# Why I'll probally never go back to San Diego again



## mr clean (Jan 5, 2006)

I usually go out to Arizona to train for a week or two in the winter months, but for a change I went out last week to ride and train in the San Diego area. 

We flew in and got our rental car. One turn later after we left the rental lot, while heading to our condo, I started to make a left turn onto Grape St. As soon as the light went yellow and I began my turn, it went immediately red. The lights started flashing from the red light enforcement camera and I'm sure I got bagged since I was at a slow speed.

I went online and found out this camera gets the most red light violations per month (over 3000 per month; THE MOST IN THE WHOLE US!) and I'm told it is mostly rent a car people from out of state with little knowledge of the area and the layout of the city that are getting ticketed.

I have also been told that this intersection is set up to churn tickets; which means it changes every minute or two regardless if opposing traffic is waiting or not in order to get more violators running the light.I was also told the yellow light time was cut in half as compared to other lights in the area. 

I am also told it is a $300 ticket (highest in the Country) which is going to be billed directly to my credit card through my rental company after the fact; no chance to refute, plead not guiltly, explain the situation, take photos to defend myself, etc.

This leads one to question why someone would put a camera on a poorly lit and marked intersection for out-of-towners when there has never been a death attributed to running a red light in this intersection...ever (their excuse for installing it there when I inquired about it; deaths and injuries). 

I am really annoyed that I and others were scammed by this device (I met three others that got nabbed at the rental return when I brought the car back) and the city of San Diego took advantage of visitors who are unfamiliar with the area. 

I am a good driver with no traffic tickets in the last 20 years. As a cyclist, I was taking it careful and watching out for bicycles, pedrestrians, etc, because I was in an unfamiliiar area and was taking it easy. Guess I was driving too slow when I didn't make the light and tripped the camera.

If you are considering a trip out there, please be aware of this scam. 

My advice, don't go to San Diego. Go somewhere else where they welcome visitors and don't take advantage of them.

Thanks.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

mr clean said:


> I usually go out to Arizona to train for a week or two in the winter months, but for a change I went out last week to ride and train in the San Diego area.
> 
> We flew in and got our rental car. One turn later after we left the rental lot, while heading to our condo, I started to make a left turn onto Grape St. As soon as the light went yellow and I began my turn, it went immediately red. The lights started flashing from the red light enforcement camera and I'm sure I got bagged since I was at a slow speed.
> 
> ...




Wow... Sorry to hear about that. That really sucks.


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## JaeP (Mar 12, 2002)

*Yellow light=prepare to stop.*

Don't blame the traffic light because you can't follow the rules and regulations.


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## JaeP (Mar 12, 2002)

*I've been TROLLED!*

Mr. Clean owns a condo in Sandy Eggo. I quote ". . . .while heading to our condo, I started to make a left turn onto Grape St." He has a condo in Sandy Eggo . . .

I'VE JUST BEEN TROLLED!!!!


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## mr clean (Jan 5, 2006)

Actually JaeP, I was staying in Coronado. 

I don't have a problem with rules, just the fact when you locate something like that with the intent of taking advantage of people from out of town that get the tickets weeks later and can do nothing about it. 

JaeP, If you traveled to do a race in another city you were unfamiliar with and the same tactics were applied to you I'm sure you'd feel the same.


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## Thorn Bait (Feb 3, 2004)

Besides, if the light is yellow when you enter the intersection, you didn't run a red. Sounds like an unfair light - sounds as though it is tagging people for not breaking a law.

Also, yellow doesn't mean prepare to stop - it means clear the intersection, and stop if safe to do so.


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## JaeP (Mar 12, 2002)

*Everyone in prison is innocent!*

Mr. Clean, I got nabbed at the second most "popular" camera intersection in San Diego (Aero Drive). And like you, I was making a turn on a yellow light. I bunch of lights flashed before me that I thought I was at a disco. And like you I was upset when I got a ticket. I was angry and filled with righteous indignation until I saw my picture that came with the ticket. You honestly believe that the traffic lights in San Diego are set up to purposely get people from out of town? That is ludicrous. You sound as if you're being singled out because you're from Arizona. That's even more ludicrous. Accept responsibility for your actions. 

