# Lance Disrespecting Contador



## phazelag (Sep 1, 2008)

Lance's 3rd place is amazing. But I think he has shown a lack of respect for Contador, implying this morning that he left him hanging a few times. Lance would have been worse trying to win. And no one mentions how it must have been for Contador to sign a contract with Astana then win the tour for them, then not be allowed to defend it because of a drugy team mate, then Lance shows up and says now its the LA show.

Contador has expressed frustration in the media but in what I have read from Contador he has done a better job not disrespecting Lance than the other way around. Contador has said many times how much he looks up to Lance after reading his book during his recovery.

I think Lance is showing a little bit too much that for him, its all about him!

Z


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

Oh.. give the old man a break. He's feeling left out, but he also speaks sense. Watched Stage 17? Its a far stretch to say that Astana would have eventually swept the podium, but that attack took away any possible chance. Anyway, its sad to see an old man not just retire gracefully as a champion and a legend.


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## Kevin_in_SB (Mar 7, 2009)

Damn get off of Lance already you all need to just shut up.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

phazelag said:


> Lance's 3rd place is amazing. But I think he has shown a lack of respect for Contador, implying this morning that he left him hanging a few times. Lance would have been worse trying to win. And no one mentions how it must have been for Contador to sign a contract with Astana then win the tour for them, then not be allowed to defend it because of a drugy team mate, then Lance shows up and says now its the LA show.
> 
> Contador has expressed frustration in the media but in what I have read from Contador he has done a better job not disrespecting Lance than the other way around. Contador has said many times how much he looks up to Lance after reading his book during his recovery.
> 
> ...


I think this belongs in the Dope forum-----for several reasons!


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## phazelag (Sep 1, 2008)

I watched stage 17 and it was clear Kloden was done and Bruyneel gave him the go ahead. Levi has said that Contador and Kloden both communicate in english and dont always understand each other. Contador said he thought Kloden said he could make it and you could see he was immediately looking for him and worried after the attack just as he said in the post race interview.


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## moonstation2000 (Sep 5, 2008)

I agree with the OP. But at least LA is not as bad as the announcers, who said that AC doesn't have the intelligence to put together a good team for next year!!\

Couldn't believe they said that.


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## Christine (Jul 23, 2005)

What do they mean about "Contador not having the discipline to select a team...."??


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## phazelag (Sep 1, 2008)

SwiftSolo said:


> I think this belongs in the Dope forum-----for several reasons!


 My point is not about doping its about showing a respect even if you hate the guy and not being a poor loser.


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## phazelag (Sep 1, 2008)

Contador is young and he probably is driven more on emotion than wisdom, but that doesnt mean is he dumb. If it wasnt for Carmichael, Bob Roll, and Bruyneel where would lance have been? We wouldnt even know his name right now. Contador just needs some good people around him are loyal to him and have some leadership skills.


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

phazelag said:


> I watched stage 17 and it was clear Kloden was done and Bruyneel gave him the go ahead. Levi has said that Contador and Kloden both communicate in english and dont always understand each other. Contador said he thought Kloden said he could make it and you could see he was immediately looking for him and worried after the attack just as he said in the post race interview.



I don't know why Bruyneel denied that he gave Contador the ok to attack. Anyway, we won't know the truth.


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

phazelag said:


> Contador is young and he probably is driven more on emotion than wisdom, but that doesnt mean is he dumb. If it wasnt for *Michele Ferrari*, Bob Roll, and Bruyneel where would lance have been? We wouldnt even know his name right now. Contador just needs some good people around him are loyal to him and have some leadership skills.


There, I fixed it for you.


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## phazelag (Sep 1, 2008)

rogger said:


> There, I fixed it for you.


thanks


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## Time2ride (Apr 12, 2009)

Kevin_in_SB said:


> Damn get off of Lance already you all need to just shut up.


Ditto!

In most of the interviews, Lance is always the one put on the spot and asked about the tension between the two riders. How come they don't ask Alberto? What that does is draw all the attention to Lance as being the problem.

So what went on behind the scenes with the team, stays with the team. Let's just give the greatest athlete in the world the credit that he deserves and leave it at that. Nuff said!


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Missed the interview. Where did Lance disrespect Contador or leave him hanging?
I didn't get to see the podium presentation.


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## husonfirst (Jul 15, 2006)

moonstation2000 said:


> I agree with the OP. But at least LA is not as bad as the announcers, who said that AC doesn't have the intelligence to put together a good team for next year!!\
> 
> Couldn't believe they said that.


I caught that too. Unbelievable.


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## phazelag (Sep 1, 2008)

It was in the morning prerace interview with lance when he said he didnt go to the celebration dinner with the team he said there was a few times were he was left hanging tactically.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

phazelag said:


> It was in the morning prerace interview with lance when he said he didnt go to the celebration dinner with the team he said there was a few times were he was left hanging tactically.


