# Bad experiences with chinese carbon frames?



## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

*Caveat emptor...*

looks legit to me.


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## ntb1001 (Jan 19, 2010)

I have bought frames from them, as well as many parts..stems, seatposts. handlebars, and I've never had any problems at all. Aside from some communication issues due to the language differences, they have been great to deal with.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

has anyone confirmed that greatkeenbike.com is in fact the same as greatkeen.com.cn (dengfu sports equipment). I have a feeling they are not the same and that greatkeenbike is suspicions (it's the one with the pinarello knock-off).


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## Urb (Jul 19, 2010)

I'm still having troubles with this. Was it greatkeen you bought from directly or someone else? Email address of the person you were comunicating with?


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## Zootv (Jul 13, 2010)

stevesbike said:


> has anyone confirmed that greatkeenbike.com is in fact the same as greatkeen.com.cn (dengfu sports equipment). I have a feeling they are not the same and that greatkeenbike is suspicions (it's the one with the pinarello knock-off).


They are different ... very different. This has been well documented in the Chinese carbon frame thread several times.


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## Urb (Jul 19, 2010)

Starting to make sense.

dengfu = http://www.greatkeen.com.cn

greatkeen bike = http://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/home/home.php

Typical chinese marketing ploy. Have a similar name as a credible manufacturer and hope the buyer isn't aware.

My impression is Dengfu is good and I'll probably purchase from them soon. I think I'm just going to avoid greatkeen bike.


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## zender (Jun 20, 2009)

Some of that looks like it could be shipping damage, but that delamination in the head-tube and whatever that one is of that looks like a Luffa sponge - that's just bad manufacturing.

This reminds me of stories of the Old West, before any consumer protection laws, when people could sell anything with any sort of made up label, no regard for copyright, safety, etc. 

-edit: I've bought 2 bike frames from DengFu over the past 18 months or so. My experience has been good. The frames decent quality. Not exceptional, but nothing like you're showing there.


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## SilentAssassin (Jul 29, 2010)

Just would like to base this thread on bad experiences with ordering chinese carbon frames from these ebay sellers and other sellers from China. Be nice to consolidate it in one thread, as the other thread is way too large. This way we will all know the risk of putting down $500 on one of these frames. I know there definitely seem to be more satisfied than unsatisfied buyers, and that some sellers really have made a good name for themselves, I can think of 3 good sellers just from reading the thread. This is not to criticize them at all, but to get a good gauge of what kind of problems people can run into whether it be quality issues, shipping issues, return issues, payment problems, etc. Thanks.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Someone (with a OTL name got a counterfeit version of the greatkeen frame): 

n Spain them have purchased several units of the bicycle frames that offers greatkeenbike, many of them are cracked, broken, badly painted, a s bicycle frames, not recommend them.

http://www.foromtb.com/showthread.ph...1#post10520161

if, because there are many more photos. cooked a second request and do not know what to do. I think the Chinese are laughing at them.

First order:

http://www.foromtb.com/showthread.ph...39194&posted=1 # post10539194

Second order:

http://www.foromtb.com/showthread.php?t=638177&page=10


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## Spursrider (Jun 8, 2010)

I was just about to order Pinarello Prince lookalike frame from greatkeenbike. 

I wonder what happened because their website is no longer accessible and they're not answering e-mail either.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Spursrider said:


> I was just about to order Pinarello Prince lookalike frame from greatkeenbike.
> 
> I wonder what happened because their website is no longer accessible and they're not answering e-mail either.


Look at StevesBike post- make sure you have the right address.


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## ClarkinHawaii (Feb 28, 2010)

I ordered from *Jenny at HongFu* about 2 months ago. 

Got the FM001, 2 forks, paint job, 2 bottle cages, headset, replaceable rear mech hanger, and seat clamp for US$480 shipped. This is less than most of you will pay because I specified forks with aluminum steerer, which is cheaper than carbon steerer.

Before I ordered, I read through the first thread and half of the second thread on this subject. Hongfu seemed to be the original vendor mentioned, and by far the biggest seller. Out of maybe 1500 posts that I read, there were three complaints from dissatisfied customers.

I asked Jenny about these 3 cases, because I did not want to be unhappy guy number 4. She answered immediately (she always answers emails within 1 day, without fail). She had a reasonable explanation for each of these situations--enough so that I felt reasonably safe in ordering from her. So I ordered.

Let me say that all of these Chinese vendors exhibit a strong reluctance to making good on any screw-ups--partly I think it is cultural; and partly it is the high cost of shipping from there to here: My package cost Hongfu the Yuan equivalent of US$140 to mail. Truth be told, I think they shoot themselves in the foot by being penny-pinchers at the cost of customer satisfaction, recommendations, and repeat business. But they all do it. I wrote Jenny several emails where I tried to explain to her how important it is to have satisfied customers recommending her company to prospective buyers. I think she gets the point, but is strongly influenced by that cultural influence I mentioned before.

My order (which required a custom paint job) was a week late in being shipped--some problem at the factory. Otherwise it was 100% correct, everything fits together properly, everything was included in the order. Jenny also gave me a free carbon seatpost (presumably to make up for the delay in shipping). 

All told, I am delighted with my purchases. I would order from Jenny again without reservation. BUT I should point out that by my initial inquiries regarding customer complaints, I identified myself to Jenny as a potential trouble-maker--and perhaps special pains were taken with my order.

Since my order arrived, I have continued to read these threads. I have seen DengFu come onto the scene as perhaps the number 2 seller. They started out with no complaints; and then as they sold more, some dissatisfied customers started voicing complaints--some really gross stuff--but then it appears there are two different companies using the name GreatKeen (DengFu and Greatkeenbikes). Miracle-Trade is an unknown to me--I have sent this guy Jack Chen 2 different emails, and he has failed to answer, so he's off my radar. This Miracle-trade seems to get disproportionate liberal coverage at the new Cheapcarbonbikes website, which leads me to believe he is a paid advertiser.

All told, I think a new customer's best chance for success lies with Jenny at HongFu. But you have to tell Jenny exactly what you expect and how picky you're going to be. Then ask her if she can provide what you want. Then if it's not immaculate, it's on her. That's what I will do when I order again.

EDIT: I just remembered--I had to take the frame to LBS and have them chase the threads in the bottom bracket. It had not been masked properly before painting, paint/clearcoat had gotten in, and I could not install the BB. Cost $20.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Thanks for the post *ClarkinHawaii*- very helpful. 

