# Congrats to Kayle EPOgrande



## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Former pro racer and convicted doper, witness intimidater, and allound a-hole Kayle Leogrande took the 35-39 national criterium title. 

The short version of his doping suspension is that as a pro he doped for years and, when panicked about a surprise test, confessed to a soigneur. She went public and LeoGrande did everything he could to intimidate and destroy her, including suing her for defamation. Of course, this innocent victim prevailed against the guilty a-hole. 

Now he's back racing masters, doped to the gills(?), and winning national titles. Video here: https://twitter.com/search?q=kayle leogrande&src=typd

My friends say that LeoGrande sat comfortably at the front of the race all night and then won the sprint with ease to the sound of boo's and shouts of "DOPER" from the crowd.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

https://www.facebook.com/Teamsurfci...976704492108/1021975587825553/?type=1&theater










_Dope!_


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

_Leogrande confided he had used testosterone gel, taken EPO and put soap on his wrist prior to entering the July 26 doping control, hoping that by urinating on the soap, it would “f— up the test.”_

Read more at Kayle Leogrande suspended - VeloNews.com





_The next day she reported Kayle’s admission to team director Frankie Andreu, who reported it to USADA. A month later, frustrated that Kayle was still racing, Suzanne made her own report to the USADA, hoping that Kayle would be suspended sooner. “I knew Kayle,” she says, “and I knew it was going to be a fight.”
,,,

An enraged Kayle filed an immediate defamation suit against Matt and Suzanne. And although he would eventually be proven to be just the sort of doper Suzanne had decreed him to be, he still went after her with all the legal might he could muster. The suit would become an arbitration lasting nearly one year._

Shades of Gray: The Suzanne Sonye Story - Women's Adventure Magazine


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

I wonder if Papp is still his supplier. Both of them seem to be completely unrepentant.

But:
_"Travis Tygart, CEO of USADA, claims that without Leogrande's admission to Sonye, the USADA case against Lance Armstrong may have never happened."_ -Wikipedia

There you go, I tied it back to Lance. Kayle certainly learned from the Lance playbook.


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

Er... Kayle Leogrande has no place in cycling. Wanna start a witch-hunt?


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## MMsRepBike (Apr 1, 2014)

Waste of life. Should get cancer soon. We can hope anyway.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Alaska Mike said:


> I wonder if Papp is still his supplier. Both of them seem to be completely unrepentant.
> 
> But:
> _"Travis Tygart, CEO of USADA, claims that without Leogrande's admission to Sonye, the USADA case against Lance Armstrong may have never happened."_ -Wikipedia
> ...


It's true. There's some connection. But even after rereading and article on it I do not understand if there is a direct link. 

EPOgrande said to the feds, "Yes, Armstrong probably takes drugs" -- Is that all? 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/18/s...d-to-lance-armstrongs-eventual-fall.html?_r=0


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

Local Hero said:


> It's true. There's some connection. But even after rereading and article on it I do not understand if there is a direct link.
> 
> EPOgrande said to the feds, "Yes, Armstrong probably takes drugs" -- Is that all?
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/18/s...d-to-lance-armstrongs-eventual-fall.html?_r=0


The EPO in Leogrande's fridge leads to Novitsky's involvement. He joined the dots that led to Lance, the most important dot being Tyler Hamilton, who was in 'rehab' at Rock Racing. Walsh outlines where Leogrande fits into the picture in his book 'Seven Deadly Sins' pp 370-375. Papp didn't supply Armstrong, since Lance didn't move in those low rent circles. There is no 'direct' link, there didn't have to be. The NYT piece largely summarises what Walsh and Macur were saying.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Is it that Novitzky would not have gone after dopers at all if not for the dope left in EPOgrande's fridge?


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## sir duke (Mar 24, 2006)

Local Hero said:


> Is it that Novitzky would not have gone after dopers at all if not for the dope left in EPOgrande's fridge?


