# Flanders



## rubbersoul (Mar 1, 2010)

Wow, Cancellara is flying!!


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Where are you watching?


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

http://sports-livez.com/channel/ch-5.php


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

jv tells tyler and thor to just ride and not work. "if its a srint for third, its a sprint for third."


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

burkhart has a rear flat.

when does fabian just ride chavanel off his wheel?

i dont think chavanel has taken the wind since spartacus joined him


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

top of the bosberg? maybe ride with him 1/2 way, separate, then take the turn and leave him behind.


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

weltyed said:


> jv tells tyler and thor to just ride and not work. "if its a srint for third, its a sprint for third."


That's sort of the Garmin team motto - "We sprint for third!!"


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

both leaders talk to their cars and fuel up a bit. cancellara seems to have slowed a bit...planning someting is my guess.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

lead down to :18, but because they are on the hill. 

i wonder if the slowing of fabian has allowed them to catch up...


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

weltyed said:


> burkhart has a rear flat.
> 
> when does fabian just ride chavanel off his wheel?
> 
> i dont think chavanel has taken the wind since spartacus joined him


Any second now on the Muur.

Or not, has Cancellera over done it?


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

They Might Get Caught!!!!!!!!!!
They Arevcaught!!!!!


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

fabian needs to distance right here. separate, hit the top and leave them behind


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

NO!!!!!!!
spartacus sits up and lets someone else take the lead!
will he sit back and recouperate, then bury them or has he had it?

where are JV;s "sprint for thirds" riders now?


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

nobody really working in this slight splinter off the front


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

JohnHemlock said:


> That's sort of the Garmin team motto - "We sprint for third!!"


and their complacency have cost them this time...


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Cancellera is cooked and Boonen is not great. Could be any of the riders near the front at this point.


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## culdeus (May 5, 2005)

I don't think the guy has another E3 in him. I'm thinking Gilbert has a shot here.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

fabian dipped his head and glanced at his front mech, a move i know too well.

gilbert has put his work in and is on the smooth pavement solo. but will the chase work together and pull cancefabian back?


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

6 on the front now, chasing gilbert. they can organize, and should be able to get him. i had ballan as my second choice, and he is in there!

they forced cancellara to bring them together, and now he rides 5th wheel here. they are working, but cancellars tries to miss a rotation and a gap is exposed for a few seconds. 

:06


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

CAUGHT!

race is awesome!


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Gilbert on paper should win it even if caught. I believe he's the best sprinter out of that group, unless Boonen is able to catch up.

Uh Oh, Boonen group coming back to them.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

more latch on. the front is a who's who of powerhouses this year.

they smartly stick cancellara out in the wind, basically telling him, "if you want this, you need to fight us all"


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

xpect attacks left and right.

this will be crazy.


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## culdeus (May 5, 2005)

Is that a George Hincape sighting?


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

cancellara owers out with 3k to go and takes two with him
but will it last?


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

the lead three work together.
fabian and chavanel shake hands. sportsmanship before the final stab?


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Yes It's him.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

awesome finish!!!!!!!


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## culdeus (May 5, 2005)

That was worth it. Thanks to the euro sport streamers.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Tough loss for Sparticus.


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## rubbersoul (Mar 1, 2010)

Eurosport live rocks! Amazing race!


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

two big wins for Nick


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

That was an awesome final 60 km. I watched the Sporza coverage thanks to steephill.tv. Although it's in Flemish they have NO COMMERCIALS and plenty of cut-aways to team car DS talking. Sometimes you can't understand anyway, but sometimes you can pick a few things up. Comments:

1. What was Tom Boonehead thinking attacking with 55 km to go with his teammate Chavanel a minute ahead up the road? All he did was pull the strongest rider in the world with him and then couldn't stay with Cancellara anyway.

2. Garmin, Garmin, Garmin. Haussler has been a classics bust this season. Hushovd seems like he has no team around him. JV telling his team not to do squat while the Cancellara break was away was smart, but when the peloton catches Chavanel and Cancellara in Grammont, there are no Garmin riders at the front anyway. They're all spent.

3. Did you guys notice with 1 km left Cancellara pulling up to Chavanel and shaking his hand to congratulate him for such a strong ride? Cancellara = pure class.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

That was an awesome final 60 km. I watched the Sporza coverage thanks to steephill.tv. Although it's in Flemish they have NO COMMERCIALS and plenty of cut-aways to team car DS talking. Sometimes you can't understand anyway, but sometimes you can pick a few things up. Comments:

1. What was Tom Boonehead thinking attacking with 55 km to go with his teammate Chavanel a minute ahead up the road? All he did was pull the strongest rider in the world with him and then couldn't stay with Cancellara anyway.

2. Garmin, Garmin, Garmin. Haussler has been a classics bust this season. Hushovd seems like he has no team around him. JV telling his team not to do squat while the Cancellara break was away was smart, but when the peloton catches Chavanel and Cancellara in Grammont, there are no Garmin riders at the front anyway. They're all spent.

