# Has anyone tried the new Hutchinson Piranha CX tire w Carbon bead, do they burp less?



## artnshel (Jun 29, 2004)

I like the Hutchinson CX tires and have heard that they changed the bead to be more resistant to burping at low pressures. The new tires say carbon bead, has anyone tried the them yet?


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## fallzboater (Feb 16, 2003)

I'm using the new Tubeless Ready Piranhas now with Stan's Plus Four strips on Velocity A23 rims, but not much experience, yet.


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## artnshel (Jun 29, 2004)

fallzboater said:


> I'm using the new Tubeless Ready Piranhas now with Stan's Plus Four strips on Velocity A23 rims, but not much experience, yet.


Are those the wide rims like the Hed C2 wheels?
That would be a nice set up.
By the way the old version of the Piranha is on Bonktown right now for $22
Art


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## fallzboater (Feb 16, 2003)

Yeah, they're a 23mm Aerohead style rim. I measured one at 435g, so they're a bit heavier (but lighter than the Hed C2). I'm actually going to be using these on my cross and road bikes, both tubeless.
http://www.velocityusa.com/default.asp?contentID=746


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## thomaskrap (Jun 16, 2007)

I have the newer version of the Bulldogs and they won't seat right on a Stans 340 rim setup. I've tried everything from soap and water to stretching them out with tubes. Half of the bead is still severely uneven up and down. Anyone have any suggestions for this? I've tried everything and nothing seems to be working. Either way, I hope this isn't the new carbon bead causing this.


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## artnshel (Jun 29, 2004)

thomaskrap said:


> I have the newer version of the Bulldogs and they won't seat right on a Stans 340 rim setup. I've tried everything from soap and water to stretching them out with tubes. Half of the bead is still severely uneven up and down. Anyone have any suggestions for this? I've tried everything and nothing seems to be working. Either way, I hope this isn't the new carbon bead causing this.


 I'm surprised. I though that would be an ideal tubeless set up.


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## yeti_cx (Aug 5, 2010)

Jensons sells the new ones and customer service rep told me he had the old ones (Piranhas) and the new ones on a set of Dura Ace wheels and he said they're identical.


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## the mayor (Jul 8, 2004)

They burp less...but they fart more.

I watched a guy blow a pair off last weekend in a ham fisted move.
I don't know what his set up was....but he did say they were the new carbon beads.


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## tschallb (Feb 11, 2005)

*Could not get them to seat with Stan's ZTR Rims*

Just bought some new Bulldogs to replace my Bulldogs from last CX season. Attempted to mount them and the bead was unbelievably hard to seat (had to dig out a Koolstop Tire Jack to get the bead over the Rim Edge). Once mounted I tried and tried to get the beads to seat (Floor pump and Air Compressor but could not get them to seat). I had no problem getting the tire pressure up to 80 PSI but the Bead would stay in the middle of the Rim. After continuing to use the compressor the tire bead basically snapped (most likely from the aggressive nature of the tire jack) and the tire blow off the rim. It appears that the bead broke leading to the failure.

I went back to my old Bulldog and had no problem mounting it with a simple lever and getting it to seat with my floor pump.

It would appear, at least with Stan ZTRs, that the Carbon bead makes things too tight to get them mounted.


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## yeti_cx (Aug 5, 2010)

Someone needs to call NoTubes (607) 562-2877 and ask them whats up this??? I _was_ about to buy the new Piranhas to mount on Alphas but it seems like there's an issue here. That is _supposed_ to be THE setup. Stans + Hutchinson NOT working together, something has to be wrong. Sounds like the new carbon bead is both too rigid and too small.


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## fallzboater (Feb 16, 2003)

Did you soap them up? I had no problem with the new Piranhas, but I'm not using Stan's rims.


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## thomaskrap (Jun 16, 2007)

tschallb said:


> Just bought some new Bulldogs to replace my Bulldogs from last CX season. Attempted to mount them and the bead was unbelievably hard to seat (had to dig out a Koolstop Tire Jack to get the bead over the Rim Edge). Once mounted I tried and tried to get the beads to seat (Floor pump and Air Compressor but could not get them to seat). I had no problem getting the tire pressure up to 80 PSI but the Bead would stay in the middle of the Rim. After continuing to use the compressor the tire bead basically snapped (most likely from the aggressive nature of the tire jack) and the tire blow off the rim. It appears that the bead broke leading to the failure.
> 
> I went back to my old Bulldog and had no problem mounting it with a simple lever and getting it to seat with my floor pump.
> 
> It would appear, at least with Stan ZTRs, that the Carbon bead makes things too tight to get them mounted.



