# Looking to step up to a new bike and need some opinions -- $800-1200



## nelliott500 (Apr 16, 2012)

Quick background, I guess. I'm about 6' and 240 lbs. Stocky build, carry around some muscle. Been riding for about a year and probably 1000 miles or so with most of those miles being within the last few months. Here's a quick picture of me for reference:










I currently own an '80s Fuji Berkeley that I've been spending more than I'd like to maintain/upgrade and I still feel like an upgrade would make a huge difference. 27-1/4 tires are just straight up big and I think a smaller 700cc would be pretty significant in maintaining speed with less resistance.

Anyway, I'm looking for a fairly entry level bike but trying not to skimp out. I've got the money, but I'm not looking to enter any races any time soon. My commute to work every day is 2.2 miles with one short climb. No big deal. However, I ride 30 miles on a local paved trail every Saturday and I try to go at least one more time during the week for at least 20 miles. First four miles have a couple small climbs here and there. On the way back, there's one sizable climb (a couple hundred meters long, ~100 feet up) that still gives me trouble, even with upgrading my pedals to Shimano clipless and buying some cycling shoes.

So, I'm looking to step it up. No more fooling around. These are the four bikes that have my eye on BikesDirect:

Windsor Fens $800 -- Lots of Shimano 105 gear, not mixed with Tiagra/Sora like I see quite a few other bikes. Price point is nice. Aluminum frame, CF fork is pretty standard. 10-year warranty on frame, 1-year on fork(?), 1-year on components.

Motobecane Vent Noir $800 -- Mixed 105/Tiagra drivetrain. Price is the same as Fens but drivetrain components are of lower grade overall. Aluminum frame, CF fork. 10-year warranty on frame, 1-year on fork(?), 1-year on components.

Windsor Knight $1000 -- Mostly Ultegra drivetrain is nice. There's a good thread on here about the 2011 model. Seems like mostly positive reviews, at least one fairly negative. Common issues are brake pads, tires, and saddle but that's probably going to be the case with all bikes in this pricepoint. 5-year warranty on all components. Lifetime on frame and fork.

Motobecane Century Comp $1200 -- SRAM Apex drivetrain. I hear mixed reviews on Shimano wheels... maybe not these in particular? I don't have enough experience to know. I'm still iffy on the carbon frame. I'm interested in its shock absorption and light weight but Motobecane only warranties the frame for a year (although they do discounted frame replacements in the event of a crash). 1-year warranty on frame and all components.

Ignoring the obvious "ride them first" tips, anything else? Comparing the Fens and Vent Noir, is there even a reason to go with the Motobecane over the Windsor since they're the same price but the Fens has a better drivetrain? I think the Vent Noir is a little bit better looking bike but that's not a huge concern to me.

Is the Windsor Knight worth the extra $200 for some Ultegra parts?

What about the carbon frame on the Century Comp? I've been seeing a lot of comments going both ways on carbon -- some people are all for it, some are completely against it and feel there's no reason to go with carbon unless you're a freak about light-weight.

I'm heading to a new LBS tomorrow to pick up a new pair of shorts and I'm going to talk to them about purchasing a bike as well, however, I'll be straight up with them and tell them I plan to make the purchase online. However, I'd be more than happy to put the bike together when I get it and bring it to them for a proper fitting and adjustment. I'd like to have them do a proper sizing first though.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I think the mid-90s are the sweet spot on COO for a bike. I've been through a few older ones like yours, I'm hoping I'm done with that. 

I'd say I trust carbon as far as I trust its manufacturer to work with carbon. I've been riding a bike with a carbon fork for over a decade, and it's fine. But, these things do have failures and recalls from time to time, so I'd be afraid to order from one of the anonymous EBay sellers. I think that the fact that the same company has a 1-year warranty on that frame vs. a 10-year warranty on their other frames would make me a little nervous, though, and in a way that it wouldn't if all their warranties were 1 year.

All my bikes predate the current generations of 105, Ultegra and Tiagra. My instinct is that 105 or Tiagra is still the best bang-for-the-buck, with 105 being a bit more refined. Give the descriptions of the hubs on these bikes a close reading - Formula loose-ball hubs are going to have you replacing your wheels in a season or so, but sealed bearing hubs are generally fine and Shimano's loose-ball hubs will last a long time too if you take care of them.

You're not going to get any faster with one of these bikes, but depending on what drivetrain you have on your old one, you may get up your hill a little easier. I still think it's worthwhile to get a new bike, it'll be a lot easier to maintain and you should have fewer failures. If your old bike doesn't fit you very well, getting one the right size will be a big improvement too. Just don't expect too much of a difference in your times.


