# Cycleops indoor cycle 400, 410



## SwiftSolo

Anyone have any experience with this system? Input would be appreciated.


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## fdghsrtws

I love the idea of a dedicated indoor cycle that doesn't tie up my road bike, but in the end it would probably be cheaper to get a $500 used bike just for the trainer and buy a Wahoo Kickr....

First look at Wahoo Fitness KICKR ANT+/Bluetooth Smart Trainer with power meter | DC Rainmaker

Chuck


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## king-tony

I had the 300 PT version. It was nice for a season, but I eventually went back to using my bike.


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## serious

I have the CycleOps 300 Pro. The only difference between it and the 400 Pro is the fact that on the 400 Pro the resistance is controlled electronically via the Joule 3.0 bike computer. Everything else is the same.

The electronic control is essential for use with the Virtual Training system, since it will allow automatic control of the resistance as the terrain features change in the Virtual Training system. Frankly I think it is an amazing system, and have some regrets for not going for the 400 Pro. But in Canada the 300 Pro is already very expensive, while the 400 Pro with the Virtual Training system borders on the ridiculous.

Regarding the machine, I absolutely love it. It is well built, stable and the freewheel system provides a very realistic ride feeling. The manual resistance control is really sensitive and you can jump 100 Watts with ½ turn. Once you get used to it, it is excellent. I am not sure how quick the 400 Pro is, since you change the power in 10 Watt increments with the Joule computer (using a joystick). Some complain that resistance increases initially as the “brake pad” heats up, but that is normal for any spin bike. Of course, this is where the 400 Pro shines, since it adjusts automatically to your target power.

CycleOps has free software (Power Agent) that you can use to download activities from the Joule computer and/or create workouts complete with segments of varying duration and power. In the 300 Pro such workouts still require that you manually set the power you want for each segment. In the 400 Pro, the Joule computer will automatically set the target power for each segment. It is an excellent way to do intervals either way. Nevertheless, Power Agent is not a very polished piece of software. While it does provide excellent data and graphs, including with TSS and IF scores, it does not graph TSS over a period of time, hence any ATL, CTL data is not readily available. On the other hand you can load all riding data to TrainingPeaks, MapMyride, Strava, etc. so you can use other software as well.

Overall, I love my 300 Pro, and for me it is superior to a trainer (I have the 1UP USA trainer, btw) and rollers as well. But I love the solid, stable feel of spin bikes in general. Make sure you love spin bikes before investing in the CycleOps system.


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## SwiftSolo

I really appreciate the input.

I sprung for the 410 (400 with virtual training) and so far really like it (2 rides only). The software is a bit difficult initially but really well thought out and support is really good but long waits. I've had a little trouble with the video but they've straightened me out. I've been using the impressive but less spectacular google earth stuff to date. 

These virtual training files with video are huge (upwards of a gig) and take some time to download. Tomorrow I'll ride both the flagstaff climb and the Kona Queen K (for the first time in video). I'm excited to see how well it works. Even the google earth version makes the rides seem far less tedious than my rollers. The quality of the bike is the best I've seen.

I'll have more of a sense of the software in a couple of days.



serious said:


> I have the CycleOps 300 Pro. The only difference between it and the 400 Pro is the fact that on the 400 Pro the resistance is controlled electronically via the Joule 3.0 bike computer. Everything else is the same.
> 
> The electronic control is essential for use with the Virtual Training system, since it will allow automatic control of the resistance as the terrain features change in the Virtual Training system. Frankly I think it is an amazing system, and have some regrets for not going for the 400 Pro. But in Canada the 300 Pro is already very expensive, while the 400 Pro with the Virtual Training system borders on the ridiculous.
> 
> Regarding the machine, I absolutely love it. It is well built, stable and the freewheel system provides a very realistic ride feeling. The manual resistance control is really sensitive and you can jump 100 Watts with ½ turn. Once you get used to it, it is excellent. I am not sure how quick the 400 Pro is, since you change the power in 10 Watt increments with the Joule computer (using a joystick). Some complain that resistance increases initially as the “brake pad” heats up, but that is normal for any spin bike. Of course, this is where the 400 Pro shines, since it adjusts automatically to your target power.
> 
> CycleOps has free software (Power Agent) that you can use to download activities from the Joule computer and/or create workouts complete with segments of varying duration and power. In the 300 Pro such workouts still require that you manually set the power you want for each segment. In the 400 Pro, the Joule computer will automatically set the target power for each segment. It is an excellent way to do intervals either way. Nevertheless, Power Agent is not a very polished piece of software. While it does provide excellent data and graphs, including with TSS and IF scores, it does not graph TSS over a period of time, hence any ATL, CTL data is not readily available. On the other hand you can load all riding data to TrainingPeaks, MapMyride, Strava, etc. so you can use other software as well.
> 
> Overall, I love my 300 Pro, and for me it is superior to a trainer (I have the 1UP USA trainer, btw) and rollers as well. But I love the solid, stable feel of spin bikes in general. Make sure you love spin bikes before investing in the CycleOps system.


