# June 8th Dauphine -- Ventoux Predictions Here



## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

Ok, here are my top five:

1. Iban Mayo -- why not? This guy has been ragged on the last two years, let's give him a shot. He's not too far down on GC so he should be motivated.

2. Alejandro Valverde -- should win the stage, but let's give poor Iban a chance.

3. Vino -- he won it last year. Might tomorrow be his Tour de France?

4. Piepoli -- won two Giro mountain stages, is he cooked for the Giant of Provence?

5. Landis -- play that ZZ Top on your ipod up the climb, Floyd, and snatch yellow to win your FOURTH stage race this year, bro!

Honorable mentions: Denny Menchov, Levi Leipheimer, Popovych.


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## terzo rene (Mar 23, 2002)

Mostly likely some no name in a break will win.

Otherwise Valverde just because if he's within 200m of the leaders in the last km it's over.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

My vote is for Landis and Valverde. Levi and Piepoli should hopefully be in the top 5 too.

Mayo has little chance. But... nothing would please me more than to see him up front at the Ventoux. If he doesn't have a good showing at this year's Dauphne climbs, I'd say career over.

francois


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

It really depends how deep the TDF hopefulls are willing to dig to win the Dauphine. Do you go for victory and hope you haven't burnt too many matches come July, after all it's a great victory to have on your Palmares, or do you reign it in and put all your eggs in the TDF basket.....tough call. I think Floyd could win it but does he want to?


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## giovanni sartori (Feb 5, 2004)

OnTheRivet said:


> It really depends how deep the TDF hopefulls are willing to dig to win the Dauphine. Do you go for victory and hope you haven't burnt too many matches come July, after all it's a great victory to have on your Palmares, or do you reign it in and put all your eggs in the TDF basket.....tough call. I think Floyd could win it but does he want to?


This whole notion of burning too many matches has gotten a little out of hand. Its 1 stage, how the bloody hell are you supposed to train for the Tour de France without hard mountain efforts? Go for it I say!


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

Vino....no. I don't expect Vino to go for it. I think he is there for some training and to check everyone out. Last year he was looking for a new team. This year he's putting it all for nothing on the TDF.

Valverde...Just maybe...to gain some time on the GC.

Popo.....He's got something to prove. If he doesn't think so I am disappointed in him.

Peipoli...OMG...he could blow it away. I didn't see him on roster till someone mentioned it.

Landis...is going to hold out. I think he held back some on the TT. It looked like he was trying to just make the checkpoints with a slight lead and prob held back and will do the same on Thurs. He might hang around with Levi for some Thurs Lactic training.

Levi...He knows he is not in the top 3 at TDF so he could go for it.

Mancebo, Sevilla...honorable mentions.

Overall...I would be suprised that any TDF GC hopeful would burn it to try for a win on the "giant".


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

OnTheRivet said:


> It really depends how deep the TDF hopefulls are willing to dig to win the Dauphine. Do you go for victory and hope you haven't burnt too many matches come July, after all it's a great victory to have on your Palmares, or do you reign it in and put all your eggs in the TDF basket.....tough call. I think Floyd could win it but does he want to?


I believe the contenders tomorrow will all be trying equally hard. None of them are big names like Armstrong or Ullrich. Lance had a training pattern that won him previous TDFs. He had a TDF streak to protect and sacrificed all to minize risk in the TDF.

All these upstarts are wanting to test their bodies and see how it will perform. Also, wins and glory count for these guys equally high I'd say.

francois


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## Einstruzende (Jun 1, 2004)

Tough call. I really can't get a feeling on it. I think Landis will be close enough to snatch the Yellow (or to make it real close), however I don't see him winning the stage.

I hate to be a homer, but how about Chris Horner? He's gotta be hungry to prove himself, and he can climb pretty well. Maybe he gets in an early break away and does enough to survive ahead of a group containing the likely names Valverde, Landis, Piepoli, ...


