# Why the Trek hate?



## bwalling

Since I started shopping around for a road bike (previously only ridden mtn bikes), I've noticed that there seem to be many people that hate (or at least ridicule) Trek. This includes bike shops (those that don't sell Trek) and quite a number of people on forums like this one. Is it just an "I'm too cool for a popular bike" thing or is it something else?


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## tednugent

I don't know. But people also hate Specialized for their competition limiting practices


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## kykr13

bwalling said:


> Is it just an "I'm too cool for a popular bike" thing or is it something else?


Pretty sure that's at least most of it. I'm very happy with mine and have a _great_ LBS to back it up. Though I'm riding something else today...


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## GDTRFB

I found the same thing, particularly on the forums. I can't figure out why, I love my Trek Madone 4.7, my old 930 SHX, and my old, sold 1000C. Trek makes some of the best productions frames available. They're light, stiff, comfortable and they have the DuoTrap port for a seamless computer interface. Aside from that, Trek will replace a defective frame, no matter how old, with a new model.
I also have a great LBS that stands behind Trek bikes.
Go to a good LBS, and see for yourself.
There are plenty of pro Trek people on the forums. 
The cyclists who you see on the opposite side of the road who don't give you a friendly nod are the same one's who hate Trek.

Go see for yourself, and form your own opinion.


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## Blue CheeseHead

There's a whole "boutique" bike thing that some people are attracted to.

Clearly Trek puts out a world class product that competes at the highest level.

My road ride is a 2004 5900 Super Light and I see no pressing need to modernize. (Upgrade is subjective)


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## spade2you

I think it's because the US views Trek as the _only_ reputable bike company and the best race bike on the market. They're decent bikes, but overhyped and the hype leads to slightly inflated prices, but what do I know, I ride a sub-14lb Bianchi.


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## tihsepa

1- Boring
2- Overpriced


That is all.

Specialzed too.


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## GDTRFB

spade2you said:


> I think it's because the US views Trek as the _only_ reputable bike company and the best race bike on the market. They're decent bikes, but overhyped and the hype leads to slightly inflated prices, but what do I know, I ride a sub-14lb Bianchi.


He's right about the hype, ultimately the consumer pays for all of the advertising. There are plenty of great brands out there. I would love top have a Bianchi, I'm still mad at myself for selling my Campione D'Italia back in the mid-90's.
Don't forget that every bike brand has Shimano, SRAM or Campy parts, or a mix with FSA etc. NO difference there. Some have house wheels, some have name-brand.

The criticism comes when people say the" brand X" is good, so Trek sucks.

I really haven't seen much objective criticism of Trek bikes, except for the above quote. He's right on, but every name-brand bike carries advertising costs.
One thing that can't be argued is that Trek makes it's higher end frames (six series) by hand in the USA. I'm not aware of any other reputable manufacturer that builds top-quality carbon-fiber frames in the USA.
And don't forget, Trek is a pioneer in carbon frames, and has very high R&D costs. Their innovations are used by other manufacturers.


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## TomH

tihsepa said:


> 1- Boring
> 2- Overpriced
> 
> 
> That is all.
> 
> Specialzed too.


I agree.. 

It would be foolish to say they're bad bikes. They're just boring and overpriced.


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## spade2you

Pete2 said:


> He's right about the hype, ultimately the consumer pays for all of the advertising. There are plenty of great brands out there. I would love top have a Bianchi, I'm still mad at myself for selling my Campione D'Italia back in the mid-90's.
> Don't forget that every bike brand has Shimano, SRAM or Campy parts, or a mix with FSA etc. NO difference there. Some have house wheels, some have name-brand.
> 
> The criticism comes when people say the" brand X" is good, so Trek sucks.
> 
> I really haven't seen much objective criticism of Trek bikes, except for the above quote. He's right on, but every name-brand bike carries advertising costs.
> One thing that can't be argued is that Trek makes it's higher end frames (six series) by hand in the USA. I'm not aware of any other reputable manufacturer that builds top-quality carbon-fiber frames in the USA.
> And don't forget, Trek is a pioneer in carbon frames, and has very high R&D costs. Their innovations are used by other manufacturers.


How is that different from people who think anything that isn't a Trek is garbage? 

I put thousands of miles on my Bianchis and they've proven themselves in races. That's really all I care about. I really don't care who did what, although Bianchi has been around just a few years. So they did a little R&D here n' there.

Honestly, I just haven't been that impressed with how they felt. The idea that I just need to spend more sounds a little too much like a sales pitch, especially given the additional costs over similar bikes/frames.


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## PlatyPius

From an LBS owner POV:

1) Every third customer in the door: "Do you sell Trek/Track/Trex?"

2) LBS: "What does it take to be a Trek dealer?" Trek: "75% of all of your inventory must be from us. You will give us your soul. You will worship at the altar of Lance. You must hate Greg LeMond."

3) Trek is the same Chinese crap as every other bike brand. People think they're better. Maybe because they cost more. Gotta pay the "Lance Tax".

4) People act all impressed that Trek still makes one model of Madone in the US. Apparently no one has ever heard of Calfee, Crumpton, or Serotta.


All in all, it's just annoying how prevalent they are. They aren't even great bikes. But you'd think no other brands existed in the US.


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## Shaba

*Thanks for asking the "Trek" question*

I too will soon purchase a new road bike (my current bike is a 1987 Schwinn). I'm so excited about getting a road bike! But, I was dismayed when I noticed a bias against Trek in these forums. I don't have any preconceived notions about any bike brands, so I'm open to anything with good reviews. One of the issues for me though is that the only LBS in my geographic area that I can ride to is a Trek Superstore (I'm in northwest Indiana). Sure, I'm close to Chicago and could choose from numerous stores, but I want a store that I can ride to and not have to put the bike on a bike carrier and drive for 25 to 50 miles to get to the dealer. So I'm hoping that I have good luck with Trek and their WSD bikes and good luck with the Trek LBS.


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## Camilo

Pete2 said:


> ...The cyclists who you see on the opposite side of the road who don't give you a friendly nod are the same one's who hate Trek....


There ya go, this guy knows his stuff.

I dislike that the ignorant cyclist thinks that somehow the brand Trek is inherently better than others just because it's well known. To me that's just stupid. It's a fine line of bikes, but just that.

I dislike that the only Trek shop I'm familiar with carries only Trek and Bontrager products (some exceptions like pedals and minor things, but every friggin' part in that store is Trek brands). There's a lot of better tires for certain applications than Bontrager. There's a lot of better saddles and shoes out there for any given person. There's more variety to bottle cages, bar tape, wheels, gloves, etc. fercrissakes than what Trek offers, but that's all they sell. It's just stupid and silly.

This sort of $hit has made me very (and maybe unreasonably) biased against the brand.

I'm not saying they're bad bikes. They are perfectly fine as far as I know. They may offer the best option for what some individuals are looking for. But because of their name recognition, there's just so many people who think it's the only thing. Kind of like anything Apple.

I would buy one if it were actually a better value at any given price point and application I happen to be shopping for, but I've never found it. Maybe as good, but not better, or at least "better" enough to break the bias I have. (my experience only).

If I were in Shaba's spot - the only decent bike shop w/ decent access is a Trek dealer, none of the reasons I've stated are reasons to avoid them. You don't have my bias so you'll find great bikes and be perfectly happy, I'm sure. You'll get 100X more admiration because of the brand than scorn (and there really isn't any scorn in me, just "meh")


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## GDTRFB

spade2you said:


> How is that different from people who think anything that isn't a Trek is garbage?
> 
> I put thousands of miles on my Bianchis and they've proven themselves in races. That's really all I care about. I really don't care who did what, although Bianchi has been around just a few years. So they did a little R&D here n' there.
> 
> Honestly, I just haven't been that impressed with how they felt. The idea that I just need to spend more sounds a little too much like a sales pitch, especially given the additional costs over similar bikes/frames.


Like you, I'm offering some real reasons. If you don't like how a Trek feels, that's one thing. But "boring" & "sucks" are something else. Bianchi's aren't the cheapest bikes around either, and they've got their own R&D costs to deal with Personally, I love Bianchis. But I also love Treks. Both cane be good. One doesn't have to suck.
The R&D costs are real for all of the big manufacturers, and someone pays for that The lower-level brands benefit without the costs. I'd be willing to bet that other manufacturers will come out with their own version of DuoTrap soon.
It's like a research hospital vs community hospital. One carries high R&D costs, and has more expensive care. The other offers less expensive care and benefits from the R&D of the more expensive hospital. Both can offer good care.
There are plenty of good bikes out there, Trek is one of them. Bianchi is another.
It just drives me nuts to read the Trek haters out there.


