# ventolin hfa



## swl (Dec 11, 2009)

do you guys think albuterol provide a competitive advantage for non-asthmatic athletes?


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

Yes I do. It opens your airways so that you can get more air into your lungs.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

swl said:


> do you guys think albuterol provide a competitive advantage for non-asthmatic athletes?


Why do you ask?


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

Coolhand said:


> Why do you ask?


That's what I was thinking too. I use it just because I don't want to die.


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2010)

I've wondered about this, too. I have exercise-induced asthma and take Advair daily and Ventolin as needed. If I take my Advair as prescribed and 4 puffs of Ventolin (not all at once) prior to an event, I stand a chance of not having an asthma attack. But I've wondered if others think I'm trying to get an edge when I'm puffing on my inhaler before a race. Of course, all they would have to do is watch my first couple of laps to see that it doesn't enhance my performance.


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

foothillsbass said:


> I've wondered about this, too. I have exercise-induced asthma and take Advair daily and Ventolin as needed. If I take my Advair as prescribed and 4 puffs of Ventolin (not all at once) prior to an event, I stand a chance of not having an asthma attack. But I've wondered if others think I'm trying to get an edge when I'm puffing on my inhaler before a race. Of course, all they would have to do is watch my first couple of laps to see that it doesn't enhance my performance.


I would assume that if someone pulls out an inhaler during a race that they have some use for it. Ventolin doesn't really make you feel great and it's pretty obvious when you sling it out and take a puff. Either you need it or you're an idiot. My biggest concern is that since it is on the doping list I probably need a note (yeah like in school  ) to keep from getting banned from the sport. Knowing my luck I would be the only Cat 5 getting banned.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Albuterol will not cause significant brochodilation if there isn't broncoconstriction and it won't be very long lasting. Any "rush" that's felt is typically from the Beta1 stimulation in the heart.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

waldo425 said:


> I would assume that if someone pulls out an inhaler during a race that they have some use for it. Ventolin doesn't really make you feel great and it's pretty obvious when you sling it out and take a puff. Either you need it or you're an idiot. My biggest concern is that since it is on the doping list I probably need a note (yeah like in school  ) to keep from getting banned from the sport. Knowing my luck I would be the only Cat 5 getting banned.


Probably should put in a for a TUE- might be cool to post the process here as you do it.


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

Coolhand said:


> Probably should put in a for a TUE- might be cool to post the process here as you do it.


Thank you for that. I'm checking USADA about it now. Ill keep everyone posted. This sounds confusing to me. Do I need to apply to USADA/ USAC/ have race license. I don't have one yet since I plan to race track which starts in July.

Edit: Found the forms. 


Making my own thread. Don't want to hyjack any threads here.


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## doogiepa (Dec 2, 2008)

I doubt it will help a non-asthmatic.

Generally your V02 max is limited by your cardiac output, not your ventilation...unless you have major lung disease to begin with.

ps extra credit if you know what "hfa" stands for - I believe it is "hydrofluoroalkane" which is the ozone-friendly propellant that replaced cfc's (chlorofluorocarbons)


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## tricycletalent (Apr 2, 2005)

Yes, albuterol (salbutamol INN name) does give you an advantage beyond opening your airways, it has anabolic properties. Iban Mayo was caught using it, blocking his chances of a comeback. Advair contains a glucocorticoid (fluticasone) and another bronchodilator similar to albuterol. Glucocorticoids are efficient for doping if you take the as pills or by injection, but I have no idea if you can get systemic effect of glucocorticoids by inhaling. I also don't know if salmeterol has the same anabolic properties as albuterol, and who cares anyway. It would be crazy for an asthmatic not to take these substances. If you really care for doping, why stick to asthma inhalers? So you can cough up (pun intended) a nice, believable excuse?


