# Campy cassette - changing individual cogs - spacing issues



## ridewt (Jan 14, 2002)

I decided to experiment trying to create my own veloce level 11-23 cassette (veloce doesn't come in 11-23) by buying a veloce 11-25 and then also buying a single 16 cog. That was still a lot cheaper than a centaur 11-23. Anyway, I had erroneously assumed that all the spacers in the loose cogset of the veloce were all the same width. Wrong. Turns out that many of the spacers are different thicknesses. 

When I substituted in the 16 and removed the 25, I just put the 25 and the spacer that had between the 23-25 into a box and took another spacer from an older cassette and put it between the 15 and 16. But, the shifting with my makeshift cassette was poor. I'm thinking that I just need to put the original spacers back into place. The way I have it set up now, after the 15 cog, all the spacers are probably wrong. Does anyone have experience with this "do it yourself" cassette creation and whether you really need to pay close attention to the exact spacers in the exact spot? I'm guessing the answer is yes. I always thought a cassette s/be pretty simple but these varying thickness spacers seem to indicate that the answer is no.


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## dookie (Oct 1, 2007)

spacers are all the same thickness...really.

cogs are not all the same. there are different 'timings', intended to work with matching cogs above and below to optimize chain movement. ie: a '16A' cog is different from a '16C' cog.

see the charts in the exploded diagrams at campagnolo.com for correct cog sequencing.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

for 9 they are the same, 2.8mm


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*nope...*



dookie said:


> spacers are all the same thickness...really.
> 
> cogs are not all the same. there are different 'timings', intended to work with matching cogs above and below to optimize chain movement. ie: a '16A' cog is different from a '16C' cog.
> 
> see the charts in the exploded diagrams at campagnolo.com for correct cog sequencing.



If you read the diagrams that you mentioned, it also lists a couple of different spacer thicknesses, but you are correct that the timing is also a big problem.

Mixing cogs is usually a bad idea.


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

C-40 said:


> If you read the diagrams that you mentioned, it also lists a couple of different spacer thicknesses, but you are correct that the timing is also a big problem.
> 
> Mixing cogs is usually a bad idea.




check out the diagrams under "Campagnolo 10 Speed Cassette Spacers" here:
http://branfordbike.com/page.cfm?pageID=60


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## dookie (Oct 1, 2007)

C-40 said:


> If you read the diagrams that you mentioned, it also lists a couple of different spacer thicknesses, but you are correct that the timing is also a big problem.


ah yes...OP doesn't specify 8/9/10. all of my campy is 8 or 9, for which the spacers are in fact all the same. pardon the misinformation if you're running 10s, i assumed the pattern would continue.


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## ridewt (Jan 14, 2002)

*Mixing cogs*

I'm the original poster. I changed all the spacers back to their original position this morning but that didn't work because the spacer between the new cog, the 16, and the 17 was too "tall" and it interfered with the chain. So, back to the basement again. So, now I have all the spacers in their original spots except I removed the too tall spacer and took a spacer from an older chorus cassette (it looked to be the same width but I didn't measure it) and substituted that. Then, I tested it and the cassette shifted beautifully from 11-19 but the 21 and 23 cogs were still all messed up. The chain didn't want to sit on the 21 at all and kept jumping out of that cog. 

Don't really know what to do now. Could go back to using the cassette as originally intended as a 11-25 but I really like my 16 cog. I would think there's got to be a solution. I know that veloce doesn't make a 11-23 but I would think this is doable. I suppose I should have spent the extra 30 bucks to get the 11-23 in centaur. It looks to me like the space between the 21-23 and too narrow the way it is set up now.


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## drewmcg (Sep 19, 2005)

OP: you still don't specify whether you run a 9-speed or 10-speed system. The advise differs depending on the answer to this question.

Assuming you are running 10-speed Campy, and doing this from (recent) memory, there are two issues: (i) the spacing required between cogs at various positions, and (ii) whether the cogs are pinned, and therefore present a different profile at the freehub.

Since you're dealing with Veloce (all individual cogs) and a 16t from a Chorus (also individual), issue no. (ii) should not apply to your situation.

In the Campy 10-spd drivetrain, the space required between most cogs is 2.4mm. For the space between the 6th and 7th cog (starting from the hardest/smallest cog, furthest to the outside) is 2.55mm. (On recent Veloce cassettes, this ring is a different color from the black 2.4 mm spacers--kinda "orangy"). And the spacing between the 9th and 10th (largest cogs, whatever your configuration) is something like 1.9mm. The fold-out Campy "sprockets" sheet that came with your cassette should spell this out.

Note that older Centaur cassettes and all Chorus cassettes (10spd) 1-3 pairs of "pinned" (joined) larger cogs, which limits your ability to move things around.

Hope this helps. You could use a micrometer ($30 at auto parts store), or just use your more prevelant 2.4mm spacers as a reference to figure out which spacers are slightly narrower (9-10 spacer) or thicker (6-7 spacer).


