# recommend me a tubular tire size



## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

I'm about to become a first-time, tubular tire user, and would appreciate some inputs on size. 

Intended use would be primarily crit & road racing, and the occasional hammerfest group ride. Wheels would be Zipp 404. I weigh 162-164 lbs.

Choice is between 21 and 23mm size in the Vittoria Corsa Evo CX.

According to measurements at http://biketechreview.com/tires/rolling-resistance/475-roller-data , the actual tubular widths are identical to the nominal widths.

For comparison, my everyday and race tire now, is the 700x23 Vittoria Open Corsa clincher : actual width = 24mm.

It seems plausible to pick the tubular closest in width to my clinchers, ie the 23mm tubular. And, the 23mm tubular tests out slightly lower rolling resistance (but they were tested at same pressure, which may not be realistic). 
But, the 21mm tubulars seem more common.

For the intended use -- crit & road racing -- would the 21 or 23mm tubies be a better choice, and why?

TIA.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

i'd get the 23's. i weigh the same as you and won't ride anything smaller. if you run the smaller tire at a 'comfortable' pressure, there is greater chance of damaging a rim due to the smaller air volume. you stand a much better chance of not damaging a rim w/ slightly more air volume. i'd run around 95frt/100rr for pressure.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

A 21mm tubular is the equivalent of a 23mm clincher in air volume above the rim. That's why they're the most common.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

and that's why i'm recommending the 23's...you can run them at lower pressure w/ no worry of pinch flats, and get great ride and traction.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

cxwrench said:


> and that's why i'm recommending the 23's...you can run them at lower pressure w/ no worry of pinch flats, and get great ride and traction.


Tubulars don't pinch flat.


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

Continental tubulars are 22 mm. Both the GP 4000 and the Sprinter are good choices.


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## BeeCharmer (Apr 30, 2003)

*Hmm...*



bigbill said:


> Tubulars don't pinch flat.


I pinch flatted my 23mm Conti Comp rear tire doing sprints on my rollers. It can be done, but it take some effort.


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## jwp3476 (Jun 22, 2010)

bigbill said:


> Tubulars don't pinch flat.


Actually they do pinch flat but you have to be running reasonably low pressure and hit a good pot hole.


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

jwp3476 said:


> Actually they do pinch flat but you have to be running reasonably low pressure and hit a good pot hole.


The OP wanted advice on tubulars for road racing, crits, and occassional hammerfests. Why would you run low pressure for any of those rides?


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## jwp3476 (Jun 22, 2010)

bigbill said:


> The OP wanted advice on tubulars for road racing, crits, and occassional hammerfests. Why would you run low pressure for any of those rides?


Better traction
Less vibration to tax the legs


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## bigbill (Feb 15, 2005)

jwp3476 said:


> Better traction
> Less vibration to tax the legs


Tubulars are designed for certain pressure ranges to present a certain profile on the road. I've run tubulars from 130 to 200 psi and never had a problem with traction. Running low pressure on a racing tire is a good way to roll it.


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## AM999 (Jan 22, 2007)

tom_h said:


> I'm about to become a first-time, tubular tire user, and would appreciate some inputs on size.
> 
> Intended use would be primarily crit & road racing, and the occasional hammerfest group ride. Wheels would be Zipp 404. I weigh 162-164 lbs.
> 
> ...


I'd recommend the 23's for mass start racing unless you might be a break away specialist - if so a 21 on the front might give an aero advantage although this would be offset by the increased Crr. The two 23's I tested were ~ 22.5 mm and the two 21's were ~ 21.5 mm so really not much difference in size.

On a decent road surface a pressure of ~ 120 psig should be fine - too high and you will start to "bounce" and the effective Crr will actually start to increase with pressure.

Don't skimp on the glue for both safety and optimum rolling resistance.

Good luck


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Unless you plan on gaining 50 pounds, go with the 21.5.

I don't know anybody that races on a 23. (unless there is a gravel section on the road race.......If that is the case, use a wheel with Conti's glued on)

In order to "pinch flat" a sew up, you have to hit a massive hole that bottoms out the tire, so bad, it crushes the tube. (it's never happened to me, but I guess that it is possible..........If you hit that hard, the rim will probably be toast, also)


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

bigbill said:


> Tubulars are designed for certain pressure ranges to present a certain profile on the road. I've run tubulars from 130 to 200 psi and never had a problem with traction. Running low pressure on a racing tire is a good way to roll it.


i think you've fallen behind on subject of tire pressure. i'm not talking about 50psi on a road tire. i'm talking about the difference between 130 (rough ride, increased rolling resistance, lower traction) and 95-105 ( the opposite). i wouldn't even run anywhere near 200psi at ADT unless i was doing a pursuit. period. on the road, i never get over 105. 
i don't know you, but i'm willing to bet i've glued more tubulars than you, never had one roll. i've also got a small amount of experience at various levels of the bike racing thing, as well. i know you have your personal experience w/ high tire pressure, but i'm telling you lower is better.


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## WheresWaldo (Nov 29, 2005)

ewitz said:


> Continental tubulars are 22 mm. Both the GP 4000 and the Sprinter are good choices.


I use both Sprinters and Competitions and I can tell you for a fact that even though Continental lists them as 22's they all run about 23-24 once installed and inflated. I think they must measure their tires on the inside of the casing.

