# Is pro cycling a dying sport?



## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Here’s the question(s)? Are we following a sport that is slowly dying (on a forum that is doing the same) or is pro cycling just reaching a point where it needs to evolve?

https://www.velonews.com/2019/06/ri...financial-model-for-pro-womens-cycling_495317

What needs to happen on the business/sponsorship side in your opinions?

What about how races are televised and presented?

Does covering more crits and gravel events make sense given how popular they are at a grassroots level?

Has the Hammer Series brought anything useful to the table that can be applied elsewhere?

Are people just ultimately bored of watching pro cycling, where the first 1-3 hours are pretty meaningless to most of us?

Were/are the doping scandals too much too overcome?

What do you think?


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## Finx (Oct 19, 2017)

I think the UCI is preventing pro cycling from "evolving".

They had a great chance to turn the top level of track cycling into a heavily sponsored popular spectator sport when Team Huub/Wattbike ( and other privately sponsored riders and teams ) started showing up at races and beating some if the best nation sponsored riders and teams in the world. 

Instead, they changed the name from "Track Cycling World Championships" to "The Nations Cup" or something along those lines... and changed the rules to only allow national teams and reduced the number of events from 6 to 3.

This is a perfect example of the UCI not only failing to seize an opportunity, but also shooting themselves in the foot.

They have also failed to purge the stigma of PEDs at the top level of the sport. Many people are turned off by the this, and don't want to encourage their kids to participate in a sport where the perception is that you have to cheat to win.



Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Finx said:


> I think the UCI is preventing pro cycling from "evolving".
> 
> They had a great chance to turn the top level of track cycling into a heavily sponsored popular spectator sport when Team Huub/Wattbike ( and other privately sponsored riders and teams ) started showing up at races and beating some if the best nation sponsored riders and teams in the world.
> 
> ...


It’s definitely not a good look. You want top notch competition at these events and fans to get riled up supporting some team or rider. Who cares if it’s a national or trade team? At some point, pro cycling has to realize that it’s competing against sports that are far more exciting, for the attention of a generation that has much shorter attention spans and less patience. My guess is that pro cycling comes to that realization (and change occurs) if/when NBC and other major networks replace pro cycling on their schedules with some other sport that people enjoy watching more.


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## nayr497 (Nov 8, 2008)

Just my experience and situation:

I got into road cycling in my early 20s, after college. I'd played "ball" sports, including through the DI level in college. After college was burned out on it, but wanted some exercise. I first started bike commuting to my job at the time, was tired of waiting for busses and had a bike. I realized I loved riding a bike. Had done so since I was a kid, but nothing serious. Well, my commuter bike got too slow for me, as others passed me. Picked up a used Cannondale...and it just went from there. Within a few years I was a full-on roadie. Numerous road bikes, riding a few hours a day. Then I moved to a new place with a good road scene. Started doing group rides, was riding many hours a week. Got into pro cycling in the late 00s/aughts. I'd watch all the races, I loved it. I'd also gotten bored of NFL, NBA, NHL, etc. Games too slow, too boring, just not my thing.

2019. I have a full-time job. (I was in grad school for a number of years when I was a serious roadie and watching a lot of pro races, it was my main hobby/time waster instead of school work!) I have a wife, a three year old son, and a second on the way. 

I have little free time, not even enough to ride my bikes beyond commuting. I don't watch any mainstream sports at all (Well, the World Cup last summer, but that is once every four years). I'd still watch cycling, but I no longer can find race streams. I used to watch for free. I paid 1-2 years ago, then that site/service went belly up.

I'd actually watch more pro cycling if I could watch it online and not pay. I know, this is what helps the sport die, but I'm not enough of a fan to pay. I don't have cable either. I'd watch it more if I could, but I can't. I agree the "product" could be improved for fans, but I'm okay with it...I just can't find the races online for free. Again, call me a freeloader, which is fine. But, I don't have the time to watch enough to justify paying for it. At this point, I'd rather spend time with my family. Walk my dogs. Or heck, ride my bike more.

And to add to that - I have less and less time for multi-hour road rides. The less I do it, the less comfortable I feel on open roads with all the crazy drivers. With the rise in gravel riding interest, I wonder if there will be a big dip in road cycling in the U.S, which is where I live. I feel less and less safe riding on open roads, partially because I do it less and less. But drivers are more and more distracted and cars are getting faster and faster. Who know how autonomous vehicles will change things.

Pro cycling has largerly died off for me because I a) don't have the time and/or choose to spend my time with family rather than watching sports of any kind b) can't find free online streams of races as easily. Or at all.


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## nayr497 (Nov 8, 2008)

Finx said:


> I think the UCI is preventing pro cycling from "evolving".
> 
> They had a great chance to turn the top level of track cycling into a heavily sponsored popular spectator sport when Team Huub/Wattbike ( and other privately sponsored riders and teams ) started showing up at races and beating some if the best nation sponsored riders and teams in the world.
> 
> ...