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## nelliott500 (Apr 16, 2012)

The 1-year warranty on the carbon frame, as you pointed out, is what really concerns me. For $1200+, I'd like to think a manufacturer can stand behind their product for more than a year.

And I was pretty sure that sealed bearings should always be a better idea over loose ball. The Fens is the only one I'm unsure of. It doesn't list a bearing type, just that the hubs are aluminum. The Windsor website mentions practically nothing as well.

I have a feeling my current bike may not be precisely the right size. Based on sizing charts, I should be sitting on a 58cm just by my inseam but I know to be more accurate there's a handful of other measurements that should be taken as well as test rides.

Looks like the Motobecane Vent Noir should be a solid choice. The Windsor Knight might be one step above just because of the Ultegra components but I don't know if it's worth the extra $200. I think it will be tough to argue since I don't currently plan to participate in races, but who knows what the future holds?

I have a feeling a new bike will feel a good bit different and really help make my 30-mile ride better. I don't feel too bad after the ride other than my taint area being sore and my hands getting that numb feeling for the last 15 miles or so. I'm sure the bike isn't fitted properly since I never had it done, but I also was completely uneducated before buying the bike. I only paid $120 for it and it was completely rideable when I got it, but needed quite a bit of work since purchase.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Shimano's loose ball hubs are actually really nice. They're a little less forgiving if you really let them go, but mine have only needed a repack every couple of years and while I've replaced a few cones, I have yet to kill one. In general, if a bearing is "alloy," and they don't give a brand or describe the bearing, assume the worst.

I don't care what the size charts say. IMHO, if you have a bike in hand and it's close to the right size for you, it's better to size by comparison. Take it with you when you go to the shop tomorrow. You may learn something useful. I think that rider weight, power output, flexibility, arm length and torso center of mass all play a role in sizing. I don't want to scare you off - that just makes it very complicated to come up with an accurate, predictive algorithm. It's not too hard to tell by feel, especially when you know what "good" feels like. Then you can buy future bikes according to whether they'll let you fit them correctly based on the reach and drop you like, and you're right back to not worrying about someone else's guesses.

I'd probably put you between the Fens and the Knight. The Fens is cheaper and has more spokes, good for someone your size. The Knight has nicer bearings (probably) and mostly an Ultegra build, although it would be nice if you got the hubs and crank too. I think the biggest difference in Shimano's component groups is the shifters, which are Tiagra on the Vent Noir.

Ultimately, the bikes are more alike than different anyway. But if you're going to order a catalog bike and you think you might want Ultegra, do it now - it just gets more expensive when you get into aftermarket pricing.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

First off, kudo's to you for your intention to be upfront with your LBS about purchasing online. Your plan to get sized by them before proceeding is also a very good plan. I would add that (if possible) you may want to whittle your choices beforehand, because that way you could bring along the geo chart of your chosen bike (or bikes), allowing the LBS fitter to use it as a baseline for which test bike to fit you on. 

Regarding the specs, given your intended uses and mileage, I think the lower priced bikes are fine choices. Even Tiagra equipped bikes would be more than sufficient, IMO. You mentioned a couple of climbs, so gearing will matter, but IIRC a quick look indicated that all bikes came with triples, with rear gearing ranging from ~11-25 to ~11-32, so something to consider. Depending on how your present bike is geared, you may be able to use it as a baseline for comparison. 

Re: CF, IMO/E it's a fine frame material. All frame materials have somewhat unique characteristics and there is a possibility that CF could suffer internal damage that's not easily identified, but I've found it to be quite durable. Something for you to consider if you decide to go that route.

BTW, I'm not seeing where the Moto CF bike only as a one year warranty on the frame. I thought I saw a reference to a lifetime warranty, but could be wrong.

Lastly, IMO most (if not all) OE wheelsets aren't on a par with the price of the complete bike. This holds true in your price range and well above, so I'd say whatever bike you settle on, you'll likely be looking at a wheelset upgrade, assuming you log some miles.

Just read your second post re: numbness. Learn from this and take the necessary steps to get sized/ fitted to this next bike.


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## Squrkey (Mar 24, 2012)

I am a total cycle newb:

My recomendation is for the Motobecane Century, I think you will like the SRAM PG 1070 CASSETTE 10SP 11-32T, it is wide gearing but has the large 32 for getting up the hills. You can always change it out later with different gearing when you get stronger. 

