# Steel road bike for around $3000?



## azpeterb (Jun 1, 2006)

I tried doing a few searches here and couldn't quite find what I'm looking for, so I'm posting this. I'm in the market for a steel road bike with a budget of around $3000 (give or take $500). I have a Gunnar Hot Dog (predecessor to the Roadie) now but I've had it for 11 years and want a new one to add to my meager stable of bikes (actually, adding one would double my stable's population). I really want to get a bike that is going to last a long time, so no flimsy tubing or flyweight components. I'm not obsessed with shaving a few grams here and there....my keister could lose about 5 pounds so the miniscule difference in weight between Dura Ace and Ultegra isn't worth the bucks IMO. Preferably a steel frame, maybe Ultegra or Chorus components, sturdy wheels that aren't going to need truing every 500 miles. I've never gone with SRAM but would consider it...I'm open minded. I'm 5'10" tall, about 167 pounds (but trying to lose about 5 pounds after missing a few months of riding due to a few bone fractures here and there....cars will do that when they hit you, you know). I usually put in around 6000 miles a year, to give you an idea of my mileage. I don't race but consider myself a fairly intense recreational rider, riding on pretty smooth roads. As far as brands, I am not concerned about the name. I don't want to pay inflated prices for a more widely recognized name, so let me know about some of the "little guys" that make a good steel road bike that won't break the bank. A nifty Orbea or Colnago would be swell, but I don't think my price range is going to land me one of their steeds. No, tell me about the smaller makes, the ones that will give me what I'm looking for. Looking forward to seeing what you guys can come up with...


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## pdh777 (Oct 7, 2005)

At your weight you don't have to worry about the steel material used in the frame - so its pretty much open season for you as far as the frame goes.

You've been around here long enough to know who the popular builders are - Strong, Kirk, Waterford and many more. Maybe you could consider a smaller builder closer to where you live - which is?


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## Look75 (Apr 10, 2011)

azpeterb said:


> I tried doing a few searches here and couldn't quite find what I'm looking for, so I'm posting this. I'm in the market for a steel road bike with a budget of around $3000 (give or take $500). I have a Gunnar Hot Dog (predecessor to the Roadie) now but I've had it for 11 years and want a new one to add to my meager stable of bikes (actually, adding one would double my stable's population). I really want to get a bike that is going to last a long time, so no flimsy tubing or flyweight components. I'm not obsessed with shaving a few grams here and there....my keister could lose about 5 pounds so the miniscule difference in weight between Dura Ace and Ultegra isn't worth the bucks IMO. Preferably a steel frame, maybe Ultegra or Chorus components, sturdy wheels that aren't going to need truing every 500 miles. I've never gone with SRAM but would consider it...I'm open minded. I'm 5'10" tall, about 167 pounds (but trying to lose about 5 pounds after missing a few months of riding due to a few bone fractures here and there....cars will do that when they hit you, you know). I usually put in around 6000 miles a year, to give you an idea of my mileage. I don't race but consider myself a fairly intense recreational rider, riding on pretty smooth roads. As far as brands, I am not concerned about the name. I don't want to pay inflated prices for a more widely recognized name, so let me know about some of the "little guys" that make a good steel road bike that won't break the bank. A nifty Orbea or Colnago would be swell, but I don't think my price range is going to land me one of their steeds. No, tell me about the smaller makes, the ones that will give me what I'm looking for. Looking forward to seeing what you guys can come up with...



Hey Azpeterb,

My advice would be to save about 1K - 2k. Get a steel touring bike. One of these would do just fine, I think:

1. Raleigh - Sojourn

2. Raleigh - Record Ace ( a typical old styled steel lugged road bike__JUST BEAUTIFUL!)

3. Marin - Four Corners

4. Jamis - Aurora ( The Coda ain't that bad either...)

5. Surly - LHT

6. Fugi - Touring

Good Luck! :thumbsup: 

PS. 

Of course with a 3K budget, you might want to go with WATERFORD...


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## azpeterb (Jun 1, 2006)

pdh777 said:


> At your weight you don't have to worry about the steel material used in the frame - so its pretty much open season for you as far as the frame goes.
> 
> You've been around here long enough to know who the popular builders are - Strong, Kirk, Waterford and many more. Maybe you could consider a smaller builder closer to where you live - which is?


I live in Tucson, AZ. There's a couple pretty good custom builders here (Gilmour and Bohemian Bicycles) but those are way out of my price range. There are quite a few bike shops here so it wouldn't be hard for one of them to order from a company that they deal with. I just don't want to end up with a carbon frame made by 12 y.o.'s in China....I want something that's going to last at least 10 years or so. For $3000 I'll have to go with a stock model of some sort. I have a Gunnar which is sort of a branch of Waterford....any difference between the two?


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

Why not go back to Gunnar?

Or call Doug Curtlo? He's still doing custom road frames for less than $1000.


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## azpeterb (Jun 1, 2006)

terry b said:


> Why not go back to Gunnar?
> 
> Or call Doug Curtlo? He's still doing custom road frames for less than $1000.


I actually thought about going back to Gunnar. I think I could find a Roadie out there with Ultegra for about my price range. Just wanted to see what else I might want to take a look at. I do love the Gunnar though....maybe that's the answer to my quest.


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

Either of these two choices will put you within your budget.

I HIGHLY recommend Paul Sadoff of Rock Lobster Cycles. I purchased a fully rigid mountain bike frame/fork from him last year. Since I live on the opposite coast, my contact with him was strictly e-mail and phone calls, versus what some people think is necessary-an in-person visit.

He got all the details right. He was a pleasure to deal with. He delivered on time and his leadtimes are in months, not years. The frame rides straight. His prices are incredibly low, and I've told him so! Read both his blogs and see what you think: What's Up In Santa Cruz, and Can't We Just Get Along?

PM me if you want more info; I can't say enough good things about my experience.

