# My first minutes with Zwift (very first impressions and a few questions embedded)



## wgscott (Jul 14, 2013)

In the future, I think I will try to digest breakfast before playing with the toy.

I have a Kurt Kinetic trainer and a bluetooth Wahoo SC (speed/cadence) sensor. I also have a TV and several computers. Plus it is winter here, which means it gets cold and rainy here (by wimpy California standards). The 12 year old is a video game addict packing on the pounds, and I should shed a few myself, so ... let's try Zwift for free for 14 days. 

Here is how it went:

(1) After about an hour of reading, I discovered my 3 year old Wahoo SC no good. I need a newer version that also does ANT+. I think it is a better bluetooth protocol or something. Anyway, I need a new Wahoo SC. $60. (Amazon).

(2) I need a dongle for the computer. The best deal I found was a Suunto Movestick Mini ($35, Amazon, DC Rainmaker-endorsed.) On my mac mini and macbook air, it was just plug and play. (I used two USB extension cords in series, fwiw. This worked, but I found out it was not necessary. I am still using one, however, so I don't have to do a reach-around the mac mini. But two will still work, despite USB specs to the contrary.)

So that is $95 to do a free trial. I can always use the second Wahoo, even though I hate putting anything electronic on my bike (apart from lights and Di2). At the very least, the kid will use the older SC with his iPod. Saves buying a cyclo-computer with its 1982 interface.

So everything arrived last night, and I set it up this morning on our i7 2012 mac mini (8 gig memory -- works well for computer games). (I also have a windows boot camp partition on this for gaming etc, so I might try the windows version of the trial at some point.)

(3) Download (takes forever -- throttled at their end) and setup. First irritation: requires email and password for every login. (Anyone know how to save the credentials to avoid this tedium?) The good news is it found the dongle and SC without any problems. No stinkin' driver install or anything. Everything just worked the first time. Cool.

(4) Start riding. Graphics look like shinola. I noticed it defaults to the lowest setting. I also tried 1080p and settled for 720p (I am almost 20 ft from the 52" LCD TV). Graphics is still a bit choppy, but I don't have a sense for how good it should be. The pedaling animation is quite smooth. The 12 year old sneered. It ain't Xbox or good computer game quality. Maybe a few tweaks could help.

(5) The (default)* interface: It is really cluttered. With binoculars, I can almost read some of it. I eventually noticed that my cadence was being read accurately, but the speed was really low. I thought it was a bug, but then I realized I was going up a 10% grade and my casual pedaling really did translate to sub-walking velocity. (A more accurate simulation would have the rider falling over while butterflies flew though the spokes.) So this thing does actually work, to a surprisingly accurate degree, even with a very simple, inexpensive (relative to a smart trainer) setup.

(6) Also tried it on my macbook air laptop. The processor etc are slower, the memory smaller by a factor of 2, but I can keep the thing close to my nose, or hook it up to a projector (my eventual goal) easily. The graphics might have been slightly improved. It was certainly no worse, even at 1080p (which in turn would be down-sampled slightly, so this too could probably be optimized at 720p).

The simulation seems reasonably accurate. People were passing me left and right on the hills, just like in real life. There are a bunch of rider customization settings, so you can set the color of your bike, the amount of pigment in your avatar, etc. My dear wife helpfully suggested that I should also increase the rider's weight by about 50 lbs.

I haven't tried any of the social network settings, mainly because I hate most people and avoid facebook, strava, and pretty much any other form of communication.

The ride simulations so far have had boring So Cal scenery. I need to explore other options if this is going to be better than putting on Netflix for an indoor ride.

I have 14 days to figure out whether this is worth it. So far, for a lame-arse rider like me, it isn't obvious. The mechanics seem to be well worked out. The graphics are a bit laggy and choppy and uninspiring, compared to a good video game (I don't play video games myself).


* It looks like there is an option for a minimal interface in the paid version. Good. (Well, depending on what they consider essential. I would consider cadence, speed, power, and % grade the most important stats for full-time display. A calorie counter that you could view in real-time, rather than when paused, would be a nice option to see how many more hours I need to ride to metabolize a cliff bar.)


