# building CX tubular wheels - looking for some reviews of tubular rims



## joshnadas (Oct 24, 2007)

ok - i am building some cyclocross wheels to race on. going tubular. I am pretty sure I will go with ultegra hubs, but the main issue is the rim. Is there any benefit to going with the velocity deep v tubular rim? if not, i think the mavic reflex is probably the best choice. Clincher folks love their ultegra / open pro's... the ultegra / reflex seems to be very similar. 

i am 5'8 - 160 lbs. i don't expect any durability issues, especially with the planned lacing selection :

front - either 3 cross or radial, i have not decided. My current wheel (stock wheel) is radial and i like it just fine. 

rear - radial non drive side / 2 cross drive side. that's for sure. 

So does anyone have any tubular rims they really like? I think I am going to go with 28 holes, to make this a relatively standard build. Good experiences with the mavic reflex? 

this wheel will be raced on for many seasons, so i am tempted to go with a more durable rim. any thoughts? 

thanks much.


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## morganfletcher (Oct 18, 2004)

Reflex good


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## tjanson (Nov 11, 2006)

From what I have read on the forum, Mavic Reflexes are very good rims. I would also consider the Velocity Escape rim. I think you can get the Velocities a bit cheaper and the consensus on weightweenies.starbike.com is that they are a bit stronger. They are 375g- 390g. 
I wouldn't do the Deep- Vs.They are 470 g. I guess not too bad. According to Simon Burney in Cyclocross if given a choice between light and low profile and heavy and deep profile rims, go with the light ones. I suppose with the Deep V's you can go with less spokes though... but I am not sure if you would want to go with any less than you already have for cross.
I am debating my CX / road "race" wheelset right now - I have some 32h Ultegra hubs in waiting. I am torn between clincher and tubular. I will probably go with clincher since I only have 1 wheelset between my road and cross bike right now, I am a poor student so I really shouldn't subject myself to tubular prices, especially factoring in the possibility of flats and having to buy new tires. But tubulars are so sexy! Anyhow, I'll probably go with some Velocity Aeroheads or Mavic Open Pros.


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## joshnadas (Oct 24, 2007)

my main reason for tubular is to run low pressure. 

I raced this weekend on this wheel config : (this is the stock wheelset for felt FX-1) 
felt hubs + mavic cxp22 + continental twisters ( a great tire for the money... just heavy) i ran 36-38 psi at a race last sunday and did really well (for me, thats 40th place to 27th place). 

Essentially I want to run 30 psi all the time, and ill blow the money on tubular tires for the reliability factor. Tires are going to be another headache... ill figure that out another day when i am looking at built wheels. 

According to velocity's web site their pro elite weighs 560 grams. Ouch. However its a bombproof rim. Which is nice, and will last a long time. My original plan was to go 36 hole 4 cross front and rear, but from experiencing actual racing, that seems like total overkill. Especially with deep v's. 

The velocity seems like a quality option, and may end up lasting longer. I am tempted to try them out, everyone i know who has velocity rims likes them. I figure any of the rims I am looking at should be fine 28 is plenty of spokes. Especially if they are DT revolutions or comps. 

However, I just built up a campy athena / open pro wheel set and i love those. 3 cross front and rear dt revolution spokes - makes them strong and comfortable. Although there was a lot of windup during the build, the DT revo spokes are awesome.


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## bopApocalypse (Aug 30, 2006)

I'm in the process of going tubular for CX, here's some other options I've found that are worth considering:

* NOS Rims off ebay - there's a lot out there, of varying degrees of quality. I personally have some Mavic GP4s and CXP30s. I know there's a thread floating around here which discusses which of these are good and not so good.
* Ambrosio rims - not as easy to find in the US as Mavic or Velocity, but very cool. Nemisis II seems pretty popular/bombproof (seemed to be on lots of paris-roubaix bikes this year)
* Kinlin TB25 rim - see this thread: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=101487

hth!


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## joshnadas (Oct 24, 2007)

probably going to order from LBS - mostly to give them the business. 

that, and if it gets ****ed up in shipping / warranty issues they got my back.


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

I agree that 36H/4X is overkill, but I wonder if 28H/Radial/2X is underkill, especially if you are concerned about durability.


