# Zipp 404 Firecrest Carbon Clincher



## masfish1967 (Mar 3, 2010)

So the big question with the new Zipp 404 Firecrest Carbon Clincher is it really true that they can withstand the heat on mountain descents? With all the actual stories of all carbon clinchers melting, warping and what not, has Zipp produced a wheelset that can handle the heat? 
I have not seen any real (like actual real life data of a rider) feedback online, just product reviews that claim what Zipp stated is true. Any of you guys got some experience of using he new Zipps on mountain descents?
I have been hesitant to buying a set of carbon clinchers due to the issue of heat build up but the new Zipps got me wondering if they have solved this issue or are they like Easton and their claim to the thermal trac technology. 
Opinions, suggestions, feedback and answers are always welcomed...


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Had good luck with mine- make sure you use their new brake pads. Really great brake feel with them.


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## masfish1967 (Mar 3, 2010)

Good to hear, I am in GA and wonder if these wheels can handle the descents on Hogpen and Brasstown Bald.


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## terrain (Apr 19, 2009)

Buy a set and let us know - I'll even give you a rep point


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## dcl10 (Jul 2, 2010)

I saw someone burn up a 404 front a couple weeks ago. Not the wheels fault, they guy tried to ride his brakes on a 50mph decent. I don't care, clincher, tubular, carbon, aluminum. You can't do that and not have something go wrong eventually. So if you know what your doing and are not timid on your descents, you'll have no problem with these wheels.


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## s4one (Jun 8, 2008)

It seems like there is a correct way to install the wheels, is the hub preload cap with the screw suppose to be facing forward or backwards? The screw end is the fatter part and the other end is thinner.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

s4one said:


> It seems like there is a correct way to install the wheels, is the hub preload cap with the screw suppose to be facing forward or backwards? The screw end is the fatter part and the other end is thinner.


it's an aero thing, so the narrow end goes facing forward


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## Wines of WA (Jan 10, 2005)

dcl10 said:


> I saw someone burn up a 404 front a couple weeks ago. Not the wheels fault, they guy tried to ride his brakes on a 50mph decent. I don't care, clincher, tubular, carbon, aluminum. You can't do that and not have something go wrong eventually. So if you know what your doing and are not timid on your descents, you'll have no problem with these wheels.


This is a key point in my experience. You have to know how to brake. My method is to basically brake harder but for shorter durations. That way the rims have a chance to cool off between bouts of braking. And in my finger-tip testing, rims don't seem to get hotter under hard braking versus softer "riding the brakes".


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## CliveDS (Oct 7, 2009)

I am in SC and own a store - sold a lot of the new 404's around the area and GA as well and not a single come back yet. I have had quite a few pair of Reynolds lower end carbon clinchers come back with the rims split from overheating. 

I reviewed the 404's on my blog and Zipp responded to my comments about using swiss stop pads with some interesting follow up: 

http://glorycycles.blogspot.com/2010/11/zipp-404-carbon-clincher-brake-pad.html


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## masfish1967 (Mar 3, 2010)

OK terrian, I will take your rep point.....

Picked up a pair of the wheels on Friday and hit the roads over the weekend - 

Sat - 50 mile group ride of moderate climbing with a few flats - wheels seemed to want to roll faster and faster as the speeds increased, much fun in the pace line doing 25-30mph, just had the be more aware of the space between me and the next wheel and adjust my pedelaing a bit to compensate fo the increased areo effect. Also they are suprisingly a good set of wheels for climbing - able to get out of the saddle and power up the steeps with the wheels holding stiff and accelerating forward.

Sun - 50 mile group ride of similar roads but a few more climbs than flats. Layed into the brakes on one descent to see what would happen and they got warm enough to give off the burning cork smell but no issues of overheating noted. The braking modulation/power is good and not much different than the feel of aluminum - suprised indeed!

Next Weekend - the big test will come on Sat, we will be heading up to N. GA to hit up the 6 gap ride with Brasstown added in for fun. This route has 12,500 feet of climbing and the descent down Brasstown will be an extreme test of the wheels ability to not overheat and blow to bits.


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## terrain (Apr 19, 2009)

Congrats on the 404s - rep added.

I would love to find a set of carbon clinchers that had the same ride characteristics of my bora ultra's. Having ridden the older 404s I was not impressed. I need to test ride the new firecrests to see how they compare.





masfish1967 said:


> OK terrian, I will take your rep point.....
> 
> Picked up a pair of the wheels on Friday and hit the roads over the weekend -
> 
> ...


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## masfish1967 (Mar 3, 2010)

Ride Report - the route was 50 miles, 4 mountain climbs and 6800ft ascend/descend - Jacks Gap - Brasstown Bals - Unicoi Gap - Hogpen Gap. The wheels had no difficulty with going up or down and the rims handled the excessive braking on the descents. At first, I was timid and kept the speed down feathering the brakes excessively to reduce heat build up but later really let them fly and laid into the braking when needed to not die on the curves. The smell of burning cork was the only sign of heat related issues and this was commented by those behind me. The real beauty of the wheels is the hubs - they roll and roll and roll - amazingly! Final Thought - great all round wheelset - just what I was wanting.


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## ejabbale (May 28, 2011)

CliveDS said:


> I am in SC and own a store - sold a lot of the new 404's around the area and GA as well and not a single come back yet. I have had quite a few pair of Reynolds lower end carbon clinchers come back with the rims split from overheating.
> 
> I reviewed the 404's on my blog and Zipp responded to my comments about using swiss stop pads with some interesting follow up:
> 
> http://glorycycles.blogspot.com/2010/11/zipp-404-carbon-clincher-brake-pad.html



Were the Reynolds that came back to your shop the 2011s with their supposedly improved brake track? I am debating the Reynolds Assault, Zipp 404 or Zipp 303 (to stay with aluminum brake track).

