# Wheels for clydesdale



## sprocket47 (May 12, 2010)

I currently ride a touring bike with very strong wheels (Mavic A319 with 36 spoke count) and have had little problem other than a loose spoke now and then. I'm upgrading to a speedier lighter bike and the LBS guy is trying to push me up the price chain and as they get higher in cost the spoke count goes down. Specifically I'm looking at the Trek 1.5, 2.1 or 2.3 (see below for the wheels on each model). He reassures me that the reduced spoke count from the 1.5 (32) to 2.1 (24) does not affect the strength of the wheel because the rim is deeper which compensates the lack of spokes for strength and saves rolling weight and says I won't have a problem. Is this legit? Will I end up spending $1000 - $1700 on a bike then a month later another $$$$ on new stronger wheels? I would rather not so could someone give this a look and let me know if I'd be safe on any of these models without an immediate costly wheel upgrade?

I'm 6'4" and 260 lbs and I commute on sometimes rough city streets.

1.5 - Bontrager allow rims 32 spoke count ($1000)
2.1 - Bontrager SSR 24 spoke count ($1300)
2.3 - Bontrager Race 24 spoke count ($1600)
Another options: 
Motobecane Sprint with Vuelta XPR PRO wheel 24 spoke count ($1000)
Kestrel Evoke with FSA Gossamer wheel 24 spoke count ($1300)


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

I find this kind of stuff so sad because you're becoming a potential victim of the massive marketing machines - one operated by the bike makers and abetted by the boutique pre-built wheel makers and one operated by your dealer.

This comment is a beaut - "does not affect the strength of the wheel because the rim is deeper which compensates the lack of spokes for strength and saves rolling weight". There ain't no free lunch. A wheel assembly still has to do x amount of work. The further from the center of rotation that weight is, the more noticeable it is during riding. A light(er) rim is much more nimble than a heavier rim. Start removing spokes and the rim has to be much thicker to compensate. But there is a 2nd bad spinoff to this. Less spokes means that each spoke is doing more work. If one of those spokes breaks then it has much more effect than if a spoke breaks in high-count spoke wheels. There is a great chance that not only will the wheel be unridable but it probably won't even rotate. You'll be carrying the bike. With my 32 spoke wheels I'll ride home.

These low-spoke wheels were invented for the cutting-edge racing cyclist - 130 ~ 150lbs with a following vehicle bristling with spare bikes. Then, advertising being what it is, Joe Blow sees these wheels in the following month's bike mag and HAS to have a set; damn the negatives. Then the 200+lb Clyde guys want them too.

And someone has to pay for those magazine ads - and the prices top $1000 to allow this. You're getting sub-$500 quality wheels for 2-4x the price.

Finally, this year, after decades of building, racing and riding first 36 spoke wheels and more lately 32 spoke wheels, I went to a set of 24/28 wheels. And I'm sweating bullets. I'm 100 lbs *lighter* than you too. If **I** was your weight I'd be on 36 spoke wheels and nothing else.


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

I have to agree with Mike T. As a fellow Clydesdale at 6'3" 215 lbs, I would not settle for lower spoke count wheels. There are Clydes that do ride lower spoke count wheels but they'll have their moment when they are stranded with busted spokes or hubs. If you want to go lower, I would suggest nothing lower than 32 spokes. 

The LBS are right about the deeper section low spoke aero wheels being stronger, but that statement is ambiguous. They are stronger than non deep section low spoke count wheels. You need true Clyde-friendly wheels like Velocity Deep Vs, DT Swiss R1.1/1.2s, and Mavic CXP 33s. Have these hand-built with Ultegra hubs in a 32 spoke or 36 spoke setup (for added security) w/ DT spokes and you will be set. Velocity even offers the Deep Vs pre-built w/ Velocity hubs too. They are actually built by the factory after you order them. If you go this route, one cool thing you'll notice that the rim has the date the wheels were built and the builder's initials. When us Clydes get in the saddle, durability is top priority in a wheelset. 