Again, you're forming a new pro team, your new sponsor is going to give you a $15 million check to fund the operation, that sponsor invites you to dinner in Avignon, you go to dinner with your sponsor. Simple as that.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

phazelag said:


> It was in the morning prerace interview with lance when he said he didnt go to the celebration dinner with the team he said there was a few times were he was left hanging tactically.



Maybe Evans and Lance can get together and ***** about how their teammates let them down together.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

phazelag said:


> It was in the morning prerace interview with lance when he said he didnt go to the celebration dinner with the team he said there was a few times were he was left hanging tactically.


Well, Contador did "leave him" a few times.


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## izzyfly (Jul 10, 2009)

32and3cross said:


> Maybe Evans and Lance can get together and ***** about how their teammates let them down together.


Pinnacle of childishness (I meant the comment).


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

phazelag said:


> Contador has expressed frustration in the media but in what I have read from Contador he has done a better job not disrespecting Lance than the other way around. Contador has said many times how much he looks up to Lance after reading his book during his recovery.
> 
> I think Lance is showing a little bit too much that for him, its all about him!
> 
> Z



It's no secret LA and The Flea won't be having a love child together anytime soon. But they do play nice on occasion. 

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jFa1M-4e6-Ibh2-coLreo0hIRcEQD99LN4I80


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

fornaca68 said:


> Again, you're forming a new pro team, your new sponsor is going to give you a $15 million check to fund the operation, that sponsor invites you to dinner in Avignon, you go to dinner with your sponsor. Simple as that.


Respectfully disagree. I assume his new sponsors are aware that he is on a team that's participating in a race right now, and I would expect that they will expect the courtesy of him acting like he is a member of Team Radio Shack next year when he is on that team. I kind of doubt there was a chance of them pulling sponsorship if he didn't have dinner with them the night his team sews up first and third in the race. 

Maybe he might have tried to find time to celebrate with and thank Popo, Zubeldia, Rast and Kloden, among others, for dragging his old ass to third place, whatever the failed result of his egotistical mutiny attempt? 

It was a petulant bush-league move no matter which shade of rose the glasses are that you're looking through.


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## OES (Jan 23, 2002)

jptaylorsg said:


> It was a petulant bush-league move no matter which shade of rose the glasses are that you're looking through.


I'm not singling you out, but you're here today and vocal.

Tell, me please, if there is one specific thing Lance could do right? The Lance-bashers are kinda like the Bush-bashers. Amazing how one human being, 24/7, does EVERYTHING wrong. So I'm trying to extract one good thing we can go home with here, about Lance. No?


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> It's no secret LA and The Flea won't be having a love child together anytime soon. But they do play nice on occasion.
> 
> http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jFa1M-4e6-Ibh2-coLreo0hIRcEQD99LN4I80


The funniest part is that you're so desperate to call AC "The Flea".  

Don't be a hater. :nono:


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

OES said:


> I'm not singling you out, but you're here today and vocal.
> 
> Tell, me please, if there is one specific thing Lance could do right? The Lance-bashers are kinda like the Bush-bashers. Amazing how one human being, 24/7, does EVERYTHING wrong. So I'm trying to extract one good thing we can go home with here, about Lance. No?


I don't feel singled out. Lance did a lot right. He rode an amazing race. Not for a 37-year-old. An unqualified great race. To finish third in this tour (which I felt had severaql very good racers peaking at the right time) was an amazing accomplishment for any bike racer. Throw in the circumstances (time away, etc.), and it is even more impressive. 

He's a tremendous ambassador in the fight against cancer.

I admire those two things about him a lot.

I imagine he buys his kids nice things for Christmas, and probably helps them with their homework, though I have no proof.

That's about it.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

FondriestFan said:


> The funniest part is that you're so desperate to call AC "The Flea".
> 
> Don't be a hater. :nono:



Oh no not at all. It's meant as a somewhat backwards term of edearment/compliment.

What do fleas do? Ounce for ounce, they jump farther and faster than any other species of critter "pound for pound". And, no one can quite catch them. 

Quite fitting actually. I have my mom to thank for that one.


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## ProRoad (Oct 13, 2008)

Ligget said it and Im sure he regrets it. bad choice of words is all.

Lance showed amazing control in his words the whole tour


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## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

OES said:


> I'm not singling you out, but you're here today and vocal.
> 
> Tell, me please, if there is one specific thing Lance could do right? The Lance-bashers are kinda like the Bush-bashers. Amazing how one human being, 24/7, does EVERYTHING wrong. So I'm trying to extract one good thing we can go home with here, about Lance. No?


I think the high majority of the anti-Lance crowd are always quick to point out how focused he is and how much he has done for cancer patients.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> And, no one can quite catch them.


Except my dog.  

Now that you mention it, Contador does tend to bob up and down when he's climbing as though he's about to jump.

Too bad Bettini has already taken the name Grasshopper.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

izzyfly said:


> Pinnacle of childishness (I meant the comment).



whatever

My point is that if anyone elese whinges about theri team like Lance does they get reamed but when Lance does it its some how ok.

