# Tantalus (Hawaii), anyone?



## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

I am a veteran mountain biker and rode up Tantalus a lot in my big chainring, so I'm in decent shape. I just bought a pretty light road bike (16-17 lbs) and was wondering if this is feasible with a double crank.

Right now my TCR Comp 1 is stock with double 53/39 crank and 12-25 rear cog. Is it nescessary to switch to a 12-27 cog or go to a triple, which will be pretty $$$. I mean the bike already has 10-spd Ultegra Flight Deck and a DuraAce rear derailleur (short cage). Plus an FSA MegaExo double carbon crank. Ouch!

Anybody know the % grade of Tantalus? It varies depending on the stretch.


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## Zampano (Aug 7, 2005)

It should be no problem with you present setup. Ever thought of just giving it a try?


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

Zampano said:


> It should be no problem with you present setup. Ever thought of just giving it a try?


I'm back in Japan now, but when I was over there, I took a car up to scope it out and the ride looks longer than I thought. Didn't seem that long on a mountain bike. Some of the grades on the switchbacks weren't that bad.

I did Nuuanu Pali Drive (6% grade though don't look like much) with some gears to spare in my small ring, so I think I can do Tantalus next time I'm in HI. The only problem with Tantalus is getting your car stolen while parked in the deserted areas at the bottom. That's the main reason I nixed the ride this time around.


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## MrBikeFixer (Jun 29, 2005)

Clevor said:


> The only problem with Tantalus is getting your car stolen while parked in the deserted areas at the bottom. That's the main reason I nixed the ride this time around.


Park your car at Makiki Park - it's less than 1/2 mile to Tantalus. Makiki Park is the park with the tennis courts, public pool and skatepark. 

Tantalus is no problem if you use a 39-25 in the places where it gets steep. One of the things you may notice, though, is that the roads have gotten pretty beat up and very little maintenance is being done. It makes the downhills particularly rough.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

MrBikeFixer said:


> Park your car at Makiki Park - it's less than 1/2 mile to Tantalus. Makiki Park is the park with the tennis courts, public pool and skatepark.
> 
> Tantalus is no problem if you use a 39-25 in the places where it gets steep. One of the things you may notice, though, is that the roads have gotten pretty beat up and very little maintenance is being done. It makes the downhills particularly rough.


Yeah, Makiki Park is a good idea. I was looking at the neighborhood parking but the signs get complicated (parking only allowed at certain time/no parking to the corner, etc.).

Poor conditions of roads in HI? Tell me about it. My first road ride was up above my house in Dowsett and Nuuanu Pali Drive, and I told myself: never again! Too many potholes, ruts; the asphalt is so rough in places I felt every grain through my bike. You can't bomb down Pali Drive as there are ruts and sometimes a branch on the road.

I then rode from Kahala Mall to Sandy Beach and back, and the roads are hardly better. I came back to Japan and can't believe how much better condition the pavement is.

Fortunately, my bike has Mavic Krysium Elites and the rims aren't bent any (I got up to 175 lbs in HI, what with all the plate lunches).


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## Zampano (Aug 7, 2005)

I prefer taking the left fork, with the 40mph+ sweeper after the lookout. That way you climb through most of the rutted switchbacks. Those roads have never been smooth--ever.


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## ArmySlowRdr (Aug 7, 2004)

*hmm*

ha ha ive only been down to 175 like a few months in the last 20 years.
tantalus loop is basically 10 miles--yeah some is steep--but the down is worth it--i usu do it in a clockwise direction --but have been known to park in the 1 park like halfway on the ride and then do the loop ix ea direction. no prob on my allez triple. I have steadily improved from 52 min to under 45 min also.

and i think road riding here is great compared to my beloved for xc mtb state of TX--where the ******** will find the biker dude on the almost deserted farm road and annoy the heck of of em.

i usu ride sats with hbl from waikiki to makapuu --sometimes enchanted lake in kuilia--and back. yeah some of the surface is rough--but the thrill of riding the huanama/makaouu area is awesome. other good rides--kbay to turtlr bay and back--mililani to haliewa and back. kole-kole pass on schofield--and numerous others. No Tantalus aint got nuttin on Kuileia Ave hill heading back toward dhed--or the coconut grove access rd that leads up to peacock flats.

century tomorrow--hoohah!



