# Gererator hub peoples- learn me about gererator hubs.



## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

Advantages, disadvantages, "man I wish someone had told me this before I bought one..."

I've got battery lights now- 2 sets of niterider trail rats, and they're great, except when i forget to charge the batteries. Plus, in cold weather, the battery life isn't that great. 

soooo... 

any generator hub suggestions? anyone been able to compare a schmidt vs a shimano?


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## majura (Apr 21, 2007)

I only have experience with Shimano dynos.

Advantages:

Lights are always there
In comparison to the old tyre-driven dynamo's they're a god send and don't take require a lot of effort.
Everything is nice and simple in the hub and well sealed from the elements. Very durable.

Disadvantages: 

They are heavier than most modern LED LiIon/NimH lights
The weight is in the right place (at the hub) but it still alters the steering a little. 
They still sap pedalling power, although more efficently than the older variety. Still if you want to ride fast and want efficiency look at a new LED Li Ion light.

Things to know:

Buy a good light/lamp which will stay lit when you are stationary (eg at a traffic light). Also the more $$ you spend the brighter the lamp will be. 
The little plugs for the wires are delicate! Always stress relieve the wire (like zip-tying it somewher on the fork) where the small plugs are. They are easily damaged, but once installed are fine and out of the way.
 Don't forget you can get a rear dynamo powered light too. There are many bolt on rack and fender varieties 
Dynamo lights still aren't as bright as newer generation LED/HID's but are generally good enough for slower/moderate speeds. 

If you're in anywhere other than the EU and can't find enough parts, try bike24.com. They're in Germany but will also be able to answer you questions in English and are good reliable guys.


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## PdxMark (Feb 3, 2004)

Peter White has been a longtime supplier of all things dyno-hubby...

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/


I have two bikes with dynohubs - a shimano 3N-DH70 that I got from Peter White and an equivalent Shimano model mostly available in Europe. I love both of them. Bopth hubs are described as having Ultegra-level bearings & componentry.

Both bike have a single Busch & Muller Lumotec lights - one is an older halogen version and the other is a newer LED version - both with standlights.

Here are my thoughts.

Overall, a dynohub is the one good light system that is ALWAYS available, no matter how long your ride. I had a "smart" Niterider system that would eventually decide at random times that my battery power was too low and cut-off the light. Sometimes I'd need a light unexpectedly so that I either didn't have my battery with me or it wasn't charged. Those problems go away.

I love both dynohubs. When turned off they are basically unnoticeable with regard to drag. Contrast the Nexus-version dynohub Peter White sells. That one looks like a dog - even when turned off. The drag when turned on is basically unnoticeable at cruising speeds. On a very steep pitch of hill that I grind up each night on my way home I will sometimes turn off the light to get a little more ommph up the hill. Other than that, I'd ride a night-time century with these hubs on and probably have no distinquishable time difference with the hubs on or off. Drag is not a factor in 99% of situations.

The SON hub apparently has even lower drag. It's the gold-standard dynohub, but it has issues. I understand that its bearings can't be serviced at a regular bike shop. With its great seals the hub might go 20,000 miles before needed an overhaul, but when it does need it, you'll need to send it to Peter White. It costs about $100 more than the Shimano hub - not a big difference...

The new LED-based lights are very good. The Busch & Muller lights have very good optics, and have an LED light (the Fly, I think) that is even brighter than the Lumotecs. The 3 watt LED is quite visible from the oncoming view and outs a good patch of light on the ground. It's not Niterider bright, but the more I ride along a local MUT at night the more convinced I am that the super-bright trail-level lights aren't necessary or appropriate in most urban settings and can even be too bright in that on-coming travelers look away to avoid the brightness. You won't be able to do a 45 mph descent on one Lumotec LED light, but some dyno set-ups can use two lights and then could give you all the illumination you want.

Overall, I think dynohubs and good LED lights are the best urban commuter lighting system. A two light system could even be the best for longer rural riding, too. 

One bike include a dyno-powered rea light, too. It has a steady beam and is reasonably bright, too. I like it over the battery-powered blinkie I have on my other commuter. Again, as I ride this local MUT and amongst all our commuters here these days, I've concluded that a steady rear light is better than flashing.. but that's a topic for another thread.


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## PaulRivers (Sep 11, 2006)

buck-50 said:


> Advantages, disadvantages, "man I wish someone had told me this before I bought one..."
> 
> I've got battery lights now- 2 sets of niterider trail rats, and they're great, except when i forget to charge the batteries. Plus, in cold weather, the battery life isn't that great.
> 
> ...


Do you *have* to remove your battery from your bike to charge it?

I don't know about cold weather and I have a different light, but I solved the "forgot to change the battery" problem by putting my charger right next to where I keep my bike. I don't even take the battery off the frame - I just unhook the battery wire from the light and plug it into the charger right there. Haven't forgotten to charge the battery since.


