# Bike lanes in middle of the road?



## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

I recently saw bike lanes (i.e. just painted lines on the road -- no barriers) in the middle of a busy street rather than one on the right side in either direction. I thought it was a crazy idea. But, yesterday I had several issues on a "normal" lane within four blocks -- a car double parked in the lane, a bus abruptly pulling out of a stop on the curb into the lane, a car turning right at an intersection doing the infamous right hook. Does anyone have any experience with middle of the road lanes? Given that people typically do not park in the middle of the road and are much more cautious when making a left turn, I wonder whether middle of the road lanes are safer than those on the right edge of the road?


----------



## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

MarkS said:


> I wonder whether middle of the road lanes are safer than those on the right edge of the road?


If they're designed to position a through-rider approaching an intersection, they're generally a good idea.

If they run down the middle of the road for long stretches like this Chemnitz, Germany "protection lane" in the snapshot below, it's a different story. They are fine sometimes, but call for nerves of steel and good bike handling when two large motor vehicles put the squeeze on you. Keep in mind that the German "protection lane" is a suggestion only. Motorists can drive on or over it if there are no cyclists, and cyclists are not obligated to use it.


----------



## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

sounds like a craptastic idea...

I'd rather ride on the sidewalk.


----------



## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

wim said:


> If they're designed to position a through-rider approaching an intersection, they're generally a good idea.
> 
> If they run down the middle of the road for long stretches like this Chemnitz, Germany "protection lane" in the snapshot below, it's a different story. They are fine sometimes, but call for nerves of steel and good bike handling when two large motor vehicles put the squeeze on you. Keep in mind that the German "protection lane" is a suggestion only. Motorists can drive on or over it if there are no cyclists, and cyclists are not obligated to use it.


The one that I saw was where the grass median strip is in your photo and with bike lanes in either direction there was less likelihood of being squeezed by two large vehicles.


----------



## brucew (Jun 3, 2006)

MarkS said:


> Does anyone have any experience with middle of the road lanes?


I don't, but MB1 does. Alert him to this thread.

As I recall, it was about a year ago that he reported new center-of-the-road bike lanes in DC. Photos, naturally, accompanied the piece.


----------



## rodar y rodar (Jul 20, 2007)

wim said:


> If they run down the middle of the road for long stretches like this Chemnitz, Germany "protection lane" in the snapshot below, it's a different story.


That picture puckers my butt even without seeing a cyclist in the view!

I`ve never heard of mid road bike lanes, but they do sound interresting for all the reasons the OP mentioned.


----------



## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

MarkS said:


> The one that I saw was where the grass median strip is in your photo and with bike lanes in either direction there was less likelihood of being squeezed by two large vehicles.


Yes, that's a different approach.

Not sure about now, but they had a few median-strip bike paths in Berlin, Germany when I was a youngster. They were obligatory, like all bike paths were at that time (no longer true now). I and most of my school friends hated to ride on them because you had to wait for traffic to clear before you could make a right turn into a side street. We almost always ignored the obligation and rode on the street. Never got a ticket for that, so perhaps the cops didn't think much of those median-strip bike paths either.


----------



## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

I've only seen it in short sections and that is too free up the right lane for cars making right turns that the majority of them will be making. There's a photo in the link below.

It's definitely no fun going through there......but I suppose it wouldn't be any better on the side anywhere where the flow of traffic is going to turn right and you, on a bike, want to go straight through.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/09/us/09bike.html


----------



## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Found a photo on the web showing a median path in Berlin today. It's multi-use now, with flower-bed roundabouts to slow cyclists down. Not where I would want to ride.


----------



## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

Here in DC they are putting a bunch of road center bike lanes in.

It took a while before folks got used to them (and folks from out of town really have trouble making turns off of them). They seem to be very confusing for drivers.

Not feeling safe we go way out of our way to avoid them.


----------



## InfiniteLoop (Mar 20, 2010)

I can't imagine these ever being a good idea and scary to think that some traffic engineer thought that they are a good idea. For me, in an urban area, I have a strong preference for a protected cycletrack on each side/direction, directly next to the sidewalk. It amazes me to see stuff like this center lane that The Netherlands already tried and tossed. Someone needs to HTFU and replace all of the cycleway design stuff in MUTCD and AASHTO with the Dutch CROW manual. Why do we settle for second, third, or fourth best just because it's not invented here.