Thorn Bait. I like my defintion of a yellow light. It's succinct. Even though yours is from the California DMV handbook I think it essentially means the same thing, only my definition has three words. The phrase "it means clear the intersection, and stop if safe to do so" leaves open the possibility to interpret that to mean "speed up" which is what I did. I paid my fine. I went to traffic school. The end.


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## mr clean (Jan 5, 2006)

> Mr. Clean, I got nabbed at the second most "popular" camera intersection in San Diego (Aero Drive). And like you, I was making a turn on a yellow light.


Then you got unfairly nailed too, but you're still missing my point.

You are from San Diego. You know the area. You drive those roads and pass through those intersections hundreds of times. You know the traffic patterns and where the cameras are.

I don't know about you, but I drive slower and cautiously when I'm in an unfamiliar city. It was dark, the signs to I-5 were small, and my wife and I were doing the responsible thing by being cautious navigating the area.

Your city put a traffic camera in a poorly lit area, turned the yellow light time down, and churned the light to turn more frequently. And to top it off, your city put it in the first intersection that every southbound rental car that leaves the airport has to go through. Plus we're all getting billed from our rental company with no say whatsoever.

I would classify that as a trap.


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## emckee (May 5, 2003)

mr clean said:


> Then you got unfairly nailed too, but you're still missing my point.
> 
> You are from San Diego. You know the area. You drive those roads and pass through those intersections hundreds of times. You know the traffic patterns and where the cameras are.
> 
> ...


I would expect that you should be able to refute the charges through your credit card company and through the city's police department. I'm not saying that you'll be able to get clear of them, but there's always a recourse. Sometimes it just takes more effort after the fact than others.

That said, I understand your frustration. I got tagged by a light up in the Carmel Mtn area a couple of years back. I think the biggest point of frustration is that you can't argue whether or not you ran the light with an officer at that moment. It just lets you brood on it. (grrr)

As far as waiting for there to be a fatality at an intersection before installing a red light camera, I can't agree with you. Proactive solutions (even if they piss people off) are preferable to funerals.

Any unfamiliar place, no matter what city, requires extra care when we hit the road.


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## wsexson (Jan 19, 2002)

Thorn Bait said:


> Also, yellow doesn't mean prepare to stop - it means clear the intersection, and stop if safe to do so.


+1

This is exactly what a yellow traffic light means in California.


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## surftel (Apr 18, 2005)

I live in San Diego, I go to and from the airport 2-3 per month. I know the light you are talking about. 

I have had the same thing happen to me, the yellow lasts about 2 seconds and suddenly you see the flash going off. It has happened to me twice, my mom a couple of times and my wife twice in the same day

the good news is we have NEVER received a ticket, I don't know if there is a malfunction in the light or what but everyone I know who has been nailed by that light has never received a ticket from it


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*we had most of the cameralights shut down here*

in San Diego.I'll forward this posting to the proper folks.That's BS and the product of what happens when the light and camera mfr get a piece of the ticket action. So sorry your experience was bad, I'd forward an e to the Chamber of Commerce and tell them this sin't good for tourism.

Hate those things, absolute rubbish,


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## neil0502 (Feb 11, 2005)

Good info here: http://www.sandiego.gov/engineering-cip/services/public/rlphoto/faq.shtml

Quoting: 

*What happens if I'm in the intersection when the light changes color?*
You will only receive a citation if you enter the intersection after the signal turns red. If you find yourself "trapped" in the intersection while the signal turns from yellow to red, you will not get a citation. It is good driving practice (and the law) to not enter an intersection unless you will be able to exit it, to avoid gridlock, so it's best to try to avoid getting trapped in the intersection in the first place.


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## Squeegy200 (Dec 1, 2005)

There was a constitutional challenge to the camera lights a few years back. I guess they didn't make a difference. I see these popping up everywhere and in every major city. They provide a nice form of income generation. 

the challenge was that unlike the traditional legal system, this automated camera does not allow you to face your accuser.


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## MootsRider (Jul 23, 2002)

*Irony of "facing your accuser"*

Have you ever seen the picture that's taken from one of these cameras? You are very much face-to-face with your accuser, albeit an automated one.

JP


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## mav616 (Mar 30, 2006)

*SD still a great place...*



rocco said:


> Wow... Sorry to hear about that. That really sucks.


 Those things should be set up to take note of some crazed DUI who's is out to kill someone....sounds like a bad experience, but on the up side did you get any training rides in?...


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