# KHS Flite Carbon Fusion frame, anybody got one?



## davcruz

I just purchased a KHS Flite 750 "Carbon Fusion" frame set on eBay. Brand new 2006 left-over. Came with the FSA integrated headset and an el cheapo alloy seat post and Tiagra front derailluer. Paid $399 for it plus shipping.

I am going to move my DA/Ultegra stuff over to it from my current Trek 1500 frame.

So, does anyone have this frame and fork? Opinions? Etc?

I hope I made a good move. I have had 2 KHS bikes, an older 2001 Flite 700 and an older Alite steel frame MB. Both were very nice bikes.


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## davcruz

Wow...hoppin forum we have here....


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## clip78

*Same deal*

I also just got this frameset. I haven't received it yet. Have you built it up and ridden yet?


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## davcruz

Did you buy it from Bob Better Bikes?

I have built it up already and I have put about 100 miles on it so far. I moved everything over from my Trek 1500, so DA 7700 9 speed shifters, Ultegra 6600 10 speed double crank, Ultegra 6500 FD, DA 7800 RD, Mavic Aksium Race wheel set, Bontrager CF seat post, Select bars, Race Lite Stem, 105 brake calipers, Terry Liberator saddle. I have not weighed it yet but it feels close to the 1500.

My first impression is WOW, very stiff laterally and much more compliant over bumps than my 1500. Seems to accelerate faster and easier also and hills feel easier as well. The frame geometry is quite different than my 1500, so that explains why this bike seems so much faster.

I am very pleased overall with the frame and fork, I think the finish is lacking a bit in quality, there are some very small (almost imperceptible) fisheyes in the clear coat in places. They are very hard to see and I doubt anyone would notice, but I was looking for flaws and noticed them. Other than that one complaint I have nothing but good things to say so far. Time will tell.

One thing that I really like about the frame is the very unique shapes of the tubes.


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## clip78

Yeah, I did buy it from Bob's betterbikes. This will be replacing my Trek 1000 which I liked quite a lot, but sizing issues are causing me to go to the slightly smaller frame. And might as well get an upgrade in the process!

I'm going to put on my Neuvation Cycling R28 SL3 wheels, 105 9 spd shifters, ultegra crank and RD, 105 FD, new seatpost, FSA stem, and easton handlebars. I'm excited that you have had such a good first impression. I'm not so picky about the paint job that I'm disappointed about that. It will be some time before I get mine built up as I'm still collecting some parts. 

Thanks for the info!


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## davcruz

Sounds like you have been upgrading your 1000 like I did with my 1500. Let us know when you receive the frame, Mine only took about 3 days to get to me. Bob's packed it very well and I was pleased with their service. Yours probably will not have the minor flaw in the paint like mine does, it looked like an oversight at the factory.


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## clip78

Yup, I caught the upgrade bug quickly much to my wife's chagrin! 

I haven't heard anything from Bob's yet, so I don't know if it has shipped yet or not. I always get antsy when I buy stuff like this, so I may call the store to see.


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## davcruz

clip78 said:


> Yup, I caught the upgrade bug quickly much to my wife's chagrin!


Ditto! :blush2:


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## clip78

So I'm back from vacation and I did get my frame. I'm very pleased with the way it looks. I agree that the paint job is not the best ever, but it is certainly not bad. I hope to get some time this weekend to move components over and take it for a ride.


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## davcruz

clip78, did you ever do your build-up? Waiting to see some pictures.

Here is mine, I just ordered a Thomson Elite black seat post to get rid of the generic carbon Bontrager. My next order of business is a set of K-Elites or Easton Ascent II's. I am also thinking of trying out the Terry Fly 2 saddle as I love my current Terry saddle.


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## rahmin

*Built a KHS 750 as well*

I just built up my KHS Flite 750 frame and cannot believe how nice it is. I am really impressed with the ride and the overall quality. My last frame was about the same weight, if not lighter, but it was 7005 and buzzed just as everyone says. So, this is my first carbon and so far, I am pleased.