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

PaulRivers said:


> Do you *have* to remove your battery from your bike to charge it?
> 
> I don't know about cold weather and I have a different light, but I solved the "forgot to change the battery" problem by putting my charger right next to where I keep my bike. I don't even take the battery off the frame - I just unhook the battery wire from the light and plug it into the charger right there. Haven't forgotten to charge the battery since.


Yeah, pretty much. 

My bike gets stored on the porch at home and in an unused storage space at the office. Neither have ready access to outlets...


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 20, 2007)

Yeah, what Pdx said. I have the Shimano DH71 and I`ve had zero problems with it for about 18 months. I leave mine on almost all the time, too. For me, the downfall is the amount of light I get from my 3W Lumotec (the cheapest round one). It works fine for me up to ~15 MPH and when there`s no traffic. Any faster and I start to outrun the light, a bunch of traffic and the headlights from cars kill my night vision. I ended up adding a 10W battery light to augment my little Lumotec as needed. That said, mine is probably the dimest of all dyno lights currently on the market- the E6 and the newer LED systems are supposedly much brighter. Two weeks ago I mounted an Inoled 10+ in place of old dyno light andI think I`m going to switch back. I`ll post a thread detailg that situation after I get another week or two of comparrison time. For comparisons between the Shimanos and the Sons, check Peter White and Harris`s sites. One or the other has a table showing drag from both those hubs. What it boils down to is that the better Shimanos (DH70 and DH71) produce almost identical drag to the Schmidts with the light on and a little more than the Schmidts with the light off. The lower level Shimanos show considerably more drag in all conditions. I think the Schmidts are a lot lighter and come in more drillings- AFAIK, the Shimanos are only available in 32h.


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## PdxMark (Feb 3, 2004)

rodar y rodar said:


> Yeah, what Pdx said. I have the Shimano DH71 and I`ve had zero problems with it for about 18 months. I leave mine on almost all the time, too. For me, the downfall is the amount of light I get from my 3W Lumotec (the cheapest round one). It works fine for me up to ~15 MPH and when there`s no traffic. Any faster and I start to outrun the light, a bunch of traffic and the headlights from cars kill my night vision. I ended up adding a 10W battery light to augment my little Lumotec as needed. That said, mine is probably the dimest of all dyno lights currently on the market- the E6 and the newer LED systems are supposedly much brighter.


Have you ever replaced your halogen bulb? They supposedly need to be replaced after about 100 hours of burn time. I recently replaced mine and the lighting got noticeably better.


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## asterisk (Oct 21, 2003)

I have a Shimano 3N71 that I've been commuting on for about a year now. Just to echo everyone else's comments, the drag is hardly noticeable in most situations. I usually commute on a fixed bike of one kind or another and not being able to coast makes it that much harder to notice.

I do notice my Lumotec (Fly?) halogen light can get lost when surrounded by headlights, especially if the street is wet. The stand light does a good job at stops but I usually travel with a blinky Cateye light in front as well for additional visibility to drivers. I'd go with one of the newer LED lights if I were to buy it all over again.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 20, 2007)

PdxMark said:


> Have you ever replaced your halogen bulb? They supposedly need to be replaced after about 100 hours of burn time. I recently replaced mine and the lighting got noticeably better.


No, I haven`t. Now that you mention it, I think I`ve read that before. Especially since I keep mine on night and day, I really ought to see if I can find that spare bulb that`s stashed away somewhere and maybe even start shutting it off if I don`t end up keeping the LED. Good idea- thanks.


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## PdxMark (Feb 3, 2004)

rodar y rodar said:


> No, I haven`t. Now that you mention it, I think I`ve read that before. Especially since I keep mine on night and day, I really ought to see if I can find that spare bulb that`s stashed away somewhere and maybe even start shutting it off if I don`t end up keeping the LED. Good idea- thanks.


I bet that will help. I changed mine at night. I took a brief ride in front of my house with the old bulb, went in an changed it, then went back out so I could see the difference. It was quite noticeable.

The finite life of halogen bulbs is why I turn mine off during the day. I think I also remember that you don't want to touch the bulb with your fingers. The oils in our fingers apparently do something bad to those high-temperature bulbs. I just used a plastic bag as a glove for handling the bulb.


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## JP (Feb 8, 2005)

I have a very inexpensive Shimano and a Schmidt. There is a fair amount of drag in the inexpensive Shimano but it's barely noticeable with the Schmidt. A dLumotec main is OK, and I run an E6 secondary. These have been completely obsoleted by the Supernova or the edelux which are both very bright LED's and very costly. I think Harris has the supernova for around 200, and I am going to get one soon.

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/lighting/supernova.html

RIP Sheldon.


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

Thanks, y'all! 

The consensus seems to be that the really nice Shimano dynohub is just fine and that LED lights(or fresh halogen bulbs)+generator hub=awesomeness.

Cool.


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## RandB (Mar 12, 2007)

Was on the phone with Peter White a few weeks ago. He says that the Son's far outlast the Shimano dynohubs, basically because of internal corrosion in colder climates, and are the better buy for the long run.

