# SR11 rear derailleur adjustment issue



## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

I've tinkered with it but I haven't been able to figure out how to fix the problem so here goes... I'm running a 12-27 Chorus cassette. The SR11 rear derailleur seems dialed in except for when I'm in 53 x 17. I can hear a bit of chatter at the rear derailleur as though the cable tension is slightly off/the jockey wheels are slightly misaligned with the 17 tooth cog. The rear derailleur hanger is brand new (made by Wheels Mfg.) and I've checked the alignment with my Park DAG-2 and it's perfect. When I'm riding if I pull on the cable along the down tube to increase the tension the chatter stops until let go of the cable but if I set the tension higher at the adjuster barrel then everything else is off. Suggestion?


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## smokva (Jul 21, 2004)

rocco said:


> I've tinkered with it but I haven't been able to figure out how to fix the problem so here goes... I'm running a 12-27 Chorus cassette. The SR11 rear derailleur seems dialed in except for when I'm in 53 x 17. I can hear a bit of chatter at the rear derailleur as though the cable tension is slightly off/the jockey wheels are slightly misaligned with the 17 tooth cog. The rear derailleur hanger is brand new (made by Wheels Mfg.) and I've checked the alignment with my Park DAG-2 and it's perfect. When I'm riding if I pull on the cable along the down tube to increase the tension the chatter stops until let go of the cable but if I set the tension higher at the adjuster barrel then everything else is off. Suggestion?


I have similar issue with my 11 speed setup:12-27 Chorus cassette, Chorus chain and Record rear derailleur. When sprockets are in line with rollers shifting is OK, but the chatter sound is present. Playing with cable tension and H screw didn't reduce the chatter and only made shifting worse. As someone riding SRAM chains for years maybe I'm just not used to the inherent sound of Campagnolo chain. The fact is that everything works, but the unpleasant chatter is present no matter what I do.


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## skepticman (Dec 25, 2005)

Maybe it's this issue with the spacer?

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=171720


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## Maverick (Apr 29, 2004)

rocco said:


> I've tinkered with it but I haven't been able to figure out how to fix the problem so here goes... I'm running a 12-27 Chorus cassette. The SR11 rear derailleur seems dialed in except for when I'm in 53 x 17. I can hear a bit of chatter at the rear derailleur as though the cable tension is slightly off/the jockey wheels are slightly misaligned with the 17 tooth cog. The rear derailleur hanger is brand new (made by Wheels Mfg.) and I've checked the alignment with my Park DAG-2 and it's perfect. When I'm riding if I pull on the cable along the down tube to increase the tension the chatter stops until let go of the cable but if I set the tension higher at the adjuster barrel then everything else is off. Suggestion?


sorry to hear about your trouble rocco.
personally i've been having issues with the SR adjustment myself.
at the moment i won't say my shifts are perfect, still having some hesitation when up-shifting from the 4th cog to the 3rd cog (big to small) occasionally. im using the SR 11-25 cassette.

looking at your issue, it seems to be some related to cable friction.
have you check the cable housing on the R/D? is the length sufficient?
how about cable routing on the handlebar? -> i do find that there seems to be some minor improvement if the cable is routed at the rear of the bar instead of the front (try to avoid some sharp angle to reduce any chance of cable friction)

cheers


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## nrspeed (Jan 28, 2005)

I switch between a SR 11-25 and Chorus 11-23 all the time and have similar issues in the big ring. There is a gear or two that makes more noise than the others. I attributed it to different Campy wheels and a different cassette.

I recently switched to nokon housing and new 1.2mm campy cables and that helped.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

skepticman said:


> Maybe it's this issue with the spacer?
> 
> http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=171720



I've read that thread but I haven't checked my cassette yet mainly because even if the .2mm spacer were missing it doesn't sound like it would have anything to do with performance on the 17 tooth cog and because it doesn't seem like .2mm is enough to make the difference. Note that everything works fine in all of the other gear combination... there's only some chatter in 53x17.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Maverick said:


> sorry to hear about your trouble rocco.
> personally i've been having issues with the SR adjustment myself.
> at the moment i won't say my shifts are perfect, still having some hesitation when downshifting from the 4th cog to the 3rd cog occasionally. im using the SR 11-25 cassette.
> 
> ...


There's no hesitation when shifting in any gears and only some chatter with 53x17. The R/D cable is routed around the back of the handlebar, I never run cables at sharp angles plus my pluck test on the cable along the down tube confirms that there's no problem with friction.


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2009)

How do the chain and cassette compare in mileage? I've experienced something similar when using new 11speed cassettes and it seems to sort itself out once I've put a few rides into them. 

With the spacing of the 11 speed cassettes I think .2mm is probably more important than it might seem.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*info..*

Using a dry or thin lube with the 11 speed chain increases noise. I'm sticking with my homebrew that's got 80/90W gear lube in it.

I've noticed this type of problem with bikes dating back 20 years. If you're in a gear combo with a nearly straight chainline, it can be noisier than any combo with more of an angle to it. I'd check the cassette for a wobble or bent tooth on the 17 or either cog adjacent to it.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

kytyree said:


> How do the chain and cassette compare in mileage? I've experienced something similar when using new 11speed cassettes and it seems to sort itself out once I've put a few rides into them.
> 
> With the spacing of the 11 speed cassettes I think .2mm is probably more important than it might seem.



Chain and cassette are exactly equal in mileage. 

Does the .2mm spacer go where it would make a difference at the 17 tooth cog/middle of the cassette?


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*no...*



rocco said:


> Chain and cassette are exactly equal in mileage.
> 
> Does the .2mm spacer go where it would make a difference at the 17 tooth cog/middle of the cassette?