I actually think this frame is a mistake on Trigon's part because I cannot find any year of the Flite 750 that share's these characteristics. The Flite 900 and Flite team do look the same as this. Not sure if this is the case, but it makes sense when you look at the frameset price and leads me to believe that a small batch of frames were mispainted as 750's.

I haven't had quite the ride as you have davcruz. They were forecasting snow here in Chicago so I didn't want to head out to far. I will post more when a get the opportunity to ride more. Here is a pic of my build.


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## davcruz

What fork are you running with the above frame? Did you get this from Bob's?


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## rahmin

I did buy it directly from Bob's... Super prompt and professional. As for the fork, it is from my Fuji Team Superlite that I replaced. It has a carbon steerer so I thought I would move forward with that instead of the stock. I may switch back to the original though.

I haven't really been able to ride outside yet. Today was -8 so it may be a while still.


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## davcruz

DANG! That is cold and to think I am griping because it is 40 here....


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## eurojuce

*KHS Flite 750/900*



rahmin said:


> I just built up my KHS Flite 750 frame and cannot believe how nice it is. I am really impressed with the ride and the overall quality. My last frame was about the same weight, if not lighter, but it was 7005 and buzzed just as everyone says. So, this is my first carbon and so far, I am pleased.
> 
> I actually think this frame is a mistake on Trigon's part because I cannot find any year of the Flite 750 that share's these characteristics. The Flite 900 and Flite team do look the same as this. Not sure if this is the case, but it makes sense when you look at the frameset price and leads me to believe that a small batch of frames were mispainted as 750's.
> 
> I haven't had quite the ride as you have davcruz. They were forecasting snow here in Chicago so I didn't want to head out to far. I will post more when a get the opportunity to ride more. Here is a pic of my build.


HI all
I just picked up the same frame and was confused. Got it from Bob's and it was posted as the 750, but as someone already stated, it looks exactly like the 900 and Team as far back as 2006-2007. So maybe I got lucky with a mispainted frame. Anyway, here's what my build will look like:

The frame, of course, with Rival shifters, chain, derailleurs, and OG 11-26 cassette (need all the gears I can have!!!). I'll use an FSA Carbon Team Issue crankset, with a Shimano Dura-Ace 7700 BB, and a Shimano 50t outer chain ring (but will keep the FSA 39 inner). The stem I don't quite know yet because I have to measure the distance and rise I need, but I might go with Ritchie or Specialized. The bars will be PZ Racing CR 3.3 Alloy Hydroformed Road Bar 44cm in the OS 31.8 (I know, not the hottest bar, but I love that ergos on it). I'll use a Giant carbon seat post, and a Specialized BG saddle (either my Sonoma Sport Gel or my Comfort Plus Gel Saddle , which ever one feels better on this bike). Wheelset will be the Shimano 550's with the Specialized All Condition S-WORKS Tire in 700x25 (again not the hottest, but I'm a bigger guy and these work well as a compromise under my 213lbs and crappy roads. They're not quite bomb-proof under me, but they're bullet proof). The pedals are the Look Keo's. 

That's it. Whenever I get all the parts either in, transfered over from one of my other bikes, and installed, I will try to post up. Are there any suggestions with the build? Any pitfalls already run into by any of you who have built yours?
Thanks


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## rahmin

Hey Eurojuice. Gald to hear you might be thinking the same way on the mispaint. It just makes the deal that much sweeter. Please post up photos of your build when you are finished. Stay warm everyone.


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## eurojuce

rahmin said:


> Hey Eurojuice. Gald to hear you might be thinking the same way on the mispaint. It just makes the deal that much sweeter. Please post up photos of your build when you are finished. Stay warm everyone.


