# Now its Europcar and Voeckler



## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Europcar denies involvement in illegal practices at 2011 Tour de France



> he French cycling team Europcar is downplaying a report that it is under investigation over allegations of improperly using transfusions during the 2011 Tour de France.
> 
> The website of the newspaper L’Equipe reported that a preliminary investigation was opened in August last year, a month after team leader Thomas Voeckler completed a stunning Tour campaign to finish fourth overall.
> 
> ...


Ad in the disastrous revelations about their best rider doping with EPO under their noses for_ years,_ and it not a good year for a few people. . . .


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Europcar's Bernaudeau Surprised To Hear About Doping Investigation | Cyclingnews.com

My favorite part (part of the constant Tommy V refrain):



> He concurred with the suggestion that the allegations and inquiry *may be the result of jealousy of the team's success over the past 18 months.* "If we hadn't done so well, we might not be here talking about this now. I would stress, though, that the health of our riders is our priority." He added that the Thursday before the day always tends to be the day when this kind of story emerges.


 [emphasis added for the lols]


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Coolhand said:


> Europcar's Bernaudeau Surprised To Hear About Doping Investigation | Cyclingnews.com
> 
> My favorite part (part of the constant Tommy V refrain):
> 
> [emphasis added for the lols]


how was the phrase again? 
oh yes
“I'm sorry for you, ... I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles.”


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## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

Just one time I just want a team to admit to it and say something like, 

_Screw it. That's right, we were doped out the a$$. Little Tommy V was literally freaking out between stages, we were doing all kinds of crap in the team bus - I mean most the stuff we were taking didn't even have a performance benefit. On one of the stages Tommy was tripping so bad he chased the lead group all by himself, the team director was shouting, "Tommy! Tommy get ahold of yourself! Pull back!" We were all just laughing, then the team started egging him on, "You've got this man, keep going... they're right around that corner up there". Tommy actually believed us, it was hysterical. I think I was on acid that stage. Wait a minute, wait.. are you saying Tommy *didn't* win the Tour? Oh my god... oh my god that's crazy. Those three weeks were just one big blur man_


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Wait a second. How can the guy who got 4th be dirty?


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

Local Hero said:


> Wait a second. How can the guy who got 4th be dirty?


As we were told many times french don't dope. Spaniards, italians, germans, americans, brits, russians - sure. But french never dope, that's why they don't win tours.

I must say, I wouldn't be too surprised. Tommy Voeckler and Pierre Rolland's performances were, let's just say, surprising.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

under close watch now and "knee issues" hmmm. . . .


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Coolhand said:


> under close watch now and "knee issues" hmmm. . . .


In the old days "Knee Issues" was code for Cortisone. People say that the French training programs are old fashioned.....it appears their doping programs are as well


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## Handbrake (May 29, 2012)

You could list the cyclists who aren't doped, but you obviously don't own a brush that narrow.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Handbrake said:


> You could list the cyclists who aren't doped, but you obviously don't own a brush that narrow.


Marco Penotti. Top 10 of the Giro. Clean. 

Don't be fooled by this mess. There are plenty of riders who do not dope


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

_There are plenty of riders who do not dope_

Of all the posts that you have made here; I hope that this statement is the truest one of them all. I don't know if I believe it anymore.


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## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

There is a bad pattern developing at Europcar. There are a bunch of whereabouts violations, unlawful vitamin injections, possible cortisone misuse. On one hand it is nice that we are talking about piddling minor stuff instead of EPO and blood doping, but on the other Tom V's extraordinary climbing performances last year were very surprising. 

Looking at Voeckler and, even worse, Wiggins, it is hard not to suspect that something is up, that this clean cycling revolution that everyone in the sport is pushing on the fans seems fishy. Being a cynic I cannot help myself from thinking that several riders decided that they might as well dope and win something big before the end of their careers.