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

wgscott said:


> In the future, I think I will try to digest breakfast before playing with the toy.
> 
> I have a Kurt Kinetic trainer and a bluetooth Wahoo SC (speed/cadence) sensor. I also have a TV and several computers. Plus it is winter here, which means it gets cold and rainy here (by wimpy California standards). The 12 year old is a video game addict packing on the pounds, and I should shed a few myself, so ... let's try Zwift for free for 14 days.
> 
> ...


First, that was hilarious. Second, I so appreciate your candor. Finally, I have been wondering many of those same things and I want to thank you for posting this. Please keep it going and let us know what your final decision is and why.


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## vitgor (Apr 10, 2015)

"My dear wife helpfully suggested that I should also increase the rider's weight by about 50 lbs." 

You made my day! Thank you for sharing, I am also considering going for a trainer in the rainy season...


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

wgscott said:


> In the future, I think I will try to digest breakfast before playing with the toy.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> So its been two weeks, I am curious, did you stay or flee?
> ...


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

There are two courses available in Zwift. The Richmond World Championship course, and the Watopia Island Course. You technically cannot select which course you ride on, as they are scheduled on the Zwift calendar. I've read that you can change your system date to ride the other course if you prefer, but I've never tried it. They recently implemented the ability to 'turn' and have flatter vs hillier variants of the Watopia course depending on which way you go. 

Zwift is in it's infancy, and the development is being done by a small team. Once they figure out how to monetize it (the possibilities are endless with sponsorships and in game advertising) and add development and support staff, they will be adding a lot more features. They've already stated they plan to work with real world fondo rides and such to develop in game versions of those. They will eventually also have better support for races as well (hopefully they'll tune the ZPower stuff to make it more realistic). They are working on improving the UI to include toggleable UI elements, better chat logging, friend and group tracking, and many other things. 

They will eventually also make which course your ride user selectable. Right now they are forcing everyone onto the same course so as not to split up the rider base (diminishing the social aspect of it). I was online riding on the early morning of Jan 2nd (pacific time) and there were nearly 2000 people riding the Watopia Island route.


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## Porschefan (Nov 12, 2011)

First, I'll echo previous posters compliments on your post--both humorous, informative and personally helpful as I prepare for my Zwift intiation--which is turning out to be a fairly complex process in my case since it also involves getting my first trainer and (most likely) a power meter.

I'll try to respond to some of your individual points/questions, but take any advice I give with a grain of salt. I've been wrong (well, completely off-base) from time to time.



wgscott said:


> The 12 year old is a video game addict packing on the pounds, and I should shed a few myself, so ... let's try Zwift for free for 14 days.


Nice rationalization for getting some new cycling toys. 




> (1) After about an hour of reading, I discovered my 3 year old Wahoo SC no good. I need a newer version that also does ANT+. I think it is a better bluetooth protocol or something. Anyway, I need a new Wahoo SC. $60. (Amazon).


Not important, but ANT+ is an entirely different protocol than any of the Bluetooth versions. So technically you wouldn't need a Wahoo Bluetooth Wahoo sensor---unless, of course, you have some other piece of gear that requires the Bluetooth capability. No matter, Wahoo BT dual-sensor is fine.



> (2) I need a dongle for the computer. The best deal I found was a Suunto Movestick Mini ... but I found out it was not necessary. I am still using one, however, so I don't have to do a reach-around the mac mini. But two will still work, despite USB specs to the contrary.)


Thanks for the tip/reference/reminder. I may as well order this now so it's ready when I am.



> So that is _$95 to do a free trial_.


And so it goes....:mad2:



> First irritation: requires email and password for every login. (Anyone know how to save the credentials to avoid this tedium?)


I use _Lastpass_, an excellent password manager which uses browser extensions/add-ons. It also has automated login features that work pretty well. With the increasing complexity of some website login procedures (presumably for security reasons) doesn't always work, but overall I like it. There are probably other, similar, tools out there. Caveat: I'm totally a Windows guy, so besides being wrong in general, this also risk not working in the Apple world.




> Also tried it on my macbook air laptop. The processor etc are slower, the memory smaller by a factor of 2, but I can keep the thing close to my nose, or hook it up to a projector (my eventual goal) easily. The graphics might have been slightly improved. It was certainly no worse, even at 1080p (which in turn would be down-sampled slightly, so this too could probably be optimized at 720p).


