# Crits in New York City area?



## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

Is there anybody who races locally in the New York City area?

I have questions about getting started.


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## team_sheepshead (Jan 17, 2003)

I raced season-long in/around NYC for five years, and still do the occasional race. Fire away.


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## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

team_sheepshead said:


> I raced season-long in/around NYC for five years, and still do the occasional race. Fire away.


Hi TS.

Thanks in advance for any advice. So far, got some info from RBR members.

Any local training rides in Central Park that allows beginners to tag along?

Also, how does one prep a bike for cold weather riding?


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## team_sheepshead (Jan 17, 2003)

I would ask, training for what? The New York Spring Series, which is the first set of local park races, doesn't start until early March. 

I would also ask what do you mean by beginner? You mean beginning racer? Soon to be Cat. 5?

Some friends and I have been doing early morning CP rides on weekends, but it's too cold for that this weekend. PM me if you are interested. You're welcome to get up at dawn with us.

Some of the faster NYCC groups may still be riding in CP this time of year, but I doubt it. I know some of them were still doing Tuesday morning hill repeats as of a couple weeks ago. You can try posting at www.nycc.org. 

Some of the local teams are probably doing some base-mile rides in the park, but I'm not sure they'd take kindly to a newbie tagging along. You could always ask them if you see them, or check www.nyvelocity.com.


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## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

team_sheepshead said:


> I would ask, training for what? The New York Spring Series, which is the first set of local park races, doesn't start until early March.


Training just to be able to get in the lowest entry level race. 

After having gone through the links you put up, I've mapped out a plan.
I'm going to take the winter to get myself ready for the Spring. 

This was a fun read: https://nyvelocity.com/content/coachingfitness/2009/road-racing-101







> I would also ask what do you mean by beginner? You mean beginning racer? Soon to be Cat. 5?


Beginner enough to not even know how to answer that question. :lol: 

I've been Googling to see what info I can get on what condition I need to be in to get into a Cat 5 race. 
Hard to find anything specific. Everything just seems to come up "beginner category", 
but doesn't go into detail about at what level one should be performing. 
They almost all say "show up for your first race with a helmet, jersey, cycling shorts, etc...". 
But not much on physical prep (which IMO opinion would be the most important thing). 






> Some friends and I have been doing early morning CP rides on weekends, but it's too cold for that this weekend. PM me if you are interested. You're welcome to get up at dawn with us.


Check your PM's.














> Some of the faster NYCC groups may still be riding in CP this time of year, but I doubt it. I know some of them were still doing Tuesday morning hill repeats as of a couple weeks ago. You can try posting at www.nycc.org.


Thanks for the sites. Been checking them out. :thumbsup: 




My current plan (subject to change once I learn more about what I need to do): 

Spend the winter training and getting in great shape.
Ride as much as I can. 
Get a trainer for home. 
Find people to ride with regularly 
(weather permitting of course).
Upgrade my current bike for racing. 
Buy a pair of "real" RB shoes & gear. 

Goal: To be "race ready" by the Spring. 

By all means, feel free to add anything there you think I've missed.


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## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

Just got back.

27 degrees an all this talk of racing got me gearing up and taking the Trek for a spin at midnight!


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

*Night riding in the parks is great!*



2ndGen said:


> Just got back.
> 
> 27 degrees an all this talk of racing got me gearing up and taking the Trek for a spin at midnight!


Not sure of Central Park, but I've been putting some nighttime miles in Prospect Park. I love it. If you do any riding in Prospect Park at night drop me a PM.


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## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

jpdigital said:


> Not sure of Central Park, but I've been putting some nighttime miles in Prospect Park. I love it. If you do any riding in Prospect Park at night drop me a PM.



Hi J. 

I will do that. 

Thanks. 

:thumbsup:


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## team_sheepshead (Jan 17, 2003)

It's hard to quantify the level of fitness you will need to compete in a Cat. 5 race in Central Park. Every race is different, and within each race there is a difference between being fit enough to "enjoy yourself" and make a few attacks, and fit enough to just hang onto the back of the field without getting dropped.

Here is one very general guideline to be taken with a grain of salt: In the individual time trial, which is held in the summer, the strong Cat. 5 riders are able to ride two laps of CP between 15:30 and 16:00 per lap. That's the kind of sustained wattage these guys are able to put out during the summer. Spring races will likely be slower.

Your best bet is to find a group to ride with, preferably with at least some guys who are stronger than you. That helps with training, bike handling, motivation and advice. 

Hope that helps.


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## team_sheepshead (Jan 17, 2003)

2ndGen said:


> Hi TS.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any advice. So far, got some info from RBR members.
> 
> ...


