# newb tubular questions- gravel/cx/road mixed riding...



## 2silent

thoughts on going tubular for gravel endurance racing in particular?

I'm going to be building up a new wheelset and understand the benefits of tubular (and think I'd really enjoy them), but i'm worried about speed of changes if anything does go wrong and worried about reliability I guess. I'm trying to take a bunch of long long gravel races seriously.

I'm not as serious about cx, so not worried about needing dry and mud tires or anything. i will just run what I've brung (probably a mud tire for all of fall)

I will also use the same wheelset for some road riding (group rides) as I have no dedicated road bike.



advice for me in going forward with this?

tire suggestions for mixed gravel/road riding?

will it be worth the minor hassles?


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## PeanutButterBreath

A CX tubular glue job is much different than a road installation. It would be much more than a minor hassle to change a damaged tire.

I wouldn't even consider it for a long distance race w/o wheel support. I'd go with tubeless or clinchers.


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## yo mamma

Tubeless. Almost as good as tubular w/ almost no hassles, if you're using the right rims/tires. For example, get a set of Stan's 355 rims laced to any road hubs of your choice and you'll have almost zero problems, especially if using tubeless ready tires, such as Hutchinson Bulldogs or Piranhas, or Stan's Ravens.

If you do flat one on your favorite gravel grinder, all you gotta do is remove the valve stem, put in a tube, and off you go. Oh, yeah, reinflate the tire.


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## 88 rex

yo mamma said:


> Tubeless. Almost as good as tubular w/ almost no hassles, if you're using the right rims/tires. For example, get a set of Stan's 355 rims laced to any road hubs of your choice and you'll have almost zero problems, especially if using tubeless ready tires, such as Hutchinson Bulldogs or Piranhas, or Stan's Ravens.
> 
> If you do flat one on your favorite gravel grinder, all you gotta do is remove the valve stem, put in a tube, and off you go. Oh, yeah, reinflate the tire.



x2:thumbsup:


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## atpjunkie

*get some of the*

Tufo Dry Plus 32 (not the flexus version)
The cheaper ones, pretty damn bulletproof. carry some sealant and an extra Tub and do a more changeable glue job
I ride my tubs on longer rides
just don't use the expensive ones with soft sidewalls
use the trainers


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## 2silent

atpjunkie said:


> Tufo Dry Plus 32 (not the flexus version)
> The cheaper ones, pretty damn bulletproof. carry some sealant and an extra Tub and do a more changeable glue job
> I ride my tubs on longer rides
> just don't use the expensive ones with soft sidewalls
> use the trainers



this is basically exactly what I was thinking- good info on not the flexus though...

I think I'm going this route. I am 160 lbs and people say i'm smooth Wheelbuilder friend thinks it will be ok and will be riding similar (hopefully behind me in the races, lol)

I have another wheelset I can use if I don't like conditions in a particular race for sidewall cuts etc. (and a set of the hutchinson piranhas in 34c). 

These will be almost 500g less rotating mass tho... and that other wheelset is pretty high end 29er stuff (although not as light as a stans set with the tires run tubeless with very little sealant).


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## Hand/of/Midas

atpjunkie said:


> Tufo Dry Plus 32 (not the flexus version)
> The cheaper ones, pretty damn bulletproof. carry some sealant and an extra Tub and do a more changeable glue job
> I ride my tubs on longer rides
> just don't use the expensive ones with soft sidewalls
> use the trainers



Carry an extra tire along for the ride? where? jersey pocket?

I'm in the exact same position as the OP. i've had 350g tub rims laying around for years already, but have been cautious because of flats, but really want to do it now.


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## 88 rex

I think anyone looking to run tubs on gravel grinding type races is really rolling the dice. There is no wheel support crew. There really isn't any advantage at all over tubeless. 

I had a sidewall gouge in a race and promptly threw a tube in and continued on my way. You can't do that with a tubular. You are down and out, for the most part.


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## PeanutButterBreath

Agree. If it works, it works. If you cut a tire, you're done.

How many spare tires are you going to carry in a race (especially at tubular prices)? This is endurance riding. If its a circuit, maybe, but enter a long distance race with one spare?

