# External Bottom Bracket Bearings, why not on spec sheets?



## ben8jam (Apr 23, 2010)

So i'm totally new to this, but have been in market for a road bike. Coming from a mountain bike setup.

I am looking at the Specialized Allez Elite and Trek 2.1 - i was informed that these have external bearings on the bottom bracket (i think that's what it's called) which i guess are alot better - i have been looking at spec sheets online, and wondering why they don't list them (or maybe they do, and i'm just missing it) - i looked at 2009 2.1 today, and it didnt have the external bearings - and just trying to point that out to the seller 

any help?

Thanks


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ben8jam said:


> So i'm totally new to this, but have been in market for a road bike. Coming from a mountain bike setup.
> 
> I am looking at the Specialized Allez Elite and Trek 2.1 - i was informed that these have external bearings on the bottom bracket (i think that's what it's called) which i guess are alot better - i have been looking at spec sheets online, and wondering why they don't list them (or maybe they do, and i'm just missing it) - i looked at 2009 2.1 today, and it didnt have the external bearings - and just trying to point that out to the seller
> 
> ...


The Allez is OEM'd with a Shimano FC-R600 (Hollowtech ll) crankset and compatible BB, which as you say, uses external bearings. The '09 Trek 2.1 was OEM'd with an FSA Gossamer crankset and Mega Exo BB (also external bearings), so I don't know why the bike you looked at didn't have them, unless the seller swapped OEM parts out at some point.


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## ben8jam (Apr 23, 2010)

Thank you! That is odd, b/c the bike (2009 2.1) was in near perfect condition as he didn't ride it much, but when I checked, it didn't have those little cartridges that i had seen on the allez and 2010 2.1 - weird..


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ben8jam said:


> Thank you! That is odd, b/c the bike (2009 2.1) was in near perfect condition as he didn't ride it much, but when I checked, it didn't have those little cartridges that i had seen on the allez and 2010 2.1 - weird..


Could be a number of reasons, but these are the types of things to be aware of when buying used. 

If you have the option of doing so, I suggest working with a reputable LBS, getting sizing/ fitting assistance and a bike that's built to the manufacturers specs.


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## ben8jam (Apr 23, 2010)

Yes, I would love to buy new but it's a tad out of budget. I might have been looking at the bottom bracket wrong, the bike did seem to be in near perfect condition, I have requested a photo in the 'general forum'. Maybe someone with a 2.1 can snap a shot 

My local shop is selling the 2010 Allez Elite for $1k right now. Which i guess is a great deal. Just a little beyond what I can afford. Especially, if i need some extra cash for all the little extra things


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## andulong (Nov 23, 2006)

FYI...sometimes components are not as listed in the spec sheets...seems the manufacturer has the legal right to substitute as necessary. I have seen this in shops as well.


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## ben8jam (Apr 23, 2010)

So I found a photo of a 2009 online (finding one that wasn't just a profile shot was really hard actually) - and if you look at the bottom bracket, you can just make out that it doesn't have those little, um i don't even know what to call them. Those things the woman at the shop pointed out (the external cover bearing things)... 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eternal-sojourn/3275121533/sizes/o/in/set-72157613712837975/

So they are there? They are just housed inside the frame? Compare to this 2010 photo

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/4219422035/sizes/l/

?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ben8jam said:


> So I found a photo of a 2009 online (finding one that wasn't just a profile shot was really hard actually) - and if you look at the bottom bracket, you can just make out that it doesn't have those little, um i don't even know what to call them. Those things the woman at the shop pointed out (the external cover bearing things)...
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/eternal-sojourn/3275121533/sizes/o/in/set-72157613712837975/
> 
> ...


I can't tell from the first pic. My eyes just aren't that good.  

The second pic clearly shows a BB with external bearings.

Just a FYI about others posting pics. That's all well and good, but it still won't confirm how the bike you're interested in is equipped. If you have a camera, take a pic of it and post it. And as andulong mentions there's that phrase "specifications subject to change without notice".

$1,000 is a good price for the Elite, but (assuming the Allez's geo works for you) at $850 minus discount the Sport saves you about $300. Granted, it's equipped with Sora shifters so if you ride in the drops isn't so convenient - and drops to 9 spd, but the latter is a non-issue, IMO. And there are other brands/ models available as well.

EDIT: Just a BTW, but IMO this issue alone isn't worth pulling the plug on a bike that fits (you, your needs and your budget). Given the choice, external BB's are an improvement over the previous generation, but it's highly doubtful you'd notice in real world riding.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

ben8jam said:


> i looked at 2009 2.1 today, and it didnt have the external bearings - and just trying to point that out to the seller


The 2009 Trek 2.1 didn't have an external bottom bracket (BB). It came with a crank that can only be attached to a so-called cartridge BB. The 2010 Trek 2.1 came with a different crank. That different crank is designed to run on an external BB.

