# Tubeless CX tires for 2011



## fishman473 (Aug 2, 2004)

My 2-year old Hutchinson Bulldogs are pretty well worn out now. Considering the new regs. call for tires under 32c, what are the new offerings for tubeless CX tires this season?

I'm going to be running mine with Stan's Crest rims, and I want something that will work will, without burping or an extraordinary effort needed to get the bead to lock in. So is anyone offering tires that are specifically tube/no-tube or tubeless-ready?


----------



## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

Are you racing elites? if not, new tire size regs are not applicable.

I haven't seen any word on new players in this market, so if you want tubeless specific tires, you are still pretty limited to the Hutchinson stuff and maybe a handful of others. If you want to go "ghetto", I've heard the Mich Mud2s work pretty well tubeless. But I have no direct experience.


----------



## Schmucker (Apr 19, 2008)

Kenda has "Sealant Compatible Tires" (SCT) coming out. I think I'll get a set of Slant 6's and to try when they're finally available.


----------



## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

krisdrum said:


> Are you racing elites? if not, new tire size regs are not applicable.


What he said.


----------



## fishman473 (Aug 2, 2004)

I need new tires anyway so why not get ones that meet UCI regulations?


----------



## 88 rex (Mar 18, 2008)

fishman473 said:


> I need new tires anyway so why not get ones that meet UCI regulations?



Because you don't race UCI.


----------



## Super E (Jan 15, 2005)

I've been running non-tubeless specific tires on Stans rims for years without issue. I've found that the Michelin Mud-2 work extremely well with Stans rims. The 30c version actually measures 32-33 on the rim and is a good all-around tire. I typically run the Mud-2 at 24-28 psi (150lb rider). I've also had good experience last season with the Maxxis Mud Wrestler on Stan's rims - the Mud wrestler provides better traction in all conditions IMO than the Mud-2, but they wear faster. Kenda tires also work well but not at lower pressures that I prefer to run. Typically I have to run a Kenda at 28-32 psi. At lower psi the Kendas are very wormy in corners. The Kenda Small Block-8 is wicked fast on dry dirt courses and essentially unuseable on wet grass. Hope this helps.
Eric


----------



## floxy (Apr 13, 2009)

The new Specialized Captain cx tubless tire is going to be my choice. Stans Raven is a nice tire as well.


----------



## floxy (Apr 13, 2009)

Specialized Captain CX 2BR Tire - New York's Oldest and Largest Bike Store


----------



## bikeguy0 (Sep 23, 2007)

Another set of blown Hutchinson Bulldogs here. Mavic Aksium w/ tape and stand rim strip. Had to use tire lever to get on, wouldn't seat the beads even at 80 psi with soap and water. Tire wobbled badly since the beads weren't seated all the way around.

Going to get Specialized Captain CX 2bliss 34c's today.


----------



## jroden (Jun 15, 2004)

Super E said:


> I've been running non-tubeless specific tires on Stans rims for years without issue. I've found that the Michelin Mud-2 work extremely well with Stans rims. The 30c version actually measures 32-33 on the rim and is a good all-around tire. I typically run the Mud-2 at 24-28 psi (150lb rider). I've also had good experience last season with the Maxxis Mud Wrestler on Stan's rims - the Mud wrestler provides better traction in all conditions IMO than the Mud-2, but they wear faster. Kenda tires also work well but not at lower pressures that I prefer to run. Typically I have to run a Kenda at 28-32 psi. At lower psi the Kendas are very wormy in corners. The Kenda Small Block-8 is wicked fast on dry dirt courses and essentially unuseable on wet grass. Hope this helps.
> Eric


This is very helpful--are you using the stans sealant or any sort of yellow or black rim strip with these tires? 

Have you ridden much on tubulars to be able to offer a comparison?


----------



## mudge (May 15, 2010)

fishman473 said:


> I need new tires anyway so why not get ones that meet UCI regulations?


'cause dey too narrow??


----------



## CapitalCrewBiker (Aug 24, 2011)

Anyone running the Hutchinson Piranha's


----------



## dozerdog (Jan 13, 2010)

The guys running the michi's mud 2 are you pre stretching them? I can't get them to seat on Alpha 340's brand new so I tubed them to stretch them out and plan to try again.


