# Skipping Chain



## a_roadbiker (Jan 11, 2007)

Greetings all, 

I have been changing my own chain for years (since 1985) and most recently this week I changed the chain on my Campy Record 10 (for about the 3rd or fourth time). When I installed the new chain (using the correct Campy tool) I also inspected the cogs and chainring for wear and they are fine. I measured the the tooth gap and compared it to a new cassette and it is virtually the same, within a fraction of a mm. I checked the pulleys and they look fine too. I also replaced the rear derailleur cable. 

Before I changed the chain I counted the (outside) links on the old chain and on the chain before that one (53 and 54, resp.) and decided to use 54 links (it was the length of the original chain installed by Tommasini). 

I cleaned everything before reassembly and adjusted the derailleur. On the stand everything works fine. It even works fine while riding my rollers. No problems shifting and everything is smooth and quiet. However, I took the bike outside to ride yesterday and as soon as I applied any pressure the chain skipped. A lot. I brought the bike in and removed one link, so now the chain is the same length as the one I just removed (which had about 3,000 miles on it) and it still skips under load. The chain is not tight or bent. 

I have new pulley, chainrings, and a new cassette, but I don’t think that any of those are the problem. 

I used to always change the cassette with the chain, but the Campy 10 (Steel/TI) is way too expensive to afford that luxury (I changed the cassette once so far and even the first one still looks pretty good). 

Do you have any ideas? Should I remove another link? 

And one more question. What is your opinion about reusing the chain-pin on the Campy Record chain? I tried it and it seems to be fine, but Campy warns against it (and I do have a spare Campy Permalink, but I don’t want to use it unless I have to). 

Thanks for your advice. In the mean time I bit the bullet and changed the cassette. I'll let you know if that worked. 

Jim 
Tommasini Fire with Full Record 10 grouppo


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

Sounds like worn out cassette to me. Good indication of worn cassette is if some gears skip more than others. If crankrings are worn out it would skip equally in all gears, but chain can't skip so easy on cranks due to more teeth.
Also if your cassette is only slightly worn out chain skipping usually stops after few hundred km, but it ain't that awful in the beginning too.


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## a_roadbiker (Jan 11, 2007)

I changed the cassette and now all seems fine. I just hate having to shell out $300 for a chain/cassette change. Luckily I don't have to change the chainrings too, but I am prepared for that as well.

Thanx,
Jim


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

a_roadbiker said:


> I changed the cassette and now all seems fine. I just hate having to shell out $300 for a chain/cassette change. Luckily I don't have to change the chainrings too, but I am prepared for that as well.
> 
> Thanx,
> Jim


It's not that easy to wear the chainrings out on a roadbike.


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

a_roadbiker said:


> I changed the cassette and now all seems fine. I just hate having to shell out $300 for a chain/cassette change. Luckily I don't have to change the chainrings too, but I am prepared for that as well.
> 
> Thanx,
> Jim


you don't 'have to'

veloce cassette ~ $60 - chain $40 online. Same steel and treatment according to campy - and i certainly get awesome milage out of it all....


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

yep, i never realised why some ppl change their chains every 3000 km. Get veloce chain and veloce cassette (60 € for both) and ride both till it desintegrate.  Then get another chaep cassette+chain set. Chainrings will probably survive at least 3 rounds of that giving you more than 40000 km of carefree ride.
Thats how I see it. Dummiest thing that can be done is to buy some ultra-hyper-biturbo-GT-light-...you got the pont expensive titanium cassette.


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

i do change my chain, but i got at least 5,000km out of my $35 veloce chain before it was too 'stretched'. If you do not allow excessive elongation in your chain, it will not prematurely wear out your cassette - one could go through 4-5 chains plus per cassette.

the main issue with allowing a chain to go over-strecthed is that if you look at your chainrings, the links do not correctly sit snugly in between the teeth (or on cassette teeth for that matter). This is what creates the excessive wear - the tell tale 'shark tooth' as the smooth semi-circular curvature of the teeth are decimated by the links that are on the wrong position, now closer to the apex of the tooth pattern. Campy chainrings are pretty expensive, as in - buy a new crankset. 

$35-40 for a chain is some pretty cheap preventative maintenence.


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## igor-jz (Nov 11, 2006)

Hi a_roadbiker.

The skipping new chain on a "worn" cassette is common thing. You don't have to worry about it - this would have gone after approx. 300 km on record chain (outside, not on rollers!), when the chain and cassette will work a bit together.


