# Another Giant?



## drevelo66 (Jan 22, 2005)

Would you buy another Giant roadbike? Based on the one that you currently ride? Why or why not?

For the record, I definitely would. This was the first new road bike that I purchased in over a decade, and I was floored. While there may be more exotic bikes out there, I feel that this bike (the 2003 TCR2) delivered plenty, especially for the price. I liked it so much, that when my wife wanted a new bike, she bought an OCR based on how much I raved about my Giant.

I don't even mind the ONCE yellow anymore  !


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## sbindra (Oct 18, 2004)

*Nothing But Giant*

I do not think I would buy any bike other than a Giant. I bought a TCR Composite 2 about 5 months ago and after 2,500 miles, it is a great ride. Also, dollar for dollar, I am convinced that Giant is the best value for Composite bikes. For $1,800, I got a carbon fibre frame and full Ultegra bike.


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## drevelo66 (Jan 22, 2005)

sbindra said:


> I do not think I would buy any bike other than a Giant. I bought a TCR Composite 2 about 5 months ago and after 2,500 miles, it is a great ride. Also, dollar for dollar, I am convinced that Giant is the best value for Composite bikes. For $1,800, I got a carbon fibre frame and full Ultegra bike.


This is what I mean-a lot of value for the price. Any pictures?


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## BOppy (May 9, 2002)

*Awesome ride*

I bought my Giant on my 40th birthday last year (April 30); 3400 miles later, my only doubt is whether I should have splurged for the dura-ace TCR1. Mine is the '04 TCR2 composite. Only upgrades: carbon water bottle cage, a cateye with cadence, and a 12-27 cassette. Definitely the best bang for the buck.


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## drevelo66 (Jan 22, 2005)

*Believe Homer put it best:*



BOppy said:


> I bought my Giant on my 40th birthday last year (April 30); 3400 miles later, my only doubt is whether I should have splurged for the dura-ace TCR1. Mine is the '04 TCR2 composite. Only upgrades: carbon water bottle cage, a cateye with cadence, and a 12-27 cassette. Definitely the best bang for the buck.


"Awwwwhhhh (drool)..."


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## Tig (Feb 9, 2004)

I've had my TCR Comp for a year now and can't think of a single problem I've experienced with it. It rides smooth on rough pavement, corners like its on rails, plenty stiff in the BB for climbing and blasting out of corners, and is light as I'll ever need. I bought the frame/fork when I worked for a dealer for an EP $1080, so it was a sweet deal. Even at the retail price, it is a great deal for a carbon fiber bike.

It has some competition in my garage, however. An old yet fun steel lugged fixed gear and a Giant NRS1 full suspension MTB. The TCR doesn't get too many rides when the trails are dry after work. The fixie gets many more rides on the weekends with group rides. 

The TCR is missing only one thing... soul. I love how it rides, but it just doesn't grab the heart like the other bikes. The fun factor isn't as strong for some reason. 

Would I buy another Giant? _Maybe_, but no need for that in the near future. For cross country MTB races, I'm looking to buy a Soulcraft single speed. The NRS will live for a while and not get too worn out. I'm also looking to have a custom Waterford lugged steel fixie built, which means the TCR will have even more competition!

<img src="http://photos1.blogger.com/img/4/1123/1024/TCR%201c.1.jpg">


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## drevelo66 (Jan 22, 2005)

These are good points; Giant puts out some great bikes, but as you said, they don't capture the imagination the way a Colnago or a Steelman would...


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## BOppy (May 9, 2002)

I've heard this before, but personally, I can't buy this argument. The enthusiasm you have for your bikes isn't a reflection of a bike, but rather your preference. Sure, I see a Colnago C-50 and I think "nice paint!" and "he probably drives a cadillac!". But I didn't want paint - I wanted clearcoated, woven carbon. And I don't want a Cadillac - my Toyota truck is what I wanted. Sure, I may be sneared at by some of the guys riding Colnagos or Serottas, but what do I care? I love my Giant - wanted it from the first time I saw it. I can't say that about any other bike in years!