The other builder is Tony Maietta. I have a frame on order from him right now. I've followed his developing business and like what I see. He paints his frames as well, if you like that degree of customization. His prices are very reasonable, too.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

azpeterb said:


> I actually thought about going back to Gunnar. I think I could find a Roadie out there with Ultegra for about my price range. Just wanted to see what else I might want to take a look at. I do love the Gunnar though....maybe that's the answer to my quest.


 I think a Gunnar in one of their special colors is the ticket. In my mind, best frame for the money in that pricerange, certainly nicer than the less expensive foreign made low price options. Roadie OS2 plus a premium Ultegra build kit from a place like Excel would bring you in $350 under budget. If you got brave and went with Centaur, you're getting a full package for $2300 or Chorus for $2600.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Check out Hunter Cycles also. He builds some beautiful stuff.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

Unless you want to do loaded touring, don't buy a bike designed for loaded touring.

With reasonably priced components and wheels, $3000 can put you on a* custom *from Waterford and quite a few others. For steel, I like lugs. For stainless steel, lugs or fillet brazing. If you go to one of the smaller builders you can do stainless on that budget.

The secret to keeping the build cost down is using somewhat conservative wheels, like 32 hole Open Pros on Shimano hubs. Then you have $2200 or so to spend on the frame.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

Kontact said:


> Unless you want to do loaded touring, don't buy a bike designed for loaded touring.
> 
> With reasonably priced components and wheels, $3000 can put you on a* custom *from Waterford and quite a few others. For steel, I like lugs. For stainless steel, lugs or fillet brazing. If you go to one of the smaller builders you can do stainless on that budget.
> 
> The secret to keeping the build cost down is using somewhat conservative wheels, like 32 hole Open Pros on Shimano hubs. Then you have $2200 or so to spend on the frame.


Please run down how you spend $2200 on a frame and get pedals, wheels, headset, saddle, bar, full drivetrain and stem and still come under $3000. With Ultegra?


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

terry b said:


> Please run down how you spend $2200 on a frame and get pedals, wheels, headset, saddle, bar, full drivetrain and stem and still come under $3000. With Ultegra?


Where did I say with Ultegra?

The custom frames I was speaking about run from sub $1000 TET bikes to a high of $2200. The OP indicated that he was open to more than just Ultegra and Chorus, so it really just depends what deals are available and where he decides to cut corners to make budget. He can go full Chorus on a less expensive custom, or use an FSA/SRAM take off group to make a higher price frame fit.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

Kontact said:


> Where did I say with Ultegra?
> 
> The custom frames I was speaking about run from sub $1000 TET bikes to a high of $2200. The OP indicated that he was open to more than just Ultegra and Chorus, so it really just depends what deals are available and where he decides to cut corners to make budget. He can go full Chorus on a less expensive custom, or use an FSA/SRAM take off group to make a higher price frame fit.


I was specifically asking how you can spend $2200 on a frame and come in under $3000. To your point. Doesn't have to be Ultregra, but that was what he was talking about. Cutting corners is fine, but $800 isn't a lot for a whole kit. Wheels and all.


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## pdh777 (Oct 7, 2005)

Agree with Terry's Gunnar option - did not realize the OP was willing to visit that builder again. You can get an excellent Roadie equipped with high end drive train as noted above. 

You can get great deals on Groups and Wheels from the Euro suppliers.

PS - you may want to consider the Waterford paint option for the Gunnar if you go that route.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

terry b said:


> I was specifically asking how you can spend $2200 on a frame and come in under $3000. To your point. Doesn't have to be Ultregra, but that was what he was talking about. Cutting corners is fine, but $800 isn't a lot for a whole kit. Wheels and all.


You can't, I didn't suggest you could, so I don't know why you're asking me.

But for the sake of argument, here's a whole Ultegra/mix bike for $800:
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/corvus_al_xi.htm

Sell the frame, fork, brakes and crank, buy Ulegra crank and calipers with the proceeds. 


I really don't want to argue about this with you. The point of my post was that a $3000 budget can be spent in a lot of different ways. That's all.


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## azpeterb (Jun 1, 2006)

pdh777 said:


> Agree with Terry's Gunnar option - did not realize the OP was willing to visit that builder again. You can get an excellent Roadie equipped with high end drive train as noted above.
> 
> You can get great deals on Groups and Wheels from the Euro suppliers.
> 
> PS - you may want to consider the Waterford paint option for the Gunnar if you go that route.


Are you referring to the criticism that Gunnar paint jobs tend to chip easily? I had heard that complaint from others and have experienced it myself with my old Hot Dog frame. I'm not sure if they chip any easier than other brands, but when you hear this from multiple sources it does make you wonder.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

azpeterb said:


> Are you referring to the criticism that Gunnar paint jobs tend to chip easily? I had heard that complaint from others and have experienced it myself with my old Hot Dog frame. I'm not sure if they chip any easier than other brands, but when you hear this from multiple sources it does make you wonder.


If you are going to start adding options to a Gunnar, why not just go up to $1400 Waterford and get a custom built frame and paint?


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

Kontact said:


> The secret to keeping the build cost down is using somewhat conservative wheels, like 32 hole Open Pros on Shimano hubs. Then you have $2200 or so to spend on the frame..


I guess I misunderstood this, sorry.


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## Herbie (Nov 12, 2010)

take a look at GVH cycles. I bought a colnago from Tom a couple of years ago. He was very good to work with


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## pdh777 (Oct 7, 2005)

> If you are going to start adding options to a Gunnar, why not just go up to $1400 Waterford and get a custom built frame and paint?


Yes - however if you go to the Waterford job, I beleive it is an extra coat of the paint you choose and then extra clear coat over that. 

Plus you can get a custom Roadie for about $1150.00 - one of the best values out there.

Let us know what you decide.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

Some more names to consider:
http://forums.serotta.com/showthread.php?t=90168


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

PeterB, 
FORGET about all these guys mentioned previously.

This> http://www.pelizzoliworld.com/



Personally, I would take a Giovanni Pelizolli frame, the mastermind of Ciocc. You can get a frameset (steel fork) for about a $1000. What other builder of his caliber and reputation can come close?

