# what is your vo2 max ?



## loona (Sep 28, 2012)

if you happen to know


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## ThomasAA (Oct 15, 2012)

I was just in the lab three weeks ago so I decided to test out my VO2 max, I was at 66 O2 ml/kg/min


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## loona (Sep 28, 2012)

i am 46


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Not useful knowledge*



loona said:


> if you happen to know


If you look at the research you will find that VO2 Max doesn't really correlate that well with performance. Therefore knowing your number is not that useful. 

P.S. I don't know mine and probably never will.


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## ThomasAA (Oct 15, 2012)

Kerry you are fairly correct with your statement, VO2 max does not really correlate that well with performance, it is more your ventilatory threshold (t-vent) that has more of an impact. Your t-vent pretty much dictates how much of your VO2 max you can actually use. 

For example, rider 1 has a VO2 max of 100ml/kg/min and rider 2 has a VO2 max of 50ml/kg/min. Rider 1 can only utilize 40% of his VO2 max and Rider 2 can utilize 90%. So corrected for your t-vent, Rider 1's VO2 would technically be 40 and Rider 2 would be 45. Despite Rider 1's greater VO2 max, Rider 2 would actually have the advantage. (This numbers are unrealistic for the most part, they just make it easier to portray the example.)

That is also why it is never that good to compare your VO2 max with another person.

The pros and top competitive amateurs you will usually see a VO2 max range from 65-82 and they can generally use up to 80% of that (t-vent). (If memory serves me right).


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## loona (Sep 28, 2012)

can you explain t-vent gas exchange
in a more simplified way ?


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Kerry Irons said:


> If you look at the research you will find that VO2 Max doesn't really correlate that well with performance. Therefore knowing your number is not that useful.
> 
> P.S. I don't know mine and probably never will.


I'm a little surprised that you don't know yours, but i agree that it won't correlate with performance.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

61, tested when I was untrained and suffering from a mild chest cold. I don't know if being out of shape and ill made much of a difference. I'll find out soon, as I'm fit now and have the full gamut of tests on a ergo bike soon. 

And I agree that it is not going to determine one's athletic potential. I crush a buddy on the bike and running 5Ks -- he has completed a few ironman tris and tested 72.


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## ThomasAA (Oct 15, 2012)

Local Hero: Being out of shape and ill will have an impact on your maximum oxygen intake. Just like any other part of your body if you don't use it you will lose it.

loona: Here is some more on ventilatory threshold (T-Vent)...

T-Vent is the point when your ventilation increases disproportionately to the oxygen uptake. That is the point where you are breathing harder and finding it more difficult to get air. The goal generally in endurance points is to be able to stay at a steady state, once you go past your T-vent you lose that steady state and enter your lactate threshold.

T-Vent occurs generally around 50-60% of VO2 max in untrained individuals. 80-90% of VO2 max for elite athletes. Basically that means you can maintain that percentage of your VO2 max at a steady state. That is how much of your VO2 max you can use at a steady state without tiring or entering your lactate threshold.

Here is another example/question:

You have two cyclists John and Peter.

John has a VO2 max of 80ml/kg/min and a T-vent at 50%

Peter has a VO2 max of 60ml/kg/min and a T-vent at 80%

Who would win the race?


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*The winner*



ThomasAA said:


> Here is another example/question:
> 
> You have two cyclists John and Peter.
> 
> ...


Not to be too facetious but: the first one across the line. If we could know everything in advance from lab tests there would be no reason to race. Using a motorsport analogy: dynamometer tests do NOT predict the outcome of races.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

Mine was tested at 65.


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

If vo2 max is not a good indicator of potential, then why do we always hear "pros and top competitive amateurs you will usually see a VO2 max range from 65-82 " ?


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## ThomasAA (Oct 15, 2012)

Kerry Irons said:


> Not to be too facetious but: the first one across the line. If we could know everything in advance from lab tests there would be no reason to race. Using a motorsport analogy: dynamometer tests do NOT predict the outcome of races.


