# Did I just resolve the whole BB30 bearing wear conundrum?



## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Got a 2011 Tarmac with OSBB (BB30) and the darned thing has been going through bearings like Orson Wells goes through steaks. 

My bearings right now are pretty worn out (only after a grand total of 400 miles!). Last night I noticed I can push the cranks in the BB assembly laterally about 1-2MM with just the pressure of my two fingers. Which means that the only thing holding the whole BB assembly in place is that wavy washer. So under load, even with new bearings, the only thing preventing a massive amount of side load on the bearings is that wavy washer, which of course flexes easily. This leads to bearing destruction in short order. 

Could this be right? Did i just have a eurkea moment? If so, what a terrible design.

And of course, if this is already common knowledge feel free to flame away.


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## reptilezs (Aug 21, 2007)

preload of the bearings is dependent on the crank design. what crank you got?


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

RkFast said:


> Got a 2011 Tarmac with OSBB (BB30) and the darned thing has been going through bearings like Orson Wells goes through steaks.
> 
> My bearings right now are pretty worn out (only after a grand total of 400 miles!). Last night I noticed I can push the cranks in the BB assembly laterally about 1-2MM with just the pressure of my two fingers. Which means that the only thing holding the whole BB assembly in place is that wavy washer. So under load, even with new bearings, the only thing preventing a massive amount of side load on the bearings is that wavy washer, which of course flexes easily. This leads to bearing destruction in short order.
> 
> ...


Think it through - there's not much in the way of sideloads on BB's - at least not if you ride reasonably. It's only during awfully thrashing sprints or completely gassed-out standing climbs that there's any significant sideload on a BB. And when there is a sideload, it's there whether or not the wavy washer is there. It's not 'preventing' anything - it's purpose is to make sure there's always _some_ sideload. That small amount of side load helps the bearings run true, limiting wear.

The problem with BB30 is that for bearings to last and run well, the races need to be perfectly parallel. Press fits (into a frame) aren't terrific for insuring that they stay square and true. The previous-generation BB cups had an arguably better shot, because it's easier to keep the smaller parts in spec. Sure, details matter, and any individual bike might have a perfect BB30 shell. But as part of an entire frame, it's easier for it to be wrong, and simultaneously less likely to be tossed in the scrap bin for being a tiny bit less than perfect.


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## looigi (Nov 24, 2010)

With old cone type bearings, you needed the right amount of axial preload because without it you'd have radial play. With modern cartridge bearing BBs, very little if any axial preload is needed.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

RkFast said:


> Got a 2011 Tarmac with OSBB (BB30) and the darned thing has been going through bearings like Orson Wells goes through steaks.
> 
> My bearings right now are pretty worn out (only after a grand total of 400 miles!). Last night I noticed I can push the cranks in the BB assembly laterally about 1-2MM with just the pressure of my two fingers. Which means that the only thing holding the whole BB assembly in place is that wavy washer. So under load, even with new bearings, the only thing preventing a massive amount of side load on the bearings is that wavy washer, which of course flexes easily. This leads to bearing destruction in short order.
> 
> ...


Nope, it's a fine design, and little different from previous pressed in bearing designs since the '70s.

The wave washer prevents the crank from sliding around without crushing the bearings with unnecessary preload. The weight on the crankarms doesn't translate into bearing sideload.


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## PRB (Jun 15, 2002)

RkFast said:


> Could this be right?


This part certainly is correct.


> what a terrible design


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Kontact said:


> Nope, it's a fine design, and little different from previous pressed in bearing designs since the '70s.
> 
> The wave washer prevents the crank from sliding around without crushing the bearings with unnecessary preload. The weight on the crankarms doesn't translate into bearing sideload.


Thats the thing...as far as I can tell, the wavy washer isnt preventing the cranks from sliding around at all. Two fingers of pressure at the center of the crankarm on the non drive side is all it takes to move the cranks laterally. But with other designs, you set your preload and thats it. Like with Hollowtech...when you put some real torque to the pedals theres no additional force applied to the side of the bearings becuase all play is removed from the system when you install it and then the non drive crankarm is bolted in place. There is no possibility of anything moving around changing the amount of preload.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*info...*

It sounds like something has been installed incorrectly. If you can move the crank from side to side by 1-2mm, at the spindle (not at the pedal end of the crankarm), then the wave washer is not doing it's job of applying a preload to the bearings.

