# Broken Drive side dropout on EP



## jaydg (Nov 14, 2007)

I ripped my dropout , the rear derailleur got sucked into the wheel after forcing my way up on an unexpected climb . I forced my way up with really heavy gearing . 

Anyways , my drive side dropout is torn and rear derailleur mangled. Can it be welded back or built up on ? I have seen pics on the web but these are repairs steel frames . Will my seat stay or chain stay melt if i have the dropout welded?

I live very far away from Italy or Calfee . So am hoping for options aside from sending my frame there .

Any of you know of a sound solution to the problem ?

Thanks
:cryin:


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## Peter P. (Dec 30, 2006)

What's an "EP"? It's not clear from your post what kind of frame you have.

A photo here would be worth "a thousand words".

P.S. I don't care how big a gear you tried to muscle up the climb; that's not what caused your mishap.


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## mapeiboy (Oct 31, 2007)

He has a Colnage EP frame .


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## jaydg (Nov 14, 2007)

Peter P. said:


> What's an "EP"? It's not clear from your post what kind of frame you have.
> 
> A photo here would be worth "a thousand words".
> 
> P.S. I don't care how big a gear you tried to muscle up the climb; that's not what caused your mishap.


EP is for " extreme power " . Its the model Colnago made before the EPS . I realize you don't have to care on what caused my problem . I am definitely not bragging about muscling up a hill or things like that . I am looking here in the forum for insight , my predicament now on having a broken frame sucks . I will try to post a picture later .


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## Maybeck (Sep 30, 2004)

These guys repaired my broken EC seat-stay:

Ruckus Components - Custom carbon fiber bike bicycle parts made in Portland Oregon.

FWIW, shifting into a big/big combo with too short a chain is probably what happened. But you can figure that out later.


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## jaydg (Nov 14, 2007)

@Maybeck

Thanks, for the info . I am based outside the US , so I am trying to figure out a local fix . I broke the metal part of the dropout . I am hoping the local frame building guru can weld it back together again . The carbon parts of the frame though is close to the crack , I am hoping it doesn't melt or something . 

that big big combo is a possibility , I have seen that happen on a friend's mt bike . 

After thinking more about how I cracked my frame yesterday , I made it past the climb when I reached the top , I shifted to the 39 to get off the heavy gearing . Thats when my wheel locked and I skidded a bit . I am thinking maybe the chain dropped and got sucked in between the cog and the spokes of the wheel, and it yanked the rear derailleur in . I had to take out the cogs from the wheel to free the chain when I was taking apart my bike this morning .

Oh well , whatever happened has happened . I just hope I can still fix the frame .


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## jaydg (Nov 14, 2007)

I forgot the picture


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## Sablotny (Aug 15, 2002)

Connection to the seat stay is a bolt - that's the easy part. Connection to chainstay is a glued lug - that's the tough part. Worth sending this pic to Calfee... or Colnago Italy. If you haven't seen my ranty post on the board already, I had a similar incident and have been waiting over 6 months for a replacement derailleur hanger. (Hey - yours looks like a fit!) Hopefully you could get a new dropout faster than that.


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## Maybeck (Sep 30, 2004)

jaydg said:


> @Maybeck
> 
> Thanks, for the info . I am based outside the US , so I am trying to figure out a local fix . .


Maybe posting your location would make sense then. If you are near Italy, there's always Colnago. If you are close to the UK, Maestro would probably be a good man to talk to. If you are close to Belgium any petrol station can probably fix you up then


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## JLane (Jan 27, 2002)

A number of years ago a friend of mine had a similar issue with a carbon fiber Trek. In that case the dropout was glued in via both the chain and seatstay. The frameset went back to Trek and I'm told with gentle heating the glue softens and Trek is able to remove the dropout and replace with a new one.
There is a Trek 5200 with one painted and one unpainted dropout running around to this day.
I don't see any reason why something like that couldn't be done here - Replace the dropout, don't try to fix the existing dropout by having someone take a welding torch to it.


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## jaydg (Nov 14, 2007)

Maybeck said:


> Maybe posting your location would make sense then. If you are near Italy, there's always Colnago. If you are close to the UK, Maestro would probably be a good man to talk to. If you are close to Belgium any petrol station can probably fix you up then


I am in the Philippines , Asia . Far far away from Europe or Calfee . Its ironic that after breaking it last saturday , I lost the urge for a new bike ( have been eyeing a zullo inqubo ) . I just want that EP fixed ! 

