# allez upgrade from sora to 105



## jeeper006 (May 10, 2010)

2010 Allez Compact Sport

got a question guys


Been doing alot of riding and have been having a few adjustment problems with my sora shifters and basic der. adjustments. However i got aggravated and was hellbent on getting a Tarmac or even the top end allez, then i realized my recreational riding isn't really worth that much money

however, im wondering if its worth upgrading to 105 shifters and FD and RD. 
i'd like to shave a little weight off the bike....

I also thought about upgrading the wheelset. dont know what my stock wheels weigh but i imagin they are a little sluggish.

I've wondered about the Neuvation wheels, anyone experience????

P.S. im a big boy at 225, but im slowly but surely losing weight, so i figured i might as well make my bike lose a little weight too :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## specialized2k10 (Jun 26, 2010)

I have the same bike as you but i upgraded to SRAM force. No regrets. I had issues with my der. as well. The shop was never able to figure out the problem. Somehow the problem went away with SRAM components.


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## jeeper006 (May 10, 2010)

do u mind giving me few more details, what all did you have to upgrade? im thinking of switching to 10speed, so i know i'll have to change cassette and will prob do chain as well.


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## specialized2k10 (Jun 26, 2010)

If you go up to 105 you need to pretty much change everything. You could go with a tiagra fd to save some money. You will need a 10 speed cassette, longer chain. if you have a triple crank you'll need a double or compact.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Actually not a particularly difficult change. You need the shifters to match the number of chain rings and number of cogs. So you'll need a new cassette while you're at it.

I did something similar a few years ago - 9-speed 105 to 10-speed Ultegra.

Bear in mind that it's not any easier to tune 105, and it's probably going to be a little more sensitive to issues like crappy housings.


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

Wheels will save you more weight, and money. I got a pair of Shimano RS-80s for under $400 and shaved about a pound.


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## jeeper006 (May 10, 2010)

RJP this may be a noobish question, but how noticeable is shaving a pound off the bike?? i guess it would probably make more sense to go with the wheel upgrade as i can move them to whatever bike i may get in the future. 

Do you think new housings and cables would make things a little smoother. My allez only has maybe 5-600 miles on it, and is kept inside a storage shop. However it is a year old, so maybe i'll change cables and get some new housings to try and liven her up again.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

If your shifting was smooth and crisp when it was new, with 5-600 miles, it's probably just cable stretch. Actually a little bit of a misnomer - while they do stretch, a little, most of what's happening is that housings compress a little and bed into the ferrules, which bed into the cable stops.

There's a trick for getting some insight into the condition of the housings for the rear derailleur. Turning the crank, shift the bike into the largest cog. Then, without turning the crank, click the little release thing a bunch of times so the shifter cable relaxes. You can now take the housings out of the stops without removing the shifter cable. The housings should slide up and down the cable smoothly. Sometimes, OEM housings totally suck. So it wouldn't be a surprise if new ones made a big improvement. You can buy a premade set, get your LBS to cut and finish a set, or buy a length of housing and some ferrules and do it yourself. If you do it yourself, you need to do a really good job finishing the end.

http://sheldonbrown.com/cables.html#cutting


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## jeeper006 (May 10, 2010)

AndrwSwitch said:


> If your shifting was smooth and crisp when it was new, with 5-600 miles, it's probably just cable stretch. Actually a little bit of a misnomer - while they do stretch, a little, most of what's happening is that housings compress a little and bed into the ferrules, which bed into the cable stops.
> 
> There's a trick for getting some insight into the condition of the housings for the rear derailleur. Turning the crank, shift the bike into the largest cog. Then, without turning the crank, click the little release thing a bunch of times so the shifter cable relaxes. You can now take the housings out of the stops without removing the shifter cable. The housings should slide up and down the cable smoothly. Sometimes, OEM housings totally suck. So it wouldn't be a surprise if new ones made a big improvement. You can buy a premade set, get your LBS to cut and finish a set, or buy a length of housing and some ferrules and do it yourself. If you do it yourself, you need to do a really good job finishing the end.
> 
> http://sheldonbrown.com/cables.html#cutting


Thanks, i'll certainly give it a try this afternoon. My main problem is the FD. I replaced the cable the other day and adjusted everything nice, but it sounds like its going to snap my chain off everytime i shift from big front gear to littlefront gear. Shifting is hard up front for some reason. after an hour of tweaking FD and barrel adjuster i finally just gave up.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Please tell me you're letting up on the pedals a little when you shift. 

