# Dura Ace WH-9000-C24-TU vs WH-9000-C24-TL



## Philhumphrey (Feb 10, 2014)

Hello All, 

I'm currently looking at a new 2014 BMC SLR01, and trying to make my mind up on groupset. 

I'm primarily looking at the DA or DA Di2, and noticed this evening the two models have different wheelsets - the DA is TL whilst the DA Di2 is TU. 

From what I can tell the WH-9000-C24-TU is a full carbon rim. However the more you read the more confusing it gets, as some sites say the braking surface is aluminium, some carbon and some CFRP....

The WH-9000-C24-TL seem to be an aluminium/carbon mix with an alu braking strip. 

I'm just a little concerned that if I take the TUs I may have wet braking performance issues "if" the braking strip really is carbon. 

I'm a road newbie, after spending 12 years doing all forms of MBing. So any input or info here would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks in advance! 

Phil.


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## Troy G (Sep 30, 2013)

On the rims, both have aluminum braking surfaces. Tl is tubeless and Tu is tubular.


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## Philhumphrey (Feb 10, 2014)

Thanks Troy, 

It's confusing as the TL looks aluminium, whilst the TU is black.


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## Troy G (Sep 30, 2013)

Just had a quick look again and I am wrong. The Tubular do appear to be carbon braking surface but checked the shimano site to try and confirm and did not see the 9000 tubular listed. Hopefully someone with some actual experience with the wheels will answer you, sorry.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

Philhumphrey said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I'm currently looking at a new 2014 BMC SLR01, and trying to make my mind up on groupset.
> 
> ...


I have the c-24's with clinchers. They are good wheels and do have an aluminum strip. They brake fine, but there is a different feel to them compared to a full alloy wheel. Doesn't seem to impact braking, but I do notice it.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

CL = Clincher
TL = Tubeless
TU = Tubular

I'm not sure why Shimano doesn't really advertise the tubular ones. I think they try and keep them only for their pro sponsored teams or something. They are available here:
Shimano C24 tubular wheelset - WH-9000-C24-TU

TL and CL both have alloy braking surfaces while the TU is all carbon. Shimano doesn't have any carbon braking surface clinchers AFAIK.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

deviousalex said:


> CL = Clincher
> TL = Tubeless
> TU = Tubular
> 
> ...


I stay with Clinchers. I rarely get flats, but if I do I know I can swap tubes. Don't see the point in changing. I'm in the ain't broke don't fix it camp. At this point, looking to see future improvements in performance by improving the engine not the wheels.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Trek_5200 said:


> I stay with Clinchers. I rarely get flats, but if I do I know I can swap tubes. Don't see the point in changing. I'm in the ain't broke don't fix it camp. At this point, looking to see future improvements in performance by improving the engine not the wheels.


You can put a tube in a tubeless rim FYI.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

deviousalex said:


> You can put a tube in a tubeless rim FYI.


And why do i want to do that? ...


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## TJay74 (Sep 9, 2012)

I think he is saying, if you have a tubeless rim and have a flat that cant be repaired you can run a tube in a pinch to get you home.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

TJay74 said:


> I think he is saying, if you have a tubeless rim and have a flat that cant be repaired you can run a tube in a pinch to get you home.


Of course I could just ride clincher's with tubes in the face place....


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Trek_5200 said:


> Of course I could just ride clincher's with tubes in the face place....


Your original post seemed to imply that you couldn't do that with tubeless rims. My point being that tubeless is backwards compatible with clinchers.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

deviousalex said:


> Your original post seemed to imply that you couldn't do that with tubeless rims. My point being that tubeless is backwards compatible with clinchers.


No, I just question why the average cyclist would buy into giving up classic tube/clincher tire pair.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Trek_5200 said:


> No, I just question why the average cyclist would buy into giving up classic tube/clincher tire pair.


Because they like how the tubeless rims roll? Maybe they like that they can't pinch flat?


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

deviousalex said:


> Because they like how the tubeless rims roll? Maybe they like that they can't pinch flat?


Not a problem I have. Any other reason?


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

Trek_5200 said:


> Not a problem I have. Any other reason?


no one is trying to talk you into using tubless rims and problems you may or may not have don't have anything to do with the decision someone else makes. deviousalex is clearly just trying to provide information to the OP so please stop argueing as if this is all about you and that you need to justify your choice of clinchers to anyone.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

+1. Some posters seems intent on hijacking threads. If Trek_5200 wants reasons for riding tubeless, he should start a new thread or read the 10,000 or so existing ones on the pros and cons....



Jay Strongbow said:


> no one is trying to talk you into using tubless rims and problems you may or may not have don't have anything to do with the decision someone else makes. deviousalex is clearly just trying to provide information to the OP so please stop argueing as if this is all about you and that you need to justify your choice of clinchers to anyone.


