# Bikesdirect.com branding . . . my suggestion



## indygreg (Nov 5, 2006)

As should be clear to anyone who has looked around in this folder I am a big fan of my BD.com bike. I am a satisfied paid customer.

I have a Mercier, but could have just as well ended up with a Moto or a Windsor. As I understand it, these are names of older bike companies that have gone under. BD pruchased the naming rights. Though this is not expressly stated on their sites, I think it does not take too much to figure it out. I have no large issue with this - it happens in so many industries it is just part of business. A name is an asset, and assets are bought and sold all the time. 

That all said - to me I would actually prefer my bike to be branded as 'BikesDirect.com'. I might even get my decals off and get some decals cut in a color of my choice to say that. I hope Mike would not have an issue with me essentially advertising for him. 

When someone asks me about my bike, it takes two paths every time. #1 oh . . . you got it on the internet (and topics that follow from it, good and bad) and #2 yes, I understand that this bike has nothing to do with the old Mercier brand.

That all said, I am a n00b with no sence of bike history. Bikesdirect has more meaning to me than Mercier.


----------



## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

*branding*

Greg

Thanks for your suggestion.

I have thought about this a long time but still I wanted to wait till my thoughts were semi organized before I responded.

Of course, I would be honored if you had bikesdirect written on your bike. I can even get some related bikesdirect branded products if you wish. We have had lots of requests for bottles and even jerseys. I haven’t done anything yet; but I may this season.

On to your suggestion:

Michael Dell and Gary Snook {Performance} both are very successful with your idea. Brand your product the same as your site or company name. Both of these guys are smart and have very good businesses.

My approach is based on taste as much as anything else. I like the brands I own, license, and have under option. I have a long personal history and emotional attachment to many bicycle brands. 

In addition, many of these brands have a following. Motobecane is the strongest I have. Many customers just want to have a Motobecane. Also, the number of our customers in Canada, England, Australia, and New Zealand that love the Windsor name is shocking to me. Bottecchia, which I just recently licensed, has proven to ‘speak’ to many customers. And so on with Mercier, Mango, Gravity, etc.

There are even more brands that I have acquired or have option on. I am even currently working on negotiating deals on others. In the long run, I will no doubt need to either have another site to sell on or increase my dealer network. 

While I was thinking your suggestion over, a dealer of mine in California e-mailed me a picture of a display he had put up of Windsor road bikes. He was very excited about it. This dealer carries Trek, Raleigh, and so on; I do not think he would want to stock ‘bikesdirect’ branded bikes. In the long run, I may take one of my brands and go IBD only with it. As dealers become more truly ‘independent’ the market may change.

So in summary, I like the flavor of assorterd brand names, I do not want to see many great old names die in the USA, and I think my opinions are wider with choice in branding.

Of course, I could be wrong and I might be better off with one online brand named the same as my site. 

Thanks for taking the time to post on this topic

mike


----------



## indygreg (Nov 5, 2006)

*I think I might do it*

I am going to see if I can get a small sticker off of this frame without it being to obvious (too much damage to clear coat, etc). Then I will get some bd.com stickers made and put them on there. Will add some color (the thing I really wish this bike had). 

If I do it I will post pics.


----------



## JayTee (Feb 3, 2004)

Is the sticker over or under the clearcoat? If it is on top you should be able to do well with nail polish remover and no damage to paint.


----------



## WheresWaldo (Nov 29, 2005)

jtolleson said:


> Is the sticker over or under the clearcoat? If it is on top you should be able to do well with nail polish remover and no damage to paint.


 It's under, but this is some thin clearcoat. I was able to pull the decals with a fingernail and a hair dryer. Couldn't do that with the Moto. Different factory, different paint. The Motos clearcoat is much thicker and would *require *sanding. Also the Mercier fork had a much thicker coat of clear than the frame and it took quite a bit of sanding to get the decals off of it.


----------



## midlife_xs's (Jun 18, 2004)

I would like to contribute to this discussion. 

I have observed that most bikes you see both in the LBS and on internet sites except "Team Bikes" are heavier than the Motobeane SL's 15.5 lbs weight. Because of this, I just thought that you can make this particular model your pilot project by renaming it THE 15.5 LIGHTWEIGHT by bikes direct

On another note, I read that on one of your post you don't offer Titanium frame bikes because they are not points of interests nowadays as carbon fiber is the fad. I still remember that at one time the defunct Supergo was selling Ti frames around $550. They were made in the Far East yet feedbacks from buyers were good. Airborne used to sell Ti frames too for $699 but I thought in the latter years they priced themselves out of market by pricing them around $1000, - the price of a closeout base model Litespeed. My question is, do Ti frames sourced overseas cost more than carbon fiber frames? Is a 105 equipped Ti bike possible in the $1200-$1400 range? You can say that I am partial to Titanium


