# Vino goes KABOOM!!!!



## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

Hahahahahaha!!! Man Vino got smoked today. Over 5 minutes down just on today's stage. What happened to Vino is going to challenge for the Tour win?? I knew it would never happen. He races too stupid for long stage races. While attacking is great to watch, it doesn't do you much good if you're getting dropped on the stages that matter. For all of the people who were so worried when he picked up a handful of seconds the other day, I say, I told you so. I told you all it wouldn't matter. 

Look for Vino to attack once again though, but he won't be going too far. He got shellacked today! Him and Ullrich and Kloden. Now does it seem like such a good idea for Kloden to go on the attack and that break the other day? I think not. Now does it seem like such a good idea for Vino to try several attacks the other day when it didn't matter? I think not. Ah, T-Mobile, wasting their talent once again.


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*Ummm...*



FondriestFan said:


> I regret the time I wasted reading the crap you posted.
> 
> Typical loud-mouth junk. Small-time wannabee talking smack about some of the top cyclists in the world.


Isn't that what happened though? Kloden blew up. Ullrich blew up. Vino blew up.

Is one talking junk if that's what happened? I don't think so.

I believe I also said watch for Vino to attack again, but not get too far. Disco will have him on a short leash until the end of the le Tour.

And for your information, I'm not a small time wanna-be. I'm a never was. Please get the terminology correct, although I would wager that I've raced more times in the past 5 years than most who post on here.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

I regret the time I wasted reading the crap you posted.

Typical loud-mouth junk. Small-time wannabee talking smack about some of the top cyclists in the world.


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## erol/frost (May 30, 2004)

T-Mobile tried and they will continue trying. That is worthy of respect.


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## Inspector Gadget (Apr 5, 2002)

*Where oh where?*



FondriestFan said:


> I regret the time I wasted reading the crap you posted.
> 
> Typical loud-mouth junk. Small-time wannabee talking smack about some of the top cyclists in the world.


Maybe a bit too caustic, but fairly accurate. T-Mobile DID expend lots of energy in the not-so-significant stages. Won't comment on Jan. Two crashes and apparently bruised ribs is too much to ask anyone. In that condition, maybe it's a testament to him that he didn't lose more time.

Regarding your loud-mouth comment; if that (or yours) is the worst post today in terms of attack, then I'll take it. Reading the "I'm so important, know-it-all, you're an LA/Disco lover homer idiot" venom that has been coming out of the posts of some the last few days in particular, I'm happy to see that they are speechless after the "weak" Disco team just blew apart again today in awe of the vastly superior triple threat of T-Mobile.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

I doubt anyone really thought Discovery was weak. I mean, come on. We've seen how "weak" they are for six straight years now.

I responded to the first post. It seemed rather pathetic for some weekend warrior to spout off like that. Personally, I think if everyone posted as though the person they were posting about were right in front of them, we'd avoid a lot of the needless chest-thumping and loud-mouth posts.


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## Inspector Gadget (Apr 5, 2002)

FondriestFan said:


> Personally, I think if everyone posted as though the person they were posting about were right in front of them, we'd avoid a lot of the needless chest-thumping and loud-mouth posts.


So true. I hope everyone reads that one line...


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## erol/frost (May 30, 2004)

FondriestFan said:


> I doubt anyone really thought Discovery was weak. I mean, come on. We've seen how "weak" they are for six straight years now.
> 
> I responded to the first post. It seemed rather pathetic for some weekend warrior to spout off like that. Personally, I think if everyone posted as though the person they were posting about were right in front of them, we'd avoid a lot of the needless chest-thumping and loud-mouth posts.



Indeed, well put.


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*Actually my friend...*



FondriestFan said:


> I doubt anyone really thought Discovery was weak. I mean, come on. We've seen how "weak" they are for six straight years now.
> 
> I responded to the first post. It seemed rather pathetic for some weekend warrior to spout off like that. Personally, I think if everyone posted as though the person they were posting about were right in front of them, we'd avoid a lot of the needless chest-thumping and loud-mouth posts.


