# favorite Italian Steel frame



## Moonnerd (Feb 18, 2012)

For my fellow fans of Italian steel frames, if you could have one frame (from the present or past), which one would you pick,and why? I know these kinds of questions have been asked a lot, but usually not limited to Italian steel. thanks for all the great posts that are about to come!


----------



## radair_fr (Oct 20, 2009)

Owner of a Scapin RS I would go for the last Scapin Spirit R8. Scapin is one of the best welded frame I've ever saw. The Tommasini X-Fire is also a wonderful machine.

For older model I'd say Gios Compact Pro (I owned one, it's beautifil with the gold plated screws), or Colnago Master Olympic.

Regards


----------



## Moonnerd (Feb 18, 2012)

I'm really glad you mentioned the Scapin and Gios. They are great bikes that are often under the radar. I love the Azzuri blue of the Gios. How is the compact pro ride compared to some of the more famous bikes?

I have an early 90s Bottecchia with chrome lugs and Campy Super Record that was a Russian team bike. I've never seen a more beautiful bike. The only problem is it's a 56 and I am more like a 54. But I got such a great deal on it and I love it so much that I made adjustments to it and got it to fit pretty well and have been riding it for a dozen years.


----------



## merlin3008 (Jul 6, 2007)

Colnago carbon hands down if from Italy.


----------



## Moonnerd (Feb 18, 2012)

For steel, would the Master be as good of a frame as they have made, or would there be a better Colnago from years past?


----------



## frpax (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm partial to Pinarello, since I used to own one.
I lust after a Pegoretti (old or new).
Colnago, DeRosa, Ciocc, Tomassini, Bottechia & Gios are all on the short list.


----------



## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

I haven't actually tried enough of them to be a good judge, but I can say that the two best Italian steel frames I've tried are a mid-1980's Guerciotti and my current 2011 Colnago Master. In terms of sheer looks, if I were to go gaudy it'd be one of those red, white and chrome Bottecchias. If I were to go for sheer elegance it'd be a 1950's Bianchi or 1960's Cinelli. I have to say, though, that the one Cinelli I actually rode, from the mid-80's, felt disappointingly anonymous.


----------



## Moonnerd (Feb 18, 2012)

you mentioned the gaudy red white and chrome Bottecchia... mine is just like it but black, white and chrome. Its just plain awesome. I love the Mapei name, by the way!

Tell me more about your Master. Its on my very short list if I ever get another bike.


----------



## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

Moonerd. A link....

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/general-cycling-discussion/colnago-house-colnago-house-252488.html


----------



## Rogus (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd pick my Gios torino Super Record.


----------



## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

Guerciotti outsources all their steel frames. Depending on who the contractor is they can be great or horrible. 
I special ordered one and it was the worst piece of garbage I have ever seen, a kid in grade 9 shop class could have made a better frame. Meanwhile, two other frames in the same shipment were beautiful. And a fourth was also a piece of crap. Peeling chrome--while still in the box---big flakes of rust, mismatched frame and fork size, clearance so large the Campagnolo brakes couldn't reach the rims, no I wouldn't recommend Guerciotti to anyone. 

Gios...I had a Brooklyn style Gios Record from 1977. Awesome. I think that big fat chrome fork weighed as much as my Dogma frame. It was a nice bike but the technology has moved on eh! It was stolen in 1989. 

Cinelli is my fave obviously. Tracks straighter than any other steel frame, and seems stiffer with its SP downtube and chainstays. Paint and chrome are okay except for contact points at dropouts and where a klutz at the LBS chipped the chrome headlug installing a headset. Not too much weight penalty. And it was a daily commuter for almost 25 years, so no complaints about durability. It even got hit by cars twice without damage.


----------



## Moonnerd (Feb 18, 2012)

THis thread is bringing out the coolest names and Avatars. Thanks for all your replies.