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## spade2you

Pete2 said:


> Like you, I'm offering some real reasons. If you don't like how a Trek feels, that's one thing. But "boring" & "sucks" are something else. Bianchi's aren't the cheapest bikes around either, and they've got their own R&D costs to deal with Personally, I love Bianchis. But I also love Treks. Both cane be good. One doesn't have to suck.
> The R&D costs are real for all of the big manufacturers, and someone pays for that The lower-level brands benefit without the costs. I'd be willing to bet that other manufacturers will come out with their own version of DuoTrap soon.
> It's like a research hospital vs community hospital. One carries high R&D costs, and has more expensive care. The other offers less expensive care and benefits from the R&D of the more expensive hospital. Both can offer good care.
> There are plenty of good bikes out there, Trek is one of them. Bianchi is another.
> It just drives me nuts to read the Trek haters out there.


Are you a Trek salesman, because I'm not hearing much else.


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## spade2you

Shaba said:


> I too will soon purchase a new road bike (my current bike is a 1987 Schwinn). I'm so excited about getting a road bike! But, I was dismayed when I noticed a bias against Trek in these forums. I don't have any preconceived notions about any bike brands, so I'm open to anything with good reviews. One of the issues for me though is that the only LBS in my geographic area that I can ride to is a Trek Superstore (I'm in northwest Indiana). Sure, I'm close to Chicago and could choose from numerous stores, but I want a store that I can ride to and not have to put the bike on a bike carrier and drive for 25 to 50 miles to get to the dealer. So I'm hoping that I have good luck with Trek and their WSD bikes and good luck with the Trek LBS.


Take this with a grain of salt, but I think WSD is also overhyped. Yes, they're slightly different in geometry, but keep in mind that both men and women don't have the same leg:torso:arm dimensions/ratios. IMHO, the only significant difference is the color. The most important thing is to get a bike that fits, not just what a salesman wants to sell you to get some inventory out the door. Most women I know who are very serious about riding or racing are using a "men's" frame. 

I'm no Trek hater, but Trek didn't exactly invent bikes or fitting.


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## GDTRFB

spade2you said:


> Are you a Trek salesman, because I'm not hearing much else.


No Trek salesman here, just offering my experiences. I like them, and I like many other brands as well, especially Bianchi (which I've owned).
There are plenty of good bike brands out there. Trek is one of them.
The guy who started this thread wanted some insight as to why so many people hate Trek for the sake of hating. I just tried to offer some insight.
I can like Trek without hating other brands. I'd be happy on a Trek, Specialized, Bianchi, Pinarello, Scott, Look or Jamis. But I'd ride any bike before I bought it. No one can argue that Trek's R&D and innovation has benefited everyone who rides. If someone doesn't like the brand for personal reasons, or a shop owner for business reasons, that doesn't mean the Trek sucks. Personally, I don't like Giant or Fuji. I can't give you a good reason why, I just don't. I would never buy one. But that doesn't mean that they suck.


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## bwalling

PlatyPius said:


> All in all, it's just annoying how prevalent they are. They aren't even great bikes. But you'd think no other brands existed in the US.


Are you a road bike specific shop? I'll admit that it has been years since I purchased my mountain bike, but Trek wasn't all that big of a deal in that world at that time.

I ended up buying a Madone because it had the best feel in the price range I could afford. I paid less for it than I would have for entry level carbon with the same components from other makers. The shops that sold the other brands wouldn't budge on price and the Trek shop came down $300.

FYI - since you're a shop owner, one of the local shops annoyed me so much with their rant about Trek that I left. I rode the same bikes they carried at another shop and would have purchased from the other shop over them because the attitude was better. Add that to the fact that he told me I didn't need to ride some of the bikes I had gone in his shop to ride. He was the only Felt shop in the area, so I never got to ride one, because according to him, I only needed to look at the CAAD10 and not bother with any other bikes.


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## spade2you

Pete2 said:


> No Trek salesman here, just offering my experiences. I like them, and I like many other brands as well, especially Bianchi (which I've owned).
> There are plenty of good bike brands out there. Trek is one of them.
> The guy who started this thread wanted some insight as to why so many people hate Trek for the sake of hating. I just tried to offer some insight.
> I can like Trek without hating other brands. I'd be happy on a Trek, Specialized, Bianchi, Pinarello, Scott, Look or Jamis. But I'd ride any bike before I bought it. No one can argue that Trek's R&D and innovation has benefited everyone who rides. If someone doesn't like the brand for personal reasons, or a shop owner for business reasons, that doesn't mean the Trek sucks. Personally, I don't like Giant or Fuji. I can't give you a good reason why, I just don't. I would never buy one. But that doesn't mean that they suck.


Call me a pot stirrer, but your attitude is exactly what gives Trek a bit of a bad name. I didn't really ask for your experiences. Did you know the last Double was won on a Bianchi? Did you know the Oltre is rated as the bike of the year? 

Trek has a slightly tainted vibe because it's usually n00bs telling us how it is. The reality is that most companies are built on hype, but Trek is very deep in it.


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## Shaba

*Wsd*

thanks for your input on WSD's. I actually do want a men's bike since there's more choice. Also, I'm almost 6' tall and don't need a super small bike.


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## PJ352

Pete2 said:


> Like you, I'm offering some real reasons.


Well, kinda-sorta, but you're obviously pro-Trek and some of your arguments are questionable. 

That said, I'm not anti-Trek, but do think there's a need for some balance here.

Unless you have some source of info, making a statement that Trek puts more into R & D than others may or may not be true. I tend to doubt it, especially when compared to some of the bigger names.

Since the intro of the 'new Madone', I've followed Trek's technology quite closely, and their real world results of some lofty marketing claims does fall short. For example, they've had ongoing problems with their CF BB's where play develops between bearings and sockets (I think that's what Trek calls them). When this was discovered early on, Trek routinely replaced the framesets, but as time went on and the problems became higher in number, shims were then offered as a 'fix', and subsequently slightly larger bearings. If you doubt this, do a search in their forum and you'll find posts describing this issue. Then there were problems with the seat mast (remember Lance fixing his during the last TdF?), but that's another story.

The bottom line here is that generally speaking Treks are in many ways no better than many other brands, and in some cases (and in recent history and with certain models), somewhat less so.

As with anything, let the buyer beware. So I would advise anyone looking to buy a new bike to visit reputable LBS's, discuss their intended uses/ goals and price range, get set up on a number of bikes and head out on test rides. If the bike fits well and _just feels right _to the rider, the name on the down tube is of secondary importance.


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## TomH

Theres much less R&D than you think.. especially with super ridiculous high volume bikes like Trek. You're not paying for R&D, you're paying for the sticker on the frame. Dont fall into that trap, its a poor attempt to justify cost. They're expensive because they're popular, nothing more or less. If performance bikes generic house brand suddenly became the most popular selling bike on the market, the price would triple tomorrow. 

Theres only so many ways to slap together a couple triangles.. Treks not doing anything revolutionary. Bikes are all pretty high quality these days. Even the generic run-of-the-mill frames are excellent.. and theres so many brands out there that you could find 100 different ones that fit you well. These days the subjective things like "its boring" is a pretty reasonable reason to pass on a bike. If you write one off, theres a ton behind it thats just as good.


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## spade2you

Shaba said:


> thanks for your input on WSD's. I actually do want a men's bike since there's more choice. Also, I'm almost 6' tall and don't need a super small bike.


At your height, you should expect a reputable bike dealer to take a few measurements and say, "I think we can order something for you". When you're really tall (or small in my case), most shops will not have your size in stock and need to order it. They may have a mountain bike or similar bike to let you get a test ride in before orering the one you want.


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## PJ352

spade2you said:


> Take this with a grain of salt, but I think WSD is also overhyped. Yes, they're slightly different in geometry, but keep in mind that both men and women don't have the same leg:torso:arm dimensions/ratios. IMHO, the only significant difference is the color. The most important thing is to get a bike that fits, not just what a salesman wants to sell you to get some inventory out the door. Most women I know who are very serious about riding or racing are using a "men's" frame.
> 
> I'm no Trek hater, but Trek didn't exactly invent bikes or fitting.


The problem with WSD bikes is that they're incorrectly named. A well designed 'WSD' frame has a slightly shorter reach and taller HT when compared to its counterpart in standaard geo.

