# You Just Can't Fix Stupid!



## Zeet

So last month, I'm standing in line at my LBS waiting to pay for my new lock, when I hear this obese looking guy ask for help on the floor in finding a really light carbon framed road bike. The salesman asks this guy if this bike was for him or someone else. The fat guy then gives him this disgusting look of insult, and responds by answering, "It's for me, of course!". The salesman shows this guy several bikes in his size and the fat guy insists upon buying the lightest carbon fiber bike that Trek makes, despite the cost. I mean this guy is looking at $4K and $6K bikes, all the while asking about which bike is likely to be the lightest and fastest. The salesman never bothers to explain to this guy that speed is primarily dependent upon the overall strength and weight of the rider.

The salesman has a slight smirk on his face as all the witnesses can easily tell what he's thinking*...People who are quite a bit more than slightly obese, need not be concerned about the weight of any kind of upscaled, high end, carbon fiber racing bike, if they themselves by far outweigh any of their competitors.
*
Finally, I get to the cashier and pay for my lock. Afterwards, I walk out of this bike shop just shaking my head at all the insanity. 

You just can't fix stupid!


----------



## Opus51569

Did you consider that maybe this "stupid" guy doesn't plan on being overweight forever? Maybe this "stupid" guy recently lost 50 pounds and this bike is his reward to himself and motivation to get in better shape.

Nah, nevermind. Myopia and snap judgments are easier.


----------



## tihsepa

Neeto.

View attachment 277928


----------



## Zeet

tihsepa said:


> Neeto.
> 
> View attachment 277928


Geez! Thanx! What a pick me up!...Got any of those in size C?


----------



## Zeet

Opus51569 said:


> Did you consider that maybe this "stupid" guy doesn't plan on being overweight forever? Maybe this "stupid" guy recently lost 50 pounds and this bike is his reward to himself and motivation to get in better shape.


I would think that the last thing you'd want to do, would be to ride a CF road racing bike that has a weight limit far below your current weight, not knowing for certain if you'd be capable of losing anymore excess weight. To purchase a high end CF racing bike in anticipation of losing this weight before you've actually lost it, just seems "stupid" to me. It also seems "stupid" to exceed the manufacturer's standard weight capacity of any bicycle, as well.

It was also irresponsible of the salesman not to inform this guy about the manufacturer's standard weight capacity nor the physical dynamics involved in racing a bike. Losing weight should have been this guy's first item on the agenda, before being concerned about buying the lightest bike.


----------



## bruin11

So there is a weight limit on the bike purchased by this slightly obese person? And you know this how?


----------



## AJ88V

Understand the OP's post, but


Opus51569 said:


> Did you consider that maybe this "stupid" guy doesn't plan on being overweight forever? Maybe this "stupid" guy recently lost 50 pounds and this bike is his reward to himself and motivation to get in better shape.
> 
> Nah, nevermind. Myopia and snap judgments are easier.


This is a really great response.

I'm probably still 20 lbs overweight after a too-long winter. That hasn't stopped me from weight-weenie-ing my bike, and all that does is motivate me to ride more.


----------



## Zeet

bruin11 said:


> So there is a weight limit on the bike purchased by this slightly obese person? And you know this how?


Yes. For Trek racing road bikes, it's 275 lbs. This guy easily exceeded that limit buy at least fifty pounds.

www.trekbikes.com/faq/questions.php?questionid=104


----------



## Zeet

AJ88V said:


> Understand the OP's post, but
> 
> This is a really great response.
> 
> I'm probably still 20 lbs overweight after a too-long winter. That hasn't stopped me from weight-weenie-ing my bike, and all that does is motivate me to ride more.


Alright then, you'll readily admit that losing 20lbs. in the not too distant future, would be a more intelligent option, than just buying the lightest bike. I'd much rather buy a used MTB for exercise and training, until I got my weight down. Then I'd be ready to pull the trigger on a brand new 6 Series Madone.


----------



## F350Lawman

Heck, most of us could easily (me included) lose 5 lbs and save the several thousand and the time, TRYING to find a 5lb lighter bike ( if that is even possible for some with good bikes already). IF this was this guys reward for losing some of the weight, that is great. However, all too often... just like in golf, tennis, racquetball, etc. its a guy trying to buy a "game". Like the guy who can't putt, who buys a $375 Scotty Cameron when he would be better served with a Walmart putter and $350 of putting lessons. Sure it would be great to do both, but most people don't...they want a shortcut.

When I max out my physical fitness and my putting, I'll get the carbon frame and the Scotty


----------



## jwl325

I think F350 is right, a lot of folks look for a technical short cut....but not everyone is that way. 

I screw around with three hobbies...cycling, golf and guitar. I'm not great at any of them, but I enjoy them and that's the motivation. In all three cases, I like to, when I'm able, buy some nice gear to use. 

If I buy a high-end guitar, it doesn't mean I believe it will make me sound like John Lennon or Eric Clapton--but it does make me happy when I pick it up to play. Same with golf clubs, same with bikes. 

I have examples in all three venues that are, in the eyes of many I suppose, well beyond my station in that particular pursuit. But I enjoy them, and since I pretty much do the hobbies for myself, that's really the only verdict I care about.

I don't mean that to come across as bragging in any way, just wanted to point out that everyone who has managed to acquire a nice bike or other toy isn't necessarily looking to fool themselves, or anyone else.


----------



## PlatyPius

Zeet said:


> Yes. For Trek racing road bikes, it's 275 lbs. This guy easily exceeded that limit buy at least fifty pounds.
> 
> www.trekbikes.com/faq/questions.php?questionid=104





bruin11 said:


> So there is a weight limit on the bike purchased by this slightly obese person? And you know this how?


