# Leogrande Banned 8 Years



## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

I guess I just don't get this. Why is any masters or amateur racer doping? You don't have the same sort of financial windfall enticing you that the pros do in that riding your way into millions of dollars isn't a possibility. So, why risk your health and throw away something you are doing for enjoyment and fitness? The pros are dumb for doing it too, but I can't even begin to understand the amateur and masters dopers. 

Former Rock Racing rider Leogrande banned for second doping case | Cyclingnews.com


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

They should eliminate the Masters category all together.

Make them race with the rest.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

MMsRepBike said:


> They should eliminate the Masters category all together.
> 
> Make them race with the rest.


I am fine either way with that, but I still don't get amateur doping regardless of age.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

Rashadabd said:


> I guess I just don't get this. Why is any masters or amateur racer doping? You don't have the same sort of financial windfall enticing you that the pros do in that riding your way into millions of dollars isn't a possibility. So, why risk your health and throw away something you are doing for enjoyment and fitness? The pros are dumb for doing it too, but I can't even begin to understand the amateur and masters dopers.
> 
> Former Rock Racing rider Leogrande banned for second doping case | Cyclingnews.com


I'm actually not the least bit surprised and it actually amazes me when people present the opinion that you have. I'm not surprised at all by the power of the human ego. They're doping, because they want to win, their ego wants the win... its not about money at all. They want people to look at them and think they're the best. yes, people ride bikes for enjoyment and fitness, but racing bikes is another thing all together. If you're racing, you're doing so because you want to compete, to compare yourself to others. It has nothing to do with money. I also know how much I train and how much work I put in... and in reality, I'm nothing special. So if I've had to invest this much time to be at this level then I can imagine how someone who is a Cat 1 or Cat 2 and invested the time and effort to be at that level but isn't the best, that could be a big blow to the ego and could easily push a weak person to do illegal things.

As for risking health, I see people do way worse things for their health every single day, with much less reward in return, so that doesn't really surprise me either. 

and I'm in no way suggesting that doping is ok... its stupid. I'd never do it, but in general I think there are a lot of pretty rotten people and the human ego is a powerful thing.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

TricrossRich said:


> I'm actually not the least bit surprised and it actually amazes me when people present the opinion that you have. I'm not surprised at all by the power of the human ego. They're doping, because they want to win, their ego wants the win... its not about money at all. They want people to look at them and think they're the best. yes, people ride bikes for enjoyment and fitness, but racing bikes is another thing all together. If you're racing, you're doing so because you want to compete, to compare yourself to others. It has nothing to do with money. I also know how much I train and how much work I put in... and in reality, I'm nothing special. So if I've had to invest this much time to be at this level then I can imagine how someone who is a Cat 1 or Cat 2 and invested the time and effort to be at that level but isn't the best, that could be a big blow to the ego and could easily push a weak person to do illegal things.
> 
> As for risking health, I see people do way worse things for their health every single day, with much less reward in return, so that doesn't really surprise me either.
> 
> and I'm in no way suggesting that doping is ok... its stupid. I'd never do it, but in general I think there are a lot of pretty rotten people and the human ego is a powerful thing.


I have pretty much been a competitive athlete my whole life and been pretty average to decent in almost every sport. I like winning a lot, but doping my way to victory has never crossed my mind, even when I was a kid. There are lots of folks from all sorts of backgrounds competing in everything from running to Jiu Jitsu that put in as much time as anyone and yet doing something like this never crosses their minds either. I can promise you that. They don't want to win any less than anybody else, it's just they don't consider cheating to be a legitimate road to get there. For them, it would pretty much defeat the purpose of it all. Moreover, they certainly wouldn't put something that isn't even approved for human consumption into their bodies to move up a handful of places because health and fitness is part of why they do what they do. People that don't see it that way just seem a bit obsessed and strange to me, but different strokes for different folks I guess. I don't get the thought process is all I am saying.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

Rashadabd said:


> I have pretty much been a competitive athlete my whole life and been pretty average to decent in almost every sport. I like winning a lot, but doping my way to victory has never crossed my mind, even when I was a kid. There are lots of folks from all sorts of backgrounds competing in everything from running to Jiu Jitsu that put in as much time as anyone and yet doing something like this never crosses their minds either. I can promise you that. They don't want to win any less than anybody else, it's just they don't consider cheating to be a legitimate road to get there. For them, it would pretty much defeat the purpose of it all. Moreover, they certainly wouldn't put something that isn't even approved for human consumption into their bodies to move up a handful of places because health and fitness is part of why they do what they do. People that don't see it that way just seem a bit obsessed and strange to me, but different strokes for different folks I guess. I don't get the thought process is all I am saying.


