# S-work and pro.



## Bhothak (Jun 4, 2012)

Hi, im new to this forum.

I have a simple question, whats the different between sl4 s-work and sl4 pro?
Also s-work venge and venge pro.

Thanks.


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## B.Garcia (Nov 21, 2011)

Marketing says weight and stiffness but I don't think the average person can tell the difference.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Difference?
S-works paintjob = $1000.
Agree with Garcia.
In fact if it matters to you, Pro will have a 'fractionally' softer ride...if you can even feel the diff. Probably won't feel the 150g savings in weight either. 
Bet in a blind test with the same paint job, the frames couldn't be told apart.


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## scottma (May 18, 2012)

Besides frame, S-Works will have top end Groupset, wheels, bars, etc. All components will pretty much be top end and Pro a notch lower in some cases.


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## CuppiesCake (Jun 1, 2012)

Don't listen to the people saying it's a "paint job"...they've probably never ridden these bikes back to back. 

The difference is instantly noticeable. They are lighter, stiffer, have better wheels and grouppo, etc. It's a night and day difference.


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## earl_je (May 17, 2012)

ego boost makes you pedal faster and harder thus instant night and day difference


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## Bhothak (Jun 4, 2012)

I forgot to say, im only looking for the frame differences, not including the groupset and everything else.


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## mmorales (Apr 28, 2012)

There is a definite difference between the two. Ride them both, and see for yourself. In the end get the bike you prefer.


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## Bhothak (Jun 4, 2012)

:The problem is, i dont know anyone who own one :hand:


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Bhothak said:


> Hi, im new to this forum.
> 
> I have a simple question, whats the different between sl4 s-work and sl4 pro?
> Also s-work venge and venge pro.
> ...


To answer your question, weight, stiffness and vertical compliance. At least those are the marketers reasons for 'upgrading' to the next higher level. 

Since we can't ride _just_ a frameset, there's no segregating out the effects of wheels, tires (construction, size, PSI) and many argue that tires alone make more of a difference than the relatively minute differences between frames - or even materials used in their construction. IME just changing a bikes geo in certain ways affects ride qualities.

If you did do a back to back test of the bikes mentioned, even set up identically, the riders would likely walk away with different impressions, because style of riding, personal preferences, our cycling experiences, weight (among other factors) enter into our decisions of what constitutes the best bike. 

JMO, but I'm of the mind that (as is the case of most any product), above a certain price point, there are diminishing returns and you pay a lot to get that little extra. If it's worth ~1k for you to get that, I'd say go for it. If not, save the money and 'settle' for the Pro. The vast majority of recreational cyclists would do fine with that choice.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

scottma said:


> Besides frame, S-Works will have top end Groupset, wheels, bars, etc. All components will pretty much be top end and Pro a notch lower in some cases.


A very small notch and some of that is preference. More familiar with 2011 because that's when I tested and bought my Tarmac pro. Calling Sram Red a downgrade is mere opinion. 

Wheels? Maybe slightly. But the differences are truly slim and a lot of it is preference. 

I might have gotten the Expert for even less if not for the ultegra and the ugly paint job.


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## Bhothak (Jun 4, 2012)

What are the weight difference between the pro and s-work on venge?


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Bhothak said:


> What are the weight difference between the pro and s-work on venge?


I've never weighed them, but keep in mind that painted versus matte/ natural makes a difference. According to the US website, the Venge Pro is only available painted, so between that and the slightly lower grade CF, it'll weigh more than a comparable S-Works frame.

All that aside, I think only WW's would care given that _max_, you'll be looking at ~150g's - a little over 5 oz's.


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

roadworthy said:


> Difference?
> S-works paintjob = $1000.
> Agree with Bhothak.
> In fact if it matters to you, Pro will have a 'fractionally' softer ride...if you can even feel the diff.
> Bet in a blind test with the same paint job, the frames couldn't be told apart.


Honestly, there are much better color options on the S-WORKS frames. I'd say they're worth it. <3 that pink.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

jsedlak said:


> Honestly, there are much better color options on the S-WORKS frames. I'd say they're worth it. <3 that pink.


Then Specialized did their job. They created just enough product diversity to extract another $1K from your wallet.


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

Up here in the mountains...I "Liked" my Pro...Love my S-works!! But, I ride an old man's S-Works...Roubaix!!! Does exceptionally well up and down the hills. Not sure it matters that much but, as I view my Strava account for identical rides on the Pro vs. the S Works...I see a range of, for example, 20 -26 seconds faster on our local hill - Lookout Mountain...5.5 miles, 1558 ft ascent, avg of 5.3% grade.


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## Sworker (Jul 22, 2010)

I have a 07' Roub S-Works and a 09' Tarmac Pro. Now the Roub had Campy Record 10 and Carbon rims, it was a late season build out that Specialized offered to a few dealers. But now on to the comparo, my friend bought the 09' S-Works SL2 Tarmac, I believe it had FACT 11 versus FACT 10 which was the same carbon my Roubaix had. The S-Works came with full Dura Ace while my Pro had Ultegra brake and cassette setup while his was fully DA, but the big difference is his was built out with Zipp 404 clinchers while my Pro had Fulcrum Racing 1. I have ridden his bike once or twice and I do see a little difference, if i had it to do over again I would still have done the Pro as I got it at raw cost in 09' from the LBS which was 1200 less then he bought his S-Works the following year from another shop.

If you cannot ride both of them and your not a long-term rider then really you'd love either of them....but there is a sex appeal for S-Works, my Tarmac gets zero "nice bike" comments but the S-Works always gets one or two.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Andy Pancroft said:


> Up here in the mountains...I "Liked" my Pro...Love my S-works!! But, I ride an old man's S-Works...Roubaix!!! Does exceptionally well up and down the hills. Not sure it matters that much but, as I view my Strava account for identical rides on the Pro vs. the S Works...I see a range of, for example, 20 -26 seconds faster on our local hill - Lookout Mountain...5.5 miles, 1558 ft ascent, avg of 5.3% grade.


I am sorry Andy but I just don't believe the time difference you speak of is attibuted to the bikes. It could be a lot of things...including gearing and wheels/tires. It could also be your position. I know I am faster on a Roubaix because my fit is better than that of a Tarmac. I personally believe there would be absolutely nothing between any of the bikes in your ride comparison...perhaps going down as far to the lowest of Roubaixs or Tarmacs...excepting the bigger weight difference there for climbing. It has never been proven for example that there is an speed difference with a stiffer bike especially one that is less than 10% stiffer....including the stiffness difference between Venge and Tarmac that is often written about.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Sworker said:


> I have a 07' Roub S-Works and a 09' Tarmac Pro. Now the Roub had Campy Record 10 and Carbon rims, it was a late season build out that Specialized offered to a few dealers. But now on to the comparo, my friend bought the 09' S-Works SL2 Tarmac, I believe it had FACT 11 versus FACT 10 which was the same carbon my Roubaix had. The S-Works came with full Dura Ace while my Pro had Ultegra brake and cassette setup while his was fully DA, but the big difference is his was built out with Zipp 404 clinchers while my Pro had Fulcrum Racing 1. I have ridden his bike once or twice and I do see a little difference, if i had it to do over again I would still have done the Pro as I got it at raw cost in 09' from the LBS which was 1200 less then he bought his S-Works the following year from another shop.
> 
> If you cannot ride both of them and your not a long-term rider then really you'd love either of them....but there is a sex appeal for S-Works, my Tarmac gets zero "nice bike" comments but the S-Works always gets one or two.


The bikes may have 'felt' different but there is no proof there is anything between them in speed.


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## Bosock (Apr 1, 2012)

I have the 2012 S-Works Roubaix. I had a 2012 Roubaix Pro that had a defect in the paint and Specialized replaced it with an S-Works frame. So I have rode both with all the same parts to include wheels. You can definitely tell the difference. I do not have data to verify any speed differences; however, the S-Works feels lighter under you and more efficient pedaling. Does it seem like you would be faster on it...yes...because the S-Works just feels so light and responsive. When i got the pro i thought it was a very smooth, stiff, and efficient bike. I was very very happy with it. When the paint defect showed and I was informed i was getting a S-Works I figured OK...colors are a wash...and might add little to the resale value when the time comes to upgrade. I have no intention to upgrade for awhile (i say that now)...I noticed the difference immediately on the first ride. The PRO is a very nice bike...but i could notice a ride difference with the S-Works...is it worth the price difference if I had to buy it...I am not sure to be honest if it was frame only...if it was based on how they come spec'd as a full bike...probably.


