# SRAM Red 2012-2013 Backward Comaptable!!!



## holsen (Mar 28, 2012)

IT REALLY WORKS! I just read a great aricle at velonews.competitor.com/2012/03/news/it-works-we-test-sram-red-backwards-compatibility_209270 and it inspired me to swap a few components. I've been riding a Pinarello FP6 with a full Force 2010 set up and have been very happy with it but last week I mis-shifted and dropped the chain. I chewed up a good chunk of paint around the BB and chain stay right down to the carbon and felt my heart drop into my stomach. I decided I never wanted that to happen again and the strength of this article convinced me swap out a few components to the newest (2013) Red. I got the New FD, RD, the latest XG 1090 Cassette and the 1091R Chain. I kept the original Force Shifters and Force Cranks & Chain Rings and Brakes... OH MY WORD.... its a brand new bike. The front shifting has an instant crisp response, there's no chain rub, it's precise, smooth and unbelievably QUIET.
Honestly I couldn't have imagined how good this is. These components are completely backward compatible (at least in the configuration Iève described on my bike) and if I was happy with my bike before, I'm ecstatic now. I really want to thank VeloNews for their article. My LBS has said repeatedly not to mix components. Today I rode over there with the new stuff retrofitted in and even they had to admit they were impressed. Without this article I would have never gone for it, and now that I have I can confirm that the New SRAM red is amazing. If itès good retrofitted with FORCE the entire gruppo must be stunning especially given the weight loss.


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## D. W. Davis (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks for the tip, holsen.

Due to my experience with the old SRAM Red, I was forced to learn how the front derailleur really works. I'm from the ignorance is bliss school. I liked everything about the old Red system until that first dropped chain. 

I'm glad it gets better.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

There are a few threads about this already. We've been installing new Red FDs on all sorts of bikes.


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## Dcmkx2000 (Mar 18, 2010)

I am going to get a new red fd for my rival groupset.


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## holsen (Mar 28, 2012)

I suspect you're going to love it. Goodluck


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

The new Red does shift great. I don't know how much better than simply installing a Shimano 105 derailleur on your Sram bike. If I had a problem with Rival, I'd sure consider that before plunking down the cash for new Red.


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## Monument247 (Mar 3, 2012)

Looking at the Sram install video for the new derailleur, it looks like it's set up with markings for alignment from the factory. If, after doing the initial install using those markings, are there instructions somewhere for reinstalling - like when you finally get a new crank when they're available?


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## holsen (Mar 28, 2012)

I had the gear installed at my LBS, they tell me the install was just pretty much like the old RED or or any other FD. The alignment etching on the outside of the cage won't wear off, just the alignment etching inside the cage, but in reality that mark is there to make it dead simple, the placement of this FD in relation to the chainring is no different than the old Red, Force, etc. .... That's what they tell me.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

holsen said:


> I had the gear installed at my LBS, they tell me the install was just pretty much like the old RED or or any other FD. The alignment etching on the outside of the cage won't wear off, just the alignment etching inside the cage, but in reality that mark is there to make it dead simple, the placement of this FD in relation to the chainring is no different than the old Red, Force, etc. .... That's what they tell me.


The new Red is mounted higher than old ones, and are aligned while over the big ring, not parallel to it like others. It is definitely different and should be done with an understanding of the instructions.


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## Monument247 (Mar 3, 2012)

Do the instructions come with it? The last time I looked at the Sram site, I could only find a video for installation.

Thanks.


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## OutAndBack (Aug 18, 2011)

Would you know any performance increase moving from a 2011 Force FD to the 2012 Red? Other than the built in chain catcher?


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## rgordin (Oct 22, 2010)

OutAndBack said:


> Would you know any performance increase moving from a 2011 Force FD to the 2012 Red? Other than the built in chain catcher?


I am interested in the same thing. The 2011 Force was hard to adjust. Though it has stopped throwing the chain, I still get chain rub, such as in the 34/13 combo, even though my smallest gear is a 12.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

I've read the same article and was very pleased to hear the backward compatibility of the new sram red FD with the previous generation red shifters. Especially, after hearing from countless LBS that have said otherwise. Some have gone as far as saying you need the entire new system for it to work properly. Others have said that you need at least the new shifters. Now, I would love to get the new shifters, but they are not inexpensive. 

