# First bike and LBS advice



## uwhuskies (Aug 19, 2011)

Hi all, looking to getting into road riding for the first time in my life. I've been researching a lot online, talking to friends who ride and have spent some time in my LBS. The first few LBS I went to I was really discouraged. They didn't seem to really care to want to help me and didn't offer my any more advice over what I had learned online.

Then I went to Tacoma Bike. I was blown away by their obvious love of riding and wanting to make sure you get into the right bike. I have been wanting to spend only around $700 (so getting something with Sora or Tiagra components) but after spending an hour or so at this shop talking to the guys and even sitting on a bike on a trainer, they have me convinced to spend more and get a bike with 105 components.

Problem is, the bikes they have in the shop are in the $1100-1400 range. This is quite a bit more than I originally wanted to spend. So my first question is around pricing at the LBS...are these shops like car dealerships at all, can I try and haggle and get the price down? I don't want to be insulting if that is not the way it is, so I thought I would ask on here first.

I was going to buy my bike online, but I really want to give these guys my business.

Here are the bikes they showed me:

Giant Defy 1 - $1400
Defy 1 (2011) - Bikes | Giant Bicycles | United States

Raleigh Revenio 3.0 - $1150
Raleigh Bicycles Revenio 3.0

Felt F85 - $1100
F85 - Felt Bicycles

Of these, they said the Raleigh would probably be a perfect fit for me. However, looking on this site and others I have found instances of people getting the bike for more around the $1k range, so I'm wondering if I could get it for that. The Giant I think would be the best bike, but the price is just too steep for me. If I could get it down, I would be interested.

The prices above was what they were marked in the store. Also have to add another almost 10% in sales tax.

Any tips or advice would be much appreciated!


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

uwhuskies said:


> Hi all, looking to getting into road riding for the first time in my life. I've been researching a lot online, talking to friends who ride and have spent some time in my LBS. The first few LBS I went to I was really discouraged. They didn't seem to really care to want to help me and didn't offer my any more advice over what I had learned online.
> 
> Then I went to Tacoma Bike. I was blown away by their obvious love of riding and wanting to make sure you get into the right bike. I have been wanting to spend only around $700 (so getting something with Sora or Tiagra components) but after spending an hour or so at this shop talking to the guys and even sitting on a bike on a trainer, they have me convinced to spend more and get a bike with 105 components.
> 
> ...


The Revenio 3.0 is supposed to retail for $1250 for 2011. It goes up for 2012.

I sold one for $1000, but only because the guy was a very good customer AND a friend of mine. $1150 is already $100 off of MSRP. Keep in mind that you'll probably get a discount on anything else you buy too, such as pedals.


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## uwhuskies (Aug 19, 2011)

PlatyPius said:


> The Revenio 3.0 is supposed to retail for $1250 for 2011. It goes up for 2012.
> 
> I sold one for $1000, but only because the guy was a very good customer AND a friend of mine. $1150 is already $100 off of MSRP. Keep in mind that you'll probably get a discount on anything else you buy too, such as pedals.


They said they got a deal from Raleigh on the bikes and that's why they were able to sell them under MSRP.

That was the other thing I was wondering...if I could try and work some accessories into the deal, as I don't have anything but a helmet. Going to need a saddle bag, spare tube, CO2, all that kind of stuff.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

uwhuskies said:


> They said they got a deal from Raleigh on the bikes and that's why they were able to sell them under MSRP.
> 
> That was the other thing I was wondering...if I could try and work some accessories into the deal, as I don't have anything but a helmet. Going to need a saddle bag, spare tube, CO2, all that kind of stuff.


They'll probably be receptive to discounted/free accessories. We get a higher margin on accessories than on anything else. Bikes are the lowest margin, the highest expense, and most time-intensive (assembly, fitting to people for test rides, cleaning after test rides, etc).


