# Joe Papp



## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

Smear is at it again. After getting popped for testosterone and then for selling EPO on the Internet, he turned himself into an anti-doping advocate. At least that is what he told the press and anybody else who would listen. Meanwhile, Papp's real nature was hard at work. He soliticited Internet doping critics for personal information so he could sell it to Armstrong's lawyer.

Why I quit - CyclingNews Forum


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Thanks for posting this. I lurk in The Clinic and find it fascinating to see what happens there. So much info, especially from RR, and now this comes out about Papp. It doesn't surprise me the guy is a rat.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Serious business.


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## moskowe (Mar 14, 2011)

Can a little more background be provided as to what happened in the Clinic ? I've followed RBR (and it's doping section) for a long time, but I don't go on Cyclingnews forums. I'm in the process of reading the 20+ pages of the thread but I'm not quite sure I understand the motivation behind ratting out prominent forum posters.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Years ago when I first got into riding there was a newsgroup or something for the PA racing scene and folks on there just ragged on Papp mercilessly. Seems like lots of folks had a pretty low opinion of him even then, probably close to 15 years ago.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Papp is tragic. 

After reading that thread I would guess that Papp is the one who initially reached out to Armstrong's legal team. (I doubt that Armstrong contacted Papp.)


moskowe said:


> Can a little more background be provided as to what happened in the Clinic ? I've followed RBR (and it's doping section) for a long time, but I don't go on Cyclingnews forums. I'm in the process of reading the 20+ pages of the thread but I'm not quite sure I understand the motivation behind ratting out prominent forum posters.


From what I gathered, people on that board felt confident in their online anonymity and spoke freely about doping issues. Here are the cliffs:

1) Papp played both sides of the fence and after gaining the confidence of some there he coerced them into exchanging private emails and obtained their real identities. 

2) Some time ago Papp sold the name of one of the most outspoken Armstrong critics, Race Radio or "RR", to Armstrong's defense team. 

3) RR identity was not revealed in the thread. It is unclearwhether he suffered any repercussions from being outed. 

4) Papp's outing of other posters was brought to the attention of the moderators and no action was taken. 

5) In the past year Papp was able to get the names of other forum posters, using the private message system to lure them into exchanging private emails. 

6) Posters are upset that the moderators failed to ban Papp. 

7) Others say, "You should know better than to reveal your real name if privacy is important to you." 

8) The internet is serious business.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

moskowe said:


> Can a little more background be provided as to what happened in the Clinic ? I've followed RBR (and it's doping section) for a long time, but I don't go on Cyclingnews forums. I'm in the process of reading the 20+ pages of the thread but I'm not quite sure I understand the motivation behind ratting out prominent forum posters.


Several of the "big" posters over there, particularly RaceRadio (Race Radio (TheRaceRadio) on Twitter), are very vocal against Lance and they occasionally post stuff that would be considered insider info or juicy details. From what I can understand, Papp apparently got RR and others' personal info (email, etc) and passed this along to Armstrong's legal team, etc. In one example, there has been a twitter exchange in which Lance "outed" one of them as a law student after receiving the info from Papp. There is other stuff going on, but Cyclingnews removed the thread to assess their liability because they were apparently aware that Papp had done this but he was not banned from the forum, then he subsequently gained additional personal info about other posters.
This may sound silly, but The Clinic has actually been a big sh*t-stirrer in the whole pro cycling doping issue because several revelations have come to light over there (for ex. JV revealing Danielson's past, etc).


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

To that kid who is a law student: 

If you're worried about your reputation, stop posting in the thread. Stop trying to be CN's legal expert. Stop twatting with Lance Armstrong. Stop tweeting entirely. Stop injecting yourself into the situation. Stop making this about you. Unplug your internets for a few months and focus on school. People will forget about you in a few weeks.


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## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

burgrat said:


> There is other stuff going on, but Cyclingnews removed the thread to assess their liability because they were apparently aware that Papp had done this but he was not banned from the forum, then he subsequently gained additional personal info about other posters.


Last night Papp posted a legal threat laden rant to the thread. He threatened CN, the moderators, posters, etc., everyone he could afford to take legal action against, which does not sound like many as apparently he is living in his mom's basement. The convicted drug pusher and dope cheat appeared to be worried this might damage his reputation.  

