# 2011 Allez vs 2011 CAAD10



## newbiie (Sep 21, 2010)

I'm going to be buying my first bike in about 2-3 months and have test rode the
2011 Specialized Allez with SRAM Apex
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCProduct.jsp?spid=52848&scid=1001&scname=Road

and

2011 Cannondale CAAD10 with Shimano 105
http://www.cannondale.com/usa/usaen...CAAD10/Details/2491-1RAX5C48BLK-CAAD-10-5-105

I tested these in a parking lot of some local bike shops so I really couldn't tell the difference in them besides the shifting mechanism (I preferred the SRAM Apex).

From what I've read.... 

The 2011 Allez is redesigned from last year with more aggressive geometry and is suppose to be an aluminum tarmac. In my opinion, the white Allez looks nicer than the CAAD 10. The shop that has this bike will sell it for $1,400 out the door with 2 years of free tune ups.

The CAAD10 is also fully redesigned from last years CAAD9 (which I've read is the best aluminum bike ever built). The CAAD10 is lighter, stiffer, and more responsive than the CAAD9. Is the CAAD10 now the best aluminum bike ever built or does the CAAD9 still hold that title? The look of CAAD10 doesn't look as nice but still looks pretty sweet. The shop that has this bike will sell it for 1,500 and offers LIFETIME tuneups(shop has been around for 20 years or something like that so I'm sure it'll be open for another 10). Too bad this shop doesn't sell Specialized.

Whats your opinion? Is one bike better than the other or are they pretty much the same in terms of quality and performance? 
And is the lifetime tuneup a great deal or would I be able to learn how to fix my bike within a year or two (I would like to learn how to fix my own stuff)?
Can't wait to save up enough money to buy a bike! (my budget is $1,500 for a bike.)
Thanks for reading this long post and for your input!:thumbsup:


----------



## skyliner1004 (May 9, 2010)

is this really a question right now? CAAD10 with Sram Rival. You'll kick yourself in the ass everyday of your life if you dont get what you want right now. You want the CAAD, you want SRAM shifting. its obvious you spend the extra $200 instead of being half-happy for the next few years.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Fit comes first, but in this case because the geo of both bikes is so close, as long as your sizing requirements are met and the fitters set you up on the bikes before test rides, the bikes should fit nearly the same. 

If you haven't yet ridden the bikes out on the road, then you really haven't put them through their paces. Ride both as close to back to back as possible - out on the roads and for some duration (with the same tire pressures). Focus on fit/ feel, ride and handling (along with the control placement and operation) and decide what's best_ for you_. This, IME is the best way to determine you preferences and whittle the field (of two) from there. 

Lastly, while post purchase LBS services are a convenience, by all means learn to do your own wrenching. Among the many benefits, you'll get to _really _know your bike and won't have days of downtime waiting for a 30 minute repair.


----------



## Andreas_Illesch (Jul 9, 2002)

What's the weight of that Allez fork? 
Should be pretty heavy (aluminium crown and steerer and tapered) and I guess lighter alternatives are rare.


----------



## roscoe (Mar 9, 2010)

I wonder if we'll ever see an honest comparo with the newer lightened frame of that allez vs the kool aid tastic (and also lightened and redesigned) CAAD

people are going to jump on the caad wagon who have never even seen this new upgraded allez in person, much less ridden them back to back

really both bikes are probably going to be almost identical, so pick the color you like and/or shimano vs sram


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

roscoe said:


> I wonder if we'll ever see an honest comparo with the newer lightened frame of that allez vs the kool aid tastic (and also lightened and redesigned) CAAD
> 
> people are going to jump on the caad wagon who have never even seen this new upgraded allez in person, much less ridden them back to back
> 
> *really both bikes are probably going to be almost identical, so pick the color you like and/or shimano vs sram*


....and consider which LBS is preferred.


----------



## mmcycle10 (Oct 7, 2010)

Never ridden the Apex stuff. I really like the Rival/Force mix on my CAAD9 though. I think you have narrowed it down to a couple of great aluminum frames. I am partial to CAAD because I just bought one, but for what's it's worth I absolutely love it. It is extremely responsive, yet surprisingly comfortable. I am intrigued by that new Allez, but I'd be surprised if it's as light as the new CAAD frame. I agree with an earlier post that it's worth the extra $$ to go Rival/Force if you get the CAAD. My two cents...


----------



## anthonylokrn (Oct 7, 2010)

Yeah the tuneups from the LBS is meh. They will only tinker with small adjustments here and there but anything more and they will probably charge. Now if it included cleaning & lubing then that would be great lol.

I've never really looked into the pricing of the Cannondale's, but for the Allez, you should be able to get it cheaper than the MSRP.

I know somebody that purchased a '11 Roubaix Elite Apex for $1450, and I just ordered a '11 Roubaix Comp Compact Rival for $1750.