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## sherlock (Aug 6, 2011)

The Defy 1 is probably the best "bang for buck", especially in terms of specification. The Felt F85 ain't bad though, especially for that price, and if you're locked into $1100 (which is about $1300 after accessories) then I'd go with that. Don't know enough about the Raleigh to comment but I like the stance of the F-series Felts. Would generally recommend them but the F75 ($1399) vs. Defy 1 is a fairer comparison when talking price points.

MSRP on the F85 is $1099 so I'd hope they could give you a nice discount on accessories if they sell it to you at that price.



uwhuskies said:


> Of these, they said the Raleigh would probably be a perfect fit for me. However, looking on this site and others I have found instances of people getting the bike for more around the $1k range, so I'm wondering if I could get it for that. The Giant I think would be the best bike, but the price is just too steep for me. If I could get it down, I would be interested.


On this: what was actually the best fit? Did you ride any? Don't even decide until you test ride all three.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

sherlock said:


> On this: what was actually the best fit? Did you ride any? Don't even decide until you test ride all three.


+1. Everyone wants a good deal, but before centering attention on that, focus on intended uses and fit. 

Of the three bikes you have listed, two have a more relaxed (or endurance) geometry, which offer a rider a slightly more upright position and slightly slower (some say, more predictable) handling. The Defy being more 'relaxed' than the Raleigh, and the Felt is purely a race bike. Which you may prefer is the reason why getting sized/ fitted and test riding the bikes (out on the roads and for some duration) is important. It'll give you a feel for the fit, ride and handling of the bikes, and you can whittle your choices from there.

You don't offer much detail re: intended uses (recreational, fitness/ training rides, centuries, etc.), but on the issue of groupsets (and given your budget), I think 105 is really above what will meet your needs (notice, I said _needs_). Since you're starting out, and assuming racing isn't in the picture, Sora likely would do you fine, but Tiagra most certainly would, and would keep you within budget for accessories, etc.


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## uwhuskies (Aug 19, 2011)

sherlock said:


> On this: what was actually the best fit? Did you ride any? Don't even decide until you test ride all three.


Didn't get to ride any as they didn't have either one assembled in the right size but they said they had them in stock and could put them together for me. I wanted to probably narrow it down to just two so they dont have to put together 3 bikes.


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## uwhuskies (Aug 19, 2011)

PJ352 said:


> You don't offer much detail re: intended uses (recreational, fitness/ training rides, centuries, etc.), but on the issue of groupsets (and given your budget), I think 105 is really above what will meet your needs (notice, I said _needs_). Since you're starting out, and assuming racing isn't in the picture, Sora likely would do you fine, but Tiagra most certainly would, and would keep you within budget for accessories, etc.


Sorry, forgot this in my original post. Right off the bad it's just going to be for fitness, probably 20-30 mile rides 3 days a week at start. Also, hoping to use it to commute as well (about 30 miles total) but this depends on a few other things, mostly out of my control, so I'm not 100% sure this will come about.

Racing isn't in the picture, but I do hope to get to century rides in the not so distant future if my body can get there. I live in WA state and there are a ton of great places to go for long scenic rides.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

uwhuskies said:


> Sorry, forgot this in my original post. Right off the bad it's just going to be for fitness, probably 20-30 mile rides 3 days a week at start. Also, hoping to use it to commute as well (about 30 miles total) but this depends on a few other things, mostly out of my control, so I'm not 100% sure this will come about.
> 
> Racing isn't in the picture, but I do hope to get to century rides in the not so distant future if my body can get there. I live in WA state and there are a ton of great places to go for long scenic rides.


For your uses Sora or Tiagra will suite your needs. Proper gearing (for your terrain/ fitness) will matter more, but if you want to avoid the thumb shifter on Sora STI's (somewhat difficult to use while riding in the drops), then opt for Tiagra. It uses the same inner/ outer levers as Shimano 105 (and up).

