# 2014 Sworks SL4 vs the New Tarmac



## ryder07 (May 21, 2014)

Hi guys,

I'm new here. I'm on the verge of building my new bike and is having a dilemma between the 2014 Sworks SL4 or the new rider-first engineered Tarmac.

I ride a size 52, and coming from an old bike that is flexy, I for sure need a new carbon bike that is stiff for climbing. I read somewhere that the new Tarmac is reducing stiffness on the size 52 for better traction control during high speed descend. A reduced stiffness is a concern to me.

Should I opt for the latest and greatest, or I will be satisfied with the SL4? From what I can gather around the net, it seems that the new Tarmac is not as revolutionary bike as it claimed to be over the SL4.

Thank you in advance.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

ryder07 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm new here. I'm on the verge of building my new bike and is having a dilemma between the 2014 Sworks SL4 or the new rider-first engineered Tarmac.
> 
> ...


Nobody here can quantify the difference between the two bikes you are considering and as you state, your query is about being size specific at the smaller end of the frame spectrum. My personal view and only that is...your concern is unfounded. The SL4 Tarmac has been named bike of the year for the last 3 years...top of the food chain for race bikes independent of frame size. So what to do. Economics will be in the equation of course...last year's model versus this years. Even though I don't attribute much difference to the rider frame size uniformity claim, my view given a choice is always opt for the latest frameset...especially from Specialized who constantly improves their products. This of course will have a cost. Either bike will be more than stiff enough to handle your most demanding out of the saddle efforts on the hill or in a sprint. The SL4 Tarmac is an amazing bike. The SL5 will probably be even better as noted by the trajectory of all of Specialized products with their excellent R&D.
What you will have to decide is the cost/benefit between both frames and that won't be easy. If the price is close between SL4 and SL5, hands down go for the SL5. If $1K apart, the SL4 is a much better bike than any of us are riders.


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

roadworthy said:


> Nobody here can quantify the difference between the two bikes you are considering and as you state, your query is about being size specific at the smaller end of the frame spectrum. My personal view and only that is...your concern is unfounded. The SL4 Tarmac has been named bike of the year for the last 3 years...top of the food chain for race bikes independent of frame size. So what to do. Economics will be in the equation of course...last year's model versus this years. Even though I don't attribute much difference to the rider frame size uniformity claim, my view given a choice is always opt for the latest frameset...especially from Specialized who constantly improves their products. This of course will have a cost. Either bike will be more than stiff enough to handle your most demanding out of the saddle efforts on the hill or in a sprint. The SL4 Tarmac is an amazing bike. The SL5 will probably be even better as noted by the trajectory of all of Specialized products with their excellent R&D.
> What you will have to decide is the cost/benefit between both frames and that won't be easy. If the price is close between SL4 and SL5, hands down go for the SL5. If $1K apart, the SL4 is a much better bike than any of us are riders.


I would add in availability to be taken into account. Big S is NOTORIOUS for having very long wait times for their better framesets. And 52 isn't the easiest to get. I waited 6 months for mine. Twice.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

ryder07 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm new here. I'm on the verge of building my new bike and is having a dilemma between the 2014 Sworks SL4 or the new rider-first engineered Tarmac.
> 
> ...


I would ride a 52 in that bike as well. I too have concerns about them removing stiffness from the SL4 for the new model for that size. Especially them removing stiffness from the rear triangle claiming that size bike is for people who put out less power. If I were you, I'd go with the SL4. The geometry is the same, so no advantage one way or the other there. The extra couple of centimeters of seatpost vs seattube will probably only be noticable if you are a heavier rider. I am not heavy at all so that's of little benefit to me. And if you are heavier than the softer rear triangle will be of an even bigger detriment to you anyway.

The new Tarmac is not revolutionary. Their rider first principle isn't even revolutionary. Orbea and others have been doing this for years. Hell even the Chinese that make open mold frames do this and they even take it a step further on some frames altering the seat stay design as it gets smaller. The biggest advantage I feel is for larger riders. 

