# Stage 9: 41.5k ITT



## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

I haven't seen al of Stage 8, but I did see Olympic champion Sammy Sanchez fall and get burrito wrapped on a stretcher. Pinot took the stage and the big GC guys all came in :37 later, save for Schleck who was gapped by an additional :04. Interstingly on paper, Schleck and Horner same in together. Was Schleck following Horner's lines?

I need to see how that finale went. I am surprised Nibali and Evans didn't drop Wiggins on the descent...

Stage 9 is the first long Indivdual Time Trial. Somewhat rolling but mostly flat, this race of truth will most likely distance Wiggins from the competition more. The bigger questions are how much more time will Wiggins put into his contenders, who will get closer, and who will eventually win the stage? 

Zabriskie showed strength in a break, and Garmin is now stage hunting. Cancellara is a huge motor and 13:00+ back. Can Tony Martin come back? Will Grabsch find his old form and surprise everyone?

Personally, I think Cancellara will win the stage, Wiggins will pad his lead by 10 seconds, and Schleck will lose lots of time. Lots.


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## allison (Apr 19, 2006)

Sparticus. 

I think Wiggins will gain some time since the last 2 stages have seemed effortless by him and his team. Cadel will hopefully do top-10 not too far back. Levi probably the same, though I don't see him making up any time. Would be cool to see Tejay take back some time for white jersey, and maybe Tony Martin solid ride as well? Long ish TT plus mostly flat.

TT's generally aren't very exciting for me to watch, but looking forward to results and not at all to the rest day


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Hoping for a Tony Martin victory.


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## yurl (Mar 31, 2010)

Martin


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## superjesus (Jul 26, 2010)

robdamanii said:


> Hoping for a Tony Martin victory.


After his prologue, so is Specialized.


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## thechriswebb (Nov 21, 2008)

I hope Tony Martin takes it but he doesn't look too comfortable right now. That is a long ride for a battered body at full gas. I predict Cancellara takes it. 

I'm not sure what will happen with Evans/Wiggins. Evans lost time to Wiggins in the Dauphine but he also gets stronger as the Tour progresses. This ride has a few hills, which could play to Evans' favor. I think Wiggins will probably still be in yellow tomorrow but I don't think he will take as much time out of Evans as some people think. 

Menchov could do some damage tomorrow and I could see him leapfrogging Nibali. 

Levi gets back into the top ten. 

There is still a lot of racing ahead.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

Looking forward to no one crashing out! 

Hopefully they make it through the rest day without any more withdrawals...


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## gusmahler (Apr 7, 2012)

Tony Martin all the way!


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## ohvrolla (Aug 2, 2009)

thechriswebb said:


> I hope Tony Martin takes it but he doesn't look too comfortable right now. That is a long ride for a battered body at full gas. I predict Cancellara takes it.
> 
> I'm not sure what will happen with Evans/Wiggins. Evans lost time to Wiggins in the Dauphine but he also gets stronger as the Tour progresses. This ride has a few hills, which could play to Evans' favor. I think Wiggins will probably still be in yellow tomorrow but I don't think he will take as much time out of Evans as some people think.
> 
> ...


That seems pretty spot on. The one thing I am curious about is whether Evans losing his water bottle right off the bat on the Dauphine affected the outcome. Still think Wiggins would have bested him no matter what with the ride Wiggins put in that day.

The result I'm really interested in is Menchov's. No slouch in the time trial, and it would be nice to think it was more than a two horse race.


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## Jwiffle (Mar 18, 2005)

I'll be putting my money on Cancellara. Tony's a little banged up, and though he'll still put in a good run, he'll come up a little short.

Evans was sounding confident, and he has been attacking the last two days, even if they were unsuccessful. Wiggins apparently happy to keep only 10 seconds lead, but surprised he didn't want to try any attacks himself to pad his lead. Maybe he couldn't counter, but just grab wheel. Guess we'll find out.

As for Nibali and Evans on today's stage on the descent - it appeared that at the steepest and most winding section Nibali did get 10-15 seconds out and Evans a few seconds at one point, and could have extended it further, but the road straightened out some and leveled out a little, which enabled everyone to catch back up. And Wiggins isn't a poor descender, either (he's not a Schleck, after all).


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

Prolly Spartacus or Wiggo but I'm pulling for Tony Martin.


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

Spartacus, Wiggo or Zabriskie.


What is most interesting to me is how much time Wiggo can put on Cadel today.


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## juno (Jul 18, 2008)

I think Fabs or Martin. Wiggo could put a hurt on Cadel today. And I think Sagan may pull a top 10 in the ITT if he has no bike issues. He would have been top3 in the prologue. It will be intersting to see how he does in a longer one. The hills may help him a bit.


