# BWW Blackset Race 10 1451g Review



## Mike Overly (Sep 28, 2005)

First the bad news: I should have known something was up when BWW's website claimed their advertised wheel weights depended on "atmospheric conditions." It's possible their advertised 1451 gram Blackset Race 10s were weighed on the moon, as my set came in at a not-that-special 1540 grams sans rim tape & skewers. (I'll give them 20 grams for hub grease, but still, they've *named* these things after this nowhere-close weight).

Packaging consisted of axle-protectors and paper stuffing in wheel-sized boxes, whereas other (even less expensive) wheels I've bought have come well isolated in cardboard slots designed for road wheels. Spokes pinged like popcorn as they seated themselves over my first three miles.

The good news: They run smooth and I don't notice any flex. Most importantly, you can't get a wheel set like this anywhere else for the price so far as I can tell.

I suggest that BWW rename these "Blackset Race 10 1540g" wheel sets. Then they could take the "atmospheric conditions" qualifier out of their web copy, thus shaving possibly 10-15 grams off the weight of their website.


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## tx_newbie (Apr 23, 2006)

Have been considering the same set while building a dedicated racer. Not too concerned with the weight (anything under 1600g is OK for me)--main questions/concerns: 
1) How are the hubs? Roll smoothly? Any drag when jumping/sudden accelerations? 2) What other wheelsets have you used, and how would you compare the BWW to your other wheelsets, especially in terms of stiffness? (I'm coming from AC420s, Reynolds Solitudes, Campy Ventos and the old school Campy Shamals)
And (3)--I'm a fan of the loud hubs...what's the noise factor on these?


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## Mike Overly (Sep 28, 2005)

tx_newbie said:


> Have been considering the same set while building a dedicated racer. Not too concerned with the weight (anything under 1600g is OK for me)--main questions/concerns:
> 1) How are the hubs? Roll smoothly? Any drag when jumping/sudden accelerations? 2) What other wheelsets have you used, and how would you compare the BWW to your other wheelsets, especially in terms of stiffness? (I'm coming from AC420s, Reynolds Solitudes, Campy Ventos and the old school Campy Shamals)
> And (3)--I'm a fan of the loud hubs...what's the noise factor on these?


Hubs are smooth and I don't notice any drag. I have Mavic Open Pros and FSA220s on two other bikes. No direct comparison since the Open Pros are over-built workhorses and the FSAs use an aero rim & lower spoke count. The Blacksets are more responsive and much lighter than the Shimano 105s they replaced. All wheels on my road bikes are stiff enough that I can't flex them. 

I would call the freehub on the Blackset medium-loud: not the clack-clack racket of a Campy freehub, but not silent like the typical Shimano hub. (Or for my purposes, loud enough that trail walkers can hear me coming, but soft enough that I can hear cars approaching at a blind intersection without brake-checking through my pedal strokes to cancel all the clacking noise).


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Mike Overly said:


> I would call the freehub on the Blackset medium-loud.


To make Blackset hubs more quiet, add more lube to the pawls. It's about a 30 second job. Then they're about as loud as my DuraAce.


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## Mike Overly (Sep 28, 2005)

Mike T. said:


> To make Blackset hubs more quiet, add more lube to the pawls. It's about a 30 second job. Then they're about as loud as my DuraAce.


I'm one of the minority that likes a loud freehub (less need to shout "left" on a trail). How do you like the DuraAce wheels compared to the Blacksets?


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## martinrjensen (Sep 23, 2007)

I have to ask. Did you calibrate your scale? Scales don't hold there calibration forever. They have to be constantly re calibrated. This would be especially true when you are talking small figures like you are here, and yes, temperature and air pressure affect weight readings. Easy way to do a home calibration if you don't want to shell out for a calibration weight (they are not cheap). go to the grocery store and pick up a solid object and weigh it on a similar type scale. Maybe a glass jar or something. Do this on several scales to see if there's a difference. Pick a scale that has a similar range and that the weight you are looking at is near the middle of the range (most scales are more accurate in their middle range) if there is a difference, average it out. You should be close at this point. Maybe your grams scale came with a calibration weight? I assume you have one.


Mike Overly said:


> First the bad news: I should have known something was up when BWW's website claimed their advertised wheel weights depended on "atmospheric conditions." It's possible their advertised 1451 gram Blackset Race 10s were weighed on the moon, as my set came in at a not-that-special 1540 grams sans rim tape & skewers. (I'll give them 20 grams for hub grease, but still, they've *named* these things after this nowhere-close weight).
> 
> Packaging consisted of axle-protectors and paper stuffing in wheel-sized boxes, whereas other (even less expensive) wheels I've bought have come well isolated in cardboard slots designed for road wheels. Spokes pinged like popcorn as they seated themselves over my first three miles.
> 
> ...