You haven't discovered a flaw in the design. If you had, then thousands of bikes would all have the same problem, but they don't.

The wave washer should not be the only thing keeping the crank from moving side to side. I would expect that the crankarms are made in a manner that should limit the axial movement to less than you've described. A detailed drawing of the cranks would be needed to determine exactly how they are intended to function.

As an example, Campy uses a wave washer with their ultra-torque cranks, but there is also a wire clip that limits the possible side movement to around .25mm.

When in use, the wave washer, on the left side, pushes the spindle to the left and holds the right side bearing tight against the face of the right side cup, exerting a force in the 20 to 60 pound range. If an opposing force tries to move the crank to the right, the wire clip restricts that movement, so an extreme amount of axial load can't occur. Some people have left this clip off, thinking that it was only some sort of safety clip that served no function.

The only other thing that affects the ultra-torque bearing preload is the exact width of the BB shell. A variation of plus or minus .8mm is allowed. If the shell is at the minimum width, then you'd get the minimum preload.

With the BB30 system, the wave washer would function similarly, pushing on the spindle and holding the right side crankarm tight against the ride bearing. If a force is applied that tries to push the crank to the left, then it would require a closely maintained length between the two crankarms to limit the possible movement.

You could have a defective BB shell, or perhaps a defective crank (assuming the installation was all done properly). Be sure that nothing has been left out of the assembly, like a special washer.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

RkFast said:


> Thats the thing...as far as I can tell, the wavy washer isnt preventing the cranks from sliding around at all. Two fingers of pressure at the center of the crankarm on the non drive side is all it takes to move the cranks laterally. But with other designs, you set your preload and thats it. Like with Hollowtech...when you put some real torque to the pedals theres no additional force applied to the side of the bearings becuase all play is removed from the system when you install it and then the non drive crankarm is bolted in place. There is no possibility of anything moving around changing the amount of preload.


First, you don't want preload on bearings that don't have conical races. Headsets and some BBs have cone and race relationship, but BB30 bearings don't have an inside or outside.

Second, pedaling is not going to put any sideload on the spindle. The wave washer is there to limit incidental movement of the spindle, not control pedaling. And it is only a concern in the first place because the front shifting needs the chainrings to always be in the same spot.

BB30 bearings are assembled with the cranks no differently than cartridge bearing hubs. In both cases there is supposed to be no sideload on the bearings (despite the lateral loads on both cranks and wheels). And like BB30, hubs are set loose, not with preload. QR pressure is supposed to use up the last of the play, not load the bearings.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

C-40 said:


> It sounds like something has been installed incorrectly. If you can move the crank from side to side by 1-2mm, at the spindle (not at the pedal end of the crankarm), then the wave washer is not doing it's job of applying a preload to the bearings.
> 
> You haven't discovered a flaw in the design. If you had, then thousands of bikes would all have the same problem, but they don't.
> 
> ...


You've got it wrong. BB30 spindles don't have internal shoulders - they really are free floating. The wave washer helps locate the spindle, but friction between the spindle and the inner races is what really keeps the spindle from moving under load. There is so little clearance between the two that a rubber mallet is recommended for assembly. Once a load is put on the crank there is no way the spindle can move in the bearing.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*well...*

I have no experience with BB30 cranks, but if they don't have anything else to keep them in place, other than a close slip fit with the bearing ID, then it would at least be necessary to firmly place the right crank face against the right inner bearing race, so the wave washer can do it's job properly. If that isn't done, then the wave washer could be totally squashed when the left side fixing bolt is tightened and a gap left at the right side of the crank. That's definitely not what you want. 

