# Genearl Litespeed questions, and about Litespeed in 2007



## DBtheCyclist (Oct 4, 2004)

I am kind of new to posting on this forum, however in reading some other posts in the Litespeed / Merlin area, I understand that someone who works for Litespeed participates, is that correct ? Is there anything special I need to do to get him to see my post ? And/or, perhaps other readers will know this ?

I have placed a post, recently, in the Frames area, regarding Serotta Ti vs. Litespeed Ti, vs. steel (my current bike is a custom frame Eisentraut, a 63 c-to-top frame, that is 57 c-to-c in the top tube (a bit shorter front to back than most 63 frames). 

I have a few questions, regarding a 2006 61 cm Tuscany frame, that I am considering. Fristly, from what I have learned (or think I have learned  ), there will be no Litespeed frames in 2007 that have a level top tube, all will have a sloping top tube, is that right ? (it is highly likely that I will NOT buy a sloping top tube frame, just isn't the way I think a bike should look). If so, that means I better get my Tuscany now, or be put in the used frame market down the road (if I want a level top tube Litespeed anyway).

Now, on frame fit, the Tuscany, from what I can discern in pics, and specs, has the seat tube (63 in length, per website) and headtube protrude maybe a couple cm above the top tube. My frame does not. So, am I correct in thinking that the 61 cm Litespeed, height wise, is pretty much as tall as my 63 c-to-top (you can see my frame if you look for my recent post in the frames section), due to the extended seat and head tubes, just has the top tube a little lower but with the top of the seat and head tubes (effectively) as tall as my current bike ? 

On the front to back, the Tuscany is 59 cm, my frame 57 cm. Now, I know that angles of the seat and head tube will change the distance from the saddle to the bars, however I don't know mine, and doubt that I can get them. I have a short stem now, perhaps I could go just a bit shorter, and make up some or all of that 2 cm. ANYONE, I have never owned a bike with the current style of stems (mine is a quill stem, not a clamp on, or whatever they are called nowadays), and have no experience with them. I know that spacers can be used under the stem (I assume that fork steerer has to be cut longer to accomodate the spacers, and if it isn't cut long enough, well, too bad -- am I right ?) Am I understanding all this correctly ?

Any opinions (from anyone who didn't post already to my prior post http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=81771 would be very much appreciated !!!

Doug


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## HerbertK (Sep 23, 2004)

Doug,
Hopefully I'll have some answers for you that'll help you move forward. First off all don't worry too much whether we'll have a Tuscany in the lineup in 2007 as you can pretty much get any bike custom here just as you did about 10 years ago with your Eisentraut. We actually build quite a few custom bikes here and that is not always common knowledge.
As for us comparing the 2006 Tuscany with your Eisentraut that is quite tough as your bike is a custom bike. You are actually in the best position to make a good comparison as you have that Eisentraut close to you. It sounds like you are mostly concerned about toptube and headtube length and that is a proper thought. Don't worry though how the seattube length compares as that is a lesser issue.

Measure the exact headtube length of your Eisentraut and compare that to the Tuscany with the closest effective Tuscany toptube length. That should really help you with your decision.
Plus as I said, we can of course make you a bike in the custom shop that is dimension wise exactly like your Eisentraut.

Hope this finds you well.

Herbert
Litespeed

www.litespeed.com
The Litespeed Blog


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## DBtheCyclist (Oct 4, 2004)

*Custom frame Litespeed*



HerbertK said:


> Doug,
> Hopefully I'll have some answers for you that'll help you move forward. First off all don't worry too much whether we'll have a Tuscany in the lineup in 2007 as you can pretty much get any bike custom here just as you did about 10 years ago with your Eisentraut. We actually build quite a few custom bikes here and that is not always common knowledge.
> As for us comparing the 2006 Tuscany with your Eisentraut that is quite tough as your bike is a custom bike. You are actually in the best position to make a good comparison as you have that Eisentraut close to you. It sounds like you are mostly concerned about toptube and headtube length and that is a proper thought. Don't worry though how the seattube length compares as that is a lesser issue.
> 
> ...


Herbert, thanks much for your response. I understand your statements, and all things being equal they are all valid points. However, all things aren't equal; I am considering a on-sale Tuscany, for $1800 including an Easton fork, and I doubt that a custom frame Litespeed could be had for $1800 including a CF fork (please, correct me if I am wrong). I understand your statements about not being so concerned about the seat tube length, as (I am assuming this was the basis for your statement) the seatpost can make up for a shorter (up/down) frame. In line with your recommendation, your 59 cm frame has a 57.5 cm top tube, and the 57 cm frame has a 56.5. As precisely as I can measure with a yard stick, mine is 22.5 inches which = 57.15 cm. My concern in going with even a 59 cm frame rather than the 61 (your 61 is 2 cm shorter than my 63 now) is that now I am getting an even larger discrepancy between the overall height of the seat and height of the bars. I am 48 years old, not the most flexible guy in the world, so I don't want to have a huge amount of difference between the bar and seat heights.

