# SuperSix paint crack (pics)



## MondoRock (Jul 28, 2009)

I noticed this crack on the top tube over the weekend. The crack starts on the left side of the "System Integration" logo and extends down the left side of the top tube between the letters "T" and "U" in word "Tube". I took it to the bike shop and they felt it was a paint crack and that no frame damage has occurred. They marked it with a sliver marker and asked that I continue to ride it and monitor to see if it gets any worse. 

I purchased this bike new in August last year (2010 SuperSix 2) so it's barely 8 months old. The bike shop said paint cracks are covered for 1 year and they could ship my frame off to be repaired by Cannondale.

I would like any input as to what might be causing the paint to crack and any advice what I should do? My first thought was the frame was cracking underneath. Has anyone experienced cracking in this same location (top tube)?

I take really good care of my bike, always stored indoors, never crashed, no potholes hit, never really put much stress on the bike at all. I'm 5'10, 168 lbs. Thanks for any feedback.


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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

First time seeing this on the China made Super Six. I believe we something similar on the US made Super Six. Send it back to the factory. If it's structural then you'll get a new frame. Don't take chances. Can you imagine if the head tube separated from the top tube on a descent or sprint? Not good. 

Be safe and send it back.

C.


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## jlyle (Jul 20, 2007)

Tap the tubing and listen for a dull thud - if the frame isn't cracked, it will ring.


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## MondoRock (Jul 28, 2009)

Thanks for the replies. The sound is more dull if I tap on the cracked area compared to an inch down the top tube (closer to the seat). I don't hear the ringing sound until I get an inch away from the Si logo. Hard for me to tell if it's the crack or just the increased support of the head tube.

The bike shop also tapped on the cracked area and felt it was not structural. They said they've replaced over 200 carbon frames this year alone so they know when a frame is cracked. They said that a crack wouldn't occur in this area. I don't know what to think because something is causing the paint to crack. I have 1,518 miles on the bike.


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## edscueth (Jul 12, 2008)

Personally, as a ealier person mentioned, I wouldn't take the chance! Keep in mind with carbon, typically when it cracks it cracks - so although they marked it with a marker, you most likely won't see the crack increase because the next time it cracks it will probably be a total failure. If its under warranty send it back!


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## CHL (Jun 24, 2005)

There's two things to think abot here. First and foremost is your safefty. You simply cannot afford to take that chance. Second, this seriously affects the value of the bike. While you might risk the chance of the bike breaking under you, I doubt that most prospective buyers will take that chance. Paint crack on a carbon frame raises eyebrows.

Please have the bike repaired. You stand nothing to lose and in fact have a legitimate claim. Cannondale warranties the paint for a year. Have it repaired or replaced. There shouldn't be any resistance on the dealer's part. You are following the warranty guide lines to the letter.

You might be without your bike for some time but it's better than not being able to ride because you're in the hospital for an equal length of time.

C.


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## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

Sucks that happened...I agree to have Cannondale inspect it.

If they do warranty it...the wait is going to suck. I don't see how Cannondale can make someone go without their bike for so long...especially if its a defect on their side. Really turns me off on getting another one.

I don't agree on that not being a major stress area. When your up off the saddle and mashing...the twisting of the headtube is all in that area. The top tube is whats resisting the lateral flex on the head tube.


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## MondoRock (Jul 28, 2009)

Thanks everyone. I'm convinced. I will take it in today and have the bike ship ship to Cannondale. Now that I'm going through the trouble of shipping it off I'm really hoping Cannondale replaces the frame.

Time to dust off the mountain bike.


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

Good call Mondorock just to be on the safe side rather sorry should any thing happen during the rider. What that a hi-mod version?


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## MondoRock (Jul 28, 2009)

It is the non-Hi Mod version, SuperSix 2 (SRAM Red).


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Please post up-dates as things progress. Very curious about the comment that Cannondale may re-paint the bike if it is only a paint crack. I have had some shops say that Cannondale is still set up to make paint repairs in Bedford while other shops say that Cannondale no longer has paint equipment in Bedford. A "Cannondale Warranty Center" is part of the corporate label stamped on Bedford, so who knows. Maybe they do still have a paint booth there.


