# Wheels -- HED vs. Zipp



## srosenfeld (Sep 21, 2009)

I will be doing a number of TTs this year (both 40k individual and 60k team) and am looking for a set of faster wheels. I am considering one of the following two pairs: (1) HED H3 (front) with a Stinger disc (rear) or (2) Zipp 1080 (front) with a Sub-9 disc (rear). Does anyone have any experience with either set? They will only be used for TTs..


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## yo mamma (Aug 10, 2009)

A few points: for a front wheel, it doesn't get much better than the H3. Second, for the Sub-9 disc, better make sure your TT frame will accept the wheel. The bulge near the brake track causes problems for lots of frames. Just check first. If it won't fit, just run the typical Zipp disc. The 1080 front wheel will be unrideable in any measurable crosswind, unless you're a clydesdale.

I've run the H3s on the road and the track, and a pair of 808s for the road or a front 808 and 900 disc on the rear for TT/track use, and would go with an H3 front and Zipp disc rear for almost any condition. Even the 808 is too deep for windy use.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Since you mentioned that these wheels would be for TT only, do you have a decent set of road wheels (medium or deeper profile)? I raced with Mavic CCUs last year so I could put them on my road and TT bike, but mostly because I'm a light weight and didn't want be stuck using too deep of rims without an alternative. 

No offense to either brand, but have you ever heard of Reynolds or Edge? I find that Zipp and Mavic are pretty expensive, but not necessarily the best.


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## srosenfeld (Sep 21, 2009)

spade2you said:


> Since you mentioned that these wheels would be for TT only, do you have a decent set of road wheels (medium or deeper profile)? I raced with Mavic CCUs last year so I could put them on my road and TT bike, but mostly because I'm a light weight and didn't want be stuck using too deep of rims without an alternative.
> 
> No offense to either brand, but have you ever heard of Reynolds or Edge? I find that Zipp and Mavic are pretty expensive, but not necessarily the best.


I use Bontrager Aeolus 5.0 carbon wheels on my road bike. I guess I could use the Aeolus front wheel and just get a disc for the rear. I have ridden both Reynolds and Edge wheels and like both brands. However, I don't think that Edge makes a disc, and I haven't heard anything about the Reynolds disc (and it doesn't seem to be less expensive than the HED or Zipp discs).


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

srosenfeld said:


> I use Bontrager Aeolus 5.0 carbon wheels on my road bike. I guess I could use the Aeolus front wheel and just get a disc for the rear. I have ridden both Reynolds and Edge wheels and like both brands. However, I don't think that Edge makes a disc, and I haven't heard anything about the Reynolds disc (and it doesn't seem to be less expensive than the HED or Zipp discs).


Ah gotcha. Those would be suitable for days/courses with too much crosswind factor. I like the Zipp discs, but I'm not the biggest fan of their rims, but it's not a huge issue when using as a TT wheel only. Then again I like Mavic's rim, but their spokes are too damn fragile.....


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

I don't think there is much difference in aerodynamics between the two discs and hardly any difference in weight. Zipps are more expensive than HEDs, but HEDs are rarely on discount. 1080s are more aerodynamic in low winds and H3's are more aerodynamic in crosswinds. They are so close that its really whatever you can get hands on easier. 

I would go with HEDS just because I like Steve HED and MN.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

I'd avoid a 1080 on the front - under less than ideal conditions it is scary due to its sensitivity to crosswinds. The H3 is more versatile. The new Hed disc design is nice but check for compatibility with your frame (some issues due to its width near the rim. Overall, I'd get the Heds.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

I race a Jet 90 on the front and a Jet disc on the rear. They work great and are like a budget version of the Zipp 1080/Sub-9 setup. I think I saved over a $1000 going with HED.


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## yo mamma (Aug 10, 2009)

nightfend said:


> I race a Jet 90 on the front and a Jet disc on the rear. They work great and are like a budget version of the Zipp 1080/Sub-9 setup. I think I saved over a $1000 going with HED.