You still shouldn't be able to push the left side of the crank 1-2mm, just with finger pressure. The wave washer should exert a force that would requires some serious pushing to make the crank move.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

C-40 said:


> I have no experience with BB30 cranks, but if they don't have anything else to keep them in place, other than a close slip fit with the bearing ID, then it would at least be necessary to firmly place the right crank face against the right inner bearing race, so the wave washer can do it's job properly. If that isn't done, then the wave washer could be totally squashed when the left side fixing bolt is tightened and a gap left at the right side of the crank. That's definitely not what you want.
> 
> You still shouldn't be able to push the left side of the crank 1-2mm, just with finger pressure. The wave washer should exert a force that would requires some serious pushing to make the crank move.


From the FSA BB30 installation manual:
_Try to avoid completely flattening the wave spring washer ⑥. Clearance between non-drive arm and bearing shield 1.5~2.2mm._

Generally, if you pull hard enough on the crank you can compress the wave washer a little, and see it move and pull back. That isn't a single finger's pressure, but it isn't a lot of pressure.

Most all of these 2 piece crank systems have almost nothing really holding the crank laterally. Soft plastic dust seals, or wave washers. There just isn't any force significant enough to matter.

Campy and GXP are the exceptions.


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## C-40 (Feb 4, 2004)

*more....*

The amount of space for the FSA wave washer is about the same as a Campy wave washer, yet you claim that the force is much lower. Ever measured it to back up that claim? At least I've measured the Campy wave washer force. FWIW, it's made of steel that's about .025 inch thick and it's height is about 3mm in the free state.

What I found at the FSA website agrees with my contention that something has been installed incorrectly or the BB shell is not made accurately. FSA supplies shims to adjust the preload tension. It should take some significant force to move the crank from side to side. If little force is required, then then there may be no preloading from the wave washer and the only resistance being felt is the snug fit between the spindle and inner bearing races.

"Install the left crank by precisely engaging the spindle hole of crank to spindle. Thread self-extracting crank bolt into spindle using a torque wrench
and 10mm Allen key. Tighten M25 crank bolt to a torque of 450-550 kgf.cm / 45-55 Nm / 395-485 in.lbs.
Notes: BB 30 Shims ⑦ are for adjusting spindle movement side to side in the bottom bracket; referred to as “Side Play”. If at proper torque there is still side play and the wave spring washer is not compressed at
all, the spacers may be used. The wave spring washer does not have to be completely compressed for proper use but does have to be in contact on both sides by the left arm and left bearing shield. The Spacers are
not required when the BB30 specifications of the frame are correct, but in the market there will be times when the frames are not made to exact specifications."


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## reptilezs (Aug 21, 2007)

im not sure what is going on here but pretty much every bb30/bbright crank that has come through has some sort of preload system. sram wants the wave washer almost flat. rotor and some sram has a turny knob/pinch bolt to take up slack. fsa wants not play when you rock the arms and not flattening the wave washer.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

C-40 said:


> The amount of space for the FSA wave washer is about the same as a Campy wave washer, yet you claim that the force is much lower. Ever measured it to back up that claim? At least I've measured the Campy wave washer force. FWIW, it's made of steel that's about .025 inch thick and it's height is about 3mm in the free state.
> 
> What I found at the FSA website agrees with my contention that something has been installed incorrectly or the BB shell is not made accurately. FSA supplies shims to adjust the preload tension. It should take some significant force to move the crank from side to side. If little force is required, then then there may be no preloading from the wave washer and the only resistance being felt is the snug fit between the spindle and inner bearing races.
> 
> ...


From your quote "if the wave spring washer isn't compressed at all..." Meaning, if it IS compressed, even a little, it's fine.

BB30 uses a 30mm spindle with a very firm fit, and it is aluminum. That means there is much more surface area AND friction (sticktion being the term for how aluminum acts compared to other metals) than on a 24mm steel or Ti spindle. 

There's no need to have a theoretical discussion. I work on this stuff all the time SRAM, Campy, Shimano, FSA, BB30, BBright, etc. If you want to speak knowledgably about BB30, work on one. Extrapolating from mildly similar systems doesn't make a lot of sense.


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Hey guys.....on a whime and based on your feeback I tried to "simulate" what pedal pressure would do. 

So instead of pushing the cranks back and forth laterally at the center, I moved the cranks to the 12/6 o clock position and pushed on the non drive pedal at the six o clock position to more accurately mimick what pedal pressure would do.