I was fortunate enough to find a new Red FD! Will have her installed with my Rotor Qrings and previous generation Red shifters. 

Just out of curiosity: How are you guys picking up the 2012/2013 Sram Red FD? Most LBS are not selling it as a stand alone piece.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

rgordin said:


> I am interested in the same thing. The 2011 Force was hard to adjust. Though it has stopped throwing the chain, I still get chain rub, such as in the 34/13 combo, even though my smallest gear is a 12.


don't know if you've read the instructions SRAM provides for drivetrain parts, or you're having someone else do the work, but it specifically states to avoid the extreme cross-chain situations(big-big and the next cog down, as well as small-small and the next cog up) as they can cause noise and excessive wear. i still have no idea why anyone would *want* to use the 34/12-13 combo. you can shift to the 50 and use the 19...virtually the same gear as 34/13. modern drivetrains are designed to offer a better chance of working in the big/big combo rather than the small/small. this is especially true w/ compact chainring drivetrains. it varies from bike to bike, but it's usually possible to run big/big w/ no problem. there is a much greater chance of a rider rolling along in the big ring and needing to shift a few gears easier to get over a short rise than a rider actually *needing* to go fast while in the 34. small/small combos are useless...i can't understand why so many riders insist on being able to use them.


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## rgordin (Oct 22, 2010)

cxwrench said:


> don't know if you've read the instructions SRAM provides for drivetrain parts, or you're having someone else do the work, but it specifically states to avoid the extreme cross-chain situations(big-big and the next cog down, as well as small-small and the next cog up) as they can cause noise and excessive wear. i still have no idea why anyone would *want* to use the 34/12-13 combo. you can shift to the 50 and use the 19...virtually the same gear as 34/13. modern drivetrains are designed to offer a better chance of working in the big/big combo rather than the small/small. this is especially true w/ compact chainring drivetrains. it varies from bike to bike, but it's usually possible to run big/big w/ no problem. there is a much greater chance of a rider rolling along in the big ring and needing to shift a few gears easier to get over a short rise than a rider actually *needing* to go fast while in the 34. small/small combos are useless...i can't understand why so many riders insist on being able to use them.


Thanks. I did not know that SRAM discouraged the use of the next gear from the extreme cross-over. You're right, of course, about finding a new gear combo that is close simply by shifting the front ring. Sometimes when I am riding - and know what is coming - it just seems easier to stay in one chain ring and switch the rear.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

rgordin said:


> Thanks. I did not know that SRAM discouraged the use of the next gear from the extreme cross-over. You're right, of course, about finding a new gear combo that is close simply by shifting the front ring. Sometimes when I am riding - and know what is coming - it just seems easier to stay in one chain ring and switch the rear.


it's even more likely to happen w/ (current) Red/Force because these shifters have the trim click on the big chainring position, not the small ring. of course w/ the 'new/2012' Red, the front derailleur takes care of this so the trim click isn't needed.


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

cxwrench said:


> don't know if you've read the instructions SRAM provides for drivetrain parts, or you're having someone else do the work, but it specifically states to avoid the extreme cross-chain situations(big-big and the next cog down, as well as small-small and the next cog up) as they can cause noise and excessive wear. i still have no idea why anyone would *want* to use the 34/12-13 combo. you can shift to the 50 and use the 19...virtually the same gear as 34/13. modern drivetrains are designed to offer a better chance of working in the big/big combo rather than the small/small. this is especially true w/ compact chainring drivetrains. it varies from bike to bike, but it's usually possible to run big/big w/ no problem. there is a much greater chance of a rider rolling along in the big ring and needing to shift a few gears easier to get over a short rise than a rider actually *needing* to go fast while in the 34. small/small combos are useless...i can't understand why so many riders insist on being able to use them.


Well put :thumbsup:


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

thank you very much...can i have a bacon/maple bar?