3. Did you guys notice with 1 km left Cancellara pulling up to Chavanel and shaking his hand to congratulate him for such a strong ride? Cancellara = pure class.


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

Great win for Nuyens and his Saxo Bank team. 
Cancellara, awesome display of force. It finally shows he's human and can't just ride everyone off his wheel. 
Really interesting conversation, between the Leopard Trek team car and the Quick-Step car. "He's too strong, he's too strong" I assume he was refering to Fabian when the Leopard car was asking for Chavanel to share in the effort.

I just saw the last 90 km of the race, but it seems to me that the only Garmin rider showing up for work was Roger Hammond. 

Phillipe Gilbert, what can one say? Hope he wins one of the Ardennes, again.

Can't wait for Roubaix.


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## Uncle Jam's Army (Aug 1, 2006)

weltyed said:


> the lead three work together.
> fabian and chavanel shake hands. sportsmanship before the final stab?


Could be wrong, but I thought that Chavanel was slingshotting FC on that handshake.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

MG537 said:


> Phillipe Gilbert, what can one say? Hope he wins one of the Ardennes, again.


Gilbert, as in M-SR, gave a very big effort toward the end (and left nothing in the tank) thinking he was going to get away. That's his forte on uphill finishes but on relatively flat finishes like M-SR and Flanders a rider like him needs to stay with wheels and then pull a very late flyer. I think he could have won had he just sat on Fabian's wheel and taken off with a km to go. Everybody looked really gassed. _Chapeaux_ to Nuyens, he rode really smart in the last 10 kms.


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

Uncle Jam's Army said:


> Could be wrong, but I thought that Chavanel was slingshotting FC on that handshake.


It did look like that but if it was, it wasn't much of one.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Uncle Jam's Army said:


> Could be wrong, but I thought that Chavanel was slingshotting FC on that handshake.


That is what it looked like to me as well. Like he wanted him to go back and pull.....likely a mixture of both. 

Very common in Belgium. If you cannot close the gap then you are expected to sling someone up.....or they will grab your jersey and sling themselves. Can take a while to get used to.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

MG537 said:


> Great win for Nuyens and his Saxo Bank team.
> Cancellara, awesome display of force. It finally shows he's human and can't just ride everyone off his wheel.
> *Really interesting conversation, between the Leopard Trek team car and the Quick-Step car. "He's too strong, he's too strong" I assume he was refering to Fabian when the Leopard car was asking for Chavanel to share in the effort.
> *
> ...


That was classic, love the Belgium shrug by Peters..... It worked, Chavanel was stronger in the sprint because he was not in the front for all that time.


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## Swish (Jul 31, 2004)

Doctor Falsetti said:


> That was classic, love the Belgium shrug by Peters..... It worked, Chavanel was stronger in the sprint because he was not in the front for all that time.



Chavanel couldn't do much more than stay in Fabian's wheel, even if he had the power he'd certainly not be allowed to take turns. Cancellara didn't have the reserves today, perhaps had he attacked with 20 km to go. Some smart racing by Nuyens. Very exciting and interesting race, we're seeing more of that recently, good times!


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Uncle Jam's Army said:


> Could be wrong, but I thought that Chavanel was slingshotting FC on that handshake.


I thought that at first too, but I think Chavenal was just offering his hand to say "good job, thank you".


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Fabian burned too many matches*



Swish said:


> Chavanel couldn't do much more than stay in Fabian's wheel, even if he had the power he'd certainly not be allowed to take turns. Cancellara didn't have the reserves today, perhaps had he attacked with 20 km to go. Some smart racing by Nuyens. Very exciting and interesting race, we're seeing more of that recently, good times!


early, he should have kept Boonen with him to work together at about the 40K mark (Valkenberg?)
quite common when one is in that position
kudos for not cowering from it


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Boonen launched that attack*

because Boonen doesn't race for second and Chavanel was not going to solo for 40K
When Boonen went I don't think he anticipated getting dropped
Pozzato, classic wheel suck and still gets dropped
I can hear it now "If only I could have held their wheels I'd have had a shot"


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Fabian might as well have been*

riding solo, Chavanel was doing nothing for him

Flecha with another 1/2 effort of a chase down when he pulls over trying to force someone to the front is when FC countered


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

Boonen made a helluva kick to try to bridge up for the sprint, no one in the chase could hold his wheel and he waited so as not to screw Chavenel who might have had that had FC not pinched him a bit


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

What a brilliant race. The last 40k was a real dog fight with Riis' boy coming out on top - Nice!. 
Meanwhile back in Toytown: The Girls from Garmin were told by Vaughters to contribute nothing to close down Chavanel and Cancellara and to race for 3rd. What a plonker!!! Farrar won the meaningless sprint of the also rans.