But if a Pelizolli isn't your thing, any one of the builders mentioned will build you a great frame. Consider NOS too. A shop in Denver had 3 Waterford R11s to choose from (two 54cm and one 55cm)for $1200 f/f. Oh and they also had a blue 56cm Mondonico Diamond Extra for $1600 f/f. This was over almost two years ago so they may have moved them but I know shops often keep these NOS on their shelves forever. At $3000 for a complete, well-equiped steel bike, it is very doable if you consider other avenues. Good luck!


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## oneslowmofo (Feb 29, 2004)

I bought my waterford r33 for 1100 NOS (got lucky it was my size), added a new dura ace kit 7900 for 1200 and added some used fulcrum racing 1 wheels for $700. Add another $400 for the saddle, post, stem and bars I got pretty darn close to 3000 for a fully built bike. I reckon you could do something similar for 3000 with ultegra. You just have to scour the web for good deals.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

oneslowmofo said:


> I bought my waterford r33 for 1100 NOS (got lucky it was my size), added a new dura ace kit 7900 for 1200 and added some used fulcrum racing 1 wheels for $700. Add another $400 for the saddle, post, stem and bars I got pretty darn close to 3000 for a fully built bike. I reckon you could do something similar for 3000 with ultegra. You just have to scour the web for good deals.


Hey brutha Trojan! That is a nice Waterford ya gots. Were you always a Shimano guy? I thought your other bikes had Campy 10. 

Anyhow, where did you find your R33? $1100 for that was a great deal! Now that I think about it, the Waterfords in Denver may have been 1100s (if they had that number to begin with)? Are the "R" models welded? Because these frames in Denver were lugged. 

There are a lot of bubbas that have a lot of nice bikes but IMO, you had the best of the best. Kind of like Jack B on the Serotta forum and my good buddy Nate R who goes by Coloclimber on WWs forum. They are like you in that they usually only keep one or two bikes around at a time, unlike the most of us hoarders.


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## Midgetman (May 4, 2010)

Check out www.duell.nl they make really nice no fuss steel frames.


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## Look75 (Apr 10, 2011)

Alright! Here's the deal:

Raleigh Record Ace - All White - All Ultegra - In lugged Reynolds 520 Butted ChroMoly

Just $1800

Merry Xmas! :thumbsup:

PS.

The Old Bike Shop

Hermosa Beach, CA. Email: [email protected]


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

Look75 said:


> Alright! Here's the deal:
> 
> Raleigh Record Ace - All White - All Ultegra - In lugged Reynolds 520 Butted ChroMoly
> 
> ...


Kind of boring though. A Raleigh? Yep, boring.
For a 3K budget you are nuts not to go custom and get that bike instead.


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## Look75 (Apr 10, 2011)

tihsepa said:


> Kind of boring though. A Raleigh? Yep, boring.
> For a 3K budget you are nuts not to go custom and get that bike instead.



Raleigh has turned over a new leaf. It started with the debut of the steel version of the Grand Prix in 2009. The Grand Prix has the same identical geometry as the Record Ace without the Ultegra Components. I hear that it's a nice riding bike. If it's a nice riding bike with Tiagra, just imagine what the ride would be like with Ultegra.

Lugged 520 ChroMoly Steel + Ultegra = A Nice N Cool Ride ( Sounds Quite Exciting To Me!)


The New Record Ace Complete With Ultegra! 

View attachment 230029



Nice...Nice...Very Nice!


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## azpeterb (Jun 1, 2006)

Ride-Fly said:


> PeterB,
> FORGET about all these guys mentioned previously.
> 
> This> http://www.pelizzoliworld.com/
> ...


Damn, those are some fine steel frames! Beautiful craftsmanship....the lugs, the chrome touches....reminds me of when I was a teen in the 80's, wishing I could have one of those awesome Italian bikes. I might have to look into this one too.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

azpeterb said:


> Damn, those are some fine steel frames! Beautiful craftsmanship....the lugs, the chrome touches....reminds me of when I was a teen in the 80's, wishing I could have one of those awesome Italian bikes. I might have to look into this one too.


IMHO, you would be crazy to pick any other builder at this price range. UNLESS you found a NOS from the likes of DeRosa, Colnago, etc.

Get the Pelizolli, pick up an Athena group from Shiny bikes and then you have about $1000 left to select the wheels, pedals, and cockpit components.


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## GirchyGirchy (Feb 12, 2004)

Jamis Eclipse - around your price and with Reynolds 853 frame and Ultegra. If you wanna go cheaper, the Quest is 631 with an Ultegra/105 mix. 

I have two steel Jamis road bikes, a 7-year-old Ventura and a new Aurora, both 520. Love 'em.


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## azpeterb (Jun 1, 2006)

Ride-Fly said:


> IMHO, you would be crazy to pick any other builder at this price range. UNLESS you found a NOS from the likes of DeRosa, Colnago, etc.
> 
> Get the Pelizolli, pick up an Athena group from Shiny bikes and then you have about $1000 left to select the wheels, pedals, and cockpit components.


As a matter of fact I just bought a new set of wheels in December so I could transfer them to the new bike and that would save me a chunk. I should have plenty of money for a Chorus groupo, and maybe I could find a 2010 set at a reduced price....I'm certainly not above doing that! I'm thinking I can get this done for well under $3000.

Of course, that's just the price of the bike. I might need some new cleats, a couple team kits....


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## Lotophage (Feb 19, 2011)

terry b said:


> Please run down how you spend $2200 on a frame and get pedals, wheels, headset, saddle, bar, full drivetrain and stem and still come under $3000. With Ultegra?


If you are careful and if you aren't in a hurry, you'd be amazed at how cheap you can build a bike... You won't have brand-new parts, but who cares about that? 

Built my custom for just under 3k, frame fork and all parts...

Fast, cheap, new, pick 2...


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## Jerry-rigged (Jul 24, 2009)

IMHO, the best "cheap" steel would be another Gunner. About a grand for the frame leaves you room to get a nice build and stay under your $3000 limit. At the Gunner price, most folks want to sell you a 4130 or 531 equivalent frameset. Gunner gives you an over-sized True Temper tube that is similar to 853 - Stronger, lighter. 

