# What is an entry level bike?



## jsidney (Aug 24, 2011)

Is 1,400.oo still in the entry level price range?

What if I will not be racing but will from time to time cover long distances and the bike or walking will be 95% of my transportation?


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## jfd986 (Jul 17, 2011)

*First try at answering*

Alright I'm going to take a crack at this (rubs palms together) . Never tried to answer anyone's question before, I'm new too and I only have 280 miles on my bike.

I asked myself this question before, and what I found was this:

"Entry level" can be a subjective term based on the user's intended use and budget for a bicycle. For example, for commuting, I bought a 1983 fuji monterey. It's a 38-lb lugged steel miracle with suntour shifters and dia-compe brakes. I say miracle in the sense that it's a miracle I can get it out the door. At least it used to be like that, but now I'm faster, why ? Because the speed of a bicycle is 5% weight and "aerodynamics" and fanciness, and 95% motor. I would refer you to the velominati's list of Rules wherein Rule #5 really stuck in my head.

From the perspective of the modern bicycle market, I believe that "Entry level" means a bicycle (road bicycle for our purposes) that is judged price-wise as entry level (in Georgia, $539 and up) and contains what are known as entry-level components. Below is the best-of-my-abilities description of entry-level components:

- Light steel frame (not aluminum, certainly not carbon)
- Groupset Shimano 2200, 600 SIS (Sora is the next step up, then Tiagra, then 105, then Dura-Ace, then (pauses for effect)....Di2) I do'nt know what the campy equivalents are, but I think that Campagnolo Record is equivalent to 105? Someone please confirm on this
- Aluminum rims (regular lacing, not radial [not that it makes a massive difference] and not an ounce of carbon in them)
- Back wheel is fairly spaced from the seat tube (in faster road bikes, the rear wheel will have less clearance from the seat tube, and in really-fast racing bikes there will be a slight cutaway within the seat tube where the back wheel will roll in)
- Standard road tires and tubes, nothing fancy

If you have seen a $1400 bike in mind, it is likely NOT entry level. HOWEVER, for that kind of coin, you can likely purchase a much better used road racing bicycle on craigslist, made with much better components.

Define "Long distances" ... I recently learned that, to a cyclist on this forum, 40 miles is like the yawn and stretch when getting out of bed in terms of effort. I'm getting noticeably better at my 5.5 mile bike to the gym but it still takes a while and I still struggle. My suggestion to you if you don't want to break the bank is to buy a bike like mine and be happy, or buy my bike and let me look for another one (I'll probably just buy another beater since I enjoy a good tune-up) or buy a real light one from a local bike store and get it fitted professionally. Whatever you buy make sure it fits, i.e. seat tube (cm) = inseam (cm) x 0.65 and you know, shouldn't be a giant pain in the butt to ride.


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## jsidney (Aug 24, 2011)

jfd986 said:


> Alright I'm going to take a crack at this (rubs palms together) . Never tried to answer anyone's question before, I'm new too and I only have 280 miles on my bike.
> 
> I asked myself this question before, and what I found was this:
> 
> ...


Thanks, for the post.

Here is how I define long distance. I did 100 miles on a $150.00 bike to get to one of the closest cities to me, when there I did another 50 miles doing things, then did 100 miles back, the trip back had tons of problems, things where falling apart and I lost multiple rear tubes. I had to push the bike back to that city to get tubes so I covered the same ground twice on the return trip.

I ride a minimum of 7 miles 5 days a week going to the post office, I also go grocery shopping on a bike using a backpacking day pack.

If I am going to keep a bike and walking as almost all of my transportation I need to start thinking of a good bike in the future.

Right now I am very poor but in a couple of months a large chunk of money is going to be coming my way and then in the spring and even larger chunk will arrive. Right now I have to invest in my business so I will be doing without a car.

Since my bike is my car I am thinking getting something fairly good make sense. It does not have gas expense and is cheaper than a car. 

My plan is to figure out the best way to spend 1-1.5k on a reliable bike that meets my needs. I need a quick education first however.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Touring bike.

