# God awful noise from SR cassette



## djrbikes (Feb 24, 2013)

Anyone else experiencing this? I'm on my second cassette, both have made a bad creaking sound particularly when climbing. Any ideas?


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Your lockring tight enough?


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

Try greasing the splines on the hub.


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## Got Time (Jan 23, 2009)

Yes, happened to me too... it took me while to figure out that is was the cassette.
When I replaced it with a Record cassette, the noise was gone.
Put the SR back on (same torque for locking): noisy.
Now here's the weird thing: I put the SR on a different wheel: no noise.
So far I have no idea what could be the cause for that.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

DrSmile said:


> Try greasing the splines on the hub.


No. You don't want to make the spline more prone to slippage. Cassettes should be installed clean and dry.
Nor will greasing mitigate a 'god awful' noise.

Something is wrong. OP...do you own a torque wrench? The lockring has a spec...40 N-m.

OP...do you know how to adjust the rear derailleur? You maybe between cogs.

You may have a combination of both above.

A SR cassette is one of the best Campy makes. It shouldn't make any noise.

PS: Your freehub may even be loose or have a bad bearing.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

roadworthy said:


> No. You don't want to make the spline more prone to slippage. Cassettes should be installed clean and dry.
> Nor will greasing mitigate a 'god awful' noise.


No offense, but if your cassette is "slipping" on a Campy hub something is very wrong. The splines will often make noise on the hub, and greasing the splines slightly will have absolutely no negative effects aside from getting the cassette a little greasy. I do agree that the hub may be the cause of the noise as well, plus about 30 other reasons (spokes rubbing, dropouts rubbing, skewer rubbing, chain lubrication issues, etc).


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## Donn12 (Apr 10, 2012)

I have the SR cassette on a zipp 303 and it is silent.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

DrSmile said:


> No offense, but if your cassette is "slipping" on a Campy hub something is very wrong. The splines will often make noise on the hub, and greasing the splines slightly will have absolutely no negative effects aside from getting the cassette a little greasy. I do agree that the hub may be the cause of the noise as well, plus about 30 other reasons (spokes rubbing, dropouts rubbing, skewer rubbing, chain lubrication issues, etc).


No offense taken because I know what I wrote is correct. If you have any doubt, send an email to Campag technical support and ask them. Cassettes should be installed dry to the freehub. It is needless to add lubrication which reduces static and dynamic friction between the cassette and freehub...why the spline exists...the cassette will not stay in place by virtue of pure axial loading of the lockring without the splines. Grease will only attract more dirt. 

Further, your advice is wrong because worse case, a slightly loose lockring and no grease between cassette and freehub with NOT create a god awful noise...only a modest creak at worst. With proper lockring torque there will be no noise.

So the OP's issue as I stated lies elsewhere. Either insufficient lockring torque or other hub or wheel related issues.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

roadworthy said:


> No offense taken because I know what I wrote is correct. If you have any doubt, send an email to Campag technical support and ask them. Cassettes should be installed dry to the freehub. It is needless to add lubrication which reduces static and dynamic friction between the cassette and freehub...why the spline exists...the cassette will not stay in place by virtue of pure axial loading of the lockring without the splines. Grease will only attract more dirt.
> 
> Further, your advice is wrong because worse case, a slightly loose lockring and no grease between cassette and freehub with NOT create a god awful noise...only a modest creak at worst. With proper lockring torque there will be no noise.
> 
> So the OP's issue as I stated lies elsewhere. Either insufficient lockring torque or other hub or wheel related issues.


Campy also recommends not greasing crank splines, but many people grease them anyways (me included). That doesn't mean anything will be damaged. With the Campy spline design it is impossible for the cassette/cogs to slip, one of the advantages over Shimano. I'm not sure what we're arguing about, you just said it creaks so... Happy Cycling!


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

DrSmile said:


> Campy also recommends not greasing crank splines, but many people grease them anyways (me included). That doesn't mean anything will be damaged. With the Campy spline design it is impossible for the cassette/cogs to slip, one of the advantages over Shimano. I'm not sure what we're arguing about, you just said it creaks so... Happy Cycling!


A simple quiz since you continue to argue the point... to see if you qualify for further discussion. 
What is the fundamental difference between the benefit of greasing a crank spline like say Campy Power Torque or even Campy square taper...and greasing the spline of a freehub?
Let's see if you understand why grease has benefit in one application and not the other.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

roadworthy said:


> A simple quiz since you continue to argue the point... to see if you qualify for further discussion.
> What is the fundamental difference between the benefit of greasing a crank spline like say Campy Power Torque or even Campy square taper...and greasing the spline of a freehub?
> Let's see if you understand why grease has benefit in one application and not the other.


