# Developing Glutes?



## Henry Wilt (Jun 6, 2014)

This might be a stupid question but....

I have been riding for a while now (about a year because I enjoy riding and another 6 months to a year before that purely to try and lose weight and get fit) and am a bit concerned regarding my my power development.
_At this point I will say that I don't have a power meter so I am basing this on my HR data, my perception of how well I seem to do on a ride compared to others or compared to previous rides of the same route and on Strava power estimations._
I have noticed that my hamstrings, quads and calf muscles are now pretty solid and are definitely increasing in size. However, I can't see or feel any appreciable difference in my glutes. 
Having read a report about where the power comes from on a pedal stroke, I was quite surprised at how high the percentage was that was produced from the glutes. This is why I am wondering whether or not I need to start doing some specific exercises aiming at that region of my body. Or, is it that I have some deficiency in my technique that is not utilizing my muscles correctly, in which case, how do I identify that.

I would appreciate anyones views, ideas, suggestions or how they might have tackled this issue. (That is if it is really an issue at all.)

TIA


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

I wanted to fix this same issue last year and found doing a few core exercises to 'activate' the glutes during the last part of leg extension worked great to get them integrated into my pedal stroke more. I did this plus rolling my hips forward, relaxing my calf, focusing on not using quads as much and getting lower in the front (drops) and viola - I started feeling them actually getting sore for the first time after longer rides indicating they were more active. Now I can actually feel them firming up too.


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## Henry Wilt (Jun 6, 2014)

Thanks Srode. I have started doing some core exercises already so now I will try and take your other points into consideration when I am riding. 
Have you noticed an improvement in your riding now you are integrating your glutes into your pedal stroke?


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

Your glutes activate more when either the difference between your butt and your shoulder height while riding is reduced. In other words, you're not sitting so upright. I'm talking riding in the drops or typically riding with hands on the hoods, arms bent, and your back in a more parallel position to the ground.

Another position which activates the glutes is if the seat is rearward on the rails. You pedal with more input from your hamstrings and glutes.

I am NOT advocating changing your bike position merely to result in glute development, but being a new cyclist perhaps your bike fit needs to be examined.

I know some cyclists who have "no butt" to speak of yet they're still fast.


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## Henry Wilt (Jun 6, 2014)

Thanks Peter P. 
I did have my bike fitted a couple of months after I bought it but have changed my saddle as I just never got comfortable. It might be the different shape has altered the position I sit in. I might have to go back and see the fitter again.
I have to admit that I have had a tendency to ride mainly on the tops in the past but I am riding more and more on the hoods now. I am consciously trying to ride more in the drops now but that is a slow process as I am not very confident there and I find my neck and shoulders ache after a fairly short period of time (one of the reasons I am doing core exercises to help this).
I am not overly concerned about developing my "butt" other than worrying about missing out on all that power.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

I am of an rapidly growing belief that what you're describing is a common functional problem for many cyclists, and that the root cause is core strength. You might find some help in a book that deals exactly with that subject titled _Tom Danielson's Core Advantage: Core Strength for Cycling's Winning Edge_. The exercises (no equipment needed) are pretty simple, typically take 15-20 min's per workout, are developed for the specific functional needs for cycling, and glutes are well covered.


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## Henry Wilt (Jun 6, 2014)

Thanks ibericb. 
I will try and get hold of a copy of that book, although that might not be easy as I am in Thailand (very difficult to find a good selection of books locally and a lot of on-line suppliers won't ship to here - I think my daughters had problems with Amazon before)
But you have given me encouragement that I am doing the right thing with core exercises. 

*Edit:* I have just found a playlist on Youtube with the exercises. I am not sure if it all of them from the book but it's a good start anyway. And as a plus for me, I am already doing several of these in my core workout.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

ibericb said:


> I am of an rapidly growing belief that what you're describing is a common functional problem for many cyclists, and that the root cause is core strength. You might find some help in a book that deals exactly with that subject titled _Tom Danielson's Core Advantage: Core Strength for Cycling's Winning Edge_. The exercises (no equipment needed) are pretty simple, typically take 15-20 min's per workout, are developed for the specific functional needs for cycling, and glutes are well covered.