I've had the exact same experience. I had a buddy of mine blow two bulldogs off stans 340 rims. I honestly think it's this new batch of Hutch tires. But much like you, when he used an old bull-dog that he used last season, they mounted completely fine. It's safe to say that the bead is way too tight even with the use of windex and/or soap and water. 

Time to call Hutchinson.


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## yeti_cx (Aug 5, 2010)

Good luck getting anything out of Hutchinson if you can find a customer service number. They're a foreign company with a distributor only here who could probably care less about this. Thats why I suggested to call Stans because supposedly they test all of the new tire and wheel combos and they are a small company that you get through to and talk to someone who might actually know something.


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## jared_j (Jun 11, 2009)

*No dice on Hutch*

Stan's says not to use Hutch:

http://www.notubes.com/support_tire.php


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## the mayor (Jul 8, 2004)

jared_j said:


> Stan's says not to use Hutch:
> 
> http://www.notubes.com/support_tire.php


 For 26" standard tires....not tubeless cross tires.


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## 88 rex (Mar 18, 2008)

jared_j said:


> Stan's says not to use Hutch:
> 
> http://www.notubes.com/support_tire.php



That's for a standard bead.


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## jared_j (Jun 11, 2009)

My bad.


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## 88 rex (Mar 18, 2008)

jared_j said:


> My bad.



It's cool:thumbsup:


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

I think people are having better luck with non-tubeless tires for cross than the Hutchinson tires.


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## andy13 (Aug 22, 2008)

I am really concerned as I have a new set of stans 340s and have the piranhas on order. I raced 355s w/ bulldogs last year and loved them. I wanted to set up two sets, the 355s for mud and 340s for non mud days. Are last year's models a better fit? Are last year's tires available?
Crap!


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## yeti_cx (Aug 5, 2010)

^ You can get a pair shipped for $75 on ebay.


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## thomaskrap (Jun 16, 2007)

Just had another blow off the rim.. 

Pictures + info here: http://messageboard.notubes.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2808


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## Dion (Dec 24, 2009)

I have the Mavic Open Pro rims with the old Hutchinson Bulldog/Piranha tubeless tires and Stan's rim strips. I have burped my rear tires a few times, once on a rocky trail and the other on a re-mount doing barrier drills. 

1st race this Sunday... let's see how they pan out.


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## yeti_cx (Aug 5, 2010)

I read the other day on NoTubes message board a guy posted this problem, be he wasn't even aware of the new carbon bead. To Thomas though, I also read Stans recommends to not go over 50psi and to try and keep at around 45 as you get the best use of the tire in that range. You said one blew off at 40psi just sitting there? Clearly there is a problem so I would hang on to all of those blown tires as they will probably be recalled. As of a few days ago I emailed NoTubes about this and they said they were not aware of the issue but they will look in to it... Has anyone contacted Hutchinson yet?

Here is their great customer service:

A problem with your HUTCHINSON product? Get back to your retailer who will take the necessary steps to contact the Hutchinson after-sales service.
If you prefer, you can also send your products straight to the following address:

HUTCHINSON PNEUMATIQUES
Service Qualité
Rue Gustave Nourry
45120 Chalette sur Loing


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## brianvonlehe (Nov 7, 2005)

Just a thought
Stans rims are pretty tight fitting, so maybe this combo is so tight that people are damaging the carbon bead when installing the tire with levers? 
Have not seen the new hutch's, just a guess.


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## andy13 (Aug 22, 2008)

Some of the beads may have been damaged, however, mine were installed by soaping the beads up prior to mounting and using a Park mounting tool, not a tire lever. I am not saying it's impossible that I damaged the bead but if I did damage the bead, how would Hutchinson recommend mounting them?


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## fallzboater (Feb 16, 2003)

I suspect that's been an issue in many cases. I've now done three races, and couple of rides on MTB trails, on my new Piranhas wrapped around A23s with Stan's Plus 4 strip kits. I'm 180 lb and running 35psi front, 40psi rear. I'm sure I could go lower, but on paved corners I can feel the rear tire just starting to fold over a bit at that pressure, and I occasionaly get a rim strike on sharp edges. No burps or other issues.


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## L.I.cyclocrosser (Sep 20, 2010)

I am running Alpha 340,s with Schwalbe Racing Ralph's (new design tread).I have done 4 races already this season and have yet to have a problem.I am running at 30-35 psi and weigh 142 lbs. I burped some air once in the rear tire when i got sideways and really dug it in on a big root.It sealed right up and I finished the race on it.Feel like I could go a little lower with the pressure.I have run Dugast tubulars as well as Grifos and feel this setup is less of a hassle than the tubulars,less expensive and the ride quality is about as good.Haven't done a real muddy race yet but may get another set of Alpha 340 wheels to try mounting Michelin Mud tires on them.I have yet to use my Grifo tubulars this year that are mounted and ready to roll.


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