# Stage 15, Here we go



## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

Their approx 30 km from the base of Verbier. Break is up 4-1/2 min. Are the fuses lit on the fireworks yet?


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Cancellera in the break too

Len


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Nothing much has happened so far.


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

uzziefly said:


> Nothing much has happened so far.


If something big time doesn't happen up this last climb. I'm going to be really pissed I passed up my morning ride to watch this.


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## slowdave (Nov 29, 2005)

not yet but the matches are out


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## Snakebit (Mar 18, 2002)

uzziefly said:


> Nothing much has happened so far.


And why should it? This here is just a big ol' friendly ride across France to look at the scenery.


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## CARBON110 (Apr 17, 2002)

it's on baby! 

meat hooks are gonna be a flyn!

I hear Boonen is offering a kilo to the winner through his "Belgian connection" haw haw

Lance will hit the gas today - AC looks ready 

clearly no love between them 

The Schlecks don't seem like they can really drop Evans despite looking like they are destitute and starving thin

I continue to be amazed at the Auzzies efforts and talent - to bad he got smoked in the TTT

Tony Martin? Bradley Wiggens? where will they land?

Is Sastra even in the Tour this year? q=(^^)z

Everyone got their sniffing glue and epo ready?! 

rocknNroll baybay


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Snakebit said:


> And why should it? This here is just a big ol' friendly ride across France to look at the scenery.


We're in Switzerland today, Snake--another America Hating state full of Fascist/Communists.


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## Snakebit (Mar 18, 2002)

Marc said:


> We're in Switzerland today, Snake--another America Hating state full of Fascist/Communists.


I hope the 'Mericans are packing. :wink:

Wherever they are, them boys are just rubbernecking through this tour. Can't say I blame them, it's real purty but I thought it was a race?


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

jd3 said:


> If something big time doesn't happen up this last climb. I'm going to be really pissed I passed up my morning ride to watch this.



LOL. Me too.

I'll be climbing hills in hot winds rather than cool, early morning cyclist's delight.

Prediction: LA/AC keep other contenders in check. A few also-rans take off and some guy named Guido takes the stage.

GC remains unchanged. 

Moral of the story: sieze the moment to ride your own bike.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

Liquigas is hammering here. Will we have a 200 post thread on how they hate Basque cyclists?


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

I'm stuffed from pizza.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Cancellera has bridged to the first chase group who are closing the gap on Plank.

Len


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

uzziefly said:


> I'm stuffed from pizza.


That sounds like a good idea..


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

GAP from Plank to peleton is down to 1:21


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> LOL. Me too.
> 
> I'll be climbing hills in hot winds rather than cool, early morning cyclist's delight.
> 
> ...


10,000 respect points to whomever spots the Lounge Kit on the climb.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

There goes Contador

Len


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## Snakebit (Mar 18, 2002)

Well now, that's interesting.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

Len J said:


> There goes Contador
> 
> Len


Contador putting in tons of time, up 20 on schleck, 35 on the rest.


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## hookypro (Aug 1, 2006)

no big lance fan here but i do commend him on his effort.....but i think even he knows that COntador is on another level when accelerating in the mountains


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Armstrong couldn't go.

Sastre just bridged to the Armstrong group

Lne


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Len J said:


> There goes Contador
> 
> Len



Are you happy now?


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Wiggins and evans and sastre with the rmstrong group

Contador still pulling away 30 on scheck 40 on LA

len


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Not happy just expected.


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## hookypro (Aug 1, 2006)

almost looked like conti looked at lance and he said go for it....cant wait for the lance spin on this one...does he convert to dedicated super domestique


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

F Scheck attackes armstrong, LA doesn't react


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## Snakebit (Mar 18, 2002)

Len J said:


> Wiggins and evans and sastre with the rmstrong group
> 
> Contador still pulling away 30 on scheck 40 on LA
> 
> len


Youth will be served.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

Len J said:


> Wiggins and evans and sastre with the rmstrong group
> 
> Contador still pulling away 30 on scheck 40 on LA
> 
> len


I did not expect Wiggins to be there on the steeper climbs, well done by him.

If this plays out well for him, he could be 2nd on GC...


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

LA can't go.

I'm sure he won't be the super domestique nonetheless. He'll just fight for 2nd.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Armstrong has dropped everyone in his group but Loden

Schecks are pulling away from LA

Contadotr looks relaxed


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## CARBON110 (Apr 17, 2002)

AC to LA about a minute difference


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## CARBON110 (Apr 17, 2002)

TIME DIFFERENCES

AC - AS 42 seconds
AC - Sastra/FS - 104
AC - LA/AK - 125


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Armstrong 1:30 back in about 8th place

len


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

I'm disappointed honestly. Just wish Armstrong hadn't broken his collarbone so he'd be a little closer to Contador's time I'm sure.

