# Tube Patching: When Is the Glue Dry?



## TomBrooklyn (Mar 15, 2008)

When is the tube patching glue dry, for the purposes of installing the patch? 

The tube patching glue never seems to get completely dry. I usually apply it directly from the tube and spread it around with the tube opening. The thickness of glue spread thusly varies quite a bit. The thick parts never seem to dry completely. Even after waiting an hour, they remain tacky.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

The glue is tacky after it dries...like contact cement. Tacky is good, wet is not. When applying it, spread it quickly keeping the layer very thin and avoiding thick spots as much as possible. In my experience it never takes more than a couple of minutes for the glue to dry adequately.


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

5 minutes should do it.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

TomBrooklyn said:


> ...and spread it around with the tube opening.


To not get thick spots, spread it with your finger and not with the tube opening. Blowing on the glue speeds up drying. The glue that gets on your finger just rubs off once dry.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Visual check*



TomBrooklyn said:


> When is the tube patching glue dry, for the purposes of installing the patch?
> 
> The tube patching glue never seems to get completely dry. I usually apply it directly from the tube and spread it around with the tube opening. The thickness of glue spread thusly varies quite a bit. The thick parts never seem to dry completely. Even after waiting an hour, they remain tacky.


When the surface goes from "shiny wet" to "matte finish" the glue is dry.


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## Milk-Bone (Jul 10, 2011)

Throw a match on it like we did in the old days! Some say you don't need to do this any more, but it makes feels good watching the flame and you can be done a hell of a lot quicker.


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## onespeedbiker (May 28, 2007)

Milk-Bone said:


> Throw a match on it like we did in the old days! Some say you don't need to do this any more, but it makes feels good watching the flame and you can be done a hell of a lot quicker.


I guess you didn't get the memo. Hot patch kits are no longer sold in the US; some environmental or safety mumbo jumbo. But that really takes me back to my Jr High days when we were turning Sting Rays into off-road racers that were later called BMX bikes. I remember how a group of us one at a time were taking a running start, trying to run over a half inflated basket ball, thinking it would flatten. I missed it but my brother didn't and with a different result; but as usual he bounced as most kids do, no helmet and we all laughed it off. But I digress.

Just throwing a match on a patch will pretty much do nothing; hot vulcanization requires some a clamping mechanism and some chemical fuel to burn. I do remember how much fun they were though. Some came with a fuel that came out of a tube and looked like glue. You squirted some in a flat metal bowl the size of a quarter that was clamped over the patch and lit it and watched it burn. The other I used for car inner-tubes (no I'm not so old that I would would have repaired car's flat tire by patching an inner-tubes) to be used as a flotation device. Those had a square shaped metal bowl about the size of a silver dollar and contained a solid fuel. You clamped it on the patch and it lit up like fireworks (I tried it once on a bicycle tube because it was so cool but apparently the square metal doesn't work so well on small patches as the edges of the bowl burned right through the tube. It was one of the best times of my life). :thumbsup:


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Just get Park, or Specialized, or 3M glueless patches, and never worry about whether or not the glue dried properly...unless you use latex tubes, they don't work well on latex.


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## cyclesport45 (Dec 10, 2007)

The glue is dry 2 seconds AFTER you put the patch on. Bring spare tubes.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

cyclesport45 said:


> The glue is dry 2 seconds AFTER you put the patch on. Bring spare tubes.


I don't patch on the road, except for using Parks stick-ons temporarily if I get multiple flats. I swap tubes and patch the holed tube at home.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

looigi said:


> I don't patch on the road, except for using Parks stick-ons temporarily if I get multiple flats. I swap tubes and patch the holed tube at home.


This is so wrong. Glueless patches ARE NOT TEMPORARILY!!! I've been using these patches for over 15 years and never had one fail...except on latex. I've ridden on tubes with as many as 13 glueless patches and that particular tube was 5 years old and was a main tube I rode on everyday. 

The only way these patches fail is because the user doesn't know how to patch. 

And I always try to patch the tube first on the road before using a back up tube. I can patch a tube faster then I can replacing the tube assuming that I can find the leak quickly.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

froze said:


> This is so wrong. Glueless patches ARE NOT TEMPORARILY!!! I've been using these patches for over 15 years and never had one fail...except on latex.


