# Riding Etiquette Questions



## cka1971 (Apr 19, 2006)

Yesterday, as I was doing another shakedown ride with my wife, getting familiar with the bike, making some adjustments, etc., two guys whizzed past me. My competitive nature kicked in and I decided to drop my wife and catch them to see whether I could keep up. As I approached them, I realized it might not be cool to come up on their rear without their knowledge. So, I followed them at a distance of about 25-30 feet (5-6 bike lengths). I matched their speed for about 2 miles (22-23 mph - I maxed out at 25.5 trying to catch them :thumbsup: ) and then decided I should wait for my wife. I backed off and slowed down to wait for her.

What is the ettiquette in that situation? Did I do the right thing by not coming up on the guy's back wheel?

On another note, I enjoyed the hell out of pushing along at that speed and can't wait to get back out. Its too bad I need to take the bike to the shop to get a tune up (the shifting is a bit hard, and I fell over at an intersection and I think I wrecked my left pedal).


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## Blue Sugar (Jun 14, 2005)

It's perfectly alright to ride on somebody's wheel, it's called "sucking a wheel" and is an integral part of race tactics and teamwork. I't something you need to get comfortable with if you want to do group rides. If you want them to know you're there, just shout "hello".


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## meathead (May 8, 2006)

yeah, totally ok to be on someone's wheel. Try to feel them out though, be conversational to some degree when you pull up. They could be JAs and act full of themselves when you pull up, or maybe they'll end up being your riding buddies. Either way, if you can keep up, it's ok to stay on their wheel.


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## cka1971 (Apr 19, 2006)

I understand the concept of drafting, but had never really seen it in practice until last night. The guy in the rear was clearly working for less than the guy "pulling".


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## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

rule # 1. NEVER _"drop the wife"_

rule # 2. NOBODY likes a stalker. I could care less if you're right on my wheel, or 5-6 bike lengths behind me. it's irritating as fcuk. ride alongside, say 'hey, do you mind if i join you guys? i've just dropped my wife to bridge up to you, and she's plenty mad, so i have to get as much distance between me and her as i can right now"  chances are they'll say 'sure'.



cka1971 said:


> Yesterday, as I was doing another shakedown ride with my wife, getting familiar with the bike, making some adjustments, etc., two guys whizzed past me. My competitive nature kicked in and I decided to drop my wife and catch them to see whether I could keep up. As I approached them, I realized it might not be cool to come up on their rear without their knowledge. So, I followed them at a distance of about 25-30 feet (5-6 bike lengths). I matched their speed for about 2 miles (22-23 mph - I maxed out at 25.5 trying to catch them :thumbsup: ) and then decided I should wait for my wife. I backed off and slowed down to wait for her.
> 
> What is the ettiquette in that situation? Did I do the right thing by not coming up on the guy's back wheel?
> 
> On another note, I enjoyed the hell out of pushing along at that speed and can't wait to get back out. Its too bad I need to take the bike to the shop to get a tune up (the shifting is a bit hard, and I fell over at an intersection and I think I wrecked my left pedal).


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

*I think Botto's got it right.*

You should be asking questions about marriage etiquette.


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## imetis (Jul 5, 2005)

I'll back up botto as well, on both points. That's the fastest way to get the wife to stop riding with you, and if that doesn't sound like a problem now, keep it up, and remember these actions when she starts questioning your purchases and where your priorities fall.

On the other point, drafting is great, if you leave with the group. If you catch a group while you're alone, don't just latch on or follow at a distance, introduce yourself and ask if they mind. You don't know what their trying to do, and you might be seriously screwing with their training. 

Another thing to consider: you don't know these people or how they ride. When drafting you are dependant on the people in front of you to hold their line, call out obstacles, and not lock their brakes unexpectedly. There is a level of trust that goes there, and I personally don't like to stick too close to a wheel I don't know.


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## cka1971 (Apr 19, 2006)

Except for the marriage counseling  , all good points to remember as I LEARN the proper etiquette. See, that's why I dropped back from them a few bike lengths. I wasn't sure how close to get - nor was I sure how long I'd stay with them, as I did need to wait up for the wife. Next time, I'll ride up and say hello.


