# Cracked Ti frame - Issue with 7?



## TopQuark (Aug 9, 2012)

I have been reading a lot about cracked frames from Litespeed, Lynskey, Douglas, Merlin,etc.

Has it happened to anyone here with a Seven?

I'm planning to have a Seven.


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## Bobonli (May 8, 2008)

I don't have one, yet but have spoken to a lot of owners this season. No one has had anything but praise for Seven. Haven't heard a thing about frame cracks. In fact, I ride with two Linskey owners and haven't heard them mention it either.

Where have you read "a lot" about cracked frames?


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## TopQuark (Aug 9, 2012)

I read them in forums and google. It turns out I cannot post photos yet because I only have 6 posts. LOL. I sure will post photos as soon as I hit 10 posts.


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## TopQuark (Aug 9, 2012)

Ok. I got my 10 posts. LOL!



Bobonli said:


> Where have you read "a lot" about cracked frames?


I just did a google. Here are some of photos of cracked Ti frames:


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## vagabondcyclist (Apr 2, 2011)

While some of those may look like bad welds, some others don't. Without knowing all the details, it's hard to say if the cracks were caused by crashes, running into the garage door, bad wrenching, etc. 

I'm into the second summer with my Lynskey Sportive and haven't had any issues. There's a big guy in my club with a three year old + Helix. 

Everything breaks. Anything made by humans will have a flaw. Good quality control practices help, but everything breaks. 

Google broken carbon for some fun.


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

All materials can be broken and I would imagine that it is possible for something to go wrong at any stage in production. If you are considering a Seven, you know they carefully select tubing to ensure quality. They also have a lifetime warranty. If, for some inexplicable reason, something goes wrong that is not the result of rider error, they would most likely replace your frame.


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## samh (May 5, 2004)

*Cracked ti*



Bobonli said:


> I don't have one, yet but have spoken to a lot of owners this season. No one has had anything but praise for Seven. Haven't heard a thing about frame cracks. In fact, I ride with two Linskey owners and haven't heard them mention it either.
> 
> Where have you read "a lot" about cracked frames?


Pthe 2nd from bottom is Airborne?
That's terible. What is the bottom?


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## AMPanator (Aug 15, 2012)

http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/thoughts-lynskey-m390-785277.html
http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=2376.0
shaundoreenevankeen.blogspot.com
bikerumor-lynskey releases sram red color matched limited edition helix os ti road bike


Just when i'm thimking of getting a Helix


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## jstorm940 (Oct 24, 2010)

*Seven frame*



TopQuark said:


> I have been reading a lot about cracked frames from Litespeed, Lynskey, Douglas, Merlin,etc.
> 
> Has it happened to anyone here with a Seven?
> 
> I'm planning to have a Seven.


I have only had my Axiom SLX for about 700 miles now.
I have not seen any cracks but its only 700 miles. I would be
real unhappy if it did crack, that is for sure. Durability was
one of the advantages (or so I thought) of a good TI frame.
My fingers are crossed.


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## Dajianshan (Jul 15, 2007)

I really don't think there is any reason to keep one's "fingers crossed". The only reason you see so many cracked frames on the internet is because you search for them. Google cracked (material of choice) and you will be sure to find plenty of examples. For the most part, MOST bikes produced by any reputable manufacturer are not going to crack. Then there are a handful that do and those go on the internet. I had a scandium alloy frame crack at the HT. It was replaced. I have seen numerous CF bikes trashed. I have seen some nice steel framed bikes and aluminum bikes fail. It happens. 

I still think the durability of titanium is relevant. I don't know how many times I have knocked a chainstay against something without damage I couldn't polish out with 3M pads. The bike looks new when it is not dirty. 

So really, there is no idea to unnecessarily inflate the fears of potential frame failure unless you are an insurance salesman.


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## trinch (Jun 25, 2011)

*Cracked Axiom*

Yes, I have a cracked Axiom. While riding on a club ride. I was sprinting up a 200 meter rise when my Seven turned into a wet noodle. Cracked all around the BB. Looked into having it repaired through Seven but is to expensive. I am the second owner. Purchased from a ex Seven employee. Loved the bike for the five years that I rode it. Very disappointed that Seven will not help me out on the repair. Needless to say I bought a used Elium. Lovin my new Seven. Hopefully it last longer than the Axiom. There is just something about Sevens that keeps me wanting to ride one.


