# Pics of my Immortal Force



## WheresWaldo (Nov 29, 2005)

Okay, I will start, here is my Immortal Force:

   
  
_Each image is a link to a high resolution picture

_There are a few changes from the shipped IM:

BD replaced the fork (at my request)
New saddle
New Seatpost
New Stem and Handlebars


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## WheresWaldo (Nov 29, 2005)

Here is my daughter's Le Champion SL:

   
 
Each image is a link to a high resolution picture.

Some modifications:

Tires changed to Vittoria Rubino Pro Black/Red
Saddle changed to Selle Italia Aspide Glamour
Brakeset changed to Ultegra 6500


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## stainofmind (Jul 28, 2006)

Strange how my post in this thread disappeared... I have a Dawes Lightning 1200.


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## WheresWaldo (Nov 29, 2005)

MB1 said:


> nmnmndm


That was almost amusing


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## geraldatwork (Jul 15, 2005)

MB1 said:


> nmnmndm


Well here is a BD bike that has been ridden. Got it a year ago and have put on 2400 tough miles. I'm a 210lb rider and like to mash up the hills. Love the bike. Rides as comfortably as my Steel Raleigh Super Course. I replaced the Shamino 550 wheels with Velocity Areohead rims with Sapim CX-Ray spokes. The wheels rock. Replaced the cheap saddle with a Specialized BG Alias.


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## stainofmind (Jul 28, 2006)

MB1 said:


> nmnmndm


I'm not sure what to take of that. I ride my Dawes all of the time.


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## fran2537 (Aug 28, 2006)

*my 2006 MB le champion*

in answer to the challenges that i am a shill, he is an admittedly poor quality foto of my MB.


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## baylor (Oct 1, 2003)

That big chip on your shoulder is going to mess up your aerodynamics.

Based on how you had to jury rig that bike stem, spacers, and saddle height wise I'd say this is potentially another example of the risk of BD -- an ill-fitting bike. 

YMMV. Enjoy your bike, but really, get over the "shill" thing. I read those threads and you are definitely overreacting.


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## fran2537 (Aug 28, 2006)

baylor, why bother posting? did you add anything constructive to the discussion? amazing--you can tell all that from that lousy picture? must be some sort of bicycle savant.

Folks, i get it--some people dont like BD. my understanding--or should i say misunderstanding was that this section of the forum was to discuss MB not merely vent the respective spleens of those who don't like BD---with a passion that is surprising since none of them ever seem to have actually done business with them--just seem to dislike the way they do business. fair enough, but why do you feel the need to harangue those who don't share your opinion? how about some examples of BD's alleged bad faith and double dealing? absent that--take a deep cleansing breath and move on.
i am tired of the snipes and criticism. all started with a newbie member to the forum expressing his opinion and then watching the BD bashing begin each and every time. did i over react? maybe--but i wonder how the negative posters would react if to their next post the first reply out of the box was to call them a liar and then a constant stream of thinly veiled.
especially funny--after following the sound advice of the moderator on "how not to be a shill" 1. post fotos 2. post ride reports--the first response was another personal criticism. clearly there is no winning with this group.

thanks to those who posted intelligent and helpful comments.


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## tsalconoci4891 (Jul 30, 2006)

Here's what I don't get. If you post on this forum about MB or BD, you get identified as a shill. The reasoning is that since you never posted before and then suddenly say something nice about your new MB or other BD bike you have to be a shill. Pretty black and white, except for this: Before I got my bike I never had a reason to post on this forum. 

And you can do a search of my user name and find a post from late July in which I needed input about a rear derailleur or chain issue. That was my first post and interestingly enough I posted that a few days after I got my bike. I don't know, these geniuses who keep slamming BD customers don't seem to be smart enough to figure that one out.

Anyway, I'm off to do 30 miles today and I need to save my energy for that. I've got 2 hills to climb. I will climb the front and back of hill # 1, once on the way out and once on the way back, and then climb the front only of the much steeper hill # 2. I'll turn around at the top of hill # 2 and head back home. My 18 lb MB Le Champion sure makes climbing fun. I'm to the point now where I can actually accelerate up these hills. That's a bona fide stoke.

Fortunately where I live I can do this ride on rec trails and never once have to deal with car traffic.


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## fran2537 (Aug 28, 2006)

i hear you. other question is if they hate BD so much why not complain to the managment at roadbikereview and get them to stop accepting the Bd ad dollars?

enjoy the hilly ride. at 200 lbs + i am not a big fan of the hills. 

i just did the tour de greenwhich this morning--great course, great weather (FYI: presence of my MB did not incite a riot as i would have thought given the postings here). was unfamiliar with the course but posted a respectable time for the 20 mile route. i did start a thread in the regional ride forum about the race--wonder if i will get slammed there too? better not tell them i rode the race on an MB.


