# Longer rides = a better case for 25mm tires?



## dgeesaman (Jun 9, 2010)

I've been riding 23mm tires on my Trek 2.1 (aluminum frame, carbon fork) since I bought it last year. While my bike is not uncomfortable, I'm going to ride longer this year than before. 

Is the comfort of a 25mm tire worth the slight loss of rolling efficiency?


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Losses*



dgeesaman said:


> I've been riding 23mm tires on my Trek 2.1 (aluminum frame, carbon fork) since I bought it last year. While my bike is not uncomfortable, I'm going to ride longer this year than before.
> 
> Is the comfort of a 25mm tire worth the slight loss of rolling efficiency?


It's a question only you can answer. The rolling resistance and comfort differences will depend both on your local road surfaces and the pressures you choose to run. In many cases, there will be no increase in rolling resistance. Tires are wear items. Try the larger size and see what you think.


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## dgeesaman (Jun 9, 2010)

I plan to do that regardless. However I'm told the difference between doing 60mi and doing 100mi is quite a lot so I won't really know the results until I'm done with the event.

Maybe it's worth mentioning that I weigh around 200lb right now, so I'm running the 23's at 110psi+. Everything about me screams rolling resistance. 

David


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## Mr. Versatile (Nov 24, 2005)

I think you'll instantly be able to tell the difference between the 23s & the 25s. The 25s are smoother, chushier, and it's more than likely they'll have LESS rolling resistance than your 23s do. The 25s will also wear longer.

Tire Rolling Resistance 
When selecting new tires, rolling resistance is probably one of the most underestimated and often ignored factors of tire performance. Most of us simply assume that the narrower a tire is, the better it'll roll. That's basically as far as our attention on the subject extends, before we quickly move on and concentrate our thoughts on more common factors such as puncture resistance, durability, weight, and grip.

The basics

In general terms, the total drag of a cyclist will consist of 80% tire rolling resistance and 20% wind resistance at 10 km/h or 6 mph. At 40 km/h or 25 mph the numbers will reverse, with total drag consisting of 80% wind resistance and 20% tire rolling resistance. 

A durable tire with a sturdy casing and a high level of puncture resistance, will not roll as well as a tire that's very compliant, light, and more delicate of construction. A wider tire will roll better and have better grip compared to a very narrow tire, but will suffer at high speeds due to aerodynamic drag.

If you want more proof/tech stuff regarding this, send me a PM & I'll send it to you.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Mr. Versatile said:


> I think you'll instantly be able to tell the difference between the 23s & the 25s. The 25s are smoother, chushier, and it's more than likely* they'll have LESS rolling resistance than your 23s do. The 25s will also wear longer.*
> 
> Tire Rolling Resistance
> When selecting new tires, rolling resistance is probably one of the most underestimated and often ignored factors of tire performance. Most of us simply assume that the narrower a tire is, the better it'll roll. That's basically as far as our attention on the subject extends, before we quickly move on and concentrate our thoughts on more common factors such as puncture resistance, durability, weight, and grip.
> ...


Definite agreement with the bolded.

The majority of cyclists who currently ride 23mm tires, shouldn't. They only do it because they're ignorant. ie: they think 700x23 will be faster than 700x25. A 700x25 tire is better in every way except weight. That difference in negligible and *should* be a non-issue.


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## dgeesaman (Jun 9, 2010)

Thanks, I'll try out the 25's.

David


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## Opus51569 (Jul 21, 2009)

The switch to 25s was definitely worth it to me. I could immeditely feel a difference. Make sure you have clearance, though. Mine just barely clear the brake calipers.


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## ZoSoSwiM (Mar 7, 2008)

I started on 23s like everyone else. Gave 25's a shot 2 years ago... Loved them. They were smoother and I felt faster. Maybe because of the increased comfort? 
Since then I'm nearly 40 pounds lighter so I'm switching back to 23's after the roads are cleaned up a bit this year. It'll be interesting to see how they feel in comparison.


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## wim (Feb 28, 2005)

dgeesaman said:


> Thanks, I'll try out the 25's.


Agree, 25s are the much better tires for you. But don't expect miracles. Towards the end of a 100-mile ride, the small comfort difference between 23s and 25s can easily be overwhelmed by the how another component (like your saddle) or piece of clothing interacted with your body. Turning this around, don't assume the change to 25s didn't work if you feel a little beat up after the ride.

