# Numbers don't add up



## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

I am looking at a new light weight but legal build and the numbers don't add up to the UCI min weight of 6800 g. Here is the component list - all high end standard stuff nothing really ultra light;

Frame	Look 586 940
Fork	HSC6 340
Headset	FSA 100
Groupset	Record 1997
Cables	Full campag set 248
Wheels	FFWD F2 carbon set 1000
QR	FFWD or A2z 110
Tyres	Fortezza Pro TriComp 540
Seatpost	E-Post 213
Handlebar	Oval R950 180
Stem	Oval R900 105
Tape	Look 100
Saddle	CX teknologika 85
Bottlecage	Look 24
Pedals Keo HM Ti (incl. cleats) 248

6214

Several points - I haven't accounted for grease used in various parts or glue for the tubs but then the frame weight is for uncut seatpost as is the forks and the cable weight is for the full uncut version. The headset is guestimate but then FSA internal headsets seem to be in the 64-84 g range.

Ok I guess a heavier wheels set can add 250 g and a heavier saddle another 50 g - even swapping the frame with the 959 will only add another 85g - hence totalling 385g additional weight which doesn't make up the 586g shortfall ... so I can't see bikes this bike can be UCI legal eventhough the components are fairly standard and used on pro bikes .... what am I missing?


----------



## laffeaux (Dec 12, 2001)

Tape weights to the frame after you build it up.


----------



## yessl (Nov 1, 2005)

85 grams for a saddle *is* ultralight. You won;t find that on many pro's bikes. Ditto for the 1000gram wheelset. Check out recent pics, most are rolling on deep section Mavic/Bontrager/Zipp/Campy that are 1300-1600grams.


----------



## Mr. Scary (Dec 7, 2005)

Are you a UCI pro? Then what do you care?


----------



## Forrest Root (Dec 22, 2006)

Mr. Scary said:


> Are you a UCI pro? Then what do you care?


The UCI is now regulating weights of bikes for recreational riders. They're now doing spot checks around the US, and if you're caught riding on a bike that weighs less than 6.8kg, they take your bike away, make you use a Mongoose, and then force you to karaoke along to the entire soundtrack from Mariah Carey's movie, *Glitter.*


----------



## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

toonraid said:


> I am looking at a new light weight but legal build and the numbers don't add up to the UCI min weight of 6800 g. Here is the component list - all high end standard stuff nothing really ultra light;
> 
> Frame	Look 586 940
> Fork	HSC6 340
> ...


Following items are ultralight (at least compare to other manufactures).
Wheels, Fork (more like close to 300g after cut), Handlebar, Stem, Cage and Saddle...


----------



## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

Laffeaux - I did account for tape, 50 + 50 =100g

yessl - As I said in OP even with heavier wheelset & saddle it still doesn't add up to the minimum limit and only get up to 6599.

Mr. Scary - I am not a racer and definitely won't be riding a small frame - its just bugging me!


----------



## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

it's pretty easy to beat the UCI weight limit these days even with pretty stock components. Some of your spec is close to weight weenie status. A protour build would have heavier stem/bar combo (more like an FSA os-115/energy setup, which seems popular), a real saddle like a fizik airone, which adds over 100 grams, and a heavier wheel setup, maybe a deeper rim like Zipp 808s (more like 1400 grams) or Mavic R-SYS tubulars also around 1400 grams.

If all else fails to get the weight legal a powermeter will give a few hundred more grams as well to the setup.


----------



## Mdeth1313 (Nov 1, 2001)

Forrest Root said:


> The UCI is now regulating weights of bikes for recreational riders. They're now doing spot checks around the US, and if you're caught riding on a bike that weighs less than 6.8kg, they take your bike away, make you use a Mongoose, and then force you to karaoke along to the entire soundtrack from Mariah Carey's movie, *Glitter.*



NICE!


----------



## STARNUT (Jun 19, 2005)

wheels and saddle are for hanging on scale but not for riding. Get the SLR with carbon rails and white cover and get some boras. 

This ought to give you something. Size medium uncut front and rear. The 586 is light, real light. This one is bone stock. As an aside.......do you _need_ to have a UCI legal bike or just _want_ one? There are not any UCI races in the US (that people around here would be racing in anyway). I race on a bike that is under 6.8 but don't do UCI races. You can ignore the last statement if you are in europe.










Starnut


----------



## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

Sweet looking ride!!
What kind of pedals do you run?


----------



## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

Starnut - can you post the pic - my server blocks imagebanks!


----------



## STARNUT (Jun 19, 2005)

At cpark, its not mine..........but it is for sale :wink5:. Anything but Looks would be sacrilege.

At toon........pic attached 6.920kg. Also were you useing quoted or actual weights they numbers seem really round for actual numbers. Even if you are using actual, these things typically always add up to more than the sum of their parts. Hows that go: matter can never be created or destroyed, unless you are building a bike. It that case all bets are off :lol:

Starnut


----------



## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*no pedals..*

That bike will be hard to pedal.


----------



## iliveonnitro (Feb 19, 2006)

Good luck finding wheels at 1000g that actually are 1000g. Add the FD clamp (not included), cables, skewers, headset spacers, a rideable saddle, and magic weight and your bike will, for sure, be over the limit.

bike mass = sum(all parts) + magic weight.

