# Can Titanium frames be painted ?



## moonmoth (Nov 8, 2008)

Why is it that most Ti frames I see out on the road (Litespeed, Merlin, Moots, Dean, etc.) have that clear-coated metallic look and are not painted? Not that this is a bad thing but I'm wondering if Ti frames are difficult to paint, or are they putting the Ti and the welds on display?


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Showing off metal. Also getting frames painted can run into $$$


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## jmlapoint (Sep 4, 2008)

Why paint it...the bare metal looks so nice.

john


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## onlineflyer (Aug 8, 2005)

Lynskey offers painted frames. They are expensive but purdy.


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## backinthesaddle (Nov 22, 2006)

Powdercoat is your friend...


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

sure they can, iirc it might just take a bit more prep... look at serottas, tons of those were painted


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

What they said. And from a practical angle, there is no need to protect ti so why bother.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Pros and cons*



moonmoth said:


> Why is it that most Ti frames I see out on the road (Litespeed, Merlin, Moots, Dean, etc.) have that clear-coated metallic look and are not painted? Not that this is a bad thing but I'm wondering if Ti frames are difficult to paint, or are they putting the Ti and the welds on display?


Paint adds cost, adds weight, and gets nicked and scraped. A brush finish Ti frame is almost impossible to scuff and can be "repaired" with a ScotchBrite pad. And of course lots of people want to show off their Ti frame. BTW there is no clear coat on an exposed Ti frame. Just a brushed finish of bare metal, which does not corrode so there's no clear coat needed (unless you're desperate to protect the decals).


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## armybikerider (Oct 27, 2009)

Painting Ti is like painting 14 ct gold earrings..........it can be done but why ruin the look?


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## padawan716 (Mar 22, 2008)

If you paint it, how will people know it's titanium and not just cheap-o steel?


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## Mootsie (Feb 4, 2004)

Glad you asked before you did what one previous poster did to his Ti. Don't let this happen to you. I cry everytime I look at this.


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## MarshallH1987 (Jun 17, 2009)

you should rattle can paint it another color. Metallic silver would look nice.


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## raymond7204 (Sep 22, 2008)

Maybe it's just plain old bike snobbery. 

You can't paint a Moots, Lynskey, or Litespeed Ti frame. That would be sacrilege. 

Of course, few would question painting over the "Motobecane" name of the Le Champion Ti.

And I'm not a Bikes Direct critic. I actually think they have grewat deals.

Ray


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

My old bike was a Bianchi Ti Megatubo. Painted Celeste at Bianchi Reparto Corse, of course. 

It had a sticker on the seat tube explaining that the tubing was Ti alloy, padawan.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

Mootsie said:


> Glad you asked before you did what one previous poster did to his Ti. Don't let this happen to you. I cry everytime I look at this.


I've always liked that bike. Nice simple paint design.


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## cyclust (Sep 8, 2004)

Back when ti frames were "the" frame of choice, I had no desire to own one because of their bland looks. But now that I have owned a few, I've realized the true beauty is the fact that they are easily re-newwd with a bit of scotchbrite and elbow grease. I think if you were to buy a painted ti frame and then get a big scratch or scrape on it, you'd feel soooo foolish!


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

Mootsie said:


> Glad you asked before you did what one previous poster did to his Ti. Don't let this happen to you. I cry everytime I look at this.


But then again there is Baum:




























One of the few companies I would swap my Moots for.


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

Failure to paint titanium is like living in a black and white world; think of what you're missing.

That Moots is gorgeous, and the owner is to be given credit for "putting a dress" on a naked frame. They should have finished the job and painted the fork to match but, you can't have everything I guess.

What really stands out is the frame is too small for the owner.

And yes; Baum REALLY knows how to finish a frame. I wish I had that kind of artistic eye.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

I personally like the half painted/ half bare look. I don't like naked Ti look but I like the look of paint chips.

To each their own, but naked Ti is fugly to me.

Len


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

I used to think bare ti bikes were boring, until I owned one. Now I like unpainted ti because you don't ever have to worry about scratching the paint, plus it's lighter. You can dress up a ti frame with your choice of decals, bar tape, saddle, etc. If you do paint one, keep the chain stays bare because they will get chipped sooner or later anyway. I'm keeping my bare.


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## SilentAssassin (Jul 29, 2010)

I like how the welds are sanded down to give a smooth look. Makes me want to hang the frame on the wall and never ride it.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

people use weight as a rationale against paint?! seriously?


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

FatTireFred said:


> people use weight as a rationale against paint?! seriously?


