# Serotta "Concours" Ti or Moots "Vamoots" Ti?



## kmb

I have the opportunity to get either the Serotta "Concours" Ti frame (3rd down in their line), or the Moots "Vamoots" Ti frame. The Serotta will cost me about $200 more. I realize they are "custom built". I am wondering if anybody out there has specific experience with either, and which one would they recommend? Is it worth another $200 to get the Serotta? Does not seem like a lot of extra money, but I am trying to keep costs down as much as possible since the complete build will cost me quite a bit.

Look forward to comments.


----------



## j-son

Both are nice. The stock geometry on the Moots makes for a pretty quick handling bike. Moots seat tube angles are a little steeper than standard Serotta. It really comes down to which bike fits the best and how you want it to handle. Both are at the very top end of ti builders. Also, the geometries are quite a bit different between the Moots and the stock Serotta.

Out of curiosity, if you are trying to keep costs down, why these frames, which come from very high end builders? I'm sure you could find a Litespeed Classic for much less, which would be as good a ride, if not as 'exclusive' or 'pretty'.


----------



## kmb

Thanks for your input. Would you happen to have the geometry info. for the "stock" Serotta Concours? Also, which frame do you think is stiffer? And lighter?

I realize these are near the top end of frame builders, but I want to start with the best foundation to my build that I can afford and build out (and maybe upgrade later) from there.


----------



## j-son

I dont have the exact numbers for the Concours, but my Serotta had 73/73 seat/head angles. I would bet the Serotta is stiffer, although the Moots is no wimp. The Colorado Concept tubes make for a pretty stiff BB area. I've ridden a bunch of Serotta ti frames (most were Legends, though) and they were all very stiff. They didnt ride at all like the 'soft-magic carpet ride' of some ti frames. Serotta also arent known for being light. i'd bet the Moots is lighter. Moots offers a stunningly beautiful 'tie-dye' finish that is very cool. If it were me, I'd probably opt for the Moots.


----------



## Bixe

*Geometry....*

You might have a look at Serrotta's 'Buy One Now' page where they list a handful of various stock models with limited sizing information....


----------



## Len J

*Geometry*



kmb said:


> Thanks for your input. Would you happen to have the geometry info. for the "stock" Serotta Concours? Also, which frame do you think is stiffer? And lighter?
> 
> I realize these are near the top end of frame builders, but I want to start with the best foundation to my build that I can afford and build out (and maybe upgrade later) from there.


The Serotta Concours comes with custom geometry. That means that you will not just get a bike sized to you, with the correct angles for you, but also with a tubset selected for your weight and the type of riding you actually do.

See:
http://serotta.com/pages/concours.html


I think (but could be wrong) the vamoots is a stock geometry. Only you (or a competent fitter) will know if that will work for you.

See:
http://www.moots.com/bike-rd-vamoots.php#specs

As to the two bikes. They do have different rides. I would suggest that you test ride both (even if you have to travel to do it). you are spending a chunk of cash........at the end of the day, the ride is what is really important.

Some other differences:

Moots: Most people would say that Moots makes the most beautiful Ti welds there are. There is a noticable difference. I'm not sure that that translates into anything else but looks, but that's a personal opinion.

Serotta: If you want any part of the frame painted, Serotta's Paint shop and choices are top notch. I'm not sure, but I think the only choice with Moots is bare Ti. Don't know if this is important to you or not.

In the end, as I say, the rides are very different. The Serotta is a little more stable, especially at speed, due to the lower BB. The Moots is, to me, a little twitchier, but some people love it. The biggest difference to me is that the Serotta is a little stiffer, it feels faster. Again, it depends on what you want.

Both bikes are great bikes......find the one that rides the best for You.

Good Luck

Len


----------



## kmb

Len J and j son - thanks very much to both of you for taking the time to respond. I appreciate the input and information.
kmb


----------



## Nessism

*Actually...*



Len J said:


> In the end, as I say, the rides are very different. The Serotta is a little more stable, especially at speed, due to the lower BB. The Moots is, to me, a little twitchier, but some people love it.
> 
> Len



A lower bottom bracket will make the handling a little quicker when turning, not the other way around, since the lower center of gravity makes the bike lean into turns easier. A high CG bike will want to steer straight and tend to fall into turns, but will have more straight line stability. These differences are very subtle and most people will not notice.

For a racer, the high bottom bracket trumps the lower because the extra ground clearance is necessary for pedal clearance.

Serotta frames tend to use slack head angles where as Moots are fairly steep. This is the main reason a Moots will steer faster, not the low Serotta bottom bracket.

Ed


----------



## Ricky2

kmb said:


> I have the opportunity to get either the Serotta "Concours" Ti frame (3rd down in their line), or the Moots "Vamoots" Ti frame. The Serotta will cost me about $200 more. I realize they are "custom built". I am wondering if anybody out there has specific experience with either, and which one would they recommend? Is it worth another $200 to get the Serotta? Does not seem like a lot of extra money, but I am trying to keep costs down as much as possible since the complete build will cost me quite a bit.
> 
> Look forward to comments.




Come on. There is no choice once you compared the welds of both bikes. MOOTS hands down. Serottas are nice, but overrated.


----------



## Bocephus Jones II

Ricky2 said:


> Come on. There is no choice once you compared the welds of both bikes. MOOTS hands down. Serottas are nice, but overrated.


Welds make absolutely no difference in the ride. In the case of these 2 bikes, both are top notch anyway, but it really doesn't make a difference unless you are more interested in hanging it on the wall rather than riding it. Battleship grey TI is boring to me in any event. Utilitarian for sure and low maintenance, but give me a great paint job anyday for looks.


----------