I would recommend getting the 55CM rather than the 58CM. Like you said, you look stocky, 

I think the 58CM will stretch you out too far and then you end up with all sorts of issues. 

I used this fit calculator and am happy with the results:
Fit Calculator - Competitive Cyclist


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## Squrkey (Mar 24, 2012)

The Motobecane Century has a double SRAM Apex Aluminum 2x10, 50/34T. And I agree, it seems that it has a lifetime warranty as well.

The taint pain will subside, ensure you are wearing just padded bike shorts and nothing else under them. I have had good luck by ensuring my seat is properly adjusted height is so that I can rest my heal on the pedal at the 6 position and forward enough that I have a good fore and aft weight ratio while maintaining a decent knee over pedal position. This also relieved pressure and fatigue on my hands and wrist that causes the numbness.

If your bike is the wrong size you will not likely ever get comfortable which could discourage you from riding, or worse could cause some long term injuries.

I have had my Motobecane less than two weeks, I have 234 miles and have lost 11 lbs. With the loss of weight the hills have become easier. 

Best,

Shane


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## nelliott500 (Apr 16, 2012)

Motobecane USA | Warranty

That page says 1-year warranty on carbon frames. There's a lifetime no-fault crash warranty but that's just discounted replacement in the event that something happens. I see that the BikesDirect website says lifetime but I'm not sure who to believe. That's really why I worry about the Century. If I would regularly log 100+ miles a week, I would be less inclined to worry because the bike would see a fair bit of abuse in the first year and would give me a good idea of how well it will stand up.

The Century Comp is a double, not a triple. The other three are triples. I don't know the gearing on my current bike. I can't find much information online about it. It's a double out front and a six speed cassette.

I'm not sure I can convince myself to spend an extra $200-400 for carbon just to save a couple pounds. There's the possibility of a smoother ride as well but that would need to be tested by riding each bike which may not be possible. However, perhaps I can try a carbon bike at my LBS and see how it feels.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

But you can count, right? :wink5: Gearing on a multispeed bike isn't all that complicated. Divide the number of chainring teeth by the number of cog teeth and you have the number of times the rear wheel turns for one rotation of the crank. Differences in gear ratio as you shift tend to be on the order of 6% or 7% of whatever the gear ratio is. So the jumps, as raw numbers, get bigger in higher ratios, but what people tend to feel is proportion, so the shifts feel even. What that means is if you figure out your minimum gear is, say, 39/28 or about 1.4, it would feel like you got two or three more gears below that if you hopped on my bike, which has a 30/27 (or 1.1) low. I feel like it's easier for me to imagine the feeling in terms of how a gear shift feels to me than in terms of percentages. I'm comfortable with math, but to some extent, those are still just numbers to me, and I also know that my perceived exertion isn't super-linear. This method falls down if the bikes have different wheel sizes, because the size of the wheel effects the gear ratio too - I just leave it out because I'm lazy and find it easier. 700C and 27" are pretty close, but a mountain bike with slick tires has enough smaller a wheel to have a real effect on which gear combinations a person would use for the same speed and effort. Different crank sizes can sometimes mess things up too, but not always.

Personally, I think that the difference in materials is overrated. However, I should say I don't have saddle time on a carbon road bike, so I'm mostly comparing the different forks I've ridden. While I've demoed carbon mountain bikes, they have ginormous, low-pressure tires and while trail debris is bigger than a pea, I'm not a princess. 

I can tell if I put too much air in my tires, though. That makes a huge difference in ride comfort. Nice tires also ride smoother, although that's more subtle.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

nelliott500 said:


> Motobecane USA | Warranty
> 
> *That page says 1-year warranty on carbon frames*. There's a lifetime no-fault crash warranty but that's just discounted replacement in the event that something happens.* I see that the BikesDirect website says lifetime but I'm not sure who to believe. That's really why I worry about the Century.* If I would regularly log 100+ miles a week, I would be less inclined to worry because the bike would see a fair bit of abuse in the first year and would give me a good idea of how well it will stand up.
> 
> ...


All things considered, I think you should scratch CF off your list. You're concerned about its durability and given your intended uses it probably won't buy you much, so need to spend the extra money. If the chosen bike will take a wider tire (25c should work and maybe 28's), when the OE's wear out, go with them. That and the slightly lower PSI they allow will get you a smoother ride. 

This option solves the gearing issue as well, although (for the record) if your bike is an 80's 6 speed with an OE crankset, odds are better than good that it has something like a 52/42T chainring combo. All of your 'candidates' have lower (front) gearing which is generally better for recreational riders. At the rear, the Vent Noir has a 12-30T cassette (versus 12-25 on the Fens), so potentially an advantage there. But gearing can be changed somewhere down the road, so I wouldn't hinge a purchase on it alone. 