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## baylor (Oct 1, 2003)

fran2537 said:


> baylor, why bother posting? did you add anything constructive to the discussion? amazing--you can tell all that from that lousy picture? must be some sort of bicycle savant.
> 
> Folks, i get it--some people dont like BD. my understanding--or should i say misunderstanding was that this section of the forum was to discuss MB not merely vent the respective spleens of those who don't like BD---with a passion that is surprising since none of them ever seem to have actually done business with them--just seem to dislike the way they do business. fair enough, but why do you feel the need to harangue those who don't share your opinion? how about some examples of BD's alleged bad faith and double dealing? absent that--take a deep cleansing breath and move on.
> i am tired of the snipes and criticism. all started with a newbie member to the forum expressing his opinion and then watching the BD bashing begin each and every time. did i over react? maybe--but i wonder how the negative posters would react if to their next post the first reply out of the box was to call them a liar and then a constant stream of thinly veiled.
> ...


Why not? 

Actually, I think I bring some impartial observer feedback to this discussion. Some folks here are oversensitive to new posters praising BD. They say that they are paranoid based on BD's history of sending in "shills" (I actually had only heard that word before in connection with eBay) with fake user IDs. Dunno, haven't really followed the brouhaha. I also have no opinion of BD, really, except that I think unless you know what you are doing buying over the net can be risky.

You are one of the people that got hit with some skepticism and now YOU are the one that can't let it go. So, yeah, I decided to tweak you about it. The fact that it looks like your bike is one size too small was just the cherry on top. 

But don't yourself keep twisting the lion's tail and expect people not to react, that's totally hypocritical.

Good day.


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## tsalconoci4891 (Jul 30, 2006)

baylor said:


> Why not?
> 
> They say that they are paranoid based on BD's history of sending in "shills" (I actually had only heard that word before in connection with eBay) with fake user IDs. .


baylor, I'm in. But before I put that second foot into the brew I'd like to know just exactly how you know that BD is sending in shills. This "history" you write about should be easily verifiable so go ahead and post it here, would ya? I think it would make for some very interesting reading, if you catch my drift.

As for me, branded for life as I am, your moderators know my ip address, or can ask the web master for it. It will show that I'm a long way from Houston or Dallas. In fact the web master can go back and match my ip address to every visit I've ever made to this site starting back in maybe late June. I forget. Back then I was just reading reviews and I read a lot of them for each of several different brands of bikes I was looking to purchase. But it's all right there...every visit I ever made here and the length of those visits.

One thing about the truth, it trumps bashing, lies, and conjecture.

But that doesn't change the fact that I am....


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## fran2537 (Aug 28, 2006)

*some impartial observer feedback*

interesting way to characterize your weighing in.
first-the self admitted "tweaking" with the express purpose of getting under my perceived thin skin.
second- the very emphatic and precise statements about improper fitting from an unclear digital image and without any information about the rider.
third--the comment "another example of the risk of BD" Implies that there are a legion of other reasons. which may be true but which you have simply alluded to. if you have some impartial observer feedback--share it. again, real examples of bad behavior by BD.

what part of that was "some impartial observer feedback?"


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## Dave Hickey (Jan 27, 2002)

fran2537 said:


> . if you have some impartial observer feedback--share it. again, real examples of bad behavior by BD.


Fran2537, I'm sorry you got sucked into this problem. The BikeDirect shill problem is very real...Just yesterday, the CEO of BD posted under the user name bikesdirect. His post was very well written and he seemed to answer a lot of questions. There is one small problem.....His internet IP is the same as a well known BikeDirect shill that was banned a couple of week ago. Does that mean that the CEO is a shill? Who knows..maybe he as posting from a work computer but _someone_ at BD has/is posting as a shill.........


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## fran2537 (Aug 28, 2006)

*BD CEO post*

Thanks Dave. appreciate the sentiment

Your post is exactly the type of information i was hoping to see on the forum. a real concrete example of the alleged bad behavior.


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## geraldatwork (Jul 15, 2005)

Hey, I just rode my BD bike today on a 59 mile ride. Averaged 18 mph which is pretty good for me. I guess what some of these people are trying to say if I had a "real" bike maybe I would of averaged a mile or two more.


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## fran2537 (Aug 28, 2006)

amazing--i am afraid to even get on my BD bike after all that i have seen posted here. expect it to burst into flames as soon as i clip into my pedals.

from one alleged shill to another--enjoy the bike.

funny thing is-i agree with the general complaint MB1 and others make about shill postings.


