# Is the System6 as good as Colnago, Pinarello, etc



## jbasdf (Feb 23, 2007)

I realize I am asking this in the Cannondale forum, but I am hoping for honest answers. I have been looking at several European bikes - The Pinarello Paris Carbon, Orbea Orca, and Time. I rode a System 6 the other day. It is a nice ride. It is made in the USA and it is a lot cheaper than these other bikes. Is it as good as these other high end bikes? Will it be comfortable in a Century or on a 200 mile ride? I am looking for something that is comfortable as well as fast.

Thanks


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## Speedy (Oct 30, 2005)

Yes. :thumbsup:


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## LeDomestique (Jan 17, 2007)

What would constitue your definition of "as good as" ?

- quality?
- manufacturer warranty?
- service?
- life expectancy?
- bling factor?

It's difficult to say "it's as good as" since in today's world, most differences (specially quality differences) are perceived rather than real (IMHO).

Is the cannondale a race worthy bike? Yes
Is it pro-tour level? Yes - Liquigas
Is it going to last forever? who knows
Bling factor? on the eye of the beholder

Even though I'm semi-biased....it's difficult to answer your question. 

cheers


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## jbasdf (Feb 23, 2007)

You are correct. The question is poorly stated. I know that the System 6 is one of the stiffest bikes available. How does it rate on comfort when compared to these other bikes? I am not a young racer wanna be. I want to be able to sit on the bike and ride for a long time without being worn out by road vibration. With the aluminum rear triangle I imagine that more of the road vibration will find its way to my butt, but I don't know that for sure. Perhaps with their expertise in aluminum Cannondale has tuned the bike to be comfortable.

How much can I change the fit of the bike? With the oversized stem I imagine that you take what you get, but I am hoping that there is some way to adjust the bike to fit my body. How customizable is the bike.

Last off, you question of what is good is an important question. For some reason a Pinarello costs around 8k. A Colnago will run about the same. The Orbea is a bit cheaper but comes in at around 6k. The System 6 runs about 5k and I think I can get a deal on one.

So why is it that one bike with a similar groupo and wheels costs 3k more? I know that frames are built differently and by different people. Time handbuilds their bikes in France and lays out each fiber. That makes it more expensive but does it make the bike better? 

It would be nice if there was a quantifiable way to identify better, but so far I haven't found any great measure in the biking world. Everyone loves whatever they ride or sale. For those of us looking to purchase our first high end bike the choices are daunting. 5k is a LOT of money to blow on a bike, but there aren't any great metrics to help you chose which one is best for you. Sure you can test ride one, but 10 minute on a bike tells you nothing and few shops want you to disappear for a few days with a bike that costs so much. 

I think I am looking for opinions of riders that have spent time on a couple of different bikes. How do they feel? Are they stable on fast decents? Are they precise or twitchy? I know these are subjective questions, but they are all I have to go off of.

Thanks


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## omniviper (Sep 18, 2004)

jbasdf. great points. For a college person like me, i do not have the luxury of testing much less owning the euro bred bikes as you have pointed out. What matters to me is performance for the buck. Granted many publications have hailed the system six to be one if not the stiffest bike out there. If thats not objective enough for you i do not know what is. Then again, everyone is different. I read in magazines that cannodnale was able to fuse stiffness and comfort. Why not test ride one then?


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## LeDomestique (Jan 17, 2007)

jbasdf, your original question is also comparing a *bike (system6)* with other *brands*....which is not fair. 

A fairer question could have been "is Cannondale up there with Colnago, etc?" or "how does the S6 compare to the Dream, C50, etc?".

If comfort is what you're looking for, then maybe a Synapse would be better suited. It comes in carbon or alu and has a geometry that is a tad more relaxed but still race-worthy. 

(gee...I should be getting a commission from C'dale !)


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## uzziefly (Jul 15, 2006)

So , are ou getting the dale now?? :idea:

I like em actually but if I had a choice, I'd get time or colnago just coz I really like em.


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## femto_rider (Jul 10, 2006)

For the question of the cost of a bike compared to another, I would take a guess with R&D as a part of the answer. When you have a part of a bike already engineered that you can simply "plug" to one in development, I guess you can save a lot of $$$. Carbon bikes have to be carefully studied to respond in a specific way, but you have to do it quickly because other brands are working hard too. So, the speed of development induces a lot of investments in research and the riders pay the price. But in the road bike world, price doesn't seem to be much of a problem... I guess the strategy of Cannondale is to "mass-produce" a good part of a bike and plug it everywhere they can to dilute the cost of R&D while they develop another part. So it's not a whole bike they have to redesign... I guess!