Vittoria and Veloflex as I recall (haven't used one in a while) were closer to the stated sizing.


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## AM999 (Jan 22, 2007)

WheresWaldo said:


> I use both Sprinters and Competitions and I can tell you for a fact that even though Continental lists them as 22's they all run about 23-24 once installed and inflated. I think they must measure their tires on the inside of the casing.
> 
> Vittoria and Veloflex as I recall (haven't used one in a while) were closer to the stated sizing.


Did you measure the Conti's after a few miles on them ?? My experience with Continental tubulars (limited to gluing on and testing Crr) has been that they are undersized a bit (also a severe PITA to install).


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## AM999 (Jan 22, 2007)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> Unless you plan on gaining 50 pounds, go with the 21.5.
> 
> I don't know anybody that races on a 23. (unless there is a gravel section on the road race.......If that is the case, use a wheel with Conti's glued on)
> 
> In order to "pinch flat" a sew up, you have to hit a massive hole that bottoms out the tire, so bad, it crushes the tube. (it's never happened to me, but I guess that it is possible..........If you hit that hard, the rim will probably be toast, also)


Curious - why do you recommend the more narrow tire ??


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## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

I don't think you can go wrong with any of the name brands of tubulars. 

Zipp is marketing their rims to be used with 23c tires, so mebbe you should try that first?

M


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## jwp3476 (Jun 22, 2010)

AM999 said:


> Did you measure the Conti's after a few miles on them ?? My experience with Continental tubulars (limited to gluing on and testing Crr) has been that they are undersized a bit (also a severe PITA to install).


I just measured 6 Conti Sprinters that were from 21.9 to 22.9 mm. All but one have at least 1,000 miles on them.


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## AM999 (Jan 22, 2007)

jwp3476 said:


> I just measured 6 Conti Sprinters that were from 21.9 to 22.9 mm. All but one have at least 1,000 miles on them.


Thanks - those are a size 22 IIRC ??


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## jwp3476 (Jun 22, 2010)

Yes, all of my Conti Sprinters are marked 22mm.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

*opting for 23 mm*

Thanks for all the inputs.

I've decided to go with the nominal 23mm width, in the Vittoria Corsa Evo CX tubulars.

My present 700x23 Open Corsa clinchers measure 24.0-24.5 mm width ... seemed "lower risk" to go with the tubular size that is similar, especially since I'm a new tubie user.

As I get more experience racing and riding on tubulars, I may experiment with the 21 mm size.


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## wfo (Dec 3, 2010)

Ok, while we're at it. 

I prefer the ride of 700x25 Conti 4000S but now am stoked about my venture into using Tubies with a purchase of some sweet Mavic Cosmic Carnone Ultimates. 

What tubular tire size reccomendation to get close to my road size? I'm 175lbs. 

Much appreciate your opinions, O'Great Ones.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

23-25mm

and o'great ones would be irish greats. you mean 'oh great ones'...


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## wfo (Dec 3, 2010)

Thanks.

]Just read a May 2012 VeloNews/ Lennard Zinn story in which they reported the trend for many of the Pro teams nowadays is moving towards 700x25 tubular for this sizes greater comfort and cornering capabilities along with lower pressures/ 116psi making it a faster tire. Teams currently using them on smooth surface and not just the cobbles as one might think are: Garmin, Saxo-Bank, Rabobank, Orica Green-Edge. I think we'll be seeing more manufacturers getting in on this size as well. Check out the article while you're at it.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

make sure you stretch the sh*t outta those tires before you mount them. before glue(to make sure they hole air properly) and after glue(so you can get them on the rims)...the conti tubulars are tight.


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## JimP (Dec 18, 2001)

+1 on stretching before AND after gluing. The stretching after gluing made all the difference for me with the 25 mm Conti Comp.


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## wfo (Dec 3, 2010)

Absolutely correct on the stretching. Zipp's got great Youtube demo of the whole tubie mounting process.three applications of glue using a narrow brush each application separated by a 24hr drying period, with the third and final application only a 5 min wait before applying the tubular which has already had it's own application and a 24 hr dying period after the 2nd app of the wheel. 

Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. 

Can't wait to get this going and feel the sweet ride of Tubies.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

re-stretch the tire after the glue applied to it has dried for 4-6hrs. i've got a couple of old carbon clincher rims w/ gaffer's tape wrapped around them that i use for stretching tubulars. stretch the tires/make sure they hold air. if they don't, you can send them back as long as they don't have any glue on them. then apply your layers of glue, and let dry. then re-stretch, only removing from the 'stretching' rim when you're ready to mount them on the wheel.
the re-stretching process is less important w/ track tires and really supple road tires, more important w/ bulkier tires, cx tires, and...most anything from continental!


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## martinot (Aug 14, 2009)

I am not sure there is a single answer for the preferred width. Narrower on rims like ZIPP 404 FC will be more aero and lighter. Wider supposedly will have less rolling resistance. Conti makes it easy on Sprinter and Comp Attack/Force - one size option only. Same with Veloflex. Vitto, Schwalbe, Michelin, and Conti Comp have different size so you need to pick one. Will it make that much of a diff? I am not 100% sure. But you can think about pros/cons, pluses/minuses, ... for ages. Why not to make it easy and go for one of the best - Veloflex Carbon or Extreme. If you'll look for a hole in whatever you buy you'll always find it. Or you can just enjoy it.


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