To answer your question about winter riding, most racers do the following:
1. Use wet lube instead of dry lube.
2. Clean/lube the drivetrain more often.
3. Install at least a rear fender, sometimes front, too. Many folks use the cheap rear fender that attaches to the seatpost.
4. Use thicker tires to guard against flats from all the crap washed onto the roads.
5. Install small, white headlight and red blinky lights in rear.


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## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

team_sheepshead said:


> It's hard to quantify the level of fitness you will need to compete in a Cat. 5 race in Central Park. Every race is different, and within each race there is a difference between being fit enough to "enjoy yourself" and make a few attacks, and fit enough to just hang onto the back of the field without getting dropped.
> 
> Here is one very general guideline to be taken with a grain of salt: In the individual time trial, which is held in the summer, the strong Cat. 5 riders are able to ride two laps of CP between 15:30 and 16:00 per lap. That's the kind of sustained wattage these guys are able to put out during the summer. Spring races will likely be slower.
> 
> ...


If I've read correctly, Central Park is a 6 mile loop, yes? 

If that's accurate, I should be able to accomplish that.
I easily avg 15mph consistently on easy rising terrain and close to 20 on flats. 
I'm going to ride it this week and see what I can do. 

 

When I rode locally this pass summer, 
I'd pair up with a bud who CX races. 
When we first began riding and I'd be exhausted,
I'd plant myself on his wheel and focus on that. 

Lot's of helpful info here. I'm going to see how group ready I am this week. 

Thanks. 

:thumbsup:


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## team_sheepshead (Jan 17, 2003)

Math makes it easy to quantify how much bike racers need to suffer. Central Park is 6.1 miles around. For a Cat. 5 to do a 32-minute, two-lap time trial, which would put him in the middle of the results in a competitive event, he has to average 22.88 mph for 12.2 miles on a rolling course.

Of course, putting out power in a TT and riding in a mass-start race are two completely different forms of racing. One of the big challenges I found when I first started racing was this: When I first started racing and I'd be exhausted, I'd plant myself on a wheel and focus on that. AND THEN the pace would accelerate. I'd already be above my LT, someone would attack and that wheel would start to pull away from me.

A lot of what happens in these short park races happens at the high end of your aerobic threshold. You've got to be able to ride at LT, attack, go anaerobic, recover, and then do it again. If you want to podium, that is. Of course if you have the fitness, you can just sit in the pack all spring, get your 10 races and upgrade to Cat. 4.

Not trying to discourage you, but racing is about suffering. When everyone in the race is suffering, who can take it, and who can make the rest of the guys suffer even more.




2ndGen said:


> If I've read correctly, Central Park is a 6 mile loop, yes?
> 
> If that's accurate, I should be able to accomplish that.
> I easily avg 15mph consistently on easy rising terrain and close to 20 on flats.
> ...


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## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

No, it's good to know.

What do you mean by "rolling course"?


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

2ndGen said:


> What do you mean by "rolling course"?


You spend more time either going uphill or going downhill than you do riding on level terrain.

Especially from the hill at the top of the park (the northernmost part) and back down to 79th street (I think). There's also a hill that can sneak up on you past the 72nd Ave turnoff on the east side of the park.

None of them are long, but especailly in a race, I could imagine they're used to put people into the hurt locker.


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## team_sheepshead (Jan 17, 2003)

jpdigital said:


> You spend more time either going uphill or going downhill than you do riding on level terrain.
> 
> Especially from the hill at the top of the park (the northernmost part) and back down to 79th street (I think). There's also a hill that can sneak up on you past the 72nd Ave turnoff on the east side of the park.
> 
> None of them are long, but especailly in a race, I could imagine they're used to put people into the hurt locker.


jp is right. Very little of Central Park is what I would call flat. The only really flat parts are along the reservoir on the east side (but there's usually a headwind), along the lake on the west side and along the 180-degree curve at the south end. Everyplace else has at least a little bit of an incline.

jp is also right about the toughest part: from Harlem Hill heading south along the west side. After Harlem Hill (which is about 1/2 mile climb at 6%) there are three rollers one after another. This is where a lot of guys feel like they're going to vomit, and where many of the attacks happen.


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## jpdigital (Dec 1, 2006)

*coming from a non-racer*

The racing scene here is a lot more agressive than other places I've lived, I think part of it is the culture, the other part seems to be that shorter races is almost all there is, which are inherantly much more agressive. It's all about the sprint finish. 