Oh well, still a great ride nonetheless. 

Wiggins - insane!


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

How far back is Hincapie...


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## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

How old is Lance, I don't think they've said.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

Len J said:


> Armstrong 1:30 back in about 8th place
> 
> len


He will be in 2nd about 10 seconds over Wiggins, about 30-40 over Andy Schleck. Contador ahead of Lance by 1:45 or so now.

Kloden will be right there with Andy Schleck too...


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

Outstanding ride for all!

Not sure that LA could have matched that, tactics or no tactics.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Len J said:


> Armstrong 1:30 back in about 8th place
> 
> len


Phil and Paul going on and on and on about Lance, Lance, Lance... Oy! Maybe they really do get paid more every time they say his name. He got shelled.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Wiggens finished 5th about 15 seconds ahead of LA

len


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## cheddarlove (Oct 17, 2005)

Contador climbs like Lance used to climb! Standing up the whole time and "dancing on the pedals".
Lance isn't standing as much as he used too. Still, the guy is incredible! 
 Paul makes him sound like he's 90 years old!!


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

My theory now - Astana makes Contador pace Armstrong perhaps such that no one would attack but it's not too fast that Lance gets dropped. 

They probably wanna try for the 1-2-3 but it's hard .


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Henry Porter said:


> How old is Lance, I don't think they've said.


He was the one telling everyone to get off his lawn.


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## alexb618 (Aug 24, 2006)

Len J said:


> Armstrong has dropped everyone in his group but Loden


ummm

'been dropped by'


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

Alberto doesn't even have to attack from now on. Just do the ITT (and he's really good at that) and then match everyone else on Mt. Ventoux


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

rocco said:


> Phil and Paul going on and on and on about Lance, Lance, Lance... Oy! Maybe they really do get paid more every time they say his name. He got shelled.


Any chance for a ventoux penultimate confrontation is done now.

Len


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Henry Porter said:


> How old is Lance, I don't think they've said.


LMAO


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## j3fri (Dec 31, 2006)

well done to all who finish in front of lance..


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

SilasCL said:


> I did not expect Wiggins to be there on the steeper climbs, well done by him.
> 
> If this plays out well for him, he could be 2nd on GC...



I think he and Sastre with his comeback after looking bad at the bottom of the climb are the biggest surprises today. They said Wiggins has lost 12 Kilos since last year which seems amazing to me.


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2009)

I honestly don't know why everyone here has assumed from day 1 that Astan'a plan was to put Armstrong in yellow.

It has been and still is for Contador to be in yellow in PAris.

I think they want at least 2 people on the podium.

Amazing ride by Wiggins, amazing.

Contador is fun to watch when he turns it loose.

There aren't enough mountain top finishes in this race this year.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

After his losing of time to so many people today, It's hard to see how LA makes the podium now

Len


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## cheddarlove (Oct 17, 2005)

Henry Porter said:


> How old is Lance, I don't think they've said.


He's an ancient and decrepit 37.


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

I went donwstairs to watch the HD and just got back to the puter. I think we saw the Astana plan unfold today. Lance didn't even try to go with Conty. Lance said before the stage there would be attacks. He knew how it was gonna play out.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

I'm not happy (except with Wiggins' effort, good for him).


LA looked like he felt like crap from the get-go. And, either Kloden felt really good, or LA felt really bad. Good performance by Kloden and Sastre too.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

Len J said:


> After his losing of time to so many people today, It's hard to see how LA makes the podium now
> 
> Len


Still possible on the Ventoux perhaps. He might be closer to the rest today.

I'm just wondering now - Klöden rode for himself at the end.


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## moabbiker (Sep 11, 2002)

Wiggins -- the savior of Garmin.


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

Conty didn't look out of breath at all when he fired that pistol.


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

jd3 said:


> I went donwstairs to watch the HD and just got back to the puter. I think we saw the Astana plan unfold today. Lance didn't even try to go with Conty. Lance said before the stage there would be attacks. He knew how it was gonna play out.


Lance also couldn't go though as we can see.

So he didn't because he couldn't. Because sure, ok, he doesn't go with Contador. Team issue etc etc.

But he didn't go with Bradley, or Andy, or Frank. So yeah. That's the thing. He couldn't.


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## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

uzziefly said:


> I'm just wondering now - Klöden rode for himself at the end.


Only at the very, very end. He pulled Armstrong up most of the last part of the climb. I think he could have gone with Wiggins and Nibali.


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## Snakebit (Mar 18, 2002)

toomanybikes said:


> I honestly don't know why everyone here has assumed from day 1 that Astan'a plan was to put Armstrong in yellow.
> 
> It has been and still is for Contador to be in yellow in PAris.
> 
> ...


Heart is still there but the legs are gone. Friggin' legs.


