# Turn your brights off!



## 2ride (Apr 2, 2002)

It seems as though bike lights are getting bigger and brighter. I'm all for being seen when riding but the halogen like, strobe effect coming at me while I'm driving is almost blinding... and distracting at the very least. Something needs to be done.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Don't stare at it. Once you see it and get a fix on where the rider is, look at the other side of the road, like you do when there's an oncoming car. Even the brightest bike light isn't as bright as a single car headlight on low beam, let alone high beam.

I don't know what "halogen-like" means. Those are LED lights. The strobe effect is meant to be attention getting, and it works. Once you see it, don't stare at it. It's only distracting if you want it to be.


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## freighttraininguphill (Jun 7, 2011)

What "needs to be done" is simply to aim the headlight down so it isn't shining in drivers' eyes. As long as I do that, nobody complains about being blinded. It's just like a car headlight. Improperly aimed headlights are blinding to other road users.


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## axlenut (Sep 28, 2010)

freighttraininguphill said:


> What "needs to be done" is simply to aim the headlight down so it isn't shining in drivers' eyes. As long as I do that, nobody complains about being blinded. It's just like a car headlight. Improperly aimed headlights are blinding to other road users.


Hi, I beg to differ! It is hard enough getting drivers to see a bike rider. The bike light needs to be aimed directly at the drivers eyes to have any chance of being see - at least in the urban environment with lots of other distracting light sources.

Later, Axlenut


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## freighttraininguphill (Jun 7, 2011)

axlenut said:


> Hi, I beg to differ! It is hard enough getting drivers to see a bike rider. The bike light needs to be aimed directly at the drivers eyes to have any chance of being see - at least in the urban environment with lots of other distracting light sources.
> 
> Later, Axlenut


I see where you're coming from, but I've had complaints from drivers, pedestrians, and other cyclists when my lights were aimed too high. One guy in a Jeep even yelled "TURN THAT [email protected]#$ing STROBE OFF!" at 4:30 AM. Even more embarassing was when a sheriff's deputy was blinded by my headlight when he was trying to run a plate. Good thing he was a friendly guy who I knew!


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

If the light is aimed correctly you shouldn't have that blinding effect.

A cop won't give you ticket for having a light aimed incorrectly, most he will do is inform you to aim the light lower. Most cops are just happy a cyclist has a light at all!


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

I've got no problem with bright headlights, but the strobes are ridiculous. You're trying to make yourself seen, not cause epileptic seizures. As far as brightness goes, the brightest bike lights available are not as bright as car headlights, but you should be careful to not aim them in people's eyes.


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## fevans (Mar 3, 2005)

Good, that means it's working. 

I use my Magicshine strobe front/rear, but I try to point the front downwards about 3-4ft in front of my front wheel. This puts the bright spot on the road closer to my bike, but some of the outer circle of light still goes up towards the drivers. The rear strobe get's pointed straight back.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

tarwheel2 said:


> I've got no problem with bright headlights, but the strobes are ridiculous. You're trying to make yourself seen, not cause epileptic seizures. As far as brightness goes, the brightest bike lights available are not as bright as car headlights, but you should be careful to not aim them in people's eyes.


++1. Now that daylight savings time has ended, I ride home in the dark, passing all these going in the other directions with their front lights set to blinking or strobe. WTF. Isn't the front light supposed to be used for vision? And this is on a bike path not shared with cars. I don't need a strobe to see you. 

I think some of these lights can be blinding, if not merely annoying, even when they are pointed correctly down at the pavement. On Friday, a pasing cyclist blocked his light with his hand as he passed me. It was a nice thing to do. So I started doing it. At one point, I passed a guy running who thanked me.


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2011)

> Even the brightest bike light isn't as bright as a single car headlight on low beam, let alone high beam.


Depends on what you mean by "bright". 

In terms of overall output (usually measured in lumens) bike headlights are less "bright" than most car headlights -- this is like me saying the fluorescent shop light in my garage is "brighter" than my car's high beams because emits much more light overall. However, given the choice I'd rather stare directly into a 4' fluorescent tube than an unshielded halogen filament, or an undiffused LED. 