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## yurl (Mar 31, 2010)

apparently Martin rode a large part and finishing with a flat so baring bad luck it should be Cancellara. unless Wiggins rides a blinder in yellow


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## Ridin'Sorra (Sep 7, 2004)

yurl said:


> apparently Martin rode a large part and finishing with a flat so baring bad luck it should be Cancellara. unless Wiggins rides a blinder in yellow


And yet he put 28s on Jens Voigt!


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

yurl said:


> apparently Martin rode a large part and finishing with a flat so baring bad luck it should be Cancellara. unless Wiggins rides a blinder in yellow


good thing those skinny tyres have low rolling resistance


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Ridin'Sorra said:


> And yet he put 28s on Jens Voigt!


Remember, Martin is a TT specialist...Jens isn't. So either Martin's ride sucked, or Jens put up a great time.


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## Ridin'Sorra (Sep 7, 2004)

Marc said:


> Remember, Martin is a TT specialist...Jens isn't. So either Martin's ride sucked, or Jens put up a great time.


Martin's time sucked, actually... because he rode 5km with a flat tyre as pointed before.


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

Spartacus just destroyed this course. He put 1.19 into Tony Martin. Wow.


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## Ridin'Sorra (Sep 7, 2004)

Tejay topped Spartacus 1st partial by 3s.

However, that seemed like the slow sector for Cancellara. He only put 10s over Chavanel by then, while he put 27s on Chavanel at the end.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

TJ by 2s at the second check.

Len


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Len J said:


> TJ by 2s at the second check.
> 
> Len


Down 9" by the line though. Close.


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## Ridin'Sorra (Sep 7, 2004)

Fromage faster than Tejay in 1st check... by 23s !!!

He's either going for the win or assplode before getting to the finish line!


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## ohvrolla (Aug 2, 2009)

Froome just blistered the course on the first time check


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

ohvrolla said:


> Froome just blistered the course on the first time check


I think we might see some GC changeup...


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## coop (Jun 8, 2008)

Move along, nothing to see here!


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## Ridin'Sorra (Sep 7, 2004)

Wiggins barely faster than Froome. Mmmmhhh... makes me think of Ferrari F1's team strategies.


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## gusmahler (Apr 7, 2012)

Wonder if Sky will rethink their "working for Wiggins" strategy and just change to a "working for Wiggins/Froome" strategy and whichever of Wiggins/Froome doesn't break on the mountains becomes the new team leader.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Damn! Froome bests Cancellara by 20"


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Marc said:


> Damn! Froome bests Cancellara by 20"


Amazing.

In a weird sort of way....


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## grandprix (Jul 8, 2012)

Sky is having an absurdly fast tour so far.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Frome just beat Cancellera by 22 seconds...WTF? 

Looks suspisious to me.

Len


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

Len J said:


> Frome just beat Cancellera by 22 seconds...WTF?
> 
> Looks suspisious to me.
> 
> Len


I said to the wife yesterday:

How'd a pure climber like Froome suddenly become a grand tour contender? And now beating a TT specialist at his own game?

Not to mention the apt Sky/Postal comparison....


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Len J said:


> Frome just beat Cancellera by 22 seconds...WTF?
> 
> Looks suspisious to me.
> 
> Len


One can always hope and dream...and when all else fails keep riding their own bike regardless.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

robdamanii said:


> I said to the wife yesterday:
> 
> How'd a pure climber like Froome suddenly become a grand tour contender? And now beating a TT specialist at his own game?
> 
> Not to mention the apt Sky/Postal comparison....


Seriously...where did Chris Froome come from?

This tour has a real problem if Sky is going to win it in the first week due to crashes and 1 big tt. And now the GC becomes a race for third?


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

robdamanii said:


> I said to the wife yesterday:
> 
> How'd a pure climber like Froome suddenly become a grand tour contender? And now beating a TT specialist at his own game?
> 
> Not to mention the apt Sky/Postal comparison....


Why does everyone think Froome is just a climber? I've never got that because wasn't he winner/second in the British time trial championships a couple of years ago? 

Also, how was Tejay even close to Spartacus! Never saw that happening


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## grandprix (Jul 8, 2012)

And Wiggins is 16 seconds faster than Froome at the Avanne-Aveney check. Sean Kelly seems to think the team is telling him to slow down so 'they don't have to contend with so many attacks from Evans'. 

More like so they don't have gendarmerie raiding the bus.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

*^ funny.*



grandprix said:


> And Wiggins is 16 seconds faster than Froome at the Avanne-Aveney check. Sean Kelly seems to think the team is telling him to slow down so 'they don't have to contend with so many attacks from Evans'.
> 
> More like so they don't have gendarmerie raiding the bus.


^ funny.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

roddjbrown said:


> Why does everyone think Froome is just a climber? I've never got that because wasn't he winner/second in the British time trial championships a couple of years ago?
> 
> Also, how was Tejay even close to Spartacus! Never saw that happening


Second in British Nats is a little different than clobbering a 4x WTT champ in Cancellara. And, to boot, after the climbing the past two days. No fatigue whatsoever?