Also, if you want a lower cost wheelset than what I've mentioned, you can pick up a set of Mavic Open Pros w/Ultegra hubs for a really reasonable price form places like Performancebike.com and BikeWheelWarehouse.com. I believe that BWW tends to sell them, for around $250 and Performance around $300. Need lower price, try any Mavic CXP hoop built on 105 hubs. Those are pretty good to. FWIW, it's lusually less expensive to buy hand-built wheels than off the shelf pre-built ones.

By the way, I'm a big chainring guy and have broken enough spokes on lower spoke count wheels to consider myself experienced enough. I currently ride Velocity Deep Vs on my four road bikes. One has the Velocity built and the others are hand-built. All of them are strong wheels. I've driven over serious potholes and none of these wheels have gone out of true yet. One set is pushing 8,000 miles and has needed nothing.


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## TTCC (Feb 27, 2010)

I also noticed that your selection is limited to "Trek" branded products. There are some nice factory wheels out there, though they are (typically) expensive for what you really get. 

I would personally avoid any of those choices and go with "terbennett's" advice on a 30ish mm rim (Velocity Deep V for one...) with a well known and dependable hub laced 32 x 3. Wheels take more abuse than any other component, so take a sensible approach and you'll be ok for the long haul.

Edit: It is not the bike choice in question... just the wheel upgrade/upcharge on that bike. As Mike T and terbennett noted, the wheel choices suggested can be had for around the $400 mark and will be a far better bargain than what the Trek offerings are.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Thanks for that great in-detail compliment to my post. You gave some excellent examples and I'd like to add this - if a person wants to drop a bit more coin for a sensible upgrade, even though there is almost no measurable difference, then go with DuraAce hubs, especially the new tool-less bearing adjustment 7900 version. I have both Ultegra and D/A hubbed wheelsets.

You mentioned  Bicycle Wheel Warehouse. Both those setsof wheels came from there and they have been perfect. I advise quite a lot of people about suitable wheelsets and I wish BWW would offer 36 spoke varieties as there are many N.Americans over 200lbs. Maybe I'll make the suggestion to BWW's Chris.


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## sprocket47 (May 12, 2010)

> I also noticed that your selection is limited to "Trek" branded products. There are some nice factory wheels out there, though they are (typically) expensive for what you really get.


Those are bikes that I've narrowed my search to. I'm curious if one would have a better wheel than another. But it's sounding like I should stay with a higher spoke count - like the 32 on the Trek 1.5 which would save me some money and I actually like that bike, then upgrade with $300 or so for a better wheelset down the road. If I got one of the other bike choices with 24 spoke count, I understand I should do the upgrade sooner than later before I'm stuck waiting for the sag wagon on my next century. This also pushes me away from the bikesdirect options (moto sprint and kestrel evoke) simply because it would be nice knowing I have the bontrager 5 year warrantee sitting under my heavy butt...just in case. Even though I'll be giving up a component upgrade on the BD bikes.


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## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

sprocket47 said:


> Those are bikes that I've narrowed my search to. I'm curious if one would have a better wheel than another. But it's sounding like I should stay with a higher spoke count - like the 32 on the Trek 1.5 which would save me some money and I actually like that bike, then upgrade with $300 or so for a better wheelset down the road. If I got one of the other bike choices with 24 spoke count, I understand I should do the upgrade sooner than later before I'm stuck waiting for the sag wagon on my next century. This also pushes me away from the bikesdirect options (moto sprint and kestrel evoke) simply because it would be nice knowing I have the bontrager 5 year warrantee sitting under my heavy butt...just in case. Even though I'll be giving up a component upgrade on the BD bikes.