It spoke with a rep at Bob's the other day and had him clarify what the issue with the 750 they sell is...get this...it's not a mispaint. The 750 they had listed, the one I bought and several others bought, is actually a 2007 Flite 900 with Flight 750 decals on it!!! Wrong decals=great price on a pretty good frame!!! So, I guess we lucked up. I am expecting to have the build completed within 2 weeks (frame is due on the 14th or 15th) and I'll be out of town on that weekend. So I will def post pics upon completion. 
Ride safe all and muc luv
Juce


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## JDM

> It spoke with a rep at Bob's the other day and had him clarify what the issue with the 750 they sell is...get this...it's not a mispaint. The 750 they had listed, the one I bought and several others bought, is actually a 2007 Flite 900 with Flight 750 decals on it!!!


I just bought on EBAY what I think is one these 900's w/700 decals, as you describe. I didn't investigate 'till after purchase, haven't received it yet (just paid last night), so I'm trying to figure out just what I got.

Item I bough (w/photo) is here (shortlink): https://shorl.com/gridoprykujyfa

For reference, KHS's description of 750 frames:

'08: https://www.khsbicycles.com/05_flite_750_08.htm
'07: https://www.khsbicycles.com/05_flite_750_07.htm
'06: https://www.khsbicycles.com/07_flite_750_06.htm

None of those match photo for my purchase. But as rahmin's photo @ #11 shows, frame seems to match '07 FLITE 900 on KHS site here:

https://www.khsbicycles.com/05_flite_900_07.htm

Does not match Flite 900 for '06/'08, however.

My only concern is I most definitely do *not *want a "composite" frame... eg: Aluminum w/glued rear stays. 

So... if any of you are still notified by email of posts on this thread, I'm wondering if anyone has checked serial #'s. KHS has a link breaking down these #'s, w/only relevant info there the year. Link is here: https://www.khsbicycles.com/Images/serial_numbers.gif

This is not a critical purchase for me... I'm buying this as a backup for nice LEMOND SARTHE I just built w/full carbon-fiber CAMPY RECORD, AM 420's etc. I don't race, but ride a lot for fitness... 300+ miles p/wk. I'm not gon'a ride LEMOND in rain, so I bought this 750 to build for riding in wet conditions, trips to grocery store (eg: have to put lock on frame that always results in scratches/scuffs sooner or later) etc. etc.

Seller said this frame was CARBON. Pics showed lugs. I've seen a couple of these frames around, and bought it w/uncertain notion (eg: not investigated) that this frame had carbon tupes all around, w/lugs that may (or may not) be carbon as well. If lugs are aluminum, no biggie... I'm still happy. But if any of these tubes are aluminum, I'm not happy and will probably try and void the sale. 

The think that makes me a little nervous here... the 7th photo on EBAY page I posted above (2nd from last) shows a lug that has seatpost tube inserted, but that lug shapes directly into downtube: eg: it suggests (hope not) downtube is aluminum. That would blow it for me.

Thanks in advance for any comments.


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## davcruz

I just discovered I am still notified by emails of new posts to my original thread. :thumbsup: 

I did not post back up here about it, but I continued to research the frame I purchased. It is indeed a 2006 750 frame set/fork. What I learned also is that the only difference between the 900 and Pro frames sets and the 750 frame set in 2006 was the fork included. The 750 has a KHS branded fork with a steel steerer and the 900/Pro had a carbon steerer.

I have never fully found out, but I believe the frame is full carbon with AL dropouts, bottom bracket and carbon lugs. I have been to several dealers and they all say the same thing about the frame set.

I still ride mine as my primary road bike and it is doing well and is a joy, particularly at the price! It is built up with D/A and an Ultegra crank and is as light as any other $3K+ road bike I have seen and I have less than $1200 in it.


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## davcruz

I forgot the most important part. I was told that the frame pictured on the KHS site for 2006 as the 750 was not actually the frame that was sold for whatever reason. The seat tube is totally different on the frames that were sold vs the one in the picture on their site.


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## JDM

Davcruz... thanks!!! 

Interesting, sort'a kind'a.

If you have time, would you check photo I mentioned on EBAY page for this frame I purchased. Does it look like yours? (seller said it was an '08 750, it's certainly not). In particular, photo that makes me nervous is 2nd from last: eg. shows BB area, w/what looks like the lug connecting seat stay/chainstay and downtube indeed connecting the first 2 of those, but extending as part of the lug into the downtube itself. Or in other words, looks like (from that photo) the downtube could be aluminum.