----------



## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

One benefit of the Apex group over Rival or Force is the ability to use a compact crank and an 11-32 cassette in the back. For riders that are more casual, this really opens up the steeper, hillier roads, and makes them manageable. If you are a stronger rider, then there is less point in owning Apex. In that case, I'd stick with Rival or 105.


----------



## Lou3000 (Aug 25, 2010)

Wow, looking at the spec sheets, the bikes are very, very similar aside from aesthetics. Here are my thoughts.

- I don't know if there is really a difference between E5 and CAAD10. I'm not sure why everyone lusts over CAAD. In my opinion it only has followers because it is pretty much the only high end aluminum bike left so you get some elite crit racers that ride them. But up until 2006, E5 was what the Specialized S-Works bikes were still made out of. It isn't some stock aluminum. So, people will disagree, but the frames are going to be very close. Winner: Specialized (because you said you liked the paint job better).

- As for Apex v. 105, I think that 105 is generally regarded as on par with Rival. I have the new 105 and it is pretty legit. Basically last year's Ultegra. However, you said you liked the way SRAM shifted. Winner: Specialized.

- Price. Well, 105 is a better group, and CAAD10 is newer and supposedly better than CAAD9 (or they just had to have new stickers printed for the CAAD9 frames), so really you probably get more for your $1500 than you do for your $1400 Specialized. I think on price the Cannondale wins at $1500, but to be honest, I can't imagine spending $1500+ on an aluminum bike. Spend $400 more and get a carbon Felt. Winner: Felt F5.

So what is the question? You like the Specialized more, but you are worried that you will be missing out on something if you don't get CAAD? 

Also, it is important that you like your LBS because as a new roadie, you will be in the shop from time to time for problems that you can't handle, but most of the free tuneups offered by an LBS consist of adjusting derailleurs and brakes. You will still pay for any job that takes more than 10.


----------



## Lou3000 (Aug 25, 2010)

Why would you not be able to use a compact crank with 105 or Rival? I run a compact with 105.


----------



## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

Lou3000 said:


> Why would you not be able to use a compact crank with 105 or Rival? I run a compact with 105.


I think the key to what he/she said was "and an 11-32 cassette in the back". Not sure it that's true or not either but I think the person was talking about the combo not just a compact.

Though I can't imagine the ability to have a 32 in back of a compact is an attraction to anyone who doesn't climb Mt. Washington as a routine ride or is new to biking fitness in the exteme.


----------



## mmcycle10 (Oct 7, 2010)

> Spend $400 more and get a carbon Felt


Felt isn't even in the conversation here...not to mention you're blowing his budget by 25% for a bike that is not likely to be much lighter than either of the aluminum frames listed. At best, the F5 may be a couple hundred grams lighter than a similarly equiped CAAD10. Is that worth $500?



> I can't imagine spending $1500+ on an aluminum bike


Do you race? A lot of people don't want to have to spend $1500+ just to replace a carbon frame that breaks. Aluminum bikes north of $1500 are going to come with groups that justify that price (i.e. SRAM Rival/Force, Ultegra, DA). There is a reason Cannondale markets these...


----------



## Lou3000 (Aug 25, 2010)

mmcycle10 said:


> Do you race?


Does the OP? 

Yeah it is slightly above his budget, but I think for a new rider, with a budget close to $1500, unless you are racing crits, it would be worth it to consider some of the $2000 carbon options. Tarmac Apex, Madone 3.1, Felt F5, Cannondale Six 105, etc. Also, I didn't say that spending $1500 on an aluminum bike was dumb, just that I wouldn't. BUT for the record, the Felt F5 frame weighs 900 grams with a 370 gram fork and the CAAD 10 frame weighs 1150 grams with a 390 gram fork. 

I also think I answered the originally question before I suggest some similar carbon bikes. I was trying to suggest to the poster that these message boards fawn over Cannondale, and the only real reason seems to be that no one else makes aluminum race bikes. The OP shouldn't be afraid to get the Specialized if he likes it.

Oh, for what its worth, I would choose the Cannondale. I don't like double tap, and I like the CAAD 10 black paint scheme. I have not ridden the Cannondale, but it has to be more comfortable than the old aluminum SWorks Spec. (M4) I used to ride.


----------



## mmcycle10 (Oct 7, 2010)

> Yeah it is slightly above his budget, but I think for a new rider, with a budget close to $1500, unless you are racing crits, it would be worth it to consider some of the $2000 carbon options. Tarmac Apex, Madone 3.1, Felt F5, Cannondale Six 105, etc.


Agreed. The OP is in a situation almost identical to the one I was just in. I actually looked at several of the bikes you listed above, but ultimately went with the CAAD as it was almost as light as most of those bikes, plus quite a bit less to replace the frame(considering I will race this bike).