Most brands still make at least one or two models. One of my friends picked up a Jamis Aurora Elite not too long ago. It ships with a rear rack and will accept a front rack - very convenient. If you're going to be using it as transportation and covering long distances, panniers are awesome. Off the top of my head, I know Kona and Salsa have fairly well-equipped touring bikes available too.

Check out sheldonbrown.com for more than you ever wanted to read about bikes. His favorite kind of riding was touring, and a lot of his articles address that.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

A bike that's inexpensive enough that you won't feel guilty selling on craigslist once you figure out what you really want/need.

Take a look at the Jamis Aurora and Aurora Elite.


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## jsidney (Aug 24, 2011)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Touring bike.
> 
> Most brands still make at least one or two models. One of my friends picked up a Jamis Aurora Elite not too long ago. It ships with a rear rack and will accept a front rack - very convenient. If you're going to be using it as transportation and covering long distances, panniers are awesome. Off the top of my head, I know Kona and Salsa have fairly well-equipped touring bikes available too.
> 
> Check out sheldonbrown.com for more than you ever wanted to read about bikes. His favorite kind of riding was touring, and a lot of his articles address that.


I am considering a touring bike and might end up with one.

Here is a question. If all the stuff I need to carry will fit in my daypack will a touring bike still be easier on my during the long trips than a commuter or other type of road bike?


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## jsidney (Aug 24, 2011)

jorgy said:


> A bike that's inexpensive enough that you won't feel guilty selling on craigslist once you figure out what you really want/need.
> 
> Take a look at the Jamis Aurora and Aurora Elite.


I do have a bike right now. I am patching it together and it is a little too large for me.

I will look at the bikes you mentioned.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

jsidney said:


> I am considering a touring bike and might end up with one.
> 
> Here is a question. If all the stuff I need to carry will fit in my daypack will a touring bike still be easier on my during the long trips than a commuter or other type of road bike?


I think I don't understand your question.

Are you saying you're sticking with an amount of stuff you can fit in your daypack? Or that you're wearing the daypack?

For me, a long ride with a load in panniers is much more comfortable than a long ride with a load on my back. I think it may not effect my endurance much one way or the other, but often, the thing that starts to really mess up the last part of a long ride is pain, or a discomfort that gets bigger and bigger. So whether or not I can fit all my stuff in a messenger bag or daypack, if what I'm carrying is heavy or I'll be riding for a while, I'll choose panniers.


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## jsidney (Aug 24, 2011)

AndrwSwitch said:


> I think I don't understand your question.
> 
> Are you saying you're sticking with an amount of stuff you can fit in your daypack? Or that you're wearing the daypack?
> 
> For me, a long ride with a load in panniers is much more comfortable than a long ride with a load on my back. I think it may not effect my endurance much one way or the other, but often, the thing that starts to really mess up the last part of a long ride is pain, or a discomfort that gets bigger and bigger. So whether or not I can fit all my stuff in a messenger bag or daypack, if what I'm carrying is heavy or I'll be riding for a while, I'll choose panniers.


I am carrying a daypack.

Panniers might be easier and I will explore that.

When I did back to back 100's with 50 in between I was able to do it with the daypack with no discomfort from the pack, I was just slow and the bike started having problems. I took the trip better than the bike did. 

I would like to be a little quicker when doing distance without creating additional discomfort and for the bike to not start having issues on the return trip. I think just about any good bike would have handled the trip better than the bike I was using did.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

You must have no nerve endings, the strength of an ox, or carry next to nothing with you. :wink5: I notice, and dislike it, pretty quickly if I have a lot of stuff on my back.

I don't know if switching to panniers will effect your speed. It might even slow you down - supposedly width of an aero profile is more important than height, and panniers widen what most people present to the wind. I think switching to panniers would improve my speed - like I said, I get uncomfortable with a load on my back. I'm usually faster when I'm comfortable. I'm also happier.  If I was doing a half hour trip to the post office and the grocery store, I don't think there'd be much effect on my speed, but I still chose panniers when I was riding half an hour to school on top of a hill. I get a lot more tired with a load on my back if I get out of the saddle to pedal. With good form, I've found this to be a reasonable way to ride laden bikes too, not just a stripped-down race setup.

