# Are more engagement points better for road riding?



## TiCoyote (Jun 28, 2005)

I have an old pair of MTB wheels with Chris King hubs that have 72 engagement points. It's a big advantage in mountain biking because there's so much coast-pedal-coast-pedal. It's great to have that next engagement point always right there. 

Does it make a difference for road riding? I know that DT Swiss makes hubs with high numbers of engagement points in their ratchet system, and I think that Easton's new hubs have high numbers of engagement points. 

Is it a disadvantage? More drag while coasting?


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## bubble (May 19, 2007)

It doesn't matter, but quick engagement feels nice. It can be draggier or not depending on the implementation. It can be more durable or less durable depending on implementation.

If you have a 142mm king mtb hub and now you have a 142mm road frame, heck yeah i'd transfer the king hub.


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## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

I like the quick engagement option on the DT hubs, did not like at all the stock set up. Different sound freewheeling is all I have noticed. It would take a pretty sensitive test to assess a difference in drag I think - probably insignificant.


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## changingleaf (Aug 20, 2009)

I think it's personal preference, but generally the hubs with higher engagement cost more and even the DT Swiss 240 and 180 only come with 18 points of engagement out of the box, which is 20 degrees between engagement points. Onyx makes a very nice hub that has instant engagement, which some criterium racers like for putting the power back down quickly coming out out of corner.


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## mfdemicco (Nov 8, 2002)

I think more engagement points are irrelevant for road biking. If it increases the noise level, then it's detrimental. I like a quiet bike.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

If it's an advantage it's rather curious that pretty much all pro riders and their teams who research how to go fast have decided to leave that advantage on the table and stick with ordinary road hubs.


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## andy13 (Aug 22, 2008)

I agree that the advantage is limited for road use, although it could be argued that it could be beneficial for criterium racing. The argument that it's not advantageous because pros and teams aren't on them has little to do with performance and more to do with money (sponsors).


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

andy13 said:


> I agree that the advantage is limited for road use, although it could be argued that it could be beneficial for criterium racing. The argument that it's not advantageous because pros and teams aren't on them has little to do with performance and more to do with money (sponsors).


Performance and money are not separate issues. Better performance means more money through more exposure for sponsors. You really think sponsors are leaving a performance advantage on the table by not adding a few pawls to their road offerings?


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## andy13 (Aug 22, 2008)

No, I think teams and riders think of sponsorship ahead of points of engagement.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

Jay Strongbow said:


> Performance and money are not separate issues. Better performance means more money through more exposure for sponsors. You really think sponsors are leaving a performance advantage on the table by not adding a few pawls to their road offerings?


Who needs more pawl engagement when running ceramic jockey pulleys.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

The new Easton Echo hub has a 7deg engagement. I'd say it does feel a bit nice when you coast-n-go a lot, this happens to me when I'm trying to hammer on roads that have lots of cracks and chips and/or debris when I have to momentarily stop my pedaling.


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## Jay Strongbow (May 8, 2010)

velodog said:


> Who needs more pawl engagement when running ceramic jockey pulleys.


Those are light and reduce friction. But I'm only using them on my 'climbing bike' until I see the wind tunnel testing on various jockey wheels.


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## TiCoyote (Jun 28, 2005)

aclinjury said:


> The new Easton Echo hub has a 7deg engagement. I'd say it does feel a bit nice when you coast-n-go a lot, this happens to me when I'm trying to hammer on roads that have lots of cracks and chips and/or debris when I have to momentarily stop my pedaling.


How do you like those hubs @aclinjury ? I'm thinking about getting the Easton EA90 SL wheelset. I can also get those rims laced to Chris King hubs or DT Swiss 240s, but it would probably be an extra $300.


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## kiwiguyinoz (Apr 4, 2004)

For road cycling I don't think it makes a huge difference (to a point). However for mtbing where you are on and off the gas a lot you do want a faster engaging hub specially in such low gears.
For me I find 10deg of rotation to be starting to be too much for the road. This is what a standard DT star ratchet does. Our hubs are at about 6.5-7deg which feels good. I think much faster than 7deg and it really doesn't make much difference for feel on the road. FOr mtb I would want 7deg or faster.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

TiCoyote said:


> How do you like those hubs @aclinjury ? I'm thinking about getting the Easton EA90 SL wheelset. I can also get those rims laced to Chris King hubs or DT Swiss 240s, but it would probably be an extra $300.


I love them, especially the rear. Rolls (on the bike) better than Chris King R45 (yes I've tested them against the CK R45 in a ramp roll down test). The Echo is quieter than the CK R45 and the DT Swiss 240, but a little louder than the Dura Ace hub. I'd take the Easton Echo hub over the CK R45. R45 definitely has more drag compared to DT 240, Dura Ace, Easton Echo, and Zipp 177 (in the Course 30 wheelset). So if it were me, I'd just buy the EA90 SL wheelset rather than paying $$$ to lace the rim up to a CK R45 and get an slower wheelset.


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