It never weighs exactly what each component weighs. It's one of Newton's mysteries.


----------



## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

iliveonnitro said:


> Good luck finding wheels at 1000g that actually are 1000g. Add the FD clamp (not included), cables, skewers, headset spacers, a rideable saddle, and magic weight and your bike will, for sure, be over the limit.
> 
> bike mass = sum(all parts) + magic weight.
> 
> It never weighs exactly what each component weighs. It's one of Newton's mysteries.


No problem finding the wheelset that weighs less than 1000 grams.
You just have to have $$$$ and no problem riding the tubular.
Tune Hubs: Mig/Mag = (75grams/162grams) = 75+162 = 237grams
16/20 spokes: CX-Ray (4.35grams per spoke) = 156 grams + 20 grams nipples = 176 grams
Lew Rim (less than 280grams) or Reynold DV UL at 280 grams. = 560 grams

Total comes out to 973 grams.
Less than 1000 grams and descent durability unless you weigh over 220lbs....


----------



## RelevantAaron (Oct 16, 2007)

Didn't see the bike computer, powertap, SRM etc., that probably takes you to the UCI limit? SRM with BB is about 860 grams....


----------



## nrspeed (Jan 28, 2005)

OP- why is it buggin you that the build is BELOW UCI weight

The headset is actually supposed to save 40 grams since it doesn't require the expander.


----------



## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

nrspeed said:


> OP- why is it buggin you that the build is BELOW UCI weight


Well Pro's are supposed to use top of the range equipment such as frames, gruppo and wheelsets - they are also usually on the smal frames and manufacturers tell us it is the same as what you see in the shops - so how come the weights don't add up, even if you use heavier wheels and saddle the total still falls below 6.8 and if you look closely enough at frames in race you will actually see that some only have 1 bottle boss!

Could it be that pro frames/forks are actually made a little heavier?


----------



## Cyclo-phile (Sep 22, 2005)

I read an interesting story once about a mechanic who would drop ice cubes in the frame right before taking it to the UCI for a weight check. The bike would lighten up in the first hour of racing and leave water droplets behind it.


----------



## nrspeed (Jan 28, 2005)

The Credit Agricole Pro team is using the 595 which weighs ~100 grams more than that frame. Add real wheels for racing, stock brakes, aluminum bars, a real saddle and they hit the weight no problem. 

Rock Racing will also be on Look 595's next year- with SRAM Red no less.


----------



## rensho (Aug 5, 2003)

toonraid said:


> Well Pro's are supposed to use top of the range equipment such as frames, gruppo and wheelsets - they are also usually on the smal frames and manufacturers tell us it is the same as what you see in the shops - so how come the weights don't add up, even if you use heavier wheels and saddle the total still falls below 6.8 and if you look closely enough at frames in race you will actually see that some only have 1 bottle boss!
> 
> Could it be that pro frames/forks are actually made a little heavier?


It is very rare that the frames only have 1 set of bosses. Case in point is last year in the TdF, they specifically called out Rass' special climb bike that only had 1 set, specially made.

Bikes these days are easily built at the UCI weight. Pro builds are often having to use heavy common components to offset things like super light wheels. You'll see lead tape under the water bottle cage, or attached elsewhere on the bike to come to weight.
Not sure if we see a single pro riding on a light saddle. They seem to have no issues riding that heavy Arione, or some of the heavier, older, selle italia. Dig up some of the old pics of Lance. He runs a common, heavy saddle.
This year, the SRAM Red guys will have to add more lead, as that groupo is a lot lighter than DA.


----------



## bidaci (Apr 12, 2005)

toonraid said:


> *the numbers don't add up*
> 
> Frame	Look 586 940
> Fork	HSC6 340
> ...


Your right, your numbers equal 6230


----------



## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

a steel cassette can add a nice chunk, then there's gel bar tape, heavier saddle, post, bar and stem, 2 bottle cages, and using actual weights will add quite a bit, especially if you don't use 170 cranks.


----------



## PigmyRacer (Oct 3, 2007)

Why would you waste your money on an expensive, lightweight saddle, pedals, wheels etc... for a bike that you want to build to the UCI limit? 

You might just want to tape a chain inside your seatpost, that should add plenty of weight. Thats what I know a lot of the CSC guys do because the R3SL and the Zipp climbing wheels are so light.


----------



## toonraid (Sep 19, 2006)

Calification - I was comparing the build to pro bikes - similar build but perhaps heavier saddle to the tune of 50g + maybe a little heavier wheel to the tune of 150 g or so, also downgrade the pedals to steel instead of ti so that adds another 40 grams and the whole bike still falls short of UCI at 6470 even a chain ain seatpost will only push it up to 6730.

My beef is that I think some pro bikes are not standard and perhaps beefed up coz I can't see how they can meet UCI weight limit with their builds.


----------



## erik b (Nov 20, 2007)

Your numbers still don't add up....an Arione is 145-150 grams heavier than your listed weight for the saddle you are planning to use not 50. Also quite easy to add 2-300 grams on a wheelset.


----------