It goes behind the second cog, so it only affects the first and second cogs.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

C-40 said:


> It goes behind the second cog, so it only affects the first and second cogs.



That's about what I suspected. Thanks for confirming.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

C-40 said:


> Using a dry or thin lube with the 11 speed chain increases noise. I'm sticking with my homebrew that's got 80/90W gear lube in it.
> 
> I've noticed this type of problem with bikes dating back 20 years. If you're in a gear combo with a nearly straight chainline, it can be noisier than any combo with more of an angle to it. I'd check the cassette for a wobble or bent tooth on the 17 or either cog adjacent to it.



The lube I'm using now is Finish Line ceramic wet lube... it's pretty thin.

The the chatter I'm having now I'm pretty sure I could have trimmed out 20 years ago. 53x17 is about as straight as it gets. I'm surprised by your observation that a straight chainline can be noisier than any other combo with more angle. I'm curious about why that would be. I will check the cassette for wobble or a bent tooth, thanks.


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## skepticman (Dec 25, 2005)

C-40 said:


> It goes behind the second cog, so it only affects the first and second cogs.


This bulletin shows where the new spacer goes.

http://glorycycles.blogspot.com/2009/06/campagnolo-11-speed-performance.html


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

skepticman said:


> This bulletin shows where the new spacer goes.
> 
> http://glorycycles.blogspot.com/2009/06/campagnolo-11-speed-performance.html



That looks like it might be the solution... although I'm trying to imagine why that would solve the problem if I can make the chatter go away by increasing the cable tension which also screws up the down shift performance toward the 15, 14, 13 and 12 tooth sprockets... I would think less space between the 16 and 17 tooth cogs would be the solution not more. Maybe the answer will dawn on me by the morning... no pun intended. 

Thanks.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Update: I checked my cassette this morning and confirmed that I have the scalloped 2.3mm spacer between the 16 and 17 tooth sprockets which isn't too surprising since I ordered the cassette from Ribble in the UK in April... I suspect new components were moving through supply chain from the Campy factory to distributors/wholesalers to dealers to customers very rapidly in the spring.

Anyway... perhaps a heavier weight lube is in order for the chain.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

I am curious to evaluate this 2.3mm spacer ... my 11sp shifting "seems" OK ... but could it be better?

I called Glory Cycles today, they told me the CS-712 spacers are not yet available as a separate item.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*reason...*



rocco said:


> The lube I'm using now is Finish Line ceramic wet lube... it's pretty thin.
> 
> The the chatter I'm having now I'm pretty sure I could have trimmed out 20 years ago. 53x17 is about as straight as it gets. I'm surprised by your observation that a straight chainline can be noisier than any other combo with more angle. I'm curious about why that would be. I will check the cassette for wobble or a bent tooth, thanks.


The chain is noisier because it's free to move from side to side with no side load. Side loading actually quiets a chain, up to a certain point. When you approach one of the extreme angles, you get noise between the cog and chain, which is a different situation.


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## otoman (Mar 8, 2004)

As a friend/teammate and I have discussed, both of us have been a little frustrated by the frequent adjustment to the Campy 11 speed RD cable tension that was seemed to be needed. We both had chalked it up to the closer spacing of the cogs.
I had a eureka moment last night as I was fussing with my Campy 11 cassettes. It hit me that the adjustment of the RD and the entire concept of shifting is different between Campy and Shimano. Duh, right? 

Well first of all, my first 11-25 Record cassette on my Zipps is an older one without the recently released 2.3 mm spacer that goes lateral to the 2nd spider of 3 cogs. All the spacers are 2.2mm.
My newer 11-25 Chorus cassette on my PT wheel has the 2.3 mm spacer, but if anything, shifting was worse on my PT wheel based on how I was used to adjusting cable tension.

With Ultegra 9 sp, once a season I had to adjust the cable tension. I'd put it so it was tight, but just loose enough that the chain wasn't rattling against the next larger cog. Shifting was great. The cable would gradually loosen through the course of the season, but the cog spacing was wide enough that it didn't affect shifting performance.

With DA 7800, I had to loosen it a couple quarter turns from where I'd put the Ultegra cable tension. In other words, the tension had to be more "in the middle". But, I didn't have to adjust it very much at all - maybe a few times a year. Again, shifting was flawless.

With my new Campy Record 11, I have been frustrated by what seems to be every other ride adjustments that were needed and the lack of it truly being spot on. Well, I thought the spacer was the trick, but it turns out, I already have the correct 2.3mm spacer on my daily PT wheel training cassette. I spent a bit of time fiddling with the cable tension, then it dawned on me last night. The cable has to be loose enough to allow quick upshifts (to smaller cogs). Period, end. You can't exclusively (as with Ultegra 9) or primarily (as with 7800) adjust the cable tension based on the downshift tension. It seems you have to do the opposite with Campy 11: you have to make sure your cable tension is *just* loose enough that your upshifts are clean. But what does that do to the downshifting? Well if you are using your shifters like Shimano shifters (i.e. quick click without ensuring that the chain is engaged on the next cog) it will seem crappy. BUT, Campy has never been the "Light Action" company. Therefore, you have to downshift a bit differently. You have to push the downshift lever past the click (as with any other companies' shifters), but you have to allow the chain to engage the larger cog before releasing the lever. You either give it that split second longer to engage before releasing or you push just slightly farther past the click then you would with Shimano. Think of it more as a mechanical lever doing the downshifting rather than how Shimano has made the lever feel like a button that you just tap. 

I did a ride this morning with my Campy 11 adjusted as above and with me downshifting as described above. FINALLY, flawless shifting. I just had to adjust my mind as much as the cable tension.