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

1. Valverde (I believe in the kid!)
2. Landis (watch out for sunglasses!)
3. Popo (very quiet, but strong)
4. Vino (attack, attack, attack!)
5. Mancebo (hutchback strikes again!)
6. Menchov (another youngster to watch)
7. Azevedo (Go Portugal!)


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

giovanni sartori said:


> This whole notion of burning too many matches has gotten a little out of hand. Its 1 stage, how the bloody hell are you supposed to train for the Tour de France without hard mountain efforts? Go for it I say!


It's one stage today, but if he's in yellow he'll probably decide to defend, have you seen the three following stages, brutal. Defending the jersey on stages like that could pose a problem later on. Armstrong even commented on it in 2003.


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## Truth Hurts (Oct 28, 2005)

Hincapie followed by Vino. Two guys that need some positive chatter before the TdF.


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## SantaCruz (Mar 22, 2002)

I pick a Spaniard - one of Manolo's former riders.
OOOOOps wrong forum.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Valverde


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

Surprise winner (assuming the break is caught)...

Popovich
Then...
Valverde (who won going up this mtn last July) and Landis, roughly together.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

Looks like Landis won't be holding anything back today!


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Looks like Landis won't be holding anything back today!


Will someone remove the IV hanging from Sevilla's arm...... ;-0


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

philippec said:


> Will someone remove the IV hanging from Sevilla's arm...... ;-0



Wow, I thought the big favorites were all just marking one another but it's looking like they were simply dropped!


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Wow, I thought the big favorites were all just marking one another but it's looking like they were simply dropped!


Azavedo's been caught... who's gonna be the Ventoux's daddy today? My sentimental fav. is Moreau....


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

philippec said:


> Azavedo's been caught... who's gonna be the Ventoux's daddy today? My sentimental fav. is Moreau....


But for the width of a tubular it would have been Moreau -- what a nail-biter! Great finish... now, what's the damage behind??


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## Asiago (Jan 28, 2004)

*yellow*



philippec said:


> But for the width of a tubular it would have been Moreau -- what a nail-biter! Great finish... now, what's the damage behind??


Levi in yellow...


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

No one was really close.. maybe a few mentioned in the honorables.





fornaca68 said:


> Ok, here are my top five:
> 
> 1. Iban Mayo -- why not? This guy has been ragged on the last two years, let's give him a shot. He's not too far down on GC so he should be motivated.
> 
> ...


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

philippec said:


> But for the width of a tubular it would have been Moreau -- what a nail-biter! Great finish... now, what's the damage behind??


Gadret and Casar at the Giro, now Moreau and Chevenal today. It's almost as if there aren't "two speeds" anymore. If so, how appropriate would that have been for Moreau to win?


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

bas said:


> No one was really close.. maybe a few mentioned in the honorables.


And Landis and Hincapie down <b>9:30!!</b> on Menchov (minus 5 seconds for Leipheimer) That's got to hurt! Youch!


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## Asiago (Jan 28, 2004)

philippec said:


> And Landis and Hincapie down <b>9:30!!</b> on Menchov (minus 5 seconds for Leipheimer) That's got to hurt! Youch!


Gilbert beat them BOTH! ...by MINUTES!!!


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

Levi should have charged Menchov and the other two guys bus fair up Ventoux. Very, very impressive ride by LL.


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

Gadret, Casar, Moreau, Shmoreau.... what about me!!! I am waiting for my call up papers to help fill out the ranks of the post-Puerto peleton. Afterall, I've been racing well this year and just raced the Ventoux last week!!

I am waiting by the phone.....

......still waiting



..... waiting....



..... anyone??


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

Levi rode smart like Armstrong -- he didn't care too much about the stage win, more interested in pulling most of the way up the lunar landscape to distance himself on GC from the other favorites. Looks like it's Menchov vs. Leipheimer the next two days. Should be fun!!!

TG for cycling.tv!


