# New to racing, beginner questions for CAT5



## Rugergundog (Apr 2, 2011)

Hey guys (and gals). Im wondering if you all could give me some insight into my preparation for my first bike race.
Im 36 years old and for all intensive purposes new to the aspect of cycle racing. I wan a DII all-american track and field and cc runner back in the late 1990's who did the occasional duathlon with a 30k bike component for fun.

Anyhow, im fairly fit but am by no means a "cyclist" or active runner currently. (6'1"- 160lb).


Okay, so the race is broken into CAT's and would have me in a CAT5 at 36 doing two loopes of a course for a race in the 37mile range. Course in in Michigan with low rolling hills and is in the end of April.

Ive been training for a few weeks now to get myself back in the swing of things; spinning for 30-45m on my trainer. Today i went out for a ride solo for 20 miles and averaged 17.6mph with a 8mph wind in my face 50% of the time.

Okay....so there is my fitness level. Im not sure if what i provided is enough information.....but considering i have about 7 weeks still to train do you all feel i would be capable of tagging along at 19mph with the group? Last years results show the CAT5 group finished just under 2 hours.

I ask as.......am I in over my head or should i be able to stick with the main group most likely?

My training right now has me on the bike 5 days a week and running another 2 days.

Thanks
Bob


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## Rugergundog (Apr 2, 2011)

Oh, after reading another newbie thread. Yes, i have been on group rides. In past years i rode with a club and am hooking up with a group of guys a few times a week.

This race is a "tour" not a crit if it makes a difference.

Bob


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

Rugergundog said:


> Hey guys (and gals). Im wondering if you all could give me some insight into my preparation for my first bike race.
> Im 36 years old and for all intensive purposes new to the aspect of cycle racing. I wan a DII all-american track and field and cc runner back in the late 1990's who did the occasional duathlon with a 30k bike component for fun.
> 
> Anyhow, im fairly fit but am by no means a "cyclist" or active runner currently. (6'1"- 160lb).
> ...


Doubtful. I'm averaging around 21 mph for that distance sole and figure I would get shelled on the first hill by most cat5s. That said, who cares, go for it.

This britany owner toting a 28 ga red label approves of your user name.


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## drummerboy1248 (Jan 6, 2005)

If the avg speed is only 19 mph as you state, I think you should be able to hang onto that. But I think that speed estimate would be on the slow side. One of my training partner's CAT 5 race averaged just over 23 mph a couple of weeks ago. Unless this course has some major climbing to it, I think it'll be faster than 19.
7 weeks is definitely enough time to put on some good fitness and have you competitive, depending on your statrting fitness level. I do wonder about training 7 days/week. I think you will be overtrained and fatigued on that schedule. Tired usually equals dropped. Give it a shot and best of luck.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

Well, _Bicycling_ says I can "Ride Like a Pro in 7 Days", so I guess you can pull it off.

Seriously though, I say race and see.

Forget average speed. What you do solo has no bearing on what you will do in a peloton in race situations. Also, terrain, temperature, tactics, and all sorts of other factors come into play here. My last time trial over rolling terrain I averaged just under 23MPH. For the hillclimb that afternoon I averaged around 12MPH. The next day's road race stage we averaged just over 20MPH. Those averages mean absolutely nothing, except in relation to how everyone else did on that course on that day.

In the meantime:
- Do not ride every ride at the same intensity (full-out).
- If you don't have one, get a heart rate monitor and learn how to use it.
- Ride with a group when you can. Riding with a slightly faster group is better than leading a slower group.
- Take a day or two off every week. At the very least ride active recovery. You need rest.
- Climb as many hills as you can. If the biggest hill you can find is an overpass, climb that over and over. Hills make you stronger.
- At least once a week, do a long ride (say twice the distance of your goal race) at a moderate pace.
- Practice eating and drinking on the bike, even if the ride isn't long enough to call for it.
- Check out the many books out there with training plans. Interval training is not a lot of fun, but it really works. Even following one of _Bicycling's_ training plans would help make you faster.

For the race:
- Eat right and get plenty of sleep the night before.
- Show up well before the race starts so you have plenty of time to sign in, warm up (for that length of race I usually warm up for about 30 minutes- YMMV), and take care of all the small details before you're called to the line. Stay dry, warm, and well-hydrated (but don't over-hydrate). Make sure you have enough fuel and water for the race, and be sure to eat and drink periodically. 
- Try to stay near the front of the pack yet out of the wind to avoid crashes and conserve energy. Take pulls as you feel you can, but don't drag the group around.
- Have fun.


