# Cannondale Synapse to Cannondale SuperSix Hi-Mod Please Help!



## davidgator (May 19, 2008)

I currently ride a 2007 Cannondale Synapse all carbon frame. I find this bike to be extremely comfortable and am very happy on it. For my 45th birthday present, my wife wants to buy me a new bike and I'm thinking about the Cannnondale SuperSix Hi-Mod. My problems are (i) I cannot find a dealer that has a SuperSix for me to try before I buy so I would totally have to buy it without trying the bike first and (ii) assuming it does fit me well, I do not if I will truly notice enough of a difference to justify the $6,000 and (iii) currently, I can ride for 3 hours on Saturday and still look forward to my Sunday ride without any pains from the bike other than simple muscle soreness from the workout (the Synapse is otherwise so comfortable). My goal, of course, is a bike that is faster and admittedly some additional bling factor. 

So my real questions are do you think I'll notice a huge difference between the 2 bikes and would you recommend this switch. Before you recommend other high-end bikes and tell me to test ride those, please know that I can't find dealers that will let me test ride the other brands either. One of the main reasons that I'm thinking of staying with Cannondale is that I think the Cannondale will fit me based on my Synapse experience.

I value the opinions of the users of this site and appreciate your thoughts. Thank you.


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## kbg (Jun 23, 2009)

The two will fit quite differently - the synapse has a taller head tube, among other differences. Check the geometry numbers on the Cannondale website to see what I mean.


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## fontarin (Mar 28, 2009)

Geometry is going to put you in a more aggressive position. Assuming you're healthy with no pain, back problems, etc, you can probably adjust - can't say whether you'll find it as comfortable though.

Honestly, if it's going to set you back 6k, you should call any dealer within 8 hours of you to see if you can find a test ride.


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## kini (Feb 19, 2010)

Why not get the Synapse Hi-MOD 1? Geometry same or nearly the same as what your riding. 

Gene


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## kbhenze (Apr 12, 2009)

kini said:


> Why not get the Synapse Hi-MOD 1? Geometry same or nearly the same as what your riding.
> 
> Gene


:thumbsup: +++++


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## davidgator (May 19, 2008)

I agree that the Synapse Hi-Mod 1 may make the most sense. I guess I was hoping to gain a little speed over the Synapse with a more aggressive bike. Thanks for the input and I will take your recommendation seriously.


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## fallzboater (Feb 16, 2003)

Get yourself some custom wheels with Edge 45 rims, and take her on a nice vacation.


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## davidgator (May 19, 2008)

"take her on a nice vacation" Do you mean my wife or my bike?

I appreciate the help so far, but does any one have thoughts on whether or not you think I'll notice a big difference in speed or comfort between the Synapse and the Super Six?

Thanks


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## topflightpro (Nov 3, 2004)

Your speed has more to do with your legs than your bike.

Yes, the fit difference would put you in a slightly more aggressive position that would allow you to be a little more aerodynamic and perhaps able to put out a little more power. But you're not suddenly going to be noticeably faster.

And truthfully, if you're not comfortable on the bike, you won't go any faster or any farther.


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

"Get yourself some custom wheels with Edge 45 rims" best suggestion out of the bunch. Spend the rest on a custom frame and either transfer components or go new.


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## sixgears (Apr 1, 2009)

*Re: ...*

FWIW ... I used to ride a more "compliant" bike, two in fact, from other manufacturers and I switched over to the SuperSix Hi-Mod frame and it was TOTALLY different. The SuperSix will definitely put you into a more aggressive position but can be adjusted based on the build. I used to think that the bike was a bit big for me even though the geometry says that this is my size. After a few tweaks with saddle height, stem size and handlebar adjustments I think I've finally achieved what I wanted.


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## davidgator (May 19, 2008)

Thank you for your help. Beautiful SuperSix! When you say TOTALLY different, was it TOTALLY different in a good way. As in you are glad you made the switch? Or in a bad way? I went back and forth this weekend about 20 times between the Synapse and the SuperSix and can't decide and cannot find a dealer with a SuperSix in stock for me to try. Please tell me what you think about making the switch. I'm frankly terrified that I'm going to drop all this money and then 3 months later regret the purchase AND have to face the wife.


