# Anyone using Praxis or Wheels Mfg bb30/pf30 conversion BB?



## seppo17 (Dec 7, 2008)

Not the adapters, the actual conversion bottom brackets they sell. I'm looking to get reviews/oppinions on how well they hold up.


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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

And your search function is broken....


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## tlg (May 11, 2011)

I use the KCNC BB. Similar to the Wheels MFG. Over 3k miles so far and no issues.
KCNC/RWC BB30 to HT2 BB Adapter with Enduro ZERO Bearings


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

goodboyr said:


> And your search function is broken....


Be fair, you know this topic is hardly ever discussed.........


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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

Touche


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

I'll bite.

I have a praxis one. It's the OSBB one which is probably just the BB30 with whatever is needed for specialized bikes.

I only have a little over 2300 miles on it though, but so far it's been flawless. I really like the way it installs and I have complete confidence in it never creaking.


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## TiCoyote (Jun 28, 2005)

I just bought the Wheels. The shop mech said that the Praxis was more difficult to install. They both get excellent reviews.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

TiCoyote said:


> The shop mech said that the Praxis was more difficult to install.


That right there raises a big, ol' red flag regarding the competence of the mechanic.


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## redondoaveb (Jan 16, 2011)

seppo17 said:


> Not the adapters, the actual conversion bottom brackets they sell. I'm looking to get reviews/oppinions on how well they hold up.


I have the Wheels BB30 to GXP outbound bottom bracket and it is working fine.


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## springs (Jun 26, 2011)

tvad said:


> That right there raises a big, ol' red flag regarding the competence of the mechanic.


Maybe he meant that it takes a bit more effort to tighten the drive-side. My PF30-Shimano was like that and may be why Praxis recommends long handled wrenches. Frame tolerance could make a difference. Otherwise, the PF30 bracket was easy to install and so far is working perfectly.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

TiCoyote said:


> I just bought the Wheels. The shop mech said that the Praxis was more difficult to install. They both get excellent reviews.


I was actually a little stunned at how simple, easy and precise it was.

The only issue at all I see is that it requires two bottom bracket tools, the reading of instructions and paying attention. Everything else is butter and roses.


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## Roland44 (Mar 21, 2013)

redondoaveb said:


> I have the Wheels BB30 to GXP outbound bottom bracket and it is working fine.


Same here, no problems at all...


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## masont (Feb 6, 2010)

TiCoyote said:


> I just bought the Wheels. The shop mech said that the Praxis was more difficult to install. They both get excellent reviews.


lol at your shop "mechanic"


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## TiCoyote (Jun 28, 2005)

tvad said:


> That right there raises a big, ol' red flag regarding the competence of the mechanic.


I'll be more specific. He found the Wheels Mfg easier to install. The Praxis has a collet system, so it's one more moving part. It wasn't like he had significant trouble doing it, just it's easier to install the Wheels b/c it's two pieces whereas the Praxis is three. 

I think that the "big 'ol red flag" is this board's quickness to deride.


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## bdaghisallo1 (Sep 25, 2007)

Another thing to consider is DI2 internal wiring if you have it. The Praxis PF30 BB will not allow room to route the DI2 wires through the inside of the BB shell - the added sleeve for PF30 precludes this. The Wheels PF30 BB looks like it should afford the clearance to allow space for the wiring.


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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

TiCoyote said:


> I'll be more specific. He found the Wheels Mfg easier to install. The Praxis has a collet system, so it's one more moving part. It wasn't like he had significant trouble doing it, just it's easier to install the Wheels b/c it's two pieces whereas the Praxis is three.
> 
> I think that the "big 'ol red flag" is this board's quickness to deride.


The collet makes the praxis more secure than the wheels. Probably the real reason is that he had one in stock and the other not.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

TiCoyote said:


> I think that the "big 'ol red flag" is this board's quickness to deride.


Yes, probably so. "More difficult to install" sounds lazy to me. Or, it sounds like an excuse to sell the Wheels Mfg unit that was in stock, as was mentioned above. Either way, it raises a red flag to me, and at the very least it would cause me to ask why, and drill down for specifics.

The fact is, the Praxis system works . A quick read on the Praxis website explains why.

One never reads about a Praxis PF30 owner complaining of creaks or other problems.


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## TiCoyote (Jun 28, 2005)

tvad said:


> One never reads about a Praxis PF30 owner complaining of creaks or other problems.