My last resort novacycles for new socket dropouts ,and the guys that fix golf clubs to glue it !


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## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

The dropout is aluminum, and unlikely to be repairable by a local welder. I think Italy may be your only option. Had you broken the carbon seat or chainstay instead, that is easier to repair.


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## icsloppl (Aug 25, 2009)

1. Obtain a replacement dropout from Colnago or Colnago Distributer (the hard part).

2. Ship the dropout and the frame to Ruckus. they can fix it. It will cost you ~ $40 each way by sea, which should be ok if you have a hard-shell case.


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## jaydg (Nov 14, 2007)

icsloppl said:


> 1. Obtain a replacement dropout from Colnago or Colnago Distributer (the hard part).
> 
> 2. Ship the dropout and the frame to Ruckus. they can fix it. It will cost you ~ $40 each way by sea, which should be ok if you have a hard-shell case.


Thats the most ideal scenario , a replacement dropout from Colnago . Ruckus has gotten back to me , if I send it to them they will CNC a new dropout . I will be going to the US december , so if no local solutions for me come up until then , then I will send my frame to Ruckus when am in the US .

I have contacted Colnago already , they said coordinate with my country distributor whom I am friends with . Let's see how long it would take for the part to be available . 

At least , i have options .


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## jaydg (Nov 14, 2007)

Colnago replies to email , but the only advice I got was coordinate with your local dealer . They wont sell me a dropout but can only source a hanger . 

I decided to be more pro active with the situation and had the broken dropout extracted by a local carbon specialist . From there I reverse engineered the broken drop out and had one milled from a block of T6 alluminum .

The original dropout is probably weaker than the replacement since there are lightening ridges . The replacement one is 11 grams heavier than the original. I am excited to move into phase 2 of my fix !


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## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

jaydg said:


> Colnago replies to email , but the only advice I got was coordinate with your local dealer . They wont sell me a dropout but can only source a hanger .
> 
> I decided to be more pro active with the situation and had the broken dropout extracted by a local carbon specialist . From there I reverse engineered the broken drop out and had one milled from a block of T6 alluminum .
> 
> The original dropout is probably weaker than the replacement since there are lightening ridges . The replacement one is 11 grams heavier than the original. I am excited to move into phase 2 of my fix !


Incredible!! I can't believe you had that milled by some local!!! Looks well made and like it would fit but my concern would be attaining perfect alignment. I'm no expert on this stuff but I would think a millimeter deviation could have a big effect at the rim. 

Still, good job and good luck. Keep us informed!


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## jaydg (Nov 14, 2007)

Ride-Fly said:


> Incredible!! I can't believe you had that milled by some local!!! Looks well made and like it would fit but my concern would be attaining perfect alignment. I'm no expert on this stuff but I would think a millimeter deviation could have a big effect at the rim.
> 
> Still, good job and good luck. Keep us informed!


Thanks ! I think the cloning of the dropout is the most difficult step of the fix !

I am not an expert either , but the situation is a learning experience . it de mystifies the frame a bit .

With regards to alignment , or aligning the rear wheel I am thinking it shouldn't be that complex an operation .

My other bike an Oval Titan , has horizontal drop outs and the wheel has a tendency to shift towards the non drive side of the chain stays if the Qr's are not clamped on really tight . I normally correct this by re mounting the wheel and visually aligning with the seat stay and chainstay . When it is re centered with the seat tube , the bike is aligned enough or doesn't seem to wander . 

With the next stage of my fix . I plan to put a rear wheel in , while the epoxy or adhesives is soft . I will make sure the wheel is centered with the seat tube and caliper the distances between the rim and the chain stays on both sides making sure they are equal . Hopefully , that ought to make sure the wheel is straight . After it sets and cures , hopefully my EP will be straight and stronger than before .


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## Sablotny (Aug 15, 2002)

Holy &*&^%# that is cool. Did you measure and draw up the dropout in CAD, Inventor or some such program? Local CAM contractor do the work? That's the kind of thing I dream about doing... but never do.

Also impressed you were able to extract the original dropout & lug so cleanly. Did the carbon guy heat up the joint to soften the adhesive?