When the ASO replaced Clerc, who was a hardline anti-doper, and ordered the staff of l'Equipe not to pursue doping stories, it might have been a signal for the French and everyone else to give up the fight. After the ASO and the UCI made up, McQuaid in a rather stupifying statement to the press assured everyone that there would not be positives at the Tour de France for years to come. French performances then trended up along with the results from the so-called clean teams. Maybe it is because the sport really is cleaning up, but color me suspicious.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Nice superhuman ride after a rest day.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

trailrunner68 said:


> There is a bad pattern developing at Europcar. There are a bunch of whereabouts violations, unlawful vitamin injections, possible cortisone misuse. On one hand it is nice that we are talking about piddling minor stuff instead of EPO and blood doping, but on the other Tom V's extraordinary climbing performances last year were very surprising.
> 
> Looking at Voeckler and, even worse, Wiggins, it is hard not to suspect that something is up, that this clean cycling revolution that everyone in the sport is pushing on the fans seems fishy. Being a cynic I cannot help myself from thinking that several riders decided that they might as well dope and win something big before the end of their careers.
> 
> When the ASO replaced Clerc, who was a hardline anti-doper, and ordered the staff of l'Equipe not to pursue doping stories, it might have been a signal for the French and everyone else to give up the fight. After the ASO and the UCI made up, McQuaid in a rather stupifying statement to the press assured everyone that there would not be positives at the Tour de France for years to come. French performances then trended up along with the results from the so-called clean teams. Maybe it is because the sport really is cleaning up, but color me suspicious.


A week ago, I would have called this post needlessly cynical. After McQuaid's pronouncement today that he didn't understand how Ferrari et al couldn't be banned because they weren't license holders, I have to start towards agreeing. 

I could be a Pollyanna and hope that McQuaid is simply an incompetent moron. rather than an outright fraud.


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## psycleridr (Jul 21, 2005)

cableguy said:


> just one time i just want a team to admit to it and say something like,
> 
> _screw it. That's right, we were doped out the a$$. Little tommy v was literally freaking out between stages, we were doing all kinds of crap in the team bus - i mean most the stuff we were taking didn't even have a performance benefit. On one of the stages tommy was tripping so bad he chased the lead group all by himself, the team director was shouting, "tommy! Tommy get ahold of yourself! Pull back!" we were all just laughing, then the team started egging him on, "you've got this man, keep going... They're right around that corner up there". Tommy actually believed us, it was hysterical. I think i was on acid that stage. Wait a minute, wait.. Are you saying tommy *didn't* win the tour? Oh my god... Oh my god that's crazy. Those three weeks were just one big blur man_


like! :thumbup:


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

two in a row, and driving good riders off the back of the break- some team had a nice rest day. . .


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## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

It is interesting that the French are getting caught out for quack medicine instead of serious doping products. Injecting vitamins? Ozone in the blood? It's like a bunch of Cat 4's using crap they can find at a convenience store before a race.

What it means, I don't know.

There are some eyebrow raising performances this Tour. It seems like the sport has gone backwards and maybe taken the French with it.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Cableguy said:


> Just one time I just want a team to admit to it and say something like,
> 
> _Screw it. That's right, we were doped out the a$$. Little Tommy V was literally freaking out between stages, we were doing all kinds of crap in the team bus - I mean most the stuff we were taking didn't even have a performance benefit. On one of the stages Tommy was tripping so bad he chased the lead group all by himself, the team director was shouting, "Tommy! Tommy get ahold of yourself! Pull back!" We were all just laughing, then the team started egging him on, "You've got this man, keep going... they're right around that corner up there". Tommy actually believed us, it was hysterical. I think I was on acid that stage. Wait a minute, wait.. are you saying Tommy *didn't* win the Tour? Oh my god... oh my god that's crazy. Those three weeks were just one big blur man_



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Doping Forum poast of the week  !


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

danl1 said:


> A week ago, I would have called this post needlessly cynical. After McQuaid's pronouncement today that he didn't understand how Ferrari et al couldn't be banned because they weren't license holders, I have to start towards agreeing.
> 
> I could be a Pollyanna and hope that McQuaid is simply an incompetent moron. rather than an outright fraud.


Incompetent moron is a good possibility

inrng : uci president mistaken over usada case


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

5 hour energy


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## NextTime (Oct 13, 2007)

Well, it can't be Red Bull - I think it's illegal in France.


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## RRRoubaix (Aug 27, 2008)

trailrunner68 said:


> It is interesting that the French are getting caught out for quack medicine instead of serious doping products. Injecting vitamins? Ozone in the blood? It's like a bunch of Cat 4's using crap they can find at a convenience store before a race...


S#*t! How did you find me out? And how dare you impugn my new doping regimen!
:lol:
Next week- smoking toothpaste laced with Nyquil! (Hey, why not?)


