# Best tubes...



## 2ndGen

What are the best brands of tubes to consider 
(high puncture resistance, low air leakage, etc...)?


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## CleavesF

for the best puncture resistance, low air leakage there is only one brand. 

*SLIME!* have fun with your rolling resistance!


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## Kerry Irons

*Michelin*



2ndGen said:


> What are the best brands of tubes to consider
> (high puncture resistance, low air leakage, etc...)?


Aside from really cheap no-name tubes (which some people like anyway) the deciding factor for me is a smooth valve stem so you don't tear up your pump head. The 70 gm Michelin A1 works great for me. They lose less than 2 psi per day, IME.

Tube puncture resistance is not an issue unless you are using "thorn proof" tubes. The tire tread and casin are SO much thicker than the tube that once the puncture cause has penetrated the tire, it's only a matter of time before it does the same to virtually any tube.


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## 2ndGen

Kerry Irons said:


> Aside from really cheap no-name tubes (which some people like anyway) the deciding factor for me is a smooth valve stem so you don't tear up your pump head. The 70 gm Michelin A1 works great for me. They lose less than 2 psi per day, IME.


That's the thing for me...the cost between a good tube and a cheap tube is merely a few bucks. The headaches the cheap tubes give for me are not worth saving a couple of buck (if they give me far more down time and aggravation). 

I personally prefer brand names (especially when the difference is so minor). 

And, I've just started familiarizing myself with Presta valves. Their darn sensitive. I had an issue with one (a cheap one) bending way to easily when I was pumping it full of air. 

I noticed today as a matter of fact that the quality tube I placed on my rear tire, I didn't have to up the PSI that much (the bike was sitting for a week). 

The front one needed a good amount (stock tube, but it at least held air far better than the rear replacement tube that I got rid of).

Also, the valves on the new tube was great to work with and it felt far sturdier. So, I'm setting out to buy a bulk pack...just want to know what actual riders think are the best tubes out there so that I can purchase with confidence. 

Thanks for the info. Appreciate it. 

:thumbsup:

(As for tires, I'm strongly considering Continental Grand Prix 4000Ss...they look like they could take a beating on the streets and still be quick)


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## tarwheel2

I also use Michelins for the same reason as Kerry. Threaded valves will destroy your pump, which is more expensive to replace than a tube. Personally, I don't know why manufacturers even make tubes with threaded valves. They serve no necessary function.

Does anyone know any other brands of tubes with threadless valves besides Michelin?


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## Broomwagon

The Novara brand that REI (http://www.rei.com/product/704596) carries, are threadless. I don't know how they compare to the Michelin A1 tubes, but at least they are threadless.


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## AJL

My closest LBS used to carry Michelin, I really liked their Airstop tubes. Now they carry Specialized which s*cked until I switched to long stem tubes which are much, much better (and a couple bucks more expensive, but worth it). They are threaded though.


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## 2ndGen

So threadless seems like the way to go? 

What is the purpose of having a threaded valve anyway?


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## cdhbrad

I have a Lezyne pump where the presta head threads onto the tube stem, so the threads work fine for me, but they will chew up the head on pumps like the Silca and others. Also, if you need valve extenders for deep section rims, Vittorias are some of the best around, but they require a tube with a removable valve and Continentals are about the only ones I know of that have that type of valve.


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## Jesse D Smith

*Schwalbe*



2ndGen said:


> What are the best brands of tubes to consider
> (high puncture resistance, low air leakage, etc...)?


Schwalbe puts more thought and quality control into their tubes. Here's what their website has to say. 
"A bicycle tube is predominantly made of Butyl rubber. Butyl is a very elastic and airtight synthetic rubber, but as with the tire, other fillers are necessary to make up the rubber compound. The quality of a tube can vary significantly depending on the rubber compound. For instance SCHWALBE tubes have very good air retention and are very elastic. This high elasticity allows a wide range of different tire sizes to be covered. There is a difference between heat molded and autoclave tubes. Vulcanizing in a mould improves the uniformity of wall thickness, thus reducing weight and improving air retention. This is why the inferior yet more easily produced autoclave tubes have become increasingly less popular in recent years. SCHWALBE tubes have always been made using the heat molded process. Every tube also needs a valve, which is bonded to the tube during the vulcanizing process."

"Airtightness. Apart from the quality of the ingredients, the purity of the rubber mixture is crucial to the quality of the tube. The base material is therefore sieved at enormous pressure through seven filters before being extruded. All tubes are inserted into a mould and inflated for vulcanization to ensure constant wall thickness and high air pressure retention. Reliability. All tubes are inflated and stored for 24 hours in order to test for air pressure retention. Afterwards each, individual tube undergoes a careful visual inspection. This special quality control helps prevent unpleasant surprises and is why, over many years, Schwalbe tubes have become highly respected for outstanding reliability by bicycle dealers.

