# Is this bike good for a first time road bike owner/rider?



## pine138 (Jul 6, 2013)

I know this comes up time and time and time again and I hate to be that guy, but I saw this ad on kijiji and was wondering whether its a good choice or not. 

Amazing Custom Built Norco CCR Single Speed - City of Toronto Bikes For Sale - Kijiji City of Toronto Canada.

The frame is 52cm which is within the range for my height. 

I have been riding mountain bikes all my life and have been trying to get into road biking. But alas, with all my university debt I dont have much money to spend. I have about $700 saved up, which was not enough for even the low level bikes at the 2 LBS that I went to. 

This bike seems to be nice. A decent fit. I was wondering if you guys had any suggestions. 

The other one I was looking at is a tad bit out of my price range, but im sure I could try and bargain it down a little?

52cm TREK 1.2 ROAD BIKE with Shimano 105/Ultegra Drivetrain - Oshawa / Durham Region Bikes For Sale - Kijiji Oshawa / Durham Region Canada.

Thanks again guys. 
Sorry for being "that guy"


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## Randy99CL (Mar 27, 2013)

I don't know what the exchange rate is today but think both those are overpriced.
I see multiple reasons for not buying either of those.

What does a new Trek or Spec or Giant cost there?


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## gte105u (Aug 12, 2012)

pine138 said:


> I know this comes up time and time and time again and I hate to be that guy, but I saw this ad on kijiji and was wondering whether its a good choice or not.
> 
> Amazing Custom Built Norco CCR Single Speed - City of Toronto Bikes For Sale - Kijiji City of Toronto Canada.
> 
> ...


You really need to narrow down what you are looking for, because those two bikes are COMPLETELY different. The first one is a single speed, is that what you want? If so, you should have a decent number of single speeed options for new for less. The first one is also a flat-bar bike. That makes this more into the hybrid range than road bike. You can get a very decent new hybrid for the same price or less than this. With the rear carbon stays, that is an area prone to issues. All this said and done, I would say unless you needs are very specifically matched to the first one it does not seem like a great choice or value to me.

The second bike seems like a decent possibility. Is the $750 US or Canadian? I don't see the year listed, but given it is a 9 speed Ultegra it is decently old. $750 US may be a touch high, but not out of line depending on condition. First and foremost, figure out what you want. No bike is a good value if you don't end up liking it in a month. Second, fit is key. Get over there and ride it if you are interested. Take someone who knows what they are doing, or take it to a shop. Make sure it is in good shape and see how it feels. Take a pump and pedals with you (trust me, I have had to use my own when test riding a bike before). Lots of people out there trying to scam someone so be careful. I will say that for a beginner, you either need to get close with people who can help you or think hard about saving up more and buying new. The value you get in the service from a LBS is big. And if a flat-bar hybrid is an option, you can likely get a new one for your budget so keep that in mind. Good luck.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

1st one - No.

It's not a road bike.

If you want an urban cruiser - then OK.

2nd one. OK if it fits you and is in good condition.

The market is a little overpriced here in TO. I don't see anyone getting a 105 road bike new under $1500.


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## areFish (Jun 10, 2013)

That Trek looks to be a 2008 frame with upgraded older stock components. From what I found a new 2008 1.2 had Sora / ST-2300 components and an 8-speed cassette. It retailed for $770 US.


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## Randy99CL (Mar 27, 2013)

Obviously, the whole point of buying used is to get a great bike for way less than a new one.
Those are both frankenbikes that are priced close to what new costs. Not worth it.

Go to as many shops as you can, surely there is something new (last years' model, etc.) on sale somewhere. Or Bikes Direct has decent road bikes for about $450US and up, if you know enough to assemble and fit them.

And we keep repeating that buying at a shop and getting the bike fitted to you are very important to a new rider.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

OP is in Toronto, meaning the US retailers are probably out of the question because of their shipping methods, and costs. That is if they even deign to ship to Canada at all.

OP I'd agree the Trek is a bit of a frankenbike on second look. So keep looking. !0 speed has been around long enough now that you should be able to find something within your price range.


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## pine138 (Jul 6, 2013)

I want to start off by saying thanks 
I don't have much experience with bikes (although I'm slowly trying to learn). 
But you guys are awesome. I will definitely keep on looking. 

