# teamkit supplier review(s)?



## lonefrontranger (Feb 5, 2004)

Hi all,

well it's fall / silly season and once again our club is having the same old argument... err, make that discussion about clothing suppliers for next year's custom teamkit order. Our club has 75-100 members, about 35-50 of whom race pretty frequently, and it seems like we go through this every year. 

I went on the review board hoping to find an easy link to reviews of suppliers who do custom team orders. Examples: Voler, Squadra, Verge, Pactimo, Hincapie, et. al. What I found instead was a bunch of links to generic piecewear. 

For these purposes, I don't so much need to know how much riders like their Performance jerseys or Assos bibs for Ride the Rockies. What I need to know is whether the Verge/Hincapie/Garneau custom kits hold up over a couple seasons' hard use, if their stuff stretches and/or fades, how the sizing runs, if they offer women's / juniors' sizing, and compare minimums and pricing among suppliers in one easy-to-locate site/matrix, and maybe other stuff like if the customer service reps are easy to deal with and what accessories (if any) they offer (extras like socks, gloves, arm/leg warmers, etc...). 

From my past experience, even browsing through the piecewear reviews won't help us much, since suppliers' custom teamkit can really vary greatly in quality/pricing in comparison to the generic piecewear they sell to shops, plus there are other variables like how long leadtimes run and how big their minimums are.

Any suggestions? Thanks!!


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## kef3844 (May 30, 2008)

Champion Systems, they are the Best . Low minimums.

They have two cuts race and club. the race is for the skinny fit folks.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

We use Voler
200+ members, 100+ racers.

2010 team price list

http://voler.com/downloads/sales/Voler_Price_List.pdf


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## wetpaint (Oct 12, 2008)

Champion System has the worst bibs I've ever worn, but their jerseys are really nce. Race cut Jerseys fit well and don't stretch out too much with the back pockets full, the zippers work well.

Its rare to see anyone on our team actually wearing the Champ Sys bibs, they usually just wear some other shorts instead. The chamois isn't very good on the shorts and the seams are not sewn very well, they stick up all around the edge of the chamois and are very abrasive (ie. painful on rides longer than 2 hours)

The gear is holding up well with tons of washings and don't seem to get thin or fade


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Champion Systems is alright if just ordering jerseys, although the Champ Sys jerseys I have aren't top quality and don't seem to hold up the best. Not a fan of their chamois!

Kalas: sizes run very small. No experience with shorts, but the jerseys don't hold up the best.

Voler: very nice all around. I have both chamois and they're both pretty nice. 

Garneu: top notch all around and best racer chamois! Their low end bibs aren't the greatest, but the high end is what racers use for a reason.


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## rockstar2083 (Aug 30, 2005)

We use LG - Jerseys are good. I don't like the chamois (prefer Voler chamois) and the bibs are a little smaller in straps than others (primarily impacts tall guys). The shorts also wear a little more than Volers. If it was my choice, I would go Volers but I can live with LG. LG is affiliated with the shop that gives us team discount so LG it is.


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## Keeping up with Junior (Feb 27, 2003)

*Voler*

Gotta put my plug in for Voler. I have never been disappointed by their product.

Have placed orders for our club (100+ jerseys) and tandem rally (400 jerseys). My persepctive from being the organizer for these orders is that Voler is great to work with. You work directly with one artist on your design. They give you deadlines up front to meet and if you meet your deadlines they meet their promised ship date. The way they mix and match on short sleeve items and long sleeve items makes it pretty easy to meet minimums (i.e. a vest and a SS jersey count towards the same minimum). Multiple cuts to fit all body sizes (race, club, womens...) and once again mix and match within different cuts for one minimum. I would caution you that having a jersey sizing party with samples from Voler is a must, these are cut like bike jersey so if people order based on their fattie T-shirt size they will be disappointed.

Our team has used Voler the last 2-3 years and my son's former team also used them. Jerseys, bib shorts, skinsuits... all fit well. Durability is good for at least a couple of years if not longer. I give my kit TLC and my kid can barely find the laundry room and neither of us wear the Voler stuff out. Chamois is good for centuries or crits.

Previously had some LG kit and their particular chamois rubbed my particular butt raw. We probably had the lower end LG chamois and overall I would say most vendors have upgraded their chamois the last few years so be sure to get some current feedback. The LG jerseys were good quality.


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## crj (Jul 31, 2006)

Our club ordered Verge kits and the zippers on the jerseys are terrible. Some even messed up right out of the bag.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Keeping up with Junior said:


> Previously had some LG kit and their particular chamois rubbed my particular butt raw. We probably had the lower end LG chamois and overall I would say most vendors have upgraded their chamois the last few years so be sure to get some current feedback. The LG jerseys were good quality.


Their blue Comfort Chamois can do that if some sort of chamois cream isn't used. When I got my first kit, they hurt like a mofo and I stopped using them all together until someone mentioned chamois cream. Once I started using Assos, I thought the LG shorts were the best there ever was.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

Yeah, check the fit on Voler stuff, last year they started making their bibs bigger, so that you now have to order a smaller size. Jerseys come in "club fit" and "race fit".
"club fit" is for large people.