----------



## JimF22003 (Apr 30, 2009)

The ones on PA Ave in DC are OK, except when the cops park in them :mad2:


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

I've been seeing them around my neck of the woods, and while I haven't had the pleasure of using them yet I think that I might like them.
Most of the ones I've been seeing are where there used to be 2 lanes, but now there is only one lane for motorized traffic and the curb lane has been transformed into a bicycle lane with just enough room for parking to the right. There isn't enough room in the parking lane to really drive, and I've been watching traffic flow while driving said streets and most of the motorists have been steering clear of the cycle lanes. At the intersections the bicycle lanes turn into marked shared lanes and then, once through the intersection, back into bicycle lanes.

The biggest problem looks like it may be merging into traffic if/when a door opens. The best thing about them is the lane placement keeps the cyclist out of the gutter where most of the flats are.

Oh, my neck of the woods where I've been seeing them is the south side of Chicago and to be honest I'm a little surprised to see so few drivers in the bicycle lanes.


----------



## wooglin (Feb 22, 2002)

I'll take my chances in the travel lanes.


----------



## InfiniteLoop (Mar 20, 2010)

velodog said:


> Most of the ones I've been seeing are where there used to be 2 lanes, but now there is only one lane for motorized traffic and the curb lane has been transformed into a bicycle lane with just enough room for parking to the right. There isn't enough room in the parking lane to really drive, and I've been watching traffic flow while driving said streets and most of the motorists have been steering clear of the cycle lanes. At the intersections the bicycle lanes turn into marked shared lanes and then, once through the intersection, back into bicycle lanes.


The bike lane is between the vehicle travel lane and parallel parking?


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

InfiniteLoop said:


> The bike lane is between the vehicle travel lane and parallel parking?


Yep, kinda like the photo posted by wim except the lanes are more clearly marked and the parking lane is sometimes not even that. Depending on the width of the street sometimes there is room to parallel park and sometimes the space is to narrow for any use.

These are streets that were 2 lanes in each direction that have had the right lane converted to a bicycle lane. The bike lane is not at the curb, and if the street was wide enough it looks like the room at the curb was used to create parking. On the narrower streets the bicycle lane is the same width and the room at the curb is going unused.

I have just returned to work since recovering from an accident, and this has been the 1st that I've seen them. In my limited time viewing them the motorists have been mostly staying out of them, sticking to the one lane for motorized traffic.

I am surprised to see the motorized traffic steer clear of these bicycle lanes because these are some pretty rough neighborhoods that I'm traveling through, and the police are typically more worried about the crime than the traffic, and most drivers drive accordingly.


----------



## InfiniteLoop (Mar 20, 2010)

velodog said:


> Yep, kinda like the photo posted by wim except the lanes are more clearly marked and the parking lane is sometimes not even that.


We have a couple of these but I (and a lot of others) avoid them as best I can. These are pretty much just a narrow shoulder with the added benefit of parallel parking. You still get cars whizzing by at close range (you're in another lane so no need to worry about any 3' rules) but also the fun of getting doored, nailed by a car pulling out from parking without looking, and cars blocking the path while waiting to park. After all of this I assume you get dumped in to a right turn lane to do battle with 4000 pound cars who believe they have the right-of-way—over your dead body? These things are almost completely unusable in winter with all of the **** from the vehicle lanes piled up in what had been the 'bike lane'.

Hard core bicyclists I know avoid these things for fear of their lives—they're not likely to encourage those on the fence to want to ride. They're scary as hell.

Much better to put a cycle track between the parked cars and the sidewalk. Much safer and perhaps more importantly, feels much safer. Instead of getting dumped in to a right turn lane, the cycle track proceeds beside it and crosses just like pedestrians. During winter there's no slush from the vehicle lanes to contend with and the cycletrack can be kept clear and safe much easier.