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## mrt10x (Aug 10, 2005)

So much for Hincapie climbing with the true climbers.. and I am a big George fan.


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## Asiago (Jan 28, 2004)

fornaca68 said:


> TG for cycling.tv!


Is CTV doing recaps later in the day? I cannot believe Iforgot that CTV was covering the DL.


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## Guest (Jun 8, 2006)

> HINCAPIE FINISHES 9'13" BACK!! Landis now finishes 9'31" back!!


Wow - this doesn't bode to well for the TdF. It'll be interesting to see how the next couple of climbs go. At this rate, Basso won't have to be at 100% - unless Jan's June shows him at close to top form.

Nice ride by Levi - I think it was smart to conserve energy and not contest the stage win.


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

Hincapie, Popovich, and Landis were all big disappointments today. I don't buy into the "I care more about preparing for the TdF than winning," either. Phonak clearly was setting Landis up at the foot of the climb. He was going for the win. 

The two Disco riders should have been going for the win, or at least trying to make a statement. Unless they win the Vuelta with Danielson, a win in the Dauphine would have been the team's biggest of the year.


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## zosocane (Aug 29, 2004)

By tomorrow you should be able to view today's Ventoux stage on their "archive" list. It will probably be two reels -- one is 30 minutes of highlights from beginning; the second is the last 30 minutes unedited.

Oh yeah, on cycling.tv you can watch on demand in the comfort of your own office (with no wife/girlfriend to nag you) this year's Paris Roubaix and Liege-Bastogne-Liege, among others.


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## Asiago (Jan 28, 2004)

fornaca68 said:


> By tomorrow you should be able to view today's Ventoux stage on their "archive" list. It will probably be two reels -- one is 30 minutes of highlights from beginning; the second is the last 30 minutes unedited.
> 
> Oh yeah, on cycling.tv you can watch on demand in the comfort of your own office (with no wife/girlfriend to nag you) this year's Paris Roubaix and Liege-Bastogne-Liege, among others.


Yeah, I even subscribe to the premium channel. Big DOH for me in forgetting to watch this morning!


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

Where did Hincapie actually finish? The official standings on Eurosport have him only 3 min's back of LL. Eurosport's live coverage had him coming in at 9 min, but keep in mind that Egoi basically looks like his twin. That could have been Egoi.

The live footage commentary had Hincapie finishing with Valverde. If that's correct, then it was actually an impressive ride for George, keeping the wheel of a climber like Valverde.


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## 32and3cross (Feb 28, 2005)

From what I saw Hincapie finished with Valverde.

Levi was the man today and def took the bull by the horns.
I was glad to see menchove hold Moron off at the line.



cyclodawg said:


> Where did Hincapie actually finish? The official standings on Eurosport have him only 3 min's back of LL. Eurosport's live coverage had him coming in at 9 min, but keep in mind that Egoi basically looks like his twin. That could have been Egoi.
> 
> The live footage commentary had Hincapie finishing with Valverde. If that's correct, then it was actually an impressive ride for George, keeping the wheel of a climber like Valverde.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

AJL said:


> Wow - this doesn't bode to well for the TdF. It'll be interesting to see how the next couple of climbs go. At this rate, Basso won't have to be at 100% - unless Jan's June shows him at close to top form.
> 
> Nice ride by Levi - I think it was smart to conserve energy and not contest the stage win.


Not really, probably didn't feel great today so just sat up. The only way either of these guys would have lost 9+ minutes if they were trying is if a leg fell off.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

cyclodawg said:


> Where did Hincapie actually finish? The official standings on Eurosport have him only 3 min's back of LL. Eurosport's live coverage had him coming in at 9 min, but keep in mind that Egoi basically looks like his twin. That could have been Egoi.
> 
> The live footage commentary had Hincapie finishing with Valverde. If that's correct, then it was actually an impressive ride for George, keeping the wheel of a climber like Valverde.