The feedback on the new 404 seems very positive


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

How is the left-right stiffness on these wheels?

Any flex when out of the saddle and climbing, or sprinting from bigger guys?


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## masfish1967 (Mar 3, 2010)

I am a bigger dude - 6'1" 195lbs. The wheels are stiff and ramp up to speed super quick. Very little flex left to right when on the climbs, out of the saddle and stamping on the 39x25. For example, Brasstown Bald has a section called the "wall" with grades of 20-25 - the wheels did not flex under the load.
These wheels want to go faster and this is noticeable when you hit speeds 25+ - the areo seems to kick in and you can feel it. When sprinting they jump and jump quick, accelerate and roll fast taking all the power input forward.


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

Good to hear - whack any good potholes with them?


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## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

Wines of WA said:


> This is a key point in my experience. You have to know how to brake. My method is to basically brake harder but for shorter durations. That way the rims have a chance to cool off between bouts of braking. And in my finger-tip testing, rims don't seem to get hotter under hard braking versus softer "riding the brakes".


on decents I usually ABS brake alternate between back and front but only before a tight corner. Otherwise... all the way down we gooooooooooooooooooo


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## tetonrolla (Jun 12, 2011)

I've had good luck with my 404 firecrest clinchers thus far. Very stiff and smooth rolling.

Only 500 miles of riding, but these include numerous Teton Pass descents (10%+). Slight discoloration of the brake track area (lightened) but minimal heat and good feel. Very little heat after descents (and especially compared to buddies with other carbon clinchers).

Great overall feel, and very versatile aero performance from a clincher.


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## masfish1967 (Mar 3, 2010)

500 miles and loving them more and more....
I have now used them in about every ride condition I ride in - Race, Group, Solo, Dry and Wet.
The braking has surpassed my expectations and the more that I ride the less that I worry about their performance. Just like Tetonrolla, the brake track has a slight discoloration from the cork pads but they seem to "broke in" - the modulation is good and the stopping power is good as well - not much different than from alloy. They are now my everyday wheel set and do this well. Yesterday was my first wet ride and once again - no problems. Yes, when wet and you apply the brakes, the initial feel is of the pads removing the water from the brake track but then quickly they engage and work well in slowing and stopping without over shooting anything. Time to put in some more miles and see how they hold up to everday use. Another report after 1000.


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## tanong (Aug 25, 2011)

How much the price of this Firesrest wheelset?


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## nhluhr (Sep 9, 2010)

tanong said:


> How much the price of this Firesrest wheelset?


2700 USD is the MSRP.


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## Chiodos48 (Mar 22, 2011)

My 404's seem to soak up any bumps in the road compared to my Mavic Ksyrium Premiums. Couldn't comprehend the difference between the two wheel-sets!


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## stonepa (Jan 12, 2012)

*Advice Please*

All,

I'm new to the forum. Been riding since the 70's, used to race crits in the 80's and 90's on a Dura Ace Paramount. I pretty much ride for a workout now (including a century or 2 per month in the summer) but I do not race anymore. 

My latest ride is a Trek Madone 6.9 with full SRAM Red. I bought it with the Bontrager RLs because I was fearful of what the dreadful roads here in Cleveland would do to a carbon wheel. Now that my confidence is bit higher I want to get a carbon wheel that is lighter and stiffer than the aluminum hoops I have. I am considering the Zipp 404 Carbon Clincher. Any thoughts on this wheel as a day to day wheel? I don't want to buy something I need to replace every year or so but I do want something stiff and light.

Will these wheels survive several years of 3-4k miles a year? I don't have a lot of long screamer hills but I do have a lot of short stiff climbs and descents.

Thoughts? Am I nuts?


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## tetonrolla (Jun 12, 2011)

404 carbon clinchers are great everyday wheels. I have a few friends who use them for all their training, and switch to tubular 404s or 808s for racing. Mine have stayed very true through last season, including a mix of pavement and dirt roads, and plenty of climbing and descending.

I'd say, if you have the $$, pull the trigger. You won't regret them. They are stiff, light, aero and will transform the way your bike rides. You can probably even find a good used set at for a decent price. Best lightweight aero carbon clinchers on the market. The new 303 clinchers will also be sweet.


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## Mdrnizd (Oct 21, 2009)

I have a friend that rides his 404 Firecrest Carbon Clinchers everyday and loves them. He has about 18k on them and has not had any issues.


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## gun2head (Sep 3, 2006)

I'm 6'2" 185lbs. Been using my 404 firecrest clinchers for a year. Live in the HIlls in Northern Cal. I've only had them overheat one time and I had plenty of warning. It was 105 degrees out (probably hotter on the tarmac!) and about 6 miles of heavy switchback downhill and steep with speed between corners. Literally had to ride the brakes or go super slow with feathering. I decided to test the limit of the wheel with heavy braking. Both tires flatted near the bottom after having the pads feel like they were losing grip and modulation. I had plenty of time to cool the brakes and wheels off (smelled it too). Tires simply flatted without massive blowout or anything. I in no way condone or advocate for the testing that I did. So don't do it. Saw several other riders (wife on Bontragers that blew rear tire off same ride) have probe due to heat. I love the 404's and they do a great job far as I'm concerned, but like all racing/performance components, you can push anything to failure. Ridden in a responsible and normal manner, these wheels work great. :thumbsup:


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