Assuming the OP won't be racing, he is in a tough spot with his budget. If $1500 is the absolute max, then he's narrowed it down to two of the very best options possible...IMO. If he can eek out another $500 (consider tax as well) then he can move up to CF. But again, that's a pretty big jump in the budget.

FYI...early reviews on the Apex look positive (see BikeRadar). I think you have a tough choice. Have you considered finding a new 2010 model to save some $$$? Good luck!


----------



## roscoe (Mar 9, 2010)

also consider, those cheaper carbon options are likely to be heavier than the CAAD10 or the Allez

just because it's carbon doesn't mean it's light


----------



## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

Hank Stamper said:


> I think the key to what he/she said was "and an 11-32 cassette in the back". Not sure it that's true or not either but I think the person was talking about the combo not just a compact.
> 
> Though I can't imagine the ability to have a 32 in back of a compact is an attraction to anyone who doesn't climb Mt. Washington as a routine ride or is new to biking fitness in the exteme.


It's true. SRAM has an 11-32 with compact on their Apex group. I'm curious as to what type of shifting is happening with gears spread out so much. Seems like shifts won't be that smooth. I'll stay with my Dura Ace 7803 triple thank you.


----------



## Lou3000 (Aug 25, 2010)

roscoe said:


> also consider, those cheaper carbon options are likely to be heavier than the CAAD10 or the Allez
> 
> just because it's carbon doesn't mean it's light


Agreed, of the bikes I listed only the Felt discloses weight (and I can't remember if that was pre or post paint or what size it was). The Felt is about 300 grams lighter according to their weights.

That said, the Trek felt very heavy, then the Specialized, and I never rode the Cannondale.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Lou3000 said:


> _The Felt is about 300 grams lighter* according to their weights*._


...which I would take with more than a grain of salt.


----------



## crumjack (Sep 11, 2005)

I believe Felt lists their frame weights without paint, derailleur hanger, etc. Could be one of those internet rumors but be aware that claimed weights are just claims.

For the OP, I like both bikes and they are on my short list (after being on a Giant TCR carbon for the past two years). Get whichever bike feels best to you and speaks to you aesthetically.


----------



## newbiie (Sep 21, 2010)

Lou3000 said:


> - Winner: Specialized (because you said you liked the paint job better).
> - you said you liked the way SRAM shifted. Winner: Specialized.
> So what is the question? You like the Specialized more, but you are worried that you will be missing out on something if you don't get CAAD?
> .


First off I wouldn't get a carbon frame because I've read that they can crack from any mishap such as the frame falling over from a stand still; I can imagine what will happen if I lay it down while riding it. So from my point of view, its better to get a really good aluminum frame which is a little more tough because I'm a new to this so its a matter of time before it hits the pavement.

I like the SRAM double tap for its simplicity, one lever to shift. When I was test riding the CAAD10 (which really isnt test riding because it was back in forth in a straight line in a little parking lot and the most I shifted was like 3 gears) I kept braking when I tried to shift and it got on my nerves lol but I think that's because I just need to get used to shifting without pulling the brake. But the SRAM shifting is a winner for me. Another question on the apex vs 105, does the 11-32 seemed spaced out too much? It has lower lows and higher highs than the 12-27 of the 105 and I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I won't be racing and will probably for the most part ride flat land (I live in southern ca and there isn't much hilly stuff out here that I know of); the most mountainous ride I've heard of over here is GMR loop
http://incycle.com/articles/gmr-azusa-canyon-loop-pg324.htm or up in Big Bear but for the most part I believe it will be city cycling. And another thing, I'm in shape if that matters for gearing.
***EDIT*** just noticed the Allez comes with an 11-28, not 11-32

And you got it spot on. I like the Specialized more but I'm worried that the CAAD10 has a lot more to offer but I just don't know it since I'm a newbiie. But from reading a few of the post in here, it seems that the new Allez is on par with the CAAD10.



crumjack said:


> Get whichever bike feels best to you and speaks to you aesthetically.


The Allez speaks to me aesthetically because it has a curved top tube and the CAAD doesn't. lol


----------



## terrapin4 (Aug 2, 2009)

newbiie said:


> http://incycle.com/articles/gmr-azusa-canyon-loop-pg324.htm or up in Big Bear but for the most part I believe it will be city cycling. And another thing, I'm in shape if that matters for gearing.
> ***EDIT*** just noticed the Allez comes with an 11-28, not 11-32
> 
> And you got it spot on. I like the Specialized more but I'm worried that the CAAD10 has a lot more to offer but I just don't know it since I'm a newbiie. But from reading a few of the post in here, it seems that the new Allez is on par with the CAAD10.
> ...


so you're a so cal rider? i tested the caad9 and allez last year at incycle, and wound up getting the allez elite, with a compact 105 crank. everything about it just felt better, and while i realize that the caad9 was supposed to the ultra-stiff race rocket, the allez seemed much more responsive during accelerations. that was also 2009, not 2011, so i can't speak for the redesigns.

the gearing is all about your ability. with the compact crank i only rarely used the 28 cog in the back. and yes, there are lots of hilly rides out here if you know where to go. head up from claremont to the baldy ski lifts, or try going to the top of mountain avenue in claremont if you want to test your legs on a few 20% + sections. if you're in good climbing shape, you shouldn't really need the 32 cog from the sram group.