Sigh. So you've never had an aluminum splined hub then? Good luck getting those cogs off.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

DrSmile said:


> Sigh. So you've never had an aluminum splined hub then? Good luck getting those cogs off.


Fail. You don't know the answer, nor do I expect you to as few do.
I have likely owned and worked on more bikes Campy and otherwise than any 10 people on this forum...lol.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

roadworthy said:


> Fail. You don't know the answer, nor do I expect you to as few do.
> I have likely owned and worked on more bikes Campy and otherwise than any 10 people on this forum...lol.


Good for you. Begs the question though, why did the individual ones not last that long?

Sorry for the cheap shot.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

DrSmile said:


> Good for you. Begs the question though, why did the individual ones not last that long?
> 
> Sorry for the cheap shot.


You had to...in small measure compensation for not knowing the answer.
And of course, guys like you don't know because you don't deserve the answer. But you know that. So grease it up bro...how you roll...lol.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

Let's wait and see what the OP and others have to say.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

DrSmile said:


> Let's wait and see what the OP and others have to say.


Why? I am just correcting your false assertion that greasing will help. It won't. Campy doesn't spec grease for the exterior of their freehubs. Their development testing including thousands of miles of owner's SR bikes on the road including mine without grease being dead quiet are testament. If a lockring is properly torqued, a cassette cannot slip or creak on the freehub.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

roadworthy said:


> Why? I am just correcting your false assertion that greasing will help. It won't. Campy doesn't spec grease for the exterior of their freehubs. Their development testing including thousands of miles of owner's SR bikes on the road including mine without grease being dead quiet are testament. If a lockring is properly torqued, a cassette cannot slip or creak on the freehub.


So now you're contradicting yourself, earlier admitting that it will creak. You also admitted that you agree it is ok to go against Campy no grease recommendations. Just not for cassettes. Are you seriously still claiming that the cassette will slip? I tire of you. Move along.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

DrSmile said:


> So now you're contradicting yourself, earlier admitting that it will creak. You also admitted that you agree it is ok to go against Campy no grease recommendations. Just not for cassettes. Are you seriously still claiming that the cassette will slip? I tire of you. Move along.


Hilarious. Does your denial really run this deep or you simply obfuscating to justify your posts. If you had a clue of what the purpose of grease is, you could differentiate between why grease can quell noise in a crank and it is ineffective with a cassette interface to a freehub. But you can't because you don't understand the physics. I will give you a hint. The difference is rooted to fluid mechanics. But you never studied that in school did you? Of course not.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

Your reality differs greatly from mine but then again:



roadworthy said:


> You did not confuse me as I am not easily confused.


I realize you're not exactly modest. 99% of people (ie everyone except you) who grease their square tapered BB splines do so to seat the crank fully and to be able to remove the crank without stripping the threads in the BB. I'll gladly skip whatever ludicrous alternative reason you come up with.


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## carbonLORD (Aug 2, 2004)

roadworthy said:


> Hilarious. Does your denial....


Shhhh.

Seriously.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

DrSmile said:


> Your reality differs greatly from mine but then again:
> 
> 
> 
> I realize you're not exactly modest. 99% of people (ie everyone except you) who grease their square tapered BB splines do so to seat the crank fully and to be able to remove the crank without stripping the threads in the BB. I'll gladly skip whatever ludicrous alternative reason you come up with.


Pretty hard to be modest when somebody like yourself adheres to a convention without understanding its foundation. Kind of like respecting guys who believe in witchcraft...lol. And of course you are completely wrong why grease works for square taper. Drawing a square taper spider deeper due to reduced coefficient of friction has been as destructive to chain line as it has been to improve retention and why the ambivalence of using grease. 

But since you really don't know why grease is productive with a square taper and not with a cassette, I will tell you against my better instincts to not help a student unwilling to learn. The reason is quite simple. Grease is a fluid. And grease is a very viscous fluid. So why is it favorable? Because with a press fit be it spline, taper or even straight press, the volume of fluid is trapped. It is a closed volume. Why does this matter? Because fluid like grease and even less viscous oil and even water are all incompressible. So what do you get with a closed volume and captured incompressible fluid? Hydraulic lock. Neither the female square taper hole or the mating spindle square taper can differentiate between captured fluid and mating alloy. Fluid is that rigid under pressure when captured. What fluid does is dramatically increase line to line agreement between female spider and left crank arm tapered hole and tapered spindle thereby making the interface more solid when assembled with axial force per the attaching bolt. This is what eliminates problematic creaking of square taper and why grease and even anti-seize are beneficial to quieting a pesky square taper crank.

