# TdF'15 - Stage 10 - Discussion and Spoilers.



## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

​
*Stage 10:* Tarbes - La Pierre-Saint-Martin, 167km

After nine eventful but mostly flat stages in the Low Countries and the Atlantic coast of France - things get real today in The Pyrenees, the mountain range that divides France from Spain in the South. 

The Sprinters will be looking in the rearview towards the glory that could have been, while the climbers - the mountain goats of Le Tour - see nothing but possibilities ahead. It is here in the mountains that the true GC contenders will announce themselves, where the legs will do the talking and the "Big Four" or "Big Five" will probably be whittled down to the Big Three - those three riders that will probably be battling it out for the top three steps in Paris.

Quintana and Nibali must come out swinging to make up losses, while Froome, Tejay and Conti will watch each other - and test each other - while trying to keep the podium out of reach for Quintana and Nibali. Here's what Froomie is saying about Quintana and Nibali:

“I wouldn’t say it’s impossible to change things, it’s a long race, there’s a long way to go, and we haven’t eve hit the mountains. I expect Nairo Quintana to start trying to gain time, but if you’re one of those big GC contenders and you’re losing time on an almost daily basis, it has to be quite a negative thing within the team and morale can’t be good," said Froome.

“I think lot of people expected Nibali to make up a lot of time on the other rivals in this first week, as opposed to Quintana where we expected him to make time in the mountains. So I expect Quintana will be the person to look out for in this part in the race. I’m in an extremely privileged position.” - Cyclingnews.com

*GC Standings after Stage Nine:*
1. Christopher Froome (Sky) 
2. Tejay Van Garderen (BMC) 0:00:12 
3. Greg Van Avermaet (BMC) 0:00:27 
4. Peter Sagan (Tinkoff-Saxo) 0:00:38 
5. Alberto Contador (Tinkoff-Saxo) 0:01:03 
6. Rigoberto Uran (Etixx - Quick-Step) 0:01:18 
7. Alejandro Valverde (Movistar) 0:01:50 
8. Geraint Thomas (Sky) 0:01:52 
9. Nairo Quintana (Movistar) 0:01:59 
10. Zdenek Stybar (Etixx - Quick-Step)
13. Vincenzo Nibali (Astana) 0:02:22 

Sky and Froome have Yellow and thus we can expect the familiar view of Sky leading the peloton up the mountains with Saxo and BMC in their train. The attacks are to be expected from the foot of the Col de Soudat and sprinkled all the way up this beyond category heartbreaker. 

Who will attack first? Who will sustain? Who will not be able to follow? This climb is the first real test of the contenders and could prove pivotal in the standings.

*Stage 10 Profile:*








Home - Tour de France 2015


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

No predictions. This will be the first real test for Contador, Quintana and even Uran, and their teams, to see if they can close the gap on Froome. If they can in a meaningful way, then a race is on. If not, it doesn't bode well for them the next two days, which will be even more demanding for the climbers. Losing Basso surely hurt Tinkoff and Contador's chances. Can they do it? Can Teejay hang in there in the mountains? Froome's and Team Sky's challenge is to maintain or widen Froome's lead. Should be revealing.


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## Skewer (Sep 13, 2011)

I pick Sagan to win this stage.


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## stevesbike (Jun 3, 2002)

Lots of teams with GC hopes have multiple riders in the top 20, so they should start sending guys up the road (e.g., Kreuziger, Valverde) while letting their GC guys sit in on Froome and make Sky cover the attacks in the hope of eventually isolating Froome. Will be interesting to see whether they start this tomorrow or wait for stage 12.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Tomorrow the route may see some exceptional displays by the crowd lining the course at various points. Tomorrow is _La Fête nationale_ in France, aka Bastille Day.

Here's a good detailed graphic of the final climb to the finish. This will be the first time this climb has been part of the TdF, and a first time for the village of Pierre Saint Martin to host the end of a stage. Should be quite a festive end to the day. 










In 2007 the climb from the other direction, from the Spanish side, was part of stage 16.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

ibericb said:


> Tomorrow the route may see some exceptional displays by the crowd lining the course at various points. Tomorrow is _La Fête nationale_ in France, aka Bastille Day.
> 
> Here's a good detailed graphic of the final climb to the finish. This will be the first time this climb has been part of the TdF, and a first time for the village of Pierre Saint Martin to host the end of a stage. Should be quite a festive end to the day.
> 
> ...


that's a long @ss way home from the steep part. Unless the group is really small (not a single team mate in sight) and there's some tailwind it will be a difficult attack.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

Froome is going to try to make a statement this first stage. Quintana will likely be able to hang with him, if not better him. Contador will hopefully hang on, but I think he's still somewhat spent from the Giro. Nibali seems like he's already defeated mentally. I actually think he won't finish in Paris. Don't know how Tejay will do, but he is looking good. 
The unknown to me is Quintana. I think he has it in him to win the whole thing. There is so much climbing that he has so many chances to put time into Froome. Contador won't have enough, I'm afraid, to win the Tour. I do think he will get better as the race goes on and the other tire and get more to his level, but I only see him barely making the podium. Props to him for trying the double though. I love that he just wants to win everything he's in!
Tomorrow will be interesting. Bring it on!


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

From 2013, Stage 15 - Mont Ventoux. Froome and Quintana battle it out. Pick it up at ~ 5:00 mins at the 2 km flag, then watch what Froome does at ~ 6:50 into the video. Wonder if we'll see something similar tomorrow?