Real weight weenies will stop nowhere. I'm not a weight weenie, but leaving a ti frame unpainted does save some weight that serves no real purpose unless you just gotta have a painted frame.


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

That Moots looks like it has an Alu frame.


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

That Moots looks like it has an Alu frame to me.


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## 6-Speed (Sep 9, 2010)

Bare Ti looks beautiful!


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

6-Speed said:


> Bare Ti looks beautiful!




but of those 2 bikes, I'd bet the trek gets just as many second looks...


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

As I was reading through this I remembered that I have a painted ti bike. I think it's okay. I left the chain stay blank.


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## kritiman (Jul 31, 2006)

Do any frame makers use anodized titanium? Is there a reason why not? 
You could have any color you like.

From: http://stores.universal-outfitters.com/Categories.bok?category=GRIPS%3A1911+STYLE+PISTOLS%3ATitanium+Grips


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## perttime (Jun 27, 2005)

Those partly painted ones look nice but if I ever get a Ti bike, I am pretty sure I'll leave it unpainted. It'll get scratched anyway.

Not sure what I'd do with a stainless steel frame. May depend on how good the joints look naked.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

perttime said:


> Those partly painted ones look nice but if I ever get a Ti bike, I am pretty sure I'll leave it unpainted. It'll get scratched anyway.
> 
> Not sure what I'd do with a stainless steel frame. May depend on how good the joints look naked.


You could do what I did. Powder coat is tough stuff, hard to scratch.


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## NealH (May 2, 2004)

Those painted Ti bikes look great. I've always thought that if I ordered a Ti bike, it would be bare. Don't know now as it would require some thought. Just seems to me that from an aesthetic point of view, painted looks better - as evidenced in this thread.


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## Mark Kelly (Oct 27, 2009)

kritiman said:


> Do any frame makers use anodized titanium? Is there a reason why not?
> You could have any color you like.


Because anodising titanium decreases it durability by increasing its susceptibility to cracking.


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## Pablo (Jul 7, 2004)

Mootsie said:


> Glad you asked before you did what one previous poster did to his Ti. Don't let this happen to you. I cry everytime I look at this.


Is that a prank pullled by someone at Yeti?


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## veloduffer (Aug 26, 2004)

I painted my titanium Kish and kept it bare ti on the lower half where it is more susceptible to chipping:


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

Peter P. said:


> What really stands out is the frame is too small for the owner.


How can you say this by looking at it? If the owner falls between frame sizes, this is what happens. My three F-Series Felts are 58 cm frames that are set up the same way. If I had gone one size larger to a 60 cm, I could've been fitted- with a 90 or 100mm stem and the saddle moved forward slightly.


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## BunnV (Sep 7, 2005)

FTR said:


> But then again there is Baum:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That white Baum is the bomb! :thumbsup:


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## smoo (Sep 20, 2007)

The whole point of getting a Ti frame instead of carbon is not having to worry about everyday knocks, scratches and gouges. You can lean it against concrete, kick it, wrap the chain around the stay, doesn't matter... It'll look exactly the same in 50 years time after a bit of a polish with an abrasive pad. 

Painted logos on the top and down tubes are as far as I'd go - unlikely to get scratched, and once they start to look tatty you can just scrape them off.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

Mark Kelly said:


> Because anodising titanium decreases it durability by increasing its susceptibility to cracking.


As fascinating as it is wrong.

Titanium anodizing and aluminum anodizing are very different things. What you have said is (marginally) true for aluminum, but not for Ti.

/And you can't get 'any color you choose.' Ti anodizing is a process of determining the depth of the naturally-forming oxide layer, creating color in the same way oil creates a rainbow of color in a parking lot puddle. Because of Ti's reflectivity and the depths available, the color choices are limited.

But anodizing Ti is an interesting way to dress up a Ti frame. 

http://www.titaniumarts.com/pages/bikeart/bikeart.html?content=2#

Back to the main topic, Ti isn't painted mostly because there's no reason to: Ti (and the transparent oxide layer that spontaneously forms) are stronger than paint, and rust is obviously not a problem. If you find paint attractive and don't mind babying your frame to keep it looking good, go for it!


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## kritiman (Jul 31, 2006)

danl1 said:


> Because of Ti's reflectivity and the depths available, the color choices are limited.
> But anodizing Ti is an interesting way to dress up a Ti frame.
> 
> http://www.titaniumarts.com/pages/bikeart/bikeart.html?content=2#


A very cool site!


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

smoo said:


> The whole point of getting a Ti frame instead of carbon is not having to worry about everyday knocks, scratches and gouges. .


Really? It wasn't why I bought the three I have. I guess I got lucky by accident.