Thanks for including us in the options you look at
But I think you are correct to be concerned about wheels

One of the best wheelsets I have seen in the last 30 years for durability with higher weight on the cycle is the Vuelta XRP Tourist wheelset. We sell these on bikeisland for $199.
http://bikeisland.com/cgi-bin/BKTK_STOR20.cgi?Action=Details&ProdID=1776

No matter what bike you get; you might consider selling the stock wheels on ebay
and replacing with some super duty wheels like the XRP Tourist -- and the net price difference might be very little or even zero

Good luck and have fun


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## zooog (Mar 18, 2002)

i don't know a ton about wheels like the guys on this forum but don't buy the bike b/c of wheels buy the bike b/c it fits and you want that bike. deal with the wheel issue later...good luck.


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## gtpharr (Oct 6, 2008)

Mike T. said:


> You mentioned  Bicycle Wheel Warehouse. Both those setsof wheels came from there and they have been perfect. I advise quite a lot of people about suitable wheelsets and I wish BWW would offer 36 spoke varieties as there are many N.Americans over 200lbs. Maybe I'll make the suggestion to BWW's Chris.


The first set of wheels I bought were 32H Mavic CXP-33/Ultegra from BWW. I have been satisfied with the wheels and the price was great. When I needed another set of wheels, I wanted a 36H for the rear. As you have mentioned, BWW does not offer anything with 36H. So I've had to use other builders for my last 2 sets of wheels. I'm not sure why BWW has decided not to offer a 36H wheel, but I sure wish they would.


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

Since you're considering bikesdirect, is recommend the Windsor kennet. It's the best value there, and yo can sell the wheels for something nicer. The rest of the bike is fanastic. I'm not knocking the stock wheels, but at your weight, you'd benfit from stronger.


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## sprocket47 (May 12, 2010)

_



i don't know a ton about wheels like the guys on this forum but don't buy the bike b/c of wheels buy the bike b/c it fits and you want that bike. deal with the wheel issue later...good luck.

Click to expand...

_
I understand what you're saying but I've narrowed down the bikes that fit but now I'm just trying to get the best (most appropriate) component groups, including wheels, to prevent me from dishing out a ton of $$$ shortly after the purchase. I love to upgrade but I would prefer not to do it on a new bike just because what I purchased sucks for my need.

Obviously I haven't riden the bikesdirect options I listed but I have riden the Trek and from my understanding the geometry is the same. And I can save a ton compared to the components on a trek so it's very tempting. But the LBS experience, warrantee and support could come in handy...even though I haven't taken my bikes into the shop for work in over 15 years.

I also don't know a ton about wheels and knowing they can be quite expensive I figured this should be a significant piece of my selection equation, especially considering my size.


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## sprocket47 (May 12, 2010)

_



Since you're considering bikesdirect, is recommend the Windsor kennet...

Click to expand...

_Unfortunately they are sold out of my size, and most others in the Kennet. I'm also considering the Windsor Knight.


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## Peanya (Jun 12, 2008)

That's a fairly nice deal too. What you're not realizing is that you can get some very high quality wheels for just over and under $400. The $1000+ wheelsets, for the most part are more bling than better.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

sprocket47 said:


> I currently ride a touring bike with very strong wheels (Mavic A319 with 36 spoke count) and have had little problem other than a loose spoke now and then.


Properly tensioned wheels do not develop loose spokes. Either you have a bad wheel build or have added a bend that precludes the spokes being uniformly tight (a left-right bend means the spokes on the convex side will be loose and concave side tight).



> I'm upgrading to a speedier lighter bike and the LBS guy is trying to push me up the price chain and as they get higher in cost the spoke count goes down. Specifically I'm looking at the Trek 1.5, 2.1 or 2.3 (see below for the wheels on each model). He reassures me that the reduced spoke count from the 1.5 (32) to 2.1 (24) does not affect the strength of the wheel because the rim is deeper which compensates the lack of spokes for strength and saves rolling weight and says I won't have a problem. Is this legit?


No, apart from which the failure mode is less benign. With 32 or 36 spokes you can often cause one to go slack due to a bent rim and still have the wheels true enough to ride home. With fewer spokes that's less likely.

