# My race/beater Colnago



## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Got my beater Colnago racing frame. I just won this Arte frame and a Cinelli Ram bar in black and silver on e-bay today. The frame went for $615 and the bars for $335. The frame is a 50 sloping just like my Cristallo and the bars are identical to my Cristallo's bars except for the silver scheme. I read in a couple of magazine articles that the Arte frame is decently stiff. I am hoping that it is. Likewise, I am hoping that it doesn't weigh as much as a tank. The seller wouldn't give me a weight on it (i.e., he never responded to that question even though he repsonded to others). Ideally, I would like to get this build in the 16 pound category for racing. I'm going to try to put 2007 Record on it, but 2007 Chorus will be the bare minimum.

This frame, which is made in Taiwan is something that I can scratch, break in half, and thrown in the dumpster without feeling bad about. Plus, the brushed aluminum finish will help hiding nicks and scratches. Finally, I am done buying frames until maybe next winter. Now, I just need to work on building this one and the TT frame.


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

*Nice "beater" bike!*

I know it's too late as you have already bought this frame, but did you consider getting one of the Colnago's from STP? They occassionaly have 20% coupons and that means you could get a Colnago Mix (with Veloce- yeah I know you need Chorus Minimum- :^) ) or Strada (with 105- even worse- blasphemy!) They both could be had for around $2000 with the coupon. I have the Mix for my L.A. ride (my primary residence is Boulder, CO) and it is not a bad ride at all. It is not as nice as my Fondriest Carb Level or Klein Quantum frames but it is still a very nice bike, especially if you are going to thrash it racing. Cheers and good luck in the racing season!!


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Well, I tried everything to get one of the Italian made frames and almost broke down and bought the Active Plus 2 in NS03 to match my Cristallo. That would have set me back about $1,300. Even thought about getting the Dream HX in NS03. The problem with both of those frames is that they would leave me crying with each nick I put in them. That is how it was with my Mino Denti in 1985 through 1989. I will not worry/cry too much about crashing a Taiwanese Colnago, but I love the fact that it has the same geometry and the same name as the Cristallo. Wrecking an Italian frame would hurt, not so much in the pocketbook, but in the heart. That is why I bought this bike. At the end of the day, I could have afforded any one of the frames you mentioned, even without the 20% coupon. It would be like buying a vintage Ferrari and then racing it hard without any regard for wrecking it. I couldn't do it, but some people can. Heck, even if I could afford a new Ferrari, I still wouldn't be able to race it hard.

Some look at certain bikes and cars as art, others look at them as tools. The Italian frames are art for me and the Taiwanese ones are a tool. Don't know if I can explain it any better than that. If I am spending the money for 2007 Record on this frame, I could have gone for Chorus and still bought the better frame for the same total amount on the total bike, or I could have just bought the better frame period and still bought the Record for it.

Then again, I'll have to wait until I ride this frame to see if it is actually that terrible as everybody thinks just because it is made in Taiwan. Just because it is cheaper and made in Taiwan doesn't mean it is terrible. I'll post my reviews on it when I finally get it built in a month or two.


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## tmluk (Sep 19, 2005)

Nice bike. Curious, what fork did it come with?

I share similar sentiment of my Italian bikes. My Merlin Road is my beater/commuting bike but I would be heart broken if my Master 15-yr old steel bike is trashed/stolen. :cryin: if it happens to my C50. All my bikes are insured (theft and collision) so $$$ is not the problem.

Nice grouppo on a beater bike. Enjoy your build. Love to see pics when you finish, especially the TT bike.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I figure that the Record Groupo can always go on another frame if I wreck this one, and I hurt less when a single component gets wrecked because it can always be replaced. The sentimental/soul part of a bike is the frame. The components just add to it. I don't share too much sentiment about components. Then again, I will not get rid of my 165 Super Record cranks from the 80's because they have way too much sentimental value. I can almost remember where every scratch and gouge came from.

I also figured that this frame might weigh a little more than my Cristallo, and I want to get it close to 16 pounds for racing, so the Record will help me get to that weight. Performance is probably increased just from the psychological effect of having a light bike and the fact that I will have less money (i.e., weight) in my wallet while riding.

Once I get these two bikes finished, I'll post a pic of all three.


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## j__h (Jun 16, 2006)

Ride-Fly said:


> Strada (with 105- even worse- blasphemy!) They both could be had for around $2000 with the coupon. I


Hey now, I'm putting 105 on my Dream just to annoy people.  

