# C-59's Debut



## WrenchScienceCliff (Feb 12, 2010)

A pretty good start for the C-59 and Team Bbox:

http://colnago.cyclingnews.com/highlights/colnago-c59-debuts-at-giro-d’italia/


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## JeremyP (Apr 30, 2006)

Arashiro should have been given the C59, his performance and coverage on the Italian broadcaster was EPIC.


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## BDB (Jul 8, 2002)

Looks like he got one.

as has Voeckler, but no photo of it yet










https://www.colnago.com/news/2010/colnago-give-arashiro-a-giro-present


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## varian72 (Jul 18, 2006)

Them's fightin' words for the EPS:

Arashiro is the third rider to receive *Colnago’s new range-topping C59* after previous models were prepared for Colnago-CSF sprinter Sacha Modolo and Bbox team leader Thomas Voeckler. As was the case for those two riders, Arashiro’s frame has been extensively personalised.


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

That's very bold of Arashiro plastering "Hissho" aka "Certain Victory" all over his bike. That is not his name!

Not to mention that headbands bearing that slogan, along with"Divine Wind," were worn by the Kamikaze pilots in their Zero-Sens. 

Guess where "Certain Victory" very specifically relates to?.. that's right... Pearl Harbor. 

As an American, it makes me want to ***puke***

The thing is most Europeans are not astute enough to understand the negative connoctations. Its just like plastering "Deutsches Kreuz" all over the Zabel EPS Colnago. How about a C59, "Il Duce" Benito edition? 

That stuff is outright *disgusting.* Why doesn't Arashiro wear a hachimaki (bandana) as well when he's riding?

***I can't believe Colnago has that on their web site!!!***

Colors no doubt influenced by the plane....

Look at "Page 42" of this link to a book called "Pearl Harbor: Day of Infamy"

http://books.google.com/books?id=BW...&resnum=2&ved=0CBgQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

iyeoh said:


> That's very bold of Arashiro plastering "Hissho" aka "Certain Victory" all over his bike. That is not his name!
> 
> Not to mention that headbands bearing that slogan, along with"Divine Wind," were worn by the Kamikaze pilots in their Zero-Sens.
> 
> ...


You have to wonder if he himself understands its historical meaning or if he is just repeating something he heard because he is a moron. Regardless, after a couple of complaints to Colnago/B-box, they should cut that BS out. I'm pretty sure the Japanese wouldn't want to see something like "Hiroshima" on the side of an American's bike.


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

fabsroman said:


> You have to wonder if he himself understands its historical meaning


And then there's the other bozo Sacha Modolo, who has the audacity to actually call himself "The Cannibal." He's kinda lacking in major victories, don't you think?

I'm sure somewhere in Africa, there's anAfrican dude with a caricature of a dumb European in a safari hat painted on his bike frame... maybe nicknamed "The Colonist"


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

iyeoh said:


> And then there's the other bozo Sacha Modolo, who has the audacity to actually call himself "The Cannibal." He's kinda lacking in major victories, don't you think?
> 
> I'm sure somewhere in Africa, there's anAfrican dude with a caricature of a dumb European in a safari hat painted on his bike frame... maybe nicknamed "The Colonist"


It doesn't take a Phd to be a pro cyclist, or even much in the ethics department for that matter.


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

I sometimes forget that a lot of these cyclists just got out of high school, and some were born *after* LeMond finished on the Champs in 1989 eight seconds ahead.


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

fabsroman said:


> It doesn't take a Phd to be a pro cyclist, or even much in the ethics department for that matter.


Sorry to quote you....

It doesn't take a Phd to be CEO of a bicycle company, or even much in the ethics department for that matter.

For Old Man E, this is inexcusable. Its his 60th anniversary as CEO, gifts to the Pope etc. I wonder which side he ***actually*** sympathizes with!!!