YRMV, just my .02 coming from a long-term Shimano user/home mechanic who recently switched over to the new Campy 11.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

otoman said:


> ... As a friend/teammate and I have discussed, both of us have been a little frustrated by the frequent adjustment to the Campy 11 speed RD cable tension that was seemed to be needed. We both had chalked it up to the closer spacing of the cogs. ...
> ... Therefore, you have to downshift [_larger cog_] a bit differently. You have to push the downshift lever past the click (as with any other companies' shifters), but you have to allow the chain to engage the larger cog before releasing the lever. You either give it that split second longer to engage before releasing or you push just slightly farther past the click then you would with Shimano. ... .


In the first 150-200 miles, I did need a lot of RD adjusting, after every ride. It did concern me.

But my subsequent c.800 miles, have required no RD adjustment. Chalk it up to normal cable stretch. Since I assembled my bike, it was completely 'virgin' to start, hence what seemed to me a long break-in time. 

I'm still going to try the optional 2.30mm spacer on my 12-27 cassette, just to see if it makes any difference.

Interesting observation on the shift to larger cogs ... I haven't been paying much attention, but will make a conscious effort to try your method ... maybe I've been doing it without realizing?? After a while, shifting becomes 'automatic', like walking.


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## irideti (Aug 13, 2002)

FYI, my LBS orderd me the CS-712 spacer from Campagnolo Service Center in Carlsbad, California last Tuesday and it arrived the very next day. (I'm in California too) I will install the spacer when taking apart my cassette for cleaning next time.


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## Lionel (Nov 22, 2004)

*More info*

My LBS still has not received anything. Of course these things take a lot more time here in France than in the US... The concept of customer service is quite different...

Anyway, while at the LBS, the owner told me that Campy actually made changes to the shifters. The old ones have white plastic cable guides, the new ones black (mine are white). Apparently some shifters are just plain not working, in particular in the middle cogs of the cassette. He showed me a bunch of completely new internals, basically the complete inside of the shifter including the shift levers.... They are exchanging under warranty apparently.

Another change in newer versions is that the click is much more pronounced (like the old record 10). he had a new SR shifter in the box and clearly the clik is more pronounced and "harder". For that change he mentioned that the shifter has to be sent back to campy....

It looks like I may have new shifters in my future. I would love a more positive click.


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## tom_h (May 6, 2008)

Lionel,
?
My Chorus-11 shifters have white cable guides. The _up_ and _down_ shift clicks are well-defined and positive. If the thumb lever was any more "positive", it would begin to verge on 'too hard to shift'.


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## Lionel (Nov 22, 2004)

*shifting*



tom_h said:


> Lionel,
> ?
> My Chorus-11 shifters have white cable guides. The _up_ and _down_ shift clicks are well-defined and positive. If the thumb lever was any more "positive", it would begin to verge on 'too hard to shift'.


Yeah, the thumb shifter on my SR 11 is close to my Record 10. The lever shifter is way softer. Sometimes you get a lot of BS and partial info at the LBS. Before I do anything I am trying to confirm what is happening with the shifters.


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## campagnoloneutron (Sep 15, 2005)

*similar issues...*

I have had some similar shifting issues with my new Campag SR set up. I run 53-39 with 11-23 cassette. I do have the new 2.3 spacer in that cassette that was introduced to slightly improve shifting characteristics. 

I kept constantly adjusting it like the others here but actually it was not the adjusting that was needed, that was probably okay. It was another issue that made it seem like an adjustment was needed.

What I have experienced has everything to do with cable friction and not the spacers. The setup on the cables is optimum, I have done many of these campag installations. The shifting is perfect on all gears IF the cable releases properly on each shift to a smaller cog. Sometimes it does and sometimes it does not. I am convinced there is slight binding in the area of the lever. All the cables are the new campagnolo ultra low friction cables intended for the 11 speed set up. 

The shifts up the cassette to larger sprockets are of course no problem as the lever is pulling the cable and correspondingly moves the derailleur exactly into position. I would say the shifts are excellent. On the way back down from bigger cogs to smaller is where the problem occurs and its usually a problem in the middle of the cassette. The cable binds and the shift is occasionally slow or imprecise and rattles. I know it binds as when I tug the cable just a little where it runs along the down tube it corrects instantly. So when i am on bumpy roads it helps release the cable, if I am on smooth roads it takes longer...

Here is what I think is the problem: the unnecessarily way too small hole in the lever area where the gear cable passes into the cable casing seat is causing the gear cable to bind ever so slightly. It will probably wear in after a period of time. The cable will wear the hole slightly over time and finally result in perfect shifting. Some people have already experienced that. Solution; you could pre-wear in the hole manually with an old cable using it to ream the hole out prior to assembly, hopefully avoiding the irritating issues that should not occur on this product. Also a good lubricant can help here. I use teflon oil and ceramic grease by FinishLine.

PS One last thing to check; make sure that your cassette lockring is snugged up properly on the sprockets. semi loose sprockets will damage your hub and contribute to imprecise shifting, especially on 11 speed where all the inter-cog dimensions need to be exact for correct functionality.

Hope this helps.


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## Lionel (Nov 22, 2004)

What you are describing seems somewhat similar to what my LBS was describing. This is supposed to have been modified in later versions of the internal of the shifter....



campagnoloneutron said:


> I have had some similar shifting issues with my new Campag SR set up. I run 53-39 with 11-23 cassette. I do have the new 2.3 spacer in that cassette that was introduced to slightly improve shifting characteristics.
> 
> I kept constantly adjusting it like the others here but actually it was not the adjusting that was needed, that was probably okay. It was another issue that made it seem like an adjustment was needed.
> 
> ...