PS. I've heard that Kalas is having big problems, financially. (as in stiffing some customers)


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## lonefrontranger (Feb 5, 2004)

*thanks all, keep them coming*

This is already very helpful. I posted the link to this thread in our club forum so that they could see what the disinterested third-party opinion was. It's too bad RBR doesn't (yet) have a separate review section strictly for custom clothing suppliers, but c'est la vie. Maybe something to ask Gregg about.

Keep them coming, I really appreciate the feedback!


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## Creakyknees (Sep 21, 2003)

Garneau or Voler.

Not Champ Sys - their bibs about killed me with a saddle sore (and I never get saddle sores).

For sizing, I believe they all offer a sizing kit, will ship you a bunch of samples to try on at a club meeting.


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

Our club/race team has used both Pactimo and Squadra over the last couple years...Currently using Pactimo.

I like the feel of the Pactimo Jerseys better, and the Pactimo shorts better...however I like the padding of the Squadra shorts better. The Pactimo padding seems to be narrower than the Squadra shorts.

As far as durability goes...the Squadra gear seems to be holding up just fine going on it's second year and lots of washings, races, rides, trainer use, etc. The Pactimo gear is holding up just as well for me so far with no quality issues at all.

Sizing seems to be good on both, though the Pactimo gear runs just a bit smaller than the Squadra, but not by a lot...both are race fit and not club fit so I don't know about the fitting for those.

I will say that if you have large orders Pactimo gives a whole lot of options when it comes to gear they can put together for you. We have been able to get skin suits that are felt lined with knicker bottoms for cross season, light and dark jerseys, long sleeve, short sleeve jerseys, nice mid weight jackets and vests, arm warmers, knee warmers, caps, shoe covers...bascially you name it and they can get it made for you.

With that said our race team is now approaching 85 members and our club over 500 members...so we have some flexibility when dealing with clothing manufacturers


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## lonefrontranger (Feb 5, 2004)

Wookiebiker said:


> Our club/race team has used both Pactimo and Squadra over the last couple years...Currently using Pactimo.


Wookiebiker, any specific reasoning behind the switch? I recall Squadra as being very expensive, or was it simply convenience related?

From my recollection, Verge kit was very good quality fabrics and fit. Unfortunately their chamois appeared to have been sewn in with something resembling high-test fishing line and consequently was akin to sitting in a bag of barbed wire. This was as of 2002, however, so I'm not willing to project my obsolete disdain upon their current technology as I've no recent experience with them. This is partly why I'm posting this thread - I would like to hear RECENT (like, within the last 12-24 months) experience.

My club in 2003-04 used Pactimo and I liked the customer service, quality and fit, and the stuff seemed to last quite well. Again, however, this is not recent info.

Most kit suppliers these days appear to have (very recently, like within the last 12 months) adopted a "welded" stretch chamois technology which would likely eliminate any thread/seams/stitching discomfort issues in the pad, am I correct?


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## Wookiebiker (Sep 5, 2005)

lonefrontranger said:


> Wookiebiker, any specific reasoning behind the switch? I recall Squadra as being very expensive, or was it simply convenience related?


From my understanding several factors were included in the switch. 

*One*, Pactimo was a bit cheaper but still had very good quality. 

*Two*, Pactimo is more local for us compared to Squadra. 

*Three*, more variety of clothing they were willing to put together for us. If we have an idea, we can run it by them and at a minimum they will listen, but seem to be able to do all kinds of stuff for us as long as the numbers are there.



> Most kit suppliers these days appear to have (very recently, like within the last 12 months) adopted a "welded" stretch chamois technology which would likely eliminate any thread/seams/stitching discomfort issues in the pad, am I correct?


Not sure about the "Welded" stretch chamois...my issue with the Pactimo chamois is that it's smaller than the Squadra chamois. For most people this isn't much of an issue, but I have wide sit bones and need the wider chamois for comfort reasons. Most on my team really like the chamois, I'm just in the minority here


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

Although my team no longer uses them (for reasons that aren't important), I really liked our Capo Forma kits, particularly the bibs (pricey, but really comfortable, for me anyway).


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## CoffeeBean2 (Aug 6, 2005)

A few perspectives:

- My team is currently using Champion Systems. I have had no problem with the jerseys or the bibs. The chamois has not bothered me on longer rides.
- One friend's team is using Giordana. He has nothing but praise for the Giordana stuff. Not sure on the pricing or minimums.
- Another friend's team is using Vermarc. Again, very high praise. So much so he wants to find non-team Vermarc stuff to supplement his team stuff. Not sure of the pricing or minimums.


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## kef3844 (May 30, 2008)

Creakyknees said:


> Garneau or Voler.
> 
> Not Champ Sys - their bibs about killed me with a saddle sore (and I never get saddle sores).
> 
> For sizing, I believe they all offer a sizing kit, will ship you a bunch of samples to try on at a club meeting.