Sure enough, the crankset still moved laterally in the assembly which still proves my overall point....the bearings are taking the brunt of the "side" torque which would happen whenever youre riding out of the saddle.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

RkFast said:


> Hey guys.....on a whime and based on your feeback I tried to "simulate" what pedal pressure would do.
> 
> So instead of pushing the cranks back and forth laterally at the center, I moved the cranks to the 12/6 o clock position and pushed on the non drive pedal at the six o clock position to more accurately mimick what pedal pressure would do.
> 
> Sure enough, the crankset still moved laterally in the assembly which still proves my overall point....the bearings are taking the brunt of the "side" torque which would happen whenever youre riding out of the saddle.


You did this with the crank assembled with the wave washer, and you observed the wave washer compressing when you put weight on the pedal?


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Kontact said:


> You did this with the crank assembled with the wave washer, and you observed the wave washer compressing when you put weight on the pedal?


Yessir.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

RkFast said:


> Yessir.


Take the bike back to the shop. Something is grossly out of spec - it sounds like your spindle is undersized or worn in a way that normal use wouldn't cause.


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Kontact said:


> Take the bike back to the shop. Something is grossly out of spec - it sounds like your spindle is undersized or worn in a way that normal use wouldn't cause.


Yeah, thats the plan. 

Thanks!


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## gospastic (Nov 8, 2008)

If all you have on the NDS is the wave washer, then you need some spacers. When you purchase new bearing kits they come with them, at least SRAM ones do. On my NDS side I have:

Bearing shield>spacer>wave washer>NDS crank. I have no lateral play, and the wave washer is not fully compressed.


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## danl1 (Jul 23, 2005)

RkFast said:


> Hey guys.....on a whime and based on your feeback I tried to "simulate" what pedal pressure would do.
> 
> So instead of pushing the cranks back and forth laterally at the center, I moved the cranks to the 12/6 o clock position and pushed on the non drive pedal at the six o clock position to more accurately mimick what pedal pressure would do.
> 
> Sure enough, the crankset still moved laterally in the assembly which still proves my overall point....the bearings are taking the brunt of the "side" torque which would happen whenever youre riding out of the saddle.


OK, but think that through. The wave washer pushes against the race. If instead it weren't there, but the system had a takeup adjustment similar to a Hollowtech BB, the crank would instead do the pushing.

It is as if you are saying that if you push on one end of a spring, the other end doesn't 'feel' anything, because the spring is taking up the force. That is absurd. Any force on a spring is transmitted through the spring to the other end. 

The only way for the washer to 'prevent' sideload is for it not to be there, so that hopefully the crank would stop moving sideways in the gap.


There seems to be one piece of misunderstanding going on here. Even with cartridge bearings, some sideload is desirable. If a bearing is allowed to be completely 'free', the balls rattle around (really, chase random paths, but same-same) in the races as they turn, adding both drag and wear. Bearing preloaders (and a wave washer is one type) work to introduce some sideload, so that the balls are always tight to the races and spin in consistent orbits, minimizing friction and wear, and helping to reduce spindle flexion.

There has been a move to wave washers as preload devices, because too many stupid mechanics try to use the adjustment screws as fixing screws (think of how many times we've seen people asking how many ft-lbs of torque need to be on a headset topcap.) 

All of that's not to say that the OP doesn't likely have something a bit messed up. It very much sounds like he might.


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## cs1 (Sep 16, 2003)

RkFast said:


> Got a 2011 Tarmac with OSBB (BB30) and the darned thing has been going through bearings like Orson Wells goes through steaks.
> 
> My bearings right now are pretty worn out (only after a grand total of 400 miles!). Last night I noticed I can push the cranks in the BB assembly laterally about 1-2MM with just the pressure of my two fingers. Which means that the only thing holding the whole BB assembly in place is that wavy washer. So under load, even with new bearings, the only thing preventing a massive amount of side load on the bearings is that wavy washer, which of course flexes easily. This leads to bearing destruction in short order.
> 
> ...