Tejay has been known to throw out a good TT on more than one occasion. Surprised to see him that close to FC, but not really surprised to see a good ride from him.


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

robdamanii said:


> Second in British Nats is a little different than clobbering a 4x WTT champ in Cancellara. And, to boot, after the climbing the past two days. No fatigue whatsoever?
> 
> Tejay has been known to throw out a good TT on more than one occasion. Surprised to see him that close to FC, but not really surprised to see a good ride from him.


Equally not surprised to see Froome ride well - 2011 Vuelta he beat Wiggo in the ITT


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Wiggins by 35s over Fromme. 

Eyebrows raised.

Len


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## clonechemist (Sep 8, 2006)

FC said he lost his race radio early on - maybe this (ie lack of motivation from DS screaming in his ear) and the 465-foot climb on the course account for the smaller guys keeping up with him?


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

Too be fair, FC did have a lousy spring which could effect his form.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

roddjbrown said:


> Equally not surprised to see Froome ride well - 2011 Vuelta he beat Wiggo in the ITT


And that isn't incredibly surprising?

Ever since the Vuelta last year, everything sky has done has been "interesting."


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## yurl (Mar 31, 2010)

shocked by the results. Yes. almost a minute on FC after only a week of riding. wow!
also didn't expect that ride from Froome at all.


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## JackDaniels (Oct 4, 2011)

Looking over the Palmares of Chris Froome, that was a surprisingly fast ride. It would be less surprising if he was 22 with a shitload of U23 achievements. But the guy is 27...


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## Wile_E_Coyote (Jul 15, 2011)

I don't have much to comment on the results, as I'm still a relative newcomer to following the sport.

Can't help but feel sad that the state of the sport causes so much suspicion over surprise results.


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

robdamanii said:


> And that isn't incredibly surprising?
> 
> Ever since the Vuelta last year, everything sky has done has been "interesting."


Regarding Sky as a whole that's as maybe. I have very little idea although I've noticed there's a lot of people on this forum hinting at Sky in a way that suggests there's some sour grapes from BMC/RSNT fans. 

Anyway, clean or otherwise my point was more over why people presume Froome to be a climbing specialist. I've never understood it at all, yes he can climb but he's had strong TT performances before this. Yes, the British Nationals didn't have FC in but it wasn't a weak field. I just checked and Thomas was there (white jersey winner), Stannard (part of the world road race team) and Froome beat them. Was it just that he was brought up at altitude that made people presume it or did Liggett just decide it and it's been accepted as gospel ever since.


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

Wile_E_Coyote said:


> I don't have much to comment on the results, as I'm still a relative newcomer to following the sport.
> 
> Can't help but feel sad that the state of the sport causes so much suspicion over surprise results.


Totally agree. I was not new to the tour this year but it was the first time (thanks LA) that I really followed the doping situation. 

Unfortunately there'll be a cloud of suspicion over anything - I'm not convinced it even has to be that surprising

EDIT Before anyone accuses me of being a fanboy by the way, I do agree that this looks weird. I just would rather believe the tour is clean, naive or otherwise


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## DZfan14 (Jul 6, 2009)

Barring a disaster, I don't see Wiggo losing this Tour now. Cadel might be able to attack somewhere but he won't be able to win all of his time back and pad his lead enough for the longer TT coming up.

This parcours is just too favorable for Wiggo for him to have to worry about much.


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## juno (Jul 18, 2008)

Shocking.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

roddjbrown said:


> Totally agree. I was not new to the tour this year but it was the first time (thanks LA) that I really followed the doping situation.
> 
> Unfortunately there'll be a cloud of suspicion over anything - I'm not convinced it even has to be that surprising


I am not so much suspicious as I am disappointed. I really hope there is some exciting racing coming up in the next couple weeks, but Sky is going to have to seriously crack for anyone else to break in...


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

I feel a bit bad for Cadel losing near 2 minutes, but Wiggins gets his turn to finally nab it this year, it looks to be.

GB must be going nuts. Surprised PnP were able to maintain their composure. 

And how 'bout that Froome and TeJay? Good stuff.


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## wblas3271 (May 12, 2012)

roddjbrown said:


> Regarding Sky as a whole that's as maybe. I have very little idea although I've noticed there's a lot of people on this forum hinting at Sky in a way that suggests there's some sour grapes from BMC/RSNT fans.
> 
> Anyway, clean or otherwise my point was more over why people presume Froome to be a climbing specialist. I've never understood it at all, yes he can climb but he's had strong TT performances before this. Yes, the British Nationals didn't have FC in but it wasn't a weak field. I just checked and Thomas was there (white jersey winner), Stannard (part of the world road race team) and Froome beat them. Was it just that he was brought up at altitude that made people presume it or did Liggett just decide it and it's been accepted as gospel ever since.