Besides, if it takes under-gluing, I would not feel safe extracting the full benefit of a tubular.


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## atpjunkie

*also if you want more tread*



2silent said:


> this is basically exactly what I was thinking- good info on not the flexus though...
> 
> I think I'm going this route. I am 160 lbs and people say i'm smooth Wheelbuilder friend thinks it will be ok and will be riding similar (hopefully behind me in the races, lol)
> 
> I have another wheelset I can use if I don't like conditions in a particular race for sidewall cuts etc. (and a set of the hutchinson piranhas in 34c).
> 
> These will be almost 500g less rotating mass tho... and that other wheelset is pretty high end 29er stuff (although not as light as a stans set with the tires run tubeless with very little sealant).


look for the older Tufo Pro Models. The T-30, T-32 and T-34. I ride in San Diego our dirt sux, it is talcum powder on rocks and I ride these tires on them constantly.
I've done lots of damage to these tires and they still hold air. There are the 'MTB' level tire, not as light as a racing Tub but far more durable

Midas - you could attach it to the frame making an arc from ST to TT, old school MTB style. Doubles as a portage pad


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## 88 rex

atpjunkie said:


> I've done lots of damage to these tires and they still hold air. There are the 'MTB' level tire, not as light as a racing Tub but far more durable


I'm definitely not trying to "rag" on you, but I'm just curious. If you have to run heavier tubulars to make up for the security of slashing a tire, then what's the point. You could just run tubeless at comparable, or less weight, and have to just carry an extra tube and patches.

Also, some of these longer endurance type events have "aid stations" which occassionally supply tubes/patches. You can't get that support if you are on tubulars. Also, any racer nearby can throw a tube at you as they pass you, if they are feeling kind enough. 

I have absolutely nothing against tubulars, but for this particular type of event and style, tubulars just make absolutely no sense at all. 

I highly advise AGAINST tubulars for any kind of endurance event or ride where you are pretty much self sufficient.


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## 2silent

for what it's worth, I'm likely to just do both...

that is have a set of tubular cx wheels AND upgrade my other wheelset to the stan's crest rims

I am light, and may end up riding tubular at times where others would not, but will likely not for anything where a unsupported flat would crush me.

thanks for opinions/thoughts both ways.

I may post up in the future after riding tubulars all year iwth no problems, or may not?


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## PeanutButterBreath

2silent said:


> I am light, and may end up riding tubular at times where others would not, but will likely not for anything where a unsupported flat would crush me.


One of the primary benefits of tubulars for CX is the resistance to pinch flats. IOW, being light or heavy is not really a factor over whether they are appropriate for a given application (except maybe being _more_ appropriate for heavier, more pinch flat prone riders).

Reasons I would not use tubulars include cost and relative difficulty of installation and removal.


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## strathconaman

Around here, Paris-Ancaster is the local CX enduro race. 60 km over road, farm track, rail-trail and some singletrack. There is no wheel support.

Last year I rode T-32's. This year I will run Dry Plus 34's. I have seen pros (ok, the pro that parked next to me at the start) run Challenge Griffo's. I don't know of anyone who had problems with their tubulars, but I saw many people at the side of the trail changing tubes.

If that isn't enough anecdotal evidence for you, I don't know what is.


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## PeanutButterBreath

I wonder how 60K compares to the "endurance" racing OP is planning?


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## 88 rex

PeanutButterBreath said:


> I wonder how 60K compares to the "endurance" racing OP is planning?


Exactly. What's 60k? Like 35 miles? That's a sprint compared to some of these gravel grinding races. 50/62/100/200/300+ miles.


And if there is rocky singletrack involved........