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## Philhumphrey (Feb 10, 2014)

Trek_5200 said:


> I stay with Clinchers. I rarely get flats, but if I do I know I can swap tubes. Don't see the point in changing. I'm in the ain't broke don't fix it camp. At this point, looking to see future improvements in performance by improving the engine not the wheels.


Yeah i'm not sure I really want tubulars either then really. Don't really like the idea of gluing them up. Clinchers seem the way to go. I ride all my MBs tubeless though (even my DH rig) and really like that. 

Are the 24 TLs a good choice? Looking at the BMC site again tonight, I see that the DA version actually has 24 CLs and not TLs as i mentioned before. 

So if I went DA Di2 i'd need to make a deal with the LBS and change the wheels to clinchers anyway....

Any recommendations?


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

depending on what country you're in, the bike specs may vary from the BMC main site/catalog. Tubulars wouldn't be a very popular option since few non-racers ride with them (and few racers use them as everyday wheels). Between the standard clincher and tubeless, the tubeless weigh a bit more but give you the option of tubeless (it's minimal gains on the road, typically more work to maintain, fewer tire options, etc.) so it's not as clear a benefit as mtb (where most flats are pinch flats). Personally, I'd take the weight advantage of the cl over the tubeless option but it's not a big difference. 




Philhumphrey said:


> Yeah i'm not sure I really want tubulars either then really. Don't really like the idea of gluing them up. Clinchers seem the way to go. I ride all my MBs tubeless though (even my DH rig) and really like that.
> 
> Are the 24 TLs a good choice? Looking at the BMC site again tonight, I see that the DA version actually has 24 CLs and not TLs as i mentioned before.
> 
> ...


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## Philhumphrey (Feb 10, 2014)

Steve,

I'm in Switzerland (getting near the alps), about 1.5hrs from the BMC factory in Grenchen. I went to a main dealer last week to have a look and the wheelsets do match the catalogue. 

Interesting thoughts on the tubeless thanks. I'm visiting a few dealers on Friday, so wonder what options they have in moving to clinchers. Normal C24 clinchers may also be an option. Wonder if they'll be able to knock the 1.5k off the bill


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## Philhumphrey (Feb 10, 2014)

Posted this in the BMC forum, re-posting here as I need some wheel advise 

So I called in at the BMC main dealer near me today, and had a long conversation with the shop manager on the SLR01 and options etc. So it's a Di2 i'm going for (so C24 TUs), and we discussed swapping the wheels. 

Basically till now they have two options (i'm going back tomorrow to get some other sets priced up): 

- Sell me the 14 SLR01 without the C24 TU wheelset for -1k, which seems low for an almost 3k (retail) wheelset. I'd then source my own wheels. 

- I was offered a set of Mavic Cosmo Carbone SLRs for 400 more. However they look like 2013s (or maybe earlier) as they've still got the carbon spokes, which seems to have been dropped now. I'm not sure if i like the idea of the carbon spokes, from the hassle it may cause when they break. 

Here's some pics of the Mavic SLRs on the SLR01 that they're now keeping for me (suprisingly a 54, always thought i'd need a 56 but it too big)





I believe other good options may include; 

- Enve 3.4 and 6.7
- Zipp 404 FC
- Potentially a C35 or C50?

Any thoughts or feedback would be appreciated. 

Phil.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Philhumphrey said:


> Sell me the 14 SLR01 without the C24 TU wheelset for -1k, which seems low for an almost 3k (retail) wheelset. I'd then source my own wheels.


I don't think $1K is low. I recently bought a set of WH-9000-C24-CL for $780 including shipping. So, $1k credit seems right in the ballpark...and to your benefit if you source your own wheels and do some homework.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

tvad said:


> I don't think $1K is low. I recently bought a set of WH-9000-C24-CL for $780 including shipping. So, $1k credit seems right in the ballpark...and to your benefit if you source your own wheels and do some homework.


The TU is a completely different wheel form the TL/CL. Yes, Shimano's naming scheme is confusing as hell. These are the tubular wheels that the pro team uses.

Phil - I say keep the wheels, don't ride em and sell them on eBay.


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## Philhumphrey (Feb 10, 2014)

Tvad, Alex is right. 

The CL has a RRP of i think about 1.1k, the TU is around 2.8k. So getting the 1k credit for not taking them is really not an option. 

In fact I just took a look an ebay and they're selling for just under 2k for a set. Makes me wonder actually whether they actually prices them on the CL or TU....I will need to clarify that. 

I guess really i'm more interested in what I should do, if i part-exchanged them against another wheelset at the LBS. The one offer thus for are for the Cosmic SLRs which at a 400 premium for a 12/13 model seems steep (these has an RRP of 2.4k in the LBS). I think the newest variant of these goes for around 2.8k as well? 

I need to get prices against the other wheelsets, especially the Enve's, if they can get them imported to Switzerland still....


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Philhumphrey said:


> Tvad, Alex is right.
> 
> The CL has a RRP of i think about 1.1k, the TU is around 2.8k. So getting the 1k credit for not taking them is really not an option.
> 
> ...