If the guy weighs 325, he's morbidly obese, not slightly obese - unless he's 7 feet tall and built like a linebacker.

I'm morbidly obese. I used to ride a Scott CR1. After that, I had a TIME RX Instinct. Now I have a Cyfac.

Bikes are like cars to some people... if you're really into them, you want yours to be the fastest, lightest, coolest one out there. It doesn't matter if you really need one or not; it's all about want. If a fat guy can afford to buy one, he should.

HOWEVER... if Trek has a weight limit, the shop should have told the guy that. Did you hear all of the conversation? Did the guy maybe say that he was buying a bike to ride after he had lost some weight?


----------



## Zeet

jwl325 said:


> I think F350 is right, a lot of folks look for a technical short cut....but not everyone is that way.
> 
> I screw around with three hobbies...cycling, golf and guitar. I'm not great at any of them, but I enjoy them and that's the motivation. In all three cases, I like to, when I'm able, buy some nice gear to use.
> 
> If I buy a high-end guitar, it doesn't mean I believe it will make me sound like John Lennon or Eric Clapton--but it does make me happy when I pick it up to play. Same with golf clubs, same with bikes.
> 
> I have examples in all three venues that are, in the eyes of many I suppose, well beyond my station in that particular pursuit. But I enjoy them, and since I pretty much do the hobbies for myself, that's really the only verdict I care about.
> 
> I don't mean that to come across as bragging in any way, just wanted to point out that everyone who has managed to acquire a nice bike or other toy isn't necessarily looking to fool themselves, or anyone else.


True JW, but your buying expensive guitars or golf gear doesn't really place either you or your hobby toys in jeopardy. Riding an expensive CF road racing bike as an obese person, places both the cyclist and the bike at risk. Having an accident while cycling, can greatly exacerbate potential injury, if the cyclists is obese. Furthermore, the high end CF bike will be viewed with constant suspicion, provided that it appears to have survived the collision unscathed.


----------



## chudak

Opus51569 said:


> Did you consider that maybe this "stupid" guy doesn't plan on being overweight forever? Maybe this "stupid" guy recently lost 50 pounds and this bike is his reward to himself and motivation to get in better shape.
> 
> Nah, nevermind. Myopia and snap judgments are easier.


+1

I'm a clyde. I have a carbon bike. Clearly the bike doesn't make me go faster but it sure is fun to ride. I'm not naive enough to buy some 18 spoke wheels but the frame is a different story.

I'm down more than 30 lbs from a year ago between the riding, the walking and the weight lifting. I'm still a long way from my college riding days but it took me 20 years to get here it may take awhile to reverse some of the neglect.

Don't be so smug...you might not always look the way you do now.


----------



## jwl325

That's a fair point Z. But we don't really know what the buyer was planning on doing with the bike right away...maybe he was just wanting to hang it on a rack in his LR till he hit his goal...maybe not.

Just me, but I'd find more fault with the shop guy than I would with the buyer...


----------



## Zeet

PlatyPius said:


> If the guy weighs 325, he's morbidly obese, not slightly obese - unless he's 7 feet tall and built like a linebacker.
> 
> I'm morbidly obese. I used to ride a Scott CR1. After that, I had a TIME RX Instinct. Now I have a Cyfac.
> 
> Bikes are like cars to some people... if you're really into them, you want yours to be the fastest, lightest, coolest one out there. It doesn't matter if you really need one or not; it's all about want. If a fat guy can afford to buy one, he should.
> 
> HOWEVER... if Trek has a weight limit, the shop should have told the guy that. Did you hear all of the conversation? Did the guy maybe say that he was buying a bike to ride after he had lost some weight?


I don't know why I chose to use the word "slightly" (perhaps subconsciously I was trying to be polite).

I dunno, if someone is obese and simultaneously concerned about attaining greater speed when cycling, I'd think the most judicious manner in which to achieve such a goal would be to lose weight. That would not only be the most expedient route, but it would also be the most healthy method.


----------



## F350Lawman

I understand completely, I like to have the best of some things too...other times I avoid spending big doollar$ it until I get at least "decent" at the activity  It all depends on the activity.



jwl325 said:


> I think F350 is right, a lot of folks look for a technical short cut....but not everyone is that way.
> 
> I screw around with three hobbies...cycling, golf and guitar. I'm not great at any of them, but I enjoy them and that's the motivation. In all three cases, I like to, when I'm able, buy some nice gear to use.
> 
> If I buy a high-end guitar, it doesn't mean I believe it will make me sound like John Lennon or Eric Clapton--but it does make me happy when I pick it up to play. Same with golf clubs, same with bikes.
> 
> I have examples in all three venues that are, in the eyes of many I suppose, well beyond my station in that particular pursuit. But I enjoy them, and since I pretty much do the hobbies for myself, that's really the only verdict I care about.
> 
> I don't mean that to come across as bragging in any way, just wanted to point out that everyone who has managed to acquire a nice bike or other toy isn't necessarily looking to fool themselves, or anyone else.


----------



## Zeet

chudak said:


> +1
> 
> I'm a clyde. I have a carbon bike. Clearly the bike doesn't make me go faster but it sure is fun to ride. I'm not naive enough to buy some 18 spoke wheels but the frame is a different story.
> 
> I'm down more than 30 lbs from a year ago between the riding, the walking and the weight lifting. I'm still a long way from my college riding days but it took me 20 years to get here it may take awhile to reverse some of the neglect.
> 
> Don't be so smug...you might not always look the way you do now.