If you're not sure if you want to do panniers, get a bike that will accept a rack but doesn't ship with one. If you decide later that you want to get the weight off your back, it'll be a lot easier than if you have to tinker a lot, and the result will probably be more stable.


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## jsidney (Aug 24, 2011)

AndrwSwitch said:


> You must have no nerve endings, the strength of an ox, or carry next to nothing with you. :wink5: I notice, and dislike it, pretty quickly if I have a lot of stuff on my back.
> 
> I don't know if switching to panniers will effect your speed. It might even slow you down - supposedly width of an aero profile is more important than height, and panniers widen what most people present to the wind. I think switching to panniers would improve my speed - like I said, I get uncomfortable with a load on my back. I'm usually faster when I'm comfortable. I'm also happier.  If I was doing a half hour trip to the post office and the grocery store, I don't think there'd be much effect on my speed, but I still chose panniers when I was riding half an hour to school on top of a hill. I get a lot more tired with a load on my back if I get out of the saddle to pedal. With good form, I've found this to be a reasonable way to ride laden bikes too, not just a stripped-down race setup.
> 
> If you're not sure if you want to do panniers, get a bike that will accept a rack but doesn't ship with one. If you decide later that you want to get the weight off your back, it'll be a lot easier than if you have to tinker a lot, and the result will probably be more stable.


I think the backpack does not bother me I am an experienced backpacker. I have done the Appalachian Trail and two summers ago I did a walk from Iowa to Oklahoma.

I grew up hauling hay, running cross country, wrestling up to the collegiate level, and backpacked most of my life. I have never gotten out of shape.

Trips of 100 miles and longer on a bicycle is new to me but riding 17, and 25 miles M-F I think made the trip doable. The load I am carrying every day is not that heavy on a bike as well. I go to the post office with 10-20 small packages each day and this does not way much more than ten pounds most of the time. I pass a grocery store on the way home so I can shop every other day or even daily if I wanted so the load stays small.

When I go to other towns I am just taking a change of clothes and a handful of things to bring along.


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## psycleridr (Jul 21, 2005)

Surly. long. haul. Trucker

Or cross check. Just check out Surly bikes. Great do it all


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## Peter_leo (Aug 26, 2011)

Whichever bike you decide to get, make sure you spend some time with the shop ensuring it fits you correctly.


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## gtpharr (Oct 6, 2008)

jsidney said:


> I am carrying a daypack.
> 
> Panniers might be easier and I will explore that.
> 
> ...


Just curious if you did the back to back 100s plus 50 all in one day or if was an overnight trip?


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

jfd986 said:


> Alright I'm going to take a crack at this (rubs palms together) .* Never tried to answer anyone's question before, I'm new too and I only have 280 miles on my bike.* (1)
> 
> I asked myself this question before, and what I found was this:
> 
> ...


I wasn't even sure where to begin with this one, so I bolded and numbered the worst of the misinformation....

(1) Not to be rude, but you've never answered a question and you've only ridden 280 miles - what makes you think you SHOULD try to answer his question? It's kinda like counting the links on an old chain and blindly cutting the new chain to that length - who knows if the old chain was sized correctly? In other words, how do you know the answers you have are the right ones?

(2) Completely wrong. Most entry-level bikes are aluminum. There are a FEW steel entry-level road bikes. Some carbon bikes can even be considered entry-level if they have cheap enough components. (entry-level = new bike. Used is just used.)

(3) You paused for effect, but it wasn't the effect you were looking for. You mixed 'ancient' technology in with new components. 600SIS is old. Very old. It is currently called Ultegra, and falls between 105 and Dura Ace. Here's the list from cheap to expensive:


2200/2300 - entry level
3300 (Sora) - entry level
Tiagra - high entry level
105
Ultegra
Ultegra Di2
Dura Ace
Dura Ace Di2

(4) Very, very wrong.