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

Look, people - there is a whatever - easter egg - hidden in this route.
Consider this:
the TdF can be won by cracking major time on ONLY one mountain stage (plus holding your liquor throughout the rest).
There are two ways to win a major mountain stage:
[okay, a third comes to mind, but that gets me banished to doping thread.]
Go up the mountain at about the SAME speed as the other leaders, but be ahead of them the entire way - by one second or one minute,
-or-
get up the mountain faster.

The first sounds easier: get up the mountain just as fast as the other guy, but get to the base first.

how to do this on Bastille day:
it is all fun and games until the sprint points at trois-villes - at 124/167km.
It is an uphill/false-flat sprint - thus requiring someone with legs.
Someone will sprint away to get those points.
this is followed by a modest quatre categorie climb 6 miles later;
then, you have 10 miles to the base of La Pierre Saint Martin.

You could make a desperate break to win the ENTIRE TdF beginning on the downhill at Mauleon Licharre, sustain the lead on the uphill to the sprint and climb points, then hold the lead when arriving at Saint Martin.

Then, with the advantage, go up the mountain just as fast as your competitor - no need to go faster than your opponent.

So, in short, you expend GREAT energy on the small stuff, and pace rivals (behind you) on the big stuff.

I predict explosions after the climb at Vielleseggure but before peak of Cote de Montory.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

*Oh - with Skewer, I predict Sagan. He at least can pull off Step One.*

Oh - with Skewer, I predict Sagan. He at least can pull off Step One.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Brilliant, but, respectively, NFW. 

What you're suggesting is similar to what happened several times last week. A small group would attack early, establish a 2+ minute gap, make the sprints and climbs, then around 10-12 km from the end get reeled back in by the peloton leaders and get buried in the back. It would take a good team that the rest would let go, and one that could sustain the lead up that final climb.

As far as sustaining the lead such up Col de Soudet into La Pierre-Saint-Martin, look at the gap Froome opened over Quintana in the last ~ 1.5 km of Mont Ventoux in 2013. That was on a ca. 10% grade. 

My prediction - another early attack between 30 and 40 km by those chasing polka dots to get the points for Col de Bougarber and Col de Viellesegure, that gets gobbled somewhere between just ahead of the sprint and Col de Montory, or just after Col de Montory around Arette. The the peloton leaders work their magic and the battle up Col de Soudet ensues.

Will Conti show some legs, or is he dead? Can Quintana hang with Froome this year, or even beat him? And what about Teejay - does he have the stuff when for the major climbs? Don't overlook Etixx and Uran, at least not quite yet. Today should be a good preview of more fun to come, especially the next two days.


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## QuiQuaeQuod (Jan 24, 2003)

burgrat said:


> Don't know how Tejay will do...


Neither do I, and more importantly I don't think the team knows... or fully believes yet. The TTT gave them confidence in the team, now they need the level of confidence in their leader that will get them to do more than they ever have before.

If I had money on Froome, I would be happy to date, and feel good about getting the pay off at the end. The rider I see who has a chance at him is Tejay, and I don't think it's that great of a chance. The others, I've seen ****** in the armor.

But of course, anyone who has followed stage racing knows to doubt the day after the rest day... because someone always has a bad time.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

QuiQuaeQuod said:


> ...
> But of course, anyone who has followed stage racing knows to doubt the day after the rest day... because someone always has a bad time.


And then there are the crashes.


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## joeinchi (Sep 24, 2010)

Yes, luck can change everything in a second.

The Mt Ventoux clip reminds everyone of where Froome's strength lies and he pulled a similar move to claim the Dauphine title last month. So my guess is that any attack on the final climb will happen well before the 1.5K mark.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

ibericb said:


> Tomorrow the route may see some exceptional displays by the crowd lining the course at various points. Tomorrow is _La Fête nationale_ in France, aka Bastille Day.
> 
> Here's a good detailed graphic of the final climb to the finish. This will be the first time this climb has been part of the TdF, and a first time for the village of Pierre Saint Martin to host the end of a stage. Should be quite a festive end to the day.
> 
> ...


Yikes! I mixed up stages 10 & 11. Today's stage sure has a nasty kick in the tail. Doesn't look so good for an attack, except for a late attack on the last red section to gap whoever is in the mix.


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## burgrat (Nov 18, 2005)

NBC is doing a marathon of commercials before the climb. I seems like 15 minutes straight. I understand the need in order to do commercial-free for the finish, but this is ridiculous. I'm glad I have Eurosport on the laptop.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Another reason to DVR it - fast-forward through all that crap and get back to the action!

Sadly, due to work obligations, I have no choice but to DVR it. :cryin:


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Checking the Live feed on Cyclingnews.com when I have a chance - they are climbing and riders are dropping off the back like flies in a Raid factory! It's getting good!


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Nibali, J-Rod, Pinot and Uran have dropped...


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Valverde attempting to soften up Froomie for a attack from Quintana, but Thomas is reeling him back...


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

valverde isolating froome very well - well-played


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Gods I wish I could be watching this, I should have called in sick!


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Contador cracks!


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

everyone has been skulking and waiting to see what froome will do.
and this is what you get.
as someone has recently posted: you have to go for it.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Froomie is just pulling away from all his rivals - hearts are being broken!


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## joeinchi (Sep 24, 2010)

Holy sh!t! Froome is the man.


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## LostViking (Jul 18, 2008)

Superhuman ride by Froomie - made the best climbers in the business look like they were standing still!

And Porte is catching Quintana....Sky #1 and #2 on the day?!


