# RED vs DA



## JaPPster (Jun 3, 2011)

pros and cons?


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

One is good, the other is betterer.


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## kbwh (May 28, 2010)

Green and red apples, right?
To me the big difference is the shifting actuation. I like the SRAM double tap and dislike the Shimano "brifter" lever, but that's me. 

The correct answer is Super Record.


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## aaric (Mar 10, 2011)

That's like asking cake or pie... Personally I'm riding SRAM Red LTE, and the wife is on Dura-Ace 7900. (it came down to cosmetics on our respective bikes)

You pretty much have to ride both to decide what you like. They both shift well, but have subtle differences that may or may not matter to you.

I'll throw in the RBR obligatory LMGTFY link: http://tinyurl.com/3ewcwv2

And a blog entry that sums up my experience pretty well:

http://blog.artscyclery.com/product-reviews/best-gruppo-ever/


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## JaPPster (Jun 3, 2011)

thx guys


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## veloci1 (Nov 29, 2005)

I just switched from SR 2011 to 2011 SRAM red black. SRAM has superior shifting to SR.
Ergonomics go to SR, but, I am already used to SRAM ergonomics.
Do not let anyone convince you to get campy.

Now, I have never liked shimano shifter.very unnatural for my hands.


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## spiffomatic (Jan 28, 2010)

Currently use lower grade SRAM and also new DA. I don't think the shifting style matters much one way or another... they're both good and have minor drawbacks. Biggest observations... for a guy with reasonably big hands, I really prefer the size of the DA hoods... they're substantial and much more secure feeling. Also, shifting on the front and the stiffness of that DA crank are like nothing I've experienced... We have a few big guys on my team who have bent Red big rings in the past (perhaps the earlier models?) but swear by DA. Maybe a little heavier, but I tip my hat to the DA brakes (great), authoritative front shifting and beefy cranks and hoods. That said, I think Red is pretty nice stuff as well... I wouldn't kick either out of bed, and if you lose a race, you certainly can't blame either set of components


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## MinnBobber (May 21, 2009)

Both very nice bit I liked the DA hood shape better and preferred the feel fo the DA shift.
Your experience may be different/ very subjective


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## Optimus (Jun 18, 2010)

They both work very well, but I prefer Shimano over Sram!


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## DonDenver (May 30, 2007)

spiffomatic said:


> Biggest observations... for a guy with reasonably big hands, I really prefer the size of the DA hoods... they're substantial and much more secure feeling. Also, shifting on the front and the stiffness of that DA crank are like nothing I've experienced...


Meets my observations spot on. Also a little more noise in the drive train with Red for my likes. That said, more folks seem to be riding Red around me than my 7900.


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## Sven_Nijs (Jul 14, 2011)

aaric said:


> And a blog entry that sums up my experience pretty well:
> 
> Arts Cyclery Blog » Best Gruppo Ever?


I'd be interested to know if you're views have changed in the intervening years with the advent of Di2 down to Ultegra level?


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## Ledipus (Apr 17, 2007)

And for me, I greatly prefer the SRAM hoods over the Shimano. I have for years dealt with numbness in my hands using several versions and generations of Shimano shifters. Since moving the SRAM (first Rival, now Red) I have found a new level of comfort I never thought possible. Also, on long rides when I am loosing my focus I tend to mis-shift with the new shape of the recent Ultegra and Dura-Ace shifters. This does not happen for me with the SRAM groups. 

What does this all mean? The Pros and Cons are different for everyone, and it is nice to have two readily available, high quality groups to choose from.


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## stover (Apr 24, 2010)

I have both Shimano and SRAM. Overall I prefer the feel of the SRAM hoods but I like the mechanical operation of Shimano better.


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## marckap (Apr 12, 2008)

i concur with stover


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## Salsa_Lover (Jul 6, 2008)

SR11 

problem solved


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## ejprez (Nov 9, 2006)

I've used all three 7800, Red and now Chorus 11 as of 2 months ago. I've setup and adjusted the newer 7900 and 6700 shifters and must say that shimano must of put the bulk of their R&D into electric shifting. The older 7800 shifting was much quicker, the newer ergonomics are better. I think both Sram and Shimano are a bit better for criterium where you can just shift with your finger tips, sram more so. I love my new campy but do notice a few very minor drawbacks. However Shimano and Campy front shifting is way better than Sram. Although with the 2012 sram groups it looks like they redesighned the chainrings, well added 2 more shift ramps so maybe that helps. I now have my Red on my cross bike which I think will be great on there.


