# Is This Bike Worth The Price?



## NotTheDroid (Jun 22, 2013)

Hello, everyone. I am interested in buying this bike. The seller is asking $260. Is it worth the price?

******Nishiki Commuter Road Bike******

The biggest selling point for me right now is the 64 cm frame. I am 6'4 and 184 lbs. It's hard to find frames that large in the used market at any price, and (obviously) I'm shopping on a tight budget. 

My biggest worries right now are the paint chips on the frame, especially the rear fork. The rear derailer also looks a bit weary. However, those might be merely cosmetic flaws.

I'd also prefer bar-mounted shifters, but can live with the old school style.

Of course, I would test ride the bike before buying, but I'd like to read some reactions from you all first, before I decide whether to make the 1-hour drive to see it.

The seller runs a used bike shop out of his home. Here's his site:

John's Bicycle Repairs - Bicycles for sale

For what it's worth, I'm in the used, bargain-basement market because I'll be buying two road bikes, one for me, and one for my 13-year-old son.

We'll be riding for recreation in a very small, historic suburban town in a rural setting. Once a month or so, we'll probably also take "longer" rides (of 10-15 miles) on quiet country back roads. 

For some reason, it also seems relevant to mention that I used to ride a lot, back in the day, between 1980-1983. And by "a lot," I mean several hundred miles a month, both as a commuter and on organized long-distance tours (during the summers). (And yes, I know those dates make me an old dude now). 

So, I'm in the somewhat awkward position of having quite a bit of experience with road riding and bike maintenance, but all of it was so long ago that I'm basically starting over again from scratch.

I know from my earlier years how rewarding it is to ride top-of-the-line equipment; but at this point, I'm just looking to get the wheels rolling again as affordably as possible, with my son along for the ride. If the hobby sticks, we'll both upgrade at some point.

What do you think? Any comments? Is the price right? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Thank you.


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## tihsepa (Nov 27, 2008)

If that bike fits and will get you out riding with a smile, its a good deal.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Get it! Make sure it fits you first though. Turn it over and looks for any cracks in the frame around the BB, chainstay and lower ST area. That rear derailer outer-casing doesn't seem to be seated in its stop and the cable looks new so make sure the gears shift ok. Those cables - gear & brake - need a severe trimming. Make sure the seat post isn't seized in the frame and that the binder clamp still binds. Someone without a clue replaced the handlebar tape so just make sure nothing else is screwed up.


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## NotTheDroid (Jun 22, 2013)

Thanks, tihsepa and Mike T. 

Thus far, it sounds like I should buy if the bike passes a ride test and an inspection for structural integrity and basic mechanical soundness.

Can anyone hazard a guess regarding the year of manufacture?

Any opinions about Nishiki build quality at that time?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

NotTheDroid said:


> Thanks, tihsepa and Mike T.
> 
> Thus far, it sounds like I should buy if the bike passes a ride test and an inspection for structural integrity and basic mechanical soundness.
> 
> ...


My guess would be late '80s. A buddy of mine had a Nishiki as his 2nd bike (heck he sold them - he had a bike shop). He raced on his best bike but the Nishiki was his winter training bike and touring bike when he went to Europe. He had that thing for years and it finally snapped its seat tube just above the BB shell. He loved it and was considering having its seat tube replaced but it just wasn't worth the expense. But he always raved about how well it rode.


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## NotTheDroid (Jun 22, 2013)

Wow. That sounds good. Wouldn't I be the lucky one of the bike I'm considering is the same model.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

NotTheDroid said:


> Wow. That sounds good. Wouldn't I be the lucky one of the bike I'm considering is the same model.


No it isn't the same model (I can tell from the lugs) but hopefully it was as well made.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Considering its age, that bike appears to be in really good condition. If I were selling it in my store, I'd be asking $250-$300 for it. You can try to get it for less, but considering what he has spent on new parts, it's unlikely.

Nishikis were great bikes, so if it fits and you like the way it rides, buy it.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

My guess is 1985. If the tubing sticker on the seat post says Tange 1, it's a slightly more desirable bike than one built with Tange 2. But in either case, agree with those who say "get it" if it fits. Fine bike.


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## NotTheDroid (Jun 22, 2013)

Wonderful! Thank you all very much. 

I'll go see it in person tomorrow. If it passes my inspection and road test, I'll feel much better about buying it. 

If I bring it home, I'll post pics.



Thanks again.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Just don't buy it if it's too big. Set the saddle height & go ride. Bid low!!


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## Roland44 (Mar 21, 2013)

NotTheDroid said:


> Hello, everyone. I am interested in buying this bike. The seller is asking $260. Is it worth the price?
> 
> ******Nishiki Commuter Road Bike******
> 
> ...