Well Valverde was hardly impressive today and could barely hold the wheel of his domestiqe setting the pace. One would figure both Landis and Hincapie were looking to do a good ride as they had their teams on the front coming to the climb. Maybe Hincapie was riding controlled certainly Landis was, but you've got to figure that was after he couldn't follow the pace.


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## Mosovich (Feb 3, 2004)

*Okay, maybe I won't have to eat crow...*

I just don't see Hincapie as a grand tour contender. Yeah, top 10, but I just don't see the big 1 on his back. Great guy, but probably more suited for shorter stage races like Crit. Int'l or other one week races with out big climbs. 

It'll be interesting though and should make for a good mix come July.


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## awesometown (May 23, 2005)

Provisional
1 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 4.50.37
2 Christophe Moreau (Fra) AG2R Prévoyance 
3 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner 0.07
4 José Azevedo (Por) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 0.10
5 Sylvain Chavanel (Fra) Cofidis-Le Crédit par Téléphone 0.54
6 Bernhard Kohl (Aut) T-Mobile Team 0.59
7 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) AG2R Prevoyance 1.04
8 Sergio Miguel Moreira Paulinho (Por) Würth Team 1.15
9 Pietro Caucchioli (Ita) Crédit Agricole 1.19
10 Maxim Iglinskiy (Kaz) Team Milram 1.30

I look at the top 10 and I think that maybe, just maybe...all the tour favorites (minus Levi and Mancebo) are taking it easy? So close to July and maybe you don't want to blow yourself up over something that isn't an objective? And I seem to remember Landis saying earlier in the year after his string of wins that he was "going to take the rest of the lead up to july easy" or something like that.

If suddenly all these great riders and tour favorites from Hincapie to Valverde can't hold on to fine riders such as Bernhard Kohl and Maxim Iglinskiy (who?), then something is wrong.

OR, maybe, MAYBE people should freeeeeeeak out everytime a good rider doesn't race all out everyday. When Lance used to *****-foot his way through the tour run up, did all of you say the same thing?


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

awesometown said:


> OR, maybe, MAYBE people should freeeeeeeak out everytime a good rider doesn't race all out everyday. When Lance used to *****-foot his way through the tour run up, did all of you say the same thing?


Well Valverde clearly appeared to be on his limit, and what other reason could there be for Phonak driving the pace (when they even had a man in the break) unless Landis was looking to do something today? He clearly sat up and just tempo'd in but you've got to figure that was after realizing he didn't have any legs. 

Hincapie might have been riding with himself, and the work Disco did coming to the Ventoux was for Azevedo.


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Well Valverde clearly appeared to be on his limit, and what other reason could there be for Phonak driving the pace (when they even had a man in the break) unless Landis was looking to do something today? He clearly sat up and just tempo'd in but you've got to figure that was after realizing he didn't have any legs.
> 
> Hincapie might have been riding with himself, and the work Disco did coming to the Ventoux was for Azevedo.


Per the Paceline website, the Disco plan was for either Ace, Popo, or Hincapie to go for the win, but not for any of the three to be protected specifically. Ace just had better legs today. 

I think Hincapie expected Valverde to be the man today (which is reasonable--he was the man on the same climb last July and is the Pro Tour leader), and he just sat on his wheel all the way up. When it became apparent that LL's group was not going to be caught, and considering that he already had a teammate gunning for the stage win, he didn't have much choice but to ride tempo with Valverde. He isn't the type of climber who can sprint up to cover big gaps, and he didn't have anyone to help him pace up the climb. 

If this were the TdF, I think he would have expected Ace to drop back and help him try to catch the leaders. But there's no reason to spend that kind of effort in the Dauphine. At 3 min's back, he still has an opportunity of LL cracks on Saturday.


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## Spunout (Aug 12, 2002)

Good ride from Ryder Hesjedal (Phonak), we're pushing him hard all the way from Canada. With Botero and el Bufolo gone, how about a TdF start for this kid.