If it shifts consistently, I doubt that it's a tuning issue. I'm a little confused by your comment - are you saying it's difficult for you to accomplish the shift, or that it's difficult for you to tune it so it's silent?


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## seemana (Jul 1, 2009)

jeeper006 said:


> I also thought about upgrading the wheelset. dont know what my stock wheels weigh but i imagin they are a little sluggish.
> 
> I've wondered about the Neuvation wheels, anyone experience????



This is my 3rd season on the Neuvation M28x wheelset. No complaints from me. Reasonably light (1750 grams) and only $229 right now. In three seasons, they haven't had to be trued yet. I go between 180 - 190.

He's got lighter wheels, but I have no experience with them. Shoot him an email with any questions...he's always responded for me.


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

jeeper006 said:


> RJP this may be a noobish question, but how noticeable is shaving a pound off the bike?? i guess it would probably make more sense to go with the wheel upgrade as i can move them to whatever bike i may get in the future.


Wheel weight - especially rims/tires - is probably the best weight you can trim because it is "rotational weight" so you are not only "carrying" it with you up hills, but also constantly moving it at all times.

Further, a pound is a ton of weight (no pun intended) when you look at what people will spend to shave a few dozen grams off a water bottle cage or seatpost.


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## jeeper006 (May 10, 2010)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Please tell me you're letting up on the pedals a little when you shift.
> 
> If it shifts consistently, I doubt that it's a tuning issue. I'm a little confused by your comment - are you saying it's difficult for you to accomplish the shift, or that it's difficult for you to tune it so it's silent?



o yah, im letting off the pedals when i shift.

When i shift from the 53- 34 Front ring, it always slams down into the lower gear. I have spent countless amounts of time trying to tune the FD so that shifting would be smooth, but cant seem to tune the front shifts. I even replaced my front shifter cable the other day, but still not smooth, the FD just slams from big ring to small ring, im worried eventully it may affect my chain or maybe even a chainring tooth or two.

Plus i just really hate the Sora STI design with the thumb shift, but not sure if i'll actually be paying the money to replace them. have a feeling the smarter decision would be wheels.


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*False notions*



RJP Diver said:


> Wheel weight - especially rims/tires - is probably the best weight you can trim because it is "rotational weight" so you are not only "carrying" it with you up hills, but also constantly moving it at all times.
> 
> Further, a pound is a ton of weight (no pun intended) when you look at what people will spend to shave a few dozen grams off a water bottle cage or seatpost.


Except when accelerating or coasting, it makes NO difference where the weight is on the bike or rider. Lighter wheels accelerate slightly quicker and slow down slightly faster. They take less energy to spin up and they give back less energy when coasting to slow down. Once a wheel is up to speed, it makes no difference whether that same weight is elsewhere on the bike or on the rider.

A pound weight savings means 0.09 mph (0.14 km/hr) faster for a 150 lb (68 kg) rider putting out 200 watts on a 6% grade. That would be 37 seconds faster for an hour of climbing. Whether that is a huge difference is up to the rider to decide. The fact that people will spend large sums to shave grams does not in any way influence the actual physics involved.


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## seemana (Jul 1, 2009)

FYI...if you are considering the Neuvation wheels, check this out. Deal ends tomorrow at noon...$199 for the M28X wheelset. Hard to beat that.


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## Rob (Mar 3, 2004)

I'll admit to not being an expert here but if it wasn't a misprint and you really are running a 53/34, then that's a really big difference in teeth for two front chainrings. 53/39 or 50/34 is much more common. With that big a difference in the size of the two front rings, I wonder if it could ever be perfectly smooth. Is the poor shifting a new thing or has it always been clunky?


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## RJP Diver (Jul 2, 2010)

Rob said:


> I'll admit to not being an expert here but if it wasn't a misprint and you really are running a 53/34, then that's a really big difference in teeth for two front chainrings. 53/39 or 50/34 is much more common.


Must have been a typo by OP. Sora Compact is a standard 50/34 configuration.


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## jeeper006 (May 10, 2010)

RJP Diver said:


> Must have been a typo by OP. Sora Compact is a standard 50/34 configuration.


my apologies on the typo, its a sora compact. I just want smooth shifting, guess its time to bring it to the LBS and give them the $8 to fine tune the Fd

Kerry Irons brings up a good point about the wheels i guess. Before i spend money on wheels i'd like to know im going to notice a difference, however i ride in Central Louisiana so our roads are straight as a board. It gets quite windy on the open back roads, but they are still flat as can be.