Thanks a gazillion.


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## davcruz

I did look at your photos and it is certainly the same frame as mine. I do not think these tubes are aluminum. I have looked inside the BB area and did not notice AL in the tubes. They have a distinct sound when tapped upon and it is not like AL frames that I have had in the past. The BB may be AL, it most certainly has an AL insert as does the seat stay.


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## JDM

*Thanks...*

davcruz for taking the time... really appreciate it.

Take care.


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## JDM

> It is indeed a 2006 750 frame set/fork. What I learned also is that the only difference between the 900 and Pro frames sets and the 750 frame set in 2006 was the fork included.


If you look @ liinks I posted @18, the '06 900 does not look like these 750 frames we're talking about. But the _'07 does_. EG. the straight seatpost is on all the 900's but '07.

@21 you say:


> the frame pictured on the KHS site for 2006 as the 750 was not actually the frame that was sold for whatever reason.


 Maybe that's it, but seems KHS would have to have screwed up photos for 900 as well. 

One of things I like about CAMPY, AM Classic & a couple others: can always go back and get accurate data on outdated products. KHS states in their FAQ that they don't answer EBAY questions... understandable. But having correct info, and correcting bad info available on their web site it seems to me would go a long way to quieting whatever EBAY questions they get. 

This will be my 3rd KHS frame, I like 'em a lot. Just saying...

Ok, thanks again.


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## davcruz

I hear you bro. I do not know that I buy the whole wrong picture thing either, but that is what a local KHS dealer told me. Of course he had also not even gotten a 2006 750 in for stock that year either as Fuji and Giant are the big sellers for hm on higher end bikes, not KHS....

I do know this. The 750 frames that we have came from KHS with a steel steerer tube fork branded KHS. The 900 and Team frames that do appear identical to these came from KHS with an Alpha Q. Maybe KHS just stuck these forks with the "mispainted" frames to get rid of them. No idea.


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## slowhand

Very interesting! Looks like my 2005 Marin Stelvio.


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## davcruz

Wow! Sure does, the only difference I see is the KHS frame has a curve in the seat stay tubes.


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## JDM

*Interesting indeed.*



> Very interesting! Looks like my 2005 Marin Stelvio.


I've never seen that Marin, but your post piqued my curiosity as I've tried to get info on KHS 750 frame construction/materials (in vain).

'09 Marin Stelvio has a straight seat tube. 

'08 model has downtube shaped as you picture, but I can't see any lugs in their photo. Which makes sense, as they describe frame as Full Carbon Monocoque.

Have to go back to '06 to find frame that looks like yours and is lugged. And this frame they call: CXR VENUS CARBON.  

If it is the same frame, that '06 Stelvio is $3950. Even w/CHORUS/RECORD group, that FSA Crankset can almost be counted on to break. That's one lot of $$ extra for same frame. 

The near identical resmeblence does make one wonder just who made these frames, however.


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## JDM

FWIW, I received my 750 frame. Looks exactly like davcruz & rhamin's. Interesting, serial # on my frame says '09 according to KHS' serial # FAQ, but KHS discontinued the 750 for '09.

I've tried to determine construction of this frame... all in vain.

I contacted BOB's, and he responded. He said he bought these originally mostly to break 'em down and sell parts separately. Said he didn't know construction for sure, and that KHS rep (when he bought 'em) didn't know either.