You want conventional wheels with 32 or 36 spokes, cross-3 lacing so the spokes are nearly tangential to the hub flanges, double butted spokes so the stresses are concentrated in the middles instead of the elbows so fatigue failures are less likely and where the spokes stay tight with more deformation, and hand built  wheels that have uniform high tension and don't go out of true until you bend the rim.

Ideally, you also want an offset rear rim which allows the wheel to be built with less dish.


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

I always enjoyed Peter White's rant on wheels. . . 

". . .So, when you call and tell me you weigh as much as the typical NFL running back and you're just tickled pink with your Campy Record 10 speed equipped bike but you want a set of wheels that are light weight and "bomb proof" (I love that one!) don't be surprised when I suggest you go on a diet and call me back in a few years. I'm not writing this because I don't want your business, it's because I hate feeding on misconceptions spread by the marketing departments of various cycling companies and the moronic magazine scribes. . . ."


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

gtpharr said:


> The first set of wheels I bought were 32H Mavic CXP-33/Ultegra from BWW. I have been satisfied with the wheels and the price was great. When I needed another set of wheels, I wanted a 36H for the rear. As you have mentioned, BWW does not offer anything with 36H. So I've had to use other builders for my last 2 sets of wheels. I'm not sure why BWW has decided not to offer a 36H wheel, but I sure wish they would.


I spoke overnight to BWW's Chris about this and their 36 spoke wheelsets are *just around the corner*. This is great news for the heavy boys who are not willing to fall for the "24 spokes are great for you" brainwashing.


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## drdiaboloco (Apr 10, 2010)

bikesdirect said:


> One of the best wheelsets I have seen in the last 30 years for durability with higher weight on the cycle is the Vuelta XRP Tourist wheelset. We sell these on bikeisland for $199.


The fact that there's no weight listed for the Tourist wheelset does make one wonder.... Though going for the 1500g wheels to roll under a Clyde is a recipe for disaster, you don't want to go with 2500g anchors, either if you have any plan on minimizing weight.


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## Fai Mao (Nov 3, 2008)

I am a smaller Clydsdale at only about 205 and 6 foot. I commute about 15 miles a day three days a week and ride the bus if it rains. I do not own an automoble or have a driver's license. 

I would advise you to drop the 700 c wheels and prebuilt bikes as a whole. Look for a 650B wheel because those come in a little wider tire size and are stronger. As you are not a racer your are not going to need the more aero stuff anyway. The advantages given by those deep profile aero rims only start to be noticiable after about 35KPH most of the time so if your average speed is less than that why bother?

Two frames to look at: Sam Hillborne by Riverndell and the much less expensive Poli-valent by Velo Orange. 

I ride a Sam Hillborne with Velocity Dyad rims, DT Swiss 370 hubs and Maxy-Fasty tires which are about 32-35 mm wide. The wheels have with 32 spokes. These wheels and tires are strong, smooth rolling, handle well and actually rather light. I have an old triathlon bike with Mavic CX-22 rims on an unidentified hub and the 650B wheels and tire combo are LIGHTER though a lot of that may be the hub. But not only are they lighter they are stronger! 

My frame, fork, headset, bottom bracket and seatpost was USD $1000.00. 

Componants were really problematic for me because I have a rather severe allergy to Shimano. Campy does not even make gears low enough for a touring bike so I searched around on E-bay and bought a set NOS Suntour XC-Pro Derailleurs, thumbshifters and canti-lever calipers. A Nitto stem and wide flat bars, Sram 8 speed cassette and chain rounded out the build and the total was about USD $3000.00 including having the wheels built but reusing my 25 year-old Brooks saddle

But ---- If I'd had the wheels built with Shimano Tiagra or Deore hubs and hadn't had to pay a premium for the NOS derailleurs and shifters I could have brought that price down to just over USD $2000.00 without much problem. The Polivalent could probably be built up really nice for 1500 or so. The middle range of Shimano components work fine for most people as do the SRAM 5 or 7 range. I would recommend either the Sugino XD-700 triple Crank or the slightly less expensive Stronglight Impact 48/38/26 crank for these bikes 