Whether they be male or female, riders proportioned longer legs/ shorter torso will, in many cases, benefit from bikes with WSD geo.

Shaba: If you're propotioned as I mentioned, give both the WSD and standard versions a ride, and decide from there.


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## TomH

Sometimes WSD bikes dont move as fast out of stores, so they're more likely to cut you a deal. My fiancee likes girly colors, and her WSD bike provides that, and the few shops we went to were very willing to bargain on the WSD bikes. It fell together quite well. Nothing wrong with WSD. Absolutely dont pay extra for it though.

Her bike is a trek, btw


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## spade2you

PJ352 said:


> The problem with WSD bikes is that they're incorrectly named. A well designed 'WSD' frame has a slightly shorter reach and taller HT when compared to its counterpart in standaard geo.
> 
> Whether they be male or female, riders proportioned longer legs/ shorter torso will, in many cases, benefit from bikes with WSD geo.
> 
> Shaba: If you're propotioned as I mentioned, give both the WSD and standard versions a ride, and decide from there.


I can agree with that. I kind of wish I had a taller HT on my road bike since my pedal stroke requires a slightly higher saddle and my stem would suggest I'm old and have no flexibility at first glance.


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## Mr. Versatile

*This*

PlatyPius _"All in all, it's just annoying how prevalent they are. They aren't even great bikes. But you'd think no other brands existed in the US."_

*this*

spade2you _"I think it's because the US views Trek as the only reputable bike company and the best race bike on the market. They're decent bikes, but overhyped and the hype leads to slightly inflated prices"..._

*and this*
tihsepa _"1- Boring
2- Overpriced"_


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## Ryder321

spade2you said:


> although Bianchi has been around just a few years.


"The history of one of the world’s top bicycles started back in 1885 when then 21 year old Edoardo Bianchi opened his small bicycle shop focusing on repairs in Milan’s via Nirone. After just 3 years in the business, he created his first bicycle and as soon as 1896 began using his bicycles in races as a testing ground, which was a totally new concept at the time. Within 3 years of entering the racing scene, Bianchi Bicycles had their first international victory in the Grand Prix of Paris, the prelude to the Tour de France." http://cycling-review.com/more-reviews/bianchi/


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## strohman

I live in smaller city with 2 LBS, but only 1 at the time that I bought my bike. This shop carries Trek and Specialized. I was familiar with both of those, but not many other brands. 

I was just getting started and I tested a bike from each brand. I liked the Specialized a bit more than the Trek. No obvious reason, it just felt better to me. Now that I realize how popular those 2 brands are, I can see that it might be fun to own something a bit less common, but I doubt if it would impact my riding. 

A newer LBS only sells Cannondale. Someday I'll give one of those a test ride just for the experience. But, if I decide to buy another bike, I'll make the trip to a larger city and try out some other brands to get a good idea of what else it out there.

Some people don't have a lot of choice when they go looking for a bike, which may be why Trek is so common.


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## tuffguy1500

*I dig my Trek...*

My first ever road bike was/is a used '06 Trek 1500, and I knew nothing about it. After 5k miles on it, I learned to both love and hate it, with love being the stronger emotion. Maybe it's because it was my first roadie, but I tried to sell it to justify a new TT bike. I just couldn't get to actually putting an advert out. I also bought my second bike (Kona) from a Trek Dealer who tried hard to push me into a Portland, but I just didnt like the forks, and the lack of fender mounts. So yea, Trek is a good bike, good company/warranty (of which I've used), and if I had my druthers, I would have bought the Speed Concept if only I had a few grand laying around. So like other things, opinions will be formed, and remain unchanged no matter how cool/daft a bike company gets.


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## tihsepa

Pete2-- you so far are the only poast to use the work "suck". Although you may be right, you said it. I,m sticking with boring and overpriced.


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## early one

PlatyPius said:


> From an LBS owner POV:
> 
> 1) Every third customer in the door: "Do you sell Trek/Track/Trex?"
> .


If every third person wants a Trex, why not sell Trex ?
Give the customer what he wants.


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## Oasisbill

I'm in Australia and there aren't many treks here - Heaps of variety though, plenty of scotts, Avantis, pinarellos, colnagos, Bianchis, giants, specializeds etc...

I like a bike with a BIG history. Bianchi is right up there for this for e.g. Having said that I currently have a trek, and without the bullsh*t marketing that you seem to have in the states, it was the best bike for the money at the time, and it is an american made one too. I rode many bikes, and I almost bought an aluminium/carbon Bianchi (1885) but it was quite a few rungs down as far as harshness, feel and weight. I wanted and still want a 928 or the like when I can afford it, and a 57cm I think would suit me better too (which I love about Bianchi).


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## 19surf74

Was a Cannondale guy, then I went to Colnago, and well now I don't think I will buy anything other than a custom. Richard Sachs, Vanilla, Kirks, SpeedVagen, etc...... these guys are for real and there bikes are awesome. Carbon in my humble opinion is overated. Steel is for real!!!!


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## Oasisbill

19surf74 said:


> Was a Cannondale guy, then I went to Colnago, and well now I don't think I will buy anything other than a custom. Richard Sachs, Vanilla, Kirks, SpeedVagen, etc...... these guys are for real and there bikes are awesome. Carbon in my humble opinion is overated. Steel is for real!!!!


I'm actually very keen on trying a titanium frame and transferring my groupset across when the frame gets a bit tired. custom or shop, as long as it fits.


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## PlatyPius

early one said:


> If every third person wants a Trex, why not sell Trex ?
> Give the customer what he wants.


Because I opened a bike shop to be independent, work for myself, and to be in control of what I stock in my store.

If I'm going to sell Trek, I might as well just go work for someone else.

Unless, of course, you're referring specifically to "Trex", in which case I've thought about buying cheap frames from China and slapping "Trex" on the downtube and selling them. Of course, Trek corporate lawyers/assassins would be at my shop in a matter of hours.... They don't like people using their own business model.


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## Keeping up with Junior

*WSD Components*



spade2you said:


> ...the only significant difference is the color...


When I looked at WSD in the past the other difference was that you could not get a stock WSD bike with high end components.


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## vontress

The right bike is the one that you are comfortable on, fits your budget and you smile every time you see it. No one else can tell you that any brand does or doesn't do that for you. I think Trek and Specialized take the heat because they are marketed so well they are everywhere and people get tired of seeing them. It's more interesting to see something different. Since we are in the beginners corner,I'm assuming you are new. Just buy what makes you smile. If you buy a Trek you will immediately become a lover of Trek. People tend to support their decisions... Or buy what they believe in. Either way, if you shop around and buy what you love, you've made the right choice.


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## spade2you

Keeping up with Junior said:


> When I looked at WSD in the past the other difference was that you could not get a stock WSD bike with high end components.


I think it's mostly because WSD is marketed towards beginners.


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## MarkS

Riding a Trek is like driving a Honda Accord. I have had both (and still am driving an Accord). They are popular products that do what they are supposed to do for a reasonable price. But, they are more utilitarian than sexy. If the Trek feels right and is in your price range, buy it and you will be satisfied. People obsess about frame brands and materials. However, the things that have made the greatest difference to me over the years are the other things on the bike -- components, saddles, pedals, etc. I rode a Trek 5200 (the predecessor of the Madone 5.2) for eight years. By the time that the frame cracked, there was not an original component or accessory on the bike.


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## bwalling

MarkS said:


> Riding a Trek is like driving a Honda Accord.


I drive and Accord and just bought a Trek.  Score two points for being boring and safe, I guess. The Accord isn't sexy, but it's a workhorse and never gives me any problems. I'm good with that.


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## PlatyPius

vontress said:


> The right bike is the one that you are comfortable on, fits your budget and you smile every time you see it. No one else can tell you that any brand does or doesn't do that for you. I think Trek and Specialized take the heat because they are marketed so well they are everywhere and people get tired of seeing them. It's more interesting to see something different. Since we are in the beginners corner,I'm assuming you are new. Just buy what makes you smile. If you buy a Trek you will immediately become a lover of Trek. People tend to support their decisions... Or buy what they believe in. Either way, if you shop around and buy what you love, you've made the right choice.


I agree with this.


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## jswilson64

To add a couple of whip marks to this poor deceased equine...

I think people hate Trek for the same reason they hate Toyota: the company's success and ubiquity of its products.

Back when "Trek" meant "handmade in Waterloo, Wisconsin" their bikes were cool and different. Now they're everywhere and the company is a huge conglomerate, just like Specialized, and Giant, and ...