I emailed KHS, not much from them either. Here's the conversations:



> Mr. McKay,
> 
> "CARBON FUSION" frames have aluminum at the joints. Lower end frames have more aluminum, Flite 3000 very little.
> 
> Best Regards,
> �
> Gene
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 6:11 AM
> To: KHS Sylvia Bran
> Subject: what is "CARBON FUSION"?
> 
> Can't find description on your site. You use this description on several FLITE models, and now I see you use it going back to '06 (?) as well.
> 
> I've googled a lot, found references, but nobody I can find seems to know details of frame materials throughout, nor lug material, nor how lugs are fastened.
> 
> I've had 2 KHS road bikes: 2000/2004 FLITE 500... very happy w/'em both.
> I have worked my way up to fairly competitive rider and want to move beyond steel.
> 
> But lack of info available on meaning of your term, and lack of specifics across frame set models is confusing.
> 
> You link/recommend BikePedia for specs of older models, but I don't find it helpful. For example, their '08 FLITE 750 description says:
> Frame Construction	TIG-welded/bonded
> Frame Tubing Material	KHS Fusion Carbon
> 
> Well, carbon isn't welded. TIG suggests there are welds, but where?
> And to what material... Aluminum/Titanium/steel or ??? Some these frames appear lugged from photo, but no mention of lug material. Is this explained anywhere?
> 
> It's time for me to upgrade beyond steel. I hate aluminum... hate it.
> And I'm wary of "composite" Al frames w/glued carbon chainstays... seen friends have 'em come apart on name brands.
> 
> Sure appreciate details if you can, or point me to place on your website/web where GOOGLE hasn't found 'em yet.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> --
> 
> "If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it's good enough for us."
> 
> - Miriam Amanda "Ma" Ferguson (1875-1961),
> Governor of Texas (1925-1927, 1933-1935)


I went to KHS LBS... been in there a lot last few years and know owner well. He always has a few KHS(s) on floor, considers himself and expert. He tapped the down/top tubes, said: "could be carbon." Well, I've done the same w/conclusion it could be aluminum as well.  And looking at how lugs are formed seamlessly into those 2 tubes, I'd bet aluminum.

Maybe if someone crashes & trashes one of these frames we can cut that puppy up and determine this once and for all.


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## davcruz

JDM, I believe the frames and forks are Trigon unless it is the Alpha Q fork on the Team and 900 models. I believe the Marin is the same frame and manufacturer based on the design being the same. Possibly the seat stays on the Marin are curved and the angle of the picture above makes them look straight.

IMO the sound these tubes makes when tapped on is carbon sound, but who knows.


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## davcruz

Here is a link for you. https://www.greatgocycles.com/RCC613.htm










-Three main tubes:Venus C7 oblique profile carbon fiber for performance riding extremely effective absorption of vibrations by Trigon's unique carbon composite properties
-Deep seated damping performance
-Top tube:musseleye profile C7 tubing
-Seat tube:aerodee profile for improved aerodynamics and styling
-Down tube:musseleye profile C7 tubing with oversized bottom bracket profile for improved lateral rigidity and increase power transfer
-Seat stay: obllix profile and C7 carbon
-Chain stay:monobox technology obllix profile and C7 carbon
-Head tube:C7 carbon fiber
-Wt:1.15kg (S)
-Details:
integrated headset 1 1/8"
STI stopper with adjuster bolts
Seat post 27.2mm
Seat clamp 31.8mm


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## slowhand

I got the frame last year off craigslist and put my components on it. Kind of a poorboy upgrade to carbon!


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## JDM

> Here is a link for you. http://www.greatgocycles.com/RCC613.htm


Interesting indeed Davcruz. Taiwan cf manufacturer. Explains how MAIN/KHS (and who knows how many others) have what seems like identical frames.

Given description in your link say c/f all the way around, kind'a makes me wonder if KHS now reduced to little more than reseller/marketing company. I mean, from email I posted from KHS rep above (not to mention 750 info on their website) that guy really didn't seem to have a clue what this frame construction is. He said AL lugs, but your link's description makes no such mention... and to me, given way lugs flow into top/down tubes looks like they (lug AND tube it flows to) must be the same material.

Differences between 750 & SLOWHAND's MARIN is not discernible to me.

Good sleuthing Davcruz!!!!


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## davcruz

Thanks JDM, I knew about Trigon over a year ago and suspected they made the frame but for some reason I didn't think to put the info here when you brought it back up again....


