# Bad commuting week and advice



## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

This is the worst commuting week I've had in a long time. The biggest positive is only that I haven't eaten any asphalt (yet -- I guess there is still the ride home).

Monday morning, I got a flat about a block from work. No big deal, I thought. I had a tube and a patch kit, but the tire had two big chunks of glass in it. I wasn't sure the tire was still good because of the size of one of the places the glass went in. It almost went all the way through, it seemed like.

So I got a ride home from work because I thought the tire might need to be replaced. The next morning (Tuesday), I went to the LBS when they opened. The mechanic thought the tire could still be used, so I had him put a new tube in. I went home, got on my bike, got halfway to work, and then heard the same tire hissing. Fortunately, this was less than a mile from the LBS, so I walked back over there. I got a new tire and another tube (they only charged me for one tube and the tire that day) and continued on to work.

That was all definitely my fault. I obviously rode through some glass without realizing it, and I also could have told the mechanic to just put on a new tire in the first place.

Then, yesterday (Thursday), I was riding home. As a rolled up to a red light that is about 3-4 miles from my house, it turned green. As I started to pedal, I heard something start banging around the back wheel. A spoke had popped loose! I was in the middle of the intersection, so I had to pedal to the other side with the spoke rattling and the wheel wobbling. I called my wife to pick me up (with the triplets and our older daughter in tow ) and rode my old bike to work today (Friday).

I'm very upset about the spoke. The bike, a Cannondale R600, was only bought on July 3rd. I was pretty much a noob when I bought it. I had done a lot of research but I hadn't bought a bike in 17 years. Am I too big for those wheels (Gipiemme T3 and I'm 180lbs plus another 15-20lbs when commuting)? Is it a fluke, or is the quality bad, or do I expect that on those wheels with my size, or what?

Finally, what is reasonable for me to ask of the LBS? I definitely don't abuse this bike. I ride the same route every day, and this is on a road that has group rides almost every day. I know the route very well (I've been riding it for 3-4 years) and really think I do well avoiding the harsher sections of the road.


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## cmgauch (Oct 11, 2002)

*Shake it off, Nate*

It's just the bike gods frowning on you.

IMHO:
- You’re not too heavy for those wheels, that spoke was probably a bit too tight.
- If you bought the bike at the LBS you speak of I’d imagine they’ll want to take care of that spoke for you & probably give the wheel a once-over to check for other tight spokes. I’d also imagine that when you pick up the bike you’ll do so with a six pack in your hand for the shop guys.

- Chris





nate said:


> This is the worst commuting week I've had in a long time...I'm very upset about the spoke. The bike, a Cannondale R600, was only bought on July 3rd...Am I too big for those wheels (Gipiemme T3 and I'm 180lbs plus another 15-20lbs when commuting)?...Finally, what is reasonable for me to ask of the LBS? I definitely don't abuse this bike. I ride the same route every day, and this is on a road that has group rides almost every day. I know the route very well (I've been riding it for 3-4 years) and really think I do well avoiding the harsher sections of the road.


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## slowrider (Mar 12, 2004)

Trust me. Put the toughest kevlar tires you can find on the bike that you are going to use for commuting. Flats are going to happen, but if you know how to change them, then you are talking about a 10 to 15 minutes delay, tops. Go to your LBS, and watch how they change a tire. I did, and it works. The roads where I commute are chopping up my tires. I'm cheap, so I have been using the cheapest kevlar tires (big mistake). I was using 2 bikes until I destroyed my rear wheel. I started out with nashbar kevlar (700x25) brand. They sucked. I switched to Irc (700x25) (not much better). Now I'm using one of each brand since the road crap destroyed 1 of each brand. That being said, I wish I would have brought those Specialized tires for commuting this year. If you just brought the bike, then they should fix or replace your wheel if they want your future business. 



nate said:


> This is the worst commuting week I've had in a long time. The biggest positive is only that I haven't eaten any asphalt (yet -- I guess there is still the ride home).
> 
> Monday morning, I got a flat about a block from work. No big deal, I thought. I had a tube and a patch kit, but the tire had two big chunks of glass in it. I wasn't sure the tire was still good because of the size of one of the places the glass went in. It almost went all the way through, it seemed like.
> 
> ...


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

*specialized armadillos...*

I have been using the specialized armadillo road tires for over a year. They have a kevlar layer. no flats for a whole year, even though I like to keep the tire pressure up high: 120-125psi. The only flat I had was recently, when tube at tire valve wore against valve hole in rim from a whole year of light-moderate riding. I ride a couple miles to work everyday, and get at least one long ride per week usually. Yes, the armadillos are not as lively and responsive as a top-grade road tire - duh. But I have boldly cycled around the city with all kinds of glass, metal, and junk on the road.

I got a newer bike, and wanted to put the same tires on it. LBS was out of stock, but they had Bontrager Hard Case. I have not put a lot of miles on these Bont Hard Case yet but I think they are a little lighter and more like a regular road tire.