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

after watching Voeckler et al I think that Europcar might be french for Gerolsteiner


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Another rest day, another "supernatural" Doping Tommy V performance. 

"Tommy make those crazy faces as you ride people off your wheel despite you being in your 4th break already- that should fool them"

I guess if you sell French newspapers you can run high octane all you want. Although him winning the polka dots would follow the pattern of another beloved (and doped to the gills) French doper the French system _magically_ could never catch.


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## mdaugherty (Mar 8, 2008)

Coolhand said:


> Another rest day, another "supernatural" Doping Tommy V performance.
> 
> "Tommy make those crazy faces as you ride people off your wheel despite you being in your 4th break already- that should fool them"
> 
> I guess if you sell French newspapers you can run high octane all you want. Although him winning the polka dots would follow the pattern of another beloved (and doped to the gills) French doper the French system _magically_ could never catch.


It is suspiciously amazing! I have always wondered what a tour would look like with PED free riders. There is always the dark cloud following these guys around and for good reasons. Then I wonder, how far down into the competitive levels of local racing are PEDs influencing the outcomes.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Watching him on the Tormalet is a joke. Love to know what Europcar is taking on those rest days.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

I'm sorry for you...I'm sorry that you do not believe in miraculous rest days.


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## EuroSVT (Sep 15, 2011)

Coolhand said:


> Watching him on the Tormalet is a joke. Love to know what Europcar is taking on those rest days.


Not going to get into it over Voeckler, but his riding during the rest of the Tour, and his two post-rest day victories, on a team already under suspicion...

It has to be the bike!


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## Rundfahrt (Jul 16, 2012)

I thought we have heard for years how the French are clean. The peloton at two speeds.


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## Ejdo (Mar 14, 2010)

Cableguy said:


> Just one time I just want a team to admit to it and say something like,
> 
> _Screw it. That's right, we were doped out the a$$. Little Tommy V was literally freaking out between stages, we were doing all kinds of crap in the team bus - I mean most the stuff we were taking didn't even have a performance benefit. On one of the stages Tommy was tripping so bad he chased the lead group all by himself, the team director was shouting, "Tommy! Tommy get ahold of yourself! Pull back!" We were all just laughing, then the team started egging him on, "You've got this man, keep going... they're right around that corner up there". Tommy actually believed us, it was hysterical. I think I was on acid that stage. Wait a minute, wait.. are you saying Tommy *didn't* win the Tour? Oh my god... oh my god that's crazy. Those three weeks were just one big blur man_


This had me laughing so hard my abs hurt


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## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

Rundfahrt said:


> I thought we have heard for years how the French are clean. The peloton at two speeds.


That was several years ago. Undoubtedly true. The French were a joke. They could not win anything outside of a parking lot crit. Nowadays Voeckler, an escape artist with limited talent, even at escaping, can keep up with the best climbers in the sport; Wiggins went from the autobus in climbing stages to the second best climber in cycling and can out timetrial Cancellara, despite never winning a long time trial before two weeks ago; Froome, well, who the hell knows where Froome came from--Mars perhaps; and Rogers, a client of Dr. Ferrari and part of the T-Mobile blood doping program, says he is putting out more power than ever before. Still, we are assured that cycling has cleaned itself up, a message which does not seem to have reached Frank Schleck, so I am sure there is a perfectly innocent explanation for what we are seeing.


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

trailrunner68 said:


> That was several years ago. Undoubtedly true. The French were a joke. They could not win anything outside of a parking lot crit. Nowadays Voeckler, an escape artist with limited talent, even at escaping, can keep up with the best climbers in the sport; Wiggins went from the autobus in climbing stages to the second best climber in cycling and can out timetrial Cancellara, despite never winning a long time trial before two weeks ago; Froome, well, who the hell knows where Froome came from--Mars perhaps; and Rogers, a client of Dr. Ferrari and part of the T-Mobile blood doping program, says he is putting out more power than ever before. Still, we are assured that cycling has cleaned itself up, a message which does not seem to have reached Frank Schleck, so I am sure there is a perfectly innocent explanation for what we are seeing.