----------



## DMR79 (Oct 17, 2010)

I actually am looking at exactly the same two bikes and have almost the same feelings. will be mostly riding for fitness and some with a group on long rides. Would love to get into racing, but not sure if that will happen, or not. I had a Specialized Allez back in 2001, loved it, but ended up having to get away from riding (long story) and sold it, but now am getting back into it. I have a Specialized Hardrock MTB that I just ride around for fun and also love it as well. Almost everything inside of me says to go with the Specialized, but there is just some small thing that keeps me wondering if I'd ultimately be happier with the CADD 10. 

Another question not posed on here yet is about the Specialized BG Fit. my LBS is certified in it, is it worth it to pay for the 2d, or 3d fit session? They include the basic BG fit when buying a bike from them. I'm just not sure if I'd gain anything from performance by getting such an in depth level of fitting. I do have IT Band issues in one of my knees, so I'm not sure if that would help with that going through a fit like is offered in the 2d, or 3d.


----------



## DMR79 (Oct 17, 2010)

anthonylokrn said:


> Yeah the tuneups from the LBS is meh. They will only tinker with small adjustments here and there but anything more and they will probably charge. Now if it included cleaning & lubing then that would be great lol.
> 
> I've never really looked into the pricing of the Cannondale's, but for the Allez, you should be able to get it cheaper than the MSRP.
> 
> I know somebody that purchased a '11 Roubaix Elite Apex for $1450, and I just ordered a '11 Roubaix Comp Compact Rival for $1750.



Where did you find that pricing? If you don't mind me asking.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

DMR79 said:


> ...Another question not posed on here yet is about the Specialized BG Fit. my LBS is certified in it, is it worth it to pay for the 2d, or 3d fit session? They include the basic BG fit when buying a bike from them. I'm just not sure if I'd gain anything from performance by getting such an in depth level of fitting. I do have IT Band issues in one of my knees, so I'm not sure if that would help with that going through a fit like is offered in the 2d, or 3d.


I suggest discussing this with the LBS fitter. The link below is to Spec's BG FIT website. Once you begin, you'll see a bar with red 'steps' If you hold the cursor over them, information will display on certain aspects of the fit process. They do cover hip/ leg/ foot placement, but at which point I don't know. Consider asking for the standard BG FIT initially (at time of purchase) and get a price on the 2nd and 3rd steps to be scheduled after you've had some time with the new bike.

http://cdn.specialized.com/bc/microsite/bgfit/bgfit.html#/Experience

IT band issues can occur when saddles are positioned too far back (stretching the band), incorrect cleat setup, inadaquate cadence, lack of pre-ride stretching and/ or overuse, so IMO you should discuss this with the fitter during initial fit. Anyone certified in the BG fit process should be knowledgeable in setting you up to avoid (or at least miimize) the fit related aspects.


----------



## DMR79 (Oct 17, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> I suggest discussing this with the LBS fitter. The link below is to Spec's BG FIT website. Once you begin, you'll see a bar with red 'steps' If you hold the cursor over them, information will display on certain aspects of the fit process. They do cover hip/ leg/ foot placement, but at which point I don't know. Consider asking for the standard BG FIT initially (at time of purchase) and get a price on the 2nd and 3rd steps to be scheduled after you've had some time with the new bike.
> 
> http://cdn.specialized.com/bc/microsite/bgfit/bgfit.html#/Experience
> 
> IT band issues can occur when saddles are positioned too far back (stretching the band), incorrect cleat setup, inadaquate cadence, lack of pre-ride stretching and/ or overuse, so IMO you should discuss this with the fitter during initial fit. Anyone certified in the BG fit process should be knowledgeable in setting you up to avoid (or at least miimize) the fit related aspects.



Thanks, I had watched that video on their site before, also watched this one as well;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrH1k_v9Mh0

I really like Specialized as a company, I think they have a lot to offer the rider and they seem to really be about end user happiness and value. Like I said I loved the Allez I had before and I will most likely go with another one of their bikes, I've just got to make up my mind for sure. 