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## team_sheepshead (Jan 17, 2003)

This is a tough one. Yes, definitely ask first. It may seem a bit awkward at 25 mph, so roll up behind them, wait until it's safe to pass. Say "On your left" and move up alongside them. Ask "Do you mind if I work with you guys?" 

Be prepared to be told "No." I know that when I'm trading pulls with a buddy or two, I don't want a stranger in the line. Better yet, if you enjoy this type of riding, check with a local club to see if they offer rides for people like you. Good luck and ride safe.


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## Blue Sugar (Jun 14, 2005)

OK I've got to make a few comments. Some of you seem to be confusing cycling etiquette with everyday etiquette, and the two are completely different. "Sucking a wheel", as it's affectionately referred, is not at all like hovering too close to the person in front of you when you're lined up at the bank. It's not only accepted, but expected. It's the reason why a group can move faster than a single rider. If you ride with a group, you'll be expected to do it, an to know how to do it. And you need to tolerate people doing it to you, ar don't do a group ride.

As for you're wife, you didn't really drop her, you just parted company for a few minutes, and that's also ok. It's alright to charge a hill, sprint to a townline sign, something like that- you've just got to wait. We ride for fun, and doing those things is, well, fun. Now, if she'd "sucked your wheel" she might have been able to stay with you.


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## cka1971 (Apr 19, 2006)

Blue Sugar said:


> As for you're wife, you didn't really drop her, you just parted company for a few minutes, and that's also ok. It's alright to charge a hill, sprint to a townline sign, something like that- you've just got to wait. We ride for fun, and doing those things is, well, fun. Now, if she'd "sucked your wheel" she might have been able to stay with you.


Yea, that's it. We "parted company."


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## physasst (Oct 1, 2005)

team_sheepshead said:


> This is a tough one. Yes, definitely ask first. It may seem a bit awkward at 25 mph, so roll up behind them, wait until it's safe to pass. Say "On your left" and move up alongside them. Ask "Do you mind if I work with you guys?"
> 
> Be prepared to be told "No." I know that when I'm trading pulls with a buddy or two, I don't want a stranger in the line. Better yet, if you enjoy this type of riding, check with a local club to see if they offer rides for people like you. Good luck and ride safe.


I agree, join a local club, chances are they have all sorts of riders that go out on group rides, some of them faster and training rides, some of them slower and social rides. With our group, some guys can be kinda leery of someone unknown joining, if they don't know what they are doing and take you down by clipping your rear wheel, they'd be mighty ticked off. Better to join a club and learn all of the facets of group riding, pacelines, rotating, echelons, etc.


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## Argentius (Aug 26, 2004)

*You must ask*

Running in paceline properly requires less than 6 inches between wheels. It's a learned skill. Especially since you're new to the sport, you probably don't -- can't be expected to -- know how to do this properly. 

If I'm running a quick paceline with a teammate or two, I wouldn't want a squirrely stranger hopping in.

That said, if I'm just cruising along, I'm happy to have whoever wants to suck a wheel.

So, you've gotta ask.

But, I'd advise reading a book on cycling / racing or, better yet, joining and practicing with a club, before you try to start taking pulls, etc., so you learn how it works. It's not all that complicated, and it makes cycling a ton of fun.

There's nothing as cool as sitting in the wheels at 50k/hr without even being in the hurt!


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

botto said:


> rule # 1. NEVER _"drop the wife"_


As a wife, I'll go out on a limb and say most of us can take getting dropped. But for the singles out there...

I was on one of my rides a few months ago and passed a foursome - two young men and two young women on their bikes. The men were on mountain bikes and looked like they rode together quite a bit. The women looked like newbies. One was on a comfort bike, the other on a Trek road bike. 

I stopped to take a break at the bottom of a hill to remove my jacket and such, and watched as the four of them made the turn where I was and started up the hill. 

I started the climb and passed the two women who were getting off their bikes to walk the hill looking digusted and hopeless as the two males pulled away from them in the distance. As I rode the climb I glanced back once of twice to see how those girls were doing. Eventually they disappeared from my line of sight. I passed the two guys as I got to the top of the hill. I thought about saying something but didn't (I was too out of breath ). 

