# Was hit by car last weekend, driver did NOT receive summons, is this a problem??????



## kevindef (May 19, 2008)

Last weekend, I was hit by a car while cycling through Chester Borough, NJ by a 17 yearold traveling south on rt 24, I was traveling north on 24. He made a left turn into the Chester Mall just north of Alstedes Farm and did not see me. Luckily, I was NOT seriously injured, but my bike was damaged and the estimate is almost $2,300. I had posted this earlier last week just after my accident

Anyway, my question is, the Officer on the scene DID NOT issue a summons to the kid. He just gave him a verbal warning. His father is pointing out that since his son did not receive a summons, his insurance will not cover damages to my bike. I picked up the Police Report yesterday, and there wasn't a summons issued, but the report clearly states that the driver of the car "failed to realize that a cyclist was crossing the entrance to the mall at the same time he was turning and subsequently struck the cyclist". Chester is a small town, and I figured the cop knew the family, but that is just a guess

Does anyone know if this failure to give a summons will cause me any problem????? If so, do I have recourse with the Officer??? I did file a claim with the Insurance Company this morning. I did point out the kid did not receive a summons, and that I TOTALLY disagreed with that decision. I also pointed out that I could have lost my life in this accident and that I was slightly injured. The report does say I was injured, but I did not go to a Doctor. My left arm was sore and nothing was broken. So, am I screwed?????


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## Ranilus (Feb 26, 2010)

Good luck. Yay for American's great work ethics and the legal system.


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## Nielly (Sep 21, 2009)

Was there any bleeding invovled from your injuries? The reason I ask is that when I was hit by a car in Englewood cliffs the officers mode a big deal out of that. I just had some road rash on my elbow but declined the ambulance ride and had to sign to say I was ok. It sort of raised the bar on what they consider a serious. In my case I was lucky that there was a witness in another car that saw the whole thing and stuck around and told the police what was up. The driver in my case ended up with a ticket and if I recall correctly it was due to the injury. The drivers dad ponied up for my repairs but they were not as high as yours. I don't think Dad's correct about the insurance company not paying because of the non-ticket. It seems pretty clear from your description of the police report that the driver was at fault. The insurance company may try to assign some "fault" to you in this case but you should hash that out with them at this point.


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## jdean492 (Apr 17, 2009)

I was recently read ended in my car (not on a bike). The driver did not receive a ticket, but the police report states that she was following too closely and inattentive. I filed a claim with her insurance and they have given me no trouble. It was clearly stated in the police report to be her fault and they are not arguing. My advice would be just to deal directly with this kids insurance. It's most likely the dad is trying to save himself from higher premiums and telling you this story in hopes you just back down and forget about it.


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## bedazzle410 (Sep 26, 2005)

Even if a ticket was issued they would plead not guilty and then even if convicted it would not be admissible in a civil trial. I believe as long as the report indicates that the car was the culpible cause of the accident you should be OK.


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## zac (Aug 5, 2005)

You are seeking legal advice on an internet forum. Would you seek surgical advice here too?

Get an attorney. You have a case. The summons would have helped, but is not necessry to determine fault. 

IAAL, but not your lawyer, and the above is not legal advice. 
zac


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## Nielly (Sep 21, 2009)

When you deal with the insurance company make sure you get all the names of the people you talk to and most importantly get the claim # and keep it in a file. Sometimes it can take quite a few phone calls to get results. When you talk to someone try to get an idea of the procedures and timetable. When and who to call back that kind of thing and write it all down. This will help your claim from getting lost in the cracks and hopefully speed things up.


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## djg21 (Oct 25, 2003)

kevindef said:


> Last weekend, I was hit by a car while cycling through Chester Borough, NJ by a 17 yearold traveling south on rt 24, I was traveling north on 24. He made a left turn into the Chester Mall just north of Alstedes Farm and did not see me. Luckily, I was NOT seriously injured, but my bike was damaged and the estimate is almost $2,300. I had posted this earlier last week just after my accident
> 
> Anyway, my question is, the Officer on the scene DID NOT issue a summons to the kid. He just gave him a verbal warning. His father is pointing out that since his son did not receive a summons, his insurance will not cover damages to my bike. I picked up the Police Report yesterday, and there wasn't a summons issued, but the report clearly states that the driver of the car "failed to realize that a cyclist was crossing the entrance to the mall at the same time he was turning and subsequently struck the cyclist". Chester is a small town, and I figured the cop knew the family, but that is just a guess
> 
> Does anyone know if this failure to give a summons will cause me any problem????? If so, do I have recourse with the Officer??? I did file a claim with the Insurance Company this morning. I did point out the kid did not receive a summons, and that I TOTALLY disagreed with that decision. I also pointed out that I could have lost my life in this accident and that I was slightly injured. The report does say I was injured, but I did not go to a Doctor. My left arm was sore and nothing was broken. So, am I screwed?????