I'm honestly not trying to start an argument here, but #10 on this board complained of creaks with a Tarmac, and that swayed me: Best PF30 to Shimano 24mm Bottom Bracket? Praxis vs. Wheels Mfg. vs. Race Face vs. ?- Mtbr.com


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

TiCoyote said:


> I'm honestly not trying to start an argument here, but #10 on this board complained of creaks with a Tarmac, and that swayed me: Best PF30 to Shimano 24mm Bottom Bracket? Praxis vs. Wheels Mfg. vs. Race Face vs. ?- Mtbr.com


That's the first comment I've ever read about a creaking Praxis PF30.

Anyway, kumba-ya...

Buy what makes you comfortable.


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## skinewmexico (Apr 19, 2010)

My shop guy (who is young)just tightened mine until it was hard, not until it stopped. I pointed it out, and he talked to Praxis, and cranked it on down to the stop. It was his first. I told him not to use a 6" wrench next time.


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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

Lol. How many "shop guys" are there that don't read instructions? ............,...Don't bother answering, its a rhetorical question.......


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

goodboyr said:


> Lol. How many "shop guys" are there that don't read instructions? ............,...Don't bother answering, its a rhetorical question.......


Even though the question was rhetorical, the issue of reading instructions occurred to me many, many times during the course of this thread and other Praxis threads. The Praxis instructions are _very_ thorough and complete...both the printed instructions included with the PF30 adapter, and online.


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## TiCoyote (Jun 28, 2005)

tvad said:


> That's the first comment I've ever read about a creaking Praxis PF30.
> 
> Anyway, kumba-ya...
> 
> Buy what makes you comfortable.


To be fair, it's the only complaint I've seen about it as well. The Praxis does look like nice piece. I haven't seen any complaints with the Wheels Mfg either. I also like the Wheels b/c it came in red, and that looks pretty sharp on my white Tarmac. Also, I e-mailed Praxis and Wheels about which model I needed, and the response from Wheels was much more extensive and personal. I figure a company with that level of customer support is a safe bet. Also, it's what the shop recommended it, so I figured they would stand behind the part and the install.


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

I watched a you-tube video on Praxis and Wheels Manufacturing. I have no experience with either system but after watching the video's I would go with Wheels Manufacturing and give that one a shot. If creaking or problems resulted then I would give Praxis a shot. I ride steel but my son has a Cadd 10 and it may come up sooner or later.


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## TricrossRich (Mar 26, 2014)

I have a Praxis on my Venge Pro w/ Dura-ace cranks... awesome and rock solid so far, but with winter setting in here in the Northeast, I've put limited miles on the bike... about 400 so far.

I will be installing another one on an OSBB Allez with Ultegra cranks in a week or two.


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## applespeed (Jun 14, 2013)

Praxis doesn't seem like it's creak-free either. I have installed one on a caad10, and that one started creaking after 1000 miles when off the saddle. I have a praxis conversion bb with a praxis turn zayante crank setup which are factory installed on my allez comp race and that one also creaks a bit too.


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## Oscarach (Jan 15, 2011)

I have used both and did not have any issues with either, had about 2200 miles on the Praxis with no creaking. Only have 600 or so on the Wheels manufacturing one but no issues so far.
Only changed because the Praxis would not fit in the new frame because of a small ridge in the middle of the bottom bracket shell, so that is something worth checking.


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## TiCoyote (Jun 28, 2005)

I use the Wheels Mfg one. It seems to work well. I have some sort of creak on my bike, but I don't know what it is. It "sounds" like it is coming from the BB, but that is often a red herring.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

TiCoyote said:


> I have some sort of creak on my bike, but I don't know what it is. It "sounds" like it is coming from the BB, but that is often a red herring.


^This is true. Some of the creaks folks attribute to bottom brackets are coming from elsewhere.


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## nhluhr (Sep 9, 2010)

goodboyr said:


> The collet makes the praxis more secure than the wheels. Probably the real reason is that he had one in stock and the other not.


It's hard to imagine anything more "secure" than the Wheels Mfg PF30-Out I just installed. It is effectively pressed in on both sides, with the threading pulling the left half in as you turn it into the right half (which you already pressed in using a bearing press). It's an outstanding way to run hollowtech or GXP on a BB30 or PF30 frame.


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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

Yes. But the praxis also exerts circumferential pressure on the bb shell through the collet arrangement.


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## applespeed (Jun 14, 2013)

goodboyr said:


> Yes. But the praxis also exerts circumferential pressure on the bb shell through the collet arrangement.


The collet is only on the drivetrain side of the bb though. The non drive side is "free'r floating", especially with just a rubber gasket to take up inconsistent frame tolerances.


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## crit_boy (Aug 6, 2013)

tlg said:


> I use the KCNC BB. Similar to the Wheels MFG. Over 3k miles so far and no issues.
> KCNC/RWC BB30 to HT2 BB Adapter with Enduro ZERO Bearings


I liked the look of that BB. 