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## drevelo66 (Jan 22, 2005)

*Don't get me wrong...*



BOppy said:


> I've heard this before, but personally, I can't buy this argument. The enthusiasm you have for your bikes isn't a reflection of a bike, but rather your preference. Sure, I see a Colnago C-50 and I think "nice paint!" and "he probably drives a cadillac!". But I didn't want paint - I wanted clearcoated, woven carbon. And I don't want a Cadillac - my Toyota truck is what I wanted. Sure, I may be sneared at by some of the guys riding Colnagos or Serottas, but what do I care? I love my Giant - wanted it from the first time I saw it. I can't say that about any other bike in years!


...while I was agreeing that Giant isn't thought to be a "sexy" bike, my wallet and Toyota tell me to be pragmatic, and I'll pick the Giant every time. (Great minds think alike!) But there is no denying that people look for a certain "oomph," an intangible quality usually earned over time. But I enjoy my TCR just as much as the dude riding his Serotta...

...and with the money I saved, I can get buy a ONCE uniform and pretend that Manolo Saiz is driving beside me screaming, _"Venga, venga!"_

Seriously, if I were to upgrade from my TCR 2, it would be to TCR carbon-I have been that impressed. The "tingle" one gets from other bikes? I get that from inside, too.


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## sbindra (Oct 18, 2004)

*My Imagination*

You can have the imagination that the Colnago or Steelman provides. With the cash I saved, I'll provide my own imagination climbing the Tourmalet this summer on my Giant, drinking local wine every night and making eyes with cute french girls that find bike riders oh so sexy. 

Another thing I really like about the Giant carbons is that my TCR Composite 2 frame is the same as the T-Mobile frame. The only frame difference between the models is the TCR Composite 2 fork has an alloy steerer and the more expensive models have a carbon steerer.


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## KATZRKOL (Mar 4, 2004)

*Not quite. .*



sbindra said:


> Another thing I really like about the Giant carbons is that my TCR Composite 2 frame is the same as the T-Mobile frame.


If you think they are identical you're kidding yourself. I fully believe that the pros have extra layups of carbon in some areas to stiffen the frame up.


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## KATZRKOL (Mar 4, 2004)

*Yea, you're right. .*



Tig said:


> The TCR is missing only one thing... soul. I love how it rides, but it just doesn't grab the heart like the other bikes. The fun factor isn't as strong for some reason.
> QUOTE]
> 
> I love my TCR Composite with full Record, but it I get weak in the knees when I see a C50. The Giant is squeezed out of an Taiwanese factory by people who could care less about bikes.  So, I plan on getting some soul this spring (buying a C50).


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## sbindra (Oct 18, 2004)

KATZRKOL said:


> If you think they are identical you're kidding yourself. I fully believe that the pros have extra layups of carbon in some areas to stiffen the frame up.


I do not believe so. It is part of Giant's marketing that the TCR Team and Advance are the same bikes that the pros use. Also part of the marketing is that the frame is the same for all of the carbon models.

Trek is doing the same thing. Part of their marketing is that you can own the same frame that Discovery uses.


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## drevelo66 (Jan 22, 2005)

KATZRKOL said:


> I love my TCR Composite with full Record, but it I get weak in the knees when I see a C50. The Giant is squeezed out of an Taiwanese factory by people who could care less about bikes.  So, I plan on getting some soul this spring (buying a C50).


Not to rag on you, but soul is not a factory option!  

Besides, Giants have been ridden by passionate cyclists such as Beloki, Ulrich...oops.  

...anyway, it's being ridden by souful, economic cyclists like me, sbindra, and Boppy!


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## Tig (Feb 9, 2004)

drevelo66 said:


> Not to rag on you, but soul is not a factory option!


When we ride, we develop a connection to the bike. Even a junky bike connects somewhat. A bike that doesn't fit connects, but poorly. The physical connection is easy to feel, especially when everything falls in place... fit, responsiveness, handling, comfort, etc. 

A more soulful connection is deeper and not as common. Maybe its just personal perception. Still, it doesn't _require_ a custom hand made bike, but after riding many different kinds of bikes, the connection I'm talking about is more readily available with a lugged steel, a hand made TIG or filet brazed bike that was well designed and custom made for you.

Some frames just feel better than others, and I don't mean in just the physical sense, either. *You have ride (not necessarily own) many different bikes to discover these subtle differences.* There are too many people with limited experience here talking out of their arses.


