# 3 hour wall



## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

I have a small problem. I keep hitting a wall at about the 3 hour mark. The legs turn to led my body just gives up and I totally run out of power. I need some ideas on what to do about it. Whats the best way to overcome something like this?


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## hrumpole (Jun 17, 2008)

This is where I started to notice that performance dropped. Odd's are that it's the gas tank more than the engine. Eat and drink more and you'll probably be just fine.


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## BeeCharmer (Apr 30, 2003)

What are you eating? For long rides, I fill two bottles with energy drink, take a whole wheat sandwich, a couple of bars and a banana. Start eating about an hour into the ride and keep at it until you're done. Your body will become more efficient with training, but you still need to feed it.


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## shockfinder (Apr 21, 2009)

Food. If you have been 3 hours in a fe wtimes, then it's not that you can't go more. It's probably nutrition. I start eating 30 minutes into a 3+ hour ride and keep it up til I'm done. Not huge amounts but about 2-300 calories an hour. A bite every few minutes works for me. 50g carbs/hour give or take.


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

I always wonder if I'm eating enough. Lately I have been having a PB&J before I go ride and taking a bar, 4 gels and 2 large water bottles with drink mix with me. I tried taking whole wheat bred with peanut butter and chocolate ships. But I found I had a real hard time eating it. I do take a banana with me sometimes. I have been trying not to eat the bars as much there getting expensive. So I try and just take one with me on rides so I can make a box last. Last season I tried the Power Bar gel blasts. There kind of like the shot blocks. I found them to be really easy to eat and I liked them. But there not easy to find around here.


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

pulser955 said:


> I always wonder if I'm eating enough. Lately I have been having a PB&J before I go ride and taking a bar, 4 gels and 2 large water bottles with drink mix with me. I tried taking whole wheat bred with peanut butter and chocolate ships. But I found I had a real hard time eating it. I do take a banana with me sometimes. I have been trying not to eat the bars as much there getting expensive. So I try and just take one with me on rides so I can make a box last. Last season I tried the Power Bar gel blasts. There kind of like the shot blocks. I found them to be really easy to eat and I liked them. But there not easy to find around here.


You sure that is enough?

Maybe you should pack a picnic lunch.

If you are eating/drinking all that in three hours then it is training not nutrition.


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

ewitz said:


> You sure that is enough?
> 
> Maybe you should pack a picnic lunch.
> 
> If you are eating/drinking all that in three hours then it is training not nutrition.


What a bar and 4 gels is allot? I should tell you that allot of my rides are 20+ miles of climbing.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

pulser955 said:


> What a bar and 4 gels is allot? I should tell you that allot of my rides are 20+ miles of climbing.


It varies from person to person. I need to load up with food before the ride, and then continue to eat a lot on long rides. What level of intensity are you riding at? Perhaps you need to reduce the pace down to an endurance level until you know you can get past your 3 hour wall.

I find that even if I've dug myself into a big hole, by concentrating on proper hydration, nutrition and pacing I can ride through it and recover my strength for the rest of the ride. I had this situation for about an hour on a 120 mile, very hilly effort recently and I just sat in behind a friend for that duration. I also had the same thing going up Ebbetts Pass a couple of years back, and hooked up with someone else to ride with and talk to and that helped me through it. Both times I was able to come back and do substantially more climbing and finish the whole route in style.


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

ukbloke said:


> It varies from person to person. I need to load up with food before the ride, and then continue to eat a lot on long rides. What level of intensity are you riding at? Perhaps you need to reduce the pace down to an endurance level until you know you can get past your 3 hour wall.
> 
> I find that even if I've dug myself into a big hole, by concentrating on proper hydration, nutrition and pacing I can ride through it and recover my strength for the rest of the ride. I had this situation for about an hour on a 120 mile, very hilly effort recently and I just sat in behind a friend for that duration. I also had the same thing going up Ebbetts Pass a couple of years back, and hooked up with someone else to ride with and talk to and that helped me through it. Both times I was able to come back and do substantially more climbing and finish the whole route in style.