If I were to have said something I would have told them, "If you guys have the faintest hope of getting any "action" tonight, you guys need to go back down there and do the hill _with _those girls." 

Gentlemen, any wife worth her salt can take getting dropped. But if you want to cash in the investment you make in a date, never, ever, _ever _drop a girlfriend.


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## dogmeat (Sep 26, 2005)

*Recap and a few thoughts*

Not cool to drop the wife. Not cool to drop any partner unless everyone knows the deal beforehand.

If you can catch them riding smooth and safe, it's up to you to stay out of their way. It's nice to say "hi- I just gotta chase, you know?" If I'm really blasted, and just trying to get home, and people pass me just a little faster- "Hi, I'm really hurting. Can I hook in as long as I can hold on?" Of course, your wife was probably feeling like that, and you dropped her like a banana peel. What goes around, comes around.

It's not a race. Just keep in mind that anything less than 20 miles, and you better have some kind of excuse- that's a ridiculously short ride- too short for even a recovery spin unless you are injured, maybe. Some people are out 25 miles, some are out for 60+ after work. You don't know what people did yesterday, or their goals for today. If people are riding around your pace, say hello! If they are way too fast, let 'em rock and roll. If they are too slow, pass nice, say hi. If you are too winded to talk, you are probably not thinking well and are riding wobbly and not in shape to ride with strangers, as a rule of thumb. ps- take care at intersections- you might just fall over. Laying on the ground, it's customary to say "I meant to do that." It's also possible to misjudge distances and time to get in to a pedal, and get smacked by a car- for which I have no funny comment.

Aerobars usually mean "triathlete" and those people do not like to play roadie games like riding in packs, so they often wobble unpredictably. Fear the slow rider in aerobars! Flat bars mean "mountain biker" and those people can have legs of steel and cast a wind shadow like a UPS truck, to say they wobble unpredictably is an understatement. Fear them. Tee shirts are another danger sign.

Here is an odd one- a guy on one of the better local teams catches me on the flats, but I hold my pace and make him suffer up the last hill, riding well off to the side. At the top of the hill, he pulls 8 feet to the left; I assume he's turning left, so say "hi" and pass well to the right. He slides back in, puts his hand on my shoulder, and strikes up a conversation... hand on shoulder while I give him a little pull. I assumed this to be complementary... but it was a little weird.

'Meat


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## team_sheepshead (Jan 17, 2003)

Great post. Speaking of dropping women...I was the "leader" of our little group on a charity ride last year. Six strong guys and two not-so-strong women. The women were really suffering on the hills. But we never dropped them by more than 50 meters. On the hills, we'd top out, then ride back down and pace them up at 7 mph.

Finally, toward the end of the ride, some new guys joined our group. On the next hill, they saw the women were struggling. One of them said, "Need a push?" and pushed one of the women up the hill. When they caught up to me, one woman glared at me and said, "You mean you could've been pushing us all along?!?!"



il sogno said:


> As a wife, I'll go out on a limb and say most of us can take getting dropped. But for the singles out there...
> 
> I was on one of my rides a few months ago and passed a foursome - two young men and two young women on their bikes. The men were on mountain bikes and looked like they rode together quite a bit. The women looked like newbies. One was on a comfort bike, the other on a Trek road bike.
> 
> ...


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## cka1971 (Apr 19, 2006)

team_sheepshead said:


> Great post. Speaking of dropping women...I was the "leader" of our little group on a charity ride last year. Six strong guys and two not-so-strong women. The women were really suffering on the hills. But we never dropped them by more than 50 meters. On the hills, we'd top out, then ride back down and pace them up at 7 mph.
> 
> Finally, toward the end of the ride, some new guys joined our group. On the next hill, they saw the women were struggling. One of them said, "Need a push?" and pushed one of the women up the hill. When they caught up to me, one woman glared at me and said, "You mean you could've been pushing us all along?!?!"



LMAO. That's something my wife would say.


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## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

Blue Sugar said:


> "Sucking a wheel", as it's affectionately referred, is not at all like hovering too close to the person in front of you when you're lined up at the bank. It's not only accepted, but expected. It's the reason why a group can move faster than a single rider. If you ride with a group, you'll be expected to do it, an to know how to do it. And you need to tolerate people doing it to you, ar don't do a group ride.


were you reading the same post? the OP dropped his wife, then hung behind the other riders, w/o saying anything. he wasn't riding WITH THEM! btw - thanks for the lesson on the benifits of riding wth a group  



Blue Sugar said:


> As for you're wife, you didn't really drop her, you just parted company for a few minutes, and that's also ok.