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## joeinchi (Sep 24, 2010)

Yes, Sky 1-2 finish. Crushing blow for NQ et al.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

That finish by Froome was superhuman. Incredible, almost. Porte, too, did an impressive job jumping Quintana.

Looks like Nibali, Uran and Conti are largely done, and Teejay is in some trouble. Still, a lot of race to go.


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## phoehn9111 (May 11, 2005)

Gutted. Indeed.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

ibericb said:


> That finish by Froome was superhuman. Incredible, almost. Porte, too, did an impressive job jumping Quintana.
> 
> Looks like Nibali, Uran and Conti are largely done, and Teejay is in some trouble. Still, a lot of race to go.



I remember seeing a mountain stage that dominant.

Funny that that day it was Floyd Landis that day...and not much later he was found doped to the gills.


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## Corsaire (Jun 2, 2006)

LostViking said:


> Superhuman ride by Froomie - made the best climbers in the business look like they were standing still!
> 
> And Porte is catching Quintana....Sky #1 and #2 on the day?!


Talking real. Superhuman is the word, and attached to that *super doped* too. No doubt Sky has the best juice in the pro peloton. Contador is just confirminng what transpsired in Stage 3, he just doesn't have it for this tour, the Giro undid him, obviously a blood transfusion prior to this stage would've helped him, but perhaps that didn't even help.
Quintana seems the best poised for 2nd place, Nibali, ciao, ciao bambino!
3rd place is for grabs, but then again anything can happen, we'll see.
Barring some accident or major failure by Froome, very doubtful, he is in the happy position to be the winner.


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## troutmd (Sep 7, 2007)

Too good to be true?


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

troutmd said:


> Too good to be true?


Can we dub Sky "UK Postal"?


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Marc said:


> I remember seeing a mountain stage that dominant.
> 
> Funny that that day it was Floyd Landis that day...and not much later he was found doped to the gills.


to help your leaky memory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCRhzrSRA0
that was an attack 120 km out. bridge to the breakaway. drop them and win by 5 minutes.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

troutmd said:


> Too good to be true?


Yes. And to have the energy to lift his hands in the air at the finish. One would think he would be so wiped that there was no letting go of those handlebars. If he wasn't riding against the best in the world, I would say he had a great day, but this was too far out there.


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## Corsaire (Jun 2, 2006)

Marc said:


> Can we dub Sky "UK Postal"?


UK Postal, how appropriate!


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## troutmd (Sep 7, 2007)

Corsaire said:


> UK Postal, how appropriate!


Now that's a Discovery


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Corsaire said:


> UK Postal, how appropriate!


one would think new material would have emerged the last two years.


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## Skewer (Sep 13, 2011)

Game over. Froome is the TDF champion.


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## phoehn9111 (May 11, 2005)

Nope, Sorry to disappoint.
What you saw there was the new reality of the peloton.
Real Deal. I had hoped that this forum could steer clear
of the usual nay sayers and innuendo hearsay starters,
if only for the sake of the form of the thing.
But go ahead. Ruin everything, sling mud everywhere
introduce dark conspiracies. What I see indicates a cleaner
peloton. If you're not getting that, please look closer.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

phoehn9111 said:


> Nope, Sorry to disappoint.
> What you saw there was the new reality of the peloton.
> Real Deal. I had hoped that this forum could steer clear
> of the usual nay sayers and innuendo hearsay starters,
> ...


LOL...yea right.


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## Corsaire (Jun 2, 2006)

phoehn9111 said:


> Nope, Sorry to disappoint.
> What you saw there was the new reality of the peloton.
> Real Deal. I had hoped that this forum could steer clear
> of the usual nay sayers and innuendo hearsay starters,
> ...


OK, Santa Claus is real and so it is the Tooth Fairy. Happy now?


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## phoehn9111 (May 11, 2005)

I get it. I get it already. You are infinitely wise.
What I see is the GC guys faltering, Froome asserting
himself just like 2013. I sincerely believe the new
controls have created a cleaner peloton, especially
the GC guys. This forum is for those who are celebrating
the joy of the race, the peloton, the spirit. There is a
dirty sewer of a forum on this site dedicated for you.
Please keep your comments there, so this thread doesn't
get consigned to that dark pit.


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## troutmd (Sep 7, 2007)

LostViking said:


> Superhuman ride by Froomie - made the best climbers in the business look like they were standing still!
> 
> And Porte is catching Quintana....Sky #1 and #2 on the day?!


Two from the same team peddle away from all the others --- impressive victory.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

phoehn9111 said:


> Nope, Sorry to disappoint.
> What you saw there was the new reality of the peloton.
> Real Deal. I had hoped that this forum could steer clear
> of the usual nay sayers and innuendo hearsay starters,
> ...


Why is it that every rider who goes to the Tour with Sky become instant climbers who can drop GC contenders? Ritchie Porte was nothing till he started riding for Sky. He rode the same climbs as Contador at the Giro, yet he is fresh enough to drop the GC favorites besides Quintana, then chase Quintana down and drop him. I guess his fatigue level was different from Contadors. Next, Geraint Thomas can now drop GC favorites too? Lets go back to Mick Rogers who was super human on Sky at the tour while he was there, now a mere mortal again on Tinkoff. Every Sky rider can climb to the last degree while on the team. Peter Kenaugh, Ian Stannard; both super human since racing for Sky.

