# Paris Carbon vs Leonardo FP?



## Aussie Carl (Jan 11, 2006)

Can anybody tell me how the Paris Carbon compares with the Opera Leonardo FP? 

Unfortunately I dont think I will be able to test ride either of them before I purchase to see if they suit me and the type of cycling I enjoy as they are both pretty rare around these parts. 

I am looking for an upgrade from my current alloy/carbon bike and really like the look of the Opera's (more so than the Pinarello's in some respects) but am a bit concerned that the range is going to be reabsorbed back into Pinarello and the name disappear all together. 

I am 6'3" weigh about 185lb's and looking for a good carbon road bike for ~100km rides that will be comfortable on the rough chip seal roads I often encounter around my way. I won't be using it for racing, although I do enjoy climbing the local hills. 

Based on the cr*p road surfaces I encounter and other peoples observations on this forum I don't think the Pinarello F4:13 is going to be a suitable steed for me. Hence my interest in the Leonardo and the Paris. 

Anybody got any ideas/thoughts?


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## Trevor! (Feb 28, 2004)

Hey Aussie Carl.

I was on the phone to the importers of Pinarello just yesterday. Not answer your question per se, but think you might be interested. The Paris Carbon will cost you around $6000 for the frame. That in the Illes Baliares (Spelling) team paint will cost just under $7000 at $6800 and take 8-10 weeks to deliver.

Last time I was in a shop selling Pina/Opera the Opera with dura ace build kit (from memory) without the onda fork but rather something similar (Still Pinarello) could be had for around the $6000 mark.

Both are gorgeous frames, but price may be a big influencing factor for you. I still err on the side of the Paris.


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## jnims29 (Sep 18, 2005)

I thought the Paris carbon was $3600 for the frame. do you mean the complete bike maybe, will cost $6000? Becasue i have e-mailed ben @ c-bike many times, and he told me the price of $3600 for the frame.


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## Trevor! (Feb 28, 2004)

jnims29 said:


> I thought the Paris carbon was $3600 for the frame. do you mean the complete bike maybe, will cost $6000? Becasue i have e-mailed ben @ c-bike many times, and he told me the price of $3600 for the frame.


$6000 Australian dollars - Sorry to scare you if you thought I was talking USD.


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## Ride_glendale (Sep 4, 2002)

*Paris cost.*

I got mine from cbike @ $3300.00. Check out my previous topic post "Newly built Paris Carbon" with photos.


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## jnims29 (Sep 18, 2005)

Ahhh... sorry. You scared the hell out of me.


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## Trevor! (Feb 28, 2004)

jnims29 said:


> Ahhh... sorry. You scared the hell out of me.


Well I can assure you, the $6K price tag in Australia is even scary for me. To add to this it costs $800 more (so I am told by the rep) to get the Illes Baliers paint spec.


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## Aussie Carl (Jan 11, 2006)

*But how do the frames compare?*

Thanks for your comments folks - at this end of the market I try not to think about the price at all (ouch!), that's why I was interested in peoples thoughts on the relative pro's and con's of the two frames, aside from cost, especially taking into consideration my size and weight and the sort of riding I do. 

Some frames are really designed for smaller/lighter riders and then just upscaled for tall b*ggers like me, which doesn't always translate into a comfortable or nimble bike (and frankly I look plain silly on a compact frame anyway;-) Are there any taller riders out there that can shed some light on the Pinarello's and Opera's?

PS Ed - your Paris Carbon does look great. How compliant is the ride on rough road surfaces?

Carl


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## Ride_glendale (Sep 4, 2002)

Trevor! said:


> Well I can assure you, the $6K price tag in Australia is even scary for me. To add to this it costs $800 more (so I am told by the rep) to get the Illes Baliers paint spec.


So its more for the Illes Baleres paint job? Thats really steep for the team paint! I called Competitive and they said they would get them around May / June. Im happy with my Red one.