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## Bhothak (Jun 4, 2012)

ThAnks bosock...i think i know which one im looking for now 

But please do not stop here, the more oppinion the better :thumbsup:


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

Bosock said:


> I have the 2012 S-Works Roubaix. I had a 2012 Roubaix Pro that had a defect in the paint and Specialized replaced it with an S-Works frame. So I have rode both with all the same parts to include wheels. You can definitely tell the difference. I do not have data to verify any speed differences; however, the S-Works feels lighter under you and more efficient pedaling. Does it seem like you would be faster on it...yes...because the S-Works just feels so light and responsive. When i got the pro i thought it was a very smooth, stiff, and efficient bike. I was very very happy with it. When the paint defect showed and I was informed i was getting a S-Works I figured OK...colors are a wash...and might add little to the resale value when the time comes to upgrade. I have no intention to upgrade for awhile (i say that now)...I noticed the difference immediately on the first ride. The PRO is a very nice bike...but i could notice a ride difference with the S-Works...is it worth the price difference if I had to buy it...I am not sure to be honest if it was frame only...if it was based on how they come spec'd as a full bike...probably.


+1!!!!!!! Even if it's soley the fact you feel more comfy on the S-Works, if it makes a difference, it makes a difference!!!


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Andy Pancroft said:


> +1!!!!!!! Even if it's soley the fact you feel more comfy on the S-Works, if it makes a difference, it makes a difference!!!


Explain to me how increasing the modulus of carbon fibers from 10r to 11r will make a S-works more 'comfy'? I am sorry, but that is pure baloney. The S-works may feel stiffer because it is fractionally and btw, it is not that much stiffer because the objective was to reduce weight which is accomplished with a lower volume of 11r carbon. Reducing section reduces stiffness. So its a balance. The last time I checked, stiffer doesn't equal more comfy. Further, there is no scientific proof that a stiffer frameset is faster as most engineers and physcists still believe in the the 1st law of thermodynamics.
With the S-works you have a 150 gram lighter frame...aka half a water bottle full of water which is fractionally stiffer. I have ridden my Roubaix Pro 200 miles this week. I don't want the bike any stiffer than it is. The thing is super stiff and accelerates like a rocket. In fact, if they softened the flex of the bike 5-10% I would be OK with it. The S-works is Specialized racing frame. Its OK if the public buys them of course...it pays the bills for Specialized. The guys that race them however are given the frames.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Bosock said:


> I have the 2012 S-Works Roubaix. I had a 2012 Roubaix Pro that had a defect in the paint and Specialized replaced it with an S-Works frame. So I have rode both with all the same parts to include wheels. You can definitely tell the difference. I do not have data to verify any speed differences; however, the S-Works feels lighter under you and more efficient pedaling. Does it seem like you would be faster on it...yes...because the S-Works just feels so light and responsive. When i got the pro i thought it was a very smooth, stiff, and efficient bike. I was very very happy with it. When the paint defect showed and I was informed i was getting a S-Works I figured OK...colors are a wash...and might add little to the resale value when the time comes to upgrade. I have no intention to upgrade for awhile (i say that now)...*I noticed the difference immediately on the first ride. *The PRO is a very nice bike...but i could notice a ride difference with the S-Works...is it worth the price difference if I had to buy it...I am not sure to be honest if it was frame only...if it was based on how they come spec'd as a full bike...probably.


You didn't say what difference you noticed.


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

roadworthy said:


> Explain to me how increasing the modulus of carbon fibers from 10r to 11r will make a S-works more 'comfy'? I am sorry, but that is pure baloney. The S-works may feel stiffer because it is fractionally and btw, it is not that much stiffer because the objective was to reduce weight which is accomplished with a lower volume of 11r carbon. Reducing section reduces stiffness. So its a balance. The last time I checked, stiffer doesn't equal more comfy. Further, there is no scientific proof that a stiffer frameset is faster as most engineers and physcists still believe in the the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
> With the S-works you have a 150 gram lighter frame...aka half a water bottle full of water which is fractionally stiffer. I have ridden my Roubaix Pro 200 miles this week. I don't want the bike any stiffer than it is. The thing is super stiff and accelerates like a rocket. In fact, if they softened the flex of the bike 5-10% I would be OK with it. The S-works is Specialized racing frame. Its OK if the public buys them of course...it pays the bills for Specialized. The guys that race them however are given the frames.


Maybe you can just take your arguing and trolling home to your wife!!!?? If those of us who choose to pay for and ride frame A or frame B because we are able to feel a difference then, yay us!!! I race my Roubaix and find I am quite a bit more capable of staying on this bike much more comfortably than on the previous iteration I had ridden!!!

I do, however, appreciate all of your expertise in this area - I'm certain Specialized and other manufacturers consider all of your input before deciding to waste money on R&D when they can simply benefit from your vast and extensive knowledge!!! And, you're what...a Cat I rider or, perhaps...currently hold a UCI license!!?? Whichever, I will continue to await your next post as it will certainly affect my decision when considering my nest purchase!!!


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

Good luck with whatever you decide to ride!!! It's off on my, same as the Pro, S-Works for a quick 75!!!:aureola:


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

I had to make the same decision a few years ago when I bought my SL3 frameset.
I test rode the S-Works first because that is what they had in stock in my size.
I went to another shop on a different day to test ride the Pro.
Because it was different days, different components, different roads I really could not tell what the real difference between the S-Works and Pro was. I did feel the S-Works rode better.
Since I was just buying the frameset the price difference was about $1,000.
I decided to go with the S-Works because I have not bought a bike in along time and probably won't buy another for a long time and $1,000 wasn't that much considering everything.
I love the bike and don't regret the decision.


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

That size chart is WAY off!!!! Anybody not sizing you and suggesting that you buy a size based upon figures on a chart knows not of what they speak!!!! I am 6'1", 50 years old and have been racing crits for 30 years!!! I live in Denver and ride a substantial amount of hills - 27k ft of ascent in May!! So, I elected to go with a Roubaix for my daily trainer and leave the F1 for racing (I have raced my Roubaix in certain road races that have some changes in elevation). I ALWAYS have Retul fit done on my bikes - there are several variables that go into fit, far more than just your height. Perfect example...at 6'1", if I went by the suggestion on the chart offered, I would be riding a 58cm. After Retul, my 61cm Roubaix has a significant amount of seatpost exposed!! I am pretty flexible and this 61cm fits me VERY comfortably!!! 

You need to go into a shop, ride a few sizes/bikes and allow a fit professional to guide you!!!!


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Andy Pancroft said:


> Maybe you can just take your arguing and trolling home to your wife!!!?? If those of us who choose to pay for and ride frame A or frame B because we are able to feel a difference then, yay us!!! I race my Roubaix and find I am quite a bit more capable of staying on this bike much more comfortably than on the previous iteration I had ridden!!!
> 
> I do, however, appreciate all of your expertise in this area - I'm certain Specialized and other manufacturers consider all of your input before deciding to waste money on R&D when they can simply benefit from your vast and extensive knowledge!!! And, you're what...a Cat I rider or, perhaps...currently hold a UCI license!!?? Whichever, I will continue to await your next post as it will certainly affect my decision when considering my nest purchase!!!


Actually Andy, you are the perfect buyer for a S-works bike. Specialized marketing worked to perfection. I love Specialized bikes including your S-works. But there is nothing between the S-works and Pro in performance....Zilch. A world class rider on a $1500 CAAD 10 bike will drop you and me like nobodies' business. Its about the engine bro. The bikes for all intents are identical except for 150g or a half full water bottle and an 'unpublished' increase in stiffness which won't manifest more speed and only make the ride harsher. I am glad you are happy with your S-works...a whale of a bike...and I believe best in class for a racing frame.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Andy Pancroft said:


> That size chart is WAY off!!!! Anybody not sizing you and suggesting that you buy a size based upon figures on a chart knows not of what they speak!!!! I am 6'1", 50 years old and have been racing crits for 30 years!!! I live in Denver and ride a substantial amount of hills - 27k ft of ascent in May!! So, I elected to go with a Roubaix for my daily trainer and leave the F1 for racing (I have raced my Roubaix in certain road races that have some changes in elevation). I ALWAYS have Retul fit done on my bikes - there are several variables that go into fit, far more than just your height. Perfect example...at 6'1", if I went by the suggestion on the chart offered, I would be riding a 58cm. After Retul, my 61cm Roubaix has a significant amount of seatpost exposed!! I am pretty flexible and this 61cm fits me VERY comfortably!!!
> 
> You need to go into a shop, ride a few sizes/bikes and allow a fit professional to guide you!!!!


