# What is this bike worth? - Nishiki 'Landau Tri-A' Vintage 12 speed Road Bike



## dmick002

What is this bike really worth? 
Immaculate Nishiki 'Landau Tri-A' Vintage 12 speed Road Bike

I want a bike to get started with and figure what I like/need and then hopefully build my own. Let me know what you guys think since I'm new at this. Thanks.


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## MXL

Nishikis are great bikes! I have an 85 Olympic 12 that I road today - what a plush ride with 27s at 90-100 lbs. Depending on condition, I'd say between $100-$400. Though a little on the heavy side, they are a lot of bang for the buck and better built than most bikes made today. It will out last you!


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## dmick002

I'm totally new/ignorant to what I should and shouldn't be spending on a bike, can you take a look at the link I posted? Or anyone? Seller is asking $475


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## SOME_1_ELSE_1999

Get it before I do!


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## dmick002

Anyone have any input on what the bike is truly worth, pending condition?


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## martinrjensen

Nishiki's are not highly collectible so the $475 might be a bit high. It is made with Tange 1 tubing though so it's probably a top of the line frame from them. I had an Olympic and it was nothing special but this is looking way better than that.
If you get it for $475.00 you might be paying a little too much but not a lot too much so I would offer him a bit less and see what he says. It's on Craigslist so make an offer like $350 , he will probably counter offer and then you guys can split the difference. It's actually a nice looking bike


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## AdamM

Greatly overpriced - imo. An awful choice for your first road bike. 

For some of us who raced them back in the day vintage bikes have a small bit of sentimental value, but the truth is that the current era of equipment at all levels performs much better than the top of the line stuff from 30 years ago. Take the $450 and visit the local bike shops and get an entry level ride sized right. I'm sure they'll have closeouts this time of the season.


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## NJgreyhead

Agreed that the bike is way overpriced. Typical oversell by an owner with emotional attachment. And I like and own a Nishiki.


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## dmick002

Thanks guys. Now what about a Centurion Ironman that I found locally? How much should one expect to pay for that?


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## AdamM

> Now what about a Centurion Ironman that I found locally


More vintage cr#p that I'd strongly recommend staying away from at any price. It's not the model. It's that most of those vintage bikes you see on craigslist or locally are on the other side of some significant improvements in bike performance that are most helpful for new riders such as yourself. You want a properly fitted bike with STI shifting and at least nine speeds on the rear cassette. You can get that for the same price that you're ready to pay for the old vintage junk that you're flirting with on craigslist.


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## Oxtox

dmick002 said:


> Thanks guys. Now what about a Centurion Ironman that I found locally? How much should one expect to pay for that?


depending upon condition, in my area they go for $200-400-ish.

they're decent bikes...one of my current riding partners has one.

ignore the silly admonition that you MUST have STI, 9-speed, blah blah...people rode millions of miles on Nishikis, Centurions, and other 'vintage crap' with no problems.


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## davcruz

I have no idea who these respondents are to your thread, but most are not typical retro-classic posters from this site. They seem like the carbon groupies to me, not that there is anything wrong with carbon (I have two of them) but there is also nothing wrong with steel and down-tube shifters either. If you spend $475 on a new road bike you will be getting the absolute bottom of the barrel components that are made mostly of plastic. There is a reason that Tri-A is on the road today and working and looking good, it was quality, not the crap that $475 buys you today. Someone said to get STI which is fine, but that Shimano 600 group is indexed and is a high quality group.

That Nishiki appears to be in excellent condition. Tange 1 is a great tube set and the Tri-A was a great bike when new and will be a comfortable and worthy ride. The price is a bit high, I agree with the previous post that said to offer $350 and I would not go past $375 personally.


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## wim

davcruz said:


> there is also nothing wrong with steel and down-tube shifters either. If you spend $475 on a new road bike you will be getting the absolute bottom of the barrel components that are made mostly of plastic.


Agree 100%. As a caution note: there's no frame size given in the ad. But judging from the length of the headtube, it's a very large bike, something near 60 cm. Make sure you can even ride it in terms of fit.