So lets see if you have learned anything...begrudgingly. Why is it grease is superfluous between cassette and freehub body? The answer is quite simple based upon the above.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

I have learned that you think the concept of hydraulic lock is somehow a higher intellectual concept. And in my humble opinion, it has absolutely nothing to do with square taper cranks because the crank is held in place by physical contact. The grease is immaterial except for installation and removal. Just like your idea of a spinning cassette on splines, this doesn't happen when the two pieces are properly mated and do not move relative to each other. 

My guess is that you learned about hydrolock because you flooded your motorcycle engine.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

DrSmile said:


> I have learned that you think the concept of hydraulic lock is somehow a *higher intellectual concept.*
> 
> My guess is that you learned about hydrolock because you flooded your motorcycle engine.


It is for you.  You can't fathom the concept even when spelled out to you. You can't even be correct when being obtuse. My motorcycle is EFI and it doesn't flood. In fact, I create my own custom A/F maps. You don't know how to do that either. 

I will leave you with your simple view. Life is easier that way isn't it?
Remember...everything is better with grease. Why? because that's what daddy told me.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

You're right, I haven't seen a map like that... since 2006 which is the last time I reflashed the ecu on my Evo IX on the dyno. Welcome to seven years ago when race gas became expensive. The smart people moved on to electric... or bicycles.

What exactly this nonsense has to do with greasing a cassette I have no idea.


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## ejprez (Nov 9, 2006)

"What exactly this nonsense has to do with greasing a cassette I have no idea."

That's easy, it's about winning the argument…despite going of on a tangent or even if wrong. Have had similar arguments with people, like over bottom brackets, ugh. :mad2: And yes it is impossible to have campy cogs slip on campy splines, even with grease.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

ejprez said:


> "What exactly this nonsense has to do with greasing a cassette I have no idea."
> 
> That's easy, it's about winning the argument…despite going of on a tangent or even if wrong. Have had similar arguments with people, like over bottom brackets, ugh. :mad2: And yes it is impossible to have campy cogs slip on campy splines, even with grease.


What's funny about your response is...I showed an A/F table because of his ridiculous analogy to motorcycle flooding but you ended up proving my point which started this debacle. Grease does not affect slippage with proper lockring torque. That is precisely the point. It has NO bearing on the OP's issue. None. Zero. Grease will NOT mitigate a 'God awful' noise. Campy does NOT spec grease for the assembly of a cassette to a freehub. He is wrong and if you agree with him, you are wrong...lol. 
As to winning an argument on the internet, there is little hope. When there is more than 30 IQ points between posters, there isn't a lot to talk about and dumb guys tend to stick together and hence your post.


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## carbonLORD (Aug 2, 2004)

roadworthy said:


> ... you ended up proving my point which started this debacle.


In short, don't feed the troll guys, c'mon.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

carbonLORD said:


> In short, don't feed the troll guys, c'mon.


You do see the irony of your post don't you? Of course you don't.
You are by definition trolling. You offer no substance to the thread whatsoever. 

Moderator(s) if you see this ludicrous string of drivel, please delete it.
Especially the part where adding grease to the freehub will help the OP...lol.


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## carbonLORD (Aug 2, 2004)

roadworthy said:


> You do see...


It's unfortunate you cannot _see_ where I am coming from.

My only contribution to this thread is to politely ask you to stop posting in it.


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## djrbikes (Feb 24, 2013)

Back to my bike. Both cassettes were professionally installed by a Pinarello shop. I was told that there is a defect that Campy knows about with the titanium cogs.


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## carbonLORD (Aug 2, 2004)

My reluctance to "contribute" previously stemmed from a certain individual that doesn't seem to have his lock-rings tightened fully, but now that we've crossed paths I may as well add my ¢0.02...

I have tried both, grease on a Shimano cassette body and none. Really depends on the material of the cassette body. Alloy creak, steel seats and gouges.