I remember them fitting different than the Giordana my team uses,no sores though. After a couple rides the are fine. Sometimes it just takes a little bit of time to get used to new bibs. 
One reason I like CS is all the different gear you can get. Speed suit, tights, booties, cyclocross skin suit, long/ short sleeve skin suit, vests, etc. My team currently uses Giordana and I think it's overpriced and the bibs are fragile, but comfy. Giordana jerseys are cut for fat a$$ bulky cyclists. My med CS fits better than sm giordana.
I'm not a big guy (5'8 138-9) and do not like baggy jerseys. Everyones different though, and it's tough to reach a consensus for a team, especially if it's a large one.


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## lonefrontranger (Feb 5, 2004)

Wookiebiker said:


> From my understanding several factors were included in the switch...


thanks, this is AWESOME, exactly the kind of feedback (on any supplier really) that's helpful.



Wookiebiker said:


> Not sure about the "Welded" stretch chamois...


from my understanding and investigation, it's a new type of adhesive technology that's come into use in the past couple years that eliminates the need for sewing the pad in. No threads means no seams, no seams meaning a lot smoother butt interface.

I get it about the pad width deal - this is the biggest challenge with teamkit; there are always outliers on the bell curve.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Well, this thread is pretty timely. The TT1 pro team and club kit LG contract is up. Apparently there were problems getting things late in the season. Personally, I hope LG makes ammends, although if the new kit is similar, I might see if I can snag some remaining LG shorts, depending on the new brand.


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## kbiker3111 (Nov 7, 2006)

Mt Borah has an interesting border process. Once you meet the minimums for a certain style and design, there are no minimums in the future. So if you have a small team that orders sporatically, its nice to not worry about minimums once a year and be able to submit a new order whenever there is need.


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## absolutsooner (Feb 26, 2009)

How do the jackets fit compared to the Jerseys for the Champion System?


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## scarecrow (Oct 7, 2007)

Our team/club has been using pactimo for the last 3 years. They came out with a new top end bib (Summit) that is very good in terms of comfort and fit while riding. It is better than anything else I have used such as Pearl Iz. etc.. Another thing I like is the little details they put into the Summit line like the reflective piping on the jerseys and vests. I ride at night all the time so that is nice. It also has a little hidden pocket with a gap in it for ipod's or a race radio. Their stuff holds up well. Their rep is responsive and when we have had an issue they did their best to take care of it. Another plus is that Pactimo can set up an on-line store for your club so people can order online. That is nice if you have a big team. We had some fit issues with their stuff a few years ago but it is much better now and as I said the new summit bibs are real nice.


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## jake21 (Jul 29, 2005)

I have a LG fit kit right now. So far, everyone likes the fit and fabric very much. The bibs are very comfortable and the two styles of jerseys are perfect. We pull the trigger next week.

We used canari three years in a row. Jerseys didn't fit good for us. Chamois were not that good, but they did improve a little last year.

I ordered a Hincapie fit kit a few weeks ago. I thought the Chamois leaved much to be desired and the bib cut made it impossible to pee without removing your jersey. Sad. They are using a full hidden zip next year. I thought that was nice.


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## Undecided (Apr 2, 2007)

jake21 said:


> I have a LG fit kit right now.


Is the vest still significantly bigger than the same-sized jersey? I thought the jerseys fit well, but the vest was baggy, flapping in the wind.


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

We used Pactimo for 2008/09. They offer three lines of shorts/bibs and jerseys plus cold outer wear, kids, womens, tri and running clothes and accessories like caps, arm warmers, shoe covers, etc...You can order xxs to xxxl and xxxxl on the lowest jersey line. Pricing is set on volume of 5+, 25+, 50+, 100+ and 200+. 

Summit Line

High end race cut jersey and bibs. The jersey is full zip, light weight and cut tight. The pockets are narrow and high which lead to minor trouble getting stuff in and out. Little tears developed as a result. Zip is a little small for me but we have had no trouble with them. Stitching and rubber grippers around the waste are holding up well. I ride a lot, but think this jersey would easily hold up for a couple seasons. The bibs are excellent as the chamois is one of the better I've used. The chamois has held up well this season and will be used going into next season. Stitching is ok. Fabric is textured and pretty thin but very stretchy, cool and comfortable. Leg grippers are really nice in that there is no huge seam digging into your leg and they are very stretchy to accommodate guys with larger legs. One of the few short that I never felt the grippers while riding. These bibs run long so I went a size down. Pactimo said they designed these to compete with the Assos F1.

Jersey pricing ranges from $79 (5+) to $63 (200+).
Bib pricing ranges from $129 (5+) to $99 (200+).