That's the inference Walsh makes. Leogrande didn't help matters by taking up litigation against his former soigneur. Leogrande was a contemporary of Hamilton at Rock Racing, Novitsky had heard the stories about RR and presumably wanted to hear more. The prospect of getting Hamilton and possibly other big fish made Novitsky's interest in RR something worth pursuing. You could argue that Leogrande was the white rabbit and he chose to follow him up the food chain.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

EPOgrande's writeup:

2015 National Criterium Champion - Cycling Illustrated Cycling News, Competitive Cycling Photos, Racing Scores and Daily Analysis


He discusses the euphoria and ease of racing in godmode: 

_I started the season with ambitions of being consistent and having fun. Only being able to do 5 masters races this year, I knew I’d be ready to rock, and I won 4 out of the 5. 
...
[Racing P1/2] My consistency earned me 2nd place in the SoCal cup for the year, which is a testament to my method of racing.
...
It’s a great feeling to be able to win any race nowadays with so many great athletes racing, let alone one that’s so highly sought after like this one. _


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## Doctor Falsetti (Sep 24, 2010)

Local Hero said:


> He discusses the euphoria and ease of racing doped the the gills in EPO godmode:


Fat guy, from the beach, going to 6,000 feet and dominating......yeah, that is normal.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

https://twitter.com/TheRaceRadio/status/642912177754624000

That crit was not tested. 

A couple of my friends won their crits at masters nats. They were not tested either.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

I've come to know some of the surf city guys a little bit this season. I really respect Cheron and a couple others that routinely kick my ass. So it was always weird to see them hanging out/warming up etc...just out of place. I really hope the dudes I know and race against are clean as I'm sure they are.


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## shermes (Jul 26, 2008)

woodys737 said:


> I've come to know some of the surf city guys a little bit this season. I really respect Cheron and a couple others that routinely kick my ass. So it was always weird to see them hanging out/warming up etc...just out of place. I really hope the dudes I know and race against are clean as I'm sure they are.


I was thinking the same thing, Charon doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would dope or want to be on a team with dopers. I believe Richard Meeker wanted to join the team when he came back but they wouldn't let him. Charon has beat Kayle in more than a few sprints so who knows. I don't know Charon personally but he seems like an honest guy.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

One of my best results this season was placing second to Charon in a big race. (Similarly, one of my best results last year was placing second to Phil Tinstman.) I agree that Charon is an honest racer -- the kind of guy who to whom I feel OK losing. It's like, "Yup, he beat me fair and square." I'd hate to think he's dirty. But this isn't really about him. Charon can be a good guy and have a dirty teammate. Or maybe they're both dirty. Who knows? 


Meeker wouldn't even race with Charon and those guys -- he's over a decade older. What doesn't make sense to me is Seth Davidson's railing against Meeker saying, "get caught doping and don't race masters -- race with the pros" but not leveling the same reasoning against EPOgrande.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

Yeah sorry. Didn't mean to get Charon mixed in. I fully feel he's clean and I just like the guy for so many reasons. 

You're a badass if your close to Charon and/or Phil. Were they 1/2 or masters races?


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## shermes (Jul 26, 2008)

Local Hero said:


> One of my best results this season was placing second to Charon in a big race. (Similarly, one of my best results last year was placing second to Phil Tinstman.) I agree that Charon is an honest racer -- the kind of guy who to whom I feel OK losing. It's like, "Yup, he beat me fair and square." I'd hate to think he's dirty. But this isn't really about him. Charon can be a good guy and have a dirty teammate. Or maybe they're both dirty. Who knows?
> 
> 
> Meeker wouldn't even race with Charon and those guys -- he's over a decade older. What doesn't make sense to me is Seth Davidson's railing against Meeker saying, "get caught doping and don't race masters -- race with the pros" but not leveling the same reasoning against EPOgrande.



If you don't mind me asking who do you race for? I understand if you don't what to give out that info and or mention the team name in the doping forum.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Given LeoGrande's history of suing people I'd rather not say. I'll just say that I'm an average schmo.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

Local Hero said:


> What doesn't make sense to me is Seth Davidson's railing against Meeker saying, "get caught doping and don't race masters -- race with the pros" but not leveling the same reasoning against EPOgrande.


That struck me as odd, too, so I asked Seth about it. He said he believes "ex-dopers" can race if they've served their suspensions- to include Kayle and Meeker. Doesn't mean they have to be held up as shining examples or welcomed back with open arms.