If the driver stated to the officer that he "failed to realize that a cyclist was crossing the entrance to the mall at the same time he was turning and subsequently struck the cyclist," he has made an admission of negligence which is fully admissible in any court., In any event, the Police Officer, based on his professional experience, concluded that the driver was negligent when he hit you. I cannot imagine that the driver's insurer will not cover your claim. 

As an aside, you should not be so quick to conclude that you suffered no injury, For instance, you might find that your neck and back start bothering you after a day or so, or you could start to experience some dizziness or light-headedness. If this prooves the case, you may want to see a doctor, and have a lawyer submit a no-fault claim for your medical costs. 

It's amazing how fast an insurer will pay a claim for property damage if it thinks it can get an accident victim to release it from liability for possible medical injuries. 

Good luck.


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## kevindef (May 19, 2008)

I did file a claim with the driver's insurance company. I also stopped communicating with the driver's father. His final communication was he wanted to pay the LBS directly, which is fine, and wanted me to sign something releasing him or his son from any further claims. I received that email after I had already submitted the claim to the insurance. He did say he did NOT want the insurance company involved. Well, they are now. Thanks for all your help and suggestions everyone.


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## easyridernyc (Jan 10, 2008)

damn if your goal was to have the father pay for the repairs, and he agreed to pay the repair bill directly to the lbs only if you didnt submit the claim, i dont get it

why were you were in such a hurry to submit the claim? sounds like that's the first thing you did as soon as you got the police report. the guy said he would take care of it, it was worth it to him pay for the repairs and not have his rates go up, and to you to have the repairs done at no cost to you. what was the point of involving the insurance company?

unless, like you imply, you never had a chance to capitalize on a legitimate offer by the father that the repairs would be paid in full once the repairs were done. or that he wouldnt pay value for an irreprably damaged carbon frame. then, ok. it sounded like he was ready to do it, though. but now that you've pissed him off it might be best to keep your distance. cause if he was talking to you in good faith and after his son was involved in an accident that he offered to pay for and if he feels like you undermined him by going to the insurer, he's gonna be breathing fire, man. that was not cool. stay away.


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## kevindef (May 19, 2008)

The reason, I went to the Insurance company and cut him off was because he gave me a bunch of garbage over the estimate being high and questioned whether or not the estimate was legitimate. He also wanted to visit the LBS and try to talk to them and see if he could lower it. The LBS used a carbon copy type of bill that did not have their name and address etc. He then insisted that the bike be shipped to California and be tested, x-rayed etc. But would not say if he would pay to have that done. At that point I said ok, I'll just go to the insurance co.


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## easyridernyc (Jan 10, 2008)

i hear you. if he was standing up and taking responsibility that's one thing. but i guess taking that kind of responsibility and trying to keep the insurance rate from going up at the same time don't really go together. i was in a similar situation once where what the guy said at the beginning turned out to be something completely different from what he wound up doing in the end. in retrospect, i'm not sure that bullshyt that i ended up with wasnt exactly what the guy had in mind when he seemed so honest at the git. i wanted to break his f**kin neck, man, he really pissed me off.

sounds like this guy's tune, for better or worse, woulda kept a changin. u were probably right, best to get out in front and take control. now the ball is really in his court, ship it to california to have it inspected, wtf?

otherwise, how u healing? good thing its been cold lately good excuse to rest up drink plenty of beer, watch tv, get laid. still it will be time to get back in the saddle soon, u got a back up ride?


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## kevindef (May 19, 2008)

I also mountain bike, so I have a couple of mtn bikes to use until my road bike is either fixed or replaced. I am physically ok. My left arm was pretty sore for a couple of days, but now it is feeling ok. The insurance company was quite concerned about the injury part and was trying to figure out how far I was taking that. All I want is my bike fixed or replaced. I am not injured to the extent that I am incapacitated and want to sue etc. Just take care of my damages to the bike. The insurance company also wanted me to go to the LBS and get a value of the crashed bike in writing. I explained to them it wasn't a stock bike and had all the components and wheels upgraded etc. They said that was fine, just get a total value and fax to them. They said they would weigh repair versus replace. The value was placed at around 4,700. Repair 2,300. To me that looks like they will pay to repair. Thanks for the help!


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## drdiaboloco (Apr 10, 2010)

easyridernyc said:


> ...taking that kind of responsibility and trying to keep the insurance rate from going up at the same time...


If you know anything about the car insurance rates in NJ (esp. with a teen on the policy), this is EXACTLY what he was doing. Even outside of NJ Dad was going to be paying out the nose after any claim was made against his policy.