Plus, I'm sure you'll be able to get an SL4 for less than what you'd pay for the new Tarmac. If it's possible I'd ride both. Maybe all this speculation is just that. Maybe you'll actually like a softer rear triangle. Maybe you'll really prefer some detail or another. If possible set the correct seat height/setback and handlebar reach/stack on both and give them a tooling.


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## 1Butcher (Mar 15, 2011)

I think until you ride them both, you will not be able to answer your question. Most people here can't share their experience either [not enough out and the SW version is not out either].

Reducing stiffness may not be a bad thing. We all adjust the air pressure in the tires to suit our needs. Too much air an it is not right, too little will result in the same feeling [not right]. Maybe that's what Specialized is trying to do with their frames.


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## ryder07 (May 21, 2014)

Hi guys, thanks a lot for your reply. I do gained few extra opinions from your thoughts. Since this gonna be my ultimate bike, I'm for sure want to make sure my money is spend on something that's worthy.

If the only selling point for Specialized is a better descending control, I will not be buying the new Tarmac, this is because as much as I love climbing hills like a mountain goat, I descend like a snail.

The thing that makes me confuse is that from the chart comparison of a better power transfer than the SL4. How come by reducing stiffness you can increase a better power transfer?

I also found out that by changing my seat post between sworks and zipp sl speed (both are carbon) plays a major comfort differences. So with the removal of seat post collar from the new Tarmac, no doubt it will affect the comfort positively with more room for seat post to flex.

I'm 60% going for the SL4, but I'm not sure I will be able to buy a brand new 2014 model but with a 2011 design and live with it for the next 3-5 years. That feeling will just make me suffers 

Arghh..


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

ryder07 said:


> Hi guys, thanks a lot for your reply. I do gained few extra opinions from your thoughts. Since this gonna be my ultimate bike, I'm for sure want to make sure my money is spend on something that's worthy.
> 
> If the only selling point for Specialized is a better descending control, I will not be buying the new Tarmac, this is because as much as I love climbing hills like a mountain goat, I descend like a snail.
> 
> ...


First there should be no Arghh...because you can't make a mistake. Either bike are way better than anybody here on the forum..you me or anybody.

Second point is...if you watch the video, the difference between descending speed is .5 mph. It is noise...fairy dust. Put 10 CAT 1 racers on the same bikes and send them down the hill and their descending speed will likely vary by 3-5 mph...much greater than any difference in the bikes.

As to your point in bold, the simple answer is, there are different planes of stiffness. There is lateral stiffness and related rear triangle and BB stiffness. And there is vertical stiffness often referred to as compliance. This is techie...but differentiating section modulus with geometry and layup allows both planes of flex to be different. So a given bike can be softer in the vertical plane and yet be stiffer in the lateral plane and transfer power more efficiently.
If you can wait and afford the SL5, you won't have any regrets. The SL4 is also a great bike. No losers. Me? I would get the SL5.


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## ryder07 (May 21, 2014)

roadworthy said:


> First there should be no Arghh...because you can't make a mistake. Either bike are way better than anybody here on the forum..you me or anybody.
> 
> Second point is...if you watch the video, the difference between descending speed is .5 mph. It is noise...fairy dust. Put 10 CAT 1 racers on the same bikes and send them down the hill and their descending speed will likely vary by 3-5 mph...much greater than any difference in the bikes.
> 
> ...


Hey, suddenly the purchasing option is shifting to 60% SL5 and 40% SL4. Money wise i've been saving up enough cash to get me my ultimate bike, and seems that I couldn't go wrong with the latest and newest model available.

Hey if the pros didn't complaint, why should I? I guess, that's summarized it all. Once the new Tarmac arrived at the LBS, i'll be happy to get one.

Thanks for all the replies guys.


