# The problem with MIPS helmets



## MMsRepBike

Okay, first off let me quickly explain MIPS. It's two helmets in one. An inner shell that can rotate freely against the normal helmet. Here is the inside of a POC helmet with MIPS:


















And above you can see just the MIPS inner shell by itself with the pads stuck to it. Here is how the system works:









Great idea right? Could be, haven't found out for myself yet. In theory this seems great and safe. Yes, it's a little heavier. Yes, the inner shell can make wind noise at high speed on some helmets. But there's another issue.

Funk.

I was JRA wearing my MIPS equipped helmet and could smell a funk when my head was down. It was coming from either my glasses, helmet or head covering. When I got home I found it was the helmet.

But I just washed the helmet the previous day. Seriously. Just washed it really well in the shower. Here is the problem:


In order for the MIPS inner shell to glide freely against the foam of the helmet, it needs pads. You know the soft side of velcro? Those pads are stuck all over the place in between the inner MIPS shell and the inside of the helmet. They allow the inner shell to move freely. Well guess what? They soak up sweat and hold it. Guess what else? You can't clean them without peeling up the inner MIPS shell.


So... all MIPS helmets are VERY vulnerable to serious funk. And it's not very easy to peel back the inner shell, scrub the little pads, rinse them and keep the shell peeled back long enough to dry them. I have to use a paper clip to hold the shell away from the helmet, can't be good for it.

So keep an eye out for funk in your MIPS equipped helmet, don't let it get you. On some helmets is much worse than others, just be vigilant.


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## Camilo

I don't think I understand. Is it something we can see in the photos you posted - Are you talking about the orange pads stuck to the yellow part in your photo, or is there something else stuck to the yellow part, on the other side that's not showing in your photo? If it's something stuck to the yellow part, can't you just remove the whole yellow part like you did for the photo and wash it? 

Or are they stuck to the foam on the inside of the helmet itself? Same question for that - why couldn't you just remove the yellow part like you did for your photo and wash whatever is stuck to the helmet?


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## MMsRepBike

No, you cannot see them in the photos posted.

No, the orange pads are the removable pads in all helmets.

Nothing else is stuck to the yellow part.

They are stuck to the foam on the inside of the helmet.

You can't just remove the yellow part, like in the photo, it's not my photo, it's a promo photo of a helmet torn apart.

I'm guessing you don't own a MIPS helmet.


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## Charlie the Unicorn

I've been using a POC MIPS helmet for months now, including riding in the northeast soup weather we've been having lately and I'm not having this problem.


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## MMsRepBike

I think the POC helmets are the best in this category. If you peel back your MIPS liner you will find tiny little patches/stickers/velcro spots. Very small and spread out pretty well. On the helmet I'm using, the Giro Foray it's a totally different story. The patches/stickers/velcro spots are all over the place and some are enormous. Probably literally 100x the surface area as what's in the POC helmets.

So with POC you've gotten lucky with this problem, their design seems to now allow for many or for large little lubrication patches. But with Giro I got screwed pretty bad.


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## Marc

MMsRepBike said:


> _*I think the POC helmets are the best in this category. If you peel back your MIPS liner you will find tiny little patches/stickers/velcro spots*_. Very small and spread out pretty well. On the helmet I'm using, the Giro Foray it's a totally different story. The patches/stickers/velcro spots are all over the place and some are enormous. Probably literally 100x the surface area as what's in the POC helmets.
> 
> So with POC you've gotten lucky with this problem, their design seems to now allow for many or for large little lubrication patches. But with Giro I got screwed pretty bad.


Yea...MIPS from a basic design standpoint is snakeoil intended to make patent-holder MIPS Inc lots of money....and make helmet manufacturers lots of money by getting consumers to self-obsolete their helmets.

MIPS and Sliding Resistance of Bicycle Helmets

That POC, like all MIPS helmets are not even properly designed/implemented according to MIPS....and MIPS being concerned with $$$$$$$$$$$$ first, doesn't care. They get their money $$$$$ and are happy.


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## Jay Strongbow

MMsRepBike said:


> In theory this seems great and safe. Yes, it's a little heavier.