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## MondoRock (Jul 28, 2009)

I sure will. Looks like I need to take it to the bike shop I purchased it from to avoid shipping return charges. I will get it to them tomorrow as they are closed on Mondays. Thanks again for everyone's interest.


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## bon_gabs (Feb 2, 2010)

+1:thumbsup: 


CHL said:


> There's two things to think abot here. First and foremost is your safefty. You simply cannot afford to take that chance. Second, this seriously affects the value of the bike. While you might risk the chance of the bike breaking under you, I doubt that most prospective buyers will take that chance. Paint crack on a carbon frame raises eyebrows.
> 
> Please have the bike repaired. You stand nothing to lose and in fact have a legitimate claim. Cannondale warranties the paint for a year. Have it repaired or replaced. There shouldn't be any resistance on the dealer's part. You are following the warranty guide lines to the letter.
> 
> ...


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## MondoRock (Jul 28, 2009)

I took my bike in today so we'll see what happens. I sure hope it's a quick resolution. I'll keep everyone updated. Thanks again for all the great feedback.


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## MondoRock (Jul 28, 2009)

Today was the 18th day since I took my bike in and still no word from Cannondale. Any idea what the typical turnaround time is for getting a response? My bike shop said 2-3 weeks but I'm getting very anxious for an update.


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## Devastator (May 11, 2009)

MondoRock said:


> Today was the 18th day since I took my bike in and still no word from Cannondale. Any idea what the typical turnaround time is for getting a response? My bike shop said 2-3 weeks but I'm getting very anxious for an update.


It depends, are they waiting for a Cannondale rep to come by and inspect the paint? Or did they determine it was a warranty issue?


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## MondoRock (Jul 28, 2009)

Devastator said:


> It depends, are they waiting for a Cannondale rep to come by and inspect the paint? Or did they determine it was a warranty issue?


I believe they determined it is a warranty issue and LBS was authorized to send in for inspection. Bike was disassembled and the frame sent in to Cannondale.


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## Devastator (May 11, 2009)

MondoRock said:


> They determined it was a warranty issue. Bike was disassembled and the frame sent in to Cannondale.


So they didnt tell you what replacement you are getting? I thought at the time it is determined a warranty they let you know whats in they are sending you to replace it, essentially whats in stock. On both warranties, I did they told me after inspecting the bike it was a warranty issue and they would be sending me a Supersix. Your LBS should know what they are receiving for your Super. Should be the same frame or better.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

The OP stated the cracked frame was a Super Six 2. The Super 2 was a standard mod so I would expect that it will be replaced with same. 
Owners in this situation always have the option to pay more and get the warranty upgrade. Of course its difficult to justify paying more for what is essentially the same frame.


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## MondoRock (Jul 28, 2009)

Devastator said:


> So they didnt tell you what replacement you are getting? I thought at the time it is determined a warranty they let you know whats in they are sending you to replace it, essentially whats in stock. On both warranties, I did they told me after inspecting the bike it was a warranty issue and they would be sending me a Supersix. Your LBS should know what they are receiving for your Super. Should be the same frame or better.


We did discuss IF my frame was replaced that I would get the same 2010 frame or equivalent 2011 frame. My LBS said they won't know anything until Cannondale gets back to them. I don't know if this is normal or not but it is pretty frustrating not knowing where this is going to go. Is there anything more I can do to speed the process along?


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## Devastator (May 11, 2009)

metoou2 said:


> The OP stated the cracked frame was a Super Six 2. The Super 2 was a standard mod so I would expect that it will be replaced with same.
> Owners in this situation always have the option to pay more and get the warranty upgrade. Of course its difficult to justify paying more for what is essentially the same frame.


Strongly disagree, The warranty policy is you get equal or better. I went from 08 System to 09 Super to 10HM Super. There was plenty of people who got Sixs for their System and people who got std mod Super for their 09 Super.