Hmm BikerJulio is right, im from toronto and from what ive seen, the prices here are much higher than they are in the states. 

One additional question. bikedirect looks like an awesome (and cheap!) place to get a beginner road bike. Any recommendations on the site? I know that they dont ship to Canada, however, I do have family in the states that could possibly accept the package and possibly bring it across the border for me. 
Has anyone built a bike from bikedirect? does it require a huge amount of bike knowledge? or would it be preferable to get a LBS to assemble it for me? 

Thank you all again!

Edit: I tried to give you all rep, but apparently I have a 24 hour limit. Ill try again tomorrow!


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## gte105u (Aug 12, 2012)

pine138 said:


> I want to start off by saying thanks
> I don't have much experience with bikes (although I'm slowly trying to learn).
> But you guys are awesome. I will definitely keep on looking.
> 
> ...


I have a Motobecane bike and am very happy with it. You get a lot of bike for your money from Bikesdirect.com. That said, it is hard to recommend one to a beginner. You are not going to be able to properly judge your fit. Also if you don't have a lot of bike knowledge, you will need to get the LBS to assemble. Its not hard, but if you don't know what you are doing it will not be easy and you could damage something. Figure to get the LBS to assemble. You may also want to get the LBS to help fit in advance and provide some geometry input. At that point, you probably could have gotten the bike from the LBS for about the same money. But if you are still interested and want to put in the effort and know the risks, Bikesdirect.com is a reputable seller.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Hopefully you (OP) have now decided against either of the bikes you linked to. That would be good, because your choices are bad and worse, IMHO.

Re: BD or buying online, I think gte105u provides you with a balanced argument. Getting sizing right, then dealing with final assembly and fit are where you're left to your own devices, versus buying from an LBS and avail yourself of their value added services. So be sure to calculate the costs of those services into your BD purchase.

If TO LBS prices are out of your reach, is it possible to make the trek down to the US and purchase a bike? Even with import fees, the cost difference _may_ make this a worthwhile option. 

Also, check out bike coops in your area. Going this route gets you some support services in the way of sizing. fit assistance along with some lessons on basic bike maintenance. Being a MTB'er, the latter may not be necessary. 

Lastly, I advise you to take some time to determine just what you want out of a road bike. There are a number of choices, and intended use(s) have to be considered prior to committing to a purchase.

Will you ONLY ride paved roads? Doing any commuting? Planning any charity rides? Fitness only? Your answers should help you determine the _type_ of bike to get.


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## Zeet (Mar 24, 2013)

I would suggest that you start your quest at the Urbane Cyclist. A co-op located at 180 John street, right there in Toronto. They sell, repair, and upgrade bikes there, in a somewhat communal atmosphere. They also sell new bikes! Checkout the KHS Urban Soul, if you're seriously thinking about a single speed.


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## pine138 (Jul 6, 2013)

PJ352 said:


> Hopefully you (OP) have now decided against either of the bikes you linked to. That would be good, because your choices are bad and worse, IMHO.
> 
> Re: BD or buying online, I think gte105u provides you with a balanced argument. Getting sizing right, then dealing with final assembly and fit are where you're left to your own devices, versus buying from an LBS and avail yourself of their value added services. So be sure to calculate the costs of those services into your BD purchase.
> 
> ...


Yes, I'm no longer looking at those bikes. Going to aim to try and buy a new bike as I see myself owning it for a long time. 
I have fallen in love with the cannondale caad (8 or 10) with the 105. however, getting it new is a tad bit out of my price range at the moment. 

After browsing forums for a bit, I was honestly fully considering just going to my LBS to get an entry level road bike, but the three closest ones to me don't quite offer the level of service that I was expecting (perhaps my expectations are a bit high). For starters, I was hoping that they would offer a lifetime tune up. One shop did not offer free tune ups at all, while the other two were one year and two years. 