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## GDTRFB

bwalling said:


> I drive and Accord and just bought a Trek.  Score two points for being boring and safe, I guess. The Accord isn't sexy, but it's a workhorse and never gives me any problems. I'm good with that.


Same here. Accord & Trek.


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## GDTRFB

bwalling said:


> Since I started shopping around for a road bike (previously only ridden mtn bikes), I've noticed that there seem to be many people that hate (or at least ridicule) Trek. This includes bike shops (those that don't sell Trek) and quite a number of people on forums like this one. Is it just an "I'm too cool for a popular bike" thing or is it something else?


I'll go back to the original question posted by someone *new to cycling*.
I was just letting him know that there is a very vocal, well represented group of cyclists who hate Trek bikes. Many of them hate just for the sake of hating, and because everywhere you look you see a Trek. Fine, but Trek still makes some really nice bikes. I happen to really like them, but I also really like Bianchis as well (only in celeste). And I love the look of the Cannondale Super-Six Ultegra. All are nice. If you want to talk value, it's easy to say that most of the major brands are overpriced. R&D, advertising, team support are all costs that the consumer pays. If you want bang for the buck, buy a Cavalo from Nashbar. You can get a carbon frame with SRAM Force & decent wheels for under $2000 with a coupon. Less than $2500 gets you SRAM Red. Add in accessories, pedals etc, and for well under three grand you have a really nice bike that is more than enough for 99% of people who ride for fun & fitness. One of those could be used to race on as well.

I didn't know of the Trek hate until I went on the forums last year.


----------



## spade2you

Pete2 said:


> I'll go back to the original question posted by someone *new to cycling*.
> I was just letting him know that there is a very vocal, well represented group of cyclists who hate Trek bikes. Many of them hate just for the sake of hating, and because everywhere you look you see a Trek. Fine, but Trek still makes some really nice bikes. I happen to really like them, but I also really like Bianchis as well (only in celeste). And I love the look of the Cannondale Super-Six Ultegra. All are nice. If you want to talk value, it's easy to say that most of the major brands are overpriced. R&D, advertising, team support are all costs that the consumer pays. If you want bang for the buck, buy a Cavalo from Nashbar. You can get a carbon frame with SRAM Force & decent wheels for under $2000 with a coupon. Less than $2500 gets you SRAM Red. Add in accessories, pedals etc, and for well under three grand you have a really nice bike that is more than enough for 99% of people who ride for fun & fitness. One of those could be used to race on as well.
> 
> I didn't know of the Trek hate until I went on the forums last year.


For the next 2 weeks you can't say Trek. You have exceeded your quota.


----------



## PlatyPius

spade2you said:


> For the next 2 weeks you can't say Trek. You have exceeded your quota.


I whole-heartedly second this.

I sell bikes and I don't slobber that much about those brands online...


----------



## spade2you

early one said:


> Give the customer what he wants.


How does someone who hasn't ridden thousands of miles a year for many years _know_ what they want? 

The reality is that there really aren't too many companies that are offering much more than their competition. Almost every company on the market makes everything at all price points like their competitors. They pretend their product has a gimmic or two, but it's really not all that different. The only real problem is that it's never an apples to apples comparison, so hard to say which is a better value.


----------



## PJ352

Keeping up with Junior said:


> When I looked at WSD in the past the other difference was that you could not get a stock WSD bike with high end components.


The times they are a changin'...  
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCProduct.jsp?spid=52855&scid=1001&scname=Road

View attachment 227628


----------



## PJ352

vontress said:


> The right bike is the one that you are comfortable on, fits your budget and you smile every time you see it. No one else can tell you that any brand does or doesn't do that for you. I think Trek and Specialized take the heat because they are marketed so well they are everywhere and people get tired of seeing them. It's more interesting to see something different. Since we are in the beginners corner,I'm assuming you are new. Just buy what makes you smile. If you buy a Trek you will immediately become a lover of Trek. People tend to support their decisions... Or buy what they believe in. Either way, if you shop around and buy what you love, you've made the right choice.





PlatyPius said:


> I agree with this.


Me too. Well put, vontress! :thumbsup:


----------



## dgeesaman

bwalling said:


> Since I started shopping around for a road bike (previously only ridden mtn bikes), I've noticed that there seem to be many people that hate (or at least ridicule) Trek. This includes bike shops (those that don't sell Trek) and quite a number of people on forums like this one. Is it just an "I'm too cool for a popular bike" thing or is it something else?


I think it's because Trek is so successful commercially and they have taken some market share from companies that appeal to the purists but lack the commercial savvy of the big 3 (Cannondale, Trek, Specialized). Companies that compete hard for business typically have their detractors.

In any case I bought a Trek because the shop I found to be best in my area was a Trek/Giant/Cervelo dealer. I couldn't afford the Cervelos, and preferred the Trek over the Giant. In hindsight there is a slight regret that I bought the "me-too" brand bike as opposed to something similar but frankly the local shop is good enough that I know I made the right decision. Plus if I'm riding hard and I beat up on someone riding their boutique or Italian bike it's just a little bit more fun.

David


----------



## terbennett

spade2you said:


> How is that different from people who think anything that isn't a Trek is garbage?
> 
> I put thousands of miles on my Bianchis and they've proven themselves in races. That's really all I care about. I really don't care who did what, although Bianchi has been around just a few years. So they did a little R&D here n' there.
> 
> Honestly, I just haven't been that impressed with how they felt. The idea that I just need to spend more sounds a little too much like a sales pitch, especially given the additional costs over similar bikes/frames.


Correction: Bianchi has been around more than a few years. They are the oldest bike company in the world and they've been around for 115-120 years. They've one more races than any other company. Bianchi is like Daimler when it comes to reputation; mass produced but it still has prestige.


----------



## terbennett

spade2you said:


> Call me a pot stirrer, but your attitude is exactly what gives Trek a bit of a bad name. I didn't really ask for your experiences. Did you know the last Double was won on a Bianchi? Did you know the Oltre is rated as the bike of the year?
> 
> Trek has a slightly tainted vibe because it's usually n00bs telling us how it is. The reality is that most companies are built on hype, but Trek is very deep in it.


Trek should be built on hype because they made smart decisions in their past that make them what they are. I used to ride Trek bikes and they were great bikes. However, so is pretty much every other brand. This is why I ride Felt. Still Treks are great bikes. 

Treks first successful move was to keep the advertising going at the same rate during the bike recession back in the '90s. While everone else were cutting back, they kept going. a move which would put them ahead of the rest. When the economy turned around, Trek was the bike to have. Many other companies do that too. Mc Donald's is a perfect example. Think of how many Mc Donald's commercials you've seen in your life and think about how often people go to Mc Donald's. 

The second reason is the Lance factor. Nothing wrong with it because Trek is a business. We have to remember that first. One of our guys destroying the "mother of all bike races," in a country that generally hates us, for the world record aboard a bike built by us. It speaks out to us and the rest of the world. Most Treks are built in Asia but people bought because Lance rode them. Trek wins because they are in it to sell bikes. Kudos to them.

Luckily for Trek, their road bikes have a geometry that is very versatile. It's hard not to be fitted on a Trek for most people. I know there are other companies that make a bike just as good (and oftentimes better) than a comparableTrek, but that doesn't mean one should hate on them. BTW, they do have a stellar warranty policy for the original owner. Why don't I ride one anymore? Felt just had what I liked and needed right out of the box. I ride 58 cm F-Series and they fit perfectly without needing any adjustments made. That's why I ride Felt.


----------



## Hank Stamper

terbennett said:


> Correction: Bianchi has been around more than a few years. They are the oldest bike company in the world and they've been around for 115-120 years. They've one more races than any other company. Bianchi is like Daimler when it comes to reputation; mass produced but it still has prestige.


I think you might need to reinstall you sarcasm detection software. I'm pretty sure he realizes Bianchi has been around a while.


----------



## pmf

In the DC area, where a $6000 bike is more the norm than the exception, its predominantly Trek, Specialized and more recently Cervelo. Cervelo seems to appeal to the matching shorts, jersey and socks crowd. A bike conceived in a country with a three month season and then stamped out in China ... yeah, I want that. 

Its all driven by marketing. If the European pros ride them, they have to be good. That's gotta be why they cost so much. I think people who make fun of them recognize the marketing hype, and think, I don't want to be one of the herd.


----------



## Bocephus Jones II

Are Treks good bikes?


----------



## pmf

Bocephus Jones II said:


> Are Treks good bikes?