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## Devastator (May 11, 2009)

MondoRock said:


> We did discuss IF my frame was replaced that I would get the same 2010 frame or equivalent 2011 frame. My LBS said they won't know anything until Cannondale gets back to them. I don't know if this is normal or not but it is pretty frustrating not knowing where this is going to go. Is there anything more I can do to speed the process along?


I dont think there is anything you can do then. So the LBS didnt have the area rep from Cdale look at the bike it had to be sent to Cdale to have them analyze it there? If so then its a much different process than what was done for me. From what I understand, they sometimes can determine if its a warranty issue at the LBS if its not clear then they have to wait for the Cdale area rep to look at it and then once its determined as an issue the rep maybe looks at what in inventory and will decide what is sent. And it is my understand you will get equal or better, based on whats in stock, color wise theyll match try to match it.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

In warranty situations with Cannondale it has been my experience that the key factors are the shop owner / manager and the area sales rep. If they are good at what they do and care about taking care of customers they will be your advocate and push Cannondale. How you determine their level of competency and desire to help you is unique to your situation and the players involved. Only you can get a 'feel' for they way you are being treated.
You can't call Cannondale, they won't tell you a thing. Your bike was shipped to Bedford. An inside sales rep has your frame. That inside rep in tandem with an engineer will make a determination about the frame. There's no doubt they will give you a new frame. Bedford most likely has no 2010's left in stock. And forum rumor seems to lead to the conclusion that the 2011 standard mod frames are readily available.....(3) week lead time? 
And remember this; if they say that you need to wait for (3) months for a frame to come from China then demand they find a complete bike on a showroom floor somewhere. Have that bike stripped and shipped to your local bike shop at NO cost to you. The good sales reps do this all the time. And make sure they give you a new fork with paint that matches the new frame. They can't force you to keep your old 2010 fork. 
Hang in there and be glad this isn't the Hi-mod. You would likely see $2.50 / gallon gas before you got a Hi-mod.


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## MondoRock (Jul 28, 2009)

metoou2 said:


> There's no doubt they will give you a new frame.


I sure hope you're right because one of the options I've been given is paint repair, which I'm not really happy with.


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## MondoRock (Jul 28, 2009)

Thanks for the tips and feedback Devastator and metoou2. I have no idea who the local rep is or if they've seen my frame. Hopefully I'll get an answer by next week. My experience will go a long way in determining if I do business with Cannondale in the future.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Devastator said:


> Strongly disagree, The warranty policy is you get equal or better. I went from 08 System to 09 Super to 10HM Super. There was plenty of people who got Sixs for their System and people who got std mod Super for their 09 Super.


Hey man, I respect your opinion..........not able to follow your explanation. 

At every decision point along your journey Cannondale gave you BETTER and NOT EQUAL........that's your point right? So the OP can "expect" BETTER? 
He could reference the president set by your case and "demand" BETTER? 
Is that your point? 

When the SYSTEMS failed for most, the frame was obsolete. Cannondale had to decide; EQUAL or BETTER. Being obsolete it opened up a can of worms having to decide what exactly is EQUAL and what is BETTER.
When the 09 Super Six failed for most, it was again obsolete. The '09 Super Six was offered as a hi mod only as we all know. Oh but wait a second....the 2010 Super Six comes in (2) varieties. Hi mod and standard mod. So again Cannondale had to decide. What is EQUAL to the '09 Super Six? What is BETTER than the '09 Super Six? 

To use your own words; *"There was plenty of people who got Sixs for their System and people who got std mod Super for their 09 Super." *
Yes I completely agree with your statement. The vast majority of people got this treatment and they got screwed.
So you were the exception to all those other customers and you got BETTER and so that means the OP will get BETTER? 

It is my opinion that you lucked out (got BETTER) on the SYSTEM warranty and you got EQUAL product when you went from the '09 Super Six to the 2010 Super Six hi-mod. An '09 Super Six hi mod = the 2010 Super Six hi mod, right? 