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## Maverick (Apr 29, 2004)

@campagnoloneutron, otoman, 

thanks the sharing, great info for all campagnolo 11s users.

reading from all the comments received, it looks like majority of us are having similar adjustment issues with the cable binding/tension on the SR11 groupo. 
hmm.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

For what it's worth, and just to add another data point: I got one of the first Campy SR11 groups in October last year. In contrast to some others reporting here, after the cable was fully stretched (maybe 100-200miles), I have never had to re-adjust my rear derailleur, and shifting has been nothing short of perfect: up, down, multiple up or down, have always been perfectly crisp and quick. I did have a bit of chatter, only, and exclusively, on my 5th cog, but that seems to have pretty much gone away (after roughly 500 miles or so it was gone, I think).

HOWEVER, I just recently got myself a new PT wheel, which I put a new 12-27 cassette on, the one that does NOT have the 2.3mm spacer. Now this is again quite noisy, mostly again on the 5th cog, interestingly enough. Also, the cassette is almost perfectly quiet when I'm in the small ring (39), but makes noise in the 53. Note that I get that noise when the derailleur is dialed in for perfect shifting; if I adjust it to get rid of the noise, shifting is unacceptable. Somebody in this thread was commenting that you are likely to hear more chatter on the cog that has the perfect chainline, which is just the 5th. Listening to the noise I can believe his explanation, because it does sound like the chain is trying to settle in on one side or the other, with slightly changing sound as it moves from side to side.

Finally, there's a Thursday, August 6, 2009 post in the GloryCycles blog, here, which says that switching to a new chain, after having worn in the cassette for a few hundred miles may give you a completely quiet drivetrain. I'm not going to chuck out my perfectly good chain mid-season, but I'll probably put a new chain on this winter, and see if that helps. Meanwhile, I'll also order the 2.3mm spacer for my new cassette, and see what that does.


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## Richieg (Sep 16, 2006)

Lionel said:


> My LBS still has not received anything. Of course these things take a lot more time here in France than in the US... The concept of customer service is quite different...
> 
> Anyway, while at the LBS, the owner told me that Campy actually made changes to the shifters. The old ones have white plastic cable guides, the new ones black (mine are white). Apparently some shifters are just plain not working, in particular in the middle cogs of the cassette. He showed me a bunch of completely new internals, basically the complete inside of the shifter including the shift levers.... They are exchanging under warranty apparently.
> 
> ...


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## SwiftSolo (Jun 7, 2008)

rocco said:


> I've tinkered with it but I haven't been able to figure out how to fix the problem so here goes... I'm running a 12-27 Chorus cassette. The SR11 rear derailleur seems dialed in except for when I'm in 53 x 17. I can hear a bit of chatter at the rear derailleur as though the cable tension is slightly off/the jockey wheels are slightly misaligned with the 17 tooth cog. The rear derailleur hanger is brand new (made by Wheels Mfg.) and I've checked the alignment with my Park DAG-2 and it's perfect. When I'm riding if I pull on the cable along the down tube to increase the tension the chatter stops until let go of the cable but if I set the tension higher at the adjuster barrel then everything else is off. Suggestion?


Rocco,
I was having the same trouble exactly. When I went to the bastardized setup (11/12/13/14/15/17/19/21/23/25/27) it went away for some strange reason. I have no idea why it exists or why it went away.

I like the setup but would not reccomend it unless you are primarily climbing and decending. I miss the 16 a little on the flats (I run compact cranks).


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## em3 (Dec 25, 2005)

Richieg, just to be clear, is your LBS saying that Campy is gong to be providing warranty replacements for all 11-speed ergos in addition to the spacer fix? Where are you located and I am wondering where your LBS is getting their info from? I just called Campagnolo in CA and they seem to be completely unaware of any of info on this issue (not surprising because over the last few years I have found Campagolo America knowledge base deteriorating with some of their new folks).

Any info you can provide would be appreciated.EM3


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## Richieg (Sep 16, 2006)

em3 said:


> Richieg, just to be clear, is your LBS saying that Campy is gong to be providing warranty replacements for all 11-speed ergos in addition to the spacer fix? Where are you located and I am wondering where your LBS is getting their info from? I just called Campagnolo in CA and they seem to be completely unaware of any of info on this issue (not surprising because over the last few years I have found Campagolo America knowledge base deteriorating with some of their new folks).
> 
> Any info you can provide would be appreciated.EM3


 The post your talking about wasn't mine. I was responding to the post in question, but for some reason, it didn't show up. I did talk to the Campy dealer I bought the Super Record from and was told there is no recall on any of the 11 speed shifters or cassettes. He told me some of the early shifters (Oct.-Nov. 08) were bad but the newer ones are ok. I bought mine in April, so I'm shoping there will not be a problem. I was told by the owner of Glory Cycles in Orlando, the newer 11 speed cassettes are ok, with the proper shims, etc. The older ones like the shifters had problems, but they should be ok now. Hope this helps.


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## Lionel (Nov 22, 2004)

*Warranty*



em3 said:


> Richieg, just to be clear, is your LBS saying that Campy is gong to be providing warranty replacements for all 11-speed ergos in addition to the spacer fix? Where are you located and I am wondering where your LBS is getting their info from? I just called Campagnolo in CA and they seem to be completely unaware of any of info on this issue (not surprising because over the last few years I have found Campagolo America knowledge base deteriorating with some of their new folks).
> 
> Any info you can provide would be appreciated.EM3


I am in France. Campy is supposed to change the internal of the levers. Campy France was closed though for the first 2 weeks of August. We will see in a couple of weeks.


