and he's exactly sure.


----------



## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Here's a great HBR article that actually showcases research on the fact that most of what you perceive are generational differences not things unique to millennials at all. I hope you can see it without being a Harvard Business Review subscriber. It worked when I checked it, but that isn't any guarantee. 

https://hbr.org/2014/07/4-things-yo...als/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews

Here is another good one: (pardon the title, the content is very, very good) I hope it works...

thehowardbealeshow ? Millenials Are Getting ****ed

i have spent a lot of time with these guys and they impress me. I do have a HUGE sample bias in my world, I don't know a single engineering student. I know social work students. Thay are awesome and motivated, mostly.... Of course not all of them, but that's true of everywhere. 

We we are NOT teaching them things they need to know. That's not their fault, we made the rules they have to play by. Over 90% of Provosts (senior academic VPs) believe they are graduating students that are very well prepared to enter the workforce. Under 20% of actual employers agree. That says a LOT right there folks. The system is completely broken. It is bloated, out of touch and at this point in history probably burdening graduates more than helping them. It is an industry and it is feasting off the vulnerability of young people, solving problems by throwing money at them and raising tuition. These kids have mortgages long before they have a house. They aren't lazy, they are debt burdened beyond anything in history. What we are doing to them is awful and as a side note will cripple the housing market.

All of your perceptions are well grounded in reality. Im not saying you are wrong at all. I'm just saying you are seeing generational stuff, that we were a lot like that too when we were 23. And I see plenty of entitlement. Plenty. I just wouldn't say it's risen.


----------



## Woyteck Morajko (Jan 7, 2005)

*saddle bag weigh?*

hahaha!

my carradice bag ALONE is more than 3lbs!!!
since all my rides are unsupported, I carry tools, food, clothes, tubes, lube, sun screen, etc. must be 15lbs/7kg at least


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

tlg said:


> I must say though, they got it right on my Saturn. The filter is on top of the engine. Just a cartridge with a cap. 2min to replace it and no oil spilled.


After over 100 years of making cars you would think "engineers" would get at least the oil filter location and how it's mounted correct, they did with yours but some don't. I've seen filters located in such position that it would spill on the engine when being removed thus after the oil change you get that smoky oil burning smell for a few hundred miles. I remember when Chevrolet (this is not to mention their first V8 gas engine converted to diesel fiasco) built an all aluminium engine to save gas back in the late 80's...ALL ALUMINUM, including the crank which would flat spot after just 10,000 to 12,000 miles, while some were covered under warranty guess what Chevy did to fix it? replace the aluminum crank with another aluminium crank under warranty which would only fail again but by then the warranty was gone. Why build cars where you have to either remove the fuel injection rail system entirely or take the engine out just to replace plugs?


----------



## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

froze said:


> Both you and VELODOG are barking up a tree, most modern youth have very little mechanical skills, car manufactures have made it all but impossible to work on a car so why bother to do anything on a car, just take it to the mechanic? If you don't learn mechanical skills then all you know how to do when a bike fails is to text for help.
> 
> I agree people need to learn to be self sufficient, but again most of the younger generation don't have a clue, the average youth now lives with mommy and daddy until they're 27, just 40 years ago it was 18. The youth today want to be taken care of, so when their bikes break they call mommy to come get them. Problem with that is the youth, especially males, get married and treat their wives as their mommies, not a great thing to do.
> 
> ...


I've said it before, but here goes. People have been complaining about the degradation of society since ancient Sumer. Maybe even before. Each generation yappity-yaps about how the next generation is this or that and what not. Eh. I think Americans work harder than any other industrialized nation and there are studies that show we are working harder now than in past generations. During each presidential election we get to hear how so and so is going to make America great again. Well, that's been happening too since the beginning of it all. America is great now. You won't catch me riding on Ted Nugent's America sucks train. 

In any case, I carry two tubes, a tire boot, 2 CO2 tanks, one CO2 inflation device, a small multi-tool, $10 and a patch kit. Praise America!!!


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Tschai said:


> I've said it before, but here goes. People have been complaining about the degradation of society since ancient Sumer. Maybe even before. Each generation yappity-yaps about how the next generation is this or that and what not. Eh. I think Americans work harder than any other industrialized nation and there are studies that show we are working harder now than in past generations. During each presidential election we get to hear how so and so is going to make America great again. Well, that's been happening too since the beginning of it all. America is great now. You won't catch me riding on Ted Nugent's America sucks train.
> 
> In any case, I carry two tubes, a tire boot, 2 CO2 tanks, one CO2 inflation device, a small multi-tool, $10 and a patch kit. Praise America!!!


