# Push back on saddle during hard efforts



## mjdwyer23 (Mar 18, 2009)

Hi Folks-
Recently, I've noticed that, during hard seated efforts (>400w), I slide way back on the saddle to the point where I feel the very back of the saddle under my sit bones. Is this a fit problem, or is it just what happens? My normal position is comfortable and low up front. Thanks for the help.


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## namaSSte (Jul 28, 2004)

mjdwyer23 said:


> Hi Folks-
> Recently, I've noticed that, during hard seated efforts (>400w), I slide way back on the saddle to the point where I feel the very back of the saddle under my sit bones. Is this a fit problem, or is it just what happens? My normal position is comfortable and low up front. Thanks for the help.


hmmm, this is odd to me but would depend on whether you mean climbing or a TT/hard effort on the flats. On climbs, I tend to be on the middle of the saddle, and sometimes even back a touch. In a TT or hard effort on the flats, I'm usually up on the nose.


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## DMH2979 (May 24, 2011)

namaSSte said:


> I'm usually up on the nose.


That's why it's called "being on the rivet" -- agreed, going hard on flats/TT I am "on the rivet"


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

DMH2979 said:


> That's why it's called "being on the rivet" -- agreed, going hard on flats/TT I am "on the rivet"


yeah...

OTR means being on the nose of the saddle.

from Wiki:

on the rivet
Describes a rider who is riding at maximum speed. When riding at maximum power output, a road racer often perches on the front tip of the saddle (seat), where the shell of an old-style leather saddle would be attached to the saddle frame with a rivet.


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## winstonw (Apr 27, 2011)

It will depend on your bike fit and back flexibility. 

If you have your saddle set quite forwards, and then you move your head down and forwards to get more aero in the drops, your centre of gravity may move so far forwards you feel a need to slide your butt back to get your c.o.g. back over the pedal downstroke. Centre of gravity relative to pedal stroke is something not talked about a lot in bike fit, but for big efforts some believe it is critical to get cog over the pedals, even when seated.

I'd add you should not be sitting on your sit bones during hard efforts, unless you are climbing. You should be tilting your pelvis anteriorally and putting the weight on your ischiopubic rami. If you feel your weight mostly on your ITs, ensure your saddle nose is not tilted downwards.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

What's your cadence doing when you slide back? If I'm on the trainer doing big gear intervals, I tend to slide back instead of forward.


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## Canaboo (Jan 7, 2010)

In other words fit is grossly over-rated and a bit of a cash grab in the cycling industry.
If you are climbing all over a six inch range of "fit" while on a typical ride, that is.


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## bikerjohn64 (Feb 9, 2012)

I think sliding back on your saddle during hard efforts would be normal. Consider that during hard effort your leg is pushing the pedals not straight down but forward on an angle (between the 4&5 o'clock position). Think leg press machines. 
This action causes the opposite reaction pushing your butt towards the rear of the saddle looking for a surface to push against. 
I don't think this has anything to do with needing a fit. IMO; the saddle has three positions. The nose; the neutral middle and the back. 
I've been fit and still use all three positions depending on what I'm riding or trying to achieve during my ride.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Specialized makes a saddle that has the back portion curved up a bit, and this provides your butt from slicking back. Maybe this is your ticket?


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

I also have a question to all of you who sit on the nose of your seat? Does this not hurt your balls? Seriously, how in the world do you sit on a 1-inch wide plank without hurting your manhood region? Sitting on the nose means that you can't use your sit bones (2 of them), correct? So that means you're sitting on soft tissue around the scrotum/crotch area, and doesn't this damage the nerve that gives you pleasure when in bed??

I've tried the nose thing, and after a 10 mile ride, I was numb in bed for a day. Not doing it ever again. So I don't know how you guys do it.


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## bikerjohn64 (Feb 9, 2012)

aclinjury said:


> Specialized makes a saddle that has the back portion curved up a bit, and this provides your butt from slicking back. Maybe this is your ticket?


^^Romin saddles^^
It's what I use and does the job for me. Not for everyone so try it to see if it works for you or not. The dealers will have trial saddles available.


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

mjdwyer23 said:


> Hi Folks-
> Recently, I've noticed that, during hard seated efforts (>400w), I slide way back on the saddle to the point where I feel the very back of the saddle under my sit bones. Is this a fit problem, or is it just what happens? My normal position is comfortable and low up front. Thanks for the help.


That's interesting as most people will pull themselves forward in the saddle when they push more watts.

So I'd guess that your bike is not long enough. You can try to remedy this with either more saddle setback and/or a longer stem.


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## Seagoon (Nov 22, 2009)

If you go on the rivet on hard efforts either your seat is too high or your stem is too long or a combination
of both and if you are going off the back of the seat on hard efforts your seat height is a bit too low with
maybe a too short a stem or both.


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## PowerGoat (Jul 2, 2012)

*push back on saddle/muscles used*

Cool. I was about to ask a related question.

When setting up a triathlete, they always talk about bringing the seat forward to make a "steeper" seat angle. It would seem that this is because being more forward engages the quads more and being back engages the glutes (and hamstrings?) more. Maybe this is tied into the moving back question. Moving back makes the work phase more like a leg press and uses the glutes more; moving forward makes the distance from hips to feet smaller and encourages spinning a faster cadence (and I guess this uses less glute and so more quad). Triathletes talk about wanting to "save the hamstrings and glutes" for the run and so try to use their quads more while biking. How does that sound?


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

PowerGoat said:


> Cool. I was about to ask a related question.
> 
> When setting up a triathlete, they always talk about bringing the seat forward to make a "steeper" seat angle. It would seem that this is because being more forward engages the quads more and being back engages the glutes (and hamstrings?) more. Maybe this is tied into the moving back question. Moving back makes the work phase more like a leg press and uses the glutes more; moving forward makes the distance from hips to feet smaller and encourages spinning a faster cadence (and I guess this uses less glute and so more quad). Triathletes talk about wanting to "save the hamstrings and glutes" for the run and so try to use their quads more while biking. How does that sound?


Never thought about it that way, but it does make sense.


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## winstonw (Apr 27, 2011)

PowerGoat said:


> How does that sound?


Triathletes, like ITT riders, prioritize an aerodynamic position. That means getting the back flatter....which causes a smaller hip jt angle....which reduces the power hip flexors can generate, and compromises smoother force generation at higher cadences through the whole pedal stroke.

The above results in prioritizing 
- a low back angle for more aero position
- a lower cadence reliant more so on quads

The other advantage of a more forwards position, and the reason many road cyclists slide forwards with big efforts is they are trying to get their centre of gravity over the pedal stroke from 1 o'clock to 5 0'clock. Having cog here results in bodyweight (or force) applying 100% vertical force vector to the pedals. If cog is further back, then bodyweight force is split between pedals and saddle (the latter making no contribution to power.) 

One technique for setting saddle setback for triathletes is to get the tibial tuberosity over the front tip of the shoe (as opposed to the pedal axle).


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