# Look 486 or 585 - which would you pick?



## sabraitis (Jan 6, 2005)

I’m torn between the 486 and the 585. I’m 87kg (191lb) 6’1”. I’ve got limited experience in Road bikes (last ride was a Gios Frame set with Compagnolo equipment) over 15yrs ago. I plan on doing a lot of long distance riding and many hills. I’m here in Canada where it’s far too cold to ride bikes at this time, nor does my dealer have either frame available to ride. Need to order now and need advice. 

Both are priced similarly and I’m leaning towards the new latest greatest 585… but I originally fell in love with the 486… Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!


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## peterpen (May 5, 2004)

*585*

I'd go for the 585. Beautiful bike at damn near half the weight of the 486 and for $100 less at most places. Plus the 585 comes with the HSC 5 fork, while the 486 is spec'd with the HSC 4. I weigh 175 and found the 585 to be very stiff, plus boy was it fun to point uphill! I ended up ordering a 481, opting for more relaxed geometry and vertically compliant ride, but spent quite some time considering the 585. It's very quick, lively, and a thing of beauty. I have not ridden a 486.
Personally, I can't stand how the 486 looks - it's way too chunky for my taste, but then I've never been a fan of monocoque construction. On the other hand, there are plenty of people on this board who will rave about the ride of the 486, and even a few who own more than one. Check some of the other threads. Search around and see if you can find somebody who has either/ both to test ride. Even if you have to spend all day driving, it would be worth it even just from a fit standpoint.


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## 6was9 (Jan 28, 2004)

*486 chunkiness...*

is only from the side view... and well, BB area. Viewed from top or front will show blade-like very thin aero shape of the tubes.

Also if you are getting back to riding another thing to consider regarding Look bikes is that they are quick handling bikes... both of my Look, 486 & 461, handle much quicker than all my other bikes (Merckx, Colnagos, etc) and many other bikes I've ridden. In fact I know someone who got rid of his 486 only after a month because he just didn't like the quick handling.... So test ride if you can... which is nearly impossible.


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## peterpen (May 5, 2004)

*differing geometries*

Curious what size your frames are, 6was9? In looking at the geometry tables for all the different Look frames, I notice that there's a significant shift in HT angles and trail mid-way through the sizes. Thus, my 52cm 481 will have a 72* HTA and 65mm trail while a 55cm 481 would have a 74* HTA and only 52mm of trail. Given that both sizes are spec'd with the same 43mm rake fork, the 55cm should handle more quickly (or be less stable, if you prefer.) There is a similiar shift in HTA and trail that occurs in the 486 and 461, as well as the 585. I can't figure out why they would do this - maybe to maintain a specific wheelbase? 

You might want to take this into account, Sabraitis, since you most likely will be riding one of the larger frames.

FWIW, I was talking about the 481 and the 585 with a friend of mine, who had reviewed both for Bicycling Magazine. He found the 585 to be a "bit of a handful" on fast decents while the 481 had a "predictable" ride similiar to a classic steel frame. As someone who tests bikes for a living (rough job, eh?) he obviously has a vastly more refined feel for these things, but it seemed to match my experience during several test rides on both. Ahh, the joys of living in the Bay Area - there are probably half a dozen shops with Looks to test within an hour drive of me, plus Veltec just did a series of demo days. I'm spoiled.


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## jca82282 (Nov 21, 2004)

I bought the 585 about 5 weeks ago and after only 200 or so miles I have no handling complaints. I am a novice of 2 years and came off a Moots Compact 52cm ( the 585 is a 51 ). I prefer the handling of the Look over the Moots so far and I find it to be very confidence inspiring on fast decents. I live in NC and ride in the Blue ridge mountains some so there are some good downhills. I wonder what Peterpen's friend meant by " a handful " ?

The only issue I can find with the 585 is when I torque on the bars there is what seems to me to be a fair amount of lateral movement in the head tube / lug area. I want to have a more experienced person check this out. When I ride the lateral movement is not noticeable at all.


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## spookyload (Jan 30, 2004)

If you are looking for ride comfort, a lugged frame like the 585 will always be more comfortable than a monocoque frame. The question I have is your weight on a 585. Wan't there a recommended weight that was given for the 585?


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## BugMan (Feb 16, 2004)

spookyload said:


> If you are looking for ride comfort, a lugged frame like the 585 will always be more comfortable than a monocoque frame.


    
Can you please explain? I have a 486 and the ride comfort is one of the (many) things I love about it.


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## peterpen (May 5, 2004)

Actually, I think one of the selling points of the 585 is that there is no weight limit. Within reason of course - if the OP weighed 250 lbs., it might be a different story but 190 shouldn't be a problem. A weight limit was never mentioned when I demo'd the 585 and I'm not that much lighter.

Personally, I'd be hesitant about saying that lugged will 'always' be more comfortable than monocoque. Certainly true most of the time, but it's a bit like saying aluminum will always be harsher than steel - it depends on the build. On the other hand, just because the 486 has a very comfortable ride, doesn't mean the 585 couldn't be even smoother!