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## S.ODon (Jul 23, 2010)

robdamanii said:


> Tough loss for Sparticus.


Agreed, it was rough to see him miss 1st when he was BY FAR the strongest rider.


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

albert owen said:


> What a brilliant race. The last 40k was a real dog fight with Riis' boy coming out on top - Nice!.
> Meanwhile back in Toytown: The Girls from Garmin were told by Vaughters to contribute nothing to close down Chavanel and Cancellara and to race for 3rd. What a plonker!!! Farrar won the meaningless sprint of the also rans.


Garmin-Cervelo's website is pimping their 13th place finish. The headline is "Garmin-Cervelo Fights to the End!"


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Fantastic race.

But Thor: Never ever ever listen to JV again.


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

Good result by Hincapie.


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## harlond (May 30, 2005)

S.ODon said:


> Agreed, it was rough to see him miss 1st when he was BY FAR the strongest rider.


Not sure he was *far* stronger than Chavanel.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

It occurs to me that Vaughters is a tactical moron.


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

kbwh said:


> Fantastic race.
> 
> But Thor: Never ever ever listen to JV again.


Sitting in was the smartest move. Thor and Tyler clearly did not have the legs today. They popped off the back as soon as the action started. Thor especially, he lost over 4 minutes in 20 km. If they had pulled their exit out the back would have only come sooner. 

With the exception of BMC all of the other DS' had the same strategy.


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## harlond (May 30, 2005)

atpjunkie said:


> because Boonen doesn't race for second and Chavanel was not going to solo for 40K
> When Boonen went I don't think he anticipated getting dropped


Museeuw says Chavenal was the strongest in the race, and he sure looked strong, so I'm not sure he can't solo the 40K. And before Boonen attacked, Sean Kelly was saying we were getting close to the point where the favorites might have watched each other right out of the race. But even if Boonen thought Chavanel couldn't solo in, that's no reason to attack his own teammate. And if Boonen did not anticipate getting dropped by Fabian, well, then he hasn't been paying close enough attention the last couple years. Boonen very well may have had the thoughts you suggest, but still it seems to me like a huge error.

Chavanel, OTOH, rode a great race.


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## Wicked2006 (Jul 9, 2005)

This is a great race. My bad for saying this! EDITED!!


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

So good to see Saxo Bank winning, in despite of all the "stars" and "primadonas" leaving the ship.

I was rooting against Motorcus, I would have preferred Chavanel to win, but well a Saxo Bank victory will taste now like sweet revenge for Riis.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

Chavanel is the consummate tactician and teammate. He has the wherewithal to follow Cancellara's late break and deliberately makes Spartacus take long pulls but then pulls through just enough to keep the break moving. What a smart race, if only he'd gone left around Canc instead of right.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

robdamanii said:


> It occurs to me that Vaughters is a tactical moron.



Right he should have had his two sprinters that were clearly struggling go to the front and pull because tactically that would made tons of sense. For Thor or Tyler to do ANYTHING but what they did would have been stupid as it was they were clearly out gunned. Add to that BMC was strongly represented in the chase and letting them work (as JV suggested) was the smart think. 

Look sometimes all you can do is sit in hold on and pray it may not be the most exciting thing but if you win or place its the best move no gives a damn about the guy that took a pull 20k out and got popped because of it.


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## Fignon's Barber (Mar 2, 2004)

Probably one of the most entertaining rondes in years. loved it. chavenal road a great race tacticly and showed class by not complaining even though he was boxed in twice in the last 15 meters. That was a bike race!
On the flip side, garmin-cervelo rode like cowards. The team that was trumpeted as the classics powerhouse at season's start put on a gutless display today. Sporza coverage had video from the garmin team car ordering them to "stop racing!" with 27k to go. then the peloton comes back together and they get dropped en mass. I'm surprised farrar didn't throw his arms in the air when he snagged 13th place for the squad!


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## jhamlin38 (Oct 29, 2005)

Flanders is always my favorite race. This years edition was no exception. I'm suprised Boonen made a move with Sylvan Chavanel up the road. 
Cancellara is incredible. 
Ballan looks to be back.
Not happy 'bout Vaughter's "tactic" to just sit in w about 30k left. Is he hoping all the favorites are going to ruin themselves for PR next week? 
Not much from HTC
Good job George.
I hope BMC can show this well next weekend.


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## orange_julius (Jan 24, 2003)

Fignon's Barber said:


> Probably one of the most entertaining rondes in years. loved it. chavenal road a great race tacticly and showed class by not complaining even though he was boxed in twice in the last 15 meters. That was a bike race!
> On the flip side, garmin-cervelo rode like cowards. The team that was trumpeted as the classics powerhouse at season's start put on a gutless display today. Sporza coverage had video from the garmin team car ordering them to "stop racing!" with 27k to go. then the peloton comes back together and they get dropped en mass. I'm surprised farrar didn't throw his arms in the air when he snagged 13th place for the squad!


