# Sticky  Moderators Note: Be nice to new users, even ones posting in older threads (that's how Google works)



## Coolhand

*tl/dr: Don't be a dick to new posters*.

It is ok to have a different opinion, but trolling new users is going to end badly for all of us. It stops today. For newer posters: 
It is ok to post in old threads. it is ok is post a question we have seen before. It is ok if they haven't quite posted in the correct forum. Take your PO thoughts to PO- that's what its for.

Keeping RBR going depends on all of us.


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## Benjamin Huffy

And here is a radical idea; Have forum members be nice to old forum members too..... There is no reason at all to single out new forum members for humane treatment, it should apply to all forum members. If someone starts a thread on something cycling related and someone puts up a reply making a personal comment then give them a few weeks vacation from the forum after deleting their personal smear. It's called "moderation" by the way..........


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## Sweaty Shivers

What are PO thoughts? Asking for all the newbs.


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## Lombard

Benjamin Huffy said:


> And here is a radical idea; Have forum members be nice to old forum members too..... There is no reason at all to single out new forum members for humane treatment, it should apply to all forum members. If someone starts a thread on something cycling related and someone puts up a reply making a personal comment then give them a few weeks vacation from the forum after deleting their personal smear. It's called "moderation" by the way..........


I agree with you. But this goes both ways including not shaming people for wanting new equipment.

And to be fair, quite a few of your posts border on political rants which should be saved for the P.O. section.


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## Lombard

Sweaty Shivers said:


> What are PO thoughts? Asking for all the newbs.


Politics is a contact sport. And P.O. is where the trash talk belongs, not here.


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## duriel

Some posters should be limited on rebuttal responses, everyone has a right to their opinion. If you don't agree, move on, not pile on! You don't control the world.


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## Sweaty Shivers

Lombard said:


> Politics is a contact sport. And P.O. is where the trash talk belongs, not here.


Thank You Crypt-master. 

Could someone please better-explain what PO Thoughts / PO section is for everyone? I imagine it is / was some former spoogefest where everyone felt they were popular. No listings on this site and, weird / creepy / peach cobbler-esque to have a admin / mod be recommending other forums.


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## duriel

He's not a mod/admin, really!


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## Grog McCog

Sweaty Shivers said:


> Thank You Crypt-master.
> 
> Could someone please better-explain what PO Thoughts / PO section is for everyone? I imagine it is / was some former spoogefest where everyone felt they were popular. No listings on this site and, weird / creepy / peach cobbler-esque to have a admin / mod be recommending other forums.


I take it humility isn't your strong point.

It is right here:
Politics Only

For the long-term health and survival of the forum, they should probably close down Politics Only. Only one point of view appears to be tolerated by its highly biased moderator.


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## Sweaty Shivers

Grog McCog said:


> I take it humility isn't your strong point.
> 
> It is right here:
> Politics Only
> 
> For the long-term health and survival of the forum, they should probably close down Politics Only. Only one point of view appears to be tolerated by its highly biased moderator.


Never knew that was part of this forum. 
Quick look and I wish I never found it.


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## bvber

There is a good reason why non-political forums prohibit discussions of politics / religion. I've seen examples of forums which dared such prohibition and ended up in spots where they don't like.


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## duriel

I think there is a lot of good info there, PO! If your thin of skin, stay out.


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## regan40c

duriel said:


> I think there is a lot of good info there, PO! If your thin of skin, stay out.


I've read a fair amount over there, I think "thin of skin" should be replaced with "right of center".


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## Lombard

Sweaty Shivers said:


> Thank You Crypt-master.
> 
> Could someone please better-explain what PO Thoughts / PO section is for everyone? I imagine it is / was some former spoogefest where everyone felt they were popular. No listings on this site and, weird / creepy / peach cobbler-esque to have a admin / mod be recommending other forums.


I'm not a mod, admin or even a crypt master. What gave you that idea? I'm just a lowly member.


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## Lombard

Grog McCog said:


> For the long-term health and survival of the forum, they should probably close down Politics Only.