Group tube system. Only high elasticity and good quality allows a tube to cover very many tire sizes. Tube No. 17 can fit tire widths between 28 mm and 47 mm and that is a big advantage to the trade and simultaneously it vouches for the tube’s quality. Only an extremely high-quality and reliable tube is up to to this requirement.

Valve. All valves are nickel plated and threaded and valve inserts are replaceable. Also Schwalbe tubes with the classic bicycle valve are capable of pressure testing thanks to a high pressure valve seal. And it is plain to see as each tube is crowned with a transparent polycarbonate dust cap."


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## zac

tarwheel2 said:


> I also use Michelins for the same reason as Kerry. Threaded valves will destroy your pump, which is more expensive to replace than a tube. Personally, I don't know why manufacturers even make tubes with threaded valves. They serve no necessary function.
> 
> *Does anyone know any other brands of tubes with threadless valves besides Michelin?*


Vittoria ultralights I believe are also smooth valved.

Ditto on the Miche AirComps.

If you have threaded valves, a wrap of the threads with electrical tape works. It's not an elegant solution, but it does last a couple of weeks. I suppose you could get some of that electrical wire heat shrink splicing stuff and that would work too if not too thick.

zac


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## cdhbrad

Thanks for the info on Schwalbe tubes. Didn't know the valves on those were replacable as well. I'll keep that in mind if I can find the Conti tubes.


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## zac

2ndGen said:


> That's the thing for me...the cost between a good tube and a cheap tube is merely a few bucks. The headaches the cheap tubes give for me are not worth saving a couple of buck (if they give me far more down time and aggravation).
> 
> I personally prefer brand names (especially when the difference is so minor).
> 
> And, I've just started familiarizing myself with Presta valves. Their darn sensitive. I had an issue with one (a cheap one) bending way to easily when I was pumping it full of air.
> 
> I noticed today as a matter of fact that the quality tube I placed on my rear tire, I didn't have to up the PSI that much (the bike was sitting for a week).
> 
> The front one needed a good amount (stock tube, but it at least held air far better than the rear replacement tube that I got rid of).
> 
> Also, the valves on the new tube was great to work with and it felt far sturdier. So, I'm setting out to buy a bulk pack...just want to know what actual riders think are the best tubes out there so that I can purchase with confidence.
> 
> Thanks for the info. Appreciate it.
> 
> :thumbsup:
> 
> *(As for tires, I'm strongly considering Continental Grand Prix 4000Ss...they look like they could take a beating on the streets and still be quick)*


The Conti GP4000s is a pretty good tire. Of the "race" clincher tires that I ride regularly, it is the one that I get the most milage on, and significantly so, and seems to hold up better to tread and sidewall penetrations too. But that is just me, YMMV.

zac


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## jpdigital

+1 for the Michelins for the above stated reason (non-threaded valve stem). Also, the only other tube I know of that is non-threaded is Vittoria.


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## 2ndGen

Jesse D Smith said:


> Schwalbe puts more thought and quality control into their tubes. Here's what their website has to say.
> "A bicycle tube is predominantly made of Butyl rubber. Butyl is a very elastic and airtight synthetic rubber, but as with the tire, other fillers are necessary to make up the rubber compound. The quality of a tube can vary significantly depending on the rubber compound. For instance SCHWALBE tubes have very good air retention and are very elastic. This high elasticity allows a wide range of different tire sizes to be covered. There is a difference between heat molded and autoclave tubes. Vulcanizing in a mould improves the uniformity of wall thickness, thus reducing weight and improving air retention. This is why the inferior yet more easily produced autoclave tubes have become increasingly less popular in recent years. SCHWALBE tubes have always been made using the heat molded process. Every tube also needs a valve, which is bonded to the tube during the vulcanizing process."
> 
> "Airtightness. Apart from the quality of the ingredients, the purity of the rubber mixture is crucial to the quality of the tube. The base material is therefore sieved at enormous pressure through seven filters before being extruded. All tubes are inserted into a mould and inflated for vulcanization to ensure constant wall thickness and high air pressure retention. Reliability. All tubes are inflated and stored for 24 hours in order to test for air pressure retention. Afterwards each, individual tube undergoes a careful visual inspection. This special quality control helps prevent unpleasant surprises and is why, over many years, Schwalbe tubes have become highly respected for outstanding reliability by bicycle dealers.
> 
> Group tube system. Only high elasticity and good quality allows a tube to cover very many tire sizes. Tube No. 17 can fit tire widths between 28 mm and 47 mm and that is a big advantage to the trade and simultaneously it vouches for the tube’s quality. Only an extremely high-quality and reliable tube is up to to this requirement.
> 
> Valve. All valves are nickel plated and threaded and valve inserts are replaceable. Also Schwalbe tubes with the classic bicycle valve are capable of pressure testing thanks to a high pressure valve seal. And it is plain to see as each tube is crowned with a transparent polycarbonate dust cap."