While I agree that for you...I too am 6'1"...you should be on a 61....I am on a 58. I know some 6'+ guys who ride a 56 Roubaix. Inseam matters a lot. Your inseam appears to be 3 full std. deviations to the right of median....freakishly long legs for a guy 6'1".
I have a 35.25" cycling inseam and don't show nearly as much post on my 58 Roubaix.


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## Bosock (Apr 1, 2012)

Actually I did Roadworthy...i noted the bike felt lighter under me and more efficient. I personally dont care if you believe it is noticeable or not...i can just tell you i will be supporting the great Specialized conspiracy with every new bike purchase I make as i am sold on the S-works after riding it. Is it worth the money...to some i am sure and to others i am sure it isn't...i just like the ride and have the disposable income to splurge on the S-Works. I just took the bike on a Gran Fondo that involved 32 miles of steep climbing over a mountain pass and the light feel, comfort, and pedaling efficiency of the bike allowed me to complete the 85 mile ride in a good time and leaving me feeling so good and not beat up that afterwards i was up for a quick hike and a night out on the town with my fellow bikers...bike just felt great the entire ride. I work hard for what i like and i like the S-Works...if for some reason this upsets you or you believe its wrong...i can live with it. I also agree with Andy...if you believe it is worth it and can afford it ... go with it ... people shouldn't get hung up on forum experts telling them what to buy based on their logic and the decisions they make...i had the S-Works thrown in my lap and loving it to be honest with you. Anyway, my intent isnt to come on here and argue or try to justify every single comment i make in my post...I like the S-Works and if i think anyone can jump on the two and objectively evaluate the ride they will see ... like i said...i loved the Pro and would have been happy with that bike...but when they gave me that S-Works frame...with all the same parts taken off the Pro frame...i could tell a difference in the rides...and i liked the S-Works ride slightly better. Good luck with your purchase decision OP...cant go wrong with either bike...and good luck on the sizing as being comfortable on the bike is priority one.


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## roox (May 14, 2008)

I am another one similar to roadworthy, I am 6'2" and can either ride a 58 Roubaix with about 3/4 of the seatpost you have exposed, or my prefered size, a 56 with still not as much seatpost exposed and a 130mm stem and a lot of drop.

I would love to know your inseam! Mine is 35 on the button.



roadworthy said:


> While I agree that for you...I too am 6'1"...you should be on a 61....I am on a 58. I know some 6'+ guys who ride a 56 Roubaix. Inseam matters a lot. Your inseam appears to be 3 full std. deviations to the right of median....freakishly long legs for a guy 6'1".
> I have a 35.25" cycling inseam and don't show nearly as much post on my 58 Roubaix.


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

Bosock said:


> Actually I did Roadworthy...i noted the bike felt lighter under me and more efficient. I personally dont care if you believe it is noticeable or not...i can just tell you i will be supporting the great Specialized conspiracy with every new bike purchase I make as i am sold on the S-works after riding it. Is it worth the money...to some i am sure and to others i am sure it isn't...i just like the ride and have the disposable income to splurge on the S-Works. I just took the bike on a Gran Fondo that involved 32 miles of steep climbing over a mountain pass and the light feel, comfort, and pedaling efficiency of the bike allowed me to complete the 85 mile ride in a good time and leaving me feeling so good and not beat up that afterwards i was up for a quick hike and a night out on the town with my fellow bikers...bike just felt great the entire ride. I work hard for what i like and i like the S-Works...if for some reason this upsets you or you believe its wrong...i can live with it. I also agree with Andy...if you believe it is worth it and can afford it ... go with it ... people shouldn't get hung up on forum experts telling them what to buy based on their logic and the decisions they make...i had the S-Works thrown in my lap and loving it to be honest with you. Anyway, my intent isnt to come on here and argue or try to justify every single comment i make in my post...I like the S-Works and if i think anyone can jump on the two and objectively evaluate the ride they will see ... like i said...i loved the Pro and would have been happy with that bike...but when they gave me that S-Works frame...with all the same parts taken off the Pro frame...i could tell a difference in the rides...and i liked the S-Works ride slightly better. Good luck with your purchase decision OP...cant go wrong with either bike...and good luck on the sizing as being comfortable on the bike is priority one.


+1!!!! End of the day, when I get off my S-Works, I have a big smile on my face!!!! That's all that counts for me!!!


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

roadworthy said:


> While I agree that for you...I too am 6'1"...you should be on a 61....I am on a 58. I know some 6'+ guys who ride a 56 Roubaix. Inseam matters a lot. Your inseam appears to be 3 full std. deviations to the right of median....freakishly long legs for a guy 6'1".
> I have a 35.25" cycling inseam and don't show nearly as much post on my 58 Roubaix.


Mine is 34!!!


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Bosock said:


> Actually I did Roadworthy...i noted the bike felt lighter under me and more efficient. I personally dont care if you believe it is noticeable or not...i can just tell you i will be supporting the great Specialized conspiracy with every new bike purchase I make as i am sold on the S-works after riding it. Is it worth the money...to some i am sure and to others i am sure it isn't...i just like the ride and have the disposable income to splurge on the S-Works. I just took the bike on a Gran Fondo that involved 32 miles of steep climbing over a mountain pass and the light feel, comfort, and pedaling efficiency of the bike allowed me to complete the 85 mile ride in a good time and leaving me feeling so good and not beat up that afterwards i was up for a quick hike and a night out on the town with my fellow bikers...bike just felt great the entire ride. I work hard for what i like and i like the S-Works...if for some reason this upsets you or you believe its wrong...i can live with it. I also agree with Andy...if you believe it is worth it and can afford it ... go with it ... people shouldn't get hung up on forum experts telling them what to buy based on their logic and the decisions they make...i had the S-Works thrown in my lap and loving it to be honest with you. Anyway, my intent isnt to come on here and argue or try to justify every single comment i make in my post...I like the S-Works and if i think anyone can jump on the two and objectively evaluate the ride they will see ... like i said...i loved the Pro and would have been happy with that bike...but when they gave me that S-Works frame...with all the same parts taken off the Pro frame...i could tell a difference in the rides...and i liked the S-Works ride slightly better. Good luck with your purchase decision OP...cant go wrong with either bike...and good luck on the sizing as being comfortable on the bike is priority one.


Actually Bosock...I am hugely glad for guys like you and Andy. This is how the dynamic works. Specialized takes the same frameset molds only lay in 11r versus 10r carbon, paint the frame a different color with a different decal and charge you $1K more for it.
You have a stiffer frame which you apparently like and save from riding with your water bottle half empty to derive the less than 5 oz weight savigs.  Specialized rakes in all the profit from guys like you who watch the pros race on the S-works frames that are given to them to race for marketing to turn higher profit on the backs of guys like you who want to have what the pros ride with S-works logo which you think is a better bike....placebo is a wonderful thing...and aside from success sharing with employees and the bonus to their marketing department for creating this revenue windfall, they take this profit and reinvest it in R&D and create even better bikes in the future. Its a beautiful cycle if you think about. Win/win. 
Your comments about the S-works frame being different from the Pro has about as much veracity as Andy saying his inseam is 34 inches...lol...showing a foot of seatpost on a 61cm at 6'1". Great comedy.


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

jnbrown said:


> I had to make the same decision a few years ago when I bought my SL3 frameset.
> I test rode the S-Works first because that is what they had in stock in my size.
> I went to another shop on a different day to test ride the Pro.
> Because it was different days, different components, different roads I really could not tell what the real difference between the S-Works and Pro was. I did feel the S-Works rode better.
> ...


Which B did you get on your bike?? I elected to go with GXP. Wondering how those with BB30 are fairing!!!???