For a bit more, Personally I would love a lugged Waterford RS-22 ($1800 frame), but that would make the rest of the build tight for Ultegra, but maybe do-able for 105/Rival. Currently I am riding a Waterford RS-14 and loving it. I got it NOS at a discount (while shopping for a Gunner) The RS has geometry about 1/2 way between the Rodie and Sport, and has basically the same construction as the Gunner (for an extra $600). 

I looked into a bunch of other Steel bikes, and most of the not-off-the-rack bikes started at about $4k, complete (this was two years ago). Bigger names were higher. One option I did not find, was a local frame builder. I though it would be cool to have a truly "local" bike, but for some reason, H-town is short on frame and wheel builders...

Jerry


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*Waterford pricing*



Jerry-rigged said:


> IMHO, the best "cheap" steel would be another Gunner. About a grand for the frame leaves you room to get a nice build and stay under your $3000 limit. At the Gunner price, most folks want to sell you a 4130 or 531 equivalent frameset. Gunner gives you an over-sized True Temper tube that is similar to 853 - Stronger, lighter.
> 
> For a bit more, Personally I would love a lugged Waterford RS-22 ($1800 frame), but that would make the rest of the build tight for Ultegra, but maybe do-able for 105/Rival. Currently I am riding a Waterford RS-14 and loving it. I got it NOS at a discount (while shopping for a Gunner) The RS has geometry about 1/2 way between the Rodie and Sport, and has basically the same construction as the Gunner (for an extra $600).
> 
> ...


The RS series starts at 2 grand and goes up, at least that is what the Waterford site has.


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## oneslowmofo (Feb 29, 2004)

Ride-Fly said:


> Hey brutha Trojan! That is a nice Waterford ya gots. Were you always a Shimano guy? I thought your other bikes had Campy 10.
> 
> Anyhow, where did you find your R33? $1100 for that was a great deal! Now that I think about it, the Waterfords in Denver may have been 1100s (if they had that number to begin with)? Are the "R" models welded? Because these frames in Denver were lugged.
> 
> There are a lot of bubbas that have a lot of nice bikes but IMO, you had the best of the best. Kind of like Jack B on the Serotta forum and my good buddy Nate R who goes by Coloclimber on WWs forum. They are like you in that they usually only keep one or two bikes around at a time, unlike the most of us hoarders.


Hey there - yes, I ran campy for years but thought I would try Dura Ace 7900 on the Waterford. While I really like it, I prefer campy. I'm actually building a Merckx Team SC (scandium) rig right now with campy record 9 speed (had the parts). So I will have both in the garage to satisfy the urge. And you're right, I usually try to keep two road bikes in the rotation. When I look through the picture files of all of the bikes I've had, I do feel a bit guilty!

BTW - the Waterford R33 was actually on this forum's classified and didn't sell, then went to flea-bay where I picked it up. Fortunately it was a local sale so I could check it out before buying.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

Jerry-rigged said:


> IMHO, the best "cheap" steel would be another Gunner. About a grand for the frame leaves you room to get a nice build and stay under your $3000 limit. At the Gunner price, most folks want to sell you a 4130 or 531 equivalent frameset. Gunner gives you an over-sized True Temper tube that is similar to 853 - Stronger, lighter.
> 
> For a bit more, Personally I would love a lugged Waterford RS-22 ($1800 frame), but that would make the rest of the build tight for Ultegra, but maybe do-able for 105/Rival. Currently I am riding a Waterford RS-14 and loving it. I got it NOS at a discount (while shopping for a Gunner) The RS has geometry about 1/2 way between the Rodie and Sport, and has basically the same construction as the Gunner (for an extra $600).
> 
> ...


Actually, people like TET will do a Gunnar type frame in 853 or the like with custom geometry for the price of a stock Gunnar. Even if you don't need custom geometry, it is nice to be able to choose the color and a level top tube without paying Gunnar's custom fees.


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## PRB (Jun 15, 2002)

Ride-Fly said:


> PeterB,
> FORGET about all these guys mentioned previously.
> 
> This> http://www.pelizzoliworld.com/
> ...


 I'm biased but I'd have to give a huge +1 to that.


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## Look75 (Apr 10, 2011)

Of course for a few bucks more, you could always add a little bling bling to your life and style all the way with the WATERFORDS...

There's nothing like the finest things in life..but the finest things in life!

View attachment 230035


View attachment 230036


Oh the Waterford's Win Again, Hands Down Boy! :thumbsup:

PS.

Park the Camry... Jeffrey! Let's take the Lexus LS, instead! :yesnod:


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

I recently built up a steel bike for around $3000. 

1. Frame: Eddy Merckx Corsa 01 frame from ebay for $700. This was a repainted frame and it looks brand new. Came with a matched Reynolds Ouza Pro fork. 
2. Wheels: Custom set of Kinlin 270 rims and White Industries hubs from an outfit that posts here for $700. I mostly went with these because they were available in all silver and looked nice with the frame. I had the rear 3-crossed and the front radial laced. The wheels are fairly light (~ 1500 grams), but very sturdy. Add $100 for a set of Michelin Pro Race 3 tires and some latex tubes. 
3. Components: 2010 Campy Athena group for $750 from Ribble. Again, I went with this because it comes in silver instead of ther black/carbon finish everything is covered in these days. This was my first foray into Campy -- an interesting change from Shimano. 
4. Pedals: Time ATAC Carbon pedals for around $200. I know, mountian bike pedals -- not cool. Problem is that 95% of my riding is to work and back (34 mile round trip) and road pedals aren't great for commuting. 
5. Stem/Bar -- Zipp Carbon SL bar and Deda Newton stem -- both on sale from Excel for around $250
6. Saddle/post -- Selle Italia Flite (~ $100), my all time favorite saddle; Thomson Elite post in silver ( $100)
7. Bike shop build -- $180. I thought about doing it myself, but there's internal cable routing and cutting a fork (yikes), so I figured just pay someone to do it. Plus, my LBS does really nice work. 