I am soooo happy for you and your success with stick-ons! I've been using them for ~10 years as well and they always start leaking after a few weeks or months...particularly if the tires have gone soft after not having been ridden for a while. This isn't just my experience, but also the experience of a bunch of guys I've ridden with. On the other hand, in 40 years of riding I've never had a glue-on patch fail or leak.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

looigi said:


> I am soooo happy for you and your success with stick-ons! I've been using them for ~10 years as well and they always start leaking after a few weeks or months...particularly if the tires have gone soft after not having been ridden for a while. This isn't just my experience, but also the experience of a bunch of guys I've ridden with. On the other hand, in 40 years of riding I've never had a glue-on patch fail or leak.


Well it's too bad you couldn't get those glueless patches to work. If you've been on any forum long enough this subject comes up and there are others, besides me, who has had equal success with them, and I too know people that use glueless patches and they seem to get them to work. Heck it was an IBS in Bakersfield Ca that turned me on to these and they use them on their race team and never had a failure!! 

Tube gone soft? How soft is a tube with glueless patch rolled up in a saddle bag for months before having to use it only to find the patch is fine and I'm still using that tube 3 months later? Is that soft enough for you? And then I took the bad tube home, found the leak, patched it too with a glueless patch and rolled it up and it now is in my seat bag. I've been doing that for years and never had any of those fail either. But if you're not preparing the tube correctly they you're probably right, it won't hold.

Of course I've never had glue on patch fail either.

Please note: in all the years of riding everyone will have a patch fail mostly because something got screwed up in the process of applying it. But that failure applies to both glue on and glueless, I can't remember more then a 1/2 dozen times a patch not going on right, but all my failed patches went on bad...in other words they failed immediately when it stuck, but once they stuck correctly their on for good...glue or glueless. So when I say never had a patch fail, more correctly it's rarely had one fail, but it seems like never.


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## 2silent (Dec 26, 2009)

froze said:


> Well it's too bad you couldn't get those glueless patches to work. If you've been on any forum long enough this subject comes up and there are others, besides me, who has had equal success with them, and I too know people that use glueless patches and they seem to get them to work. Heck it was an IBS in Bakersfield Ca that turned me on to these and they use them on their race team and never had a failure!!
> 
> Tube gone soft? How soft is a tube with glueless patch rolled up in a saddle bag for months before having to use it only to find the patch is fine and I'm still using that tube 3 months later? Is that soft enough for you? And then I took the bad tube home, found the leak, patched it too with a glueless patch and rolled it up and it now is in my seat bag. I've been doing that for years and never had any of those fail either. But if you're not preparing the tube correctly they you're probably right, it won't hold.
> 
> ...



would you mind posting exactly how you apply them?


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

2silent said:


> would you mind posting exactly how you apply them?


The method is the same as it is with glue on. The patch kit comes with a buffer, so you first buff the tube slightly larger then the area the patch will cover. Next you take a alcohol pad and clean the area real well. Then you peel the patch off the backing by it's corner so your finger only touches the smallest part of the patch. You don't have to wait for the alcohol to dry because by the time you get the patch peeled off the backing the tube is dry. Lay the patch over the hole with the hole being in the center of the patch. Then press between your thumb and index fingers as hard as you can for about 30 seconds, then press the corners down the same way to make sure their on. And that's it, it's basically the same process as a glue on patch. Even with a glue on patch it's wise to clean with an alcohol patch after buffing, though there's been times with a glue on patch that I didn't and it still stuck, but not using an alcohol to clean the tube while attempting to put on a glueless patch will prevent the patch from sticking so it's not an option.


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## 2silent (Dec 26, 2009)

Thank you, I've only used them once and without alcohol step...

c

you think vodka would work in a pinch?


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

Hmm, I may have to give glueless patches another 'shot' (geddit?) and pack alcohol swabs.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

2silent said:


> Thank you, I've only used them once and without alcohol step...
> 
> c
> 
> you think vodka would work in a pinch?


