# Mavic Ksyrium SL or Ksyrium Equipe S



## laurido92 (Apr 7, 2015)

I found two sets of wheels on Craigslist for what think is a very good price. I bought both and now I'm trying to decide which ones to keep. The Ksyrium SL ($300) have more blemishes (stickers fading, scratched spokes) but are true and have no lose or cracked hubs and spin well. They came with Conti Ultrasport 25mm tires and still have a lot of life left in them. They are noticeable lighter than the Equipe with or without cassette/skewers.

The Equipe S ($250) are in like new condition and have no blemishes and work as intended but are heavier than the SLs. 

I guess my question is which set should I keep? I know the SLs are bulletproof from what I've read and are lighter than the Equipe. I will sell which ever set I don't keep as well as the set of Oval 327 that came with my bike.

Below are some pictures for reference

Ksyrium SL
Front


Rear


Equipe S
Front
2016-01-24 16.44.09.jpg Photo by laurido92 | Photobucket

Rear


Thanks


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

Not many Mavic fans here as they have many proprietary parts, lack aero qualities and are not particularly light.

Look at completed auctions on E-Bay and sell the two wheelsets that can get you the most money. You will want to wait 2 months or so to sell as half the country is thinking about snow about now.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

Sell them both and find a decent pair of wheels.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

I love Mavic durability and reliability. Keep the SLs -- those will survive a nuclear attack -- and they're good for everyday training. The ones in your photo look like 2002/2003 MY wheels. I know plenty of guys in our group that still use those, but they're still true and they're solid. FWIW, back around 2002 to 2005, the SLs were the top road wheel used by many Pro Tour teams in the Tour de France, Giro d'Italia, etc. Of course technology has improved since that time with all sorts of fancy hoops (especially in the form of carbon rims), but the point is that the SLs are race-proven.

Personally, I would not have purchased the Equipes. Those are more for weekend warrior types that don't do regular riding. If you are looking to race or do a hammer ride, consider getting a pair of deeper dish aero wheels. But for everyday riding, you're fine on the SLs. Unless you are racing, the weight and less-aero qualities of the SLs are quite irrelevant.

Bon chance.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

cxwrench said:


> Sell them both and find a decent pair of wheels.


^^^This^^^^^^This^^^^^^This^^^.

Then order theses -

November Bicycles: Race smart. - Alloy Nimbus Ti Wheelsets

- and thank me after the first ride.


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

Mike T. said:


> ^^^This^^^^^^This^^^^^^This^^^.
> 
> Then order theses -
> 
> ...


You hand built junkies often go over the top.

So you are suggesting a hand built wheel for $550 which is as much aero and most likely less stiff than the Mavic SL for $300?*

Just for the sake of hating everything factory built.

* Admittedly no one has seen the interior of the hub and bearings of the Mavic SL. The OP should also have a good look of the rim wear and if there are any signs of it.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

dracula said:


> You hand built junkies often go over the top.
> 
> So you are suggesting a hand built wheel for $550 which is as much aero and most likely less stiff than the Mavic SL for $300?*
> 
> ...


Your lack of experience is showing. Neither Mike nor I need to see the 'interior of the hub and bearings' to know that virtually anything like what Mike recommended will be better and easier to deal with long term than a Mavic wheel. This is most definitely not my nor his first rodeo. Neither of us would buy a new Mavic much less a used one. The reasons have been listed numerous times in other threads so I won't repeat them here.


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## laurido92 (Apr 7, 2015)

Thank you all for your input. I am taking them in tomorrow to my favorite bike shop so they can do a thorough inspection and tell me the real status of the SL.


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## FeltF75rider (Feb 10, 2012)

Those November wheels are an excellent choice. I received mine about a week ago, unfortunately no rides yet. I went with a 20/24 build on a pair of Pacenti SL23 V2's. I have owned Mavic in the past and never any issues but with so many better options I got rid of them. The only quality that got my attention was the weight, nothing more.
Another great wheel is the new Boyd Roueller (spelling ?) Having rode both hand built and machine I will go with the hand built all day long. Skip the proprietary stuff as well


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Another vote for the Novembers. I got a set with the Pacenti SL23 V2 rims in 28/32 so I could have strong commuter wheels. So far so good. Even with the recently increased prices (+$40) they are still a steal for what you get.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

dracula said:


> You hand built junkies often go over the top.
> 
> So you are suggesting a hand built wheel for $550 which is as much aero and most likely less stiff than the Mavic SL for $300?*
> 
> ...