Lets not forget one Cofidis rider, RSNT with Hincapie apparently testifying against LA in exchange for reductions in his own doping ban and a banned-from-attending DS plus Zabriskie, Leipheimer and the other Lance testifiers

Since Voekler is under investigation maybe he decided to go all in


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## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

roddjbrown said:


> Lets not forget one Cofidis rider, RSNT with Hincapie apparently testifying against LA in exchange for reductions in his own doping ban and a banned-from-attending DS plus Zabriskie, Leipheimer and the other Lance testifiers
> 
> Since Voekler is under investigation maybe he decided to go all in


Not everything is about Armstrong. Hincapie does not ride for RSNT, never did. Bruyneel is acting as a manager under a consulting contract. Several riders allegedly testifying about conduct of years ago have little to do with the present or the French riders' newfound ability to cowboy up during races.


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

trailrunner68 said:


> Not everything is about Armstrong. Hincapie does not ride for RSNT, never did. Bruyneel is acting as a manager under a consulting contract. Several riders allegedly testifying about conduct of years ago have little to do with the present or the French riders' newfound ability to cowboy up during races.


Apologies, obviously forgot to put in BMC. 

Are you aware of the period they're admitting to? I'm not and they're all staying quiet. My point was the doping instances/cases ongoing throughout the peloton


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

we have like 3-4 threads on RS and Armstrong- can we keep this one on the absurdly doped up Europcar squad.


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

Coolhand said:


> we have like 3-4 threads on RS and Armstrong- can we keep this one on the absurdly doped up Europcar squad.


Agreed. As we also do with Sky.

Back to Thomas, he said in his interview on itv4 that when he retires he will remember the stage wins more than wearing the jersey. Do they ever strip stage wins? I'm just asking as for many riders that's what a career is based on.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Coolhand said:


> we have like 3-4 threads on RS and Armstrong- can we keep this one on the absurdly doped up Europcar squad.



Do you think the dope-bomb/bust/posi will drop on Eurocar _this season_?


Enough for them to surrender (Sorry; couldn't help it!)?!


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

Voekler's second win in Luchon (stage 15, 2010). Same m.o. long breakaway and final w/Voekler dropping everyone. 7 stages after the preceeding rest day. Explanation? Knock yourselves out!


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Tommy V in the break again! 

Might as well ride with a giant needle sticking out of his butt. Interesting how the French anti-doping folks can't seem to catch anyone who makes ASO money. . .


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Coolhand said:


> Tommy V in the break again!
> 
> Might as well ride with a giant needle sticking out of his butt. Interesting how the French anti-doping folks can't seem to catch anyone who makes ASO money. . .


funny how you don't pick on all the other riders that were also in yesterdays break. no personal bias here, oh no.


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## Ejdo (Mar 14, 2010)

Coolhand said:


> Tommy V in the break again!
> 
> Might as well ride with a giant needle sticking out of his butt. Interesting how the French anti-doping folks can't seem to catch anyone who makes ASO money. . .


Didn't he have bad tendonitis in his knee just a few weeks ago? I can tell you from experience that doesn't just go away without "something." Whatever he's taking I want some.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

What drug makes tendinitis go away? A cortisone shot? 

Damn, if that's what he's guilty of, I'll give him a pass. Not to be an apologist, but I had pretty bad ITBS during undergrad (I was a cross country runner). It was awful. A sports doc gave me a shot in the IT band. I don't remember any performance benefit but the pain went away. 

If someone is in pain like I was in pain, it's inhumane to withhold treatment.


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

Coolhand said:


> Watching him on the Tormalet is a joke. Love to know what Europcar is taking on those rest days.


There is admitedly the remote possibility that some riders, Europcar included, are actually resting on the rest days.... what a concept?!


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

philippec said:


> There is admitedly the remote possibility that some riders, Europcar included, are actually resting on the rest days.... what a concept?!


Sure, and the other teams and riders are partying all night at the local disco's. 

If this were a Spanish rider, the media would be howling. They were already under suspicion for doping and Tommy V has had a series of supernatural performances after rest days. And has gone into multiple long breaks were he has been riding pure climbers off his wheel each time. Given that they managed to miss all the EPO doping (and the whereabouts violations) the extremely popular female pro did over a long period of time- I am not sure the French system is any better than the Italian or Spanish systems. Wait- those systems actually seem to catch a few popular riders. . .

philippec yes French riders dope too. But apparently only your police catch them.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

den bakker said:


> funny how you don't pick on all the other riders that were also in yesterdays break. no personal bias here, oh no.