The other issue that I did not mention earlier that is also on my mind is rather, or not to opt for a carbon bike now. I wanted to stay around a $1500 budget and my thinking was to buy the Allez Comp Compact M2 Apex now and then look at getting a Roubaix, or maybe a Tarmac in a year, or two. I know carbon is going to give me a much smoother ride, but I'm not 100% sure how much that would translate into that noticeable of difference in performance for me right now, not having really of ridden a carbon before. I've heard it's very noticeable if I was going from carbon to aluminum, but not as much going from aluminum to carbon.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

The topic of frame materials is highly subjective, and we don't want to hijack this thread, but suffice to say that (IMO) intended uses (and price range) should dictate the choice of frame materials. Alu is light, stiff and cheap, making it a good choice for entry level bikes and racing. Steel has a slight weight penalty, but has that 'steel is real' ride quality, with CF having most of the attributes of both, but costs more initially and if repairs are needed.

IME test rides are the best way to determine your preferences. Riding alu and CF back to back, you may find that the difference isn't enough to justify the added cost, but you probably won't know until you ride both.


----------



## newbiie (Sep 21, 2010)

well I just test rode the Allez again and the CAAD9 (not caad10) and decided the APEX shifting is nice but overall, the 105 shifted smoother/faster and was quieter as well so I will not be getting the Allez. 

They are trying to sell me a caad9-5 (105 groupset) for 1300 and the caad9-5 looks pretty damn nice. I don't know if that's a good deal since the CAAD10 is about 100-200 dollars more expensive but is lighter, stiffer, and has the new 105 which is supposed to be last year Ultegra. I dont know how true that is. The CAAD9 in charcoal grey looks so nice, much better than the CAAD10. I dont know which one I should get now, CAAD 9 or 10. If i want the 9 ill have to put $50 down for 90 day lay-away, enough time to save up money.

Another thing, I test rode the CAAD9 for about 20 min with a stock seat, some other seat the LBS suggested, and the ADAMO Road saddle which is suppose to be the most comfortable seat ever but god, they all hurt like hell. The ADAMO was a little more comfortable but damn, the discomfort is one thing that kind of made me think twice about buying a road bike. 

anywho, thanks for the comments, keep em coming


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

newbiie said:


> Another thing, I test rode the CAAD9 for about 20 min with a stock seat, some other seat the LBS suggested, and the ADAMO Road saddle which is suppose to be the most comfortable seat ever but god, they all hurt like hell. The ADAMO was a little more comfortable but damn, *the discomfort is one thing that kind of made me think twice about buying a road bike*.
> 
> anywho, thanks for the comments, keep em coming


Did you wear cycling specific (padded) shorts for your test rides? If not, then that's likely your answer. If you did, then you may not (yet) have found_ your _saddle and/ or saddle position wasn't correctly set.


----------



## mmcycle10 (Oct 7, 2010)

Go to the Cannondale section...there is a thread debating the merits of CAAD10 vs. CAAD9. I just bought a CAAD9 because I could get a better deal. I ended up with a CAAD9-4 that comes with a nice SRAM mix of Rival and Force (crank). Got a deal since it is a 2010...a no brainer for me. If you like the SRAM shifting (which you've indicated in earlier posts) I would see about that. FWIW, by LBS actually ordered a brand new 2010 from the warehouse in Pennsylvania. You might ask your's to give them a call and see what's left over...


----------



## Jay03GT (Jul 13, 2010)

JMO, but there is more to a test ride than pedaling around a parking lot or around the block. Try to go put 20 or 30 miles on it. Ride it with your saddle, so your impressions are not changed by the saddle. The CAAD bikes are really nice bikes, but you will feel the stiffness. Every bike has it's tradeoffs, so finding what you are looking for can take time. I will say though, it may be worth spending a little more for a full carbon bike. Light, almost as stiff, and more forgiving in ride quality (usually). Take one out for a good ride. You might love it and decide to wait a bit, or hate it and buy a CAAD or Allez. Half the fun is the shopping, right?


----------



## newbiie (Sep 21, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> Did you wear cycling specific (padded) shorts for your test rides? If not, then that's likely your answer. If you did, then you may not (yet) have found_ your _saddle and/ or saddle position wasn't correctly set.


No I didn't wear cycling shorts, the dude said it makes a huge difference, I kind of thought he was just trying to make me buy the bike on the spot.lol but since then, I've learned that it does make a huge difference.

I know this is about CAAD vs Allez but I've stumbled upon a Felt,Giant, and Bianchi, with Bianchi really catching my attention.

$1,150 http://www.feltbicycles.com/USA/2011/Road/Z-Series/Z85.aspx
The felt looks pretty cool and has some Shimano 105. It seems to have a FSA Vero Compact crank; I looked it up and and read that it was pretty cheap stuff compared to the 105. any thoughts on this?

$1,300 http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/coast-to-coast/via-nirone-7/via-nirone-7-105/
the bike that really caught my eye is the Bianchi Via Nirone 7 105. first off, the bike looks amazing. Second, it has FSA Omega MegaExo compact. I called the LBS to ask about the FSA Omega MegoExo and they said it's pretty much the equivalent of a 105 compact. Is this true? if it is, the Bianchi is definitely on my list 

$1,300 http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/defy/7307/44047/
Bike looks descent and has a full 105 drivetrain unlike the two above.