Yes, America is great, with a great big 18 trillion dollar debt that's growing at a stagger pace, mostly thanks to Obama. Speaking of trains I hear the train pulling in from Greece...are you ready for the bail-in? Of course you're young so you have about 20 years before the big crisis hits, that's the estimated time frame for when the national debt will meet or exceed 100% of the GDP. Some national debt is good because US treasury bonds are sold worldwide and those are the backbone to the bond market, but to much of a good thing is bad and that's where we're at, and heading even further because a number that is hidden from us is total credit market debt, this is currently at 350% larger then the GDP.

Of course all that mumbo jumbo is just one financial wizard's opinion vs another, sort of like us here debating which material makes better frames. 

I too carry 1 tube, 10 glueless patches, 1 pump, a multi-tool, and $40 plus change...Praise America. Can't wait to see who the next puppet president will be!


----------



## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

froze said:


> Yes, America is great, with a great big 18 trillion dollar debt that's growing at a stagger pace, mostly thanks to Obama. Speaking of trains I hear the train pulling in from Greece...are you ready for the bail-in? Of course you're young so you have about 20 years before the big crisis hits, that's the estimated time frame for when the national debt will meet or exceed 100% of the GDP. Some national debt is good because US treasury bonds are sold worldwide and those are the backbone to the bond market, but to much of a good thing is bad and that's where we're at, and heading even further because a number that is hidden from us is total credit market debt, this is currently at 350% larger then the GDP.
> 
> Of course all that mumbo jumbo is just one financial wizard's opinion vs another, sort of like us here debating which material makes better frames.
> 
> I too carry 1 tube, 10 glueless patches, 1 pump, a multi-tool, and $40 plus change...Praise America. Can't wait to see who the next puppet president will be!


I swear to your god, if this thread gets moved to PO...


----------



## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

SauronHimself said:


> I swear to your god, if this thread gets moved to PO...


We can keep it here, in this forum, if we are tactful about what is said. For example, I can say that John Kerry has done a wonderful job for Obama, a president that has reduced the deficit by 2/3. Kerry is a cyclist and I wonder how much his saddle bag weighs?


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Tschai said:


> We can keep it here, in this forum, if we are tactful about what is said. For example, I can say that John Kerry has done a wonderful job for Obama, a president that has reduced the deficit by 2/3. Kerry is a cyclist and I wonder how much his saddle bag weighs?


If you're gonna be praising the standing president, I look forward to this getting moved to PO so I won't be subjected to such nonsense.


----------



## FeltF75rider (Feb 10, 2012)

Thanks to Obama I can only afford a 422 gram (14.888 oz) saddle bag with levers, 2 cartridges, inflator, levers, patch kit, multi tool and a couple other minor tools as well as the bag itself Fizik with the saddle clip built in.


----------



## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

velodog said:


> If you're gonna be praising the standing president, I look forward to this getting moved to PO so I won't be subjected to such nonsense.


Im not sure I understand? His point is simply that you can make a civil PO related post like sharing real life data and have a mod leave it in this thread? Maybe I'm missing something here? I thought it was clever and appropriate...


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

What's really strange is that the true unemployment rate is at 43% not averaging 5.5 as the statistics say, what, 43% you scream?, yup, for you see boys and girls disability is now mostly unemployed people who are using disability to continue to get "free" money. In 1985 the rate of disability per 1000 workers was just 9 people (unemployment during that same time was 7.5), as of 2010 that figure jumped to 18 out of 1000 people on disability (unemployment was at 9.5) again this is as of 2010. But wait it actually looks a lot worse if you go back to 1961 when very few people were on disability. The big increases in disability numbers come from difficult to prove diagnoses thus a lot of can be faked, stuff like back pain and other musculoskeletal issues, mental illness such as depression. So a person who may have gone on unemployment for 2 years realizes he's running out but wants to continue to have the freedom from work life. finds a doctor and complains about made up issues. Or a high school dropout who gets disability due to "learning" problems.

https://b-i.forbesimg.com/theapothecary/files/2013/04/SSDI-diagnoses.gif
How Americans Game the $200 Billion-a-Year 'Disability-Industrial Complex'

In addition you have people who simply never found work and either took an early retirement or went on welfare, which in America that alone is at 34.5%
The 35.4 Percent: 109,631,000 on Welfare

So unlike some here who thank Obama for all their stuff these type of people mentioned above may not be able to afford a bike, a saddle bag full of goodies, lights, etc, but can afford to play the lottery, smoke, drink, and use drugs.


----------



## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Hmmmm, I'm not sure we are even close to being on topic at this point!


----------



## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Srode said:


> Hmmmm, I'm not sure we are even close to being on topic at this point!


Sure we are, the great Obama has blessed us mightily so we can fill our saddle bags.