Ive really found no reason to grease the Campy splines as they are more robust but I could understand where one might try it to alleviate noise. I'd probably look at the interface of the cassette itself first, making sure that plastic spacer is intact and also confirming the clean engagement of the cassette body to the wheel (the pawls) before I cited the interface between the cassette body and cassette as the culprit.

I guess I could sort through the muck but what wheel, what year, what cassette (model year)?

It could very well be that the noise is emanating elsewhere.

One things for sure, listening to endless motorcycle and self proclaimed IQ nonsense is not the answer anyone was looking for and definitely not a worthwhile contribution to your post so I hope others can help.

Keep us posted, please.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

carbonLORD said:


> It's unfortunate you cannot _see_ where I am coming from.
> 
> My only contribution to this thread is to *politely ask you to stop posting in it*.


No, I do see where you are coming from. You are coming from a place of ignorance. Your request is without foundation. Why? Because you are trolling and I explained to you why you are trolling. Because you are insinuating yourself *without any attempt to respond to the OP*. Nor have you technically rebutted what I wrote because you can't. It is you who are lowering the decorum here. For you of all people to ask me to not post is absurd. In fact, it could be argued that your 'polite' request is more toxic than the smiley giving the OP bad information. At least he is trying to help the OP even though his advice is misguided.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

carbonLORD said:


> My reluctance to "contribute" previously stemmed from a certain individual that doesn't seem to have his lock-rings tightened fully, but now that we've crossed paths I may as well add my ¢0.02...
> 
> I have tried both, grease on a Shimano cassette body and none. Really depends on the material of the cassette body. Alloy creak, steel seats and gouges.
> 
> ...


Even though you are trying to help, your post is muddied with misinformation. Campy's splines are no more robust than Shimano's....period. Neither manufacturer spec's grease for their freehubs because it isn't necessary and even counterproductive to stability of the cassette with tolerance on mating male splined freehub...especially with low side lock ring torque. It has no bearing on freehub or cassette material.
Your non-sentence "Alloy creak, steel seats and gouges." is unintelligible and has no relevance.

But...you finally are migrating to what I stated from the outset, the OP's 'God awful' noise is unrelated to greasing the freehub. His issue lies with either poor adjustment of his rear derailleur...even possibly his rear derailleur pulley contacting a cassette cog or another wheel related mal function. Nothing to do with grease.
It could even be freehub pawls slipping which you bring up. So you are at least on the right track with a little bit of help.


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## djrbikes (Feb 24, 2013)

Two different wheels: about a one year old Carbon Corima and a brand new Mavic Ksyrium Elite. Both cassettes are 12-27. The 12-25 I have which is Record seems much quiter. The mechanic at the shop, who is quite good, isolated the noise to the cassette. First one was sent back to Campy as defective. The second one is a replacement from the shop.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

djrbikes said:


> Two different wheels: about a one year old Carbon Corima and a brand new Mavic Ksyrium Elite. Both cassettes are 12-27. The 12-25 I have which is Record seems much quiter. The mechanic at the shop, who is quite good, isolated the noise to the cassette. First one was sent back to Campy as defective. The second one is a replacement from the shop.


Good info. I will tell you that driveline set up is nuanced. It takes skill to set one up right. Sound issues is many times set up error. There may or may not be an issue with that cassette that was returned. If cogs are not deformed or spacers broken, only possibility would be the larger cog carrier which attaches largest cogs is defective. Generally the compression of the lockring will keep largest cogs quiet however even if the cassette carrier is marginal.

I will share something that many don't know about Campy cassettes. 
Campy uses a graduated pull ratio on their 10 and 11s groupsets...shifter detent wheel has graduated spacing...larger for largest cogs. What this mandates is...spacer width between cogs is not uniform from smallest to largest cogs. All you have to do is mix up one of the wider spacers with a thinner one when building the cassette. This is easy to do and in fact I would say most that start to work on Campy do this by accident and learn this lesson the hard way. This really messes of shift quality of course because cog spacing is thrown off. And yes, a poorly adjusted derailleur can cause a god awful racket under load with chain skipping and slipping due to improper cog spacing. 
Last note and less important is...cassette material changes the sound of a driveline. This is very small but noticeable to those that are sensitive.
Reason is...Record cassettes are Ti which has a different resonant frequency than alloy. But this really has little to do with any 'god awful' noises...as low end Mirage and Veloce cassettes are generally quite silent when properly adjusted.

Last point OP is...if you are getting noise on a given wheelsets since you reference two wheelsets...have your mechanic check for freehub axial play. You may have a bad bearing in the freehub...or the freehub maybe physically loose.


