# Toughest Rides in CA?



## rollin nolan

What are the toughest organized rides in CA? 

Toughest Century = ?
Toughest Double = ?
Toughest Other = ?

What do you think?


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## johnny99

I heard that the "Tour of California" was pretty tough. And it gets tougher every year.


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## ukbloke

johnny99 said:


> I heard that the "Tour of California" was pretty tough. And it gets tougher every year.


Good answer!

For the other category, I think The Everest Challenge is hard to beat, especially as it is also a race not just a ride. The Climb To Kaiser is certainly a tough ride. The Alta Alpina looks utterly insane too.


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## JoelS

Mix Canyon is a really tough hill.


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## wipeout

Furnace Creek 508 (www.the508.com) probably. 508 miles, 35k feet of climbing, killer winds and often brutally hot.


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## robwh9

I think Mt. Everest Challenge is the toughest event, with 29,000 ft of climbing over 2 days.

600 K brevets (Santa Cruz, Santa Rosa, Davis, SLO) without sleep breaks are a close second. 

For doubles I think normally Devil Mountain is the toughest, but the Terrible Two on a hot day is tougher. Sounds like Alta Alpina's new double might be even tougher.

Climb to Kaiser is tough.

Death Ride is kinda tough.

Not sure about centuries, there are some in the Sierra: Auburn, Sierra, Grizzly?

Edit: I forgot about the Furnace Creek 508. I agree with wipeout, it's the toughest.


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## ukbloke

From a distance, climbing and route point of view the Sierra century (as run by the Sacramento Wheelmen in Calaveras County for the last 2 years) is less tough than the Death Ride. It has some notably crappy road surfaces which adds somewhat to the challenge. Of course excessively hot weather can change the character of the ride dramatically and this is the Sierra foothills so it can be pretty hot (eg. 2007). The Almador County version of the Sierra century is slightly less tough again I think, and I've heard the event is going back to Almador next year.

The Ebbett's Pass century out of Bear Valley is somewhat tougher than the Sierra Century, in my opinion, especially if you tack on a extra descent and climb of the east side of Ebbett's Pass late in the day for extra "fun". I nearly capitulated on that one, but ended up riding alongside the owner of Undiscovered Country Tours by complete chance which helped my spirits and I just kept on going. Still not as tough as the Death Ride though.

The Furnace Creek 508 is beyond my ability to comprehend.


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## Fixed

*508*

Ones I've done:

Furnace Creek 508 -- it's like doing Climb to Kaiser three times, but under less pleasant conditions -- killer headwinds, 35,000' climbing, bad roads, can be both 105 degrees and 38 degrees in the same weekend, feel like you want to puke from about 200 miles till the end; hills that can go on for 22 miles!

Climb to Kaiser -- tougher than most doubles
Central Coast Double
Terrible Two

Everest Challenge is tough -- as it's a road race

Grizzly Century is pretty tough, with over 10k' climbing - out of Northfork


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## ericm979

The Everest Challenge can be done as a ride- in addition to licensed racer categories, and public (unlicensed) racer categories, there's a "tourist" category. They don't keep times for the tourists, just record if they finished.

Unlike most races, there's plenty of support (food/water/sports drink).

The scenery is fantastic, and the riding is better than the Death Ride.


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## robwh9

*Not my experience...*



ericm979 said:


> Unlike most races, there's plenty of support (food/water/sports drink).


When I rode it ('02, I think) originally they were going to start the slow first (me) and the fast last. Then at the last minute they changed it to fast first and slow last. By the time I got to the third food stop, they'd already packed up and left to keep ahead of the leaders. Same with the fourth stop. They didn't even leave any water. It was over 100 F and I went more than an hour without any water. Finally I had to drink directly from a creek. It's the most dehydrated I've ever been and I had to abandon (for the first time ever). Luckily I didn't get giardiasis.


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## gray8110

rollin nolan said:


> What are the toughest organized rides in CA?
> What do you think?


I'd say that the Tour of the Unknown Coast and Shasta Super Century are both tougher than the Death Ride. Won't say they are the toughest because I haven't done a lot of rides in Ca - I know that C2K is very hard and usually takes place in stifling heat.