I think you're mistaking what I am saying... I'm not saying that someone has to dope to be the best or that everyone that is competitive will dope. The point I'm trying to make is that there are morally corrupt, weak, unscrupulous, willing to do whatever it takes, willing to stab people in the back individuals in all walks of life, so it doesn't surprise me that there are some in sports.... whether they're doing it for money or just the 5 minutes of fame of being the Cat 3 state champion. Its a character flaw and humans have flaws.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

TricrossRich said:


> I think you're mistaking what I am saying... I'm not saying that someone has to dope to be the best or that everyone that is competitive will dope. The point I'm trying to make is that there are morally corrupt, weak, unscrupulous, willing to do whatever it takes, willing to stab people in the back individuals in all walks of life, so it doesn't surprise me that there are some in sports.... whether they're doing it for money or just the 5 minutes of fame of being the Cat 3 state champion. Its a character flaw and humans have flaws.


I get that, the numbers of people doing it in amateur cycling just surprises me I guess.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

and this guy was using stuff that hasn't even done human testing yet

to Guinea Pig yourself for bragging rights

I'm competitive as hell, this guy has a serious problem


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Rashadabd said:


> I am fine either way with that, but I still don't get amateur doping regardless of age.


We had one locally here: UNL professor arrested for steroid possession, distribution


University prof. By all reports a guy who did right by his students, in his spare hours was a body builder and competed...helped a ton of kids eat and be healthier...but he himself was using and dealing steroids. It just boggles the mind, especially knowing what that stuff does to the body long term. And he was an academic.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

atpjunkie said:


> and this guy was using stuff that hasn't even done human testing yet
> 
> to Guinea Pig yourself for bragging rights
> 
> I'm competitive as hell, this guy has a serious problem


Exactly!


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Marc said:


> We had one locally here: UNL professor arrested for steroid possession, distribution
> 
> 
> University prof. By all reports a guy who did right by his students, in his spare hours was a body builder and competed...helped a ton of kids eat and be healthier...but he himself was using and dealing steroids. It just boggles the mind, especially knowing what that stuff does to the body long term. And he was an academic.


That's my feeling on this stuff as well.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

"An analysis of that sample revealed traces of raloxifene, ostarine, ibutamoren, GW1516 sulfone, RAD140, LGD4033, and andarine. "

If this is what an amateur is doing, you have to wonder what the pros take.


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## Jackhammer (Sep 23, 2014)

Rashadabd said:


> I guess I just don't get this. Why is any masters or amateur racer doping? You don't have the same sort of financial windfall enticing you that the pros do in that riding your way into millions of dollars isn't a possibility. So, why risk your health and throw away something you are doing for enjoyment and fitness? The pros are dumb for doing it too, but I can't even begin to understand the amateur and masters dopers.
> 
> Former Rock Racing rider Leogrande banned for second doping case | Cyclingnews.com


Really?

The fountain of youth? 

Health foods?

The whole Pharmaceutical industry?

Plastic surgery?

GNC?

Professional athletes do horribly unhealthy things and there is widespread celebration of them.


Many professional cyclists/endurance athletes have physiques which are just as freakish as those of bodybuilders...

And it's really not that normal to ride a bike more than 3-4 hours a day every weekend. 

It's certainly not required to attain normal good health..


I'm with you that doping is kind of crazy but it doesn't surprise me in the least.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

Hey this guy was more like Lance than I thought...

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/m...toos-courts-barrage-lawsuits-article-1.327486

"Leogrande recently served a defamation complaint upon Matt DeCanio, a fellow professional cyclist, and Suzanne Sonye, a former staff member for the Rock Racing team - which is stocked with several riders tainted by doping scandals, including 2004 Olympic gold medalist Tyler Hamilton."


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Lovely, I'm sure he's his hero.


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## No Time Toulouse (Sep 7, 2016)

FWIW, cyclists have been 'doping' for at least a century. Back then it was elixirs made from bull's testicles, injected. At least there is some science behind it today, so I guess it's progress....


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## Eretz (Jul 21, 2012)

No Time Toulouse said:


> FWIW, cyclists have been 'doping' for at least a century. Back then it was elixirs made from bull's testicles, injected. At least there is some science behind it today, so I guess it's progress....