IMO it really doesn't matter if it was his wife or a friend. it was rude of him to drop his riding partner to try and keep up with the big boys.


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## cka1971 (Apr 19, 2006)

Is there an "ignore user" function here?

EDIT: Yes there is! And it works.


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## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

il sogno said:


> As a wife, I'll go out on a limb and say most of us can take getting dropped.


as i wrote in my reply to Blue Sugar, I don't think it's relevant whether it's your wife, or your buddy. if you start a ride with a friend, you end the ride with the friend. You don't drop them to see if you can keep up with the big boys


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## cka1971 (Apr 19, 2006)

Botto:

MYOB and keep the value judgments to yourself. And quit taking yourself and this so damned seriously. This isn't like diving where leaving your buddy is dangerous. And she isn't 7 years old wandering around the Smithsonian Musuem alone. 

I didn't abandon her on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere. I pulled ahead for a few clicks. Get a grip. 

I can just see it now. You are the "Dwight" of your office. Drunk on the "power" of a fake title like Assistant to the Regional Manager. 

Do me a favor and stay outta my threads. I dont care if I start one about some arcane topic about which you are the last living expert on earth. 

C


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## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

cka1971 said:


> Is there an "ignore user" function here?


probably.

btw - if you don't like hearing the truth, don't bother asking a question next time.


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## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

cka1971 said:


> Do me a favor and stay outta my threads. I dont care if I start one about some arcane topic about which you are the last living expert on earth.


LMAO! 

Fred, 

You're the one that's taking this TOO seriously. I wasn't even replying to you, so get over it.

BTW In case you hadn't noticed: this isn't email, it's a public forum, therefore "You're threads" are visible to all, and I'll reply where and when i see fit.


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

cka1971 said:


> Botto:
> 
> MYOB and keep the value judgments to yourself. And quit taking yourself and this so damned seriously. This isn't like diving where leaving your buddy is dangerous. And she isn't 7 years old wandering around the Smithsonian Musuem alone.
> 
> ...



Dude, you asked for opinions. If you can't take the heat, don't ask for 'em. I too thought abandoning a riding partner to join in a manly-man chase down seemed rude, but didn't have a strong enough opinion to post, until I say your ad hominem attack on someone who just gave their two cents.


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

I don't know about wheelsucking being "expected" outside of races or organized events. If I'm out riding and a total stranger takes up draft position on my rear wheel, I can tell you for sure that I wouldn't like it at all unless they asked or said something.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

I'm going to break with opinion here and say that it is kind of rude to sprint up and draft strangers out on the road. During a race it is of course expected. During an organized ride it is ok, although you'd better be willing to put in some work. On the open road? Not really ok. The problem is that your drafting behind someone else puts some responsibility on their shoulders. They now have to go farther around road hazards, point out things that you might hit, and they can't slow suddenly for fear that you might hit them. For sure, if you hit someone with you front wheel you are going down a lot harder than they are, but you are still putting responsibilty into their hands. They may not feel like dealing with that at the moment.

So the polite thing to do is to come up along side and start a conversation. All it takes is saying hello. I'm litterally the world's worst small talk maker, but I have no problem chatting with people on the road. It'll take a few sentences to figure out if the other person is willing to work with you, or let you take their wheel, or ride alongside and chat. I've had good riding sessions with people I didn't talk to at all, just communicated with a couple hand gestures.

Oh, and if you sit in on someone without asking, for sure don't attack them. That's a total ******** move, and you are going to look like a complete tool if they catch and drop you. Obvoiusly in a race it's different, although you'll still be a tool if you get caught and dopped by the guy you attacked.