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## 6was9 (Jan 28, 2004)

*Not sure about monocoque...*



BugMan said:


> Can you please explain? I have a 486 and the ride comfort is one of the (many) things I love about it.


but at least, I was talking about ride comparison... I switch bikes all the time thus I notice the difference...well,pretty big difference. My 486 or 461 are definitely not uncomfortable... actually they have very nice rides...but compared to my Colnagos...C50 & MXL... they just handle quicker which is neither bad or good... just different. Colnagos are more stable bikes. I prefer one of my Nags to a Look bike on longer rides, personally. But I love my Looks on quick fast paced rides....


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## symbo (Dec 7, 2004)

I just got a 481SL, size 59. Also rode a 486 and an Orca in the parking lot, didn't notice much (big surprise). Now that I've taken my 481 out for a few extended rides, I surprised how responsive it is. I love it, though I have to pay a bit more attention on fast descents. Have not tried the 585, but if it's even quicker than the 481 - I'd recommend taking it out on ride before your decision. The shop had Look posters up next to each model frame with stars in different categories (road racing, criterium, time trial, climbing etc). If I remember right the 585 had top billing in climbing and maybe even crit, where the 486 was time trial. sorry I can't remember exactly, maybe the web site has the same thing.

By the way, saw an unbuilt orca on display, the workmanship looked kinda shody in a couple of spots - nothing serious, but it did help sway my opinion towards the Look. It's kind of interesting to compare prices in the states and Europe. I'm here in France, and the shop has the orca frame and fork at 1750 Euro, the 486 and 481 both at about 2400 Euro, and the 585 at 2700 Euro. I opted for a close out 2004 complete demo bike with ultegra for about 2000 Euro.

What are the prices like in the states?


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## sabraitis (Jan 6, 2005)

*Thanks Peterpen*



peterpen said:


> Curious what size your frames are, 6was9? In looking at the geometry tables for all the different Look frames, I notice that there's a significant shift in HT angles and trail mid-way through the sizes. Thus, my 52cm 481 will have a 72* HTA and 65mm trail while a 55cm 481 would have a 74* HTA and only 52mm of trail. Given that both sizes are spec'd with the same 43mm rake fork, the 55cm should handle more quickly (or be less stable, if you prefer.) There is a similiar shift in HTA and trail that occurs in the 486 and 461, as well as the 585. I can't figure out why they would do this - maybe to maintain a specific wheelbase?
> 
> You might want to take this into account, Sabraitis, since you most likely will be riding one of the larger frames.
> 
> FWIW, I was talking about the 481 and the 585 with a friend of mine, who had reviewed both for Bicycling Magazine. He found the 585 to be a "bit of a handful" on fast decents while the 481 had a "predictable" ride similiar to a classic steel frame. As someone who tests bikes for a living (rough job, eh?) he obviously has a vastly more refined feel for these things, but it seemed to match my experience during several test rides on both. Ahh, the joys of living in the Bay Area - there are probably half a dozen shops with Looks to test within an hour drive of me, plus Veltec just did a series of demo days. I'm spoiled.




This is the type of info I was looking for. Now I'm a little concerned with the look in general as I'm looking for a more stable ride (due to lack of experience) and the frame size is 57cm.

Anyway, thanks all for the excellent advice. If there is more I'm still reading and haven't made a purchase yet. Looking forward to the first ride though!


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## jerome brugger (Feb 10, 2005)

hello i just want to ask you if the new 555 would be a good idea for the vosges or jura roads in france ... do you remember if it was classified by look as a climbing bike or something else ?
au revoir merci
(that question was for symbo or whoever else ... )


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## symbo (Dec 7, 2004)

*Posters with Look Frame Ride Features*



jerome brugger said:


> hello i just want to ask you if the new 555 would be a good idea for the vosges or jura roads in france ... do you remember if it was classified by look as a climbing bike or something else ?
> au revoir merci
> (that question was for symbo or whoever else ... )


Sorry to say I don't remember with what they had listed on the board for the 555, as I was not really interested in that model. I took a quick look at the website and did not see the descriptions that Look has posted in the shop. The posters looked very corporate and professional, so I suppose other shops, at least in France, would have them. I'd check for your but won't be back in the shop for a while due to travel.

Anyone else out there seen these descriptions? (with stars ranking various ride features)

It's a compact frame with oversize tubes - which they list on the website as "nerveux et trés confortable" which seems like a bit of "you can have it all" speak.
I'm not a big fan of compact geometry - especially if you're tall. As far as the for the roads in France, I would think any Look frame will do you well. They are generally on the nimble side of the spectrum which is great for the smaller twisty stuff you find here. What a difference from mile after mile straights I rode in the southwest USA.

Happy Hunting


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## jerome brugger (Feb 10, 2005)

thanks for your answer
i hope somebody knows something


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