# "Road Plus" / Wide Tires for Allroad Bike



## LanterneRouge14 (Nov 5, 2011)

Maybe my browser and/or search function are faulty, but I've searched and haven't found much discussion regarding wide tires (ie around 42 to 50mm width) on a 584mm rim (aka 27.5" or 650B rim), that would get you in the ballpark (or exceed) the same rolling diameter as road tires on a traditional 622mm rim (ie 700C rim). 

Specifically, I'm curious about WTB's new Horizon 47 
"Road Plus" tire and Compass' 42mm Baby Shoe Pass, and 48mm Switchback Hill tires. 

For anyone inclined to type "WTF?!?!", let me start by saying that I don't see these fattish tires replacing standard 23mm to 25mm wide tires on 622mm rims for those looking to maximize their self-propelled speed on smooth roads. 

I'm talking about wide tires on bikes designed *for fast riding on a mix of non-paved as well as paved surfaces*. Call them whatever you like--650B "Rough Stuff" bikes / "Allrounders" / "Gravel Grinders" / "Monster Crossers" / etc. 


What got me thinking about all this was the combination of *this Firefly monster crosser* (yeah, I know those tires are way fatter than what we're discussing, but damn that looks like an incredibly fun bike!) 









mixed with Gerard Vroomen's *U.P. bike*  designed for tires ranging from 40mm to 2.1" wide (for a 27.5" wheel), shown sporting fat 27.5 x 2" dirt tires here









and the buzz about Cannondale's Slate, with its 42mm wide Panaracer tires 









combined with the fact that a disc-brake 700C cyclocross frame could potentially accommodate multiple tire sizes (including fatter tires on a smaller rim) since the lack of canti's or v-brakes won't restrict you to a single rim size. 

That's already a ton of stuff packed into one post, so here are my questions: 
*
1. Do the latest generation of wide (42 to 50+mm), relatively smooth-treaded, surprisingly light-for-their-width 650B tires really deliver what they claim--handle unpaved roads competently while not paying much of a speed penalty (or any penalty) on pavement? Or... 

2. Are they too much of a compromise--not toothy enough to out perform a narrower 700C (622mm) knobby tire on loose surfaces, while being just burly enough to slow you down on the road?*


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## J.R. (Sep 14, 2009)

Not exactly the tires you asked about but some discussion on gravel tires here.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/cy...er-120-tpi-tire-size-700cm-x-40mm-350141.html


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Funnily enough I was riding my new bike with the Clement 40 mm tires today, and don't notice any real difference on the road.


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## wgscott (Jul 14, 2013)

J.R. said:


> Not exactly the tires you asked about but some discussion on gravel tires here.
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/cy...er-120-tpi-tire-size-700cm-x-40mm-350141.html


I have these on mine currently, and I was wondering, briefly, about 27.5" wheels, but then I did some measurements, and discovered the smaller-diameter wheel doesn't really buy me any clearance with my seat stays (they are more or less parallel for about 6").

These tires do slow me down, even relative to the 35mm Clement tires, but since I am slow to begin with and really don't care about going fast, I keep them on for on-road riding as well (I do a mix).

The 40mm Clements basically let me do most (non-technical) stuff I can do on my mountain bike, and the bike is a lot easier and more fun to ride. Try them first. They may be all you need.

Edit: I just clicked the link and discovered it was a thread I started.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

> ..............
> 
> That's already a ton of stuff packed into one post, so here are my questions:
> *
> ...


1. Yes on the first part, no on the second. A supple, file tread, 42mm 650B on a 650B rim has the same diameter as a 23mm on a 700c. Although it offers comfort, stability and speed on rough roads its not as fast as a narrower tire, such as 25mm 700c, on smooth roads. 

2. Toothy tires are good on mud; loose gravel not so much. A wide, file tread tire will be generally better on loose surfaces than a narrower, toothier and knobby tire because it would float rather than dig in. 

If speed on smooth roads is the focus then 25mm to max 28mm (700c) seems to be the cutoff. For rougher surfaces, mixed bag all-rounder, a 28-30-32 seems to be the better fit based on your preference for comfort.
For 650b, 38mm for smooth; 42-45+ for rougher. No magic wand for either. Choose your compromise.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

I'm running the 35mm Clement XPLOR USH 120tpi on my all-road/gravel bike. I love them. I run them at about 55 psi for most conditions. 

I don't have a lot of experience with other tires in this role (all-road), but for my experience these are great.

It's a pretty fast roller on pavement, but still gives pretty good grip and a solid feel on gravel and dirt. 

Here is the tread


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## LanterneRouge14 (Nov 5, 2011)

*Thanks for all the responses!* 

1. Way back in the day, I ran 26" x ~1.8" tires with a file tread and small side knobs similar to these on my rigid mountain bike, converted to drop bar commuter: 








For my 32-mile round trip commute on bad northeast Ohio roads, I eventually replaced those 'cross-inspired treads for a faster rolling 26" x 1.5" smooth road tire. *And for commuting on all kinds of crappy asphalt, I preferred the faster rolling 1.5" smooth tires.* 

2. Since then, I've ridden a few different cyclocross tires (all for 700C rims, all around 32mm wide) like these XG Pros, and have been happy with their performance on dry, hard-packed SoCal dirt roads. But I've never ridden them in mud or gravel, and *if I was gonna do a long ride on a crappy asphalt and hardpacked dirt, I'm not sure I'd reach for these first--I might try something with smaller, more closely spaced knobs/blocks like the Clement X'Plor MSO as suggested by J.R., bikerjulio, and wgscott, or the X'Plor USH as suggested by Migin21*. 