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## atpjunkie

*simple*



88 rex said:


> I'm definitely not trying to "rag" on you, but I'm just curious. If you have to run heavier tubulars to make up for the security of slashing a tire, then what's the point. You could just run tubeless at comparable, or less weight, and have to just carry an extra tube and patches.
> 
> Also, some of these longer endurance type events have "aid stations" which occassionally supply tubes/patches. You can't get that support if you are on tubulars. Also, any racer nearby can throw a tube at you as they pass you, if they are feeling kind enough.
> 
> I have absolutely nothing against tubulars, but for this particular type of event and style, tubulars just make absolutely no sense at all.
> 
> I highly advise AGAINST tubulars for any kind of endurance event or ride where you are pretty much self sufficient.


heavier tubs are still lighter than clinchers and in most cases tubeless
tubs can be run at lower psi
clinchers and tubeless (which is in fact just a clincher) use the sidewall as a support structure to hold the tire onto the rim. Tubulars do not, thus they have a more supple sidewall, even a 'training tub' will, to my experience, outperform a clincher. 
Most tubeless can't be run at sub 35 psi without burping, now granted on gravel he may not want that but that is only an option with a tub.

next, you can easily carry sealant in ones jersey pocket. The sealant works on all but the most horrific of flats on a tub and one doesn't even need to remove the wheel to fix thus making most puncture repair faster than a clincher and equal to tubeless

last, I have a set of these tires I'm suggesting. Over the last 3 years I have subjected them to far worse conditions than he is most likely to see in an 'epic gravel' race. I've yet to have a catastrophic fail and these are my daily riders, not 'once on race day' and again, I ride them on rock, roots, cactus AKA what So Cal calls dirt. I have put tears in the sidewalls that didn't fail, I've put cactus needles into the sidewalls, and yet to date have never had to walk my bike home. I can count the flats on one hand which is far better than I can say running clinchers where pinch flatting at my Clydesdale size is so common it is almost expected, even running 50-60 psi where I also lose tire performance.


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## 2silent

I have 6 100 mile races and one 200 on the calendar which this bike will be used for (i will also be doing a few endurance mtb races and some snowmobile trail type races on other bikes). I have plans to ride thousands of training miles- will see how things go while training flat wise etc.. my clincher wheelset option will always be there too- as posted above (hope pro ii/stans crest/hutch pirhana). my wheelbuilder has convinced me to at least give it a try... if it sucks too much reliability wise im not out too much $ and I will have the coolest disc compatable cx wheelset id ever need (good excuse to extend my season a bit, eh?). my biggest concern will be that little race in kansas as the rocks are sharp down there.


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## PeanutButterBreath

FWIW, I have a set of Challenge Grifos that have literally more than 100 goat-head punctures each, all sealed with Stans. Its really only the freak tire cut that you'd have to worry about.

If you haven't already searched them out, there are a lot of good threads around here about CX gluing technique, which differs significantly from road tub installation. This is the reason why swapping tires seems like deal-breaker to me, personally.


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## 2silent

the main difference is primarily due to the pressures being run, correct?

in other words- If I flat so badly I put on the spare and pump it up to 70 or 80 psi on the glue that's left... it will certainly get me home (although obviously I wouldn't be able to race cx without rolling it at that point). At some amount of pressure the tires will be held onto the rim with pressure just as a road tub would be... or will it still not be quite as effectie in that way?


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## 88 rex

2silent said:


> (hope pro ii/stans crest/hutch pirhana)..


I have no experience with the Crest and the new bead hook, but with my 355, the Pirahna is a GREAT fit. (And I have the hope hub too ) 

And ATP........I wouldn't start with a tubed set-up for the type of racing we are talking about. Only tubeless, all my comparo's would be tubeless vs tubular and that's just the mindset I'm taking in the this comparison. Glad to hear those tubs are working for you though and I'm sure that people will finish these races without issue on tubulars, but I still think it's a huge gamble. If I were competing against the guy I'd tell him to run tubulars


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## yo mamma

atpjunkie said:


> Over the last 3 years I have subjected them to far worse conditions than he is most likely to see in an 'epic gravel' race. I've yet to have a catastrophic fail


From what I've seen re: the DK route, I doubt very seriously that you've subjected your tires to worse conditions than the flint rocks that make up much of the route. We're not talking your typical gravel roads.