He denied the allegations, but did in the way he had done before, deflecting the issue. He denied giving information to Armstrong, but the allegation is that he gave it to Lance's lawyer. He denied handing over information about a few specific members, but that was just a fear expressed by members that he might have done the same to them as he did to Race Radio. He denied getting help for his sentencing, but that was a guess by a moderator and the actual allegation is that he was paid money. He never denied getting Race Radio's personal information and transferring it to Armstrong's people. I am not sure a denial from him would be worth anything anyway. Race Radio then posted that he learned how Armstrong got his personal details from six different people he trusted that told him that Papp was bragging about doing the deed.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Joe Papp should come here and liven up our boards. He sounds fun and easily trolled.


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## txzen (Apr 6, 2005)

Thread's gone now. Would love a little more recap from those that read it.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Local Hero said:


> Joe Papp should come here and liven up our boards. He sounds fun and easily trolled.


Yeah, I am going to pass on that.


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## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

txzen said:


> Thread's gone now. Would love a little more recap from those that read it.


It is sort of a big clusterfluk. 

Race Radio (RR) has a lot of connections and posts inside info about what is going on in the Armstrong investigation.

Armstrong gave out personal info about RR, presumably so he would be harassed by his followers.

It turns out that Armstrong got the personal details from Joe Papp. Papp PMed RR saying he desperately needed RR's help with his federal case but he wanted to communicate outside the forum. A some point RR slipped up and used an email address that included his actual name. As soon as that happened Papp's desperate need came to a sudden end and he stopped communicating with RR. Shortly thereafter, Armstrong gave out info about RR.

RR heard from multiple sources that Papp was bragging about meeting Armstrong's lawyer, Hermen, and giving him the information. Apparently he was paid for it.

Keep in mind that while Papp was working to sell out one of Armstrong's most effective Internet critics, Papp had refashioned himself into anti-doping advocate and was giving quotes to any news media that would accept them.

The volunteer moderators at CN's forum were angry and wanted to ban Papp, but for some reason that is not clear CN's legal counsel prevented it. Also RR did not want Papp banned or exposed at that time. Also there is not an adequate explanation for that.

This led to a bunch of the moderators leaving the forum. They are at Velorooms now.

News of what Papp had done was passed from person to person, but it was not common knowledge. Finally someone in CN's feedback forum let the cat out of the bag. This prompted one of the ex-mods to come back and post an explanation of why he left over Papp.

In the resulting thread, several other members revealed that Papp had gotten them to communicate with him via email. People were unhappy that their identities might have been compromised by Papp.

After a good amount of bagging on Papp, Papp posted a weak denial. Later he posted a forceful half denial, threatening to investigate all the legal options he can afford, which does not appear to be much

Thread was closed pending review of CN's legal counsel.
.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

It should also be noted that the law student kid was once a staunch defender of Papp. 

The student sent a letter to a judge presiding over some matter vouching for Papp's character, despite the fact that they had never met in person. That law student kid is now upset that CN allowed Papp to continue on the boards after finding out that he was a mole. I would really like to sit down with the law student and talk some sense into him. 

I point that out because I think the entire fiasco has been driven by individuals feeling unwarranted self-importance, from Armstrong to Papp to "Chewbacca" the law student. The only level headed players were Race Radio and the mod who resigned (but even the mod overvalued his pull on the forum). Again, internetting is serious business. 


Is there any evidence that Race Radio faced repercussions after his exposure?


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## moskowe (Mar 14, 2011)

Interesting. Thanks for the explanations. I got through the whole thread before it was closed, and picked up more tidbits about LA I didn't know about. 
I guess I need to follow the Clinic a little more, I didn't know it was so popular with pros. 

I still don't think there is really that much to gain in outting a forum critic, no matter how staunch they are against you. It really sounds like either a) Papp was determined to do whatever to get back into Armstrong's good grace or b) Armstrong, in addition to being a general a**hole, is an unnecessarily cruel a**hole. Kind of ironic a law student wouldn't know about issues of privacy on the internet.