Also, have been looking at using the Lumotec IQ Fly light which is bright but expensive, and is an LED lamp with optics similar to the E6.


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## 2wheelie (Apr 8, 2007)

I have a Son 28 hub with a supernova e3 and I can tell you this... it was worth every penny!!! Seriously, you won't regret it. I got this setup to replace my Light & Motion ARC HID and the supernova is almost as bright. 

If almost as bright isn't good enough, check this out. 

http://www.supernova-lights.com/shop/show_product.php?products_id=107


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## mschol17 (Jun 11, 2006)

Buy a Schmidt and be happy...


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## buck-50 (Sep 20, 2005)

Believe me, I'd love to get a Schmidt- it's just hard to justify a $400 front wheel... 

Might go with the shimano to test the waters, get a schmidt if I really like the generator lights.

The one big advantage my niterider battery lights have is that I can easily switch them between bikes...


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## PaulRivers (Sep 11, 2006)

I know this is a week old, but I just remembered my other pet peeve about generator hubs - most of the time when I looked at a bike with a generator hub, the hub powered the front light, but didn't power the most important light - the rear blinky light.

The point of the generator (for me) is to always have lights that are always working and not have to remember to change batteries. Without it powering the rear light, that goal is lost. I realize you don't have to change the batteries "as often" on the back light, but it's also the light that you don't notice that the batteries are shot on. A lot of time a nearly empty set of batteries will light the light up pretty brightly for the first 30 seconds, which is all you notice it for, then dim and dissapear while you're riding the bike. Since you can't see your rear light, you don't even know that it's gone.

Anyways, it's not as much a complaint about dynamo hubs as much as a complaint about them often not powering the rear blinky light.


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## PdxMark (Feb 3, 2004)

PaulRivers said:


> I know this is a week old, but I just remembered my other pet peeve about generator hubs - most of the time when I looked at a bike with a generator hub, the hub powered the front light, but didn't power the most important light - the rear blinky light.


Dynamo-powered rear lights are certainly an option. I have one bike with the rear light powered by the dynamo, and one with a battery-powered rear. Either way works for me. Rear lights can last quite a long time on batteries, so for me it's not as critical that the rear be powered by the dynamo hub. In contrast, alot of fron light battery systems are good for just a couple hours or so. YMMV.


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## tarwheel2 (Jul 7, 2005)

I have no experience with generator lights since the ones they had when I was a kid that ran off your tires.

However, I strongly suggest you try some of the newer LED lights. I've got a Fenix L2D flashlight that puts out an incredible amount of light off two AA batteries, and it only costs about $60. The batteries are so cheap and easy to charge that I never run out. I keep a spare set in my seat bag at all times, plus a spare charger in my office just in case. Plus you can buy AA batteries just about anywhere if you get in a jam. The light with batteries only weighs about 100 grams and takes up very little space, and it has very good run times.


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## ispoke (Feb 28, 2005)

*SON 28 & 20R comparo*

The new SON 20R hub, mated with a modern LED headlight such as the Schmidt Edelux, "minimizes the disincentive" with a dynohub. I'm paraphrasing Jan Heine from the latest issue of Bicycle Quarterly. And I know this first hand since I own 3 dynohubs: SON 28 (700c), SON 28 (26" on MTB), SON 20R (700c).

At low speeds, 5-8 mph, I can feel a slight pulse in my hands (vibration transmitted from the hub) on the SON28 on 700c rims. I can't say for sure that I feel resistance at the pedal, but I suspect I do. But with a SON 20R hub I don't feel any pulse, no matter how slow a crawl, and I really don't think I ever feel any resistance while pedaling (and I use the headlight & tailllight all the time). Of course this is a subjective observation. I'm super happy with the 20R and Edelux headlight and would do it again if I had another bike.










I got disgusted with Niterider type lights after we learned the hard way that the battery must be maintained on charge, otherwise the battery will die (in the off season when it's in the closet) and then the charger dies when you hook it to a dead battery. That's over a hundred bucks in replacement cost. I've learned in recent years that a higher quality investment up front leads to more long run satisfaction. I'll bet MB1 could vouch for that.

Check out the $30 home brew LED headlight this guy made. The explanation and parts reference is in the blog comments:

https://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2008/11/georges-vo-rando-bike.html


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## rocky rode (Nov 15, 2005)

*Another point of view*

If I had only one bike that I rode in the dark and I didn't use that bike for sporty rides I'd use a dyno hub. I owned a Schmidt about 10 years ago. I ended up selling it. I ride three different bikes in the dark. They all have different rim widths so swapping the hub around between bikes is a pain. When I wanna go do a 100 miler on the weekend I don't want to haul a dyno hub around. For me battery lights are a better option, easy to move between bikes, very bright and they stay on while stopped. I don't have an issue with taking care of batteries, it's simple if you do it right. NiMh and NiCads are inexpensive to replace, when you need to as long as you buy from the right place. I have a couple of NiCads 10 years old that are still working fine. My 2 cents.


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