# *Spoiler regarding Ted King



## EuroSVT (Sep 15, 2011)

That's some b.s. that he was cut due to the 25% TTT cut-off limit. From what I'm reading online, it was a very questionable call by ASO officials. According to King's Twitter post he seems to think it was as well. Does anyone have the actual split time information?

Also, why would Cannondale push hard enough to drop an injured King that badly, the green jersey is not in danger on a TTT stage, is it?


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## asciibaron (Aug 11, 2006)

sucks to race clean


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

EuroSVT said:


> That's some b.s. that he was cut due to the 25% TTT cut-off limit. From what I'm reading online, it was a very questionable call by ASO officials. According to King's Twitter post he seems to think it was as well. Does anyone have the actual split time information?
> 
> Also, why would Cannondale push hard enough to drop an injured King that badly, the green jersey is not in danger on a TTT stage, is it?


That's total B.S. cutting King because he was 7sec beyond the 25% cut off :mad5: .


He was riding with a shoulder injury (Separated shoulder) and almost made. Isn't that what they look for in deciding the cut off? Overcoming adversity and riding on courage  ?!!


The TDF can kiss my azz and they can go to hell at this point. Fvck'em :mad5: . I'm done with their B.S. tour.


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## EuroSVT (Sep 15, 2011)

I'm kind of ticked off, TdF has let several others continue in the past with much more of a deficit. I'm also looking at Cannondale and asking why they would even push it that hard on a TTT? They ended up 13th, and while I know that results are not known during the race, what did they have to gain by setting a blistering time?


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## AdamM (Jul 9, 2008)

I think the team deserves much of the blame. The riders are always red lined at the start anyway and having King tailgun as they rode those initial corners was the worst position for him. He needed to be protected during the initial surge and then sit in on the tail end of the pace line over the long straights.


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## bballr4567 (Jul 17, 2012)

Really sad and I agree with Adam. Team made a horrible choice letting him stay in last through the turns.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

I hate this. I've met Ted and was excited to follow his progress through the Tour this year. The jury has made exceptions in this sort of situation for brave rides but I suppose that Ted's ride didn't meet their standard. 

I thought I saw a news article earlier today that claimed that he was allowed to continue. Disappointed.


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## Full_Spectrum (Oct 30, 2012)

Guessing that with the amount of media attention this is getting that the organizers may take a look at this. Hoping, at least...


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Full_Spectrum said:


> Guessing that with the amount of media attention this is getting that the organizers may take a look at this. Hoping, at least...


I think you are right. Also according to Ted's computer, he was 8 seconds faster (I think), thereby making the time cut. I hope they give his situation a second look.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Don't the timekeepers just use the time of the first five anymore?


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## fontarin (Mar 28, 2009)

Eh, wasn't his injury caused by that BS on stage 1 with the moving finish line crash anyway? With 7 seconds, I'd let him in based on that if nothing else. They have ample reason to claim the circumstances allowed it in this case.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

They have given grace to injured riders in the past. Cyclingnews has his finish as TBD. Cannondale already posted him as withdrawn.


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

Here's his cycling data. If there was any doubt, I'm sure there is plenty of video to show he did not reach down to stop it prior to passing the finish line. His death will very clearly be a political one, nothing more nothing less. If there was ever 

https://twitter.com/iamtedking/status/352129185776537600

"The UCI race jury and ASO, the owner of the Tour de France, need to recognize that decisions they made on Saturday in Bastia directly caused King’s injury. "


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## Ventruck (Mar 9, 2009)

yeah, his ride data suggested he wasn't even supposed to be cut off.

While I think a correction should be honored, Ted should pull out - difference being it's on his own terms at least.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

AdamM said:


> I think the team deserves much of the blame. The riders are always red lined at the start anyway and having King tailgun as they rode those initial corners was the worst position for him. He needed to be protected during the initial surge and then sit in on the tail end of the pace line over the long straights.


Actually ... I would say he was put in the back on purpose.

They knew he was injured, knew he wasn't going to stay with them (hence the reason for the road bike with aero bars) and it was too much of a risk to have him in the middle/front of the group with a separated shoulder ... one screw up or painful twitch and he takes down half the team!

I've had a separated shoulder and it's damn tough to ride on ... major Kudos to him for riding through the pain ... but it wasn't the teams fault ... they did what they had to do, which was think about the entire team and not just one rider.

I hope they make an exception tonight, but don't blame team Cannondale for his not making the cut.


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## JackDaniels (Oct 4, 2011)

I saw the clip-on aero bars and wondered why they didn't give him a saddle bag, helmet mirror and sleeveless jersey...


