# Tubeless Cyclocross Tire Recommendations



## mdiehl (Aug 11, 2010)

I have a pair of Tubeless Ready American Classic Hurricanes (18.1mm internal width) that I'm setting up for cyclocross. Can anyone recommend tires?

I'm looking at the Vittoria Cross XL Pro TNT (33mm) and the Kenda Kommando Pro and Pro X (35mm and 33mm, respectively). 

Has anyone used these for tubeless? How much value should I place on that extra 2mm of width?

I weigh around 170lbs and will be racing in and around Indiana. Apparently, the first 1/3 of the season is mostly dry, fast, grass crits while the back 2/3 are muddy.

Thanks for the information! I'll post with impressions once I have them, if anyone is interested.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

The XL's are much more of a mud tire from my understanding, but I hear they roll pretty well. Someone on the board has them mounted tubeless I believe. 

To me the Kommando look like poor Grifos. Not sure I dig the tread.

I think most folks would say wider is better for tubeless and CX, as the wider tire shape helps push the beads against the rim, which should give you less burping and the ability to run lower pressures. 

Unfortunately there aren't alot of 35mm+ tires on the market currently. I know Ritchey and WTB will have tubeless ready 35s out this year, but I don't think they are available yet. Hopefully others will follow their lead.


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## mdiehl (Aug 11, 2010)

I've been waiting on the WTB Cross Boss and the Ritchey Shield but, like you said, I'm not sure they'll be available before the season starts. 

By the way, krisdrum, thanks for your advice on the tubeless wheels. I went with the Hurricane because of the AC rim profile (which supposedly works well tubeless), the high spoke count, and the high-flange hubs. Supposedly they are durable and stiff as hell.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

I heard from WTB about a month or so ago Cross Boss would be available end of August. Looked on their site today and didn't see an update. Might be worth dropping them a line, as they are usually pretty responsive.

I think Ritchey said October for the Shield.


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## Stoneman (Mar 1, 2009)

Specialized makes some great tubeless CX tires. I'm running the Specialized Tracer 2BR 700x33 on American Classic 29er Tubeless wheel set. On this wheel set they measure 35. The Tracer is Specialized's all conditions tire. They also have the Trigger 2BR(file tread) and Terra 2BR(mud). I ran the Vittoria XG TNT last year and like the Tracer 2BR better.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

A friend has had great luck with Specialized CX tubeless. I ran Terra tubulars for a season, I really like that tread design, it's an aggressive all-rounder that works well in nearly every situation.


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## Pynchonite (Jan 26, 2014)

Can't go wrong with either the Vittorias or Spesh. I ran Vittoria XG TNT's last season - they are just phenomenal as all-rounders. I put them through pointy rock hell several times over and not so much as a ding in the sidewall. They feel pretty stiff right out of the box, so you need to break them in, and it very well might take two people to get them over the rim the first time, and they wear like crazy on pavement (3 months to bald for the rear tire), but they hold sealant extremely well, are tougher than nails, offer great traction, and absolutely refuse to unseat. I would recommend them as long as you don't do any extended riding on tarmac with them.


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## mdiehl (Aug 11, 2010)

Went with the Vittoria XL Pro TNT and have the Kenda Kommando X on order. Will provide reviews of wheels and tires if anyone is interested.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 23, 2013)

Another Vittoria Pro TNT on Nextie tubeless rims.


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## ExhaustPipe (Mar 7, 2009)

How do you like the Nextie tubeless rims?


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## pitbullandroadbike (Aug 7, 2011)

I'm trying the Small Block 8's and have Super Swans on a more dirt set of rims.


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## ozzybmx (Jun 23, 2013)

ExhaustPipe said:


> How do you like the Nextie tubeless rims?


Great so far, I had them set up with a set of 28c sport tyres at ~100psi for a few weeks while doing some road kms... but I am too partial to gravel and singletrack so swapped them out for XG's.

I also have 1 set of ENVE wheels, 1 set of LB carbon wheels (had another but sold them) and 2 sets of Nextie fatbike carbon wheels, so I have had a few sets to compare. 

Great rims for the price, I'll never spend big $$$ on another set of carbon wheels... they don't have the bling name like ENVE but minus the stickers you couldn't tell the difference.


