# Road Carbon Fork Failure



## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

How often have you heard or experience a trauma or fall involving a carbon fork fracture or failure? I was happily riding a couple of days ago when suddenly my bike deviated to the right, it felt as if collapsing towards the top tube, then the front wheel suddenly stopped, my right foot ended up in between the spokes of my brand new Neuvation M28 Aero3. Not one spoke broke but I took a nasty fall with significant facial trauma that even fractured my helmet and scratched my sunglasses. A good samaritan on a pick up truck told me I was out cold, like a boxer getting knocked out, and was concerned enough to stop. To me it felt as if I was going to sleep but needed to wake up and could not...Actually I felt quite comfortable laying prone with my face on the asphalt, he-he...I wobbled to my bike and noticed a horizontal and circumferential fracture about 1/3 way down the right fork leg, the front wheel with a huge wobble but no broken spokes.
The ER evaluation was unremarkable except for a right facial hematoma, full thickness abrasions, and a 7cm serrated and deep laceration to my right nasolabial fold, requiring 18 stitches. The swelling has improved over the last 2 days. I was so swollen and bruised, that not even my German Sheppherd recognized me, barking and running away freaked out scared...
Now, did the fork fracture before or after the fall? Could my right foot lodging in the front wheel spokes had caused the fork fracture without one single broken spoke? The right fork leg has a horizontal and full circumferential crack with the clearcoat laminate peeled off. It is ready to break off, very loose and unstable.
I am taking it to my LBS this afternoon for a complete detail inspection, and see if I just need to just replace the fork, and not the frame as well. This is my first ever closed head injury with loss of consciousness. It is a very disconcerting and dangerous experience! I will only ride brand name forks from now on. I am debating between Ritchey vs Easton...


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Glad you're okay. 

I had a steel fork fail on me on a ride but I was able to stop before it broke. I noticed that the front end of my bike was wobbling a bit. I stopped and found that the fork was cracked at the fork crown.

What brand of fork was this?


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

il sogno said:


> Glad you're okay.
> 
> I had a steel fork fail on me on a ride but I was able to stop before it broke. I noticed that the front end of my bike was wobbling a bit. I stopped and found that the fork was cracked at the fork crown.
> 
> What brand of fork was this?


Hey thanks, I am still shaken up and very achy from head to toes! It was a generic no name carbon fork...


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

from your older post:

"I have three carbon ebay frames from bicycle_999 and still loving it! I still have a good life insurance just in case...Safety concerns, uhmm, see what happened to the great safety record of Toyota, with all those years of customer proven trust, and now... LOL. ru1-2cycle

glad you didn't need to make use of that life insurance policy - sell the frames and buy a decent one from a company that has some quality control


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

stevesbike said:


> from your older post:
> 
> "I have three carbon ebay frames from bicycle_999 and still loving it! I still have a good life insurance just in case...Safety concerns, uhmm, see what happened to the great safety record of Toyota, with all those years of customer proven trust, and now... LOL. ru1-2cycle
> 
> glad you didn't need to make use of that life insurance policy - sell the frames and buy a decent one from a company that has some quality control


LOL...yep and ouch!


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## turtle14 (Jul 21, 2009)

ru1-2cycle said:


> LOL...yep and ouch!


Wow, glad you're ok!

So was this the ebay fork that collapsed? I realize it may have just been a fluke accident, but its good to know either way.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

turtle14 said:


> Wow, glad you're ok!
> 
> So was this the ebay fork that collapsed? I realize it may have just been a fluke accident, but its good to know either way.


Yes, it was the ebay straight carbon fork. I am very disappointed, since my mechanic and I inspected the fork closely, and it seemed flawless. I also inspect the fork and frames before my rides, and never found any chips or potentially dangerous flaws, yet I still became a trauma victim...I wonder if even the brand name forks will be a concern for catastrophic failure as well.


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## Kristatos (Jan 10, 2008)

il sogno said:


> I had a steel fork fail on me on a ride but I was able to stop before it broke. I noticed that the front end of my bike was wobbling a bit. I stopped and found that the fork was cracked at the fork crown.


Similar failure on my name-brand carbon fork. A crack formed at the high stress point on the back of the fork from the steer tube down to the inside of the leg. Fortunately I noticed some slight wobble. 

Seems weird for a fork to fail 1/3 the way down the leg - bummer about the injuries but glad it was nothing more serious.


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## rward325 (Sep 22, 2008)

Very glad to hear you are mending up.

Get rid of the inexpensive CF frames and forks and buy one quality one

The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the memory of low price. Or something along those lines is what my Dad used to say.


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

Glad you are ok. 

Any pics of this fork at the break?


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## Sherpa23 (Nov 5, 2001)

How are you checking the forks? You should take a quarter and lightly tap the fork legs down from the crown toward the bottom looking for voids. If you hit a void, it makes a very dead sounding thud. Usually, if a one piece fork fails about 1/3 of the way down one of the legs, this is usually the cause. I have never seen out fail there without some sort of outside interference, such as a crash or a foot or pedal in the spokes. I have seen a fair number of forks with those defects but only two failures. Anyway, if you're just looking at the fork, there would be no way to tell if there is a defect or not.