As said by PJ352, the so-called advantages of an external BB over a cartridge BB are slight and, in spite of what you read and hear, not noticeable out on the road. If the bike is a good deal and you absolutely have to have that external BB, just replace the old crank with one that runs on an external BB. If you're smart, you'll wait until you wear the old crank and/or BB out.


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## ben8jam (Apr 23, 2010)

yeh, so far I have relly only looked at trek/spec because they are the easiest to find and seem to have the largest review base. i road both yesterday and honestly it was hard to tell a difference, or even what i was supposed to feel. the Spec had the handle bars at slightly higher angle then the trek, so it felt a little more comfortable - i need to go back and have them adjust both bikes, i see why this process takes the time it does.

check out these pics from a board member (i've only posted a few topics and amazed how helpful everyone is) - they look the same as what i saw yesterday (yeh, should have brought a camera, i'm not so good at the used buying thing)

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=2743218


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## ben8jam (Apr 23, 2010)

thanks for that - i think at this point, i wouldn't even feel the diff b/t the external BB and non-external - however, it helps play into the bartering for the used bike...


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Here's a photo of a bike with an external bottom bracket. The "external" refers to the fact that the bearings are inside the (here silver-colored) cups sticking out away from the frame. A bike with a cartridge bottom bracket would not have those cups sticking out.

Keep in mind that any one frame can be built-up with either a cartridge bottom bracket and matching crank or an external bottom bracket and matching crank. But the cranks cannot be interchanged, they are designed for either one or the other.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

wim said:


> *The 2009 Trek 2.1 didn't have an external bottom bracket (BB). It came with a crank that can only be attached to a so-called cartridge BB. *The 2010 Trek 2.1 came with a different crank. That different crank is designed to run on an external BB.
> 
> As said by PJ352, the so-called advantages of an external BB over a cartridge BB are slight and, in spite of what you read and hear, not noticeable out on the road. If the bike is a good deal and you absolutely have to have that external BB, just replace the old crank with one that runs on an external BB. If you're smart, you'll wait until you wear the old crank and/or BB out.


Not doubting you, wim but the specs on both Bikepedia and Trek's websites list FSA Gossamer cranks which FSA's website specs with the Megaexo BB (external bearings).  
http://www.fullspeedahead.com/fly.aspx?taxid=53&layout=product
Click on Gossamer Compact once there.

And here's a CL ad:
http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/bik/1697665868.html


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

PJ352 said:


> Not doubting you, wim


No, it's a good thing to doubt me here! I looked at what is supposed to be a 2009 2.1—perhaps it was a 2008?

What makes this more confusing (especially to ben8jam, I suppose) is that the supposed 2009 2.1 in the link in post #10 doesn't have an exterior BB either. I think the confusion could come from the fact that it's not always easy to define "model year" in the bicycle industry, given that the whole concept of annual changes is all about marketing and not really engineering, and running changes are common.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

wim said:


> No, it's a good thing to doubt me here! I looked at what is supposed to be a 2009 2.1—perhaps it was a 2008?
> 
> What makes this more confusing (especially to ben8jam, I suppose) is that the supposed 2009 2.1 in the link in post #10 doesn't have an exterior BB either. I think the confusion could come from the fact that it's not always easy to define "model year" in the bicycle industry, given that the whole concept of annual changes is all about marketing and not really engineering, and running changes are common.


I agree. I would attribute this to either pics of pre '09 bikes or (as you say) running changes.

I'm wondering now if the OP's LBS bike isn't a pre '09 as well, but as you and I have stated, none of this is a show stopper. It does, however make for interesting bike trivia conversation.


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## ziscwg (Apr 19, 2010)

If it's external and wears out, like they seem to do.

He just has to put a Chris King BB in there and it's the last one he'll have to do. It will probably out last the bike.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

ziscwg said:


> *If it's external and wears out, like they seem to do.*
> 
> He just has to put a Chris King BB in there and it's the last one he'll have to do. It will probably out last the bike.


IME wear is dictated more by the design/ quality than the type, and (generally) FSA's are prone to more problems than Shimano's. My OEM DA crankset/ BB from 1990 is still going strong. But yes, King products usually just get moved to a new frame when the time comes.


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## dysfunction (Apr 2, 2010)

Yea, you can press out the bearings and replace them on Shimanos (even though they're not designed to). I've had problems on my mountain bike, but I expect more bearing issues on that anyway, and went to a Hope BB, which like the King is designed to service easily. Even so, external BB's are in general pretty cheap anyway, and they're pretty easy to work on.. so I don't mind them.


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