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## asciibaron (Aug 11, 2006)

JackDaniels said:


> I saw the clip-on aero bars and wondered why they didn't give him a saddle bag, helmet mirror and sleeveless jersey...


he should have started a beard too...


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

JackDaniels said:


> I saw the clip-on aero bars and wondered why they didn't give him a saddle bag, helmet mirror and sleeveless jersey...


too funny. this does show, also, that there are no sub-15 lb recumbents.


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## culdeus (May 5, 2005)

PJay said:


> too funny. this does show, also, that there are no sub-15 lb recumbents.


Bullshit


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

He doesn't need to be racing with a separated shoulder.


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## Rokh On (Oct 30, 2011)

What happened seems questionable, definitely sketchy, and totally sucks. Sorry to see him not make the time cut.

There is a flip side to this that may be a blessing in disguise. I happen to agree with David. While Ted showed huge courage and fortitude for continuing and riding through obvious pain the fact is he couldn't even ride his time trial bike because it hurt so bad. The team rigged his road bike to help him be more comfortable. 

Here is where you can start with the what if's? What if the team slowed down? What if they did and he couldn't continue. Hind site it is easy to say but it was only seconds. I don't fault the team for not slowing down. I wouldn't want to take a chance on being minutes behind Froome. 

Personally, I have huge respect for him and want to see him recover and have a great cycling career. I absolutely do not want to see him continue riding injured that could put him a in very bad situation that may even cause more injury ... or worse.

I wish Ted King a speedy recovery and a great cycling career.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

David Loving said:


> He doesn't need to be racing with a separated shoulder.


Be sure you go tweet that to Ted Im sure he will feel great knowing that your looking out for him. BTW what are you medical creds?


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Guess Im the contrarian on this one....I think King should be out. Those "just give it to them" deals are saved for when something happens during that stage. But that wasn't the case here. The team went into the day with the full knowledge TK might not make the cut. And by dropping him from the get-go the team announced to everyone they knew the deal. And he wound up not making it...so hes out. 

As far as the argument "well...if he was French..."....yes.....its their race. So the "home team" sometimes gets a break others don't. That happens in all sports played on this planet, not seeing why this one should be different. 

Flame away.....


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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

Irrespective of whether he should or should not be out... was the data from his power meter was doctored? That shows a time which does make the cut. Bike switch, time chip or whatever, it can't be that hard to determine when he crossed the line.


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## zigmeister (Jan 26, 2012)

The rule says 25%...not 26% or 27% of the time for getting cut.

I don't have any sympathy for him. He decided to race with a Road bike, instead of his TT bike. There goes your 7 seconds right there easily, more like 30 seconds.

Yes, he was injured, but did you see Sagan go down and keep racing? Or Tony Martin with a bruised lung do the TT on their regular bikes? Yes you did.

King has some psychological toughness issues he needs to deal with. Judging by some of the comments he made about there being some "psychological" things regarding the accident that are playing on his mind...he is already writing his own fate and results with that attitude.


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## EuroSVT (Sep 15, 2011)

25% of what though, it's not like an injured rider can get out there on course and have a bullseye that he has to hit. The jury had said he was 7 seconds over, Ted's data said he was 8 seconds in the clear. In any case Cannondale could have lodged a formal complaint, but they didn't. I get it that Euro judges will rule as it pleases them, but I'm butt-hurt with Cannondale Pro Cycling for not pushing the issue. Unless there are many variables that I'm not aware of, and I'm sure there must be. Ted still wanted to race & acted if he was able bodied (according to his Twitter).

In any case, the interview with one of the officials that was posted on VN does little to smooth things over with me.


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## misterwaterfallin (Sep 14, 2012)

Rokh On said:


> Here is where you can start with the what if's? What if the team slowed down? What if they did and he couldn't continue. Hind site it is easy to say but it was only seconds. I don't fault the team for not slowing down. I wouldn't want to take a chance on being minutes behind Froome.
> 
> Personally, I have huge respect for him and want to see him recover and have a great cycling career. I absolutely do not want to see him continue riding injured that could put him a in very bad situation that may even cause more injury ... or worse.
> 
> I wish Ted King a speedy recovery and a great cycling career.


Why does it really matter if the deal as a whole has to sacrifice 30 seconds to help one of their strong helpers get across the line. No one on that team has a chance at GC and they won't win overall team GC, so there was little harm if they gave up a few seconds to help Ted out.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

zigmeister said:


> The rule says 25%...not 26% or 27% of the time for getting cut.
> 
> I don't have any sympathy for him. He decided to race with a Road bike, instead of his TT bike. There goes your 7 seconds right there easily, more like 30 seconds.
> 
> ...


I would agree that he probably lost more than 7 seconds by not using his TT bike. I would assume he and his team were aware of this when they made the decision and that eh was probably unable to ride his TT bike like that. Probably doesn't help that Green Edge had a roster full of guys to drive this one home. 