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## Frith (Oct 3, 2002)

*Foot in fork*

I broke my carbon fork a while back while testing out some new pedals... 
here is the thread detailing my experience trying to get it warrantied.
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=3028&highlight=fork

I was getting going at an intersection when my foot flung forward into the front wheel. It was carried forward by the spoke and then sheared through my fork as if it was butter.
It was definitely rider error on my part but still slightly scary to think that a spoke is stronger than a carbon fork.

Your experience sounds more like the fork broke before anything else. Still seems a bit odd that your foot ended up in the spokes *after* this though... are you sure you're remembering everything correctly?


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

Frith said:


> I broke my carbon fork a while back while testing out some new pedals...
> here is the thread detailing my experience trying to get it warrantied.
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=3028&highlight=fork
> 
> ...


I definitely remember the bike "giving in" and the front end coming towards me, ah, then I heard a crack and then my foot in the spokes...The bike was feeling less stiff when off the saddle climbing a couple of days before my crash. The wheel was turned to the right and the shoe did not get a scratch either, since the wheel had stopped fully prior to the shoe lodging in the spokes. The front wheel has a huge wobble that can not clear the brakes, and it has resistance as if the brake is on. Everything happened fast but I felt as if I was seeing everything in slow motion.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

It is mind boggling to realize that a person can sustain such a massive injury at a relatively low speed. I was beginning a 5% short hill climb at about 12-13 MPH and with a strong tail wind, and had just descended at about 45 MPH a few minutes prior to the crash.


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## Frith (Oct 3, 2002)

Dude that's scary. Sometimes I wonder about this sport we love so much.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

Frith said:


> Dude that's scary. Sometimes I wonder about this sport we love so much.


Very true, Fritz. I like cycling so much that I am already looking at two carbon forks: Easton EC 90 SLX vs Ritchey WCS carbon? Any preferences or suggestions?


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## George M (Sep 25, 2008)

I heard something about that Easton fork failing. You may want to search the forums or Goggle. It could have been on the bike forums.net,but I'm not sure.Glad to hear your alright though.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

George M said:


> I heard something about that Easton fork failing. You may want to search the forums or Goggle. It could have been on the bike forums.net,but I'm not sure.Glad to hear your alright though.


Good to know, George, I am leaning towards Ritchey.


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## George M (Sep 25, 2008)

ru1-2cycle said:


> Good to know, George, I am leaning towards Ritchey.



I have a heavy duty Ritchey CF fork, on my Jamis Coda which has over 7000 miles. No problems at all, good luck.:thumbsup:


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## Grabeef (Jan 20, 2010)

When fitting the crown race to my carbon fork, it got me thinking. It took a LOT of effort to get it on using the "hold fork upside down and bang over a plastic pipe method". I wonder how many people have stood there armed with a 4 pound lump hammer ready to give that crown race a good pounding with the forks taking the load.
Mind you, they are supposedly manufactured to the European Standard which requires the bike to withstand a drop with 90 kilos on it.
And to the OP, I am not questioning your bike building skills. This has been on my mind for the last two weeks.


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## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

That's the problem with any so-called "monocoque" carbon structure. Once it comes out of the mold, it cannot be fully inspected short of an x-ray. Most reputable manufacturers using this method will regularly pull a sample and cut it apart. But that increases production cost. "Tube-to tube" construction can be more readily inspected. 

As somebody in the industry once pointed out to me, the mainland Chinese industrial model is based upon the Soviet model, while the Taiwanese model is based upon Japan's. Draw your own conclusions.

As to Easton or Ritchey, you really can't go wrong with either.


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## HeluvaSkier (Sep 11, 2007)

Do you have pictures of the fork? My girlfriend is on one of those right now... it might be time to get her off that fork.


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## hipcheck5 (Dec 11, 2009)

How did I know that when I read the original post Steve would be in here ripping on those ebay frames? Dude needs to get a life.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*Pixs*



HeluvaSkier said:


> Do you have pictures of the fork? My girlfriend is on one of those right now... it might be time to get her off that fork.


I will try to download a couple of pictures of the fractured fork using my spouse's new laptop, mine is 11 years old...I had just purchased a brand new carbon frame and fork from the same ebay seller, and now we will be replacing that fork as well. It is not sane or safe to allow anyone to ride on those forks, IMHO one fork failure is too many and too risky...


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## velomateo (Mar 7, 2009)

ru1
Sorry about your crash and I sincerely hope you recover quickly. I'm curious, did you ever hit anything hard while riding the fork prior to the failure? Like Heluvaskier, I too have concerns. My son is riding the same fork.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*Crash...*



velomateo said:


> ru1
> Sorry about your crash and I sincerely hope you recover quickly. I'm curious, did you ever hit anything hard while riding the fork prior to the failure? Like Heluvaskier, I too have concerns. My son is riding the same fork.