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## jaydg (Nov 14, 2007)

Sablotny said:


> Holy &*&^%# that is cool. Did you measure and draw up the dropout in CAD, Inventor or some such program? Local CAM contractor do the work? That's the kind of thing I dream about doing... but never do.
> 
> Also impressed you were able to extract the original dropout & lug so cleanly. Did the carbon guy heat up the joint to soften the adhesive?


They did the dropout part by hand using caliper and micrometer , the part with the socket lug was done via computerized CNC , since it had a cant of some sorts . they even checkered the part . I was fortunate enough that my friend was buddies to this guy who has a high tech machine shop , they devoted a machine to my part for a day ! The skills of these guys are pretty good they can make the propellers of a turbocharger , each blade has a certain pitch ! I did not get to talk with the machinists or see the shop , am relying on what my friend told me . 


My first attempt in extraction was with a golf club specialist , we applied heat with a heat gun hoping to soften the adhesive and pull out the dropout , that didn't work. ( if you google the videos of how to replace carbon graphite shafts of golf clubs , the operation is very similar to what was posted earlier about a Trek ) 

Since that didn't work, I then brought it to the carbon guy . The Carbon guy is some scientist geek type , he makes carbon fiber wrapped sniper barrels for our Marines . Then some cyclist discovered him , he now is swamped with more broken frames and Zipps than guns .

According to him he will use an autoclave oven and heat the frame to the softening point of the epoxy adhesive and pull out the dropouts , to save my paint and decals he will wrap the frame in wet towels and try to focus the heat on the dropout ? 

He extracted the dropout , not that am sounding like a Colnago fan boy but apparently Colnago uses really high end epoxy for aerospace or engine block grade . His reaction was son of a ***** !The frame was in the autoclave for three hours ! He said the taiwan frames like Giant and Specialized the heatgun would work and it would be a 5 min operation ( i guess my first attempt with the golf club specialist would work with cheaply glued frames ) . 

Although , looking at the cracked dropout . I think the original dropout was too flimsy or thin , the hanger ironically is too robust . It's the hanger which should have given first before the dropout .

When I finish the fix , will let you guys know how it turns out . :idea:


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

It is not a secret that Colnago employed the highest quality carbon, resins, epoxys and paint in the industry, and I think it is still the case.


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## samh (May 5, 2004)

*ep dropout broken*

The local quality& service is better than Colnago! 

"I decided to be more pro active with the situation and had the broken dropout extracted by a local carbon specialist . From there I reverse engineered the broken drop out and had one milled from a block of T6 alluminum .

The original dropout is probably weaker than the replacement since there are lightening ridges . The replacement one is 11 grams heavier than the original. I am excited to move into phase 2 of my fix !
[/QUOTE]


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## samh (May 5, 2004)

*Poor colnago quality*

Terrible Colnago service.



jaydg said:


> Colnago replies to email , but the only advice I got was coordinate with your local dealer . They wont sell me a dropout but can only source a hanger .


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

The expectations of some people about "service" are way distorted.

Colnago and many other small operations, build the frames and then distribute them through distributors or representatives world wide who would deal with the final customer, they will not deal directly with you, you should address yourself to your retailer. 

more, if a guy in Philipines or Timbuk2 broke the frame dropout, this is not covered by any warranty nor Colnago has to do anything about, they could repair it if the frame is sent to them but they will do only through an autorized distributor.

If you wish to repair it yourself this is also not covered by any kind of warranty or service contract.
This is not just something that Colnago does, most companies work in the same way.


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## jaydg (Nov 14, 2007)

I decided to go forward and try my hand at it , since the time, logistics and costs of sending the frame back to Italy and back seemed too much of a pain . Especially , after reading in another thread about waiting forever for a hanger .

They make very nice bikes , which gives me much joy in riding them . But I don't feel the love coming back . " Sorry we can't help you " or "the dealer of your country has been informed and will contact you" is not too comforting a message . 

Well , I am guilty of being impatient and initializing the fix myself, instead of patiently waiting for Colnago to figure out a solution .


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## jaydg (Nov 14, 2007)

Carbon Guy was kinda busy , and as a hobbyist it was hard to press him to work faster . He put a layer of carbon over the end where the dropout goes in , so i had my friend with a auto repair shop paint it and add a bit of body filler to smoothen out the appearance . Here are a few pics my friend sent me from the paint shop today . It looks good , cant wait to build the bike up and ride it ! Hopefully , it rides straight !


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## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Sablotny said:


> Holy &*&^%# that is cool


Darn right, very impressive! :thumbsup:


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