Clevor said:


> Yeah, Makiki Park is a good idea. I was looking at the neighborhood parking but the signs get complicated (parking only allowed at certain time/no parking to the corner, etc.).
> 
> Poor conditions of roads in HI? Tell me about it. My first road ride was up above my house in Dowsett and Nuuanu Pali Drive, and I told myself: never again! Too many potholes, ruts; the asphalt is so rough in places I felt every grain through my bike. You can't bomb down Pali Drive as there are ruts and sometimes a branch on the road.
> 
> ...


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## Zampano (Aug 7, 2005)

ArmySlowRdr said:


> No Tantalus aint got nuttin on Kuileia Ave hill heading back toward dhed--or the coconut grove access rd that leads up to peacock flats.
> 
> century tomorrow--hoohah!


Where is "Kuileia Ave hill heading back toward dhed"? Are you refering to snake road--the one where you take a right at the light at the bottom after exiting the Pali tunnel? Love that short technical descent/w lots of off-cambers. BTW, I try to always ride my descents 2 times minimum. The 1st to check for debris and water, the 2nd for speed. This is Hawaii after all.

Ever done Peacock in a 39/26? That last steep leg with the big speed bumbs defines the meaning of pain.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

Kole Kole Pass would be nice, but you need DOD ID to get in there.

The road around the North Shore is pretty narrow; maybe I'd do it on a century with other bikers. Yeah, one thing about the roads in HI: you sure get a lot of company from passing cars.

The steepest paved stuff I ever road on my mountain bike was up the Old Pali Road (the original road over the Pali that is the start of Maunawili Trail). It's especially tough after doubling back from the ride on the trail, and you're all tuckered out (I start from the Pali Lookout). St. Louis Heights is also tough, mainly one looong hairpin there, and of course, straight up Maunawili Rise.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

Clevor said:


> Kole Kole Pass would be nice, but you need DOD ID to get in there.
> 
> The road around the North Shore is pretty narrow; maybe I'd do it on a century with other bikers. Yeah, one thing about the roads in HI: you sure get a lot of company from passing cars..



The Army hasn't been letting bikes ride over the KoleKole. You can ride to the top but have to turn around. Riding out to Waianae doesn't really appeal to me since I would have to ride Farrington Hwy back around. 

Riding the North Shore looks rough, but for the most part the cars give you room. Tough tires are a must since the edge has a lot of trash. Hawaii only recently started recycling but alot of locals still prefer to recycle their bottles onto the pavement. The worst part is that fact that about half of the cars passing you are driven by tourists who didn't come to Hawaii to watch for cyclists. As pretty as it is, the road over Koko Head to Sandy Beach via Haunama Bay has to be the scariest place I have ever ridden a bike.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

bigbill said:


> The Army hasn't been letting bikes ride over the KoleKole. You can ride to the top but have to turn around. Riding out to Waianae doesn't really appeal to me since I would have to ride Farrington Hwy back around.
> 
> Riding the North Shore looks rough, but for the most part the cars give you room. Tough tires are a must since the edge has a lot of trash. Hawaii only recently started recycling but alot of locals still prefer to recycle their bottles onto the pavement. The worst part is that fact that about half of the cars passing you are driven by tourists who didn't come to Hawaii to watch for cyclists. As pretty as it is, the road over Koko Head to Sandy Beach via Haunama Bay has to be the scariest place I have ever ridden a bike.


Riding to the top of Kole Kole should be fun enough. Only been on that road once in a car, and I believe there are a lot of switchbacks so shouldn't be too bad.

I did the Kahala Mall to Sandy Beach ride and back when I was in HI, and yup, that bit from Hanauma Bay to Sandy Beach is harrowing, though I found you do get at least 2' to ride in places. There is that one steep downhill, but you gotta brake and hit a sharp turn at the bottom. What I did was wait for the traffic light back at HI Kai to try to stop the flow of cars before I headed down. I did that with the Pali Highway too, coming through the tunnels, but that was with my mountain bike.

Correction on my last post: I mean't Wilhemina Rise is tough, not Maunawili .


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## Zampano (Aug 7, 2005)

St. Louis Hts. *is* a very hard ride, but there are many different side routes to the top. The road to Peacock Flats out by Dillingham Airfield is the steepest that I have ridden. The steepest leg has several gnarlly speedbumps that mess with your rythmn bigtime, and it is so steep that you have to take care to not spin your back tire when standing on the pedals.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

Zampano said:


> St. Louis Hts. *is* a very hard ride, but there are many different side routes to the top. The road to Peacock Flats out by Dillingham Airfield is the steepest that I have ridden. The steepest leg has several gnarlly speedbumps that mess with your rythmn bigtime, and it is so steep that you have to take care to not spin your back tire when standing on the pedals.