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## Doc_D

Congrats... I have a 300 and like it much better than beating the crap out of my expensive road bike on a trainer. It's much more stable when doing serious intervals.


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## SwiftSolo

SwiftSolo said:


> Anyone have any experience with this system? Input would be appreciated.


I did my first virtual ride with video today (the Kona K) on my cycleops 400. It is amazing how easy it is to stay motivated--something my rollers have failed to do unless a specific goal was imminent. This even though this ride goes through a massive straight line hilly wasteland with virtually nothing that could be called scenery.

On this particular ride the video was about 50 yards ahead of the gps and topo so I had to anticipate and downshift a bit early or really suffer. You have to shift one gear at a time. You actually input the gear combinations from your bike but have no ability to dump a bunch by shifting into or out of the large/small ring.

I am currently downloading the Alpes d'Huez (2.4GB) to attempt tomorrow. I rather doubt that my current conditioning will take me to the top but I'll be able to see progress with ongoing attempts. I'll use about 15k of the Kona K for warm up as it looks like the d'Huez ride starts climbing seriously nearly from the beginning.

My point in posting all of this is partially motivated by developing some other 400 riding partners of similar age to race against. Unlike comparing times of outdoor rides, there is no rain or wind to impact results.


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## NJBiker72

Curious what the responses are. I would love to get this. The idea of it replicating your real rides is beyond cool. 

Plus my wife could use it too.


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## serious

Oh boy, it sounds like I should have gone for the 400 Pro and Virtual Training. I am happy enough with the 300 Pro but i can also imagine how cool the 400 with virtual training can be.


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## SwiftSolo

*Update of the cycleops410*



SwiftSolo said:


> Anyone have any experience with this system? Input would be appreciated.


This thing is unbelievably motivating and well thought out. I've downloaded my regular training rides from my garmin (no video) and the trainer shows your progress in the google earth view and duplicates every important element of the ride. I find that the hill climbs are accurate in that I end up using the same gears and experience a minor reduction in the wattage indicated that I generate on the same hills. It is amazingly accurate.

You do need to keep this thing where the room temp can be dropped low and you'll likely need fans if above 60f (I have a heated garage that I turn off the heat and open both the large and small doors about a half hour early). Even then, you will work harder and generate more heat than ever before as you attempt to beat your best effort to date on any particular ride.

The video rides are more interesting / motivating and I will be videoing my regular winter rides on the first couple of sunny days. 

I've attempted the Alpe d'Huez *video* ride a couple of times and failed as it is far too difficult for my current condition. I'll try it again soon as I added a fake lower gear (lower than anything on my road bike). I was able to do some (editing/ smoothing) that should reduce a 17% section that kicks my ass only a couple of k into the ride. It should now show up as about 13% but for a longer distance. I point this out because these two options should allow anyone who is reasonably fit to modify rides enough and cheat with bogus lower gears and "smoothing" until fitness allows unadulterated success. You can easily add and remove gears but you'll want to duplicate your bike for typical training rides.

The entire system requires some patience setting up and learning how to navigate through the software. It is expensive but beats the hell out of having training stuff that becomes drudgery after a few days. The shifting is done by a joy stick on the meter and is convenient but not as convenient as it could be if placed in the normal position. I find it pretty hard in the middle of a really tough section to both stand up and simultaneously grab lower gears because I have to take my right hand off of the hood. 