Mapei - Thanks for the link! I love your Colnago, and think your new handlebar tape looks awesome. Your post regarding carbon vs. steel explains exactly how I feel. I've got a wonderful Giant Defy Advanced with Chorus components thats a sweet ride. But yet I'd like a modern steel bike for my 50th birthday splurge/midlife crisis. I guess thats a lot better than buying a Corvette or something. I think the Master is leading the pack, but I'm also thinking about a Cinelli, Masi, Gios, Pelizzoli, Moser, etc. 

Keep those great ideas coming!


----------



## foggypeake (Sep 11, 2005)

I love my Scapin. 

Sorry that the pic is huge.


----------



## paredown (Oct 18, 2006)

Well, If I could have a stable and money were no object:

1. Mid '60s Cinelli Super Corsa--heck I'd even be happy to have my old '60s Model 'B' back..

2. Colnago Tecnos 2000--last year and probably the lightest of the steel frames that Colnago made;

3. 70s Colnago Super or Mexico in Faema colors

4. Gios Compact

5. Bottechia (late 80s) with the Spumoni paint and chrome (or the red/white would also be cool--heck, I'd even take the dayglo yellow/purple ADR one);

6. Pegoretti--TBD--I'd have to try a couple to see which one;

7. Early 70s Masi--I'd consider the early California ones or an Italian one...

8. Edit: How could I forget to include and early 80s De Rosa.


----------



## terry b (Jan 29, 2004)

Colnago MasterXLight because there can be no other choice


----------



## radair_fr (Oct 20, 2009)

Some pictures I've got of my steel babies.
Those pictures are not really great, but there are the only ones I've got on my PC.
I made some modifcations since those pictures were taken.

The Scapin is my winter training bike, and I use it quite a lot with different wheelset : Open Pro, Open Pro Ceramic, even Ksy SL. It performs wonderfully. However it's quite heavy : 9kg

I'm only using the Gios with sunny days. 

Regards


----------



## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

I still have my early 80's Bianchi RC, built with Columbus TSX ultralite. I raced it for many years, until I went over it's max racing weight. The TSX couldn't handle the extra 20 pounds in a race situation, so I finally went with an American made, modern steel, frame, that doesn't seem to mind my extra flab.
The bike is built up with Campy 8 speed Chorus, and rides well, as long as you don't tear through the corners at 30 mph. I still ride it a few times a year. In it's "retro mode" I use some old Spinergy Rev-X wheels.

Of course, it's Celeste, with Celeste bar tape.


----------



## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

I've covered it many times before on these boards so if you must hear me again.... 

Keep in mind that I don't have experience with most of these (unless I note otherwise) and my rankings have changed a little over the years. My favorite Italian steels based on what I have seen and lusted after growing up:

1- De Rosa Primato or Neo Primato
2- Tommasini (own a Columbus Nemo-tubed Tecno which is a GREAT ride)
3- Masi
4- Mondonico (own a Columbus EL OS Futura Leggero which is my all-time favorite riding bike)
5- Gios Torino (owned a Columbus SL "Professional". Smooth and comfy. Wish I still had it)
6- Colnago Tecnos or Master X-Lite
7- Ciocc (or Pelizzoli Curdomo)
8- old Guerciotti
9- old Bianchi Reparto Corso
10- old Bottecchia (the red, white and chrome one- Love the look of that one!)


----------



## skill3 (Feb 18, 2012)

First would be my Colnago Equilateral. It rides a little harsh, but is very responsive. For all time fun, my Rigi. It keeps you on your toes and it is quick.


----------



## Moonnerd (Feb 18, 2012)

Ride-Fly - I love your list. And as for that Bottecchia - you mean something like this?


----------



## mike1217 (Aug 3, 2011)

I'll start off by saying hello, as this is my first post.

now my contribution, I have a Colnago tecnos, pre 2000 model, not sure of the exact year, but she is a beautiful, light, and lively frame, and while it is my only experience with Italian steel, I feel as though you cant get much better


----------



## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

Moonnerd said:


> Ride-Fly - I love your list. And as for that Bottecchia - you mean something like this?


That is a beautiful bike!!! 

