# Straight or butted aero spokes for 200lb rider



## sandwichnp (Feb 12, 2015)

I'm looking at a set of yoeleo carbon clinchers, they have a disc brake wheelset that would go great on my bike. I have the option of cheaper CN 494 aero spokes, or CN Aero 424s. The 424s are supposedly similar to sapims X-ray and the 494s are closer to DT new aero in terms of specs at least. Which spoke? Are the 100g and butting profile better for a ~200lb rider, or should I save the money and just go straight?


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

I don't think any of those are straight gauge. They may be straight (no elbow) spokes. In which case they are theoretically less likely to break but will be more difficult to find replacements for if they do. I would not use straight gauge on a road bike wheel.

I had to search for those CN spokes and found some threads about them on another forum. Personally I'd avoid them and get Sapim (or Wheelsmith or DT) if possible.
I don't have experience with spokes with thinner center sections than CXrays. Those seem thin enough when building- they wind up a lot- that I'd be leery of thinner spokes, at least on the DS on the rear.


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## sandwichnp (Feb 12, 2015)

They are normal j bends. The 424s have virtually the same specs as the x rays, 0.9x2.2 center section, 2.0 ends. I doubt the composition and therefore strength is the same though. The 494s are beefier, 1.2x3 in the middle.

i would prefer name brand spokes, but there's a 65$ upcharge on the x rays, and I'm trying to save money where possible.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

sandwichnp said:


> i would prefer name brand spokes, but there's a 65$ upcharge on the x rays, and I'm trying to save money where possible.


Two points:

Butted spokes build a better wheel than straight gauge and are more durable.

"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweet taste of a low price is gone."


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

sandwichnp said:


> i would prefer name brand spokes, but there's a 65$ upcharge on the x rays, and I'm trying to save money where possible.


The choice in priorities is then between money saving and spokes of a known quality.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

sandwichnp said:


> I'm looking at a set of yoeleo carbon clinchers, they have a disc brake wheelset that would go great on my bike. I have the option of cheaper CN 494 aero spokes, or CN Aero 424s. The 424s are supposedly similar to sapims X-ray and the 494s are closer to DT new aero in terms of specs at least. Which spoke? Are the 100g and butting profile better for a ~200lb rider, or should I save the money and just go straight?


I haven't used them so no first hand experience. Have talked to people who have used them and been told that CN/MAC are generally ok. I am told there were more pronounced quality differences with the Chinese sourced nipples than with the Chinese spokes. Whether or not all of their production runs see the same QC is a concern but if the price is right, it's a choice you need to make which, in a sense, you have already made going with Yoeleo.

The 424 are 20 ga and the 494 19 ga, rest is equal. You didnt indicate the rim depth or the number of spokes. For a mid depth rim like 50mm and lower spoke count like 20f/24r, I would stay with the heavier bladed butted spokes if it was me. I would not use straight gauge spokes for any wheel. The other thing I would do is consider matching the rigidity of the rim with the capability of the spokes to keep the rim in place and avoid rubbing the pads when higher loads are applied. This is more pronounced with the carbon rims than aluminum because the former tend to move laterally at the same plane across the wheel surface instead of tacoing at the point of contact.
A way to keep lateral movement at check is to use heavier spokes or increase the number of the lighter spokes. For what you are describing and for a general purpose wheel, I would consider doing 28 494 spokes on the rear for your 200 lbs, specially if you are capable of higher wattage.


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## sandwichnp (Feb 12, 2015)

Thanks for the feedback, all.

The rims I'm looking at are 50mm, 25mm wide, 24 spokes was my first choice. The hubs are novatec which seem to have decent reviews at least for road bikes. I won't be racing these on crits or anything like that, mostly rec riding but I might try racing this year, possibly a tri as I've always wanted to do one. Tires will be 25 or possibly 28s.

My original intention was to run the 494s, as I've read a lot of complaints about the alloy nips seizing on the spokes, so cutting them and replacing in a few years with a lighter spoke setup seemed practical if need be....but $70 is cheap insurance to have top quality brand name spokes. I know cx ray spokes have been around for a long time with rave reviews.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

Getting the wheels rebuilt with new spokes would cost about $120-150 per wheel here in NorCal. I'd spend the extra $70 for CXrays. 

Another option if they will do it is to use Sapim Lasers or Race spokes. Those cost about 1/3 what CXrays cost (at retail). And the aero difference while there is small. CXrays are Lasers with a flattened center section.


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## JimP (Dec 18, 2001)

I can understand CX or CXrays for the front wheel but I belive the best Sapim spoke for the rear wheel is thier Race spoke. There is little advantage to using an aero spoke on the rear. I prefer a 28 hole laced 3x both sides with the Sapim Race or DT Swiss Comp spoke on the rear.


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## changingleaf (Aug 20, 2009)

CX-Ray spokes are a known high quality spoke and a better option.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

T


JimP said:


> I can understand CX or CXrays for the front wheel but I belive the best Sapim spoke for the rear wheel is thier Race spoke. *There is little advantage to using an aero spoke on the rear.* I prefer a 28 hole laced 3x both sides with the Sapim Race or DT Swiss Comp spoke on the rear.


That's right. There is even little advantage using an aero spoke on the front. Watt for watt latex tubes save more watts but don't look as "fast" and what good is a wheel if it doesn't look fast?


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## sandwichnp (Feb 12, 2015)

Not really here to debate aero spoke properties...

my options are cn 494, cn 424, pillar 1420, and cx ray. Those are all aero, so those are my options. Just trying to decide which is going to make the most robust wheel at 24 spokes, although now you've got me wondering if I should up the spoke count.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

sandwichnp said:


> Not really here to debate aero spoke properties...
> 
> my options are cn 494, cn 424, pillar 1420, and cx ray. Those are all aero, so those are my options. Just trying to decide which is going to make the most robust wheel at 24 spokes, although now you've got me wondering if I should up the spoke count.


Didn't mean to confuse you. I have given you my suggestions on this a few posts earlier. Again, I would use the 494s over the 424s for their added strength to hold your 200 lbs and I would use the cn/mac over Sapim for the simple reason that these are the spokes these people are lacing the vast bulk of their wheels with so their processes, tools, etc are most propably better tuned for these spokes than the cx-rays. I believe there is more to be gained from better quality build (due to familiarization with components?) than from the anticipated better quality of the Sapim. The only complaints I have heard for the 494s and 424s is the rough cut of the first thread which needs to be filed down.

I dont know if Yeoleo uses any thread lubricant but i suspect a lot of the stories we hear about seized spokes-nipples are because of lack of lubricant. This would be more important for the longevity of the wheel over any spoke of any make.

Just my thoughts.......use as you see fit.


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## sandwichnp (Feb 12, 2015)

Thank you!

I'm not a talented wheel builder but I've built a few of my own. My instinct was to get the 24/494s and should they seize, I have the ability to replace them if I have to...but my guess is the seized spokes come from the ebay specials and not the "brand names".

I appreciate your help so far. Do you think I'd be OK with 24 494s, or should I bump up to the 28h wheelset? They will do a 24/28h if I request it.


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## dcgriz (Feb 13, 2011)

If the wheel is to be exclusively used for racing and you believe you are in a position within your category that every watt saved counts then I would go with 24 spokes knowing that I sacrificed durability for added performance.

If the wheel is to be a general purpose racing/training wheel then I would definitely go with 28 spokes for the added durability.


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## sandwichnp (Feb 12, 2015)

thank you!


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