:thumbsup:


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## ClarkinHawaii (Feb 28, 2010)

Coolhand said:


> Thanks for the post *ClarkinHawaii*- very helpful.
> 
> :thumbsup:


 I like to give credit where credit is due--and vice versa  
Any chance to make this thread a sticky up with the other Carbon threads? Otherwise it might migrate downward and new buyers/victims might not realize it exists.


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## LC (Jan 28, 2004)

What is "Jenny at HongFu" website and eBay ID?


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## nealric (Jul 5, 2007)

It seems that it is not altogether uncommon that Chinese frames will arrive with minor imperfections that do not prevent the frame from being used but may require some amount of work or alteration. 

For example, a friend of mine ordered a frame where the headset races were improperly sized. He fortunately had access to a machine shop and was able to fix the problem. I've also heard of gummed up bottom bracket threads, problematic weave, and other small issues. Despite the trouble, he got an incredible ride for the price- $1,400 for a 16 lb bike that rides quite well and is absolutely gorgeous. 

Personally, one of my pet peeves about name-brand bikes is that you end up as a rolling advertisement for every single component you bought. At the moment, the Chinese specials are pretty much the only reasonable option for those who want a clean-looking carbon frame.


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## ClarkinHawaii (Feb 28, 2010)

LC said:


> What is "Jenny at HongFu" website and eBay ID?


Sorry, I should have thought of that.

[email protected]

http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/

http://www.e-hongfu-bikes.com/

Also, one thing I forgot to mention before--if some other vendor quotes you a lower price than Jenny for the same stuff, tell her and she will match it if she can . . . I think.:ihih:

I think she sells on ebay, but I dealt direct, so I don't know her "handle". Maybe Jenny8088???? Paypal is method of payment in any case.


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## mdime (Apr 15, 2010)

ClarkinHawaii said:


> All told, I think a new customer's best chance for success lies with Jenny at HongFu. But you have to tell Jenny exactly what you expect and how picky you're going to be. Then ask her if she can provide what you want. Then if it's not immaculate, it's on her. That's what I will do when I order again.


You can tell yourself it's on her if it's not immaculate but in reality it's still not. If there's a serious disagreement and she's unwilling to rectify the situation you don't have any more recourse other than trying to get payment back from Paypal. 

Having successfully ordered from Jenny myself I can vouch that she does seem willing to correct problems. That said,I think it's unreasonable to place high quality demands on these frames from China that just cannot (or will not) be met. The prices are low but the risk is high and can't be ignored.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

I have to wonder whether some of the imperfections that are being mentioned would also show up on name brand frames if it was not for their paintjobs that hide these??


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## ClarkinHawaii (Feb 28, 2010)

mdime said:


> You can tell yourself it's on her if it's not immaculate but in reality it's still not. If there's a serious disagreement and she's unwilling to rectify the situation you don't have any more recourse other than trying to get payment back from Paypal.
> 
> Having successfully ordered from Jenny myself I can vouch that she does seem willing to correct problems. That said,I think it's unreasonable to place high quality demands on these frames from China that just cannot (or will not) be met. The prices are low but the risk is high and can't be ignored.


All true.


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## ClarkinHawaii (Feb 28, 2010)

FTR said:


> I have to wonder whether some of the imperfections that are being mentioned would also show up on name brand frames if it was not for their paintjobs that hide these??


I have had the same thought--No telling how bad my finish is under the paint--but what I don't see can't hurt me (as long as it's not structural, which none of these cosmetic blems are) :biggrin5:


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## SilentAssassin (Jul 29, 2010)

With a few horror stories of people having to pay $200 to ship it back, and how these frames seem to be sized smaller and have some what of an unorthodox geometry, I don't think it's a good deal any more. It's not exactly something you could be proud of when you're out riding. 

That and since it is a no-name, there isn't really anything you can do if the frame fails. I definitely think there are shills here for these chinese sellers here by the way. If they could produce a frame to the exact specification / geometry of an expensive cervelo frame then that would be good. But they can't it seems. That's what I don't get. If I'm paying $500 for a knock-off and taking all these risks buying from people that can't speak english...why not at least give me an exact unbranded cervelo frame? Seems to me like these chinese sellers don't want to step on the big bike brands' toes?


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

SilentAssassin said:


> With a few horror stories of people having to pay $200 to ship it back, and how these frames seem to be sized smaller and have some what of an unorthodox geometry, I don't think it's a good deal any more. It's not exactly something you could be proud of when you're out riding.
> 
> That and since it is a no-name, there isn't really anything you can do if the frame fails. I definitely think there are shills here for these chinese sellers here by the way. If they could produce a frame to the exact specification / geometry of an expensive cervelo frame then that would be good. But they can't it seems. That's what I don't get. If I'm paying $500 for a knock-off and taking all these risks buying from people that can't speak english...why not at least give me an exact unbranded cervelo frame? Seems to me like these chinese sellers don't want to step on the big bike brands' toes?


I have had to spend money to send back brand stuff too when the sizing of stuff was not what I expected. You order from OS and that stuff sometimes happens.
And where are the small sized frames??
I just got 2 drawings for frames from Dengfu. It says right on the drawing exactly what the dimensions should be.
The only issues I have seen with the sizing come from people who do not understand about ETT vs actual TT length.

And I have seen plenty of people ripped off by other people who can speak English.


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

FTR said:


> I have had to spend money to send back brand stuff too when the sizing of stuff was not what I expected. You order from OS and that stuff sometimes happens.
> And where are the small sized frames??
> I just got 2 drawings for frames from Dengfu. It says right on the drawing exactly what the dimensions should be.
> The only issues I have seen with the sizing come from people who do not understand about ETT vs actual TT length.
> ...



+1....Thank you...I wondering the same thing....

Sized small? Manufacturers measure frames differently... It's as simple as understanding geometry charts.

As for the non-english speaking comment; it's a global ecomony.....Most of my bike purchases in the last year of been from non-english speaking countries

and I'm at a complete loss why someone wouldn't be proud of riding ANY bike...


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

there are some less risky ways of getting an inexpensive frame. Pricepoint for example sells a carbon frame for $419 + $40 shipping, comes with 5 year warranty. They have a range of frames at different prices. 

http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/19145-180_SETSS9-278-Frames--/Sette-Sasso-Carbon-Road-Frameset.htm

http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/19144-180_SETPR9-278-Frames--/Sette-Primo-Carbon-Road-Frameset.htm


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## jkuo (Mar 30, 2008)

Don't you ride a Motobecane? Bikesdirect's business model isn't that different, go straight to the manufacturer and cut out the middleman. The only difference is that your frame is from Taiwan. BTW, it's just a bike, riding a $10K Dogma doesn't make someone better than someone riding a no name chinese carbon bike. Also, if you're into brand names and that somehow defines who you are as a biker, I'm not sure if Motobecane was the right brand to get. 