What I gave was an example to hopefully help Loona further understand the concept of T-vent as he/she was asking for a more simplified explanation.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Kerry Irons said:


> Not to be too facetious but: the first one across the line. If we could know everything in advance from lab tests there would be no reason to race. Using a motorsport analogy: dynamometer tests do NOT predict the outcome of races.


Much agreed. I've done some VO2 testing at a local university as part of athletic studies. I have the info somewhere at home, but I mostly keep it as a benchmark to try to improve upon. My last one calculated to 4w/kg (don't have the ml/kg/min data handy), which would suggest I'm on par with Cat 4. In a time trial, I do well. Outside of that, I do piss poorly.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

Creakyknees said:


> If vo2 max is not a good indicator of potential, then why do we always hear "pros and top competitive amateurs you will usually see a VO2 max range from 65-82 " ?


Because they do. 

From a performance potential perspective - all VO2max tells us is that you _might _have some potential to race at that level. But having a VO2max at that level doesn't mean you _will _be competitive.

Under that level and it's physiologically impossible to generate the power necessary to be competitive. 

e.g. even with very high gross efficiency and being well trained sufficiently to sustain a very high proportion of your VO2max at threshold, with a VO2max of 65ml/kg/minute, the best FTP you are likely to see is ~ 4.9W/kg


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

ThomasAA said:


> What I gave was an example to hopefully help Loona further understand the concept of T-vent as he/she was asking for a more simplified explanation.


Except that LT occurs at a power substantially lower than what you describe as T-vent.

But really the point Kerry was making is that your example might be a way to highlight differences in power output of two riders*, but not their race performance which is dictated by many other factors.

* and even then you haven't accounted for differences in gross efficiency.


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## Robert1 (Mar 27, 2012)

Is resting heart rate a good gage of vo2 max? This site has some simple HR tests to get VO2 max. 

VO2max Calculator

Based on that mine is pretty unremarkable. How's everyone else's based on HR compared to lab test?


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

Robert1 said:


> Is resting heart rate a good gage of vo2 max? This site has some simple HR tests to get VO2 max.
> 
> VO2max Calculator
> 
> Based on that mine is pretty unremarkable. How's everyone else's based on HR compared to lab test?


It's almost 9pm. After work today I drank two cups of coffee and I just got back from a party; I walked up a flight of stairs less than 15 minutes ago. OK, I just took some deep breaths and tried to relax. Is that resting? 

It gave me a VO2max of 63 -- close to the 61 I scored on the treadmill stress test. 

I've measured my resting HR late at night and early with an electronic blood pressure cuff. That gave me a resting HR in the high 30s and low 40s. Based on that my VO2max is 67-73...significantly higher than what I scored on the treadmill stress test. 

But it's probably more in line with my actual performance on the bike, as I excel in punchy sufferfest crits. I like technical races with a hill that strings out the field. On the track I do well in points and tempo races. My recovery is pretty fast. That said, I'm not particularly good (or trained) at time trialing.


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## ThomasAA (Oct 15, 2012)

Alex_Simmons/RST said:


> Except that LT occurs at a power substantially lower than what you describe as T-vent.
> 
> But really the point Kerry was making is that your example might be a way to highlight differences in power output of two riders*, but not their race performance which is dictated by many other factors.
> 
> * and even then you haven't accounted for differences in gross efficiency.


T-vent has a very close relationship to your LT, basically put the hydrogen ion (H+) from the lactic acid molecule enters your blood stream then enters your red blood cells, this will cause an increase in CO2, which will cause an increase in ventilation.


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## RayfromTX (May 18, 2011)

60 and I was told that is very high but based on others here, I guess not.


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## ThomasAA (Oct 15, 2012)

RayfromTX said:


> 60 and I was told that is very high but based on others here, I guess not.


One trap you cannot get in is comparing your VO2 max to others as was stated in previous post.

60 is a high VO2 max, if you are at around 60 and higher it definitely means you are a well trained endurance athlete.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

RayfromTX said:


> 60 and I was told that is very high but based on others here, I guess not.