Sorry if the facts shakes up you little world.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> It's no secret LA and The Flea won't be having a love child together anytime soon. But they do play nice on occasion.
> 
> http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jFa1M-4e6-Ibh2-coLreo0hIRcEQD99LN4I80


Wow, that is some serious disrespect!!!! Thanks for posting that.

Lance saying that Alberto would have beaten him even when he was at his best! 

The imagination of the Lance haters never fails to amuse me.


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## Blue CheeseHead (Jul 14, 2008)

jptaylorsg said:


> Respectfully disagree. I assume his new sponsors are aware that he is on a team that's participating in a race right now, and I would expect that they will expect the courtesy of him acting like he is a member of Team Radio Shack next year when he is on that team. I kind of doubt there was a chance of them pulling sponsorship if he didn't have dinner with them the night his team sews up first and third in the race.
> 
> Maybe he might have tried to find time to celebrate with and thank Popo, Zubeldia, Rast and Kloden, among others, for dragging his old ass to third place, whatever the failed result of his egotistical mutiny attempt?
> 
> It was a petulant bush-league move no matter which shade of rose the glasses are that you're looking through.


You sir are clueless. This is a business and Lance had business to attend. He is the driver of the Radio Shack deal. Without him the Radio Shack team does not exist. Contidor is the one in yellow, let the team celebrate with him.

To your point about Astana dragging him around, he did his fair share of dragging and protecting team mates this year.

Your bias is clear for all to see but is clouding your vision.


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

Blue CheeseHead said:


> You sir are clueless.
> 
> Your bias is clear for all to see but is clouding your vision.


Well, sir, it's a credit to you that you can be such a classy gentleman while disagreeing with someone.

I wasn't aware that the Radio Shack deal was in such danger of falling apart if Lance didn't schmooze them on the penultimate night of the Tour when his team was celebrating a goal achieved by Contador (not Contidor).

I stand well and ably corrected.


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## theBreeze (Jan 7, 2002)

FondriestFan said:


> Too bad Bettini has already taken the name Grasshopper.



Need a new Italian translator. Bettini is "The Cricket." Crickets are better looking than grasshoppers...

(regarding this whole thread and several others that have appeared on theis forum)
I really don't understand all this "Lance says it's all about him." stuff. Sure, we can gues that it was pretty upsetting to Contador that Lance decided to come back. But everything that I have heard, that actually came out of Armstrongs mouth, was consistant with his statements that they were going to be in a "co-leader" situation and let it play out on the road. Which it did with Contador proving he was obviously the strongest racer in the Tour, and Lance doing his best to finish as high as he could and still work within the team structure. There have been plenty of teams over the years with "co-leader" situations like this, and it has rarely turned out this well.

So now they will part ways. Contador may find himself on a great team, or he may not. Despite his impressive wins he doesn't yet have the political pull in the bike world to "put together" a team himself. He is going to have to be very choosy with whom he signs. I suspect he may want to go back to a spanish team, but you never know. Currently i can't think of any that are strong enough to effectively support a major GC contender. Otherwise Saxo has plenty of power already with the Schlecks, and Columbia may want to focus on Tony Martin.

No one on this forum has really any knowledge of the internal politics of Astana. Everything is based on 10 second snippets of interviews, out of context quotes from the press, and scads of media speculation.

my $.02


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

When LA was winning, the team was 'one for all, and all for one'. 

Now on his comeback, he's a co-leader. So where did the 'all for one' thing go?


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

Time2ride said:


> Ditto!
> 
> In most of the interviews, Lance is always the one put on the spot and asked about the tension between the two riders. How come they don't ask Alberto? What that does is draw all the attention to Lance as being the problem.
> 
> So what went on behind the scenes with the team, stays with the team. Let's just give the greatest athlete in the world the credit that he deserves and leave it at that. Nuff said!


All I know is that if I had a teamate and a DS that said the things Lance and Bruyneel said about Contador, I would not consider them my teamate or coach. Let's face facts. Lance and JB and most of the rest of the team essentially threw Contador under the bus. Saying anything short of 100% pro-Contador, the freaking team leader, by a teamate and coach is a huge Grand Canyon away from keeping things behind the scene. Nope, Lance and JB did not keep things behind the scenes.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

Blue CheeseHead said:


> You sir are clueless. This is a business and Lance had business to attend. He is the driver of the Radio Shack deal. Without him the Radio Shack team does not exist. Contidor is the one in yellow, let the team celebrate with him.
> 
> To your point about Astana dragging him around, he did his fair share of dragging and protecting team mates this year.
> 
> Your bias is clear for all to see but is clouding your vision.


Your comment is even more clueless. Lance's business was with the team until the team no longer exists. I somehow doubt that the Radio Shack executives informed Lance he either comes to dinner or the deal is off. Lance's move here was disrespectful, selfish and classless. Indeed, he seemed hesitant to even admit he went to dinner with the Radio Shack folks. It was as if he knew it was unprofessional.