The frames aren't sized smaller, they list every sizing spec on their website/ebay. A millimeter is always a millimeter; if you choose to simply go by the listed "size", that's your fault. All the big brands are sized differently; a 54 cm Specialized is different than a 54 cm Cervelo which is different from a 54cm Pinarello. 





SilentAssassin said:


> With a few horror stories of people having to pay $200 to ship it back, and how these frames seem to be sized smaller and have some what of an unorthodox geometry, I don't think it's a good deal any more. It's not exactly something you could be proud of when you're out riding.
> 
> That and since it is a no-name, there isn't really anything you can do if the frame fails. I definitely think there are shills here for these chinese sellers here by the way. If they could produce a frame to the exact specification / geometry of an expensive cervelo frame then that would be good. But they can't it seems. That's what I don't get. If I'm paying $500 for a knock-off and taking all these risks buying from people that can't speak english...why not at least give me an exact unbranded cervelo frame? Seems to me like these chinese sellers don't want to step on the big bike brands' toes?


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## Urb (Jul 19, 2010)

SilentAssassin said:


> With a few horror stories of people having to pay $200 to ship it back, and how these frames seem to be sized smaller and have some what of an unorthodox geometry, I don't think it's a good deal any more. It's not exactly something you could be proud of when you're out riding.
> 
> That and since it is a no-name, there isn't really anything you can do if the frame fails. I definitely think there are shills here for these chinese sellers here by the way. If they could produce a frame to the exact specification / geometry of an expensive cervelo frame then that would be good. But they can't it seems. That's what I don't get. If I'm paying $500 for a knock-off and taking all these risks buying from people that can't speak english...why not at least give me an exact unbranded cervelo frame? Seems to me like these chinese sellers don't want to step on the big bike brands' toes?


Buyer beware.

If you do the research you will find there are some credible and not so credible sources out there. $500 for a frame is not a lot of money so not a big risk. If you get burned once and get one frame that's good you're still way under a similar retail frame in north america.

If they had the Cervelo moulds you would see a flood of Cervelo clones but I'm sure those are well kept secrets.

They're probably thinking "why can't he speak Chinese?"


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## nealric (Jul 5, 2007)

SilentAssassin said:


> With a few horror stories of people having to pay $200 to ship it back, and how these frames seem to be sized smaller and have some what of an unorthodox geometry, I don't think it's a good deal any more. It's not exactly something you could be proud of when you're out riding.
> 
> That and since it is a no-name, there isn't really anything you can do if the frame fails. I definitely think there are shills here for these chinese sellers here by the way. If they could produce a frame to the exact specification / geometry of an expensive cervelo frame then that would be good. But they can't it seems. That's what I don't get. If I'm paying $500 for a knock-off and taking all these risks buying from people that can't speak english...why not at least give me an exact unbranded cervelo frame? Seems to me like these chinese sellers don't want to step on the big bike brands' toes?


I would be very proud of a China carbon bike. You can't just walk into a bike store and pick one up- you have to work for one. I don't really regard them as knock-offs because they do not represent themselves as being the big manufacturer bike (fake pinarello scam notwithstanding).


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## ClarkinHawaii (Feb 28, 2010)

OK, on ebay, Amazon, even Walmart.com there are ratings where you can see what kind of experience other buyers have had with a certain product/vendor.

Dealing direct we get a lower price but no formal ratings.

I suggest that this forum and others like it constitute a rating system of sorts. I have gone to great lengths to show [email protected] every time somebody has a complaint.

No telling about the other sellers, but I know Jenny realizes that any screw-up is going to be on the internet for the world to see. Screwing a customer is going to hurt the screwer a lot more than the screwee in the long run, in terms of bad advertising and lost future business.

This forum is our best buyer protection. But, as has been pointed out, it ultimately is a matter of choice for the seller. If they decide they want to screw you and don't care about the bad advertising, they're pretty much free to do so. And it can happen.

Edit: As of right now, the Carbon Frames V2 thread that just closed had 132,450 reads. That represents a huge pool of potential buyers. People have said on here that the carbon frame sellers don't really care about individual orders, that they're doing us a favor selling bikes one at a time, what they really want is big orders. Well . . . I want to make a million dollars this year, but a hundred thousand sure beats eating cat food.


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## Spursrider (Jun 8, 2010)

Coolhand said:


> Someone (with a OTL name got a counterfeit version of the greatkeen frame):
> 
> n Spain them have purchased several units of the bicycle frames that offers greatkeenbike, many of them are cracked, broken, badly painted, a s bicycle frames, not recommend them.
> 
> ...



I've been reading the Spanish threads with Google Translate but can only understand about half of was being discussed. :mad2: 

This is what I think happened : There was a group buy (in Spain) of the Pinarello knock-off from greatkeenbike. About 12% of the frames received from the first order had major defects. I'm not sure what happened to the 2nd order. Cancelled??


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## BernyMac (Jul 13, 2010)

stevesbike said:


> has anyone confirmed that greatkeenbike.com is in fact the same as greatkeen.com.cn (dengfu sports equipment). I have a feeling they are not the same and that greatkeenbike is suspicions (it's the one with the pinarello knock-off).


greatkeenbike is not the same as great keen (Deng-Fu). Greatkeenbike have sold some Spaniards (on a group buy from another forum in Spain)some pretty crappy carbon fiber knock-offs.


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## SilentAssassin (Jul 29, 2010)

Urb said:


> Buyer beware.
> 
> If you do the research you will find there are some credible and not so credible sources out there. $500 for a frame is not a lot of money so not a big risk. If you get burned once and get one frame that's good you're still way under a similar retail frame in north america.
> 
> ...


I don't know about that, $500 is pretty close to a decent used tarmac frame. Plus, $500 is $500 towards a nice bike. Not worth rolling the dice imho, especially when you do get a good frame, it's not like it's necessarily a good frame by design regardless.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

SilentAssassin said:


> I don't know about that, $500 is pretty close to a decent used tarmac frame. Plus, $500 is $500 towards a nice bike. Not worth rolling the dice imho, especially when you do get a good frame, it's not like it's necessarily a good frame by design regardless.


No way I would pay anyone $500 for a used CF bike if I did not know them but to each their own.
You obviously have no interest in this topic really so why keep "contributing"?