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## JDM

*Got mine built... impressions*

Me & buddie built this frame up last night, here's a photo:










It's +/- 3yr old 2x10 DA group I've moved from bike to bike a few times, great working shape but maybe 3k miles. I'll put in a plug for these Handle Bars:








I took a gamble on them... really nice. I have Richey WCS Pro Carbon bars which I love. These are a little stiffer, better shaping and very very nice. At $103 new from good folks at KBCycleWerxs, they're a steal.

Impressions: I bought this frame as a back-up/beater bike I could ride in rain, put a lock on, and such... had low expectations. 

I did about 40 miles on it this morning, got it adjusted/sized pretty close along the way, and frame significantly above my hopes. On roads, some of 'em full of cracks & humps, on way to our River Bike trail, frame was a bit more sensitive to rough surfaces than my everyday rider, but not harsh at all (as I feared it may be). It's provides a very nice ride over rough surfaces: no complaints whatsoever (no aluminum type shock transfer)... very happy.

I don't race at all, but I'm very fit & do min. 60 miles p/day. This frame is pretty stiff in right places: powers up well on chainstays w/little lost power... again, much more so than my fav. daily rider (OS Platinum X frame w/CAMPY CHORUS/RECORD Drive & AM 420 wheels). IMO description @ TRIGON's site, eg:


> Down tube:musseleye profile C7 tubing with oversized bottom bracket profile for improved lateral rigidity and increase power transfer


... is an accurate statement: this frame accomplishes that pretty well. Better in fact, than some of pricier frames that make similar claims which I've ridden. Maybe not as aesthetically pleasing as solid monocoque builds, but effective. And there are some very pricey, elite carbon frames that take this design approach (Pinarrelo has a couple, as does Ridley).

I generally like longer"euro" geometry (I'm near alone amongst my friends in that regard), this frame's more compact. Probably well suited to crits if that's what one's looking for. I do most of my miles pretty flat around here, and like the feel of long wheel base that feels like I'm on rails... eg: carve a turn rather than steer. Still, this frame's fine based on geometry.

I enjoyed the ride, my resurrected old ROLF's (thanks ABQ LBS: CYCLE CAVE for finding new parts to rebuild what I thought was expired rear wheel on this set) did well... although I'm spoiled from AM 420's on my main ride. 

All in all, I ended up w/a lot more than I was shooting for with this frame. It's pretty damn functional, strong in all the right places, and forgiving enough to go on any paved surface here in Albuquerque w/out chipping teeth. I'd recommend it, and I think it was a bargain. 

Weighed in @ 16.4 lbs (w/out pedals) on a Topeak Digital... not too bad.


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## davcruz

I am glad you like the frame. What forks are they?

On the bars, they look nice and the price is right although $129.99 now but still cheap, however where do you mount your computer?


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## JDM

> I am glad you like the frame. What forks are they?


Reynolds Ouzo Pro. A friend removed decals to save weight... I wish that was a snarky one liner, but it's actually true. He remains anonymous to protect his reputation.



> however where do you mount your computer?


Rarely use one.


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## davcruz

Here is a little update on my Flite 750 frame and fork. 

I have used it as my daily ride since I built it up. I still love this frame! However the fork that it was delivered with is a bit lacking in my opinion. I broke it this week, it has a hairline crack down by the dropout. I had no idea it was there but I do remember hearing a noise as I dismounted on Tuesdays ride. I ran over gum on Wednesday ride and when I went to pick it out of the fork crown I noticed the crack. This was after a decent lunch ride, so I am thankful it did not come apart on me during a ride. I removed the fork and have ordered an Alpha Q GS20 replacement from eBay for a steal of a price (99.50 including shipping!!!) brand new.

Just thought I would throw out my story.


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## keithu

I just got this same frame and fork last Thursday and love it. I have been riding and racing a giant txr alliance since 2007. I took all the components off of it and built up this ohs flite. It is amazing the difference in power transfer compared to my giant. I am flying up hills. No flex, no creeking of the frame and no vibration. If anyone is still riding this frame, let me know please how it is holding, because I love it.


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## davcruz

I am still riding mine. Still holding up great and what an improvement the switch to the Alpha Q GS20 fork has been.


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