In a thread about *Europcar*? The only bias shown is yours.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

roddjbrown said:


> Agreed. As we also do with Sky.
> 
> Back to Thomas, he said in his interview on itv4 that when he retires he will remember the stage wins more than wearing the jersey. Do they ever strip stage wins? I'm just asking as for many riders that's what a career is based on.


I believe they do. Can someone confirm please?


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Coolhand said:


> In a thread about *Europcar*? The only bias shown is yours.


right. discuss his riding in a vacuum with no reference to the riders around him. have fun :thumbsup:


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

Coolhand said:


> Sure, and the other teams and riders are partying all night at the local disco's.


I bet Kessiakoff is regretting those Tuesday Jagerbombs now.


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

Coolhand said:


> Sure, and the other teams and riders are partying all night at the local disco's.
> 
> If this were a Spanish rider, the media would be howling. They were already under suspicion for doping and Tommy V has had a series of supernatural performances after rest days. And has gone into multiple long breaks were he has been riding pure climbers off his wheel each time. Given that they managed to miss all the EPO doping (and the whereabouts violations) the extremely popular female pro did over a long period of time- I am not sure the French system is any better than the Italian or Spanish systems. Wait- those systems actually seem to catch a few popular riders. . .
> 
> philippec yes French riders dope too. But apparently only your police catch them.


Sorenson, a rider on another team, seems pretty rested? No? There is nothing implausible with riders resting on rest days though you seem to be suggesting otherwise. And yes French riders dope, I am not suggesting the contrary.

Re. catching popular riders -- are you implying that Virenque, strike that -- the *entire* Festina squad was not popular when they where nailed. I hope not because that that would have me searching for another explanation for the number of Festina jerseys I still see riders wearing here....


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

philippec said:


> I hope not because that that would have me searching for another explanation for the number of Festina jerseys I still see riders wearing here....


maybe it's a Euro ironic thing


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## cbarne12 (Sep 8, 2011)

We have to admit one thing in all of this.....this is a brutal (physically, psychologically) sport...And I am continually amazed at the performance level of these athletes at all times. I for one am not surprised at anyone who is doping PEDs, just from the stand point of trying not to get dropped. I don't agree with it, but I see how they would gravitate towards this. I mean, how much pain can one endure day in and day out just on the training rides/regimen? FWIW.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

cbarne12 said:


> We have to admit one thing in all of this.....this is a brutal (physically, psychologically) sport...And I am continually amazed at the performance level of these athletes at all times. I for one am not surprised at anyone who is doping PEDs, just from the stand point of trying not to get dropped. I don't agree with it, but I see how they would gravitate towards this. I mean, how much pain can one endure day in and day out just on the training rides/regimen? FWIW.


I live on the California coast. Every day I see cycle tourists ride past my home on their way down the West Coast. Seattle to San Diego is popular, as is San Francisco to San Diego. 

I've talked to many of them at the cafe and bike shop. Many average 80-100 miles / day. Some are young, some are old, some are fat, some slim, many have relatively unimpressive physiques. Yet they ride (at a leisurely pace) all day for weeks. 

It's all relative. 

Men can race hard for three weeks with or without drugs. 


We expect improvement (decrease in times) over the years, as equipment and training improves. Now if we look at the climb times for certain mountains in the tour, we can see that they were significantly lower during certain eras, say from 1996-2006, and the times have gone up (riders are slowly) in more recent years.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

^totally off topic. 

Back to* Europcar*. 

Are they even a real full fledged UCI team? Or are they a team that was invited by the frogs to represent France?


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## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

Local Hero said:


> ^totally off topic.
> 
> Back to* Europcar*.
> 
> Are they even a real full fledged UCI team?


They're a Pro Continental team as opposed to a ProTeam that competes in the ProTour. One of four wildcards.
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/11556/Tour-de-France-announces-four-wildcards-for-2012-race.aspx


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

4th place? Couldn't afford the good dope?


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

David Loving said:


> 4th place? Couldn't afford the good dope?


After riding everyone off his wheel on the climbs that mattered he sat up.


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## wiz525 (Dec 31, 2007)

I'm with Coolhand on this one. This is just comical at this point.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

nate said:


> They're a Pro Continental team as opposed to a ProTeam that competes in the ProTour. One of four wildcards.
> http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/11556/Tour-de-France-announces-four-wildcards-for-2012-race.aspx





David Loving said:


> 4th place? Couldn't afford the good dope?