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## Maximus_XXIV (Nov 10, 2008)

What would Andy ride?


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## mtrider05 (Aug 8, 2009)

Maximus_XXIV said:


> What would Andy ride?


SRAM again next year, I'm guessing.


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## DiegoMontoya (Apr 11, 2010)

Three things you should do when you get a Red group.

1. Toss the chain and get a DA chain.
2. Toss the cables and get Yokozuna Reaction cables.
3. Replace the cassette with a DA.

I've been running this setup and it's quiet and shifts perfectly every time.


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## Rugergundog (Apr 2, 2011)

Ride both, i do


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## RussellS (Feb 1, 2010)

ejprez said:


> I think both Sram and Shimano are a bit better for criterium where you can just shift with your finger tips, sram more so.


No. You are at a disadvantage using Shimano or SRAM in criteriums. Neither of the S companies allows you to shift multiple gears to harder/smaller cogs. Criteriums involve corners where you slow down going into the corner and then accelerate out of the corner. With Campagnolo you spin up to a high rpm and then push the thumb button and drop three cogs to the right gear. With the S companies you Click. Wait. Click. Wait. Click. Slow shifting.


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

Pro for DA - it works, so no reason to try anything else. Con - price....
Pro for Red - Works, I guess. Con - price.....


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## mpower13 (Jun 10, 2011)

DA no doubt and it is a Japanese product.


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## asad137 (Jul 29, 2009)

RussellS said:


> No. You are at a disadvantage using Shimano or SRAM in criteriums. Neither of the S companies allows you to shift multiple gears to harder/smaller cogs. Criteriums involve corners where you slow down going into the corner and then accelerate out of the corner. With Campagnolo you spin up to a high rpm and then push the thumb button and drop three cogs to the right gear. With the S companies you Click. Wait. Click. Wait. Click. Slow shifting.


 You obviously haven't used SRAM much. You want 3 gears with SRAM? Click three times as fast as you want -- rear upshifting takes very little lever travel. You want 4 gears? Click 4 times. You want 5? Click 5 times. No need to wait in between, the clicking just releases cable and the derailleur moves. I doubt there's any appreciable difference in the time it takes to upshift 3 gears between SRAM and Campy.

Asad


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## cpark (Oct 13, 2004)

asad137 said:


> You obviously haven't used SRAM much. You want 3 gears with SRAM? Click three times as fast as you want -- rear upshifting takes very little lever travel. You want 4 gears? Click 4 times. You want 5? Click 5 times. No need to wait in between, the clicking just releases cable and the derailleur moves. I doubt there's any appreciable difference in the time it takes to upshift 3 gears between SRAM and Campy.
> 
> Asad


There is need to shift more than 2 gears at once during the crit?
Obviously, neither one of you know how to race....
Go get the Shimano 105 or Rival group and call it a day.....


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## bob.satan (Jun 2, 2011)

mpower13 said:


> DA no doubt and it is a Japanese product.



they are both made in Singapore actually


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

bob.satan said:


> they are both made in Singapore actually


Nope, all DA and even Ultegra components are still made in Japan. Shimano does make wheelsets (even DA) in a factory in Malaysia. I have measured three Shimano wheelsets so far and it seems the handbuilders at the factory shoot for +/- 0.3 mm true, both laterally and radially, which is pretty impressive. One wheelset is the one I have been riding for three years, where at one point, I weighed 190 lbs. It's a cheap Ultegra wheelset which I bought for $165 (both wheels!).

What gets me about SRAM RED is it's damn expensive, and yet priced at or above DA7900, but made in Mexico or somewhere outside the U.S. As for Campy SR11, priced as high too, and lotta the components are actually made in Romania. At least Shimano sticks to their roots, for what you pay.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

spiffomatic said:


> Currently use lower grade SRAM and also new DA. I don't think the shifting style matters much one way or another... they're both good and have minor drawbacks. Biggest observations... for a guy with reasonably big hands, I really prefer the size of the DA hoods... they're substantial and much more secure feeling. Also, shifting on the front and the stiffness of that DA crank are like nothing I've experienced... We have a few big guys on my team who have bent Red big rings in the past (perhaps the earlier models?) but swear by DA. Maybe a little heavier, but I tip my hat to the DA brakes (great), authoritative front shifting and beefy cranks and hoods. That said, I think Red is pretty nice stuff as well... I wouldn't kick either out of bed, and if you lose a race, you certainly can't blame either set of components


+1

The ole DA7800/7803 cranks were as stiff as they come, just ask LA, he won seven TDFs on one. Just take a look at the massive big ring.