Thanks, Velo. I have been very careful about riding on fairly paved good roads, same good roads that I ride on my expensive clinchers or tubulars. The week prior I busted a spoke on my other FSA 400 road wheel, maybe the fork was starting to get flexy and I just dismiss as trivial? How old is your son? Get a new "branded" fork replacement, no gambling with safety!


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

Since you can't recall any impact or event which may have preceeded the crash, two things could have happened:

You REALLY rang your bell. Some accident victims lose recollection of what was happening immediately prior to the crash i.e, hit a pothole, etc.

The fork failure was the cause of the crash.

Without a memory or witnesses, it's sorta worthless to figure out what caused the crash.

While the industry today proclaims carbon forks very safe, when they fail, they fail very abruptly/with little warning.

I'm not a fan of carbon forks and don't ride them myself. But if you choose to continue to ride carbon forks, your best bet is to stick to a brand name.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*No potholes*



Peter P. said:


> Since you can't recall any impact or event which may have preceeded the crash, two things could have happened:
> 
> You REALLY rang your bell. Some accident victims lose recollection of what was happening immediately prior to the crash i.e, hit a pothole, etc.
> 
> ...


There are no potholes on that particular area of highway...I have been riding on that road for 10 years now. I have not hit major potholes at all, I "babie" my wheels when riding on fine racing clinchers, like the Vittoria Diamante Pro Light. This experience has made me reconsider my perceptions and expectations for carbon composite equipment. There was one witness, the driver who saw me collapsed after falling on my bike suddenly and not getting up. He also offered to transport me to the hospital, but I had him drive me home instead, since I lived just 3 miles away from the crash site.


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## HeluvaSkier (Sep 11, 2007)

Out of curiosity, what do you weigh? 

BTW - I hope you heal up fast.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*Weight*



HeluvaSkier said:


> Out of curiosity, what do you weigh?
> 
> BTW - I hope you heal up fast.


I weight 190lbs.


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## hipcheck5 (Dec 11, 2009)

ru1-2cycle said:


> I will try to download a couple of pictures of the fractured fork using my spouse's new laptop, mine is 11 years old...I had just purchased a brand new carbon frame and fork from the same ebay seller, and now we will be replacing that fork as well. It is not sane or safe to allow anyone to ride on those forks, IMHO one fork failure is too many and too risky...


Do you add any other brands or materials that fail to the list of things not "sane or safe?"


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## TWB8s (Sep 18, 2003)

Unless you're upwards of 400# you have nothing to worry about on a name brand carbon fork. 

To answer your original question, the only forks that I've seen fail in more than 30 years of cycling were involved in an impact. In other words, the rider turned the bike or failed to brake and the front wheel hit a curb, car or other stationary object. 

As an added anecdote, I have a Bontrager (Trek) carbon fork on my 29er mountainbike. I have crashed, run into trees, roots and rocks and it is 100% functional and safe.

The carbon fork on my Lemond (Trek made) and the Wound Up on my Seven are made by name brand companies. Individually these forks aren't cheap. I haven't priced them but I'd guess I'd be looking at $200-$400 if I replaced them. 

To me a $300 is cheap insurance compared to the $500 deductible I have on my medical insurance and potential lost wages because I my face is busted and I can't work.

I learned that lesson the hard way in 1989. While riding at night I hit a pothole hard enough the rim on the front rim broke in 3 places. Both hub flanges hit the ground, then the brake levers and then my face. I was found unconscious and a couple hours later I awoke on a CT table. 50-some stitches in my face and a broken nose were the extent of my injuries. My Giro Prolite took the bulk of the impact and was in pieces. 

The company who made the rim replaced the broken parts, paid my deductible and said they were sorry. I only missed 4 days of work.

So I'm leery of off-brand or no-name parts.


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## Jim311 (Sep 18, 2009)

TWB, what brand was the rim? Some generic knockoff, or something brand name?


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*Trauma: lesson learned*



TWB8s said:


> Unless you're upwards of 400# you have nothing to worry about on a name brand carbon fork.
> 
> To answer your original question, the only forks that I've seen fail in more than 30 years of cycling were involved in an impact. In other words, the rider turned the bike or failed to brake and the front wheel hit a curb, car or other stationary object.
> 
> ...


TW that was some catastrophic equipment failure and consequent severe trauma! I'm on my 4th day post trauma, I feel and look better, my dogs do not run away and recognize me, but I'm still not ready to return to my clinical rounds yet. I am glad I had some savings. The worst part is having to re-tell your mechanism of injury to every patient or nurse I would see...lol. I am leery of no-name bike parts now as well.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)




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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)




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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*Fractured Fork Photo*

How do I transfer the photo of my fractured fork located in "member's gallery" to this thread? Thanks, ru1-2cycle


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

ru1-2cycle said:


> How do I transfer the photo of my fractured fork located in "member's gallery" to this thread? Thanks, ru1-2cycle


You must post using the "Quote" or "Go Advance" buttons. 