----------



## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

*Very Interesting*



midlife_xs's said:


> I would like to contribute to this discussion.
> 
> I have observed that most bikes you see both in the LBS and on internet sites except "Team Bikes" are heavier than the Motobeane SL's 15.5 lbs weight. Because of this, I just thought that you can make this particular model your pilot project by renaming it THE 15.5 LIGHTWEIGHT by bikes direct
> 
> On another note, I read that on one of your post you don't offer Titanium frame bikes because they are not points of interests nowadays as carbon fiber is the fad. I still remember that at one time the defunct Supergo was selling Ti frames around $550. They were made in the Far East yet feedbacks from buyers were good. Airborne used to sell Ti frames too for $699 but I thought in the latter years they priced themselves out of market by pricing them around $1000, - the price of a closeout base model Litespeed. My question is, do Ti frames sourced overseas cost more than carbon fiber frames? Is a 105 equipped Ti bike possible in the $1200-$1400 range? You can say that I am partial to Titanium


Ti frames can be sourced in China or Taiwan. I would only consider Taiwan myself although others have done well with frames from China.

I like doing niche bikes; touring, commuting, track, cyclocross, light-weight xc, 853 road, etc -- so Ti might be very nice.

I will send an e-mail to 2 different factories in exactly 10 minutes from now. I should learn something soon. 

My guess is: I can easily do a Ti road bike with 105 for $1200-$1400 and maybe an Ultegra one for that price. Depending on wheels; etc.

Thanks for the idea

What type of wheels do you like this buyer might like? I would think Ritchey DS Pro ~~ or maybe Shimano 550. Vuelta has a new 1600 gram PRO superlight that is very strong and nice looking for same price as Ritchey DS Pro or Shimano 550.

What brand would you use: Motobecane, Mercier, Bottecchia, Windsor, Dawes?

I like Ti frame ultra clean - no paint, no loud decals, just the Ti scotch-brite. I do not see the point in covering up Ti as the natural finish is very nice. What do you like?

I can use Reynolds Ouzo fork like I do on Mercier Serpens 853 bike; or just a light-weight full carbon fork with the bike brand on it? Does that matter? {lower price for lighter fork without Ouzo decal}

What about CycloCross and HT ATB? I can get those in Ti also. Interesting?

thanks agian for your idea.

mike


----------



## indygreg (Nov 5, 2006)

Update:
Stickers came off with no issue. I do not think clear coat was over them, but I guess there might have been a very thin layer. Hairdryer, fingernail, goo gone and 15 minutes and it is clean. I left the two small Mercier logos (one one seat tube and on on headtube) for now. There is no way in heck the Mercier sticker will come off the fork. It is way under clearcoat. No big deal.

I will take pics, just not tonight. I am getting ready to head to California with the family (no bike) and the camera is in the packing process. I will take pics before I get decals made.

Now . . . what to put on it?
Option #1 - Bikesdirect.com and maybe Made in Tiawan. Sort of different, funny, etc
#2 Indiana University or Ball State University (undergrad and grad)
#3 Cisco systems - what I do for a living
#4 Shimano Dura Ace (bike is full DA)
#5 Something else?


----------



## covenant (May 21, 2002)

indygreg said:


> #3 Cisco systems - what I do for a living


Being an IT guy I like that one...of course you could go ubergeek and do Linux decals.

But you'd have to grow a beard, wear sandals.....ditch the Mercier and buy a recumbent.:thumbsup:


----------



## midlife_xs's (Jun 18, 2004)

bikesdirect said:


> Ti frames can be sourced in China or Taiwan. I would only consider Taiwan myself although others have done well with frames from China.
> 
> I like doing niche bikes; touring, commuting, track, cyclocross, light-weight xc, 853 road, etc -- so Ti might be very nice.
> 
> ...


 My feeling is that the Ti frame should have 3/2.5 tubes (with decals as proof), straight and true constructon, quality-smooth welds, standard 1 1/8 headset (no hiddenset),a polished finish with an embossed headbadge. Stiffness or lack of it in the bottom bracket is what they usually complain about Ti frames, maybe a bigger downtube will not only give a semblance of a stiff bb but will serve the purpose. I know this can be done but I wouldn't know if price will still be competitive. 

As for the name, Bottecchia is the one that gave Lemond is 8 second win on the '89 Tour de France over Fignon. That should be popular here.

For wheelsets, although heavier, Shimano 550 I believe are readily acceptable than say Vuelta, just my opinion.

Reynolds Ouzo Pro even with the alloy steerer is attractive compared to a generic brand.

Cyclo-cross I know nothing about but keeps me wondering why disc brakes are not popular with them. So with touring bikes. 

Maybe Dave over at Fixed gear can give his input on a Ti frame fixie. 

My humble opinion.