As for him lacking toughness, I doubt that. His injuries aren't theirs. I can't imagine being able to ride a TT with a shoulder problem like that.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

misterwaterfallin said:


> Why does it really matter if the deal as a whole has to sacrifice 30 seconds to help one of their strong helpers get across the line. No one on that team has a chance at GC and they won't win overall team GC, so there was little harm if they gave up a few seconds to help Ted out.


My thoughts exactly. That team is there to put Sagan in the green jersey. No way will Moser podium so who cares if you lose a minute? Guess Sagan has someone else to get bottles for him. Poor team management. Euskatel knows they have zero chance in the TTT, so they sit up and save their legs for the mountains.


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## tazzmacd (Feb 24, 2012)

I wonder what will happen on one of the high mountain stages when 30-20 riders arrive outside the cut off time. Think they will cut all of them?

I don;t think so, because it will be most of the sprinter teams.


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## BacDoc (Aug 1, 2011)

Bob Roll, love him or hate him, said it best. "The tour is not fair" he also said you can't blame the team, they train to hammer the time trial and the number one objective is push the limit to the finish, the same objective of all teams. Who knows what will happen at this stage?

Kudos to Ted! The definition of HTFU! Wish he could continue but this is the tour de France and the decision has been made. Tough race and not fair but that is what makes it so unique. Ted is a great bike racer and he will be back hopefully stronger than ever!


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

zigmeister said:


> The rule says 25%...not 26% or 27% of the time for getting cut.
> 
> I don't have any sympathy for him. He decided to race with a Road bike, instead of his TT bike. There goes your 7 seconds right there easily, more like 30 seconds.
> 
> ...



Okay; I can understand agreeing with the officials and accepting their disqualification of King based on the rules as fair. What I disagree with is the sentiment that we can make such staunch judgments on both a rider's toughness and character based on his bike choice and missing the time cut. Sagan's and Martin's injuries are not the same injuries as King's and we cannot judge how they affect them, nor can we compare them to each other. He was on his bike riding and trying, which is something that 99% of people would not be able to do after a separated shoulder. 

Go ahead and agree with the officials. Their decision was completely within the rules. Ted King is one of the major workhorses of the peloton. Judging him from the outside and saying that he has "psychological toughness issues" or criticizing his decision to ride a regular road bike because other riders with different injuries road time trial bikes does not make sense to me though. It seems like an unjustifiably strong judgment in consideration of everything in this situation, in my opinion.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

If he makes it within the time then he makes it. But why all the fuss? If we're dishing out Man Cards Geraint Thomas has been riding with a broken pelvis since his crash on the first day. He finished the TTT for Sky. Do you think they would be slowing down for him?


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

thechriswebb said:


> Okay; I can understand agreeing with the officials and accepting their disqualification of King based on the rules as fair. What I disagree with is the sentiment that we can make such staunch judgments on both a rider's toughness and character based on his bike choice and missing the time cut. Sagan's and Martin's injuries are not the same injuries as King's and we cannot judge how they affect them, nor can we compare them to each other. He was on his bike riding and trying, which is something that 99% of people would not be able to do after a separated shoulder.
> 
> Go ahead and agree with the officials. Their decision was completely within the rules. Ted King is one of the major workhorses of the peloton. Judging him from the outside and saying that he has "psychological toughness issues" or criticizing his decision to ride a regular road bike because other riders with different injuries road time trial bikes does not make sense to me though. It seems like an unjustifiably strong judgment in consideration of everything in this situation, in my opinion.


My hat goes off to anyone who can ride on through pain. But things are going to get harder from now on. The Tour has one winner but it takes a team to put him on the podium. There is no room for sentiment if it compromises the strength of the team. You are there on merit alone. Sure we can all applaud heroics but it becomes selfishness if you are putting one man's glory before team success. Thomas will be out of the Sky start list if he becomes of no use to the team in days to come. Them's the breaks (no pun intended).


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## Peterjvh (Apr 7, 2013)

zigmeister said:


> The rule says 25%...not 26% or 27% of the time for getting cut.


You are right. Rules are rules. But, what I see is the TDF has a tendency to make rule exceptions arbitrarily (arbitrary might be a generous word). 
The TDF also often appears to ignore minor breaches. For example:
What about riders drafting behind their team cars?
How about prolonged handoffs of water bottles when the rider holds the bottle while being "pulled" from a moving team car?
Is it allowed for the team support to run, pushing a rider after a wheel or bike replacement?
(Did I miss any?)
It kind of makes me think rules are not a priority at the TDF...so why not give him a break. After all if his injuries are as bad as is thought he isn't going to win much this TDF anyway.
Just say'n


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## bballr4567 (Jul 17, 2012)

tazzmacd said:


> I wonder what will happen on one of the high mountain stages when 30-20 riders arrive outside the cut off time. Think they will cut all of them?
> 
> I don;t think so, because it will be most of the sprinter teams.