Of the two lower priced bikes and considering your weight, the 20/24 spoke count Vuelta's on the Moto concern me a bit, but other facets (mainly rim strength/ durability) may prove them more reliable than the wheelset offered on the Windsor, so tough call. 

As I mentioned previously, I think you should whittle your choices, visit your LBS with the chosen geo chart and get sized to a test bike. At this point, the goal is to get sizing right, tweaking fit can be done once your BD bike arrives.


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## nelliott500 (Apr 16, 2012)

Ordered the Windsor Knight. With the cost of upgrading to Ultegra from 105/Tiagra, the $200 extra is worth it.

Spoke to the new LBS I went to today about sizing and they said that most people are able to ride two sizes and that the manufacturer and a proper fitting are big factors in fit. I told them I'd bring the bike in for a proper sizing after I put it together.

Coming from Texas... maybe they'll ship it out today and I'll have it by the end of the week.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

What size did you order?

It's a little scary that they just gave you that nugget and sent you on your way. I think PJ and I were both expecting that they'd come up with some more specific advice for you, like a top tube length.

For me, it's not about whether or not a bike can be made to be comfortable for me. I also want it to handle well, which constrains the range of sizes I should ride even more. While I've yet to go through with it, I've been riding a road bike that's about a size too big for me for years, and I do think about getting a new one or migrating to a new frame from time to time. As it is, when I'm done with school and back in the working world, I think I'll make that bike the second one I cycle out, unless I find myself doing most of my competing on the road. (Then it would be the first.)

I guess since the bike's already on the way and I like to think my posts are useful and positive,  I'll finish by saying that if the size turns out to be wrong, don't wait eleven years to start thinking about a new frame. If you take a "snapshot" of a bike in any year, it always looks like there's at least okay standardization, but things do drift - look at your current bike versus a contemporary one - and the longer you wait, the more you have to overcome to make changes, and the less well the build of your bike will transfer to a new frame.


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## nelliott500 (Apr 16, 2012)

I ordered a 58cm. I think I'm a pretty regular-sized 6' guy (as in leg length, arm length, etc) and based on in-seam and height, 58cm shows up on all typical calculators that use those factors.

Comparing the geometry of Windsor and Motobecane, they're very comparable. There's only slight differences between the two 58cm bikes.

I really do appreciate all of the info. I hope to eventually be as knowledgeable as you and a few of the other members of this site. For now, I'm very much still a beginner.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

nelliott500 said:


> I ordered a 58cm. I think I'm a pretty regular-sized 6' guy (as in leg length, arm length, etc) and based on in-seam and height, 58cm shows up on all typical calculators that use those factors.
> 
> Comparing the geometry of Windsor and Motobecane, they're very comparable. There's only slight differences between the two 58cm bikes.
> 
> I really do appreciate all of the info. I hope to eventually be as knowledgeable as you and a few of the other members of this site. For now, I'm very much still a beginner.


I agree with Andrew both in regards to the LBS dropping the ball (my wording) and now looking forward and hoping that you got sizing right. Still, I'd prefer you purchased a 58 based on accurate info from a reliable fitter rather than being lucky, guessing right.

I'll go so far as to say that if the fitting doesn't go well, consider shipping the bike back, reordering and eating the shipping charges. Hopefully, it won't come to that, but if it does IMO that plan beats riding an ill fitting bike into the future.

Let us know how this goes....


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## netseraph (Mar 20, 2012)

Is anyone here think he should go with 56cm instead? 58cm is little bit risky for his size.


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## nelliott500 (Apr 16, 2012)

Thanks for the suggestion of shipping it back if the sizing is wrong.

I'll definitely update when I get the bike, put it together, and have the fitting done.


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## nelliott500 (Apr 16, 2012)

Awesome. Got my tracking number already and it's scheduled to deliver Friday. I wish UPS delivered earlier but they deliver in the late afternoon or early evening so I'll be able to get it put together but I'll have to get it fitted Saturday or Sunday.


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## Squrkey (Mar 24, 2012)

netseraph said:


> Is anyone here think he should go with 56cm instead? 58cm is little bit risky for his size.


I think the 32" stand-over height and the long reach might be a bit much. 

If it isn't the perfect size it can still be mitigated. My guess is that he will be swapping out the stem and flipping it, as well he will probably end up moving the seat forward a bit.