A little thing about the comfort of Cannondale alum frames: I bought a R5000 last year (which is my second alum. bike) and I "easily" spent 210 km in one day on that bike without any backache. With my first road bike, I was feeling pain after 50 km... 

Finally, the best bike for me may be the worst for you. And at that price, you can't make a mistake if you go by your feeling. A brand cannot try to sell sh*t for 5K$ if they want to stay in business... When you identify your priorities, the list of potential bikes shortens a lot! And I would not worry about the fit with a System 6. They have a many size frame and stems, so they can probably find a good fit. 

Test ride them, go with the feeling and you will not make a mistake!


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## jbasdf (Feb 23, 2007)

I am looking into the System6 due to price. I see it in the pro peloton (Tour of Qatar lately). I rode one and it was nice. It felt alive. The Orbea Orca I rode was nice, but felt a bit fragile. I can buy two System6 bikes for the price of one Pinarello. However, the geometry of the System6 is aggressive and I am still concerned with finding different stems for the longer rides given the type of stem.

Uzziefly, I am gathering ideas and opinions right now. Trying to do due diligence before I blow a months salary on a bike. For the price the System6 is hard to beat. It is a nice ride. It is pro quality. I am still concerned about fit. A Colnago will cost me another 2kish if I can find a bike shop that sells them. 

Figuring out which bike to buy is more difficult and time consuming than choosing a wife. 

Thanks for all of your advice and opinions. The comments of actual riders help me to understand the issues around selecting the right bike.


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## trauma-md (Feb 6, 2004)

jbasdf said:


> However, the geometry of the System6 is aggressive and I am still concerned with finding different stems for the longer rides given the type of stem..


The upper steerer diameter on the S6 is 1-1/8 so you can use any brand stem. The pro teams spec non S6 stems, so you will be able to fine tune your ride with any 1-1/8 stem. I've had a System Six for almost 9 months now and can definitely say that Cannondale has found the perfect blend of stiffness and comfort. The roads in my area arent all that great, but the S6 is quite smooth and the rear absorbs a significant amount of road vibration. I was riding carbon Treks for 5 years and the ride quality is comparable, although the BB and front end stiffness of the S6 is FAR SUPERIOR. Ride one...you'll be sold.


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

For the price you are better off getting a Cannondale S6 over Colnago C50.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

jbasdf said:


> Figuring out which bike to buy is more difficult and time consuming than choosing a wife.


This is a great quote, i love it! :thumbsup:


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

Never forget warranty coverage either. Cannondale provides lifetime warranty to the original owner of the frameset and provides excellent customer service when warranty issues arise to the original owner's frameset. 

I don't know what Colnago's, Pin's and Orbea's warranty policies are, but if they are anything less than lifetime in light of what you would be paying for those frames, that's a value-destroying factor in my book that you shouldn't ignore. Around this time two years ago I was in the same boat you were in and narrowed my choices down to a Cannondale Six13, a Bianchi 928 carbon and an Orbea Orca. Among other reasons I chose Cannondale because the other firms did not provide lifetime warranty. (In fairness to Orbea, they might now be lifetime on warranty; you should verify this.) I remember telling this to the Bianchi/Orbea dealer two years when I turned him down on both bikes and went to a competitor dealer to buy the Cannondale. Well, two years later that Bianchi/Orbea dealer is now carrying Cannondale.

For the record, I've been very, very happy with the Six13. The SystemSix is my next prospective acquistion . . .


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## ronin7 (Apr 5, 2007)

I am trying to figure out which new full-carbon road bike frames i should buy, here are my choices: Colnago c50, Pinarello Paris carbon, BMC Road Machine, Cervello R3 sl, Cervello Carbon Soloist SL, or maybe a Scott Addict. I have never ridden any of these bikes but i found most of these frames somewhat around the same price(within 3 to 4 hundred dollars) except the Pinarello Paris carbon and the Cervello Soloist Carbon SL which was around the $4,500 dollar-range. The steal so far that ihave found on the net was the Colnago c50 which is a 2006 for $3,100, 07's go for $4,199 on that same site!(nice drop in price just bc of a color change) Please give me some helpful advise for i am in search of an excellent frame. Stiff, light, fast(of course) and somewhat comfy, given that stiffness can somewhat take away a lil-bit of your comfortness. Any info on these frames as well as any others would be excellent and much appreciated!-Quin


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## LeDomestique (Jan 17, 2007)

you might want to post that one on the Bikes, Frames and Forks forum instead of the Cannondale-specific forum. 

cheers


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

If you are spending $4500 I would build a custom S6 with Campy Record grouppo, frame cost $1500, Record grouppo $1560, Mavic SL $690 ( you can buy it on Ebay ) plus handle bar and saddle stem.