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## SilentAssassin (Jul 29, 2010)

FTR said:


> No way I would pay anyone $500 for a used CF bike if I did not know them but to each their own.
> You obviously have no interest in this topic really so why keep "contributing"?


That's exactly what I'm saying. You don't know these chinese resellers, and you definitely do not know their quality control testing.


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## ultraman6970 (Aug 1, 2010)

Just in case this guy http://www.cyclingyong.com/index.php has the pinarello frame also, he is asking 700 bucks for it but the shipping is free


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

SilentAssassin said:


> That's exactly what I'm saying. You don't know these chinese resellers, and you definitely do not know their quality control testing.


As I said, you have no interest in this topic and so have to wonder why you continue to post.
These threads have now been going for a number of years.
There is little anecdotal evidence to show that for the most part these people are anything but genuine businesses with a good product that they have been proven to stand behind.
Sure there are very limited cases that have occurred where the sellers have been dodgy but these cases are VERY limited.

I have seen many many more cases of people local to me who have ripped off the consumer. I would suggest that you would see just as many, if not more close to you. To suggest that there is a higher likelihood of this sort of thing happening in China is ignorant to say the very least. You are aware that China is one of the biggest manufacturers of HIGH QUALITY carbon fibre items in the world??

Again, I question why you continue to post in a thread that you have no real interest in or made any positive contribution to. We get it. You don't want to buy one. Have fun on your 2nd hand Tarmac.


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## config (Aug 16, 2002)

Before everyone starts bad-mouthing this company, I've ordered from Ms Hu at Greatkeenbike and received what visually looks like a decent frame. Unfortunately for me, the fork I received did not correctly fit a properly sized 700c wheel. I contacted them and they are sending me a replacement fork. They also told me it was not necessary for me to return the fork (good on them). I am still awaiting the delivery of the new fork which is why I still have not ridden my new ride.

A few of my friends were helping me build it up and I have to admit, all of us were pretty impressed. In my opinion, this company is legit. It takes some patience to communicate with them but that is to be expected. FWIW, I built this bike up with SRAM Red and with the bad fork the bike weighs 15.2 lbs. I am dying to ride this and will definitely post my review once I get the replacement fork.



BernyMac said:


> greatkeenbike is not the same as great keen (Deng-Fu). Greatkeenbike have sold some Spaniards (on a group buy from another forum in Spain)some pretty crappy carbon fiber knock-offs.


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## Italianrider76 (May 13, 2005)

SilentAssassin said:


> That's what I don't get. If I'm paying $500 for a knock-off and taking all these risks buying from people that can't speak english...why not at least give me an exact unbranded cervelo frame?


You sound like one of those obnoxious, annoying (usually American, sorry to say) dumb asses you hear in foreign countries shouting in a really loud voice "Doesn't anybody speak English here?!?!"


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## config (Aug 16, 2002)

Italianrider76 said:


> You sound like one of those obnoxious, annoying (usually American, sorry to say) dumb asses you hear in foreign countries shouting in a really loud voice "Doesn't anybody speak English here?!?!"


I apologize if I find this funny, but I've lived in 5 different countries (I'm in a foreign country now) and I often see that. I have to say, Italy was my favorite place. I surely miss it.


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## SilentAssassin (Jul 29, 2010)

Italianrider76 said:


> You sound like one of those obnoxious, annoying (usually American, sorry to say) dumb asses you hear in foreign countries shouting in a really loud voice "Doesn't anybody speak English here?!?!"


I think Lance broke your heart too many times? China isn't a foreign country to me...da.


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## SilentAssassin (Jul 29, 2010)

FTR said:


> As I said, you have no interest in this topic and so have to wonder why you continue to post.
> These threads have now been going for a number of years.
> There is little anecdotal evidence to show that for the most part these people are anything but genuine businesses with a good product that they have been proven to stand behind.
> Sure there are very limited cases that have occurred where the sellers have been dodgy but these cases are VERY limited.
> ...


I'd trust a 2nd hand tarmac from a local person over a potentially bad defective frame from China.

The discussion of this thread is the problems with chinese carbon frames. Are you selling these chinese frames? Why do you care so much if I continue this discussion...after all, what I am talking about is exactly what the thread topic is about.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

SilentAssassin said:


> I'd trust a 2nd hand tarmac from a local person over a potentially bad defective frame from China.
> 
> The discussion of this thread is the problems with chinese carbon frames. Are you selling these chinese frames? Why do you care so much if I continue this discussion...after all, what I am talking about is exactly what the thread topic is about.


No it is not.
You have never once indicated that you have had *ANY *experience with these frames (positive or negative) and all you have done is post bigotted, ignorant comments on a topic that you do not really seem to know anything about.

I am Australian, not Chinese and the only real interest I have is that I am considering buying one of the frames.


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## SilentAssassin (Jul 29, 2010)

FTR said:


> No it is not.
> You have never once indicated that you have had *ANY *experience with these frames (positive or negative) and all you have done is post bigotted, ignorant comments on a topic that you do not really seem to know anything about.
> 
> I am Australian, not Chinese and the only real interest I have is that I am considering buying one of the frames.


Actually all the comments I've posted is true. If you dig through the old threads..which I did because I was looking to get a carbon chines frame...here is what you'll find:

1) You could get scammed
2) You are taking a risk where you could get a defective frame
3) If you dig in the old chinese carbon threads, there have been instances where people never got the frame, the frame came damage(dangerous to ride), the wrong frame or size was sent...and there have been instances where people did lose a few hundred dollars
4) There have been statements that the frames are sized smaller as well on a lot of their popular frames.
5) The frames are not to original factor spec...you are not getting a Cervelo or a frame like a Cervelo...you are getting a no-name design frame, questionable geometry, and questionable quality control. Basically if that frame cracks while you are going 45mph down hill...not good.
6) These people are not a known company...you don't know where they cut costs either. 

Alot of these issues above are what people discuss or have actually experienced. There probably are a lot more out there but who wants to admit they got swindled? Just saying, like a poster here, buyer beware.

That said there have been lots of positive experiences from these frames on these boards any way.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

SilentAssassin said:


> 4) There have been statements that the frames are sized smaller as well on a lot of their popular frames.
> 5) The frames are not to original factor spec...you are not getting a Cervelo or a frame like a Cervelo...you are getting a no-name design frame, questionable geometry, and questionable quality control. Basically if that frame cracks while you are going 45mph down hill...not good.
> 6) These people are not a known company...you don't know where they cut costs either.


