# HID vs LED in the rain?



## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

I use a Cateye Doubleshot light, which, if I'm not mistaken, is 2 LED's of a little over 2 watts each. It provides plenty of light and then some to see in the dark with when it's just me.

This morning, though, going down a 50mph road with no streetlights and lots of rain, I felt a little concerned. The reflection of all of the car headlights against the asphalt swallowed my light quickly -- couldn't see sticks and potholes well enough.

I've always thought that HID's were overkill for road riding, and they have lots of disadvantages to bright LED's, but this made me concerned. Does the nature of HID light "penetrate" better than LED light?


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*apples...*



Argentius said:


> I use a Cateye Doubleshot light, which, if I'm not mistaken, is 2 LED's of a little over 2 watts each. It provides plenty of light and then some to see in the dark with when it's just me.
> 
> This morning, though, going down a 50mph road with no streetlights and lots of rain, I felt a little concerned. The reflection of all of the car headlights against the asphalt swallowed my light quickly -- couldn't see sticks and potholes well enough.
> 
> I've always thought that HID's were overkill for road riding, and they have lots of disadvantages to bright LED's, but this made me concerned. Does the nature of HID light "penetrate" better than LED light?


You are probably describing the most challenging circumstances for a light. Don't know if you are making a fair comparison, though. A good HID is likely more similar to a Dinotte 600L than the Cateye. I have both a 600L and an L&M HID (whichever is their top of the line), and both are very adequate, but the HID still puts out a bit more total light. The HID may have a slight advantage in visibility, too, as the blue-ish light stands out a bit more. The problems with HID are bulb life and it can't be dimmed (substantially) or blinking. The particular lens or reflector behind the bulb can make a difference in the light pattern, too.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

That makes sense. I am not super well-versed in the physics of illumination, but I am aware of the disadvantages of HID -- bulb life, battery life, on-off, expense -- and in general would prefer to avoid them.

I'm considering either buying an HID, or just getting the Cateye Tripleshot and running the system that they recommend: Tripleshot on bars, Doubleshot on helmet.


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## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

I like to run lights that can burn a hole in the ozone layer. Rain and wet roads tend to diffuse the light being reflected back to the rider from the headlamp so the more output the better.


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*agree*



MB1 said:


> I like to run lights that can burn a hole in the ozone layer. Rain and wet roads tend to diffuse the light being reflected back to the rider from the headlamp so the more output the better.


Agree. That's why I run the 600L AND the HID together from now through April. It's like daylight.


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## TWD (Feb 9, 2004)

Argentius said:


> I use a Cateye Doubleshot light, which, if I'm not mistaken, is 2 LED's of a little over 2 watts each. It provides plenty of light and then some to see in the dark with when it's just me.
> 
> This morning, though, going down a 50mph road with no streetlights and lots of rain, I felt a little concerned. The reflection of all of the car headlights against the asphalt swallowed my light quickly -- couldn't see sticks and potholes well enough.
> 
> I've always thought that HID's were overkill for road riding, and they have lots of disadvantages to bright LED's, but this made me concerned. Does the nature of HID light "penetrate" better than LED light?



Having run both HID and high powered LED, I don't think there is a lot of difference in the relative projection (comparing similar lumen output lights) between the two. Overall light output and beam pattern have a lot mroe to do with it.

The problem is that the double shot isn't near as bright as your average HID. There are plenty of LEDs out there now that give HIDs a run for their money and IMHO blow them away (Dinotte 800L, Lupine Wilma and Betty, L+M Seca 700 Ultra to name a few). 

HIDs will probably be around for a few more years, but their days are numbered. With the $100 bulbs being the major manufacture cost I don't see their price going down much below what they already are at, and it doesn't seem like any manufacturer's are pouring any R+D into HID lights (as well they shouldn't). They were a great stop-gap between the days of halogen and the advent of the LED revolution. LED lights are still improving at an exponential rate. I just don't see HIDs standing the test of time with their fickle and expensive bulbs. 

Seems like most HIDs are around $300 to $400 dollars now. Add in the cost of a $100 replacement bulb sometime during it's useful life, and it's no longer such a deal. 

For the $$, if you find a good deal on a HID, they are plenty adequate, but I'd still choose something like a Dinottte 600L first, and if $$ was no object the new L+M Seca 700 Ultra (~$650) has a fantastic beam pattern that projects like crazy. Or Dinotte has a combo deal of an 800L w/bar mount and 400L w/helmet mount on their site right now for $450.

I'd pick that combo for $450 over any HID.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

Thanks for the input -- I think I will stick with the LED lights and just get more of them. 

I am in kind of a funky position about the price and brand names, so my choices don't include the popular (and apparently excellent) Dinotte, but there are some good options.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

I have been using my NR HID for three and a half years now. I rode through some real monsoons in Hawaii and I always had good visibility. If the rain was especially heavy (like you won't see here), I would aim the light down a little kind of like running low beams in fog. I have used it here (PNW) on our typical rainy days and have no issue seeing or being seen. Is it better than an LED in the rain? I don't know since I haven't done a comparison. It is what I have and I love it. My battery life is a little over three hours with the headlight and universal taillight. My roundtrip is around 2:45 so I unplug the battery during the day and wait until I need the headlight to turn it on in the afternoon. I usually leave work this time of year with the taillight on. 

If you buy an HID and are concerned about battery life, get a second charger for work. Probably wouldn't hurt to have a second one at work for any light system you use.


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## threesportsinone (Mar 27, 2007)

I run a large and heavy 6watt LED ($50 from target, has hi/lo settings) on the bars, a 3watt headlamp, and a superflash.


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## mrbubbles (Jul 1, 2007)

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=464765

HID light at less the price of a Cateye HL530.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

mrbubbles said:


> http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=464765
> 
> HID light at less the price of a Cateye HL530.




did you mean LED?


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## mrbubbles (Jul 1, 2007)

FatTireFred said:


> did you mean LED?


I should've said LED flashlight with HID brightness for less than $45


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## Leopold Porkstacker (Jul 15, 2005)

As it stands presently, the offerings from CREE and LedEngin outperform HID, fluorescent, and regular incandescent in terms of lumen output per watt—going strictly by wattage ratings is like saying that an eleven-speed Campagnolo cassette will make your bike faster than with a 9-speed 2000-spec Shimano 105. What I can suggest perhaps would be to have two light setups, with one of them pointed down toward the road, and the other aimed directly at eye level of the automobiles (a flashing one works great). Making your own lights is really easy if you have a basic grasp of electronics and are comfortable with hand tools and perhaps a soldering iron and a Dremel tool, and in the end you will spend craploads less than those $200 - $500 systems. PM me if you need pointers to resources, as I have made my own very nice setups for under $100 which outperform the $400-$500 setups.


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