Scroll down. Click on the "Upload Photos" button in the "Additional Options" section. Browse and upload the photo file from your computer.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*Photo*



il sogno said:


> You must post using the "Quote" or "Go Advance" buttons.
> 
> Scroll down. Click on the "Upload Photos" button in the "Additional Options" section. Browse and upload the photo file from your computer.


I managed to get that far. But how do I post now to this particular thread from my member's gallery?


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

I'm not seeing the break in that photo... is it intact but just cracked? If so I'm guessing the fork did not cause the crash.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

ru1-2cycle said:


> I was happily riding a couple of days ago when suddenly my bike deviated to the right, it felt as if collapsing towards the top tube, then the front wheel suddenly stopped, my right foot ended up in between the spokes of my brand new Neuvation M28 Aero3. Not one spoke broke ...I wobbled to my bike and noticed a horizontal and circumferential fracture about 1/3 way down the right fork leg, the front wheel with a huge wobble but no broken spokes.... Now, did the fork fracture before or after the fall? Could my right foot lodging in the front wheel spokes had caused the fork fracture without one single broken spoke?


Glad it seems you'll recover, and your dog will eventually recognize you. I'm going to say the fork fractured first. The lack of spoke damage doesn't surprise me. The spokes on M28s are 4.1mm steel. They're like tree trunks. A few weeks ago I had my derailleur pulled into my rear M28. The derailleur hanger exploded. The derailleur wrapped around, hit and dented the frame, and stopped the wheel instantly at about 16 MPH. One spoke on the M28 bent, and I was able to true the wheel in about 3 minutes without replacing the bent spoke. (I've relegated that to a trainer only wheel just in case, though.) 

I guess this is a good reminder to check a bike if anything feels different. You might also want to post a reply in the 'Helmet Paranoia' thread- sounds like it saved your life, or at least prevented you from becoming a vegetable.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

rruff said:


> I'm not seeing the break in that photo... is it intact but just cracked? If so I'm guessing the fork did not cause the crash.


I have a feeling that's the 'before' picture?


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

stevesbike said:


> I have a feeling that's the 'before' picture?


I took the picture with my phone camera. The crack is hard to see, but about halfway down the right leg. The bike is at the LBS now. I will try to take other photos with our digital camera. I have another photo with the same phone and will try to post as well.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*Fractured fork*

The fork is gone, totally unstable.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*Fractured fork*

Hey Steve, thanks for the help, I just downloaded the other photo to my gallery. Can you post it for me again? I am going to the LBS and try to take better pixs.


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## hipcheck5 (Dec 11, 2009)

How bad were your leg injuries?


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

I just got a sweet deal on a Ritchey WCS OEM model carbon fork @ PBK for $276.24 and they are selling fast!


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*Fractured Fork*

More pixs @ my gallery...


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## hipcheck5 (Dec 11, 2009)

Hello?


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*Abrasions*



hipcheck5 said:


> How bad were your leg injuries?


I also suffered a superficial abrasion to my right knee and right posterior shoulder.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*Delay*



hipcheck5 said:


> Hello?


Hey hip, sorry, I was at the bike shop...


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## hipcheck5 (Dec 11, 2009)

ru1-2cycle said:


> I also suffered a superficial abrasion to my right knee and right posterior shoulder.


So your foot ended up in the spokes but their was no injury. Interesting.


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## willhs (Apr 10, 2009)

Do a search for carbon fail, and you'll find that every "name brand" carbon breaks. Just fyi.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

ru1-2cycle said:


> More pixs @ my gallery...


I'm a little confused. Is this-

http://gallery.roadbikereview.com/showphoto.php?photo=91279&cat=500&ppuser=254777

- the post crash fracture you were talking about? Fractured CF is usually pretty dramatic. That looks like a defect in the clear coat, possibly caused by the crash.


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## willhs (Apr 10, 2009)

Yeah that doesn't exactly look like this Pinarello fail:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=158545&highlight=pinarello+fail

Your carbon fail is the best looking fail I've seen yet.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

California L33 said:


> I'm a little confused. Is this-
> 
> http://gallery.roadbikereview.com/showphoto.php?photo=91279&cat=500&ppuser=254777
> 
> - the post crash fracture you were talking about? Fractured CF is usually pretty dramatic. That looks like a defect in the clear coat, possibly caused by the crash.


When you pull at the fork it moves, very wobbly and unsteady at the crack line. The most recent photos have a big index finger pointing at the fracture line. Tomorrow I will pull at the fork with the wheel off and take a picture for you and all skeptics. I have been riding road bikes since I was 12, and never had experienced a crash like this one, in which the bike just suddenly feels wobbly and collapsing under you. Have you ever experienced a similar crash? If not, then, you will have a difficult time relating to my traumatic experience. I am posting this for the benefit of other fellow cyclists that may want to reconsider riding on this no brand fork. I am advocating for safety for all of us cyclists.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

hipcheck5 said:


> So your foot ended up in the spokes but their was no injury. Interesting.