In the interest of full disclosure, Sora and Tiagra are currently 9 spd while 105 and up are 10, but in most instances the loss of one cog at the rear isn't an issue. Also, FWIW Tiagra is going 10 speed in 2012, so something to keep in mind. 

The bottom line remains the same. Test ride, then decide.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

uwhuskies said:


> I wanted to probably narrow it down to just two so they dont have to put together 3 bikes.


LBS's are used to assembling bikes, so don't fret about it. Besides, if you stick with this, you're going to have this bike awhile, so IMO to make an educated decision you have to ride all three before deciding.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

OP - all three of those bikes fall somewhere in the middle of their ranges. So if you don't want to spend $1100-$1400, don't. Tell the shop what you do have to spend.

IME, the components on a bike are somewhat temporary. I think it's silly when people buy bikes and start bolting "upgrades" to them right out of the gate, but anything with moving parts has a somewhat limited service life. Bike frames tend to stop being used by their owners because of a desire for something new, damage in an accident, or eventual lack of compatibility of new parts. The first two can happen any time, the last one takes many years. And the ride quality and handling of a cheap and expensive version of the same model should be more alike than different, especially if one were to put the same tires on each. So you're not going to be locked into whatever parts are on the bike in order to fit it in your pricepoint. I do have some opinions about which builds have lowest cost-of-ownership over time, but we can't all (and I certainly can't for a while) afford to spend $1300 or whatever up front. Going cheaper usually just means that after the first year, you'll need a couple things, after the second year you'll need a couple things, after five years you'll need a couple things. If you understand mechanical systems relatively well and apply some perspective, it's actually not that expensive. Just more than if you got a bike that only needs tires, chains, cassettes and brake pads for the first five years. (Well, maybe more. Maybe about the same, to be honest.)


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## uwhuskies (Aug 19, 2011)

Thanks PJ for the advice.

Andrw, it's not that I can't afford these bikes, it's that when I started doing all my research and everything I was only really wanting to commit $700-800 in case riding didn't work out for me.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

uwhuskies said:


> Thanks PJ for the advice.
> 
> Andrw, it's not that I can't afford these bikes, it's that when I started doing all my research and everything I was only really wanting to commit $700-800 in case riding didn't work out for me.


Then look at the Revenio 2.0. Just keep in mind that if you do really get into cycling, it's much more expensive to upgrade a bike than it is to just buy that bike in the first place.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I think people are usually best served by spending their real number. Whatever that is. I'd consider the F75 a little more comparable to the other bikes by build. The F-series are racers, while I think the Defy and Revenio are a little more laid back. Which is better is a matter of preference.

The 105 stuff on my nicer bike took many years to start wearing out. It's a '99 model that I bought in 2000, and while it spent a little time in the garage and then on loan to my mother, it's also gotten a fair amount of use. I think high-mileage riders need to replace a couple things every year no matter what component level they buy, although some years it might just be the cassette and tires. Chains tend to wear out more frequently. Or at least, I kill chains faster than tires. There are a bunch of exposed moving parts that need to function in a precise way on a bike, hardly a recipe for low maintenance. Especially in the Pacific Northwest.

The build on my 'cross bike hasn't fared as well. First of all, it's not a full Tiagra group like what's on my road bike - it's just the shifters, derailleurs and rear hub. Most of the Tiagra stuff is doing fine, but the things that aren't Tiagra haven't done so well. I mostly use the bike for racing 'cross, so my experience may not be representative of how that bike would do when ridden only on the road or trails that haven't been whipped into frothy mud. This is a problem that's common to bikes at the Tiagra/Sora/2300 pricepoints, though - they don't have the full whatever-it-is group, and while I think Shimano's inexpensive parts are excellent, there are cheaper parts that can be substituted to fit the bike into whatever budget the company set for it.