I emailed RWC about using that BB in a Venge with carbon OSBB. They did not recommend it. There is insufficient threading to tighten the to the 61 mm width of the osbb. Additionally, there is insufficient cup depth on the bb to use it with one 3.5 mm spacer on each bb cup (the wheels mfg. method of using their bb on osbb). 

Stupid osbb. Successful exercise in making pf30 even worse.


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## robt57 (Jul 23, 2011)

I ask every thread about these BBs, Does it void the warranty on a frame. I still have not seen an answer to this question.

EDIT: 'It' meaning a Praxis BB.


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

robt57 said:


> I ask every thread about these BBs, Does *it* void the warranty on a frame. I still have not seen an answer to this question.


What do you mean by _it_? Do you mean does installing a Praxis BB void a frame warranty?


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## goodboyr (Apr 19, 2006)

applespeed said:


> The collet is only on the drivetrain side of the bb though. The non drive side is "free'r floating", especially with just a rubber gasket to take up inconsistent frame tolerances.


Well, not sure whether this is a theoretical argument you are making since the vast experience is that these are problem free and successfully eliminate the bb30 issues. The engineering is sound and the evidence in actual use is overwhelmingly positive. OTOH, I have heard and read about creeking persisting with the Wheels solution.


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## nhluhr (Sep 9, 2010)

goodboyr said:


> Well, not sure whether this is a theoretical argument you are making since the vast experience is that these are problem free and successfully eliminate the bb30 issues. The engineering is sound and the evidence in actual use is overwhelmingly positive. OTOH, I have heard and read about creeking persisting with the Wheels solution.


You're confusing the old adapter bushings with the PF30-Out mentioned in this thread. Yes, everybody knows delrin adapter bushings are problematic. It's not the only product Wheels Mfg makes.


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## applespeed (Jun 14, 2013)

goodboyr said:


> Well, not sure whether this is a theoretical argument you are making since the vast experience is that these are problem free and successfully eliminate the bb30 issues. The engineering is sound and the evidence in actual use is overwhelmingly positive. OTOH, I have heard and read about creeking persisting with the Wheels solution.


Just an observation. Not vast experience either, but we have a handful of guys in our team that ride the 2015 Allez Comp Race which has the Praxis crank and BB setup from the factory, and 3 of them have bb's that creak when ridden out of the saddle.


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## nhluhr (Sep 9, 2010)

applespeed said:


> Just an observation. Not vast experience either, but we have a handful of guys in our team that ride the 2015 Allez Comp Race which has the Praxis crank and BB setup from the factory, and 3 of them have bb's that creak when ridden out of the saddle.


That's a BB30 crank and has nothing to do with the Praxis BB30->Hollowtech conversion BB being discussed.


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## applespeed (Jun 14, 2013)

nhluhr said:


> That's a BB30 crank and has nothing to do with the Praxis BB30->Hollowtech conversion BB being discussed.


It's a a 30mm crank with a step down to 28mm sort of like gxp. You can't fit it into regular bb30 bearings. The bottom bracket it uses works the same way as the praxis conversion bb.


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## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

Any of you have any follow-ups as far as longevity goes about either of these?
I'm looking at building up a frame with a pf30 BB and researching 24mm adapters for a 6800 crank.
From the videos I've seen I'm leaning towards the praxis but the only question I have is the o-ring possibly shrinking with age due to weather or the like, is this a valid concern?
Any other manufacturers worth considering?
Thanks


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## tvad (Aug 31, 2003)

Two years. Works perfectly.


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## upstateSC-rider (Aug 21, 2004)

tvad said:


> Two years. Works perfectly.


Excellent, great to hear.
Thanks


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## BikeLayne (Apr 4, 2014)

I watched a video on you-tube on each system. It looks to me that the difficulty with installing the systems looks to be a draw. 

Even though I ride steel and will not need a bottom bracket of this type I do have grown kids with various styles of BB's. My son has a BB30 and my son-in-law Is thinking of buying a frame with a BB86. So I may eventually install one. I like the looks of the Wheels so I would go with that but have no idea if one is better then the other.


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## Notvintage (May 19, 2013)

tvad said:


> One never reads about a Praxis PF30 owner complaining of creaks or other problems.


No question. I installed a Praxis BB30 Campy Ultra Torque adapter in my Time NXS BB30 frame thousands of miles ago; it's dead silent. Easy to install as well.


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## Lookbiker (Sep 2, 2006)

I'm gong to use a Chris King 30 bottom bracket with their #5 conversion kit to fit my SRAM GXP crank to my PF30 NIner frame. Hopefully it will be creak free


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