# ISP masts. I just don't get it.



## skygodmatt (May 24, 2005)

What's the point of an ISP seat mast? To save a few grams maybe?

I mean- you take a hacksaw to your new frame and hopefully you get it right for your legs. Then if you want to re-sell it, you're **** out of luck. You've just destroyed the resale value. As a matter of fact, there's one for sale on Ebay because it's too short for the owner. Riders inseams vary by much more than a few cm's. Perhaps it looks cleaner? I don't think so with that big metal top cap. Just give me the seat clamp instead. 
Also, god forbid if you damage the seat post then you've destroyed a $3,000 frame.
What about shipping? What kind of case can you buy if you're 6'3" tall and need to transport it on a plane or train? I think the whole ISP thing has more disadvantages than it's really worth. It reminds me of kind of a trendy thing. 
I love my 09 TCR ( non-ISP) but I think on my new 2010 SL I will go for the non-ISP model.


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## Italianrider76 (May 13, 2005)

It just looks cool.


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## Guest (Dec 19, 2009)

There are some pretty neat frames that use them but I just don't see me going that route anytime soon. I think some of the newer ways of making a seatpost that offer some of the advantages of both have some merit and seem like a better way to go.


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## STARNUT (Jun 19, 2005)

Buying a bike based on resale value or the ability to pack on a plane (for most people) should be irrelevant. Bikes are not very good financial instruments and you'd be better off investing your money than buying a bike (or a car). The plane thing applies to such a small percentage of people I wonder why people always bring it up.

The fit argument can be made for bikes that have odd sized seatposts. Limited selection means you have limited fit options. 

Coming form someone who has ridden a ISP I can tell you they ride better. I have extremely long legs and big feet for my height and have always been able to feel my seatpost flex under seated climbing. The ISP mitigated this with no loss of the elusive "ride quality" everyone talks about.

I'm actually considering getting a Z1, 2, or 3 with an ISP and my next bike.

Starnut


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

I'm siding with Starnut. I have yet to experience a moment where I wished my Time Edge Translink had a regular seatpost. Plus, there are still more than a few bicycle frames being made that do use a traditional post. Buy a Colnago. Buy a Waterford. Buy a Look 585.


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## soulfly_nyc (Feb 16, 2007)

i think the big reason is comfort. The ISP is tuned nicely and absorbs a whole lot of road vibration/chatter. In comparison to my other non-ISP bike, the difference is pretty dramatic.

One caution, make sure you know what seat you'll use with an ISP bike. seat heights vary by model. For example, my Specialized Toupe is not nearly as tall as the Selle SLR that came with my first ISP bike, which means you would cut the post in different places for either model.

Also, you can use "spacers" provide by giant. I understand that you can make up about 4cm of height with theses spacers.


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2009)

soulfly_nyc said:


> One caution, make sure you know what seat you'll use with an ISP bike. seat heights vary by model. For example, my Specialized Toupe is not nearly as tall as the Selle SLR that came with my first ISP bike, which means you would cut the post in different places for either model.


See that's the type of thing that keeps me from wanting to buy one though. In and of its self not a deal breaker, but it is one of several things I've never had to deal with using regular posts.


I have no doubt STARNUT is correct, my opinion is that he usually is. But I'm not uncomfortable now and the thought that that part of my frame was too flexy has never crossed my mind. I'll note though that STARNUT says his legs are pretty long, a problem I wasn't blessed with so its not hard to imagine that I don't have much trouble with the few inches of seatpost I use not flexing.


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

Mapei said:


> I'm siding with Starnut. I have yet to experience a moment where I wished my Time Edge Translink had a regular seatpost. Plus, there are still more than a few bicycle frames being made that do use a traditional post. Buy a Colnago. Buy a Waterford. Buy a Look 585.


Ditto with my Time VXRS.

Time also has the added advantage of being able to cut the ISP attach the seatpost clamp and use a standard 27.2 seatpost. So on resale it effectively become a VXR frame if the ISP's limited adjustment does not work for the purchaser.


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## TOflat (Oct 7, 2009)

On my TCR Adv SL 2 for 2010 I've got the ISP cut to the utter limit of the least I needed to cut off and I can use the smaller of the two seat holders on it. With the longer, I can easily add another 4cm to it without batting an eyelash. It's unbelievable the difference something like that makes in terms of how it feels. It's incredibly rigid yet it absorbs more impact than my older non-isp TCR's seatpost did on my original bike. I can understand the whole resale value of the bike if you've cut off a significant portion of seat mast. I had just enough to make a key chain out of while another customer had cut off nearly 4cm because he had shorter legs and longer arms. Think caveman. I find that if you've gone through enough frames you'll end up settling for one eventually. I've been through 4-5 different frames in my time and this is hands down the best feeling bike I've ever had the pleasure of riding on. The MSRP of 7g's CND is a bit of a turnoff to some if they're looking to buy new, but for a quality frame, I have no qualms about getting something thats an ISP. And like above, if you're sketchy on utterly damning yourself to an ISP, you can find frames out there that will allow you to cut off the whole thing and throw on a seatpost clamp and a 27.2 seat post.