The reason Postal was able to dope so well for so long was their drug of choice was always one step ahead of current controls. I guess we will just have to wait and see what comes out in a few years. I was always told if you are going to cheat to win, don't make it obvious. Sky doesn't seem bothered by the rule now however.


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## AJL (Jul 9, 2009)

*Tour de Sky?*



spookyload said:


> Why is it that every rider who goes to the Tour with Sky become instant climbers who can drop GC contenders? Ritchie Porte was nothing till he started riding for Sky. He rode the same climbs as Contador at the Giro, yet he is fresh enough to drop the GC favorites besides Quintana, then chase Quintana down and drop him. I guess his fatigue level was different from Contadors. Next, Geraint Thomas can now drop GC favorites too? Lets go back to Mick Rogers who was super human on Sky at the tour while he was there, now a mere mortal again on Tinkoff. Every Sky rider can climb to the last degree while on the team. Peter Kenaugh, Ian Stannard; both super human since racing for Sky.
> 
> The reason Postal was able to dope so well for so long was their drug of choice was always one step ahead of current controls. I guess we will just have to wait and see what comes out in a few years. I was always told if you are going to cheat to win, don't make it obvious. Sky doesn't seem bothered by the rule now however.


Yeah, I had flashbacks to Armstrong dropping his rivals on the first day in the mountains. Right now I'm feeling a bit sick over this stage. I want to believe the peleton is clean - but today with 3 sky riders in the top 5 on the stage and Froome looking so full of energy at the end


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Skewer said:


> Game over. Froome is the TDF champion.


There's still a lot of race left, and plenty of room for crashes, injuries, or mechanical failures at a very inopportune time. It's not over until the head to Paris, where the sprinters will have their fun, if the weather remains dry.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

phoehn9111 said:


> Nope, Sorry to disappoint. ...What I see indicates a cleaner peloton. If you're not getting that, please look closer.


I certainly want to think so. Contador sure looks like a man riding clean, as do Nibali and Teejay. But that performance by Froome indicates he really is the physiological phenom that everyone once believed Armstrong to be, or Sky is dirty and they just haven't PO'ed a very long line of people yet who are willing to tell. I really want to believe Froome is clean, and at this point there is no valid reason to believe he isn't.


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## Skewer (Sep 13, 2011)

hmmmm, could Team Sky be on something. I wonder. lol


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

phoehn9111 said:


> ...There is a
> dirty sewer of a forum on this site dedicated for you.
> Please keep your comments there, so this thread doesn't
> get consigned to that dark pit.


Good point. A new thread could be started there to discuss it.


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## Skewer (Sep 13, 2011)

I'm done with Sagan. He will never win a stage again. lol


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## aclinjury (Sep 12, 2011)

I think Porte show just as much prowess as Froome if not more.

Remember, Porte is the same guy who did miserably at the Giro (granted he eventually crashed out, but he was doing poorly even before the crashes). But now on stage 10, Porte lead Froome up the final climb, but then somehow managed to claw back to beat everyone but Froome? Porte only lost 59 seconds to Froome. This is nothing short of amazing.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

Tomorrow is another mountain stage, we'll see if Froome has any energy left. Hopefully some of the GC men have left some energy in their legs and hopefully TJ can keep Quintana away from 2nd place.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Marc said:


> LOL...yea right.


Agreed, One guy crushes his rivals in a "clean peloton" like that? Please, give it some time and this stage will be in the Doping forum.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Forgot Wiggins too. Track to GC contender like that.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

Skewer said:


> I pick Sagan to win this stage.


You are just trolling at this point right? Because if you seriously believe Sagan can win an HC climb stage of the tour you clearly don't understand pro cycling.


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## Corsaire (Jun 2, 2006)

spookyload said:


> Why is it that every rider who goes to the Tour with Sky become instant climbers who can drop GC contenders? Ritchie Porte was nothing till he started riding for Sky. He rode the same climbs as Contador at the Giro, yet he is fresh enough to drop the GC favorites besides Quintana, then chase Quintana down and drop him. I guess his fatigue level was different from Contadors. Next, Geraint Thomas can now drop GC favorites too? Lets go back to Mick Rogers who was super human on Sky at the tour while he was there, now a mere mortal again on Tinkoff. Every Sky rider can climb to the last degree while on the team. Peter Kenaugh, Ian Stannard; both super human since racing for Sky.
> 
> The reason Postal was able to dope so well for so long was their drug of choice was always one step ahead of current controls. I guess we will just have to wait and see what comes out in a few years. I was always told if you are going to cheat to win, don't make it obvious. Sky doesn't seem bothered by the rule now however.


The TDF corporation and related organisms are back again into "everything is clean & normal now" mode, just like they were after the 1998 Festina doping scandal. One would need to be very innocent and delusional to believe the "new" kool-aid.


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## PJay (May 28, 2004)

Corsaire said:


> Talking real. Superhuman is the word, and attached to that *super doped* too. No doubt Sky has the best juice in the pro peloton. Contador is just confirminng what transpsired in Stage 3, he just doesn't have it for this tour, the Giro undid him, obviously a blood transfusion prior to this stage would've helped him, but perhaps that didn't even help.
> Quintana seems the best poised for 2nd place, Nibali, ciao, ciao bambino!
> 3rd place is for grabs, but then again anything can happen, we'll see.
> Barring some accident or major failure by Froome, very doubtful, he is in the happy position to be the winner.


If Froome was not clean and the other guys were clean, then how can their performances be portrayed as weak or lousy?