I sustained severe facial trauma and a concussion. I am still feeling dizzy at times. This is no joke, but a serious and potentially fatal injury. I have nothing to gain but the gratification of responsibly raising collective awareness about this fork.


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## willhs (Apr 10, 2009)

Unlike this catastrophically spontaneously combusted name brand fork?

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=3028&highlight=fork


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

willhs said:


> Unlike this catastrophically spontaneously combusted name brand fork?
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=3028&highlight=fork


My right fork leg moves when you pull at it. Tomorrow I will demonstrate with photos from the bike shop. I have no idea as to the specific mechanism of failure for this fork and wether or not it fractured before or after the crash, but presently I have severe facial contusions, abrasions and a 7 cm laceration with a fractured fork with a wobbly front wheel with intact spokes as well.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*Helmet*



California L33 said:


> Glad it seems you'll recover, and your dog will eventually recognize you. I'm going to say the fork fractured first. The lack of spoke damage doesn't surprise me. The spokes on M28s are 4.1mm steel. They're like tree trunks. A few weeks ago I had my derailleur pulled into my rear M28. The derailleur hanger exploded. The derailleur wrapped around, hit and dented the frame, and stopped the wheel instantly at about 16 MPH. One spoke on the M28 bent, and I was able to true the wheel in about 3 minutes without replacing the bent spoke. (I've relegated that to a trainer only wheel just in case, though.)
> 
> I guess this is a good reminder to check a bike if anything feels different. You might also want to post a reply in the 'Helmet Paranoia' thread- sounds like it saved your life, or at least prevented you from becoming a vegetable.


The helmet definitely saved me from sustaining a worst head injury!


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

ru1-2cycle said:


> When you pull at the fork it moves, very wobbly and unsteady at the crack line. The most recent photos have a big index finger pointing at the fracture line. Tomorrow I will pull at the fork with the wheel off and take a picture for you and all skeptics. I have been riding road bikes since I was 12, and never had experienced a crash like this one, in which the bike just suddenly feels wobbly and collapsing under you. Have you ever experienced a similar crash? If not, then, you will have a difficult time relating to my traumatic experience. I am posting this for the benefit of other fellow cyclists that may want to reconsider riding on this no brand fork. I am advocating for safety for all of us cyclists.


What I said was "_Fractured CF is usually pretty dramatic. That *looks *like a defect in the clear coat_" I didn't say it wasn't broken, only from the pictures I couldn't tell it was broken. Most pics of broken CF forks I've seen have been of forks that shattered, total failure. I can't say for sure any more than you what did happen, but it's fairly impressive that one leg broke and the other didn't.

Get well.


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## hipcheck5 (Dec 11, 2009)

ru1-2cycle said:


> I sustained severe facial trauma and a concussion. I am still feeling dizzy at times. This is no joke, but a serious and potentially fatal injury. I have nothing to gain but the gratification of responsibly raising collective awareness about this fork.


Two points:

1) What does any of that have to do with the fact that you got your foot caught in the wheel yet suffered no injuries? Sorry, but it is odd that you suffered no injury from that and added with the severe crash but very little damage I am skeptical.

2) You seem to be avoiding anything about name brands having failures, it's all about these ebay/no-name brands being horrible. Many people claim that these frames have people coming here just to tout them, well, so far, you seem to be someone who is here simply to put them down like Steve and MarvinK.


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## TWB8s (Sep 18, 2003)

Jim311 said:


> TWB, what brand was the rim?


A major brand name. The distributor found out and they told the folks back in "the old country". I packed up the whole front wheel, tubular tire and all and gave it to them. They claimed to have never had one fracture before. The pothole was about the size of a basketball, which I hit coasting at about 30 mph. At the time I might have weighed 145#. 

They were good to me so I won't say who they are.


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

Regardless, CF fractures of any sort are scary incidents. I'll be looking forward to some of the other pics of these. Hard to see the exact location for the pics posted. All the exploding CF threads, it motivates me to tap test the bike after I read such. Each post ride, the bike gets a visual to check for any obvious changes anyhow.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

hipcheck5 said:


> Two points:
> 
> 1) What does any of that have to do with the fact that you got your foot caught in the wheel yet suffered no injuries? Sorry, but it is odd that you suffered no injury from that and added with the severe crash but very little damage I am skeptical.
> 
> 2) You seem to be avoiding anything about name brands having failures, it's all about these ebay/no-name brands being horrible. Many people claim that these frames have people coming here just to tout them, well, so far, you seem to be someone who is here simply to put them down like Steve and MarvinK.


I don't know about the second point, but for the first, the rider got his bell rung. His memories may not be perfect. I'm not suggesting that he's intentionally saying something happened that didn't, but I do remember reading that when people have no memory of dramatic events the sub-conscious fills in the blanks with plausible, or even implausible, details which become very real but factually inaccurate memories, similar to the way recovered memories work. I'm afraid without a witness, or NTSB style investigation, we may never know what happend.


