# Doping with "roids" ruined my season



## One Speed (Nov 22, 2012)

Just thought I would share how I attempted to dope in 2012 and ended up getting what I deserved. 

Last winter I put in the biggest base that I had ever put in and came into the spring in the best shape of my life. I did really well in some early marathon XC races and even managed to win one during the build-up to my A race for the spring. To say the least I was very pleased with how my year was going but I figured I was about as fast as I was gonna get for the remainder of the year. There was still a gap between myself and some of the fastest veterans in our series so I decided to try and give myself a little boost to try and help close that gap. I work with a few bodybuilder types who I knew were using steroids and asked if they knew of anything that could maybe boost endurance while not adding much in the way of weight. One of the guys talked to his supplier and said that a steroid called Equipoise would probably be a good choice. I read up on it and it is supposed to boost RBC's (not to the extent of EPO) and is not supposed to add water weight. Well after 3 weeks on this stuff my desire to do ANYTHING was completely GONE! I did not want to ride my bike, go to work and had zero interest in sex. I was at the starting line of a race and all I could think was "I don't even want to be here". It was the worst race of my life. Not only did I not have the desire to compete but the Equipoise caused my lower back to pump up and it made it all but impossible to pedal (I read that lower back pumps are sometimes a side effect). I promptly quit taking this stuff but it took nearly 5 months before I felt like my old self again. Lesson learned, right? Wrong. Told one of the guys at work about my experience and he talked me into trying some testosterone. He said the reason I felt so crappy was because the Equipoise caused my natural testosterone production to bottom out. I tried the testosterone and I felt great. I could do push-ups and crunches like there was no tomorrow. However, when on the bike my legs would pump up so big and tight I felt as though I could hardly pedal. I ended up putting on 15 pounds of muscle in about an 8 week period. I already wasn't the greatest of climbers but after that I was even worse. 

Happy to say that I am completely DONE with ANY type of doping and I hope sharing my experience may possibly help deter someone else from making the same stupid mistake.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

Is this a joke?


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

One Speed said:


> DOPER'S SUCK!


yes.............yes they do


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Roids require top notch expertise. LA and Ullrich were paying their trainers tens of thousands of Euros. Your bro-science buds may know what will work for them, but have no clue about cyclists.


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## kevhogaz (Jul 28, 2007)

kbiker3111 said:


> Is this a joke?


Join date, post count.....


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

kevhogaz said:


> Join date, post count.....


I didn't know you could post a new thread without 10 posts in the bank.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

spade2you said:


> I didn't know you could post without 10 posts in the bank.


Do you mean;
can't start a Thread without (10) posts in the bank?


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

metoou2 said:


> Do you mean;
> can't start a Thread without (10) posts in the bank?


In before the EDIT :lol:


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## One Speed (Nov 22, 2012)

Not at all a joke. I can't speak for the fact that I was able to start a new thread with my first post. I was surprised myself. I didn't want to use my original user ID because there are those that actually know who I am. Just a precaution.

While it may be a fact that LA and those guys had doctors instructing them I have been reading a lot on this forum about people complaining that a lot of masters racers are receiving testosterone therapy. While it may be against the rules I don't think the advantage is there that a lot of people have been lead to or would like to believe.


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## turbogrover (Jan 1, 2006)

Oh well, there's always next year.


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## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

One Speed said:


> While it may be a fact that LA and those guys had doctors instructing them I have been reading a lot on this forum about people complaining that a lot of masters racers are receiving testosterone therapy. While it may be against the rules I don't think the advantage is there that a lot of people have been lead to or would like to believe.


That is a dubious conclusion based on you not knowing what you were doing.


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## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)




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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

metoou2 said:


> Do you mean;
> can't start a Thread without (10) posts in the bank?


Yeah, made more sense in my head before I clicked it.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

spade2you said:


> Yeah, made more sense in my head before I clicked it.


Just havin fun. 
The one time you make a mental / typing slip some schmuck, (me) happens to be right there on top of your post. 

Don't review my list of posts. Pretty sure 50% of my posts have been edited. I tend to slam a post into the keyboard, hit the 'submit button' and then review what I typed. Not the best method to be sure.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

So you are a KNOWN forum member, (known to some anyway) and you are posting under an alias.

Oh, and you're a self confessed DOPER. (almost forgot the best part)

Uh hum. And you feel that hiding behind an alias account will prevent the members who actually know you from identifying you.
Uh hum.

If any of that is indeed factual, this Thread might grow a pair of legs and really get movin. 

I'm thinking it might be best to bail before this train wreck hits the wall.


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## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

Mods, IP trace him and report him to USADA


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

What do you mean when you say " low back pumped up"? Swelled up with fluid?