I'd ride up St. Louis Heights on my mountain bike, than take the pro downhill track back down. Some sections were too gnarly and long for my cross-country bike, tho'.

That ride up Peacock Flats is pretty easy on a mountain bike, in big chainring even. The only place I've had to drop down to my mid chainring is going up the Old Pali Road to the Lookout, and I think that long hairpin on St. Louis Drive. Tantalus was no problem in my big ring. While mountain bikes have a triple and lower cassettes, figure the 2.1" knobbies and weight of the bike. Lotta rolling resistance. I found it's pretty easy to pedal standing up on a road bike, and you can go on forever (tho' my TCR Comp 1 is a 16 lb. bike).

I do have to quit pounding tall gears though, as they say it will ruin the knees.


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## ArmySlowRdr (Aug 7, 2004)

*yeah*

the gate up top finally reopened several months back. I road all the way down the other side where Navy SP promptly escorted me back to the Army side--not complaining--their side of the pass is way more "rad". Thing that POs me tho is there is no sign specifically prohibiting bikes. The sign says POVs only. A bike isnt a vehicle I guess--bullcra#.
But yeah I do between 2 and 4 10 mile loops on the army side depending how I feel. Park at the MP Bararcks--go all the way to the top--blaze down at 45+--take a left at the Y--turn rt near the px area and then left swinging by Division HQ--then past CIF and a left through 2d BDE area and finally a rt back to the start. Fun little loop.



bigbill said:


> The Army hasn't been letting bikes ride over the KoleKole. You can ride to the top but have to turn around. Riding out to Waianae doesn't really appeal to me since I would have to ride Farrington Hwy back around.
> 
> Riding the North Shore looks rough, but for the most part the cars give you room. Tough tires are a must since the edge has a lot of trash. Hawaii only recently started recycling but alot of locals still prefer to recycle their bottles onto the pavement. The worst part is that fact that about half of the cars passing you are driven by tourists who didn't come to Hawaii to watch for cyclists. As pretty as it is, the road over Koko Head to Sandy Beach via Haunama Bay has to be the scariest place I have ever ridden a bike.


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## ArmySlowRdr (Aug 7, 2004)

*hmm*

dont know the right name and spelling now--a very short and steep hill. It;s the street with Kahala Mall--keep going and there's an elementary school or something on the left--by then the hill looks reasonable--the tri guys and gals fly up it--I started by having to rest my legsfor sev seconds on the side streets--now i am able to ever so slowly grind up it.



Zampano said:


> Where is "Kuileia Ave hill heading back toward dhed"? Are you refering to snake road--the one where you take a right at the light at the bottom after exiting the Pali tunnel? Love that short technical descent/w lots of off-cambers. BTW, I try to always ride my descents 2 times minimum. The 1st to check for debris and water, the 2nd for speed. This is Hawaii after all.
> 
> Ever done Peacock in a 39/26? That last steep leg with the big speed bumbs defines the meaning of pain.


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## Zampano (Aug 7, 2005)

Clevor said:


> The only place I've had to drop down to my mid chainring is going up the Old Pali Road to the Lookout, and I think that long hairpin on St. Louis Drive. Tantalus was no problem in my big ring.


You are a very strong climber. I've never ridden *up* Old Pali Rd., only down, and on a MTB headed for the trail to Waimanalo. The one with the chainlink cage mid-way to the forest right? Its blocked off to the lookout by a chainlink fence, and you usually have to carry around the side? 

Tantalus is the fav. It is not only a beautiful climb (clockwise) in terms of scenery, but the pace and rythmn changes make for a very interesting and enjoyable ride. If you attack it like a time trial, you can detail down to the most efficient lines through its many turns and switchbacks. Its a great technical climb.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

Zampano said:


> You are a very strong climber. I've never ridden *up* Old Pali Rd., only down, and on a MTB headed for the trail to Waimanalo. The one with the chainlink cage mid-way to the forest right? Its blocked off to the lookout by a chainlink fence, and you usually have to carry around the side?
> 
> Tantalus is the fav. It is not only a beautiful climb (clockwise) in terms of scenery, but the pace and rythmn changes make for a very interesting and enjoyable ride. If you attack it like a time trial, you can detail down to the most efficient lines through its many turns and switchbacks. Its a great technical climb.