Seems like a great deal to me, go for it!!


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## NotTheDroid (Jun 22, 2013)

Thanks again, Mike and Roland. All of your comments are helpful. I'm glad to know that I am headed in a reasonable direction. I am looking forward to seeing the bike in person and finding out if its as good as it looks.


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## NotTheDroid (Jun 22, 2013)

Yay! I bought the bike. I inspected it closely, and it truly is in very good shape. It rode well, too.

I paid "full" price, $260. As PlatyPius suspected, the seller had invested too much money in parts (rim strips, tubes, tires, cables, cable sleeves, and bar tape) and time servicing the bike (cleaning, lubricating, installing parts, and truing the wheels) to part with it for less. 

He used to work in bike shops as a younger man, but now he runs a used bike shop out of his home as second job.

Nonetheless, even though I couldn't negotiate a lower price, I still consider the purchase a bargain. Many of the components are of a much higher quality than I expected to be able to afford, especially the wheels, rear hub, and brakes. 

And @wim, the frame is a Tange 1! 

The seller bought the bike from its original owner, who I suspect upgraded literally everything on the bike over the years (except for the frame, of course, and the front fork). 

But when the original owner sold it, he must have held back the seat and pedals he was using. They aren't bad, but they will be the first items I upgrade. 

The biggest surprise is that the whole package is very light. I don't have a scale, but I would be surprised if anything being manufactured and sold new today is lighter, short of carbon-fiber models or a $1000 price point.

The only compromise I had to make was with my "reach" (I don't know what to call the measurement) over the top tube, from the seat to the handlebars, which feels a bit short. In other words, when I replace the front stem and handlebars, I would like to move the bars forward to give me more room to stretch out. 

But that compromise feels like a small one to make, all things considered. 

I'll post pics shortly! 

:thumbsup:


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Oh yeah it's a good deal but no harm in finding out who is more motivated - the seller or the buyer eh?

That bike has been set up for someone far too small for it - hence the saddle all the way down and all the way forward. The order of doing things is this -


Put the saddle 1/2 way along its adjustment travel to start.
Set the correct saddle height. "Heel _just_ on the pedal with pedal at the bottom and dead straight leg" will be fine.
Set the correct saddle fore/aft. Look up "KOPS" (Knee Over Pedal Spindle) and go from there. Some people swear by it (it's perfect for me) and some swear at it (those who are wrong)  This will cure some of your Reach issues.
Set the Reach. That looks like a 100mm stem and you might need a 130 or a 140. Finding one that length in a quill stem might be a chore (I don't look for them so I might be wrong).
Handlebar height.
Then you'll feel much better on the bike.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

MikeT's advice is, as usual, right on the money.

On the reach issue: a few months ago, I did a slight modernization of a thrift-shop find '85 Jamis Axis. The rider needed much more reach as well. I pulled the old bar and quill stem (top photo) and installed a threaded fork adapter, a threadless stem and a Velo Orange Grand Cru Course handlebar. As you can see in the bottom photo, that bar has an unusually long reach. As a bonus, it also has a nice flat transition from the tops to the hoods. 

I have to tell you that for aesthetic reasons, I'm *not* a friend of threadless fork adapters. But since we kept the bars down low, it all worked out fine (it should have a silver stem and white tape, though). Anyhow, this just as some food for thought in case you're having trouble finding a long-enough quill stem.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

wim said:


> On the reach issue: a few months ago, I did a slight modernization of a thrift-shop find '85 Jamis Axis. The rider needed much more reach as well. I pulled the old bar and quill stem (top photo) and installed a threaded fork adapter, a threadless stem and a Velo Orange Grand Cru Course handlebar. As you can see in the bottom photo, that bar has an unusually long reach. As a bonus, it also has a nice flat transition from the tops to the hoods.
> I have to tell you that for aesthetic reasons, I'm *not* a friend of threadless fork adapters. But since we kept the bars down low, it all worked out fine (it should have a silver stem and white tape, though). Anyhow, this just as some food for thought in case you're having trouble finding a long-enough quill stem.


Good advice on the threaded fork adapter. I dunno why I didn't think of it (as it will give a bigger range of usable stems) as I even have one on my Masi 2nd bike. I then get to use a nice Thomson stem. I put a carbon spacer under mine to get rid of the "skinny neck" look. They're heavy but what the heck (adapter that is).


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## josephr (Jun 17, 2010)

Nishiki made some very solid, nice riding bikes in the day. I don't think I've ever heard someone say "some Nishiki's ride rough"...If the guy replaced all the cables/housings, re-packed all the bearings, and cleaned the bike up as well as he did the others on his website, you got a pretty good deal.
Joe


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Mike T. said:


> I put a carbon spacer under mine to get rid of the "skinny neck" look.