Sounds like you have this under control. DC Rainmaker's blog has a post on "_How To Get Your Trainer Apps on the Bigscreen_." That may or may not help.



> I haven't tried any of the social network settings, mainly because I hate most people and avoid facebook, strava, and pretty much any other form of communication.


Glad you made RBR an exception.  Misanthropy is easy in this world. As some radio host, lost in my fading memory, used to say: "These people live among you!" prior to relating some particularly worrisome example of something worthy of the Darwin awards. Today's example is probably the psycho "leader" of North Korea's setting off an hydrogen bomb...what could possibly go wrong?



> The ride simulations so far have had boring So Cal scenery. I need to explore other options if this is going to be better than putting on Netflix for an indoor ride.


I would think that the Zwift rides, or at least the "races" would require being aware of the "surroundings." But what do I know? My understanding is that Zwift is starting to offer structured workouts also, so I guess for those you'd just need some feedback on the data you're generating and you could watch whatever???? Good question though.

My plan is to use my trainer/power meter to get some structured workouts set up via Trainer Road and try out Zwift for fun.



> I have 14 days to figure out whether this is worth it. So far, for a lame-arse rider like me, it isn't obvious. The mechanics seem to be well worked out. The graphics are a bit laggy and choppy and uninspiring, compared to a good video game (I don't play video games myself).


Well keep us posted. The more I can learn from others' experiments the better!

All the best,
STP


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

A few added comments

To save money, I have a cheap ANT+ stick I bought on ebay for $9 It works fine but its Chinese made and probably made from toxic waste and plutonium

The graphics card you use is way more important than the processor. Also you do not need more than 4G memory to run Zwift. When I first got interested in Zwift I thought it would be the cool graphics that I would like. That turned out to be wrong. What makes it fun is that you are riding with "real" people and that means you can chase them, paceline with them, or get dropped by them. That's motivating for me. If you are close to the monitor I am not sure 720p vs 1080p, is that big a deal.

THis may change, but right now I dont use any of the IM or social media features


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## wgscott (Jul 14, 2013)

Sorry, I dropped the ball on this thread. I also dropped the ball on Zwift (distracted by the holidays), so I just re-registered for a trial. I've come to appreciate it a bit more, especially the structured workouts. I'll most likely subscribe for the CA rainy months, and I will probably use a large projection screen rather than my tiny 52" LCD TV (which is far enough away that I have trouble reading the stuff on the screen).

Thanks for all the tips, kind comments, laughs and encouragement, everyone!


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## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

wgscott said:


> Sorry, I dropped the ball on this thread. I also dropped the ball on Zwift (distracted by the holidays), so I just re-registered for a trial. I've come to appreciate it a bit more, especially the structured workouts. I'll most likely subscribe for the CA rainy months, and I will probably use a large projection screen rather than my tiny 52" LCD TV (which is far enough away that I have trouble reading the stuff on the screen).
> 
> Thanks for all the tips, kind comments, laughs and encouragement, everyone!


I guess my perspective is off. How is 52" tiny?!?!. I'm using about a 40" screen, and it's plenty big. (Bike is probably only 6-8 feet away, though). But even at home I only have a 40" screen, sit 8-10 get from it and it's huge, too. 'Course, we only got the 40" flat widescreen at home 5 years ago, only had a 20" standard screen before that.


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## wgscott (Jul 14, 2013)

The TV is huge. I was just being sarcastic. The bike is about 20 ft away from it.


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## VaughnA (Jun 3, 2003)

I've done 3 rides so far and I'm actually happier with it than I thought I would be. I use my ANT+ garmin speed/cadence sensor and heart rate monitor. I got an 18.00 ANT+ dongle from Amazon and I"m using it on a year old iMac. 

Installation was pretty easy, the only problem I had is that the dongle needs to be pretty much on or under the bike to cope with the limited range of ANT+. Everything else just installed and worked. 

The interface is a little clunky but I'm figuring it out and once you get moving it's not a big deal. I'm quite happy with the 'feel' of the riding and the way it works. My framerate is fine at 1080 so that's not a problem. You see your speed drop both on the numbers and visually so it almost feels like you are riding the course. 

