# Stage 8



## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Very strange tactics with T-Mobile setting the pace despite having Rogers in the break.


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## Vandizzy (Jul 11, 2007)

no doubt!


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## Vandizzy (Jul 11, 2007)

todays stage is going to blow apart a lot, especially with time limits and rest day tomorrow


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

Vandizzy said:


> todays stage is going to blow apart a lot, especially with time limits and rest day tomorrow


I like this quote from yesterday's cyclingnews:

Valverde wants to drop Vino

...The Spaniard of Caisse d'Epargne is vying for the overall classification and would like to rid himself of Vinokourov before Monday's rest day.

"We would like that," said the 27 year-old to Cyclingnews on Saturday. "After yesterday, where we watched him, we would like to leave him behind." 



Doesn't seem to work that way so far, huh?


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## Vandizzy (Jul 11, 2007)

here goes the chicken! is it to early


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## Vandizzy (Jul 11, 2007)

valverde just blew off the back


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Vandizzy said:


> no doubt!


T-Mobile finally off the front. Looks like a pissing match to see who will take responsibility, pace completely turned off.


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## Vandizzy (Jul 11, 2007)

pee for enjoyment not employment
lol  



Dwayne Barry said:


> T-Mobile finally off the front. Looks like a pissing match to see who will take responsibility, pace completely turned off.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

One of three down. 

It's a long descent, but things should get very interesting now, hey?

chicken chicken chicken? I have my doubts. 

/quick coffee break

EDIT:

Wow! Over the guardrail! 

Double edit:

Nice quick bike change, but levi now has his reason not to attack.


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## Vandizzy (Jul 11, 2007)

rogers and arroyo down


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## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

Michel Wuyts called that.

Anyway, they're back up and I believe they haven't lost _much_ time.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

Gotta love the "saddle adjustment" Johan's mechanic was performing on Levi's bike!!!


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

I'm wondering Lampre's motivation to work?

Services sold or do they really believe Valjevic has some sort of GC chances?


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## Vandizzy (Jul 11, 2007)

still have to climb to tignes so lactic acid build up will be cramping some style


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*My sense ....*

on T-Mobile being on the front was that they were blocking.

the gap widened when they were on the front.

Shame about Rodgers injury.....how about arroyo going ass over teekettle and now being in the lead break!

I think the Peleton attacks on the last climb, reels in the breaks & then uses the chase 2 boys to keep the pace up. We will see who the real contenders are on the last climb.

len


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## kggb (Jul 2, 2005)

Stuart O'grady crashed and are out of the race and now michael Rogers too.


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## Vandizzy (Jul 11, 2007)

how sad rogers from leading to broken clavicle


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

Rodgers abandons! Damn.

What a roller coaster.

Len


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Len J said:


> on T-Mobile being on the front was that they were blocking.
> 
> len


Perhaps they were just setting a false tempo, certainly the pace wasn't hurting too many.


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## BikinCO (Feb 17, 2004)

*Sad*



Len J said:


> Rodgers abandons! Damn.
> 
> What a roller coaster.
> 
> Len


From leader on the road to out of the race>


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## justinb (Nov 20, 2006)

Now T-Mob gets to go back to the front, and defend the jersey.


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## BikinCO (Feb 17, 2004)

Here we go. Disco and Astana to the front!


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## Vandizzy (Jul 11, 2007)

BikinCO said:


> Here we go. Disco and Astana to the front!


oh ya peloton maybe too far behind to catch the lead group tho


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## BikinCO (Feb 17, 2004)

Mayo?


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Mayo just blew the doors off the other guys!


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## Vandizzy (Jul 11, 2007)

popo jumped out also


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## Vandizzy (Jul 11, 2007)

gotta love the tour!


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## BikinCO (Feb 17, 2004)

Popo is pulling mayo back and Astana is pulling Levi.


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## justinb (Nov 20, 2006)

GC group is 5 minutes behind Skeletor. Any chance they bring it back?


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## BikinCO (Feb 17, 2004)

Popo has popped. Moreau looks like a stud today.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

Sherwin: "And Popovych has just gone pop."


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

Dwayne Barry said:


> I'm wondering Lampre's motivation to work?
> 
> Services sold or do they really believe Valjevic has some sort of GC chances?