One of the big problems I run in to is a get hungry after 2 or 2 1/2 hours and gels don't hellp. If I'm planing to be out for longer then 3+ hours I try and slow down. But I am definitely guilty of wanting to go hard all the time. So using self control and keeping the pace around 17 or 18 and not in the 20s is tough.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

pulser955 said:


> One of the big problems I run in to is a get hungry after 2 or 2 1/2 hours and gels don't hellp. If I'm planing to be out for longer then 3+ hours I try and slow down. But I am definitely guilty of wanting to go hard all the time. So using self control and keeping the pace around 17 or 18 and not in the 20s is tough.


You need to eat before you hungry. For long rides, I also have to eat "real" food not just the energy supplements. Often this takes the form of a PB&J sandwich for me. For endurance efforts you need to concentrate on giving your best performance for the whole ride, not just optimize for the current section of road or climb. On that recent 120 mile ride with a couple of friends I deliberately chose to go to the front and then soft-pedal to slow everyone else down (!) because I knew that none of us, and especially me, could sustain that pace for the long haul.

I generally pace myself by HR or ideally power because instantaneous speed is a poor measure of effort. In fact, largely I ignore speed for the most part. When riding with a powermeter you can see huge variations in effort, and it teaches you to immediately distinguish that 500+ Watt surge up the roller from that 100-200W soft pedalling over the top. It is those big efforts that catch up with you later in the day on an endurance ride. You are better off maintaining a constant effort and it turns out that you don't actually lose any significant time doing so because you make it up elsewhere. Racing is obviously quite different to this, but I presume you are talking about riding here, not racing.


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

ukbloke said:


> You need to eat before you hungry. For long rides, I also have to eat "real" food not just the energy supplements. Often this takes the form of a PB&J sandwich for me. For endurance efforts you need to concentrate on giving your best performance for the whole ride, not just optimize for the current section of road or climb. On that recent 120 mile ride with a couple of friends I deliberately chose to go to the front and then soft-pedal to slow everyone else down (!) because I knew that none of us, and especially me, could sustain that pace for the long haul.
> 
> I generally pace myself by HR or ideally power because instantaneous speed is a poor measure of effort. In fact, largely I ignore speed for the most part. When riding with a powermeter you can see huge variations in effort, and it teaches you to immediately distinguish that 500+ Watt surge up the roller from that 100-200W soft pedalling over the top. It is those big efforts that catch up with you later in the day on an endurance ride. You are better off maintaining a constant effort and it turns out that you don't actually lose any significant time doing so because you make it up elsewhere. Racing is obviously quite different to this, but I presume you are talking about riding here, not racing.



Yea riding not racing. But I will be doing some races this year. I haven't raced in a number of years so its going to be fun.

I don't have a powermeter or a HR monitor. The monitor I had stopped working and I just haven't had the money for a new one. But I used it long enough to get a good Idea of what my body is doing based on how I feel. 

I would like to ride up to Estes Co. this year from my house. Normally you park at the bottom of the canyon and rid up and back. Its 65 miles about 2 and 1/2 hours round trip. with 35 of it climbing. From my house its going to be something like 85 or 90 miles. Its the last 3 climbs to get back in to town that have kept me from doing this. There really steep and would be vary tough after that kind of miles.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

pulser955 said:


> Its 65 miles about 2 and 1/2 hours round trip. with 35 of it climbing.


Dude, with those numbers you should be thinking of turning pro!


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

ukbloke said:


> Dude, with those numbers you should be thinking of turning pro!



LOL no its the 50 to 65 miles an hour you can do on the way back down that make up the quick times. Last year I was drafting cars for over 10 miles down the canyon.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

pulser955 said:


> LOL no its the 50 to 65 miles an hour you can do on the way back down that make up the quick times. Last year I was drafting cars for over 10 miles down the canyon.


Understood, but an average of 26mph over a 65 mile round-trip hilly parcours is a pro-level performance. This is taking into account the drafting on the downhill. No matter how fast you go downhill it is insanely difficult to bring up your average sufficiently to compensate for the slow speed going up. 10 miles at 50mph is only 12 minutes of your total ride time.


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

ukbloke said:


> Understood, but an average of 26mph over a 65 mile round-trip hilly parcours is a pro-level performance. This is taking into account the drafting on the downhill. No matter how fast you go downhill it is insanely difficult to bring up your average sufficiently to compensate for the slow speed going up. 10 miles at 50mph is only 12 minutes of your total ride time.