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## ronin7 (Apr 5, 2007)

I'm probably gonna get an exotic-type italian frame that will run me between $3,200-$4,000, any suggestions? What is an S6 frame if i might ask? I just saw a Pinarello Paris carbon for $3,299, good deal?


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## jhenry4 (Feb 4, 2006)

*custom system 6 all the way*

i must agree with zamboni here. a system 6 frame, hollowgram cranks, record groupo, campy Eurus wheels and your choice of finishing kit would be an amazing ride.

for the record, i ride a caad7 (with hollowgram crank and record groupo) but have tested the system 6, specialized tarmac sl, specialized roubaix, look 585 ultra, and a carbon trek. the system 6 is the best handling bike of the bunch, the enlarged headtube really does make for a super rigid front end, and when you stand to sprint, there's no question the system 6 wins hands down. the look 585 was nice, but not the magic carpet ride i was expecting, and didn't feel as stiff at the crank as the S6. the tarmac sl (with integrated cranks) is the only one that comes close, but i like the lively feel of the cannondale's better.


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## ronin7 (Apr 5, 2007)

Is the system 6 all carbon? How much does the frame weigh?


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

S6 front end is carbon and the rear is aluminum.


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

Jhenry4 is correct there is no better crank than Cannondale Si alum version, it's one of the lightest and stiffness crank out there, if you have a chance to test ride it you would not going back to other crank.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

zamboni said:


> Jhenry4 is correct there is no better crank than Cannondale Si alum version, it's one of the lightest and stiffness crank out there, if you have a chance to test ride it you would not going back to other crank.


I totally agree, the Hallowgram Si aluminum crank is incredible. I have Campy Record on my Six13 but keep the Si crankset; someone this week asked why I don't have a Campy Record crankset on, and I told him NFW that I would ever swap out the Si crankset. It's totally stiff, light, and beautiful to look at, IMO. I think it's telling that Cannondale has been using the same Si aluminum crankset for several years now (since at least 2003?) and despite changes in their frames and forks the crankset hasn't changed.


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

Why change when the crank is works perfectly, althought the Campy 07 crank is not that bad either. Here is the break down for Si vs. Dura Ace crank.
Diameter for Si is 37.75mm
Dura Ace is 24mm
No wonder the Si out shines Dura Ace crank.


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## Bob Ross (Apr 18, 2006)

LeDomestique said:


> If comfort is what you're looking for, then maybe a Synapse would be better suited. It comes in carbon or alu and has a geometry that is a tad more relaxed but still race-worthy.





jbasdf said:


> I can buy two System6 bikes for the price of one Pinarello. However, the geometry of the System6 is aggressive and I am still concerned with finding different stems for the longer rides given the type of stem.



Buy one System6 and one Synapse. Should still be around the price of that one Pinarello.


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## ronin7 (Apr 5, 2007)

I found a site that are selling the Pinarello prince carbon around 3,299, still not worth it? Does the Pinarello carbon ride that well or is it just another overpriced piece of carbon? On e-bay right there is a '06 Cinelli XLR8R*4 Carbon Road Bike Frame for $1,995, is that a worthy frame or what, please explain the type of ride quality one might get out of that Cinelli frame. Thanks for your help, Quin


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## jafran456 (Jul 8, 2005)

trauma-md said:


> The upper steerer diameter on the S6 is 1-1/8 so you can use any brand stem. The pro teams spec non S6 stems, so you will be able to fine tune your ride with any 1-1/8 stem. I've had a System Six for almost 9 months now and can definitely say that Cannondale has found the perfect blend of stiffness and comfort. The roads in my area arent all that great, but the S6 is quite smooth and the rear absorbs a significant amount of road vibration. I was riding carbon Treks for 5 years and the ride quality is comparable, although the BB and front end stiffness of the S6 is FAR SUPERIOR. Ride one...you'll be sold.