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## KATZRKOL (Mar 4, 2004)

*You know why??*



drevelo66 said:


> Besides, Giants have been ridden by passionate cyclists such as Beloki, Ulrich...oops.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Beloki and Ulrich get PAID TO RIDE them.  Do you honestly think a retired pro is going to ride a "cookie-cutter," stamped out Tiwanese frameset? Don't think so. . I HAVE heard that the C40/C50 is a favorite amoung quite a few retired pros.


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## drevelo66 (Jan 22, 2005)

KATZRKOL said:


> drevelo66 said:
> 
> 
> > Besides, Giants have been ridden by passionate cyclists such as Beloki, Ulrich...oops.
> ...


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## TitaniumFemur (Oct 19, 2004)

KATZRKOL said:


> Tig said:
> 
> 
> > The TCR is missing only one thing... soul. I love how it rides, but it just doesn't grab the heart like the other bikes. The fun factor isn't as strong for some reason.
> ...


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## KATZRKOL (Mar 4, 2004)

*It's your story. Tell it how you like..*



TitaniumFemur said:


> what a load of crockpoop - if you want to justify to yourself buying a C50, just go ahead and buy it. But don't put out crap like "Taiwanese factory by people who could care less about bikes". I'm from Taiwan, I've been to Giant - and I love my bicycles.
> 
> What? You think the mininum wage high school drop out in Italy cares more about bikes than someone in Taiwan just because they are Italian and white?
> .


I don't give a rats a*s if you are from Taiwan, or mars. My statement was regarding the location of the factory, not a nationality thing. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder.  Sorry man, it's like Japanese cars. . No passion IMO. . . Just stamped out for the masses. So many things people have high regard for are made in one place or another. . Think of cars (Germany). . . think of nice suits (Hong Kong or Italy). . think of beautifully crafted mechanical watches (Switzerland). Think of beautifully crafted bicycle framesets. . Taiwan. . Don't think so dude. Hey, you shouldn't get you panties in a bunch, as I HAVE a TCR Composite and it is a very well made bike, however, it's more like an appliance than a pet.


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## sbindra (Oct 18, 2004)

*Do Not Get It*

What soul? The difference between many of the products you described is marketing. A digital watch keeps time better than a fine made swiss watch but I understand the passion that you describe with the fine swiss watch. I have several watches and do not own a single digital or quartz watch, all of them are mechanical with swiss movement.

That being said, I have mechanical swiss watches because they do not make mechanical watches in the far east. There seems to be this bias that frames made in the far east are not as good as frames made in France and Italy. If Taiwan has the manufacturing expertise to produce nearly 80 to 90% of the sophisticated electronic circuitry in the computer that I am using to view this website right now, why do bike people somehow think that producing a quality carbon frame is beyond their capacity.

European manufacturers have a reputation for quality because they only make expensive products. Labor is expensive so they have no ability to compete in the low end market. Do not confuse economic necessity with manufacturing ability.

Taiwan and Chinese manufacturers turn out cheap products, because they are needed and there is a demand for them. I shudder to think about the number of bicycles that are produced for sale in China and India alone, likely at a price that is less than what I spend on a good set of road tires.


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## drevelo66 (Jan 22, 2005)

*Didn't want to start a flame war*

Yow...Sorry about that!

Does the line of Masi bikes, designed in Italy but manufactured in Taiwan, have less soul?

Does Giant get a break because the compact frames were designed with the input of Manolo Saiz and his powerful ONCE cycling team?

I have never been big on the belief that handmade=better bike. There may be more attention to detail in a custom frame, depending on the builder, but I think it's juvenile to trash one builder over another. I think Trek makes a decent bike, but they are over-rated owing to Lance' victories; I chose my Giant because the price was right for the components spec, weight, and comfort...This is the bike that got me back on the road, and riding centuries. I plan on riding it into the ground, and if Giant still builds them like this when I am ready to get a new bike, they will have my business. I will provide the (beaten) legs and soul...


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## TitaniumFemur (Oct 19, 2004)

drevelo66 said:


> Yow...Sorry about that!
> 
> Does the line of Masi bikes, designed in Italy but manufactured in Taiwan, have less soul?
> 
> ...


People always get the wrong impression that somehow a Trek's lug construction is more "hands on" and "loving" than a monocoque construction that Giant utilizes. It is amazing to me that in the bicycle industry, you can use inferior technology - but still convince people that you are technologically the best.