Lot's of great info here.

Thanks Jesse! 
:thumbsup:


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## 2ndGen

zac said:


> The Conti GP4000s is a pretty good tire. Of the "race" clincher tires that I ride regularly, it is the one that I get the most milage on, and significantly so, and seems to hold up better to tread and sidewall penetrations too. But that is just me, YMMV.
> 
> zac


They certainly look "beefier" than most tires without being CX tires. 
They look safe to me and look like they get great traction and could take a little abuse. 
I'd give up some ultimate racing tire performance for a tire that keeps me on the road longer.


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## rruff

zac said:


> The Conti GP4000s is a pretty good tire. Of the "race" clincher tires that I ride regularly, it is the one that I get the most milage on, and significantly so, and seems to hold up better to tread and sidewall penetrations too. But that is just me, YMMV.


I agree... been riding them for over a year, and they last longer than any tire I've used... that includes Michelin Krylions. They also have low rolling resistance per independent tests. Don't seem to ride quite as smooth as Pro3s, but are much more durable and long lasting. One bad point is that threads tend to come loose at the bead. 

Unfortunately I didn't buy more of them when PBK was selling them for $26 last year.


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## AJL

zac said:


> I suppose you could get some of that electrical wire heat shrink splicing stuff and that would work too if not too thick.


Great idea! Thx


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## danl1

cdhbrad said:


> I have a Lezyne pump where the presta head threads onto the tube stem, so the threads work fine for me, but they will chew up the head on pumps like the Silca and others. Also, if you need valve extenders for deep section rims, Vittorias are some of the best around, but they require a tube with a removable valve and Continentals are about the only ones I know of that have that type of valve.


I bet that if you look closely, that threads onto the cap threads rather than the body threads. No way they'd make them incompatible with Michelin tubes.

Plus, that's how my ancient straight CO2 adaptor works.


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## Nielly

*threaded valves*



2ndGen said:


> So threadless seems like the way to go?
> 
> What is the purpose of having a threaded valve anyway?



The only reason I can think of is that the manufacturer is trying to save the expense of having to stock two different types of valves for road and mtb


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## EverydayRide

2ndGen said:


> So threadless seems like the way to go?
> 
> What is the purpose of having a threaded valve anyway?


Have you tried to bury a pump head into a threadless stem? The stem is forced back into the rim as you push the pump head onto the stem itself. You have a locking ring that usually comes with a "threaded stem" which "locks" the stem from moving backward through the rim and into the tire chamber. The locking ring also allows the stem to sit or "seat" itself securely and square against the outer rim ridding rattling or vibration feed back [road, tire, rim,stem = rattle sound as stem clanks against rim].

I won't ride tubes unless I can use a locking ring on a threaded stem. I don't need the noise or rattle that a thread-less stem could imposes furrowed through a rim having play betwn stem and rim hole or having it bury itself inside the rim tire chamber as I try to force on the pump head and pump up the air with an air pump.:mad2: 

Threaded.


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## zac

EverydayRide said:


> Have you tried to bury a pump head into a threadless stem? The stem is forced back into the rim as you push the pump head onto the stem itself. You have a locking ring that usually comes with a "threaded stem" which "locks" the stem from moving backward through the rim and into the tire chamber. The locking ring also allows the stem to sit or "seat" itself securely and square against the outer rim ridding rattling or vibration feed back [road, tire, rim,stem = rattle sound as stem clanks against rim].
> 
> I won't ride tubes unless I can use a locking ring on a threaded stem. I don't need the noise or rattle that a thread-less stem could imposes furrowed through a rim having play betwn stem and rim hole or having it bury itself inside the rim tire chamber as I try to force on the pump head and pump up the air with an air pump.:mad2:
> 
> Threaded.


EverydayRide, couple of things to try as I have never had the issues you are citing.

As to valve push through, just push in with your thumb on the tire tread opposite the valve. This will easily keep the valve from pushing through the rim, and this is on every sort of rim and valve length that I have used. Perhaps you need to start using longer valves.

As to rattle, just wrap the valve stem with a wind, or two, of electrical tape before pushing through the valve hole in the rim. This will insulate any noise. I do this out of habit, but quite honestly a properly seated valve stem when inflated should not rattle against the rim hole, period.