Sorry, Chudak!

I didn't intend to offend or appear to be smug, but you've just got to admit the fact, that the best way to increase speed in the long run, is to simply lose weight. 

I say, buy a used MTB or whatever. Then train and exercise until you've lost a sufficient amount of weight. Next, buy the ideal CF road bike that suits your proper anatomy.

A high impact collision on a CF road bike carrying an obese person, sounds fairly catastrophic to me.


----------



## PlatyPius

Zeet said:


> Sorry, Chudak!
> 
> I didn't intend to offend or appear to be smug, but you've just got to admit the fact, that the best way to increase speed in the long run, is to simply lose weight.
> 
> *I say, buy a used MTB or whatever. *Then train and exercise until you've lost a sufficient amount of weight. Next, buy the ideal CF road bike that suits your proper anatomy.
> 
> A high impact collsion on a CF road bike carrying an obese person, sounds fairly catastrophic to me.


But no one cares what you say.

I'm a lard ass. I ride a $6500 Cyfac. Should I return it or stop riding it until I'm slim enough that you approve?

A high impact collision on a CF road bike carrying ANY person, sounds fairly catastrophic to me.


----------



## Salsa_Lover

Maybe the OP is just jealous, because all that he could afford from that shop is a lock, and not a high end carbon frame rrr:


----------



## bruin11

PlatyPius said:


> But no one cares what you say.
> 
> I'm a lard ass. I ride a $6500 Cyfac. Should I return it or stop riding it until I'm slim enough that you approve?
> 
> A high impact collision on a CF road bike carrying ANY person, sounds fairly catastrophic to me.


 +1

I always shake my head when I read posts from people saying how other people should spend their money. Like it's any of their business.


----------



## Zeet

Salsa_Lover said:


> Maybe the OP is just jealous, because all that he could afford from that shop is a lock, and not a high end carbon frame rrr:


Well there you have it! 

...I guess I'm busted...


----------



## Zeet

Deleted


----------



## LowCel

Crap, I weigh 215 and I just bought a Parlee Z5 SLi. I'm screwed!!!


----------



## Oxtox

so, what's worse...

a tubby guy buying a sweet ride or a mope on the internet not minding his own business...?

extra credit if you don't google the answer.


----------



## chudak

Salsa_Lover said:


> Maybe the OP is just jealous, because all that he could afford from that shop is a lock, and not a high end carbon frame rrr:


Repped!


----------



## Zeet

Oxtox said:


> so, what's worse...
> 
> a tubby guy buying a sweet ride or a mope on the internet not minding his own business...?
> 
> extra credit if you don't google the answer.


How's about a tubby mope on the INTERNET not minding his own business!


----------



## Zeet

LowCel said:


> Crap, I weigh 215 and I just bought a Parlee Z5 SLi. I'm screwed!!!


Unfortunately Lowcel, life for you as you know it today, is over...You're all washed up now!


----------



## Zeet

chudak said:


> Repped!


Hey there, Chudak!

Where's the love, dude? :cryin:


----------



## Camilo

I think the OP mentioned that he heard the big guy wanting the "lightest and fastest" bike. And then OP mentioned the concept of faster several more times in terms of buying stuff isn't the way to get faster. I don't disagree with that point at all.

But there's more to buying a fine bike - expensive, light, whatever - than going fast. Surely you know that even slow riders can really enjoy a top end lightweight bike with the best components? If not, well, you just learned something. Plus, even slow riders will go a little faster on a lighter/better bike. Or it will feel faster. Regardless, totally worth it if you can afford it.


----------



## y2kota

Zeet said:


> Yes. For Trek racing road bikes, it's 275 lbs. This guy easily exceeded that limit buy at least fifty pounds.
> 
> www.trekbikes.com/faq/questions.php?questionid=104


Thought you were in my LBS while I was shopping for my Trek. But after the above post shows me that you were not. I'm about 195lbs.


----------



## dnice

people drive cars with 500 hp. they use those cars to go to dinners, shopping and spend lots of time in traffic. this is kinda the same. the couple guys around here who said they get a thrill passing guys on expensive bikes, should be cool with it. fresh meat!


----------



## RolandG

Zeet said:


> Alright then, you'll readily admit that losing 20lbs. in the not too distant future, would be a *more *intelligent option, *than just* buying the lightest bike. I'd much rather buy a used MTB for exercise and training, until I got my weight down. Then I'd be ready to pull the trigger on a brand new 6 Series Madone.



Why does it have to be either/or?


----------



## Zeet

RolandG said:


> Why does it have to be either/or?


Because IMHO, riding a brand new top end CF road racing bike at 325 pounds or greater, doesn't make as much sense as riding a used MTB at that same weight.


In all likelihood, the MTB would be closer to the ground. Therefore, your feet will be better able to maintain your balance, just in case of an emergency. Also, your tires will be wider and most likely thicker too. Therefore, the MTB should be better at supporting your weight.


----------



## RolandG

That doesn't answer my question.

You wrote that losing weight would be "a more intelligent option *than just* buying the lightest bike".

Why do you think this is an either/or scenario? Why not do both?


----------



## PlatyPius

Zeet said:


> Because IMHO, riding a brand new top end CF road racing bike at 325 pounds or greater, doesn't make as much sense as riding a used MTB at that same weight.
> 
> 
> In all likelihood, the MTB would be closer to the ground. Therefore, your feet will be better able to maintain your balance, just in case of an emergency. Also, your tires will be wider and most likely thicker too. Therefore, the MTB should be better at supporting your weight.