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## tedgrant (Jun 13, 2006)

as an american who lost relatives in the pacific war, I say...

so what?
colnago can paint their bikes any damn color they want. , with any slogan they see fit. 

divine wind, certain victory are merely motivational slogans to that japanese cyclist. he knows what they mean. 
I commend that rider for the confidence to put that logo on his ride. I now want to put "divine wind "on my S works tricross. The colnago c50 cross stays as is...


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

tedgrant said:


> as an american who lost relatives in the pacific war, I say...
> 
> so what?
> colnago can paint their bikes any damn color they want. , with any slogan they see fit.
> ...



Sure....

I'll buy that Zabel EPS and paint on it.. "Weimarer Republik," "Das Dritte Reich," "Mein Kampf," and "Juden Verboten." I'll peel off the Colnago headtube sticker and paste a pic of "Eisernes Kreuz."

Oh... I forgot this is an Italian bike... let's have the Mussolini version then.... 

I lost 3/4 of my extended family in WWII to attrocities ... and they were all civilians except one....


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## tedgrant (Jun 13, 2006)

It would seem obvious that the japanese cyclist chose those decals himself. 

they mean something to him. Having been to japan, I know that the japanese are very nationalistic, but in this day and age , they can express it through sport rather than warfare.

the real crime here is colnago going away from the garish paint jobs that make their bikes so cool. that bike looks no different from a cervelo or giant
Emulating the asthetics of made in Taiwan companies like cervelo and specialized with the giant made for TV size decals, is a mistake, in my opinion


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

Nationalistic? Xenophobic? Yes, all of the above. But what culture isn't nationalistic?

At least we Americans don't ride bikes that say: "we sure be kickin' yer ass".... same meaning as "Certain Victory."

You would really stick a sticker that says "Divine Wind" on your bike? Do you know how many sailors and marines saw that image as the last thing they saw before their young lives were taken away from them? Do you know that their sacrifice supports the liberty and freedom that we all enjoy? You want to dishonor their memory?

"Kami" is god. "kaze" is wind. Divine wind = Kamikaze.

Anyway, you're just a "Gaijin" as am I. So, "god" doesn't apply to you because you are an inferior substandard, below-par-intelligence alien (somewhat less than human).. and they don't even have to tell you that... its written all over their faces. Same applies for most of us, including myself. Therefore, you will not have any Divine Wind, Gaijin. We're not members of the superior race. Sorry.


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## Jbartmc (Sep 14, 2007)

Two Axis powers joining in bad taste is what I see , as well as squandering an opportunity to highlight the new frame and a noble aspect of Japanese culture and history.


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

The absolute worst part is that his hometown is Okinawa, as I found out on an Asian forum. The US has been protecting his butt all his life on Okinawa. Don't give me the BS that he doesn't understand what Pearl Harbor is all about.


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## canthidefromme (Jun 29, 2006)

"Certain Victory" has a much broader meaning in Japanese culture than those associated with WW2. Just saying.


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## canthidefromme (Jun 29, 2006)

That bike isn't the only fighter plane bike:










Except GB was our ally.


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

Sure, "Hissho" can have other broad proud meanings... good for Arashiro...

In Chinese and Indian culture, swastikas have traditionally meant "brotherhood," "well being," eternal peace," "sun" (as in divine inspiration), among many other wholesome things. Perhaps I should place swastikas all over my bike and ride it through Europe. It means a whole lot of good to me.. I don't see why those guys in Europe are so hyped up about a symbol that means so much good to me.

Perhaps I should paint my bike as a B-29 Superfortress and call it the "Enola Gay." I'll have a matching jersey and my shorts will say "Pacific Relocation Authority." The back of my jersey will say "No Fear: Jap Free" and I'll ride through Chiyoda-ku (as in the 23 sections of central Tokyo). Its all wholesome to me and I'm a proud American, damnit!

I happen to be an admirer of Wilheim Messerschmidt. He was a great engineer. How would you like me to ride a Bf109 or Me262 replica through downtown London?


