# Seat all the way forward on Dogma 60.1



## iridepinarello (Feb 22, 2009)

Am I the only one who has to have their seat all the way forward on their Dogma? I had a Retul fit and they said the bike fit me. I'm 6'0" tall with very normal body proportions. I ride a Dogma witha 54cm TT and a 120 stem. 

Always wondered why my saddle needs to be so far forward. I can't image going to a smaller TT and/or smaller stem. Been ridden a 54 or 55 cm top tube bike with a 120 stem for as long as I recall.

Thoughts?


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

Can you get a zero-offset seat post? Or is that a proprietory model? I've had that problem a lot needing a short TT for my height. To me, it means something else in the set-up needs to be changed. (But I'm not a fitter, just an opinion from someone who has had the same issue).


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## spas (Jul 15, 2009)

Nope - I have mine pretty far forward as well:

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Steve


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

You can get a zero offset seatpost for your Dogma. Boasson-Hagen of Sky uses one. Unfortunately they are insanely expensive...no surprise. 

From Competitve Cyclist:


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## Bill Bikie (Jul 24, 2010)

*Plumb line from knee method*

With the bike level, get into a comfortable position on the saddle with your hands on brake hoods or tops. Position crank at 180 degrees. Attach a small weight to a string and have a buddy drop this "plumb line" from the bone just below your kneecap to the pedal spindle where it meets the crank. If the line bisects the splndle, this can be a starting point for proper forward and back saddle position. 

The saddle shouldn't "bottom out" forward or back. Something is wrong here.


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## Bill Bikie (Jul 24, 2010)

My seat clamp is right in the middle of the rail and I have a 110mm stem. So fortunately I have lots of room for variations with the seat and stem. 

My bike is a 2012 Quatro with 55cm top tube. I'm about 5' 8 1/2" and 148lbs with a normal reach. The bike was professionally set up and fits me like a glove.


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

OP, is your position very upright? Is it possible to remove spacers from the head tube, lower the bars and saddle, and thereby decrease the effective top tube? Then you will be able to move the saddle aft.

But really, you should go back to that fitter and tell him the saddle is too far forward to be safe, and he needs to adjust your fit. And I may be wrong, but a 54 TT sounds very small for someone who is 6' tall with average proportions. Unless you mean the size of the bike is 54, Pina's are sized differently than a lot of other brands. I usually ride a 54 women's specific. In this brand I'm around 47 to 50, depending on the model. I'm 5'7'' with very long limbs. Top tube around 52. And that is small for someone my height. That's in an aggressive position. When I'm very upright, the (effective) TT shrinks to 50 or so, and the setup is 'off.' I end up needing the 0 offset seat post, plus a ridiculously short, steep, stem.


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## stitcher (Jun 11, 2012)

Bill,
What is your inseam if you don't mind me asking? I would like to confirm my calculations  
I'm 5'11 1/2" with 32 1/2" inseam. Based on ebicycles.com frame size calculator, I should have bike with 56 C-T tube, which seems very true, I have Specialized Tricross 56 right now. Converting 56 C-T to Pinarello we are getting two top tube lengths - 557(550 frame size) or 565(560 frame size).


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## Bill Bikie (Jul 24, 2010)

*Seems to be about a 31" (+/- 1/4")*



stitcher said:


> Bill,
> What is your inseam if you don't mind me asking? I would like to confirm my calculations
> I'm 5'11 1/2" with 32 1/2" inseam. Based on ebicycles.com frame size calculator, I should have bike with 56 C-T tube, which seems very true, I have Specialized Tricross 56 right now. Converting 56 C-T to Pinarello we are getting two top tube lengths - 557(550 frame size) or 565(560 frame size).


Seems to be about a 31" (+/- 1/4"). I think my legs are on the short side, but my feet are large for my size at 10 1/2. My cycling shoes will overlap the front tire if I want to make it happen. 

The Pinarello toptube arches up in the middle, and when I straddle my Quatro barefoot, it rubs my "personal undercarriage". As we all know now, you can no longer measure bike fit by standing over the frame, especially a Pino.


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## mykol77 (Aug 1, 2011)

In my experience the "sweet spot" for the Romin Evo or Romin is further back than most saddles. I was running a Toupe on my Dogma before switching to the Romin Evo and I had to push my Romin much further in than in my Toupe.


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## Bill Bikie (Jul 24, 2010)

aureliajulia said:


> OP, is your position very upright? Is it possible to remove spacers from the head tube, lower the bars and saddle, and thereby decrease the effective top tube? Then you will be able to move the saddle aft.
> 
> But really, you should go back to that fitter and tell him the saddle is too far forward to be safe, and he needs to adjust your fit. And I may be wrong, but a 54 TT sounds very small for someone who is 6' tall with average proportions. Unless you mean the size of the bike is 54, Pina's are sized differently than a lot of other brands. I usually ride a 54 women's specific. In this brand I'm around 47 to 50, depending on the model. I'm 5'7'' with very long limbs. Top tube around 52. And that is small for someone my height. That's in an aggressive position. When I'm very upright, the (effective) TT shrinks to 50 or so, and the setup is 'off.' I end up needing the 0 offset seat post, plus a ridiculously short, steep, stem.