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## Purt (Dec 23, 2010)

CabDoctor said:


> Mods, IP trace him and report him to USADA


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

One Speed said:


> Not at all a joke. I can't speak for the fact that I was able to start a new thread with my first post. I was surprised myself. I didn't want to use my original user ID because there are those that actually know who I am. Just a precaution.


Having multiple user accounts is likely against forum rules. I completely understand the desire to hide your identity, but every forum I know of has that rule in place for a reason.

That said, based on two decisions I've seen you admit to, rules just aren't your thing.


One Speed said:


> While it may be a fact that LA and those guys had doctors instructing them I have been reading a lot on this forum about people complaining that a lot of masters racers are receiving testosterone therapy. While it may be against the rules I don't think the advantage is there that a lot of people have been lead to or would like to believe.


There's a difference between what a "guy at the gym" might prescribe and what one of these "youth rejuvenation" doctors might prescribe, in terms of actual drugs and usage. Just reading the semi-literate and often dangerous advice of most gym-rats while researching vitamins and supplements was enough to tell me that they're probably not the best judges of what is and isn't effective endurance sports.

I get it. You were looking for a magic pill. Modern society is hard-wired that way, not that that's an excuse. To be honest, I've experimented with various legal, OTC supplements from "quality" vendors like GNC (hahahahaha....sorry), and found they hurt my performance far more than helped it. I've had violent reactions to beetroot juice. In just about every case, I found that I was far better off without them. That said, I always draw the line at what is illegal and/or prohibited by my racing organization. Even though I don't fall under USADA, I try to stay within their guidelines (except in cases of illness or as dictated by a legitimate doctor for injury). For me, its about my health and enjoyment of the sport. Doping would likely hurt both of those.

Congratulations- you're now a self-identified cautionary tale. Now you'll have to deal with that knowledge every time you line up. You're going to have to see the faces of all your competitors and know that you tried to cheat them in what is essentially a kids game.

That is, if you don't get found out first. 

I can't condemn you, because of my own idle thoughts about it in the past (I get it), but I wouldn't want to be in your shoes.


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## scottz123 (Nov 15, 2012)

There is so much advertising out there for "Doctor prescribed" testoserone / male enhancers, there must be a few people getting scripts - or they wouldn't be paying for advertising


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## jlandry (Jan 12, 2007)

scottz123 said:


> There is so much advertising out there for "Doctor prescribed" testoserone / *male enhancers*, there must be a few people getting scripts - or they wouldn't be paying for advertising


Imagine pedaling for 5 hours with a woody.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

jlandry said:


> Imagine pedaling for 5 hours with a woody.


Sounds like junior high.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

Well, for "natural male enhancement", check out:
GNC Pro Performance® AMP Endurance Vitapak® Program

One of the main engredients is Yohimbe Bark Extract, which is used for ED. Of course, they use a 451g dose, which that same wikipedia page would characterize as "dangerous" (over 100mg).


> The therapeutic index of yohimbine is quite low; the range between an effective dose and a dangerous dose is very narrow.[21] A typical dose for sexual dysfunction would be 15-30mg, whereas 100mg would be considered dangerous. This may also lead to the precipitation of panic disorder type reactions, heart attack, and possibly death.


...always read the label. I passed on this one.


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## Zipp0 (Aug 19, 2008)

CabDoctor said:


> Mods, IP trace him and report him to USADA


Doesn't work if he used TOR. Plus, the IP only tells you the computer he was using, not the identity of the user at the keyboard. AND to go any furhter than an IP would require a subpoena to the internet provider......


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Roids ruined his season. Yeah, HEM roids.


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## Bluenote (Oct 28, 2012)

Taking at face value that this is a real post and taking at face value that you are trying to be helpful.

What on Gods green earth compelled you to cheat at stupid local races? What is even the point? 

I've got a box of old medals stashed in my closet. The only thing that matters to me is that I earned them. When I was stacked against stronger, more experienced racers - sometimes I won, sometimes I lost, but I never backed down. 

I don't agree with pros doing, but I get why they do it. But the local stuff? That's just pathetic.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Hah. Even if this is a trolljob there's some truth. I bet the majority of amateur dopers do it wrong on their first try.


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## thirstyman (May 6, 2007)

low life.


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## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

Glad your experience wasn't worse than it was.
Racing in Masters for about 3 years I've always heard steroids, testosterone, and those asthma inhalers are the big 3.
Haven't used the first 2 but I've used the inhaler before, for dr. prescribed EIA. Didn't enjoy my HR being raised so much.
I don't think anything beats the feeling of a "No-chain" day due to a proper taper.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

scottz123 said:


> There is so much advertising out there for "Doctor prescribed" testoserone / male enhancers, there must be a few people getting scripts - or they wouldn't be paying for advertising


Doctor shopping for HRT is so common it is surprising guys still buy crap from "some guy in the gym". 
Guys sell stuff at my gym. One buyer even showed it to me, glass ampules with Cyrillic markings. I said "That could be anything...from water to estrogen, and you're going to inject it?"
At least if you get a prescription your stuff will be what it claims to be.