Ascent Line

Race oriented but, more affordable than Summit. Bibs and shorts both offered with a lower end chamois that is a bit thinner, different shape and material than the Summit. The short material doesn't stretch as much as the Summit and not as comfortable on long rides. After one season, the short chamois has worn out and the fabric is getting very thin in spots (inside of thighs and upper butt area). Different grippers as well. Not nearly as comfortable as the Summits and a bit tight for guys with huge legs. Jersey is not nearly so tight fitting. Same full zip as the Summit. 

Jersey pricing ranges from $69 (5+) to $54 (200+).
Short pricing ranges from $72 (5+) to $54 (200+).

Continental Line

More of a club cut all the way around and the most affordable of the three lines. Two choices of chamois. I don't know how these fit, feel or hold up... They do offer 15cm, 45cm and full zips on the jersey.

Jersey pricing ranges from $62 to $47.
Short pricing ranges from $58 to $44.

Other

Arm warmers are a bit thin and tight as compared to Pearli or Voler. Not sure on the leg/knee warmers. The thermal jacket was really nice. Huge zipper. Seemed durable, warm and repelled mist ok. The vest is nice but doesn't have back venting like other vests so when it gets a touch too warm you can sweat a bit early. Overall quality was good enough to recommend.

I've heard for 2010 they have two different lines of Summit. A jersey which addresses the problems we had with the rear pockets and a bib that has the wide super stretchy leg grippers ala Louis Garneau. They plan to continue the current Summit line as well. Don't have a clue on pricing. No idea of other changes.


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## Kai Winters (Aug 23, 2009)

I've ordered from Voler and Verge.
The team and club riders/members have been very happy overall.
Make sure you get sizing samples...there is always someone complaining that the size they ordered is incorrect...company sizing methods vary and getting samples to try on is a very worthwhile effort.


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## ericm979 (Jun 26, 2005)

I have been pretty happy with the Voler apparel that my club uses. The jerseys are well made and with the race- and club-cut options there's a jersey that fits tall thin people like me (6', 140 lbs... the small club cut fits best).

The shorts used to not work for me- the chamois was in the wrong place- but that's been changed and they are quite comfortable. Can't say about the bibs as I don't use them but my club mates seem pleased. Voler also has really nice vests and WARM winter jackets that are great for wearing before a race or to put into a clothing bag for a high-altitude summit.

Voler has delivered on time or close to it. With a club of 3-400 members that's a large order.


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## bill (Feb 5, 2004)

We used Voler for years. Switched to Sugoi for last year. 
Sugoi materials are better, no question. Also 30% more expensive. But, crazy quality control issues -- seams blew out, zippers. holes. They made good on it all through warranty discounts on the following order, and the current iteration seems to be problem-free. So far.
But Voler is not bad. I have stuff years old that held up pretty well. And the price is right.


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## up_hiller (Mar 20, 2002)

I bought a Voler race fit jersey 6 or 7 years ago that I still wear. It is in great shape despite numerous unintentional dismounts from my MTB. The fit is as good as any jersey I have ever worn.

My college team several years ago ordered from Squadra. The jersey was nice, and the shorts are still my favorite pair, although the white side panels are a little dingy now. They have the top-of-the-line chamois, one step above KISS, but I can't remember the name. Overall, the Castelli stuff is awesome. The arm warmers are really nice. Squadra let the club order additional non-custom apparel at reduced prices, so I ordered a couple of pairs of plain black shorts in addition to my race uniform. That was a nice "perk" of doing business with them.

I just bought a new Giordana pro fit jersey. Haven't worn it yet, so I can't speak for longevity, but the fit is exactly what I wanted, and I love the full-length zipper.


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## estone2 (Sep 25, 2005)

I've got experience with Capoforma, LG, and Pactimo.

Capoforma bibs are incredible. As are their jerseys. They're pricey, but mine are running on 3 years and are still by far the most comfortable clothing. They're second to none. Excellent longevity.

LG is great - very comfortable. It isn't as nice as Capo, but it's still REALLY nice, and price considered, LG's better than Capo. Excellent longevity.

I've used Pactimo. Not a big fan of their chamois. The pockets are _really_ high. But otherwise good longevity. Not so great longevity. Their vests DO have pockets though, which seems to put them in the minority. Pockets on a vest are great!


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## woodys737 (Dec 31, 2005)

I just tried on the 2010 Pactimo Summit Pro bib and jersey. The bibs have the same cut and chamois as the original Summit bibs (which they still offer), but they have a different leg gripper. The gripper is a compression style one almost exactly like the one found on the Louis Garneau Equipe bib. The only annoying aspect of the LG and the Summit Pro is the stitching on the gripper seam. It digs into my leg and gets kind of itchy feeling after a few minutes.

The jersey is wider cut around the love handle area as compared to the original Summit jersey. Therefore, the pockets are wider and easier to get in and out of. Material looks to be the same.