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Mike Overly said:


> How do you like the DuraAce wheels compared to the Blacksets?


My DA are just hubs and not a wheelset. I have the 7850 hubs. They are a premium hub and their quality and price can't be compared to Blacksets. But my Blackset are good enough and the wheels are excellent, especially for their cost. I would think DuraAce hubs cost more than a whole Blackset Race wheelset


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## been200mph (May 28, 2004)

89g heavier than listed? Ouch. Not good. Altitude/temp/etc don't play a significant role in weight, lol. Even a 100 lb mass only has a roughly 30g difference in weight from about 1000' of elevation to 7500'. Great way to have an out when you are off with the weights, huh?


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## Mike Overly (Sep 28, 2005)

martinrjensen said:


> I have to ask. Did you calibrate your scale? Scales don't hold there calibration forever. They have to be constantly re calibrated. This would be especially true when you are talking small figures like you are here, and yes, temperature and air pressure affect weight readings. Easy way to do a home calibration if you don't want to shell out for a calibration weight (they are not cheap). go to the grocery store and pick up a solid object and weigh it on a similar type scale. Maybe a glass jar or something. Do this on several scales to see if there's a difference. Pick a scale that has a similar range and that the weight you are looking at is near the middle of the range (most scales are more accurate in their middle range) if there is a difference, average it out. You should be close at this point. Maybe your grams scale came with a calibration weight? I assume you have one.


It's an electronic hook scale calibrated with 3 oz. of silver bars. It also agrees with the flat-surface electronic postal-certified scale I use for mailings and smaller items.


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## Mike Overly (Sep 28, 2005)

been200mph said:


> 89g heavier than listed? Ouch. Not good. Altitude/temp/etc don't play a significant role in weight, lol. Even a 100 lb mass only has a roughly 30g difference in weight from about 1000' of elevation to 7500'. Great way to have an out when you are off with the weights, huh?


Again ... there's that moon thing ...  .


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## pdh777 (Oct 7, 2005)

Dyslexic ad poster working for BWW - got the 4 and the 5 inverted.

BTW - still a good deal on those wheels - give us a longer term ride report, like after 200 miles.


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

It is a bit of a difference though yeah...I was thinking a typo after you posted your measured weight. For me, I don't weight them...it is a sure sign to depress me knowing I will not likely feel the difference from some heavy wheels and some light ones. :cryin:


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## 18usc371 (May 20, 2010)

My initial take:

Two weeks from order to door.
Well packaged
Includes skewers
Free water bottle

I upgraded to Sapim for +$145

Front - 615g 
Rear - 805g
Skewers - 104g / pair
Tape - 14g each / uncut or installed
Decals were about 1g each (x4/wheel), so knock 8-9g off total

Hubs spin smooth - no complaints

So, about +60g above advertised.


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## Mike Overly (Sep 28, 2005)

For anyone who's still interested in a review now that I have a few hundred miles in, I'd do these wheels all over again despite the pretty substantial weight discrepancy. Still stiff & running true after 240 miles on mostly good roads. The spokes have seated. Every other low-cost sub-1600g wheelset I can find is in the neighborhood of $600, so I don't think BWW would hurt sales by advertising these closer to their true weight.


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## UltralightHiker (Jun 9, 2011)

Are the decals removable on the Blackset Race 11? The wheels look like a great deal but they are not near as good looking as Rol Race SL or Williams System 30.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

UltralightHiker said:


> Are the decals removable on the Blackset Race 11?


Of course. They're just stickers.



> The wheels look like a great deal but they are not near as good looking as Rol Race SL or Williams System 30.


You're a marketers' dream. Lots of wheelsellers source their parts in Asia, as all the above resellers do, and stick on their fancy decals and the buyers flock in. One of them doesn't spend your money on flash decals. You could design your own and have them made.


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## UltralightHiker (Jun 9, 2011)

Mike T. said:


> Of course. They're just stickers.
> 
> 
> You're a marketers' dream. Lots of wheelsellers source their parts in Asia, as all the above resellers do, and stick on their fancy decals and the buyers flock in. One of them doesn't spend your money on flash decals. You could design your own and have them made.


I asked because I have seen a lot of people state that some wheels have some sort of clear coat to make stickers non-removable, at least very messy if you try.

While I do appreciate aesthetics, I would not call myself a marketers' dream. I admitted that they were a great deal and am asking if I can remove decals. A marketers' dream would have only bought by looks and not considered other wheels.


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## equinoxx (May 23, 2010)

Mike T. said:


> To make Blackset hubs more quiet, add more lube to the pawls. It's about a 30 second job. Then they're about as loud as my DuraAce.


Hate to dig up on old thread, but how do you remove the Blackset hubs? I wantde to add more lube to the pawls. I was under impression the hub just pulls straight out, but mine only moves like 1/4 of an inch and then it seems to be stuck.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

equinoxx said:


> Hate to dig up on old thread, but how do you remove the Blackset hubs? I wantde to add more lube to the pawls. I was under impression the hub just pulls straight out, but mine only moves like 1/4 of an inch and then it seems to be stuck.