It's not hand built vs factory built. It's common sense vs stupid, quality vs lack of quality.
I'm sure the answers would be the same if, for argument sake, the Novembers were put together by machines in a big factory and the Mavics were put together by human hands alone. The product is just better and easier/cheaper to deal with down the road regardless of how it was put together.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

There's a good reason those wheels were on craigslist for cheap. If I were you I'd put them right back on craigslist for the same price and listen to the boys above.

Ever seen a Mercedes or nice VW or something selling really cheap? Ever wonder why? Poor people never buy them because they know better, they buy the Honda instead. If the poor person is dumb and buys one, they'll be out of a car real quick when the tranny or something needs work and the parts aren't easily available and they're stupid expensive.

It's about cost of ownership and reliability.

Plus the wheels just suck. How wide are they?


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

I have a set of Ksyrium SL's from 2002-3 that look like OP's.

19 mm outside and 13.3 mm inside.

$300 for a 12+ YO wheels does not seem like much of a terrific deal to me.

Up until a couple of years ago I might have sided with the "OK and durable" crowd, then I had a DS spoke fail on a ride.

So much distortion that wheel jammed in the frame and ride over. Thankfully I was close to public transport .

Replacement spokes for that vintage may be hard to find. The one I got was a couple of mm too long, cost $12 but worked.

Hard to trust the wheels after that though.


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

MMsRepBike said:


> There's a good reason those wheels were on craigslist for cheap. If I were you I'd put them right back on craigslist for the same price and listen to the boys above.
> 
> Ever seen a Mercedes or nice VW or something selling really cheap? Ever wonder why? Poor people never buy them because they know better, they buy the Honda instead. If the poor person is dumb and buys one, they'll be out of a car real quick when the tranny or something needs work and the parts aren't easily available and they're stupid expensive.
> 
> ...


The invoked Mercedes ownership is a poor comparison to be honest. 

Poor people don't buy Mercedes because they are not stupid. 

Mercedes (or Volvo or ...) = Mavic.

Whenever you visit a licensed Mercedes garage you know you are going to pay an arm and a leg for the service and the Mercedes name branding and proprietary parts.

I have never heard of it before that Mercedes is supposed to stack up better in the durability department.

[I own a driver license but do not own a car and hene do not drive much.]


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

dracula said:


> The invoked Mercedes ownership is a poor comparison to be honest.
> 
> Poor people don't buy Mercedes because they are not stupid.
> 
> ...


Exactly?

Like Mercedes, if your Mavic wheel has a problem you're going to pay an arm and a leg for the service, the name and the proprietary parts.

And like Mercedes, Mavic is NOT more durable or reliable than any other brand, nor is it built any better.

You are aware that Mavic uses proprietary everything right?


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

^^^Listen to these guys re: proprietary parts. It took me several years (and ownership of a set of Mavic wheels) before the impact of proprietary parts sunk in.

Even basic warranty service/inspection required shipping the wheels to a Mavic Service Center because my local LBS didn't want to deal with it.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

tvad said:


> ^^^Listen to these guys re: proprietary parts. It took me several years (and ownership of a set of Mavic wheels) before the impact of proprietary parts sunk in.
> 
> Even basic warranty service/inspection required shipping the wheels to a Mavic Service Center because my local LBS didn't want to deal with it.


I remember a thread with contribution from the Mavic rep (Maviczac?) where the official Mavic line was that if a spoke breaks and Mavic repair it they replace all the spokes. At that point one might as well bin the wheel if it's an older one.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

tvad said:


> ^^^Listen to these guys re: proprietary parts. It took me several years (and ownership of a set of Mavic wheels) before the impact of proprietary parts sunk in.
> Even basic warranty service/inspection required shipping the wheels to a Mavic Service Center because my local LBS didn't want to deal with it.


