# Feedback on Centaur vs. Chorus



## TNSquared (Apr 30, 2003)

First, lets just get it out in the open and be done with it - I've run nothing but Shimano on all my bikes up until now, but I'm ready to see the light so I'm here seeking some input. 

I'm getting ready to build up a new frame, and assumed until a few days ago that I'd run Ultegra. Now I'm considering either Centaur or Chorus - for a change of pace, because Ultegra 10 is rumored to be on the horizon, and because this an italian frame that just seems to want Campy on it. 

I'm a little gun shy about dropping the change for Chorus on my first Campy group *if* the unthinkable happens and I find I just don't like Campy. That's a sizeable investment for an experiment. The price of Centaur is much easier to swallow, and if I like it the next time it will be at least Chorus for me. But how good a representation of the Chorus and Record groups will Centaur give me? For those of you with the proper frame of reference (i.e. have run Ultegra, and will admit it) - how close to Ultegra will Centaur run?

On the other hand - this is a higher-end frame, so I hesitate to put to "low" a group on it.

Any thoughts appreciated.


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## BlueMasi1 (Oct 9, 2002)

*Test ride?*

The biggest difference that you will encounter between Campy and Shimano are the shifters. I’d recommend a test ride of a campy equipped bike before you make the decision to buy. If you do like Campy go with Centaur and upgrade the bottom bracket.

Centaur marks the entry into Campy high end line and the performance differences between groups is minimal. I own both groups and I don’t see a difference in performance.


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## TNSquared (Apr 30, 2003)

*Centaur bottom bracket*



BlueMasi1 said:


> The biggest difference that you will encounter between Campy and Shimano are the shifters. I’d recommend a test ride of a campy equipped bike before you make the decision to buy. If you do like Campy go with Centaur and upgrade the bottom bracket.
> 
> Centaur marks the entry into Campy high end line and the performance differences between groups is minimal. I own both groups and I don’t see a difference in performance.


In my experience, a test ride is sufficient to rule out something that is entirely wrong for you, but it's not going to tell your if something is right. I know the shifting will be significantly different, and so I expect intially it will at best feel wierd. I figure it will take at least a few thousand miles to unlearn Shimano and decide if I like Campy or not.

I hate to buy to find out, but I will take your suggestion and go with Centaur - it will be a less expensive lesson.

Just one follow-up question: Is there a specfic design weakness or other known problem with the Centaur bottom bracket. Typically I see people upgrading shifters and/or rear derailleurs if anything - at least that's how it works in shimano-world. 

Thanks.


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## bsdc (Feb 15, 2002)

I'm a recent Campy convert. I've ridden 105, Ultegra, and Dura-Ace. I currently ride Chorus and just put Veloce 10 shifters (one step below Centaur) on my tandem this afternoon. My first impression of Veloce shifters is they are hard to tell from Chorus shifters, and they are shifting Shimano 9 speed components down the long cables of a tandem. Centaur is equivalent to Ultegra. I think you'd be real happy with Centaur. But I wouldn't hesitate to put Chorus on your Italian bike. I always hated seeing Shimano on an Italian bike, even back when I rode Dura-Ace. There's just something wrong with that. It's like seeing your Dad in a dress.

Centaur vs. Chorus? You'll get almost the exact same experience and feel from either one. It's more about carbon do-dads and prestige than any real functional difference. Enjoy and welcome to the club!


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## vol245 (Jan 20, 2002)

TNSquared said:


> Just one follow-up question: Is there a specfic design weakness or other known problem with the Centaur bottom bracket.Thanks.


I am getting a bike built and it will have Campy Centaur except the headset will be Chorus and the bottom bracket Phil Wood. Chorus or Record BBs won't work with Centaur. I'm not sure of any weakness, but it is a good place to upgrade. A Phil Wood will never go out. According to www.lickbike.com the Daytona group, which is now Centaur, uses the same bottom bracket as Veloce. Maybe that info is outdated.


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## bikewriter (Sep 2, 2002)

TNSquared said:


> I figure it will take at least a few thousand miles to unlearn Shimano and decide if I like Campy or not.



I was a Shimano rider (105, then Ult then 9sp DA) since the early 90's (before then it was Sachs). I went with the 2003 Chorus/Record 10 two months ago. It took me about an hour to figure out the rear until it became second nature, but the front....

I thought I was sold a "broken" front shifter because I couldn't figure out how to shift to the big ring. This went on for a few hours. After realizing I was a dork, I had the Campy thing down cold in less than two rides.