Ditto, no 'friggin idea why Lampre pulled for so long. That was Bennati at one point pulling.


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## FondriestFan (May 19, 2005)

Valverde, Evans, Schleck, and Contador look like the real contenders. Kash and Moreau are up there too.


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## justinb (Nov 20, 2006)

Last 5k at 12.5% is going to be sweet.


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## BikinCO (Feb 17, 2004)

justinb said:


> GC group is 5 minutes behind Skeletor. Any chance they bring it back?


Not unless he rides like he did in the final TT a couple years ago.


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## BikinCO (Feb 17, 2004)

*Well*



FondriestFan said:


> Valverde, Evans, Schleck, and Contador look like the real contenders. Kash and Moreau are up there too.


They dicked around to long and here come Vino, Kloden and Levi


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## BikinCO (Feb 17, 2004)

Contado jumps out of the Vino group!


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## BikinCO (Feb 17, 2004)

Boom, bye Vino


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

Chapeaux, Moreau. He's been doing 70% of the work with this group.


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## jahona (Aug 23, 2005)

Nice to see Mayo back up in front


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

I still can't believe they let Rasmussen go. He made them pay the price!

All hail the Chicken!


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## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

I would have to say that he was brilliant today.



Vandizzy said:


> here goes the chicken! is it to early


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## north_of_us (May 10, 2006)

Wow letting CHicken go like that, im sure hes improved his TT since letting that one get away 2 years ago. Can Mayo keep it up. Also, OLN (Versus) stop putting Levi spotlights on, nobody cares about Levi. My wifes like whos this Levi guy thats all I hear.


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## z ken (Dec 30, 2006)

the " GC " guys let chicken go b/c they know they can get time back on stage 13th and 19th, both long TT. i think Levi is looking good. stay within a minute of top GC ( Valverde ) and he has mentioned he want to peak come second week ( stage 13-16 )


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*Why?*



dr hoo said:


> I still can't believe they let Rasmussen go. He made them pay the price!
> 
> All hail the Chicken!


he is no threat for the overall. Remember his TT skills.

I thought the tactics were pretty good today with the exception of Valverde Mayo & Moreau not working together to put more time into the chase group. Levi was just hanging on and letting Vino & Kloden do the work.....he ended up giving up 20 seconds to valverde & Moreau......Mayo is a non-threat for the overall (He'll have his typical bad day in the mountains and will lose time in every TT).

Len


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

just for reference:

*Results*


1 Michael Rasmussen (Den) Rabobank 4.49.40 (34.18 km/h)
2 Iban Mayo Diez (Spa) Saunier Duval - Prodir 2.47
3 Alejandro Valverde Belmonte (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 3.12
4 Christophe Moreau (Fra) AG2r Prévoyance 3.13
5 Frank Schleck (Lux) Team CSC 
6 Cadel Evans (Aus) Predictor - Lotto 
7 Andrey Kashechkin (Kaz) Astana 
8 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 3.31
9 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 3.35
10 Carlos Sastre Candil (Spa) Team CSC 
11 Haimar Zubeldia Agirre (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 3.59
12 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 
13 Juan Jose Cobo Acebo (Spa) Saunier Duval - Prodir 
14 Manuel Beltran Martinez (Spa) Liquigas 4.13
15 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 
16 Juan Manuel Garate (Spa) Quickstep - Innergetic 4.29
17 David Arroyo Duran (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 
18 Andreas Klöden (Ger) Astana 
19 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) Astana 
20 Linus Gerdemann (Ger) T-Mobile Team 5.05
21 Tadej Valjavec (Slo) Lampre - Fondital 
22 Kim Kirchen (Lux) T-Mobile Team 5.10
23 Mikel Astarloza Chaurreau (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 5.41
24 Jens Voigt (Ger) Team CSC 5.47
25 Kanstantin Siutsou (Blr) Barloworld 
26 Michael Boogerd (Ned) Rabobank 6.32
27 Chris Horner (USA) Predictor - Lotto 
28 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Caisse d'Epargne 6.39
29 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 7.40
30 Amets Txurruka (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 8.23
31 Sylvain Chavanel (Fra) Cofidis - Le Crédit par Téléphone 
32 Alexandre Botcharov (Rus) Crédit Agricole 