Back to the OP.............his 2010 standard mod cracked. There is no decision to be made by Cannondale about what is EQUAL or BETTER to an obsolete frame because the OP's frame is NOT obsolete. Cannondale said it plainly, "we will carry over the 2010 Super Six hi mods and standard mods to 2011 with only changes being made to the paint.
For the OP's cracked 2010 standard mod; 
EQUAL = 2010 / '11 standard mod 
BETTER = 2010 / '11 hi mod

So I can walk in, buy a 2011 Super Six standard mod Shimano 105 for $1900.00. It fails and expect, no; demand that they give me the 2011 Super Six hi mod frame? 
*really?*
The 2011 Super Six hi mod frame alone sells for $3,200.00 

Dev, sounds like you deal with a large volume shop who has a really good area sales rep who had your back when Cannondale was trying to decide what was EQUAL or BETTER to your obsolete frames. 
If you know of a magic bullet that will help the OP convert his 2010 standard mod into a 2010 / '11 hi mod then fire away. He will be the happiest and luckiest Cannondale owner I have ever known of.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

*2011 CANNONDALE bicycle owner's manual*

pg 82 Part II (section F, Cannondale Limited Warranty)

an excerpt from paragraph 15

During the duration of this limited warranty, CYCLING SPORTS GROUP, INC., will either repair any defective frame or component, or, at our option, replace any defective frame or component with the same or most nearly comparable model or component then available. THIS IS THE EXCLUSIVE REMEDY UNDER THIS WARRANTY. 

*.........same or most nearly comparable.............*


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## MondoRock (Jul 28, 2009)

Cannondale has offered to replace my frame with a 2011 model but not the fork. I would have to pay $200 for a matching fork. The frame is available mid-May but the fork would not be available until mid-July. What do you all think? I’m not happy that I’m being asked to pay for a matching fork. Has this happened to anyone in the past? Would appreciate any feedback you have.

The initial offer was they had 2 frames available for me to choose, 2010 in yellow/white/black or 2011 in red/white/black. I was happy to know that they would offer a frame in my same color scheme as my 2010 (red/white/black) but then said they have no forks available and that I would have to keep my black fork. As you can see from the pictures a black fork is not sold with either frame. They are asking me to accept a mix match frame/fork for a bike 8 months old. I don’t feel this is acceptable and have let the bike shop know my feelings. The shop then called Cannondable back and that's when they agreed to produce a fork but I would have to pay for it. 

My bike shop told me all 2011’s are gone (including Hi-Mod) and that these are the only 2 frames left and they don’t have the matching forks. They said 2012’s would be available this fall sometime, possibly as late as Dec-Feb ’12.

View attachment 229733


View attachment 229735


View attachment 229736


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## mtbbmet (Apr 2, 2005)

I think a black fork would look perfectly fine with that. Save the $200, and the wait.


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## Devastator (May 11, 2009)

metoou2 said:


> Hey man, I respect your opinion..........not able to follow your explanation.
> 
> At every decision point along your journey Cannondale gave you BETTER and NOT EQUAL........that's your point right? So the OP can "expect" BETTER?
> He could reference the president set by your case and "demand" BETTER?
> ...


The Std mod 10 is equivalent to a 09 Hm. 10 Hm blows the 09 Hm outa the water, I was dissatisfied with my 09 Super, but happy it was not a 09 six. I dont have any secret, I was just lucky in my cases that I got what I got I guess. And it sounds like he is in in a tight spot here. Regardless of what the warranty says, Im just saying the LBS and Cdale rep told me theyd try and replace my bike with the equivalent or better.


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## AvantDale (Dec 26, 2008)

I think it would highly depend on the C'dale rep and their relationship with the shop. A friend of mine got a 10 HM for his 08 System Six.

The idea is to make you "whole" again. If you got a 06 Six13 (which was their top of the line at the time) it would make sense that if your Six13 broke today, you would get a SS6 HM (todays top of the line). That would make you whole again. 