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## Quattro_Assi_07

AdamM said:


> More vintage cr#p that I'd strongly recommend staying away from at any price. It's not the model. It's that most of those vintage bikes you see on craigslist or locally are on the other side of some significant improvements in bike performance that are most helpful for new riders such as yourself. You want a properly fitted bike with STI shifting and at least nine speeds on the rear cassette. You can get that for the same price that you're ready to pay for the old vintage junk that you're flirting with on craigslist.


Let me see if I got this straight. You come onto a vintage forum and say "More vintage cr#p that I'd strongly recommend staying away from at any price."

Unreal.  Either you are a troll or you've never experienced the ride from a quality classic steel framed bike yourself. Don't even bring up performance. For most people the bike is for getting from point A to point B. Anyway, its the engine that drives the bike, not the other way around. If you are slow on a steel frame, you will be slow on carbon. It makes no difference to the average cyclist. Fitment is relevant whether it is a modern bike or vintage. If it doesn't fit, you will have problems whichever way you decide to go. STI shifters? Seriously, they are not needed. 9 speeds are needed? Says who? You? Get real. Most newbies to cycling seldom use the full gear range of a modern bike anyway. I have everything from 6 speed up to 10 speed and I have no problem keeping up with anyone.

If the OP can get that bike for $300 or maybe a little more, there is no way he will find anything in that price range currently made that is not low end or entry level. I would even go so far as to say, what he does find will be chinese made cr#p. 

Why all of posts from the anti-retro, plastic framed, STI shifting, 9+ speed coolaid drinkers? This is a RETRO-CLASSIC forum folks. Go back and re-read the tiltle at the top of the header. I've got an idea, :idea: if you think your ideas of what makes a great bike are that it be made of plastic, have STI and 9 speeds or more are relevant here, think again and then go post that nonsense on the other forums. That would be like me going on a political forum for X'ers and telling everyone what cr#p X'ers are and why you should all be Ys! 

To the OP, if the bike fits, and everything works, then $300-$400 seems a fair price and don't listen to the trolls. And if it works out and you eventually want to move to a modern bike, then you will have a quality spare when you need it. See how much that chinese made, $500 entry level, plastic frame/entry level components bike is worth after a couple years of use. Not much. In five years you'll be able to sell that Nishiki for a $200 or so. Not bad if you ask me. :thumbsup:


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## tailgunn

I second the opinion that if yer gonna spend $475 for a brand new bike, it will be bottom of the barrel, at least components-wise, and you may regret it. However, if yer willing to spend that you could get something used with a good aluminum frame and decent STI components that you would be happy with...If yer after vintage, shop around. Don't get all wet over a particular bike, there will be another good deal just around the corner. A friend just bought a used Trek 400 or 420 that was in PERFECT condition for $175. Steel frame, downtube shifters...if it had been my size I would have bought it.
I ride an old aluminum Schwinn 594 with 7 gears and downtube shifters and I can pretty much keep up with and even sometimes lead the carbon fiber fancy boys on group rides- and I paid $120 for it!


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## laffeaux

I tend to agree with CycoBob. I own and ride several older bikes (mountain and road). I enjoy riding, re-building, and tinkering with old bikes. However, when my wife wanted to buy a bike, I didn't go looking for a vintage bike. She's new to riding (other than riding her cruiser) and I wanted her to enjoy the sport. For about $800 we got new 105-equipped Raleigh women-specific aluminum-framed bike purchased from a local shop. It's new, it's shiny, and it's easy to ride.

Vintage bikes have their place. Some of us love to ride them. Anyone that wants to own a bike that will be used to run to the corner store and back would love one. But (in my opinion) a new rider looking to get into the "sport" of cycling is likely better off getting a new(ish) bike.


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## davcruz

CycoBob, this is just flat out nonsense. This guy is wrong, period, and he even says he is a noob which is quite obvious. Sora is mostly plastic low end components. I have replaced and adjusted Sora RD's for many folks, they are fine for what they are but high end they are not and the 600 Tri-Color group on that Nishiki is far better quality and only 3 less cogs in the back, unless you are riding in the mountains or in just flat out terrible shape that will not make a huge difference.

Secondly, a $359 bike is generally speaking not even going to be a full Sora bike but more likely 2200 series, which is junk. A $359 bike is going to have very heavy wheels and a very low end crank-set and it will weigh darn close to what that Nishiki weighs if not the same amount or more.

