# Crashing into a car BECAUSE they saw you



## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

Posting this here because I know a lot of you will know where this is. What should I have done here, slowed down? taken more of the lane so it was more obvious that I wasn't turning? Asked for her number? Honestly I don't see myself avoiding this situation because of the adrenaline involved but in case some of you guys are more reasoned here's something to think about.

http://vimeo.com/13012136


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## roscoe (Mar 9, 2010)

you should follow at a safe distance


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

IMO, there was room on the right. Take your escape in order to avoid a collision.


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## roscoe (Mar 9, 2010)

JoelS said:


> IMO, there was room on the right. Take your escape in order to avoid a collision.


that's asking for trouble IMO (passing a car on the right when that car's in a right turn only lane and about to take the turn)

if anything, he should have gone around on the left side if he planned to keep riding straight, should have just been slower if he wanted to turn right


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

Yep, I should. I wasn't expecting a COMPLETELY stopped car. Will go slower next time.



roscoe said:


> you should follow at a safe distance


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## Todman007 (Jul 16, 2006)

*Crash into Car*



roscoe said:


> you should follow at a safe distance


California Vehicle Code will in most cases side with the driver in this case. The thought process being that one should follow at a safe distance. Excessive speed for conditions on the road is usually cited in rear end accidents. Glad to see and hear it was relatively slow speed collision with bumper. Be safe.

Question; Any particular reason for the helmet cam on this ride?


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## BunnV (Sep 7, 2005)

1. NEVER assume that anyone sees you.
2. ALWAYS expect that the driver will do the LEAST EXPECTED thing (i.e. stop or turn right in front of you)
3. Be ready for number 1 and 2

No offense, but that looked like it was completely avoidable by you. 

Hope you're ok.


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## skizzle86 (Apr 15, 2010)

Glad your okay...what video camera were you using to record that? The quality is great!


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## JoelS (Aug 25, 2008)

roscoe said:


> that's asking for trouble IMO (passing a car on the right when that car's in a right turn only lane and about to take the turn)
> 
> if anything, he should have gone around on the left side if he planned to keep riding straight, should have just been slower if he wanted to turn right


Maybe so, but from the video clip, it looked like the safest thing to do in that particular panic situation. There was plenty of room to the right, and making a right turn there to avoid a collision would have been smart, even if it wasn't what the rider wanted to do.


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

Yup it was avoidable by me, I failed to realize that the least expected thing was a complete stop at that turn. I'm so used to them never seeing me, or taking the turn faster ahead of me. 


BunnV said:


> 1. NEVER assume that anyone sees you.
> 2. ALWAYS expect that the driver will do the LEAST EXPECTED thing (i.e. stop or turn right in front of you)
> 3. Be ready for number 1 and 2
> 
> ...


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

contourhd 1080p. The raw video is even better but still not like a real camcorder. You also get some line effects when pointing towards the sun. Overall it's very nice though.



skizzle86 said:


> Glad your okay...what video camera were you using to record that? The quality is great!


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

My morning ride takes me on roads where the rouge truck in the other thread has been spotted. If I find him everyone's going to know exactly what the truck and driver look like. I'm also making videos to use on my trainer at home. I hope to use some telemetry software and trainer running in ergo mode to re-create the rides I do.



Todman007 said:


> California Vehicle Code will in most cases side with the driver in this case. The thought process being that one should follow at a safe distance. Excessive speed for conditions on the road is usually cited in rear end accidents. Glad to see and hear it was relatively slow speed collision with bumper. Be safe.
> 
> Question; Any particular reason for the helmet cam on this ride?


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## paloaltorider (Jan 2, 2010)

Sorry about the mishap. Luckily no one from behind ran you over. I avoid university avenue like the plague. Just too much traffic. Since you were coming from Stanford, I would bypass all of university avenue. Too many inattentive drivers and that right just sucks. I would exit out on embarcadero exit of stanford and take the pedestrian tunnel across to bryant and then head to downtown PA if that is where you were headed..