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

Bosock said:


> Actually I did Roadworthy...i noted the bike felt lighter under me and more efficient. I personally dont care if you believe it is noticeable or not...i can just tell you i will be supporting the great Specialized conspiracy with every new bike purchase I make as i am sold on the S-works after riding it. Is it worth the money...to some i am sure and to others i am sure it isn't...i just like the ride and have the disposable income to splurge on the S-Works. I just took the bike on a Gran Fondo that involved 32 miles of steep climbing over a mountain pass and the light feel, comfort, and pedaling efficiency of the bike allowed me to complete the 85 mile ride in a good time and leaving me feeling so good and not beat up that afterwards i was up for a quick hike and a night out on the town with my fellow bikers...bike just felt great the entire ride. I work hard for what i like and i like the S-Works...if for some reason this upsets you or you believe its wrong...i can live with it. I also agree with Andy...if you believe it is worth it and can afford it ... go with it ... people shouldn't get hung up on forum experts telling them what to buy based on their logic and the decisions they make...i had the S-Works thrown in my lap and loving it to be honest with you. Anyway, my intent isnt to come on here and argue or try to justify every single comment i make in my post...I like the S-Works and if i think anyone can jump on the two and objectively evaluate the ride they will see ... like i said...i loved the Pro and would have been happy with that bike...but when they gave me that S-Works frame...with all the same parts taken off the Pro frame...i could tell a difference in the rides...and i liked the S-Works ride slightly better. Good luck with your purchase decision OP...cant go wrong with either bike...and good luck on the sizing as being comfortable on the bike is priority one.


Interested to know what your bike weighs in at?? My 61cm comes in at 15.5!! My F1 with DI2 comes in at just north of 17 and my Pro also came in at about 17 lbs!! Love my SW!!! Specialized and SRAM are sponsors of the team I race for; wheels were the only thing I had to pay MSRP for...bike came in complete at $4600, everything NIB (sans the Fulcrums I use to train)!!! ONLY complaint; a for example...did 52 miles yesterday, 1961 ft of ascent and can only burn 658 calories!! Guess I need to ride harder!!!??? LOL


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## jnbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

Andy Pancroft said:


> Which B did you get on your bike?? I elected to go with GXP. Wondering how those with BB30 are fairing!!!???


I have the S-Works cranks, they work fine and I like how they look.


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

jnbrown said:


> I have the S-Works cranks, they work fine and I like how they look.


Nice!! I'm learning that the SRAM ceramic BB is a PITA!!! I am pulling apart my BB every two weeks - 800-1000 miles - to stop the creaking!!! Thinking I'm going to go with a Chris King BB!!!???


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

Heading out for a quick roll to Golden and up Lookout Mtn!!! Tomorrow, riding to and up Mt. Evans - first time making any type of real ascent on the S-Works!! Will post up my experience tomorrow!!


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## CoTreeHugger (Jun 9, 2012)

Interesting thread. Guy I met riding today turned me on to the forum. We rode for quite a while (he was obviously riding WITH me as when we broke off, he quickly disappeared up the hill) and he thought my bike looked small for me. After my ride I took his advice and stopped into a shop and was told that, sure enough, I should be riding a bigger bike. Being relatively new to cycling, I allowed a kid at the bike shop convince me that the chart he had was an accurate gauge with which to make my purchase. While this is going to be an expensive lesson, figure I may as well make the best of the situation and go for the upgrade to the SWorks.


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

CoTreeHugger said:


> Interesting thread. Guy I met riding today turned me on to the forum. We rode for quite a while (he was obviously riding WITH me as when we broke off, he quickly disappeared up the hill) and he thought my bike looked small for me. After my ride I took his advice and stopped into a shop and was told that, sure enough, I should be riding a bigger bike. Being relatively new to cycling, I allowed a kid at the bike shop convince me that the chart he had was an accurate gauge with which to make my purchase. While this is going to be an expensive lesson, figure I may as well make the best of the situation and go for the upgrade to the SWorks.


Is this Clint????


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

S-Works ROOOOOBAIX FRIDAY!!!!!!! Did The Deer Creek Challenge route - several 13 and 15+% grades!!! And...wear your sunscreen!!!! OUCH!!!!


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## ralph1 (May 20, 2006)

CoTreeHugger said:


> Interesting thread. Guy I met riding today turned me on to the forum. We rode for quite a while (he was obviously riding WITH me as when we broke off, he quickly disappeared up the hill) and he thought my bike looked small for me. After my ride I took his advice and stopped into a shop and was told that, sure enough, I should be riding a bigger bike. Being relatively new to cycling, I allowed a kid at the bike shop convince me that the chart he had was an accurate gauge with which to make my purchase. While this is going to be an expensive lesson, figure I may as well make the best of the situation and go for the upgrade to the SWorks.


I would at least approach the original bike shop and ask what were they thinking, and see if they can upgrade you to the correct size. After sales service might still mean something in some places.

cheers

Pete


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## CoTreeHugger (Jun 9, 2012)

Andy Pancroft said:


> Is this Clint????


Yep, it's me. Listen, right after we broke off, I took your advice and looked for a Retul fitter and went directly to him. Two minutes of watching me on the bike, he agreed with most everything you pointed out, bike is too small. I really didn't understand what you meant y the stem being too short and flipped pointed up but, he explained all that to me and how it relates to poor handling and lack of flexibility. So, I'm going to get the right size in the Sworks and, as you suggested, look into yoga or pilates.

Can you remind me of the body analysis you do?

Thanks for all you help and suggestions.


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## roox (May 14, 2008)

and get a second opinion....... "umm yeah, that bike totally doesnt fit you.. you need to buy a new one or risk injury... get an S-Works while you are at it....."

Why don't you post your critical measurements, both current bike and body.



ralph1 said:


> I would at least approach the original bike shop and ask what were they thinking, and see if they can upgrade you to the correct size. After sales service might still mean something in some places.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Pete


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

CoTreeHugger said:


> Yep, it's me. Listen, right after we broke off, I took your advice and looked for a Retul fitter and went directly to him. Two minutes of watching me on the bike, he agreed with most everything you pointed out, bike is too small. I really didn't understand what you meant y the stem being too short and flipped pointed up but, he explained all that to me and how it relates to poor handling and lack of flexibility. So, I'm going to get the right size in the Sworks and, as you suggested, look into yoga or pilates.
> 
> Can you remind me of the body analysis you do?
> 
> Thanks for all you help and suggestions.


Hey Clint, glad you made it to the board!!! Yes, your bike is pretty obviously too small!! Sorry you went through the purchase but, is what it is!! You are best served to always have yourself sized up by a professional prior to making the purchase - anyone that would suggest you purchase based upon a graph or chart shouldn't be dispensing advice!!! Glad you found a good Retul shop - who did you go to?? And, what I was telling you about your stem....80m is WAY too short and does effect your bike's handling. And, the stem being flipped up on the Roubaix is kinda ridiculous - the bikes geometry is so relaxed, you shouldn't have to have the stem flipped up. In both cases, you can eliminate the need by working on your flexibility!! You should be able put your feet together and bend touching the ground with flat palms. If you can't, you need to start working on it!!! Check the pics - my girlfriend has me going to pilates AND yoga and she is the bomb master yoga teacher!!! We were also discussing your cadence - you should be able to maintain 90-95 pretty much throughout your ride, whether rolling at 30 mph on a flat or 11 mph on a 6% grade. If you can't, you need to re-gear the bike until you find the legs for it!! 

Finally, if you do decide to just build an entire bike and don't use your current components, do either roll with DA or Red. Campy has always been WAY behind in technology and has never been able to get it right - only thing they do right is wheels which is why I train on the Racing Zeros, they're good, cheap training wheels!! And, frankly, putting Campy on anything other than an Italian frame is lame!!! LOL

The body comp I do each year is "Bod Pod". You need to get your baseline and this is the best means to find it!! Hit me up and let's ride again!!!

And, trash the pro kits - nothing screams Fred like someone wearing a pro kit!!! LOL


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## CoTreeHugger (Jun 9, 2012)

roox said:


> and get a second opinion....... "umm yeah, that bike totally doesnt fit you.. you need to buy a new one or risk injury... get an S-Works while you are at it....."
> 
> Why don't you post your critical measurements, both current bike and body.


