# crit wheels- clincher or tubular?



## Mattinvt (Sep 15, 2006)

I'm getting into crit racing and want to get a set of deep section carbon wheels for crits and rolling road races. So, how deep and clincher or tubular? Seems there's a heary debate about clinchers offering less rolling resistance vs tubulars being lighter with better traction. I'm 190 lbs and a sprinter-type. Any feedback is appreciated.


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## BeeCharmer (Apr 30, 2003)

I'm a big sprinter type as well. If you're prepared to get involved with your bicycle more and get into the process of gluing, I think tubulars are the way to go. I don't think the rolling resistance argument is very important. I think the handling is. A high quality tubular corners better than a high quality clincher. Check out the tire profile: a tubie is round and a clincher is somewhat oval. In a tight turn, round feels much better.

So tubular. But... I wouldn't drop big bucks on deep section carbon rims for crit racing. I would suggest a rim like the Velocity Deep V Fusion or similar. They don't flex and are cheap to replace when you trash one in a crash. Not 'if' you trash one, 'when' you trash one. Trashing a 500.00 rim is a very painful experience, and you may need to experience that for yourself. Losing a 40.00 rim isn't so bad. My two cents.

chris


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## Kram (Jan 28, 2004)

That's why I've been racing on Neuvations. Lite, aero enough, and I ain't gonna cry when they're pretzeled. I just put a set of Tufo tubie clinchers on them. So far, I'm pretty happy with them. Good handling and you can pump them up to a bajillion psi if you so desire...


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## filtersweep (Feb 4, 2004)

If you are just getting into crits and rolling road races, do you really want to drop that kind of money on carbon wheels at this point? A second wheelset is definitely a great idea so you have fresh tires for race day. 

What are you ultimately trying to accomplish? 



Mattinvt said:


> I'm getting into crit racing and want to get a set of deep section carbon wheels for crits and rolling road races. So, how deep and clincher or tubular? Seems there's a heary debate about clinchers offering less rolling resistance vs tubulars being lighter with better traction. I'm 190 lbs and a sprinter-type. Any feedback is appreciated.


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## MR_GRUMPY (Aug 21, 2002)

You mention that you're just getting into crit racing. This must mean that you are a cat 5. A Cat 5 has no reason to use anything fancier than a Mavic reflex sew up rim, 32 hole. Once you move up to Cat 2 (maybe Cat 3), you can indulge yourself.


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## kiwisimon (Oct 30, 2002)

If you have the money just copy the pros.
what would Levi ride?


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## Kerry Irons (Feb 25, 2002)

*Proper investment*



Mattinvt said:


> I'm getting into crit racing and want to get a set of deep section carbon wheels for crits and rolling road races. So, how deep and clincher or tubular? Seems there's a heary debate about clinchers offering less rolling resistance vs tubulars being lighter with better traction. I'm 190 lbs and a sprinter-type. Any feedback is appreciated.


If you're just getting into racing, it might make sense to see how your placings work out before making any investments at all. If you're able to stay with the pack and place consistently in the to 10, then some deep section wheels might move you up a few spots. No equipment will get you into the top spots if you don't have the engine & the skills. In reality, crit racing is a lot more about short term bursts of power, saving energy, and good tactics for the sprints/breaks. Wheels are a fair ways down on the list of success factors (unlike in a time trial).


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## Circles (Aug 3, 2005)

Make sure you like crits. Some people realize that this type of racing is for the birds. I would focus my energy on getting educated on race tactics, strategy and fitness before dropping big $$$ on wheels. Tubular vs. clincher should be the least of your concerns.


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## bill (Feb 5, 2004)

I rode on clinchers for years, and finally thought I'd become a compleat rider and get some Zipp 303 tubulars. They are great wheels, no question, but is the tubular version that much better than clincher to be worth the hassle? Hmm.

I know some people ride tubulars all of the time, citing their ability to evoke religious experiences. I haven't really seen it, myself.

Yes, pros ride tubulars. Pros also have little elfs who work all night re-gluing the damn things, cursing the whole time. And they're good at it. You won't be. Tubulars are messy and finicky to get on. Once they're on, usually you're set for a while, but still.

I tend to ride them only on race day or very race-like rides where, if I flat, my ride is over.

The other side of this is that I'm guessing you won't be convinced that you have given yourself or tubulars a fair shake until you try them yourself. If you have the bucks and don't mind the hassle, by all means give them a go.