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

I have to admit that in a weird way the _potential_ for something to go down is part of the attraction. I do an out and back to Stanford from Fremont every morning so sometimes I take Willow but the PA part of University outside of downtown is so smooth. Then there is University in EPA where I can't count how many pinch flats and punctures I've had there.



paloaltorider said:


> Sorry about the mishap.  Luckily no one from behind ran you over. I avoid university avenue like the plague. Just too much traffic. Since you were coming from Stanford, I would bypass all of university avenue. Too many inattentive drivers and that right just sucks. I would exit out on embarcadero exit of stanford and take the pedestrian tunnel across to bryant and then head to downtown PA if that is where you were headed..


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## mellowyellowCJ7 (Sep 19, 2008)

dwgranda said:


> I have to admit that in a weird way the _potential_ for something to go down is part of the attraction.


This sort of explains the out of the saddle motion to get right up on that car's bumper. I'm not saying I don't do the same, but it was a large portion of the reason you made contact with the car. I refer to that type of riding as bike messenger riding. I do it sometimes when traffic is really slow and congested, but I know that it is pretty ill advised while I'm doing it. I guess it makes me feel like a kid playing on the street.:blush2:


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

Yep  I knew in my mind, she's going to go there, ok I'm going to go here... oh s**t!


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## Todman007 (Jul 16, 2006)

*Crash into Car*

The one thing about drivers is that you can expect them to drive in ways you would not expect them to. The same can be said for some of us bicyclist as well. 

I like to think ahead of a situation, and come up with a plan on what to do if they don't drive as anticipated. Stay alert to changes on the road. Good luck.


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## dahas325is (Oct 26, 2008)

paloaltorider said:


> Sorry about the mishap. Luckily no one from behind ran you over. I avoid university avenue like the plague. Just too much traffic. Since you were coming from Stanford, I would bypass all of university avenue. Too many inattentive drivers and that right just sucks. I would exit out on embarcadero exit of stanford and take the pedestrian tunnel across to bryant and then head to downtown PA if that is where you were headed..


+1 and glad to know that you came out fine. :thumbsup:


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## mike2g (Oct 10, 2006)

Glad you're ok. I agree with others that when riding in traffic you have to ride far enough back (distance depends on how attentive/distracted you are, how fast your reflexes are, road conditions, etc) to be able to be able to stop or go around obstacles. Although I know and agree with this advice I don't always follow it. Your video was a nice reminder of why I should make more of an effort, thanks for posting it.


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## txzen (Apr 6, 2005)

Hard to anticipate that stop, but you couldn't pay me to ride on University Ave.


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## CoLiKe20 (Jan 30, 2006)

I like Univ Ave.... as a pedestrian...


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

At first, I was assuming she stopped because she couldn't make up her mind on where to go, but then...Exactly what did she say to explain her stop? She saw you and...what? Well, point is, IF she did say it was because she saw you, then I have no clue where that explanation was going to be rational.

But yeah, that technically very avoidable. I'm not saying it in the sense you should've been in zone-Matrix mode, but it didn't look like you were being as cautious as you ideally should have. If I'm right, you were put in some effort make up for the incline. A bit much perhaps.


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

She knew exactly where she wanted to go. One thing that's not obvious from the video is that she had the smell of turning right at that turn there, that's why I didn't slow down, I thought I knew what she was going to do. The reason she didn't follow through is that she saw me and thought I was going to take it up the right and didn't want to run into me. Why she would assume I would do the most suicidal thing possible I don't know. Maybe she realized she didn't signal?

I think I'm just not going to take this route ever again. IMO going slower has it's own problems. By going fast through the dark part I can ride more to the left which is important because there are some grates down there which would cause their own issues. You also get less of a slingshot effect coming up the short incline which is why I was putting in some effort - you can pretty much maintain close to speed (30) up to where it flattens out.




Ventruck said:


> At first, I was assuming she stopped because she couldn't make up her mind on where to go, but then...Exactly what did she say to explain her stop? She saw you and...what? Well, point is, IF she did say it was because she saw you, then I have no clue where that explanation was going to be rational.
> 
> But yeah, that technically very avoidable. I'm not saying it in the sense you should've been in zone-Matrix mode, but it didn't look like you were being as cautious as you ideally should have. If I'm right, you were put in some effort make up for the incline. A bit much perhaps.


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## Cliff O (Feb 10, 2004)

I hate to blow your high, but from what I can see you were at fault. It doesn't matter if the driver stopped, it's your responsibility to drive or ride defensively and not rear end them. You were also in a right turn only lane, so if your intention was to do something other than turn right, you were violating the traffic laws. You should have been in the through lane on the left if you were traveling straight.