In terms of fitting/sizing. I have used wrenchscience.com to come up with a very close estimate. I have also measured my current MTB and it is pretty close to my appropriate size. That being said, I would probably still take it to the LBS to get fitted if it becomes uncomfortable. I actually volunteer at a small local bike coop so I know a little bit about bikes  but only a tiny bit. (I wouldnt consider myself a pro) 

The whole reason that I am opting for a road bike is so that I can ride it with my dad. He got his 2 seasons ago (Norco Valence A2) and has loved it. We bike together every weekend (sat and sun) at the crack of dawn and go about 40-60km (~25 mi-37 mi). One time we even hit a metric century!!. The thing is, however, I continue to ride my MTB (heavy steel frame, 26x1.25, no front derailleur, back derailleur is bent and needs to be replaced) which is effectively stuck on the highest gear setting (21 speed). We average around 25kph (15.5mph) but I know that he want to go faster (and further). So while I will probably stick to my clunker for my daily commute (26k one way), getting a road bike for the weekend rides is my plan. 
Also, for his birthday I was planning on going on a semi-long ride from toronto to niagara falls so I was kind of hoping to have a road bike by then (which I know is a tad unrealistic )



gte105u said:


> I have a Motobecane bike and am very happy with it. You get a lot of bike for your money from Bikesdirect.com. That said, it is hard to recommend one to a beginner. You are not going to be able to properly judge your fit. Also if you don't have a lot of bike knowledge, you will need to get the LBS to assemble. Its not hard, but if you don't know what you are doing it will not be easy and you could damage something. Figure to get the LBS to assemble. You may also want to get the LBS to help fit in advance and provide some geometry input. At that point, you probably could have gotten the bike from the LBS for about the same money. But if you are still interested and want to put in the effort and know the risks, Bikesdirect.com is a reputable seller.


Thanks for the advice. In terms of geometry, what should I be looking for specifically? I know about the lengths and the angles, but I have no clue as to the significance apart from the feel of the bike. 
If I wasn't so cash strapped, I would definitely opt for a LBS and a higher quality bike. However, seeing as I will probably have this bike for quite a while I do want it to be durable/comfortable(to some degree). 




Zeet said:


> I would suggest that you start your quest at the Urbane Cyclist. A co-op located at 180 John street, right there in Toronto. They sell, repair, and upgrade bikes there, in a somewhat communal atmosphere. They also sell new bikes! Checkout the KHS Urban Soul, if you're seriously thinking about a single speed.


Sweet! Thanks! I will definitely check it out. 
I'm not quite looking for a single speed. Skimming through Kijiji, I didnt realize at first glance that it was a single.


Thanks for all your help. I really appreciate this :thumbsup:! Sorry about the lengthiness. I will try to be more concise next time .

Edit: I have just stumbled upon this baby Enduro Sport - Detail
They have my size and its from an LBS. The only problem is that they don't help with the fitting (they charge friggen $100 for ~60min) and they don't appear to have any free tune ups either. 
It is a little out of my intended price range, however, a couple more months of frugal spending should suffice.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

for entry level road bikes try looking at Sweet Pete's, Broadway Cycle, and Browns. All on Bloor.


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## gte105u (Aug 12, 2012)

I am pretty sure any LBS would do a very basic fitting if you buy a bike. Call and talk to them to be sure, but this is a basic service that is basically a standard. The $100 is likely what you would pay if you brought in a bike from outside (see Bikesdirect) or a more entailed full fitting. 

As for the tuneups, I wouldn't worry about that at all. All they do in these is tweak the derailleurs and brakes and lube a coup,e key spots. The free tuneups usually come last in priority for shop time, so it may be with them for a few days. Anything they do for free in that tuneup you can and probably should learn to do yourself. If anything the free tuneups for life may be a crutch for learning how to do it. Don't get hung up on that.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

pine138 said:


> Going to aim to try and buy a new bike as I see myself owning it for a long time.
> I have fallen in love with the cannondale caad (8 or 10) with the 105. however, getting it new is a tad bit out of my price range at the moment.


I think going with a new bike (ideally, from reputable LBS) is the best way to go. However, given your budget (but even that aside) aiming for 105 isn't necessary. The new Sora 9 speed (IMO) will meet most recreational riders needs, and Tiagra 10 speed, which is modeled after Shimano's previous (5600) 105 is even better. No need to go above these groups. 