Actually, if Vino were standing in front of me, I'd probably say the same thing to him. More along the lines of, "Dude, you got slammed and dropped today." I wouldn't hold back, and don't hold back in "real" life, so why would I on the internet? Of course I wouldn't. 

Why is it rather pathetic for someone to spout off like that? As far as I know, that's what sports fans the world over do every single day. Are you to tell me that you are a fan of only cycling. Let's say just for the sake of argument's sake that you're a football fan. In particular, you are a fan of the New England Patriots. Tom Brady throws 3 interceptions in a game. Are you telling me that you wouldn't rip on him for doing that just because he's one of the best quarterbacks in the league? I highly doubt it. So why is it so pathetic for myself, and others bear in mind, to spout off like that about a sport that we might know something about. Or actually in my case, a sport that I know a lot about. I'm a fan of the sport, and a participant in it. I'm a little more than a weekend warrior my friend, so don't try to pidgeonhole me into something that you THINK I am, when I'm actually far from it.

Just for your reference, if I knew you, and you were standing here in front of me now, I'd give you the same speech. Sorry, just how it is.

Go back and review the original post and tell me if there is anything in there that is untrue. A little harsh as someone else said, but hey, I am a harsh person.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

LOL. Dude you're a total poser. You're just some wannabe cyclist talking weak smack. Vino would laugh in your face. You couldn't hold Vino's wheel with a bungee cord.

Please, kid. Grow up. Racers like Vino gave it all today. It was painfully obvious from the looks on their faces. The notion of some web geek posting on message board lecturing them about why they got dropped is laughably sad.


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## peterpen (May 5, 2004)

magnolialover said:


> "What happened to Vino is going to challenge for the Tour win??"
> 
> He had a bad day. Bummer - but it's the first day in the mountains, the first day after a rest day, and there's plenty more mountains to come. We'll see if Armstrong can keep it up for three weeks, something that definitely gets harder as riders age.
> 
> ...


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## MaRider (Mar 21, 2002)

FondriestFan said:


> LOL. Dude you're a total poser. You're just some wannabe cyclist talking weak smack. Vino would laugh in your face. You couldn't hold Vino's wheel with a bungee cord.
> 
> Please, kid. Grow up. Racers like Vino gave it all today. It was painfully obvious from the looks on their faces. The notion of some web geek posting on message board lecturing them about why they got dropped is laughably sad.


Vino got spanked today though. I love Vino since I speak the same language as he does and he was always my hero. But he did get spanked. And now his GC hopes are gone. Sad, as I thought he was one of the greatest threats to LA.

I don't see why anything magnolia said was so outrageous. It was slightly harsher than Phil and Paul would put it, but he did crack after all, and by a lot. All of us here are "nobodies" compared to the last man in the Tour. So what? Does it mean we can't comment on the riders anymore? Most of us are at least 10 lbs over the weight we could probably attain if we rode 6 hours a day and watched what we eat. Does it mean we can't critisize Jan for being overweight for the Tour?!

I think your language is much worse than magnolia's. "Pathetic". "Wannabe". "Grow up". "Poseur". "Laughably sad". Is that really neccessary?


Let's try it again with some language cleaned up, and you will see that the post is corect in it's nature:

"Vino got smoked today. Over 5 minutes down just on today's stage. What happened to Vino? Is he still going to challenge for the Tour win?? I knew it would never happen. He races too irrationally for long stage races. While attacking is great to watch, it doesn't do you much good if you're getting dropped on the stages that matter. For all of the people who were so worried when he picked up a handful of seconds the other day, I say, I told you so. I knew it wouldn't matter. 

Look for Vino to attack once again though, but he won't be going too far. He got dropped today. Him and Ullrich and Kloden. Now does it seem like such a good idea for Kloden to go on the attack and that break the other day? I think not. Now does it seem like such a good idea for Vino to try several attacks the other day when it didn't matter? I think not. Ah, T-Mobile, wasting their talent once again."