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## AlanE (Jan 22, 2002)

*Replace vs. repair*

I hope that at $2300, the repair option includes a new frame. As previously discussed, it's difficult to be 100% confident that a carbon frame isn't compromised (i.e. safe to ride), and you shouldn't have to live with that uncertainty everytime you get out on the road. It's dangerous enough out there, as you already know.

Of course the insurance company is going to want a written estimate from the bike shop before they pay out. They're not going to take your word for it. If your LBS is going to tell you the frame is OK (after whatever inspections they are going to perform), ask them if they will provide an extended warranty in writing. I suspect they will say they won't be able to provide a warranty on any frame that's been in a crash. But if the insurance company is willing to cover a replacement based on the LBS's "expert" judgement, then it sounds like you might just have to get by with a shiny brand new bike. (wink wink, nudge nudge, know what I mean? Say no more). I'd say you deserve it.

As for the father of the kid who hit you being pissed off, well sucks to be him. He's not trying to be your friend. Maybe this wasn't the first accident the kid has had, and maybe he's on the verge of having his insurance dropped. If the kid was that negligent driving with his father in the car, just imagine how he drives at other times.


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## kevindef (May 19, 2008)

The $2,300 does include a new frame. I am leaning towards taking whatever the insurance co. pays and putting it towards a new bike. I know I will probably have to add to whatever the insurance pays. The first impression of the LBS was the frame had to be replaced and that is how thy wrote the estimate.

Actually the kid's father wasn't in the car with him at the time of the accident. The kid was alone. The kid called his parents and they came to the scene. I heard the cop say to the kid he was at fault for failing to yield to the cyclist. He gave the kid a verbal warning. He then said to the kid this was the 2nd warning he has received within the past week and that he has to be more careful. This why I have no clue why the kid didn't receive a summons. He could have killed me. But at this point all I really care about is either getting a new bike or getting my bike fixed so I can get back to riding. I just don't have a clue at how fast the insurance will take to make things right. I just don't want this to go on for months.


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## AlanE (Jan 22, 2002)

Man, this story just keeps getting better and better all the time. Now it turns out this kid is a menace on the road and the police are complicit in just letting him off with warnings. Twice in one week? Are there any other details you've omitted? Was the kid texting at the time? Was he driving into the sun with a bug-encrusted windshield? 

Getting back on topic for this thread: "... driver did NOT receive summons, is this a problem??????" - I'd have to say YES.

I think I'll avoid riding in the Chester area for a while.


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## cski (Mar 11, 2010)

easyridernyc said:


> i hear you. if he was standing up and taking responsibility that's one thing. but i guess taking that kind of responsibility and trying to keep the insurance rate from going up at the same time don't really go together. i was in a similar situation once where what the guy said at the beginning turned out to be something completely different from what he wound up doing in the end. in retrospect, i'm not sure that bullshyt that i ended up with wasnt exactly what the guy had in mind when he seemed so honest at the git. i wanted to break his f**kin neck, man, he really pissed me off.
> 
> sounds like this guy's tune, for better or worse, woulda kept a changin. u were probably right, best to get out in front and take control. now the ball is really in his court, ship it to california to have it inspected, wtf?
> 
> otherwise, how u healing? good thing its been cold lately good excuse to rest up drink plenty of beer, watch tv, get laid. still it will be time to get back in the saddle soon, u got a back up ride?


Appreciate the nuance you added here. I have been hit a few times and know better now than to try to work it out with the driver, as it seems that most often he then tries to wriggle out when the bill arrives.


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## easyridernyc (Jan 10, 2008)

not. 

no such thing as half pregnant. fool me once shame on you. fool me twice 

shame on me.


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## djg21 (Oct 25, 2003)

kevindef said:


> I did file a claim with the driver's insurance company. I also stopped communicating with the driver's father. His final communication was he wanted to pay the LBS directly, which is fine, and wanted me to sign something releasing him or his son from any further claims. I received that email after I had already submitted the claim to the insurance. He did say he did NOT want the insurance company involved. Well, they are now. Thanks for all your help and suggestions everyone.


I would strongly suggest that you deal with the insurance company directly, and NO, YOU SHOULD NOT AGREE TO SIGN A GENERAL RELEASE. In the odd chance you did incur an injury that is not yet evident, you will want his insurer to cover your medicals and any as-of-now unknown damages

Don't let the father bully or browbeat you or the bike shop. Deal with the insurer and only the insurer. Demand reimbursement for your entire bike -- if you have the purchase receipt, you are in good shape. If not, you can get a statement from a bike shop as to the replacement cost which most probably will suffice. 

If you have a family friend who's a lawyer, you may want to ask for some help and have him/her communicate with the insurer. Otherwise, just remain aware that you will be dealing with a claims adjuster whose job is to limit the amount the insurer pays, and who probably knows little about bikes. You may want to let him/her inspect the bike at a bike shop of your choosing so he/she can ask questions if necessary, and you have "expertise" available. 