This climb does not have a history in the tour so we cannot compare the time of ascent to what someone did ten or 40 years ago. But to be one minute behind Froome is incredible, no matter who you are.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

spookyload said:


> Why is it that every rider who goes to the Tour with Sky become instant climbers who can drop GC contenders? Ritchie Porte was nothing till he started riding for Sky. He rode the same climbs as Contador at the Giro, yet he is fresh enough to drop the GC favorites besides Quintana, then chase Quintana down and drop him. I guess his fatigue level was different from Contadors. Next, Geraint Thomas can now drop GC favorites too? Lets go back to Mick Rogers who was super human on Sky at the tour while he was there, now a mere mortal again on Tinkoff. Every Sky rider can climb to the last degree while on the team. Peter Kenaugh, Ian Stannard; both super human since racing for Sky.
> 
> The reason Postal was able to dope so well for so long was their drug of choice was always one step ahead of current controls. I guess we will just have to wait and see what comes out in a few years. I was always told if you are going to cheat to win, don't make it obvious. Sky doesn't seem bothered by the rule now however.


porte that got 7th in the giro and 6th at worlds before going to sky? if anything he had some flaky years there.


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## phoehn9111 (May 11, 2005)

I agree the Froome-Porte dominance of the stages raises eyebrows.
It does mine as well. I know that you know that I know. Ad infinitum.
It strikes me thus: and this is at the heart of it: All bike racing is
artificial to the point it is insane to watch, much less analyze it. So
proceeding from this point, the only logical course of action is to 
refrain from watching or participating in any discussion of the pro peloton.
I get this. I understand. Really. Same thing here as first mountain stage
2013. Porte of course faded thereafter. Point is this, once all this is
is acknowledged, we are aware of under what sky we all live as fans.
So of course any concise and enlightening analysis of team strategies, etc.
that is being put forward is paranthetical, it goes without saying. My concern
is a lot of valid and interesting insights are not even being put forward on
this forum because of the doping shellshock mentality. Worst of all is
to watch the race, then post some insipid rehash of a vague non-substantive
mantra and then withdraw. Like I have nothing to say, so I will just repeat
the sage mantra and appear to be the wisest of all in my silence. meh


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

He dropped damned near 23 minutes today. Wow!


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## gofast2wheeler (Oct 13, 2011)

Well, just finished watching race. That was completely absurd the way Froome rode away from everybody. None the less, Porte passing Quintana, What??? that's crazy!! Have to give it to Sky, Froome's boys are looking after him, Porte, Thomas, then Froome finishes the job. Porte is a huge loss to Sky when he changes teams. Could we see Porte Froome battle in the future? TDF is not over someone could crash out on decents etc, but Froome is in another league as well as Sky. Everybody was saying Quintana is the best climber look out, well I think Froome deserves credit. Tejay in my eyes was never going to make it in the mountains and I predict he will loose more time in the coming weeks and not be on the podium. AC is seeing it is to much to do double. Feel bad for Nibali because this kinda says you only one TDF because the big names dropped out because of crashes. Here comes the nay sayers about SKY (doping) after that performance, sorry clinic!


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

*"Froome: ‘What else is a rider, a clean rider, supposed to do?" *

From the article:

_Froome (Sky), who now leads the overall by 2:52 over Tejay van Garderen (BMC), told the press he deserves more “respect” following a series of doping questions in the post-stage press conference.

“It doesn’t make me angry. I understand where the questions are coming from; I know the history of the Tour and those that have gone before me. But at the same time there also needs to be a level of respect,” he said. “I’ve worked extremely hard to get here, and I am not going to let anyone take that away from me.”_​
Forgive me, but it's like deja vu all over again (apologies to Yogi).


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## Clipped_in (May 5, 2011)

Skewer said:


> hmmmm, could Team Sky be on something. I wonder. lol


It's the motor homes I tell ya!

Will be interesting to see what tomorrow brings. Incredible efforts by Froomie and Porte today. Too much? Tune in again next time for As The Tour Turns...


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## Clipped_in (May 5, 2011)

ibericb said:


> Forgive me, but it's like deja vu all over again (apologies to Yogi).


Ha! Cycling needs a Yogi.:thumbsup:


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## bluelena69 (Apr 19, 2005)

If Froome could take some PED to make himself tolerable to watch, then I would be okay with that. My brother and I call him Cyril, after the kat Dennis Quaid played in Breaking Away. Watching Froome on a bike is not much prettier.


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## Horze (Mar 12, 2013)

Remember the significant time gaps of several minutes last year. This year looks to be a repeat of the same. 

How interesting.


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## Horze (Mar 12, 2013)

Today Valasco just didn't want to be there.

Something tells me this team is genuinely sh*t by not providing any care due to their riders off of the bike. What have they been doing these past two days?

AVC looked like he'd been stuck in a traffic jam on the rest day.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

chris froome is legend! this ride combined with the 2013 ventoux will go down as one of the great clean era tdf wims. butthurt critics take it to the doping forum. or acknowledge the man's greatness. either way, i don't care--i'm going to appreciate the brilliance on display before me.


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## GueroAz (Nov 9, 2006)

dnice said:


> chris froome is legend! this ride combined with the 2013 ventoux will go down as one of the great clean era tdf wims. butthurt critics take it to the doping forum. or acknowledge the man's greatness. either way, i don't care--i'm going to appreciate the brilliance on display before me.


Go ahead, and if you are right then ok good for him. However, the likelihood that you are wrong (big likelihood) you had better return to eat your crow.