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## Cni2i (Jun 28, 2010)

ryder07 said:


> Hey, suddenly the purchasing option is shifting to 60% SL5 and 40% SL4. Money wise i've been saving up enough cash to get me my ultimate bike, and seems that I couldn't go wrong with the latest and newest model available.
> 
> Hey if the pros didn't complaint, why should I? I guess, that's summarized it all. Once the new Tarmac arrived at the LBS, i'll be happy to get one.
> 
> Thanks for all the replies guys.


If I was in your situation and money wasn't the deciding factor, I'd go for the new Tarmac as well, especially since you'll be keeping her for several years at least. As it stands, I already have an SWSL4 which I sincerely love riding. I just don't see myself noticing much performance difference between the new tarmac and my SL4 to justify getting the new Tarmac. I am 5'8" and weigh 138 lbs, so seat post flex is not a big issue for me...at least I don't notice it. I also agree with roadworthy in regards to the increase descending speed of .5 mph....inconsequential unless you are a serious elite racer. Now, I may get one in 6-12 months just because I want a new frameset . 

Make sure to post pics once you get yours!


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Cni2i said:


> If I was in your situation and money wasn't the deciding factor, I'd go for the new Tarmac as well, especially since you'll be keeping her for several years at least. As it stands, I already have an SWSL4 which I sincerely love riding. I just don't see myself noticing much performance difference between the new tarmac and my SL4 to justify getting the new Tarmac. I am 5'8" and weigh 138 lbs, so seat post flex is not a big issue for me...at least I don't notice it. I also agree with roadworthy in regards to the increase descending speed of .5 mph....inconsequential unless you are a serious elite racer. Now, I may get one in 6-12 months just because I want a new frameset .
> 
> Make sure to post pics once you get yours!


The whole design for rider size is largely bogus and sorry to say marketing fodder. All companies design frame flex for a given weight demographic for each frame size. This has been happening since carbon was invented. However with Specialized utilization of McLaren's tech talent, Speicalized has now refined their metrics for frame flex relative to frame size...an evolution of technology. I have no doubt the new SL5 is a great bike. But it isn't necessarily better for a given rider. For example. Spesh stated for their testing they found the size 61cm to be a bit flexy. For a weaker rider which many are that buy a SL5...or a tall skinny rider that doesn't load the frame the same as a beefy rider, the more flexy SL4 may actually be a better match. So Specialized shifted their metrics based upon a 'range' of weight specific to frame size. This may or may not be directionally correct for a given rider. I believe a bit of this is simply noise honestly. I personally may even prefer a slightly softer size 58 Tarmac SL4 to the new stouter size 58 SL5. Unknowable but likely after two rides wouldn't make a hint of difference. Buy the new bike for the resale down the road and also if you like the paint job better if the price difference isn't too great would be my advice.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

After research, test rides, and some serious internal debate, I have decided to go with the 2015 Tarmac Expert over the 2014/15 Tarmac SL4 Elite, 2014/15 Roubaix Sport of Comp, and 2014/15 Allez Smartweld. It really came down to me having a preference for the stock 2015 Expert Package with 11 Speed Ultegra over the SL4 Elite even with upgraded wheels and a Pave or two bolt seatpost. I just finally accepted that I will likely be happier having the new frame and the Ultegra group even if it means riding the crappy stock wheels for a season than I would with 105 and newer wheels on the older frame. Now, I am waiting to see that the color options are and how long it will take to get one in locally (saving up the extra dough in the meantime).


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Here's one person's thoughts. He's also a member here.

2015 S-works Tarmac [updated 3/6] - Weight Weenies


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## dougrocky123 (Apr 12, 2006)

You have ridden a 2015 Tarmac Expert? I didn't think they were out yet.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

dougrocky123 said:


> You have ridden a 2015 Tarmac Expert? I didn't think they were out yet.


No, I haven't. I am making my decision off of my test of the 2014 and multiple reports that there isn't a huge difference between the 2014 and 2015 (a little more comfort, a little better handling in my size, and a better bottom bracket possibly). A few people and shops do already have their 2015s though. Check out the link I posted from weight weenies above.