4. There are a lot of people here who have NFI how to read a geometry chart.
5. Nobody I have seen thinks that they are. They are similar but are not the same. And if my real Cervelo cracks while I am doing 45km/h downhill I will be OK????
6. Just because they are not a "known company" in the good ole US of A does not mean they are dodgy.
You can probably name a heap of companies from your country that are well known locally that I have never heard of either.
How many well known Chinese companies can you name??

Yes buyer beware but that is a catch cry for ANYWHERE. Locally, interstate, overseas, whatever. You need to be careful. And I can tell you some stories about dealings with 2 well known bike companies who have tried to scam their way out of replacing frames under warranty. One of those is a big US company.


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## Urb (Jul 19, 2010)

And this is the whole idea behind the discussion.

It's more likely that someone will take time to voice complaints over praise and I want to hear them. The fact that people seem so adamant about the validity of china frames speaks volumes to me and there is certainly enough posts to make a reasonably informed purchasing descision.

Buy or not it's all good but I'll be sure to post my experiences in a china frame purchase in the months to follow.


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## ColoRoadie (Aug 5, 2010)

The frame I recently purchased was not perfect and I posted it's imperfections. But, living in Colorado has it's benefits, and I've been able to take very long looks at name brand frames whose pricetag for frame Aline is four times what I paid for frame and full campy 11 group....and have seen exactly the same problems on several of them.

I'm feeling pretty good about my purchase thus far. If something fails my expectations, I will post it....but then Ive read in this forum about many failed name brand frames....but have not seen any failed china frames (have I missed them?). Sure, there are people who know nothing about carbon and have never bought an unpainted pie e of carbon anything who get upset about weave not lining up to perfection. If they really think it lines up perfectly under the paint if the $8k frame they've drooled on....then they are naive. 

My one real complaint is that the headset bearings would not fit into the cups without using a dremel. I'm not talking about removing some resin from manufacturing...I had to do a decent amount of grinding on the cups which is concerning....but then I did not expect a $500 frame/fork/headset/cages purchase to be perfect and I didn't bother to see if other bearings would fit either. I simply broke out the dremel and told myself it's only a bike....


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## SilentAssassin (Jul 29, 2010)

It's only a bike....well if that's the mentality today what happened to the good old days when people actually valued the American dollar. 

I'll tell you what happened, let's outsource everything, let's industrialize the food industry and produce McDonalds food..lets make people think they are getting a good deal because they will pay less money. Alas, the last laugh is on you, because it's only a bike, it's only a burger(and new strains of ecoli finding it's way to your grocery store), it's only the U.S. economy, it's only increased violent crimes...wait a second...what happened to the good deal?

Not saying I necessarily support the BD business model, but at least BD seems to employ some people over here...as well as specialized, cannondale, and other big names. Granted their stuff isn't made here, but at least they are creating jobs. Those chinese carbon frames are not doing anything for you or the people around you. Sometimes you just got to wake up and realize what's the real deal. I saw a Scattante CFR with full ultegra for pretty dang cheap @ 1700 with a coupon code at performance bike. Very nice bike. 

Which brings us to another problem: Price. People don't realize it but once you start building up that $500 frame with a drivetrain, you are probably going to end up spending just as much as you would on a fully equipped carbon bike that you can get on sale at performance. And at least the performance bike has a full warranty.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

SilentAssassin said:


> 5) The frames are not to original factor spec...you are not getting a Cervelo or a frame like a Cervelo...you are getting a no-name design frame, questionable geometry, and questionable quality control. Basically if that frame cracks while you are going 45mph down hill...not good.


Since you cite Cervelo as a comparison, is it necessarily a bad thing to not get "a frame like a Cervelo"? ;-) 

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=2946594#post2946594 

Not all brand-name manufacturers are the same, some seem to accept or be plagued by all sorts of design and manufacturing issues regardless of the amount they spend on name-branding and advertising. 

For the record, I ride exclusively hand-made French road frames.


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## ClarkinHawaii (Feb 28, 2010)

SilentAssassin said:


> Not saying I necessarily support the BD business model, but at least BD seems to employ some people over here....


Where is "over here"? China, Taiwan, or . . . ? (Sorry, I missed it)


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## ColoRoadie (Aug 5, 2010)

SilentAssassin said:


> It's only a bike....well if that's the mentality today what happened to the good old days when people actually valued the American dollar.
> 
> I'll tell you what happened, let's outsource everything, let's industrialize the food industry and produce McDonalds food..lets make people think they are getting a good deal because they will pay less money. Alas, the last laugh is on you, because it's only a bike, it's only a burger(and new strains of ecoli finding it's way to your grocery store), it's only the U.S. economy, it's only increased violent crimes...wait a second...what happened to the good deal?
> 
> ...


I think you have rambled your way through about 12 different topics on that one, not really making any points or offering any reasonable solutions to any of them. As to the topic of this thread, if Trek has their bike frame made in China and then imports it here charging $2000 for it...it is your belief that my buying that versus the frame direct from china employs americans and betters our nation. It is my belief that I've given more for this country than you ever will, and if the local bike industry only makes money on the groupset, tools, tires, cables etc that goes into my bike...I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. It it makes you pull your hair out and cry 'oh my poor nation'....so much the better.

As to your assertion:


> People don't realize it but once you start building up that $500 frame with a drivetrain, _blah blah blah_


I assure you...I have more degrees than you have, all of which are math and engineering oriented and I've applied that knowledge to my build. I'm coming out very well ahead of your 'on sale performance bike'....and I get the paint my way and with better components than your blue light special. If the American companies you cry over cared enough to employ Americans to build their frames rather than mark a $300 chinese frame up to $2000+ so that the CEO can own a nicer boat...I might care whether or not that CEO gets my money. As it is....I don't.


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## SilentAssassin (Jul 29, 2010)

ColoRoadie said:


> I think you have rambled your way through about 12 different topics on that one, not really making any points or offering any reasonable solutions to any of them. As to the topic of this thread, if Trek has their bike frame made in China and then imports it here charging $2000 for it...it is your belief that my buying that versus the frame direct from china employs americans and betters our nation. It is my belief that I've given more for this country than you ever will, and if the local bike industry only makes money on the groupset, tools, tires, cables etc that goes into my bike...I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. It it makes you pull your hair out and cry 'oh my poor nation'....so much the better.
> 
> As to your assertion:
> 
> ...


My points are obvious, but I suppose you might need another degree to understand them. FYI, there are a lot of stupid engineers out there. History has some great examples of this. But let's not make this some kind of snob contest.