OP, you came here for opinions on the price of the Nishiki and I agree it is a tad high even by CA standards, but it is a great machine if it has been maintained and will probably be a nice ride for you. Go check it out first hand, make sure it fits well (cause that is a big frame) and make sure it is working well.


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## davcruz

laffeaux said:


> I tend to agree with CycoBob. I own and ride several older bikes (mountain and road). I enjoy riding, re-building, and tinkering with old bikes. However, when my wife wanted to buy a bike, I didn't go looking for a vintage bike. She's new to riding (other than riding her cruiser) and I wanted her to enjoy the sport. For about $800 we got new 105-equipped Raleigh women-specific aluminum-framed bike purchased from a local shop. It's new, it's shiny, and it's easy to ride.
> 
> Vintage bikes have their place. Some of us love to ride them. Anyone that wants to own a bike that will be used to run to the corner store and back would love one. But (in my opinion) a new rider looking to get into the "sport" of cycling is likely better off getting a new(ish) bike.


Now this I agree with, but a 105 equipped bike is far different from a Sora/2200 equipped bike.


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## laffeaux

CycoBob said:


> And an aluminum frame, carbon-forked bike is a lot more comfortable than an old steel bike, which probably has very heavy steel wheels (The wheels on my $359 bike may not be top of the line, but they are aluminum, and fairly light- and I guarantee you they are better than what's on that Nishiki!).


I'd not be so sure of that. Inexpensive modern aluminum frames are heavy. The Nishiki was a pretty nice bike back in the day, and has aluminum rims (not steel ones). As far as weight goes I'll bet the Nishiki is lighter. For ride comfort, one would need to ride both to see which was better.


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## Oxtox

CycoBob said:


> And an aluminum frame, carbon-forked bike is a lot more comfortable than an old steel bike, which probably has very heavy steel wheels (The wheels on my $359 bike may not be top of the line, but they are aluminum, and fairly light- and I guarantee you they are better than what's on that Nishiki!)


seriously, you're talking out of your butt here.


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## Quattro_Assi_07

Oxtox said:


> seriously, you're talking out of your butt here.


I am glad someone said this. Seriously, the OP comes on a vintage forum asking about a vintage bike and the carbon trolls come flying out of the woodwork. I take the OP to be an adult and as such, he must have a reason for not buying the cheapest aluminum "brifter" equiped bike from the get go.  I have bikes with evrything from early 80s Dura Ace AX to 7800 Dura Ace to SRAM Red, and I have no problem going from one to another or riding 100+ miles on my 8 speed, Superbe Pro, downtube shifter equiped Zullo steel POS clunker!  Seriously, who f'in rides their hoods all the time? I am begining to wonder exactly who the noob is here? :thumbsup:


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## laffeaux

CycoBob said:


> You may be right- but I don't know. What do you think that Nishiki weighs? My $359 AL/carbon weighs 24 lbs (With pedals, without seatbag and pump)


I'd guess that the Nishiki was in the 21-23 pound range, which was typical of bikes of that era.


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## Quattro_Assi_07

CycoBob said:


> You may be right- but I don't know. What do you think that Nishiki weighs? My $359 AL/carbon weighs 24 lbs (With pedals, without seatbag and pump)
> 
> May be right about the rims too....but I dunno- even the AL rims back then were pretty heavy. In most cases, today's bottom-end stuff is better than 30 year-old top-end.
> 
> And it is very unlikely (even if the Nishiki is in great shape) that the OP could buy it and just ride it. It's gonna need work/parts.
> 
> This thread should never have been moved to the retro-classic section....'cause most people who post in this section are going to advocate vintage bikes, merely because THEY like them- even if they're impractical for a noob/average rider.


You talk like weight (or lack of it) is the end all, be all. And no, aluminum rims "back then" are NOT pretty heavy. Where are you coming from? I'll tell you what, I have sets of older vintage 80s wheels that may weigh more than the flimsy light weight wheels being specced on today's lower end bikes, but at the end of the day, they will last many more trouble free miles than the light-weight, cheaply made wheels you will find on a $400, entry level bike. Also, I'll take the ride of a heavier steel frame any day of the week over a cheap entry level aluminum frame, even with a carbon fork. There is a reason aluminum frames and carbon forks go together. I'll give you a hint, it has to do with the ride quality or lack there of.