----------



## carlosflanders (Nov 23, 2008)

I have about 70 races over 4 years on my Mud 2s tubeless with Stans rims. They now measure 35 mm. A complete bear to get on the rims, but that's a good thing. Too difficult with a rim strip. They seal up fantastic, the only problem I've had has been the sealing at the valve. Need to replenish the sealant every 6 weeks or so and shake the hell out of the sealant bottle so that the particles are well mixed in, they do the real sealing.

btw, no visible wear on my tires after 4 years. Almost impossible to wear out a cx tire unless you ride it a lot on the road.


----------



## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

One of my teammates did a bunch of reading about this; coupled with the experience of some marshals measuring tires even in Cat. 4 at one local event, I think UCI regulations are not completely irrelevant.

The trick is that if UCI points or a spot on a national team are being contested at an event, UCI regulations apply. Even for those of us who aren't even in the same race as people going for those points or team spots. It came up at at least one popular race in my area last season. I'd say if one or more of the races you do has the possibility of UCI's new rules applying, it's at least worth some further research.

I'm enjoying my big 35mm tires with a really chunky tread. Haven't measured them, but they certainly look non-regulation. :wink5: One of the races in the series I'm planning to do this season is actually a UCI Cat. 2 event. Whatever that means. I think it won't effect me - I don't hold a license, and they're saying only the elites will need to, but you can bet I'm keeping an eye on the web site so that when they give some more details, I can make sure one way or the other.


----------



## Wyker (Aug 27, 2010)

*Tubless tire help*

http://www.cxmagazine.com/going-tubeless-cyclocross-tires-racing-recommendations

Thee is a link to CX magazines list of tubular cross tires. The Clement PDX are pretty sweet...


----------



## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

AndrwSwitch said:


> One of my teammates did a bunch of reading about this; coupled with the experience of some marshals measuring tires even in Cat. 4 at one local event, I think UCI regulations are not completely irrelevant.
> 
> The trick is that if UCI points or a spot on a national team are being contested at an event, UCI regulations apply. Even for those of us who aren't even in the same race as people going for those points or team spots. It came up at at least one popular race in my area last season. I'd say if one or more of the races you do has the possibility of UCI's new rules applying, it's at least worth some further research.


I could be way off, but that sounds to me like inappropriate application of the rules by the officials. My understanding is Elites and U23s are the only folks impacted by the width restrictions. I would have had a chat with the officials on that one and had them explain to me and show me in the rulebook why they were measuring my tires as a Cat 4.


----------



## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

It sounds inappropriate to me too, and there was some discussion of that. The conclusion was that like police and judges, the refs decisions are right, even when they're wrong. Certainly there's some recourse, but by then the race is long past.


----------



## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

AndrwSwitch said:


> It sounds inappropriate to me too, and there was some discussion of that. The conclusion was that like police and judges, the refs decisions are right, even when they're wrong. Certainly there's some recourse, but by then the race is long past.


Got it. As a trainer (corporate, soft skills), that stuff just chaps my @ss. There are so many ways to approach making sure the rules are communicated and enforced consistently.


----------



## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

krisdrum said:


> I could be way off, but that sounds to me like inappropriate application of the rules by the officials. My understanding is Elites and U23s are the only folks impacted by the width restrictions. I would have had a chat with the officials on that one and had them explain to me and show me in the rulebook why they were measuring my tires as a Cat 4.


They were supposed to hold Masters to the rule at Nationals but relented at the last minute, stupid.


----------



## gpsser (Oct 25, 2003)

I got a set of Clement PDXs set up tubeless with the stans CX kit. Ride is very very nice. Been running them around 25psi on a practice course we have set up.


----------



## fishman473 (Aug 2, 2004)

*Now That's what I'm talking about*










From Bike Rumors: "New Happy Medium and Slant Six Cyclocross tires that are both SCT (sealant compatible tire) so they can run tubeless. Happy Medium weights are 435g for the SCT and 380g for the tube type for the 700×32. Slant Six is 522g (SCT) and 433g (tubes) for 700×32."


----------



## mudge (May 15, 2010)

fishman473 said:


> I need new tires anyway so why not get ones that meet UCI regulations?


I've got a pair of the Specialized Captains mounted up. Not sure if it's the wheels or the tires, but it's taken forever to get them to stop losing pressure overnight. 