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## Circlip (Jul 26, 2005)

Well then, I hearby bestow the nickname of "the Ass" to Lance Armstrong, who just like his namesake the donkey demonstrated an unrivalled capacity to absorb high workloads during his legendary training regime.



OldEndicottHiway said:


> Oh no not at all. It's meant as a somewhat backwards term of edearment/compliment.
> 
> What do fleas do? Ounce for ounce, they jump farther and faster than any other species of critter "pound for pound". And, no one can quite catch them.


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## phazelag (Sep 1, 2008)

theBreeze said:


> regarding this whole thread and several others that have appeared on theis forum)
> I really don't understand all this "Lance says it's all about him." stuff. Sure, we can gues that it was pretty upsetting to Contador that Lance decided to come back. But everything that I have heard, that actually came out of Armstrongs mouth, was consistant with his statements that they were going to be in a "co-leader" situation and let it play out on the road. Which it did with Contador proving he was obviously the strongest racer in the Tour, and Lance doing his best to finish as high as he could and still work within the team structure. There have been plenty of teams over the years with "co-leader" situations like this, and it has rarely turned out this well.


Actually thats wht this thread is about and your observation is correct. But if you watched the american coverage on versus you would have thought Contador was Rogue teammate not capable of being restrained and all he was doing was racing. And it all started because Lance came back and took over Astana and this was forced onto Contador the Supposed to be defending champ. 

And Contadors two attacks were the only real racing that happened for the GC riders out of the whole 21 days. With out the sprinters I would have fallen asleep for the end of every stage. 

My whole point was pointing out that versus played up the bad team mate for Contador and good team mate for Lance and it was crap!


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## Ken (Feb 7, 2004)

Though a fan of Lance I still think his absence from the team celebration for Alberto winning the GC smacks of sour grapes. A brief cameo appearance would have been enough for the great Lance, but as I see it even this would have been too much of a come down for him.


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## phazelag (Sep 1, 2008)

Ken said:


> Though a fan of Lance I still think his absence from the team celebration for Alberto winning the GC smacks of sour grapes. A brief cameo appearance would have been enough for the great Lance, but as I see it even this would have been too much of a come down for him.



Remember all the talk of a gentlemans sport for Hincapie's 5 seconds. How about the 7 time winner going to the party for his own teams victory, for a gentlemanly act.

Z


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## phazelag (Sep 1, 2008)

Before I get too out of hand bashing Lance. I know we all have several faces. I havent met a human yet who doesnt have more than one face no matter how subtle. But this is a big event on a big stage and it seems so obvious to me the slober fest for Lance. I just think the media should be sorting these things out on versus and not leaving it up to us to say it on these forums. But it is fun to have the conversations with people.


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

Tschai said:


> Your comment is even more clueless. Lance's business was with the team until the team no longer exists. I somehow doubt that the Radio Shack executives informed Lance he either comes to dinner or the deal is off. Lance's move here was disrespectful, selfish and classless. Indeed, he seemed hesitant to even admit he went to dinner with the Radio Shack folks. It was as if he knew it was unprofessional.


And yours is the most clueless of all. You have no idea if the Radio Shack execs had to leave for home this morning or not and yet you pass judgement. Without facts, there is no way of knowing what Lances reasoning was for attending that diner. Your lack of objectivity shows your rabid bias.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Ken said:


> Though a fan of Lance I still think his absence from the team celebration for Alberto winning the GC smacks of sour grapes. A brief cameo appearance would have been enough for the great Lance, but as I see it even this would have been too much of a come down for him.



Yeah that was my gut reaction. Seems...not cool. But we don't know the whole story.

It'll be a long time when and if the public at large knows any of the score.

One thing is clear, they're probably both being effers, just which one is the bigger effer I don't have a clue.

Lock two bulls in a room and blood will be spilled.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

My initial reaction when I saw the interview was why was he having dinner with a new sponsor rather than the team? I would think that his new team business could wait until he finishes the Tour... despite their differences it would have been more honorable to be with his current team, AC is a teamate and shouldn't be slighted like that.
I realize that deals are struck for next year even with the riders chatting during the race and in their spare time etc. Right or wrong, it just struck me as sort of cheesy for him to do that. I hope they all made up for it after today's stage.


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## El Caballito (Oct 31, 2004)

nOOky said:


> My initial reaction when I saw the interview was why was he having dinner with a new sponsor rather than the team? I would think that his new team business could wait until he finishes the Tour... despite their differences it would have been more honorable to be with his current team, AC is a teamate and shouldn't be slighted like that.
> I realize that deals are struck for next year even with the riders chatting during the race and in their spare time etc. Right or wrong, it just struck me as sort of cheesy for him to do that. I hope they all made up for it after today's stage.


So much for sticking, first and foremost to the TEAM plan...