Coolhand said:


> After riding everyone off his wheel on the climbs that mattered he sat up.



Forgot he's on a Pro Continental team and not a Pro Tour team.


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

Local Hero said:


> ^totally off topic.
> 
> Back to* Europcar*.
> 
> Are they even a real full fledged UCI team? Or are they a team that was invited by the frogs to represent France?


They are a Pro Continental team - just like several other teams competing in National Tours and other UCI events -- including some teams from AmeriKKKa.... oops, sorry - was that offensive?


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## wiz525 (Dec 31, 2007)

philippec said:


> They are a Pro Continental team - just like several other teams competing in National Tours and other UCI events -- including some teams from AmeriKKKa.... oops, sorry - was that offensive?


Philip- what's your take on them? from previous posts, i'm pretty certain you live in France and race there. what's the sentiment?? personally and locally?


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

philippec said:


> They are a Pro Continental team - just like several other teams competing in National Tours and other UCI events -- including some teams from AmeriKKKa.... oops, sorry - was that offensive?



Not at all, unless you're referring to us as a racist nation.


Then.....


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Moderators Note*



philippec said:


> They are a Pro Continental team - just like several other teams competing in National Tours and other UCI events -- including some teams from AmeriKKKa.... oops, sorry - was that offensive?


Yes. If you want to engage in political trollery, go to Politics Only. 

And take this with you:

History of far-right movements in France - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
National Front (France) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

/back on topic


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## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

Coolhand said:


> Yes. If you want to engage in political trollery, go to Politics Only.
> 
> And take this with you:
> 
> ...


He gets a warning but Local Hero doesn't? Why do you think Philippe responded that way?


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

nate said:


> He gets a warning but Local Hero doesn't? Why do you think Philippe responded that way?


Why would I need a warning? 

Was it "frogs"? If so, sorry. (Sorry Philippe!) I didn't think anyone was seriously offended by that. I just looked it up and it does not have racist or truly offensive origins. Why are french people called frogs
And for the record, my Mom's dad was French Canadian. 

If it was something else, let me know. I'm here for a lively discussion, debate and to have fun. I'm not trying to break any rules.

Anyway, sorry. Let's get this thread back on track.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

ok back on track then:



> The general consensus amongst the riders was that today was the toughest day they'd faced. Kessiakoff said he was going back to his hotel to try to recover and ready himself for one final uphill push in the mountains of the Pyrenees tomorrow. Whether it would be enough to overtake Voeckler and snatch back the jersey, he said, would depend on that recovery and also on how much the Frenchman's superhuman efforts today have taken out of him.


Video: Kessiakoff Left Stunned By "superb" Voeckler | Cyclingnews.com

cough, "superhuman" enjoy the code/subtext


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Coolhand said:


> ok back on track then:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I wonder if that was passive aggressive, semi-narking  ?!!


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

"supernatural" and "superhuman" often are code for "doped to the gills, even for our sport".


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## Kestreljr (Jan 10, 2007)

You can be old, and stocky, and ride in the Tour...but you can't be KOM and crush the 25 yr olds who weigh 30lbs less than you.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Coolhand said:


> "supernatural" and "superhuman" often are code for "doped to the gills, even for our sport".



I have a short memory; Is this Tour any more suspicious of doping than the last several Tours?


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Looks like it will be dropped

No Charges Expected In Team Europcar Investigation | Cyclingnews.com


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

File under "obviously"

" A source close to the investigators described the questioning of the riders as 'fruitless'."


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## davidka (Dec 12, 2001)

Coolhand said:


> File under "obviously"
> 
> " A source close to the investigators described the questioning of the riders as 'fruitless'."


ie. they said "No".


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

This is all Armstrong's fault, you know.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Moderators Note*



spade2you said:


> This is all Armstrong's fault, you know.


Enough- make you own thread if you want to keep beating that horse. This is about Supernatural Tommy D dodging the world's easiest bullet to avoid. I am sure Richard V approves. . .


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Coolhand said:


> *Enough- make you own thread if you want to keep beating that horse. *This is about Supernatural Tommy D dodging the world's easiest bullet to avoid.


Too much competition. ....hang a bell. Tommy D or Tommy V? 



Coolhand said:


> I am sure Richard V approves. . .


(evil chuckle, followed by evil villain laugh)


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