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## amygdala (Dec 28, 2005)

i'm with botto and jtolleson on this one

it is a public forum, he asked for advice and got it.

i find it very irritating when guys hang on my wheel, lurking behind me without saying anything. aside from being impolite, i have no idea who the guy is and when he's going to plow into my rear wheel. i've made a lot of friends out on the road. guys i now ride with regularly i met out on the road, striking up a conversation with, etc etc. I find it so stupid when people feel they have to "catch" other riders. aside from just being retarded and immature, we're all out there doing different workouts on different days. i might pass a pro rider out doing an easy recovery spin if i was in the middle of doing some high intensity intervals.... anyway, you get the idea.


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## GBNova (Apr 29, 2006)

What's this about dropping women? I'd rather chase them.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

When I drop my wife to chase down somebody, I don't stay away for long. I'll always slow down, or even stop completely, to let my wife catch up,,,after bidding my quarry a "Good Afternoon," of course.

As for wheel-sucking and wheel-suckers, I personally find it a compliment when somebody wants to suck my wheel. Then again, when somebody blows by me with no other greeting than a sneer, I then do my best to wheel suck them. I bid them hello. If they return my greeting, I'll drop back. If they ignore me, or if they can't get me off their wheel, I start to insult them,,,naturally making sure they aren't going to be able to touch my front wheel and cause me to crash. It's fun watching steam come out of their ears. It's fun being mean to meanies.


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## John Nelson (Mar 10, 2006)

Maybe I'm not very observant, but when somebody sits on my wheel, I often don't even know they're there for a while. Therefore I'm not too careful about holding my line, steadying my speed, pointing out obstacles, or clearing my sinuses. For all these reasons, I'd prefer that they make some kind of noise..

On the other hand, when I grab someone else's wheel, I have no idea how long I might be able to hang on. It might only be a minute, so I'm not really all that anxious to strike up a relationship that I may not be able to continue.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

People, people, people (meaning husbands). You should not drop your wife. You should TOW your wife in a fine lead out up to the people you are chasing and then let HER pass them at speed once you have done the work for her. Now THAT is fun!

Bonus, if you MTB let your wife suck the wheel of a guy until he stacks from trying to drop her. That's fun too.

And doing things this way makes for better post ride conversations, trust me on that.


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## Blue Sugar (Jun 14, 2005)

*A few last thoughts......*

CKA 1971- let's keep it civil, ok? This is not a place to trade barbs or insults. And it's a public forum, you have no right to try and keep people off. You do have a right to ignore them, and I suggest that you excersize that right. It will allow you to maximize the benefits of this forum. 

When it comes to riding with your wife, the key is make it enjoyable for you both, and that means giving both of you some freedom. The type of freedom that lets you attack a hill now and then- "honey I'd like to work this hill, see you at the top". A good woman will understand. And she should be free to do things like stop and check out a shop window. These freedoms, used responsibly, will allow both of you to maximize your enjoyment in riding together. We can all trade comments until the end of time, but this is the right way to do it. Now let's all accept that and move on. 

And as far as society's expectations, you need to regard your wife as a goddess, but treat her like a child. For although she's a strong, smart (way smarter than you), self-determining woman, she can't be left alone for even a few minutes, and doing so makes you an uncaring, unthinking lout. It's just the way it is, get used to it. Ignore society's expectations and just do what's fair and right.

And lastly, the rest of you should check out the woman's forum on MTBR.com. All kinds of man-bashing, heaven-on-earth for some of you!


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## meathead (May 8, 2006)

LOL...wow man, botto ddin't even say anything offensive. That was a total guilty conscience thing you had going there...maybe you shouldn't have dropped her. 

People have made some good points. One thing I would add is that when you are riding alone (no wife to worry about), it is inevitable that you will come upon the occasional group of tools. Either they'll be headed in the other direction and they will refuse to wave back at you for some reason, or you'll catch a group of not so fast dudes who aren't on a paceline and they will make it clear they have no desire to talk to you. The best thing to do is to not get offended. Just try to time your ride so you can run into the same group of guys going in the same direction as them and blow their freakin doors off. When you pass, say something pleasant..."beautiful day for it, eh?"...of course be sure to save up some breath so you can say it as though you aren't even working. If you can keep going, keep going. If not, start making as many turns as possible and pray they don't catch you and return the favor. Next time you pass headed in the opposite direction, you may well at least get a hand half on the hoods, fingers in the air wave.