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

SwiftSolo said:


> And yours is the most clueless of all. You have no idea if the Radio Shack execs had to leave for home this morning or not and yet you pass judgement. Without facts, there is no way of knowing what Lances reasoning was for attending that diner. Your lack of objectivity shows your rabid bias.


I do not lack objectivity. You have no idea how I feel about Lance or Contador. In any case, your own logic can just as easily be applied to your "explanation." You have no idea if the RS execs had to leave or not. If they did not, what then? I must be correct. 

Moreover, even if they did have to go, which is highly unlikely, if the team had a celebration dinner, Lance should have been there regardless of what schedule the RS execs were on.

Also, and perhaps most importantly, as long as the race is on, Lance should not be having dinner with his new team. It is simply unprofessional and disrespectful. Wait until the damn race is over.


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## TReiner (Mar 21, 2009)

Tschai said:


> Your comment is even more clueless. Lance's business was with the team until the team no longer exists. I somehow doubt that the Radio Shack executives informed Lance he either comes to dinner or the deal is off. Lance's move here was disrespectful, selfish and classless. Indeed, he seemed hesitant to even admit he went to dinner with the Radio Shack folks. It was as if he knew it was unprofessional.


Bullshit. Choice is subjective and no way any of us can know why Lance didnt' go (just assumption). He chose not to go period. Boo hoo for Contador who made no friends on this tour. But Lance choosing to dine elsewhere shouldn't push anyone's panties all up in their crawl, if you get my meaning. 

drop the Lance hate already as is just seems indulgent.


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## es12 (Sep 29, 2005)

Hey at least Lance achieved his real purpose at the Tour, you know making the world more aware of cancer.... wait.. what? The only cancer-fighting I saw was a few gaudy bikes covered in livestrong logos. Though I do in all seriousness respect his foundation I'm not such a huge fan of the pretense.

For the spaniards out there this article may be the closest thing to what actually went on in the astana camp. I tried to translate it but can't make heads or tails of it, maybe someone can help...

http://www.diariosur.es/20090727/deportes/ciclismo/fiesta-privada-contador-20090727.html


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Lance is a sore loser. He never gave Conty the deference he himself demanded himself as a team leader/Tour winner. And Armstrong aired the team's dirty laundry to the press. He ridiculously seemed to expect Conty to help him defend his podium place in the Tour on Ventoux. 

And all this b.s. coming from Lance about doing stuff for the "team". I mean for chrissakes Astana wasn't even paying the riders and staff earlier in the year. Just about everyone on this "team" is jumping ship at the end of the season. Will this "team" even put on a decent showing at the Vuelta? 

Armstrong would have never have put up with this sort of gripping from the number three man on one of his team. Remember when Victor Hugo Pena grabbed the yellow ? He was made to go back and fetch water bottles for the Postal while in the maillot jaune.


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

Time2ride said:


> Let's just give the greatest athlete in the world the credit that he deserves and leave it at that. Nuff said!


I agree with you -- <b>Contador</b> deserves all the credit in the world ! :thumbsup:


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

little tidbits in today's Equipe:

Alberto had to bum a ride back with his brother after reconning the Annecy TT, all the available team cars were out at the airport picking up LA's family, GF and kids.

No team cars waited for the Astana team leader and yellow jersey wearer on the Ventoux after the protocol - LA had already sped off to Avignon in JB's car for his tete-à-tete with his new cash cows. AC had to bum a ride down off the mountain from his fan club.

... but also, AC was voted one of the most accessible and friendly riders by the press corps. 

He also made sure to go thank all his team-mates after every stage -- including LA.


When his local cycling club (from Pinto) showed up, he made sure they all got passes for the village depart and spent hours hanging out and joking with these true friends and supporters.

But I guess since he didn't twitter about any of this, it didn't happen.


Total disrespect on the part of JB -- what an arse.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

philippec said:


> little tidbits in today's Equipe:
> 
> Alberto had to bum a ride back with his brother after reconning the Annecy TT, all the available team cars were out at the airport picking up LA's family, GF and kids.
> 
> ...


These are just a few examples of the stuff that is swirling around out there.

The whole notion that Conti is un-liked and unprofessional is a BS spin by LA and JB.

Did Conti disobey orders? Im sure here decided that listening to JB would result in Lance taking the jersey and himself not have a chance to do his own race.

Its pretty clear if your actually looking the Lance and JB did everything they could to hold Conti back and dispite this he still rode to help Lance defend is 3rd place, at least as much as any leader would.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

philippec said:


> little tidbits in today's Equipe:
> 
> Alberto had to bum a ride back with his brother after reconning the Annecy TT, all the available team cars were out at the airport picking up LA's family, GF and kids.
> 
> ...



Ouch! 

Not sure how much of this is Euro media spin, as much as what we see/hear about LA is American media spin. 

At face value alone and taking _everything_ else out of the equation, relegating the yellow to essentially hitchhiking, is just not very nice.