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## sixgears (Apr 1, 2009)

At first I thought I made a mistake. I actually wanted to sell the bike right away but at that time I still had my other bike so I was constantly comparing the ride quality. I then made the decision to keep riding the SuperSix, adjusting where I needed and felt could do some good. Although not as compliant it is not a harsh ride at all especially with a few tweaks. I never got used to the Fizik saddle so I got rid of that. I took a look at my fit diagram and adjusted where I needed. Now I just hop on it and go. 

I too was on the fence between the Synapse and the SuperSix. I don't think the Synapse will hold you back as far as performance - just a bit more "cushion" compared to the SuperSix which is super stiff. The bling factor is definitely there if that's what you're looking for.


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## murph100 (Jul 2, 2009)

How much spacers do you have under the stem on your Synapse ?


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## davidgator (May 19, 2008)

I currently have 3 1.2 spacers and the LBS that fitted me after I bought the Synapse used replaced the stem with one that is tilted up even more that usual. I think the problem is that my current bike is 56cm and I believe I really need at 58cm with longer headtube.


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## murph100 (Jul 2, 2009)

I should have also asked what length stem are you running at the moment ?


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## AlexCad5 (Jan 2, 2005)

davidgator said:


> I currently have 3 1.2 spacers and the LBS that fitted me after I bought the Synapse used replaced the stem with one that is tilted up even more that usual. I think the problem is that my current bike is 56cm and I believe I really need at 58cm with longer headtube.



Okay, There are two factors working here, and you have to understand their relationship to one another (which I'm assuming you don't based on the above comment)

A tall head tube reduces "reach" and will raise your shoulder/head position.
A longer top tube or a longer stem will increase your reach and lower your head/shoulder position.


When your LBS put you on a 56cm, gave you a stem that "is tilted up even more than usual" they were trying to reduce your reach and get your head and shoulders up higher.

To go with a 58 will increase your reach (obviously the opposite of what your LBS was trying to accomplish for you.)

To go with a super six, will lower your head and shoulders and increase your reach.
This may not be a good thing for you. Before you do that, I would suggest buying a couple of stems for your current bike to change your position - before investing a lot of money in a bike that may not fit you all that well.

1) get a stem at the same length as your current stem, but with no rise (flipped down) and remove all but one of the spacers. This will increase your reach and get your head and shoulders down. Ride that for a couple of days. See how that feels.

2) get a stem that is 1cm longer than the stem above. That will move your reach out further. How does that feel? 

Once you figure out what fits you, you can subtract the amount of spacers you have removed, and the change of rise from your current rig to see if the Super Six will fit.

Remember that your reach will remain constant, regardless of how high or low your bars are: Think of reach as an arc from the seat post.

Think the geometry through very carefully, before buying anything. Once you buy, it's only worth about half of it's purchase price.

Good Luck


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## murph100 (Jul 2, 2009)

+1 on Alex's post, exactly what I was getting at. From the sounds of your current setup on the Synapse you may actually need a frame with a taller headtube and the same size toptube, so you can get rid of some spacers and flip the stem down, only way to get a frame with these dimensions is to go custom build.

The SuperSix geometry is definitely not going to fit you, and will handle like crap if you try putting tons of spacers on and flipping stems. FWIW the SuperSix geometry doesn't suit me either, I've got pretty good flexibility but really long legs and a short torso & reach, so I need a tall headtube or my knees hit off my chest when in the drops.

Try working on your flexibility for a month and see if you can do what Alex suggests. If you can reduce the spacers and flip the stem, your current Synapse will handle a whole pile better, I really dont think switching to the Hi Mod Synapse is gonna blow you away, better ways to spend $6,000, bling wheels and or custom frame would be better bang for your buck, you could probably get a custom Viner Perfecta handmade in Italy for around $4k, it will fit you like a glove and handle like a dream.

Best of luck,

Murph


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## davidgator (May 19, 2008)

Wow. You guys are good! Here is what I know about my fit. Please also understand that I HAVE paid 2 local bike shops for a complete fitting so it is not that I'm trying to avoid supporting my the local bike shops in my area. The basic issue I'm having is the local bike shops do not stock the expensive bikes so that I can't try them. 