Exactly. Watch how many riders dont make it on stage 18. Twice up Alpe? Gonna be really hard for those guys.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

bballr4567 said:


> Exactly. Watch how many riders dont make it on stage 18. Twice up Alpe? Gonna be really hard for those guys.


I predict a third of the peloton will not finish within the time zone on that stage.


It has happened before where, I believe, almost half of the peloton finished outside of the time zone.


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## EuroSVT (Sep 15, 2011)

Nobody on Cannondale is a GC guy. A first week cycling fan could figure that out. The 25% time limit is based upon the winning TTT set by Orica, so Cannondales time had no bearing on Ted being cut. Now what I think they might should have done was to agree to set a lower team time, and leave 2 riders back to help drag King in. King isn't a competing for any TdF glory, he's a Soldier. When you need a guy to go nose to the wind and chase down a break for who knows how long, he's that guy. He will burry himself for his team and then some. He wasn't having a great TdF on the road due to the injury, but several healthy riders have been doing worse.

Interesting perspective from Jens Joigt on VeloNews this a.m., go read it.


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## The Weasel (Jul 20, 2006)

zigmeister said:


> The rule says 25%...not 26% or 27% of the time for getting cut.


A couple of years ago, a large bunch of sprinters and others (easily 30+) finished well beyond the cutoff in a mountain stage. None were injured and there was no display of 'courage'. In fact it was the exact opposite. But they were all allowed to continue because golden boys like Cavendish and Gilbert were in it. The rules are clearly not applied equally.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

If a group of riders form at the back of the race is large enough, based on the percentage of riders, 20% of starters, the rule states that the referees have the final decision whether to eliminate them. Usually they do not.

http://www.letour.com/le-tour/2013/docs/TDF13_reglement_BD.pdf


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Does anybody have any idea why Cannondale didn't file a protest? 




zigmeister said:


> The rule says 25%...not 26% or 27% of the time for getting cut.


I'm fine with that too, as long as they don't make any exceptions for any other rider at any other time during the Tour.


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## EuroSVT (Sep 15, 2011)

love4himies said:


> Does anybody have any idea why Cannondale didn't file a protest?


I've asked them that same question. Cannondale & Cannondale Pro Cycling are the least communicative groups I've run into, ever. Thought that since I had purchased 7 of their bikes they might at least reply to an e-mail of mine every now & then, silence. I'd love to know why they didn't file an official protest.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

EuroSVT said:


> Nobody on Cannondale is a GC guy. A first week cycling fan could figure that out. The 25% time limit is based upon the winning TTT set by Orica, so Cannondales time had no bearing on Ted being cut. Now what I think they might should have done was to agree to set a lower team time, and leave 2 riders back to help drag King in. King isn't a competing for any TdF glory, he's a Soldier. When you need a guy to go nose to the wind and chase down a break for who knows how long, he's that guy. He will burry himself for his team and then some. He wasn't having a great TdF on the road due to the injury, but several healthy riders have been doing worse.
> 
> Interesting perspective from Jens Joigt on VeloNews this a.m., go read it.


Right now King is a wounded soldier. Not much use in a long war (to labour the military imagery). Unlike some folks I don't hang on every utterance issuing forth from the lips of Jens Voigt.


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## EuroSVT (Sep 15, 2011)

I didn't mention Jens because of the name, rather that he's a Tour vet that expressed how the peloton felt about the jury decision on King. I take him with a grain of salt as well. But keep in mind that the jury that eliminated Ted king consulted David Millar for whatever reason, so in this fellow pro's perspectives have been taken into account.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

EuroSVT said:


> I didn't mention Jens because of the name, rather that he's a Tour vet that expressed how the peloton felt about the jury decision on King. I take him with a grain of salt as well. But keep in mind that the jury that eliminated Ted king consulted David Millar for whatever reason, so in this fellow pro's perspectives have been taken into account.


Fair do's. I think King has been harshly treated and I'm sure the peloton feel the same way. The race organisers haven't exactly covered themselves in glory thus far, but that's nothing new for the Tour. 

The point about fairness is a little naive, there's no way anyone is going to throw out the sprinters who don't make the cut in the mountains. That would render the whole race farcical and everyone knows it. This is a business, it's about having your brand on the shirt of the winner in the bunch sprints as well as on Alpe d'Huez. That's why Cav gets paid 2 million pounds a year. This same argument crops up every year.


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