Don't speak so much sense, you'll upset the armchair experts.


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## yurl (Mar 31, 2010)

foto said:


> I am not so much suspicious as I am disappointed. I really hope there is some exciting racing coming up in the next couple weeks, but Sky is going to have to seriously crack for anyone else to break in...


It looks like Wiggins is pretty much a done deal. anything Cadel can gain in the mountains he'll lose again in the next TT. There's only one more summit stage left so few opportunities to attack and sky will be pretty attentive. 

The question is if Froome can beat out Evans for second making it a sky 1-2


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## yurl (Mar 31, 2010)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> GB must be going nuts. Surprised PnP were able to maintain their composure.
> .


they just don't want to jinx it given the great british tradition of choking at sports.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

gusmahler said:


> Wonder if Sky will rethink their "working for Wiggins" strategy and just change to a "working for Wiggins/Froome" strategy and whichever of Wiggins/Froome doesn't break on the mountains becomes the new team leader.


When the team started, Sky's stated goal was to put a British rider on the top step of the podium in Paris. Since Froome acquired British nationality, seems like Sky should go with whoever they think is the better contender.

I'll bet you anything Wiggins wishes Froome didn't have such a great TT performance. Should be interesting...


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## wblas3271 (May 12, 2012)

Regarding the Froome/Cancellara split:

I guess with Froome's alleged "Climbing specialty," it's curious that nobody has mentioned this was not a flat TT.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

yurl said:


> It looks like Wiggins is pretty much a done deal. anything Cadel can gain in the mountains he'll lose again in the next TT. There's only one more summit stage left so few opportunities to attack and sky will be pretty attentive.
> 
> The question is if Froome can beat out Evans for second making it a sky 1-2


Hopefully there will be some big, go-for-broke, all-or-nothing attacks in the mountains since there is nowhere to go but up at this point.


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## LesDiablesRouges (Jul 17, 2009)

First time in a long while that there has been such a distinct lead has been had prior to the first HC climb.

I'm not a big Wiggins guy even though he was born in Belgium, but he and Froome appear to be the class of the field this year.

Bummed that VDB had a mechanical on Stage 7 but he'd still be over 3 1/2 minutes back absent the mechanical. He's not a good enough TT'er anymore (world u23 champion) to win this tour and perhaps any TDF or grand tour.

The good news is that the gap being so big already should spur on attacks, and I think we'll see more from Pinot, Rolland, Sagan, Taaramae, and Van Garderen in this tour and of course they look to be the next generation of superstars.

Unless Wiggins and Froome blows up/crashes/etc.one of the two will win the tour. 

Good to see Van Garderen TT like that as it bodes very well for him to win the Tour in a couple of years.

I hope Pinot can develop his TT'ing ability and I think he will which should make for some incredible battles going forward.


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## weltyed (Feb 6, 2004)

Top Ten from CN:


> Here the top ten for the stage:
> 
> 1 Bradley Wiggins (Sky Procycling) 0:51:24
> 2 Christopher Froome (GBr) Sky Procycling 0:00:35
> ...


surprised fabian lost, but given the spring, and apparently more steep course than i thought, it makes sense. 

what does surprise me is evans. i thought he would lose around 10 seconds. maybe 20. but almost 2 minutes? ouch. 

days like this i miss contador. if he were in this thing this year we would have a few more days of racing...


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

roddjbrown said:


> Regarding Sky as a whole that's as maybe. I have very little idea although I've noticed there's a lot of people on this forum hinting at Sky in a way that suggests there's some sour grapes from BMC/RSNT fans.
> 
> Anyway, clean or otherwise my point was more over why people presume Froome to be a climbing specialist. I've never understood it at all, yes he can climb but he's had strong TT performances before this. Yes, the British Nationals didn't have FC in but it wasn't a weak field. I just checked and Thomas was there (white jersey winner), Stannard (part of the world road race team) and Froome beat them. Was it just that he was brought up at altitude that made people presume it or did Liggett just decide it and it's been accepted as gospel ever since.


His only TT results of note are a 2nd at british nats and a 2nd in the B-class in 07. That does not make sense seeing the performance we saw today. His performances in the past have been that of a strong climber NOT a world class TT rider.

And the "climbing" today hardly would have put him that far away from the TT specialists.


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

I'm British but for what it's worth I find Wiggins himself pretty hard to like - I think it goes back to his track cycling days when I much preferred Hoy's style. 

I am glad that Wiggo took a chunk today though. As above, this means attacks are necessary and I think Nibali has the ability to do real damage, especially as there's an incentive for him and Evans to work together


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## gusmahler (Apr 7, 2012)

LesDiablesRouges said:


> First time in a long while that there has been such a distinct lead has been had prior to the first HC climb.