Never had these problems with a square taper BB/Crank.


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## -dustin (Jan 11, 2009)

There's a lot of kerfluffle in this thread. 

SWorks cranks? SRAM cranks? What cranks are you sporting?

The BB30 bearings in my Sworks Tarmac have about 9k miles on them and are still good. That's with a lot of racing. Stainless bearings, SI "ceramic" shields, Phil grease on the outside of the bearings, and SI cranks with proper spacing.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*nailed it*



PRB said:


> This part certainly is correct.


go to any cx forum and hear the stories of BB30s

my guess is I'll still be riding the same square taper long after BB30 has joined BioPace


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*hey now*



cs1 said:


> Never had these problems with a square taper BB/Crank.


but they're not as (insert marketing hype here)

still running Square Taper on most of my rides
only 2 have early XTR / DA


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

atpjunkie said:


> but they're not as (insert marketing hype here)
> 
> still running Square Taper on most of my rides
> only 2 have early XTR / DA


Had this discussion in the Spesh forum.....Id go back to a threaded BB in a heartbeat. 

Im sure BB30 and all these integrated systems are just fine and dandy for those who swap frames once a year or have a fleet of support cars behind us. For the other 99% (ha!), the maintainence is too much and the system too hard to get right. Give me a good ole threaded BB and the outboard bearing systems which go on easy, are a cinch to get quiet and keep quiet, stiff as hell, and when they do give up the ghost, are a five minute affair to swap out with fresh bearings. 

I think Im gonna go to Zucotti Park and demand the return of threaded BBs.


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

-dustin said:


> There's a lot of kerfluffle in this thread.
> 
> SWorks cranks? SRAM cranks? What cranks are you sporting?
> 
> The BB30 bearings in my Sworks Tarmac have about 9k miles on them and are still good. That's with a lot of racing. Stainless bearings, SI "ceramic" shields, Phil grease on the outside of the bearings, and SI cranks with proper spacing.


Sorry...stock S-Works cranks.


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## LongIslandTom (Apr 20, 2011)

RkFast said:


> Had this discussion in the Spesh forum.....Id go back to a threaded BB in a heartbeat.
> 
> Im sure BB30 and all these integrated systems are just fine and dandy for those who swap frames once a year or have a fleet of support cars behind us. For the other 99% (ha!), the maintainence is too much and the system too hard to get right. Give me a good ole threaded BB and the outboard bearing systems which go on easy, are a cinch to get quiet and keep quiet, stiff as hell, and when they do give up the ghost, are a five minute affair to swap out with fresh bearings.
> 
> I think Im gonna go to Zucotti Park and demand the return of threaded BBs.


Right on! I'm one of those wierdos who actually does his own maintenance, and in my experience the BB30 system is a PITA to do maintenance on, requiring bearing pullers to remove the BB, then you have to remove the seals on the bearings to clean and regrease. A total PITA.

So when I bought my new bike back in March this year, I specifically went for a frame that has a 68mm English-threaded BB shell. I'm using it with a Chris King BB and SRAM Rival GXP crankset. A complete teardown, cleaning, regreasing and reassembly of the BB and crankset takes all of 20 minutes to do.

Call me a bike luddite for refusing to move to one of those new press-fit BB systems, but the way I figure, I'm riding the bike more and visiting the LBS less for servicing.


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## RkFast (Dec 11, 2004)

Well well well....this is interesting:

http://service.specialized.com/coll...t---S-Works-Road-Carbon-Instruction-Guide.pdf

It appears on the latest tech doc for the Specialized S-Works crankset, the wave washer has been replaced with a two conical spacers on the non drive side, one of which you "adjust" to remove the lateral play in the crank!


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

LongIslandTom said:


> Right on! I'm one of those wierdos who actually does his own maintenance, and in my experience the BB30 system is a PITA to do maintenance on, requiring bearing pullers to remove the BB, then you have to remove the seals on the bearings to clean and regrease. A total PITA.
> 
> So when I bought my new bike back in March this year, I specifically went for a frame that has a 68mm English-threaded BB shell. I'm using it with a Chris King BB and SRAM Rival GXP crankset. A complete teardown, cleaning, regreasing and reassembly of the BB and crankset takes all of 20 minutes to do.
> 
> Call me a bike luddite for refusing to move to one of those new press-fit BB systems, but the way I figure, I'm riding the bike more and visiting the LBS less for servicing.