If you don't want to spend as much, also consider used bikes. I think there's something in the South Sound area, but I'm further north, and only know the shops near me. Or just get the bike for the price you want to spend, and accept that if you do decide you like riding, you may have a little more tinkering to do in future. It's not such a terrible thing; the really low-maintenance honeymoon on a more expensive bike doesn't last forever anyway.

People get more expensive bikes for a couple reasons - status, gear lust, longevity of components, every now and then because they really do compete and for someone at racing weight, in Cat. 3 and up, some of the performance differences really do matter. But nobody's holding a gun to your head and telling you you have to buy whatever, and as long as everything on your bike functions consistently, it'll have a pretty small effect on your riding.

The shop has to build and sell every bike they have in stock eventually. So don't feel guilty about asking them to build you the ones you're interested in. As an amateur rider, you have the luxury of buying whatever bike you want. So take the time to test ride a couple different ones - they're not all the same - and buy your favorite. It took me a little application of assertiveness and some rides on different bikes to choose my 'cross bike, and I'm very glad I did. While still not my favorite, it's my best-fitting road bike; I think the next size up, which the shop where I bought it put me on initially, would murder my back on race days. Which are murderous enough.


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## uwhuskies (Aug 19, 2011)

PlatyPius said:


> Then look at the Revenio 2.0. Just keep in mind that if you do really get into cycling, it's much more expensive to upgrade a bike than it is to just buy that bike in the first place.


That's exactly what the guy at the shop was talking to me about and made me reconsider the bikes I was looking at and look at these bikes now.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

uwhuskies said:


> Thanks PJ for the advice.
> 
> Andrw, it's not that I can't afford these bikes, it's that when I started doing all my research and everything I was only really wanting to commit $700-800 in case riding didn't work out for me.


As Andrew touches on, staying at or near your original price points, you get very similar (or the same) framesets when dropping down to the lower level bikes in their range. With a decent discount, the Defy 2 would go for around $1k and is Tiagra equipped. Raleigh doesn't list prices on their website, but the Raleigh Revenio 2 is equipped with Sora, so you could inquire on that model. 

When compared to the Felt F85, the F95 ($869 MSRP) uses a _slightly_ heavier grade of alu for the frame (same fork). The advantage here is that it's equipped with Microshift shifters (and a mix of Sora/ Tiagra), so the operation of the shifters resembles the higher level Shimano's (no thumb tab). 

All things considered, I think you have some viable options that get you at least close to your original price point. JMO, but many times when I'm faced with similar quandaries, I stay 'middle ground', which in this case would mean upping your budget to around $1k.

Still, the bottom line is the same. Test ride (bikes in your budget), then decide.


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## uwhuskies (Aug 19, 2011)

Well I haven't had a chance to go back and ride the bikes yet, was planning on it this weekend. But I just got a news letter from the shop saying they are having a labor day sale and all their bikes are 10% off! So I'm pretty stoked about that, will definitely be buying this weekend, I'll post up again when I make the purchase.


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## jeepseahawk (May 30, 2011)

Yea, 10 percent off is good, I always try to get 200 off the 1000-1500 bikes, that seems fair to me if they are 2011 bikes. Just picked up a caad10 and got 200 off, plus a killer deal on some accessories. I have seen that defy 1 going for 1100 at my shop so I think you should be able to grind them to that at least. What I do know is that the bikes really don't have a big margin of profit, the gear does. I have bought all my bikes from the same shop so he usually doesn't fight me hard on the price, I always go for the model about to be replaced with new years coming out.
Also, I was going to buy a caad8 for 799, that was my limit but that caad10 just kept saying buy me please. Honestly, don't think I ever bought within my budget, always bought the upgrade version because my lack of willpower.


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## mjmi11er (Apr 5, 2006)

what about the al-2 nashbar bike? 105 components and it's only $700.


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## PlatyPius (Feb 1, 2009)

mjmi11er said:


> what about the al-2 nashbar bike? 105 components and it's only $700.


If you're just buying it for the components, sure.