Huh Huh Huh Huh, Beavis, surprised it took you so long to come up with that original thought. Man, that's funny.


----------



## spade2you

Hank Stamper said:


> I think you might need to reinstall you sarcasm detection software. I'm pretty sure he realizes Bianchi has been around a while.


Since 1885, hence their 1885 model. Having ridden them for a while, I brushed up on my history, eh?


----------



## spade2you

terbennett said:


> Trek should be built on hype because they made smart decisions in their past that make them what they are. I used to ride Trek bikes and they were great bikes. However, so is pretty much every other brand. This is why I ride Felt. Still Treks are great bikes.
> 
> Treks first successful move was to keep the advertising going at the same rate during the bike recession back in the '90s. While everone else were cutting back, they kept going. a move which would put them ahead of the rest. When the economy turned around, Trek was the bike to have. Many other companies do that too. Mc Donald's is a perfect example. Think of how many Mc Donald's commercials you've seen in your life and think about how often people go to Mc Donald's.
> 
> The second reason is the Lance factor. Nothing wrong with it because Trek is a business. We have to remember that first. One of our guys destroying the "mother of all bike races," in a country that generally hates us, for the world record aboard a bike built by us. It speaks out to us and the rest of the world. Most Treks are built in Asia but people bought because Lance rode them. Trek wins because they are in it to sell bikes. Kudos to them.
> 
> Luckily for Trek, their road bikes have a geometry that is very versatile. It's hard not to be fitted on a Trek for most people. I know there are other companies that make a bike just as good (and oftentimes better) than a comparableTrek, but that doesn't mean one should hate on them. BTW, they do have a stellar warranty policy for the original owner. Why don't I ride one anymore? Felt just had what I liked and needed right out of the box. I ride 58 cm F-Series and they fit perfectly without needing any adjustments made. That's why I ride Felt.


I can't fault them for their advertising, but much like Zipp and Mavic, as well as anything highly advertised, that cost is ultimately picked up by the consumer. Just because you're paying more does NOT mean you're getting better performance.


----------



## tihsepa

terbennett said:


> Correction: Bianchi has been around more than a few years. They are the oldest bike company in the world and they've been around for 115-120 years. They've one more races than any other company. Bianchi is like Daimler when it comes to reputation; mass produced but it still has prestige.


Unfortunately, that prestige has also somewhat deminished.


----------



## AJL

PlatyPius said:


> 2) LBS: "What does it take to be a Trek dealer?" Trek: "75% of all of your inventory must be from us. You will give us your soul. You will worship at the altar of Lance. You must hate Greg LeMond."


Ah, that's why our local Trek dealer sells Trek, Specialized and Cannondale, but almost all the accessories are now Bontrager/Trek (five years ago there was a good mix, now it's starting to s*ck).


----------



## PlatyPius

AJL said:


> Ah, that's why our local Trek dealer sells Trek, Specialized and Cannondale, but almost all the accessories are now Bontrager/Trek (five years ago there was a good mix, now it's starting to s*ck).


If they've been around for a while, or if they're a larger shop, this is common. Trek, Specialized, and Cannondale seem to be a common grouping.


----------



## PJ352

terbennett said:


> Luckily for Trek, their road bikes have a geometry that is very versatile.


Interesting you should mention that. Back in the LA days, Trek sung the praises of its 'tour winning' geo, but around about '09 they very quietly made changes that moved the Madones (among other models) closer to some Spec/ C'dale models. So yes, their geo _is_ 'versatile'.


----------



## qatarbhoy

> Just because you're paying more does NOT mean you're getting better performance.


You are getting a warranty which Trek has a good record of honouring.


----------



## spade2you

tihsepa said:


> Unfortunately, that prestige has also somewhat deminished.


They haven't been very aggressive with teams or marketing as of lately, but they're still making good stuff, at least from my road racing perspective. I'm a little let down by the Sempre paint scheme, but it's still a solid racer. The 928 SL is something I might buy sooner or later, although I can't complain about my T-Cube. My D2 Crono from a few years back is nice...as is the new design, which I'd have...if I had the $ or a more understanding wife.

Regardless, does Bianchi _need_ to advertise a lot? They seem to have a loyal fan base that will still buy them regardless of team and advertising. My bikes have treated me well enough that I'm not shopping around.


----------



## kykr13

Page 3. Y'all realize the OP already bought one and hasn't been around this thread since Page 1? rrr:


----------



## AJL

kykr13 said:


> Page 3. Y'all realize the OP already bought one and hasn't been around this thread since Page 1? rrr:



Are you surprised? Since when has a fact like this had any effect on RBR posting habits :idea:


----------



## AJL

PlatyPius said:


> If they've been around for a while, or if they're a larger shop, this is common. Trek, Specialized, and Cannondale seem to be a common grouping.


Yeah, they have been around for at least a generation. So does Trek make exceptions for well established dealers?


----------



## Salsa_Lover

because they make good bikes ?


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## Bocephus Jones II

Salsa_Lover said:


> because they make good bikes ?


The crabon ones asplode.


----------



## terbennett

spade2you said:


> I can't fault them for their advertising, but much like Zipp and Mavic, as well as anything highly advertised, that cost is ultimately picked up by the consumer. Just because you're paying more does NOT mean you're getting better performance.


Exactly! They are overpriced because of the heavy advertising.


----------



## terbennett

PJ352 said:


> Well, kinda-sorta, but you're obviously pro-Trek and some of your arguments are questionable.
> 
> That said, I'm not anti-Trek, but do think there's a need for some balance here.
> 
> Unless you have some source of info, making a statement that Trek puts more into R & D than others may or may not be true. I tend to doubt it, especially when compared to some of the bigger names.
> 
> Since the intro of the 'new Madone', I've followed Trek's technology quite closely, and their real world results of some lofty marketing claims does fall short. For example, they've had ongoing problems with their CF BB's where play develops between bearings and sockets (I think that's what Trek calls them). When this was discovered early on, Trek routinely replaced the framesets, but as time went on and the problems became higher in number, shims were then offered as a 'fix', and subsequently slightly larger bearings. If you doubt this, do a search in their forum and you'll find posts describing this issue. Then there were problems with the seat mast (remember Lance fixing his during the last TdF?), but that's another story.
> 
> The bottom line here is that generally speaking Treks are in many ways no better than many other brands, and in some cases (and in recent history and with certain models), somewhat less so.
> 
> As with anything, let the buyer beware. So I would advise anyone looking to buy a new bike to visit reputable LBS's, discuss their intended uses/ goals and price range, get set up on a number of bikes and head out on test rides. If the bike fits well and _just feels right _to the rider, the name on the down tube is of secondary importance.


I would have to argue the topic of R&D. Trek has more people employed in their R&D department than most bike companies employ as a whole. That's not a guess but a fact. Go to a Trek store and talk with the people at them. Many like to brag about how Trek has around 200 people employed just in their R&D department. For some reason, they believe that Trek is better because of this. Then again, they have to think it's better because they are selling Trek products.


----------



## PJ352

terbennett said:


> *I would have to argue the topic of R&D. Trek has more people employed in their R&D department than most bike companies employ as a whole. *That's not a guess but a fact. Gop to a Trek store and talk with the people at them. Trek has around 200 people just in their R&D department.


I don't disagree with this, thus my statement...
_"...making a statement that Trek puts more into R & D than others may or may not be true. I tend to doubt it, *especially when compared to some of the bigger names"*._


----------



## terbennett

Hank Stamper said:


> I think you might need to reinstall you sarcasm detection software. I'm pretty sure he realizes Bianchi has been around a while.


I was too cheap to purchase that software option. Regrets.......


----------



## spade2you

Bocephus Jones II said:


> The crabon ones asplode.


Enough of my friends had problems with their Madones and the frames cracking that I'm not very impressed.


----------



## bwalling

kykr13 said:


> Page 3. Y'all realize the OP already bought one and hasn't been around this thread since Page 1? rrr:


I'm still reading.


----------



## PlatyPius

AJL said:


> Yeah, they have been around for at least a generation. So does Trek make exceptions for well established dealers?


Yes, from what I hear.


----------



## PJ352

spade2you said:


> Enough of my friends had problems with their Madones and the frames cracking that I'm not very impressed.


Which bring up the point that throwing money and people at R & D doesn't necessarily net a company good results.


----------



## CalypsoArt

This thread is too short. OP should have said Motobecane if he really wanted to bring out the haters.