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## willhs (Apr 10, 2009)

ru1-2cycle said:


> My right fork leg moves when you pull at it. Tomorrow I will demonstrate with photos from the bike shop. I have no idea as to the specific mechanism of failure for this fork and wether or not it fractured before or after the crash, but presently I have severe facial contusions, abrasions and a 7 cm laceration with a fractured fork with a wobbly front wheel with intact spokes as well.


I'm not saying you aren't hurt, I'm saying that the carbon fails (on name brand forks) in the links I provided show explosions of the structure on both sides. A mobile, barely visible single-sided fracture seems to suggest that it was caused by the crash and not a fail.

I just think it got a little out of hand when everyone got their pitchforks and headed to no-name-brand castle. When pinarello fails spectacularly, everyone blames carbon itself and not pinarello.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*New Fork Photo.*

My bike shop owner and mechanic can not figure out the mechanism of failure for this fork. This bike almost sleeps in bed with me, I do not place it on bike racks, has not hit any big potholes, been very gentle and babie it more than any of my other bikes. I am not superstitious, but uhmm...what are the odds of this particular fork fracturing at that halfway mark, not at the crown? 
Here is another picture taken by my mechanic that I just posted at my gallery's pictures. My mechanic definitely agrees is a fracture of unknown mechanism. My right foot did not even get a scratch or break any spokes. I also purchased a Seven custom fork from my mechanic as well to replace this one for $150, sweet deal! The Ritchey fork will be for my wife. I can't wait to get back on the bike. Ride well and strong. ru1-2cycle:thumbsup:


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

California L33 said:


> I don't know about the second point, but for the first, the rider got his bell rung. His memories may not be perfect. I'm not suggesting that he's intentionally saying something happened that didn't, but I do remember reading that when people have no memory of dramatic events the sub-conscious fills in the blanks with plausible, or even implausible, details which become very real but factually inaccurate memories, similar to the way recovered memories work. I'm afraid without a witness, or NTSB style investigation, we may never know what happend.


I have an ER bill and exam that prove my injury was real. My face also shows the major trauma, and I live with the aches and and pain now, nursing my wounds, and still trying to raise awareness for safety.


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## California L33 (Jan 20, 2006)

ru1-2cycle said:


> I have an ER bill and exam that prove my injury was real. My face also shows the major trauma, and I live with the aches and and pain now, nursing my wounds, and still trying to raise awareness for safety.


Nobody doubts that. Get well.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*Thanks.*



California L33 said:


> Nobody doubts that. Get well.


I appreciated, Cali, thanks.


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## hipcheck5 (Dec 11, 2009)

California L33 said:


> Nobody doubts that. Get well.


True, though I do find it odd he has not posted any pics of his face, but whatever. I think the only doubts are about what and how it happened.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

hipcheck5 said:


> True, though I do find it odd he has not posted any pics of his face, but whatever. I think the only doubts are about what and how it happened.


The fork and front wheel were intact before the fall/crash. I already described my crash. Now, after the crash, I have a carbon fork that is useless and fractured, and severe facial trauma. I am still trying to put it together or find an explanation too.


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## hipcheck5 (Dec 11, 2009)

I forget the doubts about how suddenly no-name brands are horrible but name brands with spectacular failures are the bomb.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

I have a Reynolds Ouzo fork and now this no-name one. I have always advocated for the cheaper prices from China carbon dealers. I appreciate the more accessible good products. This particular fork failure is very hard to explain. Personally I have chosen to rely on brand name forks from now on. It will be interesting to see any brand name fork failure statistics.


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## hipcheck5 (Dec 11, 2009)

ru1-2cycle said:


> I have a Reynolds Ouzo fork and now this no-name one. I have always advocated for the cheaper prices from China carbon dealers. I appreciate the more accessible good products. This particular fork failure is very hard to explain. Personally I have chosen to rely on brand name forks from now on. It will be interesting to see any brand name fork failure statistics.


So one failure (that you can't even say what actually happened to cause it) turns you completely off no-name brands but spectacular failures of name brands means nothing to you. Give me a break.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

hipcheck5 said:


> So one failure (that you can't even say what actually happened to cause it) turns you completely off no-name brands but spectacular failures of name brands means nothing to you. Give me a break.


Not only me but my very experienced bike shop owner and mechanic can not explained it.
This failure occurred with a no name brand fork. Had it occurred with a name brand fork I still would have approached it in the same manner. I am trying to raise collective awareness and perhaps get some expert feedback from fellow RBR forum members. I have not shown any partiality towards brand vs no brand name forks. The odds of this happening are very very slim, like hitting the lottery, lol.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

ru1-2cycle said:


> I have no idea as to the specific mechanism of failure for this fork and wether or not it fractured before or after the crash


You said earlier that your foot went into the spokes of the wheel. Your foot would not *reach* that far unless your foot came out of the pedal... or the fork actually broke off ahead of time. Is is possible that the crash was caused by your foot coming out of the pedal?