Since I park at the Pali Lookout before doing the Maunawili Trail, I have to climb back up to my car . I will say when I make it to the top, my legs are numb. I lived in Nuuanu, just down the valley, so it was a close ride to me.

I also used to ride the Nuuanu Judd trail, but gotta walk the bike up many steep sections. You pretty much slide down them on the way down (hope no Sierra Group people listening in). I did the ride couple of times then DLNR put up a no biking sign. A hurricane knocked it down, and DLNR never bothered re-erecting it as they figured only one dumb guy is doing that trail on a bike.

I'd occasionally encounter hikers on the trail and they can't believe I do it on a bike. A couple of them were resting at the top before I started down one time, and they were gasping (but the top looks steep starting off).

On Tantalus, if you take the clockwise route, isn't there a BIG steep hill to start it, around a hairpin? If I do the ride I better chow down on pancakes and syrup for breakfast, and pizza out the night before. On my mountain bike I used to do the counterclockwise route, but yeah, the wide sweep at the beginning under the lookout is best done on a road bike.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

Anybody know if the Makapuu Lookout road is now closed to bikes? This is the peak that is around the corner from Sandy Beach, before you get to SeaLife Park. I used to bike up that one, where you get a spectacular view of the deep blue ocean at the top (great for partaking of an obento for lunch). But I saw a lot of tourists on the paved road and I think by now, there's a no-bikes rule. I used to bike around Queen's Beach than finish up with that ride.


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## Zampano (Aug 7, 2005)

Clevor said:


> Since I park at the Pali Lookout before doing the Maunawili Trail, I have to climb back up to my car . I will say when I make it to the top, my legs are numb. I lived in Nuuanu, just down the valley, so it was a close ride to me.
> 
> I also used to ride the Nuuanu Judd trail, but gotta walk the bike up many steep sections. You pretty much slide down them on the way down (hope no Sierra Group people listening in). I did the ride couple of times then DLNR put up a no biking sign. A hurricane knocked it down, and DLNR never bothered re-erecting it as they figured only one dumb guy is doing that trail on a bike.
> 
> ...


Clevor,
Clockwise is the way I've always gone. The steep hairpin is after the high school right? I start at the other side at the triangle park.

For Maunawili, I've always started and finished in town--no driving to, except for Peacock flats and Cambodia trail. I never drive to if at all possible.

Just remembered a *killer* incline. Kamehame Ridge, the one that takes you right to where the hanggliders launch.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

Zampano said:


> Clevor,
> Clockwise is the way I've always gone. The steep hairpin is after the high school right? I start at the other side at the triangle park.
> 
> For Maunawili, I've always started and finished in town--no driving to, except for Peacock flats and Cambodia trail. I never drive to if at all possible.
> ...


The steep rise after a hairpin is on a road that eventually meets the one going up from Papakolea. I gotta scope Tantalus out; I don't want to start on that one.

When I was mountain biking, you don't want to park your car at the trailheads anyway. The broken window glass is the giveaway. I forget that twin loop trail on the North Shore, but I used to park at the McDonald's on Kalanianaole Hwy (or whatever it is on the North Shore), and bike the mile to the trailhead.

When I did the Maunawili Trail once, a tourist told me somebody broke into their car there at 11 am on a Sat. morning! 

When I used to hike, the first hike we did was waaay up Waianae Valley Road. Not a good choice. When we got back, somebody broke into our cars and stole my friend's Honda Accord. The pig hunter's cars were of course untouched. I used to put an NRA sticker on the bumper of my 5-liter Mustang, to help people think it was a pig hunter's car .


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## Zampano (Aug 7, 2005)

Clevor said:


> The steep rise after a hairpin is on a road that eventually meets the one going up from Papakolea. I gotta scope Tantalus out; I don't want to start on that one.


Doh, I have gone up that way a few times. 

The other clockwise starting point is a few blocks Diamond Hd. off Nehoa st. Nehoa runs from Punahou school to Roosevelt school. At the end of the clockwise descent, right after that last small corkscrew turn, there is a small park right? At the end of that park is a fork in the road. Take that left fork (Ewa side), and it will take you to the road from Papakolea.


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