It was really an awesome race to watch!

The Muur did its job once again: it really ignited the race.

Chavanel rode an awesome race, he's the winner in my book. If only he had gone left instead of right, he would have taken it. When he won Brabantse Pijl and Dwars door Vlaanderen in 2008, I wept tears of a grown happy man. 

Boonen really overestimated his rivals. Perhaps the acceleration he made didn't make much difference anyway, but it sucks for Chavanel to have a teammate do that. 

JV was simply teaching his riders to be as big a winner as he was when he himself was a rider. True genius that. 

BMC did a great showing, and it was great to see Tommy Voeckler and his Europcar boys in the mix even. Someday a Frenchman may win this race yet, and that day may not be so far away.


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## culdeus (May 5, 2005)

Am I a total more0n to think that the E3 race was still somehow an issue? Do top pros do rides like that for breakfast lunch and dinner?


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

32and3cross said:


> Right he should have had his two sprinters that were clearly struggling go to the front and pull because tactically that would made tons of sense. For Thor or Tyler to do ANYTHING but what they did would have been stupid as it was they were clearly out gunned. Add to that BMC was strongly represented in the chase and letting them work (as JV suggested) was the smart think.
> 
> Look sometimes all you can do is sit in hold on and pray it may not be the most exciting thing but if you win or place its the best move no gives a damn about the guy that took a pull 20k out and got popped because of it.


I'm just glad JV got his all-important 13th place.

Like Hincapie said when Sherwen asked if he was surprised that no other teams were helping BMC. More or less, he said this is the Tour of Flanders and the point is not to hang out hoping for a Top 10.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

hindsight is 20/20.

if boonen would have been able to bridege, even taking cancellara with him, they would have have 2 guys up front.

garmin should have not worked. but they should have been near the front of the chase. 

this was one of those races where you realize why certain strategies work and others dont.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Salsa_Lover said:


> So good to see Saxo Bank winning, in despite of all the "stars" and "primadonas" leaving the ship.


Thought Saxo 2.0 and Spartacus had this one in the bag - nice to see the Mothership taking them to school!

Great race!


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

weltyed said:


> hindsight is 20/20.
> 
> if boonen would have been able to bridege, even taking cancellara with him, they would have have 2 guys up front.
> 
> ...


Cancellara was certainly the strongest rider. But he didn't play his cards right, even then he made a great late move that got him on podium and could have produced a win. Nice work, and he will be back next week.

Nuyens and Chavanel were wheel-suckers, but nonetheless it was a smart tactic that worked out for Nuyens (not so much for Chavanel).

I am beginning to root against Garmin-Cervelo. Sprint for third seems to be their motto lately. What's the point of being the "deepest" classics team ever assembled if they don't do anything in the race? BMC, Sky, QuickStep may not have gotten the win but at least they tried.

There is clearly a problem with Garmin-Cervelo, and I think it has something to do with JV management. :mad2: JV is really perfecting the euro-douche look, btw.


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## tinkerbeast (Jul 24, 2009)

Am I just imagining that boonen held on to canc's wheel when he put in his strongest dig on the leeberg? In fact it was a really canny move (not brute strength) by canc when he just about squeezed through the rabo and sky riders before the road narrowed leaving boonen stuck behind the slower riders. Of course once canc had that gap it was goodbye, but boonen wasn't as weak as people are making him out to be. 

Also I kinda get the feeling that the time difference broadcast was incorrect. Theres no way canc could hold off an entire team organized chase (even made the lead grow at some points) and then the minute lead plummeted to nothing in a little over a minute like he came to a stand still. I know he cramped but it certainly didnt look like he slowed down that much. If he actually did what he did, I'd be very afraid for PR... canc only lost because he cramped... easy enough to fix next time, but what will the peloton do? organize an 8 man chase? good luck doing that with vaughters behind the radio and after a surprise winner like nuyens teams are going to be a lot less coopertative (despite all the praise BMC is getting their tactics didnt work out for them in the end did it?)


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## The Moontrane (Nov 28, 2005)

What's up with Nuyens wood- blocked saddle?


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

they haven't yet found a way to fit the motor on the Trek


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

JohnHemlock said:


> I'm just glad JV got his all-important 13th place.
> 
> Like Hincapie said when Sherwen asked if he was surprised that no other teams were helping BMC. More or less, he said this is the Tour of Flanders and the point is not to hang out hoping for a Top 10.


Is there a point to chasing and getting dropped even further back?


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

55x11 said:


> Cancellara was certainly the strongest rider. But he didn't play his cards right, even then he made a great late move that got him on podium and could have produced a win. Nice work, and he will be back next week.
> 
> Nuyens and Chavanel were wheel-suckers, but nonetheless it was a smart tactic that worked out for Nuyens (not so much for Chavanel).


