# Intervals?



## STLBILLY (Aug 1, 2012)

I keep hearing people say do intervals, my question is what intervals should I be doing? I am new to road biking and would like to build up my overall strength and speed, can someone point me to a training regimen I should be doing. Any apps for interval training? Thanks.


----------



## Solopc (Sep 9, 2008)

I was in your position. To be honest, still not that far removed from your position... This is the advice I got. ANY program with intervals will do wonders for you! It did for me. I remember after doing 8 weeks of the Time Crunched program outlined in Chris Carmichael's book (with the same name) I literally felt like I could rip the pedals off my bike while riding.

Take a look at the 4 programs in that book as a good starting place. Many different intervals are explained therein. Good luck.


----------



## frankdatank1337 (Jul 25, 2010)

Yeah, picking up a book would be the easiest thing. 
Each specific set of intervals will work a specific set of muscles and responses. A training book will help lay out what interval sets will be best for you. If you have the $$$ you can also get a coach.


----------



## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

STLBILLY said:


> I keep hearing people say do intervals, my question is what intervals should I be doing? I am new to road biking and would like to build up my overall strength and speed, can someone point me to a training regimen I should be doing. Any apps for interval training? Thanks.


It may not be necessary, depending on many things. Some people do intervals without realising it. It's called a hilly ride.


----------



## Srode (Aug 19, 2012)

sportstracker app for android has interval in the training plans, I probably need to try it - what different types of intervals are there? I had assumed its just a couple minutes full bore riding then a cool down for 5 or so minutes. I gather now it's more complex than this?


----------



## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

Srode said:


> sportstracker app for android has interval in the training plans, I probably need to try it - what different types of intervals are there? I had assumed its just a couple minutes full bore riding then a cool down for 5 or so minutes. I gather now it's more complex than this?


Intervals are just a way to structure a workout into time periods of effort at different intensities. How you design an interval workout is a matter of knowing what the primary purpose of such a session is, and how much time you have available, and what's physiologically feasible to perform.

e.g. an interval workout designed primarily to improve a rider's threshold power will be different to one designed primarily to improve their lactate tolerance.

You can define:

- the duration of intervals (from a few seconds to 30 minutes typically)
- the duration of recovery periods (from a few seconds to 30 minutes typically)
- the intensity during interval (it may be maximal for the duration, or something less than maximal)
- the intensity during recovery periods (which may be lying down doing nothing, to riding at a solid aerobic pace)
- the number of intervals (from one to dozens)
- the number of sets of intervals (from one to several)
- the duration between sets (from 10 to 60 minutes typically)


e.g. a simple and effective interval set designed to primarily target aerobic threshold development would be to perform 2 x 20-minute efforts at a hard effort level (power) you could sustain for about 60-90 minutes max, with a recovery period in between of up to 5-minutes of easy pedaling.


----------



## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Alex_Simmons/RST said:


> - the intensity during recovery periods (which may be lying down doing nothing)


Just like Sir Chris Hoy.


----------



## plx (Mar 28, 2011)

intervals are only for pros


----------



## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

plx said:


> intervals are only for pros


What rubbish.


----------



## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

Alex_Simmons/RST said:


> It may not be necessary, depending on many things. Some people do intervals without realising it. It's called a hilly ride.


This. I do intervals on a trainer but outside I do hills.


----------



## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

Alex_Simmons/RST said:


> What rubbish.


I'm a retired old geezer and don't race anymore and I still do them. They're for anyone who wants to be faster than those who don't do them.


----------



## kmunny19 (Aug 13, 2008)

reading free internet info (so taken with a grain of salt), one common idea was to know what your maximum possible effort is (be it max heartrate, lactate threshold, max power, max 1 hour power, etc) before you start. then to measure your interval effort based as reaching a certain percentage of one of those things, for a given time. 

so some measurement, knowledge of your personal threshold for effort can be pretty helpful. 

another common theme was recovery, serious rest between intervals, of a similar duration of the interval.

however, if one hasn't the capacity to check their lactate threshold, one hour power, 20 mile tt sustained effort, etc., they can still probably go by feel. try just going as fast for 3-4 minutes as you can, the go as slow for 2-3 minutes as you can...repeat for an hour or so. warm up well first, and have a decent base so you don't overstress the muscles, and listen to the muscles, don't push cramping muscles, or spasms, until you have a very good feel for what the day after results of those feelings will be.

as Mike T said, intervals are for those who want to get as fast as they can, and not just for 4 minutes at a time, they'll help you sustained tempo speed overall.


----------



## plx (Mar 28, 2011)

intervals are for people who like to always go hard, sadly you don't improve much that way


----------



## Alex_Simmons/RST (Jan 12, 2008)

plx said:


> intervals are for people who like to always go hard, sadly you don't improve much that way


more nonsense


----------



## asgelle (Apr 21, 2003)

plx said:


> intervals are for people who like to always go hard, sadly you don't improve much that way


Either a troll or doesn't bother to do much reading. How does 20 minutes at a 60-90 minute pace qualify as hard?


----------



## jmorgan (Apr 13, 2012)

All his posts are negative and add nothing of value, he is a troll.