If the *equal* frame to make you whole again is not available...then they move you to the next available "higher" model.

Specialized did the same thing for a different friend of mine. He had a bottom of the line Roubaix from 07. The paint chipped on the rear drop out. Spesh sent him an 08 Expert frame and fork.


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## MondoRock (Jul 28, 2009)

AvantDale said:


> I think it would highly depend on the C'dale rep and their relationship with the shop. A friend of mine got a 10 HM for his 08 System Six.
> 
> The idea is to make you "whole" again. If you got a 06 Six13 (which was their top of the line at the time) it would make sense that if your Six13 broke today, you would get a SS6 HM (todays top of the line). That would make you whole again.
> 
> ...


Cannondale's stance, which I don't agree with, is my 2010 black fork is fine and will work with any of the frames they've offered me. I feel forced in to spending another $200 to get me whole. I never would have bought my bike if it didn't have a matching fork so why should it be okay now?


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## ronderman (May 17, 2010)

C'Dale always does that on the fork and really why shouldn't they. With that said, keep you fork - shows you are a warrior - you ride your frames and they break. Happened to me and my '08 Super Six and I had the fork thing too. I just kept it. BTW, the replacement frame can take awhile too - I waited like 3 months.

Dang, though, those are some ugle C'dale colors - what's wrong with all black or all red?


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## Briko (Jun 17, 2009)

use your same fork!!! I was in the same boat. I had a black fork and got the 11 red/white/black. the fork matches up and looks great. I think it looks better than the red fork. But its your call. if you have $$$ to burn then buy another fork...


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## MondoRock (Jul 28, 2009)

Briko said:


> use your same fork!!! I was in the same boat. I had a black fork and got the 11 red/white/black. the fork matches up and looks great. I think it looks better than the red fork. But its your call. if you have $$$ to burn then buy another fork...


Thanks. Can you post some pictures of your bike?


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Mondo I have seen cases like yours go both ways. Sometimes you can get a fork and sometimes not. Remember if your 2010 fork has a fairly long steer tube you can get approx $100.00 on flea-bay. The longer steer tube means it will work for more frame sizes that potential bidders might have. 
In my case, my black S Six frame cracked (fork was fine). I ended up with a new 2011 S Six Hi-mod frame and fork in white at no charge. I had to surrender both my fork and frame in the swap. 
Don't be hatin on Cannondale, all of the companies do similar things. And remember Cannondale is one of the few that actually offers 'lifetime' warranties. Many companies selling very expensive bikes offer (2) to (5) years only. You have to consider that when buying new.
Also understand what lifetime means for any bike company offering this warranty. It is said to be covered for the life of the bike against materials and manufacture's defects. However, if the company determines the bike has surpassed its 'usable life' then there are some caveats. You can ride a Cannondale for (15) years and rack up 75k miles. It cracks. Cannondale will say that you have surpassed the usable life of the bike and they aren't going to hand over a new frame at NO cost to you. They will however provide you with a new frame at a DEEP discount. I know from personal experience with an alloy Cannondale that was from 1995. I provided the sales rcpt and I was treated more than fairly in the exchange. 
Cannondale has been rock solid for many years.


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## metoou2 (Mar 18, 2009)

Mondo, I forgot to ask. Did they determine that the top tube had an actual crack in the carbon? You had commented that at one point Cannondale might make a paint repair if it was only a paint crack.


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## MondoRock (Jul 28, 2009)

Thanks for your responses Metoou2. I will get my old fork back and the steer tube is uncut so I should be able to get something for it on eBay.

I’ve decided to go with the 2011 frame/fork (red/white/black) and the bike shop should receive it mid-July. I will pay the shop $200 for the fork plus the fee to rebuild the bike.