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## jroden (Jun 15, 2004)

i really like the xl's, i mounted them on a panceti rim and they were a bear to get on but they hold air really well. the sidewall is pretty stiff so they are not real supple feeling, but I have been running them at 28-ish for some pretty technical mtb races and they did not burp air. They seem to roll pretty well too.

My plan is to just race on one set of tubless tires all season and to quit jerking around with tubulars. I tried it years ago and the burping made me reconsider, hopefully this time will go better


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## rgrieve (Sep 9, 2014)

I've been running tubeless CX since 2011, with varying success. Most of my racing has been on Racing Ralphs, 700x35c (on Alpha 340), with alpha 340 rim strips for 2013, and without for 2012 and 2011. Super light, great traction, but occasional problems with burping and roll-offs. Not exactly terrible results, only one run-in (dead flat) out of almost 20 races, and one partial roll-off that probably actually released enough air to make me faster  Last year I got a set of Kenda Kommando Pro SCT to deal with the unreliability, but didn't end up using them because the tread is quite low profile, especially compared to the RaRa. They might be a good tire for fast/dry courses. I did use one extensively on the rear, on my training wheel (with an alpha 340 rim strip, as now recommended by stans on the 340 hoop), never any burps no matter how hard I tried to burp it (but it was just training after all). 

I've just got a set of Vittoria XG Pro TNT, which I plan to run without the rim strip on the 340s as my primary racing setup for this season. The tread looks better than the Kommando (but it's still no RaRa), it's nice and tight to fit on the 340 (but not the fight that others have reported), and it sealed and held air, with compressor, without any sealant (though I plan to add sealant, of course). I just took a look at the Kommando X, and they look better than the Kommando, with a little more space and supposedly taller knobs (it's hard to tell from a picture, though). mdiehl, let me know if/when you get the kommando X, and what you think of them.


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## GasX (Jul 7, 2013)

I currently run SB8's tubeless but plan to retire them as they are worn down and don't hold pressure well anymore. I wanted to go wide and tubeless and so I contacted both WTB and Ritchey. They are all pushed back a few months on delivery. I think October for Cross Boss and January for Shield. I just ordered a set of Vittoria XG Pro TNT's to go on my Iron Cross rims and will report on the experience.


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## ghettocop (Apr 19, 2014)

Concur with the previous poster in recommending Specialized Tracers. I'm not a fan of Spesh but these are some very good tires. They wear extremely well on pavement, have predictable cornering in loose over hardpack, hold air well and will not roll off with very low pressure. Not as bomb proof as the vittoria XG pros, but those wear out super fast on pavement.


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## rgrieve (Sep 9, 2014)

I've done 2 races with my new Vittoria XG Pro on Alpha 340 tubeless (no rim strip). Pressures as low as 28 rear and 26 front, no burps at all, no loss of air. I have bottomed out a few times, both on rock (unfortunately) and soft surfaces. At this point I have full confidence in this tubeless setup.

In addition, yesterday's race was very wet, and muddy/slippery in spots. The XG did a pretty good job of holding on. I think I might have appreciated slightly more knob, but for an all-around tire I think it's going to be good.


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## GasX (Jul 7, 2013)

I took my first ride today on my XG Pros on Iron Cross rims. They held pressure without sealant but got a few ounces anyway. I did 14 miles on pavement, gravel and long grass and compared to my worn SB8's were a revelation. Quiet on the road and I haven't had that much cornering confidence in a long time on gravel and wet grass. More mileage necessary for full evaluation, but I love them so far...


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## offrhodes42 (Sep 2, 2010)

WTB replied to me about 10 days ago that the Cross Boss would be shipping the end of September. I hope that is true as those are the tires I really want. I have Slant Six SCT on Crests, but want the larger volume WTB's for my Alpha 400's. I was told by Stan's that the TCS cross tires from WTB should work on the Alpha rims.


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## Justridinalong (Dec 31, 2008)

This past weekend I converted my Bontrager CX3 tires to tubeless. I also purchased the Bontrager plastic rim strips for tubeless conversion. I was impress with how easy it all went together. I had no problem inflating the tires using a standard floor pump, and no I did not have to pump like crazy (as you do with mtb tires).
I have been very happy with the CX3's. 99% of my rides have been dry, hard pack, or dewy grass before I converted. Then on over the weekend we got a fair amount of rain and it turned parts of the course into a swap land. I had no traction problems with cornering, or off camber sections. I watch many other riders throw tail whips and attempt 360's in corners with no traction. 
I am looking forward to getting the tubeless set out on my weekly stomping ground so I can truly compare the tubeless vs. tubed setup.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

offrhodes42 said:


> WTB replied to me about 10 days ago that the Cross Boss would be shipping the end of September. I hope that is true as those are the tires I really want. I have Slant Six SCT on Crests, but want the larger volume WTB's for my Alpha 400's. I was told by Stan's that the TCS cross tires from WTB should work on the Alpha rims.


