# 3 pawls vs 6 pawls?



## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

Can someone educate me as to the potential differences in performance/reliability/durability between a hub with 3 pawls vs. one with 6 pawls? I'm looking at two difference sets of c.300 gram hubs (front and rear) from Taiwan, both in the $130-150 range. One has three pawls (304g), one six (288g).

See:

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-CNC-Road-Bi...44?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories#ht_4219wt_766

and

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...9&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123#ht_500wt_1154


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Details*



SBH1973 said:


> Can someone educate me as to the potential differences in performance/reliability/durability between a hub with 3 pawls vs. one with 6 pawls? I'm looking at two difference sets of c.300 gram hubs (front and rear) from Taiwan, both in the $130-150 range. One has three pawls (304g), one six (288g).


The quality of the materials used and the design details are a lot more important than the pawl count. Campy hubs have three pawls, and they seem reasonably durable with high performance. Counting pawls is about like chosing tires strictly based on thread count. There are way too many other variables. It's just a hook that the marketing guys use.


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## rmsmith (Feb 15, 2007)

I prefer the ring drive mechanism like the DT Swiss Hugi star or Chris King ring drives. Pawls do fail, and a rear wheel lock-up is the typical result, skidding to a stop. Unfortunately these ring drive hubs cost more than twice what you have linked here.


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## cfoster (Dec 20, 2007)

Kerry Irons said:


> The quality of the materials used and the design details are a lot more important than the pawl count.


Agree 110%. 

Quick note about the front hub, not to overshadow your optimism with doubt, but I've heard that a particular one or two front hub models of similar appearance have a very short bearing life expectancy, rated for about 1K miles. This was a design tradeoff to keep the weight down. That's not the end of the world, just something to consider. If my hub identification is off, then this word of caution could be totally bogus, sorry.


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

Thanks for your replies. I thought 6 prawls meant more points of contact, quicker engagement, but perhaps more freewheel friction.

The 288 gram hubs are the same as Soul's lightweight hubs. I just can't imagine that they'd only be good for 1000 miles. Where do you have the information from?


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## MCF (Oct 12, 2006)

If a Pawl fails, I don't think it would cause lock up. I believe it is the opposite, it won't engage. WORST case scenario would be if you were climbing a hill and all the pawls fail - you would instantaneously free spin cranks and probably go over the bars. The other end of the spectrum - flying downhill coasting and all the pawls failed, I don't think anything would happen except the rear hub would be silent. Maybe my logic is completly wrong, but I would prefer six over three but would also consider many other factors as well.


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## sanrensho (Jan 2, 2003)

SBH1973 said:


> The 288 gram hubs are the same as Soul's lightweight hubs.


Do you mean the Soul Prodigy hubs?

They don't look the same to me.

https://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz62/mister_ride/Other/Hub/3.jpg

https://www.bikesoul.com/2009/images/stories/wheeldivision/prodigyblack.jpg

Nice finds, OP, do you happen to have any links to lightweight disc hubs?


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

sanrensho said:


> Do you mean the Soul Prodigy hubs?
> 
> They don't look the same to me.
> 
> ...


They might not be, but they sure are close to the 288 gram, 6 pawl set as the Soul Prodigy V3:

See: https://www.bikesoul.com/2009/images/stories/wheeldivision/prodigyblack.jpg

https://cgi.ebay.com/New-CNC-Road-B...44?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories#ht_4219wt_766


https://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/327621751/Road_Hub_10spd.html


I contacted Moyon directly and they will sell me a set for $100 shipped - $56 + $44 express shipping. I'm a bit hesitant, as their Paypal account is not verified. But they've been very responsive and I think they're for real.


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## sanrensho (Jan 2, 2003)

SBH1973 said:


> I contacted Moyon directly and they will sell me a set for $100 shipped - $56 + $44 express shipping. I'm a bit hesitant, as their Paypal account is not verified. But they've been very responsive and I think they're for real.


The Moyon hub is obviously the same as the eBay set. Judging from their site, it sure sounds like they are a wheel assembler and not the actual manufacturer. Why not ask if they also make the Soul Prodigy hubs?


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

Well, I just bought a set of the 288g hubs for $100, shipped. Hopefully I'll get them! 

Honestly, if they're nice, I might order 20-30 pairs for $50/piece and peddle them on Ebay myself!


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## rmsmith (Feb 15, 2007)

MCF said:


> If a Pawl fails, I don't think it would cause lock up.


My son's Redline bicycle locked up solid right after a some crunching noise. I took the rear hub apart, and broken pieces fell out; it was junk.


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## sanrensho (Jan 2, 2003)

I just got a response from the seller of the 288g hubs. These are Chosen hubs, 77g front/211g rear.

https://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt128/bghostb/Q-A/hub size/liu-24-28H.png

The seller responded quickly to my inquiry, which is definitely a good sign.


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

I'm guessing my DA hub has 6 pawls? It has lots of clicks.

Sounds like secks.


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

sanrensho said:


> I just got a response from the seller of the 288g hubs. These are Chosen hubs, 77g front/211g rear.
> 
> https://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt128/bghostb/Q-A/hub size/liu-24-28H.png
> 
> The seller responded quickly to my inquiry, which is definitely a good sign.



He sent me that picture as well, but they are not the same hub. Maybe they have the same diameters and other specs. This hub from Chosen is close:

https://www.chosen-hubs.com/pro.php?sid=79&tid=80&p_no=259

Sure, the $44 shipping was outrageous, but I think $100 total isn't bad at all. I'm going to build these on 38mm rims with either DT Revs or Sapim CX-Rays (although the build might be months down the road). I'll post some pics when I get them.


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## sanrensho (Jan 2, 2003)

SBH1973 said:


> He sent me that picture as well, but they are not the same hub. Maybe they have the same diameters and other specs.


Hmm, on closer inspection of that pic, I can see how it's inconclusive. They could be using the Chosen spec diagram as a template.

Good luck with your build, let us know if you receive the hubs and how you like them.


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## MarshallH1987 (Jun 17, 2009)

the numbers of pawls doesn't seem to matter when it comes to durability or quick engagement. The mavic hubs on my everyday wheels only have 2 pawls and they've handled a ton of riding around, sprinting and even standing starts in huge gears. The engagement has to do with the distance between the pawls and the engagement surfaces. The more clicks usually comes from the pawls going over this engagement, compressing a spring and then getting pushed out by the spring after the ramp or whatever drops off.


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## valleycyclist (Nov 1, 2009)

I think the DT Swiss 370 also has only 2 pawls. The 340 and up use their ring drive.


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

*Received Moyon Hubs - 289 grams, Look Nice*

I received my hubs today - they look nice, I imagine very much like all of the super light alloy road hubs from Taiwan (Chosen, Soul, Dixi, etc.) They may very well have been manufactured by Chosen, but according to Moyon's design. They're weighing in at 289 grams for the set on my scale (212 rear, 77 front) - that's as claimed (288 grams - who knows who's scale is closer).

I'll say more about them after the build.


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## fast ferd (Jan 30, 2009)

That's some high quality anodizing...er, paint...er, whatever.


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

fast ferd said:


> That's some high quality anodizing...er, paint...er, whatever.


It might be the picture, but they look fine - like Novatecs or Souls. They are not anodized, and nothing special, but the paint is not sloppy either.

But hey, thanks for the positive comment.


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

And I spoke too soon - I received a 20/24 set, not the 24/28 I ordered (and which is clearly on the invoice). Always something!


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## jeromewilliams74 (Nov 19, 2021)

Answered correctly a year later. How Things Work: The Freehub Body - Dirt


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