Yeah, the wheelset that *I* recommended above, that Mr Dracula jumped all over, contains rims that are readily available and affordable, hubs made in N. America that are easily home-serviceable and $1 Sapim Laser spokes. November Dave could have used $3 CX-Rays which cost 300% more than the Laser and give (arguably) 1% more benefit, but he didn't. He uses easily obtained, inexpensive, easily-replaced-at-home spokes.

And they don't need shipping away for a weeks or months turnaround.

I'll forgive Mr Dracula for his ignorance and naivety. Lots wouldn't. His term "hand built junkies" is a badge of honor.


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## FeltF75rider (Feb 10, 2012)

Proud hand built junkie here.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Not make this about semantics but "hand built", or not, doesn't really tell the whole story about ease and expense dealing with of proprietary parts, special tools or whatever. Just ask anyone who got some hand built wheels with Alchemy hubs. What a freaking nightmare that was for me. 

I'm a big far of handbuilt wheels too....but you do need to select the parts such that you get the advantages. And by the same token there are plenty of wheels coming out of factories that won't give you the problems like Mavics.


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## Roland44 (Mar 21, 2013)

FeltF75rider said:


> Proud hand built junkie here.


Same here, we need to print out t-shirts or something


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

Mike T. said:


> Yeah, the wheelset that *I* recommended above, that Mr Dracula jumped all over, contains rims that are readily available and affordable, hubs made in N. America that are easily home-serviceable and $1 Sapim Laser spokes. November Dave could have used $3 CX-Rays which cost 300% more than the Laser and give (arguably) 1% more benefit, but he didn't. He uses easily obtained, inexpensive, easily-replaced-at-home spokes.
> 
> And they don't need shipping away for a weeks or months turnaround.
> 
> I'll forgive Mr Dracula for his ignorance and naivety. Lots wouldn't. His term "hand built junkies" is a badge of honor.


I have no dog in this fight. Really. I do not mind if people buy hand built wheels (I have been following RIP Jobst Brandt on rec.bicycles.tech for years).

If someone tells me the hand built wheel market is increasing (yes increasing) I will not object to this proposition. I am astounded that there are still so many riders around prefering hand built wheels - WAIT - given the fact that the percentage of featured hand built wheels in road and MTB magazines tends to go towards zero.

Anyway the guy bought a $300 wheelset and it could well mean it turns out to be cheaper for him than jumping on a set of $550 hand built wheels.

Again, I have no dog in his fight.*

* Except for decent shoes. Yes I wear English made shoes every day (admittedly the entry level ones Cheaney or Barker) where the shoe last and uppers can be rebuild on the bench in Northampton (UK). Horses for courses.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

dracula said:


> If someone tells me the hand built wheel market is increasing (yes increasing) I will not object to this proposition. I am astounded that there are still so many riders around prefering hand built wheels - WAIT - given the fact that the percentage of featured hand built wheels in road and MTB magazines tends to go towards zero.


November's Nimbus Ti wheels would be featured if the company spent as much money on advertising as the mainstream brands, but then their wheels would be more expensive. Mavic is the Budweiser of the cycling world. They splatter their name everywhere and even get famous people to use their stuff. It doesn't mean their products are good, though.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

dracula said:


> If someone tells me the hand built wheel market is increasing (yes increasing) I will not object to this proposition. I am astounded that there are still so many riders around prefering hand built wheels - WAIT - given the fact that the percentage of featured hand built wheels in road and MTB magazines tends to go towards zero.


I've never though for one second that handbuilt wheels are on the increase. I'll bet that the biggest percentage of cyclists don't even know that handbuilt wheels (home, LBS or small wheelbuilding business) even exist. Most people buy factory ready-built bikes (*none* of which come with hand-built [ok, "non-factory"] wheels anymore) and never give a thought to how the wheel parts were assembled.

Take a look around at the next group or organized mass ride that you're on. Try to find *one* non-factory wheelset.