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## tsalconoci4891 (Jul 30, 2006)

Dave Hickey said:


> Fran2537, I'm sorry you got sucked into this problem. The BikeDirect shill problem is very real...Just yesterday, the CEO of BD posted under the user name bikesdirect. His post was very well written and he seemed to answer a lot of questions. There is one small problem.....His internet IP is the same as a well known BikeDirect shill that was banned a couple of week ago. Does that mean that the CEO is a shill? Who knows..maybe he as posting from a work computer but _someone_ at BD has/is posting as a shill.........


Dave, that is so interesting. Actually his post wasn't that well written. There were tons of grammatical errors and misspelled words. But no matter, what matters is that you have identified him as shill in your latest shill hunt. That's way cool. You also mention that the poster's ip address is the same as a shill from a couple of weeks ago. This is my point exactly. You, or the web master, knows my ip address. You know that I'm posting from about as far away from BD central as is possible and yet you post this troll the other day: 

"Please post a picture of your new Moto...I would love to see it...

or better yet, how about a ride report?
__________________
Dave Hickey/ Fort Worth, TX
L I V E S T R O N G
"back in the good 'ole days when bikes were steel and breasts were real!"- Fredrico"

My question is so simple, if you knew my ip address then you had to have concluded that I probably was not a BD shill and yet you send out the troll anyway. 

What's with that? 

And here's something else I don't get. I have been a member of an outdoor oriented forum for a number of years. In the winter it's all about skiing. In the summer the focus shifts to mountain biking, road biking, kayaking, backpacking, and anything else you can do outside during the warmth of summer. It's a very supportive forum. When people ask questions or join anew they are greeted with friendly responses. In the 6 or 7 years that I've been a forum member I have rarely seen any flaming, bashing, etc. You ask a question and you will get an answer. I don't bother to post much anymore because there are so many people willing to answer questions there that there really isn't a need for me to do so. But it's all positive and supportive. The people may use different skis but no one seems to care. And the companies that advertise on the site are all internet based. No one seems to mind if someone buys their gear from one of those outfits, either. 

The funny thing is that all the advertisers on Road Bikes Review are internet based. Okay, some of them have a storefront some where but they are still internet based. Funny thing is that there's a lot of internet business going on all the time. 

So why do you guys feel that you need to single out BD? I don't get it. 


Sorry. Didn't edit the way I wanted so I'm inserting this here:

I just want to add this one last thing. Last year, in the summer of 2005, I started thinking about a new bike. I hadn't yet injured my foot so I didn't really get into it. But I did find this site at that time. I visited here then and read a few reviews. I don't remember much more than that I found this site and visited a couple of times. I don't remember once hitting the "Forums" tab on the home page but I might have. It was a year ago. My point is that my ip trail is there. You can ask your web master and he can track it down. And if you do that you will see that I just visited here and that's about it. I became much more serious this summer and so visited here a lot during the month of June and especially July. But, and I could be wrong on this, I never hit the forums tab until I had that derailleur problem back in late July.

So if I'm a shill for BD then I'm a very crafty shill. I set in motion the events that led up to my post of the other day over a year ago. Who'd a' thunk I could be so smart?


And don't forget that I'm ...


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## tsalconoci4891 (Jul 30, 2006)

I just want to add this one last thing. Last year, in the summer of 2005, I started thinking about a new bike. I hadn't yet injured my foot so I didn't really get into it. But I did find this site at that time. I visited here then and read a few reviews. I don't remember much more than that I found this site and visited a couple of times. I don't remember once hitting the "Forums" tab on the home page but I might have. It was a year ago. My point is that my ip trail is there. You can ask your web master and he can track it down. And if you do that you will see that I just visited here and that's about it. I became much more serious this summer and so visited here a lot during the month of June and especially July. But, and I could be wrong on this, I never hit the forums tab until I had that derailleur problem back in late July. 

So if I'm a shill for BD then I'm a very crafty shill. I set in motion the events that led up to my post of the other day over a year ago. Who'd a' thunk I could be so smart.


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## Lifelover (Jul 8, 2004)

Dave Hickey said:


> Fran2537, I'm sorry you got sucked into this problem. The BikeDirect shill problem is very real...Just yesterday, the CEO of BD posted under the user name bikesdirect. His post was very well written and he seemed to answer a lot of questions. There is one small problem.....His internet IP is the same as a well known BikeDirect shill that was banned a couple of week ago. Does that mean that the CEO is a shill? Who knows..maybe he as posting from a work computer but _someone_ at BD has/is posting as a shill.........