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## canthidefromme (Jun 29, 2006)

Wow straw manned and guilty by association all at once


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

all this is nonsense

Even if he wanted to imply the WW2 fighters, is his own right.

He is Japanese, so he can be proud of his history and cultural legacy and doesn't have to ask permission nor give a damn about what the americans or the french or the congolese think about his patriotism or his liking or preference for a national simbol.

I'm calling Godwin's Law


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Salsa_Lover said:


> all this is nonsense
> 
> Even if he wanted to imply the WW2 fighters, is his own right.
> 
> ...


You are correct. He can do whatever he likes. Kind of like Tiger. He did whatever he wanted. Nothing criminal about that. How are his sponsorships doing?

Likewise, I can do whatever I want with my money, and decide because of this that I do not want to spend my $5,500+ on a Colnago frame.

This reminds me of Leatherman multi-tools. The company directly sponsored Kerry during on of the Presidential elections, even though it was getting a lot of bad PR from Republicans out there. When I sent an e-mail to the owner, I actually got a message from the owner saying that it is his company and his money and he can do what he wants with it. Fine by me. A month or two after the election and Kerry's loss, I received another e-mail from him asking me to think about Leatherman, Inc.'s employees and their families, some of which had no political affiliation with Kerry, the next time I went to buy a multi-tool. Seems as though sales were down after he pulled what he did. I wrote back and told him that he should have thought of his employees and their families before he did what he did, and that I would still not buy another Leatherman product. The company seems to still be in business to this day, even though I have never bought another tool from it. However, I am willing to bet the owner learned a hard lesson. While a person can do almost anything they want as long as it isn't criminal, it doesn't mean it does not come with any consequences.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

fabs

You can do wathever you want, with your money and you can chose to "punish" a company, not buying from them.

But my point is this is nonsense.

One japanese rider is simply being patriotic, in the same way you are, and probably you don't understand that, because his understanting of those simbols have to be seen from their cultural and historic perspective, not yours.

It is like Cavendish bike, is painted like a british bomber, so some german guy can feel ofended because his family died during the bombings in WW2 and decide not to buy Scott.

and you know what, it simply doesn't matter. it is just perceptions and preconceptions some individuals have.

My criticism was more in the sense of the arrogance of some who think that whatever that is done in the world requires in some way approval by America.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Salsa_Lover said:


> fabs
> 
> You can do wathever you want, with your money and you can chose to "punish" a company, not buying from them.
> 
> ...


Nah, I think iyeoh gave some pretty good examples of how this kind of thing applies everywhere.

For instance, a person riding a bike through Europe with swaztikas painted all over it would not be received well. Same thing would go in the US I would presume. Iyeoh gave better examples than I did as far as insulting other cultures is concerned. What comes to mind is riding a bike painted like the Enola Gay with mushroom clouds and a pic of Big Boy on it through Hiroshima or Nagasaki, Do you really think that would be received well by the citizens of those cities?

It just so happens that it was mostly Americans that died at the hands of the Japanese. It was also a war that America really did not ask for, and Pearl Harbor was pretty terrible from what I have read. From what I read, we also got lucky in that war when an errant plane actually spotted the Japanese fleet and we were able to bomb the poop out of it. Otherwise, the Pacific campaign might have cost a lot more American lives. Heck, it took 2 nuclear bombs dropped in Japan to actually get the Japanese to surrender, and even then, the Emperor didn't think the destruction was true.


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## The_Kraken (Jul 28, 2009)

*Hold On Here!!!!!*

Are you guys telling me that those Chinese Characters don't mean "Made In Italy"??!!!!


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

The_Kraken said:


> Are you guys telling me that those Chinese Characters don't mean "Made In Italy"??!!!!


