# Internal nipples on carbon rims



## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

Is it better to use internal nipples on carbon rims?
Since the hole in the rim would be smaller is there less chance of cracking?
Thinking of trying some cheap chinese rims but concerned about reports of cracking at spoke holes. I rarely true my wheels so access is not a problem.


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## simonaway427 (Jul 12, 2010)

The "trueness" of a rim isn't driven by you, its driven by the rim.

If its a clincher, not a huge deal. Tubular? Different story.


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## Zen Cyclery (Mar 10, 2009)

I would think that the larger spoke holes would be more prone to cracking, particularly when the spoke holes are drilled out of the carbon. Carbon gets most of its strength from unidirectional, continuous strands and I would assume that the smaller the spoke hole, the stronger the rim.


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## JimP (Dec 18, 2001)

+1 on what Zen says. The question is whether the rim was drilled/molded for internal nipples or not. If the hole is large enough for an external nipple, trying to use it with internal nipples won't do any good. The only company that I have heard of that molds the spoke holes is ENVE, the rest must be drilling them. The holes in the ENVE rim are small and designed for internal nipples.


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## SBH1973 (Nov 21, 2002)

Here's Rolf Wheels making the case for internal nipples:

Internal-Nipples.wmv - YouTube

Last year Imported a large number of Gigantex carbon clinchers - really nice rims, to be sure. But they used internal nipples, which proved to be something of a turn-off for customers. When I decided to carry Gigantex carbon tubulars this year, I made sure they were drilled for external nipples - and center-drilled as well, which gives customers the option of using a 16:8 drilled hub. Gigantex's standard drilling is offset for internal nipples, which suggests they think internal nipples are superior (well, maybe that's what it suggests - who knows). And maybe they have some advantages. But my sense is that hobbyists and most custom builders want to use external nipples, which perform just fine.


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## boneman (Nov 26, 2001)

*As a buyer of those nice rims...*

I bought a couple of the 45mm, 20/24 and they built up into a really nice wheel using pillar spokes and nipples with WI hubs. I've been building my own for over 35 years but this was my first go at carbon rims and internal nipples.

The reality is there is little difference in the actual build except for calculating the proper spoke length to include the spoke bed thickness of the rim, buying/building a tool so that the threading of the nipples was uniform during the initial lacing and lastly, getting an internal nipple tool/socket.

I don't true my wheels with the tire's on, tub or clincher, so internal or external makes little difference to me.

Logic tells me that the smaller hole would be stronger but I have no evidence to offer on that one. If I were to buy some of the mainland Chinese rims, I would go with one drilled for internal nipples.


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

boneman said:


> I bought a couple of the 45mm, 20/24 and they built up into a really nice wheel using pillar spokes and nipples with WI hubs. I've been building my own for over 35 years but this was my first go at carbon rims and internal nipples.
> 
> The reality is there is little difference in the actual build except for calculating the proper spoke length to include the spoke bed thickness of the rim, buying/building a tool so that the threading of the nipples was uniform during the initial lacing and lastly, getting an internal nipple tool/socket.
> 
> ...


Which rims did you use and where did you buy them?
I am a bit hesitant ordering rims direct from China and realize it could be an experiment gone bad. The higher end rims like Enve are just more than I am willing to spend.
I would feel more comfortable with Boyd but even those are expensive and would prefer to build my own since I am used to doing it.


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## boneman (Nov 26, 2001)

*Bikehubstore via EBay*

I got them from Brandon who is Bikehubstore and had posted a pair of 45mm carbon clincher 20/24 rims on EBay. As he mentioned above, they didn't sell that well and the carrying cost of that sort of stock means you have to find as many channels as possible to liquidate stock.

Gigantex only sells to OEM's and the trade. While I don't like their policy, given the proliferation of manufacturers on the mainland, I understand their position of maintaining their reputation.

I may go to the Taiwan bike show next year and try to source some there or try a local OEM to see if he'll sell some rims versus finished wheels.


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## c_h_i_n_a_m_a_n (Mar 3, 2012)

What is the size of the spoke wrench required for these 12mm Sapim internal 'inverted 14G nipples?
Sapim 12mm Aluminum Alloy Poly-Ax INTERNAL Nipples -14G - Silver

Managed to find this spoke wrench? A 3.2mm spoke wrench ...
Park Tool Square Socket Spoke Wrench - SW16 | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com

I presume the calculation for the spoke length will be different too, as most, if not all of the threads of the spokes will be inside the rim?


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

I have decided against ordering carbon rims from China.
In spite of my desire to build up carbon wheels I feel the risk of something going wrong is too high.
Worried more about the safety factor than losing money.
I would be ok with using something like Enve rims but the cost is far too high.
Will continue riding my hand built alloy wheels which are fairly light and have been trouble free.


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