# Supersix PF30 shell tolerance issues?



## cru_jones (Nov 29, 2009)

Hey all...almost first time SS EVO HM owner here. I have on order a 2014 frameset, but in general review of the interwebs I've come across some discussion about issues that Cannondale has had with their tolerance capabilities regarding the PF30 frames.

This is the most prominent info I'm referring too: brickhouseracing » The Cannondale EVO Saga 

At this point I haven't purchased a crank...it will be Sram RED 22 (maybe Force 22 if I decide to upgrade something else vs the crank) but is SRAM regardless, so I can still choose GXP over BB30 spindle, and go with GXP adapters in an attempt to avoid any potential PF30 issues alltogether...

This is while be my team ride, solo ride, climbing, great weather bike. It will never see a start line other than a TT or HC, so I'm strongly considering going compact for this build. (I have a CAAD 10 spec'd strictly for racing/group rides).

I'm fully aware of the adage that only people with issues usually post up, and if it was that big of an issue that there may be more chatter, but I can't know everything.

Just looking to see if anyone has input?

Thanks in advance.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

That'd be my saga... it was incredibly disappointing, to say the least, because otherwise, it's an excellent bike. Cannondale ended up refunding my money for a frameset, and I returned it, keeping all of the parts, and bought a Cysco custom Ti frame with the refund.

They just kept sending me bad frames. I even waited for the 2014 "fixed" version to be released, and, after waiting for ~6 months, they sent another 2013 instead.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

I'm going to be building up a bike for a friend, and if the frame ends up as a PF30 my plan is to buy the SRAM inserts that convert it to threaded. May use Loctite too, but generally they look like a good solution.










SRAM Press Fit 30 to BSA Adaptor Kit | Chain Reaction Cycles Used with the regular threaded cups.

Alternatively there are kits like this which do the whole thing










ADAPTER PRESSFIT 30 to GXP

More expensive but along the same lines are C-Bear who make a PF30 to GXP










PressFit 30 SRAM Truvativ GXP|C-BEAR.COM Ceramic Bearings 4 Bicyles

Someone will probably pipe up with "Praxis" who make good adapters apparently, but not GXP.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 10, 2008)

During the time that I was trying to get the replacement/refund worked out, I did use one of the plastic thread-in adapters & a GXP crank with moderate success... They tend to "walk" their way out of the frame a few millimeters with extended use, so I ended up removing my crank and pressing the cups back in flush every couple of weeks. 
I've had the same problem with that adapter doing the same thing on a MTB with no tolerance issues, so I would definitely go with one of the more substantial aluminum-shell adapters if that were going to be a permanent fixture of my bike.


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## cru_jones (Nov 29, 2009)

I was wondering what your "final" resolution was...

Been looking at all the different adapters/replacements. 

I'm interpreting that the issue with the frame BB shell itself. Meaning that if the frame is a PF30 shell, then no matter what, you have to put _something_ in the frame, whether it be the PF30 cups themselves, a PF30 to something else adapter, or an different manufacturer's PF30 BB entirely, etc. But if the issue is indeed with the frame itself, no matter what you put in could have an issue.

I believe it would be like having a frame with a nonconforming threaded shell...no matter who's BB you put in, a nonconforming shell equals issues no matter what.

The plus I have at this point is that I have a very good connection to Cannondale via a friend, that at this point is my best option if I have an issue.

I'm just trying to decide if I get a BB30/PF30 crankset or GXP at this point...I'm leaning towards sticking with the BB30/PF30 crank because at least there will be _less_ interfacing components between the crank spindle and frame, by not having the GXP adapter. In that case, I have to decide if I'm going with the "standard" SRAM PF30 cups/bearings, or something more aftermarket (i.e. Wheels Manuf, etc.). However, the flip side is possibly having something to interface betwen the spindle/frame could take up the tolerance issue. My understanding is the entire point of PF30 was so that manufactures could make frames with looser BB tolerances, and still get to claim the benefits of BB30. Funny thing is I ran an unbranded Chinese Ebay BB30 for over 3 years/30K miles with the same BB30 bearings and never had one, single issue and I ran 2-3 different cranks on that frame over the years.

I have some BB30 ceramic bearings leftover from another project (they came with a crankset I bought a while ago, so I just have them lying around) and I'm trying to decide if I should use them because I have them, or sell them. Selling would offset the cost of a GXP or threaded adapter...

This is supposed to be my dream bike, and to some degree no expense is shared. It's not a blank check by any means, but I'm wanting the good stuff so I really want to make the right decision. Plus I run 165mm cranks, so it's not like I can easily sell them if I decide after the fact I need a different spindle.


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

I'd recommend going for the BB30. And make sure to use green Loc-tite when pressing in the bearings. So unless your absolutely set on using a non-BB30 crank, then don't use any inserts.

Last year the shop I work for was 2nd in the U.S in Evo sales. I can only think of one or two instances where we had to pop out the bearings, clean and reapply Loc-tite to them. It's not a common issue. Now, we didn't sell any women's Evo's last year at all, it was all men's bikes. Everything from a 50cm up to a few 63cm's. 