How well do these stack up against the CAAD10(105 with FSA Gossamer/BB30) or CAAD9 in terms of specs/performance and how much of a difference is the ride between the CAAD's and the ones I just posted since it seems to me they are more "relaxed" geometry than the CAAD. As for now, it seems like it is CAAD10 vs Bianchi Via Nirone 7 105.

Thanks for you input... and sorry for all the newbiie questions but I just want to make a good purchase that I don't regret.


----------



## DMR79 (Oct 17, 2010)

I can tell you after riding the bikes you originally mentioned and being on an allez previously I ended up going with a Trek Madone 4.5, it's more than your original budget, but I really like the ride, confident, performance oriented and still comfortable. A close second and one I would also have been happy with was a Felt F5, no pun intended it felt very good, very confidence inspiring ride, still responsive, but very stable. The reason I chose the Madone was the difference that I felt when I really got onto it, the Madone seemed to have more snap. A local LBS had a 2010 Felt F5 for $1850, I actually liked the paint scheme on the 2010 more than the 2011, however the 2011 has the new 105 setup vs the old. The Madone has the new setup on it as it is a 2011. Good luck on deciding what to go with, when you find the right bike you will know, if you don't yet know then you have not found the right bike IMO.


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

If you were going to make a purchasing decision based on crankset alone, I'd suggest the Giant Defy, but IMO that's not the reason to buy a bike. 

FWIW, you're looking at two different type of bikes. The Giant and Felt both have what's commonly referred to as relaxed geometry, meaning the head tube is somewhat taller allowing for a slightly more upright riding position and (usually) wheelbase is somewhat longer. The Bianchi and CAAD both have race geo, with shorter head tubes and shorter wheelbase for a more aggressive riding position and quicker handling. 

The amount of differences (between relaxed and race geo) varies among brands, but generally speaking the CAAD and Bianchi should handle slightly quicker than the other two, although the Felt is close to race geo. The Giant, more relaxed.

I think it might be wise to take a step back and try to define the type of road bike you're interested in - race or relaxed. After that decision is made, test ride the bikes of interest - out on the roads and for some duration, and base your decision on what fits/ feels, rides and handles the way you like. If you can do the test rides back to back and with tire pressures equalized, all the better. IME that's the best way to get a sense of the different character of the bikes.


----------



## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

From what I've learned about you so far, my gut tells me you would get the most out of the Giant. A fine bike. Would be comfortable, handle well and give you the most enjoyment and bang for your buck. 
Looking back, I should have started on a bike like that, then went for the racier caad.
I'd still like to have one of those for those long base rides.


----------



## newbiie (Sep 21, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> The amount of differences (between relaxed and race geo) varies among brands, but generally speaking the CAAD and Bianchi should handle slightly quicker than the other two, although the Felt is close to race geo. The Giant, more relaxed.
> 
> I think it might be wise to take a step back and try to define the type of road bike you're interested in - race or relaxed.


I actually thought the Bianchi Nirone 7 was "relaxed" because it is under the "coast to coast" section of their website, which I would believe is relaxed geo right? If it is a relaxed geo, good, and if it is a race geo, even better(kind of hoping its more race than relaxed).

and as for the crankset, would it be possible to upgrade the crank to a shimano 105 or gossamer/bb30 later on? I swear I read a thread on the Felt section saying their lower end models are not compatible/upgradeable with other cranks but for the love of god I cant find the thread. Somebody aware me if I misread that. If it's possible to upgrade the crank to the new 105/bb30 stuff, the Bianchi is overtaking the CAAD10 on my list.

And as for the suggestion of getting the Trek Madone 4.5, thats just way out of my price range. I know it seems like I can just throw the few extra hundred and its a done deal but I'm having to convince myself to spend 1,500, let alone 2,000. 

$1,500 for CAAD 10
$130 ISM saddle http://www.ismseat.com/products_century.htm
$50cycling shorts
thats $1,680...pushing the boundary of my menial paychecks

$1,300 for Bianchi Via Nirone 7
$130 for ISM saddle
$50 cycling shorts
$150 for clipless pedals & shoes
that's 1,630 and I get pedals + shoes.

Ill probably be able to get a 100 off or so from either purchase but that just shows that the Bianchi is looking like a good deal so far(although I have not "tested" it yet around the block like I did with the CAAD). 

Such long post for someone who doesn't even have a bike yet...


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Bianchi can call the Nirone anything they want, but IMO the geo is race. It's not as aggressive as the CAAD, but still race.

Of the bikes listed, any with the BB30 designation can be converted to use Shimano cranksets with the use of either a press in cartridge bearing or a type of sleeve. Any BB's that do not have the BB30 designation cannot use a BB30 type system. To my knowledge, Felts are no different.