Here goes: I have an inseam of a little over 34 inches and am a hair over 6 feet tall. My reach/flexibility may require a bit shorter of a reach (at least that how it appears based on the input from AlexCad5 and Murph100 and the bits and pieces the two local bike shops that did the fittting seem to be saying). I think my inseam of a little over 34 inches tells me I need a 58 in most bikes. 

However, the Cannondale Synapse that I am currently riding is a 56 (I was told it was a 58 when I purchased it) and the local bike shop, when doing the fitting for over $100, swaped out the stem for one that tilted up and raised my handle bars because they now tell me that they thought the headtube was too short. Just like murp100 guessed, prior to this swap, my knees would hit my gut/chest when in the drops and I'm thin (6 feet tall and 165 pounds so it's not like I have a big gut). This local bike shop does not sell Cannondale and is unwilling to do a fitting and then stand behind a recommendation for a bike that they do not carry. I actually respect their position.

So, last week I went to local bike shop #2 that is a Cannondale Dealer. I was honest and told him that I wanted to be fitted, but was unsure whether I'd be buying a new or used bike. We agreed that I'd pay him $100 for the fitting and to get his recommendation which would be refunded if I purchased a new bike from him. He spent about an hour with me taking all sorts of measurements using special tools. He then recommended a 54cm bike. He did not have a 54cm for me to try, but expressed confidence that he could make it fit me well. However, when I went to 3 other Cannondale dealers this weekend (none of whom stock a 56 or 58, they ALL thought the 54 was a ridiculous recommendation for me and recommended a 58 - but they honestly spent less than 10 minutes with me making that decision because they were busy. One bike shop did have a 54 Synapse and he thought it was way too small on me and recommended a 58.

Hopefully, you understand my confusion. So bottomline is that I am a little over 6 feet tall, have an inseam of a little over 34 inches, currently have 56 Synapse on which the professional fitter replaced the stem to, accordinging to AlexCad5, reduce my reach, and because the thought the headtube was too short. One professional fitter says I need a 54. All the other bike shops, after a quick sizing, and say I need a 58 and that a 54 is WAY too small. No dealer within 100 miles stocks the synapse or supersix in a 56 or 58.

Please help. David


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## murph100 (Jul 2, 2009)

OK gotcha loud and clear BUT I need to know what size stem you're running right now.

Murph


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## davidgator (May 19, 2008)

Murhph,

Sorry for not including that information. Here is all the information I have with me based on the fit information I received from the LBS that actually adjusted my current Synapse:

The stem length is 110. 
The seat post set back is 2.7.
The seat tube length is 59 "c to top"
Top tube is 56
Top of saddle to top of bar differential is 54
Saddle height (center of BB to tope of saddle) 78.2
Center of seat is 3mm back from center.


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## murph100 (Jul 2, 2009)

Cool, well first off I have to say this is only my opinion and a real expert bike fitter might advise you otherwise but here goes :

I'm a hair under 6' ( ie if I stand straight I hit the 6'  )

My inseam is almost 35" ( I know, I know, would have made a great bird !  )

I ride a Gallium Pro Medium, a 56 actual horizontal TT is 555mm, the headtube with the 3D thingy is 172mm and I have 10mm a spacer under the stem. My stem is 100mm and is a standard 6 degree pointing down.

So just going on your info, I'd say a 56 is the right frame size for you, the 58 would stretch you out way too much forcing you to run a 90mm stem to compensate and that would not be the best for the bike handling, it would also wreck your neck and shoulders.

It sound to me like you have some flexibility problem so I think your first priority before getting a new frame/bike would be to sort out your flexibility and core strength, it will cost you nothing and so wonders for your cycling. Then you can make a better decision on frame geometry.

I'm 42, skinny & lanky and I always HATED stretching, but in 2 months I've gone from not being able to touch my toes to almost getting my palms flat down, core strength has gone way up and as a result I'm able to get a much better position on the bike and be comfy all day. 