Not that I disagree, but the PED issue is just amazing to me when I'm positive PEDs are rampant in the NFL and NBA and likely NHL, just that nobody really cares and chooses to ignore/pretend they aren't. So weird to me.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

nayr497 said:


> Just my experience and situation:
> 
> I got into road cycling in my early 20s, after college. I'd played "ball" sports, including through the DI level in college. After college was burned out on it, but wanted some exercise. I first started bike commuting to my job at the time, was tired of waiting for busses and had a bike. I realized I loved riding a bike. Had done so since I was a kid, but nothing serious. Well, my commuter bike got too slow for me, as others passed me. Picked up a used Cannondale...and it just went from there. Within a few years I was a full-on roadie. Numerous road bikes, riding a few hours a day. Then I moved to a new place with a good road scene. Started doing group rides, was riding many hours a week. Got into pro cycling in the late 00s/aughts. I'd watch all the races, I loved it. I'd also gotten bored of NFL, NBA, NHL, etc. Games too slow, too boring, just not my thing.
> 
> ...


I think this is part of it. Is pro cycling’s product compelling enough to get busy people with competing interests and other options to use some of their valuable free time watching it? 

Try Tiz - cycling Live for free streams. 

Oh and the NFL has a much more stringent ped testing program than cycling does I believe. Other big sports may as well. There’s too much to lose for “leagues” not to today. Cycling is unusual in that there’s less money involved, coming from fewer places, and the likes of the UCI and ASO have basically total discretion. These other sports have collective bargaining agreements, major television contracts, and tons of oversight.


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## taodemon (Mar 17, 2014)

I would love to take mornings off to watch races live while drinking beers with buddies but who has the time to do that? I certainly don't. The free time I do have I try to be out riding or doing something else. This isn't exclusive to cycling for me though. I don't watch much TV at all other than some playoff/finals sports. I'll watch regular season football games but only because there are so few in comparison to other sports and even then if I watch 8 regular season games that would be a lot.


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## DaveG (Feb 4, 2004)

Rashadabd said:


> Here’s the question(s)? Are we following a sport that is slowly dying (on a forum that is doing the same) or is pro cycling just reaching a point where it needs to evolve?
> 
> https://www.velonews.com/2019/06/ri...financial-model-for-pro-womens-cycling_495317
> 
> ...


For me, pro cycling isn't interesting enough to watch unedited. I had NBC Sports Gold for a couple of years and I would watch the Tour stages but generally only the TT's and mountains, and even then I was skipping ahead to get to the "good parts". If there was an option to watch a one hour edited highlights summary of each stages I would watch that but since major networks have no interest in this I doubt it will happen. On the other hand people watch NASCAR and soccer on TV so there are some viewers that can tolerate a lot of boredom


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

There are a few things here. First in the US it has never really been anything more than a niche sport and never will be. Next, I think the Hammer Series is an attempt at trying something a little different, however the TTT part still needs some work (and I think the TTT would actually benefit from being on an enclosed race track type of setting). Financing, they need to find more ways of bringing in money for the teams and one thing that it appears only Quickstep has really started to do anything with is merchandising. Quickstep has started selling stuff with the Wolfpack name on it and have started selling a few with with riders names and even autographs on them. This is a way to bring in some money and also boost rider pay without it being part of the salary as they'd get a small percentage of money from items sold with their name or autograph on it.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

As for attention spans people still watch baseball, soccer and auto racing.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

Rashadabd said:


> Here’s the question(s)? Are we following a sport that is slowly dying (on a forum that is doing the same) or is pro cycling just reaching a point where it needs to evolve?
> 
> https://www.velonews.com/2019/06/ri...financial-model-for-pro-womens-cycling_495317
> 
> ...


The problem with cycling....it is insanely expensive in equipment. Just bonkers. Which is compounded by the ability of anyone local to see it for _free _from the roadside. Which is made worse because unlike Basketball/Football that _*100% ride on taxpayer subsidization of equipment*_ (i.e. venues), cycling doesn't. No corporate sponsorship model will ROI in cycling--EVER. It is too expensive. Especially on the men's side--where race's actually get salary/income/insurance (like they should).

Men's UCI Road racing has become a sport of prima-donnas who don't even change their own tires. They throw a temper tantrum and bounce a bike costing more than a working-man's income _for a year_ on the ground like a toddler while a butler (team mech) gets another off their own SAG....that has been telling them what to do for 4+ hours everyday via radio... They have Team campers, not even staying in local hotels.. They have Team masseuses. Team wrenches. Team this and that....it has led to a sport so far removed from anyone's everyday cycling experience it becomes patently artificial.

...which is part of the appeal of "gravel" events--returns to the Hard Man/Woman days where you _had to support yourself_ across lord knows what.


The race "tactics" are part of the bore. Made worse by US coverage--which only knows the NFL model of 30 seconds of action and 10 minutes of standing around. Half the fun in watching a cycle race is tourism and seeing locales you never might. US streams/broadcasters ALWAYS cut out this in favor or making faux-drama out of nothing to fill time, and of course, throwing to commercials 80% of the time. Hammer has helped a bit. But it is one tiny event.


I haven't talked about the women's side....because it is almost never broadcast. Although that is changing a bit. And honestly the races tend to be much more interesting.