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## j3fri (Dec 31, 2006)

wiggins is damn solid today... even attacked...

sastre did well to get back to the front from far down....


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

jd3 said:


> I went donwstairs to watch the HD and just got back to the puter. I think we saw the Astana plan unfold today. Lance didn't even try to go with Conty. Lance said before the stage there would be attacks. He knew how it was gonna play out.


LOL, get ready for 30 posts on Bruyneel's amazing tactics.

No crap, you attack on the finishing climbs and try to make up time. I forgot they didn't do this in the tour before '99.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

uzziefly said:


> Still possible on the Ventoux perhaps. He might be closer to the rest today.
> 
> I'm just wondering now - Klöden rode for himself at the end.


It was only a Cat 1 climb and LA lost time to several people in the Last 1K........those differences will get exagerrated on Ventoux


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## j3fri (Dec 31, 2006)

i wonder wad lance has to say after today... he will say he still have chance? because of itt?


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> I'm not happy (except with Wiggins' effort, good for him).
> 
> 
> LA looked like he felt like crap from the get-go. And, either Kloden felt really good, or LA felt really bad. Good performance by Kloden and Sastre too.


LA is 37....his performance is amazoing for his Age......he stayed with the best up until 1K or so.

The differences at this point are so small that even a small diff gets exaggerated.

I don't think he felt like crap...I think he felt like a 37 YO. 

Len


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

Simple - Contador is the best stage racer in the world! And he proved it in style.
Today, I'm glad to say, he proved that LA's mind games don't win races anymore.
Also:
Schleck - close but no cigar
Wiggins - the surprise of this Tour. Podium?
Tony Martin - a future winner.


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## Snakebit (Mar 18, 2002)

The nice part for those of us who watch is that they have to race to the end now. Flat stages too. The top 5 are so close that they all have a chance if they chase it.


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## shinsplints (Oct 24, 2007)

I say Klodie should have left Lance behind. Lance was holding him back. Astana should be looking to the future and ride for Contador.


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## cityeast (Sep 16, 2004)

I think the chances of LA coming back in 2010 (as a rider) just took a big blow today.


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

albert owen said:


> Simple -
> Today, I'm glad to say, he proved that LA's mind games don't win races anymore.
> r.


Oh you're wrong about that. The mind games played out today just like Astana have planed.


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

cityeast said:


> I think the chances of LA coming back in 2010 (as a rider) just took a big blow today.


Why? He finished 10th out of the 160+ best in the world.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

jd3 said:


> Why? He finished 10th out of the 160+ best in the world.


You really think he'll ride if he doesn't believe he can win?

It's certainly possible, especially if he has his own team, but I'm not seeing it.

len


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

shinsplints said:


> I say Klodie should have left Lance behind. Lance was holding him back. Astana should be looking to the future and ride for Contador.


What more could have Astana done for Conty today. After he attacked, he didn't need anybody's help.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

jd3 said:


> I went donwstairs to watch the HD and just got back to the puter. I think we saw the Astana plan unfold today. Lance didn't even try to go with Conty. Lance said before the stage there would be attacks. He knew how it was gonna play out.


LOL..and it was LA's plan to allow 8 other guys to beat him up the climb too?

Len


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

Len J said:


> You really think he'll ride if he doesn't believe he can win?
> 
> It's certainly possible, especially if he has his own team, but I'm not seeing it.
> 
> len


If he has his own team, and I think he will, he knows what his media attention is worth.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

Len J said:


> LA is 37....his performance is amazoing for his Age......he stayed with the best up until 1K or so.
> 
> The differences at this point are so small that even a small diff gets exaggerated.
> 
> ...


One unnoticed aspect of the race today was the slow tempo set by Lance, and then by Kloden. After Contador attacked, they set the pace while Cadel, Sastre and others bridged back up to the head group. This showed it was not a fast pace being set by them. Contador made most of his advantage in the first few km of his attack while that false tempo was being set. He made up little to no time over the last couple of km after the attacks started coming.

Excellent teamwork by Lance and Kloden.


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## jd3 (Oct 8, 2004)

Len J said:


> LOL..and it was LA's plan to allow 8 other guys to beat him up the climb too?
> 
> Len


No, it was Astana's plan to put Conty in yellow.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

j3fri said:


> i wonder wad lance has to say after today... he will say he still have chance? because of itt?


If he stays true to form....he'll continue the mind games on his competition.

He'll say he forgot to eat & bonked making everyone continue to pay attention to him.:blush2: 

We'll see.

Len


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## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

jd3 said:


> What more could have Astana done for Conty today. After he attacked, he didn't need anybody's help.


I think Kloden did the right thing - today. He probably could have stayed with Wiggins but helped Armstrong. Better for Astana in the long run. Don't think it will happen again though.