Regarding your knees hitting your chest, I'm a bit mystified on that one as I'm the freak with the long legs and dont have that problem running a much lower setup than yours, yeah my knees might touch my torso when in ' chin on the stem ' position but even then its not a problem.

I've noticed that your seat height is pretty high, so you might be pedaling toes down to compensate, check your foot angle at the top of the stroke and make sure its level, if its pointing down, your knees will hit your torso.

Last point, want to go faster ? ... get a good coach, plain and simple, that will do way more for your speed and position than any hi-mod uni mono aero bling bling uberlight mega buck crap will ever do !  


All the best,

Murph :thumbsup:


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## davidgator (May 19, 2008)

Murph,

First off, THANK YOU!! I very much appreciate you taking so much time to try an help me.

To clarify, my knees did not hit my chest, but my quads would hit my stomach.

My big disappointment is that your advice seems to be that for my 45th birthday, I can't simply get a new bike wiht lots of bling and instead have to do stretching exercises and that I can't blame my bike for not being able to keep up with the A+ group for 35 miles. 

Again, Murph, thank you.

Any other toughts from Murhp or other posters would be appreciated.


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## murph100 (Jul 2, 2009)

Heh, sorry about that David  

By all means get a new bike, its good for the soul and great for the ego, I know, I only got my Gallium Pro a few weeks back and built it up with Super Record, talk about a waste of a good bike 

Still get brought back down to earth when older Vets whizz past me on 20 year old steel bikes  

Anyhow back to your original post, the SuperSix is not gonna fit you, I'd go for a custom for that kind of money but better again, $6k would get you and your wife to France for a week in Bordeaux and also catch a stage of the TDF something epic like the Col du Tourmalet, now THAT would be a way to celebrate your 45th :thumbsup:


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## dcuper1 (Nov 4, 2009)

I am also exactly 6ft tall, long legs, short torso, and ride a 56 top tube. I used to have a 58 and was way too stretched out. The 56 is perfect for me.

If you really want to buy a new bike I would also suggest custom.


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## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

Have you tried a CAAD9? Same geometry to the SuperSix, so it should give a good idea of fit, at least for sizing purposes.

Even without seeing you, if you're about 6' tall, the 54 is too small. I'm almost 6'1" and I like my 58 Synapse. 56 or 58 for you, either could probably be fitted to work.


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## SwooshDaddy (May 8, 2009)

Not sure if this helps, but here goes.

I'm 5' 9" with a 30" inseam. I was fitted with a Synapse 54, 110 stem that they "flipped" to make the bars sit a tad lower. Everything else is stock, from the 2009 specs. When doing my shopping/fitting, I tried a bunch of different brands and models, like C'dale, Trek, Look and Specialized, and in every case, a 56 was just too big for me. I really liked the 54 SuperSix, but since this is my first Road bike, comfort was a higher priority than speed.


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## fa63 (Aug 16, 2007)

davidgator said:


> Here goes: I have an inseam of a little over 34 inches and am a hair over 6 feet tall. My reach/flexibility may require a bit shorter of a reach (at least that how it appears based on the input from AlexCad5 and Murph100 and the bits and pieces the two local bike shops that did the fittting seem to be saying). I think my inseam of a little over 34 inches tells me I need a 58 in most bikes.


I am 6'0" with a 34" inseam, and have reach issues as well due to somewhat shorter arms. After playing with my fit once piece at a time for a while, I have settled on a frame with a 55 cm effective top tube but a tallish ~17.5 cm head tube and a slack 72.5 degree head tube angle. You have to step up to a 58cm frame on a SuperSix to get the same head tube length, but then you would have reach issues and would require a 80-90mm stem which looks out of place on a race-oriented bike.

If you really want a new bike, consider custom as has been suggested. A Carl Strong custom titanium or stainless steel frame would fit the bill nicely.


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## AlexCad5 (Jan 2, 2005)

I'd have to agree there is no way a 54 will fit you. I'm shorter than you and 54cm are really too small for me (because the head tubes are too short) 

1) don't confuse reach with flexibility. Your reach will not change unless you grow more.
Flexibility will allow you to go lower, but it won't allow you to reach farther without numbness and or back pain.