More importantly, get a bike that fits/ feels, rides and handles the way you like, with gearing well match to your fitness/ terrain. 



pine138 said:


> One shop did not offer free tune ups at all, while the other two were one year and two years.


gte105u answers this, and I completely agree. Shops offering this service are doing it as much as a marketing tool as anything. If you're a MTB'er, you should already possess the knowledge required to perform tune-ups.



pine138 said:


> In terms of fitting/sizing. I have used wrenchscience.com to come up with a very close estimate. I have also measured my current MTB and it is pretty close to my appropriate size. That being said, I would probably still take it to the LBS to get fitted if it becomes uncomfortable. I actually volunteer at a small local bike coop so I know a little bit about bikes  but only a tiny bit. (I wouldnt consider myself a pro)


My thoughts on this... don't use online fit calculators (they'll only serve to confuse) and don't use your MTB as a baseline. It's not a road bike nor does it fit like one. 

As far as taking a bike to a LBS for a fitting if it is uncomfortable, since sizing comes before fitting, if you guess wrong on sizing, the bike will never fit well. All of this leads to one thing - buy from a reputable LBS and trust them to size/ fit you correctly. As was stated, when you purchase from them, this service is included, but be sure to ask beforehand. 



pine138 said:


> The whole reason that I am opting for a road bike is so that I can ride it with my dad. He got his 2 seasons ago (Norco Valence A2) and has loved it. We bike together every weekend (sat and sun) at the crack of dawn and go about 40-60km (~25 mi-37 mi). One time we even hit a metric century!!. The thing is, however, I continue to ride my MTB (heavy steel frame, 26x1.25, no front derailleur, back derailleur is bent and needs to be replaced) which is effectively stuck on the highest gear setting (21 speed). We average around 25kph (15.5mph) but I know that he want to go faster (and further). So while I will probably stick to my clunker for my daily commute (26k one way), getting a road bike for the weekend rides is my plan.
> Also, for his birthday I was planning on going on a semi-long ride from toronto to niagara falls so I was kind of hoping to have a road bike by then (which I know is a tad unrealistic )


If you can do longer rides on that MTB, you're going to think you died and went to heaven when you get a new road bike. :wink5:



pine138 said:


> If I wasn't so cash strapped, I would definitely opt for a LBS and a higher quality bike. However, seeing as I will probably have this bike for quite a while I do want it to be durable/comfortable(to some degree).


Leave the reading/ interpreting geo to the LBS for now. There's more to it than you think. 

Re: the higher quality bike, along the lines of what I offer re: groupsets, all will prove reliable, durable and perform well when set up correctly. Groupsets being wearable items can be upgraded over time, so for now, aim for a bike that fits well - very important with drop bar road bikes.


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## Zeet (Mar 24, 2013)

*Use A Co-op...*

Given your budget, I would first try my very best to locate an old used 80's or 90's steel framed road bike (even the frameset would be good enough). Make certain that your frame doesn't have any rust or structural issues, and that it's the right size. Next, I would contact as many bicycle co-ops in the area, as possible. Decide upon which co-op will be of greatest use to you in terms of available parts and mechanical guidance are concerned. Volunteer some of your weekend time to the co-op and become a member. If your frame looks cosmetically unappealing, now would be a good time to either have it professionally powdercoat painted, or perform your own spray paint job, using youtube as a resource. Next, look for good drivetrain parts. Try to find really good cranksets, chains, derailleurs, cassettes, chainrings, shifters, and wheels, at the co-op. If anything looks iffy or unappealing, bypass it! Ask the co-op mechanics about which drivetrain part will match another. Each weekend, volunteer and look for parts. If you exhaust your patience with volunteering and part sourcing, then just buy whatever remaining parts that you'll need. Use the co-op bicycle mechanics' expertise and Internet videos to build your bike. At the end of the day, you'll have one helluva bike and one helluva bicycle mechanic's education too! :thumbsup:


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

You have at least 3 Canadian manufacturers up that way that make good stuff. Cervelo, Argon 18, and Devinci (who I like a lot). I would check their websites to see who the local dealers are and then see what they have. You might be able to avoid mark-up that way. Here's the links to Argon 18 and Devinci:

DEVINCI

All of our high speed road bike models: Gallium, Gallium Pro, Krypton & Radon | Argon 18


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

One of my mentions - Brown's, carries Opus Opus » Home assembled in Quebec.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Don't know anything about the Rocky Mountain brand, but Browns is showing an all 105 bike at $1100 on clearout. Good to have as a reference point. OP you will discover in the end that all the frames you look at are probably made in a few factories in Taiwan or China. What differentiates the bikes will be the component group and wheels.