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## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

phazelag said:


> Contador is young and he probably is driven more on emotion than wisdom, but that doesnt mean is he dumb. If it wasnt for Carmichael, Bob Roll, and Bruyneel where would lance have been? We wouldnt even know his name right now. Contador just needs some good people around him are loyal to him and have some leadership skills.


Bob Roll!?


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

TReiner said:


> Bullshit. Choice is subjective and no way any of us can know why Lance didnt' go (just assumption). He chose not to go period. Boo hoo for Contador who made no friends on this tour. But Lance choosing to dine elsewhere shouldn't push anyone's panties all up in their crawl, if you get my meaning.
> 
> drop the Lance hate already as is just seems indulgent.


No one's panties are pushed up other than yours and the other "Lance is God" crowd. I love Lance, but his behavior for this year's tour was way crappier than Contador's and based on everything I see, he should have gone to the teams celebration dinner, whether it was Saturday night, Sunday night or any other time. 

I suggest you drop the overly subjective Lance Love. The fact remains that Lance should not have come back on Astana. Contador had already earned the right to be its unequivocal leader.


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## Christine (Jul 23, 2005)

Bobke was appointed by Carmichael to ride with Lance during his cancer recovery. Because Bob had suffered through the TdF and illness, the idea was to motivate Lance, which Bob did help to do.

Bob's got such a great sense of humor that I can imagine what a help that would've been.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

es12 said:


> Hey at least Lance achieved his real purpose at the Tour, you know making the world more aware of cancer.... wait.. what? The only cancer-fighting I saw was a few gaudy bikes covered in livestrong logos. Though I do in all seriousness respect his foundation I'm not such a huge fan of the pretense.


I could not agree more. I was amazed at the lack of "plugging" so to speak of Lance's cancer-fighting cause. Of the several interviews of him on VS, I think he only mentioned the cause once and then all he said was that his butterfly bike would be auctioned off for the foundation. I think Lance should have been way more vocal on the cause. For example, at each interview he could have at least mentioned something. Please donate. Remember the cause. Something. He didn't say much at all.


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## theBreeze (Jan 7, 2002)

ok, I'm missing the sarcasm button right???


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

Tschai said:


> No one's panties are pushed up other than yours and the other "Lance is God" crowd. I love Lance, but his behavior for this year's tour was way crappier than Contador's and based on everything I see, he should have gone to the teams celebration dinner, whether it was Saturday night, Sunday night or any other time.
> 
> I suggest you drop the overly subjective Lance Love. The fact remains that Lance should not have come back on Astana. Contador had already earned the right to be its unequivocal leader.


Here's a cycling fan that can't stand Astana or anything that has to do with Johan Bruyneel. However it struck me as kind of odd that from the beginning of the season, JB had become Lance's shadow.
He had the best stage racer in the business, under his management and he basically gave it up for an ex-champion who hadn't raced anything worth speaking of for 3 years?
Contador is the present and future of stage racing. Hell, he could even win a race like LBL if he really tried.
But I guess with the Astana money being pulled out from under him, he had no choice but to return to being Lance's little pooch.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

MG537 said:


> Here's a cycling fan that can't stand Astana or anything that has to do with Johan Bruyneel. However it struck me as kind of odd that from the beginning of the season, JB had become Lance's shadow.
> He had the best stage racer in the business, under his management and he basically gave it up for an ex-champion who hadn't raced anything worth speaking of for 3 years?
> Contador is the present and future of stage racing. Hell, he could even win a race like LBL if he really tried.
> But I guess with the Astana money being pulled out from under him, he had no choice but to return to being Lance's little pooch.


My guess is that Bruyneel got greedy about winning the Tour again with Lance. I suppose if it happened, it would go down in history as one of the greatest things ever.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*aww come on*



es12 said:


> Hey at least Lance achieved his real purpose at the Tour, you know making the world more aware of cancer.... wait.. what? The only cancer-fighting I saw was a few gaudy bikes covered in livestrong logos. Though I do in all seriousness respect his foundation I'm not such a huge fan of the pretense.
> 
> For the spaniards out there this article may be the closest thing to what actually went on in the astana camp. I tried to translate it but can't make heads or tails of it, maybe someone can help...
> 
> http://www.diariosur.es/20090727/deportes/ciclismo/fiesta-privada-contador-20090727.html


a 7 time TDF winner and he is a cancer survivor. THEN after nearly 4 years, he comes back and gets a podium spot.

Like him or not, WTF do you want the man to do? He has as far as the TDF goes, set a freak standard, he knows it, the media knows it and life will go on.

However, he has said flat out, he cant climb wih the young kids. It would be MIRACULOUS if he gets another TDF.


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## Italophile (Jun 11, 2004)

Mel Erickson said:


> Bob Roll!?


Bobke was instrumental in getting Lance back on his bike in 1997-98. True.


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## Italophile (Jun 11, 2004)

fornaca68 said:


> Again, you're forming a new pro team, your new sponsor is going to give you a $15 million check to fund the operation, that sponsor invites you to dinner in Avignon, you go to dinner with your sponsor. Simple as that.