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## jimbach (Jul 5, 2006)

Hey, I'm a new member here, and thought this would be a good enough place to introduce myself.

I pretty much always ride alone. I haven't participated in any group rides or anything of that nature, since I've only been riding (for exercise at least) for a couple of months - I "commute" to work on my bike. I put commute in quotation marks since it's about a mile from my front door to my office...

At any rate, I wanted to discuss this etiquette thing a bit. I confess that I am guilty of "wheel sucking" from time to time, but it's mainly due to the circumstances based on where I ride, specifically, a local bike path. Since this is a multi-use path, I will often come up behind another rider and hang on to their back wheel for a period of time until it's safe to pass. Either that, or I'll back off and let the distance between our bikes grow. Normally the longest I will maintain a close distance between a rider or group of riders is a quarter mile or so. I never engage the other rider(s) in conversation, although I make them aware when/if I intend to pass. I see nothing wrong with this behavior. Am I wrong in thinking this?


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## saccycling (Sep 30, 2004)

When someone gets right on my tail and I don't know them. It pisses me off. A couple of bike lengths is ok though.


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## jimbach (Jul 5, 2006)

saccycling said:


> When someone gets right on my tail and I don't know them. It pisses me off. A couple of bike lengths is ok though.


At my level of experience, a couple of bike lengths constitutes "right on their tail".


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## Doggity (Mar 10, 2006)

Damn!....I'm learning a lot. Guess I'm more of a noob than I thought. 20 miles is a 'ridiculously short ride, unless you're injured?' That's all I have TIME for, workdays! A 'tee shirt is a warning sign'? Well, OK....guess my lack of roadie credentials is really showing. But why would I need a cycling jersey on such 'a ridiculously short ride', pray tell? I'm not carrying food, or my .45....<p>I knew about speaking as I passed somebody, and letting 'em know where I am. But I can't even conceive how to push somebody-I'd be too worried about tangling and wrecking us both to even get that close, assuming I knew how. I don't ever suck anyone's wheel for the same reason. Think I'm gonna continue being a lone rider, except for my wife...and I won't leave her in the dust either. I guess this explains why my averages are lower-18mph by myself.


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## rizorith (Aug 4, 2006)

This is a great thread for the noobs. I don't even have a bike yet and I'm learning a lot. Ok a bit off topic but I keep hearing that if you rub tires or bump into the person in front/back of you - you ARE going down.

Is this pretty much a sure thing or does it have to be a pretty hard impact. I kinda figured there was a certain amount of bumping that may happen when people are riding together and that usually no one is going down because of it.


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## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

I'm embarrassed to say I've rubbed tires with someone (riding close behind 'em on a slow climb) and stayed upright. 

If you are the person in FRONT, there's much less risk. Back wheel doesn't pivot and is bearing most of your weight. But if your front wheel makes contact it is much easier for it to force the bars to turn, etc. It does not have to be a particularly hard impact.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*The odds*



rizorith said:


> This is a great thread for the noobs. I don't even have a bike yet and I'm learning a lot. Ok a bit off topic but I keep hearing that if you rub tires or bump into the person in front/back of you - you ARE going down.
> 
> Is this pretty much a sure thing or does it have to be a pretty hard impact. I kinda figured there was a certain amount of bumping that may happen when people are riding together and that usually no one is going down because of it.


Experienced riders are more likely to escape this fate, and new riders can just get lucky. However, the odds are not in your favor if you are the guy in back. Just watch the Tour de France coverage - THEY go down when they touch wheels, and it's not the guy in front.


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## Mark McM (Jun 18, 2005)

*Wheel contact*



rizorith said:


> This is a great thread for the noobs. I don't even have a bike yet and I'm learning a lot. Ok a bit off topic but I keep hearing that if you rub tires or bump into the person in front/back of you - you ARE going down.


If everyone knows what they are doing, and everyone is paying attention, there shouldn't be any touching of tires (or very rarely, anyway). Unfortunately, not everyone knows what they are doing, and not everyone is always paying attention, so it does happen from time to time.