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

meh...


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Give us details!

What was your dosing protocol? (dose, frequency, injection site)

Were you injecting yourself? Who bought the syringes? What gauge? 

Did you have changes in mood? Did those close to you suspect anything? Did you confide in anyone else who rides?


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## cyclesport45 (Dec 10, 2007)

Stoopid thread.


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## cmdrpiffle (Mar 28, 2006)

So now there is somehow "thread cred" for writing on the doping forum how you "doped", but don't anymore?
So a question to the OP.... is the desired effect that people on a forum now 'recognize' your importance because, well because, if you're good enough to 'dope', then you're obviously some sort of pro/master/cycling phenom, and maybe someone will 'ask' you about your palmares?

Really?

asshat


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

I don't think the guy is looking for recognition -- he said that he's posting with an alternate account.

I also question the legitimacy of the thread -- but taking it at face value and not worrying about legitimacy (what difference does it make if everything personal you read on here is ficticious, really?) prevents me from getting emotionally involved. Since I don't care too much I have no reason to call people names, like "asshat"


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Local Hero said:


> I don't think the guy is looking for recognition -- he said that he's posting with an alternate account.
> 
> I also question the legitimacy of the thread -- but taking it at face value and not worrying about legitimacy (what difference does it make if everything personal you read on here is ficticious, really?) prevents me from getting emotionally involved. Since I don't care too much I have no reason to call people names, like "asshat"


Perhaps the OP is just messing with us, especially how angry the forum seems to get lately. 

See him trollin'. We hatin'.


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## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

Armstrong talked everyone on Motorola who wanted to ride the 1995 TdF to be on EPO. Stephen Swart bought a supply for himself but says it did not seem work for him. There is an example of a rider using something that is really effective but not getting results from it because he did not know what he was doing.


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## One Speed (Nov 22, 2012)

I'm gonna attempt to respond to several of the comments/questions that have been posted as well as maybe give a little more insight into why I went down that road. Also, I fully expected the off the hip comment/remarks from some of you. That's fine, I'm not trying to justify my actions. As for USADA, I couldn't care less if they knocked on my door. I haven't raced a "sanctioned" event in nearly 5yrs.

The reason I decided to try it? A lot of it was to just satisfy my curiosity. I wanted to see if it was gonna transform me by leaps and bounds. It didn't. The Equipoise that I tried gave me nothing but negative effects. In all fairness I didn't stay on it long enough to reap any physical rewards. It is marketed as a drug that is good for endurance athletes but it also takes a longer period to kick in. After 3 weeks I just couldn't deal with how it was seemingly bringing me down so I got off of it. I gathered a lot of information off of bodybuilding forums and those guys all STRONGLY recommended using testosterone with the equipoise to counter my natural testosterone being shut down. Guess I should have listened? The testosterone that I ended up using made me physically strong as hell but like I stated it made my legs get pumped to the point that it was hard pedal efficiently. Testosterone is known to make one hold a lot of water retention as well as causing one's natural test to bottom out. I took another drug named Arimidex that is an anti-estrogen "which keeps the water off" and it also causes the testicles to keep producing natural testosterone, so in effect I was able to keep those side effects from the test at bay. I can see where someone could use testosterone in the offseason to build up a lot of strength and then be able to retain a lot of that strength into/throughout the season. I personally don't care to go through the trouble of it all again though. I honestly feel much better being back natural.

To those who say that I just didn't know how to use the stuff.(?) Its not rocket science! There is tons of legitimate info on all of this stuff on the web and "no" im not talking about from steroid forums but from medical trials/studies. There are also reputable overseas pharmacies that carry reputable/tested brands/sources. Most of the info that I've read about concerning pro cyclists using testosterone has been about avoiding detection and using it mostly for recovery purposes. I was attempting to use it for on the bike strength building purposes. As for dosages, I basically took what was recommended for a first time recreational user (for muscle building) and cut that in half. Mostly in an attempt to keep weight off. As for info on the actual dosages I took, I'd rather not go into that. My purpose for even starting this thread was "really" to try and deter someone from trying the stuff to begin with. As I said in my original post, I was having "by far" my best season ever and totally derailed it by messing with this stuff. I'm just glad to be back to my old self again and training with what "I know" works. Hard work and proper nutrition.