In the end, these guys have developed a really high quality indoor cycle and the software is amazing. Technical support is a bit slow (and non-existent after hours and weekends) but it is high quality. It's best to leave your call back number. Email works also if it is a minor issue.


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## SwiftSolo

Update:
Cycleops virtual training has added some great features just a couple of days ago. One was the virtual partner (a real virtual partner verses the speed specific partner in Garmin) I can either ride against myself showing my last ride up a particular route or I can download any other riders relative position if they have ridden my rides.

It is a real motivation to have that other rider (you on your last ride) right on your ass all the way up the mountain. There is a strong incentive to keep him from passing. Even without the video, the high quality google earth mode keeps you in touch and anticipating changes in grade before you get there. Another new feature shows a moving graph of upcoming terrain changes to help anticipate terrain changes right before they happen. This is important because the 400 does not shift as fast as your outdoor bike and you really pay the price if you are too slow when shifting into lower gears.

I've had a few problems with the Joule 3 power meter / controller with shifting. Cycleops has been very cooperative with a rapid replacement and they have been great in helping me deal with this friggen windows 8 that regrettably came on my new laptop.

Today we finally have nice weather and I will do / produce my first video filming ride. It is one of my winter training rides (my summer rides are all snowed in). It will be fun to see if the actual ground level visuals on a known ride make it even more motivating (on the next rainy cold day)


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## Doc_D

That sound really awesome. I wish Cycleops offered an upgrade kit for those of us who bought the 300 series a few years ago before this virtual trainer existed.


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## serious

Doc_D said:


> That sound really awesome. I wish Cycleops offered an upgrade kit for those of us who bought the 300 series a few years ago before this virtual trainer existed.


I agree. I have to believe that with proper instructions, it should be feasible to convert, but who knows. Maybe it is not as easy as one would expect.


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## lhs2miler

The 410 sounds like a fantastic bike, but I'm a little concerned about the software complexity. Can I ride it without the virtual aspect too? on some manual mode where i can control the resistance. Maybe even an occasional ride where I don't monitor anything at all?


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## SwiftSolo

You can without any computer connection other than the joule cycle computer. The shifting joy stick acts as a resistance controller when it is used that way. Given the option, I can't imagine wanting to do that however.

Do remember that you have to choose either the "race" or "virtual partner" option instead of the "training" option when you actually want to race.


lhs2miler said:


> The 410 sounds like a fantastic bike, but I'm a little concerned about the software complexity. Can I ride it without the virtual aspect too? on some manual mode where i can control the resistance. Maybe even an occasional ride where I don't monitor anything at all?


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## bbonifac

*setup*

I'm curious to how you guys have the hardware and software setup? 

Are you running off a desktop and then looking at it through a Computer monitor or to a TV?

Currently my trainer setup is a 40" Bravia LCD TV in the garage with a DVD player where I just throw in an old tour DVD and away I go. If I could get away with simply picking up a stand alone desktop I might pull the trigger sooner than later. I have no desire to go from 40" at distance to huddling close to a 23".. 

Thanks for the advice.


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## lhs2miler

*Video in sync?*

Swiftsolo - thanks for your reply. Another question - is it generally in sync? That is, the video / hills and the resistance?

thanks again,
bill


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## SwiftSolo

I have my computer in my office and have run a HDMI and 2 usb cables to my garage where I use my indoor cycle and virtual training. The large tv screen is nice and the cool garage (with a large fan) is pretty important (for me).


bbonifac said:


> I'm curious to how you guys have the hardware and software setup?
> 
> Are you running off a desktop and then looking at it through a Computer monitor or to a TV?
> 
> Currently my trainer setup is a 40" Bravia LCD TV in the garage with a DVD player where I just throw in an old tour DVD and away I go. If I could get away with simply picking up a stand alone desktop I might pull the trigger sooner than later. I have no desire to go from 40" at distance to huddling close to a 23"..
> 
> Thanks for the advice.