Thanks for the suggestion. I already did and the Retul fitter told me the bike was too small even before I got on it. After reading this thread, I don't know that I care to get a bunch of opinions from people who never seen me. Getting advice based on a chart or a random measurement is exactly why I'm replacing my current bike. Thanks!


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## CoTreeHugger (Jun 9, 2012)

Andy Pancroft said:


> Hey Clint, glad you made it to the board!!! Yes, your bike is pretty obviously too small!! Sorry you went through the purchase but, is what it is!! You are best served to always have yourself sized up by a professional prior to making the purchase - anyone that would suggest you purchase based upon a graph or chart shouldn't be dispensing advice!!! Glad you found a good Retul shop - who did you go to?? And, what I was telling you about your stem....80m is WAY too short and does effect your bike's handling. And, the stem being flipped up on the Roubaix is kinda ridiculous - the bikes geometry is so relaxed, you shouldn't have to have the stem flipped up. In both cases, you can eliminate the need by working on your flexibility!! You should be able put your feet together and bend touching the ground with flat palms. If you can't, you need to start working on it!!! Check the pics - my girlfriend has me going to pilates AND yoga and she is the bomb master yoga teacher!!! We were also discussing your cadence - you should be able to maintain 90-95 pretty much throughout your ride, whether rolling at 30 mph on a flat or 11 mph on a 6% grade. If you can't, you need to re-gear the bike until you find the legs for it!!
> 
> Finally, if you do decide to just build an entire bike and don't use your current components, do either roll with DA or Red. Campy has always been WAY behind in technology and has never been able to get it right - only thing they do right is wheels which is why I train on the Racing Zeros, they're good, cheap training wheels!! And, frankly, putting Campy on anything other than an Italian frame is lame!!! LOL
> 
> ...


Hey Andy,
I'm going in Monday for a complete fit at Retul in Denver. Guy is going to hook me up with a different gear setup to a compact so I can keep my rpm up. He also agreed with you and suggested SRAM Red. BTW, I told him you suggested I get a fitting and the two of you apparently race together or against one another? In an event, I am pretty excited to get on the right bike. Know that I'm younger than you but, I don't think I can get to be able to put my hands flat on the ground. Where can I get the Bod Pod info? I see you finished the ride in the hills yesterday. Wow! And, I will get rid of the pro jersey. haha

Hope to ride again.


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

CoTreeHugger said:


> Hey Andy,
> I'm going in Monday for a complete fit at Retul in Denver. Guy is going to hook me up with a different gear setup to a compact so I can keep my rpm up. He also agreed with you and suggested SRAM Red. BTW, I told him you suggested I get a fitting and the two of you apparently race together or against one another? In an event, I am pretty excited to get on the right bike. Know that I'm younger than you but, I don't think I can get to be able to put my hands flat on the ground. Where can I get the Bod Pod info? I see you finished the ride in the hills yesterday. Wow! And, I will get rid of the pro jersey. haha
> 
> Hope to ride again.


NICE!! I know the folks in town, they will take good care of you!! Once you get fit, start working on your technique!! As we discussed, all the people riding with straight/stiff arms are typically weak and full of poor technique. As I showed you, you should be able to get on the hoods, bend your arms and remove your hands, being able to hold your body in that position for easily a mile while maintaining your SMOOTH cadence - start working on it. Also, to work on your being smooth, you can unclip one foot and pedal with the other, at cadence, for a mile then switch. Or, as I do, ride a fixie on rollers 50 or so miles a week. Do it long enough and you should be able to ride your rollers with no hands!!! Let me know if you need help with anything else and good luck with the fit Monday!!!


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

CoTreeHugger said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I already did and the Retul fitter told me the bike was too small even before I got on it. After reading this thread, I don't know that I care to get a bunch of opinions from people who never seen me. advice based on a chart or a random measurement is exactly why I'm replacing my current bike. Thanks!


EXACTLY!!!!!!!:thumbsup:


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## CoTreeHugger (Jun 9, 2012)

Hey Andy,
Getting pretty excited about Monday! The Retul shop doesn't sell bikes so I went to a shop yesterday and talked with the guys there. The Specialized rep happened to walk into the store as I was there, name was greg and knows you and said to say hello so, Hello! haha
Anyway, we chatted about options for my replacement. He told me that unless I was racing my Roubaix that an SWorks wouldn't really be of much benefit to me. He told me the Expert and Pro were essentially the same bikes and that they have had a number of SL4's coming back. The price of the Pro is pretty cheap so I'm going to go with the SL3 Pro frame and have the DI2 Dura Ace installed. We chatted with the store people and got all the components and wheels ordered so, after I see Retul for proper size, I'm going to bring in the the info and order the frame tomorrow!
And, I bought half dozen Capo jersey's and bibs. No more BMC kits. haha
Oh,any suggestions for gearing?
Thanks again for the help!


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## roox (May 14, 2008)

Hey, your call, your money. Im sure the new bike will rock. Not sure why you wouldn't want to at least post current bike specs, current rider specs and proposed new bike specs, to at least make it a learning experience for other riders, but hey... have fun being vague!





CoTreeHugger said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I already did and the Retul fitter told me the bike was too small even before I got on it. After reading this thread, I don't know that I care to get a bunch of opinions from people who never seen me. Getting advice based on a chart or a random measurement is exactly why I'm replacing my current bike. Thanks!


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

CoTreeHugger said:


> Hey Andy,
> Getting pretty excited about Monday! The Retul shop doesn't sell bikes so I went to a shop yesterday and talked with the guys there. The Specialized rep happened to walk into the store as I was there, name was greg and knows you and said to say hello so, Hello! haha
> Anyway, we chatted about options for my replacement. He told me that unless I was racing my Roubaix that an SWorks wouldn't really be of much benefit to me. He told me the Expert and Pro were essentially the same bikes and that they have had a number of SL4's coming back. The price of the Pro is pretty cheap so I'm going to go with the SL3 Pro frame and have the DI2 Dura Ace installed. We chatted with the store people and got all the components and wheels ordered so, after I see Retul for proper size, I'm going to bring in the the info and order the frame tomorrow!
> And, I bought half dozen Capo jersey's and bibs. No more BMC kits. haha
> ...


Nice!!! I know once properly fitted, you will love the new ride!! Greg is a good guy!! I have the DA Di2 on my race bike and enjoy it. Don't know that it is really necessary, shifting isn't really that much faster or deliberate, if you know how to shift!!?? lol

Good on ya' for the new riding wear!!! 

As for gearing, I run 53/39-11-26 on my Roubaix. But this bike is not really a racer and more of a trainer - REALLY slow to get up to speed but easy to keep it there once to speed!! My Felt is 54/42-11/21. I think you may be best served with a compact 50/34 and 12/28 until you get to the point you can keep your cadence in the low to mid 90's!!??

Also, don't forget to look into the Bod Pod. I did mine in March and was just south of 8% body fat which, was about 2% higher than I thought I was. It's good to have an accurate baseline so you know where you need to be and so that you can put together a good plan to get there!!!
Keep me in the loop with your progress!!! I PM'd you my number!!!


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

roox said:


> Hey, your call, your money. Im sure the new bike will rock. Not sure why you wouldn't want to at least post current bike specs, current rider specs and proposed new bike specs, to at least make it a learning experience for other riders, but hey... have fun being vague!


Maybe he doesn't want to get any nonsense from Trollworthy!!!??:cryin:


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Andy Pancroft said:


> Maybe he doesn't want to get any nonsense from Trollworthy!!!??:cryin:


Candy, you are projecting again. You are flatly wrong and it is you that have been trolling and shamelessly providing false information throughout this thread. *The Specialized rep completely agreed with my comments which are in opposition to what you wrote.*
Hopefully you aren't even too dumb to understand that...lol. 

The other thing OP and others considering a S-works bike is...all Sworks framesets are Specialized version of PF30 which not only is more problematic for Campy owners but also require adapters to run popular Shimano cranks. The Pro is available with threaded BB and is plug and play for all Campy cranks and perhaps even more popular DuraAce and Ultegra cranks.


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

Clint, 
Good call ignoring the nonsense on this forum!! As usual, Trollworthy has made my point about his talking out of his a$$!!! Suggesting the S-Works is not avail on GXP LMFAO!!!!!!!

D-Bag!!!!!