I would also like to address those who sort of belittle "local amateur racing" by saying it shouldn't be taken that seriously. I like probably the majority of people on this forum spend thousand(s) of dollars preparing for these local races! I spend a lot of money on my bike, clothing, travel expenses, food. I spend on average 15hrs a week "every" week throughout the entire year in all types of inclement weather preparing for these races. Sorry if I tend to take it a little seriously. IMO, someone who does all of that and then says they don't take it seriously are likely a little crazy! Haha! 

Ultimately, I would just like to say, if you or someone you know is considering trying to gain a performance advantage through using steroids, "don't do it!" You have everything you need just by training and eating properly.


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## thirstyman (May 6, 2007)

if you had courage and if you had any respect for your competitors you would admit this publicly and withdraw from racing for trying to cheat. using lack of usada sanctioning as a technicality shows you don't think you cheated anyone. We don't need folks like you as competitors.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Again I can not find nor remember where I read an interesting piece by a amateur racer who wanted to see the affects of PED's on his training. This was years ago but IIRC he took took EPO, testosterone and HGH. Basically, he said his ability to recover and hit it hard day after day was night and day compared to the clean version of himself. Nothing new but to read a total joe's real world perspective hit home a bit more than reading about the pro's.

On a somewhat related note, I ran into a dude at the shop and he asked me what supps I took. I told him whole foods, took some vit C and fish oil. That's about it. I asked what he took and he rattled off about 8 different Hammer products: mito caps this and endurance powder that. Good lord! Talk about spending cash when you can just focus on riding smarter and eating cleaner, etc...Oh well, just not my thing. Maybe they really help him? I waste my money on wheels for some reason and have this sick passion for light weight crap.


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## carlosflanders (Nov 23, 2008)

I think you're referring to an old article in outside magazine. Not sure if the guy ever raced though. 

Drug Test | Fitness - Health and Fitness Advice | OutsideOnline.com


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

woodys737 said:


> Again I can not find nor remember where I read an interesting piece by a amateur racer who wanted to see the affects of PED's on his training. This was years ago but IIRC he took took EPO, testosterone and HGH. Basically, he said his ability to recover and hit it hard day after day was night and day compared to the clean version of himself. Nothing new but to read a total joe's real world perspective hit home a bit more than reading about the pro's.
> 
> On a somewhat related note, I ran into a dude at the shop and he asked me what supps I took. I told him whole foods, took some vit C and fish oil. That's about it. I asked what he took and *he rattled off about 8 different Hammer products: mito caps this and endurance powder that.* Good lord! Talk about spending cash when you can just focus on riding smarter and eating cleaner, etc...Oh well, just not my thing. Maybe they really help him? I waste my money on wheels for some reason and have this sick passion for light weight crap.


A few of my teammates are like this. They are also the ones obsessed with equipment (having the latest aero/wide wheels), knowing the mileage of every local route by heart, etc. I chalk it up to being eager. I ride around with a few pieces of fruit stuffed in my jersey. No GPS or gizmos. 

lol @ this thread though. I mean, what's the point? A warning against drug use? Were there any guys who wanted to try drugs who are convinced that it is a bad idea? We don't need to hear that drugs don't work. It's a lie, they work. There's no need for fake reasons to avoid cheating. The fact that it is cheating is sufficient.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Doping but doesn't even race. LOL.


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## bruce_wayne (Apr 30, 2010)

Props, OP for giving your experience from the amateur perspective. As woody suggested, with all the clamor in the pro ranks re: doping, it's interesting to hear of the trickle down effect it has on our local race scene. At this point in time, I'd rather read an average joe's anonymous account of his attempts at doping (pros and cons). OTOH, if it's discovered that cheating in the amateur ranks is more widespread and out of control than anyone imagined, call in the Internet Police!


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## moskowe (Mar 14, 2011)

The referenced OutsideOnline magazine is the proper one. The guy did race, and in his defense he did it as a journalist, because he was initially trying to find amateur cyclists who doped but everyone he talked to was too scared to go on record in a newspaper, so he did it himself. He said in the longer run it had not only affected his ability to hit hard day after day, but within each race it allowed him to subtly save energy, in a way he didn't necessarily notice (ie lots of suffering still) but allowing him to keep up with the best. It's a great read.

What I can't believe (trolling aside) is how the OP could be stupid enough to go down the doping route but to use steroids. Seriously ? You just don't use steroids for cycling, there is a ton of available data out there and it all says testosterone and EPO are the way to go. Not only are you a cheat, but you're a dumb cheat. 
Also, as spade said, "doping but doesn't even race."
I call troll.


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

upstateSC-rider said:


> Glad your experience wasn't worse than it was.
> Racing in Masters for about 3 years I've always heard steroids, testosterone, and those *asthma inhalers* are the big 3.
> Haven't used the first 2 but I've used the inhaler before, for dr. prescribed EIA. Didn't enjoy my HR being raised so much.
> I don't think anything beats the feeling of a "No-chain" day due to a proper taper.