Like I said, I was tested at 61 with the caveat of being relatively untrained and ill. So..meh. I do fine in amateur racing!

I get the feeling that online VO2 Max is like online height or penis length.


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

ThomasAA said:


> T-vent has a very close relationship to your LT, basically put the hydrogen ion (H+) from the lactic acid molecule enters your blood stream then enters your red blood cells, this will cause an increase in CO2, which will cause an increase in ventilation.


I'm aware of what's going on, just there was something confusing with your descriptions of the intensity levels associated with T-Vent. 

Specifically the % of VO2max you suggest T-vent occurs at in an elite trained cyclist (80-90% of VO2max) versus what you show on your charts. Pushing 80-90% of VO2max is an intensity I would expect an elite trained cyclist to be able to maintain for about an hour.

Your charts however indicate that that it occurs with a BL concentration of ~ 2.X mmol/L level, or ~ 1mmol/L above baseline, which is what I'd call LT. LT is a level an elite trained cyclist could sustain for many hours and typically occurs at a power 10-15% below 1-hour power.

This latter level (LT) is the level I would associate with T-Vent, although it's possible for T-Vent and LT to disassociate themselves.

It's also possible to get a whole bunch of different values for LT and TV depending on how they are measured, test protocol etc.

Besides, with power measurement, these tests are all largely redundant.


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## ThomasAA (Oct 15, 2012)

Alex_Simmons/RST said:


> I'm aware of what's going on, just there was something confusing with your descriptions of the intensity levels associated with T-Vent.
> 
> Specifically the % of VO2max you suggest T-vent occurs at in an elite trained cyclist (80-90% of VO2max) versus what you show on your charts. Pushing 80-90% of VO2max is an intensity I would expect an elite trained cyclist to be able to maintain for about an hour.
> 
> ...


I am going to have to start learning more about power when training. I never worked with it before nor have a power metre.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

All that theory and no power meter??


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## ThomasAA (Oct 15, 2012)

spade2you said:


> All that theory and no power meter??


I am heavily involved in other sports as well, where power metres serve no purpose. Also, I have been out of cycling for a few years, six years ago they weren't readily available as they are now.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

ThomasAA said:


> I am heavily involved in other sports as well, where power metres serve no purpose. Also, I have been out of cycling for a few years, six years ago they weren't readily available as they are now.


Ah, gotcha.


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## wesb321 (Oct 1, 2011)

Has anyone whom has had a REAL VO2 test tried the online link to the pulse test? How close was the outcome?


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Power @ threshhold and Power @ vO2max (maximal 5-8 minute power) are easier to determine, and power is what's relevant.

Even if you dont have a powermeter, Strava will calculate fairly accurate power numbers If you : 

- ride up a hill of reasonably steady grade, of between 5-10%, that you can maintain at your preferred cadence.

- enter your total weight of bike, body, and equipment (water bottles, shoes, etc).


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## gte105u (Aug 12, 2012)

Got a question for you guys. Did a test today which pushed you to your threshold and a little beyond then stopped. As far as I can tell this is not a true VO2 max. I know my VO2 range for each of the first three zones. Is there any accurate way to extrapolate what my VO2 max is based upon my first 3 zones? Is there any reason to need this? I am aware of how to train using heart rate, but is there a good reason to know/train using the VO levels? Below were my levels

Zone 1 (150-159): 26-29
Zone 2 (160-168): 29-30
Zone 3 (169-176): 30-46

Resting HR: 65
Max HR: 197
Age: 31


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

gte105u said:


> but is there a good reason to know/train using the VO levels?


Since you can't measure VO2 when out training, what practical purpose does it serve?


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## dave morris (Mar 24, 2007)

When I begin working with an athlete, one of the numbers I like to have is VO2 max because it gives me some idea of what kind of an engine I am working with and how far this person may be able to go in the sport. No, not everyone with a VO2 max > 70 ml/kg/min is going to be an elite endurance athlete, but the lowest VO2 max I have seen from any of the elite riders I have tested is 65.

