# So... Team Sky



## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

Obviously they are doing terrible at the Giro. This makes me suspect that their "innovative training techniques" aren't what's winning them TDFs. My suspicion is that the non-doping version of Team Sky is riding the Giro, while the riders on the "program" are going to be riding the TDF. IMHO if Sky starts decimating the field by riding off the front in the TDF they are a bunch of doped-up monkeys.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

DrSmile said:


> Obviously they are doing terrible at the Giro. This makes me suspect that their "innovative training techniques" aren't what's winning them TDFs. My suspicion is that the non-doping version of Team Sky is riding the Giro, while the riders on the "program" are going to be riding the TDF. IMHO if Sky starts decimating the field by riding off the front in the TDF they are a bunch of doped-up monkeys.


cool story bro.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

DrSmile said:


> Obviously they are doing terrible at the Giro. This makes me suspect that their "innovative training techniques" aren't what's winning them TDFs. My suspicion is that the non-doping version of Team Sky is riding the Giro, while the riders on the "program" are going to be riding the TDF. IMHO if Sky starts decimating the field by riding off the front in the TDF they are a bunch of doped-up monkeys.


So to summarize, if riders do well they're doping, if riders don't do well they're doping. Why don't you just say you believe riders are doping and will fit any observation to fit your faith-based belief.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

asgelle said:


> So to summarize, if riders do well they're doping, if riders don't do well they're doping. Why don't you just say you believe riders are doping and will fit any observation to fit your faith-based belief.


Well WADA has just put Argon, which is 1% of the air you and I breathe, on their banned substances list. So whether they do well or not they are actually doping as long as they are breathing.

As are you BTW, you doper.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

Wow I'm getting flashbacks from 15 years ago... My point was that if Sky is sucking in the Giro and then all the sudden excels in the Tour, it can't be their "training techniques" that are doing it. Personally I'm waiting for Wiggo to come clean once the statute of limitations has passed.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Marc said:


> Well WADA has just put Argon, which is 1% of the air you and I breathe, on their banned substances list. So whether they do well or not they are actually doping as long as they are breathing.
> 
> As are you BTW, you doper.


"Xenon is a trace gas in Earth's atmosphere, occurring at 87±1 parts per billion (nL/L), or approximately 1 part per 11.5 million,[49] and is also found in gases emitted from some mineral springs." 
how does this translate into 1%? 

(probably because ALL inert gasses together is around 1%. but that does not carry enough derp I guess).


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

DrSmile said:


> Wow I'm getting flashbacks from 15 years ago... My point was that if Sky is sucking in the Giro and then all the sudden excels in the Tour, it can't be their "training techniques" that are doing it. Personally I'm waiting for Wiggo to come clean once the statute of limitations has passed.


claiming victim status already? 
have you actually seen the team they have sent to the giro? pretty clear they don't care about the gc but have to start. probably don't care about stages either. considering previous track record in the giro that is hardly surprising. 

they may be doping but to use the results at the giro as proof is silly at best.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

den bakker said:


> claiming victim status already?
> have you actually seen the team they have sent to the giro? pretty clear they don't care about the gc but have to start. probably don't care about stages either. considering previous track record in the giro that is hardly surprising.
> 
> they may be doping but to use the results at the giro as proof is silly at best.


None of this blather is relevant to my point, unless the training techniques are somehow different for the Giro riders vs the TDF riders. Victim? The only victims are the ones who don't dope and lose.


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

DrSmile said:


> None of this blather is relevant to my point, unless the training techniques are somehow different for the Giro riders vs the TDF riders. Victim? The only victims are the ones who don't dope and lose.


this only makes any sense if all people are the same and there's no difference in inherent capability from person to person.


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

DrSmile said:


> None of this blather is relevant to my point, unless the training techniques are somehow different for the Giro riders vs the TDF riders.


And who says they aren't? You begin with the assumption that it is inconceivable, but actually it makes a lot of sense. It would be smart to test a new training strategy in a lower priority race to gain actionable information to guide preparation for a higher priority one.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

den bakker said:


> "Xenon is a trace gas in Earth's atmosphere, occurring at 87±1 parts per billion (nL/L), or approximately 1 part per 11.5 million,[49] and is also found in gases emitted from some mineral springs."
> how does this translate into 1%?
> 
> (probably because ALL inert gasses together is around 1%. but that does not carry enough derp I guess).