Even I might be willing to give the CEO the benefit of the doubt. He may have nothing to do with this and the "shill" may really just be a "Troll". At this point it seems clear that time will tell.


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## stainofmind (Jul 28, 2006)

It's too bad a thread that was supposed to be for photos had to turn into this trash, again.


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## baylor (Oct 1, 2003)

They've been identified by IP tracking and banned. I have pretty good respect for the moderators of this forum which is one of the reasons I switched from Bicycling.com to here. Folks here aren't banned lightly, either.


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## baylor (Oct 1, 2003)

Impartial in that I'm really not invested in the fight over BD or whose a shill. But I don't think you get to cry "foul" when you keep picking the same scab over and over. 

As for the fit comment, I don't think you have to be a Serotta fit tech to say that when a bike has a seat jacked up and all the way back on the rails, a bunch of spacers and a stem with a ton of rise, etc. that the rider likely needed a bigger size. 

But if you would have just said "here's my bike, I love it" I would have said "enjoy." But you throw out the same old chestnut over and over and then everyone else is supposed to... what, ignore it I guess? 

Seems like an odd approach.

Enjoy your bike.


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## tsalconoci4891 (Jul 30, 2006)

I see my troll was removed. Oh well. There's a lot of good information on this site about bikes, bike parts, nutrition, etc. It could really be decent place to hang out, to learn. But....

Edited to remove stuff that might get me banned.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

fran2537 said:


> amazing--i am afraid to even get on my BD bike after all that i have seen posted here. expect it to burst into flames as soon as i clip into my pedals.
> 
> from one alleged shill to another--enjoy the bike.
> 
> funny thing is-i agree with the general complaint MB1 and others make about shill postings.


I don't think anyone has an issue with the bikes. They seem to be built at the same level as the Leader bikes and several other mail order only Mainland frames/discounted mini-group/clearance rest of the group style of bike seller. It has been the ill founded _Viral Marketing For Dummies_ approach to shills here (and about 4-6 other popular cycling forums- you should SEE the meltdowns there  ) that has raised so much well deserved ire. Unfortunately, some innocent MB riders have got caught in the cross fire. 

This is YOUR forum to talk about your MB bikes- so feel free to post pictures, rides, upgrades or whatever. 

Nobody likes the shills, but that should be less of an issue hopefully going forward. 

On a lighter note, here is a picture of an ski jumping cat:


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## LeaderBike (Nov 7, 2003)

*Thank you but we disagree*

On behalf of Leader Bike, although flattered we disagree. We challenge anyone to compare our frames and geometry. Both designed in our facilities in San Diego, CA. We have lasted this long for only one reason, great prices, high end quality.


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Howdy!

Having seen several Leader bikes at races, I was *quite* impressed with the bang for the buck they offer. Although we may differ on the "high end quality" claim, we do agree on the pricing front.

Cheers.


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## covenant (May 21, 2002)

LeaderBike said:


> On behalf of Leader Bike, although flattered we disagree. We challenge anyone to compare our frames and geometry. Both designed in our facilities in San Diego, CA. We have lasted this long for only one reason, great prices, high end quality.


I'm set to pull the trigger on an LD-796R frame tonight. I think it and the I804 fork look great together and l can't wait to feast my eyes on them in the privacy of my own home. :wink5:

*Edit to add* payment complete! Pics to follow upon delivery....


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## lionheartdds (Mar 24, 2007)

So how does a thread that starts out as a photo spread to showcase your ride turn into a brand war? About as bad or worse than the Nikon versus Canon wars that some posters on photographyreview.com try to start, but are fortunately ignored by most of that community. 
Just my two bits from a noobie who knows next to nothing about bikes.


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## WheresWaldo (Nov 29, 2005)

lionheartdds said:


> So how does a thread that starts out as a photo spread to showcase your ride turn into a brand war? About as bad or worse than the Nikon versus Canon wars that some posters on photographyreview.com try to start, but are fortunately ignored by most of that community.
> Just my two bits from a noobie who knows next to nothing about bikes.


I could never figure that one out myself either, that is why I abandoned this thread and rarely post on this forum. It seems that there are some, with no interest in BD or any of it's brands that are simply here to stir controversy. There are so many other forums, it is a shame that some who claim to want to promote cycling, only give lip service toward that end and are so small minded that they cannot let this go.

I wanted this thread to show off my ride and my daughters, then to invite others to do the same, instead what we have is a stream of garbage. It is very sad.


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## covenant (May 21, 2002)

lionheartdds said:


> So how does a thread that starts out as a photo spread to showcase your ride turn into a brand war? About as bad or worse than the Nikon versus Canon wars that some posters on photographyreview.com try to start, but are fortunately ignored by most of that community.
> Just my two bits from a noobie who knows next to nothing about bikes.