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## OutAndBack (Aug 18, 2011)

Is there any performance increase moving from a 2011 Force FD to the 2012 Red? Other than the built in chain catcher? Assuming your not currently cross-chaining?

Trek recommends a chain catcher of some sort on their carbon frames, and it is either buy a $35 K-Edge, or a $125 2012 Red FD. The FD seems like the logical choice with the built in chain catcher, but just curious if I will see a performance benefit otherwise.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

the new Red derailleur should work much better than the previous Red (ti cage) and probably a bit better than the steel cage version as well. if your shifting is good now, the K-Edge is the better value.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

I don't know why anyone would *want* to mix-n-match Red parts. The new stuff is much improved - ALL of it. The cranks/rings are better, the front derailleur is better, the shifters are better, the cassette is better, the brake calipers are better.... what? Just keep the old style rear derailleur? Why?


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## Dcmkx2000 (Mar 18, 2010)

I know i cant afford an entire red group, but if one piece will make my current rival group shift better, why wouldnt i upgrade it? I think its a smart affordable decision.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

PlatyPius said:


> I don't know why anyone would *want* to mix-n-match Red parts. The new stuff is much improved - ALL of it. The cranks/rings are better, the front derailleur is better, the shifters are better, the cassette is better, the brake calipers are better.... what? Just keep the old style rear derailleur? Why?


Because the old Red derailleur was terrible, and the new one is possibly the best front derailleur avaible?

It isn't like old Red is going to have much resale value, and a Red group isn't exactly cheap.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

I am having the hardest time getting a mechanic willing to install my new RED FD with my previous generation RED shifters!?!?! Most have said that they would do it ONLY if I went with the new RED shifters as well. Too much trouble and unsure of reliability is what I am hearing from them. 

Anyone else running into this type of resistance? Or are you guys doing the install yourselves? Please advise. Thanks.


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## holsen (Mar 28, 2012)

Between these post there are two answers:
1." I don't know why anyone would *want* to mix-n-match Red parts." - For Some of us it's a matter of $$. I put a whole new Force Group together 6 months ago and simply couldn't justify spending on a whole new group when the old one only had 3 months of use on it.

2. Yes there is some resistence. My Pinarello dealer refused. I showed him the VeloNews report referenced in this thread and he said "Yeah BUT they are not mechanics" so I took my new gear to an independant shop, they put it on and I'm telling you it is flawless with the old shifters (Force) and the old cranks/rings (force).

The way I understand it: If you use the old RED Shifters with the new RED FD, you get a redundant trim. If you use the NEW RED SHIFTERS - You MUST get the new Crank and RIngs. If you use the old crank, old shifters - the New FD works fine. I proved it on my bike. All I changed is FD, RD, Chain, Cassette and it's beautiful!


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## OutAndBack (Aug 18, 2011)

holsen said:


> Between these post there are two answers:
> 1." I don't know why anyone would *want* to mix-n-match Red parts." - For Some of us it's a matter of $$. I put a whole new Force Group together 6 months ago and simply couldn't justify spending on a whole new group when the old one only had 3 months of use on it.
> 
> 2. Yes there is some resistence. My Pinarello dealer refused. I showed him the VeloNews report referenced in this thread and he said "Yeah BUT they are not mechanics" so I took my new gear to an independant shop, they put it on and I'm telling you it is flawless with the old shifters (Force) and the old cranks/rings (force).
> ...


Did you notice a performance gain going from the Force FD to the new Red FD?


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

Cni2i said:


> I am having the hardest time getting a mechanic willing to install my new RED FD with my previous generation RED shifters!?!?! Most have said that they would do it ONLY if I went with the new RED shifters as well. Too much trouble and unsure of reliability is what I am hearing from them.
> 
> Anyone else running into this type of resistance? Or are you guys doing the install yourselves? Please advise. Thanks.


We read the article, then installed the derailleur and tried it for ourselves. Any dealer that says it won't work hasn't tried it, or they just want to sell complete groups for reasons that have nothing to do with mechanics.

If your bike shop wants to talk to another bike shop that has installed them, get in touch with me and I'll give you my number.