Campagnolo:
Centaur - 105-ish
Athena - Ultegra-ish
Chorus - Dura Ace-ish
Record - just above Dura Ace
Super Record - Way above Dura Ace

Shimano fans will, of course, move the Campy levels down a notch, with Athena being the 105 equivalent.

(5) Many, many entry-level road bikes have radially-laced front wheels...

(6) $1400 can still be entry-level. It depends on the frame material vs. components. True, it's stretching the bounds of "entry-level"... The cheapest carbon bike in a model line equipped with Tiagra could be considered an entry-level bike.

(7) For $1400, you're getting a new 105 or Ultegra bike. It's going to be hard to find a MUCH better used bike on Craigslist with MUCH better components. Plus, it'll be used. You're possibly inheriting unknown problems, and it has someone else's sweat and funk all over it. Once you get to the $1400 range - and you're a relative beginner - it's much better to buy a new bike. No parts should fall off, but if they do, there's a warranty to cover it.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

jsidney said:


> Is 1,400.oo still in the entry level price range?
> 
> What if I will not be racing but will from time to time cover long distances and the bike or walking will be 95% of my transportation?



As for your bike recommendations....

Jamis Aurora
Raleigh Clubman
Raleigh Sojourn
Raleigh Grand Prix
Surly LHT (Long Haul Trucker)

Basically, I would recommend a touring bike or a steel road bike for your intended purpose. $1400 in that arena will get you a high entry-level or low mid-range bike. In other words, a bike that does what you want it to and has decent enough components to not be breaking down on you.


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## jsidney (Aug 24, 2011)

gtpharr said:


> Just curious if you did the back to back 100s plus 50 all in one day or if was an overnight trip?


I rode to Tulsa which is about a 100 mile trip for me. I arrived early and waited for the department of revenue to open. I then tried to find people I knew there to meet them for lunch but was unsuccessful in contacting them. I found a cell phone store to get my sim replaced than searched for a bike store. I got lost several times and burned up a lot of distance as I really don't know my way around Tulsa, I had only mapped how to get to the department of revenue. 

I started the trip home and was a few miles out of the city and got a flat rear tire. It was 107 degrees and I pushed the bike back. I bought some fix a flat, I think it was a bad idea as it didn't work as I tried to leave town again. I went looking for a place in a suburb called Sand Springs to get a tube. I had discovered a bike walking trail and asked people where I might try. Ended up at K-Mart then went to Wallmart. This burned up a ton of time. I finally got two tubes, this is only the third time I have put tubes on a bike and I did some things wrong.

I got about 10 miles out from a town called Cleveland with a 3k population and lost another tube. I changed tubes again and found a place this tiny had a Wall Mart. I got another spare tube and changed tubes again. This one got me home and I arrived as the sun was coming up. During the trip home I was about 10 miles out of a tiny little place called Fairfax and one of the cheap plastic pedals broke and I started having shifting problems. I could not go into the tallest gear and shifting was awful in all the others.

I left home at 1am to ride when it was cool and got home at sunrise the next day so it was overnight but would not have been near as long if I didn't start having problems.

After this trip I had tube problems over and over again. One thing was in common with all the tube failures, none occured on concrete but on asphalt and all where when temperatures where above 105. 

Suddenly after many tubes the problem went away. I am wondering if I was getting tube pinch or something and the heat agravated the problem.

I held up on the trip but I don't want to do it again on a junk bike.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

*Taking a moment to be "that guy"*

Did you find the thing in your tire that caused the first flat?

Much of the time, whatever it is is still in there. So if you just swap the tube, you're setting yourself up for another flat.

What's the bike you have now? It sounds like probably not something that will work for you long-term... but a lot of this has to do with maintenance too.


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## jsidney (Aug 24, 2011)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Did you find the thing in your tire that caused the first flat?
> 
> Much of the time, whatever it is is still in there. So if you just swap the tube, you're setting yourself up for another flat.
> 
> What's the bike you have now? It sounds like probably not something that will work for you long-term... but a lot of this has to do with maintenance too.