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## kannas (Feb 7, 2004)

Here is an additional spacing question. I run campy 9 on three bikes. And an older tange frame with suntour 7.... any possibility that I can respace down to 7, instead of buying an additional wheelset.


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## drewmcg (Sep 19, 2005)

kannas said:


> Here is an additional spacing question. I run campy 9 on three bikes. And an older tange frame with suntour 7.... any possibility that I can respace down to 7, instead of buying an additional wheelset.


What kind of shifters are you using on the Tange frame? Use downtube friction shifters and you don't need to re-space anything!


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## FatTireFred (Jan 31, 2005)

kannas said:


> Here is an additional spacing question. I run campy 9 on three bikes. And an older tange frame with suntour 7.... any possibility that I can respace down to 7, instead of buying an additional wheelset.




there may be a spacer kit for you... wheels mfging or maybe even campy. you'd prob have to space to 8, which IIRC is the same spacing as 7, and lockout one gear


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## ridewt (Jan 14, 2002)

*OP - Running 10 speed.*

Thanks for your post. I'm running 10 speed. I do have a friend with a micrometer and so I'll do that. One thing that perplexed me a bit was when I looked at campagnolo.com site and noticed that the centaur 11-23 cassette and the veloce 11-25 have cogs that are listed as different parts numbers for the 17 and 19 cogs even though they are both single, non pinned cogs. I wonder if they are different thicknesses. Anyway, I'll measure things and try to get the cassette to work right. I'm also wondering if I should not use the spacer that was intended to go between the 23-25 in between the 21-23? I cannot tell if that spacer is intended to go between the last two cogs or if I should just put that spacer in a box and stick with the spacer that was originally between the 21-23 --- they are different thickness spacers. 

http://www.campagnolo.com/repository/documenti/en/Spares08_B_1007.pdf


http://www.campagnolo.com/repository/documenti/en/Spares08_B_1007.pdf



drewmcg said:


> OP: you still don't specify whether you run a 9-speed or 10-speed system. The advise differs depending on the answer to this question.
> 
> Assuming you are running 10-speed Campy, and doing this from (recent) memory, there are two issues: (i) the spacing required between cogs at various positions, and (ii) whether the cogs are pinned, and therefore present a different profile at the freehub.
> 
> ...


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## drewmcg (Sep 19, 2005)

ridewt said:


> Thanks for your post. I'm running 10 speed. I do have a friend with a micrometer and so I'll do that. One thing that perplexed me a bit was when I looked at campagnolo.com site and noticed that the centaur 11-23 cassette and the veloce 11-25 have cogs that are listed as different parts numbers for the 17 and 19 cogs even though they are both single, non pinned cogs. I wonder if they are different thicknesses. Anyway, I'll measure things and try to get the cassette to work right. I'm also wondering if I should not use the spacer that was intended to go between the 23-25 in between the 21-23? I cannot tell if that spacer is intended to go between the last two cogs or if I should just put that spacer in a box and stick with the spacer that was originally between the 21-23 --- they are different thickness spacers.
> 
> http://www.campagnolo.com/repository/documenti/en/Spares08_B_1007.pdf
> 
> ...


They have different part numbers because they are different parts. The Centaur cassettes use a different metal/finish than the Veloce cassettes. The Centaur uses the same metal as the Chorus (forget precisely how they describe it). I think the Veloche is nickle-plated or something (shinier--more like chrome), which is heavier and perhaps not as long-lasting as the Chorus/Centaur metal composition. (Others here can describe far better than me.)

ASFIK, there is no difference in cog width or spacing between the two, so the different part numbers are irrelevant for your purpose.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, the spacer in the 9-10 position is the thinest of the lot. You need to use that spacer on your (rebuilt) cassette. You will need to use the spacer from your Veloce cassette, since the an older Centaur has pinned sprockets at this position (so lacks this spacer entirely).


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## kannas (Feb 7, 2004)

FatTireFred said:


> there may be a spacer kit for you... wheels mfging or maybe even campy. you'd prob have to space to 8, which IIRC is the same spacing as 7, and lockout one gear



Yes running friction. Did some research...

Campagnolo 9 to 8 speed spacer kit uses 7 spacers allowing you to convert your 9-speed hub to 8-speeds.

* Converts 9-speed cassette without alloy carrier to 8-speed spacing
* Must remove one cog
* Works on 9/10-speed Campagnolo hubs and wheels
* Only works on cog-sets with individual cogs and without alloy carriers

Sorta wish I did not ebay my Record 8 group years ago...


And of course from campyonly

1. Buy the Campy wheelset
2. Buy lower end Campy 9 speed cassette that has individual cogs and spacers.
3. Buy Campy 8 speed spacer kit from Campy or Wheels Mfg.
4. Replace 9 speed spacers with the 8 speed spacers and eliminate one of the 9 speed cogs,preferably the largest cog to maintain your shift ramp positioning of the first 8 cogs.


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