The simple fact in this case is that the cable pull is no different between a new and old Red shifter. That's why you can install the new FD on older stuff.


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## squareslinky (Aug 13, 2009)

I went down to my shop today to get prices on everything today. I want to ease into the new red and then add a new power meter. Spreading out the price will make it easier on the immediate expense and since the power meter isn't available right now, this is a great way for me to proceed.


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## holsen (Mar 28, 2012)

Yes, the preformance is definately better. It's quicker, smoother and no chain clatter. With the old FD I could dial in the trim but not perfect. This new set up is perfect and with the included Chain Spotter, it's impossible to throw a chain in an overshift situation. And it is QUIET!


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

holsen said:


> Between these post there are two answers:
> 1." I don't know why anyone would *want* to mix-n-match Red parts." - For Some of us it's a matter of $$. I put a whole new Force Group together 6 months ago and simply couldn't justify spending on a whole new group when the old one only had 3 months of use on it.
> 
> 2. Yes there is some resistence. My Pinarello dealer refused. I showed him the VeloNews report referenced in this thread and he said "Yeah BUT they are not mechanics" so I took my new gear to an independant shop, they put it on and I'm telling you it is flawless with the old shifters (Force) and the old cranks/rings (force).
> ...


Thanks for the reply to #2. Great to hear it first hand from someone who has already done it. :thumbsup:

As to #1, I agree 100%. I would love to get the entire new gruppo, BUT don't want to drop all that $$$ right now....plus I am fairly happy with my current setup already. The "older" Red shifters and rear derailleur work fine for me....but if I can get a little better shifting up front by changing the FD (for not that much $), that's what I am going to do.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

holsen said:


> Between these post there are two answers:
> 1." I don't know why anyone would *want* to mix-n-match Red parts." - For Some of us it's a matter of $$. I put a whole new *Force Group together 6 months ago* and simply couldn't justify spending on a whole new group when the old one only had 3 months of use on it.


That's understandable.

A good case for reading the entire thread is exhibited here... I imagined people mixing cheaper "old" Red parts with new Red parts to keep the cost down.

In my defense, it has been busy as hell here at the shop.


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## Carbonjockey (May 14, 2012)

I too read the article and talked my LBS into mounting the new FD with 2011 SRAM RED Front shifters, and the 2011 RED compact crankset (I couldn't wait for the New Red cranks to come out in compact). I can't say that shifting is perfect but it's heading that way with minor adjustments. I am getting some chain throw off the small ring and realized the chain spotter was not installed. I was told that it couldn't be attached because I don't have a braze on fitting and the clamp used is not compatible with the chain spotter and it's small black positioning bolt adjustment piece. I have the chain spotter assembly in hand, any suggestions or experience mounting the spotter with a clamp set-up would be very mcuh appreciated.

Cheers C


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

I put a new 2012 Red front derailleur on my 2010 Force equiped Super Six.. Shifting is flawless. Love it!


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

After my recent travails with the old Red Ti FD I bought an Ultegra FD for about $30. The old Red is currently working beautifully again so I will wait and see how long that lasts. Even investing just in the new Red FD at $125 is pretty steep so I'll be giving the cheap but reliable Ultegra a chance first. 

I already have a K-Edge. $35 is a lot of money for a bit of bent metal with no moving parts. It is also very tricky to get it in the right place while not losing the FD adjustment, so the integrated and independently adjustable SRAM catcher is appealing.


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## Carbonjockey (May 14, 2012)

Carbonjockey said:


> I too read the article and talked my LBS into mounting the new FD with 2011 SRAM RED Front shifters, and the 2011 RED compact crankset (I couldn't wait for the New Red cranks to come out in compact). I can't say that shifting is perfect but it's heading that way with minor adjustments. I am getting some chain throw off the small ring and realized the chain spotter was not installed. I was told that it couldn't be attached because I don't have a braze on fitting and the clamp used is not compatible with the chain spotter and it's small black positioning bolt adjustment piece. I have the chain spotter assembly in hand, any suggestions or experience mounting the spotter with a clamp set-up would be very mcuh appreciated.
> 
> Cheers C


I buried my question in the post. Did any one bolt thier New 2012 Red FD chain spotter on that used a clamp? I was told only braze on fittings will allow the New FD chain spotter to bolt on properly? New to SRAM Components, any advice appreciated


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## royta (May 24, 2008)

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/sram/sram-admits-defeat-markets-chain-spotter-279517.html

There is a lot of good info in the thread shown above, once you weed through the pot stirrers. 