I've only done one ride on them so far, on pavement. With that almost continuous centerline knob pattern, they roll great. Time will tell if the side knobs work as well on 'cross tires as they do on mtb tires.


----------



## JSDavis82 (Sep 18, 2011)

i'm 200lbs and am trying to figure out what tires i can run tubeless on alex dc19 rims. The vittoria cross xg pro's that came with my x-bow slide out from under me on off camber cornering. any suggestions?

Those slant six's look sweet.


----------



## buggymancan (Jul 5, 2008)

Anybody try the new Kenda happy Medium 700c x 40? I am wondering how fat they really are (ie actual casing width and tread width). I have 44 mm clearance w/ my Ibis Hakkalugi and ride in dry conditions?


----------



## fallzboater (Feb 16, 2003)

I've run Piranhas on Velocity A23 rims with Stans rubber strips and sealant for a season, with no issues. I need to replace them wiith something better for wet and muddy conditions here in the NW (Cross Crusade). I weigh 185, so I prefer a higher-volume tire. I can get Stans Ravens locally, but they may not be aggressive enough. Should I get those, the Bulldogs, Mud 2s, The Captain tubeless, something else?


----------



## fishman473 (Aug 2, 2004)

I have run the Bulldogs for the the past 2 years, and they have excellent traction in all conditions... as an aggressive MTB rider I was very impressed. However, they certainly don't roll as fast as I would like... so good for a nasty conditions day if you have some faster rubber for days with better conditions. Also note that I have the 2009 version with the kevlar bead, the 2010 Hutchinson tires with the carbon beads have had bad reviews as they don't seem to seat well for running them tubeless.


----------



## SunnyinCO (Oct 26, 2010)

CapitalCrewBiker said:


> Anyone running the Hutchinson Piranha's


I am, second season but only about 6 total races on them plus some practice rides. Ran with tubes last season and tubeless this year(2 races). Tubeless on Shimano ultegra tubeless ready rims. I weight 175 so not running low pressure, high 30's are good enough for me.

Here in colorado all the rides have been on dry grass or pack dirt for the most part, and I love the tires. No idea how them will be in wet conditions.


----------



## rapwithtom (Oct 24, 2005)

*Clement LAS's*

Clement LAS's on Ksyriums. I weigh 200lbs. No luck. Got them to seal after a few days, but they roll over/burp, even up to 45psi. (This is the rear; the front is fine).

Anybody else have any better luck?


----------



## buggymancan (Jul 5, 2008)

Anybody try the new Kenda happy Medium 700c x 40? I am wondering how fat they really are (ie actual casing width and tread width). I have 44 mm clearance w/ my Ibis Hakkalugi and ride in dry conditions?


----------



## steve_e_f (Sep 8, 2003)

My wife and I run Bulldogs and piranhas tubless on Mavic K's and old shimano Rolf ripoff wheels. I gotta say, they seal up super easy on the Shimanos, which are on my wife's bike. 

I mostly train on mine because I've gone tubular for racing, but they've been great. She races on hers and she is feather light, but has never had a problem.


----------



## waterloo (Nov 8, 2005)

So are the new Kenda Happy Medium and Slant Six SCT tires akin to the Hutchinson Bulldog and Pirannah is the sense that they won't require a rim strip and sealent on the Shimano tubeless specific wheels (DA and Ultegra)? Same question for
the no tubes Raven. Are the Hutchinson tires the only ones with the carbon bead specifically designed for the Shimano rims? I can't stand the look of the grey Hutchinsons but will tolerate it if they'll give me the best performance and worry-free setup on my 6700 Ultegra rims.


----------



## fishman473 (Aug 2, 2004)

The Hutchinsons require sealant, and I'm pretty sure the others do too. But once its in there you won't have to fiddle with your tires until next CX season... unless, you know, you want to do something crazy like swap tires.


----------



## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

I've been using Hutchinsons (Bulldog front, Piranha rear) on Dura Ace tubeless wheels for the past 3 seasons with lots of luck. They will seal up without any sealant, but I always add Stan's for extra flat protection. 

I haven't had any luck getting other tires to seal on the Dura Ace wheels, which really sucks since the Hutchinsons aren't UCI legal, and I'll be going to worlds in a couple of months.