Why would you ever overhaul a cartridge bearing? I'm sure anytime someone tries to treat a cartridge bearing system as loose ball it isn't going too convenient.

There is almost no way of removing a pressed in cartridge bearing without damaging it. I think you are doing the wrong kind of home maintenance.


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## LongIslandTom (Apr 20, 2011)

> Why would you ever overhaul a cartridge bearing? I'm sure anytime someone tries to treat a cartridge bearing system as loose ball it isn't going too convenient.
> 
> There is almost no way of removing a pressed in cartridge bearing without damaging it. I think you are doing the wrong kind of home maintenance.


The thing is, you need special tools to remove or replace those BB30 bearings. (bearing pullers and bike shop presses). Not many DIYers have those tools.

I don't need anything more than a $10 Park Tool outboard BB wrench to change out my 68mm English external bearing BBs. Rather than take my bike to the LBS, I can do this at home in minutes. Which lets me spend more time riding instead of waiting at the LBS for repairs.

This has been a wetter-than-usual year, and I've seen quite a few fellow cyclists in the local club I ride with develop crunchy bearings because of wet rides. (Including BB30s).


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

LongIslandTom said:


> The thing is, you need special tools to remove or replace those BB30 bearings. (bearing pullers and bike shop presses). Not many DIYers have those tools.
> 
> I don't need anything more than a $10 Park Tool outboard BB wrench to change out my 68mm English external bearing BBs. Rather than take my bike to the LBS, I can do this at home in minutes. Which lets me spend more time riding instead of waiting at the LBS for repairs.
> 
> This has been a wetter-than-usual year, and I've seen quite a few fellow cyclists in the local club I ride with develop crunchy bearings because of wet rides. (Including BB30s).


You don't actually need special tools, or expensive tools to press in or escially pop out BB30 bearings, hub bearings or headset races. 

The removal of pressed cartridge bearings is almost always a little destructive - a punch works fine. And it takes very little ingenuity to assemble a basic press from wood, threaded rod, a socket and soft mallet, resin, whatever. All of which cost less than one Park outboard BB tool.


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## LongIslandTom (Apr 20, 2011)

Kontact said:


> You don't actually need special tools, or expensive tools to press in or escially pop out BB30 bearings, hub bearings or headset races.
> 
> The removal of pressed cartridge bearings is almost always a little destructive - a punch works fine. And it takes very little ingenuity to assemble a basic press from wood, threaded rod, a socket and soft mallet, resin, whatever. All of which cost less than one Park outboard BB tool.


As I said, I can take off or put on a BB in minutes with just one outboard BB tool, without any destruction whatsoever. I would not have to scrounge around for a mallet, punch, socket, wood, threaded rod, whatever.

Simpler, faster, and less destructive is better in my book.

No thanks. I will stick with the $10 Park outboard BB tool.


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

LongIslandTom said:


> As I said, I can take off or put on a BB in minutes with just one outboard BB tool, without any destruction whatsoever. I would not have to scrounge around for a mallet, punch, socket, wood, threaded rod, whatever.
> 
> Simpler, faster, and less destructive is better in my book.
> 
> No thanks. I will stick with the $10 Park outboard BB tool.


Why would you remove a perfectly good cartridge bearing? Oh, right, so you can unnecessarily "overhaul" it. Do you overhaul external BBs after you remove them.

Look, do whatever you want, but don't create complex and slightly ridiculous scenerios to bolster your dislike of something. Here's how you use a pressed in BB system:

1. Install with basic press and allen wrenches.
2. Use for many miles until bearings are shot.
3. Knock out worn-out bearings with a punch.
4. Repeat.

Press or BB tool. Whichever floats your boat, but one is not a labor saver over the other. 

I do these all the time at the shop. I really don't see a major difference in labor doing either.