I don't have DA7900, but I heard front shifting is way ahead of the crowd. That is really the last frontier, as far as I'm concerned in the road cycling world, which is why Shimano went after it. It's just that so many people ride sissy compacts these days, where shifting to a 50 ring is pretty much instantaneous. The ole 53-52 is another matter.

I ride a lotta steep grades, gotta get good brakes. DA7800 here, pretty cheap now. The pros don't complain much with Campy or SRAM as they don't need as much stopping power, when you weigh 135 versus 190 lbs.

And you can blame losing a race to components. Just two cases in mind: Boonen losing Milan San Remo one year, because the rear wouldn't shift to the 11 ring on the finishing sprint. And Cadel Evans last year losing the Vuelta, because he was stuck in a small gear on a pivotal stage. In both cases, Campy was the culprit. And of course the TDF last year with Schlenk and SRAM.


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## mimason (Oct 7, 2006)

Clevor said:


> It's just that so many people ride sissy compacts these days, where shifting to a 50 ring is pretty much instantaneous. The ole 53-52 is another matter.


OT , I never get the silly compact comment thing anymore. I would consider myself a masher over a spinner and my strength is TT but on my road bike I converted over the compact for a mountain century and never looked back. Granted the worn big ring on my old 53 was also part of the reason but I simple don't need anything more that 50/34 with an 11/26 cassette. I can ride the 50/11 and still get the eqivalent of a 53/12. Call me a sissy but I guess me and my hairy legs on a compact dishes out enough suffering that no one locally calls me one. 

On topic Go Frankenstein for the best: RED hoods, DA FD, DA cranks, RED RD, DA brakes, RED cassette.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

mimason said:


> OT , I never get the silly compact comment thing anymore. I would consider myself a masher over a spinner and my strength is TT but on my road bike I converted over the compact for a mountain century and never looked back. Granted the worn big ring on my old 53 was also part of the reason but I simple don't need anything more that 50/34 with an 11/26 cassette. I can ride the 50/11 and still get the eqivalent of a 53/12. Call me a sissy but I guess me and my hairy legs on a compact dishes out enough suffering that no one locally calls me one.


Hey, no need to preach to the choir; I plan to go triple one day! :lol:

Seriously, my top-of-the-line frame (a Colnago 2010 EPS in Mapei), will be outfitted with the optimum touring groupset: DA7803 triple. I do a lot of climbing and ain't getting younger, and I need the lower gears because the grades here are upwards of 15%. I like the idea of a 52-39-30 triple, as you retain pro, close ratio gearing but you have a granny gear to bail you out. The DA7803 crank is as stiff as they come, with CNC machined chainrings for the optimum in shift quality, so you feel like you are shifting a double.

My Ti bike is outfitted with a Campy triple, but too much trimming needed between each ring; it feels like the Grand Canyon down there. And the 53-42-30 rings are a bit funky.

Also Flightdeck is cheap now, so I like the idea of having 30 gears at your disposal and you can see exactly which one you are in at a glance (both ring and cog).

Actually, I have a 50/34 compact on my current beater bike which I ride most the time. It just feels like a quick-and-dirty way to get lower gearing, but it works for most egos as it's not as obvious as a triple.


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## maxxevv (Jan 18, 2009)

bob.satan said:


> they are both made in Singapore actually


You mean SRAM and Shimano ? 

Not that I know of. 

Shimano only makes its lower end city and MTB component sets in Singapore. They also do a bit of R&D in its Singapore facilities. Again mostly the lower end stuff. 

They make almost all their wheels in their Malaysia factory. Including DA. But not the rims nor most of the high precision components. They also do a fair bit of aluminium casting products/components done in Malaysia. Such as the pedals and lower end lever arms. 

But its high value items are still done in Japan. Those that require high precision and high quality forging are still done in Japan. 

Shimano does however have a few factories in Europe too. In the Netherlands and in the Czech Republic. Mostly doing the mid-lower range stuff meant for the European market such as its popular city bike components. Not sure if they have the higher range components such as XT and Ultegra made there though ... Need to verify on this. 

As for SRAM, a fair bit of its sub-component parts are done in Taiwan. And parts of latin America as so it seems. 

As for Campagnolo, a lot of its mechanical components are outsourced to Eastern Europe, in places such as Poland and Czech Republic. And assembled in its Italian factories.


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