One thing I forgot to mention, when your "done" squeezing the patch on, you can tell if the parts of the patch did not adhere by checking to see if any of the patch areas have a frosty or not clear look to compared to other parts of the patch, if you see this effect then simply go to that section and re-squeeze that area to get that to disappear. Seamless tubes work the best because any patch, glue or glueless have trouble sealing where a seam is. But if you have a seam you need to use your index fingernail between your thumb of course and try to get that frosty look to disappear along the edge of the seam.

Vodka works really great on tubes, especially after your 3rd flat on a ride, you drink a pint of it and then suddenly you don't care about your stinking flats anymore! I always carry a pint of that stuff around just in case of such situations... What would be great is if they made alcohol pads saturated with Vodka then after cleaning the tube you just lick the pad afterwards...or maybe lick the pad first then clean the tube.


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## Cut.Aussie (Mar 19, 2011)

I tried a couple of different brands of clueless patches without success till a friend gave me a pack of the Park Tool ones to try, what can I say, fantastic, have worked every time I have tried them so.


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## vontress (Jul 19, 2009)

Great thread. I also have given up on glue less patches, but I didn't use alcohol or name brand. I'll definitely give it another go.


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## VAMurph (Aug 28, 2010)

*Rubber cement*

Hey now, related stupid question. Is the bottled cement labeled Rubber Cement the same as what's in the tube you get with patch kits? I've used it and it works fine BTW


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

Cut.Aussie said:


> I tried a couple of different brands of clueless patches without success


Yeah, the clueless ones are best avoided. They're intended for use by clueless riders. :thumbsup:


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

VAMurph said:


> Hey now, related stupid question. Is the bottled cement labeled Rubber Cement the same as what's in the tube you get with patch kits? I've used it and it works fine BTW


It's the same stuff, you can also use Monkey Grip. Some old timers still cut an old tube into small round, or square patches and use rubber cement to to bind the cut old tube onto a flattened tube. Problem is with using an old tube is that they tend to be thicker then a normal patch and with a thin tire you could feel the patch as you ride. 

Glueless patches by the way are the thinnest alnd lightest patch on the market...light weight? how light does one need to get?


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## TomBrooklyn (Mar 15, 2008)

wim said:


> To not get thick spots, spread it with your finger and not with the tube opening.


 I'll try that. The thick spots I usually get is really what my question is about, as the thin spots dry quickly.

I have tried using my finger sometimes, but that can lead to another problem, which is the glue dries, at least partially, extremely fast, and then it "drags" under the finger and goes on rough instead of nice and smoothly.

Another thing I wonder about is that when spreading the glue around with the glue tube opening, some areas go on very smoothly but very thinly. I usually go over them and add more glue because the first layer, although it looks good, seems too thin. Is this correct to do, or is a nicely smooth, complete coat of glue, although very thin, good?


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## qatarbhoy (Aug 17, 2009)

TomBrooklyn said:


> Another thing I wonder about is that when spreading the glue around with the glue tube opening, some areas go on very smoothly but very thinly. I usually go over them and add more glue because the first layer, although it looks good, seems too thin. Is this correct to do, or is a nicely smooth, complete coat of glue, although very thin, good?


I think you're overthinking this. Inspect rim and tyre for sharp items - find hole in tube - roughen tube around hole - *apply glue* - wait a few minutes - apply patch - reinstall tube. Go ride. :thumbsup:


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

> _Another thing I wonder about...._


As said in the previous post, the problems you're having are because you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. Dab some glue on the hole, then spread it around _immediately_ with your finger. Should take all of 3 seconds. Just wait (meaning: do nothing) until the glue is tacky, stick on patch, done.


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## Touch0Gray (May 29, 2003)

I almost always carry a fresh (new or patched) tube in my bag and just swap out on the road, that way I can take the time to patch the leaker properly and carefully at the bench, not by the side of the road in the rain. I also carry a pack of glueless just in case! BTW carrying vodka to clean the tube sounds like a winner!


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

Touch0Gray said:


> I almost always carry a fresh (new or patched) tube in my bag and just swap out on the road, that way I can take the time to patch the leaker properly and carefully at the bench, not by the side of the road in the rain.


Yes, that makes sense, of course. Not sure if the OP is talking about road-side repair, though. In his original post, he waited for one hour for the glue to dry. Then again, with some of that vodka around, one hour might not be such a bad wait, even in the rain...