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## Rugergundog (Apr 2, 2011)

Looks like you guys are correct...i think i mis calculated the time/speed. Okay for "beginner CAT5 36 year old + the times were; looks like the lead pack came through in 1.23 and some change.........the rest trickled in with the last "group" crossing in around 1.40 or so for a course of 31 miles. Im not sure what that equates to but...its faster than 19mph.

Ive got a good grip on training and rest coming from a intense running background.......and yea i do intend to mix up rest with hard and easy days. In fact right now all im doing is putting in miles, some days a little harder than others; but no intervals or anything like that. 

I would like to do this event as it is a motivator for me to keep working hard. However; if i am going to be a stone in the back and not even get to roll with the guys I might as well save my $50 and buy a new jersey right now, ahahaha.

As for the user name....yep, Ruger "the gun dog" is a Brittany as well


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

1:23 for 31 miles averages out to about 22.4MPH, give or take. 1:40 would put them at about 18.6MPH. Again, it means nothing except that's how fast they were going on that course on that day. 

Races are rarely a steady-state affair. Sometimes you go faster, sometimes slower. Whether or not you can hang with them is completely dependent on your ability to handle the accelerations. Interval training will help with this.


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## Rugergundog (Apr 2, 2011)

Im trying to equate this the best i can to my running background; and i totally agree with everything you guys are saying as it all applies virtually the same to cross country and track.

One day i could carve out 14:30 for a 5k another day 15:10 depending on the course and weather and all. However i could tell a new guy to the team; hey all things considered if you can run sub 16 for a 5k you won't get dropped too far. 

I guess that is the sort of assurance im looking for. Hell, i know im not gonna run with the leaders, ahaha.

Looks like ill keep working on my form and building up my tolerance for the burn while hammering.

I do use a HR monitor and have in the past had my VO2 tested and body fat and all that mojo while running in college......very interesting stuff. I might add that while running in college my VO2 and lactic threshold were tested on a bike. I remember the lab guy telling me......hey you prob won't want to run practice today after this stuff. I though.....yea right im a stud, we are only doing a slow 10 miles recovery run. Bzzzrrrrppp....wrong. I got done with those test my legs were jello and i lost my cookies, ahahahahah..........but that was in 1998........today is a whole new ball of wax. I was 24 then.....will be 37 in a few months.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

You might want to pick up Chris Carmichael's "Time Crunched Training" book. He subscribes to higher intensity getting you both the "base" and the "high gear" needed to do races and his training plan is an 8 week plan, which is almost perfect for the time you have left until this event. I say go for it regardless, even if you get dropped, it is a learning experience at the very least.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

The hard parts of bike races are harder than the hardest parts of running races, and the easier parts are easier. It's only on extended climbs (like an hour or more) that they're comparable.


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## Rugergundog (Apr 2, 2011)

Ill see if i can find that literature. Thanks!


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## DMH1721 (Aug 30, 2010)

+1 Alaska Mike. Seems like the lower cats are so "into" average speed and it really means nothing. I've done races where we putt around for 2 hours and then the hammer goes down and, althought the average for the whole race might be low, that last hour made it a very, very hard race. I've also done crits with 180 riders on flat courses where we averaged over 30mph and it felt "easy" due to the amount of riders (lots of places to hide, lots of draft).
On my own, even when I was racing at a very high level, I almost never had "high" average speeds for my rides. I coached a triathlete for a couple of seasons and I tried to hammer into his head that you have to train at 12 mph and 28 mph to average 22 (if he was looking for a certain average for his race). IOW, hard intervals with easy recovery. 
7 weeks, given you background, is easily enough time. My first RR many years ago, I had done some winter training but I was coming from a running background. I did the Cat5/citizens race and it felt pretty easy. I remember having a grin from ear to ear and from that day on I knew I was hooked and would never go back to running. Though, I admit, there were plenty of NRC races where that grin was much more of a grimace


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## Rugergundog (Apr 2, 2011)

That makes sense. What im finding is my running background and or muscle memory and overall genetic disposition to do well in that arena of competition is benefiting me in regards to my overall ability to sustain a level of lactic burn and endurance........what i am also finding is my predominant make-up of slow twitch muscles and overall thin build is combining to prove hard for pushing the pedals.....what is it called...if i remember aerobic vs anerobic. I could do mile repeats all day long while training for track....but running 200m and 400m intervals would smoke my legs, while some of my team buddies where just the opposite. 

Looks like im going to try to find that 8 week training cycle, keep up on my weight room, dieting better and do my best and then re-evaluate after 4 weeks in.

Oh and by the way......this is for fun and motivation to maybe help me set some goals and what not to work towards.