I still prefer Shimano's front shifting overall, but the rear... I love Campy!

That said, I have a bike coming in a few days with Dura Ace 10.


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## colker1 (Jan 2, 2003)

TNSquared said:


> First, lets just get it out in the open and be done with it - I've run nothing but Shimano on all my bikes up until now, but I'm ready to see the light so I'm here seeking some input.
> 
> I'm getting ready to build up a new frame, and assumed until a few days ago that I'd run Ultegra. Now I'm considering either Centaur or Chorus - for a change of pace, because Ultegra 10 is rumored to be on the horizon, and because this an italian frame that just seems to want Campy on it.
> 
> ...


upgrade BOTOM BRACKET AND CRANKSET. chorus crank has lower iq, it's better finished and bb is around 90 grs lighter. worth the price difference.
chorus shifters work on bearings while centaur does it on bushings. function wise though, centaur works very well. and lasts... i went from sh 105 to campy centaur and liked it from the first ride. 
i f yoou can, go chorus all over. if you don't lilke it, sell it on ebay... chorus sells easier than daytona i think. if you like it, chorus is top of the line for wveryone except cat1 pros on TDF, giro, vuelta...


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## ThumbPuncher (Apr 11, 2004)

*Centaur and Veloce/ Chorus*

I have Centaur 10 on my road bike and Veloce 10 on my cross bike and I cant tell a difference between the two. I know Veloce and Centaur are heavier than Chorus, but as well as these two groups work, I cant imagine Chorus/Record would be worth the $ for me personally. If I want a lighter bike I would be better off loosing a pound then upgrade to chorus. I have 1357 mile as of today on the Centaur and It is only getting better. With such a positive experience with my Veloce components, I doubt I will ever upgrade to anything higher than a Veloce/Centaur mix. 
Shimano wears out and Campy wears in!
Wade


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Just put 04 Campy Centaur (the Century Grey finish- looks like new XTR color to me) on my cross bike, and ordered more for my TT bike. Great stuff- *except* for the BB which is kind of junky. The crank is no great shakes for the money either. I am using a Truvative Rouleur ISIS crank on the cross bike, and am very impressed so far. Similar money, better weight and stiffness. Or you could sprluge on one of those tasty FSA carbon cranks if you have been good.


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## tvphobic (May 12, 2003)

*Centaur BB options other than AC-H and Phil*

Can anyone think of a compatible BB for Centaur other than AC-H (really heavy but cheap)
and Phil Wood campy taper? (really expensive including cups) I'm building up with Centaur Ergo, Centaur Triple Cranks, Centaur FD and Racing Triple RD, and would love to find an alternative. For me, the prices on the combination of Chorus cranks and BB are prohibitive (I spent $320 on my entire grouppo, mint, including cassette, and it's going on a mint Bianchi SL frame I purchased for $175, I'm a cheapskate. If I cannot find a BB option other than Phil, I will go AC-H for the summer, and then buy a 9-speed Ultegra crank and BB when Ultegra 10 comes out next fall/winter.


very best to all hard riders!

TVphobic


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## BlueMasi1 (Oct 9, 2002)

*Record Pista might work*

The Record Pista bottom bracket is 111 symetrical which is the same for Veloce/Centaur. I've seen them advertised as low as US $35.00. I'd contact Branford Bike to see if this would work.


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## tvphobic (May 12, 2003)

*unfortunatement*

I would do that, but unfortunately I'm running triple and using a 1 1/8' seat tube so I will need ~115mm spindle. Racing Triple/Daytona/Centaur is great! but BB is heavy and hard to install. Many people say "just upgrade to Chorus" but Chorus cranks and BB are nearly as much as I paid for the entire grouppo. This is why for someone in my situation considers running non-Campy cranks and BB. Luckily Ergo is great with any crank and FD.




BlueMasi1 said:


> The Record Pista bottom bracket is 111 symetrical which is the same for Veloce/Centaur. I've seen them advertised as low as US $35.00. I'd contact Branford Bike to see if this would work.