Im not even sure you can say Cancellara was the strongest I think that award goes to Chavanel who was off the front and then clearly had no trouble hanging with Cancellara when he caught up, add to that Chavanel was covering and chasing stuff after that, at most its a draw which of them was stronger Chavanel how ever had Boonen to think about which prevented him from riding til the very end had he ridden earlier I think we would have seen a two up sprint which I think Chavanel had a good chance of winning.

Calling Nuyens a wheel sucker shows a lacking understanding of how thing were happening, he rode when he needed too after the 3 were away at the end but no more than he needed to knowing that Chavanel was waiting for Boonen and that Cancellara had to ride.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*yeah*



tinkerbeast said:


> Am I just imagining that boonen held on to canc's wheel when he put in his strongest dig on the leeberg? In fact it was a really canny move (not brute strength) by canc when he just about squeezed through the rabo and sky riders before the road narrowed leaving boonen stuck behind the slower riders. Of course once canc had that gap it was goodbye, but boonen wasn't as weak as people are making him out to be.
> 
> Also I kinda get the feeling that the time difference broadcast was incorrect. Theres no way canc could hold off an entire team organized chase (even made the lead grow at some points) and then the minute lead plummeted to nothing in a little over a minute like he came to a stand still. I know he cramped but it certainly didnt look like he slowed down that much. If he actually did what he did, I'd be very afraid for PR... canc only lost because he cramped... easy enough to fix next time, but what will the peloton do? organize an 8 man chase? good luck doing that with vaughters behind the radio and after a surprise winner like nuyens teams are going to be a lot less coopertative (despite all the praise BMC is getting their tactics didnt work out for them in the end did it?)


Boonen got boxed and it was a cagey move by Fabian getting by those 2 guys


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*when FC caught Chavanel*



32and3cross said:


> Im not even sure you can say Cancellara was the strongest I think that award goes to Chavanel who was off the front and then clearly had no trouble hanging with Cancellara when he caught up, add to that Chavanel was covering and chasing stuff after that, at most its a draw which of them was stronger Chavanel how ever had Boonen to think about which prevented him from riding til the very end had he ridden earlier I think we would have seen a two up sprint which I think Chavanel had a good chance of winning.
> 
> Calling Nuyens a wheel sucker shows a lacking understanding of how thing were happening, he rode when he needed too after the 3 were away at the end but no more than he needed to knowing that Chavanel was waiting for Boonen and that Cancellara had to ride.


Chavanel had the tactic of being able to sit on because he had a guy behind. So he got to suck wheel because Boonen was behind. That gave him the reserves for the final move. So I think Boonen's presence helped Chav vs. hurt. Otherwise Chav would have been taking pulls in the kms after FC caught him and would have had less at the end. He may not have had the legs for the final move but he ran a tough, gritty race.

agreed Nuyens had helped in earlier chases and took his pulss in the final break. He did just as much as he needed to win, great race for him.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

I don't think that Fabian was "clearly the strongest" at all. Yes, he was very very strong and stood on the podium but I don't think that he appeared to be head and shoulders over everyone else at any point in this race. For my money, Chavanel looked the best of any individual rider in this race. 

Like some others here, I don't quite get Boonen's chase. I don't pretend to know everything that was going on but it looked sketchy to me. Chavanel was rocking this race and many people feel that it was only a couple of rider placement issues that kept him from winning the sprint at the end. Boonen's chase made that possible. 

BMC looked good. No, they didn't win the race but they came out looking way better than Garmin. George placed well and Ballan was very visible chasing hard and keeping the race from getting to separated. I'm looking forward to BMC doing well next Sunday.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

32and3cross said:


> Right he should have had his two sprinters that were clearly struggling go to the front and pull because tactically that would made tons of sense. For Thor or Tyler to do ANYTHING but what they did would have been stupid as it was they were clearly out gunned. Add to that BMC was strongly represented in the chase and letting them work (as JV suggested) was the smart think.
> 
> Look sometimes all you can do is sit in hold on and pray it may not be the most exciting thing but if you win or place its the best move no gives a damn about the guy that took a pull 20k out and got popped because of it.


I am not piling up on JV, there may be *some* logic to what he was saying, but it was an extremely passive tactic (let's wait for victory or 3rd place to come to us, let's not do any work for it), and it illustrates lack of strategy in having too many cooks - either make Thor and Haussler work for Tyler or have Thor and Tyler work for Haussler, but you cannot have everyone riding for themselves. Look at BMC - those domestiques buried themselves to give Ballan and Hincapie (both over the hill, nothing like Thor/Haussler/Farrar) a fighting chance to contend for a win. On paper JV has a very impressive classics team, but by not having a clear strategy he fails them again and again.

Versus commentators even asked him what he would do if he had three riders in the front group of 20, and he clearly had no answer, just that he would win the race if that happened. Well, he did have several of his best riders in the group containing eventual winner, Mr. Nobody-ever-heard-of-Me of Saxxo Bank, that powerhouse of classics riders, and JV blew it.