I always thought I liked the red, white and chrome one better but yours is the second black and white I've seen and now I am not sure I like the red one better!! 

I saw one on the Fresno CL and the guy was asking $1000. It was pristine but recently it has been flagged and so who knows. 

Yea, I love those old Bottecchias!!!


----------



## Moonnerd (Feb 18, 2012)

Welcome Mike! What a first post! You fit right in!!


----------



## Richard (Feb 17, 2006)

Although I've ridden more than a few, the only Italian I've owned have been a Battaglin Stephen Roche Carrera Team Replica (which I stupidly sold) and my current NOS Bertoni TSX (made by Daccordi).

I remember the Battaglin with affection but I absolutely love the Bertoni. It's a bit over the top (in that inimicable Italian way) but what the heck, it's a crowd pleaser.


----------



## Moonnerd (Feb 18, 2012)

Ride-Fly - I don't know if you saw your Private Message, but there is a Red, White, and Chrome Bottecchia on Ebay right now. the sale ends in about an hour.


----------



## PRB (Jun 15, 2002)

Though I've ridden a lot of miles on my old Ciöcc, love the way it rides and never want to part with it, I'd have to pick the Responsorium if I could have only one. It is the nicer ride.

If I was choosing something I didn't own my short list would contain:
De Rosa
Somec
Pogliaghi
Freschi
Galmozzi


----------



## Ride-Fly (Mar 27, 2002)

PRB said:


> Though I've ridden a lot of miles on my old Ciöcc, love the way it rides and never want to part with it, I'd have to pick the Responsorium if I could have only one. It is the nicer ride.
> 
> If I was choosing something I didn't own my short list would contain:
> De Rosa
> ...


Wow PRB, the last two are some obscure names in Italian cycling for most people, including myself! 

BTW, I want a Pelizzoli Curdomo almost as much as the De Rosa Neo P in Faema! When we move to Germany, I am going to take a visit to the Gios shop in Turin and <must, have to, will> pick up a new Gios Record!


----------



## PRB (Jun 15, 2002)

Ride-Fly said:


> Wow PRB, the last two are some obscure names in Italian cycling for most people, including myself!
> 
> BTW, I want a Pelizzoli Curdomo almost as much as the De Rosa Neo P in Faema! When we move to Germany, I am going to take a visit to the Gios shop in Turin and <must, have="" to,="" will=""> pick up a new Gios Record!


I've always like to have something different. From what I've read, (I've not seen either in person) both made very high quality frames. 

Pelizzoli makes some nice stuff - I'm very happy with my Corsa GP. I like the new fork dropouts on the Curdomo but the threadless fork is a turn-off for me. Still, I wouldn't say no.

You should enjoy Germany, it has some great riding spots. And the Gios, well, that's a very nice ride....early congrats. :thumbsup:

</must,>


----------



## gomango (Aug 30, 2006)

terry b said:


> Colnago MasterXLight because there can be no other choice


I've owned two and they are nice.

My current favorite of the Colnago steel framesets has to be the one I currently ride, a 1993 Elegant in the "Wordperfect" scheme.

EL-OS goodness, and I can't wait to try her with the new set of Veloflex Master 22s I have on order.

EL-OS trumps Gilco. imho


----------



## PaxRomana (Jan 16, 2012)

PRB said:


> Pelizzoli makes some nice stuff - I'm very happy with my Corsa GP. I like the new fork dropouts on the Curdomo but the threadless fork is a turn-off for me. Still, I wouldn't say no.


+1. I have my eye on a Pelizzoli Aeta. Superb looking frame.


----------



## gomango (Aug 30, 2006)

PaxRomana said:


> +1. I have my eye on a Pelizzoli Aeta. Superb looking frame.


Agreed.

On the very short list for my wife, and it looks like it could be one of the few bikes she could upgrade from, as she currently rides a De Rosa Primato.

Ride Fly- Questions about Deutschland?