You may have saved a few seconds, too.


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## cdhbrad (Feb 18, 2003)

H3 Carbon front and Zipp 900 disc is what I run on my dedicated TT bike. I'm in FL where we have a good bit of wind during races and the H3 works fine. I know some who have a 1080 front and they can be tough to handle in crosswinds.


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## srosenfeld (Sep 21, 2009)

Thanks all. After considering your comments and doing some additional research, I ended up ordering a HED H3C FR wheel for the front and a Zipp Sub-9 PT for the rear.


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## yo mamma (Aug 10, 2009)

srosenfeld said:


> Thanks all. After considering your comments and doing some additional research, I ended up ordering a HED H3C FR wheel for the front and a Zipp Sub-9 PT for the rear.


Great choices. Of course, you used up most of your potential excuses.


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## waldo425 (Sep 22, 2008)

yo mamma said:


> Great choices. Of course, you used up most of your potential excuses.


There's always more


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## srosenfeld (Sep 21, 2009)

waldo425 said:


> There's always more


+100. I will never run out of excuses.:thumbsup:


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## repartocorse40 (Feb 23, 2009)

<-------wishes he could afford one of the wheels you got. Couple more months until I get a REAL job - being a grad student is horrible for my bike stuff addiction.


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## merlinluvr (Feb 6, 2010)

srosenfeld said:


> I will be doing a number of TTs this year (both 40k individual and 60k team) and am looking for a set of faster wheels. I am considering one of the following two pairs: (1) HED H3 (front) with a Stinger disc (rear) or (2) Zipp 1080 (front) with a Sub-9 disc (rear). Does anyone have any experience with either set? They will only be used for TTs..


I have run about every wheel combo on the planet and to this day I have yet to ride a front any faster than a Specialized Trispoke. The difference in speed between that and a new $1,000 HED3 is just not worth it in my book if there even is a difference. The moulds Steve Hed bought from Specialized have not been changed to my knowledge. Hubs and braking surface have, but not the aerofoil I believe. If there have been any changes other than a carbon braking surface and hub options I'm not in the know, which could be.

Zipp will never get another dollar of my money as long as I live due to their arrogant customer service. To that end Steve Hed is basically the best customer service experience I have ever had next to Trek. Hed Jet cracked and sent me a new one no questions asked. Then I had a braking/rim crack develop on a very old Hed disc and again no questions asked once he saw it. I sent it in to Steve with a note asking what he thought could be done on a repair and a week later I have a brand new disc on my doorstep, just unreal. Zipp beat me around the bush on a 400 rim pair and when it was all said and done they did nothing after 6 weeks of haggling me to send them $300 to repair it. Front cracked all the way through and the rear had a few hairline cracks at about 5K miles. 

I have come to the point of almost wanting to see my Carbone's break just to know they are at least breakable. I have beat the living snot out of these and they have not even needed a trip to the truing stand in 2+ years. It's just pure gravy at this point and I laugh every time they come back from something. I have lent them out a bunch to friends and probably approaching 20K miles. Go Mavic.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

merlinluvr said:


> I have come to the point of almost wanting to see my Carbone's break just to know they are at least breakable.


I broke a rear CCU last summer. Nice rims, although I do NOT like how the left side spokes attach to the hub. Way too flimsy. Still unsure how it happened, but 3-4 spokes were pulled through and not repairable. Sure, I had the replacement program, but my dilemma occurred during Interbike, which left me without a decent racing wheel in back. Eventually I got it back with no questions asked. 

Mavic's spokes are a touch fragile and Zipp's rims are a bit fragile. There are other companies out there that make stuff that's built for folks like us who don't have an endless supply of fear if it breaks.