I would stand by such post, even though I didn't "tell you so", I thought Vino had a chance, for a change. In retrospect Vino may indeed blew his form on several relatively minor but costly attacks, and now paid with minutes. I still think the attacks may have been worth it, but I wonder what may have happened if T-mobile approached things in a more structured, planned way, with everyone playing a role - a leader or domestique. Anyone else notice how Kloden pulled Jan up the hill after they were dropped, with Jan not going to the front even once? Maybe it was just the camera.


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## DieselDan (Sep 14, 2002)

You see Kloden's eyes pop out through the sunglasses. Talking is over.


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## 97 Teran (Feb 17, 2004)

*Hm*

I just don't buy the "Vino attacked 2-3 times two days ago and is paying for it now" bit, it's not like he did 80k off the front of the peloton in the wind. Which certainly didn't hinder Rasmussen, anyway... And to criticize someone for attacking? As long as they're not doing it 10k into a stage that's not suited for breakaways, that's kinda missing the whole point, don't you think? 

However, I also get really sick and tired of fans/media/whoever building all these riders up over the years and then in the end they simply can't hang with Armstrong & USPS' professionalism or consistency. Not being able to match Armstrong's obvious physical talent/gifts, fine- you can only work within your potential. But some of these guys do have phenomenal potential. 

Obviously this Tour is far from over- that's why I say USPS' professionalism and not Disco's, since they've another 10 days to prove themselves fully (and they did have an off day the other day). I'd love for Vino to be consistent, I'd love for Ullrich to come to the Tour in shape, for Heras and Mayo to not have 1 or 2 dreadful days in the mountains (yes, I know their grandmothers could drop me- that's not the point; I'm not earning 200-600k a year now am I?) Those two simply didn't earn their salaries today. At least Vino tries to make up for inconsistency by being explosive and unpredictable on occasion, but... it's nowhere near enough, or at least hasn't been so far.

Just my random and not-too-organized thoughts. Because what I want, really really want, is a classic, edge-of-your-seat, battle between all the top challengers. And I really don't think USPS/Disco's race plan should be blamed- it's up to the challengers to adapt to the champion's style and find a way to beat it. All blame, ultimately, lies with them.


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## ScottS (Jul 27, 2004)

peterpen said:


> Solid teamwork, Kloden took a bit of time, and WAY more entertaining than that boring "ride a hard tempo until the final 5k of the final climb" crap that Disco/Postal does. (And yes, I know it works well for them. Doesn't mean I have to applaud it)


So executing a winning, proven methodology is "crap" to you because it's boring?


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## giveme2wheels (Jul 1, 2005)

I'll just say these few things:

Todays stage was exciting to say the least!

Rasmussen is hella good. I am stoked to get to know this rider more. I watched some interviews with him and he is pure class. 

Vino, Basso, Ullrich, Leipheimer, Landis, Valverde, & Kloden, though cracked by the tempo, are _far_ from broken. They will all make these next few days in the mtns interesting and THIS reason is why I love cycling. So many damn good riders at the pinnacle of the sport hashing it out with all the balls and guts they can muster. 

Still 13 days till Champs folks!

*edit*

After thinking about it for a few minutes, I came to a simple and unprofound conclusion. Isn't it great to be able to really enjoy something passionately? We, as cyclists, are from all walks of life and are drawn together by cycling, our common denominator. Magnolia, on with the glee! Everyone else, give your opinion! It spices up the thread and makes people know what you think (though opinions are like bumholes--everyone has one and generally they are stinky. So let's try to keep 'em washed a tad in this crowded area eh? Practice some "hygene").


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## peterpen (May 5, 2004)

ScottS said:


> So executing a winning, proven methodology is "crap" to you because it's boring?