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## TopQuark (Aug 9, 2012)

trinch said:


> Yes, I have a cracked Axiom. While riding on a club ride. I was sprinting up a 200 meter rise when my Seven turned into a wet noodle. Cracked all around the BB. Looked into having it repaired through Seven but is to expensive. I am the second owner. Purchased from a ex Seven employee. Loved the bike for the five years that I rode it. Very disappointed that Seven will not help me out on the repair. Needless to say I bought a used Elium. Lovin my new Seven. Hopefully it last longer than the Axiom. There is just something about Sevens that keeps me wanting to ride one.


May I know what year was your original Seven?


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## trinch (Jun 25, 2011)

I believe it is a 2000. I bought it in 2005 after it came back from Seven. The owner had Seven go through the frame and make it look new again.


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## mgringle (May 20, 2011)

*pictures?*

You have any pics of the broken frame? love to see the new bike too !


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## Erion929 (Jun 10, 2010)

trinch said:


> Yes, I have a cracked Axiom. While riding on a club ride. I was sprinting up a 200 meter rise when my Seven turned into a wet noodle. Cracked all around the BB. Looked into having it repaired through Seven but is to expensive. I am the second owner. Purchased from a ex Seven employee. Loved the bike for the five years that I rode it. Very disappointed that Seven will not help me out on the repair. Needless to say I bought a used Elium. Lovin my new Seven. Hopefully it last longer than the Axiom. There is just something about Sevens that keeps me wanting to ride one.



Yeah, I thought Seven had a lifetime warranty....was it limited in some way? Why wasn't it covered in full? 

**


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## russd32 (Aug 25, 2011)

I think it's just the nature of titanium to crack when it's pushed beyond it's limits. Instead of bending it cracks. But I wouldn't think it's a real common thing. Of the thousands of Ti bikes built every year there are maybe a couple dozen pics of broken frames online. People break frames of all materials so I wouldn't let a few pics push you away from titanium. I've got an Airborne and if it fit me better I'd probably sell my carbon frame and put all of my good parts on it because it rides great and is super easy to take care of.


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## bud wiser (Jan 2, 2003)

Erion929 said:


> Yeah, I thought Seven had a lifetime warranty....was it limited in some way? Why wasn't it covered in full?
> 
> **


Warranty applies to the original owner only. Poster was not OO.


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## Otterinaround (Aug 7, 2005)

Love my Aerios! Had it built in 2007. It's been glorious riding ever since. The response is crisp and the custom fitting of the frame makes it ultra comfortable. I
Pity the bastards in British Airways decided to add a ding in the down tube. I've been eyeing repairs on the downtube but worry about the cost myself.
The thing stayed true and not a single crack in sight.
Although the decals have nearly all but gone.


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## jeffast (Dec 18, 2012)

A friend of mine just cracked his 2nd hand Litespeed (Vortex). Turns out Litespeed is ignoring the "lifetime" warranty (for other original owners). His broke at the bottom bracket, due to a stress riser introduced through sloppy manufacturing. It seems this is a common problem for Litespeeds of that timeframe (~2004).

I have a 1999 Axiom, and did this google out of curiosity. My Seven has been ridden for many thousands of miles with no problems. Just wanted to post that it has been all good. Not all Ti is built the same it seems. The Seven quality is evident. I didn't quite realize how much until I had to listen to my buddy about his issues with Litespeed (sloppy construction seems to be the root cause of this rash of failures).


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## TopQuark (Aug 9, 2012)

Seven's design philosophy is on the mark. From tech supplement:

_"Odd tube shapes (ovals, so-called geometrically enhanced tubes, squares, six-sided tubes, etc.) are becoming more and more common these days. At first glance, these shapes appear to enhance the performance of the bike. Unfortunately, in most cases,
performance is actually compromised."_
_
"Grain structure is what provides the strength and toughness of a material. The mill draws the tube in a specific way so that the resulting grain structure is optimized for strength and fatigue endurance. Thus, if the shape of the tube is changed, the tube's grain structure is also changed. As a result, the tubes' strength and durability are compromised."_


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## Nattymo (Feb 22, 2013)

For sure, as others have said, no matter the material it is possible to have it fail. When talking about ultralight high performance items no matter what type; aircraft, boats, motorcycle, auto, sports gear and so on, you are trading some level of durability for the performance return. If you are buying second hand you gain a huge cost savings but that comes with some added risk and uncertainty. Which is why the Mfg won't warranty the frame. The use/abuse history of the item becomes hard to trace. There should be some advantage to buying new, right?