Same here. I'm 5' 8 1/2" and 148 lbs and my Pino is about a 52cm. I'd ride a 54-55cm traditional steel frame. The Pino's arching toptube also helps throw off traditional measuring.


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## vboy19 (Mar 24, 2008)

sorry didn't have time to read all the posts, but you may need to get a shorter stem (i.e. 100mm) but you have the integrated combo so it could be an issue.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

It looks like the post clamp is too far back on the rail. Especially for a carbon rail. All that stress on the radius is a broken rail waiting to happen.

http://www.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/pdf/IG0273_carbon_rail_saddle_guide_all8_revC.PDF


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

For safety and proper fit, you should ideally have the clamps somewhere between the 1 and 5. A little outside perhaps for one or the other, but this indicates a fit that is not correct. The gap at the small arrow shouldn't exist, and the clamp at the oval mark isn't seated properly. And it's at an angle perpendicular to the bolt. 

I'm a little perplexed by the position of the front clamp(s) in relation to the bolt. Is the clamp or clamps behind the bolt? It's hard to see, but the bolt looks like it is not going through the clamp. Could just be the picture though.

Imagine what is going to happen when this saddle comes off on a turn or descent.


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## -dustin (Jan 11, 2009)

Did you bring up your concerns with the guys that just did a (presumably) $300 - $350 fit on you? 

PS - I would invest in the other post or not use a carbon railed saddle. 

Short femurs?


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## merckxman (Jan 23, 2002)

Not familiar with Dogmas but it looks like that gap that you show with the small read arrow is normal, see SKY Pinarello photo.



aureliajulia said:


> For safety and proper fit, you should ideally have the clamps somewhere between the 1 and 5. A little outside perhaps for one or the other, but this indicates a fit that is not correct. The gap at the small arrow shouldn't exist, and the clamp at the oval mark isn't seated properly. And it's at an angle perpendicular to the bolt.
> 
> I'm a little perplexed by the position of the front clamp(s) in relation to the bolt. Is the clamp or clamps behind the bolt? It's hard to see, but the bolt looks like it is not going through the clamp. Could just be the picture though.
> 
> Imagine what is going to happen when this saddle comes off on a turn or descent.


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## iridepinarello (Feb 22, 2009)

As an update... I had a Retul bike fit and ended up moving my saddle down 1cm, back 1.2cm, and brought my stem up 5mm. I feel 100% better on my bike. No more left knee issue, no more back pain, no more excuses.


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

Awesome. Feel free to share a photo.


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## aureliajulia (May 25, 2009)

iridepinarello said:


> As an update... I had a Retul bike fit and ended up moving my saddle down 1cm, back 1.2cm, and brought my stem up 5mm. I feel 100% better on my bike. No more left knee issue, no more back pain, no more excuses.


I've so been there with the fittings. One reason I need a new bike. My 4 year old Cannondale is just a tad small.


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## zion rasta (Aug 15, 2004)

Either, you are not 6' tall or the bike is not a "54".


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## bmorgan4 (Jan 25, 2013)

OP, be careful with all the advice given here (and what I am about to give you). First off, the seat position is NOT determined by your bar height/reach etc. You set your stem length (and subsequently stack and reach based on where your saddle is). The saddle position is based entirely on your legs, and you should NEVER adjust your saddle fore/aft to reduce reach etc. That is crazy. Trust your Retul fit. Dogma's are notorious for the large saddle offset post, I have the same issue. They do this because most cyclists tend to run a smaller frame than necessary, which necessitates a high saddle on that frame and requires more saddle setback @ the post. So if the fit feels good, dont let the fact that the saddle is slammed forward make you think anything else is wrong. Just get a zero setback post or leave it as is.

Just my 2 cents...


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## Spark (Oct 15, 2012)

bmorgan4 said:


> OP, be careful with all the advice given here (and what I am about to give you). First off, the seat position is NOT determined by your bar height/reach etc. You set your stem length (and subsequently stack and reach based on where your saddle is). The saddle position is based entirely on your legs, and you should NEVER adjust your saddle fore/aft to reduce reach etc. That is crazy. Trust your Retul fit. Dogma's are notorious for the large saddle offset post, I have the same issue. They do this because most cyclists tend to run a smaller frame than necessary, which necessitates a high saddle on that frame and requires more saddle setback @ the post. So if the fit feels good, dont let the fact that the saddle is slammed forward make you think anything else is wrong. Just get a zero setback post or leave it as is.
> 
> Just my 2 cents...


+1 ....


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