# Cristallo ride report......



## Jwh445 (Dec 2, 2002)

I was elated to receive my Colnago Cristallo two weeks ago from WrenchScience. Since then I have ridden about 400 miles. This is the most comfortable bike I have ridden. It is also the most responsive to pedal input. My first bike was a Trek 400 then, Raleigh Technium, Trek 2300, Trek 5500, Specialized S-works, Merlin Agilis, this covers approximately 25 years of cycling. To be fair, I ordered this bike to be comfortable, 1 size larger frame with a shorter stem. This reduced my saddle to bar drop without adding an aesthetically displeasing number of spacers. I also think the wheels are helping with my ride input; Chris King hubs laced to DT Swiss RR1.1 with DT Revolution spokes. I am waiting for a backordered 202P freehub from Zipp to test ride with my 404s.

I have ridden Shimano and Campy; obviously it was time to give SRAM a try. I got the SRAM Force with a Dura-Ace cassette and chain. Rear shifting is smooth, both up and down. The front leaves something to be desired, with no trim it is very hard to set up the front der to eliminate chain rub. I am actually thinking about moving my Campy Record left brake/shifter and front der to my new bike. In the mean time, I think I've eliminated most chain rub, but with compact cranks I seem to be looking for the 11 alot more than before.

I also gave the Zero Gravity brakes a go. They work well and are a little lighter but they are certainly not pretty.

One of the best changes I made was to go back to non-anatomic bars. I remembered riding for long periods on the flat sections of the bar ends, in the drops. The anatomic bars never gave me enough room for my whole hand. A welcomed blast to the past for me.

I have done one metric century and one 150 mile event along with a few training rides inbetween. The ride is silky smooth and the acceleration is instant and effortless. My one dissapointment is, no matter how much you spend on a bike, it's still hard to ride uphill and into the wind, go figure.

One of the pictures is with a teammate of mines, Bontrager Aeolus wheelset.

John


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## mriddle (Nov 16, 2005)

*What size is that frame?*

Looks like 52 sloping? Nice bike, you gotta love PR00!


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Glad to hear that you like your Cristallo.

I got my first paint chip on my Cristallo today, and I almost sat down on the side of the road and started crying. I was hammering down a hill to get some speed for the climb that was about to come up. As the climb started, I began moving to larger cogs, but then finally decided to move to the small ring. Well, I threw the chain. I tried to get it back on by moving to the big ring and the chain got wedged between the small ring and my chainstay. Got off the bike, got my hands dirty, and prayed that the chip wasn't too big. It's kind of small, but I am about to post in Bikes, Frames, etc. and Wrenching to see if anybody knows how to repair the clear on these frames. I've had the frame an entire year and put 3,000 miles on it, so I guess it was about time to get a chip in it. I'm going to have problems sleeping tonight.


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## clm2206 (Sep 12, 2006)

fabsroman said:


> Glad to hear that you like your Cristallo.
> 
> I got my first paint chip on my Cristallo today, and I almost sat down on the side of the road and started crying. I was hammering down a hill to get some speed for the climb that was about to come up. As the climb started, I began moving to larger cogs, but then finally decided to move to the small ring. Well, I threw the chain. I tried to get it back on by moving to the big ring and the chain got wedged between the small ring and my chainstay. Got off the bike, got my hands dirty, and prayed that the chip wasn't too big. It's kind of small, but I am about to post in Bikes, Frames, etc. and Wrenching to see if anybody knows how to repair the clear on these frames. I've had the frame an entire year and put 3,000 miles on it, so I guess it was about time to get a chip in it. I'm going to have problems sleeping tonight.


Use a "dog fang" and avoid the problem. Even pros like Valverde use them


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

clm2206 said:


> Use a "dog fang" and avoid the problem. Even pros like Valverde use them


Holy Cow! You kidding?

I finally put together my Campy rig when I was back in the States (full Record triple drivetrain with Chorus brakes/shifters) and I thought it was just me, with all the chainsuck. Only triples I've used before are Shimano ATB setups and those are so simple: just one click up and down per ring and no chainsuck or chain falling off the big ring. There is no trim on Shimano ATB front triples either (you use the lever to force an upshift if you have to).

It got so bad with the overtrimming that I took all the hills in my 42/25 since it was such a pain in the ass to drop to the small ring! :lol:


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Do you have a link where I can buy a "dog fang"? I have no idea what that thing is called, but it looks like it would solve my problem. I don't drop the chain often, but when it happens it is a PITA.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

fabsroman said:


> Do you have a link where I can buy a "dog fang"? I have no idea what that thing is called, but it looks like it would solve my problem. I don't drop the chain often, but when it happens it is a PITA.