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## MoonHowl (Oct 5, 2008)

I had been watching the TDF and Veulta on NBC sports gold; they keep jacking up the price every year; so done with that. Not worth my time or money to continue to watch pro-cycling. Between the corruption and increasingly boring racing; not much entertainment value there IMHO. Although as noted, pretty much all pro-sports and college (football & basketball) even more so are as bad or worse than pro-cycling.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

MoonHowl said:


> I had been watching the TDF and Veulta on NBC sports gold; they keep jacking up the price every year; so done with that. Not worth my time or money to continue to watch pro-cycling. Between the corruption and increasingly boring racing; not much entertainment value there IMHO. Although as noted, pretty much all pro-sports and college (football & basketball) even more so are as bad or worse than pro-cycling.


I am pretty close to this. I like the last 40 or so miles of the Classics, but as stated by others, I could really live with and prefer extended highlights of stage race stages, especially grand tours. I enjoy NBA games as they approach the playoffs, but the seasons for NBA and MLB are WAY too long. March madness is fun as they approach the sweet sixteen and farther and I love the summer Olympics. Can’t watch a full football game or soccer matches anymore. I can only really watch the last 20 minutes or so of F1, but I genuinely like the sport. I also like watching the finals of tennis grand slams. It’s fun. 

I prefer to play/do any sport rather than watch it these days. It’s tough because I am getting older and that’s becoming tougher to do, but I almost always would rather be outside. I just don’t enjoy a day spent in front of the tv as much as I did even five years ago.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Oh and I really like watching XCO MTB World Cup races. The length is almost the perfect amount of time, they are extremely entertaining if Nino Schurter isn’t winning them all (which he currently isn’t), and the terrain is both beautiful and keeps the race interesting. There are climbs, there are descents, people crash, but are typically able to get back up and race, etc. Weather can also completely change the game as well. The coverage is well done and it’s all free on red bull tv. Check it out if you haven’t.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

Marc said:


> The problem with cycling....it is insanely expensive in equipment. Just bonkers. Which is compounded by the ability of anyone local to see it for _free _from the roadside. Which is made worse because unlike Basketball/Football that _*100% ride on taxpayer subsidization of equipment*_ (i.e. venues), cycling doesn't. No corporate sponsorship model will ROI in cycling--EVER. It is too expensive. Especially on the men's side--where race's actually get salary/income/insurance (like they should).
> 
> Men's UCI Road racing has become a sport of prima-donnas who don't even change their own tires. They throw a temper tantrum and bounce a bike costing more than a working-man's income _for a year_ on the ground like a toddler while a butler (team mech) gets another off their own SAG....that has been telling them what to do for 4+ hours everyday via radio... They have Team campers, not even staying in local hotels.. They have Team masseuses. Team wrenches. Team this and that....it has led to a sport so far removed from anyone's everyday cycling experience it becomes patently artificial.
> 
> ...


Yeah, the free admission thing is both admirable and stupid. Cycling doesn’t come close to the cost of running an F1 team or race, but I hear ya.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

The Classics and one day races for me. The Tours and week long races where nobody is racing but everybody is protecting their position suck.

One day races are interesting and can be exciting but a multi day race has us waiting till the last kilometers of the race for an attack, and then, 
sh!t, too late again. Too much energy spent on keeping the third step of the podium and not enough spent on climbing to the top.


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## GlobalGuy (Jun 9, 2015)

While it has flourished in Europe pro cycling like F1 has never been big in the United States and IMO the two will never be big in the US. Too many other things or distractions and competitors including other sports firmly entrenched.


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

I continue to love watching bicycle racing, but there's no denying that professional bicycle racing is an odd sport. For starters, teams constantly change their names to reflect their current sponsors, something which makes it harder to root for a particular team as the years go by. The teams constantly change their uniforms, as well! For better or worse, what this does is de-emphasize the concept that there are actually teams out there.

Instead, what we root for are individual riders, who are much like actors working in a series of individual films. They develop roles and personalities. Some are tough guys. Some are loyal subordinates. Some are petulant, fragile, vainglorious egomaniacs. Let Cipo be Cipo. Let Lahnce be Lahnce. Let Zabel be Zabel.

Sure, individual stages mostly consist of the riders locked in position for lengthy periods, but there are plenty of subtleties to enjoy as the miles/kilometers roll by. Members of rival teams find themselves in temporary alliances. How long will the alliance last? Who (or is it whose _legs_) will betray whom?

Then there's the craziness of where they do the races. Though the officials try their best to keep obstacles and spectators a safe distance away from the participants, the races happen on public roads, not in the sterility of stadiums. Chaos is never more than a moment away. Finally, oh yeah. The playing fields are absolutely breathtaking.

In other words, pro bicycle racing, and especially the grand tours, operate on a level that makes them beyond compare in the world of sports. The sport defiantly breaks the rules. The craziness may not make the buttoned-down happy. But how 'bout if we occasionally loosen our collars?


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

Mapei said:


> I continue to love watching bicycle racing, but there's no denying that professional bicycle racing is an odd sport. For starters, teams constantly change their names to reflect their current sponsors, something which makes it harder to root for a particular team as the years go by. The teams constantly change their uniforms, as well! For better or worse, what this does is de-emphasize the concept that there are actually teams out there.
> 
> Instead, what we root for are individual riders, who are much like actors working in a series of individual films. They develop roles and personalities. Some are tough guys. Some are loyal subordinates. Some are petulant, fragile, vainglorious egomaniacs. Let Cipo be Cipo. Let Lahnce be Lahnce. Let Zabel be Zabel.
> 
> ...