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## culdeus (May 5, 2005)

Len J said:


> If he stays true to form....he'll continue the mind games on his competition.
> 
> He'll say he forgot to eat & bonked making everyone continue to pay attention to him.:blush2:
> 
> ...


You not watching it still? He conceded the race.


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## LWP (Jun 6, 2006)

Len J said:


> If he stays true to form....he'll continue the mind games on his competition.
> 
> He'll say he forgot to eat & bonked making everyone continue to pay attention to him.:blush2:
> 
> ...


Nope. He said it was a wake-up call, congratulated the performance of those ahead of him and admitted the overall was most likely not going to happen for him now.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

culdeus said:


> You not watching it still? He conceded the race.


No...I don't have versus...what did he say?

len


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

culdeus said:


> You not watching it still? He conceded the race.


I expected either excuses or talk about how he was just being a good teammate...but it wasn't to be.

Lance owned up to reality after this stage. I give him a lot of credit for that.


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## albert owen (Jul 7, 2008)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Could be I'm just biased due to the bad taste his alleged connections to Op P. left in my mouth.


Don't Ferraris leave you with a bad taste as well?


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## iyeoh (Jan 6, 2005)

Its about time for him to realize his day is over. Made his point, now just bow out gracefully. Before he bonks like LeMond and Big Mig did.. and then just look embarrassingly aged.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

LWP said:


> Nope. He said it was a wake-up call, congratulated the performance of those ahead of him and admitted the overall was most likely not going to happen for him now.


Good for him.........

Len


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

Len J said:


> No...I don't have versus...what did he say?
> 
> len


He said that everyone was at the limit, except Contador had the extra kick, and he remembered having rides like that. He said he doesn't have the top end right now, gave himself a B- grade on the stage and said that this stage showed who was strongest, and that it wasn't him. He'll be there to help the team and play tactics if needed.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Snakebit said:


> That's kind of the way I see him as well and that seems to be born out by his earlier petulent little break with team plans. Boy can climb though. Kinda reminds one of a young Lance or that little Pirate guy.



I wonder what he'll do with the St. Bernard.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

SilasCL said:


> He said that everyone was at the limit, except Contador had the extra kick, and he remembered having rides like that. He said he doesn't have the top end right now, gave himself a B- grade on the stage and said that this stage showed who was strongest, and that it wasn't him. He'll be there to help the team and play tactics if needed.


Good for him.............shows real maturity

Len


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

SilasCL said:


> I expected either excuses or talk about how he was just being a good teammate...but it wasn't to be.
> 
> Lance owned up to reality after this stage. I give him a lot of credit for that.



I don't understand why some people find that so surprising.


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## LWP (Jun 6, 2006)

Len J said:


> Good for him.........
> 
> Len


He did manage to slip in a "I won't get the yellow but that's ok... I have 7 of them at home".


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

rocco said:


> I don't understand why some people find that so surprising.


because history is the best predictor of behavior? 

Len


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## LWP (Jun 6, 2006)

rocco said:


> I don't understand why some people find that so surprising.


Me neither.


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## Snakebit (Mar 18, 2002)

LWP said:


> Me neither.


Me neither, too.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

Whatever is said here on RBR, Alberto did climb fastest today and looks like he can probably keep out-climbing anyone in thisTour.

Personally I was hoping to see Lance defy the reality of being an aged athelete but of course, that can only happen for so long..Wasn't he already one of the oldest TDF winners the last time he won?

We all know what a determined fellow Lance is and we know he's always been an extraordinary endurance athelete..but age gets us all eventually.

I imagine when Lance is in his 70s he'll still be faster than most of us here on the RBR..right now approaching his 40s he's still competative with the best in the world and that's amazing. Great show.


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## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> I'm just wondering out loud why I find AC so annoying.


I have often thought the same about LA. I have always found him annoying. Never quite sure why.


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## lalahsghost (Aug 27, 2007)

egads. stick a fork in the tour. this is done.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> I'm just wondering out loud why I find AC so annoying.



That whole pistol shooting shtick he does over and over again is a bit much.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

OEH is sad. 

OEH is going for a bike ride.


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## Snakebit (Mar 18, 2002)

rocco said:


> That whole pistol shooting shtick he does over and over again is a bit much.


Probably just to those of us who were pulling for Lance. Unreasonably so it would seem.


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2009)

I think this is all quite funny.

I don't thik Armstrong started the Tour with the aim of winning it. He did start it with the intention of getting a lot of publicity and he has done that.

He is a businessman.

He owna at least one cycling team, will probably have another by next spring. Will probably have a pro-tour licence.

He has investments in companies that make bicycle components and he gets paid all sorts of money by companies just to wear their products.

I fully expect Contador to be the centre-piece of any team Armstrong is a part owner of in the future.