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## Richieg (Sep 16, 2006)

Lionel said:


> I am in France. Campy is supposed to change the internal of the levers. Campy France was closed though for the first 2 weeks of August. We will see in a couple of weeks.


 In France the Campy dealers are saying there is a problem with the shifters? Just the early versions? I'm starting to wonder if I should have gone with the new Dura Ace 7900. I did ride it and it's very nice and the hoods are very confortable.....plus it was about $400 less..


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Richieg said:


> In France the Campy dealers are saying there is a problem with the shifters? Just the early versions?


Nonsense. I happen to ride one of the first Super Record groups that were available in the States, and it's perfect. There is no recall on the shifters. It _may _be that _a few _of the shifters did have problems, but that can happen with any product. All I know is that mine don't have any issues, and there's reports from many people that are perfectly happy with theirs, too.


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## Lionel (Nov 22, 2004)

*not a recall*



Richieg said:


> In France the Campy dealers are saying there is a problem with the shifters? Just the early versions? I'm starting to wonder if I should have gone with the new Dura Ace 7900. I did ride it and it's very nice and the hoods are very confortable.....plus it was about $400 less..


My understanding is that this is not a recall. Some of the shifters have some problems and campy is exchanging the internals under warranty.


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## Tinea Pedis (Aug 14, 2009)

I too was having chatter and some skipping (when downshifting) on my just installed (and new) SR.

So from what I can gather from all this is that the skipping is likely due to the cables bedding in (possibly within the shifter itself) in addition to the cassette needing to be worn in...
Which a new chain + kms will fix...


This could be annoying every time I go to a new cassette...


And here I was thinking that shelling out mega bucks for the top Campag would = a nice, silent ride like Record 10.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Tinea Pedis said:


> I too was having chatter and some skipping (when downshifting) on my just installed (and new) SR.


Chatter, a little, maybe, but see below. There should be no skipping, ever. My shifting has always been perfect (well, once dialed in, of course). My reading is that the leading cause of shifting problems, other than bad adjustment or bent derailleur hangers, is cable installation. I don't think the SR is particularly sensitive even in that respect, but if you have some nasty kinks in your cable(s), and correspondingly increased friction, you may see issues.



Tinea Pedis said:


> And here I was thinking that shelling out mega bucks for the top Campag would = a nice, silent ride like Record 10.


I just switched my chain lubricant, and gave Chain-L No. 5 a try. What can I say: That stuff really works. No chatter, and my drivetrain is almost completely silent now. By far the biggest noise maker is my PowerTap hub now, the freewheel, that is. So I keep pedalling...  YMMV, but it may be worth a try; it's just a few bucks. I think they send you samples for $4, including shipping.


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## Tinea Pedis (Aug 14, 2009)

I'm in Oz....so not too sure to what you're referring to there...

Sorry.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Tinea Pedis said:


> I'm in Oz....so not too sure to what you're referring to there...


Chain-L


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## Tinea Pedis (Aug 14, 2009)

Thanks....

Still no where I can purchase it - but at least I'm clearer on what you're referring to.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Pirx said:


> I just switched my chain lubricant, and gave Chain-L No. 5 a try. What can I say: That stuff really works. No chatter, and my drivetrain is almost completely silent now. By far the biggest noise maker is my PowerTap hub now, the freewheel, that is. So I keep pedalling...  YMMV, but it may be worth a try; it's just a few bucks. I think they send you samples for $4, including shipping.



OK... this is just joke, right?


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

rocco said:


> OK... this is just joke, right?


No, it's not.


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## Tinea Pedis (Aug 14, 2009)

Ok, so got the bike back from the lbs and it is quieter...

However still seems to have noise from from the rear cass and a clicking that almost sounds like rubbing on the fd - but I know that it's not...

Thinking maybe it could be from the quick link not being done properly??

It's starting to get on my goat a little - as I, quite rightly I feel, think that SR should be quiet. Silent would be excellent, but I'd accept quiet. Yet I can't even claim to have that.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

C-40 said:


> The chain is noisier because it's free to move from side to side with no side load. Side loading actually quiets a chain, up to a certain point. When you approach one of the extreme angles, you get noise between the cog and chain, which is a different situation.


I applied new experimental home brew lube that is more viscous the Finish Line product I've been using. Hopefully that will helps quiet things down a bit.


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Tinea Pedis said:


> Thinking maybe it could be from the quick link not being done properly??


Quick link? There is no quick link for the Campy 11-speed chain. Well, there is an aftermarket product by Lickton's bike store in Chicago, but that just came out, and there's almost no experience with this so far. On the other hand, if your store installed any other kind of quick link, then you should expect issues, because it won't really be compatible with Campy 11-speed.


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## Tinea Pedis (Aug 14, 2009)

Well where ever the chain is joined is what I was meaning to say...

As it seems this noise is getting consistant with a full rotation of the chain.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*????*



Tinea Pedis said:


> Well where ever the chain is joined is what I was meaning to say...
> 
> As it seems this noise is getting consistant with a full rotation of the chain.


Look at the chain. Surely you can see if there is a master link installed instead of the proper Campy joining pin. There are some master links that will work, but not many. The SRAM 10 poweloc should work, the Wipperman 10S1 will work, but it's no longer made and the KMC link for the Campy UN chain seems to work.

Don't expect SR to work better than the much cheaper Chorus. Those Ti cogs will last about half as long and there is nothing in the groupo that will make it quieter, just lighter. You pay a lot to save a few ounces. 

The SR CULT bearings in the BB are about the only thing in the whole group that's notable.