I never found the tube problem, it just quit happening.

It is a Walmart Huffy.

I used someones ancient Takara that is too tall for me that seems to be a much better bike.

The Takara is possibly the best bike I have ever ridden. I have an 86 Trek 520 being shipped to me and I am guessing it will become the best I have ever tried.


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## jsidney (Aug 24, 2011)

I am going to guess just about anything I get after I make up my mind is going to be far far far better than anything I have ever had.

I will not be able to determine if it is a good bike or not since all I know are old model or junk bikes.

I do remember the bikes I used in High School didn't fall apart even though they where not good bikes. The junk bikes today seem to be more junky than they where in the past.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I think this is true.

The mission of Schwinn used to be to get a quality bike into every American's garage. They were heavy, but not necessarily bad bikes.

Things have changed, and the bottom of the market has to be a lot cheaper to cost the same dollar amount.

Anyway, it's nice that the flats quit happening. Here's what I do when I get a flat tire...

First, I always match the label on my tire to the location of the valve stem. To some, it's a little anal or precious. But I originally ran into the idea as a way of being able to consistently mount the tire the same way, and know how it was mounted.

So I'm riding along. My rear wheel starts to feel a little sloppy. I glance down at the place where it contacts the ground and whoa! it's all spread out, much more than usual. Damn. So I stop, take the rear wheel off the bike, and remove the tube. I pay attention to how it's oriented and try not to flip it around relative to the wheel. I look and see if there's an obvious problem. Usually there's not. So I put some air in it and then look for the hole. Sometimes I can actually see it when the tube is stretched. Usually I can hear it, and so I can usually locate it by feeling for escaping air, even if I can't see it. I make sure by putting my finger over it. Did the sound stop? Cool, at least now I know where the hole is. Because I've maintained the orientation of the tube with respect to the wheel, I can find more-or-less the part of the tire that must have been penetrated (assuming I found a small hole on the outside of the tube.) I can often see the piece of debris if I know where to look. I pull it out with my fingers, feel around the inside of the tire for anything else, replace the tube, and go on my merry way. I like to find the debris first because I don't have any desire to cut my finger finding it, and sometimes these things are glass or a staple. Also, sometimes I miss them. So feeling is more of a double check.

There are a couple of other ways tubes can get damaged in a wheel. Pinch flats are one. This is when there's not enough air in the tube, and the weight of the bike and rider actually squish the tire so the rim goes all the way to the ground. The tube gets pinched between the tire bead and the inside of the tire. Usually it looks like two elongated holes on the top and bottom of the tube. Snake bites are another - when the tube is caught between the rim and the tire somewhere when it's inflated. To avoid this, I add air to some lowish pressure, but enough to fill the tire. Then I look for anywhere where the tube is sticking out. Finally, the rim itself can damage the tire. There's tape on the bed of the rim to prevent the sharp edges of the spoke holes from doing this, but if it's dislodged, the tube can be damaged. I like traditional fabric tape the best for my tires, but there are plenty of options.

If you get a lot of flats due to debris, try a tire with flat protection. They're more expensive, but it does reduce flats.


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## jfd986 (Jul 17, 2011)

*Dang*



PlatyPius said:


> I wasn't even sure where to begin with this one, so I bolded and numbered the worst of the misinformation....
> 
> (1) Not to be rude, but you've never answered a question and you've only ridden 280 miles - what makes you think you SHOULD try to answer his question? It's kinda like counting the links on an old chain and blindly cutting the new chain to that length - who knows if the old chain was sized correctly? In other words, how do you know the answers you have are the right ones?
> 
> ...


Sorry about that everyone, it's clear that whatever research I've done into cycling is completely inadequate. I won't be answering questions in the future, PlatyPius sorry for wasting your time.


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## heybrady (Jul 3, 2011)

AndrwSwitch;3529886 Finally said:


> This. I burned thru 2 tubes and 1 patch before realizing the rim tape was just a little bit over the edge of a spoke hole. I tried moving the tape (cheap plastic band) then put in a new tube. Same problem. Finally went out earlier this week and bought the cloth tape and it feels much much better. Rode twice on the patched tube and had no issues.
> 
> The worst part was it wouldnt be flat until several hours later.