Also keep in mind that to realize any more comfort from 25s than from 23s, you need to run the 25s at a slightly lower pressure than you ran your 23s. At identical pressures, the 25s would actually be less comfortable than the 23s. The rolling resistance increase because of the slightly lower pressure is so small that it doesn't matter.


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## scottzj (Oct 4, 2010)

Well I have been running 23's since I bought my road bike 3-4 months ago. I have recently bought new tires as I smoked the stock ones. I stayed with the 23c ones since they were factory equipment and didnt think about changing sizes. However I did ride a nicer carbon bike with 25c's and I did like the feel, but it could also be the bike too. So next purchase I might try them and see if I can feel a difference.


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## Hank Stamper (Sep 9, 2009)

I don't think it's even worth debating if you weigh 200 pounds regardless of how long your rides are. 25's.

You're not a super heavy weight or anything but roughly and non-scientifically speaking I don't think the case for 23s starts to get made until 175ish pounds. And 175 is probably a tad aggressive on the high side.


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## SuperTrooper169 (Jan 23, 2011)

I've been running 700x25C Continental GP4000's for a few hundred miles now and I'll never go back to anything else. Awesome tires well worth the price.


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## willieboy (Nov 27, 2010)

I started on 25's four months ago as they were standard equipment with my new bike. Recently I changed the wheel set and went with 23's. I like the feel of the 23's better. Perhaps it's the difference in the two tires. The stock 25's were Michelin Pro Optimum and the new 23's are Vredestein Fortezza TriComp's. I'm a rookie so it could be in my head. At the end of the day, I could ride either and be happy


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## cobrapatrol (May 18, 2010)

I have been riding Vittoria Rubino Pro Tech 28s on my brevet/DC bike and find that they aid in comfort and endurance. The wear on these tires is pretty high, though. I would like to try tubeless 25s after the Vittorias are worn out.


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## TomH (Oct 6, 2008)

I did my first century on 23's all around. Had 26''s all around when I got the bike, now a different 23c out back and a 26c up front (no particular reason). 

In all honesty.. none are that different. Road bikes shouldnt feel like sofas. A 25c tire at ~90psi is still a very stiff tire. The bigger tires take out a marginal amount of buzz, but at the end of the day the tire with the best compound rides best.

If you can choose the exact same tire in a 25 vs 23, sure go for the 25. Comparing against different models though, the better tire will ride better, 23/25 or not.


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## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

PlatyPius said:


> The majority of cyclists who currently ride 23mm tires, shouldn't. They only do it because they're ignorant. ie: they think 700x23 will be faster than 700x25. A 700x25 tire is better in every way except weight. That difference in negligible and *should* be a non-issue.


I agree, except with "A 700x25 tire is better in every way except weight' as a blanket statement. My 210 gram 25mm Vittoria OpenCorsa Evo CX are lighter than some 23mm tires that I own.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

Mike T. said:
 

> I agree, except with "A 700x25 tire is better in every way except weight' as a blanket statement. My 210 gram 25mm Vittoria OpenCorsa Evo CX are lighter than some 23mm tires that I own.


Generally speaking, and comparing Tire A 23mm to Tire A 25mm....


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## terbennett (Apr 1, 2006)

TomH said:


> I did my first century on 23's all around. Had 26''s all around when I got the bike, now a different 23c out back and a 26c up front (no particular reason).
> 
> In all honesty.. none are that different. Road bikes shouldnt feel like sofas. A 25c tire at ~90psi is still a very stiff tire. The bigger tires take out a marginal amount of buzz, but at the end of the day the tire with the best compound rides best.
> 
> If you can choose the exact same tire in a 25 vs 23, sure go for the 25. Comparing against different models though, the better tire will ride better, 23/25 or not.


I have to agree with this entire response, because I too can't tell that much of a difference unless the tires are different brand/model of tires. 25 vs. 23? Either way you'll be fine. As a fellow Clydesdale that is actually 15 lbs.heavier than you, I can't tell the difference.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Nov 11, 2009)

terbennett said:


> I have to agree with this entire response, because I too can't tell that much of a difference unless the tires are different brand/model of tires. 25 vs. 23? Either way you'll be fine. As a fellow Clydesdale that is actually 15 lbs.heavier than you, I can't tell the difference.


As a former Clydestale I can tell the difference.

With 23mm tires, I needed to run 100-105 psi front and 110-115 psi rear to avoid pinch flats.

With 25mm tires, I got away with 90-95 psi front and 100-105 psi rear


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