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## oldtrek716

Just my two cents and all....but, my father had a Nishiki and a Trek from the 80's. Both were/are great bikes. He sold the Nishiki in the 90's but held on to the Trek. I recently road it for the 40 mile Panther course of the Blue Ridge Breakaway. Passed all but 4 on this ride....and one of the 4 was riding an 80's Peugot. Classic steel, if taken care of, is just about the most dependable and longest lasting stuff on the road. Not to mention the fact that I can fix most of the components roadside if something was to go wrong with minimal tools and hassle. Yes, I own a modern road bike....and yes, I race predominantly with it. But, ask yourself what drew you to these bikes in the first place. Are you looking for an around town fixie to be the envy of your local coffee shop or are you interrsted in a "real" classic roadie and plan to treat it as a bit of rideable history. Or are you looking for a "beater bike" to be left in the rain? All questions you should ask before even thinking about price. Also...as for the NIshiki, probably in the $350-400 range if the frame is solid...ie, no wrecks and unbent. Happy hunting and Cheers


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## davcruz

CycoBob said:


> How so, other than aesthetics and maybe an ounce or two less weight?(Which means absolutely nothing).
> 
> Sora may be low-end, but junk? LOL- mine works perfectly (For that matter, my old department store bikes as a child even worked fine, as I kept them in adjustment and lubed).
> 
> Sorry, but Sora brifters are a LOT more comfortable than the old-style brake hoods, and a LOT more functional than downtube shifters.
> 
> And an aluminum frame, carbon-forked bike is a lot more comfortable than an old steel bike, which probably has very heavy steel wheels (The wheels on my $359 bike may not be top of the line, but they are aluminum, and fairly light- and I guarantee you they are better than what's on that Nishiki!)
> 
> I don't care about the number of cogs- I rarely use all 8 of mine- and I live in hilly terrain. Although if OP has hills to contend with, a 39/54 with 11/25 cassette will be a ride killer! (Which is one reason why I'm glad I didn't go retro- as that right there would have killed the sport for me immediately).
> 
> I'd prefer a 1972 Chevy Impala to just about any modern car...but I wouldn't recommend one to the average person- but that is basically what you are doing here. Vintage bikes are cool. Their value can be debated- but encouraging a noob to get one as his only ride? Very foolish. I may be a noob, but I'm not stupid. YOU should have more sense, being a seasoned rider.


I said that 22/2300 is junk and it is, Sora is reasonably competent but it is mainly all plastic parts which does not always mean longevity.

You can argue comfort all day long but it is personal preference. I prefer STI over downtube but the 600 index system on this bike is a good one.

An aluminum frame is not generally more comfortable than a steel frame, carbon fork or not. Most riders will hands down tell you steel is more comfortable than any aluminum but I am sure it is subjective.

Lastly I have plenty of sense and I answered the OP's question which maybe you should re-read. He wants to know the value of the bike, not if it is good or recommended for him or anything of the like. He also says this is just to ride in the interim until he builds a bike.


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## tailgunn

I don't think anyone is advocating buying vintage at an inflated price, just for the sake of buying vintage. I ride vintage because I can get reliable stuff for bargain price, can go as fast as anyone if I'm willing to work at it, and have money left over for other things like motorcycle racing. 
Plus, you can put plenty of modern stuff on a vintage bike. I am currently building a farily light steel Diamondback with a mixture of old and modern parts. I'll have more gears and comfortable hoods! All for about $300.


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## andyfloyd

To answer the OP's question I wouldnt pay more than 300-325 for that Nishiki. Its not as collectable as some other vintage rides. Its on par with my Centurion Ironman Master and I got that for 275. So I wouldnt go much more than that. I have ridden steel and aluminum and let me tell you that steel is a lot more confortable and I think it just looks neater than aluminum. Steel absorbs road bumps, aluminum doesnt...an aluminum bike will "wear" on you more.