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## jvaliensi (Apr 23, 2004)

Try a Shimano UN-72 with the spindle length you need. I've mounted Campy cranks on Shimano BB's with no problems. All things considered though, just use the AC-H BB until it fails, it might last you 10,000 miles!




tvphobic said:


> Can anyone think of a compatible BB for Centaur other than AC-H (really heavy but cheap)
> and Phil Wood campy taper? (really expensive including cups) I'm building up with Centaur Ergo, Centaur Triple Cranks, Centaur FD and Racing Triple RD, and would love to find an alternative. For me, the prices on the combination of Chorus cranks and BB are prohibitive (I spent $320 on my entire grouppo, mint, including cassette, and it's going on a mint Bianchi SL frame I purchased for $175, I'm a cheapskate. If I cannot find a BB option other than Phil, I will go AC-H for the summer, and then buy a 9-speed Ultegra crank and BB when Ultegra 10 comes out next fall/winter.
> 
> 
> ...


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## euro-trash (May 1, 2004)

colker1 said:


> upgrade BOTOM BRACKET AND CRANKSET. chorus crank has lower iq, it's better finished and bb is around 90 grs lighter. worth the price difference.
> chorus shifters work on bearings while centaur does it on bushings. function wise though, centaur works very well. and lasts... i went from sh 105 to campy centaur and liked it from the first ride.
> i f yoou can, go chorus all over. if you don't lilke it, sell it on ebay... chorus sells easier than daytona i think. if you like it, chorus is top of the line for wveryone except cat1 pros on TDF, giro, vuelta...



I agree about upgrading the crank and bb. Otherwise, go with Centaur.


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## Scott01 (Jun 17, 2004)

Tune offers a 111 mm symmetrical bb (steel or Ti) but maybe too expensive for a Centaur group. The Pista lacks a set of sealing rubbers and it's very sensible for water.
Think and exchange for a FSA Gossamer crankset with the shimano ultegra octalink would be the better option to mix with the Centaur group.


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## dessert1st (Oct 14, 2002)

TNSquared said:


> First, lets just get it out in the open and be done with it - I've run nothing but Shimano on all my bikes up until now, but I'm ready to see the light so I'm here seeking some input.
> 
> I'm getting ready to build up a new frame, and assumed until a few days ago that I'd run Ultegra. Now I'm considering either Centaur or Chorus - for a change of pace, because Ultegra 10 is rumored to be on the horizon, and because this an italian frame that just seems to want Campy on it.
> 
> ...


A good source of information (as you may have already heard) is the Campy Only website at Branford Bike (www.campyonly.com). They make comparisons between all the Campy components.

But in general:

Record, Chorus, Centaur (formerly Daytona), and Veloce are very similar in feel, performance, and durability. The biggest differences (other than materials choices such as carbon vs aluminum vs titanium, etc) is that Record/Chorus use bearings in the shifter pivots and the brake caliper pivots. Centaur and Veloce use bushings. The other obvious differences are materials choices which make the higher end parts lighter (but only marginally), but at a significant price premium. For example a Record grouppo because of it's use of carbon and titanium bits, costs approx. 2.5 times as much as Centaur, yet performs essentially the same.

A couple of other noteworthy exceptions are that Veloce cranks use stamped chainrings instead of machined (on par with Shimano 105 cranks). The polish on Veloce is also a little less satiny than the higher groups. But they all perform pretty much the same, with Record/Chorus perhaps having just a very slight edge in smoothness due to the pivot bearings.

Centaur in my opinion is the best bang for the buck; beautiful workmanship, great performance, available in double or triple, 9 or 10 speed, and a bargain at about $600 for a grouppo.

And finally, yes the low end Campy bottom brackets do suck. If you're looking for a good inexpensive BB, look for a Tange with Campy taper. I've seen them for about $20 on eBay. Tange possibly makes the BB's for Shimano (or at least I thought I read that somewhere). Regardless, Tange BB's are reasonably light and have very smooth bearings. If you go with Record or Chorus triple, you'll need an assymmetrical BB; all the rest of the current Campy cranks use symmetrical lengths (even Centaur triple as far as I know).


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## AJS (Aug 7, 2003)

*TNSquared* -

Here's a review of the '05 Centaur group from Cycling News:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2004/reviews/centaur-first-impression

I can also say from my own personal experience with Centaur that it is a very good option and I have no complaints whatsoever - I'm very satisfied with this group and happy that I didn't spend the extra $$ on Chorus this time, (I've owned full Chorus & Record groups in the past).

I don't have the Centaur crankset/BB _only_ because I was offered a killer deal on a FSA carbon crankset that I couldn't refuse. Otherwise, I had planned to get the Centaur. But the remainder of the group is all-Centaur, except for the FD that is the '03 Chorus alu. model, and Record UD chain, (my dealer was sold out of Centaur FD's, and I needed to get the bike built and finished. Also, Campy only makes the 10v chain in "Record".).


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