If we're discounting organized rides, there are a couple 100 mile rides in Siskiyou County that are more difficult than either of those. The <a href="http://shastapedali.com/past_rides/2007_rides/salmon_0507/index.htm">Salmon River Loop</a> is a perfect 100 miles with the obligatory 10,000' climbing - the last 4 miles of the final climb average 12% (this after about 25 miles of less severe climb leading into it.) The Mt Eddy Loop is another 100 mile, 10k climb ride - it isn't as purely difficult as the Salmon River Loop, but all three climbs are harder than anything in the Death Ride. Both of these are spectacular and remote. 
http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/activity/5518870

My team is considering putting on an organized century on the Salmon River course, but it is a bit tough to get support to an area as remote as that (not to mention the difficulty of getting medical support if needed.)


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## rollin nolan

I can't seem to find the registration form for the Tour of California on active.com. What gives? 

Climb to Kaiser is a difficult ride. It's the kind of ride that when you finish you say, "I'm never doing that again..... until next year". I'd like to have a serious talk with the surveyor who laid out the road on Big Creek. 20% grade is not humane. But it's fun to say you've ridden your bike up it. 

I'd like to do a double. Terrible Two sounds pretty brutal.


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## LouD-Reno

For a hundred miler, I'll vote for the Tour of the Unknown Coast as the toughest.... that said, it's probably my favorite ride of the year... absolutely spectacular setting. For "super centuries" one missing from the list is the Summer Solstice out of Quincy.... definitely brutal..... I've done the Deathride several times, and Mt Shasta this past year.... all great rides and tough....The Deathride has the best support, is the largest in terms of riders, by far, and has the roads closed to vehicle traffic for most of the ride.... oh yeah, and you're gonna spend a good part of your day around 8000'..... I had alot of fun at Shasta..... got there several days early and pre-road all of the climbs except the last.... the descent from the Ski area is one of the best.... that said, I get a chuckle from all the talk about it being tougher than the Deathride....they're both tough, fun, and memorable.... no need to call one harder than the other..... but if I gotta choose.... Deathride all the way......:ciappa:


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## ericm979

robwh9 said:


> When I rode it ('02, I think) originally they were going to start the slow first (me) and the fast last. Then at the last minute they changed it to fast first and slow last.


They have started the public and tourists early the last three years that I have ridden it.


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## norcalscot

For toughest Double I'd have to say it's a toss up between Devil Mountain and theTerrible Two. Devil Mountain has more climbing (18,600 feet), but the Terrible Two (16,500 feet) typically has higher temps. I did the new Alta Alpina double this June, which has over 20,500 feet of climbing, but to be honest it wasn't as difficult as either DMD or the TT - the grades are generally easier and the temps a bit cooler.

My vote would go for The Furnace Creek 508 - 509.6 miles and 35,000 feet of climbing.


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## Jimbolaya

How about short and sweet...
Moeser Lane, El Cerrito.
700 feet of climbing in 1 1/4 miles.
Approximate Ave 11% grade
Some sections are really steep.


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## AMike

Fixed said:


> Furnace Creek 508 -- it's like doing Climb to Kaiser three times, but under less pleasant conditions -- killer headwinds, 35,000' climbing, bad roads, can be both 105 degrees and 38 degrees in the same weekend, feel like you want to puke from about 200 miles till the end; hills that can go on for 22 miles!
> 
> 
> Everest Challenge is tough -- as it's a road race


Maybe it's familiarity, but having finished EC twice in somewhat competitive times, I can't even begin to imagine how tough 600km brevets or the 508 are. Completely different leagues IMO. My rear gets sore just thinking about riding that much in one go.


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## Gnarly 928

I'd have to go with the Everest Challenge race in the Owens Valley. As the toughest "normal ride". 
The Furnace Creek 508 is not open and it takes a bunch of "special" requirements to enter...Support crews, pre-qualification,etc. (and some big balls to contemplate that long in the saddle.)

The Everest Challenge, on the other hand, is ridden, by the competative people, like a pair of back to back one-day classics....There are pelotons, attacks, strategy and even some team tactics involved in racing EC...It all takes place in thin air and the climbs are relentless.. Try ~5 1/2 miles straight up and a bit over 200 miles across the ground!