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## alias33 (Sep 15, 2008)

the trek madone seat mast is the same concept but offers far more adjustability and has the same feel on the road for compliance


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## rydog9991 (Jul 15, 2008)

I recently just built up a 08' TCR ISP and as far as ride quality goes there is quite a noticable difference in the abosorbtion of bumps. When I first got on it I noticed myself clenching up when I was about to hit a bump in the road only to feel hardly much at all. So as far as stiffness and ride quality I think ISP is definitly superior. 

But I do see where you are coming from as far as resale value. I bought mine used and was lucky that the guy I bought it off of nearly has the exact same inseam as me. Since I did buy it used thought Im not into it 2500 for just the frame and if I ever do sell it I wont take that big of a hit on it.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

I usually agree with STARNUT's advice, but I'm not a believer yet on this. The adjust-ability of my seat post matters, as no matter how dialed in it seems to be, I still find the need to tweak it from time to time. Also, this isn't intended as a personal insult to anyone who makes this argument, but for many people it is absolutely vital to be able to resale a bicycle to be able to "upgrade" with the times and new technologies. I wish it were not so, as I very commonly see advice given on these forums that quickly dismisses the financial reasons for the decisions that many people make. Honestly, for most of us bikes are terribly expensive and incomprehensibly expensive to most of the people around us. People in my family almost pass out when I tell them how much my bikes and gear cost. We gotta be able to sell those used bikes!

Also, I don't really "get" the comments on "ride quality" with an integrated seatmast. I'm not attacking it or saying it is nonexistent, I'm just saying that if such an improvement really does exist, it is not perceivable by myself or the vast majority of people riding bikes. I do think that for most people it is a trend. If you really do notice a difference, then great! I am glad that there is technology that makes your riding experience more pleasurable.

On the other hand, I like the seat post BMC is using; seems like a good answer to this problem. 

-Chris-


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## moeandbrenda (Feb 14, 2008)

Looks cool. I don't ever have to let anyone test ride it.(unless they have my exact inseam) If you're needing more than the readily available 4cm of adjustment, that would indicate that you really don't have your position dialed in yet and are not a candidate for an ISP frame. Some of us have, and are enjoying our ISP,s. BTW, boxers are way more comfy


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## 02tones02 (Jun 16, 2005)

ewitz said:


> Ditto with my Time VXRS.
> 
> Time also has the added advantage of being able to cut the ISP attach the seatpost clamp and use a standard 27.2 seatpost. So on resale it effectively become a VXR frame if the ISP's limited adjustment does not work for the purchaser.



I've been riding a custom Girs bike with an ISP. It's definitely feels stiffer, especially on the seating climbs. I was told by the seller that I could cut the ISP off and insert a 27.2 seatpost like you said, but I still wonder about the seat tube's integrity post-cutting...seeing as how it's not a simple matter of sawing off the ISP, putting on a clamp and insert a seat post, or is it?

Do you not have to also do a vertical cut around the seat clamp area to allow for compression when you tighten the clamp?

Cheers,

A.


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

02tones02 said:


> I've been riding a custom Girs bike with an ISP. It's definitely feels stiffer, especially on the seating climbs. I was told by the seller that I could cut the ISP off and insert a 27.2 seatpost like you said, but I still wonder about the seat tube's integrity post-cutting...seeing as how it's not a simple matter of sawing off the ISP, putting on a clamp and insert a seat post, or is it?
> 
> Do you not have to also do a vertical cut around the seat clamp area to allow for compression when you tighten the clamp?
> 
> ...


The ISP on the VXRS uses a short seatpost and clamp that allow for some adjustment. When the ISP is cut to fit the owner all they do is slide on the clamp and insert the stubby post. No additional cuts are required.


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## Sherpa23 (Nov 5, 2001)

STARNUT said:


> I'm actually considering getting a Z1, 2, or 3 with an ISP and my next bike.
> 
> Starnut


I race on a custom Parlee with an ISP. It's awesome. I wouldn't change it for anything. Also, I am small enough that it fits in a regular bike case for travel to races.


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## Hong Kong Fuey (Dec 2, 2009)

Just bought a new machine with an ISP; Giant TCR Advanced SLR
Way more comfortable.
Looks cool and no probs with resale as the bike comes with a set of spacers if you need the seat to be higher.:thumbsup:


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