Are you for real?
I can ride a bike just fine without falling over. I'm fat, not retarded. Hell, I've never even broken a spoke in years and tens of thousands of miles of cycling as a fat man.


----------



## tihsepa

Zeet said:


> Because IMHO, riding a brand new top end CF road racing bike at 325 pounds or greater, doesn't make as much sense as riding a used MTB at that same weight.
> 
> 
> In all likelihood, the MTB would be closer to the ground. Therefore, your feet will be better able to maintain your balance, just in case of an emergency. Also, your tires will be wider and most likely thicker too. Therefore, the MTB should be better at supporting your weight.


You are joking right? Please tell me you are making these true stories up. Please.


----------



## Zeet

PlatyPius said:


> Are you for real?
> I can ride a bike just fine without falling over. I'm fat, not retarded. Hell, I've never even broken a spoke in years and tens of thousands of miles of cycling as a fat man.


Sir, only the facts are real. The actual physical fact of the matter is that mass times acceleration is expressed as a force. Any mass experiencing an increased acceleration will undergo a greater force. Any object accelerating at the same rate, but has a greater mass than another, will necessarily experience a greater force. 

Therefore, a more massive person places himself in greater jeopardy by subjecting himself to greater impacting forces whenever the motion (speed) is suddenly changed. This is what happens whenever people experience falls or collisions. The more massive the person, the greater the impactive force.

Obese people stand a much greater chance of being severly injured in falls and collisions on bikes, than other cyclists.

And yes, I am real...And so is physics! :thumbsup:

_* Thus far, you've been very lucky!_


----------



## PlatyPius

Zeet said:


> Sir, only the facts are real. The actual physical fact of the matter is that mass times acceleration is expressed as a force. Any mass experiencing an increased acceleration will undergo a greater force. Any object accelerating at the same rate, but has a greater mass than another, will necessarily experience a greater force.
> 
> Therefore, a more massive person places himself in greater jeopardy by subjecting himself to greater impacting forces whenever the motion (speed) is suddenly changed. This is what happens whenever people experience falls or collisions. The more massive the person, the greater the impactive force.
> 
> Obese people stand a much greater chance of being severly injured in falls and collisions on bikes, than other cyclists.
> 
> And yes, I am real...And so is physics! :thumbsup:
> 
> _* Thus far, you've been very lucky!_


Luck has nothing to do with it. I know how to ride a damn bike. I don't sit passively on the saddle like a lump of grey armpit jelly like a lot of people. I started out as a mountain biker with a rigid-forked MTB. My current primary MTB is a 1999 Rocky Mountain Vertex with almost 15,000 miles on it. I've had three wheelsets on it in that time, none of which broke or bent; the previous ones were sold. The current wheelset is a set of Mavic CrossMax from early 2000 with +/- 5,000 miles on them. They've done a few 3-4 foot drops in their day.

It's all about balance and finesse. I have it. A lot of skinny people don't. Fat =/= lumbering and uncoordinated.

As for concerns about falls and such... I'm much more concerned about a cut on my leg not healing than I am anything else - I'm diabetic.


----------



## AJ88V

Zeet said:


> Sir, only the facts are real.


Hey, Zeet, I didn't mean to dis' you earlier. I only quoted Opus51569 because I thought it (along with some others) was an excellent take on it. Just take some of these responses like your parents trying to teach you how to be a nice person.

But chances are, if I saw a big fat guy looking to blow $5K+ on a bike clearly out of his class, I'd find it pretty funny too and would likely tell somebody pretty much like you did.

Losing weight is really hard for some of us. Buying a bike is much easier, and if you're a wealthy person, especially a competitive one who needs to have the best toys in the one-upmanship game, then buying the lightest, fastest bike is (almost) logical. It certainly is easier than the discipline and hard work of losing 30-50 lbs.

We should only hope that this individual loses a ton of weight while he puts that bike to good use. That's the kind, public way to look at it (even if we might secretly find it pretty amusing to see a whale riding a toothpick! ).


----------



## Zeet

AJ88V said:


> Hey, Zeet, I didn't mean to dis' you earlier. I only quoted Opus51569 because I thought it (along with some others) was an excellent take on it. Just take some of these responses like your parents trying to teach you how to be a nice person.
> 
> But chances are, if I saw a big fat guy looking to blow $5K+ on a bike clearly out of his class, I'd find it pretty funny too and would likely tell somebody pretty much like you did.
> 
> Losing weight is really hard for some of us. Buying a bike is much easier, and if you're a wealthy person, especially a competitive one who needs to have the best toys in the one-upmanship game, then buying the lightest, fastest bike is (almost) logical. It certainly is easier than the discipline and hard work of losing 30-50 lbs.
> 
> We should only hope that this individual loses a ton of weight while he puts that bike to good use. That's the kind, public way to look at it (even if we might secretly find it pretty amusing to see a whale riding a toothpick! ).




I think you're beginning to come in loud and clear....I'm slowly getting the message.

Thanks AJ!


----------



## Camilo

Zeet said:


> Sir, only the facts are real. The actual physical fact of the matter is that mass times acceleration is expressed as a force. Any mass experiencing an increased acceleration will undergo a greater force. Any object accelerating at the same rate, but has a greater mass than another, will necessarily experience a greater force.
> 
> Therefore, a more massive person places himself in greater jeopardy by subjecting himself to greater impacting forces whenever the motion (speed) is suddenly changed. This is what happens whenever people experience falls or collisions. The more massive the person, the greater the impactive force.
> 
> Obese people stand a much greater chance of being severly injured in falls and collisions on bikes, than other cyclists.
> 
> And yes, I am real...And so is physics! :thumbsup:
> 
> _* Thus far, you've been very lucky!_


Good god. It doesn't end!