The winning time this year? First day (120miles and 15,600' of climbing) just 6hrs. Thats an average of ~20mph! Second day: (only 86 miles with just 13,600' of climbing) in 4 1/2 hrs. That was 19.1mph average speed. 

Try that on your next Death Ride or double century....

Don Hanson


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## Dr_John

> but having finished EC twice in somewhat competitive times


Wow! Nice job on the 4th place finish this year Mike. :thumbsup: Somewhat competitive? You're too modest.


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## Fixed

*speeds*



Gnarly 928 said:


> I'd have to go with the Everest Challenge race in the Owens Valley. As the toughest "normal ride".
> The Furnace Creek 508 is not open and it takes a bunch of "special" requirements to enter...Support crews, pre-qualification,etc. (and some big balls to contemplate that long in the saddle.)
> 
> The Everest Challenge, on the other hand, is ridden, by the competative people, like a pair of back to back one-day classics....There are pelotons, attacks, strategy and even some team tactics involved in racing EC...It all takes place in thin air and the climbs are relentless.. Try ~5 1/2 miles straight up and a bit over 200 miles across the ground!
> 
> The winning time this year? First day (120miles and 15,600' of climbing) just 6hrs. Thats an average of ~20mph! Second day: (only 86 miles with just 13,600' of climbing) in 4 1/2 hrs. That was 19.1mph average speed.
> 
> Try that on your next Death Ride or double century....
> 
> Don Hanson


The winning time for FC 508 this year was 19 mph. Absolutely incredible. The winner afterward told me that he also does a 52 min. 40k. 

Getting into the 508 isn't that difficult. Have to register well in advance, and it is limited, but it's not like 4,000 people are trying. You do have to have a crew car, but that's not a huge deal.


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## AMike

Gnarly 928 said:


> The winning time this year? First day (120miles and 15,600' of climbing) just 6hrs. Thats an average of ~20mph! Second day: (only 86 miles with just 13,600' of climbing) in 4 1/2 hrs. That was 19.1mph average speed.


Not to take anything from the really fast guys, but the timing finishes are significantly short of the full day's ride. First day is about 98 miles and second is ~65 miles, making for about 16 and 14.5 mph. Still darned fast. They lit up the first climb at a pace I can only hold for half an hour and I assume they kept it up...


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## wipeout

Fixed said:


> The winning time for FC 508 this year was 19 mph. Absolutely incredible. The winner afterward told me that he also does a 52 min. 40k.
> 
> Getting into the 508 isn't that difficult. Have to register well in advance, and it is limited, but it's not like 4,000 people are trying. You do have to have a crew car, but that's not a huge deal.


Lots of people set PR's this year at FC508 - The first 200 miles had super tailwinds that never really materialized into headwinds later on. I was supposed to race in it this year but was hit by a car 4 weeks before the start...


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## wipeout

Gnarly 928 said:


> The Furnace Creek 508 is not open and it takes a bunch of "special" requirements to enter...Support crews, pre-qualification,etc. (and some big balls to contemplate that long in the saddle.)


Wrong... It is open registration...


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## Fixed

*close*



wipeout said:


> Wrong... It is open registration...


Close, but not completely. I officiated this year and one other year, and have raced it three times. Help revise the rules each year, too. From the news letter:



> APPLYING FOR THE 2009 FURNACE CREEK 508
> 
> The invitational format we utilized at Furnace Creek 508 this year (as opposed to the first come, first served format we used in the past) was a tremendous success, as the record high finishing rate attests!
> 
> This year we took applications from April 8 through April 22, then announced the race field a few weeks later. Some athletes have requested to be admitted to the race earlier in the year, such as in January, because they need that much advance notice to book their vacation time (and their crew's vacation time). Others would prefer to be admitted to the race later in the year, when they have a better feel for whether they will be physically ready to compete. Obviously, these are mutually opposing needs.
> 
> As such, in 2009 and presumably beyond, we will have EARLY ENTRY and LATE ENTRY application periods for Furnace Creek 508. On Monday, January 5, the two-week-long EARLY ENTRY Application period will open for the 2009 Furnace Creek 508. (Application will become available on-line. We will accept up to 40 soloists and 20 teams during this period.)
> 
> Then, on Monday, June 1, the ten-day-long LATE ENTRY application period will open for the 2009 Furnace Creek 508. (Application will become available on-line. We will accept enough applicants to fill the field with up to a total of approximately 90 soloists and 50 teams during this period.) All the details are outlined on the AdventureCORPS Calendar:
> 
> http://www.adventurecorps.com/news/calendar.html
> 
> As well as on the 508 website:
> 
> http://www.the508.com


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## Fixed

*extreme wind*



wipeout said:


> Lots of people set PR's this year at FC508 - The first 200 miles had super tailwinds that never really materialized into headwinds later on. I was supposed to race in it this year but was hit by a car 4 weeks before the start...


