# Destroyed my rear Reynold's Carbon Wheel--Help!



## Roubaix29 (Mar 12, 2009)

Hi,

Last weekend I did a double century to Santa Barbara (in 2 days).

After my 60th mile my buddy collided into my back wheel. A part of his bike somehow got caught in my spokes. Consequently, 7 spokes were destroyed, and about 4-5 other spokes are bent. So, really half my spokes are done :mad2:.

The LBS called Reynold's for me. They said that the only salvageable item on the bike is the hub, and they'll rebuild it for $750!!! Since, with that many lost spokes the rim is most likely bent.

INFO:
66mm Carbon Reynold's Strike--rear wheel (pretty much destroyed)--clincher
66mm Carbon Reynold's Strike--front wheel (great condition)--clincher
58 inch Roubaix, with Ultegra parts and Dura ace front and rear derailleurs
I'm 175 pounds, and 6' 1"

Two years ago I paid $1250 for the wheel set (yep, great deal). I really can't afford to pay the $750 or anything like that right now!

Please can you give me some advise.

Considering I keep my front wheel (the 66mm carbon) on, what rear wheel do you recommend: that will keep my wheel weight below 1,780 grams, and that will be stiff like carbon and under $500?

Will there be any balancing issues if I were to keep my 66mm on the front and put on a regular aluminum 15 or 20mm on the rear?

I would like to get something super light and stiff, another carbon wheel with aluminum breaking surface if possible. However I'm only able to pay $500 max for a new wheel.

Can you recommend anything?
What about going used on Ebay?

Thanks,

Jay


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## locustfist (Feb 21, 2009)

Are spokes not replaceable on the wheel? Just from the photo it looks like all you need to do is put some new spokes on that puppy and true it up. Does the rim appear damaged? 

I've had my spokes blown up by another rider and I just put some new ones in and trued it...all good. Not a carbon rim mind you.

To answer your other question: having an aero rear wheel is far less important than an aero front wheel as it is essentially dirty air at the point and the advantage is negligible for the average rider


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## akamp (Jan 14, 2009)

I don't think you can bend the carbon do as long as there are no cracks in the rim I would rebuild the wheel.


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## Roubaix29 (Mar 12, 2009)

Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure, but I think it might be different with Carbon. I was told that after 2 or more spokes break, it's necessary to rebuild the wheel.

Also, they said that it would have bent the rim with that much pressure. Maybe I'll take it somewhere else to have another look.
Wow, I didn't know that, so having a rear aero wheel doesn't even matter, if you have one on the front!--good to know.

Thanks.


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## Roubaix29 (Mar 12, 2009)

No, I didn't see any cracks on the rim. 
How much do you think it would cost to rebuild the wheel?
(it has regular steel spokes)


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## AlanE (Jan 22, 2002)

It is true that with that many broken spokes, you will probably need to have the wheel rebuilt. But that just means replacing all of the spokes so that the wheel is properly dished and tensioned. If they are standard spokes then any good LBS mechanic should be able to do the job for you.

Out of curiosity - are you saying you completed the 200 mile ride after all that damage at 60 miles?

Also, it's not a double century if you took 2 days to do it. 

Finally, if your "buddy" caused the damage, he should cover all costs.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Roubaix29 said:


> No, I didn't see any cracks on the rim.
> How much do you think it would cost to rebuild the wheel?
> (it has regular steel spokes)


If there's no cracks, it should be rebuildable. Price depends a lot, on the spokes and the builder, but 300 bucks should get you a good-as-new wheel with very nice spokes from a reputable builder.


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## Roubaix29 (Mar 12, 2009)

There aren't any cracks, however, my valve got sucked inside or broke off. It took out a little bit of the carbon around where the valve goes--is that a problem?

Also, a few of the broken parts of the spokes are rattling around inside the wheel, if I can't get them out, then, is that a huge problem?

Thanks.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Roubaix29 said:


> There aren't any cracks, however, my valve got sucked inside or broke off. It took out a little bit of the carbon around where the valve goes--is that a problem?