The chain spotter is available by itself...no need to replace entire derailleur. The chain spotter can be used with a clamp too.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

I have not been able to get the new Red FD to work with an R2C TT shifter and the old Red crank. FYI.


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## rgordin (Oct 22, 2010)

Sram sells a special clamp for the spotter: http://www.theroaddiaries.com/2012/...r-integrated-solution-for-perfect-protection/


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

Have had the new Red FD with my older Red setup for 3 weeks now and everything is working just fine. BUT honestly, do not notice much difference from my previous setup with Force FD. Shifting was pretty precise with both setups and I wasn't dropping my chain with the Force setup either.


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## holsen (Mar 28, 2012)

I was so impressed with the performance of the Red FD, RD, Cassette & Chain that I decided to Do the crank as well. Just to recap - I had a complete Force Set Up and and and switched out the the FD, RD, Cassette & Chain to the new 2012/2013 Red. And the improvements were almost beyond belief. The front shifting became much crisper, I lost almost all of the chain rub and the drive drain (cassette & chain) were whisper quiet. All this with the Force Crank & Shifter. So I swapped out the Crank and put in the new Red last week. Shifting up and down is now lightning fast - it pretty much much instant. But here's the problem All that chain rub on the FD has returned and I'm getting alot of noise out of the cassette again. I've had it into my LBS for fine tuning and tweaking and they just can't dial it in. Has anybody else experienced this? Any ideas how to adjust to get rid of it? The Beauty of the 21012 Red with YAW is the speed and the efficiency (no rub). I'm almost wondering if it's because now the shifters need to go. For sure, the set up of the YAW derailleur is different that any other FD out there and we did get it right with Force, it just seems to be incompatible with the new crank - very strange. Looking forward to any insights. I'll post again when I get it fixed. I'm now obsessed with getting rid of all that rub and noise.


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## jl88s (Aug 1, 2012)

I need your help fellas. I've searched around and can't find anything about this topic..

I'm currently building my first roadie with Sram RED 2011 groupset, Sram Force FD, but without the cranks. So I'm wondering if the new Sram RED 2012-2013 crankset would be compatible with the group I plan on running. 

According to this, the new Sram RED crankset is only compatible with the new RED groupo. I can't see why you wouldn't be able to use the new cranks with the old red group. 

https://brimages.bikeboardmedia.net...2012/02/2012-SRAM-Red-compatibility-chart.jpg


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

it's bad enough when you cross post, but twice in the same section?


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

jl88s said:


> I need your help fellas. I've searched around and can't find anything about this topic..
> 
> I'm currently building my first roadie with Sram RED 2011 groupset, Sram Force FD, but without the cranks. So I'm wondering if the new Sram RED 2012-2013 crankset would be compatible with the group I plan on running.
> 
> ...


Although I can't anwser your question directly b/c I am not running Sram's new crankset, I can tell you this:

On one of my bikes, I am running Sram's entire 2010 Red gruppo with Sram's new front derailleur (yaw) with absolutely no problems. 
On my second bike, I am running Sram's new Red (2013) shifters, FD, and RD with Rotor 3D plus cranks and chainrings with absolutely no problems. 

Both bikes shift smoothly and precisely with KMC 10SLDLC chains. 

I guess my point is this....obviously Sram wants you to purchase their entire gruppo. I've had more than a couple of LBS guys tell me that they don't recommend me using Sram's new FD with my 2010 red gruppo  They really discouraged me from doing so...but when I asked why, they really never gave me a sensible/reasonable answer. 

I know that was a long answer, but I don't see why Sram's new crankset won't work with your existing red gruppo. That's just my opinion of course. Hopefully someone who has done this will respond.