LOL


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## canthidefromme (Jun 29, 2006)

fabsroman said:


> Nah, I think iyeoh gave some pretty good examples of how this kind of thing applies everywhere.
> 
> For instance, *a person riding a bike through Europe with swaztikas painted all over it would not be received well*. Same thing would go in the US I would presume. Iyeoh gave better examples than I did as far as insulting other cultures is concerned. What comes to mind is riding a bike painted like the Enola Gay with mushroom clouds and a pic of Big Boy on it through Hiroshima or Nagasaki, Do you really think that would be received well by the citizens of those cities?
> 
> I*t just so happens that it was mostly Americans that died at the hands of the Japanese.* It was also a war that America really did not ask for, and Pearl Harbor was pretty terrible from what I have read. From what I read, we also got lucky in that war when an errant plane actually spotted the Japanese fleet and we were able to bomb the poop out of it. Otherwise, the Pacific campaign might have cost a lot more American lives. Heck, it took 2 nuclear bombs dropped in Japan to actually get the Japanese to surrender, and even then, the Emperor didn't think the destruction was true.


A swastika is a much different symbol than the rising sun, which is still on the Japanese flag. 

It was actually mostly Chinese that died--to the tune of 20 million. And it's not like America was a truly neutral country before 1941.


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## canthidefromme (Jun 29, 2006)

Someone on a Japanese bike forum is posting the same thing about Hincapie's bike and how the American flag is an obvious sign of American imperialism and the brutality of America's military all over the world since 1776. And he can't believe that BMC would allow Hincapie to have such racist propaganda on their bike. This guy will never buy a BMC ever again in his life! It makes him physically ill!


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

canthidefromme said:


> Someone on a Japanese bike forum is posting the same thing about Hincapie's bike and how the American flag is an obvious sign of American imperialism and the brutality of America's military all over the world since 1776. And he can't believe that BMC would allow Hincapie to have such racist propaganda on their bike. This guy will never buy a BMC ever again in his life! It makes him physically ill!


Guess what, my C50 has the Italian colors on it in ST01. I have no issue with the guy putting the Japanese flag on his bike. Zero issue with that whatsoever. However, iyeoh has stated that the Japanese characters on the bike mean Divine Wind, which translate to Kamikaze and which was a Japanese saying in World War II. So, therein lies my problem. Not in the display of a rider's patriotism to his own country, but in using sayings from wars to display such patriotism. Next thing you know, some middle easterner will be riding a bike with a pic of the Twin Towers on fire and a plane about to slam into the Pentagon in a show of his patriotism. Would something like that be acceptable? Putting something a little more current out there to discuss makes it extremely clear that something like that would not be acceptable. How about if Hincapie had his bike painted to show US bombers fire bombing Dresden during World War II and mothers and babies being sucked into the blazing fire because of the high winds created by the oxygen consumption of the fire?

So, are we clear on my position? Flags and country colors that show patriotism is fine with me. War sayings and symbols of war are not. Do these cyclists actually think they are warriors/soldiers? I wonder how many of them have actually served in the military.


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## JeremyP (Apr 30, 2006)

Interesting isn't it, the American perspective, vs the European perspective, and that of the Eastern perspective. 

Take a chill pill guys, this the Colnago forum . Oh and thanks to the Kraken for posting the prices on those Colnagos on that clearout. Can I also have an EPS for 1.8k .


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

JeremyP said:


> Interesting isn't it, the American perspective, vs the European perspective, and that of the Eastern perspective.
> 
> Take a chill pill guys, this the Colnago forum . Oh and thanks to the Kraken for posting the prices on those Colnagos on that clearout. Can I also have an EPS for 1.8k .


Where did Kraken post the prices for his Colnago blowout? I didn't see them in this thread.


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## JeremyP (Apr 30, 2006)

was on his ebay sale, the prices were I think when veltec cleared out their stock.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

JeremyP said:


> was on his ebay sale, the prices were I think when veltec cleared out their stock.