What's "a little bit"? Got a picture?



Roubaix29 said:


> Also, a few of the broken parts of the spokes are rattling around inside the wheel, if I can't get them out, then, is that a huge problem?


Not really, but it's going to be annoying. There's these telescoping wands that have a little magnet at the tip you could use to catch them, or just use some strong magnet which you move along the sides of the rim to guide the parts to the valve hole. Hopefully the parts you are talking about are steel, not aluminum...


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## Roubaix29 (Mar 12, 2009)

Ok cool. "A little bit"--a few millimeters of carbon broke off, enough to create a semi rough edge on one side of the valve hole (I don't have a picture, but I can take one later).


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## akamp (Jan 14, 2009)

Cut the rest of the spokes out and lay the rim on a flat table. If it is flat I think you are good to go. I would at least try it depending on the the valve hole looked like. It it really is a few mm that is quite a bit of material.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

ok...all you guys that are offering up advice that haven't ever dealt w/ carbon rims need to be quiet. if spokes get broken by something going into the wheel while it's spinning thus breaking the spokes...it's very likely the stress on the rim went wayyyyy over what it's rated to withstand from normal static spoke tension. it is therefore very likely that the rim is damaged and nipples would pull through when trying to rebuild it. the rim would definitely need to be checked out by Reynolds before trying to rebuild it. i doubt that it would be sound enough to re-use. i do find it odd that Reynolds said the rim might be 'bent'...i was not aware that is is possible for this to happen. i actually still kind of doubt that it's possible. carbon can flex, and then it will return to it's original shape. if it bends past it's limit, it breaks.


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## redmr2_man (Dec 22, 2009)

+1 on making your buddy pay since he caused it.

I wouldn't tell him to fork over the 750 for a new wheel, but splitting the cost sounds fair to me.


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## Roubaix29 (Mar 12, 2009)

CXWRENCH: So is it totaled? 

FYI It was the Local Bike Shop that mentioned the bending of the rim. There sure is a lot of rattling inside of the rim (from the ends of the broken spokes/nipples).

By the way, buddy is not paying for it!--he didn't offer, and I wasn't going to make him, wish he'd pay for half.

After it happened, my wheel was stuck against the side of my frame, since I lost most my spokes on one side I guess it pulled the wheel over to hug my frame.

Here's another picture


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

cxwrench said:


> it is therefore very likely that the rim is damaged and nipples would pull through when trying to rebuild it.


Well, I would say that's possible, but it doesn't have to be the case. You know, pulling the nipple straight through those holes _should_ require more force than the spokes can withstand. In any case, that's easy enough to check. I still say it's worth a try. The worst thing that can happen is that, after the wheel has been rebuilt, the OP gets a spoke pulled out of the hole when going over a bump. That's just like breaking a spoke, so it's not particularly dangerous. Of course, if that happens, he'd be out of his money for rebuilding the wheel, so it is a judgment call. You are absolutely right that it's hard to diagnose this remotely, but a competent wheelbuilder should be able to take a look and tell you more. If indeed nipples have been pulled through, there would be telltale damage to the spoke holes.



cxwrench said:


> i actually still kind of doubt that it's possible. carbon can flex, and then it will return to it's original shape. if it bends past it's limit, it breaks.


That's correct. If indeed the rim is "bent", that means its broken, end of story. If the rim is plane and round when you lay it on a table, then it's probably fine.


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## akamp (Jan 14, 2009)

cxwrench said:


> ok...all you guys that are offering up advice that haven't ever dealt w/ carbon rims need to be quiet. if spokes get broken by something going into the wheel while it's spinning thus breaking the spokes...it's very likely the stress on the rim went wayyyyy over what it's rated to withstand from normal static spoke tension. it is therefore very likely that the rim is damaged and nipples would pull through when trying to rebuild it. the rim would definitely need to be checked out by Reynolds before trying to rebuild it. i doubt that it would be sound enough to re-use. i do find it odd that Reynolds said the rim might be 'bent'...i was not aware that is is possible for this to happen. i actually still kind of doubt that it's possible. carbon can flex, and then it will return to it's original shape. if it bends past it's limit, it breaks.