----------



## odyssey12305 (May 17, 2012)

plx said:


> intervals are for people who like to always go hard, *sadly you don't improve much that way*


please tell me how I can improve without doing intervals, thanks


----------



## kamikazeDad (Sep 14, 2012)

As I can't start a new post and this one relates to my question, here I go:


I am putting together my training program for next year and trying to schedule a few but kicking weeks during the end of my base/start of my base. In the past the best thing I have ever done to kick me up a level is do a 6 day madison race. What better way to step up than 6 straight days of interval training, the really vicious kind where you have a person depending on you to make it around again and again. So why not create my own 6 day workout in April and kick it up early before the season starts for me?

However everything I read says doing intervals every day is a waste and that quality is better than quantity, and yet every year I do the six day I really feel that it helps ... so any thoughts on this subject?

If you wanted to max your training for the year, would you pick 3 or 4 really hard intervals spaced every other day or go for the 6day workout and hope that by day 6 you have something left in the tank? I am not talking about doing this every week, just 2 or 3 times a year before a rest period.


----------



## plx (Mar 28, 2011)

you should do 3 month of base training with little high intensity, unless you already have some good seasons unders your belt


----------



## kamikazeDad (Sep 14, 2012)

plx, I have raced on and off for 25 years now, so I am not worried base, I will get that ... I am just curious what other peoples thoughts are about throwing over training by interval death into the mix and how often and or early they would do it.

I personally have felt great improvements when doing this ... but is it possible it would have been even better if I had only done 4 interval sessions over 7 days instead. I understand there is capacity vs speed and all that and it depends on my goals, etc. I am just curious if 6 straight days of intervals would always be a bad idea, or if it could be used as a launch for a seasoned athlete. 

Granted I will always want to do a 6 day, so it will always be a part of my schedule, but what about doing it 2 or 3 times on purpose?


----------



## plx (Mar 28, 2011)

yes it is a bad idea
there are probably other things holding you back, how long are your longest rides? what is your volume?
you should be doing like 3 big rides a month that make your body dig deep in the end 
you should also try to improve your ammount of training by 15, 20% i know it's not easy but if you do this you will see results


----------



## kamikazeDad (Sep 14, 2012)

I don't have anything holding me back, doing very well, just trying to do better. I am just noticing a trend that after 6 straight days of madisons each year I get more fit. So why not move that forward in the season so that I can get fit earlier, as well as be better prepared for the 6 day when it does happen. Madisons are basically 40 seconds on, 40 seconds off for between 20 and 60 minutes with no extended rest, so that means upto 50 intervals back to back. Add that to 2 extra races each day and you end up 100% dead by day 6, but 100% fit after a few rest days. If once a year is good, I am starting to think 2 or 3 times a year would be even better.

I basically see it like the pro-tour riders see the vuelta to the world champs and the tour to the Olympics. Both were incredibly hard and long efforts that over taxed their systems to nearly the breaking point. Then at worlds and the Olympics those who over taxed themselves earlier are in the best position to win.

I see 3 days a month as far too few big efforts for myself and typically shoot for more like 10 or more hard days a month that make me suffer after I have a solid base. As for my volume, it is what it is and will not go up as I just don't have more time than the 8 to 12 hours per week I do now. So my only tweaks available are intensity and rest.

Anyone else have any thoughts, and sorry to STLBILLY for hijacking his thread.


----------



## aussiebullet (Sep 26, 2005)

plx said:


> yes it is a bad idea
> there are probably other things holding you back, how long are your longest rides? what is your volume?
> you should be doing like 3 big rides a month that make your body dig deep in the end



What do you call a big ride 4hrs, 6hrs.....8hrs?


----------



## Bike Poor (Sep 17, 2009)

to kamikazeDad:

I wouldn't think that doing that much intensity before base would help a lot if you have a particular time you want to peak. If you want to be strong year round it might help some. It sort of defeats the purpose of having a "base period" though which I read as the 2nd step in getting ready to handle the higher intensities. The first step is resting from the previous season.

I know I would lose most of the gains from the high intensity work by the time I finished what Friel defines as base.


----------



## kamikazeDad (Sep 14, 2012)

@ Bike Poor.

Sorry, I meant to say at the end of my base/start of my build. Basically I take the late fall off with riding 3 days a week. Then once winter starts ramp up again and then towards the end of my base as I start adding intervals throw in a death week. Then a brief rest followed by my build and then another death week before I start the season.

I agree at the start of my base it is likely not a good idea.


----------



## nightfend (Mar 15, 2009)

The general rule is to do 3 to 4 hard days a week max. The rest of the days should be easy. So maybe one should be a longer spirited group ride, and the other two could be interval sessions.


----------



## Powerfibers (Sep 4, 2012)

I have to think that recovery rides are under appreciated. I would not do too many hard interval workouts in a week, but make them count and then spin to recovery with little stress to clear those legs.


----------



## kamikazeDad (Sep 14, 2012)

Well, if anyone here knew me, they would know that I am the king of recovery ... to a fault if anything. I rarely if ever over train. Just getting myself on the bike some weeks is a chore, not in the sense of I hate riding, just I hate the cold or the rain, timing, life in the way, etc.