*General classification after stage 8*

1 Michael Rasmussen (Den) Rabobank 35.37.42
2 Linus Gerdemann (Ger) T-Mobile Team 0.43
3 Iban Mayo Diez (Spa) Saunier Duval - Prodir 2.39
4 Alejandro Valverde Belmonte (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 2.51
5 Andrey Kashechkin (Kaz) Astana 2.52
6 Cadel Evans (Aus) Predictor - Lotto 2.53
7 Christophe Moreau (Fra) AG2r Prévoyance 3.06
8 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 3.10
9 Frank Schleck (Lux) Team CSC 3.14
10 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 3.19
11 Carlos Sastre Candil (Spa) Team CSC 3.35
12 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 3.43
13 Andreas Klöden (Ger) Astana 3.46
14 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 3.54
15 Haimar Zubeldia Agirre (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 4.00
16 Manuel Beltran Martinez (Spa) Liquigas 4.19
17 Juan Manuel Garate (Spa) Quickstep - Innergetic 4.22
18 David Arroyo Duran (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 4.51
19 Kim Kirchen (Lux) T-Mobile Team 5.02
20 Tadej Valjavec (Slo) Lampre - Fondital 5.03
21 Mikel Astarloza Chaurreau (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 5.14
22 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) Astana 5.23
</pre>


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

I've alwasys wanted Cadel to do well.

But man, that guy was such a wheelsucker today. Really killed the flow of that breakaway. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen that guy in front of a group.

fc


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Len J said:


> he is no threat for the overall. Remember his TT skills.


He might surprize you. Big day, rest day, relatively big day. He is riding well, and he might very well be able to put big time on people on a bunch of mountain stages later on. I think the odds are against him, with the 2 ITTs. But the man looked good, and he might be able to rack up huge time down the road. 

The mistake in letting him go that far away is that he must now be paid attention to, he can now force the action on every mountain stage... if he has the stones to do so that is.

What kind of lead do you think he needs to overcome the ITT problems? Can he get that? Feel free to throw out the numbers, I don't pay that close of attention. All I know is Rasmussen looked well within his zone today, and many others suffered, and there are some big mountains down the road.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

francois said:


> I've alwasys wanted Cadel to do well.
> 
> But man, that guy was such a wheelsucker today. Really killed the flow of that breakaway. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen that guy in front of a group.
> 
> fc


I think Cadel has a fear of the big bonk. Too bad if so. But face it, the smart way to play things today was to sit and keep things close while conserving energy. I think the 2nd ITT and the mountains after will be where the race is won.. though it can be lost a lot of places.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

I think the contenders may have made a big mistake letting Rasmussen get that sort of time. It's highly likely that he can gain more time on them Tuesday. 

Most of the GC guys are good TTers, but not in the same class Ullrich and Armstrong were back when Rasmussen imploded. IMHO, Kloden is the best TTer of the GC bunch, and ....

it was a mistake for Kloden to hang back with Vino. I know it's Vino's team and all, but they may have just gave the tour away.

You've got to say that it looks very good for Evans and Valverde, who are reasonably close and reasonably decent in the TT. Remember Romandie 2006?

The Pirate won a Tour, so perhaps it's time 9 years later to have another climber surprise the field.


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## RocketDog (Apr 9, 2005)

We all remember Rasmussen's spectacular mess of a TT in the 2005 tour, but remember those losses included multiple mechanicals, bike change, and crashing. He's won't be THAT bad in a TT again, and he will need to be marked in the mountains for the remainder of the Tour or he could end up in yellow.


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## kggb (Jul 2, 2005)

Sinkewitz has crashed after the etape. When riding down the mountain again, he hit a spectator. Both have been hospitalized with serious headinjuries. Why cant the spectators learn how fast the pro's ride.


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## justinb (Nov 20, 2006)

francois said:


> I've alwasys wanted Cadel to do well.
> 
> But man, that guy was such a wheelsucker *today*.
> fc


It's not necessary to qualify at which time Evans is wheel sucking. As you state, he's always wheel sucking... that said, it's racing. The goal is to get to the line first, not share even pulls*. 



*Yes, I realize that sharing even pulls can sometimes help you get to the line first.