Brown's Sports & Cycle Toronto | Clearance Merchandise | Cycling


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## pine138 (Jul 6, 2013)

Hey Guys, 

Thanks again for all your help. It has been a tremendous amount of new information to take in so for the time being, I am going to continue and comb the city to find the bike I want and I will be sure to keep you all updated when I finally get it . 
Sorry about the late reply though. If you havent heard yet, we had a massive flooding in TO and had power outages to >80% of the city so ive been quite busy between being at the hospital and trying to deliver food/water to some of my stranded friends (via my MTB I might add). 

Rashadabd and Bikerjulio: thanks for letting me know about the bike shops. Im quite busy these next few weeks but I will be sure to check the LBS/bikes out. I didn't even know that we had canadian manufacturers so it was definitely nice to learn something new .

Zeet: thanks for all the advice. I have looked into building my own bike and I have found the frameset to be the hardest part to procure. I am currently volunteering at a local bike coop and will continue to do so and will keep my eyes out for any nice frames that may come my way. 

PJ352: Thanks for everything. You have given me a lot of insight into buying bikes and a lot more to consider now too.


> If you can do longer rides on that MTB, you're going to think you died and went to heaven when you get a new road bike.


I am definitely looking forward to getting on a road bike for the first time.

I look forward to hopefully getting a chance to ride with some (if not all of you) in the future.


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## Zeet (Mar 24, 2013)

That's great news, Pine! ...I've taken the liberty to checkout Toronto's Craigslist. Looks like you've got a few really good chromoly prospects in there for under $300. Whatever the case may be, just keep checking CL and put the word out and perhaps hang a flyer or two in nearby libraries and supermarkets. Perhaps even alert a local college campus, that you're looking for an old styled chromoly road bike (tell 'em you're willing to pay top dollar and leave your email address). Make certain that it has vertical dropouts. When you go to Toronto's CL, you might wanna type in brand names like, Raleigh, Schwinn, Nishiki, Peugeot, and Bianchi, into the bike search box.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

pine138 said:


> I am definitely looking forward to getting on a road bike for the first time.
> 
> I look forward to hopefully getting a chance to ride with some (if not all of you) in the future.


Good luck with both your environmental issues and the bike shopping. By all means, keep us updated along the way.


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## pine138 (Jul 6, 2013)

Sorry to bug you all again. I know I promised to hide in my own little corner until I found a bike buuuttt, I just saw this posting on CL and thought that it looked like a good roadbike to hold me over until I can save up enough to get the bike I want. 

Red 1985 CCM road bike 10 speed - 20" frame

Hope you're all having a good week! Let me know what you guys think.


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## Zeet (Mar 24, 2013)

pine138 said:


> Sorry to bug you all again. I know I promised to hide in my own little corner until I found a bike buuuttt, I just saw this posting on CL and thought that it looked like a good roadbike to hold me over until I can save up enough to get the bike I want.
> 
> Red 1985 CCM road bike 10 speed - 20" frame
> 
> Hope you're all having a good week! Let me know what you guys think.


Most would consider that a girl's bike. You might get some strange looks. Keep looking, unless you don't mind that kind of attention. Otherwise, the bike looks co-op ready.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

FWIW, it's called a mixte (step thru) frame (versus diamond). I'd agree that most would consider it a woman's bike. Beyond that, I'd consider it an old (vintage?), well kept, lower end bike. 

Also FWIW, when compared to Chromoly, hi-ten steel is softer, less expensive and heavier, but as durable (except for maybe a tendency to rust).


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## Zeet (Mar 24, 2013)

PJ352 said:


> FWIW, it's called a mixte (step thru) frame (versus diamond). I'd agree that most would consider it a woman's bike. Beyond that, I'd consider it an old (vintage?), well kept, lower end bike.
> 
> Also FWIW, when compared to Chromoly, hi-ten steel is softer, less expensive and heavier, but as durable (except for maybe a tendency to rust).