The best thing for you to do is experiment with the bike you have. Remove a couple of spacers from below the stem and put it on top of the stem. This will do two things. It will increase your reach and lower your handlebars. Is it comfortable to ride in this position? In the hoods and the drops? If the answer is no, then you need to figure out is it a reach problem or drop problem or both?
Try changing one or two variables at a time. Figure out what your ideal reach is, then measure it. That will be what your reach needs to be regardless of the hight of bars.
Remember if you drop your bars, to maintain the same reach you will have to bring the bars in closer, either by changing the stem, or the bars (all bars have different dimensions and choosing the right bars is an enormous element of fit.)


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## bigreen505 (Jun 10, 2007)

davidgator said:


> Murhph,
> 
> Sorry for not including that information. Here is all the information I have with me based on the fit information I received from the LBS that actually adjusted my current Synapse:
> 
> ...


Oh, I get it, you're built like me. Ideally I need a bike with a 58 seat tube with a steep angle), 54 top tube and about 18 head tube. Honestly with the numbers you listed, a 56 Synapse isn't a bad way to go. If you are set on buying a new bike, do yourself a favor and go custom Ti. For $6,000 you might as well have something that really fits.

FWIW, I wouldn't rule out the recommendation to go with a 54, especially on a compact frame. If you have long arms the drop may not be a huge deal, but if you have a stiff back and short torso you can only reach so far. Worth a try, but don't buy until you have ridden one.

Sticking with your original question about Cannondales, the Six is a much quicker handling bike where the Synapse is more for open road. Personally, I have never been a fan of very quick bikes (Trek) and Serotta has always been my benchmark. If you generally like the fit and handling of the Synapse, just want a frame with a little more power transfer go with the Hi-Mod. If you are dissatisfied with the Synapse in fit and handling, go custom.


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## Bentley88 (Jul 16, 2014)

If your a long distance rider stick with the synapse. 2015 carbon nano black edition di2 and discs is launching this august. Same spec as the carbon 71 sold in 2013/4


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## kps88 (Dec 3, 2013)

davidgator said:


> "take her on a nice vacation" Do you mean my wife or my bike?
> 
> I appreciate the help so far, but does any one have thoughts on whether or not you think I'll notice a big difference in speed or comfort between the Synapse and the Super Six?
> 
> Thanks


Ok, I sorta had this question a while back. I'm 43 and in decent/good shape. I had a 2012 secteur. Weighed about 19#'s and aluminum. Had it for a year before I decided to get a carbon bike (just started riding last year). I bought a non-hi mod super six evo with ultegra 6800 (11speed). 

1. Weighed 3#'s less...definitely faster. Broke all my PR segments on Strava...more than once and right away. 
2. No more twitchiness. Supersix much more stable and handles much better.
3. Looks SWEET
4. However, I could ride 5/6 hours on Secteur with no back, neck and shoulder pain. 50+ miles..no problem. But once I get over 40 miles or 3 plus hours I get a little stiff on the SuperSix. Most of my rides are 25/35 miles, so no real issues. But if you CONSISTENTLY ride 40+ miles or 3 hours/more than the new synapse that was recommended will be nice upgrade as well. The body and drivetrain is a big upgrade to your current one.


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## Jon D (Apr 11, 2011)

One suggestion is get a in depth fit like a Retul [yes they cost] but they measure a lot of variables and will create the best measurements for your body based on it's current flexibility and capability. I agree with the above regarding frame size - my bet is a 56 is right but the stack and reach are off. It also could be another frame mfg has a size that fits better. I went from a 56 Synapse a couple of years ago to a 56 Domane and we from what I thought was good fit to a great one. The frame geometry is just enough different that it works significantly better for me. So if your set on a new bike like I was.. find the one that fits right and feels right don't lock yourself into a specific manufacture as all the top brands are fine.


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## mik_git (Jul 27, 2012)

I dunno, but I think maybe the guy bought his bike already, like 4 years ago... maybe an update from the OP would be better than more advice...


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

mik_git said:


> I dunno, but I think maybe the guy bought his bike already, like 4 years ago...


Gold Star earned!


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