I know, it's rather silly (and if I were in their position, with the same lineup, I'd do the exact same thing.) But it IS dull to watch. 

And to make my earlier post clear, I certainly wasn't attacking Magnolia's right to criticize Vino or claiming he's some weekend warrior. Mag has some great posts, obviously puts lots of time in on the bike, and often makes solid points. Just thought the gloating was a bit much. Or maybe it's only sour grapes and a bit of crankiness b/c my babysitter bailed and I couldn't make the tuesday night race.  

Anyway, I'm rooting for the Chicken. Dude was barely sweating, while Armstrong looked like he was going to have a coronary. (as far as visible suffering, Mancebo takes the cake - he looked exactly how I feel in most races - twisted, grimacing, bobbing back and forth, drooling and snotting out.) He blew the finish, but I'd love to see a pure climber take the Tour - especially after the breakaway he put in. Hope that's how it all goes down - Chicken flies off in the Pyrenees and takes so much time that Armstrong won't be able to pull it back in the TT. Armstrong has a breakdown (even though Sheryl Crow writes him a special song for motivation) cracks in the TT, and Basso and Leipheimer round out the podium.

Probably won't happen.  But, oh the humanity!


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## nwilkes (Jun 21, 2004)

peterpen said:


> I know, it's rather silly (and if I were in their position, with the same lineup, I'd do the exact same thing.) But it IS dull to watch.
> 
> And to make my earlier post clear, I certainly wasn't attacking Magnolia's right to criticize Vino or claiming he's some weekend warrior. Mag has some great posts, obviously puts lots of time in on the bike, and often makes solid points. Just thought the gloating was a bit much. Or maybe it's only sour grapes and a bit of crankiness b/c my babysitter bailed and I couldn't make the tuesday night race.
> 
> ...


Mancebo looks like that before the race too. It is his poker face.
Chicken is good, but I doubt crafty enough at this young age to get one past Disco.


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## R1000 (Mar 15, 2005)

nwilkes said:


> Mancebo looks like that before the race too. It is his poker face.
> Chicken is good, but I doubt crafty enough at this young age to get one past Disco.


I thought that I heard on one of the stages saying that Rasmussen is 31, correct me if I'm wrong, thats not so young in cycling


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## cityeast (Sep 16, 2004)

magnolialover said:


> Hahahahahaha!!! He races too stupid for long stage races. While attacking is great to watch, it doesn't do you much good if you're getting dropped on the stages that matter.


Maybe he knew he was beat on Stage 10, so he put his mind towards Stage 11. 40 points and the ’Souvenir Henri Desgrange’. I'd say he's doing OK on the "stages that matter ".


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Sorry for my rants yesterday. I am happy to see Vino winning the day today. He's a very classy rider and yesterday was just a bad day for him. I think his attacking style just makes cycling so much more interesting.

In any case, I'm not sure today was worth the effort, but I take off my chapeau to him. Well done, Vino. Well done.


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## Alpedhuez55 (Jun 29, 2005)

FondriestFan said:


> Sorry for my rants yesterday. I am happy to see Vino winning the day today. He's a very classy rider and yesterday was just a bad day for him. I think his attacking style just makes cycling so much more interesting.
> 
> In any case, I'm not sure today was worth the effort, but I take off my chapeau to him. Well done, Vino. Well done.


Vino is fun to watch. I am far from a fan of his. But he makes things interesting with all of the attacks, even if he over does it and hurts himself sometimes. He had an impressive ride today though.

He probably thinks he is slightly better than he really is. Maybe he needs a supportive team and a little bit better strategy. He will be on the short list of favorites for next years tour.


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## eyebob (Feb 3, 2004)

*Alpe, where ya been? nm*

nmnmnmnmn


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## wheezer (Sep 21, 2004)

*but ...*



magnolialover said:


> Actually, if Vino were standing in front of me, I'd probably say the same thing to him.


just do us the favor and start it with 




magnolialover said:


> Hahahahahaha!!!


and let us know how he responds.