He is a master of mind games. As proving by all the chatter here.

He has kept everyone's attention on him so far, very little on Contador.

So he gets what he wants out of this, which is to make more money.

Good for him.

Now, how about Wiggins??


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## LWP (Jun 6, 2006)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> OEH is sad.
> 
> OEH is going for a bike ride.


LWP is fine. 

I'm a Lance fan but none of my surprises (good or bad) from today's stage came from Astana... nice ride Wiggins!

But I'm still going for a ride.


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2009)

I'm jealous of you guys going riding today.

No outside riding for me today.

We had 3 fires kick up between yesterday afternoon and this morning.

One of them is about 400 hectares right now.

The wind is blowing too, so they'll grow.

The valley is full of heavy smoke and ash.

So my riding today will be on rollers in the basement, I think.


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## SRV (Dec 26, 2006)

OEH said:


> Problem is, I wouldn't mind so much if he was in the position of riding for just about anyone but Cont. I don't know the guy, but my atennae tell me he's an unpleasant smarmy little weasle.


I get the same feeling, but have started to think it's because he's one of the few riders that doesn't speak English. It's easier to get a bad impression of someone when you can't understand what they're saying - voice inflections and all that.


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## turbogrover (Jan 1, 2006)

toomanybikes said:


> ......Now, how about Wiggins??


Yes! My biggest congrats go out to Bradley Wiggins! He had a great ride today!
I expected Andy Schleck to stay a little closer to Conti, but at least he limited the damage.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Fantastic performance by Contador today. I'm happy to see him in yellow. 

For Lance to finish as he did after 3 years away from the sport was quite impressive. I'm not sure he still doesn't have the legs. I think what's hurting him a bit is the fact that he's certainly carrying a bit too much upper body mass for these types of climbs. Absent that...well, you might have seen him closer to Andy Schleck today.


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## Wborgers (Oct 6, 2008)

Great stage- great show- Conti just at a different level- Kloden a good teammate- Astana podium sweep strategy on display- good for wiggins- Lance pretty humble and honest during interview- This is why I love the Tour!


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## lookrider (Dec 3, 2006)

FondriestFan said:


> Fantastic performance by Contador today. I'm happy to see him in yellow.
> 
> For Lance to finish as he did after 3 years away from the sport was quite impressive. I'm not sure he still doesn't have the legs. I think what's hurting him a bit is the fact that he's certainly carrying a bit too much upper body mass for these types of climbs. Absent that...well, you might have seen him closer to Andy Schleck today.


You think he's too heavy? I looked at his face and it seems like there's no way he can be any skinnier. Plus I think he's the lightest he's ever been for a Tour. He always talked about 74kgs previously. I heard he's down to 72 which only existed in the propaganda in his first book before.


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## erol/frost (May 30, 2004)

rocco said:


> That whole pistol shooting shtick he does over and over again is a bit much.



Same here


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

This stage delivered beyond expectations!

The Lance comeback is a fairy tale and I got caught up in it. So today, I am sad.

Contador is a force and deserves all the accolades.

I do not have a bad word for any athlete, ds, organizer today. The breakaway, the pursuit, the lieutenants, the contenders all came to ride. Those retarded fans though.... 

allez,
fc


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## cityeast (Sep 16, 2004)

Len J said:


> You really think he'll ride if he doesn't believe he can win?
> 
> It's certainly possible, especially if he has his own team, but I'm not seeing it.
> 
> len


Lance plays for keeps...he like many others top sports people regard second place as the first loser. For him, the Podium has only one place. For sure, he has done very well, and he could still possibly win, but as with all of us, age is gaining the upper hand. Contador, the Schleck brothers, etc... are all rising stars. 

I think there is a definite changing of the guard in the TdF GC. I think 2010 is already looking interesting, provided the stages are well configured.


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## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

SRV said:


> ... but have started to think it's because he's one of the few riders that doesn't speak English. It's easier to get a bad impression of someone when you can't understand what they're saying - voice inflections and all that.


I think this is very true. I also think that the Armstrong-Centric coverage on Versus tends to place Contador in a somewhat poor light.


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## sacroadie (May 16, 2009)

francois said:


> I do not have a bad word for any athlete, ds, organizer today. The breakaway, the pursuit, the lieutenants, the contenders all came to ride. Those retarded fans though....
> 
> allez,
> fc


Couldn't agree more. Great rides by everyone today. And did you see Conti give the old left-right jabs to those two idiots screaming in his ears? Good on him!


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## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

All I can say is WOW. I was deffinately routing for LA moreso than AC not because I hated AC as some do but just because LA is a legend and my age You just cant deny what happened today. Contador is not human lol. What an incredible display of dominance. 