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

terry b said:


> Really? It wasn't why I bought the three I have. I guess I got lucky by accident.


I split the difference and got 3 of both.


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## Mark Kelly (Oct 27, 2009)

danl1 said:


> As fascinating as it is wrong.


Anodising titanium causes a surface tensile stress due to dislocation between the structure of the oxide and the base metal. This has been repeatedly demonstrated and is well accepted by researchers in the field. 

But don't take my word for it, see for instance figure 2 in this article .


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## smoo (Sep 20, 2007)

terry b said:


> Really? It wasn't why I bought the three I have. I guess I got lucky by accident.


Why else would you buy Ti? Looks? Ride quality? Good Ti frames ride brilliantly (I have one), but you can probably find a carbon frame that will ride the same as any Ti frame. Titanium comes into its own if you want a frame you intend to keep, use and abuse for many years without ever having to worry about it looking tatty or being broken by luggage handlers. 
.


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## tonkabaydog (Jul 22, 2010)

Has any every taken a high speed buffer with a polishing compound to produce an ultra high chrome like finish. 

I saw on you tube that either Moots or Seven offered it, but the Tubes had to be polished before making them in to a frame.


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## carveitup (Oct 25, 2008)

There are several manufacturers that offer polished ti frames. But they generally charge a good deal extra for it as it is quite a labour intensive process.


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

smoo said:


> Why else would you buy Ti? Looks? Ride quality? Good Ti frames ride brilliantly (I have one), but you can probably find a carbon frame that will ride the same as any Ti frame. Titanium comes into its own if you want a frame you intend to keep, use and abuse for many years without ever having to worry about it looking tatty or being broken by luggage handlers.
> .


All reasons you mentioned plus the brand and the reputation of the builder and the geometry and the ability to pick the color scheme I wanted. Durability wasn't even on my list. I simply don't think about durability, ever. It's unimportant to me.

Which is why I responded to your point that durability was the _whole point_ to buying it.


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## misterdangerpants (Oct 23, 2008)

Here's my painted Independent Fabrication Titanium Crown Jewel. If I did it all over, I wouldn't paint it. I liked it, but I prefer the low maintenance of an unpainted frame more. I just built up a 953 650B SS MTB and kept it raw.


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## Steve B. (Jun 26, 2004)

Peter P. said:


> Failure to paint titanium is like living in a black and white world; think of what you're missing.
> 
> .


Paint on a titanium is a PITA !. I have a 2003 Lemond Victorie titanium, as painted by Trek, that went back to Trek after 2 years, under warranty when the paint started flaking badly. The 2nd paint job suffered the same fate within a year and Trek wouldn't warranty it !. Dicks !.

I had it powder coated locally and that seems to be holding up, but the bottom line with painted titanium is a huge amount of preparation is required to do it correctly and Trek never did that !. So choose wisely or go with basic metal look.

SB


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## SilentAssassin (Jul 29, 2010)

A good aluminum frame can ride just as good as titanium or carbon I hear.


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## perttime (Jun 27, 2005)

I am sure many of us wear rings made out of precious metals. I am not painting mine...


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## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

misterdangerpants said:


> I liked it, but I prefer the low maintenance of an unpainted frame.


That is a beautiful frame.

How much time do you spend maintaining a painted frame? I don't spend any. What exactly does painted frame maintenance consist of?


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## Quattro_Assi_07 (Jan 13, 2006)

Mootsie said:


> Glad you asked before you did what one previous poster did to his Ti. Don't let this happen to you. I cry everytime I look at this.


I like that paint job. Really, who cares if it is painted Ti? Here is my painted (flip-flop paint) Ti Quattro Assi with polished seat and chain stays.










As far as it being heavier, give me break. I'll take the weight penalty over the blandness of naked Ti any day. Same goes for naked plastic, I mean carbon. My frame is almost 8 years old now and not a chip or scratch on it. I am really carefully with my bikes when loading them or storing them and I guess the frame was prepped correctly before painting.


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## Quattro_Assi_07 (Jan 13, 2006)

smoo said:


> The whole point of getting a Ti frame instead of carbon is not having to worry about everyday knocks, scratches and gouges. You can lean it against concrete, kick it, wrap the chain around the stay, doesn't matter... It'll look exactly the same in 50 years time after a bit of a polish with an abrasive pad.


Seriously? This is a joke, right? You would buy a Ti frame ($$$) and then treat it like a Walmart piece of $hit? You must have more money than I have. I treat all my equipment as if I couldn't afford to replace it. I choose Ti (along with steel, aluminum, and carbon) for the ride qualities, not so I can trash it.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

perttime said:


> I am sure many of us wear rings made out of precious metals. I am not painting mine...




well that's relevant...