+1 Excellent commentary! :thumbsup: ...Also, while hi-tensile steel bikes tend to be heavier than chromoly bikes, they do so only because most chromoly steel bikes have been butted, carved, or shaved in specific areas in order to make them lighter. This shaving or butting is permitted to take place, since chromoly steel is stronger than hi-tensile steel. By not shaving or butting hi-tensile steel, the hi-tensile tubing can approach the strength of the naturally stronger and butted chromoly steel tubes. The chromium added to the chromoly steel alloy, makes the chromoly steel tubing slightly less prone to rust. However, that's not quite to the point of referring to it as being *rust-resistant*.


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## pine138 (Jul 6, 2013)

Is there any way to determine the material make of the frame (steel, chromoly, etc.) by looking at it?


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## Zeet (Mar 24, 2013)

pine138 said:


> Is there any way to determine the material make of the frame (steel, chromoly, etc.) by looking at it?


If you have a magnet, you can quite easily differentiate between aluminum and steel. Magnets stick to steel. Magnets have no strong affinity with aluminum. Therefore, there's no visual magnetic attraction towards aluminum. Also, aluminum tubing is generally thicker and wider than steel tubing. The welds on aluminum are usually thicker and wider, as well. If it's chromoly steel, it will usually be labeled somewhere. However, if it's a hi tensile steel road bike, more than likely it won't have a major brand name, if made after 1980. Hi-tensile steel bikes aren't butted in most cases and will generally feel heavier than most when lifted.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

pine138 said:


> Is there any way to determine the material make of the frame (steel, chromoly, etc.) by looking at it?


Just to clarify, chromoly is steel - a mix of chromium and molybdenum.

There are a number of grades/ manufacturers, but currently most are variations of 4130 steel. 

Ex: Reynolds 5,6,7,8 series. True temper OX, S3...


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## pine138 (Jul 6, 2013)

Thanks, Ill be sure to keep an eye out for this. 

So in terms of this bike,
Nishiki road bike (20"frame)
I'm actually gonna go out today and try it out. 
Anything I should be looking out for? 
Is horizontal dropouts an automatic no-no?


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## pine138 (Jul 6, 2013)

PJ352 said:


> Just to clarify, chromoly is steel - a mix of chromium and molybdenum.
> 
> There are a number of grades/ manufacturers, but currently most are variations of 4130 steel.
> 
> Ex: Reynolds 5,6,7,8 series. True temper OX, S3...


With all of these, is there any other way to know that composition aside from the sticker? or perhaps a chemical analysis?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

pine138 said:


> Thanks, Ill be sure to keep an eye out for this.
> 
> So in terms of this bike,
> Nishiki road bike (20"frame)
> ...


No, horizontal dropouts aren't a deal breaker.

Some things to look for are:
- headset (the bars can be turned left/ right with no binding or play)
- crankset (rotates with no binding/ play or noise)
- wheel hubs (rotate smoothly w/ no binding/ play)
- rims - spin to check that they're relatively true
- tires - cracks evident? (if they're original, I'd count on replacing them, along w/ tubes and rim strips).

During your test ride, check for fit (are you comfortable, stretched out, cramped?). Check for functional braking/ shifting, steering and note any noises.

Problems in one or more of these areas aren't necessarily deal breakers, but do indicate that some service will be required - meaning more financial outlay for you, post-purchase. Consider that when making an offer.

If you think the bike fits and you''re interested in it, I would recommend asking the seller to bring it to a reputable LBS to be assessed for mechanical condition as well as fit. While there, you could also ask them for a ballpark estimate of the bikes value.


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## armstrong (Jul 9, 2013)

Hi

I'm from Toronto too actually (well, Oshawa). Was into recreational road biking in the 90s. I'm now eager to get back in since my wife has an interest in cycling as well. 