No, I don't. And Lance doesn't have to jump to the tune of ...Radio Shack! They would bend over backwards for him, not the other way around.


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*pardon*



Italophile said:


> No, I don't. And Lance doesn't have to jump to the tune of ...Radio Shack! They would bend over backwards for him, not the other way around.


No, life does not work that way. Sponsors pay you, you show up. Period.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

ttug said:


> No, life does not work that way. Sponsors pay you, you show up. Period.


It works that way for Lance Armstrong. He does what he wants and has the juice to find just about any sponsor needed. Sorry, but the only reason Lance didn't go to the dinner was because he did not want to.


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## Italophile (Jun 11, 2004)

OES says: Tell, me please, if there is one specific thing Lance could do right? The Lance-bashers are kinda like the Bush-bashers. Amazing how one human being, 24/7, does EVERYTHING wrong. So I'm trying to extract one good thing we can go home with here, about Lance. No?

Kevin says: Damn get off of Lance already you all need to just shut up.
___________________________________

Lance-bashers? As if one has only two choices: love or hate? This view of things is too simplistic. Maybe it comes from the rancorous haste of today's culture of irresponsibly flatulent internet commentary.

Lance is amazing. Heroic on multiple levels. Inspirational. Brilliant and determined in his quest to excel at the sport he loves. "Does everything wrong"? No. To me, he did almost everything right, certainly during the three weeks of this Tour.

But if some of us disagree with any one thing he does, we are labeled "haters" or "bashers". It is not a binary world. People are not [supposed to be] that simple, and Lance Armstrong is a complex person. He has brilliant abilities and stark flaws contained within the same body.

To many eyes, one of his flaws is the scale of his ego. In this Astana case, it served to marginalize a person who is now better at the sport than Lance, at his advanced age. We do not know what happened behind closed doors, but Johan Bruyneel and Lance did not appear to show the respect to Alberto Contador that he deserves, which is respect equal to what Lance demands for himself; no more, no less.

We who have criticized those two men for their apparent attitude toward the younger man do not hate Lance, we hate the treatment of Alberto, and I believe we are justified in so doing.

I respect Lance Armstrong, but I have often been chafed by his arrogance throughout the whole of his long career. Being annoyed at some part of someone you respect and want very much to like does not equate to hate. We can hate the sin and decry it publicly, but still love the sinner, and this is the way we feel about Lance and Johan. Calling people out on their rough treatment of others is essential to promoting good behavior in all of us.


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

Italophile said:


> OES says: Tell, me please, if there is one specific thing Lance could do right? The Lance-bashers are kinda like the Bush-bashers. Amazing how one human being, 24/7, does EVERYTHING wrong. So I'm trying to extract one good thing we can go home with here, about Lance. No?
> 
> Kevin says: Damn get off of Lance already you all need to just shut up.
> ___________________________________
> ...


Amen!


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## Mel Erickson (Feb 3, 2004)

Italophile said:


> Bobke was instrumental in getting Lance back on his bike in 1997-98. True.


Oh, I understand that Roll road with Armstrong quite a bit during his recovery and having a buddy to help you along is important but I'd hardly say that without Roll he wouldn't have gotten where he was/is. I can see Carmichael and Bruyneel but Rolls moral support isn't on the same level. If that's the case you could probably add Linda and Cheryl and plenty of others, which may be true, but I believe he would have found a way back.


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## M-theory (Jul 16, 2009)

Italophile said:


> Lance-bashers? As if one has only two choices: love or hate? This view of things is too simplistic. Maybe it comes from the rancorous haste of today's culture of irresponsibly flatulent internet commentary.
> 
> Lance is amazing. Heroic on multiple levels. Inspirational. Brilliant and determined in his quest to excel at the sport he loves. "Does everything wrong"? No. To me, he did almost everything right, certainly during the three weeks of this Tour.
> 
> ...



Amen indeed. I would go one step further and say that though I've read the negative press on Lance in the past, I had never entirely believed it, and I always gave him the benefit of the doubt. Nobody's perfect and a great champion has certainly got to be more competetive than some would like. That's a given.

But the disrespect that was shown to Contador was aggregious. (It is miraculous that Contado managed to remain unfazed and focussed throughout.) The double standard that Lance applied to the new team leader, a mutinous overthrow that he himself would never have tolerated borders on disgusting.

I came to this tour with a liking and admiration for the man Lance Armstrong...expecting that he came to give something back to the sport. I assumed he was aware that without his supporting team, he would not be a 7-time champion. I assumed that this was his year to show he could be a team player and lend his support to a new and rising superstar...and place well at the same time. But such was not the case.

Contador said that the hardest moments of the tour were not on the bike...but were in the hotel room with JB and LA. 

Its one thing to try and psych out an opponent, but its quite another when you try to mentally undermine a teammate... who you know is your physical superior. In the latter case, its a form of cheating. 