Don't be put off by TS's descriptions, it's much better to plan ahead knowing what you're getting into as opposed to having _absolutly no idea then being outclassed before the 1st lap is over_. Start training your mind now, and use your time in CP in the off season to become familiar with the terrain, even if you have to ride it solo, there's always something you can take away from each ride, even if it's not an all-out effort. :thumbsup:


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## team_sheepshead (Jan 17, 2003)

jpdigital said:


> The racing scene here is a lot more agressive than other places I've lived, I think part of it is the culture, the other part seems to be that shorter races is almost all there is, which are inherantly much more agressive. It's all about the sprint finish.
> 
> Don't be put off by TS's descriptions, it's much better to plan ahead knowing what you're getting into as opposed to having _absolutly no idea then being outclassed before the 1st lap is over_. Start training your mind now, and use your time in CP in the off season to become familiar with the terrain, even if you have to ride it solo, there's always something you can take away from each ride, even if it's not an all-out effort. :thumbsup:


jp really knows his/her stuff. 2ndGen, let's try to get in a ride sometime.


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## team_sheepshead (Jan 17, 2003)

2ndGen said:


> No, it's good to know.
> 
> What do you mean by "rolling course"?


This is also a good primer on the mental aspects of bike racing, especially for Cat. 5s: http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=7802&status=True&catname=Latest News

It's just a personal belief, but I think as a Cat. 5 you want to have the mental and physical fitness to "make the race," rather than just react to what other guys do.


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## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

jpdigital said:


> You spend more time either going uphill or going downhill than you do riding on level terrain.
> 
> Especially from the hill at the top of the park (the northernmost part) and back down to 79th street (I think). There's also a hill that can sneak up on you past the 72nd Ave turnoff on the east side of the park.
> 
> None of them are long, but especailly in a race, I could imagine they're used to put people into the hurt locker.


Sounds like my normal mile loop (which coincidentally is 6 miles also).  

Heading north, it's almost moderately all uphill and coming back, it's about 1/2 is uphill, a 1/4 down and a 1/4 flat. 

After living in Morgantown, West Virginia for a spell, I've become fond of hills. 
I had to. It's almost all hilly except for the bike paths (they had great bike paths). 

Can't get out there today (just going to ride locally), but will hit CP this week (weather permitting). I'll time myself and see how I do.


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## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

team_sheepshead said:


> jp really knows his/her stuff. 2ndGen, let's try to get in a ride sometime.


Yeah.

But before I do, I'm going to make sure I'm "up for it" with you two! :lol:

When I'm running "right", I'll ride with you so that I won't be a drag on the day.

When I was in WV, I did some great riding out there, but it's been about 3 weeks that I haven't "really" ridden hard. I got to throw in a nice little 20+ mile ride a few days ago and ride almost every other day to keep myself loose (though only a few miles at best), but I'll see how ready I am in a few days. Will get back with my CP two loop time(s) and let you guys decide if I'm still invited.


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## 2ndGen (Oct 10, 2008)

team_sheepshead said:


> This is also a good primer on the mental aspects of bike racing, especially for Cat. 5s: http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=7802&status=True&catname=Latest News
> 
> It's just a personal belief, but I think as a Cat. 5 you want to have the mental and physical fitness to "make the race," rather than just react to what other guys do.


Thanks for the article. :thumbsup: 

That's one thing I love about road biking. It's such a personal sport. 

You really compete against yourself mostly. 
There is almost always some reserve from which to draw from.
And even "if" you reach your limit, more likely than not, 
it's at a higher level then the last time you did and that leaves me feeling great. 
It's almost like there's no failure so long as you always improve. 

I remember riding one time huffing and puffing and looking for a bench to pull over to sit on 
and these two riders gently blew by me, pedaling in unison, steadily and accelerating. 

Something in me just jumped and I started to chase them not to ride with them, but if I was able to just keep them in my sights, I would've been happy. At that moment, I totally forgot about being tired. So, I picked up the pace and got within 5 bike lengths. I didnt want to be to obvious so I laid back. I hung with them for a while before they turned off, but as they did, one looked back and saw me and smiled and nodded. 

Then, I wasn't tired anymore. To the contrary, I felt lively. 

I didn't think about it back then, but when I stopped that day, I started to kick myself about almost quitting when I could've ridden more. After that day, I never stop until I begin to feel physical signs that my body is going to give up. That, I don't ignore. But I swore that as long as I could pedal, I'd never stop to rest because if I could pedal, I didn't need rest.


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## r_mutt (Aug 8, 2007)

doing 2 TT laps of CP at a 15:30 pace isn't as easy as it sounds. if you can do that, then you're more than ready for a cat 5 race. of course, you'll have to do 6 of them at that pace (in a group). cat 5 race lap times last year were in the 14's and 15's.


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