Well-desigend car "low beams" are easily visible without being blinding because they use a very large reflector with dimples to spread out the light uniformly, and make the filament appear like it's effectively coming from a much larger area. 

What is needed is for bike light manufactures to actually come out with similar well-designed optics--similar to say DOT approved motorcycle headlights--and not just keep dropping bright and brighter LEDs into current housings/reflectors which were not designed with modern high-power LEDs in mind at all. 



froze said:


> If the light is aimed correctly you shouldn't have that blinding effect.
> 
> A cop won't give you ticket for having a light aimed incorrectly, most he will do is inform you to aim the light lower. Most cops are just happy a cyclist has a light at all!


If someone simply straps a flashlgiht (ie most bike lights with a circularly symmetric beam pattern, not an asymmetric "shaped" beam pattern like a car headlight) to their handlebars with an LED light that is actually powerful enough for the cyclist to see the road with, the glare produced will be horrendous.

If these kinds of lights become more popular and lots of people complain about glare, I suspect many places will begin to push for legal restrictions of headlights for cycling (And probably tack on a bunch of other more unpleasant regulations/fees/bureacracy while they're at it) 



pmf said:


> ++1. Now that daylight savings time has ended, I ride home in the dark, passing all these going in the other directions with their front lights set to blinking or strobe. WTF. Isn't the front light supposed to be used for vision? And this is on a bike path not shared with cars. I don't need a strobe to see you.
> 
> I think some of these lights can be blinding, if not merely annoying, even when they are pointed correctly down at the pavement. On Friday, a pasing cyclist blocked his light with his hand as he passed me. It was a nice thing to do. So I started doing it. At one point, I passed a guy running who thanked me.


I think running very bright strobes (I'm talking high power LEDs here, not cheap "blinkies") tis a reasonable thing to do only in the daytime -- in that case the strobe gets attention but since drivers eyes are adjusted to the sunlight, is isn't nearly as glaring. 

When I'm driving I find I have a harder time seeing _where_ a cyclist and how fast they're moving is if all they have is a strobe. Bright/glaring strobes can be worse in this respect. A constantly-on light that is strong enough to actually illuminate the road around the cyclist is a much better bet, as it's easier for drivers to judge both their location and speed.


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## pmf (Feb 23, 2004)

PhotonFreak said:


> A constantly-on light that is strong enough to actually illuminate the road around the cyclist is a much better bet, as it's easier for drivers to judge both their location and speed.


Some reflective clothing or tape helps a lot as well.


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## Rogus (Nov 10, 2010)

I don't know how cyclists manage to ride in the dark with a strobe light. Even low powered ones drive me crazy. I only use the strobe front and rear in daylight conditions on rainy or overcast days. My nighttime riding is done with my light constantly on at whatever setting is needed for me to safely see where I'm going.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

Rogus said:


> I don't know how cyclists manage to ride in the dark with a strobe light. Even low powered ones drive me crazy. I only use the strobe front and rear in daylight conditions on rainy or overcast days. My nighttime riding is done with my light constantly on at whatever setting is needed for me to safely see where I'm going.


Some lights (like the MagicShine mentioned above) have a fast-flicker setting that pulses quite noticeably when you look at the light (and is very attention-getting) but is off for such short periods between pulses that the flicker is hardly noticeable on the illuminated road in front of you. On mine, it's about equivalent to the medium setting, and I use it for most of my commute, except for the darkest sections where I switch to high power. I agree a slower strobe effect would be annoying, but this fast flicker seems to be useable.


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## Newnan3 (Jul 8, 2011)

I mostly use the Magicshine in the strobe mode......It puts out enough light to illuminate where Im going.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

There is a light put out by Phillips that cast a flat light similar to a car, so you don't get that high spill light that goes into other peoples eyes.


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

I honestly don't see how (or why) someone rides in the dark with a strobe light. I would consider it unsafe for myself as well as other drivers. My battery warning light came on last week on my afternoon commute (in the dark), so I switched to strobe because it uses less power. Although it was better than no light at all, I found the strobe very distracting and think it would be easy to miss seeing obstacles such as sticks, rocks, potholes using a strobe for light.