Giant's bicycles aren't any less hands made than a Trek, etc... in monocque, the labour intensive process begins at layout. Which after being completed, the mold containing the sheets is pressure baked, with internal pressure bladders squeezing out the excess epoxy and squeezing out voids. Then you have lug construction utilized by Trek and various "ooo ahhh european brands - that operate with less R&D but somehow still manage to advertise themselves as being the best," essentially rolling sheets of carbon layers over a round cylinder to make tubing, make the lugs that one uses to join the tubing - then after it is all done. Glue each piece under hydrolic pressure/press so make sure the bond is secure.

Where's the loving artisian in the process? There isn't one. You're not getting an Italian grand daddy who's built 10000 custom frames building your De Rosa or Colnago (both btw manufacturer in Asia as well). You're just getting a high school graduate at best who needed a job, got one and is trained to do his job. 

What's so bad or so good about that? Whether that individual is in the USA, Taiwan, Italy, Spain? Italy and Spain's economy isn't going too well for a reason... and it isn't because they have great artisans working in industry. If people want to buy their De Rosas and Colnagos, which are higher priced because it can be and also because labour expenses are more expensive in those countries - good for them. But there is really no need to trash other people's bicycles, respective countries, ethnic groups, etc and justify it as if it is a genuine utility. It is perception - scratch off the paint and you can not tell the difference.


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## tyrex (Feb 19, 2005)

Well I think it's a personal thing, either the bike will have the right feel, the salesman will strike the right cord, the price might be lower, maybe you just like the bike's company approach to cycling or it's a combination of things. 

To me it just doesnt mean anything where it's made or if there's an existing precedence tradition of excellence for that country or not. It's just how it makes you feel! 

I use to think that american cars were all crappy and that the people who made them did'nt care or we're all incompetent. I loved Japenese cars and I still do but it"s because I love the way an Acura feels when I drive it. And guess what? That Acura his made in the USA. 

What I'm saying is that; as corny as it sounds; it's a great big world out there and there is lot of passionate people in it, no matter where they come from. It's just unfortunate that we buy into things(myself included) just because of stereotypes, because the news on TV says it was true or just because society says it's right or it's wrong. I say think for yourself, respect other peoples opinion and learn from them but just have fun doing what you do!(I'm starting to sound like those "the more you know" adds on TV..lol)

I just bought the Giant Composite TCR 3 because it was the lowest price for a composite monoshell and a great feel. I had a Specialized Sequoia and I have nothing against them but I don't think the Roubaix composite was worth the difference in price. Giant just has an advantage over a lot of other manufacturer since they have their own carbon factory.

Anyway have a great ride, whatever you ride!


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## drevelo66 (Jan 22, 2005)

*Thanks for the thoughtful post*

I think that this is the last word on that matter...I was originally looking for mechanical reasons if someone were to respond in the negative to my original question, not for a "lack of soul" or some sense that bikes made in Taiwan (and Tyrex brings up a good point-more bikes than we realize are built in Taiwan) are inferior strictly due to location.

Not only that, I wanted to give Giant owners a shot in the arm


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## drevelo66 (Jan 22, 2005)

*For the record:*

Yeah, I know that Zabel got edged by Friere here, but it's still a cool photo!


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## thegood (Feb 27, 2004)

*How original*



KATZRKOL said:


> drevelo66 said:
> 
> 
> > Besides, Giants have been ridden by passionate cyclists such as Beloki, Ulrich...oops.
> ...


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## drevelo66 (Jan 22, 2005)

thegood said:


> Hey KATZRKOL, will you please let me know what kind of bikes the retired pros ride, so I can go get one and let all my friends know that this is the same bike that [insert retired-pro's name here] rides. I'm sure I'll be able to get all kinds of street cred.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> I know that retired Irish hardman Sean Kelly now rides a Trek...with triple chainrings!


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## KATZRKOL (Mar 4, 2004)

*Less R&D. .?*



TitaniumFemur said:


> Then you have lug construction utilized by Trek and various "ooo ahhh european brands - that operate with less R&D but somehow still manage to advertise themselves as being the best," essentially rolling sheets of carbon layers over a round cylinder to make tubing, make the lugs that one uses to join the tubing - then after it is all done.