+1...Well said


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

The changing sponsorships is no different from auto racing where sponsorships are changing all the time.

Cycling will never be a popular sport in the US. Too many other things going on and the races are basically raced while we're sleeping and/or working. There are too many other things to do and too many other sports as well. Heck in LA unless you have a team winning you aren't going to sell out a stadium for any sport because there are to many other things you can easily do with your time.

Do I enjoy it sure, but I prefer the one day races to the stage races. The TdF being my least favorite race to watch. As for the flat sprint stages, well let me know where there are 20k or less to go. The rest isn't worth bothering to watch.

My favorite sport happens to be hockey.


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## Oxtox (Aug 16, 2006)

I don't give a rat's ass about most pro sports.

the NFL, NBA, MLB, PGA, NHL etc can all just suck it...don't care about their outcomes.

but, watching the TdF is a years-long tradition...I record every stage and dutifully watch every year listening to the Phil and Paul blather.

is it always exciting racing...no. but the fast-forward / mute buttons solve most of those problems.

have tried to watch other pro cycling races, but they just don't inspire my interest.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

KoroninK said:


> The changing sponsorships is no different from auto racing where sponsorships are changing all the time.
> 
> Cycling will never be a popular sport in the US. Too many other things going on and the races are basically raced while we're sleeping and/or working. There are too many other things to do and too many other sports as well. Heck in LA unless you have a team winning you aren't going to sell out a stadium for any sport because there are to many other things you can easily do with your time.
> 
> ...


Thing is...most of the calendar year there is no sports broadcast in the USA. High cycling season there's practically no sporting content to watch in the us at all. 
Football season lasts all of a few months as does basketball....other than that, ESPN and the like only air reruns.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

GlobalGuy said:


> While it has flourished in Europe pro cycling like F1 has never been big in the United States and IMO the two will never be big in the US. Too many other things or distractions and competitors including other sports firmly entrenched.


At one time track racing was the biggest sport in the USA. Six day races attracted the big crowds and I've read that if the velodrome was sold out folks who couldn't get in would go to a baseball game.

The "Madison" got it's name from Madison Square Garden.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

velodog said:


> At one time track racing was the biggest sport in the USA. Six day races attracted the big crowds and I've read that if the velodrome was sold out folks who couldn't get in would go to a baseball game.
> 
> The "Madison" got it's name from Madison Square Garden.


I have read about those good old days when researching Major Taylor's career. It seems like we are a long ways from that now. Teams and races are folding on the regular. Some get replaced, some don't. Less and less of my friends and associates even follow races closely anymore. They would rather be out riding (and often MTB or gravel). It will certainly be interesting to see where things stand five-ten years from now.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Marc said:


> Thing is...most of the calendar year there is no sports broadcast in the USA. High cycling season there's practically no sporting content to watch in the us at all.
> Football season lasts all of a few months as does basketball....other than that, ESPN and the like only air reruns.


Basketball (college is November through March (first weekend of April). Hockey season is longer. The NHL season is from the beginning of Oct through May and into June for the finals. However, good luck finding it on TV, esp if you aren't in a market of an NHL team. Middle of the summer is when the US is lacking for sports coverage with baseball and auto racing being it. It would be nice to have some real coverage of races, but stations like ESPN would prefer to show poker (who know why) to cycling. I remember when ESPN was young (back in the 80's) and they showed all kinds of sports, but now if it's not football or basketball they don't care.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

KoroninK said:


> Basketball (college is November through March (first weekend of April). Hockey season is longer. The NHL season is from the beginning of Oct through May and into June for the finals. However, good luck finding it on TV, esp if you aren't in a market of an NHL team. Middle of the summer is when the US is lacking for sports coverage with baseball and auto racing being it. It would be nice to have some real coverage of races, but stations like ESPN would prefer to show poker (who know why) to cycling. I remember when ESPN was young (back in the 80's) and they showed all kinds of sports, but now if it's not football or basketball they don't care.


Just looked. Local cable monopoly has 50 or so dedicated sports channels, not including duplicates. Almost all are idle.

Even ESPN today only actually had 4 hours of actual sports today out of 24...all the rest is studio talk fluff.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Marc said:


> Just looked. Local cable monopoly has 50 or so dedicated sports channels, not including duplicates. Almost all are idle.
> 
> Even ESPN today only actually had 4 hours of actual sports today out of 24...all the rest is studio talk fluff.


Dish has some sports channels called Alternative. Basically what that means is during a specific season they will put some games on those stations so that a wider audience can view them instead of the local market audience only which many of them on their local sports stations can't be viewed if you aren't in that market. As I said, ESPN isn't what it was when it first started and showed tons of actual sports. I remember when they showed hydroplane racing, but they haven't showed that since the early 90's.