I expected LA to be behind him but not by over 1 minute. I expected A Schleck to be right there with AC though but man did he just destroy everyone. Beyond a shadow of a doubt AC is Astana's number 1 now. I think everyone at Astana knew that all along unlike most of us at RBR/Media lol. Great tactics. Baring some kind of unfortunate mishap I think we just saw the winner of the TDF. I love the symbolic passing of the torch from LA to AC. Couldnt script it any better. :thumbsup: To AC and LA and team Astana. Its just a few more days till its official. If this kid is teachable and picks up LA's smarts to go along with his considerable ability he will win more than 7 TDF's.


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## cyclejim (Mar 31, 2004)

lookrider said:


> You think he's too heavy? I looked at his face and it seems like there's no way he can be any skinnier. Plus I think he's the lightest he's ever been for a Tour. He always talked about 74kgs previously. I heard he's down to 72 which only existed in the propaganda in his first book before.


I heard the same thing, however take a close look at his biceps and arms in general. I don't think he is lighter.


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## cyclejim (Mar 31, 2004)

It was a great stage and a great moment in history to see the former champion "pass the torch" on the road. I think LA was very humble in his post race interview and that will do a lot for the team and for cycling. Contador did not need to say a word as his legs did all the talking. For me watching Andy was also one of my favorite parts of the stage. He will win the tour someday for sure.


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## movern (Jul 19, 2009)

Great stage!!

Hats off to Saxo Bank - for finally opening the race!
They really made an effort today.
To bad it wasnt enough - Contador is untouchable


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## cheddarlove (Oct 17, 2005)

All this talk of Lance being old is so strange.
He is 2nd in the Tour De France after 10 days and some hard stages. 
He hung on with the front guys today.I'm sure some of it is age that kept him from winning but I feel we have to consider time away from the sport and his injury.
Personally, as much as I would have liked to have seen Lance win, I feel Contador deserves it more!
Lets not forget his first Tour win was via a DQ by Rasmussen and he unfairly got left out of last years Tour. 
I'm not at all looking at Lance as the old loser. Too be where he is right now is incredible and he should be proud! 
I wonder if Bruyneel said to Lance and Alberto at one point; "you two duke it out for leader and may the best man win". That is now Contador and Lance needs to try and cement 2nd with the TT and not lose vany more time in the mountains! I wish him luck!!


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Something is fishy in fishville.

LA before the Tour said he's as strong as in '02 and better than '03. Either he was talking out his @ss or he's playing possum again. 

I can _see_ Cont riding away, but taking his and the others' previous stage results into consideration, I just can't see how some of the other names rode away from him so easily today, including what appeared to be Kloden if he had wanted to.

Yet still...he is _somehow_ miraculously second in GC. 

If he truly did crack today then he's toast and out of the podium unless he finds his form.

If however (and that's a big if) he's playing a second round of possum, as he's done before...he can ride like a nice boy for Cont, not lose anymore time to others, and then let all hell break lose on Ventoux...which is what he wanted to begin with. He gets Ventoux, AC still gets his yellow and all come out smelling like roses.

Go ahead and LOL at me if you must. 

Just pondering. Cracked or no, he and all pulled out a great showing today.


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## Snakebit (Mar 18, 2002)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Something is fishy in fishville.
> 
> LA before the Tour said he's as strong as in '02 and better than '03. Either he was talking out his @ss or he's playing possum again.
> 
> ...


I thought all along that this tour was about Ventoux, Lance seems to have a thing about that mountain. I think he is going to ride for the team now but you may well be right. If he does still have the legs, Ventoux is going to be a memorable stage, a Tour classic. Wouldn't that be somethin'?


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

cheddarlove said:


> All this talk of Lance being old is so strange.
> He is 2nd in the Tour De France after 10 days and some hard stages.
> He hung on with the front guys today.I'm sure some of it is age that kept him from winning but I feel we have to consider time away from the sport and his injury.
> Personally, as much as I would have liked to have seen Lance win, I feel Contador deserves it more!
> ...


Time away from the sport is the problem? Last time Lance was away from the sport for a couple of years, he came back and won the Tour in his first full season back.

He's no longer the best, just a bit behind the best.


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## macbugs (Jul 12, 2004)

*Bingo!*



Snakebit said:


> I thought all along that this tour was about Ventoux, Lance seems to have a thing about that mountain. I think he is going to ride for the team now but you may well be right. If he does still have the legs, Ventoux is going to be a memorable stage, a Tour classic. Wouldn't that be somethin'?


I remember reading somewhere Lance said his one regret was not winning on Ventoux. Didn't he announce he was coming back after they announced the stages of the Tour last fall?
That would be something if all hell breaks loose on Ventoux. I'll be doing a century that morning so I'll have to catch the replay.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

rocco said:


> I wonder what he'll do with the St. Bernard.


I was expecting two kisses for the dog too.