So if it was stressed over what it was rated for wouldn't the be stress fractures around the nipples? If there are no fractures I would think it hasn't hit it's limit and is therefor good to ride. Same thing with the rim being "bent". If there are no cracks the rim didn't hit its bending limits. I say build it up, stress the heck out of the spokes and if they don't pull through ride it. Replace if they do.


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## PaxRomana (Jan 16, 2012)

Don't deal with Reynolds unless you have to. They make a good product but the company are muppets.

I've owned a few pairs of Reynolds wheels in my time. Those 66s are strong rims. 

Now, is Reynolds offering you a completely new rim plus rebuilding for $750. That's not TOO bad with the new rim. However, I would take this to a competent wheelbuilder and let him/her look at this closely to see if there are any cracks in the rim. If not, I would have them rebuild the rim with new spokes. Taking out a few spokes and re-building the wheel should cost you less than a hundred bucks.


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

You may not like my answer.

I have a rule:
"If you can't afford to trash it on Sunday and replace it on Monday, then it's too expensive."

I'd recommend building yourself a wheel with a standard hub, aluminum rim, and commonly available spokes. The performance advantages of high end wheels versus their purchase price and repair costs just don't make sense for the average college student or working Joe or Jane.

Your local bike shop could build a high quality wheel using standard components for 1/3 the price of your Reynolds repair, and likely turn it around is less time than it takes to repair your Reynolds wheel. Should the same catastrophe strike a standard wheel, your could replace the rim and all the spokes for 20% of the cost of your Reynolds wheel repair, and they're more likely to have the parts in stock, for even quicker response.


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## akamp (Jan 14, 2009)

cxwrench said:


> ok...all you guys that are offering up advice that haven't ever dealt w/ carbon rims need to be quiet. if spokes get broken by something going into the wheel while it's spinning thus breaking the spokes...it's very likely the stress on the rim went wayyyyy over what it's rated to withstand from normal static spoke tension. it is therefore very likely that the rim is damaged and nipples would pull through when trying to rebuild it. the rim would definitely need to be checked out by Reynolds before trying to rebuild it. i doubt that it would be sound enough to re-use. i do find it odd that Reynolds said the rim might be 'bent'...i was not aware that is is possible for this to happen. i actually still kind of doubt that it's possible. carbon can flex, and then it will return to it's original shape. if it bends past it's limit, it breaks.


So if it was stressed over what it was rated for wouldn't the be stress fractures around the nipples? If there are no fractures I would think it hasn't hit it's limit and is therefor good to ride. Same thing with the rim being "bent". If there are no cracks the rim didn't hit its bending limits. I say build it up, stress the heck out of the spokes and if they don't pull through ride it. Replace if they do.


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## akamp (Jan 14, 2009)

Sorry for the double post. Darn tapatalk


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## forge55b (Jan 30, 2011)

As much as I want to wish that those wheels are perfectly fine to ride, I'd be super wary of it, even if I had someone check them out. I've "bent" a carbon rim that popped a spoke mid sprint but after taking out all of the spokes to rebuild it, it ended up being ok. Having half my spokes go out would make me not trust the rim, unless you were going like 5mph and had almost no load on the wheel when your "buddy" (wouldn't be my buddy anymore) crashed into you.


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## Roubaix29 (Mar 12, 2009)

Ha ha, actually I was going 5 mph, we were getting ready to stop, and we were both looking for the pit stop, and I was standing up, so there wasn't much load. What crash of metal when he hit me. It was loud, and my tube popped too. My inner-tube somehow got pulled around breaking my valve extender.

I'm going to have a look to see if any of the nipples got pulled through, I think I remember seeing one that might have pulled through (the hole looked bigger than the others).

Wow, there's been quiet a mix of responses. There sure is some clear uncertainty whether this wheel will be rideable again. 