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## The Weasel (Jul 20, 2006)

JohnHemlock said:


> Garmin-Cervelo's website is pimping their 13th place finish. The headline is "Garmin-Cervelo Fights to the End!"


April Fools weekend! 
That's despictable considering the whole cycling community knows otherwise. 

Unless the end was at 30km to go?


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## soup67 (Feb 26, 2004)

Boonen's attack seemed like a bonehead move at the time, but it made Fabian go earlier than maybe he wanted. Fabian committed to the attack, bridged to Chavanel, and then Chavanel got a nearly free ride to the line. Fabian rode like a champion but cooked himself (and Boonen's group almost caught them). Real close to two QS guys on the podium.

Hats off the Chavanel-- he was awesome, but I think he owes Boonen a Duvel 'cause I don't think he would have made it to the line with the first group if he had been allowed to dangle out there for another 20k by himself.

Hindsight is a beautiful thing . . . .


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

If Quickstep's strategy really was for Boonen to tow Fabian up to Chavanel so that he could tow Chavanel to the line, then it was tactical brilliance. I'm not 100% convinced that this was what was going on but that's awesome if that was the intended outcome.


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## soup67 (Feb 26, 2004)

thechriswebb said:


> I'm not 100% convinced that this was what was going on


I'm not even 50% convinced . . . .


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

thechriswebb said:


> If Quickstep's strategy really was for Boonen to tow Fabian up to Chavanel so that he could tow Chavanel to the line, then it was tactical brilliance. I'm not 100% convinced that this was what was going on but that's awesome if that was the intended outcome.


I don't think there's the proverbial snowball's chance that that is what was going on.

Cancellera simply cracked him, heck I think he even tried to follow Boom on his attack before that and found the going too hard.

Nor was Boonen good on the Muur or Bosberg. Overall, an average day for him, if anything the 4th place flattered him.


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## bigmig19 (Jun 27, 2008)

Have not read whole thread yet, but OH MY GOD! That was the best race ive seen in at least 10 years (right?). Several things come to mind, 1) I thought FC had it sewed up at least 3 times, 2) I cant believe TB was back in the mix after appearing to flame early, and 3) George Hincapie at at almost 40 y/o finished 6 th with what he called AVERAGE legs! Really? average? cmon George.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

The Moontrane said:


> What's up with Nuyens wood- blocked saddle?


It's where he hid the engine!


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

55x11 said:


> I am not piling up on JV, there may be *some* logic to what he was saying, but it was an extremely passive tactic (let's wait for victory or 3rd place to come to us, let's not do any work for it), and it illustrates lack of strategy in having too many cooks - either make Thor and Haussler work for Tyler or have Thor and Tyler work for Haussler, but you cannot have everyone riding for themselves. Look at BMC - those domestiques buried themselves to give Ballan and Hincapie (both over the hill, nothing like Thor/Haussler/Farrar) a fighting chance to contend for a win. On paper JV has a very impressive classics team, but by not having a clear strategy he fails them again and again.
> 
> Versus commentators even asked him what he would do if he had three riders in the front group of 20, and he clearly had no answer, just that he would win the race if that happened. Well, he did have several of his best riders in the group containing eventual winner, Mr. Nobody-ever-heard-of-Me of Saxxo Bank, that powerhouse of classics riders, and JV blew it.


At the point that JV broadcast that Haussler was long since dropped (after having worked) Thor was barley hanging on (after having covered Boonens attack) and Tyler was hanging on doing what sprinters do sit in, the point was there was NO ONE to work. The fact they all got proved that while the stratgey sucked it was the right call working would have just meant they would have gotten dropped sooner the best option was to hope that some one would bring it back together. BTW BMC rode strongt but in my opion instead of just closing the whole thing down they should have started throwing their guys up the road when it was Clear Cancellara was fading instead they brough it back and had to react to others attacking.

BTW everyone who watches the classics has heard of Nick hes been 2nd before and won races he si just not a first string favorite. When I saw he was still present in the groups after the Muir I figured he had a solid chance, after he made the group of three it was almost a for gone conclusion to me he would win.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

32and3cross said:


> At the point that JV broadcast that Haussler was long since dropped (after having worked) Thor was barley hanging on (after having covered Boonens attack) and Tyler was hanging on doing what sprinters do sit in, the point was there was NO ONE to work. The fact they all got proved that while the stratgey sucked it was the right call working would have just meant they would have gotten dropped sooner the best option was to hope that some one would bring it back together. BTW BMC rode strongt but in my opion instead of just closing the whole thing down they should have started throwing their guys up the road when it was Clear Cancellara was fading instead they brough it back and had to react to others attacking.
> 
> BTW everyone who watches the classics has heard of Nick hes been 2nd before and won races he si just not a first string favorite. When I saw he was still present in the groups after the Muir I figured he had a solid chance, after he made the group of three it was almost a for gone conclusion to me he would win.