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## Trevor! (Feb 28, 2004)

Ride_glendale said:


> Carl - in comparison to some other carbon bikes I've had / ridden - like the Ridely Damocles (stiffest carbon ive ridden), Colnago C40, and Orbea Orca - the Paris aint the stiffest (like the Ridley) and not as plush as the C40, but somewhere in between. I've ridden a Dogma FP and even though I'm not a heavy wattage kinda rider, the Dogma was stiff and agile. Would I feel a difference between the Dogma FP and a regular Dogma, probably not. I would say as a crit bike, the Paris wouldnt be my 1st choice. But as a road race (aka varied terrain) and 3 - 5 hour ride, I'd choose the Paris.
> 
> Dont get me wrong, the Paris is stiff .. but not at the league of the Ridley... I can see why Robbie M. likes to sprint on that puppy. But then again, Robbie can beat me on a Beach Cruiser! haha.
> 
> -Ed


Sounds like the bike for me. I hear its not as stiff as various other bikes and certainly not as stiff as the Dogma but nevertheless a satisfying ride.


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## Ride_glendale (Sep 4, 2002)

Aussie Carl said:


> Thanks for your comments folks - at this end of the market I try not to think about the price at all (ouch!), that's why I was interested in peoples thoughts on the relative pro's and con's of the two frames, aside from cost, especially taking into consideration my size and weight and the sort of riding I do.
> 
> Some frames are really designed for smaller/lighter riders and then just upscaled for tall b*ggers like me, which doesn't always translate into a comfortable or nimble bike (and frankly I look plain silly on a compact frame anyway;-) Are there any taller riders out there that can shed some light on the Pinarello's and Opera's?
> 
> ...


Carl - in comparison to some other carbon bikes I've had / ridden - like the Ridely Damocles (stiffest carbon ive ridden), Colnago C40, and Orbea Orca - the Paris aint the stiffest (like the Ridley) and not as plush as the C40, but somewhere in between. I've ridden a Dogma FP and even though I'm not a heavy wattage kinda rider, the Dogma was stiff and agile. Would I feel a difference between the Dogma FP and a regular Dogma, probably not. I would say as a crit bike, the Paris wouldnt be my 1st choice. But as a road race (aka varied terrain) and 3 - 5 hour ride, I'd choose the Paris.

Dont get me wrong, the Paris is stiff .. but not at the league of the Ridley... I can see why Robbie M. likes to sprint on that puppy. But then again, Robbie can beat me on a Beach Cruiser! haha.

-Ed


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## Ride_glendale (Sep 4, 2002)

Trevor! said:


> Sounds like the bike for me. I hear its not as stiff as various other bikes and certainly not as stiff as the Dogma but nevertheless a satisfying ride.


This is very very true. You'll enjoy it.


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## Aussie Carl (Jan 11, 2006)

Ride_glendale said:


> This is very very true. You'll enjoy it.


Looks like another work out for the ol' credit card coming up;-)


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## [email protected] (Sep 23, 2005)

Aussie Carl said:


> Looks like another work out for the ol' credit card coming up;-)


Hi AC,

The frames are very similar. They use the same carbon, both monocoque unidirectional 46HM3K carbon, weight is about the same. The geometry is the same... tube shapes are a bit different. The Leonardo does not have the wrinkles that the PC has. I too wonder if Pinarello absords Opera. it seems the Opera mission has been accomplished. I decided to go with the Canova anyhow. In the San Francisco Bay Area, one needs to goto extremes to have a one-off high-end bike. I can appreciate that Opera is less known.


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## Aussie Carl (Jan 11, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Hi AC,
> 
> The frames are very similar. They use the same carbon, both monocoque unidirectional 46HM3K carbon, weight is about the same. The geometry is the same... tube shapes are a bit different. The Leonardo does not have the wrinkles that the PC has. I too wonder if Pinarello absords Opera. it seems the Opera mission has been accomplished. I decided to go with the Canova anyhow. In the San Francisco Bay Area, one needs to goto extremes to have a one-off high-end bike. I can appreciate that Opera is less known.


I must confess I hadn't considered the Canova - it looks great especially the white and black colour scheme with the painted forks - perhaps this is another option I should look into... How comfortable is it on rough surfaces? I take it as read that it is good for climbing being as your from SF - Jeez, did I get fit hiking about when I was over your side of the ditch a few years ago!


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## [email protected] (Sep 23, 2005)

Aussie Carl said:


> I must confess I hadn't considered the Canova - it looks great especially the white and black colour scheme with the painted forks - perhaps this is another option I should look into... How comfortable is it on rough surfaces? I take it as read that it is good for climbing being as your from SF - Jeez, did I get fit hiking about when I was over your side of the ditch a few years ago!