Fire away. My wife is Bavarian and we go every third year to visit her family. I've been there nine times, and we are currently considering a purchase of a home very near Berchtesgaden and Ramsau.


----------



## majorbanjo (Dec 12, 2010)

I just bought this frame that I'm currently building.......


----------



## Cinelli 82220 (Dec 2, 2010)

*Freschi*

Freschi were imported by Bikecology back in the bike boom. 
The most unique feature I remember was the use of pulleys for cable guides at the bottom bracket. 
There's some good pics on the Classic Rendezvous site.

Bikecology imported all kinds of neat bikes. They had a "touring" version of the Colnago Super I have never seen anywhere else. It looked like a regular Super but with fender and rack eyelets.


----------



## PaxRomana (Jan 16, 2012)

The inspiring thing, at least to me, about steel frames is that when I see them, I remember that there is so much more to cycling than getting from point A to point B in the shortest amount of time. Carbon race bikes are about the destination. Steel bikes are about the journey.


----------



## orbeamike (Nov 20, 2004)

Based on what I currently own:
1) '82 De Rosa Professional
2) '02 Colnago Master X lite
3) '89 Guerciotti SLX


----------



## Bridgestone (Sep 6, 2007)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> I still have my early 80's Bianchi RC, built with Columbus TSX ultralite. I raced it for many years, until I went over it's max racing weight. The TSX couldn't handle the extra 20 pounds in a race situation, so I finally went with an American made, modern steel, frame, that doesn't seem to mind my extra flab.
> The bike is built up with Campy 8 speed Chorus, and rides well, as long as you don't tear through the corners at 30 mph. I still ride it a few times a year. In it's "retro mode" I use some old Spinergy Rev-X wheels.
> 
> Of course, it's Celeste, with Celeste bar tape.


TSX ultralite was mid nineties ,not early eighties. BikePedia - 1995 Bianchi TSX Chorus Complete Bicycle
<img src="https://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww261/tomslawns/IMG_1476_2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*how about*



terry b said:


> Colnago MasterXLight because there can be no other choice


Colnago Tecnos?


----------



## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

I'd say Pegoretti at this point in time


----------



## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

PaxRomana said:


> The inspiring thing, at least to me, about steel frames is that when I see them, I remember that there is so much more to cycling than getting from point A to point B in the shortest amount of time. Carbon race bikes are about the destination. Steel bikes are about the journey.


It's about the journey because ya never get there!


----------



## gomango (Aug 30, 2006)

Cinelli 82220 said:


> Freschi were imported by Bikecology back in the bike boom.
> The most unique feature I remember was the use of pulleys for cable guides at the bottom bracket.
> There's some good pics on the Classic Rendezvous site.
> 
> Bikecology imported all kinds of neat bikes. They had a "touring" version of the Colnago Super I have never seen anywhere else. It looked like a regular Super but with fender and rack eyelets.


I would love to see this one.

I am currently "refreshing" this late 70s Super.


----------



## gomango (Aug 30, 2006)

majorbanjo said:


> I just bought this frame that I'm currently building.......


I'd like to have my Saronni Master back for another try.

I'm sure this build will be worth your effort.


----------



## takmanjapan (Mar 24, 2004)

*Who could resists this one?*

vintage Rossin Ghibli - wish it was mine....


----------



## brewster (Jun 15, 2004)

takmanjapan said:


> vintage Rossin Ghibli - wish it was mine....


Correct answer: No one. :thumbsup:


----------



## JaeP (Mar 12, 2002)

*Shameless*

I love my Colnago Export. One setup for vintage rides and for more modern ventures.


----------



## gomango (Aug 30, 2006)

JaeP said:


> I love my Colnago Export. One setup for vintage rides and for more modern ventures.


That's a mighty good looking Colnago you have there!

Bet she rides great.


----------



## etane (Sep 8, 2009)

Moonnerd said:


> Ride-Fly - I love your list. And as for that Bottecchia - you mean something like this?


That's my fave Bottecchia frame.