Also, note that most insurers will replace the entire bike, and not just the broken parts. This may stem from the fact that adjusters are familiar with cars, and not bikes. 

Sounds like you are handling things nicely so far. Keep us posted.


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

djg21 said:


> I would strongly suggest that you deal with the insurance company directly, and NO, YOU SHOULD NOT AGREE TO SIGN A GENERAL RELEASE. In the odd chance you did incur an injury that is not yet evident, you will want his insurer to cover your medicals and any as-of-now unknown damages
> 
> Don't let the father bully or browbeat you or the bike shop. Deal with the insurer and only the insurer. Demand reimbursement for your entire bike -- if you have the purchase receipt, you are in good shape. If not, you can get a statement from a bike shop as to the replacement cost which most probably will suffice.
> 
> ...


+1...if the OP had been injured I'd advise him to get a lawyer, but he should be able to handle property damage on his own. The insurance co will depreciate the bike so make sure and get an estimate from your LBS for FULL RETAIL. Include anything else damaged (ie clothes, helmet, pump, etc).


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## djg21 (Oct 25, 2003)

cski said:


> Appreciate the nuance you added here. I have been hit a few times and know better now than to try to work it out with the driver, as it seems that most often he then tries to wriggle out when the bill arrives.


Whether in a car or on a bike, it is a BAD IDEA to try to work it out with the other party, and without involving the police and the driver's insurer. Don't say anything to anyone and call the authorities immediately. It is not unusual for drivers to tell you they will pay for damages if you don't call the police and file a report, and then later deny that the accident happened or that they were involved. Why take a chance.

And here. the poster made clear that the driver's father was making excused as to why the son should not be held legally responsible for his negligent driver. There was no working this out. It simply wasn't worth the hassle to engage in dialogue with the driver's father. And if the father's rates went up, it because they should be higher given the risk assumed by the insurer in insuring the father and the son. Why spare him the added expense?


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## Bocephus Jones II (Oct 7, 2004)

Guessing the reason the driver didn't get a summons was because it happened on Mall property instead of city property. Wife was in a similar situation with a fender bender in a parking lot. Cop couldn't issue a ticket because it was private property.


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## jmoryl (Sep 5, 2004)

I had a similar incident in NJ except I was in my car. No injuries, but I had to drive off the road to avoid hitting the other guy turning without looking. The officer told me that since there were no witnesses, it wouldn't be worth my time to press charges and I should try to recoup damages to my car through the other driver's insurance. At least the guy wasn't an ass and admitted fault. In the end, I sent the police report to Allstate and they arranged to get an estimate on my car (coincidentally about $2300); everything was taken care of by the other driver's insurance. Never spoke to the guy after the accident.


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## kevindef (May 19, 2008)

The accident didn't occur on Mall Property. It happened on the street just outside the Mall entrance. The insurance company requested from me a quote from my LBS showing the full value of the bike. I explained to them that the bike is not a stock bike and has been upgraded by quite a bit. They said that was ok, just get a quote for full value. Because I was injured they have escalated to the injury liability section of the company. I have never gone to a doctor because I wasn't seriously injured. They have been REAL curious about what my next step will be. I told told them that I want my bike replaced, but I don't know if that will happen because I initially sent them an estimate for repair of the bike, which includes a new frame. The repair estimate is about half the value of the bike. I will push to have the bike replaced and see what happens. They asked me to send them pictures, which I did. The problem is, it very very difficult to see what is wrong. The frame isn't broken in pieces or twisted. The lbs said they would not advise using the frame since it took a good impact. Also the front wheel is twisted, but you can't really see that in the pictures. I explained to the insurance that the pictures do not really show much. They said that is ok ( of course). I just want to get this resolved so I can get back out and ride.


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## djg21 (Oct 25, 2003)

Get the appraisal/estimate of full replacement value of the bike, and all upgraded parts at full retail, and provide it to the insurer. Let the insurer contact the shop if they have questions. The shop can explain to the adjuster that some of the damage to the frame/fork is not visible, and that an impact could have damaged the integrity of the carbon, rendering the bike unsafe and unusable. 

Regarding medicals, if you are bsolutely sure that you have no injuries, you can offer to sign a general release if the company offers what you believe to be a fair settlement, which could be something more than the bike would cost you were you to buy it new. You can negotiate, but don't go overboard and make what amounts to an unreasonable demand. When a party to a negotiation initially takes an unreasonable position, the other party very well may walk away, and the more reasonable you are from the start, the more comfortable the insurer will be with paying you an amount that will find satisfactory. 

Maybe ask for an additional $1,000. And as another poster said, include the cost of your clothes that were destroyed, your helmet that must be replaced, and any other items that were damaged (for instance, I was hit once and my Blackberry screen was cracked -- the replacement cost for a replacement BB was over $400).

Good luck.


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