# Venge vs Tarmac



## bernithebiker

At the Spesh centre today, i gleaned some excellent insight into this subject.

An employee who i know to be a very fast rider, had a 2011 tarmac pro. Although he liked the bike he was tempted by the Venge so he switched to that. 

After 4 months he ditched the Venge and got a Tarmac sworks. Why? He said that the Venge was more tiring to ride and less reactive. He was and is getting better results on the Tarmac, even though he said he could feel a slight aero advantage. He now has zipp 808s on the Tarmac which helps the aero side.

So just one example, but one who's opinion I respect.

This store however has sold alot more Venges than Tarmacs.........


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## Schlim

I haven't ridden a Venge, but I've heard they are stiffer and a little less nimble than the Tarmacs. I bought my Tarmac SL4 because I think of myself more as a climber than anything else. Specialized made the lower headset race smaller (1 3/8) to try and build a little more compliance/spring into the front of the bike while keeping the SL3's massive bottom bracket stiffness. I get a kick out of how the Tarmac surges forward under power and carves tightly into corners. I would like to try a Venge with 404s or 808s in a flat road race at some point. My guess is there are decent aero advantages to the wheels and frame that would help pull you in behind the pack.


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## AvantDale

The Venge is more less a specific tool than an all around bike. The SL4 is stiffer than the Venge. The Venge stiffness is supposed to be comparable to a S-Works SL2.


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## CuppiesCake

Schlim said:


> I haven't ridden a Venge, but I've heard they are stiffer and a little less nimble than the Tarmacs. I bought my Tarmac SL4 because I think of myself more as a climber than anything else. Specialized made the lower headset race smaller (1 3/8) to try and build a little more compliance/spring into the front of the bike while keeping the SL3's massive bottom bracket stiffness. I get a kick out of how the Tarmac surges forward under power and carves tightly into corners. I would like to try a Venge with 404s or 808s in a flat road race at some point. My guess is there are decent aero advantages to the wheels and frame that would help pull you in behind the pack.


The Venge is NOT stiffer, please do not spread misinformation. Specialized themselves made this very clear when it debuted.


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## Local Hero

How big is the difference in stiffness? 

Is there a difference between the Venge and the McLauren Venge? 

It seems that every year the bike s are 15% stiffer and 5% lighter. 15% stiffer means that rather than flexing 1mm, the chainstay only flexes .85mm under 500 watts?


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## roox

I find the stiffness between the two noticeable on rides over 60km, I also appreciate the aero effect of the venge more And more each time I ride it (lots of wind lately). On calm days on rides with lots of vertical, I still prefer the tarmac, lots of flat with headwinds, it's the venge...

Overall my favorite of the season is still the Roubaix sworks though.....


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## Schlim

CuppiesCake said:


> The Venge is NOT stiffer, please do not spread misinformation. Specialized themselves made this very clear when it debuted.


Thank you for that. The internetz are now free from erroneous comments. While the Tarmacs are torsionally stiffer than the Venges, many reviews call out an increased harshness to the Venge ride. http://bicycling.com/blogs/thisjustin/2011/03/23/the-specialized-venge/. 

But like I said, I haven't ridden one, so I don't know from personal experience. Regardless of what measurement Specialized employs, it's the real work that counts.


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## jsedlak

I love my Venge. Would probably never get a Tarmac over it.


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## JaPPster

i own sl4 sw, but i test rode venge pro with some roval al 45 wheels, all i can say this thing flies on the straights, also rockets away easier than tarmac, i didnt climb on it, cuz there was no hilly area around, so cant really compare it overall, but on the straights it eats tarmac hands down


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## thumper8888

Venge is stiffer torsionally than the vast majority of race bikes, but the SL3 and SL4 Tarmac are at the very top of the heap in that category, so it suffers by comparison to them...but not many other bikes. For most amateur racers in the U.S. I can't help but doubt there is a significant difference when measured in speed around 99 percent of the course out there.
Venge rides noticeably harder, but it's not heinous compared to some of the other aero bikes out there. A rocket on rollers and a flats. It's perhaps not a crit bike but plenty quick around curves.
I think many of the differences between venge and tarmac are "feel" difference and make little or no difference in speed, particularly when averaged over the various courses you will face in a season.
I will say that on two long downhills on my normal training loop, I have run five different bikes a LOT and four of them reached essentially identical terminal velocities --- right around 38 mph on hill 1 and 41 mph on hill 2. There is a great deal of difference between the design and materials of those bikes -- S-works E5 aluminum frame, Cervelo S1 aluminum (aero), Merckx AXM carbon (more like Tarmac in tube shape) and Ridley Noah carbon (aero).... which led me for a long time to say there isn't a whole lot in this talk about some frames being noticeably faster at the speeds we normally ride.... If you are not seeing a difference at 40, you sure as heck ain't gonna see it at 25 on a flat.
The Venge, though, is consistently 1.8 mph to 2.1 mph faster on those hills, using the same 46mm wheels as the others. Make of that what you will, but it would seem to translate to at least a few tenths if you're on the front pulling at 27 mph, or a few watts saved....
Can't speak to speed differences from a bit more torsional stiffness on the Tarmac on big hills, but the aero thing is real, at least for the time youre not buried in the pack.
I do know that if I could afford a second race bike I'd love to have an SL4 s-works to, uh, explore that question. 
They're both awesome ...basically, I think the Venge is a Ferrari or 911 and the SL4 is a hotted up Lotus Elise, only without the reliability issues.


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## jsedlak

thumper8888 said:


> They're both awesome ...basically, I think the Venge is a Ferrari and the SL4 is a hotted up Lotus Elise, only without the reliability issues.


I'm okay with this analogy.


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