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## holsen (Mar 28, 2012)

jl88s said:


> I need your help fellas. I've searched around and can't find anything about this topic..
> 
> I'm currently building my first roadie with Sram RED 2011 groupset, Sram Force FD, but without the cranks. So I'm wondering if the new Sram RED 2012-2013 crankset would be compatible with the group I plan on running.
> 
> ...


The challenge with the crankset (2013) is that they changed the ramp pins - so the the new DRs work with the old cranks and shifters but the new Crank wont work work with the old Front DR. I was the original poster and I started with the new Front and Rear DR, Chain, and cassette. I've now finished it with the Crankset too and it is MUCH faster front shifting.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

holsen said:


> The challenge with the crankset (2013) is that they changed the ramp pins - so the the new DRs work with the old cranks and shifters but the new Crank wont work work with the old Front DR. I was the original poster and I started with the new Front and Rear DR, Chain, and cassette. I've now finished it with the Crankset too and it is MUCH faster front shifting.


Thanks for the update and clarification. 👍I guess my assumption was incorrect 😞


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

holsen said:


> ...but the new Crank wont work work with the old Front DR...


I haven't yet tried it, and am not really planning to, but I can't imaging that being the case. The pins simply lift and phase the chain between the two rings and have virtually nothing to do with the DR cage.


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## Gwardhana (Sep 2, 2012)

I've got a sram red 2013 shifter, FD, and RD. i am using a THM clavicula crank set. I've been to 3x LBS and none of them could set the FD perfectly. It could shift from 50T chainring to 34T chainring, but not the other way. I was trying to figure it out & check in this threat but still no luck. .???


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## tigerlam92 (Jul 30, 2012)

:thumbsup:


Gwardhana said:


> I've got a sram red 2013 shifter, FD, and RD. i am using a THM clavicula crank set. I've been to 3x LBS and none of them could set the FD perfectly. It could shift from 50T chainring to 34T chainring, but not the other way. I was trying to figure it out & check in this threat but still no luck. .???


Did they install a barrel adjuster, if so you need to adjust that to help upshift. If not as I didn't, make sure you pulled the cable fairly tight. 

Then, very important, when setting the limit screw for the big ring, the shifter should be push all the way while adjusting. This is another key different and will help with the upshift. With the new Yaw, it should not flex back after you release the shifter from the max. So when adjusting the big ring, don't just click over but hold it to the max. That is Sram Yaw instruction. 

cheers
Hugh


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## buggymancan (Jul 5, 2008)

I am looking to set up my CX bike as follows:

New 12' Sram red Ergodynamic Shifters
New 12' Sram Yaw FD
11' Sram red/Black CX Crankset GXP 110 BCD w/ Wickworks compact 34/44 chainrings. 
My questions is will the new 12' Yaw front derailleur play well with the compact chainrings? I am aware that the 12 Sram Exo Crank and rings may be spaced slightly differently than the 11' Red Black, but I understand that it all works, provided one avoids the small- small gear combo. Anyone able to comment on this setup?


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

I'm using '12 shifters and derailleurs and a '11 Sram 975 Quarq crank. It shifts well. It's a bit fiddly to set up so there is no chain rub in normal gears. With 50/34 I can't use the small cog when in the small ring because the chain will rub on the 50t ring on my short wheelbase road race bike. With a 44t it'd probably clear, if you can get the chain to clear the derailleur.


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## specx (Oct 4, 2008)

buggymancan said:


> I am looking to set up my CX bike as follows:
> 
> New 12' Sram red Ergodynamic Shifters
> New 12' Sram Yaw FD
> ...


Did you ever set up your cross rig like this?

I have 2011 Red and looking to to get some Wickwerks rings and was concerned about the current flimsy FD. I had been thinking of going with a Force FD but if '13 Red works as good as others are saying it sounds like it might be worth the extra $$.

Thanks.


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## BigPoser (Jan 11, 2013)

I have a full Apex set up. Would I be able to swap out with some Red gear and will it work?