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## HeluvaSkier (Sep 11, 2007)

ru1-2cycle said:


> I have not shown any partiality towards brand vs no brand name forks.


Actually in the past you've been a big proponent of the carbon stuff coming out of China. While I don't know if your experience is enough to make me swear-off those products, it is worth taking into consideration. However, based on the number of people who have bought those eBay frames, if there was a serious problem with durability we would know it by now. This is the first or second mention of failure I have seen in the two years that these frames have been around...


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*Odds*



HeluvaSkier said:


> Actually in the past you've been a big proponent of the carbon stuff coming out of China. While I don't know if your experience is enough to make me swear-off those products, it is worth taking into consideration. However, based on the number of people who have bought those eBay frames, if there was a serious problem with durability we would know it by now. This is the first or second mention of failure I have seen in the two years that these frames have been around...


Now, and I become the statistic, how is that for luck factor, eh?


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## hipcheck5 (Dec 11, 2009)

HeluvaSkier said:


> Actually in the past you've been a big proponent of the carbon stuff coming out of China. While I don't know if your experience is enough to make me swear-off those products, it is worth taking into consideration. However, based on the number of people who have bought those eBay frames, if there was a serious problem with durability we would know it by now. This is the first or second mention of failure I have seen in the two years that these frames have been around...


This.

One incident (or two) out of all these on here and it's "no more for me, they are terrible" while ignoring the man incidents with name brands.

Almost makes me wonder if someone is a "reverse shill." Spend time building a rep as a proponent of the name brand frames then have a crazy failure and denounce them totally.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*Exactly...*



hipcheck5 said:


> This.
> 
> One incident (or two) out of all these on here and it's "no more for me, they are terrible" while ignoring the man incidents with name brands.
> 
> Almost makes me wonder if someone is a "reverse shill." Spend time building a rep as a proponent of the name brand frames then have a crazy failure and denounce them totally.


This was my decision, not yours, hip. Everyone reacts differently to severe trauma. I chose to raise awareness for the benefit of others, not for self indulgence or monetary compensation.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*Replacement fork...*

I really like my replacement fork with the brand: "Seven". It transformed my bike aesthetically and it is steady, smooth, responsive. This is a custom fork. I like its matte black stealth look, and beefy Reynolds Ouzo like blades, and still fairly light @ 380 grams. The fractured fork was 350 grams. The Ritchey WCS fork coming from GB will go on my wife's China frame, and will get rid of the generic fork.


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## willhs (Apr 10, 2009)

If you're putting it on your wife's china carbon frame, I presume you still don't mind her riding no-name carbon and you are actually trying to kill her. 

I'm just kidding, but my point is that all carbon has the potential to fail, and with the large number of "death carbon" no-name bikes sold, there is a remarkable paucity of failures, especially relative to the "invincible carbon" provided by name brands.


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

Even brand name forks fail


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*But not mine...*

True, but not mine. My Reynolds Ouzo Comp is still rocking, get over it.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

rruff said:


> You said earlier that your foot went into the spokes of the wheel. Your foot would not *reach* that far unless your foot came out of the pedal... or the fork actually broke off ahead of time. Is is possible that the crash was caused by your foot coming out of the pedal?


That is what I was speculating, but since the front became wobbly and then swerved to the right, and my foot ended up in the spokes of the front wheel with crack sound I believe the fork fracture before the foot reach the spokes...Tha lateral aspect of the right fork leg is completely off while the medial aspect facing the hub is intact. I posted that photo in my gallery, maybe someone, like steve, can post it in this thread for me. Thanks, rruff.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

willhs said:


> If you're putting it on your wife's china carbon frame, I presume you still don't mind her riding no-name carbon and you are actually trying to kill her.
> 
> I'm just kidding, but my point is that all carbon has the potential to fail, and with the large number of "death carbon" no-name bikes sold, there is a remarkable paucity of failures, especially relative to the "invincible carbon" provided by name brands.


My wife will get the Ritchey WCS.


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## rruff (Feb 28, 2006)

ru1-2cycle said:


> That is what I was speculating, but since the front became wobbly and then swerved to the right, and my foot ended up in the spokes of the front wheel with crack sound I believe the fork fracture before the foot reach the spokes...Tha lateral aspect of the right fork leg is completely off while the medial aspect facing the hub is intact. I posted that photo in my gallery, maybe someone, like steve, can post it in this thread for me. Thanks, rruff.


You might not be remembering well... because your foot simply can't get into the spokes if you are clipped in. There are all sorts of things that could cause the bike to wobble, like hitting something in the road... or your foot coming out of the pedal. I'm really not seeing that the fork was the initial cause of this. 

To post a picture, copy the link and put







around it.


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## euro-trash (May 1, 2004)

ru1-2cycle said:


> Very true, Fritz. I like cycling so much that I am already looking at two carbon forks: Easton EC 90 SLX vs Ritchey WCS carbon? Any preferences or suggestions?