I said Argon originally, and I meant it. Amigo, it wasn't just Xenon they banned it was Argon too. 

WADA bans inhalation of xenon and argon gases by athletes, places them on prohibited list - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

WADA bans xenon and argon - Slowtwitch.com

Xenon Added To Banned Substances List | Cyclingnews.com


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## den bakker (Nov 13, 2004)

Marc said:


> I said Argon originally, and I meant it. Amigo, it wasn't just Xenon they banned it was Argon too.
> 
> WADA bans inhalation of xenon and argon gases by athletes, places them on prohibited list - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
> 
> ...


my bad


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## RaptorTC (Jul 20, 2012)

DrSmile said:


> None of this blather is relevant to my point, unless the training techniques are somehow different for the Giro riders vs the TDF riders.


Riding fast isn't purely based on training. Natural ability also plays a huge part, and that's where the differences between the Giro squad and the TdF squad lie. 

I'm not saying I don't have my suspicions, I'm just saying that them not doing well in a race they don't care about yet doing well in a race that is their whole season doesn't give us evidence of anything.


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## PaxRomana (Jan 16, 2012)

Sky don't have any innovative training techniques. It's the same BS argument used by the Lance fans to excuse ludicrous performances. "Oh, look, he has high cadence...oh and he measures his food...and he rides a lot!" 

Same crap. Sky are muppets. They're just peddling nonsense to clueless adoring British masses. Same as Lance 15 years ago.


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## The Tedinator (Mar 12, 2004)

So, to the OP, if say, you are a pro rider, and you sucked at the Tour of Poland.... but 4 weeks later ripped the Vuelta up, finishing second despite hauling that noted boat anchor Brad Wiggins around Spain; you would suspect shenanigans?


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## mjduct (Jun 1, 2013)

Who are sky's golden children? Wiggo... Not there, Porte... Not there, Fromme... Not there. It's obvious that they don't care about the giro, in fact wiggo was quoted at the Tour of California stating that it was the second most important race of these year that was targeted by sky last offseason. 21st century fox is based in CAli, they were all about making the sponsors happy, so they are keeping the studs for the tour, and they put the B team at the ATOC, so the Giro is getting the 3rd string at best, the underperforming guys on the cutting block at worst (Ice cream man anyone)


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## love4himies (Jun 12, 2012)

If Porte did go as planned, it may be a different story for Sky. As it is now, they don't have any of their GC best riders there and their goal is the TdF.

I get what you are saying. If they have the best training methods, then all their riders should be top notch, but I believe you need a natural ability, be on top of your form, the drive to win along with training to win a GT.


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## Local Hero (Jul 8, 2010)

DrSmile said:


> Wow I'm getting flashbacks from 15 years ago... My point was that if Sky is sucking in the Giro and then all the sudden excels in the Tour, it can't be their "training techniques" that are doing it. Personally I'm waiting for Wiggo to come clean once the statute of limitations has passed.


What about Wiggo and the Tour of California? 

I don't know if he's riding the tdf. But he's a dominant sky rider.


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## Marc (Jan 23, 2005)

mjduct said:


> Who are sky's golden children? Wiggo... Not there, Porte... Not there, Fromme... Not there. It's obvious that they don't care about the giro, in fact wiggo was quoted at the Tour of California stating that it was the second most important race of these year that was targeted by sky last offseason. *21st century fox is based in CAli*, they were all about making the sponsors happy, so they are keeping the studs for the tour, and they put the B team at the ATOC, so the Giro is getting the 3rd string at best, the underperforming guys on the cutting block at worst (Ice cream man anyone)


Amigo, maybe you don't know this and this is news to you....

But the "Sky" of "Team Sky" of "Sky ____ Channel" is 40% owned, that is a controlling stake BTW, by 21st Century Fox...AKA News Corp AKA Rupert Murdoch.