This flame war had long since cooled off before you resurrected it. Thanks!:thumbsup:
And your "brand war" comment is pretty ironic considering your sig.


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## lionheartdds (Mar 24, 2007)

covenant said:


> This flame war had long since cooled off before you resurrected it. Thanks!:thumbsup:
> And your "brand war" comment is pretty ironic considering your sig.


Sorry about resurrecting the war. I was just tracking down any threads pertaining to Leader bikes. I didn't check to see how ancient this thread was :-o
Yeah, that sig is tradition on photographyreview.com-the Canon users belong to Clan O'Canon, the Nikon users are the Nikon Samurai, and the Minolta users are the Minolta Warriors. I don't think the Pentax users united to form a group with a name, but I could be wrong. There's hardly any brand bashing on that site however, most of us there care more about the photos than the gear, but there are a few who unfortunately try to get a war going. Most photographers would switch brands in a heartbeat if the gear meant getting the shot or not getting the shot, but it's tough when lenses aren't interchangeable the way components on a bike or even a computer are interchangeable. Most serious photographers could care less about the brand or make of their camera, just as long as it doesn't limit their ability to create their vision.
The Mac/windows rant is just that. I use Windows because I don't have a choice since our practice software won't run on Mac OSX (we are paperless in my practice, with 44 Windblows machines running XPee), and I can't expense out my laptop as directly allocated cost if I can't use it at work, and home too, since I need my home computer to work outside of the office after hours for emergency calls to check charting, etc, and for office marketing-I'm in charge of marketing photography at the practice, and I am also the practice's web administrator. My wife's Mac works, and works, and works. Windows is more like work, reboot, work, reboot....crash, cry, tears, gnashing of teeth, rebuild, reboot, work....My Mac user friends laugh at my insanity (definition of insanity-Doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results each time).


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## jimi (Mar 7, 2007)

i' m currantly riding a 15 yr.+ jetter 310 XL and am concidering buying a MB. from bikes direct but some of these posts give me butterflys about spending big bucks with an internet based company. can anyone post something that will reassure me about the quality and service of BD.


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## lionheartdds (Mar 24, 2007)

Well there seems like an awful lot of folks who have bought from them on this site, and seem quite pleased with their purchase. I almost bought from them myself, if only for the parts. The frames I am sure are above average or better, but the value of their packages seem incredible. My thought was buy their packages and live with the frame until I bought a frame I really wanted, and transfer the components over to the new frame. The thing I have always disliked about BD is the lack of customized choices, but that's probably how they manage to offer the customer the savings, that plus the fact that their frame color schemes are just ugly in my honest opinion. But I haven't read many threads here screaming about anything awful about these bikes, quite the opposite. I ended up going with Leader based on one really glowing review, the ability to customize my package, the fact that these frames are originals from the US of A, not clones from the three major factories in Asia, and the fact that they LOOK REALLY SHARP, for a considerably better price than their Trek, Cannondale, Orbea, etc.... counterparts in identical trim. Am I happy with my purchase? Absolutely. Are there better bikes out there? A matter of opinion (brand name loyalty) probably. But for the hard earned buck that most of us sweat blood and tears for, I think the value of these bikes from BD, Leader, and Bottechio online can't be beat.


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## Lifelover (Jul 8, 2004)

lionheartdds said:


> ...... I ended up going with Leader based on one really glowing review, the ability to customize my package, *the fact that these frames are originals from the US of A*, not clones from the three major factories in Asia, and ......



I'm all for coming up with reasons not to buy from BD and I think the way you can customize a Leader is great (maybe best on the net) but do you really think the frames are made here?

I would be amazed if that were true. They make great frame overseas.


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## I am The Edge (Jul 27, 2004)

leader frames are designed in the usa but built in either taiwan or china and shipped back here (san diego) where they are packaged. one of the guys from leader posted this exact info here on RBR.


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## lionheartdds (Mar 24, 2007)

Thanks. well, at least it's half American  It's a great frame either way. Just rough on the little road bumps. Might be I'll have to get different wheels and tires.


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

lionheartdds said:


> Thanks. well, at least it's half American  It's a great frame either way. Just rough on the little road bumps. Might be I'll have to get different wheels and tires.


..or more likely about 3% American.


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## covenant (May 21, 2002)

lionheartdds said:


> Thanks. well, at least it's half American  It's a great frame either way. Just rough on the little road bumps. Might be I'll have to get different wheels and tires.


Tire size and pressure well make a world of difference.


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