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## atpjunkie

*I understand the risk involved*



88 rex said:


> I have no experience with the Crest and the new bead hook, but with my 355, the Pirahna is a GREAT fit. (And I have the hope hub too )
> 
> And ATP........I wouldn't start with a tubed set-up for the type of racing we are talking about. Only tubeless, all my comparo's would be tubeless vs tubular and that's just the mindset I'm taking in the this comparison. Glad to hear those tubs are working for you though and I'm sure that people will finish these races without issue on tubulars, but I still think it's a huge gamble. If I were competing against the guy I'd tell him to run tubulars


and agree on that point (actually both points, some people will finish on tubs, some will not)
if he recons the course he should be able to make a fair assessment

All I'm saying is, it isn't impossible to do so if he chooses. People have been riding epics on tubs for awhile


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## 2silent

the Ragnarok 105, Almanzo 100 and the heck of the north are all tubular ready... (so far as I can figure and I have thousands of miles on those roads in last year) as is all of the gravel I regular ride for training (and the roads)

I have not been to Kansas- doubt I'll consider them there from what I've heard. 

I am not even sure I will start the Kansas race with tubeless... just to avoid the mess when I do flat. That said, I hear all this complaining about flats there and I just can't see how it can be quite as bad as some make it sound. 

I will make my own tub impressions as I ride them more and more on gravel training I'm sure...


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## yo mamma

Have you seen the pix of those flint rocks? That area of Kansas is the only place in the US where they're found, and if they don't cut your sidewalls there's always the risk of pinch flats if you're not running at or near max inflation on whatever tires you're using.


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## atpjunkie

*tubulars*



yo mamma said:


> Have you seen the pix of those flint rocks? That area of Kansas is the only place in the US where they're found, and if they don't cut your sidewalls there's always the risk of pinch flats if you're not running at or near max inflation on whatever tires you're using.


don't pinch flat btw


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## yo mamma

atpjunkie said:


> don't pinch flat btw


Thank you, Master of the Intuitively Obvious.


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## 2silent

well- both wheelsets are in progess

definitely plan to stick with the pirhanas for the tubeless (tubed for dk?) set

should I order the challenge grifo xs or the tufo dry 32??? or one of the slighty lighter options... (I'd love to go with the dry flexus, but wary of long term not flatting)

I see conflicting reviews of the quality and ease of installation etc.

These need to be light/fast or I may as well just use the pirhanas- so I need to limit my risk as necessary, but go far enough to the light side that it's worthwhile...

thanks again


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## yo mamma

2silent said:


> well- both wheelsets are in progess
> 
> definitely plan to stick with the pirhanas for the tubeless (tubed for dk?) set
> 
> should I order the challenge grifo xs or the tufo dry 32??? or one of the slighty lighter options... (I'd love to go with the dry flexus, but wary of long term not flatting)
> 
> I see conflicting reviews of the quality and ease of installation etc.
> 
> These need to be light/fast or I may as well just use the pirhanas- so I need to limit my risk as necessary, but go far enough to the light side that it's worthwhile...
> 
> thanks again


Aside from not spewing sealant everywhere should you cut your tire, there's nothing to gain and lots to lose by running tubes when you could be running tubeless. Why risk pinch flatting when you don't need to, especially when pinch flatting is such a significant risk? If you run tubeless and cut your tire, you can always put a tube in then. If you don't cut a tire, you'll run flat-less for the entire event. Just a thought.


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## 88 rex

Also, I'm not sure that you MUST run sealant with Hutch tires. Anyone confirm? I personally do though. The mess isn't THAT bad.


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## yo mamma

88 rex said:


> Also, I'm not sure that you MUST run sealant with Hutch tires. Anyone confirm? I personally do though. The mess isn't THAT bad.


They're tubeless ready, not UST. You'll need the sealant.


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## cmdrpiffle

If you go with tubulars, I'd recommend Vittoria Mastik for the glue. It sticks tires to rims, glue to braking sidewalls, crap on the garage floor to the sidewalls, hair on your arms to your skin, and leaves nice, decorative blotches on your almost new Dockers that you stuipidly wore while gluing tires.

Best part, is none of the damn stuff comes off of anything.

I swear by it....just sayin'

Cheers


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## 2silent

one rear wheel still missing, but...


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## atpjunkie

*looks good*



2silent said:


> one rear wheel still missing, but...