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## doogiepa (Dec 2, 2008)

tricycletalent said:


> Yes, albuterol (salbutamol INN name) does give you an advantage beyond opening your airways, it has anabolic properties. Iban Mayo was caught using it, blocking his chances of a comeback. Advair contains a glucocorticoid (fluticasone) and another bronchodilator similar to albuterol. Glucocorticoids are efficient for doping if you take the as pills or by injection, but I have no idea if you can get systemic effect of glucocorticoids by inhaling. I also don't know if salmeterol has the same anabolic properties as albuterol, and who cares anyway. It would be crazy for an asthmatic not to take these substances. If you really care for doping, why stick to asthma inhalers? So you can cough up (pun intended) a nice, believable excuse?



I disagree with most of the above. First of all, I have NEVER heard that any bronchodilator will give you an advantage unless you have an underlying lung condition (eg asthma). I don't believe it has any "anabolic" properties whatsoever. Maybe might help recovery a smidge if you really work hard in an area with lots of air pollution, maybe? But that's really a stretch.

Similarly, glucocorticoids, which are CATABOLIC steroids, not ANABOLIC steroids, probably give NO benefit either, in athletic performance. If anything, they break down muscle and give you a disadvantage!!


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## tricycletalent (Apr 2, 2005)

doogiepa said:


> I disagree with most of the above. First of all, I have NEVER heard that any bronchodilator will give you an advantage unless you have an underlying lung condition (eg asthma). I don't believe it has any "anabolic" properties whatsoever. Maybe might help recovery a smidge if you really work hard in an area with lots of air pollution, maybe? But that's really a stretch.
> 
> Similarly, glucocorticoids, which are CATABOLIC steroids, not ANABOLIC steroids, probably give NO benefit either, in athletic performance. If anything, they break down muscle and give you a disadvantage!!


OK, so u disagree. It's not my opinion. It is what I sniffed out of medline back in the days when Mayo got caught. (sucked)

Yeah, glucocorticoids are catabolic steroids.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Albuterol is NOT salmeterol. Neither albuterol or salmeterol are steroids. They can be combined with steroids and this is done commonly, but that does not make the beta 2 agonist a steroid in any way, shape, or form.


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## tricycletalent (Apr 2, 2005)

spade2you said:


> Albuterol is NOT salmeterol. Neither albuterol or salmeterol are steroids. They can be combined with steroids and this is done commonly, but that does not make the beta 2 agonist a steroid in any way, shape, or form.


No, albuterol is NOT salmeterol, it is sal_butamol_. You are completely right, why you are enlightening us on this issue, where there was no initial confusion, is beyond me. 

Also, nobody said albuterol was a steroid. It has anabolic properties, causing muscle mass increase:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...ed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=23
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...ed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=24

Also mentioned here: 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...ed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=20

Also increases muscle mass in those with parkinson:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...ed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=15

As for the glucocorticoid stuff, maybe I should mention that the point isn't building muscle mass, but using every building block in the human body to increase production of blood glucose? Which makes it pretty obvious why Jörg Jacksche and others would use recombinant CRH. But hey, wtf do I know, right.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

tricycletalent said:


> No, albuterol is NOT salmeterol, it is sal_butamol_. You are completely right, why you are enlightening us on this issue, where there was no initial confusion, is beyond me.
> 
> Also, nobody said albuterol was a steroid. It has anabolic properties, causing muscle mass increase:
> 
> ...


My bad, my peepers saw Salmeterol. 

As for the pub med studies, they're just studies of minimal value. 

....but what do I know, I only deal with meds for a living.


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## tricycletalent (Apr 2, 2005)

spade2you said:


> ...I only deal with meds for a living.


So do I.

Doesn't make me an expert of anything. I don't use that as an argument. The studies + the fact that athletes use em, is my argument that anabolic effects of ventolin hfa can't be overlooked. 

It would be better with some large scale studies with double placebo, and real athletes instead of rats, and parkinson-elderly ppl, ur so rite about that. :thumbsup:


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

tricycletalent said:


> So do I.
> 
> Doesn't make me an expert of anything. I don't use that as an argument. The studies + the fact that athletes use em, is my argument that anabolic effects of ventolin hfa can't be overlooked.
> 
> It would be better with some large scale studies with double placebo, and real athletes instead of rats, and parkinson-elderly ppl, ur so rite about that. :thumbsup:


The end result seems similar to anabolic, but it's a catacholamine pathway.


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