The best thing to come from Lance's participation this year was to impress upon us the greatness of Contador's mental and physical prowess. 



I


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

M-theory said:


> But the disrespect that was shown to Contador was aggregious. (It is miraculous that Contado managed to remain unfazed and focussed throughout.) The double standard that Lance applied to the new team leader, a mutinous overthrow that he himself would never have tolerated borders on disgusting.
> I


It's quite odd. Someone who never tolerated the least bit of personal ambition out of his team mates, seems to have thought Contador wasn't a team player because he attacked and put time into his rivals when Bruyneel/Armstrong apparently thought he should bide his time (since he went on to win easily I guess it didn't matter one way or the other) and he launced an attack which dropped a potentialy faultering Kloden (who Armstrong had had stay back with him in the Pyrenees when he was dropped, costing Kloden time on the GC).

What kind of team mate was Armstrong when he had Astana ride to put time into Contador and the other rivals, when that split occurred in the wind?


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## ttug (May 14, 2004)

*man*



Tschai said:


> It works that way for Lance Armstrong. He does what he wants and has the juice to find just about any sponsor needed. Sorry, but the only reason Lance didn't go to the dinner was because he did not want to.


No, it does NOT work that way. Nike existed before Lance as did Radio Shack. Lots of Lance freaks out tonight.

Nighty night


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

Dwayne Barry said:


> It's quite odd. Someone who never tolerated the least bit of personal ambition out of his team mates, seems to have thought Contador wasn't a team player because he attacked and put time into his rivals when Bruyneel/Armstrong apparently thought he should bide his time (since he went on to win easily I guess it didn't matter one way or the other) and he launced an attack which dropped a potentialy faultering Kloden (who Armstrong had had stay back with him in the Pyrenees when he was dropped, costing Kloden time on the GC).
> 
> What kind of team mate was Armstrong when he had Astana ride to put time into Contador and the other rivals, when that split occurred in the wind?


When I heard Lemond call him a sociopath I laughed.

There may be some truth to it though...


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

SilasCL said:


> When I heard Lemond call him a sociopath I laughed.
> 
> There may be some truth to it though...


It's really kind of funny because if we are really going to assume that Kloden wasn't going to be dropped if Contador didn't take his dig, then the only thing that changes is Kloden ends up on the podium and Armstrong is fourth.

So if anything by being a bad team mate it got Armstrong on the podium.


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## Sasquatch (Feb 3, 2004)

someone ought to tel Lance that. Will be interesting to hear his reaction.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Sure, Lance hasn't been that great in his words etc. AC as well.

AC keeps quiet. And what philippec said sheds some light to this situation.

But, IMO as well, if he (AC) shut up, it'd show more class perhaps. 

Either way, I'm an LA fan. I like AC too. But seriously, if AC kept quiet, there won't be more tweets from LA about him not thanking the team etc as well. 

Then again, if what LA and JB did to leave him after the stage etc is true, then that's effed up as well.

Both aren't exactly innocent. But, 2 wrongs also don't make a right. Then again, I also hope Contador gets on a good team next year. Astana is done with Vino coming back. Caisse looks OK but with a possible TTT in the Tour, he needs better guys too. 

Somehow, after all these fracas and crap, I'm preferring Andy Schleck now.


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

I guess im wishy washy. I read all these posts and have not been convinced either way. Sounds like the Astana camp was a soap opera, it happens in every sport. Am I allowed to like both guys? Because they both are pretty darn inspirational. Lance in too many ways to list. Al Contador might be the best ever. Lance mentioned at least 3 times I can remember that Alberto was "amazing" and "strong". Not exactly bashing him. They finished 1 and 3, so JB isnt as dumb as you all think. He must have said something useful to Conti at some point. People are acting like they both imploded and finished out of the top 10. These guys are far more respectful of each other than their brothers in the MLB and NBA.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

bigmig19 said:


> I guess im wishy washy. I read all these posts and have not been convinced either way. Sounds like the Astana camp was a soap opera, it happens in every sport. Am I allowed to like both guys? Because they both are pretty darn inspirational. Lance in too many ways to list. Al Contador might be the best ever. Lance mentioned at least 3 times I can remember that Alberto was "amazing" and "strong". Not exactly bashing him. They finished 1 and 3, so JB isnt as dumb as you all think. He must have said something useful to Conti at some point. People are acting like they both imploded and finished out of the top 10. *These guys are far more respectful of each other than their brothers in the MLB and NBA.*


No kidding!


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## Tschai (Jun 19, 2003)

ttug said:


> No, it does NOT work that way. Nike existed before Lance as did Radio Shack. Lots of Lance freaks out tonight.
> 
> Nighty night


What or who existed first is irrelevant.

And the old look at the "lance freaks", or "get a life" or "just ride" type comments are also irrelevant and very hypocritical. Everyone here is participating and expressing opinions. No one is more righteous than anyone else.


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