So does that basically mean that the recreational flat rider will inherently see no difference at all in a wheel upgrade, such as the Nuevation M28s??????


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Different wheels look different. You may feel a difference in handling.

The effect on your time on a measured stretch of road will most likely be too small to be measured with any certainty.


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## jeeper006 (May 10, 2010)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Different wheels look different. You may feel a difference in handling.
> 
> The effect on your time on a measured stretch of road will most likely be too small to be measured with any certainty.



So basically, for the recreational rider who rides straight flat roads, and will never race, a 500dollar wheelset would be somewhat pointless???


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## ernestrome (Sep 25, 2008)

Everything is pointless! But you want to spend some money on it so here are my thoughts.

First priorities for me.
Are your tyres, brakes, saddle, bars/bar tape, pedals and shifters working well? These are the things you feel and that affect your safety (first two particularly) and comfort. They must work well.

Are you checking chain wear and have a spare chain ready to replace before 0.5% wear thereby extending the life of other more expensive drivetrain parts? Repeat after me, I will not waste money on bling whilst neglecting basic maintenance!

Is the bike fitting you well?

You have said shifters are not working well. Before changing make sure you have fully lubricated and adjusted them following an online guide like Parks. I do not fully trust bike shops to do this for me, as I am prepared to take more time than they are doing it just right. If you are still not happy their performance after working on them why not change to 105? I don't see why your derailleurs would need replaced. 

For speed deeper more aero wheels will help more than lighter ones. OTOH if you want to drop some weight wheels are the top choice place to do so.


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## Slow Ride (Jul 10, 2008)

The Sora shifters just might weigh less than 105. 8 and 9 speed chains generally will last longer than 10. Wheels are the best way to change the feel of a bike, and usually for the better.


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## seemana (Jul 1, 2009)

jeeper006 said:


> So basically, for the recreational rider who rides straight flat roads, and will never race, a 500dollar wheelset would be somewhat pointless???


FWIW....I have an older Specialized Allez that had an Alex wheelset on it. When I switched to the Neuvation M28X, I felt a definite difference. Not so much in the ride comfort, but in the rolling resistance. Average speeds went up slightly and most noticeably, speed on descents went up considerably. I may be wrong, but I attributed it to a higher quality hub & bearings and the aero profile. As always, it's just my opinion. But the little extra speed and the fact that the wheelset is considerably more reliable (ie it actually stays true) was well worth the $250 I paid at the time. And now that you can get them for under $200 if you watch for a sale, I'd absolutely consider that if you're looking to make some changes to the wheelset.


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## jeeper006 (May 10, 2010)

seemana said:


> FWIW....I have an older Specialized Allez that had an Alex wheelset on it. When I switched to the Neuvation M28X, I felt a definite difference. Not so much in the ride comfort, but in the rolling resistance. Average speeds went up slightly and most noticeably, speed on descents went up considerably. I may be wrong, but I attributed it to a higher quality hub & bearings and the aero profile. As always, it's just my opinion. But the little extra speed and the fact that the wheelset is considerably more reliable (ie it actually stays true) was well worth the $250 I paid at the time. And now that you can get them for under $200 if you watch for a sale, I'd absolutely consider that if you're looking to make some changes to the wheelset.




Think im gonna pull the trigger on a set of M28Xs. I weight about 220, and according to the Nuevation website they are rated for 250pounds, so im gonna give them a try. Mainly because of the price, seems hard not to buy them.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I wouldn't say $500 wheels are pointless for those of us not competing, or competing below Cat. 3. You just have to know what you're getting, and be getting something that will actually have some benefits.

This site's favorite budget aftermarket training wheelset is hand built Mavic Open Pros laced to Shimano Ultegra hubs with DT Competition spokes. The Mavic Open Pro is a well-regarded rim, although there are a couple of others that give it a real run for its money. Their own CXP 33 is cheaper and supposedly competitive on real world weight. The DT RR 415 and 465 have been getting a lot of buzz lately. (The 465 and 415 are near-identical, I think, but the 465 is eyeleted, increasing wear life.) The spokes have a little more stretch than straight-gauge spokes, and distribute stress better, making them another step toward the holy grail - lighter and stronger. Finally, the hubs are a conservative style, but, if cared for, last a very long time.