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## a_roadbiker (Jan 11, 2007)

no, but eventually they have to be replaced too. I've replaced chainrings on all three of my bikes. You can tell it's time when the teeth look pointy and worn out...


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## a_roadbiker (Jan 11, 2007)

Yeah, but I live in a pretty hilly area and I would be constantly skipping gears while wating for the chain to break in. New cassette was the way to go. I like the Record Ti/Steel Cassette with the Record UT 10 chain. I'm sure the Veloce setup is good too, but I like to use all Record components...


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*info..*

If you removed and reinstalled any of the regular pins on a Campy chain, the chances of chain failure have increased greatly. If the chain is joined with the HD-L pin the first time, that pin should be removed and a properly fitting master link used to rejoin the chain. The chain length should be set to the longest that will produce some chain chain tension in the little/little combination.

Do a search for my posts on chain rotation and chain wear measurement. By alternating the use of several chains instead of using one chain until you think it's worn out and installing a new one, you can get many more miles from a cassette by avoiding chain skip. I expect about 5,000 miles from a chain and 15,000 from the cassette.

Also, if you do a lot of climbing and use the three Ti cogs on a Record cassette frequently, those cogs will last about half as long as the steel cogs on a Chorus cassette. It's a high price to pay to save 20-30 grams of weight. The lower level cassettes weigh a little more, but should last as long as the Chorus model.


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## a_roadbiker (Jan 11, 2007)

Even from the Campy Chain? That sounds like something to try. For one of my bikes I have a set of tubulars and a set of clinchers. I also have a variety of cassettes for different terrains. When I rode that bike a lot, I used to always keep the chain paired with the cassette and found that I got a lot of miles out of both. But that was way back in the days of 7 speed cassettes...


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## mandasol (Sep 10, 2007)

You're problem might be when you went to install the new rear derailleur cable. 

I just had a similar problem with a used bike I got with campy. Nothing I could do would make the rear shift perfectly, and I don't buy the Campagnolo just needs to wear in baloney. So, I bought a new cassette, new chain, and even another 'used' record rear derailleur, and it still didn't shift right. I was almost about to buy a rear derailleur hanger alignment tool to make sure a bent hanger wasn't the problem. But I decided on trying a brand new rear derailleur. Even after installing the new rear derailleur still the same. So, I broke down and read the directions that came with the new derailleur -- doh! 

I found the culprit, I had just assumed the campy rear derailleurs installed just like shimano or sram which I had worked on for years, but no. There's one step I would have never thought of. 

http://www.campagnolo.com/repository/documenti/en/7225432%20-%20Rear%20derailleur%209-10s-03-08.pdf

See Page 24 Fig 7

At first I thought the diagram was telling me to make sure the chain is shifted all the way to the small cog, but then I realized it's telling me to hold the thumb lever down WHILE tightening down the cable to the rear derailleur. Since I don't have three hands I grabbed my heart rate strap, looped it on the thumb lever, pulled tight, and wrapped the shifter a couple times till it held. Then I re-attached the cable to the rear derailleur. After removing the strap from the shifter, I shifted through the gears. I noticed I had to reset the High Low screws, but other than that the shifting was amazingly perfect. 

Shifting now is equally firm and solid for every gear, and when it's in a gear the chain stays put and is quiet. It's like a new bike. And I didn't even have to touch the barrel adjusters, which is even more amazing because before I figured out what I was doing wrong I spent weeks twisting the heck out of them back and forth while praying to the Cycling gods to make it work without any success.


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## a_roadbiker (Jan 11, 2007)

When I replace my rear deraileur cable, all i do is shift all the way to the smallest cog and remove the cable. When I install the new cable, I only pull it so that it is somewhat taught and then tighten the holding bolt. I may have some slight adjustments to make with the barrel screw, but otherwise the new cable goes on easily and without effort or major adjustments.

Jim


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

Why worry about the connectin pin? I use a Wippermann connecting link and call it a day. Works great, especially since I'm addicted to pulling my chain off to give it a "proper" cleaning. If you do decide to use it, just make sure it's not mounted upside down, otherwise the chain will skip when the mismounted link rolls over the cassette.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*not necessary..*

There is no need to hold the thumb button down while attaching the cable. Even if the cable is pulled snugly by hand, there is nearly always the need to increase the cable tension.

The small cog limit screw should be set before the cable is attached. I've found that the large cog limit screw rarely functions to limit the RD travel, once the cable tension is set properly, but it can be set after the cable is attached.


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