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

KoroninK said:


> Basketball (college is November through March (first weekend of April). Hockey season is longer. The NHL season is from the beginning of Oct through May and into June for the finals. However, good luck finding it on TV, esp if you aren't in a market of an NHL team. Middle of the summer is when the US is lacking for sports coverage with baseball and auto racing being it. It would be nice to have some real coverage of races, but stations like* ESPN would prefer to show poker *(who know why) to cycling. I remember when ESPN was young (back in the 80's) and they showed all kinds of sports, but now *if it's not football or basketball they don't care*.


Gambling


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

velodog said:


> Gambling


Now that is an interesting thought.


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## 4Crawler (Jul 13, 2011)

At least Eurosport is maintaining their cycling coverage. All the big races and so many smaller races. For the big races, they seem to have the live coverage first thing in the morning then shorter summary programs later in the day. This is one of the only things I subscribe to. You do need a VPN connection to the UK for access to the video stream:
http://bit.ly/2ZTnWsm


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

I pretty much like all forms of racing, cycling being my fave. Speed skating is second. We have a pretty lively and varied scene, we have a Wednesday night track racing scene on an auto track velo. We have a few car tracks, one dirt. We have a very rich history of boat racing, from inland regattas to sailing and yachting to off shore monster engine ocean racing. 

I watch lots of road cycling. I watch a little of other cycling, track mostly, CX is a passing interest. What I love most about road racing is the racing within the racing. The teamwork strategies and the alliances and rivalries. You don’t have much of that chess game in other cycling disciplines. The fluidity of teams, riders, sponsors and the like can be maddening. Sometimes it’s exciting, but mostly it’s frustrating. Mapei said it perfectly. Sure, protecting placing can be boring and this year it has been especially common with breakaways routinely winning stages. I don’t think cycling will get more or less popular. I think it is what it is. It is a spectacularly brutal, dangerous and beautiful sport but you need to understand it to appreciate it, like baseball minus the life threatening conditions... My wife is also a racing fan, stock cars, F1 and cycling. But she will also get into anything local.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

KoroninK said:


> Now that is an interesting thought.


plenty plenty of gambling on cycling.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

den bakker said:


> plenty plenty of gambling on cycling.


In the trackie heyday at MSG gambling was central to the sports popularity!


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

den bakker said:


> plenty plenty of gambling on cycling.




https://www.statista.com/statistics/661695/most-popular-sports-for-betting-on-in-us/

From the link...
_This statistic shows most popular sports for betting in the United States in 2017 according to a Statista survey. 77 percent of survey respondents said they had placed bets on football in the past._


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

velodog said:


> 
> 
> https://www.statista.com/statistics/661695/most-popular-sports-for-betting-on-in-us/
> 
> ...


ok. 
so?


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

den bakker said:


> ok.
> so?


While, yes, there is plenty of gambling on cycling, I posted the link to the top 10 sports being bet on in the USA because that seems to be where cycling coverage seems to be the issue in this thread. Football and basketball are on top of that list and my gambling response was to
"_I remember when ESPN was young (back in the 80's) and they showed all kinds of sports, but now if it's not football or basketball they don't care.
_"
in KoroninK's post.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

velodog said:


> While, yes, there is plenty of gambling on cycling, I posted the link to the top 10 sports being bet on in the USA because that seems to be where cycling coverage seems to be the issue in this thread. Football and basketball are on top of that list and my gambling response was to
> "_I remember when ESPN was young (back in the 80's) and they showed all kinds of sports, but now if it's not football or basketball they don't care.
> _"
> in KoroninK's post.


this thread is about pro cycling. So what happens in the us is a small side note. 

Do you think a survey time period of January 6 - 14, 2017 is of much use for cycling?


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

den bakker said:


> this thread is about pro cycling. So what happens in the us is a small side note.
> 
> Do you think a survey time period of January 6 - 14, 2017 is of much use for cycling?


Sorry I offended you.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

velodog said:


> Sorry I offended you.


well if that's all you got. 
have a nice day.


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## harryman (Nov 14, 2014)

I'll watch the grand tours, classics and other European racing for the scenery, memories of travel there and of course the riding. I'm too cheap to pay, so I stream, and can pick and choose what and how much of a stage I'll watch. Streaming is Eurosport coverage which is far better than Paul as well. I'm part of the problem, a casual fan at best, and I am more of a fan than all of my bike riding buddies, none of them watch or support racing in any way, including those who used to race. I guess if cycling in the US figured out a way to sell beer ads like every other sport, they might have a shot at paying the bills. 

Road racing in the US is extremely boring, primarily because of the roads, giant, giant roads of mostly safely engineered grades where big groups ride along all day. We don't have the courses that cause groups to splinter, and favor attackers like the roads in Europe do. Watching domestic road racing is like watching the Olympic marathon, maybe worth having on while you vacuum the living room? 

I'd rather watch CX races than XC, I think the level of skill is higher. My favorite though on the dirt is DH and EWC coverage.


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## eugenetsang (Jun 9, 2011)

I look forward to July every year, but not for the 4th and bbqs. But rather, it's for the TdF! To be honest, Pro cycling isn't as interesting for me as it was 10-15 years ago... It's loosing its appeal. Don't get me wrong, I still look up YouTube highlights daily... But for the UCI to get me watching 100+ miles a day, that is a lot to ask for.