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## Richieg (Sep 16, 2006)

C-40 said:


> Look at the chain. Surely you can see if there is a master link installed instead of the proper Campy joining pin. There are some master links that will work, but not many. The SRAM 10 poweloc should work, the Wipperman 10S1 will work, but it's not longer made and the KMC link for the Campy UN chain seems to work.
> 
> Don't expect SR to work better than the much cheaper Chorus. Those Ti cogs will last about half as long and there is nothing in the groupo that will make it quieter, just lighter. You pay a lot to save a few ounces.
> 
> The SR CULT bearings in the BB are about the only thing in the whole group that's notable.


 The Chorus is a much better value IMO. It's about 700-800 less than SR. I been on two bikes with SR and one with Chorus...I couldn't tell the difference in either one. Also, they didn't really seem very loud I have the SR and hope to stay on the big ring most the time (keep the chain off the Ti cogs!)


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## Tinea Pedis (Aug 14, 2009)

C-40 said:


> Look at the chain. Surely you can see if there is a master link installed instead of the proper Campy joining pin. There are some master links that will work, but not many. The SRAM 10 poweloc should work, the Wipperman 10S1 will work, but it's not longer made and the KMC link for the Campy UN chain seems to work.
> 
> Don't expect SR to work better than the much cheaper Chorus. Those Ti cogs will last about half as long and there is nothing in the groupo that will make it quieter, just lighter. You pay a lot to save a few ounces.
> 
> The SR CULT bearings in the BB are about the only thing in the whole group that's notable.


I actually only bought it because of the weight and the bling factor. Didn't expect it to be any more silent than Chorus (or for that matter for Chorus to be 'louder') and actually already have a Chorus group at home to go on my 'dale once I move another bike along.

No matter what the group though, I do expect it to be more quiet than it presently is.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

rocco said:


> I applied new experimental home brew lube that is more viscous the Finish Line product I've been using. Hopefully that will helps quiet things down a bit.



Update: I've tested my new home brew formula (3 parts 80W-90 gear oil to 1 part mineral spirits applied to a cleaned hot chain and wiped clean thoroughly after application and after each ride) this week in peace and quiet on the roads of Mendocino County, CA. Shifting performance is very good and pretty much all I hear now is the sound of my tires on the road and the wind blowing past my ears. The drive train is staying nice and clean too.


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## Richieg (Sep 16, 2006)

rocco said:


> Update: I've tested my new home brew formula (3 parts 80W-90 gear oil to 1 part mineral spirits applied to a cleaned hot chain and wiped clean thoroughly after application and after each ride) this week in peace and quiet on the roads of Mendocino County, CA. Shifting performance is very good and pretty much all I hear now is the sound of my tires on the road and the wind blowing past my ears. The drive train is staying nice and clean too.


 Are you saying you wipe the chain after you put the oil on? Doesn't this remove all the oil? Thanks


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## Pirx (Aug 9, 2009)

Richieg said:


> Are you saying you wipe the chain after you put the oil on? Doesn't this remove all the oil? Thanks


No, you always wipe off the chain after lubing. The lubricant is supposed to be _inside_ the chain (in the bearings formed by rollers and pins), _not _on the outside. All the stuff on the outside does is attract dirt, and this way actually reduce your chain and sprocket life.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Pirx said:


> No, you always wipe off the chain after lubing. The lubricant is supposed to be _inside_ the chain (in the bearings formed by rollers and pins), _not _on the outside. All the stuff on the outside does is attract dirt, and this way actually reduce your chain and sprocket life.


Precisely... To be even more specific, I heat my chain with a heat/paint stripper gun until it's almost hot to the touch but not hot enough to risk melting the plastic jockey wheels. This aids the capillary flow of lubricant into the internal surfaces. I wait for at least ten minutes... sometimes until the next day before I wipe the excess lubricant off of the outside. I use a clean rag dampened (not saturated to the point of dripping) with mineral spirits to help wipe off process.


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## Richieg (Sep 16, 2006)

rocco said:


> Precisely... To be even more specific, I heat my chain with a heat/paint stripper gun until it's almost hot to the touch but not hot enough to risk melting the plastic jockey wheels. This aids the capillary flow of lubricant into the internal surfaces. I wait for at least ten minutes... sometimes until the next day before I wipe the excess lubricant off of the outside. I use a clean rag dampened (not saturated to the point of dripping) with mineral spirits to help wipe off process.


 Ok, I see what your saying. Thanks


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## otoman (Mar 8, 2004)

Question for those of you who have dealt with both 11s and 10s Campy shifters: is the angle of the slot from which the shifter housing comes out of the shifter any different between the two systems? My LBS says it is (they are Campy proficient). I ask b/c as I was re-wrapping my bar tape, I noticed that the shifter housing come off the shifter body angled a little too far "inward", creating the need to put an unnatural bend on the housing to get it back to the bar. Seems a bit of a design flaw creating excess friciton in the shifter cable/housing. Thanks!


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## J24 (Oct 8, 2003)

rocco said:


> .............. a cleaned hot chain and.............


Does heating the chain like that sweat out the grease between the rollers and the pins?


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*info...*



J24 said:


> Does heating the chain like that sweat out the grease between the rollers and the pins?


Heating a chain is a total waste of time. If the home brew is diluted 3/1 with mineral spirits it doesn't need any help running in between the roller, pin and bushing.

I still prefer to degrease a brand new chain, but the alternative is the apply homebrew after every ride or so and wipe after every ride. Eventually the grease will be displaced.

As for the chain staying clean with gear lube home brew, you have to be kidding. I've been using gear lube hombrew for the last two years and it is NOT a clean lube. Wiping aftere every ride is a must. That really true of any wet lube. They ooze out of the chain over just a few rides and need replenished. I never ride over three times of 150 miles without relubing. Most often I only go 100 miles or two rides.