Less R&D. . ? Sorry, you need to elaborate on that statement. I picture in some engineering rag last year, and it was inside a design department inside Trek. The design engineers were performing stress analysis on a fame using what appeared to by ANSYS FEA software, I'm an engineer, and what they were doing was R&D.


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## TitaniumFemur (Oct 19, 2004)

KATZRKOL said:


> Less R&D. . ? Sorry, you need to elaborate on that statement. I picture in some engineering rag last year, and it was inside a design department inside Trek. The design engineers were performing stress analysis on a fame using what appeared to by ANSYS FEA software, I'm an engineer, and what they were doing was R&D.


Are you sure it was R&D? Trek has not come out with a dramatic new frame design in years - how many years did they sell the 5000/5200/5500/5900?

Just in cost comparison for example - if you have an engineering background, I'm sure you are aware that the costs of developing a monocoque frame is far higher than lugged ones. Finite Element Analysis is so stardard among big companies thesedays that it isn't even really the independent variable in determining whether a company puts much effort in R&D. But when a bike company puts out a model and holds it constant year after year, while another continiouslly makes changes, however minute (resulting in retooling of entire monocoque molds), I'll say the latter puts more effort in R&D.


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## tempeteOntheRoad (Dec 21, 2001)

*I own a already old TCR alu*

It was a TCR2 (full shimano 105) which I still love and ride a lot.

Since then, I upgraded (when needed by wear) to ultegra hubs, bottom bracket, chain, cogs. Look Keo pedals, OpenPro rims. (I still lust for wheels that would be worth more than my complete bike though! That I believe in)

It's still a pretty cheap bike. Not as light as others. But it could be; it's just a matter of money and components. The frame remains an extremely light aluminium frame that withstood my weight (averaged 175 to 197 pounds over the years) and remaines solid. Excellent fork.

Nothing to say about it. Except I am not rich and managed to budget for nice Sidi shoes, enough shorts and bibs and long pants, and shoe covers and fresh helmet, and spare tubes and new tires, and tools and pump and... The list goes on. Thanks to my cheap Giant: I ride.

Also there is a lot of hype about a brand. Know that; it's all about marketing and taking advantage of your insecurity... And also since we're at it, there is much nicer than Colnago, with all due respect, if you want an exotic bike and get some flashy bang for your buck, go get a Morati, a C-4, a Passoni, a Pegoretti, a Monoc... Not a stupid Colnago!!!

But there is still nothing like kicking some arse on a cheap bike. You cannot really tell by looking at the bike if it's got a souped-up engine...


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## sbindra (Oct 18, 2004)

*Fancy Pedigree*

This weekend I was ogling over a beautiful Kuota at my local shop. In magazines and on the web, the company promotes their Italian pedigree. Yet, my understanding is that almost all the frames are made by Martec, a manufacturer in Taiwan that manufactures bikes for Giant, among several others. Even the bikes that are supposedly made in Italy like Colnago, where does the raw material come from? Are the tubes rolled in some factory in the far east, the lugs formed and then the raw parts sent to Italy to be glued and bonded so the frame can be designated as made in Italy. Even my Giant has an American flag on it with the notation "Designed in the U.S.A.". Directly below it is the "Made in Taiwan" sticker.


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## KATZRKOL (Mar 4, 2004)

*Not Quite. .*



sbindra said:


> Even the bikes that are supposedly made in Italy like Colnago, where does the raw material come from? Are the tubes rolled in some factory in the far east, the lugs formed and then the raw parts sent to Italy to be glued and bonded so the frame can be designated as made in Italy.


Not Colnago. . The C50 has carbon-fiber lugs made by ATR, who does composite work for Ferrari, Ducati, Aprilia, Porsche, lambroghini and as host of other big players in high end toys. And as of the C40, the tubes were sourced by Ferrari Engineering.


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## KATZRKOL (Mar 4, 2004)

*Sorry about your situation. .*



tempeteOntheRoad said:


> But there is still nothing like kicking some arse on a cheap bike. You cannot really tell by looking at the bike if it's got a souped-up engine...


You obviously have a chip on your shoulder about the income tax bracket you're in. I don't buy nice bikes to show them off, I do 95% of all my cycling alone. . 100 mile rides. .alone. I like the quiet and isolation. I just appreciate a nice bike and can afford to buy two if I wanted and have them paid off in four to six weeks.


