# CIOCC CrMo vintage or CIOCC steel new.



## artiemeister (Jul 23, 2006)

I have a shot at 2 frames.
An older CIOCC CrMO4 alloy frame at a sweet price or a new CIOCC steel vintage frame.
Both are hand built in Italy. 
I want something unique....... just don't know enough about Chromally.

Thoughts......


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## Tonyc9075 (Jan 4, 2012)

I do not know the frames you are talking about but I can give you a CrMo report.
My Schwinn Superior made in 1976 in Chicago was a CrMo Fillet Braze frame. 
I am a big rider and have had this bike since new. I used this bike for touring, I rode this bike all over Colorado fully loaded, with camping gear. Today I still ride it every week just for fun. It’s a solid bike that doesn’t weigh a ton. CrMo makes a good bike frame. A century ride on this bike is very comfortable


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## artiemeister (Jul 23, 2006)

Thanks. I've done some reading and I'm going with the old CrMo frame. It's a beauty,
Grazie!!


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## Tonyc9075 (Jan 4, 2012)

If you can post a picture of your frame and of the bike you build. 

Tony


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## raymonda (Jan 31, 2007)

If it is a vintage ride there is a good chance that it was made by Giovanni Pelizzoli, which is a good thing. He still makes frame today the old fashion way under his name. He primarily uses SL tubing and creates some real nice eye candy. I don't have any idea who makes Ciocc steel frames today!

I remember back in the late 80's or early 90's lusting after Ciocc frames. I really liked their SLX model with lots of chrome, red paint and internal, rear cable routing. The had a real nice red they used on their frames. I dreamed of outfitting one with a Regal saggle, a nice Campy groupo and white bar tape. 

I think you made a wise choice with the NOS classic. Throw some pictures up and enjoy!


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## artiemeister (Jul 23, 2006)

Haven't received it yet but here are the pics I have.
It's a late 90's NOS steel frame. Deedacai Zero Tre tubing.
I know that's a little heavier but I understand it has a nice snappy responsive feel to it.

Apparently the new retro frames use a lo tensile steel and don't give the same ride.

I can't get wait to get it.

It's going to be my century race bike.
:thumbsup:


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## raymonda (Jan 31, 2007)

Unfortunately your frame was not made by Giovanni Pelizzoli, as it was made after he sold the company. However, your frame looks to be in good condition, has nice lugs and will give you years of enjoyment.

Put an aluminum Campy groupo on it and nice tubulars would look awsome. Just stay away from carbon on this ride. This screams retro look!


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## artiemeister (Jul 23, 2006)

I knew it was post Pelizzoli and I'm coo, with that.
I paid a post Pelizzoli price. LOL.
Internal cable routing, polished fork and stays pearl white paint..... sweet.

Regardless, this thing should ride like a dream.
My first venture into Italian Steel frames after what seems like a million carbon race frames.
Not sure which way to go as far as components..definitely Campy.
I plan on riding this a lot so I might put newer stuff on instead of building a museum piece. 
Depends on what is available and at what price,
It's going to be fun.
Thanks for the input.


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## PRB (Jun 15, 2002)

Nice choice. I've always had a thing for Ciöcc.



raymonda said:


> I don't have any idea who makes Ciocc steel frames today!


 I think they may be made by Bilato.



> I remember back in the late 80's or early 90's lusting after Ciocc frames. I really liked their SLX model with lots of chrome, red paint and internal, rear cable routing. The had a real nice red they used on their frames.


Like this?  (though it's SL)


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## raymonda (Jan 31, 2007)

oops.


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## raymonda (Jan 31, 2007)

PRB said:


> Nice choice. I've always had a thing for Ciöcc.
> 
> I think they may be made by Bilato.
> 
> Like this?  (though it's SL)


you made me mess my screen:blush2:


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

Hey artmeister, which retro Ciocc frame are you talking about that is made of LO tensile steel? Are talking the Retro San christobal? I would think that for the SC, Ciocc would use a high grade Deda or C-bus tubeset. 

Anyhow, There is a Ciocc like yours on eBay. It has wih Athena 11 and I'm guessing it may sell at the starting bid of $1500. It was originally on for $1600 staring but not one bid.

I think smart cycles has the retro San christobal in stock (no idea what they are selling it for).

How much did you pay IYDM saying? Regardless, she's a beauty! Wish I had had one!


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

PRB said:


> Nice choice. I've always had a thing for Ciöcc.
> 
> I think they may be made by Bilato.
> 
> Like this?  (though it's SL)


Very NICE!!!! How do you like the P-Zoli? Can you tell a difference between your Ciocc? Which tubeset is the Ciocc made of? Any other surprises with the Pelizzoli besides the front derailleur tab being too low? Regardless, both are stunning. Want to sell me your Ciocc?


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## Magsdad (Jun 29, 2005)

PRB said:


> Nice choice. I've always had a thing for Ciöcc.
> 
> I think they may be made by Bilato.
> 
> Like this?  (though it's SL)


Perfect.