Normally an hour is all I can do on a trainer. I find that an hour isn't a big problem and I'm not bored as I'm always trying to pass or not be passed, or beat my best KOM or sproint ranking. Zwift makes it quite interesting. 

I'm hooked and a fan.


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## wgscott (Jul 14, 2013)

I decided to buy a new woman's Brooks saddle for my wife and put it on the trainer to break it in a bit for her, since this is a pain in the ass anyway.

FWIW my ANT+ dongle (the one DC Rainmaker suggested, see above link) is working from about 25 ft away.

Today I tried to do a real ride instead of the trainer and promptly busted a spoke. Zwift would be more realistic if you occasionally got flats, broken spokes, and splattered on the road by an FUV passing on the right in an intersection while being driven by a distracted 500 lb psycho on a cell phone.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

I laughed much harder art this post than I probably should have! Nice job


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

Funny story to start the post!  Could have been worse, I had to buy a different laptop because my old clunker wouldn't support Open GL 3.1 which is required. After using my wife's i3 laptop with integrated graphics card to see if I wanted to really use it, I ended up picking up a used i7 with a dedicated graphics card off Ebay for my Zwift machine and project it on a 42 inch flat screen in the workout area of the basement. 

Free 2 months from Strava Premium will get me through February, and I might pay for a month after that until the roads clear up. The climbs and PRs etc I find are engaging and keep me moving hard. Intervals are probably better but I'm enjoying the virtual riding better than Netflix watching so far anyway. I may try one of the group rides in the future, the calendar doesn't have any when I optimally want to ride just yet.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

You can give workout mode a try, and still get your intervals.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

I tried the work out mode for the firs time this morning SST (Long) and I have to say its great having realtime display of power and interval times on the screen as well as visual cues for quality of execution and end of the workout as compared to having to stare at my bike computer. I would like to see the range before getting a warning for too high or low be a little bit tighter, perhaps a couple levels of warnings. 

For grins I used speed sensor with known trainer for 'virtual Zwift' power instead of linking to my power meter and found it's remarkably close across the entire range of power/speeds I used today comparing power curves and real time data. The Pioneer meter was about 2.5% lower than the Zwift power which is only 5 watts at 200, that's close enough for training purposes in my book.


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## dgeesaman (Jun 9, 2010)

I just finished my Zwift trial and first few workouts on my Kickr Snap trainer.

Overall the experience is pretty cool. Yes, do you need a capable computer, a screen you can see from your bike, a dynamic trainer or trainer on their supported list, and a bit of patience and practice getting it all set up.

I run it on my notebook computer with onboard graphics (Intel i5 w. 4000 graphics) and the performance is acceptable. I haven't tried it on my desktop, which might show more detail if the computing horsepower is available. With the notebook perched on a stack of boxes right in front of my handlebars I can follow along with the action but some text is hard to read. It has no effect on "gameplay" in any case.

I spent the first hour figuring out how to pace myself and climb "hills". I'm 200lb and I'd say the steady-state climbing is realistic enough, but it's hard to know what you're fighting unless you're watching the gradient display in the upper-right corner. I spend as much time watching that as any other thing. I would like if they color-coded that corner so I can keep track of incline without staring at it.

I don't like the feel of accelerating. It takes over a minute to hit 20mph on level ground. IRL the same effort takes me several seconds from a dead stop. I don't know if that is a Kickr Snap thing or a Zwift thing. If you have the light weight and power to keep your speed up over the inclines, maybe it's not a big deal.

Another Kickr Snap thing(?) is that on a steep incline, the tire will slip if things aren't set up right. Have your tire inflated at 110psi and clean both the tire and roller with alcohol. Then tighten down the knob two full turns from the first touch.

I'd love to have an independent power meter. I'm going to keep a closer eye on the products coming out for something that will give me accurate power IRL as well as on the trainer.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

Wheel slippage is going to happen to any trainer of that style (wheel on) if it's not adjusted properly.

When I was using that type of trainer (computrainer in my case), I had an inexpensive wheel dedicated to the trainer, and had installed a Vittoria trainer tire on it. The trainer tire is designed for that purpose and will last much longer than your standard road tire, and be less inclined to slip. 