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## J24 (Oct 8, 2003)

C-40 what viscousity oil are you using?
Disregrad saw earlier post


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

J24 said:


> Does heating the chain like that sweat out the grease between the rollers and the pins?


I think to do that one would have to heat the chain to a much hotter temperature than I'm talking about.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

C-40 said:


> Heating a chain is a total waste of time. If the home brew is diluted 3/1 with mineral spirits it doesn't need any help running in between the roller, pin and bushing.
> 
> I still prefer to degrease a brand new chain, but the alternative is the apply homebrew after every ride or so and wipe after every ride. Eventually the grease will be displaced.
> 
> As for the chain staying clean with gear lube home brew, you have to be kidding. I've been using gear lube hombrew for the last two years and it is NOT a clean lube. Wiping aftere every ride is a must. That really true of any wet lube. They ooze out of the chain over just a few rides and need replenished. I never ride over three times of 150 miles without relubing. Most often I only go 100 miles or two rides.


In just the last few weeks I've began to use a home brew of 3 parts 80W-90 gear oil to 1 part mineral spirits and tried warming the chain before the first application after pre-cleaning the chain. I've found that with a bit of care I can mainly get the lube where I want it (inside). The performance has been very smooth and quiet. I'm finding that reapplication after 6 to 7 rides/> 250 to 300 miles is plenty... no oozing. I wipe the chain down after 3 or 4 rides and the chain has remained very clean.

Anyway it is what it is... Results may vary... I'm happy and have next to zero interest in trying to prove/convince others or argue that what I'm saying is true.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*???*



rocco said:


> Anyway it is what it is... Results may vary... I'm happy and have next to zero interest in trying to prove/convince others or argue that what I'm saying is true.


As a mechanical engineer I'm smart enough to have taken a chain apart and measured the clearances. They are quite large, so even straight oil will penetrate where it's needed. Heating a chain is of no value and I'd never try to convince someone it was.

I've tried 80/90W gear lube straight, diluted as little a 1/1 and as much as 6/1. They all start oozing out on the first ride. The first ride is when most of the oil oozes out. I wipe that off, and the chain is a little cleaner on the second ride, but I still wipe after every ride.

I would also not try to convince anyone that any homebrew mix is the least bit clean. It does good job of preventing chain wear, but it is not clean and requires a lot of wiping. I've been using home brews for about 10 years.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

C-40 said:


> As a mechanical engineer I'm smart enough to have taken a chain apart and measured the clearances. They are quite large, so even straight oil will penetrate where it's needed. Heating a chain is of no value and I'd never try to convince someone it was.
> 
> I've tried 80/90W gear lube straight, diluted as little a 1/1 and as much as 6/1. They all start oozing out on the first ride. The first ride is when most of the oil oozes out. I wipe that off, and the chain is a little cleaner on the second ride, but I still wipe after every ride.
> 
> I would also not try to convince anyone that any homebrew mix is the least bit clean. It does good job of preventing chain wear, but it is not clean and requires a lot of wiping. I've been using home brews for about 10 years.



I tried warming the chain a couple of times with my new thick home brew applications and I liked the result I got... that's all I'm saying... I have no evidence to prove that it made a difference and I take your word that it had nothing to do with results so I'll go back to applying the brew without heat and see what happens.

I'm not sure I'm understanding your description of 1/1 being diluted a little and 6/1 as diluted a lot unless you mean 6 parts mineral spirits to 1 part gear lube. I'm diluting 3 parts gear lube with 1 part mineral spirits... in other words diluted very little. I have no idea how your application technique compares to mine but I haven't had the amount of oozing and clean up you seem to be describing. I've found that with way I apply lube I have no more issues with mess with my home brew than I've ever had with any of the commercial lubes that I've tried over the year the last 25 years. After I've used my home brew for 10 years I could report back again if you insist but I'm pretty sure that will be unnecessary.  

BTW, With my home brew I still hear some tiny bit of chatter in 53x17 but it's much, much less than with the lube I was using before.


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## David Loving (Jun 13, 2008)

Let me hop in and say I have used 5w30 and 30 weight and 5w30 mobil one synthetic and they all produce excellent results mixes 3-1 with mineral spirits. The chain loves 'em all. Best lube I ever used. Chain lube is like arguing religion!


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*thinning...*

Most home brews are very thin with 3-4 parts solvent and 1 part lube, not the other way around. Even a 1/1 mix would be considered very thick. 

The idea with the heavily thinned lube is that very little oil in needed to do the job. The thinned lube can be applied heavily to wash out dirt and not produce a heavy build-up. The solvent eventually evaporates leaving a small amount of oil. Once mixed with oil, mineral spirits does not evaporate very quickly, however. I always lube after a ride to leave many hours of drying time. If a bike is left unused for several days, the chain will be a lot drier than if it's lubed at the end of a ride and then used the next day.

The idea started over 10 years ago with ProLink. It's a very thin lube that's really nothing but oil and solvent.

To speed the evaporation rate, I use naptha or camp stove fuel as the thinner.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

C-40 said:


> Most home brews are very thin with 3-4 parts solvent and 1 part lube, not the other way around. Even a 1/1 mix would be considered very thick.
> 
> The idea with the heavily thinned lube is that very little oil in needed to do the job. The thinned lube can be applied heavily to wash out dirt and not produce a heavy build-up. The solvent eventually evaporates leaving a small amount of oil. Once mixed with oil, mineral spirits does not evaporate very quickly, however. I always lube after a ride to leave many hours of drying time. If a bike is left unused for several days, the chain will be a lot drier than if it's lubed at the end of a ride and then used the next day.
> 
> ...