See below for Campy cassette spacer position:


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## carbonLORD (Aug 2, 2004)

I _was_ going to post a smiley.


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## carbonLORD (Aug 2, 2004)

roadworthy said:


> So you are at least on the right track with a little bit of help.


I'll take that as a compliment.


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## carbonLORD (Aug 2, 2004)

This is much better then motorcycle and IQ ratings... Just sayin.

Good post.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

carbonLORD said:


> This is much better then motorcycle and IQ ratings... Just sayin.
> 
> Good post.


The internet is both a blessing and a curse as you know. The reality is...everybody that comes to a Campy groupset forum, loves cycling and maybe has a passion for Campy as well. Some of us are old men and even grew up riding Campy bikes. In other words, we have way more in common than we have differences. If face to face we would all try to outride one another and then go have lunch and swap stories like friends do. Any yet the internet can be as hateful as it is a wonderful resource to expand knowledge which it does exponentially.


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## ejprez (Nov 9, 2006)

carbonLORD said:


> In short, don't feed the troll guys, c'mon.


Actually feeding the troll is probably the right thing to do. Let the troll know he is the smartest person in the world with ridiculously high IQ and had the best charts and graphs ever, LOL. The most superior intellect and is never wrong about anything...That way he'll be silent. The Pope of all things cycling.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

ejprez said:


> *Actually feeding the troll *is probably the right thing to do. Let the troll know he is the smartest person in the world with ridiculously high IQ and had the best charts and graphs ever, LOL. The most superior intellect and is never wrong about anything...That way he'll be silent. The Pope of all things cycling.


Thanks for the right of passage. I do enjoy feeding trolls like yourself. You are like my straight man and good entertainment aka background music ancillary to the OP's plight to fix his bike. 

Sorry to continue to disagree with you as you disparage my cassette chart which has more significance to the OP than any of your trolling posts with nothing to offer. On a substantive note, there is a notable exception to high IQ people being right about things. Look no further than the guy behind the most ill fated legislation ever to befall the American people accounting for 1/6 of the US economy. He purports to have a high IQ but many including me take exception to this.


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## ejprez (Nov 9, 2006)

Yes you are the smartest person I've ever met, probably know thousands of ways to please a woman and have a chart to prove it. I hope I can be half the man you are someday when I grow up

Weird me not having anything to offer this post yet you were the one that took it motorcycles and now politics. For someone who is incredibly smart it is strange you have nothing better to than respond to us mere uneducated, low IQ, riff raff.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

ejprez said:


> Yes you are the smartest person I've ever met, probably know thousands of ways to please a woman and have a chart to prove it. I hope I can be half the man you are someday when I grow up
> 
> Weird me not having anything to offer this post yet you were the one that took it motorcycles and now politics. For someone who is incredibly smart it is strange you have nothing better to than respond to us mere uneducated, low IQ, riff raff.


Thanks. Been told this before and hence my lack of ego.  I am mechanically gifted...always have been from a young age. And my parents encouraged it right through engineering school.

Since I have your respect, please listen to the following. I find a correlation between those with poor reading comprehension having poor judgement. There are many reasons for this. For example, your extrapolation that I took conversation to motorcycling. I did not. Dr. Smiley took it to motorcycling and I responded to him. As to politics, it is a metaphoric reference to high IQ guys making good judgements. Not always the case...our POTUS being a sorry example. I was responding to yet another false assertion you made.


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## ejprez (Nov 9, 2006)

Actually I was being sarcastic :thumbsup:


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

ejprez said:


> Actually I was being sarcastic :thumbsup:


Re-read my post. I knew you were you see. Sarcasm in your case is a crutch. That is all you have. You are only here to troll and not contribute. You have nothing to offer but petty criticism and hence my responses.


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## ejprez (Nov 9, 2006)

Yeah duh... I'm a troll with a low IQ


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

DrSmile said:


> Sigh. So you've never had an aluminum splined hub then? Good luck getting those cogs off.


I've been riding Campagnolo aluminum splined hubs since they discontinued my favorite 8 speed cassette around 2000 and never had any problems or noticed any dents when I've had things apart for service.

The second time Campagnolo tried alloy freehubs with Record Titanium 8 speed they switched to much deeper splines which don't dent like Shame-I-Know. Campagnolo 9/10/11 speed freehubs use the same splines plus a half-step that makes things easier to line up visually.


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