What are you going to be using this bike for? How important is the 'blingness' factor? If aero is important for you, I'd say go for 50mm+ depth wheelsets. On the other hand I think shallow carbon clinchers (i.e. < 40mm depth) are borderline pointless and you can get much much cheaper wheelsets that are alloy.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

deviousalex said:


> What are you going to be using this bike for? How important is the 'blingness' factor? If aero is important for you, I'd say go for 50mm+ depth wheelsets. On the other hand I think shallow carbon clinchers (i.e. < 40mm depth) are borderline pointless and you can get much much cheaper wheelsets that are alloy.


if you just want a good ride get the c-24 clincher's and be done with it. They're very good wheels.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Trek_5200 said:


> if you just want a good ride get the c-24 clincher's and be done with it. They're very good wheels.


I think he should get the tubeless and ride it with tubes for the explicit purpose of pissing you off


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

deviousalex said:


> The TU is a completely different wheel form the TL/CL. Yes, Shimano's naming scheme is confusing as hell. These are the tubular wheels that the pro team uses.


Thanks for the education.

Considering the C24-TU are $2900 retail wheels, the shop's offer of a $1000 credit seems not only low, but insultingly low. I agree they could likely be sold on E-Bay for much more than $1k.


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## Philhumphrey (Feb 10, 2014)

deviousalex said:


> What are you going to be using this bike for? How important is the 'blingness' factor? If aero is important for you, I'd say go for 50mm+ depth wheelsets. On the other hand I think shallow carbon clinchers (i.e. < 40mm depth) are borderline pointless and you can get much much cheaper wheelsets that are alloy.


Alex, 

Condition training via commuting to work to build my condition back up in the first instance (32kms each way with climbing). Then a good combination of long flatish runs, plus climbing. I live close to the Swiss alps, so decent climbs (I'm often in the Engadine) to crest over mountain passes (did Bernina pass last year, but DH with my Intense Uzzi) will be a consideration. 

Like the idea of the Enve 6.7s as they're very aero, so good for flats, but not adversely affected during climbs.


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## Philhumphrey (Feb 10, 2014)

Yes, I think i'm going to take them, then ebay them. 

I will be sending them a mail or calling in to discuss this (especially the 1k thing). Plus there's another local dealer who's keen for my business, so will see what he can do. 

Only issue it seems is that, if I go the 6.7 route, I believe Enve don't have a Swiss importer, my MTB LBS (an Intense dealer) just ordered some Enve's direct from the states. That may complicate matters somewhat....


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Philhumphrey said:


> Yes, I think i'm going to take them, then ebay them.
> 
> I will be sending them a mail or calling in to discuss this (especially the 1k thing). Plus there's another local dealer who's keen for my business, so will see what he can do.
> 
> Only issue it seems is that, if I go the 6.7 route, I believe Enve don't have a Swiss importer, my MTB LBS (an Intense dealer) just ordered some Enve's direct from the states. That may complicate matters somewhat....


Wheelbuilder.com ships international I believe. But at $2,900 for ENVE 6.7 SES with DT Swiss 240 hubs they are not cheap.

I don't see ENVE 6.7s on Zen's site, so I'm not sure if he does those builds. Maybe he'll reply to this thread.


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## Philhumphrey (Feb 10, 2014)

So after a few days, i have a further update. 

I declined the Mavic's and will sell the C24s separately. I was then surfing around european websites looking for wheelsets, then I found a set of 6.7 with Chris King hubs in stock at Evans Cycles. So as the price was reasonable, and they offered 3 day international shipping i ordered straight away. 

On Friday morning they arrived, and upon returning from work I was naturally quite excited to open the box up. 

Well upon opening, one of the two cardboard wheel boxes (inside a bigger one) was open and the wheel looked like it had been moving around. 

Upon closer inspection of both wheels, there seems to be a lot of cosmetic damage on then. Scratches, some pit marks (looks like it's been knocking against something in transit or in the warehouse?) a couple of scuffs, one across the brake track. Plus two marks in the carbon which looks almost like impact marks, or rim defects? Oh and the rear hub is leaking fluid onto the cardboard.....

To say I am disappointing is an understatement, as I had planned to pick up the bike assembled and ready to go on Friday next week. 

I'm now not sure what the best course of action is, in order to get this resolved quickly. 

The Enve Germany reps seem quite helpful, and my shop (the BMC reps) told me they could deal with any warranty claims via cannondale, who import Enve into Switzerland, then there's Evans. 

I guess potentially I'm looking at Evans or Enve sending me replacement rims, then a re-build of both wheels.....not what i really wanted, but I really can't accept them in this state. 

Anyone who's been here, and can give some advice here would really help. As I'm not sure really where to begin. 

It complicated matters that they were shipped internationally (within Europe admittedly) and the cost for me to return them (Switzerland is expensive) would be substantial, not to mention timely. I guess an advance rim exchange is what I really need. 

Thanks in advance for your help! 

PS will post some pics when it's light out


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