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## jrm (Dec 23, 2001)

*it can only get better..right?*



nate said:


> This is the worst commuting week I've had in a long time. The biggest positive is only that I haven't eaten any asphalt (yet -- I guess there is still the ride home).
> 
> Monday morning, I got a flat about a block from work. No big deal, I thought. I had a tube and a patch kit, but the tire had two big chunks of glass in it. I wasn't sure the tire was still good because of the size of one of the places the glass went in. It almost went all the way through, it seemed like.
> 
> ...



on the tire, i have had glass go through the casing of a tire too. What i did was patch the tire on the inside after making sure that all the glass is out of the casing. 

The wheel issue sounds like a lack of retensioning the wheels after you put some miles on um. In most cases retensioning is critical to the life of the wheelset. 

If your using regular single pivot road brakes you should be able to fit a 27 or 28c without a hitch. I've foudn the 28c panaracer T-serv for messengers a great tire. These are real strong and sub 300gr each. 

ride on....


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## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

I dropped the bike off yesterday for the spoke, and the guy said to come back in 1/2 hour. I got back and it turned out that they didn't have the correct length spoke and they would get one from their other store today. I just called and they said it won't be done today but it is going to be done by Friday. I sincerely hope the guy was just being overly cautious and that they'll have it ready tomorrow. A week without my bike because of a broken spoke would be excessive.

The only plus is that I've gotten to ride my old bike after ignoring it for the six weeks I've had the new one.


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## moving up (Feb 18, 2003)

*Consider a downgrade*



nate said:


> This is the worst commuting week I've had in a long time. The biggest positive is only that I haven't eaten any asphalt (yet -- I guess there is still the ride home).
> 
> 
> I ride 9.5 mi each way to work. Rather than beating up my road bike, a Trek 5200, which I did for awhile, I bought the entry level Trek mountain bike for $450 and put on Specialized Armadillo tires to ride to work.
> ...


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## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

I'd rather put up with a flat every once in a while than do that. Hopefully, the spoke was just a fluke. Commuting is the only chance I get to ride my road bike. Having four kids (three of them four years old) means I have to be willing to put up with nuisances like flat tires in exchange for riding my bike more often. It's rare that I get a chance to ride other than my commute.

Besides, I have my old bike if I want to commute on something a little more practical and leave the new one for my occassional weekend ride.


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## CFBlue (Jun 28, 1999)

Nate,

Most likely, the piece of glass that went through your tire caused what I call a "nibbler", otherwise known as the "invisible thorn". In short the hole in the tire opens and closes every time it rotates, and will wear through the tube. Replacing the tire is the most surefire way to fix this, so with that done, you're fine. It is possible to extend the life of the tube within one of these tires, but I haven't found any other permanent solution.

I have been running Serfas Seca tires with FPS. They have what amounts to a "Mr Tuffy" built into the tire itself. I have been running these tires all year, and haven't had a single flat in almost 1,000 miles. I am confident that these tires will last for quite a long time, and at >$20us, they're a great value. 

It seems to me that the broken spoke was a result of it being too loose, not too tight. I had this same problem when I bought my bike. I was breaking spokes about every 50 miles, or so. The bike shop would replace each broken spoke individually, but I had to rebuild the wheel with 14G spokes to finally solve the problem. I did some research into this, and found out that on a bicycle wheel, go through cycles of increasing and releasing tension, so each spoke will actually stretch, then release, a very small amount as the wheel rotates. What this means is a loose spoke will give more than a tight spoke will, and this causes the steel to become brittle, and eventually break. There's a lot of background info involved with this, and I would be making a long story even longer by trying to explain it. The term used in blacksmithing to explain this is "work hardening". I assume the spoke broke at the hub, and this would be the exact reason. Your bike shop should properly tension the wheel when they replace the hub, but if this problem continues, then I would recommend having the wheel rebuilt by an experienced wheel builder.

Good luck!


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## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

Ok, I just need to vent now because the bike is still not fixed. I dropped it off eight days ago and they still don't have the spoke. If anyone even went to get the spoke at all, they got the wrong size. I was told it would be ready the Friday after I dropped it off. On Saturday, when they still didn't have the spoke, I was told that it would be ready no matter what on Monday (today). They said they would take a spoke off another bike if they had to.

Today, they still hadn't done anything and still hadn't gotten the spoke from the other store. In a wonderful gesture of too little too late, the guy I was talking to today while I was there said that they won't charge me for truing the wheel.  For the amount of time I've wasted calling them and going to the store, they should be paying me.

They also said it will be ready for sure tomorrow and that someone would physically go get the correct size spoke at their other store, but I don't really have my hopes up. I should have just taken my bike and gone to another bike shop tonight, and if it is not done tomorrow then I will probably do that. I understand the other shop may not have the correct spoke in stock, either, but I feel like this one hasn't even done anything to get the spoke. When I was talking to them tonight, they didn't even seem sure if their other store has the correct spoke.