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## djcrb9 (Nov 24, 2002)

RocketDog said:


> We all remember Rasmussen's spectacular mess of a TT in the 2005 tour, but remember those losses included multiple mechanicals, bike change, and crashing. He's won't be THAT bad in a TT again, and he will need to be marked in the mountains for the remainder of the Tour or he could end up in yellow.


To have someone like Rasmussen win the tour this year would truly be an exciting thing. His riding today was nothing short of spectacular.


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*He needs.......*



dr hoo said:


> He might surprize you. Big day, rest day, relatively big day. He is riding well, and he might very well be able to put big time on people on a bunch of mountain stages later on. I think the odds are against him, with the 2 ITTs. But the man looked good, and he might be able to rack up huge time down the road.
> 
> The mistake in letting him go that far away is that he must now be paid attention to, he can now force the action on every mountain stage... if he has the stones to do so that is.
> 
> What kind of lead do you think he needs to overcome the ITT problems? Can he get that? Feel free to throw out the numbers, I don't pay that close of attention. All I know is Rasmussen looked well within his zone today, and many others suffered, and there are some big mountains down the road.


5 to 6+ minutes, maybe more...he lost 1:16 in the prologue, a 9 + minute effort.....no way the contenders let him get that much.

as to how he looked today, he looked great, but it's only the second mountain stage and only the 8th day. Still a lot of time to go. The tour is about dosing his effort. It will be interesting to watch, but I don't think the contenders are all that worried about either him or Mayo.

Len


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## Len J (Jan 28, 2004)

*Look......*



RocketDog said:


> We all remember Rasmussen's spectacular mess of a TT in the 2005 tour, but remember those losses included multiple mechanicals, bike change, and crashing. He's won't be THAT bad in a TT again, and he will need to be marked in the mountains for the remainder of the Tour or he could end up in yellow.


how bad he did in the short prologue. Down 1:16 to the leader in a 9+ minute effort. 

He will need a lot more time than he has....the contenders won't let him get that much.

Len


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## justinb (Nov 20, 2006)

kggb said:


> Sinkewitz has crashed after the etape. When riding down the mountain again, he hit a spectator. Both have been hospitalized with serious headinjuries. Why cant the spectators learn how fast the pro's ride.


Update:
According to VN, Sinkewitz has a broken nose, and the spectator a more serious head trauma. 

Best of luck to them both.


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## botto (Jul 22, 2005)

francois said:


> I've alwasys wanted Cadel to do well.
> 
> But man, that guy was such a wheelsucker today. Really killed the flow of that breakaway. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen that guy in front of a group.
> 
> fc


He's the "Koning van de Aanklampers" as Michel Wuyts once dubbed him.

In case your Flemish isn't up to snuff, it means that he's the "King of Wheelsuckers".


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

Len J said:


> how bad he did in the short prologue. Down 1:16 to the leader in a 9+ minute effort.


Different strategy at that time, and the TT guys will be at a different level after the mountains.

As per your above comment on 6 minutes maybe more needed... I go with the "more"


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## Vandizzy (Jul 11, 2007)

the alps are going to be a whole different type of climbing look for a shake up there also


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## oarsman (Nov 6, 2005)

*But was it smart racing*



justinb said:


> It's not necessary to qualify at which time Evans is wheel sucking. As you state, he's always wheel sucking... that said, it's racing. The goal is to get to the line first, not share even pulls*.
> 
> 
> 
> *Yes, I realize that sharing even pulls can sometimes help you get to the line first.


Wheelsucking is part of racing for sure, but here, when Evans is probably the best time trialer of that breakaway group, wouldn't it have made more sense to help put time into Vino (and by extension, Kloden) while he is still hurting? I have a sneaky feeling Vino will get better and better as the Tour goes on. It was way less important to win this stage then it was to get as much time as possible on other GC contenders.


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## rogger (Aug 19, 2005)

Vandizzy said:


> the alps are going to be a whole different type of climbing look for a shake up there also


Ehh, they're like already there, dude.


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## Vandizzy (Jul 11, 2007)

lol dyslexia


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## justinb (Nov 20, 2006)

oarsman said:


> Wheelsucking is part of racing for sure, but here, when Evans is probably the best time trialer of that breakaway group, wouldn't it have made more sense to help put time into Vino (and by extension, Kloden) while he is still hurting? I have a sneaky feeling Vino will get better and better as the Tour goes on. It was way less important to win this stage then it was to get as much time as possible on other GC contenders.