If it's not, is there any value in what's left?
The metal?
The hub?


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Roubaix29 said:


> Wow, there's been quiet a mix of responses. There sure is some clear uncertainty whether this wheel will be rideable again.


 Yes, well, without actually seeing the wheel, that's what you'll get from people. If indeed one of the spokes was pulled through, then the rim is dead meat, obviously.



Roubaix29 said:


> If it's not, is there any value in what's left?
> The metal?
> The hub?


The hub should be fine. The good spokes, too, but it's doubtful they'll be of much use to you. Unless you get the exact same wheel, and happen to need a replacement when you break a spoke (you know, the normal way... ).


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## DrD (Feb 5, 2000)

$750 sounds like a lot based on their website - they say they offer crash replacement - here's the excerpt:


> *Do you offer a crash replacement?*
> 
> Accidents happen and this is why we have a crash replacement policy. If Reynolds product has been damaged in a crash or mishap you may return it to us for a discount towards repair or replacement. These special discounts are the only discounts available and are also offered to the retail customer.
> 
> ...


Any chance the LBS is marking things up a bit? sounds like you could deal directly with Reynolds (I am guessing ship them the hub, and they rebuild it)

Reynolds Cycling

based on their website, it sounds like the wheel uses standard straight-pull spokes - you should be able to rebuild it, but it's hard to say if it was damaged - that's a bunch of broken spokes... if you completely unlace the wheel, does the rim sit flat and true? If it does, it might be ok - as mentioned above, carbon fiber doesn't bend before breaking like aluminum - if you stress it too much, it will crack.

Also - your "buddy" who killed the wheel should at least cough up a portion of the cost to repair/replace the wheel... not much of a friend of they don't.


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## sdeeer (Aug 12, 2008)

DrD said:


> $750 sounds like a lot based on their website - they say they offer crash replacement - here's the excerpt:
> 
> Any chance the LBS is marking things up a bit? sounds like you could deal directly with Reynolds (I am guessing ship them the hub, and they rebuild it)
> 
> ...


$450: Attack, Assualt and Strike

I was about to post that too. I remembered reading $400 when I got mine. and got a bit scared when you said 750 to replace.


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## Roubaix29 (Mar 12, 2009)

sdeeer said:


> $450: Attack, Assualt and Strike
> 
> I was about to post that too. I remembered reading $400 when I got mine. and got a bit scared when you said 750 to replace.


Did you pay the $300 extra when you bought your wheels to get the "crash replacement" deal?


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## sadisticnoob (Dec 6, 2009)

the wheel looks ok here no cracks on the rim. but i think its best to get a competent wheelbuilder to examine whether the wheel can be rebuild


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## erik1245 (Jan 6, 2012)

If the rim is no longer usable.... You know what to do. http://forums.roadbikereview.com/ge...-every-well-dressed-cyclist-needs-279480.html


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

Lots of good points above. However, FWIW, if it were my wheel, I'd give it good visual examination and if it looked OK, I'd build it up with new spokes. If it went together normally, the spokes tensioned up normally and evenly with the rim true, I'd call it good. If there is damage to the rim, I expect it would show up as difficulty tensioning the spokes and truing the rim, or as a large variation in spoke tension with a trued rim. But that's only what I would do. Proceed at your own risk.


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## DrD (Feb 5, 2000)

Roubaix29 said:


> Did you pay the $300 extra when you bought your wheels to get the "crash replacement" deal?


The reynolds assurance plan (like insurance for your wheels, I guess) is the $250 policy where you pay up front to get the wheels replaced if you kill one - it's only two years long. They even say in the RAP policy notes:




> *Cost: *
> 
> 
>  RAP Program price is $250 for 2 years coverage; repair or replace at sole discretion of Reynolds Cycling, L.L.C.
> ...