In case you are wondering, Cross Boss now available and shipping. WTB site has been updated.


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## rudedog55 (Aug 10, 2009)

the Cross Boss looks not so different from my Piranha CX2's

Similar tread patters, not exactly the same, but similar idea's.

The Hutch tires are pretty decent, slide a little more than i like, but that was on late summer grass at 40psi. I am 215lbs. I only did one race on them, as i had a full quiver of tubbies that i have since gone through. Story for another thread.

I will try them again next week in Northampton, and i will go to my typical 34-36lb psi pressures, which is almost 10psi under the 43 Hutch recommends. I have used the tires on road and really liked them as they roll really well and hold up at pressures in the 80psi area

The only way i got these to burp was at 35psi and throwing the bike into a power slide and almost going over the handlebars. So i am not afraid of burping them in a race at this point at any reasonable pressure for my size.

I am not too happy that they do not currently offer the Toro or MambaCX in 34mm, the Mamba is the better file tread pattern in my opinion, and what i used most frequently in this seasons dry to tacky northeast weather on the front and one race in the rear as tubulars. I know they list a MambaCX tubeless on their webpage in 34mm, but the are not available as far as i can find yet.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

Think the Boss' will have a taller knob to them than the Piranha do. Believe the intent is more of an all-around, where I think of the Piranha as closer to a file, although I was a bit surprised by the knobs on them when you showed me. Planning to get some Boss', probably after the season, so we can compare notes.


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## vs779 (Feb 22, 2005)

rudedog55 said:


> the Cross Boss looks not so different from my Piranha CX2's
> 
> Similar tread patters, not exactly the same, but similar idea's.
> 
> ...


I have tried the Toro 32 tubeless and the Piranha 2 34 tubeless with great success on Hed FR+ tubeless Disc wheels. I weigh 165 and run 23-26 psi with no burps in race conditions. Both of these tires wear out pretty quick but that's the price you pay for performance. Like you said the Piranha is a bit slick but is pretty fast. I also have a set of the Mamba's 34 tubeless but it's a real file tread and until the ground freezes I won't be able to test. If you want to try Mamba's they are avail and shops can get them direct from Hutchinson.


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## FuelForThought (May 13, 2012)

The CrossBoss RULES.

I rode Vittoria XG TNT since August. Rims are WTB Chris Cross and at 21mm inner width, they should make tires huge. The XG stayed at 32mm and change. For me (intermediate skills, not super smooth but overall OK), I have to ride them at 30 psi rear/27psi front or I frequently bottom out. The tires always left me wondering if this is what CX tires were supposed to be: a little drifty, rear wheels slips a bit under standing pedaling, intermediate lean angle does not feel secure. This is my first CX bike so I did not know (used to race Expert MTB so that is my point of reference).

Then I got the CrossBoss last week and it has been a revelation. over 35mm wide. Height is also 3mm greater than the Vittoria. Ran them at 29/27 psi and the grip is just phenomenal. No rear wheel slipping, cornering in the loose is finally confidence inspiring and the rough terrain is much better absorbed. For my intermediate skill set, these tires are perfect. They may not roll quite as fast as other tires but the difference with the XG TNT is not very much. Unless there is some significant rain, the Cross Boss will not come off.


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## FuelForThought (May 13, 2012)

Vittoria XG TNT 33 on WTB ChrisCross







Installation was a breeze. Soapy water and floor pump popped the bead on the first try.


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## FuelForThought (May 13, 2012)

WTB CrossBoss 35 on WTB Chris Cross







Installation was a bear. Only CO2 could get the tire to seat and even then, I had to inflate the tire to 60psi to get the bead to fully pop.
After adding 30ml sealant, the tire is firmly stuck on the rim, zero burping by pinching.


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## offrhodes42 (Sep 2, 2010)

The Cross Boss is at the top of my list for tires to get. Was the bead really tight going on? How does it measure out when mounted?