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*GH was 3 and change down*

finished with Ryder and Valverde. Ace was up the road which may have put him in 'protect mode' or 'save the legs mode'. Floyd is the big suprise, either he can't hold the form for so long or he's saving or rebuilding. Again Azevedo had a great day and again it may be Johann showing he's coming to Le Tour with a handful of threats. I've never really been interested in Discovery's tactics before, but it's kinda like watching Phil Jackson coach.
He no longer has his MJ, we'll see how he adapts.
So given the prepatory nature of this race for many contenders the only finish time I find alarming is Floyds.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

I didn't expect Hincappie, Landis, nor Vino to go for it today. You will see them test on Saturday and they will fight for a stage then. Today was Levi's day to try to sneak in on the GC. I figured he would race for the GC in the Dauphine but the others favorites would not contend.


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## Guest (Jun 8, 2006)

OnTheRivet said:


> Not really, probably didn't feel great today so just sat up. The only way either of these guys would have lost 9+ minutes if they were trying is if a leg fell off.


Eurosport's live cycling coverage was borked I guess. I didn't know if they blew up or what. I'll wait for final results for now on.


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## mrt10x (Aug 10, 2005)

yeah i was going off the eurosport report that Hincapie was down 9 minutes


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Looks like Landis won't be holding anything back today!



That was joke right?


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

*hurt?*



philippec said:


> And Landis and Hincapie down <b>9:30!!</b> on Menchov (minus 5 seconds for Leipheimer) That's got to hurt! Youch!



They weren't even trying.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

mrt10x said:


> So much for Hincapie climbing with the true climbers.. and I am a big George fan.



Do you think he was really going for win? I don't think so. Same for Landis and Popo.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

*reality check*



cyclodawg said:


> Hincapie, Popovich, and Landis were all big disappointments today. I don't buy into the "I care more about preparing for the TdF than winning," either. Phonak clearly was setting Landis up at the foot of the climb. He was going for the win.
> 
> The two Disco riders should have been going for the win, or at least trying to make a statement. Unless they win the Vuelta with Danielson, a win in the Dauphine would have been the team's biggest of the year.



It's called peaking at the right time. How many DL/MV winners have gone on to win the TDF in last 10 years? Not many. For whatever it's worth the two Disco riders and Landis are going for the TDF. It's quite clear that they weren't putting in much an effort and even LL made a comment to this effect on cn.com. Disco won't win the Dauphine, the Tour or the Vuelta. None of the top five guys from today will be on the podium for the the Tour or the Vuelta except for Menchov who could be a good bet for the Vuelta.


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## giovanni sartori (Feb 5, 2004)

rocco said:


> It's called peaking at the right time. How DL/MV winners have gone on to win the TDF in last 10 years? Not many. For whatever it's worth the two Disco riders and Landis are going for the TDF. It's quite clear that they weren't putting in much an effort and even LL made a comment to this effect on cn.com. Disco won't win the Dauphine, the Tour or the Vuelta. None of the top five guys from today will be on the podium for the the Tour or the Vuelta except for Menchov who could be a good bet for the Vuelta.


Armstrong and Indurain have both won it twice and Armstrong's also won the Tour de Suisse as well.


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## cyclodawg (Jul 1, 2003)

rocco said:


> It's called peaking at the right time. How DL/MV winners have gone on to win the TDF in last 10 years? Not many. For whatever it's worth the two Disco riders and Landis are going for the TDF. It's quite clear that they weren't putting in much an effort and even LL made a comment to this effect on cn.com. Disco won't win the Dauphine, the Tour or the Vuelta. None of the top five guys from today will be on the podium for the the Tour or the Vuelta except for Menchov who could be a good bet for the Vuelta.