In theory to me it seems to accomplish the same thing wearing a helmet a size or two too big would accomplish.


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## Marc

Jay Strongbow said:


> In theory to me it seems to accomplish the same thing wearing a helmet a size or two too big would accomplish.


The thing about MIPS, per my link above, is that it is based on the theory of slip-planes....and it _*assumes *_that all bicycle helmets (unlike football helmets) cannot and do not slip plane already. Now, anyone who's ever had a bicycle helmet run into something can tell you that no matter how much you tighten down the straps on a helmet such that the wearer cannot breathe, it will always change position AKA be disheveled AKA slip-plane in a crash. 

It might not be a lot, but the MIPS helmets cannot slip plane alot either.

Which is why MIPS is more likely than not snakeoil from a sheer design theory standpoint....and then OEMs and manufacturers screw it up even further. The POC pictured up above is not really MIPS at all. It lacks MIPS in mos of the back hemisphere of the helmet. Further due to the ventilation holes necessary the liner is likely to bind up velcro interference or no. ALl MIPS helmets tend to have the same exact design and implementation problems-and MIPS Inc does not care. They get their patent royalties and they're fat and happy


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## vic bastige

One man's funk is another man's treasure.

I'll stick with my run of the mill Aeon thank you very much.


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## Charlie the Unicorn

This is funny. I'm glad it hasn't devolved into a tit for tat argument. My favorite part (for me) is I bought a non-MIPS octal in black and liked it so much I wanted a white one as well. I bought the MIPS version because I liked the way it looked. MIPS shnips, cost me about 10 dollars more than the other one.


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## SwiftSolo

I also don't have this problem with the POC mips. I do, however, have a problem with the helmet straps and my Oakley sunglasses. When the straps exit out of the bottom of the shell they create problems with the glasses and the Garmin Varia Vision heads-up display device. Had to go back to my old Specialized helmet


Charlie the Unicorn said:


> I've been using a POC MIPS helmet for months now, including riding in the northeast soup weather we've been having lately and I'm not having this problem.


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## OldZaskar

To Marc's point, the jury is out on whether MIPs helmet is even as good as a non-MIPs helmet - because of that slip plane factor. To get the MIPs pieces in the helmet, either the helmet has to be bigger, or material has to be reduced... impact absorbing material. 

There's some info on the helmet website, but this sort of sums it up: "'A Snell Memorial Foundation employee was quoted as saying that in her opinion MIPS is "snake oil to get people to spend money."

MIPS and Sliding Resistance of Bicycle Helmets


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## Camilo

MMsRepBike said:


> No, you cannot see them in the photos posted.
> 
> No, the orange pads are the removable pads in all helmets.
> 
> Nothing else is stuck to the yellow part.
> 
> They are stuck to the foam on the inside of the helmet.
> 
> You can't just remove the yellow part, like in the photo, it's not my photo, it's a promo photo of a helmet torn apart.
> 
> I'm guessing you don't own a MIPS helmet.


Of course I don't own one thus the questions I ask. Good luck with your problem.


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## MerlinAma

SwiftSolo said:


> ... I do, however, have a problem with the helmet straps and my Oakley sunglasses. When the straps exit out of the bottom of the shell they create problems with the glasses...


Yep. I really wanted a POC but a riding buddy warned me about the Oakley issue. So I stayed Giro at half the price.


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## HyperCycle

I just a purchased a new MIPS helmet this past weekend. I've only rode with it for 40 miles... so far, so good. No stench yet.


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## Lombard

Do you wear a skull cap underneath your helmet? This will absorb a lot of the sweat and may help prevent the funk.


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## MMsRepBike

Sure do. Started using one of those sweat buster pad things too. Doesn't matter. The amount of sweat we're talking here is pretty epic. This summer has been less than kind.

The Giro Foray Mips has no less than 20 of these sweat sucking little anti friction pads between the mips shell and the foam of the helmet. Some of these 20 pads are pretty gigantic and some are quite long. They're all over the damn place. Helmet just started to show signs of re funkifying today, so again I had to scrub down those pads and keep the mips liner peeled up enough for the fan to dry everything out.