Sorry but Nuyens is an obscure no-name rider, even to cycling fans.
In fact, when interviewed after his win his first words were:
"Who am I? I never heard of myself!"  

I am sure you predicted Nuyens was one of the favorites, but he wasn't among top 10 favorites in my list, not even top 20! And that is the very definition of no-name. I will be the first to admit that despite following cycling very closely and watching every single classics race or Tour stage, either my memory of 2008 Flanders has faded, or he just didn't make much of an impression with his second place finish. And therefore I am not going to pretend I knew how to spell his last name or what he has won.

Bottom line comparison between BMC and Garmin:
BMC = excellent race. Garmin-Cervello = terrible race.

Yeah, yeah, Garmin folks had no legs for Flanders. They also had no legs for Gent-Wevelgem, no legs for Milan-San Remo and no legs for E3. What's much worse, they were never even a factor. Can you name another team with such huge disparity between expectations and performance?

I see a pattern here and it's not good. Excuses, excuses - that's all we hear.
They might as well sign Pozzato to make their roster complete.


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## soup67 (Feb 26, 2004)

Dwayne Barry said:


> I don't think there's the proverbial snowball's chance that that is what was going on.
> 
> Cancellera simply cracked him, heck I think he even tried to follow Boom on his attack before that and found the going too hard.
> 
> Nor was Boonen good on the Muur or Bosberg. Overall, an average day for him, if anything the 4th place flattered him.


I agree Boonen didn't have the goods and that C cracked him-- hell, Boonen barely got on C's wheel after he came around.

But Boonen used what he had and agitated the race at a key moment (in C's mind anyway), and from that point on Cancellara was in the wind, burning matches. Not saying Boonen had the legs to win, but it certainly improved Chavanel's chances. (Boonen owes his finish to the BMC guys killing it for Hincapie). 

Awesome race. Here's hoping Sunday is just as fun.


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

55x11 said:


> Bottom line comparison between BMC and Garmin:
> BMC = excellent race. Garmin-Cervello = terrible race.


BMC=raced Garmin-Cervelo=along for the ride


> Can you name another team with such huge disparity between expectations and performance?


Sky.
But Gerraint Thomas seems to have kicked it up a notch, he was flying.


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## ghost6 (Sep 4, 2009)

thechriswebb said:


> I don't think that Fabian was "clearly the strongest" at all. Yes, he was very very strong and stood on the podium but I don't think that he appeared to be head and shoulders over everyone else at any point in this race. For my money, Chavanel looked the best of any individual rider in this race.


Yea, I wonder what Chavanel did with all that energy he saved sitting behind Fabian for so long. Maybe he's saving it for next Sunday.


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## Jesse D Smith (Jun 11, 2005)

Salsa_Lover said:


> So good to see Saxo Bank winning, in despite of all the "stars" and "primadonas" leaving the ship.
> 
> I was rooting against Motorcus, I would have preferred Chavanel to win, but well a Saxo Bank victory will taste now like sweet revenge for Riis.


Geez, too bad that stoic Dane can't enjoy the win with a genuine show of emotion.


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## agm2 (Sep 18, 2008)

55x11 said:


> Sorry but Nuyens is an obscure no-name rider, even to cycling fans.
> In fact, when interviewed after his win his first words were:
> "Who am I? I never heard of myself!"
> 
> ...


What do you call his Dwars door Vlaanderan win two weeks ago? That was a race over many of the same climbs and pretty much the same people. Cancellera, Boonen, Chavenal, Haussler, Devolder. It was also quiet possibly the most impressive win I've seen from a single rider so far this year. So when I saw him, I figured he would be the dark horse and do well.

I have no idea what's happening with Garmin, I think they just haven't figured out how to utilize everyone to their fullest potential. I think it will come, and it will be much like SKY, it probably won't happen till next year. Realistically, they didn't have a strong team for the Ronde, and they had bad luck at San Remo, I'm sure it would have been a totally different race if it wasn't for that split. I'm going to wait and see before I make judgments.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

ghost6 said:


> Yea, I wonder what Chavanel did with all that energy he saved sitting behind Fabian for so long. Maybe he's saving it for next Sunday.


Don't forget that Chavanel rode off the front pack and was at the front for a long time before Cancellara caught him. Having said that, Cancellara was FAR stronger than anyone else. He did overestimate his abilities, but he was still amazingly strong. How many times have you seen someone in a long breakaway go basically solo for an hour against several teams, then get caught, dropped (even if for just a few hundred yards), only to claw his way back, then drop the large group? Cancellara is amazing, even though sometimes he is human.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> BMC=raced Garmin-Cervelo=along for the ride
> 
> Sky.
> But Gerraint Thomas seems to have kicked it up a notch, he was flying.