I thought about the Leonardo FP, but I work at a bike shop and I'm not exactly making a mint here  
It's not as comfortable as my old trusty Bob Jackson, but I find it quite enjoyable all the same. I have heard people complain about the F4:13 (Canova equiv.) being a bit harsh, but I suspect those folks to be much lighter than I. It climbs like a champ, it's a very stable and deliberate descender as well. I must confess that this is based on an F4:13 that I was able to demo. I have had the Canova on order since January... I'm getting impatient.


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## dawgcatching (Apr 26, 2004)

Dennis,

You may be surprised at how comfortable the Canova is. I haven't seen one in person yet, but was told that the Canova was based on the Paris Carbon/Leonardo FP with regards to the tubing diameter (ie smaller) in ordrer to cover the price point for an all-day carbon bike. Therefore, it won't likely be as stiff as the F4:13 (which is a rough ride for lighter riders, I wouldn't recommend it to a lightweight like me at 150lbs, as I owned mine for exactly 3 rides, which was enough punishment) and will be more comfortable. The F4:13 has that huge teardrop-shaped downtube that is ultra stiff. I would expect that the Canova more of an all-day race bike, just based on the smaller diameter, more conventional tubing. Give us an update when you get yours built!


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## foz (Sep 30, 2004)

*exactly the same except...*

for the BB. the paris has a standard sized BB thread, while the leonardo uses the 'most' system with oversize threads and bearings (can also be used with normal sized BB units, by threading in the adaptors). the only other differences are the paint and the 'wrinkles' in the paris, both of which are purely aesthetic (i think i saw somewhere some marketing babble about the wrinkles absorbing vibrations or some other BS, but i don´t buy it...)
the price is the same for both frames here in europe (the leonardo is 80 euros more, but comes with the BB).
i ordered my paris in blue last week, not sure how long it´ll take but i know it´ll be worth it!!!

foz


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## dawgcatching (Apr 26, 2004)

foz said:


> for the BB. the paris has a standard sized BB thread, while the leonardo uses the 'most' system with oversize threads and bearings (can also be used with normal sized BB units, by threading in the adaptors). the only other differences are the paint and the 'wrinkles' in the paris, both of which are purely aesthetic (i think i saw somewhere some marketing babble about the wrinkles absorbing vibrations or some other BS, but i don´t buy it...)
> the price is the same for both frames here in europe (the leonardo is 80 euros more, but comes with the BB).
> i ordered my paris in blue last week, not sure how long it´ll take but i know it´ll be worth it!!!
> 
> foz


Since Pinarello and Opera are basically producing the same frames (Leonardo and Paris Carbon, Giorgione Hydro and Paris) it also wouldn't surprise me to see the Opera line go away. I like them though: I personally love the looks of the Giorgione Hydro (if I had big $ to drop on an aluminum frame, that would be the one) as it somehow looks sleeker than the Paris.


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## Sc0ttyb0y (May 24, 2010)

*Opera Leonardo FP*

Hi Aussie Carl

I ride an Opera Super Leonardo FP and have done for about the last 8 months, I can highly recommend the bike it is not only very stiff but also surprisingly compliant over rougher terrain I have road the Pinna Prince and the Dogma and found that the Super Leo falls in between the Dogma and the Prince, I am only 5'8" and about 70 kg but feel that you would have no trouble with this frame, I have road this bike on a couple of 180klm days and dont feel I was any sorer then normal for spending such a long time in the saddle.
As for the brand lasting who is to know but Mr Pinarello sold the Pinarello name in the early 2000s I think and decided that he would then create the Opera Brand for himself so it has a good man behind it and a name that can be trusted in the bike industry.
Good luck with your choice..

Scott


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## Texas Steel (Aug 7, 2012)

ScOttybOy,

I am 5'8". Inseam 32.5"/82 cm. What size Opera Super Leonardo do you have? Nashbar has 51 cm on sale for a good price. Thanks


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## Lucky Carl (Jun 28, 2009)

Well looks like I have deserted this thread for way too long! 

I eventually went for the Opera Leonardo FP and love it. I have travelled to the TdF with her and cycled through France and Italy including to the Pinarello bikeshop in Treviso where I had my photo taken with Giovanni Pinarello - a definite highlight of the trip. 

Anyway, she is definitely a keeper.

Cheers,

Carl


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## martinrm (Jul 30, 2012)

So Opera is Pinarello? How do they compare to pinarellos?


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