This might hellp. I'm guessing a bit on the time. Because the 2 times I did this ride I couldn't get an overall time. The people I was with wanted to stop and get food at the store. And then agen when we got to Estes. So I only have the time my wheels were turning from my computer. That was 2 and 1/2 hours. Yesterday I did a different canyon not as steep. 2-43-47 50.2 miles with a top speed of 36.8. The extra 20 to 30mph in the other canyon cuts the time to get back down almost in half.


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

34 going up to Estes is steep for about 10 or 12 miles and it flattens out a bit and then get steep agen for 10 or 12 miles. I can run at 55mph with no problems on the steep parts and 35 to 40 on the flatter part. It makes up allot of time lost on the climb.


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## PhysioJoe (May 6, 2008)

Just a thought, but you might just want to have a solid snack a couple hours before riding, and then skip the PB&J right before. Some people can do this, but it might not be the best strategy for you. 

Another thought, if you have 2 bottles of drink mix, and you are riding 3+ hours, are you drinking anything else? Depending on the temp, you may need to drink a little more.

-Physiojoe


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

This time of year I won't stop for more water. But when its hot out I do. Sometimes I will use a camelbak too when its really hot out.


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

pulser955 said:


> What a bar and 4 gels is allot? I should tell you that allot of my rides are 20+ miles of climbing.


Well, it's about 700 calories, right? If so, conventional wisdom says that's about all you're really going to be able to use in 3 hours anyway.


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

Undecided said:


> Well, it's about 700 calories, right? If so, conventional wisdom says that's about all you're really going to be able to use in 3 hours anyway.



Yea I guess. I honestly never really thought about it like that.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

pulser955 said:


> What a bar and 4 gels is allot? I should tell you that allot of my rides are 20+ miles of climbing.



That's quite a lot. 

I do 3 hour rides with 2 to 3 bottles of plain water and no food. When I get into 4 to 5 hour territory with plenty of climbing (3,000' to 6,000') I'll drink 4+ bottles of water (depending on heat/sun exposure) and I'll eat a banana and a bar or a gel or a couple of Fig Newtons.


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

rocco said:


> That's quite a lot.
> 
> I do 3 hour rides with 2 to 3 bottles of plain water and no food. When I get into 4 to 5 hour territory with plenty of climbing (3,000' to 6,000') I'll drink 4+ bottles of water (depending on heat/sun exposure) and I'll eat a banana and a bar or a gel or a couple of Fig Newtons.



I wish I could do that. I can go a hour to an hour and a half and I start to get hungry. I usually have a gel in the first hour. Then Try to have some of the bar not long after that. If I can't get all of the bar down becasue the group I'm with is going too hard or cross winds. Then I just have a few bights over the second hour. I some times will use 2 gels on the way home. There is allot of climbing here. And I usually have several steep short ( 1 mile or so) climbs to get back in to town when I ride west of here.


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## easyridernyc (Jan 10, 2008)

pulse how much do you weigh and what do you eat before the three hour ride?


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## MaddSkillz (Mar 13, 2007)

And what's your body fat%. If you're body fat is really low you will need to consume more calories and sooner (before you ever feel it). Your room for error is slim (pun intended) haha!!!!


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

Want cheap energy on the go? I do what many here do: the walmart fig newtons. There's 4 packs in a package. Just put one of those packs in a baggie and eat as you ride.


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

easyridernyc said:


> pulse how much do you weigh and what do you eat before the three hour ride?



I'm 5'8" about 175lb I will be about 170 by mid season. Lately I usually do PB&J before a ride.

I did 63 miles in 3 and 1/2 hours Sunday. My first ride over 3 hours this season. I fished strong by my legs were hurting for about the last few miles. They felt like they were going to cramp up. If the weather is good tomorrow I'm going to do what I think is a 65 mile ride with lots of climbing.


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## easyridernyc (Jan 10, 2008)

little big man. good fitness level that time and distance

sounds like you're not eating (/drinking) enough


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## pulser955 (Apr 18, 2009)

easyridernyc said:


> little big man. good fitness level that time and distance
> 
> sounds like you're not eating (/drinking) enough



Yea I guess you could say that. I work construction so I have to keep some upper body mass. I might not be I'm going to start trying some different things in that department.


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