And if you had applied your apparently extensive math/engineering wisdom on your chinese carbon purchase, are you some how responsible for the geometry of your frame rather than just choosing the size? Newsflash, you don't need multiple engineering oriented degrees to size yourself to a bike.

Why do you use Trek as an example? There are plenty of other great deals to be had than the Scattante I used as an example. Some LBS close out deals will easily beat your build by a mile both in the price and performance aspect. Plus if you get tired of your bike, your resale value is non-existent.

The paint your way is a nice plus, and was one of the reasons that definitely caught my interest. I was looking to go with a livestrong theme like one of the posters here went. Very good point for a person that absolutely needs a custom look.

I could care less about the CEO as well. That is another thing we both can agree on.

Still the scams, the defective frames that posters here returned on their own dime which cost over $200 ship, the language barrier and miss communication which led to incorrect orders...etc. is enough to sway a sensible person to look the other way.


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## BernyMac (Jul 13, 2010)

Define sensible?
Perception is everything. Some people like it and that is that. Trying to sway another person or even tell them about how you feel about the whole Chinese carbon frame issue is an exercise in futility. If you don't like it and have any sort of misgivings about other people's beliefs keep it to yourself lest you find yourself in a foolish argument where both sides believe they are right and the other is wrong.

You cannot argue with a belief.


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## karlo (Mar 23, 2010)




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## erj549 (Jul 26, 2008)

ColoRoadie said:


> It is my belief that I've given more for this country than you ever will...


This. BTW, does Trek import good bikes?


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## SilentAssassin (Jul 29, 2010)

^I am guilty of none of the above. The issues I've discussed are from members in this forum if you read through the sticky-ed Chinese frame threads. They are not rumors. Receiving the wrong frame, defective frames, and never receiving the frame are exactly the problems that people in this forum have encountered when buying these generic carbon Chinese frames online.


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## Rob81 (Aug 10, 2009)

For all the ones who say be aware, chinese bikes are scum...my full set and a spare chinese carbon bikes.
All of them rides better than my previous ones (which were S***cialized, aka Merida, aka still made in China & Taiwan)

<table style="width:194px;"><tr><td align="center" style="height:194px;background:url(https://picasaweb.google.com/s/c/transparent_album_background.gif) no-repeat left"><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/massarob/BicicletteMaggio2010?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.ggpht.com/_z-YesgBikEo/S_puxXCfCzE/AAAAAAAACW8/S7nzRel-0iE/s160-c/BicicletteMaggio2010.jpg" width="160" height="160" style="margin:1px 0 0 4px;"></a></td></tr><tr><td style="text-align:center;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:11px"><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/massarob/BicicletteMaggio2010?feat=embedwebsite" style="color:#4D4D4D;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none;">Biciclette maggio 2010</a></td></tr></table>


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## ColoRoadie (Aug 5, 2010)

SilentAssassin said:


> ^I am guilty of none of the above. The issues I've discussed are from members in this forum if you read through the sticky-ed Chinese frame threads. They are not rumors. Receiving the wrong frame, defective frames, and never receiving the frame are exactly the problems that people in this forum have encountered when buying these generic carbon Chinese frames online.


For a guy not interested in the chinese frames and never purchased one, you sure spend a lot of time talking bad about them. You quote the few instances where things went wrong over and over again, yet I've read every post in here and those percentages are far lower than I've experienced locally with the riff-raff in the LBS's. Locals get it wrong all the time. In fact, no company in the history of man has been mistake free. 

From the time I paid until the frame/fork etc showed up at my door in Denver was 5 days, 2 of which were the weekend. My LBS tells me it takes 2 weeks to get the ritchey stem I wanted. Meanwhile I can mail order it from a dozen places for $20 less and get it in 2 days. I suppose you're going to cry me a river over the LBS I didn't hand my money to rather than mail order as well? 

American's have become lazy and most have no idea how to run a company. The days when it takes 2 weeks to receive anything are gone. Those left a couple decades ago, and yet the cycling industry as a whole are still stuck in that lazy, I only order on Monday's, mentality. Fine, you order on Monday...I'll be riding it from someone else three days before that and it will cost me less. I do try to keep my money local, but when the local business is run like that and bent on going bankrupt...I'm not interested. 

I do find it funny that you rant about how the performance bike blue light special will out perform my build "by a mile" without knowing what I've built, what it cost, and without ever having ridden one of these frames (to your knowledge). I think the previous poster nailed you pretty much on the nose....you are a troll looking to bad mouth these frames. More than likely, you are in the industry and trying to protect your job. I'm sure your scare tactics work with the soccor mom walking into the shed you work out of, but in here...there are many people riding these frames and who purchased them without all of the drama you are attempting to say exists. In other words, the facts...with pictures and testimonial are far outweighing your imaginary hobgoblins.

If the frame explodes for no reason etc, I'll be in here voicing up about it...but I have not seen any of that from others thus far...though I have with the name brands you are trying so hard to push.


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## SilentAssassin (Jul 29, 2010)

ColoRoadie said:


> For a guy not interested in the chinese frames and never purchased one, you sure spend a lot of time talking bad about them. You quote the few instances where things went wrong over and over again, yet I've read every post in here and those percentages are far lower than I've experienced locally with the riff-raff in the LBS's. Locals get it wrong all the time. In fact, no company in the history of man has been mistake free.
> 
> From the time I paid until the frame/fork etc showed up at my door in Denver was 5 days, 2 of which were the weekend. My LBS tells me it takes 2 weeks to get the ritchey stem I wanted. Meanwhile I can mail order it from a dozen places for $20 less and get it in 2 days. I suppose you're going to cry me a river over the LBS I didn't hand my money to rather than mail order as well?
> 
> ...


^I agree with a lot of what you said here. I've had issues with an LBS before. I'm pretty demanding however...maybe too demanding when it comes to my stuff. I'm not bad mouthing the chinese frames, just giving some examples. Like you said, to be fair, big brands have their issues too, but it'll probably easier to deal with the guys at an LBS then people all the way in China.

Not trying to push any brands. I have mentioned specialized, scattante, etc. I have no brand loyalty except to BikesDirect.


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## steve.lewis117 (Jul 2, 2010)

Hey all,

So new to this but have been following all previous threads regarding frames. I opted for GreatKeenBike.com and bought the Pinarello look frame and fork (RFM101), same colours as our work team and didn't want to source other decals etc!

The package arrived with little problem, however it had taken a thwack in the post and broke the rear chainstay. GreatKeen said they would replace if I sent it back, which I did. So now it has been stuck in Shenzehn City Customs since 31 Aug.