Actually I got an entire new 105 group for about ~$400. :thumbsup: I will be upgrading all sorts of stuff on the bike in the next couple years though. Carbon wheels, stronglight cranks already have me drooling.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I just got my Cinelli Ram bars in the mail and noticed the "Designed in Italy" phrase on it. So, I went to look at the Ram bars I have on my Cristallo and they say "Made in Italy" and they look a little nicer than the Taiwan version. When I hit the Italy version with a fingernail, it makes a thud, but when I hit the Taiwan version with a finger nail it makes a ting. Granted, the difference might be that one set is mounted on the bike with levers, tape, and all and the Taiwan version is just the bar.

Anyway, does Campagnolo make a groupo that is designed in Italy and made in Taiwan? That way, the entire bike can be designed in Italy and made in Taiwan.

Looks like the Italians are experiencing the same thing us Americans have already gone through. Jobs are going overseas because Americans and Italians no longer want to do the menial labor jobs such as manufacturing.


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## wasfast (Feb 3, 2004)

Working for a company that does lots of outsourcing. The issue isn't that Americans don't want to do the work, it's that the labor rate is significantly lower in various overseas companies. Now, engineering and design work are being sent out. Ultimately this is going to kill this country but no one seems interested in stopping it. 

Campagnolo makes everything in Italy to my knowledge. I love Campy stuff and have for 35 years.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

As Americans, we want way too much. That is why GM and Ford are struggling against these Asian car manufacturers. Those guys work for 50 cents an hour and they don't get health and retirement benefits. How can Ford and GM build a car that costs less? The only way they can compete is to build a better car, but that isn't the case.

Now, we are raising the minimum wage. That only gives employers more incentive to hire illegals. However, we are also cracking down on the hiring of illegals by making it possible for employers to confirm social security numbers online via the SSA website, there are stiff penalties for hiring illegals, and the IRS is doing a good job of matching reported seocial security numbers with the SSA records and requiring backup withholding for those that don't match. Granted, I have no idea how a person could live on $7.00 an hour because that translates to a little over $14,000 a year if they are working a 40 hour work week. This nation is a great nation, but we have a lot of serious issues, part of which is brought along by our insane need for consumption, which I am guilty of myself.

I did do some research on Campy, and it appears that they are still making everything in Italy. Who knows how long that is going to last. Five years ago Colnago swore he wouldn't be making bikes in Taiwan, now he has at least 3 models coming from Taiwan. What will be really sad is if this Arte turns out to be a good/great bike. Granted, it will be a good thing for me, but a sad day for Colnago.


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## mriddle (Nov 16, 2005)

*Made in Italy?*

I recently purchased a 2006 Record CT carbon crank from Colorado Cyclist. I had been wanting to upgrade my 2000 Record (alloy) to the new UT design. I wasn't sure about deviating from the standard 39/53. When the 2006 cranks dropped in price I figured I would try a CT for $350 and see how I liked it.

The first thing I noticed was that the carbon cranks are labeled "Made in Italy". The chainrings however did NOT have Campy's traditional "Made in Italy" engraving on them. Does this mean that Campy is sourcing some cheaper chainrings from China?

Do all the new UT cranks have the "Made in Italy" engraving on them?

As far as Cinelli Ram bar & stem combos, I recently asked Mike @ Maestro about a set and he informed me that he no longer offers the Ram due to so many failures. Any Ram users having problems? Failed bar/stem combo would not be good.


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## j__h (Jun 16, 2006)

fabsroman said:


> As Americans, we want way too much. That is why GM and Ford are struggling against these Asian car manufacturers. Those guys work for 50 cents an hour and they don't get health and retirement benefits. How can Ford and GM build a car that costs less? The only way they can compete is to build a better car, but that isn't the case.


Well that's part of it, but its hardly that simple. Tons of 'Asian' cars are made in America. GM and Ford are struggling because their quality went to crap back a couple decades ago, they negotiated unsustainable compensation packages with the UAW, they were more worried about short term stock gains then long term effects while making business decisions, and they were slow to move on introducing economy cars when gas prices hit the roof back a couple decade ago which allowed the Japanese automakers to gain a large share of the market. In a nut shell, the big three executives made some idiotic business decisions. 

On a side note, back before world war 2, Japanese products were considered, and basically were absolute crap. I always thought the stuff stamp "Made in Occupied Japan" was pretty interesting.

I expect Chinese manufactured cars to be absolute crap when they start sale those in the US. 

One final note before I shut up about this, doing manufacturing in China has is own major issues mainly with intellectual theft of designs. If you set up a manufacturing facility in china I guarantee in less than a year another factory will be making knock off of whatever product you are producing. Heck, if not watched, the factory you contract to might even be 'off the reservation' so to speak 

Enough about that though, back to talking only about colnagos.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I saw this new post in my e-mail, and it was kind of fortuitous because the Arte frame just arrived. I removed the headset cups and put a small knick in the frame. That will probably be the first of many. It also has a little nick in it where the Ernesto Colnago signature is, but I am fine with that too.