That necked-down look is precisely what I don't like about these adapters, so thanks for the cosmetic carbon spacer idea! Now why didn't I think of that?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

wim said:


> That necked-down look is precisely what I don't like about these adapters, so thanks for the cosmetic carbon spacer idea!


I'll snap a pic tomorrow. It has an o-ring on either side of it.



> Now why didn't I think of that?


I'm not touchin' that one


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## NotTheDroid (Jun 22, 2013)

Thank you for the replies, @Mike T, @wim, and @josephr! It's been an exciting day.

I adjusted the seat height at the seller's house. There was another customer there who helped me. He recommended the "Lance Armstrong" method (or so he called it), which involves measuring the inseam and then setting the seat so that the distance from the crankshaft center (or was it the pedal at its nadir?) to the top of the seat is 89.3% of the inseam length, or some such thing. The math involved in that whole theory hurt my head, but I must say, the bike felt much more comfortable after adjusting the height. I'll try the method Mike recommended next.

I may need to get a new saddle (and/or an angled saddle post) to adjust the saddle fore and aft correctly. The saddle is already adjusted as far aft as it can go. But then again, the saddle position seems to be close enough to correct for the time being, so I'll probably save that modification for later.

Thanks for all the ideas about the stem, neck, and handlebars. I don't think the whole threadless systems were available yet back in the day, but I can see how the modular nature of threadless system opens up a wider range of customization options. (Google is my friend). 

The trick will be to keep my costs down. Threadless stem adapters are not expensive, but it looks like necks and handlebars get awfully pricey really quickly. The range of available options is boggling as well. 

I'm not sure yet how I will manage these contingencies. At some point, I'll measure my shoulder width, and I'll keep an eye on the used market. But I may need to visit a local bike store or two to see what's on the shelves. With so many options in fit and style, I may need some help selecting the most appropriate components.

Fortunately, I'm not in any hurry. I didn't get to ride far today, but it was fun being back on the road again. 

I had forgotten how darned skinny good road bike wheels and tires are!


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## josephr (Jun 17, 2010)

Dunno about where you live, but the only stuff the bike shops keep on the shelf here are the high end stuff...carbon handlebars, carbon seatposts, zipp wheels, etc....I 'support my LBS' as much as a I can, but damn, I've got kids to feed!

On one bike I use a threadless adapter from nashbar and it cost about $10-12 if I remember correctly. The spacers to eliminate the 'skinny neck' look aren't required but definitely make a difference aesthetically. I did a quick search on amazon and found a set of 5 black 5mm aluminum spacers <$10. 

The Nishiki looks nice! Ride her hard and long!
Joe


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## NotTheDroid (Jun 22, 2013)

Thanks for the reply, Joe! I've been on a few short rides, but it has been raining like nobody's business lately, so the Nishiki has actually been spending more time in the kitchen than on the road. 

I see what you mean about the high-end gear at local bike shops. Sometimes, I feel like the proud owner of a Ford Pinto shopping for accessories at the Ferrari dealer. 

I think I've seen the type of threadless adapter you mentioned. If I decide to stick with used parts, it may take a while to find a neck and handlebars the correct size.

Meanwhile, what is this "skinny neck" thing I that you and Mike mentioned? Any chance I could see "before" and "after" pics?


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

NotTheDroid said:


> what is this "skinny neck" thing I that you and Mike mentioned? Any chance I could see "before" and "after" pics?


Here's the pic I promised Wim and forgot. There is a carbon spacer here with an o-ring on either side to hide some of the edge of the spacer (which doesn't fit perfectly as it isn't meant for this job). As for the "skinny neck" - imagine the spacers not there and the neck the same diameter as your old quill stem. As the new type stems are meant for bigger diameter steerers, the stem clamp area is a much bigger proportion and looks a bit out of place with the skinny neck of the quill adapter.

Maybe someone can posts a skinny neck pic. NO I won't remove the spacers for you. 

They work great for adapting old and new standards otherwise.


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## NotTheDroid (Jun 22, 2013)

Oh. I see. That makes sense. Thanks.

Meanwhile, I've taken all the appropriate measurements, and I've determined that if I stick with a quill system (which seems like the simplest solution), I need a 22.2mm stem (for the steerer) with a 140mm reach (for my orangutan arms) and a 25.4mm clamp size (for my current handlebars). I spent about an hour with my good friend Google, and we finally found this:

Profile Design H2O Quill Road Stem -16D 140mm 25.4 - Quill Stems - Stems - Shop by Item - Bikewagon

Merits: 



It's the _only _product I found (new or used) that meets the design specs. 
It's affordable! 