I've owned many of the top frames over the past 25 years + worked in several high end shops in the US. I've sold hundreds of Ti frames over my career. I stopped working in the bike business over 10 years ago but continued to be active with cycling. I am lucky to be in a position to own nearly any frame I wish. My personal material choice for a performance road frames is Ti when durability is a concern.

The Seven and Serotta Ti frames I have owned and sold all have been wonderful ridding bikes and very durable. The build quality of these frames is extreamly high. For a time I sold Lightspeed frames and we did have a few disappointing detail issues but none of the affected frames left the shop. To their credit Lightspeed corrected the problems. Not to dispute that others have had issues with Lightspeed, but that my shop/s were well treated at that time, pre 2004 as it happens.

When corners are cut in building frames to lower cost, durability often suffers. The material choice does not offset poor build quality. 

Seven has been very good to deal with for years, I've personally known many Seven owners who have been delighted by the durability of their bikes. With proper care and feeding I would expect a high quality Ti frame such as a Seven to outlast the same level steel frame. 

With proper abuse you can destroy even the best frames. I've known many of the top cycling brands to warranty even abused frames as customer good will. That doesn't mean they can or will always do so.

NM


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## TopQuark (Aug 9, 2012)

Excellent input from someone with 25 years experience with high end bikes!

I started this thread 5 months ago after agonizing which bike manufacturer to commit to. 2 Axioms later and a 3rd Elium coming up for my daughter, I can say I really like the Sevens. Ride quality, workmanship, and precision is top notch. I can tell when installing 11 speed set-ups where tolerances are very tight. I don't expect to baby them but, from the inputs I got, cracking on Sevens is not a problem unless, of course, I abuse their use.

I have no doubt Seven will deliver in case of isolated defect on the bike. From what I can tell, I am at home with Seven for their superb customer service.


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## norcalscot (Jul 2, 2003)

Hope I'm not resurrecting a dead thread. I'm on my second Axiom Ti frame, after the first one developed a severe crack at the bottom bracket. I'd had the bike about 6 years when this happened. It had between 40 and 50 thousand miles on it. I don't have any photos of the crack unfortunately, but it went 3/4 of the way round the down tube, emanating out of the weld at the bottom bracket. The bike was never crashed in its entire life.

Seven replaced the frame under warranty as I was the original owner - I had very good customer service with them, and they got a new frame built and shipped to me within 5 or 6 weeks. I've had the second frame for a little over 5 years now, and it is trucking along nicely. It has 30,000 + on it.

All frame materials can fail - having a company that backs up their product in the event of failure is the key thing here. Seven did right by me and I'm more than happy with their product.


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## davos (Aug 14, 2006)

norcalscot said:


> Hope I'm not resurrecting a dead thread. I'm on my second Axiom Ti frame, after the first one developed a severe crack at the bottom bracket. I'd had the bike about 6 years when this happened. It had between 40 and 50 thousand miles on it. I don't have any photos of the crack unfortunately, but it went 3/4 of the way round the down tube, emanating out of the weld at the bottom bracket. The bike was never crashed in its entire life.
> 
> Seven replaced the frame under warranty as I was the original owner - I had very good customer service with them, and they got a new frame built and shipped to me within 5 or 6 weeks. I've had the second frame for a little over 5 years now, and it is trucking along nicely. It has 30,000 + on it.
> 
> All frame materials can fail - having a company that backs up their product in the event of failure is the key thing here. Seven did right by me and I'm more than happy with their product.


This is the exact type of input i was hoping to read- thanks for posting. I own two Lynskey's and both have cracked on me! Unfortunately I'm not the original owner of either so the cost to repair is on me. The first was nominal so I had them do the work the second bike not so much and the crack seems similar to what you experienced on your location wise. The big difference is the bike has less than 9K on it.

I'm thinking of Seven for my next bike and it's nice to read how durable they are. While Lynskey has been great customer service wise I'm doubting the durability reliability of the product. I know if I buy direct from them I'm covered with the warranty but honestly I don't want to have send the bike back.

Did you go custom fit or just buy stock sizing? I'm still trying to figure what's best for me. Thx


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## Duane Gran (Feb 3, 2004)

I know of one person who had a crack develop and Seven covered it under warranty at no charge. My friend's description was that Seven tended to err on the side of assuming liability and wasn't prone to argue or dispute the issue with a customer.


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## decerebrated (May 19, 2006)

I have seen a Seven frame with a crack across the right hand side chain stay where the stay attaches to the dropout. The frame had done somewhere around 100,000kms according to the owner. The frame was shipped from Australia back to Seven for repair. The frame was back one week later, looking like new at no cost to the customer. Fantastic customer service by Seven


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