Recently spent some time looking for a "decent" road bike for less. My budget was flexible, but ideally +/- 500 (if I was offered all DuraAce/Carbon brand new for $750, I obviously would've jumped, but 500 was kinda the realistic "max"). I wanted STI, so I was looking for Tiagra or better, and I wanted a triple chain-ring in the front (I know most road-bikes have double, but my experience is, if you're just a recreational rider who wants to blitz once in a while, I don't see why any roadie wouldn't want a triple. I mean, there are hills. And all knobby bikes have triples there for a reason. So those were my 3 criteria. 

I managed to pick this up off Kijiji earlier this week. It was listed at 495 but after about 30 mins of hemming/hawing, I offered 460 which he took. It's a Schwinn Fastback Elite, triple up front and full Tiagra. But I think it's about 10 years old (the shifters have the screw in the front). Can anyone date this? I can't find it on bikepedia. It basically wasn't ridden by the guy's wife in these 10 years. It has "everything" I want, but it's just old, so I hesitated for a long while. Was this a good pick-up? I spent about 4 hours "cleaning" up the bike so it looks all new and fresh now. It's basically an unridden old bike. Was this a good deal?

https://imageshack.us/a/img593/3148/dpqj.jpg
https://imageshack.us/a/img850/2460/xiyd.jpg
https://imageshack.us/a/img834/4790/zcdo.jpg
https://imageshack.us/a/img703/6898/pp60.jpg
https://imageshack.us/a/img844/8308/mc96.jpg
https://imageshack.us/a/img27/3662/vpch.jpg
https://imageshack.us/a/img12/3000/0dks.jpg


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

armstrong said:


> I managed to pick this up off Kijiji earlier this week. It was listed at 495 but after about 30 mins of hemming/hawing, I offered 460 which he took. It's a Schwinn Fastback Elite, triple up front and full Tiagra. But I think it's about 10 years old (the shifters have the screw in the front).
> 
> Can anyone date this? I can't find it on bikepedia. It basically wasn't ridden by the guy's wife in these 10 years. It has "everything" I want, but it's just old, so I hesitated for a long while. Was this a good pick-up? I spent about 4 hours "cleaning" up the bike so it looks all new and fresh now. It's basically an unridden old bike. Was this a good deal?


I'll offer upfront that I'm no expert on such matters, but based on it being 9 speed Tiagra and having an integrated headset, would guess the bike is early 2000's. I'm also guessing it MSRP'd for around $750.

In most areas here in the states, you would have paid too much, but I know prices north of us are.. well.. north of us. 

If you like the bike and it fits (you and your intended uses), I wouldn't fret over the price. It looks to be in very good condition, so go ride it and enjoy!

EDIT:
If you care to narrow this down further, check the back of the crankset and/ or rear derailleur for a stamped model number. Tiagra 4400 was introduced in 2001 and 4500 in 2007. Won't get you the exact year, but gets you a little closer to model year. This, of course, assumes the components are OE.


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## Zeet (Mar 24, 2013)

pine138 said:


> With all of these, is there any other way to know that composition aside from the sticker? or perhaps a chemical analysis?


Nope! ... Only the manufacturer will know for certain. If you have access to their data sheets, you'll know too!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

pine138 said:


> With all of these, is there any other way to know that composition aside from the sticker? or perhaps a chemical analysis?


No, but most will have some sort of identifier (sticker affixed) or you can research the bike of interest on the web. 

In this price range, I don't think you need to concern yourself beyond making sure the bike is in good overall condition and, in the case of steel, no (or minimal) internal/ external rust. 

I wouldn't discount aluminum. Just stay within a few years old. Nothing older.


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## Zeet (Mar 24, 2013)

PJ352 said:


> No, but most will have some sort of identifier (sticker affixed) or you can research the bike of interest on the web.
> 
> In this price range, I don't think you need to concern yourself beyond making sure the bike is in good overall condition and, in the case of steel, no (or minimal) internal/ external rust.
> 
> I wouldn't discount aluminum. Just stay within a few years old. Nothing older.


+1 Quite true!...On the Internet, you can always checkout Bikepedia. Just click on the year---> the brand--->and finally, the model. Try to avoid old used aluminum. It's always best to stick with chromoly steel. Personally, I would prefer hi-tensile steel over aluminum. Also, for bicycles with derailleurs (multi-speed bikes), vertical dropouts are preferred. For single speeds, horizontal dropouts are preferred. There's more of a chance of alignment problems with horizontal dropouts. Something not to worry so much about with single speeds.