I have emailed Ms.Hu at GreatKeen but get no reply, soooo frustrating . UK Parcelforce has done as much as they can, so now I am stuck!!

Just so nobody else has to go through this cr*p!

Cheers
Link: http://www.greatkeenbike.com/main/ho...=0009:&catid=0


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## config (Aug 16, 2002)

steve.lewis117 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> So new to this but have been following all previous threads regarding frames. I opted for GreatKeenBike.com and bought the Pinarello look frame and fork (RFM101), same colours as our work team and didn't want to source other decals etc!
> 
> ...


They still owe me a replacement fork. I've been waiting for 12 days now and they haven't even shipped it yet. No replies to e-mail for several days now. Not looking good for this company.


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## SilentAssassin (Jul 29, 2010)

Did you send your fork back to them?


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## config (Aug 16, 2002)

SilentAssassin said:


> Did you send your fork back to them?


No, she said I could keep it (it's not like I can use it for anything). I'm glad because I couldv'e been out on the shipping charges too.


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## tron (Jul 18, 2004)

This thread is so irritating. The whole point (I think) was for people to post whatever bad experiences they might have had purchasing one of these no name chinese carbon frames, if any. For someone that is thinking about buying one, this could have been a good resource. Instead it turns into the same old argument. I myself nearly pulled the trigger on one of these and something like this would have assisted in my decision making. If only I had been able to figure out the paypal I would have done it. I have backed off partly because of some of te postings on the other threads. I just don't have the time to bother with the possibility that things will be kid-aligned etc.


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## SilentAssassin (Jul 29, 2010)

config said:


> No, she said I could keep it (it's not like I can use it for anything). I'm glad because I couldv'e been out on the shipping charges too.


At least you got something out of the transaction then.


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## hummina shadeeba (Oct 15, 2009)

You're the man.


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## hummina shadeeba (Oct 15, 2009)

i like his posts. he's helpful. I value his oppinion.


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## hummina shadeeba (Oct 15, 2009)

*I for one (likely among many) believe buying from china is risky*

dealing with a business so far away is dodgy - you might have to ship it back, pay for that shipping, and there's the wait time, and you take the risk of damage in shipping it here to begin with. And that's assuming you're going to get something.
After looking around alibaba for bikes it seems 8/10ths won't take an escrow service and I assume they're scams. 
Many of them have gold trading status or whatever for years and I've read they are still scams. Similar to Ebay but the seeming more dangerous Chinese version. Very dangerous. If you go to the backwoods of some poor African country I'd bet you're also more likely to get scammed there than here. It's not being ethnocentric or bigoted but looking at the obvious. And even at this point in my research it seems I was at risk of buying from Greatkeen or greetkeen which seem dodgy. Seems to me buying something in China, at least bicycles, is much riskier. I'm not a fan of everything usa but I have to hand it to her for business security.


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## FTR (Sep 20, 2006)

hummina shadeeba said:


> dealing with a business so far away is dodgy - you might have to ship it back, pay for that shipping, and there's the wait time, and you take the risk of damage in shipping it here to begin with. And that's assuming you're going to get something.
> After looking around alibaba for bikes it seems 8/10ths won't take an escrow service and I assume they're scams.
> Many of them have gold trading status or whatever for years and I've read they are still scams. Similar to Ebay but the seeming more dangerous Chinese version. Very dangerous. If you go to the backwoods of some poor African country I'd bet you're also more likely to get scammed there than here. It's not being ethnocentric or bigoted but looking at the obvious. And even at this point in my research it seems I was at risk of buying from Greatkeen or greetkeen which seem dodgy. Seems to me buying something in China, at least bicycles, is much riskier. I'm not a fan of everything usa but I have to hand it to her for business security.


Funniest post I have ever read.
I am not bigotted or anything so long as I dont have to deal with anyone outside of the USA.
You Yanks are a riot.


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## nealric (Jul 5, 2007)

> And even at this point in my research it seems I was at risk of buying from Greatkeen or greetkeen which seem dodgy. Seems to me buying something in China, at least bicycles, is much riskier. I'm not a fan of everything usa but I have to hand it to her for business security.


Which is why it's a good idea to buy from sellers that people have previously dealt with successfully. While there is no way to guarantee 100% that a deng-fu order will come perfectly from around the world, it's already been well confirmed that they are not a scam.


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## hummina shadeeba (Oct 15, 2009)

I'm reading through this thread hopeing this will give me enough fact and feeling to help me decide on if I should get a frame from china and if so from where. This guy...he has a picture with him in a motobecane shirt (i have the name memory of chipmunk), is helpful to me. I consider the others who are criticising him trolls...someone was throwing the troll word around. He's voicing his opinnion, all of which seems very logical and valid to me. He's smart, passionate, not susceptible to aggitation, wise beyond his years, charming, and if I were gay I might even find him a bit cute, just with bad t-shirt style.


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## cryoplasm (Jun 14, 2008)

Miss


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## hummina shadeeba (Oct 15, 2009)

*trying to look up the bigger thread about china carbon manufacturers and my computer*

shows this. Why?

Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage 

What you can try: 
Diagnose Connection Problems


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## adam_mac84 (Sep 22, 2010)

why doesn't someone just post a poll of positive/negative experiences? I order electronics china direct, and on other forums (RC specifically) people ALWAYS seem to post their negatives, but rarely their positives. it could be a poll with responses limited to what their problem was (if any) and if it was rectified, and if so by who.


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## SilentAssassin (Jul 29, 2010)

config said:


> Before everyone starts bad-mouthing this company, I've ordered from Ms Hu at Greatkeenbike and received what visually looks like a decent frame. Unfortunately for me, the fork I received did not correctly fit a properly sized 700c wheel. I contacted them and they are sending me a replacement fork. They also told me it was not necessary for me to return the fork (good on them). I am still awaiting the delivery of the new fork which is why I still have not ridden my new ride.
> 
> A few of my friends were helping me build it up and I have to admit, all of us were pretty impressed. In my opinion, this company is legit. It takes some patience to communicate with them but that is to be expected. FWIW, I built this bike up with SRAM Red and with the bad fork the bike weighs 15.2 lbs. I am dying to ride this and will definitely post my review once I get the replacement fork.


^Sending a fork that doesn't fit your wheel is pretty bad.


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## ColoRoadie (Aug 5, 2010)

Oh yeah, catastrophic. I'd seriously consider slicing my wrists if such a monumental and earth shattering catastrophe happened to me. Like when the american company I bought my groupo from sent me a 'new' set that was quite obviously used. Or when the american company I bought my stem from sent me the wrong size. Or when another american company handed me a 10sp campy chain when I asked for an 11 speed...and that one was in person. 