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

while many unpainted Ti frames are quite attractive, they tend to have a stark, industrial look to me.

I like my Ti Paramount with painted tubes and bare stays.

the whole 'no maintenance' argument had no bearing on my purchase of a Ti frame.


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## perttime (Jun 27, 2005)

FatTireFred said:


> well that's relevant...


Ha, why not. There's people with titanium rings too, and they don't feel they should cover the metal surface with paint.


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## vis8892 (Dec 16, 2005)

kritiman said:


> A very cool site!


http://www.instructables.com/id/Anodize-Titanium/


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## carveitup (Oct 25, 2008)

perttime said:


> I am sure many of us wear rings made out of precious metals. I am not painting mine...


Absolutely! My wedding ring and my wife's wedding and engagement rings are all titanium (well, the engagement ring has some carbon too  ) and they aren't painted!


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

perttime said:


> Ha, why not. There's people with titanium rings too, and they don't feel they should cover the metal surface with paint.




how many non-ti rings are painted?


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## perttime (Jun 27, 2005)

FatTireFred said:


> how many non-ti rings are painted?


Not many, I think: rings are generally made out of materials that look good and don't need protective layers.

My point being... there's no urgent reason to paint a Ti frame, unless you want to cover that metal with something that is less durable.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

perttime said:


> ... there's no urgent reason to paint a Ti frame, unless you want to cover that metal with something that is less durable.




...but arguably better looking.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

Mark Kelly said:


> Anodising titanium causes a surface tensile stress due to dislocation between the structure of the oxide and the base metal. This has been repeatedly demonstrated and is well accepted by researchers in the field.
> 
> But don't take my word for it, see for instance figure 2 in this article .


Facts and truth are often separate things. 

All the pure-anodization failures are right at or around base material yield strength, which other than a der. hanger or two, a bike never sees. Let alone the tens-of-thousands to millions of times described in this testing. 

So while your facts are correct (actually there's a conditional argument there relative to the anodization technique used, but why bother?) you are wrong to the truth: Anodization won't do a thing to the effective life of a bicycle. 

OK, so maybe lay off the HT welds on the 6/4 downhill rig.


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## Mark Kelly (Oct 27, 2009)

danl1 said:


> Facts and truth are often separate things.
> 
> All the pure-anodization failures are right at or around base material yield strength, which other than a der. hanger or two, a bike never sees. Let alone the tens-of-thousands to millions of times described in this testing.
> 
> ...


I have a great deal of respect for people who admit they they are wrong when called on it.


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## MTBe-ah (Nov 23, 2005)

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=85870

My 3/4 painted Ti Kish......I still enjoy the look!


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## stickney (Jul 28, 2005)

TI's durability was a factor in my decision to go TI. I live up north where salt, chip seal, gravel are facts of life and I didn't want to have any worries about my frame. And I am routinely happy I went with TI. I have had both steel and alum and steel does rust and alum is fine, but I wanted something a little less harsh. 

As to paint, naked or painted, both are fine. If you do paint, leave the stays/bracket area nude TI though, it looks so nice. 

I love the link for the do it yourself anodizing, haha. I don't think I will be trying that.


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## smoo (Sep 20, 2007)

Quattro_Assi_07 said:


> Seriously? This is a joke, right? You would buy a Ti frame ($$$) and then treat it like a Walmart piece of $hit? You must have more money than I have. I treat all my equipment as if I couldn't afford to replace it. I choose Ti (along with steel, aluminum, and carbon) for the ride qualities, not so I can trash it.


 No, you're completely missing the point, which is that you *could* treat a Ti frame like that and it wouldn't matter. You'd just need to give it a quick polish to remove superficial scratches. That's a huge weight off the mind and a big advantage of Ti which is largely lost if you paint it.


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

moonmoth said:


> Why is it that most Ti frames I see out on the road (Litespeed, Merlin, Moots, Dean, etc.) have that clear-coated metallic look and are not painted? Not that this is a bad thing but I'm wondering if Ti frames are difficult to paint, or are they putting the Ti and the welds on display?



Personally, I never like the "gun metal finish" Ti bike.
I have had two Ti bikes, and both were painted.
Here is the one I still have.
I had the custom Ti stem on it with the matching color.


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## jpap (Jun 21, 2006)

My first Ti bike was left bare. My second Ti bike is painted. Either way looks good to me. I just love Ti.


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## campyhag (Feb 4, 2004)

terry b said:


> As I was reading through this that I have a painted ti bike. I think it's okay. I left the chain stay blank.



Its way more than OK, its way sweet.


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