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## litespeedchick (Sep 9, 2003)

We had Pactimo last year and really liked the vests. We liked the pockets, the reflective piping and the heavier material. Our squadra vests from 2007 were too thin to be worth much. This year we used Hincapie. We ordered the "polar" vests, and they are warm as hell, and have pockets. But the sizing is HUGE. That is our biggest problem w/ Hincapie stuff. Very nice quality, but the fit kit they gave us had nothing to do with what we actually got, and it was difficult to get an answer on whether sizes were women's or unisex. Guys probably wouldn't have such an issue. 

Oh, and the Pactimo chamois looked AND FELT like a washboard. The Hincapie chamois is very nice.


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## pigpen (Sep 28, 2005)

We switched from Champ Sys to Canari. I like the Canari much better.
But next year I am going to suggest Hincapie. I just picked up one of their jerseys and it by far nicer than either Champ or Canari. I have not tried their shorts but after comparing all my jerseys it is well made and the zipper is really nice. (full zip)


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## cbuchanan (Mar 6, 2006)

Awesome thread so far everyone. Very helpful information throughout so I though it was worth bringing to the top.

We have used LG for the last two years and I really like it. The chamois needed a little getting used to but, it rocked after a couple rides. Great durability. I have a couple kits that get regular use throughout the year and get used during 'Cross season that are still holding up well.

Does anyone have experience with V-Gear, Verge's "little sister" line of clothing? I assume that is is lower quality than the Verge line itself.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Now that this one is up n' running again, anyone have experience with Biemme team stuff? I believe the continental pro team is cinching up the final details, but that's the brand. I was kind of hoping they'd stick with LG another year or two. I know LPR and AG2R used them.


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## Sherpa23 (Nov 5, 2001)

Panache can't be beat when it comes to fit and quality. And they're in Boulder.


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## goneskiian (Jan 13, 2005)

I can only really comment on Squadra and Castelli as those are the most recent kits my team has used.

In the past I've also used Hincapie and Voler. Hincapie we also had issues with as it was their first foray into custom kits. Yes, I'm a little tired of being a guinea pig! :smilewinkgrin: Voler was good stuff 8 or 9 years ago! :lol:

I would have to say my favorite stuff to date has been Squadra even though I'd tend to wear holes in the shorts after a season of rubbing on saddle edges or saddle bag straps. 

Not sure if many folks are aware that Castelli is doing custom stuff now and they're US headquarters are in Portland, OR. Last year was the first for Castelli and it was a bit of a nightmare with sizing and some materials. We switched from Squadra (based in SoCal) because the guy that started our team wanted to help Castelli get their custom line rolling. No, our team is not a democracy. :lol: :lol: :smilewinkgrin:

They've worked it out for the most part and we already have our 2010 kits. Very nice stuff. I'm proportioned like wookiebiker though and the chammy is just too narrow for me. The padding completely misses my sit bones. At least they got the leg grippers right this year though and we don't have shorts that ride up our legs when wearing knee or leg warmers. 

Sizing is more spot on too but definitely runs small. I've had to go up at least one size and in some cases 2 sizes in stuff to get the right fit.

I haven't ridden in it much yet but this new stuff from Castelli is very nice and could very well be the best I've ever been in. The shorts are great (despite the narrow padding) and have thicker, more abrasion resistant panels on the inside of the legs. They're also pretty low cut in the front with the straps set out to the side further. Very comfortable and not restrictive to breathing at all (also really easy access for when you've got to pee  ). The jerseys are definitely a race cut and I might have to go up a size as it's quite tight across my chest and shoulders when standing upright but is quite comfortable when I "assume the position". Not being built like a typical bike racer this isn't a surprise.

This is for the full zip jersey which is more of a traditional jersey. They also have an aero jersey that is only half zip. The aero jersey front is all stretchy lycra with a mesh material on the back and pockets. This is a jersey that's meant to be very tight.

This is the stuff you've seen on the Cervelo Test Team this past year and before that on the Saunier Duval team (when Millar and Ricco where on the team).

Here's some shots of our new kit on our newest team member...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/krykisports/sets/72157622970671250/

Cheers!


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## trener1 (Jan 22, 2004)

*Verge*

I have been running a team for about 6 years, over that time I have used a few different brands, last year we went with Verge and I am extremely happy with them, in fact we just placed am order or some winter gear for the team.
You have a choice of the Classic or Elite line, depending on how much you want to spend.
The quality is good, I had no issues at all with the zippers that someone posted about, they delivered on time, the art department was easy to work with and the sales department was great.
Not sure the size of your team, but our team is on the small size and they were very flexible with helping us fit our order into their minimum's.
Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.


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## Eric_H (Feb 5, 2004)

I have worn lots of Louis Garneau team kit over the years, they are easy to deal with and generally get the clothes done on time. The fabrics and construction quality is very consistent, though I have seen some inconsistency in sizing from year to year. For instance I was in LG from 2000-2004 exlcusively and the size M jersey fit was very snug in 2004 compared to other years. Back to LG in 2006 and the jerseys fit larger again. Not a big deal, but strange nonetheless. And no I was not fat in 2004 .