For this helmet anyway, and for my conditions and such, I think it's just too much. A switch back to an Aeon or something might be in order. Pain in my arse.


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## Lombard

MMsRepBike said:


> For this helmet anyway, and for my conditions and such, I think it's just too much. A switch back to an Aeon or something might be in order. Pain in my arse.


You do mean a pain in your nose, don't you? :wink5:

With our summers the way they are and my tendency to sweat a great deal, I don't think I'll be buying one of those.


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## mtrac

This has been an interesting thread, particularly the link Marc posted. Helmets have been a sore point with me since fracturing my skull and breaking my neck in an accident. Strangely, I never got concussion symptoms.

I thought MIPS might be worthwhile but it looks like it could provide even less impact resistance than a traditional helmet while not offering additional rotation protection. I always wear a headsweat or cold-weather garment and that would seem a low-tech approach to accomplishing the same thing.


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## kbwh

And now POC is abandoning MIPS.


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## DrSmile

I'm bald, does that mean my head is MIPS self-equipped?


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## kbwh

I'd say rather the opposite. Hair works a lot like both Mips and Spin. Sorry.


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## Fredrico

DrSmile said:


> I'm bald, does that mean my head is MIPS self-equipped?


Researchers agree, in Marc's link:

_Helmets are not coupled closely to the head, and *will slip anyway.* The scalp (nature's MIPS) ensures that, and skin does not stick to EPS much, given sweat, hair, hair products and sunscreen. (The Koroyd "straws" pioneered by Smith Optics helmets might be a different story, given their known ability to abrade skin in a crash.) So the tendency for the helmet to *slide on the user's head and to slide on pavement or other impact surfaces is substantial.*_

https://helmets.org/mips.htm


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## .je

DrSmile said:


> I'm bald, does that mean my head is MIPS self-equipped?


could not instead you slather your scalp with lard, or coconut oil? No need of MIPS?


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## Fredrico

.je said:


> could not instead you slather your scalp with lard, or coconut oil? No need of MIPS?


Sweat lubricated skull cap does the job. :thumbsup: If you still have hair on top, even better!


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## BCSaltchucker

kbwh said:


> And now POC is abandoning MIPS.


my question is, when are they going to stop re-purposing hockey helmets for cycling??


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## kbwh

Hockey helmets an cycling helmets seem quite different to me. Please explain.


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## GlobalGuy

kbwh said:


> Hockey helmets an cycling helmets seem quite different to me. Please explain.


Hockey helmets come off much easier during fights.


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## kbwh

But of course. I'll take me coat.


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## PBL450

I’ve long been on the MIPS is snake oil bandwagon, even when folks here were punching me in the kidneys about it. From a safety standpoint, if someone, some company, some research group comes to understand the dynamics of head injuries in collisions we won’t be reading about it in a cycling forum. Impact generated head injuries are a big deal, to cycling, to football, to auto racing to ice hockey to....

The funk thing would kill me... I’m a bit of a clean freak, and that would be something that would have me changing helmets right away. Thanks fo pr the warning! My conventional Bontrager helmet, with some, but not a ton of maintenance, has no funk issues at all. I’m grateful.


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## Marc

tri876 said:


> Is there any difference between tri helmets and road helmets when it comes to MIPS? I found a solid review on a tri helmet I want *but I would imagine MIPS is the same across all bike helmets correct?*


Nope. Everyone implements MIPS differently. Some helmets have only had MIPS on the front hemisphere of the helmet and not the back, even.


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## GlobalGuy

Personally, I think the quality of the data, as well as the interpretation for MIPS, is suspect. (Suspect, not dishonest.) The best case scenario is MIPS may or may not offer extra protection with your helmet.


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## desaljs

I have 2 MIPS equipped helmets I have been using through an entire cycling season. I do wash out my helmet after every ride, just using warm water, and let them dry out. No funk I can detect. I think if you rinse out a helmet after riding, the funk might not be an issue. I can only speak to my experience. The helmet is a Giro Synthe.


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