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## TitaniumFemur (Oct 19, 2004)

sbindra said:


> This weekend I was ogling over a beautiful Kuota at my local shop. In magazines and on the web, the company promotes their Italian pedigree. Yet, my understanding is that almost all the frames are made by Martec, a manufacturer in Taiwan that manufactures bikes for Giant, among several others. Even the bikes that are supposedly made in Italy like Colnago, where does the raw material come from? Are the tubes rolled in some factory in the far east, the lugs formed and then the raw parts sent to Italy to be glued and bonded so the frame can be designated as made in Italy. Even my Giant has an American flag on it with the notation "Designed in the U.S.A.". Directly below it is the "Made in Taiwan" sticker.


In fairly certain Giant builds their frames in house... they invested in their own carbon fiber plant... *shrug* As for the designed in U.S.A sticker... it only exists on frames designated for U.S makes it seems... the folks doing the technical testing last year during Spring Training for T mobile were for Taiwan-don't know if they even have a office other than sales & rep in California...


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## tempeteOntheRoad (Dec 21, 2001)

*Your absolutely right*



KATZRKOL said:


> You obviously have a chip on your shoulder about the income tax bracket you're in. I don't buy nice bikes to show them off, I do 95% of all my cycling alone. . 100 mile rides. .alone. I like the quiet and isolation. I just appreciate a nice bike and can afford to buy two if I wanted and have them paid off in four to six weeks.


Still, when it comes down to the choice of the bike itself: you look at your budget and then you justify your purchase. It is plain stupid to say a Clonago or a Puncharello is a better bike than a Giant TCR Composite super x-tra 100th Tour Edition (whatever).

Once you take a nice bike up to speed, they are all the same (oh yes there are differences in wheel base, angles, fit, it,s all true but all things considered...). You buy the bike that pleases you and then like everyone, you securise your decision to comfort yourself. I have not read many people who wrote they made a mistake buying their bike(s)!

Yet, is a 2005 De Rosa King x-light better than a 1999 Kestrel Talon? Is Shimano Dura Ace better than Campagnolo record?

Don't feel personnaly targeted by my message; it was not my intention. Weather or not I can afford a (more) expensive bike has nothing to do with my perception of a product, my knowledge of the technology involved, or the moral that dictates the importance of the budget I can dedicate to my passion.

Think about Acura or the new Saab 92x ("yea, I really want a Honda or a Subaru, but I want to pay more!" -that's a good sales pitch ha ha ha!). Right now, Argon 18 (just a few blocks from where I live) has the wind in it's sail as we say. Well, these are models you can find under other names easily. Kuota? Marketing. A bit of gel in a fork insert, a lozenge hole in the chainstay. Come on. 

The fact is that I recommand Giant 100% and will buy again! Because when I compare to a Look or a Merlin which I both love, I just cannot justify the cost. The minute I'm due and can afford the best bike money can buy, I'll get a Giant carbon. Although I will also consider cheaper Leader and Scattante... My friend Richard will still be stronger than me on his steel Puch with downtube 7 speed shifter.


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## BaadDawg (Mar 27, 2003)

I have heard this argument before. The Giants don't have the WOW factor because they are too common.

I remember when I first looked at Giants a few years ago I thought they were the equivalent to Huffys.

All I can say is that of course fit is the number one concern, but I have had my 03 Composite (1st yeat it was available) since the spring of that year and I always get compliments on how sexy the bike looks from experienced riders to people who know less than nothing about bikes. That is more than enough WOW for me.


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## KATZRKOL (Mar 4, 2004)

*Wow factor. .*



BaadDawg said:


> I always get compliments on how sexy the bike looks from experienced riders to people who know less than nothing about bikes. That is more than enough WOW for me.


Yea, the TCR composite has a beautiful clear-coat and nice weaving.  I'll be keeping mine too as a second bike to my C50. If something happened to my TCR I would buy another as there is nothing near it for its price. Too expensive to crash a C50 while flying down a hill in the rain.


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## BaadDawg (Mar 27, 2003)

Mine is the 03 with the matt finish clear coat, not the shiny clear coat on the 04 and 05's.

When the shiny clear coat frames came out I thought maybe they looked nicer than the matt finish, but I think I prefer the matt finish.


