# 2015 Defy Q&A



## marc7654 (Jun 24, 2014)

Thought it might be good to start a different thread on the 2015 Defy where we can post questions, answers, raves, problems etc.

So my first issue is a squeaky head tube on my Advanced 2. The sound is coming from the lower section, near the fork end. Turning left and right causes a squeak. It's not the cables or the tire on the floor. The sound started after my first outside ride in 40 deg F weather. It was a bit damp that day too. I had also replace the top cap with one I mount my cyclometer on. I did torque it to the right spec. I also didn't have any squeak at that point it was only after the ride and the bike had been in the house for a while.

When I ride outside in the colder temps the squeak goes away. Inside it comes back so it's some kind of temp related issue.

I could take it apart and check if there's something in there but wanted to get any feedback first. I'm a reasonably comfortable with the mechanicals of such things but again wanted some input from others first.


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## GOTA (Aug 27, 2012)

Are you sure it isn't going from the brakes? I had a mountain bike that would do that and it was rotors slightly rubbing when I turned.


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## marc7654 (Jun 24, 2014)

GOTA said:


> Are you sure it isn't going from the brakes? I had a mountain bike that would do that and it was rotors slightly rubbing when I turned.


It's very much a squeak and not a rubbing sound from the disks. Kind of like a damp sneaker on a tile floor.


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## SirBenno (Feb 2, 2005)

Could be a headset seal making a bit of noise. 
After owning my Defy for a while I have a few observations. 
-the P-SLR1 tires are very slippery in the wet. 
-the seatmast clamp is excessively heavy and the one bolt design is terrible. 
-the Zipp 202 discs are very underwhelming. 

Buhhht.... overall the bike is amazing. I wouldn't trade it for anything. It gets lots of love and attention anywhere it goes. From the snobbies to the amateurs the feedback is all positive and it fits in anywhere. 
Would I go ISP again? Meh maybe I am jaded because I am still fiddling with the fit but as of now, probably not. 
As a final note, I could never go back to rim brakes. Just like in 2002 when I first went to discs on my mountain bike. Yes that's 13 years ago.


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

What is a headset seal? And how do those squeak? 

As for the OP:

The top cap doesn't have a torque spec, so I'm not sure how you torqued it properly...
Might I ask what you torqued it to? My guess is you've damaged your headset bearings. But if you never undid or loosened the stem bolts then maybe not.

It's very possible that you're missing some grease and are having some metal to metal contact. When it gets cold and things contract, no more contact. Being out in the wet cold probably washed out some grease up there.

I'd just take the headset apart, it only takes a couple minutes, and regrease/rebuild everything. Headsets are very simple now a days, shouldn't be hard to see if anything is amiss in there.


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## marc7654 (Jun 24, 2014)

MMsRepBike said:


> The top cap doesn't have a torque spec, so I'm not sure how you torqued it properly...
> Might I ask what you torqued it to? My guess is you've damaged your headset bearings. But if you never undid or loosened the stem bolts then maybe not.


The torque specs printed on the stem are usually fine for the top cap also. I think it says 5-6Nm maybe a bit more but without the bike in front of me I'm not sure. You absolutely don't want to gorilla torque it. It just needs to take out the slack and snug things up. This bike is the aluminum steerer tube, I suspect there is a max value on the SL line with the carbon steerer tube. Numbers are nice when working on such things, learned that while building a race car a few years ago.

I haven't disassembled it yet so I'll have to see what might be in there, maybe some dirt. It wasn't too wet to wash out any grease but maybe it's lightly greased from the factory? well see. I'll post pics.

The squeak does seem to me to be carbon on carbon more than something else.


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## marc7654 (Jun 24, 2014)

OK here's the squeak http://youtu.be/Ye0dYQR5HKA
Took it apart and didn't really see anything very obvious. There are a couple of rubber seals that could be the source of the sound. Things were greased fine. Reassembled and it's not squeezing I'll have to go ride and see if it comes back.