Still, I found the disparity odd. Kayle is racing for the team Meeker was turned down by (but still signed up under). Maybe Seth thinks that Kayle is truly sorry for what he did and Meeker is still unrepentant. Maybe he's trusting in Charon and the rest of Surf City. Maybe he's just tired of pointing out the obvious, because he told me that he thinks the biggest dopers aren't at the top, but in the rank and file. 

To be honest, I really have no idea for the difference in treatment. I asked, that was the answer he gave me, and the rest is pure conjecture.

With the consolidation of SoCal teams this year, it's probably not in Seth's best interests to poke at Leogrande like he did at Meeker, but it's never stopped him in the past. It's one of the reasons I like him.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Alaska Mike said:


> That struck me as odd, too, so I asked Seth about it. He said he believes "ex-dopers" can race if they've served their suspensions- to include Kayle and Meeker. Doesn't mean they have to be held up as shining examples or welcomed back with open arms.
> 
> Still, I found the disparity odd. Kayle is racing for the team Meeker was turned down by (but still signed up under). Maybe Seth thinks that Kayle is truly sorry for what he did and Meeker is still unrepentant. Maybe he's trusting in Charon and the rest of Surf City. Maybe he's just tired of pointing out the obvious, because he told me that he thinks the biggest dopers aren't at the top, but in the rank and file.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you asked. 

"Professional Doper Returns to Win Masters Nationals"

Suspicious? 

Given his history of attacking dopers, it seems that Seth Davidson would be all over that if it were not a teammate. But last I checked on his blog there isn't a post, positive or negative. Crickets. Maybe Seth has seen how the higher ups at SCC have treated those who dare to speak out against EPOgrande.


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

Like I said, I don't know.

Kayle made some incredibly Lance-esque moves. How much of that was out of desperation, his true nature, or under orders from Ball and the rest of those idiots... I don't know. I don't know if he truly regrets his actions. Don't know the guy, and likely won't ever meet him.

By what I've read, he has benefited from his former PED use, and likely still has adaptations from them. To what degree, I don't know. In that context, once a doper, always a doper.

I'm not saying Seth is keeping quiet to avoid being put into the ditch. He may recognize no good can come from a rant about a former doper who is prominent member of a team in a region where there are fewer teams than there once were. Less teams can mean fewer races. He might have run the cost-benefit analysis and decided that it just wasn't worth it.

Again, I have no idea, and am just making this up as I go along.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

I've ridden with Charon on one occassion in the Santa Monica Mountains. IMO he's a sprinter, built like a sprinter, and but he's also a natural. Not a doper IMO. I just think his body is natural genetics. But who knows right. Shame that Charon is on the same team as a known doper. Personally I don't like team Surf City, I think more than a few guys on it are dirty though.

ah just chiming in my .02 since you guys mentioned Charon and I rode with him in the mountains once, other than than I have low to zero interest in the races at this level, don't follow, don't care


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## Alaska Mike (Sep 28, 2008)

aclinjury said:


> ...I have low to zero interest in the races at this level, don't follow, don't care


You and 99.9999999999% of the population. Take away a decimal place, and you'll have the number for pro cycling.

I do have a passing interest in how doping is viewed in the amateur cycling world, because that's the sandbox that I play in. I still maintain a childish notion of the best man winning and all of that crap, even though it's pure delusion.


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

Alaska Mike said:


> You and 99.9999999999% of the population. Take away a decimal place, and you'll have the number for pro cycling.
> 
> I do have a passing interest in how doping is viewed in the amateur cycling world, because that's the sandbox that I play in. I still maintain a childish notion of the best man winning and all of that crap, even though it's pure delusion.


"best man wins" only exists at the middle school level. But once you get to the highschool level, especially in football and baseball, they starts to ponder into the doping world. By college levels, you can bet 9/10 guys at least looked into it and half done it at some point.

In cycling at the Masters levels, where there is a mix of true amateurs and ex-pro competing for what's left of life, well then even the amatueurs is now soiled and tempted by the dirty pros. That is why I have no interest in them. Besides, most of these guys when they ride all they talk about is "how I did this, how I did that" in so and so races. It's like they want you to know how good or close they could be.. could of, would of.. very boring stories.


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