Just go ahead and get with the Retul people and let them get you on track!! Listening to armchair riders who have likely been riding a few years and, judging by the cheesy furniture in the background, have limited resources to actually purchase what they really pine for - Super Record, S-Works, etc. - and just want to project their nonsense and the "Knowledge" they have read and gleaned from trolling bike shops and really hope people infer they know what they speak of!!

But, Trollworthy is correct, as always....S-Works is not avail in GXP!!!!!

Douche!!!!


ROFLMAO


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

roadworthy said:


> Candy, you are projecting again. You are flatly wrong and it is you that have been trolling and shamelessly providing false information throughout this thread. *The Specialized rep completely agreed with my comments which are in opposition to what you wrote.*
> Hopefully you aren't even too dumb to understand that...lol.
> 
> The other thing OP and others considering a S-works bike is...all Sworks framesets are Specialized version of PF30 which not only is more problematic for Campy owners but also require adapters to run popular Shimano cranks. The Pro is available with threaded BB and is plug and play for all Campy cranks and perhaps even more popular DuraAce and Ultegra cranks.


Really...REALLY!?!?!?!! 

Douche!!! LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## CoTreeHugger (Jun 9, 2012)

As I have no interest in falling into this debacle I will say only this before I leave this forum because of the crap that seems to spew. I met a rider who gave me advice. I did some research and concluded that his suggested his information is correct that Retul is probably the authority for fitting. The people at Retul recognized as a cyclist and competitive racer and personally knew the person who suggested I go there. I went to a Specialized dealer and ran into the Specialized factory tech. He also personally knew the person who suggested I check on a new bike. With that information I have decided to replace my current bike and I place much weight on the knowledge of the person who gave me this information, Andy. As for the others who wish to throw a wrench into the works and dilute things I thank you for your interest and input but as Andy has pointed out in the post that demonstrates that the SWorks is available in a threaded bottom bracket some are just throwing around inaccurate information. So thanks for allowing me to post here but I'm going to leave this forum because of the crap that seems to be the norm in online forums these days. I came here for information and got nothing but grief. Good luck!


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

CoTreeHugger said:


> As I have no interest in falling into this debacle I will say only this before I leave this forum because of the crap that seems to spew. I met a rider who gave me advice. I did some research and concluded that his suggested his information is correct that Retul is probably the authority for fitting. The people at Retul recognized as a cyclist and competitive racer and personally knew the person who suggested I go there. I went to a Specialized dealer and ran into the Specialized factory tech. He also personally knew the person who suggested I check on a new bike. With that information I have decided to replace my current bike and I place much weight on the knowledge of the person who gave me this information, Andy. As for the others who wish to throw a wrench into the works and dilute things I thank you for your interest and input but as Andy has pointed out in the post that demonstrates that the SWorks is available in a threaded bottom bracket some are just throwing around inaccurate information. So thanks for allowing me to post here but I'm going to leave this forum because of the crap that seems to be the norm in online forums these days. I came here for information and got nothing but grief. Good luck!


Clint,
Sorry this was your experience on this forum but, as you mentioned, this is the norm when you get a d-bag behind a keyboard!!!! LOL You have my number. Let me know if you need anything else!!! Also, if you need help setting up your Bod Pod or getting in touch with Bill Phillips or Matt Fitzgerald, let me know and I will ring them up. Also, I can ring up Tyler Hamilton and see if we can get you on his roster you'll have to head out to Boulder to see him!!!

Enjoy the remainder of your weekend!!!!

A


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## bernithebiker (Sep 26, 2011)

Just to try to calm things down a bit, I would say that I was not aware that Sworks can be had in threaded BB. Mine is 2012, and BB30, and I was never offered any alternative.

(Europe).


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

Andy Pancroft said:


> And, trash the pro kits - nothing screams Fred like someone wearing a pro kit!!! LOL


Yeah... just going to point out this this is silly.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Andy Pancroft said:


> Really...REALLY!?!?!?!!
> 
> Douche!!! LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!


Candy, that's called a kluge.
What's that sound? More money flying out of your wallet...lol.
Better get a second job.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

bernithebiker said:


> Just to try to calm things down a bit, I would say that I was not aware that Sworks can be had in threaded BB. Mine is 2012, and BB30, and I was never offered any alternative.
> 
> (Europe).


Hi Bern,
No Sworks bike is available with a threaded BB. Again, why the Pro is a practical alternative because it is available with threaded BB...what I built up. Any Campy equipped Sworks you see has some level of adapter...either Campy's adapters which have to be _modified_ because Specialized version of PF30 is narrower than standard...or a C-bear sleeve which is a press in sleeve that allows Campy's cups to be threaded to the sleeve which is a more robust solution....latter being spendy.
Basically what the C-bear sleeve does is convert a Sworks frame to threaded BSA. There goes the 150 gram weight savings...lol.


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

roadworthy said:


> Hi Bern,
> No Sworks bike is available with a threaded BB. Again, why the Pro is a practical alternative because it is available with threaded BB...what I built up. Any Campy equipped Sworks you see has some level of adapter...either Campy's adapters which have to be _modified_ because Specialized version of PF30 is narrower than standard...or a C-bear sleeve which is a press in sleeve that allows Campy's cups to be threaded to the sleeve which is a more robust solution....latter being spendy.
> Basically what the C-bear sleeve does is convert a Sworks frame to threaded BSA. There goes the 150 gram weight savings...lol.


Really....REALLY!?!?!?!?!?!

Ahhhh, I figured you would have to wait until your LBS opened so you could call them and then reply!!! LOL First, you should find a LBS with more knowledgable staff and a more seasoned Spec rep!!! Just because you can't see the air, does it not exist!!??

Well, the joy of racing for a Specialized factory sponsored team!!!! I'm not sure if I enjoy this because you continue to spew and disseminate inaccuracies and need to be corrected or just to make certain people here don't continue to fall for your nonsense...

I'm sure your reply will be, "Specialized is wrong" - douche!!!


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

And, just in case you try to convince people socks are available only in pairs of two, thought I would nip that next point in the bud!!!! ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!:cryin:


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Andy Pancroft said:


> Really....REALLY!?!?!?!?!?!
> 
> Ahhhh, I figured you would have to wait until your LBS opened so you could call them and then reply!!! LOL First, you should find a LBS with more knowledgable staff and a more seasoned Spec rep!!! Just because you can't see the air, does it not exist!!??
> 
> ...


Candy, I have worked on a fair amount of Sworks bikes and never seen one...Roubaix, Tarmac or Venge. I guess like your 34" inseam and foot of seat post on your 61, your wacky set up matches your BB...lol. Maybe you are from the Twilight Zone? Btw, do you wear pumps on your bike?...would explain exceeding min insertion on your seat post...lol. Go on now, take a picture like a good boy.

As to the point of this thread about a performance delta between Pro and Sworks...pure rubbish...and that was the signature question the OP posed and confirmed by the Spesh rep. Perhaps you should give your Spesh rep buddy a call if you don't believe the response in the thread. Of course he loves gullible guys like you....hear you go...you need one of these...haha. 

As to socks...now we are onto a subject you may have some talent at. I notice a high correlatation betweeen technically dumb guys like you and high fashion sense...hence your name Candy. ..kind of a sweet guy.


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

roadworthy said:


> Candy, I have worked on a fair amount of Sworks bikes and never seen one...Roubaix, Tarmac or Venge. I guess like your 34" inseam and foot of seat post on your 61, your wacky set up matches your BB...lol. Maybe you are from the Twilight Zone? Btw, do you wear pumps on your bike?...would explain exceeding min insertion on your seat post...lol. Go on now, take a picture like a good boy.
> 
> As to the point of this thread about a performance delta between Pro and Sworks...pure rubbish...and that was the signature question the OP posed and confirmed by the Spesh rep. Perhaps you should give your Spesh rep buddy a call if you don't believe the response in the thread. Of course he loves gullible guys like you....hear you go...you need one of these...haha.
> 
> As to socks...now we are onto a subject you may have some talent at. I notice a high correlatation betweeen technically dumb guys like you and high fashion sense...hence your name Candy. ..kind of a sweet guy.


LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!! ROFLMFAO!!!!!!! LOLOLOLOLOLLL:cryin:

Don't think you said "You've never seen one"!!?? You said....They were not made"!!!! Douche!!!! I can't believe you are such an accomplished rider and didn't know something so simple!?!?!?!?! LOLOLOLOLOL!!!

Hey, I did 140 miles Friday, climbed little better than 10k on some 13 and 15% grades!!! Did a quick 125 for Sat recovery!!!! Where do you find time to ride all those centuries and races when you are working on so many bikes!!?? Here, mark this last ride and let me know when you are ready (this would be an easy recovery ride to make it easy on you) and let's go ride. I'll wear my black pumps!!!

http://app.strava.com/activities/10589372


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Andy Pancroft said:


> LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!! ROFLMFAO!!!!!!! LOLOLOLOLOLLL:cryin:
> 
> Don't think you said "You've never seen one"!!?? You said....They were not made"!!!! Douche!!!! I can't believe you are such an accomplished rider and didn't know something so simple!?!?!?!?! LOLOLOLOLOL!!!
> 
> ...


Candy,
With all that training, I am going to watch for you in the tour 'la' france this year. 
You will be a hit with all the 'fellas' in your pumps.
Now post some more pics and spectacular accomplishments to further obfuscate the fact you are flat wrong in your response to the OP which started this debacle.


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## ralph1 (May 20, 2006)

So much anger!!!!!

You have entertained me to say the least, for that I thank you.

You have also shown the other members of this forum what a pair of right wankers you are, this BB, that BB, there is no xyz BB.....no-one gives a rat's hairy freckle.:mad2:

:idea:But please keep up with the dribble you are both spewing, ......show us all how big you dicks really are, you are impressing me no end.

Have a lovely day.

cheers

Pete


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

roadworthy said:


> Candy,
> With all that training, I am going to watch for you in the tour 'la' france this year.
> You will be a hit with all the 'fellas' in your pumps.
> Now post some more pics and spectacular accomplishments to further obfuscate the fact you are flat wrong in your response to the OP which started this debacle.


You know I'm gonna!!!! LOL


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

Okay TW..been fun but, gotta get out for a ride!! So, gonna get in a quick 75 on the fixie!!! And, I know you'll love my fixie...pink with pink Spokey Dokes!!!! And, I think it has a threaded BB!!?? Not sure but, I think I can provide pretty verifiable proff rather than spewing nonsense!!! Love ya - Douche!!


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Andy Pancroft said:


> You know I'm gonna!!!! LOL


You win brother. I can't top that. That was very good.
You just dropped me. 
Cheers.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

ralph1 said:


> So much anger!!!!!
> 
> You have entertained me to say the least, for that I thank you.
> 
> ...


Pete,
In good fun...arguing about silly bicycles...
It went on a bit longer than expected...credit to Andy for being a good sport and posting the winning picture...lol.
Cheers.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Andy Pancroft said:


> Okay TW..been fun but, gotta get out for a ride!! So, gonna get in a quick 75 on the fixie!!! And, I know you'll love my fixie...pink with pink Spokey Dokes!!!! And, I think it has a threaded BB!!?? Not sure but, I think I can provide pretty verifiable proff rather than spewing nonsense!!! Love ya - Douche!!


Sweet bike. Custom?...Ti?


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## ralph1 (May 20, 2006)

Yes, good to see both of you have kissed and made up, and I want that fixie!!

I just hope the OP will be back to this forum instead of being turned off it, so much knowledge on here, that's why I keep coming back, oh, and for the entertainment.

No really I want that fixie, I will be round to get it, just tracing your IP address now, to reverse ping you, start my flux capacitor and I will be around......it will be a blur of agressive salmon, not pink!!

cheers

Pete


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

ralph1 said:


> Yes, good to see both of you have kissed and made up, and I want that fixie!!
> 
> I just hope the OP will be back to this forum instead of being turned off it, so much knowledge on here, that's why I keep coming back, oh, and for the entertainment.
> 
> ...


Pete,
Believe you are a bit late on Andy's fixie. Since it is my size, I have hacked into the nearest drone and Google Earth, have a bead on his garage and will remove it this evening.
Sorry about that.


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## ralph1 (May 20, 2006)

But it will fit me, and not you. Look out your window....see that white van, that has been there around 10 minutes now!!!


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## roox (May 14, 2008)

Andy Pancroft said:


> Okay TW..been fun but, gotta get out for a ride!! So, gonna get in a quick 75 on the fixie!!! And, I know you'll love my fixie...pink with pink Spokey Dokes!!!! And, I think it has a threaded BB!!?? Not sure but, I think I can provide pretty verifiable proff rather than spewing nonsense!!! Love ya - Douche!!


Seriously one of the nicest fixies i have seen... I would ride the hell out of that.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

ralph1 said:


> But it will fit me, and not you. Look out your window....see that white van, that has been there around 10 minutes now!!!


Oh oh. Well at least let me ride it once you get bored of it.


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## CoTreeHugger (Jun 9, 2012)

Please, don't want to hear any grief and I came back just to share and thank everyone who contributed. Got my size rec. this morning from Retul and ran to the shop. Got this sweet 58cm Sworks and a 20 percent discount on top of the sale price thanks to Andy! Have an appt for Wed for have it fit.


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

ralph1 said:


> So much anger!!!!!
> 
> You have entertained me to say the least, for that I thank you.
> 
> ...


Back off or, we'll call truce and direct our combined anger AT YOU!!!!


roadworthy said:


> Pete,
> In good fun...arguing about silly bicycles...
> It went on a bit longer than expected...credit to Andy for being a good sport and posting the winning picture...lol.
> Cheers.


Truce!!!!:idea:


CoTreeHugger said:


> Please, don't want to hear any grief and I came back just to share and thank everyone who contributed. Got my size rec. this morning from Retul and ran to the shop. Got this sweet 58cm Sworks and a 20 percent discount on top of the sale price thanks to Andy! Have an appt for Wed for have it fit.


Clint, Glad to help and that you got the deal!!! Let us know how it goes after your Retul!!!


ralph1 said:


> Yes, good to see both of you have kissed and made up, and I want that fixie!!
> 
> I just hope the OP will be back to this forum instead of being turned off it, so much knowledge on here, that's why I keep coming back, oh, and for the entertainment.
> 
> ...





ralph1 said:


> But it will fit me, and not you. Look out your window....see that white van, that has been there around 10 minutes now!!!


Now, for all you beotches thinking you're coming for the fixie....I have nine pounds of sheer terror that says you won't get anywhere near it!!!!


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## scottma (May 18, 2012)

CoTreeHugger said:


> Please, don't want to hear any grief and I came back just to share and thank everyone who contributed. Got my size rec. this morning from Retul and ran to the shop. Got this sweet 58cm Sworks and a 20 percent discount on top of the sale price thanks to Andy! Have an appt for Wed for have it fit.


Congrats on a sweet bike! I love the 2011 Red/White paint scheme. I have a 2011 SL2 Comp with a similar look. You have the Dura Ace tubeless wheels. Should be really nice.


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## ralph1 (May 20, 2006)

Nice bike, now go out and ride it like you stole it!!

Andy, I hate to be the one to tell you but your dog has no eyes!!!

Do they come in carbon?
how much does your bike weigh?

cheers

Pete


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

ralph1 said:


> Nice bike, now go out and ride it like you stole it!!
> 
> Andy, I hate to be the one to tell you but your dog has no eyes!!!
> 
> ...


I'm guessing that was directed at me??? The frame on my fixie is a Felt Brougham - bought the frame (As I do with all my rides) and designed and built it up. Not avail - at least not that frame - in Cf. Mine weighs in at 19.2 lbs!! It rolls smooth!! I went out for 68 miles in it today. Issue for me is all the hills here. Having only one constant gear (46/13) sometimes makes hills a PITA, going up AND down!!!


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## ralph1 (May 20, 2006)

No it was in relation to this clip.

Shit Cyclists Say - YouTube


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Andy Pancroft said:


> I'm guessing that was directed at me??? The frame on my fixie is a Felt Brougham - bought the frame (As I do with all my rides) and designed and built it up. Not avail - at least not that frame - in Cf. Mine weighs in at 19.2 lbs!! It rolls smooth!! I went out for 68 miles in it today. Issue for me is all the hills here. Having only one constant gear (46/13) sometimes makes hills a PITA, going up AND down!!!