BTW, during my first few years of cycling, I (and anyone else I knew) never took a rear wheel out of the frame to fix a flat. You pulled sections of tube out from under the popped bead to find the hole and patched it. The reason was the type of bikes we rode: Dutch-type cruisers with chain cases and coaster brakes. You haven't lived until you've pulled a rear wheel out of a Dutch-type bike and put it back. One hour if you have no experience, two or more scraped knuckles, filthy hands.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Keep in mind if your using glue to buff an area slightly larger then the patch and apply the glue slightly larger then the patch will cover.

With folding tires 700c x 23 tires I rarely take a tire off the rim, front or rear to fix on the side of the road. I simply take about half the bead off of one side with the hole area in the center area of the removed bead, then pull the tube down just enough to patch the hole. It still gives you enough area to put your finger inside the tire to check for dangling chard's. Patch, restuff the tube and remount the bead. Steel wire (non-folding) road tires have to be removed, their too stiff and too narrow; but I have been able to do that routine with steel wire beaded MTB tires.

Of course there is a guy in my town who works for the LBS here that can remove and replace the tire and the tube on the rear of a road bike in about a minute using a Quik Stik and CO2 of course. It was on You Tube but I can't find it since You Tube changed their look. I'm never motivated to go that fast...nor can I! If I can repair the flat by just removing half of one side of the tire and pull the tube I can be done in about 5 minutes on the rear. I usually take about 10 to 15 minutes for that procedure on the rear even with a Quik Stik. But that time is not including rolling the old tube up and putting everything back into the seat bag and cleaning the hands (I use Goop hand cleaner in packets). 

A side note; personally I think pro racers ought to be responsible for fixing their own flats like the use to in the old days and still do in anything less then pro level.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Finding the flat*



froze said:


> Keep in mind if your using glue to buff an area slightly larger then the patch and apply the glue slightly larger then the patch will cover.
> 
> With folding tires 700c x 23 tires I rarely take a tire off the rim, front or rear to fix on the side of the road. I simply take about half the bead off of one side with the hole area in the center area of the removed bead, then pull the tube down just enough to patch the hole. It still gives you enough area to put your finger inside the tire to check for dangling chard's. Patch, restuff the tube and remount the bead. Steel wire (non-folding) road tires have to be removed, their too stiff and too narrow; but I have been able to do that routine with steel wire beaded MTB tires.
> 
> Of course there is a guy in my town who works for the LBS here that can remove and replace the tire and the tube on the rear of a road bike in about a minute using a Quik Stik and CO2 of course.


It must be different where you live, because I would guess that at least 50% of the flats we get are small enough that you cannot find the source of the puncture without a careful inspection of the inside of the tire to locate the bit of glass or radial tire belt wire. You can't do this with your technique, nor can your bike shop ace change a tire in a minute if he doesn't know here the leak is.


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## froze (Sep 15, 2002)

Kerry Irons said:


> It must be different where you live, because I would guess that at least 50% of the flats we get are small enough that you cannot find the source of the puncture without a careful inspection of the inside of the tire to locate the bit of glass or radial tire belt wire. You can't do this with your technique, nor can your bike shop ace change a tire in a minute if he doesn't know here the leak is.


I rarely get flats since moving to Indiana, I've had one flat now in two years and that one was just about 3 weeks ago. I would say about 50% as well are holes I can find and repair without much hassle...of course what flat isn't a hassle? You know what I mean though. So the other 50% or so requires removing the wheel, tire and tube, then inflating the tube in an attempt to find the leak. So I agree with you, as a rough estimate about 50% is right. But I prefer to patch the tube first if I can find the leak, if not then go to the back up tube as my last resort. I figure I got the wheel off why slap a new tube in then go home and find the leak if I can do on the road. Plus I can usually fix a flat with glueless patches just as fast as I can putting a new tube in! Then if you think about it, what happens if you have a second flat? your still having to fix a tube on the road. If the leak is so small and I can't find it after airing up the tube outside the tire then it's apparent that it's going to take time to find it so I'll just replace the tube.

The bike shop ace was just doing a time thing, they weren't fixing the leak, just replacing the tube. So with the tire mounted to the rear, removal of wheel, tire and tube, replacing with new tube, and remounting it and re-airing with co2 was somewhere around a minute, I think it was 54 seconds.


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