I hate that people use albuterol to try to cheat because I always feel like people are looking at me when I pretreat for a race. I've had Asthma since I was 2 years old and I can tell you with confidence that the doses of albuterol you get from two puffs before exercise doesn't enhance your performance. Conversely, an Asthma attack during exercise can significantly impair your performance. So, people using the inhaler to improve their racing really bothers me.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

carlosflanders said:


> I think you're referring to an old article in outside magazine. Not sure if the guy ever raced though.
> 
> Drug Test | Fitness - Health and Fitness Advice | OutsideOnline.com


That's the one. Good find. Thanks!



moskowe said:


> *The referenced OutsideOnline magazine is the proper one. The guy did race, and in his defense he did it as a journalist, because he was initially trying to find amateur cyclists who doped but everyone he talked to was too scared to go on record in a newspaper, so he did it himself.* He said in the longer run it had not only affected his ability to hit hard day after day, but within each race it allowed him to subtly save energy, in a way he didn't necessarily notice (ie lots of suffering still) but allowing him to keep up with the best. It's a great read.
> 
> What I can't believe (trolling aside) is how the OP could be stupid enough to go down the doping route but to use steroids. Seriously ? You just don't use steroids for cycling, there is a ton of available data out there and it all says testosterone and EPO are the way to go. Not only are you a cheat, but you're a dumb cheat.
> Also, as spade said, "doping but doesn't even race."
> I call troll.


Which is what was so interesting to me. Finally someone cutting through the bs.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

On a side note, what _season_ is ruined if he's not even racing?? 



jspharmd said:


> I hate that people use albuterol to try to cheat because I always feel like people are looking at me when I pretreat for a race. I've had Asthma since I was 2 years old and I can tell you with confidence that the doses of albuterol you get from two puffs before exercise doesn't enhance your performance. Conversely, an Asthma attack during exercise can significantly impair your performance. So, people using the inhaler to improve their racing really bothers me.


I haven't bothered to get a TUE for albuterol since I figure I shouldn't be racing if I'm having asthma problems. (Knocking on wood) I use it so infrequently that I'm not sure if it's worth the paperwork. 

Since we're both pharmacists and sounds like we both have asthma, I wonder if prior use has dulled the possibility for performance enhancement. During my worst years of asthma, which were from 7th grade to freshman year of high school, I seemed to be developing a tolerance and wasn't getting much benefit during attacks. This was a little alarming since there weren't any effective alternatives to albuterol at the time. 

I would think that our chronic use of it in the past would make any performance gains minimal at best. I'm sure I could test this out in my free time, but I'm much happier avoiding albuterol as much as possible. Even as a lowly racer, I'm forever grateful that I can finish races and occasionally do well. As a child, I wouldn't have thought it were possible.


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## scottzj (Oct 4, 2010)

jspharmd said:


> I hate that people use albuterol to try to cheat because I always feel like people are looking at me when I pretreat for a race. I've had Asthma since I was 2 years old and I can tell you with confidence that the doses of albuterol you get from two puffs before exercise doesn't enhance your performance. Conversely, an Asthma attack during exercise can significantly impair your performance. So, people using the inhaler to improve their racing really bothers me.



I have had Asthma all my life and never know when or where it will hit. There are all sorts of things that seem to trigger it but never the same thing all the time. I keep an inhaler with me at all times Including races. I have Albuterol and Xopenex that I use when needed. I also have breathing treatments that I can do at home when needed. So I hope and pray that the day comes where I will no longer need these devices to live. Its sad that there are others that use them when not needed. Knock on wood.......I have only used my inhaler one time during the race season last year and it didnt "help" me to win lol, in fact I think I was around 17 of a 58 person field. However, I did live to see tomorrow.


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## rydbyk (Feb 17, 2010)

OP..

You attempted to cheat other clean athletes out of a podium by taking PEDs. Cool story bro. Oh wait, no, it's all good becasue you pedaled your bike 15 hours a week. Totally justified

I would give you some props if you didn't hide behind a fake username, but...


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

spade2you said:


> On a side note, what _season_ is ruined if he's not even racing??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


From what I've been able to gather online, you can use albuterol without a TUE as long as you stay within WADA's dosage limits. WADA lists the exemption for salbutamol, and from what I've gathered, salbutamol and albuterol are generic names for the same substance. WADA uses the International Nonpropritary Name of salbutamol. Albuterol is the substance's nomenclature under the United States Adopted Names system. It's marketed generically as albuterol in the US and as salbutamol overseas. It's also known under a trade name of Ventolin.