I was just looking at the blue Zabel in 52 traditional. Yep, those appear to be the Veltec prices. It is a pretty sad state of affairs with Colnago in the US.


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

fabsroman said:


> Guess what, my C50 has the Italian colors on it in ST01. I have no issue with the guy putting the Japanese flag on his bike. Zero issue with that whatsoever. However, iyeoh has stated that the Japanese characters on the bike mean Divine Wind, which translate to Kamikaze and which was a Japanese saying in World War II. So, therein lies my problem. Not in the display of a rider's patriotism to his own country, but in using sayings from wars to display such patriotism. Next thing you know, some middle easterner will be riding a bike with a pic of the Twin Towers on fire and a plane about to slam into the Pentagon in a show of his patriotism. Would something like that be acceptable? Putting something a little more current out there to discuss makes it extremely clear that something like that would not be acceptable. How about if Hincapie had his bike painted to show US bombers fire bombing Dresden during World War II and mothers and babies being sucked into the blazing fire because of the high winds created by the oxygen consumption of the fire?
> 
> So, are we clear on my position? Flags and country colors that show patriotism is fine with me. War sayings and symbols of war are not. Do these cyclists actually think they are warriors/soldiers? I wonder how many of them have actually served in the military.


You are exagerating, that "Divine Wind" phrase you as an american can relate it to Pearl Harbor, but my educated guess it that for the Japanese it relates to the honour of the Japanese warrior who gives his life using himself as a bomb ( Kamikaze) remember the honour suicide ( Harakiri ) is very present on the Japanese culture and it is not a sign of surrended but exactly the oposite.

Those simbols have nothing to to with swasticas or the nazis. Also you should consider that swasticas and nazi simbols are forbiden in many places in Europe, while there are legal and even protected by the police in America ( I have seen it on a documentary, how the police protected the neo-nazis in Oklahoma because according to them, they have freedom of speech and then are rightful to do their rallys ), you would never see this in Europe.

Also see Cavendish's bike, it is a WW2 bomber. sure he is not implying he will be killing germans isn't him ? ( or maybe Greipel was in his mind ? )


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## rodist (Sep 2, 2005)

*Who cares*

People are so quick to find things to ***** about nowadays. Who cares what symbols, sayings, flags and colors people paint on thier bike. It's not my bike, I don't care. To each his own. This ultra sensitivity in the world today is brutal. Grow a set, suck it up, deal with with. Happy Monday everyone!


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

rodist said:


> People are so quick to find things to ***** about nowadays. Who cares what symbols, sayings, flags and colors people paint on thier bike. It's not my bike, I don't care. To each his own. This ultra sensitivity in the world today is brutal. Grow a set, suck it up, deal with with. Happy Monday everyone!


We will have to agree to disagree on this.

Glad to know that somebody can give you the finger, tell you to F-off, grow a set, suck it up, and you would be indifferent about it.

Honestly, I would love to see you face to face for this debate, and give you some of my own symbols and see how you like it.

I'm not a big fan of Cavendish's bike being painted like a British bomber either.

As I said earlier, people can do whatever they want that is lawful. Heck, a manufacturer can put a swaztika on its product, but you can bet I will not be buying it. Freedom of speech is protected in the US, to a degree, but you can bet I would not buy the product of a company that supports a group of people that use swaztikas.

Like I said, we will have to agree to disagree.