Thanks man! Just ordered it. Are you familiar with Mark Verstagen and his Core Performance series? I'm a big fan. But this, designed for cyclists, looks like a great read.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

I wouldn't worry about it to much. You can do some deadlifts and squats if you want a rockin a$$, but generally cyclists don't have big glutes. As others have said, if you want to activate them more move the saddle down and back.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

If Allison Westfahl (the brains behind the exercises) told me to do it, I'd do it just because she's nice to look at. She put together a video series demonstrating some of the exercises included - they're available for free on her website, and YouTube.


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## Henry Wilt (Jun 6, 2014)

Thanks kbiker3111


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

kbiker3111 said:


> I wouldn't worry about it to much. You can do some deadlifts and squats if you want a rockin a$$, but generally cyclists don't have big glutes. As others have said, if you want to activate them more move the saddle down and back.


You don't need "big glutes". But to be a powerful cyclist you do need good glute strength and functionality. Glute strength is fundamental to stabilizing the hip and pelvis, and keeping the leg in alignment. Weak glutes limit power development, and can lead to lower back pain as other muscles get recruited when glute strength is inadequate. Weak glutes can also lead to knee pain arising from insertion into the IT band. Don't underestimate the importance of strong glutes in cycling.


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## Mandeville (Oct 18, 2014)

The previous posts regarding core and glute exercises via books and YouTube videos should give you all you need to work on building up your glutes and to get them to fire properly. That result in they will become more active with in conjunction with other muscles during the pedal stroke. 

An adjunct to the above, (not a substitute), is pedaling while in the drops or out on the hoods with elbows bent will work the glutes more in the pedal stroke. You don't want to carried away with how much you do this but to use a bit of common sense on where and how long.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Henry Wilt said:


> Thanks Srode. I have started doing some core exercises already so now I will try and take your other points into consideration when I am riding.
> Have you noticed an improvement in your riding now you are integrating your glutes into your pedal stroke?


More power, yes. Faster, yes. More comfortable on long rides like centuries, yes. Was it all the glutes being activated, probably not but I think it contributes. 

The book referenced by others that Tom Danielson wrote with help from his PT is the one I use for my core exercise.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

If you want a rock solid looking set of glutes, then hit the gym and squat.

As far as cycling goes, the main drivers are the quads. That's why your quads develop more relatively to the glutes. If the glutes were the dominant drivers, then they would look more prominent! it's that simple.

Look at all the top cyclists, they have flatass.

Now there are exceptions. For example, track sprinters have both big quads and big glutes. But that's because these guys also spend a lot more time in the gym doing squat compared to a true roadie.

now you can also ride in the drop, basically hunch your back, and this will activate the glutes more. But problem here is that you can only ride hard in the drop for a short period of time before you need to sit up (and go to the hoods) so that your back can relax and you can breathe easier. Guys only go to the drop when they need to hammer (eg, in a chase) for a relatively short effort. For all-day effort, almost everyone sit up and ride on the hoods (and hence they work their quads more).


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## Henry Wilt (Jun 6, 2014)

OK, I moved the saddle back and dropped the front a little for todays ride. I also spent most of my time on the hoods and in the drops, certainly more than I have down before.

I am not sure if my quads are hurting more today because of this or because Fridays ride and todays, I have consciously been trying to increase my cadence and have less time coasting. I can't say that I notice any aching in my glutes though (yet?). I guess I shouldn't be trying more than one thing at a time. 
The Strava power estimate is up on recent rides (if that is actually worth anything?) and I increased my average speed over the route, so I think something worked out right. 
I have a slow MTB ride with friends tomorrow, a regular occurrence, so I will experiment more on Tuesday with a longer ride of around 100-120km, I only did 45km today, and see how it goes.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

The gluteus maximus is a primary hip extensor- it functions to rotate the femur around the hip joint. It provides its serious power and maximum effort during the initial portion of the power push phase of the pedal circle from top (12 o'clock) to about 90° of rotation (3 o'clock when viewed from the right side) where the hip is most flexed, and hip extension will provide the greatest initial contribution to force applied to the pedals. 

The quads function to extend and straighten the leg about the knee. That becomes more significant as the rotation move further towards 180° (6 o'clock). 

If the gluteus maximus are weak and not up to the task for which they exist, the brain will recruit the hamstrings as a secondary group, to whatever extent necessary, to do what would be better served by glutes if they are strong enough and up to the task. The problem is, you won't know it as it happens. Muscle recruitment is not something you consciously control when cycling. Changing your position (drops vs. hood vs. bar tops) will alter the need for hip vs. knee extension, and the brain's call for which muscles at different phases. But which muscles get recruited depends on their ability to do the task. If you have weak or non-functioning gluteus maximus the brain will draw on the hamstrings as a second, and ideally less optimal choice, in their place. So by changing your position to one that increases the need for more hip extension relative to knee extension, if your glutes are inadequate you will actually be increasing the workload on the hamstrings, not the gluteus maximus.