HTH
zac


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## zac

2ndGen said:


> They certainly look "beefier" than most tires without being CX tires.
> *They look safe to me and look like they get great traction *and could take a little abuse.
> I'd give up some ultimate racing tire performance for a tire that keeps me on the road longer.


2ndGen, the tread is actually somewhat just a visual. For the same type of tire compound, a slick would actually get better traction, as it get more rubber on the road surface. Note that hydroplane issues associated with wider, flatter tires such as car tires do not apply narrow road bike tires. That being said, I have no complaints on the Conti GP4000s traction abilities. Perhaps not as sure footed as my Bontrager RXLs but then again I go through those like soft butter.


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## EverydayRide

zac said:


> EverydayRide, couple of things to try as I have never had the issues you are citing.
> 
> As to valve push through, just push in with your thumb on the tire tread opposite the valve.
> zac


When your tires are at 80 psi already it's impossible to "push" against an already firm tread. I will pump up the tires to 100 - 110 psi from 80 psi every couple days. With the non-threaded and non-secured ring retainer the smooth valve stem slips easily inside the rim itself while forcing on the pump head. Been there done it on the electrical tape. Too much drama for me.... I'll stick to threaded stems any day ...any day.

Cool.

Click for video

This tire is at 110 psi and look at the stem move easily back inside the tire.


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## PoorInRichfield

EverydayRide said:


> Have you tried to bury a pump head into a threadless stem? The stem is forced back into the rim as you push the pump head onto the stem itself....
> 
> I won't ride tubes unless I can use a locking ring on a threaded stem. I don't need the noise or rattle that a thread-less stem could imposes furrowed through a rim having play betwn stem and rim hole or having it bury itself inside the rim tire chamber as I try to force on the pump head and pump up the air with an air pump.:mad2:
> 
> Threaded.


^^^ This.

I like the idea of a threadless stem, but when you're in the middle of no where trying to fix a flat on the side of the road, having a threaded stem is way less frustrating. I carry a mini-pump with me and it's hard enough to use with a threaded stem, much less a threadless. In addition, some of the cheaper CO2 cartridge adapters screw onto a threaded stem... which is a darn good idea since CO2 cartridges blast out a ton of gas in a short time.


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## cxwrench

PoorInRichfield said:


> ^^^ This.
> 
> I like the idea of a threadless stem, but when you're in the middle of no where trying to fix a flat on the side of the road, having a threaded stem is way less frustrating. I carry a mini-pump with me and it's hard enough to use with a threaded stem, much less a threadless. In addition, some of the cheaper CO2 cartridge adapters screw onto a threaded stem... which is a darn good idea since CO2 cartridges blast out a ton of gas in a short time.


Damn near 10 years to the day. Congratulations, this might be a record.


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## No Time Toulouse

cxwrench said:


> Damn near 10 years to the day. Congratulations, this might be a record.


Since you are actively in the business, how many of these claims are still valid a decade later?


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## cxwrench

No Time Toulouse said:


> Since you are actively in the business, how many of these claims are still valid a decade later?


Which claims? Ability to hold pressure? Puncture resistance? Threaded or not? I rarely see anyone using what could be considered a 'high end' tube. 99% of the tubes I see being used are threaded, but I prefer threadless. I see pretty much everything with a hole in it at some point, don't think anything is more puncture resistant than anything else. Most tubes lose pressure at about the same rate, hard to say for sure though as I only use what we stock...Bontrager, and I run such low pressure in my 40mm tires that they stay inflated forever.


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## No Time Toulouse

cxwrench said:


> Which claims? Ability to hold pressure? Puncture resistance? Threaded or not? I rarely see anyone using what could be considered a 'high end' tube. 99% of the tubes I see being used are threaded, but I prefer threadless. I see pretty much everything with a hole in it at some point, don't think anything is more puncture resistant than anything else. Most tubes lose pressure at about the same rate, hard to say for sure though as I only use what we stock...Bontrager, and I run such low pressure in my 40mm tires that they stay inflated forever.


Oh, so you're at a Trek shop, then? FWIW, I remember when Slime tubes were probably the second-best way to avoid punctures, but there are so many better sealers today thanks mostly to the rising popularity of tubeless tires (you know, the ones where you put $10 of sealant in each tire, just to avoid having to buy an $8 inner tube....). 

Back then, I tried Slime once in a Conti Sprinter, and not only did it fail, but it made a gawd-awful green mess of my base tape. Tufo sealant used to be better, but from what I've seen today, I'd say that Orange Seal is the best. Your thoughts?


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