I posted some pix of some of my 'daily riding' actual a link to an older thread
my sidewalls have numerous dings and tears (multiple years of abuse and riding fast on rock) but still hold air just fine


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## MShaw

atpjunkie said:


> Tufo Dry Plus 32 (not the flexus version)
> The cheaper ones, pretty damn bulletproof. carry some sealant and an extra Tub and do a more changeable glue job
> I ride my tubs on longer rides
> just don't use the expensive ones with soft sidewalls
> use the trainers


After what happened on our training ride, I don't blame ya for not riding the good tires no more!

Can you say 'slice open a Tufo 2-3cm?' I can. ATP can. That was one MEAN stick!

Me? Tubular all the way. No chance of burping. No chance of pinch flatting. If you 'Tufo goop' it up, you shouldn't have an issue. :nah I haven't done any different gluing on my cross tires than I have road tires, and I've been riding tubies for nigh on 20 years.

HTH

M


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## MShaw

I've run T-34s for YEARS without issues. I even hit one baby-head rock so hard I dented my rim, but didn't flat. 

As a note: I ride my cross bike like most people ride mtn bikes. The T-34 is one TOUGH tire. :nod Ain't the stickiest. Ain't the lightest. It WILL get you home. 

Thinking about it... I still have one of my set of 3 T-34s in the garage waiting for a mate. Its been on a bike for several years worth of riding and its still got tread. 

I have T-28s on now, and while they're as tough, they don't float as well as the T-34s.

HTH

M


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## 2silent

I realized the image doesn't show clearly- they are dry plus 32s on there. Also, I have xt centerlock rotors I will be running that aren't on yet.

The frame is coming along!


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## atpjunkie

*yes I noticed*



2silent said:


> I realized the image doesn't show clearly- they are dry plus 32s on there. Also, I have xt centerlock rotors I will be running that aren't on yet.
> 
> The frame is coming along!


the set that will replace my T-34s are Dry Plus rear, Primus Front
I'm building a mud/beater set with the base model Cubus as well


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## atpjunkie

*amen to that*



MShaw said:


> After what happened on our training ride, I don't blame ya for not riding the good tires no more!
> 
> Can you say 'slice open a Tufo 2-3cm?' I can. ATP can. That was one MEAN stick!
> 
> Me? Tubular all the way. No chance of burping. No chance of pinch flatting. If you 'Tufo goop' it up, you shouldn't have an issue. :nah I haven't done any different gluing on my cross tires than I have road tires, and I've been riding tubies for nigh on 20 years.
> 
> HTH
> 
> M


had a vicious stick tear a Grifo sidewall @ Infineon a few years back as well

ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch


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## MShaw

atpjunkie said:


> had a vicious stick tear a Grifo sidewall @ Infineon a few years back as well
> 
> ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch


Bummer.

One of the reasons I never went to the $$ tires. I'm a cheap SOB that needs his stuff to last a while. Hence the T-34s!

You ever hear from Cush?

M


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## 2silent

I have now ridden about 500 miles on these with a nice mixture of gravel, pavement and some trail.

They are extremely fast and light!

They have been reliable thus far- although a piece of glass did cut through the tread and lead to a slow flat on a road ride prior to me adding any sealant. No worries when it came to fixing that though.

Friday I rode 70 miles gravel plus 20 of pavement and Saturday 155 miles with about 90 paved, 3 trail and the rest gravel. I'm not sure what could be working better than this setup thus far. I feel they have great riding characteristics and am now pretty confident in them as well.


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## atpjunkie

*one of my 5 year old*



2silent said:


> I have now ridden about 500 miles on these with a nice mixture of gravel, pavement and some trail.
> 
> They are extremely fast and light!
> 
> They have been reliable thus far- although a piece of glass did cut through the tread and lead to a slow flat on a road ride prior to me adding any sealant. No worries when it came to fixing that though.
> 
> Friday I rode 70 miles gravel plus 20 of pavement and Saturday 155 miles with about 90 paved, 3 trail and the rest gravel. I'm not sure what could be working better than this setup thus far. I feel they have great riding characteristics and am now pretty confident in them as well.