I don't think today by itself is damning. I think if Froome goes out tomorrow and hammers people again then that is extremely suspicious. If he continues to lay down the hammer like that every mountain stage, that would be too much to ignore. It just looks too much like the Armstrong days. I can't remember though, did Armstrong have mountain helpers that finished ahead of great climbing GC guys?


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

dnice said:


> chris froome is legend! this ride combined with the 2013 ventoux will go down as one of the great clean era tdf wims. butthurt critics take it to the doping forum. or acknowledge the man's greatness. either way, i don't care--i'm going to appreciate the brilliance on display before me.


While wearing your Livestrong bracelet?


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## Crank-a-Roo (Mar 21, 2003)

This is the first real mountain top finish, and Froome may still have fresh legs. He is strong and showing off to his rivals. He still can crack like Contador during the Giro this year.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

den bakker said:


> porte that got 7th in the giro and 6th at worlds before going to sky? if anything he had some flaky years there.


You are correct. He was 6th in the Worlds TT. Don't forget he was racing under the tutelage of Bijarne Riis at Saxo Bank. We know that was a super clean program. Went from a continental pro to a World Tour super human in the two years there.


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## FujiSteve (Nov 12, 2014)

GueroAz said:


> Go ahead, and if you are right then ok good for him. However, the likelihood that you are wrong (big likelihood) you had better return to eat your crow.
> 
> I don't think today by itself is damning. I think if Froome goes out tomorrow and hammers people again then that is extremely suspicious. If he continues to lay down the hammer like that every mountain stage, that would be too much to ignore. It just looks too much like the Armstrong days. I can't remember though, did Armstrong have mountain helpers that finished ahead of great climbing GC guys?


I've been trying to make the point for a while that Porte IS a great GC guy. But generally I get howled down by the "always has one bad day" crowd. He had some terrible luck and poor team support in the Giro although he looked quite comfortable in the early climbs in that tour. 

He manage to beat both Rohan Dennis and Luke Durbridge to win the Australian TT early in the year. After stage 1 the world can see how good Dennis is. I suppose you are going to suggest that he is doping too.

Didn't you notice how Porte deliberately dropped down 44 mins before this stage? Rested his legs just so he could be there when he was really needed at the pointy end of the HC stages.

And Geraint Thomas has performed pretty well in the mountains in the last 3 or 4 years, not to mention Olympic Gold in track endurance events. The fact that he held on for so long made it easier for Porte.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

FujiSteve said:


> I've been trying to make the point for a while that Porte IS a great GC guy. But generally I get howled down by the "always has one bad day" crowd. He had some terrible luck and poor team support in the Giro although he looked quite comfortable in the early climbs in that tour.
> 
> He manage to beat both Rohan Dennis and Luke Durbridge to win the Australian TT early in the year. After stage 1 the world can see how good Dennis is. I suppose you are going to suggest that he is doping too.
> 
> Didn't you notice how Porte deliberately dropped down 44 mins before this stage? Rested his legs just so he could be there when he was really needed at the pointy end of the HC stages.


I see a guy who went from a run of the mill continental pro in Australia to riding for Saxo Bank. We know they were all clean right? As soon as he gets there, he is a superhero. Goes to Sky and becomes an instant GC contender on some days, and falls apart over and over to lose his chances. Maybe he is really that good. When he leaves Sky next year to lead a team, we will see how he does off Sky's program. It is obvious Mick Rogers was a lot better on Sky's program. He led Froome and Wiggins up the climbs like a boss, and now that he is on Saxo and doesn't have to, can't even stay with them half way up.


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## FujiSteve (Nov 12, 2014)

phoehn9111 said:


> I agree the Froome-Porte dominance of the stages raises eyebrows.
> .....


The only eyebrow raising should be at the people who actually thought it was possible to win both the Giro and the tour in the same year. And also to Movistar who thought that Quintana could train just as well at home, away from all the team support, and still beat Froome.


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## FujiSteve (Nov 12, 2014)

spookyload said:


> I see a guy who went from a run of the mill continental pro in Australia to riding for Saxo Bank. We know they were all clean right? As soon as he gets there, he is a superhero. Goes to Sky and becomes an instant GC contender on some days, and falls apart over and over to lose his chances. Maybe he is really that good. When he leaves Sky next year to lead a team, we will see how he does off Sky's program. It is obvious Mick Rogers was a lot better on Sky's program. He led Froome and Wiggins up the climbs like a boss, and now that he is on Saxo and doesn't have to, can't even stay with them half way up.


Rogers won 3 world ITT champs when doping was at it's peak in '03, 04, and 05. I've got no doubt he was on the juice in those years. He left Sky because he didn't want to admit to it. And I wouldn't classify Porte's 7th place at the 2010 Giro as being worthy of a superhero.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

FujiSteve said:


> The only eyebrow raising should be at the people who actually thought it was possible to win both the Giro and the tour in the same year.


Since 1949 it's been done 10 times. Most recently in 1998 by Pantani. It's not unreasonable, just damned difficult. 

In 1987 Roche won the Giro, the Tour and The World , as did Merckx in 1974.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

FujiSteve said:


> The only eyebrow raising should be at the people who actually thought it was possible to win both the Giro and the tour in the same year. And also to Movistar who thought that Quintana could train just as well at home, away from all the team support, and still beat Froome.


Away from all the team support? Stars like Quintana, Froome, etc have their personal soigner follow them around the world that cooks, massages, etc.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

deviousalex said:


> Away from all the team support? Stars like Quintana, Froome, etc have their personal soigner follow them around the world that cooks, massages, etc.