----------



## duffyanneal

I one day strive to be like the OP, but at this point in my life I have too much going on to be concerned with what total strangers are doing with theirs. 

If the guy wanted the lightest bike on the planet and he's built like Fat [email protected] more power to him. It's his money and his body. Sometimes the best lessons in life are ones that you learn yourself.


----------



## Salsa_Lover

Hey Zeet, You convinced me fully.

From tomorrow on, I want to hire you as my personal spending advisor, I will not buy anything, bike related or other, before submiting it to your scrutiny and only proceed after you have assesed the degree of my stupidity.

:thumbsup: :lol: rrr:

PS. I'm not fat


----------



## .je

View attachment 278055


----------



## 9W9W

*Hahaha.* Zeet, I noticed you joined in March '13. 

Zeet is just so confused right now. Here he was, armed with a Cool Starry Bra... he punches it in, imagining the flow of kudos coming his way and BAM!... sh*t goes south real quick. 

Zeet, as a relative newb myself, I can tell you that whatever the topic, whatever the question, you need to expect the following:

-uber-objective analysis on a level not yet witnessed by you personally; ever. I've come to learn that roadies are an extremely analytical, five ways to Sunday bunch. It would take a dozen to discuss how to even begin screwing in a bulb. G'head, I dare you to ask PJ an opened ended frame sizing question over in the beginners forum. 

-You gotta shake it off buddy! Tuck and roll; tuck and roll! It will get better. You will acclimate.


----------



## Zeet

9W9W said:


> *Hahaha.* Zeet, I noticed you joined in March '13.
> 
> Zeet is just so confused right now. Here he was, armed with a Cool Starry Bra... he punches it in, imagining the flow of kudos coming his way and BAM!... sh*t goes south real quick.
> 
> Zeet, as a relative newb myself, I can tell you that whatever the topic, whatever the question, you need to expect the following:
> 
> -uber-objective analysis on a level not yet witnessed by you personally; ever. I've come to learn that roadies are an extremely analytical, five ways to Sunday bunch. It would take a dozen to discuss how to even begin screwing in a bulb. G'head, I dare you to ask PJ an opened ended frame sizing question over in the beginners forum.
> 
> -You gotta shake it off buddy! Tuck and roll; tuck and roll! It will get better. You will acclimate.



That was very reassuring, 9W9W...

I really needed to hear that! 

Thanks! :thumbsup:


----------



## bballr4567

I get what you are saying for the most part. 

The guy wants the absolute fastest bike for his money but doesnt account in that he is the engine and the engine makes the bike go faster.

If the guys goal was to loose weight than maybe he should of been asking about comfortable and strong because we all know if something isnt right with the bike you just wont ride it and a racing inspired bike is certainly not the most comfortable for a *beginner* that is overweight. It took me 3 miles to realize that a new saddle was not for me and that was the end of that ride.


----------



## Retro Grouch

If the saleman was on the ball he would have also tried to sell the guy a pair of Oalkey Livestong Jawbones and a XXXL KoM jersey. 

It's all about comission, baby!

Let the big guy rides what he wants to, it's not hurting anyone.


----------



## Dave Cutter

Zeet said:


> .... Obese people stand a much greater chance of being severly injured in falls and collisions on bikes, than other cyclists.
> 
> And yes, I am real...And so is physics!


*Zeet*... you make several very good and accurate points. As a former obese person I know you're correct about much of what you've posted. 

But you seem to not understand that over-eating is a bit of an addiction. Like alcoholics, or other drug addicts.... the obese aren't *or shouldn't be* expected to act completely rational. I mean think about it... what sane person eats themselves into such a condition. 

Would you have had the same thoughts about a trim cyclists that had a hint of beer about him buying a bicycle? Should salesmen sell bicycles *or cars* to alcoholics? 

Do we resort to background checks and doctor permission statements to buy a bicycle?!?! 



PlatyPius said:


> Are you for real?
> I can ride a bike just fine without falling over. I'm fat, not retarded.


I feel your pride.... and your pain. *Although I did get to the point where my bicycle couldn't handle my weight.* It broke my heart! And.... it was the best thing to happen to me. I announced I was on a diet... with no plans greater than that. I was too embarrassed to tell anyone why at first.

Being fat didn't stop my joy when cycling. *Zeet* should understand that being fat doesn't mean you don't or can't enjoy life. Even as a fat man... I loved cycling. But to be honest.... cycling is even better... at a normal (ideal) weight. 

Bicycles do have weight limits! And... being heavy has MANY risks. I don't know or understand why we don't see more... "heavy duty"... bicycles. My brother is now struggling with health problems due to his weight... and he recently asked me about cycling. 

It was hard to politely, gently, point out he would need a special made bicycle not available in local stores. Or at the very least... I could help him select a good mtn bike.

I see other old men like myself while out riding the bicycle paths. Many are very overweight... trying their best to pedal their arres off. When I get the chance (which is RARE) I share with them that it can be done. We all decide what we want to weigh... _generally about three times a day_.


----------



## mikerp

Dave Cutter said:


> We all decide what we want to weigh... _generally about three times a day_.


Isn't that the truth.
Cycling is a great motivator.