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## Live Steam (Feb 4, 2004)

Gee mag, you're sure good at making friends


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## Alpedhuez55 (Jun 29, 2005)

*Hi Eyebob*

Hi Eyebob. Now he big question is are you glad I am back 

I kind of went away once I started working in the industry. I just did not have much free time for a while there due to long hours and family obligations due to my dad having cancer surgery and my mother passing away. 

I left my cycling job with Decathlon in December. While it was nice working with my hands, and fun working on bikes, I just hated the retail hours. I now have time to ride, fish and play golf again. Well at least ride again once this broken toe gets a little better. I also have time to waste posting in the forum again, though I am staying out of the Politics Room  

I did get to go to France for meetings on the company dime last year. There were meetings in Normandy then I spent several days in Paris. Hopefully I will use my airmiles next year to try to either catch a couple of stages of the tour or head up for a week and catch the Tour of Flanders & Paris Robaix.

I got to ride a Cofidis Team bike too. I wish they would have sold them in the US but we did not even get the team jerseys last year since my old boss messed up. It would have been $3500 for a Full Record Team Bike, the same that they ride in the tour. Decathlon is just not doing their marketing right. They colsed 14 stores in the US a couple of weeks after I started. It is still questionable if they will last in the US long term, especially with Dicks and Sports Authority expanding in the area. 

I am happy to be out of there and even happier working 2 miles from my house and am out of work every day at 4:00 PM.


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## |brake-out| (Feb 23, 2004)

*Yeah, he went "KABOOM"*

And won the freakin' stage today. What a loser this guy is....



(sarcasm spread on thickly enough ?)


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*I don't think anyone...*



|brake-out| said:


> And won the freakin' stage today. What a loser this guy is....
> 
> 
> 
> (sarcasm spread on thickly enough ?)


I don't think anyone ever called him a loser. Myself, I was merely (in a very sarcastic way as well) commenting on his explosion of the other day when the pace went high, and he went out the back. It was awesome to see. The whole bunch just exploded, and Vino wasn't the only one. He had a good win today, although I'd have to say I was hoping for a Botero win today to match his previous stage win there in 2000, well, that and I like Botero as a rider more.


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*Look...*



FondriestFan said:


> LOL. Dude you're a total poser. You're just some wannabe cyclist talking weak smack. Vino would laugh in your face. You couldn't hold Vino's wheel with a bungee cord.
> 
> Please, kid. Grow up. Racers like Vino gave it all today. It was painfully obvious from the looks on their faces. The notion of some web geek posting on message board lecturing them about why they got dropped is laughably sad.


If you want to disagree with my position that Vino blew up the other day, that's fine and dandy. You don't know me, and I don't know you, so stop with the personal attacks about my character, my riding ability, and who I may, or may not be. Personal attacks, I must remind you, are not allowed on this forum. Please see posting guidelines. If you want to disagree with my position on how the race blew up, that's fine. I would love to argue those points with you, but instead you attack me, and not what I wrote. I'm far from a kid, and I seem to be the one acting more maturely in this situation, as there about a million insulting things I could have written about you, but have stopped myself, because as I said before, I don't know you. You could be, and might be a gem of a person. So why waste time insulting someone I don't know. I wouldn't do it. I save my best insults for people I'm acquainted with. 

I told you before, I'm not a wanna be, I'm a never was. Yes, Vino, would most likely drop me in a race. But when was the last time you lined up at a pro race with some of the top pros in the US and some from around the world? I've done it on several occassions this year and last year, so I might have a little more insight into how they go and what makes them go, and let me tell you, it's actually quite amazing the power and speed these guys can throw out. I've raced against Hincapie. I've raced against Eki. I've raced againt Armstrong. I've raced against Mattan. I've raced against Vogels. Lieswyn. Jonas Carney, and so on and so forth. I could keep on listing, but it would take awhile. So before you assail someone's knowledge, and or "wanna-be-ness" you should find out who you're talking about first. 