 Yup and then some. When I went to France, it was pretty obvious that was ruling the roost in cycling in the 80's and 90's. The Tour de France docteur, François Bellocq, said it best. Run a translator programme through it. 

I saw him twice a day as a CAT 1.

cyclisme-dopage.com - Portrait de François Bellocq


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## jrider05 (Aug 19, 2015)

TricrossRich said it perfectly in my opinion. And to add to it, cyclist and runners in general have to spend the most amount of time "training", and by training meaning the most time spent with an elevated heart rate at or above 110 beats per minute, than any other sport period. 

Hours and hours of time riding, spinning, intervals, hard days, slow days, 50 miles one day, 120 the next, back to 60 the next. Constant. Id have to believe there is way more time in the saddle than any other sport in the gym or on the tack doing work outs. Surprised more cyclists are not doping. 

As far as body building it might as well be expected. If you listen to Mr. Olympia Dorian Yates he talks about it like it was just as important as the food you eat. 

I never considered taking anything but there are 1000's of athletes, someone is going to do it amateur and pro. 

And with all this new training advise coming out to the masses more and more athletes are stepping up their game, which will make everyone who is competitive step it up as well, and out of those a handful will do whatever it takes no matter the category.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Also, endurance sports don't require much skills. So when you take you the skills part, you're left with mainly the physiological part, and that's best improved by doping.

I also think it's unfair to curse at aging Masters cyclists too. Doping is very very rampant in the pro and amateur body building scene, probably much more rampant than cycling since there is no testing there. Yet, amateurs spends hundreds and even thousands per months just to look shredded. It has a lot to do with ego, like mentioned above.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

MMsRepBike said:


> They should eliminate the Masters category all together.
> 
> Make them race with the rest.


And hasten the death of amateur racing in the US at a greater rate than USAC is already doing it. You'd actually drive away a lot of former Masters and increase the incidence of doping among those that hang around. Bad idea.

Masters prop up the very shaky house of cards that is the USAC. While its collapse may be a good thing in some areas, it would eliminate sanctioned racing altogether in others. There is not a multitude of organizations out there clamoring for the role of national sanctioning body- especially in the road disciplines.

Kayle's a douchenozzle. We knew that years ago. He still is a douchenozzle. He'll probably return after his ban (if the USAC still exists) and dope again to win races nobody cares about.


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## Maelochs (Aug 22, 2016)

What I don't understand is why they will let the guy return after eight years if this is his second offense.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Maelochs said:


> What I don't understand is why they will let the guy return after eight years if this is his second offense.


Maybe they figure that cancer will get him by then.


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## jspharmd (May 24, 2006)

Whenever someone says they are shocked by PED use, I'm always shocked that they're shocked. I think about a day in the gym when a guy asked me what I was "doing" to get as big as I was. I launched into my diet and how much protein I was consuming and related it to carbs and fat. He interrupted me and said "No, what are you DOING?" He didn't believe that I was natural, so he proceeded to point out ~75% of guys in the gym and tell me what steroids they were using. I was surprised to see guys, that weren't even competing, taking steroids. Heck, many of them had only been working out for 2-3 months. 

So, when hear of a cyclist using PEDs, I assume they are like many Americans. They want the fast-track to success and PEDs will get them there (even if it doesn't mean anything to you or me).


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

jspharmd said:


> Whenever someone says they are shocked by PED use, I'm always shocked that they're shocked. I think about a day in the gym when a guy asked me what I was "doing" to get as big as I was. I launched into my diet and how much protein I was consuming and related it to carbs and fat. He interrupted me and said "No, what are you DOING?" He didn't believe that I was natural, so he proceeded to point out ~75% of guys in the gym and tell me what steroids they were using. I was surprised to see guys, that weren't even competing, taking steroids. Heck, many of them had only been working out for 2-3 months.
> 
> So, when hear of a cyclist using PEDs, I assume they are like many Americans. They want the fast-track to success and PEDs will get them there (even if it doesn't mean anything to you or me).


I grew up in athletics well before the ridiculous and widespread abuse of PEDs. So, I for one am not only shocked. But, fcking shocked, amazed, pissed and terrified not only at the misuse but, the attitude like it's ok. I've even had *******s tell me I'm crazy for not using steroids, etc...fckin wankers. Good luck with your cancer morons.


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