The difference is that you would never see Armstrong do what Landis did today in a high mountain stage of a race a month before the TdF. He didn't always have the best legs in the DL (though he did on a couple occasions), but he never just phoned in on an important stage when he didn't feel well or when things weren't going his way. Last year was a good example. He suffered early on the big climbing stage of the DL, but then he fought his way back and showed that he was working toward good form, even if he was not quite there. Timing your competitive peak doesn't mean that you avoid working hard in big stages of races working up to the Tour. 

The effort of guys like Valverde and Hincapie today are closer to what you would expect from riders working up toward the Tour. Landis gutting it out and saving a few minutes in order to test himself against some of the best Tour riders would not affect the kind of effort he could put out a month later in the Tour. If he's just going to sit up and take it easy just because his legs don't feel good on a given day, he might as well be doing a local club group ride. The purpose of the DL is to test yourself against Tour riders, even on days when you don't have the good legs (and he will have days like this in a 3-week race, everyone does).


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Well Valverde was hardly impressive today and could barely hold the wheel of his domestiqe setting the pace. One would figure both Landis and Hincapie were looking to do a good ride as they had their teams on the front coming to the climb. Maybe Hincapie was riding controlled certainly Landis was, but you've got to figure that was after he couldn't follow the pace.



I think way too much is being made of these results in context of their implications for the TDF.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

atpjunkie said:


> finished with Ryder and Valverde. Ace was up the road which may have put him in 'protect mode' or 'save the legs mode'. Floyd is the big suprise, either he can't hold the form for so long or he's saving or rebuilding. Again Azevedo had a great day and again it may be Johann showing he's coming to Le Tour with a handful of threats. I've never really been interested in Discovery's tactics before, but it's kinda like watching Phil Jackson coach.
> He no longer has his MJ, we'll see how he adapts.
> So given the prepatory nature of this race for many contenders the only finish time I find alarming is Floyds.



I don't even think Floyd's time is too alarming in regards to the TDF. If you're not interested in winning the DL but you want to make a best effort for the TDF then why bother going for it today? I'd bet FL does better in the TDF than any of the top 5 guys from today.


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## giovanni sartori (Feb 5, 2004)

OnTheRivet said:


> It's one stage today, but if he's in yellow he'll probably decide to defend, have you seen the three following stages, brutal. Defending the jersey on stages like that could pose a problem later on. Armstrong even commented on it in 2003.


"I'm doing this in the best interests of Rooney, the England team and 40million England fans."


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

giovanni sartori said:


> Armstrong and Indurain have both won it twice and Armstrong's also won the Tour de Suisse as well.



exactly... on two occasions in the past 10 years the winner of the DL also won the TDF during the same year.

When Indurain won the DL in '95 he also won the TDF. When he won the DL in '96 he finished 11th in the TDF.


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

cyclodawg said:


> The difference is that you would never see Armstrong do what Landis did today in a high mountain stage of a race a month before the TdF. He didn't always have the best legs in the DL (though he did on a couple occasions), but he never just phoned in on an important stage when he didn't feel well or when things weren't going his way. Last year was a good example. He suffered early on the big climbing stage of the DL, but then he fought his way back and showed that he was working toward good form, even if he was not quite there. Timing your competitive peak doesn't mean that you avoid working hard in big stages of races working up to the Tour.



Landis and Armstrong have different personalities. ...and so do you for that matter.




cyclodawg said:


> The effort of guys like Valverde and Hincapie today are closer to what you would expect from riders working up toward the Tour. Landis gutting it out and saving a few minutes in order to test himself against some of the best Tour riders would not affect the kind of effort he could put out a month later in the Tour. If he's just going to sit up and take it easy just because his legs don't feel good on a given day, he might as well be doing a local club group ride. The purpose of the DL is to test yourself against Tour riders, even on days when you don't have the good legs (and he will have days like this in a 3-week race, everyone does).



Maybe Landis is in trouble but we'll see.


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## OnTheRivet (Sep 3, 2004)

giovanni sartori said:


> "I'm doing this in the best interests of Rooney, the England team and 40million England fans."