It's called a 3rd Eye:

http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?...n+Watcher&vendorCode=THIRDEYE&major=6&minor=8

REI sells it too. I guess if it's good enough for Valverde, it's good enough for you and me!


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## Jwh445 (Dec 2, 2002)

I have a question. My frame/fork was delivered without any protection on the chainstay. Is it not necessary to protect the carbon fiber chainstay from chain slap? Or, was this just overlooked?

John


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## clm2206 (Sep 12, 2006)

fabsroman said:


> Do you have a link where I can buy a "dog fang"? I have no idea what that thing is called, but it looks like it would solve my problem. I don't drop the chain often, but when it happens it is a PITA.


I've noticed the chain will sometimes drop if both you shift to the small chainring and you hit a bump in the floor at the same time. If you are hammering changes get bigger. This is as far as I've noticed, no scientifical basis at all. Notice almost every pro-bike on races such as Paris-Roubaix or Tour de Flanders do have one of these devices installed.

I've googled where you can buy a Deda Dog Fang in the US, and besides the Excel link, I've found it in the following sites:

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/CG409B11-Deda+Dog+Fang+Roadbike+Chain+Guide.aspx

http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/p/SSCHG/CH5800

http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=K1108

http://www.speedgoat.com/product.asp?part=110999&cat=310&brand=66

Best regards!!


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

It's not overlooked, but it is necessary. The clear coat will get all scraped up on the chainstay if you drop the chain. I use a clear chainstay protector from Lizard Skin, along with the Lizard Skin clear squares to protect the frame from cable rub at the head tube. Wish I had heard of this 3rd Eye/Dog Fang before now. I would have put that on the bike as I was building it. Live and learn I guess. Now, I get to learn how to fix a clear coat chip.


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## tmluk (Sep 19, 2005)

Sorry to hear about the chain-suck "fabsroman". Consider yourself lucky; it could have been worse. I am sure the clear coat can be repaired and get yourself one of those "dog-fang". I have seen serious damages on steel, Al, Ti and CF bikes.

I read that there is still a very, very slim chance the chain could still fly around and get stuck between the chainwheel and the chain-stay when the chain slips off the chainwheel and onto the dog-fang. The chain has to be very loose for this to happen I think.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

Jwh445 said:


> I have a question. My frame/fork was delivered without any protection on the chainstay. Is it not necessary to protect the carbon fiber chainstay from chain slap? Or, was this just overlooked?
> 
> John


Sorry, you don't get a lot of freebies with Colnagos . Moreover, Colnago would have to fabricate a chainstay protector to fit the diamond stays of a C50.

At least with Pinarellos, what's included in the price of say, a Paris Carbon is an installed fork with headset ($65 for the headset), a rebadged Selcof seatpost ($229), the best seatpost collar I've seen (two-piece Miche I believe), and a thick chainstay protector. If you had the headset installed ($15?), you'd need to subtract at least $310 from the Pinarello price to compare to a Colnago. Both my Douglas Ti and Giant TCR Comp 1 also came with chainstay protectors, although it's really not needed with Ti.

After I build up my C50, I plan to use a frame protection kit (forget the name). During buildup, it's a good idea to duct tape the top and down tubes where the bar/stem tends to swing around, as this often happens before you can install the cables. The end of the bar/stem or brake calipers can chip the paint.

At least Colnagos have braze-on front derailleurs. With Pinarellos, it's clamp-on, which invariably leaves an imprint.


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## Bianchi67 (Oct 16, 2005)

A 3rd eye or dog fang won't fit on a Cristallo. It needs to be clamped around the seat tube a the elevation of the inner ring. The Cristallo's massive BB extends above that point (at least on mine).

See this picture
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=1201066#poststop


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I was afraid of that. I haven't had time today to go out and look at the bike. Some of the guys in the Frames and Wrenching forums have asked me to take a pic of the chip so they can advise me, and I haven't even been able to do that. Heck, I couldn't even find time today to go on a ride and it was 70 and sunny with almost no wind. What a beautiful day it was.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

fabsroman said:


> I was afraid of that. I haven't had time today to go out and look at the bike. Some of the guys in the Frames and Wrenching forums have asked me to take a pic of the chip so they can advise me, and I haven't even been able to do that. Heck, I couldn't even find time today to go on a ride and it was 70 and sunny with almost no wind. What a beautiful day it was.