Total -- $2980. I had fun slowely amassing all this stuff. The bike looks perfect and rides really nicely. I don't care about weight all that much, but the thing is pretty light for a steel bike.


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## Jerry-rigged (Jul 24, 2009)

Ride-Fly said:


> PeterB,
> FORGET about all these guys mentioned previously.
> 
> This> http://www.pelizzoliworld.com/
> ...


WOW, Nice!

You can get one of those for a grand? Again, WOW.


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## mav6162005 (Mar 17, 2009)

Go with a custom lugged bike, you keep yours for a while so why not? Cheers and good luck hunting..


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## Jerry-rigged (Jul 24, 2009)

ttug said:


> The RS series starts at 2 grand and goes up, at least that is what the Waterford site has.



Ok, after another look, your right... RS-22 frame is 1800, 22-series fork is another 350... so 2150 for F&F... and that is still before any polished lugs...


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*And*



Jerry-rigged said:


> Ok, after another look, your right... RS-22 frame is 1800, 22-series fork is another 350... so 2150 for F&F... and that is still before any polished lugs...


If you go to the next step, a full 953 frame, thats 3 grand to start.......BUT, they look OH SO VERY COOL


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*and a further few dollars more*



Look75 said:


> Of course for a few bucks more, you could always add a little bling bling to your life and style all the way with the WATERFORDS...
> 
> There's nothing like the finest things in life..but the finest things in life!
> 
> ...


Columbine or Hetchins


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## hawaiirace (Aug 4, 2003)

Check out Anthony Mezzatesta, He'll build you a nice frame within your budget...

www.mezzatestacustomcycles.com


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## unclefuzzy_ss (Nov 23, 2002)

Not to sound too shillish or anything, but I'll have a couple of the new Singular Osprey's coming in soon. Frame price is very reasonable, Under $750. Ride is very nice. Big tires fit easily. 28's and fenders, or 32's with out for more adventurous rides. 

<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5708735919/" title="Osprey by unclefuzzy_ss, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2623/5708735919_6df39d6424_b.jpg" width="1024" height="685" alt="Osprey"></a>

I can do full build kits too.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

unclefuzzy_ss said:


> Not to sound too shillish or anything, but I'll have a couple of the new Singular Osprey's coming in soon. Frame price is very reasonable, Under $750. Ride is very nice. Big tires fit easily. 28's and fenders, or 32's with out for more adventurous rides.
> 
> <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5708735919/" title="Osprey by unclefuzzy_ss, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2623/5708735919_6df39d6424_b.jpg" width="1024" height="685" alt="Osprey"></a>
> 
> I can do full build kits too.



Mmmm. There's just something aesthetically pleasing about skinny steel tubes, lugs, and flat fork crowns.

Winner. :thumbsup: 


(The only thing I kinda don't like is the crank. What is that, 105? Functional, but not teh prettiest IMO. I blame Shimano.)
.


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## Look75 (Apr 10, 2011)

ttug said:


> Columbine or Hetchins



OMG....Sleek, Crisp, and Well-Defined Lines!

Looks impeccably and exclusively divine!

PS.

The WATERFORDS might indeed take a lesson....


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## rward325 (Sep 22, 2008)

If your really patient I think my wife is about to kill me for buying the Pegoretti. I will leave a note for her with your name. My guess is she will sell it cheap to be rid of the evidence that I lived here. Heck, that's how I got!


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## unclefuzzy_ss (Nov 23, 2002)

SystemShock said:


> Mmmm. There's just something aesthetically pleasing about skinny steel tubes, lugs, and flat fork crowns.
> 
> Winner. :thumbsup:
> 
> ...



Thanks man. 

re: the cranks. Try Durace 7700 series. Best ones [at least the prettiest ATMO] made evar. These have just been used and loved is all.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

unclefuzzy_ss said:


> Thanks man.
> 
> re: the cranks. Try Durace 7700 series. Best ones [at least the prettiest ATMO] made evar. These have just been used and loved is all.


Oh, I feel bad for dissin' them then. 

Can we get some close-up pics of both them and the bike?
.


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## azpeterb (Jun 1, 2006)

I'm feeling the Pelizzoli. Superb Italian craftsmanship, an unbelievable value, that unmistakable panache that somehow combines flash and understatement at the same time. Memories from my youth in the 80's lusting after Ciocc and now Pelizzoli making frames under his own name. It speaks to me. It calls me. It is meant for me.


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

Sounds cool, Peter. Life is short, might as well get a rig that you really dig. :yesnod:
.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

azpeterb said:


> I'm feeling the Pelizzoli. Superb Italian craftsmanship, an unbelievable value, that unmistakable panache that somehow combines flash and understatement at the same time. Memories from my youth in the 80's lusting after Ciocc and now Pelizzoli making frames under his own name. It speaks to me. It calls me. It is meant for me.


GET IT DONE!!! 

What color you feeling? I like the white! Are you thinking Corsa GP or the GP Oro? In either case, I would take the white one. The Oro might be too bling for some but I'd hit it!


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## PRB (Jun 15, 2002)

Ride-Fly said:


> I would take the white one.


Red is the fastest color....


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## azpeterb (Jun 1, 2006)

Ride-Fly said:


> GET IT DONE!!!
> 
> What color you feeling? I like the white! Are you thinking Corsa GP or the GP Oro? In either case, I would take the white one. The Oro might be too bling for some but I'd hit it!


Probably the Corsa GP. I'm assuming that the Oro is out of my price range given all of the gold plating on it. And like PRB, I like the classic red color, just like the one in his photo.


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## arshak (Jun 13, 2005)

https://bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/images/gran_premio_red_xi_2100.jpg
$2k


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

arshak said:


> https://bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/images/gran_premio_red_xi_2100.jpg
> $2k


Why settle for sirloin when you can have filet mignon, i.e. custom?
.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

Black Mountain Cycles


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## dualpivot (Oct 25, 2009)

azpeterb said:


> No, tell me about the smaller makes, the ones that will give me what I'm looking for. Looking forward to seeing what you guys can come up with...