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## dmick002

Thanks for all of the input and enthusiasm. All this back and forth is indeed helping me make my decision. The end goal is to learn more about bikes so that I can make a better decision, one from experience, in what I need/want out of a new and expensive road bike. I have a relatively budget but I want to make sure I know and appreciate what I'll be paying for first. I've also considered building my own but like I said, I'm a total novice so it would be pointless to invest a bunch of time and money into something that I am ignorant of. 

Also, the bike will be used mainly for to and from work and errands close and local and an occasional longer weekend ride. The plan for the bike is short-term and transitional. That being said, after further research, I found that it is too pricey for what it is. I took a look a the Centurion Ironman today and it is in relatively good shape. It will need a new rear shifter so that will be replaced before I buy it and it will need new tires. I fit well on it, it's local, it will do its job and for about $200, I think it makes sense dollar-wise as well. 

I'd like to have a new bike but buying a $400-$500 on an entry that will depreciate by Xdollars and will not be what I'm looking for in the end, doesn't make sense to me. I'm kind of leaning towards building my own bike anyways--once I gain a little knowledge.


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## Quattro_Assi_07

dmick002 said:


> Thanks for all of the input and enthusiasm. All this back and forth is indeed helping me make my decision. The end goal is to learn more about bikes so that I can make a better decision, one from experience, in what I need/want out of a new and expensive road bike. I have a relatively budget but I want to make sure I know and appreciate what I'll be paying for first. I've also considered building my own but like I said, I'm a total novice so it would be pointless to invest a bunch of time and money into something that I am ignorant of.
> 
> Also, the bike will be used mainly for to and from work and errands close and local and an occasional longer weekend ride. The plan for the bike is short-term and transitional. That being said, after further research, I found that it is too pricey for what it is. I took a look a the Centurion Ironman today and it is in relatively good shape. It will need a new rear shifter so that will be replaced before I buy it and it will need new tires. I fit well on it, it's local, it will do its job and for about $200, I think it makes sense dollar-wise as well.
> 
> I'd like to have a new bike but buying a $400-$500 on an entry that will depreciate by Xdollars and will not be what I'm looking for in the end, doesn't make sense to me. I'm kind of leaning towards building my own bike anyways--once I gain a little knowledge.


Wise decision. :thumbsup: Sounds like the choice of a used steel framed bike is exactly what meets your needs. The good thing about old steel is two fold, unlike carbon it can take a bit of abuse and not let you down when you need it and it is less likely to be stolen. The fact that you will not take a big hit in depreciation is just a bonus for you. After you've been riding for a while and saved up some money, you'll be in a much better place to decide what your next bike will be, whether that is a new carbon bike, modern steel, or even back to classic steel. Best of luck!


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## dmick002

This is a good forum. I'm a member of several forums for varying interests and there always tends to be forum "cool kids". They tend to spend more time poking their noses in to say something clever, taking the thread off topic, rather than engaging in discussion centered on the initial subject of the thread. Thanks everyone, and feel free to make more suggestions and/or continue the discussion!


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## gaucho777

An Ironman for $200, especially in your area, is a great deal. They are excellent riders and have something of a cult following. I hesitate to steer you away from it, but another thing to keep in mind is that the Ironman does not have eyelets for a rack. You say your main purpose will be commuting and errands. Thus, uyou may consider looking for something that has eyelets (holes for mounting racks near the axles). For instance, there is a Centurion Accordo currently on page 2 of the SB craigslist that may be worth checking out. 

Sorry, I don't have enough posts yet to include a link, but I trust you can find it if it's still there. Btw, no picture in the ad, which means less competition. Here's the short, simple text:

Vintage Centurion Accordo Road Bike - $285 (Santa Barbara/Goleta/IV)

Japanese made 12 speed, excellent riding condition,great components... resilient bike made to last! Please call: 805-252-7264
Can Deliver...


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## dmick002

Thanks! I'll definitely give him a call tomorrow and try to get some more info and pics.


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## davcruz

When I said "carbon groupies" I was making a general statement about the riders that think only the newest equipment is best and anything else is sub-par or impractical. As I stated, I own 2 carbon bikes, one a hybrid carbon/aluminum and the other full carbon. Carbon bikes have their place and purpose, but they are not the best at everything, of course nothing is, right? I doubt you would ever find a TdF rider on my old 1990 Concorde steel bike, but they were ridden there by some of the best at one point.


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