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## davegregoire (Apr 9, 2012)

Worked for me. I am using yaw stuff mix and match with rival stuff no problem.


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## BigPoser (Jan 11, 2013)

Please forgive my ignorance, but I'm really interested in this and am a little confused about the Red stuff. I know that there is new Red, old Red, and Red Black. 

Which Red is compatible with my Apex for the backwards compatibility? Thanks in advance. 

Chive On


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

BigPoser said:


> Please forgive my ignorance, but I'm really interested in this and am a little confused about the Red stuff. I know that there is new Red, old Red, and Red Black.
> 
> Which Red is compatible with my Apex for the backwards compatibility? Thanks in advance.
> 
> Chive On


All of it.

New Red shifters might not work well with Apex front derailleur, but that's about it.


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## davegregoire (Apr 9, 2012)

I would say the Red Black is no different than the 2011 red, unless I am missing something.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

davegregoire said:


> I would say the Red Black is no different than the 2011 red, unless I am missing something.


It's exactly the same. Except it's Black.


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## Rickard Laufer (Jan 1, 2013)

BigPoser said:


> Please forgive my ignorance, but I'm really interested in this and am a little confused about the Red stuff. I know that there is new Red, old Red, and Red Black.
> 
> Which Red is compatible with my Apex for the backwards compatibility? Thanks in advance.
> 
> Chive On


It's strange perhaps, but my hybrid bike with Apex worked better than my road bike with Rival. The hybrid uses other shifters and i don't know if that is part of it. I road that like crazy until i decided to buy a serious road bike. I thought the road bike fitted with Rival, would be better than Apex on the hybrid, but not so. I changed to Shimano DA-9000 (road bike) which is way more perfect than my Rival was. I tried a new cassette and chain for fun with the Rival groupset, the 1090-OG and 1051 chain. It was a nice cassette but the FD was still what was a bit annoying with Rival (again, perhaps this is due to shifter in conjunction with FD?).
I was in for new Red, but since i guessed Red will go 11 speed 2014 and was told DA-9000 is the best mechanical groupset to this date. I don't really know about that statement, but it is silent and shift very very precise and fast.
I find nothing to complain about. It was win win since i even like Shimanos shifting better than Srams double tap. I have no experience with latest Red though.


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## Dave Try (Apr 10, 2013)

Interested in doing this on my 2012 venge pro that has the 'old' sram red with the exception of the crank/chain ring which is a 53/39 Specialized Pro carbon. 

Anyone see any issues using this with the 2012 FD? 

I wouldn't be doing to the work myself so I'd need to also find a LBS that would be willing to come to the party.


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## vasman (Sep 28, 2013)

I am upgrading from Shimano 105 Shifters/FD/RD/Cassette with an FSA K-Force Light Compact crank and FSA K-Force Light brakes to SRAM RED 2012 (2x10) Shifters/RD while keeping same Crank/Cassette/Brakes. My 3 questions are:

1. Will the FSA brakes be ok with the new SRAM RED Shifters?
2. Will the SRAM RED FD (Yaw) work in my setup with my FSA Crank?
3. Which FD you suggest to use a) keep the 105 5700 FD, b) upgrade to the Dura-Ace 7900 FD, c) upgrade to SRAM RED Yaw FD, d) upgrade to SRAM Force FD?

Many Thanks for any feedback


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

Your old brakes and cranks will work fine.

The Yaw derailleur will work with any SRAM shifter and any crank. I'd either keep your 105 or get a Yaw derailleur. The 105 is as good or better than any compatible front derailleur except for a SRAM Yaw derailleur. Spending money on a non-yaw derailleur when you already have a 105 is wasting money.

7900 FD will NOT work. Different cable pull than SRAM or 105.

As a general comment, there are no real compatibility problems between any two SRAM road parts, and lots of other Shimano, Campy, FSA, random aftermarket brakes, front derailleurs and cranks also work just fine. The real compatibility issues are with mixing any rear shifting components between brands and newer Shimano front shifting.