If I could return the bike, I would, because this store has really let me down. I spent $900 on a new bike, $200 on pedals and shoes, and another $200+ on my old bike in the months of June and July, and now I feel like I'm going to think about this awful customer service every time I see my bike.


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## pinerider (Aug 12, 2004)

Nate, I would write or call Cannondale with your tale of woe, hopefully they'll get on the case of the LBS for unacceptable customer service response. I took my rear wheel of my 8 year old Norco MTB to my LBS for a truing Saturday morning, they noticed a broken spoke and lack of grease in the bearings, I picked it up at 3:00, total charge $25. And I've never even bought a new bike from these guys. 
If you haven't spoken to the manager/owner at the LBS, call them tomorrow, let them know their service has been crap and you are taking your complaint to Cannondale and your future business somewhere else.


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## nate (Jun 20, 2004)

Well, although I was pissed last night, I felt a lot less strongly about it when I woke up this morning. The bike, ready today, will be four days after the promised date (although for a fairly quick repair). As someone who spent four years as a retail manager in a very customer service oriented company, I know how something can fall through the cracks occassionally, even at the best shops, and I'm not going to become a raving lunatic about it. If I simply offer some rational constructive criticism, I think it will benefit me and the shop more than getting confrontational.

Also, both the people I was dealing with have apologised, and when I was there last night the guy not only apologised but also accepted blame. I've gotten apologies at retail stores before, but I think that was the only time I've actually heard someone say, "I'm sorry, it was completely my fault."


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## pinerider (Aug 12, 2004)

nate said:


> "I'm sorry, it was completely my fault."


Your answer," Yes it was your fault, what are you going to do about it???"
Should result in some free swag, water bottle, at least something for your troubles.


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## CFBlue (Jun 28, 1999)

*Glad to hear it worked out, or close to it*



nate said:


> Also, both the people I was dealing with have apologised, and when I was there last night the guy not only apologised but also accepted blame. I've gotten apologies at retail stores before, but I think that was the only time I've actually heard someone say, "I'm sorry, it was completely my fault."


It sounds like everything came out OK, or close to it. I know that waiting 4 days longer than you were promised really sucks, but the apologies do count for quite a bit. I know you aren't soliticing my advice at this point, but I would let the shop manager/owner know that they came very close to losing your business, and main reason you are still considering coming to his shop is because of his employee's honesty. They can't fix a problem they don't know exists, but if they don't fix one they do know about is even worse.


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## tomacropod (Jul 23, 2004)

pinerider said:


> Your answer," Yes it was your fault, what are you going to do about it???"
> Should result in some free swag, water bottle, at least something for your troubles.


my good long-term relationship with my LBS would not exist if I capitalised on occasional stuff-ups with this sort of opportunism. I worked in retail for some years, so I know that yes, it's important to give good, prompt service and stand by your word. I also know that sometimes things come up which mean you can't be as prompt as you would like, no matter whose fault it is. I have also learnt that humility is one of your best options as a retailer, accepting blame as opposed to pointing blame. If I had some sort of a stuff-up re: a spoke or whatever which was out of my control, I would be apologetic, and do what I could to rectify the situation, but I wouldn't make excuses. Sounds like this guy has bitten his tongue to try and keep the customer happy despite the screw-around, and he should be given another chance.

- Joel


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## CFBlue (Jun 28, 1999)

nate said:


> This is the worst commuting week I've had in a long time. The biggest positive is only that I haven't eaten any asphalt (yet -- I guess there is still the ride home).
> 
> Monday morning, I got a flat about a block from work. No big deal, I thought. I had a tube and a patch kit, but the tire had two big chunks of glass in it. I wasn't sure the tire was still good because of the size of one of the places the glass went in. It almost went all the way through, it seemed like.
> 
> ...


My girls R1000 has those wheels, they were a mis ship so I got the bike for a deal. It is brand new and those wheels I think are a little on the piece of **** side of things. While checking her spokes I found one TOTALLY loose, felt like it was going to fall out. Shoulda paid extra for te K's.

Kyle


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## jumpstumper (Aug 17, 2004)

*Keep on Truckin' Nate!*

I too flatted quite frequently until I switched to the Armadillo tires. I do about 30 miles a day commuting on a 2002 Specialized Sequoya Expert and would seem to break a spoke at least every 6 weeks or so. Dude at the Bicycle Outfitter in Los Altos told me that the Armadillo tires were bad for the rims/spokes! Whatever, I'm still going to use them - but has anyone else ever heard this? I switched to a Mavic Open Pro wheelset, after all my spoke problems with the Rolf Design ALX-300 wheels. So far so good!

Anyway, Nate, eventually things work out - just takes some time and money. Hehe.


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