You can add fenders, run lights, front and rear racks to these bikes as well. They are better for commuting in every way. It is just a better type bike for the non-racer


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## sprocket47 (May 12, 2010)

@Fai Mao

You bring up an excellent point which causes me to have an epiphany (doesn't happen very often). One thing I failed to mention is that my current touring bike is a small for me and I've been forcing myself to live with it. That's what started my interest in searching for a new ride. After reading your post I realize I have a good set of components (even the wheels are good but apparently after a previous post pointed out, are in need of a professional true due to my loose spoke issues) perfect for a commuter and even a century or two. So why don't I just shop for a bigger and better frame that would meet my needs and swap over the parts (maybe even upgrading one or two along the way)?!!!

Thanks!!!


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## dadoflam (Jan 19, 2008)

I'm going to throw something else into the ring here - mainly as a longer term perspective item. I'm a Clyde and got into road riding about 3 years ago - started at 250lbs - now about 215lbs. The advice given above is certainly above reproach from a structural perspective - good solid info - sensible to a fault - but to a newbie it gives the impression that heavy riders can only aspire to heavily spoked box-section wheels and can forget about wheels that are 'racier' visually and literally - not very inspiring for some.

Clearly a $2,000+ set of wheels is not on your agenda at present but as an aspirational item a very strong set of wheels can be built from good quality deep section carbon rims and decent hubs specifically for big riders. My everyday wheels are a set of Edge Composite 45mm carbon clinchers with 24/28 DT Aerolite spokes laced to an Alchemy ELF front hub and DT240 rear (some would say the Alchemy rear is even better)- I ride them everywhere including hills and they are very strong and at 1400g quite light. Before my curent wheels I rode a set of Corima Aero + wheels which were also impressively strong (structural foam cored rims) and very aero.
Even a set of Kinlin 30mm alloy rims with similar lacing will give a very strong, light and attractive wheelset. For these types of wheels a chat with Jason at Fairwheels bikes is definitely worth pursuing.

I put this on the table just in case you sometimes wanted to be a weekend cafe racer with sexy wheels inbetween doing the hard slog rides on the sensible wheels  

Either way - enjoy


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## TTCC (Feb 27, 2010)

sprocket47 said:


> Those are bikes that I've narrowed my search to. I'm curious if one would have a better wheel than another. But it's sounding like I should stay with a higher spoke count - like the 32 on the Trek 1.5 which would save me some money and I actually like that bike, then upgrade with $300 or so for a better wheelset down the road. If I got one of the other bike choices with 24 spoke count, I understand I should do the upgrade sooner than later before I'm stuck waiting for the sag wagon on my next century. This also pushes me away from the bikesdirect options (moto sprint and kestrel evoke) simply because it would be nice knowing I have the bontrager 5 year warrantee sitting under my heavy butt...just in case. Even though I'll be giving up a component upgrade on the BD bikes.


If you like the Trek 1.5, and if it boils down to the wheel differences, go for the "cheaper" (I love the marketing here...:blush2: ) high spoke count wheels. The differences between the other wheels will not mean anything in weight or performance that you will notice. Ride the 1.5 and enjoy it and down the road invest in another wheelset with a nice hub from a good builder and keep the originals as a back up.

The "handbuilt" by a good builder is the key. The spec'd wheels may be machine built and quality can be hit or miss. They are easily fixed by any shop ( or learn to do it yourself) if any spokes need tweaked so don't let that bother you...

Good luck.


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## ezdoesit (Sep 7, 2008)

sprocket47,
Here is what I now have and defiantly recommend for a heavy weight they are the Mavic A719 made for Touring or Tandem bikes so they are heavy duty I have the Ultegra hubs I replace my stock Fuji rims that came with my 2008 Fuji Touring bike because I was constantly breaking rear spokes so I said enough with this and had the A719 made.I went with the 36 spokes.
And the rest as they say is history.
Hope this helps you out.
http://www.mavic.com/road/products/a-719.324119.2.aspx
:thumbsup:


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