Demerits:



Appearance. 
Is it constructed well enough to be safe? 

What do you all think? 

Should I:



Buy now? 
Wait to buy a higher quality quill stem with the appropriate specs if one should come along on the used market? 
Ditch the quill idea and research a threadless solution? 

Thank you. 

And Happy Fourth of July!


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

That stem, to me, was always the ugliest quill stem to ever hit the market. But, hey, if you think it's a thing of beauty then go for it. Have you tried sites like Rivendell and Velo Orange?


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

NotTheDroid said:


> Meanwhile, what is this "skinny neck" thing


Here you are. Unspeakably ugly, and in complete contravention of the maxim "form follows function." This is "hideous form followed function." The skinny neck topped by that bulbous stem clamp is reminiscent of a toadstool.


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## josephr (Jun 17, 2010)

View attachment 283530


Here's mine as well....sticking with a quill isn't that bad of an idea///. 1000 different ways to skin a cat, ya know?


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## NotTheDroid (Jun 22, 2013)

Mike T. said:


> That stem, to me, was always the ugliest quill stem to ever hit the market.


I agree. I said as much in an earlier draft of my post, but I censored myself because I didn't want to start a flame war with the steminists. 



Mike T. said:


> But, hey, if you think it's a thing of beauty then go for it.


Nope. I'm no fan of its aesthetics, but the price point is attractive, and I haven't found any other quill stems at all with specifications I need. 



Mike T. said:


> Have you tried sites like Rivendell and Velo Orange?


Now, Rivendall's and Velo Orange's websites and products are absolutely things of beauty! Absolutely. Unfortunately, they don't carry a quill stem with the needed specifications.

*sigh*


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## NotTheDroid (Jun 22, 2013)

wim said:


> Here you are. Unspeakably ugly, and in complete contravention of the maxim "form follows function." This is "hideous form followed function." The skinny neck topped by that bulbous stem clamp is reminiscent of a toadstool.


Eww! Just the word "toadstool" is enough to gross me out. The hot nail-polish-purply-pink frame is pretty snazzy, though! Bling!


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

NotTheDroid said:


> I didn't want to start a flame war with the steminists.


No flame wars. We'd just get the ones who liked it, bend 'em over and insteminate them with it.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

josephr said:


> View attachment 283530


A Miele!


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## NotTheDroid (Jun 22, 2013)

josephr said:


> Here's mine as well....sticking with a quill isn't that bad of an idea///. 1000 different ways to skin a cat, ya know?


I'm thinking something along these lines.

For aesthetic purposes, I'm tempted to keep my eye on that big auction site in hopes that a used, sleek-looking quill stem with the specs I need shows up. That way, I could think about my work as a "restoration." Ha ha.

But if my back starts to complain too much before then, the Profile Design quill stem I'm looking at does at least have the advantage of being a simple, one-piece solution to my bike fitment problems, and it keeps my costs down while permitting me to re-use all the rest of my components.

'Cuz if I get started shopping for an adapter and neck, then I'll probably "need" handlebars, and new tape, and brake grip hoods, and areo bars, and a computer, and gloves, and a new jersey, and shoes, and toe-clips, and.... 

I'm sure you get the idea!


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## josephr (Jun 17, 2010)

View attachment 283550


yeppers! Its a 1993 Lupa. Will probably be a parts donor bike soon and the frame to go to market. Its a nice riding frame, but at 54cm its on the small side for me. If you're interested, I'll cut you a super deal. $50 plus shipping and that includes frame, fork, and headset that's been rebuilt. Columbus tubing, paint has some chips though. Horizontal dropouts.
Joe


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## josephr (Jun 17, 2010)

Definitely...anytime you start thinking about 'upgrading' this bike, put the money into a jar for a month. If you still want that item after a month, then it might be worth it. Otherwise, you'll find yourself saved up for that custom steel Serotta that you've always thought was out of reach. 

Be sure to use "nitto" in your search string. Also, Sakae (or SR) was a common manufacturer during the day. I wouldn't worry too much about appearance as unless it has gouges, a hard 30 minutes with maguier's mag polish will take off the anodizing and leave it with a nice shine. There's plenty of threads about polishing aluminum and there's plenty of good used quill stems out of there.
Joe


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## Randy99CL (Mar 27, 2013)

When I got a Univega at a junk shop a few years ago I stopped at the local LBS and asked about old quill stems. He came out of the basement with a whole box of them.

Check around at your local shops, especially those that have been in business for a long time.


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## NotTheDroid (Jun 22, 2013)

Thanks for the encouragement and tips, Joseph and Randy. I'll keep my eyes peeled!


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