It sounds like if I were to keep using this thick lube I've been trying then I shouldn't need to reapply nearly as often... just keep wiping off the chain every few days (which hasn't been all that dirty when I do) per usual and once a month flush the chain with solvent, let it dry out and reapply my lube. 

I live in SoCal so I never ride in the rain other than in the very rare instances when I'm caught out in the beginning of a winter storm. Perhaps I'm mistaken but it seems like I shouldn't develop a problematic level of heavy build-up if I follow the plan I've described. What's the drawback of using such a thick lube?


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*my experience...*

Whenever I used a heavy lube, it ozzes out and spreads a lot of it onto the cogs, which then attracts dirt and creates the need for relatively frequent cog cleaning. I clean my cogs with a 1 inch paint brush dipped in mineral spirits. I hold the brush against the cogs and turn the craks backward to give them a cleaning. You will get some drippage that needs to be contained. I may blot with a paper shop towel and leave it under the cassette to keep the dripping off the wheel.

While you won't have to reapply a heavy lube as often, it takes so little time while I'm wiping the chain anyway, I prefer a heavily thinned lube applied often.

I never ride in the rain either, but some of the roads I ride can be relatively dusty, so I find frequent wiping a must. I use a paper shop towel and grasp the lower section of chain with it, while I spin the cranks backwards a few times. Takes all of 30 seconds. relubing probably takes another 2 minutes.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

C-40 said:


> Whenever I used a heavy lube, it ozzes out and spreads a lot of it onto the cogs, which then attracts dirt and creates the need for relatively frequent cog cleaning. I clean my cogs with a 1 inch paint brush dipped in mineral spirits. I hold the brush against the cogs and turn the craks backward to give them a cleaning. You will get some drippage that needs to be contained. I may blot with a paper shop towel and leave it under the cassette to keep the dripping off the wheel.
> 
> While you won't have to reapply a heavy lube as often, it takes so little time while I'm wiping the chain anyway, I prefer a heavily thinned lube applied often.
> 
> I never ride in the rain either, but some of the roads I ride can be relatively dusty, so I find frequent wiping a must. I use a paper shop towel and grasp the lower section of chain with it, while I spin the cranks backwards a few times. Takes all of 30 seconds. relubing probably takes another 2 minutes.


I keep my bike very clean overall and I essentially do all of the same things as you as far cleaning my chain and cassette when they get too dirty. Thus far I've had remarkably little oozing out onto the cogs with this heavy home brew and have had to do a very minimal amount of work to keep my drive train clean. I've actually have had significantly more of a oozing mess to manage when I used some of thinner/wetter commercial lubes in the past.


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## otoman (Mar 8, 2004)

bump bump


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*wrong...*

The new shifters do not use a ferrule at the ergo body and there is NO preinstalled ferrule on the 11 new ultra low friction cables. If you got cables with a preinstalled ferrule, the they are not the proper cables. The instructions you read are for the old 10 speed cable and pre-2009 shifters. Campy goofed and did not update their instuctions.

The holes in the ergo body are absolutely NOT big enough for a ferrule. I have no idea how you would every get one into the ergo body, sinceit is MUCH larger than the hole in the ergo body.

The front routing of the cable is an option, but with some bars it will create a bend that is too tight and create excess friction.

There is also no special "tapered" ferrule to use at the RD. The cable set come with only four identical ferrules, plus one with a smaller diameter extended end, This off ferrule is only used on some older steel frames with a different cable stop.

I've got three bike using the new ultrashift levers. I've got Campy ultra low friction cables on two but on the thrid I have Shimano 4mm housing and it works fine. It does NOT require a ferrule at the ergo body.


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## otoman (Mar 8, 2004)

OK, well thanks for educating me, Your Richardness. Apparently, I was given a 10sp cable/housing set by the shop, yet another f*** up. I was ignorant, am not now. Seems to be working beautfully. The rear housing ferrule that would have gone into the 10sp shifter body indeed does not slip right in, I just positioned it so the cable is going straight in. I did have to butt it up against the opening, a process you should be very familiar with, being one yourself.

Sigh, as you have repeated over and over in you condescending tone, I shall repeat what has been said to you by other forum members over and over and over, C-40. Don't be such a Richard. Lighten up. Peace. Don't worry, be happy. etc, etc. But again, thanks for the knowledge, however it is delivered.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*research...*

I never hurts to do a little research before posting. That's how so much misinformation gets spread around. It's a wonder that your bike shifts well at all, with the housing installed improperly at both ends and having the old 10 speed housing.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

I don't think I've ever started a thread that went on for almost 3 months before. I wonder what the all time RBR super record... uhm... I mean, record is. 

P.S. My home brew is still working out very well for me.


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## wankski (Jul 24, 2005)

that's weird. my chorus11 is pretty silent... moreso than my chorus 10 used to be... 

i would suspect improper dérailleur setup myself. Campy's way is different, but it works.

lube making it quieter? just using homebrew here. 5w-30 roughly 2:3 mixed with mineral turpentine.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

wankski said:


> that's weird. my chorus11 is pretty silent... moreso than my chorus 10 used to be...
> 
> i would suspect improper dérailleur setup myself. Campy's way is different, but it works.
> 
> lube making it quieter? just using homebrew here. 5w-30 roughly 2:3 mixed with mineral turpentine.


It's not an usual complaint at all from what I've seen. Maybe the setup is improper but I highly doubt it. I've been using/setting up Campy only (for myself) for nearly 25 years... it isn't all that complicated. The problem was limited to the 53x17/straight chain line. Shifting performance has always been fine. Since switching to my home brew which is significantly thicker than your recipe the noise has dissipated significantly and to a level that meets expectations. Perhaps breaking in the chain and cassette has helped too.


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