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## rodster (Jun 29, 2006)

My wife asked me this morning for my prediction. I thought Cadel Evans would have been stronger. Sastre dropping early was a surprise too . . . but he did recover somewhat. Conti and the Schleck's were as I expected, I thought Lance would lose 2 minutes and come across the last of the strong guys. Other than VDV he was the last of the strong guys but he kept the gap to 1:30ish. Wiggins - wow, never in million years did I expect him to be THAT strong.

Conti wins, Lance 5th that's my prediction for Paris. The Schlecks and Wiggins 2-4.


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## Henry Porter (Jul 25, 2006)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> Something is fishy in fishville.
> 
> LA before the Tour said he's as strong as in '02 and better than '03. Either he was talking out his @ss or he's playing possum again.
> 
> ...


I agree with TMB, he was just getting the focus on him rather than Contador and things are going to plan right now.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

macbugs said:


> *I remember reading somewhere Lance said his one regret was not winning on Ventoux. * Didn't he announce he was coming back after they announced the stages of the Tour last fall?
> That would be something if all hell breaks loose on Ventoux. I'll be doing a century that morning so I'll have to catch the replay.


If I remember the quote...he has "unfinished business" on that mountain.

Again, I can see Cont riding away from him, but Evans? Granted Evans is a great rider but his performance at this year's tour has been marginal. And Sastre? He does get stronger as tours go on but again, he's not been performing well. 

The next couple of stages will be very, very telling. If LA holds his second place in GC, then I know something is up. 

If he cracks, and falls in GC... well I'll be.


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## somdoosh (Jul 21, 2008)

While it's now no longer a race for third place, I still think Lance basically has a lock on a podium spot--maybe 2nd, maybe 3rd. Even if Andy Schleck can put more time on Lance in the mountains, Lance is a much better time trialist and can probably make it up in the final TT. Whether Schleck can overtake Kloden is at this point irrelevant, since Wiggins has proven to be such a powerhouse.


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## OES (Jan 23, 2002)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> OEH is sad.
> 
> OEH is going for a bike ride.


OES is sad too. We saw today the end of a great era. Damn.

OES would go for a ride too if OES had a left knee anymore.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

*It's over? AC has to defend slim margin on 3 mtn stages.*

AC has looked awesome on 2 mtn stages where he was in good position, and times his leap well. He is a good bet to win now. But he absolutely has to defend a modest margin on each of 3 mountain stages.
Stage 16 finishes on a big downhill.
Stage 17 finishes on a relatively smaller downhill.

AC can either be in the front on each of the 3 remaining mountains, or can crack some time on everyone else on at least one of the three.

It is a tall order to defend on three mountain stages in a row, two of which are downhills, not favoring his uphill-strong style.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

OES said:


> OES is sad too. We saw today the end of a great era. Damn.
> 
> OES would go for a ride too if OES had a left knee anymore.



I know. Sniff. An eight mile hillclimb today made me feel, sniff, only a little better.  (butseemypostbelowaboutfishville).



And ride with the other knee.


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## jptaylorsg (Apr 24, 2003)

OldEndicottHiway said:


> If however (and that's a big if) he's playing a second round of possum, as he's done before...he can ride like a nice boy for Cont, not lose anymore time to others, and then let all hell break lose on Ventoux...which is what he wanted to begin with. He gets Ventoux, AC still gets his yellow and all come out smelling like roses.
> 
> Go ahead and LOL at me if you must.
> 
> Just pondering. Cracked or no, he and all pulled out a great showing today.


Lance hasn't really played possum for a whole stage of for several days before. He has always marked the GC threats up hills when he could. He has had a couple of marginal days in Tours past, but they were just that, not possum.

Playing possum for Lance has been looking spent while just barely hanging on to their wheels, not giving up chunks of time (like he did to AC and Andy Schleck).

This was a somewhat short Cat 1 climb. If he was anywhere near Tour-winning form, there's no way he drops a minute and a half on such a climb - and almost a minute to Andy Schleck.

That said, I still think he might podium, but this is far from the toughest climb at this Tour, and he didn't play possum, he got shelled. He said as much himself


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

jptaylorsg said:


> Lance hasn't really played possum for a whole stage of for several days before. He has always marked the GC threats up hills when he could. He has had a couple of marginal days in Tours past, but they were just that, not possum.
> 
> Playing possum for Lance has been looking spent while just barely hanging on to their wheels, not giving up chunks of time (like he did to AC and Andy Schleck).
> 
> ...