So it should only cost $450 to get the wheel reworked by Reynolds (plus shipping, I assume)


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## Unknown Arch (Aug 17, 2011)

redmr2_man said:


> +1 on making your buddy pay since he caused it.
> 
> I wouldn't tell him to fork over the 750 for a new wheel, but splitting the cost sounds fair to me.


This is the most sound advice in the thread. Especially if your buddy admitted it was partially his fault for running into you, you should talk to him about splitting the replacement if he wasn't good enough to offer it himself.


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## B2 (Mar 12, 2002)

Roubaix29 said:


> I'm going to have a look to see if any of the nipples got pulled through, I think I remember seeing one that might have pulled through (the hole looked bigger than the others).



Seems to me that this ^^^ is the first thing you would want to look at before you even consider simply replacing the broken spokes. I don't like the sounds of carbon missing at the valve hole, but that one might not be the end of the world depending on.....


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

"If you can't afford to trash it on Sunday and replace it on Monday, then it's too expensive."


Most people do not want to hear this.

That said, I have to say that that wheel set would be great for a Cat 2, but I doubt that even a Cat2 would use them in a non-race situation, if he paid for them himself.



.
.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

looigi said:


> Lots of good points above. However, FWIW, if it were my wheel, I'd give it good visual examination and if it looked OK, I'd build it up with new spokes. If it went together normally, the spokes tensioned up normally and evenly with the rim true, I'd call it good. If there is damage to the rim, I expect it would show up as difficulty tensioning the spokes and truing the rim, or as a large variation in spoke tension with a trued rim. But that's only what I would do. Proceed at your own risk.


this is pretty sound advice, IF you didn't have any nipples pull through the rim, obviously. if all the spokes broke and none actually pulled out, you could try it, and everything looigi says is what will happen.


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

You also need to factor in the cost of either 1. replacing your so-called friend, or 2. not replacing him and continuing to ride with him.


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## cxwrench (Nov 9, 2004)

qatarbhoy said:


> You also need to factor in the cost of either 1. replacing your so-called friend, or 2. not replacing him and continuing to ride with him.


very true! unless the OP turned right in front of his 'friend' and actually is at fault, i'd still be pissed at him for wrecking my wheel and not offering to at least pay for part of it.


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## Wborgers (Oct 6, 2008)

Sorry for your loss but gotta ask- why would you use these for a 200 mile ride- does the aero aspect offset the discomfort of a ride that distance on a stiff set of wheels? Just be careful when /if you reuse this wheel after rebuild- exploding rear wheels at speed suck- good luck!


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## CleavesF (Dec 31, 2007)

Buy the Ebay Chinese knock off carbon wheels. It's even cheaper than that 750... and it's a generic ripoff which will likely perform the same. 

Knock off forever!


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## velocanman (Jul 15, 2011)

I have a pair of Reynolds Attack 2008 wheels. I weas involved ina crash where someone took me down from behind. I had to true up the wheel band two weeks later two spokes broke.

I ordered some DT Swiss spokes, replaced the broken ones, and trued up the wheel.

That was 3 years ago and I am still riding those wheels. And I am a big guy.

If you ask a shop or the manufacturer they are obligated to protect your safety. 

I would replace those wheels and get back to riding. 

If you aren't confident in your assessment of any cracks or damage, ask an experienced wrench or roadie to check them over. Like having someone else check you tire for a flat, they might see something you missed.

They couldn't build bikes and airplanes out of carbon fiber if it was as brittle and fragile as you seem to be led to believe.


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## Scott in MD (Jun 24, 2008)

Reynolds, who designed the wheel, recommended discarding the run. You mention pieces of the rim chipped off. And you broke spikes badly enough that they are rattling around in the wheel. 

Hmmmmmm.......

I would never in million years re-use that rim. And i wouldn't sell it either. You can, however , saw it into thirds and make a *****in' set of coat hangers.


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

No-one's mentioned it yet, but if you're in the market for new wheels, I hear SRAM 80s are pretty sweet.


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## erik1245 (Jan 6, 2012)

qatarbhoy said:


> No-one's mentioned it yet, but if you're in the market for new wheels, I hear SRAM 80s are pretty sweet.