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## Cannot (Jun 27, 2012)

My new Defy Adv Pro is very quiet so far. Didn't notice any weird sound. 

Unfortunately, I got a flat tire (rear) yesterday. I quickly changed the tube, but couldn't put the wheel back. Eventually I needed to call my wife to pick me up. I put the bike on the repair stand later evening. Finally have the wheel set up.

I have done this many times for my Defy Composite without any problems. I wasn't sure why it was more difficult than Composite, perhaps the disc, the design of the frame, or I might need more practices?  

i'd appreciate If you have any tips to share.


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## gaff (Jun 9, 2014)

having disc certainly makes rear wheel changes harder. It seems harder to get the chain around the cassette/rear mech because of the restriction due to the disc and calliper.

Perhaps there is a super-secret technique that i have yet to discover through trial an error, although i have found it easier to manoeuvre the mech and chain when the bike is upside down.


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## Cannot (Jun 27, 2012)

gaff said:


> having disc certainly makes rear wheel changes harder. It seems harder to get the chain around the cassette/rear mech because of the restriction due to the disc and calliper.
> 
> Perhaps there is a super-secret technique that i have yet to discover through trial an error, although i have found it easier to manoeuvre the mech and chain when the bike is upside down.


If the bike is upside down, will that cause the leakage (brake fluid)?


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## gaff (Jun 9, 2014)

I assume not, but would certainly like to know before I get mine!


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## marc7654 (Jun 24, 2014)

Cannot said:


> If the bike is upside down, will that cause the leakage (brake fluid)?


I don't think it would leak. However there are precautions to take because they are hydraulic brakes. If you pull on the brake lever without the disk between the pads the pads will extend and not necessarily retract. You would need to put something flat like a screwdriver between the pads to press them back into the calipers. I found this link for the dealer manual Hydraulic Disc Brake for On Road - SHIMANO Dealer's ... or just google for DM-BR0008-00 for more info.


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## Cannot (Jun 27, 2012)

The bike shop mentioned that and it came with a plastic piece so you could put between the pads.


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## machoman (Oct 10, 2014)

SirBenno said:


> -the seatmast clamp is excessively heavy and the one bolt design is terrible.


Yes - the seat clamp or seat mast is made of something metal and it is very heavy for what it is. I wonder why Giant chose to make it out of this hunk of metal - Trek has an identical single bolt design made out of carbon(?) and is probably heaps lighter. One benefit of the heavier metal though is that i could tighten the hell out of that damn single bolt seat holder. It is a terrible design - it looks cleaner but i'm always doubtful it's able to keep holding my seat angles. I've read one Trek user couldn't resolve his slipping seat angles.


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## machoman (Oct 10, 2014)

I too have a squeek when i lift my SL 1 up and turn the handlebar - i can hear a squeek when i turn it right then left at these extremes. It sounds like it's coming from underneath the head tube somewhere there......I can't hear the squeek when i'm riding though.


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## machoman (Oct 10, 2014)

The Defy Sl 1 is probably THE only road bike for me. I can't see myself getting another at my age of 51 (this year) - time is running out! But if i were to get another i would too try to steer clear from the ISP - it's quite limiting in one's ability to play with seat post lengths and i constantly worry about the thickness of the shoe soles and pedal stack heights. It also does limits severely ones ability to change saddles. ha - one benefit of the ISP is there's no slipping seat post issue. But u can't win - that damn single bolt design is a potential weakness.

Update: Saw a couple of specialized seats and thought maybe i should give them a try - I"m currently using an Adamo Attack. It's a good saddle but a touch heavy. And then i realised - drats! I've got an ISP. The Adamo Attack is quite a tall seat and the seat pole has been cut accordingly. So I won't be able to try the specialized. Another reason not to get an ISP design - if you're still experimenting with saddels - stay away from ISP until you've got your saddles worked out.