3. I've also got plenty of experience riding smooth 32mm Schwalbe Marathon Supremes that have been on my road bike for about a year now (and 32mm Panaracer Paselas before that). They're not exactly a dirt tire, but they handled hardpack dirt roads on my loaded touring bike surprisingly well. The Supremes would never be my tire choice for anything soft and/or loose (had to go pretty slow, and still not sure how I avoided crashing after hitting a big patch of deep fine sand at the bottom of a long descent down a dirt road), but they got me wondering if a much wider tire with a similar smooth tread would perform any better on softer and looser dirt roads. 









4. DCGriz, thanks for your breakdown--very helpful! I re-edited my original post to emphasize that speed (more than comfort) on unpaved as well as paved roads was my goal, although I'm not opposed to comfort ;^) . Since I ride dry conditions far more often than wet, it sounds like a smoothish tire (file tread, closely spaced small blocks, or smooth tread) would suit my needs better than a traditional 700C 32-34mm knobby 'cross tire. 

I'll need to check the tire clearance on a new disc brake 'cross frame I just received. I'm not sure if it has clearance for the Clement X'Plor tires wider than 35mm on a 622mm rim. Depending on the shape and space between the stays, I may buy some 650B/584mm rims, build up a wheelset, and try these wider tires and report back (but it may be a while...).


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## Orfitinho (Oct 20, 2012)

LanterneRouge14 said:


> The Supremes would never be my tire choice for anything soft and/or loose (had to go pretty slow, and still not sure how I avoided crashing after hitting a big patch of deep fine sand at the bottom of a long descent down a dirt road), but they got me wondering if a much wider tire with a similar smooth tread would perform any better on softer and looser dirt roads.


A wider tire might prevent you - to some degree - from sinking into the sand, but will not give you the traction you need to ride through it.


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## wgscott (Jul 14, 2013)

Migen21 said:


> I'm running the 35mm Clement XPLOR USH 120tpi on my all-road/gravel bike. I love them. I run them at about 55 psi for most conditions.
> 
> I don't have a lot of experience with other tires in this role (all-road), but for my experience these are great.
> 
> ...


The packaging says "reverse tread". I worry that I have run them backward from the intended direction. Which direction should the tread point when it is making contact with the road? Does it really matter?


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Not sure what you're after here but I think the tires you mention are over-kill for what most consider "unpaved roads". Unless you're quite heavy.

I use the ones in the link below for gravel and even those are a little much but I like them because when I ride gravel roads I'm likely to also turn off onto a snowmobile or hiking trail and they are fine on most of them. They are slower on the road but not by very much as compared to 25mm racing tires.

Almanzo 33


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

wgscott said:


> The packaging says "reverse tread". I worry that I have run them backward from the intended direction. Which direction should the tread point when it is making contact with the road? Does it really matter?


Per their FAQ, They prefer the arrows forward, but it's not terribly important.
FAQ | Clement Cycling, Cyclocross Tires, Adventure Tires, Mountain Bike Tires, Road Bike Tires



Clement FAQ said:


> *Q: Which direction should I install the tires?*
> 
> A: We prefer to install all our tires so any arrow-shaped knobs or chevrons face forward when viewed from the top. Typically, the most prominent knobs will have a sloped or ramped leading edge and a more abrupt or steep trailing edge, when viewed from above. This is true for both front and rear tires. On the PDX, the center arrow-shaped knobs face forward. The LAS side knobs form arrows facing forward too. Some riders may install them differently to get different traction characteristics and that’s perfectly OK!


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## LanterneRouge14 (Nov 5, 2011)

Orfitinho said:


> A wider tire might prevent you - to some degree - from sinking into the sand, but will not give you the traction you need to ride through it.


I suspect the same, which is why I was hoping to hear from anyone who has tried a wide, smooth tire in loose and soft dirt. 




Jay Strongbow said:


> *Not sure what you're after here* but I think the tires you mention are over-kill for what most consider "unpaved roads". Unless you're quite heavy.
> 
> I use the ones in the link below for gravel and even those are a little much but I like them because when I ride gravel roads I'm likely to also turn off onto a snowmobile or hiking trail and they are fine on most of them. They are slower on the road but not by very much as compared to 25mm racing tires.
> 
> Almanzo 33


Long story short is that I've ridden a bunch of tires, on a bunch of bikes, on a bunch of surfaces, but *the one combo I haven't yet ridden is a wide, smooth tire (like the WTB Horizon 47, Compass Baby Shoe Pass, or Compass Switchback Hill) on soft or loose surfaces.*

I know there's no free lunch and there's always a tradeoff. Where I ride, it's almost always dry, and surfaces can range from paved, to loose over hard, to decomposed rock that can vary in size from gravel to sand to occasional patches of fine soft talcum-like powder. And for most of those surfaces, the performance of a traditionally sized 700C off-road tire with low rolling resistance like the Almanzo 33 (or the X'Plor MSO and USH, or wider Gravel King SK 40) might be as good as it gets. 

*However the sales pitch for these wide smooth 650B tires sounds interesting, so I'm curious if they perform as advertised: does their width and float compensate enough for their relatively smooth tread to provide adequate traction in soft and/or loose conditions, and just how soft or loose does it need to get before they break traction?* 

Anyway, I stumbled on this thread, "Anybody running Compass tires on gravel?" and found it interesting, especially the references to www.bicyclerollingresistance and the discussion of Schwalbe's 2.35" wide Big One tires


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