If you want to get drivers' attention, there are better ways. Wear fluorescent yellow clothes. Put a light on your helmet. I guarantee that you will get drivers' attention better with a helmet light. It is the best thing I ever did in terms of safety riding in traffic. All you have to do is look in a car's direction, and they stop. A focused LED beam is extremely visible -- even in daylight -- if you look right at someone.


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## wvucyclist (Sep 6, 2007)

I usually do the low powered cateye on strobe pointed straight out, and the brighter light on the road for actual seeing the road. This way drivers aren't blinded but it is more obvious that there is somebody out there in the dark.


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## tystevens (Jul 10, 2008)

Newnan3 said:


> I mostly use the Magicshine in the strobe mode......It puts out enough light to illuminate where Im going.


Is there a way to turn down the brightness of the Magicshine in strobe mode? Mine seems to be on high output when flashing. I was trying to use strobe this morning in dawn conditions, but man, it seemed bright (everything reflective at the intersection was shining back at me!). I want to be seen, but I don't want to blind anyone!


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

tystevens said:


> Is there a way to turn down the brightness of the Magicshine in strobe mode? Mine seems to be on high output when flashing. I was trying to use strobe this morning in dawn conditions, but man, it seemed bright (everything reflective at the intersection was shining back at me!). I want to be seen, but I don't want to blind anyone!


Just point it down a lttle. It won't blind anybody unless it's pointing straight at them. Aim it so the center of the beam pattern hits the road about 20 feet in front of you, and nobody will get hurt.


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## Newnan3 (Jul 8, 2011)

tystevens said:


> Is there a way to turn down the brightness of the Magicshine in strobe mode? Mine seems to be on high output when flashing. I was trying to use strobe this morning in dawn conditions, but man, it seemed bright (everything reflective at the intersection was shining back at me!). I want to be seen, but I don't want to blind anyone!


Mine seems to be in about medium mode on strobe/flicker mode. But yeah pointing it a bit down is what i do.....

Its more accurate to call it a flicker rather than a strobe. When in the flicker mode i dont notice it much on the objects it illuminates......Im also not riding fast this time of year either. If I was I would go on full high beam mode.


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## Trevor Ash (May 19, 2005)

People expect too much from lights. You hear stories all the time where the driver says "I didn't see the bike!". It's helped by lights, but it's no guarantee. The only thing a light shined in the face will significantly improve is your chance of being a road rage victim.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

Trevor Ash said:


> People expect too much from lights. You hear stories all the time where the driver says "I didn't see the bike!". It's helped by lights, but it's no guarantee. The only thing a light shined in the face will significantly improve is your chance of being a road rage victim.


few riders out there have the lights powerful enough to "blind" a driver.
The flashing taillights (like PB superflash) may be annoying, but there is no way they can "blind" anyone, and the annoyance factor is to attract attention.

For every driver annoyed at bright or flashing lights there are dozens who don't pay attention or don't notice the rider, or notice them but don't give them any extra room - that's the real problem.

And for every rider dressed up like a Xmas tree there are dozens who ride "invisible", with no (or very weak) lights on, in the dark or dusk - those are the real problem as well.


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

Trevor Ash said:


> People expect too much from lights. You hear stories all the time where the driver says "I didn't see the bike!". It's helped by lights, but it's no guarantee. The only thing a light shined in the face will significantly improve is your chance of being a road rage victim.


Nobody is saying you should stare at people with a helmet light. All it takes is a quick glance to get a driver's attention. I guarantee it will make you noticed. I just glance at drivers all the time poised to pull out in front of me, and they stop dead in their tracks -- and nobody has taken out their road rage on me.


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## JCavilia (Sep 12, 2005)

tarwheel2 said:


> Nobody is saying you should stare at people with a helmet light. All it takes is a quick glance to get a driver's attention. I guarantee it will make you noticed. * I just glance at drivers all the time poised to pull out in front of me, and they stop dead in their tracks* -- and nobody has taken out their road rage on me.