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## SwiftSolo

It is very much in sync. Google Earth does have some small abnormalities in elevation (small terrain humps where none exists). If you "smooth" these humps with the software you will eliminate a lot of unnecessary shifting however that process tends to make climbs start just a bit earlier and last just a bit longer than reality.

It would be great is we could choose to only smooth certain segments. The software is generally really accurate and what I've described would not be noticible on a ride that you have limited experience on. If you have a favorite training ride that you do endlessly and know every bump, you will notice the need to shift sometimes where that need does not exists in reality (unless you "smooth").



lhs2miler said:


> Swiftsolo - thanks for your reply. Another question - is it generally in sync? That is, the video / hills and the resistance?
> 
> thanks again,
> bill


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## lhs2miler

*Setting up the 410 Pro*

So, I've already emailed customer support about this, but it's a weekend and maybe someone will reply here. 

I leaped for the 410 pro, and set it up this weekend. Unfortunately, I have no resistance whatsoever! I have synced the Joule with the indoor cycle, but i can't get any resistance on the thing. There's also a small rattle, that is likely related. It's brand new from clever training... any tips? What sensors am i supposed to be connected to?

Thanks in advance for any help. You can email me at bylundb at yahoo dot cm and I'll reply with my cell if you're willing!

Thanks a bunch!
~Billy

Of smaller issues - the virtual training software is struggling with any Google 3D video, and there is no sound within any of the virtual training software.... 

I hate electronics, but I'm hopeful this will be great once set up.


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## SwiftSolo

Do you have the bike plugged in? I knows this sounds obvious but it wasn't to me based on the instructions. The pin plug plugs in under the rear wheel just above the "v" stand.


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## lhs2miler

*No luck....*



SwiftSolo said:


> Do you have the bike plugged in? I knows this sounds obvious but it wasn't to me based on the instructions. The pin plug plugs in under the rear wheel just above the "v" stand.


Plugged in, and yes, the instructions are poor on that.

Did you have to adjust the flywheel at all? how close does the break pad sit to the wheel ? Mine is just barely touching....


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## lhs2miler

So i think i figured it out! You have to enter in a target power to provide resistance, right? I think it starts with target power of 0. It's too late for me to get sweaty now, I'll try first thing tomorrow. 

Does the break constantly make a little noise adjusting while you ride?


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## SwiftSolo

I've always used mine with virtual training and it adjusts the brake automatically according to the gradient.

the good news is that while their support is only available during regular working hours, they are extremely good and will have you sorted out quickly.

Good luck


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## SwiftSolo

lhs, did you get set up and going?
I think you're going to really like this thing when you get going with virtual training. I find it interesting, fast and easy and I'll always prefer it when the weather is marginal. You do need a big fan even if it is in a cool garage.

It did take a while to sort through some issues (mostly with windows 8).


lhs2miler said:


> So i think i figured it out! You have to enter in a target power to provide resistance, right? I think it starts with target power of 0. It's too late for me to get sweaty now, I'll try first thing tomorrow.
> 
> Does the break constantly make a little noise adjusting while you ride?


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## lhs2miler

*Up and working!*

I got it working - I've done Gatineau park twice now, a 26 mile video ride. It's pretty sweet. The downloading hawaii's kona ride. I'm still getting used to the shifting on this small little dial. I think some of my improvement in speed will come as i learn to shift to the right gear for the virtual ride. Today was bright and sunny, despite pouring outside 

I'm lhs2miler on the cycleops program as well, if you want to compare notes. I've got some work to do. I averaged 190 watts for the Gatineau ride.

I'm wondering whether the indoor cycle was worth it over the indoor virtual trainer.... seems like most are using that. What's the main differences? I think I'm keeping this IC400 though, I'm pretty stoked about it, just trying to get used to the shifting.

~lhs2miler



SwiftSolo said:


> lhs, did you get set up and going?
> I think you're going to really like this thing when you get going with virtual training. I find it interesting, fast and easy and I'll always prefer it when the weather is marginal. You do need a big fan even if it is in a cool garage.
> 
> It did take a while to sort through some issues (mostly with windows 8).


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## SwiftSolo

the shifting becomes easier as you get used to paying attention to the moving graph in the lower right corner. 