First, I hope you heal well and quickly. 

With that having been said, this doesn't make sense to me. The fork cracked, and yet you are still willing to ride the frame from the same material/factory? There are any number of places where a frame could crack and cause an equally catastrophic wreck. If you don't trust the carbon from that company, why put a new fork on those frames? If you suspect a void in the carbon, why don't you think it could be an issue on the frame?


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

I don't doubt the OP is injured and I don't doubt the fork is damaged. "Raising awareness" about the safety of no-name forks seems a bit of a stretch based on one (albeit severe) incident especially when the OP isn't completely certain about the sequence of events. Maybe there is a void in the carbon on that particular fork, but without reports of additional failures this is an isolated incident, not a referendum on Chinese manufacturing or no-name versus name brands. I'm glad you're feeling better and will be back on your bike soon.


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## TWB8s (Sep 18, 2003)

Shiit happens even on branded parts. As long as folks accept the responsibility for the parts they ride I don't care. It's when the bashing and *****ing starts that I have to stand by and say "I told you so" because their 10g whatever part couldn't handle the stress. 

Give me a 20# bike that won't have issues. Oh wait, that'd be my Seven. It ain't light but it won't assplode either. I think I'll go for a ride now.


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## Kuma601 (Jan 22, 2004)

Stuff happens, we've all seen these breakage threads. So long as we come out of it alive without major permanent damage, it is a good thing. We move on. I enjoy my CF bike yet I do have to be more aware in checking it for changes.


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## willhs (Apr 10, 2009)

ru1-2cycle said:


> My wife will get the Ritchey WCS.


Yes, but on the no-name frame


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

willhs said:


> Yes, but on the no-name frame


The generic frames are well built and have not failed. The fork failed and
needed a replacement. I don't think that I could statistically suffered a frame
related failure as well, LOL.


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## willhs (Apr 10, 2009)

That's cool, I totally understand. I'm really sorry that happened to you, and I'd hate to have it happen to anyone. I hope this doesn't keep you from getting back on the bike, especially now that it's finally getting nice outside!


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*Thanks.*



willhs said:


> That's cool, I totally understand. I'm really sorry that happened to you, and I'd hate to have it happen to anyone. I hope this doesn't keep you from getting back on the bike, especially now that it's finally getting nice outside!


Hey thanks willhs, I already have the Seven fork installed on my carbon ebay frame and it is just begging me to ride it, LOL. I have to wait at least for 1-2 weeks of symptoms free at rest and with exertion. I just watched Paris-Niece on Versus, what about Voight superb ITT come back, and after that serious crash at the TDF last year? Man, he is totally inspiring and @ 39! Congrats Voight, after that crash most people would quit.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*Gios*



TWB8s said:


> Shiit happens even on branded parts. As long as folks accept the responsibility for the parts they ride I don't care. It's when the bashing and *****ing starts that I have to stand by and say "I told you so" because their 10g whatever part couldn't handle the stress.
> 
> Give me a 20# bike that won't have issues. Oh wait, that'd be my Seven. It ain't light but it won't assplode either. I think I'll go for a ride now.


I also appreciate my reliable and safe Gios Torino Super Record, no fears of frame or fork failures @ 24 lbs.


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

*No shortcuts.*



Kuma601 said:


> Stuff happens, we've all seen these breakage threads. So long as we come out of it alive without major permanent damage, it is a good thing. We move on. I enjoy my CF bike yet I do have to be more aware in checking it for changes.


Lesson learned: no shortcuts with safety frame and fork pre and post ride checks. And so we move on. Thanks, Kuma.


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## willhs (Apr 10, 2009)

Isn't there a "beating the dead horse" emoticon? I think everything has been said that could be said on this...


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## Sebastionmerckx (Mar 6, 2008)




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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*yes but the frame*



ru1-2cycle said:


> The generic frames are well built and have not failed. The fork failed and
> needed a replacement. I don't think that I could statistically suffered a frame
> related failure as well, LOL.


was made by the same people
I find it odd that what appears to be a mfr defect caused you to faceplant yet you still trust same said mfr. Maybe your head injury has scrambled your logic board.

"Well the frame is fine...." famous last words

let us know how those stats treat ya


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## ru1-2cycle (Jan 7, 2006)

atpjunkie said:


> was made by the same people
> I find it odd that what appears to be a mfr defect caused you to faceplant yet you still trust same said mfr. Maybe your head injury has scrambled your logic board.
> 
> "Well the frame is fine...." famous last words
> ...


Hey atpjunkie good to hear from you. I think I would have a better chance at winning the billion dollar lottery than to suffer a consecutive catastrophic carbon equipment related failure. I could not be so un-lucky...


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

*Moderator's Note.*



curty42082 said:



> I sent you one message to ask you if you personally know this guy or not,so don't act like I'm stalking you. As far as you and this thread,sure buddy you win :thumbsup:


*Ignore* feature- suggest you both start using it. Click on the user's name and the link is on the blue bar.


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