Andy...curious about the wheels and hubs on your fixie? What kind of material are they?...spokes look a bit unusual...can you provide any info on them?
Sweet bike.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

CoTreeHugger said:


> Please, don't want to hear any grief and I came back just to share and thank everyone who contributed. Got my size rec. this morning from Retul and ran to the shop. Got this sweet 58cm Sworks and a 20 percent discount on top of the sale price thanks to Andy! Have an appt for Wed for have it fit.


It doesn't get any better and you are going to love it. I will be interested in your Retul fit as well....to see how much they change your handlebar position. Reason is...I ride the same frame size and also have about the same leg length based upon the saddle height you show. I will be interested to learn _how _the Retul fit process assesses your flexibility and adjusts your _handlebar position _accordingly.

As time permits, please share your result if you would and congrats on the bike.


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## dcorn (Sep 1, 2011)

Specialized S-Works Tarmac SL3 2011 Frameset | R&A Cycles

Read the description.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

dcorn said:


> Specialized S-Works Tarmac SL3 2011 Frameset | R&A Cycles
> 
> Read the description.


The subject is new bikes dcorn. Actually, if you go way back to the beginning and read what the OP asked  his inquiry was about SL4 bikes as in new = 2012 not 2011. Yes, Andy has a threaded BB on his 2011 S-works SL3 Roubaix, just like the Tarmac you reference which is SL3 and not SL4.
I am pretty sure...unless somebody has an inside connection with Specialized for 2012, SL4 Sworks bikes are all Spesh's version of PF30 and SL4 Pro bikes are all BB30. No threaded BB's. If somebody can produce documents to the contrary, please post.
Btw, my 2012 Roubaix SL3 Pro is threaded...one of the reasons I chose the Roubaix Pro. To my knowledge the 2012 Roubaix Sworks is NOT available with threaded BB..only a narrow PF30 which is harder to mount Campy cranks to...but can be done with C-bear sleeve.

Have a read of Specialized S-works bikes on their website for 2012...all models: Roubaix, Tarmac and Venge. As discussed, I have not seen _any_ threaded BB's for Sworks bikes for 2012. If you can locate a 2012 Sworks bike with threaded BB or can find a threaded BB reference on Spesh's website for 2012, please post.


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## ralph1 (May 20, 2006)

Oh god here we go again, ruler out.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

ralph1 said:


> Oh god here we go again, ruler out.


no ruler bro. Just the facts. If you are looking for a 2012 Sworks bike with threaded BB, I don't believe you will find one. Also some guys are partial to PF30 or BB30 which further separates the Pro and Sworks for 2012.
If you can prove to the contrary, please post.
BB config matters for some people. In particular it matters mostly to Campy guys.


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

roadworthy said:


> Andy...curious about the wheels and hubs on your fixie? What kind of material are they?...spokes look a bit unusual...can you provide any info on them?
> Sweet bike.


H Plus Son Formation FAce 42mm alum hoops, DT Swiss Comp spokes and Soma Somax track hubs!!


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Andy Pancroft said:


> H Plus Son Formation FAce 42mm alum hoops, DT Swiss Comp spokes and Soma Somax track hubs!!


The wheels look cool. Can you explain those knob like widgets on the spokes? I haven't seen those before.
Lastly, I don't ride fixed...have you ever had a drop bar on the bike and if so do you simply prefer the bullhorns?...ever miss the drops when out riding?


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

roadworthy said:


> The subject is new bikes dcorn. Actually, if you go way back to the beginning and read what the OP asked  his inquiry was about SL4 bikes as in new = 2012 not 2011. Yes, Andy has a threaded BB on his 2011 S-works SL3 Roubaix, just like the Tarmac you reference which is SL3 and not SL4.
> I am pretty sure...unless somebody has an inside connection with Specialized for 2012, SL4 Sworks bikes are all Spesh's version of PF30 and SL4 Pro bikes are all BB30. No threaded BB's. If somebody can produce documents to the contrary, please post.
> Btw, my 2012 Roubaix SL3 Pro is threaded...one of the reasons I chose the Roubaix Pro. To my knowledge the 2012 Roubaix Sworks is NOT available with threaded BB..only a narrow PF30 which is harder to mount Campy cranks to...but can be done with C-bear sleeve.
> 
> Have a read of Specialized S-works bikes on their website for 2012...all models: Roubaix, Tarmac and Venge. As discussed, I have not seen _any_ threaded BB's for Sworks bikes for 2012. If you can locate a 2012 Sworks bike with threaded BB or can find a threaded BB reference on Spesh's website for 2012, please post.


I DO have an inside track to Spec and...that is correct...SL4 S-Works is NOT avail with threaded BB!!!!


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## Andy Pancroft (Jul 15, 2011)

roadworthy said:


> The wheels look cool. Can you explain those knob like widgets on the spokes? I haven't seen those before.
> Lastly, I don't ride fixed...have you ever had a drop bar on the bike and if so do you simply prefer the bullhorns?...ever miss the drops when out riding?


Like the bullhorns!!! The "Knobs" are spokey dokes!!! Make LOTS of noise!! Guess you have already figured, I like to be annoying!!!!  And, they add a bit of safety!!


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Andy Pancroft said:


> I DO have an inside track to Spec and...that is correct...SL4 S-Works is NOT avail with threaded BB!!!!


The future will be interesting on this Andy...what direction Specialized takes moving forward. Spesh eliminated threaded BB's on the SL4 bikes for 2012 however maintained it for the SL3 Roubaix Pro. If Spesh moves to the SL4 for Roubaix as predicted in 2013, it will be interesting to see if they decide to eliminate threaded BB's across the board. Both Campy and Shimano have not formally embraced integrated BB's without adaptors. So we are at cross roads really with BB design in the industry.
Further...even within integrated BB's there are two schools as to which is best...PF30 versus BB30. The next 5-10 years will likely see a further shift toward one or the other...or perhaps another interface will emerge. My prediction is... lower manufacturing cost will drive design more in favor of PF30 or the direction of Sworks bikes today including Spesh offroad bikes. Will see.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Andy Pancroft said:


> Like the bullhorns!!! The "Knobs" are spokey dokes!!! Make LOTS of noise!! Guess you have already figured, I like to be annoying!!!!  And, they add a bit of safety!!


Doesn't look like you need drops with that set up!...pretty good fall to the bullhorns.
Never heard of those knob things. Looks like they light up too. 
Thanks...sweet bike.


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## DonDenver (May 30, 2007)

At first it reads like a cat fight; heads back, palms swinging wildly, and then it goes grade school…a final act of loving embrace all punctuated with “lol’s” #embarrassing #lost-cred


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

DonDenver said:


> At first it reads like a cat fight; heads back, palms swinging wildly, and then it goes grade school…a final act of loving embrace all punctuated with “lol’s” #embarrassing #lost-cred


Meanwhile, you bystand idly by with no contribution and then pass judgement with unremarkable comments.
Even worse. 
Some people seek the truth and are willing to course through the mud and find it and others don't want to get dirty and never learn anything. Put that in your signature and you will do yourself a favor.


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## jsedlak (Jun 17, 2008)

Andy Pancroft said:


> That size chart is WAY off!!!! Anybody not sizing you and suggesting that you buy a size based upon figures on a chart knows not of what they speak!!!! I am 6'1", 50 years old and have been racing crits for 30 years!!! I live in Denver and ride a substantial amount of hills - 27k ft of ascent in May!! So, I elected to go with a Roubaix for my daily trainer and leave the F1 for racing (I have raced my Roubaix in certain road races that have some changes in elevation). I ALWAYS have Retul fit done on my bikes - there are several variables that go into fit, far more than just your height. Perfect example...at 6'1", if I went by the suggestion on the chart offered, I would be riding a 58cm. After Retul, my 61cm Roubaix has a significant amount of seatpost exposed!! I am pretty flexible and this 61cm fits me VERY comfortably!!!
> 
> You need to go into a shop, ride a few sizes/bikes and allow a fit professional to guide you!!!!


Curious... what is your inseam?

I'm 6' 2" and ride a 56cm Venge & Allez with no spacers. 33" inseam.


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## DS1239622 (Mar 21, 2007)

6'2" here and riding a 58cm Roubaix. Fits like a glove. Test rode a 56 as well and it just didnt feel right.


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