This is the first TdF since 2007 that has 2 ITTs. Unfortunately, Wikipedia doesn't have stage by stage standings for 2007, like they do for more recent years.

Last year, at this time, Voeckler had a 1'49" lead on second place. But that was different, because everyone knew he wasn't going to win the GC.


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## Hiro11 (Dec 18, 2010)

Just to echo the comments here, these are crazy results. Wiggins puts 1.43 into Evans? Froom smokes Spartacus? Tejay in 4th? Big time results.


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## gusmahler (Apr 7, 2012)

robdamanii said:


> His only TT results of note are a 2nd at british nats and a 2nd in the B-class in 07. That does not make sense seeing the performance we saw today. His performances in the past have been that of a strong climber NOT a world class TT rider.
> 
> And the "climbing" today hardly would have put him that far away from the TT specialists.


More disinformation.

Last year's Vuelta, stage 10 ITT. Notice which "climber" is ahead of Spartacus.


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## jorgy (Oct 21, 2005)

gusmahler said:


> More disinformation.
> 
> Last year's Vuelta, stage 10 ITT. Notice which "climber" is ahead of Spartacus.


And that ride at the Vuelta was tagged as the "ride of a lifetime." Not even another year later and he's pulled off another "ride of a lifetime."


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## Ripton (Apr 21, 2011)

roddjbrown said:


> I have very little idea although I've noticed there's a lot of people on this forum hinting at Sky in a way that suggests there's some sour grapes from BMC/RSNT fans.


Sky are looking good but may be gap between them and BMC/RSNT is just as much an indication of how sh1t BMC and RSNT are this year.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

wblas3271 said:


> Regarding the Froome/Cancellara split:
> 
> I guess with Froome's alleged "Climbing specialty," it's curious that nobody has mentioned this was not a flat TT.


The profile has one 130Meter climb....hardly hilly.

Len


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## flyrunride (May 2, 2012)

Whoa... Team Sky is on another level.... Evans & Co. needs a new plan... maybe multi-attack or hope it rains and bomb on the descents


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## LesDiablesRouges (Jul 17, 2009)

I know everyone hates the "D" word but as I discussed it with my father's friend who was a former pro, he told me that everyone does it and he did it way back when he rode. He was highly skeptical that there were any riders who weren't doing it. He told me that it wasn't really a choice becuase there were 20 guys lining up behind you for the spot on the team who would in an instant step in and do what was needed to be done.

I apologize as I didn't want to derail the thread with this topic, but rather just try to dissuade everyone from going further with it and jsut accept that you what is going on and everyone is involved.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Len J said:


> The profile has one 130Meter climb....hardly hilly.
> 
> Len


But the last two stages were.


Considering Cancellara is far from a climber and how hard he went, especially the day before yesterday...that's pretty tough on non-climber legs.

Just speculating that he may not have been at top TT form today.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

roddjbrown said:


> Why does everyone think Froome is just a climber? I've never got that because wasn't he winner/second in the British time trial championships a couple of years ago?
> 
> Also, how was Tejay even close to Spartacus! Never saw that happening


second to Wiggins. 
That then 1 month later lost 3m30s to Cancellara over 50 km.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> But the last two stages were.
> 
> 
> Considering Cancellara is far from a climber and how hard he went, especially the day before yesterday...that's pretty tough on non-climber legs.
> ...


 
It's certainly possible....but he was in good enough form to put time into everybody else.........except for 2 guys that worked a lot harder than he did the last 2 days.

Maybe it's just better training......but one has to wonder.

Len


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

> Just to echo the comments here, these are crazy results. Wiggins puts 1.43 into Evans?.....


On this point:

Today’s times were 

Wiggins
Froome +0:35
Evans *+1:43*
Nibali +2:07

and the 2012 Dauphine TT (53.5Km) times were

Wiggins
Froome + 1:33
Evans* +1:43*
Nibali +3:30


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

Wiggins finished 51 seconds up on Cancellara, 26 of those taken by the first time check

Froome finished 35 seconds ahead of Cancellara. 22 of those seconds were taken by the first time check. 

Tejay was up at the first time check. then lost it in the remainder. 

That first time check was only 16.5km into 41.5km time trial yet over half the time Cancellara was by then. IMO that (non) hill definitely impacted Cancellara.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

roddjbrown said:


> Wiggins finished 51 seconds up on Cancellara, 26 of those taken by the first time check
> 
> Froome finished 35 seconds ahead of Cancellara. 22 of those seconds were taken by the first time check.
> 
> ...


Fair points....but you would expect Cancellera to gain some time back in the last 2/3rd's, wouldn't you?

And again, it's not like Cancelerra wasn't on form.......he beat everyone else in the field.

It's remarkable.