----------



## QED

9W9W said:


> *Hahaha.* Zeet, I noticed you joined in March '13.
> 
> Zeet is just so confused right now. Here he was, armed with a Cool Starry Bra... he punches it in, imagining the flow of kudos coming his way and BAM!... sh*t goes south real quick.
> 
> Zeet, as a relative newb myself, I can tell you that whatever the topic, whatever the question, you need to expect the following:
> 
> -uber-objective analysis on a level not yet witnessed by you personally; ever. I've come to learn that roadies are an extremely analytical, five ways to Sunday bunch. It would take a dozen to discuss how to even begin screwing in a bulb. G'head, I dare you to ask PJ an opened ended frame sizing question over in the beginners forum.
> 
> -You gotta shake it off buddy! Tuck and roll; tuck and roll! It will get better. You will acclimate.


Ask them how much air should be in your tires...go ahead...ask that question in general. Or ask the best way to clean a chain . 

Or you can do what I did...I stayed in the lounge with my newb questions. I am still a newb, but they tolerate me for some reason. And once they understand that I am actually looking for real suggestions not crazy 8% body fat questions...questions that a new cyclist would have like the best way to clean my chain...they give absolutely the best advice. Lots of guys with lots of years experience. Just ask the question and then sit back and let them talk/argue/complain and they will honestly help you, with cycling or life. You have to sift through their silly humor, and then...voila, you know your answers. They are teh awesome!


----------



## Bevo

As much as I hope the guy is buying the bike because he met a goal I also see the other side, the Craiglist ad.

2013 Carbon Road Bike
Top of the line used twice, 50% off.

I have picked up some great deals this way, bought a 2 year old treadmill that was 75% of the original cost and still had protective plastic on the belt. Bought my boss a Bow Flex that was not even assembled (he told his wife he used it) for $200..

Lots of deals like this, hope the guy rides but if not......


----------



## Kalel

He is stupid for buying a light carbon bike because he is obese? The ops thought process is a bit snobby and narrow minded like a child. He does not credit the obese person for taking the intiative to do something about his weight, but would rather criticize him because he is an obese guy that wants a light bike. 

Maybe the person did not understand that some carbon frames may have a weight limit? Maybe the person is just getting into cycling. Seems like it is the salesman's responsibility to inform him of the weight limit. Regardless there will be a time when the OP gets it. 

So tell me OP if you catch some debilitating disease like cancer for example are you going to let that stop you from trying to buy the road bike you want? FYI life has a way of humbling everyone sooner or later...


----------



## Charlie the Unicorn

Of the 4 cycling forums I frequent this has to be the most self-righteous and opinionated (and nastiest). There has to be some reason I'm here though. At least it explains why I waited so long to actually sign up.

On the other hand I'll mention I've ridden w/ a few people who were rather fat who could put together back to back centuries at a good pace with no issue, without the impact from running and other sports, you never can tell (with any certainty) how strong a rider really is.


----------



## WellUmm

My question here is why the salesman wouldn't inform the man of the dangers of exceeding the bikes weight limit. That just seems like an accident waiting to happen. If I was the salesman, commission or not, I would steer the guy more towards something that can handle his weight. I wouldn't want his possible injury on my hands.

Kudos to the guy for wanting to lose weight though. However, this may be an odd thought, but wouldn't the guy lose more weight on a 23 lb lower end bike rather than a 15 lb race bike?


----------



## PlatyPius

WellUmm said:


> However, this may be an odd thought, but wouldn't the guy lose more weight on a 23 lb lower end bike rather than a 15 lb race bike?


Not if he doesn't ride it.
Do you think that a fat person feels the weight of a heavier bike less than a skinny person does? Believe me...we feel it more. I'd much rather ride the lightest bike I safely can. This whole thing of putting fat people on low-end heavy bikes annoys the hell out of me. How about a steel frame with Sram Red? Or do us "fatties" just not deserve good components? Maybe we're just too stupid to know the difference.


----------



## regnaD kciN

PlatyPius said:


> Or do us "fatties" just not deserve good components? Maybe we're just too stupid to know the difference.


Nope, only "used mountain bikes" for us, until we've proven ourselves worthy of riding on the same roads as our betters!

On a more serious note: as someone who, while lighter than I was a year ago, am still pretty heavy, but, now that I've gotten back into cycling, am thinking of getting something newer than a bike built in the early 1990s, I have to ask: is there a generally-recognized weight limit for mid-level (not exotic racing machine) carbon-fiber bikes from Specialized, Giant, Trek, etc.? Or does each manufacturer have a different guideline, and where might I find it? Is there a weight level at which one should forget about CF, and stick with aluminum or even steel?


----------



## Zeet

regnaD kciN said:


> Nope, only "used mountain bikes" for us, until we've proven ourselves worthy of riding on the same roads as our betters!
> 
> On a more serious note: as someone who, while lighter than I was a year ago, am still pretty heavy, but, now that I've gotten back into cycling, am thinking of getting something newer than a bike built in the early 1990s, I have to ask: is there a generally-recognized weight limit for mid-level (not exotic racing machine) carbon-fiber bikes from Specialized, Giant, Trek, etc.? Or does each manufacturer have a different guideline, and where might I find it? Is there a weight level at which one should forget about CF, and stick with aluminum or even steel?


Refer to post #7...


----------



## PlatyPius

regnaD kciN said:


> Nope, only "used mountain bikes" for us, until we've proven ourselves worthy of riding on the same roads as our betters!
> 
> On a more serious note: as someone who, while lighter than I was a year ago, am still pretty heavy, but, now that I've gotten back into cycling, am thinking of getting something newer than a bike built in the early 1990s, I have to ask: is there a generally-recognized weight limit for mid-level (not exotic racing machine) carbon-fiber bikes from Specialized, Giant, Trek, etc.? Or does each manufacturer have a different guideline, and where might I find it? Is there a weight level at which one should forget about CF, and stick with aluminum or even steel?