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## PRB (Jun 15, 2002)

Ride-Fly said:


> Very NICE!!!! How do you like the P-Zoli? Can you tell a difference between your Ciocc? Which tubeset is the Ciocc made of? Any other surprises with the Pelizzoli besides the front derailleur tab being too low? Regardless, both are stunning. Want to sell me your Ciocc?


Thanks. I really like the Pelizzoli though I haven't put a huge amount of miles on it, sad to say. The ride of the two is very similar and if I was blindfolded I'm not so sure I could tell them apart. The Ciöcc is SL tubing, though I think it may have SP stays as it's definitely heavier in the rear end than the Pelizzoli. I've read of other people complaining about the tab, and I did notice it was lower than expected, but it wasn't a problem for me as I've ran a 50t big chainring for years (on 135 cranks); the build went together easily with zero surprises. And no, sorry, I think I'll keep the Ciöcc....I bought it new in '92 and we've shared a lot of miles since then.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

PRB said:


> Thanks. I really like the Pelizzoli though I haven't put a huge amount of miles on it, sad to say. The ride of the two is very similar and if I was blindfolded I'm not so sure I could tell them apart. The Ciöcc is SL tubing, though I think it may have SP stays as it's definitely heavier in the rear end than the Pelizzoli. I've read of other people complaining about the tab, and I did notice it was lower than expected, but it wasn't a problem for me as I've ran a 50t big chainring for years (on 135 cranks); the build went together easily with zero surprises. And no, sorry, I think I'll keep the Ciöcc....I bought it new in '92 and we've shared a lot of miles since then.


You've had the Ciocc since '92?!?!?!? from the limited view of the bike, the frame looks brand spanking new!!! Re-painted at some point? Wow! I swear it looks like NOS.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

Derailer tab is too low? What's up with that? Seems like a weird thing for a pro builder to get wrong.


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## PRB (Jun 15, 2002)

Ride-Fly said:


> You've had the Ciocc since '92?!?!?!? from the limited view of the bike, the frame looks brand spanking new!!! Re-painted at some point? Wow! I swear it looks like NOS.


Yes, I bought the frame and fork from the Excel in '92. I've always stored it inside; that's the original paint and it's held up quite well. That bike has been across MO three times and on numerous centuries - no idea on the total but I'd think it's in excess of 40k miles.



foto said:


> Derailer tab is too low? What's up with that? Seems like a weird thing for a pro builder to get wrong.


It's apparently high enough for a 50t ring but not a 53t, at least from what I've read.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

artiemeister said:


> Haven't received it yet but here are the pics I have.
> It's a late 90's NOS steel frame. Deedacai Zero Tre tubing.
> I know that's a little heavier but I understand it has a nice snappy responsive feel to it.
> 
> ...


I considered getting the same bike a few months ago. A guy in Spokane was sellling one with Veloce 10 for a pretty good deal ($700 IIRC). Currently there is one like yours on eBay wih Athena11 starting at $1500. 

Anyhow, I'm stoked for ya! That's a beauty! White bikes are my favorite. Make sure you give us a full ride report when you get some miles on her.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

raymonda said:


> you made me mess my screen:blush2:


+1... :thumbsup:


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

artiemeister said:


> I knew it was post Pelizzoli and I'm coo, with that. I paid a post Pelizzoli price. LOL. Internal cable routing, polished fork and stays pearl white paint..... sweet. Regardless, this thing should ride like a dream. My first venture into Italian Steel frames after what seems like a million carbon race frames. Not sure which way to go as far as components..definitely Campy. I plan on riding this a lot so I might put newer stuff on instead of building a museum piece. Depends on what is available and at what price, It's going to be fun. Thanks for the input.


Who cares? Post Pelizzoli or not, that is a beauty!! Ciocc has always made some beautiful works of art. this one is no exception. No matter what group you add to it, that frame will always be an awesome piece.... :thumbsup:


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## artiemeister (Jul 23, 2006)

Hey gang.
Upadte on the white Ciocc. 
Built up with Campy Record Crank and brakes and Campy Veloce derailleurs..all aluminum to go with the chrome... looks sweet. 3TTT Pro Chrome Quill stem and 3TTT Criterium bars w/ Gimondi bend.
Campy Khamsin wheels... sweetness.

Turns out the fork was a bit too short and even with a very short stack headset..we couldn't make it work.
The frame is a 56 and the fork is best suited for a 54 or under. Just got a brand new threadless chrome fork from Ciocc.. very nice.

I have the original fork if anyone is interested... it is very clean except there is some fading on the right fork blade.. not sure what caused it. No pitting, scratches or rust anywhere. 

That being said... I just picked up a Designer 84. Needs a little love but I really wanted a Columbus SL or SLX frame. This one is an SLX in a smokey grey. 

So I might part with the white frame or make it a cruising bike.
Pics of the Designer 84 to follow.