Here's the latest info from Wiki on its status under WADA:

Doping

Clinical studies show no compelling evidence that salbutamol and other β2-agonists can increase performance in healthy athletes.[8] In spite of this, salbutamol required "a declaration of Use in accordance with the International Standard for Therapeutic Use Exemptions" under the 2010 WADA prohibited list. This requirement was relaxed when the 2011 list was published to permit the use of "salbutamol (maximum 1600 micrograms over 24 hours) and salmeterol when taken by inhalation in accordance with the manufacturers’ recommended therapeutic regimen." [9] [10]

According to two small and limited studies, performed on eight and 16 subjects, respectively, salbutamol increases the performance even for a person without asthma.[11][12][13]


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

spade2you said:


> On a side note, what _season_ is ruined if he's not even racing??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No doubt that frequent use results in downregulation of beta receptors. Mine was worst in early childhood, but still bad through much of high school. I too noticed a decreased effect of albuterol as I used it more and more, sometimes more frequently than indicated (Q4H PRN).

Following high school, it improved. The theory that makes the most sense about decreased symptoms in adulthood relates to the diameter of the bronchioles (as they grow, the diameter increases, the wheezing decreases and airflow improves). My poor control probably resulted from my mother's disapproval of steroids, even inhaled. 

In adulthood, I chose to start inhaled steroids and it has made all the difference. No attacks and only chest tightness when I'm sick. I still pretreat with albuterol before a race to avoid any issues (EIA standard therapy).


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## JustTooBig (Aug 11, 2005)

I call BS.

Equipoise, a testosterone derivative, has been used for 30+ yrs for bodybuilders to add lean muscle mass (commonly used as a replacement for 'Deca'), and is not used for "recovery" as the OP claims. It can enhance RBC production, but not nearly like other PED's can. 60seconds of research online would have told him that. To remain willfully ignorant of basic facts about the drug simply suspends belief based on "I'm not convinced anyone is actually that stupid".

several 'details' simply don't align with the scientific record of doping with PED's, nor with my own experience of time spent in NCAA D1 athletics and the gym/fitness business. And I've heard some real doozies coming from roid-heads.... but usually, it's from someone denying they're using PED's, not the other way around.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

jspharmd said:


> No doubt that frequent use results in downregulation of beta receptors. Mine was worst in early childhood, but still bad through much of high school. I too noticed a decreased effect of albuterol as I used it more and more, sometimes more frequently than indicated (Q4H PRN).
> 
> Following high school, it improved. The theory that makes the most sense about decreased symptoms in adulthood relates to the diameter of the bronchioles (as they grow, the diameter increases, the wheezing decreases and airflow improves). My poor control probably resulted from my mother's disapproval of steroids, even inhaled.
> 
> In adulthood, I chose to start inhaled steroids and it has made all the difference. No attacks and only chest tightness when I'm sick. I still pretreat with albuterol before a race to avoid any issues (EIA standard therapy).


Could be. I didn't start inhaled steroids until freshman year since that's about when they were available. My pediatrician wasn't very up to date, which didn't help matters. Xopenex arrived in time since I wasn't getting much relief from albuterol at the time. After that, I finally had control. I was happy to be able to work out. Bummer I had to start from scratch. 

I don't really have much need to use albuterol before events. About my only triggers tend to be cats and when farmers plow everything in the fall.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

We should speculate wildly on One Speed's identity. 

I bet he's the same poster as AntiUSADA. Or Joe Papp.


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## One Speed (Nov 22, 2012)

rydbyk said:


> OP..
> 
> You attempted to cheat other clean athletes out of a podium by taking PEDs. Cool story bro. Oh wait, no, it's all good becasue you pedaled your bike 15 hours a week. Totally justified
> 
> I would give you some props if you didn't hide behind a fake username, but...


Who ever said I was trying to reel in other "clean athletes"? When guys in their mid-forties who have been racing for 20yrs "all of a sudden" are beating a pretty stacked field by 30minutes over the course of a 50 mile XC race that tends to make me question how clean they are. These guys have always been fast but the last couple of years they have been absolutely supercharged.

Just to note, I NEVER said that I wasn't racing. I said that I haven't raced a "sanctioned" race in 5 years. Meaning I haven't held a USA Cycling liscense or raced an event that required one.

As a "doping forum" this place is a joke. It's apparent very few want to really talk about doping but instead just want to see who tests positive next so that the stone throwing can begin from way atop their pedastools. Seems very few are interested in hearing of a true admission/account from an average joe but, whatever.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

One Speed said:


> As a "doping forum" this place is a joke. It's apparent very few want to really talk about doping but instead just want to see who tests positive next so that the stone throwing can begin from way atop their pedastools. Seems very few are interested in hearing of a true admission/account from an average joe but, whatever.


Sorry to burst your bubble, but this forum doesn't care about dopers who aren't Lance. Several no-name pros have been bused and nobody cared so much to even post a thread. Some might say that the pros are riding clean, but it would appear that the dopers have methods that evade the tests. 