Be aware that while you can run a dedicated power meter along with the SNAP, the SNAP will always use it's own power measurement to determine your resistance.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

I decided to try Zwift as well, new ant+ dongle $27
Cateye Stealth 50 $74
Motorola integrated speed/cadence sensor $22

as it turns out, i don't have a computer it will run on..... doh........


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## Mcfarton (May 23, 2014)

Touch0Gray said:


> I decided to try Zwift as well, new ant+ dongle $27
> Cateye Stealth 50 $74
> Motorola integrated speed/cadence sensor $22
> 
> as it turns out, i don't have a computer it will run on..... doh........


So are you going to buy a computer or liquidate?


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Mcfarton said:


> So are you going to buy a computer or liquidate?


neither, I ordered another ICS and will use the Stealth 50 on the road, it is actually a pretty nice little computer IF the gps is reasonably accurate

edit: hard to tell on the rollers!

edit2: or I could borrow my wife's computer, it would run it (maybe)


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## Chader09 (Jun 10, 2014)

Might as well install. You can go into the "Just Watch" mode, adjust video settings and see if it runs. That can be done without pairing devices, so it will show you if it works or not.


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## apn (Mar 1, 2012)

wgscott said:


> ...Today I tried to do a real ride instead of the trainer and promptly busted a spoke. Zwift would be more realistic if you occasionally got flats, broken spokes, and...


I was doing a workout last night and at ~50 minutes into the hour I figured I'd burned the tire and was slipping; zPower went WAY up and yet there was no resistance at the pedals. Turns out I had a flat; on a dedicated trainer bike, no less. Found the remnants of a toothpick-like spike, likely from the last time the bike ventured out ~9 months ago.

I really like the workout feature and use it a few times a week. Having the time and stats on-screen is just what I need to keep me going. At the end of the workout, I often extend the ride to complete the current lap.

One thing I'd like to see is that in non-workout mode, the color of the (power/HR/cadence) stats box in the upper left of the screen match your current power zone. The box is constantly blue, but I, and probably other riders would like to know their power zone while just riding or especially while in a race or other group ride.


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## Migen21 (Oct 28, 2014)

I suggested on their help site that they make some changes to the workout graph along the bottom of the screen. 

It should have a line for cadence, and optionally speed and elevation (for course mode), and each element should be toggleable (perhaps a checkbox), and most importantly it needs to be available in free ride and regular 'course' mode (not riding in a workout). 

Also, particularly in workout mode, it should have the current position closer to the middle of the screen, and show you (optionally?) the upcoming segments.


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## Chader09 (Jun 10, 2014)

apn said:


> One thing I'd like to see is that in non-workout mode, the color of the (power/HR/cadence) stats box in the upper left of the screen match your current power zone. The box is constantly blue, but I, and probably other riders would like to know their power zone while just riding or especially while in a race or other group ride.


Great idea! :thumbsup:

Make sure you post that somewhere so they can consider it for inclusion in future updates.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

Chader09 said:


> Might as well install. You can go into the "Just Watch" mode, adjust video settings and see if it runs. That can be done without pairing devices, so it will show you if it works or not.


doesn't run......


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

Touch0Gray said:


> doesn't run......


I was in this dilemma a few weeks ago. I wasn't sure how much I would like Zwift. I cashed in some airline miles for an Alienware Alpha. Fortunately, I am hooked on Zwift now, but it could have gone the other way. Probably the cheapest option is a used desktop and new video card. The video card might also necessitate a power supply upgrade too.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

DaveG said:


> I was in this dilemma a few weeks ago. I wasn't sure how much I would like Zwift. I cashed in some airline miles for an Alienware Alpha. Fortunately, I am hooked on Zwift now, but it could have gone the other way. Probably the cheapest option is a used desktop and new video card. The video card might also necessitate a power supply upgrade too.


my desktop is my business machine, that comes first...by the fricking time I got this squared away, spring will be here and i have 6 bikes and thousands of miles of roads!


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

Touch0Gray said:


> my desktop is my business machine, that comes first...by the fricking time I got this squared away, spring will be here and i have 6 bikes and thousands of miles of roads!


I'm good with an early spring, but I'm ready in case of snowmageddon


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

DaveG said:


> I'm good with an early spring, but I'm ready in case of snowmageddon


It quit snowing in WI last year after i got new snow removal equipment


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