----------



## Mr. Versatile

Did you ever notice the prevalence of gray cars? They've been the #1 selling color for the past 10 years or so. Next time you're in town with nothing much to do, stop on a corner & count how many gray cars go by. They hugely out number other colors. Personally I don't like gray. I refuse to call it silver BTW. To me it's dull, boring & looks like it hasn't been painted.

That's exactly how I feel about Trek bikes. There are just too many of them, & they're dull & boring. You mean they aren't good bikes? I didn't say that. I said ...well, just read the 2nd to last sentence.


----------



## GDTRFB

Mr. Versatile said:


> Did you ever notice the prevalence of gray cars? They've been the #1 selling color for the past 10 years or so. Next time you're in town with nothing much to do, stop on a corner & count how many gray cars go by. They hugely out number other colors. Personally I don't like gray. I refuse to call it silver BTW. To me it's dull, boring & looks like it hasn't been painted.
> 
> That's exactly how I feel about Trek bikes. There are just too many of them, & they're dull & boring. You mean they aren't good bikes? I didn't say that. I said ...well, just read the 2nd to last sentence.


This guy sums it up.
I think that most of the hate comes from there being so many Trek bikes out there. It's nice to read an objective opinion like this. There are too many people out there who hat for the sake of hating, and write that brand x is good, so Trek sucks. Most bikes out there, especially one's that are sold at reputable LBS's are good. My favorites are Trek, Bianchi (only in Celeste), Specialized, Cannondale and Scott. I don't like Giant, GT or Fuji, but I'd never tell anyone that those three brands aren't any good.
Personally, I could agree that seeing a Trek on every corner makes them a dime-a-dozen, but the DuoTrap isn't boring, and the ability to customize with Project One is pretty cool.
BTW - I've got a Honda CR-V in silver, yes silver, and an Accord in dark gray.
Haven't heard from the OP since day one, but I'm sure that his question has been answered.


----------



## tihsepa

tihsepa said:


> 1- Boring
> 2- Overpriced
> 
> 
> That is all.
> 
> Specialzed too.


Repeat.


----------



## Cni2i

It seems that a lot of the less-than-positive statements about Trek bikes in general can be said about Specialized?!?!?!

I personally own two Spec bikes and really like them. Sure, they are a dime a dozen around here, but that doesn't make them lesser-performing bikes IMO.


----------



## Guest

CalypsoArt said:


> This thread is too short. OP should have said Motobecane if he really wanted to bring out the haters.


Well someone said Fuji, and when I was riding one in the group rides I got plenty of dirty looks from the Colnago and Pinarello crowd. Of course that was usually as I was passing them going the same direction. I just upgraded to a Giant TCR Advanced, and they have been mentioned twice now in this thread as not being well liked. I rode that bike one time and knew it was for me. I friggin love it, and I haven't ridden with the group on the Giant yet, but it will be interesting to see if I get any scowls.


----------



## GDTRFB

Mevadus said:


> Well someone said Fuji, and when I was riding one in the group rides I got plenty of dirty looks from the Colnago and Pinarello crowd. Of course that was usually as I was passing them going the same direction. I just upgraded to a Giant TCR Advanced, and they have been mentioned twice now in this thread as not being well liked. I rode that bike one time and knew it was for me. I friggin love it, and I haven't ridden with the group on the Giant yet, but it will be interesting to see if I get any scowls.


I know exactly what you mean about the Colnago Pinarello crowd, I've been on the receiving end of condescending looks as well. Anyone who gives another cyclist a dirty look over brand is a real jerk. If someone doesn't like a certain brand of bike, then they shouldn't buy one. But criticize another person's bike? That's a real a-hole move. I don't like particular brands, but that's my personal opinion, and I would never tell someone not to but one.
A variety of brands & their philosophies keeps every manufacturer on their toes, and helps us all. Just like how SRAM has made Shimano & Campagnolo step it up. It helps us all.
So get on a Giant, Fuji, Trek, Specialized, Colnago, Pinarello, Felt, Look Bianchi or a Performance/Nashbar bike or any other, test it out, get fitted, and ride. Pay no attention to the looks, comments or attitude.


----------



## PlatyPius

Pete2 said:


> I know exactly what you mean about the Colnago Pinarello crowd, I've been on the receiving end of condescending looks as well. Anyone who gives another cyclist a dirty look over brand is a real jerk. If someone doesn't like a certain brand of bike, then they shouldn't buy one. But criticize another person's bike? That's a real a-hole move. I don't like particular brands, but that's my personal opinion, and I would never tell someone not to but one.
> A variety of brands & their philosophies keeps every manufacturer on their toes, and helps us all. Just like how SRAM has made Shimano & Campagnolo step it up. It helps us all.
> So get on a Giant, Fuji, Trek, Specialized, Colnago, Pinarello, Felt, Look Bianchi or a Performance/Nashbar bike or any other, test it out, get fitted, and ride. Pay no attention to the looks, comments or attitude.


I've been on rides with people who have said things like this. What they saw as a "condescending look", I saw as another cyclist looking at the bike to see what it was. No condescension involved.

Maybe people who see these looks everywhere are the ones who think their bike isn't 'as good' as those expensive exotics?

(FTR: I'm currently riding a 2010 Raleigh Sport - Raleigh's entry level road bike.)


----------



## GDTRFB

PlatyPius said:


> I've been on rides with people who have said things like this. What they saw as a "condescending look", I saw as another cyclist looking at the bike to see what it was. No condescension involved.
> 
> Maybe people who see these looks everywhere are the ones who think their bike isn't 'as good' as those expensive exotics?
> 
> (FTR: I'm currently riding a 2010 Raleigh Sport - Raleigh's entry level road bike.)


There is a difference in the looks, and it's not hard to figure out. That's backed up by all of the nasty comments that a small minority of forum members make. Just read some of the comments that people write about Trek (mostly) or Specialized bikes when someone posts a pic of their new ride. Nasty, negative comments that provide nothing. Who cares what someone else rides? What makes a bike boring? If someone likes their bike, then that's great. There are too many cyclists out there who think that it's all about having a bike that is "superior" to another person's.


----------



## TomH

Pete2 said:


> What makes a bike boring?


Trek stickers. 
*rimshot*


----------



## voodooguy

A dime a dozen, I'll take one for a commuter. I have not been a fan of Trek or Specialized. Trek, I guess, strikes me as the bicycle equivalent to McDonalds. Now, I know I may be way off base and there is really nothing that says they are inferior for any particular reason, that is just my opinion. You know, I honestly cannot say that I've ever even ridden one! Go figure. Specialized has taken the technology to the point where the control of the bike leaves the hands of the rider. My best example of that is the intelligent shocks they came up up with. I can't speak to the equivalent of this on their road bikes. But them doing this on the MTB just irked me. Again, never rode one, have no desire to even try, maybe I should. The biggie with me and Specialized: The LBS by me sells nothing but Spec. (at least as far as I've seen) Good LBS, great staff and all... But this is simply closed minded and robs the consumer of options. When I upgraded I went with Cervelo via online w/o even riding one... I love it and have another upgrade on the way (This time through an LBS of course) Go figure.


----------



## PlatyPius

voodooguy said:


> The biggie with me and Specialized: *The LBS by me sells nothing but Spec. (at least as far as I've seen) Good LBS, great staff and all... But this is simply closed minded and robs the consumer of options.* When I upgraded I went with Cervelo via online w/o even riding one... I love it and have another upgrade on the way (This time through an LBS of course) Go figure.


For those who don't know, Specialized has a list of "approved" companion brands that shops can also sell. Electra and Raleigh are 2 of them.


----------



## Fish_Sticks

Here is a point of view from a relative noob to the scene.

7 years ago, I got enough money to buy a mountain bike. I knew nothing about bikes or brands other than walmart grade stuff was junk and I wanted a Trek. I'm not even 100% sure how I knew that name, but I did. By chance, I happened into the LBS that was a Trek dealer, so noone exactly went out of their way to educate me other brands.

I rode the bike around for a while but never really got into the 'cycling scene', if you know what I mean.

This year, I started to get into bikes more seriously, and road bikes in particular. As I learned about components and stuff I learned what made a good bike. I went to back to the Trek dealer to look at their stuff. The 'made in USA' sticker was gone. The price was up. Way up. Their entry level bikes with sora stuff on them were $800. Fuji (I brand I had never heard of a few months ago) had bikes with 105 grade components on them for around $1,000.

This kind of left a bad taste in my mouth. I had a strong brand loyalty to Trek, but I just can't justify that kind of premium based on emotion. 