Keeping with Canadian theme, since I am a Canuck, I have also had Sugoi in the past. Nice quality, but they are pricey with high minimums. The stuff used to be all made in Canada but I think it is all out-sourced to China now. A smaller Cdn company is ATAC, http://www.bikeatac.com. Used them in 2005 and 2008 and IME, I would not recommend them as the product is just not up to par especially the bib shorts. And the sizing is wacky, the pro-cut is at least a full-size smaller than any other pro-cut I have worn. I will say ATAC has improved but they are not nearly as good as LG or Sugoi.

I have used Giordana team kit for one year in 2007, it is probably the nicest stuff I have used. Great color, great fit. I do know they are expensive and require high minimums plus there were some delivery delays but it was super-nice kit. The club side of my team for 2010 is still using Giordana and I bought some for training just because I like Giordana stuff so much. The race team kit is coming from Suarez, a Colombian company http://www.suarez.com.co/. I have not tried the Suarez stuff yet but other guys who used it last season seem happy with it. I should have my kit over the holidays so I will ride the bibs and report back.

Last year my team kit was Descente, mostly because the local Veltec rep was sponsoring and we wore Descente kit with Veltec logos. Great kit, lasted all season with many washings. Bibs remained snug and the chamois was high quality and did not break down over the season. Too bad Descente does not do custom kit for the masses, this stuff was close at the Giordana/LG level of quality.

To the OP, Lonefrontranger - your numbers are very large so minimums will not be an issue. I say if money is not a huge concern then go with Giordana. You will not be disappointed. I also think Capo looks superb but I have not tried any of their team kit.


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## mikeharper123 (Jan 14, 2009)

Has anyone tried Hindcapie? I have some of their stuff and it seems nice, but I dont know about team orders.....


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## Eric_H (Feb 5, 2004)

goneskiian said:


> Here's some shots of our new kit on our newest team member...
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/krykisports/sets/72157622970671250/
> 
> Cheers!


OT here:

Hey Ian, are you guys stepping up the Lenovo team in 2010? I was surprised to see McIssick not signed to a team like Bissell or TT1, he is a beast. Anyway, I am sure I'll see you sometime next season, have a good winter!


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## Keeping up with Junior (Feb 27, 2003)

*Biemme*



spade2you said:


> ...anyone have experience with Biemme team stuff?


Our team had Biemme 4-5 years ago. Had problems with zipper pulls breaking, zipper slides not working properly and the stitching on pockets ripping out. The company was okay about resolving the problem other than having to wait several weeks for properly made kit. Nothing is more annoying than to heat up in a race and not be able to adjust the zipper. Short chamois were okay, nothing fantastic but did not rub my butt raw. I still ride with a couple of Biemme winter jerseys although I use a fishing lure for a zipper pull on them. If I were choosing they would not be at the top of my list for vendors but I would not quite a team because I refuse to buy/wear their stuff. Just dont pay a premium price.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Keeping up with Junior said:


> Our team had Biemme 4-5 years ago. Had problems with zipper pulls breaking, zipper slides not working properly and the stitching on pockets ripping out. The company was okay about resolving the problem other than having to wait several weeks for properly made kit. Nothing is more annoying than to heat up in a race and not be able to adjust the zipper. Short chamois were okay, nothing fantastic but did not rub my butt raw. I still ride with a couple of Biemme winter jerseys although I use a fishing lure for a zipper pull on them. If I were choosing they would not be at the top of my list for vendors but I would not quite a team because I refuse to buy/wear their stuff. Just dont pay a premium price.


Good to know. Thanks. I was planning on 2 skin suits and maybe one shorts or bib with jersey. If I would have known we'd drop LG, I would have tried to get another pair of shorts or two. Of course, if it looks like last year's kit, I'll just get the skin suits. Naturally, my luck is never that good.

Do you recall if they were sized differently than other companies like LG?


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## hoogerland (Sep 18, 2009)

Sherpa23 said:


> Panache can't be beat when it comes to fit and quality.


Bam! I was going to say Panache, very good stuff, as good as it gets. 


The OP lives in Colorado and living in this state with the extreme cold and blistering sun makes me think that there are few clothing companies out there that can meet our needs. For example, our team went with Primal last year, junk. Even though Pactimo is popular I have a team kit from them and it fits weird and seems pretty basic, no frills, and average. I bought some Vermarc stuff from Boulder Cycle Sport - awesome. The Belgians seem to know a bit about all conditions riding. Our team went with Capo this year and so far so good. It seems really to be of high quality.


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## Keeping up with Junior (Feb 27, 2003)

*Sizing*



spade2you said:


> Good to know. Thanks. I was planning on 2 skin suits and maybe one shorts or bib with jersey. If I would have known we'd drop LG, I would have tried to get another pair of shorts or two. Of course, if it looks like last year's kit, I'll just get the skin suits. Naturally, my luck is never that good.
> 
> Do you recall if they were sized differently than other companies like LG?