When working with a rider, one of the most valuable pieces of data you can have is maximal sustainable power output (MSPO) which, of course, is going to vary depending on the duration of the effort. For efforts of approximately 30 min or so, Tvent typically nails MSPO right on the head. This is because the H+ that are produced and contribute to fatigue are buffered by bicarbonate, producing CO2 which stimulates respiration. As Alex pointed out, Tvent, and pH threshold, typically occur at higher power outputs than does lactate threshold, at least in trained individuals. This is because lactate production does not result in acidosis. In fact, if you look at the lactate producing reaction, lactate production actually absorbes H+ and, thus, inhibits acidosis. As for "lactic acid" contributing to acidosis and causing Tvent, this is a common misconception, as the pH of the human body does not support lactic acid production in any significant amount, and that lactic acid that is produced does not contribute to acidosis.

MSPO for longer durations (~60 min) are more closely reflected by lactate threshold (I have found the the 1 mmol rise technique to be the most accurate). Why lactate threshold accurately predict 60 min MSPO is still a center of debate and there are numerous possible reasons.

So, if you are a cyclist what numbers are going to help you the most? Power output at Tvent and power output at LT. These are the best predictors of how well you can perform right now in the real world and are the most useful for prescribing power output for training efforts - at least for endurance road cyclists.

Hope this helps,

Dave


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## Robert1 (Mar 27, 2012)

See post 18. 




wesb321 said:


> Has anyone whom has had a REAL VO2 test tried the online link to the pulse test? How close was the outcome?


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## Robert1 (Mar 27, 2012)

Just use the link I posted earlier. Based on your resting HR, depending on your weight, your VO2 max is probably somewhere in the low 40s.




gte105u said:


> Got a question for you guys. Did a test today which pushed you to your threshold and a little beyond then stopped. As far as I can tell this is not a true VO2 max. I know my VO2 range for each of the first three zones. Is there any accurate way to extrapolate what my VO2 max is based upon my first 3 zones? Is there any reason to need this? I am aware of how to train using heart rate, but is there a good reason to know/train using the VO levels? Below were my levels
> 
> Zone 1 (150-159): 26-29
> Zone 2 (160-168): 29-30
> ...


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## gte105u (Aug 12, 2012)

Robert1 said:


> Just use the link I posted earlier. Based on your resting HR, depending on your weight, your VO2 max is probably somewhere in the low 40s.


My VO2 at threshold was 46. How would that make my VO2 max low 40s?


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## Robert1 (Mar 27, 2012)

How do you know it was 46? I'm just going by the website and you resting HR, check it out for self to get a closer approximation. Here's the link again: http://www.shapesense.com/fitness-exercise/calculators/vo2max-calculator.aspx



gte105u said:


> My VO2 at threshold was 46. How would that make my VO2 max low 40s?


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## gte105u (Aug 12, 2012)

Robert1 said:


> How do you know it was 46? I'm just going by the website and you resting HR, check it out for self to get a closer approximation. Here's the link again: VO2max Calculator


It was part of the post you quoted in your response. My VO2 at lactate threshold (176 bpm) was 46. This is per the New Leaf test I took with the mask and everything. They called it a VO2 "peak" as it is the VO2 at my lactate threshold. The key to that whole post was to see if anyone could help me approximate my VO2 max based upon my VO2 at threshold and heart rate zones. Based upon my resting heart rate of 65, the link you posted says I should have a VO2 max of around 42-45. Considering my VO2 at threshold is higher than this, the calculations in that link are suspect to say the least.


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## mjengstrom (Apr 20, 2009)

It's my understanding that Jack Daniels VDOT system maps to vo2 max. So you can easily look up you vo2max from his charts. Although i think biking and running may yield different results.m


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## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

VO2 at threshold varies from 70% to 90% of VO2max, so if your threshold VO2 is 46ml/kg/min, then your VO2max will likely be anywhere from 50-65 ml/kg/min.


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