If they did that, 90% of RBR's ad revenue would be lost.


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## Grog McCog

Sounds like they need to re-think their revenue stream.

Who knows? Maybe eliminating off-topic, highly polarizing discussions might attract new members.


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## duriel

You mean highly polarizing discussions like disk vs rim brakes? ... or CF vs bendy steel? ~~~


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## Grog McCog

Those are on-topic.

PO is run like a members-only club (or like a center-right affiliate of the DNC).


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## Lombard

Grog McCog said:


> Sounds like they need to re-think their revenue stream.


No. It's more like that's the only place that gets regular traffic anymore. Posts create revenue.


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## Grog McCog

So it's a politics chat site with a bunch of off-topic cycling sub-fora.


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## Lombard

Grog McCog said:


> So it's a politics chat site with a bunch of off-topic cycling sub-fora.


That wasn't its initial intent, but that's what it's become.


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## bvber

Lombard said:


> If they did that, 90% of RBR's ad revenue would be lost.


If they didn't have PO section to begin with, this forum may have the traffic differently and so would the revenue method. MTBR forum, where our recent new member quickly moved to, doesn't have PO section.


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## ogre

bvber said:


> MTBR forum, where our recent new member quickly moved to, doesn't have PO section.


And MTBR gets WAY more activity than this site. Kind of ironic that they have the same ownership (from what I understand).


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## Lombard

bvber said:


> If they didn't have PO section to begin with, this forum may have the traffic differently and so would the revenue method. MTBR forum, where our recent new member quickly moved to, doesn't have PO section.


I doubt this has anything to do with whether a site has a P.O. section or not.

To be clear, I belong to other types of forums including car forums. I also belong to Bike Forums which is only a bit more civil than here. Nowhere have I seen the kind of incivility as on cycling forums in general. Must be something about road cyclists. Sure, you see the same kind of arguments about motor oil on car forums that you do about chain lube here, but it never gets anywhere near as ugly.


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## tlg

Lombard said:


> Must be something about road cyclists.


I belong to other forums too.
Must be the moderators. Or lack thereof.


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## Lombard

tlg said:


> I belong to other forums too.
> Must be the moderators. Or lack thereof.


Possibly. But I don't think that's it either. Other types of forums have an occasional bad actor and things have to get really ugly for anyone to get a posting vacation much less a perma-ban. Overall, there are just a lot fewer bad actors than here. If we were to perma-ban all the bad actors here, we wouldn't have a forum left.

To be fair, moderating forums is not a full time job. If I understand correctly, most are volunteer positions that can easily be walked away from. It's a thankless job for sure.


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## Xydadx3

Lombard said:


> To be fair, moderating forums is not a full time job. If I understand correctly, most are volunteer positions that can easily be walked away from. It's a thankless job for sure.


The pay is pretty dismal, monetarily at least ($0). When there is good traffic and the forum is productive there's at least that reward. 

Over in another forum I'm on we have a moderator discussion section to share thoughts on 'problem members'. Its helpful to discuss how to deal with the few bad actors. Not sure if the moderators here have something similar or if they communicate with each other in general?


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## duriel

It takes 2 or more to "create" problem members. A little introspection may be appropriate.


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## Lombard

duriel said:


> It takes 2 or more to "create" problem members. A little introspection may be appropriate.


So you're saying that new members should just suck it up and take the dog piling as a form of initiation? Got it.


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## duriel

No, I think some of the 'honored' members should ..... ****.


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## Grog McCog

Lombard said:


> That wasn't its initial intent, but that's what it's become.


Yeah, I just don't think it is a good strategy for long-term survival. 

I think the initial idea is that people who already have a sense of community can have respectful discussions because they already know (and ideally, respect) the other participants, but at some point you get an inversion effect, and the bad conduct filters down to the on-topic forums.

The last six years or so have been extremely politically divisive; P.O. might have been a bit better suited to prior times when things were more cordial, respectful and logical.