Personally, I don't care a whole lot about someone doping who doesn't race. They're not my competition and not my problem. Kinda reminds me of the dudes at the gym who are obviously juicing and staring at themselves in the mirror the whole time.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

spade2you said:


> Sorry to burst your bubble, but this forum doesn't care about dopers who aren't Lance. Several no-name pros have been bused and nobody cared so much to even post a thread. Some might say that the pros are riding clean, but it would appear that the dopers have methods that evade the tests.
> 
> Personally, I don't care a whole lot about someone doping who doesn't race. They're not my competition and not my problem. Kinda reminds me of the dudes at the gym who are obviously juicing and staring at themselves in the mirror the whole time.


Yes but amateur racing is also onanism.


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## .je (Aug 25, 2012)

You must have been doping with the wrong droids, this one has done pretty well:















3PO, not EPO. _Those _are the droids you're looking for. :thumbsup:


.


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## One Speed (Nov 22, 2012)

JustTooBig said:


> I call BS.
> 
> Equipoise, a testosterone derivative, has been used for 30+ yrs for bodybuilders to add lean muscle mass (commonly used as a replacement for 'Deca'), and is not used for "recovery" as the OP claims. It can enhance RBC production, but not nearly like other PED's can. 60seconds of research online would have told him that. To remain willfully ignorant of basic facts about the drug simply suspends belief based on "I'm not convinced anyone is actually that stupid".
> 
> several 'details' simply don't align with the scientific record of doping with PED's, nor with my own experience of time spent in NCAA D1 athletics and the gym/fitness business. And I've heard some real doozies coming from roid-heads.... but usually, it's from someone denying they're using PED's, not the other way around.


Dude where in my original post did I say anything about Equipoise being used for recovery??? Yes there are PEDs that raise RBC's moreso than Equipoise but most of them carry significantly more side effects than EQ. EQ is actually very mild in that respect. As for muscle building, most bodybuilders steer clear of the stuff because it's not known to produce large gains. However the gains made on it are usually kept long term versus testosterone and other known bulking steroids. Oh, and EPO, is there ANYONE who isn't aware that it is the PED of choice for endurance athletes. I have access to it but that is a road I'm not willing to go down.

Such an impressive/enlightening/educated bunch of posters here on this forum! Lol


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

You said Equipoise made you feel lazy? Was it because it made you feel sick or did it make you lose focus?
Maybe it was a contaminated batch or something. I've never heard of that happening with any roids.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

.je said:


> You must have been doping with the wrong droids, this one has done pretty well:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Give this man a cigar!!! Rep'd! :thumbsup:


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

One Speed said:


> Such an impressive/enlightening/educated bunch of posters here on this forum! Lol


Hey, sorry if I busted your chops in this thread. Sorry for negatively repping you (your fake account). 

But you could not have expected an overwhelmingly positive response to what you wrote.


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## carlosflanders (Nov 23, 2008)

woodys737 said:


> That's the one. Good find. Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> Which is what was so interesting to me. Finally someone cutting through the bs.


I think the second reference is to Andrew Tilin and his book The Doper Next Door. That's recent and you can find an article about it in outside mag as well. I was trying to trace the much older article.

What's a pity is that the authors of either didn't quantify their performance by increased power level, blood values etc


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## moskowe (Mar 14, 2011)

So you had access to EPO and chose "not to go down that road" but chose to go down the steroids road instead. Riiiiiiiiiiight.
Definitely a troll.


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## One Speed (Nov 22, 2012)

moskowe said:


> So you had access to EPO and chose "not to go down that road" but chose to go down the steroids road instead. Riiiiiiiiiiight.
> Definitely a troll.


When was the last time you heard of someone using steroids and having a stroke or heart attack in their sleep? I'm not saying that it has never happened with someone using steroids but I have never heard of that happening. EPO on the other hand, I think we've all read about a number of cyclist having died in their sleep. There are A LOT of different steroids as well as testosterone blends out there and each has a list of it's own individual "possible" side effects as well as attributes. In my region of the country you would likely have a tough time getting a Rx for PEDs.

Both steroids and EPO are super easy to get and relatively inexpensive in most cases. All you have to do is go to a certain website belonging to an overseas pharmacy and place your order. You pay via Western Union or Moneygram and in 3 weeks the stuff will be in your mail box. Oh, and I don't need anyone to tell me how risky this could be. I'm well aware of that. However the gyms around here are packed with huge dudes who "from what I'm told" buy the majority of their stuff from one of two online pharmacies. I've never heard of or read in the paper about someone getting busted for it around here.