Flecha was a major factor too.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

agm2 said:


> What do you call his Dwars door Vlaanderan win two weeks ago? That was a race over many of the same climbs and pretty much the same people. Cancellera, Boonen, Chavenal, Haussler, Devolder. It was also quiet possibly the most impressive win I've seen from a single rider so far this year. So when I saw him, I figured he would be the dark horse and do well.
> 
> I have no idea what's happening with Garmin, I think they just haven't figured out how to utilize everyone to their fullest potential. I think it will come, and it will be much like SKY, it probably won't happen till next year. Realistically, they didn't have a strong team for the Ronde, and they had bad luck at San Remo, I'm sure it would have been a totally different race if it wasn't for that split. I'm going to wait and see before I make judgments.


Dwaars door Vlaanderen is a second-tier classic, a Wednesday warmup race. Doesn't register very highly on my radar. If you could have predicted that he would win Flanders, or even make your shortlist, I am sure we all would be very impressed. But he is really a no-name, as far as Cancellara, Hushovd, Boonen, Chavanel and others are concerned. I will be impressed if he wins another monument soon.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

55x11 said:


> Don't forget that Chavanel rode off the front pack and was at the front for a long time before Cancellara caught him. Having said that, Cancellara was FAR stronger than anyone else. He did overestimate his abilities, but he was still amazingly strong. How many times have you seen someone in a long breakaway go basically solo for an hour against several teams, then get caught, dropped (even if for just a few hundred yards), only to claw his way back, then drop the large group? Cancellara is amazing, even though sometimes he is human.



Please don't get me wrong. Cancellara raced an amazing race and once again put up an amazing display of strength. I don't think this compares to some of the other races we have seen him in though where he makes his decision to go and flies away without looking back to a high margin victory. Even if he were the strongest man in the race, if he were FAR stronger than everyone else, his attacks would have stuck and he would have ridden to the line by himself. I also think the peloton is onto him now and that it is going to be harder for him to get away than in the past. Cancellara rides with a lot of panache but he doesn't just ride away at will whenever he feels like it. He isn't opposed to attacking when another protagonist is talking to the car or attacking in a feed zone. He's definitely a favorite in everything he goes for but he isn't that far above everyone else. 

I also think that Cancellara has taken advantage of a passive peloton. Some of his big moments have come when he was willing to make something happen while everyone else was playing footsie and grab-a$$. There was a RACE on Sunday and Cancellara wasn't the only man that showed up to work that day. BMC, Quickstep, SKY, and Saxo Bank were racing and I'm so glad that Fabian didn't just ride away to another easy-looking solo victory. 

Garmin looked like a pile of flaming poo poo. This makes me sad; I'm a fan of several riders on their team. Cadel Evans made the rainbow jersey look awesome last year and I've been looking forward to seeing Thor do the same thing.  I don't get it. I have to blame at least some of that on bad tactics; it doesn't make sense to me that all of the talent on that team would simultaneously suck on the same day. I really want their team to win a green jersey this year and I wanted to see the rainbow jersey on the podium at one of the monuments. It's not going to happen this way. 

I don't think that the wheelsucker argument applies to Chavanel here. He rode solo for a long time before he held on to Cancellara. Fabian is good at riding by himself and giving him a rest so that he can regroup and launch himself on one of his TT's doesn't make any sense at all. Chavanel rode a hard, aggressive race and he always races aggressively. He's the best thing France has right now, a guy who wins GT stages, wears yellow jerseys, and contends on the cobbles. I've been a fan for a few years. 

BMC. They deserve the kudos they are getting right now. George has a lot of bad luck but has been in the top 10 in Flanders almost every year in the past decade. When the race was nearing the end and I saw his face all of a sudden I got excited. Nobody can say that George doesn't race. Ballan was awesome. He absolutely killed himself for George and though he didn't win, he was in the mix in the end and made BMC look very good. Ballan saved the race for a lot of people. When Gilbert attacked, I thought I was witnessing the winning move of the race and I think his competitors thought so too. Ballan tore himself apart chasing Gilbert and in the last kilometers of the race I think he was more responsible for keeping everyone together than anyone else. I can't wait for PR.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

55x11 said:


> Bottom line comparison between BMC and Garmin:
> BMC = excellent race. Garmin-Cervello = terrible race.
> 
> Yeah, yeah, Garmin folks had no legs for Flanders. They also had no legs for Gent-Wevelgem, no legs for Milan-San Remo and no legs for E3. What's much worse, they were never even a factor. Can you name another team with such huge disparity between expectations and performance?
> ...


Right they had no legs, you were ripping on them for their tactics, how are they supposed to enact tactics if they are barley hanging on because they have no legs? 

Cancellara wasn't "FAR stronger" than everyone else, his ride pretty much proved that. He was stronger than most but Chavenel was his match Sunday.

Sorry you don't know who Nick is but he is not a no name rider.


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