I've become more addicted to this thing with time. It is quick, easy, and interesting to get in a workout when it's dark or wet outside. I've never used a trainer (always rollers) but can't imagine standing and sprinting on my SL3 locked into one.

I'm riding only my local summer rides and some rides I do when I go to Solvang to ride as I can compare them with real world. The exception is that I can't duplicate the altitude of my mountain climbs but use the power calculator to determine the approximate difference.

Let's stay in touch. p


lhs2miler said:


> I got it working - I've done Gatineau park twice now, a 26 mile video ride. It's pretty sweet. The downloading hawaii's kona ride. I'm still getting used to the shifting on this small little dial. I think some of my improvement in speed will come as i learn to shift to the right gear for the virtual ride. Today was bright and sunny, despite pouring outside
> 
> I'm lhs2miler on the cycleops program as well, if you want to compare notes. I've got some work to do. I averaged 190 watts for the Gatineau ride.
> 
> I'm wondering whether the indoor cycle was worth it over the indoor virtual trainer.... seems like most are using that. What's the main differences? I think I'm keeping this IC400 though, I'm pretty stoked about it, just trying to get used to the shifting.
> 
> ~lhs2miler


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## adammendoza

*The power reistance is on hard and constant.*

I just bought the CycleOps Indoor bike 410. I read that someone was not getting any resistance. I have the opposite problem. The resistance on my bike seems to been always on and is constant. I did the Hwy 1 course and it feels like uphill even on a steep downhill. I also tried it manual and no change at all. The lowest setting I can get is 30. Hill is 0%. I change the power up and nothing seems to change. 

Also, my Joule 3.0 firmware is 15.090. Is that the latest? is not what's the URL to update it?

Any thoughts? Thanks!


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## lhs2miler

*adjusting joule*

My unit was the one with no resistance... for me it was a matter of using the Joule 3.0 correctly. In manual mode you have to adjust the target power, not any gear. In virtual training mode you have to adjust the gears. Any luck?



adammendoza said:


> I just bought the CycleOps Indoor bike 410. I read that someone was not getting any resistance. I have the opposite problem. The resistance on my bike seems to been always on and is constant. I did the Hwy 1 course and it feels like uphill even on a steep downhill. I also tried it manual and no change at all. The lowest setting I can get is 30. Hill is 0%. I change the power up and nothing seems to change.
> 
> Also, my Joule 3.0 firmware is 15.090. Is that the latest? is not what's the URL to update it?
> 
> Any thoughts? Thanks!


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## SwiftSolo

Did you guys get everything worked out? It took a while but mine is working flawlessly and I have 9 of my favorite summer rides that I choose from on any day that the weather stinks or I simply run out of daylight. 

I really like this thing as it takes the boredom out of indoor cycling.


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## lhs2miler

*Working!*

Yes! Got it working and love it! Still have to get used to shifting, but it's absolutely great!



SwiftSolo said:


> lhs, did you get set up and going?
> I think you're going to really like this thing when you get going with virtual training. I find it interesting, fast and easy and I'll always prefer it when the weather is marginal. You do need a big fan even if it is in a cool garage.
> 
> It did take a while to sort through some issues (mostly with windows 8).


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## SwiftSolo

Good to hear that everything is working well.

After three months, I too am completely sold. I've loaded several of my favorite summer rides (from my garmin 800). The thing that has shocked me is the accuracy. 

I really got to test it recently. I rode a common training ride which is a series of 5 spaced steep hills (on the 410). Each hill is about 6 minutes in duration and spaced from a half mile to two miles apart. Yesterday, I was able to ride those same hills on my Tarmac and found both the perceived effort and the wattage to correlate accurately. The difference is that my time was a bit slower, my average heart rate, and my average wattage for each "lap" was lower on the 410. Even with a big fan going, I'm unable to carry the heart rate on the 410 that I can carry outside. This is also reflected correspondingly in power output. I've experienced the same phenomena on my rollers and can't figure out why.