Yeah, I do agree with you there. As was posted elsewhere in this forum, the tactics in that breakaway group were horrendous. Every single one of them would have benefited from putting time into Vino/Kloden/Levi/Sastre/Menchov, etc. Instead, they're racing for second in the stage.


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## ashpelham (Jan 19, 2006)

This thing with Rasmussen looked pretty real today. He seemed to take control of the race, and everyone else appeared to be taking it seriously. My opinion on Kloden and Vinokourov right now is that the injuries have sabotaged their chances, and the lack of a solid blood-doping program for the both of them means they can't win.

I don't want to take it down that road right now, but as for Valverde, Contador, and Evans, I just don't see any of them other than maybe Valverde being able to make a race of it now. Rasmussen is now the man to beat. That was the kind of uphill ride that I haven't seen since Landis' roid rage uphill last year.


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2007)

I don't know - kloden looked pretty strong. Vino held in there on a hard day. I was ready to dismiss them as contenders, but with a rest day and only one more day in the mountains this week, they both could be in pretty good order for the Pyrenees and TTs.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

AJL said:


> I don't know - kloden looked pretty strong. Vino held in there on a hard day. I was ready to dismiss them as contenders, but with a rest day and only one more day in the mountains this week, they both could be in pretty good order for the Pyrenees and TTs.


Kloden is strong but he's not working for himself. He's a domestique to Vino at the moment. Today, he lost himself 30 seconds to a minute waiting for Vino.

He has to race for himself soon.

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

ashpelham said:


> This thing with Rasmussen looked pretty real today. He seemed to take control of the race, and everyone else appeared to be taking it seriously. My opinion on Kloden and Vinokourov right now is that the injuries have sabotaged their chances, and the lack of a solid blood-doping program for the both of them means they can't win.
> 
> I don't want to take it down that road right now, but as for Valverde, Contador, and Evans, I just don't see any of them other than maybe Valverde being able to make a race of it now. Rasmussen is now the man to beat. That was the kind of uphill ride that I haven't seen since Landis' roid rage uphill last year.


Agreed. It's Rasmussen's race now. There's more uphill finishes and what's to stop Rasmussen from gaining more minutes over the contenders?

Also, the upcoming time trial has a bit of climbing. This will help Rasmussen who can climb a little bit.

fc


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## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

Crashed? He looks lucky to be alive.



kggb said:


> Stuart O'grady crashed and are out of the race and now michael Rogers too.


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

Just saw McEwen was timecut.

And as for comparing time differences for Rasmussen's prologue, don't compare to Cancellara. Everyone knows Fabian is going to gain huge time on everyone, and it won't matter.

Kloden is the best TTer of the GC men (that's my opinion), however if he has to keep ushering Vino along he'll be too far back to overcome the effort.


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## mohair_chair (Oct 3, 2002)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Very strange tactics with T-Mobile setting the pace despite having Rogers in the break.


I didn't find it strange. T-Mobile had the yellow jersey. and the other teams left it to them to do the pulling. It didn't look to me like they were trying to bring the break back. They were just riding tempo.


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## rufus (Feb 3, 2004)

dr hoo said:


> I think Cadel has a fear of the big bonk. Too bad if so. But face it, the smart way to play things today was to sit and keep things close while conserving energy. I think the 2nd ITT and the mountains after will be where the race is won.. though it can be lost a lot of places.


didn't he have the big bonk a few years ago, while riding for a podium place in the Giro? ended up totally blowing with a few stsges left.

probably doesn't want a repeat of that.


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## SilasCL (Jun 14, 2004)

rufus said:


> didn't he have the big bonk a few years ago, while riding for a podium place in the Giro? ended up totally blowing with a few stsges left.
> 
> probably doesn't want a repeat of that.


2002...really blew it pretty bad and Savoldelli took the win (with Tyler's breakout second place).


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Very strange tactics with T-Mobile setting the pace despite having Rogers in the break.


Out of all people, you Mr D.B. should know they were setting pace, but slowing up and running a slower pace than Rogers.

come on... get with the program.. they were blocking.

That forces other teams to come around them, and waste more energy. they move up, set a slower peaceful pace, and hope Rogers gets more time.

Maybe you are trolling.. I dunno.


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