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## OldEndicottHiway (Jul 16, 2007)

Bill! Learning the art of gluing _is_ a wondrous thing! I always got a deep sense of satisfaction getting those on. Once you get the system down, it's easy as pie. I wouldn't however, recommend the OP race on them until he is sure he knows how to glue properly. 

And, they're much less of a hassle to change when you get a flat...simply rip the old tube off, stretch the new tube on (usually don't even need wedges) and off you go (OK so you have to be a bit careful not to roll your tire without the glue on  ) And, no need to worry about pinching, or fixing the tire if your tire was sliced clean thru. 

I've ridden both with good equipment, and yes, I love tubulars. Absolutely gorgeous ride, they are. My next wheelset will be tubulars because I miss that "feel".

But, everyone knows what feels good to them I suppose.


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## ineff (Mar 1, 2006)

I'd say stick with clinchers for now. 
as has been stated above, learn how to ride first. 
I've ridin 55+ races this year on a pair of campy nutrons. at least 40 of which where crits. the wheels have been sweet and I don't worry about going down.


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## Supersonic (Aug 31, 2005)

*campy neutrons for crits?*

You race crits on campy neutrons?? I thought those wheels were mainly for climbing given the lower spoke count. I have a set of 06 Neutrons that I love for road races and climbing but have yet to use them in a crit for fear that they will get out of true or not hold up to the kind of wear & tear a crit (can) take on wheels. I usually race Open Pros or my velomax Orions for crits but have often wondered how Neutrons would be....

Maybe I should just give them a try, huh?


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## IKnowYouRider (Jul 1, 2003)

*My $.02*

Having just glued on my first tubulars last night...yes it is a pain but no worse than any other bike maintenance. I was on the fence regarding deep carbon tubulars vs. clinchers but after a recent crit where I saw 2 instances of guys flatting in corners (it was a really nasty course) and immediately have their clinchers come of the rim, I figured tubulars were the way to go...

wayne


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## ewitz (Sep 11, 2002)

I rode this years crit season on a set of 2006 Reynolds Stratus Carbon Clinchers.

I also used these as my primary training wheel and only broke out the Ksyriums for rainy days. For a full carbon wheel, or any wheel for that matter, they were very low maintenance. 

You can have it both ways, full carbon and clincher. For 2008 many more carbon wheel manufactuers will be offering a full carbon clincher.


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## waterloo (Nov 8, 2005)

ewitz said:


> You can have it both ways, full carbon and clincher. For 2008 many more carbon wheel manufactuers will be offering a full carbon clincher.


Yeah, pick up the new Lightweight clinchers :thumbsup:


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## bahueh (May 11, 2004)

*some of the worst crit wrecks I've seen..*

involved peeling a tubie off a rim....scary. amateur glue jobs, amateur wheel handling = big hospital bills. no thanks. performance difference? I'm typically too damn winded to care after 40 minutes...I've ridden both, haven't seen it, sorry.
bikes only go as fast as your legs make them go...crit cornering is an art that has little to do with your gear..


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## ilan (Nov 27, 2006)

Mattinvt said:


> I'm getting into crit racing and want to get a set of deep section carbon wheels for crits and rolling road races. So, how deep and clincher or tubular? Seems there's a heary debate about clinchers offering less rolling resistance vs tubulars being lighter with better traction. I'm 190 lbs and a sprinter-type. Any feedback is appreciated.


Here are some good reasons to get tubulars for you:

1. You need race wheels anyway and almost all tubular setups will be lighter and perform better than most expensive high end clincher setups.

2. In a criterium you will be able to use your spare training wheel if you flat by going to the pit area on your free lap. 

3. If you like criterium racing you should also eventually ride the track where tubulars are used exclusively in racing and you will be able to use the same front wheel for road and track racing. 

4. You may also find out that you are good at time trials where medium profile rims and tubulars will help you a lot. 

5. You can use your tubular wheels in cyclocross, which will give you an advantage there as well. 

Reasons not to use tubulars:

1. If you fail to glue them correctly your tire may roll off (hopefully during pre-race inspection) injuring yourself and others. 

2. You may have more confidence in high speed cornering when riding clinchers if you don't have confidence on your gluing technique, e.g., at the bottom of a long winding descent where you have used the brakes a lot possibly melting the glue. 