How about a Naked, made by Sam Whittingham, the world's fastest human (82.8 mph in 2009 under pedal power):
http://timetogetnaked.com/index.php/products-services/bikes-frames/

Or $3k will get you a Rivendell, if you're into the lugs and retro styling.


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## azpeterb (Jun 1, 2006)

And the winner is......the Pelizzoli! I'm in the process of ordering a red Corsa GP just like the one PRB has. I love the classic color and retro design that brings back memories of those flashy Italian road bikes in the early 80's. I ordered a Campy Chorus groupo, Chris King headset, and some other doodads and the total bill should come out to around $3100, right on target. Thanks for everyone's help on this, and I'll post a pic when the bike is built up. Can't wait!!!


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## flatsix911 (Jun 28, 2009)

Have you considered Titanium? :thumbsup:

*Full Shimano Dura Ace 7900, Titanium Le Champion Team $2800*
https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/lechamp_teamti_10.htm


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## SystemShock (Jun 14, 2008)

azpeterb said:


> And the winner is......the Pelizzoli!








.


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## rmsmith (Feb 15, 2007)

azpeterb said:


> I'm in the market for a steel road bike with a budget of around $3000 (give or take $500).


Co-Motion in Eugene, Oregon should be on your short-list:
http://www.co-motion.com/


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## medimond (Apr 26, 2009)

How about a Seven Cycles, steel Resolute SLX with SRAM Rival for MSRP of 3699.

http://www.sevencycles.com/road/resolute-slx.php


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## q_and_a (Aug 3, 2009)

azpeterb said:


> And the winner is......the Pelizzoli! I'm in the process of ordering a red Corsa GP just like the one PRB has. I love the classic color and retro design that brings back memories of those flashy Italian road bikes in the early 80's. I ordered a Campy Chorus groupo, Chris King headset, and some other doodads and the total bill should come out to around $3100, right on target. Thanks for everyone's help on this, and I'll post a pic when the bike is built up. Can't wait!!!


Nice choice.

That is a really good looking bike.


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## Dereck (Jan 31, 2005)

That red Pelizzoli is one good looking frameset. Class from end to end - good luck with her, hope she's as enjoyable to ride as look at. Campag - good choice indeed. What else could go on an Italian frame?

q_and_a - nothing to do with bikes at all, but I love the puppy in your avatar. Over the years, I've had five Boxers. After them, everything else is 'just a dog' - fun, cute, loving, etc, but just not quite the same as a Boxer.

D


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## mav6162005 (Mar 17, 2009)

q_and_a said:


> Nice choice.
> 
> That is a really good looking bike.


Very nice indeed, post the build pics....cheers...


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## q_and_a (Aug 3, 2009)

Dereck said:


> q_and_a - nothing to do with bikes at all, but I love the puppy in your avatar. Over the years, I've had five Boxers. After them, everything else is 'just a dog' - fun, cute, loving, etc, but just not quite the same as a Boxer.
> 
> D


Thanks, she's 2 now and a little on the bossy side, but still a great dog.


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## Dereck (Jan 31, 2005)

q_and_a said:


> Thanks, she's 2 now and a little on the bossy side, but still a great dog.


A little bossy - you're lucky. if you're real lucky, the girls tend to quieten up after three or so. I had THE alpha male for 12 years. He was technically 'just a dog', but no-one seemed to have told him. Best of the five Boxers I shared house with, though.

And now back to our regular programming, drooling over that red Pelizzoli, etc.

Regards

Dereck


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## i abdool (Apr 26, 2011)

i would buy a brent steelman custom


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## arndogg (May 13, 2009)

I just found out about Pelizzoli today. Are you getting just the frame and fork, orwill the bike be built by them?

How much? Me likey!


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## flatsix911 (Jun 28, 2009)

Forget Steel ... take a look at a Titanium frameset ... :thumbsup:

*SRAM Red, 20 Speed Titanium 2011 Le Champion Ti Inferno SRAM Red $2599 *
3/2.5 Butted Titanium, Full SRAM Red, Mavic Ksyrium Elite Wheels,Ritchey WCS Bar, Stem and Post
https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/lechamp_ti_inferno_sram_red.htm


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## PRB (Jun 15, 2002)

arndogg said:


> I just found out about Pelizzoli today. Are you getting just the frame and fork, orwill the bike be built by them?
> 
> How much? Me likey!


While they may build a bike up for you if you request it, normally they just sell the frame and fork. They used to have the prices posted on the website but they're no longer there; send an email to the contact on the page and Alessandro will answer your questions pretty quickly. I could tell you what I paid for mine but I'm not sure if the prices have changed since then.


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## arshak (Jun 13, 2005)

I have steel and ti bikes. I like 'em both. But if you are around 180-190lbs, my recommendation would be the Ti bike as it will be a little bit stiffer with the OS tubing and yet will deliver the smooth ride of a alloy frame like steel


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## rgordin (Oct 22, 2010)

azpeterb said:


> And the winner is......the Pelizzoli! I'm in the process of ordering a red Corsa GP just like the one PRB has. I love the classic color and retro design that brings back memories of those flashy Italian road bikes in the early 80's. I ordered a Campy Chorus groupo, Chris King headset, and some other doodads and the total bill should come out to around $3100, right on target. Thanks for everyone's help on this, and I'll post a pic when the bike is built up. Can't wait!!!


Great looking bike. Excellent choice of components for an Italian ride. You should be thrilled.


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## AndyMc2006 (Oct 27, 2006)

I live in Tucson as well, I have a custom Landshark I bought from Racers Edge in 1998, its still going strong. You can still get an incredible custom Landshark direct from the builder for a little less then $2,000, plus fork. Yes you can go nuts with picking your paint scheme but most of all you get an awesome custom built frame direct from the builder.