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## nelliott500 (Apr 16, 2012)

netseraph said:


> Is anyone here think he should go with 56cm instead? 58cm is little bit risky for his size.


How much difference can it really make? The specs are extremely close between the 56cm and 58cm:










I mean I _am_ a beginner, but with the difference being so small, I would think that with proper adjustments, that difference can be accounted for.


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## tdietz87 (Apr 19, 2011)

I'm not really sure why a 58cm sounds "risky". I'm 6'1 and rode a 58cm on every bike I tested, per the fitter, and in one instance even tried a 60cm. NEVER, not even as a possibility, did anybody mention a 56cm either before or after they measured me.

Good luck with the new bike nelliott500!


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

nelliott500 said:


> How much difference can it really make? The specs are extremely close between the 56cm and 58cm:


I notice a 10mm change in stem size. I'm also accustomed to seeing a bit bigger jumps than those above and below the 58 on that chart.

There's an okay range of stems that handle well. So I won't be too surprised if you're fine. It's more that it's a relatively high-consequence mistake in terms of extra annoyance, money spent, or riding the wrong frame for a while if you can't get it to work within that range.

I think that the degree of importance varies depending on someone's particular fit numbers, too - someone who likes particularly low bars or a particularly short reach, relative to his inseam length, is going to have more trouble getting a bike that sets up nicely. Someone closer to whatever average the bike companies are using will have less trouble.

Anyway, I hope it works out well. I'll be curious to read how you did.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

I'm not predicting further how the OP will fare with the bike he ordered in a 58cm, but just an observation...

There are some posts relating to fit that ignore an important aspect of it. Here's a hint:
_Someone essentially my height_ gets in my car, moves the drivers seat back and the rear view mirror down. One word describes why that would be. 

On my bike, that same person would raise my saddle height and shorten the stem. Given the choice of ordering their own bike, they may opt for geo with a taller head tube and shorter effective top tube, to better tailor reach/ drop to meet their requirements, without resorting to a shorter stem. 

Would either scenario work? Yes. Would the (~2cm) smaller frame work better? Probably, because odds are rider f/r weight distribution would be closer to optimal, and that's when we read the 'fits like a glove' descriptions from many here. 

IMO, sizing and fit shouldn't be about _making_ geo work. It should be about choosing the right geo for a given rider, getting sizing right, then tweaking fit (minimizing compromises) to get an optimal fit. 

Mini-rant over.


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## netseraph (Mar 20, 2012)

Marin Argenta 2010 from JensonUSA is only $739. That's steal for 105. Although, I'm not sure if you are interested in the upright position (natural fit by Marin's term).


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## nelliott500 (Apr 16, 2012)

Got the bike this afternoon and spent an hour or so putting it together. Had to play around with adjustments on the front derailleur but it seems to be working fine. That post and stem height seem to be pretty comfortable but I haven't ridden more than just around my apartment complex parking lot so I can't truly judge it yet. I believe the bars are up as high as they can go.

The front tube had a hole in it immediately which was great. Thankfully, I had already picked up a replacement yesterday so I'd have a spare. Now I need to grab another spare tomorrow before my ride but it's no big deal.

I can already tell it's lighter and rides a lot smoother than my old Fuji.

I'm going to take it for a lengthy ride tomorrow (probably 20 miles or so) to see how it feels and then I'll likely get it fitted tomorrow at the bike shop to see if there's any improvements they think they can make.

<a href="https://imgur.com/u0OSl"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/u0OSll.jpg" title="Hosted by imgur.com" alt="" /></a>


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## Squrkey (Mar 24, 2012)

Great looking bike!


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Congrats, nice looking bike!

Getting as close up to the headset as possible, I'm guessing the bike was sent with max spacers installed. For reference, it's usually ~40mm's of spacers.

Judging from the saddle height and bar drop, if you can ride the bike comfortably 'as is' I'd say you got sizing right. Still, to ensure your comfort, I think you should get fitted sooner rather than later. That should also answer the sizing question. 

Let us know how it goes tomorrow...


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## nelliott500 (Apr 16, 2012)

I'm definitely going to get it fitted tomorrow after my ride. I want to give it a good ride first so I have plenty of feedback for the bike shop when I take it in for the fitting.

And yes, the max spacers were installed out of the box.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

To my eye, the stem is installed at -6 degrees. You can flip it, and get the handlebars higher and a little closer if you want to.


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## nelliott500 (Apr 16, 2012)

How do you go about flipping the stem? The stem and fork were pre-installed and I've never done that before.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

nelliott500 said:


> How do you go about flipping the stem? The stem and fork were pre-installed and I've never done that before.


