# I need some insight on Campagnolo



## Ghostcode (Oct 1, 2010)

I've only ever been on a Campagnolo bike once in my life, and it was a LBS's owners 2010 Super Record 11. I was only on it for 5 minutes. I'm looking at the new 2011 stuff and I'd like to get the general consensus of comparing it to Shimano. (My first and only road bike has been DA7900 outfitted) I may be looking at Campagnolo for my next build. 

Most people consider Ultegra 6700 to be equivalent to Dura Ace 7900, however, Ultegra is just a little heavier. When you get down to 105 versus Ultegra, you really can't start comparing them. Although 105 is great stuff, it's not Ultegra, and it's definitely not Dura Ace.

Is it safe to say that Record 11 = Super Record 11 just a little heavier? Is Chorus considered Ultegra 6700 to Campagnolo? Athena? Centaur? I probably won't even consider looking at anything lower. Hopefully you get the gist of what I'm asking. I'm just weighting all options, price vs. performance, and comparing it to what I know - being Shimano. Thanks for your help/insight in advance.


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## Kristatos (Jan 10, 2008)

I think the only reason to buy Super Record 11 is if you are a die-hard Campy fan and have to have something called "Super Record". 

I went with the Record 11 as I believe the two to be nearly identical, with SR-11 being slightly lighter but more or less functionally equivalent. I think the Ultegra - DA analogy may hold although I think there are multiple versions of DA and Ultegra these days in which case R-11 and SR-11 may be more like comparing one DA gruppo to another (7800 & 7900?, sorry, not up-to-date on Shimano stuff)


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

functionally SR, R and Chorus are similar (some will say the same) - you get ceramic bearings with SR.

weights of an 8 piece groupset according to Campy:

SR 1,915g
R 1,974g delta 59g
Chorus 2,096g delta 122g

Using Lick's current groupset pricing - $2,545, $2,120, & $1,536 respectively, we arrive at a $/gram cost of $7.20/g to go from R to SR, or $4.79/g to go from Chorus to Record.

From what I've read & my own experience, you'd be starting to get into extreme WW territory much beyond $4.00/g

So, it comes down to how much you value the cost vs weight.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

One of the things that Campagnolo is famous for is that all their groups, all of them at least except for the lowest grade ones, are functionally equivalent. The differences are that of weight and/or durability. In the modern era, I've personally had Veloce, Chorus and Record groups, and I found the performance differences to be vanishingly small. As a matter of fact, the finest groupset I've ever come across is the 2008 era 10 speed Chorus that I currently have on one of my bikes. In about 5000 miles of riding, I think it's missed three shifts. Maybe four. I've never adjusted it, either.


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## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

agree. I have Record, Chorus and Centaur in "classic" 10 speed configurations. There may be some differences year to year (I prefer the early oughts "BB system" versions), but no differences in the way the shifting functions between groups.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

Ghostcode said:


> Is it safe to say that Record 11 = Super Record 11 just a little heavier? Is Chorus considered Ultegra 6700 to Campagnolo? Athena? Centaur? I probably won't even consider looking at anything lower. Hopefully you get the gist of what I'm asking. I'm just weighting all options, price vs. performance, and comparing it to what I know - being Shimano. Thanks for your help/insight in advance.


It depends on the year in question.

Historically the lower gruppos have shared a lot with the top end (most of the small parts are the same as Record), just using less carbon fiber and titanium and getting fewer design flourishes.

For instance, 2000-2007 Centaur/Daytona/Chorus/Record hubs all share the same aluminum axles and bearings. Record got a lighter free-hub (like a titanium pawl carrier), grease ports, and a sexier QR skewer. Centaur/Daytona got cheesier QR nuts. 

In 2007-2008 Campagnolo crippled the gruppos below Chorus, replacing the right mechanism which allows you to shift down to the smallest cog in one motion (or at least 5 cogs in newer incarnations) with one (Escape) that went down one cog at a time.

In 2009 they got rid of that mistake - but for 2011 they'll be doing the same thing only it will be called "PowerShift" for Athena/Centaur/Veloce.

The pull ratios are all the same though; so there are no problems running a Chorus shifter with Athena derailleurs.


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## DNM (Feb 27, 2008)

*SR is gorgeous.*

SR is oh so pretty. Some things you do not quantify by weight. Why buy a Merckx frame over a Specialized? Made in Italy, beautiful. How much more functional at 2X the price? But people do it. Me... I went in the middle... Spec frame, SR components.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

bikerjulio said:


> functionally SR, R and Chorus are similar (some will say the same) - you get ceramic bearings with SR...


Ceramic crankset bearings might be the single largest benefit to SR, *if* you ride in wet or dirty conditions a lot ... supposedly much more durable.

Ceramic bearings can be retrofitted relatively easily to Chorus or Record cranks, too:
http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-6862530.html
But of course it won't have the SR graphics ;-)

I upgraded to Record calipers on my 2009 Chorus gruppo, solely because I wanted black color. Record caliper was a little lighter, too ... and the caliper upgrade wasn't that expensive, around $80 IIRC.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

The nicest thing with SR is that you (yes, you!) have to get real close to actually see the text SUPER RECORD. Record and Chorus have much larger types. I like that understated bling.

I run polished Chorus brakes for my Alu-rimmed training wheels, and the black SR ones for the new carbon-rimmed FFWD F2R 240s' that arrived today (swapping calipers is faster than swapping pads, right?). 

Seriousness aside: I might have to get the 2011 SR to match the red on the rims and hubs, no?


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## SaddleTime (Nov 23, 2009)

Andy at Competitive Cyclist did an in-depth review of the similarities and differences between the different groupos (SR11, R11, C11).

Campy just seems to be on an entirely different plane when it comes to the detail that they design to, right down to using ceramic bushings or bearings in the RD and bushings or bearings in the shifters, varying degrees of cushioning in the hoods, and anti-corrosive coatings on the cogs/rings.

Of course, making all components from all three groupos look like pure sex doesn't hurt, either. 

http://www.youtube.com/user/competitivecyclist#p/u/0/OdBxCmS5pXU


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

SaddleTime said:


> Campy just seems to be on an entirely different plane when it comes to the detail that they design to, right down to using ceramic bushings or bearings in the RD and bushings or bearings in the shifters, varying degrees of cushioning in the hoods, and anti-corrosive coatings on the cogs/rings.


Record (and some older Chorus) brakes have ball thrust bearings between the arms instead of bushings.


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## Sharknose (Aug 9, 2010)

Any problems with using a Centaur rear derailleur and Veloce levers?


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

Sharknose said:


> Any problems with using a Centaur rear derailleur and Veloce levers?


There's nothing special about combining Centaur and Velocity as long as the derailleur cable pull matches up.

There are three options there:
All 8 speed and 9 speed through 2000
2001 and newer 9 speed plus all 10 speed
11 speed

As long as the parts come from the same era it will just work.

There are five types of ergo brifters:
G-spring with pointy hoods, used for all 8 speed and 1997 9 speed
G-spring with rounded hoods, used through 2007 except for escape
Escape, used for 2007-2008 lower end groups (Veloce, Centaur)
Detent disk with latest design, used for current 10/11 speed except 2011 Athena/Veloce/Centaur.
Powershift, used for 2011 lower end 10 and 11 speed groups groups 

If you have the wrong vintage rounded-hood G-spring shifter you can get a new index disc to make it work.

With pointy-hood shifters a replacement part used to be available to run new 9 speed; you may be able to find one new old stock.

The detent disc shifters can be converted between 10 and 11 speed although Campagnolo has discontinued the parts and is now selling complete assemblies except for mount/hood/brake lever.


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