I will likely be attempting my killer death interval week next April and will just let you all know how it goes. I am thinking that one training interval until I don't want to see my bike should really boot me into my build portion of training and look forward to the decreased and crappy times I am putting out on Day 6. Come day 7 and 8 I will enjoy a nice recovery and off day, and then follow it up with a more regular schedule after that. 

Of course a study of one will not exactly inspire much confidence, but I think those in the audience who have actually done a 6 day madison race might appreciate my thought process.


----------



## LatvianRider (Sep 14, 2008)

kamikazeDad: If you have been racing on and off for 25 years you are probably starting to get to a point where you just cant do what you could do 10 years ago. So training the way you did back then is not a great idea. Our bodies change and adapt with age and we need to be aware of it. But again as with most of my posts, it comes down to specificity. Are you planning on doing a stage race that is six days long? No? well then replicating that is not a great idea. PM me if you want to chat more.


----------



## Mike T. (Feb 3, 2004)

LatvianRider said:


> kamikazeDad: Are you planning on doing a stage race that is six days long? No? well then replicating that is not a great idea. PM me if you want to chat more.


You don't know what a 6-day is and you're offering to give him coaching advice?


----------



## LatvianRider (Sep 14, 2008)

Mike thanks I know well and good what a six day race is. And yes some would call it a stage race. We have similar races in the states except riders don't ride on the track instead they race multiple days of crits. In fact some are two weeks long. Please don't be so assumptive. There are many ways to describe racing situations. And so I stand by my original question to the poster. What kind of racing will you be doing this season? And is it similar to the six days of intervals you propose? Yes? Great? There are still more things to consider. 
Best,
Mahting


----------



## kamikazeDad (Sep 14, 2012)

I was not posting this question for my specific situation, as I was more looking at the general ? of do any of the coaches/racers here have experience with killing it for 6 straight days. I have done this with success many times, and always feel better after it, as do many of my fellow 6 day racers. However my intervals at the end of the 6 days are pretty sad, but my thought is they are working something at that point that is slightly different than the standard intervals with rest are working and that it is good for you anyways.

So while I might be a 42 year old who is reaching the point where my body doesn't respond as well is not the point. The fact that I will be doing a 6 day madison race again in 2013 is not the point, I was hoping that I would find some other people who have experience with what 6 straight days of intervals does to you and if you could better replicate this with 4 sessions over 7 days instead for an early season jump start. As I mentioned earlier, this is like doing the tour to improve your shot at the Olympics.

My opinion is that I think everyone who is in solid shape and looking to get to the next level should plan at least 1 or 2 death weeks where they give themselves no rest at all ... it doesn't have to be a real 6 day, just go out and do 6 days of hard interval work in a row. Then rest accordingly and see how your fitness is the following weeks.

My racing goals are simple, if it is under an hour and flat, I should be able to win. Doesn't mean I do win, but I expect to be in the mix and have the condition and speed to do so if tactics play out my way.


----------



## MPov (Oct 22, 2010)

Would like people's thoughts as to whether I am doing this right:

During the week I usually can't ride outside so I have a programmable stationary bike. 2 or 3 days per week (usually Tues, Weds, Thursday) I will do a 50-60 minute workout where I warm up for about 5 minutes, then do intervals of around 1:15-1:30, where I turn the bike up to a high resistance level, trying to raise my heart rate to about 80-90% of maximum, followed by a rest period of equal length where I pedal with less resistance but at a higher cadence. I end with a 5 minute cool down.

Weekends I try to ride each day, anywhere from 35-50 miles per day, unless I am doing a group event like a century. I don't "train" on these rides per se but of course there are the hills. Some rides can get up to more than 3,500 feet of climbing, but 2000-2500 is more typical.

Any suggestions on how to improve?


----------



## Cableguy (Jun 6, 2010)

MPov said:


> 2 or 3 days per week (usually Tues, Weds, Thursday) I will do a 50-60 minute workout where I warm up for about 5 minutes, then do intervals of around 1:15-1:30... trying to raise my heart rate to about 80-90% of maximum?


Here is my take. If you've been riding for a while now and are healthy enough to push hard (i.e. not 70 years old), the current load you're doing is quite low. The work out you described above about is basically a ~20 minute interval at 80-90% max HR where every minute you stop the timer and rest for a minute... not very good. You should either do a continuous 20 minutes at that heart rate (start at ~80% and by the end be 90% or higher), or make each 1:15-1:30 minute interval much much harder and essentially go all out (in which case you won't be doing very many of them). Either way, increase the intensity and mix things up with different durations. If you're not questioning your sanity during the workout, you're going too easy. It comes down to how much you want it.

You should also aim to ride harder on the weekends, as it sounds like you're taking 2-3 days off per week and frankly I doubt it's physically possible for you to overtrain with that time off. In other words, the days that you do ride, if you do anything other than very hard, lung busting efforts, you're just short changing yourself. It's a simple as that. Ride more (time consuming) and/or harder.

Also be careful basing your effort by max heart rate, as 1) it changes on a day to day basis and 2) at any given time it is still just an estimate.


----------