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## rodist (Sep 2, 2005)

I agree with your point that if a manufacturer offends you, don’t buy the product. I make those choices everyday. Flipping me off to my face is a personal attack. I don't believe a manufacture who paints a swastika on a product would be specifically directing their anti-Semitic slur towards you, just the race in general. There are offensive general statements made everyday by corporations, countries and people, unless they are directed personally at me, I choose to blow them off and move on. What is painted on a bike never will affect me personally unless someone paints F U Rodist on their top tube, if that ever happened, it would be very cool to see a close up of that during the tour coverage on Versus. I work out of a home office and have the national cable news and stock stations on all day. 90% of time it’s someone *****ing about something, I come hear to get away from that.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

rodist said:


> I agree with your point that if a manufacturer offends you, don’t buy the product. I make those choices everyday. Flipping me off to my face is a personal attack. I don't believe a manufacture who paints a swastika on a product would be specifically directing their anti-Semitic slur towards you, just the race in general. There are offensive general statements made everyday by corporations, countries and people, unless they are directed personally at me, I choose to blow them off and move on. What is painted on a bike never will affect me personally unless someone paints F U Rodist on their top tube, if that ever happened, it would be very cool to see a close up of that during the tour coverage on Versus. I work out of a home office and have the national cable news and stock stations on all day. 90% of time it’s someone *****ing about something, I come hear to get away from that.


I work from a home office too, and come here to get away from work. I don't have the national cable news going here. I take a look at stocks on Yahoo Finance every once in a while, but not too often.


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## rodist (Sep 2, 2005)

The quiet would kill me. I owned a manufacturing company for 22 years. The louder the plant was, the more money I was making. Sold it in 92. It was that or move the plant to Mexico or Offshore. What was the original post of this thread? C-59 Debut.


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## Karbon Kev (Sep 7, 2009)

I too work from a home office, suits me too. Couldn't work with many distractions around, particularly excessive noise ......


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## canthidefromme (Jun 29, 2006)

Victims of zebra stampedes everywhere are upset.


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

PETA will be unhappy


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## tedgrant (Jun 13, 2006)

Can we just go back to the Mapei color scheme and call it a day?

I mean, the 80s are back in a big way, and most pro riders are from the 80s??????


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## canthidefromme (Jun 29, 2006)

I think as Colnago appreciators, this bike should be more controversial:


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

canthidefromme said:


> I think as Colnago appreciators, this bike should be more controversial:


sweet jesus, that's hideous..


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

canthidefromme said:


> I think as Colnago appreciators, this bike should be more controversial:


That can easily be made into an item of immense beauty... a stunning track bike. I don't know what you are talking about. Its beautiful.

Get rid of the wheels in favor of white Campagnolo Ghibli Pista discs at the back and front. Ditch all the components in favor or Campagnolo Record Pista. 

Cinelli pista stem and track 65-42 bars, or steel cowhorns with blue tape. Campagnolo Record Pista pedals and dual white Campagnolo toestraps. Or white Look clipless pedals, Bernard Hinault style. 

White or Blue Selle San Marco Concor saddle, or Rolls or Regal. Classic Vittoria Pista CS tubulars, or new Thai-made Evo CS Pista Blue tubulars. or Crono CS TT tubulars.

Or.. Campagnolo Shamal HPW wheels, C-Record Friction, C-Record Deltas, ITM Colnago Stem, ITM handlebars, blue Colnago logo cork tape and make it into a time trial machine.

Just needs a little TLC and polishing. Team Lampre was a highly successful Colnago outfit that rode pink and blue bikes.

This is an awesome steel frame. At least I can see the beauty in it. I can come up with a thousand ways to restore it to glory.

On the other hand, I can't get half this excited about any post-C-40 carbon Colnago... and when I see monocoque, the word "traversty" instantaneously comes to my mind... so...


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## tedgrant (Jun 13, 2006)

love it..... hipster chariot


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## tedgrant (Jun 13, 2006)

I think the beauty of colnagos is that one really HAS to get the most garish paint job one can find..

I had a all yellow aluminum one which was much snazzier than the all black carbon c50 i had.

if I get another one it will be mapei colors or pink or some retro combination


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

I love the LX10 and the AD22 paint schemes

I have the C-40 on LX10 and I am currently looking for a Master Olympic on AD22


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## nicensleazy (Aug 3, 2008)

Latest Colnago C59 test ride report!!!

http://colnagoconbrio.posterous.com/


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