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## AndyMc2006 (Oct 27, 2006)

azpeterb said:


> I live in Tucson, AZ. There's a couple pretty good custom builders here (Gilmour and Bohemian Bicycles) but those are way out of my price range. There are quite a few bike shops here so it wouldn't be hard for one of them to order from a company that they deal with. I just don't want to end up with a carbon frame made by 12 y.o.'s in China....I want something that's going to last at least 10 years or so. For $3000 I'll have to go with a stock model of some sort. I have a Gunnar which is sort of a branch of Waterford....any difference between the two?


I live in Tucson as well, I have a custom Landshark I bought from Racers Edge in 1998, its still going strong. You can still get an incredible custom Landshark direct from the builder for a little less then $2,000, plus fork. Yes you can go nuts with picking your paint scheme but most of all you get an awesome custom built frame direct from the builder.


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## jr59 (Mar 30, 2011)

For the $$$ you spent, I think you got a GREAT deal.
That Pelizzoli ROCKS! Glad you put Chorus on it.

Post pics...Or it didn't happen!


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## i abdool (Apr 26, 2011)

pellizzoli frame+chorus=3000,is that correct


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## azpeterb (Jun 1, 2006)

i abdool said:


> pellizzoli frame+chorus=3000,is that correct


Well, sort of. Remember, I'm swapping the wheels, pedals, saddle and seatpost from my old bike. But yeah, the rest should come out to about $3000 for the frame and the gruppo. 

I just heard from Pelizzoli that the frame should be ready shortly. It's been a couple months but they're pretty backlogged. I'll post some pics when I get the bike built, hopefully in a couple weeks or so.


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## arndogg (May 13, 2009)

I requested a quote 3 weeks ago, and I only heard back from them yesterday. They said that they were on vacation. Anyways, I was quoted, for an unpainted frame and fork, 600 euros plus anothe 100 for shipping. Regardless, I was able to find a NOS CIOCC San Cristobal in my size, before Pelizzoli responded. I'm in waiting mode myself.



azpeterb said:


> I just heard from Pelizzoli that the frame should be ready shortly. It's been a couple months but they're pretty backlogged. I'll post some pics when I get the bike built, hopefully in a couple weeks or so.


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## azpeterb (Jun 1, 2006)

arndogg said:


> I requested a quote 3 weeks ago, and I only heard back from them yesterday. They said that they were on vacation. Anyways, I was quoted, for an unpainted frame and fork, 600 euros plus anothe 100 for shipping. Regardless, I was able to find a NOS CIOCC San Cristobal in my size, before Pelizzoli responded. I'm in waiting mode myself.


That's the same price they quoted me, but I'm pretty sure that includes a standard paint job. If you want more exotic colors, additional chrome, or other changes then they will add on to the price.

I'm wondering what the final price will be in dollars though. When I placed the order 2 months ago and put half down, the total price was about $1000.....but now that our economy is tanking I wonder how much the remaining 350 Euros will cost me. But whatever the price, it will be worth it.

Now I just have to explain to my wife the $580 I dropped last night ordering a Yakima roof-mounted bike rack system!


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## shmuk (Jul 26, 2011)

I just ordered one. Wooh!


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## marinonier (Jun 25, 2011)

Why not a custom Marinoni steel frame? I'm not sure if there's a dealer in your area but I'm VERY happy with my purchase that came in this week. They've been building bikes, specifically steel for over 30 years in Montreal, Quebec, Canada. There are over 40 colours to choose from and you can get a nice full build for well under $3000. I don't see how they're any different than the majority of custom steel manufacturers in North America and they seem to be priced VERY competitively.

Here's my custom 2011 Marinoni Piuma decked out with Columbus Spirit steel and Campy Centaur. The colour is "Eclipse."


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## azpeterb (Jun 1, 2006)

Holy crap.....my Pelizzoli frame is ready to be shipped from Italy!!! I feel like a kid at Christmas!!


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## shmuk (Jul 26, 2011)

Holy crap is right. I'm jealous. I ordered one too. Not done yet since they were busy with yours evidently. Sick! Mine's black.


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## i abdool (Apr 26, 2011)

how do i get in contact with pelizoli and whats there e-mail,how much did it cost


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## azpeterb (Jun 1, 2006)

i abdool said:


> how do i get in contact with pelizoli and whats there e-mail,how much did it cost


Just go to their website and the contact/e-mail details are there. The guy who responds to e-mails does speak english. Total cost for mine was 700 Euros (frame and shipping cost combined), which is roughly $1000. But that's for the standard frame and paint....changes to the basic design and paint will cost you more. Here's the link:

Pelizzoli world | Today, the true Italian Craftsman of the past.


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## azpeterb (Jun 1, 2006)

shmuk said:


> Holy crap is right. I'm jealous. I ordered one too. Not done yet since they were busy with yours evidently. Sick! Mine's black.


It took just shy of 3 months for them to do mine, but it sounds like they took some vacation time in August so that probably slowed things down. They did say upfront that it would be 70-80 days, and they were pretty much on target with that estimate. It's been torture waiting for it!


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## raymonda (Jan 31, 2007)

azpeterb said:


> Holy crap.....my Pelizzoli frame is ready to be shipped from Italy!!! I feel like a kid at Christmas!!


Nice choice. If I were to buy a new steel frame it would have to have lugs. Don't get me wrong, I've owned TIG steel and it rides as nice but it doesn't have the classic look. Lugs are like nice cuff links that finish off a classy look.

So, a red frame with lugs and chrome is a killer choice,

Enjoy.

BTW, post your final build.


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## shmuk (Jul 26, 2011)

BTW, 

Alessandro at Pelizzoli told me that there are not many left and are redesigning new frames for next year. They are going to cost a lot more. So... what are you waiting for? No more deals after this batch.


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## azpeterb (Jun 1, 2006)

shmuk said:


> BTW,
> 
> Alessandro at Pelizzoli told me that there are not many left and are redesigning new frames for next year. They are going to cost a lot more. So... what are you waiting for? No more deals after this batch.


Yeah, it looks like the word is out that this company makes awesome steel frames for a bargain price. With demand high, it's only natural that their prices go up. Good for them though....glad to hear the company is doing well.