But some of us (and I don't have a dog in the fight either as I don't make $0.01 from wheelbuilding) think that, for most people, customized hand-built wheels are a better way to go. I won't list the reasons for my opinion as they're all on my site. I just try to be a source of education so that people can know that there are choices. I got an e-mail recently (and it wasn't my first) that said "Wow I had no idea that we could build our own wheels."



> Anyway the guy bought a $300 wheelset and it could well mean it turns out to be cheaper for him than jumping on a set of $550 hand built wheels.


If he ever has to have a rim replaced or a set of spokes replaced or wait weeks (months?) for his wheels to be fixed he might find out that he went the expensive route.

And by the way. Those $300 and $595 sets of wheels can't be compared other than by price (the Novembers just went up in price - read why). Name me ONE set of $300 wheels that match the November in parts quality, parts replacement cost, servicability and availability.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

FeltF75rider said:


> Proud hand built junkie here.


I'll never own another Volvo. I bought a set of Ksyriums when they first came out for $800. This must have been 15 years ago. This was before there were different versions of them. I rode them a lot and they held up really well. Only broke a spoke once and the LBS had one in stock. I bought a custom set from speed dream ten years or so. Really nice riding wheels but I must have rebuilt those crappy American Classic hubs three times. The WI hubs that November uses are really good. I've got custom wheels with WI hubs on two of my bikes. At this point, I'd never consider a Mavic wheel. They're not very light, not very aero, and not reasonably priced. Sell both sets and get the November wheels.


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

Mike T. said:


> Take a look around at the next group or organized mass ride that you're on. Try to find *one* non-factory wheelset.


I am not riding in a club or with a pal and I am always solo on my rides.

However, I see a lot of hand built wheels in my area (Edinburgh). I am often suprised to see people riding very expensive carbon frames, Record groupset and 32 or 36 spoke wheels. I never dared to ask them (bussy keeping up with them in the slipstream) if they are racers and just training and pull out the good deep section carbon stuff on Sundays.

Admittedly I also see a lot of Mavic Aksiums and Elites. However, I hardly see ever anyone riding say Fulcrum wheels.

Again, my observation is probably biased (I would get a better insight if joing a cycling club or going on a group ride).


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

dracula said:


> I am not riding in a club or with a pal and I am always solo on my rides.
> 
> However, I see a lot of hand built wheels in my area (Edinburgh). I am often suprised to see people riding very expensive carbon frames, Record groupset and 32 or 36 spoke wheels. I never dared to ask them (bussy keeping up with them in the slipstream) if they are racers and just training and pull out the good deep section carbon stuff on Sundays.
> 
> ...


Who cares what anyone else is riding. They could all be idiots. Looking at what other people use as gear and forming some sort of assumption on it is idiotic. "Good" deep section carbon stuff? You have a lot to learn.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

dracula said:


> I am not riding in a club or with a pal and I am always solo on my rides.
> 
> However, I see a lot of hand built wheels in my area (Edinburgh). I am often suprised to see people riding very expensive carbon frames, Record groupset and 32 or 36 spoke wheels.


The tone I am getting is that you say this as if 32/36 spoke wheels are a bad thing? That is the dreck we have been fed by factory wheel manufacturers that higher spoke count wheels are somehow inferior and not sexy. People seem to think lower spoke count means weight savings, when in fact, in order to make lower spoke count wheels work without failure, the rims themselves must be heavier, thereby negating any weight savings.



dracula said:


> Admittedly I also see a lot of Mavic Aksiums ....


Typical entry level factory wheels. You find these on many new bikes because they are inexpensive and therefore keep the total price of the bike down.


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## Lombard (May 8, 2014)

Mike T. said:


> ^^^This^^^^^^This^^^^^^This^^^.
> 
> Then order theses -
> 
> ...


^^^And this^^^

IMHO, the only reason to buy a factory wheelset is price. Most of these have proprietary parts which are not replaceable if something goes wrong. They are throw-aways. So if you only paid $200 for these and they last you 5K miles, well, you got what you paid for. I would not pay more than that for a new pair, much less a used pair.