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

FuelFor... Thanks for weighing in. I STILL haven't completed my ChrisCross builds. They are laced and ready for tension, just haven't had the time to focus on them.

The Cross Boss is high on my list, I already have a pair of TCS CrossWolves. 

Curious how many layers of tape you have your ChrisCross wrapped with?


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## FuelForThought (May 13, 2012)

offrhodes42 said:


> How does it measure out when mounted?


35 mm


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## FuelForThought (May 13, 2012)

krisdrum said:


> Curious how many layers of tape you have your ChrisCross wrapped with?


Just one layer of tape. That is absolutely enough, air loss are less than 1 psi/day.
I had never taped rims before and my taping technique was not up to snuff on one rim. I was getting leaks out of the valve hole and it took me a while to realize that I had to re-tape. With enough tension applied on the tape, rim sealed perfectly.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

FuelForThought said:


> Just one layer of tape. That is absolutely enough, air loss are less than 1 psi/day.
> I had never taped rims before and my taping technique was not up to snuff on one rim. I was getting leaks out of the valve hole and it took me a while to realize that I had to re-tape. With enough tension applied on the tape, rim sealed perfectly.


Got it. Cliff over at CXM did 1 wrap as well and had similar issues with initial set-up using the TCS CrossWolf. He theorized a second wrap would have given him an easier seal and set-up. If/when you see any issues, that might be worth trying. I am going to do 2 wraps once I have mine tensioned up.


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## krisdrum (Oct 29, 2007)

FuelForThought said:


> The tires always left me wondering if this is what CX tires were supposed to be: a little drifty, rear wheels slips a bit under standing pedaling, intermediate lean angle does not feel secure. This is my first CX bike so I did not know (used to race Expert MTB so that is my point of reference).


You are not alone in your experience with Grifo-esque patterns. The side knobs don't do much and they do tend to break free in my experience. The trick seems to be getting a feel for when they break free and using it to your advantage to slide the back tire a bit on purpose. At least that is what I've seen from the more experienced guys in my area. I think that is one of the reasons Clement went with PDX-like side knobs on the MXP tire, to give some added slide prevention for those looking for a more grounded feel.


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## FuelForThought (May 13, 2012)

krisdrum said:


> You are not alone in your experience with Grifo-esque patterns. The side knobs don't do much and they do tend to break free in my experience. The trick seems to be getting a feel for when they break free and using it to your advantage to slide the back tire a bit on purpose.


That describes my experience with the XG pretty well. I did not mind the drift in the rear but the few times the front tire started skidding I got pretty nervous. Maybe that is why the Fango is preferred as a front tire?

Regardless, the CrossBoss35 are exactly what I needed to gain confidence. If I ever get A class skills, then I'll start thinking about narrow tires.


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## pretender (Sep 18, 2007)

Grifo design has long been superceded by better designs. But on tubulars it really is more about the quality of the rubber and the tire pressure, so Dugast, FMB, etc, can get away with it.

The MXP makes a nod toward the Grifo but adds those cuts in the big chevron so it can flex.

IMO Fango is superior in every way, but the name implies that it's a mud tire, which it is not. (Exact same problem with the Michelin Mud 2, which is an awesome all-rounder and many people have successfully used it tubeless, but is NOT a mudder.)


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## tiflow_21 (Nov 21, 2005)

Mark me up as an XG/Grifo hater. Not much volume and HARD rubber on the vittorias. They ride like bricks and have very little traction. NOT a good cx tread IMO.

While I've been waiting on better tubeless ready options I'm continuing to use clement PDXs setup tubeless on stans rims. I've had good luck so far but would prefer a clement PDX w/tubeless ready being part of the design (COME ON Clement!!!). I'd accept a slight weight penalty for more security at lower pressures. Larger volume tires + wide tubeless ready rims is where it's at for CX racing if you aren't running tubulars.


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## porterhouse (Jan 27, 2009)

FuelForThought said:


> The CrossBoss RULES.
> 
> 
> Then I got the CrossBoss last week and it has been a revelation. over 35mm wide. Height is also 3mm greater than the Vittoria. Ran them at 29/27 psi and the grip is just phenomenal. No rear wheel slipping, cornering in the loose is finally confidence inspiring and the rough terrain is much better absorbed.


Fuel, what type of terrain are you riding in? Most races where I'm at are dry hardpack with the typical bits of grass, gravel, and sand thrown in. Primarily looking for something decent on hardpack.


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