Lastly, you aren't going to tell much about a bike with a ride around the block. After getting sized/ fitted, get any of interest out on the road to get a feel for the ride and handling. Even bar shapes and shifter operation/ placement can play a role in determining what works best for you. Ride, then decide.


----------



## newbiie (Sep 21, 2010)

PJ352 said:


> Bianchi can call the Nirone anything they want, but IMO the geo is race. It's not as aggressive as the CAAD, but still race.
> 
> Of the bikes listed, any with the BB30 designation can be converted to use Shimano cranksets with the use of either a press in cartridge bearing or a type of sleeve. Any BB's that do not have the BB30 designation cannot use a BB30 type system. To my knowledge, Felts are no different.
> 
> Lastly, you aren't going to tell much about a bike with a ride around the block. After getting sized/ fitted, get any of interest out on the road to get a feel for the ride and handling. Even bar shapes and shifter operation/ placement can play a role in determining what works best for you. Ride, then decide.


I'm glad to hear that it's race geo.

So if I get the Bianchi with the FSA Omega MegaExo Compact, what would I be able to upgrade to in the future, no BB30 or 105(or ultegra/DA since the new 105 is compatible)?
and how much of a difference would I be able to notice between the Bianchi crankset and the BB30 stuff. 
Thanks PJ352, you're so helpful!


----------



## crumjack (Sep 11, 2005)

I'll add in that saddles can be an extreme personal preference. What works great for me may be a nightmare for you. If a shop is pushing a certain saddle, see if you can demo it for a weekend to try to determine if its the one for you(after you buy a bike, of course).


----------



## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

newbiie said:


> I'm glad to hear that it's race geo.
> 
> *So if I get the Bianchi with the FSA Omega MegaExo Compact, what would I be able to upgrade to in the future*, no BB30 or 105(or ultegra/DA since the new 105 is compatible)?
> and how much of a difference would I be able to notice between the Bianchi crankset and the BB30 stuff.
> Thanks PJ352, you're so helpful!


If you get the Bianchi you'll be able to use any crankset/ BB that's compatible with a 68mm/ english threaded BB shell. That would include the current crop of Shimano Hollowtech ll's. No BB30's. They used to stamp 68 on the shell, I don't know if they still do.

IMO except for possibly minimal weight loss, you'd see no difference running a BB30 crankset over the FSA. If history is any indicator, you _will_ see a difference in reliability going to a Shimano crankset/ BB, but if you go for the Bianchi, run the OEM crankset until the BB wears out.


----------



## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

crumjack said:


> I'll add in that saddles can be an extreme personal preference. What works great for me may be a nightmare for you. If a shop is pushing a certain saddle, see if you can demo it for a weekend to try to determine if its the one for you(after you buy a bike, of course).


+1..... My Felt FA was being built up and everyone I've spoken with told me that the Fizik Airone was the saddle to have. I dished out the cash for one and it was one of the worst saddles I've evr ridden. I was so uncomfortable. I found comfort in the Selle Italia Flite- which also costs about 1/3 less than the Fizik. That's my experience. Another thing I would recommend is to tough it out with the saddle you have until it breaks in. Most won't agree with me but I did that with my other Felt (the F1 Sprint). After about 500 miles, I started to feel comfort in the saddle. With 4,000 miles it just feels great. This was the first bike I had ever done that on but the OEM Felt saddle feels nice to me.


----------



## EhoZ (Oct 31, 2010)

*Choose What You want!!!*

But, I think CAAD10 is better than Allez.

in my opinion
Without High-end bikes(Include S-Works), Specialized's bikes are soso.


----------



## srh04 (May 1, 2008)

All I can offer you in this debate is actual riding time on these frames. Long time CAAD9 rider, but currently riding 2011 Spec Allez E5 frame as my main ride. The Allez is no CAAD9 nor CAAD10 (limited riding on this so far). Allez really let down by the alloy steerer in the fork. Adds significant weight and you can feel it on the road. It's the same when you ride a low end CAAD9 with the alloy steerer, but not as bad as the Allez. The CAAD9 with full carbon fork is the best choice. The overall ride of the E5 feels harsher, especially in the rear end. Not going to offer some BS about relative stiffness. Not strong enough or rate myself good enough to be able to tell. Only spent limited time on the CAAD10 so far, and not with wheels and finishing kit I know, so no comment yet. Hope this helps with your choice. None of these would be a bad choice, but I would just rate the CAAD9 or 10 as better.


----------



## T K (Feb 11, 2009)

I just talked to a big Specialized dealer and asked him about the new Allez. He just shook his head no. He said they are not made of great tubing, not even butted. They are heavy too. Basically just trying to look like a Tarmac. The old Allezs were soo much better when they they were actually trying to make a high end aluminum race bike. Not a bike that just looks like a high end race bike for the low end of the market.