Doesn't OP need clip-on aerobars too, if he wants to go with S80s?


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

Scott in MD said:


> Reynolds, who designed the wheel, recommended discarding the run. You mention pieces of the rim chipped off. And you broke spikes badly enough that they are rattling around in the wheel.
> 
> Hmmmmmm.......
> 
> I would never in million years re-use that rim. And i wouldn't sell it either. You can, however , saw it into thirds and make a *****in' set of coat hangers.


An time that you beak a spoke on Reyolns carbon wheels the internal nipple from the broken spoke rattles around.


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

erik1245 said:


> Doesn't OP need clip-on aerobars too, if he wants to go with S80s?


And a bell... But all in good time, young padawan.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Roubaix29 ,
You might want to contact www.wheelbuilder.com for an expert opinion and quote. They have a good reputation and are based in So Calif (El Monte).

They are also an authorized Reynolds dealer, among other brands.


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## Roubaix29 (Mar 12, 2009)

Okay, so there's been a lot of talk about the spokes nipples pulling through, "if a spoke nipple pulls through then the wheel is done."

What about if the valve hole looks all torn up like?
Check out the picture, the valve got ripped out, or sucked inside the rim--not sure where it is.

If this wheels is toast, can anyone recommend me a good rear wheel to use with my 66mm strike carbon wheel, or a new set of wheels that are super light--under $1200 (for the pair)???


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/REYNOLDS-ST...Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a1ce6dc91


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## Roubaix29 (Mar 12, 2009)

thnx so much everyone!


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## cmg (Oct 27, 2004)

spoke hole looks fine. When you place a new tire put black tape in a cross pattern over the valve keeps it from rattling around.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

I'd rebuild it but never again use it in a century or double. Racing only. Centuries are too dangerous.


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## Roubaix29 (Mar 12, 2009)

So I finally cut all the spokes off, removed the hub, and after about an hour with a pair of tweezers I got the 3 loose spokes/nipple ends out of the rim. There are no cracks in the rim, and none of the nipples pulled through!
So the wheel should be good to rebuild!

Does anyone know approx how much it should cost to rebuild the wheel?
I'll be using steel spokes, nothing special.

thanks.


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

Local Hero said:


> I'd rebuild it but never again use it in a century or double. Racing only. Centuries are too dangerous.


How does this possibly make sense?


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## Swerny (Mar 4, 2008)

AlanE said:


> Out of curiosity - are you saying you completed the 200 mile ride after all that damage at 60 miles?
> 
> Also, it's not a double century if you took 2 days to do it.
> 
> Finally, if your "buddy" caused the damage, he should cover all costs.


+ 1

It sounds like the OP was on mile 60 of a 200 mile ride.....to be done over 2 days. 

Agreed his "friend" should be paying for it. 



Scott in MD said:


> Reynolds, who designed the wheel, recommended discarding the run. You mention pieces of the rim chipped off. And you broke spikes badly enough that they are rattling around in the wheel.
> 
> Hmmmmmm.......
> 
> I would never in million years re-use that rim. And i wouldn't sell it either. You can, however , saw it into thirds and make a *****in' set of coat hangers.


I have to agree. 

Sell the front wheel and the rear hub and use those funds towards a new set of wheels. 



Roubaix29 said:


> If this wheels is toast, can anyone recommend me a good rear wheel to use with my 66mm strike carbon wheel, or a new set of wheels that are super light--under $1200 (for the pair)???


Shimano RS80 C50:
http://www.merlincycles.com/bike-sh...heels/shimano-rs80-c50-wheelset-clincher.html

Dura Ace 7900 C50:
http://www.merlincycles.com/bike-sh...mano-dura-ace-7900-c50-clincher-wheelset.html



Local Hero said:


> I'd rebuild it but never again use it in a century or double. Racing only. Centuries are too dangerous.





ewitz said:


> How does this possibly make sense?


This is called sarcasm, 

:thumbsup:


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