----------



## etane (Sep 8, 2009)

No mention of Olmo thus far... Built this one up last year. Columbus Genius frame with Campy Athena.


----------



## bikerjulio (Jan 19, 2010)

It's going to be warm & sunny tomorrow. I'm thinking to ride my yellow Coppi


----------



## lucaslmason (Jul 2, 2011)

*F.Moser?*

So I think this would be a good thread to have my question answered. Some friends have told me it's Italian and some have said it's French. I can't find much on the older models. I think this was a mid 90's model. It's an F.Moser Leader AX. I've got less than $400 in it so regardless of where it came from I'm going to ride it and enjoy it!


----------



## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

It's a Moser bike, of course it is Italian!


----------



## johnnyletrois (Jul 17, 2011)

I'll stick with my Tommasini Quatro Colore. :thumbsup:

View attachment 253550


----------



## Wolfman (Jun 15, 2005)

johnnyletrois said:


> I'll stick with my Tommasini Quatro Colore. :thumbsup:


Ahhh... I miss riding up to the falls... I grew up in Redmond and used to do that ride alot.


----------



## Jimbolina (Jun 19, 2009)

Speaking of Italian frames, especially Colnagos, does anyone know if the latest 'Master' framesets has proprietary lugs that are actually manufactured in Italy, or China.

It's not important and certainly doesn't affect quality, but something I was simply curious about.

I realize many lugsets are now made in China, with only a few like Henry James made in the West. There is probably a lone English lug house, or two, left casting, but I believe the lion's share are now cast in China and Taiwan.

Any insight?

Thanks,
Jim


----------



## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

I have a GIOS Compact Pro that's a perfect fit and my favorite ride.


----------



## box handler (Nov 8, 2010)

I've only seen two challengers to the Colnago Master X-Light: the De Rosa Neo Primato and this rare little gem from Wilier: ITALIAN CYCLING JOURNAL: Wilier Triestina "Gioiello Ramato"


----------



## otherself (Aug 25, 2006)

I always lusted for an early 90's Ciocc.


----------



## Patsanno (Mar 29, 2012)

Colnago or Cinelli


----------



## Mapei (Feb 3, 2004)

box handler said:


> I've only seen two challengers to the Colnago Master X-Light: the De Rosa Neo Primato and this rare little gem from Wilier: ITALIAN CYCLING JOURNAL: Wilier Triestina "Gioiello Ramato"


That Wilier really pushes my button.


----------



## epicus07 (Aug 3, 2009)

My Guerciotti


----------



## bconneraz (Jan 23, 2005)

I've got a Colnago Master and a De Rosa Neo Primato; both great bikes, but I prefer the ride of the DeRosa. 

If you havent checked out the 2012 De Rosa's yet, and you're a sucker for lugged steel, check out their new offering this year......beautiful.


----------



## J24 (Oct 8, 2003)

I have a Mondonico Diamond Extra that's a really nice and an Italian built Bill Lewis Nivachrome Quattro Assi that was probably made by a Tomassinni sub contractor that also a great riding bike


----------



## Quattro_Assi_07 (Jan 13, 2006)

*How about an early 1990s Zullo...*



J24 said:


> I have a Mondonico Diamond Extra that's a really nice and an Italian built Bill Lewis Nivachrome Quattro Assi that was probably made by a Tomassinni sub contractor that also a great riding bike


I too have a Tomassini built Quattro Assi frame. Maybe one day I'll get around to building it up. My favorite Italian builder growing up was Tiziano Zullo. I lusted after one of his specials but could only afford a Miyata PRO back then. This Zullo was manufactured in 1991 out of Columbus SLX tubing. I had the chrome added that you see and then the frame was powder coated by Spectrum Powder Works in Colorado Springs a bright safety orange with a pearlized clear coat. It is built up with a full Superbe Pro 8 speed group. The hubs are laced to a set of Stan's tubeless rims and I am running Hutchinson Intensive tubeless tires.










I plan to take some detailed photos tomorrow out in the sunlight before my first ride on it.


----------