Sven is the man. :thumbsup:


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

rocco said:


> That was joke right?


Yeah I'm sure his teammates found it funny after they did all that work to bring the gap to the break down, and then burned themselves out on the lower slopes of Ventoux one by one trying to burn the bunch down, just to have Floyd sit up when he had no legs.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

rocco said:


> I think way too much is being made of these results in context of their implications for the TDF.


I'm not making any implications, riders form can clearly go up or down between the Dauphine and the Tour. I'm just discussing what went on today.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

rocco said:


> why bother going for it today?


I don't know, but by all appearances Phonak was certainly riding as if he was going to have a go today. I don't think there is anyone else in their line-up they would have been thinking of.


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## dagger (Jul 22, 2004)

*I agree*



rocco said:


> Do you think he was really going for win? I don't think so. Same for Landis and Popo.


They weren't out to flex their muscles today. They are saving up and targeting Saturday since they will not have too hard of a day on Sunday and can recover the following days. The guys are not competing for GC will show up and unveil their daggers on a complicated stage.


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## R.Rice (Aug 23, 2004)

cyclodawg said:


> If he's just going to sit up and take it easy just because his legs don't feel good on a given day, he might as well be doing a local club group ride. The purpose of the DL is to test yourself against Tour riders, even on days when you don't have the good legs (and he will have days like this in a 3-week race, everyone does).


He might as well be doing a club ride as much as you might as well be coaching a pro cycling team.

If the purpose of this race is to test yourself against others,here you go;

1 David Zabriskie (USA) Team CSC 52.48.65 (48.854 km/h)
2 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems 0.53.00
3 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner 1.16.50
4 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 1.34.83
5 Bert Grabsch (Ger) Phonak Hearing Systems 1.38.12
6 Marco Pinotti (Ita) Saunier Duval-Prodir 1.54.00

Like Rocco said,some of you are taking the implications of the results of these stages too seriously.Seriously,after seeing what Landis is OBVIOUSLY capable of,do you think he would be dropped by a bunch of nobodys?


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## 55x11 (Apr 24, 2006)

R.Rice said:


> He might as well be doing a club ride as much as you might as well be coaching a pro cycling team.
> 
> If the purpose of this race is to test yourself against others,here you go;
> 
> ...


In defence of cyclodawg - we are all quite a bit slower than best time trialers in the world, obviously. What kind of counter-argument is that?

But to spin today's events as if everything is going according to plan in Landis' camp would not be a correct thing to do. He obviously put quite a ride yesterday and he put his team forward today, so his intention was to test himself. And then he gets dropped, quite early might I say.

Maybe he can peak for the Tour, but considering that Landis would always have a few bad days in the mountains, today's stage is not a reason to make him happy. 

Many people expected Landis to dominate in DL, I would settle for Landis to be second in ITT and top 5 on most mountain stages. To have a complete (and unplanned) melt-down is not something I would expect for a TdF contender three weeks before the race. Lance got a lot of crap for being 4th or 5th in some mountain stages (like Mt. Ventoux ITT a few years back), but he was always consistently good, even when not on his best peak form. 

Sometimes I am surprised by lack of objectivity on these and other boards. People get so hung up on certain personalities, that they hype them up - Zabriskie is going to climb with the top climbers, Hincapie will be the leader of the team, and when that doesn't happen, we tend to act as if that's all part of the grand plan - Landis didn't get beaten today, he "wanted" to ride easy because he is peaking for TdF. Ullrich's plan all along was to be in terrible climbing shape in May and June. Etc. etc.

Meanwhile someone quiet, like Leipheimer, who is largely ignored for whatever reasons by fans, despite placing higher than Landis in past TdFs and Vueltas, has a great performance that gets downplayed. 