If it were me, I wouldn't be in that underpass in the first place. It doesn't look like a hospitable place for bicycles, and I value my skin. I'd either use that sidewalk I saw in your video at a reduced rate of speed, or find a different, safer route.


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## wipeout (Jun 6, 2005)

Cliff O said:


> I hate to blow your high, but from what I can see you were at fault. It doesn't matter if the driver stopped, it's your responsibility to drive or ride defensively and not rear end them. You were also in a right turn only lane, so if your intention was to do something other than turn right, you were violating the traffic laws. You should have been in the through lane on the left if you were traveling straight.
> 
> If it were me, I wouldn't be in that underpass in the first place. It doesn't look like a hospitable place for bicycles, and I value my skin. I'd either use that sidewalk I saw in your video at a reduced rate of speed, or find a different, safer route.


I agree with Cliff O here. Terrible road to cycle on and the cager chick looked like she was trying to avoid running you over if you intended to pass on her right.


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

Through lane. Hmmm technically that is the correct traffic rule thing to do and make sure I wouldn't be at fault if there were an accident. I take it you don't know this underpass? Getting to that through lane and going through there is definately not the safest thing to do. As far as it being a right turn lane, where the incident happened I sure can go straight since it is a right turn lane that feeds two right turns (see the sign at :05). Taking the sidewalk is dangerous even when walking because of tunnels coming from the train station that people fly out of on their bikes or even walking without looking. I agree with you, just not a good place to bike and there are other options that I will be taking from now on.


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## Cliff O (Feb 10, 2004)

dwgranda said:


> I take it you don't know this underpass?


I worked on University Avenue for a period of 3-4 years in the mid-80's, and I grew up in Los Altos. I moved to the East Bay 15 years ago, so I have no recent experience with that location. I wouldn't ride my bike on any of the Alma underpasses in Palo Alto (although I am not that familiar with the Embarcadero one and if someone else says its safe then I defer to their knowledge).


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## TiCruiser (Feb 21, 2009)

Thanks for sharing, the vid makes for nice discussion. It looks like you were riding at the pace of traffic so I would have been over in the through lane behind the black SUV. If that doesn't appeal to you, then at least in the left part of the turn lane which might have eased the ladies concern that you were going to cut up the right side. Otherwise, as I think you've already concluded, time to find a different way.

When you're busting down Ralston (looks like fun) you might consider getting out the center of the lane. If you are over scooting along the gutter at that speed it's very possible that someone pulling out from one of the two side streets you pass won't look far enough to the left to see you, especially if you are in the tree shadows. We had a guy killed in my locale a couple of years ago in almost this exact scenario.


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## tjjm36m3 (Mar 4, 2008)

Good Lord, riding on University Ave is a terrible idea especially going under the underpass. If my memory serves me correctly, I think once University Ave becomes Palm Dr and crosses El Camino, there are exit signs that either say "East" or "West" El Camino. Many drivers either become confused, distraught or something and I have seen drivers abruptly slow down to 5mph to make up their mind or figure which way is west and which way is east. I wouldn't recommend taking University Ave to get to Stanford. Glad to see you are ok though.


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## dwgranda (Sep 8, 2009)

Hah. This is another route I probably won't take again. That BMW going into the gas station was a real pucker causing moment since I knew he could also be slowing down to merge (what they usually do, but he was slowing down fast). 

When you're busting down Ralston (looks like fun) you might consider getting out the center of the lane. If you are over scooting along the gutter at that speed it's very possible that someone pulling out from one of the two side streets you pass won't look far enough to the left to see you, especially if you are in the tree shadows. We had a guy killed in my locale a couple of years ago in almost this exact scenario.[/QUOTE]


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## natrab (Jun 19, 2010)

That Ralston route also looked pretty nuts to me. I live on Ralson and ride it a lot more cautiously than you do. I imagined several instances of cars doing unexpected things that could have ended your life. Just saying, you should take this fall as a lesson in caution.

Love the footage though. I want to get one of those cams and record everything as well.


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## numbnutz (Mar 14, 2005)

i can't believe you posted that video of you doing something that lame. and you are videoing your rides apparently to document other scofflaws? i find that slightly ironic. sorry.


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