----------



## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

froze said:


> What's really strange is that the true unemployment rate is at 43% not averaging 5.5 as the statistics say, what, 43% you scream?, yup, for you see boys and girls disability is now mostly unemployed people who are using disability to continue to get "free" money. In 1985 the rate of disability per 1000 workers was just 9 people (unemployment during that same time was 7.5), as of 2010 that figure jumped to 18 out of 1000 people on disability (unemployment was at 9.5) again this is as of 2010. But wait it actually looks a lot worse if you go back to 1961 when very few people were on disability. The big increases in disability numbers come from difficult to prove diagnoses thus a lot of can be faked, stuff like back pain and other musculoskeletal issues, mental illness such as depression. So a person who may have gone on unemployment for 2 years realizes he's running out but wants to continue to have the freedom from work life. finds a doctor and complains about made up issues. Or a high school dropout who gets disability due to "learning" problems.
> 
> https://b-i.forbesimg.com/theapothecary/files/2013/04/SSDI-diagnoses.gif
> How Americans Game the $200 Billion-a-Year 'Disability-Industrial Complex'
> ...


This is actually delusional. If there are mods reading the thread has died. Lock it or move it? This isn't even close to anything like reality. I know this data as well as anyone in the country and I have been immersed in poverty research and public assistance research for two decades. Mimi Abromovitz is one of my heroes and I have had the pleasure of spending time with her. There is no one in this country that is as well respected and as expert as Mimi on welfare research. Not even close. And I will NOT post reality in defense of psychosis.


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

PBL450 said:


> ... And I will NOT post reality in defense of psychosis.


You just did.


----------



## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

ibericb said:


> You just did.


No. I did not. I could post mountains on why this is delsional. Not wrong, so far gone that it's bizarre world. That is where I'm not going. I'm too tired and lazy and this is NOT the place. I simply stated the research is out there and I'm well aware of it. Real research by well known scholars. If you disagree, have a good night... I'm done here.


----------



## shermes (Jul 26, 2008)

PBL450 said:


> No. I did not. I could post mountains on why this is delsional. Not wrong, so far gone that it's bizarre world. That is where I'm not going. I'm too tired and lazy and this is NOT the place. I simply stated the research is out there and I'm well aware of it. Real research by well known scholars. If you disagree, have a good night... I'm done here.


You just did it again.


----------



## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

shermes said:


> You just did it again.


Yep.

Not posting mountains or other specifics you could post, does not negate that you did, twice now, exactly what you said you would not do.

Let it die.


----------



## tlg (May 11, 2011)

FYI... don't ask women how much their saddle bags weigh.


----------



## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

froze said:


> What's really strange is that the true unemployment rate is at 43% not averaging 5.5 as the statistics say...


The employment/population ratio and unemployment rates (there are 6 different measures of unemployment the Feds use, btw) are different, and used for different purposes.

Unemployment rate does not equal people not working. Never has.

And I would say that anyone who says RETIRED PEOPLE should be counted as unemployed has as close to zero working knowledge of economic and social reality as can be and still type words into (almost) sentence form.


----------



## bigjohnla (Mar 29, 2010)

Back to the original question. I have a saddle bag. I carry two tubes, 2 CO2 cartridges, a screw on inflator (one chance only kind), a multi tool, some cash, and 2 pedros tire levers. I don't have any idea how much it weighs. My guess would be about 700 or 800 grams. Since I weigh in the high 200s, it doesn't really matter. As for the "Rules", screw the rules. If I had to carry all that junk in my jersey I would forget it half the time. I carry my cell phone, snacks and a an extra water bottle (on hot days) in my jersey. I own the book and found it extremely entertaining almost to the point of satire, which I think is the point.


----------



## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

At the moment, I believe she's around 120 lbs.


----------



## myhui (Aug 11, 2012)

froze said:


> Don't upgrade to G4 because it's heavier than G3.


The LG G4 Pro is coming, with Snapdragon 820: LG G4 Pro - Full phone specifications


----------



## jeremy_s (May 6, 2015)

1 tube, one patch kit, 2 co2 bottles, tiny multi tool. Shoehorned in a lezyne micro caddy. Weighs very little.


----------



## Rokh Hard (Nov 25, 2013)

observe rule #5.

Velominati ? The Rules


face it, at this stage of ones life #5 is going to happen for you....so, for the soft cyclist....(because we care about your soft body parts) lezyne offers you this..... 

Lezyne - Engineered Design - Products - Organizers - Flow Caddy













no tools on the bike. suck it up.


----------



## Rokh Hard (Nov 25, 2013)

froze said:


> Sure we are, the great Obama has blessed us mightily so we can fill our saddle bags.



i dont use saddle bags, they are for soft cyclists (carry your kit, the bike is not a truck).....the current administration sees me observing rule #12 


Velominati ? The Rules


and rule #25 -


Velominati ? The Rules


dont tranport bikes on the roof, employ this -

https://www.1upusa.com/product-quikrackblackdouble.html


----------



## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Rokh Hard said:


> i dont use saddle bags, they are for soft cyclists


You really think you're special don't you? I got news for you Fred, you're actually the laughing stock.


----------