----------



## newbiie (Sep 21, 2010)

srh04 said:


> None of these would be a bad choice, but I would just rate the CAAD9 or 10 as better.


this is what I've been thinking. The Bianchi Via Nirone has caught my eye so it's between the Nirone and CAAD series, although I am leaning towards the CAAD since I've read nothing but great reviews on the CAAD9 but can barely find any reviews on the Nirone. The local bike shop is discounting the 2010 CAAD9 from 1500 to 1300, which I still think is pretty expensive for being last years model and having "old" shimano 105 vs this years new shimano. What's the lowest you guys think I can get the shop to lower the CAAD9 and CAAD10 to and is there a big difference in old vs the new shimano 105? this will most likely be the deciding factor.


----------



## roscoe (Mar 9, 2010)

my local mini chain advertises $1400 on the caad10-5, $1200 on leftover9-5's 

those aren't crazy cheap or the lowest you're likely to find if you shop/negotiate hard, I'd imagine having your local guys match that would be easy (this particular mini chain has 15% off sales on certain holidays as well, so you I'd imagine those prices minus a 15% discount would be about as cheap as you could get)


----------



## wedge962005 (Jan 4, 2010)

CAAD 10 all day. I love mine. It is much better than the CAAD 9. Stiffer, smoother in the saddle and steers better. All over a better bike. I prefer it over the Spec as well. If you work at it you should be able to get the Rival equiped CAAD10-4 model for that 1400 or 1500.


----------



## skyliner1004 (May 9, 2010)

wedge962005 said:


> CAAD 10 all day. I love mine. It is much better than the CAAD 9. Stiffer, smoother in the saddle and steers better. All over a better bike. I prefer it over the Spec as well. If you work at it you should be able to get the Rival equiped CAAD10-4 model for that 1400 or 1500.


typical user post of a guy praising his own bike and sayings its the best.

the caad10 is 99% identical to the caad9. in a blind test you will not notice the difference between a 9/10 in stiffness or smoothness given all else is the same.


----------



## mmcycle10 (Oct 7, 2010)

> the caad10 is 99% identical to the caad9. in a blind test you will not notice the difference between a 9/10 in stiffness or smoothness given all else is the same.


+1

I've ridden them both. I bought the CAAD9 at a discount. To me it's a no brainer...get the better deal while they have any left (and $2-300 off MSRP on a 9-5 is not a bad deal IMO). And yes, the CAAD10 is 200g lighter. But to say it "steers better" or is "smoother in the saddle" is pretty objective if you ask me.


----------



## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

I've ridden both to prove the CAAD9 was actually better than the 10. I argued with a firend of mine about this so we settled it by riding both of them. We went to his bike shop and tried them them out. Hey if it's not "Made in the USA" it can't be better right? Wrong. There was a difference between the 9 and the 10. Both were the 1 models and had specs that are very close. It's not a huge difference but a noticeable difference nonetheless. the 10 actually rides better than my Felt F1 Sprint carbon rig. Then again so did the 9. Regardless of which CAAD you bought, you have an awesome machine.


----------



## Weav (Jun 21, 2009)

Tell the LBS that you want the CAAD10 with SRAM Apex. I think 105 is priced higher than Apex so the LBS should be happy to do this, even if he doesn't cut you a break on price it would be worth getting what you want from the get go.


----------



## roscoe (Mar 9, 2010)

Weav said:


> Tell the LBS that you want the CAAD10 with SRAM Apex. I think 105 is priced higher than Apex so the LBS should be happy to do this, even if he doesn't cut you a break on price it would be worth getting what you want from the get go.


yeah, asking the LBS to take the apex group from the allez comp and swap it with the 105 stuff from the 10-5 would probably be something they'd love to do :thumbsup: 

the cost of making that swap would probably be more in labor charges than just buying the 10-4 with rival (if the shop would even consider doing it for you)


----------



## Weav (Jun 21, 2009)

roscoe said:


> yeah, asking the LBS to take the apex group from the allez comp and swap it with the 105 stuff from the 10-5 would probably be something they'd love to do :thumbsup:
> 
> the cost of making that swap would probably be more in labor charges than just buying the 10-4 with rival (if the shop would even consider doing it for you)


I understand they are two different shops. Depends on how bad the CAAD dealer wants to earn his business.


----------



## roscoe (Mar 9, 2010)

Weav said:


> I understand they are two different shops. Depends on how bad the CAAD dealer wants to earn his business.


even if it was the same shop, that's a crazy request 

when a shipment of bikes arrive, it's not as if there's a crate of frames and a crate of groupsets for them to make bikes in whatever combination they see fit 

the groupsets that come with the bikes are much cheaper than a groupset sold as parts, (notice how buying a frame, wheels and groupset separately add up to way more than the cost of buying the same parts as an assembled bike)


----------



## Weav (Jun 21, 2009)

Hey, a shop did it for me... just sayin'


----------