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## merlinluvr (Feb 6, 2010)

spade2you said:


> I broke a rear CCU last summer. Nice rims, although I do NOT like how the left side spokes attach to the hub. Way too flimsy. Still unsure how it happened, but 3-4 spokes were pulled through and not repairable. Sure, I had the replacement program, but my dilemma occurred during Interbike, which left me without a decent racing wheel in back. Eventually I got it back with no questions asked.
> 
> Mavic's spokes are a touch fragile and Zipp's rims are a bit fragile. There are other companies out there that make stuff that's built for folks like us who don't have an endless supply of fear if it breaks.


I'm okay with stuff breaking b/c it's man made and all things break, it's how the warranty is handled where I lose faith. Carbon is a risk for sure which I why I choose ti now for my frames after having gone through 2 Madones. I would buy Trek again in a heart beat b/c they handled my issues like a champ. It's the old '10/10' rule. 10 years to get a customer and 10 seconds to lose them. The way Steve Head handled my issues means I will most likely buy one of his new training wheel designs when my Carbone's die. Hey Zipp has a crazy loyal following and my decision to dismiss them won't hurt that shop one bit. Zipp is a permanent pillar in the wheel industry and most likely will always be here. It's always great to have options, options and more options


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

merlinluvr said:


> I'm okay with stuff breaking b/c it's man made and all things break, it's how the warranty is handled where I lose faith. Carbon is a risk for sure which I why I choose ti now for my frames after having gone through 2 Madones. I would buy Trek again in a heart beat b/c they handled my issues like a champ. It's the old '10/10' rule. 10 years to get a customer and 10 seconds to lose them. The way Steve Head handled my issues means I will most likely buy one of his new training wheel designs when my Carbone's die. Hey Zipp has a crazy loyal following and my decision to dismiss them won't hurt that shop one bit. Zipp is a permanent pillar in the wheel industry and most likely will always be here. It's always great to have options, options and more options


There is definitely something to be said about good customer service. In that respect, I'm still willing to use my Mavics. Hopefully my Zipp disc holds up. I'm not a fanboy either way, but I wanted something with a carbon brake surface in case I needed to swap out for my CCUs on a windy day and there aren't a whole lot of companies that do this. Naturally, plenty will since I already have one.  

Not to start a wheel building discussion, but I'm just leaning towards companies like Reynolds and Edge. The stuff just seems like it should hold up a lot better, having a more solid rim than Zipp and spokes you can replace, unlike Mavic. This is coming from being a musician, but there's a lot of $ added on to the final price to the consumer when you factor in the LBS, advertising, and endorsements. Sure, it's neat using the same stuff as the pros, but sometimes you can get roughly the same performance for less elsewhere.


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## mr_pitiful (Aug 21, 2008)

Just FYI for bigger riders. I've been riding my H3's for over a year now with absolutely no issues. I'm putting together another bike and was told by someone in a casual conversation that at 195-200lbs I was too heavy for those wheels. So I emailed Hed and was told in fact that they would recommend Jet's for me due to my weight.... Not sure what I'll go with though.


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## framesti (Jan 26, 2009)

*hed h3*



mr_pitiful said:


> Just FYI for bigger riders. I've been riding my H3's for over a year now with absolutely no issues. I'm putting together another bike and was told by someone in a casual conversation that at 195-200lbs I was too heavy for those wheels. So I emailed Hed and was told in fact that they would recommend Jet's for me due to my weight.... Not sure what I'll go with though.


I agree they are a little flexy


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## Shaggybx (Feb 2, 2008)

srosenfeld said:


> Thanks all. After considering your comments and doing some additional research, I ended up ordering a HED H3C FR wheel for the front and a Zipp Sub-9 PT for the rear.


Not to hijack your thread but did you go with tubular or clincher?
I'm thinking of getting a set of wheels in the future for TT ing.
I have a set of Zipp 404's in clincher,I love them.I've never ridden a set of tubular's.Is it that better of a ride?That much lighter?Worth the hassle of glueing?
Sorry for all the questions.
Thanks


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