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## velodog

I think that it's better to approach any on-line forum with a thick skin and take many of the responses with a grain of salt. Then one can separate the wheat from the chaff and decide if the forum offers what it was that one came looking for.

There's always going to be potholes to deal with.


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## Grog McCog

velodog said:


> I think that it's better to approach any on-line forum with a thick skin and take many of the responses with a grain of salt. Then one can separate the wheat from the chaff and decide if the forum offers what it was that one came looking for.
> 
> There's always going to be potholes to deal with.


I think we are being asked to remove some of the potholes, and be more welcoming so that fewer people make that decision based on a hostile, un-welcoming response.


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## bvber

Lombard said:


> I doubt this has anything to do with whether a site has a P.O. section or not.


As I've already stated on post #11, I've seen examples of non-political forums with and without political section. Yes, there is a difference in the tone of posters and eventual participation rate of members.


> To be clear, I belong to other types of forums including car forums. I also belong to Bike Forums which is only a bit more civil than here. Nowhere have I seen the kind of incivility as on cycling forums in general. Must be something about road cyclists. Sure, you see the same kind of arguments about motor oil on car forums that you do about chain lube here, but it never gets anywhere near as ugly.


It's something about people. We, apparently, cannot turn on / off our (behavioral) patterns because we are not robots. Political discussions almost always evolve into arguments and it creates animosity among people, then it spills over to non-political discussions and eventually the rest of the forum. Then the forum members start to leave and end up looking a lot like the current state of this forum.


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## azpeterb

I propose that RBR give us all participation trophies for posting here. That way nobody gets butt hurt when the haters try to roast them.


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## One Wheel

As a relatively new member, FWIW, what I've observed here is a few crotchety old men, probably lonely, who like disagreeing with anybody who will give them the opportunity. It's an entertaining aspect, if you don't take it so seriously. I'd rather have people give each other a hard time about using old bikes, or disc brakes, or knobby tires than about giving each other a hard time. Be nice, but don't be mean about other people being mean. Enjoy it.


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## Lombard

One Wheel said:


> As a relatively new member, FWIW, what I've observed here is a few crotchety old men, probably lonely, who like disagreeing with anybody who will give them the opportunity. It's an entertaining aspect, if you don't take it so seriously. I'd rather have people give each other a hard time about using old bikes, or disc brakes, or knobby tires than about giving each other a hard time. Be nice, but don't be mean about other people being mean. Enjoy it.


There is a big difference between a little light hearted teasing and the downright bullying which some members do here.


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## Retro Grouch

One Wheel said:


> As a relatively new member, FWIW, what I've observed here is a few crotchety old men, probably lonely, who like disagreeing with anybody who will give them the opportunity.


It's been this way since the RBR Podium Girls forum along with EPO and Cinelli Spinaci bars were banned


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## velodog

Retro Grouch said:


> It's been this way since the RBR Podium Girls forum along with EPO and Cinelli Spinaci bars were banned
> 
> View attachment 486295


Yep, everyone got cranky with the loss of Podium Girls.


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## azpeterb

velodog said:


> Yep, everyone got cranky with the loss of Podium Girls.


So clearly the solution to our problem with being mean to each other is this: bring Podium Girls back! 😁


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## velodog

azpeterb said:


> So clearly the solution to our problem with being mean to each other is this: bring Podium Girls back! 😁


Well, Yeah.


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## Retro Grouch

azpeterb said:


> So clearly the solution to our problem with being mean to each other is this: bring Podium Girls back! 😁


Some visual stimulation to assist with _wresting of the cyclops_ prior to posting may induce a more relaxed state, leading to less aggressive responses.


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## velodog

Retro Grouch said:


> Some visual stimulation to assist with _wresting of the cyclops_ prior to posting may induce a more relaxed state, leading to less aggressive responses.


Is there going to be a need to wipe down the monitor after this wrestle mania?


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## bvber

velodog said:


> wipe down the monitor


Right, after splattering it with coffee / tea / beer from laughing.


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