I was there officiating this year. Dozens of people were coming through 200 miles around 9-10 hours. Incredible. Last year I was in the top 10, same as back in 2001, at around 11:30 for 200 miles. Riders were saying they were bored. I pace one team rider going 35 mph up hill. Standing outside the car in Panamint Valley, I had to brace myself like standing on a surf board facing into the wind (which was a direct tail wind most of the first 200 miles) to keep from being blown over. The wind would nearly rip the doors off the car when you opened them. An incredible number of people made it up Townes Pass in daylight, and then with great finishing times. Lowest drop out rate ever.


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## Fixed

*long rides*



AMike said:


> Maybe it's familiarity, but having finished EC twice in somewhat competitive times, I can't even begin to imagine how tough 600km brevets or the 508 are. Completely different leagues IMO. My rear gets sore just thinking about riding that much in one go.


Worst thing about really long rides like the 508 is not your butt -- it's feeling like you need to throw up for over 24 hours straight. Eating 250 calories every single hour for that long makes a mess of your digestive tract.


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## RedRex

Devil Mountain double and Terrible Two are both tough enough that we call The Death Ride "a short training ride". 

I would vote FC508 or the longer Brevets. Also the Davis 24 hour Time Trial but hardly anyone knows about that one.


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## old5ten

having done the TT, DMD, and alta alpina challenge test ride i would say that alta alpina has the potential to be the hardest of the hard doubles: with optimal conditions it took significantly longer than either the DMD or TT with poor conditions. i rode the TT in 2006 (a fairly hot year and my first double) and finished in about 14.5 hours. rode it again in 2007 (excellent conditions) in 13.3 hours. rode DMD for the first time in 2007 (horribly hot conditions, over 90 degrees for most of the day) and finished in 15.3 hours (that includes resting for 5 or so minutes every mile going up the steep part of hamilton and walking most of sierra). the alta alpina challenge took a bit over 17 hours in perfect conditions (i was definitely not in the greatest shape and rested for a long time at the last stop).

of the three rides i would have to say the TT is the 'easiest' (it is a pretty darn hard ride) - it does have the most significant grades (sustained 10-12% average on the wall and ft. ross), but has less overall climbing, and the hot part (while very hot) doesn't last that long (mostly coming down from the geysers, lunch, and skaags). that's about 3-4 hours worth of heat, then you have the coast (usually cool and with a tailwind), ft. ross is nicely shaded, and after black mountain the challenging part of the ride is over. i've incorporated much of the 2nd half of the TT into a fun, but challenging permanent populaire called the sweet terrible one.

DMD (2007) was the most physically taxing ride i've ever done (and that includes limping through the davis 600k brevet the following week). it's the only ride where i've ever had to get off the bike and walk (up sierra at 5:30 in the afternoon, still well over 90 degrees). it was *significantly* harder than the TT in 2006.

the alta alpina challenge was hard and has the potential to be much harder than DMD because of the altitude. i imagine the alta alpina challenge with 2007 DMD conditions. extremely hot all day with no place to hide. exposed pretty much all the time (some shade on ebbetts, but that's it). much of the significant climbing comes after lunch. this isn't the deathride - monitor comes at the end and it kicks some serious butt because both sides are continuous slogs. 



norcalscot said:


> For toughest Double I'd have to say it's a toss up between Devil Mountain and theTerrible Two. Devil Mountain has more climbing (18,600 feet), but the Terrible Two (16,500 feet) typically has higher temps. I did the new Alta Alpina double this June, which has over 20,500 feet of climbing, but to be honest it wasn't as difficult as either DMD or the TT - the grades are generally easier and the temps a bit cooler.


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