----------



## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Andrea138 said:


> I've been using Hutchinsons (Bulldog front, Piranha rear) on Dura Ace tubeless wheels for the past 3 seasons with lots of luck. They will seal up without any sealant, but I always add Stan's for extra flat protection.
> 
> I haven't had any luck getting other tires to seal on the Dura Ace wheels, which really sucks since the Hutchinsons aren't UCI legal, and I'll be going to worlds in a couple of months.


Louisville in January? Wow, if there ever was a time to borrow some proper tubulars that's it. Ice/snow on those Hutchinsons would be diabolical. Some grippy rubbered FMB or Dugasts run at 20ish psi would be ideal.


----------



## waterloo (Nov 8, 2005)

Andrea138 said:


> I haven't had any luck getting other tires to seal on the Dura Ace wheels


What other tires have you tried on your DA wheels?


----------



## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

Ritchey speedmax, Kenda Kommando, Vittoria something or other... 

I'm pretty damned good at getting tough tires to seal, but nothing has been reliable at low PSI like the Hutchinsons.


----------



## Whats_it_to_ya (Aug 3, 2011)

*Noob questions*

I race on grass and loose gravel most of the time and I plan on riding more single track. Im thinking about going tubless. Hutchinson is probably my first choice because my shop gets a discount on them. Would Piranha's or Bulldog's better for those conditions maybe one on the front and the other on the back? Also what pressure are you running I weigh about 170 with my gear on and run about 28 front 30 rear on my mountain bike.


----------



## Gripped (Nov 27, 2002)

Andrea138 said:


> Ritchey speedmax, Kenda Kommando, Vittoria something or other...


You might want to try the Clement PDX. I've heard others using it tubeless and it is a great multi purpose tire.


----------



## mblock78 (Oct 14, 2010)

*NoTubes Alpha 340's and Mud 2's*

Just recently built a set of Stan's Alpha 340's and set up some Mud 2's tubeless. Used just one layer of Stan's yellow sealing tape. Needed and air compressor to seat the beads which wouldn't initially stay put until I added sealant and just did a final seal.

One practice session down and two races and so far no problems. I usually ran around 35 psi with Mud 2's and tubes and I ran 32 psi with the Alpha's tubeless. I'm about 170 lbs too. Bottomed out more than a few times on tree roots and some hard (un-graceful) remounts but no burping issues straight line or cornering. The Mud 2's also run fatter on the Alpha rims...I measured 33.5mm with the tubeless setup and 31.5mm on my clinchers w/ tubes.


----------



## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

buggymancan said:


> Anybody try the new Kenda happy Medium 700c x 40? I am wondering how fat they really are (ie actual casing width and tread width). I have 44 mm clearance w/ my Ibis Hakkalugi and ride in dry conditions?


I've got one. I'll measure it tonight.


----------



## Sheepo (Nov 8, 2011)

Those Mud 2s have been great to me on Stans Crest rims as an all-weather tire.
While they are tough to get on and off the rim(unstretched), that has no correlation with burping. That has more to do with the sidewall height and the spoke bed deepness.

The Pros-
If the tire locks strong into the bead socket, it will be less likely to burp. The Mud 2s lock into that bead socket pretty strong. The measure 35mm also.

They also have a lot of grip. I dont even feel too sketched out riding twisty singletrack on em. 

The cons- Im sure this is an issue with most CX race clinchers, but the sidewall and casing for the mud 2 is very delicate. On my first singletrack ride I ripped the rear sidewall open in two separate spots within 4 miles of trail.

Hope that helps!


----------



## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

kbiker3111 said:


> I've got one. I'll measure it tonight.


700 x 40c measure 38.5 at the casing and 41 at the tread. Its mounted on a 29er mtb rim, so it might come in smaller on a road rim.


----------



## E 12 (Jul 13, 2008)

Andrea138 said:


> I've been using Hutchinsons (Bulldog front, Piranha rear) on Dura Ace tubeless wheels for the past 3 seasons with lots of luck. They will seal up without any sealant, but I always add Stan's for extra flat protection.


Sorry to re-hash an old thread, but are you using Stan's rimstrips (or similar) on your DA's? I'm going to try a set of Piranhas on my C-24s, and am getting mixed reviews on whether or not to use them...


----------