After removing the headset cups, I put the frame on a scale and it weighs 1,370 grams. That is just 70 grams more than my Cristallo. Here I was expecting it to weight a full pound, approximately 454 grams, more than my Cristallo and it is actually pretty close in weight. The fork for the Arte weighs in at 507 and the Cristallo's Star fork was at 499. So, in totality, the Arte with the exact same components as the Cristallo will only weigh 78 grams more than the Cristallo.

Now, the question is how does it ride. I'll post a report once I get it all built and the weather is a little nicer (i.e., it is snowing right now).


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

fabs, how many miles have you logged on the cristallo? what is your overall impression?


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

FB,

I have a little over 250 miles on the Cristallo at this time, which isn't much. My issue with riding right now is weather related since it was down in the single digits the other day and it is rarely getting above 30 here anymore.

So far, I love the bike. I have no idea how people can complain about the feel of a carbon fiber ride. To me, it feels great because I don't really feel anything. My teeth don't rattle on bumps and the bike doesn't sound like it is going to have parts come off when I hit a pothole. My ride length and speeds have increased, so that is a good thing too. I have a "mountain" around me that is about a 600 to 800 foot climb, and I love this bike on that climb. With the old steel bike I was out of the saddle for most of the climb, but that was probably because the gearing was a 42x18. With the 39x19 and 39x21 I can do almost the entire climb in the saddle and almost all of it in the 39x21 with a couple of touches in the 39x19. On the descent, the bike is insane. The first time I did it, I almost flew off the road because the steering was way quicker than on my old bike. I leaned the bike over for the turn and it was way too sharp. The bike seems to fly down the hill. I know I am getting down it a lot quicker than on the old bike and I can barely turn over the 53x11 before I have to make another switchback turn. With the 53x13 on the old bike it seemed like I could pedal forever before getting to the next switchback. I also have to concentrate on getting the pedals in the right spot for the turn before I get to it. Due to the speeds of the descents, I find myself having to get a lot more done in a much shorter time. It was a little bit scary the first time, but now it is really fun. All in all, I really like the frame. That is why I bought the Arte in the same exact geometry with the same rear triangle and that is why I bought the TT frame.

Once I get into the thousands of miles and I get some racing in on the Arte, I'll post another review. Reviews are sometimes too generous when something is brand new, and in my case the only thing I have to compare this bike to is my 20 year old steel frame that has downtube shifters and no indexed shifting. Indexed shifting is awesome and I really love the Campy Record, but I also loved the Campy Super Record from 1986 when I first bought. Still love it too.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

mriddle said:


> I recently purchased a 2006 Record CT carbon crank from Colorado Cyclist. I had been wanting to upgrade my 2000 Record (alloy) to the new UT design. I wasn't sure about deviating from the standard 39/53. When the 2006 cranks dropped in price I figured I would try a CT for $350 and see how I liked it.
> 
> The first thing I noticed was that the carbon cranks are labeled "Made in Italy". The chainrings however did NOT have Campy's traditional "Made in Italy" engraving on them. Does this mean that Campy is sourcing some cheaper chainrings from China?


Good catch! I just got a 2006 Record CT crank last week and didn't notice this. Yup, the rings on my crank also don't have any indication of source. Somebody posted last year complaining the 2007 rings he bought did not have the engravings. Well looks like this started in 2006.

I took a look at a vintage 2003 Record crank I've been saving (the first carbon fiber crank by Campy, handmade with unidirectional weave). The chainrings are more silver and are imprinted with 'Made in Italy'. Actually, the rings on the 2006 crank seem to have better production quality and a more uniform finish (probably due to shotpeening). For example, the imprint of text on the rings are more consistent and uniform from ring to ring.

So Pray Tell, have the price of Campy chainrings gone down? I mean I checked prices on replacement rings recently and I couldn't believe how much they cost - as much as $55!

More on this topic: there was a post a while back on this site or WeightWeenies, and it was mentioned that only Record components are 100% made in Italy (at least as of 2005). Some of the parts in Chorus (and lower) shifters and derailleurs are made in the Far East. There didn't seem to be much flaming or dispute about it.

That's why on my dream C50 build, I preferred 2004 Record parts. Fortunately, most of the stuff Performance was selling in 2006 were actually 2004 stock so I picked up some Record shifters. I had heard about the rings and could see the writing on the wall, so I also picked up a 2004 11-23 Ti cassette from Performance.

And now, the $500-600 Cinelli RAM bars are going this route??? :yikes: Ya learn a lot of things from this Colnago forum . . .


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