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## SwiftSolo

I have the 410 in my garage with a medium flat screen tv set immediately in front of it on a table / workbench. My computer is upstairs in my home office and has two long usb and an hdmi cable running to the garage. The usbs are for the mouse and the ant+ stick and the hdmi to duplicate my computer screen. I have a large fan on a stand that is set behind the TV several feet that blows the majority of its' air over the top of the tv. The fan is a must--even in a cool garage.


June585 said:


> I'm curious to how you guys have the hardware and software setup?


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## adammendoza

I discovered that my bike was hit in the flywheel during transit and that caused it to push against the resistance pad harder than it should. 

That bike had a bent post so Saris sent another bike but the second bike also has a similar issue but not that bad. Is there a way to calibrate it? I'm having second thoughts about this bike. It's very expensive for equipment that does not seem too precise. I used a route that I recorded from Vineman ironman. I rode for about an hour and only travelled 12 miles??? The ride is not realistic. 
These bikes do not seem to be designed for end users. Not easy to set up. 





lhs2miler said:


> My unit was the one with no resistance... for me it was a matter of using the Joule 3.0 correctly. In manual mode you have to adjust the target power, not any gear. In virtual training mode you have to adjust the gears. Any luck?


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## lhs2miler

*Realistic?*

Sorry you're experience has been worse than mine... I had a difficult time initially setting up, but now I'm actually growing to like it a lot. In retrospect, I may have considered the Virtual Trainer rather than the Indoor Cycle, but I really do like the IC410. I generally cover what I would outside -- 18-20 miles an hour on hilly roads. It's not as realistic as riding outdoors, but it's the closest thing available right now. The biggest difference I notice is that the speed changes quickly and drastically sometimes as I accelerate / deaccelerate, by 4-5mph at a time, rather than smaller increments like my outdoor spedometer. To some extent, the power changes are the same. Maybe a future software update will smooth these out better. Let me know what you decide... I'm curious.



adammendoza said:


> I discovered that my bike was hit in the flywheel during transit and that caused it to push against the resistance pad harder than it should.
> 
> That bike had a bent post so Saris sent another bike but the second bike also has a similar issue but not that bad. Is there a way to calibrate it? I'm having second thoughts about this bike. It's very expensive for equipment that does not seem too precise. I used a route that I recorded from Vineman ironman. I rode for about an hour and only travelled 12 miles??? The ride is not realistic.
> These bikes do not seem to be designed for end users. Not easy to set up.


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## ianeknox

serious said:


> CycleOps has free software (Power Agent) that you can use to download activities from the Joule computer and/or create workouts complete with segments of varying duration and power. In the 300 Pro such workouts still require that you manually set the power you want for each segment. In the 400 Pro, the Joule computer will automatically set the target power for each segment.


I have the 300 Pro, with the Joule 2.0, and while the software allows you to design workouts of varying interval lengths, with target power and or power ranges - it doesn't actually display the target power for any given interval, which is incredibly annoying. It seems like it would be such an easy change to make to the software.

I'm fine without electronic resistance, but for over $2K, I'm kind of shocked that you can't actually program an interval workout into the Joule and have it tell you what the goal is for each step. Especially since you can't just replace the Joule with a Garmin 910 or something along those lines, since it won't sync.

To be clear - I'm incredibly happy with the actual bike itself. Smooth ride, sturdy, solid build quality, etc. It's top notch. I just feel a bit ripped off - I was very clearly given the impression that the only difference between the 300 and the 400 was the electronic resistance. To find out I can't pre-program intervals workouts and just follow the computer (similar to running intervals with a Garmin), it's just a bit disappointing.

So.....if anyone is still deciding - I certainly wish I'd gone with the 400, or at least known this going in.


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## serious

ianeknox said:


> I have the 300 Pro, with the Joule 2.0, and while the software allows you to design workouts of varying interval lengths, with target power and or power ranges - it doesn't actually display the target power for any given interval, which is incredibly annoying. It seems like it would be such an easy change to make to the software.
> 
> I'm fine without electronic resistance, but for over $2K, I'm kind of shocked that you can't actually program an interval workout into the Joule and have it tell you what the goal is for each step. Especially since you can't just replace the Joule with a Garmin 910 or something along those lines, since it won't sync.
> 
> To be clear - I'm incredibly happy with the actual bike itself. Smooth ride, sturdy, solid build quality, etc. It's top notch. I just feel a bit ripped off - I was very clearly given the impression that the only difference between the 300 and the 400 was the electronic resistance. To find out I can't pre-program intervals workouts and just follow the computer (similar to running intervals with a Garmin), it's just a bit disappointing.
> 
> So.....if anyone is still deciding - I certainly wish I'd gone with the 400, or at least known this going in.