It's been a while so check current sizing, here is a comparison to Voler. I am 6'0" 155#

Jersey - M (club cut) L (if race cut) -> Bieme M
Bib Shorts - M -> Bieme M
Skinsuite - L (need length from crotch to shoulder) -> Bieme L


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Keeping up with Junior said:


> It's been a while so check current sizing, here is a comparison to Voler. I am 6'0" 155#
> 
> Jersey - M (club cut) L (if race cut) -> Bieme M
> Bib Shorts - M -> Bieme M
> Skinsuite - L (need length from crotch to shoulder) -> Bieme L


Gotcha. Good to know. I assume they'll send us some sort of sizing kit....I hope. I might contact a rider or two to see what size they are so I can get my skin suit on pre-order.


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## goneskiian (Jan 13, 2005)

Eric_H said:


> OT here:
> 
> Hey Ian, are you guys stepping up the Lenovo team in 2010? I was surprised to see McIssick not signed to a team like Bissell or TT1, he is a beast. Anyway, I am sure I'll see you sometime next season, have a good winter!


Surprised!?! You and me both! :lol:

Yes, I believe the goal is to step it up a notch or two. We've got some other young guys with pretty big engines and some goals to go along with them. We need to get them their Cat 1 upgrades so we can send them to some bigger races. Hopefully the old farts on the team that already are 1's (including yours truly) can guide them along to some great results. Having McKissick (or "Little Ian" as I call him) on board should really help. Ian's a really great guy and very willing to share his knowledge and experience.

Having him on board is sure lighting a fire under my arse that's for sure!

Sorry for the OT banter. Back to your regularly scheduled programming...

I finally did a ride in our new shorts and team issue leg warmers. You'll notice in the McKissick pictures that they are black. Well, stretched over my large carcass that black fades to more of a grey hue! :lol: :smilewinkgrin:

They are really very comfortable though!

Cheers!


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## Coolhand (Jul 28, 2002)

Voler has a very good rep for customer service and quality for the price. They are my default. Their maybe "better" shorts out there, but they are often $20-30 more (from $50 to $70-80) which your members may balk at.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Just got some good news. Found out that the Biemme kits will be almost identical to last year's kits. That certainly means I won't need to buy nearly as much crap. Still planning on a few kits since some of my older stuff is starting to wear out.


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## Eric_H (Feb 5, 2004)

*Follow-up on Suarez*



Eric_H said:


> The race team kit is coming from Suarez, a Colombian company http://www.suarez.com.co/. I have not tried the Suarez stuff yet but other guys who used it last season seem happy with it. I should have my kit over the holidays so I will ride the bibs and report back.


OK, I promised some follow-up on Suarez team kit.

Jerseys - I have long-sleeve thermal and regular weight short-sleeve. The fit is race cut and size M fits my skinny upper body (6', 168 lbs narrow shoulders) quite well. The construction is very good on both items though and the fabric seems to be of comparable quality to Louis Garneau or Giordana. The graphics are well done with sharp sublimation. I have only ridden with the LS jersey and it should be fine for races in the 40-50 F range with a vest or windblocker undershirt.

Vest - Made from some form of windblocker material with a mesh back and 3 mesh pockets. The windblocker material is a little heavier than some, it feels like a two-layer item. The size is M and it fits me quite snugly, definitely a race cut vest with not much room to spare so it won't be flapping in the wind. The pockets are probably useful for food or a light rain vest in a race situation but they are not robust enough to be housing lots of stuff on a training ride.

Bibs - Always the most critical part of any kit. The good - the lycra is very heavy weight and has good compression without being too snug. The straps are perforated lycra, much like the Giordana team kit. The stitching is flat seam and the shorts have a great sublimated wrap-around panel. The indifferent - the chamois is not one-piece, it is made of a high-density center section with less dense sides and front stitched together. The stitching is very, very flat which is good but usually any stitching on a chamois is a red-flag for me. The chamois is also very large in surface area but not overly thick, which is good. The bad - the thigh grippers are kind of old school with 3 white "rubberized" thin bands. In terms of construction I would say the bibs are well-built but maybe a little lacking in the latest technology. How does this translate? I have ridden in them only twice, first ride was 2 hours last week, and yesterday I did over 4 hours in them. They are pretty good overall, the chamois is well-padded and I never once thought about them on yesterday's ride and the seams did not bother me one bit. I do use a liberal dose of chamois creme for all rides (DZNuts yesterday). I am wearing size L in the bibs, mostly because the team order was a little short on M this time and I will get some M in the next batch in April. In reality I am probably a tweener in these shorts, much like Garneau or Giordana. Size L fits great when new but after a few months they stretch out a bit and feel a little loose where size M fits me really snug until I have a month in them. I usually prefer to be sized-down and will do so when the M are available to me.

Overall the Suarez kit seems to be pretty decent quality, quite close to Garneau or Giordana. I think the pricing is a little cheaper than Giordana, and probably on par with Garneau but from what I have seen Suarez can turn the order around much quicker than either of them. They also have thermal jackets, skinsuits, warmers, booties. I did not get any of this stuff this run but I might get a skinsuit in the April order.