Bicycles remain upright and balanced by the rider continuously steering the front wheel to keep the bicycle under their center of gravity (this is somewhat analogous to how a person balancing a broom on the palm of their hand continuously moves their hand to keep their hand under the broom's center of gravity). If a rider bumps their front wheel into another rider's rear wheel, they either have their steering bumped to the wrong direction, or at least momentarily lose their ability to be able to steer to maintain balance, so they are likely to go down. A rider who has their rear wheel bumped is less likely to go down, because they still have the ability to maintain their balance by steering their front wheel. However, if a front wheel bump is inevitably, there are techniques that can be used to remain upright, such as after contact is made momentarily twisting the front wheel toward the other rider, using the front wheel to push off the rear wheel, and then steering away from the wheel only after their momentum has been shifted away from the other rider.



rizorith said:


> Is this pretty much a sure thing or does it have to be a pretty hard impact. I kinda figured there was a certain amount of bumping that may happen when people are riding together and that usually no one is going down because of it.


When people ride in close proximity, there will be occasion contact between riders. Bumping shoulders generally doesn't cause a problem, but bumping front wheels or handlebars should try to be avoided since control of the front wheel is necessary for remaining upright. If some kind of contact can not be avoided, experienced riders will protect their front wheels and handlebars by leaning their bodies into the other rider, rather than allowing wheel/handlebar contact.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

Mark McM said:


> I However, if a front wheel bump is inevitably, there are techniques that can be used to remain upright, such as after contact is made momentarily twisting the front wheel toward the other rider, using the front wheel to push off the rear wheel, and then steering away from the wheel only after their momentum has been shifted away from the other rider..



If the bottom of the front wheel is in contact with the rear of the rider ahead, it is ok. The tires will just rub. If the top of the front wheel touches, as it will if the rider behind is leaning into the rider ahead, the rider behind is instantly ejected over the bars as his/her front wheel is stopped dead. Having been there I can tell you this is not something you want to try out at speed.

If your front wheel's going to cross with someone's rear, lean the bike away. You can still steer the bike but its got to be leaned away from the wheel or you are going to be in a world of hurt.

This sort of thing isn't a move that beginners, or most experienced racers for that matter, typically do.


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## Scuzzo (Jul 21, 2006)

its fine to grab a wheel and draft, but announce your intentions is all. "mind is i grab a wheel?" if choose to just suck wheel and not say a word its kinda weird for the fellow up front cause in my group if you draft you should call traffic ie "Car Back" just as the fellow infront says "Bump" or "HOLE" "GLASS" "DOG UP" "TRACKS" and all the other joys of the road. 99% of the time your always welcomed. at least thats my experience..


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## mkerker (Aug 10, 2006)

*Similar question, reverse situation*

First off, I am very new to road cycling, coming form a mountain bike and hybrid background (1980’s and 90’s) and a significant time away from cycling. I have found lurking these boards has been extremely helpful, encouraging, and at times depressing as most of your skills are so far ahead of where am currently.

I live in a rather hilly area of my town. So much so that experienced riders come to my neighborhood to work on climbing. I have been working very hard on climbing twice a week and riding in a relatively flat area other days to improve my stamina, riding skills, get more saddle time, and to recover.

So, I am on a recovery ride the other night after finally conquering a hill I have never been able to climb. Just puttering along on a relatively flat long stretch (around 15 mph) when a group of club riders comes up behind me. I mover as far over to the right of the bike lane as possible, try to hold my line, and wait for them to pass. They were right on my rear end but would not go around me (no traffic and plenty of room). If they knew how inexperienced I am, they surely would have not felt comfortable being so close (I am still prone to erratic behavior, sometimes for fun or just trying to get a better feel for my new bike). I decided the best strategy at this point was to run away (silly rabbit that I am). I sped up, as no surprise so did they. The pry instinct is strong! Finally, I put about two to three blocks between us. I turned a corner, stopped at an intersection, and took a water break. Along comes the group and one of them says to me “I knew you could not keep it up” Rude remark from a bunch of 30 year olds to man in his fifties.

My question is this: how do you politely let someone or a group know you do not want to have them draft off you (although at 5’8’’ and 140 lbs. I not sure how much draft I can provide!)? 

Sorry for the long post.