I agree 100% with Trauma-md. I also rode a full carbon Trek for about 2 years. Comfort-wise, it rode like a Mercedes. I could ride it all day without any soreness. Performance-wise, it rode like a 70's station wagon with 2 flat tires. It was definitely a bike built for comfort and not performance. So, I sold it and and bought a 2007 System6 in January. In my opinion, the System6 is equal in comfort compared to my old Trek. I'm not sore at all after a long ride. Performance-wise, the System6 rides like Ferrari. It definitely has some get-up-and-go! It feels very light and nimble underneath me when I get out of the saddle to sprint or climb. That's the biggest difference I've noticed compared to my old Trek. I used to feel very sluggish on the Trek, like I wasn't going anywhere. I've read and heard many folks say that the Treks have a wooden feel to them. I agree after riding one for 2 years. In my opinion, you can't go wrong with the System6. It is definitely a bike built for performance. I'm very happy with mine and highly recommend it.


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## Daddy yo yo (Apr 2, 2005)

zamboni said:


> If you are spending $4500 I would build a custom S6 with Campy Record grouppo, frame cost $1500, Record grouppo $1560, Mavic SL $690 ( you can buy it on Ebay ) plus handle bar and saddle stem.


yep, i'd definitely go for a custom-bike too if i were you.

system six frameset with either si or record crankset, record group, and nice/good aluminum bar, stem & seatpost (no one really needs carbon there) such as ritchey wcs, deda zero100&newton, syntace, oval concepts, fsa, thomson, or similar. as for the wheels, i'd never buy mavic again since i own a pair of neutron wheels (campagnolo). the quality of the hubs & bearings is way beyond everything that mavic could ever come up with. my own experience.

as for the stem: i would definitely go for the original system six stem. other stems look so lost on the system six due ti its chunky head tube, just like a toothpick compared to a 200 year-old oak tree.

the comparison between c'dale, colnago & pinarello is not a fair one. in my point of view, colnago and pinarello are simply outdated and way too expensive. they live off their reputation and the myth that those brands created in the past. but this is *only my perception*.


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## ronin7 (Apr 5, 2007)

I have to ask though, price not being an issue you would go with the system-six over the Pinarello paris carbon, Colnago c-50, or the BMC pro machine? I have to be a 100% upon making my decision when spending this kind of money on a bike. Also would you go for the dura-ace or the Campy record groupset? Your info is very helpful!-Quin


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## ronin7 (Apr 5, 2007)

*Decisions*

I have to ask though, price not being an issue you would go with the system-six over the Pinarello paris carbon, Colnago c-50, or the BMC pro machine? I have to be a 100% upon making my decision when spending this kind of money on a bike. Also would you go for the dura-ace or the Campy record groupset? Your info is very helpful!-Quin


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

I would go with Campy.


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## ronin7 (Apr 5, 2007)

*Zamboni*

Zamboni? Please explain


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

I started out with Shimano a few years back and switch to Campy in the last two years and reason is Campy last longer when compare to Shimano, beside you can get spare parts to rebuild where Shimano has to be replaced ( unfixable ). I'm sure most other members would agree and I hated the cables hanging out on the front of handle bar.


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## mikeyp123 (Mar 9, 2007)

here's some interesting comparisons between many of the 06 pro-tour bikes, from German Tour magazine.. something like that. Checkout the lateral and BB stiffness of the SystemSix. The Pinarello Paris Carbon doesn't rate very high. It would be interesting to see what the C50 numbers are.

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=25692
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=28598


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## Daddy yo yo (Apr 2, 2005)

ok, here's my thoughts on that topic: yes, i would prefer c'dale over the italian brands. why? i simply don't like the italian brands as much as c'dale. it's just a guts-feeling, ok!? no precise and objective data on that issue available.

campagnolo vs. shimano: try the groupsets and buy the one that you prefer (shifting, noise, touch, design, looks, etc.). they're both equally good or perfect. campagnolo lasts longer than shimano. bullshi*! they are equally good. but if you really believe that campagnolo lasts longer that fact is neutralized again by higher costs for spare parts. so, there's no good argument for either of the 2. what about sram? an american group would fit an american bike very well, i believe...


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## zamboni (Sep 11, 2003)

SRAM is new to the roadbike grouppo and they are not the cheap either beside the shim on SRAM did not work as well as the Campy.


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## MaestroXC (Sep 15, 2005)

Wait for next year before getting a SRAM road group. Changes are coming.


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