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## marc7654 (Jun 24, 2014)

machoman said:


> I too have a squeek when i lift my SL 1 up and turn the handlebar - i can hear a squeek when i turn it right then left at these extremes. It sounds like it's coming from underneath the head tube somewhere there......I can't hear the squeek when i'm riding though.


After dismantling it and ping around I may have moved some of the grease a bit and the squeak is not gone. There may have been a bit of grit in that space between the bottom of the head tube and the fork. It's a fairly tight fit.


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## marc7654 (Jun 24, 2014)

So my latest issue may be a problem with assembly of the bikes before they get to the local shop or maybe my local shop isn't as good as I'd want them to be. I want to find out if anyone else has this issue.

There is a "backup plate" that's suppose to be installed on the seat tube behind the front derailleur. Mine was missing however I got a small bag of extra parts that included both the flat and curved ones. The other extra parts look to be end caps for the cables and some blanking plugs for whenever I might convert to electronic shifting. All of the 105 (5800), Ultegra (6800) and Dura-Ace (9000) equipped bikes should have this backing plate installed. So that would include the Advanced 2 and better as well as the Defy 1 and equivalent Avail bikes.

If the plate is missing and you adjust the "support screw" you could crack your carbon frame so it's kind of an important part. Luckily it doesn't look like anyone ever adjusted it to press on my frame.

You can see it in the dealer manual http://si.shimano.com/php/download.php?file=pdf/dm/DM-FD0002-04-ENG.pdf on page 7. Also circled on the attached pics, after I installed it.

Hopefully the images attach properly.


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## machoman (Oct 10, 2014)

marc7654 said:


> So my latest issue may be a problem with assembly of the bikes before they get to the local shop or maybe my local shop isn't as good as I'd want them to be. I want to find out if anyone else has this issue.
> 
> There is a "backup plate" that's suppose to be installed on the seat tube behind the front derailleur. Mine was missing however I got a small bag of extra parts that included both the flat and curved ones. The other extra parts look to be end caps for the cables and some blanking plugs for whenever I might convert to electronic shifting. All of the 105 (5800), Ultegra (6800) and Dura-Ace (9000) equipped bikes should have this backing plate installed. So that would include the Advanced 2 and better as well as the Defy 1 and equivalent Avail bikes.
> 
> ...


My SL 1 doesn't have the support plate installed. In fact the support bolt is very embedded in and it's a few mm from coming out. So maybe i don't need it? I will try to look for the curve and straight metal backing plates in the bag but can't recall ever seeing something like these plates.


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## gaff (Jun 9, 2014)

Am I corrected that this "backing plate" is to protect the frame from a front mech adjustment screw?

in the same way that the B Screw of the rear mech pushes against the dropout in order to achieve force to create adjustment?

when it was reported, the marc765 said that their was flat and rounded versions. Why the two versions?

Are we sure that these Backing Plates are neccessary?

i don't mean to cast doubt, but such a build error en masse is a major error


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## marc7654 (Jun 24, 2014)

machoman said:


> My SL 1 doesn't have the support plate installed. In fact the support bolt is very embedded in and it's a few mm from coming out. So maybe i don't need it? I will try to look for the curve and straight metal backing plates in the bag but can't recall ever seeing something like these plates.


Yea, after I installed mine it didn't seem like I really needed the extra adjustment it gets you. I pointed out the issue for the guys at my LBS and they didn't appear to really know about this extra adjustment. I think you ought to complain to your shop and make them examine the frame for any damage.


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## marc7654 (Jun 24, 2014)

gaff said:


> Am I corrected that this "backing plate" is to protect the frame from a front mech adjustment screw?
> 
> in the same way that the B Screw of the rear mech pushes against the dropout in order to achieve force to create adjustment?
> 
> ...


Good question, I'm assuming that the "baking plate" is to protect the frame from the adjustment screw. I would think that the point force of the support bolt might be a problems against the carbon frame.