I've had exactly the same experience, multiple times. Bam, they hit the brakes.

It doesn't take a terribly bright light, but I think blinking helps.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

tarwheel2 said:


> Nobody is saying you should stare at people with a helmet light. All it takes is a quick glance to get a driver's attention. I guarantee it will make you noticed. I just glance at drivers all the time poised to pull out in front of me, and they stop dead in their tracks -- and nobody has taken out their road rage on me.


ditto - and I will bet that even with the brightest headlight lamp lights we use, cyclist looking at a car from 100 feet or more is not even close to "blinding" effects.


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## iclypso (Jul 6, 2011)

My commute setup has a constant beam headlight with a lower powered strobe. As well as being visible to drivers, the headlight lights my path; it is aimed with the latter service in mind. The lower powered strobe wouldn't be bright enough to light the road for all but a low speed ride but the flashing is enough to get noticed.


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## Fixed (May 12, 2005)

*not too bright*

I want the brightest lights I can find. I run a Dinotte 1200L on the handlebars, and a 200L on my helmet. With the helmet light, I can briefly flash people if I need to get their attention. The 1200 is primarily for illuminating the ground.

I want to be seen, and I want to see what's in the road. If I momentarily make a driver uncomfortable with my lights, so be it, as at least I'm seen. I'd rather they be irritated than me dead. Besides, I've never heard of even one instance of an accident from being blinded by bicycle lights. Just don't stare at them, as you would not stare at car headlights.

I don't think there is such a thing as "too bright," but they could be badly aimed.


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## Pscyclepath (May 22, 2008)

tarwheel2 said:


> I honestly don't see how (or why) someone rides in the dark with a strobe light. I would consider it unsafe for myself as well as other drivers. My battery warning light came on last week on my afternoon commute (in the dark), so I switched to strobe because it uses less power. Although it was better than no light at all, I found the strobe very distracting and think it would be easy to miss seeing obstacles such as sticks, rocks, potholes using a strobe for light.


You got it... Battery life is greatly extended in strobe mode, and you're going to have to be out there for more than a couple of hours.


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## sbattey (Dec 12, 2011)

I don't see the point of a strobing front light. It makes me feel like I'm riding in a rave....not exactly easy to see with. 

I do keep my rear light strobing though. It's pretty bright, but the way I see it, good. It's like calling a motorcycle too loud. The point is that if they see you they might not hit you and you should be doing everything you can to be noticed. Blinding a driver doesn't help them see you, it does the opposite. I would be more afraid of a driver hitting me if I blinded them with my lights.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

sbattey said:


> I don't see the point of a strobing front light. It makes me feel like I'm riding in a rave....not exactly easy to see with.
> 
> I do keep my rear light strobing though. It's pretty bright, but the way I see it, good. It's like calling a motorcycle too loud. The point is that if they see you they might not hit you and you should be doing everything you can to be noticed. Blinding a driver doesn't help them see you, it does the opposite. I would be more afraid of a driver hitting me if I blinded them with my lights.


Your right, a strobing front light by itself is useless to see with. However you need, or at least should have, a flashing front light in ADDITION to the front main light. The main light would be used to see with, and a separate flashing or strobing light to attract attention to you. You can have the brightest headlight for bicycles made, but due to their small pinhead size light heads you won't get noticed like you would with a larger diameter car or motorcycle headlight. Even modern motorcycles companies realize that a single headlight is a less visible then dual headlights, so they now incorporate a flasher, or a strobe, in the headlight to attract attention. Color wise a flasher in the front can legally be either white or amber but not red; I have a amber flasher and have very few people not seeing me. I also incorporate a inexpensive helmet light that has a flood pattern to it, but I can use it to beam into a car window if needed to get them to see me.


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## Aushiker (Mar 23, 2008)

2ride said:


> It seems as though bike lights are getting bigger and brighter. I'm all for being seen when riding but the halogen like, strobe effect coming at me while I'm driving is almost blinding... and distracting at the very least. Something needs to be done.


You have some support from a London taxi driver it seems.

I guess this is getting carried away? 










Andrew


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