Here's the review of the bike I like the best so far:

2015 Specialized Tarmac: Adventures in Redefining Limits ? Peloton


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Here's the original launch presentation if you missed it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKZywmTsVnI


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## LVbob (Mar 24, 2014)

Glad that you were able to make difficult choice (though you couldn't go wrong with any of the choices). One of the reasons I chose the Roubaix Expert was to get the Ultegra bits (didn't like the colors for the Comp). Can't wait to see pics of your new ride.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

LVbob said:


> Glad that you were able to make difficult choice (though you couldn't go wrong with any of the choices). One of the reasons I chose the Roubaix Expert was to get the Ultegra bits (didn't like the colors for the Comp). Can't wait to see pics of your new ride.


Thanks man, it was a tough choice this time around. I really liked each of the bikes (and the higher end Trek Domane bikes) a lot for different reasons, but it eventually became clear that the Tarmac is the one that I liked the most and if I am going to go that route and eventually upgrade to Ultegra 6800 anyway, I figured I might as well go with 2015 and just hold off on wheels. I am at peace with the choice finally. I am hoping that things start to move on these in about a month and a half as rumored. I plan to put my deposit down by August and then we will let the waiting begin....


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Rashadabd said:


> Thanks man, it was a tough choice this time around. I really liked each of the bikes (and the higher end Trek Domane bikes) a lot for different reasons, but it eventually became clear that the Tarmac is the one that I liked the most and if I am going to go that route and eventually upgrade to Ultegra 6800 anyway, I figured I might as well go with 2015 and just hold off on wheels. I am at peace with the choice finally. I am hoping that things start to move on these in about a month and a half as rumored. I plan to put my deposit down by August and then we will let the waiting begin....


You are a thoughtful guy and therefore wanted to share something. As a fling or an affair  I recently stripped Campy off my Roubaix and installed DA 9000. If you are at all focused on ergonomics aka hand comfort, don't go Ultegra 6800....opt for 2015 Campy 11s. I will be going back in 2015. Campy has made some nice tweaks and Athena in particular is going to be a better alternative to Ultegra 6800 which isn't too shabby. FWIW I will run Campy 11s when I go back with Shimano 11s freehub rear wheel, Ultegra 11s cassette and Ultegra chain because of interchangability, price point and functional excellence.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

roadworthy said:


> You are a thoughtful guy and therefore wanted to share something. As a fling or an affair  I recently stripped Campy off my Roubaix and installed DA 9000. If you are at all focused on ergonomics aka hand comfort, don't go Ultegra 6800....opt for 2015 Campy 11s. I will be going back in 2015. Campy has made some nice tweaks and Athena in particular is going to be a better alternative to Ultegra 6800 which isn't too shabby. FWIW I will run Campy 11s when I go back with Shimano 11s freehub rear wheel, Ultegra 11s cassette and Ultegra chain because of interchangability, price point and functional excellence.


Thanks Roadworthy. I will definitely take a look at Campy's latest stuff man.


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## roadworthy (Nov 11, 2011)

Rashadabd said:


> Thanks Roadworthy. I will definitely take a look at Campy's latest stuff man.


As you know, I am technically fussy. Campy ergos still blow DA 9000 out of the water on a number of levels...from hood rubber durometer....Shimano hoods are 'hard', fit, lever shape...largely lack of hard edges...under the shifter, front top and even the lever has much harder edges. The hard metal edge under new DA/Ultegra where the first knuckle resides is absurd in its discomfort. I can ride a century on Campy without gloves and much less pleasant with Shimano's even new and improved DA and Ultegra.

I will add, I have no grudge against Shimano. New DA/Ultegra is possibly the best shifting I have ever experienced on a road bike. By contrast DA/Ultegra shifters feel like $h!t compared to Campy and Campy's shifting is excellent but have to say how impressed I am with the shift quality of new Shimano.


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## darwinosx (Oct 12, 2010)

I better not ride Campy....would not want to spoil my unnatural love for Ultegra 6800...


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