Where I will give Trek dealers credit is their selection of accessories. I have a large foot (US 12 - 13, depending), and MUST try shoes on before I buy. The Trek dealer was the only store around that had a decent selection of shoes in my size in my price range (under $100). I knew I was overpaying when I bought the Bontrager Race Mountain MTB shoes for $90, but they were the first ones to fit without pressure points, and I needed shoes that day. 

Having a background in motorcycles, I now kind of see Trek as I see Harley Davidson, although not as bad (yet). H-D is a clothing and lifestyle brand that sells motorcycles as a sideline. Trek is still focused on their bikes, but is heavily trading on their name. Their bikes aren't bad, just you can do so much better with your money (both H-D and Trek). Would I ride one? Hell yes. Would I buy one? If it was all that was sold locally, I would and not feel bad about it. If I had access other other choices, I'm not so sure.


----------



## KCENDER

Wow, what an old thread, but one I am qualified to comment on for once. On the chance that someone new will read this thread I will say: I own three Trek bikes. The oldest is nine y/o and the newest ones are a '14 and '15. I like Trek bikes and have 3 different ones currently. A R'bike, DS and FX, in that order. When I try to review a bike on Trek's site I am shut down. By that, I mean that they don't get posted. Feeling scorned? Possibly, but isn't the point of reviews to improve the product and help potential buyers? I give the bikes 5 stars, but with a critique. I guess that they are not looking for criticism, too bad for them. Every bike has some faults I would imagine, but not Treks. Maybe all manufacture's sites are like this, I wouldn't know. They are good bikes and not everyone rides the latest and greatest horse out there. I would imagine that even the elite riders started out on something less than stellar. Am I naive to think that reviews actually involve some room for improvement. Must be a marketing thing. How shocking!


----------



## ibericb

KCENDER said:


> Wow, what an old thread, but one I am qualified to comment on for once. On the chance that someone new will read this thread I will say: I own three Trek bikes. The oldest is nine y/o and the newest ones are a '14 and '15. I like Trek bikes and have 3 different ones currently. A R'bike, DS and FX, in that order. When I try to review a bike on Trek's site I am shut down. By that, I mean that they don't get posted. Feeling scorned? Possibly, but isn't the point of reviews to improve the product and help potential buyers? I give the bikes 5 stars, but with a critique. I guess that they are not looking for criticism, too bad for them. Every bike has some faults I would imagine, but not Treks. Maybe all manufacture's sites are like this, I wouldn't know. They are good bikes and not everyone rides the latest and greatest horse out there. I would imagine that even the elite riders started out on something less than stellar. Am I naive to think that reviews actually involve some room for improvement. Must be a marketing thing. How shocking!


I had the same experience, asked and then had explained to me that Trek only accepts or publishes reviews for the current models being shown on the site, including the model year. After an invitation from Trek I attempted to review a 2014 Doamne, but the review went into the ether layer as the 2015's were already out and being listed on the site.


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## KCENDER

Not sure my response went through. Good answer. Wouldn't it be nice to get some reaction from actual customers like you and me?


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## PJ352

KCENDER said:


> Not sure my response went through. Good answer. Wouldn't it be nice to get some reaction from actual customers like you and me?


I'm sure Trek and others get plenty of feedback via emails, calls, communications through LBS reps.. but on their websites they want to control that feedback.

IMO a better... _forum_ for such feedback is this and similar sites. 

Adhere to site protocol and say pretty much anything you want, both positive and negative.. unedited. Lots of folks searching out bikes will gets hits and view your feedback. Just be aware that you'll likely get counterpoints to your points. 

Trek


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## Shuffleman

I admit that I do not like Trek, Cannondale, Specialized or Giant. I have particular disdain for Trek. I do not like the bikes as they are way to prevalent and nothing is "special" about them. I really dislike Trek from my old mtb days. We had a dealer in Savannah who was simply a jerk to the mtb crowd. I swore that my last Trek mtb would be my last Trek and it was. I confess to owning a new Giant mtb as does my son. I bought it because my lbs is owned by a friend whom I ride with. He carries Trek and Giant. My son wanted me to get a Giant mtb like his so I obliged. I ride Colnago and Campy on the road though. I love that nobody in my area rides what I ride. I love going on charity rides and etc. because seeing the assortment of different bikes is great. I personally believe that all of them with comparable specs are good bikes and equal is quality for the most part. I am not sure if bike snooting is as prevalent as some think. 
Another reason to be put off by those brands is that it seems like their owners love to tell you how great they are every time you turn around. Don't believe me, just look at the Cult of Caad thread.


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## Rashadabd

They all make good bikes in my opinion, but to each his own. Specialized and Trek have certainly engaged in questionable business practices, but so have some others (and who hasn't made mistakes right). At the end of the day, I say get the bike you like most, that excites you to ride, to train, to get better and don't waste too much time worrying about what others are riding. Bikes and bike tech can certainly be a bunch of fun, but shouldn't it be about the riding, the relationships, and the terrain/scenery at some point? There is just too much going on in the world for me to invest a bunch of energy into hating Specialized or Trek, or loving and advocating for some particular brand like they are a member of my family or like they pay my bills. Don't get caught up in the love-hate loop, just have fun and ride...


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## Lombard

Shuffleman said:


> Another reason to be put off by those brands is that it seems like their owners love to tell you how great they are every time you turn around. Don't believe me, just look at the Cult of Caad thread.


This is so with just about any bike brand, but to be fair, it appears more so about "counter brands" like Cervelo, Colnago and Pinarello whose owners wouldn't be caught dead on anything else.

It's just another form of religion.


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## fishboy316

I say just ride and don't worry about the next guy's bike. It is fun to look at em but for me I bought the ones that felt best to e. I ride a Cervelo S5, A Cdale al29 MTB and a Trek X09 Crosser. Love em all. Don't have time for the hate!


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## mpre53

Lombard said:


> This is so with just about any bike brand, but to be fair, it appears more so about "counter brands" like Cervelo, Colnago and Pinarello whose owners wouldn't be caught dead on anything else.
> 
> It's just another form of religion.


You mean the guys who feel morally superior because they ride a piece of Asian plastic with an Italian-sounding name on the downtube? 

I mean, in Italian, my bike would be pronounced "Cah-nahn-DAH-leh". It ends in a vowel, too.


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## Lombard

mpre53 said:


> You mean the guys who feel morally superior because they ride a piece of Asian plastic with an Italian-sounding name on the downtube?


Exactly!

In fairness, Cervelos are actually good bikes, but no better than many major American names - and certainly not good enough for the cost premium. But yes, it's amazing how an Italian name on a Canadian bike made in Asia (most North American and European bikes are made in Asia) will sell it. Heck, all they need is that "e" with the accent on the head tube to make its fans hold their noses high and swoon!


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## fishboy316

Lombard said:


> Exactly!
> 
> In fairness, Cervelos are actually good bikes, but no better than many major American names - and certainly not good enough for the cost premium. But yes, it's amazing how an Italian name on a Canadian bike made in Asia (most North American and European bikes are made in Asia) will sell it. Heck, all they need is that "e" with the accent on the head tube to make its fans hold their noses high and swoon!


 I do agree to a point. I would not have gotten the S5 if the deal was not as GREAT as it was. At the price I paid it was worth every penny. It was way out of my price range, till the shop owner stepped in and slashed the price as it was almost 2 model years old.( He also heard me talking about another shop) He found them in a storage container that they keep the extra bikes in. He had forgotten they were there! I was getting ready to pull the trigger on a C-dale Synapse 4 till I rode this bike. Was not the name but the fast I have a couple riding buddies that also ride the Big e' and are real nice guys. Not seeing the snoot, not saying it isn't there mind you. I just haven't seen it.

I must admit I do poke fun at some of my friends with lower end bikes but all in fun. We work on their bikes at my place. We have an Enigma down to Mongoose from KMART on our church rides! I have been passed by a lot lesser bike than the S5 and it is all good. Better motor, but its getting a lot better as time rolls on! 

All that being said The S5 is a heck of a fun Ride!!! Almost always find something new and exciting about it. Putting Dura ace wheels on it now. Can't wait till I get to run em.

BTW: I do like the e' on the head tube! LOL!


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## tangerineowl

To me the Trek bikes look like Kmart bikes.

It is their colour and design choices which to me just look bland and 'naff. (I can see this trend when generally comparing American to European design. Personally, I think its tied in with the culture somehow).