Len


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

roddjbrown said:


> Wiggins finished 51 seconds up on Cancellara, 26 of those taken by the first time check
> 
> Froome finished 35 seconds ahead of Cancellara. 22 of those seconds were taken by the first time check.
> 
> ...


in other words wiggins took out 25 seconds on the part that should then suit Cancellara well?


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

That depends. Froome yes, Wiggins no. 

Yes, Cancellara is a four times world TT champion, yes he's an absolute legend, but let's not forget he's not the current world TT champion. He finished behind Wiggo and Tony Martin in the worlds last year, admittedly only 5 seconds but nonetheless, he hadn't had two big climbing days before that event, nor radio problems during it, and it didn't have this strange hill that caused problems. 

Froome, yes I suppose it is a surprise because he's only done it once before. I think the surprise comes partly because everyone knows so little about him - he's of African descent and didn't really appear on the pro scene until a relatively late age. Then when he suddenly does he appears to be a true GC contender riding as a domestique. With regards to his TTing Sky may have held him back in other TT events. I don't think they ever intended him to go all the way to the line with Wiggins on Stage 7 and actually if he hadn't I think Evans might have gained a few seconds. Then when he does I think Sky start thinking about having two in the running and let him go for it on the TT. Boss-Hog's a good TTer generally but he took it very easy today.

Perhaps that's suspicious, perhaps not, me I'm not sure either way.


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## juno (Jul 18, 2008)

If something seems too good to be true it usually isn't....especially in TDF history.

Anywho, SKY definitely has a choke hold on the Yellow now. Every stage could be carnage now. Every team left looking for a podium spot or a stage win now....it's all they have left.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

gusmahler said:


> More disinformation.
> 
> Last year's Vuelta, stage 10 ITT. Notice which "climber" is ahead of Spartacus.


Uh huh. And how many times can Froome have a breakout performance? All after coming to Sky?

And how does Wiggins manage to hold Tour caliber form for near on 4 months?


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

robdamanii said:


> Uh huh. And how many times can Froome have a breakout performance? All after coming to Sky?
> 
> *And how does Wiggins manage to hold Tour caliber form for near on 4 months?*


He rides a lot.


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## gizzard (Oct 5, 2005)

robdamanii said:


> Uh huh. And how many times can Froome have a breakout performance? All after coming to Sky?
> 
> And how does Wiggins manage to hold Tour caliber form for near on 4 months?


Perhaps you should read up a bit about Wiggins' training regime under his new coach, an Australian ex-swimming coach. The strategy is to replicate racing intensities during training with the view to being marginally below your best throughout the season. Hence his consistency. Apparently the Sky training camps are brutal and very focused.


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## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

From what I could see, Cancellera did not look as good as he might have, nor did Cadel. No radio probably cost Spartacus, as did starting higher in the start order. In the post race interview, said he was still hurting from the previous couple of days racing. 

Cadel looked very smooth but did not look completely comfortable, and looked like he was in major pain when he finished. And he probably worked harder than Wiggo yesterday...And in the post-race interview, TeeJay said he put in a cautious ride because he promised Cadel he would not crash, so that probably meant a little time there.

Wiggo--I haven't seen anyone that shattered for a long time--they basically had to pick him off his bike. His form was perfect and I didn't see even a momentary bobble on any corner or otherwise. I'm sure that without a rest day, he would not have gone that hard, even for GC time.

Froome--I dunno. Like others have said, he's a bit of a dark horse. But I think he may have burned a few matches for the rides of yesterday and today--and could pay later...

So I can see the results of the TT being a fair representation of fitness/legs/general preparedness for the Tour--the big GC guys all finished about where you'd expect them to, even if Spartacus the odds-on favorite did not win.

The Radio Shack guys turned in some respectable performances, including Frank Schleck.

Time trial results aside, I think we have some serious racing to come, and Wiggo has cracked on the big climbs before.

I'm such an optimist--I can see Cadel/Teejay vs Wiggo/Froome vs ???? Radio Shack and maybe even Nibali as still in contention for the overall.

And Lady Luck is probably not finished yet for this year.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

gizzard said:


> Perhaps you should read up a bit about Wiggins' training regime under his new coach, an Australian ex-swimming coach. The strategy is to replicate racing intensities during training with the view to being marginally below your best throughout the season. Hence his consistency. Apparently the Sky training camps are brutal and very focused.