It's an interesting social phenomenon. I am sure after early ITT in TdF we will all hear how the race is over for climbers and all Zabriskie, Ullrich or Landis or McGee or whoever has to do is "hang with the leaders" through the climbs, which is about as easy to do as to hammer out 50km/h time trial or 80km/h sprint. Somehow I never hear that "all Basso needs to do is to win a bunch sprint to retain sprinter jersey" or "all Rasmussen has to do is to place in top 3 in ITT to keep himself on the podium". But for Zabriskie or Hincapie to hang to best climbers is apparently all a matter of losing a pound or two.


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## philippec (Jun 16, 2002)

This post gets the good sense award of the day!


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## R.Rice (Aug 23, 2004)

philippec said:


> This post gets the good sense award of the day!


I completely agree with what he said.However,since we are talking about being objective,I just want to point out that having a "bad day" and losing 9 minutes are two different things in my book.That is such a great time loss from someone that I would not have expected losing that much time(and even more time was lost by Vino which suprised me aswell)that I can't help taking it with a grain of salt.

I'm not going to babble on about "burning XXX amount of matches before the TDF".I do think it seems like something other than two TDF GC contenders getting completely spit out the back once the road starts to go up.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Bald dudes get no respect whatsoever. 



55x11 said:


> Meanwhile someone quiet, like Leipheimer, who is largely ignored for whatever reasons by fans, despite placing higher than Landis in past TdFs and Vueltas, has a great performance that gets downplayed.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

R.Rice said:


> That is such a great time loss from someone that I would not have expected losing that much time(and even more time was lost by Vino which suprised me aswell)that I can't help taking it with a grain of salt.


Should anyone be surprised if Landis' and Vinokourov's performances suddenly take a turn for the worse? I'm not saying they will, but if the do it would hardly be surprising.
But there are always confounding factors.


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## Dwayne Barry (Feb 16, 2003)

R.Rice said:


> I just want to point out that having a "bad day" and losing 9 minutes are two different things in my book.QUOTE]
> 
> Well having a bad day and sitting up would result in that. Landis appeared to just be tempo riding with no concern for his time once he realized he had no legs.


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## bas (Jul 30, 2004)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Should anyone be surprised if Landis' and Vinokourov's performances suddenly take a turn for the worse? I'm not saying they will, but if the do it would hardly be surprising.
> But there are always confounding factors.


Factors like no more bags of blood loaded with their red blood cells? :aureola:


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## rocco (Apr 30, 2005)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Well having a bad day and sitting up would result in that. Landis appeared to just be tempo riding with no concern for his time once he realized he had no legs.



This is what I've been driving at all along. He probably has no legs because he's probably ill. ...and that is no inference regarding doping intended. ...seriously. Anyway if FL is sick he should go home and recuperate ASAP.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 2001)

bas said:


> Factors like no more bags of blood loaded with their red blood cells? :aureola:



Holy crap Bas. First all the Zabriskie flaming, now this??

Put away the hate pills. It ain't cool no more.

francois


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## atpjunkie (Mar 23, 2002)

*not that I'm big on flaming*

but Floyd is on Phonak, which has had 'issues' in the last few years, it's latest GC Honch the Buffalo is under suspicion in the latest affair. Vino is directly tied into it as well, so I really don't think the poster is taking that wild of a leap to start that flame.
I'm not joining in, I'm not agreeing, I'm just saying I undertsand from where their suspicion comes.
Remember Basso lost 20 minutes due to illness last Giro. Both could have colds or other bugs that hamper their performance, both could be minor enough that they continue riding in hopes of recovering and getting some good days in still. I'm of the ilk that there is no better training than racing and since the Dauphine usually covers some of the TdF they are getting recon or close to recon in.


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## Asiago (Jan 28, 2004)

*Not on the wagon yet*



mrt10x said:


> So much for Hincapie climbing with the true climbers.. and I am a big George fan.


I'm not on the GH tour contender wagon yet, but something to keep in mind about GH at the DL is the fact that this is his first race since Paris-Roubaix... ...much less first race up a mountain since???


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