Most steroids "used in moderation" aren't any more dangerous than over the counter ibuprofen or Tylenol. That's not coming from some guy at a gym but from reputable medical sources.

Oh, and if I were a Troll, I would have started this thread "bragging" about doping and talking about how I kicked everyones asses in 2012.

I'm willing to bet that there are likely others on this forum who have considered using steroids in an effort to boost their performance. I'm simply sharing how my personal experiment went with the stuff. After all this IS a doping forum, right? 

And for those of you who are just casting stones and telling me that I don't know what I'm doing or don't know how to use the stuff. It's pretty apparent from some of your comments that virtually ALL of your knowledge on the use of the stuff came from the USADA report. Lol! It would appear that Lance and those guys were "for the most part" using testosterone to help "recovery/repair" their muscles after a hard training ride or race day. Hence the low dose patches and taking test orally "which most of the test taken with the olive oil will be destroyed in the digestive tract." I also find it somewhat comical how a lot of the comments made have taken something that I said and totally twisted it and put your spin on it to make it into something entirely different than what I said. Lol


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## cmdrpiffle (Mar 28, 2006)

The neg rep was from me


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

cmdrpiffle said:


> The neg rep was from me


Seriously. You take yourself *that* seriously? I mean, the guy doesn't even race.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

spade2you said:


> Seriously. You take yourself *that* seriously? I mean, the guy doesn't even race.


The guy most certainly *does* race. Non-sanctioned races are still races. Just because they're not USAC does not mean that they are not races. There are more than a few places in this country without USAC-sanctioned races, yet have active racing scenes.

How about this- _*would the OP have started this thread if the PEDs had worked for him?*_ Doubtful. My guess (based on his comments here) is with his initial justifications for "leveling the playing field", he would have kept his mouth shut and kept on doping for as long as it suited him. His only real expression of regret seems to be that it didn't work, not that I expect or require an apology from him. He made a conscious decision going in to cheat his fellow competitors, his chosen methods didn't work, and then he came forward with a story about how "doping ruined his season". He points to suspicious gains by other competitors as the reason for him to "up his game", which indicates only that he is an incompetent doper. How fortunate for the clean racers.

Sorry, my sympathy ends right about there.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Alaska Mike said:


> The guy most certainly *does* race. Non-sanctioned races are still races. Just because they're not USAC does not mean that they are not races. There are more than a few places in this country without USAC-sanctioned races, yet have active racing scenes.
> 
> How about this- _*would the OP have started this thread if the PEDs had worked for him?*_ Doubtful. My guess (based on his comments here) is with his initial justifications for "leveling the playing field", he would have kept his mouth shut and kept on doping for as long as it suited him. His only real expression of regret seems to be that it didn't work, not that I expect or require an apology from him. He made a conscious decision going in to cheat his fellow competitors, his chosen methods didn't work, and then he came forward with a story about how "doping ruined his season". He points to suspicious gains by other competitors as the reason for him to "up his game", which indicates only that he is an incompetent doper. How fortunate for the clean racers.
> 
> Sorry, my sympathy ends right about there.


The OP mentioned that he hasn't done a sanctioned race in 5 years, but didn't indicate that he was competing in unsanctioned races, which is why I simply don't care a whole lot.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

spade2you said:


> The OP mentioned that he hasn't done a sanctioned race in 5 years, but didn't indicate that he was competing in unsanctioned races, which is why I simply don't care a whole lot.





One Speed said:


> Just to note, I NEVER said that I wasn't racing. I said that I haven't raced a "sanctioned" race in 5 years. Meaning I haven't held a USA Cycling liscense or raced an event that required one.


That, and other comments, indicated that he was actively competing and not just doping to crush the other guys in the lunch ride. Not that ethically it makes a difference either way. Even if his organizing body does not specifically address doping, the OP knew that his fellow competitors would view his actions as unethical doping to gain a performance advantage, thus he chose (and still chooses) to try to hide his actions- indicating he knows what he did crossed the line.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Alaska Mike said:


> That, and other comments, indicated that he was actively competing and not just doping to crush the other guys in the lunch ride. Not that ethically it makes a difference either way. Even if his organizing body does not specifically address doping, the OP knew that his fellow competitors would view his actions as unethical doping to gain a performance advantage, thus he chose (and still chooses) to try to hide his actions- indicating he knows what he did crossed the line.


My bad.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Wait a second. Is it OK to use PEDs if your only racing is KOMs on strava?


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## One Speed (Nov 22, 2012)

Negative Rep??? LOL!!! What are we, "5 year olds!"? Who gives a sh!t? Haha


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Moderator's Note*



One Speed said:


> Negative Rep??? LOL!!! What are we, "5 year olds!"? Who gives a sh!t? Haha


And my tolerance for this exercise is over. Just be thankful I didn't nuke your main account as well.


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