Normally you'd think a double road setup (with a relatively large inner ring) would be particularly amenable to a 3rd Eye. Pinarellos have oversized bottom brackets but the seat tube is standard diameter almost all the way down to the junction (that's why it fit on Valverdes 2005 Opera with M.O.ST BB).

But take a closer look at the Cristallo BB, Fabrosman. The 3rd Eye has to mount parallel with the inner ring - no way. The big ring maybe, but that's the wrong ring .


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Just finished taking the crank off and taking a closer look at the chip. Not only are you definitely right about the Dog Fang/3rd Eye not being able to work, but it also looks like there is a stress crack a cm back from the chip. This entire carbon frame thing is a PITA. Now I have to worry about whether or not I damaged the structural integrity of the chainstay, and the chip looks like it is right at the joint between the BB and the chainstay. What a headache.


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## tmluk (Sep 19, 2005)

Again, sorry to hear about that. I helped my friend to install a "dog-fang" onto an over-sized seat-tube. It is like the picture depicted in the thread. Cut part of the collar off and use tie-wrap to secure the dog-fang onto the seat-tube. A "dog-fang" is always one of the must get items when I built up my bikes now.

This chain-suck damage is not really a CF problem. I have deep gouges on my Merlin Ti (lesson learnt). I've seen a totally chewed up thin tube steel frame as well. Are these bikes ride-able ... you be the judge. My Merlin is my communting bike now - someone please steal my Merlin.


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## clm2206 (Sep 12, 2006)

tmluk said:


> Again, sorry to hear about that. I helped my friend to install a "dog-fang" onto an over-sized seat-tube. It is like the picture depicted in the thread. Cut part of the collar off and use tie-wrap to secure the dog-fang onto the seat-tube. A "dog-fang" is always one of the must get items when I built up my bikes now.
> 
> This chain-suck damage is not really a CF problem. I have deep gouges on my Merlin Ti (lesson learnt). I've seen a totally chewed up thin tube steel frame as well. Are these bikes ride-able ... you be the judge. My Merlin is my communting bike now - someone please steal my Merlin.


Hi

Urged for the need of some chainkeeping device, and probably forbidden by the sponsors to use the well known Deda Dog Fang, some mechanichs do funny things like this stuff, spotted on Alessandro Ballan Willier Le Roi at this year Tour de Flanders.









_Photo linked from Cyclingnews.com, thank you!!_

Are you skilled enough to build one for your Cristallo?

Regards


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

Anybody got a pic of these anti-chaindrop devices on a Shimano setup??? While I imagine you might see some during Paris Roublaix, I'd have to think it's far less common.

The chaindrop I experience on my Campy triple setup (Record at that) has been attributed to incorrect adjustment and lack of Campy trained fingers, but afterseeing all these pics of devices which add weight to pro bikes, I'm not so sure about that. I never have chaindrop or chainsuck problems on any of my Shimano ATB bikes or my Shimano double road bike - not unless the front derailleur is way out of whack.

One of my future projects is a 14-lb triple bike, and I've decided not to go Campy despite my stockpile of Record triple components. Front shifting on the Shimano is much simpler due to the lack of micro trim of the front derailleur. That is the reason SRAM went without trim on their new design. They said trim distracts.

Moreover, the shifting on a DA triple with the customized tooth profiles on the big ring and those stiff, scalloped chainrings has to be awesome. I think I can still build a 14-lb bike despite the weight disadvantage versus Campy. What's the sense of having a triple if it's such a hassle to change rings, or you risk chain drop on a steep hill??? You are jamming the chain with a lot of torque against the frame. Sorry Campy :nonod:.


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## edmundjaques (Dec 29, 2005)

Clevor said:


> Anybody got a pic of these anti-chaindrop devices on a Shimano setup??? While I imagine you might see some during Paris Roublaix, I'd have to think it's far less common.
> 
> The chaindrop I experience on my Campy triple setup (Record at that) has been attributed to incorrect adjustment and lack of Campy trained fingers, but afterseeing all these pics of devices which add weight to pro bikes, I'm not so sure about that. I never have chaindrop or chainsuck problems on any of my Shimano ATB bikes or my Shimano double road bike - not unless the front derailleur is way out of whack.
> 
> ...


I have an FSA Carbon triple chainset on my MXL and never had one problem shifting up or down through all three rings. I've had several (character building) chain detours on each of my other Colnagos - all Campag - but nothing yet damaging. I'm going to take a really close look at my C50 tomorrow though. Might just have to buy that EP now.