Tufos finally gave out. You should see the number of severe tears in the sidewall casings before they finally went


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## atpjunkie

*yes Mike I just spoke with him today*



MShaw said:


> Bummer.
> 
> One of the reasons I never went to the $$ tires. I'm a cheap SOB that needs his stuff to last a while. Hence the T-34s!
> 
> You ever hear from Cush?
> 
> M


he may have some T-30s (no 32s or 34s) on blow out
but he has all the new stuff. I have one training set , dry plus rear, primus front and one set of beater muds (Cubus) 
Lemme know if you ever want me to give him a shout
m


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## atpjunkie

*glad it is working for ya*



2silent said:


> I have now ridden about 500 miles on these with a nice mixture of gravel, pavement and some trail.
> 
> They are extremely fast and light!
> 
> They have been reliable thus far- although a piece of glass did cut through the tread and lead to a slow flat on a road ride prior to me adding any sealant. No worries when it came to fixing that though.
> 
> Friday I rode 70 miles gravel plus 20 of pavement and Saturday 155 miles with about 90 paved, 3 trail and the rest gravel. I'm not sure what could be working better than this setup thus far. I feel they have great riding characteristics and am now pretty confident in them as well.


I knew it would
again carry some sealant, maybe an extra tire (strapped to the saddle or like an old school MTB shouldering unit) and some tape and you should be pretty bullet proof


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## timallard

If your tubulars have dunlop valves you can remove the valve core and slime them, done that on mine for years and it eliminates pin-hole flats, so, rare to have a flat with them. 

One of the things to like about sewups is how they ride, supple, they maintain contact and roll well at any pressure vs clinchers/tubeless, that's why I used them and why they are worth the hassle for any kind of riding.

For a spare, my fav was a $20 cheapo and conti fast glue, and, it doesn't take much longer than changing a clincher really, it's more of having the skill and some practice.

Personally I think they'd be worth it, an advantage on long races. I rode them enough to not worry about fixing flats, they're pretty easy to patch but hard to sew up and re-mount without a bump until you have some practice.

So, practice riding on them, see if you can even get a flat, tubulars are harder to flat in the sizes talked about so that may be more of a problem than you'd think ... 

Anyway, for changing a tubular, practice on a new one w/o glue to get how to mount & roll it on. 

Patching & sewing is a whole other art and needs practice to get a smooth repair, and, most riders never patch a sewup on the road, they just use the spare. Anyway, grab a tossed sewup and repair it over-n-over, mount & inflate to see what you get. With this practice anyone should be able to make the choice on ride quality and not worry about flatting as part of the decision.


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## pretender

If I were doing such a race, I would use:

clincher tire
tubes with Stan's inside them

and bring:

two spare tubes
patch kit
CO2 and minipump
tire boot


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## Thom H

I have all three systems. For racing nothing but FMBs for me. For banging around on the firetrails I have a set of old Tufos that have been mounted for going on three years. I must have done a super glue job as it is still holding perfect. They probably have 3 gallons of Stans in them now and no flats. Someday I hope they will die as they are becoming slicks one km at a time. (knock wood)
But if I were to build a new set of wheels up and only raced a little bit. I would probably go tubeless. I am a newbee with Stans rims, but at 40 psi what I run on casual rides I think I have about a 0% chance of a burp. I am a big boy so I don't go below 35 on my Stans even racing and no burps so far. Some guys are under 30psi on theirs, just not me boy. Tougher Tufos and Stans are to me about an even ride, so if you take the no burp factor factor out. I think a tube and a boot would save even a total messup on a Stans wheel, where a messed up tubie is trouble. However, don't think getting a tube in a Stans wheel is a cakewalk either.
I guess there are a couple camps there. Then the other option is a clincher. You can switch touring, to racing, to road in about 5 minutes. Tubies and Stans require a lot more work than that. If you are just banging around the magic carpet ride of a handmade sewup is lost anyhow so why bother? Never can have too many wheels. I took the route for costing out one set of Edge racing wheels I can buy 4 to 5 sets of clincher, Stan, or Reflex rim wheels. Then I am totally set to go on any condition surface Monster cross, road banging to Cross Nats. Now I need to get a bigger motor...