The plate may primarily be needed to compensate for not having a mounting band with the braze-on front derailleur. The adjustment bolt/screw would normally push against the band. You can see how it is suppose to work in the PDF on page 7. http://si.shimano.com/php/download.p...002-04-ENG.pdf

It may only really be needed to keep the adjustment screw from falling out. machoman
Notes that his adjustment screw was almost to fall out because there is no backing plate. Perhaps my concerns are over blown. I hope so but the plate should still be there even if it is just to keep the screw from falling out.


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## machoman (Oct 10, 2014)

marc7654 said:


> machoman
> Notes that his adjustment screw was almost to fall out because there is no backing plate.


No - i didn't mean that my support screw was about to fall out - the opposite - it's still very deep in.

here's are pics of my front derailleur - Anyway my support pin is still very deep in.....it's not coming out like i can see in your picture.

Looking at my pictures now i can see why it's called the support pin - it's not for adjustment - it's just to provide additional brace to the front derailleur, as it is not it's only attached on the one other end.....should i get my LBS to look into it? Will it be better with the support pin properly extended against the plate?

It also could look like my seat tube (where the front derailleur is) is a bit skinny and a protruding support pin may not have make much contact with the frame?


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## marc7654 (Jun 24, 2014)

machoman said:


> Anyway my support pin is still very deep in.....it's not coming out like i can see in your picture.
> ...
> .....should i get my LBS to look into it? Will it be better with the support pin properly extended against the plate?
> 
> It also could look like my seat tube (where the front derailleur is) is a bit skinny and a protruding support pin may not have make much contact with the frame?


OK yes I see what you mean now. I do think your shop should check into it. I can only go with what the Shimano manual says, and it indicates it should be installed. I think the shop should tell you why it should not be installed if they don't want to do it. They should also check with their Giant dealer about why the plate is not installed. Having it installed will do the following

1. Allow for easier and more precise adjustment of the front derailleur.
2. Provide a location for the support pin to press against for the adjustments.
3. Provide some additional support for the front derailleur. 

If the shop says the backing plate doesn't need to be there then ask them for written documentation from Giant that says so. Even it the plate isn't necessary then the pin isn't necessary and should be removed to prevent some other mechanic from trying to use it and possibly damaging the frame.


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## gaff (Jun 9, 2014)

what is the screw for?


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## Cannot (Jun 27, 2012)

Just checked mine (Advanced Pro). It came with that small metal piece.


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## AndreyT (Dec 1, 2011)

gaff said:


> what is the screw for?


The screw is there to make it easier to fine-tune the derailleur position in lateral direction. It is possible to do it without this extra screw, but this screw makes it much easier. 

You are supposed to tighten the main screw a bit, just to make it generate some friction and keep the FD in place. After that you can screw in the support screw, which will eventually bump into the seattube. Once it bumps into the seattube, screwing it in further will make the FD to gradually push away from the frame. This action is exactly what that support screw is for. Once you achieved the desired FD position, you tighten the main screw all the way. Done.


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## machoman (Oct 10, 2014)

I"ve looked inside my goody bag that came with the bike and think i can't find the metal plates. And also could my SL 1's seat tube be thinner than the advanced pros since as the advanced pros have also to accomodate a seat post (my SL 1 uses no seat post - it's an integrated).

Update - the above is no longer true - please see my below posting.


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## machoman (Oct 10, 2014)

Hey - I found the 2 metal plates in a separate tiny bag - it helps to have daylight - was able to get home earlier. I wouldn't have known what these plates were for and I doubt many mechanics also knew. I was able to fit the plate onto the seat tube (see picture). Thanks very much to Marc for the heads up. 

I'm not sure if it is psychological but i thought i detected a better solidity to the front derailleur gear changes now with the support pin installed.