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## Bianchi67 (Oct 16, 2005)

That appears to be a Campy braze-on FD with a Campy seat tube clamp. The chain guide is attached with the braze-on mounting bolt. I wonder if someone sells these?


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## clm2206 (Sep 12, 2006)

Bianchi67 said:


> That appears to be a Campy braze-on FD with a Campy seat tube clamp. The chain guide is attached with the braze-on mounting bolt. I wonder if someone sells these?


Seat tube clamp? It seems more a saddle rail tube (solid Ti) solded to a curved plate with a hole in it, wich is bolted to the FD braze screw


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## Bianchi67 (Oct 16, 2005)

clm2206 said:


> Seat tube clamp? It seems more a saddle rail tube (solid Ti) solded to a curved plate with a hole in it, wich is bolted to the FD braze screw


I agree. The seat tube clamp is the piece with the Campy letter, to use with a braze on Fd.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

How does the cable tie work on the dog fang? I can kind of see how it is in the photo, with a piece of rubber between it and the frame on the back side, but how does it fit through the dog fang to secure it to the frame? Would I need to cut/drill holes in the dog fang to get it to work with my oversized tubing? Can anybody post pics of how to fabricate the dog fang so that it will fit on an oversized tube?


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## tmluk (Sep 19, 2005)

fabsroman: The dog-fang is secured around the seat-tube via a screw at the dog-fang (see posted pic). So to modify a dog-fang for an over-sized seat-tube ...
(1) Get the largest diamater dog-fang.
(2) Add a drop or two of crazy glue to the dog-fang gap and fasten the screw completely. Let it dry.
(3) Cut part of the collar off ... say 1/3 off.
(4) Drill a hole at each end of the collar and thread a tie-wrap through it.
(5) Align the dog-fang onto the seat-tube and tighten the tie-wrap.

Oh, by the way, the bike I modified the dog-fang for is a Shimano Ultegra that keeps dropping chains. I agree that most chain-dropping is due to improper set-up, but Campy more likely than Shimano  the pros will definitely complain. No problems with my Record set-up. The chain can drop while down-shifting on rough roads when bad luck strikes. See how the chain bounces around in Roubaix videos - scary. It is like an insurance policy for a :thumbsup: grams.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I'm going to buy one of them for all my bikes, but I doubt I am going to be able to get it to work on the Cristallo. I was looking at the BB last night and it looks like the excess material goes higher than the small chainring. So, it will make it impossible to mount a dog fang, any which way, so that it will stay next to the small chainring.


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## Jwh445 (Dec 2, 2002)

{knocking on wood} I have never had a problem dropping the chain inside of the small chainring on Shimano or Campy. I am having problems dropping the chain outside of the large chainring using SRAM Force with an FSA C-16 FD. When setting the stops to not get any chainrub, it allows the chain to overshoot when halfway down the cassette. Do they make a large dogfang, maybe a German Shepard K9 tooth apparatus. I am getting the Force FD from WrenchScience, hopefully this will solve my problem.

John


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## hfc (Jan 24, 2003)

Since you guys already hijacked the thread once, I'm gonna hijack again. Beautiful Cristallo! I have an E1 which from what I understand is the precursor to the Cristallo, same frame construction except it has the B-stay instead of curved seatstays. I love mine and have found it to be very stiff and responsive but comfortable enough for century rides. 

Anyway I've had a creak in the frame (bottom bracket shell area) which I've pursued exhaustively without success. Does anybody know why Colnago went to the Cristallo design after such a short run with the E1? Were there any problems with that frame design that could say ... lead to some annoying creaks or bottom bracket problems?


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

I haven't heard a single thing about there being any problems with the BB on the E1. However, I'm not an expert on it either.

My take on the switch from the E1 to the Cristallo would be based on marketing. By updating frames every couple of years, you make people want the new frame. Gun manufacturers do the same thing. They change a small thing on a gun and then give it a new name, and people will want to buy it. I almost fell for it myself, both with guns and frames.

What BB are you running on the bike? Have you tried using a different BB and crank to see if the noise stops? Are you sure it is the BB? I had a riding budding think that his BB was creaking, but when I listened to it, it seemed to be coming from the seatpost area. When he stood on the pedals, it went away.


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## tmluk (Sep 19, 2005)

The Ti BB shell of the E1 is the same as the Cristallo, C50 and Extreme bikes, I believe. Be aware that all hi-end Colnago bikes have Italian thread BB, i.e. the left BB cup has right-hand thread (tighten cw). What I have noticed is that all three of my Colnagos have a tendency of the left cup becoming just so slightly loose which can cause creaking - my Master did.