What's your first hand knowledge of the sport? I'm just curious to see what perspective you come from.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

magnolialover said:


> I told you before, I'm not a wanna be, I'm a never was. Yes, Vino, would most likely drop me in a race. But when was the last time you lined up at a pro race with some of the top pros in the US and some from around the world? I've done it on several occassions this year and last year, so I might have a little more insight into how they go and what makes them go, and let me tell you, it's actually quite amazing the power and speed these guys can throw out. I've raced against Hincapie. I've raced against Eki. I've raced againt Armstrong. I've raced against Mattan. I've raced against Vogels. Lieswyn. Jonas Carney, and so on and so forth. I could keep on listing, but it would take awhile. So before you assail someone's knowledge, and or "wanna-be-ness" you should find out who you're talking about first.
> 
> What's your first hand knowledge of the sport? I'm just curious to see what perspective you come from.


Mag, those of us who frequent the board are certainly impressed with your riding and racing ability. As for you being the mature one on the board, I doubt it. You pretty much slammed everyone who's said they liked vino's attacks. The I told you sos are not signs of being a poser, but really a child! The know it all attitude is annoying at best, whether you're right or not. Then your racing background being called in as evidence of your character is ridiculous. Being arrogant and then displaying your cycling abilities as some kind of virtue won't win you any friends here.

Your original statement may not have been intended to sound the way it did, but I thought it was pretty over the top.

Silas


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## rule (Dec 2, 2004)

Bag on Vino this Tour all you want. You will be cheering for him next year if Discovery signs him.


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*Once again though...*



SilasCL said:


> Mag, those of us who frequent the board are certainly impressed with your riding and racing ability. As for you being the mature one on the board, I doubt it. You pretty much slammed everyone who's said they liked vino's attacks. The I told you sos are not signs of being a poser, but really a child! The know it all attitude is annoying at best, whether you're right or not. Then your racing background being called in as evidence of your character is ridiculous. Being arrogant and then displaying your cycling abilities as some kind of virtue won't win you any friends here.
> 
> Your original statement may not have been intended to sound the way it did, but I thought it was pretty over the top.
> 
> Silas


I really wouldn't be too impressed with my racing credentials. I've lined up at some big races, but I stink at them. Simple as that. 

I never said I didn't like Vino's attacks, but I did call into question whether or not the first day he tried was really a good idea. They appeared to not work so well, and might have cost him the 5 minute gap he got the other day. Earlier before the Tour started, I made some statements about Vino not challenging for the overall GC, and I was berated for that. It seems as though I was right, I like pointing out when I'm right, and I do point out when I'm wrong (check past posts where others have corrected me, and I've gone back to say, yes, I was incorrect, I don't think this is the attitude of a know it all, although I do know quite a bit about well, everything  ).

I wasn't calling my racing background into being as a virtue of my character, but as a position of possibly knowing something about the sport, as I don't only watch it, follow it, but participate in it on a weekly basis. Never did I attack anyone personally, but only responded to other's personal attacks against me. 

As I said before, if you have trouble swallowing my position on what happened to Vino and the rest of T-Mobile the other day, that's fine, let's argue about that, not about what kind of poser I may or may not be, or child, or something of that nature. For your opinion, my criticisms were weak compared to Walter Goodefroot's about the other day. So if the manager of T-Mobile directs severe withering criticism at his team to an extent that goes far beyond what I wrote, I must have some kernel of truth in my original post, as good old Walter was way way over the top.

Anyway, I just won't stand for personal attacks against me from someone I don't know, or have never met. Attack my statements, not me. And I'll put forth a good argument with you. It's really as simple as that.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*He was contested.*



|brake-out| said:


> And won the freakin' stage today. What a loser this guy is....
> 
> 
> 
> (sarcasm spread on thickly enough ?)


He wasn't gifted the race but he sure wasn't contested.


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