If you've got more to spend, the hubs are a popular place to do it. I've had my Shimano 105 hubs for a decade, although I can't say much about mileage. They've required the occasional rebuild and I'm on my second freehub. This is typical of this style of hub. The newer sealed bearing hubs offered by other companies may last longer between maintenance intervals, are more forgiving of bad maintenance habits, and many people prefer swapping sealed bearings to cleaning and repacking cup and cone bearings.

There's a bit of a movement toward wider road rims lately. The idea is to increase the air volume in the tire, allowing a little less pressure. Or something like that. People say they make the ride more comfortable.

I would, and have, shy away from factory wheels with a lot of proprietary parts. It's one thing if they're so cheap I can treat them as disposable, but if I'm going to spend money it takes me time and effort to earn on a wheel, I'd like to get a long service life from it.

This would be my $500 wheel. (Well, a bit less, but whatever.)
http://www.bicyclewheelwarehouse.co...-less/mavic-open-pro-ultegra-6700/prod_4.html
Handmade, out of parts stocked by most bike shops.

My nicer road bike has Velocity Aeroheads on Shimano 105 hubs with straight-gauge spokes. The hubs are over ten years old, but I replaced the rims earlier this summer - the Aerohead turns out to have the same ERD as the old rim, which is no longer produced; it was easier for me to source new Aeroheads than NOS direct replacements. They actually came with the bike, but it was a little more expensive bike to begin with. But that kind of longevity is what I'd like to see from my non-wear components.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

specialized2k10 said:


> I have the same bike as you but i upgraded to SRAM force. No regrets. I had issues with my der. as well. The shop was never able to figure out the problem. Somehow the problem went away with SRAM components.


Curious. I have had shifting issues with the Sora FD on my Secteur. Three times now. Slightly different but all needed adjustments. Works great after for awhile then it's off again. 

LBS just kind of fixes it but can't figure out why. 

I have thought of trying SRAM but not sure I want to spend that much to replace everything on a base bike?


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

My experience with the derailleurs on the cheap MTB I rode in college was that they'd lose their turn easily. I wonder if that's what's going on.

FWIW, I basically leave my Tiagra and higher components untouched once I've gotten them working, except for some adjustments to cable tension.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

AndrwSwitch said:


> My experience with the derailleurs on the cheap MTB I rode in college was that they'd lose their turn easily. I wonder if that's what's going on.
> 
> FWIW, I basically leave my Tiagra and higher components untouched once I've gotten them working, except for some adjustments to cable tension.


Not sure what "lose a turn" means? The FD was just off and the chain stay got in the way of shifting to the little wheel unless I went to fully granny gear. At least that was last weeks issue. 

Another time it just dropped. Well it did that too but I've learned how to get it back on. Once it would just not shift. Again. May have been the sam issue but I've learned how to cope?

FWIW I don't touch the derailur. I'm not that mechanical.


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

I'm not sure what "lose a turn" means either. I meant to write "lose their tune."

Cycling is a gear sport. While I don't think everyone needs to be mechanical enough to build a bike from the ground up, build wheels, repack bearings, etc., I think every cyclist should know how to adjust a bike's drivetrain, size, mount, and fix chains, and change a flat. Now that messing with the stem means messing with the preload on a headset, that's another task people should know how to do.

Check out parktool.com for great pictorial instructions for almost every maintenance task on a bike.


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## NJBiker72 (Jul 9, 2011)

I'll have to check that out. I have heard that tuning a Front Derailur is not something for novices.


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## jeeper006 (May 10, 2010)

i've even considered switching to 10 speed. Either Sram Apex, or shimano 105.

I actually found a new Ultegra group with shifters,cables,cassette, FD,RD, and chain for $350 i believe on Ebay. Sounds a little too good to be true, but i may give it a whirl anyways. 
Also about to buy a set of Neuvation M28s.


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## ryedog13 (Jul 31, 2011)

hi guys, i just need some advice. would this crankset fit my 1990s allez sport and fit with shimano deraileur and shifters? 


FSA Vero Road Bike Chainset 52/42 170mm Black

please help. thanks


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## AndrwSwitch (May 28, 2009)

Yes.

Your Allez probably already has a better crankset though.

Looks like you'll have to revisit this issue when your suspension expires. Maybe one thread will be sufficient.


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