Depends on the manufacturer. Special Edward has a low weight limit while TIME told me 300 lbs was fine. I had a Scott CR1 and had no problems.


----------



## Salsa_Lover

regnaD kciN said:


> Nope, only "used mountain bikes" for us, until we've proven ourselves worthy of riding on the same roads as our betters!
> 
> On a more serious note: as someone who, while lighter than I was a year ago, am still pretty heavy, but, now that I've gotten back into cycling, am thinking of getting something newer than a bike built in the early 1990s, I have to ask: is there a generally-recognized weight limit for mid-level (not exotic racing machine) carbon-fiber bikes from Specialized, Giant, Trek, etc.? Or does each manufacturer have a different guideline, and where might I find it? Is there a weight level at which one should forget about CF, and stick with aluminum or even steel?


I think there is still a misconception about Carbon ( the material ) fragility.

Carbon tubing is a composite of carbon fibers and resins that can be designed to be super light or super strong.

Even stronger than Steel or Aluminum.

The only problem with Carbon is the way it handles an strong impact or a heavy load.

While Steel would bend, and aluminium would snap, The carbon fibers weaving inside the resin will yield and then return to their original layout, depending on the direction of the waving.

Some of those fibers could have cracked, rendering the material weaker but unfortunately that is not easy to see as it is inside the resin tubing. A repetitive stress on this fragilized area could lead to a catastrophic failure.

But alas, to be able to crack those fibers you have maybe to apply a strong force that probably would have broken the Steel or Aluminum Frame anyway.

I think most mid-level carbon frames are strong enough for a "fatty" within a normal range, like Platy says probably some 200-300 lbs.

the problem lies more IMHO on the components, super light components, like very slender superlight stems with titanium bolts, or pedals with titanium spindles, or wheels with superlight rims, tiny hubs and 16 spokes etc. ( I would even venture to say 11 speed drivetrains )

There is where is more a probability of failure and injure for a fatty.


----------



## Camilo

QED said:


> Ask them how much air should be in your tires...go ahead...ask that question in general. Or ask the best way to clean a chain .
> 
> Or you can do what I did...I stayed in the lounge with my newb questions. I am still a newb, but they tolerate me for some reason. And once they understand that I am actually looking for real suggestions not crazy 8% body fat questions...questions that a new cyclist would have like the best way to clean my chain...they give absolutely the best advice. Lots of guys with lots of years experience. Just ask the question and then sit back and let them talk/argue/complain and they will honestly help you, with cycling or life. You have to sift through their silly humor, and then...voila, you know your answers. They are teh awesome!


See, he wasn't looking for advice or suggestions. He was making the tired assertion that some poor schmuck he ran into was an idiot for selecting the bike that he (the schmuck) wanted - because it didn't fit his (OP's) sense of right and wrong. He didn't say he disagreed with the choice, he said the guy was dumb.

Far different than what you're talking about. Worthy of disagreement and discussion, imho.


----------



## Zeet

Camilo said:


> See, he wasn't looking for advice or suggestions. He was making the tired assertion that some poor schmuck he ran into was an idiot for selecting the bike that he (the schmuck) wanted - because it didn't fit his (OP's) sense of right and wrong. He didn't say he disagreed with the choice, he said the guy was dumb.
> 
> Far different than what you're talking about. Worthy of disagreement and discussion, imho.


This guy was shaped like a huge pear with legs. His belly was practically touching the top tube. Every time he mounted another expensive CF bike, both the salesman and the owner would cringe. That within itself caused the other customers to snicker. To me, it wasn't the least bit humorous. Clearly, both the salesman and the owner were more interested in personal financial profit, than the best interest of their customer. Otherwise, they would have informed the guy about how selecting the lightest CF wasn't necessarily going to make him a faster or more proficient cyclist. 

They asked him no probing questions about his cycling interest at all. They were only interested in finding a bike that "fit" him and whether his credit was sufficient for the purchase.

Snobbish or not, IMHO, if you're morbidly obese, it would behoove you to not exceed the weight capacity of any vehicle. That especially goes for bicycles and elevators. It just seems like common sense to me.


----------



## Jwiffle

regnaD kciN said:


> I have to ask: is there a generally-recognized weight limit for mid-level (not exotic racing machine) carbon-fiber bikes from Specialized, Giant, Trek, etc.? Or does each manufacturer have a different guideline, and where might I find it? Is there a weight level at which one should forget about CF, and stick with aluminum or even steel?


Some brands do not list a weight limit on their bikes. When I worked in a shop, I know that either the Giant or Cannondale rep (it may have been both, but at least one of the two) told me there was no weight limit. So the 350 lb person can ride it--he may want to put stronger wheels than stock depending on the model, but otherwise, he'd be good to go.

If the overweight customer's reasoning for buying a high-end lightweight bike was to go faster, then, yeah, I can still having a little snicker. But there are a lot of reasons he could have for buying it that would not warrant any snickering. In many ways, a higher end bike is MORE important for a heavy person than a featherweight. The higher quality components will hold up to his weight better- the crank will be stiffer, bars and stems stronger, the brakes will be more effective, on and on. Yeah, to get the stronger stuff at the low weight costs a chunk of change, but if he can afford it, he should get it.