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

InfiniteLoop said:


> We have a couple of these but I (and a lot of others) avoid them as best I can. These are pretty much just a narrow shoulder with the added benefit of parallel parking. You still get cars whizzing by at close range (you're in another lane so no need to worry about any 3' rules) but also the fun of getting doored, nailed by a car pulling out from parking without looking, and cars blocking the path while waiting to park. After all of this I assume you get dumped in to a right turn lane to do battle with 4000 pound cars who believe they have the right-of-way—over your dead body? These things are almost completely unusable in winter with all of the **** from the vehicle lanes piled up in what had been the 'bike lane'.
> 
> Hard core bicyclists I know avoid these things for fear of their lives—they're not likely to encourage those on the fence to want to ride. They're scary as hell.
> 
> Much better to put a cycle track between the parked cars and the sidewalk. Much safer and perhaps more importantly, feels much safer. Instead of getting dumped in to a right turn lane, the cycle track proceeds beside it and crosses just like pedestrians. During winter there's no slush from the vehicle lanes to contend with and the cycletrack can be kept clear and safe much easier.


Well, ain't gonna please everybody.

The city is noticing cyclists and doing something within their budget and that counts for a lot. Gotta start somewhere.

As far as segregated cycle paths where everybody feels safer, I don't want anything to do with them. A segregated path is just too much like a recreational bicycle/walking/jogging path where everybody is everywhere, happy and safe and unconscious. A 10 or 20 mile commute would just take too much time dealing with a bunch of people half of which are happy and safe and unconscious.
Dealing with motorized traffic and all that comes with it may be scary but it'll get ya where your going in a more timely fashion.


----------



## ArcticCat500 (Feb 22, 2012)

the roads in Rhode Island suck for the cyclist, I have a 5 mile commute (1way), in the AM Im free to roam all over the main road through town, but you can forget that ride come 4PM, In the dozen or so times I decided to ride in this year I've taken my life in my hands going home, to point I wont ride in any longer. Last week on Tues I had a motorist cut me off, one flip me off and blow the horn and one clipped my bars with the mirror and nearly took me out. Id be much safer riding down the middle of the road like a messenger. My commute to work days are numbered.


----------



## InfiniteLoop (Mar 20, 2010)

velodog said:


> A segregated path is just too much like a recreational bicycle/walking/jogging path where everybody is everywhere, happy and safe and unconscious.


Nope. I agree with you about multi-use-paths. They can be a pain. A segregated cycle path or cycle track is a completely different animal. It's dedicated to bicyclists and overall flow is wonderful and without the pains of dealing with either motor vehicles or pedestrians with their ears and brains stopped up.


----------



## jrm (Dec 23, 2001)

I like how the parking and auto lane is on the outside as long as autos turn movements are restricted or shared by the bike lanes. I dont like the idea of not having any protection, especially when riding against vehicular traffic. It seems this could only really work on road stretches with limited access, long blocks, truck restricted roads and real low speed differential. Another thing is that those markings could become invisible given the right light angle or with the addition of rain/snow which means there would need to be alot more signage posted at driver height. 

I'd give it a whirl. It cant be much worse then riding where im already riding...


----------



## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

Here's a good setup:








https://34x26.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/faa1413a0ca49baa4c892f7bdf5289e9.jpg


----------



## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

jrm said:


> I dont like the idea of not having any protection, especially when riding against vehicular traffic.


If the vehicular traffic coming at me is bicycles only, I don't have a problem with not having protection.


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Bill2 said:


> Here's a good setup:
> View attachment 287131
> 
> 
> https://34x26.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/faa1413a0ca49baa4c892f7bdf5289e9.jpg


What happens at intersections? Those cyclists on the other side of those parked cars are "out of sight, out of mind" till they appear at an intersection. Right cross looking to happen.


----------



## Bill2 (Oct 14, 2007)

velodog said:


> What happens at intersections? Those cyclists on the other side of those parked cars are "out of sight, out of mind" till they appear at an intersection. Right cross looking to happen.


See the full diagram at the link given. The bikelanes have traffic lights- (like in the Netherlands).


----------



## wooglin (Feb 22, 2002)

Bill2 said:


> Here's a good setup:


I like this one better.









And this one.