The gluteus medius and minimus have an entirely different function. They serve to stabilize the hip during thigh rotation to prevent the thigh from rotating externally, and stabilize the pelvis from moving away from the forceful leg (leaning and dropping to the other side). By stabilizing the hip and pelvis they allow for greater effective force, minimizing lateral force ,in rotating the pedals with less of the applied force going to moving the rider laterally up and away from the force being applied by the leg and foot.


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## Mandeville (Oct 18, 2014)

ibericb said:


> The gluteus maximus...provides its serious power and maximum effort during the initial portion of the power push phase of the pedal circle from top (12 o'clock) to about 90° of rotation (3 o'clock when viewed from the right side) where the hip is most flexed..*.(1)*
> 
> The quads function to extend and straighten the leg about the knee. *That becomes more significant as the rotation move further towards 180° (6 o'clock). (2) *
> 
> If the gluteus maximus are weak...the brain will recruit the hamstrings as a secondary group...to do what would be better served by glutes if they are strong enough and up to the task. The problem is, you won't know it as it happens...Changing your position (drops vs. hood vs. bar tops) will alter the need for hip vs. knee extension, and the brain's call for which muscles at different phases. But which muscles get recruited depends on their ability to do the task. If you have weak or non-functioning gluteus maximus the brain will draw on the hamstrings as a second, and ideally less optimal choice, in their place. So by changing your position to one that increases the need for more hip extension relative to knee extension, if your glutes are inadequate you will actually be increasing the workload on the hamstrings, not the gluteus maximus.* (3)*


Exactly. And very eloquently stated!

1. Why the glutes are so important to getting an optimal power stroke.

2. Why a high percentage of road bike riders have their seats too low and consequently don't reach optimal extension of the quads at the down stroke. 

3. Why I stated riding in the drops was an adjunct to developing or working the glutes and not a substitute for exercises to strengthen and have them fire correctly and in proper sequence with the other muscles moving the bike.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Henry Wilt said:


> I have consciously been trying to increase my cadence and have less time coasting. I can't say that I notice any aching in my glutes though (yet?). I guess I shouldn't be trying more than one thing at a time.


Don't know that cadence should matter but I find my cadence is lower on my long rides and that's when I'm trying to stay in the drops more for aerodynamic efficiency and this is where I'm probably emphasizing use of glutes more. Keep doing the level1 workout on page 98 of the 'Core Advantage' book, specifically the opposite arm / leg reach and the hip bridge with heal slides and you will start feeling the glutes assuming you are riding in the right position to encourage utilization.


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## Henry Wilt (Jun 6, 2014)

Srode said:


> Don't know that cadence should matter but I find my cadence is lower on my long rides and that's when I'm trying to stay in the drops more for aerodynamic efficiency and this is where I'm probably emphasizing use of glutes more. Keep doing the level1 workout on page 98 of the 'Core Advantage' book, specifically the opposite arm / leg reach and the hip bridge with heal slides and you will start feeling the glutes assuming you are riding in the right position to encourage utilization.


Increasing my cadence is a separate thing that I have started working on so that I can maintain a higher cadence on inclines for longer. I have found that I have been happy settling around 80-82rpm for the duration of my rides and when I have needed to get up around 90-95 for climbing (the region I have found to be more efficient for me) I haven't been able to maintain it.
I am still trying to learn what will be my most comfortable cadence for long rides as I tend to find I am struggling towards the end of a ride. I think using my HRM will help me figure this out.

As an addition to my last post yesterday. My quads were seriously aching this morning but I didn't feel anything in my glutes until about 5 minutes into my ride. Then I realised that I had definitely used them yesterday!! It took about 20 minutes for them to loosen up!! At least I know now that the changes on the saddle and my position had some of the desired effect.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

ibericb said:


> You don't need "big glutes". But to be a powerful cyclist you do need good glute strength and functionality. Glute strength is fundamental to stabilizing the hip and pelvis, and keeping the leg in alignment. Weak glutes limit power development, and can lead to lower back pain as other muscles get recruited when glute strength is inadequate. Weak glutes can also lead to knee pain arising from insertion into the IT band. Don't underestimate the importance of strong glutes in cycling.