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## Refuel (Feb 28, 2005)

> Also part of the marketing is that the frame is the same for all of the carbon models.


Not sure what was meant by this. My '05 TCR Comp 1 (medium) frame is different than an '05 (large) T-mobile version. The downtube for the T-Mobile version is shaped differently, and the seat tube near the rear wheel is notched for clearance. My TCR C1 is round on both accounts.

About the big company bike vs. small builder vs. longtime builder where you 'buy' passion, that is a tough arguement. I tend to favour the engineering in the original design, manufacturing methods, and sticker value. So Giant answers well to all three of those factors, along with the 5200 I already have.

Remember, Giant were the ones who had an F1 team help design their rear NRS mtb suspension. They have the resources to 'get it right'.

I am somewhat new to roadieism (3rd season), since I came over from many years of mtb racing. All of the old school roadies I race against/with - even ones my own age - would not consider a Giant (or Trek) because they have to have an expensive Euro bike. Fine with me. Gives me more satisfaction when I beat them on a bike half the price  Odd thing however is that Giants are rare here, and there are mostly Euro bikes.

btw, my TCR C1 is a Canadian bike and has the "Designed in the USA, made in Taiwan" sticker. How do I feel about that? I would prefer if it was made in Canada or US, but really - how many bikes can boast that?


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## sbindra (Oct 18, 2004)

Refuel said:


> Not sure what was meant by this. My '05 TCR Comp 1 (medium) frame is different than an '05 (large) T-mobile version. The downtube for the T-Mobile version is shaped differently, and the seat tube near the rear wheel is notched for clearance. My TCR C1 is round on both accounts.


I believe that is new. The frame being ridden by T Mobile this year is the same as the Team Advanced, which you can only buy in the T Mobile color scheme. Last year ('04), the frame was the same for all models. The '05 frames are different than '04. The geometry changed and apparently the tubing (I have an '04 and have the notch in the seat tube for the rear wheel).


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## Refuel (Feb 28, 2005)

I have heard that the '05's are different. Odd that the '05 Team I saw had the 'old' rear design. Curious, is your downtube round, or shaped (kind of boxed here and there)

I hope my wife understands why I am asking you these questions....


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## Lemonhead (Mar 3, 2005)

Does anyone know if the '05 TCR Advanced *bike* is available in the dream silver/carbon color, as shown on the TCR Advanced frameset below?

This is for a friend who would prefer to buy the entire bike, but doesn't like the T-Mobile scheme. Thanks!


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## KATZRKOL (Mar 4, 2004)

*Racing's for beater bike. .*



Refuel said:


> All of the old school roadies I race against/with - even ones my own age - would not consider a Giant (or Trek) because they have to have an expensive Euro bike. Fine with me. Gives me more satisfaction when I beat them on a bike half the price  Odd thing however is that Giants are rare here, and there are mostly Euro bikes.
> 
> 
> > I stoped racing a couple years ago, and I thought it was so stupid when my fellow amateur racers showed up on 5K bikes.  Only a jackass IMO would race something like a C50. I had a Wilier Izoard with full Record, but I'd only race my Giant.


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## magnolialover (Jun 2, 2004)

*The old expression holds true...*



KATZRKOL said:


> Refuel said:
> 
> 
> > All of the old school roadies I race against/with - even ones my own age - would not consider a Giant (or Trek) because they have to have an expensive Euro bike. Fine with me. Gives me more satisfaction when I beat them on a bike half the price  Odd thing however is that Giants are rare here, and there are mostly Euro bikes.
> ...


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## Refuel (Feb 28, 2005)

> Does anyone know if the '05 TCR Advanced bike is available in the dream silver/carbon color, as shown on the TCR Advanced frameset below?


Lemonhead, where did you get that pick of a silver/carbon '05 with 'Advanced' graphics? It has the notched seattube, and squared downtube like the advanced I saw, and not like my '05 TCR C1.

I know Aussies, Euros, and other countries around the world get different 'packages' than Canadians and US.

Might want to see if a local shop can talk to the Giant rep in your area.


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## sbindra (Oct 18, 2004)

*Interesting Quip*

After my ride yesterday, I stopped in a deli to get a sandwich before I went home. I had my Giant with me. While in line, met a guy who asked me about my riding, how far I had gone, etc. He told me that he rode in the morning about 30 miles and that he liked to do about 350 miles a months. The rest of our conversation:

Man: Nice bike.