But I _like_ the possum theory so much better. :thumbsup:


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## Snakebitten (Jun 26, 2008)

I hate saying this but just like in boxing a fighter can get old in one fight even if he was stellar in previous. Its life. Especially at 37yo in this sport. He looked good in the previous weeks but the first real serious climb and he looked gassed. He is still 2nd in the GC so he isnt an ordinary 37yo. But he cant do it like he did in the past sadly. Its Contadors time now but I would love to see Lance go all out and win Ventoux just for his ride into the sunset. Wont happen though if today is any indication. Or just maybe he is saving a little bit of himself for just that mwhahahahaha...Na not likely ....


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

somdoosh said:


> While it's now no longer a race for third place, I still think Lance basically has a lock on a podium spot--maybe 2nd, maybe 3rd. Even if Andy Schleck can put more time on Lance in the mountains, Lance is a much better time trialist and can probably make it up in the final TT. Whether Schleck can overtake Kloden is at this point irrelevant, since Wiggins has proven to be such a powerhouse.


I think Schleck will make sure to put more than enough time in the mountains on Wiggo, Kloden and LA. He is a real climbing talent, similar to Contador.

I am still worried about Wiggins - I think his relative inexperience as a top climber may create a "bad day" for him if he blows too early. I hope I am wrong.


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## saird (Aug 19, 2008)

55x11 said:


> I am still worried about Wiggins - I think his relative inexperience as a top climber may create a "bad day" for him if he blows too early. I hope I am wrong.


If he does he'll come back and win it before cleaning up at the Olympics.


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## JohnHemlock (Jul 15, 2006)

Contador was flying up the hill, he was by me so fast I didn't even take a proper photo. He was in no difficulty whatsoever.


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## nOOky (Mar 20, 2009)

Good stage today. I think all the questions have been answered by AC's performance today. I bet a dollar Lance still wins the Leadville 100 though


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## zphogan (Jan 27, 2007)

albert owen said:


> Simple - Contador is the best stage racer in the world! And he proved it in style.
> Today, I'm glad to say, he proved that LA's mind games don't win races anymore.


Yea, Lance Jedi mind-tricked his way through all his TDF victories.


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## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

zphogan said:


> Yea, Lance Jedi mind-tricked his way through all his TDF victories.


As I always suspected  (although, perhaps that explains why Ullrich could never beat him  )


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## cheddarlove (Oct 17, 2005)

SilasCL said:


> Time away from the sport is the problem? Last time Lance was away from the sport for a couple of years, he came back and won the Tour in his first full season back.
> 
> He's no longer the best, just a bit behind the best.


Yes you're right. I wonder if he would have been in the top 5 if he hadn't gotten that woman pregnant!! oops!~ I mean if he had done his actual training in Europe instead of relying on American races to get him into racing shape. The Tour of Gila and Nevada City Crit aren't exactly the Dauphine or Amstel Gold. 
Maybe he doesn't want to admit it but perhaps he doesn't care as much as he used too. 
Seems he's has a bigger agenda in his life these days.


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## karatemom (Mar 21, 2008)

Well, he's definitely more mellow in interviews--and really, what does he have to prove? He already won 7 times.

And will someone please tell me why they think Contador is a smarmy underhanded sleazeball? He looks like my brother (only in spanish form)--I can't help but like him.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

karatemom said:


> Well, he's definitely more mellow in interviews--and really, what does he have to prove? He already won 7 times.
> 
> And will someone please tell me why they think Contador is a smarmy underhanded sleazeball? He looks like my brother (only in spanish form)--I can't help but like him.


I don't want to get this thread moved to Doping but to answer your question, there have been allegations of him being the "AC" in the Puerto blood doping scandal.


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## karatemom (Mar 21, 2008)

Well, there is that...but much like LA, so far there's been no proof.


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## OES (Jan 23, 2002)

OldEndicottHiway=And ride with the other knee.[/quote said:


> It's the only one I have left, and it's hanging by a thread.


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## il sogno (Jul 15, 2002)

karatemom said:


> Well, there is that...but much like LA, so far there's been no proof.


Well, we'll leave all that to the Doping Forum.


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2009)

Len J said:


> Any chance for a ventoux penultimate confrontation is done now.
> 
> Len


Probably not.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

toomanybikes said:


> Probably not.


Heeeeee.


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## rodster (Jun 29, 2006)

rodster said:


> My wife asked me this morning for my prediction. I thought Cadel Evans would have been stronger. Sastre dropping early was a surprise too . . . but he did recover somewhat. Conti and the Schleck's were as I expected, I thought Lance would lose 2 minutes and come across the last of the strong guys. Other than VDV he was the last of the strong guys but he kept the gap to 1:30ish. Wiggins - wow, never in million years did I expect him to be THAT strong.
> 
> Conti wins, Lance 5th that's my prediction for Paris. The Schlecks and Wiggins 2-4.


I'm sticking with my prediction . . .


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## rodster (Jun 29, 2006)

Well, Lance hung tough thru the Alps, TT and Ventoux and has made me eat my words. Damn fine ride.


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