Like the other posters have mentioned, I would simply watch the last 30 miles. It's more entertaining for me than wasting an entire day, when the last 10 miles or so is what we're all waiting for...

On the other hand, I feel Crit racing is surpassing "tour" style racing. Short races but FAST racing. it doesn't matter if you're racing fixies or road bikes... It is certainly entertaining. You get to see you favorite racer, lap after lap... That is not the case if you watch pro cycling (tour style)


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## BacDoc (Aug 1, 2011)

I’m an avid cyclist and casual pro cycling fan. I always watch highlights on SteepHill of classics, Giro and Vuelta but I try to watch more of the TDF. The other grand tours are actually as good or better but the TDF is the “Tour”! Gotta admit, even though it’s not cool I actually look forward to Phil, Bobke and Christian. Miss Paul!

As far as PED, I’m sure most don’t give a Sh$t, and most know that ALL pro money sports are juiced. Heck, most spectators are “juiced “ in some form lol!

One thing I know is that cycling in general is on a big upswing in the US. Every place I visit and in my home town there are more cyclists than ever. My small town has 3 pretty big bike shops and they all are doing better than ever.


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## robm90 (Aug 5, 2010)

TDF = Boring AF. No parity at all in the teams. They need to pool the sponsor money and set salary caps to make it competitive or why will anyone want to watch?


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

robm90 said:


> TDF = Boring AF. No parity at all in the teams. They need to pool the sponsor money and set salary caps to make it competitive or why will anyone want to watch?


I agree. We have been discussing that very thing in the transfer rumors thread due to rumors that Ineos will likely be signing another group of rising stars this offseason. It’s just silly at this point in my opinion.


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## nayr497 (Nov 8, 2008)

Pretty much reduced to watching highlights at this point. Not interested enough to pay to watch & can't be bothered trying to get a decent feed. Only a few years back I was watching most stages live.

Oh well. I still ride 7 days a week


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

robm90 said:


> TDF = Boring AF. No parity at all in the teams. They need to pool the sponsor money and set salary caps to make it competitive or why will anyone want to watch?


I'd go farther and go with an entire budget cap.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

> TDF = Boring AF. No parity at all in the teams. They need to pool the sponsor money and set salary caps to make it competitive or why will anyone want to watch?


It is a grand tour. If all you're interested in is the GC or even action...you're watching the wrong thing. If all you want is action action action, get into track.

Commentators generally do a massive disservice to people's expectations. It is a tour that is a race that is 3,000km long. Every year we get an eye feast of tourism and local culture...so long as NBC (or whatever idiots in the USA are carrying it) don't cut out the actual interesting bit--which they usually neuter mightily and throw up ad-breaks at every scenery shot opportunity.



KoroninK said:


> I'd go farther and go with an entire budget cap.


But then how will Bora and INEOS afford their private dinner/catering truck?? :frown2:


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Marc said:


> It is a grand tour. If all you're interested in is the GC or even action...you're watching the wrong thing. If all you want is action action action, get into track.
> 
> Commentators generally do a massive disservice to people's expectations. It is a tour that is a race that is 3,000km long. Every year we get an eye feast of tourism and local culture...so long as NBC (or whatever idiots in the USA are carrying it) don't cut out the actual interesting bit--which they usually neuter mightily and throw up ad-breaks at every scenery shot opportunity.
> 
> ...



The add breaks have gotten insane. Which doesn't help the horrible commentary.

For the catering budget, not my problem. Actually Bora may be under the budget cap so they may be able to still have theirs. Ineos is spending two to three times what everyone else is spending so it's time to bring them in line.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

KoroninK said:


> The add breaks have gotten insane. Which doesn't help the horrible commentary.
> _*
> For the catering budget, not my problem. *_Actually Bora may be under the budget cap so they may be able to still have theirs. Ineos is spending two to three times what everyone else is spending so it's time to bring them in line.


I was only being slightly sarcastic.

I'm a bit surprised the departements still want to put up with the race. It made sense when the tour was an entire convoy of people/material needing to "rough it" on local hospitality infrastructure, and brought in tourism and more bucks in a day than the rest of the month...But increasingly the racers and team staff have nothing to do with local hospitality, and the TdF itself is increasingly filling air-time about fluff rather than local food/culture/tourism...making the discussion not the country and communities--but the unsuspenseful non-race for the GC, to the exclusion of all else.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Marc said:


> I was only being slightly sarcastic.
> 
> I'm a bit surprised the departements still want to put up with the race. It made sense when the tour was an entire convoy of people/material needing to "rough it" on local hospitality infrastructure, and brought in tourism and more bucks in a day than the rest of the month...But increasingly the racers and team staff have nothing to do with local hospitality, and the TdF itself is increasingly filling air-time about fluff rather than *local food/culture/tourism*...making the discussion not the country and communities--but the unsuspenseful non-race for the GC, to the exclusion of all else.