So for me, it is always geo/fit first, then visual looks :thumbsup:


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## robt57

tangerineowl said:


> To me the Trek bikes look like Kmart bikes.
> 
> It is their colour and design choices which to me just look bland and 'naff. (I can see this trend when generally comparing American to European design. Personally, I think its tied in with the culture somehow).
> 
> So for me, it is always geo/fit first, then visual looks :thumbsup:



Me too, and the same for Spesh as well.


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## BCSaltchucker

so you folks all sporting stickers on your gear of Calvin peeing on trekspecializedchinarelloorwhateverwhiptheotherguysride?

seems where it's headed


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## doctormike

When I got into cycling, Lance rode a Trek and everyone wanted to be like Lance. Then bike shops would only carry Trek and everyone owned a Trek. The price seemed higher than brands with less name recognition. Now everyone hates Lance and they hate Trek. Their bikes perform as well as any other. I have heard the complaints about cracked BB's from most major manufacturers. Their warranty works the same as most other bike companies, which means it your satisfaction is more likely based on whether it worked out in your favor. 

IMO it's more about the visibility of Trek. They have Trek superstores (Target for Trek) and are carried at most bike shops. Someone compared them to McDonald's which is funny because McDonald's sells a million plus hamburgers a year, yet everyone pretends that they never go there.


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## pedalbiker

Lombard said:


> Exactly!
> 
> In fairness, Cervelos are actually good bikes, but no better than many major American names - and certainly not good enough for the cost premium. But yes, it's amazing how an Italian name on a Canadian bike made in Asia (most North American and European bikes are made in Asia) will sell it. Heck, all they need is that "e" with the accent on the head tube to make its fans hold their noses high and swoon!


Or it could be that Cervelos are some of the most aerodynamic frames around without resorting to proprietary parts (and talk about cost premium, they are thousands less than a comparable Trek or Specialize). There is that... pursuit of speed is a powerful thing.


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## jurtu

One reason might be that Trek utilizes a lot of one-off proprietary components and features. Their BB, Brakes, Seatposts are all specific to Trek and you are stuck with their stuff. They also have that IsoSpeed decoupler thing now. Do you really need that? Just more "Stuff" Road bikes are about clean, simple efficiency. It's good, but just different, a little goofy, kind of tricky to work on and some times maybe not so good.

They use what they call a BB90 standard. It is their own, proprietary "Standard." Nobody else uses it. It is notorious for cracking and creaking and making noise. The head set is the same, but not as problematic. They use what they call a "Net Molding" process in their BB shells and head sets. Net molding just doesn't produce a perfectly round, precision machined socket for the bearings to sit in. The bearings sit right on the carbon fiber. After time and stress, the metal bearings compresses and wears the socket even larger and they start creaking or crack. You can try to glue and putty, but should you have to do that? I personally have three cycling friends who this has happened to on their Madone's. Trek was good about it, and tried to fix it for them several time each, but no remedy ever worked. They even sent one guy some super thing shim/sleeves to put into the BB, but they didn't work for very long. They always began creaking again. Finally Trek gave them new frames. At least they made good, but what a hassle.

Also they are still putting proprietary weird aero brakes into some of their bikes that are a pain in the ass to adjust and keep from rubbing on the rim. Especially the ones mounted under the BB for the rear wheel. On the rear brakes that go under the BB, the cable routing always pushes the caliper to one side, almost impossible to adjust perfectly. It also can interfere with the crank arms and are really a pain to adjust. You can do it, but it is just a pain in the ass. And they get CAKED with dirt and mud and water because of where they are. At least they moved rear brake on the new Madone up to the top of the seat stays, where a rear brake belongs. This should make adjustment and maintenance a whole lot easier. But it is still a proprietary Trek Brake.

Some of their high end frames use what they call a "seat mast." Again, a one-off Trek exclusive. Again, kind of weird, and they tend to creak also. You have to use their seatpost and the one bolt seat clamp is makes it hard to adjust your seat tilt quickly and accurately. You have to loosen it enough to get the seat to tilt and slide to wher y you want it, but then as you tighten it he tilt always moves. Its frustrating. Again, you can do it, but so many other systems are just way better and easier. Up until this year, a proprietary Trek seat post slid OVER the seat mast. For 2016 the seat post now slides INTO the seat mast. Why keep changing stuff. It just doen't make anything any better, just different. Although I will have to say that i believe the new way is better than the old. It's more like most other bikes.

And now it looks like the new Madone are using a Trek proprietary stem and bar as well.

They are good bikes. They try to incorporate good new tech. But sometimes just maybe they go a little too far. And I don't necessarily appreciate bike companies that rope you into having to use and buy their proprietary parts.

You make a case that they are really cool bikes, they are. But they are just quite different than most road bikes and ceratainly take have big learning curve to work and tweek them.

So maybe that's why some people BASH TREK


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## kookieCANADA

I think this topic was discussed in another thread a while back...

My thoughts were:

1. "Everyone" rides a Trek (at least in the USA)
2. Armstrong
3. Treatment of Lemond

But I think Trek has stepped up in the last few releases (Domane, Emonda, Madone).


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## Chader09

jurtu said:


> One reason might be that Trek utilizes a lot of one-off proprietary components and features. Their BB, Brakes, Seatposts are all specific to Trek and you are stuck with their stuff. They also have that IsoSpeed decoupler thing now. Do you really need that? Just more "Stuff" Road bikes are about clean, simple efficiency. It's good, but just different, a little goofy, kind of tricky to work on and some times maybe not so good.


I am guessing that you haven't ridden a bike equipped with IsoSpeed decoupler. That or you are too young and healthy to realize how good it really is. The feature makes endurance rides a new experience. It is probably the single most effective device to improve comfort on the bike other than wide tires and rims. I have demoed it on the Domane and own it for my Boone. Really a better ride quality and comfort I haven't felt before.



jurtu said:


> Some of their high end frames use what they call a "seat mast." Again, a one-off Trek exclusive. Again, kind of weird, and they tend to creak also. You have to use their seatpost and the one bolt seat clamp is makes it hard to adjust your seat tilt quickly and accurately. You have to loosen it enough to get the seat to tilt and slide to wher y you want it, but then as you tighten it he tilt always moves. Its frustrating. Again, you can do it, but so many other systems are just way better and easier. Up until this year, a proprietary Trek seat post slid OVER the seat mast. For 2016 the seat post now slides INTO the seat mast. Why keep changing stuff. It just doen't make anything any better, just different. Although I will have to say that i believe the new way is better than the old. It's more like most other bikes.


Simply wrong. Giant, Fuji and other brands also use a seat mast configuration on some of their bikes. The primary reason is better control over the top tupe/seat tube/seat stay junction and how it flexes. This is primarily done on carbon bikes, but it can also be found on various metal bikes from more custom builders.

And to clarify, Trek use standard seat posts on the entry to mid-level bikes. They move to the seat mast design on the higher end bikes (500 Series Carbon and up IIRC). So, the implication that they go back and forth for no reason other than to introduce change is erroneous.

Additionally, Trek offers a seat mast design unlike most others. Most of the bikes with a seat mast design come with a very long mast and short seat mast cap (external seat post essentially). They require this long mast to be cut after careful measuring for the desired saddle height. It can make the bike a very expensive purchase since there is no practical way to add seat mast length if they want to sell it to a rider with longer legs.

The Trek design a "No-cut" seat mast. They offer a shorter length mast and two different length seat mast caps. These caps are 2-4 times longer than other builders caps. That extra cap length yields a 10cm functional range of saddle height (as seen on their sizing pages) that requires no cutting at all. This makes it easy to size up or down on the bike, unlike the cut design.

On the subject of proprietary parts, several other bike makers do the same. Specialized, Giant, Cannondale, etc. offer bikes with custom features that didn't work with any standard parts. Some still do or have in the recent past. If people rip on Trek for the practice, they have some other brands to include


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## Lombard

jurtu said:


> One reason might be that Trek utilizes a lot of one-off proprietary components and features......


While I have no love for Trek myself, to be fair, many bike brands have proprietary components. Just look at Cannondale's pre-2014 seatposts and their Headshok and Lefty shock. Granted those are great shocks, just saying.


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## bg79812

bwalling said:


> Since I started shopping around for a road bike (previously only ridden mtn bikes), I've noticed that there seem to be many people that hate (or at least ridicule) Trek. This includes bike shops (those that don't sell Trek) and quite a number of people on forums like this one. Is it just an "I'm too cool for a popular bike" thing or is it something else?


I


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## PBL450

bg79812 said:


> I


II


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Lombard

bg79812 said:


> I


You?


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