There are two methods, that I'm aware of, for getting into Asian hubs. To decide which type you have, try to insert a 5mm allen wrench into one or both axle holes (where the QR goes). If the wrench fits then you insert one into each end of the axle and undo. One of the caps will come off. If it's the drive side cap then, when it's off, you pull on the cassette carrier (cassette on or off, it doesn't matter) and the pawls and drive ring will be revealed. Be careful of the silver washer that is between the cassette carrier and the hub body.

If the non-drive side cap comes off, then push the axle with carrier attached out of the hub. Clean & relube the drive ring and pawls and re-assemble. Rotate the carrier slowly counter-clockwise as you're inserting it to help seat the pawls.

If you can't get a 5mm allen into the axle end then you have the other type of hub and for this, the cassette carrier just pulls off. Some come off easier if you pry up on the end cap and remove it first. You can do this with a screwdriver.

The carrier to hub seal is important and it's easy to get it out of its location. It must rotate very freely in its groove before installing the drive unit.


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## equinoxx (May 23, 2010)

Mike T. said:


> There are two methods, that I'm aware of, for getting into Asian hubs. To decide which type you have, try to insert a 5mm allen wrench into one or both axle holes (where the QR goes). If the wrench fits then you insert one into each end of the axle and undo. One of the caps will come off. If it's the drive side cap then, when it's off, you pull on the cassette carrier (cassette on or off, it doesn't matter) and the pawls and drive ring will be revealed. Be careful of the silver washer that is between the cassette carrier and the hub body.
> 
> If the non-drive side cap comes off, then push the axle with carrier attached out of the hub. Clean & relube the drive ring and pawls and re-assemble. Rotate the carrier slowly counter-clockwise as you're inserting it to help seat the pawls.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip. It was the type that just pulls off. I just needed to get more leverage on it. Based on some other forum messages, i thought i could just pull it straight off with my hands 

Lubed the pawls, put it all back together..MUCH better now.


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

Don't wheel companies give their weight without skewers? That'd explain the difference. 
Yeah I know its an old post...


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## ajxd (Oct 10, 2011)

Been looking at these for a while. Glad to see a write up on em!


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## early one (Jul 20, 2010)

equinoxx said:


> Thanks for the tip. It was the type that just pulls off. I just needed to get more leverage on it. Based on some other forum messages, i thought i could just pull it straight off with my hands
> 
> Lubed the pawls, put it all back together..MUCH better now.



Why are the pawls not lubed at the wheel builders?


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

Mike T. said:


> Lots of wheelsellers source their parts in Asia, as all the above resellers do, and stick on their fancy decals and the buyers flock in. One of them doesn't spend your money on flash decals. You could design your own and have them made.


Oh Mr T I could not agree with you more! We are so tired of seeing junk thats coming out of some generic Asian factory thats claimed to be as good or better than White Industries, Shimano, Campy, ex... 

And on that custom decal front, there will be some new custom options coming from Zen very soon...


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## fueledbymetal (Sep 24, 2007)

I've had mine for well over a year and used them primarily on my training/sloppy weather bike. Everything still true & smooth. My only copaint is that the rim strip that came with them is rubbisha nd resulted in 4 flats in my first two rides. I swapped the rim strips out and haven't had any problems since. Definitely money well spent.


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## arumi (Nov 13, 2011)

*Blackset wheels*

I have about 2000 miles on mine and the are still perfect
never a wobble or loose spoke, and much firmer then the low end shimano RS10
significantly stiffer and lighter

have not owned many sets of wheels

$329 brand spanking new including shipping

how can you beat that ?


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## nsk1 (Feb 22, 2012)

was reading through this hoping someone would mention their weight....


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

nsk1 said:


> was reading through this hoping someone would mention their weight....


While the wheelset weight maybe under 1500 grams keep in mind the rims are "approximately 383g" way ligher than most rims on the market and especially pre-built factory wheels. So the majority of the weight is in the spokes and hubs.


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## nsk1 (Feb 22, 2012)

cmg said:


> While the wheelset weight maybe under 1500 grams keep in mind the rims are "approximately 383g" way ligher than most rims on the market and especially pre-built factory wheels. So the majority of the weight is in the spokes and hubs.


i ment the riders weight. how much have these wheels comfortably taken without problems was what i was after.


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## jpz (Jan 19, 2007)

I've had these same wheels for about a year now, I've put almost 5k miles on them. I weight about 175. All last season, they were my everyday wheels. I don't race but do fast group rides 20-23 mph, long distance ride & everything in between. They have become my favorites all time wheels (and I'm going back to the 80's)

JimPz


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