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## joshnadas (Oct 24, 2007)

maybe... i could go 3 cross on the drive side, but i want to experiment with a radial no drive side. From the reading and research I have done, it seems to make sense. I have seen it a couple of places, Easton has a rear wheel that is 2 cross drive, radial non drive. However that wheel is stronger because it uses spokes with no bend. The spokes thread into the hub, and into the nipple under the rim. so bad ass. if they made that in tubular it would be hard to resist. 

Radial front is probably unwise, but, i have been using a front radial wheel an it has been fine. leaning towards 3 cross, for this reason.


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## Corndog (Jan 18, 2006)

You can't get Reflex rims in 28 spoke can you? I'd just do the boring old 32 hole, 3x frotn and rear if I were you. It will be very durable and the 4 spokes add little weight. Build htem up with DT Revolutions or Sapim CX-Ray spokes (if you can afford them). I'd personally drop the radial lacing for a low profile rim used in cross. Maybe go 2x for the front and 2x rear NDS/3x DS if you want to mess around a little.

I have Reflex and Velocity Escape rims that I use. For cross, I'd point you toward the Reflex. It is wider and tires glue on much nicer and are easy to center. The Ambrosia nemesis are good rims if you can find them.


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## Greg Hejtmanek (Aug 17, 2007)

You know thousands of races have been won and millions of miles have been done on 36 or 32 hole three cross wheels over the past 100 years. Why would anyone think that they are special and fall out of the norm in a cross race? Radial and funny spoke counts make nos sense at all to me for a cross wheel.


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## euro-trash (May 1, 2004)

bopApocalypse said:


> * Kinlin TB25 rim - see this thread: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=101487
> 
> hth!


I have a set of Kinlin rims (granted they are not built...) but the quality seems very high. They have a nice braking surface. I'm guessing based on the reviews I've seen from several prominent wheelbuilders that they are plenty strong for years of cross. 

For the OP, I'd suggest the following rims: 
Reflex (only available in 32h anymore) 
Velocity Escape- 28 radial in the front is fine, but I'd go 32 hole, radial/3cross in the rear
Kinlin 25 with the same 28/32 combo 
Fir Isidis- similar to the GEL 330 
Ambrosio F20 -should be fine - the Nemisis is better if you are worried about durability


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## PeanutButterBreath (Dec 4, 2005)

I think you should play around with the DT Swiss calculator a bit and see what the actual impact of these descisions is.

By my hasty number crunching:

Ultegra+Pro Elite+Revs laced 28H RR front and R2X rear = ~1880g
Ultegra+Pro Elite+Revs laced 32H 3X front and 3X rear = ~1930g
Ultegra+Escape+Revs laced 32H 3X front and 3X rear = ~1580g

You save a negligible amount of weight (2.5%) and compromise integrity & durability (IMHO) with the radial/2x spoke patterns. On the other hand, you can save sigificant weight (16%) and maintain the recognized structural integrity & durability of a 32H/3X build by using Escapes instead of Pro Elites.


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## ZenNMotion (May 28, 2004)

joshnadas said:


> maybe... i could go 3 cross on the drive side, but i want to experiment with a radial no drive side. From the reading and research I have done, it seems to make sense.


Don't do it unless you're an expert at wheelbuilding, especially for CX wheels to be abused, you'll be frustrated with the result. My experience with X3/Radial rear open pro/ultegra was bad, and I've built a lot of wheels. It's hard to keep the radial side from getting loose, even with spokeprep stuff, even resorting to loctite with high tension, and a real pain to true later. Theory and real-world sometimes differ. Cross 3 both sides, accepted standard for a reason. FWIW, I've built some nice tubbie wheels with NOS GP4's, you can find them cheap and mine have held up well for a couple seasons. The only issue is the anodized braking surface isn't as nice in the wet as newer rims with machined sides like the Reflex rim. But they work OK enough with decent pads/brake setup, and you can't beat the price-


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## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

I like my Escapes. They stay true under my fat arse. Not too heavy. Not too lightweight.

Durable. ...and I ride my Crosshairs like a mtn bike a lot.

At 160, if you can find some good GL330s and/or a GEL280 for the front, yer gonna be OK. I tried em on my bike for a bit before I got the Escapes and found I hadta keep truing em. YMMV on that one tho.

HTH

M


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## rensho (Aug 5, 2003)

You don't want to ride GEL280s at that weight. I'm 150 and I was never able to keep 280s true, and that's on the road.


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