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## CyclingVirtual (Apr 10, 2008)

I would say up to 1400 sounds about right


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

jfd986 said:


> Sorry about that everyone, it's clear that whatever research I've done into cycling is completely inadequate. I won't be answering questions in the future, PlatyPius sorry for wasting your time.


Don't be offended by the grumpy response to your post. I found it inaccurate as well, but better than what I knew when I first got back into cycling. So I considered the way I was when I joined the forums as well. If you're a cycling nut like myself, you'll stay here, post more, and later on look back at a post like this and laugh. 
I think cycling should be fun for all. And definitely there are more positive ways to correct errors.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

jfd986 said:


> Sorry about that everyone, it's clear that whatever research I've done into cycling is completely inadequate. I won't be answering questions in the future, PlatyPius sorry for wasting your time.


You didn't waste my time.

I know that I often come off as an asshat in my posts. My point was that you should question everything you read. You got all of that information somewhere, and a lot of it was wrong. Hell, I post information that I'm sure of sometimes and it's wrong...it happens.

I tried to use your post as a means of correcting bad public information. ie: it was the information I was irritated with, not you.

Don't let my asshattery stop you from posting.


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## gtpharr (Oct 6, 2008)

no comment


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

jfd986 said:


> Sorry about that everyone, it's clear that whatever research I've done into cycling is completely inadequate. I won't be answering questions in the future, PlatyPius sorry for wasting your time.


Some posters are just rude. Here or anywhere. Danger of the net. 

Entry level is really an opinion. For Warren Buffet it might be a Dogma with just regular Dura Ace. For some it may be a GMC Denali from Wally World. 

Personally to me aluminum is entry level. The GMC I started with was below that. A Secteur Sport was my "entry level" bike but a Secteur Elite could be too.


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## mvallejo (Aug 31, 2011)

Trek 520's are phenomenal touring bikes. Comfortable for long trips too. Just get some paniers and you're all set. Right at your price range too.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

boqr said:


> very true


Only 5 more useless posts like this and you can post all the pictures and spam you want!


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## gtpharr (Oct 6, 2008)

PlatyPius said:


> Only 5 more useless posts like this and you can post all the pictures and spam you want!


Very true.


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## blue lotus (Aug 22, 2011)

PlatyPius said:


> As for your bike recommendations....
> 
> Jamis Aurora
> Raleigh Clubman
> ...


Platy, my LBS is a Raleigh dealer, but clearly it sells many more Trek and Specialized and Bianchi bikes than Raleighs....would these be your recommendations if I wanted an all purpose cross-type versatile bike, for some endurance riding, leisure riding, errands around town, going to the tennis court, and doing some non-paved roads...I as thinking of 32c wide tires, which Clubman doesn't have but Port Townsend does...as a newbie, I don't think I have the skills to take a 25c tire on non paved roads, have a $1K budget...my LBS has a 2011 57 cm Clubman on sale tho (LBS doesn't seem to carry Sojourn, which looks like a bike I'd like to test ride)...


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## onelink360 (Nov 27, 2011)

*is my bike good? deal or no deal?*

hi everyone i find this forum to be extremely helpful and i hope you guys can help me out here am looking to find out weather or not i got a good deal on my new bike now normally i was riding a cheap mountain bike witch i got for free :-D so you know how that goes lol but i saved up some money and started hunting for a new bike used but in got shape and decent and i came across a NYCB frame aluminum white bike witch i loved and bought it for 300$ am going to load up a vedio so you guys can see it and let me know what you think


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## red elvis (Sep 9, 2010)

An entry-level bike is the cheapest bike that a company sells.


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## pmpski_1 (Oct 7, 2009)

gtpharr said:


> Very true.


Agreed. Now I need 3 more useless posts.

jsidney I like your style.


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## MaveN (Oct 15, 2009)

sweet, this thread should help me out..


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