Some more info in an article written by William Fotheringham in Tenerife and published in the Guardian, Wednesday 23 May 2012



> But the previous three days have been six-hour stints, with some 4,000m of vertical climbing per day: he is aiming for a total of 100,000m climbing leading into the Tour. The menu is repeated in subsequent days. Whereas on his previous visit in April the workloads were "mid-range", the levels of intensity, pain and lactate have been increased this time. "Yesterday was 25‑minute efforts in 35C heat, three of them. It's hard to tell a layman what it feels like: it's hard in a very sweet way, all mixed up with the endorphins."
> 
> The work is at the near maximal intensity he might adopt in a prologue time trial, followed immediately by what amounts to weight training on the bike, a big-gear effort at low-pedal revolutions, at close to breaking point, all at an oxygen-deprived altitude between 1500m and 2,200m. After a rest he repeats it. All this, Kerrison believes, will prepare Wiggins's legs for the steepest climbs on this year's Tour


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

gizzard said:


> Perhaps you should read up a bit about Wiggins' training regime under his new coach, an Australian ex-swimming coach. The strategy is to replicate racing intensities during training with the view to being marginally below your best throughout the season. Hence his consistency. Apparently the Sky training camps are brutal and very focused.


I'm very aware of the program he's using.

The idea that he's not burned up by now, assuming the "brutality" of the racing and training camps he's done still raises questions.

I wonder how long until we hear the term "unearthly" come out of the recesses of Phil and Paul's bag.


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## CrazyCuz2K (Sep 8, 2009)

you hear them harping on the new skin suits that sky developed for less drag, and Wiggo complaining about having to wear the yellow suit in one of his races during the TT. You think it'll have that much less drag?


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## MG537 (Jul 25, 2006)

roddjbrown said:


> That depends. Froome yes, Wiggins no.
> Yes, Cancellara is a four times world TT champion, yes he's an absolute legend, but let's not forget he's not the current world TT champion. He finished behind Wiggo and Tony Martin in the worlds last year, admittedly only 5 seconds but nonetheless, he hadn't had two big climbing days before that event, nor radio problems during it, and it didn't have this strange hill that caused problems.


Before you and others draw your conclusions about the Cancellara and hills combination, just remember, that at the tour of Flanders, a race he won in 2010 and was again co-favorite this year, he had to contend with the following minor speed bumps such as
1) Koppenberg
2) Oude Kwaremont
3) Muur-Kapelmuur 
and a few others like them. If you don't know what they are Google them and see for yourself, especially what they're made of.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

paredown said:


> From what I could see, Cancellera did not look as good as he might have, nor did Cadel. No radio probably cost Spartacus, as did starting higher in the start order. In the post race interview, said he was still hurting from the previous couple of days racing.
> 
> Cadel looked very smooth but did not look completely comfortable, and looked like he was in major pain when he finished. And he probably worked harder than Wiggo yesterday...And in the post-race interview, TeeJay said he put in a cautious ride because he promised Cadel he would not crash, so that probably meant a little time there.
> 
> ...


Hope you are right......

But assuming that Evans losses another 1:45 or more in the reamining ITT, he will need to find 3:30 to 4:00 minutes in the mountains to have a chance of winning. With only 2 mountain finishes, unless wiggins cracks, it's hard to see him getting that much time.

Add In Fromme taking time in the next ITT, and Evans needing to get a couple of minutes on him also and it's not looking good.

Obviously a lot of racing left,........but I wouldn't bet on Evans.

Len


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

MG537 said:


> Before you and others draw your conclusions about the Cancellara and hills combination, just remember, that at the tour of Flanders, a race he won in 2010 and was again co-favorite this year, he had to contend with the following minor speed bumps such as
> 1) Koppenberg
> 2) Oude Kwaremont
> 3) Muur-Kapelmuur
> and a few others like them. If you don't know what they are Google them and see for yourself, especially what they're made of.


Did I draw conclusions? I'm simply pointing out some possible explanations for a time gap that certain dramatists seem determined to point to as a return to the dark days.

Incidentally that's two years ago, when he also won the Worlds. I'm not debating whether wiggo would have beaten 2010 Fabian.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

roddjbrown said:


> Did I draw conclusions? I'm simply pointing out some possible explanations for a time gap that certain dramatists seem determined to point to as a return to the dark days.
> 
> Incidentally that's two years ago, when he also won the Worlds. I'm not debating whether wiggo would have beaten 2010 Fabian.


A return implies that at some point we left the dark days. 

I hope you all are right.....I'm just not seeing it.

Len


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## roddjbrown (Jan 19, 2012)

CrazyCuz2K said:


> you hear them harping on the new skin suits that sky developed for less drag, and Wiggo complaining about having to wear the yellow suit in one of his races during the TT. You think it'll have that much less drag?


I was wondering exactly the same. I think it's mental. Wiggins comes from the GBR track team where their Beijing 2008 skin suits were apparently so secret they were burned afterwards


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## Fireform (Dec 15, 2005)

Cadel will be attacking early and often now. Should make for good viewing.


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## Wile_E_Coyote (Jul 15, 2011)

Interesting helmets that Team Sky had, at least to me. A bit of a departure from the elongated helmets with a tail. Were any other teams using similar?