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## areFish (Jun 10, 2013)

There is also Bicycle Blue Book, website or app.


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## pine138 (Jul 6, 2013)

*She's a beauty!*

Soooooooooooo! I went out yesterday and got the bike. Did a quick manual inspection and ride test. The fit was very nice, the seat is a bit old and needs to be replaced but aside from that it was in very very good quality. Alu wheels with new tires. The shifting is a suntour and runs smooth. The frame is a chromoly (I know how much zeet loves chromoly frames ), didnt get a chance to take down the model number this morning, but without further ado, here she is. Spent a couple of hours tuning her up last night 

- cleaned and tightened the cables, 
- cleaned, degreased, and lubed the chain
- greased the seatpost and headset. 
- did a little tweaking to the rear derailler
- Changed the pedals (came with a set of clipless pedals, no cleats tho so im in the process of trying to find out what system they are)

Ive attached some pictures too  I know they're not the best quality (old cell phone) and I was in a rush this morning but I promise to get some better pictures when I get home next week. 

View attachment 283895
View attachment 283896
View attachment 283897


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## Zeet (Mar 24, 2013)

pine138 said:


> Soooooooooooo! I went out yesterday and got the bike. Did a quick manual inspection and ride test. The fit was very nice, the seat is a bit old and needs to be replaced but aside from that it was in very very good quality. Alu wheels with new tires. The shifting is a suntour and runs smooth. The frame is a chromoly (I know how much zeet loves chromoly frames ), didnt get a chance to take down the model number this morning, but without further ado, here she is. Spent a couple of hours tuning her up last night
> 
> - cleaned and tightened the cables,
> - cleaned, degreased, and lubed the chain
> ...


Now that's what I'm talking about! Ya done real good there, boy! :thumbsup:


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## armstrong (Jul 9, 2013)

PJ352 said:


> I'll offer upfront that I'm no expert on such matters, but based on it being 9 speed Tiagra and having an integrated headset, would guess the bike is early 2000's. I'm also guessing it MSRP'd for around $750.
> 
> In most areas here in the states, you would have paid too much, but I know prices north of us are.. well.. north of us.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your reply. I checked out a reputable LBS and it seems 105 retails for around 1500 here, but you can get it on sale for around 1250. A full Tiagra set up retails around 1100 (sale for 1000). So with those numbers in mind, and given you can't get any "recent" road bike of reasonable quality for under 500 on Kijiji, I was quite happy with my find. I took it for a spin yesterday and I think it's at least as good (or even better) than my first road bike (1994 Specialized Allez Pro full Ultegra STI), so I'm quite happy with it. Very smooth ride. Just a matter of putting pedals on it now. A lot has changed in cycling since I was last into it.

I'll investigate tonight on the serial numbers to figure out the year.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

_Very_ nice... congrats!!

Just a BTW, when you take another pic or two, take them from the drive side. It's a 'rule'. :wink5:


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## Zeet (Mar 24, 2013)

Don't forsake your bicycle co-op membership. You're still gonna need to hone you mechanic skills :wink5:


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## Autopilot (Aug 3, 2013)

Hey Pine138,

Like you I've been riding Mtn bikes for the past 13 yrs and even gone so far to replace the knobby tires and put road tires on it. I took the plunge last week after all these yrs to transition to a Cannondale CAAD 10-105 and have never been happier. What a difference in performance, ride, handling. 

My thinking is try to buy the best that you can really afford and more importantly WANT as if it could be your last bike with no regrets. Otherwise if you just go with a bike you can afford but not what you really want then you'll think you wasted your money later and end up having to buy another, so your first purchase you wasted your money when you could have used it to get a half decent bike. If you are only shopping for Norco because of $700 but not really your top pic then I'd say forget it and seek out the Trek. The Norco is not even in the same league and is way over priced for a used single speed. Though only you know the condition of both bikes and yr to determine a fair price. A little haggling wouldn't hurt either. Why not consider a new bike? You can get a nice one for $750-$1k in Toronto, even a really nice one that is new but 1 or 2 yrs old are deeply discounted. These used bikes might have 1,000Km+ mileage which wouldn't be worth it.


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