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## marc7654 (Jun 24, 2014)

A couple of other people have noted that the plates are often not installed by the factory. It doesn't appear to matter which manufacturer makes the bike the plates may or may not be installed when delivered to the shop. So it's up to the bike shop to make sure they are installed as well as adjust everything properly. So tell your LBS about the issue and tell them to get on the ball or you'll find someone else to work on your bike.


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## dtm21 (Jul 15, 2014)

I've only skimmed this thread but I too have the same squeaking. The LBS looked at it last yr when I bought it and got it to go away for a day or two but its back. 

Haven't ridden it this year yet due to weather. I'm more worried about the clicking when pedaling hard but i think it may be due to a brake cable in the frame.

I also don't have that metal piece on the FD.


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## marc7654 (Jun 24, 2014)

dtm21 said:


> I've only skimmed this thread but I too have the same squeaking. The LBS looked at it last yr when I bought it and got it to go away for a day or two but its back.
> 
> Haven't ridden it this year yet due to weather. I'm more worried about the clicking when pedaling hard but i think it may be due to a brake cable in the frame.
> 
> I also don't have that metal piece on the FD.


So If you are brave and a somewhat mechanically inclined you can try taking it the steer tube apart. One possible issue I found was rubber to rubber contact on a couple of parts. The top piece, in the second pic below, has a rubber seal on the under side that could use a bit of lube. The lower bearing may have some grit between it and the fork, in first pic. Clean up the lower and lube it a little too. I'm not exactly sure what lube is bing used here but something comparable with carbon and rubber. I believe a silicone lube would work. The parts shouldn't be silicon, you can't use silicone based lube on silicone parts.

If you don't have the little metal part you should get the shop to install it. You might need to point it out in the dealer manual, it's in this thread someplace. You might have them just take apart the steer tube, clean it and lube it.

Edit to get images to maybe show up properly


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## dcontrico (Mar 8, 2015)

Hi. Back in February I got an Advanced Pro 1 and had my LBS add Di2 to it - it ended up costing me the same amount as an Advanced Pro 0 and I took that path because a) my LBS quoted a lead time that was 2 months further out; b) I really liked the red/black color combo better.

i am planning on using the bike for a Japan north-to-south tour starting in early May (about 3400 km). Now for my question:

I have an Aerus travel case. Does anyone have any experience and tips for packing the Defy into a travel case? The procedure I saw on YouTube (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qfpu1k6InsM) showed removal of the bike seat post, handlebars, and rear dérailleur. I am concerned about all of those things because of the Di2 wiring near the dérailleur, the cabling up around the handlebars and because of comments made about the seat post in this forum.

I will likely end up trying to talk through it with my LBS guys, but that means the conversation will be in Japanese and I will struggle with getting the details right.

Thanks,
Dan


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## colinfr (Nov 29, 2009)

As far as the squeaking goes, nine times out of ten, it's the rubber seal on the bottom side of the headset cap. Put some grease (Park PPL-1 works well) on the top and bottom side of the rubber seal and it almost always fixes the issue. It's a pretty common problem with the headsets used on the Defy's and TCR's. To make matters worse, they _never_ come greased from the factory.

As far as the metal plate goes, if it wasn't installed by the shop you bought the bike from, I would take it back ASAP, that's just shoddy work. The new longer "arm" on the 11sp derailleurs apply so much force that it can actually cause the front derailleur to twist, even if its been properly tightened to the braze-on tab. That backup plate is used so you can brace the front derailleur against the frame and prevent twisting. All 2015 Defy's need the curved metal plate behind the front derailleur. The new 11sp front derailleurs are definitely a lot more involved during setup, however that's no excuse for ignorance on the shop's part, you shouldn't have to find out your bike is improperly setup from a forum!
Also, just a little fyi, Shimano sells all 11sp front derailleurs with 2 different bracing plates, flat and curved, and it just depends on the shape of the tube which one you need.

Source: Mechanic at a relatively large Giant shop.


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## Perth (Apr 3, 2015)

I just pulled the trigger on the '15 Defy Advanced Pro 0.