----------



## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

*Thank you*



midlife_xs's said:


> My feeling is that the Ti frame should have 3/2.5 tubes (with decals as proof), straight and true constructon, quality-smooth welds, standard 1 1/8 headset (no hiddenset),a polished finish with an embossed headbadge. Stiffness or lack of it in the bottom bracket is what they usually complain about Ti frames, maybe a bigger downtube will not only give a semblance of a stiff bb but will serve the purpose. I know this can be done but I wouldn't know if price will still be competitive.
> 
> As for the name, Bottecchia is the one that gave Lemond is 8 second win on the '89 Tour de France over Fignon. That should be popular here.
> 
> ...


Thanks - this is very helpful

It makes sense

Two things that are funny to me are the Shimano 550 over Vuelta PRO SL for same cost. But some people like ball & cone over precision sealed

Reynolds fork - I like that too; but even if it is the same fork from the same factory with different decal? it is a funny biz we are in

I am also thinking MTB - as carbon fiber on hardtails makes me nervous
mike


----------



## Bertrand (Feb 1, 2005)

*Ti Frames*

May I also suggest that if you offer Ti bikes, you also offer Ti frames alone? 



bikesdirect said:


> Thanks - this is very helpful
> 
> It makes sense
> 
> ...


----------



## bikesdirect (Sep 9, 2006)

*Ti frames*



Bertrand said:


> May I also suggest that if you offer Ti bikes, you also offer Ti frames alone?



Yes - you are correct
if I can get a high grade Ti frame at a good price; I should also offer the frame only

I have been looking at other maker's offerings in Ti and the prices are insane in my opinion.
I think there is a general sense that the Ti market is such that brands can easily overcharge

In order to do this; I have to beat the other guys by over 50% - which is looking easy to do.

Should have quotes in a few days

mike


----------



## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

Allright, heretofore I have refrained from commenting regarding anything to do with Dr. Spratt or Bikesdirect.

One of the reasons is that I work for the shop in California that Mike alluded to above (allthough if there is more than one, I could be wrong.) I like my job and have the utmost respect for the owner.

A few observations and, I hope, some constructive criticism. Yes, we brought in the Windsor Trent, a phenomenal value for a well spec'd aluminum/carbon road bike. It's great to "stick it" to Performance two doors over with their Schwinn/GT and housebrand offers. And we have sold more than a few despite what I perceive to be a downturn in roadbike interest/sales and the obvious "winter dolldrums". The "Lance Factor."

First is frame geometry. The Windsor's have relatively long top tubes for the frame sizes. Contrary to what Bikesdirect says, they do not size or fit like a Trek. The critical dimension for proper fit is "effective top tube", the one "apples to apples" comparison these days with classic (i.e., level), sloping, and compact frame designs. (A note here - I do the "fitting" in our store.) As long as one has adequate "standover", it's top tube length that counts. Yes, one can adjust stem length and angle, bar reach, etc., but going to extremes can significantly effect bike handling. At 5'11", a 58cm Trek fits me great. My newly acquired Masi, a sloping top tube, is a 56cm (center to top of seat tube like the Trek) and fits me like a custom. Both the Trek and the Masi share a 57cm effective top tube.

The net result on the Windsor's is a short head tube. Plus they come with the fork steer tube cut relatively short. For an experienced road rider a handlebar 10 cm lower than saddle is fine. For somebody just getting the "road experience", it's pretty drastic. And just who is the target customer for a bike like the Windsor Trent? We've already substituted +17 degree stems to get that customer a little more "upright." Look at the growing popularity of bikes like the Trek Pilot and Specialized Roubaix. The top tubes on both those bikes slopes "up" as well as "down", all to extend the head tube length.

I generally fit a beginning road rider, whether new to the game or coming from mountain biking, with bar height close to saddle height. As they accumulate miles and flexibility, they can always lower the bar. Flipping a +17 degree stem and removing spacers on a Pilot can put one in a very "racy" position. But if that head tube and steerer are short, the options are limited and many aren't really safe (e.g., steer tube extenders.) As we say in the shop, we can make it shorter, but we can't make it longer.

Bottom line, consider sloping geometry (not compact - they have their own problems with excessively long and flexible seat posts) with longer head tubes. I resisted sloping coming from the classic "steel" days, but old dogs have to learn new tricks.

My second point also relates to the potential customer for a "value packed" road bike. By and large, the names Motobecane, Windsor, Mercier, etc. don't mean squat to them. Sure, we get the older person that says, hey, I had a Motobecane back in the day, great bike, are they still made in France? What do you think I have to tell them? Hell, my Masi was made in Taiwan. "Legacy" names are foreign (to coin a phrase) to the man or woman looking for that "bang for the buck" bike. Supergo was very successful with the horribly named "Scattante."

Finally, a quality titanium frame from Taiwan could be a winner. Just "copy" Masi's geometry.


----------