(I'm also one who disagrees with the old cliche that newbies should start out on cheap bikes--many good reasons for them to start with a nice bike, too. But that would be for another thread).


----------



## Zeet

Jwiffle said:


> Some brands do not list a weight limit on their bikes. When I worked in a shop, I know that either the Giant or Cannondale rep (it may have been both, but at least one of the two) told me there was *no weight limit.* So the 350 lb person can ride it--he may want to put stronger wheels than stock depending on the model, but otherwise, he'd be good to go.
> 
> If the overweight customer's reasoning for buying a high-end lightweight bike was to go faster, then, yeah, I can still having a little snicker. But there are a lot of reasons he could have for buying it that would not warrant any snickering. In many ways, a higher end bike is MORE important for a heavy person than a featherweight. The higher quality components will hold up to his weight better- the crank will be stiffer, bars and stems stronger, the brakes will be more effective, on and on. Yeah, to get the stronger stuff at the low weight costs a chunk of change, but if he can afford it, he should get it.
> 
> (I'm also one who disagrees with the old cliche that newbies should start out on cheap bikes--many good reasons for them to start with a nice bike, too. But that would be for another thread).


Every bicycle has a physical weight limit. It may not be a formally stated "weight limit" in print, but every solid bicycle that has both mass and structure, also has a weight limit.

Even a diamond has a weight (pressure) limit...

Nobody should care if some random guy wants to spend a ton of cash on whatever his heart desires, for whatever reason, as long as it doesn't break the law, or present harm to people. The obese guy is another fellow human being. We should all be concerned about the safety of others, as well as ourselves.


----------



## ssio

regnaD kciN said:


> I have to ask: is there a generally-recognized weight limit for mid-level (not exotic racing machine) carbon-fiber bikes from Specialized, Giant, Trek, etc.? Or does each manufacturer have a different guideline, and where might I find it?


Specialized have very detailed information on this, which many people don't know about.. as it's titled "bicycle owner's manual, appendix A supplement":

http://service.specialized.com/collateral/ownersguide/new/assets/pdf/2013-Bicycle-Owner-s-Manual-Appendix.pdf


----------



## Ventruck

Zeet said:


> That was very reassuring, 9W9W...
> 
> I really needed to hear that!
> 
> Thanks! :thumbsup:


lol @ your concerns for pick-me-up's and reassurance.

You're hell bent over what someone else does with their money, and trying to educate this forum about fat people. I mean really.


----------



## Zeet

Ventruck said:


> lol @ your concerns for pick-me-up's and reassurance.
> 
> You're hell bent over what someone else does with their money, and trying to educate this forum about fat people. I mean really.


Like I've already stated, it's not so much what they're doing with their money. The point is that it seems so counter-productive for all parties concerned. Both the salesman and the owner should have felt the responsibility to advise and guide this guy in an appropriately professional manner. Since he exceeded the weight limit of the CF bicycle, he should have been immediately informed of such a limitation. He also should have been reminded of the fact that the speed of the bike has more to do with the combined weight of the bicycle and rider, along with the overall strength of the rider. Losing weight as a prerequisite to cycling in order to satisfy the weight limit specifications, would have been a great start to this purchase.

In the beginning, I was just merely sharing an experience with fellow RBR members. It was never intended to be a moral lesson about the deleterious effects of obesity as it relates to cycling. _I mean, not really!_


----------



## Salsa_Lover

Hey Zeet, no need to apologise that much 

Seems to me you are a veteran on other forums, right?

The thing is, you are new here, and started with the wrong foot, by posting a controversial topic in a condescending way and an mildly insulting title,

Had you been a veteran and/or posted this in the Lounge, your message would not have been so bad received.

Keep in mind this is not weight weenies, this is a forum mostly populated by middle aged Clydes , so you hit some nerves

Keep posting though, jokes apart you are very welcome here.


----------



## deepakvrao

Dave Cutter said:


> *Zeet*... you make several very good and accurate points. As a former obese person I know you're correct about much of what you've posted.
> 
> But you seem to not understand that over-eating is a bit of an addiction. Like alcoholics, or other drug addicts.... the obese aren't *or shouldn't be* expected to act completely rational. I mean think about it... what sane person eats themselves into such a condition.
> 
> Would you have had the same thoughts about a trim cyclists that had a hint of beer about him buying a bicycle? Should salesmen sell bicycles *or cars* to alcoholics?
> 
> Do we resort to background checks and doctor permission statements to buy a bicycle?!?!
> 
> 
> 
> I feel your pride.... and your pain. *Although I did get to the point where my bicycle couldn't handle my weight.* It broke my heart! And.... it was the best thing to happen to me. I announced I was on a diet... with no plans greater than that. I was too embarrassed to tell anyone why at first.
> 
> Being fat didn't stop my joy when cycling. *Zeet* should understand that being fat doesn't mean you don't or can't enjoy life. Even as a fat man... I loved cycling. But to be honest.... cycling is even better... at a normal (ideal) weight.
> 
> Bicycles do have weight limits! And... being heavy has MANY risks. I don't know or understand why we don't see more... "heavy duty"... bicycles. My brother is now struggling with health problems due to his weight... and he recently asked me about cycling.
> 
> It was hard to politely, gently, point out he would need a special made bicycle not available in local stores. Or at the very least... I could help him select a good mtn bike.
> 
> I see other old men like myself while out riding the bicycle paths. Many are very overweight... trying their best to pedal their arres off. When I get the chance (which is RARE) I share with them that it can be done. We all decide what we want to weigh... _generally about three times a day_.


Nicely said.


----------