Agree. Quintana goes to Columbia with the full support of Movistar. He trains in the mountains at altitude and comes to Europe as little as possible. Froome goes to Mallorca to hide for most of the year. How is that different from Quintana going to Columbia? If anything, it is at closer to sea level and is less of an advantage. Anybody who thinks Froome is at home in the UK pounding out miles in the rolling hills of England is crazy. 

I attribute Quintana's flat ride today to nine days of flat high speed racing. I think he needs to work his way into the climbing after being away from it that long. Froome might have figured this out from past performances and wanted to take advantage of it today. Get the time while Quintana is still trying to find his legs.


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

spookyload said:


> Agree. Quintana goes to Columbia with the full support of Movistar. He trains in the mountains at altitude and comes to Europe as little as possible. Froome goes to Mallorca to hide for most of the year. How is that different from Quintana going to Columbia? If anything, it is at closer to sea level and is less of an advantage. Anybody who thinks Froome is at home in the UK pounding out miles in the rolling hills of England is crazy.
> 
> I attribute Quintana's flat ride today to nine days of flat high speed racing. I think he needs to work his way into the climbing after being away from it that long. Froome might have figured this out from past performances and wanted to take advantage of it today. Get the time while Quintana is still trying to find his legs.


I thought Froome lived in Monaco?


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

love4himies said:


> I thought Froome lived in Monaco?


Sky does their camps in Tenerife and Mallorca, but yes he does live in Monaco for tax purposes. Many pro riders live there to avoid high tax rates at their home country.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

Skewer said:


> I pick Sagan to win this stage.


Hahaha! That's great.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

GueroAz said:


> Go ahead, and if you are right then ok good for him. However, the likelihood that you are wrong (big likelihood) you had better return to eat your crow.


No. I for one, will not jump on the "rider X had a great performance so they are automatically dirty" bandwagon. For one reason, in the interest of fairness, there is no evidence to make such an accusation. But for a far deeper reason, doing so puts cycling on a level with WWF. It isn't a sport. It is merely a doping contest. Why are we participating in that charade? 

If a rider can't have a legendary day or a legendary tour without it being a no-brainier that they are doped then cycling is a meaningless, passionless and worthless as a sport. And I'm not willing to give up on it. I'd rather be naive. Im aware that I may be wrong, but I'm a hopeless optimist, one that still considers college football an armature sport. 

The he only way to do it... If someone gets caught, they are doping. If they don't get caught, they are clean. I can't think of a better solution as a fan. But if you enjoy suspicion and pessimism (that has reasonable ground) then feel free. But I'll use my standard and hope that a rider can actually have a great day.

Froome was a beast. BEAST! But he has done nothing but prep for THIS race all season. I'm not a fan, but that was an amazing show. Like AC on the Mortirolo in the Giro. Just dominant.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Froome's performance today was very reminiscent of Armstrong, including the cadence. How and when did Lance get busted? Did they really catch him? It wasn't testing that snagged him. There's more than ample precedent for reasonable suspicion.


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## PBL450 (Apr 12, 2014)

ibericb said:


> Froome's performance today was very reminiscent of Armstrong, including the cadence. How and when did Lance get busted? Did they really catch him? It wasn't testing that snagged him. There's more than ample precedent for reasonable suspicion.


His dopers cadence? What was his cadence? I haven't seen it anywhere. Were you counting and timing revolutions? 120? I couldn't count, you don't get enough consistent camera coverage. But more power to you for getting it. I'm impressed. 

Froome is Lance. You live in your world and I'll live in mine. You go evidence-based crazy in thread after thread but here your speculation and cadence counting are satisfactory to sully Froome? And I don't even like him. But the contradictions are dramatic.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

PBL450 said:


> No. I for one, will not jump on the "rider X had a great performance so they are automatically dirty" bandwagon. For one reason, in the interest of fairness, there is no evidence to make such an accusation. But for a far deeper reason, doing so puts cycling on a level with WWF. It isn't a sport. It is merely a doping contest. Why are we participating in that charade?
> 
> If a rider can't have a legendary day or a legendary tour without it being a no-brainier that they are doped then cycling is a meaningless, passionless and worthless as a sport. And I'm not willing to give up on it. I'd rather be naive. Im aware that I may be wrong, but I'm a hopeless optimist, one that still considers college football an armature sport.
> 
> ...


thank you, sir! well said.


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## dnice (Jul 12, 2012)

ibericb said:


> Froome's performance today was very reminiscent of Armstrong, including the cadence. How and when did Lance get busted? Did they really catch him? It wasn't testing that snagged him. There's more than ample precedent for reasonable suspicion.


armstrong was in fact caught during testing. there are many people who confirmed this. covered up, yes--but caught nonetheless.


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## joeinchi (Sep 24, 2010)

Ah, this is such a bummer. Whether they're clean or not, it doesn't matter--the controversy isn't going away anytime soon. :cryin:


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

dnice said:


> covered up, yes--but caught nonetheless.


It's not like that could ever happen again.


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## Skewer (Sep 13, 2011)

Lance Armstrong in his prime vs Froome. Who would you pick to win yellow? I pick the GOAT, Armstrong.


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## shermes (Jul 26, 2008)

Skewer said:


> Lance Armstrong in his prime vs Froome. Who would you pick to win yellow? I pick the GOAT, Armstrong.


I pick Sagan to win!