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## LongIslandTom (Apr 20, 2011)

Kontact said:


> ... unnecessarily "overhaul" ... complex and slightly ridiculous scenerios ....


Again, as I mentioned earlier, I've seen a few fellow cyclists in the local club I ride with develop crunchy bearings because of wet rides. (Including BB30s).

Not sure why crunchy bearings would be a "complex and slightly ridiculous scenario" to anyone, or that fixing it would be an "unnecessary overhaul." Oh, right, unless you must think crunchy bearings are still "perfectly good."

I don't care for the extra tools necessary to work with press-in BBs. A 3-year-old can tell what's simpler: one outboard BB tool, or your "punch, mallet, socket, block of wood, threaded rod" ensemble. You will never convince any sane person that 5 items is simpler than 1 wrench. Sorry.

For those who have success with their press-fit BB systems, if it works for you, great. But threaded BBs works very well for me, and I like the simplicity, so I'm sticking to it.


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## ukbloke (Sep 1, 2007)

Kontact said:


> Why would you remove a perfectly good cartridge bearing?


To add loctite to stop it from creaking?


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## Kontact (Apr 1, 2011)

LongIslandTom said:


> Again, as I mentioned earlier, I've seen a few fellow cyclists in the local club I ride with develop crunchy bearings because of wet rides. (Including BB30s).
> 
> Not sure why crunchy bearings would be a "complex and slightly ridiculous scenario" to anyone, or that fixing it would be an "unnecessary overhaul." Oh, right, unless you must think crunchy bearings are still "perfectly good."
> 
> ...


I'm not trying to convince you to switch to BB30, and I'm certainly not going to convince you of anything if you aren't following my posts: That isn't a 5 item list of what's needed, that is a list of all the possible tools you COULD use, not have to use all together.

You can press in bearings with a correctly sized socket and a mallet.

You can press in bearings with a block of wood and threaded rod.

You can press in bearings with a press.

You can press in bearings with a bench vice.

Etc.



Cartridge bearings are not normally considered serviceable when "crunchy". But BB30 cartridge bearing seals are accessible without removing them from the frame. You just remove the cranks and dust covers and the seals are right there. This is the recommended procedure for ceramic outboard and pressed in bearings.

You don't remove properly installed cartridge bearings.


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## Midwest Playa (Sep 12, 2008)

I have a 2011 SL3 and wheit wasn first assembled they accidentally installed the wrong plastic Teflon cups where the bearings sit and I was having problems left and right with not only wearing out the bearings after a few rides but also my crank set had a lot of play. After switching to another crank that's then the head mechanic realized they had installed the wrong couplers. Have the mechanic check that its hard to detect because the ones for the mountain bikes will fit but its the width not the diameter even with the wafer spring gasket they could not torque it properly.


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## rbart4506 (Aug 4, 2004)

ukbloke said:


> To add loctite to stop it from creaking?


No, that's what you do to a BB30 frame 

Honestly, every bike I hear creaking on a ride is a BB30 frame....Then again most frames are BB30 now...

All i know is every bike that is currently in our household (8 total) use threaded BB's and not once have I had a creaking issue that was BB related and not once have I replaced a worn out BB, and we ride the bikes!

I will fight the move to BB30 as a long as I can!


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## Agent319 (Jul 12, 2012)

I have a 1981 Klein with pressed cartridge bearings that have never been changed. They roll smooth as butter. My 1993 Cannondale R700 has a threaded square tapered BB. It's not as smooth as the Klein even after a relube. But I definetly could see that having to remove and replace that pressed cartridge could remove some material on that BB shell if done on a regular basis.


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## cycletechuk (Dec 20, 2013)

Many BB30 have lateral play and this is taken up by the wavy washer 1.5 - 2.2 mm. But some bikes have more movement. FSA recommend .5mm plastic shims (ms 188) between bearing cover and wavy washer to remove exes play


View video:- Installation and Mainteinance of FSA BB30 Road Crankset - FULL SPEED AHEAD VIDEO CHANNEL


*BB30 Notes:*
Specialized have come up with using adjustable conical spacers. 
*Do not face or ream bottom bracket shell! This can possibly prevent proper installation of the crank. *


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