Well OK, but does glute strength and functionality for a healthy individual require any focus beyond riding a well fitting bike?


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

kbiker3111 said:


> Well OK, but does glute strength and functionality for a healthy individual require any focus beyond riding a well fitting bike?


It well can, especially if you spend a lot of time sitting, or not regularly using/working your glutes. Over time you can lose a lot of glute strength due to lack of use, and you won't get it back by just cycling alone. Instead the hamstrings take over, and they become limiting. There are also reports of folks who lost the majority of glute activation and strength due to injuries, and it took PT to get it back. It reportedly is a very common weakness among recreational cyclists. It's also a common weakness among those who suffer chronic low back pain (like me).


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## Mandeville (Oct 18, 2014)

ibericb said:


> It well can, especially if you spend a lot of time sitting, or not regularly using/working your glutes. Over time you can lose a lot of glute strength due to lack of use, and you won't get it back by just cycling alone. Instead the hamstrings take over, and they become limiting... It's also a common weakness among those who suffer chronic low back pain (like me).


Currently my glutes are not firing or engaging properly and I'm just starting a rehab and training regimen to build them up. 

My stroke performance suffers from too tight quads, hamstrings doing a disproportionate amount of work of which more should be shifted to the glutes that are way under utilized and do not fire properly in the coordinated muscle firing for optimal results. 

The glues are the way they are due to lack of training, over-developed or improperly developed hamstrings, back injuries and lots of sitting most of the day. 

The quads are due to the fact that I cannot load the knee under flexion for stretching which is the foudnation for best or proper stretching of the quads. There are some workaround but none are as effect of the numerous stretches that load that knee, (the same knee that limits the type of glute exercises I can do.)


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Mandeville said:


> Currently my glutes are not firing or engaging properly and I'm just starting a rehab and training regimen to build them up. ...


Are you in a PT program, or are you doing this self directed?


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

I've found glute balance as well as muscular balance top to bottom, front to back and side to side is very important as a cyclist to help avoid injury and develop good power.

Focusing on strengthening just the glute is a mistake imo and I don't know anyone who does this. As long as you are well fitted on the bike, balanced and muscles are activated I think the specificity of riding is the best activity to improve glute performance as it relates to the pedal stroke.

So pretty much just ride if you are not having any problems. So simple


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## Mandeville (Oct 18, 2014)

woodys737 said:


> Focusing on strengthening just the glute is a mistake imo and I don't know anyone who does this. As long as you are well fitted on the bike, balanced and muscles are activated I think the specificity of riding is the best activity to improve glute performance as it relates to the pedal stroke.
> 
> So pretty much just ride if you are not having any problems. So simple


I think you are missing some key elements in arriving at your conclusion. If you get on a bike with your muscle groups all fit and properly balanced AND coordinated as a unit, then yes your glutes will develop by riding to their near optimal level. 

However, even if you start out with properly balanced muscles and they are coordinated as a unit for the pedal stroke you are still doing pretty much a one directional use of those muscles. One direction uses of the legs, hips, glutes does not make for a proper development or use of the muscles. If you start out weak or out of balance a common problem is where the glutes should be kicking in they actually don't, especially if when off the bike you do nothing to strengthen and coordinate them into the muscle system the propels the bike. 

See the following which is an excellent explanation from an earlier post in this thread by ibericb: 



> On the issue of can you get proper glutes just from riding the bike or might you need additional glute work or have weak glutes even if just riding:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

I agree. If any muscle isn't firing/engaged that issue needs to be addressed. Once fixed (read balanced) ride the bike. If you do work in the gym it should be well balanced...not just an overemphasis on on group (glutes). 

I think we are saying the same thing.


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## Mandeville (Oct 18, 2014)

woodys737 said:


> I agree. If any muscle isn't firing/engaged that issue needs to be addressed. Once fixed (read balanced) ride the bike. If you do work in the gym it should be well balanced...not just an overemphasis on on group (glutes).
> 
> I think we are saying the same thing.


Yes, we agree. You are just much more concise than I am.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

aclinjury said:


> If you want a rock solid looking set of glutes, then hit the gym and squat.


One can have rock hard glutes, but still have problems with the glutes activating properly during activities...like walking, running or cycling. Ask Tiger Woods about glute activation. 

The only way to know if one's glutes are firing properly is to do some physical tests. Getting them to fire when they're "trained" to allow other muscles to do their work (e.g. hamstrings, lower back) is a tricky process.


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