Ciao!!


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## artiemeister (Jul 23, 2006)

Okay. finally the build up pics for the White 1990's Ciocc pictured above.
I did this build fairly cheap. Mostly NOS from eBay.
Campy Record Crank 53/39/Record Brakes/Veloce 10 speed shifters/Veloce Rear Derailleur/Front Derailleur/Deda RS02 Alloy seat post/Prologo TR Saddle/3TT Pro Chrome Quill stem 110cm/3TTT Competizione Criterium Drop Bars w Gimondi bend/Spinergy Stealth SS 43mm wheels or Campy Khamsin wheels.


I am also including the Designer 84 which I will be building up with the parts you see above this weekend. It's just mocked up right now with my huge aeros from my carbon Max Lelli.
The 84 has a completely different geometry.. I can't wait to ride this beast.


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## PaxRomana (Jan 16, 2012)

Wow @ PRB's bikes.

I have my eye on that Pelizzoli Aeta.


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## artiemeister (Jul 23, 2006)

Thanks for the wow. 

Yes!! The Aeta looks sweet.
I've heard that the Columbus XCr stainless tubing is the way to go.
They are all $$$$ though. Have you gotten a price on the Aeta?
The Cinelli and the Casati stainless bikes are well over 4K. 
Sarto has a stainless frame that's really nice.
Pelizzoli seems to be incredibly reasonable, I would be curious to
know the price.

I'm waiting to see what the new Corsa GP (no pics) is going to be like. 
Probably going to go for that or the new Ciocc San Cristobal next year.


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## farva (Jun 24, 2005)

very nice build - looks great 
Personally I think it would look better with some classic silver rims & bar tape in some other color than black but that's just me. Enjoy your new ride


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

artiemeister said:


> I have a shot at 2 frames.
> An older CIOCC CrMO4 alloy frame at a sweet price or a new CIOCC steel vintage frame.
> Both are hand built in Italy.
> I want something unique....... just don't know enough about Chromally.
> ...


Modern steel is better then older steel, but like vintage cars, vintage CIOCC will appreciate in value while the modern one will depreciate in value; the vintage CIOCC will be a conversation piece while the modern one will be just another bike.


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## S2k552m (Apr 23, 2012)

Great stuff guys. This takes me back. Still have my 98 Ciocc DR03 and still ride it.
Wonderful profiling of the tube, it's like a diamond shape along the length.
has the chrome fork too, classic.


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## artiemeister (Jul 23, 2006)

Okay... I completed the parts swap and here is a pic of the Designer 84 built up.
All campagnolo, mostly old record stuff... Veloce shifters and rear mech.
I had the Spinergy wheels at home so I'll be rocking aeros for awhile.. looks killer,
Looking for some Shamals or something cool for a retro look.

Took it out for the maiden voyage this weekend.. 50 miles with the carbon gang and it rides like a dream. Got it up over 30 mph chasing down an attack and it shot off like a missile.
Seeing that guy's face when I smoked his Trek with a 28 year old bike was priceless.


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## BacDoc (Aug 1, 2011)

Beautiful! Great job on the build, I like the wheels on that build.

So what are you going to do with the white one?t


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## artiemeister (Jul 23, 2006)

Hey.
Thanks.
The white one is all cleaned up and boxed. I have a brand new Ciocc 1 inch threadless fork for it. (boxed also).
It just came from Italy and is un cut. (the original fork that came with that frame was too short).

Interested?

That bike rides really nice. Beautiful paint, I only put like 400 easy miles on it.
Had never been built before that. 



A.


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## BacDoc (Aug 1, 2011)

Artie,

Beauty, but frame size is not right, plus just picked up an older Colnago.

I know what you mean about the carbon comparison. Was out for a ride the other day and went a few fast miles with a guy on a new tricked out Tarmac. As I was admiring his ride and wondering how much money he had wrapped up in that bike, he looks over at mine and says that is a really nice bike.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

artiemeister said:


> Okay... I completed the parts swap and here is a pic of the Designer 84 built up.
> All campagnolo, mostly old record stuff... Veloce shifters and rear mech.
> I had the Spinergy wheels at home so I'll be rocking aeros for awhile.. looks killer,
> Looking for some Shamals or something cool for a retro look.
> ...


Great looking bike, I like those older Ciocc's with the chrome stays and forks. Of course you could take on a CF Trek...it's about the engine, not the newest greatest bike.


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## artiemeister (Jul 23, 2006)

BacDoc said:


> Beautiful! Great job on the build, I like the wheels on that build.
> 
> So what are you going to do with the white one?t


Hi. Actually the white one is for sale.

I had to replace the fork you see in the picture as it was too short.
Prob not the original. So.. I contacted CIOCC and bought a brand new
lugged steel 1" threadless fork. Still wrapped and uncut. 250 for the fork.
I am selling this at a loss but it's too pretty to sit around in a box. The frame is a 56.5, a large for the most part.


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