A little history, my only other road bike is my current '06 Trek 1000, that has a few thousand miles on it. It is from an older generation, but still in ok shape. It has no value beyond using it as a commuter. (Only upgrade has been new tires)

I decided I was riding enough and my tax refund was bigger than anticipated. The dealer I went through gave me a good price considering the sticker is 4950+

I guess I have a few hours to back out, but everything I have read online (sans the squeaky seat post) and missing bracket, seems to sound like it is an awesome bike, and di2 sounds amazing.

I do a lot of hills, so the disc breaks will be nice, I guess I'll miss my 3rd cog on the front for the climbs though. Infact I always climb effortlessly, but now my cycling friends make it seem like I'll struggle on a 2x11.

Any thoughts? Any reason not to go through with this purchase?


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## machoman (Oct 10, 2014)

Actually the back plates - support pin can be installed by yourself - it's quite easy - just find it in the Giant goody bag - if the dealer hasn't removed anything - it should be there. I'll prefer to install it myself so i can optimise the position to my liking.

I have the SL1 and my headtube-fork also squek.

As for gearing climbing mountains - i'm not a strong rider so the 11-28 with compact gets me there 80-90% of the time- otherwise nothing like a short rest and it's good to go again - I do find myself grinding more than i should be spinning. I've bought some 11-32 cog and the mid cage derailleur and when it's installed i hope to be able to ride a bit easier.


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## Perth (Apr 3, 2015)

machoman said:


> As for gearing climbing mountains - i'm not a strong rider so the 11-28 with compact gets me there 80-90% of the time- otherwise nothing like a short rest and it's good to go again - I do find myself grinding more than i should be spinning. I've bought some 11-32 cog and the mid cage derailleur and when it's installed i hope to be able to ride a bit easier.


Can you link me to the cog and derailleur you bought? I guess it isn't compatible with the di2 though. I have read the 32T can be put on the di2 Ultegra, but requires Cassette, Derailleur, and di2 interface. ($400 upgrade)

Anyone here added 32T to their di2?


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## gaff (Jun 9, 2014)

You would require a GS (medium cage) dérailleur.
~$190 from Wiggle.

haven't used di2, but i assume the di2 interface you have install currently would just go into the new rear mech


You could save some money by using a 105 5800 32-11 cassette ($40)(half the the price of ultegra and about 20g heavier) & 5800 chain ($20)

so about $250 - perhaps less if you shop around


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## Rogus (Nov 10, 2010)

I put an 11-32 on my Advanced Pro 0 without changing the SS derailleur and it works fine.


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## Perth (Apr 3, 2015)

Rogus said:


> I put an 11-32 on my Advanced Pro 0 without changing the SS derailleur and it works fine.


Can you elaborate? New chain? Reprogramming?


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## Rogus (Nov 10, 2010)

Perth said:


> Can you elaborate? New chain? Reprogramming?


Off came the 11-28. On went the 11-32. Slight changes of the adjustment screws and reprograming the Di2. Done.


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## Perth (Apr 3, 2015)

Rogus said:


> Off came the 11-28. On went the 11-32. Slight changes of the adjustment screws and reprograming the Di2. Done.


Thanks for the Info.


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## jmontgomery (Jul 8, 2011)

Would it hurt the frame to use it on a hitch rack that hangs from the top tube?


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## Perth (Apr 3, 2015)

Shockingly north america is sold out of the defy advanced pro and SL line.

Seems like they didn't anticipate the demand properly.


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## Rogus (Nov 10, 2010)

jmontgomery said:


> Would it hurt the frame to use it on a hitch rack that hangs from the top tube?


A lot of people use that kind of rack with a carbon bike, but every recommendation I've read or heard from so called experts is not to do it. If you want an "interesting" discussion that's been done a few times before, post the question in the general forum. It doesn't make a difference to the discussion what brand the bike is that you have.


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