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## tsutaoka (Mar 4, 2005)

our team has capo http://www.uplandsg.com/capo_custom/index.htm

quick order fulfillment + really nice bibs/jerseys/jackets/vests. i personally like the double zippers on the jackets/vests and purchased non-team capo for recreation riding


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## MarvinK (Feb 12, 2002)

Anyone know details for Castelli? It seems really weird they wouldn't put any details about minimums, pricing, etc. on their website.


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## kdtx (Apr 15, 2009)

Pactimo sizing seems to run small.

I wear large t-shirts and large club cut (not Pactimo) jerserys. I need an XL in their race cut Summit jersey.

Shorts: I tried on the Summit large. Looked incredibly small, but fit ok. Material was pretty stretchy as someone else mentioned. I prefer bibs so am not keeping the shorts. 

Can anyone who wears Pactimo Summit bibs vouch for their sizing? Pactimo says that all bib sizing is the same cut in the leg openings and hips. Only real difference is in the length. I am short (5'7' but stocky at 185) I am having a hard time ordering Small or even Medium bibs.


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## spade2you (May 12, 2009)

Just got some of last year's Mt. Borah leftovers. Not the most impressive company, but adequate. I guess my only gripe is that the chamois is a tad on the thick side. They still work for me, but I once had to wear my thermal tights over the Mt. Borah bib shorts and it wasn't comfortable for me. 

I just picked up some new DeMarchi stuff, too. The jerseys have stretchy arm material, which seems nice. The bib shorts are very nice with a lower cut front that most companies. The chamois is extremely nice. The only thing lacking is compression cuffs, otherwise they'd be my absolute favorite bib shorts.


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## CHT (Mar 1, 2001)

MarvinK said:


> Anyone know details for Castelli? It seems really weird they wouldn't put any details about minimums, pricing, etc. on their website.


Just call them (or PM me). Our team kit is Castelli. It's a bit more than some of the other options (not a lot), but I can vouch for the improvement in quality over some of the other options. Unlike the other options out there, the service is more personal and you don't get lost in the shuffle. Our prior kits got the job done, but they did not have the same quality in both feel and details. For some, it may not be worth the incremental cost. I believe there were 10 piece minimums on most items, and any subsequent orders were not subject to the minimum but had an additional fee if you were under the minimum. My kit is probably some of the highest quality (and costly) pieces of bike clothing I own, but then again I spend way more hours in the kit than some of my other bike clothing.


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## calle_betis (Jun 30, 2006)

kdtx said:


> Pactimo sizing seems to run small.
> 
> I wear large t-shirts and large club cut (not Pactimo) jerserys. I need an XL in their race cut Summit jersey.
> 
> ...


Bump. Anyone around 5'9, 190# who has purchased Pactimo Summit or Ascent bibs and jerseys recently?


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## lonefrontranger (Feb 5, 2004)

calle_betis said:


> Bump. Anyone around 5'9, 190# who has purchased Pactimo Summit or Ascent bibs and jerseys recently?


OP here.

I am not anywhere near this build, but I have to say - we switched to Pactimo this year after a very bad experience with Panache. 

Pactimo is very nice stuff however I would not recommend the Summit stuff for anyone with a stocky build. It is built for small, skinny Euro racer types and the sleeves and legs run longer than standard (for compression/support), in case that matters. If you have to size up in Summit because it's too tight for your build, then you run a risk of looking pretty weird in it because the shorts become more like capris or knickers and the sleeves run halfway to your elbows. 

The Ascent stuff is a little more forgiving but their sizing in general all seems to run pretty small according to the guys on the team. I wear Summit mediums in women's stuff and am in smalls in every other brand out there including Castelli. Our elite guy usually orders XS in everything and goes with smalls in the Summit kit.

I really wish they'd do the leg bands in the women's high end Summit shorts like the men's (a soft "self" edge with no elastic and a gentle gripper that doesn't bind). I love everything else about my Summit shorts but hate the tight narrow elastics and may end up cutting them.


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## B-Fun (Nov 15, 2005)

Saw this and had to weigh in. 

Would love for any and all to test out some of my company's clothing - BPC Performance Apparel. We are based out Memphis, TN. We are relatively new to the market and have spent the past year dialing in our clothing line. We now have teams as far as California wearing our team kits. 

The primary thing that we are focused on is our customer and constantly improving their experience with us and our product. We understand that there is not going to be one clothing size that fits all, nor will there ever be the "perfect" kit design.

What we are trying to do is take feedback from our customers and get as close as possible to the perfect fit and the perfect cut. If you or your team would like samples, hit us up on our website - BPC Performance Apparel - Custom Technical Gear. We started out as endurance athletes, endurance coaches, and managers of two different local teams and quickly saw some areas that needed to be changed with regards to custom endurance apparel. We'd love to chat more with you about what we have and how we can help!

End sales pitch now!


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