"Sky", "21st Century Fox", and "News Corp" are rather interchangeable labels for the same exact thing.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

We need to get away from the concept of "superior" riders. Allow me to quote Allan Lim from Cycle of Lies:

Lim considered it funny that stories about Armstrong always touted his superior physiology. I mentioned a story in the New Yorker from 2002 that described Armstrong's physical superlatives, like his unusually long thighbones. Lim laughed.
"All top riders have thighbones that are unusually long." he said.
His heart is unusually large, a third larger than the average man's?
"So is Christian Vande Velde's, so is *Bradley Wiggins's*," he said, mentioning two top Tour riders with whom he had worked.
He has a resting heart rate of 32?
"So does Christian Vande Velde, so does Floyd Landis."


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## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

DrSmile said:


> We need to get away from the concept of "superior" riders.


So in your mind all riders are equal physically and the only thing that determines who wins is who is on the best "program." Great insight.


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## mjduct (Jun 1, 2013)

Marc said:


> Amigo, maybe you don't know this and this is news to you....
> 
> But the "Sky" of "Team Sky" of "Sky ____ Channel" is 40% owned, that is a controlling stake BTW, by 21st Century Fox...AKA News Corp AKA Rupert Murdoch.
> 
> "Sky", "21st Century Fox", and "News Corp" are rather interchangeable labels for the same exact thing.


Yeah...

Thanks for reinforcing my point that they set California as a higher priority than the Giro, and accordingly set their roster to perform where it mattered... TO THE SPONSORS


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## matabala (Aug 10, 2004)

The Sky isn't falling but the boys from Britain are feeling the heat from the vampires. Froome has been blowing hot and cold all year, Porte has been a no-show, sickly and suffering from post-traumatic enhancement syndrome. They somehow managed to get the Tiernan-Locke proceedings moved back to not cast negative shadows on the T of France defense. Wiggo still the wily pro, better than most even without the juice. How will the young Americans fare in the Sky system? 

By the way, who was the Amazing Hulk that won US Pros today?


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## SNS1938 (Aug 9, 2013)

PaxRomana said:


> Sky don't have any innovative training techniques. It's the same BS argument used by the Lance fans to excuse ludicrous performances. "Oh, look, he has high cadence...oh and he measures his food...and he rides a lot!"
> 
> Same crap. Sky are muppets. They're just peddling nonsense to clueless adoring British masses. Same as Lance 15 years ago.


Exactly, couldn't have said it better myself.


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## jaggrin (Feb 18, 2011)

DrSmile said:


> Obviously they are doing terrible at the Giro. This makes me suspect that their "innovative training techniques" aren't what's winning them TDFs. My suspicion is that the non-doping version of Team Sky is riding the Giro, while the riders on the "program" are going to be riding the TDF. IMHO if Sky starts decimating the field by riding off the front in the TDF they are a bunch of doped-up monkeys.


Maybe they are just the bad dopers? Do you think all the other teams are doping or just Sky? I bet when you close your eyes for a second and open them you see pink elephants in the room.


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## DrSmile (Jul 22, 2006)

jaggrin said:


> Maybe they are just the bad dopers? Do you think all the other teams are doping or just Sky? I bet when you close your eyes for a second and open them you see pink elephants in the room.


If there is anything I have learned from the Lance Armstrong saga it's that there is no even playing field when it comes to doping. People advocating this are oversimplifying the issue. Lance's recent testimony alleges that the team owner and manager knew about and ran their doping program. Certainly there is tons of corroborating evidence to this effect from various books and articles. At the time, it was by far the most sophisticated doping program for any team. Telekom was also similar but not as sophisticated. I have strong suspicions that team Sky is following in the same footsteps. The key is to have the resources. To quote Cycle of Lies:

Vaughters told Andreu that he could “explain the whole way Lance dupes everyone, that it’s very complex how they avoid all the controls now, but it’s not any new drug or anything, just the resources and planning to pull off a well devised plan"

Floyd got caught because he didn't have those resources.


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## trailrunner68 (Apr 23, 2011)

DrSmile said:


> Floyd got caught because he didn't have those resources.


Landis got caught because the French lab screwed up. It came up with the wrong T:E ratio for Floyd's sample which then triggered the CIR test. If the lab had been competent then Landis's program would have worked fine. Landis said himself that all he needed was blood transfusions and a bit of anabolics.

This idea that Armstrong's program was more sophisticated is a fiction invented by USADA. The Postal/Disco riders were using refrigerated blood. That is a far cry from the freezing that was being done by others.


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