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*I still want to know...*



cka1971 said:


> Yesterday, as I was doing another shakedown ride with my wife,
> ).



how does one "shakedown" his wife on a ride...? :idea:


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## azcycle (Jan 24, 2006)

It's all just personal preference really. Just this morning, I passed a guy on the morning commute and said "Hi" as I passed. He didn't hesitate to hop on my rear wheel. I pulled him for a few city blocks until we got to a wider bus lane, then he pulled alongside and started a conversation.

Personally, I take it as a compliment if someone thinks I'm fast enough to hop on for a while. LOL


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## azcycle (Jan 24, 2006)

mkerker said:


> My question is this: how do you politely let someone or a group know you do not want to have them draft off you (although at 5’8’’ and 140 lbs. I not sure how much draft I can provide!)?


I just wave them by... if that doesn't work, shout over your shoulder that you're not comfortable pulling the group. If THAT doesn't work, start farting.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

mkerker,

They should have paced right by giving you plenty of room and said hi to boot. Not being there it's difficult to offer advise, but slowing down just a bit might make them go around. If your still surrounded by the club riders while doing a track stand then I think it's ok to ask them just WTF is going on. You shouldn't have to slow down in this case, but due to the deliverance style riding the club was exuding I think I would have tried this. Actually, the more I think about your situation the more bizzare I think it is. Any chance there is more to the story? 

wood


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## mkerker (Aug 10, 2006)

Woodys, I agree it was strange. I did slow down and so did they. I was just minding my own business, enjoying a nice easy ride. I alway try to stay out of the way of others. I'm used to getting passed, happens all the time. Ususally folks are very friendly about it and we exchange greetings. When I pass someone I always announce my intention, go pretty wide, and acknowledge their existence. I thought that was the way to do it.

This was just a really odd event. I am not going to let it bother me. Thanks for the feedback.

Maybe I looked like and rabbit and they wanted something to chase. It is Texas and folks do love to hunt


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## wilier (Mar 16, 2002)

botto said:


> rule # 1. NEVER _"drop the wife"
> _


_

Gotta agree with that one - Don't drop the wife - I tried getting my wife out a few times but it's apparent I'm not even putting out an effort when riding with her. Even if I were to not complain a single word, she feels like she's holding me back. I'd give anything to just ride around the block a couple times with her every now and again.



botto said:



rule # 2. NOBODY likes a stalker. I could care less if you're right on my wheel, or 5-6 bike lengths behind me. it's irritating as fcuk. ride alongside, say 'hey, do you mind if i join you guys? i've just dropped my wife to bridge up to you, and she's plenty mad, so i have to get as much distance between me and her as i can right now"  chances are they'll say 'sure'.

Click to expand...

I guess I agree with that too. Don't just say hello. Always pull up and say "mind if I tag along for a bit" or something like that._


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## wilier (Mar 16, 2002)

First: Congrats on getting up the climb.

Second: I find it odd that a group of cyclists would slow down to 15 mph and just hang behind you.

Third: The (near) universal signal to tell someone to pull through is a wag of the elbow. I generally use the side I want them to pass on, so if you're in the shoulder, I'll throw my left elbow out a couple inches. At least in So Cal people know what this means. If that does not work - just yell out and tell them to pass. If they still don't yell out that you're a newer rider and they are freaking you out. 

Last: Yeah - you're not much of a draft - be happy about it.


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## Mdeth1313 (Nov 1, 2001)

I know everyone has an opinion on the wheel sucking-- you're entitled to them. I've found if I catch up w/ someone and their pace is something I'm interested in doing I'll either come up behind and let them know I'm there or pull around in front and see if they're interested in picking up my wheel and then work together.
Theres always the option of slowing down or dropping someone (this works both ways).
A buddy of mine doesnt like people hopping on his wheel and I've watched him drop them like a ton of bricks- he can, so he does- if they can hang, he'll work w/ them, but often times there's no conversation about it.
I've had people come up behind me and sit on my wheel when I'm at mile 90 of a solo century- usually at that point I've started popping GU's and once the caffine kicks in, all hell breaks loose
seriously--
If you are going to ride up on someone's wheel, do let them know you're there- for your safety and theirs- otherwise it depends on who is there. What happens will depend on your and their abilities and the a--hole factor (that applies to all parties involved). Try not to take it personally- if you're inexperienced, its a learning thing.


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