Yep, I agree 100% with you. They could easily display the target and the time interval for the designed workout. But then they probably want you to buy the 400 with electronic control.


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## RoadRunner

I have problems with the pairing of the resistance unit. The way I have tried is:
1. In the sensor setup menu I have started the RU pairing and the pairing is blinking.
2. After that I have plugged the power wire.
But nothing happens, no RU is found and the ID number is all zero.

What could go wrong? Is the unit broken? After I plug the power wire a blue light is blinking inside the bike. Is this normal? Also, should the resistance unit make any noises? When I plug the power wire I can't hear anything. I saw one video about the setting up the sensors and there it was said that after pluggin in the RU motor will make some noise but this is not happening in my bike.


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## colorider7

Great thread here. Very helpful. Are most people's experiences still positive? Thinking of getting the Cycleops 420 Pro with virtual training / auto resistance feature. Thanks in advance for any insights.


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## MJCBH

I too am thinking about the 420 (as well as the 300). I keep wondering how the newer 420 compares to the 410. Cycleops website states that the 420 does not come with the Joule 2.0 and instead of using a computer, you have to use an Ipad or android system - not sure I understand how this would work. Ultimately I'm thinking I would rather get the 300 so I don't have to worry about dealing with an additional computer system. If I understand correctly, I could still use the Joule 2.0 on my roadbike then replicate the same ride on the 300 Spin bike.../


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## Tommo61

*One year later*

I got the i400 about a year ago and I've been using it quite regularly since then. I have a few comments.

Mostly what I do is to transfer a ride from my Garmin 800 onto Poweragent on my computer then transfer this to my Joule and then ride that as a named workout on the i400. Other times I select manual workout and just ride and train as I want.

the issues I have are that when I first get on I have to allow a bit of time for the sensors to pair. Worst is the heart rate sensor which you always have to pair. Next is the sensor that puts the brake on to simulate incline and gear. This can take a minute or two to pair and I have not found a foolproof system for doing this. Its erratic.

I don't have the virtual trainer. I don't like the idea of having a TV in front of me. I'd rather just use the machine.

This is undoubtedly a great piece of kit mechanically but the problem with it is that its severely let down by the Poweragent desktop software which is awful and secondly the Joule is bait of a tedious thing to use.

To make this perfect they need to redo the Poweragent software to make it user friendly. Update or replace the Joule so that it is a decent size and more intuitive. Sort out the sensors so that they pair easily. Add a gear shift that can go on the drops. Its a pain to keep toggling the tiny switch to change gear and it puts you in a poor riding position.

I have a waterpower and that pairs in milliseconds with its heart strap. If they can do it then surely cycleops can.

I'm praying that they launch a new Joule which can incorporate the virtual trainer and fix all these issues. In the meantime its a good quality indoor road bike and I love it.


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## SwiftSolo

I now have 18 months on my 410. The Joule that came with it crapped out a couple of times and I now use my laptop instead. I set it up so that the up and down arrows on the keyboard for shifting are just under the drop bar hoods (about the same place as they are in reality). The downside is that I have to cover the rest of the keyboard to keep from sweating on it while doing standing efforts. It also requires letting go of the bars to shift while standing

Summary of the positives:
The 410 indoor cycle itself has been completely reliable.
Virtual training (s.r.o.) takes the boredom out of indoor training.
I can train on rides I'm planning on doing in foreign places/countries and have a pretty accurate idea of what to expect in difficulty and a spot-on visual representation that allows me to meter out my effort based on where I'm at on the ride. It should be pointed out that accuracy of effort is dependent on the level of knowledge that was used during the sponsor riders setup and his/her determination to get it right before final publication. With rides I've downloaded (frequent actual training rides), I can re-adjust the level of "smoothing" and republish until I have them pretty much right on.