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

Wile_E_Coyote said:


> Interesting helmets that Team Sky had, at least to me. A bit of a departure from the elongated helmets with a tail. Were any other teams using similar?


They're getting away from the super long aero helmets because they are only faster when the rider is looking forward. The new helmets are aero-er from a variety of positions, so the rider can move the head around without creating a huge sail on his head. Lots of people like to look down at their legs as the crank along.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

foto said:


> They're getting away from the super long aero helmets because they are only faster when the rider is looking forward. The new helmets are aero-er from a variety of positions, so the rider can move the head around without creating a huge sail on his head. Lots of people like to look down at their legs as the crank along.


Love to see some testing data on both the suits and the helmet differences........

Len


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Len J said:


> Love to see some testing data on both the suits and the helmet differences........
> 
> Len


if you leave a note the marketing department will get back to you asap.


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## foto (Feb 7, 2005)

den bakker said:


> if you leave a note the marketing department will get back to you asap.


The Kask helmets look like the skulls of a humanoid alien with an enlarged medulla oblongata. However, in a sport with tons of hideous equipment, I always thought tt helmets were the worst, and the kask is a definite improvement.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

den bakker said:


> if you leave a note the marketing department will get back to you asap.


 
LOL.

Len


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## wblas3271 (May 12, 2012)

robdamanii said:


> I'm very aware of the program he's using.
> 
> The idea that he's not burned up by now, assuming the "brutality" of the racing and training camps he's done still raises questions.
> 
> I wonder how long until we hear the term "unearthly" come out of the recesses of Phil and Paul's bag.


It may surprise you to learn that people *used* to race all season all the time.


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## ohvrolla (Aug 2, 2009)

Wow, a team leader and his domestique are that much faster than the rest of the field.

If cadel has any chance of winning somehow the pace will need to be high enough on the penultimate climb of a stage or two and drop wiggins then. Even if he catches up on the descent he could be a sitting duck on a final climb, plus Evans descends like a beast in regards to the lack of summit finishes


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## flyrunride (May 2, 2012)

What really surprised me was that Tony Martin getting a FLAT again?!?!?! what's wrong with his tires/wheels/mechanic? I was interested to see how he'd do even though he's injured


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## Skewer (Sep 13, 2011)

Watching this stage on tv, seems like everybody is sporting "S" gear or "S-Works" bike. Is Specialized what the majority uses?, Are they the best?


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

Wow, Postal, err, no, I mean Sky is plowing forward like a well oiled machine!

In all seriousness, Cadel could crack Wiggo after a couple of tough days in the mountains. He won't be able to crack Froome. So even if Wiggo cracks, Cadel is looking at 2nd (barring a mechanical/crash). 

The only way I see Cadel winning is if Sky plays the same game as they did in the Vuelta and hold Froome back to pace Wiggins.


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## robdamanii (Feb 13, 2006)

flyrunride said:


> What really surprised me was that Tony Martin getting a FLAT again?!?!?! what's wrong with his tires/wheels/mechanic? I was interested to see how he'd do even though he's injured


Another failure of that new S-Works TT clincher.


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## gusmahler (Apr 7, 2012)

Skewer said:


> Watching this stage on tv, seems like everybody is sporting "S" gear or "S-Works" bike. Is Specialized what the majority uses?, Are they the best?


No, the majority don't use Specialized, though Specialized does have more bikes at the tour than any other manufacturer.

There are 18 pro teams and each team uses a single brand of bikes.

Speciailzed: Astana, Saxo Bank, and Omega Pharma Quickstep

Trek: Radioshack-Nissan-Trek

Pinarello: Sky & Movistar

Cervelo: Garmin

Cannondale: Liquigas

Giant: Rabobank

Wilier: Lampre

Scott: Orica Green Edge

Canyon: Katusha

Ridley: Lotto-Belisol

Lapierre: FDJ

Kuota: Ag2R

BMC: BMC

Orbea: Euskatel

Bianchi: Vacansoleil

As for components: 10 teams use Shimano, 5 use SRAM, 3 use Campy. 

2012 WorldTour bikes: who's riding what this season | road.cc | Road cycling news, Bike reviews, Commuting, Leisure riding, Sportives and more


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*Froome*

would have won the Vuelta last year if he wasn't held back to aid a suffering Wiggo


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## dougydee (Feb 15, 2005)

gusmahler said:


> There are 18 pro teams and each team uses a single brand of bikes.


Don't forget the four wildcard teams 
Europcar - Colnago
Cofidis - Look
Saur Sojasun - Time
Argos Shimano - Felt


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## flyrunride (May 2, 2012)

robdamanii said:


> Another failure of that new S-Works TT clincher.


What!!! He should get gatorskin for the next iTT round. Someone's getting fired at Spez for this!!! World TT champ getting 2 flats in TdF ITT! :cryin:


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