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## vasman (Sep 28, 2013)

Kontact said:


> Your old brakes and cranks will work fine.
> 
> The Yaw derailleur will work with any SRAM shifter and any crank. I'd either keep your 105 or get a Yaw derailleur. The 105 is as good or better than any compatible front derailleur except for a SRAM Yaw derailleur. Spending money on a non-yaw derailleur when you already have a 105 is wasting money.
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot for the info and reassurance. If there are no big issues with SRAM RED new FD (Yaw) and non new SRAM Crank why there are so many complaints about chain rubbing or not able to shift? This what worries me!

Also noticed that the SRAM Yaw FD does not come as Band On only Braze On so I assume an adapter will be needed


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

Here's some info on Sram Yaw backwards compatibility. And yes, you will need the clamp on adapter that Sram makes for the Yaw derailleur.
It works! We test SRAM Red backwards compatibility - VeloNews.com


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## vasman (Sep 28, 2013)

redondoaveb said:


> Here's some info on Sram Yaw backwards compatibility. And yes, you will need the clamp on adapter that Sram makes for the Yaw derailleur.
> It works! We test SRAM Red backwards compatibility - VeloNews.com


I ve read it quite a few times this article but it never mentions that they tested the following combination (New Shifters+New FD+NOT NEW SRAM CRANK) and worked


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

vasman said:


> Thanks a lot for the info and reassurance. If there are no big issues with SRAM RED new FD (Yaw) and non new SRAM Crank why there are so many complaints about chain rubbing or not able to shift? This what worries me!
> 
> Also noticed that the SRAM Yaw FD does not come as Band On only Braze On so I assume an adapter will be needed


Probably because people aren't following the directions for yaw set up correctly. The new crank has exactly the same spacing as the old one, so blaming the crank is nonsense. 

The new crank is functionally different only in how the ramps and lifters work.


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

I'm running an 11 speed yaw FD with the older Red crankset / Praxis rings (10 speed) and older Red shifters. Works perfect. No rub on any gear combination and shifts are quick and precise.


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## vasman (Sep 28, 2013)

I took the bullet and purchased the SRAM RED FD (Yaw). Let's hope I find a good LBS to install it correctly 

Any tips on how to install it (or pass it on to my LBS) with no chain rub/shift issues would be much appreciated


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

vasman said:


> I took the bullet and purchased the SRAM RED FD (Yaw). Let's hope I find a good LBS to install it correctly
> 
> Any tips on how to install it (or pass it on to my LBS) with no chain rub/shift issues would be much appreciated


What I did was watch some online (youtube) videos for setup and then did minor adjustments to fine tune it. Once you get the initial setup done, the fine tuning is easy.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

vasman said:


> I took the bullet and purchased the SRAM RED FD (Yaw). Let's hope I find a good LBS to install it correctly
> 
> Any tips on how to install it (or pass it on to my LBS) with no chain rub/shift issues would be much appreciated


Watch this. Do what they say. No problem. 
SRAM RED - 2012 Derailleurs Installation and Adjustment - YouTube


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## vasman (Sep 28, 2013)

Thanks a lot guys for all your feedback and help

Will let you know how it worked when I receive and install the gear


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## stunzeed (Jul 27, 2007)

Wanted to revive an old thread for post mortem input.

I am considering running a full 11 speed sram 22 group (prolly new rival or force) but plan to run it 10 speed with a 10 speed cassette. Any idea if that will work?


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

No. The spacing on the 10sp cassette is wider than 11sp. You could tune it so the shifts in the middle of the cassette work ok but the farther you get away from the middle the worse the alignment between the chain and cogs.

You need 10sp shifters to run a 10sp cassette.

If your wheels can't take an 11sp cassette you could make a 10 of 11 system by removing a cog from an 11sp cassette. Obviously you can't do that with the solid block Red cassette. You can use Shimano or a lower end Sram cassette.


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## stunzeed (Jul 27, 2007)

What if I only want to run an 11 speed crankset and derailleurs with 10 speed cassette and shifter


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

That should work fine. The 11sp chainring spacing MAY be slightly narrower. Unlike cassettes there is no standard for that. If it is the difference will be very small as the difference between 10sp and 11sp chains is small.


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