# Crushed stone left on Rockland County Roads



## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

Last few weeks there's been a great deal of crushed stone left on the road due to repaving. Anyone know if Rockland sweeps the roads to remove all the excess stone. It's making rides back from Motts Farm and Lake Toriati particularly unpleasant, not to mention dangerous if one is caught riding too fast into an area of crushed stone.


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## RL7836 (Jun 17, 2014)

I suspect, that based on the time of year, you're referring to chipseal - the bane of bikers everywhere. Nasty, dangerous process (for us) that is making it's annual appearance on many of our central & western NJ roads. 

While I'm not familiar with procedures in Rockland, around here they do NOT sweep up the loose stone.


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## D&MsDad (Jul 17, 2007)

RL is right, the stones you are referring to were not "left", they were intentionally laid down as part of a road resurfacing method called chip and seal. This is an annual rite of passage in Rockland. Eventually everything gets tamped down. Until then, you need to pay attention to the road surface, and take extra care when turning form one road onto another - in case the road that you're turning onto has recently been "resurfaced".

I haven't noticed any sweeping of the loose stones in the 15+ years I've lived in Rockland.



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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

I've only been doing this portion of Rockland for the past three years, and only really in earnest this summer. How long does it typically tape for the crushed stone to fully move off to the side on its own?


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## robnj (Sep 26, 2013)

All depends on traffic volume. The more cars that drive, then more it gets ground in or pushed off. For sure when the snow plows come, then it will be gone.

I live in a cul-de-sac and I absolutely hate when they do this. We don't get enough traffic to ever work in the stone and we end up with tons of loose rock the gets pushed on my lawn by the snowplows. I am always on my town to get a street sweeper out and pick up this loose mess.

Chipseal is the poor mans way of resurfacing.


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## cnardone (Jun 28, 2014)

It ruined my riding for 2 weeks!!!!

Nothing like coming down Willow Grove from Lake Welch at almost 40 miles and hour to see chip seal everywhere. yikes!!!!! At this point, the tracks where cars go are pretty clean, but the sides are still like a beach full of pebbles. It is going to be a while before the edges are really clean. sigh.

cmn


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

cnardone said:


> It ruined my riding for 2 weeks!!!!
> 
> Nothing like coming down Willow Grove from Lake Welch at almost 40 miles and hour to see chip seal everywhere. yikes!!!!! At this point, the tracks where cars go are pretty clean, but the sides are still like a beach full of pebbles. It is going to be a while before the edges are really clean. sigh.
> 
> cmn


I did the exact same route and had the same reaction. My speed on the descent was slower though, but just as annoying.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

chipseal is seriously crap. virtually every road within a 10-mile radius of me is currently getting this treatment. 

the DOT bean-counters only care about bottom-line costs, they simply ignore the fact that it produces a terrible surface, especially for cyclists.


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## RL7836 (Jun 17, 2014)

cnardone said:


> It is going to be a while before the edges are really clean. sigh.


Then there's the '2nd generation' gotcha -- 2-4 weeks after chipsealing, it looks like the road is safe again -- and you get a little wide in a corner & find a 2" pile of slippery pebbles or make a fast right turn or (you get the idea). This crap is the gift that keeps on giving .....


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## D&MsDad (Jul 17, 2007)

Oxtox said:


> chipseal is seriously crap. virtually every road within a 10-mile radius of me is currently getting this treatment.
> 
> the DOT bean-counters only care about bottom-line costs, they simply ignore the fact that it produces a terrible surface, especially for cyclists.


It's a little hard to blame the DOT when people are always screaming about their taxes. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

Chip and seal is annoying, yes, but it doesn't "ruin" my riding. Pretend that you're riding the Stada Bianca. And believe the signs when they say "loose stone", or whatever, and modify your riding accordingly.



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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

D&MsDad said:


> It's a little hard to blame the DOT when people are always screaming about their taxes. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
> 
> Chip and seal is annoying, yes, but it doesn't "ruin" my riding. Pretend that you're riding the Stada Bianca. And believe the signs when they say "loose stone", or whatever, and modify your riding accordingly.
> 
> ...


It definitely ruins riding. Just come off a decent and catch and unexpected pile of this stuff. A cyclist can easily fall off his bike. Last week I was riding and a pick up truck went by, one of those loose stones flew and hit me pretty hard. Hurt like a mother. Luckily it didn't impact a sensitive area.


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## D&MsDad (Jul 17, 2007)

Trek_5200 said:


> How long does it typically tape for the crushed stone to fully move off to the side on its own?


Robnj is right. Most roads are pretty well tamped down in a couple of weeks, though as others have mentioned you can find piles of stones at the edges for many weeks, usually up until at least the first snow comes and they get plowed off the roads. Lower trafficked roads might take longer. 

I went down Willow Grove road this Saturday, for example, and I was over 40 mph on the chip and seal part without any problems (the fast, 50+ mph part is paved). I did have to stay in the wheel track, though.




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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

D&MsDad said:


> It's a little hard to blame the DOT when people are always screaming about their taxes. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Chip and seal is annoying, yes, but it doesn't "ruin" my riding.


paving practices that create actual safety issues for cyclists (aka taxpayers) is more than 'annoying.'

there are 'drifts' of accumulated aggregate 6-8 inches deep on some of my routes. hitting this stuff at speed could seriously ruin your day.