I’ve been wondering if I would have received the same treatment with another bike company, such as Specialized. I want to know that the company has my best interests in mind when there is an issue. I’ve had to push to get the offer I have and I almost feel like I’m the bad guy. The crack occurred, through no fault of my own, and I am the one being asked to compromise or pay more money to get it back to the way it was. Yes, I do value the way my bike looks. That is the way it was sold to me, as a coordinated frame and fork so why should it be any different now? Again, I feel like I’m the only one who sees it this way. Bottom line, a manufacturer should get the customer back where they started if there is a defect covered under warranty, especially for such a recent purchase as mine.

I also think Cannondale could do better by offering more color choices when there is a warranty issue (only one color was made available to me with frame/fork) and to shorten the wait time for warranty replacements. Luckily the replacement frame color is acceptable to me. I will say that I am happy that the frame is being replaced and that they are making matching fork available to me.

I do appreciate yours and everyone else’s comments about Cannondale and do want to believe in them. This forum was a huge reason for me purchasing a Cannondale and it was based on all the positive comments I read. I’ve been thinking about purchasing another bike to get me through this period or to have just as a back-up, such as a CAAD 10, but I’ve been hesitant about buying another Cannondale based on this experience. Your comments, along with the others who have responded, do help restore some of the faith I’ve lost through this process.

My understanding on the assessment of my old frame is that it’s a paint crack, not a frame crack. Cannondale would’ve had to get new decals, etc. and this would have been more trouble for them than to just replace the frame.


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## Greenduck (Apr 19, 2011)

I don't think you should write off Cannondale yet. Yes, they should always take the best interest in the customer but you should remember that they're a company and they're put in this World to make money. Money saved, money earned. But I do agree with you. You bought a complete package with color matching frame and fork and this being a warranty issue you should not get anything less. I even think the assembling fee should be paid by Cannondale too. 

Other companies might have dealt with this differently but I wouldn't put too many thought into that. 

I hope everything works out for you and that you still feel happy about your SuperSix and Cannondale. Also I say buy the CAAD10. The waiting period for your SS will be a great excuse to get another bike


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## Genshammer (Mar 24, 2011)

*Paint cracks*

Sorry you had to go through all of this and miss out on riding your bike! A lot of times when we see paint cracks on customer bikes, they occur near lug joints. Your paint crack was most likely along the head tube/top tube lug joint. When a bike is ridden, often times at a lug joint there will be minor flexure, and because paint is not flexible, over time, cracks in the paint/clearcoat can occur. Most likely your frame was fine, but if Cannondale is willing to replace it, then go for it! 

If you have any issues in the future, don't hesitate to contact us. We're a full-service carbon frame repair facility in North County San Diego with over 20 years of composites repair experience.

Sincerely,


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## SicBith (Jan 21, 2008)

MondoRock said:


> Thanks for your responses Metoou2. I will get my old fork back and the steer tube is uncut so I should be able to get something for it on eBay.
> 
> I’ve decided to go with the 2011 frame/fork (red/white/black) and the bike shop should receive it mid-July. I will pay the shop $200 for the fork plus the fee to rebuild the bike.
> 
> ...


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## early one (Jul 20, 2010)

Genshammer said:


> ....
> If you have any issues in the future, don't hesitate to contact us. We're a full-service carbon frame repair facility in North County San Diego with over 20 years of composites repair experience.,


You have an very informative web site.


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## lamazion (Sep 11, 2004)

Trek frame broken - replacement was one model up with matching fork.
Specialized frame repaired - looks like new

I also own a Cannondale. I love the bike. I did have an issue with a crack. Sent pictures to Cannondale and heard nothing back. My lbs took a look and determined it was just a paint crack. I expected to at least get a response from Cannondale. Would I buy a Cannondale again, yes. But I wouldn't expect too much from them on warranty issues.


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## taurine1 (Aug 28, 2011)

I'm on the opposite end. I've sent Cdale customer service dept. emails w/ pics concerning possible cracks, and they sent a response the next day. I even contacted a sales rep, and he responded immediately/was very informative w/ what steps to take. Personally, I'm not happy w/ the quality of Chinese made Cdale bikes compared to my US made ones, but their warranty and customer service are still top notch, in my opinion. I have so-so experience w/ Trek.


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