My fix is to wrap the BB cup threads with a few layers of plumber teflon tape which keeps it nice and tight. GOOD LUCK.


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## hfc (Jan 24, 2003)

Thanks guys.

I currently have FSA with a platinum pro Ti BB on it. I switched to a Campy Chorus BB and crank without any effect. I also lubed/tightened every fitting on the cranks and used teflon tape on the BB. Took it to the LBS and they found a cracked lockring on the FSA crankset but of course that also hasn't helped much, if any. 

Last night I put a different rear wheel on and I wasn't able to reproduce the creak on the bike stand so I might be on to something, even though the creak I'm 98% sure comes from the BB shell area. I'll take her out for a spin tomorrow to see for sure. Wish me luck...


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Good Luck!!!!!!!

I hate creaks.


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## rossb (Oct 11, 2005)

fabsroman said:


> My take on the switch from the E1 to the Cristallo would be based on marketing.


I think this is right. I remember when the E1 came out, it got some good reviews, but it wasn't clear who it was aimed at, since it was quite heavy for its price, and although it would have been ideal for some bigger riders with enough cash to buy it, people looking to spend that kind of money generally prefer something lighter. So Colnago knocked a couple of hundred grams off, gave it some sexy new seat stays and it became more popular. Pity, because I think the E1 concept was a good one for someone - like me - who is not a lightweight, who rarely races but wants a solid, stiff, somfortable bike, and I would actually have bought one instead of the Cristallo if it had still been around. Having said that, I do love the Cristallo.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Totalcycling.com still has some E1's in 50 and 52 sloping if that works for you.


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## hfc (Jan 24, 2003)

*Yesss!!!*

Took the E1 out for a spin yesterday and the creak was completely gone! Stood up and hammered on it, big-ringed it up a hill, tempo paced for a while and it's back to the good old bike I used to know. Like riding on a monorail. I hart my E1 again!

I used the regular rear wheel (DT Swiss Hub/Velocity rims) and simply put some lube on the quick release and contact points with the dropout. It may not be a permanent fix but if need in the future I might use some fine sandpaper and smooth out the surfaces of the dropouts. I had the frame clear-coated back in the spring and the creak probably developed after the initial stickiness of the clear coat loosened up.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

hfc,

How did you get the frame re-cleared? I am assuming that it was cleared to begin with. Did you get somebody to do it, and if so, did they strip the old clear first or just put a new coat of clear over the old one?


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## Bianchi67 (Oct 16, 2005)

I had an alum bike that I couldn't stop from creaking, thought it was the BB. I finally found that it was the front wheel. If I tightened the QR so I had to put alot of pressure to close it, the creaking stopped.


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## hfc (Jan 24, 2003)

fabsroman said:


> hfc,
> 
> How did you get the frame re-cleared? I am assuming that it was cleared to begin with. Did you get somebody to do it, and if so, did they strip the old clear first or just put a new coat of clear over the old one?


I sent it to Calfee. It had some dings in it and they touched up the paintwork and re-coated the frame. I'm not sure if they stripped the old stuff off first. Frame looked like new when I got it back.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

hfc said:


> I sent it to Calfee. It had some dings in it and they touched up the paintwork and re-coated the frame. I'm not sure if they stripped the old stuff off first. Frame looked like new when I got it back.


Calfee, by the way, can do carbon fiber repair too. But if they don't like the original design of a piece of carbon work, they'll reject the job, e.g., Cinelli ram bars with the infamous crack down the middle.


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## fabsroman (Jul 14, 2006)

Can they repair Zipp rims? I cracked a Zipp 303 in a race and there is now way I want to continue riding on it, but it is hard to swallow a $600+ loss.


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## Clevor (Sep 8, 2005)

fabsroman said:


> Can they repair Zipp rims? I cracked a Zipp 303 in a race and there is now way I want to continue riding on it, but it is hard to swallow a $600+ loss.


Calfee might:

http://www.calfeedesign.com/howtosendrepair.htm

Have you looked into Zipp's crash replacement policy yet? I think you can get a new wheel for something like $380-400.


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## Jwh445 (Dec 2, 2002)

I too chased the same creak, 99% sure it was coming from the bottom bracket. But, when I changed rear wheels, it went away. Ended up tightning the cassette and this alleviated all creaks. This was on my old Merlin Agilis.

John


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