As you can see, there is not a lot of love for Mavic wheels as of late. Their quality has slipped and they have not kept up with the times. That being said, I do know someone who got 40K miles out of an older pair of Ksyriums (not sure which model) with an emphasis on OLDER. If you must keep one pair of these, I would choose the older ones and sell the newer ones if hand built wheels are out of your price range.


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

MMsRepBike said:


> Who cares what anyone else is riding. They could all be idiots. Looking at what other people use as gear and forming some sort of assumption on it is idiotic. "Good" deep section carbon stuff? You have a lot to learn.


Who knows if they are idiots and if they are as smart as you are. But odds are those idiots are winning races.

When was the last time you won a race on your 36 spoke wheels?


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

Lombard said:


> The tone I am getting is that you say this as if 32/36 spoke wheels are a bad thing? .


Not necessarily. It just makes we wonder when I see people riding with expensive equipment but hand built wheels. I mean no one needs Super Record. 

I bought new wheels Shimano RS31 and they are heavy as hell with an advertised weight of 1950 gr. However, it also happend I am not slower on them on one of my very hilly 1 hour time tial circuits than I was on my former wheelset with a claimed weight of 1600 gr.

I could have gone hand built with £300-400 but I couldn't pass the £98,- deal. And if it happens that I have to replace the wheelset after 2 years - so what - I chuck it out. I know from an environmental point of view it is not good, and all I am hoping for is a way to recycle them (I think alloy will be recycled and not end up in the oceans as often seen with plastic).


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## JasonB176 (Aug 18, 2011)

Ksyrium SSC SL were the wheels that came with my 2002 Jamis. I liked them but the rear one didn't last too long. This happened:


The front one is still fine. I've had other issues with Mavics like their famous squeal caused by problems with the rear hub. All three of my bikes currently have Mavics but I'm going to try the November wheels when future needs arise.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

dracula said:


> Who knows if they are idiots and if they are as smart as you are. But odds are those idiots are winning races.
> 
> When was the last time you won a race on your 36 spoke wheels?


Again, making assumptions does ZERO good for you. Who cares if they're winning races? What does that mean to you? Nothing, that's what it means. What they are riding and what they are doing with it has NOTHING to do with you. 

So you're the type that just buys whatever the guy that won the race is using? Do you think it'll make you win? 

I think it's time you look up EPO.


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

JasonB176 said:


> Ksyrium SSC SL were the wheels that came with my 2002 Jamis. I liked them but the rear one didn't last too long. This happened:
> 
> 
> The front one is still fine. I've had other issues with Mavics like their famous squeal caused by problems with the rear hub. All three of my bikes currently have Mavics but I'm going to try the November wheels when future needs arise.


You are not the first to mention the Mavic squeal blunder (and cracked rims*).

I have read the remedy is to invest in the proper oil or there is a guy on ebay selling a conversion kit.

I know it shouldn't happen in the first place.

Not really relevant to the discussion as the OP is not a clydesdale. But this guy (Wheels » Archive » Super Clydesdale) tries to find his luck with factory built wheels and is keeps breaking spokes. However, he also has no luck with hand built wheels: "My “bombproof” Mavic CXP22 rim has cracked. Lasted about a year, and I didn’t use them all Winter — I used another wheelset as my poor-weather wheels. So, I am now convinced that for a Clydesdale, Mavic=crap."
I think he would have cracked any other rim as well.


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## dracula (Mar 9, 2010)

MMsRepBike said:


> Again, making assumptions does ZERO good for you. Who cares if they're winning races? What does that mean to you? Nothing, that's what it means. What they are riding and what they are doing with it has NOTHING to do with you.
> 
> So you're the type that just buys whatever the guy that won the race is using? Do you think it'll make you win?
> 
> I think it's time you look up EPO.


I do not know about you. There is maybe a reason why you are a student forever.

However, the only person making assumptions about others and calling names is you. 

Good luck sitting in your room and making assumption about your world around you (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave)


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

Calm down, ladies. If you want to engage in an endless pissing contest, go badger AM999 in PO.


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