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

So TJVg beats 3 of the So called Big Four...He is ahead of all of them except Froome and nobody says much about him? He out-climbs both Contador and Quintana and every other guy in the rather large peloton but a couple...and nobody says much about him? Is it because he's boring and American? Are we 'gun-shy' now about rooting for an American.... after that Dick from Texas? I watched the climb and he looked good and he rode well and he beat the so called favorites...and nobody talks much about him? Wassup with that? They hardly even said his name on Eurosport...though he is second in the GC....and he held his place in the GC on a very significant climbing finish...and it looked to me like he rode damn smart...and nobody talks much about him...


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

Gnarly 928 said:


> So TJVg beats 3 of the So called Big Four...He is ahead of all of them except Froome and nobody says much about him? He out-climbs both Contador and Quintana and every other guy in the rather large peloton but a couple...and nobody says much about him? Is it because he's boring and American? Are we 'gun-shy' now about rooting for an American.... after that Dick from Texas? I watched the climb and he looked good and he rode well and he beat the so called favorites...and nobody talks much about him? Wassup with that? They hardly even said his name on Eurosport...though he is second in the GC....and he held his place in the GC on a very significant climbing finish...and it looked to me like he rode damn smart...and nobody talks much about him...


He did NOT outclimb Quintana. He was better than Contador and Nibali. 
He held his place but he was with Gesink, and he lost contact with him, then he was with large group of Valverde/Gerrans, and he lost contact with them - if you project from here on, it doesn't look good for him.


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

Skewer said:


> Lance Armstrong in his prime vs Froome. Who would you pick to win yellow? I pick the GOAT, Armstrong.


Froome would win, easily. In their prime years, Postal riders could never exhibit the sort of dominance that Sky riders showed today. And they will do it again.


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## deviousalex (Aug 18, 2010)

55x11 said:


> He did NOT outclimb Quintana. He was better than Contador and Nibali.
> He held his place but he was with Gesink, and he lost contact with him, then he was with large group of Valverde/Gerrans, and he lost contact with them - if you project from here on, it doesn't look good for him.


Gerrans isn't in the race anymore. Wasn't it Adam Yates?


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

dnice said:


> armstrong was in fact caught during testing. there are many people who confirmed this. covered up, yes--but caught nonetheless.


He was never prosecuted based on any failed test. He went on for years, and then a whole long line of PO'ed folks lined up to make the case, and Lance capitulated. It has happened before.

I wasn't accusing Froome of anything, and I really want to believe he is clean. I was merely explaining why so many are, after today, very suspicious of Froome. The similarity was glaring, including the broadcast commentary about his unusual high cadence as he came into the finish climbing a 10% grade.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Geraint


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

spookyload said:


> .. yes he does live in Monaco for tax purposes. Many pro riders live there to *avoid high tax rates at their home country*.


Now that's integrity.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

PBL450 said:


> His dopers cadence? What was his cadence? I haven't seen it anywhere. Were you counting and timing revolutions? 120? I couldn't count, you don't get enough consistent camera coverage. But more power to you for getting it. I'm impressed.
> 
> Froome is Lance. You live in your world and I'll live in mine. You go evidence-based crazy in thread after thread but here your speculation and cadence counting are satisfactory to sully Froome? And I don't even like him. But the contradictions are dramatic.


You're making stuff up, and you completely missed the point. I won't waste my time trying to explain. It's pretty clear if you take the time to read it, carefully.

Separately, if you want to know my stance on Froome following yesterday's win, see this post in this thread.


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## Horze (Mar 12, 2013)

CF is like the Mowgli of the peloton.


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## AirForceNole (Jun 28, 2015)

55x11 said:


> Froome would win, easily. In their prime years, Postal riders could never exhibit the sort of dominance that Sky riders showed today. And they will do it again.


Not as a team but Lance dominated


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

FujiSteve said:


> I've been trying to make the point for a while that Porte IS a great GC guy. But generally I get howled down by the "always has one bad day" crowd. He had some terrible luck and poor team support in the Giro although he looked quite comfortable in the early climbs in that tour.
> 
> He manage to beat both Rohan Dennis and Luke Durbridge to win the Australian TT early in the year. After stage 1 the world can see how good Dennis is. I suppose you are going to suggest that he is doping too.
> 
> ...


I think Porte can be a GC guy if he can somehow become mentally stronger. I can't put my finger on it, but there just seems to be something missing that stops him from winning and perhaps a good sports psychologist could help him. You have to have the mental fortitude to overcome the stress and pressure of being the team's GC so you can recover for the next day's ride.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

Or maybe he's just doing his job of supporting the team leader. It's been said that the reason he's leaving is he now wants to win for himself.


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## phoehn9111 (May 11, 2005)

After watching the stage, Froome seems believable as I said before.
And despite my earlier comments about a clean ER peloton, it does
bother me the way Porte could mark Quintana and Thomas could mark
Valverde. Maybe Sky has some one trick pony one stage advantage
thing going on. And of course we have all read Froome getting an
independent third party test. I believe he is a climbing freak of nature.


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## ibericb (Oct 28, 2014)

phoehn9111 said:


> ...I believe he is a climbing freak of nature.


For the sake and future of road cycling, I sure hope you're right. At this point, there is no valid reason to believe he is anything but a physiological specimen. I believe the only reason the question is being os broadly raised because LA showed us what a well-doped competitor looked like, and yesterday Froome looked very much like LA did. 

I really want Froome to be a guy who is as good clean as Armstrong was doped at his best. Maybe Froome has a genetic gift, and with Team Sky they've really cracked the nut on the combination of training and nutrition that lets him excel as he has.


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