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## rgordin (Oct 22, 2010)

azpeterb said:


> Holy crap.....my Pelizzoli frame is ready to be shipped from Italy!!! I feel like a kid at Christmas!!


I love the looks - red, lugs, classic looking frame. I have a similar one by an American frame maker. This type of frame sets me on fire. I want one. $1,000 is a bargain if it is as well made as it looks.


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## shmuk (Jul 26, 2011)

Black in the works. A little less blingy that the red. Ferraris always come in red or black.


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## azpeterb (Jun 1, 2006)

shmuk said:


> Black in the works. A little less blingy that the red. Ferraris always come in red or black.


Dang, that black is sweet! Awesome.


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## i abdool (Apr 26, 2011)

something is wrong with my link,what is the exact e-mail


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## PRB (Jun 15, 2002)

azpeterb said:


> Holy crap.....my Pelizzoli frame is ready to be shipped from Italy!!! I feel like a kid at Christmas!!


Congrats. :thumbsup: You made a very nice choice. 



i abdool said:


> something is wrong with my link,what is the exact e-mail


info at pelizzoliworld dot com Alessandro is the contact.


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## cleon (Jul 19, 2011)

I'm looking at steel now and this happens to be my shortlist. Probably nothing you haven't seen but just in case...

Soma Smoothie
Surly Pacer
Gunnar Roadie
Rivendell Roadeo
Torrelli
Jamis


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## shmuk (Jul 26, 2011)

[email protected]

Here you go.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Ride-Fly said:


> PeterB,
> FORGET about all these guys mentioned previously.
> 
> This> Pelizzoli world | Today, the true Italian Craftsman of the past.
> ...





Ride-Fly said:


> IMHO, you would be crazy to pick any other builder at this price range. UNLESS you found a NOS from the likes of DeRosa, Colnago, etc.
> 
> Get the Pelizolli, pick up an Athena group from Shiny bikes and then you have about $1000 left to select the wheels, pedals, and cockpit components.


Those beautiful frames are only $1000 :eek6: ???

They look like they're worth $3000


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## shmuk (Jul 26, 2011)

I think Alessandro @ PelizzoliWorld is shipping my frame. He just asked me for my phone # for shipping purposes. I better get on the wheel build ASAP. I have been slacker. I just got the motivation. It'll take me a week to do it. I am no pro so it takes much longer to get it perfect and also I have never done a radial lacing before so I don't know what kind of complication I will run into. The rear is half radial half 3X. I have a feeling I may be fumbling around on that.


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## i abdool (Apr 26, 2011)

show us the frame when you get it,did you get a steel fork also


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## shmuk (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah it comes with the steel fork. If you rewind this thread a little, there is a picture of my frame in the works. It is the black one. The red is sweet too. Honestly it would look awesome no matter what color you pick. Better hurry though. They are increasing the price or something and there are not too many left at the current price. I think they are going to sell only to retailers now so the price will have a mark up I'm guessing.When I ordered mine there were only 3 left in my size for that price. Not sure what is going on but why take the chance and miss it.


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## Eli (Oct 12, 2005)

Get the Waterford SR22 with Athena or Chorus components and handbuilt wheels. You'll be happy and it will last a long time.


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## i abdool (Apr 26, 2011)

thks for the info,i will check it out


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## azpeterb (Jun 1, 2006)

Well, here it is...the Pelizzoli! Just brought it home from the shop today and I am thrilled with it. A beautiful, beautiful bike....better than I hoped for. Total cost came out to about $3500, not too far from my target of $3000 after swapping over the wheels, pedals, saddle and seatpost. I am just ecstatic...this is truly the dream bike that I've waited 30 years for.


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## i abdool (Apr 26, 2011)

how is the ride


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## azpeterb (Jun 1, 2006)

i abdool said:


> how is the ride


Haven't been able to ride it yet!!! :cryin:

This weekend though, I will. Can't wait to see how it responds on the road!


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## PRB (Jun 15, 2002)

Congrats. The black headset really sets off the chrome lugs.


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## Trevor Ash (May 19, 2005)

--deleted--


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

azpeterb said:


> Well, here it is...the Pelizzoli! Just brought it home from the shop today and I am thrilled with it. A beautiful, beautiful bike....better than I hoped for. Total cost came out to about $3500, not too far from my target of $3000 after swapping over the wheels, pedals, saddle and seatpost. I am just ecstatic...this is truly the dream bike that I've waited 30 years for.


Beautiful bike!

Is the frame as gorgeous in real life as it is on the company website???


If it is, and I have to admit, I would be a worrywart riding that thing of beauty on wheels. I'd probably carry a polishing cloth in my rear jersey pocket and act like I was driving a 1962 Ferrari 250 GTO :lol: !


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## pdh777 (Oct 7, 2005)

Very nice looking bike - ride report when you are able.


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## azpeterb (Jun 1, 2006)

RIDE REPORT:

The short story: Awesome! 

The details: I've always had steel frames but this was the first time since the late 90's that I didn't have a carbon fork so I was anxious to see how comfortable the ride would be. Well, it exceeded my expectations, by a mile! Very, very comfortable ride yet the bike was nimble and surprisingly responsive. It handled the corners well at high speed, was great on climbs and so smooth on the flats. Honestly, I can't remember how long it has been since I've had a ride this comfortable. This was my first try with an 11-spd cassette as well as a compact crank but it didn't take me long to get used to the differences from my old drivetrain. It was nice to be riding on my trusty Avocet Air40 saddle too....I had it recovered a year ago but hadn't used it until today. Bottom line: a plush ride but responsive, everything I could have hoped for and more. Absolutely thrilled with this bike!!!


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## shmuk (Jul 26, 2011)

Thanks for the update! Glad to hear the awesomeness!

Got home last night from being out of town and tore open the box to look at my new pelizzoli. Wooh! It's pretty nice! Yeah it looks to need facing. But my mechanic friend will know better. Maybe it won't. I'll just feed him some beer and he'll do what it needs. Oh beer afterwards of course. Then bring it back home and start wrenching.

My poor Pinarello is going to lose some attention since this bike showed up.


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