Me: Thanks, I like it.

Man: Yeah, I ride a Colnago C-40.

Me: Really, that's a nice bike.

Man: Ah, same s*#t. Enjoy the rest of the day.


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## Lemonhead (Mar 3, 2005)

Refuel said:


> Lemonhead, where did you get that pick of a silver/carbon '05 with 'Advanced' graphics? It has the notched seattube, and squared downtube like the advanced I saw, and not like my '05 TCR C1.


I got it from Giant's website. It's listed under "Framesets" in the 2004 bicycles area. And although it's under the 2004 bikes, judging from the tubing and graphics, it is the '05 Advanced.

We plan to visit some knowledgable Giant dealers soon to find out whether this color is available as a complete bike.


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## ajh (Jun 14, 2004)

Lemonhead said:


> Does anyone know if the '05 TCR Advanced *bike* is available in the dream silver/carbon color, as shown on the TCR Advanced frameset below?
> 
> This is for a friend who would prefer to buy the entire bike, but doesn't like the T-Mobile scheme. Thanks!


I have one of the silver frames on order. It is a frameset only option. Also I have had this on order for 5 months now and it may be until June that I get the frame. I have also heard reports that they have canceled separate frames entirely and they have also pulled them from the website so this may be correct as well.

If he wants the entire bike then he has to get T-Mobile color and if he sees that bike he should get it before he has to wait a long time to have it.


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## aliensporebomb (Jul 2, 2002)

*Yep...*

My 2002 alu TCR2 is pushing 4000 miles and riding great. I just replaced
the stock SPD-R style pedals and replaced them with Ultegra SPD-SL's.

Would I like a carbon model? Yes please. But I'll ride this a bit more first.
I'd love Ksyrium SSC SL's on this one but so far I've had no problems.


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## olds_cool (Feb 14, 2005)

*i'm diggin' my ocr composite....*

it's one of the nicest, if not THE nicest, handling bikes and fitting bikes i've ever owned. i don't race crits, so the extra centimeter and a half of wheelbase don't bother me. stiff as my scandium frame bike, but way smoother. i'm over 200 pounds and six two and get no flex. i don't know about the soul thing...i feel that once cycling left the relm of steel, soul was lost anyway. i do know i can't see the giant sticker when i ride, but i can see this wicked molded looking headtube and that is cool. i can see these swoopy stays and lots of tube profile. i do know i look forward to ripping down mountains now, at speeds i wouldn't dare touch on my "racing" bike. i also know it fits, and it doesn't look weird with some highrise stem or lots of spacers. kinda like a custom fit for me. it's a tool, but a sexy looking one. 
when it comes right down to it, anyone with any machining/welding skills would know how to put together a bike. alignment, prep and finish are all part of putting together many products. probably be the same for building a carbon bike or a carbon heliocoptor blade. knowing how to do your task properly produces a quality finished product. as far as some old italian guy designing my geometery, well, really, who cares. if you notice, not too many us companies follow the italian geometry, cause crit racing in the US requires a different style of bike than bombing down the dolomites, i guess. plus, the basic layout of a bike has been around forever, so it would be harder to screw it up than to get it right, if you paid any attention whatsoever to what you were doing. 
also, most of the 3000 dollar italian carbon bikes do come from the orient. not all, but most. and finally, if you really think that colnago's c-50 isn't put together on some heartless assembly line, you are kidding yourself. ernesto isn't standing there with a glue can, you know. those things are churned out in batches, like everything else made out of carbon. or non-custom bikes in general. half the euro peloton including the non pro-tour teams get those things for free. that's one of the reasons why you pay so much for it. you are supporting the pros. somebody has to cover the cost of several hundred if not thousand free c-50s handed out throughout the world each year. 
i'm pretty sure giant is one of the leading edge carbon shops.


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## Trevor! (Feb 28, 2004)

*Been there done that.*

Rode a Giant TCR Composite 1 for exactly one year and got rid of it. Great bike but then found it to be a tad uncomfortable and not the stiffest rig in the world. I also found that compact is not as great as its made out to be. Its just about mass production squeezing as many people on to as few frames as possible.

Good bikes, granted you fall perfectly into the fit. A little over and the character of the bike seems to get lost.


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