Have the LBS show you tomorrow during the fitting. Once the stem bolts and top cap are loosened, you have to pre-load the headset bearings. Not difficult, but to the uninitiated it can be a tricky process.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Since I've already got the address in my clipboard,
Park Tool Co. » ParkTool Blog » Threadless Headset Service

Getting the headset adjustment right is the main event. The stem itself should be pretty apparent. Don't kink your housings if you do it.


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## nelliott500 (Apr 16, 2012)

Seems like it's best that I don't attempt to do it on my own. I'll ask the shop about it.


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## nelliott500 (Apr 16, 2012)

Rode 20 miles today without only a little discomfort (mostly just a slight numbness in my left hand for the last half of the ride. I noticed that my body was naturally sliding forward on the seat, too.

After the ride, I played around with a few seat positions, heights, and angles and I'm hoping I nailed it down.

I may hold off on the fitting for now. I stopped by the shop before my ride to pick up a spare tube and talked to a guy about having a fitting done. He said they're pretty booked up so it would probably have to be scheduled about a week in advance. I'll be riding 30 miles tomorrow morning and I'll see how that feels. If I still have some discomfort, I'll give them a call and set up a time.

He claims 2-3 hours for a fitting but that seems like a lot of time.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

nelliott500 said:


> Rode 20 miles today without only a little discomfort (mostly just *a slight numbness in my left hand* for the last half of the ride.* I noticed that my body was naturally sliding forward on the seat*, too.
> 
> After the ride, I played around with a few seat positions, heights, and angles and I'm hoping I nailed it down.
> 
> ...


The hand numbness and sliding forward _could_ be related, but that's not necessarily so. Being just the left hand may also indicate a number of other issues (both fit and bike related), but that's getting ahead of things. 

Since you've already altered the adjustments from your ride, it's difficult to work from there, but (generally speaking) given the fit issues you describe, first thing to check for is the position of knee over pedal spindle (KOPS). If it's ahead of or over the spindle, I'd adjust saddle position back (aft) so that your knee is slightly behind (about 5mm's) the pedal spindle. If it's behind more than the 5mm's, I'd move it forward to get it there. 

Next, check for a level saddle. If it's tilted tip down, level it. If it's level, tilt it tip up _slightly_. Both of these adjustments tend to shift the riders weight back, taking pressure off the arms/ hands.

A few other 'form related' things to keep in mind. Keep your upper torso relaxed, arms slightly bent with a slightly loose grip on the bars. Change hand positions frequently and consider high quality gloves. They serve a twofold purpose. One is to quell road vibrations, the other is to protect your hands in the event of a fall. 

This is a good start, but as you build saddle time/ ride longer, there are additional things you can do to keep limber and relaxed, such as on bike exercises/ stretches.

Lastly, while it's a plus that you're taking ownership of your fit, because some fit related remedies are counter intuitive, it's equally important to know ones limits. So if you find that after a few cycles of riding/ tweaking things aren't improving or new fit issues are cropping up, it's time to schedule that fitting.

BTW, there are a number of different types and levels of fittings, so the time frame can range anywhere from a little over an hour for a standard fitting to 3+ hours for a pro fit. for most noobs, a standard fitting suffices, but if your shop is willing to do a 2-3 hour fitting at a reasonable cost, by all means go for it.


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## nelliott500 (Apr 16, 2012)

Thanks for all of the info.

And what you said is basically my plan. I'm going to feel out at least one more good ride to see how it goes. If there's still discomfort present, I'm definitely going to have a shop help me with the fitting.

I'm going to talk to them about a possible new saddle as well. I know that different saddles work better for different people and I wonder if my current one is the source of some problems.


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## Squrkey (Mar 24, 2012)

nelliott500 said:


> Rode 20 miles today without only a little discomfort (mostly just a slight numbness in my left hand for the last half of the ride. I noticed that my body was naturally sliding forward on the seat, too.


It sounds like you are in the ballpark. I would flip the stem, there are a couple of good videos on you tube which show you how. 

I was slipping forward initially as well, I moved my saddle forward in 0.5cm increments and leveled it out (it was tipped down slightly), I raised my stem, (it looks like yours is at max height so all you can do is flip it). Once I did this I concentrated on how I was fitting on the saddle and the weight I was putting on my hands. 

It took a few rides for my hands to stop getting numb, but I think it is just getting used to changing positions and gaining strength. I have started doing sit ups and that has helped as well.

I think as I ride more and get used to different positions I may end up lowering the bars again.