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## SauronHimself (Nov 21, 2012)

When I lived in Hunterdon County, NJ my township started using chipseal approximately 15 years ago. It cost 1/4 that of using traditional asphalt to repave the roads. From that standpoint it was a smart move, but it sucked for both cyclists and motorists alike.


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## D&MsDad (Jul 17, 2007)

Trek_5200 said:


> It definitely ruins riding. Just come off a decent and catch and unexpected pile of this stuff. A cyclist can easily fall off his bike. Last week I was riding and a pick up truck went by, one of those loose stones flew and hit me pretty hard. Hurt like a mother. Luckily it didn't impact a sensitive area.





Oxtox said:


> paving practices that create actual safety issues for cyclists (aka taxpayers) is more than 'annoying.'
> 
> there are 'drifts' of accumulated aggregate 6-8 inches deep on some of my routes. hitting this stuff at speed could seriously ruin your day.


Well, then, I guess your only option is to ride somewhere else.

Look, riding around with your head up your you-know-what can ruin your day. I understand that, and I've suffered the consequences when I've ridden that way (including one spill on fresh chip and seal). However, chip and seal is a fact of life. It is not an unforeseeable occurrence. 

I, personally, am not going to let it ruin a ride. You can make your own choices.




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## 9W9W (Apr 5, 2012)

I hit a patch of chipseal this past weekend out by the Delware Water Gap. Was descending at a good clip, I saw chip seal, decided to take it straight on, centered bike and still slipped when I hit that sh$t! recovered (you know how fast these things happen)

when you go through patches of chip seal at 20mph on a bike, ounce for ounce, the best adrenaline rush out on the market.


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## B_arrington (Jan 4, 2013)

SauronHimself said:


> When I lived in Hunterdon County, NJ my township started using chipseal approximately 15 years ago. It cost 1/4 that of using traditional asphalt to repave the roads. From that standpoint it was a smart move, but it sucked for both cyclists and motorists alike.


They've been using chip seal in Hunterdon county for longer than that. I moved there in 1986, and they were resurfacing the roads with chip seal since at least that time in Clinton township, High Bridge, and Tewskbury. I always wondered why the signs said "fresh oil" when it was really more like tar. 

I now live on Long Island, and sometimes wish they would use chip seal. We have so many roads here, the highway dept budget (and taxes) are high but they can't really repave what's needed. In theory, it would be great to extend the life of the roads using chip seal vs. the constant patching or a complete resurface/repave job.


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## robnj (Sep 26, 2013)

B_arrington said:


> They've been using chip seal in Hunterdon county for longer than that. I moved there in 1986, and they were resurfacing the roads with chip seal since at least that time in Clinton township, High Bridge, and Tewskbury. I always wondered why the signs said "fresh oil" when it was really more like tar.
> 
> I now live on Long Island, and sometimes wish they would use chip seal. We have so many roads here, the highway dept budget (and taxes) are high but they can't really repave what's needed. In theory, it would be great to extend the life of the roads using chip seal vs. the constant patching or a complete resurface/repave job.


The "fresh oil" signs are even older. This comes from the days when they used to spray a waste oil slurry on dirt roads to keep the dust down. Now a days you spill a drop of home heating oil and a hazmat team is dispatched and you get the DEP on your back.

Funny you went from Hunterdon to LI. I came from LI to Hunterdon, back in '82. I dont know how you ride a bike out there.... ugh


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## D&MsDad (Jul 17, 2007)

robnj said:


> The "fresh oil" signs are even older. This comes from the days when they used to spray a waste oil slurry on dirt roads to keep the dust down. Now a days you spill a drop of home heating oil and a hazmat team is dispatched and you get the DEP on your back.


I remember that clearly - they were still spraying oil on the dirt roads in the town we lived in (N. Wis.) when I was 12 or so (1976-ish). I'd say about 1/2 the roads in town were paved - and many of the paved roads had been paved very recently when we moved there.




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## stoked (Aug 6, 2004)

Is this chip seal crap you guys referring to is what they did to road between Piermont and Nyack last winter? If so I hate that surface. All of it ends up by the shoulder where we ride.


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## cnardone (Jun 28, 2014)

Stoked, 
I believe the answer to your question is yes.

Trek, 
Not sure the last time you were up Willow Grove to Lake Welch, but the area is all but clean. There are a few patches on Gate Hill but mostly where side roads meet. Up past the merge with Gate Hill seems totally clean. 

cmn


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

Fantastic. I plan to be there in the coming days.


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## Trek_5200 (Apr 21, 2013)

Rode Call Hollow, GateHill,Camp Hill, Cedar Flats, etc. All are good now, unfortunately my brain refused to accept that, so couldn't get myself to ride full intensity. Hopefully now that I've done a full route I can be a bit more aggressive. These are certainly some of the nicest roads Rockland has to offer and allows one to feel they've gone to the country if only for a few hours.

Now how do we get Rockland to pave the area of County Road 106 by the highway as it approaches GateHill Road to get paved. It's been in a rather disgusting state for longer than I can recall.


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