----------



## KWL (Jan 31, 2005)

wooglin said:


> I like this one better.


My fair city has begun placing these instead of the old "Share the Road" signs which some motorists interpret as meaning "Cyclists get the hell over 'cause I'm coming through-thanks for sharing"


----------



## InfiniteLoop (Mar 20, 2010)

Bill2 said:


> Here's a good setup:
> View attachment 287131
> 
> 
> https://34x26.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/faa1413a0ca49baa4c892f7bdf5289e9.jpg


Yep. This is the way to do it. Far better than anything in the U.S.


----------



## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

wooglin said:


> I like this one better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This gets my vote.


----------



## Scot Gore (Sep 19, 2013)

We use to have a bike lane in the middle of the road. The street was re-designed and it was engineered away a few years ago. It looked like this:







John Allen (the all bike lanes are bad bike advocate) continues to use it as his prime example of why bike lanes are bad. 

It was a two way bike lane on a northbound one way street execept that the far outside lane was a bus only southboudn lane. So the steet lanes were
Southbound Bus
Southbound Bike
Northbound Bike
Northbound Auto
Northbound Auto

You had to be careful getting into and out of it because traffic could come from almost any direction. It also ended abruptly and dumped you into auto traffic in the middle of the road on both terminus's. 

Having been biking this town for many years I knew it's history. We have a outdoor mall downtown that is essentially a pedestrian retail zone (the Nicollet Mall for you locals). However, we do run city buses on a narrow two way in the middle. Bikes were allowed on these bus only lanes. Over the course of one summer the busses ran over and killed three cyclists. Bikes were banned on the Mall after that. 

There's was an outcry that the only good north south passage for bikes was taken away. As a compromise they re-painted that mid lane bike path on Hennepin Ave. It was more of a "see we listened and acted" sort of thing versus a real solution to the north south movement of bikes through downtown. That was many years ago and you have to be and old gray hair like me to even know it. 

The entire downtown traffic flow has been re-engineered. Hennepin is now a two way street with Green share the lane bikeways in the outside lanes. Bikes are now permitted on the Mall again. Additionally there's just a whole lot more bike infrastructure downtown period as compared to the 70's and 80's when this mid lane compromise was implemented. 

John Allen loves to show this old Hennepin Ave implementation as a bad example but fails to mention the bike freeways just a few blocks away. 

Scot


----------



## InfiniteLoop (Mar 20, 2010)

wim said:


> If the vehicular traffic coming at me is bicycles only, I don't have a problem with not having protection.


Yep. Interesting how people on bikes do such a better job of avoiding hitting others as people driving 4000 lb cars do.


----------



## InfiniteLoop (Mar 20, 2010)

Scot Gore said:


> We use to have a bike lane in the middle of the road. The street was re-designed and it was engineered away a few years ago.


Oh the memories. I worked at Pro Color (building farthest right). I think that middle lane was the scariest place I'd ever ridden


----------



## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

MarkS said:


> ....Does anyone have any experience with middle of the road lanes? Given that people typically do not park in the middle of the road and are much more cautious when making a left turn, I wonder whether middle of the road lanes are safer than those on the right edge of the road?


Today we took MarkS on a tour of all the wonderful/crazy bike lanes in DC.

So what do you think now Mark?


----------



## MarkS (Feb 3, 2004)

MB1 said:


> Today we took MarkS on a tour of all the wonderful/crazy bike lanes in DC.
> 
> So what do you think now Mark?


The middle of the road lanes on Pennsylvania Avenue were not scary at all. The street is very wide and traffic is not close. My only complaint is the one you voiced: you can only go a block or two before you get a red light. I also was getting a headache from reading all of the signs/warnings for cyclists. Some of the other bike lane permutations over which we traveled were much more problematic. For example, I did not like the left side bike lane on L Street where trucks and cars would come in from the left to make a left hand turn. I have to say that I feel safer riding in traffic with no bike lane than I did on most of the bike lanes upon which we rode.


----------



## MB1 (Jan 27, 2004)

MarkS said:


> .... I have to say that I feel safer riding in traffic with no bike lane than I did on most of the bike lanes upon which we rode.


Amen brother!


----------