I don't think the NBC commentators have a clue about any of that. I'd love a feature on each of those things with someone who actually knows it from each region. It would be a lot better than whatever it is they talk about anyway. The unsuspenseful non race for GC and the green jersey. They also seem to love to talk about Sagan and that as well and that race is even less suspenseful than the GC race. Then of course there's the whole let's ignore everyone who doesn't speak English well, with the exception of Quintana. Why they love pushing him so much, I will never understand. There are plenty of other riders in the peloton. Heck, how about finding out a bit about some of the unknown domestiques. That would be more interesting.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

Marc said:


> It is a grand tour. If all you're interested in is the GC or even action...you're watching the wrong thing. If all you want is action action action, get into track.


Agreed. The nature of a GT is more of a long, immersive experience as witnessed by the people out with their RV's to watch a few minutes / seconds of the peloton passing (but of course they have had all of the pre-peloton caravan going by first with all of the "goodies"). It isn't wacky races. It is a difficult event to televise with appeal to people who don't have the time, inclination, whatever to watch "nothing" happen for extended periods except seeing great countryside etc. The highlights shows on tv and youtube are useful adjuncts (all, IMHO, of course).


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

coldash said:


> Agreed. The nature of a GT is more of a long, immersive experience as witnessed by the people out with their RV's to watch a few minutes / seconds of the peloton passing (but of course they have had all of the pre-peloton caravan going by first with all of the "goodies"). It isn't wacky races. It is a difficult event to televise with appeal to people who don't have the time, inclination, whatever to watch "nothing" happen for extended periods except seeing great countryside etc. The highlights shows on tv and youtube are useful adjuncts (all, IMHO, of course).


The TdF started as a pretty brutal endurance event\race that more resembled RAAM(Race Across America) than the current TdF.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

velodog said:


> The TdF started as a pretty brutal endurance event\race that more resembled RAAM(Race Across America) than the current TdF.


True but in the early days there were minutes, hours and even days between competitors. It wasn’t a bunch sprint for 1000s of Kms and probably had less “action” than the recent events


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## velodog (Sep 26, 2007)

coldash said:


> True but in the early days there were minutes, hours and even days between competitors. It wasn’t a bunch sprint for 1000s of Kms and probably had less “action” than the recent events


Right, it wasn't designed as a spectator sport, but one to be read about in the paper, a war of attrition.


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## robm90 (Aug 5, 2010)

All that may be true, but for example when Contador and Andy Schleck dueled it out in the mountains, the race was on the line, Now the race is decided in the transfer season when the biggest money team compiles it's roster, no hint of competition in the race, The domestiques break down all the other teams and the leader rolls up time on each mountain stage. Just a boring race that has been no fun to watch since Wiggins won it.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

10 different stage winners in the 10 non TTT stages so far and a great solo win by TdG. IMO, that is not a boring race.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

I love it. And I buy the commercial free NBC Sports Gold coverage. At 3 billion views it is the third most watched sporting event ever behind the summer Olympics and men’s World Cup. People from 90 countries watched... 90. 111,000,000, watched the super bowl. That was BILLION if you missed it. Yes I understand the length of event effect but still... BILLION. The data supports a healthy sport.


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## Rashadabd (Sep 17, 2011)

PBL450 said:


> I love it. And I buy the commercial free NBC Sports Gold coverage. At 3 billion views it is the third most watched sporting event ever behind the summer Olympics and men’s World Cup. People from 90 countries watched... 90. 111,000,000, watched the super bowl. That was BILLION if you missed it. Yes I understand the length of event effect but still... BILLION. The data supports a healthy sport.


There’s a big difference between a healthy event and a healthy sport. Folding races and teams, withdrawing financial backers , and fan frustration with television coverage, doping allegations, and format suggest you may not be 100% correct on that. I guess my real question is does pro cycling look the same 10-15 years from now. Do we care?

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/09/us-road-racing-is-in-a-downward-spiral-what-comes-next/

https://www.outsideonline.com/2235071/death-road-riding


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## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

At least in the US, it's a niche sport. Which is OK. Just let it be what it is. It doesn't hurt that modern media offers niche sports galore. Indulge in the obscure.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Rashadabd said:


> There’s a big difference between a healthy event and a healthy sport. Folding races and teams, withdrawing financial backers , and fan frustration with television coverage, doping allegations, and format suggest you may not be 100% correct on that. I guess my real question is does pro cycling look the same 10-15 years from now. Do we care?
> 
> https://cyclingtips.com/2018/09/us-road-racing-is-in-a-downward-spiral-what-comes-next/
> 
> https://www.outsideonline.com/2235071/death-road-riding


L


Rashadabd said:


> There’s a big difference between a healthy event and a healthy sport. Folding races and teams, withdrawing financial backers , and fan frustration with television coverage, doping allegations, and format suggest you may not be 100% correct on that. I guess my real question is does pro cycling look the same 10-15 years from now. Do we care?
> 
> https://cyclingtips.com/2018/09/us-road-racing-is-in-a-downward-spiral-what-comes-next/
> 
> https://www.outsideonline.com/2235071/death-road-riding


You certainly make an important distinction and your point is a good one. The numbers on the other hand are just bits of data according to the BBC so I don’t know if it’s wrong? I don’t see US Postal or 7-11 out there? Mapei? Has cycling ever been ”stable?” It’s like climate, you can’t rationally deny climate change but you can’t rationally defend climate stability. A sports health has everything to do with elite and amateur sport IMO. The middle figures itself out. If there are lots of amateurs and the top events are healthy you should be OK. That doesn’t mean tune ups aren’t important or even essential. And maybe amateur cycling is in a tail spin? I don’t think so, but I’m no expert. The USA lens is a huge distortion lens. But who cares about the USA lens? It isn’t relevant. You see the phenomenon in soccer. I’m simply saying, from what I know of the history, cycling seems to be about the same as ever? But I’m no expert...