What happened to Andrea was very unfortunate, but it's not the norm. So it's possible the issue Andrea went through only applied to the ladies frames.


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## cru_jones (Nov 29, 2009)

frdfandc said:


> I'd recommend going for the BB30. And make sure to use green Loc-tite when pressing in the bearings. So unless your absolutely set on using a non-BB30 crank, then don't use any inserts.
> 
> Last year the shop I work for was 2nd in the U.S in Evo sales. I can only think of one or two instances where we had to pop out the bearings, clean and reapply Loc-tite to them. It's not a common issue. Now, we didn't sell any women's Evo's last year at all, it was all men's bikes. Everything from a 50cm up to a few 63cm's.
> 
> What happened to Andrea was very unfortunate, but it's not the norm. So it's possible the issue Andrea went through only applied to the ladies frames.


Haven't purchased a crank yet...my frame isn't due in till end of Feb, so I have some time to figure it out. GXP is a tick cheaper, but then requires an adapter, the cost is close to a wash to stick with BB30.

The 2014 EVOs are a PF30 shell correct?


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

No. They are a BB30 shell. No adapters. Bearings get pressed directly into the frame. 

Innovation - BB30


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

frdfandc said:


> No. They are a BB30 shell. No adapters. Bearings get pressed directly into the frame.
> 
> Innovation - BB30


Did they change for 2014?

The EVO has always been listed as having PF30

SuperSix EVO Black Inc. - ROAD - BIKES - 2014


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## frdfandc (Nov 27, 2007)

Sorry, got my bikes mixed up. You are correct. The Evo is PF30. I was thinking of the CAAD10.


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## scooterman (Apr 15, 2006)

I have a 2012 evo HM, i have had no issues with the BB until i hit 6000 miles then it started popping bad. I knocked it out (came right out), pressed in a new one with green loctite, seems good. 

Now this kind of explains why on a customers 2013 i had a hell of a time removing one side of his BB. He brought in his bike to have a hollowgram crank installed with the new aluminum/ceramic BB. I couldn't for the life of me get one of the cups out. Finally it started to move, installed the new cups and crank and it seemed fine after. 

Good to know about this issue. Thanks for the post.


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## cru_jones (Nov 29, 2009)

frdfandc said:


> Sorry, got my bikes mixed up. You are correct. The Evo is PF30. I was thinking of the CAAD10.


Ok cool, I was 99.9sure the EVOs were PF30. My CAAD 10 is definately BB30 and that matches what the tech specs state, and the EVO says PF30.

With that said, does anyone know of a source for _just_ the PF30 cups themselves (no bearings). I'd like to run the ceramic bearings I have. Not so much because I think they are really that much better, but I already have them, so why not use them. My only option I can think of is to buy the complete PF30 BB assy and not use the bearings that come with it. Not a horrible option considering I'll have two bikes both using BB30 bearings so at some point I assume I'll need them...


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Is Cannondale PF30 as shoddy as their BB30 has been?

It seems slike nobody offers a simple PF30 to BSA conversion sleeve. Both FSA and SRAM make nice such sleeves for BB30, but I cannot find any for PF30.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

kbwh said:


> Is Cannondale PF30 as shoddy as their BB30 has been?
> 
> It seems slike nobody offers a simple PF30 to BSA conversion sleeve. Both FSA and SRAM make nice such sleeves for BB30, but I cannot find any for PF30.


What you talking 'bout?

I showed the SRAM PF30 to BSA in my post, with a nice picture too.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

You did, but that's not a single sleeve like this one for BB30 to BSA:


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

Oh you mean like this.............. 










looks a bit heavy, but then heavy is a sign of reliability.

This type relies on the internal bore being 46mm all the way through and most seem to be. But if the frame gets a bit narrower through the middle you are not going to get one of these in. Plus it's totally rigid to fit a shell we know may have looser tolerances than a BB30. Hence the proliferation of 2-piece designs for PF30 adapters with O rings.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Yes, that might be a problem, but most frames I've seen are convex, not concave. Who makes that one, is that a FSA logo I see? I kinda like it. Very Campag UT-friendly for frames in the need of such measures. 
Makers like Focus and Bianchi specify an uninterrupted sleeve between the BB faces. A no creaks solution, but tolerances will have to be met, so not cheap. The difference between a BSA and BB30 BB on a Bianchi is the threads.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

kbwh said:


> Yes, that might be a problem, but most frames I've seen are convex, not concave. Who makes that one, is that a FSA logo I see? I kinda like it. Very Campag UT-friendly for frames in the need of such measures.
> Makers like Focus and Bianchi specify a uninterrupted sleeve between the BB faces. A no creaks solution, but tolerances will have to be met, hence...


My interest was also in fitting Campy to a PF30 shell. The FSA sleeve adapters (yes it's FSA) are a little mysterious in that the FSA site does not presently show either of them - BB30 or PF30. The image came from eBay.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

OEM only perhaps? My 2013 BB30-equipped Bianchi Sempre Pro frame came with a 42x68 BSA sleeve from FSA. I guess the PF30-equipped 2014 comes with a 46x68 to keep shimano and GXP users happy. The BB has an aluminium sleeve and is stable enough for the Campag UT press fit cups.


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