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## chaulk61 (Jan 20, 2009)

Local Hero said:


> It should also be noted that the law student kid was once a staunch defender of Papp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have always assumed that Race Radio and RBR's Dr. Falsetti are the same person


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## 88 rex (Mar 18, 2008)

chaulk61 said:


> I have always assumed that Race Radio and RBR's Dr. Falsetti are the same person


Well, duh....Pap ain't all that smart. He could have just come on over here to RBR see that RR's real name is Dr. Falsetti.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

moskowe said:


> Interesting. Thanks for the explanations. I got through the whole thread before it was closed, and picked up more tidbits about LA I didn't know about.
> I guess I need to follow the Clinic a little more, I didn't know it was so popular with pros.
> 
> I still don't think there is really that much to gain in outting a forum critic, no matter how staunch they are against you. It really sounds like either a) Papp was determined to do whatever to get back into Armstrong's good grace or b) Armstrong, in addition to being a general a**hole, is an unnecessarily cruel a**hole. Kind of ironic a law student wouldn't know about issues of privacy on the internet.


Law students, in general, know about a fifth of what they think they know about the law.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Luckily the bar exam weeds out the dumb ones. 


mpre53 said:


> Law students, in general, know about a fifth of what they think they know about the law.


Lawyers, in general, know about a quarter of what they think they know about the law.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Local Hero said:


> Joe Papp should come here and liven up our boards. He sounds fun and easily trolled.


I seem to recall he was here for a bit, maybe before he realized "the clinic" had way more people that would pay attention to him?


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Coolhand said:


> Yeah, I am going to pass on that.


But he does have an account here: joe.p01.
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/member.php?u=351648

He posted exactly once, and he has PM'ed me asking to talk by personal email. I declined. I'm sure I wasn't the only one he PM'ed.


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## mpre53 (Oct 25, 2011)

Local Hero said:


> Luckily the bar exam weeds out the dumb ones.
> Lawyers, in general, know about a quarter of what they think they know about the law.


Making a living at it weeds out the dumb ones. :thumbsup:


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## joe.p01 (Oct 14, 2009)

trailrunner68 said:


> Smear is at it again. After getting popped for testosterone and then for selling EPO on the Internet, he turned himself into an anti-doping advocate. At least that is what he told the press and anybody else who would listen. Meanwhile, Papp's real nature was hard at work. He soliticited Internet doping critics for personal information so he could sell it to Armstrong's lawyer.
> 
> [link removed]Why I quit - CyclingNews Forum[/url]



If any of that were actually true, the offending, libelous, defamatory material wouldn't have been deleted from cyclingnews.com forums...


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

So what parts aren't true? You were sanctioned by USADA in 2007 and 2011.


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## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

joe.p01 said:


> If any of that were actually true, the offending, libelous, defamatory material wouldn't have been deleted from cyclingnews.com forums...


Bzzzt! Bogus argument. 

Your argument holds about as much water as the one you made about how you, someone who risked going to prison dealing drugs across the internet, could not have sold RR out because by doing so you would risk going to prison by derailing your plea agreement.

Race Radio and the moderators' word against that of a cheating drug dealer. Hmmm, which side should we believe?


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## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

Fireform said:


> So what parts aren't true? You were sanctioned by USADA in 2007 and 2011.


I think it is the anti-doping advocate part.


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## 3rensho (Aug 26, 2003)

joe.p01 said:


> If any of that were actually true, the offending, libelous, defamatory material wouldn't have been deleted from cyclingnews.com forums...


If any of that is true, you are the lowest form. Hope it was worth it. Off with you now, OK?


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Don't let these meanies get to you, Joe Papp. I still believe in you. 

Do you still ride? How's that going? 

Send me a PM and we can email about it.


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## CabDoctor (Jun 11, 2005)

joe.p01 said:


> If any of that were actually true, the offending, libelous, defamatory material wouldn't have been deleted from cyclingnews.com forums...


Right, because the Internet is just a collection of truths and it's only after a rather exhaustive and through investigation that the Internet fairies decide what stays and what is deleted. Therefore what is deleted MUST be a falsehood and treated as such. Thanks for clearing that up oh expert of all things virtuous and truthful.


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## joe.p01 (Oct 14, 2009)

Fireform said:


> So what parts aren't true? You were sanctioned by USADA in 2007 and 2011.


What was not true was the libelous, defamatory accusation that I sold, traded, or otherwise gave away contact information of a forum user 2 or 3 years ago (don't remember exactly when it was alleged to have occurred).


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## cyclesport45 (Dec 10, 2007)

Moderator, please put this thread in the, "SAD" forum. Thanks.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Moderator's Note*

Cyclingnews can keep their own trouble, we don't need it here.


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