I've just begun redoing my rides with a garmin Virb Elite so that I can use the actual video along with the zoomed-in google earth display of current location when doing my usual summertime mountain training rides.

Summary of the negatives:
The Joule controller had a short life expectancy, poor connectivity, and required removing one hand from the hoods or bar tops to shift gears--a bit of a pain in the ass when standing on steep hills/hard efforts and needing to shift. Replacement by my laptop is better (and far more dependable) but you must cover the balance of the keyboard to keep sweat from gumming it up. It also locates the laptop screen in a poor location. A simple remote USB adaptable toggle where the right hand shifter is on a normal road bike is needed. It could be retrofitted with a couple of zip ties and would move your laptop screen display into a more user friendly location. 

Overall, the 410 has been a life changer in that I have always hated indoor cycle training before I got it. I just returned from Italy where I did Passo's Gardena, Pordoi, Sella, Campolongo (all during the Sella Ronda), Stelvio, and Gavia. I had done them all with video on my 410 several times before leaving for Italy and knew just what to expect physically and visually (the Stelvio virtual training ride was a bit over-smoothed but otherwise good). And yes, doing them in advance on the trainer did allow me to relax more on the actual rides because I had a good idea of what to expect.



MJCBH said:


> I too am thinking about the 420 (as well as the 300). I keep wondering how the newer 420 compares to the 410. Cycleops website states that the 420 does not come with the Joule 2.0 and instead of using a computer, you have to use an Ipad or android system - not sure I understand how this would work. Ultimately I'm thinking I would rather get the 300 so I don't have to worry about dealing with an additional computer system. If I understand correctly, I could still use the Joule 2.0 on my roadbike then replicate the same ride on the 300 Spin bike.../


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## Ian45

I have been using the 410 for a while now and mainly use it with the Joule 3.0 to do interval training along with the easier proscribed endurance mile stuff. I am very happy I went with the 400 over the 300. And a closeout at REI got me the thing for a wicked cheap price. Still a chunk of money of course. It was right when Cycleops was changing and not including the 3.0 anymore which I do not really approve of. I can still of course use the bike with my tablet or laptop but I really like having the option to use the Joule because its easy and stays on the bike. But anyway comparing the 300 to the 400 series the auto resistance really shines with the intervals. I plug in the workout using poweragent then send the workout to the joule from the laptop. I love the auto resistance doing interval workouts. Once you have the workout plugged in you just do it without thinking or doing anything else but peddling. Once you select the desired workout you loaded your future is set unless you stop peddling. If anyone has any questions I would be happy to try and help. I have been through many indoor cycle training type things and this one is it. No regrets at all.


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## chewmylegoff

SwiftSolo said:


> I really appreciate the input.
> 
> I sprung for the 410 (400 with virtual training) and so far really like it (2 rides only). The software is a bit difficult initially but really well thought out and support is really good but long waits. I've had a little trouble with the video but they've straightened me out. I've been using the impressive but less spectacular google earth stuff to date.


A bit of a long shot- but just wondering what the issues you had with the video are and whether they are the same as what I am experiencing.

I've got a 420, and any video route which includes any downhill is not working for me. As much as I would like to breeze up Alpe d'Huez, I'm not quite there yet! 

Basically, as soon as the gradient either goes from positive to negative, or a negative gradient changes to a different negative gradient, the power/cadence/time/distance etc stats on the left side of the screen all freeze. The resistance stays on and the video keeps rolling, but the software seems to "lose" the bike. I can get it to resync by pressing CTRL+ALT+DEL and stopping pedalling, but this is hardly an acceptable solution and even when it does reconnect the resistance is then often skewed (e.g. can only get 30W on when in top gear on a -1% slope) until it goes uphill again. 

Googlemaps routes work fine for me and that functionality is great. 

Virtual training have, unfortunately, sat on my queries for 2 weeks and completely failed to get back to me so just wondering if this was a similar problem to the one you experienced and if so what you did to fix it? Instinctively feels like a problem with the software rather than the bike to me (especially as the same problem does not manifest itself on googlemaps rides where the bike deals with "down" properly).


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