Wanna know what my cost is for an identical frame? About $20. Guess how well that's gonna ride....


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## uwhuskies (Aug 19, 2011)

Well I'm happy to report that I bought my first road bike yesterday! I ended up getting the Defy 1 at $1000. I also got a pair of Mavic shoes and some SPD-M540 pedals, along with a few other little things. Total with tax was under $1400 (less than the original price of the Defy before tax!) 

So I'm super stoked I waited till this weekend, saved probably $500 at least. I'm taking her out for the first ride in about 30 minutes, just a short but hilly 20 mile ride. 

Anyone in the Puget Sound area I highly recommend Tacoma Bike. Can't believe how great their customer service is and the amount of time Tony spends with you to make sure the bike fits you before you walk out the door. I will be returning there for all future bike purchases and sending everyone I know there.










Thanks for everyones advice on here, I look forward to learning and sharing much more!


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## Camilo (Jun 23, 2007)

uwhuskies said:


> Thanks PJ for the advice.
> 
> Andrw, it's not that I can't afford these bikes, it's that when I started doing all my research and everything I was only really wanting to commit $700-800 in case riding didn't work out for me.


Stick to your price range. I HATE, absolutely HATE shops that try to get you to bust your budget.

You will be served FINE by a Sora or Tiagra bike. I have two main road bikes - one equipped with top of the line Sram Red and the other equipped with very nice Ultegra. I recently rode 250 miles in a week on a rental equipped with Sora. I was perfectly happy with the functionality and performance of the Sora. It worked flawlessly. The ergonomics are different in that you cannot shift the thumb shifter from the drops, but (a) for most - a huge majority - of recreational cyclists it is simply not an issue and (b) many cyclists prefer the Sora shifting anyway - my wife prefers it over her Tiagra.

Speaking of Tiagra - it is also a perfectly fine group. My wife's bike has it and the quality is fine and the performance is excellent.

Don't let that shop BS you. Stick to your budget and buy whatever bike, color, groupset in that budget seems to be your favorite.

[EDIT]. I posted the above before I read the entire thread - and congratulations on getting a "105" level bike at a discount. I'm sure you'll be very happy with it, and I doubt you'll ever regreat overspending your budget (I never have!).

But the fact remains that the shop got you to spend several hundred dollars more than you originally intended. You got a lot of value for that money, no problem there. But, my point remains that your original budget (or a Labor Day discount of same) would have served you very, very well and by implying that you wouldn't, the shop just was BS'ing you.


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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

Congrats on the new bike!! _Very_ nice specs for the price, and kudo's to your shop for taking the time to get fit right. All in all, I'd say you did very well. 

Enjoy!!


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## sherlock (Aug 6, 2011)

Nice work—that's a great price for a Defy 1. Glad to hear they spent time on fitting it and sorting you out too, that's always the sign of a good shop.


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## uwhuskies (Aug 19, 2011)

Thanks!

This was the first ride i did today on it, down to the train station near my house where I'm hoping I will start to commute to on my bike. Going to the station wasn't bad as the big hill is downhill. Took only 40 minutes for 9.6 miles. Coming back though the "climb" kicked my butt. I was able to make it without stopping, but I had to gear all the way down and just go up slowly. I know the more I ride the easier it will get and faster I'll ride.

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## PJ352 (Dec 5, 2007)

uwhuskies said:


> Thanks!
> 
> This was the first ride i did today on it, down to the train station near my house where I'm hoping I will start to commute to on my bike. Going to the station wasn't bad as the big hill is downhill. Took only 40 minutes for 9.6 miles. Coming back though the "climb" kicked my butt. I was able to make it without stopping, but *I had to gear all the way down and just go up slowly*. I know the more I ride the easier it will get and faster I'll ride.


You'll do fine and as you say, it'll get easier with more saddle time. Just be careful to keep your cadence up on that hill. Saves the knees.


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