Oh, looking at the picture you posted you may be able to rotate your bars back, that will bring the hoods a little closer, decreasing your reach.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

nelliott500 said:


> Thanks for all of the info.
> 
> And what you said is basically my plan. I'm going to feel out at least one more good ride to see how it goes. If there's still discomfort present, I'm definitely going to have a shop help me with the fitting.
> 
> *I'm going to talk to them about a possible new saddle as well. I know that different saddles work better for different people and I wonder if my current one is the source of some problems*.


Your call, but I'd say that it's too early to assess your saddle. Your fit isn't yet dialed in and you need to get some additional time on the bike. BUT.. if you aren't yet using padded shorts or bibs, by all means go buy some.


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## nelliott500 (Apr 16, 2012)

Well, I've been using this saddle for about 6 months now. I took it off my old bike and put it on the new because the saddle that came with it is garbage. However, I guess it makes sense not to worry about it yet until the fit is accurate.

And I've been using padded shorts for a few months as well.


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## edurancex (Apr 27, 2012)

Nice looking bike.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

nelliott500 said:


> Well, I've been using this saddle for about 6 months now. I took it off my old bike and put it on the new because the saddle that came with it is garbage. However, I guess it makes sense not to worry about it yet until the fit is accurate.
> 
> And I've been using padded shorts for a few months as well.


Ah, I though the saddle in question came with your new bike, so this does change things a bit. 

But, I'm confused.

Did the saddle now installed sit and gather dust until now or have you been using it on another bike? If it's been sitting, it may never have suited you. OTOH, if you've been using it on another bike without issue, it's likely a fit related issue you're now having. 

I think you should settle on a saddle before your fitting. Preferably one you now own, have used awhile and like best.


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## nelliott500 (Apr 16, 2012)

PJ352 said:


> Ah, I though the saddle in question came with your new bike, so this does change things a bit.
> 
> But, I'm confused.
> 
> ...


I've been using that saddle for a few months now on my old bike. However, discomfort could easily have come from the saddle _or_ the bike (I'm going to fall on the latter). The one that comes with the bike looks like a Walmart special.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

nelliott500 said:


> I've been using that saddle for a few months now on my old bike. However, discomfort could easily have come from the saddle _or_ the bike (I'm going to fall on the latter). The one that comes with the bike looks like a Walmart special.


Then _probably_ fit related. If fit is off, that can definitely make a good saddle feel bad. Something you (and/ or the fitter) will have to sort out, but it might take some (saddle) time.

Keep us updated on how things go.... in the meantime, enjoy your bike!


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## nelliott500 (Apr 16, 2012)

The ride was better today. Still getting a numbness in only my left hand which is pretty weird. After 20 miles or so, I'm getting some testicular pinch or something along those lines. Not quite sure why.

I called the bike shop about scheduling a fitting and the guy on the phone said I can stop in any time and they can take a look and see if there's any small adjustments they can make or I can schedule a professional body geometry fitting that takes 2-3 hours. I think I'm just going to take the bike over to them tomorrow or Tuesday morning and see if they have any obvious adjustments. I'll give that a shot then and, if things aren't improved, I'll schedule a full fitting which is $150.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

nelliott500 said:


> The ride was better today. Still getting a numbness in only my left hand which is pretty weird. After 20 miles or so, I'm getting some testicular pinch or something along those lines. Not quite sure why.
> 
> I called the bike shop about scheduling a fitting and the guy on the phone said I can stop in any time and they can take a look and see if there's any small adjustments they can make or I can schedule a professional body geometry fitting that takes 2-3 hours. I think I'm just going to take the bike over to them tomorrow or Tuesday morning and see if they have any obvious adjustments. I'll give that a shot then and, if things aren't improved, I'll schedule a full fitting which is $150.


Given your fit issues, I agree that it's time for a real fitting. You could futz around with adjustments for the foreseeable future with varying degrees of success, so IMO it's best to opt for the fitting sooner rather than later. Be sure to take a pro-active role and detail the areas of discomfort. The more the fitter knows, the better. 

FWIW, I've read predominantly positive reviews of the BG FIT, and $150 for a 2-3 hour session is very reasonable. There are differing trains of thought on someone new to road riding investing in a pro fit, and I see both sides of the argument. As long as the standard fitting isn't really just a half hearted attempt on the LBS's part to show good will, I think that fitting will suffice until you build some saddle time.