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## BCSaltchucker (Jul 20, 2011)

Mapei said:


> At least in the US, it's a niche sport. Which is OK. Just let it be what it is. It doesn't hurt that modern media offers niche sports galore. Indulge in the obscure.


I can only agree.

I would enjoy pro cycling just a much if it had 1/10 the money involved and only available by online streaming (uh .. which is how I have to catch my pro race viewing most of the year anyways). I enjoy the pro cyclocross scene in winter, and that has much less than 1/10 the money shoved into it than pro mens road racing.


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## KoroninK (Aug 9, 2010)

Italy doesn't have a WT team and has struggled with their Pro Conti teams and amateur racing. Spain's amateur racing took major hits due to doping scandals and the economic collapse. It's only semi recovered. Many of their races are shorter than in other European countries and for several years now it's become a fact that their riders are developing slower due to these factors. I think looking in these traditional countries for cycling would be more accurate. There are only a handful of U-23 teams in Spain most of which are in the northern part of the country. Valverde's is one of the very few in the southern part of the country.


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## troutmd (Sep 7, 2007)

robm90 said:


> All that may be true, but for example when Contador and Andy Schleck dueled it out in the mountains, the race was on the line, Now the race is decided in the transfer season when the biggest money team compiles it's roster, no hint of competition in the race, The domestiques break down all the other teams and the leader rolls up time on each mountain stage. *Just a boring race that has been no fun to watch since Wiggins won it*.


*The Fight To Save Professional Cycling From Itself*

_The difference between teams forced to scrounge for sponsors and those swimming in cash shows on the race course. Team Ineos (formerly Team Sky when its chief sponsor was Sky UK) has dominated the biggest stage races of the past decade, winning seven of the past eight Tours de France. With a massive $40 million budget, the team simply signs the best riders, puts them to work for one or two leaders and watches the wins roll in. (Team Ineos didn’t respond to a request for comment.)

Less-wealthy stage race rivals rarely bother launching attacks, knowing their riders are usually no match for top contenders (who can rake in more than $4 million a year). As a result, races have become more predictable, causing viewership to decline. NBC attracted between 200,000 and 300,000 daily U.S. viewers of the Tour de France in 2018—approximately half the audience in 2009. And while the more exciting 2019 race attracted an average of 359,000 viewers, it’s worth noting that, by comparison, the average viewership for a National Football League game last year was 15.8 million_. [Emphasis Added]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...save-the-sport

*************************

Seems the "boring race" syndrome is gaining journalist traction. One super team, i,e, the one with the deepest pockets, takes over as you describe and wins 7 out of the last 8 years. Perhaps that is why you read some many of your forum colleagues say they have dropped the full cable feed, and having a hard time watching anything about the TdF that isn't a 5 minute YouTube summary.


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## Wetworks (Aug 10, 2012)

troutmd said:


> *The Fight To Save Professional Cycling From Itself*
> 
> _The difference between teams forced to scrounge for sponsors and those swimming in cash shows on the race course. Team Ineos (formerly Team Sky when its chief sponsor was Sky UK) has dominated the biggest stage races of the past decade, winning seven of the past eight Tours de France. With a massive $40 million budget, the team simply signs the best riders, puts them to work for one or two leaders and watches the wins roll in. (Team Ineos didn’t respond to a request for comment.)
> 
> ...


While I don't disagree with the writer's overall impression as to the why, I have a bit of a problem with their use of US market statistics, particularly when the year chosen for comparison featured a sorta popular guy from Texas. Then to offer up NFL viewrship serves to reinforce that point; Americans want to see Americans. 

Off that point, I think the UCI should consider investing into the NICA/Team USA model on some level for road cycling. They certainly see significant popularity on the MTB scene from the US, I think the same would hold true if they supported road as well. At the very least it would increase interest from US investors and create geographical rivals for Euro teams/riders.


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## coldash (May 7, 2012)

Meanwhile back in the real world



> Overall TV-audiences #tdf2019 about 10% up: +20% in Belgium, +15% in France & Italy, +5% in Germany, stable in Sweden, but down in the Netherlands (-7%) & Spain (-11%). Market shares up everywhere except in Spain. #tdf #TourdeFrance #tdf19 #cycling #cyclisme #wielrennen #Paris


inrng : tour de france shorts

I guess the Colombian figures will be high as well.


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## troutmd (Sep 7, 2007)

coldash said:


> Meanwhile back in the real world
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Guess the Spanish people don't care for an English super team with a Latin winner, even though there was no FIFA World Cup this summer, hence the possible reason for inflated numbers.

Then again people throughout Western Europe were smart to stay out of the record-breaking heat and watch TV during July.


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