WHY, OH WHY...can't the rest of the world be as perfect as I am? Never a mistake in all of my years....just perfection incarnate walking the streets with all of you little people. Thank god for SilentAssassin....he understands my level of perfection. He alone has achieved it as well. 

I'll say this. I've read of Treks and many other brands in this forum self destructing and damn near killing their riders. Why have I not read of a single chinese frame doing that? Here is a thread whose very intent is to discover failures of this kind...and all we have is a fork that was shipped wrong..which they replaced and let him keep the old one. Strange..none of the american's who screwed my orders up let me keep a damn thing.

Where are the failures like the Trek on the general discussion forum right now? All of these chinese bikes built up and nobody has face planted when they snap in half like that Trek? Well, I guess we'll have to be content with how horrific it is that they put the wrong fork in the box. Damn foreigners.


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## ohvrolla (Aug 2, 2009)

C'mon now, for every Chinese carbon frame built up how many Treks do you think are bought? Huge difference in the number of Treks on the road compared to no name Chinese.


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## SilentAssassin (Jul 29, 2010)

Yah, I'd say getting the wrong fork is pretty bad. Then again there have been people who ordered these chinese frames, and they get the wrong frame....so that's even worse, lol.


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## ColoRoadie (Aug 5, 2010)

SilentAssassin said:


> Yah, I'd say getting the wrong fork is pretty bad. Then again there have been people who ordered these chinese frames, and they get the wrong frame....so that's even worse, lol.



Where are they then? The only guy I see in here complaining about the Chinese manufacturers has never actually had his hands on one. If you look through the thousands of posts in the stickies up top, you find a LOT of happy customers. Yet, in this thread....where are the complaints? Sure, there are shipments that went wrong but from any of the legit sellers those seem to get fixed at least as well as any American company who make the same mistakes. If you look through this forum you will find plenty of American custom shops have screwed customers who paid up front for a frame they either didn't receive or received so screwed up they couldn't ride it. So, as I said....where are the complaints about these frames? Not the I heard about, or I've read about....second hand anecdotal versions from representatives of American cycling companies. Where are the people who have bought frames and been unhappy with them? I keep reading one guy referring to unhappy customers and yet....where are these unhappy cyclists? If a company screws me, I am very vocal about it...surely I'm not the only one. Even the guy with the wrong fork praised the bike he got and seems happy with how the snafu was handled.


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## ColoRoadie (Aug 5, 2010)

I just got off another 29 mile ride on my chinese frame. That's a few hundred miles since I put it together a couple weeks ago and can say without question that it is head and shoulders better than the Litespeed Atlas it replaced. It's not the wheels/tires, they came off the Atlas. Is the bottom of the line 11 speed Campy Athena I put on it better than the top of the line 10 speed Centaur on my Litespeed? I don't know, it's certainly good, but then so is the centaur. To me, its simply a better frame. I have yet to take a ride where my time hasn't beaten my best ever time on the Litespeed. Even the day after motocross where my legs and back were destroyed and I felt like a noodle in a saddle.... I beat my best Litespeed time on the short 20 mile loop by a minute and a half (couldn't do more than 20..I was dead). I'm not saying it won't fail me at some point, and if it does I will be very vocal about it...but at present, this bike is a thing of beauty. There is about 800 feet or so of elevation change in that ride, perhaps lighter weight is helping, I don't know. One thing I do know is the cut concrete trail is not beating my fillings loose anymore...perhaps that is contributing. I didn't expect the bike to be any faster, just perhaps more comfortable and a bit less harsh....as it turns out, it's all of the above, even though I still don't have the fit quite right.

FM027 purchased from Tony at Dengfu. - LINK


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## SilentAssassin (Jul 29, 2010)

@ Col:

Well it's nice you got the right fork as opposed to another member here who got a fork that wouldn't fit a 700c wheel. 

+ pics of you riding or it didn't happen.


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## config (Aug 16, 2002)

SilentAssassin said:


> ^Sending a fork that doesn't fit your wheel is pretty bad.


I finally got a new fork and this time it's perfect. I'm taking the bike on its maiden voyage. We'll see how it handles. I have my fingers crossed.


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## Shipley (Jun 30, 2010)

SilentAssassin said:


> @ Col:
> 
> Well it's nice you got the right fork as opposed to another member here who got a fork that wouldn't fit a 700c wheel.
> 
> + pics of you riding or it didn't happen.


I do wish you'd stop posting. I, for one, am really interested in people's experiences of these frames (that's *experience*..not opinion) and you're just clogging up the thread with your nonsense.

Can't you go and play somewhere else ?


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## SilentAssassin (Jul 29, 2010)

Check this one out:

Carbon Chinese frame = ripoff

just sayin

be careful


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## config (Aug 16, 2002)

SilentAssassin said:


> Check this one out:
> 
> Carbon Chinese frame = ripoff
> 
> ...


This was back in 2006. Apparently a lot has changed since then.


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## SilentAssassin (Jul 29, 2010)

^ But there are still scams going on from what I've read. Hard to press charges as well on someone in China.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

SilentAssassin said:


> ^ But there are still scams going on from what I've read. Hard to press charges as well on someone in China.


do you have anything useful to contribute to this thread, or are you just scanning old forum threads? The link you posted complained about the weight of the frame - go weigh a Kuota or a Ridley - many of their frames aren't the world's lightest but that doesn't equal a scam.

There is one specific thread about the counterfeit Pinarello frames and a group buy in Spain, the need to know the difference between 2 greatkeen sites, some complaints about misaligned cable guides, badly machined headset races, some poor finishes, and some issues with shipping wrong sizes. Would be helpful to keep this thread on track for current problems from people who have actually bought a frame.


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## Shipley (Jun 30, 2010)

I think he'd rather we all bought our frames from a reliable US company... like Pride Cycles...oh..hang on...... just seen the thread about them.......


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## config (Aug 16, 2002)

steve.lewis117 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> So new to this but have been following all previous threads regarding frames. I opted for GreatKeenBike.com and bought the Pinarello look frame and fork (RFM101), same colours as our work team and didn't want to source other decals etc!
> 
> ...


Did you ever get your issue resolved? I received my fork Sunday and finally was able to take the bike on a 50-mile group ride the next day. I have to admit, it's a pretty smooth ride. I have yet to take it on a familiar route but for now, I'm ecstatic about it! 

So in short, Ms Hu at Greatkeenbike came through. Some of my friends will be purchasing their frames too soon.


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