Getting back to one of my original questions, it seems that your 61 would compare to my 63 (please look at the pic of my frame on my original post (link above), as your head and seat tube extend upward above the top tube, and on my frame they really don't. So, it would seem to me that your frame is pretty much a 63, from the standpoint of the top of the seat and head tubes, just with the top tube dropped down a couple cm at both ends, and still level. Is my perception and understanding correct here ? My other concern about the stem / bars is how high I can get them (don't have to be real far above the top of the head tube, just take a peek at my current bike), though I would hope that with spacers and the slope of the stem this can be addressed.

Unless I am wrong about the price of a custom frame of yours (my guess here is that it wouldn't be anywhere close to $1800 for frame and fork), I will likely give the 61 a try, as it seems to me that the height of the head and seat tubes is pretty much a match with my 63, however your frame is just under 2 cm longer. If I buy this frame (and I have to discuss this whole deal, a $4k bike, with my NON-cycling wife  and get her to accept it, no small task  ) I will have it built with a short stem, as short or maybe a little shorter than my bike now. 

Thanks much, 
Doug


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## HerbertK (Sep 23, 2004)

You are correct indeed, a custom Tuscany is not to be had for $1800, but I would also strongly recommend to not compromise your fit. It is not a good deal if it does not fit right.

It really looks like your Eisentraut is set up short and tall, and what you were able to do with a quill stem will be hard to duplicate with a threadless stem. If your Eisentraut fits you well, I'd actually recommend a custom bike with an even shorter toptube and a semi sloping toptube for a more upright position on the bike. The shorter toptube would then allow you to have a bit longer / average stem. 

I would also really recommend to get fitted and measured correctly again in a bike shop.

Hope this finds you well.

Herbert
Litespeed

www.litespeed.com
The Litespeed Blog


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## DBtheCyclist (Oct 4, 2004)

*Bike fit, and what is or ins't possible with today's stems ?*



HerbertK said:


> You are correct indeed, a custom Tuscany is not to be had for $1800, but I would also strongly recommend to not compromise your fit. It is not a good deal if it does not fit right.
> 
> It really looks like your Eisentraut is set up short and tall, and what you were able to do with a quill stem will be hard to duplicate with a threadless stem. If your Eisentraut fits you well, I'd actually recommend a custom bike with an even shorter toptube and a semi sloping toptube for a more upright position on the bike. The shorter toptube would then allow you to have a bit longer / average stem.
> 
> ...


Thanks again for the reply Herbert. My bike now, from measuring it just a few days ago, is a 62 or maybe just a little more c-to-top, and with a 57 c-to-c top tube. The head tube is 20 or a little less, the center of the bars is 12.5 - 13 cm above the top of the top tube, and the stem length c-to-c is 90-95 (are stems measured center to center). I am doing this with a yardstick, so I would say I could be off a little bit. 

Your 61 would be 1 cm shorter, 2 cm longer, with a head tube 2 cm shorter (which is in part due to my shorter frame, the shorter the frame front to back, the longer the head tube would have to be). Now on stems, the clamp-style that is in use now, I don't know what one could achieve using a stem that angles up, with spacers. Could I get a setup that would put the bars 12-13 cm above the top of the top tube, and with only 70-80 (make up for the longer frame) in length ? Anyone ?

I would have to say that a custom framed ti bike just isn't in my budget (I talked to my wife, who is out of town, tonight, and even the thought of a $4000 complete bike, such as the built up Tuscany, well, that didn't go over very well--if I can't change her stance, none of this matters  ). Eisentraut would build me a ti frame (he has all my specs) for $3500, a Serotta Legend Ti is like $3700, which may not even include the fork, and I am guessing a custom Litespeed would be in that range as well. Just not inexpensive animals, custom ti frames, they just aren't. I do have a stock 62 cm trek 2300 from 1990, that I put 17,000+ miles on, that is now my trainer bike. Have a real short stem on that, but I wouldn't say that it is uncomfortable. It is about 1/2 inch shorter than my Eisentraut, and 1/2 inch longer front to back. Seems like that is about what I am looking at here with the 61 cm Tuscany.

Whatever I get, if I get anything at all, I really want to avoid a sloping top tube, I just don't find that style of frame very pleasing to my eye. Call me "old school", or call me whatever you want, I just don't really like the look, I just don't.

Doug


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