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## 88 rex

Thom H said:


> I guess there are a couple camps there. Then the other option is a clincher. You can switch touring, to racing, to road in about 5 minutes. Tubies and Stans require a lot more work than that.



Tubed tire change......5-10 minutes

Stan's ZTR rim tubeless tire change.........20 minutes (including clean-up). (compressor of course.......have done it with a floor pump, but why bother).

Tubular? ......over a day to do it right.

Yea, tubeless is more work, but it's no endurance tire change like a tubular.

And if you flat a tubeless.........5 minutes max to throw a tube in and be on your way at full speed again. How long to change a tubular, which is probably just as flat prone as tubeless. And you have to carry extra tires (plural) for endurance racing. 

I can't imagine being stuck in the middle of Kansas with a slashed tubular or two watching racers trickle by with tons of spare tubes in their packs that you can't use.


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## timallard

Huh? 

Tubulars don't flat easy to begin with, the newer ones have a kevlar belt to keep from getting cut easy, they ride way better than most anything ever made and that's why people use them, the ride.

Change a tubular to a spare, 2-3 minutes. Patch, resew & remount a tubular 7-10 minutes.

But then, I've done it a few times ... ymmv ...


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## PeanutButterBreath

You are not going to get a proper CX tire swap done in 2-3 minutes. You might get something mounted that will let you limp home at way higher than optimal pressure, but that negates the benefit of tubulars in the first place.

Road tires are a completely different story.


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## atpjunkie

*agreed that it will be less than optimal*



PeanutButterBreath said:


> You are not going to get a proper CX tire swap done in 2-3 minutes. You might get something mounted that will let you limp home at way higher than optimal pressure, but that negates the benefit of tubulars in the first place.
> 
> Road tires are a completely different story.


but a pack of Tub Tape and a spare tubular will allow you more than limping home in a gravel road race in the case of a flat. We're not talking wet and off camber at 30 psi


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## PeanutButterBreath

Oh, yeah. Tape. I guess that would do the trick.

I just hate scraping that stuff off. I might still take my foot off the gas anyway just knowing that the sooner I finish, the sooner I have to deal with one punctured tub and one taped tub.


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## timallard

PeanutButterBreath said:


> Oh, yeah. Tape. I guess that would do the trick.
> 
> I just hate scraping that stuff off. I might still take my foot off the gas anyway just knowing that the sooner I finish, the sooner I have to deal with one punctured tub and one taped tub.


Yeah, I don't use tape because of that, just quick-set and don't lean the bike over for a while; the old glue helps if you use the same brand in most cases so it's a pretty good bond to finish the race with, or at least I got away with that the one time I flatted in a race with tubs.


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## 88 rex

atpjunkie said:


> but a pack of Tub Tape and a spare tubular will allow you more than limping home in a gravel road race in the case of a flat. We're not talking wet and off camber at 30 psi



You're absolutely right about not being off camber and 30 psi, because I was thinking more like 40+ mph screaming down gravel/dirt roads with off camber turns. These are the speeds I've recorded in my race. Would you feel comfy with your tape at those speeds on these kinds of turns? 

And to Timallard, I never said tubulars were easy to flat, just that their ability to flat is on par with tubeless....IE no diffference b/w the two.


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## atpjunkie

*well I've run tub tape*



88 rex said:


> You're absolutely right about not being off camber and 30 psi, because I was thinking more like 40+ mph screaming down gravel/dirt roads with off camber turns. These are the speeds I've recorded in my race. Would you feel comfy with your tape at those speeds on these kinds of turns?
> 
> And to Timallard, I never said tubulars were easy to flat, just that their ability to flat is on par with tubeless....IE no diffference b/w the two.


on track bikes with no issue, but I'd probably back off the speed of 40 mph on a corner a tad. not much, but a tad. My guess is for dirt roading you would run a tub at around 40-70 psi which again would help.


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## 2silent

I rode the tubulars about 1k miles last year (the tufo) and had no flats or other issues. In fact, was very happy with them. 

I've since sold them and gone back to clinchers despite the performance drop (I had a chance to buy some wheels that were more flexible for racing on more of my bikes), 

I did ride about 45 psi.


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