Thanks for all the input guys


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## WEG (Nov 6, 2005)

I was a competitive runner in college

If you could run a 14:30 5K you will probably do just fine in a Cat 5 race

You may not win the sprint but you probably won't get dropped either

Drafting in the pack saves a huge amount of energy - so keep that in mind

Cycling is a great sport and the exercise physiology is (for me) even more interesting than in competitive running


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## Rugergundog (Apr 2, 2011)

I was running mid 14's in the 5k and around 30min for the 10k........however this was back in 1994-1998......its 2011, ahaha. Though i am not over weight or such, ive just as of lately resumed a fitness routine.

Is there an area of the forum that i could go to for some base work outs to utilize prior to finding a plan.

Something set out 
Day 1: X miles, X pace
Day 2: X miles, X pace
etc.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

Rugergundog said:


> I was running mid 14's in the 5k and around 30min for the 10k........however this was back in 1994-1998......its 2011, ahaha. Though i am not over weight or such, ive just as of lately resumed a fitness routine.
> 
> Is there an area of the forum that i could go to for some base work outs to utilize prior to finding a plan.
> 
> ...


As a runner, you should be familiar with Arthur Lydiard. http://velodynamics2.webs.com/modelplan.pdf


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## RipTide (May 4, 2007)

Rugergundog said:


> for all intensive purposes


The only way to find out if you can hang is to get out there and try. For future reference, the expression is, "for all intents and purposes."


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## the_gormandizer (May 12, 2006)

RipTide said:


> The only way to find out if you can hang is to get out there and try.


+1. I got dropped in my first road race (Cat 5, age 49) and still came back for more. A race seldom plays out in reality the way it does in your head. It definitely won't the first time you race. Just go and have fun.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Runners stereotypically get dropped in the first few miles when they are unable / unwilling to respond to the early accelerations. Best thing you could do is lots of short, high intensity intervals - in the 30 second to 2 minute range, all-out, with short recoveries between. 

You may have referred to them as "wind sprints" if you are old school. 

Bike races are often decided by all-out sprint accelerations (aka "attacks"), which cause gaps to form in the pack... if you are behind the gap, your day just got a lot harder as you try to catch back on to a faster group who are enjoying the benefits of drafting while you are not.


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## Poncharelli (May 7, 2006)

There is a strong correlation between success in running and cycling.

That's why so many professional cyclist are from Kenya.


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## BassNBrew (Aug 4, 2008)

Thought the OP would enjoy these.


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## Neil Fronheiser (Nov 16, 2007)

I think the best way to find out is to go race the damn race. Why is racing becoming high speed accounting? you can crunch numbers all day long and that information goes right out the door as soon as everyone around you clips into there pedals. You have to race other people, you don't race a calculator.

I have watched alot of new racers pour thousands and thousands of dollars into there equipment and coaching without producing any reasonable results. People are riding based on what there computers tell them and not racing anymore. I even see it in pro 1, 2 fields. I've been told to slow down in a breakaway because 1 of the 8 riders had to high of a power # on their meter. SHUT UP AND RIDE!!

Good luck and enjoy learning how to race, but please keep it simple. You will have way more fun.


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## splifrover (Jan 6, 2011)

Go race. I just started riding this year and have done crit and a 30 mile race and got smoked both races. Haha!!! I got a lot of work to do but it's super fun.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

That dog must be a good shot.


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## Rugergundog (Apr 2, 2011)

Well guys im doing some base rides getting ready for the carmichael crunch workout. Its amazing how fast i can already feel my fitness on the bike improving.

Been hard to meet up with the local riding group due to my work schedule. And the few times i did go to meet up apparently they felt 42 was too cold to ride.

So.....i got one riding buddy to work with on weekends. Kicker is he is quite a bit slower than I.

By the way, great looking Brittany. Here is a bit more eye candy of my dude(s).
I train upland dogs on the side. My Brittany and GSP are utilized as versatile upland dogs on both fur and feather.


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## durielk (Jan 8, 2011)

My suggestion...
Get some miles in, you need base miles. Until they are done, your training will wear you out. Do not ride hard for the full ride, do a few hard jumps and run for 5 min, maybe only 2 of these on 2 rides/week. The rest of the time take it easy. 
You would be better off being somewhat trained but well rested, so the last week, go out for easy, easy rides. No Hammering or race testing.
Stop running, rest instead.


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## Rugergundog (Apr 2, 2011)

I will be following the carmichael 8-11 week workout by the book (pending overall health of course). 

I do understand that rest is not a day off.....rest is actually a integral part of the prior and next days workout. Only running i will be doing from here on out will be components of basic plyometrics, stretching and some cool down stuff, no real "work outs" running.


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