3. If you flat in a road race and don't have support, you will have to use a spare tire which means not racing to the end (due to tire not glued to rim).

4. You can use clincher race wheels as spare training wheels. There are still amateurs who train on tubulars but they are becoming quite rare.

5. Tubulars are expensive in terms of getting flats. 

So, I would recommend tubulars for time trials, possibly for criteriums, and would not recommend them for road races. 

I don't see the need for deep section rims (>50mm) unless you plan to do a lot of time trials. 

-ilan


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## BeeCharmer (Apr 30, 2003)

Well said! Though I am one of those rare riders that trains and races on tubulars. I'm a fanatic about my bike and love maintaining it, though. Also spent 10 years working in a bike shop, which helps with the confidence factor in gluing. 

I think another consideration is where you are riding. Where I live, the only flat threat on the road is rock from the edge and the occasional cowpie. When I was riding in France last winter, there was glass everywhere and I ended up patching tires a night or two each week. Clinchers would have been preferable there just the ease of flat repair. Here in Iowa, not an issue.


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## Gnarly 928 (Nov 19, 2005)

Dunno if this happens often, but at a recent NCR race nearby, with a pretty technical fast hard corner in the crit, I saw 3 clinchers blow off rims, explosivly..Dumping the riders onto the pavment and into the curb. Not pretty...

I've done about 6 crits myself this season and not seen this happen elsewhere, so it may have just been that particular corner. Me, I use tubulars. I still have some clinchers, but I keep them as backup. I get very few flats since I switched over to tubies, but I ride on country roads without much glass..

Aero deep rims probably are less important in a crit..

Don Hanson


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## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

BeeCharmer said:


> I'm a big sprinter type as well. If you're prepared to get involved with your bicycle more and get into the process of gluing, I think tubulars are the way to go. I don't think the rolling resistance argument is very important. I think the handling is. A high quality tubular corners better than a high quality clincher. Check out the tire profile: a tubie is round and a clincher is somewhat oval. In a tight turn, round feels much better.
> 
> So tubular. But... I wouldn't drop big bucks on deep section carbon rims for crit racing. I would suggest a rim like the Velocity Deep V Fusion or similar. They don't flex and are cheap to replace when you trash one in a crash. Not 'if' you trash one, 'when' you trash one. Trashing a 500.00 rim is a very painful experience, and you may need to experience that for yourself. Losing a 40.00 rim isn't so bad. My two cents.
> 
> chris


I inherited a pair of trashed 440s from a buddy. Went down in the Oceanside Crit and broke his wrist. $200/ea for replacement rims is tough to swallow!

For me, on short/turny courses a pair of GL330s and some light tires feels better when you have short, sharp accelerations. To be sure, the 404s and/or deep section rims are faster in a straight line. Pick yer wheels to suit the course: long sweepers? Run the deep section wheels (Shamals, Cosmics, et al) for tight courses run lighter weight rims/tires (GL330s, Velocity Escapes et al) Courses for horses and all.

Goes back to the old saying: if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

M


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## MShaw (Jun 7, 2003)

MR_GRUMPY said:


> You mention that you're just getting into crit racing. This must mean that you are a cat 5. A Cat 5 has no reason to use anything fancier than a Mavic reflex sew up rim, 32 hole. Once you move up to Cat 2 (maybe Cat 3), you can indulge yourself.


+1

IF/when you find that the equipment is holding you back, THEN its time to upgrade. Personally, I found that point racing at the track. THEN I got the 404s. Still didn't help me win against former gold-medal winners and masters national champions, but I didn't get dropped as fast either. Part of it was fitness (a LARGE part of it was fitness!) and part was training (see above) the legs to spin that fast and part of it (the smallest) was equipment. 

HTH

M


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## buzban (Feb 21, 2005)

*Don't overdo the wheels...*



Circles said:


> Make sure you like crits. Some people realize that this type of racing is for the birds. I would focus my energy on getting educated on race tactics, strategy and fitness before dropping big $$$ on wheels. Tubular vs. clincher should be the least of your concerns.


I agree with this post (except for the birds portion...crits are for big guys like me).... Buy a set of wheels that are smooth, work well, are reliable, and easy to service. Tubulars are probably where you'll end up, but if you're really just starting out, don't worry so much about wheels. Buy a reasonably-priced set of clinchers and race your heart out. If the wheels are a little heavy or a little clunky, you'll be that much better when you upgrade -- yourself and your wheels.


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