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## nelliott500 (Apr 16, 2012)

I think my adjustments are getting better. Still a numbness in my left hand which the bike shop said could be a handful of things including just a medical issue in general that a fitting won't cure since it's only on one side. There are a few fitment issues that could potentially be the cause though. Gave me a couple tips and adjustments to try and play around with.

Rode 20 miles again today. Still numbness in my left hand (basically feels like it falls asleep). I lowered my seat and tilted the front of it up a little bit and it seems to be more comfortable with less sliding forward. I didn't have the usual "testicular pinch" feeling today either, but I could feel some pressure on what I assume are my sit bones. Not bad but something I need to get used to.

I did feel my seat might have been a bit too low so I raised it up again. Hoping to ride another 20 tomorrow morning so I'll see how that goes.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

nelliott500 said:


> I think my adjustments are getting better. Still a numbness in my left hand which the bike shop said could be a handful of things including just a medical issue in general that a fitting won't cure since it's only on one side. There are a few fitment issues that could potentially be the cause though. Gave me a couple tips and adjustments to try and play around with.
> 
> Rode 20 miles again today. Still numbness in my left hand (basically feels like it falls asleep). I lowered my seat and tilted the front of it up a little bit and it seems to be more comfortable with less sliding forward. I didn't have the usual "testicular pinch" feeling today either, but I could feel some pressure on what I assume are my sit bones. Not bad but something I need to get used to.
> 
> I did feel my seat might have been a bit too low so I raised it up again. Hoping to ride another 20 tomorrow morning so I'll see how that goes.


FWIW, lowering the saddle because of hand numbness is the wrong thing to do. I agree with your LBS that there are a number of reasons for that fit issue, but IME the reasons are _usually_ pressure caused by excessive frontal weight and/ or not changing hand position during the ride. 

Finding the cause of hand numbness can take some time (and more time if there are a combination of causes). It could range from anything from the left hood being placed slightly differently to your not riding in perfect symmetry - among other factors. The lack of symmetry would explain the problem only with your left hand. 

I think I mentioned this in an earlier post, but I'd start with checking knee over pedal position (KOPS) and adjust saddle position (most likely, aft) and leveling it (if level), tip up slightly if already level. I'd try these adjustments first, then (rather than unwrap the bar tape, adjust the left hood down slightly, re-wrap....) I'd tilt the bars so that the hoods moved slightly away from you.

I think the sore sit bones can be attributed to acclimation to road riding. Give it some (saddle) time to improve.

All that said, judging from your posts, I don't see that you've remedied the numbness to any degree, which brings me back to suggesting that fitting.


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## nelliott500 (Apr 16, 2012)

Oh, I mislead you. I didn't adjust the saddle to help with the numbness. I adjusted it just because I felt it was a little low.

I shift my left hand quite a bit during riding because it temporarily gets rid of the numbness. The guy at my LBS mentioned that lack of riding symmetry could easily be the problem. He also suggested tilting the bars down to make the tops more flat. I tried it and in just two miles, I wasn't a fan. Felt too strange. Maybe I need to give it another chance now that I've made other adjustments to the seat.

I just checked my KOPS and it seems to be right over the spindle so I pushed my saddle back a bit. I'm going to bring a wrench with me on my ride tomorrow. I'll try 10 miles with the bars how they are now and 10 miles with the bars tilted down a bit.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

nelliott500 said:


> Oh, I mislead you. I didn't adjust the saddle to help with the numbness. I adjusted it just because I felt it was a little low.
> 
> I shift my left hand quite a bit during riding because it temporarily gets rid of the numbness. The guy at my LBS mentioned that lack of riding symmetry could easily be the problem. He also suggested tilting the bars down to make the tops more flat. I tried it and in just two miles, I wasn't a fan. Felt too strange. Maybe I need to give it another chance now that I've made other adjustments to the seat.
> 
> I just checked my KOPS and it seems to be right over the spindle so I pushed my saddle back a bit. I'm going to bring a wrench with me on my ride tomorrow. I'll try 10 miles with the bars how they are now and 10 miles with the bars tilted down a bit.


Point taken re: the saddle height. I may have misled myself. 

IMO, indications are you're working with a knowledgeable fitter. He provided you with some good feedback. The reasons for the flatter hoods feeling strange may be many, with one being that the tilt extends your reach beyond your comfort zone. So if the position were to help with the numbness, you might need to resort to a shorter stem to compensate. 

Fit is all about compromises, with the goal being minimizing the number and keeping them small.

I think you're on the right track with KOPS and back a little. One bit of advice on tomorrow's ride.. keep the adjustments very small, then ride for awhile. You'll be surprised the difference a few mm's will make.


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